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Would You Be This Brave?

July 1, 2011 by  

Would You Be This Brave?

On July 4, 1776, after months of heated debate, representatives of the Continental Congress voted unanimously that “these United Colonies are and of right ought to be Free and Independent States.”

Thirteen colonies voted to become something new: the United States of America. All they had to do was to win their independence from a government that would consider them traitors.

Fifty-six men bravely affixed their signatures to the Declaration of Independence. What sort of men were they? And what became of them?

Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists, 11 were merchants, nine were farmers or plantation owners. They were well-educated men of means. All of them had a great deal to lose when they voted to defy what was then the most powerful nation on Earth.

One of the signers was Richard Stockton, a distinguished jurist from New Jersey. At the conclusion of the meetings, he proudly affixed his signature to the Declaration, joining 55 other delegates. Each of them willingly risked everything when they pledged to each other “our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.”

Sadly, the revolution was to cost Judge Stockton the first two. But he would never surrender the third.

As he returned from Philadelphia to his home in New Jersey, Judge Stockton was warned that British troops were coming to arrest him. He fled to a neighbor’s house with his wife and children. But a Loyalist, a supporter of the British cause, betrayed the family’s hiding place. Here is what happened next, as described in a wonderful little book Personal Liberty wants to give you this Fourth of July:

The judge was dragged from bed and beaten, then thrown into prison. This distinguished jurist, who had worn the handsome robes of a colonial court, now shivered in a common jail, abused and all but starved.

A shocked Congress arranged for his parole. Invalided by the harsh treatment he had received, he returned to (his home at) Morven to find his furniture and clothing burned, his fine horses stolen, and his library — one of the finest private collections in the country — completely destroyed. The hiding place of exquisite family silver, hastily buried, had been betrayed by a servant.

The Stocktons were so destitute that they had to accept charity. For the judge’s fortune was gone, too. He had pledged it and his life to his country. He lost both. He did not live to see the Revolution won.

That account comes from a wonderful little book called They Signed For Us. It was written half a century ago by Merle Sinclair and Annabel Douglas McArthur, two patriotic ladies who wanted to help others learn more about the remarkable men who signed the Declaration of Independence.

At the end of today’s column, you’ll find a link that will take you to a copy of the book. You may read it online or download it and print your own copy. The file also includes a list of all of the signers and the States they represented, plus the complete text of the Declaration of Independence.

To whet your appetite a bit more, here’s another excerpt from They Signed For Us.

SUDDENLY THE BIG BELL in the State House steeple pealed joyously. The appointed signal! Cheers rose from the waiting crowds.

Proclaim liberty throughout the land….’

Cannon boomed, drums rolled. Church bells rang, sounding the death knell of British domination!

News of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence spread like wildfire. Ready messengers leaped into their saddles to ride and spread the word. The Declaration had been ordered printed on a single large sheet, ‘45.5 x 37.5 cm.,’ or approximately eighteen by fifteen inches. These broadsides were distributed with all possible speed, to be read in the provincial assemblies, pulpits, market places, and army camps.

The story continues:

On July 8, the Liberty Bell summoned citizens of Philadelphia to the State House yard for a public reading of the document. Colonel John Nixon mounted a high platform and spoke the noble lines in a strong, clear voice. The crowd, now hushed, listened intently throughout.

‘…for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.’

It was almost a month later that the Declaration was engrossed on parchment and ready for signing by the delegates to the Continental Congress. Members gathered on Aug. 2 for the ceremony.

The only person who had signed the Declaration on July 4, 1776 was John Hancock, a delegate from Boston who had been elected president of the Continental Congress. He wrote his signature in large, bold letters and as he did, in a reference to the near-sightedness of the British king, he declared, “There! John Bull can read my name without spectacles and may now double his reward of £500 for my head. That is my defiance.”

As the delegates gathered around a desk to sign the Declaration, William Emery, one of the representatives from Rhode Island, moved as close as he could. “I was determined to see how they all looked as they signed what might be their death warrants,” he later wrote. “I placed myself beside the secretary, Charles Thomson, and eyed each closely as he affixed his name to the document. Undaunted resolution was displayed on every countenance.”

Contrasting with Hancock’s confident signature was the shaky scratch of Stephen Hopkins from Rhode Island. Hopkins, the second-oldest signer, suffered from palsy. As he handed the quill to the next person, he valiantly proclaimed, “My hand trembles, but my heart does not!”

As one or two delegates hung back, seemingly reluctant to add their signatures to such a momentous declaration, John Hancock encouraged them. “We must be unanimous,” he said. “There must be no pulling different ways. We must all hang together.”

Legend has it that Benjamin Franklin replied, “Yes, we must all hang together. Or most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.”

Happily, none of the signers was hanged by the British. But all of them were considered traitors to the Crown. And many of them suffered terribly for the cause they so ardently supported.

John Morton, a delegate from Pennsylvania, was the first of the signers to die. His last words for his family, before his death in April 1777 (just eight months after he signed the Declaration), were, “…tell them that they will live to see the hour when they shall acknowledge it to have been the most glorious service I ever rendered to my country.”

The following month, Button Gwinnett, the commander in chief of Georgia’s militia, was badly wounded in a duel with a political opponent. He died a few days later — the second signer to die.

But by and large, the signers of the Declaration of Independence were a hardy bunch. Three of them lived until their 90s — a remarkable accomplishment in a time when most men did not see their 50th birthday.

Only two of the signers were bachelors. Sixteen of them married twice. Records indicate that at least two, and perhaps as many as six, were childless. But the other 50 signers were a prolific lot, having a total of 325 children between them. William Ellery of Rhode Island had 17 children; Roger Sherman of Connecticut had 15.

Fifty years after the united colonies declared their independence from Britain, plans were made for jubilant celebrations on July 4, 1826. Only three of the original signers were still alive: Charles Carroll, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams. Here is how Sinclair and McArthur describe what occurred that day:

“In a dramatic climax that even their agile minds would not have contemplated, these two principals in the struggle for Independence left the nation awestricken and touched, by dying hours apart on the Fourth of July. Jefferson died at one o’clock in the afternoon, Adams toward evening.”

Ten days earlier, Jefferson had written the mayor of Washington, expressing his regret that ill health prevented him from coming to the nation’s new Capitol to join the festivities.

“I should, indeed, with peculiar delight, have met … with the small band, the remnant of that host of worthies, who joined with us on that day, in the bold and doubtful election we were to make for our country, between the submission or the sword.”

He concluded by writing, “Let the annual return of this day forever refresh our recollection of these rights, and an undiminished devotion to them.”

As part of that “undiminished devotion,” we are delighted to provide you with a copy of They Signed For Us. Please click here for it.

And please share this copy of Straight Talk with others you know, so they may enjoy it as well. Just forward this column with a short note, urging them to read about the incredibly brave patriots who won our freedom for us when They Signed For Us.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

P.S. Happy anniversary to us! This weekend marks two full years of Straight Talk columns for Personal Liberty. How time flies when you’re having fun! As many of you know, I also write two other, shorter features for Personal Liberty every week: Chip Shots, which appears at the bottom of each Friday email, and This Week in History, which appears at the bottom of each Wednesday email.

As it happens, my very first piece for Personal Liberty was about the incredible men who pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to secure liberty for us. So it seems only appropriate to share that message again today, as we prepare to celebrate 235 years of independence. Happy July the Fourth!

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    I think that was back when being a lawyer was a noble profession, where lawyers actually had a vested interest in upholding the law, not prostituting it like todays lawyers do. These days, its all about how much money they can make, and right and wrong doesnt matter anymore. Pretty sad actually.

    • Wayne937

      Begeroni, I hate to agree with you, but I do. Lawyers has lost their credibility over the years. We have very few lawyers anymore who really want to see our justice upheld. The only thing most of these crooked lawyers want is the money and the hell with the way they obtain it. It is sad for me to say this, but this is my opinion and my experience with lawyers. I am glad to see some one else feel the same way.

      • Old Henry

        Wayne937:

        As usual it’s the 99% that make the other 1% look bad…

        • Mike in MI

          O’Henry -
          How many (lawyer, legislator or citizen) today, would actually agree to the proposition that there is really such a thing as “honor”.
          Or agree to the further proposition that there is anything “sacred”.
          Or recognize that without the second, the first is totally meaningless and a misnomer.

        • Void1972

          TO ALL
          I would like to wish every good American on this site a SAFE,HAPPY & HEALTHY 4th of July weekend, and a very large THANK YOU to Bob Livingston, Chip, Ben and all the other writers on this site. You all deserve a medal of honor for the work you do!
          Thanks to all the honest and educational post by DaveH, Kate8, Richard Pawley, Beberoni, SC, Wayne, Old Henry, Al Sieber, Patriot, C130GunShip and all the other great Americans that contribute to the education of the liberal.
          We may not always agree, but we all love this great nation.
          May God continue to shine his Love over us all and continue to bless America and those who fight for her!!!!

          • Al Sieber

            Same to you too Void.

          • wayne937

            Thank you so much, Void1972. I wish the same for you, and yours.

          • JC

            Right back at ya! :)

          • Al Sieber

            And Void, don’t forget JeffH also.

      • Bud Tugly

        The difference between lawyers and roosters is that roosters cluck defiance while lawyers…

        • Mike in MI

          Bug Tubly -
          Chickens have no comb and in decent company “cluck”.
          Roosters have a red comb on their head and if of personal worth and esteem “crow”.
          Chicsters go around with perpetually ruffled feathers, pomade, a brush and a blower mumbling something about “cockydiddletoo”.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Nice call Bud. Im picking up what your laying down.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        It is the very same group that have tanked our political system Wayne. Lawyers. They are all lawyers, and they think of themselves as above the law, and have prostituted it so that they commit crime after crime, with all our monies, and they walk away and arent held accountable, because they are all in bed with each others. It has turned into a despicable profession. I honestly do not know one person who looks at law professionals, and says “now thats an honoring profession”. Not one.

    • JC

      “Human nature itself is evermore an advocate for liberty. There is also in human nature a resentment of injury, and indignation against wrong. A love of truth and a veneration of virtue. These amiable passions, are the “latent spark”… If the people are capable of understanding, seeing and feeling the differences between true and false, right and wrong, virtue and vice, to what better principle can the friends of mankind apply than to the sense of this difference?”
      – John Adams
      (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President
      Source: the Novanglus, 1775

      • Dan az

        This is a good example of the liberal mind set of where they think they are taking us.I feel they are using history only to repeat it to destroy this nation.The culture of the Roman world was brutal and nasty. Ironically, we see its worst practices reviving with vigor. Please give us a moment as we recount a history seldom taught today’s students.

        The Roman Empire had a twisted view about the value of human life. These views were banished by the ascendency of Christ’s teaching. Infanticide was both legal and encouraged in ancient Rome. Pagan societies, such as the Carthaginians, Romans and Greeks went so far as to kill their children outside the womb, sometimes as a religious sacrifice to their gods. According to Plutarch, the Carthaginians “offered up their own children, and those who had no children would buy little ones from poor people and cut their throats as if they were so many lambs of young birds; meanwhile the mothers stood by without a tear or moan.”
        The culture of the Roman world was brutal and nasty. Ironically, we see its worst practices reviving with vigor. Please give us a moment as we recount a history seldom taught today’s students.

        The Roman Empire had a twisted view about the value of human life. These views were banished by the ascendency of Christ’s teaching. Infanticide was both legal and encouraged in ancient Rome. Pagan societies, such as the Carthaginians, Romans and Greeks went so far as to kill their children outside the womb, sometimes as a religious sacrifice to their gods. According to Plutarch, the Carthaginians “offered up their own children, and those who had no children would buy little ones from poor people and cut their throats as if they were so many lambs of young birds; meanwhile the mothers stood by without a tear or moan.”
        http://townhall.com/columnists/floydandmarybethbrown/2011/07/03/manning_the_barricades_for_virtue_and_america

        • Dan az

          Sorry for the echo like I said before my computer is constipated kinda like the libs here today!

          • Al Sieber

            You’re right Dan, and I second that. tomorrow is the most important in our history July 4 happy July 4 , let’s get our country back.

        • Al Sieber

          Oh! yeah, we are good example of the Roman Empire.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          You are right. And they reached a point where God had had enough of their evil, and he gave them over to their enemies. And like you and others, including myself have said before on these posts, “If we dont learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it”. We better start learning pretty quick, because we are repeating bad history that didnt fare well at all.

    • Crystal

      I agree, but I also disagree because it was John Adams who defending the British soldiers in court during the Boston Massacre Trials.

      • Crystal

        Sorry, “defended” not “defending.”

      • JC

        Which he was obligated to do, what with that event taking place “before” the Declaration of Independence. It might be said that he, himself was disgusted with that duty and that it helped him develop his resolve to fight back.

        • Mike in MI

          JC – Thanks for clarifying that.
          Interesting that John Adams while an agent of the crown was forced to perform what were to him very distasteful “obligations” on behalf of self-anesthetized agents of the state for an amoral despot. Wich despot considered himself to rule in the place of God by “Divine Right”. Yet, when challenged by a small bunch of committed believers his power melted like a warm ice cube.
          Not that he didn’t mount a fierce – even horrendous – campaign, ’cause
          he did. But the Patriots stood by their commitments, their guns and their God and prevailed.
          Happy birthday American troops everywhere – active duty, spouses and families, reserves, inactives, vets, national intelligence corps and patriots everywhere. May your tribe increase. Have a glorious Freedom Day.
          P.S. If you’re a Christian believer who continues in his word (John 8:30-31) as a “disciple indeed” you have a right to know the truth and to be free. But, like everything it’s conditional – not on God’s part (He’s done His part) but on our part. If you ever prayed for something to happen – that you knew was based on something of the New Testament – and didn’t see results find out if there is a conditon involved. Follow through and enjoy your results.

          • JC

            Mike, the one Founding Father who DID work as a traitor was Alexander Hamilton who was an agent of the Central bankers of the day, the same families that are working to control to this very day as a matter of fact. Read Hamilton’s Curse for some more insight.

            Aaron Burr shot him…but not soon enough.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            All in His time Mike, not ours. All in His time.

    • Vagabond

      yes beberoni it is very sad. when I was studying law the proffesor told us those of us who went on and finished would be proffesionaly trained LIARS. and he was so right. he forgot to mention theives as well,

    • DaveH

      They had good and bad lawyers then, Beberoni, as they have now. I doubt mankind will ever see an end to that unfortunate reality.
      Read the book “Hamilton’s Curse” by Thomas DiLorenzo to learn of one very bad person who was a lawyer.

