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Wishing It Were So

October 15, 2010 by  

Wishing It Were So

Elected elites have been subverting the Constitution and encroaching into our affairs for decades.

The majority of the electorate — long content to occupy itself with earning a living, raising families and considering politics for only a short period of time (typically between Labor Day and the election) has finally awakened to the reality of a bloated and overbearing government. A poll released this week bears this out.

The Gallup/USA Today poll shows that a growing percentage of Americans are coming to view the government as too intrusive and powerful. The poll, conducted Sept. 13-16, shows that 59 percent of the country believes the government has too much power, compared to 33 percent who think it has the right amount. In 2002, only 39 percent believed the government was too powerful while 52 percent said it wielded the right amount of power.

A growing majority, 58 percent, believe the government is trying to do too many things that should be left up to individuals. Only 36 percent believe government should do more. Two more things the poll revealed: 49 percent believe there is too much government regulation, 27 percent believe there is too little government regulation and 21 percent believe we currently have the right amount; and 46 percent believe the government poses an immediate threat to the freedoms of ordinary citizens and 51 percent believe it does not. However, that 46 percent number is up from 30 percent in 2003.

These numbers are reflected in the rise in the Tea Party movement.

But, according to the administration of President Barack Obama, it’s not a concern about an ever-growing government that’s behind the growth of the Tea Party and decline in the popularity of incumbent politicians — particularly Democrats and Republicans in Name Only (RINOs). No, the administration just thinks the electorate is dumb… and it’s saying so.

Democrats aren’t running on the administration’s accomplishments like healthcare and financial-regulatory overhaul and the stimulus because “it’s just too hard to explain,” Vice President Joe Biden told Bloomberg News.

“The 24-hour news cycle is just so lightning fast and the attention span I think is so short that sometimes it’s difficult to keep everybody focused on the long term,” Obama told a crowd at George Washington University.

The truth is that explaining how a healthcare bill that costs more, benefits fewer and eliminates choices is a good bill is difficult. Explaining how trillion dollar bailouts for big banks and Wall Street are beneficial while Americans see their way of life destroyed is difficult. Biden is correct on that count.

It’s a difficult sell because Americans are smart and they’ve seen through the charade. But I would be surprised if the electorate’s attention span is so short — as Obama believes — that it’s going to forget by Nov. 2 what the elected elites have done these last 20-plus months. The elites just wish it were so.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • http://personalliberty.com Jessica

    Of course they think we’re dumb. Why else would they launch that bogus lie about the Chamber of Commerce using foriegn money to finance GOP candidates? And it backfired royally, because it reminded everybody of all the dirty Middle Eastern money that flowed into Obama’s campaign coffers.

    • Patriot

      I’ve got some bad news for you. The Red Chinese are bank rolling a number of campaigns, both Republican and Democrat. Our politcal system is broken. Having lived in a number of Third World nations, I can honestly say that politicians in Washington are the most corrupt in the world.

      • BrotherPatriot

        We have to purge & replace with Constitutional Representatives (Republican Conservatives, imho).

        It will only happen if “we the People” demand it. If this were to happen…it then would become our duty to keep tabs on what the elected are voting for…accountability.

        • Anthony

          ONLY the Repubs, partner….? Who the flyin’ f-@#$%^&*( are you anyway? ONLY the Republican Conservatives…. what a hockey puck. I can’t believe I’m reading this B$.

          Much like Alexander hamilton — You’ve chosen a misleading moniker.

          PROVE OTHERWISE….

          • old white guy

            possibly you know some liberal or progressive conservatives.

          • Mike In MI

            Cool it, Anthony -
            I wouldn’t think BP guilty of saying what you imply. A modern day Alexander hamilton would be that traitor Brenanke. The last thing that bird wants is accountablility which goes for all the libs and prog-frogs. I guess I’d have to add in all the RINOs, too. Anybody who voted for the original bailouts and TARP trap since none of them voted to include any accounting of where the money went or what was done with it.
            The base reason for that was that there was a verbal promise to the bankers and mortgage people that they would be covered for their losses when the loans went bad by whatever was in Soc. Sec., Medicare,and the rest of the entitlement pools. When those proved to be already raided the progs and Bush-babies had to find other resources.
            Just another reason why big government is a terrible, awful idea. If they can steal your wealth they throttle your rights to use the freedom any wealth gives us, and stransfers it to whoever takes it.

      • Karolyn

        And where did you get this information?

      • Carole Howell

        Can everyone handle this much truth, we are not falling behind because we cannot compete with China, we are falling behind because we cannot compete with Germany who sells more to China than we do. Germany makes money off of China, But China makes money off of us.

        Why Germany Has It So Good — and Why America Is Going Down the Drain
        Germans have six weeks of federally mandated vacation, free university tuition, and nursing care. Why the US pales in comparison.
        October 14, 2010 |

        While the bad news of the Euro crisis makes headlines in the US, we hear next to nothing about a quiet revolution in Europe. The European Union, 27 member nations with a half billion people, has become the largest, wealthiest trading bloc in the world, producing nearly a third of the world’s economy — nearly as large as the US and China combined. Europe has more Fortune 500 companies than either the US, China or Japan.

        European nations spend far less than the United States for universal healthcare rated by the World Health Organization as the best in the world, even as U.S. health care is ranked 37th. Europe leads in confronting global climate change with renewable energy technologies, creating hundreds of thousands of new jobs in the process. Europe is twice as energy efficient as the US and their ecological “footprint” (the amount of the earth’s capacity that a population consumes) is about half that of the United States for the same standard of living.

        Unemployment in the US is widespread and becoming chronic, but when Americans have jobs, we work much longer hours than our peers in Europe. Before the recession, Americans were working 1,804 hours per year versus 1,436 hours for Germans — the equivalent of nine extra 40-hour weeks per year.

        In his new book, Were You Born on the Wrong Continent?, Thomas Geoghegan makes a strong case that European social democracies — particularly Germany — have some lessons and models that might make life a lot more livable. Germans have six weeks of federally mandated vacation, free university tuition, and nursing care. But you’ve heard the arguments for years about how those wussy Europeans can’t compete in a global economy. You’ve heard that so many times, you might believe it. But like so many things, the media repeats endlessly, it’s just not true.

        According to Geoghegan, “Since 2003, it’s not China but Germany, that colossus of European socialism, that has either led the world in export sales or at least been tied for first. Even as we in the United States fall more deeply into the clutches of our foreign creditors — China foremost among them — Germany has somehow managed to create a high-wage, unionized economy without shipping all its jobs abroad or creating a massive trade deficit, or any trade deficit at all. And even as the Germans outsell the United States, they manage to take six weeks of vacation every year. They’re beating us with one hand tied behind their back.”
        Thomas Geoghegan, a graduate of Harvard and Harvard Law School, is a labor lawyer with Despres, Schwartz and Geoghegan in Chicago. He has been a staff writer and contributing writer to The New Republic, and his work has appeared in many other journals. Geoghagen ran unsuccessfully in the Democratic Congressional primary to succeed Rahm Emanuel, and is the author of six books including Whose Side Are You on, The Secret Lives of Citizens, and, most recently, Were You Born on the Wrong Continent?

        Terrence McNally: You start your book Were you Born on the Wrong Continent? with a personal experience, a stopover in Zurich. Could you talk about that?
        Thomas Geoghegan: In 1993 I got it in my head, for reasons too long to tell, to go see a woman I’d met who happened to be in Moscow. Because of the coup in October 1993, all the flights to Moscow were canceled, and I ended up in Zurich. I had not been in Western Europe for years, and, while I was waiting for clearance, I happened to walk around the streets and I was just thunderstruck by how nice it was. Every bookstore seemed like a boutique and even the train station was like a perfumery. And I thought, how did this part of the world get so wealthy without my knowing it? That was the epiphany that led me to take a bigger and bigger interest in how Europeans live, and to ask ultimately, were you born in the wrong continent?

        McNally: In talking about that walk, you point out that if you don’t have much poverty, life is better for everybody. Not just better for the poor, but for everybody.

        Geoghegan: You have more of the city available to you. [My hometown] Chicago’s fantastic, but there’s a huge swath of it that you don’t particularly want to go to — not because of any criminal danger, but just because it’s run down. Largely white ethnic neighborhoods on the northwest side are unattractive and dilapidated. Plus there are huge parts of the city that are downright dangerous. Europe isn’t like that. It’s the argument for social democracy: more equality and less poverty and disorder.

        McNally: In their book, The Spirit Level, Richard Wilkinson and Kate Picket point out that on average everything is worse for everybody in the countries with the most unequal distribution of wealth.

        Geoghegan: As a labor lawyer, I can see that janitors and truck drivers I represent would be better off in a social democracy. I make the argument in the book that even people who are doing relatively well would be literally, materially better off in a more egalitarian social democracy. Some of the public goods that are available there for free- – university education, for example, are skewed towards the people who are relatively at the top.

        McNally: Someone who doesn’t go to university doesn’t get that benefit, but a family who sends two or three kids gets an enormous benefit.

        Geoghegan: Of course, low income sectors do better too. Nonetheless, it could be said, there’s a growing amount of poverty in Germany. Especially during the 1990′s and the early part of the last decade, there was a scaling back of social democracy. For a while the bubble of casino capitalism in the US and the UK led to an allocation of capital into the US and UK looking for hot returns. Since the collapse of casino type capitalism in 2008, money has shifted back where it should have been in the first place, to the virtuous economies of the world like Germany, based in manufacturing.

        McNally: I recall Kevin Phillips pointing out in his book Bad Money that year after year the US shifted more and more of our money and our best and brightest young people into finance. When the casino seemed to be paying off, other countries also shifted in our direction, but when it broke, we didn’t have the manufacturing and export base a country like Germany has to fall back on.

        Geoghegan: The Germans had a certain amount of schadenfreude about the whole thing. They’re basically a very pessimistic people by temperament, and when they saw a world debacle that they weren’t responsible for, they actually became a little more upbeat.

        They had what they call a good recession. The German government was very quick off the mark, and immediately put in place what they called kurzabeit. Through this short work-week program, the government paid people to stay on the job when they otherwise might have been let go.

        We got ahead of the curve,” one German labor minister said, “employment didn’t drop here the way it did in the US.” When the economy recovered, there was no incentive to hold off hiring because the people were already on the job. Their unemployment is now significantly lower than ours and the economy is booming.

        McNally: When asked why Obama didn’t pursue a similar policy to stem the economic bleeding, Larry Summers dismissed the idea, saying the White House wanted to create new jobs not preserve old ones.

        Geoghegan: A pretty lame answer.

        Terrence McNally: And an arrogant one. Good for you, Larry. What about the guy who lost his job? And his family and his kids?

        Geoghegan: Larry Summers is the villain of my book. He was an architect of deregulation, and was doing a war dance back in the late 1990′s about how the US model was triumphant over all. Now, the shoe’s on the other foot.

        McNally: What’s the status of the crisis in Europe right now? The EU includes not only virtuous, productive economies like Germany, but also others not nearly so.

        Geoghegan: Those less virtuous economies were the so-called “new Europe” that Donald Rumsfeld was touting. People in the countries that are in trouble now economically were the ones willing to go to Iraq — and there is a connection. These are the countries that were much more inclined to go the American route, going into debt heavily, using housing speculation as the engine of the economy, and opening their economies big time to global bank debt and finance.

        Goldman Sachs poured tons of money into Greece, and other New York, London and German banks poured money into Spain. None of the bubbles occurred in Germany and in the “old Europe” that Donald Rumsfeld wrote off. Part of Europe is in trouble to the extent — and only to the extent — that it’s involved in the American model. Those countries most resistant to the American model are doing fine.

        By the way, why was Goldman Sachs willing to lend money to weak economies like Greece? Because Greece was in the EU. Because Spain was in the EU. These countries would never have gotten all this money from US banks. And what is so important about the EU? At the end of the day the Germans with their trade surplus are able to pay — and in fact that’s what has happened.

        McNally: How is the relationship unfolding between Germany and the economies it is bailing out?
        Geoghegan: It’s working out pretty well. The Germans are doing even better because the Euro fell — it was overvalued to begin with — and that made German goods more competitive. After the great debt crisis, the Euro became relatively cheaper, and that made Germany more profitable as an export country. Greece didn’t collapse, partly because the Germans bailed it out and partly because there was belt tightening in Greece and plenty of tourists still coming in.

        McNally: By the way, Greece represents only 2% of the EU’s total GDP, whereas California represents 14% of the US. Yet when California reached out to the federal government for similar help, it didn’t get it.

        Geoghegan: You see a story in the New York Times every six weeks — ever since I graduated from college in 1971 — about how Europe is going to collapse. They come out like clockwork.

        McNally: I pulled one of those Times articles in May when the Greek crisis was hot. The headline: “Europeans Fear Crisis Threatens Liberal Benefits.” But you point out that when a country like Germany takes something away from the safety net, they usually balance it with a benefit.

        Geoghegan: They cut back on holiday and they add a nursing home benefit. But the US press always focuses on the cutback. One of the reasons I wrote this book was to show that there’s a leadership class over there that is very clever about these things. I don’t mean in a spurious, tricky way, but actually thinking, “What do we have to cut back now so that we can go forward in the future?”

        To quote a wonderful line from the Lampedusa novel, The Leopard: as the old order is collapsing, the Sicilian aristocrat says to his young prince, “We have to change so that everything remains the same.” How do you change social democracy so that you preserve it, and maybe even create an opportunity to expand it in a year or two when the wheel of fortune turns again?

        McNally: Let’s talk about some of the contrasts in the book between our culture and theirs. People here work nine more weeks per year.

        Geoghegan: In the US, the most driven work 2300 hours a year, and people a notch or two below the most driven are working 1800 hours a year. That doesn’t count hours that are off the clock.

        McNally: Why do we work so hard? You say one of the reasons is because we don’t have unions or job security. People are afraid that if they don’t work weekends and overtime, if they don’t skip their kid’s soccer game, they’ll get laid off.

        Geoghegan: Nobody knows who’s going to be laid off next. It’s all arbitrary, Chainsaw Al could knock down your cubicle door at any time. So everyone has an incentive to stay five minutes longer than everyone else, and that creates anarchy. According to labor economists Richard Freeman at Harvard and Linda Bell at Haverford, in the US there’s nobody to tell you to go home.

        McNally: Given the fact that we work more, are we more productive?

        Geoghegan: If you consider productivity as output per hour, working longer probably decreases it. My friend Isabelle came to the US to attend grad school at Northwestern, and was upset when she discovered there were no holidays here. In the middle of the year, I found her very stressed, and I figured out what was happening: she was working American hours with German efficiency. When you look at the fact that Germans rank at the top of the world in terms of export sales — on a par with the Chinese who work till they drop — you realize they must be doing something that makes them more efficient.

        Leisure time also has material value. The fact that Americans work longer and longer hours increases GDP per capita, but it doesn’t necessarily raise our standard of living.

        McNally: Americans don’t know how things actually work in European countries. For many people the fact that Germany is neck and neck with China as the number one exporting country — give or take the rise and fall of currency – must be mind blowing. Even progressives in America don’t look overseas for models that work. I find it almost pathological that our exceptionalism infects even those who assume they don’t believe in it.

        Geoghegan: I have a friend who’s just come back from being a journalist for a long time in France and now works as a political reporter in Washington DC. She recently told me, “It’s become impossible for me to stay in a carpool with other women journalists because all I do is say to them, ‘Oh, it’s so much better in France This is so much better If this happened we wouldn’t’ She said, “They’re just so sick of me, they don’t want to hear anything more about France.”

        In some ways it’s understandable and in some ways it’s tragic. Another journalist friend of mine told me, “The three most deadly words in American journalism are ‘in Sweden they’ People just won’t keep going from there, and why is that? These are economies that have developed a level of sophistication and look like the US in so many ways. People say, “Europe’s becoming just like America,” but it’s not.

        McNally: Let’s make a quick comparison of GDP. The problem with GDP is that it has only an addition side, it doesn’t have a subtraction side. So an auto accident increases GDP; crime increases GDP.

        Geoghegan: Waste and fraud and gambling; Katrina increases GDP; urban sprawl especially increases GDP. Hours stuck in traffic increase GDP.

        McNally: plus the fact that we’ve monetized so many things that we used to do for ourselves or for our families

        Geoghegan: You’re shelling out $50,000 in tuition for NYU law school and your counterpart in Europe is getting it for free. How pathetic for the poor European adding nothing to GDP. In America we’re increasing GDP, but dragging down people’s standard of living.

        It’s a very perverse system of accounting. You say it’s all addition and no subtraction, but it’s not even all addition. Nothing increases your well-being or your material standard of living as much as leisure time. Among the untouchables in India, of course, that’s absolutely not the case; leisure is a nightmare, unemployment is a nightmare. But for many, a loss of leisure is a loss of material value.

        For example, leisure to go to a free concert at Millennium Park in Chicago. It’s a glorious experience. People in Europe are gaga about it, because it’s the one thing in America that seems to them the most European — wonderful orchestras, pop bands, jazz bands, playing right in the middle of the city; gorgeous lawns; people picnicking, etc. — and it’s all free. It’s so un-American, there’s no money going out the door. It makes a mark on your life but you can’t turn it into a sum of dollars, so it doesn’t mean anything — even though of course it means everything.

        McNally: You say the three building blocks of German social democracy are the works councils, the election of boards of directors by workers as well as by hedge fund managers, and the regional wage setting institutions.

        Geoghegan: First: work councils. The analogy I used in the book is fictitious: Imagine you elect a works council from among the employees at the Barnes & Noble bookstore where you work. They don’t bargain for wages, that’s done by the unions; but they have all sorts of rights that relate to working time, who gets laid off, even whether the store is going to close or not. They can go in and look at the books. The management has to enter into agreements. The works council can’t dictate, but they have enormous influence over what working hours will be, who’s going to work when and how.

        Co-determined boards are mandated at German companies with 2000 employees or more, the global companies that are beating us, although you can have them in other situations. These are maybe more like super boards that don’t do as much day-to-day managing as our boards of directors do. It consists one half of people elected by and from the workers, and one half elected by the shareholders.

        The chairman of the board is selected by the shareholders and has a double vote so that, if there’s a tie between the shareholders and the employees, the shareholders win. But it creates a lot of potential influence over how the debate goes.

        McNally: But you also say that the shoe is on the other foot when it comes to choosing the CEO, correct?

        Geoghegan: If the shareholders are divided on who should be the next CEO, the clerks get to pick the king.

        McNally: In contract negotiations over the last 10, 15, 20 years, American workers have been giving back things, agreeing to two tiers, lowering their pension guarantees. I’ve never heard of any of them trading a concession for the right to elect members to the board.

        Geoghegan: The UAW had somebody on the board once.

        McNally: Management can’t even say it won’t work because Germany’s beating our pants in manufacturing, and the codetermined board is also spreading elsewhere, right?

        Geoghegan: The German model has made inroads on the US model in other European countries.

        McNally: You quote the German labor minister saying, “Our biggest export now is co-determination”. Now, third: regional or sector wage settling.

        Geoghegan: It’s much reduced these days, but they still have some version of regional wage bargaining setting standards that everybody has to comply with. That used to be true here — to a lesser extent than in Germany — but it’s disappeared.

        McNally: Are you talking about a situation where you would negotiate with one of the big three automakers and the others would basically get the same deal?

        Geoghegan: I was thinking more of the United Mineworkers negotiating a contract with multiple employer associations to produce a national agreement that covered every employer. That was true in the coal industry and with the Teamsters in the trucking industry.

        McNally: Agreements across a whole industry create a sense of transparency, right?

        Geoghegan: People know what their wages are. East Germany was a factor in the breakdown. You couldn’t really have the same labor costs and labor standards that you had in West Germany because the economy wasn’t at the same stage of development.

        IMcNally: f you compare your quality of life and the prospective quality of life for your children with the German quality of life, things are only getting worse. To cite just one example, economist Robert Frank talks about the fact that American families end up moving into neighborhoods they can’t afford because that’s where the good schools are, and I’m sure this played some role in the mortgage collapse.

        Geoghegan: We’d be much more competitive globally if Americans had six weeks off, and had a chance to go and see what people are doing in other countries. We’d come back much more sophisticated about them and probably have better ideas about how to sell things to them.

        McNally: You point out that as globalization grew, the US chose to compete on the basis of cheap labor by outsourcing. We kept the marketing and executives here and moved the manufacturing elsewhere. We’ve been playing that game for 20-30 years now. Germany chose to play the opposite game.

        Geoghegan: 30 years later the Germans are making money off of China, and China is making big time money off of us. One thing I really try to get across in the book: Many Americans think that we’ve got a trade deficit because we can’t compete with China. We’ve got a trade deficit because we can’t compete with Germany in selling things to China. Until people wake up and look at the kinds of things that the Germans are doing to keep their manufacturing base, we’re going to continue to run deficits which leave us in the clutches of foreign creditors and compromise our autonomy as a country.

        McNally: This is something that the right wing should be up in arms about.
        Geoghegan: Absolutely. And they’re clueless. They are mortgaging this country’s future and they’re too stupid to realize it.

        McNally: This seems like a good point to turn to “10 Things the Dems Could Do To Win,” a cover story I wrote for a recent issue of The Nation.

        Geoghegan: The Democrats have to do something for their base, keep it simple and make it universal. Unlike the healthcare bill which was perceived as a handout for “them”, the uninsured, many of them in red states. Democrats should focus on things that either give a direct benefit to people or give them a sense of power.

        For example, increase Social Security so that it’s a real public pension — push Social Security benefits up to 50% of people’s income. Of course we can’t do this overnight, but we can set it as a serious goal.

        McNally: Social security in the US is 39% at this point. In Germany it was 67%, but it’s dropped?

        Geoghegan: To the low fifties. But people have tons of money in the bank over there, there’s a high savings rate and, at least in the unions, they also have private pensions that work much better than in the US.

        McNally: They also don’t graduate college with thousands of dollars of debt that many will carry for the rest of their lives.

        Geoghegan: They do have a demographic crisis that they’re going to have to get through, but they’ve protected the system.

        McNally: Raising social security to 50% of working income means that when you go on to social security you’ll get half of what you were getting when you were working. Currently you get less than two-fifths.

        Geoghegan: The top 20 developed countries have an average rate of something like 60%, so we can do this.

        My second proposal is simply the most effective way to move ultimately to a single payer healthcare system, which I think we have to do. I would say that even if I didn’t think single payer were a better system. You have to have one consistent system of payment to get control of healthcare costs. All the European countries do. It doesn’t have to be single payer, but it has to be a consistent system. You can’t have a mix of private market and single payer.

        Let’s lower Medicare’s eligibility to 55. What brought back GM and Chrysler? The government came in and took away their retiree healthcare costs. We’ve got to lower labor costs not by bringing down wages — that would be a disaster, but by having the government assume wage labor costs that are making us less competitive. People of 55-65 will all vote for you because it will change their lives.

