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Obama’s Latest Illegal War

April 8, 2011 by  

Obama’s Latest Illegal War

I’m so mad about Libya that, in my mother’s inimitable phrase, I could chew nails and spit bullets.

And no, I’m not talking about our pusillanimous leader in the White House, who can’t even get his Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense on the same page. I’ll get to that bunch of dishonest incompetents in a moment.

No, what set me over the top this morning was what is supposed to be the nation’s most influential conservative publication, The Wall Street Journal. In a series of articles and editorials, this once-proud bastion of Americanist values has become nothing but a shill for neoconservative empire-building.

Did you see their scolding of Haley Barbour last week? They were furious at the Mississippi Governor and potential Presidential candidate for not standing four-square behind our military action against the Gadhafi regime. What dastardly deed did Barbour commit? Let me quote what he said and you decided if the WSJ editorialist was right in getting so outraged:

“What are we doing in Libya? We have to be careful about getting into nation-building exercises, whether it’s in Libya or somewhere else. After all, we’ve been in Afghanistan 10 years.”

Does that make you want to stand up and shout treason?!? That seems to have been the reaction at the paper’s Wall Street offices. And they didn’t mind lecturing our lawmakers on what the “responsible” (their word, not mine) response to this crisis should be:

“The goals of Republicans ought to be to prod Mr. Obama to push for a faster resolution that ends with the toppling of Gadhafi and his sons from power.”

Excuse me, but may I ask why?

Why on earth should this country spend millions of dollars, risk hundreds of our servicemen’s lives and end up killing and maiming innocent women and children (and some adult men who admittedly aren’t so innocent) for “regime-change” in Libya? What the heck business is that of ours?

According to The Wall Street Journal, “the credibility of U.S. power is essential to maintaining our influence in [the] Middle East…”

I’m sorry, but this is the same sort of “make-the-world-safe-for-[our-version-of]-democracy” that led to the ruinous wars of the 20th Century. Have we learned nothing from the past?

According to our Founding Fathers and the Constitution they created, the only people who can order our men and women to go to war are the people’s representatives in the U.S. Congress. It is Congress, and only Congress, that has the duty, the right, and the legal obligation to make that decision.

Yet our President is more guided by what the moral lepers in the Arab League and the United Nations think than our elected representatives here at home.

Without a declaration of war, U.S. military actions in Libya are unConstitutional. Period. In a saner world, Congress would be drawing up the articles of Obama’s impeachment as you read this.

But no, that’s not what our empire-building elitists want. We’re supposed to be the policeman of the world. Or to quote that same odious WSJ editorial again:

“One reason to intervene in Libya is to show the Assads and Ahmadinejads that the West is willing and able to act against tyrants who slaughter their own people.”

Oh, yeah? Then what about the genocide in Rwanda, which thus far has claimed the lives of more than one million innocent men, women, and children? Many thousands of these sad victims suffered the most bestial indignities, including repeated rape and massive torture, before they were slain. Have you heard Obama mutter one word of protest, or send one rifle or bullet, to assist any of the Africans there for whom he would be expected to feel some sympathy? What a bunch of lying hypocrites we have ruling over us!

And yet The Wall Street Journal editorialist has the unmitigated gall to chastise the Governor of Mississippi with these words:

“Mr. Barbour’s glib resort to this trope of the isolationist left suggests he hasn’t thought very hard, if at all, about foreign policy.”

So there you have it, folks. Unless you’re willing to support illegal military action, you’re some sort of boobus Americanus, to use H.L. Mencken’s favorite phrase. Well, count me among the people who haven’t yet bought the liberal-CFR line that war is peace, bad is good, wrong is right—and that it is our solemn duty to use our money and our Marines to intervene in every country around the globe that doesn’t behave as we think it should.

This is madness. And it’s got to stop.

Say It In Song
Let’s try to end this grim account of an even grimmer story with a smile. I’m sure many of you remember The Kingston Trio. They were perhaps the most famous folk group of the ’50s and ’60s. I don’t think any of the original members are still performing today, but I believe there’s a group somewhere with the same name, singing all of their old hits.

Back in 1962, the trio (Bob Shane, Dave Guard and Nick Reynolds) released a song that I thought was weird, even for those very weird times. Anyone remember “The Merry Minuet”? You can still find a performance on YouTube. The structure of the song was strange, too. After singing one line, the group then sort of hummed for a bit; then sang another line; then hummed some more.

Printing the lyrics won’t convey how funny this all sounded, but let me try. Here are the first eight lines of the song:

They’re rioting in Africa,
They’re starving in Spain;
There’s hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain.
The whole world is festering with unhappy souls;
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles,
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch.
And I don’t like anybody very much!

I think it was Nick Reynolds who blurted out that last line. (But if I’m wrong, I’m sure an Alert Reader will correct me.) On the recording I have, much laughter followed that declaration.

Anyway, after describing all of the terrible things that were happening all over the world—and remember, folks, this was 49 years ago—isn’t it amazing how little has changed since 1962? The trio ended on what purported to be a note of optimism:

But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud
For man’s been endowed with a mushroom-shaped cloud.
And we know for certain that some lucky day
Someone will set the spark off and we will all be blown away!

More laughter followed that rather grim description of “some lucky day.” The song then ended with the following prediction:

They’re rioting in Africa,
There’s strife in Iran.
What nature doesn’t do to us
Will be done by our fellow man.

I’ll have more to say next week to “our fellow man” about the people who are misleading and betraying us. In the meantime, stand up for what you know in your heart is right. Condemn the illegal and dangerous course our president has set this country on, both at home and abroad.

And keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • DaveH

    The Wall Street Journal has been hawkish ever since I can remember.
    Good article, Chip.

    • FreedomFighter

      In my opinion, Our troops need to come home.

      What if you could “remote view”, see what can’t be seen, hear what none else hears, be somewhere they can’t possible, be. Do they walk the silver plain and view the dark holes of possibilities to find what cannot be found, maybe. To me its spooky stuff, really SPooK stuff.

      What if they really can, they do have the best training, remarkable/outstanding hit record, and decades long history, so, anyone ask what these USA military trained/CIA whomever viewers have seen “commin around the bend”?

      Maybe somebody should interview a few of these retired USA military trained remote viewers and get us all a fair article on what they say?

      Again, what if you could remote view;
      sleeping difficult I bet. I wonder if they made me write this?

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • DaveH

        Fighter,
        Have you had experience with unscrupulous people in your life, people that you know intimately enough to know they’re lying? Now, think about other mutual acquaintances. Did they believe that those people were bad?
        Maybe, I’ve just been unblessed, but I had a sociopath wife for 13 years, and a sociopath brother for my entire life.
        On the surface my wife was one sweet little lady. She had everybody but me fooled. When our marriage broke up because she was sleeping with the next-door neighbor, I announced to my dad that we were getting divorced. The first thing he said was “Now what did you do wrong?”. That’s the way it was. People only began to see the truth about her after I had written proof of her dishonesty from the court proceedings.
        My brother is a story too long to tell here.
        My point? If we can’t even know the true story about the people close to us, how can we possibly hope that there are those amongst us who can sort out the good guys from the bad guys in foreign countries? And keep in mind that they have a vested interest NOT to solve problems, because then they would be out of a job. In the corporate world the employees better solve problems or lose their job. But in Government the incentives are reversed. If they do their job well, like stopping crime for instance, they will work themselves out of a job. If they don’t do their job well, no big deal because the vast majority of them have jobs for life regardless of performance.
        We have absolutely no business trying to solve other countries’ problems. Usually there is no way that we can tell the good guys from the bad guys. If they attack us, we should hammer them hard and then butt out. But almost all of the countries we have been involved with over the last 60 years have not even come close to attacking our country.

        • stone

          DaveH. I’m not as conserned about Libya as I am about Bushe’s illegal war in Iraq. What i think needs to happen, is we need to break the two party dictatorship in D.C. and vote for anyone who is not a Dem. or Repub. Our polictics make me sick. Both parties are the same out for themselves and their party. If the gov’t shuts down the people who will be hurt the most are those in most of need. Should the gov’t shut down all of congress should not get paid. They are a part tof the gov’t and the cause because of partism politics. End the two party system.

          • DaveH

            Vote Libertarian!

          • dale

            Some in Congress wanted to impeach Bush when no WMD’s were found. Bush presented the ‘facts’ handed down to him by Clinton (who said that there were WMD’s there and that Saddam was backing Al Quada) and Congress approved the war – nothing wrong yet when Congress approves and Congressional leaders had access to the same information that Bush did.
            So, if Bush lied then so did Clinton! Irrefutable fact, except to people who want to believe lies .
            The reason there were no WMD’s in Iraq found on invasion was:
            1. Before acting against Saddam, Bush went though the tedious and time consuming delays of getting approval from Congress and the United Nations. The UN is all mouth but no action. Since most of the UN are Arab nations it might as well call it the United Arab League. Muslims are not supposed to go against their ‘brothers’. Of course the Sunni and Shiite dispute is just a ‘family quarrel’. Right?
            2. The undisputed delays gave Saddam plenty of time to clean house.
            3. According to some people I knew, military spies who used satellite observation to see who the person is on the ground from outer space, said that for during the 30+ days that it took before we arrived at Saddam’s compound that there were Russian transport planes flying to and from of the compound day and night. They flew out some to Russia and mostly to Libya, and some other Arab countries. *
            *To the intellectual and reasoning mind, what was going on? Could they possibly be removing things that Saddam did not want to be seen???? Possibly WMD’s like BOTH Clinton and Bush said ‘WERE’ there???? (Both Presidents were dependent upon the CIA and Military Intelligence for accuracy.)
            No WMD’s? Just like statistics (where ‘figures lie and liars figure’)that was not true, even though the vessels where chemical weapons were made and nuclear materials were stored were found empty (why is that?) the soldiers found enough Sarin gas to kill off well over ½ million people and there were dirty Atomic bombs that would spread radioactivity over large areas causing slow and painful death. However, our bright and politically correct people in Washington (as well as the UN) said that there were no WMD’s. The paradox is that if one dirty atomic suitcase bomb is found then it is called a WMD. ‘Figures lie and liars figure.’

            If you doubt any of these statements, just check out the facts!!

            OK! NOW many in DC do not want to call Obama’s action impeachable (which truly was without Congressional approval) . What about a President that surrounds himself with people that have had no background searches (which was done up to Clinton) and gives them power to override Congress (which is totalitarian in nature and defiant of the Constitution). In both cases, our nations forefathers would have had him kicked out of the country or have him hung. In all fairness, several modern presidents would also have been called traitors by our country’s founders (both political parties).

            The issue should be what is truth rather than ‘attack the other party!!!!’ FYI – I am not a Republican or a Democrat but call myself an American!!

          • Mike in MI

            I wonder what would happen if they ever figured out that they can shut government down for a couple weeks with some ridiculous dispute, go home and take it easy and go back to Washington, DC. Then once they’re back do the same thing all over again and keep it going indefinitely. It’d be a wonderful thing. Chris Matthews, Mr. Ed and Wretchall (Bovine)Kreutzfeldt-Jacob wouldn’t have anything to lie about and would probably start having epileptic seizures or grand mal intention tremors from neglecting their shared sociopathy: cumpulsive Tourette’s in front of television cameras.
            I know the Congress will figure it out some time – the Absenteein Chief is already practicing it.

          • Lewis Munn

            I agree. The “two party system” is NOT ordained by God or a politically acceptable substitute.

            Yet people are taught this idea in public schools all over, as tacitly right and the best. While the Press cooperates with the Government in minimalizing any system other than the DemoPublican system we have entrenched.

            A two-headed monster, where the heads bicker but the rest is united in its directions, so changing the dominant head makes little difference.

            Teaching our students to think rather than parrot might help, but that would take a long time, and be opposed by the two-headed monster, which currently is working to get our kids so busy with the “gay” programs they cannot even think about what 2+2 is, let alone real politics!

            Years ago in a town near me they had a big political debate put on by the newspaper, but only DemoPublicans were allowed in; all other parties were specifically excluded. So a couple of good organized parties were prevented from presenting and debating the issues, by a DemoPublican sponsor. The debate was, as expected, a non-debate.

          • JC

            Check this out.
            What a wealth of information at “I Hate the Media”

            http://www.ihatethemedia.com/

        • Anthony

          Quote: “We have absolutely no business trying to solve other countries’ problems.”

          A Thomas Jefferson stance, if there ever was one!

          • Kate8

            DaveH, Anthony – I have become quite a fan of Jesse Ventura. I don’t necessarily always agree with him, but I admire his guts and determination to expose the global elite and our “two-party dicatorship”.

            He says that no one interfered in Rowanda because they had no resources anyone wanted. Libya has oil.

            Here are three short interviews with Jesse, talking about his new book showing actual government documents of secret agendas:

            http://dprogram.net/2011/04/07/jesse-ventura-enough-government-cover-ups-it%e2%80%99s-time-for-a-revolution/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wordpress%2FBcwy+%28Deprogram%29&utm_content=Yahoo%21+Mail

            They are quite informative, in spite of the fact that the TV hosts try to question his credibility (they failed). Jesse doesn’t pull any punches.

            Jesse is also considering a possible Ron Paul/Ventura presidential ticket. He says we can fix this by voting for ANYONE but a democrat or republican. He is Independent.

            BTW, I just learned that Jesse lives next-door to my ex in Baja! He was at a party with him last month, and liked him a lot.

          • DaveH

            That would be great, Kate. Ron Paul and Jesse Ventura. I would vote for them.

          • Dan az

            Kate
            I would vote for that.Brains and attitude now there’s a combination for ya!

          • Carlucci

            Kate8 – Before I sign off for the evening, I would like to thank you for posting about the Kissinger/Saudi oil deal. I was totally clueless about that – knew nothing about it. I was a teenager when Kiss-ass-inger was secretary of state, so needless to say, I wasn’t paying any attention or had any interest in world affairs back then.
            I can’t believe I haven’t stumbled on that info until now, but I’m glad you wrote about it. Now I get it – just another bass-akward deal to screw the American people.

            I like Jesse Ventura, too. A lot. His t.v. show on TruTv rocks, his books are excellent, and he drives a totally bitchin’ car.

            So with that, I’ll say good night to all of the fine people who care enough to take the time to post their opinions on this blog.

            Hope everyone has an excellent and safe weekend. Night night.

          • CabotAR

            You are so right, Anthony. Our founding Father’s strongly advised us to stay out of foreign wars (civil wars) & yet here we are again…in another war.

            Might want to read this great book just out about Americans taking a stand against federal tyranny. They are just average Americans fed up with corrupt politicians. Great read so I recommend it for all. Maybe history has found our true destiny in life.

            booksbyoliver.com

            We are allowing our government to have our children killed for corporations to make profits. I am a VietNam Veteran & I see no use in these undeclared wars.

            What kind of govt. are we passing on to our children? It’s just wrong!!

          • Kate8

            Carlucci – I have posted about this before, but you are the first one to comment about it.

            What I forgot to mention this time is that, when Kissinger made the oil deal with the Saudis, the exchange was that the dollar would be the official oil currency. All oil was to be purchased in dollars.

        • FreedomFighter

          I understand DaveH.

          God bless America.

          Laus Deo
          Semper Fi

      • Myrna

        What I don’t understand is why the generals didn’t just tell Obama, “Hell, no, we won’t go”?

        • Lewis Munn

          They are trained to obey the Commander in Chief, not to have personal opinions, which might be in the way.

          A good soldier never asks the why’s, He just does and dies.

    • skip

      Chip – are you in the real world? Who started the last two worthless wars, tell me? On Libya, if Obama did not go in you were critical, if he did you were critical. You get prize along with Beck and company, Walker and group, Kasich and company as the world’s greatest hypocrites. But you are a handsome, silver haired, son of a gun!

      • JKO

        Skip, many on the right were against going into Iraq – including Beck and others. Afghanistan was a different matter because that is where OBL was at the time – at least that is what we thought.
        You seriously need to listen and read your sources before you criticise. Don’t trust what others say about them.

        A great example is what is going on with Beck and FOX right now. It’s being said that he quit or was fired. Listen to the man himself. He is leaving his TV show but will still be doing things for FOX – documentaries, etc.

        Some of the others I can’t speak to – even Chip as I have only been here 9 months. Site sources and if you are right cirticise away.

        • http://google Lubie63

          JKO,
          You are absolutely right on with your assessments.It also goes back even further with Reagan, as he went at Dictators whenever he wanted to.

      • Denniso

        The Kingston Trio done song was great and will live on because human nature doesn’t change all that much over our puny human time frame. It was written by Sheldon Harnick,who doesn’t get mentioned usually,as demonstrated by Chip.

        Chip asks why we are in Libya…the answer is so simple that he certainly knows it as well as the rest of us. He is just trying to make a political attack on Obama for the sake of damaging him. He could as well ask why we are in the middle east at all,as we have been for most of the past century. I wonder if Chip knows that we have handed most of the operation over to NATO,and if he thinks that we should have stood by and watched another blood bath?

        The rightwing wants to keep us addicted to our gluttonous use of oil,knowing that we can never be free of foreign oil w/ our consumption rate,yet Chip pretends to not know why we keep a military presence in the area and intervene in Libya?

        • JKO

          As has been stated many times in many places, we have more oil that we need right here in America.

          Let me ask this, why is it environmentally friendly to drill oil in other countries, but not here in the US????

          We in American have done and do more for the environment than almost any other nation.

          Can you say jobs boys and girls??

          • Thamera

            Thank you JKO and I would also like to know what is “gluttonous” about our use of oil and what the proposition would be for an alternative right now, especially living in the west where it can take hours to get from one place to another. Maybe I’m supposed to ride a bike or a train of bikes in my case with children in tow???

          • Kate8

            JKO – Kissinger made a deal with the Saudis – I think in the ’80s – that America would NOT produce her own oil, but would only buy foreign oil. This was part of the deal over the Saudi oil fields. We can’t drill for our own oil without breaking that deal. The environmental excuse is a cover-up.

            The oil that comes from America gets exported.

          • Denniso

            What’s glutonous about our use of oil? Don’t you rightwingers pay attention to anything but your own lives?

            America is 5% of the global population and we use 25% of the energy. How you may wonder? some of us drive the largest and most inefficient cars in the world…some of us live in homes that are the size of appartment buildings that could house 50 people… We have the largest military in the world that uses a huge percentage of our enegy…we have every kind of electric or gas guzzling machine imaginable on the earth…we think it’s entertainment to watch cars race around in circles spewing crap and getting 5 mpg…we howl in delight at monster trucks crushing smaller cars and running into ea other for our joy. America is like a fat pig sucking up oil and gas and waddling around in circles essentially doing nothing of any consequence or for any good purpose.

          • JeffH

            Denniso, all you do is bitch, moan and groan and ridicule anything you don’t like or believe and belittle everyone and anything that has a different view from you.

            If Americans aren’t good enough to suit you and Americans are just fat, stupid and environmentally abusive why don’t you consider a more eco-enviro veggie indulgent country to move to.

            You don’t like NASCAR style round-e-round racing? Only because you don’t like it do you have to ridicule it….did you know that NASCAR is using “green” technology and running on an ethanol/gas fuel mixture? Of course, why would you be expected to know that anyway.

            You’ve always been a piece of work anyway.

          • Thamera

            What is your alternative Denniso? Live in a grass hut and walk everywhere we need to go? Your blind hatred for the “wealthy” has blinded you to the average American, in my opinion, who has to drive to get where they NEED to go and that is gluttonous? Again, what do you propose Denniso? What would you like to see happen?

          • eyeswideopen

            JKO, you are aware that the oil we have, when drilled, will not benefit us right?? It will be sold in the global market and the amount of jobs created will not be that signifigant. Louisiana doesn’t even get royalties for the rigs that are presently off their shoreline. The oil companies will deplete our resources and the oil will be sold throughout the world as is the present practice. Only the subsidised oil companies will be the reaping profits…as usual. We can start drilling immediately and it WILL NOT LOWER THE PRICE OF GAS OR OIL PRODUCTS that we use. Americans are stupid about how the oil companies do business, how many billions we give them, and what happens to the oil presently pumped from our country. Drill baby, drill, will not benefit us at all. Education and information is a wonderful thing.

          • Denniso

            Hi there eyes,how are you? It’s been a while since I’ve seen you here and I hope things are going well for you. You’re right about drilling here..it’s a global market and oil producers sell where ever they choose. The only way it could directly help our situation is if we nationalized the oil industry and kept the oil for our use and at a price we chose. Of course,the rightwingers wouldn’t go for nationalizing the industry and it’s probably not a good idea anyway,unless in a time of dire emergency.

            Thamera, you ask what I would suggest to curtail our excessive oil use? Higher auto fuel mileage laws…a societal move toward smaller homes and use of solar heating,maybe tax credits for both…use of more efficient lighting and power in the huge office,gov’t and commercial buildings…immediately lower speed limits down to 60 and save 15% of all gasoline use. Consistent incentives for the use of passive and active solar energy in homes and businesses…gasoline taxes increased by a small amount to be used to research and develop alternatives to oil etc…cut the size of the military to a reasonable level and realize we aren’t the world’s policeman on our own,saving millions of gallons of gas and diesel just from training and exercises.

            If we are 5% of the world’s population and use 25% of the energy, isn’t something wrong? We use something like twice the energy per capita of western Europe…why? Are they living in caves?

          • Lewis Munn

            I can say “No jobs for Americans”!

            I can say keep your citizens barefoot and dumb and terrorized, and you can do with them what you want!

          • DaveH

            The environmental concerns of the Greens are for one reason only, Power. They want control of our lives. If that wasn’t true, why would they force those gharish wind-generators on us? Why would they be encouraging the environmentally unfriendly solar panels? Why wouldn’t they be raising bloody hell about Obama aiding Brazil in its deep water efforts? After all oil spills don’t recognize country boundaries.
            Their want control of our lives, and control of our money. That is all.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Well folks, there goes the neighborhood again!!!! We have EYES and denniso together again. The site is gonna get STUNK UP again!! Worse than having a skunk trapped in your garage!!!

          • Denniso

            Even DaveH knows that there are real environmental problems in this country and the world. DaveH has a degre in micro biology so he can’t possibly believe there is nothing to worry about regarding the environment. Even ideologues like Dave,if they have any education like he does,know that all the concerns that millions of people have for the environment is not just a power grab…Even DaveH knows better than to make gross generalizations and jump to simplistic conclusions,like he just did.

          • Kate8

            Joe H. – If we just ignored them they’d most likely go away.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Dinniso:

            “some of us drive the largest and most inefficient cars in the world”…

            You mean like Little Barry Soetoro and his massive tax payer funded limosine and the parade of gas guzzlers that traipse around with him and / or that disgusting piece of crap he is married to whenever she wants to run to the store for some special ingredient for a meal? You mean like that huge jet he fliys around it – CONSTANTLY – not to mention all the dozens of planes following him around hauling all his friends on tax payer funded trips?

            “some of us live in homes that are the size of appartment buildings that could house 50 people”…

            You mean like Albore? You know that guy who is making tens of millions of dollars screwing the public with his global warming crap while living in a house bigger than the one you are bitching about that uses more gas and electricity every month than a small town? He flys in private jets all around the glove – not in comercial jets. How about that for sucking up resources? He rides around in huge cars and limosines sucking up oil rather than ride in a Smart Car like he tells everyone else to use.

            You and your kind are so hypocritical it is incomprehesible.

            I bet you do not drive a Smart Car….

          • DaveH

            Denniso says:
            “we think it’s entertainment to watch cars race around in circles spewing crap and getting 5 mpg”.
            One would think that Denniso would be smart enough to know that the thousands of spectators, if not spending their day watching the race, would be out driving around and wasting a lot more fuel. But then, one would think wrong.

            Note, this is what’s in store for us if we let the Progressives take us further down their primrose path. They want to control our every choice, even if they have weak analytical skills. They can’t even figure out how to make their own livings without riding on the backs of others, yet they know what is best for us. What a sick joke they are.

          • DaveH

            Dumniso,
            I don’t have a microbiology degree. I have a biology degree (as well as a math degree).
            Micorbiology is the study of bacteria, fungus, and viruses. I have never been much interested in studying nasty disgusting little creatures. I would be more fascinated by Liberals if I was into that sort of thing.

          • Denniso

            DaveH, I’ll try not to assume you are as mindless as your comment sounds. You say that the race spectators would be driving around and wasting as much gas if they hadn’t driven to the race to watch cars getting 5 mpg racing around in corcles,waiting for the next crash. So is that all people can do? Is that all you can do? Either attend an utterly wasteful event in your car,or drive around in your own car wasting gas? You can’t stay home and mow the lawn,build something,repair something? Maybe go for a walk or bikeride,god forbid. How about playing tennis or softball or having a picnic? Maybe you can leave your car in the garage for one day and save a little gas and pollution.

        • bob wire

          “We in American have done and do more for the environment than almost any other nation.”

          If so, it by the nature of our disproportionate consumption. Europe is a good 15 years ahead of the US in many areas of conservation.

          I know, ~ I don’t like to hear that kind of “news” either.

          The Good News is , we are changing that at a more rapid pace today then ever before. ~

          Old men had to die along with their old ways and resistance to change for it to happen. Sadly

          • Thamera

            Bob W. You would really like us to be like Europe? Have you lived there?

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Eyes,

            You are back.Good.

          • Lewis Munn

            Unfortunately, what we are doing is NOT based on sound science, and is being pushed politically by people who know little about science, and who make big money at it and find peer status, so care not for the little people! Or the long-range effects.

            When Politics takes over Science, we are cruising for another Dark Ages!!

            Same when Pleasure pushes out Ethics!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            ‘scuse me, that would be the three stooges. denniso, Eyes, and coal miner!!! Larry, Moe, and Curly of the livingston site commentors!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Eyes is back? OMG! There goes the neighborhood! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            BW:

            As always, follow the money. How many tens of millions has Albore fleeced the public out of with his green bullsh*t. Ever look at HIS house in TN? Ever see what he rides around in? Ever notice that he flies around in PRIVATE fuel gozzeling jets?

          • Lewis Munn

            And the economical old men who saved things and made their own stuff are dying off, and we have to buy expensive “environmental” stuff so loaded with poisons if you drop one light bulb you home has to be closed for decontamination!

            This is progress?

            With the more efficient lamps, my electric bill is doubling every year from my power company being REQUIURED to burn dirty coal, and then install all the scrubbers and gizmos. And haul the filthy dirty coal in from 1000 miles away, burning fuel and spewing pollutants and raising costs all along the route!

            This is improving the Environment????

            And I presume it is Politically Incorrect to point out that there is a direct relationship between cleaning the air of dust, and global warming??

            When big volcanic eruptions put dust into the atmosphere, the global temperature drops!! We worry about a “Nuclear Winter” from big bombs putting lots of dust into the air. But it is Politically Incorrect to note that as we “clean” the air, the Global Warming gets worse!!

            I do get very tired of Environmentalists forcing things to be done that are environmentally poor in the long run.

            Oh, and San Francisco, last I was there, is no longer beautiful to come to by car. All the wind turbines turning at random on every hill is visual pollution of the first magnitude.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Come on denniso. You know its Obama/Biden/Soros war for oil. It has to be. I mean all you idiots on the left kept saying Iraq was Bush/Cheney/Halliburtons war for oil, but gee, were still there, and there aint no oil been taken yet. Imagine that. So know your demoncrats are fight two wars for oil, and you give them a free pass. Wow. You stinking hypocrite. You dirty rotten hypocrite.

          • http://naver samurai

            Right on! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Denniso

            Gee Beb…are you trying to insult me,or what? I guess that if we have any foreign interventions in the future you will continue to compare them to the iodicies of Cheny/Bush…silly.

            I never said we invaded Iraq for it’s oil,though there can be no doubt that we have been and still are interested in keeping the oil flowing from the middle east. We invaded Iraq and comitted the biggest foreign policy blunder in decades for Bush and Cheny’s egos.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        Little Barry started this war unconstitutionally. He took his marching orders from the U.N. and by-passed Congress. That is a treasonous act, but only one of many in the last two and one half years.

        Bushy at least went to Congress as required by the Constitution.

        • skip

          Kadaffi started the war – are you blind,deaf, and dumb? And we are in no war there at present. Get with it.

          • DaveH
          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            I did not realize that Kadaffi had attacked us.

            When? Where?

            The U.N. told Little Barry to jump and he did, at our expense.

            I am assuming you are in total agreement with Iraq and “Stan”?

          • JC

            skip says:
            April 9, 2011 at 12:58 pm
            Kadaffi started the war – are you blind,deaf, and dumb? And we are in no war there at present. Get with it.
            ____________________________________________________________________

            So bombing and strafing a country that hasn’t done anything to us isn’t an act of war?
            Are you drunk?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Really? Khadaffi attacked us? I missed that. He trained Al Quaida and funneled them money like Saddam Hussein? I missed that also. Seems to me the guy has been pretty docile towards us since Reagan slapped his monkey arse years ago. But if you lefties are going to demonize Bush and his admin for taking the fight to Iraq, after the terrorists continually blew up our stuff, and 9-11 was the last straw before Bush was man enough to punch back, something that Clinton couldnt or wouldnt do, but yet you give Barack a free pass, when he breaks the law and attack without a congressional approval, and without them having done anything to us, or having used their ground to train the Taliban or Al Quada. Whats up with that skip? Be consistant please, or dont be at all. If your going to attack one, you better attack the other. No spin zone here pal, no free passes to suit your agenda. Its either wrong or right. You cant spin it and have it wrong for the other guy and right for your guy. No. Thats wrong.

          • http://naver samurai

            You better be able to give exact details of how he attacked the U.S. or our troops overseas. What kind of lies are these moronic libs going to place on this site next? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • mtnmedic1

        This is exactly why Congress should have to vote, up or down whether or not to become involved in ANY COUNTRY! The Constitution makes it pretty clear where the power lies to declare war. Unfortunately, since we have decided to elect lawyers time and again to office, they have found ways to do what they want and still declare that they are functioning within the rule of law.
        The President (any President not just the Jackwagon we’re stuck with for now) chooses to “go to war” and the opposing side lines up to use it to their own political advantage. Don’t forget, that “advantage” is being paid for in blood. Not by the politicians but by those brave enough and dedicated enough to go and do.
        Isn’t it about time that those in Washington felt the fear and desperation that the men and women they send off to die feel every day in the service of our Nation?
        Things have to change America. The corruption and spineless behavior displayed by our leadership (on both sides of the isle) has become tatamount to gross insubordination. We have to stand up together, put our differences aside and start cleaning up the mess we have made for ourselves. Long live the conservative revolution!

        • Myrna

          Maybe all wars should be fought the way they used to be eons ago, when the king or leader of countries involved were the ones on the front line.

          • Lewis Munn

            Good ideas; it would certainly change their viewpoint in a hurry!

            Obama does not lead us into battle, he stays home and plays politics.

            Though he does war against the average citizens of this country much of the time, in more subtle ways than bombs and bullets, so far.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            “Obama does not lead us into battle, he stays home and plays politics”.

            And golf. And Basketball. And vacations….

      • sherriww

        @Skip:That’s the thing that bothers me,that it has been shown,in this Libya deal,that Pres.O. just could. NOT have made a RIGHT decision on this.As a for instance,one Sunday Newt G.was on tv saying”if I was president,we would already BE there”.The NEXT week,after the Pres.agreed and got started,Newt was back on tv saying”I don’t think we should have gone in there!”They played the 2 tapes side by side,to show how the President could NEVER please these guys because all any of them want is to make him look wrong, no matter WHAT he does about anything!That said,much as I am always in the Presidents corner,I don’t want us in there either ,and,watching the Pres. In the days before we went in,it was VERY plain,right on his face,that HE did NOT WANT to go in either,so I cannot see WHY he agreed-something(AND NOT NECESSARILY ANYTHING SINISTER EITHER!)went on behind closed doors that got him to agree.I just hope we leave it alone soon now

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Kind of like the Communist Democrat Party and Bush….

          He had to go. His fellow communists at the U.N. told him to. I wonder if he got Soros’ permission first?

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          He is clueless what to do. Every week he leans to whichever way the polls tell him to lean. He says things he doesnt mean, and does things that are the total opposite of what he said a year ago. He is just the puppets head, with his masters behind the scenes pulling the strings. He has proven a long, long time ago, that he is not a leader. It is just not in him. He is a blind follower.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      I was thinking the same thing…they have schills in the financial reportings as well…Zombies–all of them! I will NOT today EVER take one or trust one single source of information.

      If I read something my personal rule is to verify it no less then three times. If in that process I find something else, then my work doubles. Before I can safely make an intelligent decision I find I must do this. There are misinformation specialists out there trying to influence public perception with every issue.

      So for me the days of sitting down and reading a paper with morning coffee are now toast! I take notes and move on to verify the details. usually by the end of the day, I have enough facts to decide where I stand on whatever important issue there is. yes, its a PITA and sometimes it takes more then a week!

      • JeffH

        Bitter Libertarian, you are correct about “verify”.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          JeffH,
          Wasn’t it Reagan that said “Trust, but VERIFY!”?

    • http://comcast.net Jim

      Chip would complain if Obama had ignored Lybia.

      • JC

        Chip would complain if we didn’t spend more money we don’t have?
        If we didn’t put more of our bravest in the line of fire for NATO and the UN? He would complain if we didn’t involve ourselves in more nation (dependent ghetto) building?

        I doubt that very much.

    • herman richardson

      I believe that that all ALL involved in getting this country in this war mongering should be tried for war crimes, each and every one of them

  • Vigilant

    WSJ quote: “Mr. Barbour’s glib resort to this trope of the isolationist left suggests he hasn’t thought very hard, if at all, about foreign policy.”

    I think it’s a badly outdated position to identify only the left with “isolationist” views. Conservatives and Libertarians have realized for a long time that presidential forays into the world of offshore combat without Congressional approval are unconstitutional.

    While the Dove-Hawk paradigm has most often been equated with the Liberal-Conservative dynamic in the past, the realtionship no longer holds water in today’s America.

    The intelligent American has never believed that nation building is a worthwhile enterprise, and sees that it does more harm than good. Not only is it a terrible waste of people and money, it is a bad misreading on the part of American policy makers that leads to the arrogant belief that the world will welcome our style of government. Worse, it assumes that every other nation wishes to share our cultural values.

    Chip’s point is well taken. Nation building today is just a cover story to intrude into the affairs of sovereign nations that may be of some use to us, and the nobility of its aims is belied by our inaction in places like Darfur, Rwanda, Burundi, Somalia and elsewhere in the world where the need for “humanitarian” intervention would be more urgent.

    • http://naver samurai

      I agree with you, fellow patriot. We don’t need to be going into Lybia or anywhere else, for that matter. Our forces are over-extended, our supply line to the point of breaking, and from what I hear from my friends still in service, morale is low at this time. Let’s take our last 50,000 in Iraq and bring them home. Why should we guard a pipeline and don’t receive a drop of the oil that flows through them? Afghanistan has been transformed from its former self. It has a constitutional government, military (though not a very good one), and a strong leader. We have completed the mission in Afghanistan and Iraq, so now its time to bring them home. Bring them home and reopen some of the bases near our southern border to help stop the flow of illegals comming into this nation. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Lastmanstanding

        samuria…what you said makes perfect sense to many of us. problem is, the elites of the world like it JUST LIKE IT IS…With the USA divided and with our men (troops) all over the place they know it weakens us. They want the NWO. They know that the USA is the key to it. They control much of the media, the dem. and repub. party. They could care less, our laws, our borders, our kids future are of no matter.

        For God sakes, every day we have to listen to the budget bs. Anyone that can’t understand the importance of a balanced checkbook is lost.
        Yet everyday, politicians spend and spend. The fed prints and prints.

        Yet everyday, our men and women serving with honor and pride are be kept from there full potential here at home with there friends and family. We must demand that our troops be brought home. Contact the losers that “represent” us an tell them that we have had enough.

        A arab man once said,” My father rode a camel, I drove a car, my son flies in a airplane…his son will ride a camel. What comes around…goes around. That day is not far off.

        Amen samuria…FOR GOD AND COUNTRY. (I like that!)

        • http://naver samurai

          Thank you, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • sylviam

            Just a few words to all PATRIOTS, THANK YOU, Thats is all I have to give I wish I had a lot more but I don’t.
            GOD BLESS AMERICA

          • http://naver samurai

            Never mind duhniso and eyes wide shut. They’re just here to stir the waters with their left wing lies, rhetoric, and inuendo. Sound like what a lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxist would say? I don’t know what you lefties have been smoking, but I think its past time for you to stop. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • JeffH

          samurai and fellow patriots, keep up the good fight!

          • Kate8

            JeffH, Samurai, Bitter-: This is a letter from Jesse Ventura to the ruling elite:

            Jesse Ventura’s Letter to the Ruling Elite!
            April 7th, 2011

            You control our world. You’ve poisoned the air we breathe, contaminated the water we drink, and copyrighted the food we eat. We fight in your wars, die for your causes, and sacrifice our freedoms to protect you. You’ve liquidated our savings, destroyed our middle class, and used our tax dollars to bailout your unending greed. We are slaves to your corporations, zombies to your airwaves, servants to your decadence. You’ve stolen our elections, assassinated our leaders, and abolished our basic rights as human beings. You own our property, shipped away our jobs, and shredded our unions. You’ve profited off of disaster, destabilized our currencies, and raised our cost of living. You’ve monopolized our freedom, stripped away our education, and have almost extinguished our flame. We are hit… we are bleeding… but we ain’t got time to bleed. We will bring the giants to their knees and you will witness our revolution!
            Sincerely,
            The Serfs.

          • JeffH

            Kate8, good letter.

          • Eddie47d

            Sounds exactly what a liberal would say. Thanks for coming around Kate and Jeff.

          • Kate8

            In your dreams, eddie.

          • Eddie47d

            Then you don’t agree with Ventura?

          • JeffH

            Kate8, it’s just 47D being…well uh…47D!

          • JC

            Eddie47d says:
            April 8, 2011 at 6:47 pm
            Sounds exactly what a liberal would say. Thanks for coming around Kate and Jeff.
            __________________________________________________________

            It doesn’t sound anything like what a liberal would say.
            A liberal lives in denial of ALL things real, moral and ethical.
            You’re a case in point your own self there, eddie boy. ;)

          • Kate8

            J C – Liberals definitely don’t like freedom. They have to use force to control everything.

          • eyeswideopen

            Kate, what world are you living in? The Conservatives are trying to control what you read, hear and what you do with your own body. What is laughable is that they are using the “Big Government” to do it. What happened with keeping the government out of our lives??? Big brother is in our doctors offices, soon to be seen in our bedrooms. Can’t wait to see which religious demonination will be the chosen Christian National religion. Maybe you will be lucky and yours will be the chosen one. Maybe not. I would laugh my ass off if it was the Mormons.

          • Denniso

            The irony,that the right can’t even see, is that they profess a loathing for most things Muslim,especially Sharia religious law, yet they push for laws based upon their often distorted view of Christianity…much like the radical Muslims do. Criminalize a woman’s choice over her own body,outlaw homosexuality,ammend the constitution to prevent gays from having the right to be married…

          • Eddie47d

            Always the shallow one aren’t you Jeff!!

          • Eddie47d

            Two sided Kate; You apparently praise Ventura when he just stood up for unions,the Middle Class,Clean air,etc when they are liberal ideals. He stood against stripping education,corrupt corporate greed and for personal freedoms when the liberals say the say the same.

          • Kate8

            eyes – What world are YOU living in?

            Just who is in charge right now, taking away more and more of our choices every day? FORCING us into this Obamacare control system, passing laws that take away our right to eat non-GMO foods (or even grow them), outlawing natural healing practices, FORCING our children into socialist education indoctrination that tells them to ignore the values and morality of their parents…I could go on and on.

            Not to mention the utter disdain for our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

            Are you even aware of who’s running things?

          • Kate8

            eddie – the whole idea that Conservatives oppose clean air and all the stuff you mentioned is just Leftist propaganda. We are for a healthy environment more than anyone.

            Unions are okay until they gain too much power. Then they become oppressive for everyone. Especially when they are used to empower a political ideology, and disallows choices.

            You are so clueless that it’s hardly worth commenting. Corporate greed is as much a part of the Left as anyone. Take a look at your politicians. All involved in massive corporations, all taking millions/billions in corporate payoffs (not to mention from illegal drug cartels), and all becoming millon/billionairs after taking office.

            Wake up, eddie. But then I know that you are in a permanent trance.

            BTW, Ventura used to be more to the Left of center, and friends of the likes of Clinton and other Lefties, but has learned shocking information about them which has caused him to see them for what they are: power-crazed genocidal maniacs intent on creating a slave-state, after first eliminating most of us.

          • JC

            eyeswideopen says:
            April 8, 2011 at 11:06 pm
            Kate, what world are you living in? The Conservatives are trying to control what you read, hear and what you do with your own body. What is laughable is that they are using the “Big Government” to do it. What happened with keeping the government out of our lives???
            _____________________________________________________________

            You’re confusing conservatives with Republicans.
            Progressives and Neo-Cons BOTH need to be eradicated.
            And the only way that is going to happen is to shut down
            the falsely named Federal Reserve.

