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Will Democrats Booing God Cost Obama The Election?

September 14, 2012 by  

Will Democrats Booing God Cost Obama The Election?
UPI
Political conventions are supposed to be more carefully scripted than a big-budget movie.

What a weird Democratic National Convention! The two most popular speakers by far — Michelle Obama and Bill Clinton — aren’t running for office. And the man who is supposed to be the Master Orator of the 21st Century, Barack Obama, gave one of the flattest, most disappointing talks of his career.

More on that in a moment. First, I’ll discuss what had to be the strangest moment of a very strange convention: The bungled effort to change the Democratic Party platform after it had been approved.

It all began when the people framing the party platform decided to delete all references to God. If allowed to stand, it would have marked the first time the Creator was not acknowledged in the platform of either major political party.

When the omission sparked a ton of media comments and Republican criticism, word came down from high — no, not heaven, but the Obama White House — that the platform had to be amended — immediately.

 

 

Antonio Villaraigosa, the Mayor of Los Angeles, was serving as chairman of the convention when the effort was made to put God back in the platform. He read the new language, then called for a voice vote to approve it. He told the assembled delegates that the change had to be approved by a two-thirds majority.

When he called for the “ayes” and “nays,” he and the assembled multitude got quite a shock. The “ayes” didn’t get anywhere near the two-thirds approval necessary. Many commentators who were there in person thought that the “nays” actually got more votes.

Then Villaraigosa did something that was really stupid. He called for a second voice vote. The same thing happened again. If anything, the “nays” were even louder. Then the poor guy called for a third vote. The shouting got even more boisterous, but the results were the same. If the “nays” weren’t a majority, they sure kept the “ayes” from a two-thirds approval.

At that point, Villaraigosa looked like a deer caught in the headlights. Not knowing what else to do, he declared that the measure had passed, thanked the delegates and banged his gavel.

Officially, God is now in the Democratic platform. But, in fact, His presence there was roundly booed by a heck of a lot of Democrats at their national convention. If the Republicans don’t remind potential voters about this a few hundred times between now and the elections, they’re making a huge mistake.

Political conventions are supposed to be more carefully scripted than a big-budget movie. Every speech is vetted several times (unless you’re Clinton or Clint Eastwood). Every moment is carefully planned — especially those in the prime-time hours on national TV.

So what the heck happened in Charlotte, N.C.? It’s hard to tell who screwed up, but somebody did — big time.

By the way, this wasn’t the only misstep at the Democrats’ gathering. There was another lulu on opening night, when a Hollywood-style video greeted delegates with the news that “government is the only thing we all belong to.” Republicans immediately countered by pointing out that we don’t belong to government; government belongs to us (in theory, at least).

Clinton and Michelle Obama helped the Democrats recover a lot of ground. Although I’m not sure Clinton did the President a favor when he reminded delegates that nobody could have kept all of the promises Obama made four years ago. But no matter; the party faithful love the guy. I’m sure many of them regret he couldn’t duplicate Franklin D. Roosevelt’s record and run for third and fourth terms.

Finally, we got to Thursday night, when it was time for Barack Obama to take center stage. Many people expected him to be as impassioned and inspiring as he was four years ago. By all accounts, he failed decisively. Former Ronald Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan described his speech as “stale and empty.” FOX News commentator Charles Krauthammer agreed, saying it was “one of the emptiest speeches I have ever heard on a national stage.”

But the criticism didn’t come only from the right. Liberal columnist Michael Tomasky, writing in the left-wing Daily Beast, called the President’s speech “dull and pedestrian… with nary an interesting thematic device, policy detail, or even one turn of phrase.” Many of the Democratic commentators on television agreed afterward that the President’s speech left a gigantic “enthusiasm deficit.” Some even admitted that Joe Biden gave a better speech.

So what happens now? If the Republicans are smart, videos of all those angry faces booing God will become as commonplace as Obama’s insulting comment to entrepreneurs that “you didn’t build that.”

Sure, the economy will remain the No. 1 issue in voters’ minds (as it should be). But a heck of a lot of voters cares about values, too. A substantial majority does not like the idea of putting no limits on abortions, demanding that voters pay for them and not notifying parents when a daughter who is a minor wants one.

And in virtually every State where it’s been put on the ballot, including the People’s Republic of California, a majority of voters has declared that marriage is a union of one man and one woman. Make the election about these issues and the Republicans should not only win the White House, they should also keep control of the House and regain a majority in the Senate.

I’m not foolish enough to believe that such electoral victories will lead easily or automatically to fiscal sanity in Washington or end the influence of the empire-builders who think the United States should be the police of the world. The Republicans in the past had a lot of gusto for both guns and butter. They can ladle out the pork just as eagerly as any Democrat.

But let’s never forget that our Founding Fathers wisely put the power of the purse in the House of Representatives. The Constitution insists that every spending bill originate there. If the House won’t approve it, the President can’t spend it. Period.

Yes, there will be some tumultuous times before we finally get government back under control. But come this November, we have an opportunity to take some significant steps in the right direction. Let’s make sure we do so.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    LYING ABOUT WHETHER THE MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS SUPPORT A BELIEF IN RELIGION IS OBVIOUSLY SILLY WHEN PEOPLE LOOK AT THE ACTIONS WITHIN A LIBERAL-THINKING SOCIETY.

    SUNDAY IS ABOUT FOOTBALL, GOLF AND OTHER PLEASURES. IF A SEARCH WARRANT WAS EXECUTED ON MANY LIBERALS’ HOMES A Bible WOULD NOT BE FOUND.

    SO, WHO IS THE REAL FOOL? – Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa AND THE Democratic National Committee COME TO MIND.

    • wandamurline

      I did my really best to watch the DNC, and the first night was all about women’s right to
      m u r d e r their unborn child for whatever reason they might want. It was sooo bad that I looked for them to bring out the stirrups and vacuum cleaners and start the ab or t io n procedure from the platform. The second night, it was about the same….then Slick Willie (he knows all about women’s reproductive bodies…does the word “impeached because he lied to Congress about Monica sound familiar?”)….and he was supposed to have a 20 minute speech, but Clinton just cannot help himself because he has not been in the limelight for over a decade, so he spent 50 minutes really talking about ….. no other than Bill Clinton….then summing up that we need to give Obama another four years, the reasoning, I could not see because we went back to the 1990′s and it was all about HIS presidency, not this one. By the time the DNC was over, I had a very bad headache. I asked myself, is this election about a woman’s v@gin@ or is it about the Americans out of a job and the spending and borrowing of this administration that is sending us off the economical cliff. After watching the DNC, I wasn’t sure anymore….I still think the economy is the top. Obama’s newest word “Forward”, and I am asking myself “to where”….off the cliff?

      • Polski

        you can blame the Catholic church (I was born and raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools where the nuns beat the sh** out of me) for abortion. They constantly said that “even if the woman died, the child comes first”. Of course suicide is a MORTAL SIN, and woman did not want to die in childbirth either so eventually formal abortion rights came about. And nothing has changed. When my wife was told that she needed a hysterectomy, she told the MALE doctor that she’d have a hysterectomy when he had his sexual organ removed and became a eunuch.

      • Linda

        Yes, if you back Obama for another term, it will be down the cliff forever. Sorry but that’s the way it is.
        We have a marxist government, and in 4 more years all we can look forward to is socialist communist, America! Everyone will be dirt poor and we will have very little health care and many many people dying because of Obamacare!

      • MarathonMan

        God is now back in the democrat party for one reason and one reason only ….
        ……………to recapture voters who missed Obamas war on Christians.
        After the election if he wins, the gloves come off and the “War on Christians” will continue as will his poor domestic and foreign policies

      • old hillbilly

        According to John Haggy, 45 million abortions occurred since Rowe v Wade. Placed 3 feet apart (1 stride), that would be 135 million feet of dead infants, or @ 5280 ft/mile it becomes a straight line 25,568 miles long. How close to the moon or how many global laps is that… Guess it would weigh right at 450 million pounds if we used 10 pounds. We need Guinness (???) to come up with an appropriate trophy & record that Obummer could hold up for himself, the seedy reed, pollopsi, washerwoman, & the rest of the dumbocrats!

        What was Hitler’s record – Pol Pot, Mau, Stalin…. don’t think anyone in history wiped that many infants since time one. They can’t get away, fight, or hide… just suck their little brains out like a frog in biology class.

        Call the sick bastards what they are – killers of the sickest form of perversion!

      • Christin

        I agree, Wandamurline.

        I watched all of the RNC and T R I E D to watch some of the DNC.

        The DNC was SO boring and full of lies. My spouse said the DNC speakers all look and sound very angry… their common thread to bash Romney, Republicans, and promote condoms and abortions for women… who already have access to all these things. But I was absolutely shocked to see the Democratic Delegates boo returning ‘God’ and Jerusalem as the Capital city of Israel to their platform (as the video shows). By the way, Chip, they left out TWO more things from their platform as well (surprised you missed this Chip Woods): one being language about Hamas not being referred to a Terrorist group any more… interesting, huh!?

        The DNC (speakers) was so opposite of the RNC.

        The RNC was patriotic and humble. The speakers spoke well of others, smiled, were very transparent telling their own life stories and humble beginnings and trials in life (not hiding their births, status and schooling like BHO $2 million). They showed that they were ALL inclusive with race, religion, and gender of people. The prayers were spiritual and spoke about God and I felt like I had gone to church all week! They spoke of smaller gov BY THE PEOPLE and used BHO’s own words to show you his 3rd world America. They wished all who were ‘not better off’ to join them to restore America by reducing taxes, business regulations, stop spending and borrowing, and being energy independent in coal, oil and gas to make and bring JOBS here at HOME again.

        The video is ALL TELLING… They don’t want to acknowledge God (or Israel as an Ally)… who could vote for that DEMON party platform??

        Chip: “Will Democrats Booing Cost Obama the Election?… I certainly HOPE so!

      • DaveH

        They have access to condoms and abortions, Christin, but they want other people to pay for them.

      • Christin

        Dave H,

        If the Majority of People in America will not take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY …then “we WILL fall off the economical cliff” that Wanda mentioned above.

      • Smilee

        wandamurline says:
        September 14, 2012 at 8:03 am

        . The second night, it was about the same….then Slick Willie (he knows all about women’s reproductive bodies…does the word “impeached because he lied to Congress about Monica sound familiar?”)…

        OOP!! Congress never questioned Slick Willie so how could he have lied to them. He was acquitted in the impeachment trial and never charged in criminal court so the operative word here is alleged by republicans to have lied then not charged by any criminal court anywhere. In other words anyone who counts concluded the republicans lied as they could not able to prove Slick Willie did but said they could..

