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Why Public Employee Unions Lost Big In Wisconsin And California

June 14, 2012 by  

Public sector unions are the real threat to our Nation’s future. Government employee pensions will threaten the American dream and wipe away our quality of life. America is doomed if we don’t dramatically reform public pensions today. The private sector is strapped, and the public sector is sitting pretty. Private sector taxpayers are angry. We won’t take it anymore. That’s why Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker won last week.

 

Wayne Allyn Root

(W.A.R.) is a former Presidential candidate, the 2008 Libertarian Vice Presidential nominee, and a Libertarian-conservative national media star. His new book, “The Ultimate Obama Survival Guide” is a #1 national best-seller in bookstores, as well as an Amazon #1 Finance and Conservative bestseller. A former CNBC anchorman and host (then known as Financial News Network), Root is the ultimate Capitalist Evangelist: a blue-collar S.O.B. (son of a butcher) turned CEO, small businessman, serial entrepreneur, business speaker, and TV/radio commentator on the topics of business, economics, entrepreneurship, and politics. Root is a regular guest on Fox News, as well as on hundreds of conservative talk radio shows across the United States. His opinions reach tens of millions of Americans as a regular columnist and commentator for many of the most popular political and business websites, including FoxNews.com. He also writes regularly for The Washington Times. He is the bestselling author of eight books. Root serves as national spokesman for several companies, as well as a Senior Economic Advisor. Root is also well known in the television and media industries. He has hosted, starred and produced many television shows. Today, he is a producer of the highest-rated television show on Travel Channel. Because of his success in the diverse fields of business, media, sports, entertainment and publishing, Root was awarded his own 180-pound granite star in the Las Vegas Walk of Stars. Only 60 legends in the history of Las Vegas have received a star on Las Vegas Boulevard. A native New Yorker and graduate of prestigious Columbia University, this Capitalist Evangelist proudly resides in Nevada, a state with no income tax. His website is ROOTforAmerica.com.

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  • GALT

    Really? So what has Scott Walker DONE to dramatically reform public pensions?

    • http://google Mary

      He’s made it so that THEY have to contribute to their OWN pension and health care, WHY should the private sector pay for the public sector’s pensions and health care, when many of them don’t even have their OWN? Did YOU have a say in what you personally would like to pay for teachers, police, firefighters, and garbage collectors pensions and health care, didn’t think so, they voted in people that would help them get more, while the payers sometimes had nadda.

      • GALT

        Really? So what has Scott Walker DONE to dramatically reform public pensions?

        Point being, if the problem is NOW……that did not solve it?

      • SJJolly

        IOW: If we make everybody (not in the top 1%) big losers, we’ll have national prosperity? Smaller Soc Sec and Medicare deductions from small government employee paychecks will, somehow, help fund present day Social Security and Medicare payouts?
        Social Security and Medicare have a big problem, yes, in paying for Baby Boomer retirements and final years, but the biggest part of this is Congress having to pay back the $ trillions they’ve borrowed from the funds.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        How did Ben say it Sat.? “I can see Nov. from WI!”, LOL!!!
        I thank God for our brave men and women who risk their lives in the line of duty day in and day out!!! Thank you all and God BLESS and watch over y’all, each and everyone! I agree that you fine folks deserve to be takin’ care of in the best our ability to do so, but benefits such as the DROP program is one of the entitlement to which Wayne refers!

        http://benefitsattorney.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=14

        This is abuse in my opinion! Look at the bonuses hand out to retired NY peace officers EVERY Nov.!

        http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/us/21bccola.html

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        Yeah why should someone who can’t afford to take a vacation be forced to help pay for someone else’s vacation?!!

      • oldgringo

        I do not like the idea that my tax dollars which pays these public service employees their salaries is also used to pay for their union dues which in part is donated to Democratic Candidates…..I’m a Republican and I don’t like my tax money being doled out to public service unions so that the Democrats can enhance their political power!…..I do not believe that Independent voters feel any different!

      • Kinetic1

        Mary,
        Scott Walker won by by spending tens of millions of dollars to spread lies, some of which you have bought into. Many Wisconsinites bought into the lie that recalls are only meant to deal with politicians who break the law. In reality it is simply a safety measure meant to insure that, say a Governor who decides to shut down legally voted for city governments and replace them with private firms can be removed before he can do any more harm.

        Another big Walker lie is that the state employees don’t pay enough of their own pension. Not so says a recent Forbes article,
        “Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.”

        When the workers negotiated their pay, part of it was deferred. Consider this, from section 13 of the Wisconsin Association of State Prosecutors collective bargaining agreement
        “For the duration of this Agreement, the Employer will contribute on behalf of the employee five percent (5%) of the employee’s earnings paid by the State. ”

        That 5% is the money the employee’s money. That 5% was to be invested by the state and the proceeds were to pay the pension. Now tell me, if an employee is already paying 100% of their pension through deferred pay and investment, how can they pay a larger portion?

        Perhaps the state failed to invest wisely. They could well have been caught up in the bank scandals of the last decade that wiped out so many pensions. Either way, should the employees be asked to pay for the mistakes of the state? Would you feel this way if it was your 401k they were refusing to honor?

      • http://teamlaw.org Jazzabelle

        Kinetic1 wrote: “Perhaps the state failed to invest wisely. They could well have been caught up in the bank scandals of the last decade that wiped out so many pensions. Either way, should the employees be asked to pay for the mistakes of the state? Would you feel this way if it was your 401k they were refusing to honor?”

        States frequently fail to invest wisely. And it is usually the taxpayers who are forced to pay for it. In my view, it’s better to ding the employees than the taxpayers. After all, the employees voluntarily joined a union that CHOSE to negotiate to have the state keep and invest a certain percent of their pay. The taxpayers didn’t have a say in that. And yes, if I handed over some of my earnings to someone else to invest for me, and the investment tanked, I’d feel pretty bad but I would accept that it’s MY loss because it was MY responsibility to pick my investment firm or do it myself.

      • Lois

        I am against public unions. I have no control over who is being hired or fired. I don’t feel I should be paying for someones pensions, healthcare. Government has become a business, at the taxpayers expense. I’m tired of it. We have a bloated government….i.e. communism

      • THG

        We do hand over a portion of our pay , and it probaby won’t be there in a few more years . It’s caled Social Security .

      • JerryWheelerWroteThis..

        @SSJ.. Haven’t you figured it out yet? Congress HAS no money.. They can’t pay those funds back on their salaries, they can only create special taxes so the PEOPLE will pay it back, but wait a minute! They say, “No more taxes!!” but really that isn’t the problem.. The problem is when they begin to receive this special revenue, calling it anything but taxes (like what the did with the ‘special’ cigarette tax), their mouths begin to salivate and their hands begin to roll and they think, ‘What I couldn’t do with this free money’ and they proceed to borrow this cash, place more useless IOU’s on the taxpayer, add the amount to the deficit and complain that they need to find a way to lower the deficit, meanwhile raises are in order.. Bonus’ abound and those trips to Cancun? Problem solved..

      • Palin16

        Money doesn’t vote at the polls, people do. All money does is buy commercials. I believe most Wisconsinites had their minds made up, one way or the other about this election a long time ago, and no commercials on either side were going to persuade anyone to change their mind. Personally, I can honestly say I’ve never seen a political attack ad that persuaded me to change my vote in favor of their guy.

      • restorefreedom

        It’s just not fair.

    • slapjack

      Your one of the crap bain loosers that are scewing up this country. Get your head out of your butt for a change and do somethibg for this country instead of constantly sucking the life blood out of it with your stupidity.. God have mercy on this country.

      • Deerinwater

        So your concern are with your country or you paying taxes?

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        No, libtards like you Deerdunderbrain!

      • Deerinwater

        Slapjack , are you going to show us what you got, or just crack wise with feeble childish efforts to annoy and offend?

        The question was asked, what has Walker done with States workers pensions and it’s worthy an answer without your smart lip.

        To my knowledge, the argument of state workers being “over paid” has yet been made.

        Over paid in comparison to what? the under confiscated and disenfranchised, a Dairy Farmer that works can to can’t, covered up in Federal Regs , knowing no other life ?

        Get off your High Horse and met us on the playing field of political discourse or go play “Kick the Can” with your simpleton friends.

      • Marion

        This whole country is getting tired of moochers. It is about time that these moochers quit feeding at the public trough and start taking care of their own butts.

      • DaveH

        Tell us, Deer — What are they being paid?
        To me it’s obvious that they are overpaid, or there would be no fuss. They would just find another job where the pay was what they were worth, right? People only need get manipulative and coercive when they are pushing for more than they’re worth.
        For instance, if we are in the market for a car and the dealer doesn’t quote an acceptable price, we don’t stone the dealership do we? Or picket them, or some other form of coercion, do we? No, we just go somewhere else.
        It’s strange that when it comes to the private sector, Liberals will get themselves all in a knot about Monopoly, but give a free pass to the only real Monopolies in the country (Government) and turn a blind eye to their use of Force to extract money from unwilling taxpayers.
        There should be no such thing as public Unions because negotiations are tainted by the fact that Government is not spending their own money when it comes to caving to Union demands. It’s easy to give other peoples’ money away.

      • independant thinker

        “There should be no such thing as public Unions because negotiations are tainted by the fact that Government is not spending their own money when it comes to caving to Union demands. It’s easy to give other peoples’ money away.”

        But if they are allowed to exist to pacify those like eddie, deer, RS, and others who think the world would stop turning without them all union contracts should be subjected to approval in a vote by the general public before they could go into effect.

      • Stuart Shepherd

        Slapjack-
        I think YOU should run for President!! You’d probably be more creative with vicious, childish, and totally mindless “attack ads” than Obama. Go for it, dog!

      • Deerinwater

        DaveH says:
        June 14, 2012 at 2:05 pm
        Tell us, Deer — What are they being paid?
        To me it’s obvious that they are overpaid, or there would be no fuss.”

        Hmm? O~kay?,,,, to not fuss means ~what then ? I’d be more a frame of mind to compare apples with apples ~ what does a 20 year vested history teacher bring down in Wisconsin compared to several other states?

        That would offer some support for this argument of being over paid or prove it false.

        I do not accept this notion to “assume” anything as being “obvious”

        There too many people willing to take advantage of people that assume the obvious, Walker being the first and foremost person in mind.

    • http://aol theno1chief

      What the recall election dealt with was collective bargaining! Scott ran on a promise to restrict this and do away with run-away pension plans that the state could not afford. The people elected him to do that, he was doing a good job, so the unions spent a massive amount of money to get him ousted. Guess what, the people elected him again. The President mis-spoke the other day, he said the private sector is doing just fine, what he meant to say was the public sector is doing great.

      • Deerinwater

        “Scott ran on a promise to restrict this and do away with run-away pension plans that the state could not afford. The people elected him to do that,”

        That is not the way I heard it but more the opposite, his actions caught most all with surprise.

        Publicly he did not make such statements while privately he probably did, ( if fact we see him on short film clip doing just that but only after his election) it was kept a secret to insure his success in getting elected.

  • MAP

    That a liberal would defend those who plunder their own earnings to enrich themselves gives greater proof that liberals are delusional fools, so far out in leftist dream world they have lost all connection with reality. Perhaps if such things came with a condition that only Democratic voters will fund the project, we would see a change in such childish idiocy. No doubt we would then see a major surge in the number of Republican voters. But then, liberals are, first and foremost, liars.

