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Will gun rights be curtailed in the wake of the gym shooting?

August 7, 2009 by  

Will gun rights be curtailed in the wake of the gym shooting? After this week’s deadly shooting at a fitness center in Pittsburgh, anti-gun activists are seizing the opportunity to call for restrictions on carrying hidden or loaded guns in public.

Freedom States Alliance, an organization working to reduce gun violence in America, points that the 48-year-old perpetrator had no criminal record and had a concealed weapons permit.

It adds that so far in 2009 there have been three confirmed mass shootings committed by concealed carry permit holders, and these incidents disprove the gun lobby’s claims that legal gun owners do not commit violent crimes.

"Concealed handgun permits were promoted by the gun lobby as a mechanism to arm ‘law-abiding’ citizens who, in theory, would prevent mass shootings," says Kristen Rand, legislative director of the Violence Policy Center (VPC).

"Instead, the hard facts demonstrate that concealed handgun permit holders don’t prevent mass shootings, they perpetrate them," she adds.

VPC research suggests the Pittsburgh gunman was at least the sixth person licensed to carry a concealed weapon to commit a mass shooting since May 2007. Those incidents claimed 26 lives and injured 16 people.

Police have confirmed three women were killed and nine others wounded when the gunman opened fire at the gym on Tuesday night. He later killed himself.

Meanwhile, supporters of gun rights have been pushing for legislation to allow concealed and loaded weapons to be carried on college campuses and in government buildings.
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  • Jim in Houston

    You should be ashamed of yourselves. The VPC “research” has been thoroughly debunked. Go here:
    http://www.examiner.com/x-3253-Minneapolis-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m7d21-Lies-damn-lies-and-VPC-statistics
    Hang your head in shame and do a little real research next time.

    • Chris

      Jim, we will always be lied to by people who ignore the truth to get what they want. The truth only belongs to moral people not those who advocate progressivism or has we know it, socialism. Even the Virginia school shootings were reported as stopped by the gunman being tackled by two students rather than the truth that two law abiding students subdued the gunman by going and getting their own guns. Again, I don’t expect the truth from the left or MS media and neither should anyone else. To put it bluntly, they have become a parasite infecting our country.

      • http://cmblake6.wordpress.com cmblake6

        Truth? Truth? How dare you? They can’t handle the truth!

    • Rob

      Folks…
      This is an Excellent example of why I take a hard line when I hear idiots that are upset by the way Washington is running the country, proclaim we should take up arms against our government.

      We are all upset by the unconstitutional over reaching by Washington. True.

      Put down any ideas about marching on Washington with arms. BAD IDEA.

      Any Idiot Parade will be used as justification to disarm EVERYBODY.

      Bob Livingston has been urging everybody to basically become a survivalist to some extent, ie, store food, buy gold, become self sufficient in the event the system goes down. Good advise. Every survival kit should contain a weapon. Rifle, shotgun, revolver, ect. For your own protection, even to shoot your own food if necessary. God forbid, but it would be best to be ABLE to fend for yourself in an emergency, than to have to wait for a government rescue. Those who lived through Katrina, learned that lesson the hard way.

      When you say stupid things like taking up arms against the government, you put that right in jepordy. I am very adament about this. Armed insurection is a frickin PIPE DREAM, forget about it. You will do nothing but play into their hands.

      PLEASE READ THIS, MOST IMPORTANT!

      Hitler was stopped because he used overt force. Force can be seen, recognised for what it is, and dealt with. No one likes agression. Agressers are perceived as BAD. Always.

      Infiltration, stealth, and making gradual changes, not only are not perceived as a threat, but go largley undetected. This is the method used by todays Progressives/Socialists, who have run our country off track over the last 50- 60++ years.

      Employ the same methods. They work.

      Want to make a change in America? Use the system to change the system. We still have voting. Vote them all out.

      If they come at us with force, it will be seen as heavy handed governmental force, and those responsible will be hung out to dry by the “VICTEMS”. Get it?

      Play the GAME!

      • Lindy

        Excellent post Rob! The average American has to do more than worry about what’s on TV tonight. Put down the remote, read a newspaper, pick-up a magazine, watch those political shows (on any channel except Fox) and get informed and get involved.

        • Rob

          Thanks Lindy!

        • Bryan W. Carpenter

          If you are going to the newspaper and the MSM for news, what you get is liberal spin.The inernet is much better.

        • DaveH

          Is this the Hiltons having a conversation with themselves, lol?

        • DaveH

          Unbelievably ignorant comment. Foxnews is not perfect by any means, but they are head over heals more unbiased than any of the other news channels.

    • Ronnie Elliott

      Well here is some research YOU should KNOW !
      A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
      In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953,
      about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
      up and exterminated.
      In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million
      Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
      Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of
      13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
      rounded up and exterminated.
      China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
      political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
      exterminated
      Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000
      Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
      Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
      Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
      Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million
      educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
      Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
      because of gun control: 56 million.
      It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new
      law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own
      Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million
      dollars. The first year results are now in:
      Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
      Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.
      Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
      In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300
      percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the
      criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!
      While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed
      robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past
      12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
      There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the
      elderly. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
      safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was
      expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The
      Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it..
      You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
      disseminating this information.
      Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
      gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
      Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late!
      The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind
      them of this history lesson.
      With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are subjects.
      SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A FULLY-AUTOMATIC RIFLE.
      SWITZERLAND ‘S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A FULLY-AUTOMATIC RIFLE.
      SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

      [Reply]

      • Brian Rawls

        That was great,thanks for the info. I hope everyone reads this.

        • Ronnie Elliott

          Thanks and I do too, plus hope they go to these other sites and join in on with letting others Know the TRUTH ! terrorstorm.com policestate.com 911truth.org download TVU player (its free) and go to see these programs that expose these things. like channel 68078 exposing 9/11 Tyrrany And Police state go to the JBS station (John Birch Society) or JBS.com station 77433 on TVU, CPTV THEN TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW AN HAVE CONTACT WITH ! Exposing the TRUTH is the best way to deal with them,they want to be in the shadows and NOW they are being brought out in the OPEN !!

      • DaveH

        This doesn’t matter to kool-aid drinking liberals. They think they are going to be on the safe side of the exterminations. Probably they aren’t. Let’s see if they can whine then.

  • s c

    Can libs think? When a problem seems to cause deaths, then get rid of the problem (right?). Is that how libs look at guns and the 2nd Amendment? How many people die on highways each year? Perhaps 50,000? That’s a problem, isn’t it? How many people die in hospitals each year because they were OVERDOSED by their MD? (over 100,000). That’s even worse!
    Your feel-good, silly putty-brained insanity demands that we get rid of guns. If so, then let’s get rid of VEHICLES and MDs, too! Solve the problem (right?). Just remember, an unnecessary death is an unnecessary death. No wonder it’s so easy to be a lib. No mind is required, and you’ll never be questioned by a ‘friend.’
    Libs will NEVER find a justifiable reason to get rid of the 2nd
    Amendment. Good luck in getting the real reason why your ‘leaders’ don’t want weapons in the hands of people they can’t control. Here it is, libs. The 2nd Amendment lets people be FREE from two-legged traitors who hate FREEDOM and those who LOVE FREEDOM. If you can’t understand that, then kindly move to a country where stupidity is a way of life. Take your ‘friends’ with you.

    • Jerry Semenick

      I totally agree

    • Rob

      Well no SC, its more complicated than that. Libs just don’t like guns, and they will find every justification to show guns in the very worst light. Yes, libs would like to get rid of all guns, but thats a pipe dream. Guns will never be eradicated.
      Kind of like expecting to eradicate unlawful behavior. Pass all the laws you want, but people will still break them.

      Thanks.

      • Margie Adam

        You are totally wrong. I am a Lib and I love guns. I think everyone from the age of four to death should be legally required to carry a loaded weapon upon their person at all times. If caught without your loaded weapon, you should be justifiably shot by anyone who cares to do so. Guns are our friends. Guns are our God. Guns help people to NOT overload our health care system. Guns solve the end-of-life choice question. Guns solve the over population problem. GUNS ARE GREAT!

        • Paul Trood

          Gee Margie I would really hate to piss you off!!!

        • Rob

          Shot??? For not carrying your weapon?

          Isn’t America about Freedom? Freedom of Choice?

          Right,

          Thanks for stirring the pot and making a mockery of serious issues.

          Most gun owners don’t think that way. But I think you know that already, or you wouldn’t feel the need to give an ARTIFICIAL PUSH.

          Kinda like when people lie to prove their case. If they really believed they had a case, they wouldn’t feel the need to strengthen it with lies…

          Go back to Cuba….

        • Brian Rawls

          Margie, I bet you would be good fun with a handgun.

        • Bryan W. Carpenter

          I hope you didn’t bite your tongue, Martie.

        • DaveH

          Margie,
          I suspect that the part about you being liberal is true. The rest looks like you are trying to subvert our gun rights by painting us out to be wackos. At least I hope so!

      • Margie Adam

        Dear Rob: Here I am a liberal just trying to be supportive of your right to love your guns. Then all you hotheads just get all hyped up because someone is supportive of you. You know you can’t have it both ways. Either you love your guns or you don’t. I think you just aren’t serious enough about guns or maybe you are secretly a lib yourself.

        I give all my friends’ children birthday and Christmas gifts which are guns because I try to be supportive of their desire that all of us realize the benefit of guns. You know in the city in which I live those guns have helped solve domestic disputes to the rate of maybe three a day: Husbands killing their wives, wives killing their husbands, siblings killing each other. You know it really helps end conflict—and family conflict is the most frequent conflict of all.

        • DaveH

          Ok, now I know that I am right. Go away liberal unless you are going to be honest about your real intentions.

        • http://aol.com Dolores

          I’m neither Liberal or Conservative in regards to laws or our government. I don’t feel that it’s right to abolish the right to have a gun or a permit to carry a concealed gun. America has too much Criminal Activites being carried out in this supposedly Law Abiding Country. It’s usually the Law Abiding Citizens such as your Elders, Unsuspecting Females,and Men going about their Personal Business that are being Robbed, Stabbed,Shot or Murdered. The Criminals always have Access to Guns. I feel there should be a Psychoanalytical Examination(s) done to each person by their state, to determine whether the person has Mental Problems, that would make them dangerous, to have a gun before they’re allowed to purchase it. People Kill! Guns Don’t Kill Unless In The Hands Of A Human That Has No Feelings For Pulling The Trigger. I have tried to emphasize the important points about having a Gun by using capital letters where necessary to keep your attention drawn on the real facts.

