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Stupid Presidents: How America Blew-Up The Middle East

March 16, 2011 by  

Stupid Presidents: How America Blew-Up The Middle East

(Part one of a two-part series on U.S. Presidents and the Middle East)

For more than four decades United States Presidents have made a mess out of the Middle East. Now the region is boiling over. Americans face $4 per gallon gas. In the wake of all this I thought it is a legitimate question to ask: Why has every President since Lyndon Johnson been so utterly stupid when it comes to the Middle East?

I don’t want to speculate at what is at the root of nearly a half century of incompetence, so instead of spewing a conspiracy theory I decided to just grade the last five Presidents when it comes to their handling of the region.

Beside each President I give a grade. Notice the marks fall progressively until I get to our current President, Barack Obama. I would be delighted to get your feedback on what you think of my grades and how you would mark our recent Presidents when it comes to the Middle East.

Ronald Reagan — C+. I would love to give Reagan a higher grade. After all, he used the U.S. Navy to put Libya in its place, ordering two F-14s to shoot down two Libyan jets in August 1981. He cultivated solid relationships with oil producers like Saudi Arabia that brought the inflation adjusted price of oil to its lowest levels since the 1960s. Yet I can’t give Reagan sterling grades for his Mideast policies.

First he put U.S. soldiers in harm’s way in Lebanon in 1983. The end result was 241 American servicemen killed by truck bombers. Guards posted outside the barracks could not stop the Islamic jihad terrorists because they were under strict orders to have no magazine inserted and no rounds in the chamber of their weapons.

Reagan also looses points for not bringing justice to Moammar Gadhafi after his Libyan agents blew-up Pan Am flight 103 killing all 259 on board and another 11 on the ground in December 1988.

Then there is the fact that Reagan armed Saddam Hussein to the teeth to oppose Iran in a war that lasted eight years. Later administrations would argue that the Iraqi dictator menaced the world with weapons of mass destruction (WMD). That turned out to be untrue, but whatever arsenal Saddam had came from the billions of dollars in aid and technology that was provided by the Reagan administration.

On August 18, 2002, The New York Times wrote:

"A covert American program during the Reagan administration provided Iraq with critical battle planning assistance at a time when American intelligence agencies knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical weapons in waging the decisive battles of the Iran-Iraq war.”

Reagan also doesn’t score well because of his guns for hostage deal with Iran; that he “forgot” about. When he was pressed on the issue—because it might have meant that he had broken the law—Reagan sounded like the kid who tells the teacher that the dog ate his homework.

George H.W. Bush – C. Some of you might think that Dubya’s dad should get a solid A. After all, he launched Desert Storm, an overriding victory of Coalition Forces that drove Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait and kept a lid on oil prices.

But you might also remember that it was under Herbert Walker’s leadership the U.S. completely missed the fact that Iraq not only had aims on dominating the Persian Gulf—under which sat two-thirds of the world’s conventional oil reserves—but that U.S. intelligence services didn’t notice that Iraqi tanks and troops were massing for invasion of Kuwait.

Then there was the entire lying to the American public by the Bush I administration to justify the war. It started off well with telling the truth—a crazed dictator like Saddam could not control the world’s energy supply. But when the Left leaned on Bush’s argument (which was a great one), his administration changed the story that America had to oppose Saddam because he was the next Hitler. Nobody believed that. So Bush said that Saddam had to be stopped because Iraqi troops were killing Kuwaiti babies in their incubators. It was an incredulous lie, but America got behind him as if he were Franklin Delano Roosevelt leading the nation into World War II.

Operation Desert Storm turned out to be a hiccup when it comes to U.S. wars. The ground war lasted 100 hours. Yet Bush—when he had Saddam on his knees and was able to promote U.S. policies in throughout the Middle East—did a most incredible thing: He stopped advancing U.S. forces at the Iraq border.

Bill Clinton — D: During Clinton’s eight years in office the Middle East was a relatively stable place. The Clinton administration made some important strides in the peace process with Israel and its neighbors. We cannot forget that during the Clinton Presidency cheap oil kept flowing from the region unimpeded.

But none of that can excuse the fact that more than anyone, Clinton was responsible for 9/11. He not only failed to recognize the growing extremism of Islam but he failed to heed warnings that were given to him about Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida which by most accounts Clinton saw as a rag-tag group that created no real threat to the United States.

If Clinton’s mind had been on al-Qaida rather than the Monica Lewinsky scandal, for which only he was responsible, bin Laden would have long ago been dead and most of the world would not know his name.

Following 9/11, NBC News reported that the Clinton administration had multiple opportunities to either kill or capture bin Laden but failed because they did not take him or his organization as a serious threat.

George W. Bush — F: I could write a book on how Bush the younger made a mess of the Middle East and only touch on his administration’s mismanagement of the region. (I say his administration because so much of the blame should go to former Vice President Dick Cheney, former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and former Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz who were the architects of the war against Iraq).

I don’t even hold 9/11 against President Bush. But there are two blunders he should be accountable for:

  1. The failure to kill and capture Osama bin Laden.
  2. Launching the war in Iraq with questionable if not downright untruthful intelligence of WMD and with no end-game in sight other than a vague notion of spreading democracy throughout the Middle East (we can see how that has panned out).

So far the U.S. military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq have cost the lives of more than 5,900 American service men and women. Yet the excuse that the Bush II administration made for not going after bin Laden with “boots on the ground” was they didn’t want to incur heavy U.S. casualties.

Bush compared 9/11 to Pearl Harbor. Yet Roosevelt mobilized an entire nation to fight the Axis in response to Pearl Harbor. The Bush II administration made strafing bomb runs over bin Laden’s lair. There was no massive drop of infantry as one might have expected. Instead, agents of the Central Intelligence Agency were sent over with trunks full of cash so they could hire mercenary warlords.

Instead of finishing off al-Qaida, Bush committed most of the U.S.’s full military might against Iraq. No question Saddam Hussein was a bad man. But was he any worse than Moammar Gadhafi? Time will tell but what we do know is that while Bush was prosecuting the war against Iraq, his administration was instrumental in lifting sanctions on Libya.

Nearly one decade after 9/11, U.S. forces are still on the ground in Iraq. That country is rife with corruption and has become a hotbed for terrorism directed against the United States. And we are still fighting what some think is a losing war in Afghanistan.

Barack Obama — F: I would have thought it impossible for any President following George W. Bush to make a bigger mess of the region. Yet Obama has done so, and he has done it in spades. And Obama has been in office just over two years.

Next week I will tell you why I think that when it comes to the Middle East and Islam, no President has been worse than Obama.

Yours in good times and bad,

John Myers
Editor, Myers’ Energy and Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • Devasahayam

    Hold on Myers, on your gradings of Reagan (whom I didn’t like, due to the combination of his 1986 amnesty of 3 million malfeasant aliens, and his implementation of the Canada-US Free-Trade treaty which later morphed to NAFTA due to Clinton’s decision to include our FUBAR southern neighbour Mexico) and Jorge Bush Sr.; the inclusion of Pan-Am 103 (the incident occurred at close to the f@g-end of RW’s term, and it was unlikely that the pieces would have all been in place by 1989/01/20).

    So, I would give them following:
    (*) Reagan, C+ (even with exclusion, he doesn’t rise any)
    (*) Bush Sr., C- (inclusion of Lockerbie)
    (*) Clinton, D
    (*) Bush Jr., F+/D- borderline (credit due to US intel uncovering A.Q. Khan’s rogue nuclear-sales ring)
    (*) 0bama, F- (that was as low as I could assign)

    • meteorlady

      Mu father worked at immigration during the amnesty. Most received their “legal” status illegally. They were not what they claimed to be, had false papers and then brought in another 1.3 million relatives.

      Regardless, Reagan was under pressure from the Democrats who PROMISED to seal the borders and rewrite our immigration laws to stop anchor babies. They did not do this once Reagan signed the bill.

      • Ret

        We never learn do we. Thanks for your comments.

      • WayneT

        That is just like the Nazi Democrats, say one thing and do the opposite. You just can’t trust them. This is more the reasos we need good responsible people that we can trust within our government.

        • http://FoxNews Oldman

          I think it’s more than just being stupid, which most of their Administrations were, but all of them were afraid of the Arabs. We could not make any policy that would upset them. Look at our treatment of Israel all these years. Best friend we have, and a brave little country. We have not backed them for fear it would upset the balance of power in the mid-East. Huh? When has it ever been balanced?

          • SteveB

            Truth be told, Oldman….truth be told.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Hey Oldman:

            “Look at our treatment of Israel all these years. Best friend we have.” Up intil Little Barry the facsist Kenyan we have pretty much been behind Israel. Sometimes more than others.

            They are God’s chosen and will survive with, or without, the U.S. The real question is: Will we survive without them? I think not. We turn our backs on Israel, God Almighty will turn His back on us.

      • BigBadJohn

        Your statement does not even make sense “They did not do this once Reagan signed the bill.”

        Congress writes bills, the senate modifies it the way they see fit and the LAST thing that happens is the president signs the bill into law.

        So do you really mean Reagan caved??????

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        That was one of the times Reagan got shookered by America’s Communist Party. He should have refused to sign the agreement until the conditons were met. He knew to NEVER trust communists.

    • Jovianus

      Interesting.

      Reagan kills 230 Marines, sends a birthday cake and trades with an avowed enemy of this nation, gives intel, chemmies, and techy to Sammy Hussein. Bush I goes to war with Sammy, leaves Sammy in place, arms depostic regimes to the teeth, and abandons the anti taliban fighters to be sacrificed. Bush II is a bloody fiasco any way one looks at it, including ignoring bin laden even though warned by Clitnon. They all three had oil spikes which were not market driven and which never really came down and they all three had energy policies geared to enriching the oil shieksdoms and oil magnates…leaving us vlunerable in national security.

      Clinton maintained a balance and peace, kept the lid on Sammy, placed a total embargo on the Taliban regime, and went for bin Laden several times…the three most publicized the GOP and the Right railed against him for (let’s see..the rockets which abrely missed bin Laden in Afghanistan, the so-called ‘aspirin factory’ in the Sudan, and the second rocket attempt…all were derided by the GOP as political play and they riducled it all as ridiculous)

      Obama has kept the peace in the ME, is getting us out of Bush’s War in Iraq, has maintained a level head and kept us from intrfering in Egypt and Tunisia (which is working very well), Israel and her neighbors are closer than ever to a stable peace, Syria is minimlaized, Iran’s nuke program set back for years … and on and on ….

      And Clinton and Obama receive the low grades.

      Hmmmmm…the Right once again ignoring reality in trying to rewrite history. And you guys are going to fall for it again today. LOL

      • Conservative at Birth

        Why are you here?

        • Jovianus

          To give the truth CB…to give the truth.

          • busterggi

            Its a thankless job isn’t it?

          • chow

            So when is Obummer going to get us out of the ME? When is he going to close Gitmo? What’s he going to do with all the current unrest in the ME? I guess he’ll solve all that after he leaves office.

          • Always Right

            “To give the truth”? Jovial anus, (Happy A-hole. If ignorance is bliss this one is ecstatic) you wouldn’t know the truth if it jumped up and bit you in the Jovial anus.

          • KJ

            You wouldn’t know the truth if it bit you. Obama is the worst President in the history of the Republic. He is an anti-American marxist with strong religious underpinnings to Islam. Both the Bushes were not much better, and Clinton was too busy with Monica and defending the freedom of Moslems in Bosnia-Herzogovina to care. His administration put more pressure on Israel to cave in to unrealistic demands by Arafat than any other President besides Obama.
            Reagan helped Sadaam against Iran because the Iranian Revolution declared war on the US and took our embassy people hostage. It was felt by the state department that allowing the two nations to fight each other would reduce the tensions in the area overall. anyone with a brain could look at the way Iran is exporting all kinds of terror now and see that it worked.
            New grades: Reagan B+, Bush 1 F+,Clinton and Bush 2 -F; Obama – traitor.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You cant handle the truth pal, or you wouldnt be in here spewing your lies, re-writing history, and just out and out lying. Those who blew up the USS Cole had nothing done to them, as Clinton was a coward. Just as when they blew up the World Trade Center basement, he had lawyers to the work, instead of rolling up his sleeves and punching back. Had he taken action, 9-11 never, ever would have happened. And had he not cut our intelligence agencies in half and allowed these guys to move about unnoticed and set up their shops, again, 9-11 would have never happened. Clinton was a pacifist coward that made us appear weak to our enemies, and as a result they grew stronger and un-afraid of us, then attacked us. Thank your pacifist sissy Billy Bob Clinton for all this that has happened, and thank God George Bush was a man and stood up for us, and said enough is enough, and punched back. Now crawl back in your hole with your crack pipe, and go hide from reality, because you havent got a clue pal. Not a clue.

          • lumberjack

            If you will look back a bit, and open your mind to facts, you will notice that Clinton had several opportunities to take out Bin Laden.If
            he hadn’t been so wrapped up in his Lewinsky affairs, he would have seen that Bin Laden and the Taliban weren’t just a rag tag bunch of junk to be ignored….He could have prevented 9/11 and
            then Bush wouldn’t have it laid at his feet…as is everything that Obowow is guilty of.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          CB:

          I do not agree with much of anything Jovi says, but I am glad he, and others like eddie, are here. It would be rather boring if we all sat around and continually agreed. Their perspective gives rise to good give and take. And…… who knows they might even learn something in the process.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            What Jovi and eddie do, is bring to light to all, just how out of touch the left wing liberals are. They are not afraid to expose themselves for who they are, like Clinton, Obama, Kerry, Reid and the rest of them are. They continue to hide their true feelings, for fear we will all know they are nuts, where as youve got to give Jovi Anus and fast eddie credit for not trying to hide their stupidity behind a mask like their fearless leaders do.

      • Vigilant

        Jovi Anus, as usual, rewrites history to conform with his reductionist idea that the left has always been lily-white and the right is the embodiment of evil.

        Sorry for your sake, Mr. True Believer, history is considerably more complex than that. Only an utter fool such as yourself would subscribe to such sweeping notions, and it simply tarnishes anything you may try to offer as an argument.

        • Ed

          History is something to be learned from. It doesn’t serve any purpose to blame a president for something he did or didn’t do.

          Under our constitution, a president is supposed to execute policy which has been sanctioned and financed (by taxpayers, BTW) under legislation passed by Congress. His decisions are based on what his advisers (including the CIA) tell him about existing conditions and what the consequences of his actions will be.

          Sometimes his decisions prove to be right. For example, Bush 43 managed to drive Saddam out of Kuwait without tremendous cost to US taxpayers (he got money from the Saudis). If he would have gotten into the Iraqi mess in 1991, the US would have had to fund it ourselves – either by going deeper in debt or by (conservatives cover your ears) raising taxes.

          Lately, all executive department decisions are weighed against the cost to the taxpayer. If you use that criterion, Clinton was the best president in the past hundred years and whether he made good decisions or not don’t matter that much.

          Think only about cost to the taxpayers and forget about the consequences and cost to future generations! Vote GOP!

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I would much rather have my tax dollars being used to fight a war in Iraq and wipe out terrorist extremists who have vowed to kill us, then spend the millions we spent on Clinton lying in courtrooms about his involvement with who knows how many women. That was a real waste of money, as were the billions he blew lobbing bombs at unknown targets in Sarajevo aiding in their ethnic cleansing. A free Iraq, has led to Egypt wanting to be free, Iran rising up, and Tunisia wanting to be free. Damn that Bush bringing freedom to the world. Its all his fault.

      • Vigilant

        Jovi Anus says, “Clinton…went for bin Laden several times.”

        You may recall Sandy “Burglar’s” spiriting documents out of the National Archives and destroying them at the time that the 9/11 Commission was investigating the causes of the WTC tragedy. There can be no doubt that the documents he succeeded in destroying were the proofs that Clinton had Bin Laden in his sights on numerous occasions and did nothing to wipe him out.

        Sudan offered up Bin Laden to Clinton on a silver platter and Clinton turned them down. The whole 9/11 tragedy could have been avoided if Clinton hadn’t been a [offensive word removed]. And you have the unmitigated gall to blame Bush because he was warned by Clinton about Bin Laden. You are delusional, my communist commentator for the propaganda ministry!

        • Jovianus

          Vig …. what is it you disagree with in my post? The topic is requires a lot of detail for exactitude in this forum, but if there is an area you need more defined, I’d be glad to help out.

          • Vigilant

            You might begin by addressing my above posting, if you have any courage or facts, of which I suspect you have neither.

          • Jovianus

            Well…you mentioned one or two things. The ‘deal” the Sudan offered traing bin Laden. Ever bother to find out what the “offer” was? Ever bother to find out if they really had bin Laden to trade? Remmber…these were the folks with the WMD factory which they called an ‘aspirin factory’ and which the GOP raiiled about (never hear anything about that these days do we?)

            Clinton at least tried to kill bin Laden. Bush II never even tried. Obama, by reports coming out, has tried twice to hit him but both times binLaden was surrounded by civilians.

            What more can you expect of Clinton. He tried…many times. Then he warned Bush calling bin Laden the “most dangerous man to the US”. And all that was ignored…including Bush lifting the frippin’ embargo against the Taliban ! Talk about showing weakness and letting the Taliban think they could operate with impunity ! Then Bush ignored all signs leading to 9/11. And you have the gall to say it wasn’t his fault…..what a moron.

            So Sparky….anything else you want to be enlightened about?

          • Vigilant

            Jovi Anus:

            Well, I’ll give you an “A’ for courage and an “F” for facts.

            “Clinton at least tried to kill bin Laden. Bush II never even tried.”

            Both bald-faced lies. How can anyone, knowing the facts, make such egregiously false assertions? There’s only one answer: a blind fool who ignores the facts to support his weak premises. Might work with your leftie friends, it doesn’t work here.

            “Obama, by reports coming out, has tried twice to hit him but both times binLaden was surrounded by civilians.”

            You prove my point, and you tip your hand. That was the same excuse Clinton used when he had Bin Laden in the crosshairs. I guess, in your addled brain, the deaths of a few civilians by collateral damage is infinitely worse than the deaths of 3,000 people, and perhaps many more by allowing this evil criminal to continue plotting against us? Only a leftist, and someone intent on destroying this country, could make that claim or try to justify it.

            So, Manure-for-brains….anything else you want to be enlightened about?

          • Jovianus

            Let’s see…the onlyting you stated which was anything other than what I wrote was you disagreed with Bush II’s never having tried to snuff bin Laden. When did he try? oh wait…he didn’t ! He was busy with lying us into Iraq.

            Then you railed against Obama not wanting to snuff civilians … guess you don’t care about internatinal relations etc as well as killing innocents. you’d want us down to the level of terrorists.

            You’re a real piece of work.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You lied, plain and simple. Clinton was offered Bin Laden, didnt want him. Clinton caused 9-11, and he cause our enemies to rise up and attack us, by being weak over and over and doing nothing. Bush had his faults, like not reigning in spending, but the man stood up for us and made them stop punching us in the nose, whereas Clinton was too busy wearing Hillary’s panties and acting like a little girl to do anything about it. He was the worst excuse we have ever had for a president, and the United States is still paying for his mis-deeds, and will for quite some time. Thing is, as years pass, and more and more truth’s come out, more and more seems to be discovered as to just how rotten this guy was. And be assured, there is more to come. The guy was no good for America.

