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A Wake-Up Call For Concealed Carry

July 23, 2012 by  

Gun control zealots seized on the tragic events that unfolded last week in an Aurora, Colo., movie theater where a disturbed gunman brutally opened fire on moviegoers, killing several and wounding dozens, as a reason for the banning of firearms in America.

But from people who do not wish to be left utterly defenseless in situations like what unfolded last week, there’s a different message: The world is full of mentally unhinged, immoral, desperate, criminal and sadistic beings capable of horrific things. And they don’t always use guns.

When there are no guns, they might use chainsaws.



Or they may use a sword.

Or a baseball bat.

Or they may just use their teeth.

Whether guns are made illegal, there will always be people with intent and means by which to harm and kill the unsuspecting. And even making guns illegal — like, say, how it’s been attempted with alcohol, marijuana, narcotics, prostitution, theft, murder, bribery, etc. — isn’t going to stop lawbreakers from acquiring them, just as illegality doesn’t deter murders, drug addicts, prostitutes and thieves.

So what is the answer? Vigilance.

Last Friday’s tragedy should serve as a wake-up call to all of those who have succumbed to the false sense of security that this comforting society provides. There are people out there who want to kill and who will kill if they are given even the slightest opportunity. These people seek out victims who are defenseless and vulnerable.

One armed person in the movie theater where James Holmes went on his psychotic killing spree would have had the opportunity to greatly level the playing field. But it is likely that the gunman knew the chance of any of his victims being armed was slight. After all, even the most staunch concealed carry advocate would likely deem a suburban movie theater as a place where a violent attack is unlikely to occur. And who wants to carry a sidearm to a movie, a place people go to escape the horrors of real life?

With attacks like Holmes’ increasing in frequency, Americans should learn how to properly use their firearms and take them everywhere. Here are some products to make a concealed carry weapon less cumbersome in daily life:

No bulk waist holsters from Versacarry.

Low profile concealed carry chest holsters.

Concealed carry purses.

Front pocket holsters for jackets and looser fitting pants.

Undergarments designed for concealed carry.

Casual and dress pants designed specifically for concealed carry.

There are countless other concealed carry options available that can be found by conducting a simple Internet search. With so many low-profile and convenient ways to carry a self-defense weapon, there is no reason any American who can legally concealed carry should leave the home unarmed.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • DaveH

    Sam says — “The world is full of mentally unhinged, immoral, desperate, criminal and sadistic beings capable of horrific things”.
    Yep, and many of them are leading our country.

    • http://httpaol.com sean murry

      you got that right dave.

      • E. Blake
      • Bucky Roo

        In reality I’m not a gun enthusiast, don’t own one and probably never will but I do realize one thing.. If guns are banned, only criminals will have guns and who are the worst criminals in our society today? You got it, our own g’ment. Do Not Allow The Feds To Take Away Your Right To Bear Arms!!

    • http://northwoodsmomblog.blogspot.com/ Tanya

      So true.

    • Sirian

      Absolutely! Now what will come of the Armed Trade Treaty? Another door opened? Take advantage of a crisis? Sound familiar? Hillary is grinning . . . Wait and watch.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        The scenario in Aurora, CO created by this nutter will not benefit Hillary Clinton and her anti gun crowd.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      They are only “leading” because we have not tired them and hung them….YET.

      • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

        That is TRIED. This place needs an edit capability.

      • E. Blake

        They question here is who is going to hang who first???
        Do you call this reviewing a bill???
        We all need to be prepared for these morons, they think their lives have more value than us lowly slaves…
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaztexKNf_o&feature=share

    • Bill Roberts

      1) Why do they always seem to strike in areas where concealed weapons are prohibited?
      2) Why do cities ( Chicago, Washington DC, etc.) with the most firearm restrictions have the most gun violence?
      3) Do venues that restrict self-defense assume liability?
      4) How much time do have to respond to a violent situation?
      5) Has the government, education system, or the media offered any suggestions on how to respond?
      6) How do the Israel’s prepare for these types of events?
      7) Who is responsible for your family’s safety?
      8) Mexico does not allow personal fire arms. How is that working out for them?
      9) Which governments have killed the most of their people? (estimated @ 50 Million in the last century)
      10) Did they disarm them first?
      11) How would you learn how to defend yourself?
      12) Who do you believe is currently in charge of the earth? (Hint: Prince of the air)

      • skippy

        Bill, your question #3 is right on point! Will the victims sue the theater since they were not permitted to enter with a firearm? (I assume it IS posted out front)

      • Charles Moore

        I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. It would have made no difference in that theater. The guy was covered from head to toe in body armor. The news reported that he bought the body armor on the Internet from a company that supplies them to the Military and the Police. . So why was the body armor sold to him? Another news article stated that when the mother of the shooter was interviewed in California that she said “You have the right person”. So is this another case such as Arizona where there was no only indications of Aberrant behavior but his college wrote letters to the shooter and his parents that he would no be allowed to return unless cleared by a Mental Health official. Yet nobody followed up. Another problem is people with an Agenda using the incidents for Political excuses. At least one main stream Media outlet immediately said the shooter was a member of the Tea Party in Colorado. A simple check would have verified that the last name was the same but they were not the same person

        Some people should not be allowed to obtain a CCW permit. Take George Zimmerman in Florida. A person is not allowed to display their weapon or put themselves in that position unless their life or the life of somebody else is in imminent danger. This situation did not exist when Zimmerman saw Martin while driving his car. If it would have been myself and I observed suspicious activity then I would have called the Police. I would have observed in my vehicle from a distance until such situation would have happened.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. It would have made no difference in that theater. The guy was covered from head to toe in body armor.”

        Your permit should be revoked you have no need of it as you would not use it for its intended purpose.

        Charles Moore: “The news reported that he bought the body armor on the Internet from a company that supplies them to the Military and the Police. . So why was the body armor sold to him?”

        Cause it is not illegal. And body armor does not prevent the intense pain of being shot. So you would have made a difference had you been there and bothered to draw and fire your weapon. He would have been distracted by the pain giving you time to close the distance and others time to escape.

        I notice that you have spent a lot of time in this thread pushing the internet sales element. That tells me that you are being paid to get folk upset about internet sales so that the government can demand more control of the internet. Either that or you are one of the “folk” that the MSM is trying to get riled up to demand more government control of the internet.

        Charles Moore: “Another problem is people with an Agenda using the incidents for Political excuses.”
        Quite true. There were a long list of incidents including Mayor Bloomberg, the attempt by liberal media hosts to implicate the Tea Party and a host of others.

        Charles Moore: “Some people should not be allowed to obtain a CCW permit. Take George Zimmerman in Florida. A person is not allowed to display their weapon or put themselves in that position unless their life or the life of somebody else is in imminent danger.”

        Interestingly Mr. Zimmerman (allegedly) did EXACTLY what you claim he should do yet you claim he is an example of someone who should not be allowed to exercise his fundamental right to carry the best tool for personal defense. Or don’t you think that someone larger and stronger than you beating you over the head with a sidewalk constitutes a clear and present danger to your life.

      • http://yahoo gator

        a thinking person with common sense should know all the answers. i suppose that was the reason for your questionaire. i imagine there are quite a few who take the ‘obamanews anti-gun propaganda’ as gospel.
        those same people who rely on ‘uncle sugar’ to provide their sustenance; then wonder where the food and water is after a hurricane, and why don’t the police stop the raping and robbing.
        the answer to #6, the Israeli’s carry weapons EVERYWHERE, they are ALL welltrainedin self-defense of ALL kinds, and woe be the person that walks in a classroom to cause harm,cause the teacher can shoot!!

      • http://yahoo gator

        its good the troops that faced hitler didn’t say ‘damn they got armor lets run’. not relevant? yes, it is relevant. combat takes many forms, but what it takes to win is attitude. there is always a weakness in your opponent, you find it, you exploit it, you win or you lose, but you DON’T cower in the corner and wait for your turn to die!
        take MR. WILLIAMS, in Florida. HE didn’t cower in the corner, NO, HE drew his .380 semi-auto pistol and sent the would-be robbers/killers running! different circumstances? sure, but that 71 YEAR-OLD MAN, STOOD AND FOUGHT!! a TRUE AMERICAN HERO!
        would he have done the same in a dark theater? yes, he would, and possibly with the same results! he may have also died, but he at least would have bought some time for the others.
        GET SOME GUTS AMERICA! REMEMBER FLIGHT 93!!

      • http://yahoo gator

        zimmerman was an idiot. he at first did what his neigborhood watch states you do, watch and report; however when he was told by the 911 operator to stand down, he didn’t. this led to the confrontation with trayvon williams, which got trayvon killed and will ultimately lead to zimmermans death.
        of course trayvon was not the lawabiding 7 yearold the media would like you to think; he was a tatted-up gangbanger, the likes of which you would not want prowling around your neighborhood. its ‘hoods’ like him that force people to put up burgler bars, and buy shotguns.

        • Charles Moore

          Nonsense. Zimmerman is an Idiot. For about a hundred dollars a year one can purchase Self Defense Insurance. Zimmerman put himself in this absurd neighborhood watch position with a gun and did not purchase it. He was not on watch patrol when he claims he spotted Zimmerman who he now claims was acting suspicious. There is Video of Martin inside the Store purchasing the items and Martin is not acting suspicious. Zimmerman did not call the Police until he exited his vehicle and started following Martin. Zimmerman Lied about his Funds at his first Bond hearing and also his U.S,Passport. Martin has no record except for cutting school and smoking M.J. Zimmerman could not have known even this.

      • David

        Charles Moore – you really need to get your facts straight before mounting your high horse. The shooters Mom went on the news to correct the selective quoting, she was referring to herself when she said “you have the right person”. Seems like another case of selective quoting just like they did with Zimmerman – “he’s suspicious, he’s black”.

        Speaking of which you claim Zimmerman displayed his gun in public. Wrong, his gun showed as a result of Trayvon’s ground and pound. Once he saw the gun, and threatened to kill Zimmerman there was only one option.

        Whether firing back would have ended the massacre or not it’s a better option than the “shooting fish in a barrel” situation that occurred. I’d rather go down fighting than crying for help.

        And yes I have a Florida carry permit.

        • Charles Moore

          Nonsense. Florida Law requires that in order to display a weapon then the life of the CCW holder or somebody else must be in imminent danger. Zimmerman would not have exited that car if he did not have a gun in that area. The imminent danger did not exist when Zimmerman exited his car. We know that Zimmerman and his wife lied about their Funds and used Funds designated for his Defense for personal reasons. His own Lawyers stated he was “Untruthful ” on National T.V. sand that the promised not to do it again. Zimmerman turned in a U.S. Passport that he had declared “Lost” and kept the one that replaced it. Nobody knows what actually happened .Zimmerman has proven that he is “NOT” credible. He is facing 20 years in Prison iin Florida at the minimum if he s convicted of a any crime while firing a gun. I suggest that you need to forward your evidence to the Zimmerman Defense attorneys that Zimmerman s telling the truth. Zimmerman created the scenario when he exited the car and followed Zimmerman and Zimmerman has proven not to be credible regardless of what happened later., If I was coming from a store and somebody started following me then I would be apprehensive and I have a gun and a CCW permit. it was a Stupid move on that part also. There was no way that Zimmerman could have known whether Martin had a gun or not.

      • Vicki

        David says:
        “The shooters Mom went on the news to correct the selective quoting, she was referring to herself when she said “you have the right person”. Seems like another case of selective quoting just like they did with Zimmerman – “he’s suspicious, he’s black”.”

        Very interesting. Was that NBC perchance? Do you have a link to your cite. It would be useful in discussion with liberals about how someone “should have known” that he was crazy. This is the flavor of the reports that make it seem like she did know.

        • Charles Moore

          Nonsense. The usual response of a close family would be ” There is no way my child could have committed such an atrocity”. Why does the family need to hire a Lawyer to run interference for them?Why couldn’t the mother just say that this is what was meant by the response. Last I checked the Family had a Lawyer and the son had a “Public Defender”.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore the mind reader says:
        “July 24, 2012 at 11:56 am

        Nonsense. The usual response of a close family would be ” ”

        Into profiling I see.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Bill Roberts,”

        CITIES LIKE CHICAGO HAVE THE WORST GUN VIOLENCE BECAUSE NEGRO MALES ARE DETERMINED TO OWN GUNS, TOO. NEGRO MALES WITH NO CRIMINAL RECORD ARE MISTREATED IN GUN SHOPS. NEGRO MALES WITH CRIMINAL RECORDS ACQUIRE “ADVANTAGEOUS” ILLEGAL GUNS. COMMITTING CRIMES WITH “CLEAN-” ILLEGAL GUNS HAS RESULTED IN SEVERAL NEGRO MALES FREELY WALKING THE STREETS. YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED AT THE NUMBER OF HOMES WHERE “EX-CONS” LIVE, IN WHICH GUNSHOTS ARE FIRED IN CELEBRATION OF New Year’s Day AND Fourth of July.

        • Charles Moore

          One of my Nephews is going to the University of Chicago Law school on a full Scholarship.He was told not to go within a few blacks of the campus at the risk of his own life. The campus itself has a large presence of police.State Senator Obama when he was a State Senator of Illinois sponsored Legislation only for Retired Police Officers to be able to carry a concealed weapon in order to get the endorsement of the Illinois Police unions in his run for U.S. Senator. In all the States where they have gone from no permits to permits there has been a 30% reduction in shootings on the average. I see on the news yesterday where the applications for gun permits has increased by 43% in Colorado.

      • Chester

        Charles, you are wondering WHY the Aurora shooter’s family got a lawyer, right? First, they ARE a fairly well to do family, or their son would never have gotten a degree in neuro-science. Second, there are nuts like you out there who would like nothing better than to sue them for a few million dollars just because they “should have known” that their son was GOING TO KILL SOMEONE. If you have some money and you probably already have a lawyer you deal with on a halfway regular basis, it is only good sense to make arrangements for a bit more protection from money hungry, lawsuit happy lawyers who could care less about the facts of the case. And yes, there ARE some out there who fit that description, just as there are some who would defend you.

        • Charles Moore

          You need to check your facts. I have seen nothing about the wealth of the Family. It has been announced that the shooter was attending the Colorado University on a Federal Grant so there is no evidence that the Parents are linked to paying for his tuition,One of my nephews graduated from the University of Texas at Austin with Honors. He had a perfect score on the LSAT. He is now attending the University of Chicago Law School on a full scholarship. No cost. He also had an offer from Harvard but not a full Financial Scholarship.it is very difficult to get a Federal Grant in Neuro Science.One has to be pretty sharp but there is no evidence that the Parents are wealthy and supported the shooter.

          What we do know is that the Family has retained a lawyer. This Lawyer is running interference for them and only mentioned that “they love their son”. So if they are wealthy then why does the son still have a Public Defender? It is a simple question. There is a gag order where the shooter attended school and with anybody with which he had a close contact. Why is this? Who requested the gag order?Nobody requested a gag order concerning the shooter in Arizona who had problems. You are going to find out that the shooter in Aurora had unstable behavior somewhere along the line and it was ignored because people did not want to get involved. didn’t want any possible Liability or the family ignored it etc. Nobody wakes up overnight and loses it and decides to have a massacre.

      • Jim Coppock

        re: “Prince of the air”

        Has anyone considered that IF the guy was majoring in Neuroscience that he could (possibly) have been investigating occult influences on the human mind?

        Dabbling in the occult has been shown to “open the door” to demonic influences/possession with devastating results.

        • Charles Moore

          What evidence is there that he was dabbling in the occult?Neuro is “Nerve”. It doesn’t suggest the occult.

    • John Southwell

      here here!

      • John the Libertarian

        Reply to Charles Moore: 1st he was covered with body armor… HOWEVER, he had a gas mask on which meant a head shot WOULD have taken him out… also, I am moved that some of the victims were close enough to feel the hot ejected cartridges fall on their head(s)… why no flight 93 response? if there’s a high probability of your imminent death anyway & you’re that close, why not try wrestling with the monster to at least avert the death of others… maybe if someone had tried, the delay could have caused others to jump forward to minimize the losses as was done in Tucson when Con. Giffords was shot… it’s time for all of us to realize this can happen anywhere, anytime and learn the lesson to be prepared to ACT and TAKE ACTION IMMEDIATELY as the passengers did on flight 93… it’s THE ONLY way to stop these monsters… I’ll bet if he was wrestled, taking the gas mask off or better, breaking his neck with a rapid twist, the fatality count would have been far lower… cowering in fear NEVER STOPS THE MONSTERS

        • Charles Moore

          Read the account. He was covered in head to toe with body armor. His head was covered by a “Ballistic Helmet”. This means that the gas mask was over the ” Ballistic Helmet”. The body armor on the head ie the ballistic helmet has to have openings so you can see and breathe .Tear Gas etc can get into these openings. The gas mask was used to cover these openings while allowing him to be able to see and breathe. Unless you had a weapon with armor penetrating bullets or were extremely lucky then you would have become a target.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Charles Moore, if someone fired back at the shooter, there would have been a hesitant moment of surprise, someone else would have taken that moment to slam into him and set him on his arse.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “Read the account. He was covered in head to toe with body armor. ”

        Body armor is NOT magic. Being hit by gunfire in body armor hurts. A LOT. Being hit in the eye socket of the gas mask WILL surprise the shooter and mess up vision. Being shot in the ballistic helmet WILL ring his bell. The shooter will be distracted. Most body armor does not protect the arms or legs. So many targets, so little ammo. The shooter might even bleed out in spite of the armor. For sure the shooter will be more interested in running away at that point. They are obviously cowards cause they choose to shoot up a movie theater rather than a police station.

      • Rick

        Charles Moore First of all there is nothing that is total covering in body armor. The helmet goes over the gas mask but that mask is not even bullet resistant. It is rubber and plexiglass.aeough power to at least knock the wind out of him.nd a helmet only covers the top sides and back of the head.And depending on the caliber a .357, a .40, or .44, a .45 will have enough power to knock the wind out of someone body armor or not. And if there were several they could have pinned h8im down and gave people the opportunity to escape. anything is better than just letting it happenAnd one well placed shot could have ended it all.

        • Charles Moore

          Again. You are watching too many old fast draw Westerns and CSI. I am a Military Vet and have been a CCW permit holder for 10 years. Qualifying for a CCW permit is a joke in most cases and takes a few hours. People then go buy a gun that is attractive or because they think it is “Cool”. One needs to own a gun that it compatible with them. One can go to a gun shop with an indoor range and rent a gun. Here it is $10. All one has to do is buy the ammunition. If they want to try 10 guns then it is $100 plus the cost of the ammunition. A head shot is the most difficult one to make. It is even more difficult when somebody is shooting up the Place and is lobbing grenades. The Body Armor makes it even more difficult. When I bought my gun I wanted one with stopping power and a light weight. I ended up with a 9MM Taurus made out of Titanium that was comfortable to shoot and adapted to me. This is not usually the case. A person gets a CCW permit in a few hours and then buys a gun.

      • Kinetic1

        Let’s get a grip here folks. We’re talking about a dark theater, an action movie with plenty of shooting and bombing, smoke bombs and a theater full of frieghtend people looking for cover. If anyone in the theater was carrying, how much good could they have done. Yes, a hit might have distracted Holmes for a second, but what are the chances of a hit in this situation? What are the odds that more innocents would have been shot by a second shooter, even if they were only trying to hit Holmes. It’s easy to talk a good tale about how brave you would be, but you can never truly say until you are in the situation.

        As for those of you calling for a group of “flight 93 heroes”, these folks didn’t have time to plan an attack. You can’t rush a guy in the front of a packed theater spraying bullets with a semi automatic weapon and expect to get very far. Plenty of people protected those around them. Plenty of people pulled children to the ground and covered them with their own bodies. Several people began treating the wounded even before the gunfire stopped. There were plenty of heroic people, some of whom died as a result of their concern for others, but all you can do is criticize those who were in the thick of it and didn’t jump the killer. I have a couple of guns and I’m not suggesting that we need to ban all guns, but I’m sick to death from hearing from those of you who think a cwp is your personal “future hero” certificate.

      • Vicki

        Good news for Charles Moore.

        The body armor wasn’t so you can stop worrying and just shoot.
        http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/07/22/fox-no-body-armor-for-aurora-theater-shooter/

        • Charles Moore

          You are delusional and clueless. You have never answered my posts about your absurd theories and any information published after the fact would not have been known at the time. Are you really that dense?

      • Vicki

        Kinetic1 says:
        “Let’s get a grip here folks. ….. Yes, a hit might have distracted Holmes for a second, but what are the chances of a hit in this situation? ”

        About 1/2 as good as a hit during target practice according to experts on firearms training. (see frontsight for details)

        Since the shooter did not have a real bullet proof vest a hit would do far more than distract for a second. http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/07/22/fox-no-body-armor-for-aurora-theater-shooter/

        Had there been anyone else with a gun I would hope that they would not sit around wondering if the armor were real or just a costume.

      • Kinetic1

        Vicki,
        Got it, the vest was a phony. That just leaves us with a dark, crowded theater full of smoke from several smoke bombs, hundreds of panicked people and a lunatic spraying bullets. So if your accuracy is reduced by 1/2 of what you were able to pull off on the range, your chances of hitting an innocent still are pretty good. And supposing that 1/2 accuracy number is based on range vs real, we must then assume that you took courses in night time and low light shooting, but if you didn’t? Does that reduce your accuracy by another 10%? 25%?

        Look, I accept the idea that an armed and well trained gun owner may have been able to reduce the carnage, but he/she may have added to it as well. All I’m saying is that this is real life. This is not a movie where the hero jumps up on his seat, dodges a dozen bullets and makes the kill shot on his first try. This situation would have been greatly improved if they had just placed an alarm on the back door and investigated when it was propped open. I’m pretty sure that seeing a man suiting up and arming himself would have prompted a locked door and a call to the police well before the first shot could be fired.

        • Charles Moore

          Again and Again. What was the chance that a well trained gun owner would be in the theater at the time? About Nil , So why even waste time on it?

          • E. Blake

            Charles Moore, you would be amazed at how many well trained gun owners there are in this country, Hunters hit moving targets, police, security, and then you have your we like to unload a bunch of mags, just for fun. I guarantee you you pass by a marksman shooter quite often.

          • Charles Moore

            Again. The fact that a person has a CCW permit does not make them qualified. In order for a person to be carrying a gun in that theater legally meant that they had to be able to get a CCW permit in that City. Shooting at a paper target in a controlled environment or at at animal that can’t shoot back is a lot different then shooting at a shooter in a darkened theater that is not only spraying the theater with bullets but is lobbing grenades

          • E. Blake

            And it is mentality like this that people are dead…

      • Vicki

        Kinetic1 says:
        “Got it, the vest was a phony. That just leaves us with a dark, crowded theater full of smoke from several smoke bombs, hundreds of panicked people and a lunatic spraying bullets. So if your accuracy is reduced by 1/2 of what you were able to pull off on the range, your chances of hitting an innocent still are pretty good.”

        Actually no. your chances of missing the shooter might be pretty good but the innocent are not in any real danger from you. They are lying on the floor or running away from the shooter leaving him with little cover and only fake body armor. As to your description of the theater, you offered no proof so you have no real idea of what it was like in there. At least my description fits both the facts that witnesses have testified and common sense.

        • Charles Moore

          Nonsense . Your claims have always been Naive and they were based on reports that the vest was real. Now you want to change it??????

      • Kinetic1

        Vicki,
        I don’t know where you are getting your information, but mine comes from videos interviews with people who were in the theater. One man said that the gunman came in through the exit door (down near the screen). Paraphrasing, he said “It was about 10 minutes into the movie and I thought the shots were just part of the movie, we all did. But after the first 4 shots started to see people fall. My girlfriend and I waited, then we thought he was done, but he started shooting again. When we saw him coming up the steps we ran for the back exit.”

        I’ve seen the movie and much of the early scenes are dark and noisy. This was a big preview and tickets were sold out, so you know there were well over a hundred people in the theater. Police have said that a 100-round drum magazine was recovered at the scene and that such a device would be able to fire 50 to 60 rounds a minute, so a spray of gunfire is a fairly accurate description. One person in the theater tweeted;
        “a little shaken up at the moment. all i can remember is hearing noises and seeing smoke in our auditorium.” A viewer in the adjacent theater said it was near the end of the first big action scene when people around him began to cough from the smoke coming from the next theater and he could hear screaming. He said “from the sound of it there could have been 4 people shooting. There were definitely multi calibers going off.”
        As for the smoke, he said “I don’t have asthma, but I’m still having trouble breathing.”
        This was a guy in theater 8. Imagine how the smoke must have been for those in theater 9.

        So, the shooter is down at the front, bullets are flying, people are screaming, coughing from the smoke and looking for cover or escape. You are seated in, lets say the middle section. If you wee in the middle of the row some people in front of you would be hitting the floor, but since it’s a packed house some would have to try for the isles. Unless you are right up there in the front rows near the isle where the gunman is, many of the people who are “running away from the shooter” are running towards you! Is that really “leaving him with little cover”? Now you’re shooting and the crowd hears shots coming from the back of the theater as well. Do they know that you are defending them and not his partner? Now people turn to run away from you as well. Don’t you think there might be that much more chaos, that much more opportunity for the innocent to be caught in the cross fire?

        This is a theater, not an open field. There is only so much room to run or hide. This idea you have of a group of panicked individuals in a cramped theater clearing the way for you to get a shot without interference is more out of touch with reality than anything I have described or eye witness reports.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “You are delusional and clueless. You have never answered my posts about your absurd theories and any information published after the fact would not have been known at the time. Are you really that dense?”

        Without knowing who “you” is it would be difficult for the person to know if they have or have not answered your posts about your (Charles Moore) absurd theories.

        Since all of this post of yours is full of ad-hominem attack I am not sure that anyone would bother.

      • Vicki

        Kinetic1 writes:
        “Now you’re shooting and the crowd hears shots coming from the back of the theater as well. Do they know that you are defending them and not his partner? Now people turn to run away from you as well. Don’t you think there might be that much more chaos, that much more opportunity for the innocent to be caught in the cross fire?”

        Don’t you just love the liberals men of straw. All to justify why CCW should not be allowed. All to justify taking firearms away from the People so they can not defend themselves from monsters like the Aurora Shooter.

        Kinetic1 writes: “This is a theater, not an open field. There is only so much room to run or hide. This idea you have of a group of panicked individuals in a cramped theater clearing the way for you to get a shot without interference is more out of touch with reality than anything I have described or eye witness reports.”

        Do you really think that the panicked individuals are in Pedesis? They are running for the exits. As any good CCW holder knows you wait till you have a clear shot and backstop. If you have tactical training you know to move often while waiting. The shooter will be distracted from you by all the other moving people. Move toward a clearing area keeping in as much cover or concealment as possible. Then you shoot to neutralize the threat.

        This law abiding citizen knew how to do it. He didn’t have any cover but he did wait till the shooter turned away.
        http://www.theblaze.com/stories/surveillance-vid-shows-71-year-old-concealed-carry-holder-opening-fire-on-would-be-robbers/

      • Kinetic1

        Vicki,
        “Do you really think that the panicked individuals are in Pedesis?”

        First let’s get this straight, I am not arguing against CCW permits. If you have a legitimate reason and the proper training (which I believe is not truly required at this time) then it’s fine with me. I’m not even saying that an armed citizen can’t stop or reduce the loss of life in a shooting. My argument has to do with this idea that every situation where a crowd is attacked by gunmen could be solved by someone in the crowd carrying their own weapon.

        Now, to answer your question, no I think they were in a packed theater. This theater had a seating capacity of about 300, so it could have been a single isle theater, in which case good luck. Let’s just assume it was a traditional 2 isle theater. You make it sound like they were all waiting in the isle to run for the door. You must know how tight it is in those seating rows. It’s hard enough to walk down these rows, let alone running in panic. And what if there are people who dropped to the floor? You can’t go around them.

        Based on timelines like this (http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/world_news&id=8743134) there was a 7 minute window between when the shooting began and the police took the shooter into custody back in the parking lot. Let’s give the shooter 2 minutes to return to his car, leaving about 5 minutes inside. Give the viewers some time to realize that what’s going on is not part of the film and we’re down to maybe 4 to 4 1/2 minutes. The shooter discharged 2 smoke bombs and then walked up and down the isle shooting at random. If he is moving about, causing those people who hid in the seating to try and scramble to the isle, how long would it be before you could find a good vantage point with zero chance of hitting an innocent? It’s just not as simple as some of you folks make it out to be.

      • Vicki

        Kinetic1 writes
        “My argument has to do with this idea that every situation where a crowd is attacked by gunmen could be solved by someone in the crowd carrying their own weapon.”

        So for our entertainment please recount 3 situations where a crowd is attacked by gunmen that could have been solved without someone in the crowd carrying their own weapon. Be prepared to explain why this solution was desirable (for people other than the gunmen) and for bonus points why it was more efficient. Extra credit if it is a real event rather than a man of straw.

        Additional credit given if you provide statistics showing how many of each type of solution including someone in the crowd carrying their own weapon.

      • http://www.ifonlyphotos.com Alex Frazier

        Charles Moore et al.

        First of all, body armor mostly protects your vitals. I own some, and so does a friend of mine. It will prevent a direct shot to the heart, but it won’t stop a shot to the shoulder, throat, face, hip, etc. Depending on the armor, a shot from the side will be effective. In many ways, it’s not too dissimilar to football padding. It’s just smaller and made of metal. It’s purpose is to decrease the likelihood of a fatal wound. The guy was not wearing plate mail armor. A moment of care would have put the perpetrator on the ground. It wasn’t needful to kill him in order to stop the threat. A shot to the hand or arm would have accomplished the task.

        Secondly, if there had been concealed carry citizens armed in that theatre, some of them would have known how to shoot competently. Part of responsible gun ownership is practicing at the range. I shoot a 1-inch spread at 20 yards, and I’m not a prodigy.

        Third, the presence of defensive firearms in that theatre would have changed the outcome drastically. I personally would have given the man a reason to run for cover.

        Guns are a good thing. Guns are the great equalizer. With a gun, even a grandmother can stand up to a 250 lb. thug. This unfortunate incident had nothing to do with guns. The man told the police that he was “going to kill someone” that day. He already had alternate plans set up. His apartment was rigged with traps and explosives. He left his door unlocked, and he set a timer so his stereo would come on by itself. The plan was for someone, whether police or neighbor, to assume he couldn’t hear them knocking, open the door, and get blown to pieces. The guns he used in the theatre were just one tool of many that the man used that day. The problem was the maniac, not the tools used by the maniac.

        And based on the increase in permit applications, I’d have to say that plenty of people would agree that the best defense is to arm themselves, not to waste time with the useless endeavor of trying to disarm the lawless.