      • http://alex110539@yahoo.com alex ,sandiego

        rob ,if it wasn’t illeagl they wouldn’t be breaking the law so lets make everything legal

    • Ronnie Elliott

      YEP : GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE! PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE !
      I’m a trained x-Marine and I can kill in many ways very silent and by hand or other weapons,can kill you with a spoon,so should they band them too LOL? DUH Get REAL YOU bunch of IDIOTS We were given that RIGHT SO THE GOVERMENT Cann’t Kill us and take over,We can Protect Our Homes & Families from all that TREAD ON US !TRYNNEY Works best when the Goverment need not fear the Public !!!So if YOU want to be Stupid and give up YOUR Right to Bear Arms then go ahead and shoot yourself and get it over with now save them from doing it later ! All these things are PLOTS to Brain wash YOU into being a dummy and doing what they want ,Be Defenceless for them ! DUH! Bunch of IDIOTS cannt figure that out need to be tared and feathered like they use to do Traders !

      • Margie Adam

        Ronnie – get a grip! NO ONE is trying to take your guns away. Government is run by ordinary people like me and yourself. You sound very paranoid. The fear is that paranoid people with guns start to imagine conspiracies and then shoot up innocent bystanders.

        I think that you should have spent more time in school so that you could spell words like tryanny correctly. You would feel less fear from your fellow Americans if you could just realize that the ordinary government employee is not there to come in the night like the boogey man and take your gun away.

        I always thought that the Marines were there to protect and defend our country—now you are telling me that you are plotting against our government. You are a very scary person. By the way–the only people who could “go ahead and shoot yourself and get it over with” would be you people who have guns. The rest of us would have to die by overeating. AND there are a lot of us doing just that!

        • Ronnie Elliott

          Excuse me ,if I get a little upset,Its not Paranoid to see TRUTH !My spelling may be like many others NOT PERFECT,However it does get my point across which is the Main thing here !Maybe YOU are a sweet Person and calm and non violent and a good christian lady.However YOU dont seem to be as well informed as YOU think YOU are either. Maybe YOU will be nice and let them take your rights away,and think oh they aren’t trying to take my guns away thay are just trying to make the world a better place .DUH ! Maybe YOU are what they have already gotten too many to believe.No mam I am Not about to believe that ! I have kept the paid for media out of my life and when I see their Lies and misleading articles I use Wisdom and discernment !Not a fork to eat it all up !I’m not a radical or extremest,I know the Pen is mighter than the sword ! That Prayer can and does Change things.However so many Americans are already Brainwashed through this paid for Media ! It is TRUTH and Maybe you are one of the one that listen and believe their LIES & Deception.If YOU are really in search of all the truth and want to see their plans and agendas,go to some of these sites and see more and LEARN the TRUTH ! like : terrorstorm.com 911truth.org theobamadeception.com davidicke.com prisonplanet.com Maybe you need a little more gun history and facts.A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
          In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953,
          about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
          up and exterminated.
          In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million
          Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
          Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of
          13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
          rounded up and exterminated.
          China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
          political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
          exterminated
          Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000
          Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
          Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
          Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
          Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million
          educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
          Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
          because of gun control: 56 million.
          It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new
          law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own
          Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million
          dollars. The first year results are now in:
          Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
          Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.
          Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
          In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300
          percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the
          criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!
          While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed
          robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past
          12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
          There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the
          elderly. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
          safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was
          expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The
          Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it..
          You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
          disseminating this information.
          Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
          gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
          Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late!
          The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind
          them of this history lesson.
          With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are subjects.
          SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A FULLY-AUTOMATIC RIFLE.
          SWITZERLAND ‘S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A FULLY-AUTOMATIC RIFLE.
          SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

          [Reply]

        • DaveH

          Yep, you have come out of the closet. Go away liberal, this is a site for people that love freedom. We’ve heard all your arguments from the propaganda media. Don’t bore us.

    • Margie Adam

      S C

      Can we just have a reasonable discussion without villafying people. I guess I would be considered a lib because I try (although it is really tough sometimes) to consider myself “my brother’s keeper.” Yes, I am afraid of guns. I have never had a gun. If I had a gun, my husband would now be dead and my children would be fatherless and motherless because I would be in jail. In every family situation there comes a time when tempers are so hot that “killing the jerk” seems to be a good solution. Also my closest friend whose family loves guns had their eldest son blow his own head off with a gun over a failed highschool romance. My other close friend lost her daughter when her boyfriend showed up at her house to show her the new handgun he had just purchased and accidentally killed her. That kid is now in prison. My cousins child got 17 years (now dying in prison due to throat cancer) because he killed his own father with a gun at the age of 14 (the dad deserved it –was a wife and child abuser), but then killed his friend at the age of 22 when he learned his friend was a pedophile.

      I do know that guns sometimes save lives. It is just that there are so many paranoid mentally deranged people in this country who seem to have no problem getting a gun. Where are you people with your loaded weapons to protect the rest of us when these nutcases are blasting away? Many people just don’t want to be the victim of the next drive-by shooting. What is the answer?? Why don’t you gun lovers join the neighborhood watch group and protect the rest of us who are frightened of handling guns or having them around volatile teenage boys. By the way boys are really fascinated with guns–if they are in the house, boys will find them.

      • Ronnie Elliott

        Well not sure there is a good answer for all, however a good place to start is to learn more about guns and the reasons to have them & your rights to own them. try this place it is a very good sight with more detail than most plus they will help you to overcome that fear of guns. frontsight.com there is nothing to Fear but Fear itself. B4 guns it was many other things used for defence. GUNS dont Kill People People kill People. Would have it and Never need it than to need it and Not have it.

      • DaveH

        Where are we to protect you? I don’t want to protect you, or your freedom robbing ilk. Your kind has made it hard enough to protect ourselves.
        Yes, children can find the guns. That is why we should focus on teaching them safety, not on keeping them ignorant. The NRA has tried to interest legislatures in teaching gun safety in school, and only a few were really interested. They don’t care about safety, they just want to throw as many roadblocks up as possible to disarm the population.

      • sean

        Margie,
        As a typical liberal, you have what 3 or 4 stories that have happen in your inner circle with gun violence, I own a gun and live in a gun first area of the country South Carolina, yet not one of my family or even a friend I know has lost some one to gun violence. I am 59 years old as of yet I have not been personally affected by a firearm. Yet you a liberal non-gun owner has had so many incidents of gun violence, bull dinky! Like all liberals from the congress on up to cheif progressive head lib, everytime there is a debate on an issue, you all have a prop, human of course. Their life has been totally ruined by the big bad boogie man of the moment. Health Care, they parade people that are on a death bed because they lost their insurance, their mother lost her benifits they are facing total financal collaspe, people dying in the streets, i have not read a single story on that but hell you all say it, must be true. We know that each and every time they are way overblown, but facts and the truth are not a staple of the left. I guess lies and phony stories have taken the place of honesty and personal responseabilty. OH LOOK OUT SOMEONE JUST SHOT THE DOG, IT WAS THE CAT, QUICK LETS OUTLAW THOSE KILLING CATS AT ONCE !

    • James

      S C, the 2nd Amendment’s “shall not be infringed” is a restriction the Founders placed upon the federal government. The right to bear arms is fundamental and inalienable, Americans are born with it, but states do regulate the right. Stated otherwise, the right isn’t dependent on the 2nd Amendment for its existence.

  • john

    So according to VPC logic if the mass murderer did not have a weapons carry permit he could not have committed this crime? This is the stupidest logic I have heard of. I think there was nothing that could have stopped any of these nut jobs. You may have a fighting chance if you have a firearm with you, but usually this people pick places where people are unarmed, thanks to organizations like VPC…

    • DaveH

      Right on John.

    • Jerry Semenick

      totally

    • Rob

      John, its not logic, its a game.
      Of course it does not make any sense.

      Its not about making sense, its about causing a commotion, then passing laws that will clamp down further on gun rights. This will of course have no affect on unlawful gun owners….

      They cannot control guns in the hands of law breakers, as they own guns and there is no record of how the gun was aquired. But guns in the hands of law abiding citizens they can control through laws. They are lumping criminals and law abiding citizens in the same catagory: Gun Owners.
      And to some housewife who hears about another school shooting, and has no gun experience herself, or worse, is afraid of guns, banning them seems like a good idea. They are playing on our fears…
      But she has never had to deal with burglers, she has never had to deal with bears, coyotes, bobcats or lynx, she has no idea why anyone might need a gun. She’s the type of woman, who would just lay down for a rapist, and do what he says. Then spend the rest of her life hating men… When she should have had the training and the power in her own hands to put a stop to any scumbags herself. She would respect herself more, and not put the blame for her own weakness on everybody else.

      Aside from need, the Second Amendment spells out our right to own them, whether we have a specific “Need” or not. Its our RIGHT. And that right shall not be infringed.

      • Ronnie Elliott

        Thats for sure & In that it doesnt say we have to have a consealed permit to carry one either( however they have done that illegaly to make us have to let them know who is armed & follow their rules and laws !Not the Laws & The Rights that we WERE GIVEN in the Constitution ! Show me in the Bill of rights where it says it! It doesn’t it says the RIGHT TO BARE ARMS Not to get a permit (give them money and knowledge) to carry a Hidden weapon(GUN).With all the states doing this and then they want let that permit be good in all the states anyhow ! DUH ! WHO Profits from that deal? I trained my kids YOUNG to know the safty and handling of Guns,How to use them and respect them .Which is what everyone should have been taught in school scence it is your RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS ! Instead they want to teach you to be afraid of them and not own them and tell on others that have one ! Sometimes I wonder how these people ever made it this far in Life ! WISE UP Show some Common scence quit letting them BRAIN WASH YOU to be there little Nazis & Be a Slave to them ! I say RAISE MORE HELL about the laws they already have passed and get them Repealed also, Not make MORE ! Plus Leave our AMMO ALONE To which is their next method of keeping us from being able to defend ourselves.Guns cann’t do as much if ya dont have ammo !

        • Rob

          Hey Ronnie, So right you are.
          I take issue with only one of your points. A small matter, but at the same time a HUGE one.

          You stated that we, “Were Given” the right to keep and bear arms by the Constitution.

          Well those who give can also take away.