        • WayneT

          I just read in the news this am where Queenie, Hillary Clinton, has promised Eqypt tens of milion of dollars to help them out. Where do you suppose this money will be coming from? Yep! it’s your money and my money that we pay in taxes every year. Hillary won’t be paing it out of her bank account. Gee, I’ll bet we will have to borrow this money to do this as our country is broke. Excuse my language, but why in the hell is this woman giving our money to egypt? Can anyone put a rational spin on his for me? Come on Libs, this is you woman. Try and make some sense out of this where I can understand it.

          • Eddie47d

            John Meyers gave a fair analysis so far on our Middle East adventures. Obviously some things were left out because of space permitting. Jovianus added more to the issue and hardly needs to be called a communist commenter. Reagan really screwed up and Clinton did drop the ball and on more than one occasion. How are we going to fix Our stupid in dealing with the Middle East?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Well eddie, its obvious if its left up the democrats, the solution is to give Egypt a bunch of money. Read the posts above this. That is always the democrat solution, tax people more, get more money, and give it to people who dont deserve it. That is the whole mantra of the democrat party. And America is getting sick of it. Oh, and eddie, you better thank God for Reagan. If you cant recognize the best president and leader we have ever had, then no one can help you, because something isnt right between your ears.

      • Vigilant

        Jovi Anus: “Obama has kept the peace in the ME…”

        That was a joke, we must conclude. You obviously don’t read newspapers or tune in to current events.

        • Jovianus

          And what is it you specifically you disagree with? I don’t see us committing troops or air forces … I don’t see us establishing foeign bases to protect our interests, I don’t see any popular uprising which places our national security in danger any more than it was…be specific Vig….don’t try to gloss over the fact you are grossly uninformed…

          • Vigilant

            By your definition of “Obama has kept the peace in the ME,” you obviously must believe the ME is in a blissful state of harmony and contentment. Don’t try that Alinsky tactic of changing the meaning of what you said, which was, one more time, “Obama has kept the peace in the ME.”

            On the contrary, a powerful argument could be made that his disregard of the ME, his fawning over Muslim interests, his gap in vital intelligence that would have seen the crisis coming in Egypt, his appeasement of Iran, his snubbing of Israel, and the overall message he has sent to the world that he is a weak sister, have all contributed to the unrest there.

            So, in your myopic “mind,” failure to send troops is equated with keeping the peace? You’re worse than delusional, and perhaps should seek professional help.

          • Eddie47d

            Vigilant; American troops should never have been deployed to Egypt. What are you thinking?

          • Vigilant

            And who claimed that? Re-read Jovi’s comments and mine, then come back with a reasoned response.

          • Jovianus

            Vig…I’ll wait for your “powerful argument”. i won’t hold my breath as you never follow up with anything but a link to some wacked out wedsite that tells you what to think….

          • Vigilant

            If you would confine yourself to addressing facts instead of making sweeping generalizations, your postings might some day be taken with respect.

            How cute of you to dispense with URL research before you condemn all links to sites which might have an “inconvenient truth.” You’ve effectively said you’ll put your fingers in your ears and hum, rather than be exposed to something you don’t agree with.

            Not surprising at all.

          • r.p.

            arguing with this guy only brings u down to his level…. Not worth it!

          • Michael J.

            Emperor Jovianus,
            Saluto Flavius, do you get a warm and fuzzy feeling from assuming the title of a long dead Emperor? Isn’t it a bit unusual for a liberal progressive like yourself to be emulating one of the few Roman ruler’s of the time that tolerated Christianity? I don’t get it, won’t your komrades at Huff-Po be furious to find out that your mentor was a Christian-Hugger?

            But then again, Emperor Flavius Claudius Jovianus was not the typical Roman ruler, was he? By most accounts Jovianus was a second choice, the first contender declined nomination citing advanced years made him a poor choice. Of course word of this second stringer got to their opposition, the Persian King Sabur II, whom they were at war with and who subsequently attacked with even more ferocity because he sensed weakness on the part of the new in-experienced Emperor.

            The Persian King’s ploy worked, because Jovianus soon lost his nerve and sued for peace. (Now I am beginning to see why liberals might emulate this guy)

            Jovianus having lost the war, but won the peace agreed to withdraw from the five provinces beyond the Tigris annexed by Diocletian, and purchased with Roman blood. Thereby leaving to the Persians the fortresses of Nisibis, Castra Maurorum and Singara as well as a large part of Armenia. (The picture of what you see in this guy is becoming more and more clear now, Jovianus was like a first millenium Neville Chamberlain)

            Understandably this treaty was seen as a disgrace, the result of a weak and feeble emperor who could not bear the pressures of office.

            No sooner was Jovianus back on Roman soil, he began verbally condemning his predecessor Julian for Roman economic woes. (Now I’m really seeing the parelells)

            Jovianus sought urgently to get back to Constantinople, being well aware of just how insecure his position was as long as he remained away from the capital in the east. Particularly after his humiliating treaty with Sapor II.

            And so Jovianus left Antioch in mid-winter, seeking to make his way across Asia Minor (Turkey).
            But in the town of Dadastana on the border of Bithynia and Galatia he was found dead in his bed one morning. The accounts on his death vary, ranging from suggestions about poisonous fumes from the room’s fresh plaster, fumes from the fire or severe indigestion after having eaten too much.
            The reasons of Jovian’s death therefore seem unclear, though there is no real suggestion of a violent death.

            Jovianus died a degrace in an un-warrior like fashion.

          • Jovianus

            Your bio you pasted forgot to add…”ln a general edict of toleration, he established freedom for all forms of worship, even paganism, but forbade magical sacrifices, reintroducing the religious toleration proclaimed by Constantine in his Milan Edict of 313.”

          • Vigilant

            Michael J,

            Great catch!

            Jovianus dies a disgraceful death every time he posts here. Too bad he can’t recognize it.

          • Eddie47d

            Vigilant; You did say Obama”should have seen the crises in Egypt” and then you said there was a “Failure to send troops”. Your words so please explain why you said that.

          • Michael J.

            Jovianus,
            The point is that your name sake, your mentor was reviled and soon forgotten by the Romans which coincidentally runs parelell to the downfall of current government infestation. And furthermore, we don’t care to read your second generation hippie propaganda that you were spoon fed by your tie-dyed, tee shirt wearin commie parents when they weren’t busy burning there draft cards or burning their bra’s.

            Anyhow it’s game over for progressives now, time to head back into the closet from whence you came. Nov. 2nd signaled the turn of the page, now unions are dying, Nasty Nancy is compelled to fly amongst mere mortals and “That Ones” poll numbers are headed south faster than snow birds in winter.

            I HOPE you can CHANGE before you find yourself drowning in the water that your Messiah walks on.

          • Vigilant

            Eddie,

            Sorry for the late reply; I’ve been “out of pocket.”

            “Vigilant; You did say Obama”should have seen the crises in Egypt” and then you said there was a “Failure to send troops”. Your words so please explain why you said that.”

            The shortcomings of the American intelligence apparatus were evident when we either had no clue to the developments in Egypt, or Obama ignored the intelligence that did exist.

            The “failure to send troops” was quoting Jovianus when he used that to indicate that Obama had kept the peace in the ME. My contention was simply that “failure to send troops” is not the same as keeping the peace. In a turmoil that covers Northern Africa and the Arabian peninsula, plus the emirates and Yemen, he could hardly say that times in the ME are peaceful.

            I’m not aproponent of sending any troops at all to the ME.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Michael J,
            Now I have to stick up for Jovi!! I don’t think his mommy ever burned her draft card nor his daddy ever burned his bra!!!(that were too comfortable!)

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Thats the point Jovi Anus. We didnt see our national security being defeated when Clinton was in office, as the terrorist patiently set up 9-11. Of course, its a given, it was hard to catch them when Clinton had decimated our intelligence force and got rid of half of them. This enemy of ours, you obviously dont understand them. They dont roll up in mass with 200,000 troops and attack. They infiltrate and live in boxes, in holes in the ground, in sewers, in caves, in your neighbors house. In the mosque down the street they gather their weapons and armaments. Because you know, they are a peaceful religion, even though they use their mosques to hide weapons and terrorists in. You fail to understand who your enemy is Jovi Anus, and you fail, period. It is hard to understand why people like you live in America, and enjoy all our freedoms afforded us here, and yet you continually back the terrorists side with your words of affirmation to them. That is how they fight their war, using ill-informed people like you to help them, and you dont even know your doing it. But to those of us who know who our enemy is, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

      • Vigilant

        Jovi Anus: “Clinton maintained a balance and peace…”

        1993
        Jan. 25, Virginia, U.S.A. A Pakistani terrorist opened fire with AK-47 on CIA employees standing outside the building. Two agents, Frank Darling and Bennett Lansing, were killed and 3 others wounded.
        Feb. 26 – World Trade Center in New York badly damaged by a massive bomb by Islamic terrorists. The van bomb was planted in an underground garage and left 6 people dead and 1042 injured and almost � billion dollars in damage.
        Feb. 26 – A bomb exploded inside a cafe in downtown Cairo killing 3, 18 wounded, 2 U.S. citizens.
        July 5 – In 8 separate incidents, 19 Western tourists traveling in southeastern Turkey were kidnapped, including U.S. citizen Starger, after weeks in captivity, they were released.
        Oct – Killing of U. S. soldiers in Somalia.
        1994
        July 18 – 86 civilians killed and 300 wounded in bomb attack on Jewish social centre in Buneos Aires, Argentina.
        July 26 – Israeli Embassy in London is car-bombed, wounding 20.
        Air France Flight 8969 is hijacked to crash the plane in Paris but didn’t succeed.
        A small bomb explodes on board Philippine Airlines flight 434, killing a Japanese businessman.
        1995
        Jan. 22 – Islamic Jihad militants blow themselves up amid a group of soldiers near Netanya, killing 21. Operation Bojinka is discovered on a laptop in a Manila, Philippines apartment, in which Osama bin Laden was planning to blow up 12 planes as they flew to the U.S., plus kill the Pope.
        March 8 – Attack on US Diplomats in Pakistan.
        April 9 – Islamic Jihad suicide bomber attacks military convoy in Gaza, killing 7 soldiers and an American tourist.
        May 5 – Five foreign oil workers murdered by Islamic GIA terrorists in Algeria.
        June 26 – Assassination attempt made against Egyptian President Honsi Mubarak by Islamic radicals who ambushed his motorcade.
        July 4 – Six tourists, including two U.S. citizens taken hostage in Kashmir, India. Terrorists demanded the release of Muslim militants held in Indian prisons. On Aug. 13 the decapitated body of the Norwegian hostage was found with a note stating that the other hostages also would be killed if the group’s demands were not met. They were not and all other hostages were killed in 1996 by the terrorists.
        July 25 – Islamic terrorists explode bomb in metro station in Paris, France, killing 7 people and injuring 84.
        Nov. 13 – Car bomb exploded at US Army Office of the Program Manager for Saudi Arabian National Guard Modernization, in Saudi Arabia, killing seven, five of them U.S. citizens, and wounding nearly a hundred.
        Nov. 19 – Islamic radicals plant bomb in Egyptian embassy in Pakistan killing 17.
        Dec. 11 – 15 concurrent car bombings in Algiers kill 15 civilians and over 200 injured.
        1996
        Feb. 11 – Terrorists explode car bomb in Algiers killing 17. The following month, 2 more killed in another bomb and 10 are killed in a train ambush in western Algeria.
        Feb. 25 – A suicide bomber blew up a commuter bus in Jerusalem, killing 26, including 3 U.S. citizens, and injuring 80 others, among them another two U.S. citizens.
        April 19 – Eighteen Greek tourists were gunned down near the historic Pyramids in Egypt by Islamic terrorists aiming to destroy the country’s tourist industry.
        May – Osama bin Laden unites the Islamic Fundamentalists worldwide in their Jihad against Jews and Western Gentiles, such as al-Qaeda, Palestinian Authority, Hezbollah, Hamas, Mujahideen, using the Taliban’s organization to help fund the operations.
        June 25 – Terrorists explode a truck bomb next to a USAF Khobar Towers housing facility at Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killing 19 American servicemen and 515 injured including 240 U.S. personnel.
        Islamic terrorists attack tourists in Luxor, Egypt, killing 71 people, most of them vacationers.
        Aug. 26 – Sudan Airways A310 Airbus airliner hijacked en route to Jordan and diverted to England. British authorities negotiate with hijackers who release all the 13 crew and 180 passengers unharmed.
        Dec. 3 – A bomb exploded aboard a Paris subway train, killing four and injuring 86 persons, including a U.S. citizen.
        A terrorist opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the US, Argentina, Switzerland and France before turning the gun on himself.
        Dec. 23 – A car bomb in the Algerian capital, Algiers, kills three and injures 70 people in cafe near the port. Again a week later, a car bomb kills 28 people and injures 35 people. 3rd car bomb in the past two weeks, killing additional 13 people and injuring more than 250.
        1997
        Jan. 2 – Major cities worldwide and U.S. get letter bombs with Egyptian postmarks at newspaper bureaus in DC, New York, London, Riyadh, S.A., and Leavenworth, KN. Experts defused all but the 1 in London, injuring 2.
        Jan. 7 to 21st – Islamic terrorist rampage during these 14 days with car bombs and beheadings in Algiers, total of 238 dead, 139 wounded.
        Feb. 23 – Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State building in New York, killing 1 and wounding over a dozen visitors before turning the gun on himself.
        March 7 – Two killed in bus bomb attack in Beijing, China.
        April – Terrorists behead innocent civilians this whole month with a total of 272 murdered and over 100 injured. Knives, axes and chainsaws were used and many of the bodies were burned while still alive.
        Sept. 18- 9 German tourists killed when Muslims fire bombed bus in Cairo, Egypt.
        Nov. 12 – 2 Terrorists shot to death 4 U.S. auditors of a Texas petroleum company and their driver at a Sheraton Hotel in Karachi, Pakistan.
        Nov. 17 – 58 western tourists killed and 30 injured in gun attack at historic monuments in southern Egypt. 6 of the Islamic terrorists are killed in shoot out with police.
        1998
        Jan. 15 – U.S. Embassy bombing in Peru.
        Feb. 23 (Published) – A Statement signed by many Islamic Jihad Leaders from most Muslim countries, first by Sheikh Osamah Bin-Ladin: “…In compliance with God’s order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
        The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies–civilians and military–is an individual duty for every Muslim who can, in any country in which it is possible… We — with Allah’s help — call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded, to comply with Allah’s order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. Unless you go forth, Allah will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place.”
        Aug. 7 – Simultaneous bombs in US Embassies in Kenya, and Tanzania, heavily damaged by massive attacks. In the Nairobi attack 292 people were killed, including 12 Americans, and 5,000 injured. 10 people were killed and 86 injured in Tanzania incident for a total of 302 dead, 5086 injured within an hour.
        Aug. 25 – 3 people killed and 25 injured in bomb attack on Planet Hollywood restaurant in Cape Town, South Africa.
        Dec. 28 – 16 Western tourists kidnapped, 12 Britons, 2 U.S. citizens, and 2 Australians on the main road to Aden, Yemen. Four victims were killed during a rescue attempt the next day.
        1999
        Aug. 31 to Sept. 22nd – Russian apartment bombings kill almost 300 and injured 100.
        Oct. 31 – EgyptAir Flight 990 crashed off the U.S. coast of Massachusetts, killing all 217 people on board, including 100 Americans.
        Nov. 12 – Six rockets were fired at the U.S. and U.N. offices in Islamabad, Pakistan.
        Dec. – Millennium terror plots foiled as customs agents arrest a man smuggling in explosives. Plan to attack Los Angeles airport and other sites intercepted by CIA. Also Jordanian authorities foil a plot to bomb US tourists in Jordan, pick up 28 suspects.
        Indian Airlines Flight 814, en route to Delhi, India is hijacked, 1 passenger is killed. After negotiations with the Taliban, the hostages are released.
        2000
        The last of the 2000 millennium attack plots fails, as the boat meant to bomb USS The Sullivans sinks.
        Oct. 12 – A suicide boat exploded next to the U.S.S. Cole (guided-missile destroyer), blowing a hole 40 feet in diameter, killing 17 American sailors and injuring 39.

        Yes, Jovi, Clinton has a spotless record in fighting and defeating Muslim terrorism.

        • WayneT

          Vigiant, Jovi won’t understand any of this. You need an open mind to understand these things. Jlvia has a closed mind.

        • Eddie47d

          Vigilant and Wayne; What exactly could Clinton or any other President have done to avoid any of those events? Most were out of country and out of our reach. We can’t be everywhere at all times for that is impossible. Like most events in life that we are UNAWARE of we can only react and change things after the fact. It is like a car accident.They happen all the time even when they are avoidable. You never know what is going to happen when that car is driving the wrong way. Some may avoid the accident but the next guy get’s clobbered. I’m not sure why you would blame any President for events he had no control of. Clinton did drop the ball a few times but at least be fair.

          • Vigilant

            “What exactly could Clinton or any other President have done to avoid any of those events?”

            You want to talk bout 9/11? Had Clinton taken action and wiped Bin Laden off the face of the earth when he had more than one clear shot, 9/11 might have been avoided altogether. Strange how you give Clinton a pass, and then blame GWB for not seeing it coming.

            “Like most events in life that we are UNAWARE of we can only react and change things after the fact.”

            For once you are right. What “after the fact” steps did Clinton take to forestall the 9/11 catastrophe?

          • Eddie47d

            Vigilante; I did say” Clinton did drop the ball a few times” How is that giving him a free pass? I didn’t even mention GWB so that is two strikes out for you. Clinton was even denied access by the Republicans to go after Osama Bin Laden. So your half truth on that is weak. You demand facts from others but you slip on several occasions.

          • dave

            Clinton most certainly wasnt denied access by the republicans to go after osama bin laden . Get your facts straight! . Clinton had much more important things(escapades) to tend to than eliminating bin laden.

          • Vigilant

            Eddie:

            “Vigilante; I did say” Clinton did drop the ball a few times” How is that giving him a free pass? I didn’t even mention GWB so that is two strikes out for you. Clinton was even denied access by the Republicans to go after Osama Bin Laden. So your half truth on that is weak. You demand facts from others but you slip on several occasions.”

            If 3,000 people had not died on that awful morning, I would have said that Clinton “dropped the ball.” Tell those 3,000 dead and their surviving families and friends that it was just Clinton dropping the ball. His failure to take out Bin Laden when he had the chance, knowing how dangerous he was, is criminal if it’s nothing else.

            Clinton was never denied access by the GOP to get Bin Laden. You’re talking about the great work of that Democrat Frank Church, who castrated the CIA and made it a crime to target indviduals for assassination. Going after combatants on the field is not assassination, it’s the rules of war.

            As for you and Jovi Anus claiming that Bush never went after Bin Laden, it’s called the Afghanistan war.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Eddie, are you really that stupid? Have you seen these terrorist blow up our stuff lately? No, because Bush took the fight to them, and punched back. He created Homeland Security which flushed thousands of them out. That is the only way you stop them, you annihilate them, plain and simple. Are you not aware, they have vowed to kill us, and to die trying to kill us. Does that even register to you, what that means? It means they will not stop until they are dead or we cease to exist. So get the truth dummy, we must take them out, and take them out now, or they will keep killing and killing. Clinton didnt understand that, because he is a pacifist appeaser that wears his wifes skirts. Bush fully understood it, and started kicking their butts right and left. Unfortunately for all of us, the democrats have gotten in the way and gotten way off course, and are attempting to destroy the whole thing, just so they can point fingers some more, I mean you know, since they have no plans and offer no solutions. But these are just the facts eddie, the cold hard truth, something no one expects you or Jovi Anus to embrace, since obviously the truth is far, far from you both.

