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Why The City Might Be Your Best Bet

February 14, 2011 by  

Why The City Might Be Your Best Bet

For the last 15 years or so, the common thought has been that in a disaster situation where there’s a medium to long term breakdown in infrastructure and civil order, the ONLY way to survive is to flee the city, like a dog with its tail between its legs, and hide out in the woods until things get back to normal.  This is really dated thinking that ignores history.

Besides the logistics of whether or not you’ve got a fully stocked rural retreat to flee to, or the fact that there’s a good chance that it will be difficult to travel with gridlock and roadblocks, there are several reasons why cities — or urban areas — make good places to stay after a disaster.  We’re going to cover five of those today and another five in my next article.

I need to start out by saying city people DO have additional risks that isolated rural dwellers don’t have.  Cities are more at risk for terrorist attack, there are more people fighting for fewer resources and there are more possibilities for major accidents that affect hundreds or thousands of people at once.  But it’s ironic to note that survival is the very reason why many cities were originally set up. People wanted to set up a common defense, build a marketplace for their goods and have access to people with specialized skills.

What do I mean by urban? Well, by "urban" I mean a few thousand people to a few million people. Basically, it’s any community that shares water/sewer/electricity distribution. With that in mind, here are the first five of my “Top 10 Lies and Half Truths About Urban Survival” and why it may be better for you than a fully stocked rural retreat (in no particular order).

Lie No. 1. I’ll be a sitting duck in my house! After a disaster, if violence is particularly bad, you can rotate a watch without it being too much of a burden on any one family. This concept has been around for generations. Just to be clear, it doesn’t stop crime, it only changes the location where it happens.
If a crackhead needs to steal a TV to support his habit, it’ll just get them to go a block or two away to break into a house and steal someone else’s stuff. Of course, in a disaster situation, many have scaled this up and have multiple roving people covering an entire neighborhood. In the country, there’s just too much space between houses to make this practical. Why? Because in an urban area, one person can watch several houses at one time.

Lie No. 2. With all those people, everything’s going to run out right away. True, but it’s just the first chapter of the story. In the event of a medium- to long-term breakdown in order after a disaster, many people will abandon cities and others will die of shock, medical reasons or violence, leaving a remnant of people who were prepared and can continue/rebuild the economy. Also, at some point, products like fuel, food and other supplies will start being distributed again. If refiners, farmers and other distributors have the option to deliver to one city or 10 towns, they’ll pick the one city. Their cost to deliver goods to only one location will be less AND they’ll probably be able to sell the goods at a premium because of higher demand. The key here is to have enough supplies on hand to make it through the worst part of a civil breakdown situation until resupply begins.

Half-truth No. 3. Everyone in the city will turn on each other. Partially true. I hear people talk about their organized plans to kill, loot and steal from their neighbors way too often. Just yesterday a friend told me how he overheard a group of otherwise rational people talking about how they have their neighborhood mapped out and the houses prioritized according to which ones they’re going to attack first.

This is no joke, and it’s why I cover operational security so much in the “SurviveInPlace” course. I think these people should and will be "taken care of" quickly if they ever start acting on their sick plans. They go against everything that America stands for, and they disgust me.

There is another side to this story… one which has a lot more historical evidence. Think of barn raisings and the ability of a rural community to band together to get a big project done. Now think about how many more people there are in a city than in a rural area and how much easier it would be for any one person to get a group of people together to get a big project done when there are so many more people to ask. (Stop laughing at the thought of city people helping each other.)

Really, stop laughing. The reality is that people don’t tend to help each other like this in urban areas anymore during normal times. But one of the "good" things about disasters and breakdowns in civil order is that while idiots are running amok, good people band together to help each other. It happened after the San Francisco earthquake, 9/11, numerous floods and tornadoes in the Midwest and even after Hurricane Katrina.

In fact, I have a friend who has moved BACK to New Orleans because of what he saw after Katrina. He happened to have friends who lived in a neighborhood that was galvanized by the event.  They pulled together and became like a small town community in the middle of all the chaos.  He decided that he wanted is family to live in that kind of an environment in the event that another disaster happened.

None of this was in place before Katrina to set this up — it was a neighborhood of strangers living on top of each other, just like most neighborhoods.  It just happened that good people decided to take control of the situation in front of them. They had armed checkpoints to get into their neighborhood, they took care of each other and, when things calmed down, they realized that they had turned their neighborhood of strangers into a family.

This was a great case of a group of proactive people doing what was necessary to create a stable micro environment when surrounded by relative chaos.  These stable micro environments are exactly what are needed after breakdowns in order to restore order, and prepared people are the most likely ones to make them happen.

Lie No. 4. Only jacks-of-all trades will survive. People with specialized skills will have no use and quickly die: Famous self-reliant author Robert Heinlein (Starship Troopers) said that "specialization is for insects," but that’s not entirely true.

A better view on life would be "Jack of all trades, master of ONE." In other words, if you happen to be a surgeon, it’s really not worth your time to change your oil, build a deck, milk a cow or dress and butcher a kill, but you should still know how.  A surgeon would be better off learning how to do primitive and handyman skills and then paying someone else to do those he didn’t enjoy so that he had more time to do his specialty — surgery.  That way, he can get the most value for his time, contribute the most to society, but still have the primitive and handyman skills to fall back on in an emergency.

No matter what you do, there are going to be tasks that you’re not efficient at. I recently read that the reason why people are so busy in survival situations is because they’re spending all of their time doing things they’re not efficient at, so everything takes two to three times longer to do than it should. In a city, you don’t HAVE to do everything… even if you know how to do it all. There is a ready supply of skilled friends, acquaintances and experts for hire who can do specialized tasks — that you can’t efficiently do — much quicker than you can.

What I do and what I suggest others do is to spend time learning and practicing primitive skills and handyman skills so that you know how to do a wide variety of things if you need to.  But, spend the majority of your time getting better at one or two specialties.

There are two reasons for this.  First, specializing will make you more valuable to other people.  Second, it will be a better use of your time.

As an example, let’s say that you don’t like baking and you’re not particularly good at it, but you want to give your wife a cake for her birthday.  You could go to the store and pay $20 for an INCREDIBLE cake, or you could buy all the ingredients for $5 and make it yourself.

By the time you figure in the TIME to go shopping, find the right pans, ingredients and measuring spoons, bake the cake and clean up the mess, if you’re anything like me, you’re looking at two to three hours.  So, you traded two to three hours for $15 in savings and essentially made $5-$7.50 per hour.  That’s not a very good use of time.

Heck, I could have spent half an hour going door to door until I found someone who needed their lawn mowed for $20, mowed it, bought a cake from the store, and still had an hour or two to enjoy!  (Remember… I made the assumption that you don’t like baking and that you’re not good at it.  If you love baking and are good at it, then there is surely some other task that you could substitute that would be a better fit for you.)

The other benefit of specialization in urban areas is that it allows for highly skilled people like the surgeon that I mentioned. In a rural area, the surgeon may only get a chance to practice his skill a few times a month. In an urban area, he’ll have the opportunity to hone his skills every day and all of his patients will benefit from his efficiency and expertise.  And frankly, if I have critical or life-saving work that needs to be done, I want a specialist around rather than a jack of all trades.

Half-truth No. 5. Sickness will spread like wildfire in cities after a disaster. True, and in the animal kingdom, this is one of the ways that overcrowding is taken care of.

But history shows us that much of the reasons why disease spreads so quickly in urban areas is not only due to population density, but also due to a lack of sun exposure as a result of spending all day indoors. And poor hygiene also factors in. This is something you have control over. Throughout history, the benefits of efficient distribution and a common defense have outweighed the increased dangers of disease spread.

In fact, everything spreads easier in a city, and A HUGE advantage that urban areas have over rural areas is how much more efficient product and information distribution is. A kid on a bike can deliver a few hundred newspapers quickly in a city. Mail can be delivered on foot. Bike messengers can deliver packages and messages quickly. Food and produce can be delivered QUICKLY by hand, foot, vehicle, car, or animal to hundreds of customers without adding much cost to the final buyer.

One of the big problems that we have, both in stable and unstable times, is urban sprawl. By urban sprawl, I’m specifically talking about subdivisions of 1,000 to 3,000 houses with absolutely no grocery, retail or convenience stores except at the entrance from the main road. These are very inefficient setups because they require people to drive for small things like fresh produce, a snack, a missing ingredient for a favorite recipe or a newspaper.

I have a very strong feeling that in a civil breakdown situation, as others abandon their homes in search of greener pastures, many houses in subdivisions like these will turn into markets… regardless of zoning. In other words, if you’ve got a main street through a subdivision that’s a couple miles long, I can see five to 10 of them being changed into convenience stores and, when the season is right, farmer’s markets.

Why do I say this?  Because good people always have and always will figure out a way to improvise, adapt, and overcome… and this is a natural solution to a problem that we see in subdivisions in every city in America.

In my next article, I’m going to cover the next five reasons why cities are better than rural areas, about how Chicago is breaking down, and I’ll tell you the reason why gangs of "bad people" won’t be a long-term problem in most cities after civil breakdown.

–David Morris

Dr. David Eifrig Jr.

is the editor of two of Stansberry's best advisory services. One of his advisories, Retirement Millionaire, is a monthly letter showing readers how to live a millionaire lifestyle on less than you'd imagine possible. He travels around the U.S. looking for bargains, deals and great investment ideas. Already his average reader has saved $2,793 since 2008 (documented in each Retirement Millionaire issue). He also writes Retirement Trader, a bi-monthly advisory that explains simple techniques to make large, but very safe, gains in the stock and bond markets. This is a pure finance play and the reason Porter Stansberry loves having "Doc" on the team. Doc holds an MBA from Kellogg and has worked in arbitrage and trading groups with major Wall Street investment banks (Goldman Sachs). In 1995, he retired from the "Street," went to UNC-Chapel Hill for medical school and became an ophthalmologist. Now, in his latest "retirement," he joined Stansberry & Associates full-time to share with readers his experiences and ideas.

