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An Overview Of Obama’s Big Spending Gun Control Proposals

January 17, 2013 by  

An Overview Of Obama’s Big Spending Gun Control Proposals
UPI
President Barack Obama signed 23 executive orders following his speech on control gun violence Wednesday.

The push for new gun laws by the Administration of President Barack Obama and certain anti-2nd Amendment lawmakers kicked into high gear yesterday with Obama’s “do it for the kids” speech about why his Administration will make gun control a top priority.

At the time of this writing, the executive orders the President signed immediately following his gun control speech had not yet been published on the White House website. But a review of the President’s plan, dubbed “Now Is The Time,” (which did make an appearance on the website) offers an overview of what actions the President has taken unilaterally and the costs associated with those actions.

The Executive Orders

According to a fact sheet handed out to reporters, the President signed orders that will:

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.

11. Nominate an ATF director.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.

A more complete examination of each of the Presidential actions will likely ensue as the White House provides more specifics regarding the executive orders.

The Call To Action

In addition to his unilateral gun control measures, Obama has called on Congress to reinstate and strengthen the ban on “assault weapons” and magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition in the United States. Other legislation that Obama requested from Congress would:

  • Add more restrictions to the already regulated trade of armor-piercing bullets.
  • Give cops more tools to prosecute gun crime.
  • Provide more school resource officers and school counselors, safer climates and better emergency response plans.
  • Help more young people get mental health evaluations.
  • Make sure health insurance covers mental health.
  • Invest in gun violence research.

The Cost

Complete success for Obama would not only mean stricter gun laws in America, but also a hefty price to the American taxpayer. The President’s plan, if completely implemented, would require a minimum of $4.5 billion in new Federal spending.

Among the costly gun control proposals outlined in the fact sheet:

  • $4 billion to “help keep 15,000 cops on the streets” throughout the Nation.
  • $20 million to “give states stronger incentives to make [relevant] data available [for background checks].” $50 million for this in FY2014.
  • “$14 million to help train 14,000 more police officers and other public and private personnel to respond to active shooter situations.”
  • “$10 million for the Centers for Disease Control to conduct further research, including investigating the relationship between video games, media images, and violence.”
  • $20 million for expansions to the National Death Reporting System.
  • $150 million for 1,000 new school resource officers and school counselors.
  • $30 million of one-time grants to states to help their school districts develop and implement emergency management plans.”
  • $50 million to help 8,000 schools “create safer and more nurturing school climates.”
  • $15 million to “provide ‘Mental Health First Aid’ training for teachers.”
  • $40 million for school districts to “work with law enforcement, mental health agencies, and other local organizations to assure students with mental health issues or other behavioral issues are referred to the services they need.”
  • $25 million to provide mental health help to people 16 to 25.
  • $50 million to “train social workers, counselors, psychologists, and other mental health professionals.”

These costs would be in addition to whatever the government might spend if Congress does implement new gun and magazine bans.

The Response

While the President urged Americans with anti-gun sentiments to get out and be heard on the issue, 2nd Amendment supporters are expected to double down on the push against gun control. A number of GOP lawmakers spoke out yesterday in response to the President’s proposals.

Texas Governor Rick Perry expressed disgust at Obama’s political opportunism: “[T]he piling on by the political left, and their cohorts in the media – to use the massacre of little children to advance a pre-existing political agenda that would not have saved those children – disgusts me personally.  The second amendment to the Constitution is a basic right of free people and cannot be, nor will it be, abridged by the executive power of this or any other president.”

Senator Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) also offered a powerful response to the President’s speech, saying nothing on Obama’s agenda would have saved the lives of mass shooting victims.

“Nothing the President is proposing would have stopped the massacre at Sandy Hook. President Obama is targeting the 2nd Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens instead of seriously addressing the real underlying causes of such violence,” Rubio said. “Rolling back responsible citizens’ rights is not the proper response to tragedies committed by criminals and the mentally ill. Making matters worse is that President Obama is again abusing his power by imposing his policies via executive fiat instead of allowing them to be debated in Congress. President Obama’s frustration with our republic and the way it works doesn’t give him license to ignore the Constitution.”

Representative Tim Huelskamp (R-Kansas) chalked up Obama’s plan as another example of the Administration’s attempt to consolidate Presidential power.

“The Second Amendment is non-negotiable. The right to bear arms is a right, despite President Obama’s disdain for the Second Amendment and the Constitution’s limits on his power,” he said. “Congress must stand firm for the entirety of the Constitution — even if, but particularly so, when President Obama seeks to ignore his obligation to ‘preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.’ Taking away the rights and abilities of law-abiding citizens to defend themselves is yet another display of the Obama Administration’s consolidation of power.”

A handful of Republicans have also suggested that lawmakers should initiate the impeachment process against the President if he continues with his ambitious gun control campaign.

Representative Steve Stockman (R-Texas), who has publically endorsed Gun Appreciation Day, which is Saturday, said in a statement: “Impeachment is not something to be taken lightly. It is a grave and serious undertaking that should only be initiated in a sober and serious manner. It should be reserved only for most egregious of trespasses by the President.

“I would consider using Executive Orders to engage in attacks on a constitutionally-protected right and violating his sworn oath of office to be such a trespass. The President cannot issue executive orders depriving the people of full access to an enumerated constitutional right.

“I do not think it will come to that. The President is not an absolute ruler, and his actions and orders can be checked and balanced by the Congress and the courts — if the Congress is willing.”

Representative Tray Radel (R-Fla.) expressed a similar sentiment, saying that the President’s actions are bringing conservative Americans to a “breaking point.”

As lawmakers examine the impact of Obama’s announcements yesterday, a Congressional fight over gun control looms ahead with the draconian assault weapons ban bill introduced by Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) waiting in the wings. And though Obama has urged Congress to act and promised to continue to use “any weight” his office holds to force legislative action, gun grabbers will likely fight an uphill battle at the Capitol. The Republican-controlled House will offer the most mighty resistance against incoming gun bills, but even the Democratic-led Senate is expected to have a tough time moving new gun laws.

As the United States continues to be mired in economic calamity with a looming debt crisis forcing near-constant Congressional gridlock, weary politicos can look forward to the forthcoming biggest legislative battle over guns in two decades in the weeks ahead.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • vicki

    ~300 MILLION Americans did not misuse guns. STOP TRYING TO FIND NEW WAYS TO PUNISH US.

    STOP IT.
    STOP IT NOW.

    • James Andrews

      Exactly!

    • ibcamn

      Louder Vicki,he’s not hearing you,he’s not listening to any person in the USA,except the Mrs.!remember,Obama is a lier.In the past(colladge)he lied on his app for a grant to the united negro colledge fund to get(said he was born a poor black boy in Kenya)money and into that school!so if he lied then to get what he wanted,then he’s lieing now!but if he told the truth back then,then he’s lieing now!!see what i mean,this thin skinned man will not listen to anything anyone has to say(unless your ready to get a little brown stuff on your nose)….

      • Jana

        $500million, to enact these CONTROLS on law abiding citizens.
        What part of cut spending does Obama not understand.

      • Vicki

        Spread the word. Tweet it to all the twitterpeople you can. Post on facebook. Shout it from the rooftops. Get the message out there. No I do not need to be credited. Just spread the word.
        .

    • eddie47d

      You are a part of the problem Vickie and I know you will never see it because your ego is doubly inflated. Repeating what you said 25 times will not change that! If you don’t believe in any sensible laws or restraints on weapons then maybe you are the careless one.. Not everyone wants to live in a world (US) that is awash in guns and for you to think so means you don’t give a damn about others as much as you think.

      • Jim In Oklahoma

        In the basement of my high school in the early 1940s was a rifle range. A rack off to one side held ten .22 target rifles.
        During 2 1/2 years in the Marine Corps in WWII, 71 of those days were on Okinawa in the early spring of 1945. Every Marine I was around on Okinawa was armed with a rifle and/or a pistol, with a constantly replenished supply of ammunition.
        I have made 17 trips to Camp Perry, Ohio to compete in the National Rifle Matches. From one thousand to three thousand fellow competitors had rifles and ammunition. Much of the ammunition was frequently loaded in magazines that could hold twenty rounds.
        At numerous rifle matches that I have concucted or competed in almost every person present had a rifle and ammunition. Much of the ammo was in magazines that held 20 rounds.
        I have hunted with companions who, like myself, had either a loaded rifle or shotgun.
        I have never seen anyone shot by a good guy. The number of guns is not the problem.
        The only “executive action” needed by Obama that would address the “gun viloence problem” is a recommendation to do away with “gun free” areas. Whether or not teachers, principals or workers at schools actually had access to guns, the threat that somebody could shoot back would be a deterrent to a Sandy Hook school incident, or could reduce the number of victims if such an incident should occur.
        Guns possessed by the good guys are not the problem.

      • Bill

        Eddie says:

        Blah Blah Blah, guns are bad…..Yawn

      • JeffH

        IT’S TIME TO PUNISH THE GUN GRABBERS(like eddie)
        Arlington, VA – America can punish the gun grabbers.

        Gun-grabbing media, political and business interests are bad news.

        They use murderous acts of a few to generate opposition to the rights of the many.

        They mislead public opinion against the civil right to keep and bear arms.

        They would leave citizens unable to protect themselves from violent criminals.

        Gun owners have had enough and will not take it anymore.

        It’s time to punish the gun grabbers.
        http://www.ammoland.com/2013/01/time-to-punish-gun-grabbers/#axzz2IGFXlJh3

        Molôn Labé!

      • Charlie

        eddie47d,,,
        Vicki did not let her ego, go far enough ,,,I say it’s time to impeach Obama , it’s way past time…
        Remember Obama stepped on The Constitution with the birth ID secrets ,,,now,,, he rubbing the
        Constitution as toilet paper … How far do you want to let him go???

      • http://google gary gerke

        As always, you revel in the anti-American anti constitution dribble your imposter in chief bloviates about on a daily basis. The civil war that started brewing over the last few years because of our governments rejection of the Constitution and bill of rights could happen sooner than later. There are 90-million gun owners in the USA today, that would be the largest UN-standing army in the world, including China’s. You and yours will lose in an armed confrontation! The US government will never totally disarm America…Maybe, you and yours!