  • bobbytob

    Great stuff,keep it coming.

  • Wayne937

    And we, the people, need to vote this Muslim Communist out of the White House. Maybe if we can get him out of there by 2012, we still might be able to salvave what we have left of this country. We need to get as many of the Indepentents on our side as possible. Of course if they would like to find a job, get the gasoline and groceries prices down they will vote against the Communist President. There are a few on this forum that is lost and will still vote for the Communist we have in the White House as they want the taxpayers to keep footing the bills for them.

    • Wayne937

      Sorry about the mispelling of words. I see them as soon as I make the post. I guess I had better get my eyes checked.

      • Old Henry

        Wayne:

        Remember that guns kill people and keyboards misspell words…

        • Wayne937

          Oh Henry, you are so funny. Thanks for a chuckle.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Its probably Bush’s fault Wayne.

        • JC

          And spoons made Oprah fat! ;)

          • Jana

            JC,
            Those stupid spoons. :D

    • Old Henry

      Actually Wayne the communist muslim Kenyan needs to be drug out of OUR White House in handcuffs, tried and hung from a gallows in Leavenworth.

      However, with the guttless bunch we have in Congress that will not happen.

      • Kate8

        Old H – Dragged out, yes; but taken to Gitmo, not Leavenworth.

    • Al Sieber

      No problem Wayne, it ain’t no big deal, I do the same.

  • C130 Gunship

    Unfortunately, we don’t have more than 4 or 5 men/women out of the 535 turds currently governing this nation with the same quality of character and content as the 57 men that signed the Declaration of Independence. Today, in some Federal Law Enforcement Agencies, the original 57 are considered terrorists. That’s how far we’ve traveled down the road to ruin.

    • Al Sieber

      I’ll second that Gunship.

    • Bleh

      It is truly pathetic.
      That is what happens when we do not teach our young the real history and meaning of our founding documents.

  • Frank Maynard

    Sir : Do not ever question my patriotism by handing me a ” would you sign ” question . To you Sir I ask , did you take an oath to ” Defend America against all enemies –foreign and domestic ” . I did . Do you have an Honorable Discharge from Americas military ? . I do . While a bunch of sissies had Mommy drive them to Canada I took an oath followed by one step forward . Do not question me . Question your friends and neighbors who can’t put down their remotes long enough to get their head out of the sand and see what is happening around them . They can no longer hide in Canada or even Mexico because sadly Americas neighbors are players in the ” New World Order ” scheme that is , even as I write this , slithering it’s way around the globe . Get those people to stand up for America . Obama is trying to seal Americas fate . Will these people help stop that . Question them . Frank in Vermont

    • Wayne937

      Frank, arn’t you in a Democratic State, or not? I was thinking that Vermont always voted for Democrats. Anyway, I agree with your post. I am glad to see you feel the same way as most of us on this forum. I personally don’t have anything against Democrats as I have a lot of good friends who are Democrats. The Democrats I am against are this so called Muslim Communist president, whom I do not acknowlege as a president, and the cronies who support all his Communistic views to destroy our nation. I just hope the folks wake up and see what it happening so they can make an intelligent decision on who to vote for. Some how we need to figure out how to get the folks turn off their daily soap operas and get them to watch a reputable news station so they can also make an intelligent decision who to vote for.

    • Vagabond

      right on Frank. I have a few HONORABLE discharges to my credit too. and I will still stand by my oath to defend this country against all enemys and especialy those within which we now have in abundance,

      • Old Henry

        Vagabond:

        If only we could get the spineless weasels in Congress who tookthat oath to do the same. That jug-eared communist Kenyan muslim would be on his way to a long drop on a short rope.

    • Old Henry

      Frank:

      What is your opinion of Little Dicky Turbin, Senator from IL, who compared our military people to Nazis, Communists and mass murders like Pol Pot? And he did that in June of 2005 ON THE FLOOR OF THE U.S. SENATE.

      The voters of IL then re-elected him in 2008.

      • Wayne937

        Old Henry, I would say those voters are either stupid, or they approve of what he said. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt, and say they are naive as they do not do any research, or know what there candidates are doing. I am being nice here Old Henry when I say this.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Not only that, little Dickie Turbin just told a bunch of illegal aliens, that one of them could probably be our president someday. Excuse me, does this turd know our constitution, or does he just not care?

    • Jim Cumber

      Rather than have their heads in the remote control, too many Americans suffer from recto-cranial inversion! Fortunately, an increasing number of Americans are waking up and removing their heads from their lower posteriors: may the trend continue! I agree we need more “jerked Quisling” (by the neck!) decorating DC lamp posts (I could name some candidates!): however, I sincerely doubt we will see such a sight anytime soon!

  • wandamurline

    Socialism works fine for a while, until everyone else decides that they no longer want to work to provide for the ones that don’t want to work…until the money runs out… and that doesn’t take long.

    • Wayne937

      Amen, Wanda.

    • JC

      Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. ~ Winston Churchill

      • Dons621

        JC Churchill had a way with words no doubt but action shows a man real persona. F.D.R. and Churchill connived to blockade of Japan to force Japan to strike, so F.D.R. could go back on his word “Our Boys Will Never Go To War”. We had the Japaneses code machine which was sent ever where except Hawaii. F.D.R. knew of the attack on Pearl Harbor hours before it happened. Conclusion F.D.R. and Churchill are RESPONSIBLE for the DEATH and DESTRUCTION at Pearl Harbor all for POLITICAL GAIN. I am tired of seeing the Churchill Quotes as if they are a symbolic of Greatness when they are mere babilings of a SNAKE.

        • JC

          Point taken. If in fact we looked into the background motives of every notable character in history, there would be no one and nothing worth quoting. So I present this and other quotes as “stand alone” examples of very noble ideas. :)

        • mark

          The World was lucky to have Churchill and FDR. Remember who was on the other side of the ledger: Hitler and Tojo. By the way there is no evidence that FDR knew of the Pearl Harbor attack beforehand. This is just an irrational conspiracy theory like that George W. Bush planned and/or knew about 9/11 ahead of time. Or that Barak Obama is a Muslim or was never born in Hawaii. Anyone can posit these crazy theories. But they all have one thing in common: a total lack of credible evidence.

          • Jim Cumber

            I take EXTREME exception to several of those statements! 1) a Dutch Military Attache recorded in his diary that US Naval Intelligence had tracked the Japanese, Pearl Harbor attack fleet all the way across the Pacific, and a tramp steamer also intercepted Japanese messages from that fleet, BEFORE the attack! 2) “There is no evidence that FDR knew of the Pearl Harbor attack beforehand.” FDR’s own son-in-law said otherwise, in a book about his “exploited father-in-law”. 3) “Or that Barak Obama is a Muslim” As one who studied the Middle East in college, from Muslim Instructors, the Obamanation IS at least a Muslim by “culture”: he consistently makes statements which NO Christian would EVER make (but a Muslim WOULD!) As one who has studied BOTH the Christian AND Muslim scriptures (I have copies of BOTH!) many of his Biblical quotes are dubious, but his quotes from the Qur’an are flawless, as is his command of the Arabic tongue! 4) or was never born in Hawaii.” According to Barack Hussein Obama, Senior’s own mother WHO WAS THERE FOR THE BIRTH, of our usurper “President”, he was born in Kenya, NOT Hawaii!

            “Anyone can posit these crazy theories. But they all have one thing in common: a total lack of credible evidence.” Try studying a little bit of credible HISTORY! “First person source” history, recorded by people who were ACTUALLY THERE! It requires a little EFFORT, but it IS possible!

          • JC

            mark, if you’re waiting for the mainstream media to tell what is and what isn’t true…what did and what didn’t really happen, you’ll be waiting a long time. But if you investigate all the suppressed information out there…you’ll find that most of your statement is simplistic and naieve.

        • DaveH

          Sequence of events that led up to Pearl Harbor:
          http://history-world.org/events_leading_to_the_japanese_a.htm

          One thing is for sure — it is a mistake to take the word of a politician too seriously.

        • Libertarian

          right on, Don! Look at the New Pearl Harbor in New York 10 years ago & see their methods have NOT changed! Research: “Operation Northwoods”, “Tonkin Bay Incident”, Iran-Contra, the C.O.G. principle and learn this Republic is not equal for all of us!

    • Patriot

      See Greece!

    • Bob Marshall

      What a perfect answer to sum it up.

    • Old Henry

      Right on Wanda.

      Socialism is just communism on the installment plan.

      • Libertarian

        Names, terms and labels are created for the Sheeple! The real difference among any of those is the Government’s involvement in OUR individual lives!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Until they run out of other peoples money.

  • Norman Taber

    Military reservist are trained and are on call to meet the nation’s needs. Fourteen years in a Signal unit with seven years of three day callup and seven years with first call up that did not include desert Storm was controlled by the presidents serving, even though some were not too smart. Ronald reagan yelled at the Russians to be able to give defense contracts to his supporters. The Russians were already beat if they attacked and the military knew it. We kept our mouths shut and the lies kept coming.

    NOW THE CORPORATIONS STILL WANT TO GET THEIR TAX REBATES AND TO HELL WITH THE ECONOMY. WE NEED TO PUT THOSE MALES THAT DO NOT GRADUATE INTO THE MILITARY FOR TRAINING AND FOR COMPLETING A GED. THESE MALES LEARN ENOUGH TO HACK COMPUTERS AND TO STEAL FROM OLD PEOPLE. TEACHING OF ACCOUNTING IN MIDDLE SCHOOL WOULD BE A WAKE UP CALL FOR THEM TO KNOW WHAT THE FUTURE IS GOING TO BE, SERVING PEOPLE TO EARN A LIVING.

    BEND OVER
    GRAB YOUR KNEES
    VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS

    • steve in AZ

      huh?

      Now WHO could argue with that?

      VOTE RON PAUL 2012!!!

      • Crystal

        Why, so everyone can walk around high all the time. Got enoungh of that crap now.

        • DaveH

          Are you an alcoholic, Crystal? Alcohol is legal.

        • DaveH

          Here’s some actual experience from Portugal:
          http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080

        • DaveH

          You’d best get used to it, Crystal:
          http://mises.org/daily/5427/Why-Legalize-Nowu

        • DaveH

          For the people who want to make sense out of all this, Drug Wars, War on Terror, think about this.
          1) Illegal Drugs kill about 17,000 people a year. Compare that to alcoholic beverages which kill about 85,000 people a year. Tobacco is blamed for 435,000 deaths a year.
          2) Terrorists have killed less than 4,000 people in the United States in the last ten years. Yet, our middle east wars are responsible for at least 100,000 deaths.
          So why do we have these “Wars”, which are far more costly in dollars and lives then the things they are “preventing”?
          I believe it is akin to peoples’ irrational fears of flying vs. automobiles. Many times more people are killed in auto accidents vs. airplane accidents, but we feel like we’re in control when we’re driving, unlike the loss of control we feel when we’re flying.
          I believe the true reason for Drug Wars and Wars on Terror is that the
          Leaders are playing on our irrational fears to increase their power and perks and to take away our Constitutional rights.

          • Void1972

            DaveH
            A special “Thank You” for all of your educational post.
            I have learned more from your post then any other on this site.

          • DaveH

            Thank you, Void, I appreciate that.

        • JC

          Crystal says:
          July 1, 2011 at 9:47 am
          Why, so everyone can walk around high all the time. Got enoungh of that crap now
          ______________________________________________________________

          Are you so naive that you don’t realize that the War on Drugs, like Gun Control is complete failure? Do you not “get” that it is about expanding the Police State and has “nothing” to do with justice or the betterment of society?
          Are you so “afraid” of Constitutional values that you actually buy into the crap doled out by “legalists”?

          Wake up Crystal.

        • DaveH

          Here is a Free online book that addresses the futility and costly (both in money and Freedom) results of the Drug Wars:
          http://mises.org/books/prohibition.pdf

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Actually Crystal, first of all, I havent smoked pot for almost 30 years now, because I am subject to drug screening for my job quite often, but are you aware, that alcohol is the worst drug out there, and it is totally legal. And Ill bet you use it on occasion. We pretty much all do. Yet Ive never seen someone smoke a joint and beat their wife, or their kids, or spend the mortgage money, or the food money. Or fight their best friend because they had a buzz on. Or steal from their friends or their parents. Or drive their car off the road and onto the sidewalk. But Ive seen alcohol do all of that and more, and quite often actually, not by me, but by people I know and by many I do not know. So come down off your high horse. There are a lot more dangerous things that someone getting high. One of them is uneducated people pulling a name in a voting booth. Millions pay for that dangerous deed.

      • Joan

        Ron Paul might be a great guy howeever he is not vote able

        • DaveH

          Unless we all wake up and vote for him.

        • JC

          Really? Why Not?
          He’s won every straw poll so far…but you’ll never hear it in the news.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Ron has failed to impress me the way I feel a candidate for president should impress a person, but however, he has not turned me off and made me shudder the way Obama and the democrats have, and the way some Republicans have. He seems to becoming more and more appealing to me, as these others guys continue to fall and be exposed for who they are. That is one thing we all need to be thankful about Obama and his administration for, they have totally exposed the left for the lepers that they are.

    • Libertarian

      Yes, but ONLY the real ones with no CFR connections!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0N0iqUiaTs – Ron Paul Exposes Neo Conservatives A.K.A. NEOCONS

      wake up!

  • http://aol.com sean murrey ILLInio

    I think i am brave when i went into the service to fight in viet nam a long time ago. i have an honorable discharge from the army.

    • Wayne937

      sean, now you need to be brave once again to help protect our country from witnin. We need everyone’s help to take out country back from the Communist Liberals who want to destroy our way of life. We all need to band together for the good of this country. We need to clean house in Washington D.C. doing the next election and we need help doing it. We need to vote in a president who will permit drilling in this country so we can wein ourselves off of expensive oil we are buying from the Muslim Countries such as OPEC. If we can get oil back down to a decent cost, we can keep our energy bills and grocery bill lower. Of course with high oil bills drive up the price on all goods, just not on oil and gasoline. We know when the large trucks delivers these good from the warehouse they need to charge more to recoup their money. This is passed along down to the consumer.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        That is something Ive been wondering about lately Wayne. I remember how the liberal left wing press used to constantly talk about the president needing to do something about these high oil prices. All the stinking time. But since Obama is president, Hmm, I havent heard them cry at all about the oil prices. Gee, I wonder why?

