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Why America’s Leading Libertarian Is Endorsing Mitt Romney And Joining The GOP

September 13, 2012 by  

 

Hello, I’m Wayne Allyn Root for PersonalLiberty.com. I have a major political announcement: the biggest one of my life. Before I tell you about the most important decision of my political life and a little about my personal story that led to this decision, let me first cut to the chase.

If Obama is re-elected on Nov. 6, America and capitalism both face grave danger. I believe America as we know it and love it, the America of our Founding Fathers, the America that embraces capitalism and offers the famous American Dream, the America represented by the U.S. Constitution, the America of freedom, the America that allows the pursuit of happiness — that America is finished. Gone. In the rearview mirror. I don’t believe we ever recover from another four years of Barack Obama.

As Obama’s college classmate at Columbia University, I’ve reported for four years now on his plan to overwhelm the U.S. economy and wipe out capitalism. It’s based on the strategy of two Columbia University professors, Cloward and Piven. Obama is following it to perfection. But he has only just begun. He’s actually tried to be reasonable for his first four years because his goal was to be re-elected, so he could finish the job. So he had to be moderate to hold his powder. To hold back from his true radical self.

If Obama is re-elected on Nov. 6, you haven’t seen anything yet. His gloves will be off. He will be free to be his real radical self. Without ever having to face voters again, Obama will truly wreck this economy from sea to shining sea — just as Saul Alinsky, Cloward and Piven, Barack Obama Sr., Frank Marshall, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, and a host of other radical, Marxist, American-haters taught him.

We will face a final economic Armageddon: the total collapse of the U.S. economy and our monetary system. Obama unleashed will send the IRS to crush his political opposition. He will appoint a majority of Supreme Court and Federal judges, so none of his violations of the Constitution will ever again be challenged. His policies will encourage radical Islamic and terrorist rogue states to threaten and eventually destroy Israel. He will finish his destruction — actually, extinction — of our domestic oil, coal, even natural gas industries, so we’ll become more dependent on these rogue terrorist nations who sell us their oil. And he will continue to weaken the U.S. military, so we will be unable to prevent it all from happening.

Have I got your attention now?

Here’s my personal story and my big announcement. It has been a whirlwind last five years in my life. I started out my journey as the antithesis of a politician. As a small businessman, “home-school” dad, Las Vegas oddsmaker and political newcomer running for the Libertarian Presidential nomination in 2007, you couldn’t find more of an anti-politician in all of politics.

But in America anything is possible. In this great country, never discount a long shot. I was elected the Libertarian Vice Presidential nominee in 2008. The Bob Barr/Wayne Root Presidential ticket went on to garner the second highest vote total in Libertarian history. I was then elected Chairman of the Libertarian National Campaign Committee and became the No. 1 vote-getter in the country for election to the Libertarian National Committee. Media across the country called me “Mr. Libertarian” in my 4,000 media appearances since 2008.

Today, after giving this many months of thought, I’m announcing the most important decision of my political career. I am stepping down from my roles in the Libertarian Party to rejoin the Republican Party and, most importantly, to elect Mitt Romney as President of the United States.

Why? First, let’s start with what I believe in. I believe in the limited government promised by the U.S. Constitution. I want government to get out of the way of small business owners like me, put fewer rules and regulations in our way, and allow us to keep more of our own money. I want government to remember that it’s our money in the first place. I want politicians to support and motivate the taxpayers, the private sector and small business — the economic engine of America. Small businesses create 75 percent of new jobs and pay most of the taxes in this country.

Under the Obama Administration, we have seen businessmen denigrated, demonized, punished, smothered by 60,000 new rules and regulations, threatened with massive new taxes, and attacked by the IRS. That’s why there are no jobs. That’s why, in my opinion, the economy is in free fall. That’s why America is facing economic collapse and disaster.

I’m a capitalist evangelist. I’m proud to be a small businessman. I love starting and running businesses. What matters now above all else — the issues that are of life-and-death importance to this country, the only issues that matter to 90 percent of Americans — are the economy, creating jobs, lowering spending, lowering the debt and deficit, reducing taxes, and saving capitalism. Because if the economy collapses or your personal economy collapses, what difference does any other issue matter? We need to get our fiscal house in order first, before we can deal with all the other problems. Without an economy, without jobs, nothing else matters. That’s why electing Mitt Romney is so important.

This election is not about Libertarian versus non-Libertarian. This election is about capitalism versus big government progressivism and Big Brother socialism. Mitt Romney believes in the same things I do: keeping businesses free from government intrusion; allowing small business owners to keep more of their own money; and rewarding instead of punishing investors, innovators and job creators. Mitt understands, as President Calvin Coolidge once said: “The business of America is business.”

Mitt understands that Obama’s rhetoric, constant threats against business, union favoritism, IRS intimidation, barrage of tax increases, 60,000 new rules and regulations, $5 trillion in new debt, the added taxes and regulations of Obamacare, and the attempt to ban oil drilling and regulate the coal industry out of existence, have collectively ground the U.S. economy to a halt.

If you don’t believe me, just look across the pond to Europe. They’ve been following Obama’s exact plan for decades. Their mantra was also big government, big unions, big spending, big taxes, big pensions, free healthcare, too many government employees and green energy. The result? Economic disaster on a grand scale. Specifically Greece, Italy and Spain are enduring a tragedy few can even comprehend. France is next. We are following the exact same path under Obama.

Is Mitt perfect? No. Sure, I’d rather have Ron Paul or Rand Paul or Jim DeMint running the economy. Those are principled, Tea Party, fiscal conservatives. And, of course, I’m a fan of Gary Johnson, the former New Mexico Governor and Libertarian nominee for President. But guess what? Wake up. Like it or not, the only candidates that will run this country for the next four years are Obama or Romney. And we cannot afford to give Obama four more years. Period.

The sad reality is that this is our last stand to save America. The defeat of Barack Obama is necessary to save the U.S. economy from complete collapse. We will not survive four more years of Obama as CEO of this economy. I can speak personally; I know my businesses will not survive another four years of Obama. The economy is in free fall here on Main Street. Small-business owners like me are seeing our entire life’s work melting away. Our children’s future is being destroyed before our very eyes.

Don’t believe me? You think things are getting better, as Obama and Clinton claimed at the Democratic Convention? Then you’re in a delusional land of fairy tales. The economy is in danger of complete collapse. Did you see the latest jobs report? Disaster. For every one American landing a job, four dropped off the job rolls. At this rate, we’ll all be unemployed. By the way, unemployment is up in nine of the 10 battleground States. Nine of 10. The 10th is even. Did you notice that sales tax revenues in California in July were down a staggering $530 million versus projections? That’s in one State for one month. Disaster. Did you notice that petroleum sales nationally in July were down to 1996 levels? Disaster. Are you aware that “help wanted” ads are down to levels not seen since the Lehman Brothers collapse in 2008 (when the entire financial system was on the verge of Armageddon). Of course, you didn’t. The mainstream media don’t cover bad news. It might embarrass Obama.

The U.S. economy is like a very large and diverse failing company in desperate need of a turnaround. What America needs at this moment in history is a turnaround specialist. Not a Libertarian. That’s not the issue right now. We need a leader who knows how to turn around a failing business. We need a job creator with major CEO experience, with specific business-turnaround success, a detailed understanding of economics, a creative and innovative business mind, and a track record of extraordinary success to lead this country back from the edge of the fiscal cliff. That person is Mitt Romney. If he could pull off miracles with Staples (and dozens of companies like it) and the 2002 Olympics (which he saved from an economic disaster similar to the situation America now faces), he can turn this Obama bust into the Romney boom economy.

As opposed to Barack Obama who is not now (nor was he ever) qualified to run a bodega or a Dairy Queen. The first new net job he creates as President will be the first job he’s created in his life. He was quick to take credit for 4.5 million jobs created at the Democratic Convention. But the Labor Department says job creation during Mr. Obama’s Presidency has been several hundred thousand at best — almost all of them, by the way, terrible, low-paying jobs replacing good, high-paying jobs. But here’s the most important fact left out of Obama’s speech, “Obama is on track to have the worst jobs record of any president since World War II,” says Washington Post Fact Checker Glenn Kessler. By the way, the Labor Department just revised the June and July jobs report down another 41,000 jobs from what was reported.

Do I agree with Mitt and the GOP on every issue? Of course not. No one ever agrees 100 percent on everything. But I’m willing to put my differences aside to set an example in order to take back our country from the grips of socialism and the abyss of economic ruin. There is no other choice. Our back is to the wall, and Obama’s defeat is that important to the survival of our country, our economy, our freedoms, our children’s future and, ultimately, capitalism itself.

It’s time for a coalition of Republicans, conservatives, Tea Party activists, Libertarians, Ron Paul supporters, small-business owners, homeowners, investors, patriots, Christians, Jews and Israel supporters to join together and support Mitt Romney now.

As Clint Eastwood said, “We own this nation.” It’s time to take it back. Our businesses and jobs depend on it. The future of America and our children depends on it. Their quality of life is hanging in the balance. This is our last stand.

Is there still hope? Can this Obama nightmare be turned around? Look no further than Ronald Reagan. Reagan’s policies turned a Jimmy Carter economic disaster (similar to Obama’s) into the greatest and longest economic boom in world history — leading to the creation of over 45 million net jobs (20 million of them in just a few years), over $60 trillion in private sector asset creation (amazing), and the greatest increase in GDP (Gross Domestic Product) in American history. Reagan’s “Great Bull Stock Market” created more wealth for America’s families than any boom ever.

Now I know some of you are saying the GOP is not the answer. I understand. I left the GOP in 2007 because I lost faith too. Far too often, the GOP has given only lip service to ideas and ideals like limited government, individual rights and the Constitution. Once elected, Republicans often ignore those ideas and grow government just like Democrats. Look at the spending and growth of government under George W. Bush. Look at the 25,000 new rules and regulations under Bush (far better than Obama, but still terrible). Look at the rising debt under Bush. This was precisely why I left the GOP in 2007: because the GOP left me.

But something has changed. With the birth and growth of the Tea Party, everything is now changing. The Tea Party represents me. I believe in the Tea Party. And I believe that with the right leader, the Tea Party can change the Republican Party — or certainly influence the GOP in a big way. I’m proud of U.S. Senate Tea Party Caucus leaders like Rand Paul, Jim DeMint, Mike Lee and Marco Rubio. I hope to join them one day, representing my home state of Nevada in the U.S. Senate. So, for the first time in a long while, I feel good about the GOP. And I’m happy to say I’m back. Like the Phillip Phillips song, I’m back “home.”

Because of my general agreement with Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan on important economic issues (not total agreement, but general agreement); and because the Tea Party will hold the GOP to their promises or we will start a firestorm and make their lives miserable and then in the next election, throw the bums out; and because of my deep understanding of what Obama intends to do to this economy and this country in a 2nd term, I am now all in. I will do everything in my power to help elect Mitt Romney as the next President of the United States.

Because I believe Mitt Romney is our Reagan. And I am proud to once again call myself a Republican: a Tea Party Republican. This is our chance, folks. This is our last stand. This is the future of our children. There just is no other choice. Our businesses are on the line. Our economic survival is on the line. Our Constitution is on the line. So I’ve chosen to put my money where my mouth is.

I’ve sacrificed everything I’ve worked so hard for, everything I’ve built in six years to rise to the top of the Libertarian Party. It’s time for all of us to put our differences aside and fight for this country, fight for capitalism, fight for economic freedom, fight for our children’s future. Obama’s re-election will bring it all down. We can’t let that happen. I won’t let that happen. Will you?

I’m Wayne Root for Personal Liberty. See you next week. Same time, same place. God Bless America.

Wayne Allyn Root

(W.A.R.) is a former Presidential candidate, the 2008 Libertarian Vice Presidential nominee, and a Libertarian-conservative national media star. His new book, “The Ultimate Obama Survival Guide” is a #1 national best-seller in bookstores, as well as an Amazon #1 Finance and Conservative bestseller. A former CNBC anchorman and host (then known as Financial News Network), Root is the ultimate Capitalist Evangelist: a blue-collar S.O.B. (son of a butcher) turned CEO, small businessman, serial entrepreneur, business speaker, and TV/radio commentator on the topics of business, economics, entrepreneurship, and politics. Root is a regular guest on Fox News, as well as on hundreds of conservative talk radio shows across the United States. His opinions reach tens of millions of Americans as a regular columnist and commentator for many of the most popular political and business websites, including FoxNews.com. He also writes regularly for The Washington Times. He is the bestselling author of eight books. Root serves as national spokesman for several companies, as well as a Senior Economic Advisor. Root is also well known in the television and media industries. He has hosted, starred and produced many television shows. Today, he is a producer of the highest-rated television show on Travel Channel. Because of his success in the diverse fields of business, media, sports, entertainment and publishing, Root was awarded his own 180-pound granite star in the Las Vegas Walk of Stars. Only 60 legends in the history of Las Vegas have received a star on Las Vegas Boulevard. A native New Yorker and graduate of prestigious Columbia University, this Capitalist Evangelist proudly resides in Nevada, a state with no income tax. His website is ROOTforAmerica.com.

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  • swampfox

    yeah I’m with you 110%!
    I have been wanting to see this godless heathenistic Marxist Muslim America hating Muslim brotherhood jihadies Allah worshiping idotic perveted homosexual loving lieing scumbag gone from day one.
    I’m over being soft about it,now it’s time for every god fearing flag waving patriot to do your duty and vote this Marxist out!
    ROMNEY 2012!!!!!

    • FreedomFighter

      …so we will be unable to prevent it all from happening…

      Simply put:

      Obama wins a 2nd term, America dies, the Amerian people, your children become slaves, ruled by a Islamo-commi dictator.

      in addition the resulting civil war will end up killing 10s of millions of Americans, and we may never regain our country.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • GALT

        “The Master said….If names are not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language is not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success……..Therefor a superior man considers it necessary that the names he uses may be spoken appropriately. What the superior man requires, is just that in his words, there may be nothing incorrect.”

        “The Master said,…..Without knowing the force of words, it is impossible to know men.”

        Confucious 551 -479 B.C.

        Clearly Wayne Allen Root has no comprehension or conscience regarding the use of words……..or much of anything else.

        We have already begun the rather PAINFUL exercise of examining the use of words and the intelligent examination of them in particular contexts to determine what, if any, actual meaning can actually be derived………with the unavoidable conclusion, that while the common practice is to bandy them about as if “everyone knows” what they mean……….no one has yet managed to produce any coherant understanding of meaning, either of individual phrases, or a consistent interpretation when combined…..to deliver a comprehensible framework that can withstand questions that reasonably arise from any attempt to produce a logical interpretation. In fact, the common response is to resist the exercise altogether while being unable to refrain from taking “irrelevant” umbrage at being asked to do so, which while not “direct proof” of the “forced conclusion”……..it is a rather clear indication that what “everyone claims to know” has no basis in FACT………..and that such an admission is beyond contemplation by those unwilling to confront this both obvious and PAINFUL REALITY.

        Today’s exercise will deal with another interesting phrase which has arisen in the previous exercises, but not dealt with directly……

        Enlightened Self Interest
        and begins with a brief excerpt from the book Econned.

        “In 1776, Adam Smith published The Wealth fof Nations. In it he argued that the uncoordinated actions of large numbers of individuals, each acting out of self interest, sometimes produced , as if by “an invisible hand,”results that were beneficial to broader society. Smith also pointed out that self interested actions frequently led to injustice or even ruin. He fiercely criticized both how employers colluded with each other to keep wages low, as well as the ” savage injustice ” that European mercantilist interests had “commited with impunity” in colonies in Asia and the Americas.
        Smith’s ideas were cherry picked and turned into a simplistic ideology that now dominates university economics departments. This theory proclaims that the “invisible hand” ensures that economic interest will always lead to the best outcomes imaginable. It follows that any restrictions on the profit seeking activities of individuals and corporations interfer with this invisible hand, and therefor are “inefficient” and nonsensical.
        According to this line of thinking, individuals have perfect knowledge both of what they want and everything happening in the world at large,and so they pass there lives making intelligent decisions. Prices may change in ways that appear random, but this randomness follows predictable and unchanging rules and is never violently chaotic. It is therefore possible for corporations to use clever techniques to reduce and even eliminate the risks associated with their business. The result is a stable productive economy that represents the apex of civilization.
        This heartwarming picture airbrushes out nearly all of the real business world.”

        If this particular description sounds familiar, it is because it’s naivite is constantly being spouted in one way or another by various individuals as well as “our host” while being challenged by various contemporary works offered in counter point to their “imaginary worlds” which are largely based on “imaginary history”……….Economics Unmasked, Debt; The First 5000 Years, Power, Inc and Extreme Money. The words “cherry picked” are quite apropos…….and this new volume offers further insight into a REALITY which continues to EXPOSE the “magical world” that has been constructed for those who are too intellectually inept to have actually considered the meaning of “enlightened self interest”. As for Mr Root……he hasn’t managed to approach “rational self interest”.
        But he do have “self interest” down…….

        Book Description
        Publication Date: October 11, 2011
        Why are we in such a financial mess today? There are lots of proximate causes: over-leverage, global imbalances, bad financial technology that lead to widespread underestimation of risk.

        But these are all symptoms. Until we isolate and tackle fundamental causes, we will fail to extirpate the disease. ECONned is the first book to examine the unquestioned role of economists as policy-makers, and how they helped create an unmitigated economic disaster.

        Here, Yves Smith looks at how economists in key policy positions put doctrine before hard evidence, ignoring the deteriorating conditions and rising dangers that eventually led them, and us, off the cliff and into financial meltdown. Intelligently written for the layman, Smith takes us on a terrifying investigation of the financial realm over the last twenty-five years of misrepresentations, naive interpretations of economic conditions, rationalizations of bad outcomes, and rejection of clear signs of growing instability.

        In eConned, author Yves Smith reveals:

        –why the measures taken by the Obama Administration are mere palliatives and are unlikely to pave the way for a solid recovery

        –how economists have come to play a profoundly anti-democratic role in policy

        –how financial models and concepts that were discredited more than thirty years ago are still widely used by banks, regulators, and investors

        –how management and employees of major financial firms looted them, enriching themselves and leaving the mess to taxpayers

        –how financial regulation enabled predatory behavior by Wall Street towards investors

        –how economics has no theory of financial systems, yet economists fearlessly prescribe how to manage them

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIQFPkH3ILI

      • FreedomFighter

        Bravo Sierra Galt and a lot of it.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • GALT

        Anything for the “willfully ignorant”…….FF……..and when you do go to war, please be civil.

      • Warrior

        Um, I’ve ordered the full support of the united states gubmint to the gubmint of libya to hunt down these perpetrators, Um, Um, Um, Mitt Romney has no business intervening in my affairs, Um, Um, Um, gotta go fundraise now. Billary, take over now, its your mess.

        See how easy it is to perform that job. Foreigns affairs ain’t nothin compared to facing a teachers strike when you’re running for an election.

      • Robert Smith

        Galt posted: “–how financial regulation enabled predatory behavior by Wall Street towards investors”

        Really… Then it was correct for Barny Frank to DEREGULATE things?

        Gult, you can’t have it both ways.

        Rob

      • Paul B.

        I agreed with Wayne… the republicans HAD LOST THEIR WAY in the 2000′s when we had control, although. like the Dems scream obstruction now, THEY were the obstructionists then, coddling Fannie and Freddie towards financial chaos. There is no progress without common cause, and the two parties have less in common now than ever. THAT IS the biggest problem we face in America now as NO party will ever have COMPLETE control in DC.

        The Dems were 1 vote away from filibuster proof control for almost two years, but their policies were so distasteful to the majority of Americans, the Reps were commanded by their constituents to resist the “Change” that Obama promised as we quickly realized in Jan 2009 it was NOT what he promised, we had been misled into some dream of Utopian society.

        Many fell for that trap, but many have realized the fallacy of even looking for Utopia as it will NEVER be realized. Humans are NOT designed for Utopia, we are designed to deal with the harsh realities of life, and that includes hard work, sacrifice, determination and “nothing comes for free.” regardless of what anyone tries to promise you, what you gain in free stuff, you lose in freedom.

        Enslaving the masses was ALWAYS the design of the progressive as they believe humans are too stupid to make their own decisions. So we must be placed in neat little boxes, controlled according to some grand design while the elitists sit on the mountain top and bask in the glory of their “Great Society”.

        If you believe in fairy tales, then vote Democrat. If you believe that reality is NOT getting cared for cradle to grave, as we have seen the failure all across Europe and throughout history, never works and the results of every attempt have ended in disaster, worse than the common struggles of reality, people are forced into grave conditions, then vote Republican.

        As much as I admire and appreciate and believe in the Libertarian ideals, our inherent rights and freedoms, which Liberals think come from DC, not inalienable by birth as a human, It is in our best interest as Reagan concluded to steer the closest party with a chance to rule towards the goal we mostly agree is best. with the Tea Party, we have seen some dramatic shifts, and with our continued monitoring, public pressure and support of those in DC to do what is right, and not what is politically expedient, we may actually have a chance of creating a return to constitutional ideals and a recapture of the freedoms that allows American to excel, to succeed and create an environment of growth and opportunity for everyone. Anyone with the capability to do so must pull themselves up through their own efforts, not by clinging to a rope “hoping” for someone else to pull us up. Given EQUAL opportunity is all we ask. DC crony capitalism, regulated markets, favorable purchased legislation for competitive advantage is what got us in this mess.

        Obama and the progressives see that as their advantage and will use it to control everything, while they rail against it in public, they support and promote it in the backroom behind the curtain of the liberally biased media. Open the curtain, look behind the rhetoric of everyday media and campaign speeches and promises. Look what destruction is being put in place and vote for what will make that change. Romney alone is NOT the answer, but at least I feel he can be properly guided with the right encouragement. with Obama, there is NOTHING that we can do to persuade him, as his entire party is consumed with progressive, radical ideology… and with that there is NOT compromise. His narcissism would never allow him to concede his plan that we have witnessed first hand clearly these past 3 1/2 years.
        .
        Consider this as you enter the voting booth in Nov.

      • bill coleman

        WHAT DO CONFUCIUS OR GALT UNDERSTAND ABOUT ISLAM? BUT ON THE OTHER HAND…CLEARLY IT BOILS DOWN TO THIS….ANYONE WHO DOES NOT VOTE FOR ROMNEY IS VOTING TO TRASH THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND CONTINUE THE SURRENDER OF THE USA TO ISLAM.

        More Liberterians need to come out publicly for Romney-Ryan. If Ron Paul had won the GOP primary, I cannot imagine that there would be any conservatives doing anything to help Obama get re-elected. Liberterians will be showing their true colors by who they vote for in November. vin 5 ron et ya ho period con..

        BREAKING NEWS FOR LIBERTERIANS AND RON PAUL SUPPORTERS. THE PRIMARY SEASON IS OVER. ROMNEY WON’T LEGALIZE POT OR TELL THE STATES THAT THEY SHOULD, BUT ROMNEY AS POTUS WILL GREATLY SLOW DOWN THE SLIDE INTO HELL ON EARTH THAT THE VOTERS GAVE US LAST TIME AND GIVE US 4 YEARS TO REGROUP UNDER A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT IN LIEU OF POSSIBLY HAVING THE CHOICE OF LOSING OUR GUNS AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH OR FIGHTING A CIVIL WAR.

        IF YOU VOTED LAST TIME TO PROVE YOU WERE NOT A RACIST OR BECAUSE YOU WANTED POT LEGALIZED, HOW BOUT VOTING NEXT TIME TO PROVE YOU DON’T WANT WOMEN WEARING BURKAS (AFTER SOCIALISM HAS BEEN USED TO DESTROY THE CONSTITUTION’S RESISTANCE TO ISLAM.)

        The time to make a “statement” is in the primaries and on the internet, etc. In the USA, politics takes the place of what would be war in many other parts of the world. Your ballot is your only “bullet”, only in this case, the target of your “bullet” indicates who you think has the best chance of winning the election and at the same time defeating the most evil candidate. Anyway you look at it, a conservatives’ vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Obama because it reduces Romney’s vote count by one. The time to promote a third party is in a primary and between the general elections. Talk all you want to, but please do not waste your only “BULLET”. vin 5 ron et ya ho period con..

      • eddie47d

        So much for standing firm in your beliefs. Most men fall once in awhile and give in. Is there a Libertarian Anonymous out there Wayne can attend.

      • GALT

        You had a point Robert that you are struggling to make? It might help to know that
        you are arguing with the amazon book description……and that the phrase as used,
        would apply to the rules in place as well as those not in place, or their removal.
        I suppose you could contact the author, or the reviewer and have it changed or ask
        for clarification……….or read the book, or………..?

        In any case, I can not be of assistance since I did not write that review, and therefore
        am not trying to have anything, anyway……if you do choose to read the book, you will
        find that the instruments that contributed to the “crisis” were developed in the early
        nineties…….employed by hedge funds and others, Morgan Stanley, Goldman, etc.

      • DaveH

        I can’t believe it. Of all people, Eddie gets this one right.
        Wayne Allen Root is a LINO.

      • al

        We have two scenarios. We elect Mitt Romney and are on the correct side in the following revolution with Obama and his Socialist Thugs. We can win this fight because we will have entire government on our flank backing us up.
        Or, Obama wins reelection and we are patirots revolting against the Communist takeover of our Nation. Again we can win but this will be a long and costly affair and many of us will not survive to see our flag once again waving over the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, but it will happen, count on it…..

      • GALT

        Yo Wayne…….I just noted your little lament that “your businesses” will not survive
        another four years of “current policies”……..which is too bad, but if people don’t have a right to a job which sustains them ( which Myers claimed yesterday ) why do you have
        a right to a business which cannot adapt to the economic reality in which you find yourself?

        Mr. Romney doesn’t seem to have suffered, so after your endorsement, maybe if you ask nicely he can explain his secret to success in circumstances where you can only manage
        failure? ( he will have plenty of free time……and he does seem to understand how to
        profit from failure……..)

      • Shane

        DaveH, is not whom he wishes to us to preceive him to be. His judgements have been found to be wanting, with just a little discernment upon the reader. While I agree with many of his penned opinons. Its DaveH’s self delusion of his own grandiose belief of his own infallibly of belief. Along with his certain and unshakeable belief that he can judge others with only a few tit-bits of comments and opinion, that would prevent those like myself from putting trust in DaveH’s inner soul. DaveH is an authoritarian absolutist, whom feels his faultlessness to his marrow.

        Or he could be, possibly, a liberal plant to divide the conservative vote on this and other sites. Which would result in an Obama win in 2012. If you follow his long standing positions, it would not be a stretch.

        Gives one pause to consider. With all that’s known about Obama, and his minions. The effect of another four years of his administration on this country, which many on this site claim to love.

        Why then the vote for Obama, by withdrawing support for a viable, yet imperfect alternative? We can buy us some time, what with the Tea Party supporters in and out of office, many grass root organizations and meeting places, such as this site, by setting a fire line. It does not make sense, that one would allow the glaring unscruplous disaster in office with his lunatic supporters, take this election without a stand.

    • Robert Smith

      “That’s why, in my opinion, the economy is in free fall.”

      If the economy is in free fall how’s come the stock market is setting records, oil companies are making more money than ever and and and and…

      We’ve had “trickle down” for some time now and the rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting worse off.

      That’s NOT the America I know and love.

      Oh, and christians IMO are measured not by how much they make, but by how much they help their neighbor.

      Rob

      • Warrior

        Ya see, ben prints some money and gives it to the banks, and then the banks invest it (not in loans of course) and then the market goes up, but your measely piece has really lost value because…………..oh never mind.

      • GRusling

        Robert Smith obviously doesn’t understand what “inflation” is and how it works. Wall Street doesn’t care because it’s at the top of the food chain and makes money on volume, but “main Street” is not so blessed and loses money when it’s product is devalued, along with its cash reserve! Some people just refuse to see the obvious…

      • skippy

        Well Warrior……..”never mind” is right. Robert will probably never understand how things (and the sheeple) are being manipulated.

      • Jeff

        I’m really concerned. This could swing the election. Alert Gallup and the New York Times. Root endorses Romney. Wow! Wait a minute. He can’t even convince DaveH, one of his most loyal followers. I guess Obama has nothing to worry about. He’s still the 2nd most important person from his graduating class.

      • DaveH

        What is with you Liberal Progressives, Jeff, that makes it so hard for you to be honest?
        I am not, and never have been, one of Wayne’s “loyal followers”.

      • Dale left coast

        The hyperinflation episode in the Weimar Republic in the early 1920s was not the first hyperinflation. Many of the dramatic and unusual economic behaviors now associated with hyperinflation were first documented systematically in Germany: order-of-magnitude increases in prices and interest rates, redenomination of the currency, consumer flight from cash to hard assets, and the rapid expansion of industries that produced those assets. German monetary economics was then highly influenced by Chartalism and the German Historical School, and this conditioned the way the hyperinflation was then usually analyzed.
        Although the inflation ended with the introduction of the Rentenmark and the Weimar Republic continued for a decade afterwards, hyperinflation is widely believed to have contributed to the Nazi takeover of Germany and Adolf Hitler’s rise to power. Adolf Hitler himself in his book, Mein Kampf, makes many references to the German debt and the negative consequences that brought about the inevitability of “national socialism”. The inflation also raised doubts about the competence of liberal institutions, especially amongst a middle class who had held cash savings and bonds. It also produced resentment of bankers and speculators, whom the government and the press blamed for the inflation crisis.[6] Some Germans called the hyperinflated Weimar banknotes “Jew confetti”.

        Is this scenario being played out in the USA today? Only the marxists in the WH can answer that.

        • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

          ”If the economy is in free fall how’s come the stock market is setting records, oil companies are making more money than ever and and and…”

          All the wealth in our country has a certain worth regardless of the “numbers”. If I double the supply of dollars, everything is now “worth” twice as many as before, but the actual value has not changed. The only thing that changes is normal folks’ purchasing power diminishes, as prices and especially wages, lag far behind the new increase in dollar supply. Dollars are just a convenient but dying fiction, folks. The only way to preserve real wealth is with tangible items that are necessary or at least useful to the business of life. Versatility, utility, long or unlimited shelf life, and barter potential are key. Gold is cute, but I ain’t giving you any food for it… Ammo, on the other hand can; feed your family, be traded for nearly anything else you need, and also be used to practice “social outreach” should it become necessary. That’s a lot of “bang for your buck”, so to speak…

          • George E

            …………..and justice for all……………….

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            Yep. Only question is, what sort of justice have we each summoned for ourselves? Your mileage may vary…

    • Linda B

      I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Peter Sagi

        You agree because you don’t know your history. We are supposed to fear another 4 years of Obummer and vote in the RomNut because of that. We were told to be afraid of Goldwater in 1964 because he was going to do drastic things in VietNam, and instead we all voted for LBJ as the peace president. The result was the VietNam war we all came to know and love. We voted for Reagan, the “great conservative” who, after passing a minor tax cut first year, passed the largest tax increase in history the next year. But we bought into it for “saving social security.” Social Security is the foundational piece of all the socialist crap in America today and your participation in it, deemed voluntary by law, is why you incur liability for federal income tax. Isn’t that great? Under Reagan, the Dept. of Education was expanded, not done away with as promised. Under Reagan, we came within two states of a Constitutional Convention, with the Rockefeller “New States Constititon” waiting in the wings to be passed, which would have done away with the bill of rigthts as we know them.

        Obummer is a known enemy who would be up against probably both a repuklican house and senate. Gridlock is the friend of the people. The RomNut, bought and paid for by the same interests as Obummer, will do everything that you are afraid Obummer will do, with mandates from the House and Senate. Obummer would be forced increasingly to resort to executive orders, forcing the tyranny more into the open. People might even question who is liable to follow executive orders, i.e., govt. employees, i.e., anyone with a socialist slavestate number.

        Forget getting on the RomNut band wagon. There is only one vote that counts, and that is separating yourself out of the system via Freeman on the Land or Secured Party Creditor routes. Google and watch for free on youtube “Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception” and google Winston Shrout and watch some of his videos as well.

        Pete

    • Bob Hampton

      Hoorah! Well said

    • marieelise

      way to go .i am with you .!

    • swampfox

      So now there is another swampfox how can that be.

    • http://google lorie

      i’m 210% with you

  • KG

    Ok, so tell me – how is a billionaire who made his money raiding companies for their pension funds and is a member of a religious cult going to help me : an average American worker?

    Ya know, in Washington, it takes two to tango. When you have a House of Representatives in Rebellion against the President – and is JEOPARDIZING our ECONOMY ON PURPOSE for POLITICAL GAIN, you have to ask “What could the President do anyway?”

    There is a name for people like Mr. Root – they were called “Pharasees” in the Bible. People who became rich off the backs of working folks. Does it make you feel good that Mr. Root probably pays less (as a percentage) in taxes than you do? I wonder how many illegal aliens he hires to do his yard work? He probably drives a German made car – you know, the ones made by UNION labor?

    Lets get back to what works – Tax the rich, feed the poor and join your local Union. It worked in the 50′s, why not now?

    • Vicki

      Yeah KG lets tax the rich. Lets not just tax them. Lets take it all.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ

      As Bill says. Now what?

      • KG

        Bill Whittle is a lying A$$HOLE

      • Robert Smith

        Vicki says: “Yeah KG lets tax the rich. Lets not just tax them. Lets take it all.”

        Areugentous by extremism. Nobody is saying tax it all. Why are you lying about that?

        The fact is that they are NOT paying a fair share. It’s that simple. If we go back to the same tax rates as were under Reagan a lot of problems will be solved.

        Rob

      • George E

        Rob,

        Yeah, nothing ever stimulated economic growth like a good old fashioned tax increase. Hey, let’s write another million pages of tax regulations to drop on our businesses as well. That should get the economy fixed. Don’t you think? (I don’t. I think that’s exactly the wrong direction to go right now.)

      • skippy

        Kind of harsh aren’t you KG??!!! :)

      • al

        Lets think people. Why do you think the Constitution was written in the manner it was? Because our Founders did not think that the Federal Government should be able to Tax the Citizen directly. If the Federal Govt can tax a free man directly then ‘he is not a free man’ he is a govt slave. If the State can tax your wealth directly then it is not your wealth, it all belongs to the State. This is exactly why the Fed was to collect its money from Import, Export and Excise Taxes. The Federal Govt was connected to the wealth of the Nation as a whole and each citizen was a Free person. This all changed in 1912/13 due to Progressive Policy, they were going to make it much better. You know ‘Hope and Change’.
        They were going to regulate and stabilize the money supply with a ‘privately owned currency controlling system’ called the Federal Reserve and a Central Reserve Banking System. How has that worked out for the International Bankers? Great! How has it worked out for the Citizens of the U.S.? Not so good and it is getting worse each day.
        Is anybody interested in Article V of the Constitution? This is the only long term answer to all of our probems…..

      • Old Henry

        Please define “fair share” Robert. Then tell us who came up with the definition. Then tell us what qualifies them to define “fair share”.

        God Almighty gets by on 10%. The government is much, much less than He so, they should get by on less than 10%.

        It is not the government’s job to “feed the poor”. That is the duty of their fellow man, churches, charities. When the government does it they do it with stolen money taken at virtual gunpoint.

        To an illegal Mex you are rich and should pay more.

        How about the 47 percenters, who pay NO federal income tax, begin paying their “fair share”?

        Or, better yet let’s abolish the 16th Amendment and institute a 2% federal retail sales tax that can only be increased by popular vote at the polls.

        Or, let’s simply go back to excise taxes and tarrifs.

      • Old Henry

        George:

        Actually that is exactly the wrong dirction to go at ANY TIME.

        I shake my head at politicians who stammer that raising taxes / increasing regulations in a recession is not the thing to do, like raising taxes / increasing regulations any time is the right thing to do.

        • George E

          Old Henry,

          I totally agree. You get my vote…………

      • Robert Smith

        “God Almighty gets by on 10%. ”

        If HE is so powerful why does he need anything from human beings?

        Ohhhhh, I get it! It’s tribute induced by fear.

        Or it’s for the self appointed intermediaries who loot the flock for their own personal lifestyles.

        Remember, the flock either gets sheered or eaten.

        Rob

      • Vicki

        Robert Smith says:
        “Or it’s for the self appointed intermediaries who loot the flock for their own personal lifestyles.”

        At least they have the courtesy to ask and the flock has the option to refuse.
        Government takes at gunpoint.

      • Vicki

        Robert Smith says:
        “The fact is that they are NOT paying a fair share. It’s that simple.”

        And what is their fair share Robert? They already pay more than 70 percent of the money.
        http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners.

        Oh right. You want to spend more so since they have some discretionary income left over you want that too.

      • Vicki

        Robert Smith says:
        ” If we go back to the same tax rates as were under Reagan a lot of problems will be solved.”

        This statement shows the liberal mindset rather clearly. The simple tax rates back then were in 2 brackets. 15% for people earning about $30,000 or less and 28% for people earning over that.
        http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets

        Today’s tax rates have people earning under 17,000 paying only 10% so Roberts tax the rich philosophy starts at $17,000 which seems a bit low for rich people.

        • macgyver1948

          Vicki…. You say “Robert Smith says: ” If we go back to the same tax rates as were under Reagan a lot of problems will be solved.”This statement shows the liberal mindset rather clearly“.

          I am so confused with “This statement shows the liberal mindset rather clearly“ because it is not liberals who want to go back in time. Norquist and the TP and many of their GOP supporters want the time machine thing. So many Libs and many Left leaning people want reality and “current” circumstances to guide us. Norquist, who holds the life blood of over 270 of the GOP in Congress in his wallet and control, wants to take the time travel thing back to the early 20th century when it comes to government budgets and tax rates. Reagan’s era would not work for them because it is not far back enough since Reagan was a huge tax and spender kind of president. How does this “shows the liberal mindset rather clearly” or in any ways, as you say, for that matter? ‘Clearly’ has nothing to do with it. LOL. Roberts is so wrong too.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            No one has recommended rolling the federal budget back to the early 20th century. Ron Paul is the only candidate I recall that recommended rolling the budget back in a year or two to get to balance. Romney/Ryan are recommending getting to balance over many years which may not be quick enough to avoid the real financial problems our government has. They are betting that if they can slow the growth of government spending, and they can stimulate the economy sufficiently to produce a lot more tax revenue, they won’t have to cut so deeply. In other words, they want to grow out of the problem. If they’re wrong, there’s going to have to be some serious cost cutting to fix the financial disaster that’s staring us in the face. But that’s what is probably going to happen anyway if we don’t change our plan and actions.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Oh yes there are those who want to roll the budget back to that of the early 20th century. If I give you the video interview link (I have posted it on here several times, it’s is with ABC News) will you listen to it all the way through? This guy is so influential with over 270 GOP in Congress, that is a hint as to who is saying it and controlling others with his thing. It will be tomorrow because I want to get off here for the night.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Yes, I will definitely watch it. I will be very surprised if I come away with a negative impression of Grover, but I’ll try to keep an open mind. Give me the address. Thanks.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… I would hope you come away with all your own impressions. Here is a page from my notes:
            888

            What is and why does the Norquist PLEDGE exist?

            Norquist says – If they sign the pledge they get support, they get to govern, they win and I make it possible. If they do not sign the Pledge, or they violate it, they are toast.

            Listen to him say this in the interview in his words and do not just take it from my paraphrasing, even though it is pretty close to what Norquist actually says. http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7419360 .

            Norquist said he wanted to bring the tax structure back to where it was at the beginning of the 20th Century. That way unnecessary programs (according to him and the those with him) would starve out of existence. Programs such as Social Security and Medicare would die from lack of funding and no play on words intended but so would so many of those people depending on those programs. He knows this so maybe that has been part of their, The Tea Party and the now GOP property who have signed it, goal all along with the PLEDGE. We have inflation since the 1950s that wouldn’t have been thought of in the early 20th century. You will find a few, very few, Democrats who have signed. I wonder how wealthy and ambitious they are. According to the link I offer below it is 2 Dems in the House and 1 in The Senate.
            Norquist is so good with denial in this interview. Interview at http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7419360n .

            Also see Norquist: Romney Will Do As Told
            http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/13/grover-norquist-speech-cpac.html

            What might have prompted the Norquist PLEDGE in the past and how long has it been an idea and by whom? Well we know the very wealthy and the big corporations do not want government controls on them. We know they, as many of us, do not want higher, if any, taxes even those we go along with paying them. We know that George Bush Sr. was upset with some during his first campaign for presidency when he screamed at us with “READ MY LIPS, NO NEW TAXES” and we know soon after he was elected, maybe nicely helped by his “READ MY LIPS…” pledge to us. Soon after elected he raised our taxes. Maybe that in contrast helped to defeat him in his second run for the White house. We can’t really know when it began but the very wealthy and the big corporations have their ways, and the clout that most of us do not, of hurting those whom they feel betrayed them. Norquist is a multi-billionaire.

            There are times, because of circumstances, when taxes sadly need to be raised, realty dictates that. The Norquist PLEDGE wasn’t around in form at the time so maybe George Bush Sr realized the need to raise taxes, without the threat, and so do many who do not sign the Norquist PLEDGE now. Or maybe the non signors and the violators value their souls more. And maybe those who do sign the PLEDGE just want the help and support they are offered if they are compliant and do not care about the rest. But to sign that ‘under-no-circumstances-ever will you agree to raise taxes’ pledge, and actually to agree with what Norquist and his people want of you, under penalty of career association and a whole lot of embarrassment, is threatening enough even if you have a conscience but you love your career and reputation more. Has any one seen the God Father series or Scar Face?
            The Signers of the Norquist PLEDGE (The Taxpayer Protection Pledge Signers 112th Congressional List):
            http://s3.amazonaws.com/atrfiles/files/files/072911-federalpledgesigners.pdf
            There are, according to this site, 236 Representatives and 41 Senators for the total of 277.

            6 GOP U.S. House Non-Pledge Signers:
            NY-24 Richard Hanna, GA-07 Rob Woodall , PA-19 Todd Russell Platts, VA-01 Rob Wittman, VA-10 Frank Wolf , KS-03 Kevin Yoder,
            7 GOP U.S. Senate Pledge Non-Signers:
            IN-Sen Richard Lugar, IA-Sen Charles Grassley , ME- Sen Olympia Snowe , ME- Sen Susan Collins, MS-Sen Thad Cochran, WY- Sen John Barrasso, ND-Sen John Hoeven
            2 Dem U.S. House Pledge Signers: NJ-01 Robert Andrews and KY-06 Ben Chandler
            1 Dem U.S. Senate Pledge – Signer: NE-Sen Ben Nelson

            My opinions – I can think of the non-signors as people with both moral conscience and the guts to stand up to the betrayal and they care more for what is just and right then they do for their careers. I had to look to see who among those who represent us have betrayed us. If I were very wealthy or a big corporation and was greedy and selfish I would totally disagree with the first 2 sentences, “My opinions”, I just said in this paragraph.

            Both Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have signed The Norquist PLEDGE and that might be why Norquist says “Romney Will Do As Told”.
            http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/13/grover-norquist-speech-cpac.html

    • KG

      Bill Whittle is a lying A$$HOLE

      • Paines Ghost

        @KG,
        The most convincing argument you can come up with is to repeatedly call Bill Whittle names? Precious little doubt as to your political affiliation or your educational level and your ability to process logic. I have watched the BW video several times and there is NOTHING in it that is false.

        The real issue here is whether we re-elect the usurper or whether we elect an actual EXECUTIVE that knows how to run something other than a Chicago Machine. For those of you who are calling Wayne a LINO, take pause. Libertarian seems to me, and I lean heavily this way, to want to MINIMIZE government intrusion into our lives as much as possible. Obama is clearly into maximizing government control over our lives. We have two places we can “point our bullets” and I will point mine at the empty, corrupt vessel that now OCCUPIES the White House by voting for Romney. Is Romney the absolute number one top pick of Tea Party or Libertarians? No, but then, how long has it been since the actual CHOICE we are being asked to make is clearer?

        We are not given the choice of a moderate versus a conservative, or a conservative versus a libertarian. We do get to choose between a non-Christian STATIST who wants to see America “downsized” in the name of JUSTICE or a Christian volunteer troubleshooter with impressive credentials. We do stand on the cusp of the future for us and our progeny, and rarely has a vote been more potentially cataclysmic. If Obama is re-elected we are most certainly DOOMED to massive societal disruptions, expanded and extended poverty not just for us but for our grandchildren.

        Please use your brain in a constructive manner. Name calling is a tactic of the liberal trolls that hang out here intending nothing but disruption. Is that you?

        • George E

          Paines,

          Nice post. I agree with you.

      • SamFox

        PaiensG, Mormonism is not true Christianity. They teach a lot of junk that is not in the Bible.

        Don’t mean to go off topic, but I can’t let that misconception go unchallenged. There is a lot of proof to back that up. If you want me to get started let’s dance. :-)

        I don’t care what Mitt’s religion is. I do, but not enough to worry about it IF he were a PROVEN supporter of the Constitution, which Mitt is NOT. I once supported & voted for a Mormon for gov of my state because he was a Constitution supporter.

        There is little if any proof that Mitt comes close to being one who in real life supports the Constitution & wants it reinstated as the law of thew land. I go by what Mitt has done, not what he says. He has lied to much…

        There is however, a LOT of proof that Mitt is a double tongue two face.

        Root? I have an idea of where he is coming from, but I think he’s out to lunch.

        What a mess. What a choice! We have in 0 a definite supporter of Cloward & Piven’s collapse the system agenda in 0. That 0 is a communist, Marxist or what ever you want to call the central planned state that is emerging from 0′s ‘leadership’, there is no doubt.

        But Mitt has been two faced & duplicitous for so long, how can we tell IF or when he’s telling the truth? There is a LOT of evidence that Mitt is as bad a liar as 0.

        So, what to do? Looks like the only hope we may have is that Mitt at least slows down the demise of the USA to the speed that Bush was doing it. To me, that’s not much hope.

        SamFox .

      • Shane

        Paines Ghost, good comment.

        But many would rather shoot their foot, then continue to aim higher till their own form of perfection is obtained.

    • jed klampit

      he had the house the first 2 years and he did nada ???????

      • Robert Smith

        There is that health care thing, saving GM, and getting us out of Iraq.

        Are you in favor of denying health care to those who have a pre-existing condition?

        Rob

      • rb

        Exactly! Nada! Enabled a failing company to keep failing. (The temporary success of GM as owned by the UWA will soon be gone) They got 3 times more money than the entire value of the company. Screwed common stock holders out of their money while giving blue chip holders all of theirs and took retirement benefits away from pensioners that worked all of their lives for it. “got us out of Iraq” on the schedule Bush put forth….and then sent our men and women in higher numbers to fight a hopeless war in Afghanastan where he has kept the war going even though all of the state objectives of that war have been accomplished. Oh and Health Care? The laregest tax (Supreme Court deemed a tax) perpetrated on the middle class in the history of our country. No one is denied health care in America. It’s illegal. They may lose everything trying to pay for it but care is never denied. And lets see how much “free” health care is left when health care professionals leave the field because they no longer get paid what it costs them to treat a patient. (Already happening).

      • Daveh234

        The filibusters prevented any legislation to get through . That’s after two months in office. The fallacy of two years of majority rule is a bulls__t talking point. It is totally unpatriotic for these Republicans to tout their commitment to our country. They are committed to ham handed rule . The majority is not backing their visions for the future. We may never know since majorities usually don’t turn out to vote.

      • moonbeam

        “There is that health care thing, saving GM, and getting us out of Iraq.”

        Hey Rob, the tax payers are STILL owed more than $2 BILLION dollars from the auto bailouts that should NEVER have happened.
        http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Taxpayers-Owed-Billion-Bailouts/2012/09/11/id/451478

        That “healthcare thing” has resulted in rationing of healthcare services. I know people who this is happening to already. The death panels are commencing their murderous reign upon the American people. Meanwhile, we sit on our hands with our toes up our noses when we should be in REVOLT!

        Mr Root, you have lost your balls, my man. Romney’s a flip flopper and a LIAR. He stated (lied) publically that if elected, he would repeal ALL of obamacare. Now that rat bastard says he’s going to keep some of it. There is NO ONE to vote for. One MOFU is an illegal alien LIAR whose real father is SATAN, the other MOFU looks like a man but I think he’s a woman in drag who flip flops like a fish out of water.

        Oh we are dooooomed. I will probably stay home this election, sorry to say. I refuse to hold my nose to vote for a fake man with mittens on and the other rat bastard is an illegal alien liar whore thief. Can’t/won’t vote for him anyway. Do I sound pissed?

      • Old Henry

        Getting us out of Iraq Robert? Are you serious? We are still there with troops and paid contractors who cost us much, much more than the military.

        Saved GM? More like boosting the unions with tax payer dollars. How about the bond holders that were screwed out of their legally owed money? GM / Chrysler should have gone into bankrupcy and reorganized. Ultimately they would have come out much healthier.

      • Old Henry

        moonbeam! LMAO! What a rant! It was great and well said!

        Actually I think it is really McCain in his Romney suit. Like that space alien in his “Edgar suit” in Men In Black.

        They both will do EXACTLY what the banksters tell them to do. One in high gear, the other in first or second gear.

        Revolution is a messy business, but we are indeed quickly running out of options.

      • SamFox

        Moonbeam, DON”T STAY HOME!! GO VOTE!! You can leave the prez part blank. See what the local & state issues are if nothing else. See if there is a Constitution supporting candidate running for your state govt & if there are any decent Representatives & Senators to support.

        If we can get in a Congress that’s mostly in line with the Constitution that would be almost as great a victory as winning the WH, maybe greater.

        A Constitution minded Congress could slow 0 or Mitt down. We need at least to slow down the collapse of the USA. A decent Congress & patriots as state govs & state legislatures would be of great benefit.

        Don’t give up the fight! I have my self, 3 children & 3 grand daughters to think of.

        You must have some one to think of as well.

        Take heart. Go vote & may God grant us the stones to stand up for the way the USA is SUPPOSED TO BE & against the way R & D ‘liberal’ ‘progressives’ have been reshaping US.

        God be with.

        SamFox

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          SamFox: I just discovered that it was swampfox and not you who agreed with WAR 110% yesterday. That’s too bad. For 24 hours I thought that maybe you had your brain tumor removed. There are one too many foxes in the woods. Where’s my shotgun?

    • rb

      Kind of dark with your head up there isn’t KG? Gotta hurt your neck too.

      • KG

        Can’t be any darker than romneys? Look arround – you might want to date someone other than your sister.

    • http://none Carter

      Then why is Calif. and NY going broke?They tax the rich have unions,there.The retired union people make more retired than when they worked.Answer is the unions !!.Look at Chicago,poor quality education and they are on strike.Toyota makes a better product being non-union at less pay than GM being union and got bailed out.47% of americans live off of rich peoples taxes.Compare property taxes of the rich to lower middle class

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        Carter: Congratulations! You have been upgraded to the second worst President in American history thanks to BHO.

    • Kim

      KG Stop being ignorant.
      I don’t need more ignorant voters like this that got us in the mess to begin with.
      Feed up with stupidity.
      OHIO

      • KG

        I vote my pocketbook and my self interest. That’s the way it’s supposed to be. The problem started when the Religious Right aligned itself with the Republican party. People started voting for people who pretended to be against abortion. And for people who pretended to be against the Gays. And for people who pretended to be supporters of the troops. These people thought the only purpose of government was to regulate women’s uterus’s. No wonder our government is in chaos. Listen – just hold your nose, vote democrat, and let’s fix this thing!

      • Vicki

        “just hold your nose, vote democrat, and let’s fix this thing!”

        The fact that you have to suggest we just hold our nose to vote for a democrat tells us we musn’t

      • Old Henry

        Vickie:

        KG is so heavily propagandized I am convinced it is hopeless. I’m guessing he is a fairly recent product of our wonderful public school system.

      • Shane

        KG has shown us the level of decency within him. Thimble full.

        One would have to be able to get through the slime, before one could even begin to discuss policy differences with KG.

        Waste of time, to spend time with KG.

    • JJinCO

      If you want to return to the economy of the 50s, you need a world war first. That is why it was called a post war boom. WWII was fought in Europe and Asia. America was virtually untouched. The 50s were great because we rebuilt the world and had no competition.

      • KG

        So the rise of Labor Unions had nothing to do with middle class prosperity in the 1950′s?

        Both sets of my grandparents lived in Public housing shortly after WW2. However, because they were WHITE, they were able to get good paying UNION Jobs, buy a house and move out. However, many blacks wound up in public housing because a lot of the new housing was still RACIALLY SEGREGATED.

        Just hold your nose, vote Democrat and lets fix this thing!