      • Vicki

        Eddie47d writes:
        “If you don’t believe in any sensible laws or restraints on weapons then maybe you are the careless one..”

        Or just maybe I have noticed that inanimate objects pay as much attention to your “laws” or “restraints” as criminals do.

        - Eddie47d: “Not everyone wants to live in a world (US) that is awash in guns and for you to think so means you don’t give a damn about others as much as you think.”

        Or just maybe I do.
        “Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable . . . the very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that is good” (George Washington)
        http://www.godseesyou.com/2nd_amendment_quotes.html

        Now let’s take a close look into the meaning of YOUR motivations……..

      • Melissa

        Are you for real? If you really believe that guns are so bad and people don’t deserve to have them then why not move to a country that does not allow them? Wouldn’t that be less stressful than spending your life arguing with a population that believe in the laws this country is based on. We have had freedoms others have not because our ancestors didn’t want to live the life of a person controlled by big government. Our founders believed we had the right to certain freedoms and rights. Can you honestly go against the Constitution of the United States and still call yourself an American? Most people who own guns will never shoot a person in their lifetime. If we are to start talking about things that cause death then one must also consider things that cause more deaths than guns. Are we to also ban cars, trains, planes, alcohol, knives, wine corks, dogs, sports, the list goes on and on of things that kill more people than guns per year.

        Just saying if your so unhappy here I am sure there is a country somewhere that has all the things you will love. If you have a good skill Canada will take you, if not maybe Australia. Not sure about the laws for new citizens there, but I’m sure you could find out.

      • MexicansaysLibtardsRPukes

        Libtard eddie47donkey is having a Libtard meltdown! Libtards are out in force when truth hurts them the most!

    • manuel rosa

      did you see the picture of Obama signing his dirty orders with the presence of the little girl.
      are we suppose to have our wisdom imfluenced by the presence of children?
      Do children have the wesdom to make decisions?
      What is wrong with that creep that we call president?

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Irrelevant (and boring). Have you responded yet to my comment about the overuse of the “300 million” bit on the other thread?

      At least you have used one of the comments from your “Things for Shills and Trolls to Endlessly Repeat” list and can check it off on your “action log”, thereby justifying your paycheck. I do love that entrepreneurial spirit you all show at “Trolls-n-Shills-r-Us”.

      • Bill

        And Right Brain Thinker says;

        Blah Blah Blah, guns are bad…..Yawn

      • JeffH

        Half Wit Thinker, did it ever occur to you that perhaps Vicki is too smart for you and doesn’t play by your rules nor participate in your little half brained games?

        I know you can’t fathom the idea that any of us are intelligent or smart…but it’s true. Most of US even have morals, something you progressive shills know nothing about.

        Now chew on that for awhile and I’m sure you’ll come back with a bunch of half brained and half witted paragraphs of why everyone else is beneath you.

        Watch out for the boogeyman!

      • Mike in MI

        RongBrainedThinker -
        I know, it may come as a real shocker to you and a few others that visit here, but I ‘ve been coming to PLD for years now as my schedule allows. I’ve gotten used to seeing the familiar names and personal styles, senses of humor, research tendencies and believability of lots of us who have made PLD our personal favorite for a long time.
        When the old line libs were around and the only source of itch they at least have been honest, simple, real people. There have been a lot of them come and go.
        Then the president’s chicago political team of ideologues like assolerod and others decided to interfere with the national dialogue and send forth their mouthpieces.
        Your efforts and effects have been interesting to watch. The politics of personal destruction have worked on some and driven others away. (Doesn’t mean you’ve won a damn thing worthwhile.) The one’s who you have had least effective impact on are the ones who not only know their subjects best but are also most sure of their own spiritual Identities. JeffH, Vigilant, Warrior, cawmun cents, Samurai, Kate8, vicki, JAY, and others who are similarly unshakeable for more or less the same reason.
        You aren’t even a decent fog against their Gibraltar. But you, rongbrain, as a jackdaw-come-lately are a real propaganda artist. You claimed the other day to be a marine. If you were you’re a shame to the green. Go dispose of your Blues honorably, turn-coat. You have disgraced your vows and dissembled…

      • Guest

        What are you talking about RBT? In case you haven’t noticed this is a conservative site. Thus most posters here are conservatives and therefore in no need of a paycheck to express their opinions. It’s those like yourself who come here solely to disrupt and annoy who are the “trolls and shills”. If you don’t like what you’re hearing here then please feel free to navigate to a site where your nonsense will be better appreciated. Simple as that, huh?

      • Vicki

        Right Brain Thinker says:
        “Irrelevant (and boring). ”

        And yet here you are. Says something interesting about you.

        “Have you responded yet to my comment about the overuse of the “300 million” bit on the other thread?”

        Which one. There have been several?

        Oh and btw in the last 24 hours ~300 MILLION AMERICANS DIDN’T SHOOT ANYONE. STOP PUNISHING US.

        STOP IT
        STOP IT NOW.

      • JeffH

        Mike in MI, spot on and well said.

    • Bill

      You are so right, Vicki
      This is just another waste of taxpayer time and money.

      This is probably a diversion to keep us from not seeing that the lefts failed economic policies are creating more criminals and crime

    • JeffH

      National Coalition Responds to Obama’s Assault on the Second Amendment

      To Congress and the American people:

      The federal gun control measures President Barack Obama, Senator Dianne Feinstein and others now propose represents nothing less than an attack on American freedom. Included in that attack is a proposal to dramatically expand federal police powers by using the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to register millions of law-abiding gun owners. As history has repeatedly demonstrated, registration is the necessary prelude to confiscation.

      Using the Sandy Hook tragedy as a pretext to advance a gun control agenda set in the 1980s, gun ban advocates now seek universal registration and licensing, bans on firearms only cosmetically different from common hunting guns, and limits on magazine capacities which will restrict self-defense handguns used by millions of Americans to protect themselves and their families.

      ‘National Coalition to Stop the Gun Ban’ opposes all measures

      In response, the National Coalition to Stop the Gun Ban – comprising thirty-six (36) participating state and national organizations and still growing – has unified to defeat federal gun control legislation including, but not limited to, current proposals.

      The Coalition is not “the gun lobby.” We do not represent gun manufacturers, nor are we controlled by the NRA. Most Coalition leaders don’t even earn incomes from the organizations they direct. Instead, the Coalition represents what politicians should fear most: An organized grass roots movement to defend the Second Amendment and unseat those who would undermine American freedom.

      Presidential ‘usurpation of power’

      “usurpation: …the unlawful or violent seizure of a throne, power, etc.” – Webster’s Dictionary

      http://www.ammoland.com/2013/01/national-coalition-responds-to-obamas-assault-on-the-second-amendment/#ixzz2IGI9pSsK

      Molôn Labé!

  • J. LeSueur

    It’s a new low to exploit children for useless gestures, oh no I forgot, they were right in there on the day of the massacre They have to stop playing on and enhancing the paranoia
    How about establishing new mental health facilities and treatment then the majority of these incidents would not happen in the first place.

    • Warrior

      This “regimes ” use of 7 year old children as props is dispicable. The fact that “progressives” put 7 years olds up to writing letters to communicate their “desires” is dispicable. I’ll tell you what mr. usurper, why don’t you and your henchmen have your 7 year old write letters about ALL the benefits of “deficit spending” and “welfare”. You friggin clowns!

    • eddie47d

      Contraire! Its kids being killed with adult weapons. Since adults can’t convince other adults to finding ways to stop these massacres then the victims (kids) need to be front and center of the debate. Saying they are “useless gestures” proves how out of touch Americans are towards each other and the lives of children. Mental health should be improved and that is also a part of the plan. Will you approve of the huge amounts of money that will be needed to do so? I highly doubt it because it was part of the 1968 Gun Act but eventually was defunded.That was 45 years ago!

      • Vicki

        Eddie47d writes:
        “Will you approve of the huge amounts of money that will be needed to do so?”

        Why don’t you ask those children. They are the ones who will have to pay the bill.

      • eddie47d

        So YOUR answer is NO!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d writes:
        “Since adults can’t convince other adults to finding ways to stop these massacres then the victims (kids) need to be front and center of the debate.”

        ADULTS don’t need to convince other adults. Adults know the answer. Adults can and have found ways to stop these massacres so there don’t have to be any (or as many) victims to need to be front and center. With fewer kids, less of the money eddie is asking for, is needed. And as a plus the adult solution will REDUCE the cost of government (by a lot) so there will be MORE money for the fewer victims to share.

        The solution? End GUN FREE SCHOOL ZONES.
        http://www.therightscoop.com/nypd-detective-we-need-to-repeal-gun-free-school-zones/

  • Don the britton

    Same old song, the government fails so punish the law abiding citizen.

    • Vicki

      That’s why we have to tell them over and over again.

      ~300 MILLION Americans DID NOT GO MAD AND SHOOT ANYONE.

      STOP PUNISHING THE INNOCENT.

      STOP IT
      STOP IT NOW

      • eddie47d

        STOP YOUR continual STOP IT NOW crap for you are not as innocent as you think!!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “STOP YOUR continual STOP IT NOW crap for you are not as innocent as you think!!”

        I never claimed (till now) that I was innocent. But since you brought it up. I am one of the (wait for it……………………….)

        ~300 MILLION AMERICANS DID NOT SHOOT ANYONE.

        STOP PUNISHING THE INNOCENT.

        STOP IT
        STOP IT NOW

        (Oh and a link to show that when government has reduced the amount of punishment, gun violence (all violence actually) goes DOWN. http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493636 No you don’t have to buy the book. But now you know some search parameters for google)

  • http://printing-for-profit.com Gary

    The big shot is saying $4.5 billion so somebody write down $45 Billion and put it in a time capsule and see who is closer in 20 years.

  • Herbert

    I think Hes Opened up for more shootings in this Contrey with this Plan.

  • Prougenits Singh

    I think that the stinker in the White House wants to protect himself and those in his circle of friends from those who love America and would rise up and even consider taking over the government by force to prevent the path that he is taking Amerika on for the UN. Look at item#4 above and most of us reading the articles would fall into that category – Christians, law abiding citizens who are “right wingers”, patriots, and those who really want to own a gun for self & family protection. BO cannot turn Amerika over to the UN unless guns are only in the hands of those who agree with his agenda.