      • DaveH

        You’re equivocating, Smilee, and you know it.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton

      • Nick Czudy

        I for one wish that God would have been removed from our government. If I hear another “God Bless America” I will puke. Not everyone believes in God or some form of religion.
        Many Americans make fun of Muslims and their views, (70 virgins in heaven for martyrs etc.) But if you listen to American bible thumping religious zealots (bless the portico’s in Obama’s Inauguration), they are not far from being put in the same category as we put the Muslims.
        Can we keep religion personal and not try to put it into the Government? I will never criticize anyone believing what ever they want, but I would rather that you do not try and push it on other people in public institutions.
        For all of the calls of the far right to decrease the size of government, there seems to be a big desire to stick their noses into women’s vaginas and control their bodies. I wonder how many of you, if your wives or daughters were raped and got pregnant (lets even make it worse, it was a negro), how quickly you would opt for an abortion. Come on. be truthful. You can be hypocrites if no one is looking.
        Less government means less trying to push your views on others.

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          Nick: People will be debating religion and abortion for decades. The economy is a much more urgent matter to resolve. I paid $3.99 per pound for Honey Crisp apples in Florida yesterday. Last year they were $1.99 per pound. Food and fuel prices have skyrocketed in the last four years. Inflation is a tax that most people don’t talk about, but it affects everyone. It is caused by quantitative easing (printing money), and will only get worse if we get four more years of Obama. I’m convinced that he is more interested in expanding his voter base than solving our economic problems. I fear that four more years of Obama will result in total economic collapse.

          • Nick Czudy

            HI Mike. I agree with you that the debate on Religion and abortion will continue for a long time. Yes the cost of commodities does go up. But this time, it has not been as a result of inflation. This recession has been so bad, that there has not been any inflation. Look to the interest rate being paid on US bonds and the world is still wanting to buy US backed securities. This even with a lowering of your credit rating. Part of this has to do with the stability that has been shown by the Obama administration. They trust him.

            A lot of the high cost of many commodities are as a result of business and private industry taking advantage of the American people. Look at the oil and gas industry. Exxon, Mobil and BP have been making record profits. They raise the cost of gasoline every time there is a storm, whether they have actually had any damage or problems. They raise the prices when ever there is conflict in the mid-east whether there was actually any issue that affected their costs. They have the population conditioned over the ages and they can get away with it. The president and congress, have no control on this. But the industry pays so much lobbying into the GOP coffers and the corresponding legislators to keep the status quo. Why do you think that they fight so hard to keep the existing free enterprise with minimal regulations? Think about it.

            The same explanation goes into the Health Industry. There is a huge level of HMO executives and wealthy owners that are taking a huge chunk out of the health costs as profit, and making a lot of money out of it. They also pay tons into the GOP coffers to keep the status quo. Why do you think that they fight so hard to keep the existing system?. They get huge sums of money from the industry to keep it going.

            Why do you think that the GOP mantra is to abolish Obama-care? It is in their best interests to maintain the Medical industry as is, so that the HMO’s and their owners will keep making a huge profits. Obama-care will reduce this profit to save the American people money. That is why the USA medical costs per capita are double what the rest of the western nations pay. So a big chunk of the American bread winners budget is going to fuel the excessive profits of these large corporations and wall street.
            The very best thing, even better than Obama-Care would be a single payer system like what is being done in all of the other western countries. This is one place that having private business running things is not better than a government bureaucrat. For example. Have you looked at a recent medical invoice. Absolutely everything is charged to the patient. If a nurse uses a tongue depressor or a pair of latex gloves it is charged for. The typical charge is about $8.00 to $12.00 per pair. The cost to the hospital is about $8.00 to $12.00 for a box of 100 pairs. The markup is profit to the system. You are paying for that. Multiply this markup to every item on a hospital invoice and you end up with a hugely inflated hospital bill. Then when you really get sick, they will limit the amount of your coverage or boot you off completely. Would you rather have the executive of the HMO deciding on your medical care, (Thinking of their profit) or a government bureaucrat or your doctor making the decision on your treatment? it is a no brain er to me. So even though we have been in a recession. the private enterprise has been making more profits than ever before. That is the reason the prices are going up. We have not had inflation yet because of the FED printing money. This is the time to print money to invest in infrastructure to help boost the economy, when the rates are so low and there is a ready supply of people to buy the US securities. Then when the economy is back on its feet, then it is the time for austerity and the increased tax revenue will be able to make a push to repay the debt. Not now as Europe has done and have pushed themselves into a double dip recession.
            Romney’s plan is to reduce the taxes on the wealthy and increase the taxes on the middle class. Over the last 8 years the amount of money and profit for the wealthy has increased immensely while the middle class has been level or actually reduced. This will increase the deficit and reduce the number of jobs. The extra profit that the wealthy make will go off shore and not have much of a factor to increase jobs. Putting more money into the hands of the middle class will cause all of that money to be reinvested or spent in the USA and and increasing demand. that is the direction that the USA is taking now.
            Again keep God out of government.

          • Frank Kahn

            Let me just say that a person is always limited in knowledge to that which he or she can find in the form of facts. While I might admit that my source for facts is not perfect, I will also say that your source is flawed.

            The last report I read, concerning the latest battle over tax breaks, was dealing with the republicans refusing to pass an extension on the Bush tax cuts if the upper 1% were excluded from the bill. Now I am not saying my source is 100% accurate but assuming it is, Obama claiming that the republicans want to increase the taxes on the lower and middle class is a LIE. What was reported as the issue was that they wanted to extend the tax cuts for everyone, not just the lower and middle class. By using inverse logic you could hypothesize that Obama wants to increase the taxes on all the citizens because he wont allow an extension on the tax cuts without excluding the wealthy. That would also be a lie as it uses false logic.

            Now I am not an expert on the level of taxation over the last 100 years, I would bet even money that you are not either. So to enter into an arguement over historical tax rates would be senseless for us.

            Now we get to your statement about the middle class. You said that if we reduce their taxes wherein they will get more profit IT WILL ALL BE USED TO CREATE NEW JOBS. As opposed to the profit of the wealthy that will NEVER BE REINVESTED FOR MAKING MORE JOBS. I will contest a couple points in those two statements. First, who told you, where did you get the facts, how did you decide that all middle class people are business owners? The top management of the post office get huge million dollar bonuses and they are not business owners. There are many professions that have annual salaries in excess of $250,000 a year that are mere workers and not business owners. In theory, my profession (software engineer) has the possiblilty of 300K a year salary if the economy was healthy. Second, assuming that you are not a mind reader or even psychic who can see that all business owning middle class citizens will reinvest all their new profit to create new jobs; how did you decide that IT WILL ALL BE USED TO CREATE NEW JOBS? Who told you that the wealthy will never use their profits to create new jobs?

            Now I have concluded, through analysis of the items I have posed above, that your two statements are at best an opinion and probably down right erronious.

            If you had said that current statistics shows that the wealthy are not re-investing a significant portion of their companies profit into new job creation, I would agree that you might have a basis for your statement. I might even go so far as to say that the profit margin suggests that they are over charging for their products and / or services.

            If you had said that there is statistical information showing that middle class business owners re-invest a higher percentage of their profits than wealthy business owners I would agree that there might be information to support that idea.

            To imply that all middle class citizens are business owners and therefor capable of creating more new jobs with an increase in their income is just WRONG. Can’t even classify that as an opinion.

            I have some reservations about your assertion that we dont yet have inflation occuring. Where do you live? My cost of living has risen sharply in the last two years. Have you seen the price of a large jar of peanut butter, from about $5 to almost $10 a jar. That happened just a couple months ago. The price of gas and deisle has gone up more than 80% and when the cost of fuel goes up the price of products distributed by sources that use fuel goes up to cover the cost.

            As with any reasonable conversation, I am willing to hear what information you have to support your statements in a way to help me see that my view is somehow incorrect.

          • Nick Czudy

            reply to Frank Kahn. It was interesting to read your comments. When I was speaking about the middle class, I will use the arbitrary level of $100,000.00 per family of less. I was not speaking about small business owners making $250,000.00 or there a bouts.
            Maybe you feel at the $250,000.00 level, that you also have little left, after all of your daily expenses and future savings for college for kids, etc. But most people in the US would feel that they could live very well on that amount of income. Many families in the US make less than $40,000.00 per year. Imagine how they struggle to pay their bills and to get ahead. All of the money that comes into their reach gets spent. There is none that is held or put out of circulation. It all gets used. It all goes back into the economy.

            It was not that middle class business’s would reinvest more money than larger corporations. It is that the middle class as I have defined them, need all of the money that they make to pay bills and to survive. They have little money left over after paying for medical insurance, rent, heat, car expenses, phone, etc. All of the money that they make is recirculated into the economy. They do not have any left to invest, for example into foreign companies, and to put into Swiss bank accounts. All of the middle classes money gets recirculated. This increases demand, which increases the need for more employees for all business sectors.
            What the trickle down economics of Gov. Romney proposes, is that if you give a tax break to the wealthy, they in turn will re-invest and create more jobs. That is what the Bush government tried for many years. It is a known fact from all economists that US corporations are sitting of around 20 Trillion dollars of income that they are sitting on. I instead of hiring people they are investing these funds off shore and putting them in off shore banks. Take Gov. Romney. Most of his money is not in the USA. It is not being used to consume and stimulate the economy. So the solution is take more tax dollars from the top 1% . economic reports have shown that in the last 12 years, that the top 2% of the income earners own 22% of the wealth. This has increased from the previous period. So the wealthy are doing just fine. In face during this recession, many have increased their wealth. It is a known fact that the middle class have been flat or even have had reduced income. What Gov. Romney’s economic plan is to gut the breaks that are used by the middle class which will in fact take about $2000.00 per family out of their pockets and transfer this to the top 1%. If congress would have given the US people some sense of trying to increase the creation of jobs, maybe some of the Corporations would reinvest their money and start creating jobs. But the extreme right wing of the GOP has been stone walling any effort to get the economy going. They would rather see the Obama government fail than to help the US economy. In some countries these people would be hanged for treason. Instead, the USA is paying them for sabotaging the country.
            The deficit and debt is huge, but not out of control, during a time when austerity will cause another dip in the recession and therefore a larger deficit. Extreme actions both in spending and also in austerity will precipitate a depression. What is needed is a slow and calm amount of careful spending to stimulate the economy and get it going. Nothing drastic but slow and calculated. Europe tried the abrupt cutting of spending and they are headed into another recession. The USA is doing better, mostly because of the spending that has taken place in the last 4 years. If Obama did not do the stimulus plan, then the USA would be in the same boat as Europe.
            So it is not a lie that Gov. Romney wants to raise the taxes on the middle class, is not a lie. The mantra for the Grover Norquest GOP is that taxes are not to be increased. But the same effect is taking away social services and tax deductions that the middle income need to pay lower taxes. For example the interest on your mortgage. Think of your own situation. If you cannot deduct your interest against your income, will you have to pay more taxes? Call it what you want, but it is a tax increase. This deduction is a small part of the deductions that are used by the top 1%. this is one example. the Ryan plan plans to cut the deficit by gutting many of the programs that allow the middle class to survive. It will have negligible impact on the lives of the 1%. We need to take back some of the wealth from the top 1% and put it back into the middle class and therefore all of that money will get redistributed into the economy, therefore lifting the economy. that is the way to stimulate a rebound to the economy. When the corporations see that the middle class are spending more money, they will expand and hire more people. That means more taxes will be paid and that will reduce the deficit.
            Not is the interest rates were high. I remember once when I had a mortgage and the rates rose to 18%. That was unbearable. the interest rates are around 1% and now is the time for the USA to leverage the desire of the world to still give the USA their money because they feel safe with the Obama government. The USA should use this to built up the infrastructure. Repair roads and bridges and other projects to help rebuild America. I have recently been in China and there are more construction projects in one city that in all of the USA. They all have shiny new subways, and roads and everybody is working. USA needs to invest in the infrastructure and now is the time to invest while the interest rates are low and the world is still giving the USA their money. If Gov. Romney wins and implements his policies, this will stop. There will be a stop of investment in to the USA. He does too much blustering and it will make the USA more erratic. This will raise the interest rates. this will increase the deficit and spiral the USA into another recession. That is the best that I can describe the current political situation.
            To summarize, what I see as the general trend with the GOP policies is that they want to keep the profit and the control in the hands of the 1%. They want the status quo with the health system. they want the HMO execs to still make huge profits, they want the oil companies to keep making a fortune. They want the top 1% to own a larger part of the total wealth and to take it from the middle and lower classes. It is quite clear.
            This is not a true democracy. You would do better with Obama.
            Just my humble opinion. Best regards. Nick Czudy

          • Frank Kahn

            Lets start by clearing up some terms we use here. I used $250,000 pen annum income as middle class because that is the number I hear bantied about by the politicians. If you want to use $100,000 as a reference point that is fine with me. I did not discuss things based on any political ideologies or policies stated by any politician. I challenged your statements based on what you said.