    • Joan

      Kudos I Thank you for you’re service.

  • Joe

    These men were our best and brightest of the time. The thing that is interesting is that none of them made their fortunes running the country, instead they made it in the private sector as it should be.
    They did what they believed was right and put their lives on the line for it but did not try to profit from their actions. We owe them a great deal and hopefully over the weekend we can take a little time to reflect on what they did and how millions around the world have benefited from it. I would hope that our leadership would do the same instead of just trying to line their pockets at every turn. Maybe this can be forwarded to all of our representatives that are holding office at every level. Today win or lose they end up rich as media stars, talk show hosts etc. We need and should ask for more from our leadership, we should demand it and when not given they should be run out of the public sector. Instead we celebrate them, lets not continue this it’s time for them and us to be accountable, they for their actions and behavior and us for supporting and allowing it.

    • Wayne937

      Joe, in fact we have demanded this from our leaders, but they won’t listen to us. 63 percent of the people did not want government run health car, but they still shoved it down our throats like we were little kids. These idiots that did this should lost their jobs. Yes! we need some one that will listen. We know that Communist Muslim Obama, and all his Democratic Zombies did not listen. Let’s kick them out of office and show them we mean business. I am sure we all would love to have lower gasoline prices, lower food prices, and lower unemployment rate. I will bet you right now, that if these same idiots who supports Obama get voted back in office again, you will see prices go up on everything by 50 percent of more within the next 4 years. If Communist Muslim Obama gets voted back in again for another 4 years he will know that he can do anything he wants the 2nd term as he will not have to worry about running for president again since he will already be in his 2nd term. This country will be absolutely ruined by the time he finishs up his 2nd term. This is what he is hoping for. He wants one more term to make that change he wants. This change is will be for Obama’s ideology, not for the American people. Let’s kick him and his cronies out of office next year.

      • DaveH

        The excess money is already in the pipeline. It is just a matter of time before it starts flowing and prices start increasing dramatically. By then, the propaganda media will be trying to convince people that it is Big Oil, or China, (or anything other than the truth) that is causing our prices to soar. The question is, are we going to buy that this time, like we did in the 1970s? Or are we going to put the blame squarely where it belongs — Big Government and the Federal Reserve?
        http://mises.org/daily/5223/Charting-the-Course-to-7-Gas

  • C. Raymond Rieckhoffsr

    I am an outspoken opponent of the current administration. I truly
    think they are trying to lead us down the road of socialism as President Obama lead us into Islamism. He favors the Black race
    with every decision that calls for a different decision. He will
    try to carry the next election no matter what fraudulent methods
    he has to use. He will continue to go against the will of the
    majority. He will over tax the wealthy including the rich people
    who helped him get elected like those celebrities who backed him,
    and the middle class which he claims to favor. We need to do everything we can to keep him from being elected for a second term or life as we know it in America is going to be gone forever.

    • Wayne937

      C. Raymond, I can’t believe every time I see him on tv he has such a large following. They applaud him after he speaks, and go wild. What is it with these people? Are they nuts, or what? I am beginning to think he has the power of Reverend Jones, the minister who took over a thousand people with him to Jonestown, Guyanna and forced them to commit suicide by drinking cyanide poison. The rest who refused to drink the poison were shot. Does he have this kind of power over the masses? I am beginning to think he does on some people. I doubt that a lot of folks who are voting today remembers Jonestown, Guyanna. People who believe in this Muslim Communist should visit this website, http://www.infoplease.com/spot/jonestown1.html and google other website looking for Jonestown, Guyanna. I am not saying that Obama would ever do anything like this. All I am saying is that he seems to have the power over so many people that they would be willing to do this is asked by Obama. I make my own decisions. I feel that Obama’s ideology is completely different than that of a true American who knows what America stands for.

      • Patriot

        Hey Wayne,

        This is a staged with his drone’s, there are always people that will drink the Kool-Aid to their own demise!

      • eddie47d

        Bringing up Rev Jones shows Wayne’s dark side and how he really feels. The signers of our Declaration were all wealthy yet had for the most part the whole nation at heart. They sacrificed for the good of the nation and were willing to die for it. Now all we have are corporates who only think of themselves and manipulate the marketplace to suit their needs. Some think we are sheep to their slaughter and they may be right. Those running for office today are looking for the “glory and prestige” they could gain. They only sacrifice for outside interests and the power that comes with it so it’s hard to find positive comparisons to our Founding Fathers.

        • libertytrain

          Were they wealthy or really hard working people that overcame the greatest of odds?

          • Jana

            eddie,
            Not only corporations, but unions too.

          • Kate8

            Some of them were wealthy, but lost it all in the Revolutionary effort, having given all of their money and property. It meant that much to them.

            How many of us would be willing to do that now?

            And eddie, Obama works for the corporations of which you speak.

        • JC

          Wow, eddie..I don’t know what to say.
          Not sure about the Jones reference, but the rest was an unusually coherent analysis coming from you.

        • Wayne937

          eddie47d, tell me how Rev. Jones had the power over that many people to convince, and lead them to drink cool aid laced wth Cyanide to commit suicide. This is why I don’t succumb to Muslim Obama like some of you do. Anyone with any sense at all can see that he is leading us down that long dark road to Communism and possibly for a Muslim take over. Sharia law, is this what you want eddie? If, so then you must be a Muslim. You and a few others are following him. Do you see how much power Obama has over you folks. I would feel the same way about Obama if he was a Republican. Obama is not a true Democrat. He is a Muslim that had to run on the Democratic ticket in order to get in power. This man will do anything for power. He thrives on it. Look how arrogant he is when he talks to people. He also is a very egotistical, selfish person. I agree with Charles Krauthammer when he wrote this article: http://www.mdjonline.com/view/full_story/14351478/article-Charles-Krauthammer–The-Obama-Administration-is-union-owned-and-operated?instance=special%20_coverage_right_column You go ahead and follow the Communist Muslims. I’ll continue to follow the path of the Republic that our Constitution laid down for us. Obama could not hold a candle to the 56 members who signed the Declaration of Independence. Look at what Obama did to the share holders and the bond holders of GM. Those folks lost the biggest part of their investment due to this Muslim Jerk. By law they should have been able to recoup their money first, but no, Obama made sure the unions got that money instead of the rightful owners. Shame on you eddie for upholding a man like this. Obama is a kind of man that he would do this to you if he could benefit from it. Use you head eddie, pull for an honest person to be put in the White House. We can then all benefit from it, not just the ones Obama likes, and the one who kisses his butt.

          • eddie47d

            Apparently I’m busted! Wayne is playing God and what God says is righteous. I can’t hide my Communist heritage any longer or my Sharia loving Muslim faith. If only we had confessionals like Catholics so I could redeem myself in a more appropriate manner. I have worthless guilt written all over my kool aid drenched face and am so happy you stopped me before I committed any more mass murders.There is no more delite in beating my wife according to my Muslim faith and my poor grand kids what are they going to do if I stop molesting them.So many of you have been wise in accusing us in being pedophiles and closet homosexuals. My morals are bankrupt and that cliff nearby is so inviting. Will you be the one to give me a push. When Pol Pot died I went into hysterics and am having a hard time recovering. I feel ashamed Wayne that I didn’t follow your guiding light for the bulb must have burnt out. How can this Liberal filth make it up to you? Before I go will you turn in those illegals hiding in my basement …so many sins and not enough time to repent. Another apology tour would just be too much for me so I am asking for forgiveness from you my master. Either that or I will have to consider you a complete and incompetent liar in all you said about me. Now if you don’t like my satire then tough patooties. Freedom of speech may give you the right to slander folks and libel them but it doesn’t mean we have to accept your cowardly comments!

      • DaveH

        Wayne,
        It appears to me that the Obama audiences have been carefully screened and sometimes they may even be given questions to ask so as not to embarrass him.

        • DaveH

          Here’s one that slipped through. You gotta love it:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgAmToi32yI

          • eddie47d

            , Dave just contradicted himself. It can’t be both ways just to please you.

          • Dan az

            eddie
            Why would you think that?The woman was clearly pissed that she wasted her vote and told him so.I am sure there were more but after that I doubt they that they were aloud to to speak.Do you know that they were or are you just trying to pick a fight with lack of facts again.I would of like to hear his explanation to her but it would just be another lie so why waste my time looking for it.

          • DaveH

            How does that contradict myself, Eddie? Drug screens don’t always catch druggies, do they? Obviously, if Obama knew what she was going to say, he wouldn’t have made such a point of addressing her. Probably, being the bigot that he is, he figured since she was black that she adored him.
            Are you honestly so naive that you think random crowds of people are not going to ask some tough questions? Yet you rarely see tough questions at Obama appearances. Why is that? Is he just lucky?

          • eddie47d

            First you state that questions to Obama are screened and the no one would dare ask an embarrassing one. The video proved that he will accept “embarrassing” questions and is man enough to listen and take it. Is this another one of you Breitbart moments where the video is cut off so we can’t see his response or all the facts. I forgot,that is how the right manipulates the message for their self serving needs. At least you’re consistent Dave.

          • DaveH

            Eddie,
            You really are dense aren’t you? If controls always worked, we wouldn’t need so much Government, would we?
            I guarantee that I would be able to get through their screening techniques if I wanted to be a decepticon like you Liberals. It’s not hard to act like a Liberal. Duh.

          • eddie47d

            Dave you are a manipulative old fool. Always playing double dare spin doctor.

        • Wayne937

          eddie47d, our Constitution was founded on Biblical Principles. These folks were a hell of a lot smarter than you are. If it had not been founded on these principles your Muslim type of government may be leading us now. I would hate to see all those nice looking girls having to wear the veil around their faces and a long dress all the way down to their ankles. Eddie, since you support a Muslim President, and his ideology, I’m sure you are a Muslim too. Do you really have to wear a turban wrapped around your head? Yes, eddie47d I believe in God, and I proud of that fact. Look around at some of the government buildings, even the Supreme Court Building, and you will see Biblical markings on most of these buildings. Since Muslims and Atheist don’t believe in God, let them find another place to lay there head. I belong here as I believe in the framers of the Constitution who also believed in God. My relatives had to fight and die for this country. Yes! I belong here, but I am not too sure you do.

          • eddie47d

            I know for a fact God doesn’t like a hateful,spiteful name calling manipulative self righteous indoctrinated hypocrites like you. Your viciousness overwhelms you and you will fall into the hands of the devil like so many others who are people of fear.

          • Jana

            wow eddie,
            What you said is true. It’s so easy to get frustrated and say something harsh on these posts.
            Maybe we all need to go look in the mirror. We have all seen you act out these very things too.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Its simple Wayne. There are really that many simple minded people who blindly follow leaders without looking into who they are, because they were brought up that way, and havent learned yet to think for themselves. And unfortunately, for some it gets to be too late before they wake up, like Jim Jones, David Koresh, and that Marshall guy’s followers, and many democrats are just like that. They are a democrat and they will vote democrat even if that democrat is in bed with foreign governments and owned by anti Americans like George Soros. There are really that many un-educated people out there Wayne. It is sad, but its true. Not all of us can be democrats, as some of us have to work to pay for their social handouts they receive. I mean, not all of us can be on welfare, food stamps, and unemployment. Thats the democrats job.

  • Mike

    The motto of Vermont “Live free or die” that is not socialist in any way!

    • Bleh

      That is New Hampshire’s moto. Vermont’s I think is “Freedom and Unity”

    • Wayne937

      Mike, I really didn’t know. This is why I asked. It seems like I have heard this some where. In fact I have a few friends up there, and they are all Democrats who voted for democrat Howard Dean when he ran for president. Dean was a Democratic Governor for 6 terms in Vermont. What would this leave one to believe? It seems like if you vote in a governor for 6 terms that the majority would have to be Democrats. If you want confirmation on Dean being a 6 term governor of Vermont you can check out this site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Dean

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I would love to take a vacation up to Vermont, Connecticut, and that area, its really beautiful up there. But I put my money where my mouth is, and as long as the liberals are rampant in running things there, I will not contribute to their economy. I wont do it. And from what Ive heard, their economy is struggling and they pay high tax bills in those states. I wonder if the people that live there know why yet?

    • Wayne937

      Well Mike it seems you made a mistake on Vermont’s Official Motto. It is as stated by the other folks “Freedom and Unity”, not “live Free Or Die”. Oh well, don’t feel bad we all make those mistakes. I make a lot of them. Thanks to the other folks who corrected Mike on this one.

  • sausagefingers

    “Live free or die” is the motto of new Hampshire not Vermont. It is on every NH license plate. I know because it is on my license plate. I would like thank you for a copy of They Signed For US. I will read it this weekend.

    • Bleh

      It is on mine as well :P

  • TML

    Would you be this brave?

    YES… I don’t even have to think about it. I would then, and I would now.

  • jopa

    According to Michelle Bachman, John Adams (9 years old at the time) also signed the Declaration of Independence that freed the slaves.He worked endlessly into the night and his name probably wasn’t mentioned as one of the men who signed because he was still a boy.

    • Wayne937

      Perfect Jopa does not make any mistakes. Jopa what is worse, Michele Bachman saying that, or Obama saying he had visited 57 states? Even little kids in the 3rd, and 4th grade would known this, but a Harvard Graduate does not? Come on Jopa, get real. Most people also know how to pronounce Corps, as core, and do not pronounce it like a dead person, corpse, like your president did. Oh yea, you can really be proud of you educated president. Think before you critize others, Jopa as it always comes back to bite you in the rear. Obama also has to be told what his religion is from time to time. I heard him tell George stephanopoulos of the ABC News that he was a Muslim twice on two different occassions. Of course, George had to correct him on this also. Yep! you can be very proud of your Muslim Obama.

    • Harry S.

      How do you know John Adams was 9 yrs. old – were you there? Maybe he was big for his age.

      There must be 57 states in the U.S. because Barak Obama said so. So there!

      • Harry S.

        Sorry, Wayne,
        My reply was meant for Jopa, who doesn’t know any better. Obviously you do.

        • Wayne937

          Yes Harry, I knew that you meant it for Jopa. No apology needed as you are correct in what you said. We Conservatives who love our country, and our families, all need to stick together to get the Muslim out of the White House.

      • Wayne937

        Harry, I believe we need to over look Jova. Everytime his mind engages he gets confused. It too bad that there is not some kind of medication to correct that kind of thing.

      • Bob Marshall

        Actually 58. He was having trouble remembering that last one.Apparently he knows something we don’t.