        • George E

          KG,

          Times and circumstances have changed since the 1950′s. Unions don’t play the same role today that they did back then, especially in the private sector, nor is there a need for them in that role today.

      • http://norman@cates-family.com Norman F.

        JJ, it is true we rebuilt the world EXCEPT the US. We put new factories with the latest equipment (in Europe and Japan) and left our industries with 40 year old machinery. The result was a disasster for us. Then look at the OPIC law, (go to their website) which gave money to American businesses to build factories in European countries with the proviso that all the profits had to remain in the “host” countries. Follow that with a look at the Carribean Basin initiative that devestated the east coast cloth and clothing industries. Then try the Central American program, then GATT and then NAFTA and the Pacific Rim program. All done by Democrat controlled Congresses. What s next from those people?

      • SamFox

        KJ, don’t forget that the mob ran most of the unions back when. I am not against unions, I am against the corruption. What union is free of corruption? What union doesn’t support libs & progs?

        In Chicago, the ‘teachers’ average $76 thou a year.Plus bennies. And they have the audacity to strike? For heaven’s sake! They at least have jobs! Greed, like speed, KILLS! They reject a 16% pay hike over 3-4 years. They don’t teach the kids worth crap, check the test scores. What it is–they don’t want to be merit based & have a system of accountability. They do want however, to keep their pay with out having to show they are doing their job.

        I don’t know why they stuck, all they have done is expose how bad at teaching most of them really are.

        Vote Dem! Support the party that fought civil rights & opposed freeing the slaves! Sure I will! NOT!!!

        You wanna dance with that one let me know. Lotta proof to back that up. Dems DID oppose what I said.

        SamFox

      • KG

        Do you really think that the Democrat Party of today is anything like it was before 1950? Do you really think the Republican party is still the “party of Lincoln?” Man, you need some proctology work done on your eyes. The latest I heard is that Republicans are ATTACKING Lincoln because he had the audacity to keep our country together instead of allowing the “states” their “rights.” Look at a voter map of America. The entire “old” south is virtually red with Republicans. Ron Paul, probably the biggest racist next to David Duke, ran as a Republican.

        try to get your news from anything other than FOX.

    • Palin16

      Romney is not a billionaire. He has a net worth around $250 million. You must be thinking about John Kerry, who together with his wife, has a net worth of a $1 billion. Did you vote for that gay-loving billionaire back in 2004 for president? Time for a little R&R…Romney/Ryan 2012

      • Old Henry

        Yep, Kerry made his money the old fashioned way, he married it, after serving in Cambodia in 1968 under Nixon.

        • Jeff

          Yes, Kerry married money just like John McCain. But it’s OK for McCain because he’s a Republican. As for Romney, we really don’t know how much he has stashed away in Switzerland, the Cayman Islands, or in his car elevators. 250 million is the agreed-upon figure but who knows? I remember when Ford appointed Rockefeller VP and the first reports of his wealth were 5 million. Only when the entire country laughed at that did people actually examine his finances. He was worth about 5 billion.

      • Palin16

        McCain a billionaire? Gee, I did not realize that. Thanks for enlightening me.

      • KG

        Oh, thank you. I guess Romney is a “po folk.” Gee, I can’t relate to anyone with less than 300 million.

        Get with it – Romney is a rich, white, greedy basturd.

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          KG: It sounds like you are jealous of Romney’s money. He’s probably wealthier than you because he’s smarter than you. Romney knows how to spell ‘bastard’, you dumb bastard.

    • Elton

      You, Galt, and Robert need to return to what ever planet you came from

    • Doug

      KG what does that stand for King Gutless? You have no clue nobody is doing politics to destroy this country but one party and that the Demorat Socialist, Communist Progressive Marxist regime! Now there are quite a few Repukicans who are noting but Demorat infiltrators in the Repupkes party. I bet you are a union member proud members of a communist organization, you might look up in the real history books about union they came from good old Communist. So KG are you a Communist or just another stupid American? And by the way the only party I want to belong to is the conservative party one who believe in helping others help themselves and if I don’t want help get the hell out of my way!

      • Old Henry

        Ya know Doug, these people conveniently forget that the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) enthusiastically ENDORSED Little Barry just a few months ago.

        Why would that be?

      • Palin16

        Old henry…CPUSA originated in Chicago. Need I say more?

      • SamFox

        Doug, you are wrong. R’s are in the mix. You forget about the 2 Bushes? And a few other R POTUSes?

        When Ryan & other R’S vote to raise the debt ceiling they are just as bad as D’s. By & large neither of the 2 ‘parties’ wants or will cut any real spending. They pretend to differ, but that’s all Kabullki theater, a show to keep US occupied while they do their back room stuff.

        True, D’s have been corrupt, most of them any way, longer than the R’s, but overall leadership of both ‘parties’ is in the tank for big govt. Didn’t you hear Mitt’s speech? Underlying much of what Mitt said was a big govt solution.

        Just because he has an R behind his name does not make him fiscally conservative or smaller govt. Mitt & Ryan both support the ‘Patriot’ Act, Indefinite Detention & other Dem lib prog wet dreams. Don’t forget, Mitt is the grand dad of 0bama Care. And R’s proposed it 1st.

        SamFox

        • macgyver1948

          SamFox…. You do say it well, Politicians are who they want to be in from of us and then they do their thing behind closed doors. It was Reagan who proposed national health care, the GOP started working on it in the late 80s and presented a failed version to Congress in the early 90s. Mitt contributed a bunch in Massachusetts and that included “if you cannot afford health insurance we will encourage you to get it by fining you through the IRS until you do get it”. Is it any wonder Mitt says he would keep a lot of ObamaCare? I wonder if he will keep any of the things The Dems came up with.

          LOL>. You said “They pretend to differ, but that’s all Kabullki theater, a show to keep US occupied while they do their back room stuff”. That is so true. I’ve said this before here and elsewhere. What ever you think of Jessie The Body Ventura he said something that very much explains it and he should know. I’ll try to remember his quote as best I can – “Politicians are just like the WWE/F wrestlers in that hey are all act in front of the camera and behind the scenes many are friends and they ere all business”. Well, that is my paraphrasing for the moment, LOL… It is that ‘all business’ that should scare us especially since huge corporate and special interest money is guiding that business.

    • http://www.facebook.com/david.robb.1426 David Robb

      You sound just like a Liberal Dem.Just because you are not a member of his faith,you call his faith a cult.Thats like telling a Baptist there a cult if your not one.Chances youy are not a person of faith.

    • Dale left coast

      KG . . . sure left Staples in a mess eh?
      Raiding for pension funds . . . you must mean the Teamsters . . . lol
      The choice is simple . . . 4 more years of the marxist mooslim . . . or give a businessman a shot at fixing the friggin mess . . . even someone with 3 functioning brain cells should be able to figure this one out.

  • KG

    Bill Whittle is a lyingA$$HOLE/

    • Doug

      [ad hominem comment removed]

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        Doug and KG: No TV or dessert for either of you children tonight. Now go to your rooms!

  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    “Wayne Allyn Root,”

    SIR, I KNOW NOTHING OF LIBERTARIANISM.

    BUT, Wayne Allyn Root, SIR, YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE IF YOU ABANDON SOMETHING YOU “CLAIMED” YOU BELIEVED IN TO JOIN THOSE WHO YOU THINK HAVE A CHANCE. OBVIOUSLY, SIR, YOU ARE “JUMPING” WHAT YOU CONSIDER TO BE A “SINKING SHIP” IN ORDER TO BE AMONG THE HOPEFUL “WINNERS.”

    Wayne Allyn Root, IN YOUR OWN WORDS YOU SAID, “I … became the No. 1 vote-getter in the country for election to the Libertarian National Committee … Media …called me “Mr. Libertarian” … ”

    I REST MY CASE.

    NOW, YOU WANT TO CHANGE.

    MY FATHER TAUGHT ME A MAN STANDS BY HIS VALUES – ALWAYS.

    • FreedomFighter

      “MY FATHER TAUGHT ME A MAN STANDS BY HIS VALUES – ALWAYS.”

      You look at a situation and apply your value set, admireable.

      Just make sure you look at the entire sequence of events, related unintended consequences, intended effects, side effects, then reapply value set.

      You may find high value in making sure an Islamo-Commi does not get
      a 2nd term.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • deerinwater

        “You may find high value in making sure an Islamo-Commi does not get
        a 2nd term.”

        If the description fit perhaps ~ Since the GOP has spend 3.5 years and enormous amounts of money and energy to paint this “image”, I question your reasoning skills to make such a comparison. Lynch mobs are not noted for the finer points of reason.

        It was a GOP lead administration that has done the most harm to your Bill of Rights FreedomFighter , why do you elect to ignore that?

      • Smoovious Laxness

        Odd how you seem to ignore that Romney is also a Progressive, self-professed no less.

        Congratulations on allowing yourself to get sucked back in to the sideshow they play to keep our attention diverted.

        Bravo.

        Just lost a ton of respect for you, man…

        – Smoov

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          Smooth Laxative: We have two choices for President. One of them is a marxist, and the other one is a capitalist. All other information is superfluous.

      • Vigilant

        “It was a GOP lead [sic] administration that has done [sic] the most harm to your Bill of Rights FreedomFighter ,[sic] why do you elect to ignore that?”

        It has been a Democrat-led administration for the past 3 1/2 years that has continued and magnified the assault on your Bill of Rights, BobWire/Deer. Why do you elect to ignore that?”

      • speedle

        Deer in headlights says, “It was a GOP lead administration that has done the most harm to your Bill of Rights FreedomFighter , why do you elect to ignore that?”

        Nothing but slogans and placards Deer – Do you get this from some source or are you just making stuff up? Do you really have that hard of a time stepping back and seeing the big picture? Never mind. It is obvious.

      • moonbeam

        “Smooth Laxative” I’m laughing so hard i got tears streaming down my face. BRAVO! i love it! i know lots of people who need one of those to push their heads out their asses but me thinks that might take a hand grenade. In nursing, we call that a disimpaction procedure, using gloves of course. Can get quite messy and stinks like hell.

        Can’t stop laughing! “smooth laxative” BWHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA. ROTFLMAO

    • nnicko

      If you can’t recognize values then you can’t recognize the turning events of what is happening to America. Do you think 2 terms of a muslim president can make things right? If you hold a libertarian responsible for picking the better of two choices, then you are pacifier with a big-rubber in your pie hole. Hopefully, you can hide in your little den and hold out till the black cloud over America goes away. No good luck wishes here!

    • Elton

      :You have to have values before you can stand for them. Obviously you have none….

  • Michael J.

    Dear Wayne,
    The choice we’ve been presented with is a bit like asking a death row inmate to choose between death by firing squad or death by slow poison. This good cop – bad cop scenario foisted upon us by The Rothschild Dynasty will produce Romney as the next POTUS designate unless the vote count is only 1 to 2 percent in Romney’s favor. At that point Soros’s Spain based creative vote counting machine will kick in and Obama will provail. Either way we are screwed.

    In my neck of the woods, there is a boom happening in response to the coming 2013 Obama inspired Taxmagedon. If Romney wins the boom will continue because of renewed confidence of the un-informed sheeple. This boom will however be short lived. If Obama wins on Nov.6th, the effect on the economy will be that of turning off a light switch, as happened in 2008. Consider yourselves warned.

    • deerinwater

      What industry fuel this boom Michael and what area of the nation are you in?

      • Michael J.

        bobinwater,
        I am a wood flooring contractor and ply my trade almost exclusively 60 miles west of Grand Bahama Island on the wealthiest stretch of real estate the planet has to offer. The 1/2 mile wide strip of land is seperated from main land USA by a narrow ribbon of salt water known as The Intercoastal Waterway.

    • Jon

      I think the inmate’s choice is more like deciding between an immediate hanging or a ten second head start before the guards open fire. Even a small chance is better than none. Personally, I don’t believe that Romney, if elected, will successfully save the country from what’s coming. But I am certain that Obama will absolutely destroy the country. Some choice. As I hear Wayne’s talk, I get that he is looking at this the way I am.

    • Marty S.

      Gun sales are booming and will increase astronomically if Obama is re-elected while the rest of the economy is toast.

  • Peter

    Unsubscribe

  • Alex

    Wow, Wayne, what a crock….

    There has been no doubt about your slurping up Mitt Romney, not at all, not in my house.
    No news, here, Wayne. By the way, do you really think people are waiting around for
    the “Big Announcement” from some hack? Really?

    If I remember correctly, and I usually do, you claimed to have not known or even seen
    Barack Obama while you were at Columbia University—and now you want to somehow
    trade on the idea that you may have some insight into the President by saying, “As Obama’s college classmate…”

    HAA! What a dork….

    • nnicko

      Alex…take off the blinders you goof…..root has to assume because obozo has all his records sealed. Unseal your record of a brain and look what’s happening….apparently the left wing has no respect for their fellow americans. From naming nam vets, baby-killers to saying okay to abortion in America and having no respect for our veterans who are survivors or who have not survived. An ambassedor is dead and along with 3 marines and you look up to a muslim president and question someone who recognizes that the enemy is in our borders even as close as the white house. wake up Americans or die in your sleep!

    • Tony

      They ONLY reason I voted for Bob Barr and Wayne Allyn Root was to try to maintain my state’s ballot status for another term. Unfortunately, that was not to happen. Frankly, I am shedding no tears that Root defected to the GOP! He never was a true libertarian in the first place! If he or anyone else thinks Romney is going to be the savior of the GOP, it’s time to sit the hell down and get a grip and have a remedial course in reality!

      The GOP has had chances upon chances to try to turn this country around and have been less than successful! While Reagan brought some level of competence to the office, he was lackadaisical in numerous areas; such as foreign policy, the deficit, encroachments on civil liberties, and so forth! The two Bushes were a disaster, and the only reason why “W” was elected twice is because the Dems put up goose eggs! The GOP has had their fair share of goose eggs too; not the least of whom include Ford, Dole and McCain. From what I see, Romney seems to fall right into that category as well!

      For the life of me, with conservatives supposedly having controlling interest in the GOP, I cannot begin to comprehend how ANYONE in the ‘con-servative’ movement could even begin to consider Romney as a choice! This man WILL NOT be the salvation that the GOP wants or needs! On the right to keep and bear arms, he earned a D-MINUS from the Gun Owners of America! That was the WORST of ANY GOP candidate! Even Santorum and Gingrich scored better! I don’t see Massachusetts as being a model for economic growth! Yeah, he might be better than, say, Dukakis was; but by how much?

      Many in the GOP think that just because ‘their guy isn’t as bad as the other’ is NO excuse! I remember back in the 2006 election listening to a talk show where a caller mentioned that he was voting a straight Democratic ticket to get all the ‘dead weight’ out of office who he felt betrayed him! This was in spite of the fact that he was a conservative Republican! Now while I think such a move was foolish (I would’ve voted minor party or independent before doing so), I can’t say I blame the guy! I DON’T think this guy was alone in his thinking either! It goes to show that the GOP had better put up or shut up! Either run serious candidates promoting the causes of liberty or don’t bother! Remember when the GOP was losing its influence in Congress by 1986 and again in 2006? Well, it ought to teach the GOP a serious lesson! MEDIOCRITY WILL GET YOU NO PLACE!

      I know many, particularly in the GOP, but some leftists as well, often cry and pout when they see their candidate lost in a plurality! Well, if your candidate wasn’t so mediocre, this wouldn’t happen!

      I can’t go any further without talking about stances on issues which the GOP has taken on which are hurting it. These include the assaults on civil liberties, foreign policy and the lack of educating the public on how to replace government programs with market-based solutions. If it is wrong for the government to fish out of another’s wallet to pay for some social program, it is wrong to spy in another’s bedroom! Our foreign policy should NOT be dictated by special interests hell bent on trying to bankrupt this country. For about 100 years now, this has been the case! Our country and our economy are suffering because of it! We are NOT beholden to foreign interests here! We’re beholden to the Unites States of America first, foremost and forever! Foreign interests need to understand this and get their own affairs in order. When social programs disappear, there needs to be a substitution of the service for those whose lives it will effect.

      In 1992, after seeing the lackadaisical performance of “Poppa” Bush, knowing that Clinton was just going to be another “Jimmy Carter”, and eventually realizing that Perot was nothing more than a ‘petty-fascist’, I decided to get involved with the Libertarian party and never looked back! That was the first year I voted Libertarian for president, and I’ve done so ever since! Unless something better comes along, I’ll continue doing so! If the GOP wants me back, have the Republican Liberty Caucus take controlling interest in the GOP and NOT compromise on the Constitution and principle!

      Most of what my (allied) compatriots have said here I agree with, so I will not repeat it!

  • Peter Cornstalk

    This guy is a bought and paid for NEOCON and is no Libertarian. What a joke!

    • Dave Chumley

      PETER, If Mr. Root had spent as much time and effort in getting elected as he has in tearing down the Libertarian Party lately. We would not have had to endure the “perils”
      of Obama and his cronies. BUT, he didn’t even campaign enough to have people know where he stood. He seems concerned with that now and I wish we could have seen his true colors before we nominated him and got somebody who believed in liberty.

    • Mamamia

      “LIKE”

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore 124andmore

        Mamamia: ME LIKE PIZZA!

    • DaveH

      Ditto, you guys.
      First he advocates supporting Israel with other peoples’ money. Then he endorses Romney.
      Wayne Allen Root is NO Libertarian.

      • DaveH

        I think it’s obvious that Wayne is considering another run at being a candidate. Perhaps that’s why he’s willing to compromise his Libertarian Principles (if he ever had any). This is exactly why, even if we vote Libertarian, we need to be eternally vigilant, because the draw to Power is a powerful drug. So we need to vet our candidates carefully, and try our best to keep the Crony Capitalists from infiltrating the Libertarian Party.

      • Michael J.

        DaveH,
        Nothing good ever comes from Columbia University. Wayne trying to convince us otherwise is a bit like Obama stating he was not influenced by 20 years in the pew listening to Rev. Wright.

        My own personal observation prompts me to believe that Mr. Root operates with the scruples of a used car salesman on steroids.

  • Deerinwater

    And this is suppose to be some sort of revelation? The self labeled Conservative today would cut of their nose to spite their face. Of course they will vote for Mitt Romney ! Found not have not enough conviction or brass to write in Ron Paul, refusing to support what they believe and it easier to blame a democrat for their self inflicted wounds.

    And Vicky, the use of percentages is employed to determine tax rated and the percentages the wealthy pay today is less then the middle class varying for 7 to 10 % less.

    • DaveH

      These are from actual IRS receipts, Deer, NOT from Income tax tables before deductions and credits:
      http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

      The Rich pay far more than their share of the Income Taxes. And they only get one vote each, just like the Liberal Progressives who get one vote each to steal other peoples’ money.

      The only truly “Fair” tax would be one where each voting adult is required to pay the same amount.

      The Distribution of Wealth through the income tax is simply one of many vehicles that the Politicians use to get re-elected over and over again. They are making fools of the Followers.

    • Michael J.

      Deerinwire,
      Untamed rhetoric based upon leftist pipedreams. We are now faced with choosing between slow death and Obamagedon.

  • Fed up

    Forward to everyone…

  • Richids Coulter

    Pretty disgraceful that someone who claims to understand Libertarian principles thinks that a man who wants to ensure the federal government has control over a woman’s body and who is dying to go to war with Iran is somehow better than Obummer for president. So you say you’re voting for the lesser of two evils? Tell me, how has voting for evil been working for you.

    Romney fully supports John McCain’s wording changes to the NDAA that allows ANY American citizen to be detained indefinitely without due process, that’s small government?

    No matter which of these corporatist fascists gets elected it will be business as usual, hasn’t Ron Paul taught you anything Wayne?

    • JJinCO

      Yes, he has learned from Dr. Paul. Ron Paul, after making little progress in the Libertarian party, is making a difference from within the Republican Party. Fire Democrats. Make Democrats walk their smaller, Constitutional government talk.

      • plasmarules

        Unfortunately Ron Paul is not really like any other candidate, he only went REP because he knew his message might reach a larger audience – ie, he’d be included (if you can call 89 seconds in the one debate “included”) in the debates on television.

        Here’s the kind of guy Rmoney is – he along with the GOP ensured that the rules changed and properly elected delegates were challenged so that Paul didn’t officially win five states and wouldn’t automatically be granted a 15 minute speaking slot at the convention, then they offered him a speaking slot if a) they got to vet his speech and b) he officially endorsed the big government candidate.

        Anyone that seriously thinks Mitt Romney is going to be different than Barack Obama has learned nothing in the last 49 years. Here’s a look at Obama’s responses and Romney’s responses – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiL1MlOmi1k

      • DaveH

        What does that have to do with electing a NeoConservative Progressive, JJinCO?

    • Kim

      Richids:

      How’s President O’bama working out for you now?
      I didn’t vote him in.

      You must like the 16 trillions dollars in debt.
      Let me get this straight….
      You think it okay to cultivate a government that takes from you what you rightly earned.
      Grow that government rather the individual…
      Not that true liberation for you.

      Great.
      That’s America… at it’s most exceptionalism.
      We’re paying for this…. and our children most certainly will be paying for this….
      for one hell of long time.
      Life hard enough….but our children who are not even there yet….will pay dearly.

      How safe to do you fell this morning….right now!!!
      When we had a diplomatic ambassador slaughtered in streets of Eygpt.
      You don’t think that this was planned, plotted by terrorist factions….9-11.
      Not to mention the many in this country who are still hurting from those wounds.
      Now, we have embassy under siege in Egypt, Lybia and Iran is fired up and ready go.

      With “intel” to see these rioter building…no action taken.
      Please, it took what all of 9 hours for this White House to make what….
      “Make a Statement.”
      How’s that for leadership for you…
      Apologize to rioters!!
      I can’t imagine what the family most be feeling let alone thinking that their loved ones where slaughter and this President and White House didn’t even respond to act right off.
      While out campaigning in Vegas.
      When they do it’s to attack a Presidential contender who has the right to respond.
      I feel so much safer today….
      Do you?

      We have the Israel’s Prime Minister in our country.
      Blow off once again by this administration…for what his faith for being Jewish.
      Because of the faith has to be constantly vigilant and “on watch” to defend his people.
      Hell, we can’t even respond to defend our killed ambassador.
      All the while this country based on faith basis rights…has been under assault in the belly of this country for a long time.
      How’s your faith, your family systems looking to you now?

      How great is that public servant you employed in this office at mine and so many expense.
      I’m sick and tired of reverse discrimination to loud mouths with no backbone.
      Who pander to women, attacking life, promoting contraception, paying for abortion, ginning up the ignorance towards others for their achievement.
      Who can’t even defend this country oversea when it’s needed to respond.
      Please, don’t even write and tell me how he’s responded today to Middle East.

      Tell me, is their Libertarian ini there for you to vote?
      Your argument….is baseless.
      What’s worse is you don’t even see a clear choice by that now.
      It’s very clear to me,
      To see why Wayne Allen Root is making the stance he has too.
      Put up, shut up or vote ignorant.
      Note, I’m out here and so many others are too…
      Give me a break.

      ple

      • plasmarules

        How’s Obama working out for me? I don’t know what passes for reading comprehension here but where on Earth do you get that I support Obama, when all I’m posting is that Obama = Romney and I will not vote for Barritt Obamney. Your post lost me at the first sentence, no else here likely has a clue who you’re responding to.

    • Doug

      Gee Richids you don’t look like a woman but I bet you take like one! Do you have the other cue cards from the Demorats to tell us about? Here one time I wish a woman would have had and abortion and that would be your mother! No ones taking the right from woman to kill their babies but people who don’t believe in it sure as hell should not pay for it. I think people with names like Richids should pay for all my baseball equipment because it my right to play baseball is that okay with you Richids? Let me ask you a question if someone shoots a pregnant woman in the stomach why does the justice system charge him with two murders if she dies and the baby dies? But if a woman decides to abort their baby its not murder can you tell me the difference????

      • plasmarules

        Doug you’re an idiot. It’s clear you misunderstood just about everything in my post.

        Obama = Romney. If you think Romney is the lesser evil my comment was, how is voting for evil working out for you?

        Gary Johnson 2012. it’s clear you’re full of hatred the way you talk, I pity you. Do you hear that? I pity you. You’re not worthy of further discussion.
        ~Richids

  • Stephan F.

    I completely agree Wayne. All decent freedom loving people need to band together now and drive this fascists from office with abandon. Our absolute first priority must be to veer the ship away from this direct march toward tyrannical destruction Obombma has us on. And it matters not which candidate or party gets the credit as long as we change course now, even if it’s not the precise one others may desire.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      All decent freedom loving people need to band together and get Constitutional Sheriff’s voted into office and then kick the feds out of their counties and states. Ignore their “laws” since 99% violate the 10th amendment and take our COUNTRY back from the psychos that have taken control of the Federal slavery apparatus. WAKE UP and quit helping them exist through your vote. Voting only legitimizes a totally busted system. Read the Declaration of Independence and realize that they govern with OUR consent. Mine has been withdrawn since January 2002 when I realized the FEDS were behind 9/11.

      • Stephan F.

        Ahem, Mr. Reynolds:

        Your arguments miss the point. Will the Romney Republicans reverse the course of govt expansion & give us our freedom back? Hardly. But that’s not the most important issue we presently face, not by a long shot. People like W.A.R & myself know quite well whom we’re dealing with. Of course Romney’s a putz. He’s multiply parsecs away from being a Ron Paul. Anyone with grey matter knows this. What you & others don’t seem to realize is a much much more important issue, one that buzzed by your brain like a Nolan Ryan fast-ball.

        I am 100% confident that the current tyrant-in-chief will absolutely expand govt power significantly. A re-elected Obama & his criminal cabal will oppress citizens with more stifling govt rules-regulations & restrictions that can only lead to a much lower standard of living and will permanently seal the country in a perpetual state of depression. Allow Obamba to be reelected & you just might not be able to exercise you right to vote again. Now, it seems to me that your mindset here is “well, since I’m pretty sure Republicans won’t advance the cause of freedom & liberty, then it’s ok that we just allow the Demo(n)crats reelection and thus destroy the country. Really?

        Secondly, you people who declare: “I will absolutely not voted for that slime-ball republican because I refuse to violate my principles. Look at me & my disciplined ideology.” Well aren’t you special. Pleezeeee. This popular view is held by many freedom advocates, mostly newbies to the game. But there’s only one problem with it; it could well contribute to the final straw on the camels back and the end of your freedoms as you know them.

        Regards

      • DaveH

        Stephan says — “All decent freedom loving people need to band together now and drive this fascists from office with abandon”.
        What kind of decent people, Stephan, rubber-stamp evil, lesser or not?
        What good does it do to replace one fascist with another?
        What has “buzzed by your brain”, Stephan, is that we can never get to Freedom by continuing to elect Politicians who don’t believe in it. And they will always present that choice to us, until we stop buying it, Stephan.

      • DaveH

        You need to wake up to the reality, Stephan, that there are a relatively small group of people who buy our elections and populate our Government (especially Federal), and they don’t really care if it’s Obama who is stealing our Freedom, or Romney, as long as they get protection from competition and Free Choice in the Marketplace. Quit being a stooge, Stephan.
        Here’s just one example:
        http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-09/goldman-sachs-leads-split-with-obama-as-ge-jilts-him-too.html
        They were supporting Obama in 2008. Now they’ve probably realized that he’s a loose cannon who might turn on them, so they’re supporting Romney. Our country will continue to decline in both Freedom and Prosperity until people like you, Stephan, develop enough “grey matter” to draw a line in the sand and quit underwriting evil.

  • jed klampit

    kick out the bums and all the czars get these jerks out of my government

    • Jim C.

      jed: It’s my government too. That’s why I care deeply about who is President. Apparently you don’t care enough about your country to inform yourself, in an intelligent way, about what the two candidates believe and what they would do if elected. To think that Romney and Obama are basically the same is nonsensical. They could not be more different. My first Presidential vote was for Goldwater in 1964 because I knew his ideas were starkly different from Johnson’s, and I’ll vote for Romney instead of Obama this year for the very same reason. Wayne Root clearly spelled out the stark, and critical, differences between Romney and Obama, and you would do well to seriously consider them if you really care about your country (and yourself, for that matter).

  • Tazio2013

    Two great quotes from Alex re Wayne’s incredibly silly “Big Announcement”: “Wow, Wayne, what a crock….” and “HAA! What a dork….”

    And for those of you who appreciate open-mindedness, clear thinking and objective reality:

    1984 in 2012 – The Assault on Reason by Allan R. Gregg

    Understanding the world or explaining phenomena through superstition, dogma and orthodoxy – instead of facts and reason – invariably leads to some very ugly and uncivilized behaviour. The reason for this is fairly straightforward – namely, beliefs that are rooted in superstition, dogma and orthodoxy are not sustainable … sooner or later their veracity will be tested by facts and evidence. Those who need these beliefs to sustain their interests and power therefore must enforce at the point of a sword or remove those who might prove them to be untrue.

    Orwell’s claim that “Ignorance is Strength” might have been the clever writing of a satirist at the height of his talents but it was also much more than that. It is his most dire warning. Abolitionist and newspaper publisher Fredrick Douglas said that it was illiteracy more than the lash that gave slaveholders power over black men and women. Orwell was making a similar point… the suppression of knowledge and reason is the tyrant’s most powerful tool… and the greatest threat to freedom. “Orthodoxy,” he said, “means not thinking – not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness”.

    Of course, the opposite is also true. The greater the knowledge and education of a population, the more difficult it is to oppress them. As Steven Pinker notes in his new book “The Better Nature of our Angels” … “The subversive power of the flow of information and people has never been lost on political and religious tyrants. This is why they suppress speech, writing and associations and why democracies protect these channels in their bills of rights” (p. 179).

    In fact, in a triumph of his own research and command of reason, Pinker makes a compelling case that the hallmark of modern history has been a progressive decline in violence, accompanied by a steady upward trajectory of civilized, humane and peaceful behaviour. More than anything else, it has been the embracing of reason and enlightened thinking that has moved civilization forward.

    http://allangregg.com/?p=80

    If we survived 8 years of Cheney Bush & The Zionist Neocons, we will undoubtably survive 8 years of BHO & Company.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      Ignorance of the masses is strength to the oppressors. That is why THEY control the gooberment edukashun centers….a quote out of Ride With the Devil starring Toby McGuire…the best movie ever done on the war for southern independence.

      (Mr. Evans) Have you ever been to Lawrence, Kansas, young man?

      (Jack Bull Chiles) No, I reckon not, Mr. Evans.
      I don’t believe I’d be too welcome in Lawrence.

      (Mr. Evans) I didn’t think so. Before this war began,
      my business took me there often.
      As I saw those Northerners build that town,
      I witnessed the seeds of our destruction being sown.
      The foundin’ of that town was truly the beginnin’ of the Yankee invasion.
      I’m not speakin’ of numbers,
      nor even abolitionist trouble-makin’.
      It was the schoolhouse.
      Before they built their church, even, they built that schoolhouse.
      And they let in every tailor’s son…
      and every farmer’s daughter in that country.

      (Jack Bull Chiles) Spellin’ won’t help you hold a plow any firmer.
      Or a gun either.

      (Mr. Evans) No, it won’t, Mr. Chiles. But my point is merely…
      that they rounded every pup up into that schoolhouse…
      because they fancied that everyone should think…
      and talk the same free-thinkin’ way they do…
      with no regard to station, custom,
      propriety.
      And that is why they will win.
      Because they believe everyone should live and think just like them.
      And we shall lose because we don’t care one way or another…
      how they live.
      We just worry about ourselves.

      And HOW MANY OF YOU SEND YOUR CHILDREN OFF TO THESE INDOCTRINATION CENTERS TO HAVE THEIR BRAINS MADE INTO MUSH? Stop buying the rope to hang yourself with. KNOWLEDGE is what makes us FREE. IGNORANCE is what keeps us SLAVES.

    • DaveK

      Tazio, that is some good stuff. Ignorance of the masses is strength for the power. I remember Cheney after getting his boss and he elected in ’04, saying the democrats will ne—; it will be a long time before they ever get elected again. And why shouldn’t he have thought so They owned television and radio media which poured an onslaught of negativity on John Kerry. They controlled the voting machines with help from the CEO of Diebold (maker of most voting machines) “delivering” Ohio like he said he would, and an assist from hundreds of thousands of pulpits (puppets) preaching the gospel of wealth, the Christianity of hating homosexuals, and legislation to prevent women’s choice (instead of funding and creating the means to raise unwanted births).

      Cheney underestimated the internet as a means of grass roots organization and because of that Obama caught them be surprise.

      Now the Republicans have an enormous presence on the internet, such as this column and thousands of paid demoters of the President spewing lies over and over and over… If you say it often enough, people will believe it–point of fact: look at what some of the people on this blog believe. The “liberal media” owned by corporate America (did you ever see a television station owned by a poor person?) promotes the values of the rich to make them richer.

      The United States has the lowest taxes in decades. The upper 3 percent made 75 percent of the money last year. These people don’t support small business, they support big business. The only small businesses they support are house cleaning and lawn care. In 2006 (wikipedia) there were over 18,000 “small businesses” with over 500 employees and they provide half the jobs of all small businesses. Large corporations (the rich) don’t like small businesses except to buy them and expand their business.

      Wayne Allen Root never knew anyone who ever heard of Obama at Columbia. Now he says he has been saying that Obama was hanging with the Communist professors, there and Root says he’s been saying it for four years. If he repeats this enough times, even he will start to believe it.

      • Doug

        Hey Dave show me his real SS card, or how about a real Birth Certificate or how about any school records. Hell Dave maybe you can tell me why him and his pretend mate lost their law license. Or Dave how about even proving these two children they say our their offsprings are even their children. Dave prove something okay!

  • willie lee

    Wayne is absolutely correct, enough said. The rest of you armchair pundits who think they can outlast Obama if he get re-elected will find themselves in a FEMA camp, dead or trying to make a go of it on a deserted isle. Or mumbling long live Obama with a chip in your hand.

    • Mamamia

      (capital) B (capital) S

  • Rick

    Need to be able to share this on Facebook!!!!

  • jay Lindberg

    You are not America’s leading Libertarian. That post goes to Ron Paul. You are a corporate shill for the GOP. You are also a lying POS. (Piece of ) you can figure it out. We wont get fooled again. Jay Lindberg

    • JJinCO

      You do know that Ron Paul ran for the GOP nomination? I supported Ron Paul, but I will follow his lead: If you can’t beat them, join them. Dr. Paul is a principled libertarian, but has done more good within the GOP than he did as a Libertarian or independent.

    • I’m No Pollyanna

      Of course you won’t be fooled again. You have been sucked in by Obama’s garbage!

  • http://cashbreak.com/refer.asp?m=910294 doug

    I hope you are right Wayne about this election. 0bama might just win reelection because too many Americans are on the dole getting a hand-out of some kind-of sucking on the tit of their neighbor’s larger paycheck. Nearly 50% ?! How many of those would vote to end that privilege? Because they are deadbeat freeloaders.

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  • Ken Van Doren

    Headline should read: “Why America’s Leading PSEUDO-Libertarian is jumping ship for the GOP” Root was always more opportunist than Libertarian. While I quit the party some years ago, it will be better off without him. For me, the Barr-Root ticket was more than I could stand. If I have to compromise ideals, better it be in a party that barely pretends to have any, and has a chance at success, than a “party of principle” that has lost its way and HAS no chance.

  • John Hasse

    Yes, but. While it is true that ruin and bankruptcy in 10 years is probably preferable to ruin in 3 years, I don’t believe the difference is worth a compromise in principle. I decided some years ago that the better of two evils, was still, well, EVIL, and I was not going to vote for evil. Have a good day, and go in peace.

  • Robert

    Taxing the rich and giving to the poor is a croc. The poor exist due to bad education and lack of work. Romney is controlled and reports to the Jewish world elite that created the New World Order but will do more for us economically in the short run than will Obama. Let us have fewer taxes for all, to allow us to spend more creating more jobs, spending more money, creating more jobs, etc. Taxing the rich and so on is political hype, does nothing for anyone except talking about it might get some ignorant souls to vote for that hypocrite.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      The poor exist because of low IQ, lack of incentive, inability to see past the next six pack of beer or lottery ticket. And of course since edukashun today is nothing but indoctrination into state worship, that too does not help. Without the rich investing in business and enterprise, there would be no work for most of the population. I have a son who made $4 grand in less than two days. He never went to college and was home
      schooled. He is a salesman and can sell ice to Eskimos. He has a high IQ and has INCENTIVE. Most folks that are poor are lazy as hell. I’ve known a number of them.

      • KG

        I guess selling Meth in the trailer park is really profitable. Or did he whore out his sister? Just remember, “always get that money!”

      • Warrior

        You’ll have to excuse “wires crossed”, he’s one of those “red” blooded amerikans. He likes to show it at party functions with his spiffy red shirt. Go get em tiger.

      • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

        KG-no he whored out your mother you brain dead lemming. And Warrior…you comparing me to a communist? You apparently wouldn’t know one even if his red white and blue [expletive deleted].

      • Warrior

        actually Mark, I was referring to little kg-b. He thinks as soon as the whole world is unionized, everyone will be in spades!

  • Fancyshawl

    Instead of endorsing Romney, who is Obama in white skin, you should have sent out a mass communication to all the undecided AND the Ron Paul supporters to support Gary Johnson or to petition the states to actually count write-in votes. If people KNEW that there is a third choice, perhaps the revolution could continue on a larger scale. Too many people listen to mainstream media and that’s why they don’t KNOW there is another choice. And thus you have tons of people who are not going to show up to vote because they don’t like EITHER candidate.

  • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

    Maybe by some stretch of the imagination the folks that are running the states will wake up and tell Odumba or the Romney Ken Doll that WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH and take their toys and go home. WE DON’T NEED the current Federal Government for ANYTHING. And if Odumba gets in and “they” want a civil war, I can say that it won’t be civil. We the people are arming to the teeth and we outnumber them about 1000 to one, so what kind of war is it going to be when everyone that works for the feds that goes against the people is hunted down and shot like the mangy dogs they are? I say, bring it on, let’s get it over and start from scratch with a voluntary society with voluntary agreements and stop acting like a bunch of scared kiddies worrying about the monster in their closet. EVERYONE is going to die. I’d rather die fighting for liberty then in an old folks home choking on my vomit not able to get up to take a piss. Anyone who is on this group and can’t think like Patrick Henry did at the age of 38 so many years ago needs to go back and start sucking on mommies tit again. That includes the butt kissing wacko that did this article.

    • Mamamia

      Wow. Tell us how you really feel. “Thumbs Up”

  • http://jgbrady.aegauthorblogs.com Jim

    I would encourage ALL libertarians to follow Wayne on this one! We cannot afford to have one single vote go to a “well intentioned” but futile candidate in the Libertarian Party. We must join hands in this cycle to prevent Obama from finishing his planned destruction of our economy as pointed out by Wayne.

    You must put our Country before your Party this year. All Libertarians should insist that we elect Mitt Romney and get rid of Obama. The Libertarian cause can be advanced further by becoming influential with Republicans than by splitting the vote and allowing Obama to destroy our Nation.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      When are we all going to WAKE UP from our sleep in the Matrix and realize that the system is broken way beyond repair. Watch Hacked Democracy if you seriously believe we have any chance of voting in anyone other then who “they” want. The country has been taken over at the federal level by card carrying communists and we need to realize it, and quit playing THEIR game. PERIOD. Live your life like this…Don’t even TRY to understand, just find a place and make your stand and take it easy. If “they” attack me, I will respond and do the best I can to make sure that I take as many with me to the promised land as possible. Hopefully 100 or more. Screw them and screw this totally effed up system. I have about as much hope if Romney the Ken Doll gets in as if the Illegal Alien gets back in. WE THE PEOPLE need to take control at the local level and plan on doing what we need to to get the feds off our backs and out of our lives. I get so sick of reading the posts of a bunch whiny tit sucking babies. Oh, let’s get behind the lying flip flopping psychotic Romney because he’s better than the lying flip flopping current psycho. Gag me with a place setting.

      • DaveH

        I feel your pain, Mark.

  • Joanio57

    I think what Mr. Root is trying to do is to bring us all together so that we actually can elect the lesser of two evils. I agree with him that another 4 years of Obama means death to this country as we have known it. How much better will Romney be? No one can know, but I’d rather take a chance on him than allow Obama to get re-elected because we on the right can’t agree to disagree enough to pull our future out of the fire. THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE THIS FALL however is electing legislators who are Constitutionalists rather than Socialists.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      The most important thing to do is to elect a Constitutional Sheriff that is willing to deputize his whole county if necessary. We’ve had enough of the game playing. The 1% can kiss my lily white ass.

      • I’m No Pollyanna

        WHEN Obama gets re-elected, because you, the minority Libertarian rebels vote him in by way of NOT voting for Romney, you can be proud that you have begun Armagedden right here in the good old Excited States of America! I have seen it. You figure it out. And, if you have ANY education whatsoever, you will understand that the Mark Antony referred to here is the close friend of Julius Caesar, not JLo’s ex! I was informed, in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, that “Barack Omama is akin to Mark Antony and Adolph Hitler”, just two weeks prior to the last election. By whom, you may ask? By instinct; my gut; a higher power….whatever you may wish to call it. But as far-fetched and over the top as it seemed at the time, I made the choice to NOT vote for Obama. Now I understand why. That impression that I received was RIGHT. He is ABSOLUTELY akin to those Historical entities! AND YOU AND MANY OTHERS LIKE YOU, DON’T GET IT!!!

        • Jeff

          Polly:

          If all you can do is compare someone to Hitler, you clearly have nothing worthwhile to say. Read something, learn something before you demonstrate your incredible ignorance in public.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… It appears to be so easy for those whose minds are so susceptible to programming from those who hate to throw hateful names at those who have the audacity to not agree with and join them. How much more UN-American can that get? It is so laughable to hear the coded minds call Obama a commie, Hitler or refer to him as the anti-Christ; what dim-witted jokes those are. I thought children got over that when we grow up.

            It is also funny to see those rallies on video where the attendees are asked why they are their and what they oppose. The funny parts are they do not know why they say the things they do, why they feel how they feel, they seem to feel only compelled to say them. Oh well, time for Tea… LOL

          • George E

            I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but I really can’t tell the difference between the things Obama does, and wants to do, and what a socialist would do. If you can help me understand the priniciple differences, then I’ll be happy to refer to him as a liberal instead.

          • Jeff

            Nationalize the oil and coal industries, single-payer health care, guaranteed housing for all citizens. But the difference between capitalism isn’t just in what can be offered to people but in how the economy is organized. As long as businesses, and I’m talking about big business, is in private hands and the profits go to private concerns, the tax rate going up or down a few per cent does not define the difference between the two systems.

            It’s like saying you want to call W a chimpanzee and asking me seriously what is the difference between W and a chimpanzee. While rhetorically it works nicely, the reality was he was just a stupid man.

            Obama is not a socialist because he is not nationalizing industries. Now, you can say socialists want higher taxes on the wealthy and they’re in favor of gay marriage. So is Obama so he’s a socialist. This is poor logic. The difference between Ayn Rand and Lenin is not 5% in marginal tax rates.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Yep, nicely stated…. :-)))

          • George E

            Jeff,

            Here’s an article that helps crystallize the question whether Obama is a socialist or not. http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/01/22/is-president-obama-truly-a-socialist/2/

          • Jeff

            It is Forbes you’re reading, so consider the source. You can take statements from anyone and make them look like whatever you want. Like an interview where the question is asked and some random quote is used as a response. Obama is well to the right of even the conservative parties in Europe. The Tories in England and their counterparts do not question the importance of the national healthcare services. Obama’s healthcare plan isn’t even close to a single-payer, government run system.

            The progressive income tax has been around a long time, and tax rates are currently lower than they’ve ever been. Obama wants to raise them slightly. They’d still be lower than they were under Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Bush 41. Does that mean they were all socialists?

            Why is it “legitimate” and “responsible” to cut taxes and wage wars of conquest/occupation but it is “irresponsible” to restore more reasonable tax rates (that didn’t hurt the economy in the 90s) in order to invest in our own country? Putting a label on something doesn’t mean anything. Most teachers are paid by the State. Is that a bad thing?

            We have a mixed economy and nothing Romney will do will change that. It’s a question of where the few discretionary dollars will go. Romney is surprisingly short on details for a CEO fix-it kind of guy. He wants to balance the budget by getting rid of tax deductions, presumably like the mortgage interest deduction. Is he kidding? What would that do to the tottering housing market? What would Donald Trump say? Can you imagine any Congress voting to eliminate the one tax savings middle class people can take advantage of?

            It’s like running on getting rid of waste and abuse. Every one of those deductions (loopholes in Romney speak) was bought and paid for by special interest groups who hired expensive lobbyists. Do you think all those tax breaks are just going to go away quietly because Romney says so? If you do, I’ve got a bridge you can build condos on.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            It seems to me that Democrats are SO married ot the idea of raising taxes on the “rich”, that I guess until Republicans give in on that point, we can’t even discuss cutting spending, which is by far the biggest challenge. If I had my way, I’d tell you “OK” we’ll agree to raise the $200 billion in new taxes on the rich that Obama proposes if you’ll agree to cut the remaining $800 billion from existing government spending, and lock that number in for the next 10 years, so long as the cuts to defense can’t be more than 25% of the total cuts. How’s that for trying to solve this problem? I don’t think this is the best solution for our economy, but not bringing the budget in balance is going to hurt us a lot by itself.

          • Jeff

            I don’t think you understand the Republicans. They don’t want to cut a dime from defense. They want to increase the defense budget so they look strong politically. And they want to do it while cutting taxes. If they get power, deficit reduction will be the last thing on their agenda except when domestic spending comes up.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I don’t think you understand Republicans very well. We don’t “prefer” cutting defense spending, especially if that means letting a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse to continue. We need a strong defense. On the other hand, they have agreed to cuts in defense in the past and they will again. How many cuts have Democrats agreed to in domestic spending? Still, we’ve got to come together on this issue and find common ground before our country goes over the cliff. There should be some give and take on both sides.

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            Jeff: Islamists are causing problems throughout the middle east, Chinese ships are threatening Japan over disputed islands, our Secretary of Defense is promising to defend Japan, and our President holds hands with Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev and whispers post-election promises in his ear. The only people in the entire world who don’t recognize that we have a weak President is one-half of the American voters. This is not the time to cut one cent from the military.

          • Jeff

            Just because Obama doesn’t beat his chest like a banty rooster like his predecessor doesn’t mean he’s weak. Our relations with most of the rest of the world are far better than under the unspeakable W, and he’s done a far better job fighting Al Quaeda. I know you don’t understand that, but most voters do.

            A clenched jaw and talking tough may appeal to boobs like you, but it means nothing to foreign leaders.

          • George E

            Unfortunately for us, Obama demonstrates weakness to our “enemies” and foreign leaders who negotiate with us. That’s not going to bode well for America so long as he is in office.

          • Jeff

            Who?
            What?
            Where?
            When?
            Why?
            How?

          • George E
          • macgyver1948

            George E… You do realize to convince someone of something you have to use sources they have faith in. It is like Evangelical Christians trying to convince Jews from the New Testament how wrong Jews are…

          • George E

            That would be helpful, but you take what you can get. I didn’t spend a lot of tiime digging these out. In the end, I don’t expect to convince Jeff that he’s wrong, nor is he going to convince me that I’m wrong. I’m just trying to make a case, even if it’s not the strongest effort possible. I know there are sources out there making counter arguments on behalf of Obama. Throw it all in the pot and add some personal judgement to make a stew…….

          • Jeff

            George:

            The difference is your stuff is all opinion. I can dig up hundreds of opinion pieces from the left, but I try to stick with graphs and charts that are somewhat objective.

            Obama is not anti-Israel. He has been as supportive as any president. What he is not is reflexively supportive of anything the Israeli right wing wants. He is not an enabler. I think Likud is the greatest threat to the long-term survival of Israel. Israel must resolve the Palestinian issue and to do that they must stop the settlements.

            The Palestinians are wrong about plenty of stuff themselves, but time is on their side. In another generation, Israeli Jews will be outnumbered in their own country. To keep the country recognizable, they have to resolve this issue in the next few years. Will it be easy? Of course not. Does Romney seem up to the task? Hardly.

          • George E

            I see no evidence that Obama is up to the task.

          • Jeff

            Most people disagree. Obama is the first democrat in a generation to have the edge on defense. Maybe people are still ecstatic foreign affairs are no longer being conducted by Cheney and his band of Neocons, many of whom are “advising” Romney.

          • George E

            You obviously run with a different group of people than I do. We like Dick Cheney in my neighborhood. He didn’t take **** from anyone, and you could always depend on him standing strong for America. He wasn’t a “slick” politician, and was an honorable guy so far as I can tell.

          • Jeff

            He left office with an approval rating around 13% if memory serves. At the end, even W wasn’t listening to him anymore.

          • Jeff

            George:

            Here’s your opportunity to tell him your concerns directly.

            Friend –

            Look, you’ve really got to get involved here.

            We’ve got the last Dinner with Barack of this campaign coming up, and before this tradition is over I think you should give it a shot.

            Chip in $5 or whatever you can and you’ll automatically be entered for a chance to fly out with a guest for dinner with the President. Your airfare and hotel are on us:

            https://donate.barackobama.com/Dinner

            Thanks,

            Joe

            P.S. — We’ve got just 48 days left in this campaign — and every last one counts. Donate today and help fund our ground game for these last few weeks.

          • George E

            Thanks for the invitation. Very kind of you. However, I won’t be able to make it this time. I’ve reserved that date for a Romney campaign meeting, and I don’t have any money left after my last donation to Romney. Have fun. You guys better get fired up. I hear Obama is falling behind.

          • Jeff

            Where do you hear this stuff – at the barber shop in Sarah Palin’s neighborhood? Every poll, including Fox News, shows Obama ahead nationally and in the important swing states. Romney’s campaign is imploding, and some Republican Senate candidates are running away from him. Your neighborhood may not be the best national bellweather.

          • George E

            Have you looked at the Rasmussen poll lately? He has reported Romney in the lead now since right after the DNC convention. If you recall, Rasmussen has a reputation for being the most accurate poll. He polls “likely voters”, and doesn’t over-poll Democrats like the other polls do. It’s close, but Romney is ahead in the popular vote right now. Electoral count is closer, however. But, I don’t have any problem with Democrats thinking Obama is ahead. They might become overconfident. Wouldn’t hurt my feelings if they left the dead people, illegal aliens, and double counted folks at home this go round. I don’t mind losing in a fair election, but it really galls me to lose to crooks who steal the election.

          • Jeff

            You mean like 2000 and 2004?

            I don’t think anyone’s overconfident yet. Now, if Romney keeps talking, then maybe some democrats might get cocky. Here’s a collection of polls:

            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            Jeff: It would be worth more than $5. to me for an opportunity to give him the finger and call him an incompetent marxist a==hole. However, I don’t want to pay for his commercials. So I’ll let you deliver my message. See my finger?

          • macgyver1948

            George E… I have the links you send and I intend to go through the rest of them. I looked a one so I knew it was right leaning and I read it. I will not try to convince you that you are wrong because how could you be (for you) since it is your opinion and how you feel.

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            Jeff: Strength means everything to our allies and our enemies. Our Lybian ambassador was tortured, raped, murdered, and dragged through the streets. How did your fearless leader react? He drank $800. champagne with JayZ and Beyonce, and appeared on David Letterman. When Letterman asked him about the debt clock, he didn’t know that it had surpassed $16 trillion. He is a weakling, a marxist, and a fool. I have nothing but contempt for him and those of you who support him.

          • actual socialist

            Tell me mike what evidence do you have that the minister was raped or tortured? how do you know he wasn,t just shot quick and painlessly?

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Then you are not paying attention and you might be just listening to Obama’s opposition….

          • George E

            The line between liberalism and socialism is pretty thin, I think, so you shouldn’t be surprised when conservatives can’t see the difference. If liberals don’t want to be called socialist, then they should do a better job of defining the difference for everyone else. I just get the impression that liberals really have embraced many of the principles of socialism, but just don’t want to be called socialists.

          • Jeff

            It’s impossible to make someone understand something when his paycheck (or his political ideology) depends on his not understanding it. Doctrinaire conservatives believe everyone who disagrees with them is either a communist, a terrorist, or an anarchist. I can’t be responsible for their lack of analytic ability.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I know you’re not responsible. I just want you to know how conservatives think so you might understand when conservatives say they think someone is a socialist it’s not just to insult the person but they really do think that they are.

    • deerinwater

      So when the time comes for us to actually stand up and be counted, we should remained seated? Finding it better to siege the moment rather then secure the future.

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        deerinwater: You’ve stood up, I’ve counted you, and I’ve checked you off as one more dumbass.