          • Kate8

            eyes and eddie – Like it or not and,in spite of your liberal revisionist view of history, our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles of liberty and justice. If you don’t believe this, you only have to turn to the Torah and it is spelled out.

            This is a far cry from Sharia, which is about total submission, oppression, total lack of freedom, and barbarism. So, with what part of Islam are you supposed freedom-lovers so enthralled?

            You say you are for freedom and justice, but you decry the principles that provide that. Christians do not believe in FORCING anyone to do things their way. As long as we obey basic laws of justice, honesty, integrity, no one tries to FORCE you to do or believe anything. You may do as you will, but we reserve the right not to associate or do business with you, nor hand our children over to you.

            And there are some places where government has no reasonable purpose to intervene.

            You, on the other hand, think of freedom as seeing EVERYTHING YOUR WAY, even if it has to be legislated. You want to control everyones beliefs, FORCE us to, not only tolerate, but EMBRACE perversion, FORCE us to hire, associate and do business with everyone no matter how abhorrent we find their practices, FORCE us to sign on to and pay for programs we detest…there is no limit to your tyranny.

            Your obsession with the gay issue is a riot. For decades you worked to make living together, for hetero couples, mainstream. Now, you want ‘marriage’ applied to gays, who’ve always had the right to live together. Marriage is a word describing a union of OPPOSITES, man and wife (not husband and husband or wife and wife), so ‘marriage’, by definition, cannot apply to same sex unions. They STILL can live together however they want. You just want to desecrate a Sacrament that has been a Sacrament forever, because that strikes another blow to God’s Laws and God’s people.

            It’s never enough for you to get what you want. You have to FORCE everyone else to see things YOUR way, even if it means sacrificing personal freedom to think and choose. Freedom to you means FORCING your will on everyone, being free to practice all manner of perverse living while marginalizing and persecuting anyone who wants to live otherwise. It is to FORCE us to accept everything that has ever been held to be immoral or downright evil, in order for you to feel comfortable in your perverse lifestyles.

            It enrages you to see people prosper through right-living. You won’t be happy until everyone is brought down to your base level.

            You are the exact opposite of freedom. What you espouse is nothing less than absolute tyranny. What you wrongly accuse others of doing is precisely what you are guilty of.

            Your minds are warped and your hearts are bitter. You may think you are winning now, but in the end, you will LOSE.

          • Thamera

            Eyes, what world do you live in? Who is pushing for big government? What do you think Obamacare is all about??? As for The Mormons, how does that even figure into your equation? And Denniso: I like your ideas, I really do if it is motivated by the Free Market and not imposed on individuals through the government and taxation. As far as Europe is concerned what is their GNP compared to ours? You cannot ignore the GNP when discussing oil consumption. It is an important factor. I don’t know if you have lived in Europe, but I have and it is vastly different in many ways than America. I loved the time I spent in Europe, but to expect that America can just “adopt” some of Europe’s practices as far as energy consumption is concerned is comparing apples to oranges…you cannot do it. Possibly you could if America was only made up of the East Coast but it isn’t and it is either naive or simplistic to suggest that you can and/or that the government could or even should make wide sweeping regulations that effect an entire nation when each state is so completely different and I might ask, where does the constitution fit into your plans for the reconstitution of energy consumption?

          • Thamera

            So good Kate8…well said.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Eyes,
            you obviously don’t live in THIS world!!! If the conservatives are so into big Government, then why did they fight tooth and nail against the dems who were trying to KEEP the big government??? The conservatives cut 38 billion from the budget that over the next decade will cut 500 billion from the government spending!!! the conservatives have sworn to cut more as well!!! NOW who’s trying to keep BIG GOVERNMENT???? Get a CLUE,LADY!!!

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Kate8:

            That is great. Where did you see it?

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Homosexuality is deviant behavior. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

            Once a woman becomes pregnant, it is no longer just her body. Abortion is America’s holocaust. Chopping up babies and flushing them down a sink drain.

            This country was founded on Judeo – Christioan principals and neither of those above mentioned activities are pleasing to God Almighty.

            That is what liberalism is all about – anti-God.

          • Kate8

            Old Henry – Where did I see what?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Well eddie you little heathen, its like this. It is wrong to suck a live baby out of its mothers womb, no matter how it got there. It is MURDER plain and simple. And your right that a mother has a right on what to do with her body, but not with the body of the infant inside her that her and some liberal doctor are murdering. That is where you are wrong. And I will also guarantee you, that God did not design us to butt bonk our male counterparts. And if you think it is ok, then lets separate the whole gay community from the heterosexual community, and see how long they last. Just those right there, and thats it. They cannot multiply, therefore they die out. That right there shows how wrong it is. We can live without them, but they cannot live without us. If you think different, then you fool yourself. It is sexual perversion at its greatest level, as proven by many who went that way, and made it out, and they will to a man, tell you that it was sexual perversion that drove that to them, and they all used that same cop out, “I was born that way”. That is an old dirty lie, as old as the lies you tell eddie. You are wrong on these counts and many, many more. But relax, I will, because it doesnt matter what I say, or what you say, or what I think, or what you think, as we all get to bow one day to the Lord Jesus Christ, and tell Him an account of ourselves, which He already knows. You want to suck babies out of their mothers and murder them, all I can say is good luck explaining to the one that created life, that you decided to be a god yourself and snuff out that life. Really, good luck with that. And explain liking boys too. Again, good luck with that. Its wrong and destestable, or God wouldnt have written that it is an abomination to him for a man to sleep with another man as he would a woman. See Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:27, although there are more.

      • JC

        Here’s a thought Samurai…If they are unable to pass a budget, my understanding is that there are only funds enough right now, to pay the military until the end of the month…
        what if our soldiers were to simply head to the nearest airport, buy a ticket and fly home?
        Their missions are basically unconstitutional and they wouldn’t be getting paid so who could blame them?
        Just a thought…

        • http://naver samurai

          Point taken. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          JC:

          Just a thought.

          And a very good one at that!

          I was thinking the very same thing about 5 minutes prior to reading your post.

        • JeffH

          JC, not a bad idea…I know, and you know, that Congress is perfectly capable of keeping certain things going during a shut down and I think we all know the fearmongering media and Obama Dems want us to think otherwise.

          • JC

            For sure Jeff, I sawe an interview of that marxist little rat Harry Reid on CNN last night…HE certainly wants us to thinks so…

          • Kate8

            Kind of funny, them talking about shutting down “non-essential” government services and agencies. That indicates that a very big part of government is NON-ESSENTIAL. In other words, dead weight. People receiving tax-payer money for doing something NO ONE WANTS OR NEEDS.

            Let’s shut them down permanently!

          • Kate8

            I listened to a few callers on CSPAN tonight, regarding the possible gov shutdown. Most were, as usual, only interested in whether they’d get their checks. Sob stories o’plenty, how they rely on their checks, handouts and free medical care.

            We have a collapsing nation and people can only see as far as themselves, and what they are “entitled” to. Good grief, in a few short months, we may have NOTHING.

            We are a nation of wimps. If this is any indication, that rugged American spirit is dead.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Kate8–I heard some of those callers too. I have to say I was disgusted.

          • Kate8

            Claire – I attend every townhall that occurs in my district, and each time I go in hope that we can discuss what is besieging our nation.

            Each time, though, it’s the same thing: social security/medicare.
            All anyone cares about is getting their checks and services.

            This is how we are manipulated so easily. We willingly sacrifice everything that makes life worth living so we can get our checks and freebies.

            Each time I leave the meeting with a little less faith in America.

          • Kate8

            Claire, BTW, this also is evidence of how the medical system was set up to control us.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Kate8,
            you and I usually agree, so it suprises me to disagree with you now. Social Security is NOT A FREEBEE!!! Some people have paid into it their entire lives, like my Father. He retired but when he found the going too rough for him, he started a business and paid into it until a couple of years before he died!! It isn’t anywhere near free!!!

          • Kate8

            Joe H. – Sorry I wasn’t very clear. I wasn’t calling Social Security a freebie. I just happened to mention it along with freebies. The point I was making is that our country is COLLAPSING, yet people are only worried about losing their personal checks from the gov’t. The fact that we are about to LOSE EVERYTHING just seems to go over their heads. If we have no country, we have no checks!

            I get SS, too, Joe. I’m toast without it. But I know there are a lot of other things that need to be addressed if we are to have any semblance of a nation. Unless people start looking at the bigger picture here, past the ends of their own noses, we have no hope at all.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            JoeH:

            Yea, I had a cousin who paid into SS, like all of us – at gun point – for 45 years. He died very suddenly at 62 and had never gotten a dime back. All that money just disappeared into the Bernie Madof’s Uncle Frank’s ponzi scheme.

          • Kate8

            Old H – My Congressman even admitted that that was the idea behind SS – that most people would die before collecting much (if any) of it.

            That’s why they keep raising the age limit.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Question I have is this. If they shut down, does that mean all these top dogs in the Presidency, the congress, house and senate, governors, senators, and all, go without pay? Or do they just say were shut down, and they get to collect their pay for doing nothing. I can see them shutting down for a long time, to get a long, long paid vacation, so hopefully these lepers arent getting paid for doing nothing. But I myself, I dont trust them.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Old Henry and Kate8,
            that’s what I can’t understand. Even here, I see people in the paper that die at 55 to 65 years old almost every day!! how the hell is Social security running out of money?? Other than the fact that every Tom, Dick, and Harry is taking the money out for their pet projects, of course!!! At the rate people are dying, if the pols would just leave it the hell alone, it would be solvent for many a year!! especially if the PTB put back all that they have taken OUT!!! I remember in, I believe, 1982 or so that there was an article in the paper that said that Social security was running a balance of something like 100 million or so and it was doubling about every seven years or so!!

      • Steve

        why are we in Libya?…why are we still in South Korea, Japan, Germany and the middle east?…why did an ultra liberal president like Obama do exactly the opposite of what he said he was going to do and escalate the war in Afganstan and now send us into Libya…could it be that the military industrial complex is the enity that is actually running this country….and the president(s) are only a puppet who has to succumb to their wishes…all the while lining the pockets of the war mongers/defense contractors and at the same time destroying the lives of thousands of our servicemen and women and sending our country into bankruptcy….

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Basically we are in Libya because the U.N. told Little Barry to do it.

        • sylviam

          That one is easy to ansewr, OBAMA IS USING OUR MILITARY to gain his re-eletion and end of story.
          GOD BLESS AMERICA

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          And to add to your list, just why are we in France? The rats wouldnt join in and help in Iraq, and they wouldnt let us use their “air space”. Close all the bases there and bring our guys home. Close all the bases in Germany and bring them home there also. And there are many, many more on the list.

      • Dr. Mabuse

        Samurai, I agree with most of your post, but I take exception with one point you made. “Afghanistan has been transformed from its former self. It has a constitutional government, military (though not a very good one), and a strong leader.” As to the “transformation” of Afghanistan, they’re still a de facto tribal society… not much change there. To me, their Constitution isn’t worth the paper its printed on,(Just ask the Taliban). Kharzi has shown himself to be a two faced puppet, flipping and flopping according to which regime is in Washington, D.C. His brother is the dopeman, (who do you think runs the poppy fields and collects that CIA money? Pat Tillman is rolling over in his grave). You are directly on point when you say bring our men home and have them secure our borders, (something that the last 3 Presidents refused to do.

        • JC

          So, overall, the corporatists have everything under control and the dope dealers are in bed with the local government.

          You’re right Dr. our military has brought them pretty much right up to speed with our kind of Democracy. What an accomplishment!

          We need to pull our kids out of these ridiculous wars.

          • Kate8

            Amen, JC.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            A very large AMEN, JC!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I totally agree with your statement about guarding the pipe line and not taking any oil. We should take enough of Iraq’s oil to pay for the war, and their rebuilding, and not use a dime of ours. And while we are at it, Saudi Arabia should be giving us free oil for protecting their worthless rotten muslim arse’s, because without us, these terrorists sects would come in and kill every stinking one of them and take all they have. I would pull out of there immediately, unless they agreed to pony up on the oil. Without us, they are done, and I assure you all, those Saudi’s are a bunch of posers, and they are not our friends. Not at all.

    • jovianus

      Just out of curiousity, and i’m serious about this…if Sammy in Iraq was touted to be a ‘strong active supporter of terrorist acts against us’, and we had that as a major validation for Bush’s oil empire building … with the proven crazed maniac in Khaddafi who has been directly and without doubt linked to several major terroist acts, Heck, even Reagan tried to snuff him …

      So we now have a chance with NATO action to take him out with assisting a popular uprising. Yes, we could stand back, let Khaddafi remain in place, or see what develops in the uprising…and have no say or influence whatsoever at the table if Khaddaffi is toppled. And I do mean no say whatsoever. Now what do you think are the odds of an anti US, pro extremist gov’t taking Khaddaffi’s place if we and NATO have no seat at that table? I’d proffer it to be far greater without us at the table than with us.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Dude, you need to get over yourself. There was no war for oil then, and there is none now, unless it is Obama and the democrats war for oil. Is that how it is? Yeah, thats right, Libya has oil. Now lets connect the dots to anyone at all in the democratic party who has ever worked for or represented any oil company, and there you go, its the democrats war for oil. But wait a minute, where is the national press trumpeting about this Obama-Biden-Halliburton whatever war for oil? Where is the national press about this war monger Obama, who has escalated the war in Afghanistan and started a new one in Libya. Those war mongering democrats. Where is the national press on this? My gosh, all I read for the longest time was the war mongering republicans, and Bush’s illegal war for oil. All lies. But where are they now, when the democrats are conduction their illegal wars, plural, for oil? Where are they? Bunch of [offensive word removed] they are.

        • jovianus

          Dude…you need to step back and get over yourself. Libyan oil is not a major factor in the worlds oil supply and i don’t see Haliburton anywhere in this admin but it was a major force in Bush/Cheney.

          Next…you’re saying that the country harboring bin Laden should not have been taken out? Seriously? While Bush pushed it aside so Haliburton and the cabal backing Bush/Cheney made billions off of invading Iraq using lies as a pretense… we should not go back and finish the job ? Pres. Obama promised he would concentrate on pursuing the Afhghan war during his campaign … you’d rather let it go back to the Taliban after Bush screwed it up and wasted American lives.

          Dude…get the colored glasses off.

          • DaveH

            Colored glasses are better than being blindered. You will stoop to any lows to support your leader won’t you, Jovianus? Here is a listing of the major oil producers, exporters, consumers, and importers. Notice Libya’s position in the exporter column (#11). Note also that Iraq is below Libya (#12):
            http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html

          • http://naver samurai

            Don’t forget moron that Bill Clinton had the chance to take out Osama 3 times, but didn’t. Why? Because he was affraid that they would come over here, well he didn’t take him out and he still came over here, didn’t he moron? All of the sites that were hit and all of the Americans lost in these attacks (I don’t know the exact loss figures) and not once did he retalliate, until the Monica thing got to be too much for him and he bombed some abandoned camps and an aspirin factory. Bush and Reagan also had votes from the Congress and Senate before doing any action, but Obama bin Laden goes and does this thing without that required voting process. This is unconstitutional and there is now a republican lawyer that is drawing up papers of impeachment against him as of now. His name is Bruce Fein. I hope he able to bring these charges and get this traitor out of office. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Bruce D.

            Dude, I agree with Beberoni. You of all people I thought would be against starting another war. I would think the two wars we have now and Obama expanding the Afghan war into Pakistan would have been enough for most Americans. We really do not have anymore money for wars and nation building. You know if we are in there we will be sending them money for certain to rebuild. We certainly didn’t make any profit on Iraq oil like you suggest. Libya is just another country we will have to babysit. Most likely we will build another 500 million dollar embassy there. I think fiscal conservatives have had enough. The left always believes that there is a never ending supply of other peoples money available.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Sorry dude, you lie again. Bush and Cheney did not make billions off of Iraq. In fact, quite contrary to your lie, we spent billions freeing them. Now if I were running things, yes, I would have taken their stinking oil, at least enough to pay for the war. But they didnt. And again, you lie, and seriously, its quite obvious you lie. And also, get educated on business. When doing business, you place bids, and more than not you go with the low bid, but sometimes you want to make sure youve got the right guys. I know, we get a lot of bids where we werent the low bidder, but the customer insisted to the General contractor to use us, because were that good. When it comes to putting out oil fires, there are two big companies, and Halliburton is recognized as the best of the best. So who you gonna use? My company isnt going to do it, because we dont do that. But Halliburton does. If I had an oil well fire, they would be the first I would call, and they are first most oil producers call when they have a problem like this. But what money Halliburton made, DOING THEIR JOB, had nothing to do with Bush or Cheney. You know, those guys to fill out tax returns, and they are public information, so maybe you need to check that out, and provide the proof of your lies. Oh wait, you cant. Your beating a dead horse. They freed a country of millions, did not take their oil, got rid of a mad man, and people are free, and now countries such as Egypt, Bahrain, Tunisia, Libya and even Iran see the freedoms Iraq has, and they want it too. And though Im not against bombing Libya and taking this idiot Khadafy out, it wouldnt have been a bad idea to, you know, maybe have some kind of a plan. Dont you think maybe we should have had a plan first? I mean we had a real good plan in Iraq, until the democrats came into power and got off course, and announced our leaving date and stupid things like that. Thing is Jovi Anus, you cannot in the real world, attack, attack, attack Bush/Cheny for a war, then your guy escalates it and starts another, and give him a free pass. Hello? Anyone home? You cant do that man. If one is bad, both are bad. If one guy is wrong, then they both are wrong. You cannot sit there and say “this bastard started a war”, then look at your guy and say “hooray, Barack is doing a good thing”. It cant be that way, except in a left wing liberal world where your always right and everyone else is wrong. But in the real world, this is not acceptable behavior. So get over yourself.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Actually Jovi Anus, the Bush admin almost had the Taliban completely exterminated. It has regrouped under the Obama admin while they were sleeping. He may have escalated this war, and sent 10,000 more guys over there, but according to the military heads, they are just spinning their wheels. And remember General McChrystal who was removed, because he had the audacity to talk to the press and tell them that he hadnt heard from Obama for 6 weeks? And this is the guy running the war. So what kind of a handle on the war does he have, if he doesnt talk to the guy coordinating it for 6 weeks. Think about it son, just think about it. That lays it out pretty good as to what kind of a leader he is.

          • Bruce D.

            I am thinking along the lines you are Beberoni. Take Libya’s oil until the debt of their war is paid in full. Government was stupid not to do that in Iraq. We should have grabbed their oil or left Iraq when Hussein was captured and we realized there was WMDs. This idea of using taxpayers money to rebuild the world has got to change. Reagan bankrupted Russia to defeat the Soviet Union. Bush and Obama are doing the same thing to America that Reagan did to Russia.

          • http://yahoo richard

            so, it is bad for some oil exec. that might do something for this country,to back a president,but its ok for a communist that is trying to destroy this country to buy us an ilegale for president

          • jovianus

            Berboni…almost had the Taliban exteminated/ Wow … I can’t believe you say that even halfway believing it to be true. That’s why our Main Supply route was cut, that’s why we were bottled up in cities, that’s why we ignored any action othe than defrensive, that’s why we had a totally corrupt government put in place…because we almost had the Taliban exterminated.

            Wonder where they all came from then … have you? jeesh…what a crock of BS.

          • azwayne

            Dave, you’re hitting head on. Sorry missed, name for the blinded ODUMBO follower. When you want the source for all your thoughts study the Bilderberg Group. They have controlled who becomes president, they have filled congress, for decades, they picked who gets controlling roles, they pick media, why are things getting tense? The information and education sources are opening up, will they give up, they’ve arranged for 50-60 years, why do dictators need removed from middle east? it’s going to be easy to take over whole region, somebody can’t see Haliburton operating in ODUMBO’s circus look them up, coincidence they were responsible for oil well disaster? You think all these attrocities just happen, you probably believe in the big bang theory. We won’t convince many right off, but please start research, and question. Every concerned person better get ready to make a difference, and some better educated would sure be great.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Its called recruting Jovi-Anus. In the two plus years of Obama, Taliban and Al Quaeda recruiting has brought in mass numbers, because they fully recognize the pacifist appeasers running things now. I mean after all, this guy bought lawyers to defend them after they got caught trying to kill us, then he set a bunch of them free, just for our guys to catch them trying to kill us again. Why would they be afraid. It is all your left wing liberals fault, as they have taken their eyes off the ball.

        • usmadgirl

          Beberoni,

          You are exactly right! It doesn’t matter what our current Communist-in-Chief does, he’ll get a pass from his messiah-worshiping media.

          • Kate8

            usmadgirl – No kidding.

            I’m still shaking my head over eyes and eddie’s posts blaming the Right for our loss of freedoms.

            Do they even know who’s had total power since 2006?

            Blows my mind how deluded the Lefties are. Seriously, if they haven’t figured this out by now, it’s hopeless.

          • usmadgirl

            Kate8,

            It never ceases to amaze me, exactly how progressives come up with this stuff & I suppose, truly believe what they’re spewing. I’ll NEVER understand how they condone their immoral, irrational, radical views.

            I don’t come on here much anymore & Tinwarble just gave it up completely because it’s like beating a dead horse. I’ve seen a few comments on this site & a few others where Democrats/Liberals, thanks to the radical actions of this administration, have finally seen the light & have changed their evil ways. I sincerely admire them for their independent thinking & enlightenment.

            I’ve always been a Republican/Conservative, but until several years ago, I actually thought most Democrats were like Zel Miller. Boy! Was I shocked when I really started listening & researching & found out what 95% of the Democrats/Progressives were actually all about…Socialists/Communists/Marxists/Maoists. It’s been a rude awakening for me. I thought all those “ists” weren’t ALLOWED in our country & now they’ve been voted into office to make the DECISIONS for our country! How & why have we allowed this to happen…without any resistance?

          • Kate8

            usmadgirl – I get fed up with the Leftist posters, too. I know that they only come here to make trouble, and to despirit us. When it gets to be too much I just skip over their posts.

            We’ve gotten to this point because the real statesmen who tried to warn us have been demonized and destroyed. There have been several. Two big ones were McCarthy and Goldwater. They tried continually to tell us that we were being infiltrated and corrupted from within, and they were both persecuted and driven out of public life in disgrace.

            Goldwater was a true patriot who was trying to awaken the public and save America. But no one wanted to listen. History has proven him, and McCarthy as well, as absolutely correct.

          • Kate8

            BTW, At the time, the late ’60s, early ’70s, my new in-laws were Goldwater conservatives, and members of the John Birch Society.

            I thought they were raving loonatics. My husband and I made fun of them.

            Too bad they are gone now. I feel really bad about it. They saw and understood what was coming.

          • usmadgirl

            Kate8,

            I was reading about McCarthy a couple of weeks ago & the article I read still made him out to be an alcohol-saturated nut job. I can’t remember much about Barry Goldwater except that I liked him. I was pretty young when he ran for president. Things might’ve been totally different now if he’d been elected instead of lying, progressive LBJ.

            You are so right! They have demonized those who were right & are doing the same thing now. I just looked up The John Birch Society & laughed (even though it’s sad & pathetic) when I saw the description on Wikipedia: “The John Birch Society is an American radical right-wing political advocacy group that supports anti-communism, limited government, a Constitutional Republic and personal freedom”. WOW! A group that supports anti-communism, limited government, a Constitutional Republic & personal freedom. You can’t get much more radical than THAT! LOL! THIS is why we’re in trouble!

      • DaveH

        First you accuse Bush of engaging for self-interest (oil), and then you advocate engaging Libya for a seat at the table (self-interest). Make up your mind, Jovianus.
        We don’t really know who the good guys or the bad guys are over there. Maybe they’re all good. Maybe they’re all bad. There is no way we can know. We should have butted out of Iraq. And we should have only punished Afghanistan for harboring and training the 9/11 terrorists (if they even really did that), and then got out. No nation building. We have no business at all being in Libya.
        Virtually all great empires have overextended themselves and subsequently been overrun by their enemies. Let’s not go down that same path.

        • Pat

          What is absolutely amazing to me is the fact that our ‘esteemed congress’ did not rise up in an uproar over being ignored by our so-called ‘constitutional scholar’ president. Not a peep! Not a single complaint from this bunch of wussies! It is getting harder abd harder for me to be proud of my country’s behavior.

          • maggiemoo

            Actually, in the senate anyway, Rand Paul and Mike Lee both spoke out about it (and against it).

          • bob wire

            “It’s become the most ignored moment of the Libya story. On March 1, the United States Senate voted unanimously for a resolution calling for a no-fly zone from the United Nations. The Senate is on the record in favor of this action, at least before President Obama actually took action.”

            True! “O” didn’t consult Congress, ~ movement on the ground did not permit him the time, but whatever Congress might have taken days or weeks to decide must be approved by the Senate.

            So to suggest that the President acted completely alone without consulting other bodies of government is a erroneous charge.

            “O” is guilty of “fast tracking” government and the rapid deployment of special military resources, something only the USA is in the position to do and no other.

            If any nation does not wish to have and maintain this capacity of controlling world events and be a world leader, perhaps military defense budget requires a good pruning by it’s people.

          • jovianus

            Maggie…I guess that’s why they voted for the unanimous Senate Resolution calling for regime change in Libya US action in having the regime change, and calling on the UN to do something. Because they were against it. uh huh Only in revisionist history I guess…

            BTW…they had 24 hours to object to that unanimous vote…they didn’t. Now they say they had no time to object. Jeesh…someone is being led down the primrose path of lies and deceit…best look in the mirror to find out who it is.

          • DaveH

            Which bill was that, Jovianus? Keep in mind that both Senate and the House of Representatives must approve military action.

          • DaveH

            Also keep in mind that a Simple Resolution (one passed by only one house of Congress) does not have the force of Law.

          • DaveH

            And as is typical in Government, there was deception practiced in the Senate:
            http://blog.heritage.org/2011/04/05/senate-resolution-requesting-no-fly-zone-in-libya-changed-in-secret-2/

          • DaveH

            Speaking of deception. Keep on commenting, Liberals. Please. How else can we convince people that you lack in integrity?

          • JeffH

            DaveH, it was simply a resolution, not law, and had nothing in it that would support US or UN attacks on Libya or Ghadaffi. It didn’t give the POTUS any support or authorization to take the US to war, anywhere.

            the US Senate has unanimously adopted a resolution asking the UNSC to consider imposing a no-fly zone over Libya while condemning the “gross and systematic violations of human rights” in the country.

          • Carlucci
          • DaveH

            Good post, Carlucci. I think even the Liberals won’t argue about that one.

          • bob wire

            Pat says:
            April 8, 2011 at 9:07 am

            What is absolutely amazing to me is the fact that our ‘esteemed congress’ did not rise up in an uproar over being ignored by our so-called ‘constitutional scholar’ president. Not a peep! Not a single complaint from this bunch of wussies!

            Well Pat, look at it like this; why vote on something that is unpopular and can potentially cause you serious grief? When you can allow the decision to be made by “others” and have the privileged and time to check the prevailing wind and make political hay according to what’s popular and any outcome?

            The sad truth is, Congress would have hated to have voted on it and chewed on it until the cows came home. “O” knew this and didn’t have the luxury of time and made the command decision of leadership and when straight to the Senate, being the best that he could do or “do nothing” and allow rebel resistance to be silenced.

        • bob wire

          Well the Bush/Chaney “interest” is a Hugh worm hole and has much to do with present and future mineral extraction world wide.

          On the surface I seriously doubt if you would find any connection but I wouldn’t bet the deed to the ranch on it.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Who is Hugh? Hugh Hefner? Hugh Grant? Who in the heck is this Hugh guy?

      • JC

        Not sure what you’re trying to say Jovi, but it looks like your rationale is two wrongs make a right.

        • DaveH

          Typical for Liberals.

          • http://naver samurai

            Well, you know how it is for the libs. Why let truth and reason stand in the way of a good rant. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • bob wire

            “Not sure what you’re trying to say Jovi, but it looks like your rationale is two wrongs make a right.”

            after 8 years of wrongs, that’s about the only sound argument at your disposal you have left to make. And of course, ~ you are correct.

          • Eddie47d

            Here we go again ad nauseum those bad ol’ liberals. They are everywhere. How about bad ol’ conservatives who who rallied for Iraq. You know who you are and then voted Bush back into power. You sly dogs you! Since I’m against our Iraq and Libya incursions I see most of you blowing hot air.That’s the real flip floppin’! If you were more honest in 2003 then you might be believable.Beberoni said we had a good plan in invading Iraq. What planet is he living on? Obama is just as careless in his Libya adventure where nothing might be gained. Chip really showed his bias when he tried to tie Obama into the Rwanda genocide.That was almost 17 years ago and an extremely cheap shot.

          • JKO

            Eddie, there is still much genocide going on in African countries. But I do agree, that Bush should also have done more about this. But then so should Europe.
            And don’t even get me started on the actors that speak against it and do nothing – many who make $20M a film.

          • DaveH

            Actually, Eddie, I consider anybody who advocates Big Government to be a Liberal. So there are two subgroups in that group — the militarists and the welfare statists. Both like Big Central Government, and both are willing to ignore the Constitution to achieve it.

          • JC

            bob wire says:
            April 8, 2011 at 9:36 am
            “Not sure what you’re trying to say Jovi, but it looks like your rationale is two wrongs make a right.”

            after 8 years of wrongs, that’s about the only sound argument at your disposal you have left to make. And of course, ~ you are correct.
            ——————————————————————

            Bob, if you’re assuming that my position is, or ever was Pro Bush, you assume incorrectly. He was an a**hole too. But Obama is worse…much much worse.

            I’m a Constitutional Libertarian and neither mainstream party represents me.

          • bob wire

            Hmm? as I stated, you are correct and if not for you ~ this same argument is used by others, alone with giving 43 credit for “what didn’t happen” which of course is another scares “valid’ argument.

            and thanks for filling in your background and origination of your viewpoints, that should be helpful to all of us.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            DaveH,
            Isn’t it just hilarious the way the progs seem to be ignoring Carlucci’s post and site???? Goes to the saying when in doubt, avoid the truth at all costs!!!

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          His rationale is that every thing anyone other than a democrat does is wrong, and everything the democrats do is ok. Is that not the liberal think tank, that they know what is right and best for all of us? That is what I see from them, over and over again, and Jovi Anus reflects this think tank. But he is dead wrong. You cannot demonize one guy, then place the other on a pedestal, for doing the same thing. You cannot do this, in the real world, only in the left wing liberal world.

          • jovianus

            Wow..ignorance must be in bred in the right. Sammy..contained, no threat, stable government diffuclt to overthrow. Bush lied about WMDs and gave oil rights, minerals rights, drilling rights, army contract etc. to one company..the one which the VP used to head.

            Libya…not contained, popular uprising underway, documented and known to assist terrorists (no need to make stuff up like Bush did with Sammy). NATO action, NATO planes, the Brits and French went in first. An alliance with strong allies (not the hokie poikie BS alliance Bush touted…) No troops or invasion being mentioned. Anyone who cannot see the differnce is blind or self ignorant.

            Whatever…you guys are something else. Worthless as tits on a boar and half as intelligent. Jeesh …

          • Vigilant

            Remember that the left has always been the champion of moral relativism, i.e., they feel entitled to change their moral judgments based on whatever suits them at the time.

            That’s why so many of them are atheists. They have no firm moral anchor for anything they spew.

          • Eddie47d

            Vigilant; I hope you weren’t referring to Bush being a Christian and his “moral” standing gave him permission to invade Iraq. Are wars more right because a Christian started it? Are conservatives more moral when it comes to decisions like this? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 so please don’t go there.

          • bob wire

            “That’s why so many of them are atheists. They have no firm moral anchor for anything they spew.”

            That’s pure bull $hit! ~ attempt to prove it and not look totally foolish in the process.

          • JKO

            For Eddie once again. Bush had the right to go into Iraq as Saddam continued to break his treaty on a daily basis. Whether it was moral or not can be questioned. But at least women in Iraq are a little safer that in the other countries in the region.
            And yes I had a vested interest. My son left to join the military 1 week after 9/11. Thank God he came home safe. I was VERY concerned when we entered Iraq. But I would trust Bush’s decisions over Obama’s any day. And here is why. Bush did what he said he would do and whether I agreed with him or not at least I knew he would do what he said. Obama promised we would get us out and all he did was the opposite- sent more troops in.
            I am all about each person having an informed opinion and it doesn’t have to agree with mine. Just be consistent – say what you mean and mean what you say. I just don’t see that in Obama.

          • Vigilant

            bobwire’s comment:

            That’s pure bull $hit! ~ attempt to prove it and not look totally foolish in the process.

            One need not attempt anything to prove what is displayed every day on this blog. If you can’t face reality, bob, why do you comment at all?

            I can’t remember AT ANY TIME reading a posting from an atheist who didn’t espouse leftist views. You’re welcome to try and find one, but you’ll be looking for a long time.

            Virtually all assaults on the Constitutional principle of religious freedom have come from the left. When’s the last time you heard of any Christian or Jew trying to impose THROUGH LAW the establishment of religion as a national church.

            I guess you’ve never heard of Madeline Murray O’Hare or the ACLU. Are you trying to tell us it’s the Conservatives who have done everything in their power to subvert the meaning of the First Amendment’s prohibition on the free exercise of religion?

            And you would deny the very DEFINITIONS of liberal and conservative. Or are you saying that there’s a third position, not liberal and not conservative, that is called “atheist?” No sir, go out on the street and talk to 100 persons. Find even one conservative who claims to be an atheist and you will be lucky indeed. There’s a reason why the stereotype of “liberal atheist” is so ubiquitous.

            I’m afraid you are the foolish one, bob, for making such a naive statement that contradicts the obvious.

          • Vigilant

            Eddie:

            “Vigilant; I hope you weren’t referring to Bush being a Christian and his “moral” standing gave him permission to invade Iraq. Are wars more right because a Christian started it? Are conservatives more moral when it comes to decisions like this? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 so please don’t go there.”

            Where did I say that “moral standing” gives any president “permission” to do what he wants? What I said was very simple: that moral relativism is undoubtedly found to exist much more amongst the lefties than the conservatives.

            Moral relativism is that which has made so many leftists conclude that the Constitution is not the law of the land, that their particular self-styled moral superiority gives them a reason to bypass the law any time they want.

            No, my friend, it’s the ever-shifting morality of folks like jopa and Jovi Anus that allows them to berate Bush and glorify Obama for essentially the same actions. It’s the true Conservative/Libertarian who sees the unconstitutionality of BOTH Bush’s and Obama’s forays into overseas military action.

            And to continue to paint GWB as a Conservative is dishonest at best.

          • bob wire

            Vigilant say;”There’s a reason why the stereotype of “liberal atheist” is so ubiquitous. ”

            so your argument hinges on the notion that “ALL drunks are not painter but ALL painters are drunks”

            I think that you tend to live in a very small world that permits one to appear to cope and exist in a sea of people that you share little in common.

            I’m sure the humor elude you and that you feel righteous in your tiny comfort zone and understanding of the world around you.

            In this attempt to demonize everything the least bit connected to the current administration you are a Pioneer among ditto-heads.

          • karolyn

            Vigilant -What makes you think atheists aren’t moral? What makes you think most liberals are ahteists? Where do you people get this from? I just think that whatever you think is bad in a person only occurs in liberals. ALL conservatives are Christian and moral! Is that what you believe?

          • JeffH

            Vigilant, I believe that DaveH has indicated at times that he is an atheist and he is about as moral as they come.

          • Vigilant

            karolyn said, “Vigilant -What makes you think atheists aren’t moral? What makes you think most liberals are ahteists? Where do you people get this from? I just think that whatever you think is bad in a person only occurs in liberals. ALL conservatives are Christian and moral! Is that what you believe?”

            Who the HELL are you to put words in my mouth? Do you have even a limited understanding of the English language, or is that the trait of all liberals?

            TO REPEAT, “What I said was very simple: that moral relativism is undoubtedly found to exist much more amongst the lefties than the conservatives.” I’ll add to that and defy you to prove otherwise, the following: “atheism is undoubtedly found to exist much more amongst the lefties than the conservatives.” Those are both empirical statements, subject to scientific test, NOT rash opinions.

            Find ANYTHING in my postings that ever said I think most liberals are atheists and I’ll eat my hat! And who said ALL conservatives are Christian and moral? Those are your words, not mine. For Christ’s sake, get your head out of the sand. I totally resent your implications.

            It would be nice, just once, to have a liberal READ my postings instead of READING INTO those postings and attributing to me words and feelings I never said or have.

          • Vigilant

            bob wire blathers the following:

            “Vigilant say;”There’s a reason why the stereotype of “liberal atheist” is so ubiquitous. ”

            “so your argument hinges on the notion that “ALL drunks are not painter but ALL painters are drunks”

            No, the argument hinges on observable fact and inductive thinking.
            Only the naive and uneducated could EVER say that the numerical distribution of atheists among the liberal and conservative populations is the same. It’s not so and you know damned well it’s not so. I don’t stereotype people as you do, I talk about preponderence of evidence and observation. And the undisputable fact remains that the likelihood of finding an atheist with conservative views is very small.

            “I think that you tend to live in a very small world that permits one to appear to cope and exist in a sea of people that you share little in common…I’m sure the humor elude you and that you feel righteous in your tiny comfort zone and understanding of the world around you.”

            What an asinine statement. When did you get credentials to be a psychologist, and where? We’ve all seen you take this tack before. So many times when someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of provincial thinking, mental problems and megalomania. No sir, YOU are the person who stereotypes, not I! Your cheap armchair psychiatry is not welcomed.

            “In this attempt to demonize everything the least bit connected to the current administration you are a Pioneer among ditto-heads.”

            And you have the gall to make that statement directly on the heels of my taking the Bush administration to task as well as the Obama for unwise and unconstitutional military actions in the Middle East. Take a reading comprehension course.

          • Vigilant

            JeffH,

            “Vigilant, I believe that DaveH has indicated at times that he is an atheist and he is about as moral as they come.”

            Yes, I agree, but I would caution against making the mistake that karolyn and bob (“the psychologist”) wire make in attributing statements to me that I didn’t make. I never said “all atheists are liberals,” nor did I ever say, “all liberals are atheists.” That was the cockeyed misinterpretation made by K and BW.

            I totally respect both your and DaveH’s opinions on things, you know that.

            I would hope that DaveH weighs in on this, because I believe he would agree with me. The preponderence of atheist views are found on the left as opposed to the right. That’s not to say you’ll never find an atheist on the conservative/libertarian side, any more than it is to say that people on the left have no religion.

            The gist of what I said was that religious people need and have a firm, unwavering moral anchor in God. That firm anchor is authoritarian and absolute. Unreligious people generally have no firm anchor in an immutable, supernatural truth of existence. They rely on something called “secular humanism,” a rather arrogant philosophy that posits the superiority of humankind in establishing moral norms.

            The difference should be plain to see: In the absence of a rigid moral code, anything can be considered moral if the powers that be say it’s moral. People are fickle, and moral standards are in a constant state of flux when you rely on human frailty for guidance.

            Most of the important Founders were Christian in name (for convenience’s sake) but held to Deist views, a position I hold myself. For them, and for me, the authority of Natural Law makes sense, that there is a Creator who made those laws, and that mankind can through reason alone discover them. The limited expression of natural rights in the Declaration of Independence is a mainstay of the Constitution, and its expression imbues the Constitution to the extent that it wouldn’t mean much without it.

            The moral relativism of the left seeks to invalidate the rule of law by saying the Constitution is a “living document.” That convenient canard has led to almost systematic disregard of its provisions, and worse, to the attitude that whatever we think moral or immoral at a given time is more important than adhering to the law. It leads to judical activism and executive fiat, the Constitution be damned.

          • JeffH

            Vigilant, I should have added that I do agree with your basic observation and, yes, we do see it right here almost daily.

          • Thamera

            Well said Vigilante and I couldn’t agree with you more. Many of the comments I have read are very simplistic without a lot of thought or study (Karolyn comes to mind). Moral relativism is akin to “fence sitting” and in the end will get you nowhere and is in fact quite dangerous and is always practiced in the name of “being kind” and “generous” and “accepting” of others. I realize this a dangerous position to take because when you take a firm position on moral issues you are instantly labeled by the “relativist” crowd as “mean”, “cold-hearted”, “uncaring” etc…. That is how libs can paint such demeaning pictures of anyone that doesn’t agree with them as child killers, anti-environment, anti-women and anti-poor hate mongers which is all complete BS! What they don’t understand is natural law which largely frames the constitution and as I have said before there is a huge difference between tolerance and acceptance.

          • DaveH

            Vigilant,
            I think there are lots of people out there that think like me (about as big a percentage as Libertarians, lol).
            I don’t care what you believe though. I don’t care if you pray in school. I don’t care if you place the ten commandments in courthouses. I don’t care if you place a cross in the town square. As long as you don’t try to force me to believe.
            One thing I would caution of any Freedom lovers, though, is that we need to stick together and not alienate each other over such things as our religious beliefs. We are in a fight for our lives and we need each other to fight the real enemy here — Progressives or others that would pretend to be our masters.

          • Vigilant

            DaveH,

            Thank you for your words. Well expressed as usual.