        • Wayne937

          Bob, I just wanted to give Obama the benefit of the doubt even though he does not do that for us. Thanks for the correction.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Yeah, and Obama was looking forward to visiting the other states. Good luck finding 49 thru 57. I wonder if he is still looking? What a joke. You know, Michelle Obama said it was the first time she was proud to be an American when old Barack got elected. Its the first time I was actually ashamed to be an American. Im sure glad its temporary.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear jopa,

      John Adams was born Oct.30, 1735. By my reckoning that made him 40 at the time the Declaration was signed. He was one of the five who drafted the Declaration and one of the 56 signers.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Wayne937

        Bob, good luck in getting Jopa to believe you. Anyone who believes in this so called president can’t believe in too much.

        • libertytrain

          Perhaps jopa was “googling” the wrong Adams. John Quincy Adams – the son of yep, you guessed it, was born in 1767….making him, yep, you guessed it,about 9. Jopa just didn’t “remember” there were two. How embarrassing for him in his attempt to cast a dark light on Ms. Bachmann he displayed his own ridiculous folly with a 4th of July Firecracker…

          • Jana

            jopa,
            See how easy it is to make a mistake? Maybe now you won’t be so judgemental.

          • Wayne937

            Libertytrain, if this is the case, why doesn’t Jopa come back and make an apology for making such a blunder. I guess his type are too good to apologize for makeing mistakes. Or is he too embarrassed? He probably slithered back under his rock, and will stay there for a while. He is also making a big mistake for supporting Obama as well, but he does not see this one yet.

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, you can bet he didn’t check it and took that info straight from the leftist source(s) hellbent on bashing Bachmann just as they do anyone that poses a threat to their rule. Mark my words, tey will ignore Paul, Bachmann and Johnson and fawn and feather over Romney as the man to run on the GOP ticket.

          • libertytrain

            I was surprised someone that purports to be so keenly aware of this United States and has all the answers for us has so little awareness of its history.

      • Vagabond

        thanks Bob for getting the message across to jopa. but he is probaly still trying to under stand it. he is like so many other of the leftwing NUTS trying to discredit MICHELE AND SARAH.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        The Adams were the first father and son presidents.

        http://www.barefootsworld.net/doi1776.html

      • r.p.

        Dear Bob:
        The reference made by Michelle Bachman was about John Quincy Adams, the son of John Adams. She referred to John Quincy Adams as one of the founding Fathers who signed the Declaration Of Independence. I saw this on CNN and MSMBC. on or around June 26th. That was not long after her statement about John Wayne’s birth place, which was also wrong. Jon Stewart did a bit about it on June 28th or 29th on the Jon Stewart Show (very funny). It was from Jon who I first heard that John Quincy Adams was only 9 years old at the time of the signing of the DOI. Seems like Michelle, (like many ladies of the night) gets her “Johns” confused.
        Yours in good times and bad: R.P.

        • r.p.

          By the way….Thanks for the Book-let.

          • April

            r.p. and Jana
            I noticed your conversation below about John Wayne. I see your source is wikapedia (not always a reliable source btw). Well I have the book right here in front of me, “John Wayne and the Man Behind the Myth” by Michael Munn. And on page 8, I quote,

            “Just a few years after Clyde’s (John Wayne’s Father) birth in 1884, his family moved to Iowa where he grew up and served an apprenticeship as a pharmacist in Waterloo. It was there that he met Molly(John Wayne’s Mother), who worked as a telephone operator. They were married on 29 September 1906, just 8 months before Marion(John Wayne) was born… By the time Marion came into the world, Clyde was working as a pharmacist’s clerk at a dugstore in Winterset.”

            The book explains further that John Wayne’s actual given name at birth was Marion Robert Morrison, then changed to his Grandpa’s name Marion Mitchel Morrison. Years later he preferred and used the name Marion Michael Morrison. And when he became famous he used his now stage name John Wayne.

            These are the facts. And the town of Waterloo claims John Wayne as their own.
            Michelle Bachmann may make a few mistakes here or there as we all do. But not about John Wayne and Waterloo. And she has not made a fraction of the mistakes as the pretender in chief has. She is more knowlegable and is far more qualified than O could ever imagine to be. For every mistake Michelle Bachmann makes you can probably find at least 20 that Obama has made.

          • Jana

            April,
            Thank you for letting us know the truth about all of this.

          • r.p.

            Dear Jana & April:
            And so it goes. If you bothered to read my post, you would have seen that I provided more sources for my information than Wickepedia. I may not be an expert at investigations, but I know enough to make cross references. Most of my information was retrieved by this process. Thus the information I provided you was from sources that provided their information through county records, marriage, birth and death certificates. I understand the problem with Wickepedia as the subscribers can edit the information provided therein. That’s why I used it as a cross reference only. The information I provided was not just from Wikepedia. If you had gone there you would have known this. I didn’t just use the “American Spectator”, which by the way provided no source for the information they provided, nor did I use an unauthorized autobiography for my source. No where was there any confirmation of the Morrison family living in Waterloo. And YES, John,s birth name was “Marion Robert” as I stated previously, and later changed to “Marion Mitchell” when he was 4 years old, when His younger brother “Robert” was born. At 9 years of age he had a dog named “Duke”, which followed him everywhere. His father lovingly called them “Duke and Little Duke”, he preferred that name for the rest of his life. It was when he met John Ford that he changed his name to John Wayne. By the way, John Wayne Gacey was born in Waterloo. To call him a “serial killer”, is to put it mildly . He was a “cannibalistic child molester/killer/butcher”, cut from the same cloth as Hannibal Lechter.
            Now, I’m not going to claim this as the “Truth”, but I believe my sources are more reliable than those the two of you provided.

          • libertytrain

            this is why there is no peace on earth – “my source is right yours is wrong” and this over absolutely nothing of any importance.

          • r.p.

            That is unless you go to the source and ask the horse of course.

        • libertytrain

          As did Jopa, he did not state which Adams -

          • Jana

            rp,
            As well as John Wayne’s parents were from Waterloo. The town probably claimed John Wayne all along so it might have been an easy mistake.
            By the way, who do you suppose John Wayne Gacy was named after.
            Think real hard now. It just might be a trick question! Think -think.
            Can you guess?

          • r.p.

            Jana:
            There you go, making assumptions again:
            Clyde Leonard Morrison (Marion Mitchell’s father), was born in Warren, Illinois 20 Aug 1884. Died 4 Mar 1937 in Los Angeles County, California, at 52 years of age.
            He married Mary Alberta Brown in Knoxville, Marion, Iowa, 29 Sep 1905. Mary was born in Lincoln, Nebraska ca 1885. Mary was the daughter of Robert Emmet Brown and Margaret. Mary died aft 1930 in prob. Los Angeles County, California.(6)

            Clyde Leonard Morrison and Mary Alberta Brown had the following child:

            + 1 i. John1 Wayne Born Marion Robert Morrison
            May 26, 1907(1907-05-26)
            Winterset, Iowa, U.S.
            Died June 11, 1979(1979-06-11) (aged 72)
            Los Angeles, California, U.S.

            I don’t see how Waterloo can even remotely claim the “Duke” as one of their city’s sons. Unfortunately they cannot disclaim “John Wayne Gacey” as one of their city’s sons. Maybe you should think before you post.
            r.p.

          • Jana

            rp,
            I wasn’t making assumption. I got this off the net.
            ***********************************************

            Topic: John Wayne’s Parents Lived in Waterloo, Iowa
            Posted: 30 June 2011 at 4:45pm

            John Wayne’s Parents Lived in Waterloo, Iowa
            So.
            Once again.
            Michele Bachmann says “John Wayne was from Waterloo, Iowa” and the media goes nuts. Ohhhhhhhh what an idiot, she confused John Wayne with John Wayne Gacy the serial killer. Ha ha ha.
            Now comes word that… yes indeed… Clyde Morrison and his blushing bride Molly got married in…. Waterloo, Iowa. And settled there.
            Later moving to Winterset, Iowa. Where they had their bouncing baby boy Marion.
            Who grew up to become — yes indeed — John Wayne.
            Not John Wayne Gacy.
            John Wayne.
            ****************

            Since however I can’t prove it you may be right on this particualr piece of information. Shock.
            However you were proven wrong on the rest.

          • r.p.

            Dear Jana:
            Clyde and Mary were wed in Knoxville, Iowa, which at that time it was in Marion County, approximately 35 miles S.E. of Des Moines. They lived in Winterset where Clyde had a Pharmacy, approximately 30 miles S.W. of Des Moines. Do you think maybe, that is why their first born was named Marion?
            Apparently you don’t know how to use your search engine. Try “geneology.com” “JohnWayne.com” and “Wikepedia.org” for starters. Where did you get your source from? Oh yeah, “The American Spectacle”! I.m sure they got their source from their bosses over at the MSM. Do your research, I am not wrong.

          • Jana

            rp,
            I did use my search engines, thats why I told you I couldn’t prove what the others were saying was true. So mia culpa.

          • r.p.

            Dear Jana:
            I give you the sources and still you refuse to look for yourself. So, I dont think you do know.

          • Jana

            rp,
            ….and you obviously can’t read or comprehend what you are reading, but that is par for the course.

          • Jana

            rp,
            Did you by any chance read the post above by April???
            She cleared things up nicely. The internet doesn’t always have everything and it shows that what I had read at first was right. His parents were from Waterloo.
            Maybe we ought to be depending on the actual written word (books for rp) instead of going to public searches that don’t get into a lot of details.

        • Wayne937

          Wow! Jon Stewart!!!!!! Now he ia one good Conservative. Ha, ha, ha.

      • Dan az

        Bob Livingston
        Thanks so much for the book.I have never read anything on this before today.Only the history books that left out the meat of every thing and call it a history book.It’s funny that at such a late age I would be so interested in politics now and the history of how we became such a great nation.I guess its because of the destruction of it by the muslim that invades our White House.I just couldn’t believe that anyone with a mind would vote for known muslim after being attack supposedly muslim terrorist.
        If it weren’t for this site I wouldn’t even have the opportunity to understand the logic of a liberal or progressive and because of your site I now understand that there really are people that are that stupid.Thanks again for the book I’ll be sharing it with allot of people that I know need to read it.

        • Dan az

          Chip
          I opologize I should of looked to see who wrote this.Sorry Bob L Chip just one upped ya and he’s the man now.Can you do him one better? :)

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Hey jopa, where is your comeback? I want you to deal with the truth. You do understand the truth dont you? I want to see you counter the truth. Come on now, lets see what you got. Its only the truth, so dont be afraid of it. Step up son.

    • JC

      jopa says:
      July 1, 2011 at 8:50 am
      According to Michelle Bachman, John Adams (9 years old at the time) also signed the Declaration of Independence that freed the slaves.He worked endlessly into the night and his name probably wasn’t mentioned as one of the men who signed because he was still a boy.
      __________________________________________________________________

      Dear Jopa,
      You provide no reference to Michelle Bachman ever having said any such thing…
      And you are still a spoon fed moron.
      Have a nice day trying to match your socks.

      • Curt

        JC,

        I think the others here misunderstood what jopa was saying. I do not think jopa was saying he believed that Adams was only 9 yrs old. I do not think that the Founders would have allowed a child to sign such an important document. I could be mistaken, I am human after all. But I agree with you that jopa provided no evidence.

        • libertytrain

          Jopa said: “He worked endlessly into the night and his name probably wasn’t mentioned as one of the men who signed because he was still a boy.”
          —- Unfortunately he did say he was just a boy, however, his history knowledge is sorely lacking – he apparently forgot that there was John Adams and his son, who was about 9 at the time of the signing, John Quincy Adams. In his haste to correct what he thought due to his lack of knowing the history of this country was an error, he created a larger error. How embarrassed he should be feeling about now.

        • JC

          Yeah Curt, I get that. Thing is Jopa is an unabashed statist/communist and uses any and every opportunity to twist and distort even the simplest of American founding principles.
          I never cut a Commie any slack and if it were possible I would like to see an open season on them. ;)

      • DaveH

        Here it is JC:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shbiQMMLc3s

        But only a Liberal, such as Stephanopoulos, would make an issue of such.
        As if any Presidential Candidate knows, or would acknowledge, the truth about the founding of our country in any kind of detail. To do so would be to admit that the Federal Government has been running roughshod over the Constitution for more than 150 years.

        I’d love to see Stephanopoulos present such questions to 57-States Obama.

        • JC

          Or to “I’ll stand with the Muslims – Obama”?

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I wish Obama would take up residence in the 56th state, that way he would be out of our hair.

  • sylviam

    I wish to THANK the VETS. on this thread as well as ALL IN THE WORLD, who are fighting now hopefully they get to come back to A HOME, not a MUSLIM or SOCIALIST country called the US.
    Stand tall dear PATRIOTS, its an HONOR just to write this to YOU.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA

    • Wayne937

      sylviam, I second that. I also give thanks to all the present, and past veterans who have fought for this country. It is such a shame that Obama is trying to negate all the freedom that our military has fought and died for.

      • Dan az

        Wayne
        The only thing that he has said,And it makes sense is that all of us that fought for the country should stop whining no body forced you to join.And BTW you are all now known terrorist and are a threat to him.

  • Harry S.

    That was before Political Correctness and so-called “Diversity “/

  • ONTIME

    “Never have so few done so much for so many.”….WC

    The more you know about these men who signed the Declaration of Independence, the more you come to know the honor and the tribute attributed to this act of courage was by far one of the worlds most historically deserved honors…..This nation will be forever grateful.

    • Wayne937

      ONTIME, this was worth dying for back then, and I feel it should be worth dying for today. We can’t let this nation go back beyond 1776 when we were under the rule of the British Empire.

  • http://1776 g.Bush

    yes our country is in alot of trouble,but both party’s have been compermised.so it doesnt matter who gets in(except Ron Paul)they all work for the dark side.America is a sinking ship.dont get me wrong i want our REPUBLIC back,but their is a agenda to take our home land down and unless we the people dont band togeather in every 50 states we are toast. now every one go and celabrate the 4th of july it may be our last.

    • Wayne937

      g. Bush, I believe that we have a lot more folks backing us than they do. I think the military would even come to our aid if it ever comes down to the nitty gritty. If so few of the old folks back in 1776 took on an empire like Britan, I think we have the number on our favor to take on the few in D.C. who want to destroy our way of life.

      • Crystal

        I have to agree.