    • http://alsina846.wordpress.com Proud American

      well said, I too rather take a chance on Romney that obama, if obama wins he will finish America off. He is a commie muslim and he does not care or repect our constitution. He is a looser with a huge ego, 23 million people out of work his record speaks for itself. Yet they are idiots that will vote for this dictator muslim for a second term. obama is anti America he hates our country, he should go back to kenya where he was born.

      • Joe Hammond

        You do realize communism is an atheist political idea while Islam is the submission to God? I also hope you understand that the original founders of the Constitution were sexists in that women were not permitted the vote; racist as they claimed African-Americans were not equal to white men (they even placed a fractional number on how much an African-American was); and; they did not allow the Native Americans a place at the table (instead the plan was to remove them period);….So women, African-Americans, and Native Americans should be loyal to this scrape of paper? Should Hispanics whose land was seized in an aggressive war started by the US (even Lincoln asked about this in Congress)? Should japanese Americans be loyal after their grandparents were slammed into concentration camps during WW2? Should the Chinese-Americans have loyalty when after the railroads were built they were limited as to what businesses they could enter in places like California? What about the Irish who had to face signs in windows in the East that sais “No Irish allowed!”? The WW1 veternes who were attacked by the Army under MacArthur in the 1930′s?

        It seems that all that is left are the angry white, semi-religious (or mormon) males…like Rooty-tooty. Doesn’t seem like that is enough in a democracy to elect Romney/Lyin’ Ryan…And Mit is still falling in the polls after his embassy rants….

        It’s Obama for 4 more years. Get used to it and save yourself an ulcer…..

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          JoeH: I was going to respond to your anti-American post, but then I realized that you are too stupid to understand, so f… it.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Joe Hammond, if you were secure that O would win in November you would not be snarling and growling at the Conservatives and/or Libertarians on this post.

  • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

    Wayne Allyn Root: Thank you. I hope some of the numbnuts who read this column will be convinced. We only have two choices – a marxist and a capitalist. Obama will destroy this country if he gets four more years,

  • Adrian Wyllie

    There’s a typo in the headline. It should read, “America’s Leading Self-Promoting Narcissist” Root was never a Libertarian.

  • http://www.facebook.com/laverne.godwin Laverne Godwin

    You are a big piecce of crap! My potty scooper is too small for this job so I must purchase a shovel to bury you and your mess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Laverne: You are the perfect candidate to become a Scientologist.

  • bill

    Well fine business Mr.Root but since I have been blessed with ability to vote paper ,I will vote for someone else other than whom I have been told too.cheers

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Bill: “….ability to vote paper..” What the f…?

  • Joe Hammond

    The Gallup Tracking Poll has Romney behind Obama by 7 points….Romney’s rant against the President has not produced any ability to stop the freefall…Romney is not being viewed as a commander-in-chief after the embassy lashing….Face Rooty, Romney is not a very likeable fellow and it comes through on the television when he smirks after delivering some message of gloom……

    Rooty-tooty, you are backing a dying horse…..

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Joe H: You are going to be feeling like a dumbass on the morning of Nov.7.

    • nnicko

      Hey Joe……you are a prime candidate for buying stock in all the bridges in queens…..how about..”For those who have not sinned, let them throw the first stone”! Joe, consider yourself a little virgin because the phony polls, the education your received from the left media( CBS,NBC, NPR, ABC. WASHINGTON COMPOSE, WASHINGTON URINAL, NEW YORK SLIME) apparently has protected you from being pierced with the TRUTH! Submit Joe, the truth will set you free. It’s okay to lose your virginity-left wing-education. Feel good again.

      • Joe Hammond

        Almost impressive SickoNicko. Almost impressive….

        Nov. 7 will show us who is president and we will find out it doesn’t matter in this corporate fascist nation-state anymore…

    • Paul B.

      JOe, you do realize Gallop is NO LONGER CREDIBLE, given the lashing from Axelrod and the lawsuit by the Justice Department. Their polls are heavily skewed with Liberal voters. They are attempting to SWAY public opinion with biased polling statistics, coerced under threat of bogus Federal lawsuits.

      You can NO LONGER consider any Gallop valid, Just look at the polling percentages used and you can easily see why they so heavily favor Obama.

      • Joe Hammond

        Paul,

        Look at the Fox polls. They are saying close to the same thing. Those polls are bought and paid for by the Koch Bros……..

        • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

          Um, Fox has been over for a while now, folks- Beck & Napolitano were used to grow their ratings, now they’re gone. Wouldn’t surprise me to see Hannity join them between now and the election. No facts, no research, just my opinion, jelled in part by their recently added segments on the Hollywood/entertainment scene- I do not believe that is why folks initially tuned in to Fox; that is my opinionated opinion, anyway…

  • Ted Apelt

    Uh, excuuse me, but George W. Bush was President during “the Lehman Brothers collapse in 2008 (when the entire financial system was on the verge of Armageddon)” and it was Republican policies (especially the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act that repealed Glass-Steagall) that resulted in the current disaster. You want a repeat of that? You want more Enrons? More Citigroups? More AIGs? You want more of our jobs shipped off to China by the likes of Bain Capital?

    I would like to remind you that it was Republicans that got us into this mess in the first place. Can’t you learn from this?

    • nnicko

      So what have we learned the last 3 3/4 years ? Are you better off now than your were 4 years ago? Think real hard, if you can…stretch it out ted…..give yourself another four to think it out.

      • Ted Apelt

        We are no longer in a free fall down an abyss of total meltdown, this is an improvement.

        It would have been better if we brought back Glass-Steagall, and also if we had handed out heavy prison terms to those bankers who stole from us, especially AIG who made insurance contracts that they knew they would never be able to pay off.

    • Paul B.

      Ted, that bill was signed into law by your leftist hero Clinton… so why not blame him and Democratic party for repeal of Glass-Steigel. If you want to be consistent, then maybe you should blame Dems for the financial collapse since it was the CRA and Dem policies promoting Fannie and Freddie that created the crisis. It was two years of Dem Congress that ran the majority of Bush’s debt to record levels.

      I hate it when Dems get so selective in their criticism of Bush when in reality it was THEM who created most of the problems we have faced in 4 decades.

      You can’t have it both ways. Either it is Congress or the President that sets policy…. make up your mind. If you talk budget, it would be Congress. If it is setting policy, it would be the President. In BOTH cases, the Dems come out on the wrong side.

      • Ted Apelt

        True, and I hate Clinton for that. Yes, the Democrats have been just as guilty of promoting the kind of Republican policies that wrecked us as the Republicans who came up with it. I am talking about POLICIES, not people. These policies started with Ronald Reagan in 1980 and have been in force since.

        “Bill Clinton bears as much responsibility as any politician for the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, and the wild applause for his disingenuous speech at the Democratic National Convention last week is a sure sign of the poverty of what passes for progressive politics.”

        http://www.nationofchange.org/great-deregulator-1347543380

        The policies I am against are the ones that allow bankers to do whatever they want to get more money, even if that means stealing from the rest of us. Romney lives and breathes those policies and thinks they are just great. Obama mostly goes along with them, but at least offers some resistance.

        For more details, read the article i referenced.

        • Jeff

          Yes, Clinton signed a lot of basically Republican bills, but they were still essentially Republican bills: NAFTA, welfare reform, repeal of Glass Steagall. It was pushed by the banks for years and was the pet project of 3 Republican senators: Gramm, Leach, and Bliley.

    • Drew Evan Stewart

      Hor$e$hite

      Everyone is entitled to their opinion and freedom to voice it, but Historical facts cannot be changed; they can only be acknowledged, or twisted and lied about. Here are the historical facts I recently discovered, that the collective media and their successfully brainwashed subjects and drones refuse to acknowledge.

      The day the Democrats took over was not January 20, 2009; it was actually January 3, 2007, the day the Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate, at the very start of the 110th Congress.

      The Democratic Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.

      For those who are listening to liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is “Bush’s Fault”, think about this:

      On January 3, 2007, the day the Democrats took control of Congress –
      The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
      The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
      The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
      George Bush’s Economic policies had SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!

      January 3rd, 2007 was the day Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.

      The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy?
      Answer: BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!

      THANK YOU DEMOCRATS (especially Barney), for taking us from 12621.77 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% unemployment to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Fiascoes!

      (BTW: Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting in 2001 because it was financially risky for the US economy). Barney blocked it and called it a “Chicken Little Philosophy” (but SURPRISE – the sky did fall!)

      And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? – OBAMA! (As a senator from Illinois )

      And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie? OBAMA and the Democrat Congress – especially BARNEY FRANK!

      So when someone tries to blame Bush… REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007… THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER!”

      Bush may have been in the car, but the Democrats were in charge of the gas pedal and steering wheel while they were driving the economy into the ditch.

      Budgets are not passed in the White House. They are passed by Congress, and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 was the Democratic Party.

      Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the budget process for 2008 & 2009 as well as 2010 & 2011. Obama has now gone 1,000 days without a budget, and is still blaming it on the Republicans! In that first year, Congress had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending when Bush, somewhat belatedly, got tough on spending increases.

      For FYI, 2009 though, Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid bypassed Lame Duck President George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the 2009 budget.

      And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of those massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete 2009. Let’s remember what the deficits looked like during that period:

      If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in the previous five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the wasteful budgets.

      If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself and a Democratic Congress.

      In a nutshell, what Obama is really saying is: “I inherited a deficit that I voted for, and then I expanded that deficit four-fold since January 20th 2009.”

      The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living were outnumbered at the polls, by those who vote for a living.

      We only need to ask ourselves and truthfully answer two simple questions.
      1.) What do I want to accomplish?
      2.) What am I willing to give up to get it?

      I want to live in America under the principles of our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution.

      I will give up my life to accomplish that.

      • Paul B.

        Cheers to you for expanding my brief comment for all to see. Unfortunately, when a liberal progressive meets hard facts, their comprehension abilities shut down for fear of overload. Their pointy little heads can’t handle anything that contradicts the barrage of liberal talking points that have been hammered into their lemming skulls.

        Thanks for the clarification, but will most like only fall on ears that understand that fact and barely penetrate, if at all, those ears that really need to hear it.

  • wryter2012

    I’m a Tea Party Republican/Libertarian who will hold my nose and vote for Mitt Romney because I believe that turning our economy around is, for the moment, more important than voting my conscience–ie voting Libertarian.

  • Michael Ryan

    WOW! There is at least one person making some good posts here! I want Mark Are Reynolds as a neighbor when the SHTF.

    • Paul B.

      Believe me when I say there are millions of Mark Are Reynolds in this country ready to join you when the SHTF. Eastwood was right… “This IS our country!!!!” We will NOT give up without extreme resistance…. first through persistent protest as we witnessed with the Tea Party rallies, then through the polls as we witnessed in 2010, and if we cannot combine the two this election and remove this disaster occupying the WH, then we regroup and find another way to save this country…..

      As true loyal constitutional Americans, we don’t give up. The whiny greedy selfish liberals don’t stand a chance when push comes to shove… OWS hasn’t seen what real protest is all about… haven’t got a clue how to make things happen. Those pissy little turds are missing one key ingredient for success… true motivation for a worthy cause.

  • jakob

    I honestly believe that Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke are more responsible for the terrible economy than obama, although he sure hasn’t helped

  • Cameron

    So let me get this straight Wayne, you didnt think their was anything wrong potentially giving Obama his first four years when you were running as vp. But now, we should listen to you because you now recognize four years later what the man stood for. Youre a smart guy so how could you be so blind to Obama’s radical agenda four years ago? You have a false idea of what capitalism is claiming Romney believes in capitalism. You know thats not true. Bailouts and stimulus arent apart of capitalism. Romney supported both. If you think Romney can save us from the collapse ahead, you are dreaming. He isnt willing to make the painful cuts to soften the blow when America does go over the real “fiscal cliff”. Interest rates dont have a choice but to rise soon. When that happens, most tax revenue will go to pay the interest on the debt. Slowing the growth rate of govt, lowering taxes, and easing up on a few minor regulations, isnt even close to enough to avoid what is coming.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Cameron: So, what is your solution, genius?

    • Paul B.

      I agreed with Wayne… the republicans HAD LOST THEIR WAY in the 2000′s when we had control, although. like the Dems screanm obstruction now, THEY were the obstructionists then. there is no progress without common cause, and the two parties have less in common now than ever. THAT IS the biggest problem we face in America now as NO party will ever have COMPLETE control in DC.

      The Dems were 1 vote away from filibuster proof control for almost two years, but their policies were so distasteful to the majority of Americans, the Reps were commanded by their constituents to resist the “Change” that Obama promised as we quickly realized in Jan 2009 it was NOT what he promised, we had been misled into some dream of Utopian society.

      Many feel for that trap, but many have realized the fallacy of even looking for Utopia as it will NEVER be realized. Humans are designed for Utopia, we are designed to deal with the harsh realities of life, and that includes hard work, sacrifice, determination and “nothing comes for free.” regardless of what anyone tries to promise you, what you gain in free stuff, you lose in freedom.

      Enslaving the masses was ALWAYS the design of the progressive as they believe humans are too stupid to make their own decisions. So we must be placed in neat little boxes, controlled according to some grand design while the elitists sit on the mountain top and bask in the glory of their “Great Society”.

      If you believe in fairy tales, then vote Democrat. If you believe that reality is NOT getting cared for cradle to grave, as we have seen the failure all across Europe and throughout history, never works and the results of every attempt have ended in disaster, worse than the common struggles of reality, people are forced into grave conditions.

  • Sheepdog

    Neither party’s candidate had my vote. Both party’s will do what is needed to keep themselves in power and maintain the status quo. Romney is the white Obama, kind of like an old 35mm film negative. I see little difference between them. All I hear of Romney is, he is pragmatic. I see him having no core values. “Pragmatic’ to me translates to follow the blowing winds of the latest poll. So I am not splitting any vote. Holding my nose and voting for the lessor of two evils, is still voting for evil. I do give Obama credit; he has changed (destroyed) America just as he was said he would do. The big Republican machine, driven by Romney, trampled all over Ron Paul’s delegates and the Tea Party in Tampa. I expect Romney to govern the same way. Which is no different than Obama.

    Republicans gave us TARP, the renewed Patriot Act, NDAA, drones over America, the militarization of our local police, and John Roberts. The Republican Party has betrayed us for the last time. I can never vote Republican again. Looking at other options.

    Whoever wins on Nov 6th, this country will still be pretty much evenly divided. Let’s skip the separation, move on to the property settlement, and finalize this divorce.

    The line in the sand has been drawn. The time has come for each of us to decide where our loyalties lie. Wayne Allyn Root has made his decision. He is our century’s Benedict Arnold. Good riddans. Not sure we will feel his loss. Onward!

    Hold fast to your Principles! Stay the course! Now is not the time to waver. Be strong! Many a time our forefathers struggled in the dark hours. I am not sure God will bless us again. We can only pray. And carry the fight to the enemies of Liberty!

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Sheepdog: What the f… is “riddans”? I guess you need to be reminded that all the people aboard the 9/11 hijacked planes were praying until the end. You can pray if it makes you feel good, and I’ll fart if it makes me feel good. I suspect that they are equally helpful.

      • Sheepdog

        When you say goodbye to someone, and say ‘good riddans’, how do you spell it?

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          Sheepdog: It’s riddance.

  • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

    Oh, and Wayne…one other thing…WHY should GOD Bless AMERICA? For all the bombings and killings that have been done in “our” name around the world? The drone strikes on wedding parties? The murder of thousands of civilians in Faluja Iraq? The invasions of Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan…make a list a mile long? The untold suffering that this nation has caused because the people won’t rise up and take this country back from a bunch of psychos running it? You’ve got to be kidding. If God had any sense he’d take a big dump on this country.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      MAR: He has dumped on this country and the rest of the world tens of thousands of times. Who else is responsible for plagues, disease, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz?

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Your right. All that todays Americans, with the exception of a few, think about is money. “For the love of money is the root of all evil”. They can’t equate more money with morality and personal responsibility, being productive in their day to day activities. The other way to get it is to steal it and they forget thieves will get caught. Think of the white house as a huge oak tree and the people as squirrels. The oak tree is surrounded by metal detectors, X-Ray machines,TSA agents etc. The oak tree gives at it’s pleasure the squirrels food and shelter but there is a hunting season on the squirrels mandating that they pay homage to the oak tree to enjoy the privilege of living.

  • Hedgehog

    You know, from my side of the 49th parallel things look a little different. Most of you assume that Obama will be generous enough to let you have an election in November, I don’t! All Obama has to do is manufacture an excuse to declare martial law, suspend the election and set aside the Constitution. Then you are stuck with him until he consolidates his position, or you revolt. If he permits the election to go ahead, and he wins, no problem for him. He will have four more years to consolidate his position and achieve his goals, one of which I believe is to become dictator. If Obama permits the election to go ahead and he loses, despite vote rigging and voter intimidation and apathy. He will have until Inauguration day to manufacture a crisis, declare martial law, arrest the opposition, and execute them or throw them in concentration camps. My bet is he will execute them! Thus your only option appears to be to forget the election and revolt, now! Right now Obama is orchestrating the militarization of the police and many government departments, while many of your troops are stationed on foreign soil. This is not an accident! He intends to make himself dictator of a country in the throes of civil war, the election is merely a smokescreen. Heads, tails, and the edge of the coin he wins, you lose! I hope I am wrong, but I don’t think so. I wish you all the good luck in the world. You have enough bad luck already!

  • The Frog Prince

    This election is too important to have even one person cast a protest vote for a third party candidate. They need to get over it. Romney wasn’t my first choice or second choice. He has his flaws then I look at Obama. I researched Obama back in 2008 and uncovered many of the things the Lame Stream Media was silent about then and remains silent about now. Where did Obama really come from? To this day no one really knows and that should concern any citizen of this nation. His past, what can be seen of it, has been littered with the Marxist/Communist/Socialist garbage of this country in recent history.

    Obama is intent on making our country just like every other country. We’re not and people need to wake up. Just read his books. I also recommend that everyone in this nation go and see 2016, Obama’s America. Much of that documentary contains Obama’s own words and his hidden rage at what he perceives as the injustices of our nation.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      TFP: I saw 2016. At the end, everyone applauded. I never say that happen at a movie before.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      An election in this day and age reminds me of an election in the old USSR or Communist China. We can go through the motions but we all know is, what we’ll get is the same old same old. What’s sickening to me is it will by choice.

  • justin

    Sure hope yer right. Romney has already changed his tune on Obama Care, what else will he crawfish on? My gut tells me that Romney and Obama are good bedfellows. And that spells trouble for the nation. Maybe yer right tho. Even if we can just be happy with %1 less evil in the government, its better than nothing. OH BOY! doesn’t that sound great. (sarcasm) >:

    • http://www.facebook.com/CoachKaterina Katerina Gasset

      That is simply not true. They could not be further apart. Romney loves the founding fathers and the constitution. He is very patriotic.

      But what he is NOT going to do is go against the law. He will work to change laws but he won’t disobey a law. THat is NOT who he is. We are taught in our church to be law abiding citizens. His parents taught that to him and he taught his children the same.

      When he was governor he had a Totally DEM house and senate. They kept trying to tie his hands. He spent millions of his own money to try to get GOP candidates elected to the state house and senate so that they could change things around in that state. The citizens of that state would not vote the GOP in. He never took a penny as salary when he was governor.

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        Katerina: Thank you.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      justin: Your gut needs to be cleaned out. Try Metamucil.

  • http://www.facebook.com/CoachKaterina Katerina Gasset

    I as a libertarian am also coming out with my official endorsement of Romney for President. I can promise you that Mitt Romney is a free market business leader. But more important- he is a problem solver. He cares about people, he will stop at nothing to help another. He loves our country and believes in our founding fathers. He also obeys the law. He will not be a dictator. He will spend his own money to make things happen.

    I know Mitt Romney and his family. We have sat next to them in Church. We know the people he works with and who he has helped. The only problem is he is humble, which I like, but people in our country like those who toot their own horns. He has to brag more about what he has done and how he goes to the grocery store, how he cooks dinner at home for his family, how he is connected with every day middle class America, because he is.

    • Baloney Toney Mahoney

      The Mahoney Man says: Yes, I’m a Libertarian, too who is going for Romney & I believe he might make a good president & don’t believe like many that he will be more of the same…nothing is set in stone…However, he is a poor campaigner & is getting poor advice!!

    • DaveH
    • LC

      In 1984, Romney left Bain & Company to co-found the spin-off private equity investment firm, Bain Capital. (He had initially refrained from accepting Bill Bain’s offer to head the new venture, until Bain re-arranged the terms in a complicated partnership structure so that there was no financial or professional risk to Romney
      Romney soon switched Bain Capital’s focus from startups to the relatively new business of leveraged buyouts: buying existing firms with money mostly borrowed from banking institutions and using the newly bought firms’ assets as collateral, and selling them off in a few years
      Romney discovered few investment opportunities himself (and those that he did, often failed to make money for the firm).
      He wanted to drop a Bain Capital hedge fund that initially lost money, but other partners prevailed and it eventually gained billions
      Romney was on the board of directors of Damon Corporation, a medical testing company later found guilty of defrauding the government; Bain Capital tripled its investment before selling off the company, and the fraud was discovered by the new owners (Romney was never implicated).
      Bain Capital’s leveraged buyouts sometimes led to layoffs, either soon after acquisition or later after the firm had left. How jobs added compared to those lost due to these investments and buyouts is unknown, due to a lack of records and Bain Capital’s penchant for privacy on behalf of itself and its investors. In any case, maximizing the value of acquired companies and the return to Bain’s investors, not job creation, was the firm’s fundamental goal.
      Bain Capital’s acquisition of Ampad exemplified a deal where it profited handsomely from early payments and management fees, even though the subject company itself ended up going into bankruptcy. Dade Behring was another case where Bain Capital received an eightfold return on its investment, but the company itself was saddled with debt and laid off over a thousand employees before Bain Capital exited (the company subsequently went into bankruptcy, with more layoffs, before recovering and prospering). Bain was among the private equity firms that took the most fees in such cases.
      Not to mention the whole time he was active in Bain Capital he was the sole share holder lacking any professional responsiblity and when the company needed reform he insisted on doing things his way or nothing at all. This same over bearing, self righteous, attitude carried over to his involvement in church. Many would have rather been more prone to a concensus rather than his stiffling leadership role.
      NOT FOR THE PEOPLE. Supports banning and controling guns, the NDAA, the Patriot act, Sacrificing more lives and money in the Middle East. Is more concerned about investors than everyday working class (regular citizens). Who our the US investors? Foreign banks? China? Islam? Rothchilds? Soros? Goldman Sachs?
      Sounds like a LEVERAGED BUY OUT to me! Can you say DICTATOR IN THE MAKING!!!???

  • Baloney Toney Mahoney

    The Mahoney Man says: All this blather & banners for this proclamation ..Who Cares??? WAR, unless you live in a swing state, it does not matter!!! Pragmatism over Principles in this case seems justified to me…Obumma is a very special case of evil, a wolf is sheep’s clothing ruling over the henhouse has been a unmitigated disaster!!!!!

  • Baloney Toney Mahoney

    The Mahoney Man says: Maybe , I’m missing something, but why can’t WAR endorse R&R, & still stay in Libertarian party?

    I wish Ran Paul would start his own party already…we need a vital & viable 3rd choice already , apart from the corrupt GOP & DEMs Both have led us down this road to ruin!!!

  • dan

    meh,,the RNC doesn’t need me…they made that clear at the convention

    I’d be tempted by the capitalist pirate raider in the magic underware if he hadn’y already subverted the Constitution with legislation in Mass. on ugly- gun banning and Romney-care
    but I can’t remember if he’s for killing babies or just making it easier for women to do it.

    • nnicko

      Dan..renounce your citizenship and go to another country….figure it out abroad and maybe you get the answer. suggest the middle east for your education on government.

      • dan

        I was thinking of Russia where a Czar is still just a czar….but socialism and political correctness
        by people that wrap themselves in a flag they haven’t bled to defend …who don’t even know that they’re brainwashed Marxists is not a prescription for prosperity . It would be hard to find a spot that the Amerikan Empire/New World Order hasn’t already invaded or subverted in the name on Demonocracy…Corporatism Uber Alles

  • plasmarules

    It’s clear the US just needs a good uprising, let’s call it Independence Day 2, the day we recognized that all the reasons why we had the first independence day are here again. Overthrowing government tyranny. Romney is different than Obama? Why all the same financial institutions supporting him? Obama was Goldman Sachs man in 2008, now Romney is. Does Romney want to concentrate on national defense instead of policing the world? No, he’s dying to get into Iran. Does Romney support personal liberties? No, he wants the federal government to have control over women’s bodies. Does Romney support a farm bill that would keep sustainable organic farmers alive and reduce subsidies for industrial chemical giants like Monsanto? HELL NO!
    Romney = Obama. Repeat under you understand.

    • Firefly

      In which case you should joint the 3,000,000 a year who have been leaving the country since Obama was elected. A wise statesman once said that “It’s amazing what can be accomplished if a person is unconcerned about who gets credit for it,” and a wise man of God once said, “One of the secrets of success is to deal with persons, places and things, as they are, and not as we want them to be.” That said we, we can see where the country will be in a few years if our first elected king who really wants to be emperor rules another four years. The media is solidly in his hands. They hate America and want to destroy her as well. Many in Congress are sold out to Dow and Monsanto and the big banks. If they are not replaced with God-fearing moral men – regardless of church affiliation – no righteous president will be able to restore the United States to it’s former greatness. God’s judgement seems to be upon not just the USA but the world.

      The excellent movie “2016″ goes into all the reasons why the president is the way he is. Even his half brother is a better realist than he is. See the movie and you will understand what we are headed for. I thought I was well read and knew all about Obama but Denesh who escaped from Egypt years ago has done a great job at revealing what took tens of thousands of miles and many interviews to discover. A fascinating movie.

      The point is that we can curse the economic hurricane that is coming – yes, it’s still coming – what we have seen so far is not even a tropical storm, just a gale, or we can do something about it. It has been estimated that tens of millions of believers didn’t vote last time because they didn’t want McCain. If they stay home again this time then we know what is coming, the end of the world as we know it. When Los Angeles is destroyed by the largest natural disaster in American history many Muslims in foreign countries will likely dance in the streets as they did when the news filled the airways about the 9/11 tragedy, but nothing short or a return to the Godly principles of the Bible upon which this great nation was founded can “save us”. Not church, not religion, but Godly principles!

      Yes, Romney is a human being. That’s what we elect to lead us in this country(and someday a woman). We don’t elect “messiah’s and saviors” – we elect fallible human beings who need as much help after they are elected as before. These are not “the times that try men’s souls” but they soon could be if for whatever reason Obama gets to rule and ruin for four more years. Enough with the negativism and the excuses. “This is the day the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in in it.”

      • plasmarules

        Ah, I didn’t realize Obama wasn’t a human being, hahahaha.

        Obama = Romney, the media is just as owned by either of them as they are both corporate puppets. In fact I hope Romney does get into power just so you can realize how foolish it was to think he would make a difference, but hell if you didn’t realize it with Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Bush, etc., then when WILL you realize it? When you’ve just been put six feet underground because of an adverse vaccine reaction that you had no choice to opt out of because Barritt Obamney wrote a decree that no state can pass a vaccine exemption?

        Why we must oppose Barritt Obamney for POTUS – http://www.naturalnews.com/036172_President_Obama_Mitt_Romney.html

      • dan

        Amen , and thankyou Firefly….YHVH’s will be done in this spiritual battle

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        Romney and Obama remind me of Caligula when he said: If I am man, my subjects must be something else. If they are men, I must be something more. The principle difference between man and beast is that men are the only thing in God’s creation with the ability to reason. What some might consider their ability to reason, is pure insanity to a moral man.

  • HanziesMom

    Every word of this article is true and makes sense. I too am not sure how Romney will do but I believe with all my heart that we need to re-dedicate our country to God. Our morals are atrocious. We sacrifice our own children every day and we ALL pay for it with our taxes. We are ALL guilty. Re-electing O is a sign that God’s prophesy of our doom as a country and a people is eminent. Romney being elected is a sign that God is giving us another chance. By all accounts he is a man of faith and morality. How many billionaires go to a hospital to visit a sick child? How many politicians write down their promises and systematically ensures he keeps them once he gets in office? Wake up people! Pray to God that we get another chance. If not, the “Re-education Camps” are waiting for us already built as FEMA camps complete with barbed wire and MREs and newly trained guards. God have mercy on us all!

    • plasmarules

      Has Romney spoken out against vaccination? Because several vaccines use aborted human fetal cells to culture for example Rubella virus.

      There are two primary cell cultures that have been growing in labs for more than 35 years and have been used to prepare hundreds of millions of doses of vaccines:

      WI-38: Originating in the U.S. in 1961, this line came from the lung cells of an intentionally aborted female human fetus of 3 months gestation.
      MRC-5: Originating in the U.K. in 1966, this line was derived from the lung cells of an intentionally aborted 14-week-old male human fetus.

      How does God feel about that? Guys like Romney will continue to allow the pharmaceutical industry to run the government regulatory agencies, just like the last several REP and DEM POTUS’ before him.

  • Champion for Truth

    Just lost all respect for you! If you don’t stand for something, you stand for nothing! Very little difference between the two status quo candidates and the RNC cinched it when they disrespected Ron Paul at their convention. They’re all liars, cheaters and crooks! I cannot in good conscious vote for them! Thinking “we the people” have a choice is all an illusion. I stand by Ron Paul! The RNC sealed their own fate, so don’t blame those of us who will no longer go along with their farce!

  • nnicko

    Hey Champion, you might want to go to another country because you sound wimpy and will not be a candidate to fight for our country. The grass might be greener on the other side for you and you can pretend to be a champion for whatever ! goodbye

    • dan

      Is that all you have you repuking troll ? Love the excrement or leave it …. THINK….
      WAKEUP read and learn before you regurgitate your foolishness

  • LK4Mitt

    FIrst of all, I am a single female and I am sick to death of heariing about the supposed “war on women”. Wake up women! Romney is not going to drag your sorry arses back to the dark age. Besides, there are alot more important issues to be concerned wtih, like having a free country than your make-believe issues. No one is taking your precious birth control away or even the repugnant right to murder the most precious humans. There is a slight little “inconvenience” for you in the Constitution that prevents forcing someone/thing to ignore their conscience. I for one, strongly object to having to pay for your birth control. Why dont I get a voice in that? What gives YOU the RIGHT to force me to pay for you to screw around? No one paid for mine when I needed it, but it was important enough for ME to find a way to get it….by going to clinics that offered it at very low cost. This was 30 years ago…the clinics were there then and they are still here….if you cant afford to pay, then dont play! And for cripe sakes, GROW UP and TAKE some RESPONSIBILITY for your OWN actions. Quit whining and insisting that Big Daddy take care of you……obviously, you are too weak for that. Thanks Wayne for a very good message. GO PATRIOTS! GO MITT! GO PAUL!

  • http://www.archivale.com/weblog Marc de Piolenc

    Well, goodbye Mr. Root. You’ve apparently decided not to be a leading libertarian any more, and to become a following Republican instead. If you can see the slightest shade of ideological difference between Romney and Obama, then you are living in a different universe from mine. The hope of this country certainly does not lie in getting Obama out of office, because we already know that the man who will replace him is no better. Instead, we must concentrate on retaking the country and thereby forcing the office of the President back into its constitutional limits. That means Congressional races, judgeships… all the petty detail that we tend to forget while we focus on the bloated Presidency and the sad specimens who are now contesting it.

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    Mr. Root. Do I really care who you as one person are going to pull the lever for? Your articles strike me more as indoctrinational than educational. Personally I guess you would call me a God fearing Constitutionalist. but that and $5.00 and you can ride the subway in NYC. I’ve been studying with the Foundation for Economic Education since 1963 and fel humbly qualified to make comment on the subject. I paint economics with a broad brush to include all facets of human existence. With those credentials, I don’t think it matters who wins considering who the candidates are. Obama’s a died in the wool communist, a believer in government owned / government controlled. Romney, he’s a fascist. Privately owned / goverment controlled. As far as the middle class goes, what is the difference? Romney will take us to oblivion via the idea, might makes right while Obama will take us to obilivion, via inflation and economic collapse. The Libertarian Party, of which I once was a candidate for, endorses prostitution and fetal murder, things that the legend on our coin: In God We Trust says makes liars and hypocrits before God. I read a pamphlet once that was titled “Nothing else but God” and in my opinion,that’s where we are at. This love of money in America is proving the verse “For the love of money is the root of all evil” as we ignore our immorality, tyrannical foreign policy etc. If America would correct itself morally, everything else would fall into place.

    • DaveH

      Christian says — “The Libertarian Party, of which I once was a candidate for, endorses prostitution and fetal murder”.
      That’s a damn lie, Christian. We don’t endorse either. We just don’t think it is the business of Government to intervene in such things.

      • DaveH

        I’ll save you from wasting your time disputing that, Christian:
        “1.4 Abortion
        Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration”.
        “1.2 Personal Privacy
        Libertarians support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, and property. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure should include records held by third parties, such as email, medical, and library records. Only actions that infringe on the rights of others can properly be termed crimes. We favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without victims, such as the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes”.
        That would include Prostitution, Christian.

  • plasmarules

    There is a dangerous person running for President in 2012, and his name is Baritt Obamney. I normally try not to attack specific candidates for political office, but Baritt Obamney is so offensive to American sensibilities that I had to share this warning with my fellow Americans. In 2012, we must vote against Obamney for President.

    And why? Because here is what Obamney believes in, based on his actions and voting record:

    • Big, bigger and even BIGGER government! The bigger the government, the better.

    • GMOs: Obamney is a huge supporter of Monsanto and the biotech industry that produces genetically modified seeds. He wants all Americans to eat foods laced with pesticides grown by the crops themselves! This is all part of the mass poisoning plan to keep America sick and incapable of resisting tyranny.

    • Trillion-dollar banker bailouts! Obamney was put into power by the Goldman Sachs banking elite, of course, and he wants to keep handing over trillions of dollars to his master while driving the average hard-working American into total debt slavery.

    • Continued government raids on raw milk farmers and food distribution centers: Obamney is an enemy of food freedom and farm freedom, and he can’t wait to use the power of the federal government to imprison a few more Amish dairy farmers.

    • Socialized medicine: Obamney believes in taking away free choice, putting in place a Big Pharma monopoly over health care, and forcing Americans to buy health insurance even if they don’t want it! This traps everyone in a system of broken medicine that doesn’t even promote wellness.

    • Endless wars: Obamney is a huge fan of keeping America involved in endless wars, even if it means fabricating a fictional enemy concept — “terrorism” — to justify it. The military industrial complex, after all, pulls Obamney’s strings.

    • Vaccines: Obamney is a staunch advocate of endless vaccinations for the entire population. It’s part of his strategy to inject cancer-causing stealth viruses into the population at large (http://www.naturalnews.com/033584_Dr_Maurice_Hilleman_SV40.html), thereby keeping America diseased and medically enslaved.

    Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036172_President_Obama_Mitt_Romney.html#ixzz26McLc3YU

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Everything you say about Obama is true but what makes you think things will be better under that flip flopping Mormon Romney? We renounced him when he ran against McCain for his lying. We had a chance with Ron Paul but?

      • George E

        Christian,

        The fact is that either Obama or Romney is going to be our next President. If it matters to you which one is elected, then you might want to consider voting for one of them. If it doesn’t matter, vote for anyone else, or don’t vote at all because either way it won’t make much difference to the final outcome. I don’t mean to be disrespectful to you, but seems to me this is the way it is regardless whether we wish things were different.

  • diderot

    Well, its Germany, 1936 all over again. Our choices: 1). Collectivist/Socialist/Communist Obama or, 2). Monopolist/Oligarchist/Royalist/Fascist Romney. Lovely. Both parties want the economy to collapse so they have no choice but to reorder it. INSERT NWO. OUT. Why do you think all these agencies are ordering up ammunition. They arevall preoaring for an outcry when it collapses. FDR: “Nothing occurs by chance in politics”. I am sure you are well intended, but any if these candidates are being vetted to absorb the electoral energy. If you, Mr. Root, are distressed now, wait til you get your wish. Sociopath vs. sociopath. God bless amerika.

    • mark

      It’s Germany in 1936 all over again?! What are you talking about? The Nazis came to power in 1932 in Germany with only 32% of the vote something that could never occur in the U.S. with our two-party and electoral college system. One month after being in power Hitler used the Reichstag Fire to implement a total coup ending all civil liberties, outlawing opposing parties, the free press, and freedom of speech. One month after coming to power. There was no election in 1936 in Germany. The Nazis had total power for over three years by then. They had murdered and imprisoned all their communist, socialist, and liberal opponents. They had total control of Germany – and had for some three years. Don’t you ever open a history book? What are you talking about?

      • Ye Olde Town Crier

        Maybe he meant to type Germany 1932?

  • mark

    Wayne Allyn Root, America’s Leading Libertarian?! What a joke, what an ego. Ron Paul is America’s Leading Libertarian, Mr. Root. Anyone with three brain cells knows that. Though, Ron Paul apparently lacks the guts, the courage, the intestinal fortitude to run for President as the Libertarian candidate. He has evidently sold out the Republican’s to feather his son’s nest in the party. So maybe Paul no longer is America’s Leading Libertarian. But I would see Gary Johnson as the number one libertarian since Ron Paul has taken the coward’s route – not Wayne Allyn Root.

  • CB

    Are you listening, Bob Livingston? Same for the rest of you Ron Paul supportors.
    We are in dire circumstances. The goal is to remove Obama from office. EVERYTHING ELSE IS A SIDE BAR ISSUE. Stay focused so that we can save our Country.

    • plasmarules

      The goal is NOT to remove Obamney from office and replace him with Obamney.
      Baaaaaaa! Baaaaaaa!
      Obama = Romney. Romney = Obama. Santorum = Obama. McCain = Obama. Obama = Bush. Obama = Clinton. Are you seeing a pattern here at all?

      • Ye Olde Town Crier

        Okay Mr. Naysayer, we don’t want to remove Obamney from office and replace him with Obamney. I think we all get your point.

        So offer an alternative or just go away.

        • plasmarules

          You aren’t aware that there are other parties in the US to choose from? It’s quite simple, Romney cannot win. The only hope the GOP had of winning was Ron Paul, because of the way they treated Paul the party is not united, it cannot beat Obamney. The outcomes are simple:

          1) Rmoney vs. Obamney with Paul not on a 3rd ticket – Obamney wins large
          2) Rmoney vs. Obamney with Paul on a 3rd ticket – Obamney wins wicked larger
          3) Paul vs. Obamney – Paul wins.

          Paul pulls more Independents and Dems than Obama pulls IND and REP. Romney is a disaster and lots of people see that he is not an alternative at all.

          So, with Paul not running your vote isn’t going to make a difference, might as well cast it to help ensure the Libertarian Party sees their biggest chunk of the vote ever.

  • A.J. Mesalic

    This is weak, Wayne. If it takes 4 more years of movement toward communism to have a true re-awakening of Liberty, I am willing to suffer and sacrifice. No more “lesser of two evils” false choices for me thank you. Change has to start somewhere. Romney/Ryan is not that change – they represent an uninspiring, incremental solution.

    What happened to your prediction that Romney will win in a landslide?

    Anyway Obummer will be blocked by a GOP house & senate so there will be less damage than you claim.

    I have to wonder how much you were paid to switch. It makes no sense if you’re principled.

    Really disappointed in you, Wayne.

  • dan

    Wayne , will you stand at the gates of perdition and howl : But I chose the lesser evil !
    here a compromise and there a compromise …politics is the devils science

  • Northstar702

    This is weak, Wayne. If it takes 4 more years of movement toward communism to have a true re-awakening of Liberty, I am willing to suffer and sacrifice. No more “lesser of two evils” false choices for me thank you. Change has to start somewhere. Romney/Ryan is not that change – they represent an uninspiring, incremental solution.

    What happened to your prediction that Romney will win in a landslide?

    Anyway Obummer will be blocked by a GOP house & senate so there will be less damage than you claim.

    I have to wonder how much you were paid to switch. It makes no sense if you’re principled.

    Really disappointed in you, Wayne.

  • Framingham47

    Welcome back Wayne we need you ,Obama must be stopped, he’s done enough damage to this country.Unfortunately, between his union minions, all of the voters dependent upon one social program or another,all of those who will vote for him solely because he’s Black,all of those who will vote for him just to prove that they’re not prejudiced,all of those who are products of our Liberal education system,etc,he’s going to be difficult to beat.Obama received the most votes for a presidential candidate in American history.
    We must All get out the vote this year.Offer to give rides to the polls to anyone and everyone we know,make phone calls,knock on doors,do whatever it takes to send this Chicago politician home.
    DON’T get hung up on where hes from,concentrate on moving him from where he is now.

  • bob

    I will not vote for Obaney. Thanks a lot repablican PARTY. Ron Paul was last hope.

  • Ye Olde Town Crier

    The ship USS America is sinking.

    Do everything in your power to save it or you are destined to drown with the rats.

  • uvuvuv

    war is being accused of abandoning his principals. once there was a new sailor who was actually terrified of being on a ship, he was almost catatonic with helpless fear. so they stopped the ship and put him out in a rubber raft. suddenly he decided he liked the ship after all. was he abandoning his principals or expediting his survival. this is what is at stake. you can argue the fine, fine points of libertarianism in the comfort of some salon and have everyone nod their heads in agreement, while the other end of the house is on fire. on the other side of the berlin wall you have dems who are definitely voting for obama even though they think he’s too middling. are you going to let them carry the day?

  • Ye Olde Town Crier

    Well shuckee darn. After I got through reading all the comments on what is so wrong with both Obammy and O’ Romney, it appears neither of them deserves my vote. Maybe I’ll just write in Daffy Duck as a means of protest.

    Or…………..I could vote for the Constitution party.

    Actually, I just tossed that out there to learn what is so horribly awful with that idea. I’m certain someone will enlighten me. There are so many uber-intelligent people commenting here today.

    • plasmarules

      OR as a means of protest you could vote for the Libertarian candidate, the only other candidate on the ballot in every state.

      • Ye Olde Town Crier

        OK, that is just opinion.

        Give me solid reasons why I should vote libertarian.

        If you can, then maybe we should mount a huge effort to sway the majority of conservatives over and to hell with the repubs since people seem to think the two parties are just opposite sides of the same coin.

      • Ye Olde Town Crier

        I read the Libertarian platform and I like it, a lot.

        I suspect W.A.R. is endorsing Romney because he fears voting libertarian will split the conserve vote and guarantee a win for Obama.

        It would take a major shift to bring enough cons over to the libertarian party to defeat all the sheep who will vote for Obama because they want all the free stuff he has promised.

        And that reminds me of an email I saved a long time ago.

        Check it out.

        The folks who are getting the FREE STUFF don’t like the folks who are paying for the FREE STUFF, because the folks who are paying for the FREE STUFF can no longer afford to pay for both the FREE STUFF and their own stuff.

        So, the folks who are paying for the FREE STUFF want the FREE STUFF to stop.

        But the folks who are getting the FREE STUFF want even more FREE STUFF on top of the FREE STUFF they are already getting!

        Now… the people who are forcing the people who pay for the FREE STUFF have told the people who are RECEIVING the FREE STUFF that the people who are PAYING for the FREE STUFF are being mean, prejudiced, and insensitive.

        So… the people who are GETTING the FREE STUFF have been convinced they need to resent the people who are paying for the FREE STUFF by the people who are forcing the people to pay for their FREE STUFF in the first place.

        We have let the FREE STUFF go on for so long that the people paying for the FREE STUFF are getting fed up.

        Now understand this. All great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250years after being founded. The reason?

        The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.

        The United States officially became a Republic in 1776, 236 years ago. The number of people now getting FREE STUFF nearly outnumbers the people paying for the FREE STUFF.

        ELECTION 2012 IS COMING

        A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!

        Culture: Constitution, and the Bill of Rights!

        Drug Free: Mandatory Drug Screening before Welfare!

        NO freebies to: Non-Citizens!

        • George E

          I’ll second that motion.

      • DaveH

        Town Crier.
        Do you think any of the Professional Tennis Players started out being good? Of course not. It took time and lots of practice. So why do you people think it is any different for Freedom? The Libertarians may not (probably not) be elected this year, but one thing is certain — If we don’t ever vote for them, they won’t have a chance. If they could just get 20% of the vote, it would be a huge wake up call for the citizens, most of whom don’t even know what Libertarians stand for. We have to start somewhere, and what better time than now?
        I’ve been listening to people say they like the Libertarian Principles for 40 years now, but they have mostly bought into the lesser of two evils scam so they don’t vote for them. It’s time to stop voting for evil (lesser or not) and start voting for Principles.
        http://mises.org/daily/4935/On-Underwriting-an-Evil

      • Old Henry

        Once again.

        Pragmatic voting always results in a downward trend in the quality of candidates.
        Politicians won’t change if they know we’ll vote for them anyway.
        Good candidates seldom receive the support they need to become viable.
        The problem of bad choices is thereby perpetuated, and the nation continues to deteriorate until the day when our choices will be an Adolf Hitler or a Joseph Stalin.

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    We are faced with: BAD or Worse… The Facts are, they both show as WORSE!
    Politics has become a problem! [I'M WRITEING IN DON TRUMPH!]

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    Mr. Root: The Libertrain Party ( when it is as should be) is Far greater than Rep’s & Dem’s!
    I will absolutely give NO Support to the Rep’s untill they Prosecute; the Political Bush Family, FOR TERRORISM! Missuse of Athority,

  • bob

    Lookaround this ship is going doun.Every conservative i talk to talks about stock up and run for your life,if you got the money for it?Not everyone has.

    • Ye Olde Town Crier

      If there IS a crash, the cities will become unbelievably dangerous.

      Get in touch with family or friends who live out of town. The farther out the better. Offer to bring food, extra clothing, or anything else that can be bartered. Discuss the possibility of you going to live with them. Start now creating a good relationship with them. If it gets ugly they might even need your help. If you ARE ready it won’t be quite so difficult to deal with. If nothing happens, OK, you were ready.

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        Ye Olde Dude: At the risk of boring myself, I’m going to get serious for a moment. Everyone, especially old people, should have a hand gun and a shotgun and know how to use them. Most gun stores give free classes. If someone enters your home uninvited, you must shoot. Now, I know someone is going to say “But what if it’s a small child?” I’m not going to suggest that you shoot a SMALL child, but the child may be a diversion. A teenager can, and probably will, kill you. A group of pre-teens can, and probably will, kill you. If Obama looses, I expect the streets in most big cities to look like the streets of Egypt and Libya for days or weeks following the election. If Obama wins, it will only be a matter of time before the economy collapses, inflation skyrockets, and those without anything start beating and stealing from the more productive members of the community. It will be a terrifying time for little old ladies. The weak and unarmed will be seriously brutalized or killed. Welcome to OBAMANATION.

        • actual socialist

          Quick queston mike do you get paid for such blatent fearmongering or are you truely that delusional?

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual communist: The Koch brothers pay me a small fortune every month just to annoy you.

          • George E

            Really? How can I get in on that deal?………………..ha.

          • actual socialist

            Really? because i would annoy you for a mama rosas mini pizza

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual communist: Every man knows the true value of his efforts.

          • actual socialist

            The pizza is not how much i value myself it is how LITTLE i value you

  • Pingback: Why America’s Leading Libertarian Is Endorsing Mitt Romney And Joining The GOP | The Minority Report Blog

  • stan

    It is amazing to me how anyone can continue to support Obama. Regardless of the circumstances of Republicans not cooperating and handed a bad situation etc etc etc. Fact, this country is in worst shape than it has been since the great depression.,Fact, Obama’s presidency is a complete failure in all respects. Fact, he has done nothing but lie and promise. His promises keep while running for President amount to 40%. He was a do nothing senator, I’m from Illinois and think he is and was a total disgrace then and now. He to me is an eco terrorist hell bent on destroying this country. Any body that supports his reelection is either a lazy good for nothing bum on welfare or has a government overpaid give me job or an idiot.

    I am also a libertarian and wish Ron Paul had won the nomination, but that ship has sailed. If you enjoy participating in discussion groups as this, then you better hope that Obama is defeated or you will not be able to express any dissenting philosophies or face prosecution. This is a BAD person. He is showing everyone by his actions that he does not have the good of the country at heart with almost every move, or , no move he makes. I truly believe he is a communist and is hell bent on destroying the country.

    There will always be people who are ignorant and that can not be reasoned with regardless of argument. I just hope that Americans can read through all the B.S. handed out by Obama and his Main stream Media hacks, and vote what is good for American as a whole as opposed to the self interest of the people sucking on the government tit.

    Not likely, I’m afraid it’s too late for TRUE AMERICANS to save what WAS a great and caring nation

    • DaveH

      Stan says — “There will always be people who are ignorant and that can not be reasoned with regardless of argument”.
      So I guess I shouldn’t waste my time, but I will anyway.
      Have you ever gotten to a Northern destination by traveling due West, Stan?
      Do you think we can ever get to Freedom by electing Non-Freedom-Loving Politicians?
      There is still a choice. Not quite as good as Ron Paul perhaps, but Gary Johnson is running and he shows promise of learning to be a much better Libertarian. He certainly far exceeds the choice of Romney. All people need to do is stop traveling West to go North, stop wasting their votes underwriting Evil, stop sacrificing their Principles, and vote for the only current candidate who wants to take us back to much smaller Government and Freedom and Prosperity — Gary Johnson.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP69507fTKY

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      stan: My advice to children: Take good care of your teeth, smile as often as possible, tell half of the people what they want to hear, tell them that the other half of the people are mean and evil, and then children, you can be a dictator when you grow up.

  • Dave

    BECAUSE he is a NeoCON pretending to be a Libertarian

  • randydutton

    How about getting Ron Paul onboard as well? We need a united front against the progressives. ‘Divided we Fall’.

  • bob

    I will do what i can and i will NOT run. I was born a AMERICA and i will dye a AMERICA but i will not vote for money when the money men hate the pore.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      You are a pretentious twit. A poor man never provided a job for another poor man. A rich man buys products and services that are made by skilled craftsment or common laborers. It is up to a poor man to make his skills indispensable so he will never be in want of a job.
      I become very suspicious of any that claim that they hate rich people. By this claim they are admitting that they are outright thieves wanting something that they did not earn.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      bob: What color will you dye it?

  • http://www.facebook.com/dave.lamarand Dave Lamarand

    Foolish. Romney is no better than Obama.

    I’m voting Gary Johnson!

  • Ye Olde Town Crier

    I don’t know as much about Romney as I do about Obama because he has been in the public eye.

    he DID appoint numerous “czars” who had socialist leanings. That has been made public. Obama didn’t care if we found out either. When one of them was outed, he just appointed another to take their place.

    You can tell a lot about a person by the type of people they surround themselves with. Obama socializes with and has appointed as aids, people who embrace socialism, communism, and who believe the second amendment is a bad idea.

    That much I know, for it was in several news outlets. Sometimes I’m surprised that managed to get out.

    If re-elected, Obama WILL have the chance to appoint replacement justices to the supreme court. He will definitely appoint those who will agree with his agenda. That could be the death knell to freedom of speech and the second amendment.

    this from the net:
    “It was Mitt Romney who gave a measured and thoughtful response to the events taking place in the Middle East while also standing up for the rights of Americans to freely express themselves without fear of reprisal from radical Muslims who might disagree with them.

    It was Barack Obama who gave a brief response written by someone else and then left without answering any questions.

    One man showed leadership.

    The other reminded us yet again when required to lead, they are little more than an empty chair…”

    Mitt Romney is now a lifetime member of the NRA. He freely admits he believes assault weapons should be banned because they were not designed for hunting. BUT, He staunchly believes every person has the right to keep and bear arms.

    He insists he is for smaller government and wants the gov to get out of the way.

    This is what I know. From the “net”. Hopefully I can still trust it.

  • Maureen

    It’s about time. What took you so long? I knew this in 2008 so why didn’t you and others investigate this in 2007. So get out there and start changing peoples minds. We all know that the US is going down so start getting Libertarians to vote for MR period it’s called putting your money where your mouth is. Not a whole lot of people will see this video…..

  • bob

    Do I like chat rooms anser not realy,if you could not tell iam not very good at it but i fill that i need to say what i see.

  • henry

    2 mr a gd leader shl b able 2 make all econimies prosper n @ peace that there is no no violence n all behave both tespect themselves n others as human irregard of status, b it, lo n hi cl, hi edu or mo rdu n rich or poor, btw i tok coks as i hv the calibre 2 b ur next president n wld u wrlcomer!