            Since you have focussed your reply on just income to expenditure of citizens in the 100K income bracket, I will continue with that premise.

            First of all, the most important question to be answered needs to be where do you live? The cost of living in a small rural town is much lower than it is in say New York city or Los Angeles. Property values alone in large metropolitan areas is astronomical. So to lump all citizens into your struggling to survive at say 30K per year is not necessarily accurate in all cases.

            Before I continue I would like to point out that I have, in previous posts, called the $250K income people rich. Where I live in the NW a person can pay all his/her living necessity cost for about 12 to 15K a year. Now adding a new car on credit will possibly increase that amount by 4 to 10K a year but that is not a necessity. I am basing my numbers on a single person household so you need to raise the cost for things like food and clothing based on additional members of a family. In this cost analysis, a person making $100K has a very large discretionary cash availability. Like I mentioned before, the discretionary cash would be severly reduced if not non-existent if the person was living in a large metropolitan area. I have left out the cost of medical care, be it actual cost or that of insurance, because a normally healthy person does not have a high yearly need for health care. Lumping all citizens into a category of high cost needs there, by using extreme examples of health problems, is unrealistic.

            So the entire arguement here is dependent on the cost of living of an individual predicated on his or her selection of living locations. That item opens up a whole new group of points of contention that I dont feel the need to cover at this time.

            So for the sake of argument here lets say that 100K is middle class in my selected location and 250K is middle class in a higher cost of living location.

            I cannot say the exact amount of taxes any given tax bracket pays today and I dont agree with anyone who just lists state and federal income tax as the total percentage. I can remember in 2009 the total deductions of my paycheck equaled approximately 25%. This incuded everything from taxes to SS and medicare and whatever they want to call it. At that time I was making 50K so my total deductions was 12,500. If you reduced my federal income tax by 5% it would have saved me 2,500, or roughly 200 a month. Just as a side note, the talking heads in the current administration say the lower class would save 2,000 on average from this tax cut which is preposterous considering they dont make 50K a year to start with. More on taxes, depending on the state you live in, there is the additional sales tax which you pay on almost everything you purchase. You also have gasoline, property, car registration and many other taxes you pay daily.

            Now I have set a value to my savings, which I can now use to buy new goods and services which will, presumably create more jobs through the demand side of economics. Since you declared 100K to be the middle class lets double my windfall to 5K. Here we have to jump into complex economic theories and or beliefs.

            Lets say I am a smart person who plans for my future. What will I do with an additional 5K a year? I decide to invest in my future and save it. Oh crap, now the bank has my money and they will use it to increase their corporate profits which does not improve the economy. Or, I invest in stocks. Oops, same problem there, no increased productivity from buying stocks in a company that only gives them more money to hoard.

            Even if I spend it on products and services there is a question about it creating new jobs. If a company sells more products it makes more money which everyone knows just goes into their bank accounts to make them more wealthy. It is in their best financial interests to keep the cost of production to a minimum to maximize profits. And, historically when demand goes up the price follows causing inflation which takes away the purchasing power of the money that caused it.

            This is the major flaw in our capitalistic economy right now. We have priced ourselves out of competition. We wanted to make more money. Well when the companies have to pay its workers more they have to charge more for their products to keep their profits up.

            Now as to the circulation of capital in the U.S.. If you look at the made in on products now days what do you see? Made in China. So who is profiting from our increased purchasing power, what country gets increased job creation? How does this increase the tax revenue base in our country?

            Yes, economic change and growth is a slow process. Making any knee jerk reaction will not help and probably hurt it. We need to stop looking at what is an acceptable wage and start pushing for a reasonable wage. Money does not seek its own moderation, it seeks its greatest potential.

            Inflation is a circular process, the more it cost the more we need to earn, the more we earn the more it costs. In this process it is not the government that is the cause but the people. Since the government is not the cause it cannot be the cure. As long as we the people insist that we deserve to be paid such a high rate so we can have every luxury imaginable the cycle will continue. It is human greed that fuels this folly.

            On that point, NO, stimulus spending of tax payer money does nothing to solve the problem. The policies of stimulus, in the main part, was to shore up big business. Who does that help? Does it help the poor taxpayer who funded it?

            The nations deficit is the fault of the government and not from income tax policies. Spending is out of control, we give billions of dollars in aid to other countries and ignore the needs of our own citizens. We give free trade agreements to countries which greatly reduces or eliminates import tax revenues from their products.

            Considering that China produces almost everything we consume, and it is all imported into our country, how much tax revenue is lost when our government says “hey no problem you dont have to pay any import tax on that.”?

            Why is everything manufactured in China? Well that is caused by American greed. We want to make big bucks and pay the lowest possible prices on things. We get our raises but it makes it too expensive to produce in this country. The workers in China work for practically nothing compared to us so they can produce things cheaply.

            Yes, fixing our economy is a slow process and it will take painfull sacrifices by all citizens not, just the top 1%. Trying to fix it (as Obama says) by helping the middle class have more money willl not work. Nor, will (as Obama says) taxing the wealthy work. It is not about taxation or making more money that will help. It is coming back to a realistic pay for services actually rendered philosophy that is needed.

            This also touches on the idiotic idea of Unions being benneficial to our economy. If it is true that a Union shop is paid more than a non-union shop, is that because of productivity or greed? Is a non-union worker to be looked upon as being cheated out of the money he/she righfully deserves because a union forces another shop to pay more? Do unions, by way of demanding more wages and bennifits, cause the price of products and services to increase?

            What happened to the idea of a living wage? Is it appropriate for the wealthy and middle class to enjoy such high rates of income at the cost of the poor suffering?

            Should government regulations try to limit profits by large corporations? Should a large corporation be required to hire 10% more workers for every 1% increase in profit margin?

            Is there a simple solution to the economy, NO. Is the current administrations stated ideas the right way to fix the economy, NO. Will Romney implement policies that will fix it, NO.

            Our government needs to get its spending under control (reduce and eliminate deficit spending). It also needs to start charging import taxes and tarrifs on products brought into our country. It needs to foster the idea of a, private sector, oversight body to help self regulate businesses in this country without government interferrence.

            And please forgive me if I remember this wrong but I seem to remember you making a statement about this not even being close to a democracy. Well, I certainly hope you are right since we are supposed to be a republic not a democracy. Individual rights and freedoms are more important than the desires of the majority.

          • Nick Czudy

            Hello Frank. I just read your comments. I have to say that I agree with 90% of what you say,. As to what is a living wage, of coarse varies all over the country. A grisly Adams type of person, could survive in the woods for very little. Just s little money for bullets, whiskey and some staples. He will be able to survive for very little. Take a small town, they will have city or county taxes, school taxes, road repairs. mortgage interest, house repairs and etc. their costs will be much higher. Now lets move into Manhattan and for them, rent or fees of $10,000 to $100,000 per month is normal.
            But the point is that this figure is different for all people. The “American Dream” does not mean that all Americans want to have multiple mansions, and sports cars and islands in the Carri-bean. it might just be that a family wants a small bungalow for his family, food on the table and two weeks holiday a year with money to pay for gas and some entertainment. this amount varies for all people. We all do not need to be greedy to want to be millionaires. This can never happen.
            The problem is that many wealthy have abused others to make their wealth.
            Look at Enron, the Wall Street banks, and BP polluting the Gulf. For some to make more money, there is someone at the other end that loses.
            When the teachers unions in Chicago get a raise in pay, the citizens will have an increase in their taxes. The teachers, civil servants, etc. win and the rest of the citizens will lose. What if that home owner lost his job? Now that increase in taxes is not just a small trivial matter. It is another nail in his coffin that might cause him to default on his taxes and not be able to pay his mortgage. While will the teachers at $94,000 per year be really that put out if they held on for a few more years, until the economy gets back on its feet?

            See my rather long reply to “Jo_Anne Aaron as to some of the viewpoints that I made with you. I will not repeat it here.

            I will admit that I live in Ontario, Canada. This US election and economy has been of top importance to me, because what happens to the USA will affect us here. The medical expenses that you pay there are so obscene to us here in Canada. We get 2.5 % to 5% deducted from out pay checks along with UI (Unemployment Security, Canada Pension and healthcare. If you do not have a certain wage, these deductions are less. If you make no money the services are still available to you. This is called the single payer system. It is adopted by the rest of the top G20 countries in the world, except the USA. Your system is based on private ownership of the hospitals and insurance companies. The great free enterprise system of the USA allows these owners to charge what ever they can get away with. It is especially aggrregish when some one, with a severe sickness, like a cancer patient, loses all of their assets, to pay the profit to these free enterprise businesses. That is why your healthcare is double what the rest of the civilized world pays. That is why your health costs are so expensive. I feel that healthcare and education should be paid by the government at cost for everyone. So when your hospital uses a 5 cent tongue depressor in your care, you will be charged $12.00 for it. That is why your medical costs are so high. Our health system pays 5 cents for that tongue depressor. It is at cost, not the profit of the HMO’s. Then you also include the insurance companies in the middle to gobble up even a larger chunk for profit. I am sorry but you are all insane to defend this health system.
            Now I understand why many politicians do defend it. Those wealthy HMO’s spend millions in lobbyists to pay off the politicians to keep this free enterprise industry. That is criminal. In this country we call this bribery. Our politicians are prosecuted if they take bribes.
            Last year I lived in China for 4 months. I visited over 36 factories. The average wage for a factory worker is about RMB 3500 per month. This is about $600.00 per month. For this they will be able to pay for rent, food, and a little money left over to send home to their parents in the country. This is a real bare bones existence, but they are able to survive because of the other costs in daily life is much lower. Many are satisfied in life.
            I can have a cheap meal in a restaurant for about one US dollar for two people. You take a bowl over to a restaurant and they fill it with food for a buck, A nice sit down restaurant will cost about $8.00 for two with about 8 items and beverage. The bus costs 5 cents and comes every 5 minutes, The subway is 40 cents. All of these are ultra modern with video screens and every stop announced in Chinese and English. The roads and highways are all shiny new and well maintained. Contrast this to the decay that I saw a few years ago when traveling by boat up the Inter-coastal waterway and Hudson River. there were more buildings, bridges under decay and falling down.
            They need the US consumption to keep these factories going. In turn, their government loans the USA money to keep the USA going. You cannot totally disregard this synergy as each depends on the other.