      • Vigilant

        Jovi Anus: “Clinton maintained a balance and peace…”

        And what do you call the first of the nation-building experiments with Kosovo? Clinton dragged NATO, kicking and screaming, into an unprovoked war with the Serbs in Kosovo, violating both international law and Article 5 of the NATO Charter.

        And for what reason? To divert attention from his Monica Lewinsky peccadilloes. It’s called “wag the dog.”

        • Jovianus

          Kosovo was genocide, plain and simple. Clinton got NATO involved…a European war should have Europeans involved don’t you think? And how many US servicement died in Kosovo? And how stable is it today? Hmmm…trying your revisionism again eh?

          • Vigilant

            Jovi shows his ignorant spin on reality once more.

            “Kosovo was genocide, plain and simple.”

            Yes, that could be, if you meant the ethnic Albanians were systematically assassinating every Serb official, from mayor up, in the province. Did you know that 95% of the Serbian nationals have still not returned to Kosovo?

            There’s absolutely no evidence that Serbia was trying to kill all Albanians in the province. If you have proof of that, ante up and tell us. You obviously don’t know the definition of the word “genocide.”

            “Clinton got NATO involved…a European war should have Europeans involved don’t you think?”

            That’s one of the most asinine statements you’ve ever made, and you’ve made a lot. Do you even know what Article 5 of the NATO Charter says? I doubt it, in fact I know it. Do you even know what NATO is? And if you can quote the provisions of international law that in any way justify the invasion of a soveriegn nation involved in a civil war with no threat to any other nation, have at it.

            You lefties don’t believe in repect for the rule of law, either nationally or internationally, do you?

            “And how many US servicement died in Kosovo? And how stable is it today? Hmmm…trying your revisionism again eh?”

            One combat death. What’s your point?

            Yes, Clinton made the province stable enough to continue what they were doing before we invaded them: arms smuggling and money laundering to support Muslim terrorist causes. Some great achievement.

            Sonny, I was working for NATO in Europe when that happened, so don’t try to revise a history about which you know nothing.

          • Eddie47d

            Come on Vigilant the Serbs were using civilians for target practice in Sarajevo and massacred 2,000 civilians at Srebrenica. That area was in major turmoil and it was the Serb mercenaries sponsored by the Serb government who were doing the killing.I didn’t even approve of this war but life is much better in that region now. I visited Croatia 4 years ago and those people said how happy they are that the fighting is over and things are back to normal.

          • Vigilant

            Eddie, I’m talking about Kosovo. When you’re ready to respond to my comments. I’ll engage in discourse.

          • Jovianus

            Vig…you seem to work for a lot of companies/government agencies. Any of them real ?

          • Vigilant

            Absolutely brilliant!

            Jovi even questions the existence of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization! George Orwell and Saul Alinsky would both be proud of you.

          • independant thinker

            Show us how many troups were from the US and how many were actualy from each European country participating.

          • Vigilant

            Jovi says, “Vig…you seem to work for a lot of companies/government agencies. Any of them real ?”

            “A lot of companies/government agencies?” I’ve never claimed a past employment with any companies/government agencies other than 24 years in the USAF and 14 years with NATO in Europe. If you’ve ever found me claiming anything else, I’ll become a Democrat.

            Typical lack of facts, to which we have become accustomed from such provocateurs as Jovi Anus. Why don’t you get into a discussion of the facts, rather than throw out this paltry crap for public consumption?

          • Vigilant

            independant thinker says, “Show us how many troups were from the US and how many were actualy from each European country participating.”

            Other than trying to change the subject, what does that have to do with the price of tea? I’ll not do research in an area that you can easily access on the internet; why don’t you tell us, and then tell us what significance it has to the violation of international law and Article 5 of the NATO Charter?

          • Vigilant

            BTW, I’ll save you the research on Article 5, which says,

            “The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

            Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.”

            Now, if you can tell me which NATO country was attacked in Kosovo, I’ll yield the point. Clinton had absolutely NO authority to go into Kosovo, period.

          • Jovianus

            You’re correct..Clinton didn’t have the authority or ‘right” as you put it except as an ally of NATO. The NATO countries decided that the genocidal slaughterhouse the region had become was endagnering the entire continent..as well as being downright abhorrent for any civilized country to accept within it’s continental regions.

            If you did work for NATO as you claim, then you know there was a real concern the conflict would spillover and minorities throughout Europe would have been viewed as free game for the hunt.

            Being a member of NATO didn’t mean we had to go into the conflict, but we could if we so wanted to join with the alliance. We so chose. One death (I believe it was a non combat death…though I may be mistaken)…utold thousands saved. And a strong regional alliance which we benefit from today.

            Not bad by any standard except a wacked right wing irrational one

          • Eddie47d

            Vigilante; My comment had everything to do with your comment and the war so don’t duck and cover.

          • Vigilant

            Sorry, Eddie, you talked about everything EXCEPT Kosovo.

          • Vigilant

            Jovi,

            “You’re correct..Clinton didn’t have the authority or ‘right” as you put it except as an ally of NATO. The NATO countries decided that the genocidal slaughterhouse the region had become was endagnering the entire continent..as well as being downright abhorrent for any civilized country to accept within it’s continental regions.”

            Jovi, methinks you doth protest too much; you’re really hitting the bottom of the barrel this time.

            How many times must you be told the truth? NATO never had any intentions of going into Kosovo until Clinton pushed them in. The US and Germany are the major funders of NATO, and Clinton used that as leverage to coerce them into agreeing.

            And, we are not “allies” of NATO, we are charter members and the largest financial backers of that organization.

            “If you did work for NATO as you claim, then you know there was a real concern the conflict would spillover and minorities throughout Europe would have been viewed as free game for the hunt.”

            “The conflict would spill over?” You’re truly delusional. The northern Balkans were already defeated. Kosovo is a little jerkwater Muslim terrorist-supporting enclave that had no potential whatsover to “spill over.” The spillover potential only occurred when Clinton & Co. invaded the province of the sovereign state of Serb-controlled former Yugoslavia.

            At that point, the real possibility existed that Macedonia would hop in to aid their Muslim brothers, and Greece was in a state of shock that the US was doing anything in that neighborhood. It could have resulted in Greek withdrawal from NATO, and they wouldn’t even allow goods to be transported to the troops over Greek land.

            “Being a member of NATO didn’t mean we had to go into the conflict, but we could if we so wanted to join with the alliance. We so chose.”

            Get it through your thick skull, one more time, that NATO was not by any means quickly agreeable to the proposition, they were drawn in by Clinton’s “wag the dog” tactic.

            “One death (I believe it was a non combat death…though I may be mistaken)…untold thousands saved. And a strong regional alliance which we benefit from today.”

            I already mentioned that single death above. How many hundreds or thousands are going to die in the future because the Kosovars continue to fund and support their Muslim terrorist brothers in other countries.

            Not good by any standard except a wacked left-wing irrational zealot who believes that shadow takes precedence over substance.

          • independant thinker

            Vigilant……….juovial anus claimed ” a European war should have Europeans” I was trying to get him to provide some facts to prove the europeans did or did not have the most troups involved in the action. Not that he ever will because he is long on talk but short on proof.

          • Vigilant

            independant:

            Please accept my apology. I misinterpreted your remark and thought it was meant for me (:-)

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            All Clinton did was spend a billion dollars lobbing bombs at unknown targets and helped with their ethnic clensing. That is about all that his regime produced from this. And the same things that were before, still are today there. Worthless, and a waste of money.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            jovi,
            you said it was genocide? then what was Rwanda??? 900,000 Rwandans murdered and Clintoon did nothing!!

      • american of 100% Sot descent

        You must be an Anti-Aemrican muslim!

      • http://none norm

        Jovianus.Your taking progressive koolaid.
        Obama is a traitor.
        Wait and see.
        He hates Israel and England.

      • Always Right

        Wow! this is an incredible re-write of the ME situation without a facts to be found anywhere. bamyy n mammy have “kept the peace in the middle east”???? Dude, Egypt just fell, Gaddafi is murdering his own people, Saudi’s just rolled into Bahrain, Christians are being murdered all over the ME, Iran is building nukes and killings its own people, Afghanistan is at war, Iran is feeding the terrorists in Iraq, and that is “peace”!?!? This is why I hate lefties. You should be rounded up and loaded in sea/land containers to be relocated to theose “peaceful” ME contries. You’re not fit to live in a free society. Like the rest of your species, you can’t be taught as your post shows that you’re incapable of retaining facts as well as being incapable of cogent thought. There’s no middle ground between good and evil, and you and yours are evil.

        • Ed

          “Egypt just fell….” Fell from where? A dictatorship that happened to be friendly to the US and willing to do business with Israel? We must continue to support Egypt with the funds we have been giving them since the Carter summit between them and Israel.

          Egypt is the largest Arab nation in the world. It is opting for democracy. It has enough weaponry to counter Gadaffi’s attempt to retain control of Lybia. It is willing to work productively (and profitably) with Israel.

          Egypt is important to the stabilization of the Middle East. If there is one place taxpayer’s money can be put to good use is to continue to support both Egypt and Israel.

          As for the rest of the trouble-spots in the Middle East, moving towards democracy and against control by unaccountable despots is the best way to move towards more stable governments willing to cooperate with their neighbors to solve mutual problems of overpopulation, climate change, food and water shortages, etc. It won’t happen overnight, but things are moving in the right direction.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Ed,
            Don’t sing the benefits of that treaty of Egypt quite yet. The people of Egypt are yelling to convert to muslim rule and if the Muslim Brotherhood gets ANY form of control, they have sworn to tear up that treaty!!!

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Your right on this one Eddie. Egypt didnt fall. They smelled the freedom they are seeing in Iraq, courtesy of Mr. Bush and the United States military, the freedom they have, and they want it to. People are seeing this over there and are rising up all over wanting freedom also, just as George W. Bush said he thought might happen. Its a nightmare for the democrats, as it makes Bush look good, and they just cant handle it.

      • http://www.therightwinger.com gary

        We should have killed Osama Bin Ladin, Saddam hussein, Ahmadinegad, Ghadaffi and arafat .. a long time ago. The radicals only know two things .. Strength and weakness .. we need to show strength always .. or we will be taken advantage of.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Jovi,
        Are you brain dead??? Clinton went after Binladen three times???? WHEN and WHERE??? He was handed binladen on a silver platter and turned him down as he had not done ANYTHING illegal against the US!!! (at least that’s HIS story!) The only thing Klintoon when in after was MONICA!!! Don’t be an idiot!!
        Oh, and show me where Reagan sent Chemical weaps to Saddam!!

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          eddie and Jovi Anus have proven over and over, to be nothing but spin monsters, and propaganda artists, saying things that are not even close to being true, and expecting us all to blindly believe them. Kind of like how those two believe the lies their fearless left wing liberal leaders tell them, and they blindly follow them over the cliff.

      • James

        Some of your comments are absolutely correct, but you seem to equate the fact that things were relatively stable (no major war) with specific things these presidents did. Perhaps you would tell all of us what SPECIFICALLY Obama has done to maintain the peace in the Middle East, other than bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia. He didn’t come up with the exit plan for Iraq – that was signed in August of 2008, before he was elected. I don’t quite agree that Obama has kept us out of Egypt and Libya, but at least he has not sent troops there, which is good. It would have been much better if he had kept his mouth shut rather than telling Mubarak that it was time for him to go. Only the Egyptian people are in a legitimate position to do that, and perhaps you haven’t noticed who is most likely to be gaining control of that country – our good friends the Muslim Brotherhood. Obama opposed the surge in Iraq, and has not had the decency to admit that it worked. Our getting involved there was a grade-A, bonehead move, but neither Obama nor the Democratic party (remember the 2006 election) has done a thing to improve or fix it. I don’t mean to say that there are easy solutions, there aren’t, but what is there didn’t come from Obama.

    • Bruce D.

      Reagan was smart enough to pull out of Lebanon and should be given credit for that. As long as the United States gives Israel 3 to 5 billion a year for military defense it will always remain a part of the Middle East problems and wrath. You cannot really discuss Middle East turmoil seriously with out adding Israel’s part in it. France and Germany were defying UN sanctions against Iraq after the Kuwait War. It is not just the United States. There are many players in the Middle East. England and BP made agreements with Libya for oil also.

      • Vigilant

        Bruce:

        I have to respectfully disagree.

        “Israel’s part in it?” Israel has no aspirations for territory, and has even ceded lands legitimately won in an Arab war of aggression. They are the single democratic nation in the ME with the exception of Turkey. Palestinians can receive (and have received) justice from the Supreme Court of Israel. Do you imagine an Israeli would get a fair shake from Palestinian “justice?”

        They are surrounded by Iranian-funded Muslim barbarians who would wipe them off the face of the earth and get a good night’s sleep. They are constantly under attack from terrorists who target innocents. The children of Palestine are programmed to have unreasoning hatred of Israel from the time they learn to speak.

        No sir, if anything we should increase our support of Israel. And Obama has done a fine job of denigrating the Israelis in favor of his fawning approval of everything Muslim.

        • Bruce D.

          I understand what you are saying Vigilant and do not disagree with most of what you say. Israel took all of what they consider their homeland by force in 1948 and they will never be welcomed in the Middle East. They only exist because of American aid. My point being America will always have some responsibility and blame in the turmoil as long as it backs Israel. No American president will ever get an A in the Middle East. The problem is not solvable short of pulling out of the Middle East all together and stop policing that part of the world which has consequences also. It is the viewpoint of the Muslims which want all the territory back, not just a few bits and pieces. Bin Larden does not like the support the U.S. gives the Saudis either. He has had design on being the King of that country.

          • Eddie47d

            I once again have to agree with Bruce D. and partially with Vigilant. I doubt if we will give up our aid to Israel any time soon and I do support them. I also support a Palestinian State and that should have been hammered out when Israel was formed. That’s alot of lost years and the root of many problems in the Middle East. Now we have Hamas and Fatah disagreeing with each other so it only get’s worse. I think Fatah (West Bank) should declare a State and ignore Hamas (Gaza). Let them form their own State or maybe cede their territory to Egypt and join that country.

          • Vigilant

            Bruce,

            “Israel took all of what they consider their homeland by force in 1948 and they will never be welcomed in the Middle East.”

            It was called a UN Mandate, and when the Brits removed themselves all too hastily from the scene they expected (many say wanted) the surrounding Arab nations to destroy the infant state of Israel. The surrounding nations did indeed attack, and were (thankfully) roundly defeated.

          • Bruce D.

            Vigilant, Israel was not a state until they forced 300,000 Arabs off their property and into Jordan. They confiscated the property through war and declared themselves a state. The UN cannot just tell people to leave their property so other people can have it. That property was taken in a war. Before that Jews bought 3 or 4 percent of the land and found it difficult to buy more because the Arabs did not want to sell. It was reinforced when the Arabs found out that those loaning the money to buy the land had the buyer sign a contract that the land could never be sold to anyone but a Jew. To this day these displaced Arab descendant live in these displacement camps as they never integrated into the Jordanian society. The state of Israel was created by war and displacement of the people who lived there. Given the nature of the Arabs and their desire to get their land back Israel will never be at peace and the Middle East will always be in turmoil.

          • Vigilant

            Bruce,

            You’re substantially right, I won’t argue the premise. Please see http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace%20Process/Guide%20to%20the%20Peace%20Process/UN%20General%20Assembly%20Resolution%20181 for a look at the map of the area as partitioned by the UN.

            To quote the website, “United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181 called for the partition of the British-ruled Palestine Mandate into a Jewish state and an Arab state. It was approved on November 29, 1947 with 33 votes in favor, 13 against, 10 abstentions and one absent.

            The resolution was accepted by the Jews in Palestine, yet rejected by the Arabs in Palestine and the Arab states.”

            If you look at the map, the area was partitioned in such a way as to stack the deck against the Jews. The long distances needed to travel between Tel Aviv, Haifa, Jaffa and Be’er Sheva to Jerusalem were nothing but shooting galleries for the Arabs to pick off Jewish travellors. And that’s exactly what happened. The Israelis knew that no Jewish state could survive under such circumstances.

            The cowardly retreat by the British, who didn’t even provide for administrative hand-off procedures to the Israelis, was guaranteed to cause trouble. The Israelis had even resorted to terrorism against the British, to be honest, to get their land back. The Brits were rumored to have hoped for the destruction of the infant state at the hands of the Arabs.

            When the dust settled, the Israelis had a much more cohesive and monolithic state to call their own. And that state has become a light of freedom and democratic fairness in a sea of Arab barbarianism.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            And what you need to understand, is if we ever, and I mean ever, turn our backs on Israel and leave them be, it will be over with for us. That is a fact.

        • james karalis

          israel is the problem !

          • Vigilant

            Wow! I’m impressed with such a fact-filled, profound statement!

            Contributes nothing but ignorance to the discussion.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Ive got to give Reagan an A+, just because I recognize excellence when I see it. And Ive got to give Bush 2 an A, because you see, as the liberals like to blame him for everything, I want to blame him for the people in Tunisia wanting freedom, for the people in Egypt wanting freedom, for the people in Iran wanting freedom, and all these other countries that are rising up over there wanting freedom. He said if Iraq could be free, that other nations over there would want freedom also. Gee, looks like he told the truth again. So all you libs, blame Bush for this also, because its because of his decisive actions, that Iraq is free, and that all these other countries are now vying for their freedom, which in the end, will all make the world a much better and safer place for all of us. Thank you Mr. Bush for not only your service to the United States, but for your service to the world. Put that in your pipe and smoke it pal.

  • Jarrow

    I have no knowledge of Reagan arming Iraq against Iran. I am aware that we gave Iraq intelligence and tactics. To my knowledge, Iraq’s weapons were from the USSR, South Africa, and Europe, especially (with a one time exception) the chemicals for the nerve gas. If we had not stopped Iran, they would have beaten Iraq. This would have been an even bigger disaster. Reagan also used the navy in the Persian Gulf to keep the oil flowing.
    I totally disagree (also) as to Clinton and Israel and the Arabs. If that deal (Camp David) had gone through, it would have mortally endangered Israel. It was Arafat who facilitated the bombings of the other terror groups and then started his own campaign. He never intended to make peace.
    It is too early to judge the outcome of Bush’s invasion of Iraq and removing Saddam. It may yet turn out very much for the best. Saddam was extremely dangerous. He was part of the rejectionist alignment. In this sense, he was no better than Iran. He might well have even gone into alliance with them against the West. There were errors made after the invasion, but it may yet turn out best. When you look at Bashir Assad (Syria) supporting Hizbollah and dominating (again) Lebanon, Iran and the Kim Ils of North Korea, rogue dictators are extremely dangerous. Removing Saddam makes perfect sense. The problem is Iran and the threat that it will destabilize Iraq. We had no choice about Afghanistan and still don’t. We had to drive out al-Qaeda and the Taliban — but Iran remains a problem supplier to the enemy here also. The great threat is that the Taliban will undermine nuclear Pakistan. We cannot just dismiss this. Pakistan is extremely dangerous and unstable.
    Obama’s huge mistake is trying to talk to Iran – and bullying Israel. Obama is obsessed with a “deal” between Israel and the Arabs who actually hate Jews and want all of them dead and will never make peace with Israel. Thus, Obama endangers Israel. Another disastrous Obama policy is trying to use the talking cure with Iran. Obama also pulled the funding from NGOs in the Mideast getting U.S. money to educate and further democratic principles. This was a Bush II project. Obama believes we are no one to tell anyone about what kind of government they should have so he pulled the funding. Obama is an absolute, total, mindboggling disaster. He will lose in 2012. Just pray that Iran does not have a nuke by then.