        • Charles Moore

          Are you related to CZ? I do not live in Colorado. So i did a search on “Colorado CCW permits”. The first website it brought up was one that advertised ” four hours of intensive training”. No firearms qualification was required for it. It then stated that if you were a beginner that there was another ten hour course for shooting at a range. I have a CCW permit in my State. It was good for 5 years. When the 5 years was about to expire I received a notice for renewal. I called to make sure but there was no requirement to qualify with a firearm or even take a written test. All I had to do was fill out some short paper work and submit a passport size photo with the date written on the back. So the fact that a person in the theater may have had a CCW license does not mean that they were qualified with a gun or practiced regularly at a range. I do so on a regular basis. All of the Gun dealers in my City also enable you to rent most small firearms for $10 plus the cost of ammunition for it. So if you want to try out ten guns then it cost you $100 plus the ammunition for them. I went with my son recently ans he tried out some Glocks to see which one he liked the most plus a few others. The Armor is then the next step. I took a completely different course as I worked for the State. it was 10 times as long as the one required for a CCW license in this State. . Since it was ten times as long then all I had to do was pay the license fee. I did so even though I wasn’t seeking one at the time. So it is possible that if I went through the regular short CCW course that I could have a CCW permit and not have been to a range etc for at least ten years. The odds are that most people in that dark theater where the shooter was spraying it with bullets and lobbing grenades would have been a qualified shooter just because they had a CCW permit are slim and none. A poster here that claims they live in Colorado posted that the gun laws there are crap.

    • Sarah R.

      Why don’t they try banning violent video games or violent movies. I really don’t remember when murder and mayhem, blood and guts and chopping off heads became entertainment. These are the things that should be banned not guns. Guns don’t kill people people kill people.

      • Kinetic1

        Sarah R.
        Since recent studies have shown violent game play leading to a decrease in violent crimes, I don’t see much point in a ban. I don’t like these games and we don’t have them in our home, but they seem to serve as a vent for some people’s aggressions.

        • E. Blake

          Might I suggest you get some, and use them as learning tools, for protection from lunatics and flash mobs, and fbi funded shooters…

      • CZ52

        Sources Kinetic1 I have not heard of those studies.

      • Kinetic1

        CZ52,
        Sorry about that. Here is an article from back in 2008 (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080514213432.htm)
        and here is another from 2011(http://gantdaily.com/2011/09/30/study-violent-video-games-reduce-real-violence/).
        Happy research!

    • ONTIME

      Point taken and noted…..

    • john

      In a gun-controlled theater, no one had a chance. Seem to me that this is a prelude of what is to happen if the US sinks the 2nd amendment like obama wants it.

      • Vicki

        Not a very well gun controlled theater. The shooter had a rifle, shotgun and pistol in there.
        Oh wait. It was probably gun control liberal style.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8

      • Kinetic1

        john,
        Without resorting to the lies and distortions offered up by the NRA and FOX News, please grace us with some examples of the Obama administrations efforts to deny you your 2nd amendment rights.

        • Charles Moore

          You can’t be serious. Obama s from Chicago Illinois . State Senator Obama in order to get the endorsement of the Police Unions for U.S. Senator sponsored Legislation that granted Retired Police officers and only Retired Police officers the right to carry a concealed weapon. He was also in favor of the Wash D.C. law that forced homeowners to keep an unloaded weapon locked in a safe and the ammunition for it in a separate place. He was against it only after SCOTUS reversed it because of the NRA. Do you really think that Hilliary is doing the U.N small arms treaty on her own. Fast and Furious has been going on for 11 months and both Holder and Obama have claimed that Obama had nothing to do with it at when it is announces that Holder would be accused of Contempt then Holder writes a letter to Obama for help and Obama declares Executive privilege ,

      • John Woodbury

        @ Kinetic1, try Fast and Furious or the New World Order’s UN arms treaty. But then you only read lamebrain media outlets, right?

      • Kinetic1

        John,
        There is a theory that FAF is about gun control, but no evidence that it has anything to do with your rights. As for the Small Arms Treaty, it’s amazing how the pro gun lobby keeps talking about Clinton signing a treaty that hasn’t even been drafted yet. And again, the “fact” that it is all about ending your 2nd amendment rights is just theory; nothing factual to base it on. In fact, the treaty would have to be ratified by the Senate before it was truly accepted, and even then it would not supersede the Constitution. But hey, thanks for playing!

      • Vicki

        Kinetic1 says:
        “John,
        There is a theory that FAF is about gun control, but no evidence that it has anything to do with your rights.”

        Warning. Evidence ahead. Liberals are advised to run away.
        http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations

      • Kinetic1

        Vicki,
        How does a law “That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or “long guns.” restrict your right to own a gun? How would this “sink the 2nd amendment”?

      • Vicki

        Kinetic1 says:
        “How does a law “That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or “long guns.” restrict your right to own a gun? How would this “sink the 2nd amendment”?”

        Were it only to be thus but I have already posted to flashy how many are demanding additional gun prohibition laws.

        Let us look for a moment however at just your question.
        Reporting of multiple sales for SOME U.S. Gun shops. The law already requires ALL U.S. gun shops to report ALL sales. http://www.ehow.com/about_5492109_national-instant-check-system.html

        Gun shops (Actually FFL’s so this includes even gun show vendors) must also keep 4473 forms on every purchase. These forms are required to be sent to the Federal Government if the shop closes. Thus you see that not only do we have a required report of EVERY sale not just every sale of multiple firearms we also already have de-facto registration.

        Now lets see what happens with gun registration data.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2608785/posts

        http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/8/31/200747.shtml

        http://www.themindoftefft.com/blog/2009/06/11/first-they-register-your-guns-then-they-confiscate-them/

        http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/757440–fiorito-the-cops-came-and-took-my-gun?bn=1

        http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/13/39we-want-them-registered39/

        http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/registration_article/registration.html

        There are more examples if you wish.

      • Chester

        Vicki, he didn’t carry his weapons in through the front door, so no one had a chance to stop him there. I do agree with one of the other posts on here that there should have been an alarm on that emergency exit door, so it would have sounded as soon as the door was opened, then could only have been reset by someone physically going back to that door and flipping a switch or something similar. Seriously, those doors should be alarmed, and the police called to investigate any time one of them is opened without prior notice from the theater. Granted, there are times when the cleaning crew will want to use those doors because they are closer to where they unload the trash, but that would NOT be happening during the time a movie was running.

        • Charles Moore

          Vicki is clueless. You can’t tell her anything. I listed the places a CCW could not carry in my State and she said it was B.S. She makes absurd statements and when challenged changes the subject instead if responding to the question. She has been told several times that that shooter did nor carry the guns through the front door and came in and then went out the emergency door. His car was parked near it and he suited up and came back in the emergency door that he had somehow propped open.

          I doubt that alarm on the door would have made a difference. People might care now for a while but would have probably ignored it and thought that somebody was lazy and just using it etc. You can’t lock these doors. The Police can’t respond to a theater every time an emergency door is opened. Decades ago they used to have Ushers in a theater that helped you find a seat and monitored them. But then decades ago you didn’t have all these problems.

      • phideaux

        Chester, a better question would be why was the alarm on that door off and who turned it off. I doubt very seriously there was no alarm on the door because if there was not the theater would have 5+ non-paying customers for every paying customer.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “I listed the places a CCW could not carry in my State and she said it was B.S.”

        This statement is false. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

        Charles Moore: “She makes absurd statements and when challenged changes the subject instead if responding to the question.”

        Projecting again are you.
        Present a question and we can see if it is even a valid one.

        Charles Moore: “She has been told several times that that shooter did nor carry the guns through the front door and came in and then went out the emergency door. His car was parked near it and he suited up and came back in the emergency door that he had somehow propped open.”

        Told? By whom? And where (be precise) have I EVER said otherwise.

        Note to other readers I did gather all the info Charles listed from reading the sparse accounts after the shooting so his claim is intended to make you believe (without any proof) that I somehow said that the facts were other than what he stated I had been told several times. It is an interesting tactic to try and smear the credibility of a debate opponent. Politicians use it all the time.

    • E. Blake

      Well all I have to say to that is “GOOD LUCK!”
      DICK ACT of 1902… CAN’T BE REPEALED (GUN CONTROL FORBIDDEN) – Protection Against Tyrannical Govern

      http://www.knowthelies.com

      The Dick Act of 1902 also known as the Efficiency of Militia Bill H.R. 11654, of June 28, 1902 invalidates all so-called gun-control laws. It also divides the militia into three distinct and separate entities.

    • Aveteran2

      Dave H, how right you are. As you probably know the Wash DC cadre have approval to conceal carry and may elect to have arm guards escort them in public. They say, “do as I say not as I do!”

    • Speak2Truth

      The mentally unhinged “leaders” of our country still claim “gun free zones” are good for us – despite the Columbine massacre (after Clinton’s “Gun Free School Zones” law), this theater massacre and so many others.

      Americans are waking up and carrying to defend themselves and others, like that 71 year old man who opened fire on the two armed thugs in the internet cafe a few days back. However, if you do carry, it is very important to get PROPER TRAINING to ensure you will win the gunfight and not be a hazard to innocent bystanders.

      GunTrainers.net provides a free zip code search for instructors near you.

      If you are going to carry, do so responsibly.

    • mark

      Many more are daily contributors to this site. Some even write the articles if you want to call these propaganda screeds, articles.

      • phideaux

        mark the worst written of these articles is better than anything you have posted here.

    • darkwitch52

      Thank you for the Truth. We have a corrupted government out to take away every Americans freedoms. From all my research this was a false flag operation so Obama,Hillary Hilter Clinton,and the NWO can use the UN to take our guns away from us. America needs to wake-up and understand our Freedoms,Liberty,The Constitution and Bill of Rights are under attack this very moment in time….

      • E. Blake

        And not to be off subject, but I am concerned about what they are up to while we are busy here. “Never let a good crisis go to waste” God only knows what they are doing…

    • http://www.facebook.com/jerry.sutton.3304 Jerry Sutton

      This is also in response of E.BLAKEs remark from the English….don’t give up our
      guns and he is so right. Remember all those dumbasses a few years ago when they
      turned in any gun for money. Some were very old and worth thousands and the
      idiots only got a few huindred or what-ever it was. You know how it is….stupid is as
      stupid does. Well, they can have my guns…are part of it…from the muzzle-end of
      my AR-15. Its time America stood up again…the right America…not the leftist or
      socialist America…..they don’t get it…America is NOT a socialist country….like the
      democrats want it to be.

    • Jim Starrett

      The announcement on this site indicates that ” the government is planning on “BANNING”
      weapons ( guns ). The truth is that the aim is to exert “CONTROL” over certain kinds of weapons like AR 15′s and other military arms that fire a continuous and highly lethal
      quantity of rounds. I can’t imagine the police in this country not agreeing with the effort
      to control. The facts indicate that the police are unanimously in agreement with this aim.
      JIM

    • Hughze

      Well said DaveH, well said.

      • Charles Moore

        And who put them in office?

    • Jack Stutzman

      Something that’s crazy is that we have senators like D. Feinstein who had a concealed carry permit, carried a gun and thought it was ok for her but not for us. She claims she doesn’t carry anymore. She also claims she has had training in handling a firearm, but photos of her with her finger on the trigger of a gun indicate otherwise. I’d like to know it she has a registered gun at home. She is a good example of an elitist. Maybe she has lost the ability to make rational decisions based on facts. We have many more people that waste our tax money on bills to take away our guns and they have statistics that gun control doesn’t work. Are they possessed by something that has taken away their common sense? Can’t they look at past history? They have an agenda that is not to stop crime, it’s to take our freedom and destroy our way of life. I believe that they don’t care how many lives are lost to get their way. It’s time that we the people, wake up and remove these traitors from office. We need to vote for the ones that believe in the American way and do what we want, not what the U.N. or any other country wants. We don’t need King Obama or who ever he is. Let’s put a stop to this before it’s to late. Let them know we aren’t going to take it anymore. Vote them out of office! They could go live in Mexico where guns are illegal, see how that works out for them!

      • Charles Moore

        I am not aware of the Gun Laws in California but they used ti be pretty much gun control oriented.It would not make any difference since she is a U.S. Senator.I do know that when Obama was an Illinois State Senator and was running for U.S.Senator and wanted the endorsement of the Illinois Police Unions that he sponsored Legislation that allowed Retired and only Retired Police to carry a concealed weapon.

        It is called “Ethical Dualism”. The Elite are entitled to things that are not available to the masses.

  • Vicki

    With more than 60 million gun owners in the US if the world is full of really bad people as Sam says, I observe that there are only a very few in the US or there would be a lot more stories about it. And a LOT more dead people.

    There is, of course, the issue of abortion. But that isn’t caused by guns or gun owners either.

    • Chester

      Vicki, will NOT say abortions are NOT caused by gun OWNERS. Have known far too many country lads who knocked girl up, then paid out the wazoo to help her eliminate the problem. And YES, those country boys most definitely ARE gun owners. The biggest CAUSE of abortion is all the laws regarding how to make contraception hard to get and harder to use. Also, for your benefit, how many drug stores in YOUR area carry the morning after pill, another abortion preventer? Or are they all owned by conscientious objectors? Seems like too many people want the birth control pill banned because it “prevents the fertilized egg from implanting”, which they call abortion, and that is the whole deal with the morning after pills, too. If you are going to jump on the anti-abortion bandwagon, like so many of the right, we can continue this discussion at a later date.

      • Vicki

        Chester says:
        “Vicki, will NOT say abortions are NOT caused by gun OWNERS.”

        Chester has an interesting but irrelevant point. Some abortionists may well be gun owners.
        The people who pay them may be gun owners too but the abortionist is the one who causes the abortion.

        I should have said “…But that isn’t caused by most guns or most gun owners either…”

        I have never heard of an abortion using a gun as the tool. Usually such abortions are properly labeled as MURDER of the unborn person. Ironic actually.

  • Michael J.

    According to some, there is something very different going on here.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwuJh7wMWkY

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      Very good possibility!

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      I’ve read several other related things. You have to admit that it’s very convenient that this would happen NOW, just as the small arms treaty is getting so much attention. I don’t believe in coincidences. Another thing to look at: I read that the guns, body armor, ammo etc…that he had would cost around $20,000. Where did he get that kind of money? And he was a graduate student in neuro sciences? He was going to school on a federal grant or scholorship. I think we need to take a very hard look at this. Was mk ultra involved? I think that our current government is very interested in taking arms away from it’s citizenry. I think that the vast majority of sheeple will now think that it’s a great idea. I think that they are planning to disarm the people very soon. Look out!

      • nc

        Nancy, I am writing a journal on things that may be happening “real soon” from things I have heard predicted here> You justed added being disarmed by the federal government! Could you be a little more specific than “real soon”!!!!!!! Would that be BEFORE or AFTER Obama calls off the November elections? Before or after he declares himself a dictator? Would that before or after he sends the first political prisoners to the FEMA camps? Would that be before or after the culminaton of the 1913 conspiracy? Would that be before or after the second coming? I hate being
        “out of order” !!! I haven’t been at this site for all that long so if you have some other conspiracies that I may have missed please pass them to me.If you don’t mind, please put them in order from the next that will happen to the one after that> If any are more remote that that 1913 thiny don’t bother since I will be 77 in two weeks and probbly won’t be here to suffer the consequences what ever they are?1913 and we’re still waiting????

        • Charles Moore

          I doubt that it has anything to do with the U.N. small arms treaty. The mother upon being interviewed by the Police stated that ” you have the right person”Now the Family has a Lawyer who says that the mother was only referring to him being her son. Nonsense. The first reaction would normally be ” There is no way my son is guilty of such an atrocity”.

    • Average Joe

      These were my observations from Saturday,

      Average Joe says:

      July 21, 2012 at 2:37 pm

      First,

      My condolences to the victims and thier families, may God be with them in this, thier hour of need.

      Now, down to business:

      Hmmm….two .40 cal. handguns, a shotgun , an AR-15, bullet proof vest and helmet…all standard police / military issue…hmmmmm.

      According to the articles that I’ve read (so far)…he bought 6000 rounds of ammo from…local shops… and…. the internet…hmmm… ( any ammo or firearms purchases made by internet order…must be delivered to a licensed local shop and picked up from the local shop the same as any other ammo or firearm puchases…it’s the law) sounds like liberal media hype to me to me. Next consider the apartment booby traps, the fact the he gave up without a fight and told authorities about those booby traps in his apartment…how strange is this behavior?

      Considering everything that has been wriiten and portrayed by the media about the shooter ( an awful lot of info within a very short time about the perp)…I can see only one answer… the CIA… MK-Ultra program ( a sleeper agent). After all, they are getting ready to vote on the U.N. Small Arms Treaty…and they need something polarizing to justify thier votes…and this is a perfectly timed catastrophy…I smell government rats on the loose…. AKA the Devil is in the details…AKA a false flag attack….anyone who thinks otherwise, should probably look into: Operation Northwoods, the sinking of the Maine, the attack on the USS Liberty, the second Gulf of Tonkin attack (which never happened) just to name a few…to truly know what our government is capable of doing to it’s own citizens in order to achieve an agenda…and this agenda is total disarmament of the people of the world (except government, of course) and the subverting of the second amendment…which was written to prevent the tyranny of government.

      A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

      In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
      ——————————

      In 1911,

      Turkey established gun control. >From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
      ——————————

      Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
      ——————————

      China established gun control in 1935. >From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
      ——————————

      Guatemala established gun control in 1964. >From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
      —- ————- ————-

      Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
      ——————————

      Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
      —————————–

      Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

      ——————————

      You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

      Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

      Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late!

      The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

      With guns, we are ‘citizens’. Without them, we are ‘subjects’.

      During WW II the Japanese decided not to invade

      America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

      If you value your freedom, please spread this anti gun-control message to all of your friends.

      The purpose of fighting is to win.
      There is no possible victory in defense.
      The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either.
      The final weapon is the brain.

      All else is supplemental.

      SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
      SWITZERLAND ‘S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THAT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE TO.

      As passed by the Congress:

      A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

      The statement: “A well-regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state,”
      is often misunderstood to mean that you need to be in a militia in order to own firearms. Well, point in-fact, every male of draft age who is of sound body and mind is considered a member of the “unorganized militia” according to the law, but that’s irrelevant, because the second statement:
      “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
      is the important part. This statement is the crux of the amendment and ensures that the individual right to bear arms is not infringed upon. Now, the way this sentence is constructed (in total), the right of the people allows for the well-regulated militia. The militia is a byproduct of the right to bear arms, not a prerequisite. Here is the grammatical break down from the prof:

      [ Copperud:] The words “A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,” contrary to the interpretation cited in your letter of July 26, 1991, constitute a present participle, rather than a clause. It is used as an adjective, modifying ” militia,” which is followed by the main clause of the sentence (subject “the right,” verb “shall”). The right to keep and bear arms is asserted as essential for maintaining a militia.
      In reply to your numbered questions:

      [Schulman: (1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep and bear arms solely to "a well-regulated militia"?;]

      [ Copperud:] (1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by others than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect to a right of the people.

      [Schulman: (2) Is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" granted by the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a preexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state that such right "shall not be infringed"?;]

      [ Copperud:] (2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence is assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be preserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia.

      [Schulman: (3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms conditioned upon whether or not a well-regulated militia is, in fact, necessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not existing, is the statement "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" null and void?;]

      [ Copperud:] (3) No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence of a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the right to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated militia as requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence.

      [Schulman: (4) Does the clause "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," grant a right to the government to place conditions on the "right of the people to keep and bear arms," or is such right deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?;]

      [ Copperud:] (4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as previously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the militia.

      [Schulman: (5) Which of the following does the phrase " well-regulated militia" mean: "well-equipped," "well-organized," "well-drilled," "well-educated," or "subject to regulations of a superior authority"?]

      [ Copperud:] (5) The phrase means “subject to regulations of a superior authority”; this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian control over the military.

      [Schulman: If at all possible, I would ask you to take into account the changed meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written two-hundred years ago, but not to take into account historical interpretations of the intents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated.]

      [ Copperud:] To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the meaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the amendment. If it were written today, it might be put: “Since a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.”
      [Schulman:] As a “scientific control” on this analysis, I would also appreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second Amendment to the following sentence,
      “A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed.”

      My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,

      (1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence, and the way the words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment’s sentence?; and

      (2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict “the right of the people to keep and read Books” only to “a well-educated electorate” – for example, registered voters with a high-school diploma?]

      [ Copperud:] (1) Your “scientific control” sentence precisely parallels the amendment in grammatical structure.
      (2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the possibility of a restricted interpretation.

      Got it? Good.

      The police will always be there in minutes…when seconds count.

      An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may
      have to back up his acts with his life.
      Robert A.
      Heinlein

      Before the liberal, anti- gun dweebs start whining and calling me names…quite frankly, I don’t care about your opinions…I’ve considered the source….and realize that you folks are quite simply…. delusional.

      As well as:

      Average Joe says:

      July 22, 2012 at 12:59 pm

      Kate8 ,
      The whole unemployed thing kinda bugged me as well ( I didn’t comment on that,at the time I posted,I felt that I was long winded as it was)….how does an unemployed person buy all of this weaponry, ammo and tactical gear? It just doesn’t make any sense to me.
      Also, I read all of your links yesterday and found it odd that they issued an alert about possible Theater shootings in May…the same time that this person supposedly started buying all of these goodies….quite odd in my opinion.

      .40 cal. glock pistol @ $400-500 each times two $800 – $1000
      Remington Model 870 shotgun @ $630 – $1000
      Colt Model AR-15 @ $1500- $2000
      3000 rounds of .40 cal. ammo @ $15 per 50 round box= 60 boxes @ $15 ea.=$900
      300 rounds .12 ga. shotgun shells ( per 25 round box)@ $7.15= 12 boxes @$7.15 ea=$85.80

      3000 rounds .223 cal. ammo @ $133 per 300 round box= 10 boxes @ $1,330

      So far, bare minimum, we have:
      $800
      $630
      $1500
      $900
      $85.80
      $1,330……

      Total $5245.80

      This does not include tactical gear (ie. BP vest, helmet, ammo pouches extended magazines, bomb making ingredients and so forth)….grand total after adding these things is somewhere between $8000 – $10,000
      I do not recall hearing that he was on unemployment (only that he was having problems finding a job after graduation), but if he was, how did he pay for all of this, while paying his rent, utilities, food and other nessessities on unempolyment? Answer: Someone was supplying it to him.

      Best Wishes,

      AJ

      • JJ Swiontek

        “( any ammo or firearms purchases made by internet order…must be delivered to a licensed local shop and picked up from the local shop the same as any other ammo or firearm puchases…it’s the law)”

        Not so. In Colorado (as in most of the United States), delivery of ammo can be made directly to your front door. The exception is New Jersey, California, and (maybe) Massachusetts.

        And any purchases via credit card is a delayed payment that he has no intention of repaying.

      • RFP

        Wow! Now you are someone who did their research, unlike that moron on the News who said the shooter was a member of The Tea Party….what an arse….. Thanks for the great information

      • CZ52

        JJ Swiontek you are correct about the ammunition. He was correct about the firearms having to go through a dealer.

      • Robert

        This is very good information for us that I had forgot about & for keeping our 2nd Ammendment strong.
        I think every gun owner should have thier gun visible & be armed @ all times for everyones protection. Also be able to go in or anywhere you choose. This act would, I think make the criminal think twice. I too think there’s more to these actions & timing that don’t add up & more maneuvers by the New World Order in our faces.

      • glocker

        Not that it matters in this case, but California allows for the home delivery of ammo. There is no middleman ie. picking it up at a licensed dealer. I think you are being generous regarding prices, on the average we pay about 10% more. Lastly buying the weapons and sundries if purchased with a credit card explains how he was able to afford it. The only part that does not make sense is why would he warn the police about the booby-traps? Of course he may be mad as a hatter and not sensible at all based on his other behavior, or was it just professional courtesy?….

      • Average Joe

        glocker,
        You are correct, I was being generous with prices. I went to several different sites online and used the lowest prices I could find based on buying in bulk quantities. I did the same for the armaments.
        According to reports that I have heard and read, the weapons were purchased through two online outlets, so they had to be picked up locally…which seems silly to me ( since they could be bought locally for about the same price and not have to have it shipped). It almost seems as if someone is TRYING to leave a longer paper trail.

        Best Wishes,
        AJ

        • http://mgmnace.wordpress.com mgmnace

          Thanks for the info AJ. :)

      • Speak2Truth

        Consider the effectiveness of Scopolamine to turn a person into a politically useful monster.

        I was horrified to hear of Hillary Clinton and her Secret Service people partying it up in a brothel in Colombia where the stuff is commonly used by spies, criminals and so on…

        But THIS guy – so very convenient, since the exposure of Operation Gunrunner robbed the Left of using its deadly results as a propaganda tool against American gun ownership.

      • JeffH

        JJ Swiontek, ammunitions purchases can be delivered directly to the buyer in most states without restrictions but there are a few states, counties and cities that do have restrictions in place…know your state laws.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jerry.sutton.3304 Jerry Sutton

        A really good piece Average Joe….it is certainly worth forwarding to everybody. It
        wouldn’t do any good sending it to any liberal or socialist democrat…they’re tooooo
        brain-dead to understand.

  • Michael J.

    An armed society is a polite society, taking our guns will not make us safer. Humans were killing one another long before guns came along. After all, Cain used a rock to kill Able.

    • Flashy

      “One armed person in the movie theater where James Holmes went on his psychotic killing spree would have had the opportunity to greatly level the playing field. ”

      Ummm…that really makes me feel all safe and cozy. If some lunatic opens fire with an armory he was able to buy because of deranged people insisting on having free unfettered access to guns to satisfy a diminished testosterone level…or fanticizing about being Davy Crockett … in a crowded theatre…the toll of dead or injured would have doubled as the bullets flew everywhere.

      Jehosaphat! Are y’all totally off the deep end?

      I had a conversation about this subject the other day. And the guy said ‘yeah, but I need to have a gun to stop the bad guys. Did you hear about that armed robbery?”….when reminded it was on the east coast and he was on the west coast..that he ws never robbed nor ever thought he was in danger except when he put himself there…he remained insistent that “some lunatic’ will think he’s a super hero and try to stop someone…and he’ll have to jump in to gather the glory of stopping a crime.

      Jeesh….lunacy. It cannot be described any other way.

      • Native Texan

        Flashy, you would have a completely different viewpoimt if you had ever been in a situation such as this. I will repeat a truth that you seem to have missed. Guns don’t kill people; people kill people. I have owned at least one gun for over 60 years and have never worried about a situation such as this because I am prepared to deal with lunatics if the need arises. Your views are those of a naive sheep waiting to be preyed upon. Wake up, fool. Be prepared.

      • angelwannabe

        Either your paid well or you lay awake at night thinking some of this stuff up flashy or whatevera your name is today…its A right to protect ourselves and property and to help those that cannot protect themselves….(your guns for glory tactics aren’t working, so throw that out!) and I’ll use what ever means I have to do so, whether I have permission or not!!!!…AS Someone stated above… free people DON’T NEED PERMISSION!

      • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

        “Jeesh….lunacy. It cannot be described any other way.”
        Seems like you are doing a good job of describing yourself.

      • Ret Sgt

        Each and every year there are thousands of incidents where peoples lives are saved and crimes are thwarted and/or stopped by citizens who are legally armed. Since this goes against the liberal agenda, it is rarely, if ever, reported by the mainstream media. FBI statistics show that the locales with the strictest gun laws have the highest incidence of gun related crimes and those open carry states have the lowest. These stats also show a firearm error rate by police nationwide at 11%, whereas the error rate for armed civilians is only 2%. Therefore, firearms are generally 5 times safer in the hands of civilians than in the hands of the police.

        Gun-control laws don’t control guns, they disarm potential victims. Gun control is an ineffective tool in fighting crime because it leaves people vulnerable to criminals. Decades of such laws haven’t stopped crime or made us any safer. Criminals won’t be deterred by gun-control laws. Since the passage of the 1968 gun control act and similar laws, violent crimes, such as murder and robbery have risen drastically.

        As a judge stated in the 1878 Arkansas case of Wilson v. State, “Common sense dictates that inanimate objects, such as guns, are not responsible for human behavior. We don’t hold a match responsible for arson or a camera responsible for pornography. We rightly hold the people who misuse these tools liable. The same should be true for guns.”

        When you become emotionally attached to your opinions, you do not form them, they form you.

      • Wyatt

        Native Texan , there is no reasoning with Flashy . No matter what argument you present he will twist it and turn it to his own point of view . The guy is a left wing Koolaid drinking drone . His posistion will always be the left wing control the people point of view .
        The theater in question has a similar left wing policy and declared themselves a gun free zone . I suppose this is what they think is going to keep anyone from smuggling a weapon in . As it was the individual in question entered dressed as a normal movie goer , exited through a fire door which he propped open and went to his vehicle dressed in his body armor gas mask and kevlar helmet . Retrieved his weapons , and teargas cannisters then returned through the same door 15 mins later .
        Would an armed citizen have made a difference , I can’t say . But had the thought that there was possibly an armed citizen in the theater might have given the shooter pause about committing his crime . And to those who do not know it , an off-duty police officer is required to be prepared for emergencies at all times . This means he must have a firearm on his person even when off duty . True , they are trained for response to this sort of situation and Joe Citizen is not . However one or two citizens who take their ownership of firearms seriously and have invested in the safety and proper response tactics may just well have stopped this guy body armor or not . Even a small caliber bullet can produce a hard and jarring blow to body armor . And a larger round can break ribs and inflict great pain . Had an armed individual been on hand to return fire a lot less people would not have been wounded and fourteen others might be alive .
        Sorry to tell Flasher , that dispite what Hollywood , the gun grabbers Hillary and the left tell you , an armed puplic is a safe public and a polite public . You get in someones face and you may have to back it up . And if you research the history of the west . You find very , very few actual gunfights and shootouts , and they were mostly involving lawmen in the course of their duty .
        And actually , having followed comments Flasher Boy makes on a wide variety of topics , I have come to the conclusion that if one were to say its dark out , he would argue its broad daylight . he is simply one of those disagreeable types who likes to create discord and unrest . Hmm , a lot like the shooter in Aurora . A better question to ask would be to ask , how does a collage dropout get the $20,000 or so dollars to make his equipment purchases over a four month period . and as it is reported that he only made four large purchases in that period how did it not raise some government eyebrows .
        Sorry Flashy , but I have to suspect that even with all the gun grab laws in place , this demented shooter would have somehow gotten his arsenal and carried out his crime . It simply smacks of a much bigger plot and well thought out than a med student would come up with and better equipped that most SWAT teams . Be interesting to see what his trial produces . Or will the DOJ step in and wisk him away to a private local after his mock trial ? Gun Walking failed , the White House is in trouble with its record . What better than some distraction . Especially with a UN plot to disarm us vote coming up .
        Think about that Flasher , especially when they try to take our government .

      • Firefight

        “Ummm…that really makes me feel all safe and cozy. If some lunatic opens fire with an armory he was able to buy because of deranged people insisting on having free unfettered access to guns to satisfy a diminished testosterone level…or fanticizing about being Davy Crockett … in a crowded theatre…the toll of dead or injured would have doubled as the bullets flew everywhere.”

