‘Judgment Call’: Cops Use Stun Gun On Man Attempting To Rescue His Toddler From Burning Home

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Family members of a 3-year-old boy killed in a northern Missouri house fire last week say that the boy may have had a chance to survive had police not used a stun gun on the boy’s stepfather as he frantically tried to re-enter the burning home to save the child.

According to a report KHQARyan and Cathy Miller, the boy’s parents, awoke in the early morning hours of Oct. 31 to find that their home was engulfed in flames. Unable to reach the child’s bedroom because of the fire that had broken out in a recreation room in the rear of the home, the couple exited through the back door. As police and firefighters were just arriving on the scene, according to reports, Ryan Miller was kicking in the front door of the home in an effort to re-enter the burning building and save the child.

Police forbade Miller to re-enter the home, telling him it was too dangerous to attempt to save the child’s life. When, as any parent would, Miller decided that the officers’ commands and his safety were far less important than the innocent child’s well-being, the officers forcefully restrained and then fired on him with a stun gun.

Miller was then arrested and later released from the city jail without being charged with a crime.

“He tried to get back in the house to get the baby,” Lori Miller, Ryan Miller’s mother, told local media. “They took my son to jail because he tried to save his son.”

Lori Miller said that she witnesses two officers use the stun gun on the man a total of three times.

The man’s sister-in-law called the officers’ actions heartless and inappropriate.

“It’s just heartless. How could they be so heartless? And while they all just stood around and waited for the fire department, what kind of police officer wouldn’t try and save a 3-year-old burning in a house?” said Emily Miller. “We’ve been going through pictures and he’s just smiling in every picture. He was just a happy, go-lucky kid.”

A city official called the police officers’ actions a “judgment call.”

Local officials say that there was no reasonable possibility that Ryan Miller would have been successful in his efforts to retrieve the toddler from the burning home, claiming that a firefighter who later arrived on the scene was unable to stand the heat in full gear.

The toddler’s remains were reportedly found near a bedroom doorway leading to the living area in the front of the home.

Personal Liberty

Sam Rolley

Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After covering community news and politics, Rolley took a position at Personal Liberty Media Group where could better hone his focus on his true passions: national politics and liberty issues. In his daily columns and reports, Rolley works to help readers understand which lies are perpetuated by the mainstream media and to stay on top of issues ignored by more conventional media outlets.

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  • Icemancold

    In my opinion the Officers should be relieved from duty and charged with Negligent Homicide and the department sued for millions

    • Bob Pante

      Not severe enough.

      • CORMAC___NJ

        Agreed. Think of it this way, if we apply the eye-for-an-eye method of punishment, we would make the officers watch as one of their children is burned to death. I’m not proposing that, but it serves as a good reference for determining an appropriate punishment.

    • Deerinwater

      then you would be suing yourself.

    • holtonfb

      Cool idea … let daddy run inside..he gets horribly burned .. dies in agony and mommy sues for millions on her hubby’s roast. The important thing here is that firefighters are paid to risk their lives when there’s a chance to make a life saving. they have the equipment and training to do that..most of you seem to forget both mom and dad originally bailed out the back. the front may have appeared to you folks as the best entry point .afraid not ….open that door and you get a backdraft or flashover

      • http://royharbin.tripod.com/ Roy Harbin

        Hey Holton,,now the mommy and daddy can sue for ‘the agonizing baby roast’.More of a chance that a jury will return a verdict in their favor seeing as how it was a child not an adult.Cops are also paid to ‘save lives’ when there’s a chance to save a life.And in my ‘trained opinion’ the front door was the best entry point.FYI,,no back draft or flash over if the back door (or any windows) was open.
        Captain R.Harbin #0014(unattached)

        • holtonfb

          Not necessarily.. was at a supermarket fire..back door open, entry team with a charged line hit the front glass door…glass broke, then a pop , then flame blew ten feet out the door and across the street..then my .next door neighbor’s house …thick black smoke out back door ..opened front door to check if owner’s near door and down …blast of flame over my head (I was on the floor..Have a query for you ..one blogger sed the child’s body found near the bedroom door..why didn’t dad turn towards the baby’s room from inside rather than flee and then seek entry from the front..in closing Roy.. what department do you run with..??