    • Bruce D.

      It was Russia that supplied Iraq with nuclear technology that lead to an Israel attack on the Iraq facility. Russia seems determined to make the Middle East nuclear.
      Best Answer – Chosen by Voters
      In the late 1970′s, it was actually the German firm ‘Karl Kobe’ that sold Iraq the ingredients for it’s first chemical weapons. Karl Kobe and others sold Iraq over 1,027 tons of the chemicals needed to produce mustard gas, Sarin, Tabun, and various tear gasses including CS and CN. The chemical weapons program was operational by late 1983/early 1984.
      Iraq then bought botulin toxin and mycotoxin from a total of 5 other German firms to begin a germ/biological weapons program.
      The United States CDC (Center for Disease Control) provided Iraq with biological samples up until 1989 for “Medical research and other purposes”. The US supplied anthrax, West Nile virus, botulism, and Brucella melitensis to Iraq for little or no charge. ( that was nice of us, huh?)
      The United Kingdom paid, in full, for the Iraqi chlorine plant where mustard gas was manufactured.
      Brazil provided around 100 tons of mustard gas in the early 80′s before the British funded plant was up and running.
      Singapore and India provided the ingredients for VX nerve agent and yet still more Tabun.
      Egypt and Spain both provided the majority of Iraq’s munitions that were designed to carry and disperse the chemical weapons.
      “In 1984, a CIA leak reported to the Washington Post that the CIA was providing intel to the Iraqis, including the targeting information and coordinates where Iraq used it’s chemical weapons against Iran.
      So, as you can see, damn near the whole world pitched in and essentially helped to create our own monster.”
      Source(s):
      Former US Marine
      Nuclear Biological Chemical Defense Specialist
      OIF Veteran

      • chupaa

        You forgot one country…Israel has Nuclear weapons and no one dares tell them to disarm I am not sure why us Americans are afraid of Israel. They are just a threat to any country as Iraq, Iran and the rest….!

        Thanks for your service by the way….

        C

        • Bruce D.

          I did not make it clear that the part in quotes is not mine. Many sites on the internet support this same viewpoint that Iraq was armed to the teeth by a whole lot of countries want to do business with them.

          • Bruce D.

            Only the first sentence was mine. I forgot the quote.

          • Eddie47d

            Reagan in the 80′s did arm Iraq with military hardware in the millions of dollars.Obviously we are still doing it for other reasons. We aren’t the only one either for Serbia is now signing a contract with Iraq worth $230 million in military gear. The world keeps fueling these crises so expect them to continue.

          • Bruce D.

            Eddie this may be a more accurate statement.
            “[T]he United States actively supported the Iraqi war effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by providing U.S. military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by closely monitoring third country arms sales to Iraq to make sure that Iraq had the military weaponry required. The United States also provided strategic operational advice to the Iraqis to better use their assets in combat… The CIA, including both CIA Director Casey and Deputy Director Gates, knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to Iraq. My notes, memoranda and other documents in my NSC files show or tend to show that the CIA knew of, approved of, and assisted in the sale of non-U.S. origin military weapons, munitions and vehicles to Iraq.”

          • Eddie47d

            RIGHT on Bruce.

        • Bruce D.

          chupa, Israel has never admitted to having nuclear weapons, they are a U.S. ally, and we give them 3 to 5 billion to develop their weapons along with other aid. It is U.S. intelligence that makes the claim that Israel has nuclear weapons. Israel is a little smarter than Saddam Hussein’s Iraq and Iran who both have gone out of their way to make the West believe they are an eminent threat and the aggressor.

        • texas58

          Chupa,

          Everyone assumes Israel has nukes, yet Israel has never admitted it. Now, let’s be reasonable and consider the issue from the Israeli point of view. First, if they have nukes, they don’t want to tell the world and their Islamo-Nazi enemies as they will simply use that against Israel in the UN to force Israel to sign onto to Nuke treaties the Islamo-Nazis will never keep but which will hurt Israel. Second, if they don’t have nukes it helps them for the Islamo-Nazis to think they do because the Islamo-Nazis will assume in a real emergency, like the Islamo-Nazis overrunning Israel, Israel would use those nukes. In short, the idea of Israel having actual nuclear weapons ready for use against the Islamo-Nazis makes those Islamo-Nazis think twice before invading Israel.

          As for the Islamo-Nazis, I have been over to the ME for nearly 18 months, have visited six different countries, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iraq, Israel, Kuwait, and Qatar, and everyone of the Muslim countries displays an absolutely unreasonable hatred of the Israelis. Yes, that includes Egypt who though they have a peace treaty with Israel still allows anti-Semitic trash to be taught to their children thus perpetuating anti-Jewish sentiments. So what would all you Israel haters have Israel do since all I have said here is correct? Israel would live at peace if the Islamo-Nazis would live at peace with them. But you see, that’s the point, the Islamo-Nazis would rather see their own children die than make a real peace with Israel.

    • DaveR

      Regarding Obama, I would also give him an F minus. He has encouraged the advance of militant Islam through his encouragement of and advocacy for Islam in general, e.g. his Cairo speech and his re-directing the mission of NASA; and his opposition to Israel and any currently available, economically viable, practical form of domestic energy. In essence, he is conducting executive jihad against the USA while feigning to be an advocate for historical American values, overtly rejecting our Constitution, systematically weakening our dollar (with help from Geithner and Bernanke), our defenses, our economy, our traditional families, our education, causing more divisions among our people, etc. Congress shares much of the blame.

      • OhLinda

        Finally, someone who can see the wolf in the sheep’s clothing! :-)

      • Ret

        Now don’t forget his allowing 80,000 muslims into this country in 2011, that’s in addition to the illegals from south of the border and every where else that he wants to let in. He probably was in Kenya or Indonesia when that was tried before and it was a big fiasco then, and it will be a bigger fiasco now.

        • Eddie47d

          Those Muslims are coming here because of the wars in the Middle East. It happens during and after all wars when people are displaced. The same thing happened after Vietnam and the thousands of refugees. To me the lesson is to stop poking our nose into other peoples civil wars and arming these conflicts. Then the refugees will stop trickling in. If immigration is an issue then demand Congress lower the numbers of immigrants that are allowed from each country.I’m not sure if our present quota system is working so see if our Representatives know these numbers. I’m not against Muslims,Mexicans or anybody else but I do wish it’s all done legally.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Your right. Bush’s freeing Iraq has started a whole region seeking freedom in their countries. And Saddam left unchecked, would have made Hitler look like a girl scout, as he would have taken over the whole middle east and controlled all the oil. Big and bad problems would have followed. Bush did the right thing. At least he didnt sit there like Clinton and do nothing again and again and again.

  • George

    Every President since LBJ has done exactly as he has been told by the Globalists who own the world. John F. Kennedy was made an example of by murdering him in front of the nation and the world on national TV.

    They sent the message loud and clear that anyone who attempts to remove the issuing power of the currency from the Globalists will be murdered.
    No other President since has ever even so much as spoken above a whisper in condemnation of the currency issuing.

    The Teleprompter in Chief is their Public Relations Person, nothing more. Presidents for decades now are mere puppets with some else pulling their strings.

    There is no United States. We are the Corporation of the United States of America, operated out of the nation/state Washington District of Criminals.

    Presidents aren’t stupid, they are scared to death for their lives, but their greed overtakes their better judgment.

    There are no more brave courageous men anymore in America. The nation has seen it’s rise and now it’s demise it just around the corner.

    R.I.P. America

    • meteorlady

      I must agree with what you wrote. Kennedy signed Executive Order 11100 and months later was dead. that EO would have eliminated the Federal Reserve – it disallowed the government from borrowing money from them which would have effectively put them out of business.

      I have been researching the Bilderberg group and wonder who is above them. I think Soros is there somewhere and he is the devil incarnate when it comes to social engineering and ruining a country. He is also Obama’s most prolific backer through the state senate race, the federal race and the presidency.

      • Patriot

        m-lady, one word well 2 words; “Rockefeller & Rothchild”

        • http://Verizon Bud G.

          Throughout all the comments, I did not notice anyone mentioning Islam doctrine regarding the Jewish people and Christians. The conflict has been going on for ages now and the people who seem to think democracy as we know it will exist in the middle east will happen. I do not think it will and in fact some of you see the Muslim Brotherhood for what they are. If the Brotherhood gains control in Egypt which is likely to happen as they are the most organized among the factions there, you can forget any treaties with Israel regardless of what you hear coming out of their mouths. I doubt if anyone can name one country in the middle east that will side with Israel unless Iran begins to push for control of the middle east and that would be out of necessity, not because they liked them. When we depart Iraq and Afghanistan, expect the ethnic groups to war among themselves for control and never ending turmoil.

      • Terry

        The Krupp Family is the King of the mountaind. They control the Builderbergs, Rothschilds and everyone else down the line.

      • Carlucci

        Yes, and the powers that be wanted Kennedy to go along with the Northwoods plot blaming Cuba as the fall guy. JFK refused to go along with it, and allegedly walked out of that cabinet meeting saying “these people are crazy”.

        You three are right on the mark. The “presidents” are nothing but meat puppets who sell their souls to the real powers that be who are running the world.

        • Eddie47d

          George Soros was in the Bilderberg Group but no longer. I was surprised to see Rick Perry and John Edwards on the list.There was also the Dutch Shell Oil Company and many others.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Soro’s owns the democrats. He bought them a long time ago. Being a democrat, Obama is just another of his pawns. And the scary thing is, they owe him, and they owe him a lot, and its payday. That is the scary part, because who knows as to the extent of the damage these left wing liberals are willing to do to this country, in exchange for their own benefit. They dont care about anything, but power and money, and they have been that way for years.

    • Patriot

      Eisenhower and JFK tried to warn us about the Military-Industrial Complex under the cover of the CFR, United Nations, Tri-Lateral commission, Bilderbergs all funded by the Federal Reserve and other central banks. The only hope we have is that the American people wake up; I fear it may be too late!

      • Ret

        I fear you are so correct, it’s too late. We have brainwashed children who grow into brainwashed adults. Their tragedy is that their favorite didn’t win in whatever stupid tv show contest is most important; or what’s happening to the trash in real housewives. Really sickening. Unfortunately for the minority of us, we’ll get what the majorities’ laziness, and non-involvement brings down upon everyone’s heads. Do the ultra rich really think that China or India will give a crap about them? Do they think they’re immune? I hope they become fluent in the standard Beijing Mandarin. That’s what the officials speak, and of course a 10 million dollar bribe may be good for toilet paper.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Ret,
          Perhaps the best titled show on TV is Desperate Housewives, because if the US, indeed the whole world keeps heading in the same direction it is at this time, things are going to get VERY desperate for ALL housewives!!!

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Or maybe survivor, because these liberals keep at it at the pace they are on in dismantling and destroying this country, we may all just be doing soon what we can to survive.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      George… I think you have nailed it. I believe Kennedy was murdered by Oswald, but he was just a scape goat and the real reason is Kennedy wouldn’t go along with NWO. Do we even have a chance of seeing anyone come into office that won’t be ‘bought and paid for’ by NWO? And if we do have someone come in, for how long? Is there any way to stop this insanity?

    • Conservative at Birth

      It is my understanding that the IMF owns the District of Columbia, right now.

    • Chris

      Amen, brother. It is a sad commentary on either Myer’s ability to analyze or the voter’s ability to pick a leader. It amazes me that the prez with the highest score was the one suffering from Alheimers.

      Americans are a funny breed: they will whine about $ 4 a gallon for gas as they drive to their nearest nightspot to pay $2.50 or $3 for a 12oz bottle of lousy Budweiser. I guess if gas ever hits $8 a gallon like in Europe, Americans will be killing each other in the streets.

      The empire is coming to its natural end. The final act should be very interesting.

      • Kasi

        First off there is no reason us “whining” americans should be paying over $1.50 per gallon when we have more crude than we know what to due with so we’ll just leave it in the ground.Second its not the bud we’re paying $3.00 for, its the experience.The germans and most europeans for that matter have been paying way too much for gas for decades,if we would just stick a damn drill bit in the ground and build acouple of refineries we wouldnt be in this so called enegy crisis we would be in the export not import business.

        • Hot Dog

          Our gas “problem” is not a matter of supply. we have a price fixed by speculation. If you will pay it, they will charge it. No matter how much they have. And all you guys who blame the kikes for ME uprisings, blame the Brits. If you will remember it was peaceful for 400 years as a colony of Turkey. The Turks do not want it back.

          • http://deleted Claire

            The speculators on Wall Street.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          It seems to be a game they are playing, with the plan to suck the arab world dry of oil, and he who has oil in the end wins. Problem is, from my understanding, is from the time they start to drill, and build a refinery, its like a 10 year project to see results. So just what year could they be figuring the Arabs will run dry? Because 10 years is a long time to wait around in no mans land for a result of drilling, when maybe they should be drilling now, and watch how fast the Arab oil drops in price. No doubt about it.

    • Grandpop

      Grading presidents……why? All the presidents were elected by a (supposedly) majority. The congress has the power to control the President. No president can be graded by his behavior. Reagan and the Iran-contra fiasco. Did you include thoughts as to why Clinton, then governor of Arkansas, allowed the “secret” flights to pass through HIS state. FDR is claimed by the “greatest generation” as the best President ever. Today we honor that generation but today we also know that FDR had an “agenda” had the people known would not have given him even a second term. JFK……camelot, really? Today we know different. Instead of grading the “people’s” choice, why not grade those who elect them………un-informed or informed…..will elect a president. Obama is THE perfect example of a “FAD” vote, everywhere one would see and hear OBAMA! Today we must realize that a FAD should NOT be encouraged……..that THE people NEED TO LOOK AND LEARN WHO THEY MAY VOTE FOR………

    • http://personalliberty.com Allan Page

      I agree. My friends and I were saying essentially the same thing three decades ago and few, if any, would listen. President Reagan was given the message by the assassination attempt against him. The corporation commonly called the United States Government began a campaign of mixed war against the American people long before JFK. This same corporation and its political underlings rule over the American people through a system of adhesion contracts. Land of the free, another illusion.

    • Dennis Buskirk

      I can see you dropped out of school after the first grade. Blaming Clinton for 9-11 when it is plane as the nose on your face that Bush the Idiot 2 had that planed when his men paid off the courts to hand him an election he didn’t even come close to winning. If you think people were asleep back then and have short memories like you would want to believe they do. Then you have completely lost it. And as far as Obama goes. He could do something if the republicans that was voted in to work for the people would do just that and not hand everything over to the rich as they have been doing all along. You need to wake up son. Someone is going to hit you head on some morning out on the freeway on your way to work. And as far as grading goes. I give you a grade so far below F- that the smartest teacher in the world just hasn’t come up with it yet.

    • BrotherPatriot

      BINGO, George…Bingo.

      Are there enough of you reading this to understand what George just said. Begin following (researching) the names that have been mentioned…see how they correlate w/each other. See how they branch out & what organizations those people are affiliated with. See who they rub shoulders with…see…the…dots.

      Connect them.

      Understand the true equation of what is going on.

      Only an aware public will ever have a chance to shed the yoke of enslavement that has been put upon us by those that follow this Agenda. (In part of course the illegal Federal Reserve.) They “own” everything…it seems. They have key people in places of decision making & “leadership”. Even through all of this…they still will lose in the end.

      Why?

      Because they are the wicked and as soon as they set foot to their path they put themselves opposite of God. They lost the great Game as soon as it started…but they sure look good as they lose, now don’t they? This too is the obvious hand of Satan or whatever name you wish to use for the side of Negative energy that is represented by that entity. Part of our “tests” are to see if you can resist the corruption of your soul & the easy way out.

      Stay strong. Be true to your “inner compass” and live your life honorably and in the light. Try not to lie & try to help your fellow man find God & his/her own inner peace that lies within because God is in all of us. Even in our enemies who choose not to recognise this basic truth.

      God Bless.

  • Ret

    What about the USS Cole? Not even a hand slap. I’m so disgusted with all of them, I can’t stand it. Too arrogant to listen to anyone else. Well, the top dog is no more. I remember when we called China the paper tiger. Who’s the paper tiger now?

    • Jovianus

      FYI…almost every one of those responsible for Kenya and the USS Cole were caught, tried and jailed…until Yemen let them escape when Bush II went to war, tortured and killed in trying to make Iraq a US colony.

      • Ret

        FYI, read the facts.

  • Dennis

    You both have it wrong in grading presidents. For Reagan they don’t have a low enough grade for him on the books. And it wasn’t Iraq he sold weapons to. It was Iran which in turn turned right around and used them on our own military when they killed over 200 “SLEEPING” Marines which they wasn’t man enough to face. Just like the one that sold the weapons wasn’t man enough to own up to it either. He had to let someone else take the fall for him. And if I remember correctly it was Clinton that got us back on our feet by balancing the budget and had a surplus when he left office. And the next one The criminal regime of Bush Jr. he should have been buried under a prison somewhere and never ever let him see the light of day again. And as for Obama, If they would get these worthless republicans out of his way and let him him work he could get us back on track. But no the republicans are only interested in making him look like a fool and helping the rich steal all of the wealth from the middle & poor class in this nation and run over seas somewhere and hide it in an account so they don’t have to pay taxes on it.
    If there ever was a party that should be cast from this earth it would be the republican party altogether. They are nothing more than a bunch of low life stab you in the back crooks that should be all looked up if there was just enough room to house them. Which I think they should dig big deep holes in the ground and store them there. And as far as these wars goes. We should have never been in Iraq to start with. They had no berrying on 9-11 what so ever. And the other one could have been won and our guy home before now if it hadn’t been for that little twerp Bush pulling the Sea Bee’s and the rangers out when he did. They was getting too close to his partner in crime which would have meant he would have been found out about long before now. After the promises he made to that terrorist group over there that they would never be caught and made to pay for 9-11 and all the Americans he got killed here in the states before going over there and putting our military in harms way so he and his criminal buddy D.H.Cheney could claim all of the oil in that country, which by the way didn’t work out as planed for him. But it did get a lot of people killed that should have never even been brought into harms way to start with. Just maybe we can only hope that someone with a backbone will come along and prove what Bush and Cheney pulled on The United States and lock them up where they should have been long before now.

    • GaGa

      Your story don’t count. Obama is the worst president of the bunch. He is a liar and should be impeach.

    • meteorlady

      Go the the US Treasury website. The only way Clinton claimed a balanced budget was to count income into the Social Security Trust fund – no out go. If he had not done that the deficit would have been some $17.9 BILLION the day Bush took office and the first full year of Bush’s term, under a Clinton signed budget, the deficit was $133 BILLION. Bush actually had the deficit coming down even with both wars until his last two years when the Democrats gained power and started the spending spree. I blame Bush for a lot of things, not all good, but the deficit is not one of them. Bush, of course, could have vetoed a lot of the Democrat spending bills, but he didn’t because he feared his veto would be over ridden.