        You mean like the incident in Ocala, FL where two black, masked men entered an internet cafe with a gun and a baseball bat with the intent of robing the place and the customers only to find out that there was one armed citizen who KNEW what he was doing? He managed to shoot both of the perps, placing them in the hospital without harming a single other person on the premisis. Moronic people like you who know absolutely ZERO about self defense are always spouting what they think is right and in fact you know NOTHING about reversing the flow of blood. That theater has a “No Guns on Premisis” policy. Did that make any difference to James Holmes? Hell no! Only the good, honest, law abiding citizens observed this restriction and what did it get them? Flashy, stop being so led by the nose and look at the reality. IF, and I say IF there had been even one concealled carrying citizen in that audience who deployed his firearm and actually returned fire, it would have at least neutralized the situation long enough to allow more people to get out of the theater. That would have been the surprise that Holmes would NOT have been expecting. My personal carry gun, a Glock 23, has the Crimson Trace grip laser on it. I would have aimed at his eyes for a head shot and it would have, at the very least, blinded him or drawn his attention away from the others and toward me while I attempted to neutralize the entire threat with my head shot. Believe me Flashy, people like this deranged James Holmes love people who think like you, who cower and hate people like me who are hell bent on ruining their plans.

        P.S. My testerone level is just fine…….I am not deranged in my thinking. Only people like James Holmes and perhaps you, ARE. Davey Crockett died at the Alamo in a heroic stance for all men’s freedoms, something YOU will never understand and your assumption that the death toll would have doubled is testimony to your total lack of knowledge of dealing with such threats. Go get a gun, contact a self defense traning facility, go through the course. Then you will have some idea as to what the rest of us know.

      • ernest

        flashys just one that thinks he knows whats best for all of us, he thinks that he is a lot smarter the the ones that drafted the constution and wants to correct all their mistakes.

      • TML

        FLashy says, “…the toll of dead or injured would have doubled as the bullets flew everywhere.

        Jehosaphat! Are y’all totally off the deep end?”

        Bullets were already flying everywhere, genius. It would have been better to have some flying his direction. That wouldn’t have doubled the death toll, it would have added one very important one that started the whole thing.

        It’s not off the deep end

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TufS87KZYg&feature=share

      • Wil

        Seems more likely to me that hoplophobia is the result of diminished testosterone.Guns are loud and scary to the weak-minded.

      • romeyers

        I started to take offence to this then noticed who it was and was going to ignore it, but then all you people did just what he wanted you to do, he’s a troll and you people always take the bait.

      • CZ52

        “Your views are those of a naive sheep waiting to be preyed upon.”

        No Texan, his views are the views he is paid to parrot by those who would eliminate ever more of our rights and freedoms.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        romeyers, responding to Flashy is not necessarily being directed by him as much as he wishes it to be so. His posts are more of bragging to his Leftist handlers and buddies that he is a bright boy and has so much to say. The smaller the rooster the louder the crowing.

      • Dale left coast

        Flash . . . once again you demonstrate you are pathetically uninformed. One guy in the first few rows with a gun could have fired numerous shots which may not have killed the loon but surely would have knocked him over and distracted his attention . . . a good shot could have put one between the eyes and ended the issue.

      • phideaux

        Nadzieja and Flashy certainly crows loud. In fact one could draw the conclusion he crows so loud in an attempt to make up for his inadequacy in the “rooster” area.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        phideaux, reread your post. I may need insulting at times but must you put me in the same catagory as Flashy.

      • Patriot1776

        And just to add, if there had been a chance of at least one armed person in the theatre, this coward would probably not have attempted to go in. It takes no courage to walk into a room full of people that you know are not armed and shoot at them. This person doesn’t have that kind of courage. He wouldn’t shoot at someone that might shoot back.

      • DaveH

        Yes Flashman, you are indeed a lunatic. Statistics show that the more guns there are in society, the less crime there is. But then, your handlers don’t want people to know that, do they?
        http://www.johnlott.org/

      • DaveH

        Jeesh, that was a load of fabricated fact, Flashman. Why don’t you tell us your sniper story again?

      • http://mgmnace.wordpress.com mgmnace

        Flashy: I think that you get a bad rap and for the record, you are not always wrong, however this time you are way off the mark and I suggest you think about all of the reply’s you have received because each and every one of them are correct. Check those FBI stats you will see there are more compelling reasons for responsible concealed carry then not.

        Responsible gun owners know that the 4th rule of gun safety is to be sure of the target and what is behind/around it. Responsible gun owners understand gun safety and don’t indiscriminately fire their weapons in all directions. Two or three armed citizens in that theater would have ended the incident before it got started regardless of the fact that he had body amour and Vicodin to protect him from gunfire.

      • Vicki

        “The theater in question has a similar left wing policy and declared themselves a gun free zone . I suppose this is what they think is going to keep anyone from smuggling a weapon in .”

        The theater in question believes that signs actually work. Kind of like this.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8

      • Vicki

        romeyers says:
        “…all you people did just what he wanted you to do, he’s a troll and you people always take the bait.”

        Actually we are rarely talking to flashy. He is a paid or unpaid agent provocateur. What we do is ignore him when he sounds insane and respond to the insanity of his arguments when they might sound reasonable to other readers.

        We have even asked that he not be banned from the site cause he is such a good example of the theory that liberalism is a mental disorder.

        Either that or he is a conservative plant to try and make the liberal look bad. If so he is very good at it. :)

      • junkmail

        walking around hoping the next crime victim is not me would not be pleasant. I am not a mark or a sheep. Reality is that if I am armed, I will defend myself, my family, or anyone near me from harm. If I get injured or killed, I went out living a full life and by my principles.
        A little old lady with a concealed weapon can take out a criminal just as fast as I cold. The police will get there in about 15 minutes. I would rather be questioned by the police than have my family quizzed for my obituary

      • phideaux

        Sorry Nadzieja I could have phrased it better.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jerry.sutton.3304 Jerry Sutton

        Have you ever looked down the barrel of a gun from the wrong end….and felt so
        helpless that you wet your pants. With the knowledge of having a conceal weapon,
        I learned enough how to duck…draw weapon and discharge it at the bad guy before
        he can even blink. Its called self-defense…you should try it. I feel safer.

        • Charles Moore

          Again and Again. The standard 4 hour course for a CW permit with no firearm qualification on the range is a joke. it is possible for a person to get a CCW permit for years and never have fired a gun. All you have to do is keep renewing it by paying the license fee each time it expires. To say that “ANYBODY” sitting in a dark theater with a shooter spraying bullets and lobbing grenades could be taken out if somebody in the theater had a CCW permit is not correct.

    • focihasek

      NRA must realize that that not enough to fight for gunl licencel for people who
      believing it’s a status simbol, not an obligation to use it.Where were the NEA
      members to stop the 5-6 mass murder case? Nobody need gun to show up
      but don’t use it.NRA will earn my respect when a member s t o p a mass
      murderer not enough to blackmail the legistration for no reason !!!

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        NEA??? Would that be the National Education Association??? Or the National Endowment for the Arts??? ?????

      • Nadzieja Batki

        You are very immature in your reasoning. To keep everyone safe in their homes and places of business, large portion of the population would have to be police and military and stationed in homes and businesses of the people to keep them safe from nutters.
        It would be better if it was required (with fines attached) that people be trained on weapons of their choosing and have a required amount of ammo on hand for their own defense.

      • Wyatt

        Might be nice if focihasek could post a coherant sentance and get his organizations correct . Perhaps we would understand his meaning.

      • CZ52

        focihasek sounds like the third grade son or daughter of an extreem anti gun couple trying to repeat what mommy and daddy discussed last night.

      • Vicki

        Nadzieja Batki says:
        “It would be better if it was required (with fines attached) that people be trained on weapons……”

        There was such a time. Liberals convinced the public to drop Selective Service around 1973. Come to think of it mass shootings became more common after that. And after the GCA of 1968. Co-incidence?

      • Michael J.

        fosamax,
        Your Osteo has corupted brain function, consult your physician.

      • Michael J.

        Nadzieja Batki says:
        “It would be better if it was required (with fines attached) that people be trained on weapons of their choosing and have a required amount of ammo on hand for their own defense.”

        No, it is better the way it is with people making these decisions and keep the government out of it.

      • Kinetic1

        Vicki,
        Selective service did not teach all Americans, just those who didn’t have wealthy or powerful parents who could keep them out of the armed services.

      • Vicki

        Kinetic1 says:
        “Vicki,
        Selective service did not teach all Americans, just those who didn’t have wealthy or powerful parents who could keep them out of the armed services.”

        And which would you prefer? 99% trained or 1% (about what we have now) trained?

      • http://www.facebook.com/jerry.sutton.3304 Jerry Sutton

        The NRA does not have to defend its-self. Its standing up for our rights for us to
        defend ourselves. A nut will kill anyone with anything just to get his name on the
        media…and if I needed help in the middle of the night, I’m on my own. The small
        town cops are so busy writing tickets (its the only money-maker they have) that
        they really wouldn’t know what to do. So, it is up to me to defend myself and my
        family…and I can if I have a weapon. Without one, I’m helpless…and maybe I’ll
        have to witness something happening to my wife, like Willie Horton…remember
        him….set free by the gove of Mass….then continued his raping and killing.
        Damn…I’ve had enough of you God-damned liberal democrats. I’m armed and
        I feel safer.

    • Michael J.

      Flashy,
      You pink panty liberals reaction to these things is soooo predictable. Political Correctness has robbed you of your mascalinity. Three people in that theatre used their own bodies to shield their loved ones, you probably would have just melted into a puddle of pee. Man-up and grow a pair. Because right now your fear is more obvious than a banana in a bikini. If George Washington shared your lack of cahoneys, we’d still be speaking British!!!

      Now run along, ya bother me!

  • Gary L

    In the words of Archie Bunker, maybe they would feel better if instead of being shot they were pushed out of windows. I’d bet that these anti gun nut jobs are steadfast in the hope that these shootings occur so they can try to convince the masses of morons that taking guns away from law abiding citizens will fix everything. The real issue is not about guns as much as it is about CONTROL.

    • Ret Sgt

      You are right, but for those who believe… no proof is necessary. For those that don’t… no proof is enough.

    • Rod

      You see the horrible results in Colorado, but in gun free countries things like this and worse happen. Take Norway; a guy dressed as a policeman went to an island resort area and shot 80 people, mostly children. The police didn’t arrive for over an hour, he could continue shoot as many as he could find. Being “gun free” definitely has disastrous results; no defense of self or innocents. I have a concealed carry permit, and while I don’t carry all the time, I do carry when I’m out fishing or hunting or family outings. Gun free zones are an invitation for “crazies” to start shooting, they know they will have little or no opposition for some time. You can’t legislate against insanity, or the committed criminal; they’ll find some way to do an evil deed. That might include flying airplanes into crowded buildings, shooting up a school, attacking people in a restaurant with a knife, or stalking a politician, committing a robbery and so on. “Crazies” and criminals in every country will get whatever weapon they need to do what they want to do. As has been proven many times Government cannot stop this kind of person(s).

    • afdbghq

      The liberals/left gun control freaks only see an opportunity to push for more stricter gun control laws as a result of this terrible tragedy. If they would really look at what happened they would see:

      1) the theatre has a no guns allowed policy in place.

      2) the shooter ignored the policy

      3) the law abiding citizens obeyed the policy

      4) the shooter knew he would not have to worry about anybody in the theatre shooting back at him

      This incident only proves that no matter how strict the gun control laws are, the criminal will simply ignore the law and use a weapon to commit their crime regardless of how many and how strict the laws are.

      Also more people die in automobile accidents every year than are killed by guns. Where is the outcry demanding that automobiles be outlawed?

      More people are injured in bathtub accidents each year than are killed by guns each year. Where is the demand to outlaw bathtubs?

      There are many more examples but no one is advocating outlawing or restricting any of these items.

      • Kinetic1

        afdbghq,
        Your right, the shooter knew he wouldn’t have anyone shooting back, but what if it had been more difficult to amass the sorts of weapons he was carrying? I have no problem with gun ownership or the right to get a CCW permit. Where I find issue is the ease with which anyone without a police record can go out and legally purchase weapons designed for combat. I love a nice Winchester 44 and I enjoy shooting my little AR7 back pack rifle, but why do you need an AR15 with a 100 round clip?

        As for those of you using the tired old argument about banning cars and baseball bats, we get it; anything can be used as a weapon. The point is that these other products have a regular, useful purpose other than killing. I’m not suggesting that you give up your hunting rifle, or even a pistol bought for self defense, but why should it be so easy to purchase weapons who’s sole purpose is to get off as many rounds as possible in 60 seconds? Had this guy been limited to these more sane weapons the number of people shot would have been greatly reduced and, if they had allowed legal carry then an armed viewer would have had a much better chance of stopping him.

        • E. Blake

          We should be able to buy these weapons, because we want to, we like to go out on the weeks and have fun with them! And all you are doing by letting them ban one single weapon, is letting the camals nose in the tent. Besides 1000′s of these weapons are owned across this country, and a couple of occupier types go out and do this crap,
          and we all should pay for their crimes???

  • JDH

    Colorado is a concealed carry state, but this paricular movie theater chain bans firearms form any of its locations nationwide unless carried by uniformed police officers. If it were not for this policy, there would probably have been armed citizens in the audience.

    • Jonathan

      Exactly the problem. Most shopping malls, sporting venues, and movie theaters forbid carry (concealed or open) inside the property. Private property owners can choose to allow or not per their state law. Nutcases like this guy know that places where weapons are prohibited and large groups of people congregate are prime targets for their evil acts. So, it leaves people with one of three choices: petition the owners of these places to allow open/concealed carry in their property OR don’t go to places like these where weapons carry is prohibited by the property owner(s).

      Personally, I prefer to open carry (which is allowed in Pennsylvania) as it is more comfortable for me and I prefer to let others know I am carrying for my safety and that of other people around me. If some would-be bad guy sees me carrying and decides to not execute his planned mayhem at the risk of me ending his sorry excuse for a life, so much the better. And for those anti-gunners in the crowd who get their panties in a twist because I am carrying, well if you really don’t want me to protect you, then I won’t.

      • Jonathan

        Should have been one in two choices.

      • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

        There are more than two choices…ALWAYS. My third choice would be to ignore the theater or mall prohibition. After all, I am not going to pull a gun out unless I NEED to. So who is going to know besides me and God?

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Mark, unfortunately you would go to jail! Even if you saved everyone in the theatre, they would charge you with a felony. We’re supposed to roll over and do whatever the gunman says. I will say this, if everyone were armed it would really cut down the robberies etc… Currently, the bad guys know that no one will try to stop them.

      • afdbghq

        The third choice should have been to ignore the no gun policy and carried anyway. The criminal ignores such stupid laws so why not the law abiding citizen

      • Kinetic1

        Jonathan and Nancy,
        Were I the sort who would commit armed robbery or assault, the people with visible guns would be the first I would shoot. If I knew that everyone had a weapon, I might not be so bold about holding up a public building, but I would know to shoot on sight anyone who came in while I was robbing their home.

        • Charles Moore

          You are correct. Different States have different Laws regarding CCW . There are some States that have also gone to open carry. It is a fact that Crime has gone down an average of 30% in States that went from no CCW permits to CCW permits. Criminals are going to take the path of least resistance and if they are going to be in a situation where somebody has a visible weapon then they are going to take them out first so as not to be a threat.

    • JJ Swiontek

      Actually, Colorado is an open-carry state with conceal-carry-by-permit and open-carry is banned in Denver, Boulder, and several cities that believe local rules supersede state Constitution. And less than 1% of the population have permits.

    • Dale left coast

      I would bet the Shooter knew there would be no guns in the theatre . . .
      No guns policies are an invitation to disaster . . .

      • nc

        Dale if everyone carries their gun to the theatre some guy will fart some night and five of those legally armed but mentally ill types will shoot him where sits! If you must have the gun you must have the urge!!

      • afdbghq

        nc says:

        Dale if everyone carries their gun to the theatre some guy will fart some night and five of those legally armed but mentally ill types will shoot him where sits! If you must have the gun you must have the urge!!

        So by your reasoning, if you play violent video games then you must have the urge to actually kill people.

        If you enjoy reading action books then you must have the urge to kill people and will ultimately act on your urge.

        Your reasoning is as flawed as you mental capabilities. Please never get a weapon of any kind because you would be the first to immediately use it in any situation without first evaluating the circumstances.

  • http://comcast roger

    If there was a group of traiined and armed people watching the movie maybe less would of been killed. with the internet a crazy can figure out how to make a bomb with what they have under the kitchen sink so dont blame it on guns, if you want to kill there are better ways.

    • Gary L

      Roger,
      SSSSHHHHH. Are you trying to get the internet banned. LOL

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        It’s coming, regardless!

  • Steve

    I went to the movies yesterday afternoon. The theater had the “no guns” signs up on the doors and I respected their wishes and left mine in the car. Normally I do not even go into a business that has the sign but I weighed the risk and went in anyway. I once paid more for a new TV across the street from a store that had the “no guns” signs and called to let them know.

    A lot of people carry their guns in anyways and I have done so as well. Do I risk going to jail? Yes. Am I willing to go to jail instead of being unprotected? Yes.

    When seconds count the police are only minutes away. Even with all the police at the theater that night for crowd control it still one and a half minutes for them to respond.

    • HH

      When someone’s shooting at you and you have no way to defend yourself one and one half minutes is an eternity!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      FINALLY! Someone with BALLS!

  • http://www.survivingurbancrisis.com/ Silas Longshot

    As long as the public allows gun grabbing, rights infringing leftist morons to dictate that certain areas are gun free killing zones like theaters (company ‘rule’ only, here) schools, churches, malls and other targets of mass murder opportunities, then tragedy like this will occur time and time again. A single crazy this time, but watch for muslim terrorists to start the same thing they used to get away with in other countries…..taking over entire schools for hostages, attacking churches like they do today. Every instance has the common feature of being a gun free killing zone that’s supposed to ‘keep these things from happening’. These laws are useless, we didn’t need them before these events and we damsure don’t need them now.

  • angelwannabe

    If a concealed carrier was packing some heat the night of the theater shooting, the gunman may have have been stopped, before so many innocents died….

  • WilliamH

    Watching interviews with various officials they stated that the theater was posted against concealed carry. Don’t know what the specifics of concealed carry laws are in Aurora, CO are, but people following the rules had a choice….. Follow the law / rules or be a lawbreaker. With few exceptions, I don’t deal with people who have no concealed carry signs.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      How can you be a “law breaker” when the ultimate law says….THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Better watch out! International treaties supersede the constitution!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Semantics.

      • Arlene

        I believe that refers to government control not private property control. Your choice would be to go into the private establishment or not.

      • Kinetic1

        MAR,
        The 2nd amendment, like the 1st regulates the government. Just as Sarah Palin should understand that her rights were not infringed by broadcasters unwilling to give her carte blanche to say whatever she wanted, you should understand that it is not a 2nd amendment violation when a business or household denies you the right to enter with your gun.

    • Average Joe

      Nancy in Nebraska ,

      If the Senate passes the International Small arms treaty, (in the words of Andrew Jackson) “now let them enforce it”.

      It will be no easy task, NATO troops or otherwise and yes, it will be NATO troops on our Soverign soil…an Act of War. ( we will finally know how the rest of the world feels…invaded and occupied).
      Does anyone not wonder why 80% of American troops are elsewhere in the world…rather than here…in America…Defending America? Or why the Police are becoming increasingly militarized? This is by design….prepping for the upcoming invasion of America by foreign forces…who will have no problem shooting American citizens.

      We are on our own ladies and gentleman. There will be no troops backing us up. There will be no Police on our side. We have been put on notice. We are ( as Kate8 said yesterday) on RED ALERT!

      Recognize the signs and be prepared for the worst. If it doesn’t happen, so much the better…but I would rather be prepared…than not be prepared.

      “No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders.” ― Samuel Adams

      “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” ― Samuel Adams

      Best Wishes,
      AJ

  • dan

    The question you have to ask your self is: Is concealed or open carry
    and defense of life and property/liberty (inalienable) a right…or do you need to
    ask permission. Free men have rights….slaves must ask their masters permission.
    Your right to ask me to give up my right asks me to forfeit my liberty.

  • By George

    It was quite obvious that the Colorado shooter was not in violation of concealed carry laws. It is also quite obvious that no patrons of the theater were armed with concealed carry weapons that might have stopped the carnage a bit earlier. Go figure!

  • TOCB

    The arguments the writer makes to support not banning guns, to me makes a better argument for banning guns. Ok, I am willing to not ban all guns, just military grade guns. Surely sensible people come to agreement on this.

    • Rob

      There are two types of people. Those who hammer their guns into plows, Plow for the people who don’t WAKE UP!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      I want MILITARY GRADE guns to protect myself from someone who ignores the law and has a MILITARY GRADE gun. WTF is wrong with people like you? Dr. Susanna Hupp: on the second amendment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      The problem with banning military grade guns is this, if we ever need to defend ourselves from the government or the UN, we would be far outgunned. The main purpose of the second Ammendment was to provide for the defense of the citizenry. We will need an even playing field to defend ourselves.

      • Amused.

        I’m sorry, Nancy. I love your romantic view that guns would protect us from our government, but that’s not really true any more.

        Think about this: Saddam Hussein had tanks, guns, mortars, jets, copters, etc., and an army of 200,000 – 300,000. The coalition forces rolled them up in three weeks.

        Yeah, I know…you’re a much better shot and much braver than all of those in the Iraqi army.

        But let’s get really serious. Do you really think you’ll “defend yourself” against the US government by hiding behind rocks, living in bunkers, etc., in a full blown rebellion?

        Are you more effectively armed than the guy who spent years stockpiling weapons? And even if you’re more motivated, I have no doubt that should the American army be called upon to put down a rebellion, they will do their duty for the elected government.

        Remember the Whiskey Rebellion? Remember the Bonus Army?

        If you think today’s minutemen/militia would stand a chance against the US Military, you are delusional. If you think that the military would “change sides” in meaningful numbers, you are even more delusional.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Amused, guns are the best chance we’ve got! When the sh*t hits the fan, people will start to wake up, including the military. I’m not suggesting that it will be easy or fast. I’m suggesting that the spirit of the American people will EVENTUALLY rise up and they will take back the country. Guns, and especially “military” style guns will make it easier! No romance in that!!!

      • Michael J.

        Amused,
        Not so fast, the worlds super power of the day, the British, thought we’d be a push-over and you see how that turned out.

      • Michael J.

        Amused,
        I too was concerned about government firepower until I got the kinks worked out of the new fulton torpedos I mounted on my VTOL 4×4. The tricky part is remembering to disengage the cloaking device prior to launching the torpedos. It seems that the Flir can not see through the cloaking device and leaves me firing blind.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      It appears that you don’t know what military grade weapons are. You would consider knives a military grade weapon just because Marines and Soldiers buy them.

    • Sanders

      Hey TOCB,

      You said, “Ok, I am willing to not ban all guns, just military grade guns. Surely sensible people come to agreement on this.”

      Under your “sensible people” theory, authorities would snowball this until the “sensible people” would be left with nothing but single shot break action guns. Certainly not enough fire power to protect ones self from a crazed lunatic who got their hands on a repeater firearm of any kind. Keep in mind that if any guns are outlawed, only the outlaws and police will own them. Don’t take my word for it, just look across the pond at England and Australia where all private firearms ownership has been outlawed. In these countries, the violent crimes against the law abiders has increased tremendously since they lost their rights to own guns. Then there are those who are unlucky enough to live in the inner city where gangs of thugs prey on the innocent. How would one stave off a gang with a single shot? Answer: They wouldn’t, they would just get dead.

      • http://www.sweetsalesgirl.com/Kuurus/ Charles Johnson

        What makes you think they’d leave us even muzzle loaders? They’d outlaw all weapons that could fire a projectile!!

  • Homer

    GUNS never kill people, any more than lead pencils get bad grades on tests! Getting into your garage does not make you and automobile either! All citizens should use and own a firearm! HOWEVER: if there is a murder in cold blood, then capitol punishment is to be executed for the individual who perpetrates that crime!! GUN CONTROL is people control and that is what this govt is alllllll about!!

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Love it!!!

  • robotech

    with over 80 million guns in the USA, why hasn’t there been 80 million incidents like this one?
    Because MOST people with firearms don’t have them to go out and commit mass murder, or even to commit a crime.
    Most firearm owners are law abiding.
    People buy them to have piece of mind (defense of life and property) for a hobby, to hunt, etc.
    Although fewer in number, a majority of gun owners are responsible people who know that once the bullet leaves the barrel, you can’t take it back. It’s called personal responsibility.
    A lot of us had parents (fathers) that taught us to use these tools properly, and to have respect for them.
    So, out of 60 Million gun owners, a handful commit atrocities. This has happened since two cavemen lived next to each other. You don’t need a gun to kill your neighbor. You may need a gun to protect your neighbor.
    But, as usual, these moonbat Liberals prove the old adage.
    Conservatives don’t like something, they don’t have it.
    Liberals don’t like something, they don’t want anyone else to have it.
    Power freaks, each and every one.

    • robowang

      Whoops, I meant that a lot of people have been taught to respect the firearm as a tool by fathers/grandfathers, on RARE occasion, a mother (and I mean RARE), Military and or some law enforcement entity.
      Also, I meant that although fewer in number today than in the past years, people have been taught respect. BUT, the MAJORITY of firearm owners still have a respect for the firearms they keep.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Women are buying and training on weapons at this time in history. This is not reported except in NRA publications, WSJ, and on sites like this.

      • CZ52

        Nadzieja while it is true the information on women and firearms isn’t reported nationaly it is reported on by some local stations and papers.

    • Sanders

      Unfortunately, this doesn’t stop at the Liberals. There are many morons in the Republican field as well. Mayor Michael Bloomberg is one of the absolute worst of them. Granted there seems to be far more on the left side of the aisle than the right, but don’t fool yourself into thinking this is just a Liberal issue. Before you pull the lever when voting, make sure you have done your research into the history of who you are voting for.

      • Ret Sgt

        Wise advice.

      • CZ52

        Sanders, Bloomberg is a liberal. Just because he choses to call himself a Republican this year doesn’t change the fact he is an ever bigger government liberal.

        • Charles Moore

          I agree. Bloomberg is not a Republican. He is a RINO at best. He is a Liberal.

  • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

    I could be wrong, but I thought I read that it was illegal to carry a concealed gun in a movie theater in Colorado.

    • HH

      It’s not against the law to carry in a theater in Colorado, it’s the owner of the establishment who decides if he/she wants patrons to carry in their business.

    • angelwannabe

      Its only illegal if you get caught…..

      • HH

        I really don’t think they could prosecute you even if you did get “caught”. I think all they could do legally would be to throw you out of the theater.

      • Jonathan

        It is not illegal. However, if the private property owner says, “Leave my property with your weapon,” you have to leave, otherwise you risk tresspassing charges.

      • Sanders

        It does, however, leave you wondering. If a concealed carrier had been in the theatre and stopped the lunatic with a well placed bullet, what would be his/her fate from the law. Would they be praised for their heroic action or would they have been jailed and prosecuted for carrying when the owners signs clearly stated “No guns allowed”?

        • Ret Sgt

          If it’s your own life at stake…..it’s a no brainer.

  • Chester

    I seriously doubt that anyone armed with less than a 30.06 with armor piercing ammunition could have stopped this nut, as he was in full body armor. That protects all the easy kill spots. leaving only the head, and, as I understand, that would have been a bit of a hard shot as well, what with the gas mask and all. It wouldn’t have been impossible, but would have been a LOT harder.

    • HH

      Yea Chester, but I’d have emptied all 15 rounds if my 9mm at his head tryin’………… AND hope I’d remembered to bring my extra clip with me in case none of the first 15 found their mark!!!

      • http://www.sweetsalesgirl.com/Kuurus/ Charles Johnson

        Fire at the area between the helmet and shoulder.

  • Ray Pappas

    May I remind everybody that there was another shooting in the same Aurora suburb only a few months earlier, but with another outcome. A deranged individual shot and killed the mother of a pastor in the parking lot of a church on April 22, but before he could continue, was shot dead himself by a conceal/carry citizen. Strangely, that news did not make it into the propaganda rags – WHY? I guess killing a criminal and preventing mass murder is not sexy enough for today’s reporters – or are they getting paid off to quash politically incorrect news?

    • Jonathan

      It’s both. Unless some crazy kills lots of people, it won’t lead the evening news. And long has the media been in the pocket of the left.

    • HH

      Not to pee on anyone’s fire but that “conceal/carry” citizen was actually an off duty police officer. MOST off duty LEO’s carry AND can carry where ordinary citizens can’t.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS IN AUSTRALIA

    Let me please first declare that IMO its too late to remove guns from your citizens in a safe and orderly fashion because the honest would give up the guns first and be at the mercy of the criminals and the insane.. Secondly your police services heads have got too much at stake in their power bases to want to reduce lawlessness no matter how caring they may appear to be politically…more crime means more demand for police, more power and more rules to control the public, your right to bear arrms has become your enermy but you wont believe me.
    … looking at the history and statistics of these mass murders ….it would seem that most were not criminals before the killings,,,but they were mainly inane or had serious personality disorders trying to mimic something seen on TV…or suffering delusions of granduer, religious cults etc and some reacted to police being over enthusiastic in policing.

    In an ideal gun free society where police and military only had guns and farmers still had shotguns for farming purposes but belonged to rifle clubs as a prerequisite to be able to buy rifles…then IMO opinion it would be less likely to have mass muder situations on the spur of the moment because these loonies where less likely to get guns at will by going to a gun shop and just buy one. Yes the big time crimes would still have guns…but again in my opinion…mostly used guns to kill each other over territory etc …so no great loss and yes there would be collateral killings but imo a great deal less than currently is the case. But as i said before..IMO .its much too late for the USA to even bother talking about limiting guns and your politicians already know this and are living with it as a big burden on your political ancestory a big mistake for modern times…but your stuck with it just like your stuck with your slavery ancestory. I dont have any answers for your problems now….thats your problem and good luck.

    Australia is very different but many farmers still have lots of shotguns for vermin erradication and belong to sporting gun clubs and the majority of our citizen feel relatively safe in cinemas etc but if they feel unsafe in some suburbs they can just more to nicer more expensive areas or just avoid the problem spots at night. Its not easy to buy a gun but if a crim wanted one you still can get them illegally…but when people get angry …they tend to cool off by the time they get anywhere near a gun and think more clearly of the consequences, whereas in your country…most have a gun handy in a drawer or on their person at the time of their mental episode and crack up, pick up the gun and shoot first think about it later. . Some stats suggest 1 in 5 has some level of madness sometime during their lifetime…be it jealousy, or mental infirmity when older…enough to cause all manner of issues to escalate sooner into a killing or suicide or accident… Hope you can see the difference…adding to the debate and not telling you what to do either.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      No, it is not the “honest” that would give them up. It would be the RETARDS. Anyone willing to give up their means of protecting themselves from criminals in the populace or criminals in the government are nothing but ass kissing cowards. Oh, is that what most “Aussies” are?

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS IN AUSTRALIA

        Mark Are Reynolds…you are a rude fool.