    • Maureen

      henry if you want people to read your comments stop being infantile and post with respect because the texting game just doesn’t cut the mustard

      • Ye Olde Town Crier

        That was texting?

        I just figured the guy was high on dope.

      • Old Henry

        That’s good Town Crier. I thought he was simply an ignorant recent graduate of our government run public school system.

  • Ye Olde Town Crier

    Well, I have a radical idea.

    Wayne Allen Root should confer with Ron Paul and get back to his Libertarian party. He should convince Ron Paul to endorse the Libertarian candidate and furthermore should join forces with the Constitution party and the GOOOH party.

    Maybe, just maybe, that would create enough interest it could draw all true conservatives over and get them to vote out Obama and Romney.

    that would send a clear statement to the two party system, “We are fed up with you.”

    I have long stated that the congress people from the last twenty years have been running America into the ground while getting incredibly rich in the process. Getting rich while the commoners sank into unemployment and debt!

    I think a good form of justice would be to haul them out on the lawn and apply a generous dose of tar and feathers. Then use cattle prods to make them to do the chicken dance as we chase them down Pennsylvania avenue.

    Both parties voted for the laws that caused the collapse.
    Both parties are complicate in the mess.
    To hell with both of them……………………..

    • Old Henry

      Bravo Town Crier!

  • Old Henry

    Mr. Root left out the disclaimer – This message paid for by the Committee to elect Mitt Romney.

    Another sell-out.

  • Ye Olde Town Crier

    HERE’S WHY IT WILL BE HARD TO UNSEAT OBAMA:

    The folks who are paying for the FREE STUFF can no longer afford to pay for both the FREE STUFF and their own stuff.

    So, the folks who are paying for the FREE STUFF want the FREE STUFF to stop.

    But the folks who are getting the FREE STUFF want even more FREE STUFF on top of the FREE STUFF they are already getting!

    Now… the people who are forcing the people who pay for the FREE STUFF have told the people who are RECEIVING the FREE STUFF that the people who are PAYING for the FREE STUFF are being mean, prejudiced, and insensitive.

    So… the people who are GETTING the FREE STUFF have been convinced they need to resent the people who are paying for the FREE STUFF by the people who are forcing the people to pay for their FREE STUFF in the first place.

    We have let the FREE STUFF go on for so long that the people paying for the FREE STUFF are getting fed up.

    Now understand this. All great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250years after being founded. The reason?

    The voters figured out they could vote themselves free money by electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.

    The United States officially became a Republic in 1776, 230+ years ago. The number of people now getting FREE STUFF nearly outnumbers the people paying for the FREE STUFF.

    ELECTION 2012 IS COMING

    A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!

    Culture: Constitution, and the Bill of Rights!

    Drug Free: Mandatory Drug Screening before Welfare!

    NO freebies to: Non-Citizens!

    My Goodness, am I becoming a Libertarian?

    • DaveH
    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Ye Olde Dude: Where can I sign up to get some FREE STUFF? Can I do it over the internet, or do I have to get up off my lazy ass? I hear that Obama is giving away cell phones. Can I get an i-phone, or do I have to take one of those cheap phones? Can you give me a ride to the FREE STUFF place? Can we stop at the liquor store on the way back?

      • George E

        Might depend on who you’re planning to vote for………….ha.

  • bob

    Well for rommy a half asalt on the constitution is just as bad as a all out asalt on constitution,i do not have eney arms nor do i fill i need them (at leas not now) but Section 2. of the constitution is VARY clear and you do not have to be a genes to under stand IT.

    0)

  • DaveH

    Wow. Wayne has completely come out of the closet.
    “America’s Leading Libertarian”. What a joke. He’s the leading libertarian in his mind only. No genuine Libertarian would endorse an Establishment Republican for any reason, because the main thing we Libertarians have going for us are our consistent Principles, in a sea of Unprincipled people. Principles cannot be compromised.
    I submit that this week’s article coupled with last week’s article by Wayne proves that he is a LINO.

  • http://personalliberty.com personalliberty.com

    I have watched several videos made by Wayne Root. As a Republican I agree 200% with everything he believes in. How can he get air time on any of the Networks to speak directly to the public just as he does here. We need someone to challenge the authenticity of “Barry” and then explain the stakes here in this election. It seems like the Liberals who are being influenced by this poser are blind to the facts surrounding his history. We need someone to wake them up. Short programs jabbing at various aspects of his life and philosophy are not working. We need a full length program with Wayne Root as commentator to lay out Obama’s plan and his ultimate plan. I think that Mr. Root will have a real believeability factor based on his attending College with Barry/Obama. Maybe interviews with some other fellow graduates who do not remember our President in their graduating class. Is it too late to buy airtime? Can we do a fundraiser to pay for this? I for one would be willing to donate. I would like to thank all who are trying to get the word out that a vote for a third party is a vote for Obama. Keep up the good work.

    • George E

      I agree with most of what you’re saying. However, after thinking about this a bit, I don’t think a vote for a 3rd party candidate is an automatic vote for Obama, but it sure isn’t a vote against him either. Libertarian principles cut across both Republican and Democratic Party ideals, so Libertarians could, and probably do, take votes away from both parties. I just don’t know to what extent. What I have been told, and I’m inclined to believe, is that most Americans believe in conservative principles more than progressive/socialist/liberal principles. If you can ever get all of these folks to vote under one banner, you would never lose an election. Nevertheless, if people believe that getting Obama out of the White House is a top priority, then they really need to vote for Romney if they want to impact this election. Otherwise, not voting at all might be just about as effective in the broader picture.

      I think the approach the Tea Party is taking is a more practical approach to influencing and changing American politics. Libertarians could play a big role in that movement if they wanted to. Building political parties should be secondary to influencing public policy through popular opinion, I think. Just my two cents.

      • DaveH

        Which came first, George, the chicken or the egg?
        Which came first, the knowledge of Freedom, or voting for Freedom-Loving Politicians? There’s no doubt in my mind that it was the former, because without that knowledge people have no way of recognizing a Freedom-Loving Politician. A good example of that is Wayne claiming to be a Leading Libertarian, when those of us who really are staunch Libertarians recognize that he isn’t, while the average person wouldn’t have a clue.

      • Bert Cundle Sr.

        David H.: The Facts of First… Long, long, ago… Politicans were in (2) Parties… The Jesus Party & The Christ Party… ( (1) for All & All for (1)… & We are the Government! ( God With us! …) Capitolism & Communism… Before them was: Matrearch & Patrearch. ( Mom & Pop.) Than King & Queen… But all of the past leads to a Final Everyone for them self!

  • http://www.facebook.com/patricia.nealmoreno Patricia Neal-Moreno

    I’m voting for Gary Johnson since the GOP cheated Ron Paul out of the nomination, and since Texas throws away write ins. I hope he gets enough support to win. I’d rather have a President Ron Paul, but I’ll settle for Gary Johnson.

    • George E

      Patricia,

      I hate to break it to you, but Romney or Obama will be our next President. No one else has a prayer of winning this time. If you don’t care which of these two win and you want to stick with your principles, vote for Gary Johnson. He’s a good guy, but can’t impact this election.

    • MarathonMan

      Given you logic , you’ll be getting Barry Soetorro.

      • Jeff

        Why do you think using the name Soetoro is clever? I could understand, maybe, if his birth name had been Soetoro and he changed it to Harrison or something to fit better in American society, but he already has a foreign-sounding name. And all the right wing kookery about Obama concerns his Kenyan father, not his Indonesian stepfather. Maybe it’s just to show the proper amount of disrespect so you fit in at the cool kids’ lunch table.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      PNM: You hope Gary Johnson “gets enough support to win”. Why do you think he has even a remote possibility to win? The only way he could win would be if Obama and Romney died before the election, and I hope that doesn’t happen. I like Gary Johnson, but he isn’t going to be our next President. Unless you want to throw your vote away, you must vote for the person who is least likely to ignore the Constitution. Using your precious vote to make some kind of a ‘statement’ is childlike and irresponsible.

  • DAvid King

    Obama is just a puppet, and Romney will be the next puppet!! Whats the difference? They are both just PUPPETS!! Ron Paul or Gary Johnson Is the only one to vote for WAKE UP AMERICA!!

  • diderot

    Hello. To Mark, I apologize for date mistake. 1932, correct. Reichstag fire……9/11. Removal of civil liberties…..Patriot Act which was drafted waiting for event to justify. Stooges…..Obama/Romney. Enemy…..US Constitution. How to destroy……Executive orders……..1932 all over again. Seig Heil.

    • mark

      But your analogy still makes no sense, since unlike 1932 Germany, we here in the United States do not have a major Communist Party, a major Socialist Party nor a major Nazi Party vying for political power in the election. We also do not have 30% unemployment like they had in 1932 Germany nor are we just coming off of 10,000% inflation like had recently occurred in Wiemar Germany. So all I can say is that your historical analogy is a vast exaggeration disconnected from today’s political reality.

      • macgyver1948

        Mark… It is (not so) funny that the party of the Right today wants to compare us today to how things were in Germany before WW2 but they leave out so many of the facts. It would be so tough for the party of the Right today to tell all the truth and still get their agendas flowing through to their base. Just look at this Root article…

        • Jeff

          When you say “look at the article,” you don’t mean I actually have to read it, do you? Wouldn’t that violate the 8th amendment? I mean, could this guy be more full of himself?

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… LOL…Amendment 8 – Cruel and Unusual Punishment . Ok, you don’t have to read the article if it would be cruel and unusual, LOL… If you are talking about our host in this article being full of himself I am not sure if he can or not be since he is full of something I wont mention here but maybe it is the same thing, LOL..

    • mark

      Also the 2001 passage of the Patriot Act did not abolish all U.S. elections, political parties, independent newspapers and radio stations, all free speech, the right to assembly, etc.
      This is what the Nazi decrees following the Reichstag fire did. So your analogies make zero sense.

  • bob

    GOD bless AMERICA and (her people)

  • Bruce Cohen

    http://www.larryelder.com/pg/jsp/charts/audioMaster.jsp?dispid=301&pid=58612
    Yesterday’s Larry Elder Show.
    Click ‘Interview with Nadine’.
    I come on as the last caller at 1:02:50

    I discuss Judge Gray’s apologetics for Islam.

    • aynrkey

      Since you’re so intent on disparaging the Libertarian Party candidates, perhaps you should find a candidate and a party you feel more closely represents your views. You can follow Wayne to his party where you actually belong. Say “hi” to Dondero when you get there.

  • HKaufman

    Its time to set Mr Root and the rest of the disparaging society of of Illiterate Self Loathing GOP band wagon jumpers; Read this and think on the following Batman Root, and make sure the rest of Gotham City readers comprehend…To Root dude,, are you and 99.9% of these readers that STUPID, or just trying to be funny.. If you’re trying to sell what the Republican Party can do for you, it’s best to remind people what its recent screw-ups actually did TO you. Especially during hurricane season. The past accomplishments of the team that tanked the economy, legalized torture and made the surplus disappear is not the best advertisement for the future. For the same reason you never hear the words, “From the director of ‘Corky Romano.’”
    Amidst the tired rhetoric, empty platitudes, and overwrought attacks, a fistful of awesome emerged in the night where it spent twelve minutes, on the most important night of Mitt Romney’s life, yelling at a chair! Paul Ryan stretching the truth to make his speech more effective is just another form of doping. In that if you believe him, you are a dope.
    Mitt, you just keep demanding that Americans answer the question: are you better off than you were four years ago? But just don’t answer it yourself, cause that would mean releasing more than two years of tax returns..
    Put that in all your tote sacs and answer those question…

    • Drew Evan Stewart

      BS

      Everyone is entitled to their opinion and freedom to voice it, but Historical facts cannot be changed; they can only be acknowledged, or twisted and/or lied about, as you have done here. Here are the historical facts I recently discovered, that the collective media and their successfully brainwashed subjects and drones refuse to acknowledge.

      The day the Democrats took over was not January 20, 2009; it was actually January 3, 2007, the day the Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate, at the very start of the 110th Congress.

      The Democratic Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.

      For those who are listening to liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is “Bush’s Fault”, think about this:

      On January 3, 2007, the day the Democrats took control of Congress –
      The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
      The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
      The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
      George Bush’s Economic policies had SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!

      January 3rd, 2007 was the day Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee.

      The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy?
      Answer: BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!

      THANK YOU DEMOCRATS (especially Barney), for taking us from 12621.77 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% unemployment to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Fiascoes!

      (BTW: Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting in 2001 because it was financially risky for the US economy). Barney blocked it and called it a “Chicken Little Philosophy” (but SURPRISE – the sky did fall!)

      And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? – OBAMA! (As a senator from Illinois )

      And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie? OBAMA and the Democrat Congress – especially BARNEY FRANK!

      So when someone tries to blame Bush… REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007… THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER!”

      Bush may have been in the car, but the Democrats were in charge of the gas pedal and steering wheel while they were driving the economy into the ditch.

      Budgets are not passed in the White House. They are passed by Congress, and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 was the Democratic Party.

      Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the budget process for 2008 & 2009 as well as 2010 & 2011. Obama has now gone 1,000 days without a budget, and is still blaming it on the Republicans! In that first year, Congress had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending when Bush, somewhat belatedly, got tough on spending increases.

      For FYI, 2009 though, Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid bypassed Lame Duck President George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the 2009 budget.

      And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of those massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete 2009. Let’s remember what the deficits looked like during that period:

      If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in the previous five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the wasteful budgets.

      If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself and a Democratic Congress.

      In a nutshell, what Obama is really saying is: “I inherited a deficit that I voted for, and then I expanded that deficit four-fold since January 20th 2009.”

      The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living were outnumbered at the polls, by those who vote for a living.

      We only need to ask ourselves and truthfully answer two simple questions.
      1.) What do I want to accomplish?
      2.) What am I willing to give up to get it?

      I want to live in America under the principles of our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution.

      I will give up my life to accomplish that, and I would vote for a bottle of ketchup over barack hussein obama, because if he is re-elected, it’s over.

      It’s time to pick a pony and ride America… we can hold Romney’s feet to the fire and make him work for us. He is not unreasonable, unwise, or inexperienced. He has common sense & a successful track record in business & in life. He will be part of the solution and if you aren’t part of the solution, you are part of the f@#kin’ problem.

      Period, dot, the end.

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        DES: I hate it when I’m compelled to agree with someone. It’s much more fun to take potshots. But I do agree, with everything you wrote. Well done.

  • Matt Bishop

    Who the HELL is Wayne Root? “Leading” Libertarian? I DON’T think so! He’s no Gary Johnson, or Ron Paul, or Rand Paul.

    “Bleeding” RINO would be aa more accurate description. Sorry Wayne, I’m not taking your Blue Pills.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001640884810 Lance Brofman

      When Ron Paul has the courage to endorse Gary Johnson and take all of the heat from those who say he should endorse Romney because he ran in the primaries, we will see what a craven jerk Wayne Allyn Root is.

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        LanceB: ….and what a loon Ron Paul is.

  • Mark Read Pickens

    Wayne Allyn Root is NOT a Libertarian!

    He is a social conservative with some libertarian attitudes. He belongs in the Republican Party.

    He was NEVER “the leading Libertarian.” We are better off without him.

    • Jeff

      I thought he established himself as the most important graduate of Colombia since he so eloquently proved Obama didn’t actually graduate. He’s convinced at least a couple of dozen people on this blog. Truly a legend in his own mind.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      MarkRP: If a few more people leave the Libertarian Party, you will be able to hold your convention at Dunkin Donuts.

  • RevNowWhileWeCan

    Wow. When did Ron Paul endorse Romney? I missed that because Root sure isn’t the number 1 Libertarian. Or 2,3,4,5,6,7,8……… I used to think Root had some principles and stood by them, boy did I squeeze on that call. I really can’t believe with all the available information out there that Root and a lot here really think establishment agenda will change with Romney at the helm. Make me wonder if he’s a sellout or if he really believes that? Either way Root, you struck out on this one, looking. LINO is definitely the operative word for the day in this thread.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Stalin said: Repeat a lie six times and it becomes truth. He also said: promises are like pie crust, made to be broken. I get the feeling that Mr. Root is just a little bit narcissitic. By his comments he’s in love with himself.

  • dan

    We need a clean slate party the t gets rid of all of the unconstitutional presidential dictates….
    and sunsets all of the unconstitutional laws….
    until then I’ll throw a vote to Gary Johnson and plan for a sabbatical abroad or a retreat to the hermitage

  • bwhyler

    Folks, Libertarians, use your heads. Go read in past elections, if you want someone who is in the WH out bad enough, then vote (not write in) fo the other guy in order to get that person out of the WH. Simple logic. Nothing more here! I agree concerning ideals, but in this case we need to all think like Wayne Allen Root.

  • Dan Fitzgerald

    The headline said that a Libertarian left the LP. Can you direct me to the story about that?

  • http://aynrkey.blogspot.com Ayn R. Key

    When was Wayne ever “America’s Leading Libertarian”? He was never our candidate, he was never our chair, he never lost his love for the Republican Party, and he was quite disliked by a very sizable chunk of the Libertarian Party.

    I’m glad he’s leaving, but seeing him make so many press announcements about it, and dragging our name down to Romney when he does so, is poisoning the well and burning the bridges. JUST GO!

    • Joe Marcom

      Actually, Wayne was our Vice-Presidential candidate last time, beause he got the 2nd-highest number of votes (behind Bob Barr) at the national convention. If not “The Leading Libertarian”, then at least “A leading Libertarian”, with some name exposure.

  • aynrkey

    Oh Bruce, since you are so intent on disparaging our candidates, you should follow Wayne out to your actual party too.

  • Joe Marcom

    Like Wayne, I left the GOP because they left me, and I was no longer willing to vote for the lesser of two evils. But a 2nd term for Obama would be so destructive, that I will hold my nose and vote Romney. I don’t trust the Governor, especially after he back-tracked on his pledge to completely repeal Obamacare, and I’m certain that the Republican National Committee will drag his Administration as far to the Left as possible; but for THIS ELECTION CYCLE, I’m pinning my hopes on enough Tea Party folks being elected to minimize the damage. I mean for this to be a one-time event, and I will otherwise be voting Libertarian. And I intend to vote a straight Libertarian ticket in 2014.
    I hate the situation as it exists, but the alternative would be to depend on an assassin’s bullet to remedy the problem – and that never works out right.

  • Ron

    Wayne, you’re as Libertarian as Paul Ryan. In other words, you lick your finger to see which way the political winds are blowing and that’s what you did this morning.

    You lost me as you lost your ability to see the big picture. A vote for Romney does what?

    changes Abortion rights? …he’s flipped on this issue before
    changes Gay rights? …he supports gay scout leaders
    changes Obamacare? …yesterday, he announced that he supports “parts of the plan”

    In fact, Mitt implemented his own version of Obamacare Socialism in his home state. So, what are we getting with Romney?

    After the rule changes, bullying, finger breaking, hip dislocating and brutal retaliation of Republican thugs at their various state conventions I can no longer vote Republican. They don’t have “family values” or any values that I’d care to associate with.

    In fact, I’ll vote for a Libertarian or write in a name. Can you guess which name I’d write in?

    If you want to keep the 2 party system alive and well… for Mitt or Obama.

    Think you’re throwing away your vote? … go read my short list above and see what you’re getting with Mitt.

    Mitt will quickly put us in the thick of the biggest war this country will ever see. This is the time to get our troops home, save money, deregulate, rebuild our manufacturing sector and get out of foreign entanglements.

    Mitt will do or say anything to get elected. Do you really want a President like that?

    We all know that as soon as the ballots went to the back room for counting Ron Paul had no chance of winning those primaries or caucuses. The hand count on the floor never matched the ballot count coming from the back room

    Don’t reward the Republican party with your continued support.

    Hand them a stunning loss that FORCES the Republican party to change to a course that reflects the small government principles of Ronald Reagan and Ron Paul.

  • Rocketman

    Unlike you I am a real libertarian. I have personally gathered thousands of signatures going door to door to get LP candidates on the ballot. I have been a LP county chairman and was the speech writer to LP vice presidential candidate Jo Jorgensen in 1995-96 when she ran. Barr was nothing but a fraud when he ran and now I see that you are no different. Answer me a few questions. Romney is largely the republican clone of Obama, mandated health care, gun control and so on. Do you see your new best buddy Romney eliminating the Patriot Act, the military commissions act, or the NDAA? I sure don’t. What about bringing the troops home from the middle east as well as the other countries where we have a military presence? Me neither. How about Romney gutting all of the executive orders that Obama has put in place? I’m willing to bet that not even one of them will be eliminated on Romneys first term or any personally individual privacy restored. I guess you just like Romneys economic policies over Obamas. That is the only thing that I can see. So go ahead support Romney and the Republican party. I sure that Fox news will be happy to have you back on as a new minted Republican but don’t think that you will ever again have any credibility with the LP because you won’t.

    • uvuvuv

      rocket j, yesterday i wasn’t serious when i said corporate profits are theft. yeesh subtle sarcasm doesn’t seem to work here.

  • Butch

    WOW what a disappointment Wayne is. So much for principle. I’m voting for Gary Johnson, if my vote actually counts for anything. I’m not convinced that the Banksters?NWO haven’t already decided who they want to be President yet. In case they haven’t, I’m STILL going to vote for freedom and liberty EVEN if it means the Fraud-in-Chief gets anoither 4 years to destroy America. Why? because maybe we deserve to be destroyed. If we continue to vote for the POS liars they keep putting in front of us, then why would they ever stop doing it???? Obumma = Robmey. Either way, America’s screwed. And we deserve it. Someone once said “People get the government they deserve”. They were right. America deserves to die because we keep choosing poison and rejecting any honest politician that gives them the truth they don’t want to hear. RON PAUL.

    • Quantummom

      Very well put, Butch. Excellently said. Ron Paul and no other indeed deserves our vote, my vote. Even if it only will mean a sign of protest, I will write his name down on November whether they count it or not. For me is, Ron Paul or none!

      • DaveK

        what about write in candidate Virgil Goode?

      • George E

        Problem is, we’re going to get either Obama or Romney. No one else has a prayer of getting elected no matter how much we wish things were different.

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        Quan: If you really want to protest, why don’t you spray paint Ron Paul’s name on the exterior wall of your local police station? That would have more impact. Then, when you are arrested, and your photo is in the newspaper, everyone will know about your protest. That is much bolder than simply throwing away your precious vote.

        • Jeff

          I think all Republicans should do the same. Maybe you can get some references to Hitler and the Mau Maus in the story so people will finally know the TRUTH [that you're all insane?].

        • George E

          Another good one. Maybe you’d better go take your meds, or consider a career change. Ha. Love it.

  • Ted

    Swamp fox – let’s see, you think that the President is a ” godless heathenistic(sic) Marxist Muslim America hating Muslim brothrhood(sic) jihadies(sic) Allah worshiping idotic(sic) perveted(sic) homosexual loving lieing(sic) scumbag.” Why don’t you tell us how you REALLY feel? Do you really think that calling the President names is going to get you attention from anyone except, possibly, the Secret Service?

    • Jeff

      I guess we don’t need to ask who Swamp Fox will vote for. Probably won’t leave the bar in time to make it to the polls. I wonder if he drinks in Boehner’s bar?

      • macgyver1948

        Jeff… I want to comment on one of your precious posts. You mentioned that the Koch Brothers are doing all they can to benefit their businesses and through politics is one of their ways. Well, that is my phrasing.

        They very much are doing that and they come by it naturally. They aren’t in politics now but they have tried in the past but their huge money is all over politics. Their dad, Fred, was a founding member and huge financier of the John Birch Society. They wanted to remove as many government regulation as possible and to prevent taxes from being raised on them. They fought hard against Civil Rights in the 1960′s and if we go into the JBS and Fred Koch backgrounds they can be very scary. The brothers are chips off old dad. I bet they love the Norquist Pledge…

        • George E

          Of course, the Koch’s love the Norquist pledge. Why wouldn’t they? I love it. The Tea Party loves it. Most conservatives and libertarians love it. Who doesn’t love it, and why not? Why should we give politicians more money to waste? When they clean up what they get now, then we’ll talk. This is sort of like the conversation you have with your kid who continues to run up debt on the credit card you gave them and asks for more credit.

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. Do you know what the Norquist PLEDGE is for you to love it? I have to ask if you love conflict of interest pledges with no honorable ways out for the signors. Do you like a pledge that will not work for any but the very wealthy and the big corporations that will prove to be at our expense more so as times goes by? Norquist says Romney will do as he is told so who will be running the Oval Office if Romney wins?

            I do not want higher taxes either but we have to be realistic about it. They will not be real when it comes to taxes and regulations or anything else the controllers of the N Pledge want. So love it if you want but I would think you would have to be a huge corporation or very wealthy for you to do so.

            By the way, you mention the Tea Party in this post of yours as loving it. Can you guess who they are an off shoot of and who are the main financiers and starters of it? OF course the Tea Party would love the Norquist PLEDGE, as you say.

        • Jeff

          When I was in high school in the early 70s, a group of us attended a couple of JBS meetings. They said things we couldn’t believe anyone would admit to believing, like nobody should go to school unless their parents could afford to send them, Communists were everywhere, and everything was part of a grand conspiracy. The problem is, those wild JBS attitudes are becoming mainstream “thought” in today;s Republican Party. Back then, there were actually thoughtful, liberal Republicans like Pete McCloskey.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Those are the point of the leadership of the JBS and now their off shoot The Tea Party. They declared President Eisenhower as a commie and that was because he didn’t agree with them enough. Reall Americanism there, huh?

            You say “The problem is, those wild JBS attitudes are becoming mainstream “thought” in today;s Republican Party.” With the Tea Party being that off shoot of JBS how else could it be today. The Koch Brothers “seem” to be no longer members but they still very much associate. The paranoia they spread is incredible and that help to also spread their hate for Obama. They are anti Civil Rights, an that makes them anti human rights if we aren’t them. They are so far right they could be what they say we should fear about Obama, which he isn’t.

            In those “back then days” of the 50s the Republican Party, the majority of them, still had what we needed as an opposition party to the Democrats. The Dems are not always right so we needed the Reps to balance us. Now with so many of the GOP being that JBS/TP way, with their conflict-of-interest pledges that are no-way-out without having your career destroyed, they make even Obama look so much more of the real American wanting liberty for all. We are in trouble as the JBS/TP gain in power.

          • George E

            I’ll remind you that prior to 1960, it was the Democratic Party that fought against expanding civil rights to women and minorities. The Republican Party historically led the movement for improving the lives of all people, including women and minorities. Check your history books.

          • Jeff

            Come on, George. You’re too smart to believe that and you’re not talking to someone who thinks history began with Obama’s inauguration. You can hardly tar the current Democratic Party with the Dixiecrats, all of whom became Republicans (in fact, the base of the party) within a few years of the passage of the Civil Rights Act. The Dixiecrats were nominally Democrats because no southerner would vote Republican for 100 years after the Civil War. But the Party of Lincoln (and Teddy Roosevelt and even Ike) has turned into the Party of Jefferson Davis. Or maybe they’re the reincarnation of the Know Nothings.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            It’s true that many Southerners did switch from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party over the years. However, it’s also true that the Republican Party historically was ahead of the Democratic Party in furthering civil rights among minorities and women. It’s also a fact that the Republican Party has never changed its core beliefs in that regard regardless who joined with contrary beliefs. I grew up in the South and I’ve witnessed segregation and discrimination in my life, but most of it was when the South was Democrat. As it became Republican, the South made a dramatic transformation, and I’d bet you’ll find discrimination there to be no worse than any other part of the country today, and thankfully, it’ll be much less everywhere than it was when we were kids. This country has come a long way. Don’t take my word for it. Look at what conservative blacks say about the Republican Party and their opportunities in this country today.

          • Jeff

            Two seemingly inconsistent things can simultaneously be true. It is certainly true that there are far more opportunities for racial minorities than there were in 1964. It is also true that for many in the inner cities, conditions are no better than they were in the ’60s. I believe when a group of people is damaged as profoundly as have African Americans by government policy for hundreds of years, it may take more than a generation of “benign neglect” to bring its levels of social dysfunction in line with the rest of society.

            It is simultaneously true that the rise of the Conservative Movement since the ’60s has been due, in large measure, to a reaction to the Civil Rights Movement. The race issue has been used, implicitly or explicitly, by conservative candidates from Jesse Helms to Ronald Reagan to Mitt Romney to stoke white resentment of affirmative action and all poverty programs, despite the fact more whites than Blacks benefit from such programs. You can deny this, but it is self-evidently true. Why do you think Reagan kicked off his 1976 campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi?

            If you think it’s an accident that the Republican Party is virtually lilly-white, think again. Romney is polling at “0″ among African Americans. Michael Steele and those other guys on TV don’t constitute a full % point. The debt is not really the issue but a stalking horse. Republicans have no problems with tax cuts or wars or both together increasing the debt. But they go apoplectic at the thought that any of the debt is due to programs to help “them.” So, we have ridiculous arguments that Obama is responsible for most of the debt. This is a racial argument because it is so transparently false. Romney and Ryan want to reduce the debt by cutting taxes and increasing military spending. Sound familiar?

            http://www.peri.umass.edu/fileadmin/pdf/working_papers/working_papers_251-300/WP260.pdf

            http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/obama-romney-deficit-debt-chart.php

            http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-07-11/news/30013193_1_budget-deficit-government-spending-tax-collections

            http://economics.about.com/od/governmentdebtsdeficits/a/budget_deficit.htm

            http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/76375/who-or-what-caused-the-giant-deficit

            http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/09/yes_tax_cuts_increase_the_defi.html

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I will only say this. The Republican Party would love to win a greater share of the black vote, and will make reasonable efforts to do so without trying to “out liberal” the Democrats. I believe black citizens share many conservative values and principles with the Republican Party, and will in time realize it. However, it does make the job much more difficult when the left, with the support of the MSM, continually bashes Republicans and conservatives the way they do. Regardless, in time I think Republicans can overcome this obstacle. You can bet the Republican Party has also got Jewish voters on their radar as well for basically the same reasons.

            I think you’re reading more racism into things Republicans do than is reality. In this day and time, why in the world would Republicans not be trying to recruit anyone who shares their values and principles? To do otherwise is the kiss of death. It seems to me that liberals see racism at every turn, even where there isn’t any. Interestingly, however, they seem to be blind to their own shortcomings in this regard. I believe conservatives for the most part have grown and moved on.

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. Speaking as a Jewish voter and being in contact with many Jewish groups across the country, you should not count on the big rush of Jewish vote turning GOP. You might have some very wealthy Jewish voters who would but on average most Jews are not very wealthy, some are poor even. Unlike what you say many Jews do not see the GOP being on our side and we do not see them wanting to be except to acquire our vote. Then nothing. Here and there you might but not enough for the GOP to count on for a vote as a group.

            Romney was a farce when he went to Israel and many of us saw that. His phoniness while he visited the Walling Wall was kind of clear as only an attempt to prove something to get the Jewish vote. Besides many Jews know Romney made light of Mormon immoral baptisms on Jewish dead and maybe personally participated in them too. How can that guy be trusted to protect Freedom Of Religion???

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Are there common issues that the Jewish electorate is principally interested in? What would the Republican Party have to do to win more Jewish votes? Doesn’t it bother Jewish voters that the Democratic Party hasn’t stood strong on behalf of Israel while conservatives have? Personally, it embarrasses me the way President Obama has treated Prime Minister Netanyahu.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… If any candidate or official, especially our president, drops support for Israel it would be a concern for American Jews. But Obama still professes support for Israel so we watch. If Netanyahu is right, as he said this week, Iran is as close as 6 months from having the nukes they want to destroy Israel. Obama will act in some protective way, I believe that.

            Jewish Americans are as non Jews in this country when it comes to economics and jobs. We all want the economy to improve and we know decently paying jobs is the right way to go and the sooner the better. Many Jews too cannot spend money we do not have enough of in the stores. That would go a huge way toward stimulating the economy if the extra money was there for the middle class.

            Since you asked “What would the Republican Party have to do to win more Jewish votes?”. At best I can answer only for me but I am in contact with relatives and many other Jews around the country who are Democrats and we are generally of like mind on this. For a very long time the Republican Party has been primarily for the very wealthy and the corporations but we saw the need for them in balance. Now we see since the major pick up of influence, on the REP Party, with groups such as the Tea Party (their leaders and creators) and very wealthy people, such as Koch and Norquist, we more than ever feel the GOP as pretty much all for the benefit and protection of the Big Corporations and the very wealthy and not so much for the rest of us. With Romney we Jews have a religious thing with him from when he and other Mormons committed immoral baptisms on dead Jews. I feel if he can at least condone that total disrespect for our faith he could affect Freedom Of Religion for others very negatively from the White House if he is “asked” to by his Mormon superiors.

            I also see a conflict of interest for him between his political pledges and his religion if those occasions come up.

            George, I do not know what to tell you other than to add we do not see Obama as the Evil he is being painted by the Right. I believe a few Jews might but for the most part we do not understand it as coming from any places other than hate and dark. And the more we Dems, not only Jews, get pounced on only because we do not agree with what the Right wants the more we see how their methods are wrong for us as well. We accept different points of view and Jews do understand what it is like to be told we are wrong because of our beliefs. Who would like that and because of that start betraying their own beliefs? Would that make you, George, more likely to distrust what they are saying or would you join them even if they made no sense to you? That’s in Religion and in their politics?

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. I’ll think about them.

            I think it’s interesting, however, that the Right has for a long time felt very protective of Israel and Jews. As such, we really think we’re making a big mistake by not showing the rest of the world that we will stand by Israel if necessary to discourage Iran and others from attacking Israel. Obama’s public disdain for Netanyahu doesn’t help this cause, and is a disgraceful way to treat a valued ally. It just seems to me that the gap between us isn’t really as wide as perceived, and I wish we could close it. You are aware that there are a number of very high level, influential Jewish members of the Republican Party, don’t you? Like our black and women members, they also catch more unwarranted and hateful intolerant attacks than those in the Democratic Party get. Such a shame.

            I detect that you’ve really bought into the Dems long standing claim that the Republican Party represents the interests of the rich while the Dems represent the interest of the common man. If you dig into that a little you will find that there are many very wealthy people in the Democratic Party and many, many lower and middle income people in the Republican Party. I think you’ll find most business people align with the Republican Party, not because they’re wealthy, but because they believe the Republican Party represents capitalism and free market economics better, and that’s what will propel our economy best. Think about it.

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. I have felt for a long time it would be a good message from the US to the rest of the world if we moved our embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to shout that America knows Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Many in the Middle East do not see Jerusalem as the Capital and with our embassy in another city they think America sees it that way too. We are sending a wrong message.

            I do know there are a number of high level members of the Republican Party who are Jewish… I do not like or trust Cantor and there are others there too. I also know there are Blacks and women in the GOP. They have Palin and West and Bachmann and the Pizza man who is with them in support and spirit. I do not know why they are there in support of current GOP issues. I know what they say and I do not believe all of what they say. Bachmann has said some very dumb Palin like things so it is amusing.

            Many on both sides of the aisle are very wealthy, that too we know… I believe the Dems more so represent the needs of the middle class and the TP/GOP is in there primarily for the benefit and protection of the very wealthy and of course the big corporations. It is how I see it. There is nothing wrong with having huge wealth, just what you do to get it and make more may or may not be wrong. Please notice my assessments of both parties are generalizations of the respective groups and not necessarily that of any individual. They both seem to have to vote, in general, according to party lines.

            You end with “I think you’ll find most business people align with the Republican Party, not because they’re wealthy, but because they believe the Republican Party represents capitalism and free market economics better, and that’s what will propel our economy best. Think about it”.

            I have thought about this for a very long time. I believe most business people who are Republican are so because the Republican is for them – business and not so much for the individual who is not very wealthy or a business. Both parties represent Capitalism but from different angles. And regulation is an additional corporate expense that the Republicans do not see needs for in their protection of business and that is why GOP is against regulation in general and the needs for them are not issues for them.

            It is about keeping expenses down, Payroll is a huge expense, growing the bottom lines and protecting the corporate reputation at all costs and that too the GOP will help with. For the Execs it is those things and the need to keep their Boards of Directors and the top shareholders happy. If they execs do not they may not get renewals on their very huge lucrative contracts when they come due. This is what the GOP supports. Where are the jobs considering many large corporations have been doing well for a while?

            I keep saying this and it is so obvious to me but who cares?

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            Mac, Palin is kinda like you- she says some goofy stuff…and she also says some really good stuff…Oh man- klnda like me, too…hmm…

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme…. LOL.. yep, I do get silly as she does I suppose. Thanks for the laugh…

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Also, doesn’t it bother you that the following groups have endorsed Obama and the Democratic Party?
            * Communist Party USA
            * The Marxist Party USA
            * The Socialist Party USA
            * Nazis Party USA

            At a minimum, I would think something might be wrong with my Party’s policies if organizations like these agreed with them. You know what they say about “birds of a feather?” Be careful who you associate with because folks might think you’re just like them.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Of course it would bather me if those groups endorsed me so it they do Obama I would want to know why they do. Where did you hear that those groups are supporting Obama? I would like to read about that…

          • Jeff

            Chris Mathews had the best description of Romney on the first night of the Republican Convention, observing the participants: “He looks like Prince Charles in New Guinea observing an alien culture.”

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… I agree, I really do believe to Romney we look like an alien culture. “How can those tiny people not be able to afford anything?” LOL

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Ok George, I will check the history books on that as you suggest. Maybe it is just the TP and their GOP’s turn to war on women and minorities and those who do not agree with them politically as well as those not on their acceptable religions list now. The point that should be made is how to stop all that for all time, regardless of who does it. If it was done by the Dems before 1960, as you say, then it was wrong then and it is wrong now and it does not matter who does it.

            HHHHMMM, I guess I was told, LOL….

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            It might be helpful to distinguish between Party policies/platforms and at random statements from various party members or people who call themselves conservative. If you look around you can find some half wit who will say just about anything. What’s important is what the party endorses and promotes. Take my word for it if you can, there’s a wide spread of opinions on the left like there are on the right and there are plenty of left-leaning wingnuts who will say anything as well. BTW, the left has suspected and claimed that the Tea Party is made up of people who are racist. However, I have never heard one true example that would validate that belief. I’ve seen TP folks, and I can tell you they are hardworking conservatives of which many are seniors who primarily want our government to balance the budget and pay down the federal debt. That’s not radical in my book.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… I have often stated I do not have a problem with the Tea Party followers as a group but I do with the leaders and framers of it.

          • George E

            What’s your objection to the Tea Party?

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Ok but I really am asking for you to do your own research separate from mine, maybe even before you go through mine. The below is from some notes I put together a while ago. Remember many sources are bias to some extent so look at my stuff and what you come up with through a strainer. Decide for yourself. Maybe you will see why Koch and Tea and other people like them scare me, maybe not.

            888
            Connections between Koch, The John Birch Society, The Tea Party, KKK, Nazis

            If we join a group for whatever our reasons we really should know the power and money behind that group – the leaders, creators and financiers. That is because it could feel “funny” if those leaders are not who you really think they are. If they are, great, but if they aren’t how would you feel then?

            We who truly cherish individual liberty and freedom should be concerned with ideologies such as Communism and Fascism/Nazism. Even Hitler hated Communism because it threatened his form of Fascism and he hated what we here in America have as well. All I ask is that you really know with whom you align yourself before you join and make sure those at the top are really your kind of people. Please remember Hitler some how convinced many of the German people he was on their side in spite of the fact he lost the election and then stole the government. Hitler was a very good speaker.

            Please do not settle for only what I am offering below. Do your own research and find out your way.

            888888888888

            Report: The Kochs, A Nazi Past, Oil & The Foundation of The Right
            American Fred Koch, and through association the Kochs from Germany, establish the John Birch Society in the 1950s in NY
            http://unknownjournal.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/%E2%96%BC-report-the-kochs-their-nazi-past-american-oil-the-foundation-of-republican-ideology/
            888888888888

            THE KOCHTOPUS : THE TEA PARTY, THE BIRCHERS AND AMERICAN FASCISM
            Koch Industries

            http://trismegistus.org.uk/DU/Kochtopus.pdf
            Included:
            Fred Koch was a rabid anti-communist and critic of the American Civil Rights movement, as well as a supporter of laizez faire economics, who sympathized with Mussolini’s Fascism, but considered himself a right wing libertarian. He became one of the main founders and sponsors of the extreme right John Birch Society. His sons retain their associations with John Birch Society members but are no longer members, and in their youth expressed disagreement with the society’s authoritarian traits and quasi-fascism.

            888888888888
            Kochs want to own America (Romney is their lynchpin)

            http://www.theprogressivesinfluence.com/2012/06/kochs-want-to-own-america-romney-is.html

            Included is a video and the question is “What is the John Birch Society. Pay most attention to the last 2 minutes but listen to it all.

            Also included:
            If Fred Koch was one of 20 founders of the JBS, I posit it is impossible his children (at least the two most visible) managed to avoid paradigm that coincide with the following.

            The John Birch Society is as anti-civil Rights, as the Ku Klux Klan. The basic difference between the two cancers in US society are tactics for achievement of a ‘snow white’ society. The JBS’s possible acceptance of African-Americans living in servitude and certainly in a state akin to American Southern Jim Crowe is both offset and complimented by the Ku Klux Klan and many other white supremacist groups. While the Ku Klux Klan is generally about the uneducated, and guttural business of hatred of blacks, Jews and Catholics, the Welch/Koch founded JBS is much more crippling to the basic fabric of a fair America.

            If you watched Point 2 of the video, you heard Welch speak about JBS’s concern with communism. Much written material indicate the JBS aversion to civil rights was, and is, based in its concern for infiltration of communist and associated doctrine. Nonetheless, we lump the Ku Klux Klan, the John Birch Society as well as the Mormon Church are similarly anti-minority and harbor beliefs contrary to American principles as a republic democracy.

            888888888888

            Here is a part of an article I enjoyed reading at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/08/1098463/-Doesn-t-Anyone-Remember-the-John-Birch-Society

            The 2012 GOP is the naked Emperor, but covered with tattoos reading “John Birch Society,” “Koch Industries,” and “I heart Bull Connor.” The “subjects” are the media, which thinks the GOP is clothed in the raiments of a respectable political party.
            When I grew up, the John Birch Society were the crazies — heirs to McCarthy, finding communism in any government program, seeing the Civil Rights Movement as just another arm of the communist party. They were crazy enough to be repudiated by William F. Buckley and Barry Goldwater.
            The 2012 Republican Party is barely distinguishable from the John Birch Society. It is funded in large part by the Koch brothers, the heirs of Fred Koch, one of the Birch Society’s founding members. The Kochs may not be members of the Society, but their ideas — extreme laissez-faire capitalism with communism lurking in any regulation, unions, health care and even Civil Rights laws — are virtually the same. (One of the current right’s few attempts to avoid looking like Birchers is morphing communism into “socialism.” No need to explain to the faithful that they’re really the same.)

          • Jeff

            Mac:

            Good research. I think roots in the JBS are sufficient reason to be disdainful of the TP. Every few years there’s another incarnation of the Republican Party (e.g. the Moral Majority, Christian Coalition, now T.P) but it’s the same angry white guys.

            I think the connection to Ilse Koch is doubtful though there seems to be at least a business connection to Erich Koch which may be more important than any tangential blood relation. I wonder if their tryst with the Nazis ever included Prescott Bush who also did business with them.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… I wouldn’t be surprised if Erich Koch and Prescott Bush at least knew of each other. They weren’t really competitors so much for Hitlers favors but they touched in some ways even if they never met. I would guess Hitler knew he would need a big Industrial base in America for when he invaded here, as he was planning, so he catered to the US wealthy as he needed to. Loyalty is very much up for sale when money and power is most important.

            All through history there has been some kind of coalition between the wealthy and the so-called righteous, often they were the same, so it was natural for here as well.

            By the way, Hitler used his hate for communism to rally the German people and that seems to equate to how The John Birch Society went after Communists whether they existed or not. I sense a connection with the old Nazi party in Germany and the JBS and with Fred Koch being a big part of JBS (and their off shoot as well) and now the chips flow close in form to daddy, I bet you can tell one the reasons I cannot trust the Koch family. Shalom…

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            I took time to listen to the 60 minute interview of Grover Norquist as you recommended. My comments to Norquist’s answers to questions which you have expressed concerns are: “Norquist wants to roll the federal budget back to that of 1900” – When asked, Norquist said he would be fine with the federal budget being the same as it was around the turn of the 20th century, or 8% of GDP because that’s the level the government had operated on up until that time. He admitted that he would be fine with privatizing programs like SS and Medicare. You expressed concern that Norquist might get Republicans to do this, and that would mean (in your estimation) that folks would lose these government benefits which would be devastating for many people. My take on this is that while Norquist might personally be OK with rolling the federal budget back to 8% of GDP, he has no power to do this. Further, the pledge he got Republicans to sign says nothing about rolling the budget back. It only says they won’t, under any circumstances, vote to increase taxes on anyone. Also, I’ve heard, and am 100% confident that what Republicans feel we have to do right now is pull the federal budget back in the range of 18%-20% of GDP, which is the historical level the budget had been at through the later part of the 20th century, basically up to the Obama administration. I don’t think this is at all unreasonable, and more importantly, necessary if we’re going to be able to ever balance the budget.

            On a personal level, I’m very pleased that we have folks like Grover Norquist watching over our politicians shoulders to try to keep them from raising tax rates. From a macro point of view, taxes taken out of the private sector to support government programs/activities, represents that much less money available for private use, including investments. There is no doubt that the government creates no value/wealth in the economy, so a dollar spent by the government creates less than a dollar growing the economy, but a dollar spent in the private sector does create wealth and grows the economy by more than a dollar. So, if we want to grow the economy, we need to leave as much money in the private sector as we can, and keep government spending as small as practically possible.

            I do worry a little about the lack of flexibility Republican politicians have in negotiating with Democrats now that they have signed the Norquist pledge. On the other hand, this has all come about because Republican politicians have agreed to tax rate increases in the past that have helped bring us to our current sorry state of affairs where we are now. So, basically, I thank God we’ve got folks like Norquist looking out for us because if they didn’t we’d no doubt get saddled with taxes up the wazzoo by Democrats who resort to that approach every time they get a chance, and have suckered moderate Republicans into their schemes time and time again.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            Norquist, likely, and I, are pleased that his name is now being spelled right ;-) … I’m still in Ben Franklin’s camp-
            “The government that would take 10% would be exceedingly oppressive.”

            I just wish that those who wish to create more government would agree to share the cost for 3 years, at which time everyone would decide whether to chip in or let it go…

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. I think you missed some things in the interview. Norquist is not in Government now but he has so much money and he will hurt those signers who do not comply with his wishes using his money so he does have loads of power. They will lose support when they run again and the negative ads Norquist will publish on them will hurt their chances for reelection….

            In the interview Norquist says – If they sign the pledge they get support, they get to govern, they win and I make it possible. If they do not sign the Pledge, or they violate it, they are toast.

            He has the huge money and the clout for him to be a major toaster.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            I know, but isn’t that what you would expect from a large donor organization? What do you think the labor unions tell Democrats about their positions on various laws? I have no doubt they make it very clear that they support labor union initiatives or they don’t get labor union funding. What’s the difference?

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO8qZP_iU9I&feature=related

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. The petition I wrote and have on line is to help stop Conflict Of Interest in government. The N Pledge is just that and as we find other COI activities, coming from TP or Norquist or unions or anyone else, I want it stopped. If we do not stop it, with elected and appointed officials, we will be losing on a more escalating scale and we are drowning now with the help of the COI.

            You say “Macgyver, I know, but isn’t that what you would expect from a large donor organization?”. Another major conflict of interest was SCOTUS’s decision to back Citizen’s United. If we do not know who is donating to our “representatives” how can we know who is buying the loyalties of our “representatives”? This goes on all the time but now with SCOTUS permission. It is wrong however we look at it and we lose because of it.

            Thanks for the video link… Obama – The Anti-Israel President – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO8qZP_iU9I&feature=related
            I hope Israel can count on the US. I also want our Embassy moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem for many reasons. One of those reasons will show US support for Israel. I have a feeling with a very few weeks, Israel might feel the need to do the preemptive thing on Iran. Then Iran might just do the Al-qaeda things on us as well as on Israel. We could have a world wide party if this happens but if Israel is right and does nothing there will be a nuclear winter where Israel now is, as well as in some of the surrendering areas. This video is very informative and it relates to real history.

            I will consider its anti Obama message but so far Obama says he will be there for Israel. If Israel is blown up before the election, if Obama continues pressure on Israel to stop the needed defensive settlements and to not preempt Iran, he just might lose a huge percentage of the Jewish vote. This is scary any way it goes.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            One day in a used book store about 7 years ago, I ran across the “Blue Book” of the John Birch Society, and figured for 35 cents I could at least check it out. To make a long story short, this dry, dated little book contained more prescience by far than any other book of its time (written in the early 1950s). Even today, you would go far to find as accurate a summation of America’s trajectory toward disaster. I am not a member, I’m just sayin’…

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme… Have you read any other Mein Kampf like books since then?

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            >” Have you read any other Mein Kampf like books since then?”

            Um, the “Blue Book” is pretty much about the actions and progress of the “Mein Kampf” crowd… now showing in a formerly free Republic near you…

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme… LOL…I believe it could be but it is not coming from Obama’s direction.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            Agreed. it’s the direct result of our own apathy and thanks to public schooling, ignorance.

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme… I didn’t really enjoy school at all until college….

          • Jeff

            There was a book around at the time called “None Dare Call It Conspiracy” that tried to make the case that the Illiminati, the Rothschilds, and the Rockefellers had orchestrated everything negative that had happened in the U.S. for over 100 years. Pretty crazy stuff. How you interpret their “predictions” depends on your political views. If you’re a right winger, you’ll be inclined to believe JBS’ prediction of a socialist America was fulfilled by Obama’s election. That doesn’t make it so.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            Whatever we call it, we are responsible. WE elect the clowns, over and over again. As Einstein said, “Insanity is repeating the same behavior and expecting different results.”

          • Jeff

            To which behaviors does the Einstein adage apply? How about expecting tax cuts and deregulation to lead to prosperity? Remember 2001-2008? Got insanity?

          • George E

            Jeff,

            If you don’t think tax cuts and deregulation lead to prosperity, maybe you can make a convincing argument that tax increases and adding new regulations will lead to prosperity. I’d like to see that. If I told you we wanted to take the same amount of money out of the private sector through price increases, say for higher gasoline prices, you’d probably readily see that the net effect of that would be to slow economic growth, so why can’t you see that taking money out of the economy through higher taxes will slow the economy? Also, when did adding more red tape to any business or individual really help the economy? I will agree that “if” the regulation is necessary to keep monopolies in check or criminal activity under control, those kinds of regulations are needed. However, many others are not really needed to maintain civil society, but do add complexity and cost that drains the private sector of time and capital that could be put to more productive endeavors.

          • Jeff

            The problem may be the Republican lexicon. Every regulation is described as “unnecessary;” and “job-destroying;” every lawsuit is “frivolous’” and every tax is “confiscatory.” How do you have meaningful dialogue with people who worship Ayn Rand and believe the government has no role other than the military and the courts? Every regulated industry started off unregulated. The regulations were enacted in response to a perceived jneed. If the regulation has become unnecessary, argue why it is so – not how all regulations are the result of socialist policies.

            A perfect example is the repeal of Glass-Steagall. It didn’t come down from Mt. Sinai. It was enacted in the 30s to curb some of the abuses deemed responsible for the ’29 crash and the resulting Depression. It worked for 50 years until the S&L Crisis. Then we got rid of it because it was “unnecessary.” Maybe it needed to be strengthened and updated rather than abandoned. But the Banks focus on this stuff while most members of Congress depend on “experts” like Gramm to lead them by the nose.

            So, when some knuckle-dragger like Louis Gohmert says environmental regulations are “unnecessary,” pardon my laughter.

            Are some regulations rendered unnecessary or counter-productive by advances in technology? Certainly. The computer age and cell phones have changed a lot of things and I can understand changing regulations to meet changing times. But people don’t change, and regulations designed to guard against fraud or pollution or putting defective products into commerce, etc. should not be done away with because a new majority in Congress has a new religion called De-Regulation.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I think you and I would agree in principle that some taxes and regulations are necessary and beneficial. So when Democrats say that Republicans want to abolish all taxes and all regulations, or Republicans say that Democrats want to tax us 100% and control everything, we’ve probably taken the discussion to the extreme. The discussion really should be about what is necessary and appropriate. One thing I will say in this regard is that our politicians, and the people they hire to write and enforce regulations, write thousands of pages of new laws and regulations every year, but spend relatively little time simplifying or eliminating existing laws and regulations. That strongly suggests to me that over the many years of our growing government, that we undoubtedly have too many complicated and onerous laws and regulations, which among other things, adds a lot of unnecessary cost to our lives and businesses. This saps energy and money out of the economy. My own experience doing my personal income taxes suggest that is true. I can only imagine what companies have to deal with and the number of additional people they have to hire to deal with all of these regulations. All this needs to be cleaned up. We should all agree to that, I think.