          • http://royharbin.tripod.com/ Roy Harbin

            You:Not necessarily.. was at a supermarket fire..back door open, entry team with a charged line hit the front
            glass door…glass broke, then a pop , then flame blew ten feet out the door and across the street.

            Me:Back door open.Many aisles w/essentially half walls and at least a set of doors before getting to the back
            door.And A/C or heat running,right?Colder air flowing along floor from various coolers etc.and heat accumulating up top.Major temperature differences occuring.Upper glass and frame heated from gases above inversion layer.

            You say the glass shattered first,,then a pop followed by a flame.Does not fit a classic backdraft.Would be
            simultaneous,,and you probally wouldn’t describe it as a ‘pop’.What color was the flame? What was in the immediate vicinity of the entry point?Anything like household cleaning supplies in glass bottles placed on sales display?

            Something shattered by rapid coolong effect of water spew something flammable.Such as cooking oil can react explosively in such a scenario.

            Y:then my .next door neighbor’s house …thick black smoke out back door ..opened front door to check if owner’s near door and down …blast of flame over my head (I was on the floor.

            M:Same sort of thing may have been occuring.Any kind of air moving appliances running?A/C,furnace/heater or maybe even ceiling fans?Were there flames on the other side,,in the entry?
            Simple exhausting isn’t equal to backdraft or ‘flash over’.Nasty effects none the less if one isn’t alert yet not a backdraft or flashover event.

            Y:.Have a query for you ..one blogger sed the child’s body found near the bedroom door..why didn’t dad turn
            towards the baby’s room from inside rather than flee and then seek entry from the front.

            M:The fathers exit?The article above said it plainly:” Unable to reach the child’s bedroom because of the fire
            that had broken out in a recreation room in the rear of the home, the couple exited through the back door.”
            Obviously he insured his wife got out safely with the intention of re-entering the house from the front or some other entry point on the other side of the involved area where his son was like any reasonably intelligent ,at least half sane individual would.I would have done the exact same thing.After all,,he was found near a bedroom doorway leading to the living area in the front of the home.Did you read the article above?

            As for the odds of the child dying of smoke inhalation rather than the flames themselves,,kids are short so he
            would have had the same advantage you shot for when opening your neighbors door,,smoke up top,,oxygen below.With the back door open to allow exhaust he most likely could have survived long enough to feel the agony.

            Y:.in closing Roy.. what department do you run with..??

            M:Like I said,,in that other post,,unattached.Not currently active.That’s past but the training,knowledge,experience,ability and willingness isn’t.

      • http://royharbin.tripod.com/ Roy Harbin

        Holton F. Brown said publicly 12/1/10 on his FB page:
        .. working at the fire museumj of maryland … running the christmas garden .. serving assafety officer there and also serving as vice president of the third largest fire museum in the world …
        Can you imagine this guy being a safety officer and vp of the largest fire museum in the world based on what he has spewed here?I can’t.IMO he had to be bs’ing someone.

  • vicki

    “claiming that a firefighter who later arrived on the scene was unable to stand the heat in full gear.”

    What a wimpy excuse. Of course LATER it would be far to hot to stand somewhere near the fire in full gear. The father was trying to affect a rescue while it was obviously still cool enough or the police would not have needed a tazer to stop him.

    • kirkmcloren

      they NEVER admit fault. People that don’t own their failures are not adults according to shrinks.

  • HBDuncan

    The officers should have told him – enter at your own risk and not stun him – he should have had the freedom to choose! But also the police officers I know would try to help save the child. These guys were cold cowards! I did wonder though why the stepfather/mother didn’t try to get the baby before leaving the house?