    • macawma

      Well, Gilly, I have to tell you that I have first hand experience with the gun laws in AU as we own a farm there. AU’s gun laws SUCK!!! I can’t even (legally) carry a loaded rifle out on the property to kill wild dogs. Noooo, gotta get the ammo out of a separate locked container and then load as the quarry runs off, no doubt laughing in doggie chuckles. Not only that, but the time is coming when all the damn muslims that AU has allowed to migrate down under WILL rise up in jihad and the common citizen of AU will have no defense. Stupid, stupid gun laws, following the example of the Crown. Look where it’s gotten them…

      • Charles Moore

        This used to be the Law in Washington.The Guns had to be locked up and the ammunition would have to be in a separate location. If one had a break in of their home then they would have to retrieve the gun then the ammunition and then load the gun. By that time the intruder could be in your house and kill you.

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS IN AUSTRALIA

        Are you saying you needed a gun in Australia that bad? Our rules work very well here, even though not perfect, BUT as i stated before, it WONT work in the USA. Your are too scared of your neighbours, too paranoid….two paranoid people with guns creates a very dangerous situation.

    • HH

      Sounds like Australian thinking to me……….. keep it down under please we don’t want that here! We’d be MUCH better off with NO gun control for competent US citizens!!!

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS IN AUSTRALIA

        HH, I already said that the Australian system wont work in the USA…nor in Washington it cant work in any state when you have neighbours in other states without control. It cant work…its too late.

        Anyone one know what happens in Canada?

  • Pat Ridge

    What’s it going to take before action is taken to stop??? A madman armed with a M60 killing 50 or 100 people.I wrote in a USA TODAY reply section many years ago after another gun nut went crazy in a McDonalds ( San Diego)killing 21 people most of them children stating this type of massacre will happen and again and nothing will done,sadly I was correct. Since I wrote that note I reckon over 100,000 Americans have been killed by gunfire,to think we invaded 2 countries because 3,000 Americans were killed on Sept 11 makes you wonder.As for the Aurora shooting it will be forgotten by next week and once again nothing will done and as long the NRA have the politicians in their pocket nothing will change. My prayers and condolences to the families of Aurora.

    • angelwannabe

      What pray tell, exactly should be done?

      • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

        We should disarm everyone except the special knightly portion of the populace. The POLICE and MILITARY. Most of whom could get a job in the private sector so they decided to become glorified welfare recipients. I’d feel SOOOOO much safer if only “They” had guns….People…get a life!

      • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

        I meant COULD NOT get a job.

      • angelwannabe

        Mark are R, I love how these gun banning nuts, go balistic in the aftermath of a tragedy…if somone is coming after me or mine, you can bet you azz Ill return fire, throw rocks, or use whatever I can make a weapon out at the time, I might die in the process, but I’ll go down fighting!

    • Nadzieja Batki

      What’s your beef against the NRA?

    • Sanders

      The NRA is in NO POLITICIANS POCKETS, you are in IDIOT. The NRA stands up against those who would otherwise dismantle the 2nd amendment because they know if not for this right, all other rights would perish. Read some history of some of history’s worst oppressive and murderous governments and you will find that most, if not all, of them disarmed their citizenry before unleashing hell on them.

      This great organization, the NRA, does not donate to any politicians campaigns, but they will air their own opinions on some.

      • Ret Sgt

        Absolutely correct.

        • Charles Moore

          People need to read the account in Washington D,C where it was the Law that homeowners who owned a weapon had to have it locked up and unloaded. The ammunition for it had to be in a separate location. So if you had an intruder in your house then you would have to unlock your safe. . get the ammunition in another location. load your gun and hope that you did it before the intruder was in your house and killed you and your family. The NRA got it changed. Even then the Government fought it all the way to the U.S Supreme Court.

    • Charles Moore

      Nonsense. The highest crime rate due to firearms is in Washington D.C. and Chicago Illinois that have the strictest gun control laws in the Country. Until a few years ago a homeowner in Wash D.C. if he/she owned a gun they had to keep it locked up in a safe and the ammunition in another location. If your hone had an intruder then you had to unlock the safe , retrieve the gun, get the ammunition from the other location and load the gun. By that time the intruder could be in your home and you and your family could be dead. The average citizen doesn’t have the resources to fight this and protect yourself. The NRA got this absurd law removed. The mother of the shooter in Colorado was interviewed by Police in California and she stated” You have the right person”. What does that suggest? I am watching this guy in court today and he has his hair dyed like the “Joker” in Batman.

      The News also stated that he was attending College on a Federal Grant, HMMMMM

    • CZ52

      An M60 is a machine gun. There is exactly ONE instance of a legaly owned machine gun being used in a crime. That ONE incident was a police officer using a department machine gun to commit a crime.

  • DavidL

    This situation, and this entire issue, is more complex than the article suggests when it states the following:

    “One armed person in the movie theater where James Holmes went on his psychotic killing spree would have had the opportunity to greatly level the playing field.”

    Think about it. You in a dark theater and tear gas is dropped in on you. Your eyes are stinging, your nose is running, and you are choking for air. Even though you are disorientated, perhaps not if you are John Wayne, you pull the gun you are packing. Fifteen other people are packing and do the same. Guns are pulled by all and shots fired. WHO IS THE GUN MAN?

    The result? A circular firing squad erupts and Innocent persons are killed. Good citizens like Bob Livingston, Sam Rolley, Shaun Murray, DaveH, Vickie, MichaelJ, WilliamH, and all the people who write on this site. What should we say to make sense of this tragedy and to comfort the families of these dead? Should we say things like “They died protecting the second amendment”? “They were brave and caring people. It just didn’t work out for them this time”? “Right up until the very end, they were freedom loving people”? “Because of your loss, the NRA is giving a great discount on gas masks and shooting lessons”?

    I would have no idea what to say anymore than many of us writing on this site I think. I would, however, say that it is not unreasonable to advocate that society come up with some kind of gun regulation solution that significantly improves the prevention rate of these wackos getting the gun in the first place. Simplifying the issue by always advocating the “one size fits all solution” of everyone packing, as well as throwing the zealot bomb, doesn’t help. I am a combat veteran, gun owner and competitive shooter. Closing the gun show loophole, and doing more thorough background checks is not zealotry, it’s common sense.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      if you think what you just stated is common sense, you are sadly mistaken.

      • DavidL

        Which part? Please be specific and give us your analysis and solution to this incident.

      • Sanders

        David,

        I, among many on this site, appreciate your serevice to our country, BUT, There is no “gun show loophole”. You’ve been duped by the media. You need to quit paying tribute to the mass media in this country because they are poisoning your mind with their propaganda.

      • JeffH

        “Closing the gun show loophole, and doing more thorough background checks is not zealotry, it’s common sense.”

        1 – The term “gun show loophole” is nothing more than an anti-gun talking pointabout something that doesn’t exist. If it’s legal, it can’t be a loophole.

        2 – “common sense” is another political code term used to remove or restrict out freedoms.

        3 – Anyone who wishes to purchase a firearm or an explosive device must first pass the FBI National Instant Background Check System (NICS) in order to complete their purchase.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      I think if the gunman had someone shooting back at him, he might retreat or at least hesitate long enough for more people to escape. The fact that these people KNOW that their victims are helpless emboldens them!

    • Incredulous

      I’m a CCW holder and have thought about what might have occurred in that theater. 1) it was DARK and NOISY (movie was playing). 2) People were screaming and running EVERYWHERE. 3) Tear gas was used. Now, granted, having a weapon may have been better than not having a weapon but given the sheer pandemonium going on in that theater, what “might” have occurred if someone pulled their CW? Innocent people being shot? The guy also had body armor and 9mm loads (a popular CCW load) wouldn’t have done anything. It’s so easy to pontificate about how brave and quick thinking we would be if put in the same position but for the average (and I am referring to AVERAGE) CCW holder, I think a reality check is in order.

      It should raise the stakes for all of us that do carry. Train, train, train, and train.

      • Sanders

        TRAIN, ABSOLUTELY! The best train of thought here would be to “aim small, miss small”. My CW weapon is my Glock 45 ACP with a rear sight lazer, which I have trained extensively to hit very small targets at up to 20 yds. Had I been there, packing, I would have put a round either in the middle of his neck or the middle of his gas mask.

      • Vicki

        And either of those shots would have hurt a lot and certainly distracted the shooter. However as we learn more about the case we find that Charles Moores magic armor was nothing other than thicker clothing. Not anything like good ballistic armor.

        Run liberals. Facts ahead.
        http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/07/22/fox-no-body-armor-for-aurora-theater-shooter/

        • Charles Moore

          Vicki. Are you so stupid that you think that if you repeat something enough times that it will be true? The chances of a qualified shooter being in that theater at the time even if there were the existence of a CCW law was almost Nil. There is a big difference in shooting in a controlled environment at a still paper target etc and in a dark theater when the shooter is spraying it and lobbing grenades. What difference does it make if the armor was fake or not.Do you think that maybe the people in the theater might have had powers of Telepathy and would have known that?.
          What is bothersome and scary is that you are a CCW holder. Did you get it from one of the States that are granting them to other States without participating in that actual State?You have proven my point that CCW holders on the average can lack common sense and be untrained.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “Vicki. Are you so stupid that you think that if you repeat something enough times that it will be true?”

        Too funny coming from Charles Moore who has repeated many times in this thread that the magic body armor made the shooter as immune to the laws of physics as the shooter was to the laws of man. (you know the law against MURDER)

        At least I haven’t called you stupid. I am content to let you to demonstrate.

        Charles Moore” The chances of a qualified shooter being in that theater at the time even if there were the existence of a CCW law was almost Nil.”

        Lower down in this thread you laughed at critical thinking. We see why.

        Charles Moore: “There is a big difference in shooting in a controlled environment at a still paper target etc and in a dark theater when the shooter is spraying it and lobbing grenades.”

        Interesting that you keep repeating non-existent grenades. Have you confused a report of tear-gas canisters with grenades?

        Speaking of controlled environments the whole point of allowing CCW in the theater is not to place the CCW holder in an uncontrolled environment it is to remove the controlled environment from the SHOOTER.

        Charles Moore the mind reader attempts to read my mind by saying:
        “What difference does it make if the armor was fake or not.Do you think that maybe the people in the theater might have had powers of Telepathy and would have known that?.”

        Since they did not have firearms it makes no difference. Had they had firearms I would hope they would shoot first and worry about the body armor after the shooter was neutralized. They might note that if the shooter appears to be wearing body armor the better tactical move would be to close and engage the neck and head but that is asking a lot of the not currently well regulated militia.

        Charles Moore: “What is bothersome and scary is that you are a CCW holder.

        Not as bothersome and scary as thinking that you might be one.

        Charles Moore: ” You have proven my point that CCW holders on the average can lack common sense and be untrained.”

        Interesting phrase. “on average can lack” The phrase actually has no possible meaning as there is no quantitative way to analyze it. It could mean all or none or anything in between. It reminds me of the rhetoric from politicians. Talking a lot and saying nothing.

    • Charles Moore

      The survivors claimed that they thought it was part of the Premiere and was firecrackers etc. I would think that the theater using firecrackers etc in a theater would be illegal so why the thought?. Even if somebody else would have had a gun and a clear shot it would make no difference as the shooter was covered head to toe in body armor purchased on the Internet from a company that supplies it to Police and the Military.Anybody else with a gun would not have armor piercing bullets,

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore writes:
        “Even if somebody else would have had a gun and a clear shot it would make no difference as the shooter was covered head to toe in body armor…”

        Just one more reason why law abiding citizens (and police) need armor piercing rounds.

        And you have obviously no idea how much it hurts to be hit in the armor. It would have surprised him (one of the major tactical advantages of CONCEALED carry) and the law abiding citizen time to close the distance and apply one or more shots to the gas mask.

        It would have given more people time to get out of the theater. More time for the police to get in. More time for other moviegoers to jump the shooter.

        Btw this shooting clearly illustrates the accuracy of one of those sound bites that the liberals hate.

        “When seconds count the police are only minutes away.”

        Just think about how close the police happened to be and it still was a long response time for the victims.

    • JJ Swiontek

      “I am a combat veteran, gun owner and competitive shooter. Closing the gun show loophole, and doing more thorough background checks is not zealotry, it’s common sense.”

      First, thank you for your service to our country.

      Second, “Closing the gun show loophole” means all person-to-person sales or gifts of firearms must go through a FFL (for a fee). Note: the Colorado shooter bought his weapons from gun stores.

      Third, “doing more thorough background checks” means much more government intrusion as everyone will need to be personally checked by a government head-shrink to make sure you are “safe” (with a much higher fee). Also note: some head-shrinks really believe that if you even want a gun, then you must be crazy (and therefore should be denied a gun).

      DavidL. The ultimate goal of gun control is the complete and total ban of civilian owned weapons. Please stop helping them.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        I wouldn’t thank him for his millitary service. He would be the one doing everything possible to hinder our own men.

      • Charles Moore

        He bought the body armor on the Internet. The news stated that it was from a company that supplies Police and the Military. I don’t know if this means that they are “Only” supposed to supply Military and the Police or they sell to anybody and primarily to the Military and Police.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore writes:
        “I don’t know if this means that they are “Only” supposed to supply Military and the Police or they sell to anybody and primarily to the Military and Police.”

        Of course they sell to anybody. It’s a free country. Oh wait. This is early 21st century. My bad.

        ————————————
        For a TRULY free people the possession of ANYTHING created, grown, obtained without fraud or theft, can not be illegal.
        ———————————–

    • CZ52

      DavidL closing the non existqant gun show loophole does NOT apply here. All of the shooters firearms were purchased at properly licsened gun dealers who followed the proper proceedures when selling him the guns. Also as the Mayor of Aurora said there is evidence he had been planning this for 6 months or more so he had plenty of time to aquire firearms either legaly or illegaly.

      • Vicki

        One wonders if BATF told the dealers to go ahead with the sale.

    • vicki

      DavidL writes:
      “Guns are pulled by all and shots fired. WHO IS THE GUN MAN?”

      Why the guy who fired first. Gee that was too easy. See the law abiding know that there is no reason to fire till they know who the shooter is. They might not even draw their firearms for just a tear gas canister thrown into the room.

      Let’s have a little more fun with your “man of straw”. When the shooting starts the people lying down and the people running toward the doors are NOT going to be the shooter. Witnesses described how they saw the shooter because of the muzzle flashes. He was the one wearing a gas mask. CLUE. If they could see the shooter thru the teargas then one or more of the ccw holders could and would too.

      “What should we say to make sense of this tragedy and to comfort the families of these dead? Should we say things like “They died protecting the second amendment”? “They were brave and caring people.”

      Or just the obvious. They died protecting their loved ones and community from the mad dog in human skin.

      Oh and the real point is that they would have had a CHANCE to defend themselves rather then being shot in the back as they ran away.

    • Isaac Davis

      There is no “gun show loophole”. If you are who you say you are, a gun-rights supporter, then you’d know the truth. Do you think that the 30,000 people killed in automobile accidents every year warrants even MORE regulation that what is already in place for drivers? How DO you regulate common sense and mental stability? How do you tell people to have respect for both themselves and for everyone else, and hold them accountable? You cannot legislate human behavior, but apparently you seem to believe that laws are adhered to 100% of the time…if they could just get the wording exactly right…there, that fixed it. Do you know the true meaning of UNALIENABLE? Where do those “Shall Not Be Infringed” Rights extend from? When has a “gun-free” zone ever stopped an idiot intent on using a firearm to commit insane mayhem?

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Many many years ago, my father explained to me that gun registration was a very bad thing. Believe me when I say that my father never imagined that our own government would try to take weapons from its citizens. But he explained to me that with gun registration, the first place that an invading enemy would go was to where the gun registration records were kept. Then they would know exactly where to go, to get the guns which would make us helpless. He recognized from the very beginning of gun registration that it was a very dangerous thing. Now we are faced with a threat that my father could never have imagined. And that threat comes from our own government and the new world order that they have in mind for us! I believe that gun registration was part of the grand scheme from the beginning. They’re just waiting until everything else is in place. There is nothing that we can do to stop crazy people from random killings. There is nothing we can do to stop drug gangs and criminal organizations from getting and using guns. All gun control will do is stop law abiding citizens from having guns to protect themselves. I can’t see how that is a good thing! All it does is allow the criminal element (including the government) to control and slaughter innocent people!

      • Bimbam

        Registration is both good and bad, but mostly bad.

        Let me explain. If the enemy came and we had no registration they would just suspect every American had a weapon. That’s bad.

        But if they looked up the registration base they would then know what house needs to be “attacked” or the owner hunted down. Meanwhile you will be spared from this if you did not register.

        What’s the solution then? Kick liberals out of all positions of authority and remove gun registration. It’s not in the Constitution and should be removed immediately.

        Require everyone to own a gun and train them how to use it. It’s actually in the Constitution to do that, except for the training part.

        What happens if you don’t want a gun? You take the gun but we just don’t give the ammo, kay?

      • Vicki

        Bimbam says:
        “Registration is both good and bad, but mostly bad.

        Let me explain. If the enemy came and we had no registration they would just suspect every American had a weapon. That’s bad.”

        No. Thats Good. The enemy will be demoralized by the realization that they face an army 300 MILLION strong. “…Behind every blade of grass….”

      • Bimbam

        No, you do not understand what I’m saying. The enemy will simply RAZE everything when they realize “behind every blade of grass”. SCORCHED EARTH POLICY!!!

        How do you mow a lawn???? Do you pick at it one grass at a time???

        You really do not understand WARFARE lady!!!!!

        • Charles Moore

          Huh? Define the Enemy. I remember a more important statement. “When they came for the Catholics, I didn’t care as I wasn’t a Catholic”.” When they came for the Jewish people I didn’t care because I wasn’t Jewish” ” When they came for me it was too late”. Congress enacts Legislation . For the last twenty years the people have been returning 90% of the Incumbents to Congress. The people return 90% and then give them a 13% favorable rating” The Executive office is supposed to enforce the Legislation passed by Congress. This POTUS has trampled on the U.S. Constitution and has ignored Congress and has done things on his own. The U.S. Senate has to ratify this U.N Global Arms treaty. So far the news is that at least 57 Senators are against it so if this remains then it won’t be ratified. It is only an initial draft right now and there is some thought that if certain points such as “small arms” or taken out regarding the U.S. that it might have a better chance of being ratified. Who knows?

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore writes:
        “The people return 90% and then give them a 13% favorable rating” ”

        Makes you wonder ‘what were they thinking’. Or what was the polling accuracy. Or how many dead people voted since they don’t (usually) respond to polls :)

      • Vicki

        Bimbam says:
        “No, you do not understand what I’m saying. The enemy will simply RAZE everything when they realize “behind every blade of grass”. SCORCHED EARTH POLICY!!!

        How do you mow a lawn???? Do you pick at it one grass at a time???

        You really do not understand WARFARE lady!!!!!”

        Typically enemys do not have enough power to scorch the earth as you suggest. Also they rarely want just the mineral resources.

        Perhaps you may find enlightenment in this book:
        http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-War-Sun-Tzu/dp/0195014766

        And there is of course the United States Army Field Manual of Military Operations (FM-3-0, sections 4-32 to 4-39) are[14]:
        ——————————————————————
        Objective (Direct every military operation towards a clearly defined, decisive, and attainable objective)
        Offensive (Seize, retain, and exploit the initiative)
        Mass (Concentrate combat power at the decisive place and time)
        Economy of Force (Allocate minimum essential combat power to secondary efforts)
        Maneuver (Place the enemy in a disadvantageous position through the flexible application of combat power)
        Unity of Command (For every objective, ensure unity of effort under one responsible commander)
        Security (Never permit the enemy to acquire an unexpected advantage)
        Surprise (Strike the enemy at a time, at a place, or in a manner for which he is unprepared)
        Simplicity (Prepare clear, uncomplicated plans and clear, concise orders to ensure thorough understanding)
        —————————————————————-

        So many interesting variables. Probably why my parents insisted I learn to play chess.

    • Flashy

      DaveidL…you can make sense and state the obvious, but the testosterone challenged folks who want to pack a gun where ever they feel like and place us in danger because “they have a right’…regardless of OUR Rights… they won’t listen nor consider the simplest concepts of common sense.

      ya see…it’s their “right” and ours don’t matter…

      • BullZi

        What “rights” of yours are being violated? The only one here without one thread of common sense is you flashy! No one would ever entertain any of your thoughts because you are a moron without one shred of intellect!

      • Vicki

        “folks who want to pack a gun where ever they feel like and place us in danger because “they have a right’…regardless of OUR Rights… they won’t listen nor consider the simplest concepts of common sense.

        ya see…it’s their “right” and ours don’t matter…”

        Your right to feel safe is entirely in YOUR control. Be a man. Stop being afraid.

        Btw having flashy whine about his rights being ignored is rather hypocritical when you read in his posts all the rights we are supposed to give up to keep him happy.

        • Charles Moore

          I am a Military Veteran and have a CCW permit. As I stated in another post: Most people get their CCW permit after only a few hours of simple qualifications. I had to take a State qualified course that was about 10 times as long. Many then purchase a gun that is attractive to them and never take the time to purchase a weapon that is most compatible for them. Many do not ever shoot again, Many do not have common sense.

          Take this George Zimmerman in Florida.he wasn’t even on his neighborhood watch patrol gig. I think it is the same everyplace but In Florida a person with a CCW permit is not allowed to display it even in a threatening manner to discourage others unless your life or the life of somebody else is in imminent danger. None of those situations existed when Zimmerman spotted Martin and claimed he was acting suspicious. If it had been me and I thought somebody was acting suspicious then I would have called the Police and if I then stayed in the area I would have observed from a distance until that situation. If I had been walking down the Street and somebody started following me then I would have been apprehensive. The difference is that I have a gun and a CCW permit. I can pretty much guaranty you that if Zimmerman didn’t have a gun that he wouldn’t have got out of the car and followed Martin. Zimmerman showed no common sense when he took the watch patrols. decided to take a gun with him or follow Martin. Unfortunately there is no Law against Stupidity and lack of common sense.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore claims that Zimmerman acted irresponsibly the claims
        ” If it had been me and I thought somebody was acting suspicious then I would have called the Police and if I then stayed in the area I would have observed from a distance until that situation.”

        Since from available reports Zimmerman acted as you claim you would are we to infer that you would act irresponsibly? If so then please surrender your permit and your gun to the authorities right now cause in the future (prior restraint) you MIGHT act irresponsibly.

      • phideaux

        “I am a Military Veteran and have a CCW permit. As I stated in another post: Most people get their CCW permit after only a few hours of simple qualifications. I had to take a State qualified course that was about 10 times as long.”

        I say you are a lier charles Moore. Judging from the majority of your comments you are about 1% less anti-gun than Flashy.

  • won5vin

    the price of freedom is eternal vigilance and this includes voting for people who believe the Constitution is the supreme law of the USA.

  • Howard Roark

    Never forget that the second amendment has nothing to do with having fire arms for hunting or self defense. the whole purpose is for calling forth the militia. Congress in the Militia act of1792 defined the militia as every able bodied man between the ages of 18 and 45. and at the time of being called each man would provide his own fire arm.

    There are only two purposes that the malitia would be used. James Madison defines the first in one of his Federalist Papers where he states that the militia can be used to assist a legitimate Government to help repell invaders. Alexander Hamilton in one of his Federalist Papers discusses the second use of the militia. That use is to overthrow a tyrannical government as the opening of the Declaration of Independence says that we have the right and obligation to do.

    • Jonathan

      There’s a third reason for the militia that isn’t used anymore: to serve in a law enforcement capacity. Many deadly force laws allow for use of deadly force in the prevention of a violent felony. For centuries, the local marshal/sheriff could call up and deputize citizens to bring outlaws to justice. Now, we pay people who have “specialized training” to protect us for insurance purposes, and as has been discussed elsewhere on this website, they do a bang up job of violating the rights of the citizenry.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      The second Ammendment provided for a well regulated militia but it also provided for THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms! “The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed”! If someone is telling you that the second ammendment only provides for a militia, they are lying to you! READ IT!!!

      • HH

        Amen Nancy n Neb…. AMEN!!!

      • Vicki

        I love to torment liberals with facts. Let us amuse ourselves by taking the “only for the militia” argument of the liberals and seeing what happens.

        ———————————–
        US CODE 10 USC § 311 – Militia: composition and classes:
        The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
        ———————————-

        Gee. Liberals. That would be a REALLY BIG portion of the law abiding population. Let’s start by no longer infringing on just that group.

        I bet that is not what you had in mind when you wanted to disarm us.

      • phideaux

        Vicki, with the passage of the equal rights laws women and those over 45 would now be included.

      • Vicki

        phideaux says:
        “Vicki, with the passage of the equal rights laws women and those over 45 would now be included.”

        I know. But baby steps for the liberal. Get them used to reading the US Code before making them handle the addendum.

    • Rob

      The Bill of Rights was ratified three years before the Militia Act of 1792. March 4, 1789. It’s the right of the people, along with the right to assemble, unless that is just for the militia as well.

      • Charles Moore

        If the Bill of Rights grants the use of firearms then it doesn’t have to specify the legal use of firearms. At the time of the Bill of Rights people hunted to get food to put on the tabel for their families.

      • CZ52

        “At the time of the Bill of Rights people hunted to get food to put on the tabel for their families.’

        And many people still hunt to put food on the table for their families.

    • Flashy

      Howard…in my opinion, the 2nd is to prevent a populace from being at the mercy of the State…my belief is because the british used armed presence to such a degree the rebels saw what arming the populace would do preventing abuse of power.

      That being said…the one problem with the 2nd is the lunatic fringe who want to expand it to include “for any reason’, denying the majority the right to security and a safe society. For some reason, they insist it is their Right to place everyone in danger.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Having a gun in your possession puts no one in danger!!! Gun registration prevents no killing. Anyone who wants a gun can get one either through theft or black market. Under the guise of protecting you, the government is taking away your rights. You may not care, BUT I DO!!!

      • Vicki

        Above I commented about when flashy makes reasonable sounding but insane points.
        This is one of them

        Flashy writes
        “That being said…the one problem with the 2nd is the lunatic fringe who want to expand it to include “for any reason’, denying the majority the right to security and a safe society. For some reason, they insist it is their Right to place everyone in danger.”

        As pointed out IN the very amendment you reference it is necessary for the security of a free state that there be a well trained militia. There is no lunatic fringe trying to expand the right of a FREE people to keep and bear arms. It is the PEOPLE who will form the militia. It is in fact the people who ARE the militia. It is even the law (10 USC – 311) The right is fully expanded already. It is to keep the state of freedom by being able to resist with force those who would use force to oppress.

        By denying the right of the majority to keep and bear arms YOU deny them the right to security and a safe society. The shooting in Colorado and every other successful mass shooting is the evidence.

        The astute reader will notice that we are talking about ACTUALLY being secure and not flashy’s “feeling secure”

      • Flashy

        Vicki and nancy..please re-rad what i wrote. I have no issue with the 2nd. It states quite clearly the Right to Bear Arms. What i did say was there is a lunatic fringe who thinks it pertains to being able to pack iron everywhere, without training, and without regard to the rights of others. See anywhere in the 2nd where it states you can pack a gun in a bar? in a school? In a public place? nope. And that was what i stated.

        Go ahead and have guns. hand guns, rifles, long guns, short guns, big guns little guns…i don’t care. Put one on every table and desk in your house. go in the back yard and play target practice with your tonsils…i don’t care.

        But the moment someone takes one off the premises of their property…it begins to intrude on my rights, safety and well being. And i in no way believe someone packing iron in public is a good thing. And for someone to have a firearm and not have a clue as to it’s operations, it’s parts, be trained in the use of the firearm, and show they have ‘situational awareness”, is sheer and utter lunacy.

        If someone wants to carry a weapon off premises, and applies for a concealed weapons permit…unless they require it for work or for clear and demonstrated temporary need for immediate safety…such should be given only with the strictest adherence to gun safety, training, appropriate bond, and name and address published in a local paper so everyone knows and if there is reason to object.

        To purchase a firearm? If from a licensed gun dealer, background checks, registration , a tax on the transaction to cover the costs, and proof of insurance.

        If a private transaction? The Seller must report the sale within 48 hours of the sale, including name and address who he/she sold it to, the price, and the type of weapon.

        Look at it this way. Gun nuts say they want to protect themselves against criminals. i want to protect myself against testosterone challenged gun owners packin’ in public.

      • Vicki

        Flashys insane response.
        “But the moment someone takes one off the premises of their property…it begins to intrude on my rights, safety and well being.”

        Do you think there is some magical barrier between the private property and the public property? If you REALLY felt you were unsafe then you would at least be consistent and demand that no one have firearms.

        You claim to support the 2nd amendment but then ignore the part about “…shall NOT be infringed”. Hoping Clinton will help you with the definition of “is”?

      • Vicki

        Nancy in Nebraska says:
        “Having a gun in your possession puts no one in danger!!!”

        Well. Actually…
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3kUD6W8QaQ

    • CZ52

      “Never forget that the second amendment has nothing to do with having fire arms for hunting or self defense. the whole purpose is for calling forth the militia.”

      Howard Roark, it is nieve at best to think the authors of the second amendment did not intend to include all then legal uses of a firearm in the Second Amendment. While it is true the primary intent was to provide for the militia’s arming they were well aware of the number of people who needed firearms to provide meat for their famioly. They were well aware of the need for the populace to be armen to protect themselves from criminals. They were well aware of the frequence of competitions with firearms for fun as well as training etc. etc. etc.. Since they were aware of all these legal uses for a firearm they would have intended them to be included in the Second Amendment as secondary reasons for owning firearms.

  • http://www.facebook.com/barry.daughenbaugh Barry Daughenbaugh

    Lets see a person uses a gun to cause mayhem death etc so we should bann all guns, so by that logic a person uses a car to cause mayhem death etc , so we should ban all cars? or someone uses a knife to cause mayhem death etc so we should ban all guns, or someone uses a baseball bat etc etc, sure doesnt sound like banning the instruments used does anything to stop the problem of people causing mayhem death etc.
    I am absolutely positive that if even one person in that theater had been carrying a gun on their person, as is the right of every American citizen, then a lot less people would have been killed and injured.

    • Howard Roark

      Absolutely correct. just like prohabition when people placed a moral judgement on an inanamite object. neither alcohol or guns are any more evil or good than a kitcken chair.

    • Howard Roark

      I recently called a talk radio show and told the host that I own a model 1911 45 automatic and that I was going to complain to the Colt Firearms Co. that it is defective. The host why is that and I replied that I am constantly being told that guns kill but I have owned mine for years and it just sets in its storage place and it has never killed any one. ergo it must be defective.

      • Sanders

        I recently saw a picture of 2 people holding signs at a street corner. One of the signs said something to the effect of, “Gun manufacturers are complicits in crime”. The other sign, carried by another individual, was just as accurate and it said, “Spoons made me fat”.