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  • s c

    Regardless of how you define a disaster (natural, man-made, etc.), it makes sense to be as independent as possible. The federal government probably won’t be able to ‘rush’ to help any two major cities at the same time. New Orleans is a prime example of why FEMA can’t be trusted to help when problems arise.
    Anyone who has his or her fair share of common sense will be better off than his or her neighbors.
    Among other things, common sense will be in short supply, and as most rational adults already know,
    Uncle Scam will run out that special commodity in a hurry.

    • http://59581@tds.net Bill Murphy

      If you think you are going to the store rember they only have a 72 hour supply of food under normal conditions,Truckers are not going to be able to get fuel to haul food., no banks are going to be open for you to get to your money, people will go crazy and take from each other. You will not be secure in a city. The goverment will not be able to help you. Gangs will control the streets and if the goverment has there way the good people will not have gun’s to protect what they do have. However the gangs will have their weapons because they will not give up there’s.Oboma’s plan is to make Amrica a 3rd world country with all the riots and killings. I will not live in a city becaus I can make it here in the hills were I live. Plenty of wild game and fire wood. Wish you all the best.

      • http://aol Miz

        We also live rural. Have purchased some extras we may or may not need, i.e. manual hand pump for the well, dried beans, rice, canned meat, flavorings, fuel for lanterns, vitamins (yes, checked the code dates) stuff like that. Game is plentiful in the area plus tons of squirrels for stew. Plant a garden every spring, can the extra, heat with a pellet stove, but also have a wood stove AND long johns. Generator to run the ham radio if we no longer have electricity. Yes, I’d miss having electricity – we figure we can survive without it if necessary. Worry & Fret? Nope. God is in charge.

        • Jeff

          I like your attitude and agree that God is in charge. Besides for some of us there is a comma after death.

  • Macawma

    Well, Mr. Morris, I’m glad you wrote this so that maybe people in urban areas will stay where they are and not come out to try to infiltrate those of us in the boonies. They will have a tough time getting up to ranch headquarters, however I am realistic enough to know we can’t patrol all 3500+ acres and I fear for our cattle. When the SHTF all the kids and grandkids will no doubt try to get here, so we will have additional eyes and our own small protection force, however, they will also be taxing on the food supply. Ah well, that’s why we have been working at our food pantry, and at least we have livestock, game, and abundant fish. I just pray things are not so bad they can’t get here.

    • EddieW

      I certainly agreee on a food supply, if one has a cool place to store them, freeze dried and Dehydrated foods are a must and a years supply for each individual would be ideal…though most of us cannot afford that, nor have a cool storage area…How about the forgotten thing….Water?? It’s NP for thfose who can afford the berkly water purifier, which I can’t and long term storage of enough water to last even a week..considering a gallon per day per person is about necessary…Filtration of some sort will be a must!!! Who has room for many cases of bottled water, which is very suspect, in having drugs and everything else in it..NO purity regulations for it!!!

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      The point that urban dwellers need to realize is that, after a disaster, getting “out of Dodge” isn’t always the perfect answer.

      In many cases, Surviving In Place gives people a MUCH better chance of surviving than trying to bug out in stop and go traffic.

  • BOB REIN

    MY WIFE AND I ARE NOT “DOOMSDAY” SURVIVALISTS BUT HAVE THE COMMON SENSE THAT HARD TIMES ARE AHEAD. PRUDENT PREPARATION SUCH AS PROPER FOOD STORAGE AND ITS ROTATION IS NOT ONLY A PRUDENT CONCEPT FOR BASIC SURVIVAL BUT MAKES GOOD ECONOMIC SENSE ALSO . EXAMPLE…WE ALL KNOW FOOD PRICES ARE RISING VERY RAPIDLY AT A RATE OF 5 TO 10 PERCENT…EVEN IF A CATASTROPHIC EVENT DOES NOT OCCUR, ANY FOOD WITH A SUBSTANTIAL SHELF LIFE IS WORTH 5 TO 10 PERCENT MORE THAN AT THE TIME OF ITS ORIGINAL PURCHASE… MOST CANNED GOODS HAVE AT LEAST A TWO YEAR SHELF LIFE, (OTHERS FOODS 5 TO 20 YEARS IF STORED PROPERLY) .. WITH PROPER ROTATION, ONE CAN CONSUME ON ONE END AND RESTOCK ON THE OTHER. THUS ACHIEVING … A 5 TO 10 PERCENT RETURN ON THEIR INVESTMENT!!!! UNLIKE THE STOCK MARKET….FOOD PRIVES ARE NOT GOING DOWN!!!!…HERE IS MY FINAL AND MOST IMPORTANT POINT…WHEN ONE IS PREPARED IT IS MUCH EASIER TO REMAIN A GOOD PERSON…IT KEEPS HAVING YOU TO RESORT TO THE”MOB MENTALITY” TO SURVIVE!!

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      Right on, Bob. One of the ways that I talk about preparedness is to look at it as “asset diversification.” Another angle that I take is to suggest that people think about their emergency or rainy day funds.

      If that rainy day comes, some of that money will go towards food. Why not buy the food RIGHT NOW? Like you said, with food inflation at 10%, the right food will probably go up in value much faster than a savings account.

  • TP

    You are on spott sc. Fema is the only subsidiary of the US Gov that has more clout than the military. Read the new fictional book “Lights Out” that deals with a large scale emp event and see how involved Fema can possibly get in the lives of the public. I would rather be in a rural neighborhood like I am of about 68 houses and band my community together than in the city where the looting and burning will take place.

    • JR

      Lights out is not “a new publication”. Its a few years old. It is very biased, very narrow minded, and has many assumptions that will never really happen in a breakdown of our civilization. It has many fallacies. If you use this fiction (and a quite amateurish and badly written at that) publication as a guide for your survival, you will not make it.

  • ed

    Interesting. But I will still stay rural with my wife, 7 children and their spouses and take my chances with with our small farm. We can grow our own food. I have the means to defend and keep what we have. I also have total faith and trust in family that I don’t have with others.
    The cities aren’t called concrete jungles for nothing. The author is also assumming a restoration of services soon enough for use by survivors. What is a city dweller going to trade for my food? They don’t have anything I want or need.

    • JR

      Simple, a rusty nail in your foot or hands, and infection, and you will wish you had one of the tetanus vials or antibiotics that city people have a good chance to get access too.
      Experts believe that more people will die as a result of secondary effects then of the actual crisis should our society disintegrate.
      Secondary effects are but not limited to:

      Rioting, crime
      Extended food, water shortages
      Heating or cooling shortage
      Medical needs such as lack of care for existing needs and lack of available care for future needs.

      A simple rusty nail, a cut, an open wound of any type, a broken leg can kill you as effective as a bullet. And the more rural you are the more chances for secondary effects you will get.
      As much as City dwellers will have to survive the criminal element….and they will after a while, it will cost dearly in lives but the fittest will survive, they do have protection in numbers and skills that rural people don’t have. Another thing that experts also realize, many rural people will turn at each other. There will be those that will run out of food, and humans are humans..they will turn on each other.

      • libertytrain

        Your first sentence actually says a lot to me. I would know what to do quicker than any city person I’ve ever talked about this stuff in regards to say a nail in my foot – and it’s about cleaning the wound, immediately. Don’t need water, just some of those supplies that we would know to squirrel away and what to do with them.

      • libertytrain

        I also don’t think you’ll find that much help in the city unless you are extremely lucky. But the average guy won’t be that fortunate — Probably in any place he finds himself, rural or urban.

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      Hey Ed…that’s awesome that you are where you want to be and have a plan in place to survive disasters right where you are. That’s what I help city dwellers develop for themselves.

      The point is to make the plans necessary to be able to Survive In Place…wherever that place may be. If you spend 80% of your time in the middle of nowhere, it might be smart to have a plan to survive there long term if a disaster happened. If you spend 80% of your time in urban areas, it might be smart to have a plan to survive there long term if a disaster happened.

  • Joyce from Loris

    I appreciate the article and advice, but as for me and mine, we will stay on our 200 acre farm and take our chances here. We have so much more available to us than city dwellers do. We have a pond, a lake with running water, plenty of trees and farm land for growing our vegetables and plenty of room for livestock. Short of needing a surgeon, we do have an EMT person about 1 and 1/2 miles away. At least we will not be drinking the poison in city water, and having roving gangs try to take what we have. Yes, the gangs can come to our “section of the woods”, but we will see them coming before they see us. We are prepared for that as well. God Bless us all, we are going to need it!

    • DOGS FIGHT

      The best answer, I think, is to join a militia. you would certainly be with like minded people, have common defense, and be with people who all saw what what was comming long ago. Contrary to media hype about militias being a bunch of crazy red necks, I think militias, like survivliasts, have a better head on their shoulders than anyone else. they understand history and how tyrants ALWAYS manage to rise to the top and ruin civilizations through their lust of power.

      • DOGS FIGHT

        as a rule of thumb, whatever group of people are demonized by politicans and the media, those are the people you want to be with and listen to.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Hey Dogs:

          I have used the media and liberal politicians as reverse barometers for over 30 years. They say something in our country is bad, one can rest assured it it good and good means bad.

          I do not live way out in the boonies, but do live in a somewhat rual community where we mind our business, but if someone needs help we will help.

          I do not “buy” Mr. Morris’ take on city dwellers. Also, he failed to mention the fact that many big cities have banned guns – for law abiding citizens that is. So, when the gang-bangers come storming around there is nothing to shoot back with.

          An ounce of lead is worth a pound of 911.

          • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

            Hey Henry,

            Would you mind replying with a list of the “many” cities in the US that have banned guns?

      • 45caliber

        I would rather depend upon a redneck to defend me than a liberal. At least you can depend upon the redneck to do his best…

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          45:

          That put me in mind of a joke I heard in the 90s.

          Dick-for-grains and Algore were lost in the woods together and they hear a bear approaching. Algore asks Slick Willie how are we going to outrun that bear? Willie says: “I don’t need to outrun the bear. I only need to outrun you”.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            That’s dick-for-brains. Sheesh, this blasted keyboard did it again…

          • Russ Reagan

            I live in rural America with people who have abilities that will get us thru the toughest part. We would be fools to believe that we will not become prey to the folks around us. However and hopefully. my neighbors and I will have come upon a security detail (for a lack of a better word) that will keep our families and friends safe. It would be ignorant to beleive that there would not be infighting to be the topdog and the “DECIDER” of plans. That will be weeded out. But remember the words of a songman back in the 80′s ” A countryboy shall survive”. If you were rooting around my part of the woods with your auto’s and even flamethrowers, grenades and snipers, don’t get caught in our crossfire. I know 3 gentlemen in a mile radius that can take an accurate headshot at a 1000 yards. The rest of us will bury you. With honors, as you are Americans.

        • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

          Hey 45caliber, I’ve actually got a section of the SurviveInPlace.com course devoted to rednecks and bubbas and how vital they have been and will be after disasters. Being one myself, I may be a tiny bit prejudiced as to our importance, but not by much.

    • Cawmun Cents

      Just remember that masses can organize into armies in short notice.You may withstand roving gangs but can be overun by an army.

      • Gordon in Texas

        Most masses in a panic situation cannot organize themselves, let alone an army. The only army we may have to deal with will be the US Army; and they’ll be busy in the urban areas, maintaining “order.” Roving gangs will prey upon the weak, and those in the rural areas are not in this classification. Strong families, strong wills, and strong convictions. I don’t think the army wants to deal with that.

      • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

        This line of thinking always amazes me…the belief that hoards of criminals will spontaneously develop an orderly hierarchy and efficiently loot and kill people willing to stand up for themselves. In addition, they’ll never get drunk or be coming down from their drug induced highs…they’ll just systematically and methodically wipe out towns and cities.

        Organizing criminals is a lot like herding cats in an open fields…it’s not a quick or efficient process. We can see that in US gangs, Mexican gangs, conquering armies throughout history, and in tyrannical governments.

        In addition, if history is a guide, a lot of the gang/mob violence after a disaster will be infighting within and between gangs. The violence that innocent people need to be the most concerned about is an uptick in the number of crimes of opportunity by individuals and groups of 2-3 people.

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

      Joyce:

      I am glad for you and your family. There is no “perfect” situation, but yours sounds real close.

      When I was a kid my grandma told me that “God takes care of those who take care of themselves.” At the time I did not fully comprehend that, but with age comes…….

      • Russ Reagan

        Grandma had her paws in a bowl of real truth. Don’t we wish we would have listened closely and made provisions for the worst years ago. Well, no use crying over spilled milk. It is never to late to prepare until the day approaches. Start now, even if it comes next week, you are a week ahead. Best russ Reagan

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      Joyce, that’s AWESOME! The whole point is to have a plan to survive right where you currently are…not to believe that there’s some magic bullet that will make surviving a disaster a cake walk. Good job.

  • Al Sieber

    Good article, but I’ll stay in the mountains where I live and work, there’s plenty of wild game and I grow my own food. cities are too confining, and people too unpredictable. I have people that live and work with me that know how to hunt and survive, we’ll take our chances out here. I would rather take my chances with real rattlesnakes than 2 legged ones.

    • Joyce from Loris

      I’m with you Al! Rattlesnakes are more predictable than some humans.

      • Al Sieber

        Right Joyce, they almost always go the other way even when provoked.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        And you can legally shoot, and eat (gag), rattle snakes. At least for now….

        • JimH

          Henry, Tastes like chicken. Imagine, the taste of chicken, with the convenience of rattlesnake.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Thanks JimH. I will probably never eat chicken again….

        • Al Sieber

          Old Henry, I feel the same about eating them, they smell bad enough when you skin them. I don’t kill them unless they’re near my house, or where I’m working, they have a purpose too, except the one that crawled up on the muffler of my truck last summer.

    • Dan az

      Hey Al
      When the lights go off and there is no communication no frigs no water no air conditioning no heat no fuel,then what have you besides a concentration camp that will thin them selves down for them to control the rest?I feel the same way as you,I can take care of my family here in the woods allot better then in the city and besides when they are guarding the city there backs are towards us.

      • Al Sieber

        That’s right Dan good point and, I’m not that far from you.

      • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

        Dan, that’s great that you live in and are planning to ride out disasters in a rural area. For people who spend 80% of their time in cities, they MUST have a plan to survive where they spend the most time.

        • Dan az

          Hey David
          You are right when it goes down, people will be where they are at the time and have to survive the moment that it happens.I feel that if the masses stay together instead of running off to unknowns then they will have a better chance of survival.The people that have lived in the rural areas will already have things in place like the comforts that you have in the cities.So for us its just another day.What people forget is, with out power there is no gas for their cars and if they didn’t keep the tank full they will be limited to where they can go.So for those who suggest that the city dwellers will just out run us I say I don’t think so.Besides most people in the cities think we are just crazy vets that live on compounds and hey maybe they are right.The fact is that we live here to protect you from us all we ask is to be left alone is that so hard to understand.When people say your guns are not going to stop the military assault,Then I must remind you that we where the military and still are,we took an oath and that hasn’t changed.You would be surprised at what a bunch of vets are capable of.So it is best for all city dwellers to think before they jump because trading one for the other might not be to your liking.

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

      Al:

      Good for you. It is folks like you, your neighbors and the folks appearing here that, if this country is to survive, will make it happen.

      • Al Sieber

        Thank’s Henry, I’m sure you will too, and a lot of other people here also.

  • DOGS FIGHT

    This article ignores the fact that cities are also inviting targets for FEMA…. After all, as an oathkeeper, one of the orders I refuse to follow is an order to set up blockaides to turn cities into giant concentration camps. Cities are a double edged sword. I see the benefits as laid out in this article, but having lots of people together can also be bad in some respects. I think the correct answer is to be in a rural area inititally if possible until the initital chaos dies down, then rejoin the city once you are forced to. Cities surely offer better long term survival prospects once the crazies are driven out / killed. However inititally, if I was in a city I would stay in doors and hope someone didnt choose my home… Of course there is something to be said about community defense as in the Rodney King riots. I believe certain ethnic groups banned together and placed snipers on the building tops which kept the rioters out of their neighborhood…

    • BIG DADDY WRENCH

      DOGS FIGHT BECAUSE DOGS ARE DOGS THIS IS NO DISRESPECT TO YOU! PEOPLE AND REPRESSIVE GOVERNMENT ARE ( PACK MENTALITY ) WHAT THEY ARE!

      THE REASON I E MAILED YOU IS THAT I HAVE SEEN THE OATH KEEPERS WEB SITE AND EVEN THOUGH I MAY NOT BE X MILITARY OR CIVIL SERVANT THE CONCEPT OF A FREE AMERICA IS AND WILL ONLY BE IF TRUE AMERICAN’S BAND TOGETHER AND STAND FOR THAT WHICH IS RIGHT! LAYING DOWN IS FOR COWARDS AND WOULD RATHER HAVE DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR! I AM IN NO HURRY TO DIE BUT LIVING UNDER EVIL IS NOT AN OPTION EITHER!

      MAY YAHWEH BE A BLESSING TO AMERICA BECAUSE AMERICA IS A BLESSING TO GOD! I BELIEVE IF YOU CAN READ THANK THANK A TEACHER, IF IT IS IN ENGLISH THANK A SOLDIER AND IF YOUR ALIVE THANK GOD!

      STEVE

      ALL IT TAKES FOR THE TRIUMPH EVIL IS THAT GOOD MEN DO NOTHING!

      • JoAnn

        I am a 70 yr. old great-grandmother. What you wrote is very true and I love it. I am printing it and will show it to all my family.
        God Bless

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      To “Dogs Fight”,

      You said that the “correct” answer is to start out in a rural area. That assumes that you get to pick the timing of the disaster. The simple fact is that disasters don’t ask you to confirm that you’re ready before they happen.

      Since most people live in urban areas, most people will be in urban areas when a disaster happens. As a result, they need to have a primary or alternate plan to survive right where they are if they can’t relocate to a rural area.

  • DOGS FIGHT

    In a lot of ways, I think ultiamtely, whether we descend into tyranny or have a chance at freedom depends on our police and military. If the military and police overall, side with tyranny, all the preperation in the world doesn’t matter when a depleted uranium round slams into your house from a tank or you get shelled from far, far away by artillerly. Hopefully, the military and police side with the people at least to some extent as we saw in Egypt.

    • Elaine Bridge

      Don’t you think the police and military positions will vary around the country? In rural Montana and Wyoming I know the police will stick with the people, their friends. They will stick with their STATE as that is where they connect. The feds are not loved out here and certainly not trusted. As for the military, again, the cities are at risk the most. I cannot see tanks roaming the backroads of MT or WY looking for ranch houses to blow up. Other states like Idaho and Texas are a lot like MT and WY and more are joining the ranks every day. I think what will keep us free in the end is the same thing that kept Japan from attacking our mainland during the 2nd WW. Americans are armed and prepared to defend themselves againt any threat.. foreign or domestic. Yes, times have changed and real threats are domestic. If they say…” We are from the government and we are here to help”, I say draw down on them and tell them to scoot! The government is not our friend anymore. I hope and pray that it can be again. But it will have to be US in the government and not the talking heads we have in there for the most part now. Let’s get some good choices on the ballot and take our country back.

      • DOGS FIGHT

        100% agree with this.

      • 45caliber

        You are right.

      • Cawmun Cents

        Desparate times breed desparate situations.Large groups and or armies from the big cities may form,and then what good will it do to try and defend your position?
        Just be sure and leave yourself an out and dont depend on being able to stay where you are.Read Sun Tzu and recognize your situational motivations.Unless you are affiliated with the military or a base,you may be in for a tough situation.Of course you may be fortunate and never have to deal with it.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        Elaine:

        I think that MT and WY have elected democraps to the House and Senate and probably the state legislature / Statehouse. How does that happen? Sounds to me like you have been infiltrated.

        The government is never your friend. The wise approach is to always view them as the enemy.

        I like that term “draw down on them”. Sometimes I think I was born in the wrong time and in the wrong place, but God is never wrong, so here I am.

        My baby sister went from the mid-west to CO for college in the 70s and made a good freind of a CO girl going to the same school. Sis told me her friend offered her a ride somewhere and she had a PICK UP TRUCK! In the back window was a GUN RACK WITH A RIFLE mounted on it!

        I went YES! She shook her head and rolled her eyes. Even back then she knew her big brudder was a red-neck.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        Elaine:

        Also, do not forget that GW Bush voided our constitution in 2005 when he signed a treaty with Canada and the Mexes that allows them to send troops into OUR country to quell domestic “disturbances”.

