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Wisconsin Labor Dispute Takes National Spotlight

March 1, 2011 by  

Wisconsin labor dispute takes national spotlightIn protest of Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's budget proposal, a total of 14 Democratic legislators have fled the state, many teachers have abandoned their classrooms and tens of thousands of Americans have convened at the State House, with some people even sleeping inside the building.

Walker's plan, if approved, would limit collective bargaining rights for most State employees as well as force them to contribute more money to their health insurance and pensions. Several prominent Republicans have pledged their support for the embattled governor, including former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty and former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee.

According to Politico.com, Pawlenty recently released a video backing Walker in the labor dispute. Pawlenty, who is a rumored GOP Presidential candidate for 2012, directed viewers to sign a petition titled "Stand With Governor Scott Walker."

"The gig is up for public employee groups who demand better benefits than the taxpayers who are paying the bill," the petition says. "I'm confident Governor Walker's reforms will succeed in Wisconsin. Stand strong, Scott — average taxpayers everywhere are rooting for you."

Management expert Brooks Holtom of Georgetown University has taken exception to some protesters' claims that public union workers are paid considerably less compared to private employees. Holtom told NPR that when job security and benefits are taken into consideration, there's no question that public workers are pampered.

"At a time of high unemployment, it's not hard to understand why people would question why these [public union] workers have these protections," Holtom told the media outlet. "What's so special about these workers?"

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  • s c

    The new “morality” progressives have must be contagious. How is it possible that America can have a state where so-called teachers can do more good OUT of a classroom than IN? Governor Walker owes it to himself and the TAXPAYERS of Wisconsin to FIRE every ‘teacher’ who thinks that being in a classroom is “immoral” unless THEY get their way.
    While you’re at it, Governor Walker, two can play the game that some your half-assed legislators are playing. When they decide to ‘come home,’ keep the SOBs O U T of Wisconsin. Have them met at the state line and kept OUT of Wisconsin by your state troopers. They’ve already proven that they care more about themselves than the people of Wisconsin. Maybe they can move to Illinois. I hear Rahmbo is looking for THUGS and two-legged vermin who have no use for responsibility or ethics or morality. Stick it to ‘em, Governor Walker. Let the SOBs savor the flavor (and invalidate their state credit cards, too). Enough is enough! Replace the scum with homeless people.

    • http://MSN.com Linda R

      Obama has lied to American people so many times and so outrageously that I cannot give credence to anything he says. Look corporations are announcing their departures from U.S. because of over regulations and taxation. When Libya rioted America rented a “ferry” to deport U.S. citizens which cannot be used for ocean travel so delays occurred. The “teachers unions” (near) have a monopoly and instead of the “FTC” investigating their behavior Obama supports the protesters.
      Barrack Obama still isn’t allowing drilling in the Gulf of Mexico and fuel prices have soared since. He is not fiscally responsible and has no understanding of a budget! He also said he would end the wars! What about gitmo and illegals having more rights than the citizens of the U.S…
      President Barack Obama says “the economic recovery will stall if Congress can’t agree on spending cuts and avoid a government shutdown. “ Oh, he’s a genius… He’s finally coming around to the fact that his over spending was not a good idea – as the GOP was trying to tell him for the past 2 years.
      The Democrats did not pass the Budget last year, so they could use a Government shutdown against Republicans. They knew Republicans were going to cut the budget and that the Senate or Obama would not allow the cuts. This is strictly part of their campaign for the 2012 elections. Obama said “A Politicians Job is to get Re-elected”, he never said anything about serving the people of this Country.

      • sylviam

        Amen— But thats not all BARAK Obama is trying to get done, Yes he wants to be re-elected and also BREAK ALL THE STATES so he can BRING DOWN AMERICA, as we know it!!!!!!He and his SOCIALIST cronies want us to be *SOCIALIZED* just like most of EUROPE IS. Socialized Medicine, Socialized Justice, Social every-thing.
        Van Jones said it, Obama and Michelle, said it along with the rest of their SOCIALIST people he has surrounding him. Now is the time for us all to STAND UP FOR WHAT WE BELIEVE IN, starting with Gov. WALKER and the rest of the PATRIOTS, GET RID OF THE TRAITORS.
        GOD BLESS AMERICA

        • http://MSN.com Linda R

          Half of Barack Obama’s presidential term has expired. And it seems that we have only just watched the ceremony of his inauguration with great interest – and small wonder. Barrack Obama became the first Afro-American President in the history of the US.
          Barrack Obama has failed on health care by cutting $500 billion from Medicare, cutting and eventually destroying Medicare Advantage programs for seniors, our most dependant citizens, while pushing 16 million people onto state Medicaid programs already in financial failure in every state in the union, but nobody really wants to talk about this as our health insurance premiums rise with less care provided for.
          The economic stimulus failed and did not lower unemployment to 8 percent as promised, but we are told to believe that without it our economy would be worse.
          The Wall Street bailout and regulations, we are told, will be a stimulus to the economy while we still have about 9.5 percent unemployment or more and 15 million people are looking for jobs, and at the end of the year, 4 million houses will be foreclosed on, but we are moving forward.

          • eddie47d

            Linda; Drilling was opened up in the Gulf last fall in case you hadn’t heard. Nobel Drilling was granted a permit just today if you care to read the business section of the paper.

      • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

        this what you get when americans for get there civic duty crazy people take over are american goverment is corrupt bank rolling dictators i want our military to stay home our army is not gi joe save the hoe world we are not the ones who decide what kind of goverment foregin country will have we need to clean up our own neighborhood crime is rampant in all major cities illegal imigrents come here at will the suprem court has ruled who ever is here can benefit from any social programs afforded for citisens they come here and engage in crimnal acts the first thing they do is commit crime they are illegal imigrents what part of illegal is not under stood its a crime

        • Jana

          Raymond,
          What you have to say is very interesting, but there is a reason for periods and commas and capital letters. It actually makes what you have to say more comprehensible. It is very difficult to read your comments.
          Thank you.

          • Linda

            I agree. I just have to skip this kind of writing, unforunately for the writer, who wastes their own and everyone elses time.

      • http://MSN.com Alice

        “The Detroit public school system is purchasing 40,000 laptops for all of the 6-12th grade students in the district. On top of that, every single teacher in the district is receiving 50000 computers, 4,300 scanners and printers are being purchased. Computers, printers, and scanners with a total price of $49.4 million from taxpayers money.”

        Next, $49 million spending in at time when our country in a worse economic crisis since we’re facing a $14 trillion national debt. But $49 million is a lot of money. And the Detroit public school district, which has a $332 million deficit of its own, isn’t spending the money on quaint, unnecessary education tools like teachers and books; instead they’re buying computers.

        I’m still wondering why they need to push this kind of technology on the children when they can’t even read. Why didn’t the federal and state Governments spend this money to hire more teachers and it would more benefit to those children? I believe it is total waste of $$.

      • Lilly M

        People, quit wringing your hands and keep up the pressure on demanding his BIRTH-CERTIFICATE. Yes, the real one, not the COLB that any child born anywhere could get in Hawaii. Then we can not only get rid of HIM, bur the laws HE signed and the Superior Judges HE appointed and HIS cronies confirmed. Sounds like a plan??? No, IM not a crazy “birther”, I am an American of sound mind who has researched the matter.

    • Ellen

      As usual, unions resort to extortion. They stop working until they get what they want. You can call it a walk-out or a strike, but it’s still extortion. It takes great nerve or great stupidity to walk-out and make demands when you have been doing a poor job. Obviously, these teachers are not cranking out well-educated kids since we saw the statistics. Laziness, mediocrity and entitlement are the results of unions.

      • Jana

        I have noticed these unions sure seem to have a lot of money to ‘donate’ to the candidates of their choice. Where do they get this money? From the workers/members and us.

        These union dues allow the union bosses to elect and buy the politicians who negotiate their compensation packages. They of course buy the politicians who favor unions and who will do as they are told. They then own these politicians. It keeps going in a circle, and the taxpayers then have to foot the bill for their pensions which the unions also take a portion of.

        This rigged game has led to public employee benefit packages and pensions that are bankrupting state after state across the nation.

        All of this is called power. Well, we the people can ban together to stop this,as we are powerful too.

        • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

          at the end of the day it is crime so why does no one go to jail its like politicans get a pass

      • Aron

        I think you have never been in a union or in on a nogiation. The union is only as strong as the people in the union. in nogiati0ons the union boss do not make the decision on contracts. the people in the union pass or decline the contract. Accept or decline. It is a give and take between Company, and people that work for the company. The big diference between you asking for benifits and all employes standing to gather asking for benifits. It is the next step in our democratic way of process. WHEN WE THE PEOPLE WHEN UNITE!!!!!!!!!!! HAVE POWER.

        • eddie47d

          Jana; Unlike Corporations Unions are actual people not brick and glass buildings.Because these working men and women negotiated for a better paycheck or pension than what you receive you get all mad. If their salaries were truly above and beyond the private sector you may have had a point. Now this is the 3rd time I’ve asked someone to show me a comparable job in the private sector where unions are being unfair. It could be true so lay out the facts and ditch the smoke and mirrors.

          • Jana

            eddie,
            These union bosses, of course they are people just like the heads of these corporations are people. They certainly aren’t monkeys. However, they still have to abide by the laws, that their bought and paid for politicians pass to make what they do legal.
            People that work for the gov’t, which we are supposed to be the gov’t. have to foot the bill for their retirements and health care plans. As their employers we are explaining we are broke. Not just to Wisconsin, but to ALL gov’t employees.

            As for collective bargaining, it’s a rigged game has led to public employee benefit packages and pensions that are bankrupting state after state across the nation. These rights are legislatively created,” Political things change and every state hasto make their own determination on whether or not to allow it to continue.
            What is wrong with individual bargaining rights? Its done all over the country and successfully I might add.

          • Dan az

            Come on eddie did you forget the last time I told you!Remember the guy standing on tv in shorts and tennys working the hand controls to a convair which made 75 dollars an hr not counting his bennies?Yea thats tough work isn’t it?How about the flag holder that sits on a chair in the highway and makes 25 an hr not counting the bennies?What was it that you did in the union by the way?

          • eddie47d

            …..and those are compared to what jobs in the private sector? Still no answer!

        • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

          listen to this aron i have been a union in a union shop the union speaks for the workers and until the workers disban the union thats how it works here in topeka kansas there was a union were i worked the rank and file excepted managments offer we wanted to go back to work the union wanted more this company was going to merge with frito lay instead there was a lock out the company went over seas now seymour foods is no longer in topeka kansas they only thing the union wants is more dues paying members the union is the problem these jobs that were lost to union greed were good paying jobs they were easy jobs

        • oldtimeyman

          Look at what the unions, DemocRATS and NAFTA did to Detroit and Gary, Indiana.