      • BigBadJohn

        Bush had the deficit coming down??? The only year it reversed direction was when the democrats won congress! From the treasury site:

        09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
        09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86 18 billion deficit – Clinton
        09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06 133 billion Bush
        09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16 421 billion
        09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62 555 billion
        09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32 596 billion
        09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50 553 billion
        09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23 574 billion – Democrats win
        09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48 501 billion
        09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49 1017 billion Banking crisis
        09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75 1885 billion
        09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79 1652 billion

        http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

        The deficit for fiscal year 2009 was $1.4 trillion and, at nearly 10 percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), was the largest deficit relative to the size of the economy since the end of World War II. If current policies are continued without changes, deficits will likely approach those figures in 2010 and remain near $1 trillion a year for the next decade.

        The events and policies that have pushed deficits to these high levels in the near term, however, were largely outside the new Administration’s control. If not for the tax cuts enacted during the presidency of George W. Bush that Congress did not pay for, the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that were initiated during that period, and the effects of the worst economic slump since the Great Depression (including the cost of steps necessary to combat it), we would not be facing these huge deficits in the near term.

    • Vigilant

      Sorry, your rambling tirade against any and all Republicans completely disqualifies the legitimacy of your discussion.

      I recall talking with a man with a PhD in history who claimed that the Republicans, and only the Republicans, were responsible for everything bad that ever happened in the US. He was just as blind as you.

      • s c

        Vigilant, anyone who holds a PhD in ANY field and makes a statement like that should have his/her PhD YANKED. That retard was telling you that he’s a firm believer in conspiracies (sound familiar?). He’s telling you that his education was a one-sided waste of time. Beyond that, I hope the worthless SON OF A #^&*+ finishes his “academic” career at Haaavid.

        • WayneT

          He certainly can’t see both sides of he coins. I am not too sure he would even know when to come in out of the rain. PhD’s don’t promise anyone common sense.

          • Eddie47d

            So Dennis comments on another side of the story and GaGa says it doesn’t matter. Well Vigilant what do you have to say to those who slam Democrats and want them to become extinct or sunk in the middle of the ocean? Seems like those folks have competition although I think Dennis is no more extreme than those who hate Democrats.

          • Vigilant

            Eddie, I have no beef with you on that. Sweeping generalizations of the “enemy” on the other side do no good whatsoever, no matter where it comes from.

            Quite often, I believe, statements such as “all [whatever] are evil” or “all [whatever] are destroying our country” are more a sign of frustration, and REALLY mean, “the preponderance of policies, actions, etc., of that [whatever] are misguided and will harm more than help.” It’s a softer statement, doesn’t really mean to encompass a stereotype, and leaves room for the fact that many [whatever] have a range of views, some of which seem reasonable and many of which are hogwash and destructive.

            We are all guilty, you and me included, of using this hyperbole in the heat of the moment. I know, for example, what your views are on illegal immigration from past postings, and we agree on that, and some other things. I know we get hard on each other, say things that we would change in the cool light of reflection, but our responses are often trigger-jumping.

            The nature of discourse on this site, as with so many others, tends toward the sensationalist and uncivil at times. I’d like to think that that happens because people have strong views about what’s best for our country. In that sense, we all have much to learn about our country and where it’s headed.

    • Lomax

      It wasn’t the whoremonger Clinton that balanced the books in the Fed Government, it was the Republican Congress that he elected by his stupidity in his first two years. Hillary helped with her attempt at Hillarycare, which thankfully failed.

    • Conservative at Birth

      Republican Congress balanced the budget, not the President at the time Bill Clinton. Did you not have an American Government class in High School? Or, were you asleep?

      • WayneT

        Yes, you are right, Conmservative. Republican John Kasich, the current Ohio Governor, was one of the Republicans that got the budget under Control in the mid 60′s. Clinton, could not do anything about it as the Republicans were in control at that time. We can all talk until we are blue in the fact, but until the Libs open their minds, we might as well be talking to a tree stump. The Democrats are the reason why this government is in debt so far now. Can anyone wrap their mind around $14.3 trillion dollars. Does anyone understand that huge amount of money

        • Eddie47d

          After repeated calls for diversity Gov Kasich finally appointed a minority person today to his cabinet. It’s unfortunate that 15% of the population in Ohio have to fight for a seat at the table.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            Kiss collective bargaining goodbye in Ohio as well!!!!

      • Jovianus

        So from here on the causes of the deficit is the GOP and Dems can wash their hands of it. OK…got it.

        • dave

          Are you Mr jovi anus really that stupid??? After reading thru your posts i must say i dont think i have ever seen such a distorted perception of reality or a completely convoluted anal ysis of world events. With clueless liberal idiots like you out there spewing your bilge it is no wonder our country is so screwed up!!!

    • Kasi

      Reagan sold iran WWII weapons (far outdated) to retrieve americans that were held there for over 400 days that carter left to ROT.Clinton didnt get us back on our feet the economy was on the rise well into reagans first term and it never looked back due to massive tax cuts,it had some hiccups but nothing abnormal until 08′ then the housing market bubble burst that clintons admin put on steroids from again, carter, it was the community reinvestment act that put the backs of the lenders up against the wall and forced them to lend to people who couldnt possibly afford a mortgage so they signed up for arm loans then the rates increased (ON SCHEDULE) and bam millions of forclosures that the bush admin. tried to stop 17 different occasions.Not to mention billions cut from defense and intel. along with s.s. funds,money that was already spent being put toward the deficit its called cooking the books your president obama is good at that but not as good as he thinks although the drones are buying in.anyway youve probaly stopped reading my comment by now because im sure you googled some facts and found that you are entirely wrong about everything even the tree friendly prius you either drive or long to drive.by the way liberals are suppose to be the friendly loving party right? nope just another left wing lib allusion, your just plain HATEFUL and illinformed.Conservatives (same mind set as our founders)are for the motivated self help individual not for propping up the lazy cupholders always looking for a handout,im not talking about the sick or elderly,its the plain lazy and i know alot of them along with illegals sucking up revenue like leaches. All anybody has to do is help themselves not look to the gov. for another persons money. ITS NOT THE GOVERNMENTS MONEY TO GIVE AWAY ITS OURS AND THEY ARE STEALING FROM US AND IF YOUR NOT PISSED ABOUT THAT THEN YOU SIR SHOULD JUST STAY HOME ON ELECTION DAY.

  • Enceef

    Another stupid question is asking why America (and its presidents) repeatedly makes every conceivable mess in its ME policies. That answer is America’s unconditional support of Israel and all aggravation flows from this “unconditional support.” Everyone with a pulse knows it so why even bother to ask the aforementioned rhetorical question in the first place? Another never publicly admitted reason is OIL. Dick Cheney and the Bush gang could easily write a book on their nefarious schemes. Why such crooks are not held accountable or responsible for their actions is beyond every thinking person. What a scam!

    • Vigilant

      Enceef,

      America’s unconditional support of Israel may be the ONLY thing we have done right in the past half century in the Middle East. “Everyone with a pulse” knows that Israel is the ONLY democratic government in that area. And anyone with a pulse who agrees with wiping them off the face of the earth is a supporter of the murderous terrorists who would do so in a heartbeat.

      Lastly, anyone with the blindness of anti-Semitism such as yourself deserves no place on a forum of reasoned discourse.

      • JR

        Vigilant, you need to distinguish between criticism of the state of Israel and US support and Antisemitism. This is NOT antisemitism. Unfortunately the uneducated use the word antisemitism every time they have no real answer…they hide behind it so they don’t have to debate an issue…. Antisemitism is as abused and misused as the term Nazi.
        People just blindly use those terms without any understanding what they mean. So do yourself a big favor and research the term before you accuse someone in a derogatory way as you did.

        • Vigilant

          Son, I’ll put my academic credentials against yours any day of the week, so don’t call me uneducated. I know full well what antisemitism means, so don’t cavalierly dispense with a discussion of it because you think that it’s irrelevant.

          The historical record is crystal clear when it comes to the designs of the terrorist countries surrounding Israel. Virtually every one of those nations denies that the Holocaust even happened, as do your NeoNazi and leftist friends. In view of the wholesale terror against Israel, supported by those who are blind to history, there is only ONE explanation for it, antiSemitism.

          Most try to hide it, some do a better job than others, but I’ve concluded after years of study that when you have agreement between far left and far right on the issue, the only POSSIBLE conclusion is that the hatred is fueled by the same old Jew-hating that gave the push to the Nazi regime.

          Even the NWO conspiracy folks will hide it by claiming it’s anti Zionist, not anti Semitic sentiment. Most don’t even know that the Jew baiting done in the Third Reich was a product of the Nazi belief that the Jews were responsible for attempting to establish a new world order. It’s the same old story, now under a different name.

          • Eddie47d

            I feel your anger Vigilant but Enceef did not make an anti-Semitic comment. Yet you make many anti- Muslim comments. We should all protect Israel,Democracy and those who spit on the Jewish heritage. That doesn’t mean to attack Muslims or their positive heritage either. Now don’t get me wrong the negative aspects of the Muslim world is fair game in criticism. Please leave out the Nazi rants in your anger for they didn’t seem to bode well

          • Vigilant

            Eddie, you will not find that I have made any anti-Muslim statements, ever. It is not my place to persecute a religion or a people in general, given my respect for all cultures and religions. Feel free to search any of my posts, and you won’t find anything in my comments that disparages the religion of Islam.

            I have, on the other hand, felt it absolutely necessary to condemn in the strongest possible terms, any terrorist killer of innocent people no matter where I find them. When I say “Muslim extremists,” “Muslim Brotherhood” or “Islamists” I’m not talking about the man on the street, I’m talking about the vermin who would destroy us by any means possible.

            When I found fault with the terrorists in Northern Ireland, I didn’t condemn the Irish people. When I feel disdain for people like Bill Ayers or Saul Alinsky, I’m not putting down all Americans.

          • Vigilant

            Eddie, it was not a “Nazi rant,” it was a making a connection between historical truth of the Nazi regime and the NWO conspiracy theories of today.

            Please look it up, or read Hannah Arendt’s fine works on making just such a connection. Her first major book was The Origins of Totalitarianism (1951), which traced the roots of Stalinist Communism and Nazism in both anti-Semitism and imperialism.

            I have not thrown out the Nazi card like the left does with the race card to stifle discussion. I was adding to it.

    • Conservative at Birth

      Where is the evidence of the charges you make against Bush and Cheney?
      If ther was any, I am sure the Democrats in control of Both the House and the Senate would have found them by now.

      • Eddie47d

        What about all the unsubstantiated charges against Obama? You pick and choose too much Conservative.

    • DaveR

      And another huge mistake is the continuing refusal to acknowledge the true nature and goals of Islam — the entire world under Sharia law. No president to date has been willing to openly confront the teachings of Islam contained in their scriptures; they all characterize it as one of the world’s greatest religions, and a peaceful one. Our people suffer from a lack of knowledge. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

  • W. H. Martin

    I am pretty much in agreement but want to make a couple of points. 1) Libya was probably not responsible for the Panam 103 bombing over Lockerbie. That was Hezbollah in retaliation for our shooting down the Iranian airbus en route to Mecca. Quadafi “threw an agent under the bus” in order to improve relations with the West. 2) We knew the attack on Kuwait was coming. Iraq taped our ambassador April Glasbie stating that we would not object. We wanted to suck Saddam into the attack so that we could punish him for double crossing us over the issue of oil pricing. He still refused to play ball so Bush the lesser went after him.

    • Ret

      Can you expound a bit on that bit of info regarding that tape regarding Kuwait? Thanks. First time I heard about that.

    • WayneT

      I heard that an Libyan Government official that left Libya had definately identified Muammar Gaddafi as the one who had ordered the attack on the airbus that was blown out of the sky.

  • Elvira

    I can’t believe you didn’t include Jimmie Carter in your ratings. I give him an F- due to the fact that he refused to support our ally the Shah and virtually handed the nation of Iran over to radical Islam. We are still paying the price for that monumental blunder. As thanks to Carter, the radical regime in Tehran took the hostages and held them until the end of Carter’s presidency. Another Carter blunder was signing over the Panama Canal from American control to Panama and now the Panama Canal is administered and operated by a Red Chinese company.
    Now, we have a person sitting in the Whitehouse much more dangerous than any preceding president. This person can actually destroy our nation and is far along in doing just that!!!!
    Incidentally, both Kennedy brothers were assinated by the Mafia in retribution for the help they gave in getting JFK elected. Joe senior enlisted the help of the Mafia in several primaries that JFK won. Apparently, Joe Sr. never told John or Bobby that they owed a debt of gratitude to the Mob. So what does Bobby do as Attorney General, he goes after organized crime by prosecuting the very Mobsters that helped get his brother elected president. You don’t doublecross the Mob and live very long.
    I agree with George, America has seen it’s best days and is on the way to down to the greatest fall of any nation in history. We are witnessing the great fall of America.

    • Patriot

      Elvira,

      It was not the Mafia that killed JFK, this was planned at the very top of the monetary and political elites. JFK’s assassination was a warning to every President to follow; they want the people to point fingers at everyone else except the real criminals. They have infiltrated every institution in America ever since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, CFR, Tri-Lateral Commission, Bilderbergs. Educate yourself on these organizations and you will see who is really running things; i.e. almost every one of our Presidents past and present have a majority if not all of people from these organizations appointed to the top posts of the government. Appointed by the President not voted by the public, you ask yourself why? Forget about Republican or Democrat, we need the people to bring back our basic rights and principles to change the course of our country.

      • Conservative at Birth

        Although it is an interesting theory, it is nothing more than a theory. The evidence I have seen point more toward the Mafia than the Biledbergs. We need to have all of the evidence that is currently locked up released before we can make any valid ASSUMPTIONS.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          conservative,
          I would point out that there is just as much pointing towards the fed. JFK signed 11110 and a few days later was dead, the signed bill was never enforced!

        • Eddie47d

          Elvira; The Panama Canal is still owned by the Panamanians. The ports at both ends are partially owned by Hong Kong /Hutchison Whampoa Co but also Taiwan and several American Companies. They are all involved in the shipping container business. The Interior of the Canal/Locks are owned by the Panama Canal Commission. There are 5 Americans and 4 Panamanians on this Commission. This Commission gives the American Government the authority to intervene militarily at any time to protect the Canal.

        • BrotherPatriot

          Wrong…C.a.B…the FED/mafia/bilderberg/council of foreign relations/trilateral commission/UN, etc are all part of the same organization/organisim. Like rings in a tree they are all connected and are all following the same Agenda. There is enough evidence out there to connect them all if you look.

          These people do NOT want us talking about them…or for the masses to know of them. It’s how they operate…by infiltrating everything from within. They educated their children at Harvord/Princeton/Yale, etc., and then place them in key positions (Bush’s) to further their Agenda. Period. It’s how they work.

          • BrotherPatriot

            Oh…and…*cough*…Rothschild/Rockerfellers…*cough*…are to be included in the equation as well. Now of course if you know who those guys are & who they are affiliated with…

            …the equation truely begins to begin to Glare at you.

            They don’t want us to know these things much less talk about them. In regards to Republicans/Democrats…it doesn’t matter…they are just different flavors of the same Ice Cream. They are bought & sold by the social elites mentioned above plus their “secret societies” who are creating our money out of thin air. America is not free…it’s a corporation unfortunately and any who think differently are deluded against the truth.

            Wake up & God Bless.

  • Ken

    The statement that weapons provided by Reagan killed the Marines in Beirut shows an ignorance of the sequence of events and the nature of the attack on their barracks. The killing of Marines was not accomplished by weaponry of the sort that the US ever provided Iran, before or after the overthrow of the Shah. It was a truck bomb of the sort terrorists from Ireland to Japan have used without help from any foreign country.

    Further, the Beirut embassy bombing occurred long before the Iran/Contra deal. Unless Reagan also sent Iran a time machine, he did not send weapons to Iran in 1985 that killed Marines in 1982. The only country whose military suffered casualties by those weapons was Iraq.

    One previous poster raises an important point. Iraq was not armed with US weapons. Its armed forces were equipped almost entirely with Soviet weaponry–T-55′s and T-62′s, not Abrams or M-60′s, MiG fighters, not F-14′s, 16′s or 18′s, RPG’s, not LAW’s or TOW missiles, etc.. Before the fall of the Soviet Union, Iraq was a key ally of the Soviet Union in the Middle East, and it was the USSR, not the USA, that armed Iraq.

    The Iran/Contra deal simply maintained a balance between two of our enemies while obtaining cash for weapons that we would otherwise have thrown or given away. The materials sent to Iran were of a generation that had been replaced. That cash led to the overthrow of a pro-Soviet government on the American mainland that was instigating Communist uprisings in other neighboring states.

    Reagan: B-
    Bush, Sr.: B-
    Clinton: D
    Bush, Jr.: D
    Obama: F

  • BigBadJohn

    I agree except for two.

    Reagan a C+ – give me a break he sold arms to terrorists!! He created Al Queada and supported Saddams consolidation of power. His failed policies are the root of most of our issues in the middle east. Clearly an F.

    Clinton – Nobody even knew who Al Queda was until Clinton’s investigation in the WTC bombing in 1993. At the time of those opportunities to capture OBL, there was no just cause, he had not been linked to any terrorists attacks until well after those opportunities.
    Best I can give him is a = C.

    • meteorlady

      So if he investigated and learned about Al Queda, why didn’t he dig further? Why do you say there were no links if they learned about them during and investigation? You might also read the remark above you about Reagan which I believe to be accurate.

      • BigBadJohn

        Clinton captured the terrorists involved:

        President Clinton primarily elected to treat the 1993 World Trade
        Center attack as a law-enforcement matter rather than viewing it as
        the start of a “war” with radical Islamists. The Joint Terrorism Task
        Force led an investigation into the bombing that resulted in the
        arrest of four individuals who were found culpable. “The suspects
        went on trial on September 13, 1993. The trial lasted 6 months with
        the presentation of 204 witnesses and more than 1,000 pieces of
        evidence. A jury convicted the four defendants on March 4, 1994, in
        federal court on all 38 counts against them. On May 25, 1994, a judge
        sentenced each of the four defendants to 240 years in prison and a
        $250,000 fine. On February 7, 1995, authorities in Pakistan arrested
        the prime fugitive wanted in connection with the bombing and
        subsequently rendered him to U.S. authorities. This suspect, the
        mastermind behind the bombing, was sentenced to 240 years in prison on
        January 8, 1998.” “The World Trade Center Bombing” Anti-Defamation
        League (2005)

        Clinton offered OBL by the Sudanese in 1996???:

        What is clear is that the 9/11 Commission report totally discounts the Sudanese claims.

        AND
        Ultimately, however, it doesn’t matter. What is not in dispute at all is the fact that, in early 1996, American officials regarded Osama bin Laden as a financier of terrorism and not as a mastermind largely because, at the time, there was no real evidence that bin Laden had harmed American citizens. So even if the Sudanese government really did offer to hand bin Laden over, the U.S. would have had no grounds for detaining him. In fact, the Justice Department did not secure an indictment against bin Laden until 1998 – at which point Clinton did order a cruise missile attack on an al Qaeda camp in an attempt to kill bin Laden.