    • vicki

      From the OP:
      ” Unable to reach the child’s bedroom because of the fire that had broken
      out in a recreation room in the rear of the home, the couple exited
      through the back door.”

      The father then tried to go in the front to reach his son. That is when the cops interfered.

      • HBDuncan

        SAD Prayin for them!

    • holtonfb

      there is comment here about the firefighter taking time to put on his gear ..all departments in my state require all firefighters to have their boots, bunker pants, turnout coat, gloves Nomex hood and their helmet on with a full bottle SCBA on their back .. meanwhile daddy’s protective gear was either his PJ’s or t-shirt and drawers-jockey or boxers and I bet he was barefooted

  • charliep

    It may have been suicidal for him to reenter the house, but there are few father’s that wouldn’t attempt to save their child under the same circumstances. It is a built in instinct that we all have on protecting our offspring. I believe the officers were wrong on their call. It was his choice, not their’s. If after entering, he discovered that his mission was impossible, he would have most likely aborted and escaped with some burns for sure. As is he will always believe that it was possible for him to save the boy. No amount of rational explanations will ever change his mind. He will probably be a cop hater for the rest of his life along with the child’s mother.

    Not being there, none of us really know with reality, what chance he may have had to save the child’s life. Never-the-less it was his call, his risk, not theirs.

    • vicki

      “he would have most likely aborted and escaped with some burns for sure.”

      And the supporting evidence is in the article.

      ” Unable to reach the child’s bedroom because of the fire that had broken
      out in a recreation room in the rear of the home, the couple exited
      through the back door.”‘

      • charliep

        That was the recreation room in the rear of the home; not the front of the house. In any event it was his call, not the officers.

        And your reply pointing out that: “claiming that a firefighter who later arrived on the scene was unable to stand the heat in full gear.”

        I agree with the reply to you: What a wimpy excuse…That was later; how much later we don’t know, but obvious it would be hotter later, and in situations like this, a matter of just a few seconds can be the difference between life and death.

        • Robert Messmer

          According to the articles that are linked to, the call came in at 12:58 AM and the police and fire truck arrived at 1:03 AM. Granted the fireman would have had additional gear to don after arriving on scene but probably not really a lot of time. What the story does not say, however that may bear on this, is rather or not the fireman actually entered the structure as soon as possible or if he had to wait to try and find out where the baby was located while the father was being tased.

  • aztex2010

    Heart breaking! Suppose the cops would have shot him if they had not had access to their new toy, tazing is tantamount to but not as lethal as a gun. The fact they had to taz him three times before subduing him is even more troubling. This father had inside information as to exactly where the boy was and how to get there .. I believe the child would have been rescued if the father’s choices had of been honored. I suspect the cops involved were likely less than 30 years old and just an example of the character of those who now take the easy 5 week GED route into criminal justice, have no children, were spoiled to death and could really care less about the life of this one baby. If none of them were willing to attempt to save the child the father should have had the right to do so at his own risk. Tazing has been known to be lethal as well. But no one really cares until something happens to them .. Vicki Weaver was shot and killed while nursing her 10 month old daughter and their 14 year old son was shot in the back , and then there was WACO where 21 children, 12 younger than 5 burned alive while the entire world watch them go up in flames. A sad testament to those who are employed to serve and protect. This father will never believe he could not have saved this baby. Another very sad day as we watch our Constitution be destroyed. We the people are imprisoned and prevented from pursuing our own personal happiness, even if that right is to enter a burning house to save your child. Where are the heroes? They surely do not include many “boys in blue” .. Boo Hiss

    • Vis Fac

      I have posted this several times and it is ALWAYS apropos.

      The point of this isn’t to judge whether cops are justified in doing what they do. This article has nothing to do with police training. And this isn’t just about

      American cops. This is about the perception that we, the public, have of you when you perform the following actions. It doesn’t matter if you disagree with these perceptions, because right or wrong, they exist. The point of this posting is to simply let you know that we’re watching, and this is how we see things.