      • Vagabond

        Wayn if those people in the military live up to the oath I and all of the rest took every time I reenlisted they will stand with the rest of us. the oath I swore to said foreign and domestic enemy. well my friend we have quite a few domestic enemies in washington right now,

        • Wayne937

          Vagabond, you are so right. Thanks for explaining it so well. Foreign and domestic. I think right now we have to be prepared for our domestic enemies as I can see it coming from within our own government. Let’s pray the military will come to our aid if it ever comes to that.

        • DaveH

          You also swore to obey the orders of the President of the United States:
          http://www.history.army.mil/html/faq/oaths.html

          • DaveH

            Bottom line, most of the military will obey whoever hands them their paychecks, and though it is really we the taxpayers, the recipients don’t see it as such.

          • Dan az

            Thats the thing about command in the military is if there is a commander that is breaking the laws and not following his oath of office it is up the military to relieve him of his post.I know for a FACT that there are companies of soldiers out there that flat refuse to believe that he is our commander and chief.Until that is proven then they are not going to continue their service.They have been asked if they or any of them would take up arms against civilians in this country and they just laughed and said that there is know way that would happen and for the few that would,would be taking care of immediately.That’s why he has to have a civilian army and are supposed to be trained and armed as well as our military.He knows it but what he forgets is that these gang bangers do not follow orders and would be under the UN direction.The other thing that he forgets is that each state has its own armory,missiles included and the know how to use them.This is not going to go down like the old days it will be high tech.

          • DaveH

            Okay. Let’s see what those who think the soldiers take their Constitutional Oath seriously have to say about the contradiction of the UnConstitutional War in Libya. Before you comment, read this:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

          • Dan az

            Point being is that he must be proven that he is the prez first!Other wise he is nothing but a muslim that has infiltrated the White House.But what I did see was that Andrew Johnson was the first to be impeached and again nothing happened to him just like clinton so Impeachment is not the way to go treason charges are!We already had one lt col.refuse orders and we saw where that got him and the fact that a plane load of generals during clinton’s time was on there way to relieve him from duty but didn’t make it when their plane mysteriously crashed no one survived.No one said it would be easy but it does need to be done!

      • Patriot

        Wayne I agree, unless they (our leaders) recruit illegals into our military that have no allegiance to our principles and the core values of the country. Beware of the enemy within!

        • Wayne937

          Patriot and Vagabond, I know exactly how you both feel. There were 6 boys in my family. We all served in the military. I served in the Air Force from 1956 to 1960. My oldest brother went to Germany in 1942. He fought in the battle of the Bulge, and served until the duration of WW2. He then served two 13 months tours in Korea during the Korean War. He served his 13 months tour, came back to the states, and volunteered for another 13 months tour doing the war. I would say that took some guts to serve two tours when he did not have to. I guess it is different today. My brother told me that Korea was very cold, and had lots of snow while he was fighting there. I also knew some folks from my home town that lost some fingers and toes due to frost bite doing the Korean War.

        • Curt

          Patriot,

          Just saw where Obama wants to allow the illegals to enlist in our military in exchange for citizenship. It is called the DREAM Act. Look for it here on Personal Liberty News. If that is allowed, we will be hit by a very large military force dedicated to Obama and the Muslim Brotherhood government. Hope everyone is stockpiling ammo and practicing marksmanship.

          • eddie47d

            Gotta love the fear and questionable remarks from Curt. That is why many Americans won’t follow your side because of all the wishful thinking without facts to back it up. There is no Muslim Brotherhood conspiracy in the USA and you look foolish in saying so.

          • Curt

            eddie,

            So, the fact that Obama plans to meet with the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood, when there is no other benefit except to gain support from them, means nothing? Laura Ingram reported last night of his plans to meet with them. So, is Ingram foolish as well?

            Yup, that makes me look and sound foolish.

          • Curt

            My bad. I spelled her last name wrong…it is in fact Ingraham.

          • eddie47d

            He can meet with anyone he wants to if they hold any semblance of power in a country. The M.B. only represents 20% of Egyptians but do have some sway. This may be an opportunity to tone them down after all those years of being persecuted by Mubarak. The M.B. also caused trouble so they better be willing to stand down or they may gain nothing.

          • JeffH

            Curt, don’t you know by now that eddie knows everything and isn’t required to present even a hint of fact? He’s such a hypocrit!

            The only thing worse than a liar is a liar that’s also a hypocrite!
            ~Tennessee Williams

          • JC

            Curt, here’s a little video from those fun loving Libyan Rebels that Hillary is so anxious to imbue with “democracy” and financed by the American Taxpayer. The Religion of Peace(?) in action:

            http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2011/07/01/arab-spring-libyan-rebels-brutally-execute-a-man-in-benghazi-video/

          • eddie47d

            As I have said before Jeff I don’t need right wing rhetoric or their plotted information on the web to inform people. I would love for you to think for yourself. Search the web but come up with your own thoughts instead of prescripted formats. You are always letting others form your view of life and you try to present yourself as having a brilliant mind . Yet it is always the thoughts of others.

          • Dan az

            Really Eddie?
            * Name Calling
            * Glittering Generalities
            * Transfer
            * Testimonial
            * Plain Folks
            * Card Stacking
            * Band Wagon

            These techniques are designed to fool us because the appeal to our emotions rather than to our reason.The techniques identified by the Institute for Propaganda Analysis are further refined by Aaron Delwich in his website, Propaganda where he “discusses various propaganda techniques, provides contemporary examples of their use, and proposes strategies of mental self-defense.” By pointing out these techniques, we hope to join with others who have written on this topic to create awareness and encourage serious consideration of the influence of contemporary propaganda directed at us through the various media and suggest ways to guard against its influence on our lives.

          • Dan az

            You see eddie whith out facts you have nothing just like Angel says nothing at all.
            Testimonial: Propagandists use this technique to associate a respected person or someone with experience to endorse a product or cause by giving it their stamp of approval hoping that the intended audience will follow their example. The Institute for Propaganda Analysis suggests we ask ourselves the following question when confronted with this technique. Who is quoted in the testimonial? Why should we regard this person as an expert or trust their testimony? Is there merit to the idea or product without the testimony? You can guard yourself against this technique by demonstrating that the person giving the testimonial is not a recognized authority, prove they have an agenda or vested interest, or show there is disagreement by other experts.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Damn eddie. He provides facts to show what is what, and you reject that and attack him. Wake up dude.

        • Jana

          Dan Az,
          Exactly, and most of the actors and actresses that get out and campaign for people like Obama and his ilk are a joke. They expect just because they PLAY some heor on screen, that they should be considered heroes in real life.
          These people are pretenders. Then you read about their own real lives and they are so messed up, some are depressed, some flit to one person and then another, because they can’t commit, but they want to tell us how to live.
          When a famous person tries to tell me how to live or how to vote, then this is a good indication that I should go just the opposite way.

      • DaveH

        We can see by the large diversity of opinion here on a “liberty” web site, that it isn’t going to be so cut and dry. Most of us have been so heavily propagandized over the years by public schools and the MSM, that most of us don’t even understand the concept of Freedom anymore.

        • Dan az

          Dave I have to agree with you,I was one of those that was forced to go through the gubmnt indoctrination camps but I had enough common sense to see through it.So there is hope that there are more and they are awake now.But then again you have special ed diee that only went there for lunch,if it were for free.I always thought that know one could be that dense and they must be here to disrupt the thoughts and mislead them for money.but I think I’m wrong on that one, there is a consensus that he has had brain damage early in life.

        • JC

          Dave, I was speaking with a Canadian Gun Dealer today who lived 15 years in the south. He said exactly the same thing.

  • Crystal

    A lot of individuals say they would, but in reality they’ll sit back and let things continue to build up until they say “Wow, something needs to be done about that!” Then they sit back down and light another joint.

  • Bert Cundle

    FREEDOM has its PRICE! Respect the “RIGHTS” of others!

    • Wayne937

      Respect the rights of others only when they quit wanting to tear down our Republic, Bert. There are a few people out there I do not respect. I do not respect Muslim Obama, or his Democratic Zombies who want to change our Republic to a Communist Country. I remember about 20 or even 30 years ago, they were showing how empty the grocery store shelves were in Comnmunist Russia. At that time I thinking to myself how sorry I felt for the Russian People. I don’t forget things that easily, Bert. Communism takes the will away from good people do work since they have to give most of it to the government to pass out to a lot of lazy abled bodied people who refuses to work. Anyone who thinks Communism, or Socialism, is the answer, needs their heads examined. When I pay taxes I don’t want the government to use it to pay for some lazy bum who is an alcoholic, or a burned out druggies to get my tax dollar. I didn’t assist them in getting in this shape. I believe our crooked government has helped them get this way by giving them free handouts. It is just like getting rid of drugs. We will never get rid of any kind of drugs as too many influencial people are making money on destroying the lives of our young children.
      This is so sad.

      • Bert Cundle

        Add: Income Tax Paid Each Year. Fed. $
        ” ” ” ” ” State. $
        ” ” ” ” ” Local. $
        Sales ” ” ” ” $
        Exise ” ” ” ” $
        Tax on interest ” ” ” $______________

        Subtract from Income: $______________
        = $______________
        ? % is it.

        When I was in Hi School The Teachers Tought us that, the Russians gave 50% of their income to thrir Government.
        I checked mine a while back; to find that I was Paing 57%…

  • Bob Marshall

    Since more battles and skirmishes were fought here in the State of South Caroilna than all the other colonies combined we have a hero we are proud to mention. His name was John Nuckolls and a member of the Whig Party. They wanted to be free from English rule.Half of South Carolina was loyal to England and the other half wanted independence. John knew he was a marked man. One night some loyalist came to his house and took him away. He knew what was going to happen so he asked if he could pray to his God.They said yes if you hurry. While he was praying one of the men said we could be here all night if he doesn’t stop praying so he shot him throught the head with a ball. Later this man met the same fate by members of the Whig party. There are many stories of Patriotism. This is just one.

    • Wayne937

      John the “Battle of Gettysburg”, also took a lot of lives for being only a three day battle. As I recall there were around 80,000 of Lee’s men, Army of Northern Virginia, and there were around a 100.000 men for the Northern Army that fought there. I live near Gettysburg and drive through the battle field frequently. That was undoubtedly a terrible war with relatives fighting against each other. I hope it stays in history, and never occurs again.

  • Old Henry

    Thanks for the history lesson Chip.

    Indeed, how many of us today would do the same?

    Hopefully we will be ringing church bells at noon on January 20, 2013 to celebrate our release from tyranny.

  • Bert Cundle

    INDIPENDANCE DAY Sellabration (celibration) Was not only, for Independance from England… But Independance From All other Countries! Italy, Spain, “MEXICO” etc.

  • GunbearerM1G

    I served in the U.S. Navy. When it came time for me to re-enlist, I made sure that my re-enlistment contract read United States Navy and NOT the United Nations Navy. I’m retired from the military but my obligation to defend this nation from all enemies foreign and domestic and support and defend the Constitution never goes away.

    • JC

      Much appreciated Gynbearer,
      Mean while, NATO is staging in Morocco for the emminebt invasion of Libys…in Obama’s “Kinetic Military Action” to take control of yet another nation not yet under control of the Globalists.

    • JC

      Yeah, I can actually spell those words! LOL

  • chuckb

    jopa, to all you nay sayers, what michelle bachmann said was right about the founding fathers trying to end slavery. jefferson in 1784 advocated sending the slaves back to africa, a society was formed in 1816, jefferson, a nephew of washington was the first president of the society it consisted of hundreds of slave holders like jefferson, clay and randolph. i believe lincoln belonged to this society.
    this must be terrible news for bleeding heart liberals.
    the society failed in it’s attempt, the blacks were breeding faster than they could build ships to transport them.

    • JC

      Not to mention that the Constitution of the Confederate states also mandated the abolition of slavery.
      The Libbies don’t have any real ammunition at all…any time…anywhere…

      • DaveH

        The Confederate Constitution. Make sure you read the header first:
        http://www.civilwarhome.com/csconstitution.htm

        • JC

          I may have to stand corrected. I see that the CSA was to ban all further importation of slaves, but that seems to be where it ends.

          • DaveH

            One of the main reasons for the South to secede was their experience with the North trampling State Sovereignty with an out-of-control Federal Government. The Southern Constitution had that in mind when they took out the “Welfare clause” which was used by double-speaking lawyers to circumvent the original intent of the Constitution. So, understandably they weren’t about to tell their Sovereign states what to do. But, as evidenced in Article I, Section 9, they did appear to be moving in the direction of eliminating slavery.

          • Vigilant

            Read the WHOLE CSA constitution and you’ll get the true lowdown. The South wanted to perpetuate slavery. Hell, they seceded over it (1856 Democratic Party Platform).

            Read Article 4, section 2 of the CSA constitution, as follows:

            “The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.”

            “In all such [new] territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.”

            Yeah, that really sounds like they wanted to do away with slavery.

            Artcle 1, section 9 says NOTHING about limiting slavery, only importation from outside the CSA, something the REAL Constitution
            had already prohibited. On the contrary, slavery would be expanded in even MORE states as a result of bringing in new states formed from the territories.

          • DaveH

            For those who want to know the real truth, not Vigilant’s version of it, read “Lincoln Unmasked” by Thomas DiLorenzo.
            Deprogram yourselves.

          • DaveH

            Okay, now I sit back and wait for Vigilant’s personal attacks and lies about my slavery stance.
            Just read the book, folks, and learn what Vigilant doesn’t want you to learn.

          • DaveH

            Thomas DiLorenzo on the Church of Lincoln:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbFty9nZUac&feature=related

          • DaveH

            Judge Napolitano’s take on Lincoln:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CwkG2C5sAc

          • DaveH
          • Vigilant

            My version of the truth? If you care to check it, I quoted directly from the CSA constitution. Are you going to deny the truth of those articles and sections? I didn’t write them, the CSA framers did!

          • DaveH

            Anybody who wants to learn Vigilant’s way of thinking can just go here:
            And follow our threads:
            http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/civil-liberty/blacks-picket-the-naacp/?eiid=&rmid=2011_06_17_PLA_%5BP11474746%5D&rrid=394921490

            You can also learn what the meaning of Is Is, or at least Vigilant’s version of that phrase. This is, his circuitous argument about the meaning of “apologist” in order to avoid answering my question about where is the proof for his slanderous and dishonest accusation that I and DiLorenzo are “apologists for slavery”

            I am not going to debate this issue further with him, because that horse has already been flogged to death. And I am tired of putting up with his mental abuse.