        • Conservative at Birth

          We could have kept him in a prison in another country (rendition)

        • http://?? Joe H.

          BBJ,
          then clntoon lied himself!! He himself tried to explain away the reason he turned down OBL as he was not guilty of any crime in the US. now you can’t have it both ways John!!

          • Eddie47d

            Joe; Are you saying we can go anywhere in the world and arrest anybody we want without proof of their guilt. Are you working for the CIA? That is a bad precedent even though the US has done it before. Killing or capturing someone on assumptions is not exactly good policy. That also get’s us in alot of trouble.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            Why not?? Interpol, thanks to your buddy nobamma can now come into this country and arrest anybody and leave the country with said person without the ok of ANY court!! Even if it is a case of mistaken identity, you have absolutely no recourse!!! this is a bypass of the American soverinty!! gee, I guess it’s ok for all the other countries, just not us!!!

      • BigBadJohn

        meteor lady.

        “You might also read the remark above you about Reagan which I BELIEVE to be accurate.”

        Now that is the catch isn’t, that is what you BELIEVE.

        Well I believe that ANY president that knowingly sells arms to the same terrorists that have attacked Americans and held them hostage is a TRAITOR!

    • chupaa

      I agree we did support the Taliban/al qaeda and gave them weapons to fight the Russians in which the Russians lost….! Anyone see the movie Charlie Wilson’s war….we should have stayed to help the Afghans instead of the radical Taliban take over….

      • Eddie47d

        We did loose a golden opportunity then but we also didn’t understand what the Taliban were transforming into.

  • W. H. Martin

    I just want to clarify one thing. When I said I am in agreement I meant with George and Dennis whose comments were immediately before mine. WHM

    • meteorlady

      Dennis’ comments are inaccurate and filled with bias. I don’t understand that would take them at face value.

  • bob wire

    well, they are not the kind of people the western mind is use to dealing with. I’ve attempted to work with them off and on for 15 years.

    They are very slippery!

    I’ve all but quit attempting to try. I don’t wish to be a convicted felon for hurting one of them.

    I don’t need their business and plan to keep it that way.

    I’d say an President that tries, has a big disappointment on his hand.

    Perhaps Mr. Livingston might have better luck, but I doubt it.

  • meteorlady

    I think we messed up the middle east after the big war. We helped England and we were wrong. We should have stayed to ourselves then but now we have meddled so much because of oil, we can’t seem to stop.

    There is no way that we will ever make peace with Muslims in the world period. They are totally different than us. They are uncivilized and even when they are highly educated they are carrying their tribal mentality, beliefs and biases with them.

    I’m afraid that the entire region will erupt into a global war and that is what the elites are looking to for population control.

    • anonymous1964

      After multiple deployments to Iraq, I concur with your assessment. The tribalism, ethnic hostilities and religious strife between various Islamic sects will be difficult if not impossible to overcome. You have been able to grasp a concept that is foreign to most Westerners. There are groups of people in the world that hate anything Western and that is enough to fuel the rage for generations. No matter how much good we do in that area of the world, our motives will never be seen as pure and certain elements will always want to destroy us and our way of life.

    • JR

      You do realize that the educated people in the Islamic world regard the west just as uneducated, barbaric, and degenerated as we regard them?

      This is the type of division we have everywhere and unless we as human beings get rid of this, there will be wars and destruction.
      We the west are as much at fault as the Islamic countries, the Russians, or Chinese. Everyone thinks and believes they are better then the others, they’re religion is better then the others, they’re system is better then the others, they are smarter then the others…..it reminds my of kids going at it claiming one [word removed] is bigger then the other [word removed].

  • Rusty

    You forgot one important thing about George W.H. Bush:

    T’was the U.N. who urged him to stop going after Saddam.

    • Vigilant

      You’re entirely correct. It was more than an urging, it was an agreement before the war even started.

      The lefties cannot fault Bush I for his actions. He had a clear exit strategy, not something you can claim for any other president since.

      • bob wire

        and because of that exit, we are seen as clear victors.

        wars must have ends! ~ if you want to keep fighting ! start a new one for Christ sakes. But end one!!!!!

        Like it’s been said, “You can’t fix stupid” ~ we are but fools to think that we can. Leave them to their sand.

        If Dick the snake and “W” had told me, We don’t like these people very much, they treat their women like dogs, they plotted to kill my father, they abuse livestock, the leadership is a very bad man and they have got a bunch of oil for the taking and the plan is to go over there , kill leadership and anyone that standing in the way and take their oil.

        I would have said, okay!, great! sounds like a good plan to me, need any help? ~ but we had to go through all the aluminum tubes and lies bull$hit. ` Trying to make a fool out of the American people and the world.

        For the lies, ~ 43 and administration get an F minus .

        • Vigilant

          bob wire,

          So the honesty of the cause is trumped by the lies of the administration? Many have made similar accusations about the American Revolution, pointing out that propaganda (Tom Paine) and subterfuge was at the heart of it. But guess what? The honesty of the cause resulted in building the greatest nation in history, and the very first one to acknowledge the sovereignty of the individual.

          If you expect any administration to always tell us the truth, you’ll be waiting an awful long time, friend.

          • Eddie47d

            George Bush may have had an exit strategy but a weak one. He thought the war would be over lickety split like his dad’s. George and his team didn’t understand the Iraqi people and their deep divisions. Thus after numerous misunderstandings we still can’t get them right. Even the paper today said that Malaki won’t appoint a minister of Police or Defense. That is delaying our transfer of troops now and by July.

          • bob wire

            No , I don’t expect honesty ,I demand it, when it comes to committing troops, killing people and spending Trillions of dollars forever more so.

            I want the truth, and especially if I won’t like it!

            People that will lie, will do anything else that you might hate a well.

            It’s the first step across the line of many foul deeds.

            The truth or silence, there is little in between ground.

            It keeps life simple and clear.

          • Vigilant

            Eddie and bob,

            Just to be clear, I would not have supported GWB if we had known for sure that WMD were not there, and I think most Americans would agree. However, trying to paint GWB as a liar goes beyond the pale.

            Congress had the same security briefings as the president, and they also came to the conclusion that Hussein had WMD. Hussein had thumbed his nose at how many Security Council resolutions? And then denied Elbaradei and the IAEA access to suspected sites?

            To be sure, I think there was some “jazzing up” of charges, possibly the Nigerian “yellow cake” thing, but on balance both Bush and Blair were confident that WMD were in storage in Iraq. It was a fact that Hussein had only temporarily suspended nuclear research, and as Blair said, there was a freight train headed our way. It would have been only a matter of time before the madman would have had his hands on fissionable nuclear material.

          • BigBadJohn

            Eddie47d

            “George Bush may have had an exit strategy but a weak one. He thought the war would be over lickety split like his dad’s. George and his team didn’t understand the Iraqi people and their deep divisions. Thus after numerous misunderstandings we still can’t get them right. Even the paper today said that Malaki won’t appoint a minister of Police or Defense. That is delaying our transfer of troops now and by July.:”

            Ya can’t fix stupid!!!!

            The three factions in Iraq have been fighting each other for 1500 years and they did not realize how deep those factions were???

    • JR

      Hmm, he did not give a rats arse about other UN resolutions and the enforcement of them, why would he do then what the UN wanted from him?

      Fact is, he was trying to prevent a power vacuum in the middle east and was trying to prevent what is going on now courtesy of the actions of his brainless son. The toppling of Saddam created a power vacuum in the middle east that Bush Jr. though he could fill by having American troops in Iraq. As we can see by the Actions of Iran and others in the area and what happen in Egypt, Tunisia and others….he was utterly wrong. Iran did not and still does NOT care about the US being in Iraq and Afghanistan they have expanded they’re power and reach ten fold since the US toppled Saddam. Toppling Saddam ( i.m.h.o. for personal vindictive reasons and because he wanted to prove he was better then his father) was the biggest mistake the US ever did.

      • Vigilant

        JR,

        “Hmm, he did not give a rats arse about other UN resolutions and the enforcement of them, why would he do then what the UN wanted from him?”

        And what other resolutions are you talking about? Source and facts, please. Bush’s UN coalition was calculated to stave off world criticism, and he did as was agreed: he retreated when the objective was accomplished: to get Hussein out of Kuwait. Further action would have lost credibility with our allies.

        “Fact is, he [Bush I] was trying to prevent a power vacuum in the middle east and was trying to prevent what is going on now courtesy of the actions of his brainless son.”

        Afraid you’re logic is faulty: what power vacuum would have been prevented by invading Iraq the first time? On the contrary, the maintenance of power was preserved by keeping Hussein in charge of the country.

        “The toppling of Saddam created a power vacuum in the middle east that Bush Jr. thought he could fill by having American troops in Iraq.”

        I’ll agree with you on that. There was no need to invade the second time. Clinton’s north and south no-fly zones were effective in keeping Saddam bottled up, and Saddam seemed to have abandoned his plans to dominate the ME. Bush’s plan, I believe was to engage in “nation building,” a concept he actually campaigned against since it was Clinton’s baby.

        The thought was to insert a democratic form of government in Iraq, which would by some miracle spread to the rest of the area. All he succeeded in doing was to destabilize Iraq and embolden Iran.

        “As we can see by the Actions of Iran and others in the area and what happened in Egypt, Tunisia and others….he was utterly wrong. Iran did not and still does NOT care about the US being in Iraq and Afghanistan they have expanded they’re [sic] power and reach ten fold since the US toppled Saddam.”

        He may have caused the area to explode in turmoil as a result of democratic institutions emplaced in Iraq, by giving some hope to the masses in other ME countries, we’ll probably never know.

        “Toppling Saddam ( i.m.h.o. for personal vindictive reasons and because he wanted to prove he was better then his father) was the biggest mistake the US ever did.”

        That is a completely unsubstantiated charge as regards his motives. But, reluctantly, I have to agree that toppling Saddam may have been the single greates error in our history. Only the future will tell.

        • BigBadJohn

          wow I agree with you…..

          Saddam was an evil man and his son was worse, but they held Iraq together.

          As soon as GWB started the war drums, I said that a democracy in Iraq would be like handing it over to Iran since the majority of people sympathize with Iran. That is what makes the transition of power so tricky.

  • anonymous1964

    I disagree with your assessment of Reagan’s military aid to Iraq. The majority of Iraq’s weapons were provided by the former Soviet Union, French, Spanish, Italians, and Brazilians. Overall, the USSR supplied about 85% of Iraqs weapons. When the Soviets curtailed exports to Iraq, other Eastern Bloc nations readily filled the void. The United States provided helicopters and artillery amounting to approximately 3% of Iraqi equipment. This hardly counts as “arming Iraq to the teeth” as you suggest. I retrieved this information from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists Jun 1987.

    Remember that Iraq was seen as a tool to counter the growing sphere of Iranian influence in the region.

  • s c

    John, our presidents (over the last 40 years or so) have been a combination of uninformed, stupid or both. They are always surrounded by ‘special, hand-picked advisors’ who see to it that our “leaders” are told what puppet masters want them to do and say and/or know.
    This policy controls every party, and it keeps the American people ignorant and reliant on those who don’t put enough effort into cleaning house WHILE THEY”RE IN OFFICE. Anyone who gets into the WH and has already sold out makes matters worse.
    You could say that America is always short on representation, we’re always over-taxed and some citizens dare to talk about state-of-the-art politics and deny that such a scenario is even possible. Career politicians reinforce this insanity, and once again WE ARE SCREWED.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      SC… And with the advisors Barry has picked, we are more than screwed! If anyone thinks that Barry is maintaining a good relationship with those int he MIddle East, it’s because NWO is making it seem that way. They have the MSM bought and paid for along with Barry and his buddies.

  • Rdotex

    WARNING:

    This is the mentality of those that elected BO in the first place. They STILL believe what he says, despite all the blatant lies he’s been could telling, and think he can do the job, so his defeat in 2012 is NOT necessarily a sure thing. They totally overlook his past associations, lack of any meaningful experience and absolutely NO personal integrity.

    We MUST not give up the fight against all the illegal votes, illegal campaign contributions, etc that got BO elected, or he could be re-elected in 2012.

    • Rdotex

      I meant the above as a response to Dennis.

    • Ret

      Not everyone still believes him. Friends who voted for him wish they hadn’t.

  • JR

    Oh my,
    I wonder, if he is so smart, why did Mr. Myers never run for office of the president of the United States? Did he ever really get involved in the government…I mean hands on as in representing the people?
    I mean, common, he obviously is smart enough to make all those assertions without having the daily briefings and without having access to facts and information the presidents have and we the people don’t have.

    I just lol at everyone that sits somewhere in a chair and pretends he knows what is really going on. This country is full of arm chair generals and arm chair presidents. Go run for the office and show us all how much difference you will make make….hint…there will be NONE. Unless you do that, nothing you will say about any president has any credibility in my eyes.

    • Raggs

      JR… are YOU sure that you are not talking about obama instead of Mr.Myers?…

      • JR

        Raggs,
        As screwed up as Obama is,and as much as I do not like him, at least he had the balls to run for office. And for that I respect him.
        I did not see where Mr. Myers ever run for ANY office to represent the people, yet he and all the other arm chair presidents on this forum are having the gall to criticize. People of all different political directions spout out so much nonsense every day and on purpose try to sow discontent (follow the money…for Mr. Myers, a great economy and a great president would be the worse thing ever, he could not peddle his gold tot he sheep) This whole article is utterly laughable.

        • Raggs

          obama regrets his so-called presidency. I read an srticle yesterday on the Fox channel, obama stated that he would rather be the president of China than the USA… Reason being… The people in China have no choice to what the government does, the people have to do what they are told no matter what or else…

          I take that as meaning obama wants a dictatorship…
          He thought he could pass enough laws and regulations in the US to fit his ( communist )agenda… He by NO means must be re-elected!

          • JR

            Absolutely,
            Electing him was a mistake and I do not agree with his politics, I do not agree with most of his decisions, but I am also realizing, that most of his decisions are made because of the intelligence and reports he receives that we don’t have access to.

            Do I respect him as a person? Yes, I respect that he had the balls to run for this election and stuck to it to win. Do I respect him for his political views? Absolutely not. Do I respect him in the function and office of the president? Yes, after all he is the elected leader of this country even though I did not vote for him, enough people did for him to be in this position. I will never call him names, first it is absolute childish and immature to do so, and second he does represent the United states of America and even though I did not vote for him, he still represents me. Calling him names is denigrating this country.. I passively support even though I don’t agree with what he is doing. Why would anyone call him names and show our enemy that we are divided and thus an easy target? I disagree with him and his politics, but he is still my president and I will show our enemy that we are united period. It takes more effort to disagree but be united then to disagree and behave like a 5 year old having a tantrum in the store.

          • Raggs

            JR.,…
            I do respect what you are saying…
            I have a much harder time giving respect to obama due to his lack of leadership and apology tours related to this country. The office of presidency of the US should be respected throughout the world, we do not have that anymore.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JR,
            Then Nobummer is childish himself!! He has publically called the TEA party people names, has even called some members of congress names as well. A person gets as much as they hand out!!

          • Eddie47d

            Then Joe I owe you a whole lot of smack. LOL

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            And everyone here that is conservative, including my self owes you double!!!!

          • Eddie47d

            Joe; I especially owe you a few!

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          JR… Obama didn’t need balls. He had Soros and NWO. They groomed him and set him up. They have hid his past and have been able to make those of us who doubt him to be self-doubters for thinking about doubting. They have bought and paid for the MSM to make him a ‘rock star’. Balls…. what balls?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Robin,
            NOT EVEN BBs!!!

  • http://Verizon Bud G.

    It appears Jarrow has a good reading of the middle east.

    I, however, have always felt that we have lost too many soldiers in a futile effort to stabilize countries in the middle east. All have a history of ethnic infighting which has been in existence for a few thousand years and nothing we do will change that. When we withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan, the Sunni and Shiites will be waring among themselves and their governments will not have the ability to control them. Iran will continue in their quest to control the entire middle east but internal strife may change this. We should be concentrating on those countries with which we have a good relationship in that area and protecting them. We certainly do not have that with Iraq or Afghanistan regardless of what many think and their leaders are corrupt.

    We should be relying more on NATO than the United Nations in resolving matters regarding the middle east. The United Nations is a do nothing, useless organization. Sanctions accomplish nothing. It is my view that it is just a matter of time before the entire middle east explodes into war because we and the countries of Europe have ignored the Islamic influence. The end result will be disastrous for the world of Islam as the Sunni and Shiites fight among themselves for control.

  • jopa

    Enceef: You hit the nail right on the head.I remember when Bush and Chaney were not very pro Israel and decided to be the tough guy and stand up to them.Along comes AIPAC the pro-Israeli lobby group to let them know who is really running things in the US and ME.It wasn’t long before they realized where the money and power were in this country and they were bent down kissing butt.Usually when you hear of a mega scandal in the US there is usually a Jewish American name attached to it.LIke a Goldman,Feinstein,,Maddoff,Geitner and the list goes on.Am I an anti Semite? No, just giving a little reality check.Most people are afraid to tell it like it is because they don’t want to be called names by idiots or get their feelings hurt.When people die and our country goes broke it is time to investigate all avenues that have led us where we are today.Thank you

  • chupaa

    They all get Fs….since 1948 our policy in the Middle East is to side with the creation of a country Israel and to bring the rest of the Arab nations especially the PALESTINIANS to their knees…All b/c they felt a burden and feeling sorry for the horrible atrocities hitler had done, so the world to make them feel better said go ahead take Palestine we will support you against these Bedouins they are not a people. Ever since then animosity has grown into what is happening now in this world…! You can disagree if you want but if you can see the light then we will always be in this situation we Americans are in…instead why not be even handed in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict instead of siding only on the Israeli sides. We should have not helped all the dictators, this also pissed of the the Arabs….we have no one to blame but ourselves for allowing our Presidents to do what they have done….and not just the US but the rest of the UN member countries. Instead lets we should help the people ….educate them in a way that would keep them away from extremism by assisting them with their economies like what we did in Japan and Germany….! This would give a President an A…

    • Conservative at Birth

      It is too late to abandon our support of Israel. Are you anti-semetic?

      • chupaa

        See that’s the problem with people like you, you shout bloody anti-Semitic just because we don’t agree with its policies…Palestinians are Semites or did you forget that too…!

        Being Anti-Israeli policies does not mean you are anti-Semite in fact is a scare tactic Israeli lobby loves to use and Most Americans are so scared they are afraid to side on what they believe…its just another fear mongering tactic among people like you and its beginning not to work… finally! You might want to ask some of my good Jewish friends and my Israeli friends to see if I am anti-Semitic…I am an American with Palestinian roots….!

        C

        • http://?? Joe H.

          chuppa,
          Gee, If everythying is so one sided how did they ever agree to a treaty between them a Egypt? There have been treaties with the Palistinians as well and the greater number of them have been broken by the Palestinians!! You bemoan the deaths of children in the Palestinian community, yet you say NOTHING about the rocket launchers that the Palestinians mounted on top of schools and launched into an open air market instead of military targets in the hopes that the Israelies would not fire back at a school and indeed they held off for a very long time, longer than even you would, I garner!!

          • Vigilant

            And let us not forget that, when Ehud Barak was in charge, he gave in to 95% of the demands of Arafat, and Arafat turned him down flat.