        McNally: Folks like Alan Simpson and Pete Peterson are going to say, “Wait a minute, you’re going in exactly the wrong direction.”

        Geoghegan: Social security basically is solvent now even at its current level. And I have ways of paying for it.

        First, if you brought back the estate tax and dedicated the proceeds to the Social Security trust–as Robert Ball, former Social Security commissioner, once proposed. Second, lift the cap on the Social Security tax — it’s at $90,000 now — so it applies to all incomes. After all, Social Security is for everyone. Third, if you did things like eliminate the corporate debt protection for debt that is used in leverage buyouts and non-productive uses right now, you could generate the financial reserve that could pay for this. Finally, I do think people should pay a little more for their Social Security because they’re going to get a better deal.

        All of these things have two purposes, to do something directly beneficial to the base now, and to do something that reduces the size and influence of the financial sector and increases the viability of manufacturing.

        Lowering the age for Medicare, for example, allows employers to substantially lower their labor costs for their most expensive workers. It’s not just to make them competitive, but it’s also to induce investment into manufacturing which is right now inhibited by the uncertainty of healthcare costs. Ultimately the goal of all of this is to get the US out of debt.

        The debt issue ought to be the Democrat’s issue not the Republicans. The real debt issue is our external trade deficit. We either have consumers go into debt to make the books balance at the end of the day as we did during the Bush era, or we have the federal government do it when consumers cut back. We don’t earn out way in the world, and until we do, we’re going to be running either large consumer debts which lead to private financial panics, or federal debt which could lead to a sovereign default. We’ve got to get out of that box, and the only way to do it is to put in measures that make our economy more competitive globally.
        McNally: You’re saying that Obama and the Democratic party could transform the issue of debts and deficits by offering solutions that are not just about paying today’s bill, but about restructuring our ability to pay the bill in the future.
        Geoghegan: We will never get out of debt until we confront our inability to pay our way in the world. Somebody is going to be in debt, whether it’s me the taxpayer paying off the federal deficit or me the consumer paying off my Visa card. It doesn’t make a whole lot of difference at the end of the day. The Democrats ought to present themselves as the party that has a plan to get the country out of debt.

        McNally: You also recommend a usury cap on credit cards.

        Geoghegan: You’ve got to get returns down in the financial sectors and returns up in manufacturing sectors. That’s the key. And proposing that will split the business community in this country in a very healthy way. The Democrats can be the party of the manufacturers, even if it’s at the expense of Wall Street. For years, the Democrats have slipped the other way. People perceive that and they’re frustrated by it.

        McNally: The financial sector currently funds both parties. Republicans get to be true to their convictions, while Democrats end up negotiating with themselves. Though they may have some progressive leanings, their funders pull them in the other direction.

        Geoghegan: Even progressive Democrats don’t have the sophistication of their counterparts on the left in France and Germany in terms of understanding how important it is not to run up a national debt. Here we march against Mexico and put up tariff walls. They don’t do that in Europe, they’re not that unsophisticated.

        McNally: Let me finish with a quote of yours that really struck me: Without an industrial base a democracy dies.

        Geoghegan: My own favorite ending line would be: Countries like Germany do both capitalism and socialism better than we do.

        Interviewer Terrence McNally hosts Free Forum on KPFK 90.7FM, Los Angeles and WBA I99.5FM, New York (streaming at kpfk.org and wbai.org). He also advises non-profits and foundations on communications. Visit terrencemcnally.net for podcasts of all interviews and more.

        • JeffH

          The New Republic is nothing more than a magazine that supports liberal social and social democratic economic policies. They also have a very limited readership.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JeffH,
            If all their collumns are as long and windy as that one and say absolutly nothing worth while like that one then I can see why they have a limited readership!!! By the time I got to the end of it I was almost cross-eyed and bored to death!!

          • JeffH

            Joe H., some people still can’t cut & paste then leave a link.

          • Eric Bischoff

            If that’s all you got from that story, you may be illiterate but I suspect that your ism and phobia filters are what’s keeping you from your god given potential and that’s a shame. I feel sorry for you.

          • Eric Bischoff

            If we followed your line of limited thinking, Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin or Tesla Motor’s small client list would imply that they are crap compared to the big mainstream car companies.

            I don’t understand how you can be for deregulation and small government but be supportive of large media conglomerates that promote only a few company’s products, services and ideas, as in the drug companies, the oil companies, coal companies, big Telecom companies and car companies, and help them shut out any competition therefore destroying the premise of competition and the free market system. You are supporting the rigging of the system so that the biggest bribes win.

            I thank god that these small magazines, non profit radio and TV are there to keep some kind of sanity to this madness. They are obviously labors of love as the people doing this will never get rich but they continue to do it because it is the right thing to do. Isn’t that what our declaration of independence our constitution and our bill of rights were for? to protect free speech and minorities from the oppressive mainstream mobs.

            If you are satisfied with mediocrity and propaganda then by all means keep limiting yourself to just watching Fox and the alphabet networks or reading People, The Wall St Journal, USA Today or your local papers which are all owned by just a few mega, mostly absent from your communities, corporations. Then go to a famous fast food joint and have your best you can ever get, subsidized by your dumb ass, food. A hormone and anitbiotics ladden, corn fed burger, some devoid of any nutrition french fries and a corn syrup sweet soda.

            IT takes all kinds to make a world and I am sorry but I cannot and will not follow your line of limited thinking and that’s what is great about this country, I don’t have to.

            So please reexamine your flawed thinking when you want government out of our lives while at the same time wishing you could silence alternative thinking.

          • JeffH

            Eric Bischoff continually says Baaaa, Baaaa, Baaaa….Yes Eric, were just a bunch of illiterate little followers, not big time liberal hacks for the Marxist in charge like you and your minions. Thanks but no thanks, I’ll continue to make my own judgements without the Marxist, socialists and communists influences, or just maybe they do have an influence afterall…I see by your posts that you are crtainly influenced by it all…a bit hypoctritical?

          • JeffH

            Oh Eric, the “I feel sorry for you” comments don’t hold any water around here. It is used quite freely by the liberal hacks on this website and is nothing more than an untruth.

          • DaveH

            Ignorant Eric,
            Those Big Corporations, that you so despise, couldn’t shut out their competition without the help of Big Government regulations. The big companies can afford the cadres of lawyers and paper-pushers to comply with the myriad regulations that you advocate. The small companies can’t. It is you and your ignorant cohorts that unwittingly promote those crony capitalists. Without Government intrusion into the marketplace, the consumer would be king rather than the bought and paid-for bureaucrats. Without Big Government, those Big Corporations would have to please the consumers, rather than greasing the correct political palms to squelch their competition.
            It’s pathetic that you are so ignorant as to fear private corporatists who couldn’t force us to do anything (without the force of Big Government), yet turn around and trust the people in Government who can use force against us, and who have little to lose if they don’t please us. The kind of people who will condescendingly ignore the will of the people and say things like “We need to pass ObamaCare so that the public can find out what’s in the bill”.
            And you have the nerve to condescend us? You are a nitwit, Eric.

        • DaveH

          Carole,
          What is it with you Liberals and your cutting and pasting of long articles? You could simply post the link to your Liberal nonsense. Such as:
          http://www.alternet.org/economy/148501/why_germany_has_it_so_good_–_and_why_america_is_going_down_the_drain?page=1

          So, explain to me, Carole, how six weeks of mandated vacation, free nursing care, and free university tuition is going to make people more productive when they finally actually do some work? Do they then work harder (a lot harder) during that little time they actually do work?
          The United States Gross Domestic Product is about $14 Trillion. Our population is about 330 million people. That is approximately $42,000 per person per year.
          Germany’s GDP is about $3 Trillion. Their population is about 83 million people. That is approximately $36,000 per person per year.
          Why would we want to imitate people who are less successful than we are?
          In the past, we could work hard, save and invest our money wisely, and take all the vacation we wanted after reaching our goals. Now, thanks to useless Big Government loving Liberals, we are more and more becoming trapped in the drudgery dictated to us by the Government.

          • DaveH

            Germany’s Government currently spends 44% of GDP each year. Their Tax Take is 41% of GDP each year. That means they must borrow an additional 3% of GDP each year which adds to the existing Debt. So in ten years, at that rate, their debt load will have increased by 35% of GDP. How long do you suppose they can keep that up before their Government is overcome by the debt?

        • http://MicrosoftOutlook Cathy

          Bottom line is that there is no such thing as a free lunch. I have a friend whose daughter has just gone to Germany to teach. She said they pay 65% of their income in taxes, and electricity is so expensive that people don’t use their clothes dryers. They hang their clothes outside on lines or inside. Where she lives if you find something you like in a grocery store, buy several of the items because you may not find them when you go back again. This is a socialistic country, but changes are coming to Europe. Look what’s happening in France. The workers are protesting in the streets because they don’t want their retirement age raised to 62 from 60. This is their entitlement mindset. We are in a battle in this country for our future. Nancy Pelosi, in a speech in PA, spoke about wealth redistribution. It even sounded like she was talking about redistribution of property. I wonder if she included herself in this. Is she willing to give some of her millions to people in the lower brackets so that we can all live as one or is it only our money and property she is talking about.

          We have a lot of people supporting these Democrats in their quest to destroy our way of life, but they must not think they will be affected. I have news for them; they will go down with the rest of us.

  • Anthony

    Good write-up, Bob. Yet, I would ask… Whenever someone cites a POLL (almost as if we’re talking about High School popularity, btw), why is it no one ever lists a LINK to that POLL so the rest of the Nation can actually read the questions for themselves(?)

    How are the questions worded?
    Are they depicting in the news story a correct corrolation from those questions?
    Or, are they stretching a thin premise as if it’s the real & basic structure of the Polling Questions?
    Can the People see an Agenda behind the Poll?
    Or is it just out to find information / tracking consumers, as it were?

    I think I’ve actually read (after the fact) maybe two or three polls in my entire time online. You always hear about a POLL, but in that Article or the telling of it, you simply do not see the questionnaire listed within.

    As most can surmise, all Polling Questions can be designed to manipulate the public into an answer more desired by the Creator of the Poll. And, this is where the pittfalls occur.

    At the very least, we’ve been able to extrapolate for quite some time now, Polls will be designed to have a slant to them and the end results will be manipulated for the desired outcome by the group producing said POLL in the first place.

    A poll wlll be used most often to foment the (false) Left/Right Paradigm as a decoy conversation. It is the most often used discussion in politics. Real governmental policy discussions do not occur with the public involved – it is always after the fact (i.e.: “we must vote on the Bill, so we can read it” – Nancy Pelosi … if this isn’t wagging the dog, I don’t know what is)

    Nowadays, there are enough documentaries on YouTube and/or Google (alone) to keep on away from the alpha waves of your TV sets, for many weeks – especially if you dare to research the comments and evidence given within. Many people simply will not drive themselves in that direction, due to fear that they’ve been had all their lives – standing up for the status quo is all they know, or dare to know.

    The real danger to POLLS, is the fact that those running them, can (and do?) falsify whatever the outcome might be, so as to re-direct what the bandwagon-wannabe’s of our citizenry’s attitudes and intentions on the political landscape …. this happens a lot more than just about anyone here would like to admit.

    My stance is -
    Dems always get a boost by at least 20-25%
    Repubs usually get a deflation of about the same amount. 20-25%

    Next time, as you look at any POLL, try and remember this simple math and extrapolate the numbers you are hearing … see how you feel then…

    AND, AREN’T YOU THE LEAST BIT CURIOUS AS TO WHAT THE ACTUAL QUESTIONS WERE….EVEN IN THIS AMBIGUOUS POLL ?

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston
      • Conservative at Birth

        I don’t see how this poll can be skewed one way or another. Simple and straight forward question.

        • Craig

          Any poll that does not favor the libs is skewed. Just like the Black Panthers were not intimidating other voter and Moochelle Oidiot was not breaking the law by pushing other to vote for her idiot husband Marxist agenda.

      • Vicki

        I checked the poll too. Pretty straight forward questions without much leading of the viewer at all.

    • Vicki

      Anthony writes:
      “A poll wlll be used most often to foment the (false) Left/Right Paradigm as a decoy conversation. It is the most often used discussion in politics. Real governmental policy discussions do not occur with the public involved – it is always after the fact (i.e.: “we must vote on the Bill, so we can read it” – Nancy Pelosi … if this isn’t wagging the dog, I don’t know what is)”

      What she actually said is far more obnoxious than implied above
      “We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it..”
      http://blog.heritage.org/2010/03/10/video-of-the-week-we-have-to-pass-the-bill-so-you-can-find-out-what-is-in-it/

  • s c

    Hopefully, there is such a thing as an objective poll (somewhere). I suspect most pollsters are tempted to manipulate their findings, and the easiest way to do it is to ‘load’ the questions.
    Now that people are finally beginning to understand what is so wrong with a government that never hesitates to coerce its citizens (yes, both parties), it is possible that those same people might even begin to rely less on a subjective media
    and get information on their own.
    In case some folks start whizzing and moaning about the “purity” of their favorite pollster(s), they would do well to remember (and ADMIT) that pollsters rarely gather information unless there is a monetary incentive to create that poll in the first place.

    • Al Sieber

      SC,I agree with you, good point. people need to do their own research. and I believe there is manipulation going on.

      • dan az

        Hey Al
        I couldn’t agree more.Untill they poll 150 million people then I would agree that they where only half right!

        • Jana

          The biggest and best poll of all will be Nov. 2.

          • dan az

            Jana
            We can only hope!

          • Christin

            dan az,

            “We can” do more than “only hope”… “we can pray” to an Almighty God.

    • Anthony

      Thanks for the assist, SC. I agree, but I would extend the thought into the realm of THEY ARE ALREADY DOING SO, and HAVE BEEN FOR A LONG LONG TIME. How many people do you know that can’t stop themselves from blaming Reagan, for all sorts of B$..? Yet, despite the CFR monkees he was surrounded by, Ronald Reagan’s message shined thru and reached the people no matter how long and loud Dan Rather or Peter Jennings would scream or contradict.

      Sure, there was a lot of nonsense during the Eighties, especially in Central America… and elsewhere… but do your homework and you will find it was the likes of Volcker, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and the Leadership of the DEM party (in ultimate power) that were involved in all phases of such nonsense.

      To this day, I stand by the stance that Reagan’s jellybeans were LOADED with ASPARTAME…. moreso than anything you might find on the Store shelves. His alzheimer’s came on soooo sudden, like no one elese I’ve ever heard of… No other explanation has credibility.

      In my perview – the Media has been loading the POLLING questions since the days of LBJ and so on. Whichever way supported the real stance of those who control our currency … if it made us feel good and kept us at bay, while they altered the Stock Market of the Dollar
      Gold standard…. then, so be it.

      LBJ had the USS Liberty…. How many of you spoke out against it?
      Nixon pulled the dollar off the gold standard.. under a misconception of finance tactics? A debate, to be sure.

      Only Ford & Reagan were not members of the CFR and became President in spite of that fact. SInce it’s inception, all other Presidents WERE members of the CFR… and YOU, the People, had no say in what chouce you voted for.

      I say the POLLING nonsense (thanks for the Link, Bob) is still a red herring and consistently a setup …when the Nightly News will NOT show you what the questions were… and that is my MAIN point.

      Why do they avoid showing us the questions, when they announce the results on the 6 o’clock news ?

      • DaveH

        Anthony,
        Even with his diminishing brain, Reagan had more wisdom that the vast majority of other politicians. Of course, maybe the others weren’t ignorant at all, but just evil.

      • Jana

        Anthony,
        Are you sure your real name isn’t Thomas?

      • dan az

        Anthony
        If you remember Janet Rieno also got alzheimer’s right after waco pretty suddenly too!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      sc,
      I wonder where Anthony is NOW???

  • Angel Wannabe

    I don’t trust polls, numbers can be manipulated just like the Washington manipulates us! I’d like to know what the hell all these power hungry elitists are going to do, when there’s no more power or money left to steal?___ Washington’s greed, reminds me of the famous Charles Dickens story “A Christmas Carol” with Scrooge played by, Alistair Sim. I can still see him counting his money at seven o’clock in the evening, before closing the shop, and reluctantly visiting his sick and dying partner Jacob Marley. There is a hell-of-a-lotta SCROOGES in Washington these days. Integrity, caring for fellow man, has slowly but deliberately been replaced with, “that Government is the answer,and you need us attitude”. Waaay too many people have swallowed this bitter pill and all of us now are paying for it. Those of you who are still asleep at the wheel, Wake the hell up folks, “Watch what Washington Does, Not What it Says”!_-Stay on it!!

  • CLARENCE SWINNEY

    Sorry Bob Your ceation ?”Big Government” by Reagan + Bush
    is not our imminent threat to Democracy.

    It Is Your creation of WSA–Wall Street Of America–

    Your pals created the Great Redistribution of Income and Wealth to 1% or 1.2 millionultra rich. Yes Bob! You. You. You.

    Let 1% go from 20% Total Fianancial Wealth in 1980 to 43% in 2009.
    From Ten percent of Total Income to 24% in 2009

    Yes Bob, You created a Third World called Wall Street Of America formerly United States Of America.

    You Bob increased spending by 80% and Debt by 170% from 1980 to 1989.
    Yes! You Bob increased spending and debt each by 100% from 2000-2009

    Yes! You, created 99,000 net new jobs in 20 years just enough to cover new entries into the work force.

    Yes! It was not Clinton or Carter who in 12 years created 222,000 per month.

    Yes! It was you who freed banks where large investment Gamblers could own all our bank assets for their Gambling Empire.

    Yes! It was you who modernized financial empire to allow unrestricted Gambling in your new CASINO DERIVATIVE OF AMERICA.

    • LiarsMustBeDefeated

      You don’t make any sense at all. Why don’t you explain yourself so us idiots can understand it? What are you talking about? I don’t think anyone can take you seriously.

      • libertytrain

        I was trying to make sense of it as well and couldn’t either. Poor guy.

      • Eric Bischoff

        Made perfect sense to me. Maybe that’s because it’s not really news to me.

        • DaveH

          All anybody, who really wants to learn, has to do is go to the congressional websites and see which party votes for the spending bills and regulatory bills. It’s pretty obvious from that which party votes the most for Big Government. I’m no champion for Republicans but they are dwarfed by the Democrats when it comes to building government bigger.
          Link for the House:
          http://clerk.house.gov/

          • DaveH

            Link for the Senate:
            http://www.senate.gov/

          • Angel Wannabe

            At’s what I say DaveH, we have to watch them all now, but it’s STILL comes down to the “lesser of two evils”! With that said, Alot of folks are calling for a third party, that in itself is going to take way more time, than two or three voting cycles to get moving and we’re going to need alot more eyes, if that happens!

          • Kate8

            Check out this painting of Obama by Jon McNaughton. It is a powerful message, and says it all:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KGlBHyVeYU

            A picture is worth a thousand words.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Kate8, Ok, wait til I dry my friggin’ eyes!,__ I’m an artist as well, been in a few magazines and couple of TV stints___ but I’m not so big headed, that I cannot, see such a true and profound talent, such as this man, and this painting___IT’S JUST BREATH TAKING & SAYS IT ALL!___Thanks so much for sharing!!!__I’m sending it along!

          • JeffH

            Kate8, a very powerful message and presentation.

          • Vicki

            Thanks Kate8 That was breathtaking.

          • Palin12

            Excellent kate. Thanks for sharing.

          • Jana

            Wow Kate8,
            I have an email of that painting and you can put the curser on each individual Pres. and it tells a little about him, but hearing the artist was just heart rendering.

    • The Shrimper

      Wow,…
      An Obama/democrat drone…… not that such imbecilic nonsense even warrants a substantive reply, but I just couldn’t resist.
      At least it appears this drone has absorbed the class-envy, hate-the-rich crap and managed to regurgitate it with reasonable accuracy. You got the “blame Bush” part, even managed to pull in Reagan. Impressive.
      Yes, you Bob, have managed to do ALL this as a private citizen.. You are truly a remarkable, almost god-like figure. No wait.. I think we’ve been told the name is Barack.
      Actually , the really sad thing is that this moron has the ability to cancel out at least one vote of substance. But, that is the system.

      • slickporsche

        I think what this idiot is trying to say is that you would mean all US citizens, and of course BOB. I think.

        • DaWitchesBroom

          I think he posted into the wrong article. He is trying to ask retorical questions about financial policy matters that he thinks caused the financial crisis such as the blending of lending and investment banking and other matters. He blames the republicans and people who are connected to Wall Street such as dear ole Bob. Blame is a free and plentiful commodity at all times. Stocks, bonds, currencies, commodities, and the whole lot of derivatives, swaps, hedges are a gamble. Better believe that.

    • alpha-lemming

      Do you suppose that discrepancy has anything to do with Government intrusions and forever taking bigger pieces of the pie (well over 1/2 and appraoching 2/3 of peoples income when you combine “hard” taxes plus the unseen but very real bureaucracy that increases the cost of everything)? When squeezed, businesses answer has ALWAYS been to operate “leaner and meaner”… do more with less, get 150% out of employees and in a worst case scenerio… reduce the work force and get the remainder to put out 150%. That’s the way it’s gonna stay until Government gets SERIOUSLY pruned back… at least a third!! While still profitable, our place is running around like a NASCAR pit-crew just to stay even. New hires have always been a lagging indicator as to the health of an economy.

      Finally, your hatred of Reagan is WELL documented in your rantings but it wasn’t he who SPENT anything but rather your beloved progressives (same thing in the new millenium but with Rs beside their names… still progressives…. add in 9-11 and 2 wars). History and his legacy MUST be destroyed beacuse QED… OUTCOMES/RESULTS prove he’s right and subsequently are fatal to the lefts’ governing theories.

    • TIME

      Clarenceee,
      It would seem you fail to grasp much of anything per your post over and over again. So on that note let me give you a base education in simple math.

      Wall Street is main Street dude, With the stock market not only will the company grow, but so to will peoples 401 K’s, or Retirement funds, or just monthly income if stocks are how you make you monthly nut, of what many do.

      Do the traders make money, you bet ya they do, but it on VOLUME, so if 500 million stocks trade at a $1.00 profit to the stock broker, and a $5.00 profit to the stock holder, the Broker makes, $500 Million, the stock holders make $2.5 billion.

      Then in steps the Government who then takes 50% of all the net profits, then the Government waste that money of people who will not even try and work for a living, or Illegal’s, or BS wars, or on what ever waste of the moment the government can conjure up, aslo known as Voodoo Politic’s.

      But, as you seem to be filled with the “BIG GREEN ENVY bug,” that all may still be just to much for your limited amount of gray matter to grasp.
      Perhaps a visit to a good shrink would give you some aid with your Big Green ENVY bug problems. They do have meds for people like you, you do know that right?