    • Flashy

      Who says anything about banning guns? Lunatics on the board today stretching far flung fairy tales to create fear from ignorance, hate and anger

      Senseless violence by someone having unfettered and liberal access to guns is not a good idea. Unfettered access to firearms by anyone is never a good idea. Lunatics having free access…yeah, as a good idea that ranks right up there with giving a six year old a loaded pistol and then sending them out to play with the local kids.

      • Opal the Gem

        And here we have another inane trite post from Flushy the proven lier. A post full of unproven unsupported claims he has no intention of ever supporting.

      • Flashy

        Opal…ya hear anything from anyone stating banning guns? Only from the lunatic pro gun fringe who make stuff up so they can demand more donations to fight the fiction.

        But think about it…when hunting, you ever hear someone called or referred to as a “city hunter” or perhaps “buck fever”? Think about it…you feel safe with those yahoos eh?

      • E. Blake

        Here is your gun ban nut jobs, this went out the day of the shooting, notice whoi is putting it out???
        Dear MoveOn member,
        We all woke up to the tragic news of the killing of at least 12 people and the wounding of many more at a late-night screening of the new Batman movie in Colorado.

        Reports indicate that the disturbed individual who committed this horrifying act had a bulletproof vest, used some kind of gas canister, and had multiple guns when he opened fire in the crowded theater.1 A three-month-old is among the injured.2

        We are immeasurably sad for those who lost their lives, those wounded, and their families—and for all those who experienced the horror of those terrible moments. Let our thoughts and prayers go out to them today.

        We’re also so angry. From children’s lives lost in school shootings, to Trayvon Martin, the Representative Gabrielle Giffords attack, and this latest slaughter of innocents, we are not safe from gun violence.

        Mayors Against Illegal Guns has been campaigning to put a stop to senseless gun violence like this with commonsense measures, like fixing gun checks to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. They’ve started a petition in SignOn.org to demand action on ending gun violence.

        Sadly, it often takes moments like these to bring politicians to their senses about guns. And while signing a petition seems so inadequate in the face of what happened last night, it’s important to do what we can. Today that means taking a small step toward preventing this kind of tragedy from happening again.

        Sign the Mayors Against Illegal Guns petition to our leaders: “Join me in standing with the victims and families of the Aurora, Colorado shooting and pledge to end gun violence.”

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        “Who says anything about banning guns? Lunatics on the board today stretching far flung fairy tales to create fear from ignorance, hate and anger”

        ————————————————————
        In a pre-taped interview with Bob Schieffer for CBS’s Face the Nation, Bloomberg argued the restrictions in place for gun control need to be more strictly enforced.

        “My thoughts are these — pure and simple — weapons of war don’t belong on the streets. This is a powerful weapon. He had a hundred round drum,” – Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said on “Fox News Sunday.”

        Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., whose husband was killed in a 1993 shooting spree and is a proponent of the assault weapons ban, said there is one element that is consistent in mass murders at Virginia Tech, Columbine and Fort Hood. “They had a gun with large magazines,” she said.

        Rep. Ed Perlmutter, a Democrat who represents the Aurora, Colo., district where the shooting took place, said he will work with McCarthy to bring debate into Congress.
        “[S]hould we reinstate the assault weapons ban? I think we should, and I think that’s where it starts,” Perlmutter said on “Face the Nation.”

        Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence released this statement: “This tragedy is another grim reminder that guns are the enablers of mass killers and that our nation pays an unacceptable price for our failure to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people.”

        When Candy Crowley asked about what he thinks should be done with gun control laws, Colorado Governer Hickenlooper was hesitant to commit to backing reform. “Certainly we can – I’m sure we will try – to create some checks and balances on these things.

        John McCain wants more proof gun control is the answer before he’ll support any new sort of regulations.
        ———————————————
        So many examples to disprove Flashy. So little space

        Flashy writes:
        “Senseless violence by someone having unfettered and liberal access to guns is not a good idea. Unfettered access to firearms by anyone is never a good idea.”

        Senseless violence by someone having unfettered and liberal access to BASEBALL BATS is not a good idea. Unfettered access to BASEBALL BATS by anyone is never a good idea.

        Senseless violence by someone having unfettered and liberal access to KNIVES is not a good idea. Unfettered access to KNIVES by anyone is never a good idea.

        Senseless violence by someone having unfettered and liberal access to HAMMERS is not a good idea. Unfettered access to HAMMERS by anyone is never a good idea.

        Senseless violence by someone having unfettered and liberal access to HAT PINS is not a good idea. Unfettered access to HAT PINS by anyone is never a good idea.

        Unfettered access to Ammonia and bleach by anyone is never a good idea.

        Unfettered access to Propane by anyone is never a good idea.

        Unfettered access to Gasoline by anyone is never a good idea.

        Unfettered access to Hydrogen Peroxide by anyone is never a good idea.

        Unfettered access to Flour by anyone is never a good idea.

        Unfettered access to Sugar (just ask Mayor Blumeburg:) ) by anyone is never a good idea.

        So many examples to show the lack of thought in remarks by Flashy. So little space

        • Charles Moore

          Having been in the Military I mentioned this when the Fort Hood massacres were News. It happened because of Political Correctness, The results of an Investigation were released a few days ago. The FBI did not go after this Major because they didn’t want to hurt his career in spite of all the complaints etc. As for bringing guns on the base one is not allowed to do it. There are signs before the entrance to Military bases that ” Guns are not authorized:. I have a CCW permit and I am not allowed to take my weapon on base on my State. If I live or am stationed on base and have a weapon then they will store in in the Armory for me.

      • Vicki

        E. Blake tells us of the insanity of Moveon.org by writing
        “Mayors Against Illegal Guns has been campaigning to put a stop to senseless gun violence like this with commonsense measures”

        Since the guns were legal to own and legal for the shooter to own (right up till he fired his first shot in the theater) what exactly do they have in mind for “commonsense”?

        We have a pretty good idea. It is another disprove of Flashys claims.

      • Vicki

        I found another example to disprove flashys statement. This one is so typically liberal that I wanted to bring it here.

        Flashy says:
        “Who says anything about banning guns? Lunatics on the board today stretching far flung fairy tales to create fear from ignorance, hate and anger”

        Why none other than the esteemed film critic Roger Ebert. But wait till you hear his logic for more gun control.
        “http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/07/20/nyt-quickly-gets-film-critic-roger-ebert-write-op-ed-gun-restrictions”

        ———————-
        “In theory, the citizenry needs to defend itself. Not a single person at the Aurora, Colo., theater shot back, but the theory will still be defended…This would be an excellent time for our political parties to join together in calling for restrictions on the sale and possession of deadly weapons.
        ———————-

        Apparently Mr Ebert is no better than any other liberal MSM host (or liberals who post here either) when it comes to simple research. OF COURSE no one shot back. They respected the wishes of the management of the theater.

  • jopa

    Someone always has to say, oh if there only were someone else armed during this shooting it wouldn’t have been that bad.During the Palin massacre in Arizona such an event took place and the person that disarmed the assailant was almost shot by one of these vigilante do gooders.

    • angelwannabe

      Hence you say was “Almost” shot…So I guess you mean that disarming ALL OF US would stop this right, think Mexico, UK????…your a real card!

    • Nadzieja Batki

      You would be one of the ones to come up with something this stupid.

    • CZ52

      “…and the person that disarmed the assailant was almost shot by one of these vigilante do gooders.”

      An outright lie. The person who was armed considered drawing his pistol but as he assessed the situation he saw it was better to not do so for two reasons. The first was those next to Laughner had gotten at least partial control of him and his weapon and second he saw the possibility of injuring innocent bystanders was to great so he DID NOT DRAW his pistol.

      • Flashy

        Let me guess…you believe this because the guy said that’s why…after, of course, he had time to think it through so he’d look like a hero…

      • CZ52

        Prove me wrong Flashy.

    • Vicki

      Jopa says
      “almost shot by one of these vigilante do gooders”

      Pretty sure that 12 dead people would be happy to trade almost shot to really shot dead.
      Now as to your foolish effort to claim vigilante, you should probably look up the definition.
      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vigilante

      The defender of community you attempt to libel with your claim was not planning on shooting Loughner some time in the future should the wheels of justice move too slowly for his liking. He was planning to shoot Loughner right then to stop Loughner from killing any more people.

      He didn’t even draw his weapon as he was able to confirm that it was not necessary as people in the crowd were already neutralizing the threat represented by Loughner.

    • TexSizzle

      What was “the Palin massacre in Arizona”? Are you referring to the Giffords shooting by a left-wing looney?

      • Vicki

        Nah. Jopa was probably just confusing a fantasy filled liberal dream with reality again.

  • TIME

    People, open your eyes, there is a hell of a lot more going on here, lets review just a few points.

    #1, How did this alledged person get in dressed the way he was and with two LONG GUNS with out help from someone?

    #2, Why was there no call’s to 911 by ANYONE if he was seen going in to the thearter?
    I would have to question how he just appered out of no where with not a single person seeing him = thats just not possible. Where are all the CELL- Phone Pictures? How can an event like this unfold with not a single picture taken?

    #3, Where is the new Headquarters CIA Located?

    #4, Where is the New NSA Headquarters Located?

    #5, What Military unit is based close by? Just what is it they do again?

    Just these question alone should make you ask WTF is really going on.
    Be all that as it may – why is it that many of the alledged person interviewed by the Mass media have also been involved with the following events.
    #1, The Giffords alledged event.
    #2, The alledged shooting at VA Tec.

    Again just how odd is it that the same people are again Wittness to an event that seems all to staged?

    I strongly believe that what is going on is far more sinister than most of you can get your heads around. No; its not a Conspiracy – its just the last point of light in the “Power shift” and you’re watching it all unfold before your very eyes.
    Keep in mind the State Dept Instrument dtated; 9 – 1961 and the “UN Small Arms Treaty,” or SAT also called ATT of what are carbon copys of one another.

    People “OPEN YOUR EYES” do it quickly.

    Need I tell you what the PA is really about, or will you all start educating your self about it?
    How about the NDAA? Or the last EO signed by Barry OMEN where the US Inc can shut down all Communication when they deem it need be done.

    We don’t have long now and this picture will be very clear as to whats really going on.
    BUT – when that happens, { this TIME its going to be way to late!}

    Your call, what will you do?

    Peace and Love

    • angelwannabe

      Someone had to be planted inside to let him in, TIME, there is way more to this than meets the eye and waaaaay to co-incidentally near the the UN arms treaty deal,

      • Flashy

        Angel…you can always be counted on for a laugh at absurdity. Today, you outdid your usual self…

      • angelwannabe

        Ditto Fat AZZ Ditto!

      • Opal the Gem

        And you Flushy can always be counted on for usless remarks that contribute nothing to the conversation.

      • TIME

        Dear Flash,

        So why do you fear Angel so much that you insult her all the time?
        Why is she not allowed to have an OPINION; in your minds eye?

        Perhaps if you were to open your box now and then, an let in some
        “SON Shine” and Fresh air it would be good for you.
        {{I did spell SON the way I wanted it,}} its not a Type O.

        Afterall when you build such a tight small box there’s little to no room for mental growth. But then again – really – you should know that.
        But – perhaps I am wrong.
        Perhaps you have no room anylonger for growth – perhaps you have expended your potential.
        I don’t know, after all most folks can’t see a tree from the forest, so that begs the question – are you really one of them?

        Peace and Love

      • TIME

        Dear Angel,

        Have you seen the CFR’s responce to the UN, SAT or ATT posted Friday July 20 -2012?
        How odd is it that the CFR is so closely alligned with the United States State Dept, and just who’s running it now again?
        Hillery Clinton.. .. ..

        Look for the Youtube feed where Hillery tells the Mass media how happy she is that the CFR has moved a branch to the “City State” of the District of Columbia so she will not have to travel to New Your to get her orders as to what to do.

        Its really quite telling as to who really runs the nation.

        Peace and Love

      • angelwannabe

        TIME, No I didn’t, what the response was__ I’ve been watching as much as I can, which here of late isn’t much___as Mid May my Husbands Sister and they’re Mother were in a serious car accident, my Mother in-law didn’t make it at 92. Hi Sister is recuperating from a fully reconstructed right foot here with us__anyway time__there is AGAIN waaaay too much co-incidence time, it’ll be interesting to see what unfolds, Take Care :)

      • Flashy

        Dear time: Methinks you have it reversed as to whom, is polite, and who is not.

        Thank you.

      • angelwannabe

        Flushed, You come on here delibertly to toot your Liberal flute on a conservative site, stir up the sheep and then have the nerve to b*tch, wether or not someone being polite??

        Buddy Boy your one sandwich shy of a picnic!!!

        and just for the record TIME, IS RIGHT, THE SON WOULD DO YOU GOOD!

      • jopa

        Angel I believe the guy that was planted inside to let him in was the same guy on the grassy knoll in Dallas.Or maybe the door stayed open when the shooter left to get his arsenal as stated in the police report.So many maybes.

        • Charles Moore

          He entered the theater from the front. He then exited through the Emergency door and kept it from closing. he went to his car which was parked near it and suited up and armed himself and then re-entered the theater.

      • CZ52

        ” He then exited through the Emergency door and kept it from closing.”

        So far I have seen no explanation as to why the alarm did not sound when he alledgely exited the door. You know there is some way for the theater staff to be alerted when the door is opened otherwise there would be more people watching for free than paid for tickets.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Supposedly, he entered the theatre in normal dress. Then he exited a door in the rear of the theatre, propped it open and put on his body armor etc… I would like to know; if he went out the rear exit, an alarm would have gone off. Why did no one respond to the alarm. You can bet those doors have alarms or people would be sneaking in their friends. Too many unanswered questions! Especially, where did he get $20,000 to buy all the gear?

      • Vicki

        “Why did no one respond to the alarm. You can bet those doors have alarms”

        Alarms can have “accidents”.

      • Flashy

        OK..let me get this straight. you say you have enough intelligence to pack a ghun in public. Yet…you haven’;t a clue how to defeat the alarm to an emergency exit.

        How about a simple concept…it’s all in the flow of the electricity. Tape the door jamb and switch , and voila! Prop it open and you are in like flint. (Never snuck into many concerts when you were younger eh?)

    • Sanders

      I smell another Obama/Holder conspiracy to help prop up the need for the UN Small Arms Treaty. Without drastic measures, this will never garner the 67 votes needed in the senate.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Exactly!!!

  • Howard Roark

    An earlier post said that international treaty can outlaw firearms. Actually this is not true.SOTUS ruled in Reid vs. Covert that when a treaty is in conflict with the Constitution the Constitution always takes priority. The only LEGAL way to change the Constitution is with the amendment.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      So let us hammer this point to everyone so that it is remembered.
      There are lots of lazy people that do not want to make the effort to be free themselves, they expect that someone else is obligated to keep them free.

      • Vicki

        I’ve been trying to hammer the point that our forefathers are not as dumb as liberals. They would NEVER put in such a simple method to get around the 3/4 of states vote to change /repeal amendments. Especially one as important as the 2nd.

    • Charles Moore

      This is not true. It is a back door to gun control. The U.S. would be part of a Global treaty in which firearms would have to be registered and monitored. Also ammunition. None would be confiscated at this point because you are correct in that SCOTUS has upheld Second Amendment rights. All that is needed for U.S. ratification is a vote of the U.S. Senate and then it becomes part of the U.N. Constitution. This is just like the situation with Obama Care which is now a tax. Everybody will have to file a tax form every year and provide proof of Insurance regardless of Income. It comes under the right of Congress to tax. The IRS will be able to withhold your refund, attach your wages, freeze your bank Account.put a Lien on your property. assess penalties and interest on any unpaid or send you to Prison just as they can for any other unpaid tax in the case of Obama Care. This Administration is subordinating these rights to the U.N while not yet restricting the use of firearms.

      • TIME

        Dear Charles,

        To a point you would be correct as in yes; its a backdoor move.
        But only if we were still party to the “ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION”
        But again as I have said now countless times – we are not,
        nor have we been for over 150 years.

        Oddly what you posted is a nearly a carbon copy of what the CFR is posting on the issue of the UN SAT or UN ATT as of 7/20/2012.

        And what the CFR has posted is 100% inaccurate / or perhaps better said is Dis – Information.

        Charles, please do keep digging and find the TRUTH, its all out
        there hidden in “plain sight.”

        Peace and Love

  • http://none Joe Justice

    In response to the tragic events in Auora, ABC news reported that in the past few years the USA has 20 times such murders as the next 15 developed nations combined. We have a problem! The many comments offger no real solutions. Many want limited or no restrictions on gun carry. If just a small percentage of the movie goers had weapons in the darkened theater and innocent people started shooting it could have been a much greater loss of life! Unfortunately collectively we do not have an answer to our delimma in a world that has developed mass killing weapons that can hold more than 30 rounds in a clip. With the power and $$$ of the NRA we are likely NOT to have a sane solution any time. Perhaps we should direct our attention to that part of the 2nd.Amendment which speaks of a “well regulated malita”…

    • angelwannabe

      Joe Justice,…..hmm lets see, crime rates risen, Joblessness = hungry+ unable to pay bills, ya think?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Those things in themselves will not make people do evil things.

      • angelwannabe

        I’m not talking about “oridinary” citizens, most of us take life as it comes good or bad_ alot don’t….in our area there is now sound locks placed on Tide, yeah you heard me right, tide Laundary detergent, because stealing and selling it in the black market they are gettig twice the amount of that on the store shelves…another incidence is that stealing bronze vases at cemetaries is at and all time high!!…yes I beg t differ for some joblessess does contribute to the crime rate, shooting or not…

      • Sanders

        You obvioulsy have not been paying close attention to the news as of late. Crime rates, especially violent, have not risen. In fact, they are at an all time low now and I and many like minded thinkers believe that is because more and more people own guns so those who would otherwise commit the violent crimes against others have reason to pause and think, “Does this person own a gun?”

      • angelwannabe

        Sanders_ I pay plenty of attention to everything!

      • angelwannabe

        Sanders, why would I believe what ANY news says, the presidential polls are skewed to the left, opinion polls are a buuch of lies and our votes are in name only…

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Again I repeat my question, what is your beef with the NRA?
      In this case the NRA has the power of population numbers as well as people willing to contribute their time and money. Until a “better” group is formed we will have to work with what exists to counter the Leftists.

    • Charles Moore

      It would have made no difference if others in the theater had guns. The shooter was covered from head to toe in body armor that he purchased on the Internet that is only supposed to supply it to Military and the Police. The shooter was isolated as he had just come in the Emergency Door. If he did not have the head to toe body armor then he could have been taken out as he was apart from the people in the theater. This is similar to the same situation in Arizona. When the mother of the shooter in Colorado was interviewed in California she stated ” You have the right person”. This suggests that she was aware of aberrant behavior yet just as in Arizona where the college of the shooter wrote the shooter and his parents that he would not be allowed to return to school until cleared by a Mental Health Official. Yet “NOBODY” including the police who observed it did not follow up, If he would have been admitted for observation then he would have been entered in the Federal Data base and would not have legally been able to purchase a firearm. . Meanwhile I have a right to protect myself and my family. The Laws are there. They are not enforced and many do not want to become involved for whatever reason. . The strictest gun laws in the Country are in Chicago Illinois ans Washington D.C. which have the highest crime rate as a result of firearms.The criminals thrive there because it is the path of least resistance for them.

      • Sanders

        Excellent post Charles. Too bad most of the sheople just can’t seem to grasp this fact, or is it that facts like these are too inconvenient for the antis of the media to publish. I would wager on the latter.

      • Rob

        Once again’ll say that Kennesaw, GA has the lowest crime rate in the U.S. Every law-abiding homeowner is required to own a firearm. If they cannot afford one, local law enforcement will provide them with one. Hmmmmm.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “It would have made no difference if others in the theater had guns. The shooter was covered from head to toe in body armor that he purchased on the Internet that is only supposed to supply it to Military and the Police.”

        I see you are still posting the nonsense about body armor with a reference to it being bought over the internet. An obvious attempt to get people riled up about both body armor and internet.

        Body armor is NOT magic. If he had been shot it would have hurt. A LOT. It would distract and slow down his attack. He would have to focus on the potential threat. Being that he was a coward he might have run away. You can tell he was a coward cause he shot up a movie theater instead of a police station.

        You can tell that HE knew (unlike Charles) that body armor is not magic cause if he really thought that he was invincible in body armor he would not have chosen to meekly surrender to police.

        • Charles Moore

          Qualifying for a CCW permit is a Joke. Most people then go out and buy a gun that is “neat ” etc/. Most do not go to regular shooting practice. The Body armor made it even more difficult which was obviously the idea. I have no idea about the gun laws there but I will take the word of a person here who claims to be a resident that they are a joke and non existent. So the chance of anybody being in the theater to stop it is Nil and the chance that if there was such a person that it would be somebody qualified to make the shot under those conditions is almost Nil.

      • Vicki

        “So the chance of anybody being in the theater to stop it is Nil….”

        Of course it was nil. Law abiding people respect the wishes of property owners and don’t carry when asked not too. The smart ones just don’t go there. I notice the shooter was not law abiding and also ignored the wishes of the property owner and brought firearms into the theater anyway. So much for signs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0vyxgJLJVA

        Charles Moore: “…and the chance that if there was such a person that it would be somebody qualified to make the shot under those conditions is almost Nil.”

        I bet the 12+ dead would be willing to take a chance on the not quite shot over shot. Wouldn’t you? The 57 wounded probably would be happy with those odds too.

    • Isaac Davis

      Why are you still being spoon-fed the news from the propaganda outlets? ABC “nooze” will tell you whatever they want you to believe. Have you read “1984″? Have you read the itemized points of the “Naked Communist”?

    • Vicki

      Joe Justice says:
      “If just a small percentage of the movie goers had weapons in the darkened theater and innocent people started shooting it could have been a much greater loss of life! ”

      Or MUCH LESS. And those that died would have done so as MEN defending the People, Some actually did die as men by using their own bodies to save others. They could have been MUCH more effective with the best tools for defense. Firearms. That is why Police carry guns btw. To defend themselves.

  • WILDFIRE

    Let me ask some of you nimwitted liberals a question.

    When they banned prostitution, Did it stop prostitution?

    When they banned drugs, Did it stop the making, selling and use of and drug dealers?

    When they banned Alcohol, Did it stop people from making and selling and consuming Alcohol?

    Face it, when things are banned and become illegal, there will always be people that still partake in these things. By doing so they are breaking laws, they further break laws by carrying guns to protect them self from police or anyone that tries to stop them from doing the illegal action that they are partaking in.

    As long as people are intent on doing some illegal, they will carry guns illegally also.

    Do you liberals think that people that have criminal intents of selling drugs, robbery of private residences or businesses, car jackings, kidnappings, rape, This new “Knock out King” game that teens are playing and these more and more frequent occurrences of these “Flash Robberies” etc. etc. are going to be worried about breaking another law by carrying a gun?

    Banning guns is not going to stop guns from being in the hands of the criminally minded society or crazies. Like drugs and prostitution, guns will still exist on the black market, unregistered and likely stolen and the people in control of those guns will be the same people in control of the drug dealings and the people with the intent to rob steal and rape other members of society.

    Banning guns will only eliminate guns from being in the hands of law abiding citizens to protect them self from the criminal minded people.

    People who have the intent to harm others will do it one way or another. If they don’t have a gun, they will use a laundry list of other things that can be used for the same purpose such as knife, Molotov Cocktails, pipe bo mbs, acids, poisons and so on. Leaving the citzenry defenseless only empowers the criminal minded. Look at how powerful the drug dealers and drug cartels are? They are some of the richest people on the planet and no Government can stop them, Even though multiple governments work together, they still cannot eliminate illegal drug dealers or users. What makes you liberals think that the government banning guns are going to stop people from having guns?

  • hoser

    Got my CCP. I’ll be carrying alot more now! Within the rules mandated by my state.

  • sesame

    Everyone here seems to overlook that the guy in Aurora had all kinds of body armor plus an automatic weapon. Any good guy in the house would likely been mowed down by the time he had a chance to draw his concealed handgun.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      So no one should be able to defend themselves because they may be outmanned, outfaced, etc.. How cowardly are you planning to be to wait for someone else to protect you?

    • WILDFIRE

      Any “good guy” in the house that had any wits and knowledge of guns, would immediately identify by the sounds of the rapid fire that the assailant had an automatic weapon and was not taking aim, he was aimless firing into the direction of people. First thing a quick witted person would do is hit the ground and take cover while pulling the piece and listen to where the gun fire is hitting. Reports stated that gunfire was everywhere which means the shooter was spinning or sweeping giving plenty of time to take aim at the head / neck region while he was turned away.

      In a situation like this with someone in full body armor and automatic weapon would be suicide to try to stand toe to toe. Even though a person has body armor doesn’t mean he can’t be dropped. In this case, a low shot in hopes of stopping him wouldn’t do, go for the kill shot.

      This guy knew he had a very low percentage of return fire since guns were banned, but was armored just in case a security guard or police show up and returns fire. The fact that he was casually standing by his car waiting for police to come and get him indicates he felt no threat of citizens pursuing him outside the building.

      • http://www.sweetsalesgirl.com/Kuurus/ Charles Johnson

        AR 15 Semi Automatic rifle. pull trigger round fires pull again next round fires. NOT and AUTOmatic one trigger pull many rounds fire.

        • Charles Moore

          An AR15 can be converted to Automatic

    • Sanders

      Sesame, only a nimwit like you would stand in front of a crazed lunatic with a semi auto weapon and attempt to draw a weapon to return fire. A smart CCW carrier, such as myself, would stay behind one of the seats with only my head and hands holding my pistol above it, take careful aim and one shot later the shooting is over.

      • Charles Moore

        You are a smart CCW carrier??. he was covered head to toe in body armor. Unless you had armor piercing bullets in your weapon then it would have made no difference and would have made you a target

        • romeyers

          Everyone keeps harping on the fact that he had modern ballistic body armor as if this somehow made him an invulnerable superman, the fact is that modern armor is designed to stop penetration not impact. The impact of a high power round anywhere on that armor can knock you on your ass, break bones, and even stop your heart if it hits the right place on your chest. One person returning fire could have put a stop to this rampage and even made him run to escape being pounded on. Modern armor is made to save a life not create invulnerability.

      • phideaux

        His face and head was NOT covered with body armor. He had on a gas mask which is not bullet proof so a head shot would have solved the problem.

      • Vicki

        romeyers says:
        “Everyone keeps harping on the fact that he had modern ballistic body armor ”

        Not everyone. Just Charles and Sesame.

        I have pointed out to Charles (and soon to Sesame) that body armor is not magic. As you just said, it may stop penetration but will NOT stop impact. That impact hurts. A LOT.
        It will distract the shooter.

      • Vicki

        Charles writes:
        “Unless you had armor piercing bullets in your weapon then it would have made no difference and would have made you a target.”

        Good idea. I’m sure the police will thank you for the suggestion.

    • JJ Swiontek

      Yes, he had body armor. No, he didn’t have an automatic weapon. The first thing to do in an active shooter situation is to take cover or concealment. Then ready your weapon and aim from cover. Once you have a clear shot and no innocents are in danger, you shoot to stop the threat. In this case, you aim for the gas mask.

      I teach Colorado Conceal Carry.

      • Charles Moore

        Are you serious.? You teach CCW. ???The news stated he was covered from head to toe and had a “Ballistic Helmet”. Such a helmet must have slits for sight and breathing. . Even of you were a marks man and could hot those slits t would have made no difference as you would not know what portion of the gas mask covered these slits and upon firing you would become the target.

      • Isaac Davis

        I support your comments. For the “physics” impaired who refuse to do the math: Even the small .380 caliber delivers avg of 160 foot pounds at 50 yards. Those who keep touting the “body armor” completely miss the fact that the impact to the head/neck/shoulders is going to have a detrimental effect to the intent of this idiot to continue unabated. The effect of a force of even 150 pounds tapping into the cranium of this active shooter will render him, at least, momentarily dazed. If the defensive shooter has IDPA skills, there will be follow ups to tap the active shooter’s noggin until the threat is rendered inoperable. For those carrying .45 caliber the effects of energy are double on the active shooter, so even without penetration, no human is going to ignore that blunt force trauma. No matter what, there is still a lot going on in a few thousandths of a second to put the response together to be effective.

        • Charles Moore

          How do you know his weapon wasn’t an Automatic?It was an AR15. These weapons can be made automatic. It is not that difficult. This guy was a Phd Candidate in Neuro science. You don’t think that he could have converted it into an automatic weapon?Do you know how difficult it is to make a head shot even without somebody shooting up the place?How do you know if the body armor was even more re-enforced? They still aren’t sure what sort of liquids are in the bottles of his bobby trapped room. All of these Physics stuff sounds great on CSI etc. I have had a CCW permit for 10 years. I have a 9MM. When I purchased it I wanted a gun with stopping power and a light weight.My 9mm is made of Titanium Most people with CCW permits don’t carry a 45. I am more accurate with a 1911 Browning. The Gun also has to match the size of your hand to be effective. Many people get a permit and then just buy a gun that is attractive to them. I don’t know about Colorado but in my State you can go to an indoor gun range and rent just about any gun for $10 and then just buy the ammunition to shoot it and try it out. The CCW qualification is a joke in most places. I worked with an independent contractor for the City Sheriff here. I had to attend class 8 hours a day for five days. I had to take a written test on firearms , Felony and Misdemeanor Laws etc and then I had to qualify on a Range at different distances and different kinds of firing. Because the course was much more than the regular CCW course then all I had to do was pay the License fee. I have seen CCW courses of a few hours offered at State Fairs etc. There is no way that a person who gets their CCW permit in such a short time and then doesn’t practice shooting on a regular basis can make that sort of shot anyway.

      • http://www.sweetsalesgirl.com/Kuurus/ Charles Johnson

        I call Bull manure on Charles Moore he knows nothing about how to change an AR to Auto fire. It’s not simple for a none gunsmith.

        • E. Blake

          You may want to re-think that statement, Im no gunsmith and I can do it…

      • JeffH

        Charles Moore, you keep saying the shooter was covered in body armor from head to toe…that is just not true.

        Holmes wore a bulletproof vest, police said, and was carrying a rifle and two handguns.

        More accurately, Holmes wore what appeared to be a bulletproof vest and riot-type mask as he opened fire. The vest was purchase through TacticalGear.com and the company CEO admitted the shooter’s vest, identified as an “urban assault vest”, came from their mail order company. It’s made of “heavy-duty nylon” and has no Kevlar or other bullet-resistant materials. Granted, if you load it up with magazines you may derive some protection at the expense of your ammunition, but it’s not “body armor.”

        • Charles Moore

          First of all, there would have been more carnage except that a cheap magazine jammed. Anybody that shoots on a regular basis knows that such a magazine can cause a gun to jam and also some bullets even though they are of the right caliber can also do the same thing. According to the news the shooter was covered with leggings and a ballistic helmet and not just a vest. According to some sources he had all this and wore the same kind of helmet as the Police except he had a gas mask over it. According to some sources he bought the armor over the Internet from a company that supplies the Police and the Military. The sources were never explicit about whether they only were supposed to supply the Military and Police or this was their primary source. The CCW courses are a joke. Most people get the permit and then buy the gun because they like it and never again go to a shooting range etc, Even is one went to a range on a frequent basis there is a big difference shooting at a still target in a controlled environment and trying to take aim on somebody shooting up the place and lobbing grenades.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “Do you know how difficult it is to make a head shot even without somebody shooting up the place?”