            If you keep pestering me, Vigilant, I will keep posting links to your past comments where you did your best to behave like an adolescent and personally attack me instead of sticking to the facts. Your call.

          • JC

            Yes Vigilant, you did quote directly.
            And without any further analysis I would have to agree with you.
            But we might take a couple of things into account…

            When the Founders were contemplating the original Constitution they were wrestling with the same problem. Should they, or should they not include the abolition of slavery was their issue.
            In order to get the support of every possible state in the War of Independence, they decided that it was a hot potato issue and something to be dealt with at a later date.

            The same might be said of the writers of the Constitution of the CSA who were facing exactly the same conundrum. That they did ban all further importation of Africans for the purpose of slavery could well be an indication that they too had abolition in mind…at a later date.

            Why ban importation if you intend to keep up the practice over the long run?

          • Vigilant

            JC,

            Thank you for reading the passages I quoted.

            Your take on the “hot potato” issue of slavery for the Founders is absolutely correct. They knew that outright abolition of slavery would never be acceptable to the southern Founders, so they compromised and put off the issue for resolution at a later date. The Union would never have been formed without the 3/5 compromise, the fugitive slave provision and the classification of slaves as “property.”

            I think they expected that future leaders would work to resolve the differences, but also feared the conflagration that ultimately ensued. By some reckonings, it’s a miracle the Civil War didn’t occur earlier in history than it did. The South’s economy was built around “King Cotton,” and slavery was the only way it could be supported. It was not about to give it up easily.

            Southern slaveholders, like everyone else, knew that the institution would necessarily die out eventually. As for importation, it was largely unnecessary because they had millions of “seed” slaves to increase their domestic population.

            Nonetheless, there’s some indication that the South had violated the Constitution by continuing the African slave trade on the sly. The 9th plank of the 1860 Republican platform says:

            ” That we brand the recent re-opening of the African slave-trade, under the cover of our national flag, aided by perversions of judicial power, as a crime against humanity and a burning shame to our country and age; and we call upon Congress to take prompt and efficient measures for the total and final suppression of that execrable traffic.”

          • DaveH

            More for people who want to learn about the real motivations behind “Honest” Abe’s political maneuvering:
            http://mises.org/mobile/daily.aspx?Id=2621

          • DaveH

            You can count of Vigilant to stretch things completely out of proportion to make his point. If you read my comment, I said it “appeared” that they were moving away from slavery, but Vigilant, being the fortune-teller that he is, can tell us what was going to happen to the South in the years ahead. Nobody knows what might have happened, not me, not Vigilant.
            And the whole debate in the first place was based on what Lincoln’s real motivations were, but Vigilant, in his intense desire to win has diverted the debate to the Slavery issue. Many of the Southerners were slaveholders, but don’t let people like Vigilant fool you, as many of the Northerners were also. Lincoln’s motivation for launching a war against the Southern states was purely political and economical. The North wanted the Southern tax base. If Lincoln’s real motivation was to end Slavery, he would have started with his own coalition first, like any non-hypocrite would do.
            Map of Northern and Southern states including Northern Slave states (light blue):
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USA_Map_1864_including_Civil_War_Divisions.png

            I don’t bother answering many of Vigilant’s comments, because they’re non sequiturs. And I grow weary of responding to every one of his circuitous arguments. And when I do answer, it sure isn’t to change Vigilant’s mind. That would be a waste of my time.
            But I do hope that the casual readers will take the time to read the books, read the linked-to articles, or otherwise educate themselves to the reality that we have all been severely propagandized by the Big Government advocates who fear that the citizens might learn the kind of Freedom and Prosperity that Jefferson’s ideals of Limited Central Government can bring to this country.
            The Leaders rather like their positions of power over us. Let’s change that and shrink Government (especially the Federal Government) back to the size intended by wise men such as Thomas Jefferson and James Madison.

        • r.p.

          Excellent information you gave there Dave. Keep it up. It is evidence they were trying to eliminate the “slave issue” but it didn’t go far enough.

          • DaveH

            In Europe, slavery died a peaceful death. Before our own Civil War, European governments and others were ending slavery peacefully by compensating the slave owners for their loss.
            Slavery was much like Communism in the sense that the slaves had little incentive to work hard, so their productivity was low. It was just a matter of time before people would learn that it was cheaper to pay a wage with the increased productivity that paid workers brought to the table.
            And in a very real sense, with Government taking 40% of the country’s production, we are all slaves to Government.

          • Vigilant

            They were NOT trying to eliminate slavery. Read Article 4, sections 2 and 3 as quoted above.

          • DaveH

            Four Slave states fought on the side of the North. When Lincoln issued his Emancipation Proclamation, it only applied to the South, not the Northern slave states. With lying politicians, most of us know that you have to read between the lines. Judge them by their actions, not their words. The Emancipation Proclamation, 2 years after the war was launched against the South. It was a war measure. Lincoln would use any trick to force the South to be part of the Unholy Union:
            http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/emancipation_proclamation/

          • DaveH

            And this is how the “anti-slavery” Oh-so-Nice Unionists treated the Indians:
            http://abacusadventure.com/Custer%27sWest.html

            Just read the book “Lincoln Unmasked” by Thomas DiLorenzo. Then you can draw your own conclusions about who Lincoln and the Unionists really were.

            Bluster on, Vigilant.

          • JC

            The other thing not mentioned about freeing the slaves of the south was there was a cost to it…
            An escaped or liberated slave had to serve one year in the Union Army to gain their “papers”. During that service they were used as cannon fodder. How humanitarian…

          • DaveH

            You stepped in it now, JC. Get ready for some nasty personal attacks from Vigilant.

          • Vigilant

            DaveH, just ONCE I’d like to see you address Article 4, sections 2 and 3 of the CSA constitution instead of changing the subject. Unbelievable.

          • Vigilant

            And to once more address the Emancipation Proclamation, you have also ignored my postings concerning the 13th Amendment two years later. Supported by Lincoln and passed by the Congress before his death, it freed ALL slaves. What say you?

            You’ve also ignored the fact that Lincoln advocated for full citizenship for the freed slaves in a speech just days before his death. What say you?

            All I ever ask is that you address the facts when I present them instead of bringing up unrelated material, or warning about some vicious personal attack that is not forthcoming.

          • DaveH

            What else would politicians do after killing 600,000 people using the cause of abolition as their excuse?
            Those who want to understand the political reasoning behind the 13th Amendment, or the real reasons for the War against the Southern States, can read Thomas DiLorenzo’s well-documented books “The Real Lincoln”, and “Lincoln Unmasked”.

            Also, read this article to learn more about the real character of Abraham Lincoln. Note especially his deportation efforts against Blacks. And the book “Forced into Glory: Abraham Lincoln’s White Dream” by African-American author Lerone Bennett Jr:
            http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo139.html

          • DaveH

            This is an interesting thing also, for those who would believe that Lincoln’s intent for launching the War against the Southern States was his disdain for slavery:
            http://history1800s.about.com/od/civilwar/ig/New-York-City-Draft-Riots/Lincoln-Appeared-Resolute.htm

            What greater form of slavery is there than to be forced against your convictions, against your will, to engage in a life or death battle?

          • Vigilant

            “This is an interesting thing also, for those who would believe that Lincoln’s intent for launching the War against the Southern States was his disdain for slavery…”

            No one who has researched history, certainly not I, has/have claimed that was the reason. The object of the action, first and foremost, was TO PRESERVE THE UNION.

            It strikes me that some can’t seem to understand the two primary motives. The South, by all their writings and declarations, clearly seceded because of the slavery issue. The source documents don’t lie, and they are not my “version of the truth,” they are there for all to read. The North went to war to preserve the Union, period.

            Nineteen of my ancestors fought in the war, and it’s a near certainty that they didn’t go to war to stop slavery, they went to war to preserve the Union. Given the near-universal racism in both the north and south, it’s unlikely that troops would have rallied around an abolitioniost flag.

            If anyone claims that Lincoln involved the north in the war to eradicate slavery, then they are distorting the truth.

          • Vigilant

            “Those who want to understand the political reasoning behind the 13th Amendment…can read Thomas DiLorenzo’s well-documented books “The Real Lincoln”, and “Lincoln Unmasked”.”

            DaveH is reading something that doesn’t exist. As far as I’ve researched, DiLorenzo only mentions the 13th Amendment ONCE (page 164, “The Real Lincoln”) as a Reconstruction amendment, but that’s it: no explanation, no argument, no fault-finding. You can’t even find mention of it in “Lincoln Unmasked.”

            The 13th freed the slaves in all states, north and south, pure and simple.

            So, pray tell Dave, what was “the political reasoning behind the 13th Amendment?” And where did DiLorenzo even address it? I’m sure there must be some real nefarious reason for freeing the slaves.

          • Vigilant

            BTW, I don’t expect an answer. You’ve too often skirted the issues when provided with those inconvenient facts.

          • DaveH

            I did answer it. You just need to learn how to read.
            From an above comment:
            “What else would politicians do after killing 600,000 people using the cause of abolition as their excuse?”
            Now, bugger off, Vigilant. You are as annoying as Eddie.

          • DaveH

            And, as I’ve said (in so many words) many times, I don’t answer every ridiculous demanding question put forth by pushy controlling people like you, Vigilant. Get used to it. You’re the kind of people that I’m trying to get away from in my pursuit for Freedom.

          • Vigilant

            “What else would politicians do after killing 600,000 people using the cause of abolition as their excuse?”

            Only someone like you would call that an answer. And to cite a falsehood in doing so.

            Your knowledge of the Civil War is even more paltry than I thought. No one ever used abolition as an excuse for the war. It was called “preserving the Union.” Even DiLorenzo knows that.

            In your mind, you cannot ascribe even one generous thing to Abraham Lincoln. What a poor misguided soul you are!

            You’re not a thinker, you’re as true believer!

          • Vigilant

            “And, as I’ve said (in so many words) many times, I don’t answer every ridiculous demanding question put forth by pushy controlling people like you, Vigilant. Get used to it. You’re the kind of people that I’m trying to get away from in my pursuit for Freedom.”

            Oh I’m used to it all right! When cornered by facts you skitter off and refuse to answer. And yes, when in pursuit of rational argument from one who’s as programmed as a leftist Alinskyite, I wouldn’t expect a direct answer to a direct question related to cited facts.

            I assure you sir, if you’re trying to get away from me OR the facts, I will indeed pursue you ’til Hell freezes over. YOU get used to that, sonny! I ain’t goin’ away!

          • Vigilant

            And even though you don’t have a shred of patriotism in you, have a nice Independence Day anyway.

          • JC

            As an aside to your arguments:
            “Blacks were not enslaved because they were black but because they were available. Slavery has existed in the world for thousands of years. Whites enslaved other whites in Europe for centuries before the first black was brought to the Western hemisphere. Asians enslaved Europeans. Asians enslaved other Asians. Africans enslaved other Africans, and indeed even today in North Africa, blacks continue to enslave blacks.” ~ Thomas Sowell

          • DaveH

            So, now I’m Unpatriotic because I don’t think Vigilant’s way. What else could I expect from a manipulative, personally attacking, lying slanderer?
            For those who want to see what I’m talking about go here:
            http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/civil-liberty/blacks-picket-the-naacp/?eiid=&rmid=2011_06_17_PLA_%5BP11474746%5D&rrid=394921490

            Especially do a find on “slavery apologist” and follow that thread. Notice that he dances all around and attacks my vocabulary comprehension instead of simply providing proof that in any of my comments I was an apologist for slavery. I know, it depends on what the “meaning of is is”.

          • DaveH

            Here’s another thread highlighting Vigilant’s adolescent attempts at winning with personal attacks:
            http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/government/america-no-longer-the-land-of-the-free/

            Do a find on “mental midgets”.

            Seek help, Vigilant.

          • Vigilant

            “So, now I’m Unpatriotic because I don’t think Vigilant’s way. What else could I expect from a manipulative, personally attacking, lying slanderer?”

            No, Dave, do you want me to re-post your derogatory comments about patriotism? You’re unpatriotic because you said as much. Patriotism is just a ploy, eh? THAT’S why I called you unpatriotic. Funny, the shoe fits, but you won’t wear it.

            Watching you sputter and fizzle like a 4th of July whirligig is indeed giving me a lot of satisfaction. Like the mentally deficient bully in the schoolyard, you wheedle and irritate until someone strikes back, and then cry foul. What a maroon!

            You may in your fits of temporary insanity think that people are actually interested in linking to our previous exchanges. Hint: they’re not.

            I’m not going to waste time re-posting every insult you’ve hurled my way, it would take up much more space than to list mine.

            Oh, add one more: it becomes more obvious with each of your postings why your wife left you. How’s that for personal insult? You may re-post it as often as you like.

          • Vigilant

            P.S. The ball’s in your court, a$$hole…

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I still think this country would be in much better shape had the South won the civil war, and I say this, fully knowing friends with the skin color of black, who have moved to the south, and say they have been treated more fairly living in the south than they ever were living up here in the north. Right or wrong, just my opinion.

    • Wayne937

      chuckb, thanks for enlightening us on this little bit of history. Of course, Jopa, eddie and the rest of the non believers will not pay any attention to these facts on history as it will upset their balance. They don’t want to know the facts. They just want to spout off without facts.

  • LARRY

    I think it’s time we do the whole thing over again & start from scratch. We’re bankrupt anyway, so all we can do is go in the right directyion after we’ve learned from our mistakes of the past. Do away with the IRS, rewrite everything else and decrease GOVERNMENT ACROSS THE BOARD and let the individual states & individual citizens run our own lifes again when things were a lot better. PUT GOD BACK INTO THE LIVES OF OUR FAMILIES AND CHILDREN.

  • http://google DOT ANN

    I LIKED EVERYONE MUCH BETTER WHEN THEY DIDN`T REVEAL THIER POLITICAL PREFERENCE! ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS READ ONE COMMENT FROM A PERSON AND YOU CAN INSTANTLY TELL THEIR POLITICS.
    BOTH PARTYS ARE LIARS AND I WOULD HATE TO BE ACCUSED OF VOTING FOR EITHER ONE OF THEM!!

    • Jana

      DOT ANN,
      You just revealed yours.