      1. When ten of you show up to make one arrest, it makes you look like cowards. On my way home from a bike ride, I saw three arrests being made in under an hour in a relatively safe part of the city. At one of the incidents, eight police cruisers responded to make one arrest. The guy who was arrested was ejected for being too drunk in a bar. Just one guy and he was drunk. He had a stupid moustache, hadn’t hurt anyone and was drunkenly walking home when he was tased and tackled by 3 cops before 6 police cruisers showed up in addition to the two that were there, for a total of 8 cruisers and 10 cops. The man was
      unarmed.

      How much backup do you need? It’s one guy. If you can’t handle one drunk guy by yourself, you shouldn’t be a cop. Training tells you otherwise? Well stop being trained by sissies.

      2. When you tase somebody who IS NOT trying to escape, it makes you look like lazy cowards. A taser IS NOT a remote-control for people. Want to talk to someone? Then walk over to them and talk. Don’t tase them and expect them to cooperate. Also, when someone is being tased and is writhing in cardiac arrest on the ground, they aren’t “resisting arrest” by not getting on their knees and neatly kowtowing to your demands. They’re incapacitated. You look like idiots barking orders at them when they can’t move.

      Being a cop has certain risks associated with it. If you aren’t comfortable with those risks, don’t take the job. Always trying to minimize your risk of injury at the expense of others by being a taser-happy lunatic makes you look like lazy sissies.

      Tasing everyone you see because they might pose a risk to you is like spraying everything with a fire extinguisher so it doesn’t catch fire. Part of the problem might be that many cops are overweight and out of shape. If you fatsos can’t chase someone down, then you shouldn’t be cops. Studies have shown that not being a lardo is just as effective as using a taser.

      3. When you set up speed traps, it makes you look like you don’t have anything better to do. I get happy every time I see a speed trap, because I assume it means all criminals have been locked up, you’ve caught the guys who broke into my car on three separate occasions and my stolen property will be returned shortly, right idiots? Good job guys, take a break and make some scratch for the city. Because why the hell else would you be sitting on your butt in a ditch if that wasn’t the case?

      People who speed are awesome. The last thing this world needs is more slow drivers. Traffic jams occur because of idiots braking prematurely. And when you pull people over, how about doing it in a place that doesn’t obstruct traffic? You know what’s just as “unsafe” as speeding? Having to swerve into another lane because your stupid car is blocking traffic.Every time I pass another cruiser parked in two lanes, backing up traffic for miles, it makes me literally punch myself in the jaw until I pass out.

      4. When you give out imbecilic tickets for rolling through stop-signs at 3 AM, or closing down lemonade stands, it makes us think you’re morons. We know that “the law is the law.” We also know that you’re not instruction-executing robotic automatons. When you harass us with nonsensical fees and fines, it makes us question your judgment. We know that this kind of trash is all about the money.

      Remember that case in Florida where a pair of LEOs closed down a lemonade stand operated by a 6 and 9 year old girl, because they didn’t have a permit? The legal age for entering into contract in the United States is 18. So that effort to charge them fees by making them apply for a permit? Illegal. Law is the law, right? Arrest yourselves. And speaking of nepotism…

      5. We know you guys use the buddy system to get out of speeding tickets. And it infuriates us to no end. Cops have a code that basically amounts to always letting fellow cops go. When a cop pulls over an off-duty officer, the officer who was pulled over discreetly flashes his badge to let him know that he’s on the force, and he’s simply let go. You think we don’t know what’s going on, jerk-wads? It’s a courtesy not extended to anyone else, lest the officer is having a particularly good day and isn’t PMS-ing all over the highway.

      Sometimes you write tickets for going 1 Mile over the speed limit, sometimes it’s 10 Miles. Then when you get called on doing something stupid like writing a ticket to someone for a law that shouldn’t be enforced and rarely is (like jay-walking in New York), you hide behind your tired mantra that it’s the law and that you have to be consistent. Except when you aren’t.