    • charlie

      Good post.
      People are now finding out what unions are really about. “It is not the members.”
      The public sector unionization is bad and so is the private. Just look at GM. It has been a proven fact that the bailout was not a success for GM it was for the bailout of the unions that no longer had the funds in the bank to support all the benefits they contracted. Remember that thousands of auto workers are still unemployed. Bankruptcy would have done the job better, prices of autos would have gone down and all would have been rehired with new union contracts that would have been much better for all. Taxpayers are out 23 billion not counting the loss to stock holders.

      • Robert Smith

        What would you offer a worker at an auto plant?

        How much per hour?

        How much retirement?

        How much medical?

        Now, how much for a policeman? Fireman? The guy who fixes the police cars?

        What do YOU feel is a fair wage?

        Rob

      • Sirian

        RS,
        Go to this link and watch it. It should give you a better understanding as to what games have been played on us – you included.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo

      • GALT

        Read THIS:

        “A man must live by his work, and his wages must be at least enough to maintain him. They must even on most occasions be somewhat more: otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family and the RACE of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation.”

        You might then understand what the game actually is and always has been?

      • Robert Smith

        Fine sentiments, Galt, but please put some numbers to it.

        For example, health care. How much should Chevy pay and how much should the employee pay?

        Rob

      • eddie47d

        Sirian doesn’t have a clue in how to capture the world markets. If China is growing and the demand for cars is increasing you go where the buyers are.China makes money off of us so why not make money off of them. That is a smart move on the part of GM and keeps their business fluid. If Americans want to buy GM they can still do so thanks to the company being saved. Granted that all bailouts don’t work but so far this one has. Hundreds of American companies have business dealings and factories in other countries so you might as well attack the whole Capitalistic system for they are all guilty. Now if these American companies move overseas and then ship their products back to the US then that is a loophole that show be fixed. That takes us back to the CEO’s who run the operations and whether they are playing fair or not.

      • Gordon

        Thousands are unemployed because 70% of GM vehicles are manufactured outside the USA and China owns a sizable portion of GM and has free access to all it technology. This arrangement was made over a decade ago. China owns the USA and we are just worker bees.

      • Charles Blume

        CEO”s paying them selves 380 times as much as their front line workers on average at U.S based companies are doing more damage than any union worker contract could ever do . They accuse the unions of greed to deflect attention from the T-Rex dump truck loads of cash the executive classes are strip mining out of the economy.

      • http://teamlaw.org Jazzabelle

        Robert Smith wrote: “What do YOU feel is a fair wage?”

        It would make more sense if you emphasized it this way: “What do you feel is a FAIR wage?”

        And the answer, of course, is that it doesn’t matter what I feel a fair wage is. Fair wages are determined by unregulated markets. Nobody can do a better job, certainly not you.

      • BigBadJohn

        Charles – right on the money.

        Everyone squawks about a workers pension which they earned after working all of thier lives for, but what about the CEO’s pay?
        I guess most people buy into the idea that connected MBA’s are a privileged class worth a whole lot more then the people who actually work.

        The average CEO pay of companies in the S&P 500 Index rose to $12.94 million in 2011. Overall, the average level of CEO pay in the S&P 500 Index increased 13.9 percent in 2011, following a 22.8 percent increase in CEO pay in 2010.

        How many jobs/retirements does 13 million a year equal? Do you honestly think these guys are worth sending jobs over sea’s so they can make this obscene amount?

      • MAP

        You’ll notice that the nutcase liberals once more attempt to transfer the topic to their chosen arena. The topic is PUBLIC workers, those that work for OUR taxes. These fruitcakes want to change the topic because the Democrats’ stand is absurd in the extreme. The pay and benefits of government workers effects us all. The more they make, the more from us they take. Why don’t you ignoramuses send the government all your pay and just leave the rest of us alone? Oh, that’s right – most Democrats are on the dole. I forgot. Our money means nothing to these free-loaders.

      • GALT

        Robert, I believe you missed the point………..if you understand what was written, it should explain what the “numbers” will be……..after all we can’t have the “race of the working man” dying out, can we?

      • BigBadJohn

        Map – I have no idea how old you are. Public jobs used to be a lot lower paying than private sector jobs. The only way most people could be convinced to stay was with the promise of a pension. However, since 2000 private sector worker salaries have been going backwards while public sector stayed the same. So now those public employees actually make more than private sector jobs.
        Should they suffer along with the rest of the population – sure. But who is to blame for all of those private sector jobs being sent to China? The worker or the CEO that thinks he deserves 13 million dollars?

        The obvious question is, do you believe that the top 1% is better than you and should be given a 13% raises while the average worker goes backward or is laid off? ? Or should they also have to suffer along with everyone else?

      • MAP

        LittleJohn, this topic is NOT on private sector jobs. It’s about robbing me, the taxpayer, to enrich government workers and the predatory unions of those workers. Big government, big taxes, big regulations, big government workforce, big controlls: the Democrtatic Party is for parasites and idiots.

      • GALT

        Well then MAP why are you paying taxes, they’re are after all “unconstitutional”, and by paying them, YOU ARE VIOLATING THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND.

        If you weren’t paying them, you’d have nothing to complain about…… so once again, you require someone else to solve your problem and SAVE YOU.

      • http://teamlaw.org Jazzabelle

        GALT wrote: “MAP why are you paying taxes, they’re are after all “unconstitutional”, and by paying them, YOU ARE VIOLATING THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND”

        Silly GALT. It’s not a violation of the Constitution for someone to give away their money if they so choose. Paying taxes is voluntary. What’s unconstitutional is for the “government” to require a “natural person” to pay an income tax. Remember, the Constitution was written to govern the “government” … not us.

      • DaveH

        Robert asks — “What do YOU feel is a fair wage”.
        That’s the problem, Robert. There is no such thing. A wage rate should be the decision of the two parties involved — The party who is offering to pay for the work, and the party who is offering to perform the work. Anybody else who gets involved is simply forming a coercive gang to extort money from the wage payer.
        In Free Markets the jobs which were in demand, and difficult or otherwise unappealing to others, would fetch the higher wages, and those Not in demand, or easy and appealing to many people, would fetch the lower wages. Otherwise, if wages were based on Liberals ideas of “fairness” everybody would seek the desirable jobs and the undesirable jobs would go unfilled, which of course would lead to greatly diminished production and fewer goods and services for the people to purchase, in other words a Bad Economy.

      • Robert Smith

        Gordon says: “China owns the USA and we are just worker bees.”

        Another Nixon “accomplishment.” He is the one who opened China to American business, oops it’s worked out that it’s American business to China.

        And folks keep saying that Republicans know how to make America rich? Well… The 1% are MUCH richer while the rest of us are sucked dry.

        Rob

      • BigBadJohn

        Map, If it is all about government employees stealing your tax dollars, you must love Obama. He has cut the government workforce by 600,000.

        just take a look at this chart of who grew the size of government.
        http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/06/01/493849/obama-bush-jobs-record/

      • ohoh

        Yeah, that’s it…Nixon did it! Couldn’t possibly have been they way the pols on both sides of the aisle handled that opportunity or anything else over the nearly half century since then.

      • GALT

        But Jazzabelle, that doesn’t give anyone, including MAP the right to complain does it…..
        he is choosing to pay, as is everyone else………..so, did YOU have a point?

        26 CFR 31.3402 (p)

    • eddie47d

      Union salaries are a drop in the bucket compared to the huge incomes that upper management makes. That is where the hemorrhaging is taking place and CEO salaries have increased 7-15% over the last 4 years while Americans lost their jobs. I still haven’t seen where any of these CEO’s have earned their bonuses and golden parachutes. When those on the right (MAP) start awaking to the real truths maybe then this country can get a grip on reality. Stop attacking the Middle Class workers as the enemy while the top dogs devour the assets.

    • Deerinwater

      Hmm? So your “Plunder” is better then my “Plunder? LOL!

      Understand , personally I don’t really care or could I be be found invested in one over the other other then the position I hold as a Tradesman/ business owner.

      But from a worker bee’s stand point, any bee that experiences a devaluation and cut in wages will directly and indirectly affect me in the private sector. That one consumer, one customer that has “less” to operate on affects me.

      The case was presented that public workers were being over paid and a burden to tax payers and directly increasing the over all cost of government.

      I find that hard to disagree with but at the same time, this is money that circulates around largely on some “local level” , permitting the local community to enjoy the liquidity of the dollar.

      Now, you introduce some CEO or some Mitt Romney into this flow of cash, you lose a lot of control over that dollar. It might go to the Cayman Islands or be placed in some locked up account drawing 2 1/2% for the next 15 years, never to be see again.

      Clearly these Cheese Heads are better with cows then they are with money matters or selecting quality statesmanship to act in their stead and serve their states economic interest. As we seen, Walker committed funds he did not have to projects that were not presented to the people in a time of budget short fall while demanding the states public worker to pay for these project that he didn’t bother to even sell, but acted as an Emperor and not to be questioned with his decision to spend Public Money.

      Yes, Mr. Root you are correct, this defeat is significant and not just for public workers but all labor across the nation and affecting many.

      This is actually but one of many battles in the war to advance the GOP and corporate interest and defund the DNC. They want a labor force living in grass huts with a dirt floor and be walking around barefooted and willing to show up for work and be happy they just a job unlike some of their friends

      I would be celebrating today if the GOP offered us some kind of winning track record defending the rights and position of the common man, the worker bees. But since that record simply does not exist but in the telling of how Reagan set the stage for Clintons economy ( which has some merit) as it stands to reason if you dam a river, you create surplus that can be released at a later time.

      But I withhold any celebration for now and look on it mild disbelief.

      • Jim

        So the Government takes (by force) money from the private sector in the form of over taxation in order to pay for public union workers so they can afford to hire you to do work for them. Meanwhile the private citizen who would have been able to provide you a living doing the same service cannot because the government stole his/her money to give to someone else. What kind of logic is this, do you take us all for fools! The reason you lose the argument is that money had to be Earned by someone in the private sector FIRST, taken by force (our Government), and given to someone else to make this tomfoolery work! It’s all arss backwards, think man!

      • eddie47d

        You are implying too much Jim and that someone in the private sector could do a better job at a lower cost (and at a living wage). My brothers daughter just graduated from nursing school and got a job (good for her) at $37 dollars an hour and that will go up rapidly. That means the private sector IS paying big bucks at a non union hospital. So those who imply that unions are the cause of all their woes are sadly mistaken. Healthcare costs will rise quickly whether government is involved or not or even unions for that matter.

      • Liberterian

        You make an excellant argument. Good to know that at least someone understands economics.

      • Deerinwater

        Point made Jim, but equally inside down if you believe you can remove any government from this equation and somehow things might improve in La La Land.

        This attempt to separate yourself under some illusion of autonomy, an agent unto yourself is but a right wing pipe dream unless your name might be Jeremiah Johnson.

        That you wishing to deny all that offends is understandable but futile none the less.

        The point has yet been made that gross “over paid” has taken place, as we attempt to compare to the grossly underpaid that has been documented and proven time and again.

        This attempt to move farther to the “right” by moving the center is impressively cleaver, I must confess, but as to the matter of wages , just how far below the poverty line are you willing to go? Have you not heard, ” as you do to the least among you, you do also to me”

        The suggestion of some stealing taking place would be best focused toward Corporate Board rooms and country club back nine and Wall Street Banksters where stealing is taking place by the Box Car load of a wholesale level rather then focusing on a few pencils and staplers coming up missing from supply.

        I don’t enjoy high local taxes anymore then you might, but taxes has been with mankind since he started crafting dwellings and making babies. It could be a rabbit, a pelt, a basket of fruit, something shiny or a weeks hunt to bring down a huge beast.

        But Taxes are not going away nor are they to become less, ~ The point of contention that is truly before us is ~ who directs the spending of tax money and how it to be spent.

        You would prefer your people while I might prefer mine.