    • JC

      Go Libertarian Dot Ann

    • Dan az

      DOT ANN

      • Dan az

        Dot ann
        Being a independent sitting on the fence trying to vote for the lesser of two evils is not the right choice.That fence is the constitution that was built by the libertarian party that believes in it.Why not get off the fence and add your self to its strait line polices and stop leaning to one side or the other.There is one side that divides them and there you do not have to pick sides or lean one way or another.Its the libertarians that are the fence join us and help take back the constitution that is being destroyed by both sides.Freedom and liberty is a God given right and the constitution protects that right.Don’t waste any more of your votes go here and learn what you thought you had all the time but didn’t.
        http://libertarianparty.org/platform

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I believe in God and Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. Now you know what party I vote for. And they have been failing me, and I can only pray that they get better. The other two parties, well the one obviously doesnt believe in God or they wouldnt champion the causes they champion, and the new one seems to state in its beliefs that it doesnt either. This is my quandry.

  • Skyskiers

    Click on the link to hear the letter to Obama, then scroll on
    down to see it

    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=JVAhr4hZDJE&vq=medium

    Dear President Obama”

    We The People have stated resolutely that we reject your vision
    for our country. You claim you have not heard us.

    WE THE PEOPLE have assembled across America resisting your
    efforts to subvert our CONSTITUTION and undermine our
    LIBERTY. You claim you have not seen us.

    Since you have not acknowledged our message let us here
    present it once more. For if as President Wilson said, a leaders
    ear must ring with the voices of the people, the time has come.

    Our greatest treasure is FREEDOM. The absence of restraints
    on our ability to think and to act. The corollary of FREEDOM is
    INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY. We believe in the power of the
    individual. A few years ago President Bush said, “History moves
    toward FREEDOM because the desire for FREEDOM is written in
    every human heart.” Let us add that we will preserve it only as
    long as devotion to FREEDOM is expressed in the heart of our
    ACTIONS.

    When President Lincoln dedicated Gettysburg National Cemetery
    he declared, “it is for us the living … to be dedicated here to the
    unfinished work which they who fought here have thus so nobly
    advanced.” That unfinished cause for which our soldiers willingly
    go to battle and for which so many have given their lives is a
    FREE United States of America.

    It has been nearly one hundred fifty years and the work President
    Lincoln spoke of is not finished. In fact, that work will never be
    finished. FREEDOM IS THE CAPACITY FOR SELF DETERMINATION.
    It is not an entity but a condition, and conditions change.
    FREEDOM can expand, yet so can it contract.

    You promised CHANGE when you took office, Mr. President, but
    subjugation is not CHANGE we wanted or will accept. You have
    expanded government violated our CONSTITUTION confounded
    laws seized private industry destroyed jobs perverted our
    ECONOMY curtailed FREE SPEECH corrupted our CURRENCY
    weakened our NATIONAL SECURITY AND ENDANGERED OUR
    sovereignty.

    By compromising our nation’s cultural, legal, and economic
    institutions you are ensuring that our children will never achieve
    the same quality of life as we enjoy today. Through generational
    theft you are robbing the unborn of opportunity. This is not
    acceptable not in AMERICA. We did not become a strong nation
    through HOPE but rather through self-reliance.

    No one better understands the relationship between individual
    achievement dignity and strength than our ARMED FORCES.
    Through every war our soldiers have held this nation’s destiny in
    their hands. They have not failed us. They cherish FREEDOM
    enough that they are willing to DIE FOR IT. Our duty to them and
    to ourselves is to treasure FREEDOM enough TO LIVE UP TO IT.

    We accept the challenge, Mr. President. That is why we are
    assembling across the land to deliver our message to you as often
    and in every way we can. Dismiss us at your political peril. Our
    great nation is a REPUBLIC. We will not accept tyranny under any
    guise.

    Your policy to redistribute the fruits of our labor is STATISM and
    will not be tolerated. By our honor, Mr. President, we vow forever
    to resist coercive government in AMERICA. PATRIOTS will not stand
    silent as you attempt to dismantle the greatest nation on earth.

    WE THE PEOPLE will defend our liberty, we will protect our beloved
    country and America’s EXCEPTIONALISM WILL PREVAIL!

    GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

    Sincerely, WE THE PEOPLE

    • Wayne937

      Skyskiers, this needs to get around the United States. I’ll bet you could never get ABC, NBC and CBS to ever read it on their tv’s. I don’t watch anything on these channel except my local station. You should send this one to your Congress Members. I woukld send it to mine but they never read them anyway. All I ever get back from my Congress Members are those stupid form letters sent out by their staff.

    • Dan az

      Skyskiers
      That was excellent and I will be posting it every where i can find to do it!Thanks and keep up the good work!

      • Jana

        Skysiers,

        I concur,that was a great letter and I am sending it to those in my email list.
        Thanks for sharing it.

        • Jana

          I meant Skyskiers. Stupid keyboard.

    • Dan az

      Skyskiers
      I sent that to oboma and every site that I go to.Also I sent it to the washington post to eli saslow which give the prez ten letters to read a day and supposedly replies to them.We’ll See!I even sent them to my congressmen for what good that will do.I’ve been busy spreading the word I hope everyone here will do the same.No black helicopters yet but hey its still early!

  • chuckb

    i meant jefferson and a nephew of washington.

  • http://TexasFred.net TexasFred

    I believe the time is rapidly approaching when we MUST be that brave…

    P.S. I have your blog linked on my from page, *Best of the Web*…

  • s c

    Today, we’re seeing what happens when tree-dwelling knuckledraggers sell themselves to anti-freedom, prostituted philosophies. We’re enduring “educated” people who have the common sense of a pile of pig crap.
    If we could compare the two main groups that make up America today, those who have a right to view themselves as patriots see the Founding Fathers as mortals who chose to create a nation that stands for freedom’s last refuge. The “others” are mutant traitors who would have sided with the British in the 18th century.
    It takes courage to create a nation that cherishes freedom. It takes no talent whatsoever to choose to destroy freedom. I salute the Founding Fathers. To those who see the Founding Fathers as dangerous and
    suspect, I salute you with two raised middle fingers and a gut-level desire to ship your useful idiot, self-made, retard arse(s) to another country.

    • Dan az

      sc :) :)
      And I salute you for say it!!!!

  • i41

    DOT ANN, typical [offensive word removed] wimpy statement from a gutless wonder. If you don’t have enough backbone to state your political preference, then you wouldn’t have signed on the line. As for not voting, then shut the —up and quit bi–hing when things goes to hell. Any [expletive deleted] democrat, either friend or relative, always believe in total government control, and are too worthless to be self employed, a job of some form for a government entity or some unionized mega corporation is where they gravitate to.. Go check out what political party small business owners and developers go to, it is not the marxist/communist democrat party. All they get from these sorry —-, is more regulations and interference. We have very few people that will risk anything of their own, either property or their life to stand up for something, only our volunteer military is generally pretty constant on taking a hard line on having guts and courage to stand for something.

  • mark

    They signed so they could keep their wealth, their privileges, and their SLAVES. And they set an important precedent that July 4th, 1776: government of the rich, for the rich, and by the rich. And they still rule today getting up everymorning with a smile on their face to piss on all the rest of us before they head out for their yachts and corporate jets. Happy Fourth, sucker! Keep putting your kids in uniform to die for us! We’ll send ours to private school and the Ivy Leagues. Send yours to Iraq and Afghanistan!

    • Wayne937

      mark, go out and get yourself a job from a poor person. Most of these folks worked hard to establish their business. They have a right to hold on to their own money that they worked so hard for. Why should they give it away to people who do not have any motivation, or just to plain lazy to work. Don’t punish those who are willing to do the work.

      • eddie47d

        Yes Wayne,stop punishing the day laborers and field workers who work load is double what corporates perform.It reality I don’t think you give a squat about those who are below you and work hard.

        • JC

          Your comment has no connection at all to anything Wayne said.

        • Wayne937

          Eddie, we were really poor folks when I was growing up. I worked on our own farm since I was about 6 years old cutting & sawing up wood for the winter time, and of course other things too, until I was about 15. We raised most of our food on the farm. I used a double bitted axe and a two man cross saw with my two brothers to cut the logs up into smaller pieces. I used the axe, and a sledge with wedges to split the wood. I know what it is like being poor. We did not have any electricity, running water and we had to burn wood and coal to cook on, and to heat our home with. From the time I was 11 years old until I was around 18 I worked on truck farms for $2.00 for a 9 hour a day. At age 15 until I was 18 I was making $5.00 per day. Yes! I was from a poor family and we all had to work in order to eat. There was not any welfare, or government aid of any kind back when I was a teenager. In fact I am still a long way from being rich. At 18 I entered the United States Air Force and served my 4 years. I really contribute being poor while growing up is what made me to have my Comservative values. Eddie I do know what hard work it. Kids of today don’t know what it was like to grow up the way I did. Have you ever had a chance to see that documentary where, I believe, 5 families who wanted to try to live like the folks did back in the middle of the 1800′s. Most of them could not muster it and had to leave before there time was up. That was the way I grew up.

          • JeffH

            Wayne937, there is no reason for you to have to respond to such an ignorant comment.

          • eddie47d

            Sure there is Jeff and you are just as ignorant. He didn’t answer the question, exactly like you seldom do.He gloated about himself (like you sometimes do)although I doubt if you could compare with Wayne. Work in the fields 10 hours a day for years like the migrants do . You’ll never be as hard working as they are.

          • Jana

            Wayne,
            My husband did the same thing as a kid. He got out in the cotton field to work to pay for his school clothes right along with the other cotton pickers. His daddy told him if he couldn’t pick what the grown ups picked he couldn’t work there any more so he had to work hard. There were a few farmers that hadn’t gotten the mechanical cottom pickers yet.
            He also grew up dirt poor, but has terrific work ethics as I know you do.
            Thanks for sharing your youth with us. It is indeed something to be proud of, but what you said does not come across as boasting. You were truly showing that you know what it is to grow up poor and have to work hard.
            I think most of us have nothad the priveleged to grow up in a well to do family.
            Now when a young person goes out they are deeply dismayed to find out they can’t afford the lovely new home and the new cars and the good furniture, but they think its owed to them anyway.

        • Bert Cundle

          The illegal immigrants & Tempory Legals, are EXPLOYTED! Stop the Slavery of today!

          • Wayne937

            Bert, I know you are right about this. I just wanted Eddie to know that I am not a Conservative because I am rich, or was born with a silver spoon in my mouth. Thanks for your good comment.

          • Jana

            Bert,
            Sadly there is slavery going on all over the world today. I just read an account of a little girl taken from Africa by a Muslim family who at age 17 had never even been outside the house. She had a cot in the basement and had one outfit to wear so she washed it every night. At age 7 she was required to work from 6 A.M. till 9 P.M. She got one meal a day and ate out of the trash the rest of the time. This was right in in the United States.
            They freed her, but since she had never been to school she had no other skills to fall back on.
            I am sure this is repeated more often than we would care to admit, and by more than just Muslim peoples too.
            This makes you know we have to have our eyes open for this type of thing.

          • wayne937

            Eddie47d, I don’t know why any sensible person would want to respond to your stupid comments unless they are just trying to irritate you for some reason. You are a lost cause. Like I have said before, a person cannot intelligently communicate with some one like you. I’ll let the other folks continue tease your lack of intelligence. I am through with you.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      mark, keep voting democrat, and keep feeling sorry for yourself and make yourself a victim, and the democrats will love you forever. You sir are a defeated man. You are like the frenchy frenchman rolled up into the fetal position crying for Mr. American to come save you. Man up dude, get out of the liberal defeatist funk your in, and join the human race. Its not as bad as you make it be. Stop being a part of the problem, and be a part of the solution. Hike up your big girl panties and get a grip on yourself. Wow.

  • chuckb

    mark, you sound like a product of our current education system. no wonder our schools are failing. you apparently know very little about the founding fathers.

  • i41

    s.c. we know from history that at least 1/3 of the population was sweet on the British, the women had no problem prostituting them selves out to the military. Go any “higher education center” anywhere in the country and see what worthless f–ks that are being turned out as lawyers and professionals. The niggardly marxist muslim pervert in Chief, would and is doing his best to destroy the USA, along wiith his tax cheats and sexual perverts of the marxist/communist democrat party, all who still sing about his smartness. Happy sailing would be seeing, every democrat swimming on his back, towing a muslim tied to each leg, and a PCed idiot under each arm. All being guided by Blarney Flanks calling out soundings while riding the Kenyan crossbred, Onumnutts headed south east in the Alantic.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear I41,

      The dictionary definition of niggardly is: 1) grudgingly mean about spending or granting. 2) Provided in meanly limited supply.

      Obviously, neither of those fit President Obama. So if you are using it as a racial slur you are ignorant, and if you are using it to feign a racial slur then you are simply trying to stir up racial animosity in the thread. There is no place for either of those here.

      Also, I want to caution you on your language, which is walking very close to the line of unacceptability. Please, mind your manners.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • JeffH

        Thank you Bob. I brought the question of “intent” up a few weeks ago and a few folks thought I was out of line. Point made, thank you.

    • Wayne937

      I am aware of one woman from our area who as a teenager got into all kinds of problems. She went to law school and became a lawyer. I thought to myself, how in the world could this druggie graduate from a law school? She was just as bad after she became a lawyer. She was very heavily involved in drugs. This kind of thing hurts any decent lawyer, if there are any around. I am sure there is a lot of good competant attornies, but they should not allow this kind of thing to coexists within their profession.

      • JC

        Was her name Hillary? ;)

        • Wayne937

          No it was not. As we all know, there are most likely a lot of those Hillary’s in our society.

          • JC

            You bet there are…
            People who think they need to tell the rest of us how to live.
            Usually Liberals who feel a great debt to their fellow man and which debt they intend to pay with someone else’s money.

            Immoral snakes is what they really are.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          That is funny JC. I needed a laugh. Thank you very much. I dont care who you are, that was funny as can be. And Im sure she does go running for the shelter of her mothers little helper, if you know what Im saying. With Bill around, shoot, the sky is the limit.

  • http://ocoathkeepers.wordpress.com JeffF

    Even though the 4th of July is considered a holiday, the Continental Congress actually voted for independence on July 2, 1776. John Adams, in his writings, even noted that July 2 would be remembered in the annals of American history and would be marked with fireworks and celebrations. The written Declaration of Independence was dated July 4 but wasn’t actually signed until August 2. Fifty-six delegates eventually signed the document, although all were not present on that day in August.
    It’s very important that we get our history correct.

  • DaveH

    Thank you, Chip, for that PDF copy of “They Signed for Us”.