    It is very interesting that if you look at ALL the actions of this man who has stolen the presidency (by hook or by crook – mostly by crook) and compare them to the steps taken to power by one Adolf Hitler, one will find that although they match almost item-for-item, history will show that Black Hitler (ok mulatto) will most certainly make Adolf Hitler look like a saint by comparison to the horrible actions that have been taken to destroy America, and will soon terrify EVERY FREEDOM LOVING AMERICAN!

    • James Andrews

      It’s time for impeachment!

    • ibcamn

      Well Pro, just remember that most of the people who voted for this thin skinned man are the ones who are on the food stamp,welfare(ss),immagration program and gov’t workers and big union and out of country donations too!!and out of those groups,i would say some,a lot(% i have no idea)are responsible for a lot of drug related problems and murder and assault and break ins and car jackings and etc..etc…etc!!this man has the US taxpayer paying to keep his voters housed and fed and in this country(illegal immegrants,and illegal immegrants families)!so yes,he bought his votes and this(and the last)election was bought and paid for!!…you have to remember,Obama only won in the states that voters didn’t need I.D.’s to vote!!that obviouse and not one word about it!(thanks CNN)

  • ibcamn

    Now how many little ear marks or extras are in this new law(as in how much extra money) Obama put into action to take away our guns!..hey the republicans should of put a earmark in that says,if someone still dies after this law goes into effect,does this law get null n void??(because this law will do NOTHING to stop criminals from doing what they want)…you know for a man with such big ears,he sure don’t hear s@#t!!

    • ibcamn

      so on Obama’s list of rules the nation has to follow,do these rules apply to all gov’t workers too!??!look at the sheet the secret service pulled in their little whore party(i’m sorry,ladies of the evening)some of the police have severe issues with suicide and even murdering their wives and children,in the past and present!!and Obama wants to put weapons in the hands of more cops and firemen!(firemen have issues that suck too)and as we know,police have a god issues,so they(all gov’t employees) should be first on the table to be examend!!this law is gonna make things sooo much worse…..

      hey “WE THE PEOPLE”should figure out how to make these weapons just be accessories on a handgun…mmmm..you think??ask your local gun dealer(tell them cam sent ya) on how you could assemble and disassemble the assault style weapon for the range or hunting etc…see if they can sell it that way or as a pistol with accessories!!?!

    • eddie47d

      I take it you don’t like cops? Okay that’s fine and yes some of their toys should be taken away from them too!

  • TIME

    Dear People,

    Just an interesting side note: Have any of you ever seen all the pictures of, Hitler, Stalin and Mao with children all around them?
    Each time it was for an; ” AGENDA” to bring about the next step in their policies of “CHANGE”

    If you would all be so kind as to review what these “CHANGES” brought about, such as with Stalin, it brought about the deaths of over 50 MILLION people and the numbers are more in line with over 80 million in total, now thats some kind of change.
    With Hitler it brought about the deaths of 6 Million Jewish folks, and 5 MILLION folks with Physical handicaps, 3 – 4 Million Gypsy’s / Gays and others who were noted as of no value, the number of Religious orders ~ vary from 1.5 million to 2.9 million these were non Jewish. Let alone all the folks that just were of not the right blood, or skin tone number in the countless millions.
    Mao, The deaths of what we know by way of the { few survivors } at least 50 Million, but its believed that the numbers are more in line with 80 – 100 ~ Million.

    Its called Democide, and Barry OMEN is the next in that line of special people who will have thier names etched in the “BOOK OF HATE, DEATH, and DESTRUCTION.”

    And the really sad part about all this ~ is ~ no one even really knows his REAL NAME, Nor anything about him other than the special package the Mass media sold.

    Peace and Love, Shalom

    • eddie47d

      Thanks for the history lesson TIME but considering that there are Republican Conservatives who want the death penalty for gays should we call that Republicide?

      • TIME

        Dear Eddie,

        Saddly there are no such animals as: { Republican, nor, Democrat,} as I have said now TIME after TIME ~ its all saddly just an illusion for the mass’s, so as to keep them illiterate as well woefully ignorant of what really is.

        Thus Feckless opinions on subjects that the mass’s are completely uninformed on become the topic of the moment for the overt displays of the noted ~ Ignorance of TRUTH.

        Thus mindless rhetoric that is spun into blissfull topic’s that inflame and yet leave the mass’s still unfulfilled from any form of completion.

        Thus the continuum of: Perniciuos as well Malicious law’s – one right after the next, thus proving beyond any question ~ that there is only a party of ONE.

        It serves only to confound by its ~ two differant faces ~ yet ~ has the “same body” the “same mind” and last but not least the “same actions.”

        Peace and Love, Shalom

      • Mike in MI

        Sorry, eddie, but -
        We’d want to ask you to run that one past us again with something more stimulating on it than just what your signature assigns. Something to give it SOME authority, like any of Dr. Seuss’ books, dates, citations, bill numbers, links (no golf references, please) and if this is really real (and, in the public record) … names.
        Another thing I’d like to know is, were whatever those politicians said in relationship to euthanasia (you know … mercy killings?). That really would make a lot of sense to me. Why? Well, given what we know about what those people do to each other you’ve got to believe anything that can be done now is going to be way lots better than what will happen once Oblamitcare sets in.

      • Bill

        Eddie,
        Your remarks are starting to become juvenile. I think you are running out of material. You need to check with your handlers

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Thanks for the history lesson TIME but considering that there are Republican Conservatives who want the death penalty for gays should we call that Republicide?”

        Names eddie. Names. Absent any and with your credibility (0) I think we will ignore your proof by bald assertion.

      • JeffH

        Bill, 99% of his remarks are juvenile…5th – 8th grade level!

      • eddie47d

        Members of the Fundamentalist American Family Association !

      • eddie47d

        Are you talking about your Barrack…. Barrack comments? LOL!

      • Vicki

        Eddie proves JeffH’s assertion.

  • ibcamn

    Hey one quick note;this may not go with what we all are talking about,but i’m saying it(since i am no longer going to be politicaly correct)anyways,does anybody else find it weird that shortly after Biden had his talk with the video game company CEO’s or whatever,that the “kill the NRA leaders”video game came zipping out!!??!I’m sure they did not sit there and say nothing about a messed up game like that!!as you all know,these games arn’t developed over night!!i’m gonna say it,the comedy team of Obama Biden and the henchmen had everything to do with it!!(because BO and JB have not said dick about it!)and speaking of not saying dick,what about the father son team that went around the beltways and shot and killed people out of a hole in the trunk of their car(using a bolt action[was it]hunting rifle)and blammed it on others or religion or some sheet.but those two were total nut jobs,and yet BO and JB haven’t brought this up as an example,which someone should,or putting Holder in sharge of more gun stuff and things,this idiot isn’t qualified to run a paint ball arena let alone this gun law with the ATF!…FAST N FURIOUSE,hello!!!

    • eddie47d

      Maybe IBCAMN if you weren’t so dishonest in most of what you say you might have some relevancy. That video was put out by the NRA as a training tip for kids. We know you aren’t “politically correct” but you don’t have to lie to get there.

  • http://www.facebook.com/danny.lupinek Danny Lupinek

    The entertainment industry was only given a “love tap” in this power grab. Oh yeah, Obama doesn’t want to upset his peeps. I believe that many of the violent video games contribute to the sorry state we are in more than the guns themselves. Criminals will find ways of getting weapons. I am more concerned about government intrusion than a populace with weapons.

    • eddie47d

      Okay blame violent video games and mental health for that is valid but be equally concerned about the easy access to the weapons used in these killings. Enough of this feel good excuse that criminals will always be able to get their guns. Most criminals get their guns through legal sources and even buy them themselves. Controls just makes it harder for them to obtain their method of madness. We can’t always stop acts of violence but we can sure slow them down.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Okay blame violent video games and mental health for that is valid but be equally concerned about the easy access to the weapons used in these killings. ”

        And yet with all that easy access to weapons ~300 MILLION AMERICANS TOTALLY FAILED TO USE THAT ACCESS TO KILL ANYONE.

        STOP PUNISHING THE INNOCENT.

        STOP IT.
        STOP IT NOW.

      • eddie47d

        It ain’t working Vickie give it a rest! You can keep copy and pasting all the comments you want but you sound like a parrot!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “It ain’t working Vickie give it a rest! You can keep copy and pasting all the comments you want but you sound like a parrot!

        Best you hope I don’t train all the parrots to say it.

        In the mean time I get to do it.

        ~300 MILLION AMERICANS DID NOT SHOOT ANYONE.

        STOP PUNISHING THE INNOCENT.

        STOP IT
        STOP IT NOW

        (Oh and a link to show that when government has reduced the amount of punishment, gun violence (all violence actually) goes DOWN. http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493636 No you don’t have to buy the book. But now you know some search parameters for google)

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    A Little Gun Control History Lesson

    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. >From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christian s, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated…

    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million ‘educated’ people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the=2 020th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

    It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law20 to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:

    Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent. Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent. Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

    In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note, that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

    It will never happen here? I bet the Aussie’s said that to!

    While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that t heir prey is unarmed.

    There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY.

    Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

    YOU WON’T SEE THIS DATA ON THE US EVENING NEWS, OR HEAR POLITICIANS DISSEMINATING THIS INFORMATION.

    http://www.christian-blog.org/index.php?/archives/209-A-Gun-Control-History-Lesson-The-Dangers-of-Gun-Control.html

  • Wellarmed

    How this President and his ilk sleep at night with the weight of their convictions is beyond me. He and his supporters know dam well that simply removing the barrier to teachers and administrators who currently have a weapon permit to carry on campus is the only solution that has the greatest potential to mitigate the loss of life.

    Please notice I said mitigate the loss of life, not prevent. No law ( even 100% of teachers armed ) would not remove all doubt that another incident will occur.No teacher should be forced to carry a weapon under any circumstances, but they should be required to take basic defensive courses in how to defend themselves and their children in the event of an attack. There are many things one can do defensively to prevent a weapon from firing if one can get close enough to a shooter while they are reloading ( if they are reloading, as they may be carrying multiple guns ) it opens up far more options than just draping your body over a child and dying for the cause. Noble but stupid position. The teacher has to understand that even if unarmed they still have an opportunity to engage if they are presented with certain openings in and engagement which I refer to as key holes.