          • Daniel

            Sorry pal, I was born in and lived in Gary, IN until last year. That was destroyed in the 1980s by that bastard Ronald Reagan. During his term, the US went from being the biggest lender in the world to the biggest borrower. Look it up. It had nothing to do with unions or NAFTA. Try again. Next time use real facts.

    • http://MSN.com RonaldL

      Our Federal Government, State Government and local Governments are all in financial trouble. The Federal Government created the mess with the policies like NAFTA and others that has rewarded companies for outsourcing jobs and moving the manufacturing to low wage labor countries.

      Do you realize that the interest we are paying on $ TRILLION we ‘borrowed’ from the Chinese is paying for their military budget and development of their weapons of mass destruction? Not to mention terrorizing and denying their citizens even basic human rights.

      Yes, $14 TRILLION of National DEBT is not only a National disgrace, but it is also a clear and present danger to our National Security.

      • Mitch

        yes it comes to 1.3billion a day, thats a trillion every 765 days Gone Spent with Nothing to Show for It, D.Trump was right on when he said we need to tax chinese imports and cheap imports period 25% off the top, that tax would go a long way toward rebuilding american factories so we could start making our own tv’s, cell phones, computers, etc etc, fair trade should be fair across the board, other countries limit cheapo imports and so should we, I live 45 miles from Gilroy Ca. the noted garlic capitol of the country but when I went to buy garlic for thanksgiving dinner last year it said on the package label Product of China, we are in CA replacing the SF Bay Bridge and the materials and towers are made in China and shipped, Oakland harbour just installed several new cranes for onloading shipping containers, the cranes were built in China and they are needed to unload a ship that comes here from china filled with crap and is then loaded with empty containers to return to China, this insanity must be stopped….

        • eddie47d

          When unions tried to stop NAFTA and too level the playing field with import taxes they were shot down. The opposition said it was against our Free Market principles. Who was on the workers side back then?

          • Dan az

            eddiee
            Did you vote for clintoon and gory then you didnt stand for the workers!I voted for Ross P. to try to stop it but the fix was in.

          • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

            i dont recall any politicans bowing out of the vote the union had its day

      • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

        you are right are goverment reps are dragging us into a hole democrats are like the devil better to rule in hell then to serve in heaven if our president is not the devil hes sitting in for the devil everthing he says is a lie is like hes father the father of all lies luciefer satan belsaubaub and many names he takes he is sweet in the mouth burns with fire in the belly

    • oldtimeyman

      Well said. Tie teacher pay to student performance and I agree with you that if the legislators have fled the state, they should be stripped of state residency, denied their seat or have Wisconsin citizens file a Writ of Mandamus against each one of them which would force them back to their jobs.

    • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

      yes indeed fire them all

  • http://deleted Claire

    They are all dictators. They are in office for themselves, all of them. Since when did any of them truly think about America and all Americans instead of the next election? Since when did any of them conduct themselves honorably and ethically and have the decency to be honest about the issues at hand? I think politicians think more about themselves, period.

    • Al Sieber

      I agree Claire they are all bought and paid for, and sold out their souls. we really have no political choice.

      • Jana

        Claire,
        Even though what you say is true (sadly), it is still the only system we have at the moment to work with. I would rather be under this system than a dictatorship. I realize that this is what Obama wants for us, but at this point we still do have options, and that is by our vote. We must hold them accountable and even if your congressperson acts like he doesn’t hear you, write and call anyway. That is our right to do so. Please don’t get discouraged.
        As the Bible states in Ephesians, “When we have done all we know to do to stand, stand therefore… putting on the whole armor of God.
        We are strong, we will stand.

    • Larry Owens

      you seem to understand the problem.

    • libertytrain

      Claire, I think you are correct and every politician I have ever met (and I have met too many), with the exception of the late Sen. Proxmire/Wisconsin, fits your description perfectly, both sides of the aisle, no matter what their title was, from the lowest to the highest in the Country.

    • http://Benlittleeagle@aol.com Ben little eagle Stephens

      Clair I agree with all you said’
      when and if and when the 14 people that are hiding out so they don’t vote this is not what the get paid for us the people they need to be handed there discharge papers when they show back up and withe discharge paper a paper stateing they will receive no Retirement money and they will have to pay socicial security and they will have to pay for there own insurance and they will have to pay for the fine homes they live in that is if they can get a job to finish paying for them If I were in the most powerfull seat instead of a foriener I would give them all there walking papers. Ben Little Eagle Stephens a 100% disabled Native American Vet from the two wars that were not called wars Korea and Vietnam.these were other democratic mistakes.

      • mike

        Thanks for your service. It seems way too many people forgot what men like you were and are willing to give up to to keep the freedoms that we have!!!!

    • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

      been like this for quit some time now what kind of worker gets to decide there own pay raise senators and congress and just what are sentaors and congress going to cut there pay give up the perks 190 thousand dollars is a lot of money i think they should paid the same as the average amount of money americans make its also time for the federal goverment do what the constituiton say they can do and no more get out of school and ever thing else they are doing

  • Warrior

    I watched part of the NGA meeting last night on C-Span. Bill Gates was giving a talk about edumacation in this country to the Governors and Bill gave some very telling facts about the progress our edumacation system has made in the last FIFTY years. For instance, did you know we now have twice as many teachers today PER student than in 1960? If you count the “support” staff there are 3x as many. Of course, the money spent per student has absolutely “skyrocketed”. Funny thing about this is the results have gone down and especially in the “core competency curriculum”. Go figure! If you haven’t seen it, I highly recommend viewing it. Aren’t these “Make Work” programs just great?

    • Jovianus

      Yeah…statistics are nice to use to not tell the whole story. The mandates to include Spec. Ed., Head Start, Bush’s federalization of schools with his NCLB program (what a fiasco), desegregation, etc…none of that was counted in the statistics used by the Right in comparing old with current.

      But, why let that interfere with a good rant against our education system.

      • Brad

        Jovianus,

        Sorry dude, statistics are gathered over time and they tell volumes when compared against said apples and organes. Statistics tell us how good we are doing or how bad we are doing, and our educational system is letting our children down, and I’ll agree with you about NCLB, it should be canned and rewritten from scratch. When 50% of our 12th grade students leave school their basic reading skills hover around the 9th grade level, now that’s bad. Today is it right for a teacher to give a failing student a passing grade because he/she doesn’t want to scare the kid for life? In today’s society we want to blame something on some one instead of pointing the finger at ourselves, yes we the parent’s, I have two daughters, my wife and I work with them nightly on home work because I want them too succeed, I want them to have a better life that I had. You sit here and bitch moan gripe and complain every single day and bring nothing of substance too the table except for liberal/progressive talking points, as with eddie47d, doc and the rest of your liberal cast on our blog. Teachers are public employee’s and by law should not be subject to collective barginning agreements? As a prior military member, now retired, would it look right to have the entire military under collective barginning control by the unions? waiting for your answer, DUDE!!!

        • Jovianus

          OK Sparkey..here’s my response.

          1. It’s not against the law in most states to have collective bargaining. The poorest least educated less affluent states are those which have ‘Right to Work’ laws against unions and collective bargaining.

          2. As you pointed out, statsitics can be ffective when used to compare similarties. But I’ve found most Conservatives don’t compare apples to apples in their use of data , they skew them (as do most othr special interests…so one has to be careful when spouting them)

          3. The military is far different than any other “public service’. As you well know, you join the military, the US military owns you. That’s what being in the military is.

          4. As you again point out, parents are the driving force behind good educational habits. Teachers can only do so much without parental help and assistance. Sadly, most parents renege on this aspect of parental responsibility.

          5. Public employee unions do not “force’ anything…it’s a contract negotiated for. As a unit. Covers all without having unfair advantages of some over others.

          How’s that?

          • ValDM

            Which means that a competent or even superlative teacher gets the same pay as the barely competent. Yep, sounds fair to me. When unions bargain for merit increases for good teachers and punishment for those who can barely make it to work (and perform poorly), then I might think your arguments hold water. Until then, you’re just an annoyance.

          • Jovianus

            Actually ValDM….you should pay more attention. I never stated anywhere in these posts today or before that there should be a measure of comptence with teaching nor that good ones should not be elevated above poorer ones.

            Those are bargaining issues in a contract. Now…if there were contract negotiations concerning a new collective bargaining agreement, and that was the issue for a strike or refusal to bargain…we’d have a different issue.

            But nowhere has the good gvernor stated that was any of his concern. As well…he makes no metion of it being a concern with any state employee or union. He wants to bust the union and take away collective bargaining rights of the American Worker. And he wants dolts like you t rant about nonsensical issues while the real agenda and payoffs to his controllers remain hidden in the bill.

            In other words, he is counting on your ignorance and unwillingness to look past the non issues…

          • sylviam

            Just WHO are the teachers *COLLECTIVELY BARGAINING WITH? The TAX PAYERS ARE THEIR EMPLOYER but WE are NOT in the room with them and NEVER HAVE BEEN. That is a NON-ARGUMENT thing they are just PUBLIC SERVANTS but WE THE PEOPLE are their BOSS now UNIONS HAVE OUT-LIVED their usefullness YEARS ago they were needed but TODAY they are not, because we have laws to cover most of their issues therefore NOT NEEDED, but their POWER is so great with POLITITIONS Which THEY BUY with Teachers DUES, and the Unions don’t want to give up that power, that is the way it is. Get RID of useless UNIONS before we are in the same FIX as EUROPE, THEY ARE RUN BY UNIONS.
            GOD BLESS AMERICA

          • Brad

            Jovianus said:

            “As well…he makes no metion of it being a concern with any state employee or union. He wants to bust the union and take away collective bargaining rights of the American Worker”.

            Sorry Dude the governor want to end collective barginning for government employee’s get your facts strait, you are making yourself look illinformed, Dude…

          • Aix Sponsa

            Jovianus:
            1) They had jobs because no new employer would locate there and pay $20 hr…. But they had a job until the cheap foreign crap took their jobs.
            2) Figures lie and liars figure. Their called politicians.
            3) Sort of like unionized dictatorship. You have to do what the union “mob” demands.
            4) The great liberal social experiment of the 60s has finally come home to roost. No kik left behind. Graduate illiterates and make them teachers. 3rd generation idiots.
            5) It is bad. It’s called screwing the taxpayers. It’s called getting paid for incompetency and lack of integrity.