    • JeffH

      CLARENCE SWINNEY, once again I’ll point out that CLARENCE SWINNEY makes his living from writing and blogging for the Democratic Underground, blogging in the Huffington Post and In These Times.

      • JC

        And typically Jeff, none of it bears up to any amount of scrutiny and none of it results in a full circle thought…that reaches logical conclusions. Just as none of it takes into account a number of influential factors…like over bearing government intrusion from both sides of the aisle.
        It’s just carefully (or not so) worde bits of propoganda strung together in order to evoke an emotional reaction.
        (Yes we can Yes we can,) ;)

    • Gary

      WTF dude? What are you on?

  • Mick

    Mick says:
    October 15, 2010 at 8:41 am
    Al Sieber says:
    October 14, 2010 at 8:50 pm
    Mick, you have to be careful feeding those Burro’s to many carrots because of the sugar content, I’ve seen one drop over dead because of that, a baby I mean. they also like beer too. I live 5 miles out of Oatman, lots of Big Horn sheep on my property, interesting animals.
    *********************************************
    Good morning Al… Never got to answer you yesterday.

    I was made aware that giving carrots to these gorgeous little babies was dangerous to them and although it bothered me not to be able to spoil the little things I restrained myself, I certainly didn’t want to be the cause to bring them harm.
    I always look for Big Horns but they’re hard to spot when you’re driving they blend so well with the background.Got lucky a couple years ago and spotted some on 160 in NV near Mountain spring,They’re certainly more interesting than the bunch of polical crooks we have to deal with now days…….

  • The Shrimper

    Right on Angel….. !!!
    Just remember folks the old saying….”the way you can tell when a politician is lying to you??… when his/her lips are moving.”
    It’s not what they say…… it’s all about what they do.
    Can’t wait to hit the flush lever on Nov. 2nd.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Shrimper__WHOOOOSH!!!__LOL

  • LiarsMustBeDefeated

    Vote every day using your pocketbook. When you buy gold, for example, you are saying “gold good, dollar bad” When you do less taxable business you are saying “My freedom good, taxes to support the government bad.”

  • CLARENCE SWINNEY

    Durn Bob. You took my post before I was finished and edited for accuracy and spelling?? Shame!

    Yes! It was you Bob who in 8 years in the Bush created 31,000 net new jobs per month. A wee bit down from Lord Bill 237,000!

    Why Bob did you allow your Ultra Rich to rush imto Derivative Casino and leave investments in stock market assets to build firms snd jobs???

    You know Bob that Casino Derivative has no assets.
    You know Bob that Casino Derivative adds no value to our economy.
    Why Bob why did you allow it? Why Bob?

    Why Bob Why did you do it to 120,000,000 middle class workers who gained 0 zero zero from 1980 to 2009??? Why Bob?

    You Bob have created a Third World Nation.

    Prove me wrong with numbers and facts not rhetoric. Si Senor!
    clarence swinney olduglymeanhonest mad mad mad
    Political Historian Lifeaholics Of America
    Burlington NC

    • Bitter Libertarian

      You focus on the Actors: Bush, Clinton, Carter, etc, and the other “cast of 500+”
      Eliminate the Private bank = The federal reserve..till you realize they are the “directors” and FOCUS on them, America is screwed.

    • s c

      CS, who are you jiving with that cosmic debris? To paraphrase one of your progressive chums, ‘yo haid ain’t connected to yo bod,’ dude. Next time, use English, make sense, take your prozac (or lsd) before you pound on the keyboard and have someone check your diatribe before you make a complete ASS of yourself – again.
      I’ve graded papers written by 7th graders who make more sense than you do. So, did you get as far as the 7th grade?

      • Warrior

        Ha! Poodle bites, Poodle chews it. I may have to listen to some Zappa tonight.

    • Conservative at Birth

      Why are you on this site?

    • JeffH

      JeffH says:
      October 15, 2010 at 2:31 pm
      CLARENCE SWINNEY, once again I’ll point out that CLARENCE SWINNEY makes his living from writing and blogging for the Democratic Underground, blogging in the Huffington Post and In These Times.

      • Jana

        Clarence S sure doesn’t sound like the brightest color in the box.

    • libertytrain

      Why are you blaming Bob for taking the comment before you were done – a little paranoid here perhaps? – he didn’t submit it, you did.

      • JeffH

        libertytrain, I think that CLARENCE SWINNEY is very jealous of Bob Livingston’s Personal Liberty Digest. It is Mr.Livingston who seeks the truth and publishes his own newsletter and website and provides so many of us the avenue to share, agree, discuss, argue and disagree which may very well be exactly what Mr. Swinney wants but hasn’t succeeded in acquiring…he has crossed into “enemy” territory without success. Thus the jealousy.

        • libertytrain

          I think that’s a problem with many of the leftist posters who can’t seem to get enough of this site despite their purported disdain for all of us.

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, eventually they end up moving on to somewhere else with the exception of just a few who drop by from time to time to tell some of us how stupid, ignorant and uneducated we are.

          • libertytrain

            Good point…I still always have to laugh at their attempts to put us in our place—

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, I can just imagine one of the standing in front of their PC, hands on hips, thinking or even saying “I really told them”!

          • libertytrain

            Jeff – I see it as well – I think that’s what makes me giggle more.

    • JC

      How many of those jobs created were government or civil service jobs?

    • spike

      WHO THE HEL* IS BOB!!!!????

      • Karolyn

        A little slow are we? “Bob” as in “Bob” Livingston who wrote the article.

    • Gary

      Clarence, You are nuts.

    • http://naver sook young

      You say you are a historian? I don’t know about you, but you don’t sound anything factual like my husband Samurai. Please tell us the truth and you may get a lot of responses. Thank you.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai
      Vote November 2!

  • Bitter Libertarian

    Polls are “ok” but I dont need a poll, I’ve never seen so many Gadsden Flags in CT! Still not enough…too many lazy, sleepy, ignorant zombies sticking to their “party” loyalties…

  • Donald Butler

    Polls? A “snapshot” in time. The republicans will win the house and God willing the senate. Problem: RINO’S, i.e., McCain and his ilk, based on their previous behavior simply will not have the backbone necessary to get the job done! First priority? Repeal Obamacare! Secondly! Impeach him and his commie czars! Let’s hope they will! Failing to do so they will have betrayed the clear-thinking American people (led by the teaparty!)who have placed the future of this country in their hands! A huge responsibilty! Are they up to the job? Who knows? Who can say? Let’s keep their feet to the fire! America’s future hangs in the balance. We must stop the progressives (commies!) in their tracks, before they destroy everything previous generations have worked so hard for, the wars fought and won! We must not allow all the blood, sweat & tears spent building our nation to be destroyed by one man & his commie cronies attempts to spend us into oblivion! Any economist worth his salt will tell you when the government spends more than 40% of the GDP, the free market system can no longer endure! We are there now! We are surviving as a free people under what is left of a free enterprise system burdened down with debt to the tune of 100 trillion dollars to be passed on to future generations! Our government is now being run into the ground by Obama & his commie czars! Should you doubt this, do the research! Wake up America! God bless America..again, should be the prayer of every American as we enter the single most important mid-term election in this nations history! Will Republicans man-up to the challange awaiting them? Or will they, as many fear, wilt as shrinking violets! We all know of the few Jim DeMints’ that will, and the all too many McCain’s (RINO’S) that will betray the public trust and will not!

    We’ll see! Won’t We?

    Donald Butler

    Don Butler

    • Bitter Libertarian

      We need to OUST the Shadow Corporate Govt as well my Friend!

      • Conservative at Birth

        Audit the Fed

        • Bitter Libertarian

          Congress doesnt have to repeal Health care..Just a Full blown audit of the Fed, then legislation to repeal the 16th amendment, the IRS and all the RATS will leave their sinking ship.

          • TIME

            BL, Strong points dude!

          • JC

            Actually Congress DOES have to repeal the Kenyan health care act…it gives government WAY too much control over everything we do.
            Plus everything else you suggest.

          • http://naver sook young

            I was looking in my books and came across what you are saying. I agree with what you say libertytrain, but can’t they just decide not to give money to it? If there is no money, then there is no problem right? I guess I could tell the president, no money no honey? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai
            DON’T TREAD ON ME!

            P.S. My husband has been admitted into the hospital and is very sick, so he’ll be unable to post for awile. I’m currently posting from my laptop in his room. I hope he gets well soon. I would like us to vote together next month.

          • JC

            Prayer for Samurai…stay strong, get well.

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry, I meant bitter libertarian.

          • http://naver sook young

            Thank you JC. I’m sure my husband will appreciate the thought. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Kate8

            sook young, I’m so sorry to learn that samurai is ill.

            He will be in my prayers, as well.

            Godspeed.

          • JeffH

            sook young, please let brother samurai know our hearts and prayer are with him…he’s a fellow freedom fighter.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Sook Young,
            My prayers are added as well!!! give my best to your freedom fighter. In honor of him, For God And Country!!!

          • http://naver sook young

            Thank you all for those kind words. He has a very severe case of what we call 폐렴 or pneumonia. I’ve been watching over him since Friday. Since I have many friends and co-workers at this hospital, I know he is in good hands. I also pray over him everyday. I also want to help out in this fight for America. As my husband would say: “FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!”

          • Claire

            sook young–I just read your post. I pray for a speedy recovery and tell him to take care of himself.

          • Christin

            sook,
            I will pray that our Lord, The Great Physician, will put his healing hands on Samurai that he would be well and back to great health very soon and that you, sook, will remain healthy and strong.
            God Bless you both.

          • http://naver sook young

            Thank you Claire! I see my husband has lots of support here also. Thank you all very much!

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai
            Vote November 2!

          • http://naver sook young

            Thank you Christin!

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai
            Vote November 2!

        • Angel Wannabe

          cab, JFK tried to get rid of the federal reserve, withn 6 months he was dead__Co-incidence?

          • TIME

            Angel,
            JFK, said in one of his speaches 48 hours before he went to Texas, he was going to expose to the American people who really was running the country. Thats what got him.
            His brother Bobby said he was going to expose what happened to his brother and open JFK’s sealed file to expose the truth.

          • JeffH

            …Abe Lincoln fully resisted borrowing any “European” money and a debt to the Rothschild’s Banks to finance the Civil War and he also ended up dead.

          • spike

            JC AND ANGEL;
            Can we repeal this thing? Or will Obama veto it?????

          • Angel Wannabe

            Your right Right Jeff and Time!!!__ I agree the fed reserve gotta go, the question is, AGAIN, who’ll take the risk?___
            ____________________________________________________

            SPIKE__if the repubs take majority over the House and Senate, they’d had better know, the people are no longer taking a back seat to them! We aren’t going to give them the reigns only to have them hang us “we the people anymore!”
            We’re gonna, watch and holdem accountable!__As far as Obama vetoing?__Hell yes, he’s gonna veto! Health care reform is his baby, in no way is he gonna let ANYONE adopt it out either!!___I the think HCR is absolutely unconstitutional, I think the courts do too, or they wouldn’t allow to move ahead with the procedure, UNLESS it’s a ploy, to get the States hopes up, only to dump them on they’re head___Time will tell Spike!!!

          • Angel Wannabe

            Time_ Jeffh___My last post strangly disappeared__Hmm?
            But any at rate I fully agree!

            SPIKE as far Obama vetoing a repeal of HCR, if infact it can be repealed?__Hell yes he’s gonna veto it, HCR is his baby and he’s not likely to to adopt it out!___It is however encouraging, that the courts are allowing it to go forth, but we have to remain cautious, it may be a ploy, to drop us on our heads later on! The repubs have to know, that if we hand them the reigns (both houses) in November, and they try to hang we the people with the reigns, we will hold them to accountability!__We’ve got to stay alert!!

          • Kate8

            Angel-, JeffH, libertytrain, Vicki, Christin and the rest of the patriots, maybe this will help you feel a bit better:

            VERIFIED BY SNOPES . . . .

            OBama May Be In Deep Trouble…

            Chief Justice John Roberts, U.S. Supreme Court.
            According to sources who watch the inner workings of the federal government,
            a smackdown of Barack Obama by the U.S. Supreme Court may be inevitable.
            Ever since Obama assumed the office of President, critics have hammered him on a number of Constitutional issues.
            Critics have complained that much, if not all of Obama’s major initiatives run headlong into Constitutional roadblocks on the power of the federal government.
            Obama certainly did not help himself in the eyes of the Court when he used the venue of the State of the Union address early in the year to publicly flog the Court over its ruling that the First Amendment grants the right to various organizations to run political ads during the time of an election.
            The tongue-lashing clearly did not sit well with the Court, as demonstrated by Justice Sam Alito, who publicly shook his head and stated under his breath, ‘That’s not true,’when Obama told a flat-out lie concerning the Court’s ruling.
            As it has turned out, this was a watershed moment in the relationship between the executive and the judicial branches of the federal government. Obama publicly declared war on the court, even as he blatantly continued to propose legislation that flies in the face of every known Constitutional principle upon which this nation has stood for over 200 years.
            Obama has even identified Chief Justice John Roberts as his number one enemy, that is, apart from Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, and so on.
            And it is no accident that the one swing-vote on the court, Justice Anthony Kennedy, stated recently that he has no intention of retiring until ‘Obama is gone.’
            Apparently, the Court has had enough.
            The Roberts Court has signaled, in a very subtle manner, of course, that it intends to address the issues about which Obama critics have been screaming to high heaven.
            A ruling against Obama on any one of these important issues could potentially cripple the Administration.
            Such a thing would be long overdue.
            First, there is ObamaCare, which violates the Constitutional principle barring the federal government from forcing citizens to purchase something.
            And no, this is not the same thing as states requiring drivers to purchase car insurance, as some of the intellectually-impaired claim.
            The Constitution limits FEDERAL government, not state governments, from such things, and further, not everyone has to drive, and thus, a citizen could opt not to purchase car insurance by simply deciding not to drive a vehicle.
            In the ObamaCare world, however, no citizen can ‘opt out.’
            Second, sources state that the Roberts court has quietly accepted information concerning discrepancies in Obama’s history that raise serious questions about his eligibility for the office of President.
            The charge goes far beyond the birth certificate issue. This information involves possible fraudulent use of a Social Security number in Connecticut, while Obama was a high school student in Hawaii.
            And that is only the tip of the iceberg.
            Third, several cases involving possible criminal activity, conflicts of interest, and pay-for-play cronyism could potentially land many Administration officials, if not Obama himself, in hot water with the Court.
            Frankly, in the years this writer has observed politics, nothing comes close to comparing with the rampant corruption of this Administration, not even during the Nixon years.
            Nixon and the Watergate conspirators look like choirboys compared to the jokers that populate this Administration.
            In addition, the Court will eventually be forced to rule on the dreadful decision of the Obama DOJ suing the state of Arizona.
            That, too, could send the Obama doctrine of open borders to an early grave, given that the Administration refuses to enforce federal law on illegal aliens.
            And finally, the biggie that could potentially send the entire house of cards tumbling in a free-fall is the latest revelation concerning the Obama-Holder Department of Justice and its refusal to pursue the New Black Panther Party.
            The group was caught on tape committing felonies by attempting to intimidate Caucasianvoters into staying away from the polls.
            A whistle-blower who resigned from the DOJ is now charging Holder with the deliberate refusal to pursue cases against Blacks, particularly those who are involved in radical hate-groups, such as the New Black Panthers, who have been caught on tape calling for the murder of white people and their babies.
            This one is a biggie that could send the entire Administration crumbling–that is, if the Justices have the guts to draw a line in the sand at the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

          • JeffH

            Kate8, I won’t hold my breath just yet.

          • Kate8

            JeffH – I know what you mean. I just try to find any glimmers of hope that some of our leaders will have the courage to do the right thing.

            I’m not holding my breath, either, but I do pray every day that America will get her bearings. We can’t just focus on the bad stuff.

          • Kate8

            Angel, It certainly worked to silence anyone else from attempting to expose them.

            The think is, everyone knows it now. I guess they figure we can’t stop them anymore, so it doesn’t matter. Just look at Ron Paul. I can’t help but wonder if they are using him (knowingly or not) to pull out the opposition.

            Just look at ho many in Congress SUPPORT what the Fed is doing.

          • Vigilant

            Spike,

            As long as Obama is president, Congress does not have the 2/3 majority to override a veto. However, they can take a first step by refusing to fund the program. I don’t believe it takes more than a majority vote to stop the appropriation.

          • Claire

            JFK and Bobby–geez, I wish they had lived. I wish the people behind their killings were caught–I wish I knew the true story and WHO had them killed. The killers are probably all dead by now, hope they are rotting in hell.

          • Christin

            kate8,
            Thanks and Yes, I did get that info already via e-mail.
            Don’t know if there is real strength behind the charges… and don’t know if the brave souls can get this brought forth to court or get the public attention it deserves to open the cases and get to the TRUTH… and prosecute.
            We can PRAY TRUTH prevails and justice is served.

        • BrotherPatriot

          Abolish the Fed & let’s print our own money without interest!

          • Angel Wannabe

            Brother Patriot, but who is willing to take the risk?

          • EltonJ

            If we don’t Abolish the Fed, Israel’s Ishi (husband) WILL! And his method is nasty. So, better us than him. We would be much more merciful in killing our central bank. Where’s Andrew Jackson when you need him?

          • JC

            •Andrew Jackson addressing the US Bankers Association. Long version…

            Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you. And when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves.

            Still going on today.

    • http://n/a Jo Walczak

      Dear Mr.Butler,
      Thank you so much for your wonderful answer!
      I pray for our Country& hope we will be able to
      at least start on the road to sanity.Alas there
      are way too many months left before 2012 and the
      blame game will really start in.
      Sincerely Joanne Walczak

    • Vigilant

      Donald:

      Excellent post. I wish we could impeach him for his cavalier treatment of the Constitution, but the number of votes will not be there in Congress to do it.

      Much like the Clinton impeachment, the Dems would demonstrate their disdain for the Constitution by voting on purely political lines. When a president puts his hand on the Bible and takes a solemn oath to tell the truth, and commits perjury as Clinton did, it shouldn’t matter whether he’s Dem. or Repub., he has committed a Constitutionallly impeachable offense and should be convicted.

      • BrotherPatriot

        As usual, Vigilant…well said & truth!

        If the right thing were to be done…most all our government employees who are supposed to Serve the American people…would be fired. It would cause a great deal of issues…but…America would survive and be the better for it. Constitutional Representatives would then begin to steer this great country back to the course this Nation should be on.

        American Exceptionalism…not normalization that the UN wishes to impose upon us. Some common sense applied would do wonders…

      • Eric Bischoff

        I just love listening to the crowd that is willing to casually impeach a president for lying about a blow job but give a free pass to a president who lied, and started wars. And now you disguise your racism to find any reason to impeach the black guy. It delineates what is wrong with us as a society and why some people in the world are unhappy with us. We are still racists in denial. We like guns and violence and wars and we casually invade and occupy other countries for their resources but we pretend to be easily offended with sex. Which makes no sense because the white male population is the one that is buying all of this viagra. And just look at our mainstream media and the films that we continue to support with our dollars and how raunchy things have gotten. We are pimping out and parading our skimpily clad daughters all over the boob tube and porn use is at all an time high.

        We are hypocrites.

        • JeffH

          Blah, blah, blah, blah blah! Speak for yourself as I’m not part of your generalization of the “WE” you speak of…you racists know who you are…you ,for one, for having the thought in the first place.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          eric,
          how did i know that you would play the race card!!! I haven’t heard ANYONE here wanting to impeach him just for his color!!! I have, however, heard one hell of a lot of them wanting to because of his ignorant way of trampling the constitution!!! So perhaps you should go back to huff po, dailykos, and of course the ever present air America!!! hear the static yet???

          • Eric Bischoff

            Yes but you are all being dishonest.

          • JeffH

            Eric Bischoff, you believe you’re the one that should make that accusation of “dishonest” to Joe or anyone else for that matter? You’re the only one that pulled the race card out so who is really dishonest. I know and Joe H knows but YOU refuse to accept YOUR responsibility for yYOUR own words. RIGHT?

          • libertytrain

            When all else fails or if one doesn’t want to bother with any worthwhile comment – play the race card – —-

        • Vigilant

          EB:

          “I just love listening to the crowd that is willing to casually impeach a president for lying about a blow job but give a free pass to a president who lied, and started wars.”

          As usual, the left is not only in a state of denial, but hopes if they perpetuate the myth about Clinton’s impeachment, somebody will believe it.

          Sonny, we don’t impeach presidents in this country for sexual peccadilloes. They are impeached for “high crimes and misdemeanors,” as stated in the Constitution. It doesn’t matter if the original offense was jaywalking or a parking ticket. I’ll repeat it for your feeble brain:

          When a president puts his hand on the Bible and takes a solemn oath to tell the truth, and commits perjury as Clinton did…he has committed a Constitutionally impeachable offense and should be convicted. What part of that don’t you understand?

  • http://www,truckerjd@clearnet.com JOHN DESKUS

    DEAR READERS JUST A NOTE FROM MY VIEW WE ALL KNOW HOW IT IS THAAY TELL US ONE THING WHEN THAY ARE TRYING TO GET IN OFFICE. AFTER THAY GET IT WHO -WHO- WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE OUT THERE TRY TO GET A CALL IN TO MOST OF THEM GOOD LUCK AFTER THAY GET YOUR MONEY AND TELL THE NEXT TIME THAY NEED YOUR VOTE AND MONEY ? IS IT ONE PERSON TO BLAME FOR ALL THAT IS WRONE NO? AND IS ONE PERSON GOING TO FIX ALL THAT IS WE NEED DONE NOL, IT TOOK A LONG TIME AND A LOT OF EVENTS TO DAMAGE THE WORLD WE LIVE IN AND IT WILL TAKE A LOT OF WORK FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE OVER A LONG TIME TO GET IT GOING THE WAY WE ALL NEED IT TO THE USA AND ALL OF US WILL NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB FROM NOW ON THANK TO ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING AND HAVE BEEN DOING WHAT THAY CAN TO REPAIR AND KEEP THE WORLD RUNING AS GOOD AS IT IS AND HOPE THAT THE NEXT PAGE IN THIS BOOK OF LIFE AND ALL THE PLAYERS BIG ONES AND THE SMALL ONE THAT IS ALL OFF US IN SOME WAY CAN KEEP US SAFE AND KEEP FOOD ON TABLES AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS WE NEED TO MOVE ON IN THIS LIFE AND FOR THE KIDS THAT WILL GROW UP AND TAKE OVER, SO PLEASE LETS DO WHAT WE CAN TO HELP[ NO AND LETS TEACH THE NEXT GROUP WHAT NOT TO DO WE CAN LEARN FROM THE BAD THINGS IN PAST AND STOP TRYING TO FIND SOME ONE TO TAKE THE FALL FOR WHAT HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST. LET THE MEN AND WOMEN THAT ARE TRYING NOW TO FIX THE COUNTRY DO WHAT THAY CAN AND BY THE TIME THE NEXT GROUP IS READY TO MOVE UP AND TAKE OVER WE CAN HOPE THAT THE PEOPLE AND GOVERMENT THAT IS MADE UP WITH US THE PEOPLE OF THE USA WILL HAVE LEARNED WHAT NOT TO DO AND WHAT TO DO MY BEST WISHES TO ALL OF US PLEASE LETS STOP BLAMING AND START THANKING FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD OVER ALL WE HAVE UPS AND DOWNS IN LIFE ,LETS TRY FOR MORE OF THE GOOD AND STOP THE BAD WHAT EVER YOUR REASON IS AND YOU FEEL LIKE IT IS WORTH IT AND IT IS HELPING OUT IN THE BIG PICTURE .I THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO MAKE IT A BETTER PLACE FOR US NOWS AND FOR THE NEXT PERSON THAT WILL TAKE OWR PLACE.