            This is where I disagree with you. At this time when the US treasury is getting investment money from around the world for 1%, there is no better time to invest in upgrading your infrastructure. This money will peculate through the economy improving the supply and demand and improving the economy. This is a win, win situation. You can’t cut all spending when there is a time of recession. Ask any economist. As high as your deficit and debt is, it would be a mistake to follow an austerity policy as then did in Europe. This will lead to slower growth and a possible double dip recession. Get the economy moving and then in good times, increase taxes and decrease spending and pay off the deficit. You can save a bundle if you stop going to war. Imagine how much money you would save.
            To tax the wealthy is just one small step towards righting poor policies. It is not the end solution. The 1% have done well. In fact many wealthy people make more profits as costs go down, They are able to buy low and sell later when the prices go up. They buy stocks at bargain prices and when the economy improves they benefit from the increase. While the middle class were dumping stocks to pay bills and losing their investments, the well to do, were buying low.

            I am not an economist. I do not know if putting import duties back on imports will be good or bad for the economy. I do not know. I do know that Gov Romney is a fool if he keeps antagonizing the Chinese. If they ask for their money back, the USA will be in deep trouble. I have heard that about 7 trillion of the USA debt is owed to the Chinese. Do you bite the hand that feeds you? watch it Mitt.

            Now if you are a SciFi buff, you will know this quote from Spock. “The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the needs of the one” I think that there is a little bit too much, of everyone thinking of their own interests instead of the interests of the American people. It is a selfish ideology.

          • Frank Kahn

            Actually you are wrong and in one case missing the point.

            Our healthcare system is broken because of policy but not the Hopsital corporations. Part of your less expensive healthcare in Canada is due to the U.S. subsidizing of the cost. We pay as much as 4 times the cost for the same medicines made by the same companies in this country. Your country, and almost every other country in the world usually pays the cost of producing the medicine while we pickup the tab for the cost of production as well as research and development. Another major cause of high hospital cost is the insistance of them all having the most technologically advanced diagnostic equipment which costs millions if not billions of dollars for every hospital. That cost is included in the price of a hospital room. So instead of focusing on the hospital as the source of the greed you have to go back one or two companies to find their greed also. I am not dismissing the criminal price gouging going on in hospitals. I have seen itemized bills that included $50 for two aspirin and another $35 for the nurse that delivered it. If a nurse asks a patient how they are feeling in the hall it is charged also. I do not lay the blame for all of that on the hospital either, the nurses want high wages and that is a way to justify their worth to the hospital.

            On a side note about biting the hand that feeds you. Have you studied history lately. We pulled France’s butt out of the fire in WWII and paid the cost of reconstruction. You see them showing us any respect? We have paid the majority of the cost of reconstruction for all the damage done in WWII and I dont see anyone coming here and shaking our hands, saying “thanks for rebuilding our country”. Russians say they defeated Hitler in WWII, I guess we could have just sat by and watched them win the war. I never read any history books that said that Europe was winning the war before we entered it. Did I miss something?

            When I said the government needs to bring spending under control, I did not intend nor imply that it should be done tomorrow. I seem to remember talking about the recovery being a very slow process. There were many expenditures that are very wrong if not illegal that I never even touched on. For instance our government made a deal with Russia to give Russians Social Security bennifits even though they never paid into it. We pay the citizens of Guam a stipend because of the devistation the Japanese caused in WWII. These two items are wrong and unecessary expenditures.

            Now to a lesson in economics which will be hard to work around.

            One of the biggest budgets that needs trimmed is military. You said stop all the unnecessary wars. Good idea but, what happens to the economy when you put all those military industrial complex workers out of work. Everyone that designs and builds aircraft, ships, tanks, guns and whatnot will not be needed. So that is a bad idea unless you redirect the focus and efforts of the companies involved. In concert with it being a slow process it is also a very complex one that requires input from innovative minds to create new directions for our scientific research and development to take.

            The whole point that most would probably agree to is that we need to somehow take greed out of the human endeavor and replace it with self interest. The concept that, what is benneficial to the global village is good for the individual. I am not a pessimist but I see that as being a very very difficult if not impossible task.

            There is a saying here that goes, “the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.” What that really means it we humans always want the things that we dont have even if we dont really need them to survive. I talk to people all around the world on the internet and it astounds me when I get a complaint / request from poor people. First try to figure out how they are always on the internet if they cant afford food to eat. But, anyway, they will complain about not having anything to eat and just drink water to get rid of the hunger pains. Then it is their birthday and what do they want? Money for basic food staples or second hand clothes. NO, they want something much more essential. In the Philippines, 4,000 pesos is enough to feed a poor family of 4 for a month. But instead of that they want 4,000 pesos for a pig to roast, 1,000 for cake and ice cream and some extra for chocolate or chicken. Go figure. If you ask a poor american what is the first thing they will do if they win the lottery; answer, buy a fancy house and expensive car. Sounds like good solid fiscal responsibility there.

            Anyway, got a little of track there trying to show the ignorace of the human condition.

      • olfartnv

        Wanda You are correct! As one old man that LOVED women, my mother was one, my wife and daughters are also. In the world today, I for one am elated to see Women really start making their voices heard! Not the womens lipper types like Allred, Real Women!

    • Ted

      CAH – I guess that you are one of those who don’t follow the Constitution. Or don’t you believe that members of the Democratic Party have the right to freedom of religion?

      The Founders of the Constitution were mostly Deists who created the Universe then left it alone. Hence the term “Creator” in the Declaration of Independence, as opposed to “Lord”, “God”, or “Heavenly Father”.

      In one of the first Treaties agreed to by the new nation, the First Treaty of Tripoli (1797), the country proclaimed “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—”.

      This argument about “Religious Correctness” is silly and Unamerican!

      • Ted

        The first sentence of the second paragraph should read “The Founders of the Constitution were mostly Deists believed that God created the Universe then left it alone.”

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear Ted,

        You write: “The Founders of the Constitution were mostly Deists who created the Universe then left it alone. Hence the term ‘Creator’ in the Declaration of Independence, as opposed to “Lord”, ‘God’, or ‘Heavenly Father’.” That is a misconception. A common one, but a misconception nonetheless.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Robert Smith

        Pardon me if I don’t accept your claim that something is wrong simply because you state something is wrong. You simply don’t have that kind of authority or credibility in my life.

        Shucks Bob, rather than simply declaring something to be “misconception” why not explain just exactly why it might be wrong?

        Rob

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear Robert Smith,

          You write: “Pardon me if I don’t accept your claim that something is wrong simply because you state something is wrong. You simply don’t have that kind of authority or credibility in my life.” Pardon me if I don’t care. You are dishonest, continually changing the meaning of words to suit your particular screed of the moment.

          You write: “Shucks Bob, rather than simply declaring something to be “misconception” why not explain just exactly why it might be wrong?” I have before, and you have seen it and commented upon it.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • Vigilant

        Mr. Livingston, I beg to differ. Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, upon which the Constitution depended for its moral authority and to which the Constitution is inextricably linked.

        Jefferson was a Deist, and there’s absolutely no argument on that point. He revered Christ’s teachings but rejected the supernatural aspects of Christianity as a “revealed” religion.

        He used words to describe the Deity that were SPECIFICALLY Deist, i.e., “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,” and “Creator.” Those terms were not in general use from the Christian pulpits in the US.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Ted,”

        OF COURSE, LIBERALS HAVE A RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF RELIGION. I KNOW SOME LIBERALS WHO ARE “god-fearing.” MY POINT WAS, FOR Mayor Villaraigosa TO TAKE A VOTE THREE TIMES MADE LIBERALS LOOK LIKE, ATHEISTS AND “Antichrists.”

      • kim sylvest

        Sure Ted, we conservatives agree that loser, souless libs like yourself have the right to be Godless, immoral dopes. So if you really believe in what you say you do, why change your platform? If loser libs like yourself had any courage, you’d stand on your Godless principles and not change for anyone. But they did change didn’t they? Listen stupid, the point of this is not about the constitution, but about the fact that loser libs like yourself know that a majority of Americans do still reverence God and changed the platform so as not to allow those Americans to see what the Godless libs like yourself are really, really like: lying, intellectually dishonest, immoral, baby killing, homosexual celebrating,
        Godless followers of evil that you are!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Curious why you are so against God or anyone who professes to believe in God? If you say that they are intruding into your life, you have the freedom to say thanks but no thanks and go your own way.

      • Vigilant

        Ted, I agree with you to an extent. Deism does not NECESSARILY say that God created the Universe and then copped out. This is not complete on two counts:

        Such a view is not the monolithic philosophy of Deism. One faction of Deists believe this, but not all factions.

        Secondly, it is incomplete in failing to state a crucial facet of the belief, i.e., that the Creator established immutable laws (Natural Law), both along scientific and moral lines. Jefferson and other Deists believed that mankind could discover these laws through reasoning.

        And Jefferson said that the truths of Natural Law (morally) were self-evident.

      • Richard

        To Vigilant: Simply saying that I’m “wrong” doesn’t make me wrong nor you right, nor change the facts of history.

        “While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.”

        –The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.

        So now tell me that Washington was a “Deist’?

        Even more pointed are Adam’s writings on what principles the Founders looked to when creating our country:

        “The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.

        “Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System.”

        –Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

        All argument notwithstanding, Adams was there, you were NOT, and according to Adams, it was the principles of CHRISTIANITY which united the Founders … not “deism”.

        To Brett: I know very well what a diest is, but it’s obvious from your “conclusion” that you do not know what being a Christian means. It does not mean that you cannot disagree with the dogma of one, any or all of the established Christian churches (Catholics do this regularly). A Christian is simply one who professes Jehova as the One True God, Creator of all things, and that Jesus Christ was his divinely begotten Son, one in being with the Father, savior of mankind. Therefore Jefferson’s parsing of different versions of the Bible does not support your conclusion that he was a “deist”. Further, if you call yourself a “disciple of Christ”, as Jefferson did, you cannot at the same time deny Christ’s repeated admonitions that He was the Son of God … that is intellectually dishonest and inconsistent, which Jefferson was not. So the idea that Jefforson did not believe in the divinity of Christ is simply wishful thinking by those who feel the need to rewrite history to suit their own world view.