          • macgyver1948

            George E. Tax cuts might lead to “prosperity” if the guys receiving the cuts use them to create jobs and invest more in their companies. So where are the jobs since the Bush tax cuts and since the Right complains so much there are too few to see them? Where is the “prosperity” from those cuts?

            As of cutting regulations. The Companies want deregulation because that lowers their expenses and their concerns for the environment as well as their considerations for people. Would you be ok with always wearing a surgical mask, or worse, all the time going through the streets or in the country? How about needing to boil all tap water before you can drink or cook with it? That will come in time with all the deregulation the big companies want just so they can lower their expenses and do as they please.

            We know that many big corporations are doing well, are in the black, and have been for a long while. So where are the big corporate jobs? We know that the Execs receive huge (Multi $Million) salaries and bonuses and benefits. So where are the big corporate jobs? Do you really think deregulation will lead to “prosperity” for anyone but the big corporate execs, their big corporate boards of director and their big corporate investors? If you do not see this then “So where are the big corporate jobs?” and the “prosperity” for us all who work for the big corporations? Oh wait, the big corporations are not creating the jobs in the numbers we need them to so how can there be?

            What are big corporate execs waiting for since they can create jobs if they only wanted to? Could it be that Republican in the White House and the major GOP majority in both houses? If that is true then who are we and who cares about what the middle class needs? The TP/GOP love this slow down in job creation because it gives them more to hate Obama with. Creating Jobs in not a priority for the Big Corporate Execs.

            By the way many regulation are necessary to keep monopolies in check or criminal activity under control, they aren’t only to protect us and the environment, without them the corporations would be as little boys in their having fun making themselves so much more wealthier. Try keeping kids under control and disciplined without any ‘parenting’. We need to make sure the discipline is just and warranted and we cannot leave it up to the Kids, the corporations. It will never work that way if you allow the kids to control themselves.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            It will be helpful if we can agree that some taxes and regulations are necessary and beneficial. It will also be helpful if we quit claiming the Republicans want to drop all taxes and all regulations, and the Democrats want to tax all of our income and totally control our lives and businesses. Those are extreme talking points pushed by the parties to strengthen their hold on their supporters. They do not represent reality.

            I’m 65 and I’ve seen a lot of changes over my lifetime. One of the biggest has been in the environment. My perception is that our air and water are cleaner than they’ve been in 200 years. Let’s be honest about that. Everyone is for keeping our air and water clean, but that means wastes that can harm our health and/or denigrate the beauty of the land or water, and/or create obnoxious odors or other things that significantly impair our quality of life. It does not yet include carbon dioxide emissions. The fact that we’re opposed to adding significant taxes and regulations to control CO2 emissions, shouldn’t classify us as wanting dirty air and water. It would be nice, and more accurate, if the left would put this issue in perspective as well.

            Even though the left doesn’t acknowledge it, the Bush tax cuts did indeed stimulate the economy and significant tax revenues were collected thereafter. I understand that the largest companies didn’t create a lot of high paying jobs with plush benefits during that time, and that middle income workers didn’t benefit as much as executive level workers. The reason had little to nothing to do with executive’s desire to keep middle income workers down. It had everything to do with 1) improving efficiencies in tools and methods creating less demand for these workers, and 2) the global economy where our companies are competing against companies in other parts of the world with much lower cost labor. That’s not a Republican or Democratic caused problem. It’s just a fact of life we have to learn to cope with. I think we could do a lot better if we moved on past denial and blame, really focused on the issue, and did the things we can do to help our companies be more competitive in the global market. There is no conspiracy against the middle class in this country, and they do benefit by living in American and participating in a large, robust and growing economy.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… It would help if we could agree to those things. I have been harping on this for a while. With so many of the GOP, over 270 in Congress, signors of the Norquist PLEDGE, it is impossible to agree that the signors have not betrayed us so they can have Norquist help them stay in office and since they fear Norquist for how he can destroy their careers they will do his bidding. But maybe you and I can agree on how it should be even if we do not on how we each see it.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Isn’t the Norquist agreement an agreement not to INCREASE taxes rather than an agreement to ELIMINATE taxes? I agree with not increasing tax rates (or most deductions and credits) until other measures have been taken first.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Yes, the Norquist Pledge is about never raising taxes, even if there was a “temporary” tax decrease as with the GW Bush one. It is more than only taxes. I sent you the links so relax and see what you see..

          • George E

            I havent’t seen the links yet. I would like to hear what Norquist has to say. Regardless what Norquist or others say, we’ve got to get the cost of government back down below 20% of GDP, get the budget in balance, and a plan to start paying off the enormous debt if we want to fix our financial dilema. How we allocate the money that’s left is another issue, but we just have to bring the government’s financial condition under control. You can agree with that, can’t you?

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I’m serious, and don’t mean any disrespect, but I really don’t know the principle differences between the current Democratic Party platform and that of the American Democratic Socialist Party. Can you help me understand? If I can determine that there really is a definable difference and the Democratic Party is something other than socialist now, then I will gladly quit referring to the President and other leaders in the Democratic Party as socialist. Thanks,

          • Jeff

            As I know nothing about the ADSA and assume it has approximately 14 members, I don’t really care. The Democrats are a little less in love with big business than the Republicans. That hardly makes them Marxists. If you think it does, go back and read Marx.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I didn’t call you or Obama “Marxist.” I do believe, however, that you guys and the Democratic Party are basically socialist nowadays. If Democrats don’t want to be referred to as being socialists, then please make the case that you’re not. Thanks.

          • Jeff

            When did Romney stop beating his wife?

            It is self-evident that Obama is not a Marxist or socialist because he has done nothing to nationalize industries. I believe I’ve already stated this. If your definition of socialism is marginal tax rates 3% higher than you want them, then I guess he meets the definition. But I think you’d fail political science at any real university with a definition like that. At Liberty University or Jim Jones, you’d probably be valedictorian.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            OK. If nationalizing companies is the test whether a liberal is a socialist, then that’s fine. I’ll have to think about it a bit, but my quick response is I don’t think Obama has technically nationalized our companies, so for that test, I’d agree that he’s just a liberal, not a socialist. I don’t think the rest of us think of socialism in that same way, however. When we think of socialist governments, we think about large, powerful, controlling governments, redistribution, and collectivism as inherent characteristics of socialist governments. In our minds, our government already fits that profile pretty well, and not just because of Obama.

          • Jeff

            Well, there’s France and then there’s North Korea. Is France a socialist country? If so, then what is North Korea? We have nowhere near the public sector France has so we can’t be whatever they are.

          • George E

            it’s getting late and I’m getting tired. I’ll think about it and give you a response later. In the mean time, don’t confuse me with facts…………..ha.

          • actual socialist

            You know who had a large powerfull goverment? mousalinni was he a socialist? and what is wrong with taking money from billionares to fund housing for the poor? and collectivisation allows several groups of farmers to work together to produce a bigger crop is that such a bad thing?

          • George E

            Socialist,

            If people voluntarily agree to go along with those kinds of government programs, it’s OK. Otherwise, it’s forced legal robbery, and that’s bad. Capitalism works well because it works with the human spirit. Other dictatorial forms of government don’t harmonize with the human spirit, so they don’t work very well.

          • actual socialist

            Just to be clear if the american people voted an admitted socialist into office you would be ok with that

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            If? Where have you been for the last generation? While such voting will give the American people exactly what they deserve for following such a path, I for one reserve the right to be really upset. Choosing to squander our liberty is still a crying shame.

            “Those who would trade Liberty for Security deserve neither.”- Benjamin Franklin.

          • actual socialist

            Ok when was the last time the american people voted into the white house an individual who said I AM A SOCIALIST? when? please i am curious because i can not find it ANYWHERE in the historey books

          • sootsme

            Labels don’t matter. If you ask 10 people what “Socialist” means, you will get about 12 answers. The point is that our government, and their intrusion into our private affairs have grown far beyond their role as it was understood by our Founders, and that fact means we have been shorn of a large part of our God given self determination as free, sovereign people. This is the path to tyranny, by whatever name, or even if there is no “correct” name for the actors or the system responsible. To many, “socialist” is a convenient label, right or wrong, that they use to indicate those who favor larger government, central planning, and generally a state where people are highly regulated. You have to remember that a high percentage of current public school graduates barely read. To nit pick with such mental giants is futile, and indicates either masochistic tendencies, or a desire to foster confusion about the real issues at hand. Not saying this is an ideal situation, just how it is. Blame public school, the media, and most politicians, if it makes you feel better, but it likely won’t help… As for me, I am self governed and I am willing to do whatever I must to remain so…

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual communist: When was the last time the American people voted into the White House an individual who said I AM A SERIAL ADULTERER? I CAN NOT FIND IT ANYWHERE IN THE HISTORY BOOKS. But Clinton’s DNA is on the blue dress. How do we know Obama is a socialist? How about from his own words? Obama said “We’ve GOT TO MAKE SURE that people who have more money help the people who have less money. If you had a pizza, would you give him a slice?” You can easily find many quotes from Obama that prove his socialist mindset. You want more proof? How about the people he has chosen as cabinet members and friends? If you would like the complete list, go to commieblaster.org I’ll doubt if you will do that. You are not a guy who wants to prove himself wrong.

          • Jeff

            So then, all Christians are Communists? I mean, wouldn’t a good Christian give the starving man a slice of his pizza?

            In reality what happens is this: out of 12 slices, the Banker takes 11. He then tells the angry white guy that (Black guy/woman/Mexican/union worker/whoever) is going to take your slice and buy (drugs/abortions/younameit) with it. Thus, the working class Republican who votes against his own interests every time in the name of Christian values (read: Corporate Values).

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            Jeff: Who said anything about Christians? I’m not a Christian, and many of our founders were not Christian. I assume that some Christians would share their pizza, and some would not. The point is that it is not the government’s business to force anyone to share the pizza. If your banker is taking 11 slices of your pizza, he has an idiot for a customer.

          • macgyver1948

            WOW Jeff…. Very good…. Sad isn’t it? We can’t have it both (I call it Paul Ryan) ways. Either we give the poor man a slice of pizza and let the charity be itself or we don’t. How is that commie ways to offer charity for the sake of charity? But I guess some feel it is so we have to allow them their First Amendment rights.

            And if we are not careful the banker will take 11 ½ slices before he allows us any. My bank holds, Bank Of America (BOA = Boa Constrictor), for up to 10 business days (= or up to 14 calender days). That means the banker gets to play with interest from our deposit (while he says he is just waiting to see if the check clears but with today’s banking computer systems they can tell within a day or 2 and I am being nice to the banks with those days) before he allows us to use it for a bit.

          • actual socialist

            The whole premise of your argument is false because ” the communist distains to hide ther views and aims they OPENLY declare that ther ends can only be achieved by the forceful overthrow of all existing social conditions ” that is from the communist manifesto you know the book you CLAIM is guiding obama if he were a true marxist he would shout it from the rooftops not conceal his goals and belive it or not there was a time before this ” greed is good ” garbage ther were some wealthey people who actually realized that it was ther civic duty to help those less fortunate were you get the idea that only a communist wants to keep the poor alive is beyond me

          • George E

            Just to be clear, the answer to your question is “NO.” I definitely wouldn’t like it, and would be very sad that citizens of this great country had allowed their thinking to become so warped as to think socialism is a better economic system than capitalism. Very sad day for the USA.

          • actual socialist

            I think what you mean to say is it would be sad they did not agree with YOU anymore

          • George E

            Yes. I would say that as well.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            What if I, the farmer, prefer to grow a small, high demand crop, take my loot, and spend the rest of my time doing something else?

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            sootsme: Have you ever wondered why the Communist Party USA doesn’t run a candidate for President? If you go to cpusa.org you will discover why. The communist party platform is EXACTLY the same as the democrat party platform. If you want to see the list of socialists and communists who surround Barack Obama, then go to commieblaster.com If you want to cleanse your mind of all that stupidity, go to YouTube, type Thomas Sowell into the search engine, and listen to the voice of freedom.

          • actual socialist

            The communist party usa is a falsley named group who have tured ther backs to the comittment of revolution

          • sootsme

            Yep and the GOP, in practice, isn’t all that much better.

            “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.”- Benjamin Franklin.

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            sootsme: Yes, and Ben Franklin would have had enough sense to vote for the lesser of two evils.

          • actual socialist

            Which means he would still be voting for evil

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual communist: You really are too stupid to vote. Please stay home on election day and watch re-runs of Tom & Jerry.

          • actual socialist

            Yeah it takes a genius like you to vote for someone he does not even like

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual communist: ….someone I don’t like? Where did you get that? I have the highest regard for Mitt Romney. He is a man who has led an exemplary life, given millions of dollars to charity, and raised a wonderful family. If he is elected President, our economy will start to improve the first day he is in office. Even your miserable, negative, disgusting life will improve.

          • actual socialist

            You actually think romney cares about you don,t you? all he cares about is making life for his rich friends easier in fact read ” obama romney can,t save the dollar ” put up earlier and you will see the folley of your statement

          • actual socialist

            As my mother would say ” tough tittes “

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            My mother stopped telling me what to do about 40 some years ago, and even then she encouraged me to choose and follow my own path.

          • Jeff

            Sounds like a great business plan, or maybe a movie. Have you approached Bain Capital for financing?

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            Um, I guess I’ll just invest a small amount of my own resources, then reinvest what would otherwise have been outgoing interest. The idea is to enrich myself, not someone else. Compounding is awesome when properly employed

            “Borrowing destroys the edge of husbandry.”- Old Jewish Proverb.

          • macgyver1948

            actual socialist…. Mussolini was a monster and so was his buddy Hitler. But to your points. If you take incentive away you destroy the reason to work hard. Why bother if the results of your efforts will be taken from you? So many of the Italians hated Mussolini.

          • George E

            Another nice response. Hey, you’ve become a Republican and just haven’t realized it yet. ha.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… LOL.. yep I have always felt that way as an American and it should have nothing to do with party affiliation. Cheers to us both. :-)….

          • sootsme

            Wow- next we’ll all be singin’ Kumbaya up in here… Couldn’t hurt…

          • George E

            That’s OK with me. I like it when we can agree once in a while. Reminds us that we’re not really all that different after all. That’s a good thing.

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme…. LOL.. .Kumbaya or Havanagela (spelling since I am not sure of it), LOL

          • actual socialist

            But cosider this you give a homeless an apartment he still has to pay for the electrisaty the water the phone his food his clothes yes he has shelter from the elements but that is all he has so you see you have not removed his incentive you have only removed one of his many obstacles to a decent life. as for the collectavised farm think of it this way if you and you friends all own the farm your incentive is that the harder you work the more food you harvest for the people the more money you earn to evenly divide amongst yourselves insuring that not only you bit your partners can take care of your selves and your families think about that for a moment

          • George E

            There have been many examples of people trying this over the years. Results have never been outstanding, especially for those forced on people by the government. When people own their land and the crops they grow on that land, they will work harder and get better crops than those people who work the government’s land and get the same share as everyone else. Why should anyone work hard on a government collective farm when everyone gets the same share, regardless? Sounds good, but isn’t nearly as productive as private ownership.

          • actual socialist

            Because the goverment does not owm the farm the farmers own it as partners and you work hard as i already said because the more food you harvest the more money you get which means your share gets bigger seriously READ THE POST

          • George E

            OK. Why don’t you find a private communal and join it? There are a number to choose from, I understand. Maybe you’ll like it.

          • actual socialist

            I belive i will that way when the econamy finally implodes my partners and i will be able to take care of ourselves and others while you are leaving others to starve

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            When you use the fruits of my labor to pay for this stuff, it seriously diminishes my incentive. If it doesn’t affect yours, I will gladly send you the bill for “my share”.

          • actual socialist

            We use our own shares to buy our own nessasities and the size of your share is proportunate to how much money we earn get it right

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            “My share” is what I produce. Your share is what you produce. If we want more/less/different than one another, we work harder/not so hard accordingly. This is as it should be.

          • actual socialist

            No our individual share is the amount of money we earn after working together to produce the most food possible

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            Sure, in a Socialist country. Not here. Not on my watch. Sovereign does not mean subject to the will of the collective. Thanks, but No Thanks.

          • actual socialist

            I see so people should STARVE so you can make money nice to see how your mind works

          • sootsme

            Are you serious? “People” are free to do the same for themselves…or not. Folks have done quite well having overcome every imaginable challenge, seemingly by force of will alone. Can you say Helen Keller? “God helps who help themselves.” So do I. Slackers, on the other hand, not so much. The choice is mine, not the government’s.

          • actual socialist

            Just remember this when the crisis hits people like you who turn ther backs on ther fellow man will be shot between the eyes and thrown in a ditch by those who are looking to provide for others

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            Thank you for sharing, and good luck with that. You have a real nice day now, ya hear?

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            Even forgetting about big businesses, the fact that private enterprise far outproduces communal/collective enterprises should be a big clue. Further, if you knew some of the career slackers I know, you wouldn’t be able to say this stuff with a straight face, assuming that you are doing so now, and not just playing devil’s advocate to get a rise out of those who take themselves too seriously. Either way, the arguments are weak, aside from their entertainment value.

          • macgyver1948

            anti socialist… Another analogy coming up…. I look at it like this considering your apartment example. We have given them a fish but not taught them how to fish. We have to teach them to fish and then let them wade in on their own but not totally cutting them off if they have questions and need help when the sharks come by and eat all the fish in the water. Bad, nasty sharks.

            If it were me I would learn all I could on how to fish better from those given lessons, maybe from Uncle Sammy’s GI thing. Yes, maybe give me that apartment but I better know know the pay the rent every month. 300 million new apartment recipients can’t be supported by the my Uncle Sammy for long so back to fishing.

            Now if a fish or two was taken from my daily catch for my later years by my Uncle Sammy, for when I retire and can no longer fish, they are owed to me then but for now I will hook my own lines and get wet and fish-smelly every day. And in my learning better ways to fish I have the incentive, from me and, with knowing the help from my Uncle Sammy will be there if I need it, to want to catch more fish because what I catch is mine to do as I want.

            If my Uncle Sammy takes most of my fish from me why would I want to work hard? I keep most of my catch, earn interest, share what I want and I am a happy Capitalist fisherman. I know my Uncle Sammy is there if I need help but on an ongoing bases I want to do it myself, for myself/family. :-).

            Thanks for the apartment and the fishing lessons to begin with Uncle Sammy. I will take it from here unless the sharks come again.

            WOW, that was fun, now I will go fishing, :-).

          • actual socialist

            You are aware that alot of people who are currently homeless had a job but lost it and evrything else in the crash right?

          • macgyver1948

            actual socialist… I am very aware that many people over the years were made homeless by employer downsizing and out right firings. With employment comes the risk of losing it as the employers needs and wants dictate. I get it….

            These are risks that need to be taken but at the same time we should be working on ways to better ourselves so we can cope if and when it happens. We cannot depend on any employer but they do not want us to realize that. They want us to feel more loyalty toward them then to even our own families until they no longer need us. Again, as we need JOBS we have to go along to get along. We have to be in compliance at all times on the ‘job’. If we don’t like it we can try to go someplace else, as thought that would be easy, but it will be the same but with different faces. So, live with or do something about it for yourself.

          • actual socialist

            Why are you so willing to let some fatcats whim dictate your life

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. I’m sorry and I know Jeff can speak for himself very well but I want to say something too. We dems do not have to make any sort of case that we aren’t something we are accused of by the Right. We are not socialists to the point you say we are and we are not Marxists or fascists/Nazi just because you claim we are. It is you who have to prove we are and you haven’t come close in doing so.

            We could, just as rightfully so, say that the GOP and TP are Nazi and tell you to prove other wise because it would be the same as what you are doing. Why can’t we get over the BS name calling and at least try to work together to fix the ills of our government? I feel, from the Right, “you stole my play block so you are a dirty rotten worm”. Let’s grow up and help each other with “real” facts and truth instead of edited out-of-context lies and name calling. Nothing can get done that way and the huge bad guys win. They must love what we do to each (side) other, maybe a divide and conquer (of the little guys) thing.

          • Jeff

            Yes, that’s why I began my last post asking George to “prove,” tongue-in-cheek, that Romney has stopped beating his wife. It’s as insulting as asking Rep. Ellison to prove he’s not a member of Al Quaeda.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            Point taken. Likewise, I’d appreciate you guys not referring to conservatives, including the Tea Party, as racists either. You may think what you wish, but we shouldn’t have to prove that that label doesn’t apply to us either. Deal?

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Point taken. I’ve already agreed to back off calling you guys socialists. However, I’ve also said that to us the line is very thin between liberals of today and socialists, but then that’s just the way we see things.

            By the way, we’d appreciate it a lot as well if liberals would quit calling conservatives racists. That cuts pretty deep too. We don’t think that’s warranted either.

          • macgyver1948

            George E….I personally do not call conservatives racist, it is way to general for me. Besides there are some libs who are racists too. It is just to individual to do that to a group for me. I have many videos of Tea Party events where many of them are that way and nasty to any who will not agree with them, and not allowing others their Free Speech rights, but I do not use them in my mailings or writings because I do not feel comfortable doing it. I cannot control what a “lot of liberals” do, just what I do. If you sense me saying something that is “unwarranted” please let me know. Elaine on here sure does when she feels I do, :-)…

          • George E

            Agreed.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            Seems that way, but conservatives could turn that around on you and say that nowadays you can’t find a thoughtful conservative Democrat like you used to could. (Actually, some of us think there haven’t been very many truely committed conservatives in either party for many, many years, and I really don’t think we’re all that “radical” in our beliefs like some liberals might like to think.)

          • Jeff

            Why do you think the parties are becoming stratified by education more than by income? Most educated people find the Republican attitude toward science and thought completely odious. Republicans find it hard to believe not just in “controversial” topics like global warming but in things as mundane as evolution. How can you even study biology without accepting that organisms evolve, everything from bacteria to humans. If someone says that the earth is 6,000 years old and Jesus rode on a dinosaur, do you need to ask his political affiliation?

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Education for the most part seems to inspire people to think. The more you think the more you wonder about things. I believe God gave us the ability to wonder, to inquire – to question things. I believe those were gifts and not tests from God. And it is not the opposable thumbs that makes us different from all other animals because we are not the only ones with those kinds of thumbs.

            Thinking for ourselves is not what some power structures tends to want for its people. There were church officials over the centuries who said they hope the people remain illiterate so all they will know is what they are told. They want obedience and if people investigate or inquire that tends to irritate those kinds of authority. The Tea Party wants people who will believe only as they do and speak as they do too. I have seen videos of Tea Party rallies and how they argue with people who wont agree with Then TP people often to get very loud and vulgar and it seems to be so they can over power the differing view points.

            You are right, you really cannot study biology without at least wondering about evolution, even if you do not accept it, so it is baned. Maybe Biology will be baned too some day but I wonder how many future med students there will be in the far right.

            Since moving to the bible belt I have often heard the notion “if it is not in my bible it does not exist”. Dinosaurs have never existed so its political affiliation wouldn’t matter, LOL. I also very much doubt Jesus would align himself with the GOP but what do I know other than when I have read in Christian Bibles?

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I don’t know where “most” educated people fall in their political beliefs. I do know that a strong majority of the people, mostly engineers and business managers, I know and work with are conservative. I also don’t know anyone who doesn’t believe in the theory of evolution. I do. I also don’t know anyone who thinks that man-made global warming is a fact. We are strongly suspicious that it is contrived by politicians to gain more control over our lives and our money. On this issue, we will hold out until the theory is proved beyond any reasonable doubt.

            I doubt that the participants on this board are actually representative of cross section Republican and moderate conservatives in this country in some ways. You may note that Republicans are criticized a lot here as well as Democrats. It wouldn’t really surprise me to find out that the number of people on this site that admit to voting Republican are not more than the Democrats.

  • bill coleman

    don’t care what people are or what people call themselves. do care whether or not their vote will help put obama back in office. since the re-election of BO is the worst possible outcome for people who love the U. S. Constitution, please use good logic and explain to me why you would do anything that would help get BO re-elected. bill coleman vin 5 ron et yah oo period com.

  • BitterClinger

    So let me see…. this guy wants me to vote for a guy who believes humans are causing global warming and loves the idea of cap and trade. He also endorsed one of the strictest gun control laws ever to see the light of day…. he also STILL supports Roe vs Wade.

    Are Americans so freaking STUPID that they think there is any difference between the two candidates??? Mittens Romney may not do as much damage as Obama/Soetoro has done, but he will change nothing.

    • George E

      So, if “bad” or “worse” is going to win the election, you don’t care if “worse” wins? Won’t make any difference to you? If I can see enough difference between the two to be able to say one is worse than the other, I think I’d vote for “bad”. That might give us more time to fix the process and get to “good” at some point in time. Anyway, that’s just how I see things.

  • http://carolmoore.net Carol Moore

    I’m so glad that Root has returned to the republican party where he belongs!!

  • JON

    I’m thankful Mitt Romney is the GOP nominee! It will do nothing but help to get our President to be reelected! Go Obama Go!

  • Pingback: ROOT FOR AMERICA: Wayne Allyn Root Endorses Mitt Romney « Publius Prime

  • JON

    My God! Wayne is so long winded today! Like I have the time to read his long drawn out article. Some people just love to go on and on and on….

  • NoteToSelf

    It was Mitt who blocked Ron Paul’s delegates from the convention. I’m not going to forgive him for that. Forget Mitt. I think you are getting along to get elected to the Senate.

    • Quantummom

      Notetoself, Amen to that comrade! Ron Paul has won already. Romney is a joke the same as Obama. Why would anyone vote for the very same person who cheated a honest, intelligent, honorable man as Ron Paul? It boggles the mind. Ron Paul is our President already, our president of hearts and, an excellent guide to our adquisition of true practical knowledge in the midst of tragedy, as I perceive the foul play of politicians from “left” and “right”. I will leave this site now after I have read this “announcement”. Very sad indeed.

  • macgyver1948

    Ok Root…. I think I heard you say Reagan’s policies turned Carter’s stuff around. Even if Reagan did Reagan was the tax and spend Republican. George Bush Sr ran his one term campaign on “READ MY LIPS, NO NEW TAXES” and then soon after he was in office he raised taxes. There are times when reality and circumstances should dictate tax increases and spending. No one wants higher taxes but unlike with you common sense should prevail. So please take your Tea Party and how you want to starve the budget as you starve the needed help for people out of existence. Do it the Norquist and Tea Party ways and that is what you will get. I see you mention that the Republican Party abandoned you and maybe they knew better when they did.

    • DaveK

      I wonder if Bob will kick him off the web site?

      • macgyver1948

        DaveK… Bob said he wanted this site to be for all points of view and I suppose that includes even Root with his hateful and misguiding TP (&*%*&%)(… We should have a site which accepts all views but Root is beyond all that… I do not understand how there are any people who do not see through his obvious ranting based on his hate.

    • George E

      Macgyver,

      What good does it do to raise taxes? The government just squanders the money away. They don’t use it to pay down the debt, and certainly don’t try to reduce waste, fraud, or abuse when they have more money coming in. When the government leans up and commits to reduce the debt with any additional money they get from us, then we’ll support raising the additional taxes needed to run the government efficiently. Until then, we’re not going to go down quietly.

      • macgyver1948

        George E… I am not talking about raising taxes just for the sake or fun of raising them. There needs to be real justification for it. We cannot live with the blatant no-way-no-tax hike-under-any-circumstances rule or hurtful pledge. By the way, we do have a very harmful pledge that over 270 GOP in Congress have signed where if any of the signors do not comply the owners of the pledge will destroy their careers and the biggest of the owners is a multi-billionaire. Romney and Ryan have signed that pledge and the pledge is a major conflict of interest. I have been saying if circumstances and reality dictate the need for a tax hike or returning a tax to its before temporary lowering levels then it might be wise.

        We will kill needed programs with a ‘not ever’ tax raising policy and I fear that is where the TP/GOP is wanting us to go.

        • Jeff

          I think George, or maybe Elaine, should have the job in a Romney Administration, of explaining to parents whose child is cut off from health care or whose benefits run out that their child cannot get care (and must die?) because Mr. Romney needed another tax cut. We would like to feed poor children, but we can’t because we had to give tax cuts to the super-rich. At least Rockefeller used to hand out dimes!

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… I agree. I feel those who support the Ryan and Romney plans should do that explaining on a 1 on 1 face to face bases. The GOP who support canceling school lunches should also explain 1 on 1 face to face.

            Jeff, you do understand as we cut taxes for the very wealthy and decrease regulations the costs have to come from some place. The concept of deleting regulation and lowering taxes for the big corporations is to save them money but who will pay for the higher rates of environmentally caused diseases? I suppose if they win the White House and more of Congress ObamaCare will fall and the expenses will load up on us. But that shouldn’t matter so much because with less regulations, which will affect big corporate job creating and payroll itself, most of us might not be able to pay for mush anyway.

            I know I harp a lot on the Norquist Pledge but that will help the Big corporations get what they want – considerably. That is what it is there for…

          • George E

            You have to look real hard to find a year when the federal budget actually went down from the previous year, regardless which party controlled the Congress or the administration. So when you guys tell people that the evil Republicans are going to “cut” your social benefits, I really think you’re exaggerating and misleading people who listen to you. Generally, what is discussed is a slowing of the growth in these programs, not cutting them altogether. If you guys can’t see that the government is wasting a lot of the money we give them now, and should clean up their act before asking the rest of us to pay more out of our hard earned income, then we’re going to have a hard time coming together on a common solution. Are you willing to compromise at all?

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. for your statement “So when you guys tell people that the evil Republicans are going to “cut” your social benefits, I really think you’re exaggerating and misleading people who listen to you”.

            I think you really do not know. You haven’t heard the backers of the N Pledge speak of how they want things done. They want to starve the social programs, such as Social Security and Medicare, into extinction and not just “what is discussed is a slowing of the growth in these programs”. I heard Norquist say he wants the budget and the tax base brought back to what they were at the beginning of the 20th century – specifically to where the budget can fit into a bath tub – his words. We can never again survive on a budget that small. The inflation since WW2 will not allow for it.

            I very well know the government is wasting money in huge bundles but it is not the programs we need that need to be cut. We need to shrink Government with compassion and prudence but we need to. The purpose of pledges like the Norquist one is to miniaturize the expenses of huge corporations and very wealthy people and that means total control of payroll, with no minimum wage and fewer employer contributor benefits, and getting rid of expenses like Social Security. Oh, let’s not forget to eliminate regulations as much as possible because even the ones that protect the environment and our health are expenses to the corporations. Are you still loving it?

            You say “So when you guys tell people that the evil Republicans are going to “cut” your social benefits, I really think you’re exaggerating and misleading people who listen to you”.
            If there is any exaggeration it might be to show the truth but there isn’t much exaggeration so I cannot agree with you.

            If I am going to compromise it will not be at the expense of people who will stave or lose their living quarters because the compromise must include bringing their monthly allotment to a level where they cannot pay their needs. For example, people depending on Social Security are struggling with the amount they receive now so lowering what they get could bring many of them to choose between food and meds or paying their electric bill or rent. This is reality so please do not insult me with “I really think you’re exaggerating and misleading people who listen to you” again. I would be very willing to discuss compromises on other issues that do not involve living/eating for many.

            If the costs of food and other necessities goes up, as in more inflation and less value to expanded fiat printing of money, I can’t consider compromise in those areas. Even missing 1 month in payment is dangerous because it will be near impossible to catch up on bills. Try catching up on not having eaten for a couple of weeks or a month.

            As if you and I could do something about it in compramizing, LOL.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Norquest and many of us want federal government spending to be reduced back to pre-Obama and historical levels; ie, 18%-20% of GDP. He probably said that’s the level our government has run on going back to the early 20th century. If we can’t get it back to that level, we will go beyond being broke. Please don’t try to convince yourself or other people that Republicans want to cut all of their social benefits to zero. What they are trying to do is save these programs by getting their cost under control. That does require slowing their growth, especially Medicare and Medicaid, and prioritizing benefits to current seniors over future seniors who haven’t paid in as much to these programs.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Listen to what Norquist himself says. IT is not the pre-Obama era where he wants the levels adjusted to. It goes back many decades before Obama, before WW 1.

          • Jeff

            George:

            I don’t think a potential President Romney would successfully cut all gov’t programs to nothing, but it’s not that great of a leap to think so. He picked Ryan for V.P., the guy with the “marvelous” budget that reads more like a right-wing political letter to Santa than a budget. He wants to fundamentally change Medicare into a block grant and a voucher to seniors that will never be sufficient for them to purchase insurance.

            Republicans and conservatives have opposed all these programs in the past. It’s in their political DNA, so why would it be so difficult to imagine them gutting them? I like the way FDR put it best, describing Romney Vintage ’36:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3RHnKYNvx8

          • George E

            Jeff,

            Your accusing Republicans of gutting Medicare and Social Security because they propose to manage the growth of those programs is like Republicans accusing Obama of trying to make America communist because he is trying to move America to European style socialism. As you’ve lectured me, let’s keep these things in perspective and not overreact either way. Republicans have always understood that both of these programs were poorly designed from the outset and would someday cost the country more than it could afford. That concern/prediction is playing out. However, Republicans have attempted to reform both of these programs so they wouldn’t go broke, but Democrats have rejected all such attempts and wrongly claimed that Republicans only wanted to destroy them.

          • Jeff

            “Reform.” What a lovely word. It can mean anything. Like tort reform. It usually means injured people get the shaft. Reforming social security can involve raising or eliminating the cap on earnings taxed, it can mean means testing benefits (probably a bad idea), and it can mean reducing benefits. Which type of “reform” do you mean? What type do the Republicans mean?

            Medicare is a bit more complicated because no one knows exactly what medical care will cost in the future. But the Ryan budget, endorsed by Romney, is not the answer. If the gov’t sends you a voucher worth $6,000 toward the purchase of private insurance and a decent policy costs $10,000, the voucher is worthless. This is where “values” come into play. Is it more important for Mitt Romney to have his tax cut or for us to fund Medicare?

          • George E

            Jeff,

            Yeah, I know. Republicans are the bad guys out to stick it to all of the poor defenseless folks while giving big tax cuts and hand-outs to the rich. We all have heard that one over and over and over until we’re sick of it. While there is little basis in history or fact to validate that concern, you guys apparently have convinced yourselves it’s true. I guess the only thing Republicans can do to help is keep hands off and approve everything the Democrats propose. Right? Well, there’s still about 50% in this country who vote them into office to do more than that, so I think you can rest assured they’re not going to roll over to whatever the Democrats want to do.

            Yes, “reform” is a tricky word, a little like “transform.” Don’t you think. We need to look into the details to see what’s really behind the curtain. The first point that everyone really needs to grasp is that the federal government has got to put a plan together to cut and/or raise an additional $1 trillion dollars each and every year, assuming no additional growth in government spending, which at this point is a very remote possibility, in order to balance the budget and stop digging the debt hole deeper. If interest rates go up at all, the government won’t be able to afford the interest on the current debt, let alone any additional debt that’s added. Tax increases alone will not close this gap without destroying the economy. The government has got to find ways to cut spending, and unfortunately that’ll probably mean trimming some of the benefit programs someone is now receiving, or planning to receive at some point in the future. There’s almost no way around this. It’s my understanding that the Democratic plan to address this issue is to 1) ignore the problem as long as they can, and then 2) raise taxes (likely on everyone) to close the gap. Republicans, on the other hand, plan to 1) grow the economy all they can, partially by not taxing it to death, to raise as much revenue that way possible, then 2) trim benefits to those who have not paid into the programs all that much yet, like the young (who, by the way, will accept this plan because most of them don’t think they’re going to get anything out of these programs anyway. At least this way they will get something). At the end of the day, we can argue over who gets what when we’ve got a budget that gets our finances back in balance so we know that the country isn’t going to go under because of the weight of its massive debt, and the government has enough money left over to provide the essential services it’s supposed to provide under the terms of the Constitution.

          • Jeff

            George:

            It comes down to values. If what you value is invading countries, you put it on the credit card. Likewise with tax cuts. Or you can put together a healthcare system that won’t bankrupt the nation. Why do we spend double the %GDP as other advanced countries and get worse results? There are ways of looking at these problems that can be productive. I’m not saying Republicans are evil; they just have different values and a different sense of morality.

            http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/76375/who-or-what-caused-the-giant-deficit

            http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/09/yes_tax_cuts_increase_the_defi.html

            http://www.peri.umass.edu/fileadmin/pdf/working_papers/working_papers_251-300/WP260.pdf

            http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/obama-romney-deficit-debt-chart.php

            http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-07-11/news/30013193_1_budget-deficit-government-spending-tax-collections

            http://economics.about.com/od/governmentdebtsdeficits/a/budget_deficit.htm

          • George E

            Jeff,

            Prioritizing how we want to spend the money the government raises has a lot to do with our values, but one value we should all agree to is that we won’t let the government spend more than their income. We haven’t gotten to that point in a long time, and time is running out for us to get it done. If we don’t, we will go over the financial cliff. We’re probably going to anyway, but I would like to see us go down fighting, if we’ve got to go down. To balance the budget, we’ve got to cut about $1 trillion in spending or raise that much additional revenue, or some combination of the two. I don’t know any rational person who thinks we can raise that much money through higher taxes and not totally destroy our economy. That means, we’ve got to CUT some spending and hold the budget where it is today. How we do it, is secondary to the fact that we must do it. If we allow this discussion to stay in the weeds (details of what will be cut and by how much), we’ll never get to cutting. My opinion is that if they just make the cut across the board, that would be fair and fast. Then we can argue over how to apportion what’s left. The other thing we should all agree on is that the more money we take out of the private sector in taxes, the slower our economy will grow, so we really need to be careful trying to cut the deficit through increased taxes. Maybe we can get a little that way, but I’m sure most of it should come from spending cuts if we’re going to address this problem responsibly.

            BTW, you really need to read more conservative opinions on this subject to get a more balance view.

          • Jeff

            You may not balance the budget by raising Romney’s taxes, but the Bush Tax Cuts account for a big chunk of the deficit – way more than any of Obama’s policies. Now Romney wants to double down on those same policies of Bush? Thank God his campaign is imploding.

            http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/obama-romney-deficit-debt-chart.php

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            Jeff: If Obama is reelected, will you be thanking your god for that also?

          • George E

            And, he may be wishing Obama hadn’t won before it is over. But then I guess they can blame all of the problems in Obama’s second term on Bush, Reagan, William Taft, Calvin Coolidge…….

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            George E: Liberalism is a brain disease. The only known cure is to isolate the patient, and expose him (or her) to books on tape by Milton Friedman (Free to Choose), Thomas Sowell (Economic Facts and Fallacies & A Personal Odyssey), and Mark R. Levin (Liberty and Tyranny & Ameritopia). The patient must remain isolated until he can recite key passages from each book, and sing the Marine Corps Hymn.

          • George E

            Ha, ha, ha. I’ll keep that in mind. I know those references have done lots for me. I don’t know how anyone can hear what Milton Friedman has to say and not become an instant disciple. Thanks.

          • Jeff

            Sounds like the Republican definition of “freedom” and “liberty.”

          • actual socialist

            That is called brainwashing and it has been used by petty tyrants for decades

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual communist: That must be what happened to you. A petty communist tyrant washed your tiny brain.

          • actual socialist

            I choose my ideaology based on my views of life on my observations of the world unlike you who has been seduced by cheney

          • George E

            Whether Romney wins or loses should be secondary to the issue of getting our economy back on track. If Obama sticks with his policies of spending like there’s no tomorrow and raising taxes to cover it, is just going to ensure that the economy stays very weak and continued hardship on everyone. You know Obama isn’t serious about controlling spending because he hasn’t insisted on getting a budget since he’s been in office. He has, however, got very detailed plans on how he can tax everything that moves.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            Our government is wasting a lot of the money they take from us today. Why in the world should we give them any more until they make an honest attempt to clean up the waste, fraud, and abuse they’ve already created? BTW, I heard a recent study that says you can’t find any hungry people in this country now. The fact that they are classified as poor isn’t the same as actual poor people in other countries. Having said that, we are all for helping those who can’t help themselves, but that’s all. Everyone else can either help themselves or go without. Enough already.

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            George E: Time constraints prohibit me from reading all of the comments posted on this site. However, I always read your comments. You are a guy who makes a lot of sense.

          • George E

            Thanks, Mike. I hope I’m setting a good example and making a constructive contribution. There are many others who have much better information than I, so I rely a lot on my common knowledge and logic. I think if we can spend less time insulting each other and more time making our cases, we’ll all benefit more, but that’s just my opinion. I get the impression others just enjoy the bantering. Not me. Take care.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            “I think George, or maybe Elaine, should have the job in a Romney Administration, of explaining to parents whose child is cut off from health care or whose benefits run out that their child cannot get care (and must die?) because Mr. Romney needed another tax cut. We would like to feed poor children, but we can’t because we had to give tax cuts to the super-rich. At least Rockefeller used to hand out dimes!

            The only “benefit” defined at the inception of the American experiment is our right to get off our ass-ets and create our own destiny- or not…

            America is for those with brains, guts, and initiative, who are willing to personally do whatever it takes to win in their own personal game of life. Expecting someone else to pay your share is the height of presumption and arrogance. Helen Keller managed to earn a decent living for herself- all the slackers and “victims” need to take a good look in the mirror, get the hell over themselves, and go to work already and buy a life. Either that or just admit they are lazy, and resign themselves to living with the fruits of laziness. That is also a choice available here, and one that many are currently making- at least they can be honest about it without presuming that I or anyone else deserve to pay their freight…

          • Jeff

            Good for you, Paul Ryan, and Ayn Rand. If only the Republicans could be so honest about their beliefs, they’d regularly garner about 10% of the vote.

        • George E

          Macgyver,

          The reason we object to increasing tax rates are 1) they are a disincentive to investing and working, and 2) there is no guarantee that any additional revenue received from these rate increases will actually go toward paying down the debt. The money will be wasted like much of it already is. Since our politicians have participated in various wasteful spending programs in the past, we have to resort to seemingly drastic measures to keep them from wasting more of our money. If they would get busy cleaning up all of the programs they have already approved and balance the budget, then we’d be happy to contribute to debt reduction, but not new spending programs.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… There are no guarantees in anything. Just like there are no guarantees Trickle Down will work because in so many cases it has proved not to. It can work but the working of it assumes the execs will allow enough enough to trickle for it to do any good. Way to many execs use the tax cuts or any TD type gift to them as savings.

            Also George, for now, I am more for the returning of the tax bases to where they were before GW Bush gave the supposedly temporary tax breaks, and not really raise them. The big corporate execs, and who knows who else, haven’t use those tax breaks to create the jobs in the numbers we need so how has the BUSH tax cuts helps us? See, tax lowering doesn’t necessarily mean “incentives to invest and working” because once the Execs receive their presents from the government it is up to them as to what to with with those gifts.

            An now I feel, but do not really know, many Big Corporate Republican Execs are waiting until there is a GOPer in the Oval Office before they increase their investment strategies, including job creations, so their GOP can say.. “See, it takes a Republican in the Oval Office to create jobs”. If I am right, and I believe I am, what does that say about the GOP and the Republican Execs when it comes to helping the country?

            I too want them in Government to clean up all unnecessary programs and fix the budget but as large as it all is it needs time to figure out which programs to limit that will not hurt people and then for the plans to work. It really does take a few years after an admin leaving office, depending on the size of the effects, for their stuff to take affect. Obama had a lot to get past since he took office, all presidents do. We are all bushed by the last admin, LOL…

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            You’re raised several points, but I’d like to respond to a couple. First, going back to the Clinton tax rates is a tax “increase” for just about everyone regardless whether you think it is fair or not, and it is almost inconceivable to me for any one educated in economics to really think a tax rate increase will be good for the economy. What the federal government really needs to do is downsize, simplify, modernize, and clean up their act like private companies have had to do for the past 40 years. If they quite trying to do everything for everyone, that’d be a good start.

            Secondly, I have never known a corporate executive, and I’ve known many, to say they wanted to delay an investment program until their political party of choice was elected. That’s just insane. If they really thought that way, they wouldn’t be in business very long. In the end, business executives are more loyal to their customers, profits, and shareholders, and sometimes employees, than they are to any political party. They eat, sleep, drink, play, etc. focused on how they can beat their competition and succeed in the market. They do that even when they’re not in the office. Don’t let you own political interests get confused with the way businesses operate. They are not political entities, unless they get caught up in crony capitalistic activities with our politicians, something you nor I approve of.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Ok, I took only the required amount of economic classes in college and grad school so I am not any kind of expert. Saying that I do not see how raising taxes will do any one any good for the economy except to spend. Taxes are for spending. You know I am not for unwarranted tax raises so I agree with you on that.

            We can look at taxes a raises in our salaries. If we get a decent raise we can spend more, pay off on what we already committed to or get that new 79 inch TV we might want. But government does some dumb spending as many of us do (not the 79 inch TV if we can afford it, lol).

            We do need to shrink the Federal government but I addressed that with you in a previous post, just no shrinking of needed programs. We keep hearing that Government cannot be run as a corporation and that is one reasons we can’t compare unions in the Government to the ones in the private sector. Unions are a huge expense to all so I am not sure and they do both help and hurt in varying degrees but I do not want to go further on unions in this, I was just using them to make a point. Some say we need to run the government as a big business but I do not want Romney’s kind of Bain kind-of businessman because we middle classers are not the huge investors he has shown to love and support.

            You say “Secondly, I have never known a corporate executive, and I’ve known many, to say they wanted to delay an investment program until their political party of choice was elected. That’s just insane”.

            Is it insane or just good business for them for now – the wait? I keep reading and seeing that there are many big corporations who are doing well, in the black, so where are the job? Since much of the main functions of an exec to to save money, keep expenses down, I have seen many corporate policies as a “do more with less” effort. I know at Walmart that is a literal. For example, for a long time Walmart staffed up on temp seasonal associates starting before September until after Christmas and they did that for years.

            Around 4 or 5 years ago Walmart Execs decided they would not do that temp seasonal thing and told the stores to “do more with less”. The store associates hated it, many customers hated it but the savings on payroll was worth it to Walmart. Walmart had a great last quarter and year that year and they do ok since although not as well. I would guess many other corporations did and do the same “do more with less” thing these days too. So many big corporate execs are Republican and they do not want Obama to win. Hiring in the numbers we need is not being done and the execs know that will support GOP efforts. The GOP will wash the hands of the Execs and the Execs will wash GOP hands.

            They would be in business long if they do that “less” thing and as long as they build the bottom line, keep expenses down, keep as much money at the top as possible and protect the corporate reputation at all costs. If the Board of Directors and the top shareholders are happy the execs will have much better chances to get their hugely lucrative contract renewals so where are the execs real agendas anyway? Not to create jobs if they do no have to. So how would it hurt (them) to wait and hope their party gets their candidate into the Oval Office so they can say “See, it takes a Republican in office to create Jobs”. I like what is in quotes so I use it often but I do not like what it implies.

            If you really think “In the end, business executives are more loyal to their customers”, or their hourly and maybe even the managers, then you do not really know Execs, or the royalty of the corporations, very well. For so many of them their efforts are pretty much for their contract renewals. I was a business analyst at the Walmart Home office and I got to know some of them and to better understand the Execs of the previous companies I worked for. Many really are politicians of sorts with person agendas for their futures.

        • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

          Re: Pledge not to raise taxes, even if it means cutting “needed programs.”

          “The government that would take 10% would be exceedingly oppressive.”
          -Benjamin Franklin.

          The Boston Tea Party was over a 2% tax, folks. 10% is all God asks; surely our government can function on less, given that we are presumed to be “self governed”, rather than dependent on the state to care for us. As for me, the more of *my* money I keep, the better I can take care of my own affairs…

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme… The real (Boston) Tea party was to object to the not sending the collected tax to England but instead it went to the pockets of big corporate people and the paid off politicians here. They sort of agree to being taxed for tea but it should be done righteously.

            If you really believe our Government can function on a budget that can “fit in a bath tub, as Norquist so vehemently is working toward as he controls his 270 plus GOP pledge signers, then you are delusional. If you really believe what you are saying then so many Americans, millions more than today perhaps, will become homeless and starve because of what you believe. There are so many retired and disabled people who can not care for themselves with out help. And since Social Security is already earned and their property the recipients deserve it by morality and law. If you are not delusional maybe you are only apathetic toward other people as the these pledges show those signors are.

            You mentioned God “10% is all God asks”. Are you trying to compare the US Government, in its abilities, to God in how you seem to be saying “If God can do “it” on 10% so can our Government”? I also remember reading in the Christan bibles that their chosen Messiah was asking that we help those less fortunate then ourselves. God also speaks of compassion. Where is there any in you?

            You end your post with “As for me, the more of *my* money I keep, the better I can take care of my own affairs…”. Well, me too and I do but I also care about my fellow Americans who cannot without help. In a country with the growing population we have, and with inflation too, there is no way a budget that can fit in a bath tub will do more then totally destroy us.

            Also, the budget Norquist speaks of, bring it back to that of the early 20th century, (back then) never took into consideration the mounting inflation we have had since WW2 – how could they? If you do not know what I am talking about then you do not know the the very dangerous PLEDGE you seem to be defending. Support in ignorance is also dangerous. I bet even Benjamin Franklin might adjust that quote of his you use if he knew what is going on today. They, Ben and many of the founding Fathers, wer so fearful of the corporations and the banks. Do you think they would align themselves with the current day TP owned GOP?

            By the way sootsme, as for the post of mine you were responding to. I was talking about allowing reality and circumstances of the time to decide if we need to raise taxes, not just do it for the fun of it. The Pledge will not allow, at all costs, for “reality and circumstances”, EVER. I am afraid that “at all costs” by the TP/GOP will totally destroy the middle class and then what we will be left with we do not want to imagine.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            >” If you really believe what you are saying then so many Americans, millions more than today perhaps, will become homeless and starve because of what you believe.”

            No, more will become homeless and starve if they decide not to work.

            >”And since Social Security is already earned and their property the recipients deserve it by morality and law.”

            Agreed, although it was still a bed deal from the start, and an educated and aware citizenry would not have bought it. Chile has a privatized retirement system much like what Bush proposed here, that actually enables their citizens to retire in comfort, based on private investment in free enterprise, rather than participation in a Ponzi scheme. Hopefully we will learn from our experience and our descendants will manage their finances so that they won’t need such “assistance”.

            >”Are you trying to compare the US Government, in its abilities, to God in how you seem to be saying “If God can do “it” on 10% so can our Government?”

            Our government was set up to handle the Postal Service, national defense, coining “real” money, and not much else. If 10% wasn’t enough, I guess that would have been time to privatize the Postal Service…

            >”Where is there any (compassion) in you? You end your post with “As for me, the more of *my* money I keep, the better I can take care of my own affairs…”

            My compassion is expressed, privately, by me, using my own money, without the “assistance” or added overhead of any fat, overpaid middlemen. Compassion is the role of individuals, churches, families, private charities, basically *anybody* other than government. Individuals and private organizations are very likely to be better able to discern who they should help, based on merit, more effectively than any bureaucracy who must necessarily serve their own needs as well as those they are meant to help- “No man can serve two masters.”

            >”Also, the budget Norquist speaks of, bring it back to that of the early 20th century, (back then) never took into consideration the mounting inflation we have had since WW2 – how could they? If you do not know what I am talking about then you do not know the the very dangerous PLEDGE you seem to be defending. Support in ignorance is also dangerous. I bet even Benjamin Franklin might adjust that quote of his you use if he knew what is going on today. They, Ben and many of the founding Fathers, wer so fearful of the corporations and the banks.”

            All inflation is the result of diluted, fiat money, which Ben & Co. specifically prohibited in our Constitution. I don’t give a rat’s patootie about the PLEDGE. I care about getting past semantics and tomfoolery and addressing the fundamental mistaken choices we as a society have not only made, but continues to enable, to the detriment or our liberties, as well as our prosperity as a nation, not to mention the destruction of our self esteem which for many years we earned as the direct result of taking on the whole world in the marketplace and repeatedly showing them what freedom combined with hard work can do.
            As for the banks, an old (self described) “Jewish Mother” I used to work for was fond of saying “Borrowing destroys the edge of husbandry.” The banks have grown fat from folks who want stuff before they can afford to pay for it. I leave the judgement here to others, but do not feel obligated to support/enable this behavior on the part of either side of the bargain.