          • independant thinker

            “Sorry Dude the governor want to end collective barginning for government employee’s get your facts strait, you are making yourself look illinformed, Dude…”

            Brad, she/he/it is just doing what she condems others for along with being a master of selective statistical “proof”.

          • Jana

            Most Government employees do not have collective bargaining.
            I truly don’t care how much they make, but when the public has to pay their salaries, their health insurance and their retirement benefits, and most of the public can’t afford to pay into their own retirement pensions, nor pay for their own health insurance, then it is wrong.

        • Brad

          1. jovianus said: It’s not against the law in most states to have collective bargaining. The poorest least educated less affluent states are those which have ‘Right to Work’ laws against unions and collective bargaining.

          A. Right to Work states are protecting their workers rights against forced union dues and they tend to make more money then non-right to work states. Today there is so much federal regulation in place the unions are no longer needed.

          2. Jovianus said: As you pointed out, statsitics can be ffective when used to compare similarties. But I’ve found most Conservatives don’t compare apples to apples in their use of data , they skew them (as do most othr special interests…so one has to be careful when spouting them)

          A. Simple answer, when ever a political organization no matter left or right can ascew said statistics to make them look better, don’t just blame one yopu need to blame all.

          3. Jovianus said: The military is far different than any other “public service’. As you well know, you join the military, the US military owns you. That’s what being in the military is.

          A. No Sir, I joined the military for love of country, I signed the contract to protect and serve, the military never owned me because I served with pride and distinction. On the other hand the US gov employs over two million civilians all of which fall under union control the US military less than a million and no union. The difference unions can strike, you don’t want the military going out on strike because their union bosses want more money!

          4. Jovianus said: As you again point out, parents are the driving force behind good educational habits. Teachers can only do so much without parental help and assistance. Sadly, most parents renege on this aspect of parental responsibility.

          A. So why aren’t teachers taking the lead to ensure our kids are getting the education needed while in school, because they see what is coming to school and I agree with your statements. Sadly both parents and teachers are the root cuase, some may disagree, but we are letting the kid run the house hold instead of the parent.

          5. Jovianus said: Public employee unions do not “force’ anything…it’s a contract negotiated for. As a unit. Covers all without having unfair advantages of some over others.

          A. Forcing a person to pay dues for representation and they don’t get it (as posted by others in the past) or seeing their money get spent buying democrats campaigns for election or re-election. You sir have it so wrong and on so many different levels.

          Again what’s the answer DUDE!

          • sylviam

            First le me say THANK YOU, for your service, YOU are a HERO AND A PATRIOT, God BLess You and YOURS, now, again Thank you for setting a few mis-guided people strait on a the facts. Too many spout a bunch of hog-wash not the TRUTH, and thats a shame because if they had just told the truth it would have needed no defence. The truth will stand tall when all else falls.
            True, it is BOTH sides of the POLITICIAL realm is to blame for all this mess we are in but Heaven help us so are we for putting up with THEM. But we are AWAKE now and we do VOTE so its time we VOTED THE RIGHT WAY not the PARTY WAY.
            GOD BLESS AMERICA

          • Aix Sponsa

            I’d pay $200 per month to have my $70,000 year job back. Trouble is, the crashing economy permanently destroyed our industry. That is what bankruptcy does, and it is too late for the states and nation. Let’s see how they like it when their employer files bankruptcy and they are unemployed.

          • Jovianus

            1. jovianus said: It’s not against the law in most states to have collective bargaining. The poorest least educated less affluent states are those which have ‘Right to Work’ laws against unions and collective bargaining.

            Sparky–> . Right to Work states are protecting their workers rights against forced union dues and they tend to make more money then non-right to work states. Today there is so much federal regulation in place the unions are no longer needed.

            Reply: Lowest wages, highest poverty, largest gap between the qwealthyand the wage earners. I’d ask for proof “right to work’ states have higher wages …but I would not expect credible evidence. Here’s the facts. (Dept. of Labor Statistics) The average worker in a right to work state makes about $5,333 a year less than workers in other states ($35,500 compared with $30,167). Weekly wages are $72 greater in free-bargaining states than in right to work states ($621 versus $549). The rate of workplace deaths is 51 percent higher in states with right to work.

            2. Jovianus said: As you pointed out, statsitics can be ffective when used to compare similarties. But I’ve found most Conservatives don’t compare apples to apples in their use of data , they skew them (as do most othr special interests…so one has to be careful when spouting them)

            Sparky. Simple answer, when ever a political organization no matter left or right can ascew said statistics to make them look better, don’t just blame one yopu need to blame all.

            Reply: That’s what I said.

            3. Jovianus said: The military is far different than any other “public service’. As you well know, you join the military, the US military owns you. That’s what being in the military is.

            Sparky. No Sir, I joined the military for love of country, I signed the contract to protect and serve, the military never owned me because I served with pride and distinction. On the other hand the US gov employs over two million civilians all of which fall under union control the US military less than a million and no union. The difference unions can strike, you don’t want the military going out on strike because their union bosses want more money!

            Reply: I do’t know about you, but in Basic it was made very clear I was owned by the Army and where they decided I would go, eat, do, act etc was it. And during my stint such was clear and without question. I signed up, the military owned my as*.

            4. Jovianus said: As you again point out, parents are the driving force behind good educational habits. Teachers can only do so much without parental help and assistance. Sadly, most parents renege on this aspect of parental responsibility.

            Sparky—>. So why aren’t teachers taking the lead to ensure our kids are getting the education needed while in school, because they see what is coming to school and I agree with your statements. Sadly both parents and teachers are the root cuase, some may disagree, but we are letting the kid run the house hold instead of the parent.

            Reply: Six hour for five days is supposed to overcome lackadasical parenting? Are you for real? Actually…there is a pilot program where parents receive report cards along with the child. And preliminary data returns are indicating there is increased home supervision because no parent wants to be graded a “D’ or “F”. Yet..listening to the bozos on this board….it’s all the fault of the teacher…and none of the parent.

            BTW…the Wisconsin dispute is more than the teacher union…though the wacked Right seem to want to ignore that fact.

            5. Jovianus said: Public employee unions do not “force’ anything…it’s a contract negotiated for. As a unit. Covers all without having unfair advantages of some over others.

            Sparky—>. Forcing a person to pay dues for representation and they don’t get it (as posted by others in the past) or seeing their money get spent buying democrats campaigns for election or re-election. You sir have it so wrong and on so many different levels.

            Reply: Actually, federal law mandates all workers are represented whether they belong to the union or not. And if the shop votes union, the non union can just as well have another election to opt out of union representation. Rarely happens because of the benefits of being in a union…but it can occur. As far as donations…of the top 10 policial donors…three are unions representing the working man. 7 represent corporate interests. Seems you’d like to have no voice for the working man in elections and in the selection process….

            Again what’s the answer DUDE!

            You have them Sparky …

        • Jana

          Jovi,
          Not every state has collective bargaining. Texas doesn’t. Collective bargaining was given to them by the state of Wisconsin during negotiations. The state then should also have the authority and power to revoke it.

          • Jovianus

            Akin to a corporation can revoke dealing with a union at it’s own descretion and will? Ummm…that would be an issue for collective bargaining. An employer cannot unilaterally decree employees cannot be in a union and bargain as a collective.

            There is nothing the governor states is needed that cannot be done in agreement with the employees acting as a group. His goal is to bust the union and have giveaways to his controllers who financed his campaign.

            Even a blind man can see that.

          • Jovianus

            From that liberal bastion of reporting, the Christian Science Monitor. —>

            The Southern states have greater income disparities, receive more in federal subsidies than the tax dollars they send to Washington, and lag behind in educational achievement, especially for the poorest residents.

            “Texas, for example, has a huge debt problem, and it’s a state with no social safety net to begin with and they’re now planning to cut services for the needy more deeply,” says Norm Ornstein, a fellow with the nonpartisan American Enterprise Institute in Washington. “The great irony here is that people who are now most agitated about deficits and debt are the ones who not only want to keep $4 trillion in tax cuts, but want to have even more tax cuts.”

            Now…what was that you were saying about Texas as well as the other “right to work” (aka slave) states?

          • Jana

            Jovi
            You are so blinded to any truth. You make up your own stats, and facts half of the time.
            Sure, Texas is having problems and we are dealing with them, not as poorly as you stated though.
            What can we expect from you anyway, as you have already stated you pathetic opinion of Texas. Your input has very little value.

          • Jana

            In fact Jovi, most states are having problems. Even the union states. So lets get busy and fix the problems instead of like you want to do and spend more without any common sense!

        • eddie47d

          Brad; Nice of you to bring my name up. Collective bargaining for all for it is just a tool of engagement. It gives folks a voice in their jobs so why are you against that. If your working conditions weren’t up to par or your pay could be better wouldn’t it be nice to barter for a better deal. Instead of having to quit.Even the military should be allowed to collectively bargain but with an obvious No strike clause.

      • barbm

        special ed, hmmmm. we are required to keep people in school until they’re something like 21-yrs-old no matter what. i was a special ed teacher. i had students who had to have their hands tied to a wheelchair so they wouldn’t eat themselves and who had to wear a helmet because they’d bang their heads against the wall or anything else they could reach. if a person is not educable, why keep them in school? why let them in to begin with. those teachers who must deal with that degree of handicap are doing nothing but babysitting.

        • Jovianus

          With that attitude and outlook…I very much doubt you wre a special ed teacher.

          • barbm

            i had no problem with the students, my problem is with the law that makes us pay teachers $50,000 plus bennies to babysit. why hire an educator when they are not educable. i loved teaching the others. we learned how to take the bus, how to make meals was hard to get them to understand why no double dipping :)), how to keep themselves and their homes clean – living type things that would enable them to be independent eventually. their parents won’t be around forever, so they need that. i’m talking about people who would literally eat their own hands and arms if not restrained. and all you can do is say bad things about me? how about showing me where i’m wrong, @@@@ for brains.

          • Jovianus

            PL94-142. Know that law? How heartless to question this use of public monies to assist those who need the special attention. The goal is Mainstreaming the student. Granted, there is a significant number who can’t be Mainstreamed, but your position is…as a “former Spec. Ed teacher”, that teaching handicapped in the basics of living isn’t an education? Seriously? And how about parents of severely handicapped? They aren’t receiving an education by the Sp. ed. teacher?

            Give me a break….if you ever were a Sp. Ed teacher, it’sno wonder you are no longer. The system improved the day you left if that’s your attitude.

          • Jana

            barbm,
            Thank you for doing such a thankless job. Not only do these teachers babysit, they get to change almost adult children’s diapers.

            Jovi is a typical lefty Socialist that can’t think for himself. He has been led around by his nose too long.