      6. When you flash your lights just to get through intersections, you look like scumbags. I’ve followed cops who’ve done this, only to see them park their cruisers for coffee or lunch. And speaking of lunch…

      7. When you park in a red zone to eat, it makes you look like lazy scumbags. The argument can be made that police officers need to be near their cruisers at all times in case of an emergency. Fine, but that doesn’t entitle you to eat at the most popular restaurants. If you want to eat at some trendy restaurant, park at a meter and pay, like everyone else. Can’t find a meter? Tough luck, go someplace else. Doctors, surgeons, rescue workers and security all have important jobs where people’s lives are at stake, and you don’t see their cars popped up on the curb, obstructing traffic and parked illegally so they can fill their fat faces with lunch. We know you’ll never get written a ticket (see #5),
      it infuriates us, and it makes us trust you less, and cooperate less.

      Now this is the part where I say “I know that police officers have a tough job,” but they don’t. Being a cop isn’t hard, it’s dangerous. There’s a difference. Being an engineer, teacher or airline pilot is hard. Being a logger, deep sea crab fisher, coal miner or firefighter is hard and dangerous. Being a cop is dangerous, but usually not hard. Driving around, issuing moronic tickets and filling out paperwork isn’t hard, it’s annoying.

      This is also the part where I say “now I know that most cops are
      good,” but I don’t. I only know two cops in real life, and they’re both awesome, but so is anyone I choose to call my friend. Most cops I see abuse their power every day by parking illegally, talking on their cell phones while driving, drifting in and out of lanes without turn signals, flashing their lights to get out of intersections and power tripping like crazy. If you’re a cop who’s reading this, rather than being butt-hurt by people’s perceptions of you, do something to change it. Write a fellow officer a ticket. Stick your neck out for us, rather than your colleague for a change. Do the right thing. We notice.

      And as for us: record cops. Record them all the time. Record them even if they’re not doing anything. Cops are cracking down on this and they’re trying to change the laws to make it illegal so they can’t be held accountable for breaking the law. They look up your plates every time they’re behind you at a stop, even if you haven’t done anything, just to check up on you. It’s time we started checking up on them. Who watches the watchers, if you will.

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

      • Alan

        Great post, two thumbs up !

        • Vis Fac

          Alan Feel free to copy and use whenever you like

          To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

          You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est
          Semper-Fi

  • Karolyn

    If that man wanted to sacrifice his own life for his son’s, it was nobody’s business.

    Here’s another story of the inanity of laws and police actions these days. Pretty soon there will be signs posted in cities saying “Don’t feed the homeless.” When are more going to stand up and say “Enough is enough.”? I at least sign many petitions and join online campaigns, which often result in the reversal of laws like those against certain dog breeds. We have a larger voice than ever before in history – we all need to speak up as much as possible.

    http://www.getholistichealth.com/37986/it-is-illegal-to-feed-the-homeless-in-cities-all-over-the-united-states/

    • Diana

      I agree with you. I would have risked my life to save my child,and if i did die thats how i’d want it dying with my child not him dying alone and scared.

    • Vis Fac

      This is another liberal “people” control and a “revenue” gathering issue. They don’t want anyone providing food or drink without having a license. They want to FORCE those who want to help by subjecting them to “Their” rules and regulations then want to “tax/license” you to be able to do it.

      As for those online petitions: stay away these are like those so called vacation give aways that inhabit fairs and expos all designed to glean personal information. If you do provide a “disposable email address so you aren’t bombarded by SPAM.

      As a matter of course I carry a copy of the Bill of Rights It has worked more times than I can count on a would be usurping cop. Most cops don’t know (or care) about our Bill of Rights and most don’t want the hassle .

      I’ll be damned if someone is going to tell me that I cant buy a lunch for anyone I choose. When asked for money I refuse to give but ask in return “are you hungry?” if they are I have no problem providing meals to those who are needy.

      Phillips said, “I thought you said there was nobody available!”