        Walker has never being forthcoming with any details regarding his spending, If Walker had worked harder selling his proposal and not shown this disingenuous attempt to cloak his intending, he could have avoiding much of his opposition and the time and money wasted for his state. While we know he attempted to loaded his staff with less the qualified, yet greatly over paid persons In so doing, he failed to set much in the way of some example of what he wished on the rest of the states employees. That he didn’t get away with it, does not negate the fact that he tried and indicative to Walker’s nature. Morals, rules and any notions of fair play are for “other people”.

      • Waldomountainman

        Deerinwater been standing in water too long, need to get out before no breathe anymore.
        Already brain not enough oxygen to think clearly, been in union too long.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        Why do we need unions? I’ve worked in the construction field all my life ever since helping my old man as a young teen installing sewer pipe and septic fields. He was a back-hoe operator most of his life. If I would’ve told him that in the 21st century a person starting out at McDonalds would make more money and have better benies than your average construction laborer, he would ‘ve told me that I’d better quit smokin’ that sh!T!!! You get what you pay for folks!

      • Barefoot

        Wages is NOT what this is about! Tax paid retirement is. Paying a firefighter 100% of his salary PLUS bonuses to do nothing for the rest of his life STARTING AROUND THE AGE OF 50 is unsustainable! Starting around the age of 20 (some as early as 18), a firefighter is told if he puts in 30 years he can retire with full benefits.how many of you here posting, both democrat or republican sees a pro lem with this? And how many has a sweet deal like this? Man I’d take it in a heartbeat. Problem is someone has to take my place as I head to live in the keys. So by the time all is said and done, taxes have to go up to support the shear number of young retirees that may not even live in WI anymore

        • Deerinwater

          ” Paying a firefighter 100% of his salary PLUS bonuses to do nothing for the rest of his life STARTING AROUND THE AGE OF 50 is unsustainable! ”

          An excellent argument Barefoot, ~ now support your claim.

      • MAP

        Deerintrouble, I want to spend my OWN money. How ’bout that for a complicated argument. And I don’t need some nutcase liberal helping me to decide what to spend it on. Why don’t you send all your pay to the government? Maybe you could even take on another job or two to increase your contribution. What a nutcase like you does with your money is none of my business. But my money is my own. I don’t need the likes of you deciding what to do with it. Play free with your own and leave me alone. I know that’s asking alot from a busy-body, dictating, Stalin-wannabe liberal.

        • Deerinwater

          “And I don’t need some nutcase liberal helping me to decide what to spend it on.”

          I think George spent a lot of your money, he just didn’t send you the bill, allowing someone else too.

          How that for a reality check? Did you think it was going to be free? ~ or that maybe Dick would find a way to tap Iraq’s oil reserves and funnel cash back into the US economy for our trouble? Mmm? Well if that did happen, I haven’t seen a royalty check from any of those wells yet.

          Your Federal taxes today are as low today as they have ever been , you don’t have an argument to defend. I guess you want a free ride, ~ some kind of birth right, that you was born is proof enough of your righteous status and position and owe no one nothing or to the nation that sired and protected you. If I pay taxes and fight our wars, deferring matters of right or wrong to leadership, you can too. I don’t like it so much either but willing to man up and deal with it.

          Of course they don’t ask us old men to fight, they ask us when we are young. We old men now have the job to protect the young ones from leadership’s abuse. ~ as best we can.

      • Liberterian

        It is good to hear someone speak with a knowledge of economics. As an electorate we need to quit following the talking points of parties. We need fresh blood, the third party that everyone says is only an imagination. We need the one individual that does not owe everything to party ideology and structure, to lobbyists and powerful interest groups.

    • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

      Like a school of sharks who start chomping on one another once all the prey is devoured! CHOMP CHOMP!!!

    • Bud Tugly

      It is true that many unions have overstepped their bounds, but it is also true that unions have been a key factor in creating and maintaining the middle class. Ask coal miners and child textile workers what their lives were like before the unions. Some have said that public sector workers are over paid… what about CEOs making 380 times a workers pay… and their retirement packages are stratospheric.

      This vilifying unions is only partially justified.

    • Stuart Shepherd

      Jazzabelle- What???????? What the hell is a “natural person” other than a PERSON?!!! You mean “citizen,” of course, but exactly how is paying taxes voluntary?!! I can’t understand how you could even make that claim?! Unsarcastically, you seem intelligent. Could you clarify?

  • Rasta

    The fact that they had a recall election speaks volumes!

    • MAP

      You are right. It speaks volumes about the crying, whiney, childish liberals that refuse to see defeat.

    • Robert Smith

      I think the reason the recall failed is because a recall should be for criminal stuff, not policy stuff. That’s what regular elections are for.

      The fact that it was so close shows just how bad the policy was.

      Rob

      • Sanders

        So close? I wouldn’t call 10 percentage points close, especially given Gov Walker won by a greater margin in the recall than he did in the general election. As well as the fact that Wisconsin is heavily laden with public and private sector unions and you can bet just about every union member got out and voted.

      • Power To The People

        RS….what post were you seeing….”so close”? It is a heavily leaning demo state and the recall lost by 10 points…that is not close dude. They lost because sensible people said enough of the public unions ripping them off!

      • JeffH

        Sanders, Walker did not win by a 10% margine, it was only 6.8%, but the results do confirm your point…it wasn’t even close.

      • Viet Nam Vet 67-68

        Whose Policy?????

    • n2woods

      Every year each party can choose to make recall elections. They have enough supporters to do it each year. It really isn’t that big of a deal. The election results prove that the recall was made only by the party and not by the people of Wisconsin.

    • Shane

      I agree totally with your commment, Rasta. The fact that the recall occurred the way it did speaks volumes. Shameful example of the criminal aspects of the public sector unions, and their lack of personal integrity. Shameful!

      • Power To The People

        Totally…..

      • eddie47d

        Wages whether union or non union are negotiated fair and square. You either accept the salary or move on to a better job. If a company has lousy management or poor benefits who wants to work there? You think people at Walmart are thrilled about their job or only work at those wages because there isn’t much else out there? Calling workers who earned a better living wage shameful is shameful in it’s self. In other words you want to take away from someone else who happen to get a better deal by working in a union shop . That says volumes about your integrity and your desire to have have what they have even though they earned those wages. Maybe you have a poor job and want to destroy their income and force them down to your level.

    • Jim

      The fact that those who initiated the recall lost their shirts and all the shirts of those still paying union dues for this debacle. Oh, and don’t forget about the millions of non union tax payer dollars that had to be spent to accommodate this tomfoolery. Normally I would say someone should go to jail, but why would anyone want to through good money after bad. Honestly though, I’m surprised the Wisconsin public union hasn’t taken on some law suit yet to about the recall outcome, I’m sure there is more union dues left that they hasn’t been squander yet!

    • Patriot

      Rasta, wake up, all it takes is 1 liberal judge and some signatures for a recall election. Millions of taxpayer $’s again spent for no reason, when are people like you going to be disgusted with these types of tactics. Just like our Justice Dept. suing states trying to enforce immigration laws and cleanse their voter rolls by requesting photo ID’s, billions of $’s and wasted time, for what? This is not a political problem, this is an American problem. If you cannot even recognize the problems, then you are part of it!

      • Sanders

        Right on Patriot. But I have been trying to pound this common sense into the head of my Liberal sister for years and it’s like talking to a dead horse. They just can’t hear anything if it relates to fiscal sanity.

      • Deerinwater

        “Rasta, wake up, all it takes is 1 liberal judge and some signatures for a recall election”

        540,208 signatures to be exact and a Conservative Judge will work just as well.

      • rural dweller

        Reply to Sanders liberal sister…….mental disorder

      • BigBadJohn

        Sanders,
        So what is your definition of fiscal sanity? $400 billion tax cut, increasing military spending by 300 billion, unfunded prescription drug plan for 200 billion and TWO WARS for another 400 billion?

        Quick count that is 1.3 trillion dollars – the same as Obama’s deficit……..

  • Rasta

    Why does everything WAR writes about thereaten the mythical American way of life? Too much drama!

    • http://google Mary

      WHAT? please tell us WHAT you are saying, I have read it multiple times, and it doesn’t make any sense

    • Shane

      Rasta, why are you so immature and immoral?

    • Chester

      This is a business man who hates the very idea of unions, public or private. With no unions, he can decide when to fire someone, whether there is cause or not, and whether or not anyone deserves a part of his huge increase in profits. Also, no unions, no minimum wages, so a dollar an hour may well be ten dollars a month more than he is willing to pay for full fledged carpenters and plumbers to build his houses that he figures on selling at ten to fifteen times his cost. Oh, and that dollar an hour would be earned six or seven days a week, ten to twelve hours a day. Check what miners USED to work, before unionization.

      • Sanders

        Chester, you are stuck in the 50′s and 60′s, when unions actually were a good thing, when businesses actually did do the things you ramble about. Since the large labor movement of them days, business owners learned a valuable lesson and nearly all of them pay a fair wage based on the value of their products in the market place and still leave a healthy profit to reinvest in the business and help grow the economy. Trickle down economics, it’s what capitalism is all about and is what made this country the greatest country in the world, or was anyway until our government spent us all into oblivion.

      • yt

        Back in the day unions were instrumental and played a very important part by reforming work conditions and pay structures…but today they are OUT OF CONTROL and the system is not sustainable. Come on…wake up!

      • rural dweller

        The pendulum has swung too far to the union side.
        They are now the abusers.
        It is time for reform.
        They are devouring the host.

      • Patriot

        Chester,

        We are discussing Public sector unions, who are we protecting these folks from? Maybe the government? Need to stay focused, the private unions need some reform as well, but in WI and all other parts of the nation we are trying to rein in Public Sector Unions…..got it!

      • http://gravatar.com/catman11 coalminer

        Sanders,

        They are still a good thing.Remember the West Virginian coal miners? There is no way I would work in a scab coal mines.I am a retired union coal miner.Before I become a scab,tthe shrimp have to learn to fart.

      • http://gravatar.com/catman11 coalminer

        yt,

        Do you remeber the West Virginian Coal Mines? They are still a good thing.

  • Steve E

    It’s good the see the public employee unions being destroyed. They are getting what they deserve.

    • Robert Smith

      So, what will you do to support your local fire department?

      Rob

      • n2woods

        Straw man argument. So what Robert, what is your point? No one is suggesting the removal of fire departments from our cities.

        Unions are supposed to be for the workers, not another high salaried organization that exploits the workers, which they have become.

      • Shane

        So Robert Smith, you going to take in my mother in your spare room, as she is unable to pay the proposed additional property tax assessments. Along with not being able to afford your goceries due to the COA (the true cost of living) increases as a result of the devaluation of the dollar as a result of too much debt and too muct money creation without the backup of real servies.

        Robert Smith, while I realize you’re not as smart as you think, by a New York mile. You’re main problem is your personal dishonesty.

        Robert, how much should my friend with a small business get to keep after risking everything he saved, and the long hours worked to plan, start and run a business with tax after tax, assessment after assessment.

        But please Robert, don’t get mad. Don’t stop commenting.

        For more will be changed in a postive way, than negative in the long run by your reasoning. It a small way, it’s enjoyable observing those like you, consistently talk out of your ignorance or malice.

      • Power To The People

        No problem, ours is all volunteer!! We donate to the cause. I am not strapped to pay someone else’ retirement. Still trying to figure how to get others to pay my bills. You a taker RS??

      • Steve E

        We do exactly what we do right now. We have no public unions in my state. We have no budget problems so all of our firefighters, both volunteer and employed are doing just fine.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Fire departments would be paid by the towns and cities that contract them. The money would not go to the unionmeisters who have no part in the work.