          • Brad

            Jovianus,

            Maybe you should read the law first before spouting off, http://www.nd.edu/~rbarger/www7/pl94-142.html

          • barbm

            it was embarrassing at first to change diapers on men with pubic hair and erections, but it was part of the job. if they were educable, they didn’t need diapers. i know some of my students even today. one has worked at a local grocery store for years. when i’m there, i hear all the customers yelling out, “hey brent.” some are at goodwill industries where they get paid to do jobs for local businesses like measuring and bagging the spices for a local barbeque chain and boxig and sealing frito lay combo packs. they take such pride in getting those pay checks even though they’re small. they’re very slow so don’t make much hourly, but they get the job done. yes, jovi must have the most altruistic job ever since he thinks i’m selfish for not wanting my tax dollars going to babysitters under the guise of education. and, of course, i have no right to have a brain and be able to see the mistakes in our govt since i was a special ed teacher.

      • Warrior

        I didn’t realize Bill was such a Righty! Thanks for the heads up.

    • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

      what i dont understand is how they american people have let it get like this i have been long been complaining about how worthless school is in america its like the goverment hate me i have been taking to these idiots for a long time i have been punished severly ever one in big goverment hate me that means nothing to me they took my children when the child was of age she came back to me she was just like she was when they took her from me now i will do the heavy lifiting i will do what ever it takes to help her understand how to conduct her self in public and not be takin advantage today was a trying day hard lessons to learn this day has given me her undivied attention now i will show her about god

  • Richard

    Bolsheviks at their best, clenched-fist salute and all. All that is needed now is a fellow named Lenin to lead them.

    • Conservative at Birth

      Could it be Obama?

    • Ted Crawford

      They have one Richard. His name isn’t Lenin, it’s Richard Trumka! He wants us to raise the gas taxes to pay for the public sector union pensions and another “stimulus?” to hire more!
      Of course all he trully wants is, like Andy Stern, a job with this administration after he destroys the rest of the unions!

  • Jovianus

    The gig is up in Wisconsin as the good governor is discovering. A bill filled with hidden giveaways to his conributors and controllers. A bill openly allowing a scam and burdening the people of the state with a privately held monopoly on a vital need with no restrictions on charges for the necessity (electricity). A not so subtle attack against the working man. Desparate measures of locking the public out of the capital building in violation of the state constitution. Discussions and considerations of sending thugs and disruptors into peaceful demonstyrations endangering families and peaceful people…and blaming the ensuing violence on those very same peaceful demonstrators. And, to top it off….his open disdain and trivialization of working peaople by calling their concerns ‘not important”.

    Here’s the one question people should be asking…if the good governor states the public is behind him…then refer the anti union provision to the voters in a Referendum. Then have open public hearings on the remainder of the bill so the voters know what the good governor is attempting….a scam.

    • home boy

      did the public have a say when the union first came in to play or was that decission up to the politicians.? this governor should do a bush sr of read my lips there is no money and the union contracts are bleeding the state.

      • Teresa

        It is useless…we can talk till we are blue in the face…the true commies (AND YES I SAID IT)will never face reality! They JUST DON’T GET IT…WE ARE BROKE. Let me explain in Common Sense, A teacher leaves their place of employment to protest, even takes students out to protest w/them. A teacher you would think would have the most common sense of them all right? Wrong! The people are being manipulated and allowing it. Some are aware, some not. A police officer (whom does not require a high school education btw) I know my brother is one, the do require higher pay, their lives are at risk, but does this qualify them different treatment because they are in a union than someone that is not? NO. AGAIN, WE ARE BROKE. Same w/firefighters. As far as paying into their healthcare, may someone like to explain to me WHY Obama and the union bosses is SO upset that they have to pay what we do, I mean it was HIS idea that WE ALL PAY, he wants EVERYONE to have equal share in healthcare RIGHT! Now lets talk about Obama and his Union buddies who throw away all that hard earned union money on parties and parking spaces and coffee while the pool lil ole’ worker that is out there protesting goes broke along with the states and the taxpayer and the nation, do you really think THEY care about you or your rights??? TO ALL YOU FOOLS THAT FOLLOW THESE FOOLS, I WILL CONTINUE TO PRAY FOR YOU FOR YOU ARE TAKING ALL OF US DOWN WITH YOU! NOW IF YOU WOULD WAKE UP FROM YOUR SLUMBER AND REALIZE THAT THIS GAME THEY ARE PLAYING WITH YOU IS JUST THAT….A GAME AND LOOK AROUND YOU AT THE BIG PICTURE YOU MIGHT REALIZE WE MAY NOT HAVE A NATION TOO MUCH LONGER WHILE YOUR TRYING TO HOLD ON TO YOUR LIL UNION RIGHTS! GEEZZZZZEEEE But hey, long as your priorties are right!

        • Teresa
          • Teresa

            OMG I am so proud to be from Tenn. at this moment…lol

            http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_rel_tennessee_shariah_law

          • Jovianus

            Teresa…I have a good friend in Tennessee…who I called (I had other reasons forthe call but I did bring this up). He laughed so hard it ws a few minutes before he could speak. And i quote…”It’s for the religious nutcases. There are people here who really are the American version of the Taliban, except here they call themselves Baptists”.

            PS…he lives just outside of Knoxville

        • Jovianus

          Teresa..calm down and think this through…the union ceded the wages and bennies. Now, what part of that do you refuse to understand?

          • Teresa

            Are you truly that blind or just being paid to start trouble??? hmmm…or maybe you truly are purposely trying to start propaganda, either way you missed my point. I could care less if you choose to be involved in a union, what I do care about is that all these BLIND protestors do not see what they are being deliberately used for RIGHT NOW! Do you think with what is going on around us that loosing their “barging rights” is the least of our nations worries???? GET REAL! If our nations biggest worry is THE UNIONS then we truly are in trouble! Your freedom is no more soon, You rights are no more, OUR NATION is no more if we do not stand together, OUR ECONOMY is collapsing, MY GOD….LETS PLEASE CATER PIZZA IN TO THE PROTESTORS FOR THAT SHOULD BE WHAT WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT….GEEZZEEE!!!!!!!!!

          • Jana

            Theresa,
            He is blind and an agitator. He will fall in line proudly with the Communist agenda.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Jo… You are one hacked off liberal that the people of Wisconsin have elected a conservative governor. I am not happy that Obama is in office and all the crap he has pulled and continues to pull, but I don’t have a choice until the next election and you fall into that same situation. Get over it. If he is as bad as you claim, the good people of Wisconsin will vote him out the next go around. At least if your claims are actually true, he is not ruining the entire United States as what is currently happening! But, I am willing to bet that Governor Walker will be voted back in if he chooses to run again. He may decide that trying to govern Wisconsin with a bunch of cry-baby senators to babysit is not worth it. We’ll just have to wait and see!

      • Jovianus

        I have no issue with Conservative governors…as long as it’s not my state they’ve decided to run into the ground. As for Walker…he’s a scam artist who is trying to take away rights of the qworking man of America, rights which were hard won and which laid the groundwork for creating and building the most affluent society this world has ever known.

        • Mick

          Jovianus says:
          March 1, 2011 at 8:23 am
          I have no issue with Conservative governors…as long as it’s not my state they’ve decided to run into the ground. As for Walker…he’s a scam artist who is trying to take away rights of the qworking man of America, rights which were hard won and which laid the groundwork for creating and building the most affluent society this world has ever known.
          *******************************

          Jovianus…..Since when did screwing the tax payers became a right ????

          • Jovianus

            Good question. Since we’ve been raped by every “Conservative” since Reagan, perhaps you’d be so kind as to answer why you support America being run into the ground by “Conservatives” giving welfare and tax benefits to the wealthy and Big Corporate interests and making us foot the tab…

          • Brad

            Jovianus,

            Dude, you need to take a closer look at democrat states, they are further in debt then republican ran states. Isn’t California and New York in debt to the tune of approximately 60 billion dollars, go figure that one.

          • Aix Sponsa

            Stop and think. No liberal will ever understand the concept of “bankrupt”.

          • Brad

            Aix Sponsa,

            You are right, the liberal/progressive only understands how to use other peoples money.

          • eddie47d

            One sided Brad; When Walker gave those businesses those tax breaks and it didn’t pan out,isn’t that using other peoples money? Then he had the nerve to put the blame on the unions.

          • Brad

            Then eddie47d, why are California and New York approximately 60 billion dollars in debt, don’t change the subject just answer the question?

          • thinking

            Jovianus you are saying that Obama is a conservative? He gave big banks bonus for robbing us blind. No one goes to jail and he now has a bigger voting block of Unions, banks and the ignorant poor! You need to find out what a conservative is, One who is willing to pay his own way, not taking from the rich or taxpayer. One who will teach how to fish not ask the government for handouts…

          • eddie47d

            When you start answering my questions then you have a deal.

        • spitfire

          Here are a Union workers rights.

          Get paid a large amount of money, even though you have no education past the 9th grade.

          If educated or not you can be a slacker, because you cannot be fired.

          Don’t show up for work, because they can do nothing about it. You will call in sick and pay a corrupt doctor to write you a sick slip.

          You have the right to any profit the company work for makes, after all its your company not the stockholders

          You have the right to abandon your job, while you go to a rally to support the gang,thugs, you pay to belong to.

          You have the right to shut down the company you work for, so you can extort more money from that company, even though your little fiasco Strike cost the company millions.

          You have the right to STRIKE and then when the company you work for tries to hire others to do the job you refuse to do, you call them SCABS!!!!! The real scabs are you union workers. All of you.

          You have more rights than God himself.

          I will tell you UNION WORKERS THIS, you have no more rights owed to you than I or anyother human being on this planet. You have been a huge burden to the United States of America for nearly 100 Years,and now I hope your gig is up. THIS COUNTRY CAN NO LONGER AFFORD YOU!!!

          • Larry Owens

            OH no you told the Truth now every one will know how the unions and workers operate.

          • Mick

            spitfire…..
            Well done…
            It’s way pass time to put those leeches back in their places, they have plagued this country with their demands to be treated as privilege while bringing mediocrity to the work force… Back to merit we should go and end this charade for good.

          • Aix Sponsa

            WELL SAID.

          • Lastmanstanding

            spitfire, for God’s sake don’t forget seniority!!! The laziest, senior members get to stay during slowdowns because they have been there longer…they can “bump” you from your job even if they know nothing about it…or they can take advantage of the “layoff option”. By taking the “layoff” they are elegible for unemployment. But, after a few weeks they can “bump” back in to their old or any job. Thus kind of taking a “vacation” without using any vacation. the unemployment may be a little less but they still get a sizable paycheck for doing NOTHING!!! I’m going to leave it at that…

            I worked in a union shop for 7 years. My dues got me nothing. The union stewards, officials, etc. were the most worthless f–ks in the company. They need the collective because they don’t have the balls to stand up for themselves!