            We are in solid agreement on the principles of our Constitutional Republic. And you are right, we need to be monlithic in our fight against the forces of statism.

            You know I intended no slight to you. Our differences in religious belief should play no part in the fray, and I have always looked forward to your wise words.

            You also understand, and I’m sure you agree, that my beef is with the rabid atheists (who probably arrived at that point of view in a different fashion than you did), who use every opportunity to denigrate and ridicule people with different belief systems. A guy like Robert Smith is the type I’m talking about.

          • DaveH

            Rest assured, Vigilant, that I know you are a good person.
            I don’t think it’s the atheists though that are causing your problems. There are just too few of us to cause that much trouble. I think the Progressives (read Socialists) are the main perpetrators whether atheist or not. Socialists throughout history have been at odds with religions because they interfere with their absolute control. Progressism in itself is basically a religious system, as its followers just have to take it on faith since the facts point in the opposite direction. And they don’t like competition.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Jovi-Anus lies again, and exposes himself with his agenda. Bush lied about WMD’S? Research the facts of history Pal. Bill Clinton, Hillary Rodham Clinton, John Kerry, Howard Dean, Tom Daschle, and many more, all stood there on live TV, and on live radio programs, saying how Saddam Hussein had WMD’S and was dangerous and had to be stopped. All the intelligence said they had them, of course, as you know, our intelligence was extremely compromised because Bill Clinton cut it in half, dont forget that part, so according to you, then all these people lied first, and pulled the great set up. So if they all believed it, why should have Bush or anyone else for that matter, have not believed it? Can you tell me why? So stop your pathetic lying. Your left wing liberal pacifist friends might believe you, but anyone who has an ounce of truth in them, knows you are lying through your teeth once again. So just stop it.

      • S.C.Murf

        I do believe the muslim brotherhood is entrenched behind the scene and will wield considerable influence, if not outright control, over the governments that are now falling. And we all know how they dearly love America. Dark days ahead

        up the hill
        airborne

    • Robert S

      Now that Barbour wants to run for president he has done a 180. Was he against the phony wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
      The Wall Street Journal is in bed with the CIA.

    • Lewis Munn

      Yes, it is false to believe all nations want to share our cultural and political values.

      It is also false that we necessarily want to share theirs, too.

      I think our President is trying to walk the line between the US Constitutional freedoms, and the totalitarian beliefs and values of other nations, particularly the Muslim approach to government and to their own citizens. And since he is biased against our way to start with, he is waffling. Or maybe his controllers are waffling…hard to say which.

  • Dad

    One reason for this “war” is to edge the US into a One-World Government, and in spite of the human rights abuses by the UN et al, to transfer American Sovereignty to despots like our own POTUS.

    Good article, but you need to keep you eye on the ball… smoke & mirrors. How many of you really think that an incompetent imbecile like Obama could orchestrate anything of this nature? He may take credit, but he is only a pawn.

    • DaveH

      Good point, Dad.
      There really is only one solution for all this, since there is no easy way to tell the good guys from the bad guys. And that is to shrink Government dramatically. Get them back to their historical task of protecting the citizens from force. Otherwise they should butt out. As it stands now, they are the forcers that people need protection from, both inside our country and outside our country. If we were living in any other country, I think it would be much clearer that our country has become the kind of aggressor that our Government would use as an excuse for war if another country practiced the same actions. For example, if China got involved militarily in Canada, what does anybody think we would do?
      There is only one political party that has unwavering principles and a solid grasp of Freedom. That party is the Libertarian Party. Please read their platform and ponder their stance. The major parties have marginalized us for decades as neither one of them wants the smaller Government that we advocate. But now, thanks to Fox (John Stossel, Judge Napolitano), and thanks to the Internet (which Big Government wants badly to silence) we are getting our message out to people who previously had no idea what we stand for:
      http://libertarianparty.org/platform

    • kodster5

      I agree, Dad, with your statement. Now the truth comes out… Soros is the puppet master of Obama and his administration. Now, who are the puppet masters of Soros? That is the $64K question. We find them out, and drag them out into the light, and let’s watch them squirm, the worms!

      • Eddie47d

        Soros might be the puppet master of Wall Street and capitalism for they are the ones who caused the collaspe of our economy and that of other countries. I think you put too much credence on Soros and if there is a NWO conspiracy it’s been going on for decades. You all talk about these shadow groups (illuminati’s,etc)Yet why aren’t you bringing them down? They run our capitalist system so they must be the bad guys. Maybe it’s just easier to piss and moan about conspiracy theories instead of actually tackling the problem. Soros is pretty much out in the open so who are these other capitalists that you are afraid of? Does it hit too close to home to expose them all and lay the truth out or is it all a rouse? Is your charade against Soros just an excuse to sprew anti- Obama Rhetoric? Soros is one of many billionaires so why single him out since they are all making piles of money?

        • Bitter Libertarian

          “You all talk about these shadow groups (illuminati’s,etc)Yet why aren’t you bringing them down?”

          I’d love to, perhaps you have a plan? Please do divulge for us since you throw it out there like it should be sitting on the tip of our tongue. :)

          • Eddie47d

            Few Americans have a clue about who really controls this country. I think all this talk about the NWO is just an excuse for an easy enemy. It’s like punching at shadows just to feel good. Either they exist and are doing real damage or we are all being fooled by innuendos.

          • JC

            Sadly BL, they don’t wear signs.

        • usmadgirl

          Eddie47d,

          The reason we’ve “singled out” Soros is because we have proof, right from the evil, radical source’s mouth, exactly where he stands, what his intentions are & what he’s done to collapse other countries. He’s used the capitalist system to make BILLIONS of dollars just like all the other idiots (like Michael Moore, Hollywood morons, Al Gore, 70% of the Democrat Party & all the other freaks) that scream for Socialism or Communism or whatever it is they want today & to shove us into a NWO.

          You said we “put too much credence on Soros & if there is a NWO conspiracy that it’s been going on for decades”. Well, Hello! George Soros has been an American citizen since 1956; so there you go! That’s five & ½ decades! AND, it isn’t a “conspiracy” when you have proof!

          This is a sick & demented game to this satanic maniac & we are the last piece to his gigantic evil puzzle to win the competition & fulfill his psychotic, narcissistic fantasy. He is doing this & has destroyed other countries or economic systems for his own twisted amusement!

          All the HUNDREDS of organizations he funds to tear down stability, morality & our free, capitalist way of life lead straight to the O’Dumbo regime & its comrades. He, like O’Dumbo, wants to create “Social Justice” & “share the wealth”. Well let SOROS & O’DUMBO, share their OWN freaking wealth! Most of us don’t have anything left to share! This man & his “puppet” are monsters that need to be charged with treason.

          http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1237

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71NXb-I-06c

          • Kate8

            usmadgirl – Right on!

            Let them all share their own wealth! But they don’t! In fact, they continue to amass more wealth than they’ve ever dreamt of, and they don’t share any of it. They just keep taking more and more of OUR money and stuffing it into their own pockets.

            How is it that they all become multi-millionaires, while holding government-paid positions?

            By taking bribes, pay-offs and pilfering, that’s how! By selling out to the highest bidder.

            They are nothing but weak, weasely, greedy scum!

          • usmadgirl

            Kate8,

            You can add “slithering snakes” to the description.

            Here’s an article about how Harry Reid got to be so wealthy from an entire lifetime of public office making an average from $125,000 to now, $193,400 per year.

            http://nevadanewsandviews.com/2009/12/24/how-did-harry-reid-become-rich/

            How did THAT happen? I’m sure there are LOTS more!

          • Kate8

            usmadgirl – Not just dirty Harry. Pelosi amassed over $21MILLION in less than 2 years. Odumbo became a multi millionaire. You will see this across the board, mainly among the democrats.

            They are taking from us and stuffing their own coffers by betraying their countrymen. They need to ALL be removed from office and given the punishment for TREASON. Even that is to good for them.

            To call them weasels, snakes or swine is insulting to those poor creatures.

    • JeffH

      Dad, I agree wholehadredly and think the same. Good point…buyer beware!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        JeffH,
        A little off subject, but did you hear the report that Trump was once pro-abortion?? He has since changed his mind, or has he??? I worry that he is trying to be a spoiler that deliberately splits up the vote to allow Nobummer to again win!

        • usmadgirl

          Hey Joe H.,

          That’s what I tried to explain to someone on another topic last weekend who was pushing Trump for president. He can’t even decide what party he wants to support! I heard him say that he used to be pro-choice & had changed his mind. How convenient, now that he’s trying to get nominated on the Republican ticket! How is he going to make major decisions for the country when he can decide whether he’s a Dumbocrap or Repubican or whether he’s pro-murdering unborn babies or pro-life?

          He MIGHT be better than what we have now (Satan would be better), but why do we think we have to choose from the same old list of well-known, power hungry goof balls? (Plus, I couldn’t bear to look at Mr. Hairspray’s comb-over for 4 – 8 years! You’d think he’d have enough money to do something with his “hair do” or is it “hair don’t”.)

          • usmadgirl

            Joe H,

            I made a boo boo. First paragraph, 5th line should be “CAN’T decide”. Don’t want the typo police to put me in jail!

          • Kate8

            Trump admitted to voting for Obama. That, in itself, shows poor judgment.

            Bloomberg ran as a Republican, too.

            We need to dump both major parties and bring in new blood.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Kate8– I am with you on this!

  • Dave Gross

    Maybe if we had less military might we would be less willing and able to get involved in every conflict in the world. It is time to close down many of our military bases overseas and bring troops home to spend money here. If we intend to cut government size the military should be substantially also.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Maybe if we cut the military we could make it easy for foreign terrorists to organize and take us over. Are you nuts? That is the biggest mistake we could ever make. Without a military stronger than the others, were toast. And thats the facts, jack.

      • Mick

        Beberoni says:
        April 8, 2011 at 8:25 am
        Maybe if we cut the military we could make it easy for foreign terrorists to organize and take us over. Are you nuts? That is the biggest mistake we could ever make. Without a military stronger than the others, were toast. And thats the facts, jack.

        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
        Beberoni,,,You’re right.
        America has been the envy of many and need to be defended from take over.
        We’re already being invaded by foreigners bringing their culture and customs to our shores and demanding that they be observed and disrupting our OWN AMERICAN LAWS in the process, we’re getting it from both sides , within and overseas, it won’t be long before we lose control to other countries especially with the type of leaders we have now,
        Our Military forces are to remain strong to defend this land from all foreign enemies and fight the turncoats of this country if need be………….

        • Vigilant

          Bill clinton already did his best to emasculate the miltary. After his cuts, the extent of military cuts represented a force that would have been the second most powerful military in the world.

          The size of the military budget is related to the number of ill-advised and expensive wars we’ve engaged in, NOT the basic strength (manpower and weapons) of our standing force.

          The best way to ensure the peace is to prepare for war.

          • Lewis Munn

            One problem being it seems if we are ready for war, someone comes along and says “we’re ready, Let’s go.” and finds an excuse to start a war.

            And if we are large and prepared, what to we do with the little tiny countries that kick our shins? Swat them like flies?? Do nothing but moan, so we will not be a big bully?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Lewis,
            Look at the condition of the military hospitals during Klintoon’s term. The service to vets and maimed service members was greatly reduced to substandard!!! He and his hussy both demonstrated against this country during a time of war so why would he honor our agreement with our soldiers?? When we went to Iraq, the TO&E strengths in some units was well below mission ready, too few troops, not enough equipment, and too few veteran warriors. combine the three and the outcome is death to our troops if they ever face a more determined force!!

        • Eddie47d

          Mick; We are all initially from foreign countries. All our ancestors fled their wars,famine and poverty. The more wars we get into the more foreigners that end up living here. Why did the Muslim population grow so rapidly in America? Why are there so many Vietnamese living here? Why are so many “foreigners” invited to do our labor for us? I think the answer is rather obvious.

          • JKO

            Not all of us Eddie, some of us have ancestors that (supposedly) crossed the Bering Straight thousands of years ago. At least we do have first claim to these lands.

          • Vigilant

            Eddie says, “Why did the Muslim population grow so rapidly in America? Why are there so many Vietnamese living here?”

            No, Eddie, the answer is NOT as obvious as you seem to think. The answer is that your idol Ted Kennedy spearheaded an effort in the 1960s to radically change immigration law in the US. As a result, the quotas from Western Europe were severely reduced and the quotas increased for other nationalities.

            THAT is the true answer. Check it out.

          • JC

            Eddie47d says:
            April 8, 2011 at 10:37 am
            Mick; We are all initially from foreign countries. All our ancestors fled their wars,famine and poverty. The more wars we get into the more foreigners that end up living here. Why did the Muslim population grow so rapidly in America? Why are there so many Vietnamese living here? Why are so many “foreigners” invited to do our labor for us? I think the answer is rather obvious.
            —————————————————————–

            Let’s hear your obvious answer eddie.

          • libertytrain

            Eddie you should also check what special “dispensation” one got if one was Irish with Kennedy’s Immigration laws.

          • Eddie47d

            JC;You want me to answer myself? No, I’ll let you sit in a corner and do that to yourself.

          • JC

            Eddie47d says:
            April 8, 2011 at 7:00 pm
            JC;You want me to answer myself? No, I’ll let you sit in a corner and do that to yourself.
            —————————————————————-

            You don’t have an answer, do you?

            I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again,
            Liberals are incapable of complete thoughts.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Nice try, eddie, just spout some liberal spew and expect people to accept it as gospel cause it’s from the all knowing, all seeing mystical eddie!!!

      • usmadgirl

        Beberoni,

        A-M-E-N!!! I can’t believe that people actually want to reduce the only protection we have, the means by which we’ve stayed safe & a power for others to respect (until O’Dumbo)! What are people thinking?

        • Lewis Munn

          They are thinking it is too much bother to do anything. They are thinking that it is not their responsibility And yes, many are not thinking at all…just ignoring the warning signs. Thinking is too hard for them, and our modern schools especially are teaching non-thinking. Rote replies. Don’t think of consequences, just have fun and be popular.

          The public School nowadays, clear through grade school, teaches non-thinking. I recall back in grade school I had the whole class mad at me because I challenged the teacher on a scientifically-incorrect statement, and she made the whole class stay in from recess. When I finally got her to check an encyclopedia, I was proven right, but the whole class was punished for her incorrect info!

          What did they learn? It hurts to correct an authority figure who is in error!

    • Chris

      Amen, brother Dave.

      • http://naver samurai

        Since you have never been in the military, so it seems, then you should just keep your yap shut. Let’s see you try doing your job for no pay. Let’s see how long you and your family can go without food. Just another bleeding heart lib on this site. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Chris

          Samurai—If your comment was to me you need to get your head out of your ass and get your facts straight. I gave them 25 years and I would do it all again; however they do waste a hell of a lot of the taxpayers money. There is probably as much fraud in military contracting as there is in medicare. Greed, greed and stupidity rule.

          • Eddie47d

            Chris; Samurai can be strange at times.

          • Thamera

            Chris: I have no doubt that there is fraud and corruption in any government run program. Another testament to the fact that the government cannot run or manage ANYTHING effectively…but I don’t think that was what Samurai was talking about at all. I took his comments as referring to the low pay that the military receives…that contractors and govt. officials are corrupt, yes…most probably, but what does that have to do with the serviceman serving his/her country? NOTHING

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Chris,
            you want to see a lot of that fraud gone?? Do away with the Most Favored Bid List!!! Let there be open and above board bidding by anyone that can supply them!! Look at the contract a certain company in the Cleveland area had. they ran 30%+ overon their bid and when there was an investigation the gov. found that they had taken other perspective customers to dinners, used money from the contract to buy materials for other contracts and then they were banned from bidding on any contracts for ten years and fined 5 million. WELL, seems that the company owned the patten on the part and were the only ones on the list to supply so the gov. went right back to them to get them. They had overridden their contract by over seven million so they made 2 million clear and still had the right to bid!! ANY part that the government gets supplied should be able to be farmed out if the government finds a company that can do it cheaper and still have the quality!!

        • JeffH

          “Samurai can be strange at times”? I don’t think so!
          FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver samurai

            Thank you, fellow patriot! I will admit to getting riled up when these lis come to this site and spread their lies and moronic beliefs, but other then that, I’m not strange at any time. If you want proof, ask the woman I’ve been married to for almost 26 years. She’ll tell you otherwise. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! I also agree with Dave H. on how we shouldn’t let the little things distract us from the mission. If we are distracted, morons like Obama bin Laden and the looney libs on this site, can impede our progress. Dave H., I know we have different beliefs, but I think of you as a fellow patriot and am proud to have all of the patriots stand tall next to each other in this fight. When I was in the army, I had a platoon of 40 fine fighting men. They were different religions, races, and came from different areas of the country, but I always told them that I only see green when it comes to them. If we’re all green, then we are on the same team and you don’t let little differences hinder performance. If they (looney libs) think I’m crazy, I’ll take that as being awarded another medal for fighting against the enemies of this country. I’ve been on this site since last year and I’ve notice that many of the enemies of this nation (traitors, cowards, libs, rinos, etc) have been voted out of office or don’t come to this site anymore, not that I’m complaining. Chris said he did 25 years for this country. I just want to say thank you. It’s not your service that I was talking about, but our troops and what this “messiah” in DC is possibly trying to do with them. Didn’t mean anything else. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • http://naver samurai

      Where did your brains go, there soldier? If we need money to pay off our debt then defund obamacare, get rid of our welfare state policies, medicaid, foreign aid packages to other countries (except Israel), etc., then we’ll be able to do that. He even now says that if the government shuts down, he’ll hold paychecks from our fighting forces? What moron expects an army to perform if they aren’t getting paid? How will they be able to feed their families? Are you an ostrich? Have you had your head buried somewhere for the last two years? It’s people like you that make me not want to quit. You know, the bleeding heart types that always make it possible for more of our troops to get killed. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • JC

        Love the way you think Samurai.

        • http://naver samurai

          Thank you fellow patriot! Keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • DaveH

            Being the world’s Policemen has nothing at all to do with patriotism. Our founders disdained getting involved in foreign entanglements.
            In fact, between the militarists and the welfare statists, we are fast putting our country in the financial position that will enable others to overrun us. And anybody who thinks knows that we have built up plenty of enemies out there.
            And on top of that, there’s the immorality of going overseas, picking a side, and then killing people from 5000 feet away. What happened to Innocent until Proven Guilty? Please don’t give me that “it’s war” crap, because it isn’t. We haven’t declared war on any country since World War II.
            I’m tired of the people in Government getting away with immoral behavior (stealing, killing) that the citizens would be locked up for.

        • Norm

          JC
          That’s a generous use of the word think.

          • JC

            Get back in your cave you immoral troglodyte.
            Oh! And have a nice day ;)

          • Dan az

            JC
            LOL!you made me look that one up!Me carry em big stick!

          • JC

            yeah, you don’t hear that one every day do ya? LOL
            Seemed appropriate.

          • http://naver samurai

            How about a joke my son told me today:

            Q: Why was Obama staring at an orange juice can in the supermarket?

            A: It said “concentrate.”

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Samurai,
            tell your son I said GOOD ONE!!! I wonder though, was it a joke or was it the truth??

          • http://naver samurai

            Joe H., it’s the truth in my opinion. He told me another one.

            Q: What do you call a 1000 liberals at the bottom of the ocean?

            A: A good start.

            Ah yes, the days of being in middle school. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Thank God for our troops and thank God for our strong military. Without them, we would be easy pickings for our enemies. I mean looked what happened on 9-11, just from Clinton cutting our intelligence agencies and military in half. And we are still trying to build it back up. These lefties are pacifist appeasers, and everywhere, and I mean everywhere, that pacifism has been practiced, it has failed, and failed miserable. Without our strong military, we are doomed.

        • Tom Anderson

          Beberoni,

          Are you a paid agent for the Military Industrial Complex??

          You got it upside down. We are in gravest danger because of our strong military!

          9/11 occurred BECAUSE of our STRONG MILITARY – who do you think brought down building 7?

          Why did our military KEEP ALL OF OUR NORAD FIGHTER JETS ON THE GROUND?? And when those jets finally took off (hours later) they only flew at 25% of their maximum speed.

          Stop spewing your MIC agenda. General Washingon and Gen. Ike warned us about people like you!

          During Nam we had lots of freedom loving and constitution loving guys in uniform who were truly SERVING their country. Our present military are simple poorly paid Hessian whores who will commit ANY crime if ordered and paid sufficiently. They and their CIC must be held accountable for these murders that they are committing in Libya.

          Who do you think KILLED all of those kids and women at WACO – it wasn’t the local sheriff!! It was OUR MILITARY in tanks. And they will turn their guns on us too.

          • http://naver samurai

            You better be able to show proof or cite a source to back up that nonsense about us bringing down the WTC. Sorry, but Al Queda isn’t part of our military. Waco wasn’t taken down by our military, but by federal law enforcement under Clinton and Reno. I do agree that there are soldiers serving as patriots and to defend the Constitution. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Lewis Munn

          What ever happened to Teddy Roosevelt’s, “Speak softly, but carry a big stick.”

    • DaveH

      I agree, Dave.

  • http://aol.com sean murrey

    our troops should be home another good reason for impeachment.

    • http://naver samurai

      Speaking of which, I heard that a republican lawyer is drawing up a letter of impeachment as we speak. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Norm

        samurai
        When Reagan bombed Libya where were the impeach hypocrites?

        • http://naver samurai

          Reagan had approval of Congress and the Senate. Ergo it wasn’t unconstitutional. Obama bin Laden did this without the proper litigation process and WE THE PEOPLE behind it. Get your facts straight before you post abnorm. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • bob wire

            Are you sure about that Samurai, because it came as a great surprise to more then just Libya when it occurred?

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Norm, do you think about what you say before you hit the submit button? Come on man. Obama acted illegally without congress. Reagan had congress’s vote. That is how we do things here in the United States. Its not that hard Norm. Come on man.

          • Eddie47d

            Ronald Reagan did not have Congressional approval before bombing Libya. This from the Freedoms Lighthouse site.

      • JC

        Samurai, Donald Trump has hired a team of investigators to go to Hawaii and find out what they can about the Kenyan. So far, no hospitals have any records of his birth…nothing…no where.
        And it was on (of all places) CNN this morning.

        • http://naver samurai

          Ronald Fein, a republican lawyer, is also drawing up impeachment papers as we speak. Maybe they’ll go before the SCOTUS, Senate, and Congress. Can’t guarantee the outcome, though. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          And all the liberal ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC and other liberal rags are killing him for it. They put some bimbo lady on there saying “even the Governor of Hawaii says he was born here”. Big whip. Just because some democratic governor says something, were supposed to believe him? Give me a break. And like Trump said, why would he spend a half million dollars to not show it if he could show it? You tell me that makes any sense. The dude is an imposter, and Trump is calling him out. I hope he starts asking for him to show his college papers also, because Ive already seen too many things where people went to these colleges during the supposed years he went there, and no one can recall him being there, even admissions officers. Isnt that just a bit strange to you lefties out there? It is to the rest of us.

          • kodster5

            Beberoni, the man has spent in excess of $2 MILLION to hide his personal records, including why he and his wife had their licenses to practice law stripped from them. He’s got everything boxed up so tight, that the public wants to know why? As the man even says himself, “those that have something to hide, cannot be trusted”. Everyone else, including John McCain, was upfront and straightforward, about their birth certificates. Not this man! It’s because he DOESN’T have a birth certificate that qualifies him, per the Constitution’s specifications, to be POTUS! Now you wonder why Donald Trump, Newt Gingrich, et al, have come forward about their past marriages, affairs, etc? Because they know it will come out during the campaign process. So, the best defense is offense, in this situation.

            Obama has spent over $2 million defending his right to keep his records sealed, and for what? Wouldn’t it be easier to just bring out the damned birth certificate that everyone wants to see, the long form that proves that he is eligible, and just shut everyone up and be done with it? As Donald Trump says… that’s all he wants to see… he’s not a “birther” per se, but the fact that Obama continues to hide it, and spend money to keep it sealed, makes Trump even more suspicious about it, makes him doubt Obama’s eligibility, on a daily increasing level.

            Think about it!

          • Eddie47d

            Beberoni; It was the previous Republican governor who had said Obama was born in Hawaii. The new Democrat Governor said he would once again show it to the public but so far hasn’t.

          • JeffH

            47D, it was the current “governor” Abercrombie that said he new Obamas family years ago and would prove Obama’s birth was in Hawaii. As of today he’s admitted that he can’t prove it and has been unable to find President Barack Obama’s birth certificate despite an intensive search.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Beberoni,
            See, there’s where the MSN LIES!!! The governor said he would PROVE Nobumma was born there by citing his long form. the last word from him was that he COULD NOT FIND IT!!!

      • kodster5

        Mr. Fein is only drawing up a draft of the Letter of Impeachment. He is NOT a member of Congress. However, according to him, several Congressional offices have been in touch with him in order to use his draft to present it in Congress. Mr. Fein cannot present it, himself. So, let’s only hope and pray that those Congressional offices have the guts to get the draft, and use it against Obama. That’s the question that still waits to be answered. Who has the balls to do it???? And are there enough members of Congress who will stand up and do the right thing… get rid of Obama… or will they roll over and let him continue to take us to ruin.

        My gut feeling is, none of them do, and we will go down in ruin. I don’t want our troops overseas anymore. But we do need to be prepared to defend our country. We have absolutely no business in being in ANY other country’s affairs, including foreign aid. We have made a mess of our own affairs, we’re being considered hypocrites by other nations, and they are laughing at us, by us telling them how to run theirs. It’s time for us to shut up, and go back to what we were designed to be… isolationists. Our Founding Fathers did not want to be involved in other countries. One of the reasons why they designed our constitution so that CONGRESS, as a group, had to approve any declaration of war. They rightly figured that if a consensus of men felt it was necessary, rather than one individual, then the effort of war was worth it.

        • Dan az

          Kodster5
          Sign the petition below to help give the congress what they need, balls.
          http://www.petition2congress.com/2349/petition-to-remove-barack-obama-as-president-united-states-americ/

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Dan az,
            Thanks for the link! I’ve signed about ten of them so far and will sign any that I find!! I got the t-shirt and wear it proudly!!!

          • Kate8

            Dan az – I always wonder if these lists go to DHS.

            You know they could have them if they wanted to.

          • Dan az

            I dont know Kate,Hope so I relish the idea!Bring it on Big Sis!I know I’m on the list from all the letters that I’ve sent to congress and to bozo.I’m not getting any younger so the sooner the better.By the way what elevation are you at?

          • Kate8

            Dan az. I hear ya. I know I’m on a few of their lists, too, with all the emails, letters and other things I’ve participated in.

            Elevation? Around 2500ft. Why? Did you look at the US Navy Map?

            BTW, lots of people are saying the next quakes will hit the New Madrid area and Los Angeles. Seattle is another possibility. In any case, they are predicting them for THIS YEAR, at any time now.

            People monitoring the HAARP stations are saying that, just prior to the Japan quakes, HAARP was going furiously. It looks to me like this current scenario has been carefully planned out for decades: building nuclear plants on major faultlines, building HAARP facilities
            around the world, and so on. The latest thing I heard was that the military was hauling tons of quartz into the New Madrid area. Quartz would increase the resonance beamed at them, increasing the power of the quake.

            Anyway, it’s all been set up to destroy life on Earth. I don’t know if you know who Dr. Rima is…anyway, she treated a “well-known diplomat” awhile back (a woman) who said that it was almost time for the “culling” of the “useless eaters” to begin. She said that we are “using up all of “their” resources.

            I figure where I live will be beach. Of course, odds are a tidal wave would level most of the area. But then, like you said, I’m not getting any younger, so my only concern is my family.

            Que sera, sera.

          • Dan az

            Hey kate
            Yea I was looking at the map!Have you ever been tested for your esp?lol.
            Truth is I feel something coming soon dont know what but the bones never lie!Alot of spraying going on here daily,ten to fifteen jets at a time.I never gave it much thought before about the con trails but when you see a con trail next to the sprayers you soon become a believer.Hope you and yours are all doing well.

  • Ted

    The US attacking Libia really promotes Obama’s Muslim agenda.

    • Bob

      It does promote his muzzie agenda if his buds the muslim brothahood take over!!!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      It does, it really does. It paves the way for the muslims to come in and rule, with us doing the dirty work for them. You cant see that?

    • jovianus

      Ummm…not only is there no “Muslim Agenda’ (another lie put out by the wacked)…but in case you didn’t notice, we didn’t attack Libya. It was NATO and the French and Brits were the first ones in the air.

      We have no ‘boots on the ground” and we’re supporting our obligations with NATO.

      Now what was that you were trying to say (or lie about)?

      • http://naver samurai

        No, but we do have boots in the air, called pilots, that drop bombs on positions there. I guess you can say that we do have troops there. Get your facts straight before you post. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • DaveH

        You have no idea if there are boots on the ground or not, Jovianus. Neither do I. But I have to wonder where is the coalition getting its necessary ground intel from? Who is providing the laser targeting for the laser-guided bombs? And why would anybody in their right mind believe anything coming out of the Obama administration?
        http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/the-good-news-and-bad-news-about-sneakers-on-the-ground/

      • Dale on the left coast

        Jovi . . . Who is NATO . . . why its MOSTLY THE USA . . . do you pride yourself in being Clueless???

      • S.C.Murf

        The U.S. Air Force fired the first shot and we have had CIA on the ground for about 4 weeks now. What is your next lie jovbob?

      • JeffH

        jovi, why don’t you give it up! “boots on the ground”? You have to be paid to say the stuff you say because nobody could be that…???
        Maybe I am wrong and you really are that…???

      • JC

        jovianus says:
        April 8, 2011 at 8:33 am
        Ummm…not only is there no “Muslim Agenda’ (another lie put out by the wacked)…but in case you didn’t notice, we didn’t attack Libya. It was NATO and the French and Brits were the first ones in the air.

        We have no ‘boots on the ground” and we’re supporting our obligations with NATO.

        Now what was that you were trying to say (or lie about)?
        ___________________________________________________________________

        You don’t have a clue how things really work, do you?
        You are Hilarious! :)

    • Chris

      You have to have a good sense of humor to read some of this crap

      • http://naver samurai

        If its crap to you, then don’t read it and leave. We won’t mind at all. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • DaveH

          You don’t even know what “crap” he’s talking about, Samurai. Quit trying to censor people.

          • http://naver samurai

            Then he should elaborate better on what he’s talking about. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Chris

          Sam, I think I will stay; I get a kick out of some people making fools of themselves.

          • Carlucci

            Chris, B

            By all means, stay. Many posters on this blog come up with some very introspective (and at times, hilarious) comments.

    • Eddie47d

      If attacking Libya is Obama’s Muslim “agenda” then attacking Iraq must be Bush’s Muslim agenda.

      • Lewis Munn

        Could have been Cheney’s, to get more business to his company.

        Bush didn’t have enough brains left from his collegiate drunks to blow his nose if you set them all off at once.

  • Former Walmart person

    We have unions to fight corrupt bosses, so why not unions to fight a corrupt commander in chief? All it would take to end the war would be for the admirals in charge of each carrier battle group to agree to not send a single plane for a bombing mission unless at the very least, congress formally declares war. A single admiral could be court martialed. All the admirals / generals being court martialed is a little more difficult. And don’t give me that crap that soldiers have to blindly follow orders. Soldiers have to obey all orders that are in line with the constution. Technically, any soldier engaging in war that congress didn’t formally declare is considered a traitor and a warmonger, warmongering without the consent of the American people through the congress.

    Sigh…. we have unions where we don’t need them (public sector) and no unions where we desperately need them…

    • Lastmanstanding

      Unions are a group of people that are TOLD OR FORCED (in most cases) that they will be stronger if they stand “collectively”. So hiding in the crowd makes them stronger?

      Those who stand alone, individually, who recognize that if they can find someone just like them, will be far stronger.

      The Founders intended that everyone be an individual and be able to stand alone. Then choose to unite with another. That is FREEDOM.

      Marx coined the term “collectivism.” Enough said?

    • DaveH

      I agree with your sentiment, Person (that the military should refuse to get involved in Unconstitutional conflicts), but not your solution. The last thing we need is more Unions.

    • kodster5

      All the more reason why, if Obama decides to cut off the military’s pay, they should take their last paycheck, and go to the nearest airport and come home. That would speak volumes to Obama and his administration, as well as to Congress. That would be a unionized response to his administration. After all, all of these wars should be shut down!

      • Vigilant

        And it would definitely be Obama’s fault if the pay is stopped. He’s already said he would veto the Republican’s bill that would continue funding for the military through the end of the year.

        What an arrogant ass, putting politics ahead of our military’s welfare.

  • hkcon

    the worst part of it all is, they make our guys follow engagement rules, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan, that are insane to the point of treasonous. Argue all you want about send them here or there and right or wrong, but when you do send them, do not tie both hands behind their backs and get them killed or injured in the name of politics. Our boys and girls deserve better.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I agree, and Vietnam was the worst case scenario of that. They sent them in, with no plans to win, left them in places being bombarded with no back-up coming, and told them not to shoot back. It was insane. Im pretty sure if I were there, I would have been court martialed, because anything that didnt look American to me, I would have shot, right or wrong, in war, self protection comes first. And these idiots at the top have no idea, most of them. That is one big difference in McCain and Obama, and although Im not a McCain man, the dude was there, and knows about war. Obama hasnt a clue. He has never had to suffer anything being taken from him. He has always been on the end of getting things given to him. Big difference in understanding these things when your brought up that way.

      • DaveH

        Even better, we shouldn’t have sent our soldiers there in the first place. Not our country, not our war.

        • Carlucci

          There or anywhere else for the past 50 years…

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Berberoni,
        On a flight one time, our pilot and crewchief both saw uniforms on a sampan and called in for permission to fire. We were told negative may be friendly troops. Well my pilot buzzed them two or three times and when they started firing he radioed in and told them, “Recieving friendly fire and returning same!! True story!!! I swear by the man above!! the CO tried his damnedest to courtsmartial him and the base commander got word of it and told him that anytime the pilots and men were fired on they WOULD return fire by HIS order!!! We were lucky to have him!!

  • Barb

    Unions to contain corrupt bosses? Are you kidding me! Unions are corrupt. Look at Wisconsin. Sorry to be off subject but couldn’t contain myself.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I agree, and they care only about themselves and collecting money, and not about this country. I know. The one I worked in for 8 years doing outside labor, every year hired illegal aliens to do landscape work, and they all sent the money home, then went home during the winter. Its a crock. And they were the first to be given jobs in the spring, as the union Business Agent was also hispanic. They are dirty as dirty gets. And yes, they do pay the mob, and they do pay the democrats. Seen it first hand. I know its true.

      • Eddie47d

        What Mob? What Democrat? Tell us exactly who was paying whom?

        • Vigilant

          Eddie, check out http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

          I’ve given this link before, but apparently you didn’t feel it worth your time to check it. The unions of all stripe are the big donors to the Democratic Party. Hell, even the Dems admit it, why can’t you?

          • JeffH

            Vigilant, that link has been posted so many times the janitor knows it by heart…some just refuse to accept facts.

          • Eddie47d

            Beberoni still didn’t answer my question and my question had nothing to do with your list. Although interesting I see Vigilant and Jeff are the usual smart Azz’s.Nice to see you have the National Assoc of Beer Manufacturer,Walmart and surprise surprise GENERAL MOTORS. Whew! With the way you slam them around? Then there is BP and ENRON. Heck! I’ll take those union guys any day over your crowd.

          • JeffH

            47D, for someone who accused another poster of being “starnge at times” and someone who’s never answered answered a question when being called out for saying something totally off the cuff and someone who’s about one sandwich short of a bag lunch, you sure do a lot of “demanding” from others around here and post a lot of simple minded comments from your potty mouth. The only “smart azz” is the big dummy, 47D!

          • Eddie47d

            I answer almost all questions asked Jeff so stop poisoning the well.There may be times I don’t come back during the day so I may miss a question. I could point several times where you never answered my questions . So stop throwing stones in your glass house.

          • JeffH

            47D, once again, you’ve shown you are the liar!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            yes you answer questions at times, but with your worthless words and very seldom with proof or real stand up sites!!

    • Mick

      Barb says:
      April 8, 2011 at 7:40 am
      Unions to contain corrupt bosses? Are you kidding me! Unions are corrupt. Look at Wisconsin. Sorry to be off subject but couldn’t contain myself.

      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      Barb,,,

      Unions and democrats are very tight and very similar in their actions with a lot of respect for each other, I guess you could call it honor among thieves so why would an ethical citizen with America’s best interest at heart would want to elect the biggest crooks around ,,,it floors me to see so many support the crud of this earth…….

      • Thamera

        Unions = Legalized Mafia

  • http://www.piedmontwebmasterservices.com Dan

    I am so po’d about this also. Everyone, even “conservatives” keep spouting the same thing, we need regime change in Libya. Has any one of them actually looked into who is behind the rebellion and why? Are we fighting to turn Libya into another arm of the Muslim Brotherhood? From all appearances it does. I wonder what ties Obama has to the Muslim Brotherhood?

    • Norm

      Dan
      Where were you when Adolph Bush was president and Benito Cheany was VP?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Now Norm, you show your true colors, left wing agenda based is all you are. You cried and cried about Bush/Cheny/Halliburton and the war for oil. You cried about them being war mongers. But now that your left wing idiots are in charge, they are running the old two wars, escalating one of them, and started a new war, in an oil producing country. Why are they conducting an illegal war for oil in your eyes like the last guys were? Whats up with that Norm. And the last guy defied us and wanted to take us out. This Libya guy never mentioned going against us. You cant have it both ways Norm. Your either against war against tyrants, or your for it? And its all wars for oil if the country has oil, according to your own left wing politics. So what sayeth you Normy?

        • Norm

          Beberoni
          I’m against all wars of unjustified aggression. That includes Korea, Nam, Panama, Granada, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and all the rest. It matters not who started them.

          • DaveH

            Then why didn’t you just say so in the first place?

      • JC

        Norm says:
        April 8, 2011 at 8:28 am
        Dan
        Where were you when Adolph Bush was president and Benito Cheany was VP?
        ———————————————————-

        Where are YOU…NOW?
        Still whining about the past? Still sniveling?
        You sir are a very minor distraction to anything real or pertinent.
        And what is REAL…and what is PERTINENT is our situation TODAY.
        Get it?

        • http://naver samurai

          I think that this would be a big mistake to require abnorm, or any other lib, to think. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Norm

            We are the product of our past.
            Once a war is started you can’t instantly stop it. We just never learn. But now let’s just blame Obama for the last 50 years.
            P.S. name calling is infantile.

          • http://naver samurai

            While I agree with you that once you start a war it just doesn’t come to an abrupt end, but if do this in Lybia, which wasn’t a threat to us, what country will we hit next with this so called POTUS? We’re already stretched to thin and our supply lines are over extended, so what do you suggest? As far as the name calling, I only call you names because of the lib rhetoric, inuendo, and lies that you post. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Eddie47d

            Samurai; Point out Norm’s lies.

          • JC

            Norm says:
            April 8, 2011 at 9:07 am
            We are the product of our past.
            Once a war is started you can’t instantly stop it. We just never learn. But now let’s just blame Obama for the last 50 years.
            P.S. name calling is infantile.
            _____________________________________________________________

            I didn’t call you a name.
            And let me help you expand on that thought of yours:
            We have learned from the past and know from experience
            that we must act NOW!

            Get it? (you don’t do you…)

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Samurai,
            “troops streatched too thin and supply lines too long”. anybody like yourself and me knows that is the biggest thing that defeated Adolf!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Right on, Joe H! Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • JC

            Joe H. says:
            April 9, 2011 at 7:55 pm
            Samurai,
            “troops streatched too thin and supply lines too long”. anybody like yourself and me knows that is the biggest thing that defeated Adolf!!!
            ——————————————————————

            Combine those circumstances with a devaluation of the currency and you have an exact repeat of the Fall of the Roman Empire.
            (except this time it’s deliberate)

      • DaveH

        Somebody lend me a barf bag please.
        Norm, do you Liberals ever quit with the “where were you when Bush” stuff? How do you know where we were, what we thought? I do realize that you are the intelligent ones (yeah, sure), but nobody is that intelligent. And you’re showing the lack of it with that statement.

        • Norm

          DaveH
          Come on Dave, virtually all conservatives supported Bush. They even supported him very actively up to the end of his term. Obama takes over and suddenly he is a war- monger. Give me a break!
          I will admit that some Dems also were Bush war supporters, like that idiot Lieberman who represents my state. His days fortunately are almost over.

          • JC

            Norm says:
            April 8, 2011 at 1:02 pm
            DaveH
            Come on Dave, virtually all conservatives supported Bush. They even supported him very actively up to the end of his term. Obama takes over and suddenly he is a war- monger. Give me a break!
            ————————————————————-

            Well then, going by your logic, it’s fair to say that nearly ALL liberals are communists and would likely vote for Hugo Chavez if he ran for POTUS…
            After all, we’ve already seen you elect a foreigner…so why not, right?

          • Carlucci

            Norm, How do you know that most of the people on this list voted for Bush? I certainly didn’t either time, and I didn’t vote for Obummer, either.

            Vote Libertarian. They have all the good ideas.