  • Joyce from Loris

    I know sometimes that the polls show numbers that we can’t hardly believe, but we all have to remember one important thing. WE THE PEOPLE have changed. So many people from different countries, different cultures have moved to America. THEY are changing the fabric, day by day. The elites of this country have always touted, “We are the nation of immigrants”. Well, welcome to America, home of the muslims, the mexicans, the asians, etc. The white America is disappearing. Blacks are multiplying at a rate of 3 to 1 white. Mexicans are multiplying at a rate of 5 to 1 white. Muslims are multiplying at a rate of 8 to 1 white. White girls are coupling with black boys, mexican boys and asian boys, making little brown children. That is their goal, to BROWN AMERICA. Us white people will be eliminated. The government has also been totally competent in trying to make us white people feel bad, feel guilty about being WHITE. It’s madness. I am proud to be white, I am proud that my children are white, and my grandchildren are white. But I fear that my grandchildren will be the slave of some other nationality by the time they reach adulthood IF WE DON’T CHANGE THINGS NOW. All people want equality, but it just never works. You can’t have total equality in this world. You will always have differences. You will always have the “Haves and the have nots”. There will always be someone somewhere that is different.

    • Karolyn

      Joyce – I never took you for a KKK member! WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS and have the right to mix and mingle. Who the F cares? God loves us all no matter what color our skin is. Do you think God cares what color anybody marries? The biggest surprise to me when I moved from NJ to SC was the amount of interracial marriage and cohabitation I saw. It is heartening to see redneck grandparents loving their mixed-race grandkids. Good for them! They have gone against the southern mindset and that of so many others.

      • libertytrain

        You apparently haven’t come to understand the true Southern mindset – they are far more advanced in acceptance of these things than any Northerner I ever knew.

      • JeffH

        Karolyn, you have no right to use your “racially motivted” term REDNECK! You’re as much a hypocrite as Joyce whom you accuse of being a KKK member. No difference at all.

        • libertytrain

          I’ll second that – I get a giggle each time someone on the left throws about those words and calls us racist.

          • Karolyn

            It’s actually a term of endearment the way I use it.

        • Karolyn

          Hey, I’m good friends with some of them rednecks; and THEY sure don’t mind me calling them that! It’s what they call themselves!

          • Joyce from Loris

            You are NO friend of rednecks. They would have NOTHING to do with the likes of you.

        • Karolyn

          Also – You can call me a Polack any time you want. I could care less (just like the rednecks could care less). I’m not as PC as you might think. I just can’t abide people bashing interracial marriage or cohabitation, thus my post.

          • Joyce from Loris

            I just can’t abide in your bashing people for their opinions, either. You have yours, I have mine. Just because you do not agree with me, does not make me wrong.

        • JeffH

          Karolyn, explain it any way you want to…you got busted plain and simple…purley a hypocrit!

      • Joyce from Loris

        Karolyn, you are such an idiot. The people in SC (yes, I am one) really wish that you would move back to NJ because of idiotic statements like you just made. No, I am not a KKK member. They do not exist, stupid. My opinions are just that… MY opinions. I do think that it is a disservice to the children of these relationships. You don’t??? That’s fine, I could care less. But I am proud to be white, and I long concluded, from your past post, that you on food stamps, and taking other hand outs from the government. I know you have a Pell Grant, another form of handouts. So, here is one to really knock your socks off. I believe that people who are incapable of taking care of themselves should not be allowed to vote!! So, welfare witch, how do you like those apples?? Get a job. Contribute SOMETHING besides your ability to take from others what they work HARD for everyday.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Joyce,
          Please do not lie and say the KKK doesn’t exhist! We had them come around my mostly white neighborhood dropping off pamphlets about three years ago and they demonstrated in the town square of Painesville Ohio about five years ago. Cost the county almost half a million in security costs. They wanted to come back again and the county told them if they wanted to come back,they would have to pay the costs that the county incurred or they would not be allowed to return. we didn’t see the cowards again! I forgot to add, the cowards came thorugh my neighborhood in the middle of the night!! Couldn’t stand up to the light of day!!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Karolyn, Tp copy your statement> “It’s heartening to see REDNECK Grandparents lovingly taking care of they’re racially mixed Grandchildren??”__I must ask you, and Just what choice did they’re children, who “produced racially mixed children”, give the Grandparents?__It’s certainly NOT the Grandchildrens fault they’re here, and would be absolutely wrong to take their parents, poorly thought out actions, out on the innocent Grandkids. People only think about themselves today, they act first to quench a desire and never thinking about the children who come later, THEY are the ones who are really left to deal with this stuff, not the parents!!

        • Angel Wannabe

          K, BTW, I am an old redneck!–And what IN the HELL DOES THAT FACT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH CARING ABOUT PEOPLE IN GENERAL?

  • Elissa

    One of the few things I remember from my “Probabilities and Statistics” class is my instructor’s voice intoning “Always look to see who financed the study”. The point was that if you were conducting a study it would be better for you financially to show results which were favorable to whomever paid for the study. As examples, he trotted out some of the tobacco studies which said tobacco was harmless and even beneficial in some cases. Of course, they were commissioned by the tobacco industry!

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Follow the Money….

      • TIME

        Follow the ones who lust POWER, The money is no big deal, they own it all.

  • Vigilant

    Not all pollsters are dishonest. Scott Rasmussen and Gallup, for example, have very respectable reputations for integrity. And their accuracy of prediction is very high.

  • BigBadJohn

    The results of polls are always determined by who participates in the poll.

    Every time you search the WEB, buy a magazine, use your member card at any store, sign up for email list, or join a blog such as this one, your name goes on a list.

    By selecting which list to use, pollsters can influence the outcome of the poll.

    Time, place and who actually takes the time to take a poll, instead of hanging up, also affects the outcome.

    So yes the result of any poll is determined by who does the poll.
    Take the results of ALL polls with a grain of salt.

  • Soldier

    wishing it were so did nothing. Only action matters.

  • DaWitchesBroom

    Nov 2 is not going to be a cake walk. Will be interesting to see. Until more people start working harder in the US, the US is in trouble no matter who is in charge.

    The overall population determines the vitality of the nation unless the financial sector collaspes which has not happened. There is just not enough work being done.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      The Financial Sector could literally vanish and it matters not. Return the US to our Constitutional Money system and we’d be just fine.

    • DaveH

      That is always true, Broom. But the question is “what motivates people to work harder?”. It certainly isn’t thieving Democrats who want to take their money as fast as they earn it. If Big Government motivated people to work harder the countries on the bottom of this list would be very prosperous:
      http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking.aspx

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    Only 58% believe government is too intrusive and powerful?? Of course, that’s better than another Gallup poll I just read on CNSnews (Wednesday, 10/13/2010), in which only 46% say the government threatens our rights and freedoms. I sometimes wonder if Gallup is oversampling Democraps?? In that poll 2 days ago, several issues were raised. It sounded rather biased to me. I.e., only 15% worry about the threat to our 1st Amendment?? Only 6% worry about our freedom of religion?? WAKE UP!! Are they oblivious to the leftwing democraps’ attempts to shut down talk radio, or the ‘hate crime laws’ which turn the government into the thought police and could prosecute clergyman from preaching the Bible?? Only 11% worry about the health/hell care law?? Most polls show an overwhelming majority of Americans oppose it!! And only 2% are worried about too much government spending??!! GOOD GRIEF!! My only guess is that maybe that poll was taken among drones, leeches and losers. They obviously don’t care about spending, as long as the spending is a handout to them from the government. Nor do they care about all the other issues, in which we see this current democrap regime destroying America!!

    • Joyce from Loris

      Unbelievable, isn’t it? 58 million people are on SS or SSDI, 60 million are on welfare. Well, there is only 320 million in America! Almost half are on some form of government assistance, at the tax payers expense. Problem is, there are not enough tax payers anymore to support all the deadbeat welfare people, and the SSDI people getting checks because they have ADHD, or are on crack or alcoholics or obese. It is madness! That is why we have such a huge deficient in this country. They are taxing the working class people to death, to pay those who do not or will not work. Every day, the welfare numbers grow because of people losing jobs, yet in WASHINGTON DC alone, the employment rate for hispanics has INCREASED 8.5%. Imagine that.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        I could try to focus on a Solution, but the reality is that we are facing the problem you mention above in the very, very near future.
        The effects of this unemployment and parasitic govt leeches is going to overwhelm us before any decent political solution presents itself!

        So I asked yesterday…
        How are you going to feed them?
        Where are they all going to live?
        Who is going to pay the bill?
        Higher taxes?
        Print more Money?
        High inflation?
        Food Riots?
        Civil unrest?
        Revolt?
        Martial law?

        Its not pretty but its reality…thats ALLOT of people to feed & support…either that or WWIII!

      • BigBadJohn

        Links for your numbers please. Doing some research the numbers I saw for welfare ranged from 2 million to 4 million – way less than the 60 million you claim.

        As for SS how many of those people paid in to it all of their working lives? If you paid into it do you think you deserve to draw out of it?

    • Karolyn

      Who on earth is trying to shut down talk radio? That’s ridiculous. As long as a preacher preaches what the Bible says, there is no reason for him to be arrested. It is when a preacher uses his own interpretation of the Bible to incite violence that he should be prosecuted. Just because a lot of people who don’t think like you do are not as vociferous as you doesn’t mean they don’t exist. You exist in your own culture. When you venture outside your culture, you can see that there are a lot more people than you think out there that don’t have the same feelings you do.

      • JeffH

        FCC Regulation
        The standard playbook for revolutionaries is to seize all the television and radio stations first, and announce the rebels are the new government. The Left has already done this in America. Except for a couple of holdouts — conservative talk radio and Christian broadcasts.

        Conservative talk radio generates strong ratings and is thus a lucrative venue for certain stations to carry. The problem is, the Democrats don’t like conservative talk radio. So, they seek to use their power to silence this venue.

        How do they do that?

        The Senate immediately followed its approval of Sen. Jim DeMint’s amendment prohibiting the Fairness Doctrine by approving an amendment from Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) which provided for the FCC to “encourage and promote diversity in communications media ownership and to ensure that broadcast station licenses are used in the public interest.”

        With legislation like the “Fairness Doctrine” and/or “localization”. With “localization” a handful of appointed government beaurocrats decide what’s in the best interest of the people in terms of their radio programming. Got that? A couple of FCC lackeys get to decide what radio stations are allowed to play on the air. Non-compliance will be met with fines, forced programming and a revoke of broadcasting liscenses – Obama wants to have the liscences be good for only 2 years, as opposed to the 8 years that they are currently good for.

        The main frontal attack is not going to come through Congress, where talk radio audiences and Christian grassroots can be mobilized to stop it. It is going to come through regulations issued by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), which already has all the legal authority it needs.
        http://spectator.org/archives/2009/04/22/will-obama-seize-the-radio-sta

        It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what Obama really is — a cigar store Indian for the ruling elite and the bankers. Obama is a front man who does the bidding for our globalist rulers. He is the public relations spokesman for international banks and transnational corporations. Obama’s job is to shoot hoops and look confident and come off as if he is in control while the real controllers pull the strings from behind the curtain.

        • Vigilant

          JeffH:

          It’s amazing that there are people out there who are still unaware of the “Fairness Doctrine.” This idea is not new, has been the pet project of Dems. for years, but now they’re feeling their muscle with Obama in office.

          A favorite approach of this president is to utilize the regulatory power of agencies such as FCC and EPA to circumvent the legislative process (and therefore the Constitution itself) to get things done by fiat. Executive orders and making appointments during Congressional recesses to bypass “advice and consent” have been used by other presidents, but never to the extent done by this would-be dictator as a routine method of getting things done.

          To say that leftists cannot see their hypocrisy in always championing free speech and then doing their best to stifle it when it doesn’t suit their nefarious purposes, is incorrect. I believe they know full well what they are doing in their “end justifies the means” mentality, and in their heart of hearts, don’t give a damn about free speech except when it serves their purpose.

          • JeffH

            Vigilant, any way they can they will usurp the Constitution.

        • Eric Bischoff

          What’s amazing to me JeffH is how close minded you are but then again maybe that explains why you continue to have everything backwards or should I say ass backwards.

          • JeffH

            Eric, I’m not closed minded at all unless you think wanting the government to control your every move in life is a good thing, then yes, I’ll take my closed mindedness over being a Marxist, socialist or communist loving liberal any day of the week. As for being “bass ackwards”, perhaps you should lift your head above your knees after you’ve taken a close look in the mirror.

      • Angel Wannabe

        kAROLYN, instead of asking who this? and what that?___Why don’t you try and google some of this stuff, you wish to learn and read it, on your own, instead of blindly grappling at the air looking for answers? It’s what the rest of us do!!!

  • THINK ABOUT

    Why should we be concerned with polls, we should be more concerned with possible solutions which are never offered. Money is spent on frivolous bashing the other canidates just so they can cover for lack of any planning. It is always easy to say no and takes thought and effort to come up with any plan to cut spending. It is always cut somewhere else but not in my back yard. We should have learned something from the rescue of the miners in Chile, they worked together and got the job done. You can’t change what you do not accept. Calling names sure does not fix any problems. Some things in life as the USA knows it has to have regulations, if you want to live where no modern conviences are available then accept the road of no and nothing.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    The Single Most Bipartisian issue that every political party, or group could rally on (except the commies) is to Dissolve the Fed and restore Constitutional Money system. Shame everyones emotional issues get in the way.

    • BigBadJohn

      So do you blame Nixon for taking us off of the gold standard? It was his idea to print our way out of debt.

      • JeffH

        Who cares about Nixon…we’re here in the 21st century now, Nixon is old news. Dis the Fed and get on with it.

  • Palin12

    I enjoyed the debate last night between Angle and Reid. She was the aggressor from the very beginning. At one point she told Harry to “man up and realize Social Security is in deep trouble and needs to be fixed.” She also pointed out that while she lives in a middle-class neighborhood in Reno, Harry lives at the Ritz-Carlton in Washington. Another time she recalled Ronald Reagan by starting off a rebuttal with “there you go again”…Early voting starts tomorrow in Nevada. You can count on my vote Sharron.

    • Eric Bischoff

      That’s it, that’s the best you can choose! Now that’s sad.

      • JeffH

        Eric Bischoff, is that the best YOU can do? Dirty Harry looked more like a senile old man with alzheimers than a lifelong politician…then agan maybe they’re one in the same. If he couldn’t stumble and studder he might have been abel to say something other than “extremist” every other sentance.

        • Palin12

          JeffH
          Did you see when the moderator asked Dirty Harry to give his closing remarks Harry fumbled with his papers for about 30 seconds and then said “let me find my papers”?? Not very well prepared! Did they show this debate in California?

          • JeffH

            I heard quite a bit of it today on the local 580 KMJ…Angle was very well prepared and Dingy Harry, just like Barbara Boxer did, was totally unprepared and winged it on their liberal talking points, totally avoiding the major issues and trying to ride the fact that they’ve been voted in for so long “so they must be doing something right”. A total joke.

          • Palin12

            JeffH
            You can watch Harry fumbling for his papers here. Cut to the chase at 9:00 minute mark:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_505404&v=40uHZgPS_bA

        • http://?? Joe H.

          JeffH,
          You mean he’s NOT a senile old man with alzheimers???? Could have fooled me!!! Of course you left out one part. He’s a GREEDY old man with alzheimers!!!

          • JeffH

            I love it! LOL!

        • Eric Bischoff

          I don’t like Harry Reid, never have but replacing him with Sharon Angle now there’s a brilliant move!

          • http://naver sook young

            Do you have something against a woman taking his job from him? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai
            Vote November 2!

      • Craig

        Anything is better than a scumbag dumbocrat.

      • Palin12

        Eric Bischoff
        yes that is the best I can do, since Sarah Palin is not running for Nevada Senator :-)

    • Mick

      Palin12 says:
      October 15, 2010 at 3:13 pm
      I enjoyed the debate last night between Angle and Reid. She was the aggressor from the very beginning. At one point she told Harry to “man up and realize Social Security is in deep trouble and needs to be fixed.” She also pointed out that while she lives in a middle-class neighborhood in Reno, Harry lives at the Ritz-Carlton in Washington. Another time she recalled Ronald Reagan by starting off a rebuttal with “there you go again”…Early voting starts tomorrow in Nevada. You can count on my vote Sharron.

      &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
      Palin12…She can count on my vote as well.
      Being from NV I definitely want to see REID gone…….

      • JeffH

        Good for you Mick…I can’t vote for Angle but I sure can offer my support…not only for Angle but O’Donnel and several others. I hope you guys can do the same for…Whitman vs Jerry Brown, Carly Fiorina vs Boxer and John Dennis who is running for Pelosi’s seat in SF.

        • Palin12

          Jerry Brown, what a joke. I remember when he came on TV and pleaded to spare the life of serial killer William Bonin, who was convicted of a minimum of 15 murders and was duly executed.

          • Palin12

            …and with the recent celebration of John Lennon’s 70th birthday, I can’t help but wish that his killer, Mark David Chapman, would also receive the ultimate punishment.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          JeffH,
          I can’t vote for her but My wife and I sent her some money for her campaign as we would have supported anyone or anyTHING against dingy Harry!!

      • Christin

        Mick,
        I would have loved to see that debate… sorry I missed it.

        I do not reside in NV so I can’t vote progressive REID OUT, but we sent in money to support Sharron Angle. Hope and Pray she wins Nov. 2nd.

        Thanks for the up-date. All the best to you Nevadians.

  • Anthony

    @ Palin12 -

    NPR had a great critique, this morning, about the Nevada race…

    REID will lose unless the Bankers get in there and implement Voting Booth rigging for the desired results. Count on it.

  • Anthony

    HERE’S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THE MIS-INFORMED …. cuz they wanna be.

    ======================

    CLARENCE SWINNEY says:
    October 15, 2010 at 11:15 am

    Sorry Bob (Livingston?) Your ceation ?”Big Government” by Reagan + Bush is not our imminent threat to Democracy.

    THIS, if read properly, states that Reagan and/or Bush… is not the culprit in our current financial excrement situation. SC? You got another take?

    It Is Your creation of WSA–Wall Street Of America

    Your pals created the Great Redistribution of Income and Wealth to 1% or 1.2 millionultra rich. Yes Bob! You. You. You.

    Let 1% go from 20% Total Fianancial Wealth in 1980 to 43% in 2009.
    From Ten percent of Total Income to 24% in 2009

    HOW, it is, that Bob Livingston… might be the real criminal here for what WALL STREET decides to implement… is beyond me. Mr. Livingston has (I am sure) practically NO leverage with the Wall Street types – he only advises where you can sneak in and enhance YOUR own wealth satndard – and he aligns himself with StansberryReserach.com in the process … therefore, it’s all good in my book.

    Yes Bob, You created a Third World called Wall Street Of America formerly United States Of America.

    You, Bob, increased spending by 80% and Debt by 170% from 1980 to 1989. Yes! You Bob increased spending and debt each by 100% from 2000-2009

    Yes! You, created 99,000 net new jobs in 20 years just enough to cover new entries into the work force.

    I still don’t see where he’s defining which BOB he might be speaking to… Bob Livingston doesn’t work in Government, nor on Wall Street, and I would offer he might be highly escorted if her were to knock on the door of the Federal Reserve even if only for a small tour.

    Yes! It was not Clinton or Carter who in 12 years created 222,000 per month.

    Yes! It was you who freed banks where large investment Gamblers could own all our bank assets for their Gambling Empire.

    Yes! It was you who modernized financial empire to allow unrestricted Gambling in your new CASINO DERIVATIVE OF AMERICA.

    AGAIN – no one aligned/working for Personal-Liberty.com or the empire(?) of Bob Livingston.. would/could ever have the clouot it might take to alter what teh Bilderbergers (can you say George Soros?) have been up to since the late 1970′s under Jimmy Carter.

    [Hey, ever notice they never call President Carter by his Christian name of JAMES.....LOL]

    You should constantly go back and review documentaries online or buy those DVDs which discuss THE MONEY MASTERS and THE FEDERAL RESERVE …. aka: The Creature from Jekyll Island.

    If it’s beneath you… then, most certainly, ..live life on your knees!

    • JC

      Good stuff Anthony.
      Idiotic isn’t it? :)

  • Eric Bischoff

    There’s an old saying. You better be careful what you wish for, you just may get it.

    What do you expect? The country fed up with years of pandering to the rich, waging wars and running the economy into the ground voted for change and elected a Democrat president, House and Senate . Why do think that happened? Have you all developed amnesia?

    This fiasco was a long time in the making. I am sorry if some of you just woke up but this was a long time in the making. It just so happens that we’ve reached the perfect storm. Credit cards maxed, no equity in our homes, no savings and then the banks screw up by gambling on steroids with money they never had. Why? Because deregulation let them do it and they are greedy bastards. Money is the real god in america.

    But unfortunately instead of being good sports and saying alright you won! we’ll try your way for a while, the very crowd that brought us to the brink of disaster does everything in it’s power to insure that things get even worse so that the new guys look bad and then they can get back in. Thanks guys!

    So we end up with toothless convoluted bills that just maintain the status quo. And this crowd which never takes responsibility for any wrong doing continues to blame everything on the current administration. Granted dems could have fought harder that is if they had any courage. We should have tried a public option, but they have no guts and they know full well that it’s not up to the public if they keep their job it’s directly related to how much money corporation will throw into advertising or should we call it lies and propaganda. The supreme court has now made sure of that.

    Come to think of it maybe the supreme court is what needs fixing. They help steal elections and now they have made corporations into super humans that can spend as much as they want on elections. And you can’t even control where the money comes from.

    We did not get any meaningful change yet and we probably won’t. The pendulum will swing back towards the other side and the rich will get richer, the poor will definitely get poorer and the middle class will suffer even more. We may even get deeper into wars.

    I am not a fan of the Democrats but I can’t stand most Republicans and I am sorry but the Tea Party brings new meaning to mean and stupid politicians with big money behind them.