      • Sanders

        Steve, I’m curious. What state do you live in? This is the state I would like Michigan to emulate.

      • Steve E

        Sanders, I live in VA

    • http://gravatar.com/catman11 coalminer

      SteveE

      Nov 14, 2011 … Organized labor was the enemy of the robber barons then and is again today— even though the most productive time in our nation’s history was …
      http://politicsorpoppycock.com/2011/11/14/return-of-the-robber-barons/

  • Sanders

    Excellent post Wayne, as usual, you couldn’t be more right. Actually, Gov Walker didn’t go as far as he should have. The public sector union benefits in his state are still considerably better than most private sector benefits will ever be. Nobody can argue that a large percentage of these thugs have cushy jobs as well. Everytime I drive by a city or county road repair crew their is at least 2 people doing a job that 1 could do and more often than not only 1 of them are working and at a lethargic pace.

    “The fact they had a recall election speaks volumes”. It sure does. And the fact the Gov Walker won with an even larger margin than he did in the general elections speaks even greater volumes. The private sector has spoken and we won’t be silenced until this movement has reached all “57″ states.

    The recall DEMONstrates just how much the unions want to put a stop to the bleeding of their overly bloated benefits packages that is playing a large part of bankrupting this country. All public sector jobs in all levels of government need to be paired back to something much closer to what the private sector would pay for similar jobs.

  • http://lghalt.org Greg

    One of the most egregious ripoffs of the public treasury is thanks to the giant NYS Teachers’ Union (NYSUT). The taxpayers of NYS are like Detroit: the victims of a union which did its job for its members Very Well; so well that this NYSUT parasite is killing its host, the NYS taxpayers.

    Credit to Cuomo Administration, amazingly this Dem has tried to trim the union’s excesses via a 2% property tax cap which has started to shine the light on the issue.

    See links from http://lghalt.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21&Itemid=71

    • Sanders

      Greg, WOW! It looks like NY is the next state who’s public sector unions need to be brought back to reality. I would say, “I want in!”, but in doing so would lower myself to the level of the thugs that are already there. No thanks. And Cuomo, I’d never thunk he would be thinking about being fiscally responsible.

    • Jim

      Cuomo needs to grow a large pair of stones and quick. His yearly tax cap, followed by a yearly tax cap increase is smoke and mirrors. NYS’s 10 Billion debt, and nearly 5 times that in public union liabilities is a death nail to this liberal state. Now he wants to steal the gaming industry from the sovereign nations, essentially declaring war by shredding the treaties that have been in effect for hundreds of years. But that’s small stuff, the real issue is that Cuomo sniffs around but can’t find the sh-t that’s piling up in the pit of this state, NYC. Cuomo if your listening, your time as Governor is winding down not up, better pull a Walker or your goose is cooked come re-election time. And this time you won’t be going up against a bunch of lunatics either, this I can guarantee!

  • chaslie

    “Government employee pensions will threaten the American dream and wipe away our quality of life.” Really? So, in order to save the American dream we have to take away government employees’ pensions which will result in what; wiping away their quality of life.

    It wasn’t that long ago that private corporations used to give pensions to their employees as well. Then to save costs they snookered employees into the 401K idea and everything was fine till the economy went south.

    Truth be told, benefits for non-government employees have been eroding now for years and the only reason non-government employees want government employees to suffer too is because misery loves company.

    We are like sheep people. The globalists are engineering all of this and using human nature against us. It is a race to the bottom.

    • Power To The People

      Good points…..the private sector is racing towards the elimination of pensions. In many ways they have to due to the burden of people living longer. I am not opposed to pensions…as long as they are reasonable. Case in point is GM….they have approx. $46B in pension obligations. They will be bankrupt again in a few years as the bailout did nothing to reduce the burden in any way. The lies Obummer tells about working with the unions and the company to lessen the strain is all hog wash.

      We must all face the fact that self reliance is more important than ever and rightfully so. Be wary of the feds temptation to steal from the private 401k plans. Other countries have done so and we are fast sinking into financial anarchy.

    • Jim

      chaslie, the government has sucking the money out of the private sector for 4 decades, were you just born, or are you stupid! The private sector is constantly scrambling to provide its employees some form of benefits even though the government takes nearly half of everything they make, where’s is your head at! The forced taxation (extortion) by Fed, State, and Local taxing government has stripped the private citizen of the same wealth as its businesses, that which was earned not given to them. For decades now the productive has been paying for the non-productive and now we have reached the end, time to put the genie back in the bottle for a few decades while us adults fix this mess.

      • chaslie

        Excuse me but government employees pay the same taxes as private-sector employees do. I’m not saying the government isn’t at fault just as much as the globalist capitalist. In fact, they are in bed together. It’s all about power and the working class (whether government or private) are the pawns in the game.

      • Deerinwater

        “chaslie says:
        June 14, 2012 at 10:13 am
        Excuse me but government employees pay the same taxes as private-sector employees do. I’m not saying the government isn’t at fault just as much as the globalist capitalist.”

        Watch out chaslie! They don’t like to hear that kind of thinking here, they will call you a heretic !

        To speak unfavorably of the top 1 % is seen in poor taste and founded it envy, for after all , they pay more taxes as they make more.

        But as we see, this same reasoning does not apply to plain working people that do tasks.

        As you have clearly pointed out , if someone make more, they pay more in taxes as do the top 1% , while we see they refusing to offered this same respect or consideration to labor.

        It is these contractions in their reasoning that I find it impossible to support the right wing agenda . Life is not seen as a two way street for them but their way or no way with they nose up a rich mans butt.

        An endless victims story of woe rooted in hypocrisy with a narcissistic spin in their search for retribution to even the score while they defend the wealthy under some strange notion that the wealthy are unable to defend themselves and needs their help! Thinking maybe he will pat them on the head I suppose.

    • Sanders

      Chaslie, I am a private sector employee, but i havent a thing against my public sector brethren. But you seem to have blinders on to the facts. The fact that the taxes the private sector has to pay, that includes taxes paid from private sector businesses, to pay for your bloated compensation package is the reason private sector businesses are no longer able to offer retirement packages and decent health care benefits. All we, the private sector, ask is that public sector employees pay their fair share as we have to. I can understand why you want to protect what you have, it sure makes your life much easier doesnt it?

      • chaslie

        Government employees pay the same taxes as private-sector employees do. So, how do you determnine a person’s fair share? Are CEOs who make tens or hundreds of millions of dollars and get unbelievable severance packages paying their fair share? What about pro-sport athletes, or actors who make tens of millions of dollars? Do they work more or is their work worth more some how? I’ve got news for you, everyone is trying to make their life easier or better by making more money and having good benefits. Why is it wrong for government employees to try to do the same? If anything, you should be angry at the politicians made deals they couldn’t keep. The funny thing is this idea that govenrment employees are somehow the cause of the economic woes today wouldn’t even be on people’s radar if the economy was doing fine.

      • rural dweller

        The fact is most everyone is trying to live above their
        means to begin with.
        This creates a huge burden on everyone.
        A business owner can see both sides of the union issue.
        A non business owner can only see one side and has
        a narrow view of the issue.

      • Sanders

        Chaslie, Did you not listen to Mr. Root? He was correct when he said the relatively few, when compared to 21 million government employees, extremely high paid executives are paid from profits of the private sector companies. Now take 21 million gov employees and multiply that # by the extra amount of their exhorbitant benefits package. The number is mind boggling. Pro sports athletes and actors, again, all get paid through the private sector. All the private sector businesses generate wealth so they can pay these exhorbitant wages and benefits, legally, whereas gov does not generate any wealth, they only take from the tax payers and spend as they see fit. The unions are no different than the gov, they take from you to spend as they see fit. Yea, the unions do work to get you these huge bloated compensations packages but its not taking anything out of their pockets.

      • chaslie

        Sanders, sounds like you’ve been listening to Rush too much about how only private businesses generate wealth. Government employees buy food, clothing, cars, etc from private businesses just like private-sector employees do so the money is still circulating throughout the economy.

        There is a lot of misrepresentation out there in the media. For one thing, most government employees do not make as much as someone in the private sector doing the same job. Perhaps in states where government unions are allowed they do but as a government employee in a right-to-work state I sure know they don’t.

        By the way, what about these big companies who make their money from the government by producing military aircraft, weapons, etc? Aren’t they just sucking taxpayer dollars away from the private sector too? And wouldn’t that make their employees the same as government employees?

        For a fresh perspective on how the economy really works you might want to take a look at http://neweconomicperspectives.org/p/about.html

      • chaslie

        Sanders, sounds like you have been listening to Rush too much about only private businesses generating wealth. Government employees buy food, shelter, clothing, cars, etc., just like private sector employees do so the money is still circulating throughout the economy.

        If only private businesses generate wealth then what about private businesses that make their money from the government by producing aircraft or weapons? Does that mean they are not generating wealth and does that make their employees in effect government employees?

        Perhaps states that allow unions pay their employees more than private employees doing the same job in the private sector but as a government employee in a right-to-work state I sure know they don’t. In fact, it is usually less.

      • Sanders

        Chaslie, talking to you is just like talking to my brain dead Liberal sister. It’s useless because you don’t understand economics nearly as well as you think you do. In order for the government to pay for the weapons and anything else they wish from the private sector they must first STEAL the money from the tax payer. They’ve not made a anything to sell to a market that desires their product to EARN the money they just stole from We the People. Economics 101, take the class, learn something.

      • Robert Smith

        From casile: “What about pro-sport athletes, or actors who make tens of millions of dollars? Do they work more or is their work worth more some how? ”

        There are over 300,000,000 people in America.

        Do you enjoy the Super Bowl? Let’s see… The participants get what??? $100,000,000 maybe? That seems like a bit of a fat number but it does make the point.

        There are estimates that 111.3 million viewers were watching. That means for the ENTIRE show, players, commercials, half time entertainment, etc. your indirect “cost” was less than $1.00. That number is slightly flexible if you tease out the cost of cable, your set, the electricity you use for it, etc. but it easily demonstrates that the cost to YOU for about 5 hours of entertainment was a buck.

        Rob

      • Deerinwater

        Sanders says:
        June 14, 2012 at 1:32 pm
        Chaslie, talking to you is just like talking to my brain dead Liberal sister. It’s useless because you don’t understand economics nearly as well as you think you do.”

        Between you and your sister, she’s clearly the brighter of the two.

        You are unable to make your point because you entertain flawed reasoning by ignoring or discounting facts as they fail to serve your argument. The frustration comes when your sister and Chaslie offer you a sound rebuttal based on the merits and weight of the facts.

        If I were you ~ I’d just call them unflattering names and change the subject ~ or contest their facts.

  • Mis

    The American taxpayers have lost a majority of their savings, retirement and pension plans……social security and medicare are going broke but those who are working or have worked for government have lost nothing. It’s time to shore up the score and share the losses

    • eddie47d

      Mis says,Then you really need to go after those in upper management or those on Wall Street who squanders our economy and made off like bandits while the regular workforce lost income. They defunded those pensions and weakened our savings so when are they gonna “share the losses”. The fact that these Elites are not going to jail shows us that they have won and they will continue to weaken the American worker.

    • chaslie

      Before unions came along the industrial capitalists (otherwise known as robber barons, tycoons, etc) exploited the working class. Working conditions were awful with long hours and low pay, and no benefits. It wasn’t until people go fed up and through unions started demanding better pay and working conditions that things improved. The pendulum is now swinging back. The irony today is industrial capitalists are exploiting the very same class of people in getting them to voluntarily give away all their benefits. I guess it’s true that history is repeats itself.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Was that the textbook subject you had to read? So that is all you know from history.