          We were not given those rights by the Constitution. The founders recognised that these were God given rights. Not that God is pro gun, but rather the idea that the good need protection from the evil, and that everybody has the God given right to be safe. And being safe starts with us. It is our responsibility first and foremost.

          If you are in danger, by all means call the police.
          But while you are waiting for them to show up, you will have to fend for yourself.
          A gun is the great equalizer. The meek and the mighty fall before it. Use your weapon responsibily.

          And this is not directed at you Ronnie, but I cannot say this enough.
          Obey the laws, even if you feel they are not lawful laws. Forget about any armed uprising ideas. Because THOSE ARE BAD IDEAS!

          I keep saying this, because I have been hearing lately about the “Rise of the Militia Movement.” We heard this nonsense in the 1990′s under Clinton. I do not know if this is a real threat, or a made up threat by the government, but we didn’t hear too much about this under Bush. Under Bush it was terrorism. Always some threat. But the government’s methods of dealing with it are the same: More loss of rights for Americans.

          In my opinion, the only thing a citizen militia is good for, is in the very unlikely event our armed forces are defeated, and the USA is invaded by an enemy nation. Then Red Blooded Americans can fight the enemy themselves on our own soil.

          But as for discontent with Washington, use the system thats in place to make changes. Protest, raise hell, call your congressman, hound them, whatever. It may get you put on a domestic terrorist list, but as long as you are staunchly nonviolent, they have NOTHING on you.
          Do not even think of doing something stupid with a firearm. It will backfire bigtime, and only result in the Progressive Socialists and Facists furthering their agenda. You will play into their hands. They never squander a crisis….. You will either wind up dead, or in prison for the rest of your life. You are more useful alive and a pain in their ass, than dead.
          Stupidity will only result in their eroding even more of our Constitutional rights.

          Why do they want to disarm us? What are they afraid of? Are they planning something that will piss us off?

          Fear the government, that fears it’s people.
          But play the game. Be on the right side of the law.

          Thanks Ronnie!

        • Ronnie Elliott

          You are absolutely Right Rob and I just wasn’t thinking ,had my mind on other issues LOL,It is GOD that gives us Our Rights,Not a Goverment that could take them away.Sorry about that ,will try to think more b4 I type LOL
          The Goverment was Created by Man to help protect the Rights GOD Gave us all.

        • DaveH

          Rob,
          It could come to the point, though, where violence is the only answer. What if the government completely ignores the laws of our land? Do the citizens just say “Please don’t do that”.
          I certainly don’t think now is that time. As long as we can vote, we can change things without violence and yes by threatening violence we play right into the Liberals hands.
          But if you can’t envision a government that so thoroughly violates the rights of its citizens as to need violent overthrow, then you need to get back to the history books.

    • Charles

      This is pure speculation on my part but it would not suprise me one bit if there was a connection between at least some of the shooters and the anti-gun crowd. This connection would be in the form of the anti’s quietly encouraging unstable individuals to commit mass mayhem but doing it in a very subtle way that goes undetected. Like I said this is speculation on my part but I put nothing past people who lie to the extent that HCI and other anti gun groups and people do.

      • Ronnie Elliott

        Well I am with ya on that too! they have ways of doing just that,How did they get Jack Ruby to shoot Oswald? Like many others their are things they do and Lie so much about that I dont trust our goverment and any of its Branches,Ya know the apple never falls far from the tree!So You may be more right than YOU know.YOU Have to watch one hand while they steal with the other hand. WISDOM in all things is to look and observe from all sides.Ask who profits,why is this a concern?Why is goverment doing that? What will it Profit them in the long run.Is this what the Best Constitution EVER written in the HISTORY OF MANKIND ,says?Is this what my forefathers wanted for us?Once you question these things YOU will get more logic from it.

      • Margie Adam

        Charles: You seem to need meds. Now you are suggesting that people who don’t like guns are the ones inciting nutcases to go out and do mass killings. You honestly think that the mentally deranged person who would kill others could be talked into anything other than what his own sick mind tells him to do. Even doctors aren’t very successful in treating mental illness.

        What is very scary in reading what all you gun proponents seem to have as a common thread is “paranoia.” Paranoia is in itself not desirable. So here I am average citizen — Margie Adam — reading all these rants from people who are stock piling guns. No wonder this country is becoming so polarized. We who don’t have guns wouldn’t worry so much about those of you who do want guns if you didn’t have such “hate” for anyone whose opinion differs from yours.

        I changed from being frightened by gun lovers to a proponent of those loving guns because so many of my friends who are gun lovers have lost family members due to having guns in the house. I just came to the conclusion that eventually gun lovers will evolve out.

        • Ronnie Elliott

          Again its not that we are paranoid its that we have been doing more research and finding out more.The reasons for some blowing their own heads off or accidently shooting someone is more from them not being taught gun safty and respect.WE ARE NOT AGAINST ANYONES OPION ON GUN RIGHTS,WE ARE AGINST THE GOVERMENT TAKING THEM AWAY!We have always defended the women & kids that are unable to defend themselves.We are mostly Christians and decent Humans that have seen the error of other countries and people who believed their goverments.We have looked into these matters and sceen their real purpose in their rules & laws.We have seen them come and take Americans guns from them already,Not in the Night but during the day being cuffed and all their guns taken from their home during Katrina they did it and will continue to do these acts until enough people See & understand their purpose !I try to do the Right thing and Treat everyone equal & love them and even my enimies.However it doesn’t work when you are dealing with PURE EVIL !those intent on Ruling the WORLD !So they never have to work and do anything but enjoy their Riches that they have stolen.They are Spoiled little Socilaist,Communist,Fascist,lunatics that have been taken care of and not been working for a living like the rest of Humanity.They are Cowards and Evil doers all over the world.These are facts Not Paranoia.Like Hitler they are good at fooling people and gettin you on their side.Called Narsictic (spelling I know LOL) personalities,In fact I have heard our presidents personality traits from his Physcogolist,He is just like Hitler in his thinking.Look at his Ways and demeanor? Can YOU see it?Thinks he is here to save the world and he is our salavation! he is our King of Kings !

        • Rob

          Margie, take it easy on Charles.
          Charles was not saying “People that don’t like guns,” are doing these things….

          But he wonders, CIA perhaps, setting up situations, “Created Crises” that will allow Government Solutions.
          I know what he means.
          Our CIA is down and dirty. We have rigged foreign elections, done foreign assinations…stirred up riots and protest abroad, ect.
          Seriously, what proof do any of us have that they are not employing those tactics here on American soil?
          Because of the goodness and wholesomeness of our government? Right…. Thats exactly why we wonder.
          Charles said it was purely speculation.

          It is important to keep your eyes open and remain open to all possibilities. Anything is possible.
          You are being niave to believe in the “Goodness” of our leaders.

        • Rob

          And Margie, its an old tactic to label “Sick” or “Deranged” or “Parinoid” those with whom you do not agree with politically. The Soviets did it.

          There is nothing paranoid about witnessing your Second Amendments rights slipping away and being upset about it. or your First Amendment Rights, and all other rights being curtailed.

          I want to say this too…..I have absolutely NO HATE whatsoever for those who would rather not have a gun in the house. CHOICE is consistant with Freedom. Its your choice.
          I do not like those who want to curtail MY CHOICE, and there are those who very much want to.

          Lastly, there are not really that many cases of gun owners shooting themselves by accident. If you fear that, buy a rifle. Longer barrel, no chance of turning it on yourself. A gun is dangerous, just like a chop saw, just like a nail gun, a chainsaw, and an axe. You need to know how to handle this tool safely, and keep your focus at all times while using it.
          Don’t get drunk and use a chain saw. Common sense applies here.
          You can cut your finger with a kitchen knife….
          Perhaps you were refering to kids getting into dad’s gun cabinet. Again, personal responsibility is in order here. Teach your children to respect firearms, just like you teach them right from wronge, to use a condom, to stay the HELL OUT of the liquer cabinet. If your kid cannot be trusted around the booze, you lock it up right?

          Do not stick your hands into the spinning blade of a lawnmower. We laugh at those ridiculous warnings, but there are people that actually did those things. I saw a guy on Letterman 20 years ago, that stopped a spinning fan blade with his tounge. What was he thinking the first time he tried that?

          I don’t need laws to protect me from myself. If I want the freedom to be stupid, then I pay the price.
          Margie, I respect your right not to own firearms if you so choose. But it is our God given right to be safe. Where I live, I have bear, coyote, bobcat, and lynx trapsing through my yard. When I come home at 11:00 at night, I cannot say for sure what I will encounter hanging around my front door. In a pinch, I reserve my right to be able to defend myself from some rabid animal. I have stood within 10 feet of a bobcat I suprised, and the bastard was getting ready to rock and roll. His back feet were thumping, and I was a very long way from the house. Most of us gun owners are not thinking of shooting people. Unless those people are shooting people…..

          Survival is a right. I will never think otherwise.
          Give it up.

        • DaveH

          OMG Margie,
          You must have read Saul Alinsky’s book “Rules for Radicals”.
          “You seem to need Meds”, “Paranoia”, “rants”, “people stockpiling guns”, “polarized”, “hate”, “evolve out”. All from your statement. That sort of childish manipulation won’t work on me, and probably not on most others on this board.
          As I said before, get off this board. It was established for freedom-lovers, not freedom-takers.

      • DaveH

        History is replete with people spreading misinformation and committing deeds to frame others.

  • hattles

    Typical VPC misinformation. If the truth don’t fit…then lie about it. Another issue related to the latest gunmen is that media pointed out that the gun used was purchased through an online vendor. What wasn’t reported was that any online purchases must be shipped to an FFL holder and processed the exact same way as if it were purchased through a local store.

    We tend to label people as libs,democrats,republicans,conservatives, right wing extremists when in fact it is just plain ignorance that drives people to give up their freedom. All the name calling in the world does not change the truth.

  • bert

    How many more crimes, attacks have been prevented by concealed gun permitees vs. the 3 mentioned? I would think the ratio would be in the hundreds, if not thousands. Anyone know?

    • DaveH

      That one is difficult to compile Bert for the simple reason that thrwated crimes rarely get reported to police.