    Oh well. I guess you haven’t suffered enough yet.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Eric, your right! The zombies and parasites havent had it tough enough yet.

    • DaveH

      Eric,
      You really need to do some reading. Start with Thomas Sowell’s book “The Housing Boom and Bust”. The Government led by your Democrats coerced the banks to lend to unqualified lenders. Another problem was the accomodative stance of the Federal Reserve. When Ron Paul tryed to get a bill passed to audit the Fed, North Carolina Democrat Mel Watt trashed it:
      http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/congress/2216-subcommittee-guts-ron-pauls-bill-to-audit-the-fed

      • DaveH

        The problem was certainly not the so-called deregulation. As long as Big Government exists, there will be regulations:
        http://reason.org/news/printer/the-myth-of-financial-deregula

      • Bitter Libertarian

        ANY Politician who isnt OPPOSED to the existance of the FED reserve is a worthless POS Traitor GUILTY of TREASON. Its THAT simple.

      • Eric Bischoff

        DaveH
        They are not my Democrats. I think I’ve outlined my belief through this site many times. I call them RepubliCrats because they are 2 sides of the same coin.

        You know squat about my need to do some reading. According to my wife the house is about to collapse under the weight of books and periodicals.

        And if you still believe that deregulation had nothing to do with this financial debacle then you are reading the wrong books or maybe you are not comprehending what you are reading. I recommend Nomi Prins, David C. Korten, Naomi Klein, Thom Hartmann, Martin Weiss, Richard Mayberry.

        And for a real eye opener, read Catherine Austin Fitts’ blog post Financial Coup D’Etat.

        • DaveH

          Did you even read the link I provided, Eric? With an unbiased brain? I’ve been reading economic publications my entire 40 years of adulthood. And with an open mind. I’ve never been afraid to think outside the box, hence my Libertarianism. Don’t confuse hopes and dreams with reality, Eric. Have you perused the link I provided to the ranking of the countries by their economice freedom (less regulation)? Maybe you are reading the wrong publications, Eric. After all, the economic policies you apparently advocate have failed throughout the world. Can you not learn from the experience of others?
          All the reading in the world will do no good if you can’t learn from your own and others’ experience.
          This is where well-meaning but misguided people like yourself are leading this country:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i8zuffs&feature=PlayList&p=FBD7EFAE8BE4F748&index=0&playnext=1

          • DaveH

            And as far as your statement “reading the wrong books or maybe you are not comprehending what you are reading”. I have 7 years of college under my belt and graduated with honors in two different degrees. I think I can comprehend what I read, you undeservedly arrogant jerk.
            Perhaps you could explain to me how bureaucratic tampering with business practices (regulations), which costs our economy not only the salaries of the meddlers, but also the salaries of the people the businesses must hire to comply, save our economy money? I’m not talking about enforcing fraud, which has always been against the law and adjucated in courts of law. I’m talking about Government intrusion into honest business practices.
            If you can’t think for yourself, and seek banks or other firms that operate to your liking, don’t saddle my choices with your Big Government meddling.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Go get em’ DaveH!!!!! I love it!!!

      • Eric Bischoff

        DaveH I’ll agree with you on the Fed, they have to go.

  • Anthony

    For some comments above – the premise is correct, that a small group of Pollsters could be considered legitimate. A very small group.

    In the end, POLLS can and are manipulated thru what sector of America they are taken in. If you go to the area of Chicago where even the Cops won’t go…. what do you expect the results to be?

    If you go to Manhattan Island only – like the Neilson Group does for what TV Shows should be considerd HITS…. then what does that say?

    it may well be, that Rasmussen and GALLUP are to be commended for how they handle POLLS – but I’m betting that every POLL has some manipulation to it … and it should always be discussed with those you live life around. No matter what. See what your friends, co-workers, relatives, etc., … all what they think. Then, take a stance from that.

    POLLS can be ruined by the lack of intelligence from those who actually answer the phone, as well.

  • http://stickmewithafork.blogspot.com TIMedWork

    If so many people think the the toilet in Washington needs a good flush, then the addage from another blogger’s site is appropos to correcting the problem:

    “Bad politicians are elected by good peole that don’t vote”

    If everyone who disagrees with the missteps of the Capitol Crowd gets out and votes, the problem will be greatly diminished. And that nasty smell might go away, too!

  • ChuckL

    I shall not claim to know how much government regulation exists. The congress has does an excellent job of hiding their regulations until they decide to use one against someone or some business. What is obvious however is that much if not most regulations are very poorly designed and implemented. They have been given great sounding titles that serve only to hide the actual regulation. If these phony titles were not so prevalent, we could blame it on a misunderstanding, but with the preponderance of titles being misleading, we must believe that the misleading titles are intentional.

    Perhaps the volume of wording is used solely to hide the deceitful actuality of the regulations. In most cases the title could be met with only one or two paragraphs.

  • Eric Bischoff

    The number one issue today is/must be CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM. Without it nothing will get better. Even the Tea Party has Billions of oil money and Fox behind it. I am sorry but that is not change either. That’s just taking it back from the last winners. I am not impressed.

    • JeffH

      Eric Bischoff, “Even the Tea Party has Billions of oil money and Fox behind it.”

      Now I’m quite sure you can produce more evidence than just your word on that? Which Tea Party are you talking of? There are plenty, but only one grassroots Tea Party. Spit it out.

      • JeffH

        I’ll concede the FOX, but just show me the “billions”.

        • Vigilant

          JeffH,

          He can’t show it because it doesn’t exist. Truth is whatever a proagandist wants it to be.

    • DaveH

      Campaign Finance Reform is better titled “Incumbent Protection Policy”. It takes lots of information (thus money) to sway the voters who tend to vote for the most familiar faces, who happen to be the Incumbents. Also, Campaign Finance Reform would heap more power to steer elections into the hands of the major media. That is, unless you also advocate taking away Freedom of Speech (which wouldn’t surprise me).
      You would know these things, Eric, if you did the kind of reading you say you do.

  • ChuckL

    Eric Bischoff, The problem is not lack of regulation, but the absence of any properly worded and written regulation.

    As I am certain that you are aware, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were subjected to much regulation by Chris Dodd and Charley Rangel. Many times members of the congress and senate tried to correct the errors in these ?regulations?, but they were Republicans fighting a Democrat, or perhaps we should say Progressive Socialist congress. The corrections were never made. Both of them continued to tell us that both agencies were sound and in no danger of collapse until they had collapsed.

    The problem was that nowhere in the regulations was a requirement that these “inner city” mortgages had to be written to persons likely to repay the mortgage. The regulations required that bad mortgages had to be made. It was not lack of regulation, but bad regulation by nominal Democrats.

    It is not the number of regulations that counts, but the QUALITY.

    • Vicki

      Eric Bischoff here is the evidence that lack of regulation indeed caused some of the housing problem. That lack of regulation was Democrat caused and inspired.
      youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM (add the www.)

      Then of course it is the wording of the regulation that matters as well.

      “Third, the Department of Housing and Urban Development pressured lenders for “affordable housing” loans. Beginning in 1993, HUD officials began bringing legal actions against mortgage bankers that declined a higher percentage of minority applicants than white ones. To avoid legal trouble, lenders began relaxing their down-payment and income qualifications.[9]”
      http://www.cato-unbound.org/2008/12/02/lawrence-h-white/what-really-happened/

      Hardly “de-regulated”, banks were forced to change their sensible policies based on real economics just to suit the government regulators. The above link goes into lots more detail of how the (not)de-regulated finance industry reacted to government regulation.

      So far from being deregulated the entire financial industry was badly regulated at every turn. By Democrats.

      • Vigilant

        Vicki,

        Thanks for trying to bring that to the attention of the leftists on this site.

        As many times as I’ve brought up this same subject, I’ve never received an answer from them. They just clam up because this is one area where they have no come back.

        You probably won’t get a response from them either.

        • JeffH

          Vigilant, it’s the same thing when they get called on the Clinton budget “surplus”. that Bush blew. Never was one.

        • Vicki

          Vigilant, As you say I am not expecting a response from the leftists. They can’t. But it is good for us to constantly bring it up to let others who have not seen that information become aware of it.

          Kind of like the birther issue. I heard about and investigated it before the election. I brought it up to some of my liberal friends. You can imagine their reaction. :) None the less I warned them that it was a serious issue and would come back to haunt them.

          My investigation resulted in my being concerned about what Obama is hiding. It didn’t actually change my vote cause I had already studied the candidates and decided. (I did not vote fore obama :) )

  • http://com i41

    Campaign finance reform is going to do what? Your crap brain leech lawyer in Congress write convoluted rules for loop holes all the time. Why does it take 2300 pages for a simple b–l s–t bill, because lawyers are crooks and want a way to will out in an pinch. Chech any damn contract written by any lawyer, which everide is paying the lawyer will get the better deal. The dems and their pratron G Sorus has several phantom anti USA groups to flush money to the USA Hating jackasses. Any pus minded idoit groups with Union in their name, is a democrat supported thug bunch, Farmer Union, SEIU ,Teamsters, just to mention a couple of brain dead smuck groups. The members cann’t think or do anything unless a group hug and agree is a approved.Democrats always gravate to anyorganization that has Union some where in its name. If you watch how they operate their lives and homes or “business” government hands are in ever facet every time. Hand outs are the hook to make them “protected” in life. Eric I don’t know where you got you facts on oil money since Onumnutts stopp exploration and will not drilling and pipeline construction proceed, so you are as full of s–t as a christmas duck. Your statements prove that your ilk like, your simple minded demcrat sister Karolyn, who doesn’t know who has and is trying to shut down talk radio, The National Marxist Democrat Communist Union Party, you ignorant F-g dorks. It is the same democrat envior nuts who beleive we need green power and it will happen in a few months, typical book trained overeducated a$$es who have never done a damn thing in life but shuffle papers, and make regulations for work creators in 2500 pages of impediments. If any of you demorats can name one damn useful thing these appointed dink agency wonks have done positive. Public policy that is supposed save and protect the (earth) and if not stopped and reversed, will cause food loss and possibler starvation
    of humans. California stopping water use food irragation for a peice of s–t fish.shows what a bunch of retarded bastards are in office. Salazzar is a poor excuse of a intelligent Colorado rube, a pus gutted lawyer being used as a hat rack.

    • Karolyn

      Gee i41, you get more eloquent evey day. I’m really serious in asking “Are you for real?, or are you just putting us on?” If you are for real, I’m so glad I don’t have to associate with you. As far as what I’ve done all my life, I have worked, and I have helped many people and have had many people in my life who have loved me and do love me. Can you say the same? Of course, I know you’ve worked. You have that die-hard American work ethic standard that means if somebody does anything other than physical work, they’re not worth a damn. Oh, yes, and education. Somehow that’s a dirty word to you. What could possibly be wrong with the search for knowledge? I’m keeping my brain young with new knowledge every day. You spout the same thing every day. Have you learned anything new lately other than more disgusting language?

      • JeffH

        …one man’s i41 is another man’s fast eddie, minus most of the foul language. One makes about as much sense as the other.

      • JeffH

        Karolyn, just an FYI for you…you wanna play you have to be prepared to pay…LOL!…good luck…

        • Karolyn

          Hey, Jeff, I could care less. I just like to respond to his posts. Actually, it bugs me that there are actually people like him.

  • Claire

    Seems like “Chicago” is up to their old tricks as usual. The name of the Green Party candidate that is running for Governor of Illinois was misspelled in the voting machines. The guy’s name is Rich Whitney–and they spelled it “Rich Whitey.” Early voting began this past Monday. Why am I not surprised. This would never happen to Quinn or Brady. Such smart people that run the elections–they can’t even spell, let alone conduct an honest election.

    • chuck b

      claire

      you may have missed this comment, it’s quite interesting and i have not checked it out, but, it sure sounds right:

      Wayne says:
      October 15, 2010 at 4:51 pm

      This is an interesting piece of information:
      When you are a phoney it’s hard to keep facts straight.

      Big surprise!!!

      Former Constitutional Law Lecturer and US President Makes Up

      Constitutional Quotes During “State Of The Union ” (SOTU) Address.

      Consider this:

      1. President Barack Obama, former editor of the Harvard Law Review,

      is no longer a “lawyer”. He surrendered his license back in 2008 in order

      to escape charges he lied on his bar application.

      https://www.iardc.org

      Stands for Illinois Attorney Registration And Disciplinary Committee. It’s

      the official arm of lawyer discipline in Illinois .

      A “Voluntary Surrender” is not something where you decide “Gee, a license

      is not really something I need anymore, is it?” and forget to renew your

      license. No, a “Voluntary Surrender” is something you do when you’ve

      been accused of something, and you ‘voluntarily surrender” your license

      five seconds before the state suspends you.

      2. Michelle Obama “voluntarily surrendered” her law license in 1993.

      3. So, we have the first black President and First Lady — who don’t

      actually have licenses to practice law. Facts.

      Source: jdlong.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/pres-barack-obama-editor-of-the-Harvard-law-review-has-no-law-license/

      4 A senior lecturer is one thing… A fully ranked law professor is another.

      Barack Obama was NOT a Constitutional Law professor at the University

      of Chicago .

      5. The University of Chicago released a statement in March, 2008 saying

      Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill) “served as a professor” in the law

      school—but

      that is a title Obama, who taught courses there part-time, never held, a

      spokesman for the school confirmed in 2008.

      6. “He did not hold the title of professor of law,” said Marsha Ferziger

      Nagorsky, an Assistant Dean for Communications and Lecturer in Law at

      the University of Chicago School of Law .

      Source:blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/03/sweet_obama_did_hold_the_title.html%A0%A0

      9. Free Republic: In the State of the Union Address, President Obama

      said: “We find unity in our incredible diversity, drawing on the promise

      enshrined in our Constitution: the notion that we are all created equal….

      10. Um, wrong citing,

      wrong founding document there Champ, I mean

      Mr. President. By the way, the promises are not a notion, our founders

      named them unalienable rights. The document is our Declaration of

      Independence and it reads:

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,

      that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

      that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

      11. And this is the same guy who lectured the Supreme Court moments

      later in the same speech?

      When you are a phoney it’s hard to keep facts straight.
      Reply

      • Claire

        chuck b —”When you are a phoney it’s hard to keep facts straight.” Truer words were never spoken. Good old Illinois politics. None of them can keep their facts straight. All of the candidates that are running for office-Democrat or Republican–they have all been “caught.” They have all lied, every one of them, including Obama. I truly don’t think any of them know the truth from a hole in the ground. None of them even know the meaning of the word “truth.” I have become weary of the entire fiasco. “Farce” is a good word to use when describing Illinois politics. And the ads–most of them are disgusting and a waste of money. The ads have become a huge turn-off to me. Everyone I know is sick and tired of the games these politicians play. And the horror of it all, a lot of people I know say they aren’t even going to vote. Heck, I don’t even want to vote. It is truly pathetic when an American feels like he/she will be voting for the lesser of two evils. This is the predicament I find myself in, over and over again, be it on the state or federal level. I repeat myself when I say “what on earth has happened to common sense, justice and honesty?” This is a different world we live in now, it cannot be compared to yesteryear when the forefathers founded The Constitution of the United States of America. The problems America faces at this time are different, more complex, more corruption on all kinds of levels, plus the politicians all say what we want to hear, and how many of them will really abide by what they say? How many of them will truly honor the Constitution? How many of them will really stand up and be an honest person and fight for what is “right.” How many of them will truly “fight” for what is good for America and all Americans and NOT their own pocketbooks and their own goals?

        • libertytrain

          Missed you and your words Claire – nice to “read” you again.

          • Claire

            libertytrain–It was good for me to drop out for a week or more–I was getting crabby as heck! But I kept busy training my dog. I did have a wild urge every evening to get on this site and rant away!! LOL

          • JeffH

            Claire, always good to hear from you. The dogs can be so therapeutic can’t they?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Claire,
            Welcome back friend!!! Good to see you back and glad to hear you are rested up as as usual you’re gonna need it!!

          • Claire

            JeffH–Yes, my dogs are my therapy and Bob adores them too. They keep him moving and this is what he needs. He has to keep walking. The dogs do make us smile.

          • Claire

            JoeH– LOL Yes, I have to get ready for the next go-around!!

  • http://com i41

    Karolyn, yes after helping people with out the means to get their vehicles repaired I have help provide transportation for people to get to work. For 20= years I worked as a counsler for troubled young boys in their late teens. Several have become business men and productive adults with families. The reason I consider most college degreed people educated morons, is that they only spout their professors crap. They have no real work experience, and will not listen to someone with practical experience or job experience. Theories don’t usually work and they waste a lot of time sitting doing nothing. Obama is a prime example of educated stupidity, book training doesn’t always have answers to a convoluted sistuations. I have worked in enough business, wheather retail sales, mechanical manufacturing, road engineering projects, and several overeducated degreed smart a$$ed dinks couldn’t solve some problems, after showing them a different way to solve the situations, who got the big pay and took the credit, the degreed smucks. Listening to Onumnutts talk about everyone going to college, what a waste, the professors use 2-54 year student to teach for them. What do colleges actually produce, government workers, state employees, and wonk agency pukes who administer regulations. Another worthless leeches that produce nothing usful is the lawyers, Onumnutts bevy of radical socialist bastards are doing Barry’s bidding to take over all of the private land, to do away with private land ownership. As for people who respect me my friends I worked with over the several decades still call me from all over to ask about problems to they need help solving. So if you socialist marxist democrats don’t like my attitude, well BFD, I hate pusified wimps, girly boys and flaky phony witchy gold digging sows. I rerad books all the time and spend at least 10 hours a week at the library. So yes I would consider me real.

  • Mick

    Mick says:
    October 16, 2010 at 10:05 am
    eddie47d says:
    October 15, 2010 at 8:20 pm
    What goes around comes around! You’ve been barking at Obama since day one and I guess the DNC has finally got tired of it. The Republicans got their feelings hurt two years ago and are licking their wounds through revenge. Now the Democrats are biting back.The Chamber of Commerce is sometimes up to no good so the Democrats found an opening. The Republicans do it all the time too and seem to relish it when they are on the attacking side. Like all campaign finance reform issues the right will also shove this issue under the rug.It will come to nothing and disappear faster than the 8 minutes on the Watergate tapes.
    ****************************************************
    eddie47d……….THE DEMOCRATS DON’T HAVE ANY ROOM TO TALK, THEY THE MASTERS OF DECEPTION AND UNDERHANDED TACTICS.
    THEY WILL MANAGE AGAIN TO OMIT OUR MILITARY VOTES AND AGAIN GET AWAY WITH IT,
    IT’S AN ABSOLUTE INSULT TO THE PEOPLE DEFENDING AND SERVING ALL OF US.
    WHERE IN THE HELL IS THE A.C.L.U WHEN IT COMES TO DEFEND THE RIGHTS OF OUR TROOPS ? THEY ALWAYS ADVOCATE THAT THEY’RE DEFENDING THE CITIZENS RIGHTS BUT THEY’RE CERTAINLY VERY PICKY ABOUT WHO’S CITIZENS RIGHTS THEY WILL DEFEND..IF YOU DEMOCRATS CAN’T SEE THE BIAS AMONG THE ORGANIZATIONS BACKING THE DEMOCRATS YOU’RE HOPELESS AND DANGEROUS TO OUR COUNTRY.

  • http://www.arizona-business-solution.com Rick

    No form of government can be expected to provide perfectly for the needs of every one of it’s citizens however, capitalism is currently the only form of government that does not directly conflict with the basic human desire for freedom. If capitalism has had failures, it is only due to the excesses of those who use money as a tool to gain political power. We can begin to solve this problem by replacing our materialist values with greater emphasis on evolving into the spiritual beings we are designed to be.
    Let’s stop the politics and start solving the real problems.

    • Vicki

      Nor is it the job of government to provide for the needs of every one of it’s citizens. To quote the Declaration of Independence

      “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. ”

      The job is to secure our rights from those who would try to rule us not to provide for our every need.

      Capitalism is an economic philosophy not a government. Our government is however, as you said, the most compatible with the basic human desire for freedom.

      Here is a cute set of descriptions of the general forms of government known to man including ours (Republic). Ours is special in that it is a Constitutionally LIMITED Republic.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY&p

      It clearly shows WHY our form of government is the most compatible.

      Now about needs. If (and I say IF) it were the job of government to provide for our needs it would be easy. Humans have a very overblown sense of need.

      Humans need
      1. Air
      2. Water
      3. Food
      4. Shelter.

      That’s it. The creator of this world conveniently provided the first 3 in abundance so no government needed. Shelter is really protection from the elements so is only needed in some places or only for short times and though government could provide shelter humans do not actually need government.

      So as you see any government can provide perfectly all those things. Until there are so many slaves that they consume all the shelter space and or food supply. Then government must ration.

  • Kate8

    An interview with a spokesman for the American Communist Party. He is calling for revolution in America, against capitalism.

    It’s easy to see why our youth are attracted to this idea. Much of what is says is true, but his premise (and his conclusions) are faulty.

    Yikes. This is scary. We MUST know our enemy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8F8Bvut_4w&NR=1

    • Vicki

      Just use the communist soundbyte “From each according to his abilities. To each according to his need.” Then remind the people what their “needs” really are. It is a VERY short list. (see my post to Rick above)

    • Angel Wannabe

      kate8,__ Why is it, that the Most Successful individuals of Capitalism, are so willing to stand with the vermin who try to destroy it?___Faires

    • Eric Bischoff

      No!

      We should just stop being so afraid of having open discussions so that we can learn from each other. One side cannot claim to always have the best ideas or solutions. One side is not always right and the other always wrong. It takes a ll kinds of view points to make this world a better place. The status quo wants you afraid of anything that does not fit into their greedy model. That is how they maintain control. The cold war was a lie, a very expensive lie. I am not promoting communism or capitalism, they are both flawed systems that have outlived their usefulness. I believe that we can do much better but for that to happen we need to talk, and listen to each other and then compromise. We need to stop being so afraid of ideas to the point that we demonize them when we really know very little about them. That is the path to greatness. Unfortunately our current system of government controlled by corporations has also reached the end of it’s usefulness.

      Therefore Campaign Finance reform should be our first priority and from there we should break up all large monopolies. We need to decentralize not just government but also corporations. That is how we will regain control where it matters most at the local level and in our communities.

      If you want to learn about what’s possible, just read up on the Mondragon corporation and see what they have accomplished. You will wonder why this has been kept from us and why this isn’t being taught in school as a potential alternative.

      I believe that all the talk about 2012 and armaggedon, although they may be triggered by events, is really about our rebirth and enlightenment and our willingness to finally embrace new ideas that will help us to give up our warring and greedy ways and finally allow us to rise to another more enlightened, peaceful, cooperative level.

      • Vicki

        Eric Bischoff says:
        “We should just stop being so afraid of having open discussions so that we can learn from each other.”