      • Gordon

        CAH= “seem like atheists” ??????

        The #1 premise of Christianity is that Jesus Christ IS GOD. For those of you who have seen red letters, the people espoused that they did the will of Jesus,,,,, and Jesus said, “Depart from me, I never knew you.”

      • brett

        to richard and bob livingston: re jefferson, founding father and father of conservatives on being a deist;

        “the truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. and the day will come when the mystical generation of jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of minerva in the brain of jupiter. but we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these united states will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.”
        thomas jefferson to john adams, april 11, 1823.

        i put forth that by your own inclinations, you are subverting the will of this founding father!!!!!!

      • Sirian

        To all concerning this issue. Jump to this link and read over what points of view, beliefs were stated by many. . . http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=8755 – A Few Declarations of Founding Fathers and Early Statesmen on Jesus, Christianity and the Bible

      • brett

        sirian: the issue is not questioning whether or not any of the founding fathers were christian, believing in the teachings of jesus, or not, it is concerning whether some were deist, those who were not concerned with the divinity of christ or god and the literal interpretation of the bible. for some reason there seems to be those who think that deist are not christian.

        • Frank

          If Deists do not belive in the spiritual aspect of Jesus, that he was the son of God born of the virgin Mary then they are not christians by definition. The words quoted from Jefferson’s letter that are used to identify him as a diest make it certain that he was not a Christian. Just like Jews are not Christians.

      • DaveH

        Could this be the reason, Brett?
        http://www.gotquestions.org/deism.html

      • Vigilant

        Richard is entirely, completely, irrevocably wrong when he says, “So the idea that Jefferson did not believe in the divinity of Christ is simply wishful thinking by those who feel the need to rewrite history to suit their own world view.”

        “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.”

        -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

        Are you accusing Jefferson of rewriting his own history from the grave? Those were his words, his exact words, in the letter to Adams. I suggest it is people such as you and Bob Livingston who seek to rewrite history.

      • Vigilant

        For both Bob Livingston and Richard:

        Jefferson’s letter to William Short dated October 31, 1819:

        “The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent moralist (Jesus), and the rescuing it from the imputation of imposture, which has resulted from artificial systems [E.g., The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity, original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of Hierarchy, etc.] invented by ultra-Christian sects, unauthorized by a single word ever uttered by him,…”

        I’m truly dying to see your answers. If you have ANY respect for the historical record, and admit the documented authenticity of the two examples I’ve just provided, do you STILL make the ridiculous and totally blind-to-reality claim that Jefferson was a Christian?

      • Vigilant

        Richard proves my point with “All argument notwithstanding, Adams was there, you were NOT, and according to Adams, it was the principles of CHRISTIANITY which united the Founders … not “deism” [sic].”

        You, like Bob Livingston and so many others on this site, have a problem with understanding the English language.

        I, for one, have tirelessly defended the proposition that our nation was founded on Christian values and PRINCIPLES many times on this site. There can be no doubt that the Founders were dedicated proponents of the PRINCIPLES of Christianity.

        But to define a “Christian” assumes a lot more than simple guidance by PRINCIPLES; it defines a person who believes in the “revealed” nature of the religion, and one who believes in virgin birth, signs and miracles, angels and demons, the sacrament (communion), the divinity of Christ, etc., in short, those things that Jefferson on more than one occasion REJECTED on no uncertain terms.

        I’ve already provided two examples from Jefferson’s writings along those lines.

        prin•ci•ple/ˈprinsəpəl/

        Noun:

        1. A fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning.

        2. A rule or belief governing one’s personal behavior.

        For Jefferson, Franklin, Thomas Paine and other Deists, the fundamental proposition upon which their belief was founded was eloquently expressed in the self-evident truths of Natural Law as penned by Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence (and he used the term “Creator,” a specifically Deist term).

        The “rule(s) or belief(s) governing one’s personal behavior” were therefore almost identical for Deists and Christians alike.

        Many, many people who are Atheists, Agnostics, or non-Christians guide their lives by the Christian PRINCIPLES but not by the faith in the supernatural aspects of Christianity. The Deist Founders were just such people. And understand, when I use the term “Founders,” I’m speaking of the prime movers Washington, Madison, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin and Hamilton.

      • GALT

        Might be useful if you pointed out that Jefferson actually wrote his own
        version of the bible which would support your argument, because he dumped
        all the supernatural stuff from it………and if memory serves, Jefferson’s word’s
        were changed by a small group in the Declaration, to the words we are familiar
        with …..using CREATOR…..and I believe Franklin was part of that group…….
        which again provides you with more support………of course, I haven’t read all
        of this exchange, so if you have brought this up…..excuse the interruption.

      • deerinwater

        Well, I find your argument on solid ground Vigilant . You impress me yet again.

        These “God matters” can divide people that think they have much in common.

        If I’d been there, I’d been a NAY vote.

        A Personal Savior ~ is just that ~ Personal and not to be pontificated from the Bully Pulpit of Government. Both Religion and Government require constant pruning to contain unrelenting encroachment. It seems that it’s not enough to tolerant an opening prayer anymore, as yet more God business and reverence wants to be done ~ WHY??? What will ever be enough??? and who is to decide this????

        Some one has to take the responsibility of overview and umpire this entanglements. As soon as we allow the camel to stick his head in the tent, it’s only a matter of time and we have a whole camel in the tent.

        I don’t want to disagree with anyone over their personal religious beliefs and the best way to do that not give it a seat at the table ~ as I assume each of us carry’s it with us as Christian, Muslim, Hindu are suppose to. It does not require a “Chair”.

    • Richard

      The idead that the Founding Fathers were “Deists” is a load of left wing propaganda. This is the tried and true liberal tactic of “relabeling”: If your side needs night to be day and day to be night, simply rename “day” or “night” so that reality becomes what you want it to be.

      Buth the truth is that not only were they Founders affiliated with established Christian Churches, several were ordained ministers. Here is a website listing the Founder’s church affilitations:

      http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

      Here are direct quotes from the writings of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, etc. on the subject:

      http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm

      Jefferson in particular is always cited by the left as being a profound “deist”, yet he wrote:

      “I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.”
      –The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

      Liberals incessantly attack Christianity and try to rewrite history because liberalism, at its core, cannot tolerate the idea of God, especially the Christian God, because by definition He has the power and authority to say “thou shalt” and “thou shall not”. Above all else, liberals glorify “choice” because in a world governed only by choice, there are no boundries, there are no sins, hedonism is the norm and every perversion must be accomodated. In other words, the “self” is at the center of the universe (aka, the original sin of pride) and in such a universe, there is no room for the Christian God. So, liberals (at least the hard core ones) must incessantly attack Christianity and attempt to drive it from the national discourse and will peddle lies to do so.

      The bottom line is, the Founders were Christian and Christian priciples and rhetoric are woven throughout the founding documents. You want to be an atheist, fine, dont’t worship anyone. You want to be an agnostic, well … go study until you make up your mind. You want to worship Tufnut, the Goddess of women in tight bluejeans, have at it. But DON’T try to revise history to suit yourselves and DON’T lay this bunch of “Deist” baloney on the rest of us.

      • jorgi

        Thank You Richard ! The Founding Fathers were Christians and for what ever reason the verbage has been changed through the years ,stating they were Deist is false . They were not deist ,they were Christ believing men of honor who after the Constitution was signed , lost all they had , were hunted like dogs , jailed for doing the Right Thing .
        Courage , like these men displayed is rarely seen in government today . So foreign to many who have little concept of the Majesty of Christ , and little more understanding of Christ .
        Shame on these people at Demo Convention , they spent more time trying to figure out WHO they were , critizing conservatives , upholding murderous abortion agenda’s , rather than finding a way to unhold the laws of the land I.E. the Constitution of the United States . Where is the honor in this ?
        Good people this is the downfall of mankind who fear not God . This must have been the CHANGE that Mr. Obama was talking about . Godless .

      • Doug

        Thankss Richard for stating it with such facts something progressives and Demorats never have on there side. It’s funny who do you think when they were praying to when they held services in halls of Congress back in the 1700′s. Just like taking out of context the statement of seperation of church and state. I am really starting to think that all Demorats, progessives, communit and marxist are all closet journalist just wanting to push their own imaginary thoughts as truth!

      • Vigilant

        Richard, you are not only wrong, you are profoundly wrong.

        Your misunderstanding is summed up in one statement, that disproves your point rather than bolsters it: “Jefferson in particular is always cited by the left as being a profound “deist”, yet he wrote:

        “I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.”
        –The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385. “

        You’ve never heard of the Jefferson Bible? I didn’t think so. Jefferson took scissors and removed all references in the Gospels to miracles and other supernatural events. He published it and it was given to incoming Congressmen for many years. Look it up.

        He revered Christ’s teachings but never subscribed to the supernatural aspects of Christianity. He was undoubtedly a Deist, and the quote proves it (he believed in the doctrines of Christ, NOT the divinity).

      • Len

        Richard,
        Thanks so much for your references and knowledge. I have run into this “diest” argument many times and have not had the time to research a response. Never again.
        /Len

      • brett

        do you even understand what deist means? it is a natural belief in god not a fundamental one. jefferson considered himself a christian in the basic sense and would not nor did not take the bible literal or as gospel. it is well known that he cut up the bible (a french one, greek one, latin, and english) to paste his own version made up only of references to jesus that he named ” the life and morals of jesus of nazareth “. it is also well known that he knew arabic and owned a koran. i’m sorry that i can not give you a reference, but i do know that jefferson was not concerned with jesus’s divinity which therefore makes him a deist. he believed firmly that freedom of, and freedom from religion were equally important:

        ” when the virginia bill for establishing religious freedom was finally passed, a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. where the preamble declares that the coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word ” jesus christ “, so that it would read ” a departure from the plan of jesus christ, the holy author of our religion.” the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend within the mantle of its protection the jew and the gentile, the christian and mahometan, the hindoo and infidel of every denomination.”– thomas jefferson: autobiography, 1821.

        just found this:
        “but a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of the jewish religion, before his principles were departed from those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors in church and state.” thomas jefferson to samuel kercheval, 1810.

        ” the christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it’s benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind.”- thomas jefferson to moses robinson, 1801.

        conclusion: deist!

      • alpha-lemming

        Nicely done. Mentioned almost as a throw away line, the lefts revisionist talking points and bastardisation of the English language is CRITICAL to growing their ranks via the guilible. A couple of quick examples that come to mind is Reagan deficit spent, they aren’t taxes, they’re investments, and concerning the gay marriage fiasco….. marriage isn’t a “rite”… it’s a “right”.

      • Chester

        Richard, there is no one more Diest THAN an ordained minister, He is the one who has studied most of the writings and his own heart so he can know what to preach. Very few of them believe that God takes a serious interest in our day to day lives, but they also believe that He can and does interfere when it suits His purpose. Now that may not be pure Diest thought to you, but it does not fit what most evangelicals want us to believe, either. Why do you think so few true Evangelicals are ordained in any of the traditional churches, where you almost have to spend at least four years of your life studying and being indoctrinated into that faith’s beliefs.