        I have no doubt their armies will have no problem “dealing” with unrully Americans. My map shows MT and WY close to Canada and TX xlose to the Mexes. Hell, the Mexes have already invaded our country and are taking over!

      • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

        Absolutely. Before our last election, a survey of Sheriffs around the country showed that they were split roughly 50/50 on whether individuals had the right to be able to defend themselves with a firearm.

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

      Let’s Egypt Obama!

      • JR

        Something I have seen on Yahoo forum yesterday and thought significant enough to save. I did some research into this and it scared me. If you look at the range of those things it is scary, all your willingness to defend your farm, to riot like Egypt, or otherwise to resist will disappear in a hurry if you and your friends are hit with one of those. The mobile units have a range of close to 1 mile….1 mile darn it. They will point it at your home and your resistance will go to hell in a hurry.
        +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

        For all of you, that believe that protests and riots as in Egypt are the answer, may I introduce to you ADS….google it. And you will see, that the masses in the US have no chance.

        Egypt was/is a 3rd world country…the government there did not have adequate none lethal crowd and riot control systems in place.

        Wanna bet, the US government will NOT be cough pants down.

        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

        Google ADS and be afraid, be very afraid. Our government knows that the people will defend them self and has found a way to make you wish you had not thought to oppose them.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          JR:
          I Googled ADS. It came up as something to do with NASA, astronomy and physics.
          I looked thru it, but did not see anything that appeared to be what you were alluding to.
          What did I miss?

          • Hidden_lion

            I think he was referring to the Area Denial microwave weapon….It makes you feel like you are on fire as long as you are in the targeted space. Once you leave the area you feel fine. It can be mounted on Humvees and the like.

  • Elaine Bridge

    I’ll stick with the rural areas, myself. I was a girl living in Chicago when late night TV host, Johnny Carson, made a flipant remark about a TOILET PAPER SHORTAGE. You should have seen the speed at which the grocery stores ALL cleared out of toilet paper, then tissues and finally paper towels. People literally FOUGHT over the packages to near violence in places. It was all a joke in the end, but we learned something about human nature, at least in cities. Then came the big SNOW storm of I think 67 and again not much was moving and the shelves got really bare fast. I got sick that winter and had to be taken to the hospital by snow mobile..on the north side of Chicago. Sadly I do not remember neighbors sharing anything. People just hunkered down and made do and that will work for short term. Sadly most of the city folk I knew never had more than a weeks supply of food on hand and everyone joked about my full pantry and 27 Cu. ft. freezer full of food. Had it gotten bad enough I could have fed a lot of my neighbors and little did they know I could have also defended that food supply against looters with my well practiced shooting skills at the range. Like my country friends where I live…I will share anything I have to meet your need if you ask… just don’t try to steal it from me and take it all for yourself. No, cities have a way of “stealing our best human attributes”. Give me the country every time. I do like the idea of you telling everyone all the good parts of being in a city at disaster time. I hope they all LISTEN and do what you say. We will be all the better off in our country locations for it.

    • 45caliber

      I’m the same way. Most country people tend to keep a well-stocked larder while city people depend upon the local stores. And, of course, most country people also tend to have a well stocked arsenal as well.

    • Cawmun Cents

      Sound advice.

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

      Elaine:

      I fully remember that January in 1967! I was a new teenage driver and had a ball trying to drive around and listening to WLS / WCFL (depending on which one “Uncle Lrr the Super Jock” was working) from afar!

      There must have been something moving as I remember reports in September of 1967 on the soaring birthrate! HA!

      • http://www.wyomingclassics.com Elaine Bridge

        Old Henry,
        Sounds like we might have been in the windy at the same time. But, I can tell you that was NOT a place to be in a disaster. Folks don’t often realize that the more a segment of society thinks they have ENTITLEMENTS the more angry and upset they get when they don’t get their ENTITLEMENTS. THose of us who are used to providing our own way and also doing without and making do can manage just fine. This includes way more than the obviously overblown and misused welfare system. It includes “entitled” rich kids and in this generation a lot of “entitled not rich kids”. Rural kids are learning more about WORK and not just hold out their hands and asking for stuff to magically appear in them. It’s a lot about family breakdown and social responsiblity (which is right and good) and the way it has run amuck during our generation.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Elainde:
          I was a far distance from Chi-town, but close enough to still catch the Big 89 and CFL.
          Yes, the entitlement mentalliyt has become very pervasive, and that was / is EXACTLY the plan from the start.

  • Chris

    Good article, but your forgetting one of the possible scenarios. Nukes dropped on US cities. If you had a hardened enough basement like in the book ‘The Secure Home’ you’d be ok anyway, but its very expensive. If your at ground zero, I believe you need an underground get away for over 200 PSI. That’s some really thick steel doors, and some very heavy duty blast valves for your air supply.

    Another point is, if a nuke does occur, you may not have any warning time near ground zero. If your out in the country, you’ve got maybe a couple hours to get into your shelter before the fallout starts dropping around you after then nuke.

    Just some ideas-I could be wrong.

    • DOGS FIGHT

      very true, although in the event of atomic war, I think I would rather be instantly vaporized….

  • Disabled Veteran Brian

    If you have urban property, it makes sense to stay put, put your trust in family and neighbors you have known for years, and continue farming. As for the guy that says he wants nothing I have, how long can he farm without gas? It takes forty gallons per acre, this old farm boy says, to bring a crop in….multiply that times 200 acres, sir…

    For those of us stuck in cities, listen to the message: stay put, stay down, stay stocked. Trust in YOUR NEIGHBORS, and make friends cautiously…I too am well prepared, as well versed in war and murder as I was in killing hogs and cows on the farm….rather not do either, IF I have a choice…pray for Peace and trust in God, but be prepared, in all manner available. Simple prayer is not enough. Start a garden now, improve it every year, and NEVER trust in the government to save you, as it will not happen. Our current president thinks we are all gun nuts, I am, and that we are all useless peons, I ain’t. God Bless our farmers, and our troops.

    • ed

      As for the guy that says he wants nothing I have, how long can he farm without gas? It takes forty gallons per acre, this old farm boy says, to bring a crop in….multiply that times 200 acres, sir…

      Horses. I’m not planning on farming 200 acres. I still don’t need what you have. Where are you getting the gas? You have a refinery? A still? If so, then you have something to trade. But what are you going to use for fuel for the still? Or organics for the mash? Non-hybrid seed, ammo, tools and labor is the only thing that would be of interest.

      • Cawmun Cents

        Agreed Ed…but even horses break down and get injured…as well as being suseptible to rustling.If you have something to pretty to ignore,wont you become an even bigger target?

        • ed

          That’s why I stocked up on guns and ammo. A lot of ammo. It can be used or bartered. If it gets that bad, at least I won’t have to worry about fertilizer.

      • http://www.wyomingclassics.com Elaine Bridge

        I hear you. An acre will feed a LOT of people and you can do that by hand if you do it like your LIFE depended on it. A non hybrid, organic, open pollinating seed stock is the start. Yes, plant and improve every year. Doing 200 acres is out of the question unless you got your entire church body together and did it. If you did you could feed a LOT of people… People who would be willing to PROTECT that garden as they knew they had an investment in it too. Years ago when I lived in Chicago I had some very wonderful apple trees. The neighbor kids used to scare me to death as they stole apples which I was at work. I feared they would fall on the concrete patio and kill themselves or worse. One weekend when I was home and could catch them I lined them up and told them this. ” These are my apples BUT I want to share them with you. I brought out a basket of them and told them they could eat all they wanted right now. Boy they stuffed themselves. THen I told them they could pack home as many as they could stuff and carry in hands and pockets. Then I told them they were in charge of PROTECTING these apples and keeping everyone safe. I told them to come over ANY time they saw me in the yard and ANYTIIME they heard me ring my bell. THen we would pick apples together and everyone would get some.I also told them they would have to help clean up leaves after the tree went to winter and also downed and garbage apples so we would be ready for next year. Also, they could take apples to anyone they knew as long as they promised not to waste any of OUR apples. Well, it worked like a charm. One day a kid came and told me that he shagged a kid out of hte tree that afternoon while I was at work and told him to come back when the bell rang.I had NO MORE PROBLEMS with my apple tree being a possible injury sight, no more wasting theft as they used to drop and leave more than they made away with, and a bunch of kids who changed their entire attitudes and behavior. Just a thought as to how you can keep a garden out in the open in bad times and do a lot of good with it.

  • Larry

    I have to say this gives me thought. Why would I stay where I have invested time and money? (and a fair amount of sweat and blood) when I could go to the city?
    I could rely on others to make sure my water/food/sewage/shelter/protection.etc are taken care of. Instead I am fighting to KEEP my gravity based septic. It has not used one watt of power in 50 yrs. But the government demands it must be “upgraded” :(
    I truely hope the city folks stay in the big cities. Maybe they can put a fence around them. I am fair distance away but not far enough. Hopefully it will never happen. It just looks/feels too likely something will.
    Please keep encouraging folks to stay in major cities. I thank you.

    • kate8

      Larry – Maybe someone here knows something about this. I read about someone locally (CA) who challenged the requirement to get a building permit to work on his home, and won. Apparently, if you know what you are talking about, there is NO LAW requiring you do this. If you believe that you have to, you do. But if you know your rights as a sovereign, you don’t.

      I’m not well versed enough to say any more, but your septic upgrade seems like the same kind of situation. You can check out this website:

      http://teamlaw.org/

      • Dan az

        Kate
        Many court decisions where won by home owners and contractors that challenged the building departments on the basis of constitution.I have never had to take as far I only had to express I would and they back down.Infact the courts in southern cal. refused to hear any other cases brought to them by the city and county and threaten them with contempt of court.I have been a contractor for a better part of forty years and they pretty much left me alone.They where developed for the reason of showddy workmanship and fly by nights but now have overstep there authority like any guvment job.Build it to code and you wont have a problem,also video it before you cover it that way you wont have to uncover it if asked.

        • 45caliber

          The main thing today about building inspections is that they want to know where and when you are building so they can increase your tax base based on it. That’s the main reason we are supposed to get building permits. It’s all about money now.