    Please tread lightly with the mental slams on LEOs and Firefighters. I may disagree with many of their stances of enforcing laws which are clearly unconstitutional, but I recognize that ultimately they are not district attorneys, and it is up to the jurist to allow those exercising their rights to remain free. Do not weasel out of jury DUTY! Is is OUR last chance to overturn unconstitutional law when all else fails.

    I do have grave concerns that any mental health evaluation system put in place by the Fed could ultimately become a far greater threat than registration requirements he is trying to implement. And to add fuel to the fire we all continually hear cases of LEOs who engage in illegal activities up to and including murder. And all of these officers undergo extensive background checks and psych evaluations. There is no 100% guarantee of security in a free society or in a full on police state. Psychopathic killers still roamed the streets of the USSR even though they had the KGB.

    • eddie47d

      Okay it may be wise for some teachers to be armed in some schools but I still think that is a bad idea. If a school needs security then they should either hire outside help or arm their administrators. My biggest concern for teachers is that when their back is turned who’s to say some kid won’t run up to him and grab his gun since it would be so readily available. If a kid knows teachers are armed why bother to sneak in their own guns. What better way to get back at a teacher you don’t like. Even administrators can be vulnerable such as that Tuesday shooting in St Louis at the Stevens Institute (college). Nobody stopped this student from bringing his firearm into the school and he shot the financial administrator then himself. Both lived but the administrator didn’t have a chance to respond with or without a gun.

      • Vicki

        And despite the (claimed) easy access to guns ~300 MILLION Americans did not shoot their teachers anytime in their lives.

        STOP PUNISHING THE INNOCENT

        STOP IT
        STOP IT NOW

      • Wellarmed

        I find it interesting that children in the great state of Alaska can receive a concealed weapon permit at the age of 16, and I doubt that many of them leave their weapon at home when heading out to school. Nothing beats getting torn to pieces by a grizzly on your way to a higher education! These children simply understand that they are a part of the food chain and they wish to remain at the top of the pyramid. Why do we not see mass shootings in Alaska from children who do not like the grades that the teacher gave them? Nothing other than a solid upbringing prevents it from happening, and many of these children may be living incredibly impoverished lives at home, and subject to abuse of the physical and mental variety.

        We must trust our teachers to do the right thing, and WE THE PEOPLE must not inhibit their ability to protect their children under their care. We should be providing every resource possible to make this happen now, but we do not because a certain percentage of Americans must be right no matter what the cost is in human life. I strongly suggest the next time this type of event happens that our elected officials get out of their offices, put on a HAZMAT suit and go help the first responders bag the dead and clean the entrails and brain matter off the floor and walls. The blood IS already on their hands, they just have yet to realize it.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Vicki makes a small change to her endlessly repeated, trite, meaningless, and just plain boring “300 million Americans” chant and seems to think it will have any more meaning than all the other variants thereof. Vicki is still refusing to answer my charge that she advocates arming decrepit old folks in nursing homes and infants via the “AR-15′s for Grannies” and “Derringers for Droolers” programs. She further won’t come near the question of whether it’s just common sense to have common sense gun regulation.

        STOP HIDING FROM ME, VICKI STOP IT STOP IT NOW

        Wellarmed may not be aware that we HAVE had a mass shooting in Alaska. A student (Evan somebody?) shot and killed his principal and another student, and wounded several others in the 1990′s. The list of school shootings in this country and abroad is lengthy and quite shocking—-look it up—–some of them were the “disgruntled employee” kind of thing but many were kids shooting adults or other kids (or adult students shooting other students in college). I would bet that the number of dead from that one shooting exceeds the “death by grizzly” count in Alaska substantially.

        As many on PLD know, I am a former school administrator of more than 20 years experience that ALWAYS thought I should have been armed and favor arming several people in each school right now. Alaska, like all other states, doesn’t allow anyone to carry in school and any kid that brought a gun into the building would be in big trouble. Even teachers CAN go nuts and we need to think very carefully about guns on school grounds in any way, shape, or form. and who we give them to—-empty rhetoric about blood and guts on the walls is just showboating (or doing a Rush the Gasbag imitation).

      • Vicki

        I’m not hiding RBT. You are just failing to keep up.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Vicki says: “I’m not hiding RBT. You are just failing to keep up”.

        Vicki is 100% correct, there, folks. I’m an old guy with tired legs, and she is running around so fast she looks like the Roadrunner (and going, BEEP-BEEP—300 AMERICANS—BEEP-BEEP) I look like Wiley Coyote in comparison (even though I have the Roadrunner’s brain and she has Wiley’s, so don’t be fooled). I was over on the other thread looking for her and accusing her of taking the day off, beating her brains out with rationality and logic in her absence, and here she is over here hiding and being “cute”.

        She still hasn’t answered my questions or refuted my arguments. Would you like me to restate them in on place, Vicki? I will if you promise to stand still long enough to read them and really answer them. I would like to know that this is the “smart” Vicki I’m talking to before I spend the time to do that, though. The “dumb” Vicki will only continue to be cute and babble on with the no logic “300 Americans” horsepucky, thereby wasting everyone’s time.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Only the people who could carry out fast and furious could say they are the people who need to take action on “common sense” gun control.

    Only the people who perfected the use of drone assassinations around the world could be trusted to fix the gun problem – as libs refer to it.

    Especially the people who allowed four Americans including an ambassador to be killed in Benghazi without lifting a finger, could say they are interested in protecting Americans: “if we can only save one life, we must act!”

    Just one, Joe? What about those four in Benghazi? And they saw that attack as it happened. You can’t even protect an ambassador and the consulate in Libya — after “liberating it” — but you are out to protect Americans at all costs? Where was Biden’s time for action comments on Fast and Furious? You must have missed that one, Joe.

    Trust Obama, Biden and the Party that will go to any length to “preserve the right” of a woman to kill her baby, to look out for you and save the lives of children. And then they’ll have you believe the only thing that stands in their way of saving Americans’ lives is the NRA.

    Mark Levin puts their gun control fetish in perspective comparing it with what they did on
    DDT. “This is how government works,” he says.

    Listen here:
    http://www.therightscoop.com/mark-levin-puts-bidens-even-if-we-can-save-just-one-life-we-must-act-comment-in-proper-perspective/

    • eddie47d

      Your comments were fair game against this administration WTS but way overblown. You always come up with scenarios that have to be funded like the Benghazi Consulate yet continually allow the Republicans to defund or weaken their ability to protect our foreign adventures. I know we shouldn’t have even gone into Libya but that was mostly a NATO mission. Our government can win wars but seldom win the peace that should follow. Obama should have said no to the British and the French and simply stated we can’t afford the mission. Yet we have always been too eager to be king of the hill whether in Iraq,Lebanon or Libya. The best solution is to pull most of our troops back and stop being the policemen of the world. When it come to guns in America even the police are sick of all the weapons out there and are tired of being the targets of the right wing fanatics. No different than back in the 60′s when they were targets of left wing fanatics.

      • Wellarmed

        The fact that I have finally found ground to agree with you on a topic required me to state it. American Imperial Dominance is about to come to an end. We are not the worlds police force nor do we need to be subsidizing their security ( Europe ) so they can continue on their self destructive socialist binge. I am no longer willing to fund their socialist ideology when our nation is amassing tremendous debt with no intention of ever being able to rectify our borrowing addiction.

        Any country that does not recognize basic human liberty should not receive a dime of support from the USA. We must back up our nations principles with our actions, and maybe the world will begin to respect us once more. Force alone does not equal respect.

        As far as the police are concerned, they should not be afraid of law abiding citizens with arms and should even allow those who wish to to train with them in proper uses and tactics. I know many in my neck of the woods who can defy logic with the accuracy of their weapons, and would be of great value to law enforcement should the need arise.

        When America first threw off the chains of British oppression, most jurisdictions did not allow police to carry weapons due to the numerous abuses the citizens suffered at their hands of their protectors. Police could only utilize a whistle to summon the citizens to come to their aide. Although I do not advocate that police go unarmed in any circumstance on or off duty, I do find it noble that we were all in in together at the start.

    • JeffH

      Jay, did you hear that faint buzzing noise down around your “taint”? Not to worry, it’s just that little commie eddie buzzing around like a gnat.

      • eddie47d

        Yes Jeff H we hear you usual puny remark. Now skedaddle back to your bunker for the night before the alarm goes off and leaves you out in the cold. You’ve been told on several occassions your name calling is nothing more than your IQ talking.

      • JeffH

        This is for Bill…another fine example of the juvenile remarks by the infantile pro-communist eddie.

      • Bill

        Hi Jeff
        We should quit feeding the fire of the liberal poster on this site. All they want to do is push a political agenda with no desire whatsoever to protect the children. The “It’s for the children” has been used up in their political rhetoric. Eddie even likes to get dramatic in his presentation

        They are just like the door to door salesman. And when they make comments expecting a reply, we should all reply with “Not Interested”

        No matter how many lies they say, we are not interested poverty and tyranny, we are interested in freedom and prosperity

      • JeffH

        Bill, I hear you and that’s been tried many times. It took me a while to figure eddie out, that he was a straight up shill. He’s not a paid shill mind you but about as ignorant a shill as they come. We’ve endured his stupidity for over 3 years now and I’ve tried to ignore him but I came to the conclusion that he hasn’t one iota of morals. He’s been a pr oven liar over and over, is a slanderer, been suspended at times by PLD and his comments are now under permanent moderation. I just decided that I would make eddie my own personal progressive whipping boy and I won’t let up, barring suspension from PLD.

        As for the rest of the shills and trolls, paid or not, they can be ignored. Outing them at every turn and not responding to their baseless and useless rhetoric is the key to defeating them. Play by your rules, not theirs, and they get tongue tied, frustrated and tied up in knots trying to bait you. Because their basic strategy is the same throughout, they’re easy to figure out and even easier to frustrate. That’s a good thing and my basic philosophy for dealing with them is to have a strong offense and never play defense.