      • DaveH

        Alright, I should have done spellcheck. I meant “thwarted”

  • spatin

    How many thousands and thousands of attacks and criminal intrusions have been avoided because of the simple appearance of a gun by the intended victim?
    Are those reported by the anti-gun lunatic left wing media? – Not hardly.
    We, the American people of the United States of America, have a Constitution right to keep and bear arms, and to protect ourselves and our homes from unwanted and illegal attacks, and you and the whole Congress and the communist Obama does not have the right or the power to keep us from enforcing our right to self defense.

    • cr747

      The news media likes to talk about the bad, never here anything about the good things.
      There’s been a lot of killings, robberies, rapes stopped by an armed citizen, but you won’t here about it on the news.

      • Ronnie Elliott

        Well if they did they would call him a vigilanti,or He shot and unarmed man,he didn’t have to use deadly force,Yea YOU hear it from their warped minds !Like some breakins where they bad guy get shot and killed and only had a knife and wasn’t able to defend himself from that Homeowner that killed him !Have seen them put people in jail for defending their home & family !Or the Bad guy gets hurt in the home while committing a robbery and then sues them for hurting his poor dumb ass.If I could I would have my home rigged to blow there asses away even if I weren’t home !Just like in Switzerland the goverment Gives and trains every home a automatic rifle !They have the lowest crime rate in the world.Gee wonder how much scence it takes to figure out why?When the BAD guy knows YOU have the right to kill them they are a whole lot less likely to bother you!And the Mentaly disturbed one are gonna do it in one way or another anyhow .Guns dont kill people ! People Kill People ! Take a loaded gun and even pull the hammer back so it is ready to Kill,put it on the wall and never touch it,will it Kill YOU ?Will it somehow aim its self at you and pull the trigger? DUH !SO MANY Brainwashed idiots and simple minded.WAKE THE F UP !!!

        • DaveH

          Ronnie,
          The one that cracks me up is they will actually try to prosecute you in many cities for not coming to a victim’s aid while they are under attack. This after pretty much disarming most of us.

    • Margie Adam

      Okay – Here we go again. I honestly want to know where all the posters here are coming up with this idea that it is President Obama who is personally trying to take your gun away. I read everything and anything I can find regarding politics and I have never seen him print or say that he wants to take your guns away. Now I may have heard someone else say that President Obama wants to take your gun away but this is third party speak not something coming out of President Obama’s mouth. It seems that gun lovers have to have a boogey man and who better than a black man.

      Again this is part of what makes the average reasonable person frightened of gun proponents. All this crazy talk from people carrying around guns is down right frightening. I live in a town where almost everybody does have a gun. The nightly news is a list of all the domestic violence — I swear there are never less than three gun deaths a night. But it is husbands killing wives, wives killing husbands, siblings killing siblings. Also we see beer parties for teenagers where three or four lose their lives. We have driveby shootings where three year old children die in their beds from gun fire coming through walls. We had a learning disabled man who killed three teenage girls who were trying to break into his house. He was then shot and killed by angy neighbors. It just goes on and on. And I feel really bad for the police department that is contending with all this idiocy.

      • spatin

        Well I’m sure glad I don’t live where you live. I am not aware of any city or town where there is the degree of gun violence as you depict in your post. If it truly is that bad, then maybe you should have martial law where you live.
        But, where I live, gun violence is not so prominent. In fact, sometimes the fact that a private gun owner stops a crime in progress is actually reported by the media. The sheriff here encourages private ownership and carry of firearms by responsible law abiding people because he knows it reduces crime.

        As to Obama, he is personally trying to restrict or even abolish the 2nd Amendment. He appointed anti-gun zealots to important cabinet posts, chief of staff, attorney general, secretary of state, legal counsel for the US office at the UN, the first hispanic justice of the supreme court (who does not feel bound by the language of the Constitution), all rabid anti-gun lunatics who would feel good about disarming all US citizens and leaving us defenseless in the streets. And that’s just for starters, I could go on. How about the question on his application for White House staff positions as to whether the applicant or anyone in the applicant’s family owns a gun? (presumably an affirmative answer would preclude employment there) So, yes, Virginia, the lunatic left wing rookie Obama is trying to abolish the 2nd Amendment, and the entire Constitution for that matter, based on his nationalization of several industries and now his attempts to nationalize the health industry.

        • DaveH

          Chicago has an extreme amount of violence, but guess what, they have stringent anti-gun laws (or at least did have until recent Supreme Court decision).

      • Ronnie Elliott

        Well once again here we go LOL,I don’t recall anyprint or film on OBAMA saying anything that isn’t pre written for HIM !He is a PUPPET and takes orders like most of them from the Shadow goverment and that is What they want!They are the ones that want Us Un armed,The Presidents for many years have been Puppetts for this Oligarthy which remains in the shadows.He met with them in Private b4 he was elected Him and Hillary when they ditched the reporters and couldn’t be found for 2 days! Yea Glenn Beck and hundreds knew where they went,Which is ILLEGAL to meet in private to discuss our Economy and any other plans for America,unless it is with the Federal Gov.They meet with ! So YOU maybe right on him Not saying it in print or public but It is a fact that this is the AGENDA they have Planned is to disarm us.When that started looking like well they aren’t going to just be stupid and give them up what happens? Oh lets make certian kinds of guns illegal ,and Hillary goes and talks to the Ammo makers and gets them to cut back on supply so we cannt hardly even buy bullets for a 22 rifle !Plus they uped the Price by several dollars (around $6 more here at Wally World ) And they hardly ever have any in stock like they have all the other yrs prior to this !So be as Liberal as YOU want to be and like- um or not.Guns are Not Leaving my home by force or by changing a law!I’ll have to be like the Outlaws ,Because if they are made illegal only the gov.& outlaws will have them.LOLBesides I buy some guns that they dont know about anyway,can get them here in Georgia from the gun shows and out of ads in newspapers from private owners.The people in your town must drink a lot and do all that fighting over who drank whos beer LOL.Normal people dont do all that,do YOU? I know I have had my share of NUTTY X’s that I felt Like shooting,But had the good scence Not to.I have Never Hit a Woman in anger,I’ll turn the other cheek and walk away.So a lot of the problem is in the way some are raised and what their MORALS are.Still doesn’t change the fact If they are going to kill someone they will do it with a hammer,a knife,poison,a car,or some way.and Guns dont kill People, People Kill People.HUGS HUN and GOD Bless YOU and Hope YOU never need a Gun.If I mispelled any thing this time Forgive my Ignorance.

        • DaveH

          Ronnie,
          Don’t let Margie’s ridicule of your spelling silence you. That is what she wants. I usually cut and paste my comments into Word and use the spell-check there, to make sure the Liberals can’t attack me on it.

      • DaveH

        Below are statements made by Obama:
        he was in favor of local law suits against gun manufacturers,
        he supports for prohibiting gun shops within five miles of any school,
        he is against concealed carry by law abiding citizens,
        he favors one gun a month laws,
        he favors ‘assault weapons bans’,
        he has favored a ban on all semiautomatic firearms,
        he favors limits on handgun ammunition,
        he favors limits on ‘assault weapon’ ammunition,
        he believes that state and local entities should be able to implement their own gun control.

        How many sheep does the Wolf have to kill for you to see that he is just wearing a sheep suit?

  • Jim

    Had even one of the members of the Latin aerobics class been armed that day, there might have been but one sparsely-attended funeral.

  • Phil Knowles

    The libs aren’t stupid or ignorant. They want control. They know that if people are armed, they can’t control. That’s all it is. The libs are nothing more than evil, unAmerican, dictators. It’s in history. Some people are duped into believing guns are bad. Well, my wife thought that way, and now she knows better with a little educational experience. The problem is not guns, it’s nut jobs. Instead of taking freedoms away, build community you stupid libs.

    • sisyphus

      This is an example of the usual socialist method of gaining social control…
      Problem/Reaction/Solution

      Problem: Gun use by spree killers

      Reaction: whip up public panic & Demand regulation

      Solution: Institute more controls & remove the rights and freedoms of all

    • Margie Adam

      To: Phil Knowles
      I am a lib and I definitely wnat you to have your guns. Afterall, I have three different friends (all conservatives) whose families have lost teenage sons through gun accidents — well, actually one of the three intentionally blew his own head off over a highschool failed romance. The other two were hunting accidents. Oh and my cousin’s child killed his own father with his father’s gun. So I love guns and want you all to have lots of them. I think no one should control your ability to have your guns. GUNS are your friends! AND there are four conservatives who will not be reproducing!

      • Phil

        I’m sorry you had that traumatic experience. Not to sound insensitive, those types of things are due to the human condition, or sin. My wife had a traumatic experience and for four years, I had educated her on guns, the importance of them, and the proper use of them. Now, she is eligible to get her carry permit and also shoots better than me. :) And it seems not all libs think alike. Not sure if the last comment was sarcastic or genuine. In 12 years of military experience and civilian training, I have not had one accident.

        • Margie Adam

          Hi Phil — Of course, it was hyperbole! You may not have had an accident in your family, Phil. BUT, I am surrounded by it. I live in a state with very liberal gun laws. Anyone and everyone can carry a concealed weapon. In this state you can buy a gun at a gun show. The nightly news is a list of all the gun deaths. Husbands killing wives, wives killing husbands, children killing parents, teenagers at beer parties killing other teenagers. Three year old children dying in their beds due to the bullets flying through the walls during driveby shootings. Why aren’t these gun proponents volunteering for the “Neighborhood Watch Groups”???? I have personally had three friends who have lost teenagers due to loving guns and keeping them loaded and sitting around the house because if you have a home invasion it is too late to unlock the gun cabinet and then also locate the ammunition which should be hid in a separate place. Teenage boys are fascinated by guns and if they are in the house, boys will find them. I also have a relative sitting in prison for 17 years (now dying in prison of throat cancer) because not only did he shoot his father to death at the age of 14 but he shot his friend/lover to death when discovering that the guy was a pedophile. (Now is this case, the guy is my hero because his father was a wife beater and I don’t like pedophiles.) Two gun deaths didn’t sit well with the judge.

          What is the answer for people who just don’t want to die in a driveby shooting?

        • Phil Knowles

          so basically you’re saying that for those that don’t have proper training, ones with criminal behavior, etc., everyone should pay for their mistakes. It’s sounds like a cop out to me. Your points are very valid. But, you’ve probably heard this before, car accidents, ban cars because some can’t drive. No one would even think of banning cars or beer because of the drunk driving accidents. Nope, just guns. Really bad. Drunk Driving kills more than guns have. Another thing…don’t watch the news. They have their own devious agenda.