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

    • vicki

      The solution is civil disobedience. Feed the hungry anyway (Bonus points for teaching them how to feed themselves).

      Disobedience to tyranny is obedience to God.

    • vicki

      The solution is civil disobedience. Feed the hungry anyway (Bonus points for teaching them how to feed themselves).

      Disobedience to tyranny is obedience to God.

  • dan

    Seconds count during a fire…it sounds as if it took longer to sudue the father than to rescue the child. Poor judgement …
    TRADGEDY could have been averted by a sprinkler system…an easy retrofit with todays poly-pipes…and I have extinquishers throughout the house.

    • Frank Staples

      Dan, totally agree with you but most people are not aware of the existence of home sprinkler systems…and as long as obumma is in our White House most people simply don’t have the money to install them.

  • Linda

    It sounds like there are some cops in that city that need some forty-five caliber stun gun treatments. To many cops are out of control completely, they are there to protect and serve not to make judgement calls on anything except the laws on the books. I am sure that there are no laws preventing a father from attempting to rescue his child from a fire or any other injury. Those cops at minimum should be charged with reckless endangerment and second degree murder of a child.

    • Vis Fac

      Linda: I know you want to believe the police are there to protect and serve but the police are just as hypocritical as politicians. Police are to enforce the law that’s it. How can police protect anything when they are in their station or at a doughnut shop?

      .. a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen…– Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App.181)

      A True Police Response account

      George Phillips, an elderly man from Walled Lake, Michigan, was going up to bed, when his wife told him that he’d left the light on in the garden shed, which she could see from the bedroom window. George opened the back door to go turn off the light, but saw that there were people in the shed stealing things.

      Phillips phoned the police, who asked “Is someone in your house?”
      Phillips said “No,” but some people are breaking into my garden shed and stealing from me.

      Then the police dispatcher said “All patrols are busy. You should lock your doors and an officer will be along when one is available”

      Phillips said, “Okay.” He hung up the phone and counted to 30. Then he phoned the police again.

      “Hello, I just called you a few seconds ago because there were people
      stealing things from my shed. Well, you don’t have to worry about them now because I just shot and killed them both; the dogs are eating them right now,” and he hung up.

      Within five minutes, six Police Cars, a SWAT Team, a Helicopter, two Fire Trucks, a Paramedic and an Ambulance showed up at the Phillips’ residence, and caught the burglars red-handed.

      One of the Policemen said to Phillips, “I thought you said that you’d shot them!”

      Phillips said, “I thought you said there was nobody available!”

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

  • Vis Fac

    “And while they all just stood around and waited for the fire department, what kind of police officer wouldn’t try and save a 3-year-old burning in a house?”
    The kind of police officers on every police department in America today. All police and Sheriff’s department receive GOVERNMENT money equipment and assistance and in receiving this GOVERNMENT money equipment and assistance have become lackeys adhering to GOVERNMENT policy and part of the GOVERNMENT Matrix!

    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

    You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

    Libertas inaestimabilis res est
    Semper-Fi

  • Dajeno

    I thought the police carried fire extingushers in their cruisers. It sems like the extingusher would be the first thing you’d grab in this situation.

    • Robert Messmer

      According to the report, the police and fire truck arrived together. So since the fire professionals were on site, no they wouldn’t grab their little 3 or 5 lb extinguisher to try to put out a fully engulfed house fire.

  • TML

    “Police forbade Miller to re-enter the home, telling him it was too dangerous to attempt to save the child’s life. When, as any parent would, Miller decided that the officers’ commands and his safety were far less important than the innocent child’s well-being, the officers forcefully restrained and then fired on him with a stun gun.”

    Judgement call, my a$$. This defies all rational thought.

  • Deerinwater

    Tough call, ~ policemen and women are paid to make them. ~ Look on the the good side, ~ the father was not injured and lives to tell of it and has much less guilt to carry around. ~ Thanks to Police intervention.

    Now all we need to do is figure out how to blame the police men for the fire.