      • Dale on the left coast

        Today’s “Robber Barons” are folks like Stearns and Trumka . . . who take 10′s of millions in dues and use them to create political advantages for themselves. The Teamsters are so far in debt they will never get out.
        And look at the towns and cities that are declaring bankruptcy today that can no longer pay the pensions of already retired members . . . how much pension will you get from a bankrupt city? I know that one . . . NONE ! ! !

      • eddie47d

        How much more will Dale be taking from someone elses paycheck. How much is HE will to give up?

      • http://gravatar.com/catman11 coalminer

        You are right,chaslie.

      • Deerinwater

        “You are right,chaslie.”

        Yes she is.

        This is only one battle in a long war, the battle lines drawn long ago, ~ Ring Wingers side with BIG MONEY and against “LaboR” . ~ It does not really matter who’s money as long as it BIG enough to attract the “hanger-on” interest and attention.

        The have no regard for labor ( much less organized labor) while telling you otherwise.

        These are the same people that find it necessary to defend GOD, thinking that perhaps he’s/she’s unable I suppose.

        It’s an affliction rooted in the mind, much like being fairy, we can try to understand how it occurs and look for some reasons for it, while in the end, it doesn’t really matter. They are the way they are and these no changing it.

  • KG

    This actually started with Regan. By selling off our manufacturing base to the lowest bidder, we destroyed most of the “middle class” jobs in the private sector. As a result, many people considered working for the Government. Remember, back then, you typical government job paid much less than a comparable private sector job. So, the people who organized these workers were able to get better wages and benefits. Now, people in the private sector are JEALOUS of the government workers. I think that guy Mr. Root makes fun of has a legitimate point. If the people in the private sector would organize and demand better wages, then they could benefit as much as the government employes. However, you couldn’t take personal credit for your success. You would have to acknowledge that someone else helped you. And that destroys the “rugged individualist” myth that runs in America. America Isn’t great because of individuals, America is great because of ALL Americans. We are not the “Individual states of America,” we are “The UNITED states of America” Hey, Americas been union since the beginning!

    Solidarity Forever!

    • Michael J.

      KG says,
      “Now, people in the private sector are JEALOUS of the government workers.”

      No, my collectivist comrade friend, we are not jealous. We are tired of footing the bill for unsustainable Union abuses.

      • KG

        HA HA YOU ARE JEALOUS!!!!

    • Dale on the left coast

      JG , , , The exodus of American business started long before Regan . . . the EPA in the 70′s chased the steel industry out of the US, High Taxes, Union Demands, Over-regulation and more recently the Enviro-loons have de-industrialized America.
      Your line of thinking is Borderline Stooopid . . . but a typical lieberal talking-point.
      Nobody has done more to damage Private Industry in America than the present occupant of the WH . . . his understanding of Economics is less than Elementary ! ! !
      Remember . . . according the the Bamster . . . the Private Sector is doing FINE ! ! !

      • Patriot

        Again these leftist’s do not have any substance, basically all lies or revisionist history! What they fail to understand is that many of us are trying to fix the system before it is too late and it might be right now. We know if we fix the system that there will be much less suffering than if we let it collapse, because God help us all if that happens!

        • Deerinwater

          “. the EPA in the 70′s chased the steel industry out of the US, High Taxes, Union Demands, Over-regulation and more recently the Enviro-loons have de-industrialized America. ”

          American Steel was a victim of many things, things that they could have addressed but elected not to. During the post wars years, profits soared as Europe and Japan rebuilt while they did little to invest back into their Industry with half hearted sense of complacency. Like “we don’t want to do this anymore”, the failure to invest in upgrading their technology , they lost efficiency and markets to those nations that did, as you claim that we asked too much of them to be a responsible industry.

          They took their money and ran ~went into women apparel and Shamwow while you blame mean old government.

          American Industrial business has been spoiled rotten with 40 years of bloated profits and to fat to “want to work” anymore. They rather go exploit and destroy other less knowledgeable people in other nation for 40 more years. Face the facts, there is other places to go beside here in the US or Europe.

          The only loyalty that exist is to the Dollar and how fast it might be done.

    • http://gravatar.com/catman11 coalminer

      KG,

      Right on.I couldn’t said it any better.

  • Glenn

    Let’s see, I have read the Union Bosses have $362. Billion dollars. Obama wants $50 billion additional taxpayers dollars for police,teachers, firefighters. Now if the Unions want to give more to these groups get off of the $362 Billion and give it to your workers, instead of buying senate seats,congressional seats, governers seats.

    • Sanders

      Hey, what a great idea. Let the fat bloated unions pay for Obummers dreams.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

    I did not listern to Wayne’s video but going on his statement i agree with entirely, as in Australia the Public Services and politicians Superannuations Schemes are so generous that as a defined benefit of 7 times final salary is unfunded and…guess who pays…the taxpayer. So what did our conservative government do a few years ago to try cover the contingent liabilities of several $billion?

    To show how clever they were then.led by our great Treasuer Peter Costello of our Federal Government at that time…they sold off our largest most profitable government owned TELECOM CORPORATION [now renamed as TELSTRA CORPORATION] over a period of a few years because it was such a huge $multi billion offer it had to be sold in tranches over about 4 years or so. It was a great success and sold for prices well above current prices…so it was a clever move purely on Liberterian ideals govt should not operate businesses anyway…now to be fair to the Liberal Party some of the $billions were used to retire government Debt to NIL. YES NIL.There were no government bonds left except some non redeemable low coupon bonds not worth buying back. The sale proceeds were put in a FUTURES FUND to cover the hugely unfunded Government pension schemes. the money to be invested using bright spark investment managers who invest in companies in the USA like INTEL & FACEBOOK I bet…and under convential wisdom the fund will grow they say to be able to save the Treasury the future cost of these huge government funded pensions. Off course they also sold off our QANTAS Airline just in time, the Commonwealth Bank now worth ten times more…bad move.

    in the meantime about the same time as our bright sparks where selling Telstra, QANTAS, COMMONWEALTH BANK…our other Local Government Super Funds had used your bright sparks at LEHMANN BROS to invest their retirement monies into the Sub-Prime Mortgage Funds and subsequently lost several $BILLION in your own USA.

    Now while our and your bright sparkes in Merchant banks are gambling money in foriegn lands …the ASIANS being rather smarter than all of us put together have been buying up huge tracts of Australian & USA farmlands, because our people cant and wont afford investing in our own countries.

    So never ever let me hear from you people complaining like they do in Australia that foriegners or Chinese are buying our lands because if we wanted to keep our land in our countrymens ownership these bright sparks would invest locally, yet they in there infinite University Educated Wisdom say its better invested in financial assets abroad to spread the risks and because they say history shows the Indices ALWAYS go up over time, but dont bother to ever check the ever changing make up of the indices as groups exit through bankruptcies and the like..

    Now going back to the point of Public Servants/government workers/politicians Super Funds recipients well they cant lose, but the taxpayer can lose it all over again, because if our Futures Fund were ever to be totally lost by another GFC or MADOFF Ponzi scheme like the GREEKS have been working on……then guess who picks up the pensions tab??? You might have guested it from my rantings….us the TAXPAYERS…the modern day serfs.. THATS WHO. !!!!
    So I dont think you’ll be able to get out of your problems either as I cant imagine MITT ROMNEY reducing the benefits if he were to win.. Any ideas? OFF with their heads???

  • Iron Sharpens Iron

    Hey Galt- You asked some questions early in the comments… I’m a WI resident. Walker’s reforms have resulted in a BALANCED budget with NO tax increases. Taxes actually went down for many, myself included. Who won? Every state resident. BALANCED BUDGET. Duh. The union employees are now contributing 12% toward their health benies and I believe 5% toward their retirement packages. Is that unreasonable? What does the average private sector employee pay nowadays for such? Should we talk about the QUALITY of these packages in comparison as well? It’s about time the abuses were shut down!! Scott Walker is my hero! My bumper sticker says the same as well!

    • eddie47d

      Health care benefits costs are $500 less for private sector workers than government workers. (Those companies that do pay benefits). The big problem is that many in the private sector don’t even offer health care packages and alot of Americans just do without. When it comes to retirement government workers win by a long shot. So government workers come up short on some benefits and come out ahead on others.

  • Polski

    So, how much does Governor Walker pay for his pension? How much does he get as a pension. Unions are more necessary than they ever were before. Just ask anyone that works for Boeing. And the CEO gets $23 million a year. No one, not the highest officer, in any union gets $23 million a year. And then look at Mulally at Ford, he gets either $39 million a year, or $29 million a year, depending on the information source. Just look at all the executive bonuses, and obscene salaries. It’s the corporate executives that are the problem. NOT THE UNIONS. It’s the POLITICIANS that are the problem. NOT THE UNIONS. It’s the MEDIA, which are nothing more than corporate crooks, that are the problem. NOT THE UNIONS. If the owners and corporate executives had been reasonable, there would never have been any unions. The OWNERS AND CORPORATE EXECUTIVES HAVE NEVER BEEN REASONABLE AND THAT’S WHY UNIONS WERE FORMED.

    In all this turmoil, there have been NO cutbacks of executive salaries and bonuses, even when the company has done really badly.

    If you want to solve problems, then make some laws that Social Security covers EVERYONE, especially CONGRESS, and the money collected by paychecks for social security does NOT go into

    • rural dweller

      How many businesses have you started?
      By what you have stated my guess would be…..none!

      • Polski

        What has starting a business got to do with what I said?

      • ohoh

        It has a lot more to do with what you said than does your preoccupation with counting the other guys chips in deals in which you weren’t even a player.

        • Deerinwater

          most acceptable response

    • Michael H.

      I don’t believe the issue is about whether unions are necessary, it’s about the fact that they don’t allow the worker to choose to become a member or not become a member. Forced dues is wrong. And as noted earlier they are sitting on a boatload of money. What do they plan on using those funds for? Why, to buy politicians who will support their corrupt unions of course. I have never belonged to a union and never would have paid union dues, even if the job was only available thru a union contract. I have seen and read of their union bosses corruption for years.

      • Polski

        you want a free ride for all the benefits you have accepted that the unions got you. so YES, you should have to join a union to get those benefits. Or you’re just another leech. right to work=something for nothing/cheapskate.

      • Polski

        corruption? you’re really talking about CEOs/executives, hardly about union bosses. I really wish all of you anti-union types would have worked in Henry Ford’s place like my grandfather, like my father, and like my uncle did. None of you really know diddly about what happened, and you’re all looking for a free ride.

      • ohoh

        So the forceful imposition of alleged “free ride” benefits by this unwelcome group now entitles them to restrict liberty and dictate terms to the rest of us? Bull!

  • Michael J.

    Dear Mr. Root,
    I agree with your sentiment with regards to Public Employee Sector Unions, but they are not the real threat to our Nation’s future, but merely a symptom of Globalism. Until a solution has been formulated to contend with elitist string pullers, organizations like the aforementioned will continue to thrive and dominate under their umbrella.

    As an example of their influence and proof of their power wielding force, threats against the Paul family have been not so discretely imposed that include airplanes and Arab suicide bombers. Threats that were apparently accompanied by a concession to appoint Rand Paul Vice President in exchange for a Romney endorsement by the Kentucky Senator, and coupled with the agreement that Ron Paul will pull back. Talk about an offer you can not refuse, no one wants to contemplate waking up next to a horses head in bed, or worse.

    So in closing I would like to point out that it’s OK to nibble around the edges of a problem, but no lasting progress need be expected until someone, or some group has the cojones to get to the real meat of the issue.