            >” I was talking about allowing reality and circumstances of the time to decide if we need to raise taxes, not just do it for the fun of it.”

            The reality and circumstances of our time are that many of us fit another of old Ben’s quotes: “They who would trade liberty for security deserve neither.”

            Fundamentally, you and I pretty much want the same things as most others; our differences are about how this is accomplished. I favor the smallest structure, if any, that is needed to get the job done, with a huge emphasis on individual, or at least very local, determination of how to handle things appropriately according to those closest to the situation. Central planning has a long and oft lamented history. America was founded on a perceived need for a better way, that allowed and rewarded individual work and innovation carried out in an arena ruled by merit alone. For me, this is the only game worth playing. Those who feel the need to be overseen by others, in exchange for guarantees of “benefits” should hire themselves out to those who feel those benefits should be provided, in exchange basically for the right to hold slaves. (Fine by me, so long as said providers pay the tab). I do not see the need to help pay for such a scenario. As to the “helpless”, there are many real life stories of hugely successful folks who overcame tremendous adversity and challenges of every description. The things these people have in common are commitment, passion, integrity and a whole lot of bust ass work. If Helen Keller could do it, anyone can.
            *Will* do it…or not…is another matter…

            Basically, it’s a question of basic assumptions: I assume I am best qualified to determine and provide for the needs of me and mine; others assume that someone else can and should do this.for them. Fair enough I guess, if they are willing to pay the price. I, for one, am not.

          • macgyver1948

            Sootsme… From your post to me “Where is there any (compassion) in you? You end your post with “As for me, the more of *my* money I keep, the better I can take care of my own affairs…” My compassion is expressed, privately, by me, using my own money, without the “assistance” or added overhead of any fat, overpaid middlemen. Compassion is the role of individuals, churches, families, private charities, basically *anybody* other than government”.

            If your way worked, “Compassion is the role of individuals, churches, families, private charities, basically *anybody* other than government” then why are the so many homeless people? I strongly feel if the Government does not help the homeless rolls will grow faster than we can blink. If we do away with Social Security and Medicare the homeless and starving rolls will increase. That is the goal if the pledge and its signers because if the budget falls to the levels they want there will be no funding for people. OnamaCare does not say free health care of everyone, it says affordable health care, thus its real name.

            Then you say “I don’t give a rat’s patootie about the PLEDGE. I care about getting past semantics and tomfoolery and addressing the fundamental mistaken choices we as a society have not only made, but continues to enable, to the detriment or our liberties, as well as our prosperity as a nation, not to mention the destruction of our self esteem which for many years we”. THE PLEDGE IS NOT SEMETICS, it is the designed destruction of the middle class, the elderly, the non wealthy retired, etc. Get to know what it is or remain ignorant as we continue to fall.

            I am not going into your stick with the Jewish Mother but I know, as the Founders said, the banks are nasty in their greed.

            I know Ben’s quote, I have it in my quote file “They who would trade liberty for security deserve neither”. I believe he was talking about giving up liberties such as in what GW Bush and Home Land Security and others did to limit our constitutional rights, and not the security of having food from the money the government offered through Social Security. Different issues totally. The N PLEDGE will do away with many needed issues but starving the funds that feed them, and eventually us.

            You say “I do not see the need to help pay for such a scenario. As to the “helpless”, there are many real life stories of hugely successful folks who overcame tremendous adversity and challenges of every description”. There have been those real life stories where people have picked themselves up and made it. But what is the ratio of those to the so many more who haven’t? Should we forget about them?

            I too want to go on making my own decisions. I like it that way best. I know some day I won;t be able to so what then? I have enough to keep me going for life but there are so many who do not. There are the many who worked all their lives making minimum and couldn’t afford to save or invest, I feel for them because all those hard rworking, all their lives, people will be screwed. Jobs must provide the needs of the worker and also not over burden the employer. It seems the employers have pretty much had their ways when it comes to salaries, the non-negotiating kind, and the hourly kind just get by while they are working.

            I do not know what the answer is, how to fix it that is, but there must be a balance and I am so damn tired of hearing “they should be happy with whatever job they can get at whatever pay”. So may employers have the security of knowing there are so many grunts out there to replace the ones who might give ‘us’ some lip and the ones the accounts say to get rid of. Without decent paying jobs there is no extra spending and the corporations will not invest in themselves. It has to start with decent paying jobs and that too the GOP will defend the Corporations with. If the Corporations do not start creating jobs soon, and not wait for a Republican in the White House, the Catch-22 will remain on the middle class.

            The Helen Keller story was an example of what she could do. Many people can’t do what she could do and maybe that is because they were taught to believe they couldn’t from birth. We should overcome that and teach our selves we can do it but many wont because of how they were taught. Hearing stories will only piss off a lot of people.

            “Go to school and get the best job you can” will keep many people down but the corporations will go on loving it. We need to get as much education as we can and figure out how to work for ourselves and then go do it but so many of us do not have the privileges that people like Romney has. He does not see that and that is why he cannot see us.

            You are indeed the best qualified to determine what is best for you, we all are for ourselves. With that said we have to plan it right from our childhood. If we don’t then we add to the homeless lists. There was a report that came out from the Department of Labor a number of years ago. The report indicated that its finds are going back so many decades, maybe to the early 1900s. It said that many working people are doing ok until they retire, then about 85% retire at or below the poverty level. Where was their planning and what should we do because they depended too much on their employers? Should we just forget about them? The N PLEDGE and its signers, want to.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            I think you mean well. I also think you are buying into others’ victimhood, and their abdication of their own personal responsibility regarding the safekeeping of their own well being. As Katrina demonstrated, government nannying, though well intended, just can’t cut it. A pedestrian can step into a crosswalk in front of a truck and be legally in the right, and still dead as well. Right or wrong, I would rather watch where I’m going, adjust as necessary, and live long and prosper. This is just like being at the bottom of the food chain- get used to it, or do what you must to move up in the world. Especially here in America, anyone who wants to can better their lot in life. Yes, it can be terribly hard, and can cut into “America’s Top Model” time. Oh well- you pays your money (and your time and effort) and you takes your choice. I have a high school education (folks like me made the top half of my graduating class possible) plus some community college (no degree), and I manage to earn a very comfortable living by working for myself doing honest labor that most other folks do not want to do. Anyone can figure out a way to add value and get paid for it, if only they are willing. If they are not willing, they are beyond my, your, or the government’s capacity to help. If seeing folks in tough spots bothers you, interact with them and see whether they are doing all they can, and if so, help if you can. If they are marking time until someone bails them out, point it out in a positive way, see if it makes any difference, then if it does, help as you are able. If not, they are making a choice, and it is neither our place nor our right to judge or to interfere. Also, it is not the government’s business to make me support others’ ongoing lifestyle choices. True compassion involves being real and addressing the issues at hand effectively, not stealing resources from those who have earned them and then giving them to folks who can’t be troubled get up, show up, and contribute to an orderly, productive society. If corporations’ conduct offends you, don’t buy their stuff or don’t work there. Simple. My son at 11 and 12 years old used to ride his old bike a mile and a half to town and go door to door offering to do yard work. Within a couple weeks, he was earning over $100 a day on a pretty regular basis. Most adults I have met who are on public assistance feel they are above such things. Seems to me that a few missed meals might alter that view, but that’s just me, I guess. So long as there’s free food available, I guess we’ll never know….

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme… Yep, nothing like being “dead” right…. I see both sides can easily accuse the outer of “buying into others’ victimhood, and their abdication of their own personal responsibility…“. I am not buying into much at all of what my side say but I do listen to both sides on issues and then I decide.

            You use Katrina as an example. Well, I hate defending Government but the feds have to wait to be invited in during a disaster and not just assume the state or localities are in-concomitant. The Feds were ready to be there pretty quickly and they let Louisiana and other states know that.

            You say “This is just like being at the bottom of the food chain- get used to it”… Well, we all might have to get “used to it”, as you say, if things like the Norquist Pledge gets all it wants or the jobs we need are created with livable wages or inflation is not kept in check.

            Then you say “Anyone can figure out a way to add value and get paid for it, if only they are willing”. Ok, let’s talk about hourly workers, and at times salaried and even scientists as well as managers, in regard to this. How can they when most of the time no one above them wants to be bothered by them, in so many cases. We have to do that “add value” thing on our own time. I read all the time about people inventing something with company resources and they get almost nothing for it, including no recognition. I read from someone here, on this site, that, I think it was about her dad, who invented something the company got richer from and the inventor received $50 for his efforts. It is tough but you are right, we have to find a way but on our own.

            Sootsme, you say I should interact with people I see who are having problems making it. Well, I am just me and I have a limited reach but when I see people I might be able to help I do. I have tried to show them we are products of our choices and beliefs. IF we are down it is most likely because we didn’t do the right planning to help prevent it. That strongly leaves out the idiocy of the TP/GOP when they say in such broad and general terms “if you are unemployed it is your fault” How do so many who were downsized or let go because the company accounts and finance advisors told the execs to shrink their most controllable expense – PAYROLL, see that as their own fault? But the point is we have to have more than one iron in the fire and we have to plan for what is not in our control.

            We cannot depend on either our employer or the government for jobs but when we are due we should expect that which is due (us). Jobs, though, are not guaranteed because they are owned by the employer regardless of what the employer says. If they pay you it is their job for them. I used to cringe when a boss told us to “own the job or project” because I knew that was just employer propaganda used to get more and better work out of us for them. We need to do the best we can if wee take a job but we have to be realistic in our beliefs. I suppose allowing the boss to think we believe him is necessary but they expect us to believe what they tell us. All is fair in love and war and jobs agreements I suppose. If we want to keep the job for as long as you need, or until the boss no longer needs or wants us, to we better know those things.

            Supporting others, as you say, is not your responsibility, as you say, for now but what if you become needy? What if you became unemployed and ran out of savings would you want unemployment compensation to carry you over until…? I am 64 now. I remember many times during my career many people saying they hated to give up the income the government took for Social Security. I had to smile often when I heard many people say, when they became eligible for SSI, they were so glad they payed into it because they didn’t believe they could make it without what was taken from their earned payroll. Medicare is paid for by the receiptiants and not a git to them.

            You are saying “If corporations’ conduct offends you, don’t buy their stuff or don’t work there. Simple”. Realistically speaking is it really that simple? With the job market as bad as it is, and for so many, desperation being the driving force, may of the unemployed cannot choose, they have to take what is offered. Desperation is the puppet string set that guides many when they have to take a lousy low paying job or not support themselves, or their families, even very poorly if at all. It is not ‘simple’ for so many.

            As for not shopping at stores I might not like. Well, I worked for Walmart for a few years and I was in their Home Office. I know a few things from being a business analyst there. I wont get detailed now but I know what classes of products they sell I will never again purchase. I have to do what is best for me. If I shop at Walmart these days I stick to product categories I feel are retaining value and I will shop other places for the stuff I want that is negative to me at Walmart. That is my simple choice in this.

            Here is a true story. I was shopping in Best buys one day while I was still working for Walmart. I noticed the Walmart President of the International Division in their buying a large screen TV. I went up to him and asked why since he too could get the famous Walmart associate 10 % discount. He might have been a bit put off, or embarrassed, but he said it was for his family and we wanted “value”.

            I have a lot of respect for your son in his enterprising ventures. I worked at supermarkets and maintained the grounds at a tennis court club before I finished high school for years. I wanted my own money and still do.

          • sootsme

            As to taking whatever jobs are available, I would go back to doing yard work or start scrapping, or nearly anything legal before I would subscribe to the “fixed income”, hourly wage, or other victim mentality. Then, when I am too worn out to do physical stuff, I will go to designing websites, or selling something, or marketing some of my off the wall niche inventions, or again, nearly anything legal. Call me crazy, but I see opportunity everywhere I look, and if I can, so can others if they are willing…

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme.. Many people cannot create web pages and other trained and learned things until they get themselves to. Some will not try. I would to pretty much as you say but sales will make me starve because if I sense a potential customer is not into what I am selling I would move on quickly. I have been pretty lucky too in seeing opportunity all my life. Not everyone can see what is in front of them or their eyes are closed to it. I have always considered myself in being lucky…

          • sootsme

            True about training- however, ultimately we are all self employed, the owners of our own businesses, as it were. Learning is a lifelong pursuit. As Bob Dylan said,”Who is not busy being born is busy dying.” Luck is the meeting of preparation and opportunity, as in the harder we work, the luckier we get. Used to be that this was common knowledge in America. What this country needs is a good 5 cent revolu… er,…renaissance…

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme…. I believe too that we make our own luck but it doesn’t always work. In all the years I have been working for others I have seen so many very hard working loyal people be passed up for promotions and even many others down sized. But then we are back to playing the cards we were dealt – making our own luck based on how we respond to the cards. Walmart boasted they do not lay off but a few years ago they canned over 1200 Home Office Campus people. So many of them were very hard working and loyal for more than 15 years or so. There are no guarantees and it is not a smart idea to totally trust any employer unless maybe your employer is your daddy.

            What we need a huge Government, the elected and the appointed heads, Reform…

          • George E

            I’m sure Walmart didn’t want to have to lay off its employees, but things change. They can’t make people buy, or buy from them. If the business dries up, then they’ve got to do something to balance costs with income. That’s just business. Everyone needs to understand that and do what they can to plan for that sort of thing happening. It’s tough, but it’s life, just like dying. We don’t like it, and we do whatever we can to avoid it, but it’s still something we have to face. Having said that, we can do better in this country to grow the economy and create jobs. What’s going on now is not typical of what this country is capable of.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… I hate defending Walmart but I agree, I think, Walmart did not really want to fire these people. With that I want to add we have to stop considering idiotic blanket statements such as “if you are unemployed it is your fault” as those that come from several GOP members. Statements like those from the GOP are strictly in support of the Corporations and they are insulting the unemployed who were not that way because of their own doings. It is so hard to figure out what to do when you are fired and you have to support yourself and perhaps a family. So may people are within 2 or 3 pay days from homelessness. If you cannot afford to save along with paying your bills while working when you are cut off the well dries up fast.

            What can we non corporations do to help the economy? If we do not have the money, or enough, to spend how can we, as consumers, stimulate anything? It is the Corporations who create jobs, not us or Government.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Yeah, folks really shouldn’t say things like “it’s their fault” when people get laid off from their jobs. Just keep in mind that conservatives get pretty exhausted in this political environment where they are asked to pay taxes so the government can subsidize those who aren’t working, for whatever reason, and it’s the taxpayer who is called the bad guys. People can remember how it used to be when people didn’t sit around and whine about their situation. They got busy doing whatever they could to fix their situation. It’s not hard to find people now days that don’t work, and don’t seriously try to find jobs because they’re getting payments from the government. Having said that, there’s not a lot that a bunch of laid off workers can do to create equal paying jobs to the ones they had when they were laid off. That’s why the government needs to do whatever it can to stimulate the private sector so businesses will create jobs. On this point, Obama just doesn’t get it. He thinks he can get the economy growing by stimulating government spending and growth. That just won’t do it.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            Mac, (Is it all right if I call you Mac?) Being employed or unemployed is not about the GOP or corporations. Lots of folks lose or can’t find a job, but not all of them allow this to define or to defeat them. One of my teachers lost over a million dollars from his retirement fund at Enron- He went back to work teaching, and you’d better believe he now takes care of his own retirement plan. The only thing more expensive than education is ignorance. America is about folks seizing the moment and playing their hand for all it and they are worth, even if it takes more than once to get it right. Leaves very little time for whining, or figuring out how to get someone else to pay their way. Again, I’m not talking about SSI.(Which even if you do get it, is not enough for someone to live on, unless they are partial to eating pet food.) As to defunct retirement plans, I’m sure you and I would agree that whoever is in charge when this happens should have their assets and their liberty taken away and be put to work doing whatever possible to make restitution to those who have been wronged. However, the wronged parties are much like the one who walks into the street in front of a truck- they’re right, but they’re still screwed, and all that is left is to lay there and cry or to get up, get out of the street, and move on- hopefully paying much closer attention to their route henceforth… I’m sure we can find folks who fit all the labels (Dem, GOP, Lib, Conservative, Black, Jewish, Mormon, etc., etc.) in either group. As they say in sales…Some will…Some won’t…So what…Next…

          • George E

            Right on. I may hire you as my motivation coach…………..ha.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            “… I may hire you as my motivation coach…………..ha.”
            Thanks George, I’ll keep your offer in mind when I get too old to fix chimneys anymore…

          • George E

            OK. Maybe I can get you to come over and fix my chimney in the meantime…….

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            We (my son and I) are willing; are you anywhere near Salt Lake City? If so, cool. If not, I hope your chimney needs a lot of work, considering travel, etc.

          • George E

            Naw. I live in East Texas and I was just kidding. We live in a new house that hasn’t had any chimney problems………..yet. But, if I lived close to you and did have chimney problems, I’d be happy to see what you could do for me. You sound like my kind of folks. Thanks.

          • so

            If your area’s climate is anything like Dallas’, you probably don’t need to use it much. I lived there for a year, and it was way hot most of the time. Anyway, I think things are getting hotter yet, in many ways, and you and I are in two of the best places in the country to ride out the coming “stormy weather” that we’re all in for… Both of our states are pretty active in the Tenth Amendment (states’ rights) arena, 2nd Amendment friendly, a culture of innovation, relatively healthy economies, and overall a real “old school” work ethic.

          • George E

            I hope so……………

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme… Call me Mac or Steve…. I have never defined myself by the company I worked for. And when I left Walmart 3 years ago I left on my own without another job in the wings. My dad would not have been happy with that because he always said “you do not leave a job without having another one waiting because you wont be able to pay your way”. I lived by that and when I left Walmart I was ok with the things I have set up over the years. The corny expression is so true “people do not plan to fail, they fail to plan” is so true but if the employer plans to fail you, by making you unemployed you could be stuck.

            America can be about “folks” seizing the moment but so many do not and many do not because they trust and depend on an employer and not enough on themselves. The employer philosophy is that they hope we do. Don’t get me wrong. If you work for a company your second loyalty should be to your employer, not other companies, with yourself/family coming first.

            You said “Leaves very little time for whining, or figuring out how to get someone else to pay their way. Again, I’m not talking about SSI.(Which even if you do get it, is not enough for someone to live on, unless they are partial to eating pet food.)”. That might be funny, the ”pet food”, if it weren’t so true which is more reality that they cannot take even a small cut let alone missing any payments. Vouchers can not keep up with inflations which is what the Ryan plan is calling for. If he is so smart he should know that or maybe he does know that and…

            You said “As to defunct retirement plans, I’m sure you and I would agree that whoever is in charge when this happens should have their assets and their liberty taken away and be put to work doing whatever possible to make restitution to those who have been wronged.”. You bet we agree. While working at Walmart my VP brought in a guy for a talk at a meeting. He is one of the authors of a book titled “Stolen Without A Gun”. The two authors are Walter Pavlo and Neil Weinberg… I’m not remember now which of the two authors it was but one of them was recently, back before that meeting, released from prison for doing the Enron thing but at another big company – MCI WorldCom. His book and lecture tour is about the evils of cheating the employees. I spoke with him privately for a while and he would agree with us that those who do the Enron thing belong in prison. It should be required reading for all Corporate execs and Board of Directors and maybe the top shareholders. They do all come in all colors, races and religions as well as political affiliations. Greed knows none of those, it only wants their souls and the greedy are too eager to trade, LOL….

          • sootsme

            What George said. In earlier times as America was growing up, things were very stable for a long time. Now, the explosion of technology and information is blowing the former status quo all to smithereens. If you’re a scientist, this is referred to as “the Theory of Dissipative Structures”. Simply, when a structure (a company, a society, an organism, basically any structure) is formed, it takes account of all the information available to create the rules, and the model. As time goes on, new information appears- some of which fits, and some of which doesn’t, creating stress (“perturbation”) in the system. For a while, the stress is absorbed- no big deal- however, when the stress reaches a critical mass, the whole thing comes apart. Then a new system emerges that accounts for all the current information, new information appears… ad infinitum.
            Our system was created when things moved at horse and buggy speed, and the doubling rate of knowledge was measured in decades, if not centuries. Now, we are moving at nearly the speed of light, and the doubling rate of knowledge is measured in months. Bottom line, we are at the point where whether we like it or not, the game needs to be “rebooted” consistent with our current situation. The old ways just can no longer keep up with present day reality any more. No one’s fault, just the way it is… Attempting to fix today’s problems with yesterday’s tools is basically like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The point of this rant is that those who don’t keep up get run over. For whatever reasons, this idea is not widely appreciated.This translates into a lot of folks’ lives being severely disrupted, to say the least. Unfortunately, crying about how things are doesn’t change anything- The only thing that works is facing the facts and getting to work, beginning wherever we happen to find ourselves. Those who do this are fine, and those who do not fade away. This in not the fault of Bush, Obama, Republicans, Yogi Berra, or anyone else- it’s just the way it is. All that matters is what we as individuals, and as a society, choose to do about it…and truth be told, either our mainstream politicians don’t get it, or they do get it and plan to capitalize on the situation at our expense. Either way, we each have a choice to blindly buy in, or to build our new improved model using the currently available data, or not…

          • George E

            Wow! Great post. You need to open up and cut loose with your thoughts like this more often. Thanks.

          • macgyver1948

            George E and sootsme… it is a great post Sootsme. If we look back we might see that the country was doing nicely, except during the war of 1812 maybe, because we were still feeling the effects of the Founders and their warnings and the real Tea party like events as we were growing. The Founders warned us about the corruptions of the corporations and banks. Today we have huge support for banks and corporations to the tune of ignoring the Founders warnings by one of our major political parties and we are not doing as relatively well as we did back then… Is there a correlation between doing well back then and not today because of the founders warnings and not following them today? LOL…. Just a thought.

          • George E

            Yeah. I think the problem has to do with our thinking that some companies are “too big to fail” and crony capitalism when companies get too cozy with our politicians. Both of these things need to be corrected. Now, Macgyver, here’s a place where sensible regulations might make sense.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Yep, some do think they are too big to fail or too smart. I know Walmart is that way but they are so successful that fact might encourage and enable their self beliefs and self worship, LOL.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            In my humble ;-) opinion, PRECISELY!

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            Time for bed and back to real world in the morning. It’s been fun…

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            That was a long story, but I enjoyed reading it. You said a lot. I’m glad to know you’re not a college kid just coming here to raze us “old” guys………….ha. I’m 65 and have a lot in common with you. Thanks.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Oh but I am a 64 year old former college kid. Except I did not not finish college until after I separated from the Air Force. I was afraid for the next almost 2 years I would be re-enlisted until I was discharged, lol. I like it when people who do not agree with also have fun.

          • George E

            You bet.

          • George E

            Regardless where the budget is cut, even if Obama’s taxes on the “rich” are passed, the annual budget deficit will still be about $1 trillion at current levels. So, there’s got to be a lot of cutting in every department, and in most every program to get down to that level. It is doubtful that anyone is going to get off unscathed. That’s sad, but that’s the way it is, and we can thank our politicians for setting up all of the programs we have now and not managing their costs. We can also thank ourselves for thinking government benefits are “free,” and for insisting on, and allowing the government to try to solve every problem we have. Both political parties have contributed to this problem.

            Regarding protecting the middle class, probably nothing has done more damage to the middle class, or is going to do more damage to the middle class than inflation that is caused by printing money out of thin air like our government has been doing to pay the bills. That’s what has been steadily driving up the price of gold, silver, and most other commodities, including crude oil, gasoline, etc. lately.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… I so much agree that there must be budget cuts in so many areas. But I can never agree with any cuts that include causing people to starve or/and go homeless, or even to cause them to not afford their needed meds or pay utilities, which ones should I not pay this month(?). That would be evil as I see it.

            If you have any idea what it might be like to live on a very low fixed income you might understand how hurtful it would be to you to have your income cut even a little. But if you have no idea what that is like I can see how apathetic and unyielding in your concerns for other people you could be.

            I never thought government benefits are free and only an idiot would. I always write the we have to be both compassionate and prudent in how we cut those benefits. For example, Social Security and Medicare are per-paid by the receiptiants and they have to qualify before they can begin to be “receiptiants”. For so many of the precipitants it is their life line and they deserve and earned the rights to those programs. We can’t cut there but there are so many places we can.

            There is so much waste in the military and we can still remain the best in the world. We have to stop involving ourselves in immoral invasions such as the GW Bush one in Iraq. Helping our foreign (real) friends is good but there are other places we should stay out of unless we are involved in tracking down terrorists, and their helpers, who have hurt us.

            We all know both parties have contributed to the hurting of the middle class and it does no good pointing out that one party is more guilty of that than the other but I too am guilty of doing that often. We need to protect and save the middle class or there will be no more America, just a small royalty class and the huge unwashed and unconcerned-with lower class. The patterns and the flow of things are showing that direction now.

            Inflation sucks, we know that too. We have to lower the budget, again prudently, and stop printing Monopoly money. Oil/gas prices have been going up because someones with the clout wants them to. Just a guess but I think gold and silver values have gone up because of so much fiat money printing and the demand to horde those things.

          • George E

            I agree with you that cuts need to be prudent. Just keep in mind that we haven’t seen very many real cuts in government spending, only reductions in the growth of spending, so most of the claims that Republicans will devastate the country with draconian budget cuts is exaggeration beyond reason. Having said that, the time is past when we will have to make real and significant cuts in federal spending. The government can’t continue to spend $1 trillion more each year than they’re receiving in tax revenues. Simply raising taxes on the rich will only close a small part of that gap, so that’s not a total solution. If the government increases our taxes sufficiently to raise an additional $1 trillion per year, it’ll damage the economy so much that we’ll be lucky if it grows at all, and could be worse. So, deep spending cuts are in our future, and there’s no way to get around the fact that defense, social security, medicare, and Medicaid will have to be on the chopping block because of their size. That’s why I’m so fervent in my call to cut all the waste, fraud, and abuse we can, as well as anything else that’s not necessary for our government to function adequately. Time is short and the problem is dire and getting worse by the day, so we must take action now. If we can get the economy growing on its own without significant government infusion, the additional revenues collected from that will reduce the pain somewhat. That’s why I think we need to do the common sense things that have a good chance of working, not experimenting with things that are inefficient or have a good chance of not working well.

            The price of oil over the past 30 years has been correlated pretty well with the value of the USD, which has gone down with the supply of money that the government has printed. The supply of money has been driven by the cash requirements of the federal government required to close the gap between expenditures and tax receipts. In other words, if the government wasn’t spending more money than it receives in tax receipts, there wouldn’t be nearly as much need to print additional money, in which case the value of the USD would increase or remain much more stable at a minimum. The price of gasoline varies with supply (price of crude oil, available refining capacity, blends of gasoline required by the EPA, inventory levels, etc.) and demand (volume that consumers buy).

          • sootsme

            Macgyver, I agree with a lot of what you say, however I need to challenge some of your assumptions.

            As I have contended before, homelessness and starvation are not caused by lack of tax funded “benefits” (not talking about SSI here). There are folks the world around who get on quite well with no gov’t help. Interestingly, they work, and they are part of a tribal/church/family support structure similar to what we used to have here in the USA.

            “Fixed income” seems to me to mean the exact opposite- usually this refers to an income that NEEDS TO BE FIXED. ie, it needs to go up. The other question is:”Who fixed it?”

            As to our foreign escapades, you are correct, and yet these are merely a facet of a systemic problem which I would characterize as the innate desire of any organization to grow and to extend their influence; this is OK for a business or a charity that truly adds value, (and with whom individuals may choose to participate or not) but not for a government, as their only way to expand their “market share”, so to speak, is to further encroach into the affairs of their Citizens.

            Absolutely both parties are to blame, although you and I and each of us are ultimately responsible, given that as a culture we have been ignoring (I believe it was) Jefferson’s warning that “The price of Liberty is Eternal vigilance.”

            As to the protection and preservation of the middle class, our government is absolutely charged and obligated with this. The only way government can actually meet this duty is to get the heck out of the way. When I was a kid in the ’50s and ’60s, if you asked someone how they would characterize their relationship with the government, they would probably stop and consider for a moment, then say something like: “Well, I think I saw my mailman the other day.” Presently, the same question is likely to initiate a story of bureaucratic hassles, or at least a snort of derision. I submit that the plight of our middle class closely parallels this example. Also, said beleaguered middle class is who is mostly paying for all those benefits.

            Monopoly money absolutely has to go, and it will very soon. The question is, who is going to call the shots. Either we suck it up and knock it off, or the rest of the world is going to dump the US Dollar as the reserve currency, at which point- GAME OVER, so far as life as we have known it in the USA is concerned. Your points about oil/gas/gold/silver/(insert your favorite commodity here) prices are actually direct examples of the workings of fiat money. (Petroleum outfits make about 8% profit- not absurdly high compared to, say high tech, or pharmaceuticals.) This in addition to the absurdity of the US paying interest to a private business (the Fed) for the privilege of using our own money. If I were a bigger a**hole, I would definitely have gone into banking… As to hoarding, smart folks will do just that, hopefully of items with high utility, long shelf life, and liquidity. (Ammo comes to mind, as it can: help feed one’s family, be traded for other needed items, and be used to practice “social outreach” should the need arise.)

            Finally, “Macgyver” is a very timely handle for our present circumstances…

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme… I too agree with a lot of what you are saying. I was talking about those who can not work or who have retired and are dependent on SSI..

            Fixed income is fixed to a set amount. From what I am told normally from 62 to 65 a person receives a partial income monthly, I have heard it is less than $1000/mo. At 65 it goes to full benefit at around $1250. When I first heard this I wondered if the partial 62 to 65 yo payment, less than $1000/mo, was so they would be better adjusted for when they turn 65 and receive the full allotment. I am not sure but to try to get along on those levels sounds very difficult to me and to lower them would be stressful (I am being kind). They truly do live form “payday to payday”. The amounts are tough for a 30 day period and people tend to live by the week in their spending, except for bill paying. Also the policy is, I am told, they get payed “once in ‘a’ month” and that can mean on the first day of this month and not again for 58 days or so days later. The policy is not “once a month” but that applies too. If the allotments are tough to live on for 30 days think about the policy as it is stated or if the amount is cut.

            You say “As to our foreign escapades, you are correct, and yet these are merely a facet of a systemic problem which I would characterize as the innate desire of any organization to grow and to extend their influence”. I agree that this is a natural biological desire to grow and expand, the military is no different. We can see this inb government departments, they “show” they need more personal to get the job done but they tend to want more as time goes by. More influence seems to be a pattern that should be controlled but there too with the needs of whom they serve in mind.
            “Jefferson’s warning that “The price of Liberty is Eternal vigilance.” It makes sense and we need to maintain that vigilance because we seem to be losing it as we allow government to take it from us without resistance. Something else we should be diligent about in reminding the government – “The Constituti­on is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government – lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.­”- Patrick Henry”. We so need to balance this with the people needs of their “current” times.

            Things have changed much since the 50s and the 60s, I remember both those decades well, but one of those things should never be how our Constitution serves us. There is that “ vigilance” thing again,, :-).

            I so hope “monopoly money” takes a hike soon. Fiat money has let down many civilizations in our human history. But how? Gold and silver seem to be making a come back and when it all clears the ones with the most Gold will rule. China seems to be the biggest worldly buyer of gold and that bothers me.

            To a great extent “oil/gas/gold/silver/(insert your favorite commodity here) are controlled by market demands but there are wealthy market brokers with influence. It’s kind of like how the price of diamonds is controlled by, mostly, brokers in England. There is a whole lot more diamonds around to fit the values (prices) we have.

            The Fed is a strange bird. It is a banks bank in that it stores the banking/credit industry’s regulations. It controls the size of money value and circulation but it does a lot more. My first job right out of college was as a programmer analyst for the FED in NY. The non-sense I could tell you about. The logic they use to defend their actions, just to us employees, would curl the hair on all the heads of my logic professors in college.

            LOL. Macgyver is still one of my most favorite TV characters and I have used that member name since the old AOL chat room and email days in the mid 80s. I have another one I have used since then too but I had 7 AOL accounts. AOL is gone for me because I was hacked by someone who would send out nasty product email as that account to my lists and AOL could do nothing to stop it, they cannot trace them. My two state senators were among the recipients of those ads from “me” as well as so many others, LOL.

          • sootsme

            Bottom line: keep your thinking cap on, and keep stirring the pot. I will do the same.

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme… You got it and my thinking cap is on and we never have to agree. :-).

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      1948: I thought I explained it to you already. Bush Sr. did not say “Read my lips. No new taxes.” He said “Read my lips. No nude Texans”. Some people listened, and some didn’t. As a result, there are still many nude Texans today.

      • George E

        Now that’s humor. Ha.

      • Cindy

        LMAO!!! AWESOME HUMOR!

        • macgyver1948

          LMAO!!! too. I wouldn’t want to see that, LOL…. I misunderstood G Bush Sr. :-)

  • Randy N

    I’m sorry, (offensive comment removed)!! You preach conservative…but on the side of your artical is a smear addvertisement for a LIBERAL….Shelly Berkley….A wanna-be Queen Pallosie. She is as Socialistic as Obummer, Pallosi, Boxer, Feinstein, And Ried.The last thing WE need is another IDIOT like her on Capitol hill. If the money for an add. is so important that you will lay down your principals YOU ARE FULL OF IT !!!!

  • Jeremy Leochner

    Obama is not a threat to America or to capitalism. The choice between Obama and Romney is a choice between the precise level of government regulation. It is not between socialism and capitlism. Its between capitilism and capitlism. Its just one side has more regulations then the other.

    • macgyver1948

      Jeremy Leochner … you have that right…. We are going to be choosing between two versions of capitalism, one primarily for the very wealthy and corporations and one we hope is for all of us. The problem is how one side defines the other side during any given campaign. We have to choose which form of capitalism will work better for us personally and for the country – “how will this side help me more than the other side?”. The rest is pure advertising in that “buy our product and don’t even look at our competitor because their product is no good for you”. All this name calling “he is a commie/fascist/Nazi” is so much BS.

      • George E

        Macgyver,

        You know what they say. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck………. If Obama isn’t a socialist (now) or communist, he sure has associated with a lot of them over the years.

        • macgyver1948

          George E… Oh, guilt by association, huh? Well what has happened to innocent until proven guilty? Are we really as those we may some time associate with? I do not see any commie or to far in one direction or the other socialist in Obama. Open your dictionary and look up the definition of socialism and you might see the US has been in the middle since we are created as a nation. Commies are so far left and Fascist/Nazi are very far right.

          • Jeff

            The Republican definition of a socialist: anyone to his left on any issue.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            Help me out. How do you distinguish between liberals, socialists, communists, fascists, and other left-wing groups? Further, can you tell me anything the Democratic Socialist Party wants or stands for that the Democratic Party doesn’t agree with? How does the Democratic Party distinguish themselves from established socialist political parties? Maybe you can convince me that there are distinct and understandable differences. Right now, I don’t see it.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            I would try to agree with you regarding Obama’s associations if it weren’t for his policies. Many of the things he has done and is doing just confirm to us that he is either a socialist, communist, or something similar. I’ll try to be fair, but that’s the way it looks to us.

            I don’t believe Fascist/Nazis were really a far right organization. I believe they were another leftist group that was in competition with the Communist Party. “Experts” characterized the Nazis as right-wing to make a distinction between their brand of socialism and that of the Communists. The right-wing folks and organizations I’m aware of want small government that doesn’t exercise their tyranny over their citizens. Left-wing organizations tend to favor large powerful government to solve problems, etc. Obviously, the Nazis weren’t for less powerful central government.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… YOU said it right “Many of the things he has done and is doing just confirm to us that he is either a socialist, communist, or something similar”. Yep, to those who choose to see it that way it confirms it for you. Those of us no on the Right do not see it that way and we both have the right to see it as it feels to us. We can be confused by this fact all we want, we seeing things so differently, but it is the ways it is and we should respect each others right to our views. I see so much of the “proof” coming from the Right as contrived and so out-of-context(ly) edited and you do not for you to see Obama as the commie Nazi as you do.

            By the way, history shows the Fascists and Nazis as far right, commies are far left. I have seen the Tea Party and far right conservatives try to change that in the last few years but I will stay with history.

            Start with this and then do your own research http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-communism-and-nazism/. See what history really says wherever you search but try to take history before and for several years after WW2 as well.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            I know what we’ve all been taught that Nazism was a far-right wing organization, and I accepted it as well until I did some critical thinking on my own. If you define left-wing ideologies as those depending on large powerful governments and right-wing as those depending on small, less obtrusive government, then you can see that Communism and Nazism are both left-wing organizations. Slice and dice it anyway you like, but that’s pretty much the way we see it on the right. We don’t want any connection between what we stand for and what the Nazis did or stood for. We had nothing to do with them, nor did anyone on the right endorse anything the Nazis did, as far as I’m aware. Don’t try to hang that despicable group around our necks. We may be far from perfect, but we don’t deserve that unjust “honor.”

            Look, I’d be happy to refer to our President as a liberal, or even progressive (which to me is just another way of saying socialist) if I could see a difference between what he is doing and wants to do and what those of declared socialist and communist parties seek to do. If you can define the difference so that I understand it, I’ll be happy to capitulate on this point. I get no pleasure calling our President something like that, but it’s just difficult for many of us to see any difference. Help us out.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            …” Oh, guilt by association, huh? Well what has happened to innocent until proven guilty?”

            Um, Socialist= more government. Conservative= less government.

            The “proof” is a matter of public record- Duh!

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme…. DUH,,, LOL….

    • MarathonMan

      Jeramy:
      You have got to be kidding. If you haven’t read the above commentary by Mr. Root you had better do it. His references to Obamas cabal (he names then all) are all avowed self proclaimed communists; Obama is not a capitalist don’t you get that?
      You are either to young, naive or just plain ignorant to make such a statement.

      Obama’s Arab Spring and support of the Muslim brotherhood has resulted the latest attacks against the US embassies and you say Obama is not a threat to America.
      Obama has lit the fuse to the middle east powder keg. In the bargain, gas went up to $5.27 per gal from $4.39 overnight. ( these are the approximate price range from three stations in my area)

      Hillary Clinton was on the news tonight condemning a video said to be offensive to muslims and believing it was the video that set thing off. Those idiots over there never saw the video. And here is the White House and Hillary on the apology tour all over again.
      At least Romney stood up for America way before this muslim sympathizer president did.

      IT was the anniversary of 911 and that was the reason for these were staged attacks, Hillary is being played for a fool and so are you.
      ………………….. Welcome back to the Jimmy Carter era !

      Mr. Root is correct, Barry Soetorro (AKA: BOB) is orchestrating the destruction of America and you are totally blind to the implications of a second BOB term in the White House.

      • Jeff

        If you read Root’s nonsense and believe any of it, you are a MORON.

    • George E

      Jeremy,

      Your analysis is probably not too far off. However, the margins can still make big differences in our economy and lives. Energy policy comes to mind. Obama has done a lot to retard exploration, production and use of fossil fuels in this country. If he hadn’t done that, many thousands of jobs would have been created. That is, if the public sector had done what it could to stimulate these industries like has been done in the private sector, many more people would be working today paying lots more taxes.

    • SJJolly

      Jeremy Leochner: If you think regulated capitalism is bad, just wait until the regulation-free capitalism that a Tea Party controlled Congress and White House would release hits the street!
      Allowing only the free market to regulate business: Meaning, many more Enrons getting creative with the accounting, many more Countrywides labling garbage bonds as investment grade, until the fraud just can’t be hidden anymore and the companiy collapses. Corporations buying up competitors endlessly, until we have bloated monsters that collapse of their own weight — onto the rest of us. Stock markets so rife with fraud and insider trading that the little investor would have more chance of success at a Vegas casino. Banks playing “casino capitalism” with depositor’s money, with management and stockholders spliting the gains, depositors spliting the losses. Industries freely using the public lands, waters, and air as dumps for their wastes — if the public objects, the management threatens to move the jobs elsewhere. No unions to stick up for worker’s interests and welfare, against big-money corporation bosses. Business getting government protections and services, but paying no taxes — tax paying being reserved for the “little people.”

      • George E

        Jolly,

        The Tea Party is not for NO regulations and NO taxes. They want less taxes and less regulation. I think anarchists might agree with the idea of no taxes and no regulation, but so far as I can tell there are no anarchists on this board. We know we have to pay some taxes to have a functioning government, but we don’t want to fund a super large, inefficient, tyrannical, bloated government. That’s what we have today, and it really needs to be downsized to get back to something more efficient and optimal. Same for regulations, but that’s not to say we don’t need some new regulations, just less regulation overall to get to optimum which benefits our economy and society most.

        • sootsme

          Actually, as free, Sovereign Individuals, we are beyond anarchists- answerable only to God and to one another- not to any “state”. This is the foundation of one’s home being their castle, as in “I am a King.” This was the point of the entire American Revolution- each Citizen enjoys the benefits and the responsibilities of SELF RULE, with no person or state above them. Notice that I included “responsibilities” right along with “benefits”. In short, this basically means following the Golden Rule (treat others as you wish to be treated). Not hard, just takes all you’ve got. I don’t know of a better deal anywhere…

      • Jeff

        Absolutely correct. I expect that soon Romney will start talking about the 3 years he spent stranded on a desert island with the Skipper and the Professor and how he convinced them all to become Republicans.

    • Jeff

      You know what they did in Boehner’s bar to guys who came in speaking sense in the face of nonsense, don’t you? They threw him out! The wingnuts here will reject what you say because they just know Obama is [something they don't like].

      • George E

        Jeff,

        We’ve seen enough of Obama over the past 3.5 years to know that we don’t agree with his policies. Listening to him give us another nice speech won’t change that. If he was going to make a change that really mattered to us, he should have done it at least a couple years ago. Too late now.

        • Jeff

          I think he’ll have another 4 years during which time you can blame him for all the things Mitch McConnell fillibusters.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            Obama hasn’t been all that successful in getting the support of moderate Democrats in Congress, so he surely isn’t going to get a lot of support from Republicans for his policies. The American people voted Republicans in control of the House of Representatives because they have grave concerns about Obama’s policies, and they expect the Republicans to guide our government toward more conservative/moderate policies. Obama has not been willing to negotiate with Republicans to accomplish this, so little has gotten done. Instead of negotiating with Congress like Bill Clinton did, Obama has spent untold numbers of days out campaigning trying to convince the American people that Republicans are evil and he is good so they’ll support his policies. That hasn’t happened, and probably won’t. America doesn’t dislike Obama, but they think his policies are too far left.

          • Jeff

            They voted Tea Party in 2010 because they were fed a bunch of lies about the Healthcare Bill. Republicans almost had to pick up seats in 2010 because incumbent presidents almost always lose seats in the first mid-term and because the Democrats won seats in 2008 they knew would be difficult to defend. In 2010, the Republicans won seats they’ll have trouble defending so I expect there will Democratic gains in 2012. Enough to retake the majority? We’ll see. Obama being on the ballot should help the cause.

          • George E

            As we’ve all agreed, this election will determine which direction the majority of American people want to take our country. Obama has a likable persona but his policies are too far left, so this creates a conflict in many people’s minds. If he had done what Clinton did; ie, negotiate with Republicans in Congress, and moderate his policies, he’d no doubt win in a landslide, but he didn’t, so he’ll have to face the music. Even if he does get re-elected, which is in serious doubt right now, he’ll probably still have to contend with a Republican Congress. I’ve heard his plan is to go around Congress with numerous executive orders to do what he wants to do. He may win that “battle”, but I feel pretty sure he will lose that “war” because this is not going to be acceptable to the American people. Also, if he does that and things get really bad during his second term, he won’t have anyone to blame, and that’ll become very apparent to the public. At that point, the Democratic Party can probably say goodbye to winning the Presidency again for a long time. I don’t believe we are going to look back on this administration with a lot of admiration in years to come.

          • Jeff

            To some degree, it’s about public relations and convincing voters the other side is being obstinate and unreasonable. That’s what Clinton was able to do to the Gingrich Congress. The Republican bills Clinton signed, well, I’m not so sure they were so great. NAFTA, welfare reform, and the repeal of Glass-Steagall. If we’re going to have a Republican Congress, we’d better have a Democrat in the White House to keep them from handing the entire country to the Koch Brothers.

          • George E

            Divided government works well when the two sides are willing to work together on compromise legislation. That way, neither party can take us to the extreme. When they don’t work together, then nothing gets done and all we see and hear is bickering. Ironically, compromising gets each party in trouble with their base, and that makes the process difficult for the truly devout.

            Don’t worry about the Koch brothers. They just balance out some of the influence George Soros has on the Left.

          • Jeff

            The difference is George Soros is not seeking to enhance his fortune by supporting whatever initiatives you think are ruining the country (gay marriage, etc.). The Koch Brothers have an agenda directly tied to their business interests. That’s why they fund phony studies designed to minimize global warming and constantly villify the EPA. You think they believe that nonsense? Of course not, but it makes them money.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I can’t see that the Koch Brothers are doing anything illegal or anything left-wing funding groups don’t do. I do understand that they are a major pain in the left-wing’s posterior because they fund causes that take issue with every major issue the left-wing is pushing. It looks to me like the Koch brothers are helping to further debate and balance in the dialogue which we might not get if they weren’t willing to make significant donations like they are. God bless the Koch brothers. I’m thankful that the right-wing has some folks like the Koch’s who feel strongly enough about our causes to fund them.

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. Once again I will ask that you do your own research. You say nice things about the Koch brothers but do you know them as they have been reported and their family history? Do not go by a multi-billionaire’s own press about themselves and their “good” works. And they are smart so they know how to work America legally.

            I could give you my 4 page notes on them with links that might turn you against them but I wont post it for you unless you ask. Do what research you want but to support them without knowing them could be very discouraging if you disagree with what there is about them.

            Their dad’s name is Fred and he is the their mentor. Of course press from their teams will show them in good light. You should read what has been published about them since the 1950′s and their family goes back further to Germany… Question, just one for now. Are you for or against Civil Rights?

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Yes, I support civil rights as I understand the term. In the broadest sense, I believe all men (and women) are children of God and are created equal. I believe our natural rights come from God not government, and government has no right to deny us our natural rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Narrowing it down a bit, I believe no one should be discriminated against in civil society based on race, creed, color, or gender. Was there something more specific that you wanted to know about civil rights?

            I’ll do more research into the Koch brothers, but the little I’ve done so far wouldn’t concern me unless I favored an opposite view on a number of political issues. I’ll ask you one now. Have you done any research into George Soros’ political/economic activities? I’ve heard that he has tried to topple countries by manipulating their financial markets which does concern me.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… I would add to your list of “Narrowing it down a bit, I believe no one should be discriminated against in civil society based on race, creed, color, or gender” religion of any kind and they all are equal. I agree so totally. And there cannot be a “so totally” enough in that.

            Nothing more specific for now until you say more and do more research on the Koch Family. I mentioned Civil Rights for a reason in reference to them. As I said I would give you my 4 page notes on them if you want it but I do not want to until you do the research yourself, I do not want to influence your research. It isn’t just their political beliefs that concern me. I also hope you see what Norquist says about his PLEDGE and what he expects from his current over 270 congressional signers as in total obedience.

            George Soros is some what of a concern too but not nearly as much as The Koch Klan for me. There are things in Soros’ past that I would take exception to. That control of countries does cause me to wonder about him but I do not blame it on his wealth, because I see nothing wrong with great wealth, but more so to his desire to control. You can’t do that without great wealth but it goes to a person’s desires in how they use it. I do not think he can be that way here so much as he was with other countries. The difference for me with Soros and the Koch Klan is how they are trying to manipulate with other extremely wealthy pals as a group. Citizens United, for example, got the Supreme Court to betray us with their anonymity decision in donations. We just do not know who is trying to buy the “loyalty” of our “representatives with that decision.

            The Koch dad and his friends tried it with the John Birch Society and now the Tea Party, an off shoot of it and more the brothers now, is too. I do not have a problem with the Tea Party followers so much but I do with the power of it at the top. I cannot see the Tea Party as the functioning action groups as I believe their followers have been led to believe. The JBS put loads of their money and effort in fighting against Civil Rights in the 1960s and there is more but just lets say the Koch Brothers are chips off the old block.

            Oh, I could have said about Soros and Obama as a usual political supporter relationship but I didn’t want to use that as an excuse for Obama. They all do it but I would hope there would be more discretion. As I said with Soros I do not see him as bad as the Koch’s but that is only in degrees.

    • George E

      I’ve been thinking about the question “is Obama a socialist?” this morning, and followed up with some research. Here are some articles I found that help me put this question in perspective. Maybe they’ll be of value to you as well.

      Liberals rise to Obama’s defense when Conservatives call him a socialist, saying that he is not socialist because he has not nationalized US companies which has been the traditional definition of socialism. However, these articles go deeper into this issue and argue that he may not be a socialist by traditional definition but he does aspire to copy many of the Marxist/socialist methods that have been handed down by those ideologies.

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhendrickson/2012/07/26/president-obamas-marxist-leninist-economics-fact-and-fiction/; http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/01/22/is-president-obama-truly-a-socialist/; http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/07/socialist_communist_three_questions_for_obama.html; http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/is-obama-a-socialist-or-a-fascist/; http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/05/27/is-it-within-bounds-to-ask-is-obama-a-socialist/

      Also, as I thought, Democrats don’t mind Obama’s “socialist” tendencies nearly as much as they mind us referring to him as a socialist. They know that the term is opposed by a strong majority of Americans, and may hurt him in the election. Maybe the information in these articles will help you address this issue when you get strongly rebuffed by liberals who don’t want conservatives calling Obama a socialist.

      • Jeff

        Traditionally, the definition of “fascist” was a bit murky so that anyone seeking to grant great power to private industry was sometimes called a fascist. Mussolini, the author of “fascism” was not the theoretician Marx was. Socialism, on the other hand, is pretty well-defined and deals with ownership of the means of production. In the ’30s, revolution was a real consideration, and many (most?) credit FDR with preventing or forestalling such a revolution here. What Marx never foresaw in the 19th Century was the ability of capitalism to transform itself and provide “the people” a certain minimum level of existence.

        And who fought and savaged FDR at every step? The same people who stood in the way of every advance in the 20th Century from food and worker safety to the 8-hour day. So, your right wing or business publications can define socialist however they want, but it may not be intellectually honest.

      • Jeff

        Is social security socialist? What about Medicare? The progressive income tax? The EPA? How about an Israeli kibbutz? Is everything people do collectively subject to the “socialist” label? Is there good socialism and bad socialism? How about the military?

        We live in a mixed economy. Some things are purely private; some are communal; and some are private with government regulation. Are you arguing that regulating the banks or insurance companies or oil companies is “socialist”? See, your definition of socialist answers the question. We know what is public, what is private, and what is regulated. An intelligent discussion would focus on a specific policy to determine to what degree government should regulate it and how. Talking about what constitutes “socialism” does nothing but scare the uninformed.

        • sootsme

          Jeff,
          I agree, and would add this: A huge part of our problems can be traced to semantics and labels. The bottom line is easily discerned by comparing where we come from with where we are now:

          “The government that would take 10% would be exceedingly oppressive.”- Ben Franklin
          Currently, we pay over 50% when all forms of tax are considered.

          Arguments that our government could never make it on 10% are absolutely correct…because, according to our Constitution and our Founders, our government has absolutely no business whatsoever being involved in any way with at least 90% of what they are currently doing. Liberty in a free Republic of Sovereign Citizens consists of taking personal responsibility as we pursue life, liberty, and happiness…ON OUR OWN…free to prosper or to fail, each according to their ability and their choices as a free people. Sadly, we may well be past the tipping point where the producers, who are paying the freight, are outvoted by the slacker majority.

          “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.”- Ben Franklin, again…

          Be a good lamb- Contest early and contest often!… otherwise, shut up, crawl back on the porch, turn on “reality” TV, and go quietly into that good night…

          • Jeff

            I doubt if Mitt Romney’s taxes, including sales taxes and property taxes on all his mansions, approach 50%.

          • George E

            Don’t forget that the dividends he received were taxed at about 35% before he received them. Then he paid another 15% income taxes on them as capital gains. Most of his income was from capital gains.

          • Jeff

            I find it hard to believe Romney would invest in any company that pays 35% in corporate taxes. Do any companies pay 35%? The effective corporate tax rate is closer to 10%, and many multi-billion dollar companies pay virtually nothing in corporate taxes.

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. Yep, money used to invest (whether it comes from earnings income, as from a job, at the higher rate or from invested income at a lower CGs tax rate) should already have been taxed and the money used to invest is not taxed again, only the earned money from it at the lower rate. We should all know that.