    • WTS/JAY

      So, you’re telling us that if it was one of your own, you would not have defied the policeman’s call, Deer? Say it ain’t so, Deer! Sorry, but i got a give ya a BIG thumbs down for that one!

      • chrismalllory

        He must be a badge licker.

        • Deerinwater

          I’d prefer to see it as being rational with a strong constitution for bad news, where it be mine or someone else’s .

          Badge Licker ? ~ that sort of funny in a very twisted way.

          I take it , that any opposing views, offend you?

          I’ve never been big on Badges and more of a Pirate really. In fact, ~ I’ve hire out as a Pirate on occasions. Recovery and Reclaim requires it at times.

          Badges are just something to address and contend with. So you need to be wrapping up and gone before they ever arrive.

          The loss of this child was a tradgy

      • Deerinwater

        Oh no ! I would have done the same as this father. The authority on site overrode this father’s parental decision. Someone determined all was lost, ~ a parent would be the last person to do that.

        I said it was a hard call. ~ what more can I say?

        Whether authority be correct or incorrect is something that many of you are attempting to debate. You have the privilege of time to do that. They didn’t have such a luxury of time or to hear of this accounting in the third person.

        Cop work is not for everybody, ~ I never was a very good one. A good Cop almost shares a criminal mind set. ~ There are exceptions to this of course but not a lot.

        • TML

          DeerinWater says, “The authority on site overrode this father’s parental decision. Someone determined all was lost, ~ a parent would be the last person to do that.”

          The father was the ‘authority’ on-site, especially concerning his own decisions and actions, and his own house.

          DeerinWater says, “Whether authority be correct or incorrect is something that many of you are attempting to debate.”

          Go ahead, make my day.

          DeerinWater says, “You have the privilege of time to do that. They didn’t have such a luxury of time or to hear of this accounting in the third person.”

          Granted, but especially concerning my own house, and child, I doubt deliberation would make a difference in my decision – and that is being as kind as a can be.

    • WTS/JAY

      Deerinwater: Look on the the good side, ~ the father was not injured and lives to tell of it and has much less guilt to carry around.

      You are aware that the baby burned alive, are you not?

      • Robert Messmer

        We don’t really know if he burned to death or succumed to smoke. I found and followed two links in the story but no where other than the statement by the sister-in-law does any one state that the child burned. And hers we don’t know if that is a literal statement or figurative statement.

        Tough call and made by the wrong people. Cops are supposed to deal with crime; firemen deal with fire. Even more interesting is that of the three times that the man was tasered, two of them were after he was in cuffs.

        • WTS/JAY

          According to the article: The toddler’s (remains) were reportedly found near a bedroom doorway leading to the living area in the front of the home. I think it is safe to assume the child (perished) in the fire, Another words, burned alive,

          • Robert Messmer

            Most fire deaths are due to smoke/toxic inhalation, not that it makes any difference–dead is dead.

          • WTS/JAY

            Off course, we’re splitting hair. But you are correct, dead is dead!

    • TML

      “I was the logical choice. It calculated that I had a 45% chance of survival. Sarah only had an 11% chance. That was somebody’s baby. 11% is more than enough. A human being would’ve known that.”

  • Chris Johnson

    The police would’ve had to kill most fathers to stop that stun gun wouldn’t have stopped me. That total bs and they don’t know if kid could’ve been saved or not nobody had balls enough to try. First place why was everyone outside without baby to start with saving own hides first. Then going back into house police haven’t any right what you do on personal property period. If I choose to burn up with my son its my choice stopping me by force would put lots of lives in danger I would bet that’s not a call that would be made in texas though. If there’s a chance of death so be it as long as there’s a chance of life it outweighs that death. That’s at least manslaughter of not murder I would be screaming murder of my kid at least there wouldn’t be anywhere to hide for those responcible at all. Nowhere on this earth can you run to get away after dropping a man from saving his kid nowhere on earth. If I was the cops I would be leaving that state fast at least and get out maybe be a Mexican tomorrow murderers.