            I pray that the unions are CRUSHED FOREVER!!!

        • spitfire

          Jovianus you dumbass, it is the Democrats that have run the state of Wisconsin into the dirt. I’m from there, and I do know a thing or two about what has happened there, as I was born and raised there.

          What is it that you do not understand about no money to pay the budget??? Do you really believe the ignorant teachers should be allowed to abandon their jobs(our children),to cry and wine? I remember the UNI-ROYAL thing in Wisconsin. They said its all or nothing, and what they got was nothing.The company moved and and was closed.

          THe governer has the brains to know he has to do something, and it is labor that is causing some of the problems. In the end maybe the UNION SCABS will get their way and no law will be passed. However I will have the last laugh on that one, because they will be getting laid off, and have 0 job.

          NO matter if every single human that lives in the UNITED STATES wants Unions, America simply can no longer afford YOU. Get a job, the best you can get, get a life, and shut the F up.

          • eddie47d

            When unions and corporations get greedy it does effect everyone. That is why businesses need collective bargaining so we all know what they are up too. The government should also have good negotiators to keep costs down.The taxpayer does have a say through these negotiators/arbitrators and their voice should be heard. Walker is right in tackling the debt issue but is wrong in how he is going about doing it.He blew it when he choose one side over the other and still fails to acknowledge that.

          • thinking

            eddie47, you must be union! The union is run just like the mafia. The leaders extort money from the rank and file and take trips all over the country and say it is business. Check out Greece, they are a union country that will soon be bankrupt. Extortion is not nor will it ever continue to work. It will collapse under its own weight and take down everything it touches. Which states will survive? the right to work states, does that tell you anything? Strong union, no jobs. By the way watch for GM to move most of its factories to China…

          • Dan az

            Eddie
            I see what you mean with these kind of numbers some one got screwed!
            Using a figure of $100,005 for average teacher compensation in MPS and an average yearly workload of 195 days, these teachers cost approximately $513 per day in salary and benefits to employ. Spread over 5,960.3 full-time licensed teachers in the district, this adds up to $3,057,634 in daily expenses.

            The average teacher’s total compensation in Madison is $74,912, according to the Department of Public Instruction. Each day costs $384.16 per teacher. The district has 2,370 teachers.

            These figures don’t include administrators and support staff, many of which got an unexpected paid days off thanks to the week’s protests.
            And by the way the teachers are still getting paid while not working and the cost just for three days will cost the tax payers 6 million and counting.If you dont believe me check it out.If the teachers have a doctors note they get paid!

    • Ted Crawford

      Yet another Alinsky rant from jovianus! Full of supposition, half-truths and rhetoric. We have to admitt however that he babbles well, just like his hero Obama, and with the same degree of factual information!

      • Jovianus

        Ted…in my post, what is it you state is untruthful?

        • Bob

          Better yet, Happy An*s, what was truthful? As a liberal, you are automatically a liar, therefore it is up to you to convince us that you are telling the truth (which is unlikely since we all know that liberals hate the truth).

          • Jovianus

            1. You obviously don’t know your history. In any event Bob…it’s well known on this board your IQ and analytical abilities wouldnt even make a decent earthquake measurement…so why bother wasting everyones time?

          • independant thinker

            Jova I have never read one of your posts where you provided any proof at all for any of your “facts” “statistics” or anything else. you provide no sources at all.

        • bohemian

          The part after “The gig is up…”

          • Carlucci

            I believe the correct saying is “the jig is up”.

            Hopefully one day all of the unions in this nation will disappear. What was once a good idea is now totally outmoded and relentlessly corrupt, and has been for years. Unions cannot be sustained any longer because they have helped to ruin the economy of this country.

            This whole Wisconsin teacher union thing reminds me of the Charley Sheen mini-drama currently playing out. Spoiled petulance and weird behavior is getting plenty of attention and air play on the lame stream networks. However, there is talk already about replacing Mr. Sheen, and you can bet that the new replacement will not be paid $1.6 million per episode. The same thing should go down with those “teachers” in Wisconsin. It all goes back to the old saying that nobody is indispensable.

          • bohemian

            Carlucci – yep, that’s the saying; so as not to confuse the guy, I typed it just as he did …
            Agreed that the unions are out of control. My boys tell me about their teachers (middle school, f/k/a Jr. High, and High School) that give class assignments and then talk on their cell phones for the rest of the period, or B.S. and flirt with other teachers. This goes on all the time.
            Plus, my kids have half-days quite often due to ‘teacher conferences’ (not parent-teacher) and various other reasons. Why can’t teachers have their meetings at night? In the real world, folks with real jobs quite often work well after their ‘regular’ work hours, including weekends.
            If they won’t concede on the union matter, then there needs to be competition; let me take the school portion of my real estate taxes and use it on a school of my choice. These public schools would have no enrollment. Their attitude comes right from the top – take a look at the NEA General Counsel here, admitting that they don’t give a damn about the schools or the children »
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piPkgAUo0w

          • Carlucci

            Dear Bohemian (and I really dig your name, BTW),

            I agree 100%. That way parents can choose to home school, or send their kids to private schools. I never had children and cannot understand why I have to pay school tax to “educate” other people’s kids, especially when the product that is turned out is so abysmal.

            Speaking of that, check out this link. These are the kinds of morons that the public schools are churning out by the thousands:

            (Note what is said about the noodle restaurants about three and a half minutes into the video).

            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/young-madison-socialist-reveals-popular-noodles-company-restaurant-is-actually-harsh-dictatorship/

          • Carlucci

            Bohemian – I just watched that video you sent on the NEA. There it is in a nutshell – exactly what is wrong with the public school system. The thing about them is that everything is about THEM. And the speaker has the nerve to say that they care so much about “the children”. What a crock.

            I think I’m gonna go puke………

        • louie

          Jovianus, take the first 4 letters off your name & that will describe you perfectly…ha, ha, ha! Everything you have said is a lie…anus!!!

        • Aix Sponsa

          When you can not defend with facts. Ad hominem attack. It is the liberal way.

    • Bob

      Happy an*s: I think that the last four letters of your screen name describe you and your fellow liberals to a “T”. Liberals are the very lowest form of life and what comes out of them is the same as what comes out an an*s. Why don’t you go back to AOL & the Skankington Post where your drivel will will be seen as great wisdom?

    • BUD

      WHY DOESN’T THE GOVERNOR LET THE UNION DECIDE. EITHER PAY UP FOR YOUR BENEFITS, OR CUT THE NUMBERS OF YOUR UNION MEMBERSHIP. THE GOVERNOR CAN DECIDE HOW MANY TO LAY OFF, TO SAVE ENOUGH TO PAY YOUR BENEFITS. THE REST OF THE COUNTRIES TAX PAYERS HAVE TO PAY LARGE SUMS TOWARD THEIR OWN BENEFITS AND HIGHER CO-PAYS ON MEDS AND SERVICES. TIME FOR YOU PAMPERED UNIONIZED WIMPS IN WISC TO PAY YOUR OWN WAY. NO MORE FREE RIDES. GROW UP AND GET OVER IT.

      • BUD

        THIS IS THE AMERICA PROVIDED BY OBAMA. IF HE GETS ANOTHER 4 YEARS, YOU “WILL” BE DIGGING DEEPER INTO YOUR OWN POCKET TO PAY FOR IT ALL. AND YOU THINK THINGS ARE BAD NOW. OBAMA IN A 2ND TERM WILL REALLY RUIN YOUR WAY OF LIFE.

      • Jovianus

        Errr…Bud. Hate to be the one to break the news, but the union agreed to take the cuts in bennies from the beginning. It’s the good governor who is demanding more than what he stated was acceptable…he wantsw to take away right to bargain as a group. Not only that, but take them from a select set of unions and not the whole state public employees union structure.

      • spitfire

        Because we hired and voted ourselves a governor and we would like him to do just that, Govern, not the Unions.

    • Larry Owens

      why don’t you go to the state house and help clean up the MESS you and your teacher & union thugs have made.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Virginia

      Jovianus, I think you are an Obama hack. Sent to this blog to spread your propoganda. Get used to it, THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN AND ARE TAKING OUR COUNTRY BACK! The people of wisconsin are not the ones creating havoc in their state. Obama, Soros and Trumpka are behind it. AND DON’T FORGET ACORN, they have organized via e-net, all of their paid hate filled demonstrators to organize in every state to shout down, and attack, the will of the people. Those teachers, NOT TEACHING, need to have their pay docked! YOU ARE PAID TO TEACH NOT DEMONSTRATE. AMERICA-don’T BE SIDE TRACKED BY THE jovianus’ of the world. WE have work to do. GET INVOLVED! LOOK UP IMPEACHMENT ON LINE – SIGN IT! If you can afford it, donate to organizations committed to getting America back to her founding roots. Heritage Foundation is one. There are many things we can do. Research, BEFORE OBAMA SHUTS DOWN THE INTERNET! He’s just waiting for the day he can, unless we can stop him! WE can’t afford to wait until elections in 2012. TO MUCH DAMAGE HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE! The best solution would be to prove Obama is NOT a U.S. citizen. Then everything he has done could be nullified. Some things NOT so easy! TO THOSE LIBERALS THAT CAN STILL THINK FOR YOURSELVES – THE STATES ARE BROKE! WE THE PEOPLE HAVE NO MORE MONEY TO GIVE. GET IT! GOV. WALKER GET’S IT!

  • http://None J.B. Williams

    I would be more impressed if those AWOL Democrats would return and take a stand for whatever it is that they believe. They were elected to represent the people of their districts. Being AWOL doesn’t impress me at all that they were the right people for representation.
    Union busting has gone on since unions first formed. Even that old Republican Saint Ronald Reagan tried it with the air traffic controlers when American Air Lines took away their employees retirement benefits. It is affectionately called tit for tat.

    • http://brchoate@earthlink.com Brenda Choate

      When you allow any public employee to walk off their jobs because of additional benefits or perks the society as a whole suffers. The Air Traffic Controllers were charged with the safety of the public. That strike endangered everyone on an aircraft as well as the crash site. The teachers who walk out on the jobs should be fired not rewarded. This applies to all sectors of “Public” employees.

  • Charles

    Heartbroken. Please tell me that nations who want America to fall, are not watching this and sending trublemaking mercenaries through our weakened borders to join in on all that is going on. If we are not thankful and careful, we will loose it all.