            So much for Israeli “intransigence”.

    • DaveR

      Is it even possible to educate those under the dominating influence of Islam? The “Palestinean” people under the “leadership” of Arafat destroyed much of Lebanon and were kicked out, rejected by Egypt, and refused a settlement offer from Israel that would have given them recognition as a nation and much of the land they sought. In a recent poll, vast majority of Egyptians indicated they want Sharia law. There can never be a true, permanent peace with any people who follow Islam because its holy scriptures require jihad against those who do not accept Islam.

      • chupaa

        Palestinians did not refuse the settlement with Israel, it was not a settlement that anyone in their right mind would except…!

        As for educating the people under the influence of Islam, well we wont know unless we tried, it may too late for the radicals now but for the rest of the millions its worth trying to educate them, help with their economies which in turn would give them hope and a chance rather than allow the fundamentalist to brainwash them….!

  • http://Yahoo Michael Eckert, Sr.

    You give a higher grade then i would. I would have failed all the presidents. Why are the taxpayes of America paying for this so caleed war with our tax money, and the blood of our troops, AND GET NO BENEFITS OUT OF IT? WHAT IS THE PRICE OF GAS IN BAGDAD? COMPARED TO OUR PRICES?
    WITH WAR YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO REEP THE BENEFITS, OUR STUBID LEADERSHIP PAY’S , WOW HOW STUBID ARE WE?
    THANKS

  • Hal

    The stupidity of our Presidents over the last 30-40 years has been
    to allow the Arab countries to control the world’s oil supplies, and
    allow them to get richer and finance terrorism. Donald Trump has it
    right when he says we continue let politics dictate our lack of will, and negotiating skills. We spent over a trillion dollars on wars to defend Kuwait, liberate Iraq, and Afganistan. What did the U.S. get in return? Did Kuwait compensate us? Iraq, with its vast oil supplies, was supposed to pay us for our costs of the war. Not politically correct, however. All of the presidents you mentioned, including Carter, deserve an F. Clinton, and Obama are the worst, allowing terrorism to spread because of political correctness, and the lack of will,and negotiating skills to deal with the middle east… and China and Russia as well.

  • Raggs

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/03/14/michael-goodwin-does-obama-wish-president-china/

    I put this link here so the people coming in will be able to see it.

  • Jim

    You forgot to mention the worst president the present one, Jimmy Carter. His blundering set up the region to the extent that it would be a booby trap any ensuing president. He allowed a monster to be created in Iran and other mid east countries.
    Reagan tried to combat Iran dominating the area, but allowed Iraq to
    turn into a monster.
    Bush one had the chance to quell the fires, but bowed to UN pressure and stopped short of success.
    Clinton paid the region no attention. When he was given the chance to cut off the head of the monster (Osama Bin Ladin) he ignored it.
    He butchered the US intelligence community, setting up the lack of intelligence to base future actions on. His administration set up the wall of separation between intell forces and law enforcement leading up to 9-11.
    Bush two acted on the intelligence provided by the world intelligence agencies. We still don’t know if Saddam had or was working on atomic weapons. We do know he had weapons of mass destruction in the form of gases, because he actually used them on his own people and Iran.
    The liberals have turned this into a full denial of WMD’s. Bush two dropped the ball by atttempting to fight the war in a politically correct manner (not allowing troops to return fire at mosques, etc.)so as not to upset muslims.
    Obama hasn’t a clue, so he just makes stupid statements that are almost immediately countered by members of his own administration. He makes sweeping promises he has no way of fulfilling.

  • Jim

    That should have read “The worst president other than the present one”.

  • Dave from Ohio

    Some other factors:

    George H.W. Bush was given authorization by the US Congress and later, the UN, drive the Iraqi forces out of Kuwait. They explicitly did NOT authorize incursions into Iraq.

    Many people have forgotten that Bill Clinton directed thousands of air and cruise missile attacks on Iraq during his tenure in the White House. Some historians are now beginning to realize that the 9/11 attacks were a retaliation by Middle East radicals who used a method and weapons that were available to them.

  • Frank

    John,

    I’m wondering if you would consider commenting on President Carter and his tactics of handling our energy independence.

    I personally think the way to handle the ME is to cut of their revenue source, but that means us (as in the US) moving our economy away from oil to a mix of other resources (much of which could be offered by renewable energy which BTW create orders of magnitudes more jobs than oil exploration and refining.) If you can’t tell, I happen to be an Electrical engineer with an energy focus.

    Best
    Frank

  • http://www.spiritjewelry.info Suzanne

    Mr. Myers…
    You are presuming that any of these presidents were actually making decisions… indeed they were all schills for the corporate elites. Anytime any of them (like Reagan) attempted to make their own decisions regarding what was best for the U.S., they were threatened into submission. Most of the U.S. foreign policies make no sense whatsoever… our government still sends billions of dollars to third world dictators, still props up various fascist regimes and is actively persuing a course of empire building through destabilization of other governments.

    • Carlucci

      Including destabilization of this government. Their mission is to turn America into another banana republic…….

    • Moonsi

      Good point.

  • http://Google Helmut S Lenko

    Very interesting comments all….
    except NO one noted that bin Laden and the Bushes were business partners
    for years. So why did Geo.jr. seem to go out of his way, to avoid
    a confrontation with his old jihad pal? Paki/Afghanistan are well on their way to “failed states” status; and Iraq & Iran are close to implosion. The only “winner” is China, with its expansionist vision.
    Insofar as Presidential ratings go: most are C, at best. These wars
    have bankrupted a once proud American nation.

  • Richie

    Anyone else read this and wish it included names like Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and Harry Truman?

    I wish I could compare the old presidents whose popularity only increases with each passing term and how they would have handled things in the Middle East. I guess it is just because I enjoy comparing things like Sports teams and who would win.

    Who would win in a WMD Inspection: Bush or Taft?

  • F Philpin

    I suppose it would be touching the third rail, but I’m going to say it anyway. Had America heeded George Washington’s sage advice and stayed away from alliances and such, and to bring things up to date–simply bought the oil we needed and stayed out of the Mideast’s political morass, we’d have been far, far better off. But NO, we had to ally ourselves with Israel, who became our foreign policy puppeteer, feed them asymmetrical military aid and otherwise ignore their expansionist outrages. Simply put, the Towers came down because we made Israel our “chosen people”. I suppose this will raise all kinds of brouhaha, but so be it. It’s the absolute incontrovertible truth. Just as any Arab. I am not advocating anything, I am simply stating, had we not let Jews in the US and Israel and its AIPAC lobby so thoroughly run the show, we would be a neutral trading nation, not a target.

    • texas58

      F. Philpin,

      If you think your statements about Israel and the ME are “incontrovertible truth” then you are closed minded and by definition incapable of either knowing or learning what the truth actually is. Amazing how Israel sitting on that little postage stamp of land with few natural resources earns them such hatred and calumny, while the Arabs sit on a huge landmass with many natural resources. Why is it the Arabs won’t make peace? Why do they hate Israel so much? Why is it the ME has been such a mess for hundreds of years, though for the vast, vast majority of that time Israel didn’t even exists as a nation? Remember, the US first had to start dealing with Arab terrorism and piracy in the 1700′s. That had nothing to do with Israel. So, F. Philpin, are you capable of tempering your hatred of Israel and the Jews long enough to learn what really is truth?

      • F Philpin

        Well, Texas, I was right! Simple statements of the truth do indeed stir the passions. I do feel that I am neither as naive nor untutored as you feel I am. My CV, in all probability, would run circles around yours. I simply state that, were you to ask an Arab (which nobody seems to want to do) you would find out why they reject Israel’s claim to the area in which they reside. The Jews holy book claims they are the “Chosen People” and that this land (Israel) was “given to them by God”? Ridiculous. It’s just a reiteration of Manifest Destiny. The Arabs hate us, I will reiterate, precisely because we have given so much aid and support to Israel.

        It’s that simple. Israel’s hubris and outright theft of land, even walling it off, and the myriad other trespasses have not endeared them to the world community, that is for sure. So, in my view, we’d be well advised to acquire a stance of neutrality and let the combatants stew in their own juice. Far too many American soldiers have died fighting what really amounts to Israel’s wars. Obama may deserve an “F” in some eyes, but whatever his motivations, he is at least edging toward that neutrality. Far better for the US to bail out of there. Let American Jewry, even world Jewry, aid Israel. We should buy the oil and leave them alone.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          FP,
          you are very skilled at avoiding the fact that was thrown at you. If the Arabs are so mad at us souly because of our support of isreal, then why did we have to contend with them in the 1700s??? The Arab world is mad at the whole world that doesn’t follow the teachings of Muhammad!! I don’t therefore they probably, if truth be known, Hate me as well!!

          • Eddie47d

            That was piracy in the 1700′s (Barbary Pirates)and probably had nothing to do with religion.I doubt if the Somalia pirates of today are religious either. They are just criminals.

    • james karalis

      You are 100% on the money however most or the crazies on here lick the boots of there jewish masters !

      • Vigilant

        “You are 100% on the money however most or the crazies on here lick the boots of there [sic] jewish masters !”

        Your brown shirt is in the mail.

  • F Philpin

    Meant to say “just ASK any Arab”.

  • dstk

    an answer… follow the money!

  • Ted Zedek

    EVERY POINT YOU MAKE IS ABSOLUTELY ON TARGET, BUT IT SHOULD ALSO BE
    NOTICED THIS WAS CONSISTENT WITH JUST ABOUT EVERY FOREIGN POLICY DECISION WE’VE MADE FOR THE PAST 60 YEARS. THE LAST SMART THING WE DID
    WAS THE MARSHALL PLAN AND HELPING GERMANY AND JAPAN TO REBUILD AFTER
    THE WAR. SINCE THEN, ONE AFTER ANOTHER, WE GET INVOLVED IN THE WRONG WARS AT THE WRONG PLACE AND AT THE WRONG TIMES, WE SPONSOR COUPS AND THE PEOPLE WHO THEN TAKE OFFICE TURN OUT TO BE WORSE THAT THE PEOPLE WE OVERTHREW, AND WE STILL HAVE NEO-IMPERLIAST BLOOD IN OUR VEINS.

  • texas58

    It is strange to me how so many people here can be so anti-Israel as they are the only nation in the ME that is truly democratic and where Arabs and Jews together can get a fair shake in the courts. I think it was Golda Me’er who made the salient observation of when peace would come to the ME when she said “Peace will come when the Palestinians learn to love their children more than they hate the Israelis.” This is true. I have lived or worked in 35 countries outside the USA on every populated continent but Australia, and have yet to see any culture but Islamic culture in general, and Arab Islamic culture in particular, that will encourage their children to commit suicide in order to kill the infidel. Buddhists don’t do that, neither do Christians, Hindus, Jews, Shintoists or Taoists. Only the Muslims. So, the anti-Israelis here would do better to look at the real reason for ME strife, if ME peace is what they really want.

    • Dale on the left coast

      There will never be peace in the ME . . . why? Because as long as Israel exists . . . the devil-book of the muzzies is WRONG. It says allah (the moon g0d) gave the land to them. But the OT says G*d gave the land to the Jews . . . only one book is correct. Despite being vastly outnumbered, attacked numerous times Israel has prevailed. Why do you suppose that is?

      • Karolyn

        Why does it have to be that only one book is correct? They are both wrong!

        • Vigilant

          And your authority for that comment is….?

  • Bob

    You left out Jimmy Carter. He started the downfall by turning on the Sha and letting the extremests get in charge in Iran.

    • Eddie47d

      We blundered by setting up the puppet Shah reign,but we also blundered by ignoring the Iranian culture. That set the Revolution in motion. Foreign influence and cultural indifference.

  • James

    There’s a simple explanation, the U.S. has an Israel-first foreign policy, especially in the Middle East. President W. Bush said: “An attack on Israel is an attack on the United States.” This has been our policy since 1948 when Israel was ‘officially’ created. And as long as most Christian Americans continue to believe Jews are God’s Chosen People, that will be our policy.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      James… I hope that will be our policy. The Jewish nation is God’s chosen people. He gave them the land that the Palestinians claim to be theirs. God’s law will prevail, regardless of what man puts us through.

      • james karalis

        The two of you are what i call crazy christians , The zionest jews are the problem , we got on the wrong side of WW2 we should have helped the Germans the world would be a better place today if we did .

        • http://?? Joe H.

          well james, after that statement, I can see there are still a few idiots on this site!!!

          • Vigilant

            Worse than than…he has a criminal mind.

      • James

        Robin, You’re confusing the deniers of Christ with God’s Chosen People. John said (2 John 7): “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”
        In 2 Samuel 7:10 we read: “Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more: neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more.”
        That prophecy was written back when all twelve tribes were in Palestine, under King David, thus this place from which the twelve tribes of Israel will move no more cannot possibly be Palestine. Also, Israelites are all of the same ethnicity. Arthur Koestler’s book “The Thirteenth Tribe” admits that over 80% of today’s Jews are not the descendents of the biblical Israelites.

    • Dale on the left coast

      The Balfour Declaration of 1917 created an Arab state . . . Jordan and also set in motion the creation of the Jewish state israel, which didn’t officially happen till 1948 with the Un declaration. Of course the arabs went nuts . . .

    • james karalis

      Yes you are right !

  • NT

    Jimmy Carter was trying to disengage in the interferrence of the poliotics of the region. The European heads of state were in agreement and let Komanie(S) go home with the ezpactation that the religious basis of his movement would bring peace to the region. He led a fascist revolution that produced a facist government. Telling an Irani that they would have a fascist government while studying in France b rought a negative, “No, we won’t.” Carter’s policy would have had a chance if the stupid Reagan had not been elected.

    George Bush listened to his vice president and we started down a road THAT COULD NOT BE SUCCESSFUL. Now everyone is trying to blame the opposite political party for the presednt situation. The Arab students in American are from wealthy families that have support their domination of the poor for centuries. They abuse their special status in America and will probably forget their good uncontroled situation in America. They will keep relying on their religion as the basis of their lack of adjusting to a better world.

    • Vigilant

      “Carter’s policy would have had a chance if the stupid Reagan had not been elected.”

      Sorry, the “inconvenient truth” of history belies your contention. Are you trying to revise history to the extent that Reagan will be blamed for the Iran hostage crisis? It was his election that ENDED the crisis!

      Typical leftist propaganda.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Duane

    I think you need to go back to Jimmy Carter, after all he is the one who forced the Shah out of Iran and opened the door for the rise of Radical Islam through there radical leaders

  • Always Right

    Hey boss, our troops did NOT stop at the Iraqi border. Read Schwarzkopf’s book. They rolled clear into Baghdad and stopped only when the UN said it was time to stop. Unfortunately, when you’re working under UN guidelines with a UN coalition, you follow their lame-a$$ed rules. I know a tanker who was actually inside the city of Baghdad when they stopped the advance. They were champing at the bit to roll straight on through and push the remnants of the Republican Guard out the other side. So close, yet so far….

  • ZELDA LEE HOOVER

    TO BAD THERE ISN’T A LOWER GRADE THAN F… F- ? THE BEGINNING OF ANY IMPROVEMENT ANY WHERE IN OUR FED. WILL HAVE TO BE GETING O’BUMMER OUT… I AM DEFINITELY NOT AN ISOLATIONIST, BUT THE BEST POLICY RE: FOREIGN POLICY, SHOULD BE “MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS” AS IN OUR PERSONAL LIVES. RE: ISRAEL, GOD’S PROMISES WERE QUALIFIED BY “OBEDIENCE TO HIS LAWS. THEY FAILED AS SURELY AS ADAM AND EVE FAILED, WITH THE SAME RESULTS. IT WAS NOT RIGHT FOR HUMAN GOVERNMENTS TO “RESTORE” WHAT WAS LOST UNDER GOD’S LAW!!!

    • Raggs

      According to eric holder “F” is the new passing grade and if anyone makes a grade above the “F” that person must be a racist.

  • jopa

    Tex58;Several on this site explained what caused the trouble in the ME but you are unable to process that information for some reason.We don’t really need Israel as a partner in the world today they need us and always have.One of the main reasons we are at war today is because of the way the US protects and gives so much money and weaponry to Israel and that little country starts to push it’s weight around like they are the big bully on the block.They really do act pretty cocky because of the American backing they get.

  • http://com i41

    Always Right, it was the Anus Powell that did not want to hurt the UN feelings, who told Bush 1 to stop, instead of finishing the job. Anoter crossbred affermaitive action worthless jackass rino. The same s–thead that backed Onumnutt since he was black. Where in hell is the Bucktoothed idoit Carter, who downsized and cut funding for troops and the military, like Whorehound and Onumnutts, plus every pusified dumbocrap.

  • jopa

    i41;Now now what did I say about your language before.You are starting to sound like a graduate of Anus Roberts University.

  • professor

    I really get tired of the United States being blamed for everything that happens in the world! Controlling the Middle Eastern countries doesn’t come under the job description or the ability of ANY one person. Lest we forget, these people have minds of their own, as corrupt and deviously fanatic as they are! They are barbarians no matter how sophisticated a veneer they assume. These are the “great deceivers” and they smile while plotting destruction.

    Discuss, as you may, and criticize, there will be no political solution to what these Middle Eastern dictators want. Islam demands that there be no peace! There are no words that guarantee our enemies will submit to our will. No words or promises will turn religious fanatics from their long-lived desire for a World ruled by the Laws of Islam. To think otherwise is an exercise in futility!

    Put the blame where it actually belongs, in the laps of countries that long for, and plot, our demise! Our presidents maybe stupid, but they are not stupid for the reasons you discuss! They are stupid for not knowing “their enemies.” They are stupid for their increasing dependency on their enemies! What they can’t do, is to control them with diplomacy!

    Supporting individual dictators, their corrupt regimes, and calling Muslims our “friends,” has proven ineffective, as evidenced by the culmination of our efforts, resulting in the 911 attack.

    This country can waste our blood and treasure on the sands of many countries for decades, without results, and I am only stating the obvious!

    • Eddie47d

      It always amazes me that the Saudi Kingdom is filthy rich beyond anyone’s imagination and then your have Dubai and their island wonderland. Arab wealth is like a fantasy for it is there but not really helping many. Iran Iraq and Libya are loaded with oil yet can’t get their act together. They hold Aces of wealth yet their house of cards are run by Jokers.

      • Carlucci

        It is because the Saudis, Kuwaitis, citizens of the UAE and Qatar are total capitalists – !!! They abhor communism. Iran and Iraq are Persian countries where a big percentage of the population apparently likes dictators.

        • Carlucci

          P.S. Libya apparently likes dictators, too. At least Ghaddafi thinks so.

  • Mary Joseph

    THEY SAY: For Presendial elections Democrats “fallin love,” “Republicans fall in line” for the next in line, and
    we often get the burgers that ‘have no beef’. Until the process becomes more refined and enlightened,we,ll all
    be stewing about the results of a very arcane, very stupid, and insulting primary season every four years. What
    A shame!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Big T

    Mr. Myers is right on! Failure after failure by corporate controlled presidents, but I disagree with pinning the blame for 9-11 on Clinton not because Clinton didn’t mess up–he did, but it happened on George Bush’s watch and the lead events are lot clearer in 20-20 hindsight.

    Unlike Pearl Harbor–NO ONE got fired after 3,000 Americans were murdered!! What’s up with that?