        What range would you like? 7 yards? I can and have put multiple rounds thru the same hole in the center ring. 15 yards? All shots in the 10 and 9 rings. Using frontsight.com training I can expect to be only 1/2 as good when someone is “shooting up the place”. That is still the diameter of the human head. And I am not as good as some of the folk I have gone target shooting with.

        Charles Moore: “How do you know if the body armor was even more re-enforced? They still aren’t sure what sort of liquids are in the bottles of his bobby trapped room.”

        Why would we even care?

        Charles Moore: “All of these Physics stuff sounds great on CSI etc.”

        So lets test the physics stuff. You get in the body armor with ballistic helmet. Then take a shot to the helmet from a 9mm and see if it doesn’t “ring your bell” as they say.

        Charles Moore: “The Gun also has to match the size of your hand to be effective.”

        Are you sure you have studied? It is size AND shape. I have small hands but the space between my thumb and finger is unusually wide. I am far more accurate with a Glock then a 1911 for instance. I bet there are handles for the 1911 to help with that should I prefer a 1911,

        • Charles Moore

          Another clueless person trying to compare shooting at a range in a controlled environment at a still target with people shooting at you and lobbing grenades. How do you know the gun wasn’t automatic? Because an AR15 isn’t sold as an Automatic? It is very easy to convert to to an Automatic. The only reason there wasn’t more carnage is that he used a cheap magazine and it jammed. If you are such an expert then you would know that a magazine or using a certain kind of bullet even though it has the right caliber can jam certain types of guns. I would like to see your reactions if you were required to go through Marine Boot camp obstacle course where a Machine Gun with real bullets is shooting at a certain height you had to avoid it etc. Your childish comment about the ” Gun fitting the hand” further shows you are clueless . I gave several examples . Are you going to tell me that a a .357 is suitable for a person with small hands is suitable. How about a gun where after the hands grip the handle that they are short of the trigger guard etc. Amazing.

      • CZ52

        Charles Moore you are the clueless one. Both my daughters have small hands and both shoot unmodified full size double action 357 magnum piston just fine. They can also shoot 45 ACP semi-auto just fine. And, I whose hands are on the smaller size for a man can shoot a 44 Magnum accurately with no problem.

        • Charles Moore

          I used that as an example. Everybody can’t shoot the same exact gun with the same accuracy. I have a 9mm Taurus, I am a better marksman with my Fabreque Nationale D;Armes De Guerre Herstal -Belgique Browning that is seventy years old. I have shot modern guns that fit the hand but if you don;t hold your finger just right that the ejection if the sell will burn your hand. I have shot guns where even if you use the right caliber the brand of ammunition can cause the gun to jam. I have even had guns that came with two different clips and one of the clips would cause the gun to jam after a certain number of firings.Your comment is Pathetic.My post was that the chances of a qualified shooter being in the theater and taking out the shooter was almost nil and you want to make some claim which may or may not be true.

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    Of course we know the reaction of our city’s moronic mayor Michael Bloomturd, et al. All they can call for is stricter gun laws. As if they expect criminals to obey them!! Think about it, and compare it to Obama’s failed policies. $Trillions of dollars pi$$ed away, no positive results. So the democraps want to pi$$ away $trillions more. Likewise with gun control. There are already thousands of unconstitutional anti-gun laws on the books, all of which have failed to reduce crime. Instead of admitting they erred, the democraps and leftists just call for more useless laws, and they make excuses for the failure of the laws which they advocated with promises of reduced crime.

    What fools like Bloomturd never talk about is how much of the carnage could’ve been prevented, and how many lives could’ve been saved had there been at least a few other armed citizens who could’ve stopped the deranged killer immediately in Aurora Colorado. For those of you in Rio Linda, as well as all Obama voters, I’m asking what would’ve happened if this lunatic weren’t the only person in the theater with a gun?? Of course leftwing libs will always blame the NRA, law abiding gun owners and our 2nd Amendment for the acts of a few nutjobs. Yet they’ll never explain why some areas with the most lenient gun laws have such lower crime rates than places where the 2nd Amendment is ignored. Maybe Bloomturd should explain why about 25 years ago, Kennessaw GA reduced its crime rate by a much larger % than in New York City did during Bloomturd’s entire tenure – in a time period much shorter than Bloomturd’s tenure. Because Kennessaw law required most citizens to own guns. And Kennessaw proves that gun ownership works well, unlike the failed policies of statists like Bloomturd.

    • Vicki

      That’s cause Bloomberg and others believe that signs are magic wards that will prevent criminals from doing what criminals do. This video shows the world of the liberal, like Bloomberg. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8

      Well actually it is the world Bloomberg wants liberals to believe in. If he did he woudn’t have armed police in his city nor armed bodyguards.

  • Ron

    There seems to be something painfully obvious here. As so many gun control advocates wish for, this was an area that guns were restricted from. Yet, who disregarded it? (Hint: It wasn’t the law abiding citizens)

    • Charles Moore

      It would have made no difference in this case if other people in the theater had guns in this case, The shooter was covered from head to toe in body armor that had been sold to him by an Internet company who supplied the Military and the Police.

      • BullZi

        Ok put a ballistic vest on and let someone shoot you with a .45 … it will knock you on your behind and leave you gasping for air even though it did not penetrate. It could have possibly given more folks time to escape … but we’ll never know for sure.

        • Charles Moore

          How do you know that?? How do you know how it was reinforced etc?

      • Dale left coast

        BS . . . a 9 mil would have put him on his ass . . . a good head shot would have killed him . . . a 44 mag would have made the armor dissapear . . . .

      • Nadzieja Batki

        But you don’t know that either and there is also that possibility, that minute chance that someone may have had to take out this human trash.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore asks how we know things about guns and armor.
        “How do you know that?? How do you know how it was reinforced etc?”

        Cause we are good at critical thinking and some of us got passing grades or better in physics. Oh and some might even have experience. You know. Police officers.

        • Charles Moore

          Critical thinking??????? Like somebody stating that a person at a pistol shooting competition shooting at a “still” paper target is the same as shooting at a person that is shooting at you and lobbing grenades. Look at the qualifications for obtaining a CCW permit. One can get one at a State Fair or a few hours course. I go to indoor ranges frequently and they are never crowded. Most people get their permits and purchase a firearm that is attractive or cool etc for self defense and never go to a range. You had people in that theater that admitted that they had children with them because they couldn’t afford a baby sitter etc but people are going to pay to rent a position at an indoor range and ammunition to shoot up. The chances of somebody being in that theater with a gun and being able to take out a determined shooter are almost nil.

          • Dawg

            I never said anything about shooting paper targets, you did.
            I’m talking about the IPDA, IPSC, ect type shooting, it’s a moving/running type competition.
            Just goes to show you’ve never been around gun competition, and have no idea of what you talk.

          • Charles Moore

            Which is shooting in a controlled environment as opposed to a dark theater where a shooter is lobbing grenades and spraying it with bullets. This is your valid comparison?????????????????

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “Critical thinking??????? Like somebody stating that a person at a pistol shooting competition shooting at a “still” paper target is the same as shooting at a person that is shooting at you and lobbing grenades. ”

        Critical thinking like being able to do the simple math on the mv transfer from a small object moving very fast to a larger object that is not moving and is on the end of a lever.

        Oh and interesting that the scenario no longer matches the Aurora shooting. Charles Moore must be trying to distract us with men of straw. Unless mind reader Charles Moore is also able to remote view and saw some grenades that the MSM failed to report.

        • Charles Moore

          You haven;t and can’t respond to the fact that the chance of there being a qualified and trained shooter in that theater was almost nil. When you consider that even of they were qualified in shooting at a controlled environment at a paper target as opposed to being in a dark theater with a shooter spraying it with bullets and lobbing grenades then it is “NIL” Vicki.I am really tired of responding to the fact that you continue to ignore the above and keep coming back with this ” he wasn’t really wearing a real vest” or a “moving object” etc that has nothing to do with it, Either you are an Idiot or somebody that doesn’t have the Integrity to address the issues. I am finished with your childish, inane and pathetic posts.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore writes to me:
        “I am finished with your childish, inane and pathetic posts.”

        Promises, promises.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “You haven;t and can’t respond to the fact that the chance of there being a qualified and trained shooter in that theater was almost nil. ”

        I can and have responded. Apparently you have been too busy writing to actually look for and read responses. Oh wait. You ‘deleted’ me. Maybe that is why you didn’t see?

        I responded to the specific claim of a fact above by answering on July 23, 2012 at 6:35 pm a statement of yours:
        “So the chance of anybody being in the theater to stop it is Nil….”

        by saying:
        “Of course it was nil. Law abiding people respect the wishes of property owners and don’t carry when asked not too. ”

        We can infer that a qualified and trained CCW holder would obey the wishes of the property owner (and Aurora City Ordinances http://www.coloradoceasefire.org/munilaws.htm) by not carrying concealed in the city of Aurora.

        Thus my response to your “fact” is that the chances were not almost nil but were in fact NIL. (quibbles about one lone ranger ignoring the law and otherwise being law abiding not withstanding).

        P.S. that means I agree with you btw. :) Your “fact” has been verified.

        P.S.S. He couldn’t open carry either and respect the wishes of the property owner.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Just because people break laws does not make the laws pointless.

      • Vicki

        Just because people make laws doesn’t make them good laws.

        • Charles Moore

          The Laws are there. The college in Arizona sent letters to both the shooter and his parents that he would not be able to return to college until he had been cleared by a Mental Health official. Nobody including the Police followed up on his aberrant behavior. Of all the fifty States. Arizona is the easiest to have somebody committed for observation. If this had happened then the shooter would have been entered in the Federal Data base and would not have been able to legally purchase a gun. It didn’t happen because people don’t want to get involved. People do not want to be on the other end of a Lawsuit. etc.

          • E. Blake

            The shooting in AZ, has been shuffled under the rug, and we have never heard anything about the guy that did it… curious don’t you think??? This seems to be a common occurance these days.

          • Charles Moore

            You are correct. We haven’t heard anything more. The Media has moved on to the latest shooting tragedy. Did you see anything in the Main Stream Media about the 14 possible illegals that were killed in a traffic accident in South Texas(Goliad) a few night ago?,Did you hear any more about ABC claiming in the first few minutes of the tragedy that the shooter was a member of the Tea Party although it was proven that this was not the case and the tea party person merely had the same last name. There is a lot of publicity about the Batman copy cats who have sprung up in California and Maine who were caught beforehand There was a report about a guy in a theater who yelled “Has anybody got a gun” when the Batman movie didn’t start on time and was arrested.This is the trend of our culture. You now have people on planes making threats and then saying it was only a joke. Hear anything about the Columbine Massacre until the Colorado theater shooting?it is inconvenient for the Media to talk anymore about Arizona since the shooter was proven to be a nut case where there were several behavior warnings and nobody followed up on it.

          • E. Blake

            FBI Exploited Mental Illness in Latest Fake Terror Case Alex Jones’ Infowars: There’s a war on for your mind!
            http://www.infowars.com/fbi-exploited-mental-illness-in-latest-fake-terror-case/

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “Did you see anything in the Main Stream Media about the 14 possible illegals that were killed in a traffic accident in South Texas(Goliad) a few night ago?”

        Why yes I did. Didn’t you?
        http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57477542/14-killed-in-single-truck-crash-in-texas/?tag=mncol;lst;3

        Hard to get more mainstream than that. Well unless you mean NBC :)

        • E. Blake

          How about the trail of trash these illegals leave behind in the Arizona desert, or the food they are taking out of need American childrens mouths, I haven’t seen that. they are just dying to get over here and steel from us.

  • BullZi

    @Nancy@ALL You will not be charged or arrested if you carry into a place such as a theatre that has the “No Guns” signs posted. All they can do, if your weapon is discovered, is ask you to leave. You would be breaking no laws if you are a CCW holder. Their sign or policy does not make it law!!

    • Charles Moore

      It depends on the State. Different States have different rules. Try carrying a gun on a Military base in a State where you have a CCW permit . While it is true that if a State doesn’t restrict you from carrying your gun in a theater and you have a CCW permit and there are signs posted that guns are not allowed most if not all CCW citizens are law abiding and would respect the sign. You are not allowed to carry a gun into a Post Office or a Bank. Most CCW holders will put their weapon in the glove department etc befoire entering them. The criminals will ignore it .

      • Charles

        Being recently retire from the military I have to say I have NEVER seen a gas mask that was bullet proof. Our best helmets still expose the face. Gas masks are simply high grade rubber and acrylic for the eye sights. Nothing fancy. Plus the helmet fits over it by the way. Head to toe body armor is only accurate if he was wearing a bomb suit.

      • Vicki

        If the shooter were really wearing a bomb suit he would be so encumbered that a little girl could have tripped him. Those things are not meant for fast tactical maneuvering. :)

        • Charles Moore

          Nonsense. The shooter was obviously not encumbered and this has nothing to do with your statement about where firearms are allowed etc.
          1. You have people here trying to rationalize that somebody with a gun could have taken cover behind a theater seat and taken him out. Nonsense. Most CCW holders are not crack shots which I have detailed earlier. Many are trying to compare the few that might be qualified at a pistol match competition at a “still” paper target to a shooter that is lobbing grenades.
          2. The mother of the shooter stated when being interviewed by the Police in California that “You have the right person”. Now she is playing cya by saying she only meant that it was her son. Most people that are close to their children would have said ” there is no way my son could have done such a thing”. The Family has hired a Lawyer but only for the family. Unless things have changed in the last few hours the son still has a “Public Defender”. The Family needs a Lawyer to parse their words?

      • phideaux

        “You are not allowed to carry a gun into a Post Office or a Bank.”

        Showing your anti-gun ignorance again Charles. Where I live it is perfectly legal to carry in banks unless the bank itself posts sings prohibiting it.

        • Charles Moore

          You are the one showing your ignorance. What part didn’t you understand about it depending on the State where it was issued? In my State , Banks are included. I am legally not able to take it into a Church. Some other States allow it Want to see a huge problem in this Country. Look in the mirror. Why do you think that the publish boos about the different laws in different States that recognize all CCW permit holders. Apparently you are so ignorant that you don;t know you are ignorant.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore the mind reader says:
        “2. The mother of the shooter stated when being interviewed by the Police in California that “You have the right person”. Now she is playing cya by saying she only meant that it was her son.”

        You sound a lot like that democrat commentator who tried to link the Tea Party to the shooting. I would have thought with your careful study of the Zimmerman / Martin incident, that you would be very careful with what you believe from the MSM. Then again your complete lack of cites to support ANY of your statements I shouldn’t be surprised if you do think you can read minds.

        Charles Moore: “You have people here trying to rationalize that somebody with a gun could have taken cover behind a theater seat and taken him out. Nonsense. Most CCW holders are not crack shots which I have detailed earlier. ”

        Unlike you who is just “observing” that we should all stay unarmed so people like the shooter can have fun without worry that they will get hit by a “lucky” shot. You are such a nice person.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhLrFoSwag4

        • E. Blake

          Personnaly I am tired of getting emails with charles moores name on it!
          The horse is dead no matter how many times you kick him he will not get up.
          And I hate watching all you intellegent people being sucked into the never ending bull.

          • Charles Moore

            The only B.S is you. I know that it is probably a stretch for you to use Logic. I said that the “usual” response in a family that is close and where we have an account is ” my child would never have committed such an atrocity:. Doesn’t take a “mind reader”. You are obviously thin skinned and sensitive and don’t like to have have your absurd comments challenged.,
            I know that you don’t like the word “Logically” but another logical question is why the Family needs to hire a Lawyer to run interference for them and this same Lawyer claims the Family loves their son but their son is left with a Public Defender,

            People such as E. Blake love to criticize others but refuse t address the Logical Questions.

      • Opal the Gem

        “People such as E. Blake love to criticize others but refuse t address the Logical Questions.”

        Perhaps they are waiting for you to pose a logical question.

        • Charles Moore

          I have posed several questions
          1. Is shooting a gun in a controlled environment whether at an indoor range or outdoor range the same as shooting in a dark theater when somebody is spraying it with bullets and lobbing grenades the same thing.
          2. Is any one gun perfect for everybody?
          3. Is a person qualified and trained just because they have a CCW permit?I had 40 hours of training because I temporarily worked for the State. My license was for five years. When it expired and I renewed there was no firearm re-qualification. Just had topay the fee and get a new picture for the permit. So a person can get a CCW permit in a few hours and then not have to shoot a gun in decades.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “I have posed several questions”

        And we have answered them. In this thread. Were you too busy writing them to read the answers?

        Charles Moore: “1. Is shooting a gun in a controlled environment whether at an indoor range or outdoor range the same as shooting in a dark theater when somebody is spraying it with bullets and lobbing grenades the same thing.”

        Answered by me on July 23, 2012 at 4:39 pm

        Charles Moore: “2. Is any one gun perfect for everybody?”

        Answered in the same message above.

        Charles Moore: “3. Is a person qualified and trained just because they have a CCW permit?”

        To quote my favorite lawyer friend. JD. (Just Depends) A lot like JB (Just Because) actually.

        But you “deleted me” so you didn’t see the answers. Oh wait. You deleted me AFTER I posted those answers.
        —————————————-
        Charles Moore says:
        July 24, 2012 at 2:49 pm

        You can’t convince the clueless and delusional Vicki.I have deleted all the comments where her name is paramount .
        —————————————

        Interestingly open mind you have there.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    It is a tough choice. One cant crazy proof the world. There are crazy people in this world and no law will matter to them should they decide to act. But how can sane people respond. We cannot live our lives in fear that one day our fellow human beings will turn on us. But neither can we assume that all people are nice and that we are always safe. I do not know the answer. My best guess is to have strong laws to prevent crazy people from obtaining guns as much as possible. As to the general public I always advocate self defense instruction, pepper spray, tazers and other forms of non lethal self defense. Of course what good will any do against an armed madman, probably little. But it is okay to carry a weapon as long as people comply with the law. As to theaters I am unsure. After all it is not unreasonable to believe that a theater is a safe place, at least safe from a deranged madman going on a killing spree. I do not know what to do. One cannot predict the future. The best I figure is try to not live in fear of your fellow man. We need to try and work to tone down the rhetoric in the public sector and try to teach people to work together on things instead of calling each other nazis and socialists and facists. Will this have any effect on a deranged mind, of course not. But one way it can help is calm the politic talks so that when crazy people speak out their insane ramblings do not get lost in the deluge of voices. The only real way to stop mad men from committing acts like this is to catch them before they do. Sometimes the only real way to do that is to single them out. Being more reasonable in public discourse is one way to help identify the crazy among us and perhaps stop them even if they do get their hands on a gun or any weapon. Its up to individuals to make the choice according to the laws. I support the idea of learning and using non lethal means of self defense while waiting for whatever back ground check or waiting period is required in order to obtain a gun if you feel a gun is necessary. I have no desire to take away a gun from someone once they have met all the legal requirements. It is their choice within the laws applied to decide where they wish to take their weapon and when. The best I figure is use the law and your own instincts to decide. Lets use gun control to fight against crazy people obtaining guns but keep ourselves “armed” however we can. Excessive gun control is wrong, but so is too little. I think some sort of compromise can be made at the very least.

    • Vicki

      Jeremy Leochner says:
      “It is a tough choice. One cant crazy proof the world. There are crazy people in this world and no law will matter to them should they decide to act. But how can sane people respond. ”

      Sane response is not tough at all. Return fire.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I disagree Vicki. A sane person can respond with non lethal force like self defense training or pepper spray or any other form of non lethal defense. Yes this may not be effective. If a person is shooting perhaps there is no alternative. However that is when there is no other choice. It is not weak or “not tough” to try to the bitter end to avoid violence if you can. And in everyday situations there is no way to predict or expect an attack by a crazy person unless you yourself adopt a paranoid mentality that distances you from others. There was no way for those victims to have predicted what happened. If someone went back in time and told them they probably would have thought they were crazy. Terrible things happen but you cant live your life believing something terrible could happen any second. Like I said its a tough choice, between being prepared and being relaxed. Firing back is not the insane way to go. But not firing or rather not wanting to fire or not carrying a gun does not mean a person is not tough or able to fight back.

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “I disagree Vicki. A sane person can respond with non lethal force like self defense training or pepper spray or any other form of non lethal defense.”

        Your disagreement is noted. Too bad you were not in Aurora to demonstrate the effectiveness of your “non-lethal” solution.

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “…. in everyday situations there is no way to predict or expect an attack by a crazy person unless you yourself adopt a paranoid mentality that distances you from others. ”

        Sure there is. It is called Combat Mindset. This video shows a good example.
        http://www.theblaze.com/stories/surveillance-vid-shows-71-year-old-concealed-carry-holder-opening-fire-on-would-be-robbers/

      • Vicki

        And here is the description of the combat mindset. It is easy to maintain and does not require you to isolate yourself from your fellow man.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper#Combat_Mindset.E2.80.94The_Cooper_Color_Code

      • JeffH

        Vicki, excellant reference…Jeff Cooper is an ICON, the father of modern pistol shooting and considered to be the most influential individual to ever hold forth on small arms doctrine and technique.

      • JeffH

        …some Jeff Cooper quotes…

        “One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not agree that ‘violence begets violence.’ I told him that it is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure—and in some cases I have—that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.”
        – Cooper vs. Terrorism

        “The purpose of the pistol is to stop a fight that somebody else has started, almost always at very short range.”

        “Bushido is all very well in its way, but it is no match for a 30-06.”

        “A free man must not be told how to think, either by the government or by social activists. He may certainly be shown the right way, but he must not accept being forced into it.”

        “The media insist that crime is the major concern of the American public today. In this connection they generally push the point that a disarmed society would be a crime-free society. They will not accept the truth that if you take all the guns off the street you still will have a crime problem, whereas if you take the criminals off the street you cannot have a gun problem.”

        “Remember the first rule of gunfighting… ‘have a gun.’”

        “The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory.”

        “The will to survive is not as important as the will to prevail… the answer to criminal aggression is retaliation.”

        “Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands.”

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Yes in a situation like Aurora non lethal force probably wont work. I never said non lethal force is the only way. I don t believe firearms are evil and should never be considered. I just don’t believe in basing your life on the idea that someone could attack you at any moment or that you have to be armed wherever you go.
        I looked up the mindsets. I do not believe its good to be in white mindset. But I do not know if yellow mindset is right either. It mentioned that a yellow mindset includes the thought process “”I may have to shoot today”. I do not think that is right. I can understand a mindset for specific situations but starting your day thinking you may have to shoot today seems paranoid to me. That’s what I meant by a mindset that distances you from other people. If you go everyday preparing for when you have to shoot that could lead you to be fearful of all people and enter a more on guard mindset. You mentioned the 71 year old who shot a robber. That is an understandable time to shot. But carrying a gun a preparing for when to shoot can cause issues. There have been situations where even police officers who are trained to handle high stress situations have fired their guns at a perceived threat only for the “gun” or “knife” to be a cellphone or a wallet. I am not saying don’t be on guard, just don’t assume you have to be on guard always and everywhere. Assuming there’s a threat when there is not is just as bad a mistake as assuming there is no threat when there is.

  • ONTIME

    Lot of sorrow here with any of these lunatic incidents and the finger pointing such as the left is displaying now errupts.
    My question has yet to be addressed, “Where did this dirt poor college kid get the money to purchase some very expensive weaponry and asault gear, I figure around $20 t0 25K for what they describe he managed including rigging the booby trapping….until this is brought to light this entire incident and it’s convenient timing smells a lot like deemer Eric holder…

    • CZ52

      All very good points ONTIME.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      I asked the same question this morning but I doubt that we’ll ever get an honest answer. He was studying under a federal government grant or scholarship. He was studying neuro sciences. Was he studying mk ultra or any other form of mind control? did he have any connections to anyone in the federal government? Anyway, I think it’s critical to know where he got the money and the chemicals for the bombs(?).

    • Daveh234

      Yeah, right. Another conspiracy theory.
      This guy was on his own.
      Nobody backed him.
      He’s a nut case.
      Done and done.
      no further conspiracy to stop gun s and other crap.
      Just stupid rheoric.

      • E. Blake

        Holmes was clearly provided with exotic gear

        Continuing from CBS:

        “He said pictures from inside the apartment are fairly disturbing and the devices look to be sophisticated, adding the booby-traps were ‘something I’ve never seen.’ One rifle, two handguns, a knife, a bullet proof vest, a ballistic helmet, a gas device, a gas mask, military SWAT clothing and unidentified explosives were also found in Holmes’ car, a law enforcement source told CBS News. Oates said Holmes wore a gas mask, a ballistic helmet and vest as well as leg, groin and throat protectors during the shooting.”

        In other words, this guy was equipped with exotic gear by someone with connections to military equipment.

  • Linda

    One thing nobody has mentioned is just where did he get the tear gas canister from – don’t think that’s something you can just buy from your local sporting goods or army surplus store. Maybe we need to make the companies selling protective gear ship it to police headquarters and military headquarters to make sure it is going to people who should have it.
    Lots of unanswered questions
    1. Why when the emergency exit door was opened didn’t an alarm go off and theater security come to investigate?
    2. Why was he still standing by his car when the police got him – would think he would ditch the helmet and gas mask and drive away as fast as he could.
    3. Why did he booby trap his apartment and yet when the police got him he told them the apartment was booby trapped?
    These nut cases are going to make their point with or without gun control. If they can’t get a gun they’ll use something else – can you say IED – now that will cause a lot more injuries. After that I guess they’ll call for banning nails.

  • Alex

    Every five or four days in this wretched country some nut goes wacko and shoots several people. This inevitably fires the gun debate and brings out especially those people who claim that if “everyone in the theater had been armed” lives would have been saved.

    The problem with that assessment is that if fifty people have guns and one starts shooting then everyone will draw their weapon and what will result is Dodge City—pretty much what we have now anyway.

    In the Colorado case, the shooter deployed smoke grenades before firing. Had seven or six of the movie-goers also been armed, they would have found themselves in a dark theater filling with smoke, trying determine WHO shot first—not so easy to do in a mad rush of frightened people. Do you shoot the first person you see with a gun? Do you ask anyone you see with a gun if he is, indeed, the original shooter?

    I will support your right to bear arms as long as you agree to the constitutional provision clearly calling for REGULATION.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Who will you choose to do the “regulating”?
      Your choices I wouldn’t trust.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      The constitution calls for well regulated militias! It calls for the individual’s right to bear arms! Period! It does NOT call for the individuals rights to be regulated!!! NO ONE has the right to regulate someone else’s rights!!!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Not to be pedantic. But by saying no one has the right to regulate other peoples rights are you not yourself attempting to regulate the rights of others.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Jeremy L.,because you have a right to go over a cliff so therefore we have no right to stop you going over the cliff because you have a right to go over a cliff so therefore we have no right to stop you going over the cliff….
        Did your philosophy prof teach you this “dog chasing tail” tale?

      • Jeremy Leochner

        No my professors only taught me to think critically about things. Which is why I do not understand why you say people do not have the right to regulate other peoples rights while simultaneously imposing regulations on what rights people have.
        Also you do have a right to stop me from going over a cliff. I want to jump off a cliff, okay. You still have a right to stop me. In a literal sense of me jumping off an actual cliff you have a right to stop me. Actions are different then words or thoughts or beliefs. You can believe you need a gun to protect yourself. You can carry a gun if you believe you need to. But there are rules governing where you can carry guns. Rights are rights, but they are within reason. I do not have a right to throw you off a cliff just as you do not a have a right to throw me off one. That’s not regulation of rights, that’s simply what is right.

        • E. Blake

          You people won’t be happy until “the preverbiale camel is all the way in the tent”.
          and all the law abaiding citizens are defenseless, and the “CRIMINALS” have not nor never will abide by the laws, make victims of us all’
          Dr and Big pharma kill more people in this country, then cars and guns, and yet they keep pushing their wich doctor tactics, and no one wants to take away their syringes…

      • Jeremy Leochner

        No one wants to make anyone defenseless. I just want to explore personal defenses other then guns and to encourage people to find other ways to live their lives then being armed at all times.
        Doctors make mistakes. Car related deaths are almost all accidents. Guns are deliberately fired and kill people either as an act of defense or an act or aggression. Though sometimes like cars it is an accident and at times people fire guns to protect themselves from something that turns out to not be a threat.

    • E. Blake

      Dr’s and big pharma kill more people in this country, and are the root cause of this lunacy that ends up being mass murder…
      http://corporatemediaexposed.com/pharmaceutical-medical-madness-the-colorado-shootings/

    • Isaac Davis

      Apparently, the wretched country you speak so carelessly about is not quite wretched enough to get you to leave. The Constitution does not REGULATE firearms in any way. What would appear to be “wretched” is your understanding of the Constitutional Republic that you know so little about. Are you a Citizen or a resident? Who was Dr. Samuel Prescott?

    • Vicki

      Alex writes:
      “The problem with that assessment is that if fifty people have guns and one starts shooting then everyone will draw their weapon and what will result is Dodge City—pretty much what we have now anyway.”

      Then since it is the same you have no problem with removing all the infringements cause they are ineffective and therefore a waste of taxpayer money? Ok.

      Alex: “In the Colorado case, the shooter deployed smoke grenades before firing. Had seven or six of the movie-goers also been armed, they would have found themselves in a dark theater filling with smoke, trying determine WHO shot first—not so easy to do in a mad rush of frightened people.”

      Sure it is. Some of the mad rush even took the time to notice who shot first and therefor who was the likely shooter. Another clue is that the other shooters are now returning fire at the single shooter. Pretty straight forward actually. Lets spice up your “man of straw a bit” lets have 2 shooters. Now how do you tell? Not really much harder. They are the ones shooting the unarmed as they race for the exits. Now lets toss in another straw. The 2nd shooter shoots the first (no loyalty). Then what? As lawyers would say JD. Just depends. If the 2nd shooter holsters his gun then it is not relevant. CSI will have to hunt the clues. If the 2nd shooter starts shooting other people then you know there is a 2nd shooter and he is it.

      Feel free to add as many straws as you like.

      Alex: “I will support your right to bear arms as long as you agree to the constitutional provision clearly calling for REGULATION.”

      I’m ok with that. Then the Federal government would pay for my classes at Frontsight.com :) That is what the constitutional provision clearly calls for. You knew that right?