          As for your experiences, where do you live? Have these individuals been through any safety? And why not report the lives saved do to carry holders? You can’t say that about drunk driving.

        • Ronnie Elliott

          GEEEES LADY you always seem to see all the bad things and only listen to the NEWS about what they want YOU to see and keep YOU scared,So where were the Great Police during all these?Having a jelly doonut with YOU,watching these news propaganda stories They want everyone to see about guns killing kids when it wasn’t the guns fault and Decent people aren’t the ones doing all that crazy stuff anyhow! So lets go back a step there,Hmmmmmmmmm lets see it could be the Liquor industries fault or the Crack that they were doing fault,which let me see now the Liquor ind.was once illegal kinda like Hemp is Now But it is legal to drink and get drunk and stupid on it,you can also die from liver cancer from it,there are idiots that drink it and drive cars & trucks and kill KIDS also.Hmmmmm.Ok world lets band that Liquor Now. And put hemp back in instead of liquor.So just like they took the farmers &all citizens rights to Grow GODS seed of the hemp plant and put thousands out of work and cost the us tax payer Billions every year and that waR ON Drugs is as big of a HOAX for GUN LAWS as it was for hemp !the real reason Hemp was band is the big Liquor ind. the Big Chemical Ind. the Med’s Ind. and others Lobbied and got their campaign contributions to change it and payoff their friends to keep it illegal ! Then the Goverment needs to keep everyone thinking it is BAD to Grow and consume this Mean Plant that saves lives,can be used to make over a hundred different things better than the Wood pulp and better fibers than cotton,so that we have to destroy the whole dang world getting woo pulp we have to use so many Chemicals (dnagerious ones) to process either cotton or pulp and then the Ind.’s dump that into our waters supplies killing most every thing that lives in the waters ! We have to Use Gasoline instead of ethenol made from Hemp that is clean burning and doesnt ommit all that toxics that gas does Like CARBON which the goverment is tring to tax us on! So is this the same Goverment that should be able to give us GUN control for Our own good ? YEA RIGHT ! They aren’t worried about US and anything GOOD for US they are concerned for their Big Companies the over 400 of pay them off in campaign funds !They pay off Media that getss all the Liberals worried about GUNS ! they LIE to everyone and tell it is for our good and of course those BRAIN DEAD AND BRAIN WASHED give in and believe their BULL CRAP !YOU AREN’t getting anyone of us to change our minds and we aren’t about to Believe any thing these Socialist .communist,Fascist PIGS SAY !

      • Brian Rawls

        Would you rather have had them all hang themselves.

        • Margie Adam

          Well, another friend’s daughter did just that but at least that family didn’t have to have a “CLOSED CASKET” funeral.

          The friend whose son blew his own head off over a failed highschool romance didn’t look as good in his casket so they just closed the lid.

        • Brian Rawls

          Well I guess we need to ban rope now huh? Who gives a shit Margie. People die, its a part of life people have to deal with.

        • Margie Adam

          EARTH TO BRIAN – I repeat — I WANT you to have your guns. What I would prefer is that the possession of a gun does not preclude a reasonable attitude towards your fellow man.

          What I am saying is that teenage boys LOVE guns too. When they are in the house, boys will find them. ACCIDENTS happen. If I had a gun, my husband would now be dead because on more than one occassion I was so mad at him that I would as soon have shot him as have looked at him. My question to all of you is why all of you with guns are not out there doing community service WITH YOUR GUNS to protect the average citizen against the NUTCASES who are also out there with their loaded guns????????

        • Brian Rawls

          Margie, what in the hell does that mean? You think we should run out and kill criminals? That is not a wise thing to do, you see Margie liberals like yourself have passed so many laws and rules that protect the criminals. Just like they have to pass harder gun control. Im sorry for being nasty to you, after I had a time to calm down I realized that I had made the wrong choice. I hope you can please forgive me.

        • Brian Rawls

          I do not like the idea of the government trying to tell me whats in my best interest.

      • Ronnie Elliott

        LOL Now YOU are mispelling too Margie Adams LOL

        • Ronnie Elliott

          AGAIN MARGIE! if they had of traind those teenage boys in the use and safty they wouldn’t have done that,back Years ago they use to let ya bring a gun to school and practice in the basement of the gym with them they had all sorts of programs in the boy scouts to teach it,in Schools MARGE !So what happened? OH they took the TEN COMMANDMENTS out of schools they band guns and teaching of safty and REMEMBER Marge I am an Old Man LOL I remember these things.Then lest see they promote most anything Spiritualy Bad,want GOD off the money off the Constitution and out of schools,cannt pray to God but have their Karen to teach with !Promote Killing newborns with abortion !Kill old folks with, their Health care Plan,Support Gay marriages.Oh did I miss anything here Guys?See although YOU may actually be a LIBERAL if you aren’t instead of one of Obamas Snitches,and YOU may be a wonderful person at heart But My Dear YOU ARE BY FAR Either BLIND OR IGNORANT as Crap no to see the REAL PROBLEMS !

      • DaveH

        Damn Margie,
        You must have one violent set of friends and family. Do you really think banning guns is going to solve that? And wow, I am shocked by your lack of sympathy for the victims. So, anyone that disagrees with you is better off dead? Glad I don’t know you personally.

    • Ronnie Elliott

      Yea right and because some liberal congress has passed the other laws and gotten away with it they think they can just keep on and on,till they take them all!So we Need to make some new Laws about Making changes to our BILL OF RIGHTS !That Only we the PEOPLE AS A WHOLE can either give up something or not !AS A WHOLE is what is the LAW if YOU think about it !Why have a jury if the majority could hang someone? No it has to be all of them to say GUILTY ! or YOU walk !Then so must all of our rights ! This is not a Demoracy and the word was not even put into the Constitution or any of it for that reason! A democracy can get the majority to rule !Just like what they have been doing thats what is WRONG with Goverment already ! THIS A REPUBLIC which is By the LAW !Which is OUR Constitution & Decloration of Independance ! Follow it and YOU want have these problems !Stop the Majority Vote winning any acts in the Goverment ! It is ALL or None must not ever be the way they are doing it either ! It’s alright for We the People to vote on Presidents and and other goverment officals,that is different !Yet we must know that they aren’t going to be trying to be Dicatators when they get in office and change our LAWS as they are already written !So when we do finally get this Group of IDIOTS out ,we need to Have More checks and Balances to keep this from EVER Happening Again !When any one is in this type of Job and are employed by We the People they need to have mental checks,lie detector test given,Signed Policy agreements that if caught breaking these Laws they will be in Prison for many yrs. Then ENFORCE these LAWS ! So that NONE are Above the LAW !Like so many seem to think they are already !Our Military is suppose to Protect us From all dangers Either foriegn or Domestic,Which They Need to do More at Our Orders Not the Goverments Illegal Laws that over ride the Constitution Like THE PATRIOT ACT & HOMELAND SECURITY !Which is making them a Dicatator !Which gives them the right to by-pass Congress ! ILLEGAL & WRONG ! HAVE IT REPEALED and Abolish all the things it does !ONCE we Stop these things and make these changes and ENFORCE THEM ! We will start to recover from the damages they have done Dang This is a good Idea bet I might get reported for this !They want like me and these kind of Changes !Yet this IS what it is going to take to stop all these IDIOTS ( RICH SNOBS )the SHADOW GOVERMENT !Stop them & rebuild AMERICA like it was meant to be PEOPLE ! If YOU dont like AMERICA with the LAWS we have go to another Country It’s YOUR right we want Stop YOU !Yet we WILL STOP THIS Goverment Wrong Doings ! We will With the Help of a UNITED AMERICA not one like what they want,fighting amoung ourselves !Over stupid things like gun Control ! Its Our right and Leave it the Hell ALONE !AMERICA LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT ! DONT CHANGE IT WE LIKE THE WAY IT is Suppose to WORK ! Any Hoo Just thinking Out Loud LOL!

  • Robin from Indiana

    “Instead, the hard facts demonstrate that concealed handgun permit holders don’t prevent mass shootings, they perpetrate them,” she adds.
    Ms. Rand cannot be serious! I, for one, would like to know where this information came from! I do not believe that law-abiding citizens with conceal permits are the perpetrators in mass shootings in most cases. Wow! They just say what they want, without facts and figures to back them up and we are expected to either believe it or ignore it.

    • Jerry Semenick

      ignore it

  • Okfoz

    If you take away guns from GOOD people you place control in the bad peoples hand without a means of recourse. Look at the problems they have in Australia now that they have taken away the guns, crime is up. So what we should do is give guns to everyone, it should be a right, like they are trying to do to health care. If we did this I can guarantee that death from lead poisoning would decline. If you knew that you were walking into a gym that you knew that everyone was packing heat, would you start firing? Heck you would end up dead before you got too many shots off…

    • DaveH

      Okfoz,
      The Australian gun-confiscation proponents argue that the crime wave was already increasing at the same rate before the laws were passed. Maybe, but even if so, then taking the guns away didn’t reduce the rate of increase of crime. So, the gun confiscation laws were ineffective at best.

    • Cathy

      Ha, and I’ve read that the Australian politicians are “scratching their heads,” wondering why the crime rate has gone up since they took the guns away. Duh…

      Guess we’re not the only place that has really STUPID politicians!

      • john

        You are so right. I didnt it could ever happen in this country

      • DaveH

        Cathy,
        They’re not stupid. They’re just looking out for themselves, and holding our security in contempt.

      • Phil Knowles

        You’d think with all of the schooling these politicians have had, they’d be smarter about decisions. Nope, more college doesn’t necessarily mean more brains. Also, before making a decision on something, good or bad, experience it first. For instance, every President should have had military experience. Not some draft dodgers or hippies.

        • Ronnie Elliott

          LOL well they probaly went to schools that didn’t teach about US policies or Goverment,they were taught by their RICH Parents that part so they would be taught to carry on the family traditions of their Nazis Heros,&How to control the people with Brainwashing so they can steal and kill better,and not get locked up for it.Then most were their dads little play toy too, taught them same sex pleasure, and if you do get a girl pregnant have her abort it LOL Taught them to get into the neighbors house and plant bugs and spy on them,LOL.Taught them how to make False Flags seem real!Who would be best to bribe or to take bribes from.Yea they really got a Good Education on Human rights !and how to Pray.When YOU see the apple fall it seems to be right next to the trre that grew it !