  • Ted Crawford

    Food for thought Charles! When I hear people talking about the changes to be made in 2012, I wonder if they are aware that if we don’t stop this left wing progressive assault long before then, 2012 will not matter!

  • bob wire

    So we know what concession Walker is asking for but we don’t know what he bought with 140 million dollars worth of Tax concessions that helped create this short fall.

    Does anyone beside me feel they are being denied facts to form an intelligent opinion?

    Was he promised a new factory or industry that would employ thousands of workers? Is this proposal documented on paper somewhere?

    Was he promised VIP seating at the Chamber of Commerce Christmas Ball?

    Was he promised Campaign funding?

    I have yet to hear anything on this matter.

    • Jovianus

      Bob;

      Asking if some of these folks want to know facts is a waste of writing time. They want nothing to do with facts or reality. They live in another world unbeholden to facts, solutions, or analysis. Heck…I’d bet most don’t know Reagan, their darling golden haired god, raised taxes six of his eight years in office and caused state and local taxes to go up creating a huge increase in overall taxation of the Middle Class…while giving away billions to the wealthy and Big Corporate interests.

      They can’t use or believe facts … those pesky things ruin a good rant y’know

    • Anti Government

      Bob,
      The “right” always wants to pit the lower class against the middle class and at the same time they are planing to have more give away to their corporate overlords. Walkers plan is not just the public unions he has legislation ready for the summer to repeal the prevailing wage laws in Wisconsin effectively eliminating private unions.

      Walkers bill is filled with big Corporate give aways at the expense of the the Wisconsin tax payers. This governor who was kicked out of college for cheating has not forgotten his roots. “On Wisconsin!” Walkers time is limited!

      • Bob

        Happy an*s and antireason; you are both nothing but liberal parrots full of the same old canards of the leftist legacy of lying. It is the left that pits one class against another by trying to convince the parasites of the unions and the welfare ranks that they deserve what others have for merely existing rather than working for it. You also hide the fact that it is the liberals who control most of the wealth in the USA and who are the stingiest in spreading that wealth among the poor. Liberals want wealth without work and want to build a new “elite” of tax sucking parasites and celebrity degenerates.

        • Jovianus

          Got yourself some good drugs this morning eh Bob?

          • Bob

            Gee, really snappy reply, a fitting comeback for someone of your obvious wit and wisdom. How about just addressing the issues with some truth? Never mind, the truth is not in you nor is it in any liberal.

        • sylviam

          Class war-fare is the newest thing that the LIBERALS are trying to get started, but first it was a *RAce* WAR, THAT DIDN’T WORK EITHER.
          Why don’t they just give up on that because THEY ARE THE RACIST AND THEY ARE GETTING NO WHERE WITH CLASS either, ACTUALLY they do NOT have any CLASS at all. GUESS they will just have to make do with THeir UNION BUDDIES. Liberals, YOU can have your UNIONS just keep them to YOURSELF.
          GOD BLESS AMERICA

          • 45caliber

            What is sad that, in the North, if you want to work without having to pay union dues you either have to get into management or move out of state. I think that is one reason the North is so Democratic; the conservatives move somewhere else so they can get a job without paying someone for the privilege of working.

    • bob wire

      Okay, it’s 7.36 PM CST and I’m just dragging in, ~ and to my disappointment no one (all day) has bothered to offered what Gov. Walker bought with these 140 million dollar Tax concession to business.

      Why was it? What did he buy? Seems we don’t know? Hell he might have bought a 20,000 strong army of black opts w/toys included! or maybe a bullet train!

      Well, I’m going to the kitchen and find something to eat, create and submit 4 invoices for payment, catch up on breaking news, read my mail, wash up for bed and before lights out I’m going to look for the answers to my question.

      What have you’ll done all day? I gave you something to work with, something to defend your Governorship and you have gave me nothing.

  • Raggs

    The 14 democommunist and all of the teachers need thier walking papers!… These people have NO shame, NO morals and NO intelligence.

    • 45caliber

      I agree.

  • Anti Government

    Walker won the election by 43,000 votes (2%). He was supported by a number of unions that have since recanted their support. Walker is implementing policies that he never ran on. Had he run on the policies he is trying to implement he would never have won. The budget repair bill he is pushing has no-bid sales of State heating and power plants in the bill. This governor will be recalled at minimum or removed on corruption charges at worst. Recall numbers have exceeded the number that is needed to recall this governor, so Walkers days are numbered. His recall will coincide with the 2012 Presidential elections. This will insure a big turn out in Wisconsin and when there is a big turn out in Wisconsin Democrats win.

    • steve

      Wow. So you’re saying Walker took a page from Obama’s book? He LIED to get elected?

      What a bad,bad,boy. Should he be impeached? Is he a citizen of Kenya?

      • 45caliber

        He’s not a citizen of Kenya so it should be okay to impeach him. Only citizens of Kenya are above that.

  • Robert L Wiltfong

    It is time that government workers lost some of the over paid perks.It just hasn`t gone far enouph.All elected officals should be made to pay there own insursnce and there way back and forth to work.A selery cot of upto 40% should bring them back in line with the publice.

  • Robert L Wiltfong

    It is time that government workers lost some of the over paid perks.It just hasn`t gone far enouph.All elected officals should be made to pay there own insursnce and there way back and forth to work.A Celery cut of upto 40% should bring them back in line with the publice.

  • Larry Owens

    here is a little tidbit of politics and union plundering: But it just did not work, Nice try but no cigar!

    The American Thinker points out that, thanks to the refusal of the Wisconsin Democratic party to admit that last November’s elections mattered, a deadline for reducing the debt servicing load of the state of Wisconsin by $165,000,000 expires today.

    The money was to help pay a court case settlement involving a $200,000,000 raid on the Injured Patients and Families Compensation Fund in 2007 by the previous Governor Doyle (Democrat) administration; the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled that using the fund to balance the budget was unconstitutional, which means that the state has to pay it back. It also means that without this provision in place, the state is not going to have the opportunity to get even a little out from under its 43 billion dollar debt.

    $165,000,000 divided 14 ways works out to just over $14.78 million per AWOL state Senator: personally, I say that they should have their paychecks garnished for it. Forever. And then send the remainder of the bill to the Wisconsin Democratic party, since they’re so happy to spend other people’s money on their own petulant political gestures…

  • steve

    Count your blessings,my friends. If the teachers are out on strike, they aren’t poisoning your children’s minds with government propaganda.

    It’s quite analagous to gubmint shutting down to to lack of a budget. The worst that can happen would be NOTHING – which would be a tremendous improvement over passing more legislation.

    • 45caliber

      I think that is the reason many of the conservatives are saying to Washington, “Cut expenses or shut down!”

      To be honest, just what would be the affects of the Feds shutting down? They wouldn’t have IRS agents calling you. They would shut down the national parks, which would probably annoy more foreigners than Americans, all the government buildings would be closed, it might delay some federal court decisions. It would definately put a stop to new give-away bills. The real problem would almost certainly be that the Congress would pay everyone for their time off, which means we wouldn’t save anything from it while they had a nice vacation.

  • bob wire

    By chance , did anyone notice the house that the police were at in their attempt to round up these delegates a few days ago?

    No disrespect intended to anyone, as I live in a humble house myself.

    But this particular homes was a pier and beam on grade, single floor stick house with ship lapped exterior siding of about 45-55 years of age with a front porch entry slab of maybe 4′X4′ with a $62.00 dollar screen door front entry. ~ And this is the home of a State Senator? ~

    Well, all I can say, ~ is I don’t see any over abundance of wealth in the State of Wisconsin. This house looked, while dated well maintained and very much like something that I live in on a thrifty $30,000 per year income.

    This makes me somewhat curious what the Governor might have lived in before he moved into the Governor’s mansion.

    This is a class war, ~ Much like George Bush said it so well in his welcoming addressing to some of his “dye in the wool” supporters.

    “It’s good to be with the “haves and have mores”

    Gotta go, ~ you all enjoy yourselves , and fight the good fight.

  • Tom DeVries

    Why is no one aking who is paying for the (Retreat) for the Senators to stay (hide) at. Could the Unions be behind that. Follow the money.

    • bob wire

      Hmm? ~I suppose, no one is counting square sheets of toilet paper used per wipe and maybe think on a larger scale.

  • Mick

    Jovianus says:
    March 1, 2011 at 9:12 am
    Good question. Since we’ve been raped by every “Conservative” since Reagan, perhaps you’d be so kind as to answer why you support America being run into the ground by “Conservatives” giving welfare and tax benefits to the wealthy and Big Corporate interests and making us foot the tab…

    *************************************************
    Jovianus,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Give us an example on how exactly you personally got rape as you call it ????
    During the Reagan years the dollar was at its height, Quaddafi was sent back to his hole within three days and the Airlines still managed to fly after he fired 11,000 Air traffic controllers , Reagan had the balls to take on the leeches out to shut down, the bastards took an oath and it reads as such.
    (
    The solemn oath taken by each of these employees, a sworn affidavit, when they accepted their jobs: “I am not participating in any strike against the Government of the United States or any agency thereof, and I will not so participate while an employee of the Government of the United States or any agency thereof.”

  • Brad

    I’m proud to bring forward a post from yesterday that outlines the future liabilities these so called unions have collectively barginned for.

    Dan az says:
    February 28, 2011 at 3:26 pm
    States face $3 trillion in unfunded public pension obligations

    A study released by the National Center for Policy Analysis reveals that the crisis in unfunded liabilities in state and local government public employee retirement funds may amount to $3 trillion, not the $2 trillion previously estimated.

    The National Center for Policy Analysis examined discount rates used in calculating how state and local government pension plans are determined, concluding that liabilities may be 75 – 86 percent higher than reported.

    The significance of that finding: “As a result, taxpayers’ role as insurer may be much greater than anticipated.”

    The group analyzed 153 state and local pension plans, representing more than 85 percent of liabilities for state and local government pensions and other benefits, recalculating their liabilities using a lower discount rate.

    The conclusions:

    * Unfunded pension liabilities are approximately $3.5 trillion, compared to the reported amount of $493 billion.

    * Unfunded liabilities for health and other benefits are $558 billion, compared to the reported $537 billion.

    * Thus, total unfunded liabilities for all benefit plans are estimated at $3.1 trillion – nearly three times higher than the plans reported.

    To put these liabilities in context, the National Center for Policy Analysis pointed out that unfunded obligations under pension and other plans amounted to 7.1 percent of gross domestic product, or GDP, in 2008.