  • http://Yahoo George

    I received an email a week ago from a lady in my church. She informed me that 4 to 5 church ladies have enrolled in a Concealed Permit class. What a nice surprise!
    This did not actually come as a complete surprise. About 18 months ago one of the ladies mentioned that one other lady keeps a small caliber revolver by her bed. I followed up the remark and asked her how she maintains it, keep it cleaned, lubricated, etc. She remarked she had done NOTHING to it. I volunteered to visit her home and do what should be done t to maintain the weapon. It was dirty, dry, and loaded with .22 shorts.
    We talked in her kitchen at the kitchen table as I quickly cleaned it up and, when before I left I suggested she should reload it with ammunition more powerful than the .22 shorts. (My preference is hollow point ammo.)
    So…They will all earn their Concealed Permits with a small Automatic hand gun which the Instructor will provide for the one-day course.
    My suggestion: Those of us who are convinced that ALL rational adults should be Trained and PREPARED can be a strong influence to everybody in our circle of friends and acquaintances. The sad truth is that the Colorada incidents drive home the lesson that there in NO REAL SAFETY GUARANTEED when we are out of our homes.
    As responsible adults, we MUST take the responsibility for our own SAFETY.
    No policeman, no neighbor, no friend can be expected to rush to you and save your bacon! YOU are your own SAVIOR!

    • Isaac Davis

      You nailed it, sir! The neglect of “personal responsibility” is simply mind-numbing this day in age. Putting trust in someone else, especially government, is like cattle asking the butcher to feed and water them.

      • E. Blake

        Here is a little hope for you:
        The Most Pro-Gun City in the United States
        http://politicaloutcast.com/2012/07/the-most-pro-gun-low-crime-city-in-the-united-states/

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Then why do we place trust in the government for things like national defense or welfare for the poor. Or why do we place trust in state governments to oversee police forces and the fire department. Its part of being in a society. Being in a republic. We need individual responsibility but there also needs to be legal ramifications for ones actions. We all live in this society and we all have to contribute. Government is the institution through which we can help contribute to society. As the declaration says “that to secure these rights governments are institutes among men”. The nation, republic and its government is the legacy of the founding fathers. Placing trust in the government, within reason, is placing trust in the institution that the founders created.

        • Charles Moore

          Because we live in an age where a large part of the population is Naive. gullible and uniformed and that percentage is growing every day. Have you ever seen the polls are actual video clips where young people can’t answer any historical questions and some don’t even know the definition about a ” Founding Father”. Ask them a question about Angelina or Brad etc. We should not be in Afghanistan. There is no central government. What exists is a loose network of tribal chiefs. Afghanistan has not be conquered by an outside force since Alexander the Great which was 2300 years ago. It is a regular event or Afghan Police to shoot American troops. It is in the News again today. There is no threat to Americans here in the U.S. Yet our Government says we need to be there .

      • Vicki

        Jeremy attempts to distract with obvious truisms by writing
        “As the declaration says “that to secure these rights governments are institutes among men”.”

        And one of those rights, written into the Constitution cause the founding fathers didn’t trust politicians or voters to protect it, is the right to INDIVIDUALLY keep and bear arms WITHOUT infringement. Sadly the chains on government to keep it “reasonable” were not strong enough.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        However thew constitution also references the fact that “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State” is the first concern over the individual right to bear arms. The right to bear arms is based on the need for a well regulated militia. The key is regulated. I am not trying to distract anyone. I just tend to believe more in gun control then less gun control.

      • phideaux

        “The right to bear arms is based on the need for a well regulated militia. The key is regulated. I am not trying to distract anyone.”

        Yes you are trying to distract people.

        Well regulated as it is used in the Second amendment does NOT mean bound by rules and regulations. It means well equiped and ready to answer the call to duty.

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “However thew constitution also references the fact that “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State” is the first concern over the individual right to bear arms. ”

        A lesson in English grammar for those who are not native speakers. (And for liberals.)

        http://constitution.org/2ll/schol/2amd_grammar.htm

  • http://Yahoo George

    I spent a couple of months each Winter in Arizona. (RV Camp) Military Retired
    When I arrive at the Gate, I park, go into the small Hut there beside the Gates, carry a 3X5 card with the Serial Numbers, make, size, etc. They make a record of me, vehicle, RV site, etc. and I drive in. I inquired why I don’t have them examine my weapons. Their response was; While you are registered at the RV Camp you are considered a “RESIDENT” on the base and you are able to have your weapons in your home (RV)

  • Dawg

    Some people have the wrong idea of ballistic helmets and body armor.
    There a lot of small areas not coveres by the armor, and with the ballistic helmet, you have about a 10 ” area (neck and face)that is not covered by the helmet.(easy to hit if you’re trained)
    Do a google search and look at them.

    • Charles Moore

      Do you know how difficult it is to make am accurate head shot?. Most people with a CCW permit have little or no training. Very few after getting a permit pick a weapon that is compatible with just them and few go to the range to practice with it. Your comments are CSI T.V. nonsense. Even the few that could make the head shot would not be assured of hitting the vulnerable areas. When you have somebody that is shooting up the place in an indiscriminate manner then it would be even harder to have long enough to take the shot. You have been watching too many fast draw westerns on T.V. where the god guy draws fast and hits the mark every time. The head to toe armor was obviously to make a difficult situation even more difficult.

      • Dawg

        Sounds like you’ve never trained with a pistol, and have been watching CSI ( I hate that show, it’s so bogus)
        Everyone I know that has a CCW, can hit that small of a target @ 15 yrds, and some can hit it at 30 or more.
        You need to go watch a pistol compitition one of these days to see what can actually be done, instead of watching TV. LOL

        • Charles Moore

          Nonsense. I have been in pistol competitions. The comparison of people that engage in pistol competitions and even the number of people that go to the range on a regular basis compared to the number of people with a CCW permit is miniscule in normal times let alone in bad economic times with the cost of ammunition and renting a position etc. I have yet to go to an indoor range and find it so crowded that can’t get a position, So the fact that somebody would be in the theater that could make that shot especially with those conditions is also miniscule

      • Dawg

        Don’t know what kind of comp you shot,, if you did, you would know the truth. An indoor range is no place to make a judgment on CCWs. All the pistol competitors here have a ccw.
        To much Kool-Aid, MSMBC, and TV has you brain washed.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        lots of nonsense but offers no evidence. Debate FAIL.

        We are no more likely to believe your “proofs by bald assertion” then we do Flashys.

      • phideaux

        I have come to the conclusion Charles Moore is a blowhard and as big a lier as Flashy.

        • Charles Moore

          Then instead of just making childish and inane comments and resorting to name calling then how about telling us of your vast experience regarding guns and shooting them?

      • Vicki

        phideaux says:
        July 24, 2012 at 1:54 am

        Charles Moore says to phideaux :
        “Then instead of just making childish and inane comments and resorting to name calling……”

        You mean childish and inane comments and resorting to name calling like these?
        ————————————————————-
        Charles Moore says:
        July 24, 2012 at 2:49 pm

        You can’t convince the clueless and delusional Vicki.

        I have deleted all the comments where her name is paramount .

        She just keeps repeating the same nonsense and tries to distract with such non essentials such as “the shooter didn’t have an authentic vest and moving objects.

        …but the clueless Vicki doesn’t seem to get it. Zimmerman would have never exited his vehicle in the dark in that neighborhood if he didn’t have a gun.

        There was no reason for him to exit his vehicle as no condition existed where a gun was necessary.

        Zimmerman did not call the Police until he had exited his vehicle even though he now claims that when he first saw Martin that Martin was acting suspiciously.
        ————————————————————-

        Or should we provide more examples? (Hypocrisy thou hast a new name)

  • gunner689AI

    Banning guns because of some Calif. nut job who never got his ass smacked as a child makes as much sense as banning and blaming airplanes for 9/11. Screw Hillary and the UN. Blue helmets make great targets.

  • Smithkowitz

    How do we stop these types of activity? We can’t. All we can do is hope that the penalty administered for such crimes, is a strong enough deterrent that even a person that is bordering on psychotic / insane actually has an instant of recognition of self and respect for their own life, to not carry through with their warped thoughts. What I am saying is: The Ultimate Penalty needs to be implemented, more often and in short order. Most criminals don’t want to die, but they also know, the odds of that are slim and it could take decades. They need to have FEAR re-instilled, it is apparent that our current form of penal justice does very little if anything to prohibit criminal activity.

  • Bimbam

    THE WHOLE THING WAS STAGED!

    I mean it’s pretty obvious. Either this guy hated guns and was setting gun owners up. Like the gun club and various websites or he was an oBAMA HACK setup by the administration to bring the 2nd Amendment down.

    Look at the facts:

    He orders an insane amount of ammo online.
    He orders from various gun-selling websites.
    He tried to join a gun club.
    He does this a few days before the UN vote on sovereign gun rights. Mainly America.

    All of this targets the 2nd Amendment, the internet, and gun owners.

    We were being setup folks!

    • Charles Moore

      Nonsense

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Why are you so adamant that it is nonsense?

      • E. Blake

        Most college students can’t hardly afford to feed themselves, muchless buy all the stuff this guy had, or have access to some of it???

        • Charles Moore

          My point exactly

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “My point exactly”

        And that point was?

        • E. Blake

          Vicki says:

          July 23, 2012 at 5:55 pm

          Charles Moore says:
          “My point exactly”

          And that point was?
          Most college students can’t hardly afford to feed themselves, muchless buy all the stuff this guy had, or have access to some of it???

      • Vicki

        So E Blake is saying that Charles AGREES that the whole thing was staged? Charles was that your point even approximately?

    • FreedomFighter

      Yes, you are correct, the entire thing stinks of pych-ops, Black-ops operation. The signs are all there, but like all good black-ops operations, inpossible to prove, and if anyone could they would die some how, and quickly. This type of thing has been done for thousands of years by those in power to push population and will be done again.

      Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, its probably a duck.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Vicki

        “Yes, you are correct, the entire thing stinks of pych-ops,”

        Almost too obvious that it is a phych-ops mission. Like they are dropping clues to use to discredit the conspiracy theorists too. Chess. Good game to learn. Tells you much about elites. Sun Tzu – Art of war. Another good source.

        The actions of the current administration in regards to “fast and furious” give pause to ask were they lying then or are they lying now? (Or yes :) )

      • Deerinwater

        It stinks period Vicky ~ the boy is a nut ~ he is sick, what he has done it sick. Other then a society that allowed him to be might guilt be found, while any society is found victim to the insane and sick.

        There is no need of making more out of it then what it is.

    • Deerinwater

      “We were being setup folks!” I do believe that you are trying!

      • Bimbam

        I usually don’t respond to half-baked wit but just let me say this:

        There are 4 steps to truth.

        1. It is first denied
        2. It is then ridiculed <— you are here as most people are.
        3. It is then violently opposed.
        4. It is then finally accepted as truth.

        And you have a good day, sir.

  • http://gekruckeberg.com G. E. Kruckeberg

    Timothy McVey killed 168 people in Oklahoma City in 1995 without using a single gun – just fertilizer and fuel oil. Guns are not the problem. They are the solution!

    gekruckeberg.com.

    • Vicki

      They (guns) are A solution. They are not magic either. They would not have stopped that bombing but then again there is some doubt how much of that plan was McVey and if there were others. (Darn those grassy knolls)

      If you choose to travel this link take a large crystal of salt with you.
      http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1963

  • Tess

    ………And does no one make demand for an end to Hollywood portrayed violence with all its vivid examples, inventions, hatred, and abnormal attitude to life? So many movies influence and destabilize society as disturbed people copycat the violence. The power to improve the world should become the aim of movie producers and directors by producing decent movies with good story line and character portrayal. The spin-off would be far more beneficial to the world. Is it too late for Hollywood to redeem itself ?

  • Vicki

    A thought for Charles Moore, Flashy, Kinetic1 and others

    ————————————————————————
    “It is INSANITY to believe that more gun control will make us safer.

    Criminals, terrorists, and the deranged DO NOT follow gun control laws. Never have and never will.

    Any politician, opinion leader, news pundit, or business owner who thinks otherwise is the poster child for Albert Einstein’s definition of insanity. ”
    ———————————————————————–
    http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2012/07/23/front-sight-blog-gun-free-zone-enforcers-have-blood-on-their-hands/

    • Charles Moore

      You are Delusional as well as being clueless. I have never advocated Gun Control. What I said was that there are people that are making absurd comments and ridiculous theories. Why would I have a CCW permit if I was for gun control?

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore writes:
        “Why would I have a CCW permit if I was for gun control?”

        For the same reason Diane Feinstein had one?

  • boyscout

    Guns are bad. Bad, bad bad ! See what happened when a poor innocent got a hold of too many – those weapons warped his mind and altered his personality. Please keep yourselves safe from similar consequences and send your weapons and ammo to me. Forget about my violent criminal history (I’ve changed ;) ) and I do solemnly promise to obey by all the rules in the code.

  • Vicki

    From http://clashdaily.com/2012/07/the-dark-knight-movie-massacre-why-i-carry-a-gun-everywhere-i-go/

    “For those who say, “Doug’s insane with all this concealed weapons crap. We should leave such affairs to the police,” allow me to point out that the theater was crawling with cops for the Batman opening to control the crowds. By the time the police got to the particular theater, it was all over. ”

    This emphasizes the truth that “when seconds count the police are only minutes away.” even when they are RIGHT OUTSIDE.

    To those who say that we should leave such affairs to the police, I say that a policeman is to heavy to carry around and too big to conceal.

  • wdharris2

    If they conceal laws that would have allowed guns in a theater, He would have been stopped by one of the three vets. that was KILLED in the theater.

    • Bimbam

      I’m waiting for reports of armed people that were killed in the theater. This tells me there was more than one staged gunmen to ensure the redhead did his job.

      It was reported very strange that no one fought back even though within arms reach of the joker. That in indeed is very strange.

      This tells me there was other people there to help ensure the staged event went proper.

      • Charles Moore

        Nonsense. Many of the survivors reported that they thought it was part of the Premiere and thought the theater was exploding firecrackers until they saw blood on people. I don’t know about Colorado but of all the theaters which I am aware it is illegal to do so. So why would they think this is possible?It is illegal for no other reason in that it could panic people etc.

    • Charles Moore

      Nonsense.. Only one of the three was a Vet. Just because you are a Vet or acitve Miliary doesn’t mean that you automatically have a CCW Permit .

  • Bimbam

    STAGED Masaccre:

    It was just revealed on another blog that the FIB, er FBI was on the scene WITHIN MINUTES even though the Aurora mall had a police station only about a 100 yards away.

    The gunmen gave up right after. I agree with the blogger hardly someone who was maniacal in killing everyone would just throw up is arms as the blogger said “mission accomplished”.

    Something stinks here and I think it is BO from the White House.

    • Charles Moore

      Nonsense. Do you believe everything you read. I have seen no articles where the FBI was first on the scene.

      • Bimbam

        Here is part of the bloggers report:

        “Amazingly, the FBI was warned two months ago about terrorism coming to American movie theaters. Yet, they seem to have mysteriously ignored these warnings. I suggest visiting the preceding URL as soon as possible as this link most assuredly will disappear from the net courtesy of the police state surveillance grid. Why wasn’t this warning acted upon? And why do several URL’s keep disappearing from the net, related to this FBI warning, causing truth-seekers to continually repost this information? Many people have been puzzled by the rapidity of the FBI’s presence on the crime scene which even preceded many of the Aurora police officers arriving on the scene, despite the fact that the Aurora police maintain a substation in the mall less than 100 yards away from the crime scene. A reasonable person might be inclined to ask, what did the FBI know that the Aurora police did not?”

        And you have a good day, sir!

        • Charles Moore

          A few years ago the present Homeland Security made the statement that returning Veterans from Afghanistan and Iraq were potential terrorists also.The Media tried to associate the shooter in Arizona with the Tea Party etc. Then the news came out that the college of the shooter sent parents to him and his parents that he would not be allowed to return to school until he had clearance from a Mental Heath official. A teacher in that college quit her job because she was sacred by his actions. The Police who were called due to his behavior did nothing. Of all the Fifty States it is the easiest in Arizona to commit somebody for observation. Nobody followed up. After the incident in Aurora the Police didn’t increase their presence at all theaters showing violent films. Just a the ones showing the Batman movie. Then there were several copy cats. There was an incident in a California theater showing the Batman Movie when the Movie didn’t start on time and some guy yelled “Does anybody have a gun?” He was arrested. There were other incidents where people were caught with guns on their way to the Movie.

          There is no way that this is some large conspiracy. The shooter in Aurora also used a cheap magazine that causes the gun to jam otherwise there could have been more carnage. if the Government was behind this then it would seem that they could have been better quality. It would also seem that if the Government was behind the conspiracy that an expert marksman with a scope that could be used in the dark would have taken him out. The shooter waited by his car after the carnage. He could also have been taken out then.

  • afdbghq

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    This says it all. Any law abiding citizen has the right to own as many weapons of whatever type they choose and carry them anywhere anytime they want. If the law abiding citizen wants to own a 50 cal. machine gun, a bazooka, a stinger missile, or any other weapon that is their right afforded by the second amendment without any restrictions placed on them by the government or private business.

    However, if a person misuses their weapon then the punishment needs to be both swift and extremely severe. Do not punish the law abiding citizen. The problem is that when a person uses a weapon improperly it takes, in many instances, several years to exact the punishment.

    An example is someone convicted of first degree murder and sentences to die. It can take the state up to as many as 25-30 years or more to carry out the sentence while the convicted person sits on death row getting a law degree, some of the best medical care available, free food and clothing while using their law degree looking for every possible loophole to get out of the sentence. Then when the state is ready to carry out the sentence some liberal judge or the governor either commutes the sentence or gives a pardon or rules that because the prosecutor did not dot the I on the second word of the fifth sentence of the third paragraph on page ninety-nine of some document.

    If the punishment is not extremely severe and carried out in a timely manner where is the motivation for the criminal to not commit the crime?

    • Kinetic1

      afdbghq,
      How does “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” translate into ” Any law abiding citizen has the right to own as many weapons of whatever type they choose and carry them anywhere anytime they want.”
      It is not infringing your right to keep and bear arms if there is a law saying you can’t own a bazooka. A law that prevents you from owning a fully automatic rifle does not prevent you from owning a semi automatic rifle. Requiring you to register your guns doesn’t prevent you from building up an arsenal. The 2nd amendment protects your right to own a gun, but it says nothing about giving you carte blanche.

      “United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939), the Supreme Court’s definitive statement on the Second Amendment. Miller was indicted for carrying a sawed-off shotgun across state lines, and argued that the Second Amendment gave him the right to possess such a weapon. The Court held that “[i]n the absence of any evidence tending to show that the possession or use of a ‘shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length’ at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument.”

  • Vicki
    • http://na Mike in Ne.

      Vicki, loved all your posts and links. I know one thing this site has taught me is how to more quickly realize you’re talking with a Flashy etc. Oh by the way, nice groups on your targets. Keep up the good fight.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/GaryMallast Gary J. Mallast

    The Brits are just going to arrest those people and outlaw chairs and beer barrels. Imaging using such things a weapons.

  • http://www.USConcealedCarry.com/?utm_source=personalliberty&utm_medium=blogcomment&utm_content=ccwpermitholder&utm_campaign=patseo CCW Permit Holder

    I agree that with all the smoke bombs and the movie playing that even if you had a ccw permitted weapon, you might have done more harm than good. Still, this tragedy isn’t an excuse for the liberal faction to start taking guns away, and they’re milking it for all they’re worth.

    What I’ve learned from all of this and from the Trayvon Martin case is that you cannot trust the media — either side. They’ll skew the information toward their causes anytime they can. We’re given mis-information more often than not.

    The only people who truly understand what really happened in that theater are the people who were in the theater, and the only ones who really know what happened in the Martin case are the two people involved. We’ll never know the whole truth of any of it.

    • Charles Moore

      As for the Martin/ Zimmerman deal in Florida. Here are the facts. A person with a CCW permit in Florida is not allowed to display a weapon unless the life of the CCW permit holder or somebody else is in imminent danger. That situation didn’t exist until Zimmerman exited his vehicle and started following Martin. .Zimmerman wasn’t even on his neighborhood watch patrol and was outside that community, Zimmerman and his wife were untruthful during the 1st Bond hearing about their Funds. There area also recorded jail conversations where Zimmerman and his wife tried to hide the funds and used money contributed for his Defense for other personal reasons. There is a video clip where Zimmerman in an Interview claim ” It was Gods’ plan”I would be trying to CYA since it is Florida Law that if a person is convicted of a crime and fires a gun in the process then it is an automatic 20 years in Prison.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore writes:
        “A person with a CCW permit in Florida is not allowed to display a weapon unless the life of the CCW permit holder or somebody else is in imminent danger. That situation didn’t exist until Zimmerman exited his vehicle and started following Martin. ”

        Your statement is in error. The situation where a CCW permit holder is allowed to display a gun did not exist until Martin began beating Zimmerman over the head with a sidewalk. That is when Zimmerman obeyed the law, deployed his gun and demonstrated good gun control.

        Btw According to Charles, I can not walk around in Florida. :( I am the weapon. The gun is but a tool. A REALLY good tool for self defense. That’s why police carry them.

        • Charles Moore

          Are you serious? The situation didn’t exist until the wannabe Zimmerman exited his vehicle. Zimmerman did not call the Police until he exited his vehicle even though he claims now that Martin was acting suspiciously when he was driving his car. Zimmerman would not have exited his vehicle in that neighborhood in the dark if he didn’t have a gun. The situation did not exist until Zimmerman exited his car. What proof do you have that Zimmerman is telling the Truth? He has already been caught being untruthful several times yet you are convinced that he is telling the truth of the incident. You need to take your proof and forward it to his Defense Attorneys who have even announced on National T,V that he was being untruthful and promised not to do it again,it is really scary that somebody as clueless as you has a CCW permit.

      • Kinetic1

        Vicki,
        If you were out for a walk and an unfamiliar man was following you in his truck, what would you do? If he left the truck and started looking for you, what would you do? My guess is you might shoot him! You’d feel threatened, and if he showed his weapon it’s almost guaranteed that you would not wait to ask what his intentions were.

        So, you may be right about Treyvon attacking Zimmerman, but the fact still remains that from Treyvon’s perspective, Zimmerman posed a threat to his safety. Too bad he didn’t have a CCW permit.

        • Charles Moore

          You can’t convince the clueless and delusional Vicki.I have deleted all the comments where her name is paramount . She just keeps repeating the same nonsense and tries to distract with such non essentials such as “the shooter didn’t have an authentic vest and moving objects. Nobody knows for sure what happened with Martin and Zimmerman but we do know that Zimmerman has been caught in several untruths and was taped while in Jail of conspiring to hide funds that were donated for his defense to pay other bills and distribute money among relatives. Yet people such as Vicki are convinced that he is telling the truth about what happened with Martin. I can Guaranty you that if I am walking from the Store and it is evident that somebody is following me that I am going to be apprehensive but the clueless Vicki doesn’t seem to get it. Zimmerman would have never exited his vehicle in the dark in that neighborhood if he didn’t have a gun. There was no reason for him to exit his vehicle as no condition existed where a gun was necessary. Zimmerman did not call the Police until he had exited his vehicle even though he now claims that when he first saw Martin that Martin was acting suspiciously.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “Zimmerman would not have exited his vehicle in that neighborhood in the dark if he didn’t have a gun.”

        Why not? It was an upscale neighborhood. Oh wait. Multiple recent burglaries. Member of the neighborhood watch group. Has CCW. Needs to observe and report which means leaving vehicle as there is no place to drive where suspect has last been seen.
        Its the little things.

        Charles Moore: “The situation did not exist until Zimmerman exited his car.”

        Do you think that repeating the same false statement over and over will make it true?
        The situation authorizing the deployment of the gun did not exist until Martin began hitting Zimmerman forcefully with a sidewalk.

        Charles Moore: “What proof do you have that Zimmerman is telling the Truth?”

        Eye witnesses accounts.

        Charles Moore: “You need to take your proof and forward it to his Defense Attorneys”

        I am pretty sure they already have it. :)

        Charles Moore: “it is really scary that somebody as clueless as you has a CCW permit.”

        I hope and pray every day that more and more CCW holders are at least as clueless as me. You are welcome to join them.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “You can’t convince the clueless and delusional Vicki.”
        “I have deleted all the comments where her name is paramount .”
        “She just keeps repeating the same nonsense and tries to distract with such non essentials such as “the shooter didn’t have an authentic vest and moving objects.”

        So many ad-hominem atttacks. So little space. Is that the best you can do Charles?

        Charles Moore: “Yet people such as Vicki are convinced that he is telling the truth about what happened with Martin.”

        Actually I tend to pay attention to what little I read that is allegedly from eye witnesses and police reports. Most of my comments about the events are to counter the false or silly speculation of liberals.

        Charles Moore: “I can Guaranty you that if I am walking from the Store and it is evident that somebody is following me that I am going to be apprehensive but the clueless Vicki doesn’t seem to get it.”

        Oh look. Another ad-hominem attack. Ruffled feathers?

        Charles Moore: “Zimmerman did not call the Police until he had exited his vehicle even though he now claims that when he first saw Martin that Martin was acting suspiciously.”

        http://reason.com/blog/2012/04/03/did-zimmerman-ignore-the-police-dispatch

        Guess we know just how much Charles Moore really knows about the events in the Zimmerman / Martin case.

      • JeffH

        Vicki :) …or anything else for that matter. Do ya think he’s full of it? I’d bet his eyes are brown too!

  • michaeljbeglinjr

    CHARLES MOORE: Either you are getting paid to make so many comments, or you have absolutely nothing better to do with your time than troll internet news stories. Sad.

    • Charles Moore

      You are correct.
      1.Shooting at an indoor or outdoor range in a controlled environment is exactly the same as shooting at somebody in a dark theater that is spraying the theater with bullets and lobbing grenades.
      2. Any gun is perfect for everybody
      3. All CCW permits holders are all expert marksmen and expertly trained

      Feel better now?Are you getting paid to make Stupid comments?

    • Charles Moore

      I did a search on Colorado CCW permits to be sure. They are a standard four hours just like everyplace else and there is no shooting qualification just like every other place. I assume that it is just like my State where the permit lasts for 5 years. Upon the expiration of five years one can renew for another five years. No re-qualification test even a written one. So it is entirely possible that one can have a CCW permit for at least ten years and never have fired a gun, Yet you have a bunch of people here who state that “if a CCW permit holder in the theater then the CCW permit holder could have taken out the shooter., Some even claim with a head shot. Are you serious. A person who has never fired a gun before but is a CCW permit holder could have taken the shooter out with a head shot?Never mind the fact that it was in a dark theater with the shooter spraying it with bullets and lobbing grenades. Another such Genius claimed that the shooter “had fake armor”. What difference does this make when there was no way of knowing it at the time. Another making absurd statements claimed he was a CCW instructor. I guess he gave one of those “intensive four hour courses where there are no shooting qualifications required .

      • CZ52

        ” They are a standard four hours just like everyplace else and there is no shooting qualification just like every other place.”

        More lies from Charles Moore. My CCW class lasted way over 4 hours and it did require shooting to show proficiencey with your firearm as well as the ability to follow instructions.

        “Upon the expiration of five years one can renew for another five years. No re-qualification test even a written one.”

        The renewal of my CCW permit requires re-qualification it is not just given to me.

        If these statements from Moore are not outright lies they are made from absolute ignorance. Many states require more than just a 4 hr class to get your permit, many require shooting to show proficiency with your firearm, and many require some type of re-testing to get your renewal. Moore would have us believe that just because some state has certain requirements or lack of them all other states are the same.

        • Charles Moore

          Are you really that clueless? The only Liar here is you or you you are just really Stupid. I am not familiar with Colorado so I did an Internet search on “Colorado CCW permits. These are Legislated by the State so are uniform. Anybody can do the search and I detailed. The Colorado Website that came up in the search stated that ” the CCW Course consisted of 4 hours of intensive training”. It went on to state that there are no shooting qualifications but there is a separate course for shooting for the beginner that is ten hours long but is not required for the CCW license. I have been through this before with your twin sister Vicki who claimed I was a Liar about where I could take weapon. Others have stated the same thing.

          I went through a course with my State as an independent contractor that was forty hours and consisted of a written part and a firearms qualification. It was not for a CCW permit. I was able to get a CCW permit by paying the licensing fee since I passed requirements that were ten times as long. I no longer work in that area . I have been Retired for over six years. Last year it expired after five years. I called to check if I had to re -qualify either written or firearms and was told no. All I had to do was fill out the application, send a recent picture and pay the fee,

          This is not the first time you have called me Liar because you are incompetent. The Statewide course in Colorado is four hours. So anybody sitting in that theater in Colorado would have had a Colorado CCW permit and would not have had to shot a gun for it.

          Now . I want to know the name of your State and I will also do a search on it and see what the Qualifications are for a CCW permit since you make the claim, I think you are a Joke and you have continued to prove it and make untruthful accusations. You are a Clown.

          I will be waiting for that State.

        • Charles Moore

          Still waiting for the name of that State so I can compare it to others. Perhaps you were caught in another Lie and are trying to find one. lets have the name of the State.

        • Charles Moore

          I am still waiting for the name of your State that has such stringent requirements so we can compare it to the rest of the States. Are you a COWARD as well as a PHONY and a Liar?

          • E. Blake

            Arizona requires this and you must spend time on the range, fire 200+ hundred rounds, proficiently.

          • Dawg

            Texas too

          • Charles Moore

            The Laws are different in each State. The theater was in Colorado . My Brother still lives in Victoria Texas and he tells me that Texas also has a Law that if he is traveling say in the car with his wife that doesn’t have a permit and they come under attack that ti is legal to pass her one of his guns . That law doesn’t exist here.So what.

          • Charles Moore

            Another Joke. Just did an Internet search on “Texas CCW permit”. First one that comes up is another online course that states that Governor Rick Perry signed an agreement with Virginia for something called a “Non Resident Virginia permit”. This online course is $39.95. You pay the $39.95 and then take a quiz and you will be sent the CCW permit that is good in the State of Texas and Virginia and a few other States.

            If you people can’t find a 5th grader to help you do the search then just type in the name of the State and CCW permit.

            Again. The chances of somebody qualified in that theater and carrying a CCW permit that was well trained is “NIL”.

            How about you people doing a search before you make comments.

          • Dawg

            Straight from the web site.
            “Our class curriculum for the Florida and Virginia Multi-State Concealed Firearm Permits (CFP’s) is designed to provide people with the required information on firearm safety, applicable concealed carry laws, and the law regarding the use of force and deadly force. This is NOT a shooting class. There is a very brief REQUIRED range qualification that requires an instructor to witness you safely fire a handgun on the range.”

            Before you belittle someone , you need to read to the BOTTOM of the paragraph.yourself.
            You do have to score above a certain score to pass.

          • Charles Moore

            You need to read your own post. “There is no shooting class required”. There is a “BRIEF ” Qualification. Can you read?. You give me this nonsense about the most stringent requirements in Texas and then come back with “No shooting class required and a “Brief” Qualification. Look up the word “BRIEF”. When i used to visit my Parents near South Padre Island there were all kinds of signs on the roads from Port Isabel to San Benito and also in Brownsville for a “quick ” CCW LICENSE.

            I will repeat it again. “”" JUST BECAUSE A PERSON HAS A CCW PERMIT DOES NOT MAKE THEM A QUALIFIED SHOOTER”.