          Larry, you must be in some coastal area or your inspector is a jerk. All coastal areas are supposed to have an aerobatic system which requires an agitator, a small air compressor to add air to the sludge, and a pump to pump it to sprinklers. It is where I am. It also requires that you have a MINIMUM 1 acre site. That is good since it means that you have to have enough room for your system. The bad problem is that it requires you to have a License to run it and have it inspected 3 times a year. The ground where I am simply won’t work with a standard septic system since it is clay. It won’t allow the septic system to drain enough unless you have several acres of drain lines. Even then, when the ground is saturated (which happens several times a year for several weeks at a time) it will overflow. Your ground should be okay if you have never had a problem. I’m surprised they are trying to make you change it.

  • jim

    NOW we have to IMPEACH the Idiot who will cause the disaster and when it happens, has already taken our Guns away so we can’t protect ourselves!

  • bob wire

    The city is a house of cards just waiting to fall.

    But if you have never lived in any other environment how could you possibly know? There just too much interdependency that will drop away in hard times.

    After being devastated by freakish weather south of Van Horn,Texas on land then offered by the government to work and settle. Escaping with their lives, the cloths on their backs,a broad wheeled wagon and solid horse team, my family moved into an area of Texas where the old Chisholm Trail across the Brazos river and it there that they survived during the depression by share cropping on the thirds. Every third bail, bushel and calf, from cotton to peanuts to hay. Chicken, eggs, wild game and milk were the only things excluded from the land owners tally count.

    They were poor but they ate well and survived with some dignity and thrived better then many of their city cousins.

    This came to an end only after the war effort took the sons and too much work was left undone and life became too hard, moving into the city became necessary for the senior men and what was left of the family.

    I was driving my mother to a burial service just last year and as we pasted though a small Texas town, mother was playing the part of a tour guide, telling me how it use to be and where everything was at.

    “And that where the ice cream parlor was!” she said. “OH, really”, I said. “Did you and your friends gather there mom?” “Oh No!, I didn’t have the money but that’s where it was!”

    I paused to reflect on that for a moment, ~ little girls with no money for ice cream ~ but they knew where it was at and swelled with excitement just look on the store front.

    • kate8

      bob wire – Thanks for that touching story.

      When I was a child my parents had little money, but we never felt poor. My dad “farmed” the 1/3 acre we had and we always had plenty of fruits, vegetables and eggs. Today, you can’t buy food that tastes like what dad grew.

      What comes to my mind is that the population is sooooo much greater today, and quite a different mentality.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        kate8,
        now days you can’t raise chickens in the city, either!!

        • kate8

          Joe H. – Well, if disaster happens and people need food, if they can get chickens I’ll bet they’ll raise them. Goats, too.

          I grew up in an agricultural town, with lots of chicken ranches. We could do just about anything we wanted to. The neighbors across the (dirt) road from us had a horse in a small corral, and another friend had a milk cow. We loved the life, and everything was clean, too. I’d trade a lot to have that kind of freedom again.

          Besides that, we all knew each other. We were always visiting at one home or another, and us kids were out all day with friends. You could always count on people if you needed help.

          Oh, and BTW, almost everyone attended church every week.

  • 45caliber

    One benefit of saying in the city …

    When the food runs out, there will be plenty of people around to eat.

    • kate8

      45 – True, but the meat will be tainted.

      • 45caliber

        I agree. Hadn’t thought of that. Most of them will have a high level of cocaine …

    • Cawmun Cents

      yes but that goes both ways Sharky…..

  • Mary Kay Andrews

    I find it so strange that the past several years have brought out so many doomsday scenarios. It’s fascinating to listen to people talk about surviving a disaster of mega proportions. As a person who lives in a large city with an elderly parent, I would probably be one of the first to pass on. We certainly at our age couldn’t defend ourselves against armed gangs and don’t have the family structure to go to in a small community. However, the author does make valid points. There are several posters who apparently live in small communities or have farm land or ranches. You could probably survive initially the best since you wouldn’t be around the blast area. (With all the suitcase atomic bombs floating around it is a safe bet some looney terrorist is going to set one off. I see Phoenix, Denver, St. Louis or some other large city going up.) It is seriously difficult to survive a nuclear attack if you are any where near the detonation point. I think an economic disaster is much easier to survive, but, again I and my small family would probably not make it. When you are an elderly person, no matter your skills, it becomes increasingly hard to do the things you need to do to be self sufficient.

    • kate8

      Mary Kay – I know what you mean. I raise vegetables every year, but getting the soil prepared becomes a bigger challenge for me every spring. I’ve already started digging (I have always used just a shovel) a small patch every day, while the ground is soft. I figure by planting time it will be done.

      The other question, though, is water. We are beginning to be restricted, and rates are skyrocketing. Landscaping and gardens are being discouraged.

      BTW, CA is in full implementation of Agenda 21, and it’s heading everyone else’s way fast.

      • Cawmun Cents

        Agenda 21…beep…kate8…beep…haw!

        • Dan az

          Most Americans will remain unaware of the implications of smart growth and Agenda 21 until after it is promulgated in their own backyards. Ironically, these plans are more insidious than the Eminent Domain ruling by the Supreme Court in the case of Kelo v City of New London. Under Eminent Domain rulings, property owners usually receive compensation for their losses.

          Conversely, smart growth municipal plans, required by statute, enable municipalities to change zoning laws and engage in other regulatory actions that devalue property, restrict off-conveyances, and otherwise erode property values without payment of any compensation to the property owner.

          Smart growth has another interesting unintended consequence: it can disrupt conventional alliances and lead to strange political bedfellows. Rural urbanization plans may raise the ire of environmental groups while simultaneously stirring the wrath of both conservative and liberal residents that want to maintain the rural fabric of their communities. Conversely, developers, sensing opportunity, may side with government smart growth bureaucrats in support of these plans.

          Regardless of political orientation, two indisputable facts remain. Agenda 21 is a direct assault on private property rights and American sovereignty, and it is coming to a neighborhood near you.

          • kate8

            Dan az – You are correct.

            Agenda 21 is also all about restricting our use of energy and water, through regulation and rapidly rising rates. I heard a Congressman speaking on this a few years back, warning us it was coming if we didn’t do something to stop it. We didn’t.

            We are to, eventually, be limited to 26 gallons of water per day. Power will be so expensive we won’t be able to use much of it, and the smartgrid will control when and how we use it by remote.

            This hideous thing was mandated by our legislature by stealth. It came upon us before we knew what happened.

          • Dan az

            Kate
            You knew that it was coming I remember you asking about it and told you how to slow it down on the meter.I havent seen this type of meter but I think they might be using it in williams so I will go check it out and see if it will work.

    • http://www.wyomingclassics.com Elaine Bridge

      May I suggest getting into a good church body or synagog if you are Jewish? We have a wonderful church family here and most of them are older people. They could not likely make it on their own, but they can do a lot of things regardless and those of us who are younger and more able can do the rest. Church families look out for each otehr often better than biological families. Your common unity with them in faith could make the difference between survival and not. Even in our church body, those who can do NOTHING very helpful can PRAY adn that is just as important if not more important and we all know it. You can find and make a family that way and enjoy you life a whole lot more even in good times. Just a thought! Nobody loves you like GOd does or GOd’s people, be you gentile of Jew.

  • Todd Kreigh

    In general, I disagree with the author’s points. There are two lessons we should have learned from Katrina: local, state, and federal governments were useless (unless you want to count forcefully disarming the law-abiding so they could not protect themselves), and urban dwellers will cannibalize each other. Moreover, if the author admits “rational” people are calmly laying out detailed plans to pillage their neighbors, what are the hordes of irrational people planning?

    My mother grew up during the depression in a hardscrabble life on a farm with 12 other siblings. She never saw a hard dollar until she was 10 years old, but at least they ate well, in contrast to city dwellers standing in soup lines.

    A well-stocked and self-sufficient (as possible) rural retreat, staffed with a dozen friends/neighbors still offers the best chance of survival in a doomsday scenario. However, it takes years to stock and plan a retreat and learn the necessary skills to hunt, prepare wild game, grow a garden, and protect the perimeter, amid the many other long-forgotten ones that kept people like my mother and her family alive in the long-ago.

    We live in an age of rapid erosion of the can-do spirit, where the “entitlement” mindset holds sway and increasing numbers of people grow up thinking God is irrelevant and the world owes them a living. It’s these types who will be on the loose looting freely if societal collapse should ever occur.

    • Cawmun Cents

      Most of the people in the Katrina disaster had the good sense to leave “Nawlins”.It was those that had ulterior motives that stayed unless they were hospitalized or just plain stupid.

    • 45caliber

      The lucky thing about those you mentioned doing the looting is that they are brave only in large numbers and seldom have any skill with guns or shooting. In most cases, if they see you are armed they will leave to find better pickings somewhere else. That’s why I urge everyone to get a gun and learn to use it. You probably won’t have to shoot anyone in a disaster case if you have a gun but you may wish you had one if you don’t have it.

  • Cawmun Cents

    One thing you rural dwellers might not take into account is the flow of thousands to your areas.I dont know how well stocked you are,but if you lack a stockade then I would suggest building one.The majority of urban folks are probably not going to try and ride it out in town as the article suggests,rather they will come to your areas for relief from the evils of the city.The godly among you will be faced with helping their fellow Americans or letting them go to the dogs.Which do you think God will have you do?But the trtuh is that there will be many instances where you might have to go to war to defend your stockpiles.it is possible that fleeing masses will become desparate,even feeding on each other.If so, then they wont have issues feeding off of you,or at least,attempting to.Stockpile ammunition,in the thousands of rounds,nd be well armed with many types of firearms.City folk dont have many ways of obtaining large stores of ammo,so that is to your advantage.But in sheer numbers they can make up for that,as well as being tenacious out of desparation.Be well advised,set firestations so that you can fire and retreat and leave a backdoor open in case you are overrun.But also be prepared to be merciful and take good folks into your homes.Spearating the good from the bad will be something you will need a person with discernment skills for.I pray that you will have one handy.

    • kate8

      Cawmun Cents – All those who scoff at the warnings and don’t prepare will be looting others supplies, that’s for sure.