      • Bill

        Go Get um, Jeff
        Take no prisoners

      • eddie47d

        Once again Poor Jeff H makes silly remarks about me but can’t stand the heat when I poke back. Now he has to run to his new best friend Bill and whisper sweet lies in his ears without confessing his own lies about himself! You are one programmed dude Jeff!

      • JeffH

        I’ll tell you what eddie. Monday I’m starting a new poll. It’s simple and straight to the point.

        Vote once only: Has Eddie47D been the most consistant liar here at PLD?

        YES or NO

        I’ll be posting that question late on Sunday evening.
        __________________________________________
        Most of us remember how the last poll about your lack of credibility went. The final tally ws 20 – 0 that you had no credibility and not one liberal/progressive stood up in your defense. I know you remember but I’m sure you will try to deny that it.

    • Wellarmed

      Right brain thinker. Did you read what I posted?

      Did I not say that arming teachers would not be a 100% guarantee that they could not be murdered in their school?

      Based on the facts that a 16 year old can get a weapon permit in Alaska, why are their not many if not hundreds of murders in the streets?

      Again you make my point very clear that gun free zones invite violence and create soft targets. I wish children could just be children and teachers could just be teachers and not security guards/cop added to their job description. My wife happens to be a public school teacher so this does affect me directly. When she gets information from students that someone is going to shoot up the school during the kids year end Christmas Performance what the hell do you think goes through my mind?

      I have A CCW but it does forbid me from carrying my weapon on campus and her state also happens to NOT recognize my permit. I split my time between a free state and a police state so I get to feel the freedoms that I have disappear every time I cross the state line. As a three gun enthusiast I think I can handle myself as well as any cop, and often I go to the range with other LEOs.

      She asked me what do you think I should do? Cancel her performance? Not invite me and her mom which happens to be a family tradition that I take the day off to see. By doing so I let the dirt bag win, and I told her that if she felt it was a very high probability for violence to occur that I wanted to be there. There were under covers in the audience, in the light box, at all entrances and exits and they were all ARMED, just not me!

      I am sick and tired of hearing the same line of BS over and over again. We tried it your way ( gun free zones ) and it DID NOT WORK! Now we will do it our way. If you wish to be a victim and cower in a corner while some deranged pile of worthless human excrement unloads his weapon/stabs/bombs defenseless children be my guest. I do not care what the method to their madness or their psychosis happens to be. It is NOT my concern at the point that they attempt to due children harm.

      As far as me helping clean up others brain matter, and body parts I have done so as a volunteer first responder, so if others seem to take note of my wacky sense of writing style maybe their is a hint of truth to their statements. Any one goes headlong into a burning building to save someones bacon you do not know, and receive zero pay IS partly nuts. I hope I never get to the point that I feel the need to surrender my weapons to a family member as a result of depression due to what I have seen, but if I do it will be between me and them and not the government. They know me well enough to broach the subject if they feel something is amiss. Other members of my department have committed suicide and so I am acutely aware of the danger.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        I most certainly read your comment, Wellarmed, as well as all the other comments you have made on this thread. I don’t find a whole lot to disagree with in what you have said in any of them except in this one.

        I actually wonder if you really read mine. Here it is in its entirety.

        “Wellarmed may not be aware that we HAVE had a mass shooting in Alaska. A student (Evan somebody?) shot and killed his principal and another student, and wounded several others in the 1990′s. The list of school shootings in this country and abroad is lengthy and quite shocking—-look it up—–some of them were the “disgruntled employee” kind of thing but many were kids shooting adults or other kids (or adult students shooting other students in college). I would bet that the number of dead from that one shooting exceeds the “death by grizzly” count in Alaska substantially.”

        “As many on PLD know, I am a former school administrator of more than 20 years experience that ALWAYS thought I should have been armed and favor arming several people in each school right now. Alaska, like all other states, doesn’t allow anyone to carry in school and any kid that brought a gun into the building would be in big trouble. Even teachers CAN go nuts and we need to think very carefully about guns on school grounds in any way, shape, or form. and who we give them to—-empty rhetoric about blood and guts on the walls is just showboating (or doing a Rush the Gasbag imitation)”.

        If you are looking for an argument (as you seem to be), you won’t find it in what I said there. Or are you just pumped up and in need of doing a “gasbag Rush” on us rather than think and make good arguments (as you did in some other comments here)?

        You say, “Based on the facts that a 16 year old can get a weapon permit in Alaska, why are their not many if not hundreds of murders in the streets?”
        That’s just gasbag Rush rhetoric and a non sequitur, and not related to anything I said in my comment.

        You say, “Again you make my point very clear….” Not so, I don’t totally disagree with you but nothing I said leads to that conclusion. Just more gasbag Rush rhetoric.

        You say, “I have A CCW but it does forbid me from carrying my weapon on campus”, and your statement that “I think I can handle myself as well as any cop”. That and other things you’ve said in this comment makes me say “Good thing you’re forbidden”, because you sound like someone who could do dangerous things with a gun—I certainly wouldn’t want you in my school with your gun.. And I believe the laws in Alaska DO permit guns to be brought into the schools WITH PERMISSION.

        It sounds as if the school folks and the police took reasonable steps in the “threats were made” situation.. I had to deal with way more than a few of those myself and it would not have been up to your wife to cancel “her” performance in my school. The only decision she would be allowed was whether she herself would participate or not. If the “powers that be” decide the show will go on after due consideration of all facts, the show will go on. And no amount of histrionics and gas bagging rhetoric alters that.

        And you are really getting carried away by your need to “bloviate” here with the “gun free zone” and “YOUR way” horsepucky. As I said, you must not have read my comment or you would know that I FAVOR guns in schools. Or maybe you love being up on your soap box too much and that has clouded your judgment? I am sick and tired of hearing YOUR line of BS and more of the same from others.

        “Now we will do it our way”, you say. in a frenzy of chest beating?—-pray tell what that “way” is, so that I can decide whether to agree or disagree with you..

        Now you are really losing it with the gasbagging rhetoric and chest beating. “If you wish to be a victim and cower in a corner while some deranged pile of worthless human excrement unloads his weapon/stabs/bombs defenseless children be my guest. I do not care what the method to their madness or their psychosis happens to be. It is NOT my concern at the point that they attempt to do children harm”. Bravo!

        I had to deal with a lot of “deranged” in my 20+ years on the job, including a few guns—I was never “armed” beyond having my body and some USMC training, and am here writing this only because I have had a whole squad of guardian angels watching over me all my life—I’ve nearly died or been killed more times than I can count on one hand. That’s why I WANTED TO BE ARMED THEN and think some folks in the schools should be NOW.

        So, please don’t try to use me as an excuse when you get an urge to spout some gasbagging rhetoric. Either find someone else who has REALLY given you a target and blame it on them, or just announce to all “I’m going to make a speech!” and then do it.

        All that having been said, your last paragraph does explain things a bit. I sense that you are feeling some pain there and that is perhaps what drove you a bit too far in your earlier comments. I only had to deal with cuts and blood and some broken bones during my years in the schools—mine and others—body parts and brains only in another time and place that I try not to think about.

        From what you’ve said there, maybe you need to talk to someone about all of it BEFORE your family finds themselves in a bad position that they may not be able to handle—be fair to them. It’s called PTSD and cops, firemen, and even a few school administrators can suffer from it. Using the term “acutely aware” on top of a few other words you chose makes my school administrator’s “antennae” vibrate. Seek some help.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      WTS/JAY earns the “Goebbels-Hitler Award for Creative Propaganda” today with this posting. After five quick shot in the dark statements, JAY offers a citation that will “prove” the correctness of what he says. Well guess what, folks? Lying JAY has done it again when he says that his clip will prove nothing that he claims, never mind show us anything much about “perspective”.

      I should change my PLD handle to “I waste my time with JAY so you don’t have to”, because listening to this audio clip of Levin’s babblings is 13 minutes of wasted time for anyone who has enough science background to pick out Levin’s errors. It’s ignorant propaganda, pure and simple, and is designed to further mislead those who don’t know the facts.

      Jay says, “Mark Levin puts their gun control fetish in perspective comparing it with what they did on DDT. “This is how government works,” Levin says”.

      Most significant is that Levin doesn’t even mention Biden or gun control until 12-1/2 minutes have elapsed. That’s right, only the last 30 seconds of the tape have anything to do with what JAY “advertised” and that 30 seconds is just the usual mindless talking points—-many on PLD have made the same arguments and done a better job than Levin did here.

      So what DID Levin spend 12-1/2 minutes talking about, you ask? I can answer that because I DID manage to hang on for the whole thing, and even went back to listen to a couple of parts to make sure I got them right. Before I get into that, let me say that Levin is a “junior Rush Limbaugh”, i.e., a gasbag who has pimped himself out for money. Fortunately, Levin is not as pompous, self-righteous, or devious as Rush, and certainly not as smart. That makes him a bit easier to listen to—you almost feel sorry for him when you hear him talk about things he has no understanding of as he makes an ass out of himself.

      On to the “substance” of Levin’s message. He spent 12-1/2 minutes talking about DDT—-mainly about how it was a “good” chemical and how “bad” SOMEBODY had been for banning it. He tries to pin that on O’Bama, even though O’Bama was in junior high school when the DDT controversy was in full swing. It sounded like Levin really has no idea what he’s saying and read the whole thing from a script—-he stumbled in several places, particularly when he talked about DDT being a wonderful “contact poison for anthropods”. Those of you with any science knowledge will be laughing out loud at that. Levin meant to say arthropods, the group to which insects belong. The term anthropod is a bit nonsensical but relates more to humans, so Levin in effect said DDT was a great poison for humans, which was what he spent the entire time denying. Talk about tripping over both sides of your mouth.

      Couple that with the facts that the “DDT Wars” occurred over 40 years ago and have been long settled (DDT was banned for use in the U.S. in the early 1970’s), we have developed better alternative pesticides for many uses, DDT is STILL used in the third world as a last resort (contrary to Levin’s claims), and NOBODY IN THE O’BAMA ADMINISTRATION IS TALKING ABOUT DDT AT ALL, and Levin’s attempt to “connect” anything there fails badly, as does JAY’s blatant misuse of truth and abuse of everyone’s trust by posting this clip.