  • i41

    mark, you would n’t have the guts or courage to even think about signing the Declaration of Independance. You like being a slave to government since some wonk in Washington fills the trough with the approved swill to feed you, drags in and throws up some straw butts for shelter. The marxist/communists democrats sure fit the bill for privater yachts and jets to buzz off at taxpayer’s expense and don’t even pay their taxes. When these same millionaires and billionaires in the spout on about raising taxes on the rich, why don’t they be the first to tell us what they will pay extra Oh, [expletive deleted] they get tax breaks and go off shore. you know like Nancy Pelousy did with the 26 million she made last year in a poor economic outlook.

    • Wayne937

      i4l, look at GE, They made 8 billion dollars and did not pay any taxes. You had better believe that all the millionaires who are in Congress have a way to protect their money some how. They most likely have passed a law giving Congress Members that exemption. John Kerry wife is a multimilionaire as well. In fact here is just a little history on Theresa Heinz Kerry:
      The Forbes 400 survey estimated in 2004 that Teresa Heinz Kerry had a net worth of $750 million. However, estimates have frequently varied, ranging from around $165 million to as high as $3.2 billion, according to a study in the Los Angeles Times. Regardless of which figure is correct, Kerry is the wealthiest U.S. Senator. Kerry is wealthy in his own name, and is the beneficiary of at least four trusts inherited from Forbes family members, including his mother, who died in 2002. Forbes magazine (a major business magazine named for an unrelated Forbes family) estimated that if elected, Kerry would have been the third-richest U.S. President in history when adjusted for inflation.[13] This assessment was based on the couple’s combined assets, but Kerry and Heinz signed a prenuptial agreement that keeps their assets separate.[14] Kerry’s financial disclosure form for 2002 put his personal assets in the range of $409,000 to $1.8 million, with additional assets held jointly by Kerry and his wife in the range of $300,000 to $600,000.[15]

      For confirmation see website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry After reading this, do you really believe those fat cats in Congress want to tax the rich? If they do it won’t be them paying any taxes. They have protected themselves very well. These are people I don’t care much about. Charlie Rangel refused to pay his taxes for several years and even when he did get caught, he got a slap on the wrist, and voted back in to his old job in Congress. You see when your in Congress, crime does pay well. How do these idiots keep getting voted back in office. They have their constitutents brain washed, or get paid off with big buck going back to their district.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The companies tied to the liberals, like GE and Heinze, dont have to pay their fair share of taxes. But by golly, successful companies that the liberals like to demonize, like Walmart, well they pay millions upon millions in taxes. The liberals like to make it out that only Republicans have money, but anyone who knows anything, knows the democrats, like George Soros, and many others, are amongst the richest people on the planet. Yet uniformed, uneducated people by the millions buy into their lie that they are for the poor working man. Baloney. Makes me sick.

  • jopa

    Busy day today my good friends.Sorry I couldn’t get back to you sooner.Apparently I was wrong in saying John Adams was nine years old at the time and do wish you would all accept my humblest apologies.I will take Mr. Livingstons word for this one but the part where Bachman claims the Declaration was written to free the slaves I don’t think so.Perhaps the clip I had seen on Adams was actually Sam Adams.It has been awhile since I have seen it.I sure do hope we can put this to rest so you will be able to sleep tonight.Thank you and have a good one.

    • JC

      Samuel Adams was one of the founders as well.

      • JeffH

        …a pretty tasty beverage also…

      • JC

        And the guy who said these things…

        Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can.

        How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!

        The Constitution shall never be construed… to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.

        The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil constitution, are worth defending against all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.

        The natural liberty of man is to be free from any superior power on Earth, and not to be under the will or legislative authority of man, but only to have the law of nature for his rule.

        And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions.

        If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

        And I’ll drink to that! :)
        Happy Birthday America…Long may you vanquish Tyranny with Deadly Force.

        • Dan az

          JC
          or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions.
          I wonder what would have happened to the TSA back then!!!!
          I’m sure they wouldn’t have lasted one day!How sad!

          • JC

            True.
            Who is the person in your icon?

          • Dan az

            JC
            A liberal searching for the truth just before that popping sound! :)

  • http://don'thaveone Phillip Witte

    These were men of honor, something that’s lacking in today’s leaders. The real problem is the American people who don’t pay attention to what’s going on in Washington. The people have allowed elected office to become a career rather than service. This is why there is so much corruption in Washington and also in the states and cities. Two many Americans worry more about the NFL Football Season and Dancing With The Stars, than what’s going on in government. Term Limits for all elected offices and no retirement. Congress should have to live with the laws they pass on the rest of us. America stop voteing these people back into office.

    • Wayne937

      Phillip, you have stolen my line about too many folks watching sports, soap opera, and letting the Washington D. C. Politician play around with our liberty and our tax money. How do you think we got so far in debt. It was because the people was not paying any attention to their Congress Members. We hired them, put them up there for two to six years, and forgot them. Now the politicians think they own and control us, not the other way around.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      What I would like to know, is these people supposedly come to be a public servant, and desire to be a public servant, then why is it after they serve a term or two, we have to pay them for the rest of their lives, more than they made when they were working? This bull crap needs changed, immediately. It is costing us billions.

  • jopa

    Wayne 937:You are right on the money when you say congress has written laws to protect their millions.Lobbyists for the rich have been marching into Washington with envelopes stuffed with money for legislation stacked in their favor since day one.GE is just one of the corporation that didn’t pay any taxes and many that didn’t received refunds for research and R&D.Most of your hedge fund managers making several million a year only pay 15% max in taxes.It is a good investment for a millionaire to give a candidate a couple hundred thousand for his campaign for millions in deductions.If lobbyists were banned it would be a better world.

    • DaveH

      There would be no need for corporate lobbyists if Government was gotten out of the Marketplace.

      • eddie47d

        The opposite could be true if there was a weak government where the corporates could have a field day. Dang, they already do!

        • JC

          That’s what a “justice” system is for…we don’t have one of those either.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          No so fast eddie. If a company is not doing right by those that support it, it will not survive long. The free market will dictate that a company selling junk at a high price, will not survive when its competition is selling better quality at a lower price. The consumer wins when this free market approach is taken, and governmental authorities stay out of it and let it takes it course. Instead, they play favorites and prop up their GM’s and Chryslers, which isnt fair to the rest of them. Then they put in all their regulations and red tape, and that costs business, which in turn costs us consumers. But heck eddie, that is just the truth, and I know youve no room for that.

      • JeffH

        Hear the buzz? bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

        • DaveH

          Anybody have a fly swatter? Make that two.

          • eddie47d

            The boo hoo boys are crying again.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Eddie, you need swatted down like Vito the mosquito. You have no redeeming qualities on these threads for some reason.

    • Wayne937

      Jopa, this is one time I also agree with you. I don’t think anyone can deny this has, and is still happening. I don’t like anyone who is crooked. We know we have had our share of crooked politicians on both sides of the isle. I deplore that kind of thing as I was not raised that way. Thanks.

  • http://don'thaveone Phillip

    The founders were men of honor, something we don’t have much of in Washington any more. The American People are the real problem. More worried about if there will be an NFL Football season and Dancing With The Stars than what’s going on in the government. If the people don’t wake up and take their government back the America I knew growing up is finished.

  • don

    If we could bring back those days when patriotism meant something . Now you’re considered an Anarchist

  • Sasquatch

    BRAVE ? There is not one BRAVE Congressperson in Washington who will stand up and prosecute the obvious crimes and misdemeanors of our impostor-who-stands-in-OUR STEAD ! Forgery, fraud, manipulating Social Security system, covering up passport fraud, birth records, tampering with a birth certificate. The impostor has done 10 times the crimes of Richard M. Nixon, but all the press and liberals goo-gah over their impostor leader with the fancy walk and do-nothing talk. He is destroying this country, and if we default on these upcoming loans, this country will spiral into chaos and martial law, so he can continue to be the impostor–in-chief. SOMEBODY STAND UP.
    Mo Brooks ? Richard Shelby ? Jeff Sessions ? Spencer Bachus ? MIke Rogers ? Do any of you have any testosterone left or have you left them and us hanging ? Stand up damn it and prosecute Obama with a full-fledged Congressional Judiciary Investigation NOW ! GET HIM OUT !

  • Wayne937

    To all Conservatives: This is the message I have just forwarded to all my Congressmem. I suggest that you all do the same thing. You are welcome to use the one I sent if you will just change the name to reflect it to the name of your Congress Members.

    Honorable Casey, when is Congress going to get up enough gumption to ask for a special prosecutor to get an independent investigation why the ATF would sell firearms to the Mexican Drug Lords. We know that at least one border agent has been killed, maybe two, and Congress are dragging their feet by not doing a thing. We also know that some one high up in the ATF gave the order to do this. Was it the AG, Eric Holder? I have never seen a Congress that would protect a president, or his staff, when they has committed so many wrongs against the people. Remember, you work for us. It is our taxes that pay your salary. We hired you to work for us. We can fire you as well. Get off your lazy butts and work for more ethics within our government. Work for the one that pays you a salary, it is not Obama that pays your salary. Impeach this imposter they call president. Senator Casey, I am sure you will ignore this message as you have of so many messages I have written in the past. It is time for Congress to get serious, and rein in this President. I know that the only thing I will get back from you will be a form letter, not a personal letter. You could care less for the common good of your constituents. I can assure you, I will not forget.

    ” Subject: What WE Taxpayers Want
    Dear Senator Casey;
    The time is NOW for the Senate to get back to using American COMMON SENSE. And you Senator, need to come aboard and act on what we the people want.
    FIRST.. STOP THE DAMN GOVERNMENT SPENDING.
    2′ND.. DON’T INCREASE THE DEFICIT CEILING.
    3′RD.. DEFUND THE PRESIDENT’S USE OF AIR FORCE ONE AND STOP HIS USE OF HIS CORPORATE JET, @ $100,000.00 EACH TIME IT FLIES.

    AND,WE WANT:

    *Obama: Gone!
    *Borders: Closed!
    *Language: English Only
    *Culture: Constitution, and the *Bill of Rights!
    *Drugs: Mandatory Drug Screening before Welfare!
    *NO freebies to Non-Citizens!
    *NO Obama Care!
    *Control of the EPA!
    *Stop Omama’s Executive Orders/Memos Overriding Congressional Actions.

    You Senator, object to ALL OF THE ABOVE. But You must start representing- We the People!

    THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE A FUNNY. This is serious stuff.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Welfare, food stamps, WIC, Government housing. All the recipients of these should have to pass a drug and alcohol screen, at least once a month, done in a way that they cant beat it with a pill or drinking vinegar or stuff like that. One failure, and your done. Its high time, no pun intended, that these lepers get off their duffs and get a job. Over 90 percent of unemployed are that way because they refuse to work, because the government has made it lucrative for them to stick their hand out. Its time to stop this madness. Its insane. And its the democrats way of buying votes.

  • chuckb

    wayne937, good one. i would like to see barbara boxers face if she read this, it would never get by her aide. the same with fienstein. these california senators are secure in their position, the liberal voting block controls the state. i have no hope of seeing anything changed in california. we are swamped with illegals, minorities and unionized civil servants. the schools are spawning grounds for the bolsheviks and changing anything would be impossible, that’s why we have this creep moonbeam brown as governor. everything you say in your letter is right and should be the agenda for the conservatives, their problem is their fear of the media and the democratic party so expect nothing. the media will pound on them until the next election and then we will have a new democratic congress. i don’t think we have seen anything yet. just look at the current people running for president against barry, they sure don’t show me they are capable of standing against the bolsheviks. the two women are the only exception, i think they are both honest and know how to handle the situation, preferably palin. she has the experience, michelle is a little too timid for me although she’s stronger than the men with the exception of trump, my problem with him, is he hiding behind the conservative cloak? i like the way he fights back and if he’s real then i would go for him and palin.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Why do you think California is so far in debt? Liberal leadership all the way. That is the answer. Liberal leadership. This is what it brings.

  • 1 Son of Liberty

    Thanks, Chip! Have a safe and Happy 4th. God Bless you and yours

  • bob wire

    Best Write yet Chip! Great reflection ~ and I don’t know if I would have signed such a document or not.

    Not one to be foolish on purpose, I’d had to have seen a dark cloud gathering and confident that it could be pulled off. There were no guarantees that it wouldn’t cost you your head.

    I was not there, but I’d say that it was a hard call by anyone.

  • Christin

    Thanks Chip… good article and good book… thanks for sharing it with us again… I printed it last year.

    So guys…do we have any brave men of character and integrity who would “pledge their lives, fortunes and sacred honor” for the sake of FREEDOM and LIBERTY in America from this ever present smothering oppression…???

    Happy Fourth of July… to you Chip and all at Personal Liberty.

  • Korean Vet

    Happy 4th of July to Chip & all of our Bloggers-! When you signed–you
    had already “Rebelled Against the King-! For those who don’t know–it was considered a “Death-Sentence”-! And what it meant in months to follow–’Others would pay that Extreme Penalty’ in “Mass Graves”-!
    And one Group–July 27, 1776-”Saves the American Army at Brooklyn & the American Revolution”-! I researched it in Sept, 1994 & it’s True-!
    I later found a New York Web-site–6 yrs ago, confirming my research-!
    Type In– http://www.nyfreedom.com/oldstonehouse.htm (Don’t look for this
    Story in your U.S. Highschool History Books–because you won’t find
    it–in any of them-! But to verify it’s True–type in “Mordecai Gist”
    The last man of the “Maryland Four Hundred”–who “Saved the Army”-!
    George Washington made him a ‘Brigadier General’–they didn’t have
    cameras in those days–but they did paint “portraits”-! Welcome to your “Unknown” but Thrilling American History that’s left out of your
    Books-! I still think that they should be 400 ‘Medals of Honor’ issued
    even today-! 400 men against 4,000 ‘crack’ British Troops–that’s Not
    Bravery, that’s Not Courage–it’s SUICIDE-! I’m military & know the odds–in an ‘open-meadow’ with no trees, or walls to shoot from cover!

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

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  • Wayne Morgan

    I swear to God Almighty, if there was such a movement today I would be there. As I just posted on another blog , those papers in Washington belong to us, the people. They don’t belong to the fat cats that add and delete as they see fit. We the people spoke, on Obamacare and other subjects and were denied our rights by a run away government, that is so out of control I honestly don’t think that any body knows how to bring it to a stop. I think that we are being tried and pushed just to see where the breaking point is. I can not think of any other reason for things to continue, for the voices of Americans to be ignored as they are. God help us all.

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