          • Palin12

            Don’t forget the Hildebeast who voted to authorize miltary action in Iraq.

          • DaveH

            You’re talking about right-wingers, Norm. True Conservatives don’t advocate our Government as the World’s Policemen.

          • Eddie47d

            Carlucci;Only a couple of folks I know has ever admitted they voted for Bush.(My sister-in law and brother -in law)Neither has said a word after the 2004 election. I asked this question last week.If Libertarians are so in tune to everything then why can’t they get their message out? Why do few vote for them? They had a pop up poll on this site last year with a list about the various political parties. I came out a strong Libertarian even though I’m more liberal on social issues.

          • DaveH

            Eddie,
            You are about as Libertarian as I am Catholic. You can fool yourself, but you can’t fool us.
            Why can’t Libertarians get their message out? Perhaps because the Big-Government-owned MSM has done their best to exclude our voice. Neither main party wants Libertarians in their midst to screw up their gravy train. Why would Media Moguls want a party in power that believes in Free Markets? Then they would have to compete to keep their big paychecks. It’s much easier to buy off their favorite politicians. Right-wing Republicans don’t want us for the same reason left-wing Democrats don’t want us — because we would shrink Government dramatically (thus their power).
            But thanks to Rupert Murdoch and his Libertarian spokesmen (John Stossel and Judge Napolitano on Fox Business Channel) we are getting more exposure then ever before. I think as more people learn about our simple and effective platform our membership will expand rapidly. The citizens would benefit greatly from our principles, except for those in the political class. Even those who would have to accept being weaned from the Government teet would be happier in the long run as they would once again feel like worthwhile human beings.

          • DaveH
      • http://www.piedmontwebmasterservices.com Dan

        Since the wars prior to Libya were not the topic of the article I didn’t address them. We are discussing the Libya war and why a socialist President want’s to defend the Muslim Brotherhood.

      • Dale on the left coast

        Norm . . . Adolph and Benito were both SOCIALISTS/Progressives . . . Obummer is a Socialist/Progressive . . . get the connection now???

        • Eddie47d

          Now that sounds like more right wing lies on the left coast.

        • Norm

          Dale on the left coast
          Adolph and Benito were right wing Fascists. Ask Stalin and the communist Spanish government whose side the Fascists were on.

          • JC

            The German acronym for National Socialist is NAZI. Fact.
            And you’re saying that socialism is an attribute of the right?

            You need a nap and maybe some cookies. :)

          • bob wire

            zealot, extremism right or left means little when the boot in on your neck and next to impossible to tell apart. They look identical and share human cruelty while their flag might have different colors.

        • Norm

          Dale on the left coast
          The teabaggers, financed by rhe Koch (cock??) brothers, very closly resemble the NAZI movement in Germany.
          There was little socialism in the National Socialist Party. Most of Germany’s war producers like Daimler, BMW, Mauser, Krupp, etc. are still in private hands and doing well.

          • JC

            Tell us more about “teabagging”.
            You seem to be very well versed with the term. ;)

            (actually I’d rather you kept that between you and your boyfriend)

          • JC

            Norm says:
            April 9, 2011 at 8:24 am
            Dale on the left coast
            The teabaggers, financed by rhe Koch (cock??) brothers, very closly resemble the NAZI movement in Germany.
            There was little socialism in the National Socialist Party. Most of Germany’s war producers like Daimler, BMW, Mauser, Krupp, etc. are still in private hands and doing well.
            ______________________________________________________________
            Good Job Norm! You managed to leave out the part where Hitler installed “directors” in all those companies. He didn’t take them, he just told them what to build, when to build, how much they’d be paid, could keep)…in other words, complete control at gunpoint.
            BUT…he didn’t actually kick them out of their building and put his own people in those seats.

            Those companies were returned to private control about a half million dead allied soldiers later.

            You should read more Norm.

          • DaveH

            What? Read more and risk realizing what an ignoramus he’s been? Not likely.

      • JeffH

        Normy, that seems to be the only defensive strtegy for some of you libs and it’s worse than an old retread. “where were you when…???” LMAO!

      • Lewis Munn

        Why have you the audacity to call a poor mental defective, brain damaged in his teens by alcohol, a legal but very damaging damaging drug, by the name of an evil man??

        Cheney gave him his day’s orders nearly every morning.

  • Warrior

    I guess some methods of population control are more acceptable than others.

  • Donald

    I don’t often agree with Chip, but he is totally right on this! One caveat. All this jumping into war by our Chief Executives began with Truman going into Korea under the guise of a “Police Action”. After that there was Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, the two Bushes and now Obama. The Congress, long ago, abdicated it’s role in Declaring War. Also, since WWII, we have not been very good at winning wars on foreign soil.

    Speaking of lines from songs, there’s this one from the Vietnam era: “When will we ever learn, When will we ever learn…”.

    • JKO

      But why has it been difficult to win wars? Because most of them have ended up in the hands of politicians. Korea did allow South Korea to stay independent. In Vietnam had Congress allowed Nixon to bomb Hanoi that would have been a completely different outcome. Instead our soldiers came running home with their tails between their legs. Bush 1 actually did have us in and out quickly. Had Clinton done his part as prez to keep Saddam in line (as he broke the treaty he signed almost everyday) we would not have had to go into Iraq and my guess is that we would have had better success in Afghanistan.
      But in all of these cases we were asked to come into the frey or were upholding a signed treaty. This is not the case in Libya. No one has asked us for help and, as far as I know, we don’t have a treaty that has been broken with them.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I agree with the statement about politicians running the wars. If you free the military’s hand, and tell them to go in and take the guy out and do what you have to do, and let them get ugly and take care of business, you wouldnt have this problem. But when the politicians tie our young peoples hands, and bow down to political correctness in the actions we take, while the enemy is allowed to cut off peoples heads on live TV and thats ok, well then we have a big problem. A big problem. You take the gloves off against these guys, and you throw all the rules away. You become ruthless, and hunt them down like the dogs they are. If there is collateral damage, so what. Let the people know that, and they will stop protecting and harboring them, and they will tell us where they are at. But not until then. Until we do that, we dont even know who we are fighting over there half the time, because they put on their civilian clothes and hide amongst the people. Time to roll up the sleeves, free our guys and girls hands, and let the military be the military, instead of making them be ballet dancers. Its stupid as can be.

        • Lastmanstanding

          Beberoni…you have correctly described war. Not what we are currently involved in. Simply look at the time frame and worldwide carnage of WW1 and 2…Those who fund war realized that by simply extending it, more money could be made. Sick, isn’t it.

          Better yet, look who controls it now.

      • S.C.Murf

        If Nixon didn’t bomb hanoi then who the hell did? The Air Force blasted their butts day after day until they agreed to a cease fire to let us get out of their country and to make sure McCain and the rest of the POW’s came home. You need to re-read history. Maybe the higher ups think that if they let the muslim brotherhood take over the middle east and then refuse to sell oil to America then the higher up’s will tell us that it is our right to take over the mid east so we can have the oil we need. And they ( the higher up’s ) will have complete control

        • JKO

          But this was not to win the war but to get our guys out after we had pretty much given in to the N. Vietnamese. Had we done this before we had pretty much thrown in the towel the outcome may have been different.

        • bob wire

          Lyndon Johnson and men like myself. Actually I just made the bombs, the standard more common 500 pounders for a year before I enlisted to serve.

          We dropped many bombs during Nixon’s tenure but nothing like the bombing of Hanoi, B52 Strikes under Johnson. It’s a very cruel weapon and does little discriminating.

          Did that answer your question?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        JKO,
        while I agree in principle to what you say, I take umbrage to your “tail tucked between their legs”statement! We won EVERY battle we engaged in over there and took the fight to them! I had NO tail tucked on me, I was dam proud of our battle record!! We also supported many of the orphanages over there both in money and protection! There is nothing you or anybody else here can say to make me ashamed of the common soldiers performance there!! And certainly not MINE!!

  • Demoncrat Exorcist

    Obama did not have the authority to attack Libya. That Kenyan SOB should be kicked out of office along with Pelosi, Reid, and all other communists both Democrat and Republican.
    The facts surrounding the last presidential election sounds contrived. As a member the local Tea Party, we would like to know why Barry Soetoro AKA Barack Obama was not properly vetted before the election? We would also like to know if Republicans were involved in all the smoke and mirrors of vetting McCain to take the focus off of Barry’s ineligibility?
    In fact, we feel that McCain is either an idiot or he is part of a conspiracy that led to the election of an illegal alien. We feel that there’s nothing legal or honest about Obama’s citizenship or his past. Every thing about Obama and his gangsters reeks of distortion and cover up. Barry’s actions, ordering military action against Libya was as illegal as his citizenship. Americans should be demanding his removal from office. That Kenyan SOB is an illegal alien.

    • kodster5

      You know, Demoncrat Exorcist, you may have hit on something there! I’d say that McCain is PART of the conspiracy, because if you recall, all the townhall meetings that he held on the campaign trail? Where the folks literally BEGGED him to stand up and say the right thing, challenge Obama, get the truth out to the people? He didn’t do a damned thing, did he? He just placated the people, and came across as a wimp. Even his own running mate, Sarah Palin, was chomping at the bit to speak out, but she was shackeled, too. She still is, and that may be one of the reasons why she got out of politics for a while.

  • http://n/a John Beach

    “Why on earth should this country spend millions of dollars, risk hundreds of our servicemen’s lives and end up killing and maiming innocent women and children (and some adult men who admittedly aren’t so innocent) for “regime-change” in Libya? What the heck business is that of ours?”

    The simple answer is that the U.S. is a house divided and politicians can get away with this stuff because they are always representing some portion of the divided house. Bush may have thought the terrorism “will not stand.” Somebody ought to look to the divided house and see just how long it can possibly stand going in the direction we are. Say what you will about establishmentarianism, it left no doubt as to who believed what and what the pecking order would be. Those days are gone and the royals dance to the music of the common folk. Government is vaudeville, a sham and a disgrace.

    • Norm

      John Beach
      Just thank God that McCain is not president.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Again, Im not a McCain fan, but the guy is a credit when compared to Obama. A freaking huge credit compared to Obama. And I dont care for McCain at all, but we would have been in a lot better place without having a foreigner sitting in the White House, who cares more about his muslim brethren than he does about the people that elected him. And thats the facts Norm. But relax, I know, your not interested in the truth or facts. If you were, you wouldnt vote Democrat and get illegal aliens elected as president.

        • Norm

          Beberoni
          Only an idiot (including Trump) would still believe that birther BS.

          • http://naver samurai

            If it is BS, moron, then why can’t they find it? Why can’t they find any of his records of anytime in his life? Sound like a pawn in this chess game to me. Who is the king? I have no idea, but there are too many people that can fit that roll. OK abnorm, just tell me one thing. What country was on his passport when he went to Pakistan in the 1980′s? We couldn’t go there at the time, so what country was it? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Michael J.

            Normie babie,
            Only an idiot would still believe the certificate of live birth is adequate to prove eligibility.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Norm,
            come on dude!!! Even the Governor of Hawaii can’t Find his LONG FORM BC!!!!! IT DOESN’T EXHIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • http://naver samurai

        My next door neighbors goat would be a better president then the one we have now, abnorm. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • DaveH

        You’re right about that, Norm, but for the wrong reasons. If McCain had been elected Big Government would have grown more slowly, more stealthily, and people would still be in their apathetic stupors.
        Thanks to Obama’s overt and dramatic building of Big Government, the citizens are finally starting to get their heads out, and discussing politics like never before in recent history.
        Hopefully, it will be enough to stop the Leviathan before they have completely taken over our lives.

        • Thamera

          Good point DaveH.

        • http://naver samurai

          I agree also. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        John Beach,
        By all means just be glad Norm isn’t pres!!!

  • Pilgrim

    Chip, Chip,Chip…..if you read the Muslim’s books, it will become clear who they are..you know just like Obama. There are no innocent Muslims….only the ones that will tolerate us being alive for as long as they can use us. As soon as they have no use for us then they all become extremist. It’s called Taqiyaha. It’s the lies they tell to an infidel to make them think they are not going to cut their head off. Our government”s foreign policy towards Islamic states is akin to trying to talk a rabid dog out of attacking and killing you. Sending our troops to Libya is like taking the rabid dog to the vet to try and save it. That kind of policy is bound to fail.

    • Norm

      Pilgrim

      Of all religions, Christianity is without a doubt the one that should inspire tolerance most, although, up to now, the Christians have been the most intolerant of all men
      — Voltaire

      In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
      -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

      • JKO

        Norm, while I do agree with your quotes for the most part, it has actually been the hierarchy that has caused most of the intolerance. Those of us who actually read the Bible and listen to God and see the example of Jesus know how to tolerate anyone.
        I will admit that for a long time I lived by the letter of the law instead of love. Now I have friends who are gay, use drugs, are alcoholics, etc. I now know that my job is to love them and be their friend and if a change IS needed that is God’s job, not mine. It works SO MUCH better that way.
        Had I just trusted my pastors I would not live in this place. We as Americans need to stop trusting anyone and find out for ourselves what the truth is.

        • Norm

          Amen brother.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Norm,
            even though your quote has merit, not all Christian religeons in present day HAVE priests!!!! You can go to a thousand different baptist churches and not a one of them are like the one that pickets the funerals of fallen vets like is done!! not all southern baptist churches worship with snakes like the couple that do in the south! My father was a deacon in the first church of christ and a 55 year mason! He was a very devout Christian! He helped people from all walks of life as I would as well. Just don’t ask me to accept all those walks of life!!

        • Michael J.

          JKO,
          You and Normie babie are living in a kumbaya wetdream. Wake up and change the sheets. No amount of tolerance will keep the radical Muslamics from sawing your head off once they find out you like your quim on a stick.

          • JKO

            BTW I’m a sister – therefore no wet dreams:).
            I do agree with you MJ, there are many many radical Muslims. But let me just say that my answer was to Christians.
            I would like to think that I would be able to befriend a Muslim in hopes of bringing him to the Lord, even if it meant losing my head. But I can’t say honestly that I have that kind of bravery.

            I will say this – if we don’t get the middle east under control we will all have to face the reality of becoming Muslim or losing our heads. That’s why my husband and I are cleaning the rifles and storing the food.

          • Carlucci

            Michael J – I have lived in Saudi Arabia. You might be surprised at how many hypocritical mooslim men “like their quim on a stick”. Right after we arrived, there was a scandal going on in the city where we lived. The story was that a male saudi and a male phillipino (probably a servant) were caught having sex. This topic was being discussed at a cocktail party on a U.S. Airforce base that my husband and I attended. According to Islam (a.k.a. a weird, twisted “religion”) a man is allowed to “give”, but it is against the law for a man to “receive”, so the guy on the receiving end is in big trouble if caught. My husband and I didn’t believe it, but enough people at the party (who had lived there a long time) spoke up and verified it was true.

            (Yes, a cocktail party with alcohol was legal, as military bases and embassies are off limits to the Islamic religious laws).

          • Michael J.

            JKO,
            I appologize, I thought you were one of Normie babies buddies.
            Welcome aboard fellow patriot.

          • Michael J.

            Carlucci,
            Thanks, I did not know the give and take of the situation. I guess you are saying that like in baseball terms, if you’re a pitcher you’re safe, but if you’re a catcher you’re screwed?

          • JKO

            Apology accepted Michael and thanks for being a person of integrity and willing to admit when you make a mistake.
            But I don’t actually disagree with Norm here.

          • Carlucci

            Michael J said:

            “Carlucci,
            Thanks, I did not know the give and take of the situation. I guess you are saying that like in baseball terms, if you’re a pitcher you’re safe, but if you’re a catcher you’re screwed?”

            Hmm…yes, I guess that’s a pretty good analogy.

        • Carlucci

          JKO – I agree. You cannot force your views on anyone, but you can set a good example, as actions always speak louder than words.

        • DaveH

          That’s good, JKO. I hope you do indeed practice what you preach.

          • JKO

            I do now. Not so much before 5 years ago. And I must tell you that I am a MUCH nicer person now than I was then. And I have some awesome friends because they know I love them where they are at and have no secret agenda.

        • Thamera

          There is a HUGE difference between tolerance and acceptance….the two seem to get blurred from time to time.

          • Kate8

            Yeshua said that saints did not need saving. He came for the sinner.

            He offered them a choice, but He NEVER condoned their sin. He said that if we want salvation, we must repent (change our thinking), give up sin and FOLLOW HIM.

            It is for a Christian to minister to those who are “sick”, but NEVER allow the sickness to infect him.

      • DaveH

        And now those priests have been substituted with enviromentalists and other Liberals who are leading the blindered citizens with their sweet-sounding lies.

      • Pilgrim

        You are implying that knowing the history of Christianity will change the nature of Islam. In order to know the nature of Islam and how it affects you, a Christian, you need to read the Koran and the Hadith. Until then you are simply speculating, unarmed, without the facts.

        • JKO

          I have actually studied the history of Islam and read some parts of the Quran. I like to know all sides of any given situation.

      • Dale on the left coast

        Norm . . . putting the quotes in “Context” . . . . they were both speaking of the Roman Church not Christianity in general.

        • Norm

          Dale on the left coast
          Actually Voltaire used the word Christian because he was referring to all Christians in Europe at that time (1700′s). Jefferson was talking about all religions in general including Christians. The Roman Catholic faith is far less radical, BTW, than many of the off-the-wall evangelical sects. Look at the late Falwell, Robertson, and (yes) Huckabee.

          I may grow rich by an art I am compelled to follow; I may recover health by medicines I am compelled to take against my own judgment; but I cannot be saved by a worship I disbelieve and abhor.
          – Thomas Jefferson, notes for a speech, ca. 1776

          • Kate8

            Norm – Just what is your definition of radical? From what I’ve seen, Falwell was an upstanding man who did many good things. I never heard him say anything I thought was out of line. Same with Robertson.

            I know these men have been demonized by the liberal media, but that is just what it is: demonization.

            The Roman Catholic church was, back then and from its inception, in bed with the State. They wielded a great deal of control over people and governments. They changed God’s Laws, Times and Precepts. How is that NOT radical?

            I have nothing against Catholics, mind you. I used to be one, and many in my family still are, and are very fine people. That doesn’t alter the facts, though. The entire church establishment has been affected by the corruption of Yeshua’s teachings by the Roman Church, which usurped Christ’s authority in order to gain control of the movement. Much of the Truth of Yeshua’s message has been hidden from all but the select few, who have used it for their own purposes.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        Norm,
        2)www.barefootsworld.net/founding.html

  • http://none dave buls

    chip,

    although i usually laud you as a sane and kind man, i agree and disagree here. as the husband of a woman from morocco, i wish north africa and the middle east to be free and prosperous again. the insane thuggery of the regimes there has to go. egypt used to be a great country, prosperous and peaceful. as for the others, wouldn’t it be nice to be able to visit north africa and the middle east, and see prosperity and equality again? my kids admit that occupation of morocco under the french brought infrastructure and sophistication to that country. when africa was occupied by europe in the 19th and 20th centuries, it brought peace, management and prosperity. when europe was forced out, chaos ensued. just now is africa developing on its own, which is fantastic.

    the problem with america being there is that our government is causing trouble at home already. so, it would be fair to assume that we would cause more trouble there than real assistance. if we continue to attempt to flex our muscles, it will come back to destroy us. our government needs to adopt a hands off approach for awhile, and things will work out. most civilizations destroy themselves from within, not because they failed to put down a threat, but because they lose the trust and will of their people from within. let’s hope and pray that our government takes time to reflect during this government shutdown, that the party needs to end for awhile, and people need to sober up and consider the big picture. the best thing we can do is to get a national makeover, improve our reputation and image, and do the right things.

    • JKO

      Dave thank you for this. It is nice to hear from someone who has personal knowledge.

    • Michael J.

      dave buls,
      Throughout the history of our great nation we have helped others more than any other country. Most people today however, believe it’s time to pull back and heal our own wounds before they become terminal.

      Below is an interesting comment that you made, and in my mind is ironic because it is like what we are seeing transpire here at home.
      “when africa was occupied by europe in the 19th and 20th centuries, it brought peace, management and prosperity. when europe was forced out, chaos ensued.”

      The parelells I draw from your statement are like this:
      When America was led by constituional conservatives from the 18th through to the 20th centuries, it brought peace, management and prosperity. Since constitutional conservatives are being forced out and replaced by progressive liberal communist, chaos has ensued.”

      The work of nation building is now right here at home. After all the practice we’ve had in the last 100 years, it should be a piece of cake, right?

      END THE OBAMA DRAMA…. SHOW US THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE…

  • Norm

    I agree we should not be in Libya.
    But it was fine when Bush invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. The right wing hypocrites really need to stick to one side of the road.
    I suggest we get American troops out of every foreign country, including those in Europe and Asia. A trillion wasted dollars would have gone a long way toward eliminating deficit spending and would make us a stronger and more respected country.
    .

    • http://naver samurai

      At least with Afghanistan and Iraq Bush has the Congress and Senate vote before going over there. Obama bin Laden just sent troops without a vote or legislation from the Congress and Senate to back up his actions. In other words, Obama bin Laden’s actions are unconstitutional and he should be impeached for them. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • jovianus

        Out of curiousity…what US troops are in Libya? Ooops…

        • JKO

          Well, lets see. My dad was in the Air Force and he was a “troop”. It does take military pilots (aka troops) to fly those planes. They are flying over Libyan air space. So I guess there are troops in Libya for at leat a few minutes at a time. oops

          • JKO

            Yes I know why they don’t send donkeys to school.

          • http://n.cates@cox.net Norman F.

            The “boots on the ground” in Libya belong to the Special Forces men who “paint” the smart bomb targets for the bombers. Smart bombs are no smarter than regular bombs, except that they have a sensor that will detect and home in on a lazer lighted target. The reason it took so long to invade Iraq in the Gulf war was that the “Boots on the ground” had to cover so many miles and infiltrate so far into the heaviest populated cities of Iraq so they could paint the targets. There was a story about two SF men in a covered fox hole on the outskirts of Baghdad when a little girl lifted their cover and looked at them. She was said to smile at them, replaced the cover and ran away.

        • DaveH
        • S.C.Murf

          The CIA jovbob, at least I believe they are still considered Americans

          • S.C.Murf

            and a special marines brigade, about to be relieved by another special marines brigade. Is that enough boots for you?

            up the hill
            airborne

    • Carlucci

      I agree. Bring all the troops home and let them guard our airports and borders. Don’t you think our soldiers want to come home and guard their own country and people?

      Most importantly – WE CAN’T AFFORD IT. Imperialism is what killed the economy of the British Empire.

      • DaveH

        And the Roman empire, and the Greek empire.

        • Carlucci

          Forgot about them. Thank you.

      • kodster5

        And there, in a nutshell, is the crux of the problem, Carlucci. Obama is indeed a son of a British subject, because that’s who’s beliefs he’s following. Even in his own book (ghostwritten by Ayers), Obama’s father was against colonialism (aka, imperialism). So, Obama is acting out his father’s dreams of getting rid of it, which he perceives the US is an imperialistic country. That’s why we have a man in office that is intent on destroying us from within.

    • Don

      Norm, so why are you supporting the illegal obama, he doing the same thing but for different reasons, wake up while we still have a country !!!

    • Carlucci

      I agree – ! The US nanny government has got to stop. WE CAN’T AFFORD IT!

  • http://www.rahrens.net Robert Ahrens

    The presidential war powers derived from Woodrow Wilson authorizing the shipments of war materiel to France and England. This provocation led to the sinking of the Lusitania, which was the prime reason congress declared war on the Axis. (Austro-Hungary and Germany, Turks.)
    Then came Roosevelt whose lend lease, escorting convoys halfway to Britain, cutting off oil and scrap metal sales to Japan resulted in Pearl Harbor and congress declaring war on the Japanese Empire. Harry Truman was given a UN declaration to stop North Korean agression. I seem to recall it was a UN resolution that got us into Desert Storm.
    After Lyndon Johnson and the Tonkin Gulf resolution we found ourselves in Vietnam, Republic of, and poured our treasure and so many of our boys into that rat hole. Never forget it was Kennedy that put 12000 advisors into that country, and he authorised the coup that killed the South Vietnamese leader, and put Kiyh in charge.
    Shortly thereafter John F. was shot dead in Dallas, and Johnson sent in ground troops. In a whiplash reaction the congress eventually passed a ‘warpowers’ act that limits a president’s war making abilities by setting a time limit to military adventures; after 90 days, if congress denies funding, the troops are to be pulled out.
    I guess Ronald Reagan used the armed forces as much as either Bush, invaded Grenada, shelled Iranian oil wells, remember Iran-Contra? The power of the president to make war is indeed grounded in the constitution, he is CIC, and the chief decider..
    but the warpowers act sets forth limits to that ability, limits every president has ignored. So Obama Soeto, not technically president because of his ‘birth’ status, still ignores Congress limit his ability to make war. Perhaps we need a new resolution, or a congress courageous enough to demand he withdraw from Iraq, and Afghanistan and Libya. But what about the 120 countries we maintain a permanent military posture in? Surely that is not what our Founding Father’s envisioned and Washington least of all. God Bless America and semper fi!

    • ValDM

      I take exception to your interpretation of Viet Nam. We were there long before Kennedy even declared his intention to run for President. We were in Viet Nam in 1953-54 as early as I can determine. Kennedy did send in more troops, Johnson even more, Nixon even more. But it began long before you state.

      • kodster5

        You’re so right on that… it was Eisenhower who got us into Vietnam, and sent the first “advisers” on Feb. 12, 1955.

  • Bruce

    i find it amazing that a UN resolution gets passed and we jump into Libya like dutiful dogs. When we went into Irag, we were the bad guys with only a coalition of US, UK and Spain and the UN would not approve the invasion. Now they put us in harms way, what is wrong with this picture?

  • Norm

    Dulce bellum inexpertis.
    War is sweet to those who have never fought.

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      To Norm,

      War is sweet to the inexperienced.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        Also In Greek:

        Ο πόλεμος είναι γλυκός για το άπειρο.

        • JeffH

          Arabic

          الحرب حلوة لعديمي الخبرة

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            دبليو الحب حجة جيدة

      • Norm

        coal miner
        Thanks my Latin is a bit rusty. I didn’t translate by the way.

      • bob wire

        War is cruelty. There’s no use trying to reform it, the crueler it is the sooner it will be over.
        -William Tecumseh Sherman

        • JC

          Who, by the way was once relieved of command
          on suspicion of insanity. ;)

          • http://naver samurai

            He was also quoted as saying “War is hell!” FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        coal miner,
        “war is sweet to the inexperienced” Typed by a person that should know!!! There isn’t any more inexperienced than YOU!!!

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          John Wayne,
          Well there is his infamous playboy interview in which he states he believes in white-supremacy; and further states that blacks should be isolated until they become educated enough to participate in society. His rants on Native Americans and how they were “savages,” are well known; and during the Vietnam war there were numerous interviews and accounts of him making racist remarks against the Vietnamese. In terms of him being a racist on screen…well most westerns in those days were not kind to the Native Americans. Simply his on screen persona did not match his real life personality a bit. He had a ferocious temper that often came out negatively in interviews (his response to the question of everything being black or white “why the hell not!”); and he was a draft dodger in WWII, choosing to pursue his acting career.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            JoeH,
            Your Hero.Ha Ha Ha

          • libertytrain

            Is he not a roving coal black cloud always seeking to rain on anybody and everybody’s parade – I’ve never seen anyone jump to attack each and every soul that has accomplished something as he does – From Mother Teresa and on down from there.
            “If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives; be kind anyway.
            If you are successful, you will win some false friends and true enemies; succeed anyway.
            If you are honest and frank, people may cheat you; be honest and frank anyway.
            If you find serenity and happiness, they may be jealous; be happy anyway.
            The good you do today, people will often forget tomorrow; do good anyway…
            You see, in the final analysis, it is between you and God; it was never between you and them anyway.”
            — Mother Teresa

          • http://?? Joe H.

            coal miner,
            Hey dumazz, try paying attention to what someone is posting about. i was mentioning the fact that there are none here less experienced than you in things military and WAR!!! you who were 4F!!! you who gave up and didn’t try to serve your country OR your fellow man!! you who moans about “couldn’t get into the Marines cause of my eyes!” and gives up by never trying the other services!!!! Tell the truth for a change, you were relieved that they wouldn’t take you!!! you were scared!!

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
          • libertytrain

            I don’t go to your sites but is that the one you mentioned last time that is gravely concerned about what Mother Teresa did with all her money….. I’m sure she took it with her -

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Joe,
          This cosmos was not made by gods or men, but always was, and is, and ever shall be ever-living fire.
          Hercalitus:

          • http://naver samurai

            In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1 verse 1. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • JC

      It is up to God to grant forgiveness,
      Our job is to arrange the introductions.

      The United States Marine Corps.

      How about that one Normy? From the guys who took an oath to keep America safe… you ok with that one?

  • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

    Good points all, Chip. Little Barry Soetoro does indeed need to be gone. Impeachment is too good. He needs to be vetted, removed in handcuffs, jailed, tried for fraud and treason for starters, convctied and executed on the front lawn of the White House.

    As you stated our Founders set up our Constitution with definite paramenters. The spineless Eunicks in the House are afraid of their own shadows and have proven it by the fact that that the treasonous Kenyan is still in the White House. Bary is laughing at us, not with us.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Old Henry,
      He needs to be removed as ineligible!!! Then his actions will be null and void!!!

  • kenneth kilmer

    We christians and non-christians should be praying that God will
    change the events that are happening in the world by changing the hearts of man that the good that can come out of humanity will
    prevail. If not, the same people we are trying to protect from genoside,we will be battleing at armageddon as proficied in
    revelations.The world does have choices.Make the right one.

  • newspooner

    The Libertarian Party has the best position on the issue of US involvement in foreign wars. We should not be involved. That does not mean that the US shouldn’t protect itself militarily. That does not mean that the US shouldn’t stop aggression against allies with whom we have proper (not UN) treaties. That does not mean that the US should not try to liberate people from slavery and oppression in other countries. But we should do the liberating by exporting the philosophy of freedom and Americanism, not but attacking some tinhorn dictators (Ghadafi, etc) and tolerating others (Mao, etc). Unfortunately, it will be hard to export the concepts of freedom and Americanism as long as we have communist leaders running our own country. We need a housecleaning here first. Let’s get on with the housecleaning.

  • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

    We’re fighting to protect those good moderate Muslims. Unfortunately they in 2011 look a lot like the good moderate whites in the South in 1961. They support Sharia laws to oppress women and infidels but do not blow up any buildings. We supported “Jim Crow” laws to oppress blacks but did not lynch any of them. Besides, they have various terrorist groups to do the wet work, and we did too–the KKK, etc.

  • José Beltrán González

    Good morning and congratulations Mr. Wood. I am actually writing from Venezuela, and let me tell you this has been one of the most brilliant articles I have read lately. Witty, straightforward, full of political hindsight, and purporting to shake the spiritual and mental structure of USA leadership, for the betterment of world affairs; and FOR THE SAKE OF THE USA PEOPLE AND INTERESTS, ABOVE ALL.
    Thank you sir, have a good day; and keep at it.

    • Lastmanstanding

      Jose…Does Hugo know that your blogging/commenting on a conservative site!!!??? God Bless you man!

      • JKO

        AMEN to that and to you Jose

    • JC

      Stay safe Jose.

  • jopa

    If we don’t fight them over there we will have to fight them over here.If you are not with us you are against us(traitors).This is a win win situation where as the oil in Libya will pay for the war.According to the Bush Doctrine, Obama had every right to go into Libya.That is he felt like it so there.

    • Carlucci

      Jopa,

      Oh, please… I cannot believe you went there and dragged out that ridiculous platitude “If you are not for us, you are against us” b.s.
      What a crock.

    • JKO

      Do you actually believe the stuff you right or are you one of those guys on the Gieco commercials – you know the ones living under a rock?
      Bush had the authority, Obama does not. As stated earlier, Saddam broke the treaty and should actually have been stopped under Clinton. We have not been asked into Libya and do not have a treaty with them. Bush had the ethical (perhaps not moral) right to go into Iraq. Obama has been given no right or authority at this point. AND if Congress had given him the authority I would still not want the war, but could support Obama in this one single thing.

      • JKO

        oops, should have been write, not right.

      • bob wire

        I understand you position, mine varies however as Gaddafi signed his own death certificate years ago when Americans lost their lives in a plane crash by his hand.

    • http://naver samurai

      Bush, baaaaa! Oil, baaaaa! Chaaaaange! When are you libs going to wake up and realize it is 2011 and not 2001? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Tim

    Had Saddam been kept in check like Gaddafi then there would not have been a Iraq II war. These dictators will take what they can when they can. If they get wrapped on their knuckles they will withdraw their fingers. Shout at them and they will continue to dig their hands in deeper. Saddam + Carter + Clinton went all out.

    Gaddafi was in check – however was a whole lot brighter than Saddam and aware that the same fate could face him. Gaddafi really needs to be booted out, but the rebellion was a mess up and inadequate. America getting involved is a desperately dangerous situation where there is no winning, unless you call second place a win.

  • jopa

    Poorgrandchildren: You speak of Sharia law to oppress women and that sounds like a page out of the Teabagger and Repub playbook.They want to eliminate planned parenthood,end Medicaid and Medicare, no more student loans and pell grants.However they want to give another big bonus in tax breaks to the filthy rich that donate to their re-election campaigns rather than work for the voter that put them there in the first place.

    • http://n.cates@cox.net Norman F.

      Jopa why can’t you write a decent letter that uplifts the conversation rather than “so there” insults to people who love their country and want to contribute to its success. I am one of millions who are members of the untold thousands of Tea Parties. I am not a homosexual so I can’t be a teabagger. Get your act together.

    • Thamera

      keep drinking the kool aid Jopa. And to even equivocate the elimination of Planned Parenthood to the oppression endured by Muslim women is a slap in the face and indicative that you DO NO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT! btw: you do know that there alternatives to Planned Parenthood right?

    • S.C.Murf

      need to make that popping sound jopa soas you can get some fresh oxygen into that mush melon of yours

    • Carlucci

      jopa, you are generalizing. Planned Parenthood should be defunded. Nanny programs like that make it so easy for people to behave irresponsibly. (“What? I’m pregnant AGAIN? Better go down to P.P. and have yet another abortion because that’s what I’m using for birth control”). And don’t give me that garbage about all the free or low cost “medical care” P.P. provides. People can go to county hospitals and clinics and get the same care.

      As far as medicare and medicaid, those programs must change. If people took better care of themselves and ate properly, they wouldn’t have to seek “care” through the allopathic medical providers. And “care” these days means managing illness instead of promoting wellness.

      As far as the student loans, and Pell grants, I believe I read recently that the Pell grants are still available, but the amount has been cut down a bit. Student loans and financial aid are yet another lie that was fed to the masses. Hundreds of thousands of people are now in default on their student loans because they can’t find a job that pays well enough to make the payments on those loans. I saw an article recently, maybe it was on this site, about how obsolete the methods of teaching at colleges are now, especially when people can go online and take classes for less money. Or they can start out at community college (which I believe many of those offer online classes as well) and take all the basic courses for much less than what they would pay starting out at a four year school. Two friends of mine did that very thing and saved thousands.

      The bottom line is that all of this nanny government has got to go. If people are left up to their own devices and have to take care of themselves, you’d be surprised that they can find more than one way to skin a cat.

      • Carlucci

        By the way, I know this is off topic, but it relates to what we all were discussing a couple of weeks ago or so. Thank goodness for YouTube.

        I’m not a fan of Gary Bauer’s, but I do receive his daily newsletter “End of Day” just to see what’s going on in the world view of a big fat RINO. Sometimes he actually has some decent truths in his newsletter, when he’s not busy brown nosing other RINOs. Here is a portion of his newsletter today:

        “On the Senate floor this morning, Harry Reid said, “Republicans want to shut down the government because they think there’s nothing more important than keeping women from getting cancer screenings.” That sounds horrible — unless you know the facts. Once again Reid is trying to defend taxpayer-funding of Planned Parenthood, which claims that it performs mammograms. Watch this video to learn the truth.”

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq0kBkUZbvQ

        Those relentless liars. If this video doesn’t make your blood boil, I don’t know what will. So much for the argument from the looney left that Planned Parenthood provides “well woman” screenings… Yeah, right.

    • http://naver samurai

      OMG! What is your mental malfunction moron? Did you reavy have to drink the whole fifth of lib kool aid before comming to this site? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • jopa

    Tim: There is no first second or third place in a war.All involved lose.

    • Michael J.

      jopa,
      Wrong, the Council of Seven win every war.

    • Bert Cundle

      Servivers are the only winners…

  • http://com i41

    All of the marxist muslim moron and dumbocrat sewage suckers will vote for thie marxist/communist socialists again. They had total control for over 2 uears and couldn’t get a budget passed. Of course all dems are pretty much welfare rats that live of of everyone else that will go out and produces something in society. These are the same dumb bastards who think we can buy oil from foreign countries and the airy fairy envior crap will instantly be on line, when at best it is 60 years away from being cost effective. The only possitive given for abortion is that it keeps the reproduction of blacks and liberials at a tolarable level. As stated by the democrat broad that formed the aboration group plan. Dumbocraps beleive the pervert goat abusing muslim countries will love the USA if we give enough free money to them, just look at the last to years of dumbocrap doubling of money going to Libya by the purple lipped muslim marxist. Or the billions that went to Brazil to drill for crude that is controlled by another dictator. Wake up you pus brained libeials and stop your b–l shit of blaming Haliburton, they are paying workers out here in Wyo. over $20 an hour and after finally kicking the unions azz to the curb are hiring people all the time, and would hire more if Onumnutts and the dems would do something besides lope the lizard, a democrap past time, when not screwing the aides or being rump rangers as Onumnutts does.

    • Karolyn

      i41 – Everything you write makes a case FOR Obama!

      • Thamera

        While I don’t always agree with his choice of adjectives Karolyn…i41 is quite right…but then I’m betting you have never been to Wyoming or pretty much anywhere for that matter, have you?

    • bob wire

      Here we go with the name calling and bad counting ~ no wonder America goes in the tank when the GOP is in charge! They can’t count!

      i41 if all democrats were “welfare rats” that would only account for 40 million Americans.

      You might wish it so but it’s a big lie!

      Learn how to count buddy, and maybe figure out where your money is actually going. You probably spent it!

      We had a GOP congressman say to today, Planned Parenthood activities was 90% abortion. Not true again! the factual number? 3%, that’s whopping 87% point error.

      How can you expect people to ever believe you while broadcasting such false information about?

      Yesterday, We have a GOP county clerk that just found 7000 misplaced votes in the Wisconsin Judgeship race ! WoW! luck that she found them! Hmm?????

      And for general information, Planned Parenthood provides service to 5 million women who would otherwise not receive care.

      I know that you don’t really care and figure they are democrats as well.

      Worry yourself to a frazzle with the unborn and willing to kill mothers!

      Talk about swallowing camels and gagging on nats!

      I’m beginning to wish you were with me in Nam and the chance to learn something about holding ultimate power, the last word and compassion for life, you’d not be the bitter old fart you are today.

      • http://naver samurai

        Gee BW, that’s very unchristian of you. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Thamera

        Bob W. you are wrong, wrong, wrong, about Planned Parenthood since every county, city, community has a district health office to name just one agency that any woman can get FREE health care through. I live in an area without Planned Parenthood…their are alternatives. Of course PP is going to cry foul! They want their funding! Should be pretty obvious. 50 million Americans are now on food stamps…sounds like welfare to me…do I begrudge them? No….many family’s are hardworking and in desperate need right now but it should only be temporary. The families I work with who love, love, love Obama are generational welfare recipients. Maybe i41 doesn’t have the correct numbers for your liking but he is still quite right about welfare entitlements in this country. It is a severe drain on all of us!

        • Karolyn

          Thamera – Where I used to live in NJ, all low-income women were referred by the hospital to Planned Parenthood. I would imagine that happens in many, if not all, areas. As a matter of fact, they were having a problem with funding via our Republican County Council even though they did all the charity work for the county when it came to women. When I had no money, I was able to get my annual pap at Planned Parenthood. Here in SC, there is a program called Best Chance, which provides free mammograms and pap smears to women over the age of 50 or 55. Of course, there is no Planned Parenthood here, so the hospital picks up the slack in this low socio-economic region.

          • Thamera

            As do many other programs, agency’s and clinics….you make my point Karolyn…so how is defunding PP going to kill women and children as the dems are crying and other posters on this board are so keen on parroting the same talking points?

          • DaveH

            The Cuban Leaders had all kinds of glorious promises for their citizens 50 years ago, free food, free healthcare, …
            Where are they now?
            http://reason.org/news/show/cuba-and-the-death-of-communism

          • Kate8

            DaveH – Free services is always the carrot used to suck people into accepting communism.

            How quickly people become lured into believing that, just because they are alive, they deserve entitlements.

            It is the very meaning of selling one’s soul to the devil. And it never ends well.

          • usmadgirl

            Dave H,

            Great article. So WHY do all the fruits & nuts in this country want to take us there? Oh yes! They think THEY are going to be Fidel & his thugs & we will be their good little slaves! These people make me sick!