      In case anyone was unaware, DDT is a “persistent” chemical (meaning it doesn’t break down quickly), accumulates in tissues as it moves up the food chain, and is a human carcinogen. It was banned because it was found to be a “bad” chemical, even though many “good” things were said about in its early days before those discoveries were made.

      The book “Silent Spring” was so titled because Rachel Carson posited in it that we would one day have a “silent spring” if we didn’t stop using persistent and bio-accumulative pesticides like DDT. Why silent? No birds. Why no birds? One of the first discoveries about DDT was that it caused the eggshells of birds to thin and become so fragile that they broke before hatching, thus killing the unborn chicks—-we almost lost the bald eagle in the lower 48 states and the pelicans in many areas because of this phenomenon

      • Right Brain Thinker

        PS Typo in last sentence, first paragraph—-got “anything and nothing” confused.

  • john

    Sandy Hohttp://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/16lkhq/this_sandy_hook_conspiracy_video_has_been_making/c7xjgzrok was a Hoax

  • Ried

    Eyewash and window dressing. Potemkin actions for a nice photo op with the kids and an opportunity to look like he’s taken serious steps while not doing much of anything new. The empty suit president strikes again.

  • brotherpatriot

    My research leads me to conclude that the Sandy Hook shooting was a Hoax or in the very least didn’t happen like the Main Stream Media’s painted picture is trying to tell us. The best presented (I cross researched much of this presented & found it to be true) format to reveal this information is the following link.

    http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/the-sandy-hook-shooting-exposed-did-sandy-hook-really-happen/ULHKtjyTCrzyZgO_R72RUQ

    God Bless.

    • Mike in MI

      Selah and Amen

  • David Cook

    Borak Obama is the only President who has never responded to a letter that I have written with regards to a subject of concearn or a question as to how to comply with a Presidential Directive. He simply does not care about the American People. He is a fake and insensative person who seems to only have one goal. “Do it my way, or the Highway”. He simply will not compromise. He has already run this country into the ground and has dug a hole so big regarding the deficit that it will be impossible to ever recover. He is following Adolf Hitlers strategy to pit the American people against each other in order to take away our freedoms one by one until he ultimatley finds himself in complete control of our entire country no matter how he has to do it. He will kill us all in the end.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    I can respect people for opposing the cost. In this case I think the cost is necessary. You may not agree with all of the points in the Presidents plan. If so I would like to hear the objections other than the cost.

    • Vicki

      How about if you think the cost is necessary YOU pay the cost.

  • Dave67

    Where is the “Gun Grab” the the proposals laid out by Obama? I read the proposals… They are all common sense measures who aim is to curb gun violence, increase response time to violent acts and help law enforcement catch the bad guys.

    But what we get from the conservative wackos here is that anyone should be allowed to have any gun at any momnet they want one, no training on proper use or storage, no psych evaluation to see if they should be owning a gun, no national database for tracking guns (the nuts are ok though with a database for their car)

    These nuts do not care about how many people die as long as they are not inconvenienced. That is typical for selfish and arrogant conservatives and libertarians. They throw words around like “freedom” often as most fascists do but along with freedom comes responsibility, society, country… they could care or less about those last 3 terms.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Dave I think there is a reasonable discussion to be had but the reason often gets lost in the shouting match. One of the principle arguments I hear from people of all mentalities is the issue of government over reach and where the line must be drawn. I will play devils advocate here. As a hypothetical a ” national database for tracking guns” would be very useful for oppressing the people should tyranny ever take control. I think in and of itself its a valid point. I think that what many on this site are trying to do is to be watchful of the potential for tyranny and dictatorship to rise. Now you may consider such ideas crazy. Personally I do not deny in a world whose history has examples of republics succumbing to tyranny that even our republic could perhaps be susceptible. So I agree with some of the Conservatives and Libertarians on this site that we must be watchful of government. I agree that we need to maintain militias and remain devoted to the freedoms expressed in the first and second amendment. Where I think we differ is on the level of threat and how to respond to said threat. I do not doubt that the virus of tyranny exists and that even the healthiest of Republics have fallen victim to it. But I believe that some Conservatives and Libertarians have turned into political hypochondriacs on certain issues. The ever present fear of the rise of tyranny has resulted in a refusal to do things which may in fact make us healthier as a society and nation. The ever present fear of the Gestapo or the NKVD has resulted in an unwillingness to place any real trust in the police. The basic debate boils down to this. I believe that many Conservatives and Libertarians are concerned about the potential future to the point that they have lost sight of the real present. Whilst I believe many Conservatives and Libertarians feel that people like you and me are so caught up in trying to deal with the present moment that we have lost sight of the potential consequences that may arise in the future. I feel both view points have some validity. We need to be watchful of the future and the potential problems that may arise. But we must also attend to the real issues of the present. What I think we need for the national dialogue is try to have less of the Piers Morgans and the Alex Jones. Less of the Wayne Lapierres and James Yeagers. These people do not represent the groups they speak for and yet they are the faces of the gun control debate. Not all Gun Control supporters want to outright ban guns or blame gun owners for the violence in this country. And not all all Gun Rights advocates oppose any and all regulations on guns or want everyone to have guns. We all have valid opinions and beliefs and arguments to make and we should make them.

      • Dave67

        Jeremy,

        I do not support taking away guns… 1) its just not possible 2) There is nothing wrong with the “gun” itself.
        I shoot guns when I go camping for target practice. I got to shoot a “tommy” gun at the FBI shooting range and that was fun.

        What needs to change is this country’s attitude that guns are toys and that violence is glorified and those who perform it are as well. I see nothing wrong with better means to deal with violent acts, better mental helath access and treatment (Israel requires a psych evaluation and a 60 day waiting period and I support that in this country.

        Its on all of us to change the attitude of this country and Obama’s proposals I believe are solid starting points. There is no “gun grab” going on here. There is only common sense gun control and violence measures that the MAJORITY of people in this country support. There are too many loud nutballs on the right that just don’t get it and give in to their paranoid delusions. Many come here and post about how awful Obama is.

        We are past the point of doing nothing and letting Wayne LaPierre and his ilk continue their lavish lifestyles on the backs of tens of thousands of dead men, women and children. Its nice to see some GOPers like Gov Christie of NJ stand up to these jackbooted thugs in the NRA. They care about NRA membership and could give a rats behind about the killing with guns being done every day in the streets of our cities, towns and states.

        Enough.

      • Vicki

        Dave67 says:
        “We are past the point of doing nothing and letting Wayne LaPierre and his ilk continue their lavish lifestyles on the backs of tens of thousands of dead men, women and children.”

        And WE are WAY PAST TIRED of being punished for the acts of a few criminals.

        ~300 MILLION OF US NEVER SHOT ANYONE.

        STOP PUNISHING US. STOP IT.

        STOP IT NOW.

      • Dave67

        Vicki,

        So we should take down traffic signs, stop lights etc because the few who do not understand the “rules of the road” too?

        Use your head.

      • Vicki

        Dave67 says:
        “Vicki, So we should take down traffic signs, stop lights etc because the few who do not understand the “rules of the road” too?”

        You mean signs like this one?
        http://www.compliancesigns.com/NHE-16347.shtml

        I think we should not take them down just because of the few who do not understand the “rules of a free society”.

        - Dave67: “Use your head.”

        Have you considered using your own sage advice?

      • Bill

        Jeremy and Dave 67
        Not interested in anything you are selling, now run along.

      • Dave67

        Bill,

        Must be great in the info bubble you and your fellow conservatives live in. Can’t have anything or anyone challenge your belief system… that kind of thing is scary isn’t it?

      • Dave67

        Ok Vicki,

        That sign is silly but give me your solution to the issue of gun violence and gun deaths in America. I am sure you have a solution instead of complaining right?

      • Vicki

        Dave67 says:
        “Ok Vicki,

        That sign is silly but give me your solution to the issue of gun violence and gun deaths in America. I am sure you have a solution instead of complaining right?”

        Of course I have a solution.

        ~300 MILLION AMERICANS DID NOT SHOOT ANYONE.

        STOP PUNISHING THE INNOCENT.

        STOP IT
        STOP IT NOW

        (Oh and a link to show that when government has reduced the amount of punishment, gun violence (all violence actually) goes DOWN. http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493636 No you don’t have to buy the book. But now you know some search parameters for google)

      • Dave67

        Vicki, clearly you need some help on what the term “solution” means…. What you gave is called a “slogan”. Yours is about as effective as Queen Nancy Reagan’s “Just say no” campiagn in the 80s.

    • Bill

      I will interpret for the rest of us;
      Dave67, Jeremy, Mark and Eddie say:

      Blah, Blah, Blah, Guns are bad, you are not smart enough to own one and it’s for the children

      • Dave67

        A simple reply from a simple man… That is the problem with you conservatives… ZERO critical thinking skills

      • JeffH

        Bill, spot on and that’s pretty much the way it is. :)

      • JeffH

        D67, and your critical thinking skills are???

        Here’s D67′s and the general thinking skill of the Progressive/liberal.

        Critical thinking varies according to the motivation underlying it. When grounded in selfish motives, it is often manifested in the skillful manipulation of ideas in service of one’s own, or one’s groups’, vested interest. As such it is typically intellectually flawed, however pragmatically successful it might be.

        That my conservative and patriotic friends is exactly how the anti-American progressives like D67 think.

      • Dave67

        JeffH is patriotic… HAHAHA… You got that I hate guns and think guns are bad from what I have said JeffH? There you go again with your “red into” glasses.

        I love the superiority complex your conservatives suffer from. You are no Patriot if you buy into half the crap that gets said here on these baords.

      • JeffH

        Superiority complex? Excuse me while I try to stop laughing and such an ignorant statement. Peek in the mirror troll and you’ll find another progressive that suffers from a superiority complex.

        C’mon D76, you’re beginning to sound more like eddie every day.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Warning and Disclaimer

    THE ASSEMBLY OF AN IMPROVISED GUN CAN LEAD TO SERIOUS TROUBLE IN TWO WAYS:

    1. The gun can anger a totalitarian regime in which you live, causing the regime to imprison or kill you.

    2. If you even make the smallest mistake during your assembly, the laws of physics may maim or kill you.

    Ted Kaczynski’s Homemade Gun

    Ammunition

    The main objective of a gun is to fire ammunition effectively and safely towards a target. In order to learn how to make a gun, it is necessary to first understand ammunition.