    BTW, One last thought. If Obama and Romney are truly opposing figures and top contenders for the impending Kingship appointment, then why has Ron Paul ( who according to MSM hasn’t got a chance in hell of being successful) received death threats?

  • SJJolly

    Governor Walker won, yes. By a rather small margin, considering that he outspent the pro-recall forces some 6 to 1, and many Wisconsin voters voted “No” because they were opposed to recall being used for political purposes. He has to be wondering about his chances for re-election, if he continues to p.o. the pro-union people.

    • Sanders

      SJJolly, Better recheck your facts and I would suggest some place other than your obviously Liberal slanted news outlet. The ratio was much closer to 2:1. And really, what does that matter, the message was the same no matter what the cost.

      • Deerinwater

        “Walker received 53.2 percent of the vote, while Barrett brought in 46.3 percent.”

        That not exactly “two to one” is it? So maybe too, your news provider is lacking?

        There are three kinds of people in this world. Those who can count and those who can’t.

        As for the results being the same? ~ If you are willing to ignore outside states forces and and the overwhelming amount of money spent to achieve this results , your are correct. IF you are willing to believe outside forces knows best for any state and any amount of money spent unworthy consideration, I would have to disagree.

        But, being hit with a ton of lead or a ton of feathers will ruin anyone’s weekend.

      • Sanders

        DeerinWater, Do you need to take a class in reading comprehension? The 2:1 ratio is the dollar amount spent in advertising in the state, had nothing to do with votes garnered. And don’t forget those who can comprehend what they read and those who cannot. That makes 6 different kinds of people with your math. LOL

      • Sanders

        Furthermore, Deerinwater, I don’t think it matters what state the money came from as this same problem is spread across most of the states. Wisconsin just happens to be the first state with a Governor that has enough brass to go up against the thuggery. So a win here for the betterment of the country as a whole is just as good as in any other state. 1 down, 55 more to go in Obummers world, since the state of VA is not unionized.

    • Dale on the left coast

      Jolly . . . using your logic . . . O’bammy outspent McLaim buy a very large margin . . . does that make his victory Questionable? Of course we now know we elected an Empty Suit . . .
      Did you know the Unions spent over 100 million trying to defeat Walker . . . bet you didn’t count that.

  • Iron Sharpens Iron

    Any right leaning type wonders about that here. This state tends to be a cess-pool of liberalism.

  • can I leave now?

    Even my dad, who retired IBEW back in the seventies, knew then they were moving in a bad direction. And now? It seems govt. is the only safe haven. Isn’t that just something? I feel like a cow, who’se been moved into the final chute.

  • Ryan Eggers

    SJJolley made a good point about congress paying back the TRILLIONS they have raided from social security. It was not part of the general operating fund until liberal democrats changed that, it was optional until liberal democrats made it law that every one paid into it, you used to be able to claim what you paid into it on your tax return until Clinton changed that law. An amendment needs to be added to the constitution that takes social security out of the general operating fund and a ban on congress from touching it.

    • Sanders

      AMEN!

  • MizMoe

    No matter who does the work for the feds or state the costs actually are more for a private sector contractor doing the job vs the govt. Consultants get paid a heck of a lot more than normal workers. I know I was both. So make everyone pay into their plans and be done with it. Those who think the private sector would cost less are foolish because of the overhead costs that are added in up front for health care and pensions make the hourly rates much more costly. Make the govt pension plans from here on out like that of the private sector. Most of the federal govt is moving toward this direction. By the way get rid of the lawyers that sue for someone getting fired. Institute hire/fire laws in all govt jobs. I know private sector people say it is almost impossible to get rid of people because of suits brought against them, but there should be a clause in the contract that if you want to work for the govt you can’t sue for being fired. Will get rid of a lot of dead weight and get some quality people in who need to jobs.

    • Sanders

      MizMoe, “Those who think the private sector would cost less are foolish because of the overhead costs that are added in up front for health care and pensions make the hourly rates much more costly”

      Your arguement doesnt hold water. The overhead of any government is as large and most often much larger than any private sector company. This whole argument is about the bloated benefits of the public sector unions. Also, there is a lot of truth to the old saying that a hammer purchased by the government cost $50 compared to one purchased in the private sector that cost only $15. It’s because of all the requisitioning and bureaucratic hoops one must jump through in order to get the PO cut.

  • Void1972

    Galt States

    “A man must live by his work, and his wages must be at least enough to maintain him. They must even on most occasions be somewhat more: otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family and the RACE of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation.”

    Explain this to the generations of migrant workers and the generations of coal miners and hundreds of other low paying jobs!

    Work is work and many are just happy to be able to be a productive human being and feel part of something instead of those slaves that were created by an entitlement system who live such a shallow, unproductive life and create a burden upon society that enhances their uselessness!

    “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” These three aspects are listed among the “inalienable rights” or sovereign rights of man.

    “Pursuit” means how much effort you put into your life and Career and what you take out of one.

    Nothing in life should be given unless deserved!

    “Impossible to bring up a family” tell that to the welfare moms that have 6 and 7 children by 6 and 7 different fathers and explain to them that such demented behavior should have never lasted past the 60s, the “first generation”!

    Yet these people are thriving in our time and their numbers are growing every generation.

    Go figure!

    God bless America and those who fight for her!!!!

  • uvuvuv

    unions can be justified with companies because management is looking to maximize profits, and what better way than to tighten the payroll. there is an adversarial relationship at work during negotiations, but there is a mutual understanding that if the company doesn’t make it the workers lose their jobs. but the state and local governments are not bound by profit considerations, therefore their negotiations are in terms of how much to give instead of giving at all. the trouble with this model is that there is a cumulative effect, as the decades go by suddenly you have govt employees retiring at age 55 with 110% of their highest year’s pay, plus lump sum payouts for unused sick leave, unused personal days off and unused vacation. and, their health insurance continues until they get on medicare. then to top it off a dept manager will submit a request every year for 2 more workers or 3 more, whatever. this isn’t a union issue, per se, but it adds to the bulk of the problem, creating an even worse geomatric progression. but they just stick it to the taxpayers and all is well.

  • uvuvuv

    sorry, that’s geometric.

  • kategray

    They lost because people are sick and tired of their EMPLOYEES making more that most take home and with bennies they will never see. The AMERCIAN people are awake and watch out UNIONS and CONGRESS PERSONS you will be next.

  • uvuvuv

    sjolly, it isn’t true he outspent 6 to 1, it was 2 to 1, but if this was such a crucial vote why didn’t richard trumka up the ante? why didn’t the state workers also bring the expenditures up to parity? when it came to putting pen to paper the dems backed off. also there was only a small percentage who were undecided as the election closed in, everyone else had already locked their votes in and were just waiting for the polls to open. and here again, why didn’t the dems turn out enough to swing the vote the other way? you call walker’s edge a small margin but that’s the same margin clinton had over dole in 1996 and he was the incumbent president with all the advantages this brings, plus dole was a fairly lackluster opponent and miss lewinsky wasn’t even in the news yet.

  • W.T. Mahon

    Ok, everyone is against unions but I am retired California state employee with 36 years in and I am not living a high extravagant life style. When I got out of college in the 70′s I could not find a job in the private sector at all. I had a degree in Aeronautics with an A & P license to work on aircraft. All those jobs where either going to returning Vietnam veterans or minorities in California and that is a fact! I decided to try State, Federal and County jobs, which pay less but usually had good benefits. The benefits then were just a retirement package and medical, with no vision or dental. The military was my only other option but who wants to be transferred every 3 years and fight wars when it is politically correct. There were no unions at that time but we still had good benefits. When labor unions began they negotiated dental and vision coverages and provided rank and file employees an avenue to negotiate wages and file grievances when Management stepped out of line. There’s nothing wrong with that!!! The state unions never have had the power to strike as with the private sector but provided a means to negotiate with management. Throughout my 36 years of service unions were able to negotiate cost of living raises that averaged 2 to 3 percent each year. In the last 10 years I worked our salaries remained constant because medical insurance costs are out of control!! Why not look at Doctors and Nurses salaries and their benefits!!! They are untouchable as well as the drug industry but that is another debate! New retirement formulas were legislated in, in the 90′s that provided lower retirements for new employees with the option that employees must invest in 401K’s to supplement the States funded retirement to have a retirement income of around 60% of their government salary at about 25 years of service. That average salary for most employees with 25 years of service averages around $2500 a month. How does one live on that without a supplemental investment income?? The salaries of California government jobs have always been lower then the same private sector equivalent. The problem with the California’s government being in the red when it comes to a Budget is not the government employees pay or benefits it is all the people in California that do not pay any taxes for one reason or the other. Why not go after those people instead of people that are working. I have read that in California up to 30 to 40 percent of the population do not pay any income tax at all! Who are they, those on welfare, on disability, benefits for the illegal aliens and immigrants??? That is up for debate, but everyone needs to pitch in and pay some taxes even if it is just a higher sales tax in place of a state income tax! Right now the majority of taxes are paid by the middle class while the rich and poor pay none to very little!! Leave the working people alone when it comes to salaries and benefits because they are supporting those that are living on the system and living a tax free life!!

    • Sanders

      Kick the illegals out, that would be a great place to start.

    • ohoh

      I was one of those “rich” in California for 47 years before moving my family and business out of the state two years ago to escape the clutches of the regulators, Silicon Valley and San Francisco elites, green fanatics and tax grabbers. In all that time, we NEVER paid “none or very little” taxes, and neither did the other businesses or professionals we knew or worked with for years. We all paid a lot and, based on the aggregate of all taxes and fees we paid, far too much. Of course, due to the unsustainable burdens created by the public sector unions and the state’s notorious entitlement programs, it was never enough and it never would be short of an unlikely system reset. The public sector unions are both in control and out of control and they have tragically hobbled the formerly great State of California for the foreseeable future.

      • Deerinwater

        WoW! far too much reality! ~ you’ve been knee deep in the trenches, wading in blood and guts.

      • Deerinwater

        but 47 years is sweet.

  • http://YAHOO ATKA

    I HERE WHAT MOST ARE SAYING,BUT WE ARE MAINLY FOCUSING ON THE LITTLE PEOPLE .WHO WE REALLY NEED LIKE TEACHERS,FIREMEN AND POLICE. IT’S THE BIG TIME SOCIAL DRAINERS THAT ARE KILLNG US LIKE RETIRED SENATERS,CONGRESS,PREIDENTS AND VICE PRES. GENERALS AND ADMIRALS MANY WHICH NEVER PUT THERE LIFE ON THE LINE FOR OUR NATION. AVERAGE PAY FOR TEACHERS 25000-50000 ABOUT THE SAME FOR POLICE OFFICERS.SCHOOL SUPERITENDANTS 200,000-300,000 AND EVEN WORSE FOR OTHER COUNTY , STATE AND US GOV. WORKERS . HOW ABOUT THEY ALL TAKE A 50% CUT.THAT WOULD BE A START

  • Kels

    Oh dear god.
    I consider myself a moderate and always try to see both sides of an issue, but one thing I just don’t understand is union hate. Yes, they shouldn’t have too much bargaining power, yes, they should have the best interest of their workers at heart, but I don’t see how someone could just be straight up anti-union.
    Do you honestly think that a bunch of corporate CEOs sat around and said “hey, we should start treating our workers better! We should give them weekends, paid overtime, and a safe environment!” No, of course not. Unions did all that, and the big businesses fought them every step of the way. So it’s fine for you all to hate on unions; you’re all entitled to your opinions, but you have to walk the walk too. Start working 10 hour days without a lunch break, don’t take any time off, don’t sue when your unsafe conditions cause you to break a limb or two, and we’ll call it even

    • Void1972

      Kels

      Please do your own research on who created unions and see the communist influence in the beginning of the American unions and you will understand how corrupt and un-American unions really are!