          • DaveH

            Me too, madgirl.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        bob wire,
        I WAS there for 18 months and I still disagree with you!!!! so quit your BS!!

  • Bert Cundle

    I’m filtered out?…

    • Bert Cundle

      Vary Christian of ya…

  • Henry Ledbetter

    The kings and rulers of the earth set themselves in array against God and His Annoionted even as the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing. To get the big picture read Psalm. 2 There was much wisdom in the Kingston Trio song and if it made sense then just think what it should mean now. I would say to all, welcome to the world of true spiritual warfare. There is God that created all things including each of us and there are many false religions and gods that promote evil and destruction. The True God will fight for Israel and each of us need to be on the right side of that coming conflict. The armies that line up against Israel will be destroyed How do I know, .

  • Henry Ledbetter

    The kings and rulers of the earth set themselves in array against God and His Annoionted even as the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing. To get the big picture read Psalm. 2 There was much wisdom in the Kingston Trio song and if it made sense then just think what it should mean now. I would say to all, welcome to the world of true spiritual warfare. There is God that created all things including each of us and there are many false religions and gods that promote evil and destruction. The True God will fight for Israel and each of us need to be on the right side of that coming conflict. The armies that line up against Israel will be destroyed How do I know. IT IS WRITTEN AND HE AND HIS WORD IS ALWAYS TRUE. Suggested reading. Ezekial 38 & 39

    • AugieD

      As some say, religion has no place in politics. I’m a firm believer of that. God’s adversary (Satan) had his hands in human governments since forever. The ‘Man ruling man’ system is doomed to fail. Even Chip has this right…”that war is peace, bad is good, wrong is right”. It’s from the Bible, (Isaiah 5:20) “Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!”

      The only thing I suggest to look into is not physical Israel, but “Spiritual Israel”. As was prophesied, the kingdom would be ripped away from (physical) Israel, and given to the peoples, of all tongues. (1 Samuel 15:28) “God has ripped away the royal rule of Israel from off you today, and he will certainly give it to a fellowman of yours who is better than you.” Also’ (Ezekiel 21:26-27)‘Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. This will not be the same. Put on high even what is low, and bring low even the high one. 27 A ruin, a ruin, a ruin I shall make it. As for this also, it will certainly become no [one’s] until he comes who has the legal right, [Jesus] and I must give [it] to him.’ Christianity (Spiritual Israel) has replaced the former physical nation of Israel, which was under the ‘Law Covenant’. Basically the Jews failed to follow the law provisions or twisted them to fit their own means. Jesus command to ‘have love among you’ would satisfy all the codes of the ‘Law’.

      To find the correct form of Christian worship, one must follow the pattern set by Christ. 1.) Remain separate from the world (Governments and their operation), 2.) Be peaceable with ‘all’ men. 3.) Do the will of God, not of men. 4.) Preach the ‘good news of the kingdom’ to all.(Matthew 24:14) “And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”

      The rest of this ‘mad world’ will be destroyed, and many will not understand what is happening. They will turn to their ‘world leaders’ asking for protection, when there will be none!

      • JKO

        While I see what you are saying here I also know that some of the Bible is subject to interpretaion and that we also need to understand the context and time it was written ( and I do believe every word is from God).
        I am not willing at this point to take a chance that it is only a spiritual Israel that will be saved. SOOOOO, I stand with Israel. I do not always agree with everything they do, but I am NOT taking a chance on this one.

      • S.C.Murf

        The lost tribes of Israel (the house of David)migrated north west and populated the UK (Ireland, England etc.) then they migrated to the USA. The house of David is not Jewish, they are the white man of the UK and America. This is one of the reasons that America and the UK stand behind Israel. It was ordained by the living God

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Its mentioned in the Bible that Michael had to deal with the “prince of Persia”. If you understand that the work “Prince” in Hebrew used in the Bible is not associated with some royal person but with Lucifer. That said it definately points that there are forces behind very powerful goverments. So I ask..who is the Prince of the United States? ;)

        • AugieD

          Bitter Libertarian; The prince of persia certainly implies Satan. But there are other princes. One (Jesus) is referred to in (Isaiah 9:6) “For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, “Prince” of Peace.”

          He is the heavenly prince that will divide and conquer the world. Satan is “the god of this system”. As such he rules over the physical governments, (all of them). It will be of interest to see the final battle. (Daniel 12:1)And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time.” This involves the King of the North and the King of the South, found in Daniel 11:1-45.

          Some in the U.S. administration, believe that the U.S., as a “Christian Nation”, will be the victors at Armageddon. They are trying to start Armageddon, as a way of rebooting the system. They believe that they will be given the right to rule all of mankind. Clearly, Satan’s ideas at work.

          There can be only one rulership, God’s. No room for any other. All others a doomed to fail and be destroyed. To answer your question of “who the prince of the U.S. is”, that would be Satan.

  • Kathleen B

    To respond to Chip’s article, “Obama’s Latest Illegal War”, I agree whole heartedly. This is the very same thing I have been barking about since this whole mess started – TO THE LETTER. But what can we do at this point in time but follow through – with both barrels blaring? We’ve already put our foot in our mouth. And the last time we spanked Libya, President Reagan dropped an egg on his head and shut him up for a good many years. We scared him so badly that he got rid of his neuclear program entirely. Or did he? Even so he can easily afford to reestablish it. And then who will he take aim at first? Yup – US! WHY oh WHY are we not doing something about this man? Easily answered. It’s called Joe Biden – that arrogant evil VP for whom I would have thrown myself under a moving train before I would have voted for him. Not even for Dog Catcher! Oh what a mess we have. I’m tempted some days to crawl into a hole and pull it in after me – if that were possible. Instead I’ll be here – continuing to correct, complain and rant with the rest of you – while I build my stockpiles in my own defense. I’ll be Blessed if the men in black suits don’t show up at my door over the emails I’ve been sending to the White House. OK, I’ll shut up now. Keep ‘em coming Chip.

    • usmadgirl

      Kathleen B,

      I agree with most everything you said, but I NEVER write to the White House for the exact reason you said you fear.

      For the first time in my life, I FEAR my government. I feel like we’re already living in a Socialist or Communist country. I know things haven’t been perfect for 100 years…thanks to the progressives, that I innocently knew nothing about until a few years ago. I thought people were either Dumbcraps or Republicans. I didn’t know we “allowed” Communists or Socialists in our country, let alone in our Congress & the White House. I wasn’t an idiot! I was just trusting & rarely ever had time to watch the news. Like I told Kate8 last night, I’ve had a rude awakening!

      Unlike some people, I listened to what O’Dumbo was REALLY saying about “fundamentally transforming the United States of America” & “sharing the wealth” & “under his plan, energy bills would necessarily skyrocket”. So why would anybody vote for THAT? I voted for McCain because he was the lesser of two “weasels”. I get so annoyed when people say that we’re better off electing O’Dumbo because “it woke us up” & that we would’ve died a slower death with McCain than with O’Dumbo, BUT, even with McCain being a RINO, we’d be NOWHERE close to the insane destruction that we’re in now. McCain was at least an American patriot who served his country despite some of his idiotic ideas. None of us are perfect or agree on everything. O’Dumbo has served NOTHING except himself & the thugs that got him elected.

      We don’t know ANYTHING about the man leading our country. His life, from his birth to his election as Senator, is almost nonexistent except for proof of the radicals he’s been associated with all his life, being a stupid “community organizer” & being in bed with Unions, namely SEIU. We don’t know if he’s a legal citizen or even if he attended college. There’s certainly no proof. We’ve seen him at a chalk board teaching “Saul Alinsky” tactics, but you don’t have to be a “college professor” to speak at colleges. For all we know, he’s just some thug off the street that George Soros decided to fund!

      I don’t want Donald Trump for president. He’s just another greedy, power hungry narcissist who can’t even make up his mind whether he’s Dumbocrat or Republican, pro choice or pro life & he was dumb enough to vote for O’Dumbo. BUT, I PRAY that he finds that O’Dumbo isn’t a legal citizen & everything this Communist has done to our country will be null & void & that O’Dumbo (or Soros) doesn’t pay Trump off to continue to hide his records! This is my prayer & what everyone should be praying for now!

  • http://comcast.net PRESTON W.ATHEY

    Ideas,Ideas,and more Ideas—Everybody is talking yet I see no Action.As long as we can go to work,drive our cars,keep our childern happy with T.V. and Computer games,have food and water–then why should we interfere with the Goverment.
    The New World Order will change that,they will made you feel like its the greatest World goverment ever.Lies,lies and lies–Just like the last 2 Presidents–keep on beleiving in your party as it destroys America.
    I’ve been thinking about Donald Trump? Watching him! He might have the right stuff to bring this country back.He loves America and Dislikes the way foreign counties think about us.Might be worth listening 2.

    • JKO

      Nicely put. We do need to wake up in America. As stated above, we are cleaning the rifles and storing the food.

    • JKO

      And I am intrigued by Trump as well. Saw a bumper sticker in Phoenix 2 weeks ago that supports Trump.

  • Howard R Gray

    Yet again another silly war with a line in the sand we are not allowed to cross. Korea, Viet Nam, the Gulf war, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Libya, every one of these conflicts has a line over which we must never go, hence the outcome is certain, the war is largely lost as soon as it has begun.

    There is no likelihood of toppling the Gad daft dictator of that benighted nation. So why are we there at all? There should be a team of seals or SAS charged with either kidnapping or eliminating dictators in a surgical dictatorectomy. More to the point there is a need to put a stop to what appears to be a rule that leaders are exempt from punishment, irrespective of how many they may torture or murder, there is always a free pass. Remember Pol Pot (real name Saloth Sar) the vicious communist dictator who trained at the École Française d’Électronique et d’Informatique (EFE) in Paris and came home to murder 20% of the population of Cambodia only to die in his bed under house arrest. Yes house arrest! At least this bastard didn’t study at the Sorbonne that would have been a little more chic than the EFE.

    Wars to get rid of these despots are specious; removing these clowns should be simple, there really are better ways available. Why isn’t the miscreant dictator just removed rather than put thousands at risk of death or injury in expensive military campaigns? Dictators who have passed their sell by date should be invited to stand down or be assured they will be subjected to a lead and cordite de-selection on a personal basis at some time in the near future courtesy of special forces.

    • Vigilant

      Selective assassination was outlawed in the 1970s, thanks to the Democrat Senator Frank Church.

  • oldgringo

    The biggest lie to date is when Hillary Clinton stated that this war is all about “humanitarian protection” for civilians. So…..which civilians on which side are we going to protect. Gadafy has his own supporters (civilians) who will take up arms against the rebel (civilians) should they dare enter Tripoli. So do we protect the civilians who are the rebels and kill the civilians who are loyal to Gadafy? Civilians are civilians no matter whose side they are on. This is a civil War created by the Global Imperialist and we have no business taking sides in their War. The Global Imperialist used us in Iraq with lies about WMD and in Afganistan about the Opium trade and now in Libya with Humanitarian Protectionism for civilians. “When will they ever learn…..Peter, Paul and Mary”!

    • Vigilant

      The Afghan adventure had nothing to do with the opium trade.

  • BLACK SABBATH

    WAR PIGS

  • Don

    Preston, You could be right, at least he loves the USA !!

  • Tom Anderson

    So this incursion into Libya is Obama’s fault? Obama is NOT paying for this adventure out of his own pocket. The Congress isn’t paying for it out of their own pockets and they are not spilling THEIR blood there – sure both Obama and the Congress are worthless SOBs – so what! They have always been – Obama, Bush, Cheney – ALL the same.

    However, WHO is actually carrying out illegal (unconstitutional) attacks on a foreign nation – the UNITED STATES MILITARY – they are GUILTY of carrying out illegal and unconstitutional orders. Every military man participating in this international crime of aggression should be tried in US Criminal Courts – why do ALL of you people ignore the individuals (pilots, CIA, etc) who are actually carrying out the ACTUAL CRIMES?

    It is a CRIME to attack a nation without a Declaration of War by Congress – ALL US military men participating in this crime should be arrested and tried and punished!!! I believe in accountability!!! Hold those criminals responsible for their war crimes!

    Our GREAT MILITARY GENERAL/PRESIDENTS warned the US Public in their MOST IMPORTANT DECLARATIONS against our OWN MILITARY!!!

    See Gen. Washington’s presidential farewell address
    and
    Gen. Ike’s presidential farewell address.

    They did NOT warn about some by liberal takeover of the government – they warned us against our OWN US MILITARY. It is time to hold these military criminals responsible for their crimes.

    Oh, by the way, neither Ike nor Washington were democrats (well, actually, Ike WAS a democrat but ran as GOP in order to save the two party system)

    • Vigilant

      How convenient of you to “forget” that Obama is the Commander-in-Chief.

      • Tom Anderson

        Vigilant,

        I forget NOTHING! I would put Obama in the dock (since he is, by definition, MILITARY) with all of the rest of the generals, majors, corporals, privates, etc who are complicit in these crimes.

        Why do you think that I would give Obama a pass? – but HE is not doing the ACTUALLY killing in Libya – he is only giving the orders. I think that extra special punishment should be meted out to the US pilots and CIA who are actually spilling blood and destroying US Military supplies and treasure without proper congressional authorization.

        What kind of question is yours?

        Do you want to ENCOURAGE our US Military to carrying out illegal and unconstitutional orders? Or do you want to hold them accountable for their crimes?

        • Vigilant

          Obama is the Commander-in-Chief and is responsible for matters of Constitutionality. The War Powers Act gives him the latitude to go to Congress within 60 days, that’s the law. If you blame Obama, then you blame every President since Roosevelt and every serviceman who fought in those wars.

          Your condemnation of our servicepeople is as dastardly and insensitive as the lefties who called our military men “baby-killers.” You and Hanoi Jane have a lot in common

        • http://naver samurai

          Until the orders are proven illegal, “I was just following orders” is a sound defense. I also think that your must be an ostrich. Your head must be buried in the sand very deeply. Don’t you think that if a person in the military is given an order and it turns out to be illegal, don’t you think that soldier, marine, sailor, pilot, etc., would say it was and not obey it? When I was serving, if I thought or knew an order to be illegal, I could say “Beg your pardon, sir. That order is illegal.” and have nothing happen to me, unless I obeyed it. I guess having no facts at hand doesn’t stop someone from having a good rant. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            samurai,
            I think his head is buried, alright, but not in SAND!!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Very funny and very true! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Tom Anderson

            Samurai,

            I am thrilled that you get so much laughter and entertainment from these posts.

            I assume you laughed equally heartily when you saw the photos of our soldiers smiling with the innocent Afghan “kills of the day”. These are our GREAT heros you refer to – they shot and grenaded UNARMED Afghan civilians – SUCH bravery and courage! And they would have enjoyed it more if they weren’t so high on pot and opium.

            And I would have joined you in laughing at those poor innocent targets and their wives and children in Afghan if it just didn’t cost me my tax dollars. So, please, next time, when you want a war, do it on your won nickle.

            And DAMN! if a few of those soldiers aren’t being court martialed! All they did was what they had been trained for – mayhem and murder! But NOT to worry. Murder of unarmed civilians only gets you a few years of “easy time” in the military prisons.

            That old Fuddy-Duddy, Gen. Eisenhauer used to have those soldiers face a firing squad manned by their own men – but Ike is soooo YESTERDAY!!!

            Likewise, our soldiers in Afghan who recently killed those 9 boys who were gathering wood! GREAT TARGET PRACTICE!! I am sure that those soldiers will all get promoted and medals for bravery and courage and “going beyond the call of duty”. Yeah, I get as much laughter out of that as you do – those damn little kids deserved it. Nice to know I can share a joke or two with a fellow patriot who loves GOD and COUNTRY.

          • http://naver samurai

            Tom, get off of the lib rants and cite your source. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • JKO

      Seriously you need to get over yourself. The military CAN now refuse an order if it can be shown to be unlawful and immoral, but they have to be able to show that in court. When the Prez – commander in chief – gives an order you follow it. I’m not sure how many of our troops even have the time to find out what is and is not legal. BTW, that is not their job, so get off the backs of our military personel. The person held accountable is the person who gives the order.

      The refusal to carry out an order came from Vietnam when soldiers were told to kill civilians and were then court martialed for doing so (Lt. Calley is a case in point).

      • Tom Anderson

        Great Comment, JKO!

        And you, of course, are completely right. ANY ORDER that the President issues MUST be carried out by the military!

        Load up Jews in cattle cars and send them to camps! YES – our military MUST do it because the president orders it.

        In other words, your comments show that you believe in the “Devine Right of Kings”. ANYTHING the KING (Obama) orders, by God’s might, MUST be correct and obeyed.

        Thank you for making this issue so VERY clear. You believe our military should OBEY the president. I believe our military should obey the U.S. Constitution.

        Heaven help us with people like you. And people wonder where our morals and affection for adherence to the U.S. Constitution has gone!

        I believe strict adherence to the U.S. Constitution. There is NOTHING in the U.S. Constitution which states that the military can commit any type of crime as long as the President orders it. On the contrary, our Founding Fathers greatest fear was that our military would be used as a criminal tool against civilians. George Washington and Ike had guys like YOU in mind when they gave their farewell speeches.

        Recall that Ike had soldiers face the firing squad for similar crimes in WW2. Ike believed in accountability as did Washington.

        It seems that you cannot handle “conservatism” when the shoe is on the other foot.

        The MAIN reason that the Founding Fathers were concerned with the 2nd amendment was NOT for self-protection or hunting. It was to PROTECT themselves against the US MILITARY!!! A Military which obeys ANY order the President gives it.

        • Bitter Libertarian

          I served for 20 years and I can assure you that the “trigger pullers” are not taught ANYTHING about the US Constitution, NOR exactly what constitutes an Unlawful order.

          FYI: The Constitution specifically requires that the following steps be followed:
          1-Congress Declare war
          2-Congress call into service the POTUS as CIC.

          You cannot Disregard #1 and Jump to #2 because there is NO PROVISION for this. So that said….since Congress didnt DECLARE WAR (the wording is very specific) Obama, Bush and EVERY president who has sent troops into combat did so Illegally.

          Read-Study-Learn the Constitution. Dont add-subtract-interpret: JUST READ IT AS ITS WRITTEN.

          • Carlucci

            Bitter Libertarian and other current and ex-military on this blog:

            I’m going to go out on a limb here, and I want to ask you all questions that have always bothered me because I’ve never served in the armed forces. Once someone voluntarily joins the military, do they become the “property” or “chattel” of the US government and are subject to all orders and commands (right or wrong) by the commander in chief? Once someone voluntarily joins the military they are in essence agreeing to do their job exactly as they are trained and told to do, no matter what? Are they trained to become zombie like “killing machines”, and it does not matter what their own personal thoughts and opinions are, because they absolutely must follow orders or face the consequences? I mean, where and how do they draw the line?

          • Bitter Libertarian

            Speaking from First hand experience, having been a tad bit ‘defiant’ in my younger years towards some of the Leadership I encountered (lol) I will tell you that I signed a contract, and in that contract I agreed to follow the orders of “those appointed over me” and to the UCMJ which is seperate set of Rules to live and be prosecuted by. In doing this you surrender many of your rights protected under the US Constitution. Strange, but thats the way it works.
            So in one way we were trained to follow orders without question or exception, unless it was a suicide order.

            I’m sure others will comment, and have other views & facts to offer.

          • Tom Anderson

            Carlucci & Bitter,

            My understanding is that EVERY military man takes an OATH to uphold and defend the constitution – and, I think that even includes the POTUS.

            Clearly, many POTUS’s and our military have taken actions which are in direct violation of the letter and intent of the U.S. Constitution – this adventure by Obama is simply the latest.

            My point is that we should hold EVERY CRIMINAL RESPONSIBLE and ACCOUNTABLE for their crimes – Whether or NOT those crimes were under ORDERS of the POTUS or the military superiors.

            Washington and Ike BOTH felt that the GREATEST threat to our Republican Liberty was our own US MILITARY. And here we read of people who write in saying that US servicemen can KILL based simply because the POTUS ordered them too!!! Sounds like “Divine Right of Kings” is alive and well despite the sacrifices of our Founding Fathers.

            Thank GOD for the very few “oath keepers” in the military who have sworn on their honor that they will NOT use their military power against U.S. Civilians (WACO notwithstanding – WACO is ONLY the beginning and notice NOT a peep of protest from the GOP – all americans should be shaking in their boots!). Or were Ike and Washington just simply liberal whimps who were scared of guns and war???

            Arrest and throw into the DOCK EVERY U.S. Military man (including POTUS) for violation of their solemn oath. Without a Congressional Declaration of War against Libya, what our U.S. Military is doing in Libya is simply wholescale MURDER! Bring those murderes to trial!

            Why criticize Obama who is many levels of authority removed from the actual murders? Yes, of course, you cannot arrest or try him in a simple criminal court – but you CAN try ALL subsequent officers who are participating in this unconstitutional wholescale murder.

          • Vigilant

            Anderson, what a ridiculous diatribe. By your reckoning, no one but Constitutional scholars would be allowed in the military.

            “Over the top” doesn’t even begin to describe your silly notions.

            BTW, I think you’re in a minority of ONE.

          • http://naver samurai

            If I remember right, he posted he wasn’t good enough to serve. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • http://com i41

    Preston, Donald Trump would be able to speak in plain language to the world slubs who keep screwing the USA and not be getting our free money to plan against us another mess. Since Onumhnjutts went around trashing America and appoligizing for USA saving their sorry rears. We need to tell the world and the UN to go f–k off and die, instead of playing patty cake and love talking to them. Plus it will not take Trump to get oil production up and going as soon as he gets into office. He has had to contend with the mountain of bs from all the worthless agencies that cost time and money as well as impede business.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    I am all for helping someone who asks, and then following the Constitutional protocal to help within Constitutional Limits. Since there really isnt ANY Guidance in the Constitution I would suggest that there be some!

    Since its universally agreed that we cannot isolate ourself, and no body minds to help IF its done within reason then the solution lies in a Foreign Intervention Policy Amendment. I dont suggest a Bill because its too easy to deviate.

    Now..what Great Politician will have the stones to push for this?

    • bob wire

      and this is exactly why the C&C presented the Libyan question to the US Senate on March 1st 2011 seeking consensus on the UN resolution adopting a “No Fly Zone” over Libya. The resulting Senate vote was one of approval of the UN resolution, in parcel and sum.

      That this occurred before the tea Party smarty pants had the opportunity to make political hay of it is misfortune but being slow coming out of the hole hasn’t stopped them today. So we hear whine and threaten from the far right and their butt boys.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Thats Nice that he took it to the Senate, but its Congress who has the Authoritry spelled out, NOT the Senate, and NOT the POTUS.

        • bob wire

          Yes, it was unfortunate that time didn’t allow it. Why bother sending out firetrucks after the building has burnt to the ground?

          • Thamera

            Really Bob W. Tell that to the folks of the Sudan…just to name one example of atrocious human rights violations that we don’t do anything about!

  • Adrian Malinowski

    Who are the real human rights violators, The US government and no one does anything, The UN its a lie

  • American Citizen

    We should only intervene in other countries when they ask us to do so. It’s time to bring our troops home from those countries we’ve be in for over 50 or 60 years and let them fend for themselves. We can’t afford to be the world’s policeman. Maybe then the UN would have to do its job. It’s time we stop propping up the governments in other countries.

  • kevinl

    The Neocons want us to invade and uproot Arab regimes who sympathize with the Palestinians — so the traitors’ Israel can continue to occupy and oppress the Palestinians! Surely, they’ve been using our blood and money to do so, and they want some more. I think the many Jews here are traitorous and criminal in many many ways.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Kevinl,
      The government of isriael has already said they do not want the US to fight its wars for it, no troops or planes wanted. What they want is an ally that defends its right to defend its sovereignty! As stated by their leader himself!!

  • DaveH
    • bob wire

      Hmm? I hope and trust that this is perused as far as it can be taken. Any question of uncertainty is unacceptable.

  • barbm

    actually, the correct saying is, i could chew nails and spit heads (as in a nail head). nails and bullets have little in common. :)

    • http://?? Joe H.

      barbm,
      My mother used to say mad enough to chew nails and spit carpet tacks!!

  • chuckb

    dave h, what dirty tricks are you referring to? the dirty tricks that may incur in investigating nicklaus?.

    • DaveH

      I’m talking about 7582 votes that weren’t counted that came from a town where the voters were heavily in favor of Prosser. And the fact that the same office came under scrutiny less than a year ago.

      • http://deleted Claire

        DaveH–You are correct.

        • Thamera

          Correct about what? I read the same article…you can bet that there is much more to the story then what is stated in one article. Don’t you think it would be prudent to “wait and see” what the rest of the story is before passing judgement?

          • DaveH

            I was close (unfortunately) to two chronic liars for much of my life, so I had to learn to read between the lines. Sometimes I’m wrong, but most of the time I’m right. There is so much dishonesty these days that you have to carefully analyze the situation and see if it makes sense.
            It seems just a little fishy that the same office that has come under scrutiny less than a year ago would be so lax as to misplace the spread sheet with thousands of votes on it.
            We could easily end the uncertainty right now with today’s technology . We could make the voting information transparent so that anybody could check their recorded vote to see that it was counted correctly while still maintaining ballot secrecy. And anybody with the proper software could count the votes to double check them. And anybody could check the database to make sure dead people and others not qualified had not voted, and that nobody had voted twice. But, we the citizens are going to have to demand that. They (the leaders) aren’t going to do it willingly.

          • libertytrain

            DaveH – many articles at the Journal Sentinel online. Here’s one that makes sense to me as well – having been from the area. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/119442229.html

  • EDDO

    Great article CHIP! I agree with Barb and with Democrat Exorcist and several other entries above, but
    Norm, you are so far out in left field that only a “foul ball” hit out of the stadium would be in your area.

  • Tom Anderson

    Chip,

    Why do you criticize Obama. He is simply issuing an illegal and unconstitutional ORDER – that is NOT much of a crime and he cannot be prosecuted for ANYTHING in a criminal court – Only Congress can go after him.

    Obama is NOT launching missiles and pulling the trigger on guns in Libya. OUR US Military is doing the murdering over there. Why do you ignore THAT? And NOT upholding your military solemn oath to uphold and protect the U.S. Constitution is NOT a serious military crime. But MURDER is a serious crime!!

    And without a Congressional Declaration of War against Libya, what our U.S. military is doing in Libya is murder and an egregious international WAR CRIME!!! Doesn’t matter what the UN says or what NATO says. There is NOTHING in our U.S. Constitution which even mentions the UN or NATO!

    Why attack Obama who has NOT killed a single Libyan, whereas there are a plethora of U.S. Military officers who are violating their oath to the Constitution and committing wholescale MURDER!!! Be FAIR in your analysis. Yes! Condemn Obama, but hold that actual killers in the proper light. Murder is immoral and illegal – and I would argue that murder is even MORE serious when it is committed by our uniformed men (or CIA)

    Can you not see that Washington’s and Ike’s warning is happening right here? Everyone is giving the U.S. Military ABSOLUTION for their murders. A CRIME is a CRIME whether ordered by the POTUS or not.

    How long will it take this military which disregards the Constitution to turn their weapons onto the U.S. public ( a la WACO )??? Those were Ike’s and Washington’s GREATEST worry – our OWN military! They were Prophets – their prophecy is coming to pass before our eyes.

    • JeffH

      TA, Obama is the “commander in chief” and gives the orders! Obama is responsible for every action of our military. In essence, Obama pulls the trigger on every US weapon and pushes the launch buttons for every missle. Congress has not declared war on Lybia and our troops are not murderers contrary to your belief. Obama went to the UN because he is a globalist that supports and is manipulated for the cause…a “One World Government”.

      • Tom Anderson

        Are you a Catholic Priest with power to grant ABSOLUTION of the sin of murder?

        Do you want to redefine the WORD “MURDER”? The killing of one man of another human being without a legally declared WAR is called MURDER. Sorry to bring to this your attention.

        Our military (and CIA) in Libya is VIOLATING their oath of enlistment (to the U.S. Constitution) and committing MURDER. It is as simple as that. But I certainly appreciate your great sense of hypocrisy. Don’t let a few definitions and facts divert you from you keen sense of hypocrisy.

        You make a great advocate and salesperson for the Military Industrial Complex. Are you on their payroll? Were you in those tanks that attacked our civilians in WACO? Did you accidentally kill the baby-in-arms at Ruby Ridge and get the promotion?

        Of course, those U.S. military murderers in Libya are simply “following orders” a PERFECT excuse for ANY crime! It just didn’t work out very well for the NAZIs at Nuremberg.

        • Jeep

          You are a twisted individual Tom. Not that JeffH can’t defend himself, but are you a lawyer? Are you versed in UCMJ or even Constitutional Law? Perhaps you are an expert in international tribunals and the Nuremberg Trials?

          Let’s just start with authority, shall we? Congress has the authority to declare war. The president can order troops into action without congressional authorization in the event of “a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.” And, let’s just say that somehow the attack on Libya was justified, either way it was by order of the prez that the first missiles were fired. Or, maybe you have some inside knowledge that he did not order the attack. Either way the prez is responsible for any action taken. After all, he likes to use the term “commander in chief”. So, let him be CiC.

          I take it from your comments that you consider any military deaths as murder. Well, you are entitled to that opinion, but on judgement day how will you explain that you benefitted from those military murderers and slept soundly each night in your comfy bed?

          • Tom Anderson

            Yes, Jeep, I am twisted!

            And with your logic, all of the NAZI henchmen would have walked free – after all ONLY the CIC is responsible!

            NO!!! Crimes are committed by individuals!

            The little daughter in Libya who has lost her father or mother to an american made bullet (missle, etc) FIRED by a U.S. soldier views that as SIMPLY MURDER. And, without a proper Declaration of War by the US Congress, this adventure in Libya is unauthorized and killings committed by our troops there is DEFINED as murder.

            If there were a proper Declaration of War then all of my arguments would dissappear – and our soldiers could do what they do best – KILL with proper authority – otherwise their killings are serious crimes.

            And without proper legal authority, the U.S. Military executing WAR on a sovreign nation is a crime. And those individual US Soldiers who participate in that crime are INDIVIDUALLY guilty of murder!

            But let’s make this clear – I BELIEVE in accountability! And I believe that CRIMES should be punished – especially murder. And MORE SO if they are committed by our uniformed military (or CIA). Ike had decades of US Soldiers shot by firing squads for murder and rape. Our military should be held to the same standard and NOT given ABSOLUTION for their egregious crimes – and THAT includes Obama and Bush!!!

            You want to apply legalistic gingoism to these murders in Libya? Be my guest! I love hypocrisy!

            And I always appreciate the attempts at excusing CRIME by apologists for the Military Industrial Complex. Are YOU on their payroll?

          • DaveH

            Long story short, we need to get our Government back to Constitutional compliance, and quit escapading around the world.

          • Jeep

            Let’s face it…we will never agree to your logic. Yes, I have been a serving member of our Armed Forces for almost 30 yrs. I have campaign ribbons from Grenada, Panama, Gulf One, Iraq and Afghanistan. Without remorse I have pulled the trigger in each of those conflicts to protect the freedoms this great nation of ours offers to all. And, yet, the action in Lybia feels much different. If the plan is to liberate the Lybian people, then fine. But, what is the goal? I guess it depends on the day of the week.

            However, on the other subject of murder or justified self-defense, I would contend that you are a coward. And, that you have been softened by the life that our country has provided you. Most liberal minded, dope smoking, crackheads are the same. If you have ever had to fight (like really do or die) for your freedom or your life or to protect someone else, I think you would at least understand my point. But, as you have most assuredly not ever had to make a life or death decision, we have no common ground or frame of reference to continue any reasonable debate. Now, go back to your cozy couch, turn on CNN and be the arm chair quarterback you are so good at being. And, leave the manly art of defending our country to the professionals.

        • JeffH

          Tom, are you a immoral extremist? Are you the judge, jury and executioner? Are you GOD?

          “War is hell, kill them all and let God sort them out”

          • DaveH

            Sorry, Jeff, but I agree with Tom. There is only one excuse to take the life of another human and that is self-defense. People in Government are bound by the same moral rules that the citizens are. We have erred greatly in giving Government a pass to ignore those rules.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, no offense taken and I do agree that “We have erred greatly in giving Government a pass to ignore those rules” but I refuse to think of, or compare, our enlisted men to “murderers”. As a rule, they’re only following orders and the initial order is given by the Commander in Chief. Politics and war have always been a bad mix.

          • DaveH

            I know that Jeff, and I don’t fault the soldiers much as they are under “orders”, but ideally I would like to see a military that refuses to disobey the Constitution.
            Isn’t it just a little scary to you that they will follow orders so blindly? I mean what orders might they follow next? Take out us domestic terrorists who dare to question authority?

        • http://naver samurai

          Tom, get off of the kool aid and go back down to your mother’s basement and have her lock the door from the outside. Why don’t you come up with some sources to back up these moronic rants of yours. You are a disgrace to this country. Just because you weren’t good enough to serve doesn’t mean that you need to attack the military or anyone who was honorable enough to wear the uniform. Get off of the nonsense, arse! The POTUS is also the CIC of the armed forces according to the Constitution, how much more proof do you need them our own Constitution? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Tom Anderson

            Go read Operation Norwoods -

            Our ENTIRE military Joint Chiefs of Staff encouraged the murder of innocent and defenseless US Civilians. YOU can ignore the proposed murder of U.S. Civilians by our military – I tend to think that that is not very nice.

            I am NOT a minority of ONE. General Washington and Ike are on MY side. Their last warnings to their country was to BEWARE of the U.S. Military!!! Go soak you head!

            And you tell me! Who knows and knew MORE about the U.S. Military than Gen. Washington and Ike?

            You can bang the drum and toot the horn for the U.S. Military but they are simply poorly paid Hessian whores who will turn on us civilians whenever Obama or Bush tells them to. Just look at WACO! And YOU will deserve it because you refuse to hold them ACCOUNTABLE for their unconstitutional and illegal acts. They are “just following orders”.

            The Marines in Afghan were hunting and murdering Aghans for sport. We are NEXT on their list! Especially Ron Paul supporters!

          • http://deleted Claire

            I will never call our troops murderers. They do not deserve this name-calling. They were and are doing exactly what our government told them to do. Would you rather see them all desert? Then you would bitch about that. Granted, I do not approve of these wars and if I were the Congress/POTUS, I would never have sent our troops to Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya. But, if someone attacked America you can dang well bet all hell would break loose. I would go after them tooth and toenail. They would not escape my wrath. If I were a soldier and my government sent me to war, it would be a matter of survival and I WOULD take care of myself. It would be the survival of the fittest and I would make dang sure I would come out on top. How many of those “civilians” are walking bombs? How many of these people sacrifice their women and children by planting bombs on them and sending them out to kill and maim our soldiers? Do you want our soldiers to lay down their weapons and be killed? When it comes down to the nitty gritty of war, I would no doubt do what I had to do, because I would be protecting America, including the fact that I WANT to live.
            And how do you know our Marines killed civilians for sport? I have never heard this. Cite your sources. I want to know.

          • Tom Anderson

            ClaAT JOINT BASE LEWIS-MCCHORD, WASH. The U.S. soldiers hatched a plan as simple as it was savage: to randomly target and kill an Afghan civilian, and to get away with it. For weeks, according to Army charging documents, rogue members of a platoon from the 5th Stryker Combat Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division, floated the idea. Then, one day last winter, a solitary Afghan man approached them in the village of La Mohammed Kalay. The “kill team” activated the plan.

            One soldier created a ruse that they were under attack, tossing a fragmentary grenade on the ground. Then others opened fire. According to charging documents, the unprovoked, fatal attack on Jan. 15 was the start of a months-long shooting spree against Afghan civilians that resulted in some of the grisliest allegations against American soldiers since the U.S. invasion in 2001. Members of the platoon have been charged with dismembering and photographing corpses, as well as hoarding a skull and other human bones.

            Claire,

            Where have YOU been this past decade? You don’t know about our soldiers in Afghan killing Afghan civilians for sport?? You know it has to be pretty bad when the military justice system CANNOT HIDE IT.

            You consider the CIC guilty but refuse to hold those who actually do the killing responsible and accountable?? EXACTLY like NAZIs – “I was ONLY following ORDERS” That excuse does NOT work anymore.

            I believe in accountability and MURDER should be punished! – especially STATE SPONSORED MURDER – in Libya. Try and Hang Obama and every other lower ranking U.S. military man who is reponsible for these unconstitutional and illegal murders in Libya. Every GENERAL, Sargent, Corporal, ANYONE responsible for this mayhem and murder should face the BAR OF JUSTICE. OBEY the Constitution! Those soldiers took a solemn OATH and they are violating it shamelessly.

          • Thamera

            The key word being “rogue”. Are you not able to make the distinction between “rogue” ie “criminal” and the rest of the duty-bound, law-abiding platoon that did not participate in these alleged actions? You are trying to paint the entire military with a very broad brush Mr. Anderson and it isn’t working. Too many of us have highly moral, intelligent, honorable young men that we know PERSONALLY serving in the armed forces to believe your crap. That atrocities and crimes happen in war is an unfortunate given, but to try and paint the entire military as murdering thugs and assassins is shameful. I could say the same thing about my local police force. There are cops that are “dirty” and a shame to the badge they wear, but for the most part police offers in general are decent and honorable and my brother is one of them! The military is no different!

          • Tom Anderson

            Thamera,

            Is your middle name Polly-Anna? Did you take my suggestion and read up a bit on history? Perhaps you should pop some tranquilizers first because REAL HISTORY is going to shock you.

            The ENTIRE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF and THE CHAIRMAN approved Operation Northwoods that called for the MURDER of innocent american citizens. This was not one or two “rogue” elements – it was the WHOLE FRIGGIN U.S. MILITARY LEADERSHIP. Read your history. JFK FIRED LEMNITZER’s ass over that and look what happened to JFK a few months later. Do you get the idea now?? You don’t piss off the ENTIRE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF AND GET AWAY with it.

            Of course, there are many honorable and intelligent individuals in the military STILL. However, how come NONE of them have objected to this criminal (per Chip Wood) assault on Libya without a Declaration of War???? Why haven’t they refused the illegal order?? Why have they been complicit in this atrocity?? Yes, PLEASE PLEASE tell me it is because they are “just following orders” – a perfect justification for murder.

            If they obey orders and kill innocent Libyans who have NEVER attacked us and pose NO threat to us, that will train and encourage our military to attack and kill us when their commanders tell them that “gun Owners” or “Ron Paul” supporters or “you name it” is a terrorist and threat to our country.

            They did it in WACO and they are being trained to do it again.

            And I am NOT a minority of ONE. Read Geo Washington’s farewell address to the nation. Our OWN military is our GRAVEST threat!

            Gen. Eisenhower said that SAME thing. BEWARE!!! BEWARE!!! … the Military

            I’ve got TWO pretty influential leaders on my side.

            Why do you think that NORAD (with its thousands of planes) didn’t have even ONE of those jets in the air to protect us during 9/11? Polly-Anna doesn’t know and Polly-Anna doesn’t care.

            Why did our Fed Res Bank pay $Billions to Kaddafy’s bank – (per Ron Paul) and now we are dropping bombs on Libyans?

            Polly-Anna couldn’t be happier.

            You honor and admire military heros? Try General Smedley Butler on for size. DO you know about him? He was awarded TWO Congressional Medals of Honor – - you don’t know about him?

            Well, Polly-Anna, Gen Smedley Butler is in my court also. Who is in your court other than some patriotic but naive military men (and an honorable and trustworthy police officer – my Mom was a Sheriff’s Deputy also) who are being trained and paid to do WHATEVER their commanders order them to do?

            And go read up about those soldiers in Afghan if you can handle it. Their killing spree went on for MONTHS – one soldier phoned his parents about it and the parents raised hell but the army didn’t care! And TENS of soldiers knew it was going on and did NOTHING. And, also, they were almost ALL potheads and opium abusers. And the MILITARY KNEW IT!!! I am not making this stuff up – go read it for yourself. The military is just trying their best to keep a lid on it.

            Also, why do you think that the military suicide rate has gone UP and UP and UP every single year??? Use your head. Do you think it is because our brave men cannot handle the stress??? You are naive! Our men in WW2 saw more stress in one day than these guys see in a year. They are KILLING THEMSELVES because they are CONFLICTED. They thought they would be protecting the USA and find that they are working AGAINST the interest of the USA – so they go and blow their brains out. I feel sorry for them. And I agree, it is a tough decision to OBEY the CONSTITUTION or to DISOBEY your commander. But THAT still does NOT absolve them of their complicity in murder.

          • Jeep

            Tom, just as you would paint the entire military as murderers because some soldiers went “rogue”, then it only only follows that you MUST be a mass murder by association. In the broader context, you pay for those “murders” and are therefore guilty by association. In fact, since you finance all that mayhem, that makes you one very bad person. I suppose you could refuse to pay taxes that support the military, but alas, I am sure you blindly are just following orders…I guess you could use that defense at your trial.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Tom Anderson,
      Then I guess you think Hitler was innocent of any wrong doing??? He didn’t do the murdering, just ordered it!!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        WELL??? GONNA ANSWER???