        Who is this we who is afraid?

        Eric:”We need to stop being so afraid of ideas to the point that we demonize them when we really know very little about them.”

        Which ideas would that be?

        Eric:”Unfortunately our current system of government controlled by corporations has also reached the end of it’s usefulness.”

        Our current government is much more crony capitalism then free market capitalism that our founding fathers envisioned. Start by removing government from all it’s violations of the Constitutional contract. Then let’s see what needs adjusting. Note this means the problem is government, not corporations.

        Eric”Therefore Campaign Finance reform should be our first priority.”

        what reform are you thinking of? The ones proposed that I am aware of violate the 1st amendment.

        Eric: “and from there we should break up all large monopolies.”

        Breaking up any monopoly is easy. Start a competing business. You might note that this is rather difficult with government constantly getting in the way. Hence the problem again is government not monopolies.

        Eric:”We need to decentralize not just government but also corporations. That is how we will regain control where it matters most at the local level and in our communities.”

        Corporations decentralize or not as the individuals who own/run the corporations choose. Government force to decentralize when government is the problem does not make sense. Start your own corporation. Run it your way.

        “If you want to learn about what’s possible, just read up on the Mondragon corporation and see what they have accomplished. You will wonder why this has been kept from us and why this isn’t being taught in school as a potential alternative.”

        Potential alternative to what? It is a way of organizing a corporation. It even has 3 bodies for checks and balances. It would work much better in a capitalist economy under a republican form of government then under socialist or communist economy under a totalitarian form of government.

        With government out of the way you can organize your business model over a much wider range of choices. The free will of all the individuals will make it clear which are the workable models.

        Government should focus on preventing others from using force to get us to buy their product. Instead the current government plans to FORCE us to buy a product (Health Insurance). So not only has it failed to do its most basic task but it has joined the enemy.

        • Eric Bischoff

          Vicki you are kidding right.

          This country has been afraid of just the WORDS communism, socialism, unions, liberals, progressives. They know very little about the actual meanings or what their premises are, they quickly jump to name calling or demonizing.
          They are so afraid of just the ideas that they went along with the Korean war, the Vietnam war, the cold war, the McCarthy era, Cuba, Nicaragua.

          They are so afraid that you hear any other ideas than the RepublicRats ideas that they always exclude any other parties from the political debates.

          They are so afraid that they let real alternative ideas guest on the mainstream shows and let them speak. When was the last time you heard someone like Noam Chomsky speak in length or be given any respect on any mainstream network. After all he is only Inernationally recognized as the most critically engaged public intellectual alive today. Yes they are afraid that the general population ever gets to really hear him.

          Campaign finance violating the first amendment. This is where I have to question your real motive and your honesty. One person one vote and publicly financed campaigns would be a lot cheaper and it is easily doable. Afterall we already finance NPR and The PBS so if the mainstream media doesn’t want to play along they lose all revenues from this. Trust me they don’t want to lose these billions. The system is corrupt and rotten to the core and we have lost our ability to be We The People. The power is now clearly in the Corporations camp. Even the Suipreme court works for them and for life.

          As far as breaking up monopolies, we’ve done it before and we can do it again. Our laws support it. We had the perfect opportunity when the banks screwed up by gambling with money they never had. We shopuld have broken them up right then. I personally closed my Bank of America account 2 years ago and I found a local community bank that was healthy. I used Martin Weiss’ rating service to find a healthy bank.

          The Telecom industry was broken up once and they need to be broken upo again. Read the recent article on their $320 Billion swindle. They asked for deregulation so that they could raisew fees to deliver high speed broadband across the enetire country. They raised $320 Billion and did not deliver high speed broadband. We are now way behind other countries in this area. But hey maybe you are OK with that. I am not.

          The reason people don’t know anything anymore and can’t make educated decisions in the electroral process is directly related to the large corprations that control the media. We need newspapers, radio stations and TV stations that are regionally owned and responsive to their communities and constituents. We don’t need an Australian behemoth co owned by a Saudi Prince feeding us faux entertainment news propaganda which a lot of you accept as gospel truth. You poor souls.

          The reason why we are fighting wars for resources is because we have energy monopolies. The sooner we break up the large oil, coal and nuclear monopolies the better. Again it was done once and we could do it again. We need to be able to create power locally and in small scale and the grid must accept it and pay for it. And we need to have a manhattan project to get to solar, wind and geothermal as fast as possible. If a cold place like Germany can be succesul and lead the world with solar power just think what we could do with our vastly greater solar resources. We need to stop the bull. We need a leader klike Hermann Scheer to make that happen. Unfortunately anytime we come close to having someone like that. The morons with the mouthpieces in this country make sure they are made to look like fools quickly. That is the fastest way to change our energy model.

          Let’s definitely break up the huge agribusiness corporations like Monsanto before they destroy the world’s food ability and I think they are very close now.

          The Mondragon Cororation is a corporation that borrows money, competes in the real world and is very successful. The difference is in the ownership and management. One person, one vote and a cap of 6 to 1 in the salary disparity betweent the lowest paid and the highest paid (started with 3 to 1). Another difference is instead of allowing the corporation to merge and get larger and larger they break up any corporation that grows too large to insure that they act responsibly to the community that provides their work force. They are cooperative corporations dedicated to working together but not exclusively. They now have their own banks, clinics and universites. Oh my god they care about the peopl who have helped them become successful.

          I guess we are afraid of that very successful model as most people in America have never heard of them. They only employ 90,000 people.

          You have it backwards. Corporations have taken control. They now have the last piece in place handed to them by the supreme court giving corprations more power over the government than the electorate. Anyone who supports that model is a traitor in my book. This alone is is why we should have a revolution. This which you seem to support Vicki is the only thing we should be afraid of. This is fascism.

          And by the way do your homework, everytime in the past we broke up monopolies, the smaller pieces were worth more in the stock market and they drove the GDP to greater levels.

          Should I go on? If that is not afraid what is?

          The sooner people get over their fear mode the sooner we can get on with being great again.

          • DaveH

            Name a single monopoly that ever existed in this country, Eric. And I’m not talking about the monopolies that were granted and enforced by the Government. You can’t, because it is only a Liberal concept that sounds good to ignorant people. It is impossible to have a monopoly without the force of Government to protect it.

          • DaveH

            Eric says “This country has been afraid of just the WORDS communism, socialism, unions, liberals, progressives”.
            Yes, Eric, and I am afraid of stepping in front of a speeding car also. Every one of those political concepts needs to force their policies on the other citizens, because they wouldn’t voluntarily accept the restraints.
            You whine about the Big Bad Corporations. What exactly is it that they force us to do? Yet, you apparently advocate the force of communism, socialism, unions, liberals, and progressives. These kind of politics can not exist without using the Government as their bully boys.
            Yes, Eric, we are afraid of your kind of thieving forcers. And for good reason.

          • DaveH

            Maybe, Eric, you could see better if you took off your blinders. Or are those sunglasses? What kind of guy has his photo taken with sunglasses on? Oh, I know, you think you are cool. I think you are a dork. A dangerous dork.

        • DaveH

          And No, Eric, Vicki is not kidding. She happens to be well-informed, unlike your kind who base their realities on how they wish the world would be.

          • Kate8

            And let’s not forget that communism has always had a nasty habit of exterminating everyone who disagrees with it, as well as everyone deemed by communists to be unworthy of life. I don’t know about you guys, but that tends to send a chill up my spine. To say folks are afraid of it would be an understatement.

            Even Obama’s close bud Bill Ayers said, back in the ’70s, they figured about 25million would need to be ‘eliminated’. Of course, the numbers would be much higher now.

            Anyone who thinks communism (or anything close to it) would be a better idea now than it has been in the past, or that it would be more ‘tolerant’ of dissent now, is just not facing reality. It’s very nature requires unanymous compliance. It also has left people in a perpetual state of hopelessness, loss of creativity, and misery.

            Eric, go find a real history book and read what communism has ALWAYS wrought on humanity. You many want to re-evaluate your stance.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Eric,
            No, I’m not gonna pick on you, I just wanted to give you some helpful advice. A hot sitzbath will help ease that rather abundant a$$ chewing you just got!!!!

  • http://com i41

    Omoron needs alot of golf and adoring crowds. As some said he must have dry skin since he spent alot of time in bathhouses

    • Eric Bischoff

      i41 We can always count on you to show us the lowest levels that man can reach. You need to ask for forgiveness and you need to atone. You are just plain rude and although I do not agree with a lot of what Obama has done, I at least have the intelligence to respect the fact that he has achieved the level of President and I have not. If we don’t like it we can change it the next time around but that does not give anyone the right to be an ignorant rude bastard in public forums.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Eric,
        By your way of thinking then, I should respect Yassar Arafat for recieving the Nobel, or how about Gore for the greatest ponzi scam ever perpetrated against the American people??? Excuse me if I DON’T respect them!!!

        • Eric Bischoff

          Exactly!
          What have you done?

        • Eric Bischoff

          Although I think he is a criminal who should be prosecuted for war crimes, I can still respect George Bush for figuring out how to play the system and become President of the US. He may have a dynasty behind him and lots of money and even the Bin Ladden family helping him but he pulled it off. I could not do that. You could not do that. People deserve respect. The way some of you talk about Obama, Pelosi, Al Gore and others you disagree with makes one wonder about your upbringing, your level of education and your character. I think you are a disgrace.

          • JeffH

            Eric Bischoff says:
            “The way some of you talk about Obama, Pelosi, Al Gore and others you disagree with makes one wonder about your upbringing, your level of education and your character. I think you are a disgrace.”

            Well gee whiz Eric, I guess it’s very easy for your liberal mind to question the character, upbringing and education of any person
            that questions the Marxist, socialists, communists and the ponzi schemers you’ve just named. Why is it that you liberal hacks always put yourselves above us undereducated American patriots? Oh, that’s right, you’re smarter and your mommy and daddy brought you up properly and obviously molded your charachter to become the fine upstanding little liberal you display for all of us “illiterates” to see. Sorry sonny, I’ll take my charachter, upbriging and education over yours any day of the week.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Why eric!! I’m just cut to the bone from that!!!! Coming from you, on second thought nah, I’m not!!!

  • chuck b

    there’s a lot of talk about the capitalist, the people with all the money, making slaves out of us and communism will save us from that greed. bull!! regardless of what system you set up there will always be those that sit on the top rung calling the shots, that’s the way life is. most of these people supporting socialist, communism or the marxist theory are malcontents and full of envy. our education system has pounded this garbage into our young people since the fifties. when a country over populates, (which we are in the process of doing) especially allowing people to flood across our borders without permission and don’t have the ability to employ such a mass of people. we open the door for communism, “spread the wealth” take a look at africa, they are breeding faster than their ability to feed themselves so then anarchy. we are in the first steps of doing the same in the u.s. we either close the borders and foirce the intruders back to their homw country or we destroy ourselves. then we should revamp the education system and put some patriotism back in the classroom. at the same time we should remove the muslims from our shores, this cult of ignorance should not be allowed here, they can take their sharia law somewhere else.
    people looking for the government to supply them the necessities of life for free should look elsewhere. those that are truly in need we will help. once you start down the road of welfare it’s like pot, it gives you euphoria of a sort for awhile then it demands you keep inhaling and it’s hard to get away from.

    • Eric Bischoff

      Really where is talk I didn’t see any here. Are you paranoid?

  • DaWitchesBroom

    Nov 2 edges closer and closer. Who will win what? I would like some predictions please by state. I think the Repubs will pick up 5 govs, 4 US senators, and 20 US house members nation wide. Am I too low?

    Alabama will remain a Repub governor, remain two repub senators, and maybe gain one repub in the house. That is conservative like me.

  • THIRD PARTY

    UNLESS THE PEOPLE VOTE IN CANDIDATES WITH THE CONSTITUTION IN THE FORE FRONT,WE CAN FORGET ANY REAL DIFFERENCE.BOTH PARTY’S HAVE BEEN SHILLS FOR SPECIAL INTEREST FOREIGN,AND DOMESTIC.WHAT WE NEED IMMEDIATELY IS A SHIFT IN CONGRESS,THEN IF THE REPUB NOT TALK SMACK,AND DOES NOT FUND THINGS THAT ARE RIDICULOUS LIKE THE HEALTH CARE BILL,THEN THAT WILL DIE.CONGRESS HAS ALL THE POWER,NOTHING CAN BE FUNDED WITHOUT THEM,THE NEW CONGRESS NEEDS TO CUT,CUT,CUT PUBLIC SPENDING.EDUCATION,OVER FUNDED,UNDER PERFORMER,POST OFFICE,OVER FUNDED,AND LOSING 5 BILLION A YEAR.OUR GOVERNMENT COULD NOT RUN A DAIRY QUEEN,ALTHOUGH OUR PRESIDENT WORKED AT A BASKIN ROBINS,I DON’T THINK THAT QUALIFIES.

  • Mick

    THIRD PARTY says:
    October 17, 2010 at 8:56 am
    UNLESS THE PEOPLE VOTE IN CANDIDATES WITH THE CONSTITUTION IN THE FORE FRONT,WE CAN FORGET ANY REAL DIFFERENCE.BOTH PARTY’S HAVE BEEN SHILLS FOR SPECIAL INTEREST FOREIGN,AND DOMESTIC.WHAT WE NEED IMMEDIATELY IS A SHIFT IN CONGRESS,THEN IF THE REPUB NOT TALK SMACK,AND DOES NOT FUND THINGS THAT ARE RIDICULOUS LIKE THE HEALTH CARE BILL,THEN THAT WILL DIE.CONGRESS HAS ALL THE POWER,NOTHING CAN BE FUNDED WITHOUT THEM,THE NEW CONGRESS NEEDS TO CUT,CUT,CUT PUBLIC SPENDING.EDUCATION,OVER FUNDED,UNDER PERFORMER,POST OFFICE,OVER FUNDED,AND LOSING 5 BILLION A YEAR.OUR GOVERNMENT COULD NOT RUN A DAIRY QUEEN,ALTHOUGH OUR PRESIDENT WORKED AT A BASKIN ROBINS,I DON’T THINK THAT QUALIFIES.
    ******************************************
    THIRD PARTY ,,,You’re so correct. the new Congress have to cut many useless programs and has to cut the outrageous educational budget with a machete, we spend so much for each pupil and look at what we get in return., a bunch of brainwashed little people incapable of counting of reasoning.
    If the populace were to bother looking at their property tax notice and see the percentage of those taxes going MOSTLY to the educational system not counting what they get from the federal government they would soon realize they we the tax payers are paying FILET MIGNON prices and getting served the hoof of the beast,, Enough paying through the nose for this lefty propaganda machine.

    • Eric Bischoff

      But how will you know which candidate is lying?

      Mainstream media is making sure you know little about the truth and let’s not be brainwashed and confused, Fox is the leader and the most watched so it is mainstream media. The current stable of Tea Party candidates look to me like wolves in different clothing and I think we will soon be disappointed with them as well.

      I don’t disagree with you in cutting waste in government, I just happen to have a different point of view on what to cut. Let’s stop being so afraid and let’s be honest and go for the biggest tickets in the budget.

      1) The military industrial complex is robbing us blind and not needed. There is no reason why we should be spending more on the military than all other nations combined especially when we are broke. No army in their right mind is ever going to attack us, only criminal fools or desperate oppressed terrorists will attempt anything and that is best left to good police work. Stop being so afraid, have some courage already.

      2) Let’s cut agricultural subsidies to millionaire farmers and corporations so that they can grow corn and soy and therefore subsidize the very industry that is making us sick and is the main source of of our high health care costs, the fast food industry. Which by the way also has the indirect effect of destroying the farm economy in third world countries as we dump our cheap subsidized products on them. The Mexican corn farmers have been wiped out by NAFTA. The Haiti rice farmers were wiped out by NAFTA. And now everyone expects all of you to donate and feed the hungry after every disaster because now they can’t even grow the basic staples they used to grow. That is what happens when we meddle in others affairs and we don’t know what we are doing because we are mostly driven by greed. Connect the dots. Everything is related.

      3) Do we really to keep subsidizing oil, coa and Nuclear? Can’t we use our brains and realize that Solar, Wind, Geothermal and other renewables can and will easily, cheaply, cleanly provide and it can be accomplished very fast. Anything is a bold faced lie perpetrated by industries that stand to lose their monopolies.

      4) Let’s stop subsidizing the drug companies and their poisonous products.

      Let’s spend the money on education and the arts. In case you didn’t know it, check out the renaissance project. A study of the great renaissance periods when our siocieties made giant leaps. It tuns out that the education system that created those great periods valued education and the arts. But education was aslo done differntly and that is the important point. By letting people daydream and use the video part of their brain that is a million times faster we got people like Da Vinci or Tesla. They were not factory created engineers, they saw things in their minds as a finished product. Tesla didn’t even have blue prints when he built the still operating generators at Niagra Falls. Get your heads around that!

      But what do we do today when you are a daydreamer, we label you ADD and feed you drugs because want you to be an obedient factory worker. The only problem is we don’t have any factyories left. So now what do we do with you?

      You all complain about teachers and education but you refuse to pay them well so that you can get higher quality teachers. So the pool to draw from is not the best. I am all for paying them more and demanding better results from them. That’s not a complicated bargain that could easily be won from the Unions. Unions are not the problem. Cheap wages is always the problem. Large classes also insure that teachers fail. The army knows that 1 person can effectively manage 5 people but we are asking our teachers to effectively manage how many? And these kids are dumped on them because parents now both working cannot participate in the education process anymore, they are exhausted.

      Cheap wages is why the consumer industry is stalled. We cannot afford to drive it anymore. And wealthy people’s spending, although it is still alive is not what drives this economy we are. Know your power.

      Low tax revenues and bankrupt governments are a direct result off low wages and unemployment.

      Once you put your money where your mouth is then you have the right to demand better results. But you pay people who are creating the next generations crap and you expect miracles from them. Privatizing education will only make some people rich, it will not solve your problems.

      Isn’t it time for higher wages and lower share holder and owner profits? Or are you still clinging to the dream that you have a shot at being part of that obscenely rich 2%? Is that why you all buy so many lottery tickets?

      You got lower income tax rates and lower capital gains rates but guess what? The trickle down theory was a lie. They didn’t grow the economy, they didn’t hire more people, they didn’t start more businesses. They gambled on derivatives and CDO’s. So who are you going to blame now? What are we going to do now ask for lower than lower taxes?

      And what are all the people in that reduced government federal and state going to do? Where are they going to work? What effect will this have on the current tax revenue? Have you thought about these things?

      Have you noticed that every time companies merge lots of people lose their jobs. More unemployment. Is that what we want. Lots of unemployed people and lower tax revenues and less consumer spending. A giant downward spiral where only the rich benefit, sort of, in shares that they cash out on quickly before they are worthless.

      More MacMansions, more high priced wines, more, foreign vacations, and lets not forget the ability to send their kids to the most expensive schools where they can then be guaranteed the best spots running the large corporations that will soon fire your asses. And round and round we go.

      • goldenrod_on_myboots

        Eating out of a dog bowl does not make one a dog. Preaching the standard line of anti-rich, anti-corporation, anti-industrial farming, and anti-big phramacuticals does not make one a liberal or a socialist. Instead, it makes one anti-government and pro high costs. All these industries went the big volume low margin route to provide all the benefits the government was pushing on them such as FICA, unemployment compensation, retirement, disability, health care, and paid leave to name a few. Family farmers usually have none of the above for example. All these costs were spread across the big volume. Government loved the centralization of reporting, tax collection, and risk. The consumer loved the low prices. A few people got filthy rich.

        A problem arose. By reducing the raw material costs to nearly nothing, the old major cost was replaced with a new one, the human costs. Cotton is a good example, but one clouded with the impact of synthetic fibers. I will use it anyway. Cotton used to be able to make a hard working and smart farmer wealthy if the rains treated him right. Then, cotton became so cheap, no one would plant the stuff unless the government paid them. Why did the cotton get so cheap? Advances promoted to reduce the human cost of cotton, see the post about the civil war which was fought by a south that depended on slaves to produce cotton, rice, sugar cane, corn to some extent, tabacco, and initially indigo, allowed more to be planted, cultivated, sprayed and dusted, and then picked and processed with way less people involved. Farms that survived grew in size at the exspense of failed or idled smaller or less productive farms. Industry made some real money for a while. Then, the textile workers wanted more pay, 1965 to 2000. New machines were developed to accomodate the desires for more pay by the workers. A new machine will reduce worker numbers but allow the profit of that production to be spread thicker on the remaining workers and of course the owners who will get richer for a while. Then, tragedy of tradgies hit. It cost less to send ginned cotton in bales overseas, make a garment or sheet, and send that back than it cost to make it here. A waste of good fuel, tire rubber, and ship props but a money maker no less. So, off to mexico we go at first and to other far flug places later. Textile mills are sitting idle or being demolished all over the old cotton belt. the machinery was shipped to the new locations overseas.

        Now, I do not want to be called a communist, but if the communist nature of the capitalist process is not seen you are not looking. A drive to provide the cheap product to the consumer starts the process off. That is a communist program for sure. Low cost goods to the masses at their pleasure. All must be sacrificed for that. A progression begins that ultimatly narrows the producers to a few. Finally, the lack of competition cause the price to rise once again as has happened now with raw cotton, again, keep in mind that synthetics come from oil based materials. Government gets involved trying to stabliized the process and prices. That is socialism. A few working for the pleasure of many. If this is carried out in most industries, as it can be, you will have one or two providers for most products as is often the case now. These providers will bear heavy government and worker mandated burdens that are spread across the hugh sales volume to the masses. Government will try to coordinate the show. All this was done to avoid seeing a destitute share cropper family standing beside a broke down truck with all their broke down belonging drinking water out of a muddy ditch in Mississippie during the thirties.
        Make your choice. Either try to eliminate all suffering and be taken advantage of by the crafty or let failure fall where it may and endure the sight of it. Now, we have taken the first path and they still steal all they can. Very ungratefull. I think the government has failed to provide free crack rock and meth and needs to do so to stop the theft if we are to have any peace.

        These economies are complex but built on simple grounds. To whine about the rich is very very poor thinking. No rich man wakes up every day and says, “wow, what a great day to make the rest of the country poor.” No, he is out to make money. He may not even be very industrious, intelligent, or educated. However, he knows how to turn a buck. Some sell yachets, some sell cars, some sell a service. But, the profit has to be there and the profit times volume is what makes them rich or poor. Just ask any crack dealer. Oh, I forgot taxes because drug dealer have also forgot about taxes. Ever hear a politician mention that. You cannot tax a broke man or woman.

        Think it does not hurt.

        • Eric Bischoff

          I don’t want to be a rich man that only cares about profit. That model is the problem.