      • Cindy

        Are you trying to deflect as the repubs are quilty of not even mentioning the troops still at war?? Won’t work, your error is glaring. Even the non believers, honor our troops!!!!

      • Paul B.

        There is no room for God, and our God given inalienable rights, for with the left, it is Government given rights in their eyes. so anyone, or anything, including God that gets between their minions and government MUST be extinguished which includes all the basic liberal tactics of ridicule, demonization, lies, twists of fact, and if all else fails, potential persecution.

        “There shall be no God above DC.”

      • Joe Hammond

        How about this…..The concept of s “god” is created by shamans in order to maintain control of tribal units. It later expands to become larger and tries to force itself on others.

        Many of us do not need an invisible friend to cope with life’s difficulties……….Many do….but that is just another weakness they possess….

      • Karolyn

        Joe – It’s not weakness to have faith and believe in a power greater than one’s self. – and I am not a Christian.

      • deerinwater

        “Buth the truth is that not only were they Founders affiliated with established Christian Churches, several were ordained ministers. Here is a website listing the Founder’s church affilitations:”

        and for good reason, ~ The Church House was the center of social society and where the most voters could be found and addressed at a single location at that time period. Before electricity, where things moved as the speed of a horse, a comfortable 60 to 75 miles per day with a light rider and sturdy horse.

        It’s was not really a GOD matter but one of logistics, feasibility, opportunity where people were known to assemble on certain days at certain times, where they could be met and addressed.

        You assume more then you should to your Lord predicated solely on your reverence.

        • Jesse Fell

          Doesn’t it depend on which “founding father” we are talking about? They were a diverse group. Jefferson certainly can be called a Christian only by taking that term in a very broad sense. Franklin — more of a founding grandfather — was not notably pious, whatever his religious convictions. Madison may have had religious convictions, but his thoughts about government were grounded in Tacitus, Locke, and Montesque.

          Except — one thing the fathers did take from the Judeo-Christian tradition was a belief in original sin (which the modern theologian Reinhold Niebuhr said is the only Christian dogma that is empirically verifiable). This dogma, and their reading in history, led the founders to regard human nature as incapable of being entrusted with unchecked power without selfishly exploiting it. They did not find the danger in government per se — the danger lay in our radically fallen post-lapsarian natures. I find it hard to believe that they would have regarded corporate power as any less likely to be selfishly exploited than government power. I don’t think that they would have been surprised to see the merging of governmental and corporate power for more efficient exploitatioin of the selfish possibilitie of that power. Power is power, and its temptations are almost irresistable, whether wielded by a Senator or a CEO. Those naked orchard thieves started it all

    • Mary

      As usual, Conservatives assume they know all Liberals and their lifestyles. It may interest you to know they are not so unlike you. Many do believe in God, maybe not voice it to the extreme as some on the right. They work, pay their bills, raise their children to be good citizens and most of all believe in the Constitution of the United States which says all people are created equal and all have the right to pursue life, liberty and happiness, which also includes the right to worship the God/religion they choose. Liberals are more in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ as they are more inclined to follow his example of helping the sick, the hungry and the poor, a teaching some Republicans seem to ignore as they promote self serving ideology. To make themselves appear superior, the Conservative Republicans have become a laughing stock of hypocracy everytime they use God to further their political agenda. Religion is best when it is practiced at home, in ones chosen church and among like minded people. By insisting all Americans bow to the Christian God, goes against the Constitution which gives us all the freedom of any religion we choose. These right wing extremeist religious fanatics are no better than the other religions they fear will take over the world. They are trying to do the exact same thing in America. I might also remind the readers here, that the DNC opened its convention with a prayer to God and a beautiful rendition of the National Anthem. It appears they were not too adverse to mentioning God. As much as Christians would like to believe they should be the only religion in American, it is simply not the way it is. The Federal government represents ALL Americans and in fairness to all, it should not show favoritism to one religion and that means not displaying religious symbols, prayer, and etc in public government buildings. Most Democrats believe in these same principals. It is obvious by the number of Christian Churches, in every town in America, that their freedom to worship is certainly not violated or in jeopardy. If the right feels so strongly about God, it seems odd that Romney, a Mormon, would have been their choice. He may claim to be Christian but I was taught that Christians must believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Mormons do not believe in the Immaculate Conception. Interesting ! Did I mention hypocracy?

      • Paul B.

        Mary, what you state about Christian morality begins and exists at home is NOT the Liberal mantra, for they hold that DC is the controller of charity. It is DC that gives us our rights, not by simply being born, but because, DC in their graciousness have bestowed upon its citizens all the rights they think we should deserve.

        You have fallen prey to the rhetoric while ignoring the obvious assault on our rights. Deception is an art form with the left, the progressives that have consumed the Democratic party. they prey on your compassion as they know that is what motivates most humans, but when it comes itme to legislate policy, it becomes a matter of DC control that they pursue, not advancement or even upholding our individual rights.

        They believe in collectivism, social justice, abortion on demand, ignoring the teachings of christianity, which like Jefferson, I believe in the moralities of christianity as a basis for societal laws, but not the divinity of Jesus. It is a personal decision how we live, what we believe in etc. It is NOT the right that wants to impose our rights on others, but simply a defense of our rights to express our beliefs which come under constant attack by those who seek to put DC over our individual liberties and rights as humans.

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        Mary: ALL religion is bull@#$%. Adam and Eve, Noah’s Ark, Moses parting the sea, the loaves and the fishes, the immaculate conception – no rational person could believe that crap. Most people, including Romney and probably you, hang on to the religion they were born into. To turn your back on your religion is often turning your back on your family and friends. That is very hard for most people to do. And then of course, there is the fear factor – eternal damnation, fires of hell, demons, and all that nonsense. I don’t care what your religious beliefs are, and I don’t care what Romney’s religious beliefs are. I’m voting for Romney because I believe he is a truly decent man, and I believe he has the competency to put together an economic team that will save us from total economic collapse.

    • eddie47d

      Listening to Wandamurline gives me a really really big headache but I’ll suck it up and keep reading all these butcher block comments. What’s the matter Wanda you didn’t like the good economy during Clinton’s presidency or is everything to you about sex? Now we have a bad economy and no sex so which do you really prefer?

    • http://yahoo gator

      Nick Czudy, this nation was founded on christian beliefs; we are BORN with our GOD-given rights, not government-given, read the DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE, the CONSTITUTION, BILL of RIGHTS. they ALL make it clear.
      a RAPIST is a RAPIST, makes no differance his color, he’s just as evil, and should be removed from society, permanently.

      • Nick Czudy

        Gator. I agree Rapists should be dealt with the full power of the law. You missed my point all together. The GOP and many of the religious right, want to take the decision away from the woman, if she was raped, to have an abortion. I said that many of these people, that are so against it would be the first to ask for an abortion, if it was their loved ones that were raped.
        There have never been any rights that have been God given. He doesn’t exist. He exists in your mind. If you want to think that he does then that is fine. But I cannot think of a single right that has been given to me by God. Yes Sundays are for Football and Golf.
        I cannot believe the number of sane, educated people in the USA that take the bible verbatim instead of treating it as the historical document that it is.
        The bible was written, and edited by the council of Constantine about 300 to 400 years after Jesus’s death. They debated whether to show Jesus as a God or as a mortal man. They threw out documents and letters that did not conform to their decision. It was needed at the time to create some peace and harmony in that area. So why so many intelligent people can treat this book as the gospel and take every word and analyze it word by word. I will never understand. It is a 2000 old document that was relevant 2000 years ago. it has some good morality in it but also the 1st testament has some pretty gory stuff in it. It is no longer relevant to our society now. We do not need the threat of hell and eternal damnation to be moral and live side by side with people in our society.
        We will not kill and rape our neighbors. It will not be the will of God, but our civil rules and laws that govern our actions in our society.

        In the bible, one person says that it means this and another will read it and say it has an entirely different meaning. I read it many years ago and understood its purpose in society of the time. To still treat it as it is the operating manual of civilization 2000 years later is silly.
        Most religious people think that to be moral, good and kind that you have to be religious and believe in God. Well I say that religion does not have a monopoly on these traits. An atheist can be just as good, kind and moral without the fear of hell or eternal damnation.
        They will be this way as it is the proper way to live with others. How many religious fanatics, laugh and ridicule the Muslim culture for having salvation in heaven, for a martyr, with 70 virgins? It i absurd, isn’t it?
        I had to laugh at the absurdity at Obama’s inauguration when some right wing congressmen blessed the portico that Obama was to walk past to give him a good sendoff to his term as president. That is totally insane. These men are making and governing on our behalf in government! How ridiculous? What these men did not know was that it was less of God’s good will as to Obama’s success and more to the obstructionist congress that would determine his success or lack of it, over the next 4 years. These congressmen should be hung as traitors for their treason to make Obama a one term president rather than govern for the good of the country, I would demand that they repay their pay checks and distribute the money for food stamps to the poor and hungry.
        So please, as offensive you must feel that I, an atheist, would not have a bible in my house. I am equally offended that you assume that I have to accept religious dogma, being used every day as if it was a given in our modern society.
        Please keep religion to your selves. Lets use the Congress and our constitution to make good decisions in every day government.

      • Nick Czudy

        Dear gator … You said the following: “Nick Czudy, this nation was founded on christian beliefs; we are BORN with our GOD-given rights, not government-given, read the DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE, the CONSTITUTION, BILL of RIGHTS.”
        Christian beliefs should be rewritten as moral beliefs. What rights have been given to us from GOD? I do not know of any. You have to remember that at the time, when the constitution was written, it was generally considered that all were Christians. RIghtly or wrongly, that was a symptom of the times. According to Hitchens, many of the founding fathers were not Christians and were Deists or Agnostics. You read way too much into the words and do not understand the meaning.
        Is what you are saying is that all Americans have to be Christians? What does it say? Should we be baptists, catholics, muslims, hindu, protestants or some other religion. Actually it is also written that the government should be secular. Religion is a freedom, not a law that forces religion on everyone. Please reread the constitution.

  • http://NEWSTIP TOM COLLINS

    WELL SAID.. THE DEMOCRATS ARE SO WRAPPED UP IN NONSENSE THAT HAS NO CONCEPT OF GOD THAT WE ARE ABOUT TO FALL INTO THE SAME MIND SET THAT CAUSED THE ISRAELITES TO LOOSE THEIR NATION. IN 1948 , GOD HAS GIVEN THEM ONE LAST CHANCE. THERE WILL BE WAR, AND ONLY BY GODS HAND WILL THEY SURVIVE.

    • Karolyn

      How did the Israelites “loose” their nation in 1948?

      • Dan

        If you will notice there is a period after nation meaning end of sentence and statement . Followin is in 1948 israel was given another chance .

      • dan

        I was wincing from ALL OF THE SHOUTING !

    • Margaret Louise Joyner

      I like your comment. I wonder what these pople will say when they face God.