    Modern day ammunition is composed of four main components:

    1. A piece of lead or other type of soft metal which is referred to as a bullet.

    2. A small amount of smokeless gunpowder, which creates an exorbitant quantity of gas as it burns. The gas in turn projects the bullet through the barrel of the gun and towards the target.

    3. A very small amount of pressure sensitive explosive which ignites the smokeless gunpowder on fire. This is referred to as the primer.

    4. A steel or brass casing which holds the bullet, the powder, and the primer.

    All of these pieces together are called the cartridge.

    The bullet will be positioned in one end of the casing and the primer will be positioned on the other end. .22 caliber ammunition is rim-fire ammo. This means that the primer is stored in the rim of the cartridge. Most other calibers, however are center-fire, meaning that the primer in this ammunition is stored in the center of the end of the cartridge.

    Gun Barrel

    Every gun must have a barrel. A pistol or handgun may have a barrel of roughly a few inches, and a shotgun or rifle may have a barrel 16 inches or longer.

    Within production quality firearms, pistol and rifle barrels have tiny grooves cut inside of them. The grooves do not run straight, however are curved slowly throughout the length of the barrel. This technique is called rifling. Rifling causes the bullet to spin as it passes through the barrel. The spinning assists in stabilizing the bullet and making the gun more accurate.

    Most hand made guns lack rifled barrels, because the rifling process is difficult to create in a situation where improvisation is necessary.

    Improvised guns commonly use water pipe or steel pipe for barrels. Steel pipe will make a very effective shotgun barrel, and the steel pipe will serve as a short barrel very well. For a rifle barrel, steel pipe is not very effective.

    An important choice concerns what type of caliber your improvised firearm will utilize, however that should be determined by whatever ammunition you have readily accessible. .357 ammunition. 3/4″ pipe will hold 12 gauge shotgun ammunition and 1/4″ pipe will hold .380, 9mm, .38.

    The Firing Pin

    Careful with this step because the primer is extremely pressure sensitive. Therefore, when you strike the primer hard, it explodes. The word primer is derived from “primary explosive”, meaning this substance is the explosive that detonates first and is solely responsible for detonating the secondary (larger) charge.

    Smokeless gunpowder on the other hand, is a very safe material. This gunpowder can be safely stored, transported and burned. Smokeless gunpowder is only useful (and dangerous) when it is ignited in a confined space, ie: when it is ignited inside the ammunition cartridge.

    The primer however is protected behind a thin metal wall. The primary job of the firing pin is to strike that thin metal wall fast and hard. The primer is pressure sensitive. When it is struck by the firing pin, the primer will detonate, which will create a flame, igniting the smokeless gun powder.

    The Breech Block

    Once the smokeless powder is ignited, the powder will create an exceptional amount of gas. This gas will push the bullet out of the front of the gun. You must ensure that the gas does not push the cartridge casing out the rear of the firearm, because this could be deadly for the person firing the weapon.

    The rear of the firearm is referred to as the breech. In order to prevent the cartridge casing from exiting through the breech, the breach must be blocked somehow. The function used to to this is called the breech block.

    In constructing your improvised firearm, the breech block is the most difficult part and can be highly varied. These piece can be inputted from whatever looks sturdy and is available. It is a very complicated piece because it must block the breech while allowing the firing pin access to the primer.

    One common example and good form of a breech block is a basic pipe cap with a hole drilled into it for the firing pin.

    The Trigger

    It is necessary for the firing pin to strike the primer fast and hard. The best way to accomplish this task is to make the firing pin rest naturally against the primer and use some force to pull the trigger away from the primer.

    This force usually is made up of a set of strong elastic or rubber bands or a set of metal springs. These items are attracted to the firing pin and the firing pin is pulled back. When the firing pin is released, the pin strikes the primer and causes the gun to fire.

    Within production quality firearms, a block is usually placed within the front of the firing pin to prevent accidental discharge if the firing pin is struck or if the weapon is dropped. Very few improvised weapons will have such a device. Please be careful!

    http://www.gunslot.com/blog/how-make-gun-common-materials-self-defense

    • Dave67

      Where is your directions on how to make a IED? A nuke? How about how to build a M1A Battletank?

      You got those diections? Because if your paranoid delusion came true and the military tried a coup and succeed. Those are the weapons they have… But you have your AR-15. Good for you. You will be the first to be mowed down.

      Self-defense? I hate to burst your bubble but the statistics show that if you own a gun, you are more likely to be the victim of a domestic dispute or other altercation where you are shot with your own gun than you will protect yourself from “bad people”. A person with a gun who doesn’t know how to use it properly or is not trained to handle such instances is a prime candidate for a body bag.

      • Dennis48e

        “I hate to burst your bubble but the statistics show that if you own a gun, you are more likely to be the victim of a domestic dispute or other altercation where you are shot with your own gun than you will protect yourself from “bad people”.”

        Two million or more people a year would dissagree with that assumption. That being the two million plus people who use a firearm to stop/prevent a drime.

      • Vicki

        And approx 300 MILLION people didn’t shoot anyone.

        STOP PUNISHING THE INNOCENT.

        STOP IT
        STOP IT NOW

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Dave67: I hate to burst your bubble but the statistics show that if you own a gun, you are more likely to be the victim of a domestic dispute or other altercation where you are shot with your own gun than you will protect yourself from “bad people”.

        Really? So tell me something; why am i not part of those fabricated-statistics? I have owned guns for years. I held a gun in my hand before i could walk. There was no domestic violence in my house. I fact, i have yet to meet one person who has been the victim of domestic gun-violence. Not one! Not one neighbour, not one friend or associate! Where are all these people that would fit into those statics? The statistics you mentioned are fabricated, they do not exist! They are for the purpose to spread fear, ignorance and paranoia! Nothing more! Nice try…

      • Dave67

        Funny Jay, spreading fear and ignorance is what conservatives do all so well. I am talking nationwide Jay, not “your house”. Maybe you are responsible, maybe you are trained on the proper use AND storage of weapons Thats great… EVERYONE should be subject to the same training. Growing up in VA in the NRA’s back yard I can tell you how many drunk NRA members go into the woods with their guns and sit in their tree stands… I can tell you the stories of people picking up their gun because someone cheated at cards, or two lovers got into an arguement and someone was so angry they used their gun and someone died. Or that someone cut someone off in traffic and it made them so mad that they decided to “get even” with a gun. Or how about the woman that shot her husband because he would not let her have the remote control for 20 years… Those were just some of the stories reported by sherriff’s departments to the FBI when I worked there collecting data on crime statistics. So once again you are full of it.

        This is no gun grab, this is the beginning to teach people sanity when it comes to weapons, to make sure those with mental issues have a harder time getting guns and to help law enforncement do their jobs… It did not help back in the 1990′s when the GOP put in amendments to bills that prevented the ATF from enforcing many of the gun laws on the books that we did have. Thanks NRA. The NRA doesn’t care about how many people die. They only care about membership and power. their fascism is being exposed.

        If you are a responsible gun owner, these new proposals do not hurt your ability to own guns. Jay, you and the rest of the paranoids need to get over yourselves.

      • Vicki

        Dave67 says:
        “Funny Jay, spreading fear and ignorance is what conservatives do all so well.”

        I didn’t think that you would claim to be a conservative. Yet you obviously are spreading ignorance and fear with your comment designed to claim that statistics prove you are more at risk of violence because there is a gun in the home.

        Well try this statistic. It is easy to look up on the net. It also is a self evident truth.

        ~300 MILLION AMERICANS DIDN’T SHOOT ANYONE IN THEIR HOME.

        STOP PUNISHING US.
        STOP IT
        STOP IT NOW

      • Bill

        See Dave 67,
        I wrote your post for you in simplicity and now you are elaborating along the lines of “your not smart enough to own guns”

        Sorry, not interested in any of your BS

      • Dave67

        OK Vicki and Bill and Jay,

        What is your solutions for the extraordinary high levels of gun violence and death in this country. What would you do? It seems all you three are good for is poo pooing anything Obama or anyone who you disagree with politically does.

        Give your solutions to the issue.

        I await your responses.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        WTS/JAY throws up a nice horsepucky screen in an effort to deflect attention from the truth behind Dave67′s remarks. Dave67 said:

        “I hate to burst your bubble but the statistics show that if you own a gun, you are more likely to be the victim of a domestic dispute or other altercation where you are shot with your own gun than you will protect yourself from “bad people”.

        Dave is correct in what he says. There have been dozens of studies done around that question, and perhaps the best was done by Kellerman TWENTY years ago. The NRA is still gnashing their teeth over that one and foaming at the mouth as they try to refute it. Unfortunately, FBI statistics and other studies support Kellerman, and the NRA STILL hasn’t refuted them after all these years.

        JAY would blithely dismiss all the real data by saying they are “fabricated statistics”. Funny thing, that’s what the NRA says but can’t prove—–is it the NRA that JAY shills for on PLD?

        JAY wants to know why he is not part of those statistics, and goes into a string of blah-blah-blah that is designed to distract everyone from the truth. And the bit about “holding a gun before I could walk” is a real beauty, JAY—do you want us to believe that your parents were stupid enough to let you handle a gun BEFORE YOU COULD WALK? (Or didn’t you walk until you were 16?).

        Then he answers his own question about why he’s not part of the statistics by saying “There was no domestic violence in my house”. DUH and DOUBLE DUH, JAY, maybe that’s why you’re not part of the statistics about the connection between guns and domestic violence? No domestic violence, no sense trying to tie the presence or absence of guns to that.. Do you see the logic? That is kind of what VICKI is saying with her endlessly repeated “300 million” in a roundabout (and boring) way.

        JAY has another “logic fail” when he runs his mouth with some more rhetorical inanities and then asks, “Where are all these people that would fit into those statistics?” Easy to answer, JAY—-YOU JUST HAVEN’T MET THEM, just like I haven’t met the Pope. That DOES NOT mean that the Pope and the gun/domestic violence folks are not out there, and it’s dishonest to imply that.