      Another thing is that laws are already written against “hoarding”, and the feds will confiscate supplies if they find them.

    • bob wire

      thousands of what? Dollars? I guess that is what you are referring too.

      I know that it might be hard to do ~ but try to imagine a land with “no money” ~ or very little of it anyway.

      In the country you need for money is greatly reduced. There is little to buy. You barter, you trade things of value. ~ Ownership alone will not work. ~ You can’t eat land or money. Land alone will not produce.

      People and their neighbors depend on self reliance and each other. We can return to the time of draft animals if necessary, requiring less support.

      That’s what you are up against in the city, ~ support for a way of live that support maybe dwindling while people attempt to hold on to “appearances”. They could well wake up to this fact after it’s too late and then find themselves in a dog eat dog environment.

      Cities become nasty, ~ during the war, how many of you men remember being able to smell a city before you could see it? During the war, how many of you remember having a pocket full of MPC and nothing to spend it on? ~ It was okay for poke games but rife and pistol cartilages worked in a pinch.

      A land without money, ~ it is kinda hard to imagine today I suppose.

      • bob wire

        opps ! cartridges ~ oh well, ~ there going my hopes for publishing!

  • Robin from Arcadia, IN

    Regardless… I’ll take the country over the city any day!

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    If Doomsday ever comes and you are old or disabled, you better have your house in order with God. We will and can do a lot to try and survive, but it will be Gods will what will happen to us. He says he will not for sake those who believe in him. I surley believe this and if it`s my time I will join him in the Kingdom of Heaven.If it`s not my time, I will try to fight on and help others.It will be up to him.
    My life is in his hands and so is yours.

    • Cawmun Cents

      Yo Charles….it’ll be that way for everyone.Just Sayin….

    • http://www.wyomingclassics.com Elaine Bridge

      WE ARE ALL IN THE HANDS OF GOD…all the time and not just in disasters. If we could all figure that out we would all be better off. You many be old or disabled, but I AM MY BROTHERS keeper and YOU may also be AN ANGEL of which I am unaware. God appears to us in many faces and HE is sovereign.. We need to prepare as best we can and put our trust in Him and not the preparation. He says He will provide for His people in time of famine. Remember the widow’s oil that NEVER ran out? I have heard things like this from missionaries I have known.Trust and prepare.

  • jopa

    I really don’t know who all these alien invaders are that you all fear.When you leave the theater you should tell yourself it was only a movie.The most likely scenario even in today’s world would be a “dirty bomb” of sorts with minimal impact on any given area.With the new START treaty chances of that are even being diminished.This article is similar to stories back in the 50s and 60s when people started making bomb shelters.

    • 45caliber

      jopa:

      You actually believe that the Start Treaty will reduce the chances of nuclear war? Oh, you innocent! Actually, all it ever does is reduce our own number of missiles – which encourages others. Russia has more weapons today than they did before the first treaty was ever signed.

  • http://none R. M. McConnell

    I do wish you would incerase the font size of these responses so I could read them without a magnifying glass. They are,for the most part, more interisting/valuable than the generating tiicle.

    • Dan az

      RM McConnell
      try holding down the ctrl button and use your wheel on the mouse to expand it and contract it.It works.

      • bob wire

        Yes RM, ~ you have the power to control your font size at your own finger tips! Clever ! no?

        as Dan directed you ~ press down and hold “ctrl” key while at the same time adjusting size with mouse wheel.

        You can make it any sizing your heart desires,

  • Todd Kreigh

    Yeah, treaties offer excellent protection against nukes. And rogue nations can always be counted on to abide by them.

  • Jim M.

    All excellent, thoughtful discussion thus far. Seems to me self-reliance can be had in cities too. Seems to me that the risk in cities is larger.

    I suggest that all this dialogue may boil down to like minded folks banding together through the next few years. Tough times don’t last, tough people do.

    • bob wire

      Hard times does separate the wheat from the chaff but it’s not a pretty thing to watch especially when so many people are failing to understand the process or see the need for it,~ thinking , hoping things might change , that God or government might save them.

      Cream might well rise, but it’s a very slow process. ~ Speaking of which, I’m needing to get onions sets in the ground this week for mother or come May and June we well not be enjoying a crop.

      Country living requires a lot of thinking ahead, hard work , little luck and the Lord’s blessing and even then it sometimes is not enough.

      I have an Uncle outside of Oxford Mississippi set a 100 acre of corn, ~ and when it started coming up he sprayed a fertilizer on the starts. ~ The Deer just loved that fertilizer “topping” and wiped out 75 acres before he could gain control of the situation. He’s got 1500 acres that butts up to a national forest of immense size. His place reminds me of the Pointarossa without the grand mountains. The game makes it hard to ever farm his place. But he keeps trying.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        I think that was the Ponderosa!!

        • bob wire

          Thanks Joe, ~ I had a brain freeze.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    I`m glad you all trust the Russians so much. If these treaties were so great,how come the Russians have twice the war heads we have. The Start
    treaty is just another blunder our country has made with Russia.It`s gone on for years. Not only Obama, but every President before him.

    • 45caliber

      Actually, I believe the Russians have at least four times as many as we do. And with Oblama’s new Start Treaty, that will give them even more ratio in their favor.

  • Dan az

    I have found that most city dwellers that moved to areas like mine dont seem to stay to long.It is a way of life that you must learn to survive.Its not difficult to learn but you need to set up every thing in advance or its just going to be extremely hard to coupe with.The things that you are accustom to like electricity you will need to provide for your self.Like I said its not hard,but necessary for not only lights and refrigeration but for water also.Simple things like flushing the toilet takes water and to get that water take power.What people forget is that if there was a limited emp then it would have greater distruction than merely fall out.There are not enough transformers on stock and would take years to replenish because of lack of inventory and manufacturing.To control the masses you must control the food and water.

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      You’re spot on. And this is what people who live in rural areas quickly forget…rural life is easy to people who have already made the transition to rural life, but it’s not always an easy transition. For many urban dwellers, they have to find a new way to feed themselves. They have to learn the subtle but vital version of small town politics that’s playing out where they choose to relocate to. They have to learn not to gossip. They have to accept the fact that they’ll be the “new guy from the city” for 5-15 years, depending on where you live.

      And the Green Acres life that everyone expects? It’s a fantasy. Being self sufficient is rewarding but hard work.

      The point of this whole article is that if someone currently lives in an urban area, they’d better have a plan in place to survive disasters right where they currently are…not where they WANT to be.

  • Mark W

    Do Not Stay in the Cities During or after a major Melt down. life will be UNSUSTAINABLE – you will have to get out sooner or later and sooner is better

    1. Rioting
    2. Food Shortages
    3. Unsustainable – You will run out of Water, Food
    4. How will you grow food without giving your location away
    5. How will you dispose of waste
    6. How will you handle fires that threaten your area
    7. Bad folks will not get out until they have robbed all the targets of value and broken into all the local homes, apartments, banks, drug stores, etc
    8. Disease control
    9 Martial law will happen first in larger cities – guns taken, curfews declared.

    DO NOT STAY IN A CITY… GET OUT – unless you have a company of Marines standing by to protect you

  • JC

    David Morris,

    I agree with much of what you have said.
    However those of us who are prepared to go off line, ie: generator power, home gardens etc, will be targets for those desperate people no matter how many or how few. If your house is the only one with a light on or a plume coming from the chiimney you will attract people like a magnet.
    That being a given, are we prepared to shoot people if necessary to keep them out and keep ourselves safe? God Forbid, but I would have to say yes.
    And it is entirely possible that if you abandon your home, you won’t be getting it back. So leaving is a last resort.
    Now, how about a situation of martial law? Will you have the option later of hooking up your trailer or RV and heading down the highway to your favorite remote place? Or should you bolt at the first opportunity before roadblocks are in place?
    There are no good answers to any of these questions and all we can do is prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

    The best thing we will have going for us is instinct and supplies.

    • JR

      There is an interdependency rural people would like to forget…you can not survive without the cities either…do you want to live like out forefathers? Go for it, but you will have to take the freedom with the bad. The bad are poor nutrition, deceases, and if you get really sick and the next Dr that really can help you may be 100 or more miles away that will be your death sentence….just like it was for our forefathers. There is a reason people banded together in cities. And although being in a city or suburban area if the crapper hits the fan will be highly dangerous, I rather be here than out in nowhere ville where for a short time you can live like our forefathers…until something comes up you did not plan for and you die.
      I see people on here that post we have enough guns and munition to last long enough to defend our self… how often? How long?
      Fact is you may do it once, twice, and then someone will come along that wants what you have bad enough and they will get it.And if you have them peed off enough, they will not care if they get anything, all they want is for you being death. Military hardware like mortars and grenades will have found they’re way into the hands of those that are strong enough to rove in bands. All your weapons and munitions will be useless against military and swat hardware….and let me tell you something else, whoever leads those roaming hoards, chances are he/she is ex military or has extensive police or swat training. Many are out there and many are bad or will get bad…and it will be those that others will flock around. I predict, that 5 or 6 month into a break down of our civilization, most of you will be either joining those bands or be death. Being rural and isolated will be your destruction. Do you really believe that people who are planing to survive by raiding and killing don’t know who or where you are? You have the bulls eye on your place as we speak. Google earth and other programs like it have made it extreme easy for anyone to plan ahead and know everything and anything you do.
      Don’t believe me? Do some research, i was surprised at what detail simle things as a foot path to one of my storage areas that I thought hidden well showed up on a satellite picture.
      If you believe you will be safe and untouchable just because you are somewhere rural…think again.

  • Gordon in Texas

    I’m afraid that too many assumptions are made here. The first assumption is that an economic disaster, pandemic, social breakdown, etc. will be short-term. Short-term may mean anywhere from 1 week to three months. Remember, the food will be gone in 2-3 days with a re-supply unlikely within a week. This breeds panic and people act in odd ways when panic takes over. The majority of people WILL NOT be ready for a crisis and these people will be pulling others under the water to get to the life raft. Any crisis that lasts longer than 1 week without re-supply of food and necessities will breed panic and lawlessness; especially if the crisis is economic and people discover that their money is useless.