        • Tom Anderson

          Of course I will answer. I believe in accountability – from the TOP to the BOTTOM. And you bet. I would have had Hitler and his whole gang swinging from the gallows, but I would NOT stop there like we did during WW2. I would hang the workers the CCs too.

          As Chip Wood points out, without a Constitutional Declaration of War by the U. S. Congress, this adventure in Libya is SIMPLE MURDER!!

          My answer – ANYONE (and I mean ANYONE and EVERYONE) complicit in these murders should be tried and hanged til dead – and THAT includes Obama and his Generals, Sargeants and the private who pulls the trigger on some poor Libyan. Those US bullets are paid with our tax dollars.

          “I was only following orders” is the NAZI excuse. It is interesting that the readers here REPEAT that phrase as an excuse and justification for the murders our OWN military is committing in Libya.

          Go and read Pres. Geo. Washington’s presidential farewell address. He said it THEN and it still is TRUE that the GREATEST threat to our Republican Liberty is our OWN U.S. Military.

          Who do you think were in those tanks in WACO who killed women and children CIVILIANS? The precedent has already been set. Those soldiers OBEYED ORDERS and killed kids and women and they will OBEY ORDERS again unless we civilians hold them accountable for their crimes. ORDERS is no excuse for CRIME – especially murder!

          Washington’s and Ike’s warnings are only ignored by imbeciles!!!

          The POTUS will order the U.S. Military to round up Ron Paul 2nd amendment (Clingers) supporters and our military will (like Libya) FOLLOW ORDERS. Don’t you know that they are already being trained for THAT?

          • Jeep

            Thanks Tom for proving my point, “Those US bullets are paid with our tax dollars.” So, have you hired a defense attorney yet? After all, as the financier of this illegal and murderous action, you may be the guiltiest of all.

          • Tom Anderson

            Jeep,

            Interesting response! And, of course, you are correct! I AM complicit in this atrocity in Libya since I pay taxes which supports this illegal action. But, as you read, you can see that I am fighting against it the best that I can (without getting out my rifles and attacking the instigators). I may be a “sheeple” but, at least, I complain and denounce an illegal and unconstitutional action and, if push came to shove, I think that I would refuse to kill an innocent person simply because my military superior ordered me to do so. I don’t blindly accept whatever our US Military does!

            So, YES, you are correct. But I am ALSO correct! You, by your own admission, are and have been a paid member and agent of the Military-Industrial-Complex which Ike and Washington warned us about. My “ranting” cannot be ascribed to simply being “paid off” for my arguments. I don’t make any money by espousing my points of view. You may call me a wimp and liberal or gay or unpatriotic or whatever but you cannot accuse me of having my point of view colored by “filthy lucre”.

            My sentiments are NOT colored by receiving a paycheck from the guvmint. My outspoken sentiments are based simply on the love I have for my country and its constitution. You, by belonging to the MIC, cannot describe yourself as an unbiased observer. You have several dogs in this hunt.

            Are you an “oath keeper”? If so, I applaud you. If your superiors ordered you, would you turn your weapons on US civilians (like REALLY happened in WACO and during OPERATION NORTHWOODS)?

            JEEP, I am NOT a minority of ONE!!! I have Ike, Washington and Gen. Smedley Butler on my side. And you cannot accuse them of cowardice. They ALL considered our own US Military as the greatest threat to our freedoms and liberty. And they, like you, were also agents of the MIC.

            You may dislike it terribly, but a soldier carrying out an unconstitutional order (like Libya) which results in the death of innocents (who have not attacked or theatened us) are simply guilty of murder. Is YOUR excuse also, “they were just carrying out orders”?

          • Jeep

            Tom, in spite of the rhetoric I must say that we are at least close to agreement on Lybia. No, I do not nor have I ever supported this current military action. I do however firmly contend that our soldiers and sailors are carrying out a mission for which they were trained and that they are absolutely not guilty of “murder”. Our unique relationship with the rest of the world (some would call it “the world’s policeman”) makes for very muddy waters when we intervene in someone else’s sandbox. I have seen soldiers protest and NOT carry out clearly illegal orders (no, I will not give specifics).

            As far as soldiers ever turning their guns on US citizens, I think you have nothing to worry about. I realize this has little weight with you as I am a part of the “MIC”. But, American soldiers are unlike any other army in history. Our all-volunteer force has a much higher standard and moral bearing than any other army in history. There are plenty of exceptions you may point to, but our army is staunchly pro-American and take their oath to the Constitution with solemn grace. WACO was NOT the Army. Ruby Ridge was NOT the Army. I firmly believe that any un-Constitutional order will be ignored.

          • Tom Anderson

            Jeep,

            So, if not MURDER how would you describe it? Isn’t the killing of one man by another without any threatening action or attack (Libya has not overtly threatened or attacked the USA) a simple definition of murder? Are you saying that “carrying out a mission for which they are trained” somehow negates the definition of murder? Are you saying that those dead bodies with american lead (bullets) in them are NOT the result of any crime? How can anyone squirm out of this simple definition? You have a dead body and a man who caused that death. Do you see how difficult it is for me to see ANY OTHER definition for this act than “murder”? – OK, perhaps “manslaughter” – I don’t want to nitpick.

            You point out and accept that there are lots of isolated cases where the military has not acted properly. But you did NOT address OPERATION NORTHWOODS. THAT was NOT isolated and it was a very limited view into the inner workings of the ENTIRE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF. And the Chairman signed off on it. THAT was not some rogue soldier or group of criminal soldiers. It was the ENTIRE LEADERSHIP of the US Military! And you tell me NOT to worry? Imagine if JFK had actually APPROVED of that operation!!! Why did JFK’s brains end up on the trunk of his Lincoln?

            On the contrary, I tend to pay MORE attention to the stark warnings which Washington and Ike BOTH declared in their farewell speeches to the nation. Do you have MORE experience than Ike or George? Do you pooh-pooh their warnings? Do you have some “insider” knowledge which they were not privy to? Would you have argued with them and tried to change their minds?

            Please tell me that you discount their warnings and that they really didn’t have enough intelligence or experience to give valuable advice to their fellow patriots – that you know better than them.

            Ike understood EXACTLY about operations like NORTHWOODS and tried his best to warn us. Obviously, Pres. Washington was equally concerned about the threat from our own military. Are you SURE there is nothing to worry about?

          • Jeep

            Tom, then go ahead and worry. In fact, lose as much sleep as you want. I believe whole-heartedly that the Army would never engage in an attempt to create a dictatorship in America. Ever. Think what you might, although the average Joe does not have access to the “overall plan”, I firmly assert that Joe would never support any effort to militarize America. This “fact” is well known at higher levels, our Constitution is very clear about the use of force within our own borders, and our soldiers understand this. On the other hand, there does seem to be a concerted effort to change the demographics of the military. The repeal of DADT, trying to place women in combat roles and the implementation of other “training” programs has created a less patriotic, flag waving soldier. But, when push-comes-to-shove, the average soldier still has faith in the Constitution, and the Constitution alone. So, believe what you want, but your neighbor in uniform is NOT your enemy.

          • Tom Anderson

            Jeep,

            WACO? Where do you think those ABRAMS tanks came from – FORT HOOD!!!

            There were TEN “Special Forces” “observers” at WACO.

            There were TWO “HIGH RANKING” Army Officer “Observers” at WACO. None of this is contested by any side of WACO. Incontravertible FACTS.

            I, of course, consider the Branch Davidians a bunch or crazies. But the FACT remains that the US Military took sides and supplied material and personel support on the side of the guvmint. A CLEAR case (like NORTHWOODS) which proves your assertion wrong.

            The US Military has and will be used as a tool by either GOP or DEMOS to further their unconstitutional agenda. And you guys simply salute to Obama and say, “YES SIR”!!

            Obviously, you are of low rank! My boss was in NSA for many decades and I was able to rub shoulders with top Generals from the Pentagon just prior to our attack on Saddaam. Those generals would NOT respond to an argument which quoted Gen. Washington and Ike with simple platitudes like you do. They would consider warnings from Ike and Washington with GREAT merit!

            Do you have enough sense to realize that you did NOT respond to my quotations of Ike and Washington and simply stated your NWO (New World Order) beliefs that “all is well” – “you can trust the US Military”? Not a peep from you about OPERATION NORTHWOODS – and wisely so, there IS no excuse for the murder of innocent americans by the US Military.

            This is the SAME US military which turned their backs on their friends in Viet Nam, turned tail, and left their S. Vietnamese friends and allies to to be tortured, raped and killed when the N. Vietnamese took over the South. There were a FEW good men who tried to save their S. Vietnamese friends, but most simply turned their backs on their friends and let the North have their way with them.

            Is there no SHAME remaining in the US Military over the massacres which occurred when the US Military turned tail in Nam? Is the excuse the same old one, “we were just following orders”?

            And my psuedo-conservative friends suggest that I am the coward. Shame on our US Military for leaving their friends to their doom in Nam! Do you want me to go on? How about the leaving the Kurds to be massacred by Saddam after we promised them refuge? THIS is NOT Washington’s Army!

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    7)Jefferson continued his rejection of the Christian church system in Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of Christanity, “There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites”

    • EltonJ

      What Jefferson meant is that our Superstition of Christianity gives Churchmen power over the people. The last thing the Churches need is an independent people who go to God for their answers to their questions instead of them.

      Jefferson wasn’t anti-God, he was anti-power in the hands of men. If anti-anything of a spiritual matter. He knew all too well what happens when a man gets a little authority. They tend to abuse it.

      Take our Ancestors, the Israelite Refugees. Moses led them out of bondage, but in their minds they still wanted to be in bondage. So they persecuted the Quorum of the 12, and the Quorum of the Seventy for prophesying. Moses was nearly brokenhearted when he found out, and thought that if the people were all prophets by themselves.

      That is the way it is supposed to be. We would be all prophets (little ‘p’) going to God to seek answers while the Prophet (capital P) holds the keys to the Priesthood and we can go to him to get the keys that we need to perform certain ordinances (marriage, baptism, endowment). Jefferson saw this, and tried to expose the current system for what it is: a system where priests keep people in spiritual bondage.

      Jefferson was anti-corrupt Church. He was never anti-god.

      • karolyn

        Jefferson was not a Christian. He did not believe that Jesus was Saviour and picked and chose what he wanted to believe in the Bible. I have heard that he had his own Bible, which had much writing blacked out in it. He did think it was a great book but did not believe.

        • Thamera

          Have you ever read the works of Thomas Jefferson Karolyn? I think not.

          • Karolyn

            Bits and pieces, but I know what I did read about his Bible.
            http://www.padfield.com/1994/jeff.html

          • Thamera

            Maybe you should read his own works then before commenting about his beliefs. Just a suggestion Karolyn…

          • JeffH

            Thamera, I did find this website and found it most ineresting about the Jefferson/Christian question.
            Thomas Jefferson: Deist or Christian? Debunking Dr James Kennedy
            http://www.sullivan-county.com/deism/jefferson_deist.htm

            Jefferson believed in an afterlife. Jefferson never called himself a Deist, but a Unitarian. In America and England of that time the two were much the same, a branch within liberal Protestantism. Unitarians rejected the Trinity, Original Sin, etc. and other Gnostic beliefs.

            To quote Jefferson, “I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed any other.”

          • Thamera

            Thank you for the link Jeff

          • Thamera

            And, I might add that I agree with the assessment of the author. Had I been alive during the time of Calvin or Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin I would of “run from religion” as well. The puritans for example were frighteningly intolerant and oppressive (albeit hard-workers)I would not want to have anything to do with them. The preachings of Jonathon Edwards for example would of been very hard to endure and it is not surprising that enlightened and well studied men like Jefferson and Franklin would abhor those teachings as well as the oppression from the Church of England. That being said, I grow very tired of the argument of who Jefferson was or wasn’t as a basis for ignoring the constitution. The constitution was founded on solid principles and values that are a result of heated debate, lengthy discussion, research and thought, based on several resources for insight and inspiration, philosophy’s and ideals and cannot be ignored (just to clarify where I stand) And like the author of the article you provided, what we studied at our school was almost always pre 1920 as we also sought to read the unadulterated works of the founders as well as the works from which they read and studied.

          • DaveH

            The most important thing that Jefferson believed was that people should be free to have their own beliefs, absent coercion by others.

          • DaveH

            I was surprised that according to this article “While recent scholarship on the subject tends to portray a union devotee, nonindividualistic, antiproperty rights Jefferson, with possible communitarian, if not even protosocialist undertones, this work does Jefferson justice.”
            Scary, eh? If they are maligning Thomas Jefferson, what must they be doing to the other historical champions of Freedom?
            http://blog.mises.org/15728/the-real-jefferson/

          • Thamera

            Exactly DaveH – simply put, that men are “free agents”.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Thamera,
            I would not have run from religeon, I would have run from the church!! Even in the KJV it states that men are failable, only God is not!

          • Thamera

            haha…point well taken Joe :D

        • James

          Karolyn, Jefferson was brainwashed, like most Christians, with long standing traditions that were contrary to what the Bible said. He believed “all men are created equal” (even adding that to the Declaration of Independence) while the Bible says no such thing.

          • Kate8

            James – Obviously, not all men are created equal.

            What he meant was that all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. The law is not supposed to show deference, preference, or bias.

            How far we’ve descended into that pit.

          • http://naver samurai

            We believe that all men are created equal, because they are created in the image of God! Harry S. Truman. The only one that is brainwashed James are you lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxists that answer their “messiah’s” every beck and call, moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • http://naver samurai

      He also said, “I have always said, and will always say, that studious perusal of the sacred volume (Bible) will make us better citizens.”

      Or maybe, “I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.”

      FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Norm

    It seems like Reagan invaded Grenada and bombed Libya, and Bush Sr. invaded Panama without getting Congressional approval. Hmmm.

    • Tom Anderson

      Yes! And do you think I would absolve him of his violations of his oath to office?

      The Oath of Enlistment of the US military states firstly the soldier’s duty to uphold and defend the U.S. Constitution – THEN obey the President and superior officers.

      The problem our murdering criminals in the U.S. Military are facing is that they are VIOLATING their FIRST and FOREMOST DUTY – to the U.S. Constitution and they are trying to excuse their murders by saying,” I am just following ORDERS ” – - have we ever heard THAT excuse before?

      That hollow excuse is working this time – it did NOT work during Nuremberg Trials – but I LOVE hypocrisy. We, of course, SHOULD hold our military to a WEAKER standard than the NAZIs.

      And Coal Miner quoted some interesting words of Jefferson in regards to Hypocrisy – MY favorite and MOST BELOVED characteristic – Hypocrisy is NOT the sole possession of conservative christians but shared equally with left-wing liberals and military war-mongers of the MIC (like Obama, Bush, Cheney, Bush SNR, and RR) – WHORING for the MIC. But Ike kept it to a minimum and so did Washington.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      As I stated earlier, it quite simple;
      The Constitution specifically requires that the following steps be followed:
      1-Congress Declare war
      2-Congress call into service the POTUS as CIC.

      You cannot Disregard #1 and Jump to #2 because there is NO PROVISION for this. So that said, since Congress didnt DECLARE WAR (the wording is very specific) Obama, Bush and EVERY president who has sent troops into combat did so Illegally. The US does not have a Commander in Chief Until they declare war!

      • http://deleted Claire

        Bitter Libertarian: You are correct.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      norm,
      you forget that Reagan “invaded” Grenada to rescue American hostages being held by Cuban troops, the REAL invaders!!

      • http://naver samurai

        You forget that people like abnorm don’t let the truth stand in the way of a good rant. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • EltonJ

    His war is illegal because there hasn’t been a declaration of war on both sides. Congress has the power to declare war according to the Constitution to prevent the President from being a war monger. Secondly, Omar Quaddafi never did declare war on us. The President had the right idea in the beginning — we should have stayed out of it. Obama is a flip flopper. He is worse than any other President in the fact that he flip flops on the side of sanity. In short, the man is easily duped and easily manipulated. He knows what to say, and how to say it. But he doesn’t know how to govern easily without being manipulated.

    @Norm, Noriega declared War on the United States. Therefore, unjustified or not, Bush Sr. did the right thing by a swift action. Yes, it was illegal.

  • Anthony

    THIS IS IN REPLY TO “STONE” and many others on here, who seriously are the laziest bloggers I’ve ever had the misfortune to read.

    ——————

    Actually, they’ve pushed the envelope for so long that only a real shutdown, inside U.S. Government, will do the trick. I have been reading incessantly for awhile now and I saw a comment recently that fits the bill on a K-6 level, so no one can mistrue the intent one way or any other.

    “In musical chairs, everything is fine, only so long as the music keeps playing. This means that in Government Budgets, only so long as they keep “raising” the Debt Spending Limit… will everything ‘seem’ to be okay. Once the music stops, however, someone suffers.”

    If you can’t fathom the message above, you need to be stalking elsewhere, people!

    Here is a website – that ALL should be reading. In fact, I am surprised at both Ben Crystal and Bob Livingston for not having supported this intent, quite some time ago.

    http://superstore.wnd.com/The-NO-MORE-RED-INK-Campaign

    I’m real tired of everyone screaming how some will suffer. I suppose it’s better that ALL of us suffer, as opposed to those who can, stepping in to ease the suffering of the fewer amount of people, while we END this MONEY IS DEBT nonsense. Because that’s what it is.

    Google up MONEY IS DEBT on Youtube.

    All of you have differing opinions on ObamaCare? I’d rather see we go back to Doctors making house calls. And, we can pay him (her) with chickens of computer repair efforts – I don’t care. All I know, is having a beaurocrat tell me how the diagnosis will be handled…. is BULL$HIT. And, THAT, is exactly what ObamaCare really is.

    Bush didn’t do anyone favors with his Medicare nonsense, either.
    It took MY generation to find out that the previous two generations were so lax in watching BIG PHARMA charge Americans, what Canadians were getting for 1/10th the price. And, they’d been doing it for several decades, if not longer. A Generation is considerd every 15 years, folks. Not twenty. I just lay it out there.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Anthony,

      I’m not sure I know what you mean. Supported what intent?

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • http://naver samurai

        I don’t think he really knows. It’s kind of hard for some people to think when they are in rant mode. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Anthony,
      It has been said for a long time from BOTH sides that the reason that pharmas cost so much is we are the only country being charged for the research and advertising costs. Well if this is true, and I think it IS part of it then spread the charge over all the developed countries in the world and costs will plummit!!

      • Kate8

        Joe H. – Our medical system, BigPharma and medical “research” are nothing but fronts set up to fund the covert projects of the power elite.

        Haven’t noticed how “research” never really gets any closer to a cure for any of the biggies? That’s because select diseases are the big CASH COW for the industry. In fact, NOTHING is ever cured, but only “managed”. (It’s impossible to “cure” anything using substances that are incompatible with our biological/electro-magnetic systems.)

        Americans have been hemmorhaging to the “world’s greatest medical system” for decades, while only getting sicker. More diseases are surfacing every day. More diseases = more profits.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Stone, I see your a Bush hater.No matter what, your going to blame Bush.
    As for the to party system, it has worked for us for over two hundred
    years an gave us our freedoms and made this the greatest country in
    the world. Now we have a president, that would like to do away with
    our goverment, as you said, and in hopes he is made leader for life.
    Your right, you would have one man rule, with no debate on how this country is ran. You need to move to Russia or China,I hear their looking for new comrades to bow down to their every wishes. Then again, you might stay in the USA and if Obama gets his way, you might be able to bend over and Obama can, You know, I say no more.

    • http://google Lubie63

      Charles, our nations whole economic problem is due to Bush. His tax cuts to the rich have condemned this country. Obama tried to get those wealthy tax cuts removed but the GOP voted against it.
      If anyone knows the history our Founding Fathers income tax structure, knows that, “Government can tax only in time of need, and only the wealthy were to be taxed, never the middle or lower class!”
      That was changed in 1949 forever.

      • American Citizen

        Balderdash!! Tax cuts have always brought in more money to the treasury. It’s not the tax cuts that are the problem, it’s the spending. When you spend more than you take in, it leads to bankruptcy.

        • WayneT

          American Citizen, if we can get the Democrats out of office who are constantly giving our money away, we would have a lot more money. In fact maybe we could even get more tax breaks and create more jobs for those who want to work. I know of a person that receives $350.00 per month because he is an alcoholic, and will not work. Just think how many more there are out there like this across the country. I say, let those that are in this shape because of their own life style starve to deaath.

      • Thamera

        HAHAHA As if Obama himself isn’t wealthy! When was the last time Obama or any leading, wealthy democrat contributed to the “political pot” do ya think? The wealthy can always contribute to their government anytime they want to, anyone can. Maybe Obama should “lead by example?” Just a thought. Lubie…you and the like are CLUELESS!!!

      • http://naver samurai

        Are you an ostrich? You sure sound like you’ve had you head in the sand for the last 2 years. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • WayneT

      Charles, you have to consider the source. People like this will be blaming Bush for the next 50 years. They will never put the blame on their inadequate Muslim President.

      • JC

        I was with ya right up till “President” ;)

        • http://?? Joe H.

          JC,
          i was just gonna ask him if he meant muslim PRETENDER????

  • mark

    I agree that this war is waillegal, but so was the Korean, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghan War. I believe that there has to a Declaration of War, approved by Congress for the USA to send troops or air power to any foreign country. The reason, in my opinion that we have fought these wars is because the defence contractors corporations are making money off of these wars and without wars there would be no reason for billions of dollars spent on the military and there would be no reason for a huge military.and that would make the military mad. I believe that the USA should only protect the USA only. Seal our borders! I voted for Obama and I will be voting for a candidate that will get us out of Afghanstan and Iraq. We need a Bobby Kennedy!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Mark,
      We don’t need another bleeding heart kennedy in office!!! We need a combination of a few people rolled into one. As far as our borders and deportation, we need another IKE! As far as foreign affairs we need another Jefferson!! As far as protecting and defending our counrty, we need another Washington!! rool these three together and we will have one hell of a leader!!!

  • JeffH

    I hope there are others around that believe that all of the unrest, riots and uprisings in the Middle East have nothing to do with democracy. I’ll go out on a limb here and say that democracy in the middle east is an impossibility.

    There are overt and covert operations taking place in the middle east to help start, what seems to be, popular uprisings and coups against tyrannical dictators. The Muslim Brotherhood and the hands of Iran, directly and indirectly through various Islamic “splinter” groups, is steering the current uprisings in the Middle East and North Africa.
    Ultimately they are being manipulated to create and continue the middle ease unrest unknowingly from the greatest economic forces in the world…the House of Rothschilds and their banking cabal and all of their worldly resources…CFR, UN, Nato…

    Who stands to profit from the middle east unrest? As the price of oil skyrockets upwards, predicted to go over $200/barrel by summer, who stands to profit? Not you or I!

    Obama is a puppet for the globalists, he’s pushing the UN’s global environmental agenda off on us, he’s thwarted America’s attempt to become self dependent on our own oil reserves despite his own recent speech to openly call for increased domestic oil production. “Throwing the dog a bone” is more like it.

    • Thamera

      I agree JeffH. I don’t think that region of the world is ready for democracy or even wants democracy because they don’t even know what it is. It is an abstract concept at this point in time, in my opinion.

    • Kate8

      Exactly, JeffH. We know who’s behind all of this, and what it’s about. It’s not at all what most people think, or what’s being fed to us by the media.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Anthony,
    Excelent post,aren`t most left wingers stupid, narrow minded,or just to damn lazy to get the truth and facts, that they need to present their case. Stone is among the best of them. Wait till you hook up with the three stooges Bob wire,Denniso,and jopa.Three very nice people,but you aren`t going to believe what they come up with. With
    out them, we would be talking to our selves.

    • Thamera

      I have noticed that they never respond with anything factual, ever, nor do they answer specific questions or respond to any of the links that are posted…

      • bob wire

        That is just not so, while not a liberal by a long shot, I do represent them often here as it offers a target rich environment.

        That I elect to ignore your bait and so called “facts” is for good reason as you stereotype, generalize and are often simple disingenuous or misinformed. I find your links often suspect as well while some are very informative.

        I’m left to respond more to commentary as that’s mostly what is presented.

        And then too, often I agree with you and offer you nothing unless I find it profoundly brilliant.

        I’d be most happy to accommodate you or another else here on hard issues. But it seems this is almost impossible to do without interrupting your premature End Zone celebration dance.

        That you set yourself up to be both judge and jury on any “bout” and by your very nature you always “KNOW” while I usually “THINK” you fail to see any pin or defeat and it’s left up to other readers to decide and few here are impartial and have their “egos” in check but project a strong bias as the forum itself.

        I’m looking for and enjoy a good fight, but you must offer me one.

  • JeffH

    While Americans have every reason to oppose the continued transfer of their wealth, in the form of foreign aid, to regimes such as Mubarak’s and Ben Ali’s, we also can hardly favor even worse regimes modeled on the likes of those in power in Beirut, Damascus, and Tehran. Yet that is a very distinct likelihood, as a result of the recent turnovers and the continued turmoil. Russia, China, Iran Syria, Hezbollah, and Hamas have all hailed the toppling of Egypt’s Mubarak, and there is good reason to believe this is not merely opportunistic rhetoric; they undoubtedly intend to turn it into concrete benefit for their interests.

    CFR Handprints Everywhere
    Contrary to the conventional cover stories presenting the uprisings in Cairo, Tunis, and elsewhere as spontaneous bottom-up affairs, there is a great deal of evidence indicating that they were instead coordinated top-down events planned long before the first street demonstrations began. And like the slime trail in the garden that leads to the slug, the trail here leads back to the Council on Foreign Relations. Utilizing its unparalleled network of high-level members in the U.S. government, the United Nations, the World Bank, the Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation, the Brookings Institution, and many NGOs, corporations, and philanthropic organizations, the CFR has employed a pincer attack pressuring the target governments with economic and diplomatic efforts from above, while funding Astroturf protests from below designed to look like real grass-roots affairs.

    Who can overlook the thought that if Russia or China took the lead in aquiring the bulk of middle east’s black gold that it would create a step backwards in the globalist NWO’s control,greed and power agenda.

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/world-mainmenu-26/asia-mainmenu-33/6784-organized-chaos-behind-the-scenes-in-the-middle-east

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Mark,
    You and many others who voted for Obama are very dangerous people.
    None of you paid attention what obama said.Transform America and spread the wealth. You all where either to lazy or to much in hate of Bush to find out what Obama meant. This man and is Marxist,yes Marxist thugs have almost broke this country.If it keeps up, you won`t have to worry about wars out side our borders,your headed
    for a civil war in this country. You right, all the wars you mentioned weren`t declared wars, but where approved by Congress.Now there is one war and it was not approved by Congress. Now guess, what war is that and who might be the President.You probley think it was Bush and you just missed what war it was. Your wrong, it is the war in Libya and Obama is the President,your fearless God, who thinks he can bypass congress at every turn.

    • WayneT

      People like Mark are the reason this country is in the bad economic shape were in now. They think the government owes people a living. People need to be responsible for themselves. The working man should not have to support those too lazy to work.

  • http://google Lubie63

    Right now the U.S. has as much oil as we need in Cushing,OK, the largest oil reserve in the U.S. I work for Enbridge pipeline and we have had to slow our Canadien oil lines down because U.S. cannot use the glut of oil in Cushing until we buy our allotted amount that Kissenger agreed with the Arab’s in the 80′s

    • WayneT

      Good golly, I never knew that we had that type of agreement with Saudia Arabia. No wonder the price is continuing to go up. Where can I find this information, Lubie63. That is good to know, but this is certainly bad for our country. We need good sound men leading our country, not the Democrats Idiot (Communist) we have in there now, or some of the ones we have had in there i the past.

  • giley1

    Okay! we know that only Congress can declare war and we have been hearing every kind of argument from both parties. There is only one way to fix this problem that has been going in for too long. Plain and simple, as our forefathers who were wise enough to realize the weakness of men and the propensiti to engage in war then we should call for the immediate sieze of all conflicts that do not fit into the defenition of immediate danger to our country and citizens. But only a brave Congress can take this task on. Serve Obama with a notice to follow the Constitution or be impeached.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    JeffH,
    George Soros answers only to the Rothschilds and as we speak is holding two conference`s with his left wing goons, how and what type of
    economies we or should have, I have said they, through out the world.
    Why isn`t this being covered by the main street media? Is it because
    of Obama`s close ties to Soros that this is being kept low key? It`s going to be a stretch for us that care for this country and under-
    stand what the Progressives are trying to do for us to make it to
    the 2012 elections. May God so help us.

    • WayneT

      I do not watch those network channels like NBC, ABC, CBS, and a few others as they are all in bed with their lover,Obama. I don’t know how people oould still watch them.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Wayne t, I Only Watch Fox and read alot of books__ then draw my own conclusions. For years I trusted the major news_ what a joke!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Angel Wannabe,
          As I said earlier, to know your enemy is to defeat him!!! Watch them once in awhile!!!

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    giley>>>>>Right On>>>>>> A Democrat Congressman from Ohio is mad as hell for Obama going into Libya without the congress approvable and mentioned, maybe Obama should be impeached.

  • http://! Angel Wannabe

    Off thread_ needed to vent___Talk about a war??…I’ve about had it with the Media news spinning an apocalyptic fire storm if the Guv shuts down…Riiiiight they’re not going to pay our soldiers?_-What a crock!__If this is sooooo terrible, why’d the Dems wait til now to try and balance the budget, “answer” to make the repubs look bad!!!—Bite me Libs!!!

    • Thamera

      You aren’t kidding Angel, and add to that the extreme vitriol from the left, democratic senators equating the shut down of the govt. to the murder of woman and children! They will stoop to any level and are the epitomy of slander, hate, fear mongering, deceipt, hypocrisy and outright lies! It is disgusting…their hypocrisy, piety and deceipt know no bounds.

      • http://deleted Claire

        I believe both parties are disgusting. One is certainly no better than the other. I look at this pathetic mess being disaplayed on TV, and to me it is nothing but more political gameplaying. The Democrats want the Republicans to look bad and the Republicans want the Democrats to look bad. Why in hell don’t they grow up, all of them. I do not place either party on a pedestal. They are all idiots. And the hate? BOTH parties are guilty of this. I find the entire lot of them to be absolutely pathetic. Time for a third party and believe me, I will promote a third party.

        • http://deleted Claire

          displayed –

        • Carlucci

          You are right. Both parties are the pits. All of this stupid finger pointing and bickering is just a ruse to mislead the American public yet again, and keep the focus off the real problem – the idiots in D.C.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Carlucci–I will add to my post—I do not like the Tea Party. I have watched and listened to tea party representatives, they are no better than the two political parties. I have had it “up to here” with the entire screwed-up mess.

          • Kate8

            Claire – There are millions if sincere, determined people who make up the TeaParty. It is inevitable that the PTB will infiltrate any group that get’s big enough to be a threat, but why throw out the baby with the bathwater?

            Do you see a better option right now? Because I don’t. We either do what it takes to make something work, despite the progressive attempts to thwart, or we just give up because it’s not perfect. It’s the PEOPLE who make any machine run. It’s up to the PEOPLE to make sure that their cause is not hijacked, and to monitor their ranks.

            There are several TeaParty members in my family, some military. They are working to save America and to restore sanity and freedom.

            We will not be able to form ANY group without the enemy working to gain inroads to corrupt it. It is OUR job to make sure they don’t.

        • bob wire

          It’s more like 53% of eligible voters spoke making it a much softer mandate then 2008 elections when voters sent the GOP packing in large numbers. My congratulation to a great 2010 comeback, at least now you are no longer required to be the party of “NO” , stranded on some deserted political island all alone watching the sea gulls.

          It appears to me that “Thamera” is the party doing the whining in this little sidebar and if you will attempt to stay focused and read back the last 6 posting you will see that I am correct.

          Thamera has complained that I failed to respond to posting in anything other then generalities and fail to address “his facts” (just more whine) yet he is much more guilt then I with sweep inference statements, stereotyping and discursive commentary.

          I have stopped, ~ taken time out to give Thamera the attention that he requested ( with details and hard data) only to be accused of whining by you!

          Angel, this is not a team sport in spite of what you might believe. To think and speak in a sane fashion is not a vise. This mindset that you carry and display will only lead to ruin as you seem to believe 1.3 million Tea Party members constitutes some kind of overwhelming majority. You don’t “Think” Angel, you “Know” as do many others here.

          But it truth, you think that you know.

      • bob wire

        “They will stoop to any level and are the epitome of slander, hate, fear mongering, deceit, hypocrisy and outright lies! It is disgusting…their hypocrisy, piety and deceit know no bounds.”

        feeling are mutual I’m sure.

        It’s a fight fire with fire process. ~ To be reasonable and well composed with a metered tone only encourages the opposition to become more aggressive and take greater liberties with the “facts” as they seem to believe they got away with it.

        Like the GOP congressman claim yesterday that planned Parenthood care provision was 90% abortion related. That Sir, is simple not true as it is only 3% and no Federal money is used in this 3% activity as per the Hyde Amendment that is in place and strongly enforced.

        For women to not receive quality heath care in reproduction issues is to shorten the life of women and their children. Our society has acknowledged this as a cold hard fact and addressed it, refusing to hide from these unpleasant realities as women, unlike men are the womb and host to life itself.

        For a man that has some sense of a social conscience, the GOP is tugging on Superman cape and the DNC is most willing to take the GOP to the mat on the matter. ~ We will not permit .008 % of the budget to be paid elusively by 5 million American women with their lives and the lives of their children as some call us baby killers.

        This is a proactive health cares service that offers America large returns on the investment and a healthier population.

        You are not going to demonize planned Parenthood and recipients of Title 10 with lies and “not expect” a strong heartfelt response from the rank and file of the DNC.

        So ! My suggestion is, don’t start something that you can’t finish.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Thamera, Well said!!!__These Libs STILL have they’re damn panties in a bunch, because of the election November! Wah Wah Wah we lost, so were going to make your life a living hell, for your choices!!_Sal Alinsky anyone!!!!__ The people spoke and the dems don’t like it! To keep the ball rolling and to pay Americans back for they’re choice at the poles, We have the Wisconcin Walker vs workers Union soap opera. The Unions are screaming for theye’re collective bargaining rights, ya got codepink marching in the M.East, and Soros doing what he does best, and trying to bring down another country “Ours”!

        And while I’m at it_in regards to who’s worse the Repubs or the the Dems__I know the repubs made they’re mistakes just like the Dem/Socialist party, but those who continually stand on the fence against both parties, better soon draw a line in the sand, and decide which side of the fence your on__THANK CHRIST our Founders chose a side OR there wouldn’t be America. Standing in the Middle pointing the finger, nothing will get done! Chose your poison folks, one may be a slower death than the other, but none of us, can afford to give up trying, I for one will go down with the ship!!!

        • bob wire

          Well, it’s a fact that you are sinking but please don’t take the rest of us with you Angel.

          I misplaced this post earlier (sorry)

          It’s more like 53% of eligible voters spoke making it a much softer mandate then 2008 elections when voters sent the GOP packing in large numbers. My congratulation to a great 2010 comeback, at least now you are no longer required to be the party of “NO” , stranded on some deserted political island all alone watching the sea gulls.

          It appears to me that “Thamera” is the party doing the whining in this little sidebar and if you will attempt to stay focused and read back the last 6 posting you will see that I am correct.

          Thamera has complained that I failed to respond to posting in anything other then generalities and fail to address “his facts” (just more whine) yet he is much more guilt then I with sweep inference statements, stereotyping and discursive commentary.

          I have stopped, ~ taken time out to give Thamera the attention that he requested ( with details and hard data) only to be accused of whining by you!

          Angel, this is not a team sport in spite of what you might believe. To think and speak in a sane fashion is not a vise. This mindset that you carry and display will only lead to ruin as you seem to believe 1.3 million Tea Party members constitutes some kind of overwhelming majority. You don’t “Think” Angel, you “Know” as do many others here.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            bob, I’ve made up mind agruing with opposing sides gets us no where. I come here now, to share view points with those who would share mine, other Conservatives. So you’ll excuse me if I don’t stick around and play!

            I drop off my opinion now and take off. We each chose our poison Bob, we either live with it, by it, or change it. It’s all a choice Buddy!

          • Thamera

            At this point Angel, I don’t even know what Bob W. is talking about or what direction he even faces. I’m going to say that is because he, like Eddie don’t have a firm foundation on which they stand. Eddie has just said himself that most issues are “middle of the road”. That is a sad and scary statement and couldn’t be further from the truth and further testament that they seem to have a very vague concept of the principles and values that the constitution was founded upon.

            As for Bob W. I cannot let you continue to get away with the lib talking points about Planned Parenthood. They are not the “end all” and they do perform abortion “en mass” and where do you get your numbers from? Ending PP is going to cut a woman’s life short? Are you for real? There are several agency’s (private and public) that offer FREE health care to men and women, they are ABUNDANT! It makes me wonder that you don’t just throw stuff like that out there to “stoke the fire”. In fact, I think you even admitted to that. Making claims such as the dems are doing and that you are parroting is nothing short of yelling “FIRE” in a crowded theater.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            I hear that Thamera!, A lot of folks don’t know what direction they are(confuesd), so they choose the middle of the road, and then stand there, and wait to be TOLD what direction to take, hence indoctrination. Which tells me why there are so many lost souls, they are the ones the Commies prey on, they just can’t see it.
            As I said before, I’m well aware that both sides of the aisle are at fault, but we have 3 choices, the Leftists/commies/Dems, The Repubs/country club repubs, and then the Independents. Alot of folks cry out for another choice, but we need answers & solutions now, there is no time or money to sit around trying to create another party, because sadly, they too will have they’re faults.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Thamera Agreed, Plenty of entitlements were in place prior to the induction of OBAMACARE, such as, Medicaid, Guv Grants, Welfare Assitance, but the only way Obamcare could be approved, is for the Liberals to lie about it, and paint a grim picture of people dying in the streets without medical care. If people were dying in the streets, then God took them before they got to the help thats out there, or they didn’t ask where to go for help. The Liberals fooled alot of people with this and many other lies. Which the only way they can get their agenda’s passed, by lying. Because who in they’re right mind would want Socialism.

          • Karolyn

            Thamera – You said “There are several agency’s (private and public) that offer FREE health care to men and women, they are ABUNDANT!” Where do you live that these agencies are so abundant? We arte fortunate here to have a nonprofit medical office that charges on a sliding scale. Other than that and the hospital for emergencies, that’s it.

          • Thamera

            How many do you need Karolyn? Along with the fact that no one is denied medical care from hospitals ANYWHERE. It happens to be part of what I do, which is to link low income families with medical care as well as other services. You would be amazed at how many agencies are available for people with a low or modest income to provide financial care, medical care, mental health care, food, rental assistance, and that is just the tip of the iceberg and I live in probably one of the most conservative states in the nation…Idaho.

          • DaveH

            The thing is, Karolyn, they have to take that money from somebody else which means those people may be able to afford less of the care they need. When you take money from the producers, it is understandable that they will become discouraged and work less, and produce less. And the recipients of that stolen money sure aren’t going to produce more. So, the economy contracts more, and all of us suffer — poor or not so poor.
            In the end, it has been proven in country after country that Big Government impoverishes the countries, thus meaning less money for food, shelter, and medical care. If you really do care about those unfortunate people, you are advocating the wrong path.

          • Thamera

            Thank you DaveH and that IS the point exactly. When the government can take from one to give to another that is less than free, it is almost criminal in my opinion. Case in point: As a young mother I was sitting with my young son in the waiting room at the dentist. Next to me was another young mother holding her medical card. From the gist of her conversation she was single, unwed and talking to a new boyfriend. I didn’t think much about it until later when I was doing my taxes. The amount of my son’s dental work was almost the equivalent dollar for dollar of the amount taken out of MY income to fund medicaid. It took me over a year to pay for the dental work for my son and it dawned on me that had that amount not been taken from MY income, I would of have had the money to pay for MY son’s dental care…as it was that money went to pay for the single, unwed mother sitting next to me that day in the dentist office. Now, tell me how that is right, just or fair??? And in case there is any confusion…I am FAR from wealthy, or even close to it – but I am hard-working.

    • bob wire

      Is that your final answer?

      • Eddie47d

        Seems like Angel is doing alot of finger pointing when she deplores it. Most issues are middle of the road so that is why people “sit on the fence”. They don’t want your extremes anymore than from the left. Alinsky died 40 years ago and most people wouldn’t even know who he is. The extremes on the right keep bringing him up and give him the notoriety. How about solving today’s problems with present day leaders?

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          eddie__does anyone hear something?

          • JeffH

            Yes Angel, an annoying bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            jefhh, bzzzzzzzz!!!! lol

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Angel Wannabe,
      Off topic a little, but did you see the report about ACORN in Nevada?? Everyone was saying BEFORE the election that Dirty Harry couldn’t possibly be reelected?? now we find that ACORN is guilty of voter fraud in the very same state??? think we can further connect the dots???

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        JoeH, absolutely connect the dots! There was a oversite in Wisconsin of I believe 7500 votes that were “missed” for a Repub??

        • libertytrain

          Angel, that Wisconsin story is so overblown. Go read the articles in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Liberty, I haven’t really followed it,all I know they said was an oversite.