    When adjusted using a “more appropriate” discount rate, the states’ unfunded obligations were 22 percent of U.S. GDP.

    Further, all but 10 states and the District of Columbia have total adjusted unfunded liabilities above 15 percent of their state GDP, while four states – Alaska, Hawaii, New Jersey and Ohio – have adjusted unfunded liabilities above 35 percent of their state GDP.

    • 45caliber

      Good facts – but do you think that the libs here care?

      • Brad

        Nope

      • Brad

        When liberals/progressives read the facts they will tend to ascew the facts or try to change the subject to prevent talking about it.

        • bob wire

          “States face $3 trillion in unfunded public pension obligations”

          are you sure? ~ that a hell of a lot of money. if it’s so, I’d think someone would have used it as a hammer already.

          Thanks, for offering it ~ something else to look into.

          can I quote you on this 3 trillion?

  • Jack B

    The good news out of Wisconsin is that public school students’ test scores skyrocketed last week, mystifying educators. The bad news is many student-teacher love affairs were hard-hit without access to janitors’ closets and locker rooms.

    From Jackie B on line

    • 45caliber

      Hey, you can’t say all the teacher/student love affairs went away now – many of the teachers took the students with them to stand in lines.

      • Jack B

        Yes, you are so right on that one

  • Ace Sez

    Unions are operated on an extortionist agenda–”give us what we want or we’ll shut you down”—Extortion is against the law but so many judges have been bought off by union members dues–you’d never get an honest judgement in any court as to the crime of extortion

    Gov. Walker is headed in the right direction and lets hope he succeeds so that other jurisdiction can follow his lead successfully !!

    • 45caliber

      They use the same extorsion tactics as the Mob or the Syndicate or the Mafia – who helped set up many of the original unions. “Pay us or something might happen to your business.”

      The only real difference is that the criminal groups got their money from the business owners. The unions get their money from all the workers. And, to insure it, they force all the workers to join their union if they plan to work at all wherever they are allowed to do it.

      Luckily, I live in a “right to work” state. It is too bad that all of us don’t.

  • 45caliber

    I don’t much like Gov. Rick Perry (R – TX), but he made a statement that I thought interesting. He stated that all Republican governors are backing Walker. “Got his back” is the way he put it.

    • sylviam

      I am replying to both posts, first one— It looks and sounds like Mafia extortion because it is, the Mafia didn’t go away they just put on a suit and *ran for offices like, CONGRESSMEN, AND SENATORS* thats why the UNIONS are so BRAZEN with their extortion. Their BED BUDDIES are in OFFICE. Thats where the UNIONS are too, EUROPE is US in the near future.
      Second one I don’t know Rick Perry because I live in VA. but I do like the fact that the other GOV. have Walkers BACKBLESS them for that.
      GOD BLESS AMERICA

  • Bill Runge

    There is a white elephant in the room that no one seems to notice. At a certain point the landscape will become so toxic that no one wants the job. We have two kids that are teachers. Graduates of Ball State in Muncie, IN. One has a masters degree in Education Administration but has chosen to stay in the class room. They are ultra conservatives and pretty much dislike all things liberal. They have been teaching for 15 years are considered highly effective. They are presently considering other career options and I doubt that they will sign another contract to teach. We have another son that is a
    graduate of Rice University in Houston,Tx. He just finished up a program called “transition to teaching.” He has finished his student teaching and has passed his state exams and paid for his license. he has decided not pursue a career in education….They all still have student loan obligations because the state of IN requires that teachers pursue higher degrees within certain yearly time frames. The kids with the 15 years of experience say they are not the only ones planning on leaving..many of their colleagues are doing likewise.
    At present there are 29 Charter Schools sanctioned by Ball State University in the state of IN. At present 23 are on the list of under-performing schools.

  • barbm

    here in texas, we have a huge deficit as well. most states do. that’s why there is a tea party. obama was God’s greatest gift to america. he woke us from the slumber we’ve been in since the viet nam war and women’s lib. it’s those old hippies who are the biggest supporters of the tea party. we know how to protest – by informing the populace and getting them out to vote, not by leaving our jobs to picket. if you hate what walker is doing, you’re gonna just vomit in 2012 when we get rid of more dems and more rinos. if not now, when do we stop the bleeding? we can do it a little bit at a time and suffer the whole way, or we can rip that bandaid off fast and painfully so we can get back to “normal.” normal will never again mean running our country into the ground with over-inflated budgets. on the bright side, i found out yesterday that san antonio has a balanced budget and always has. not bad for a nearly voluntary mayor and city council. i guess they could strike and get more pay. NOT – we’re a right to work state. yahoo. tea, anyone?

    • 45caliber

      That’s why I live here too. And I hope sooner or later that those in Austin get the idea and see about balancing the budget. If not – well, there is next election…

      • bob wire

        “Perry says he cut the business tax

        Gov. Perry talks about the business tax

        A “he said, she said” exchange between U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison and Gov. Rick Perry during the Jan. 14 gubernatorial debate may have left Texans scratching their heads.

        When the senator accused Perry of raising taxes on businesses, one of the things she pointed to was legislation that the governor signed in 2006 restructuring the state’s franchise tax on businesses.

        Perry responded several times by saying that “we lowered the business tax from 4 percent down to 1 percent.”

        http://politifact.com/texas/statements/2010/jan/22/rick-perry/perry-says-he-cut-business-tax/

        Well 45, ~ what you think about considering where we are in Texas today?

        It kind of sound like Walkers plan doesn’t it?

    • Carlucci

      And the last time I was in San Antonio, I saw a billboard protesting
      putting fluoride in the public water supply.

      P.S. The River Walk is awesome, especially at Christmas.

      • barbm

        they’ve been trying to get the flouride out for decades!! the river walk is awesome. i get down there every now and then – usually when one of my sons’ bands play down there. both are in college now, so not much time for music these days.

  • chuckb

    progressives like jovianus can’t make it in this world unless they have a union to protect their job. that’s our problem with the teachers, the unions have the final say on the level of certification for a teacher, that’s why the students and most teachers are below par. the teachers are raised in this same system, so you can’t expect them to be any better. of course this doesn’t apply to all teachers only the majority.
    the teachers union has the politicians in their pocket, that’s why they can’t enforce higher certification tests.
    walker only wants to take away part of the collective bargaining, they will retain the right to negotiate basic wages. i think he should eliminate collective bargaining altogether and get the schools out of the control of the union and so do most of the teachers i know.

    you are seeing communism at it’s best, if the state lose’s this fight you might as well hang the hammer and sickle out your window.

    let these state workers earn their living at the same level as all the citizens. let people who are worthy excel by their own productivity, let the states set higher standards to certify teachers, not to be sidelined by people of lesser ability due to union rules and carry a union card.

    • 45caliber

      There was a teacher in Chicago years ago who quit and started up a private school that would take ONLY students who were flunking out of public school. They had 98% of their graduates going to college and making straight “A”s.

      She was offered the superintendent ship of Los Angeles, New York, and several other large towns. She turned them all down. She stated that the ONLY school she would take that job for was Chicago. But she also said that she would be offered it because her first step would be to fire about 55% of the teachers due to incompitancy. They were there simply to coast until retirement and had no interest in teaching the kids.

      I know one teacher (she was in high school with me) that decided when she was practice teaching that she hated kids. Even having one of her own didn’t change things – it only made it worse. She literally had almost no contact with her son until he was well into his teens. She still teaches (unless she retired in the last couple of years). How would you like to have your child in her class?

      What I’m afraid of is that most school districts have similar problems.

      • Carlucci

        I think many people get into teaching because they want all of the time off they get. I had a “math teacher” in junior high who “lectured” for ten minutes and then sat around for the rest of the class picking his nose in front of everyone. He didn’t even have the courtesy to do that in the bathroom, and never used a tissue. This went on EVERY SCHOOL DAY. He was a P-I-G pig = !! Everyone called him “Bozo” because he looked like Bozo the Clown. When the bell rang at 3:00, you could see him running to his car as fast as he could and he would drive out of the teacher’s parking lot like a bat out of hell. Yep, he would have fit in perfectly in Wisconsin.

  • Polski

    The Republicans and the governor of Wisconsin are LIARS!! The insurance of the government employees is 100% funded by the EMPLOYEES. It’s a deferred plan which is covered as a group and NOTHING IS PAID FOR BY THE TAXPAYERS!!

    The Republicans are simply UNION BUSTING, if they can get away with it, because then the NORMAL people will have no protection from the Governor, and the other high-falutin’ bureaucrats who want to control everybody and steal more money for themselves. They really liked what Dubya and Cheney did to the middle class. This is just another aspect of AIG, FANNY MAE, ENRON, TYCO, etc.

    SHAME ON YOU!!!!!

    • 45caliber

      Now that is really interesting – considering that there are any number of Wisconsin people who have posted who say the opposite. How does it work? And why are the teachers so upset about having to pay 5-6% of it now? Where is the money coming from that does pay it? What about the other state employees? How is their insurance paid?

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    I watched the news on TV the other night. We also see protests even here in New York for the crooked teachers’ union in Wisconsin. I observed at least one protestor suggesting the GOP is like bedbugs sucking the blood out of workers. I have about as much respect for this protestor as I have for the moocher in BHO’s Fort Myers audience who bragged about the joy of not having to pay for gas or her mortgage. Perhaps the most ironic thing is that we already know who the real bedbugs or parasites are – the drones, moochers and freeloaders I mentioned above. They’re content to take the fruits of labor from other people at all income levels!! Well, to all the drones and moochers, let’s just say: “We’re sorry, but we can’t afford to support you people any more. “Spreading the wealth may sound like a good idea….until you run out of someone else’s money!! This country is going broke because it has supported deadbeats for too long!!!!

    Also, we see the democraps are running away to avoid votes?? Wouldn’t it be great if all drones and naïve democrap voters did likewise – just went away every election day and did not vote at all!! Of course, if the majority of us are moderate to conservative, this should be a vital message – we all need to get to the polls in every election, and vote against the leftwing socialist democraps!! Perhaps there should be special recall elections to replace the democraps who are AWOL in Illinois. Why not?? What if they worked in the private sector?? E.g., not long ago I worked for a large retailer. If you were a no show/no call for 3 consecutive scheduled days, they would assume you resigned. At that point, you could only go back to pick up your final pay check. It would be great if the voters of these states could treat these travelling democraps in the same way. After 3 days, they should just have special elections to replace the AWOL politicians, and hopefully replace them with a party other than the socialist democrap party!!