    • sisyphus

      An author once said:

      An armed society is a polite society, and those that refuse to learn are soon removed from the gene pool.
      Robert A. Heinlein (c.1950)

      • Margie Adam

        sisyphus, Pete, Dewayne, Jerry, Daniel, Dell, Dave and John:

        Get a grip. We liberals do NOT want to take your guns away. We know they are the love of your life and without them, well, you really wouldn’t have much of a life. What we want is for you to get more guns. We want you to teach your young chlildren to play with them and to keep a loaded one by all your bedsides incase the big black boogey man comes in the night and tries to take your love machine away. Teach your teenagers that they can solve their failed love problems by use of the gun. Teach your wives how to use the gun–they might need it to protect themselves from domestic violence someday.
        Please keep your guns—buy more guns—-use your guns in the home where all good things take place!

        • BH

          Margie Adam, your in need of help, see a doctor!!!

        • Brian Rawls

          Margie, when the government gets the balls to try to take away my right to have firearms. I will deal with as many people like you as I can before I get done in.

        • Margie Adam

          Here I am trying to be supportive and none of you guys appreciate it.
          YEEESH!

        • Margie Adam

          Okay Brian — Again –here is what scares us LIBERALS! I don’t have a gun. I don’t want to take away YOUR gun. But here you are saying you want to go around killing people with your gun because you don’t like the fact that a LIBERAL could be supportive of your right to love your guns. You do not make any sense. So we find you to be FRIGHTENING. Why can’t you say that you want to go around killing terrorists with your gun. NOOOOOO– you want to kill a defenseless old woman who doesn’t have a gun to protect herself.

          You are very confused, Brian. I DON”T WANT to take away your gun. I only want you to stop being paranoid and angry at people who have a job with the government. You know I just hate it when I am trying to get a passport and you can’t get any government worker to answer the phone. I hope it is not because you people who hate government workers might have shot someone!

        • Brian Rawls

          Margie, I am going to help my fellow man. I am going to tell you about a cure for liberalism. All you have to do is put a pistol under your chin and pull the trigger. Yippy skippy you are cured. If that is not helping out my fellow man, I dont know what is.

        • DaveH

          I agree with BH. This woman seems to be inherently violent. And she is doing everything she can to provoke board members. Again, straight out of Saul Alinsky’s book. Just ignore her, she is “astroturf”.

        • Phil

          And when it comes to government workers, either they don’t care because they aren’t being paid correctly, or just incompetent. Either way, the government and all its rules are a joke.

        • Ronnie Elliott

          Well dang she left me out of that one LOL.Well we aren’t the ones that have to worry about our Kids doing stupid crap like those friends of yours we were smart enough and cared enough to Teach our kids Right from Wrong and Gun safety,How to Pray and Trust God,Not let the Goverment tell us we cannt!I was raised b4 these SOCIALIST Pricks and Communist and Fascist took over a Decent Law abiding Country,then these pricks thought of ways to screw up the Kids minds,take away their heritage,send all the drugs in to the cities and get them hooked on Herion and crack,which they even got paid billions to stop the drugs,which they were having the CIA bring in,and making deals with the Drug Cartel to bring in to make even more money,and promote more crime & Evil for our people so they could lock them in these New Prisons run by their Big Corperations,get slave labor and be paid for it By We the Tax payer,which also was and illegal ACT by Goverment and backed up by the Federal Goverment YOU want everyone to Trust !They want every one to believe anyone who stands up for the constitution is a crazy terrorist right winger ! YOU Need to Get a GRIP MARGIE !YOU are the one being Nieve and stupid like they want! We are here wanting a Peaceable solution to their WRONG DOINGS ! THEIR ILLEGAL LAWS THEIR ILLEGAL PRESIDENTS !THEIR ILLEGAL Theif of our TAX,Their Letting the Federal Reserve keep putting out more FIAT MONEY !Plus loosing TRILLIONS and Not being Accountable for it! the Federal Reserve Stopping The Federal Goverment from Auditing Fort KNOX,See they want us to have Idiots like YOU to try and turn us on each other and cause riots and keep our eyes off of what they are really doing ! WAKE THE F UP MARGIE YOU ARE IN LALA LAND !

        • Okfoz

          I suspect your comments come from someone who apparently cannot control themself. As you point out this type of thinking is actually very liberal. I would be very interested to see a comparison of people who consider themself conservative that commit gun crimes verses those who considers themself Liberal and have committed a gun crime. Locally I hardly if ever hear about gun crimes that are committed in the middle class areas of town, that are committed by someone in that area, typically gun crimes are in areas where the people lean toward the poor, and places you do not want to be if you do not wear the right color shirt. I find it really interesting that people in poor neighborhoods, where crime is higher, tend to lean more liberal or Democratic, where the people in upper middle class neighborhoods lean toward conservatism, or even believe in the constitution.

          BTW, you may want to consider psychological counseling, your words are disturbing.

  • DaveH

    Does anyone know the approximate number of people in the United States with concealed carry permits? Seems to me that it would be a million or more. Whatever the number, 7 cases in a little over 2 years is a very small percentage.
    And as John pointed out, killers are criminals. They don’t care if they are breaking the gun laws (duh!). They don’t need concealed carry or any other permission to do their killing.
    What kind of mush-brained people buy into the crap that it will be safer if guns are out-lawed? It would probably be safer for sure for the people in power who want to be able to confiscate our freedom, our money, and other property at will.

    • DaveH

      Thanks Jim,
      After using your link, I found the number (over 6 million permit holders).

      • sisyphus

        Thats .000001%

    • Brian Rawls

      If there were no guns and I needed to kill someone I would use a knife, bat, golf club, car,truck, suv, Garden hose, poison. Push em out a window. The truth be told the government wants slaves. This way they can do what they want and not have to worry about the public. I will die free and not see slavery like the most of you. I hope that these Political figures never let their guard down. Even years after their terms are finished. One day they will be easy to pick off.

      • Brian Rawls

        MOLON LABE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        TILL THE DEATH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • cr747

          Brian, remember: FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS. Charlton Heston: One of our true AMERICANS

      • Margie Adam

        Brian — Read your history books!
        It was never the US government which wanted people to be slaves. Remember it was the US government who fought a war so that people would not have to be slaves. It was government workers (the Union Army) and Abe Lincold who actually freed slaves.

        It was white southern plantation owners and hoodwinked poor southerners who wanted Americans to stay SLAVES.

        Again – the paranoia which you exhibit is frightening. You are so imaginative in your list of ways to “KILL.” How about you give us a list of the various ways in which you could help your fellow man. It is good practice for the soul.

        • DaveH

          Interesting, Margie, that you used the adjective “white” for slaveowners, but not for the people who freed your ancestors. I guess they were all black.

        • Ronnie Elliott

          Oh yea Marge that was way back befor these NAZIS were allowed to even be in this country,and futher more the North also had slaves,and kept them for 20 yrs after the constitution was signed and made them soliders that took care of the White elite and put them in the front lines LOL they would have shot Presidents like the ones we have had in the past 20 yrs or so! they Killed for committing TREASON which these IDIOTS get away with because YOU buch of whimp ass Liberals are afraid of them !Let them brainwash you,commit sins against all Mankind & GOD,Presidents and congress were Christians back then MARGE!NOT TODAY !TODAYS Presidents and Whitehouse members are so far past just being Evil,to be praising the Devil and doing his bidding for him,with Killing babies & old and are pathalogical Liars,narscistic devedants.Still not working MARGE YOU cannt argue for EVIL and have anyone on here agree with YOU !

    • Ronnie Elliott

      Hell they do that with the IRS already LOL

  • Pete Burlington

    A criminal who has already notified society that he or she does not want to conform to societies laws would think twice about using a gun if there more concealed weapons permits issued. These scumbag politicians that want to take our guns will create a lawless society, maybe they should think about that before they institute bad laws. This SOCIALIST COMMUNIST PUKE obama is not going to win this one.

    • Dewayne Merritt in Texas

      Pete all i can say is AMEN to your comment. Obama is like a boss i had one time, if he was patting you on the back with one hand you better look for the other hand because it would have a knife in it.

    • Jerry Semenick

      total agreement

    • Phil

      I’ve heard authority figures as well as lberal politicians who do pack use them in defense, but don’t think it’s right for the American public, aka, average citizens to have one. What gives them the right to being able to carry but not everyone else? Are they going to protect me when someone breaks into my house? I rest assured believe they will not. They are as worthless as the President.

    • Margie Adam

      Pete, Pete, Pete and Phil, Phil, Phil

      Get a grip. President Obama is NOT coming to get your gun! Why is there so much hate amongst gun proponents for the duly elected President of our country. Are you guys so anti-American that you can show NO respect for the office of the President. Or,is it that gun ownership goes along with racism????? I certainly hope not. I really am not understanding why your love of gun ownership has to go along with such paranoia, hate for others, and thoughts that you want to kill everybody who doesn’t have the same opinion as you do. Why isn’t it that gun ownership would foster an idea of helping surround up drug dealers or doing some good for the communities you live in. NOOOOOO it is all about hate speak! That is why you are thought of in the same ilk as the nutcases who go out and shoot up a bunch of defenseless women in an exercise class. The people posting here talk with such hate in the same manner as recent nutcases who have actually gone out and killed people.

      • Ronnie Elliott

        Well sweety we would if He was an UpRight American Citizen instead of a Puppet,a Liar,a Deciever,a Narsistic Idiot,with even a ounce of real American Blood in him !If He had a Real Birthcertificate Like I have,Instead of a A worthless document trying to say it is.If He was really a US citizen why did he pay Hundreds of thousands to keep those documents Sealed from the rest of the world? Here let me give YOU some more Insight on that.
        1. His father was here on a student visa and was never a U. S. citizen.

        2. Hawaii statue 338 allows foreign born children of Hawaii residents to obtain Hawaii Certification of Live Birth (COLB). The short version COLB, that Obama posted on the Internet is a worthless piece of paper, since it does not show any corroborating evidence, such as name of the hospital and name and signature of a doctor, that should be on the actual birth certificate. Obama refuses to release his original birth certificate from Hawaii and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on attorneys to file motions to keep them sealed. His attorneys have been threatening, harassing and intimidated petitioners with sanctions for mere requesting the records. This behavior can be explained only by the fact that the original birth certificate shows him ineligible.