    Another assumption is urban dwellers will band together to help each other. History has shown that during a crisis, the majority of citizens in an urban area are going to do what ever they have to do to survive. AFTER the event is over and people settle into some what of a routine they will work together to survive. This may be too late for some. Looting will happen in an urban area and gangs of thugs will roam the streets; especially if the authorities take the citizens’ weapons away. I suspect that those in rural areas will be more prepared to deal with a crises and will band together while the crises is in full swing. Your piece on roadblocks (civilian and government) shows that people in rural areas are already putting plans in place for such a crises.

    I do appreciate all you’re doing with the ‘survive in place’ material you’re providing us and it will come in handy no matter where you plan to be in a crises. I’m taking notes in the event I cannot make it to my survival retreat. But I’ll feel more comfortable in a rural setting, knowing that I’m prepared (as are those around me) to ride out a long-term crises.

    Gordon

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      Hey Gordon, your assumption that I assumed a 1 week scenario is incorrect :) My primary line of preparations are ones that will not only work in short, medium, and long term scenarios, but also in day-to-day life.

      And, actually, the history that I’ve read and first hand accounts of urban survivors that I’ve talked with and interviewed has overwhelmingly changed my mind from thinking like you do (everyone will be out for themselves) to accepting the fact of the matter, which is that most people help each other after disasters.

      The jerks and criminals will always get the most coverage, but that’s just because of our “if it bleeds, it leads” media mentality.

      What happens more often is that people help each other after disasters. It’s boring, it’s not newsworthy, and you’ve got to dig the stories out of people because most of them don’t think that they did anything out of the ordinary.

      But, back to your point of wanting to ride out disasters in a rural area…GREAT! Just make sure you have a plan to ride out disasters wherever you spend the majority of your time.

  • 45caliber

    How many of you know your neighbors?

    My daughter-in-law is Phillipino. She has a bad time of it in her neighborhood because she was raised to know and be friends with her neighbors. Here, very few neighbors do more than say hi when they pass. Actually, it’s been my experience to find the country people know each other better than those living next door to each other in the cities.

    • Dan az

      45
      That’s so true, in the cities it was rare for anyone that was within your neighbor hood to know even there closes neighbor that was five feet away.Out here my closest neighbor is a half mile away and are just as much a family member.Huge differences between city life and country life.

      • bob wire

        I think “knowing neighbors” is very important ~ and very varied with the people you might ask.

        The nature of our society of where and when.

        I’ve lived many places and it’s been so different in each.

  • The ‘American’

    With all do respect to Mr. Morris, there are a few of things I would like to point out. From reading the article, I doubt seriously that he ever prepared himself, and/or ever personally went on a minimal one month survival trip alone to an area like the Idaho Wilderness. We are talking now about preparing yourself in the case of a ‘real horrendous crisis’. I’m talking about personal survival with nothing more than real practical clothes and equipment to provide for yourself (and yours), and the knowledge of survial skills. I have done this kind of trip,– a few times, so I know what I am talking about. This is a storehouse of personal knowledge that ‘God forbid’,should ever become necessary to call upon, I will survive.

    This is the ONLY modern equipment that should be taken in a SMALL personal waterproof ‘black’ backpack to be carried by each capable person, or family member,— in case they get separated. Included in each SMALL backpack should be a few medical supplies (also Clorine tablets), a ball of fishing line with some hooks, a high-power sidearm in a holster, and rifle of the same caliber in a backpack scabbord, as much ammo (or makins’) as possible, a good K-BAR knife and strong small ax/w hammer head on one side, a good supply of matches in a sealed, watertight container and/or a small amount of stout twine or nylon rope, minimal (military canteen) water, a good supply of jerky, lightweight waterproof raingear/windbreaker, hat, leather gloves, one change of warm socks and underwear, and one lightweight thermal blanket rolled in a lightweight- waterproof personal tent attached to the backpack. This is all you would need to survive , push come to shove. All this would be less than 30 pounds per backpack. Actually,this could all be put together and put in a storage closet as a ‘quick-grab’ should you ‘have to get out of Dodge’ in a real hurry. This could actually be done with a few things less if absolutely necessary.

    Know where you ‘WANT’ to go and work your way to that destination however you can. Learn to live off of the land where you are. There is plenty out there to survive on. It is not hard. There are too many factors that would prevent any ‘stocking up of anything’, or make it worthwhile, if the ‘do-do’ seriously hits the fan. One of the biggest problems would be getting away from the population and getting far enough away to an area with water so that you can survive for a while.

    In times of a real immediate crisis, it is NOT the quadra-ped or snakes you have to fear,they are edible. It is the bi-ped that is the threat. The survival instinct in man is the stongest instinct he possesses in a real life-treatening crisis. Self presevation reigns supreme. That means killing anything or anyone to survive. The less the human personally knows of survial skills, the more desperate and dangerous he becomes as a predator in an extreme crisis. Anything you have, that he needs to survive, he will try and get from you at all costs. My faith in mankind under these circumstances is minimal at best, if at all.

    We are talking EXTREME circumstances here, but that is the way you initially have to think to survive. You have to remove yourself from people and situations that can overwhelm you. Usually, a crisis hits very quickly, and you have to react quickly. With the robbing and stealing that goes on in this day and age for a ‘dime bag’, much less for survival, where are you going to stock anything up that won’t eventually be broken into and stollen anyway? Besides, in a survival crisis, the more you have, the more you are likely to be harmed. There are ways of ‘stocking up’, but it is a ‘long term plan’, and a immediate long term plan is not usually what most people think about until it’s too late. You have to consider the worst scenario. All supplies of any kind, in a major crisis that would cripple large portions of the country, or even the entire country, would either stop or be looted. In cases like that, people would kill, and take advantage of each other for water,food, or whatever else they wanted or needed. Only the ‘fittest’, most cunning, or ruthless would survive. The effects of ‘Katrina’ are but a ‘mini-mini,-example’ of that, and they had the aid of the rest of the nation at their disposal for help. What if there wasn’t any help available? Outside of setting broken bones, doctors would probably not have access to drugs or much of anything to stop any sickness, epidemics, or perform any surgeries for a period of time. They more than likely will be trying to survive themselves. That is the ‘real world’ folks!!!

    In the case of my survial, I would much rather take my chances away from the masses. If I have to confront anything or anyone to protect myself, it would most likely be on a one to one basis, and on ‘my terf’ at the time. The odds are much better to prevail for me and mine until the serious crisis is over, or at least under control.

    • 45caliber

      Good advice.

    • JR

      Unless of course the event happens in winter with howling winds, snow storms and blizzards, and temperatures reaching -30 degrees or lower.

      Remember, Events don’t happen when YOU want them to happen, a crisis does not care what time of year or time of day it is. Can you and your family survive at -30 degrees out in the wilderness with only what you have on your back…and survive in a way that nobody else that is desperate and roams the area finds you and kills you for what you have?

      Remember, to survive in those conditions you either have to be constant on the move (a lot of calorie intake in the winter) or be a sitting duck somewhere. Surviving in the midst of winter….not just for a week or two but actually survive a prolonged event takes a whole of a lot more than what you advocate.

      • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

        Hey JR…exactly right. He’s assuming that everyone is on their own, that they don’t have kids, don’t have parents, and everyone is in perfect health and all together, packed up, and ready to bug out within minutes of a disaster happening. Real life is a little more complicated.

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      Hey “American”, thanks for your comment.

      I agreed with most of your post, but the first and last part were way off base.

      It sounds like you are in the camp that believes that if everyone doesn’t agree with you 100%, then they don’t know anything…and that’s pretty sad.

      It’s attitudes like this that got soldiers killed in the first Gulf War, and the start of OIF, and OEF. In short, there was MUCH more emphasis placed on wilderness survival skills than urban survival skills. The fact is that you need survival skills that match the environment that you’re operating in.

      Over the years, our SERE programs have stepped up the urban survival / anti-kidnapping training so that our soldiers, Marines, and airmen have an increased chance of surviving when separated from their units in urban areas.

      On the civilian front, it’s the same thing. If your area of operation is an urban area, you need to have plans in place to survive disasters that may happen when you’re in an urban area. If your area of operation is a rural area, the same logic applies.

      Sometimes I’d rather take my chances away from the masses also, but the fact is that I, and most Americans, live with the masses and need a plan that is based in reality rather than ideal circumstances. And after a disaster, long distance movement is one of the most dangerous things you can do…ESPECIALLY if you have a family.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    45caliber,
    I think your probley right. They have at least 4 times as many. I heard that Obama gave some of Englands atomic secrets to the
    Russians to get them to sign onto the Start treaty. If this is true,
    he is one sick idiot. You won`t read about it in the main street meddia. If I where the Britts and this is true,I would tell Obama to
    go straight to Hell if he ever needed them again.

    • 45caliber

      I understand that he told the Russians where all the nukes were hidden in Europe that were set up to shoot at Russia if a war broke out. That included all those in England, which got the English justifiably upset.

      • sofa

        Treason. Traitor.
        What’s the specified cure for that?

  • http://www.somersetares.org Keith

    If you think this article was interesting, check out the online course “Survive In Place” by David Morris. I recently completed it. I’ve been involved with emergency management and preparedness for almost 20 years and have to say this was well written. No, he didn’t pay me to say that! I just believe he is on the right track in educating the public. Good to see more and more people are interested in preparedness skills. If you can’t make it out of the city safely, these urban survival skills will increase your chances for making it. I personally would make every attempt to leave MY urban area but that is my own opinion. Face it though- imagine thousands or millions trying to leave NYC. Two tunnels and a few bridges??? One traffic accident can shut down nearly every highway in Central Jersey. One person commented on guns being banned in cities. That is a fact in NYC (why live in an area where they strip your rights to begin with?), but in many states, civilians still have the right to own or even carry a firearm. Any course, no matter how well written, will keep every student alive. You still have to practice these skills and stay sharp. Again, his course is very well written and can be easily understood by all (who understand English anyway).

    Thanks again Dave!

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      Thanks, Keith!