          • libertytrain

            Basically, she took the numbers from her spreadsheet, entered them into the computer and then the next day noticed that it showed “0″ votes for Brookfield. Which is of course not possible. So she had to go back and get the votes from Brookfield added to the final tally. She may not be incredibly bright, but if this wasn’t such a hotly contested race looking for instant results, the mistake would have still been caught and not caused such a brouhaha. Brookfield is a very heavy Republican based area.

  • American Citizen

    I heard Harry Reid make the statement last evening on Fox that we need to “fund the government.” Therein lies the problem. In other words, the Democrats think they’re not into your wallet deep enough. The government has its nose in so many places it has no business being in the first place. In my opinion, we need to DeFund the government to give us citizens breathing room to fund our own obligations.

  • Raggs

    We need a billboard with obamas mug stating “DO YOU HATE ME YET?

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Raggs, wanna bet how many eggs’ll be tossed onto that piture????_LOL

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        raggs_ shyt, I meant picture!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          We knew what you meant, and I’ll bet there aren’t that many eggs in the US!!! They’d be importing them just for THAT!!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            JoeH, boy you said a mouthful there!!

    • http://deleted Claire

      God forgive me for saying this but how about: “Got money?”

  • Ken

    Chip, Did you mean Sudan rather than Rwanda? Rwanda certainly is appropriate, and if that’s what you did mean, you could add Sudan, Zimbabwe, Uganda, Cambodia, East Timor and undoubtably others.

  • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

    HEAR YE! HEAR YE! You are a divided and defeated USA , Custer DIED FOR YOU SINS, and you all have been Mind FU$##@ to your Death> Now put that in you peace pipe and smoke it.

    • chuckb

      wia, you’ve been beating your tom tom too much. it’s time to stop, the covered wagons are gone and the warhoops have gone silent, the braves are sitting in front of the tv drinking beer, white man good!

      • Carlucci

        LOL – !!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      WIA,
      Lay off the firewater!!! No ORDINARY MAN died for my sins, Only Jesus!!! I will tell you that here and I would tell you that in person as well!!

  • WayneT

    Obama is a jerk. He is acting more like a king, with absolute power, than a president. He should be impeached, but then we would get old Joe Biden in there who could not find his way out of a paper bag. I guess we’ll have to wait until 2012. Good luck to Donald Trump. He is the only man in this country who has the guts to check on Obama’s birth certificate issue. I don’t think he will find one since I do not believe Obama was born in the country,

  • Thamera

    Not to mention the level of vitriol launched at the repulicans by democratic senators equating the shut down of the gov. to the murder of women and children. They will stoop to any level. They (the dems) are an utter disgrace and are they epitomy of deceipt, slander, hypocrisy and outright lies. It is disgusting.

  • chuckb

    thamera, that type of vitriol has worked well in the past, they scared the wimpy repubs and got their way with the very bad legislation that has caused this countries problems. i hope this new crop holds the bolsheviks back and do what is right.

    • Denniso

      I wonder if you two realize that shutting down the gov’t is going to drain the economy of billions of $$? The economy upon which we all depend and which when it shrinks will also create less revenue to the gov’t. That will make the deficit even larger than it already is.

      • http://deleted Claire

        Denniso–This exactly what I have heard and this is exactly what my husband says.

      • Thamera

        That’s right Denniso and the dems in congress could put a stop to it right now….in fact, hmmm….wasn’t that their job back in October? To pass a budget??? Yep, I think so….

        • http://deleted Claire

          For two whole years, these wonderful political parties couldn’t pass crap. Talk about a miserable waste of time. The Republicans made up their minds at the onset that they would not vote “for” anything that the Democrats tried to pass. And vice versa. The last two years was nothing but a farce. Both parties wanted each other to fail. That was all they could think about. Pathetic and shameful. Shame on all of them. Shame on them for acting like a bunch of spoiled brats (I prefer to say a nastier word). Now the Republilcans are going after the organizations that support the Democrats. And vice versa. All they are thinking about is making themselves “look good” and to hell with America and all Americans. They care only about 2012 and their pathetic political party. Soros is behind the Democrats and the Koch Brothers are behind the Republicans. Now you can all come after me and call me names. Come on, I’m ready. But be assured I can give back as good as I get.

          • Thamera

            I don’t agree Claire, completely. While I do agree that there is corruption and vitriol on both side of the aisle; there is still an underlying philosophy that divides the parties and that is what I pay attention too. As for the Koch brothers; what do you really know about them other than what the mainstream media spits out over and over again? As for Soros, there is irrefutable proof of the underlying philosophy and ideology that motivates him; as well as whom he as well as our president surround themselves with. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t trust our government as a whole but there is a difference. They are not all cut from the same cloth. btw: who are you expecting to call you names?

          • Thamera

            btw: Dems could of passed a budget…they controlled congress and had Obama at the helm…

          • bob wire

            Well Claire, from your two year summary of US political discourse I’m left to call you head and shoulders above the many here.

            While it is indeed seriously problematic to have a 13.8 trillion dollars national debt and be looking for ways to reduce it in anyway possible.

            It is equally problematic to engage in a 12 years war and never bothering to make arrangements to pay for it or never wishing to even bother to discuss how it’s to be funded. Not to mention, Who’s to gain from this war, which part of our nation has it served the most and have they been asked to contribute more then the rest of us?

            Who has this war served outside the US and have they been asked to contribute?

            This war has been waged at great cost to all Americans if we are to be the ones to pay this 13.8 billion dollars all by ourselves.

            I’ve not completely convinced that we need to or should.

            I demand a itemized receipt for what we have paid! LOL~!

            Yesterday the GOP stated concerns was jobs and today they are attempting to address social issues, limit voting rights, and championing smaller and much more intrusive government then ever in history while claiming government is the problem and it needs to get out of our way so we can move along and do as we please.

            House Leader JB spoke a minute ago after reaching a 39 million budget cut deal, saying this will cut the debt and allow job provides to create more jobs. HOW??????? is what I wonder.

            This 39 million cut is going to send some people home that was helping the rest of us pay taxes. Now they won’t be and they won’t be buying insurance , cars or getting their nails polished either.

            STUPID WARS to no end, that only serve a few people that avoid the responsibility for them has us eating on each others in sanctimonious fashion, has us fighting over table scraps and threatening to cut reproduction care for 5 million American women that would not get care otherwise. ~ That is almost an early death sentence to a woman. Do you men know that?

            Why care about the unborn when you don’t give a shit about the mother?

            I’m all for budget cutting but we need to get America out of these wars that’s draining our life’s blood and get America back on a profitable bases with import/export before we make drastic cuts. We need to get these crude oil speculators that artificially drive up fuel cost, Tared & Feathered and ran out of town.

            There’s much work to do before we cut off the Fed as many of you suggest that we should. Accept it as requiring transitional time and work to that end. One foot in front of the other.

          • bob wire

            “As for the Koch brothers; what do you really know about them other than what the mainstream media spits out over and over again?”

            Well? tell us about them then. Hard working,generous,nice guys?

          • http://deleted Claire

            Thamera: What I know about the Koch Brothers I did not hear from the MSM. I read a lot of information from several different sites on the Internet. I observe both sides and make my own determination about issues. I don’t follow the crowd. I am my own person. The Koch Brothers bankrolled the Tea party through Dick Armey which is what political parties do, especially when they want candidates to be elected that will do their bidding. Again, this is what political parties and their “backers” do to promote their own gain and agendas. The Koch Brothers have a lot to gain by making sure candidates are elected who oppose regulations concerning the oil and gas industry. They are top greenhouse gas polluters. They have had numerous environmental violations and fines. Koch Industries had to pay $30 million for reported pipeline oil spills that caused 3 million gallons of oil to spill into lakes and streams in 6 states. Their conduct concerning oil spills is the reason why they are against the EPA or any regulation concerning the environment which does oppose efforts to protect public health. I have said this before, drill for oil onshore, but do it responsibly, safely, and do it correctly. It can be done, but the head honchos of industry can only see dollar signs.
            Name calling? I have seen plenty of it on this blog. Sometimes this is what happens when anyone disagrees with a person’s comments.
            Now, if you or anyone else considers me to be a tree-hugger and an enviromental fanatic, then so be it. I know what I believe in and I do not approve of destroying the earth, the water, and our wildlife to enable someone’s greed. Greed is a good word since there is plenty of it the name of politicians and their so-called backers.
            The Koch Brothers’ network works hard to advance a right-wing ideological agenda that helps their businesses to reap more profit at the expense of the environment, the economy, and the American middle class. The same can be applied to the left-wing. To me, this makes them “cut from the same cloth.”

          • http://deleted Claire

            bob wire– Yes, we need to get our troops out of the quagmire they are in and bring them home. I was never in favor of sending our troops to these countries. Nothing has been gained, other than the loss of our soldiers’ lives in these drummed-up wars. It makes me positively sick. When I was a kid, I used to hear that wars were created for the economy. Geez, that is a crock of garbage. These wars have put us in such a financial hole that we will never get out of it. You mentioned an itemized receipt for the cost–I have heard and read so many times about construction companies ripping us off. Millions of dollars unaccounted for—where did this money go? It seems everyone was out to make a fast buck at the expense of our soldiers’ lives and the American taxpayer.

          • sherriww

            @claire:you sure don’t have to think that I,for one, will ever take exception,to the things you said.Because,its a fact,and has been proven,that this so-called”movement”for all this turmoil,was planned as soon as Pres.O.got elected,and was was put to play the day after he was sworn in.The republicans had their orders-say NO-to anything Obama did,said,or wanted,even if it was things they would normally say yes to!That is really how the”tea party”was born.Oh,there were a few around calling themselves that,but the” big money folks”saw an opportunity to use those people to further their agendas against Obama.THE BIG JOKE IS THAT-The $ people expected the tea party folks to go far away,once they were done using them!You don’t think that first batch of tp folks had the$ for half Million$ buses to travel around the country in?Hardly-a lot of them are on the very soc.sec.that those they are now helping,are trying to take from them,and all of us,and I expect some of them get it now,that the” money guys”will take it all from them too,and then spit them out like a bad taste when done with them!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            bib , wire you lIbs crack me up with your entitlements, where does it end?_You libs have an agrument for everything!_

            “-What the hell did our Grand parents do before the Guv started they’re damned entitlements, I’ll tell, ya what they did, the people were born, they lived and died_PERIOD. They were responcible for themselves and they’re families or they didn’t eat!_-Our Grandparents and all those who came before us, obviously did a pretty damn good job or caring for themselves, or this generation(us) wouldn’t be able to be here, on this site, bitching about it, would we???

          • Thamera

            Good for you Claire and I have done the same, only I have come to a different conclusion: That there is such a thing as the “lessor of two evils.” And Bob W., yah, I’d say the Koch brothers are pretty generous AND they employee a h_ll of a lot of people!! Seems like you are pretty concerned about people losing their jobs so I would think that would make you happy. As for the Tea Party, I can see that the MSM has done their job well. Need I say more?

          • Thamera

            Oh and Sherrie: No one, not one person out there is trying to take social security away. Again, I don’t know what your sources are but they are doing exactly what they want you to do: live in FEAR! YOU have nothing to fear, that is for the next generation and the ones after that….

          • http://deleted Claire

            Tea Party? I was fine with them in the beginning. Now it is more of the same old, same old. Just like the other parties, funded by people that are seeking candidates that will do their bidding.

          • DaveH

            Claire,
            You can see from just this topic, that people have a diverse array of opinions. That’s people. The best any of us can do is think a lot, and listen to others a lot. But in the end, we will never all think alike (thank goodness). That’s why we need to quit allowing the Leviathan Government to expand unendingly. Government is Force. Government is taking one size and squeezing us all into it. There is no way we can expect any kind of peace and prosperity as long as so many people think that Big Government is the Solution. They aren’t. They are the Problem. We need to get back to Personal Responsibility, and we need to get back to respect for private property (money or otherwise).

          • http://?? Joe H.

            bob wire,
            what taxes are those people actually paying?? Their whole salary COMES FROM TAXES!!! So they send a portion of their salary back, whats the diff? Cut their salary by the amount they send in and let them get away without paying taxes and see how much difference it makes in the overall scheme of things. Do that with all the other people that pay and see how much difference THAT makes!!

          • bob wire

            “Gee bob,
            Let’s talk swine flu. If it is real and it came about as YOUR government wants us to believe, then it’s the FAULT of the government that it’s here!!!”

            Several thoughts here; if it just MY government and not yours, you don’t need to be in this discussion.

            And do you really wish to blame government for any epidemic?

            And this whole little thread started over someone questioning the need of the Fed.

            and yes, I heard about the uncertainty surrounding the swine flu. What ever you wish to call it, ~ it came a knocking at my families door and it was touch and go for many weeks, 24/7.

            and yes, people have always died in spite of all human efforts, Angel, we have always been a burying. My family came to Texas from Illinois by ox cart, burying the dead along the way.

            and yes, I rather people not suffer and die prematurely, particularly women with something as common as birthing children and I don’t mind a bit helping unprivileged mothers with my tax dollars. Just a 150 years ago it was not uncommon for a man of 45 to bury 2 or 3 wives, lost in birthing of children and women health related issues. We are a better nation then that today! or at least we need to be!

            And MOST OF ALL, ~ WE WOULDN’T BE CARRYING ON TODAY ABOUT MONEY MATTERS AND BEGRUDGING FELLOW AMERICAN CITIZENS IF IT WASN’T FOR THIS “GD” UNFUNDED 12 YEARS WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            We have poorly spent MONEY!!! for 12 long years !!!!

            Calling me and your fellow American “names” and demonizing everything the government does or has tried to do is not going to correct all of “OUR” problems!

            I’m a small independent 63 year old business person and government has kicked my ass 6 ways to Sunday for the last 30 years. I must still work, and fight everyday for what little I hold. People like myself are not your f cking problem. A 12 year unfunded war to no where is all Americans problem. Today,you choice to look on your fellow Americans as the problem and that make “YOU TOO” a part of this problem.

            Chances are good, at sometime in the past you supported this 12 year war and that makes you guilty of helping create this debacle we all must now endure. I’m not trying to make you feel guilt or rub your nose in it, but GD it! Cowboy up to the fact no country can spent money foolishly for 12 years and not seriously suffer the effects we see happening today!

            I’m fighting mad with this shameless behavior so many of you covey. I’ve had to cool off and control myself “often” ~ for I know my anger will not serve me or America this day.

          • DaveH

            You’re fighting mad, Bob Wire? How unusual, a violent Liberal.
            Did you miss this story?
            http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=2191

          • Kate8

            bob wire – If people don’t have the money to birth their children, then they don’t have the money to care for them, either. So that should be MY responsibility?

            How about, don’t start a family if you can’t afford it? That would be the sensible thing.

            But no, let’s all just practice free love and let someone else pay for the result, even if it’s to murder inconvenient children.

            The problem is, liberals encourage irresponsibility, and hold no one accountable for their choices. You all see people as entitled, indulgent free-spirits, little more than animals really…unable to control their urges (and see no reason to).

            Liberalism does nothing but degrade humanity.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            bob wire,
            I call it “YOUR” government because you always come to its defence lately!!! There are at least seven different diseases that have either reemerged or are more virulent or even brand new that come across that fricking southern border EVERY DAY!!!
            As far as spending out of control, it has been that way since at least the 50s or longer!!! The problem with it NOW is that Nobama is like Bush on steroids and is hooked on them AND spending!! Several well known shrinks have observed him and have said he is a narcisist and has an ego that shades the whole nation!!! Krauthammer on Fox is a shrink and could go back in practice tomorrow and he says it as well!! I fought for this country for eighteen months and HELL YES, this IS my country!!

      • JC

        So, in your mind we still have some hope that our present deficit is under control?
        It isn’t Denniso. There is no way it will ever be paid off. The money balloon is inflated nearly to capacity and straining now…
        “Billions” is a drop in in the bucket on the entire amount any way and I’m thinking that the White House should have it’s allowance suspended and go to its room until it can get passing grades.
        Americans are generally civilized and intelligent anyway, and can
        usually get things done without government holding their hand.

        • Thamera

          Oh but what is money JC? If you really care about people then money shouldn’t mean anything right? We should be more concerned about propping up the bottomless pit of welfare and entitlements. Who cares that they whole ship is about to go down…lol, except it really isn’t funny. I agree with you JC and would just add one more thing…Americans can “always” get things done “better” without government holding their hand :D

          • bob wire

            Hmm? I can think of some exception, Aids, swine flu to name just two.

            As for entitlement, could you label them so I might understand as this label is sub divided many times.

          • JC

            Bob, AIDS is a real problem…Swine Flu is a hoax.

          • bob wire

            Hmm? You might tell that to my sister-in-law, she was in the hospital 45 days, in ICU for 28 of them and 2 weeks worth of rehab to learn to walk again from what they called the swine flu.

            For 7 days they had her strapped into a rotisserie hospital bed that kept her turning over, round and round along with all the tubes and wires to prevent her for drowning on her own fluid. The bed alone cost 1,200.00 per day.

            She had went to work at the Dallas State fair and had work a concession for 6 days before she accepted the fact that she was seriously sick and died the next day in a hospital bed but they brought her back. Her heart and breathing stopped.

            It was a mess, my friend whatever you might call it.

          • JC

            Bob sorry about your sister.
            I guess I was thinking more in terms of calling it a “pandemic” after only 160 had died, as being a hoax.
            About 36,000 Americans die from plain old flu every year…The WHO doesn’t seem too concerned about that…

            I think it was just another excuse to push vaccinations.
            (that can’t possibly work)

          • Thamera

            Bob W. also sorry about your sister-n-law, but JC is right…160 people die and you would of thought that the world was ending while thousands upon thousands of people die from the flu each year; a former 15 year old student of mine in fact, just 2 years ago and nothing is said. I have very little trust in our govt. and even less trust in BIGPHARMA. Do you remember the scare over SARS? I do. I was at Disneyland during the hype when an Asian family whose daughter was wearing a mask was literally run out of the park because of the entire debacle called SARS. I was loathe to see it and disgusted that so many people are so maleable about every little thing that they hear without using reason or common sense or in this case even simple human kindness as they yelled at this family and ran from them as if they were lepers!

          • DaveH

            Yep, we’ve gone from a nation of rugged pioneers to a nation of whiny wimps in less than 300 years.

          • libertytrain

            I think the whiny wimps developed in the last 50-60 years and particularly the last 25-30 or so when they really expected gov to feed, clothe, pay for everything and wipe their butts.

          • http://deleted Claire

            DaveH and libertytrain– I agree. Everyone has had their share of hard knocks in their lifetime. A person just picks themselves up, and deals with it. My husband and I had our share when we were a lot younger. Early in our married life there was never “enough” money. Did we go on welfare? Did we get food stamps? No. We did what we had to do to “make it.” Now it is my husband’s health issues. Do we whine, moan and groan? Does he expect others to take care of him? No. My husband has never whined about his health issues. Some days he is so sick but he keeps going and never complains. I admire him for that. He is a tough guy. I think of all this and I could cry. Why did all of this happen to him? He has always been and still is a good honest person, and life can be very unfair, but we deal with it.

          • DaveH

            My heart goes out to you and your husband, Claire.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Gee bob,
            Let’s talk swine flu. If it is real and it came about as YOUR government wants us to believe, then it’s the FAULT of the government that it’s here!!! It came into this country by way of the sieve of a border we have with Mexico!!! If the border was sealed, we wouldn’t have gotten it, along with a reemergence of TB, more resistant strains of STDs, among others!!

          • libertytrain

            Claire – you already know that I greatly respect you and your family – :) You are one heck of an amazing person.

          • http://deleted Claire

            libertytrain–Bless your heart. You know I think very highly of you and your family. I count you as one of my dear friends. It is so good to have friends on this site, even though I don’t know their names or necessarily where they live.
            I just keep thinking–we are all in this together.

          • libertytrain

            Claire, you are certainly correct; we live far away and sometimes near however we all share this Country and what occurs in it and the power to group together and do what we can to preserve it.

        • Thamera

          I am sorry to hear about your husband Clair.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Claire,
            As usual my best to your husband and tell him he is still in our prayers nightly!!! God Bless you both!!

          • http://deleted Claire

            DaveH, Thamera, JoeH–I appreciate your kind thoughts.

  • http://com i41

    Thamera, Claire had to voted for Onumnutts and a democrap ticket. She beleives anything that is spewed out of the soros socialist democraps mouths and gets the tingles at the mention of the marxist muslims moron in Cheif. The soros socialists still defend and will support the marxist/communist pukes if the USA gets destroyed. We seen how dumbocraps actually feel about the troops that are fighting and wouldn’t get paid, but all the beltway jackwagons would get their over paid salaries. Since the democraps did not do the job they were elected to do for 2 years, onumnutts and all dems should be mot getting paid and fined for derilection of duty and failure to do the work of the people.

    • bob wire

      No! Claire thinks for herself and knows if you find a turd in your pants, it’s probably yours.

      • Denniso

        Good news! The economy won’t be further crippled by a gov’t shutdown. The Repubs are fighting over what amounts to essentially peanuts when looking at the total budget and trying to remake social policy by pretending that they are concerned about the money…planned parenthood,1/2 billion $$. Npr, 1/1000th of a billion. Total budget,3.7 trillion $$…that’s 3,700 billion $$.

        • Thamera

          LOL Denniso. Remake social policy? We could only WISH!

      • sherriww

        Bob Wire:You get it just fine too, that,while some members of BOTH parties are messing around,the republicans are out to SLASH&burn anyone not rich,and end EVERY last middle class family,make SURE all the” lower class”kids have little education,so only”their”kind will be able to run the country!There are ones I have heard say that Obama Never had to work a day!”My Lord,HE worked very hard,to get highly educated,become a lawyer,law professor,a U.S.Senator,and now President.On the other hand,ones like that ignorant con.Paul Ryan-I did not know until lately,that he is and always has been very wealthy!Having INHERITED it all from his grandfather,who started one of the big companies in Wisconsin! SO-he and his family NEVER HAVE TO WORRY,about food,rent,medical bills(especially when we pay for HIS healthcare,the VERY top GOVT.INS he doesn’t want US to have!He is a very” dangerous”man,to anyone who wishes to live even a little bit of a middle class life!

        • Thamera

          sip, sip, GULP! Keep drinking it all down Sherrie, I don’t hold out any hopes for you. Sad,sad,sad.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Thamera,
            Sip, Sip, gulp???? not since they invented the funnel!!!!

      • sherriww

        BW I want to mention one thing,that I know you already know.That is the fact that,while Bush KEPT THE WAR COST OFF THE BOOKS(which I Do Not see How that was allowed to sta-rt with)but,thereby it made our deficit LOOK SMALLER,to the public-when Obama got in there,HE had a Fit,said it was dishonest,and ordered the war cost put on the books immediately,which then showed the RIGHT amount,adding those Billions on to the deficit,that were there all along,but that Obama had not one damn thing to do with running up! IT IS AMAZING THIS STORY KEEPS BEING SWEPT UNDER THE RUG AND ONLY BROUGHT OUT ONCE IN A GREAT WHILE!

        • bob wire

          Well worth repeating ~ and yes I do believe people forget Sherry!

          “That is the fact that,while Bush KEPT THE WAR COST OFF THE BOOKS(which I Do Not see How that was allowed to start with)but,thereby it made our deficit LOOK SMALLER,”

          43 and company was “cooking the books”.

        • DaveH

          Even if your statement wasn’t conjecture, Sherri, two wrongs don’t make a right (well, maybe in Liberal minds).
          Please tell me how long does Obama need to be in office before you start expecting him to be responsible? I remember when Bush first took office and the economy had already started declining that the Liberals blamed him for that immediately. Well, it has been over two years now. When can we start blaming Obama?

      • Carlucci

        Very funny, bobw. I’ll have to remember that one.

    • http://deleted Claire

      i41–I voted for the person I wanted to vote for, the same way you did. Sorry to disappoint you, but there is no politician alive that has given me a tingle. Keep the “tingles” to yourself, you obviously need them.

  • Bert Cundle

    IN UNITRD STATES GOVERNMENT & MAJORITY… RIGHT is SILL A FETUS!

    • JC

      Bert, you might be easier to understand if you spoke in complete sentences. Maybe stop putting Scotch on your corn flakes too. :)

      • Carlucci

        Ok, now you really got me…LOL -!!

  • Tom Anderson

    Chip,

    I agree with you – without a proper Congressional Declaration of War, this adventure in Libya is unconstitutional and illegal. But WHY point the finger at Obama???

    The people who are carrying out his dastardly deeds are U.S. Servicemen. Yes, you can try to “cut off the head” of the serpent. But ONLY Congress can attack the POTUS. Why not uphold the concept of ACCOUNTABILITY and CRIMINALITY??? Hold those US Servicemen and officers who are executing this adventure to ACCOUNT for their unconstitutional murderous CRIMES??? Don’t pussy foot around. Condemn the Criminals!!! Murder is MURDER whether ordered by the POTUS or a mafia chieftain.

    Are you going to be like these other moral lepers who excuse and absolve our U.S. military for their Libyan murders by proclaiming, “but they were JUST FOLLOWING ORDERS”???

    Respond! I await your response.

    Tell me that our military MUST do whatever the POTUS tells them. I LOVE hypocrisy!

    Tell me, do you believe that the GREATEST threat to our Republican Liberty is the U.S. Military like Gen. Washington ( and Ike ) warned us??? Come on, don’t shirk the answer.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      tom anderson,
      What the hell are you?? Are you Nobummers long lost daddy??? Or maybe you’re his mommie??

      • http://naver samurai

        Maybe he’s the one Obama bin Laden has been seeing in “those” clubs in Chicago. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • chuckb

    boehner sold us down the river. the rinos win again. barry can go on vacation now, the repub. congress did nothing except put on a show and let the bolsheviks make political hay.

    tom anderson: you keep referring to ike and put him in the same category as washington. please read the book “the politician” and see if ike deserves all the credit you bestow upon him. he certainly was never a george washington. and barry soetoro is the one to blame for libya, he as commander in chief sent our aircraft into libya, a very bad mistake.

  • Ridge Runner

    I think these thiving lying liberal socialists(communists)have done the the country mpre harm than any one.Most of these people are in the democratic party but there are some also in the republican party. The stealing was started when the demos were in charge of the senate and the congress wich they had for 45 years.they are the ones that transfered the social security money to the general fund and they started to steal it to fund their pork barrel projects at home and to buy their reelection.they haye created so many entitlement programs that the government cant payt for them.They have taxed and regulated the manufacturing out of business.these people had no choice but to move or go bankrupt.I have heard too many people say that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Most of the people don’t realize that the government is indirectly the cause of this.any one that is in business has to make a profit or go broke.If the government adds a tax or raises a tax on the manufacturer then he has to pass it on to the consumer.So you should be able to see that it is the government is realy what is the problem.the big money men that is controling the money world wide is the ones that are realy controling every thing.I read an article in a magazine almost 60 years ago and the writer said they were trying to impliment a one world government. I thought he was an idiot but these people are proving him right that is what is being done now. It has been dubed the new world orderand if they sucede You probably will wind up with nothingand you just might not exist.To many people in the these elites have said that we need to get rid of at least 4 to 5,000,000,000 people from the planet.If it is a communists government as i belive it will be the people of no importance to these elites wont have much to live on if they are allowed to live.If they don’t take your land holdings out right they will just make your taxes high that you can’t pay and take it away.the zombies had better wake up and stop it or it is all over.these lying thiving politicans are these all of them both partys are why these liberal entitleist are all say eat the rich and these so called rich are where these thiving politicans go to for donations .I guess you can see it is just a circle jerk

  • Ridge Runner

    I don’t think it will happen but the people need to make the tough decisons and shut this out of control government down and abolish about 75% of the people that are in washington d.c.There needs to be a lot of regulations removed and most of the burorats removed and a lot salrys cut.The people have been asleep for far too long.Its time to wake the zombies and get them motivated to save our country.GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND GET GOING.As the english say time to get crackingGO.

  • Bert Cundle

    Well… Chyarley Manson has been in prisonon for 40 Yrs. Acused of ordering Murders, Why isn’t BUSH Sr. / Jr. Doing any time?

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Bert,
      For the same reason that NOBMMER isn’t!!! he is ordering what YOU call murders right NOW!!!

  • http://deleted Claire

    I am pleased the government did not shut down. At this point in time, the main thing I was concerned about was the military and their families. They have sacrificed more than most of us.

  • jopa

    It was really nice to wake up this morning and find out our government was still running.I have plenty of friends and relatives serving in the military today and I know that most live from paycheck to paycheck. It would be nice if our military had a complete overhaul and closed down many of the unnecessary bases around the world and used the savings to improve the livelihoods of the service men and women.The housing and many bases remind me of low income housing and our troops deserve better.

    • libertytrain

      re your: “The housing and many bases remind me of low income housing and our troops deserve better.”

      I would love to know which army posts you are talking about as far as low income housing goes? I’ve been on many, many, many posts in this country during the last 12 years and the only folks who had what could possibly be considered low income looking housing on the posts I visited, are the officers – the enlisted staff and their families have been the first to get some beautiful new housing in this country on Post -

    • libertytrain

      Another thing you ought to do some research on is who is now responsible for housing on Post. Have at it.

  • DaveH

    Note that Democrats have presided over most of the major conflicts that we have become embroiled in, yet most people are under the mistaken impression that it is the Republicans who are the war mongers.
    Note that Democrats were responsible for passing the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Note that the Democrats’ excuse for passing the Federal Reserve Act was to control the economic collapse and to “protect” the public from the “Monied Trust”. Ten years later we suffered the biggest and longest economic collapse of our country’s history. Some “protection”.
    Note also that the Democrats always blame the Republicans no matter what mess we are in while they’re in power. Isn’t it about time we start electing people who can accept responsibility for their actions?

    • Mick

      DaveH says:
      April 9, 2011 at 9:52 am
      Note that Democrats have presided over most of the major conflicts that we have become embroiled in, yet most people are under the mistaken impression that it is the Republicans who are the war mongers.
      Note that Democrats were responsible for passing the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Note that the Democrats’ excuse for passing the Federal Reserve Act was to control the economic collapse and to “protect” the public from the “Monied Trust”. Ten years later we suffered the biggest and longest economic collapse of our country’s history. Some “protection”.
      Note also that the Democrats always blame the Republicans no matter what mess we are in while they’re in power. Isn’t it about time we start electing people who can accept responsibility for their actions?

      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      DaveH …..EXACTLY………For being a country of so well educated people according to the lefties we sure have many dumb as hell, they can’t figure out the simple concept that when you spend more than you take in you’re in debt and evantually will go broke……….
      The Democrats are the party of futile spending so anyone voting fo them have no intention of refurbishing the sad state of our country……
      Tighen your belt folks it’s going to be a rough ride……….

  • The Insurgent

    Even a symbolic protest against the Obama regime, technically allowed under the First Amendment, has been criminalized in Obama’s America. A recent news article reports: “Campus police at the University of Kentucky are investigating two incidents in which a sign was hung that used a racial slur to refer to President Barack Obama. Police spokesman Jay Blanton says a professor found the first one on March 15 hanging on a door to the UK School of Law and turned it in. A law student found another sign Thursday on a bus shelter. Blanton says campus police could charge whoever posted the signs with third-degree criminal mischief.”
    Now how is an easily removed sign “criminal mischief”? Someone had an opinion and they expressed it by placing a sign out in public. Whoever placed the sign apparently knew how the liberal university authorities would react, but they did it anyway, perhaps just to show a little defiance.

    We are not told what the “racial slur” on these forbidden campus signs is. It may have been the N-word or perhaps Obama was likened to some tree-dwelling primate. In any case, the idea of “criminally investigating” anyone for simply using a word is exactly what is NOT supposed to happen in America. It’s like the old joke about Soviet Russia having “freedom of speech” while America had both freedom of speech and freedom after the speech.

    Our freedom of speech is gradually being taken away from us. Notice that Blacks have become so special and protected that even uttering an unflattering slang term is considered socially unacceptable. White people need to have the courage to talk about racial differences and the consequences that result from White people being replaced by Third World people in our own homelands.

    IMPEACH NObama NOW! Deport him back to Kenya.

    • sherriww

      Insurgent:Do you know how really ignorant that post makes you sound? Racial slurs are pretty much frowned on,or illegal,these days,and should be if we can’t control ourselves better than that! And,I don’t care WHICH President is in office,being openly disrespectful to the President should NOT be allowed.Quite a few folks that have been so bad to this. president SHOULD be in jail right now-including a few congressional people!The fact that you can put a statement like that last line or so in a public paper,and still be free to walk around tells you how lucky you are,in being in this free country-in many countries,a story like that and they would hunt you down,never to be seen again-so let’s not complain about how” bad”we have it here,and let’s respect our president as well.

      • DaveH

        Do you know how ignorant that statement makes you sound, Sherriww?
        He’s talking about the 1st Amendment. It guarantees us the Freedom of Speech. There are no qualifiers as to whether or not that speech is socially acceptable:
        http://www.cato.org/constitution/amendments_en.html

        • DaveH

          And if you really believe what you say, Sherriww, you might want to give that lecture to this guy:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p50qHzC01E0

        • sherriww

          @DH:freedom of speech is fine.it also comes with RESPONSIBILITY-to your self and to others.And,it does not guarantee you the right to say anything you please,in regard to to the POTUS,no matter Who is president,be his name Reagan,Obama,or jones.Saying and doing certin things,will,and should,get you arrested,Aside from that,there is common decency AND possibly the chance to really make our live better,if we try to LEARN,as well as say our opinions.Yesterday,I just happened to have some business with a gal who turned out to be a tea partier(I had never met one),and we got to talking politics.She said”oh golly,maybe we shouldn’t talk about this”.I said”of course we should;maybe we will teach each other something”,and we ended up laughing and talking fine even if we don’t agree on everything,which is what we All need to do,especially the people in Wash.D.C.or things will go completely to hell for us all,while the Big Money boys make off with it all,while we are arguing,and that IS their plan,sure enough!

          • DaveH

            Did you watch the video? Your kind in action.

          • DaveH

            If it doesn’t guarantee the right to say what we please, Sherri, then who makes the determination of what we can or can’t say? You? Me? Obama?
            I sure don’t want an ignorant person who calls other people ignorant making the decisions about what I can or can’t say. And if you don’t realize how easily people could rationalize any kind of speech restraints if it is to their benefit, then to call you ignorant would be an insult to ignorant people. Speech restraints are the main tools of dictators.
            But besides that, we are guaranteed by the main law of the land, The Constitution, to be able to say whatever we want, Sherri, whether or not you approve. If you don’t like that, then you are going to have to muster enough people together to change the Constitution legally. Until then, you and your kind are breaking the law.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            sherri,
            I noticed you didn’t say Reagan, Obama or BUSH???? Perhaps it was a freudian slip???

      • Thamera

        “how lucky he is?” Sherrie…seriously? What world do you espouse…wait I already know the answer…a utopia…no freedom of speech allowed and where we all live the same middle class life in servitude to our government who will be taking care of us from the “cradle to our graves”…I think you are intoxicated…what exactly are they putting in your punch>?

        • Carlucci

          sherrie lives in ww.sherrie.world. Either that, or she’s pouring scotch on her cornflakes…LOL -!!

        • sherriww

          Thamera:we been over this before.There is NOTHING wrong with EXPECTING to live at Least a Middle Class life,if you work very hard for 40/50Yrs! And,as you pay into a retirement plan called soc.security,and a health plan called medicare,each week,and will still have to pay big bucks for your Medicare&medicine,at the end of that 50Yrs,you have a RIGHT TO THEN COLLECT THE MONEY U HAVE PUT INTO IT,SAME AS ANY OTHER RETIREMENT,no difference.I worked very hard for 36Yrs,until I got sick,and learned what a blessing it was that. I HAD worked so hard,and all mens jobs.While raising 6Children after their father got cancer,at age 27.I read a lot where folks keep sayin SSI”,when they refer to social security,and that IS different.If you get anyS SI,along with your soc.sec.,THAT part IS A TYPE OF” welfare check,given because you did not work enough to get much soc.security,however that is something we do to make sure all folks eat,etc.I worked hard enough to pay for my own SS check,but I do not mind paying to help those less fortunate.

          • Thamera

            Helloooo —–Sherrie….is someone disagreeing with you about social security? I don’t know what you are talking about…do you????

          • Thamera

            P.S. you better pray that Obamacare is repealed Sherrie because at the end of the day, you are going to be paying even more…

          • DaveH

            You don’t even know who that money is going to. Few of us do. So, you don’t know if they are misfortunate, or if they created their own problems. But if you want to donate your own money recklessly, more power to you. However, when you donate our money, against our will, that is just plain theft, no matter how you rationalize it.
            So, don’t try to take the moral highground on us, because you aren’t.

          • sherriww

            T. That’s the point.Nobody has to argue about anything,in order to inform some folks who may not know how things work until they need it.AND I DISAGREE-highly-about the new Health Care Law. I been PRAYING for that donut hole to get closed in Medicare,because without it we will NEVER be able to buy our meds,which is why I been staying on BCBS,but that will not be an option after this year,and without getting BC thru an employer,it would be no option either.Right now,for two of us,it will cost us aprox, $13,000 A year out of soc sec,for Medicare and medicine. Our doctor said most folks don’t even GET that much SS a year!The new HC law will close that and bring down the cost in Medicare each year,and then in all health care since the. Law is going to require bidding for low cost,first in Medicare,then in all the insurance by 2014

          • DaveH

            Do you really believe that adding a large contingent of Government bureaucrats, with their protected jobs, who not only will meddle in our choices but cost us extra money, is going to give us access to better healthcare? Cuba promised that to their people also 50 years ago. Promises. How easy for career politicians who don’t have to suffer the misery that they create for their ignorant constituents.
            Only economically illiterate people can imagine that adding more middlemen to the medical industry is going to somehow cost us less.

            For some reality on the effects of Big Government (sorry, hopers and dreamers) see this chart of countries ranked by the size of their Governments and tell me honestly that you would want to emigrate to one of those on the bottom of the list (Biggest Governments):
            http://heritage.org/index/Ranking

          • bob wire

            “P.S. you better pray that Obamacare is repealed Sherrie because at the end of the day, you are going to be paying even more”

            That health care cost has risen 300% in 20 years, you seem to suggest it cost might stay the same or take a downward tend if nothing was done????

            I think that you are dreaming my gullible friend.

            Health care cost has exceed the reach of the working poor and a large portion of the lower middle class to when emergency room care (the most expensive care) has became America’s primary health care provider and you don’t see a problem?

            That the cost of the average major medical policy for a family of four can exceed the cost of $650.00 per. month or $ 7,800.00 per year or consumed 25% of a yearly income of 32,000.00 ~ you don’t see a problem?

            Or that tax revenues collected for the working poor and the self employed is used to help subside and lower the health care cost of better employed American’s that work for blue chip companies, ~ you don’t see a problem?

            We are discussing who lives and who die here and while everyone’s death is inevitable and I too stare death in the face, you and your corporate friends are not going to f’uc=k me to death before I die with cheaper policies not worth the paper they are written on and disclaimers.

            If there is a better way ~ I’m all ears my dear friend, lets hear it.

            I’m already a dead man, it’s too late for me but I do hold concerns for those that follow and for the many millions of Americans like myself that never held a quality job with all the many perks and holidays, left to create my own job(s) and not privileged to the perks of the collective and “group coverage”

          • DaveH

            Interesting. Bob Wire says health care costs have risen 300% in 20 years. Okay, rather than bothering to check his figures, let’s assume he’s right.
            In 1990 Government Spending on Health was about 11% of the budget. In 2010 Government Spending on Health was about 18% of the budget. So Government’s involvement in health care has increased almost 70% in those 20 years. Yet, Bob claims our health care problems have gotten worse. An intelligent person might ponder “hmmm, we increased Government and health care got worse, could it be that Bigger Government is causing our problem?”. Not Bob, he wants to plunge ahead and pour more gasoline on that fire.

          • Thamera

            Bob W. It is a serious problem. At one time my family was paying $800 a month for health insurance. It was too much so I found a co-op that we joined. For my family of 7 it went from $800 a month to $165 a month. To me that is still a lot, but it is necessary. So I agree, health care is a serious problem, but I don’t agree that further govt. intrusion and regulation is the answer. When govt. gets involved you can bet that the price of care is going to go up and the quality of care is going to go down. It is inevitable as the govt. basically puts a “chokehold” on the doctors who provide our services! Just ask folks on medicaid about their “choice” of treatment and medical care. They virtually have NONE because some bureaucrat is over-riding their doctors decisions!! This was illustrated to me very well when I lived in Denmark. The family I lived with were in the medical care system. They are very unhappy with their entire system because of the fact I already state above: That when the govt. puts a strangle hold on the care providers; cost will increase, and quality of care will decrease. It has already happened with my FLEX plan account. Because of the health care reform act I can no longer buy over the counter meds. Now the govt., in their infinite wisdom has decided that if I want to buy Excedrin for migraine, which helps me a lot, I have to go to the doctor first and get a prescription for it! And that is just ONE example of driving up health care costs! Why should I have to spend money to go to the doctor to buy an OTC? The answer: I SHOULDN’T!!!