          I want to be a rich man that cares about the work force that is helping create the wealth. I want many people to prosper. And I don’t want to be so rich that I don’t want to live with the people who helped me live better. I know a lot of wealthy people who truly believe that they are richer because they are smarter. They start to live in gated communities to protect their often ill gotten wealth. I say Ill gotten because the only way to get super rich is to continue not paying fair living wages to the workforce because you are only concerned with low prices and share holder value.

          If you think that model will survive much longer you are clearly mistaken. It is quickly coming apart at the seams.

          So then please explain to me how a Social Democracy like Germany has managed to hang on to their manaufacturing and excel at it. How they can pay high wages have strong unions, provide it’s citizens free university education, free nursing care and manufacture some of the best cars and also be the leaders in the solar revolution. All of these things and more.

          It seems to me that this is all about CHOICE. It’s about choosing to build a humane healthy society and not worrying about how to pay for it but instead making it work and price things accordingly. And they have and we have not.

          We chose the Walmart model. The lowest price anywhere ever and that goes along with low wages, no benefits, no union and no retirement. And that model is chasing the lowest wage anywhere in the world. Unfortunately like most things in America it was only a short term gain model with no thinking about the future and sustainability. Once the consumers lose their ability to earn, they lose their ability to consume.

          Our model is flawed, inhumane and does not deserve to survive.

          • DaveH

            Then do it, Eric. Start your own business. Pay the employees the fair way you think they should be paid. Only Big Government is standing in your way, Eric. The Big Government that you advocate. Put your money where your mouth is, Eric. It’s easy to talk about how other people should operate their businesses when you have no skin involved.

          • goldenrod_on_myboots

            Eric Bis.

            When determining employees’ pay the big problem is determining the likly future cash flow to cover that pay. Once pay is set, a reduction in pay is difficult to obtain. Really, no employer feels very good asking for a reduction. I never have and would hate to do so. The general counter arguement to a reduction which would be hard to oppose would be that the higher pay was justified at some point and now the worker(s) were dependent on it. A employer just does not wildly or otherwise reduce wages. Workers become dependant on their wages. Also, remember that a business cannot force a sale nor set a price.

  • Howard Roark

    Vigilant…I have not been able to respond as quickly as before. I was recovering from spine surgery and since my last post to you have returned to work. (I no longer have the unlimited time that I had before.)

    This is my reply from our last discussion.

    I am not a southerner. I was born and raised up near the Canadian border.

    I was suprised that you resorted to a put down of me, considering our past informative and civil discussion of the topic.

    Lincoln wrote to Horace Greely: ” If freeing all the slaves would save the union I would do that. if freeing some of the slaves and leaving some in slavery would save the Union I would do that, and if keeping all of the slaves in slavery would save the Union I would also do that”

    Slavery was not even raised as an issue by the north until after the battle of Gettysberg. It is what caused the New York City draft riots.

    The real cause of the Civil War was economic abuse of the Southern States by the nothern States. (see below) the end of slavery was a desirable outcome of the war but it was not the root cause of the war.

    Jefferson Davis and The Civil War:
    It is widely believed that the Civil War was about the issue of slavery. It’s possible that’s why some men fought, but the real cause of the war stemmed from the natural differences between North and South, Industrial and Agragarian. When the two joined together under the Constitution they knew they would be bringing together two different economic and social systems. But at the time the two sections were balanced in population and number of States. So there was no danger of one infringing upon the other. Keeping the equilibrium became harder as the country grew, and the conflict began. The North soon attained power over every department of Government. There were thirteen Northern states and twelve Southern (considering Delaware as neutral), making a difference of two senators in favor of the North. In the House of Representatives, the North had 135 members and the South 87. So, in all questions pertaining to the diversity of interests between the North and South, the South’s interests were sacrificed to those of the North. Through the adopted system of revenue and disbursements, an undue portion of the burden of taxation was imposed upon the South and an undue portion of its proceeds appropriated by the North. The North demanded a high tariff, “so as to monopolize the domestic markets, especially the Southern market, for the South, being Agragarian, must purchase all manufactured goods,” says southern historian Frank Owsley . The South fought the institution of the tariff, and almost seceded because of it. The resulting effect of the tariff was to transfer a vast amount of wealth from South to North. Under an equal system of revenue and disbursements, this would not have happened. Because there was so little restraint to prevent the Government from doing whatever it wanted, a small group of Northern abolitionists saw this as their chance to agitate for freeing the slaves. But whether or not the Abolitionists were sincere and knew anything about Southern slavery can be easily questioned. There could be several ulterior motives for promoting a subject that the country was so divided on. England, for instance, would have liked to see the newly founded country, that might eventually become their rival, self-destruct. In 1835 the Abolitionists organized societies, established presses, sent out lecturers, and scattered incendiary publications throughout the South. This aroused the South, as many regarded slavery as something that could not be completely destroyed immediately without subjecting the two races to a great calamity and the South to poverty and desolation. John C. Calhoun, a spokesman for the South, said that they felt “bound, by every consideration of interest and safety, to defend it.” By safety, Calhoun referred to the instance where slaves killed their masters, and even women and children. They couldn’t have men like this loose without endangering themselves and their families. There is no doubt that slavery was wrong, but at the time a slave was considered property, and a person’s property was protected in the Constitution. The North ignored the law which said that slaves must be returned to their masters if they escaped to a free state, and not only helped the slaves hide but also incited them to escape. This could cause the slaveowners to lose thousands of dollars at a time. The Abolitionists continued in their battle against slavery and gradually gained more and more power, so that eventually they were agitating the whole Union. In 1854 the Republican party was started. The Republicans were opposed to the spreading of slavery, and believed that it should be confined to the Southern states in existence at the time, and not be allowed in any new states. The South was naturally opposed to this because it would only continue to weaken their power in Government. Again, the natural differences between North and South come into play. “The North had interests which demanded positive legislation exploitative of the Agragarian South; the South had interests which demanded that the federal Government refrain entirely from legislation within its bounds – it demanded only to be let alone,” says Owsley. To keep a firm grasp on the South the North had to check its growth. They weren’t stopping slavery, but the spread of the Agragarian ideals. If too many people believed that their rights were being taken away by the Government, the North would lose its power. In 1860, Lincoln, a member of the Republican party, ran for the Presidency and the South declared that if he was elected they would secede. By then, the South’s perspective was that the Union had already been destroyed and the only means by which they were still connected to the North was through force on the part of the latter. Calhoun said that what had been started as a federal republic was becoming a “great national consolidated democracy.” The Declaration of Independence states that “to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new Government…” The Government no longer held the consent of the governed, and soon after Lincoln was elected the South seceded. Jefferson Davis, confederate president, said “as a necessity, not as a choice, we have resorted to the remedy of separating…” Slavery was only one of the many differences between the North and South, it was not the primary reason for the war. Lincoln himself said the war is not about slavery. He told Horace Greeley of the New York Tribune that his “paramount objective in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not to either save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could do it by freeing some of the slaves and leaving others alone I would also do that.” Lincoln may have wanted to “save the Union,” because he knew that the North could not progress without the South. In 1840 the South paid 84% of the tariffs, rising to 87% in 1860. Shortly before Lincoln had become President the highest tariffs in US history were imposed. It’s also possible he knew of the ulterior motives of the men who provoked the South and didn’t want the country torn apart because of them. In any case, Lincoln didn’t have the authority to call in 75,000 men whose first service would be to capture the Confederate forts. To the Confederates that was a plain declaration of war and, under the Constitution, a power granted exclusively to Congress. During the war the North used uncivilized tactics, waging war upon civilian areas. Lincoln justified this on the grounds that he was dealing not with a traditional war but with a rebellion, but it was no such thing. The Southerners had the right to secede, and they were not “rebels” as Lincoln referred to them. No State would have joined the Union if it had known it would have to fight to get out. The Union was a voluntary association; every state had a perfect right to secede. After the Colonies won their freedom from England, they were free and independent States. They had joined the Union of their own free will, and should have been able to leave of their own free will for any reason at any time. The Declaration of Independence gave them that right. Slavery, though wrong, was not the primary reason for the war. The primary reason for the war was the difference between North and South. The South had seceded because of the difference, the war was fought because they had seceded.

  • Howard Roark

    And by the way: if you think Lincoln really cared about the slaves: he liked telling darkie jokes, and after the war he went before Congress asking them to appropriate money to be used to remove all of the slaves from the country.

    • Vigilant

      Hi Howard,

      You’ve mistaken my rejoinder to 45Caliber as a response to you. It was not. Please check the communication thread on the subject (I’m not sure which subject it was under, but not under the title of this blog).

      Notwithstanding the mixup in communication, I feel that the underplaying of slavery, or attempts to excise it from history as a proximate cause of the Civil War, have been traditionally a pursuit of southern historians who can’t face the part played by the South in perpetuating the “abominable institution.” This revisionist history is almost akin, in my mind, to the Holocaust deniers of present day.

      The passage you cited, which certainly attempted to minimize the role of slavery in the Civil War, raised my suspicions precisely because of this. And, sure enough, when I checked out the author, Frank L. Owsley, I saw that he was described as “a noted Vanderbilt University historian and apologist for the Old South.”

      To say that there was virtually no interest in the slavery question prior to Gettysburg, or that Lincoln was neutral-minded when it came to that question is a flat misrepresentation of fact.

      Following are Lincoln quotes, as far back as 1852. It’s a long list:

      If as the friends of colonization hope, the present and coming generations of our countrymen shall by any means, succeed in freeing our land from the dangerous presence of slavery; and, at the same time, in restoring a captive people to their long-lost father-land, with bright prospects for the future; and this too, so gradually, that neither races nor individuals shall have suffered by the change, it will indeed be a glorious consummation.
      –July 6, 1852 Eulogy on Henry Clay

      Slavery is founded in the selfishness of man’s nature — opposition to it is in his love of justice. These principles are an eternal antagonism; and when brought into collision so fiercely, as slavery extension brings them, shocks, and throes, and convulsions must ceaselessly follow. Repeal the Missouri Compromise — repeal all compromises — repeal the declaration of independence — repeal all past history, you still can not repeal human nature. It still will be the abundance of man’s heart, that slavery extension is wrong; and out of the abundance of his heart, his mouth will continue to speak.
      –October 16, 1854 Speech at Peoria

      You know I dislike slavery; and you fully admit the abstract wrong of it.
      –August 24, 1855 Letter to Joshua Speed

      The slave-breeders and slave-traders, are a small, odious and detested class, among you; and yet in politics, they dictate the course of all of you, and are as completely your masters, as you are the master of your own negroes.
      –August 24, 1855 Letter to Joshua Speed

      I believe this Government cannot endure, permanently half slave and half free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved — I do not expect the house to fall — but I do expect it will cease to be divided.
      –June 16, 1858 House Divided Speech

      I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any Abolitionist.
      –July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago

      Now I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social and political evil…
      –October 7, 1858 Debate at Galesburg, Illinois

      He [Stephen Douglas] is blowing out the moral lights around us, when he contends that whoever wants slaves has a right to hold them; that he is penetrating, so far as lies in his power, the human soul, and eradicating the light of reason and the love of liberty, when he is in every possible way preparing the public mind, by his vast influence, for making the institution of slavery perpetual and national.
      –October 7, 1858 Lincoln-Douglas Debate at Galesburg, Illinois

      When Judge Douglas says that whoever, or whatever community, wants slaves, they have a right to have them, he is perfectly logical if there is nothing wrong in the institution; but if you admit that it is wrong, he cannot logically say that anybody has a right to do wrong.
      –October 13, 1858 Debate at Quincy, Illinois

      This is a world of compensations; and he who would be no slave, must consent to have no slave.
      –April 6, 1859 Letter to Henry Pierce

      Now what is Judge Douglas’ Popular Sovereignty? It is, as a principle, no other than that, if one man chooses to make a slave of another man, neither that other man nor anybody else has a right to object.
      –September 16, 1859 Speech in Columbus, Ohio

      An inspection of the Constitution will show that the right of property in a slave in not “distinctly and expressly affirmed” in it.
      –February 27, 1860 Speech at the Cooper Institute

      We believe that the spreading out and perpetuity of the institution of slavery impairs the general welfare. We believe — nay, we know, that that is the only thing that has ever threatened the perpetuity of the Union itself.
      –September 17, 1859 Speech in Cincinnati, Ohio

      Let there be no compromise on the question of extending slavery. If there be, all our labor is lost, and, ere long, must be done again.
      –December 10, 1860 Letter to Lyman Trumbull

      You think slavery is right and ought to be extended; while we think it is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us.
      –December 22, 1860 Letter to Alexander Stephens

      I say now, however, as I have all the while said, that on the territorial question — that is, the question of extending slavery under the national auspices, — I am inflexible. I am for no compromise which assists or permits the extension of the institution on soil owned by the nation.
      –February 1, 1861 Letter to William H. Seward

      One section of our country believes slavery is right, and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong, and ought not to be extended.
      –March 4, 1861 Inaugural Address

      I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel. And yet I have never understood that the Presidency conferred upon me an unrestricted right to act officially upon this judgment and feeling.
      –April 4, 1864 Letter to Albert Hodges

      One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the Southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was, somehow, the cause of the war.
      –March 4, 1865 Inaugural Address

      • Vigilant

        Howard:

        More info on Owsley, an indication of where he was coming from:

        As an active member of the Southern Agrarians group based in Nashville, Owsley contributed “The Irrepressible Conflict” to the manifesto I’ll Take My Stand (1930). In this work, he described “half-savage blacks . . . some of whom could still remember the taste of human flesh and the bulk of them hardly three generations removed from cannibalism.” He lashed out at the North for what he alleged were attempts to dominate the South spiritually and economically. In “Scottsboro, the Third Crusade: The Sequel to Abolition and Reconstruction” (the American Review [1933]: 257–85), he criticized northern race reformers as the “grandchildren of abolitionists and reconstructionists.” He announced that the South was white man’s country and that blacks must accommodate that reality.

  • chuck b

    howard roark

    thank you for telling it like it was. i doubt if many of our contemporary students ever heard or read of this.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      chuck b,
      sorry, but I think Vigilant told it as it was!!!

      • Vigilant

        Thank you Joe!

  • goldenrod_on_myboots

    About the big war. Hard to say what went on 150+ years ago. However, the slaves outnumbered the owners and other whites on most plantations and in most areas of the South. I think there would have been some instances of relaliation if they were suddenly freed. Questions such as payment for food, shelter, and work would have been immediate problems in a nearly cash void system pre-war even.

    I find and also have recongnized for years the parallels between the money system today which is concentrated in the northern states (New York City in particular) and the pre-war concentration of manufacturering and population growth in the North. The South is always begging for money from these Norhtern institutions. I think the us needs a distribution of the risk in banking by breaking up the large banks such as was done with Bell phone. That would eliminate the too big to fail problem. If large money transactions were required by states or cities, they could seek funding or underwriting from several banks.

  • chuck b

    goldenrod

    the solution is simple: “no bailouts by the government”. if you remember
    when itt (international telephone & telegraph) was broken up, the congress destroyed the finest telephone system in the world. this was all in revenge over itt’s supporting general pinochet overthrowing the communist government of president allende in chile. you don’t interfere with communist when you have democrats in charge of our congress.

    • Eric Bischoff

      You are probably right on the reasons for ITT being broken up but your characterization of Allende is obviously a product of our biased school system. I know of Allende as a Democratically elected President who happened to be belong to the Socialist party. A subtle description difference but Ooh sacrilege, a Socialist being Democratically elected!. He committed the typical capitalist crime. He nationalized the countries main resource copper mining and the banks. God forbid Chileans should benefit directly from their deposits in the form of copper and their savings. So in good old american foreign policy fashion, we financed and organized a coup to overthrow him.

      • DaveH

        The citizens never benefit from Socialism. The leaders and their cronys benefit from Socialism.
        Explain Cuba to me, Eric. Explain Korea to me. Or Zimbabwe. Or
        Venezuela:
        http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking.aspx

        • Eric Bischoff

          Oh really,
          How about the best example of all Social Democrat experiment. Germany. I mean come on, if you weren’t so afraid to have meaningful debates and conversations and admit that maybe others have some things they got right that we could learn from. We certainly don’t look like we are the best model right now. Unless of course you are in complete denial of what’s really going on.

          We need to get off our high horses and face reality. We are bankrupt, Our political system is completely corrupt and our corporations could care less about anyone’s welfare they only care about their share price. We have no savings, no equity, no credit, a massive trade deficit, an insurmountable national debt and we’ve turned over our money system to crooked bankers. The Chinese own us.
          We incarcerate millions. We spend more on prisons than education. Oh yeah we’re the best. Keep telling yourselves that. I am sorry but I have higher aspiration for ourselves and going back to Reagan style politics is not it. It’s time to wake up.

          On Cuba again I have respect.
          We economically strangled a nation for the last 40 years for having the nerve to throw out their corrupt leaders and have a revolution we disagreed with. Ooh watch out little island Cuba will turn us all into communist! They have managed under extreme duress to have 98% literacy. Obviously they could show us a thing or two about education. They manage to export doctors al over the world. They have due to scarcity of petroleum products created a successful organic food agriculture. And you have to admit they sure know how to keep american cars from the 50s running forever.

          I can’t comment on Korea or Zimbabwe except that we’ve meddled and we have some responsibility in all messes.

          • DaveH

            Meaningful Debate? How can one debate a person who just spouts personal opinion?
            In Germany, business freedom, and investment freedom are strong. It is hardly an example of where you want to lead our country.
            Any real example of one country or the other proving a political model would by necessity need to include long political periods of both policies, as each country has its own unique demographics, work ethics, natural resources, and geography.
            But history has proven repeatedly by many examples that Big Government doesn’t work for anybody but the political class.
            We are the wealthiest nation on this earth. We became that because our Founders had the wisdom to know that Free human beings work harder and are willing to take bigger risks which result in great rewards.
            Now, ignorant Liberals, led by their unfounded Hopes and Dreams are easy dupes for the power-hungry political class who don’t really care if we succeed or fail, as long as they are on top.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            And yet Cuba’s leader, himself said that it didn’t work!!!!

          • libertytrain
        • Eric Bischoff

          Oh and DaveH I see that you quote the Heritage Foundation. Did you know that the Koch Billionaires who founded and support the Tea Party are also funding the Heritage and they also started the John Birch Society. Nice people!

          • DaveH

            I don’t know if they are nice or not. Nor do I care. I do know that you ally yourself with groups that believe in forcing their way on others, and forcibly taking the money of others to be redistributed to those who didn’t earn it. I do know that you aren’t nice.

    • Eric Bischoff

      On the bailouts

      I am torn on the bailouts.

      At first I thought that maybe we should have let the banks fall but then again their gamble did pay off so far. They are getting their money back and I am sure things would have gotten much uglier in terms of unemployment. Goldman Sachs should definitely be smacked and broken up. They alone could take down the entire world with their derivative exposure. They are implicated in Greece’s financial problems and who knows what other country.

      If we are going to allow corporation to get so big that they can take the whole world’s economy down with them when they screw up then we have no choice but to intervene.

      A lot of you want smaller government and I do too, but I believe that in order to get there we need to take back control away from the too big to fail corporations. Break them up. Once things become more manageable, The states can manage and we won’t need such a bloated federal govt. If we stop trying to police the world and steal everyone’s resources we won’t need such a bloated federal.

      • DaveH

        How about just butting out and letting them fail? Why do your solutions need to involve force?

        • Claire

          I would have loved to see Goldman Sachs go belly-up. Sorry, but they deserve to be taken down a peg or two.

  • chuck b

    eric bischoff

    my characterization of allende is a product of our biased school system??? what are you talking about. today’s school system would idolize marxist type people like allende, capitalist type crime! nationalizing banks and mining companies? what are you smoking?

    it sounds to me like you are a child of the sixties and a product of a truly biased school system. everything allende did was a failure just like castro. probably one of your heroes. the fact is barry soetoro kind of patterns himself after allende don’t you think? nationalizing banks, auto companies and healthcare ind.and it looks like he’s having the same results. you better read better history books.