      Do you homework!

      • Kels

        …communists???!!!!! Oh my god, thank you for telling me about all of this!
        This has been eye opening for me. I’m withdrawing my union membership right now, surrendering all of my union-won rights (ugh, I can barely even say the word now!) and bowing to the feet of my corporate masters like the good American patriot I am. Lest I identify myself with that unspeakable group who advocate for the distribution of wealth and the rights of the proletariat

      • http://gravatar.com/catman11 coalminer

        Wrong Void 1972,

        Unions were against trading with Communist China.Remeber Nafta ?It was Ronald( Turn Coat) Reagan and George( Scab) Bush whom made sweet heart deals with them.We are still paying for that piece of treason.

        Solidarność”, The free Trade Union of communist Poland, was born in the …. process of the peaceful overthrow of a totalitarian communist government, with …
        http://biega.com/solidarity.html

      • Michael J.

        Void 1972,
        Karl Marx was among the first to describe organized labor as a peoples movement to replace capitalism with an economic system controlled by workers.

        The works of Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx led to the formation of the first Communist International whose policies were summarized in
        The Communist Manifesto.

        So yes Kels, and of course you Coalminer, are practicing communist in the truest sense. But it’s not all your fault, effective Communist Indoctrination is judged by it’s numbers of unaware victims.

      • Eric Jones

        Void ive got a challenge for you move to and get a job in a non-union state and see for yourself how easy it is to negotiate ALL ALONE i predict you last 2 weeks before you relize your error.

      • Michael J.

        Eric Jones,
        Bolderdash!!! I have lived in a “Right to Work” state all of my 55 years and never once had a problem finding a good paying job until the “Obama-Depression” came along. 2007 and even 2008 marked a career apex for me, that is until about two months before the election when the orchestrated Fannie and Freddie colapse, the timing of which was designed by Franks and Dodd for maximum damage to the Republican Party in the Mother of all October surprises, brought the economy to a screeching halt. Combine that with the fact that American’s were awakening to their greatest nightmare, a Marxist inspired Chicago Muslim Mobster was about to be appointed to the throne, and you have the recipe for the soup that we are all simmering in.

        • Eric Jones

          Let me make something clear i didnt say you couldnt find a job i said you wouldnt be able to negotiate for better wages and the like and by-the-way without a union you could see a freind fired and any argument you put up would only result in YOU getting FIRED.

    • ohoh

      Ever try to deal with public unions in places like Wisconsin or California? That’ll disabuse you of any moderate notions when it comes to unions. As far as communist roots, there were plenty, just in shades of grey that makes denial and deflection by union apologists viable today. And that China thing is just a case of one collectivist group competing with another, So what?

  • Tired of It All!

    I’m glad the people of Wisconsin caught a break! The people that work for the city, state, or any government agency are stupid and the laziest people I have ever met. I’m tired of having to pay for them to be stupid! Where is my pension? Where is my health insurance? I’ve never been on vacation, I’ve never had the money. My taxes are more than my house payment!

  • FreedomFighter

    Maybe some day if we get control of government spending and expansion, we can all rid ourselves of “Property TAX”

    You can never own your land, home, property because of PROPERTY TAX.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • Sanders

      Right on FF! My father has nearly lost his family farm of over 110 years on 2 separate occasions now becuase of back taxes. Luckily, all 5 of his kids were working and could afford to chip in enough to pay off the back taxes on each occasion. Otherwise, the gov would’ve sold it to the highest bidder. This property was paid off over 80 yrs ago.

      • Eric Jones

        Your father lost his farm because capitillism the system of private ownership ALLOWED him to your anger is justified but misdirected.

    • 45caliber

      I agree. You are basically renting. And guess who votes to keep the property tax? Those who don’t own any of it! There was a good reason our Founding Fathers originally insisted that only those who owned property could vote.

  • chaslie

    Perhaps for a better perspective on how the economy really works look up “New Monetary Theory” on the internet. Interesting stuff.

  • chaslie

    Sorry, I meant “Modern Monetary Theory”.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1417763559 Beno

    No reform, get rid of the NEA, all government unions period, they are a rob the citizen group who don’t do a very good job to begin with. Then go after the private unions that are destroying this nation through greed, they are no longer needed. Then put term limit’s on Congress, no retirement, same health care as we can get in the private sector, pay your own flights unless govenment business and live by the bills you pass or get out, We the People are your bosses, not the other way around idiots.

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    Labor Uions Wern’t under much of Government Control ! ! ! CHANGE…Government Rules All ! ! ! From BIG BUSSINESSES To Personal Preferance!

  • Patriot

    Why do you think that the government, unions, mortgage companies want you to automatically pay or deduct from your pay or mortgage payment your taxes & dues? Because you then lose site of the fact of how much you pay and they do not want you to wake up to that fact, please Wake Up you stupid American’s before you cause us all to fall off the cliff to the abyss. btw we will fall off the cliff, it is only how far will that fall be!

    • 45caliber

      My mother was once strongly union and she wanted me to get a union job when I finished college. I asked how much union dues she paid a month. ($35) Then I asked how many people worked where she did. (About 1200) I multiplied and then asked her where the money (about $40,000 a month) was going and what good it was doing her. She couldn’t answer.

      Basically, we figured out that there were three union officals who were actually paid by that money. Once every three years they would meet the company officials in Las Vegas to make another contract. The contract would be almost exactly the same and would always be signed at midnight before the old contact expired. They spent two months in Vegas “negotiating” … at union expense.

      She decided that perhaps unions weren’t all that good after all.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1417763559 Beno

        I feel sorry for your mother, I belonged to 3 different unions on the railroad and never saw one thing they did for the worker, the only guys they helped were the drunks or those who couldn’t do their job, went I became a foreman I changed a lot of that and we ran more trains out of Denver then ever before, broke a lot of union rules and both the worker and the company were happy with the results, the only ones who really wanted the union rules were those who couldn’t or wouldn’t do the work, lazy bumbs who wanted something for doing nothing, I think I just firgured out why people become democrat’s?

        • Deerinwater

          that’s only because you were spoiled rotten , my father (in his youth) was a “Hard Knocker” for the Santa Fee, ~ what that means, you have not a clue.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jerry.morgan.378 Jerry Morgan

    I see no reason why public sector workers shouldn’t work till they’re 65, draw Social Security and go on Medicare the same as those who pay their salary.

    • 45caliber

      Jerry:

      I fully agree. That’s what they expect us to do, after all. And most of them ALSO draw SS even though they may not have worked more than a few days at it. I know that up until a couple of years ago all retiring teachers would work one day just before their official retirement as a secretary so they could be on SS for that one day. They could then draw both their government retirement and full SS. The rest of us work our full lives and are lucky to even get it.

    • ohoh

      Why? Because they “negotiated” a better deal for themselves and made the rest of us pay for it, fair and square. So what if the rest of us don’t have representation on both side of the bargaining table, that’s not their problem and we’re just schmucks who are supposed to grin and bear it. Like some say, every deal is good for somebody…just not the taxpayers in these cases.

  • http://gravatar.com/wtfaz wtfaz
  • Rebecca

    Here is an example of why large companies and their retirees are where they are today:

    Long ago U.S. Steel owned several mining companies. Employees were required to work under unsafe conditions underground for very low and unfair wages. Unions were organized to prevent this type thing and it worked well for awhile.

    By the 1970′s the Steelworkers Union had become something totally different. It was being controlled by organized criminals and was more about money for the attorneys and union officers.

    How do I know? Because I worked for a hospital that was owned by U.S. Steel and the union had become so corrupt that we (the nurses) pulled out in 1983.

    Unions are no longer for the workers safety, wages, benefits nor retirement. It’s a shame because something that was organized for good has gone corrupt.

    • 45caliber

      You nailed it. I went in to get a job once while I was in school. I needed a good job badly. The union hiring man told me that to get a job I’d have to pay $150 to the union. But he couldn’t get me a job for at least four months. I told him I needed the job right away as I needed to earn money for school and I was about to be married. He told me that if I really wanted a job, to pay him another $150 and he’d get me one right away.

      I wasn’t willing to pay a bribe to someone just to get a job and then pay the union dues (another bribe as far as I’m concerned) to continue working there. I went elsewhere.

      • Deerinwater

        Sad story, for sure 45, ~while it could read, darling, give me your sweet stuff and we will see about a job for your boy.

  • http://yahoo.com Jeffrey LaFaver

    I belong to a Public Sector Union, I don’t see where we are so much better off than those in private sector like UAW, Electrical workers, and other such unions, infact ours here in New York State, bends over backwards to give the Liberal Governors and legislature everything they want even if it screws over the membership and my co-members are such idiots they don’t realize they are getting it from both ends. I just turned in my retirement papers and will be retireing with less than $1800/month this after 37 years State service to the public who always think we make so much, and do so little for it. yet it is the public employee that makes sure your roads are kept repaired, plowed, take care of your sick, or infirmed family members, We use to take good care of the Mentally ill and Retarded in the state till Gov. Mario Cuomo decided CONVICTED CRIMINALS have more rights than they do. In NY you don’t want to have a mental breakdown or become disabled to the point of needing constant care The state will send you out on the streets and make them fend for themselves ending up in homeless shelters, and eventually arrested for stealing a piece of candy, a drink, or even perhaps a new (to them) piece of clothing. No don’t blame public employees for making a living, instead blame the Unions like the one I belong to CSEA for problems with the economy blame the Liberal leadership we have had over the past 30 plus years from Bill Clinton signing NAFTA into law. and BARACK (Oduma) OBAMA sounding like a used car salesman and telling the people that the economy is turning around and jobs are coming back to the US.. I wouldn’t call working at the Local Mall or fast food joint a good paying job with benefits.

  • http://gravatar.com/icedragonnite ICEDRAGONNITE

    Get rid of all Government Unions: They are either Socialist, Communist or just Thugs. All hold the American people in disgust and will not stop at stealing from our children.

  • http://hpmoyer@yahoo.com howie

    As a retired State of Ohio employee, I am not getting rich! My gross retirement is $17000. with 22 years of service, at age 61. OPERS is funded out to 30 years of obligations according to State Law. Health Insurance is not a contractual obligation! Lawmakers have had a pension Reform Bill on their desks since 2009, with no action?? WHY?? I also have 22 years of Social Security Credit which pays approx $8000., and medicare comes off it. So how Am I getting rich?

  • richard brooks

    if low wages are the answer, why are the ones who make the most not leading the way by accepting minimum wage for their compensation. walker and his cronies are not lowering their wages.

    if you support walkers lower wage answer, then how cheap are you willing to work.

    walker did not stop collective agreements with all of the unions. he exempted the cops and the fireman.

    you all have been played fools.

    none of these writers are going to willingly accept less for their work. the are demanding that you accept less so they can have more.

    • ohoh

      “…the are demanding that you accept less so they can have more.” When you realize the fallacy of this argument you’ll begin to understand, elevate the discussion and focus on the real issues.

      • richard brooks

        “…the are demanding that you accept less so they can have more.” When you realize the fallacy of this argument you’ll begin to understand, elevate the discussion and focus on the real issues. <<

        obviously you are unable to focus on the discussion. or the real issues. the fallacy of this issue is the belief that low wages will solve the problem(s). it is even more factitious when you understand that walker is not applying his low wage concept equally to all public union employees.

        you are simply trying to validate your position with innuendo and insinuation.

  • boyscout

    I don’t want anyone thinking that I’m just picking on public sector unions, because I’ m just picking on them first. What say we not forget about the 1% or even the 10% ? How about closing ALL the loop holes, cleaning up the lobby system, and cleaning the influence peddlers out of all levels of the temple of American Government ?