  • http://com i41

    Earl, you have the cross hairs dead on. Keep on firing facts at the soros socialists democrats. When I started country school in the early 60 my teacherswere not in any union but i knew they were socialist democrats on their slobbering over, JFK and FDR. Every day it was a slobbering love affair for all Kennedys When my folks asked what I learned in Social Studies and government issues, the subject came out aboutthe Kennedys and their behavior. Wehn I went to school the next day the facts always got the teacher irratitated over facts and when she started going off of what a wonder FDR was my folks and grandparents usually stress what a wanna be dictator he was as well as a thug and a whorehound. At the end of my school year my folks and grandparents went nad had a discussion with her slanted veiws of what government really did and where socialism was coming into America and is would be another germany if things didn’t change, since my grandparents had left Germany in the teens. My kids and grandkids are pretty well versed in facts what democrats have always stood for.

  • Tinman

    FREEDOM means being in fear for your LIFE and LOVING IT!

    • bob wire

      You screw with the bull, expect the horn. ~ Dig up Bobby Kennedy and ask him what he would do differently.

      I know that’s very much over the top and forgive me for being so crass and direct.

      But as I have always thought, this Tea Party movement is no more in touch with the American people then the GOP is.

      This Wisconsin power play by your chosen one is something that you can expect to carry to 2012 and you are not going to be pleased with the out come.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Claire,
    Glad to see you back. I don`t have much to say. I think pretty
    much, everything has been said by the folks. I like what you have had to say.

  • ’53 Korean Vet

    “When the Well Runs Dry–It doesn’t matter if you’re a Republican or a
    Democrat!”(I hope your Unions get buried under 500 Billion Tons of “Worthless Money”-!) “You can’t drink Paper Money either-!” (If it hasn’t any value–you lost everything-!) Before World War I, the
    “German Mark” was worth 50 cents to the U.S. Dollar-! After Germany
    lost the War–the German Govt. was printing 100,000 ‘Mark-Notes’, but it ‘took’ a “Wheel-barrow” load of these to “Buy one pair of Shoes-!
    Once–the economy was that bad, they’d lead a “Pig” on a rope, & trade
    him for what they wanted to buy-! The wheel-barrow became a handicap,
    so they’d gone-back to “Barter-Trade” for a better way, & was easier than counting “All of those Worthless-Notes-!” If your money won’t float–go “Buy a Pig”-! Place a millionaire on a Desert-Island with a
    1 million dollars in a suitcase–(He’s poorer than a Beggar in the
    city)-! Because the Beggar can still “beg” enough to eat–but our
    “Millionaire” can’t eat that money-and will starve in-about 2 weeks-!
    –Lesson #1, “Money is a medium of Exchange, Only-!” It’s not a “Horn
    of Plenty” Table with Food-! (Also, It’s not true wealth-!) It’s what
    you can “Use”–not what you can “Abuse”-!

  • Lisa

    MY post is about the teacher aspect of it.

    I know there are plenty of great teachers out there and they deserved to be paid a fair wage. But our family has to pay for our insurance, retirement etc and we do not get an entire summer off.and I think given the current state of things maybe they should consider that. Most Americans are just happy to have a job right now.

    I do not feel warm and fuzzy about teachers raises right now,especially after the experiences I had as a mom.

    I have two kids ages 14 and 10. Now my oldest daughter when she was in 3rd grade could not read and do basic math. The school told me THIS WAS OK? No she was not mentally handicapped. the school had her on an IEP(Individual education program) part of that was READING THE MATERIAL TO HER (versus teaching her to read)and just kept pushing her to the next grade despite all my protests. We spent $30,000 in tutoring during weekends and summers. my poor kid spent what seemed like 24×7 in some sort of school. Then in fifth grade after much frustration I finally tested her with home school materials myself and was flabbergasted to learn she could barely grasp the requirements of a third grade level, yet the teachers kept passing her. So I had to do the most frustrating,expensive scary thing I ever did in my life

    I pulled my child just my oldest,out of public school. For seven months I home schooled her myself, we had 10 hour school days 5-6 days a week. now I had no teaching experience,and I am pretty sure I would be nominated the worse teacher on the planet. But by the time I was done with her, I gave her another test, she tested at nearly a fifth grade level.

    Now during the entire time I home schooled her I got harassed by the public school,got nasty letters, curious phone calls etc etc.

    when I re enrolled her back into public school the following year I demanded they hold her back again(so she could repeat 5th grade a second time) They protested and tried to give me all this data on how bad it was. But I made them do it any way. Now she is a smart gifted 7th grader at the head of her class.

    What did I do different?

    I found fun ways to engage her, I refused to allow her to give up because it was too hard and I did not simply pass her because it was convenient. and, guess what there were no endless assemblies on fundraisers eating up our class time.

    Now I am not saying all teachers pass kids through because its easy, But I am saying that is what happened to my first kid. Now with my second I began working with her right away,and she wont suffer the way her older sister did.

    my point is,pay should be based on performance.

    and the no child left behind act is A JOKE! There needs to be clarification versus,a sliding scale to allow kids to be passed onto the next grade whether they can do the grade level appropriate material or not.

    I know this will tick many teachers off, but public education has become more of a corporation then a way to get an education. If I, a mom with no teaching experience,and at the time college education can sit with my child and get her up to level, I just want to know why the school system ( who supposedly knows more than I do and harassed me the whole time I home schooled and put me down for my choice when I brought her back) supposedly can’t do what I did. And the funny thing is….Aren’t they the experts?

    And I didn’t use fancy materials, just text books ,education videos from the library and I tricked her into reading by finding a movie she wanted to watch and telling her she had to read the book first.
    That is all I did.(which by the way was twilight)

    so I look at the sit ins in Wisconsin and really don’t feel all that sad. Maybe if the school system was a bit better it might evoke a bit more feeling in me but in my experience its all about the money and not really about the kids.

  • Lisa

    oh and one more thing…..

    with my youngest child, I started to work with her shortly after I pulled my oldest out. I tried to get her extra help at school and I demanded they amend her IEP and teach her to read versus just reading all the info to her. The teachers tried to tell me that they only have so many hours in a day and that trying to force her to read would be to stress ful for my child (LOL)

    I finally had to call an ARC advocate(and for those of you who have never heard of that that is an advocate for kids or persons with dissabilities) and my advocate who was a retired attorney had to sit with me in every IEP and school meeting until a resolution was finally found in my youngest daughters sitaution(so they would finally help me teach her to read)

    Now I am known as “THAT PARENT” or fondly just “HER”

    so how do I have to suppliment, I buy phonics books and tutor my kids myself when they come home from school. And if I didn’t have to go to school and work for a living i would just home school them both.

    Education is changing into something awful and greedy in this country.
    The main concentration is “how much can the teacher get” versus how much do they deserve for the “success of their work”

    If you and I go to work we only get raises for doing well, and those raises could be maybe 50 cents an hour if we’re lucky. maybe they should fire them all and just rehire the ones that did well and start over. Maybe a “pay for success” initiative should be put in place of
    “pay because we will walk out if we don’t get it” threat system.

    • Jana

      Lisa,
      If we had more parents like you, we wouldn’t have the problems in society that we do. Your children are truly blessed to have such a good mother.

  • bob wire

    Hey ! just more deferred guilt and blame. ~ Teachers don’t usually become teacher to get wealthy but are drawn by a “calling”

    And yes, there are good schools and bad schools. ~ Good teachers and bad teachers. And there is also good students and bad students.

    My experience as a parent is probably like many of the rest of you.

    My children was making straight A’s until I pulled them out of inter city schools and then they dropped to C students when they started competing in a classroom of predominately Caucasian children.

    I was tried of them coming home with head lice more then anything and never imagined that the bell curve effect was responsible for their good grades.

    The grading systems are on the BELL CURVE, ~ surly you have heard of it before?

    It’s for parents to take an active interest in their children education don’t leave it up to the state. IT’s your job! It’s always been your job!

    As a child I was a horrible student, ~ my family were back woods, dirt farmers, salt of the earth people. They spoke folk English, mispronouncing words and making up news ones. “fangers” and “fetch” or “Waanders” for windows, or nakin for napkin. I was a mess!

    Needless to say, my teachers had a job on their hands. I got little help at home.

    I feel like many of you are being way too harsh with your judgment about teachers for some overriding political reason.

  • chuckb

    bob wire

    there are a lot of good responsible teachers and everyone respects that,
    they feel the unions have degraded the quality of teachers being hired and therefor the children suffer. unions have taken away the power of the school board. it is almost impossible to replace an unqualified teacher. the union does not belong in the classroom, if teachers want to be professional them they should have to stand on their own and pass the desired certification, not what the unions will accept. in order to judge a person’s ability to do any job they have to prove they are capable. remove the unions and you will eventually see our kids coming home with an education and able to read a street sign.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    chuckb,
    The 3 stooges >> bob wire >> >> jopa >> >> DENNISO >>
    I love these guys.

  • Patriotson

    Unionist have really showed where there interest are. No give; selfish objectives; corrupt democrat senators who follow the union socialist agenda; 6 plus million worth of damages to the state capital and live ammunition found on the campus. Unions must be forced from public service jobs and government positions. We are not France, but than again, that may be the objective. The entire nation tied to unions and walkouts constant. The “haves” unions are the biggest ponzi scheme taking from the “have nots” taxpayers and producing less work; less ethical standards than their private union company brothers. Enough is enough! No Unions in government or education.

  • Don Krahel

    COLLECTIVE BARGAINING OR KICKBACK

    Is it truly collective bargaining when the AFSCME – American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees sit down to bargain with elected Democrats? Federal employee unions are illegal. Is it truly collective bargaining when plush contracts for the AFSCME are the result? Those plush contracts provide an average 45% higher pay and benefits than the private sector. “Scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” is not collective bargaining. It is not collective bargaining when these plush contracts provided $400 million support to the Democratic Party in the 2008 election campaign? That $400 million came from the dues of public employee union members who are paid by you the taxpayer. Yes, you the taxpayers are funding the Democrat Party through so-called collective bargaining by public service unions with elected Democrats? Whether you are a Democrat or a Republican or an Independent, you are unwittingly the power base of the Democrat Party! Do you suppose the kickbacks are verbalized or just tacit during the so-called collective bargaining? Or has it been ingrained in the process over 50 years?

    This arrangement is totally immoral and we the taxpayers are the suckers! Not are we only funding the Democrat Party, our children and our country suffer from an inept education system strapped by union work rules. Incompetents are not only vehemently protected, they are given tenure, some after only three years! How long has this been going on? How much longer will you tolerate it? How much longer will you support the Democrat Party’s election campaign? Sadly it has now become GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE vs. THE TAXPAYER!

    DON KRAHEL ST. CLAIRSVILLE, OH

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