  • Kate8

    I debated posting this because it’s so long. I received it as intext email, so I have no link. But I decided that it is just TOO important not to post.
    Wait until you see this:

    October 11-12, 2010 — Meltdown of Team Obama. White House in Crisis
    Washington has not witnessed so much top level White House intrigue since October 20, 1973, when a Saturday night saw President Nixon fire the Watergate independent counsel, the U.S. attorney general, and the deputy attorney general in the “Saturday Night Massacre.” Just ten days earlier, Vice President Spiro Agnew resigned after being charged with accepting bribes while governor of Maryland.
    In the case of President Obama, the senior firings are not happening during a single nght but the recent involuntary sudden departures of the White House chief of staff and national security adviser, along with what WMR can confirm from multiple sources is a president who is suffering from Nixonian levels of paranoia, depression, and schizophrenia, has some top-level administration officials considering the first-ever invocation of Section 4 of the 25th Amendment — the involuntary removal of the president from office. The White House meltdown has the Washington political circuit buzzing under the surface.
    Unlike Watergate and the Iran-contra scandal, however, the corporate media is refusing to report on the breakdown of the Obama administration and the internecine political warfare within the Executive Office of the President.
    The “Ulsterman” Diary
    Like Watergate, the rumors about Obama’s mental health, his lack of interest in the routine tasks of the presidency, and his mistaken belief that the crowds who see him on the campaign trail automatically adore him, are emanating from a “Deep Throat,” a former White House staffer who is providing detailed information on the chaos and in-fighting in the White House to a blogger who goes by the name of “Ulsterman.” Ulsterman has conducted a number of background interviews with the former Obama staffer over the past few weeks, publishing them in a series. WMR has independently confirmed with Washington insiders, some with high-level contacts in the White House, that most of the information in the interviews is correct.
    The latest leak from the former White House official has Obama offering Secretary of State Hillary Clinton the vice presidential position in 2012. However, Clinton has no intention of taking the job and may well quit as Secretary of State after the mid-term election, especially if Secretary of Defense Robert Gates leaves earlier than his announced departure of next year and the Democrats suffer a big defeat at the polls on Nov. 2. It is known that Gates does not like the new National Security Adviser Tom Donilon and was not happy that National Security Adviser James Jones was fired earlier than his own planned departure date.
    The other Ulsterman interviews are as follows:
    White House Insider On Obama: The President Is Losing It Sep. 7
    White House Insider Part 2: The President needs to grow up. Sep. 15
    White House Insider: What The Hell Have We Done? Sep. 18
    White House Insider: The Clintons Are Going For It. Sep. 21
    White House Insider: Pelosi and Obama at War Oct. 7
    Another similarity to the Watergate crisis is the usual “pre-crisis presence” of Washington Post influence peddler and original “Deep Throat” conjurer Bob Woodward. Woodward’s new book, Obama’s Wars, quoted Jones as calling Obama’s advisers “water bugs,” an utterance that resulted in Jones’s early firing by Obama.
    Rahm Emanuel’s firing came after he and Mrs. Obama had a major argument, and the First Lady told Emanuel he had to go “for a reason.” Mrs. Obama reportedly flatly told Emanuel he was “no longer welcome at the White House.” The “Emanuel-running-for-Chicago-mayor” story was mere window dressing to cover up the meltdown in the White House leadership. The top-level White House resignations, just before a critical mid-term election, are unprecedented even by Watergate standards. The October 1973 White House instability was one year before the 1974 mid-terms, an election that still saw the Republicans suffer tremendous losses in the Congress.
    As with “Deep Throat” and other past White House leakers, there is as much speculation on who has been speaking to Ulsterman as there is on the earth-shattering revelations coming out of his or her interviews. The leaker’s information indicates that he or she was relatively high-ranking with access to the inner workings of the Oval Office. The following have all left the White House, some abruptly:
    Rahm Emanuel, chief of staff. Resigned effective October 1, 2010.
    Retired General James Jones, National Security Adviser. Resignation announced on October 8, 2010.
    Ellen Moran, Communications Director, left in April 2009, however, the leaks indicate the Obama “Deep Throat” had more recent access to the Oval Office. Moran is now chief of Staff to Commerce Secretary Gary Locke.
    Van Jones, special adviser for “Green Jobs.” Left in September 2009, again, too early to have been privy to later inside information.
    Mark Lippert, deputy national security adviser. Left in October 2009 and went from reserve to active status in the US Navy. Lippert was a “pick-up basketball” partner of Obama during the campaign.
    David Ogden, Deputy Attorney General. Resigned in February 2010.
    Greg Craig, White House Counsel. Craig was forced to announce his resignation in November 2009. Although November 2009 was also possibly too early for Craig to be the source, he is a consummate Washington insider who may continue to be privy to information from within the Oval Office and West Wing.
    Peter Orszag, Director of the Office of Management and Budget. Resigned in June 2010. Like Craig, a strong possibility.
    Retired Admiral Dennis Blair, Director of National Intelligence. Resigned in May 2010. Would have had classified access to White House operations although he did not work in the White House.
    Christina Romer, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers. Resigned in September 2010.
    Larry Summers, Director of National Economic Council. Resignation not to take effect until after November 2 election.
    There are also reports that White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs has been told to look for another job. Defense Secretary Robert Gates has announced his decision to leave but with James Jones’s early dismissal, Gates may move up his departure from the Pentagon. David Axelrod plans to leave as early as March 2011 to work, as he has stated, on Obama’s re-election campaign from Chicago.
    Obama’s depression and paranoia and Hillary’s intentions
    WMR has learned that Obama’s paranoia and severe depression over his correct belief that certain interests are out to get him have been mitigated by First Lady Michelle Obama and domestic policy adviser Valerie Jarrett. Mrs. Obama has been telling Obama that he should forgo a second term because he is “too good for the American people” and he has a future role on a “bigger world stage.”
    It is also being reported from White House sources that Hillary Clinton plans to run against Obama in 2012, something WMR previously reported. The reports that Obama has offered Mrs. Clinton the vice presidential position in 2012 is both an attempt at defusing the reports that Clinton, backed by her husband Bill Clinton, are planning a primary challenge to Obama and an attempt to send a message to Biden, who is considered by Obama to be working with the forces arrayed against him.
    On August 27, 2010, WMR reported on the Obama-Clinton intrigue: “Informed sources in Washington, DC have told WMR that President Obama has been personally told by a delegation of top Democratic Party financiers that unless he radically changes his economic policies they will bolt from him for another Democratic candidate in 2012. The Democratic money moguls conveyed the warning to Obama in Martha’s Vineyard, where the president and his family are spending their vacation. There are various factions within the Democratic Party that see different scenarios to bail out what many Democrats see as an administration in deep trouble with the electorate. One would have Secretary of State Hillary Clinton move up to replace Vice President Joe Biden on the 2012 ticket with Senator John Kerry becoming Secretary of State. However, WMR has been told that Clinton personally loathes Obama and his chief of staff Rahm Emanuel and may not want to be part of the 2012 president ticket playing second fiddle to Obama. WMR has also learned that Obama’s reported ‘severe narcissism’ has a number of his cabinet officials and top Democratic fundraisers perplexed. Obama’s refusal to change course because of his ego was discussed at the recent annual Bohemian Grove conclave in northern California, which brings together influential businessmen and politicians from both parties. Top U.S. business leaders openly complained about Obama’s economic policies, with some stating that Obama is, for the business community, the worst president in anyone’s lifetime. They also complained about White House gatekeepers like Emanuel and policy advisers Valerie Jarrett and David Axelrod who are preventing access to the Oval Office.
    Although such complaints could be expected from Republican businessmen, we have learned that top Democratic businessmen at the Bohemian Grove have told Jarrett, Obama’s chief liaison to them, that all she does is shake them down” for campaign contributions and that the uncertainty on the costs for Obama programs on health care and taxes has prevented the hiring of workers.
    WMR has also learned that rather than change course, the White House staff, who are keenly reading anything that is critical of the president, are more interested in exacting revenge for criticism than in changing course. ‘The White House staff are voracious readers who are obsessed with favorable coverage,’ one source said.
    The Obama administration’s interest in a favorable public image over all other interests has a number of Democrats running for re-election privately miffed. One change many Democratic politicians and fundraisers would like to see is the replacement of Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner with someone with more gravitas and a better handle on fixes for the plummeting economy.”
    On January 7, 2010, WMR reported: “WMR has also learned of a schism that has opened up between Obama’s political team of Emanuel, Jarrett, David Axelrod, and White House pollsters and focus group specialists who meet at the White House every Wednesday and the national security team of National Security Adviser Jim Jones, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. The national security team is convinced that the political team is only focused on the 2012 re-election campaign and not on pressing national security issues. Brawls have reportedly broken out between the two groups with Emanuel looking for ways to threaten Jones, Gates, and Clinton with retaliation if their criticisms of the political team continues.”
    Now that Jones is out, Gates is going — maybe sooner than reported — and Clinton is contemplating leaving and challenging Obama in 2012, the national security team under Biden’s close friend Donilon is now in the hands of a veteran Democratic political team. But the political team has also taken major hits, with Emanuel gone, Axelrod leaving next year, and White House General Counsel Greg Craig having left last January. New Chief of Staff Rouse is a protege of former Senator Tom Daschle and is considered close to Biden’s circle.
    Donilon’s wife, Cathy Russell, is Biden’s chief of staff and his brother, Mike Donilon, a long-time Democratic campaign consultant who advised Bill Clinton in his 1992 presidential campaign, is counselor to the vice president.
    John O. Brennan, Obama’s deputy national security adviser for Homeland Security and Counter-terrorism, is also under pressure to resign. Brennan, after retiring as interim chief of the National Counter-terrorism Center at the CIA in 2005, became CEO of The Analysis Corporation. Brennan’s firm’s employees were among those cited in rifling through Obama’s State Department passport files in January 2008. It was never ascertained what information was gleaned from Obama’s files and possibly those of his mother, grandfather, and grandmother. However, WMR has learned that Obama’s past is curently of interest to individuals linked closely to the CIA.
    Crisis management in the White House
    The White House team now consists of Biden’s circle of Donilon and Rouse, the Obama circle of Michelle Obama, Jarrett, and an increasingly weakened Axelrod, and those in the middle who are not sure about the future of the administration.
    Mrs. Obama and, to a lesser extent, Jarrett, have tried to smooth things over between people like Vice President Biden and chief of staff Pete Rouse on one hand and President Obama, who is detached from his duties, and, according to the former White House staffer who is talking to Ulsterman, extremely lazy, only interested in watching ESPN and discussing sports, and playing golf, and doing what he is most comfortable at: campaigning. Obama clearly wants to run again for president, citing the “adoring crowds” who greet him on the political stump. Mrs. Obama has reportedly told the president that “there are no more adoring crowds.”
    Last March, the annual report on the president’s health contaned a reference to drinking. Obama’s doctor urged him to “Continue smoking cessation efforts, a daily exercise program, healthy diet, moderation in alcohol intake. . .” WMR has been told by informed sources that Obama’s drinking has, on occasion, been more than moderate.
    Previously, WMR reported that Michelle has told the president that he can make more money after one term as president than Bill Clinton has made after two terms. Privately, the First Lady has made no secret of her dislike of her role as First Lady and the constraints it has put on her own ability to make money. In a book about French First Lady Carla Bruni, “Carla and the Ambitious,” Mrs. Bruni-Sarkozy reportedly said that Mrs. Obama told her that life in the White House is “hell.” The White House staffer told “Ulsterman” that he was uncomfortable talking about the marital situation between the president and the First Lady, but WMR has previously reported on Obama’s bi-sexuality, his activities with gay members of Chicago’s Trinity United Church of Christ and an uptown Chicago bath house, in addition to his current controversial relationship with his personal trainer, Reggie Love, and a past short relationship with Larry Sinclair.
    Obama’s depression and lack of interest in his duties have senior administration officials and some Cabinet secretaries considering the invocation of Section 4 of the 25th Amendment, which deals with the involuntary removal of the president for physical or mental incapacity.
    The first invocation of the Section 4 of the 25th Amendment is on the table
    Section 4 has never been invoked. However, on two occasions it was almost invoked on President Reagan, after the March 30, 1981, assassination attempt against Reagan and in 1987 when Howard Baker took over as White House chief of staff from the fired Donald Regan. PBS reported that Baker’s team was shocked over what they heard from Regan’s staff: that “Reagan was ‘inattentive, inept,’ and ‘lazy,’ and Baker should be prepared to invoke the 25th Amendment to relieve him of his duties.”
    When asked by the Associated Press in March 1983 about White House plans to invoke Section 4 after his shooting in March 1981, President Reagan responded, “No one has ever mentioned such a thing to me.” White House Chief of Staff James Baker III countered Reagan’s statement by contending that Reagan must have forgot.
    During the Bill Clinton impeachment episode, there was talk in the White House of creating the position of a White House psychiatrist who would be empowered to ascertain the mental fitness of the president to serve. Clinton’s self-destructive sexual activities were cited as one reason for such a position. Lyndon Johnson’s war-time depression and Richard Nixon’s paranoia were also given as reasons for an “independent psychiatrist” on the White House staff. The issue returned during President George W. Bush’s term of office with reports of alcoholism and depression.
    1972 Democratic vice presidential candidate Senator Thomas Eagleton (D-MO) was stepped down from the ticket after revelations that he had been treated for mental depression. Presidential candidate George McGovern was forced to replace Eagleton with Sargent Shriver.
    A March 14, 1999, New York Times report addressed the issue of presidential psychological problems and quoted former Presidents Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford as being against the idea of a White House shrink. Carter was opposed to a mandatory annual psychiatric evaluation as part of the annual physical examination of the president. He told the Times, “No — You don’t have a mandatory requirement in the law to check a President for athlete’s foot,” but he added, “I believe that mental illness should be considered with the same import as physical illness.” Ford also opposed the idea of a presidential psychiatrist, saying, “I don’t see the need for someone in that discipline being assigned specifically to the White House medical office . . . I think I was normal. I think I am still normal. If I had any problem along that line develop, the White House can acquire the best almost instantaneously.” Senator Ted Stevens (R-AK) also voiced opposition, saying, “The signal to the world that the American President, the leader of the free world, is having to get advice as to his mental condition might destabilize a lot of things, including stock markets and negotiations.”
    Zbigniew Brzezinski, former Carter national security adviser, not rejecting outright the idea of a presidential psychiatrist, said, “The psychiatrist would also probably have to sign a document obligating him to raise an alarm if he detected serious problems that could affect the President’s ability to govern.”
    The present talk about invoking Section 4 has made Obama even more paranoid about his enemies, who he feels range from Biden and the Clintons to the banks and Wall Street.
    Section 4 would allow Vice President Biden, along with a majority of either ‘the principal officers of the executive departments,” the Cabinet or “such other body as Congress may by law provide,” to declare the President disabled by submitting a written declaration to the president of the Senate pro tem Senator Daniel Inouye (D-HI), and the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Representative Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). Under Section 3 of the 25th Amendment, Vice President Biden would become Acting President.
    Section 4 is designed to be invoked if the president’s incapacitation prevents him from discharging the duties of his office. A written declaration to that effect must be presented to Congress. The president may resume exercising the Presidential duties by sending a written declaration to the president of the Senate pro tem and the speaker of the House.
    However, should the Vice president and Cabinet remain unsatisfied with the president’s condition, within four days of the president’s declaration that he is fit, may submit another declaration that the president is incapacitated. The Congress must then assemble within 48 hours, if not already in session. Within 21 days of assembling or of receiving the second declaration by the Vice President and the Cabinet, a two-thirds vote of each house of Congress is required to affirm the President as unfit. Upon this finding by the Congress, Section 4 states that the vice president would continue to function as the “Acting President.” If the Republicans win one or both houses of Congress on November 2, a lame duck Democratic-led Senate and House might have to deal with the invocation of Section 3, something that could plunge the country into a constitutional crisis.
    If Biden were to become president, he would have to nominate a vice president subject to a majority approval of the Senate and House of Representatives. Again, a lame duck Congress may find itself thrust into approving a vice presidential successor and Biden would likely want such a decision to fall to Democratic-led chambers rather than one or both being controlled by the Republicans. In such an event, Secretary of State Clinton, the senior Cabinet member, may find herself as the favorite. Current talk in the corporate media about Clinton being offered the vice presidential slot by Obama in 2012, and her rejection of such a scenario, may be part of a campaign to prepare the American people for a vice presidency, not under Obama, but under Biden.
    Enter the CIA
    In another eerie replay of the Watergate crisis, WMR has learned that the CIA has not sat by idly as the Obama White House has unraveled. WMR has previously reported on Obama’s and his family’s past links to the CIA. However, Langley appears ready to take advantage of the weakening position of Obama to bring about added uncertainty.
    WMR has learned from a reliable intelligence source that the CIA has secretly contracted with a retired top CIA official who was a principal actor in the Iran-contra scandal, to uncover any information that could be damaging to Obama from his past. On the table are any documents and information on Obama’s place of birth, his paternal parentage, and his past employment activities. By contracting outside the CIA’s normal channels, the agency is seeking “plausible deniability” should documents or information damaging to Obama be uncovered and subsequently leaked to the media.
    The retired CIA official has recently been active with a carve-out special Pentagon intelligence-gathering contract approved by his one-time boss at the CIA, then-CIA deputy director Robert Gates, now the defense secretary, and CIA Director Leon Panetta, President Clinton’s White House chief of staff. There is at least $15 million of Pentagon funds unaccounted for in the CIA’s off-the-books intelligence-gathering operation, reported to have officially been for counter-terrorism operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The contractor firm has been involved in domestic and foreign intelligence operations for the CIA and FBI for at least 20 years, including monitoring labor strikes, investigating at least one U.S. Supreme Court nominee, and its linkage to the FBI corruption case involving Boston criminal syndicate boss James “‘Whitey” Bulger.
    The scenario of invoking Section 4 of the 25th Amendment is a worst-case scenario but the mere fact that it is “on the table” provides an indication of the current dysfunctional situation in the White House. Democratic Party leaders are scrambling in anticipation of major losses on Nov. 2 in the Congress and state houses. President Obama may soon find himself at the receiving end of senior Democratic Party elders who will bear a “shock therapy” message: “shape up or ship out.”

    • JeffH

      Kate8, I’ve been reading the same stuff. It becomes more evident every day that it’s time to get off the Obama bus.

    • DaveH

      I can only imagine the nasty, pushy environment that results when controlling, thieving Liberals try to get along, because I keep my distance from the creeps.

    • Christin

      Kate8,
      Wow… I have not heard of much of this before… wow!

      It was very lengthy, but worth the read. So the obama titanic is sinking… that is GREAT news!

      BHO is a failure to America and Americans. He is an extremely POOR (Marxist, Non-Christian, Anti-American) Leader and (adulterous, bisexual, smoking, drinking, paranoid, incompetent, narsistic) Role model for our nation… good riddence… after Nov 2, 2010 or Jan 20th, 2011 when the new Congress convienes.

      If those Presidents have to live with people dropping like flies around them, even their gay lovers, and take part in the corrupt, cult Bohemian Grove practices I have heard about it is no wonder they are depressed… that’s what happens when you dance with satan.

      Hillary’s one of them… an admitted 20th Century Progressive (Communist), and you Dems better know she will be stronger than gay-boy and I have heard 70 people dropped dead under billy and hillys reign. Think “hillary care” (obamacare)and say no thanks.

      Christians, always pray without ceasing… pray that the Light will shine on the darkness and expose those corrupt and evil; and that their words will be folly and lies revealed. Pray that Americans will hear and follow that which is good and true.

      Thanks for the informative post Kate8. You get the info out there for us and have great dicussions.

      PS. BTW, what is WMR in the article?

  • chuck b

    kate8

    this is probably true and most likely a scenario set up by bill clinton and company. the clintons are frothing at the mouth to get the white house back. if the people in this country would vote for a person in most psrt because he talks good and is black they kind of deserve what they get. it doesn’t take a wall street attorney to have seen what barry soetoro consisted of. the clintons would even be worse, hillary would be installing herself as the first queen of the world.

    • Claire

      chuck b — I have an eerie sense that you are correct about the Clintons. These two people will create anything imaginable to further their own gain. They are scary, especially her. Hillary was totally livid when she did not get the nomination. I wouldn’t put “anything” past them. I think they are capable of doing whatever they have to do to get where they want to be.

  • Kate8

    Hillary is scary, all right, and lots of democrats love her. Just like they love Nancy Pelosi and the rest of them. Amazing to me how the ‘little people’ democrats don’t have a problem with the wealthy elite of their persuasion, who live off the backs of the taxpayer. All they have to do is tout how they will ‘tax the rich’ (themselves exempted) and they rake in the party votes.

    I’ve been reading about how the Clinton’s wealth is ALL courtesy of the US taxpayer. Bill rakes in – what is it – something like $80,000 per month in taxpayer money. Obama is around $75,000 per month. This is over and above any salaries or earned income. Just skimmed off the backs of taxpayers.

    Also, while they are stripping us of any semblance of privacy, no one from the public is allowed inside Nancy Pelosi’s $65,000 per month office space, paid for by guess who. It’s private.

    Ya gotta wonder if Obama’s concealed history is just a means of bigger fish keeping him in line. No wonder he’s depressed. He has nothing to do but wait for TPTB to stick him in front of a camera and tell him what to say next. If he doesn’t tow the line he gets tossed out after being ‘discovered’ to be illegitimate.

    Oh what a tangled web we weave…

    • JeffH

      Kate8, I guess you must have seen the John Dennis bit asking Pelosi to debate him, searching all over SF looking for her then being denied access to her official “palace” office, although it”s paid for on the taxpayers dime.

    • Claire

      A lot of the politicians give their little “speeches” and are paid an exorbitant amount of money. They all earn money this way. Plus they “write” a book (with a ghost writer) and amass a fortune. This is the reason why I have never purchased a politican’s book. It makes me feel better knowing I did not buy their book and added to their fortunes. Silly, I know but this is the way it is with me. Besides, I KNOW they all had HELP writing their books. They didn’t do it alone.

      • Claire

        Good grief– politician!!

        • goldenrod_on_myboots

          Don’t worry about spelling. I can hardly spell at all. I think spelling is arbutarry inyway. I will take my IQ against anyone’s unless spelling is involved. Surely everyone just reads in the right word anyway.

          • Claire

            I know, but I edit for a living! That is ironic. LOL

    • Claire

      Kate8–You are right. Democratic women adored Hillary. Remember all the fuss about them voting for Obama? They wanted Hillary, and from what I can tell, they still do!!

  • chuck b

    this is really where politics get interesting. the clintons are undermining barry, the demos will most likely push thru some kind of amnesty with the help of our rino buddies, that is if they survive the election. if they get amnesty hillary will be a shew in. as far as i’m concerned, hillary knocked over vince foster and is a cold blooded killer. the clintons are scum. ken star was a failure as a special prosecutor, typical wimp, so the future of the u.s. looks dim looking at our political future. what is discouraging is the fact we have this many people who vote for their own selfishness and what they think they can derive free from our government.

    • Claire

      chuck b — You know, I always thought they had Vince Foster taken out. Another thing, I have a gut feeling that if one of them runs for POTUS, they will be elected. I know a lot of people that like the Clintons. Makes no sense to me at all. The Clintons have the power, and it makes me wonder who is behind them too. They certainly have more power than Obama. You are right, Ken Starr was a pansy.
      All this makes me think of Rahm Emanuel. Wonder if he will be Chicago’s next mayor? It could very well happen unless someone puts a pair of cement shoes on him. No, that won’t happen. I think all of this was planned ahead of time. I still find it odd that Daley will not run for re-election. Something is going on. Something that may very well be more powerful than the Daley machine?

      • Christin

        Claire,
        Do you remember last week Bill Clinton saying something on TV like some of the people in America are in need of psychiatric help that are against these policies… those that are not for the NWO and Progressive taxation & spending, big gov, take over of America.

        Bill and Hill are again showing their true colors.

        It is amazing to me that they aren’t in jail and can walk around free showing their faces after so many are dead. I had heard it was 36, but someone here posted 70!!! (Remember “hillarycare” and say NO!)

        • Claire

          Christin–No, I did not see Bill on tv because I didn’t watch much tv last week. His smile? smirk? doesn’t do a thing for me. He is on an ego trip. But people still like him. I know a lot of older people in my church that think he is great. They would vote for him again or so they say. I think Hillary is the one to be wary of. I wonder if she will run for POTUS? She may play the waiting game and if Sarah runs, Hillary just might throw her hat in the ring.

      • Claire

        The time of my post is odd- it is only 7:33 p.m. here.

        • Claire

          Never mind–it has been a long day.

  • chuck b

    Quote from Peter Schmuck, a Baltimore sports writer,

    “Isn’t it great to live in a society where the penalty for lying to a congressman can be up to thirty years in jail, but the penalty for a congressman lying to you is another two years in office.”

    • Christin

      Good quote… they have put it in print that they are above the LAW, but American citizens are NOT.

    • Claire

      chuck b — Good one indeed!!!

  • goldenrod_on_myboots

    Interesting report on the Presidental meltdown. Seems he is being run by Ms. Obama. Often, the women in black families are the pillar of strenght. I do not want her as President like Ms. Wilson.

    I think all of the recent Presidents have to be a bit crazy to run in the first place. A White House psychiactry board is a very bad idea. Congress and his party in particular should know when to call him unfit for the job. I rather he watch ESPN and stay drunk. He can do less harm. Biden can keep us as secure as we are going to be anyway.

    Reporters before and after the 2008 election reported on President Obama’s manic depressive nature and his need for crowd induced highs. Captain Blight brought back the sailors from the Bounty. Maybe President Obama will come around. Otherwise, some strange events may spring out of Pandora’s Box and make voodoo economics seem like the good ole days.

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