  • http://none John

    This article is only correct if your main assumption is that the current government is your friend and has your best interest at heart, i.e they are going to be helpful. Right now at this stage in time I think its very obvious that in a complete disaster situation our government will be anything but helpful for anyone but themselves. They will first try to control the people (so those folks in the cities will only get help if they conform to what the government wants even if its not in their best interest). That means they will cut off all food and water until you conform to their demands, and in the cities you wont have many options to get more food or water. Out in the country (rural areas) you have a better chance of lasting longer. Second they will confiscate all guns (for your safety of course) but the criminals they will still have them. So much for your safety. Third they will try to control the population in some form after they eliminate those who prefer to be free, right now my guess is with some sort of RFID tag so you can be located at anytime in anyplace.

    Bottom line is that if your main assumption is that the government will help folks and not take their freedom away, then yes a city is where things will be restored first. If on the other hand that assumption is wrong, then being in the city is a death sentence. Being rural may also be a death sentence but, at least you will live free till they come to kill you.

    Sooner or later whether you live in a city or rural area, you will come to the point where the line in the sand has to be made. You either stand for freedom, fight for it, and stand against the evil of totalitarianism/socialism/marxism/communism, etc., or you simply die. Right now, based on what the Obama administration is doing, my guess is they would rather we die. Your choice 100%.

  • Rennie

    Sewer systems overflowing into streams, contaminating water and fishing. Cities are the more likely target of terrorism and have more to steal. True, people can work together, as they did in Egypt to protect their neighborhoods, notice they did not have the options of firearms, and I would encourage people to know who has what skills/ability in such an emergency. Areas with land suitable for crop production, and wild game for harvesting (better to trap than shoot) I think personally gives me better odds in a rural setting, to someone who ha smore urban skills this won’t be the case. Yes, urban areas come first on government response, ask anywheres pounded by Katrina that never saw a helicopter or a news crew. Basically, I think it depends on the situation and who/what you know. Getting caught out on the highway is the worst case, especially in the event of some kind of EMP that kills your modern vehicle, so better have what you need accessible. Networking is important no matter what location, I don’t think anyone would want to be 100% independent and isolated, but law and order must be maintained, even if the USA and it’s constitution only continues to exist for a few miles in either direction, no one should figure all laws or rights are suspended. People must work in cooperation, sharing skills, labor, tools, etc. without coercion, it will make everything work smoother and maintain order, because the real problems will be howling at the door soon enough.

  • Void1972

    During WWII, there were a few urban sections in Germany where the folk never knew a war was going on. Many did not find out for a few years that their country was devastated. You are much better off in the “sticks” then in any city.
    The time is coming when our entitlement program will run out of money, and the animals who have sucked off it will start to riot. local police are being layed off and in most cities, they do not have enough of law to enforce the minor problems now.
    In the next couple of years, the gangs will rule the streets.
    The majority s always wrong, so when everyone is busy buying gold, you need to buy ammo. The price of ammo has increased the the same rate as gold, but you can’t eat gold, can’t buy protection with gold( just ask the Jews of Germany in the 1930s)and those with ammo can protect, while gold offers nothing.
    Don’t be fooled by the fools. Invest in hard assets, guns, ammo, canned and dried foods.
    Trust in God and pray for all of this sickness to end, but prepare yourself for hard times if it’s his will.
    God Bless America, and those who fight for her!

  • Void1972

    I meant Rural areas of Germany, not urban.

  • Ken1942

    I too have taken Dave’s course and highly recommend it. I think some posters have slighly missed the point – If you have a real choice about where to live, away from a large urban area is likely best, but if you are already in a large city, what can you do to best survive where you are? I live on Long Island, NY. Even on a good day, getting off the Island is a problem, there are a couple of ferries, a half a dozen bridges and a couple of tunnels. Only a boat, a plane, or a helicopter are real alternatives. So, how do you stay and still manage best? This is what Dave’s course is all about. ( I also am not a paid consultant) I have been into survival training for more than 40 years – read what he has to say, it is the best stuff I have ever seen.

    • libertytrain

      I think you are correct. Some people did slightly miss the point of the Urban life. I think very few would be able to leave the city. I don’t think it would be even as “organized” as Katrina. It will be every person for themselves to get out of the city in the event of an unexpected type disaster.

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      Thanks, Ken!

  • The ‘American’

    JR, respectfully, you may be correct on some points ‘for the masses’ in general. But, no one really knows the exact circumstances of who randomly lives or dies in an extreme crisis situation. There are as many variables to a scenario as there are scenarios. You talk about swat teams etc. Yes, they are highly trained, and have a good chance at succeeding at whatever they go after, but I seriously doubt that they would waste their resources on one, or even a few isolated individuals somewhere a long away from the immediate urban problem. They most certainly would be very busy just with the problems in the urban environment alone.

    To raise the question on the other side of the coin, do you have any idea how proficient, skilled, trained, and capable I am? Granted, you don’t know, where I was raised, or how, or how much training I’ve had. I, like many others may only be a very small percentage who would have a relatively good chance of survivng alone—-for however long, but it can most definitely be done. Machines, men, and equipment CAN be stopped. It’s just a matter of ones knowledge.

    Here is the bottom line. If I am to die because of the result of a extreme social crisis, then I will make the choice to die on my own terms and not be led to be slaughtered like so many cattle, or just left to die at someone elses command either by intrinsic or extrinsic factors. The knowledge one possesses for invoking survival actions and making choices of how, what, where, when, and why is truly one’s key to survival—– be prepared to live or die by that knowledge. To me personally, considering all the factors, if one remains in an urban environment in the event of an extreme social crisis, it is conservatively speaking to say, it is up to a possible 85% chance to it being their death sentence, probably within the first week. Worse than humanity against itself, we haven’t even considered yet the results of the pestilence that would take over. Give THAT some serious thought!!!!!

  • Stuart Ashley

    Hi All;
    Mr. Morris is an expert in Urban Survival. Therefore, it is not surprising that he advocates same. And why not? A person may have a better chance of survival in an environment that is familiar. For my own part, I would prefer the country, more than one tank of gas away from a big city. The cities attract terrorist events (more bang for the buck, so to speak). We still remember how a natural disaster affected New Orleans. Does anyone remember Watts? Additionally, I am not city adapted. We grow, or fish for, more than half of what we eat, and could expand to 100%. We have a wood stove and solar panels. We know and trust our neighbors and already cooperate with them. We won’t have to hope we can work out some last minute cooperative arrangement.

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      Right on, Stewart…plan for where you are, not for where you want to be.

  • Gary T

    It’s obvious that the writer of this article has never spent any time in rural areas. You can stay in the cities and take your chances on getting murdered, raped or whatever. I’ll stay right where I am. I have guns, fishing equipment and can grow my own crops. I know a lot of my fellow Montanans who will watch my back and help me. I’ll do the same for them. All I’m going to say to Dick Morris and all the other urbanites. Good luck

    • libertytrain

      You seem to be missing the point of this article. It’s to help those poor souls that are in urban areas. I’m in the country and he’s right, if service is going to be restored in say a weather emergency type problem, the city will be serviced before I will be. Trucks will go to the city to start delivering supplies before they come out here. But you’re right, we may be more prepared out in the country to live in general, may just have to do it longer.

    • http://SurviveInPlace.com David Morris (Survival Dave)

      Bad assumption on how many DECADES I’ve lived in rural areas, where “neighbors” were anyone who lived within a couple of sections. I’ve lived in both, and live in a city now. :)

      One biggie that you brought up is that neighbors in the city actually CAN watch each other’s back, and hear each others’ screams for help. Now, unfortunately, that’s because a lot of houses are built on top of one another…kind of like houses were built inside walled cities in medieval times. Even though it comes at a cost (privacy,) the benefit is still there.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    America,
    We are headed to become the next big Weimar Republic if the goverment dosen`t quit spending money and the Federal Reserve dosen`t quit printing money. Ask Germany what happened >> HITLER!! HITLER!! HITLER!!
    If we don`t stop.>>>> OBAMA!!! OBAMA!!! OBAMA!!! You can take this to the bank.

  • jopa

    45caliber;Above you stated “I would rather have a redneck to defend me than a liberal.At least you can depend on a redneck.” I don’t know it if you realize it or not but there are a whole lot of redneck liberals.If your an American I’m sure they will defend you.

  • The ‘American’

    Mr. Morris, NO ONE has to agree with me, and you are correct in referring to ‘a crises never happening at an opportune time’. Nothing can be more true. I’m telling you what works for me. No one else need heed the advise. BTW, one of those trips I took to the Idaho Wilderness was in late fall, into early winter. I did just fine. Obviously, I survived, and actually survived pretty well. Yes, it was very cold at times, but preparing or finding shelter was not a problem. Most of the time I was on the move daily, but stayed stationary in a good shelter when the weather got bad. I’m not saying I would ever want to do that again VOLUNTARILY, but it can be done. (Unquestionably, I was glad to get back to the city for the ‘comforts’ when the trip was over.) Besides a pretty good knowledge of how to survive in extreme conditions plays a large part, as does mental attitude, which goes hand in hand with the necessity. Believe me, survial alone in extreme conditions, any time of year, is NOT for the faint of heart, or unprepared. I will grant you this, sometimes, it can be miserable at best. Food and water were not a problem. My knowing what’s out there as opposed to what the potential of my ‘ease of survial’ in the city would be, the choice for me to ‘beat-feet’ is simple. I personally would do it again in a heartbeat– if I had too. I did not find surviving and personally being alone that much of a overall burden, and from what I exprienced, if I had to bring my family along, I truly believe they would probably be a little uncomfortable at times, but they would survive, and do it just fine as opposed to the alternatives of the city in a terrible crisis. Lets qualify one of the most important prerequisits to do this,— you had better be in pretty good health and in relatively good physical shape. You had better be able to have the ability to be self relient and do WHATEVER it takes for self presevation as well as for the survival of whoever is with you, at anytime. Again I will stress that one of the main keys to ‘SURVIVAL’is being able to adapt, but the most important of all are three things —– KNOWLEDGE, KNOWLEDGE, KNOWLEDGE.

  • Tex Expatriate

    I would not live in a city again for a billion dollars, and I now live in the country on a family estate among six families that look out for one another–armed. The way to survive in the city is to arm yourself (Join the NRA to learn how) and lay in a couple of years worth of emergency food and find a supply of water. And if you arm yourself learn how to use your armament.

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