          • Dawg

            The more you talk, the more you look infantile.
            Straight from the Az web site.
            “N. An applicant SHALL demonstrate COMPETENCE with a FIREARM through any of the following:

            1. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class that is available to the general public, that is offered by a law enforcement agency, a junior college, a college or a private or public institution, academy, organization or firearms training school and that is approved by the department of public safety or that uses instructors who are certified by the national rifle association.

            2. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Arizona game and fish department or a similar agency of another state.

            3. Completion of any national rifle association firearms safety or training course.

            4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class that is offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies or other divisions or subdivisions of law enforcement or security enforcement and that is approved by the department of public safety.

            5. Evidence of current military service or proof of honorable discharge or general discharge under honorable conditions from the United States armed forces.

            6. A valid current or expired concealed weapon, firearm or handgun permit or license that is issued by another state or a political subdivision of another state and that has a training or testing requirement for initial issuance.

            7. Completion of any governmental police agency firearms training course and qualification to carry a firearm in the course of normal police duties.

            8. Completion of any other firearms safety or training course or class that is conducted by a department of public safety approved or national rifle association certified firearms instructor
            Again, you need to learn how to search the ‘Net’
            Maybe your state allows permits without any kind of range time, but all the others do.
            You sure you have a permit?

          • Charles Moore

            Are you really that Stupid. I merely did a google search on “Arizona CCW Permit”. There is a Website entitled “CCWAZSCHOOL.COM” One can take a 30 minute exam on a Conference call. It Specifially states > NO EXAMS, NO RANGE NEEDED. After taking the course and receiving you completion certificate you will need an AZCCW application and an application fee of $60.00 payable to the Arizona Department of Public Safety

            There is another website titled Concealed Handgun Classes that states that you can complete the course for an Arizona CCW permit in the comfort of you homw.

            There is another online course for an Arizona CCW permit called “Online CCW ,COM which is an Arizona Online course by ARMED PERSONAL DEFENSE

            There are many others. If you are too Stupid to do a google search on “Arizona CCW permit” or can’t find a 5th grader to help you then it is not my problem. The only infant here is you. These people could not advertise it legally unless it was the case. Of course. the first one which is “CCWAZSCHOOL.COM ” with the 30 minute course also offers a 5 step program that “meets or exceeds” the Arizona requirements . On can take all five courses and do exactly what you state. They are not necessary. There is no range or exams needed.

          • Charles Moore

            The Question was not for you. And I doubt very seriously that even if somebody would have been able to have a CCW permit that somebody would have been in the theater with one from Arizona and that there was a Reciprocity agreement etc.

            The requirements for a CCW permit in Colorado was four hours and no firearm qualification. So I will repeat the question

            :What are the odds that somebody in the theater with a CCW permit and a weapon would have been trained enough to stop him”.

            How many people in Arizona among all the people at the gathering of the Congress Woman had a gun etc?

          • Charles Moore

            Is this a joke?I just did an Internet search on “Arizona CCW permit” and the first website that comes up is one in Arizona called Personal Defense that advertises an online CCW course for $19.99. All you have to do is pay the $19.99 and you will be given a Log In etc and after completion of the online course will immediately be mailed a certifictate that is good in 25 States

            Why don’t you do the same search?

          • E. Blake

            I got ocean front property in Arizona, would you like to buy some??? I don’t know what you get for $19.99 but I wouldn’t want to get pulled over with it.
            For $43.00 and a list of qualifications you can get your ccw in AZ.
            (4. “Certificate of firearms proficiency” means a document issued by the Department to an individual who meets the requirements of LEOSA)
            .http://www.azsos.gov/public_services/Title_13/13-09.htm

          • Charles Moore

            Did you do the search Moron?. Try and find another 5th grader to help you. I did a google search on “ARIZONA CCW PERMIT”. ” CCWAZSCHOOL,COM offers a 30 minute Conference call that specifically states NO EXAM -NO RANGE NEEDED. . After taking the course and receiving your completion certificate you will need an AZ CCW application .Take them both and enclose a $60.00 fee payable to the Arizona Department of Public Safety

            Another such website is “Concealed Handgun classes LLC that advertises an Arizona CCW permit from the comfort of your home.

            Another online Arizona CCW Course is http://www.onlineccw.com

            Of course, if you are in the State where these websites are located then you can take a course that exceeds the requirements.

            You have clowns such as yourself, Vicki and Dawg here that are feeding misinformation rather then make a simple search. I could care less what you clowns did to obtain your CCW permit. I don’t believe you really have one after the misinformation you have put forth. The facts are the facts. Having a CCW permit does not guaranty adequate trainng.

          • Dawg

            Gee Charles, both items I posted were straight from the Tx and Az gov LAW web sites.
            Does that mean that they, too are stupid?
            I sure going to belive all those ads that try to sucker people in, give their hard earned money, then find out they still have to have range time to finish the CCW.
            I also notice that you like name calling, just like a Lib, when losing, call them names

          • Charles Moore

            Yes, you are Stupid. There were no shooting qualifications required. You posted that yourself. Then you tried to make a big deal about “Brief”. Do you look up the meaning of the word “Brief”?

            Here is another question for you Genius. They are online courses. How do you have actual shooting on an online course? You will find that the word “brief” refers to a question or two about shooting .

            Both Arizona and Texas specifically state “NO SHOOTING QUALIFICATION” on the online site.

          • Dawg

            There you go again, calling names.
            If you don’t shoot in this state, YOU WON’T GET A CCW.
            Just because you read it on the Net, makes it true, right?
            A sucker born every minute.
            Now, I’m going to do something I very seldom do, Charles Moore, you’re an Effn idiot.
            Talk about fifth graders, You might get there in a couole of years.
            I do help a friend instruct twice a month for CCW, I have shot competition since 82′
            Not the kind you stand there, but the kind you have to run, jump, go through tile, and shoot at moving targets anywhere from 7 yrds to 600 yards, classed as a Master and a High Master.Distuinguished in Rifle, working on Pistol.
            Get a life, experince other things outside your little world, move out of your parents basement, get a job, be productive. I doubt if you can.

          • Charles Moore

            You are a Joke. I suggest that you file a Lawsuit against all these people on the Net if you really believe that they are false. You could make a lot of Money. If you have a case then it will easy to find Lawyer to take it on a “Contingency” basis who will only take 30% of all of this wealth that you are going to receive. I am surprised that somebody of your vast intelligence and experience hasn’t thought of it already.

            One of three that I quoted for Arizona allowed you to take Quiz. The they would mail you a certificate of completion which you would then include with an AZCCW application and a fee of $60,00 and you would receive a CCW permit. It even gave the name and phone number of an Arizona official to help fill it out. I suggest that you start with them.

            I gave you the website of the one in Texas and the Non Resident Virginia agreement signed by Rick Perry. Then your response is that I didn’t read down far enough to where it stated No Shooting required and then a Brief firearm qualification
            1. There is not Shooting required
            2. If there is no shooting required for the firearm qualification and there is a “brief” firearm qualification then that means it has to be written as it is an online course. Do you think that maybe there might be an online video game for a shooting qualification?

            Did you look up the word “Brief”. Does that definition apply to any of your range qualification courses? Of course not.

            You made an absurd Statement. You can’t back it up. Instead of having the Integrity to admit that you can’t back it up you tried to defend it by an online course with the word “Brief” Then when that ridiculous claim didn’t work out for you then I am a “sucker”. Of course. you didn’t claim the websites were bogus earlier. Just tried to rationalize on the word “Brief” and there is no way that one can have a range shooting course that is :”Brief”.

            There are hundreds of these websites that Guaranty a CCW permit for certain States. They even claim that they are recognized is 25 or more other States. There have even been Media articles about how easy it is to get a CCW permit out of State.

            Let us know the results of your Lawsuits against these Websites that you claim as False. I also suggest that you write a letter to your State Attorney General and the State Attorney Generals in the other States about their illegal activity. They have been around for years.

            I recently renewed my CCW permit as it expired after 5 years for another five years. I did not have to take a re-qualification test either written or on the range.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says to CZ52:
        “Are you really that clueless? The only Liar here is you or you you are just really Stupid.”

        Wonderful ad hominem attack. So full of debate style.

        Charles Moore: “I have been through this before with your twin sister Vicki who claimed I was a Liar about where I could take weapon. Others have stated the same thing. ”

        Charles Moore is mis-informed or mis-reading since others have stated that Charles was a liar about where he could take a weapon but I have not.

        I HAVE pointed out that he could NOT take his weapon concealed into Aurora the city nor could he take it into the theater without ignoring the wishes of the establishment.
        http://www.naturalnews.com/036549_Aurora_concealed_carry_gun_confiscation.html

  • E. Blake

    Proof Government Stages Mass Shootings: Batman Massacre Decoded
    http://www.infowars.com/proof-government-stages-mass-shootings-batman-massacre-decoded/

  • Brazen

    I say let’s let everyone carry weapons at the Republican rallies for Mitt Romney. It will be interesting to see Mr flip-flops opinion on GUN CONTROL when he worries about his chances of being killed if everyone is allowed to carry weapons at his functions.

    • Charles Moore

      How childish. Do you think that Mayor Bloomberg who started ranting about Gun Control before the bodies were removed from the Aurora theater goes anyplace without his armed bodyguards? How about your idol Obama? There has been a gag order on everybody that had any interaction with the shooter in Aurora. His family has hired a Lawyer yet they have left their son with a Public Defender. You are going to find out that this shooter in Aurora is a nut case and people were aware of it just like the shooter in Arizona where people were aware of his behavior and never followed up on it. If either had been reported and committed for observation then they would have been entered in the Federal Data base and would not have legally been able to purchase a firearm. It is ignorant people such as yourself who are part of the problem.

  • nc

    Mr. Rolley, the exact number of those killed and wounded in Colo. were known within hours so I wonder why a “RESPONSIBLE JOURNALIST” like you could not bring yourself to repeat them?
    Where I come from 12 innocent people killed in minutes by gunfire is a a massacre not “several killed” ! “Several killed” is what might happen at an NRA shooting range when they try to teach a 5 year old to shoot an automatic rifle!
    WHY COULD YOU NOT REPORT THE TRUTH??? Your bio says you have trouble with the main stream media! They didn’t have any trouble seeing that what happened was something more than just “several killed”.

    • Charles Moore

      Nonsense. There were 14 Illegals killed in an automobile accident in Goilad Texas the next day. That is two more people. What was the coverage on it?There are that many people killed in Chicago Illinois on a regular basis. There are 150,000 gangs there. What is the coverage there?The main headline regarding Chicago is such as yesterday when the Mayor of Chicago criticizes the owner of a Chicken franchise for stating that he only favors marriage with the opposite sex and the Mayor of Chicago claims that this guy doesn’t share Chicago values.

      • E. Blake

        Who cares about the illegals, do you know how many illegals come into this country and kill people? Just research Arizona, they drink they drive, no insurance, no license, and then they sever;y injure or kill people with vehicles. I personally know a woman in a wheel chair for the rest of her life, she was in her 30′s, another woman died in front of her husband and children on christmas eve, in both cases the illegals were able to flee the accident and never found! How many do you hear about in these cases. I know a citizen that hit and injured and illegal, and he spent 5 years in prison… Funny how blind justices realy is???
        And by the way, I did see that accident on the news.

        • Charles Moore

          Hey Genius. My response was to the person who complained about the 12 people killed in Aurora as being a massacre. There were more people killed the next day there and in Chicago alone. I know that its way over your head as to the reason for the attention to one and not the other.

    • http://gravatar.com/elsmomem lawsof motion

      “nc”

      WHAT IF personal liberty authors wrote articles in advance? WHAT IF they put in the specific 12 and then someone else passed away as some of the victims were/are in critical condition? I got my e-mail with this article at 7:17 Monday morning. To me, that means it had to be written Friday because I am willing to bet the authors aren’t working weekends. A lot can happen over a weekend. I seriously doubt the Mr. Rolley intended any disrespect, and was most likely attempting the opposite. While the article was not as specific as you would obviously liked, I do not see any false information.

      Have a great day.

      • E. Blake

        There is no clear-cut definition for when killings are referred to as massacres or not, rather, this choice is a result of an individual or collective assessment, depending e.g. on how the circumstances of the killing align with given ideas of acceptable use of force and on the desired status of an event in collective memory.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre

      • Charles Moore

        Within minutes of it. ABC was claiming that the shooter was a member of the Tea party. Nobody bothered to check and see if the shooter and the tea party member were the same person. They weren’t and merely had the same last name. Mayor Bloomberg who doesn’t go anywhere without his armed body guards was ranting about Gun control while there were still 10 bodies in the Aurora theater. I guess this is responsible Journalism for you.. You have people here on this blog that think that if a person with a CCW Permit had been in the dark theater that they could have stopped this shooter who was spraying it with bullets and lobbing grenades with a head shot even though it is possible to have a CCW permit for ten years or longer and never have fired a gun. One even stated after the fact that the shooter had fake armor although it is unclear how somebody would have known this at the time with all the chaos..This shooter will turn out to be a nut job and there will be evidence that many people including his family saw the warnings and did nothing about it.

  • nena

    To John:
    The “Let’s Roll” theory may have been the appropriate action in this situation. However, you never really know how you would react if you were put in this situation. I live in North Carolina where carrying concealed is legal. The catch is you are not allowed to carry it into malls, theaters, or other public places. When I was younger I had seen men carrying weapons at the local convenient store and once even saw it in the local mall. If anyone seeing a man how is carrying a weapon would be less likely to become “Billy badass”. There were brave men who used their selves as shields to protect the ones they love. If these men had been carrying a handgun the events may have unfolded differently. Do not let the politicians turn this tragedy into a battle of gun control. They need to talk to the people who put them in office. Start with Texas and move on-if they really want the answer. Most of the people I know believe we should have the right to protect ourselves. If everyone who believes in that right would get out and vote-the gun-Nazi wouldn’t have a chance!

  • Ben Dover

    “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”- Thomas Jefferson
    The tree of liberty could not grow were it not watered with the blood of tyrants. – That once a year we should hang someone in government as an example to his fellows. Henry David Thoreau

  • Mercy

    I have a carry permit. If I carry my weapon, I need to be ready, able, willing to use it when a situation clearly calls for it. There are no restrictions in this County, other than the post office, where I can carry my weapon. Were I in a movie theater and something like this happened, darn right I would have drawn and fired, in fact emptied, the gun into/at this guy. I go to the range, I’m a good shooter. In places where gun carry is legal and ubiquitous, violent crime is reduced. If you aren’t prepared to use it, don’t carry it. You’ll shoot yourself in the foot (or worse). If you don’t know how to use it, don’t carry it. If you’re afraid of legal consequences because you acted to save lives, don’t carry it. And if you think the “powers that be” don’t know where every single licensed gun IS, you’re fooling yourself. Anarchy ever develops, they’re coming for your gun(s) and for mine, first stop.

    • Charles Moore

      The key words here is that you go to the range and practice. It is possible to get a CCW Permit without ever shooting a gun. There are no re-qualifications to renew it. Just keep paying the fee and supply an up to date photograph. Having a CCW permit does not make you qualified to take out a shooter in a darkened theater etc. I too am not allowed to take my weapon into the Post office yet was told by a woman here that this was not the truth.People here seem to think that having a CCW permit makes you a qualified shooter.

  • DavidL

    Sanders,
    There is no gun show loop hole? Is this news report wrong?

    http://abcnews.go.com/WN/gun-show-loophole-closed/story?id=10404727#.UBPm5aNleM8

    • DavidL

      Are gun sales at gun shows regulated? Yes, sort of…depends a lot on the state. People and companies engaged in the business of buying and selling guns must have a license from the federal government. These merchants must comply with federal law by completing a background check on a potential buyer using the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.

      However, that requirement only applies to licensed gun dealers. Private citizens who are not engaged “in the business of dealing” firearms who make only “occasional” sales within their home state ARTE UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO CONDUCT BACKGROUND CHECKS ON PURCHASERS. They are legally forbidden from selling to a person who they know is prohibited from buying a gun (such as an ex-felon) but they don’t have to verify anything.

      • Charles Moore

        Correct

  • Pamela

    Average Joe sure is correct on everything he has said, (July 23). There is so much going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about or very few people know about. I encourage everyone who has not read Average Joe on July 23 to do so right now.
    Obama is trying for a Socialist Country like Europe. All the taxes, rejecting the Keystone project, so much more is the catalyst to bring America to its knees. Until obama became president, I was not aware there were so many socialist in this country. The health care bill is full of junk no one knows about. Even Sean Hannity is not allowed to talk about the 3.8% tax on the sale of home starting January 1, 2013, the government being allowed to transfer funds electronically from our bank accounts whenever they want to, the RFDI chip that is supposedly mandatory by some time in March of 2013 and so many more things that have nothing to do with health care. Why isn’t Romney talking about these things? Has he been told to shut up? Have the Bildergergers picked his VP? Somehow the Bildergergers decide who will run and who will win. Reagan said he didn’t want a Bildergerger for a VP and the Bilderbergers said, “Oh yes you do” and he got one. And now FEMA has bought milllions of meals. And they have hundreds of thousands of caskets that will able them to stack deceased people 4 deep in the caskets. Anyone who knows what is going on knows that the Bilderbergers want to destroy 90% of the world population. No one is allowed to talk about the Chemtrails that are poisoning everyone and every thing. Just read about Average Joe’s research on gun control in other countries. Many who talk against the government will be put into FEMA camps. I am told people are going around to churches and telling people that some day those church people will need to be willing to be taken to a safe place when America finally does go crazy. The safe place? A FEMA camp!
    I am sickened by the people who do not care to know what is going on, don’t read the papers, don’t watch TV especially Fox News, (they do the best they can reporting, but even they are not allowed to report the whole truth). They are not even going to vote. So many lazy people just don’t want to work and think the government will take care of them. How disallusioned they are. I know people, smart people who think this administration is doing a good job. (And they tell me they don’t want to hear anything political.) If so, why are we trillions in debt? Why are so many people losing their homes? I could go on and on. Why are the people of America electing those who turn away from God? He is withdrawing His blessings on this free nation because of this. Look at the drought and floods and pestilence and disease over taking our beautiful country! People, please get back to church and get back to honoring our Lord and Savior and get back to decency life styles.
    Be aware that the Liberals create so many things to distract us from the truth. Global warming is a joke. The world is a living thing, it changes constantly. We know that from history. What makes people think that now we are living here that the world will stop changing? Granted, we could use our resources better, but the world is constantly changing.
    God help us! Please help us to elect honorable people who will magnify honorable principles. I pray for Romney’s safety. It is a no brainer who to vote for.
    I am ready to post this comment but there is a part of me that is afraid, afraid I will be hauled off for what I have written. Please pray for me and our country. Put God back into your life. God bless.

  • Bill Fox

    If I have to go someplace, I carry a gun. I haven’t flown since 1992. I do as much as possible with respect to the government (getting tags, paying taxes, etc.) online or by mail (but there are plenty of armed government employees at the county building or other government buildings. In Georgia, you cannot carry a firearm into a church, so I do not go to church, which I would probably do weekly (and I tithe), but for that law. A preacher was murdered by an armed robber 5 miles from my home. I do not go to political rallies, stadiums, or any other gathering where my right to bear arms is restricted. I keep all of my licenses and paperwork up to date and I make sure my vehicles don’t have any mechanical problems which would cause a “stop”. I do not drink or use drugs. At road blocks, I tender my driver’s license and insurance card, and I do not talk. I answer questions as shortly as possible. Wake up people. We have not rights. Take your copy of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, put a match to it, and watch it burn. Your “rights” are ink on paper. Don’t provoke the government, and you may live a little longer. You won’t find me at protests or signing terrorists documents like petitions sent to politicians. If I don’t have anything nice to say about our leaders, police, and other dignitaries, “I don’t say nutin at all.” Be smart my friends. You have not rights.

    • Charles Moore

      The resident expert Vicki hasn’t replied to your post? I mentioned earlier that I had a CCW permit and couldn’t carry my weapon into the Post office or a Church and she responded that this was B.S.. Satlding e Laws are different as to the CCW permit holders. State law mandates that I can’t carry my weapon into a Bank, Post Office , Government Building or Church. I also can’t carry it into an establishment where over 50% of sales are Alcohol. So I can take it into Red Lobster etc but not a bar. I think I did read that Georgia was trying to get it passed so you could so it in Airports and also open carry. Did that ever come to pass?

      • tim

        Charles why do you think they call it concealed, everyplace you mentioned is where these crazy shooters do thier business. Do you lock it in the car so it can get stolen?? A 9mm really has alot of stopping power. LOL
        Bill Fox you need to fight for those rights, not turn into a sheep. What are you gonna do when the gov’t tries to take your’e guns. Gift wrap I presume!
        On my way to the gun range with my daughter. see ya!!

        • Charles Moore

          Are you really that STUPID?My State restricts where I can take it. I got out of my vehicle a few years ago as I was going into a store and the wind blew up my shirt. While I was in the store two Police officers approached me and asked me if I had a gun. I told them Yes and they asked me to step outside and another Police officer pulled up in a police car.I showed them my permit and asked if there was a problem .They said no and said that a person in a truck had reported it.

          If I was to walk into the Post office and the same thing happened then I would lose my license. Apparently you are advocating breaking the Law in my State because it is concealed.Are you really that clueless?Amazing. It is really scary that you and Vicky and her twin CJ have a CCW permit.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore says:
        “The resident expert Vicki hasn’t replied to your post? I mentioned earlier that I had a CCW permit and couldn’t carry my weapon into the Post office or a Church and she responded that this was B.S.. ”

        Making up stories now?, mis attributing them, or just misreading them. Or do you happen to actually remember where I responded with such a claim and can provide the cite.

      • Vicki

        Charles Moore writes:
        “It is really scary that you and Vicky and her twin CJ have a CCW permit.”

        Why?

  • Petechris

    Pass a million laws and confiscate all firearms and those criminals will still have guns and will use them to carryout their purposes, thats why they are called criminals. Laws are only for law abiding people to follow as guidelines. Criminals will continue to do what makes them criminals.

    • Charles Moore

      This is the problem . One of the people killed in Aurora was a woman who was in a shooting incident in Canada. Canada has much stricter Laws then the U.S. The college that shooter in Arizona attended sent him and his parents a letter that he he would nt have been allowed back in college until he received a clearance from a Mental Health official. A teacher quit because of his behavior because she was scared for her life. Nobody followed up including the Police who were called several times about his behavior. If he had just been committed for 48 hours of observation then he would have been entered in the Federal Data base and would not have legally been able to buy a weapon etc which may have slowed him down. You are going to find out that this shooter in Aurora was unstable and people ignored it.

      Then you have the copy cats. You had a guy in a theater in California that yelled “has anybody got a gun” when the Batman picture was late in starting. You had another incident where a 28 year old was wearing a shirt with ” I am the Joker” written on it and when he was fired made threats. The Police went to his home and found a lot of weapons.You had a lot of other copycats.

      If you took all the weapons away then the criminals would still get them. This is correct. The Mayor of Chicago where there is 150,000 gang members and 12 killings a week is more worried about the CEO of a chicken franchise that made the Statement that he only believed in marriage between the opposite sex. The Mayor stated that the CEO of the chicken franchise didn’t have Chicago Values, Somebody has to elect these people with backward priorities which is another part of the problem.

  • gunner689AI

    I have no doubt that the feds undera BO administration will try to capatalize on this tragedy to inforce stringent gun laws on we the citizens of the United States. It will be up to us to defy and ignore those illegal laws to the best of our ability. Ballots or bullets, heaven forbid it ever comes to that again. But what is it worth to maintain our freedoms as citizens of this once great nation. The gvt. has already usurped our 1st Ammendment rights with “hate speech” laws and political correctness. In a practical standpoint blaming guns for this atrocity is like blaming airplanes for 9/11. Remember: PC is BS

    • E. Blake

      And so it begins:
      Sneaky Dems Attempt Gun Control In CyberSecurity Bill

      Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/07/sneaky-dems-attempt-gun-control-in-cyber-bill/#ixzz21w1hILWy

    • Vicki

      gunner689AI writes:
      “Ballots or bullets, heaven forbid it ever comes to that again.”

      There are 2 other boxes we have to protect freedom and liberty. You are using one right now as am I.

      Soap Box.

      The full list and the correct order to use them is

      Soap Box
      Ballot Box
      Jury Box (FIJA.org)
      Ammo Box

      • Ides Of March

        Why aren’t you fighting in Afghanistan you weapons advocate? Great to be a gun nut, but God forbid you were drafted to fight a war.

      • Vicki

        Ides Of March says:
        “Why aren’t you fighting in Afghanistan you weapons advocate? Great to be a gun nut, but God forbid you were drafted to fight a war.”

        Why aren’t you?

    • gunner689AI

      Eyes of Mush: You asked why I’m not fighting in Afgan. Oh how I wish I could. Viet Nam was my war. 2 combat tours with the Marine Corps ( 67 to 68 & 71) Wounded and medivaced home both times. My son has had several tours in Afgan. and Iraq as a SEAL. Unfortunately they don’t take 63 year old men. I enlisted, not drafted into the Corps when I was 17. Now how about your history Mush ?

      • E. Blake

        I thought somebody was might be sticking their foot in there mouth when I read the comment yesterday. But any way thank you and your son for your service, And even if you can’t inlist, I think we need you here at home the way they infiltrating us…

      • gunner689AI

        Thanks Blake. It was my honor and privilage to serve and am ready to do so again. No resonse from Eyes of Mush on his bio.?

        • E. Blake

          Mushes silence is speaking volumes, he should be embarassed, by his brain dead remarks.

  • JON

    I support the 2nd amendment, BUT I don’t believe anyone needs an assault rifle. except for a soldier in battle. I also support rigorous background checks, gun registration for all guns purchased, and especially gun training for the owner. That way they know how to properly use one, which reduces the risk of self harm.

    • Charles Moore

      I don’t own an assault rifle. Never saw a need for it. I know people who own an AR15. They just own it and keep in in their home. I have a shotgun but otherwise small arms. You can’t conceal a shotgun or an AR15. There are some people who feel that if they succeed in banning say an AR15 that small arms are next.

    • Vicki

      JON says:
      “I support the 2nd amendment, BUT I don’t believe anyone needs an assault rifle. except for a soldier in battle.”

      When the 2nd amendment is most needed it will be when everyone will need to be that soldier in battle.

      “Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American … the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.” – Tench Coxe
      http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/tench+coxe

      You really don’t want to wait till then to try and get the weapons. The logistics are very messy.

    • E. Blake

      Firearms training can and has been achieved at home, My Dad taught us, and we have done the same for our kids, and I don’t need any one to decide what kind of firearms I should or should not have in my home. Gun registration is only for the law abiding. So people need to quit thinking that this is going to help or fix any thing. the only thing this will accomplish, is letting the government know where to collect the next victims guns…

    • gunner689AI

      when your enemy has ” assult weapons” you’d better have one also.

      PC is BS

  • tg sherman

    Give me one good reason that the President & his family can have gun protection & I can’t????

    • Vicki

      Cause he’s the king? Or at least thinks he is.

      • E. Blake

        He also thinks we need to provide him and his leaches, exstravagant vacations, $800 a lb steaks, all the golf a dibit head can play, etc, etc, etc.

  • Ides Of March

    You have a bunch of yahoos who want unlimited access, to weapons, and you hope that the person next to you may have a gun and not go berserk, or you do something he or she or them do not like and they start shooting. Do you want that unknown factor? I guess if you shoot varmints, you are a weapons expert. Look what happened to Dick Cheyney’s friend while duck hunting with that draft dodger.

    • E. Blake

      there are what 6million at lesat gun owners and they haven’t shot you yet, It must be hell when you have to drive down the road considering your odds are greater of dying in a car crash, or even worse yet more people die at the hands of Dr, and big pharma.
      Get a grip, or you will die of a stress related stroke , or heart attack.

    • gunner689AI

      Mush; still awaiting your ” sorry” and your bio.

  • JON

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

    Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

    He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

    He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

    He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

    He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness of his invasions on the rights of the people.

    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

    He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

    He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

    He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

    For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

    For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

    Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

    We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
    He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

    In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

    Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

    He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

    He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

    He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

    He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness of his invasions on the rights of the people.

    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

    He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

    He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

    He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

    For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

    For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

    Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

    We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
    He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

    In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

    Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

    He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

    He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

    He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

    He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness of his invasions on the rights of the people.

    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

    He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

    He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

    He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

    For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

    For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

    Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

    We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
    He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

    In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

    • gunner689AI

      Bravo Jon. Well said and I agree completely.

  • Hughze

    This article says it all. If there had been some sane people in that theatre with guns, there would have been less or no deaths. The mad man on the shooting spree would have been taken down. It’s a person’s right (not privilige) to defend himself and others while waiting for police to travel miles through traffic to get to the scene. Anti gunners just don’t get it.

    • Charles Moore

      Who is the “Anti gunner?” Again there is no Guaranty that somebody in that theater would have been a qualified shooter that could have taken him out.

      • HH

        Qualified my eye Charles Moore! I’m fed up to my ears listening to you folks cry about people who carry guns that aren’t qualified because they haven’t been “properly” trained. Do you know what “qualifies” ME? My 2nd amendment constitutional right to own and bare arms qualifies me, NOT “proper” training! No where in the second amendment does it say I have to be properly “trained” to own and bare arms (see last paragraph below). Even the folks who have HAD “proper” training, 99.9% of them have NEVER been in a situation like the Aurora shooting and only GOD knows exactly how they would react! I’m sure the victims in that theater would have welcomed ANYONE with a gun who could have at least TRIED to take out that shooter!

        And for your information, I, like the drafters of the 2nd amendment, got my training from my father, uncles, grandfathers and also for me, 45 years of gun ownership, shooting, hunting and a general RESPECT for firearms AND the safety of others!

  • Faith H Whitcomb

    Faith – our 21 year old son was murdered by his ex-girlfriend, Vickie. A liberal friend assumed I was for gun control. But, Rick was stabbed in his heart with a kitchen knife. My reply to my friend “what about knife control?” Vickie murdered Rick with a knife. Gun control won’t stop anyone whose goal ist murder.
    Murder is on the increase not because of guns. I believe it’s because of the fact that murdered prison time is 6 to 8 years. Vickie was out of of prison in 9 years. She took
    about 60 years of Rick’s life and only gave up 9 years of hers. What’s wrong with our criminal justice system? It’s called criminal justice because it’s the criminals who get justice not their victims.
    This contributes to the increase in violence and murder. We need to be able to defend ourselves from criminals.

  • Larry Wheat

    Body armor is exactly what it’s called. The trouble one of these bozos would have with me, if I’m fast enough, is I shoot for the nose or an eyeball. It’s a smaller target, like a game bird’s head, but when you hit it, things go silent real fast and everyone can go home to their babies except the bad guy. I can hit a paper plate off-hand with a pistol at a hundred yards. Woe be unto the moron who is within a hundred feet. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns, and of course the cops who may or may not really be on your side one of these days (soon from the smell of things). When you’re down to where seconds count, your local Gestapo will be there in a few minutes or so depending on whether there’s a money ticket being written….In the time being, start shootin’ or become invisible.

  • Pingback: Armed against tragedy – Washington Times « Gds44's Blog

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