      • Deerinwater

        You are shorter then I thought?

        • Nick Czudy

          Hi Deerinwater…… You said….

          I like your comment. I wonder what these pople will say when they face God.

          You are shorter then I thought?

          I love it. I am your fan. haha.

          I repeat, God has no place in our politics. keep it to yourself.

    • Mary

      You do seem to be very religious. If one truly believes in God then they believe he is almighty and can do anything. If that is the case, then we must assume he wanted Obama to become President. It seems Republicans are the ones questioning the desires of God . I guess they will justify it by saying the Devil did it. Or could it be politics dictating religion? So when the Preacher lashes out at the Democrats during your next church service, as some have been known to do, maybe you should wonder where his loyalities really are.

      • Paul B.

        Maybe God is teaching us a lesson by allowing Obama to be president. It is to show us what NOT TO DO, as his policies in many ways are NOT in line with what he taught. We were slowly sliding into a complacency that threatened our countries existence. Maye Obama was the wake-up call we needed to regain our focus.

        I don’t believe God does ANYTHING to control our lives, but still I believe Obama was just what this country needed to wake up and return DC control to the citizens. It’s like the analogy of putting a frog in water then heating it up slowly. the frog will just sit there until it dies. Put a frog on hot water and it jumps right out. Obama is serving as the boiling water.

        Americans overwhelmingly support individualism over collectivism, and this Nov will be that choice and the turning point for the direction we follow.

      • eddie47d

        The only thing that heated up was the weak Bush/Cheney tenure and the collasped economy. God didn’t glorify them either.

      • Joe Hammond

        Many religious fanatics say all things come from God…..This would also include abortion which they claim to hate. Also AIDS. And cancer…..God also murdered everyone but Noah’s family with a great flood as well as the first born of the Egyptians….quite a diety, eh?…..Also, if you Christ lovers believe in the unchallengable truth of the bible then the mighty diety’s plan to populate the earth was….incest!!! And he did it twice. Once through Adam and Eve and their children banging each other. And the second time through Noah’s kids screwing each other…..So why do you not embrace it? It is God’s plan now according to the bible…..And we all know the bible is pure truth…..bang, bang!!!

      • Vigilant

        Mary begins her posting with a logical fallacy: “You do seem to be very religious. If one truly believes in God then they believe he is almighty and can do anything. If that is the case, then we must assume he wanted Obama to become President.”

        There is absolutely NOTHING in the preceding sentences that leads to such a ridiculous conclusion.

        You make the ludicrous claim that because God CAN do something, then he necessarily WILL do it. And your proof is….?

        You also deny one of the basic tenets of Christianity: free will.

        If all is predetermined, then there’s no use in any of us trying to make a difference in our lives or the lives of our families and friends. You would say, “lie down and let the world’s fate play out as it will (or as God wills).

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        Mary: If we follow your line of thought, we would have to assume that god wants women to be raped, old women and men to be severely beaten or murdered for the few dollars in their purses and wallets, and children to die young of horrific diseases. It is because of people who think as you do that I opened my eyes, and turned my back on religion a long time ago.

        • tony

          Mary , Mike R is right , you and me and everyone else is seen in the eyes of the elite and environmentalist leadership technocratic societies as a Threat to THEIR EARTH because of Worldwide OVERPOPULATION !!!! Thats why we see all this Confusing Lack of Up holding the individual rights and access to Liberty given economic enabling policies that are written in our constitution . The health care bill for example is designed to take treatment away from the class of people who begin to need it most in life in an attempt to bend the curve of Life span and reduce the demand for treatment costs on the overall health care system and they make it sound so good like this , Listen to this line of reasoning , it strikes me odd that Gates does not explain how he is going to convince the Teachers that their Lives will become the same way that he is saying of those who need to be cut off from access to treatment to free up Capital for them , and how will Gates and the Teachers teach this philosophy to the children so they Except this future for themselves ??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrJBY2l1MQQ I thought we all were here to help each other for as Long as we possibly could and not let Mammon be the determining factor in when a Persons life is Over because one is fearing for their own existence ??? This is not true leadership but a sign that Leadership has been absent for to long .

        • tony

          Mary , I am telling you the Mission behind the Obama Administration follows a Path of Consolidation of Every Resource Known to Mankind all in the name of saving Earth from Overpopulation Fears within the Technocratic society , Look at those People Who President Obama surrounded himself with when he took Office , thats all you need to look at to know what Path our Nation and its Economy has been taken . This Fear needs to Be Challenged with Alternatives and make these People come out into the Open and Be truthful with the American People about what their true intentions are !!!!! . http://www.cattlenetwork.com/e-newsletters/drovers-daily/Well-all-be-vegetarians-by-2050-scientists-say-167746295.html
          Here is a Audio of a Obama Adviser that explains the Health care Bill that even COBRA rejects , http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/26/world-population-resources-paul-ehrlich
          COBRA rejects Obamacare ,
          http://www.cobrahealth.com/Obamacare-rationing.html

          These guys that Advise Obama have conned Obama and are running the USA over the Cliff on Purpose with their ANTI growth idealogy and this is wrong because the western nations show sustainable population growth in our own CIA Fertility Charts !!!
          https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html

          See this Guy is right in there with Obama Science CZAR John Holdren and together with the other technocrats they have designed a de-Industrialization of the United States of America , These guys Planned this take a Look , http://cnsnews.com/node/75388 , with the Transformation of Wealth Creation over the past 30 plus years of trade policies that has left us all Dependent now on foreign sources of parts supplies , and Romney Ryan need to point these National Security Risks out to the American People about why we need to Change the Tax Code to redirect Industrial Investment of Off Shore Funds held in foreign Banks Back to the USA so we can bring back a Balance of Self reliant Part production supply to the USA so we ARE NOT Dependent on foreign suppliers that NOW Don’t even want to continue to Take our US Dollars for these traded goods !!! I bet that the Multi-National Corps would NOT have continued to Trade with these Foreign Suppliers if they would have Known that this would have led to a Rejection of the US Dollar and the USA and Europe becoming so Dependent on these parts supplies that this would become a National and International Security Risk , and so the Time for Debate around this economic security issue is justified and those responsible for directing this trend need to be exposed and why don’t you think Romney Ryan ??? Its all about Freedom and that Freedom comes from being properly balanced in how we supply our Parts needs to sustain Life and Liberty !!!!

      • Smilee

        ony says:
        September 17, 2012 at 9:34 am

        IN PART YOUR POST:

        The health care bill for example is designed to take treatment away from the class of people who begin to need it most in life in an attempt to bend the curve of Life span and reduce the demand for treatment costs on the overall health care system and they make it sound so good like this , Listen to this line of reasoning , it strikes me odd that Gates does not explain how he is going to convince the Teachers that their Lives will become the same way that he is saying of those who need to be cut off from access to treatment to free up Capital for them , and how will Gates and the Teachers teach this philosophy to the children so they Except this future for themselves

        MY RESPONSE:

        Gates conversation is very well needed but what he advocates is not a part of the affordable health care bill as it takes no coverage’s away from anyone and as health care for those over 65 is mostly Medicare which got expanded coverage’s in the law and Medicaid coverage’s are mostly now set by the states all other private health care plans reduced no coverage’s and expanded many, like denying coverage’s by insurance companies for pre existing conditions and many more including birth control coverage’s that some bitched about but no reduction of coverage’s. For all under 65 the insurance coverage is all through private insurance with subsidies for those that are considered poor either through subsidy of premiums or the very poor, Medicaid . There is no denial of care as you state these are incorrect statements on your part. Health Cost reductions are going to come from most health costs bankruptcies being eliminated and these monies then will becoming income for providers, the 85/15 rules that will cut insurance overhead in half from what it is now, eliminates many costly emergency room costs and many more. Expanded insurance coverages to 30 million more people will drive down insurance costs. It has always been the bigger the insurance pools the lower the premiums and this will greatly increase the size of the pools in addition to allow people to become a part of a pool instead of being priced as an individual. Additional polices and overhead costs from not having to check every claim to see if they can deny claims for pre existing conditions or other reasons and bigger pools will limit the need for these large overheads of insurance that we have seen the last 30 or more years, This bill is a very good start and that is also what the Mayo clinic stated publically.

        • Proud to be a Believer

          If you in your heart believe the bull crap that you are stating, you have bought into the socialists agenda.

      • Smilee

        tony says:
        September 17, 2012 at 9:35 am

        You got all the far right talking points down pat but they are mostly propaganda and are totally lacking in real factual support. Little of what you say is anything more than BS

        • tony

          smilee you got the lefty talking points down pat too god bless

      • Smilee

        Proud to be a Believer says:
        September 17, 2012 at 11:56 am

        If you are speaking to me then let me set you straight, I was not following anyone’s agenda I got my information directly from the bill, yeah I know I am one of the few whom actually read the whole bill (the one they actually passed not some of the fakes that have floated around the net) and I found out it is not at all like what the far right wants you to believe but that does not matter as the bill is the law and that is what will be, Remember how the far right said is was not Constitutional, they were proven wrong there too, it seems that more and more as time goes by we find out much of what they say is pure BS

      • Smilee

        tony says:
        September 17, 2012 at 12:45 pm

        smilee you got the lefty talking points down pat too god bless

        The truth is neither left/liberal or right/conservative talking points it is simply the truth, pure and simple, If you see the left using these as talking points then they are telling you the truth and you should believe them rather than dismiss them because you do not like the truth and wish to portray it as something that you seem to perceive as bad.

      • Craig

        God allowed Obama to become president in order to punish us for turning away from him. A society that promotes abortion, pornography and homosexual marriage is a society that has turned its back on God. Obama wishes to downgrade the role of the U.S. in the world. If he gets another term, we’ll be like Greece, Spain, Portugal etc. That is his wish.

  • LC

    http://youtu.be/t8BwqzzqcDs
    Just in case anyone wanted to see the full ABC published post on youtube. Although the article is biased, we all know they don’t work for the same God we all know and love. The motion was a two part; one part including God in the platform, the other agreeing with Obama that Jerusalem is the capital of Isreal.
    Amazing that both parties continue spewing lies and expect voters to believe and trust them.The house I belong to and was raised in, ‘lying’ wasn’t only a poor reflection of your person, it is also considered punishable and a cause for repentence.

    • dogbyte

      Some believe, God being a universal figure, that they were booing all gods. That would include Allah. Oh my, What have they done? They booed Allah. Wait until the Muslim world figures that one out.

      • LC

        That’s funny and directly touches on what is wrong with this PC crap in our society. I find it hard to believe that people of all races are so insecure about themselves and their beliefs that they have to over dramatize to the point that the government must acknowledge them to make them feel better about themselves and their beliefs.SAD.
        On the other point, it was a two part motion so how do we know exactly which half was being responded too? Obama himself was trying to do the same thing and get the people to acknowledge his beliefs about Jerusalem. I like the old way, “I’ll believe what I believe and you believe what you believe,” and that’s it. Religion or your beliefs are not a popularity contest.
        Each person is responsibile for their actions before God.I don’t agree but, If women want to kill their babies and God knowing and feeling their reason doesn’t forgive them for that, It’s not a reflection on me and doesn’t interfere with the relationship that I have with God. The decisions of the courts to be pro choice was made by individuals and they will be judged accordingly. Individually.