            Romney “says” he was not receiving a salary from Bain Capital after leaving or from his jobs while with the Olympics or as Governor of Massachusetts but he had to earn a living some how, those were several years in duration. CEOs, and other execs, depending on their contracts, are paid even while away for a long time. And Romney owns a large portion of Bain stock, as well as some ownerships in the Islands mon, so who really knows besides Romney and his accountants; oh and the IRS maybe?

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            I’m not sure where you’re going with this, but I can guess. Democrats seem pretty determined to try to paint Romney as a tax evader because he wealthy and took advantage of existing tax laws, just like, by the way, everyone else does. Again, I’ll say if you don’t like the tax laws, work with your Congressional representatives to get them changed. It should be noted that Romney paid much more in federal income tax than did Obama, Biden, or Ryan for that matter. Romney also donated more money to charity, in terms of raw dollars and percent of income than any of the others running, so it would suit me just fine if you guys would move on to another issue that is more important to us all than Romney’s tax returns. Maybe we should discuss what might be done to stimulate economic growth, how to get our federal debt under control, how to create jobs, what we need to do to address Iran’s drive to develop a nuclear weapon, how we’re going to take advantage of our natural resources and cut the cost of energy, how we can control illegal immigration, etc. Any of these would be a better use of our time than Romney’s tax returns. Or, I suppose we could spend time discussing where Obama was born, how he went to college in the US as a foreign student, how he got a fraudulent social security number, how he was raised by Communists and Islamists, and later surrounded himself with avowed Communists, Socialists, and terrorists, or the fact that Obama had no executive experience before becoming President. I know you don’t want to talk about those things, so let’s just move on to topics more befitting our time and the priorities of the country right now.

          • macgyver1948

            George… We can all guess… The ones going after Romney for his taxes, and there are many, seem to be doing so because Mitt seems to have many things to hide. It is a “can we trust this guy?” kind of thing. Personally I do not trust Romney for many reasons and none have to do with his being a Republican per se. It is also a political tactic but that is for his opposition and not us, I too see Mitt as having things to hide. He paid 14% while others had to pay on their payroll incomes. I enjoy capital gains tax levels too, but to a small extent. GW Bush lowered the Capital Gains tax rate primarily for his wealthy buddies because the more you can afford to invest the more benefit you get from the tax rate. We tiny investors are just tag alongs by osmoses in comparison.

            I would be happy to move on to another issue if Romney would show us he is not hiding something. With his loads of money off shore we would net really know how much he has earned. I cannot afford to do that so I have to show the IRS everything.

            Is Romney wealthier than the others to be able to donate so much and was much of Romney’s charitable donations primary to his church? I do not see anything wrong with that except for one or two things maybe. The Mormon Churches, in some areas, cost many millions of dollars to build and perhaps to maintain. Huge high towering steeples which can electronically open are greatly expensive. I would hope real charity would go more toward helping needy people.

            We could discuss all those thin about Obama you mention. We can see he went to and graduated from Columbia U and then went on nicely to Harvard Law School. But as for the questions you ask, he should disclose those too. He seems to be comfortable with the Hawaiian Birth Certificate he showed us. Many students try different ways to get into college. I knew so many students whose families couldn’t afford to pay for college but the scholarship and funding people told many their parents made to much money. I went to college and grad school relatively for free through Uncle Sam and after through my employer benefit programs. Was I wrong because I didn’t pay by taking advantage? Maybe he used the years he was out the the country as a kid to his advantage. I am not justifying it, just wondering, but it should all be disclosed by both sides.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            The key question about Romney’s tax returns is “did he do anything illegal?” The answer so far as we know is “no, he didn’t.” So, until the IRS tells us differently, that’s where we should leave it. Again, if you don’t like the tax code, press Congress to change it. Don’t use your dislike of the tax code to imply that Romney has done something illegal. That’s unethical, in my opinion.

            Obviously, there are things about Romney you don’t like and there are things about Obama I don’t like. Focusing our attention on those issues will not fix the major problems of our time, which are 1) weak economy, 2) weak private sector job growth and high unemployment, 3) massive government debt, 4) entitlement reform, 5) illegal immigration, 6) Iran’s drive to develop nuclear weapons, 7) energy costs and availability, 8) inflation and the declining value of the US dollar, etc. I suggest we use our energies to focus our discussions on these important issues.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… “…The key question about Romney’s tax returns is “did he do anything illegal?”. The thing is we do not really know and I do not know if the IRS can know with all his off shore monies.

            The tax code is there and should be changed to be more fair but I do not blame any who use it, , as it is at the time, for their advantage, that is legal, We can all do that within our “afford” levels but the more money we have the more we can benefit from it. It is set up that way.

            I would like the tax code re-worked and I hope enough people pressure Congress for that. I know a type of it has been suggested before but the Flat Tax is a possibility if all deductions are removed. If we use 15 %, for our example, then all pay 15% off the tome. Sam Walton’s kids pay the same percentage as the guy who earns $25,000 yearly. Off the top means that goes first and then you play with what is left. It will not happen because the wealthy will block it because they want the differences in the % and in items like The Capital Gains tax. We cannot do it alone of in few numbers because Congress will not see our low worth to hear us. I suggest a huge organization, such as AARP but for all citizens, to tell Congress how it will be.

            I do not like everything about Obama but there are things about Romney that very much scares me more. To each his own in how we view them.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            I agree with much you said. Keep in mind that most wealthy people, and many not so wealthy, have foreign bank accounts. This is not illegal, but it is difficult for the IRS to verify that American citizens are reporting all of the income made from these accounts. Therefore, the IRS assumes that a great deal of this money is not being reported. We really don’t know, and probably will never know because some countries understand that they can attract this money by refusing to give reports to our IRS. Also, keep in mind that some or all of this money would come back into this country if people felt they could get as good a deal here as they can get offshore. Our tax code has something to do with that.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Germany has ordered their banks to do audits on foreign accounts which might be hiding from their country’s tax departments and will report on it. Hopefully more countries will do the same. I also hope they report to the US before the election.

            Our tax code stimulates money movement so if it were changed to benefit all of us equally your thought of the money coming home might happen.

        • George E

          Jeff,

          Whether Obama is a socialist or not may not be as important as whether he employs socialist style techniques in governing the country. As to that question, I think he does. He seems to gravitate in almost all cases toward “big government” solutions rather than calling on the market to provide those solutions. This is really at the heart of the issue, I think. Yes, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid among many other government programs are big government (expensive) solutions for problems that might have been solved less expensively for the taxpayer, and possibly with greater quality for the user, than the government-run programs we now have. Having said that, we are where we are, so we can’t just dump these programs with one swipe of the pen. Too many people depend on them. They must be reformed over time to guide them to a more efficient, less expensive place, which may very well incorporate private sector participation. The military and national defense is a Constitutional requirement of the federal government which they have to provide. However, there are parts of that responsibility which are left to the private sector, which includes many administrative and non-combative tasks, but few of the combat missions are outsourced to private companies at this time. That may change as time goes by. Regulations are a necessary part of government. The point is, however, they should be balanced so that we get the good effects without causing too many bad effects, especially by dragging down the economy. I’m not convinced our regulators spend very much time today worrying about how regulations effect the economy, but rather how they supposedly reduce risk for whatever they have issued the regulation to control. Without doing a cost/benefit assessment, they will always err in the direction of too much control because they think that reduces risk and increases the benefit for the country.

        • macgyver1948

          Jeff and @ George E…. It may be that it is Socialist or Fascist or Nazi or a Commie if it offends someones agenda even if it isn’t those things. Obama, for example, offends the right perhaps because he is Black, that can be an individual thing but it looks like it offends some on the Right. But I believe Obama has offended most on the Right since around the time he announced his candidacy more than 6 years ago because he is not exclusively for the wealthy and the big corporations. Therefore he, to many on the Right, is a Socialist or Fascist or Nazi or a Commie because it is so easy for many to label that way.

          The EPA is a Socialistic or Fascist or Commie group because they add to the expenses of the Corporations as it attempts to protect the Environment. It doesn’t matter that the EPA is trying to protect the environment for us, just that it adds to the Corporate expenses. Negative labeling is the easy to assign when you want so much to eliminate.

          Things like Social (maybe that world cares them) Security helped, to a good degree, pull many in our country out of the Great Depression so why would that be bad? Since then it has helped keep many retired people from starving and/or becoming homeless so why is that bad? Could it be that thing about it is also costing the Corporations to make contributions to it for every employee, as well as the employee him/her self, that makes it Socialist or Fascist or Nazi or Commie? I suppose it may be more important for the Right to help the Corporations get all they want and not be concerned with all those who are being helped by Social Security.

          Let’s see what Regulations are doing, or should be doing, and let’s see what might be offending the Corporations. Regulations should be protecting the Environment, air-water-land. We must have that and I will not argue for it, to me it is common sense. If they go over board some with the regulation that should be evaluated. We also need to have employee protections in place or the corporations will dump on them badly. There is also a lot more to that, as with environmental protections, but not now.

          Now on the other hand Regulations are costing the Corporations money. Since one of the hugest agendas within any Corporation is to cut expenses as much as they can they will fight for De-Regulations and their paid for elected will support them in this. If “their paid for elected” do not support them in this they will no longer be supported come campaign time, or in any other ways. After all, an investment is an investment. It is really not so hard to understand. On one side we need Regulations and on the other side, as with any venture, big or small, there is the need to cut expenses. We need intelligent balance but we are in need for both sides. You said “An intelligent discussion would focus on a specific policy to determine to what degree government should regulate it and how”. You betcha we do.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Regarding the Right’s opposition to Obama because he is black, how do you explain all the popular black conservatives? We oppose Obama’s “big government” policies, not his race. He has a big government solution for every problem, and thousands of pages of new regulations to add to the ones we already have to live with. We don’t care what color the President is or what political party he belongs to, we oppose more big government solutions that we can’t afford. You may note that GWB had a lot of problems with the Right, especially during his second term of office, precisely because of this.

            As I mentioned to Jeff in an earlier post, regulators don’t seem to weight the cost of new regulations against the supposed benefits, so they almost always over-regulate because they are always trying to make our lives “better” through regulation. That’s nutty. If you tried to do that in business, you’d know that’s crazy. Lawyers are bad about this. When they write legal documents for companies, they almost always go overboard in trying to avoid risk, even if it causes the company to lose business and customers. “Over” regulating does nothing more than adding cost to the business process with little to no benefit. This saps wealth from the economy. If that money was available for investments, or even higher salaries and benefits for workers, it would be better spent than wasting it on useless government regulations. This is not about helping big corporations over individuals. It’s about economics and getting the most bang for our buck. So, balance in regulating is the key. We need to be careful to get “real” benefit for the regulations enacted.

          • Jeff

            No, I never noticed much daylight between “conservatives” and GWB. Maybe they said anti-Bush things in quiet rooms, but not in public. The one exception was comprehensive immigration reform. There was a little grumbling about the prescription drug thing, but it helped big pharma so all the Republicans fell in line. Bush was the conservatives’ wet dream while he was in office. Now, you guys have trouble recalling or admitting he was ever president.

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. “Macgyver, Regarding the Right’s opposition to Obama because he is black, how do you explain all the popular black conservatives”.

            I do not know, we can only guess. Is it tokenism? Is it wealthy blacks who see it “their” way fiscally? I do not know.

            You say “we do not care what color the President is” but are you speaking for yourself or all those on the Right?

            I am against wasteful parts of the Federal Government, not the needed parts. I would love to see a shrinking of the government if we do so compassionately and prudently. People must come first or we aren’t America, we aren’t any better then the types of Governments we are opposed to. We cannot get rid of the parts the money power hates just because they want to if it will hurt people. We get rid of the parts that are wasteful and those that will not hurt people if eliminated.

            I spoke to over regulation in my other post. It must be analyzed to determine if it is really is over regulating or really needed.

            You are going into, again, about if that money is available the corporations will invest it. Well, why aren’t they? Many large corporations are and have been doing well. So where are the jobs? They are saving the money GW Bush gave then and are hording the profits they make or we would have seen job growth in the numbers we need, and decently paying ones too.

            I keep reading the reason they aren’t investing is because they are concerned with Obama being in office and if he will be reelected. Create the jobs we need now, yesterday, and be concerned about the election when it comes. It feels like the many non investing corporations who can invest don’t want to until a Republican is in the White House. Why won’t they do the patriotic thing before then as we need them to?

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            It’s sad that blacks can’t be conservative and Republican without being accused of being insincere and doing something that’s not in their best interest. If you listen to them, you’ll find out that they often started out as Democrats and later found out they had more in common with conservative ideals than liberal ideals. It’s not really more complicated than that.

            Back to why companies haven’t been hiring since many have pretty strong balance sheets, I can assure you that it has nothing to do with politics. Anyone who’s in charge of running a company and puts his politics ahead of making money for his investors, won’t be in the job very long. Of course, everyone has their preferences, but good business people don’t put politics ahead of the welfare of their business. The reason businesses haven’t been creating more jobs is they haven’t had good (profitable) projects to invest in. When that changes, they’ll spend some of their money and things will get rolling again. You can be sure that raising tax rates and saddling them with additional regulations is not going to inspire many of them to invest in new projects, if you were wondering. In the margins, burdens like these may, in fact, cause some projects to be delayed or cancelled altogether.

          • Jeff

            It would appear that many large companies need fewer workers than they used to. Their profits are through the roof as the stock market is within hailing distance of its highest levels ever. This with demand still not at optimal strength. Further tax cuts will not induce these companies to hire more workers. I see little evidence for the commonly (on the right) assumed axiom of an inverse relationship between tax rates and employment or hiring. Maybe with gross disparities in tax rates (25% vs. 75%), you’d see it, but with the small numbers at issue (35% v 39%), there appears to be no statistically significant correlation. Businesses hire people when they need them and not a minute before no matter their cash position.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I certainly agree with your last statement “businesses hire people when they need them, and not a minute before…..” The question is “what will cause businesses to need more employees?” Certainly demand is the major factor, but what creates demand on a sustained basis; ie, without continual government checks being sent out to people? I think the answer is that businesses have to see profitable opportunities in developing new products that will be in demand in the market, creating new methods that reduce cost, or opening new markets. In other words, businesses need something to happen that incents them to invest in new product development or something that allows them to see new market opportunities. Government often affects this only in the margins, but spread out over a $13 trillion market, this can be enough to help start or retard markets depending on what they do. It should be obvious that raising tax rates, eliminating tax deductions, and issuing new regulations isn’t the best way of stimulating business activity, and worse, may even slow or reverse business activity depending on what specifically is done by the government.

          • Jeff

            There are policies that have been pursued since 1980 that have skewed the economy such that all the money flows to the top at the expense of the middle class. While workers get increasingly productive, their wages, in real terms, either stagnate or decrease. We’re told this is natural and the product of “market” forces. I don’t believe it. I don’t think I know enough to put my finger on the precise cause, but I think people like Paul Krugman and Robert Reich can do so far more effectively than Paul Ryan. I wish Obama took their advice more than he does.

            CEO and executive pay go through the roof while everyone else is left behind. I’m not saying the government should control CEO compensation, but shareholders should have more say in pay packages.

            We made a conscious decision to move in this direction beginning with Reagan. We can move back to a system less hostile to the middle class. Stop treating every money changer who gets rich as a “job creator” before whose feet we must bow.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I don’t share your conviction that our problems are caused by the struggle between management vs. labor or rich vs. poor. Management doesn’t hate their employees because they know they need good employees if they want to be successful. Companies are in business to make money, not to make jobs, and not to mistreat their employees. Employees are generally paid according to their market value, period. Of course, this can get skewed if unions are involved, or if the company is working on government contracts, or if there are not viable competitors to the employer company.

          • Jeff

            The problem is not evil corporate bosses. It’s a society-wide problem and needs to be dealt with as such. Part of the answer is in tax policy; some is in the rollback of unions. Everything since Reagan has been aimed at justifying and exacerbating the stratification of wages. You can call it supply and demand; I think it’s a result of deliberate policies. When CEOs made 20 or 30 times what an average worker made, we had a vibrant middle class. Now, CEOs make 200 times as much as an average worker. This did not happen by accident.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I think the real cause is globalization and the de-industrialization of America, and our apparent inability to come to grips with this issue. We are in denial and simply long for the “good old days” back in the 1950′s and 1960′s before all this started. Unfortunately, the genie is out of the bottle and we can’t put it back in. We’ll either learn to be more business friendly in this country, or we’ll just continue down the path we’ve been on; ie, changing nothing, just blaming others for our failure to fix the problem.

          • sootsme

            >” Their profits are through the roof as the stock market is within hailing distance of its highest levels ever. This with demand still not at optimal strength.”

            Um, their NUMBERS are through the roof. Their profits, as a percentage of gross, are likely about the same as usual. The NUMBERS are thanks to QE whatever number they’re calling it now. If a company or anyone else is holding cash, they’re surely going to need more of it to buy whatever they need than they did before…Speaking of “through the roof”, fuel is up 100%+ since 2008. I don’t think profits are up nearly this much…

          • Jeff

            There are economists who track this stuff. It’s readily available.

            http://www.businessinsider.com/the-private-sector-and-the-public-sector-under-obama-2012-6?op=1

          • macgyver1948

            Here’s What’s Really Happened To The Private Sector Under Obama

            Jeff… These are some of the many figures and statistics the Right doesn’t want known. The truth can hurt… Thanks for this link,

          • sootsme

            Economists be damned… My fuel costs are up over 100% since 2008. If my revenues are not also up 100% for the same volume of work, that is not an improvement. If I could bill 100% more than 2008, which I can’t, I would be about even. As it happens, I and most other businesses are not even, but somewhat behind the curve. Thank you, Federal Reserve…

          • Jeff

            That’s nuts. Gas prices dropped right at the end of the Bush Administration because the economy was in free-fall and there was little demand. Six months before that, prices were as high or higher than they are now.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Many large Corporations are getting by with fewer employees even as they prosper. The deal with many is “Do more with less” and that is so often at the existing employees expense.

            One of my favorite examples is something Walmart did a few years ago. For years they would hire temporary seasonal employees to help out during the Halloween to just past Christmas season. Well, that year they decide the stores could get along nicely with those extra seasonal workers. The existing associates and many customers were pissed but since Walmart had a stellar 4th quarter the Execs were thrilled. It didn’t cost the execs any extra money or work so who cares? They so love the savings the hiring slowed down in general, mainly replacements when someone left, maybe. The is a cool exec idea this “Do more with less” thing and I have a feeling it isn’t only Walmart… All to cut expenses and keep more money at the top. Payroll is the easiest expense to control.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… I have told you I do listen to them. There is that one idiot Black Republican, for some reason I cannot remember his name now, who has claimed there are many among the Dems in Congress who are Communists and he rants often enough to embarrass the GOP. I have listened to Cain often enough and he isn’t a decent person let alone one who should be in public office. I do not know why Blacks go over to the GOP from the Dems, maybe because they made a lot of money and it was more fitting for them there. I really cannot say because I do not know their real reasons. I would vote for Powell any time but he jumped the Bush ship for some reason and I am not so sure it was because of his wife or other family concerns. Hillary might jump ship but she could be getting ready for 2016 but even Bill doesn’t know, he says. I might vote for Bill Cosby if he ran and I knew his platforms. He could be GOP but I am not sure.

            Here you say, and I hear this so often, “The reason businesses haven’t been creating more jobs is they haven’t had good (profitable) projects to invest in. When that changes, they’ll spend some of their money and things will get rolling again”. When will that change for them? In the mean time the middle class is shrinking because there are so few jobs and the average hourly wages seem to be shrinking too.

            Trickle Down is not working because the bosses are not spending on jobs and investments in the company. Otherwise, where are the jobs? If jobs are created with decent enough wages families could spend more at the stores with confidence. Trickle Up would have a better chance of stimulating the economy but the execs are fiddling and sitting on their money while the middle class burns. When will that change and what are they waiting for? Could they be waiting for Obama to be out of office, and that could be another 4 years, and even then will the wait be until a Republican gets into office because the GOP will cater to the wealthy and the Corporations more exclusively that a Democrat? Notice that I am saying “more exclusively” because that seems to be the life of the GOP but the Dems know we need to help business too, just not more exclusively at the expense of the rest of us.

            The GW Bush Tax break, that gift to the Corporations and the wealthy, was suppose to be temporary. All I as is that they be brought back up the their rightful levels especially since the giving of the gifts is not working as incentives. Again, where are the jobs if the gifts to the wealthy are working? Also again, I have been saying regulation should be evaluated and adjusted to what is needed, not just bring them on for the fun of it.

            If they are waiting for what I am asking about then I see many of the Execs, and their GOP helpers, caring so little for our country or the majority of us as well.

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            mac: Since the end of World War II, there have been 81 months with unemployment over 8%. Forty-three of those months have been under Obama. Get you head out of your butt mac. It isn’t working. We won’t survive forty-eight more months of Obama. I would vote for you before I would vote for Obama. However, you aren’t running, so I’ll proudly vote for Romney.

          • macgyver1948

            MikeR… I would boo you if you wrote me in, LOL.. I wouldn’t be able to take the money people telling me how to do the job and I would tell them so. Romney on the other hand is a mannequin and controlled totally . I would rather you vote for him then to go against your conscience but much of the unemployment months were not caused by Obama. I do not believe any were caused by him but some policies just didn’t make it through to help….

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            mac: Get used to saying these words: President Romney and Vice-President Ryan.
            Unrelated to that, I’d like to add that Muhammed was a complete fraud, a murdering thug, a thief, a rapist, a pedophile, and he smelled like camel crap. I unapologetically insult Muhammed and all the idiots who believe the hatred in the koran. Bring it on.

          • macgyver1948

            Mike R…. I read a fair amount on Muhammad. He and both Jews and Christians got along fairly well until Muhammad’s ego could no longer take their non acceptance of his ”Chosen by God” status. Then Jihad ran wild.

            Ummm, President and VP who?….. Nah. Nothing in that to get used to. Obama took more swing states in the last couple of days. I like the color blue, the more the merrier.

            Obama Gets Good News In Swing States, Leads In Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania: Quinnipiac Polls

          • Jeff

            You are truly a barbarian.

  • Ed

    “The government that would take 10% would be exceedingly oppressive.”
    -Benjamin Franklin

  • H Stan Boring PHC USN (Ret)

    You guys are all over the ball park. Reagan’s chimp Bonzo would be a better choice than BHO. Whomever is the next President will likely appoint two or three Supreme Court Justices. Do you belive in the Second Amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights? If so, then vote for Romney, because we have seen what BHO would choose. Elect Republicans this time, and hold their feet to the fire. Getting rid of BHO is job one! He will ruin this country if re-elected. At least with Romney we have a little breathing room to start electing people who believe the 9th and 10th Amendments mean what they say. With BO again, we are lost. Remember his comment to the Russian President, that after the election, he could be “more flexible”? Please, folks; if you vote for Gary Johnson or stay home, you will re-elect the resident idiot! Working within the Republican Party gives us a better chance of righting the ship.

    • George E

      Stan,

      Now you’re being realistic and practical. That’s no fun, but it is what it is. Thanks.

    • Jeff

      Such an objective, military-like analysis. Full of ridiculous assumptions, half-truths, and baloney. Were you involved in the planning of the Viet Nam War? Iraq?

      What exactly do you mean by your invocation of the 9th amendment? Conservatives generally hate the idea of a Court finding “unenumerated” rights. What would they be from your professional point of view? Maybe the right to have cop-killer bullets or the right of business owners to discriminate, thereby invalidating the Civil Rights Act?

  • Liberty Lover

    Thank you for making the switch and for writing this post explaining it. I agree that Obama is the greatest threat this nation has ever faced. That the worst president in history polls above 40% is sad testimony to the stupidity of the American electorate.

    • SJJolly

      Liberty Lover: “… Obama is the greatest threat this nation has ever faced.” Turn off Faux News, and read some U.S. history, for Heaven’s sakes!

      • George E

        SJ,

        Where do you get your news…………..MSNBC, Huffington Post, Daily Kos? Fine examples of truly objective sources, wouldn’t you say?

    • Jeff

      I’d cool it with the “stupid” talk when you make a categorical statement about the worst president ever and fail to give a nod to your boy W. We had some real nonentities as presidents in the 19th Century including Pierce, one of W’s forebears. But the presidency was much less consequential then. In the 20th Century, when the presidency has really mattered, there have been only two presidents who have had to clean up following Hoover – FDR and BHO. But Hoover II didn’t just leave an economy heading toward depression; he saddled us with two middle east occupations to deal with.

      If you think we were better off in January 2009 than we are now, you are suffering from ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome). I don’t know its source in your case, but you’ve assured me it has nothing to do with pigmentation. Maybe it’s that he speaks in complete sentences. I don’t know, but when you start in a 100 foot hole, it can take a while to get above ground level.

      Romney is Bush all over again with the tax cuts and the deregulation. Yes, corporate executives like deregulation, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. Unregulated banks nearly destroyed the world’s economy after the regulations enacted by FDR prevented a banking crisis for 50 years. So tell me why it’s so great to have no regulations on Wall Street. Maybe we should go back to the days of insider trading – real Ayn Rand laissez faire capitalism. Every man for himself.

      I’m told on this blog everything else is socialism and therefore bad. It’s bad to regulate the banks because the bankers won’t like it; it’s bad to regulate pollution because the manufacturers will go away, it’s bad to be concerned about the poor. To me, you guys talk about liberty, but you’re happy to be ruled by corporate oligarchs. You live in fear that the government will do something that might offend the mighty President of Exxon. For all the money Exxon makes in the U.S., it can abide by some basic regulations.

      • George E

        Jeff,

        I’m OK with “basic” reguations. I believe most everyone is. That’s not our concern. We don’t like the “excess” regulations that our government has a tendency to issue. These add no positive value in reducing real risk, but do add unnecessary cost to everyone. Anyone who has worked with lawyers knows very well they have a tendency to go overboard in trying to prevent risk at any cost. They are usually not bound by risk-benefit assessments when writing contracts (or regulations in this case). That’s the job of business people, but when lawyers are in charge, like they are in government, and aren’t constrained by strong management looking out for the folks, they almost always go too far. That’s where we are today. Further, our government spends almost no effort in reviewing old regulations to make sure they are tuned to provide an optimum result for the country after they are issued. Here again, logic tells us we are probably overburdened with government regulations, because we have inadequate controls over our management of these regulations. We just keep piling new ones on top of old ones and rarely clean up any of them.

        • Jeff

          In reading your post, I’m reminded of Mitt Romney explaining how he’ll cut tax “loopholes.” Which regulations are excessive and how will you change them? When a lawyer writes a contract, he is usually writing it from one side. Similarly, regulations are generally written from one side. Guess which one? The one with the lobbyists. Most regulations are written to be circumvented. Our problem is too much industry involvement in rulemaking, not too little.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I think I agree with you, but the answer to this problem can’t be more regulations written by the same crony capitalists, can it? The answer has to be more balance, and simplification, not more pages of red tape that put up artificial barriers for the crony capitalist’s competition while supposedly looking out for the interests of the American people.

          • Jeff

            The answer can’t be simply deregulation. We need to divide the rulemaking function from the lobbyists. The ultimate answer lies in strict campaign finance reform. We’ve gone lightyears in the opposite direction in the name free speech. As long as billionaires can buy politicians, lobbyists will be writing many of our laws. Lobbyists have a right to be heard; in many cases they have way too much influence.

            http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/01/bain-lobbying-saved-mitt-romney-millions

  • actual socialist

    Am i the only one wondering what exactly mr root has been smoking? first of all anyone with a BASIC understanding of civics knows for a fact that obama is no marxist if anything he is a fascist corpretist secondly why would any sane human being fight for capitilism a system that endorsed slavery that downgrades women from people to the property of ther husbands that in it,s insane thirst for profits would cut down every tree standing never mind the oxygen they produce that is dependent on never ending war that rewards a tiny parasitic few for exploiting the workers to whom they owe everything that would allow your children to die cold and hungrey in the street like a dog so that some fool who has never worked a day in ther life can get yet anouther fat bonus and finally the fact mr root belves mitt romney could save america is laughable at best and pathetic at worst in order to save this countrey you NEED to save it,s workers and i belive romneys record on this speacks for itself HE DOSN,T GIVE TWO S***S ABOUT WORKERS he would raise taxes on them so he can afford to give his fellow parasites anouther tax cut and lets not forget him aproving of abondaning our retiress to a voucher system all the while sucking away the pensions they worked ther fingers to the bone to recive oh and by the way econamies recover better in times of PEACE where as romney would almost immediatly start a war on iran which will drag us into YET ANOUTHER chaotic mess that we can’t posdibly win and could very well start WORLD WAR THREE ROMNEY CAN SAVE AMERICA BAH! ROOT HAS LOST HIS DAMN MIND!!!

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      actual socialist: Have you ever heard of PUNCTUATION?

      • actual socialist

        I was on a roll i forgot it happens

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          actual: You did it again. Perhaps you would have more respect for capitalism if you had taken advantage of our school system and libraries. Your poor spelling and absence of punctuation reveals that you didn’t spend much time in school. You have no knowledge of U.S. history or world history. Your anger should be directed at your mother and father, who obviously ignored the fact that their child wasn’t learning anything.

          • actual socialist

            Nothing on this planet could make me respect the blatent thievery that is capitilism and if you want to blame anyone for the way i talk blame wells elamentery school that allowed me into the fifth grade even though you could not read what i wrote it was not untill my mother took me out and homeschooled me that i could write clearly care to insult her again?

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual: Yes, I would like to insult her again. Thank you.

          • actual socialist

            Sorry could not hear you over your wifes moaning

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual: I don’t have a wife. That was Debbie Wasserman Schultz with duct tape on her mouth.

          • macgyver1948

            actual socialist… We can no more blame Capitalism for the mess we are in than we can a gun for a killing. We have to look to the mind that uses the gun and never give life to inanimate objects.

            Capitalism is a great system and can be fair to all but when greed guides the capitalist there are problems. Do not blame the system of Capitalism, blame the corrupt mind who misuses it…

            As for your ways of expressing yourself. If your mom home schooled you, based on how you write here, she did a decent job. The “No Child Left Behind” crap was a huge mistake. Those who study those kinds of things should try to figure out why those who pushed NCLB did so. It hurt so many kids who are now adults, not only you.

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            “Capitalism is a great system and can be fair to all but when greed guides the capitalist there are problems. Do not blame the system of Capitalism, blame the corrupt mind who misuses it…

            And also, the other greedy ones who seek “something for nothing” who are the rightful “victims” of the so called “sharks”. Without equally greedy dupes, the charlatans would starve…

            Capitalism is just a real world demonstration of Karma in action, folks… reap what you sow…

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme… Are you for real? Do you allow for anything that doesn’t fit into your (Norquist) bath tub to survive?

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            >” Do you allow for anything that doesn’t fit into your (Norquist) bath tub to survive?”

            Per Darwin: “Survival of the fittest.”
            Per Christianity: “God helps those who help themselves.”

            Both are closely aligned with personal responsibility, integrity, and hard work, and when I get home after a long hard day, my bathtub is awesome, thank you for asking…

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme… You remind us with “God helps those who help themselves” but didn’t the Christan Messiah say we should be compassionate and offer help to those who need it? Think about it, the government is suppose to be ours and the ones we elect are suppose to “represent” us. We are not talking about corporations now so I will leave that alone, lol.

            Darwin regretted a lot of what he said in his later years but that is another story.

            LOL> I am so glad you have an awesome bathtub, LOL….

          • George E

            We have long established the principle in this country of helping those who truly need help. Everyone, pretty much, agrees with that. The problem is defining who truly needs help, what kind of help, and how much help they need. It used to be that individuals and communities decided that and acted accordingly with charitable donations and acts of kindness. Then the government stepped in and now they have one size fits all rules that don’t always make sense. Their involvement has also redefined charity from individuals helping each other to the government deciding who should get what, and forcing their rules on everyone. That has taken a lot of the compassion out of the process, I think.

          • sootsme

            George- Yep, I lived for nearly 20 years in a depressed area while our children were growing up, and most of their friends’ families were unemployed and on assorted flavors of public assistance. It’s safe to say that those folks’ per capita consumption of alcohol, pot, and pretty much any other drugs you can think of was truly something to behold, and most of it was paid for by selling EBT benefits, or their gov’t supplied prescription pain pills and anti depressants, or squandering their cash grants.. As a rule, they worked harder at being high than I did to support my family as weii as hosting most of their kids several days a week, especially at meal times… My wife and I knew many of those kids better than their parents, simply because we were sober and willing to hang out and listen. To say the least, I for one am underwhelmed with the results of Pres. Johnson’s “Great society” and the rest of the nanny state’s “help”. I am old enough to remember the “school of hard knocks”, and I must say it consistently produced much better results. Our current state sponsored brand of assistance is doing nothing more or less than “slowing down the herd”, as my hick buddy describes it. Thanks, but NO THANKS!

          • George E

            Sootsme,

            At the risk of offending someone, I’d like to share a thought. Immediately after the Katrina disaster we were bombarded with media images and stories of the poor folks in New Orleans who were supposedly mistreated by our federal government. I watched those pictures and thought about what had happened, as we were told the problem was that those people were poor and couldn’t take care of themselves. Then I realized that poor people in other places didn’t sit by and let the weather and circumstances defeat them. No, they and their neighbors did whatever they could to defend their families and property, and to clean up and rebuild later. This is the normal way that communities have worked together for many years to face hardship. They don’t sit back and wait for the government to take care of them. I believe our welfare system, although well meaning, has helped to incapacitate good people who needed some temporary help, but not permanent hand-outs. This is the sinister side of government “charity”, I think. You can also see it on our Indian reservations. Proud people who lived on this land for thousands of years are now helpless to take care of themselves because, I think, government and tribal welfare has taught them that they don’t have to. We all want to help those who really need help, but we also need to be honest about the value of all these “charitable” programs, and the damage they do to our character as a society.

          • sootsme

            George, you’re right. Near where I lived in the previous post is the Chehalis Indian reservation. Those folks are permitted to place nets across the Chehalis River to harvest salmon for tribal use, per their treaty with the US. While working on the reservation doing restoration/upgrade work on their (trashed for the most part) rental units, I witnessed a member of the tribe show up with a pickup overloaded with netted salmon, which he was selling for $1.00 each. After selling 15 or so, and failing to attract any more buyers, he dumped the rest of his load to rot in the Sun, within 100 yards of his brothers’ and sisters’ homes. I am sure his ancestors and the Great Spirit were greatly saddened if indeed they were watching. I know I was. Prior to our government’s meddling in their affairs, I’m sure such behavior would have resulted in severe sanctions from the tribal leadership. In my experience, this is a very typical example of the fruits of the government’s care and concern for those whose well being they purport to have at heart.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… I agree it would be great if the locals, communities and religious organizations would take care of those truly in need but are they and can they do that without other help? With the homeless and unemployment rates as they are I do not see that help from the locals happening as it is needed. The tough part is determining who really needs and deserves the help and I hope computer technology can catch up with the data base needs but then there is still the human factor in helping and talking with them as well. It is al a huge undertaking. I think your wording “used to be” can no longer apply because of population growth and the greater demands.

            I think compassion can get strained when over stressed/taxed, I agree with you. But we can’t give up on our fellow Americans, especially those who deserve and rate our help. I do not know the answers but I am not willing to give up. We also need to ask why there are those who do not want to help why they are fighting against it. We cannot just accept that it is UN-American to help.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Yes, you are right. We should not give up on our fellow Americans, and I’m pretty sure we won’t. We should help everyone get an opportunity to improve their lives when we can, but we should not enslave them with the promise of continuous government handouts.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… I agree with “but we should not enslave them with the promise of continuous government handouts”. False promises or even promises that do not come to fruition are faith and hope killers.

          • George E

            That’s true too. Personally, I’d like it if I could invest what little money I have in a CD that paid 5+% and never have to worry about risking my money in the stock market, but hey, that went away also. The government let us seniors down on that one too. Looks like our dream retirement isn’t going to happen.

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. CDs might be going down again in value. I know the stock market is a gamble but I have lost some and made more some’s’ which make it worth the risks at times. I would never suggest, as with going to a casino to gamble, to invest more than you can afford to throw away, just have fun with. Also, the very wealthy who do it for the capital gains do it with the advisors they can afford to pay for. Many can not know by themselves what to buy, when to buy and when to sell – many of them do not have the time or the education. I get advice when I want do do a bit more then usual. We can all take advantage of the GW Bush capital gains tax levels to whatever extent we can afford.

            Oh well, I generally do not recommend using the stack market. I will not recommend a stock because I an not an expert. The government is letting many of retirement age down but we aren’t the only ones.

          • actual socialist

            Exept that capitilism is nothing more or less then the glorifacation of greed. it teaches you that to be successfull you need a massive house, multiple cars, fancy suits things that do not improve your life but are meant only to be shown off. but to get this items in the first place you need massive amounts of money which encourages you to cut your employess salaries deny them benifiets cut corners. the only thing that matters to you before long is the maximazation of your own profits. and for the record it has been proven that capitilist econamies experieance a downturn about once a decade they are built into the system so as far as i am concerned the fault is in capitilism and those who promote it for ther own benifiet. no offense to you personally

          • http://PersonalLiberty S.V. Cooper

            Before I take you seriously please go back and fix your 11 spelling mistakes and please do not start a sentence with a preposition. I am not the Spelling Nazi but please!! Capitalism works well and it gives people who work hard the opportunity to spend their money any way they want. How about the leftist Hollywood elite? They have more money than sense. Romney donates a lot of money to the charity of his choice. How about Obama and Biden? Silence of course as they keep most of what they make. I would love to know what the Hollywood group give and please don’t tell me about Brad Pitt. I’m interested in Mahr, Streisand, Cher, Barr and the rest that think we need to know what their opinion is. A real “thinking woman” wants to know. I have had a career for over 35 years in accounting and I have never felt that the GOP was anti women. Give me some verifiable facts. George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, Bush Sr. and Mitt Romney are/were all good husbands and fathers so what exactly have they done against women. Seems to me that most women would kill to be married to men like them. What say you?

          • actual socialist

            Mitt Romney did not work hard his employes workd hard romney merley took the majority of the money the fact he donates to charity does not change that you say capitilism works it does for the rich minority

          • George E

            Socialist,

            Capitalism works for everyone. Maybe everyone doesn’t benefit to the same degree, but then everyone doesn’t work as hard or as smart or risk as much of their money to get the results they get. The standard of living in this country is high because of capitalism.

          • actual socialist

            Millions of children are not getting enough food in this countrey millions of other people are homeless even though ther are empty houses everywhere you mean to tell me that counts as a ” high standerd of living ” to you? you were right about one thing though not everyone works the same the factorey worker works a 14 hour shift around dangerous heavy machinery so his employer can sign a few papers while sitting on ther butt and then give the worker JUST enough to but the bare essentials while the boss heads to the golfcourse is that what you mean buy ” capitilism works for everyone ” ?

          • macgyver1948

            actual socialists… I wonder if the Mitt took the tax benefits for those charity contributions and if he would have made them as often and as much if he couldn’t get the deductions.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            I think a lot of wealthy people give money away to get the tax deduction. That’s the reason the government allows this deduction. It benefits society, I think.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… I too agree many people might not offer charity if they didn’t get tax benefits or weren’t able to claim they gave.

          • actual socialist

            Probably not because most folks like romney tend to not give money away without expecting something in return the phrase ” out of the goodness of your heart ” means NOTHING to them

          • George E

            Socialist,

            When Obama supporters like you talk like this, why would anyone be surprised when the rest of us think Obama is a socialist?

          • actual socialist

            I have said this before and i will keep saying it untill it seeps in to the skulls of people like you I DO NOT SUPPORT OBAMA NO TRUE SOCIALIST DOES BECAUSE HE IS A CAPITILIST TOOL LIKE EVERY OTHER POLITICION TODAY

          • George E

            Interesting. Thanks for the response.

          • actual socialist

            Your wecome

          • macgyver1948

            actual socialist… Thank you for clearing this up for those who will now accept the truth on this. I hope your post, coming from a self proclaimed socialists, will be accepted but I fret that for those who will not accept anything which clashes with what they choose to believe, programmed or not, will not seek in. It is sad. It is easy to say someone is what he isn’t. I could say Mao was a devout Evangelist Christian. HHHHMMM, that was easier than I thought.

          • actual socialist

            You’re welcome nice to know someone understands

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual communist: Some of the posters on this site are gentle with you, but I’m disgusted with your crap. I can tell by your every sentence that you are a guy who has never accomplished anything. You are a loser, and you blame your lack of success on capitalism. You are in love with socialism (or communism?) because you think that you ‘deserve’ to share in the productivity of others. Have you ever worked TWO full-time jobs? Why not? There are 24 yours in each day. How many hours do you need to sit on your ass in front of your computer? If you really want to improve your situation in this TERRIBLE, GREEDY COUNTRY, than get off your ass and work 16 hours, seven days each week, until your situation improves. Can’t find a job? Convenience stores, gas stations, and fast food stores are always looking for help. If you can’t find two full time jobs, then work four part-time jobs. Your hatred of this country disgusts me. If you worked for me, I would have fired your self-loathing ass on the first day.

          • actual socialist

            Ever stop to think that everyone isn,t as selfish as you mike? ever stop to think i advocate these ideas because i belive they will help others? ever stop to think that i say what i say because i beleve they can help this countrey that i love? no of course not that would require thought now wouldn,t it ? that would suggest someone could care about this countrey without thinking exactly like you wouldn,t it you ignorent arrogent prick

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual communist: …..”ignorent arrogent prick” Congratulations on spelling a five letter word correctly. That is amazing progress for you. However, your unintelligible comments are prima-facia evidence that your brain is not capable of understanding socialism, communism, or capitalism.

          • actual socialist

            Because it takes so much brainpower on your part to insult me instead of actually thinking about what i wrote

          • macgyver1948

            actual socialist… Capitalism is only a tool. It is the user of it that can glorify it with greed or not, it is totally his choice.

          • George E

            Well said. Thanks.

          • actual socialist

            You are partly right capitilism is a tool for the rich to maintain ther power by fooling the workers into thinking that anyone can get rich but you say it is up to the idividual? i must respectfully disagree you give a random person a million dollars and they will spoil themselves ther friends and family but the money runs out eventually and the people will have become hooked on the ” good life ” so they will start scheming on how to make more money not because they NEED it but because they WANT it greed is built into the system as a method to keep the workers divided

          • macgyver1948

            actual socialist…. I didn’t say Capitalism is a tool only for the wealthy, it is one for all of us. But since money is power, and the more you have the more power you can have, those wealthy who are greedy and power mongers will use the tool as they want to give themselves more power and more money. Not all very wealthy are greedy power mongers. We mainly hear about the ones that are and the nice ones are too boring for the press to write about.

            Greed was NOT build into the system. It’s like a hammer. You can build a table or a house with it or you can kill people with it, your choice. Should we do away with hammers?

          • George E

            Nice response. I agree with you.

          • macgyver1948

            See George, we can agree on some things. That is good enough for me, :-)))

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            It occurs to me that hammers and corporations have a lot in common, including that the bigger they get, the more you can do with them, and the more finesse is required to control them…

          • George E

            Also, I’ve noticed when a corporation has a “hammer” everything looks like a “nail.”

          • macgyver1948

            George E….. LOL, go George go. And the bigger the hammer becomes the more expendable a nail we become to them… Thanks for that. :-)

          • macgyver1948

            sootsme… you bet ya. so they should watch how they take on bigger hammers as they grow. It can get out of hand, LOL..

          • actual socialist

            ” Should we do away with hammers “? that has got to be the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard you can not compare the two the hammer was created with building construction in mind capitilism was created with greed and explotation in mind and i garantee you one thing nobody died when the hammer was invented but people did die when capitilism was invented in the french revolution

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            “… capitilism was created with greed and explotation in mind …”

            I seriously doubt that this was my 11 year old son’s thought process when he started mowing lawns for folks who would rather pay him than do it themselves.

          • actual socialist

            I said it was the people who invented capitilism who had greed in mind your son is merely following ther example without fully understanding the system

          • sootsme

            I’m calling [expletive deleted] right here- All he knew was that he wanted a few bucks of his own for 11 year old stuff. His first day, he became a capitalist, and it was good. He was the envy of his friends, in no small measure because he could afford to take everyone to the County Fair, which he did. This is America at its finest, folks. If someone doesn’t get it, they are truly missing out and they have my sincere sympathy

          • actual socialist

            And if he and his friends worked together they could make alot more just saying

          • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

            When he tried that, most of them had trouble showing up, not to mention covering gas for the mower & trimmer and taking care of the tools. He switched to hiring them for specific tasks at a wage they were happy with, and did even better by assuming more of the responsibility/ reinvestment aspect of things. Not for everyone, but someone needs to do it, and they deserve to make more, because they are on the hook for keeping the enterprise intact and profitable.

          • actual socialist

            Exactly my point a group working together gets a better result then a bunch of individuals looking out for themselves

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual communist: Why are you here? You could take a jetski from Key West to Cuba and you would be among people who think just like you. Oh, wait. I’m wrong. They don’t like socialism and communism. They are all trying to get to America.

          • actual socialist

            I was born here just like you you ass and if the cubans hate communism so much why do they still think che is a hero? why are they so willing to celabrate the annaversary of the revolution? the actual facts are the ones coming here today are coming to reunite with family and because cubas econamy is little shakey after the capitilist caused global reccession

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            actual communist: Cuban economy “a little shaky”? It’s been shaky since Fidel took over you dumb sh#t. You are really too stupid and this is a waste of my time. I’m done with you.

          • actual socialist

            If it ihas been so bad for so long how is it they can feed everyone? how is it they have one of the lowest infant death rates in the hemosphere? how are they able to create evacuation plans for an entire city encluding pets? how are they able to train docters whos services are requested all over the world and still provide ther citizens free healthcare? explain that i dare you

          • macgyver1948

            anti socialist… It was just an analogy to illustrate a point and not a literal.

          • actual socialist

            Oh i get it was an analogy a very very wierd analogy

    • George E

      Socialist,

      Yes, capitalism is ugly………….until you compare it to all the other types of economies. Can you think of another one that raises the standard of living for the majority of people better?

      Regarding war with Iran, we’re already in one. Who do you think is funding the attacks on American embassy’s, ships, etc, not to mention attacks on Israel? Iran has been conducting war against the US since the Shah left the country. It’s inevitable that we will get drawn in. It’s what they want, and we can only turn our cheek so many times. The only question is “will nuclear weapons be involved?” Obama reminds me of Chamberlain just prior to Germany’s invasion of Poland; ie, in denial and unequiped to handle a foe like this.

      • actual socialist

        George E you say ” capitilism raises the standerd of living for the majority” my responce is simpley this go down to harlem or chicago and say that and see what responce the locals give you i predict it won,t be as civil as the one your getting now you also say ” iran funded the attack on the u.s embassy in libya ” my responce prove it because i think it was the result of bombing ther infastructure killing ther children and leaving them to the mercy of thugs willing to arrest a four year old child because she said something positive about gadaffi it’s called righteous anger george not nesacerilly a conspiracey but just as powerfull

  • SJJolly

    (1) Mr, Root: Doesn’t sound like you had far to go to join the GOP. Leastwise the hard-right wing of it.

    (2) If the Tea Party Republicans take control of both houses of Congress, it doesn’t matter who is in the White House — he will be impeached. Obama, for being a Democrat in the White House. Romney, for not being severely conservative enough to go along with the radical restructuring of the federal government that the hard-right oligarchs behind the Tea Party want done.

    • George E

      SJ,

      I think you’re wrong. The Tea Party mainly wants the government to balance its books and quit spending money it doesn’t have. Likewise, they don’t favor raising taxes to accomplish this because they know that doesn’t solve the problem and retards the economy. If that’s radical, what do you consider normal?

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        GeorgeE: You are a much more patient man than I am. I would have simply told SJJolly that he (she?) is an idiot. I have to admit, your approach is better.

        • George E

          Thanks, Mike.

          I believe most of the Libs on this board are being paid to come here and disrupt and incite arguments among us. I can’t see any other reason why they would spend their time here if they really thought so little of conservatives and libertarians as they say they do. If they can get us to say “stupid” things by coming down to their level, they accomplish their objective. We need to remain calm, objective, focused, and intelligent with our responses so they get impatient and say “stupid” things. Hopefully, any independent people reading these posts will be influenced to support our philosophies, not theirs. Just my thinking.

          Take care.

          • Jeff

            Yes, if someone disagrees with you they must be corrupt. I’m sure your pithy analyses have won over many converts.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I simply try to be objective and logical in my analysis without casting dispersions. I believe we can differ in our interpretations, and still hold similar values and objectives for our country. I’m willing to think independently and differ with main stream party ideology if appropriate, but I don’t try to be entertaining (pithy). I’ll leave that to others who think their crude humor is entertaining. I don’t especially like it and I doubt many other people do either. It may be fun to cast verbal insults back and forth, but it’s not very helpful in seeking the real facts and truth.

            BTW, I noticed you did not dispute my guess that Libs on this site are paid to come here. If I take Lib comments literally, I get the distinct impression they don’t feel welcomed here and they don’t seem to think there is much value from the comments posted by non-Libs, so they can’t be learning anything of value or enjoying the dialogue.

          • Jeff

            No, I was not agreeing that most liberals are paid. That was the purpose of the first sentence. If you know where I can submit an invoice, I’ll gladly do so. Why would you assume that people who think differently from you have some ulterior motive?

          • George E

            Jeff,

            Some of us wonder why you guys would want to spend so much time throwing verbal dispersions back and forth if you didn’t have to. It seems obvious that Libs don’t really enjoy the discussions here. We apparently don’t measure up to their level of knowledge and intelligence. We’ve heard that George Soros has funded organized activities like this, so we’re wondering. That’s all. Personally, I enjoy the debate and discussion, but I don’t care for the insults. That’s really a waste of everyone’s time and dignity.

          • Jeff

            I wasn’t aware you have to hold the “correct” opinions to participate. At least you guys won’t be scratching your heads in January saying “Everyone said they’d vote for Ron Paul. How come Obama is still president? It must be fraud.”

          • George E

            Jeff,

            I didn’t mean to imply that we all need to share the same opinions to participate here. I just think it’s odd that several Libs continue to frequent this website when then obviously don’t enjoy their time here, or at least that’s the impression I get based on numerous discussions. Personally, I think a diversity of opinion could bring a richness to the discussion that otherwise wouldn’t be possible. Sorry if I misled.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Only an idiot believes most liberals are paid to express how they choose and only a liar says most libs are paid. Isn’t that Right? :-)

            I would like to know where to submit an invoice too.

          • George E

            OK. I accept that. What does motivate you guys to keep coming back to this site then? Just wondering.

            Best regards from your resident liar and right-wing idiot………….

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. LOL. I will speak for only me as to why I come back here… I go to other sites as HuffingtonPost and Yahoo and The New York Times and there it is pretty simple because most who go to those are left slanting, so to speak, and there is no real controversy. I learn from the articles but not so much with constant acceptance of what I write there.

            Coming here, when I text with those on the other side with different views, as long as they do not get insulting and childish at me, I can learn form their different points of view. IT is more difficult here when I am told how blind I am for not agreeing with them, and that feels like they deny my rights to think and feel as I choose, but the moderate ones here are ok to chat with.

            Believe me George, most libs are not paid to express their First Amendment rights or to goat the opposition by the left. I got tired of hearing we are shills or something worse because we are paid to antagonize or something. I say I disagree with something the Dems do when I see it. Obama is not any where near perfect but he is, as I see it, trying to help and protect us in American ways. I speak and support the platform or the program and not the party. I just lean more left.

            I am not sure I am an actually lib but I can never be Tea Party of today or far right conservative at all. And as long as so many of the GOP in Government, over 270 of them, sign conflict of interest for life or else pledges, I can not support the GOP at all. I See them as strictly working to benefit and protect the big money at our expense. All in how we see it.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            I understand, and apologize for “accusing” you of coming to this site to disrupt. I for one welcome your inputs and hope that you will never find me insulting or unprofessionally critical of your views. You have a right to your opinions just like I do. Truth be told, even though we both have strong leanings, neither of us really know all the facts and have all the answers. Most of the time we filter the information we get through our preconceived filters and judge accordingly. More often than not, we’ll get an answer that complies with our previous bias because that’s the answer we’re looking for. That’s why having an intelligent and cordial conversation about serious issues can help in our own understanding. Thank you for your contributions. I can tell that I don’t think you and I are nearly as far apart in our opinions as I originally thought. I see you as being slightly left of center while I think I’m slightly right of center. There may be some serious differences between us, but the distance may not be all that far.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… :-)… I suppose I can come across a bit harsh since I am passionate about our country and its liberties and freedoms. I do not mean to but I know it can come out that way. This is what happened during the Revolutionary War, people seeing things differently came together risking their lives for the good of what they could have and they gifted it to us in the form of our Constitution.