        3. When Obama migrated to Indonesia, he lost his U. S. citizenship, while gaining Indonesian Citizenship, since Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. Obama reaffirmed his Indonesian citizenship and therefore relinquished his U. S. citizenship yet again (if he ever had it) as an adult, while studying at Occidental College and traveling to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport.

        The interviewer asked if Dr. Taitz was afraid to go against such a mountain and so much money. She stated that nothing can be achieved by virtue of fear and was more concerned about a prospect of Obama being allowed to continue to stay in the White House illegally, in that all the orders and bills and international treaties signed by him will be illegal. She also stated, that in her opinion, this is a giant on legs of clay, since his rise was achieved by massive voter fraud during the primaries, the general election and U. S. media providing one sided reporting.

        The BBC interviewers wished Dr. Taitz luck and stated that they are fascinated by the case and asked to come back on the program, when there are new developments.

  • Daniel J. Stamaris Jr.

    Just another case of blaming the instrument used to kill rather than the person. What other items would the gun control mentality eventually want to ban if they were used to commit crime? Just think about it…

    Hand guns
    Rifles
    Shotguns
    Swords
    Knives
    Arrows
    Spears
    Wire
    Rocks
    Plastic bags
    Pillows
    Cement
    Shovels
    Pitch Forks
    Ropes
    Fertililzer

    The forementioned is just a sampling of items that have been used to kill.

    WAKE UP AMERICA!!! THIS ISN’T ABOUT GUN CONTROL; IT’S ABOUT CONTROL, PERIOD.

    • DaveH

      Well stated Daniel.

    • very old dogy

      Good lord man, you left water off your list. How many have been drowned!

    • mr man

      don’t forget drugs

    • Phil

      I agree. It’s about slavery. It’s about greed. It’s about power.

  • John

    It bothers me that they blame the concealed weapon permit holders as a whole for a few bad apples. On this logic we should prevent people from driving because everyone who drives a car is out to run someone over. If you look at research anytime guns are ban crime goes up. Great britain has horrible crime and well as did washington DC during the time of the handgun ban. There is one town in Georgia that requires residents to own a firearm and they have virtually no crime at all. How many murders are there in the U.S. every year? Thousands and you think because 6 people made bad choices it reflects on the group as a whole? How ignorant as that. It’s funny how the people who want to ban guns are the first to call the people with guns. If you look at history the police do NOTHING to stop such mass murders. Most departments are not trained to deal with something of that nature and even the ones who are often times do not get there in time to do anything about it. I’m not saying everyone with a conceal weapons permit should act as a law enforcement officer but I believe if in a defensive situation such as this a person should have the right to defend himself with a firearm. I mean honestly what would you do in the situation? Throw a book at them? Anyone who thinks that will stop the threat obviously knows nothing of self defense or combat. Bottom line is that you can pass all the laws you want but people who want to KILL people really dont care about a silly weapons charge. All a weapons ban will do will open the market for illegal weapons.

    • http://cmblake6.wordpress.com cmblake6

      Si vis pacem, para bellum.

  • dell

    The fact is that the majority of us law abiding gun toting citizens have already been brain washed to some degree. What we need to be asking is ” Why do we need a permit to carry anyways” Most people have accepted carry permits as the norm. This in itself is infringing on my 2nd Amendment right. When permit laws were passed it was a step forward for the antigun legislation as a whole in my opinion

    • DaveH

      I agree Dell.

    • Ronnie Elliott

      yes it was indeed,It says nothing about having a concealed permit in the Constitution!it says My Right to bear arms shall NOT be infringed on by the Goverment ! That is why they put it in the constitution in the first place,Because England and other countries had done it b4 !They were Wise Men indeed and our whole Constitution also doesnt include the word Demoracy be cause that is another type of goverment that never works ! A democracy is the Majority rules !Which is Wrong in its ways!Our Goverment is a REPUBLIC which is by the LAW,remember when the posse would chase the bad guy down and vote to hang him? Well if the sherrif came b4 they did he would stop them and he would have a trial by his piers,and they ALL had to vote Guilty if even One said not guilty he was released !So that alone tells me Not to TRUST Demmocrats LOL !They use the majority rules policy in making their laws and passing illegal ACTS against the PEOPLE !Geeees a Goverment that will lock a man up for growing GOODS seed (Hemp) for 25 years and let a KILLER out in 7 hmmmmmm whats wrong with that picture? No Dont trust them and want as long as they have a Shadow goverment running them and setting policy and law changes.

  • Ed

    Right on! Daniel

  • Kevin

    The second amendment IS my carry permit!!!!!!!!!

    • sisyphus

      So are the 4th, 5th and the 9th.
      They are there to limit govt. not people… Do what is right and respectful of the rights of others, that is all that is reasonable. The rest is socialism.

  • Kevin

    You guys (and gals) mark my words and watch. When this health control bill is passed and it will be regardless if we want it or not, they will come for our guns next. I have already said that when you come for mine, you better bring yours. You all have a great day, be safe, and shoot straight.

  • Dewayne Merritt in Texas

    These anti-gun nut’s don’t realize that the crook’s like people unarmed there called VICTIM’S,and they don’t stop to think that when gun’s are out lawed only the outlaw’s will have gun’s. And if anybody want’s my gun’s,they can have them after they pry my cold dead finger’s from the trigger. The 2nd. Amendment give’s me and you the right to protect ourselve’s. We have a Prisedient who say’s he like’s the Constitution but is doing everything to destroy it. God Bless America and our Troop’s.

    • Jerry Semenick

      destroy it he wants to be the dictator of the U.S.
      all you people that bought his crap and voted him in you will see the foolishness of your ways very soon,the other canidates had to proove they where US. born not obama.(not my president,nor will i call him such)

      • Lindy

        Geez Jerry… are you holding your breath for the next four years too? I got news for you… just because you didn’t vote for the winner doesn’t change the facts… he is YOUR president. Stop acting like a whiny six-year old and at least show some respect for the office. Hannity and O’Reilly and others of their ilk demanded the same during the Bush years… so man-up and show some respect.

        By the way, did you think Sarah Palin being a weak heartbeat away from the Oval Office was a smart vote? Really?

        • jerry semenick

          The last time I checked this was AMERICA. And in America every man woman and child has the right to his or her own thoughts and feelings. It is not a matter of disrespect or being upset about a winner or a loser. And I am not whiny by any means. But, he hasn’t even prooved to me he is qualified to be there,but your right it won’t be long before we don’t have the right to express our own thoughts. And if you like and support him that is your right good luck with that. Just look around you and stop drawing the line in the sand that he deserves my respect because of a postion. People get respect because they are good leaders and deserve it. Exactly what has he done so far to deserve that kind of respect? If you look around things are cchanging and not for the better. More and more of our freedoms are being stripped away and what we should stand by and respect the man not listening to the people he is suppose to be speaking for. He has become the piper. And we are all just suppose to follow everything he thinks….Whats next those who do not follow the piper will be sqaushed and silenced…. Kind of reminds me of someone in history… Remeber concentration camps???? People that did not think the way that man thought and didn’t show respect to him where gathered up and killed. I personally refuse to turn a blind eye and be a sheep hearded to slaughter.

        • BH

          A pig would have been a smart vote compared to Obama

        • Ronnie Elliott

          well Ms Lindsey This should tell YOU he isn’t really a President and all that he is doing is gettin our troops put in the terrorist spot where they are for having an illegal president !Maybe YOU should learn more b4 YOU kiss His butt and Hail him president !
          1. His father was here on a student visa and was never a U. S. citizen.

          2. Hawaii statue 338 allows foreign born children of Hawaii residents to obtain Hawaii Certification of Live Birth (COLB). The short version COLB, that Obama posted on the Internet is a worthless piece of paper, since it does not show any corroborating evidence, such as name of the hospital and name and signature of a doctor, that should be on the actual birth certificate. Obama refuses to release his original birth certificate from Hawaii and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on attorneys to file motions to keep them sealed. His attorneys have been threatening, harassing and intimidated petitioners with sanctions for mere requesting the records. This behavior can be explained only by the fact that the original birth certificate shows him ineligible.

          3. When Obama migrated to Indonesia, he lost his U. S. citizenship, while gaining Indonesian Citizenship, since Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. Obama reaffirmed his Indonesian citizenship and therefore relinquished his U. S. citizenship yet again (if he ever had it) as an adult, while studying at Occidental College and traveling to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport.

          The interviewer asked if Dr. Taitz was afraid to go against such a mountain and so much money. She stated that nothing can be achieved by virtue of fear and was more concerned about a prospect of Obama being allowed to continue to stay in the White House illegally, in that all the orders and bills and international treaties signed by him will be illegal. She also stated, that in her opinion, this is a giant on legs of clay, since his rise was achieved by massive voter fraud during the primaries, the general election and U. S. media providing one sided reporting.

          The BBC interviewers wished Dr. Taitz luck and stated that they are fascinated by the case and asked to come back on the program, when there are new developments.

      • debra

        No Jerry it`s way bigger than that. He already see`s himself as the leader of the world. New world order. Hitler started this way.

  • Greg Craig

    As a former sheriff’s officer my primary function was to ensure a safe and steady flow of traffic. That was on my civil service exam. Although law enforcement tries tries their best to protect people in every aspect of live as well as possible we can’t. Unless each citizen had an officer with them 24/7 they have to depend on themselves for their own safety. Police at best can only be reactive. That is the logic of life. We do not live in Utopia were all is well with everyone we come across. The earth is the Devil’s domain and evil abounds. The Good must live with the Bad nearby and do whatever is necessary for personal survival. Whether you believe in God or not and evil is just an abstract thought evil still is with us none-the-less. We all have an inate right to live free and unmolested as long as we live within the parameters of logic, respect for one another and civil and moral discipline. Firearms are no more than a tool that can be used either by its holder as a survival implement or as a device for destruction. It is the holder who is either good or evil and not the firearm. By taking away firearms the evil will still exist and the good, honest citizen has one less tool to use in the defense of life.

    • http://cmblake6.wordpress.com cmblake6

      Too bloody right. Excellent statement sir.

    • john

      Thank you

    • Phil

      We need more law enforcement like you. You just plain make sense.

  • John

    Greg I agree 100% with your way of thinking.

  • http://cmblake6.wordpress.com cmblake6

    I just got done posting this link, and then I read the comments. On the money, people. Exactly, it’s not about the guns, it’s about the control. An unarmed populace cannot fight oppression. Well, they can, but it’s far more costly.