    Amazingly there are people who believe the nonsense that the US government has not supported Israel for fear of upsetting the Arabs–but invading two Muslim countries won’t upset them! LOL. This is how detached from reality some folks are. Keeping their heads stuck in the sand, only pulling them out long enough to watch corporate controlled right wing media like Fox news. Many of these viewers now believe Obama is a Muslin!!!

    The one man would would have made a serious change in US foreign policy, especially the Mid-east was Ron Paul, but of course he is a right wing fiscal conservative nut — so we can’t have him!

    As long as corporations have free reign to control the media and fund election runs for candidates they like–nothing will improve, nothing will change and the only guarantee for the future will be more loss of our basic freedoms and more Wars.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Well I say every president since Johnson is Guilty of some form of High Treason. Everyone of them is guilty of allowing the Federal reserve perpetuate its criminal fraud on the American People.

    • WayneT

      To stop the presidents from supporting big businesss we need to limit what big businesses can donate to the political coffers. Maybe we should limit it down TO $500.00. This way small all businesss, big and small, would have a chance. The only bad thing is that the US Supreme Court now allows any amount of of money to be donated. I thoughg that ruling was crazy and would only benefit the rich cats. Shame on the US Supreme Court.

    • Carlucci

      Obama IS a muslim. His name is muslim. To be a muslim, you have to have a muslim name.

  • Carol

    What do you mean, facing $4 a gallon gasoline?? We already have it. $4.199 yesterday.

    • Karolyn

      Our gas went down a penny this week to $3.419 and, and the closest Murphy’s at Walmart is $3.399.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Carol,
      I filled up yesterday, in the afternoon, and paid $3.459 at speedway.

      • http://deleted Claire

        $3.48.9 a gallon where I live–Illinois.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    OMG… Step away from the koolaid…the presidents nor americans do not set policy in the Middle East. Arguing about Clinton, Bush, Reagan is pointless. The suits behind the suits are the ones pulling the damn strings.
    Teh USA has NO FOREIGN policy unless you call “shooting from the hip” our policy!

  • http://www.FoundationForResponsibleTechnology.org Dr. Peter Gibbons

    I think the title should be:

    Stupid Voters. How Americans keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result, as if there is a substantive difference between big money democrats and big money Republicans.

    PG

    • WayneT

      Dr. Peter, you are so right. The majority of folks voting don’t have any idea of the ideology of the candidates they are voting for. This type of people should stay away from the pools and let more educated people vote. If people would like to express their free exercise in vote, then they should get to know all ablut the candidate they are voting for.

    • Carlucci

      Amen, Peter. Both parties are like a two-headed monster on one body.
      No difference at all. Now if only we could get a huge percentage of Americans to realize this…….

      • http://deleted Claire

        Carlucci–I am in full accord with your comments.

        • Carlucci

          Hey Claire – how did your precious pups do at the dog show – did you go to the one in England?

          • http://deleted Claire

            Carlucci–No, I did not go to the Crufts dog show in England. Sure wish I could have. I would have shown them what a real German Shorthaired Pointer looks like!! God help me, I am afraid to fly, never been on a plane and never will, let alone put one of my dogs on one!! Bad enough on the ground!! lol My husband and family love to fly. Everyone but me!
            I am training Vinnie right now, and am sending his entries in for April, and will show him all summer/fall. Gotta get him finished. He is a handsome boy, looks like the “old time” Shorthairs which I love. Then I have to show my son’s puppy. My son co-owns his puppy with a judge from Indiana. Nice pup but ornery as heck. I have been going to class and I can still run!! Hooray!!

  • KKuurus

    Sorry the failure dates back to Woody Wilson and the League of Nations, when the chopped the Ottoman Turk empire up after WWI without any historical or tribal thought.

  • james karalis

    The president that well get a A+ well be the one that is smart enough to cut our ties with israel . If it were not for the zionist jews from Europe stealing Palestine the middle east would be peaceful today .

    • professor

      Your stupidity is showing….Israel has lived on that land for the last 3,000 years!

      Bathe in pigs’ blood!

      • james karalis

        I eat ham ! I am Greek Orthodox .

        • Vigilant

          You may be Greek Orthodox in name, in reality your un-Christian anti-Semitism has no place on this forum. Your comment about Hitler not going far enough with the “final solution” makes you a poor excuse for a human being.

          • libertytrain

            Vigilant, nicely said.

  • chuckb

    Solution to the problem in Libya:

    They want a new Muslim leader, I say, give them ours.

    Solves two problems.

    • Carlucci

      You got that right. Send him packing and he can take along his fellow muslim brethren that were foolishly let in to this country.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      chuckb,
      I’ll buy that!!!! Hell, I’ll pay for the ticket if it is guaranteed one way!!!

  • Ronald Johnston

    osama obama

  • Bert Cundle

    JOHN MYERS: I am older than All of the Presidents J.F.K. On Except Bush Sr. He has a coupple of Years on me!
    J.F.K.: “B” (He was still a Catholic, & Bay of Pigs.)
    Johnson: “D” I thought he Knew more than he Said Publicly abot
    the assanation. & He was a TEXAN!
    Clinton: “A+” Monica was sent by Hillary!
    Bush Sr.: “F-” Desert Storm & Bunker Busting Was only a Power
    Play! Gave M.E. Good Reason to Hate U.S.
    He Gave W.O.M.D. to IRAQ1 For them to beat
    Iran! ( They Didn’t want to use them!)
    BUSH J.R.: “F&F&F” He knew that Iraq Had the Weapons, But.
    Didnt Know that Sudam had them distroyed.
    He Duped the U.S. CITIZENS with: In war
    Against TERRORISM, Useing BOMBS… Than
    Claimeing to make the Iraq’s our Friends
    By giving them DEMOCRACY. (AS A
    REPUBLICIAN.)Every thing he did was CRAP!
    Obomama: “D” Big Government as Socialist, is his CHANGE When
    He had the chance to fix The Bushs Mess
    He DIDN’T!
    U.S. of A. is Doomed!

  • Bert Cundle

    AND: RONALD REGAN…”F” He is what Dropped our Borders! Causing the Flood of Immigrants, like Locas.

    • Raggs

      Bert did you lose your ernie?

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Bert,
      first, it’s locusts. second, it was the progressive congress that dropped the ball on our border, not Reagan!! He made a deal with them of amnesty if they closed the border. He did and they refused!!! THEY are responsible for that!! Third Clinton lied, lied, and lied!! he lied about monica, he lied about the budget, and he lied about not inhaling!!! clinton used the money that belonged to the seniors and said “I have a balanced budget” all the while knowing full and well he DIDN’T!!!

      • Bert Cundle

        Monica didn’t take him to Court!!! NOT EVEN Hillary took him to Court… So, Where do you think that he must answer to anyone else!!!?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        bert
        where you work, do you have an office?? If you are caught with your pants down with a woman while you are supposed to be working, do you expect to keep your job?!?!?! clintoon did all this and then LIED TO CONGRESS UNDER OATH!! THAT IS HIS TRUE CRIME!!! FEDERAL AT THAT!!!

        • Bert Cundle

          There is such a thing as YOUR OWN TIME… “Break Time” & “LUNCH TIME”, You act like “YOU ARE THE BOSS OF THE PRESIDENT Of THE U.S. of A. … Ha,Ha,Ha,

  • WayneT

    Folks, go here and read about the new mercury light bulb that Congress has showed down our throat that’s made in China. At the bottom “click here to watch” on the video. Congressman Poe give an excellent video. http://poe.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=229079

  • J. BURKE

    I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU AND IN FACT YOU SHOULD KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ON THIS TO FINANCIAL MATTERS NOT POLITICS. THERE ARE TOO MANY PEOPLE INVOLVING THEMSELVES IN MATTERS THAT THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. I BELIEVE YOUR GRADING WAS ON THE CURVE TOWARDS THE LEFT WING. J. BURKE

    • WayneT

      J. Burke, whether you know it or not, this is concerning financial matters. Congress are taking jobs out of this country putting them in China has a lot to do with our financial matters.

  • mike

    I’d give them all an F for pandering to Israel. They were the original terrorist bombers and their success hasn’t been lost on anybody, particularly the Palestinians whose land they continue to steal. After 60 years I think we can stop regarding where 3 or 4 million Palestinians live as refugee camps, reservations maybe, but concentration camps would be a better description.
    Thats the boil that will continue to fester till its resolved. American policy there is stupid.

    • james karalis

      mike says: you are 100% on the money !

  • mike

    Thanks, nobody ever told me that before, I had one other thought, having been called anti-Semitic by some jack ass for saying that. The Romans wiped out, or drove off many, many tribes and nations while building their empire, its not our job to redraw the map of the world the way it was 2000 years ago,unless you want to give France back to the Celtic people, which might not be a bad idea.

  • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

    Mr. Myers:

    From your grammatically improper use of the word “but” it appears you are a very recent graduate of our public screwal system. The word “but” is NOT used to begin a sentance. You insert a comma and then continue the thought. You need to hire a remedial phonics teacher.

    Geven that, most of your thoughts on the presidents are, in my opinion, accurate. I am a huge Reagan fan, but was very disappointed with him in the barracks bombing in that it was allowed to happen and then his cut and run response.

    As far as dick-for-brains and dubya. I think the military industrial complex pressured Ole Billy boy to ignore Osama in order to help create them mess we have so they would be able to continue reaping massive profits.

    Dubya’s screw-ups were, I think, for the same reasons. I know it sounds conspiratorial.

    With Obummer, our first half-black resident in the People’s House, do you think it is a good idea to use the word “spades”?

    Rather than grading Little Barry, don’t you think you should be grading the real president? George Soros is running the country thru Little Barry’s teleprompter. Or, maybe grade the teleprompter.

    At any rate, the grade should be an R- as in Real Failure if you look at it from the perspective of the United States.

    If you look at it from the perspective of Little Barry’s real allies it fwould be an A+.

    • libertytrain

      Old Henry kind of cranky aren’t you? Criticizing his writing style – and you with your own spelling errors in the sentence.

  • mike

    This is a useless exercise, American foreign policy has been taken out of the hands of the American people and is run by the Council on Foreign Relations and criminals like Heinz Kissinger, who work for the multinationals. American taxpayers pay for it, and American soldiers die overseas, and btw, nobody’s dieing for anybody’s freedom over there. The US has no business propping up feudal kingdoms like Saudi Arabia, overthrowing elected governments like in Iran in 1953, or even going in to Kuwait in the first gulf war, (was Kuwait siphoning off Iraqi oil or not?)
    If we let our military clear the way for oil companies to drill in the middle east, why are those companies making the profit they do at our expense? That’s a partnership of sorts. That’s not free market or free trade anything, just a plain rip off. Our government, (it doesn’t matter what party) is fine with our pockets being picked, they’re all getting paid by AIPAC.
    If gas in Europe is $6 or $7 a gallon, what is it here, really? Better figure a chunk of your taxes into that $3.40 at the pump, Cause in reality its much higher. I read it costs $390,000 per US soldier a year in Iraq, but they might have figured the fraud and theft by Haliburton into that. (a no bid contractor, I might add)

  • jopa

    Old Henry:OMG Mr. Myers started a sentence with “but”. That sounds like something I would do and probably have done on this site many times.English in school was not one of my favorite subjects and I still can’t figure out why we had to diagram sentences.Just for you though I will change my name to Ben Dover and you can kiss my “Butt”.

  • Mick

    BigBadJohn says:
    March 17, 2011 at 12:34 pm
    Bush had the deficit coming down??? The only year it reversed direction was when the democrats won congress! From the treasury site:

    09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
    09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86 18 billion deficit – Clinton
    09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06 133 billion Bush
    09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16 421 billion
    09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62 555 billion

    Where do you see BILLIONS ?
    I you’re gonna to try to make a point the least you could do is get your numbers right, we’re done with the left accounting, find a new hobby…….

    09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32 596 billion
    09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50 553 billion
    09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23 574 billion – Democrats win
    09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48 501 billion
    09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49 1017 billion Banking crisis
    09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75 1885 billion
    09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79 1652 billion

    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

  • SusiQ

    Dear Mr. John Meyers
    You really know how to start a verbal war among people who read your newsletters. You WOULD make a great US president…..I can see all of these people being on your committees. You would never get anything resolved. I read briefly some, and detailed others, the 300 some comments. George started the most honest and real discussion about who really runs the country from a conspiracy level, and Meterlady responded in truth….then the war about who is right and who is wrong battled for awhile. Then “Patriot” got the truth in again,but shortly after it fell back to everyone arguing about who did what and who was to blame. Robin From Arcadia spoke more of the correct truth and Suzanne tried to get people back on track about the truth of what is really going on in this country and world and Mike gave the last best good comments. YOU Mr Meyers started your article out this way: I don’t want to speculate at what is at the root of nearly half a century of incompetence so instead of spewing a CONSPIRACY theory……..yOu WERE JUST GOING TO GRADE THE PRESIDENTS. THE ABOVE PEOPLE i MENTIONED WERE FOCUSED ON who is really running the country…WHO IS REALLY RUNNING THIS COUNTRY IS NOT OBAMA…THIS IS ALL ABOUT A CONSPIRACTY THROUGH SECRET SOCIETIES AND OBAMA IS JUST A PUPPET. There are the powers in control who want a new world order-We aren’t hearing to much of those words of late. Thats probably because before the new world order can be put into place, there has to be alot of “out of world order” happening which is going on with rapid speed. For dictators to take over, there has to be disorder, people fighting against each other (just like on this site over the article you wrote) alot of mahem, hate mongers, and when we are fighting enough among ourselves we can be overtaken….We are not a united states of America, not because of presidents but because we are disorderly, disrespectful, not patriotic, that is as a general population. People have forgotten God, He who has blessed us with this country and the patriots who formed the constitution, we have forgotten to be grateful, many are not even involved politically. At least those on this site are educated and involved and know what is happening around the world. How many people are more interested in F’in another mans Ass, and proving that he (or she) should be married than what is really happening to the rights and priviledges of ALL citizens in this country and the world and making a stand about it? America is going down. There will be a cleansing in America. Satan is reigning with his blood and horror. Before Christ can come again, America must be cleansed and it is happening.The world will be cleansed. You can shout against the Jews and Christians, cheer the Muslims or whatever you want to believe in. But prophesies will come to past. They are coming to past, fast and furious. I would love to see what takes place Mr John Meyers, on this site if you actually write an article and prove from your stand point that there truly is a conspiracy. I believe it. Satan is behind the masterminds of conspiracy. He has promised he would reign with blood and horror and he is. I, still have enough faith that in the end, the God of our world, the universe and many worlds, will have the greater power. He has loosened Satan to prove us all. My faith stands solid with Jesus Christ and God the Father and the Holy Ghost. I know there are those who put Christian faith down. I have no doubt you will step up to the plate and put me down. Christians have been put down for centuries. We all stand for what we believe in. I feel peace in my mind and heart. What is happening in our country and world has been prophesied and it will come to pass no matter what we do. So preparation for war must be to live a righteous life so that we can pull down the powers of heaven to fight our battles with us or for us and pray we will maintain our faith in God so that he will be on our side. Live or die, I intend to stand by my faith in God and hopefully live a righteous life.

    • James

      SusiQ, Well said! I agree that what is happening to our contry was prophesied but I feel compelled to oppose it, even if I fail. Jesus said, if we love Him, ‘take up your cross and follow me.’

  • SherylS

    John, I resent your calling George Bush Sr. a liar because he said that Iraqi troops were killing babies in incubators. It was, in fact, a lie, but it was one that was told to intelligence operatives by Kuwaitis. George Sr. didn’t make it up; he merely repeated what he had been told. In fact, the Kuwaiti woman who initially espoused and spread the lie later admitted that it was a lie, and that she thought it was the only way to motivate Americans to come to Kuwait’s aid.

    Second, your evaluation of George Jr. merely perpetuated the lie that Iraq was innocent of building WMDs. Iraq had plenty of WMDs. Perhaps you don’t realize that “weapons of mass destruction” include not only nuclear weapons, but also biological and chemical weapons. Under Saddam, Iraq had been attempting to build nuclear weapons, but they shut down their operations before we invaded the country. However, a few bio weapons and quite a cache of chemical weapons (which Saddam had used on his own people, for Pete’s sake) were found. So please stop telling people that no WMDs were found after America invaded Iraq; WMDs *were* found – just no nuclear WMDs.

  • The Insurgent

    Stupids. All of you stupid if you believe there were the US presidents who sold us America on the Middle east. It was the AIPAC and above all: the ZOG. America’s Zionists.
    All your rantings here are useless. American gov’t never has been free and independent. If you think it was, or it is – you read too much NYT.

  • bruce

    muslims are not civilians because they are all crazy members of the pedophile prophets cult of murders.all of our presidents have screwed up the middle east by treating muslims as if they were human when they are not instead of giving in to their demands we should have killed large numbers of them,starting with the mullahs.

  • jopa

    bruce:Whether you like it or not they are your fellow human beings and your with your rant they actually have more to be respectful for than you.When I was a young lad I even came to your defense.Whenever someone told a joke about a gay person they would call him bruce.I didn’t think that was so nice do you?People don’t like name calling.

  • dj

    John, need to brush up a little on your history re: first gulf war. Bush’s first and predominant justification for going there was to shield Saudi Arabia after Iraq occupied Kuwait. Iraq was amassing tanks and troops at the Saudi border in Kuwait. The second stated objective, which the U.N. and 30 or 40 nations supported and resolved to accomplish, was to push Iraq out of Kuwait. Sure, there was all the talk of not allowing Hussein to control all that oil, but the primary reason still remained, protect Saudi Arabia and expel Iraq from their illegal occupation of a sovereign country, Kuwait. Bush didn’t lie about any of this or twist the facts around some sort of absurd jusification. The reasons were clear and he stated them. And finally you say that when Bush had the chance to bring Hussein to his knees, we inexplicably stopped at the Iraqi border. But the U.S./allied ground forces advanced into Iraq simultaneously with Kuwait. In the 100 ground war we advanced some 250 miles into Iraq, more than half the way to Baghdad. In fact the cease fire agreement was signed out there in the desert 150 miles from the city. The question of whether we should have pressed on and brought down Saddam is not relevant. The U.N. resolution, and the agreement between the U.S. and its dozens of allies in this operation, was to expel Iraq from Kuwait, it was not to bring down the regime. The U.S. went as far as we needed to in order to destroy Iraq’s war-making capability so they could not u-turn back down into Kuwait as soon as we left. Bush played it by the book and that’s that.

  • Bob Purinton

    I’m afraid I never looked into these events as deep as some of you have…my bad.
    No matter the president we are messing in a place that has been at war for thousands of years. They fight with any excuse and once one is resolved that makes them mad and they start all over.
    These peoples greatest joy is to meet Allah with a bunch of people they took out when they went.
    How do you deal with people like that? Surely, not by assigning our morals and attitudes to people that are as different from us as the Native Americans were from us.
    Lastly, the USA has not been the greatest in its dealings with its subjects, either. Yes, even further back than Reagan.
    I believe we, as a country, are circling the drain and the situation will not improve until people are in place in any government willing to work with people instead of dominating them. I believe that an american farmer and a russian farmer would get along great if they were both dropped in the same fields. The citizenry from most any country would get along with anyone else. It’s our governments that hold us back. Sad, huh?
    Thanks for letting me rant. I hope I wasn’t too far off subject.

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