          • DaveH

            Feed me, Clothe me, Shelter me. Wah! I don’t care whose unwilling shoulders I have to ride on. Just take care of me. Wah!
            I feel like I’m attending nursery school again.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Thamera,
            not to be nosy, but what is the name of that co-op? I have a daughter that is going to need insurance as soon as she graduates from college and it sounds pretty good if it covers anything.

        • sherriww

          T. For the past 10Yrs,I have looked after a mans business,because his elderly mother and I were friends.This man got sick so young that he only qualified for about$ 400Per month,from his own soc sec,and he gets an extra $110 A month from ski,not much, but enough to buy some food(I don’t have him on food stamps bcuz I found I could manage his living without-barely! I move him out of a nursing home,into a govt subsidized apt,with county nursing help coming in,becuz he is nearly helpless.BUT he is MUCH happier&better off OUT of the N.Home,but he has to have that net and nursing help paid for,by the Govt.or he could not be out.Yes,it costs,but. The at-home care&rent are about$ 1500 per mo.from the govt verses 4000 A mo for the nursing home.”Now,which Deal is best for him AND the taxpayers? What many really don’t know(I DIDN’T)is that people are getting sick more&more in their 50s now,and most WILL need that help themselves!The OTHER THING that younger people don’t know,is,if there is no federal help,there will NOT be enough from the states to pay for, say your parents care in a nursing home,and if there is not enough between your parents SS check and govt.pay,nearly every state sends YOU the remainder. To pay each month,and you are legally responsible for your close relatives bill!Be MUCH better to make sure enough tax money is combing in to let the federal govt keep paying these things,so that you pay a little tax money,at a time,and NOT get hit with your own,or a parents,or child’s care,that wipes you out all at once.I was HAPPY when IL.raised taxes,so that maybe this man and all others will keep their care

          • Thamera

            OMG…enuf said…you Sherrie are the queen of fools and wear the jesters crown, otherwise known as a “useful idiot.”

          • libertytrain

            Thamera – I was having a heck of a time trying to figure out that one myself.

          • sherriww

            Well T. Girl,I really don’t get into calling names,but if you or your family gets sick or hurt,let me know how all that works out for you dear.Take care now!

          • http://deleted Claire

            Yes, Illinois raised their taxes. The taxes were raised because of the corrupt Republican and Democrat administrations that pilfered money away. Only God knows where it all went and God only knows where the increased tax money will go. Illinois governors have a chronic history of getting into trouble with the law. Corruption big time and the residents of Illinois have to pay up to get the state out of yet another jam. This is a continuous cycle that will never end. The problem is now Caterpillar may leave. If they do, that is 25,000 jobs that will be lost. If Caterpillar leaves, my daughter will be out of a job and Decatur, Illinois is already a depressed community. Another business near the Wisconsin/Illinois border moved to Wisconsin. In the Springfield paper, there has been numerous full-page ads from other states inviting Illinois businesses to come to their state where they will treated fairly. My son is an engineer with IDOT and he is working like a dog trying to get road projects completed while they still have the money. Once the money that was allotted is gone, who knows if there will be any more.
            Springfield has hundreds of department stores, and the local government thinks they are “creating jobs.” These stores hire teenagers. The work is part-time with no benefits. A person would have to work at 2 or 3 of these stores on a daily basis to make ends meet. It appears they do not “allow” factories or any type of industry, just stores. Sorry folks, I guess I am whining, I don’t mean to, just stating facts. Illinois has sunk to the lowest of low.

          • Thamera

            Sherri it’s called planning…life insurance, long-term health insurance, sacrifice, family, church and charities…little things like that but hey when the govt will step in with other people’s money and take care of all of that for you, why should you do it any other way, right? But thanks for the well wishes. I would expound, but it isn’t worth it. Illinois, like Clair has illustrated, is in a world of hurt and your solution? Keep raising taxes! Yep, that’s the answer. good grief. btw: I sincerely hope for your sake and many others that the “health care reform act” will be repealed.

          • DaveH

            Sherrie,
            We’re all going to die some day. The difference between you and I? I will die proudly knowing that I didn’t force unwilling people to carry my sorry butt.

          • bob wire

            “I didn’t force unwilling people to carry my sorry butt.”

            Well Jeremiah Johnson, I think that you are affording yourself a lot of credit, while discounting the efforts of others.

            While You do project this sanctimonious position often, I know that, no man is an island unto himself and if it wasn’t for the effort of fellow American you would hold a much more humble demure about yourself and your many achievements.

          • DaveH

            Uh, Bob, I didn’t say I was an island, did I?
            I’m talking about voluntary servitude as opposed to involuntary servitude. Get it?

        • sherriww

          10Yrs,I have looked after a mans business,because his elderly mother and I were friends.This man got sick so young that he only qualified for about$ 400Per month,from his own soc sec,and he gets an extra $110 A month from ski,not much, but enough to buy some food(I don’t have him on food stamps bcuz I found I could manage his living without-barely! I move him out of a nursing home,into a govt subsidized apt,with county nursing help coming in,becuz he is nearly helpless.BUT he is MUCH happier&better off OUT of the N.Home,but he has to have that net and nursing help paid for,by the Govt.or he could not be out.Yes,it costs,but. The at-home care&rent are about$ 1500 per mo.from the govt verses 4000 A mo for the nursing home.”Now,which Deal is best for him AND the taxpayers? What many really don’t know(I DIDN’T)is that people are getting sick more&more in their 50s now,and most WILL need that help themselves!The OTHER THING that younger people don’t know,is,if there is no federal help,there will NOT be enough from the states to pay for, say your parents care in a nursing home,and if there is not enough between your parents SS check and govt.pay,nearly every state sends YOU the remainder. To pay each month,and you are legally responsible for your close relatives bill!Be MUCH better to make sure enough tax money is combing I

          IL.raised taxes,so that maybe this man and all others will keep their care

  • jopa

    Insurgent: Sounds to me like you are guessing what was written on the signs.I can only guess too and if it was a threat against our President then the police and the Feds get involved.A co-worker of mine years ago was overheard in a bar making threats against Ronald Reagan because of a lapse in his military disability.All of a sudden he disappeared for a few weeks and came back a totally different person.What one calls mischief another may think and they do take it more seriously.So you have no new loss of freedom. just ignorance on your part.

  • http://com i41

    The dumbocraps showed their true colors, when not voting for paying the military, while the bloated bastards would get their paychecks. The dems and Onumnutts never created a budget for 2 years, so this year’s budget is already half over. This niggardly created bs bill will not accomplish a damn thing. Listening to the crossbred marxist muslim flapping those purple lips, about the historic spending cuts, what crap, what about the run away spending that the dems own and created in 2 years. Bert, bobwire and claire, Claire I would have guessed you voted for you wanted to, we hope since it is a right. You don’t get tingles for Onumnutts, do you neurophathy since you buy all the democrat bs and beleive it is fact. Bob wire , there is accesoories for people with medical prblems like you have of messing your pants, in fact there is some government program for you. If the shut down would have happened citizens would find out how many worthless dorks are getting paid to do nothing worthwhile.We all know any dumbocrat is totally worthless and still don’t worry about their wasreful spending has caused damage to everything in this country.

    • bob wire

      That’s Right! I didn’t vote for McSame if that’s what you mean i41 and the only tingly feeling I get is beholding beautiful women and children that confirm to me what ta hell I’m fighting with the rest of the world for.

      I don’t regret not voting for McSame and someways ~ not completely happy with the current Administration but I balances my unhappiness with knowing that it took 5 years to pull out of Nam and never has there been a President that didn’t enjoy a brief romance period by the opposing party affiliations until “O” took office and he’s been opposed and attacked from day one on ALL MATTERS. I think that we all know the reason for this anomaly.

      Or that “numb-nuts” want to offer Reagan credit for Bill Clinton’s good economy while they refuse to give “O” 18 months much less 8 years to turn a failing US economy around.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        bob wire,
        you get a “tingly” feeling for CHILDREN???????????????????????????

        • http://naver samurai

          You mean like Michael Jackson used to get? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    You people just don`t get it . <,Transform America and Spread The
    Wealth. Make us all damn poor and take the Riches money,the only
    people who has ever given me a job. Where the hell do you people
    think your going to get a job and where do you think the goverment
    is going to get the money to take care your stupid asses? The 38
    billion that was cut from Obamas Budget last night is all borrowed. I wish you people would get your head out of your asses and learn something.

    • bob wire

      Well Charles, wealth transfer is and has been a forever endeavor and not anything new.

      In the recent 30 years this transfer accounts for 400 American families now owning 60 % of America’s wealth.

      So at this point in time I can’t help but feel someone with some balls speaking out about “Wealth Transfer” is a healthy thing.

      Or you can stick you head back in the sand, with your butt in the air and pretend this disproportionate transfer is somehow a good thing for all of Americans.

      • Thamera

        bob w. please what are you talking about? Why do you think we are in the mess we are in? I’m not wealthy, yet the government has no problem taking a good chunk of my income to redistribute around as they see fit…

      • DaveH

        How many of those people accumulated that wealth by voluntary contracts and how many accumulated that wealth with the aid of Big Government (Crony Capitalism)? That’s the difference. If they accumulated any of it fraudulently, that should indeed be adjucated in court. If they accumulated any of it with the aid of Big Government anti-competitive regulations or subsidies, that is indeed a problem. But that problem can’t be addressed with even Bigger Government (As Government Grows, Corruption Flows). The only way that problem can be effectively addressed is to shrink Government involvement in the Marketplace. Give the power of choice back to the consumer. Let the companies that produce the most desirable goods and services prosper. Let the others fail. Put those Government regulators back to doing productive work and get them off the taxpayers’ payroll.

        • Thamera

          Yes indeed DaveH! It is such a simple concept! In fact you summed it up very well in one line: “As government grows, corruption flows”…

          • http://?? Joe H.

            DaveH,
            I think it’s time to add a line to that. “As corruption flows, your money GOES!”

          • bob wire

            A 12 year unfunded war and war profiteering will do exactly what you are complaining about! Why not address the problem of the body instead of the whole body?

            With such statements offered above to demonize government, am I to defend government in parcel and sum?

            We went threw 8 years of Government being poorly administrated to on many levels, from a “rubber stamp” US Attorney Generals office, a blinded and hobbled Securities and Exchange office, a Shadow Vice President that meddled in affairs in National Security with self serving interest and most of his work was done “under the table” having “zero” transparency. We had president that for all practical purposes was more of a front man for a Political Machine and fulfilled the day to day obligations of a sitting president. The meetings, the greetings, the pressing of the flesh and kissing babies. He was the “decider” and basically lead by the nose by his handlers to make decision.

            I have little question in my mind that all the thieves of Capital Hill and the Special Interest they served truly did enjoy this 8 year arrangement! They made a lot of money for themselves and their friends.

            That administration is now gone! Bubba’s playhouse has been decommissioned and dissolved.

            Sadly, it is true many of the old players that helped and took part in all of this “theft” is still in place and holding down their elected jobs.

            The decision was made early to not go after Bubba’s Play house when the present Administration entered office. Charges could have been filed and perused, but the health of the state of the union itself seemed to hang in the balance and national attention was directed elsewhere.

            I personally believe this sense of urgency was actually orchestrated and contrived by the very people that would find themselves compromised with an oversight investigation and looming indictments that would surly follow.

            So ~ here we are 2 1/2 years later and you are demonizing all government!

            Well? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ you are many many years late to wake up!

            The bagman went out the back door years ago.

            Yes ! we have been stolen from!

            So now we are to turn and reclaim government by demonizing public workers, 5 million women that use government subsidized services and anything the current administration might consider as a correction.

            And you actually expect my support with your efforts?

  • jopa

    libertytrain: Housing for the military varies on a large scale determined by the branch of service and a soldiers rank.They do not all live in palaces as you imply.There are still many dormitories and barracks out there.Do some research.

    • libertytrain

      jopa dormitories and barracks are not for enlisted with families, perhaps single enlistees and or some single officers; and those newly enlisted, enlisted or officers in training or in a special training school – like jump school as an example. Do some research – go on a Post or a base. Check it out. I’ve been on Army, Air Force Bases, Marine Bases several times a year for the last 12 years, usually spending the night/s or even weeks at a time. Have you?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        libertytrain,
        I used to live in barracks right across the street from those jump towers at Benning!!! Wooden barracks that they said were built during the second world war and they would burn to the ground in less than 20 minutes!!! Also across the other street from them was the MP barracks. they “raided those barracks and found more drugs than any other company on post!!! How strange!!! 1971!!!!

        • libertytrain

          I was at Ft. Benning two summers ago for a few days when my girl was in jump school. They had her in the hotel on post during her three weeks. It is an interesting place and I’m sure somewhat “improved” since your last visit there. http://www.army.mil/info/organization/benning/

    • libertytrain

      Jopa — While as a typical leftist lib, you needed to state that I implied palaces. I did not. I did say that the enlistees/soldiers and their families are getting the new housing before the officers and have for the last twelve years that I have visited and spent time on post, base, whatever you need to call them. I will say the new housing on all were really very nice and looked like beautiful suburbs rather than what you imply. Whether these soldiers keep the places looking as nice as they were when and as they are being built, I can’t answer.

  • jopa

    Wow looks like i41 and Charles were out drinking together again last night.Hangovers suck don’t they!!

    • Thamera

      Well Jopa, you might answer the question….where is the money going to come from????

  • chuckb

    it looks like the bolsheviks did it to the repubs again with the military pay. when are we going to get people with enough political competence and courage to call them on their chicanery. they were the ones refusing to sign a resolution allowing the troops to get paid, the repubs run, hide and scream foul then give in, remember newt? he did the same thing, in fact he hid out for three or four days he was so scared.
    we should shut the government down and shut down some of our worthless agencies like the epa, energy and educ. dept. run the biggest part of these free loading politicians out of town include the one they call president. the most incompetent to ever set in the white house.

    • Thamera

      so true Chuckb…the dems had two years in control of congress with Obama as their “fearless” leader and decide to “play politics” instead of passing a budget all in the hopes of getting the upper hand in 2012 and again the GOP just lets them “have at it”. I will give the dems this: they hold all the cards and know how to play them: The race card, the poverty card, the kill the mothers and children card, the environment card…we can only hope that one day this “house of cards” will all come crashing down before we do indeed live in the world that they have planned for us…sure worked well in Russia now didn’t it? LMAO!

      • Thamera

        Oh, I forgot…”starve the military card”…

  • http://deleted Claire

    i41–So now I am a liberal. You have a right to believe what you want. I KNOW what I am and I KNOW what I believe in. I do not cater to anyone or anything. Your opinion of me does not upset me in the least. You are wasting your time trying to trash me, go find someone else to vent your spleen on.

    • JC

      If you are…tell em you’re a Constitutionalist.
      Usually baffles them. ;)

      • http://deleted Claire

        JC– Clever! I’ll do that!! lol

        • DaveH

          Better yet, read this free online book. It will change the way you think forever:
          http://mises.org/books/newliberty.pdf

          • http://deleted Claire

            DaveH– Thank you, I will definitely read it and let you know what I think.

  • Lewis Munn

    That is because He was not born in a Hospital, but in a Manger in a Stable he built himself!! With government funds.

  • rkz777

    The crap in Egypt was started and funded by the cia and the same in libya. cia is assisting the radical muslim brotherhood into power, for they can’t have control with the self made dictator in power. those muslim thugs you see on the streets were fired up by cia supported factions, cia uses foreign radical forces to work their programs. anyone who knows anything will know this. watch for further evidence indicating this truth.

    • bob wire

      I’m getting that too! There is plans afoot! Plans inside of plans that we are not privileged too! If we were, things would make more sense but then the plans now known would then ~ surly fail.

      make sense? I didn’t think so. Oh well. ~ We are left to only watch and protest.

      • Allen in reality

        It is so good that so many Americans are waking up to what
        the Globalists are doing to our citizens and how they continue
        to rip off our savings/retirement to fund their illegal wars and
        pad the palms of the politicians through Avenue K in DC. Time
        to get massive recalls started and fire those Demopublicans, Rinos
        and Repulicrats. Those are the puppets of the NWO.

  • DaveH

    How many times have the Liberals/Progressives argued with us about how peaceful they are, and how violent we are?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZroM5Y2I0w&feature=player_embedded#at=82

    • bob wire

      No , that’s an illusion that you carry, just another “package” that you have bought and brought home. Tree hugger,fairy, pink-o, ~ mindless drivel Type A personalities enjoy throwing about to feel lofty and mighty.

      The human neck cannot tell the different between a right boot and a left boot.

      • DaveH

        Bob, do you even read my comments?
        If you did, you’d know that I consider there to be Liberals on both the right, and the left. Anybody who advocates Big Government is a Liberal in my book. It just happens that more Democrats like Big Government than do most Republicans.

        • bob wire

          Thanks for sharing that Dave, and no I didn’t know that about you.

          now if you can help me understand your ideas about what constitutes “big” government I might be more inclined to understand where you are coming from.

          As the word “BIG” does little to truly explain government or it’s nature.

          I enjoyed watching a PBS broadcast on Jefferson Davis this weekend and thought of you. ~ Jeff held serious convictions for “states rights” as you seem to. ~ Today , that battle has now been wages and for the better or worst of it, it is what it is today.

          Government? Large Fed and small state or Large State and small fed?

          To prune off a 150 years of growth, could be seen as a good thing if the conditions are right I suppose.

          Do you truly believe the conditions are right today for the Fed to down size. Do you feel the state has the resources or can acquire the resources to pick up the slack or do you feel the state shouldn’t or wouldn’t see this as an opportunity to claim only more dominion?

          To exchange one distant Tax master for a local Tax master that can have someone drive by your house everyday? To inspect your garbage and make sure your car is not parked on the grass, to make sure any changes in your property conforms to city code and you have pulled the appropriate city permits?

          It was my experience back in the 80″ when RR did in-fact do as he said he would, reduce the size of the FED (“get the Federal Government off the peoples backs”) with deregulation of banks and industry and military base closings and consolidation. Down Sizing became the “Catch Phrase” of the decade.

          This abrupt change shifted power and wealth distribution that had been in place for 75 years, where cities and towns had grown and thrives were laid to waste while the state governments grew and like vultures swooped in a taxed and regulating even more the the FED! Mom & Pop business were forced out of business, the state went thu it’s citizenry like Grant went through Richmond, cleaning house a stack furniture, regulating and a robbing.

          The end results of all this chance may well have benefited some but what truly came under attack the most was middle class Americans discretionary spending as they traded one tax masters for a meaner more vigilant and greedy tax master.

          So, forgive me David for harboring reservation with notions of the size of government as I’ve been fooled before with words that sounded good to hear and went so far as to championed their banner.

          I will not be so simple minded anymore.

          • Denniso

            Big government is a meaningless term that the right has thrown around for decades,while doing what Reagan actually did,which was to grow gov’t and tripple the debt. ‘Big’ in relation to what? To the size of Mexico’s gov’t? Bangladesh? I have yet to hear a Repub leader who wants to downsize gov’t call for major cuts to defense spending,which is one of the largest slices of the budget and has grown way beyond inflation for 40 yrs. What the Repubs are really doing is trying to remake gov’t in the model they prefer…high military spending,more prisons,less for public education and more money for religious and private schools,more money directed to private contractors like Haliburton,less money for clean air and water, and on and on.

            We have the largest economy in the world and one of the largest land masses as well…how large a gov’t does it take to adminster,defend,and regulate it? That’s a debatable question and one that does not fit simplistic cliches and mantras.

  • DaveH

    Eddie earlier was asking why the Libertarians didn’t have more widespread acceptance. I told him most of the MSM does their best to exclude them. Here is some proof of that from Newsmax. Take a look at question 3 on their poll. See anybody missing?
    http://www.newsmax.com/surveys/DonaldTrump/Donald-Trump-for-President-/id/11/kw/default?PROMO_CODE=BF7D-1

    • DaveH

      Where’s Ron Paul? He only trounced the other candidates at the Conservative Political Action Conference. That’s not good enough to get him a place on the list? What a joke:
      http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/12/ron-paul-wins-presidential-straw-poll-cpac/

      • DaveH

        Give up on the Republicans, Folks, they aren’t going to get the job done.

        • bob wire

          You assumed that they might? Sorry ~ but not even with a super majority in both houses. The GOP likes things as they are, ` Thank You very much and has plans to keeping it that way with any illusion they can create.

          They have the democrats to blame and that seems to work very well for them.

          • http://deleted Claire

            bob wire: I hear more and more people lambasting both parties. In my circle of friends, family, and others, it seems they are aggravated with the Republicans as well as the Democrats. Perhaps Americans (more than we know) are becoming disillusioned with all of them. The drama that was played out for the past week and will be played out again by Thursday is getting old. The fact remains that all administrations have contributed towards the problems that are plaguing America.

          • Denniso

            DaveH blames the media for the low profile of the Libertarian party…is that also the reason that we have a tiny Socialist and Communist party? It’s the media’s fault?

            The reason the Libertarian party is tiny is that most people recognize that it is nothing more than a belief in a fantasy…that we can have a tiny gov’t w/ few laws and very minimal taxes,while we are the largest economic and military superpower in the world,and a country of great diversity and millions of poor,undereducated people mixed in w/ billionaires. A country so large that our hiway system dwarfs almost every other country w/ our hundreds of thousands of miles of roads.

            Despite the charm and quaintness of the Libertarians,it is a virtual joke to think that we can come close to their ideals,w/ all the modern
            complexity and problems that require real gov’t and community solutions,and yes, laws. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could all live side by side w/ respect and love and harmony and fewer laws and regulations? Sure,but it’s nothing but pie in the sky…

        • http://deleted Claire

          DaveH– Ironic that you said what you did because my husband says the same thing.

        • http://deleted Claire

          DaveH– You are correct. I did not vote #3 because I really do not think any of them will be any better than what we have now. Yes, Ron Paul is missing. Why? Fox, MSM, nobody says a word about him. It is unfair. But what can be done about it?

          • DaveH

            Watch Judge Napolitano on Fox Business Network (FBN), he talks about Ron Paul often.

          • http://deleted Claire

            DaveH– I will do this.

      • bob wire

        Ron Paul is a junior and will find himself between a rock and a hard place and get squashed, finding himself compromised or behave, clock some time, build up some political equity and grow to be an effective player.

        This is big league play and not brush league, not to say that he can’t break out and be effective today but it could prove very costly for him, his armor is far too thin.

        • DaveH

          Everybody has to start somewhere. How do you expect any change to occur if nobody steps up to the plate?

  • James

    Let’s remember, here, the power to declare war was vested in the Legislative Branch (Art. I, Sec. 8, Cl. 11), not the Executive Branch. The main purpose for the Executive Branch was to execute the laws enacted by Congress. There is no provision in the constitution for the president to act under any other authority, and there’s no provision therein for Congress to delegate its power to some other power. When Obama waged war against Libya, (under the authority of U.N. Resolution 1973), he violated his oath “to…protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
    Nor is our president even an American citizen. We have an illegal alien in the Oval Office who is now serving the United Nations.

  • Mick

    James says:
    April 10, 2011 at 9:18 am
    Let’s remember, here, the power to declare war was vested in the Legislative Branch (Art. I, Sec. 8, Cl. 11), not the Executive Branch. The main purpose for the Executive Branch was to execute the laws enacted by Congress. There is no provision in the constitution for the president to act under any other authority, and there’s no provision therein for Congress to delegate its power to some other power. When Obama waged war against Libya, (under the authority of U.N. Resolution 1973), he violated his oath “to…protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
    Nor is our president even an American citizen. We have an illegal alien in the Oval Office who is now serving the United Nations.**************
    ***********************************
    James ,,,I don’t know where the SOB was born, the whole thing is too murky for the population to find out the truth.
    All this president has to do is like any other President before him is to show his birth certificate but he prefers leaving the citizens guessing instead of putting the issue to rest and get on with trying to solve the crisis America face,his games will cost our country dearly.
    The only reason he wouldn’t come forward with this information is if he is in fact a non- citizen.
    ‘As for him serving the United nations,he certainly act as if he is but I think there is more to it, his background suggest a more bleak situation and although he backed off a bit about the terrorists prisoners rights to be trial in civilian courts( which would have cost an absolute fortune ) and the treatment of these savages, he is supporting the rebels in lybia without knowing who they really are OR DOES HE ??

  • chuckb

    mick, he certainly knows and approves of who they are, they are the forces of the muslim brotherhood, it won’t be long before they own the middle east the loses of our troops in iraq and afghanistan will be for naught, barry should be removed and all those who operate this puppet.

    the bolshevik party is showing it’s true colors now and have been for the last three and one half years, they put this monstrosity in the white house and use him as a purveyor of their brand of socialism (communist).
    the news is reporting we lost two helicopters in libya, this is just the beginning, we have no business in that country and we need to stop right now.

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    8) “Even a fish wouldn’t get into trouble if it kept its mouth shut”

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Please practice what you preach!!!!

    • chuckb

      hey coal miner, that frog would also starve to death.

  • JeffH

    If you don’t know where you are going, any road will get you there. This administration, and particularly this POTUS, lack purpose and a clear objective in their wobbled decision to join the UN and to attack Qadafi’s Libyan forces. Same thing in their decision to pressure Mubarak to resign in Egypt, a dictator that was at least friendly to America unlike Qadafi. There is still civil unrest and unhappiness throughout Egypt, which is on the brink of exploading again, no thanks to an administration that couldn’t even differentiate the so called good guys from the bad guys, not that Mubarak was a good guy by any means. There is an agenda behind these indecisions with the O’Man and this administration. Clear and concise leadership is not one of them.

    I’ll put out the warning now, just don’t look for anything positive to come from the White House where the middle east and democracy is concerned cause it ain’t gonna happen!

  • Joseph

    We should be pulling out of idiot Bush’s Iraqi war right now ! We also need to pullout from Afghanistan unless we are ready to commit troops there for 25 years and in much greater numbers. Leave Libya alone. Let them sort their mess out themselves. Our interest is that there be stability ! Stability will be acheived when the dominant group prevails. If Gadafi should be replace it wuill only happen when senior officers decide to replace him . We did not need to interfere in the Soviet UNion for it to collapse. It collapse from the inside with very little meddling from us .

    • bob wire

      “If Gadafi should be replace it will only happen when senior officers decide to replace him”

      That’s the end game plan Joseph. The international community has so much as signed off on this plan and work to create an environment to where this well occur.

      It’s not a direct frontal approach but at more certain one, bearing in mind we are not privileged to details or the master plan. Names, faces and places must be protected.

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    5)www.pantheism.net/paul/index.htm

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
  • Dave M

    The thing that I find really weird about the Libian intervention is that the insurgents we are supporting in Libya are the same people we are FIGHTING in Iraq!

    Something a little too Orwellian about that.

    The current supply of oil is the highest it has been in over thirty years, a virtual glut of oil, yet oil prices are sky high. The current demand for oil is the lowest we have seen in over a decade. This whole middle east “revolution” was engineered to drive up oil prices.

    • Denniso

      You’re right that there is no oil shortage…the oil industry and traders repeatedly use any and all ‘reasons’ to push up the price of oil,and rake in more billions in windfall profits overnight essentially,w/ no increase in their costs. But,it is what happens in a capitalistic market if there are no controls to stop it,which there aren’t.

      The people in the middle east have lived under despots for decades and are legitimately restless for more freedom,and they should have that right…the oil pushers are smart enough to use the unrest to jack up prices.

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    PANTHEISM: Nature, universe, science and religion
    To the rich history of Pantheism, represented by thinkers and readings from …
    http://www.pantheism.net/paul/index.htm – Cached

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Claire,
    I like his son Rand Paul.
    I think it`s time we give the young guns a shot. It will be most of their life that has to be covered. They need to take the T parties ideas and run with them, under the Republican name, such as the Progressives did with the Democrat name.

    • http://deleted Claire

      Charles–Rand is okay, I still like his father more.

  • Palin12

    Trump says he is Obama’s biggest nightmare, and Obama knows it, and Obama knows that Trump knows it.

    • Denniso

      Trump is a joke and is only looking for publicity. He won’t come close to competing.

  • Gary

    I have been saying we need to impeach Obama for over a year now. he has gone aganst congress more times then any president nhistory yet no one in congress will even speak of impeachment. I remember when they impeached Nixon and he did practically nothing to what Obama has done. I even have been trying to get people to wake up to the idea that we need a third party. The republicans and the demwites are never going to stop playing games with our money/laws/education and way of life untl we finally put a third party into office. I think their are enough people that are so fed up with both parties that they will practically jump a mile to vote for another party if that party will bring our country back to where it was 20 to 30 years ago. Our fore fathers would be rolling over in their graves right now if they were to see how we are treating the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Does the fall of Rome mean anything to anybody. It should because if we don’t get Obama out of office BEFORE his term is up then I fear their won’t be a country to save and and Europe will be reading about the fall of the USA in their history books.

    • Denniso

      You need a lesson in civics…they are two separate and equal branches of gov’t and don’t have to work together ever if they don’t care to. However,you are mixing up the Repubs in congress and the Dems in congress…they are split. Obama has worked w/ the Dems and even sometimes,like now,w/ the Repubs.

      Get used to Obama because he will be a two term prez.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Denniso,
    You say,Trump is a joke and I say, Obama is the JOKER!!!!! so where
    does that leave you?

    • Denniso

      Where does that leave me? That doesn’t make any sense,does it. Trump has absolutely NO political experience,not even at a city level,and you think people will fall for another billionaire running on his money?

    • http://deleted Claire

      “The jokee.” Just trying to be funny.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Claire,
    I still think we need the young guns leading the charge,before they become corrupt like most of the old nit-wits in Washington. I also think Ron Paul is a good man and would make one heck of an advisor
    to the young. I would like to see Paul Ryan take the place of
    John Boehner as the Speaker of the House I think he is younger
    and hasn`t had time to become corrupt and is one hell a lot smarter
    than Boehner. I don`t think Obama and his Marxist friends can bull
    sh.. Ryan like they can most of the old timers. Good to hear from you
    Claire. How about my Cleveland Indians? They are going to be to
    baseball as what Greenbay was to football!!! Just joking, of course…..

    • Denniso

      The young guns become corrupt? That comment just shows how little you know about democracy or gov’t. These supposed young guns go to DC w/ no or little experience in governing on the national level,after getting elected on fanciful and often extreme or unrealistic promises.They have an absurdly simplistic view of very complex and difficult issues and problems.When they get involved in actual governing for the first time and learn that things are not so simple as they think, and told their supporters in order to get elected, most of them wise up a bit and realize they have to modify their thinking and strategy,or they will get nothing at all accomplished.

      Of course a few do actually get corrupted by the money and power swirling around them, but that is not most.

      • Jeep

        Denniso, you are so funny. The “simplistic view” seems ver y simple to me. Leave it to a lib to make it complex. The country has used the credit card long enough. How hard is that to figure out? So, like any other business or family, the govt must cut out some luxuries. Or, is that beyond your understanding? Most of the freshmen class promised to “live within our means”, or “not spend more than we take in”. Is that too tough for you? They have “modified” their strategy. Just look at the multiple CR’s. Instead of reaching for the whole pie, they decided to take a piece at a time. But, your hero the prez finally caught on around turn three and threw out the gauntlet. See he’s not as smart as you might think. And, is it that hard to govern? Really? Let’s see, taxes come in and I can only spend that amount…too hard for ya? Well, there is that Constitution problem. To paraphrase your buddy the “Constitutional Scholar” says, it limits govt a bit too much. But, if you stay within it’s limitations and don’t take out a credit card, then I don’t see where it’s that hard to govern.

        • Denniso

          What is it you don’t understand? You mention businesses and families,both of which usually carry debt just as the gov’t has for many decades. We can handle debt,most of which is owed to ourselves anyway.The single largest chunk of discretionary spending is the military,so where are the Republican cuts in it? Also, if we really want to cut the debt,then why did we extend tax cuts to the wealthy and add a trillion over a decade? We can’t possibly cut our way out of the debt,there isn’t enough discretionary sending to do it with.

          • Jeep

            Call it what you want, but ENTITLEMENTS are the biggest part of the budget. Period. Where are the progressives on cutting those? So, really? We can’t “cut our way out”? Sure we can. Cancel all entitlements, which are an un-Constitutional socialist redistribution that takes from the producer and gives to the non-producer, and we will save 43% of the budget right off! Then we can apply that $1.1 TRILLION dollars to pay back China and Japan. See, easy!

          • Denniso

            You and people like you want to live in a society w/ even more citizens living and dying on the streets,then move to India or Bangledesh…you probably also feign Christian ‘values’ at the same time,right?

            People pay into SS and Medicare…taxes. They get money back when they are older and retired. Those who live long get all they paid in and more in some cases,those who die younger get less. There are people,not many,who get money out who never paid in…that’s called humane and probably ‘Christian’.

    • http://deleted Claire

      Charles–Green Bay is the best!! Seriously, I have thought and thought about the young guns. It is good we have new faces. But they do not need to go off half-cocked. I hope they keep their wits about themselves, think carefully about every issue, and cast their yeas and nays very wisely. Once in Congress/the House, it is serious business. No more fun and games. If I were elected, I would have to vote for what I thought was the best choice, the best outcome for America and all Americans. I would probably “drop” the party image and do the job I was elected to do. I probably would not even think about the party I belonged to, I would only be able to think about what was right and what was wrong. This is much of the problem America has, the two parties rule, with no thought sometimes to mankind and our beloved country. It is a tough job, and hopefully they will realize and consider the outcome of bad decisions.

  • jopa

    Charles:” Sorry Charley” Where have I heard that?But it is too late for Paul Ryan because the insurance lobbyists have already adopted him.All of his policies are on the backs of the senior citizens, students, poor and children of America.He is only working for big insurance and the top 4% of the richest in the country.Do you really think a senior citizen with a voucher can call an insurance company and say” I am sick so start to insure me now okay”.I think not.He wants to wipe out Medicare, Medicaid and privatize social security.He is definitely not the answer.

  • Anthony
  • http://deleted Claire

    This comment will no doubt piss some people off, but I will tell it like I see it. Leave Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid alone. Why in the name of all that is good do these stupid politicians want to do away with these programs? Oh I know, it is a “socialist” program. Well, so what! Social Security is not an entitlement. Americans paid into this program their entire lives and the administrations and dishonest people constantly stole from it. The doctors, insurance companies, and pharmas all took advantage of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid–it was a way to “make” more money. I call it fleecing the public. Everybody became greedy and they ruined a good thing. The “voucher” system is a bunch of crap. How many senior citizens will have to make a choice as to whether to buy their medications, go to the doctor or buy food? This is exactly what it will come to. I am not for the Health Reform Bill since they took out the public option, but I want to say this–they said there were “death panels” in the Health Reform Bill, I say there are “death panels” in the antics of the politicians wanting to do away with Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. My husband and I are senior citizens, we will be okay. But what about the seniors that
    only have Social Security to live on? Sure, they should have planned for old age, but some folks had bad luck their entire lives through no fault of their own. Ever hear about people that appear to have a “cloud” hanging over their head all the time? Not everyone is lucky in this world. Life can be unfair as hell. I know a number of elderly in Church that will have a horrible time making ends meet. People better realize that we all grow old if we live long enough. I believe these a$$hole politicians better wake up. But of course, they don’t have to worry about money. I am disgusted with the entire administration and all the politicians that want to do away with these programs. Shame on them all.

    • Denniso

      You do know that it’s the Repubs who want to get rid of or privatise those programs…

      • http://deleted Claire

        The Republicans have always wanted to get rid of Social Security. And now I hear Obama wants to chop on it. Why on earth don’t these parties concentrate on the jobs, economy and the stupid wars first? Instead, they are going “after” each other’s pet projects.

        • Denniso

          The Dems would like to raise the income cap on SS taxes and not pay it out to people who wind up becoming millionaires. Obama is not proposing actual cuts to benefits.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Denniso–I have not heard this explanation–but I sure will keep my eyes and ears open.

          • Denniso

            It’s true,and a few Repubs even agree. Billionaires shouldn’t get SS even though they paid into it. They all made their millions and billions w/ the help and support of the entire nation…our infrastructure,defense,research labs/universities,police protection…all paid for by all citizens,and it allows people to work, innovate and succeed in a mostly protected and supportive environment. The same should be true for medicare,that millionaires/billionaires shouldn’t receive it. They can afford their own private insurance and shouldn’t burden the system.

  • Kookie

    What does Obumba do that isn’t illegal. He makes his own rules regardless of the cost of money or lives. Cut back on Defense funding? Then go into a was we have no business in? If he wants to cut back on Defense, then bring back our boys and take care of our country’s problems. He has no right to tell other countries how to run their country, the same as we don’t want them to tell us how to run our country. Although our country is going to hell from the one who is running it.

    • http://deleted Claire

      Kookie, Kookie, lend me your comb–I remember that song from the late 50s. It is fun to hear that name again.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Claire and Denniso
    I will tell you one thing, all these programs you are talking about
    won`t mean a damn thing if the goverment dosen`t stop it`s spending
    and get rid of the deficit.All these programs mean nothing and is
    a way for Obama and his Marxist buddies to get the American people
    minds off the real problem,the deficit. Claire, you say you and
    your husband have nothing to worry about,well let me tell you something, the demise of the dollar isn`t all that far off.You won`t have to be worried about all the programs, because there won`t be any money
    to pay for them anyway.You will be worried about your next meal,so
    save your old leather shoes, this might be all you have to eat.

    • http://deleted Claire

      Charles– I have hoarded and saved for a “rainy” day. When it is gone, then so be it.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Claire,
    Now you sound like one of the young guns. I know you would give them Hell.You sure wouldn`t be scared of Pelosi as the majority are.There are two people other than you who I know would stand up to her and they are Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann. I use to think Hillery Clinton was one not afraid of her, but I now think she along with
    Reid, Boehner, and Obama are scared to death of her. I kmow the rest
    of our jelly belly law makers are afraid of her, other than the Paul boys, who will fight the whole damn bunch of them.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Kookie,
    The reason we have some right to put our nose in other
    countries business is because of all the aid we give to them
    or they do something not very nice to us,like killing Americans.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Denniso,
    For once you and I agree on something. I think Medicare and Social
    Security should stay with the goverment,because it is something we
    paid for while working. It is used by to many other people than the people that really paid for it. The greedy politions should not be
    able to raid its coffers anytime they please. This should be hands off.
    As far as uniployment,welfare,Medicade,Medical Social Security and any other freebies out there people should have to do some type of work
    a couple days a week to get these benifits. No workie >> No freebies.
    There are exceptional to the rule.

    • http://deleted Claire

      Charles–The government should have to pay back all the money they stole from Social Security.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Claire, I agree 100% they should have to pay every dollar they
    have stolen.A way to do this, every canidate running for office
    should have to pay 10% of what he has raised for his or her campaign
    to Social security till all the IOU`s are paid off. I also wonder,
    what in the hell is going on in Washington. I heard they just found
    in goverment payments of 225 billion dollars in over payments to various groups.The goverment, also overpaid the UN ove 100 million
    dollars for peace keeping duties. I see in my state of Ohio, the Cheif
    of Police association wasted over 5 million dollars meant for them to use for Home Land security. The beat goes on, Medicare frud,and many
    other miss use of tax payers money.The bigger goverment gets,it seems like the more coruption and mistakes we have. I have questioned, the hugh ammount of money floting around out there,there is no sure way
    of keeping track of it. I wonder how much has been stolen and how
    many new billiners have been made the last two years from theft alone.
    The goverment is also missing over 250 billion, they have no idea
    where it is, or where it`s gone. Once again, the Obama White House, getts a free ride from the media. If the people don`t know whats going on in Washington,how can they make a judgement on wheather
    Obama is doing a good job or not. The media sure aren`t going to tell you anthing that might be Obamas fault. All the bad, is going to be
    blamed on the Republican party and George Bush. Most people don`t try to find out the truth of whats going on in Wasington.The media
    makes Obama look like God and is it any wonder our country is still
    sliding toward 3rd world status. Not one person in this country should
    vote for this man,including his wife. This man is a wolf in sheep clothing.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Clarie,Good for you,this is what everybody should be doing, saving for that retirement day..If the dollar fails, I have taken 20% of my net worth and bought gold and silver. I have had my children do the same thing.We may want to get out of this country, because it may never be again the country we grew up to love.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Joseph,
    Just like us, we are about to fall with in, because of the the heavy amount debt that Obama and his Marxist buddies are pilling on. No country,not even the US, can sustain this amount of debt.Look around you Joe, it`s time to quit blaming Bush and put the shoe where it fitts.

    • Denniso

      Most of the nat’l debt is actually owned by us citizens,not by foreigners. Social security is fine as long as the rightwing doesn’t cause a gov’t bankruptcy or long shutdown. The Feds will continue to pay out for SS as long as the gov’t is functioning,whether we hve debt or not. Debt is a fact of life for our country and is no different than a family having a mortgage,car payments and credit card bill that they pay on. Of course there are some limits to debt and how it affects an economy,but it’s not the monster that the right is trying to make it out to be. Most of the problem now is the result of the economic crash of ’08,and the hole we have to dig out of. We can do it if we don’t freak out about the debt like it’s some boogey man that we’ve never seen before,and instead act like adults w/ a manageable problem to deal w/.

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