            You are right when you say we do not really know the facts but we have to go by our gut and do all the research we can. I cannot listen to the left and be sure of it just because they say so. I really enjoy “intelligent and cordial conversation about serious issues” and that is why I come here but there have been some nasty responses here too but I try to deal wit those too. No one has to agree with me for me to enjoy exchanging views. I too see we are not so far apart in that we care about our country. You seeing things differently in your leanings is what what makes this a learning experience. Thank you for that. I am some what left of center but I am not sure how much and it doesn’t matter to me since I am for capitalism and liberty as I feel the Founders meant them to be.

            Knowing that both communism and Fascism are extreme forms of socialism I was always totally opposed to socialism all together until I looked it up in the dictionary and began to think about it. Since then I am happy being close to the middle and I am still totally opposed to the extremes. And maybe because of that I see the real choice between Romney and Obama as the difference in their views and stances on Capitalism which they both are for but from different sides of the social and economic scale..

  • Sea Jay

    Wayne you are right in the fact that this Marxist America HATER has to go , I hope Romney wins but I am a supporter of the Liberty Movement and all Romney will do is slow down the march to Marxism , the problem is Obama’s Marxist ideals have already grown DEEP roots in Amerika ( and that is how we will spell it with 4 more years of Obama) . Romney is a Globalist!! He will take his orders from the CFR , Trilateral Commission and the Builderbergers , if he decides to defend Liberty he will cross this handlers and they will either ” NIxon ” him or ” JFK ” him . We will know very early on in a Romney Administration where he stands with LIberty , I do hope he wins and I will give him a chance seeing he has been flexible in his views and those should be moves towards more Liberty not less, he needs to say no the Neocons that will want to invade his cabinet and administration , finally he NEEDS to listen to guys like Gary Johnson as Gov Johnson has better ideas about getting the economy going in fact giving Gary Johnson and a few other Libertarians cabinet posts would be a wise move but he HAS to SAY HELL NO to scum like Karl Rove and the likes…….come on Mitt , you know what you have to do , do the right thing!

  • http://TheRichDontPayTax.com/ John Gaver

    If nothing else, Obama is uniting the many diverse segments of conservative political culture. I’ve always thought that Libertarians, deep down inside, had some common sense, but I was beginning to wonder if I had over-estimated them. I’m truly glad to see that I was right.

    Every vote for Johnson is not only a vote for Obama, but a vote for the end of this nation, as a home for Liberty, Freedom and Justice.

    I like a good part of what the LP stands for. But at the same time, I’m not going to cut off my nose, to spite my face.

    Thanks, Wayne. I hope that a lot of other Libertarians put their pride on hold for at least this election and follow your enlightened lead.

  • Karl Landgren

    I, too, have had libertarian leanings for many years. And, yes, anyone who is deeply troubled at seeing our Divinely inspired Supreme Law rejected gradually and intermittently over the past hundred years–and shredded during the last four years–MUST unite to evict this fraud who occupies 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
    Prior to that fateful day in Nov., ’08, we already knew many reasons–some almost dismissable, others monumental–why an Obama presidency would be disastrous.
    I compiled and distributed a list of thirty (30!) disturbing facts at the poll that morning. Anyone paying attention before that election could have easily rattled off their personal top ten without having to think hard. Each so-called American who willfully voted without examining the evidence against this avowed enemy should be woefully ashamed.
    To those liberals (whether you are uninformed, gullible, and/or evil) who still inexplicably support this aspiring tyrant (&/or puppet), you are hereby cordially invited–make that encouraged–to go try enduring a year or more in Cuba, North Korea, or any wasteland of your choice. This land was hallowed to be a haven for those of us who cherish the blessings of liberty. Many noble souls were inspired to establish this unique nation. Good men bled, froze, wept, sweated starved to secure America for people who appreciate their valiant sacrifices. How dare you effectively spit on their sacred graves. Join our fight for Constitutional self-governance, or go to where despotism already has a stranglehold on the citizens–or, rather, subjects.

    • Jeff

      Cuba, North Korea, Kenya, Mau Mau, Lenin, Trotsky, Marx, Hitler, Stalin.

      Nobody outside this idiotic blog or the Fox News- Rush Fatbaugh Bubble is paying any attention to you loons. Just keep talking amongst yourselves, maybe organize a field trip to Glenn Beck’s ancestral drug hangouts where many of your most cherished beliefs were first hallucinated.

      • George E

        Jeff,

        If the discussion here is so vile and disgusting to you, why do you spend so much time reading and answering these posts? I would think you might have something more useful to do with your time.

    • George E

      Nice post.

  • Mike

    You are so right wayne, put aside your differences with etablishment republicans because Mitt represents the values and interests of the American people….not. What a sell out loser. You sell it as though Romney is any different than Obama. Romney will put you on National databases on nearly everything, he will uphold and even embolden legislation like Patriot Act, FISA, NDAA, as civil liberties evolve towards totalitarianism. If you cared at all about the legacy you have built for your children you would endorse Gary Johnson.

  • Briggs Phariss

    @ GALT: Here is why the Democrates caused it ALL.
    Subject: Fwd: Tell me about “inherited” !

    This tells the whole story, why Bush was so bad at the end of his term.
    Don’t just skim over this, it’s not long, so read it slowly and let it sink
    in. If in doubt, check it out!

    The day the Democrats took over was not January 22nd 2009, it was actually
    January 3rd 2007, the day Democrats took over the House of Representatives
    and the Senate, at the very start of the 110th Congress. Keep in mind
    throughout this discussion that it’s Congress that controls the purse
    strings … not the President.

    The Democrat Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time
    since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.

    For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that
    everything is “Bush’s Fault”, think about this:

    January 3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate
    and the Congress.

    At the time:
    a.. The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
    b.. The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
    c.. The Unemployment rate was 4.6%.
    d.. George Bush’s Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT
    MONTHS of JOB GROWTH

    Remember the day…

    January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the
    House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the
    Senate Banking Committee.

    The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what
    part of the economy? BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!

    Unemployment…dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the
    economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOES!

    Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting
    in 2001 because it was financially risky for the US economy.
    a..And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND
    Freddie Mac? OBAMA
    b.. And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie? OBAMA and
    the Democrat Congress.

    So when someone tries to blame Bush, REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd,
    2007…. THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER!

    Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress
    and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the
    Democrat Party. Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the budget
    process for 2008 & 2009 as well as 2010 &2011.

    In that first year, they had to contend with George Bush, which
    caused them to compromise on spending, when Bush somewhat
    belatedly got tough on spending increases.

    For 2009 though, Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid bypassed George Bush
    entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government
    running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they
    passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the 2009
    budgets. And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a
    member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive
    spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to
    complete 2009.

    If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the 2007 deficit,
    the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in
    five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending.
    After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and
    that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets.

    If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself. In a
    nutshell, what Obama is saying is I inherited a deficit that I
    voted for and then I voted to expand that deficit four-fold since

    • Cindy

      Dude, when Bush asked the congress , about Fannie Mae,you are aware that during that time the Congress was held by the repubs aren’t you? Little more research on your part is needed. But my biggest question for you is : Do you think the repubs paid for the two wars or the Medicare advantage D program? If you think they did pay for those items, how did they pay for them? Even the hard core neo cons, admit that he inherited a bad hand, are you saying your party leaders are wrong and the wars were paid for?

      • George E

        Cindy,

        Sure Obama inherited a bad economy, but so did other Presidents, like Reagan and GWB. They fixed their economies using tried and tested capitalist methods. Obama is doing all the wrong things to turn this economy around. That’s the real problem.

        http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/is-obama-a-socialist-or-a-fascist/

        • macgyver1948

          George E… The economy wasn’t so bad when GW bush took over, GW helped take it to where it is now, but I get your point of many presidents took over from bad economies. It takes a while to recover and how long that recovery will take depends on the extent of the break down and what kinds of recovery is suggested. We are in the hope and wait stage of the recovery that has been needed for more than 4 years now.

          • George E

            Just a refresher. There was the tech bubble collapse in 2000 and then 9/11 in 2001 that drug down the economy a whole lot. That’s when GWB asked for tax cuts to try to get the economy growing again, which did happen but from a pretty low starting point. And, all of this was going on at a time when he was trying to conduct 2 wars in the middle East. A lot of Presidents have it tough, but they don’t all blame their predecessor incessantly for the next 4 years like this one has.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Ask why we went to those wars when GW lied to get us into them. He added to our high expenses and we do not really know why.

            Those bush tax gifts you mention went to many who did nothing with then but save for themselves. They did not use them to help the country which was the point to them. If you think I am wrong where are the jobs since then? How does Trickle Down work when those who receive will not allow enough to trickle?

            As for Obama blaming bush so much. He does not blame the bush nearly as much as the GOP and the Right blame Obama for everything since way before Obama. They hated him for years before he was elected. Why is that? “I blame Obama for all the expenses since he got us into the Iraq war”. Mechelle Bachmann . That was my paraphrasing since I heard her say that last year and it is as best I can remember but it is so very close. Who got us into Iraq?

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            GWB’s tax cuts did stimulate economic growth in the private sector once they kicked in. Remember the unemployment rate steadily dropped while GWB was in office and got down to under 5%, I believe. Tax revenues rose significantly after the tax cuts went into effect. However, our economy, especially the labor part of it, is under a great deal of stress due to globalization. Jobs and manufacturing are often outsourced overseas. That hasn’t helped workers get raises or extra benefits, but has given them a lot of anxiety over losing their jobs at some point. It has also meant that Americans have had to work longer hours and harder to keep their jobs, so it certainly hasn’t been all “wine and roses” for American workers. Having said that, no one created this problem to take advantage of workers, and blaming each other doesn’t solve the problem.

            Yes, GWB took us to war in Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s true. You think he lied to get us into these wars. I don’t. However, I will admit that he misled us on some of the facts, but I don’t think that was because he intentionally lied. It looks to me like he didn’t get good intelligence reports. But that’s another issue we probably shouldn’t take time to debate now. I will note, however, that a majority of Democrats in Congress initially supported both of these wars. In fact, we should also note that after a couple years into these wars, and after Democrats saw political advantage in opposing the Iraq war, Democrats said on several occasions that Afghanistan was the “good” war, but Iraq wasn’t. Obama has significantly increased American presence in Afghanistan since he became President.

            I don’t recall Republicans hating Obama years before he became President. After all Obama only became a US Senator from Illinois a couple years before running for President. I doubt very many Republicans, especially those outside Illinois, paid much attention to him before that.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… You said and reminded me of “Macgyver, GWB’s tax cuts did stimulate economic growth in the private sector once they kicked in. Remember the unemployment rate steadily dropped while GWB was in office and got down to under 5%,”. So why has the unemployment rate gone up since then almost immediately and steadily climbing. Is it because there is a Dem in the white House and particularly this one? I have a feeling if Romney wins a miracle will happen. All of a sudden the job openings will spring eternal. We are suffering as a country for how long now and there is such a slow job growth rate. If we are paying attention we should know many of the big corporations are doing well, and have been for a while, so where are the jobs. The Execs can create jobs if they feel like it. They have other agendas.

            You go on toe say “But that’s another issue we probably shouldn’t take time to debate now. I will note, however, that a majority of Democrats in Congress initially supported both of these wars”.

            Yes many dems did in deed vote to go to the bush wars and although they didn’t like it they did so because we tend to want to believe our president especially on such an evil issue. When we all found out bush lied many of the dems said they would have voted differently if they had known the truth. The GOP stuck with their decision and some of the GOP said of the Dems who said they would have voted differently “they are wishy-washy”. Who would you consider more honorable or honorable at all? The way I see it, I guess sticking with your party and your vote is more important than honor and truth to those GOP.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            You’re right, if Romney is elected job growth will follow because the economy will also grow. There’s no conspiracy against Obama going on here. Obama could get it going himself if he’d just do the right things. He had a lot of support from the business community when he was elected, so they were trying to help him. Here’s about what I expect Romney to do. 1) Immediately release our fossil fuels industry to start growing again. There are projects waiting right now that can open thousands of jobs within 6 months if the government would turn them loose. These jobs and projects would create additional jobs and economic growth down the supply chain. They will also create a lot of revenue for the government which is badly needed. 2) Keep all of the Bush tax cuts so no additional burdens are put on the economy. Try to get Congressional agreement to extend them for at least 5 years so businesses could plan accordingly. 3) Reduce the corporate tax rate to 25%, but look for offsetting deductions that can be eliminated. 4) Look for onerous regulations to simplify and clarify that might be holding business back. 5) Create a budget for the federal government which holds spending to no more than 20% of GDP, and shows serious intent to reduce deficits and balance the budget over the President’s first term. Develop a long term plan for paying down the debt to sustainable levels. 6) Replace Ben Bernaecke with a Fed Chairman that will protect the value of the USD. 7) Invest heavily in basic research in areas that hold significant promise of commercial or strategic value. Hopefully, many viable commercial products can be spun-off of these research projects while employing many of our engineers and scientists. 8) Meet with business leaders representing all industries, not just the few the President is interested in succeeding, and get their inputs on what the government might do to stimulate economic growth in this country, short of giving them money . Implement as many of those ideas as possible. Most important might be his meetings with small and medium sized businesses where most jobs are created, but not a lot of campaign contributions. 9) Appoint a Presidential commission to study tax reform and make a recommendation on how to go about it with a goal of making it as simple, fair, and least punitive as possible while collecting revenues equal to 18%-20% of GDP. Then ask Congress to approve, amend as necessary, and pass by the end of year 2 of his administration. 10) Ask Congress to pick up the Boyles-Simpson Commission health care reform recommendation and approve, amend as necessary, and pass by the end of year 2 of his administration. This may involve amending, replacing, or removing parts of the current health care law (Obama Care). 11) Establish a Presidential commission to study and recommend the best way of reforming our immigration laws with a goal of managing immigration to incent immigrants of the types and numbers we need to grow our economy. Establish a temporary visa program that makes it easy for immigrants to come here to work, then go home. Make it harsh on immigrants that come here illegally when found on US soil without the proper visa. Pass a law that makes it clear that when neither parent is a US citizen and they have babies on US soil, that the baby is no longer awarded US citizenship. Give permanent visas to foreign students who graduate from an American university with a science or engineering/technical degree. Ask Congress to approve, amend as necessary, and pass. 12) Pass free-trade agreements with countries we can trade with on an equitable basis. Utilize reciprocity agreements to incent the foreign trade partner countries to buy established percentages of the total trade from US suppliers. Also, include agreements to keep countries from manipulating their currencies to give their exports favorable advantage.

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. I really cannot agree with you on this. Obama has been trying to do ”the right things” but the real job creators, the corporate Exes, and the GOP are not cooperating. But they will if Romney is elected and very soon after inauguration day. It will be so funny how that will work. It is almost as if it were written…
            Well, that is how I see it but who knows.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            Let me see if I can explain my theory of why Obama’s economic plan doesn’t work. It seems he wants to give government benefits directly to individuals rather than having individuals hope some of the benefits given companies and wealthy people will “trickle down” to them. This supports his view that government has to look out for the “little guy” since they’ve been getting short changed by “big” business. His theory is that giving benefits to individuals will create consumer demand and that demand will jump-start the economy. This doesn’t work because the thing the economy needs to stimulate and sustain growth is “value”. Value, the life blood of wealth, is created through innovation, invention, and productivity. From these elements value and wealth will be created and the economy will grow. Generally speaking, individuals don’t generate these elements on their own, but do contribute to them in their work enterprises, or companies. So if you want to grow the economy, you must do the things necessary to generate more innovation, invention, and productivity, and that’s why the government must work with businesses to get this done. This is a reason why adding taxes and regulations to businesses is not a good idea when you want them to innovate, invent, and improve productivity. If you want to address the reason why middle income folks aren’t benefiting as much as you think they should, then there are other things one might want to look at, but demonizing the wealthy is not a productive way of fixing that problem.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… I do understand your points and your theory… I respect your vision of these things for you. You do not have to restate your case to me for me to understand you but also we do not have to stop discussing these and other things either. We need communication and since we want the same basic things, although a different captain, stopping the chat will cause more problems. Just open the box and unfold, no convincing necessary.

          • George E

            I understand. Thanks. Does the notion that “demand without value can not create economic growth” make sense to you? I really haven’t heard this discussed much by anyone, but it makes sense to me. I’ve thought about this issue quite a bit because I heard debates but none of the explanations given have made sense to me. This does. Value, which is created by innovation, invention, and productivity, creates wealth, which raises our standard of living and stimulates demand and investment. Makes more sense to me than the other explanations I’ve heard. If there’s a better one, I’d like to hear it.

          • macgyver1948

            George E… Your question “Does the notion that “demand without value can not create economic growth” make sense to you?”. I suppose it depends on how a person looks at it and defines “value”. In general terms people want value for what they are going after. IF you were not a country western fan and your daughter was and want a Earl Haggard video would you pay $25 for her and where would the value in that be for you? Maybe in her joy?

            Things tend to lose value when you get it often and perhaps if was not “worked” for but it could still be in demand. I do not really understand Welfare because I never had a need for it but I could imagine the demand from those who grew dependent on it.

            Whether need is assumed or is real may not really matter. A new invention will survive and grow or die depending on perceived need or desire. I have a feeling “create or find a need and they will come” has been the driving force behind many new products. Whatever the case the more we spend on stuff the more our economy will flourish. I believe more in Trickle UP, derived at through more jobs with decent wages in great enough numbers, than Trickle Down to stimulate the economy. The “find or create need” concept has proven all to often not to work if there is no money to drive us to the stores.

          • George E

            Macgyver,

            By “value” I mean something that other people are willing to pay money for (consumer demand). That generates commerce, which generates jobs, etc. Even in a bad economy, consumers buy things with the money they have available to them. If they find something that gives them more value (could be a lower price, or better quality, or more capabilities, etc.) than what they’ve been buying, then they will buy the new item. Walmart has done that with their low price products. Apple is doing that with their new products with their capabilities. All of these new “values” come from innovation, invention, and productivity improvements generated by companies. Hopefully, the wealth that is generated from these new products will be shared by the employees and customers of these companies. One of the ways consumers share in this wealth is when a company can bring lower priced products to market by finding innovative ways of cutting their costs, possibly through higher productivity methods, the consumers have more money left over after buying these products to buy additional products that they wouldn’t have had before the lower priced products were available Employees share in the wealth generated through higher wages, better benefits, more job opportunities as the company grows, more job security, etc. Of course, all employees don’t get all of these things, but most will get some of them to make their personal situations a little better by working for that company. Anyway, that’s the way I think it’s supposed to work.

          • macgyver1948

            George E…. I am not sure the real definition of “value” is the same as what people are willing to pay money for, or can. People, in general terms, tend to buy what they can afford and not what they might consider the better value. I know Walmart sells a lot of watered down quality because their goal is to sell more and more often, and they do. Built in obsolescence is the goal to sell more cheaper stuff more often.
            In this way the more expensive thing might last longer, some time longer than 2 to 3 of the cheaper item, but it costs more “now”.

            Here is a thought… Scenario 1…Let’s say current quality and engineering are the same for each as they really are. Take 2 cars and let’s assume for this example that people like both for what they are. We have a Chevy Impala and the Mercedes 600 series something. Quantities are huge for both. Now let’s price them both at $25,000 brand new.

            Scenario 2… Now let’s bring us back to reality on price for each.

            Considering both scenarios which one will have more people buying the Mercedes and which will have more buying the Chevy? Value may also depend on what we can afford but we can still have in our minds what we would really want.

            Consumers generally buy things according to the money available to them, as you say, good or bad economy, with some degree of caution. Innovation will affect what people will go into debt for but they pay for that eventually if it is above their means to repay – like houses with balloon mortgages that will grow beyond our capacity to pay it later. I want that new exciting bobble even though I cannot afford it.

            You say “Hopefully, the wealth that is generated from these new products will be shared by the employees and customers of these companies”. I think you are assuming too much but I like your optimism. Lower prices at a retailer is a regular for a period followed by raising them again. At Walmart, for example, every week there are price adjustments going on. It is to bring people in to buy more, the nature and purpose of advertising. They do not mention the items that were advertised as a lowering last week goes back up this week. So we consumers take advantage if it as we can and we hope the value is there. As for employees benefiting, that is some what laughable. During sales employees are expected to work harder because there could be more customers.

            Man I could tell you about one typical year Walmart did very well and they told their associates their bonuses would be determined by their hard work (this is so very subjective on the part of the corporations) and the corporation’s bottom line. I guess I am telling it, LOL.. Well, Walmart had it’s best last quarter in so many years and a great all around year but the bonuses for the hourly were lower than they have been for many years. Why do you think that was? By the way, the Exec bonuses and salary raises were huge that year too. :-). They have to keep as much money at the top as they can for reasons and I just expressed one of them.

            What better benefits are you taking about for the employees? The value of benefits in general have decreased for the employees so much over the years. I had great benefits when I first started working and have for a good number of years wherever I worked. Not any more in the last decade or two. Exec benefits seem to remain GREAT. More of that ‘keeping more money at the top’ thing. Yes I know insurances are getting more expenses but that doesn’t mean we should diminish what the poor exec should receive, it has to come from some place.

        • Jeff

          Absolute nonsense. Sowell is equating the weakest form of social democracy with the strongest form of state control. Its equivalent would be my arguing that Romney wanting to lower taxes means he really wants no taxes so there will be no public sector whatsoever. A true Ayn Rand nightmare society.

          Where is the totalitarianism since WWII? All the advanced democracies of Europe are more social democracies than we are. Why have these policies not led to a totalitarian takeover? For a number of reasons social and political, I’m sure, but the idea expressed by Sowell that totalitarianism is the ultimate goal or the ultimate end of any policy designed to smoothe the rough edges of free market capitalism is just making excuses to keep taxes low and industries deregulated.

  • bob

    TO the GOP, i know some of you want to unite America and if (you are serious) then Romney needs to meet the American people half way and at the VERY LEAST put Ron Paul in as vice president. He WILL win. If Obama had Ron Paul in as vice P.. he would win BUT i don’t think Paul would take him up on it. How do i know Romney would WIN?? Ron Paul is LOVE by people on all sides, a man of the people by the people and for the people. I was a Rep.. all my life (no more) unless at the vary least Romney has Paul as V.P. WOW the to names sound good togather no?? This is if your serious about wining big, if not then GOD help us. Romney is missing the wining piece. I know i would be happy to say, I am a Rep… libertarian YA.

  • WTH

    I believe our last stand to save America was Ron Paul. I have read that both Romney and Obama are no different from one another. The only candidate that doesn’t flip flop on issues he believes in is Ron Paul. Politicians lie to get elected. It is hard to trust what they say anymore when they campaign. Both of these politicians like big government and I don’t see either of them returning the freedoms back to Americans that Bush, Jr. confiscated with the Patriot Act.

  • Robert

    Dear Mr Root,

    I do believe YOU are delusional. Your first five paragraphs, before… Now do I have your attention, particularly the second paragraph about the Constitution and our freedoms. What freedoms? Yep, we can still go to the bathroom unwatched, but for how long?

    You used the word “delusional” in this, your major political announcement. I’d like to suggest that you appear to be a bit that way yourself if you really believe that romney is anyone to be trusted. He kindly provided the model for obama care, remember? Romney is another hawk and we need a leader who will avoid foreign entanglements, bring our troops home to defend American borders, and quit being the world’s policeman. The Neuremberg Trials defined “naked aggression” as a war crime and so any President who engages in “pre-emptive strikes” is a war criminal and we don’t need another one who’ll start another “banker’s war” for the profit of the so-called elite. Let Israel fight their own wars.

    I’m several years your senior, and I used to vote for the lesser of the two evils but that is very ancient history. I will vote my conscience, for Ron Paul, and I hope all Ron Paul supporters will do the same. You said that we, and certain groups, should form a coalition for romney. I say let the chips fall where they may because there will be a lot of VERRRY pissed off people for the republicans to deal with four years from now.

    Didn’t you see how Romney, and the GOP, didn’t even play by the Convention rules when they prevented Ron Paul (our only REAL choice) and his delegates from being seated? If your pick couldn’t even be fair and honest with a man all REAL conservatives acknowledge as someone worthy of respect; how can we expect him to be any more ethical than obama? Mostly rhetoric. He is just a different horse from the SAME owner’s stable running in the derby. It doesn’t make much difference to them which horse wins because either means the trophy of business as usual.

    You state that you believe mitt romney is our reagan. Could be, but all of you guys who think ronnie was so great only see the superficial stuff because his real record was not nearly that great despite what his cheer-leaders now say. Great communicator, but mostly just a b-grade movie actor in old hokey westerns. Mitt into ronnie? Oh joy!

    Real change has been needed for many years. I don’t suppose that you personally remember that in 1964 senator goldwater (conscience of a conservative) spit on the RIGHT WING of the Republican party just as romney recently did with his treatment of Ron Paul. That sorry SOB (barry) called the right wing of the party… “extremists” and said he didn’t want to be associated with them. It turned out that they didn’t want to be associated with him either. Goldwater went down in a BIG defeat because he was a big hypocrite. If Ron Paul could be called an extremist, then I’m proud to be one too. Lets kill the fed and lots of alphabet agencies and put America first. Starting with sound money. Romney blew it.

    It is my carefully considered opinion that four more years of this atrocious administration and traitorous republicrat rule will be necessary to bring the NATION and the republican party to the realization that we need REAL reform, (not neo-con republicanism) and the leadership of Ron Paul or someone else who can prove their position with a real verifiable, pro-American voting record. Please go back to Columbia. with Cloward and Piven you waffling pseudo-Libertarian.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Robert: Saul Alinsky and Cloward and Piven are what you will get in another Obama administration. In addition, you will get a long list of avowed communists and socialists, who will control every aspect of your life. For the full list, go to frontpagemag.com

    • macgyver1948

      Robert…. You say at the top “Dear Mr Root, I do believe YOU are delusional”. That is the way of the root and you are so correct. With the articles he write and the evidence he tries to present you cannot be wrong in your opening line….

  • GiveMeLiberty

    I align very closely with Mr. Root, though I WON’T join that party. A true believer in SMALL and LIMITED government, I’ve dragged my feet with Mitt but I’m a realist and if I want to help save our nation, then show me voting for Mitt as well.

    Though we might have an extreme ‘wag the dog’ global situation going on, just watching us apologize to a bunch of animals this week, that raped and slaughtered our ambassor, reaffirms we need new leadership!

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      GiveMeLiberty: I agree. Romney is our only choice this election. If we can elect enough small government candidates in the House and Senate, they will guide Romney to the right. It’s easy to find the Senate races on the internet. I donated to all of the conservative Senate candidates who had a chance of winning. If a candidate was double digits ahead, I didn’t send him anything. If a candidate was double digits behind, I didn’t send him anything. The ones who are in tight races need money now for advertising. Unfortunate but true – money wins elections. A candidate can’t pay for expensive advertising without lots of money, and every dollar helps. If Romney wins, and Boehner can be forced to step down, our economy would experience an amazing turnaround. Todd Akin (R-MO) could still win if collects enough money.

  • Thom Raasio

    DANGER – DANGER – ALERT- ALERT – WARNING – WARNING – MARTIAL LAW BEFORE END OF 2012!!!

    WHAT’S THE PLAN??? HOW WILL WE STOP IT???

    So WE HAVE 50 million armed citizens, and NO PLAN OF ACTION to stop this clown in Washington. What’s your plan?????? When they declare martial law and array the military against you…………..what’s your plan???? How many will stand with you?? Who will YOU stand with??? Who’ll step out first??? Do you know 100 people in your immediate neighborhood that will join you if the military comes to your town??? What can 100 men do against the armed military……NOTHING! ……you’ll be slaughtered like pigs. If you have a thousand in your neighborhood…..what will you do??? Who will call you into the streets when OBAMA has cut off your cellphones and internet, how will you communicate??? He won’t let happen here, what happened in Egypt. He’ll close down the bandwidth and ALL CONSERVATIVE MEDIA. WHAT WILL YOU DO??

    HERE’S WHAT TO DO!!! HERE’S THE PLAN!! PASS IT AROUND, twitter it, facebook it, e-mail it, talk it, walk it.

    EVERYONE PUT ON EMPTY HOLSTERS FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR, STARTING RIGHT NOW.

    ITS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SHOW EACH OTHER WE WILL STAND TOGETHER ON THE DAY WE HAVE TO STEP OUT!

    If the government cuts off communications, or signs the U.N. Small Arms Treaty or declares Martial Law………..ANYONE OF THESE INCIDENTS……..THE NEXT DAY at 9:00 a.m. EST, EVERY AMERICAN PATRIOT put your gun in your holster and sling your long gun over your shoulder and WE ALL, as one huge 40 MILLION man army step out into the public fully armed and NEVER TAKE THE GUNS OFF AGAIN. Immediately swarm the local government offices and police stations making CITIZENS ARREST of all TAX PAID OFFICIALS who side with the Martial Law edict or the U.N..Small Arms Treaty or they cut off our communications. WE HAVE TO ALL ACT TOGETHER NATIONWIDE to overcome the situation. 9:00 a.m. EST (Eastern Standard Time) the NEXT MORNING. DON’T WAIT TO SEE WHO’S GOING TO BE FIRST……EVERYONE, EVERY AMERICAN PATRIOT, BE FIRST…..THEN and ONLY THEN can we be assured EVERYONE WILL SHOW UP

    • http://lfb.org/today/how-the-world-will-change/ Mark-Edward

      First sensible thing I’ve heard in a long while. But I think it’s too late. America is a land of cowards, and you won’t find 10 people who would openly challenge “government”.

    • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

      Wow! Elegantly simple & effective, if this catches on. I would be more amenable to the empty holsters on specified days, just to illustrate a rough idea of who’s who, but not create undue alarm or overly tip our hand to the goons. Massive citizens’ arrests, initiated within hours would be key- Same vein as the head on a pike policy, although not quite so final… Martial law, UN Small Arms treaty, Section 1021 of the NDAA (recently enjoined as unconstitutional by a Federal judge), and other such stuff are Acts of War against “We the People”, and this is the simplest and most effective way I have heard of so far to deal with it. Certainly would give them pause before trying it again, methinks…

  • http://lfb.org/today/how-the-world-will-change/ Mark-Edward

    How in blazes will Romney “save america”? He just showed his criminal intent at the RNC!! He does not care one wit about America or it’s people or the people’s wishes. He is a power-hungry greedy swine looking to get his share of the filthy lucre that comes with this job as head of the rotten government. Has everybody forgotten the RNC already? Perhaps if Ron Paul got fair media coverage, HE would be the republican candidate and this move by Root would be justified. But the criminal Romney took away our choice.

    Our “government” has become irrelevant. It’s time we all start thinking that. They have gone astray, and view themselves as a Ruling Class. A vote for ANYONE is a vote against America. Both parties are controlled by the same anti-American bankster organization. Quit worshipping government. They are irrelevant. Withdraw your consent instead of jumping in bed with one side or the other. We are doomed as long as the only choice is Republican or Democrat. At least with Obama, we have a chance that the abrupt push for tyranny MIGHT wake some Americans up. Romney will just boil us slower and keep us asleep while we all die.

    Obama only has the power that we BELIEVE he has. If America as a people would just resist the urge to support this insanity, and do like Ghandi and passively resist the whole mess, we might have a chance. America is us, the people, not these suited monkeys in Washington D.C.. The U.S. Government, Inc. has long ago declared its independence from the American People. Government is a superstitious belief system. Change your mind, and change the world.

    • George E

      Mark,

      Well stated, but I’m still voting for Romney. Only one of two candidates is going to win this election; ie, Obama or Romney, and I want my vote to count. Obama is at best incompetent, but at worst deliberately trying to bring down America. Romney at worst can’t be any worse than Obama, but at best may actually have enough sense and determination to see that we’re drowning in a sea of debt that needs to be curbed, and enough experience to be able to do something about it. Hopefully, this can be done without hurting too many people, but it will hurt because we’ve let the debt get too large, and every day we put off fixing this problem, the more pain we’re going to suffer. I don’t believe Obama sees this problem, or he just doesn’t care. In any case, he’s not fixing it, and as best I can tell, has no plan to fix it. The most obvious example of this is he hasn’t insisted on Harry Reid passing a budget since the beginning of Obama’s administration. Without a budget to run the government, there is little to no chance of balancing the budget or even managing the deficit.

      • Jeff

        The next time we have a Republican president you will notice a precipitous drop in Republicans’ worry over the debt. It will not keep them from invading the next tinpot dictator (“another Hitler”) or from another round of tax cuts for the rich. Austerity will not work. It will destroy the economy without reducing the debt. Economic growth is the answer. That involves investment (yes, spending) on infrastructure, education, etc. What stimulates the economy is money in the hands of middle and lower income people. More money in the hands of the wealthy stimulates nothing but their greed reflexes.

        • George E

          Jeff,

          I hope you’re wrong about future Republicans. That’s why we have the Tea Party, to keep establishment Republicans on their toes. It’s too bad the Democratic Party doesn’t have someone like the Tea Party to keep them “honest and responsible.”

          I agree that austerity by itself will not stimulate the economy. Other things have to be done to get people buying and companies producing. However, austerity in the absence of those other things is better than spending money we don’t have in the absence of those other things, especially if the alternative is to buy things we don’t need or paying higher than market prices for things we do need. For those who think Keynesian economics really work, I’ll surprise you and agree. However, Keynesian economics is so inefficient that we’d usually be better off doing nothing than that, especially if you consider the debt acquired to generate the few jobs that are created this way. I also agree that one key measure of whether the economy is working or not is whether consumers are spending. The problem is, if you simply give each consumer money from the federal treasury to prop up the economy, you can’t get the economy running on its on that way, so you have to continue giving consumers money this way to keep the economy moving. To get the economy growing on its on, consumers have to buy because they see more value in the products/services available to them than those they’ve been buying. Businesses create this value by bringing new products/services to market that they think will generate profits and win market share for them. Customers buy these new products/services when they find out they receive more value than they get from the old products/services they’ve been buying. Businesses hire workers to help develop these new products/services, and later to make and market these new products/services when customers start buying them. Businesses create profits that they need to incentivize them to make new investments when their costs are below their sales revenues. There are many things that create costs for businesses, but “red tape” (regulations), taxes, and cost/availability of money do play a significant part in this, especially for small businesses where most new jobs are created. The government can play a role in growing the economy by keeping regulations (red tape) and taxes simple and to a minimum and doing what it can to provide reasonable financing. This is the way to get the economy growing and generating new job growth.

          Even though Keynesian economics is an inefficient way of stimulating the economy, some things are worse than others for the government to spend our money on. Infrastructure that’s under the responsibility of the federal government that needs to be updated or maintained is a better expenditure, in general, than hiring more government workers and raising salaries of those workers. Giving our money away may be the worst expenditure of all.

          The government can’t grow the economy to any great extent because it doesn’t create real value to any great extent, which is the life blood of a growing economy. Besides, if you really wanted to grow the economy why wouldn’t you do whatever you can to get the $13 trillion private sector economy growing rather than “investing” more money in the $3 trillion govenment sector. This way you can not only take advantage of the size difference but the private capital that’s already sitting on the sidelines without creating any additional federal debt.

  • http://lfb.org/today/how-the-world-will-change/ Mark-Edward

    Mr. Root, how much money did the Romney Criminal Organization pay you to make this decision? You’ve sold out, I just wonder how much it cost? Your “reasons” are pathetic and illogical, so it must be a money issue.

  • http://twitter.com/dianalehua Diana Lehua (@dianalehua)

    NO, I will not vote for someone who is in favor of the NDAA, Federal Reserve, more war, and more spending (cuts to future spending that future Congress does not have to honor is the same as no cuts).

    If the Libertarian Party can get a certain % of votes, they will have access to Federal campaign money, which will make less available for the corrupt 2-party candidates. Former 2 x Governor of NM Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson for me.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Diana: Perhaps Gary Johnson will give you his cell phone number. Then, as the economy collapses during the second Obama administration, you can call him and lament about ‘what could have been’. As sharia law slowly infiltrates U.S. courts, you can call him, and lament about ‘what could have been’. As medicine and medical treatment becomes increasingly more difficult to obtain, you can call him and lament about ‘what could have been’. As fuel and food prices skyrocket, you can call him and lament about ‘what could have been’. I’m sure he would take your calls.

      • http://twitter.com/dianalehua Diana Lehua (@dianalehua)

        The economy is going to collapse no matter which of the two sock puppets is elected. Neither will stop the Federal Reserve printing press.

  • JustAmused

    GALT while you try to convince the folks here of your perfection maybe you should try a little proofreading YOURSELF!

  • Kathy Greene

    Leading Libertarian??! I never heard of him — and I became a Libertarian, sitting in Murray Rothbard’s living “area” (his living room was turned into a massive library..) and listening. This Wayne character? Obviously, Romney (pro-Fed Reserve; pro-war; pro TSA and NDAA; pro Govt health control; pro- fascism; anti freedom; anti Constitution; New World Order shill) needs someone to “draw” the Libertarian vote. Granted, some very ignorant will follow. But most Libertarians are smarter than that. They know that we have a one party system designed to LOOK like two parties so that people THINK they have choice. Romney would not be the Republicrat candidate if he was not owned by the Powers that Be. A vote for either of those parties is a stamp of approval- or at least that is how it will be interpreted. It is time to take down BOTH parties. -Kathy

  • Ms.Young
  • Mr. Wonderful

    There is no difference between Obama and Romney. They are two wings of the same corporate bird. Both were elected by Wall Street, not We the people. Wake up people. Vote Libertarian or die under the corporatocracy boot. OBAMA AND ROMNEY ARE THE SAME. Wayne, you are a fool.

  • Mr. Wonderful

    Romney will have america is perpetual false wars forever. He is nothing more than a tool for Wall Street and the Military Industrial Complex. Endless war and theft of resources from brown people worldwide. Romney is a true Roman barbarian. Invade, plunder, and steal resources from other nations. That’s the American way. Remember Iraq?

  • You Love Yourself Way Too Much

    Wayne Allyn Root seems like nothing more than a long winded narcissist.

    Come to think of it, this website seems to be full of narcissists.

    You really aren’t all THAT important.

    The ones who will disagree with my comment and get upset are suffering from NPD: Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    • macgyver1948

      You Love Yourself Way Too Much… Gee, if you put it that way how can I disagree with you, LOL….

  • azbob

    I won’t be joining you in voting for Romney. I’m encouraged to see that many commenters agree with me. Anyone who thinks that Romney is going to change the direction of this country is a fool. You can play the battered bride running back to embrace her abuser if you want but that’s not for me.

    • George E

      Azbob,

      Here’s the way I see it. Romney may or may not change the direction of the country. Obama definitely won’t change the direction of the country. One of these two is going to be our next President. I’m voting for Romney because I don’t think we can afford another 4 years of Obama.

      • Jeff

        How come no one asks Romney if he’s better off than he was in January 2009? His portfolio has likely doubled in value, at least. Of course, with all his foreign holdings it’s hard to say for certain, but he probably didn’t have more than a few million in any Greek banks. Just guessing because his finances are as murky as he’ll make our rivers when he guts the Clean Water Act.

        • George E

          Jeff,

          I thought we were going to try to be civil and reasonable in our comments. I think you know your comments here are unreasonable and for the most part irrelevant to this election. Do you really have a sincere question or concern that I might be able to address or do you want to just push more unfounded accusations from the Obama campaign?

          • Jeff

            Romney’s the one asking the question, so I don’t see why it can’t be asked of him. Unless that’s unfair. Romney seems to like to rule certain topics out of bounds. He should have been a soccer referee. Obama’s a socialist, but plutocrats have done quite well in his administration. I think it’s a valid point.

      • macgyver1948

        George E… I would stand by and defend your choice to vote for Romney over Obama because that is the American thing to do. I wouldn’t have America any other way even though I so very much disagree with your choice for many reasons.

        • George E

          Thanks.

  • sjbbouton

    I actually feel more optimistic now about November. Wayne Allyn Root is one of the few Libertarians that I actually respect, and now to hear him come out like this. Well, he’s right. We cannot survive another four years under Obama. Romney’s not perfect. But what is important are his strengths.

    • actual socialist

      Exept that romney has NO strengths

  • http://www.facebook.com/wrjnicholson William R Nicholson

    Thank You Wayne ! This Truly Is A Time To Bring All Hands On Deck ! You Words And The Spirit And Drive Are A Inspiration To Us All ! I Live In A Area Of Georgia That Is Hurting Tremendously And I Have Felt The Vibes Coming Off People Here . They Will Not Vote In Droves For obama Based Only On Skin Color . They Have Finally Decided To Get Off The Plantation. The Smell Of Victory Is About To Enter Our Nation . Thx Again.

    • swampfox

      same way in jax fla,every where you go in jacksonville,from grocery stores to food joints,
      I hear folks saying ovomit needs to go,white,black,even Hispanics can’t stand him.
      jacksonville has never been a libral city anyway,to many of us traditional bible beleiving patriotic
      good ol boys there,we in north Florida are still traditional southerners and hence we all pretty
      much despise ovomit for his Marxist socialistic garbage.
      I have heard folks all over say ovomit is a sack of crap.
      you just wait till November,them polls are b.s,there is a seething resentment boiling,it just don’t
      make the news,ovomit. is good as gone,
      keep praying that god gets him out,pray for our nation,loose a blessing on romney,prayer will prevail over this godless heathen and the libral perversion,
      ROMNEY 2012

      • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

        While you’re prayin’, remember to register and to vote…

  • jozie jane

    Los Angeles rocker Chris Holly comes out on the campaign trail Mitt Romney “America Street” (video) http://youtu.be/PiPYv4NIOEg

  • Pingback: Why This Ex-Libertarian is Voting Mitt Romney « CITIZEN.BLOGGER.1984+ GUNNY.G BLOG.EMAIL

  • http://www.facebook.com/SRMMEDIA Jay Tea

    You can’t be a libertarian and endorse Romney .. It’s like saying you are a Vegan then you eat bacon…. Makes no sense. You are and never have been a libertarian ….. The GOP has to be punished .. They have to see that when they cross us that they get defeated ….. supporting them only encourages their bad behavior……

    You are a sell out a traitor and Obama is no more a danger than Romney .. Besides only 4 of Obama left…. If we elect Romney it will be 8 years of Tyranny , Fascism and erosion of civil liberty…

    NOPE NOT ME

    I will sleep well very well at night knowing I did not support EVIL…

    • macgyver1948

      Jay Tea…. WOW, very well written and unexpected. The GOP is controlled by forces we have to defeat. I am leaning Left and I see some differences and similarities between Obama and Romney as I see Obama as the lesser danger. For one, Obama is not nearly as bought and paid for as Romney and Ryan are. For those of us who choose to vote for either of them we choose between the differences between their views on Capitalism. I am not at all very wealthy so my choice is very clear for me but if a very wealthy person was running as a Dem or GOP and he/she wasn’t so entirely for the wealthy and the big corporations/Banks I would consider him/her.

      • George E

        Macgyver,

        You’re wasting your time. Libertarians like this are solid in their determination to vote for the Libertarian candidate even though he has no chance of winning this election.

        I don’t think you’ve got any real basis in fact to paint Romney as an aloof rich guy that was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and has no understanding of middle America. He was born to a middle class family. His father was not well educated but did work hard and eventually got promoted in his work to eventually become the CEO of American Motors, and later became the Governor of Michigan. When he died, Mitt inherited a lot of money because by that time his family had become pretty well off. But, Mitt donated all of his inheritance to charity. He didn’t need it because he had worked hard and done well in his own businesses. From what I can tell, Mitt comes from a pretty main stream American family that worked hard and did well for themselves. Isn’t that the American dream that we wish for everyone? On the other hand, you can’t honestly say that Obama comes from a typical American family and/or upbringing, can you? What makes you think he can understand and relate to middle America? I for one, don’t think he has a clue, regardless what he says. Look at what he does.

      • marvs2

        Macgyver – If you vote for Obama, you will no longer have to worry about who’s rich or not, because the new United Socialist Government of America will own all of our property and distribute it as they see fit, to whomever they like. You’re really blessed when you have God-fearing Capitalists running your government rather than Socialists or Radical Muslims who believe that they are our God!

        • macgyver1948

          Marv2… You are very entitled to your opinion of Obama but I just do not see any reality in it.

          • Jeff

            You were much kinder than I was going to be. How can someone that stupid operate a computer?

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Kinder is easy until there is reason not to be… Kinder is more comfortable too. I said what I felt at that point and I wondered how you might have responded to him, LOL….

          • Jeff

            I have little patience for people who have nothing to add to the conversation but feel they must vent their spleens with uninformed opinions involving socialism and the end of the country as we have known it.

        • actual socialist

          Hey man do us all a favor will ya? next time your shrink gives you a perscription TAKE IT

  • Timothy Crenshaw

    I find the head in the sand perspective of the Liberals and the Independents here to be sad. These persons who refuse to accept the unassailable truth of Obama’s policies ending the American way of life are truly tragic. The shock at what their ‘good intentions’ have done will probably kill them down to the last. There are some independents who are at least honest about their intentions. They are perfectly happy selling out America so they can rebuild it after Obama destroys.

    I do not care what your political views are you cannot argue with irrefutable economics. When you print money to support debt while at the same time you are increasing that debt you create absolute, unequivocal economic destruction. Ask the English about the ‘Winter of their Discontent’ when the British pound lost its place as the world reserve currency. The American dollar is already being replaced in a case by case basis in world wide trade agreements. Obama’s flat out refusal to have a budget in his Presidency so that he can make executive expenditures and create the end of our currency is treason. His attack on our first amendment rights are a precursor to his total destruction of it which he needs to make sure he finishes destroying our currency and way of life before enough persons can speak out against him to stop him. He using divisive politics and inspiring Muslim aggression in order to build up enough fear and hatred to help him win the election so that he has the time he needs to finish ending America as a nation.

    Romney, no matter what arguments you try to use against him, is not suborning Muslim terrorist attacks against our country and he is not attacking our first amendment rights so that there cannot be an outcry against him should his policies follow Obama’s as so many here suggest. Romney is not going to willingly see the destruction of the American dollar. If Romney can keep delaying that end of our culture crisis, then perhaps there will be time to vote for an independent. Having time we could create a new party for personal liberty and fiscal responsibility so all Americans can have a place to turn away from two bad choices we now have to face.

    If you want a country at all then vote for Romney now and start a grass roots movement now for the next election to make sure the Independent candidate gets on the Presidential ballet the right way. Get enough votes in ALL 50 States to get the Independent party represented on the ballot nationally in the beginning. Then we will have an Independent party that has a chance to really make a difference.

  • Jared

    If he’s voting for Mitt Romney and he’s joining the GOP then he’s not a Libertarian. Plain and simple.

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  • Vigilannie

    Read http://loyaltoliberty.com/?p=1404 Alan Keyes has got it right!!!

  • John W

    So sorry to see that Mr. Root is now drinking the Kool-Aid and supporting a champion of gov’t. “health” care and gun control, and a v-p candidate (Ryan), the fake “fiscal conservative” who voted for TARP, the bailouts, etc. etc. Write in Ron Paul, and let the GOP know once and for all that they can fool us no longer. They lied, cheated and broke the law in order to get their establishment candidate in place; if Romney is elected there will be little substantive difference between his and Obama’s administrations, especially as regards respect for our Bill of Rights. I don’t know about you, but to me, ersatz “prosperity” without the true liberty in which to enjoy and encourage it is worthless.

    • George E

      John,

      Write-in Ron Paul’s name, or anyone else, or don’t vote at all. At the end of the day you’re going to have to live with either Obama or Romney as our next President. If it truly doesn’t make any difference to you which one is elected, no problem. However, if it does, even a little, you might want to rethink your plan of writing in another person’s name.

    • macgyver1948

      John W.. In many ways I agree with you. There are some similarities between Obama and Romney and I trust Romney less than Obama in so many ways. Ryan is a big phony too. But the things you say “I don’t know about you, but to me, ersatz “prosperity” without the true liberty in which to enjoy and encourage it is worthless” is so very true, liberty and the Freedoms are a top must. Phony (ersatz) is never good.

      I just do not see Ron Paul getting enough right-in votes and there are things about him and his son I do not care for as well.

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  • Stacey Zuckerman

    Well, all I can say is that you are full of [expletive deleted] TO THE FIRST DEGREE!! President Obama did not get the US into the trouble it is in now if you can face the truth here it is.
    President Bush back to President Washington are responsible for the state the country is in. Please go to the http://www.halliburtonwatch.org and read what Bush and his cronies did ripping the US off while our men and women was giving their lives fighting a war Bush never meant to take to Osama Binladden and Al Qaeda. Why, because he is friends with the family. He let the them leave the US before the FBI or CIA could question them. To me that is TREASON!!! Wayne you are a poor excuse for a human being.

  • http://jdkabc.blogspot.com John Kennard

    What was your response to the deliberate wrecking of the world and US economies via the Oil Bubble of 2006-8, and its being dropped down the military, prosecutorial, legislative and journalistic “memory holes” since?

    http://jdkabc.blogspot.com/2011/08/imtob.html

    Did you rush to vote for Obama?

    (I wasn’t going to vote for either party out of outrage at the Oil Bubble and the bipartisan silence thereupon, got talked into voting for Obama on the off-chance that he meant his talk about “change”–and got LARRY (“Commodities Futures Modernization Act”/”Derivatives don’t need regulation”) SUMMERS as chief Presidential economic advisor . . . .)

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  • marvs2

    We need to distribute this article to all those we know who are thinking of voting for Obama or any third party candidate. Anyone who reads or listens seriously to this Wayne Root article can vote as they think is proper and correct. But those who refuse to read or listen to this article and then support Obama cannot be considered a concerned voter.

  • http://jdkabc.blogspot.com John Kennard

    I find it hard to take any defender of “capitalism” seriously who refuses to see that capitalism and plutocracy are two different things and that the latter that is our real problem today and for the last thirty years, but, of course, the extremists of both Left and Right have vested interests in confounding capitalism and plutocracy . . . .

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      JK: The last thirty years? That would take us back to 1982. You can put whatever label you want on that period, but I would call it fantastic. The malaise of the Carter administration was two years behind us, and people were making money without even trying. Those who really tried were making piles of money. Obama could be President for forty more years (President for Life Obama) and we wouldn’t see an economy like the eighties. If that was extrremism, sign me up! I would love to experience an economy as good as thirty years ago, and that’s why I’m voting for Romney.

  • http://jdkabc.blogspot.com John Kennard

    “[P]eople were making money without even trying. Those who really tried were making piles of money.”

    While the national and State debts exploded; the modal family had to become a two-wage-earner family just to tread water; we started counting the military in order to fake employment figures; the movement of manufacturing out of the country to evade labor laws, labor-, consumer- and environment-safety laws, and taxes, to quite deliberately exploit the oppression of workers and devastate the environments of other countries, and of course above all to destroy tax-bases and public services including above all education all across America, exploded; and, oh, yeah, above all, ABOVE ALL ELSE, the major money-making activity in America became “financial services”, epitomized in the carefully-uninvestigated / -prosecuted S&L and banking scandals.

    Your idea of a sound economy is far from mine.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      JK: “…..two wage – earner family just to tread water” you wrote. That may describe your situation in the eighties, but it certainly doesn’t describe mine, and it doesn’t describe the situation of any of my friends. “Exploit the oppression of workers” you wrote. That sounds like loser talk to me. I don’t know what you were doing in the eighties, but perhaps you chose the wrong career path. If you didn’t like the eighties, you’re going to hate the next sixteen years. I just saw the Presidential debate. Get used to saying PRESIDENT ROMNEY for the next eight years, and PRESIDENT RYAN for the following eight years.

  • ableton

    “Why America’s Leading Libertarian Is Endorsing Mitt Romney And Joining The GOP”???
    Last I heard, Gary was still the leading libertarian and got my vote earlier today. At least he stuck with principle and not crossing party lines because he fell for the Rove doctrine.

    • Jeff

      You gotta love Karl Rove getting beat – even if you were for Romney!

    • MikeR

      ableton: Karl Rove didn’t get beat, America got beat. Rove walked away millions of dollars richer. What did your vote for Johnson accomplish? It was just one more vote for Obama. Save your current electric bill. Save your next grocery bill. Two years from now when you’re payiing much more for electric, gas, groceries, and everything else, you will see what you accomplished with your vote for Johnson. Romney was uniquely qualified to be president. He could have brought us back to prosperity. You are an idiot.