  • john

    No one wants to ban cars,trucks,plains,etc. they contribute to more deaths than guns.

  • bob

    People find ways to hurt and kill each other. Rocks, sticks, flint, pointed sticks, up to and including nuclear weapons. The CCW permit holders, which do commit crimes are criminals and when found out lose their CCW permit and guns. True law abiding citizens with CCW’s that follow the law do not pose a risk to those around them. Criminals do not follow the law, by definition. Adding new laws that only law abiding citizens follow will do nothing to stop criminals from hurting and killing those around them.

    • john

      You so right

  • john

    another thing THE CONSTITUTION, shouldnt we all protect it. if anyone tries to take away from it this should be considered treason.

  • Tom K

    Is there any law maker with the fortitude to write a law that would outlaw guns without thinking that his/her just signed his/her Death Warrant? It is hard to intimidate an old person in his/her eighties who believes in the Constitution and there are a lot of us old folks close to visiting St. Pete anyway.

  • sisyphus

    “…The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated (USC 12/15/1791)

    The above quote from the 4th Amendment is the reason that gun ownership and possession are necessary, moral and legal.

  • Larry

    The police brought this nut for questioning and released him as not a threat to the public.

  • Josey Wale’s

    The difference between a free man or women and a slave is that a free man or women can defend them selves’ and slave can’t, had this person been surrounded by free men and women instead of slave’s that don’t even know how a debt based monetary system strip’s them of their productive fruits of labor, this person would still be alive. Buy reflecting on history one see’s very few government’s that have any regard for those they rule over. Never assume there aren’t geniuses that are corrupt. The first thing a robber does to his victims is disarm them.

  • Tom Ferrell

    Concealed carry licenses were not granted to stop mass murders, they are there for us to defend ourselves. What they should have reported is there was no concealed carry licensee among the dead and wounded. Had there been, one of them could have taken him out.

    • Ronnie Elliott

      And if there were free people that had the right to bare arms without a permit they wouldn’t be dead either !My right to bear arms doen’t say a permit is needed!

  • Tim

    When the Obama facist regime is attacking Fox and carressing NBC, Fox must be right.

    • Ronnie Elliott

      Yep they are LOL That is why they hate them so much,They have the balls and backing to do it LOL !Three cheers for FOX Turn msn abc nbc and the other Paid for media OFF till they go broke !

  • Kevin

    Ted Kennedys car has killed more people than my gun…….

  • Blair

    They’re called “gun rights”—-not “gun privileges.” The Second Amendment says the
    following in its entirety: “A well-regulated militia being necessary for the defense of a
    free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” Meaning what? We have an implied right to keep and bear arms. Rights, like gun
    rights, can be abused. Am I for gun control? Yes, it’s called common sense. The best
    form of gun control is common sense. Common sense would dictate that people who
    are mentally unfit, and/or have criminal records, SHOULDN’T get guns.Dylan Klebold, and friend, shot up Columbine High School in Colorado, ten years ago this
    April because they found it easy to buy an arsenal of guns. The Virginia Tech shooter was mentally ill and he was able to buy guns over the internet. The recent
    gym shooter in Pennsylvania, also had an arsenal of guns. Should he have had them? No, but it’s not my call. He probably didn’t have a criminal record. So it was
    probably legal for him to have guns.

    • Ronnie Elliott

      yea my gun control is hold my breath,release slowly squeez slowly and Hold the rifle tight!Works best that way LOL

  • JustinCase

    No situation is perfect. Unfortunately, the anti-America gun control enthusiasts will seize any opportunity to further their agenda and they think this is the ticket. Normally, I would go into many levels of statistics to debunk their nonsense, but I’ve learned these anti-gunners are capable of little to no logical reasoning. Even if what’s stated in this article were completely true (and I’m sure there’s more that’s not being said), statistically crime rates where guns and concealed carry are involved is minuscule compared to those without concealed carry. As an old saying goes, never attempt to talk sense to a fool. I’ve never met an anti-gunner that wasn’t one.

  • James

    We need to recall the origin of our Rights. Rob says “the Second Amendment spells out our right to own them [i.e., guns].” Ronnie wrote: “Rights that we WERE GIVEN in the Constitition.” Spatin said “We…have a Constitution[al] right to keep and bear arms.” And Kevin’s: “The second amendment IS my carry permit.”

    The right to bear arms is inalienable (incapable of being surrendered or transferred). Americans had the right before the federal government and the Bill of Rights existed. The right is not dependent on the Second Amendment for its existence. Rights are secured by state constitutions (look yours up). The sole purpose for the Second Amendment was to prevent the national government from infringing on the right. Just as the First Amendment’s “Congress shall make no law respecting…” applies exclusively to the federal government, so, likewise, does the “shall not be infringed” of the Second Amendment.

    Stated otherwise: The Bill of Rights could be repealed with no affect whatever on our rights. (Half of the Founding Fathers didn”t even want to add it – now we are seeing why.) And…NO state law has ever been found violative of the Second Amendment. Think about it!

  • Jamie

    I love guns gunsgunsgunsgunsguns … gotta have my guns gunsgunsgunsgunsguns … eat with my guns … sleep with my guns … poop with my guns …. piss with my guns … all of us need our gunsgunsgunsgunsguns … shoot up the people against gunsgunsgunsgunsguns

    • Jim in Houston

      Such a constructive response!

  • cr747

    Some people just don’t get it: SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS; Ta kara moocha my guns

    • Ronnie Elliott

      NO GOD GIVE RIGHTS THOSE AMENDMENTS are like the ten nots to goverment,YOU can NOT infringe on this and YOU can Not do this or that all our right are GOD GIVEN WE CREATED THE GOVERMENT!Now the Beast wants to overcome the Master !

  • John

    Anti gun activists are ghouls – always trying to benefit from death. The line ” …the hard facts demonstrate that concealed handgun permit holders don’t prevent mass shootings, they perpetrate them..” is particularly disturbing to me on many levels.

    I was not aware that the reason for carrying a concealed firearm was to prevent mass shootings. I don’t carry a gun to go looking for trouble; I carry a gun in case trouble comes looking for me. Our permits do not stipulate that we must patrol the streets. Police do that.

    Of course, the mentally-befuddled anti-gunners will not fess up to the fact that this was a horrible tragedy, and an anomaly within CCW permit holders as a group. As a group, CCW permit holders are very law-abiding and peaceful, and the percentage of them involved in crimes after they got their permit was something like .00275% . I remember that figure from a while back, and I can’t cite a source for that at this moment.

    Anti-gunners are also lazy. They have a social “boot camp” mentality where if one guy screws up, everyone must pay for his transgression. In a civilized society, we punish the criminal, not the citizens who had no part in his criminal actions!

    I don’t know why the sick, twisted comments of the VPC are even published. They are mentally deranged and have nothing productive to add to this tragedy. Their vile comments help no one.

  • http://cfl.rr.com Coming Your way

    Hoplophobia (pronounced /ˌhɒplɵˈfoʊbiə/), from the Greek hoplon, or weapon, is defined as the “fear of firearms”[1] or alternatively, an irrational fear of weapons in general, and describes a specific phobia.Jeff Cooper stated that “the most common manifestation of hoplophobia is the idea that instruments possess a will of their own, apart from that of their user.”

    I believe this describes Jamie and Margie Adam.
    As such, that should be the end of their discussion.

  • cr747

    Att: Ronnie Elliot; YOU CAN BELIEVE IN ONE THING,GOD IS WATCHING. I AM PRAYER COORDINATOR FOR OUR CHURCH, AND I KNOW AND, WE ALL SHOULD KNOW, THAT WITHOUT GOD WE WOULD BE NOTHING. AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THIS COUNTRY NOW. WE HAVE LEFT OUT GOD THAT OUR FOREFATHERS KNEW AND DEPENDED ON.

  • Shirley Grady

    Good reading – Saddam’s Secrets by an Iraqi Pilot. This book parallels our current United States President. Book cover says in
    part “If you thought Saddam Hussein was merely a threat, YOU HAVE
    NO IDEA”. “Plans laid out to Destroy Israel, Hide WMDs and CONTROL
    the Arab World.” Isn’t this “the change” the president based his
    election campaign on?? I can honestly say I did not vote him in!!!
    Amazon carries this book – scarey reading, but a must to see what
    is coming SOON!

    • cr747

      Ms. Grady I believe the same way you do. We haven’t seen anything yet. I sure believe this will be his first and last as president of our United States. Let’s hope people have seen enough, and he will end up like Al Gore, trying to scare every body about our universe and what is going to happen to it. A money maker for Al Gore for his lying speeches he makes at our expense at our colleges.

  • ahuman

    I grew up huntinng but almost got killed as a child by a richoting bullet. I was anti gun until the cops would not protect me. That said, since we cannot regualte guns then it falls upon as all to learn psychology and learn when a person should clearly not be anywhere near a weapon. Period. If we fail to do this then we will suffer the fate that many in Europe did under Hitler. Death by a madman with weapons. I am a gun owner but know some people should not get anywhere near a gun.

  • ahuman

    To CR above, come on how, I am a christian and the latest Mass Shooter and Cho the VA tech shooter were both devout christians. Chos parents tried to have him excorised. HIs mom recently admitted that to a religious newspaper. Sodini belonged to a church that mandated they all be card carying gun toting members. In his vid you can see the bricks of bullets in his home. He had a concealed weapons permit. Religion has nothing to do with it. Mentall issues, and isolation has everything to do with these men who have gone off and killed en masse. Obama is not going to ban guns and apparentl you have not read or heard that this year the supreme ruled on a long standing issue whether or not local govts can regulate guns. The answer was no.

  • Darrel

    Margie, You are some piece of work! We don’t buy anything you say. Here your arrogant self criticizes a little spelling issue and totally miss the point. No surprise you are a lib – you are well trained to overlook and ignore facts. Are you a plant too? Were you one of those “do-gooders” that got assigned to try to upset this site? Well, just pack your keyboard and go home. We are not buying any of it – you are now on the officially ignored list. Clearly from your own admission you are a nut job that would start shooting people if you had a gun. That is just another example of why WE will have a gun – and you should not.

  • Darrel

    Oh look – Margie has called out reinforcements! Jamie is on the scene trying to act like a fool. Probably another nut job plant the left is using to try to discredit an honorable site. Let’s all agree to ignore them both. They don’t represent the rest of us, and certainly don’t represent America.

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