        To paraphrase you a bit, “JAY posts these comments because he wants to spread fear, ignorance and paranoia, or he is a shill for those who do. Nothing more”

        Nice try, JAY—-I will ask yet again, what is WRONG with you lately?

      • Bill

        Dave67
        That is like saying if you own a car, you are more than likely to be run over by your own car

        Give me a break. Quit making stuff up because you are scared of guns yourself.

        You are the type of person who should not own a gun. You sound unstable, are you still on the meds

      • Vicki

        Dave67 says:
        “OK Vicki and Bill and Jay,

        What is your solutions for the extraordinary high levels of gun violence and death in this country. What would you do? (ad hominem deleted)

        Give your solutions to the issue.

        I await your responses.”

        I gave you my response. More than once. Here it is again. I will use all caps for you.

        ~300 MILLION AMERICANS DID NOT SHOOT ANYONE.

        STOP PUNISHING THE INNOCENT.

        STOP IT
        STOP IT NOW

        (Oh and a link to show that when government has reduced the amount of punishment, gun violence (all violence actually) goes DOWN. http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493636 No you don’t have to buy the book. But now you know some search parameters for google)

      • Vicki

        Bill says:
        “Dave67
        That is like saying if you own a car, you are more than likely to be run over by your own car”

        I think a better analogy is that if you own a car you are significantly more likely to be in a car accident.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Dennis throws one of the biggest NON-statistics presently floating around the circular firing squad circuit when he says,

        “Two million or more people a year…..use a firearm to stop/prevent a crime”.

        Says who?

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Once again JAY wastes our time by posting WORD FOR WORD another useless clip that has no purpose put to throw gasoline on the fire. (And with none of his own words added—-did JAY even read it beyond the title?)

      Why do I call it useless? Because guns are so easy to get that no one would waste their time gathering up the materials and building one of these. Also, because any 10-year-old with half a brain can figure out how to do this on his own without JAY’s directions, and I hope the average PLD-er is smarter than a 10-year-old and doesn’t need this either.

      When I was a 10-year-old in NJ, we made what were called “zip guns” at the time—-crude but operable—-all you needed was a piece of broken off radio antenna from a car, some blocks of wood, a nail, and some rubber bands—-and kids worked on them in shop class when the teacher wasn’t looking. They WOULD propel a bullet at high enough velocity to do some damage. Of course we were smart enough to use only .22 cal ammunition. You should have put a warning and disclaimer on here saying DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS WITH .44 MAGNUM AMMUNITION for those PLD-ers that are not smarter than a 10-year-old and might attempt to “supersize” this “craft project”.

      And I’ll ask once again, JAY. What is WRONG with you lately? Why are you posting this kind of stuff and abusing the intelligence and patience of everyone on the site? Are you seeking attention? Say something intelligent instead and I will agree with you and pat you on the back for doing so—-I’ve done it before. Or are you just in a “be a bad boy” mood this week? Or, as I have suggested, have the bosses at the “Trolls-n-Shills-r-Us” told you to do it? What?

  • Dave67

    This is perfect: I wish I could claim credit for it.

    So, here’s my two cents (which will end up being closer to $1.50 I’m sure) and I’m sure I will regret posting this later, due to the “friends” I will lose while exercising my First Amendment, but here goes.
    Instead of posting a meme with a picture and a falsely attributed quote or a made up statistic, I’ve spent my time researching the gun violence/gun control debate. And I’d like to talk about some of the pervasive themes I’ve seen lately.
    First off, Hitler did not say “In order to conquer a country, you must first disarm its citizens.” In fact, Hitler made it his position to enable guns to be obtained more easily. http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/disarm.asp
    Secondly, the presidents, and I mean ALL of them, and their families, receive death threats on a daily basis. President Obama did not enact the regulations that REQUIRE Secret Service protection for him and his family. If you believe your children are as much of a target as the president’s children, then you have a self inflated idea of your position in this world. http://www.secretservice.gov/protection.shtml
    Thirdly, there is NO law or bill being considered that would allow anyone to come marching into your home to take your legally obtained and legally owned firearms. There are possible laws that are being explored that would require more responsibility on the part of the gun owner or person purchasing a gun (i.e. pass a background check even if buying a gun from a gun show dealer). If you buy a car from a dealer it must be registered (a record of the transfer is documented). If you buy a car from a private citizen, it must be registered. If you buy a gun from a dealer, there is a record of that sale and it is registered. So how is it illogical to require the same for private sales of firearms?
    Fourth, there are not more people being killed with baseball bats than guns. If you disagree with that because you saw a picture stating otherwise on the internet, then I would like to offer you the chance to buy some oceanfront property in Arizona and I’ll throw in the Brooklyn Bridge for free. There is no magical solution for solving the problem of gun violence. THAT is what we need to solve. http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/baseballbats.asp
    We don’t ban cars that are used in DUI related deaths, but we do enact regulations regarding blood alcohol limits, prosecute people who enable a drunk driver to operate a vehicle after serving them, promote a DUI campaign raising awareness and educating drivers on the dangers of driving while intoxicated. All of which has reduced DUI related fatalities by over 40% in a decade. http://www.centurycouncil.org/drunk-driving/drunk-driving-statistics
    The media is not hiding other gun related stories because they want to sensationalize the problem, they are simply unable to cover every gun death story because there would be an average of 80 of them each day. So they concentrate (unfortunately) on the massacres which I think we can all agree, happen all too often.
    I find the fact that more children are killed in the US by guns than in the entire Middle East region, very disturbing.
    I find it disturbing that the NRA blames the rise in violent shootings on video games and then comes out with its own shooting video game (categorized for children as young as 4 years of age) less than a month after Newtown.
    I find it disturbing that other countries spend in excess of twice as much as the US on violent video games and have a small fraction of the amount of gun related deaths/injuries.
    I find it disturbing that instead of looking for a solution to a problem like Newtown, there are people wasting their time and energy by trying to turn it into a conspiracy theory.
    I find it disturbing that guns are the third largest killer of children ages 5-14 in the US.
    I find it disturbing that a child in America is 12 times more likely to be killed with a gun than the rest of the “developed” world.
    I find it disturbing that there are more guns privately owned in America than the next SEVENTEEN countries combined.
    I find it disturbing that all of these statistics are not discussed but fake statistics about a baseball bat death rate are plastered everywhere.
    I find it disturbing that some people believe that the ONLY answer to this problem is more guns.
    Banning all firearms is NOT the answer, which is exactly why it’s not being proposed. This country has enacted laws that didn’t work before, so they’ve been revised, repealed, reformed, etc. It’s ludicrous to think that as a society, we evolve, but the laws governing us cannot? The NRA states that the assault weapons ban didn’t work the first time. Well, you know what they say, “If at first you don’t succeed, f*%k it.”.
    If armed guards are the only answer to ending school shootings, then explain the VT shooting. Virginia Tech had an entire police department complete with a SWAT unit. Explain Columbine, which had an armed officer on staff. When discussing an end to gun violence in schools, there should be NOTHING left off of the table.
    Ronald Reagan, a huge gun proponent and signor of the Brady Bill, wrote to Congress in 1994 asking them to propose legislation limiting or stopping altogether the manufacture of guns classified as assault weapon. And anyone saying “assault weapon” is a made up term should remember that every word in every language is, in fact, made up.
    And yes, criminals don’t typically obey laws, but we still have them. Can you use that logic to say there should be none at all? No.
    Let me be clear, I am NOT anti gun. I have nothing against guns or responsible gun owners. I served proudly in the military, I worked in armed security, I’ve hunted, and enjoy target shooting since I was a kid. And I’m sure most gun enthusiasts are the same way. However, this issue should be discussed logically and rationally, and all I see are comments and pictures that are anything but rational and for the most part, are just viral, inflammatory, unresearched, vitriol.
    The president enacted 23 executive actions today, of which only 2 have anything to do with limiting the availability of a category of gun or a magazine capacity. The remaining 21 deal with aspects regarding background checks, school safety and mental health system requirements and deficiencies. Will it be a perfect solution? No. Will it help? We’ll see. Is it better than doing nothing? Definitely. If we keep using the statement, “It’s too soon to talk about it.” after each tragedy, pretty soon, we’ll never talk about it.
    OK, so maybe it ended up closer to $2.00 instead of 2 cents. So sue me.

  • http://aol.com A.J.

    I wish the SOB would spend more time on the economy then the gun control issue! If he put more time in passing legislation on GAS Prices that will help the economy and start a chain reaction and boost the economy! But what he wants to do is destroy us as a democracy and make us socialized nation were the gov’t takes everything and gives nothing…Blind idiots in this country allow it to happen… Bleeding Liberals force it down our throughts… Don’t worry Hitler tried to do this… along with other dictators killing there people…This is what will happen here before you know what hit you. Just think about this if the United States is called upon by the world to help save them from opression and evil dictators…What will happen when the USA is no longer a free society,Democracy! Nothing will happen cause there will be nobody else that cares!!!! So to all you Obama’s and Liberal supporters… Kiss My Polish Ass!!! I seen what my father and Grandparents went through during World War II. My father survived two concentration camps ( Not Jewish either) So don’t think I’m a racist against blacks… I wasn’t raised that way! I’m also a retired military person who supported this country!!! I really don’t care what you are as long as you do the correct thing and not do things that are not for the counrty in which you live in! My father used to say to me and my siblings “you don’t like it,Move it out” Oh yea… Why is it with gun control that as a free country we don’t see arm military and or Police at our Ports, Airports, and Borders! Go everywhere else in the world and you’ll see it everywhere….Machine guns, Armed Military/Police… And they don’t ask you for your ID’s first…. They kick your ass to the ground then ask you questions!!! So to me EVERYONE Carry a GUN…. If someone threatens you with one Blow his /her f’in brains out! Just video tape it and make sure the other idiot is dead as a door nail so you won’t get sued because Bleeding liberals and Obama’s will be out to get you!!!

    • Dave67

      He is focusing on the economy but the GOP has engaged in record filibusters and obstruction…

      Amazing what you can find when you look stuff up

      • Bill

        Dave67,
        It is probably all Bush’s fault

      • Right Brain Thinker

        No, Bill, it is more correct to say it is “mostly” Bush’s fault, because he DID have a lot of help, even from some sell-out Democrats.

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