    • Deerinwater

      how about we not, and say that we did?

  • uvuvuv

    i lived right across from the wisc dept of trans and i thought, why not work there instead. so i went in looking for the employment office with the perspective of working with the people i saw instead of just going in to renew my license. i thought, i can’t do it, i just can’t work with this caliber. that building has 1100 parking places and from what i saw a private company could do the same work with 500 employees, if that. by the way they filled that parking lot everyday, my windows were high enough so i could see the whole spread, and that doesn’t include the visitors lot.

    • Deerinwater

      thank you for you’re “on spot” view, We need more of that.

  • http://yahoo mytwocentswrth

    Public sector employees should have a ten year limit to their government employment. Let everyone have a chance to work for the public. Entrenched public employees, nepotism and a sense of entitlement has made public employment a cesspool of corruption. ‘Public service,’ whether from elected officials or public employees, needs to have term limits. A lifetime of guaranteed income and job security has made our ‘public servants’ our lifetime responsibility.

    • Deerinwater

      if it’s a under paid and under appreciated job ~~~~ you first! I’ve got laundry.

  • Palin16

    “In California, you can be openly gay, but if you’re a conservative you better stay in the closet”….loved that one Wayne. LOL

    • Stuart Shepherd

      Sounds like you should go “open,” Palin16!!!!

      • Palin16

        I am openly straight, numbscull!

  • donm

    We certainly have a major problem with public sector unions, education, and taxation! Instead of making sure workers’ pension plans are secure, unions are busy raising dues to buy political favors from the rats that are looting their pension plans! In between the give and take, our educators can’t seem to figure out what’s happening. Their golden goose promised to sit on gold eggs, but she’s been busy shopping for more gold paint. The eggs color turned black and they’re blowing up… leaving a rotten sulfur smell that makes one want to throw up! Then, there’s government… wallowing in money, running the wall paper money machines 24-7, night and day, just wanting to make everyone happy and devoted to their leaders. What harm is there in giving over $½ trillion to non-citizen invaders who trample our borders to get the freebies. Goodness its like feeding the pigeons! Blowing up Libya will enable the Muslim Brotherhood to make sure aggressive women don’t walk ahead of the goats. Then there’s billions for kings, queens, and wannabees; tit fir tat, bow a little, drop some gold and pearls, and we’re always welcome in the presence of royalty, earth shakers, and oil well drillers… blessed are the givers! Unfortunately, the perplexed masses of “us” keep screaming at our leaders for MORE. They obediently respond with more, while insatiably ungrateful “us” just keep screaming “MORE”.

    If one takes a negotiated pay cut to send an equal amount of money to a non-income non taxable annuity fund, it would be logical that the annuity would be there earning money and available when promised. Unfortunately the union thug with a baseball bat can’t add, the union goon with a hammer and sickle tattooed on his forehead doesn’t believe in adding, and educators with masters’ degrees in education can’t add! The problem is the same as Social Security, beginning with ZERO interest (Fed Rates), runaway inflation (a 2011 dollar buys $0.13 of 1965 goods), and ends with a corrupt federal government run by global financial monopolists who have literally looted this country!

    If a $20,000 wage earner pays $255/mo. SSIMED (15.3%) and earns 5% ROI on it, he has $546,310 (46/yrs.) on his 65th birthday. That will buy a 13 year 5% annuity paying $4,770 per month to age 78. That is 2.86 times more than salary! A $50,000 salary or $637.50/mo. grows to $1,365,775 future value and $11,924/mo. pension, or collect $5,691 interest literally forever!! To the contrary, $637.50/mo @ 46 years with zero interest and 5% inflation yields $137,734 cash or $625/mo from 65 to death at 78th b/d! A 10% interest rate is required to net 5%, if inflation is 5%! Zero Fed rates says “somebody” is using that money “free” while others are just giving it away.

    This isn’t a local or state problem, so don’t demand more tax and citizen money to solve it! Obama, Bernanke and Geitner are stimulating something, but it isn’t you, me, unions, or people who invest and create jobs! Look at it this way, we got $5+ trillion new debt, your pension is worthless (unfunded debt because capital is worthless), & SSI is broke for the same reason! It’s past time to demand truth & send the “spinners” home or jail if their fingers are sticky!

    • richard brooks

      you have highlighted the problems, but.

      ssi is not broke. simply pay back all of the money that has been stolen over the years. stop giving it to folks who have not paid in.

      blaming the current politicians for 50 years of corruption is not a solution.

      blaming all of the corruption on the unions and claiming they are thugs?

      open door immigration, foreign aid, a losing and costly war on drugs, military involvement in far too many countries, etc. are all a part of the problem.

  • Steven Archibald

    Unless you are going to teach your brats at home?,..Then give teachers the break you have been getting forever.

  • Eric Jones

    Mr Root where to begin first of all the eu i failing because the euro i collapsing because they bailed out ther banks instead of letting then fail like capitillism says to secondly the us economy is failing because our goverment is spending HALF OUR INCOME on the MILLITARY instead of where it should be spent on i.e infactructure education healthcare etc. thirdly we are losing jobs because state governers (most of whom are welthy republicans) OUTSORCE them to other countrys and finally as a socialist im offended by the basis of your argument which appers to be the big bad workers are ganging up on the welthey either thriple check your facts next time or just wear a “i heart the elites” t-shirt.

  • Deerinwater

    After reading this thread I have two points of concern;

    Kinetic1 says:

    Perhaps the state failed to invest wisely. They could well have been caught up in the bank scandals of the last decade that wiped out so many pensions. Either way, should the employees be asked to pay for the mistakes of the state? Would you feel this way if it was your 401k they were refusing to honor?”

    This is an important item ~ to think about if the state pension funds are being gambled with on Wall Street, who’s the Fox left to guard the hen house? Who is actually responsible for theses funds? Are they insured? if so, by whom?

    And on the topic of Governors interest in being thrifty for some “stated” Conservative agenda.

    Is Rick Perry’s $92376 pension a harbinger of a major fiscal crisis …
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/…perrys…pension…/gIQARjS74O_blog.ht…Dec 19, 2011 –

    The Texas governor is getting a state pension even while he’s in office, … the system’s largesse to retiring federal workers: Governor Rick Perry.

  • Deerinwater
  • Deerinwater

    Conservatism seems to be for everyone else but not for Conservatives.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

    How many Public Sector Union members are there? Now add the adult numbers in their families who rely on these government wages and you’ll know have many extra people wont vote for the Republicans. Then you have all the marketing people who are working around the world promoting American products like cotton whose jobs are now on the line for spending $miilion on promotional stunts if the Republicans win the Presidency and again you might realise how many fewer people will vote for Mitt.

    The moral of my story is not to target the voters or Obama the man, but rather target the policies so you dont make people worry about their specific jobs.

  • donm

    Richard – you’re on the right track, but…

    SSI IS broke! Treble monopoly damages would provide well deserved funds and maybe reestablish a free capital investment market in the US. What can you do with the likes Obama, Geitner, Bernanke, Frank, and those who did the same thing with significantly less zeros on the bill? China would solve that problem & sure enough, they’d never loot again!

    Uniform government claims that it takes two plus workers to pay one benefit mocks the fact that current workers are paying enough SSIMED tax to provide 2.9 full pay benefits up to the max SSI benefit and beyond the benefit cap, top $106,800 earners pay enough in to provide enough in to pay 13 $2000 benefits/mo. That’s more than SSI max! All politicians agree that massive amounts of general tax funds are required to pay SSIMED benefits. Because they are all supposedly highly educated and intelligent… they know what they are doing, and it can be called nothing less that plunder! Instead of putting the money to work creating productive US infrastructure, government is giving away trillions while their government treasury is giving global financial monopolists free use of that money PLUS DEVALUING THE DEBT OWED BY CREATING INFLATION (14 cents payback purchasing power on 1965 debt dollars!

    Yes it has been standard operating procedure for a long time… especially growing since the 1990’s, and completely in a runaway mode for the past three years! Until one, then two, and more politicians define the problems and demand solutions, the best solution is throwing just about every one out and starting over. Yes we have a few good people who must stay and lead the fight. The first place to start a purge is within GAO and GASB – the watch dogs are wolves! Fund mismanagement??? – There’s nothing to manage when government makes US capital investment worthless with zero interest rates, then sacks the principle by devaluing the dollar to pennies! When you sack the country it’s called treason!

    It’s not about blame. It’s about truth and disposing of outright evil! Those who spin the problem and deceive are worse than the thieves! Shut SSIMED down and invest directly with the global monopolists, Madoffs, etc., Dodd & Barney, etc.??? Let Stern manage it??? Government will work if oath of office is enforced with vigor! Solutions begin with prosecuting Holder!

    Union thugs? They have done nothing to define or solve the problem They are obstructing and protesting the victims of this crime (citizens). They’re protecting the looters, raising funds to reelect them, and threatening any who get in their way!

  • donm

    The moral of this story is very simple! If you save 5.35% of your wages compounded monthly every month for 46 years & it earns 5%, you have a full salary pay out for 13 years, or roughly 48% wages in interest only, FOREVER!! – If you save 6.95% of wages, the 13 year payback is 130% of salary (roughly including fringe benefits). The problem isn’t with local, state, or federal government employers or taxpayers, it’s the runaway corruption that runs government and poisons government checks and balances – the agencies that are sworn to protect the country and citizens, but don’t!

    Don’t blame the government or private employers who put 10% of their wages into a 5% trust fund and expect a 13 year payback annuity @ 187% of their wages. It’s the American dream of saving for a rainy day or the predictable time when they can no longer work – It rewards with a time to enjoy things they couldn’t afford while working. They are wonderful people who are providing the capital that should be building the wealth of themselves and ALL CITIZENS at the same time. It takes wealth, not Bull sh*t to provide jobs! The rats who steal this money are literally throwing it away, and the global monopolists who get to use it free plus pay pennies back on real principle are the same rats who charge 30%+ credit card fees and invest it outside of the US to countries that recognize the value of capital.

    It’s the presidency, senate, house, and DOJ! Learn how to boo these bastards every single time they lie & cheat. A rotten egg or two might be appropriate at times!

    PS real wages rarely change for bottom 3/4 wage earners. Point is, if they made $1.30/hr in 1965 and made $10.00/ in 2012… they have exactly the same purchasing power – no real wage change occured! Learn BLS stats, CPI Index, etc. – also beware because this batch or number crunchers fudges the numbers!!!

  • Pearl Clark

    OK what most folk seem to have forgotten is that the reason a lot of people started working for various governments was because of the extra benefits. In the past they could have earned much more in the privite sector. As far as teachers, firefighters and police are concerned they deserve to be well compensated for the work they do. Remember, you get what you pay for.

  • Deerinwater

    If are one to believe that Corporate America should run our nation, you should be pleased with these results.

  • Pingback: The Sunday ‘Report;’ 06/17/2012 « Justincase505's Blog

  • Deerinwater

    “”I am not a welfare queen,” says Melissa Bruninga-Matteau.

    That’s how she feels compelled to start a conversation about how she, a white woman with a Ph.D. in medieval history and an adjunct professor, came to rely on food stamps and Medicaid. Ms. Bruninga-Matteau, a 43-year-old single mother who teaches two humanities courses at Yavapai College, in Prescott, Ariz., says the stereotype of the people receiving such aid does not reflect reality. Recipients include growing numbers of people like her, the highly educated, whose advanced degrees have not insulated them from financial hardship.

    “I find it horrifying that someone who stands in front of college classes and teaches is on welfare,” she says.

    http://chronicle.com/article/From-Graduate-School-to/131795/

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