    • moonbeam

      Same here, LC. Lying was not tolerated in the house I grew up in. You paid the consequences with a belt to your hindquarters and you never got a good whoopin’ for the same thing twice. You adequately learned the first time around.

      • LC

        We should be thrashing bottoms instead of casting ballots. Even the minions of politics speak with forked tongues. It’s very simple, a person walks in the Light and the Truth or they are a den of thieves, using trickery and deception to persuade others to join their ranks. And yet some how people still want to over examine, boast knowledge and place blame, when it is quite simple,all who refrain from the truth and devulge in deception are Satans followers. They like to call it ‘transperancy’ so that when they fall short of their lie, they some how wouldn’t be calling themselves untruthful. We don’t need to look at issues we just need to ‘hold to the truth’ then maybe God will shower US with blessing again.

  • Harold Olsen

    I doubt that booing God will make any difference. It’s common knowledge that liberals have contempt for religion,especially Christianity and every chance they get they ridicule the religiious beliefs of Christians and Jews. They embrace Islam only out of cowardice. If anything, putting God back into their platform could decide some libs to not vote. I have often referred to them as the Atheist-Socialist party and it is not for nothing that I do so.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      I am a liberal Harold. I hold no contempt for religion. I just do not believe in any organized religion. I am an agnostic. I do not believe in god, but I respect the beliefs of those that do. Whether they believe in Christianity or Judaism or Islam. All that matters to me is respect in return. I do not embrace Islam but I do not disdain or fear it. All I fear are religious extremists. Then again I just plain fear extremists in general.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Jeremy Leochner,”

        I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH YOUR DEFINITION OF, “AGNOSTIC.” YOUR DEFINITION IMPLIES ATHEISTS HATE THOSE WHO ARE THEISTS.

        LIKE YOU, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN DEITIES. I ONLY THINK THEY ARE WASTING THEIR TIME.

        Mr. Leochner, AN “AGNOSTIC” IS SOMEONE WHO HAS NO INTEREST IN PROVING WHETHER ATHEISTS ARE RIGHT, OR, THEISTS ARE RIGHT – i. e., AGNOSTICS ARE “FENCE-RIDERS.”

        NO OFFENSE, Mr. Leochner – IT IS NO COINCIDENCE THE FIRST FOUR WORDS OF YOUR COMMENTARY WERE, “I am a liberal.” ATHEISTS AND THEISTS GO THROUGH LIFE WITH A “BLUEPRINT” WHICH IS BASED ON THIS “BELIEF/DISBELIEF” QUESTION. WHEREAS, AGNOSTICS TAKE A REACTIONARY APPROACH TO LIFE AND ALLOW THINGS TO HAPPEN HAPHAZARDLY. THIS BASIC PATTERN OF RANDOMNESS IS OFTEN DISPLAYED IN THOSE WHO SUPPORT LIBERAL IDEOLOGIES.

        ON THE OTHER HAND, ATHEISTS AND THEISTS TAKE A PROACTIVE APPROACH TO LIFE AND INDIVIDUALLY DICTATE HOW EVENTS IN OUR LIVES “PLAY OUT.”

      • Vigilant

        “AN “AGNOSTIC” IS SOMEONE WHO HAS NO INTEREST IN PROVING WHETHER ATHEISTS ARE RIGHT, OR, THEISTS ARE RIGHT – i. e., AGNOSTICS ARE “FENCE-RIDERS.”

        CAH, I suspect you have preconceived notions about agnostics that are unwarranted. It is NOT a fence-rider position, your implication being that Agnosticism is not a legitimate philosophy, that one must be either theist or atheist.

        I was an Agnostic for many years before I became a Deist. It was a position which simply said, “I do not know whether or not God exists,” or “there is no way of proving or disproving God’s existence.”

        Rather than being a fence-sitting position, with the attendant wishy-washiness normally associated with such a stance, it was an uncomfortable spot where I was seeking to find out the truth. I believe many “religious” people are in the same quandary, and would welcome some proofs of His existence.

        Generally, theists and atheists have stopped searching. In both cases, their positions are based on faith. Neither can prove or disprove God’s existence. They are the ones who take the easy way out, because they have stopped searching.

      • eddie47d

        Some call me liberal and I do have 4 bibles in my house and they are not used as door stops. I also have had a picture of Jesus 5 ft. within the entrance of my front door. That picture has hung there and in our other house for over 30 years. It is to remind people who enter what my beliefs are and to respect my home. Religion occasionally gets talked about when we have gathering and there are those who don’t believe in God. They are still welcomed in my home for it is not my duty in life to force people to believe in what I believe in although I can be opinionated at times. I believe that Vigilant and Jeremy are clear in what they accept as the truth and have thought it out over the years. They would both be welcomed in my home.

      • Flashy

        Well said vig…well said

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Vigilant,”

        SIR, YOU PROVE MY POINT.

        YOU SAY YOU WERE AN AGNOSTIC BEFORE BECOMING A THEIST. THEREFORE, YOU WERE “RIDING THE FENCE” UNTIL YOU FOUND AN ANSWER WHICH MADE SENSE IN YOUR LIFE. BY BECOMING A THEIST, YOU DECIDED AGNOSTICISM, ” … is not a legitimate philosophy … .”

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “eddie47d,”

        SIR, I HAVE NO DOUBT OF YOUR VALUES. BUT, CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS ARE A “DYING BREED.”

        IN 2012, IF DEMOCRATS SAY THEY SUPPORT ABORTION AND “gay-rights,” THERE IS NO WAY THEY CAN “CLAIM” THEY WALK WITH “their hand in The ‘Lord’s’ hand.”

      • Vigilant

        CAH, I don’t prove your point, you miss mine. Which was simply, Agnosticism is not a fence-sitting position, it is a legitimate belief and philosophy that has a strong basis in its own right. In my case, it was a “stopping off” point at which I sojourned for awhile, but that’s not to say that all Agnostics are dithering.

        Your argument would be analogous to saying that one must be a leftist or Conservative, and that any other position is “fence-sitting.” That is not so. Centrists hold their beliefs dearly and would not take kindly to one calling them wishy washy.

      • DaveH

        My definition of Agnostic is — an atheist who is afraid to admit it (and for good reason).

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Vigilant,”

        SIR, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT WHILE YOU WERE AGNOSTIC, IT WAS NOT FULFILLING FOR YOU? THEREFORE, BY FINDING FULFILLMENT IN THEISM, WOULD YOU AGREE AGNOSTICISM REPRESENTED AN ILLEGITIMATE PHILOSOPHY IN YOUR LIFE?

        “Vigilant,” SIR, ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN WORDS, CHOOSING THEISM MEANT YOU “GOT-OFF THE FENCE.”

      • moonbeam

        Vigilante, you write ” I believe many “religious” people are in the same quandary, and would welcome some proofs of His existence.”

        Your belief is in error. True believers have proof of God’s existence. We know who He is and see evidence of Him in our daily lives. We are in no quandary. Only those who won’t open their eyes or remove the scales from them search blindly in the dark. For those who have eyes to see and ears to hear…

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Chris I was not trying to define any term. My beliefs fall under the dictionary definition of liberal. Plus I like the name. As for agnostic those are my beliefs. I do not believe atheists despise religion or religious believers. I was trying to point out that not believing in god does not equal disdain for religion by using myself as an example. And I do not live my life haphazardly. I do have a blueprint as you say. I just do not believe I can control my life. My mom often uses an analogy of a card game. I cannot control which cards I am dealt. I can only control and decide what I do with the cards I have.

      • Paul B.

        Dave H.. .I am an atheist and NOT afraid to admit it. I believe in a determined existence, no free will, and hence that all humans are created equal in the respect that we are all driven by the same forces in life… genetics and environment. I am also a conservative as I agree with the Christian principles of morality. I have a level of acceptance for everyone and what they believe, although I disagree with them many times. As such, I respect everyone at the basic level of existence. When I comment, it is to impart a perspective or knowledge, an experience that may alter an individual’s belief and therefore their perspective on facts they may have never considered before.

        There is NO judgment involved as to what is right and what is wrong for that too is very subjective and a result of how we were raised, our experiences, and the perceptions were gained along the way… the way we have reacted to prior experiences sets our future.

        I am disappointed MANY time when I hear atheists “preach” about the foolishness of religion, the belief in a God, etc. I would say they are also blinded by the true meaning of being an atheist because they really don’t understand that judgment of another’s beliefs, that are basically NOT within their control to create. Ridicule is NOT the way to influence.

        there is no free will, only a reactionary existence by which we are all bound and it is only the acceptance of new knowledge through respected sources that influence our beliefs and it is through those prioritized beliefs that we react. We have evolving individual philosophies that guide our lives.

        It is this level of acceptance of the uncontrollable nature of our existence that creates a true inner peace. By eliminating the uncertainty and regrets of why things happen, I am able to focus on the learning the impact of the event and dealing with it going forward.

        We strive to gain new knowledge for that is the only way we grow, and by spreading that knowledge we hopefully influence others towards the same inner peace. there is NEVER an attempt to force opinion, although when ridiculed by others, especially from the left, I find it difficult NOT to express my displeasure. I don’t hate them, just frustrated that they truly don’t get it, and there is little I can do or say that will sway their opinion. But such is life and you learn to deal with it…. period.

      • DaveH

        Liberal used to mean those who favored Small Government and Individual Liberty. We call them Classical Liberals now because, like so many English words, Liberal (in the Political sense) has been bastardized to mean belonging to the political or intellectual left which is almost the polar opposite of its meaning two hundred and fifty years ago. Was that on purpose? I think so. Probably one of many ways the Elite have schemed to keep the people ignorant and accepting of an ever-growing Government.
        What we call Liberals these days are far away from the Dictionary definition.
        From various dictionaries — “open minded”, “for individual rights”, “tending to give freely”, etc.
        Our modern day Political Liberals are indeed “tending to give freely”, only it’s not their own money they’re giving. They’re for “individual rights” as long as those rights are limited to abortion. And they’re “open-minded” as long as you do things their way.

      • DaveH

        Paul B,
        First you say — “Maybe God is teaching us a lesson by allowing Obama to be president”.
        Then you say — “I am an atheist and NOT afraid to admit it”.
        You’re a confusing guy, Paul.

      • Vigilant

        moonbeam says, “Vigilante [sic], you write ” I believe many “religious” people are in the same quandary, and would welcome some proofs of His existence.”

        “Your belief is in error. True believers have proof of God’s existence. We know who He is and see evidence of Him in our daily lives. We are in no quandary. Only those who won’t open their eyes or remove the scales from them search blindly in the dark. For those who have eyes to see and ears to hear…”

        You have shown a deep misunderstanding of what I said. There was a reason why I put “religious” in quotation marks. It was done to indicate that I think many who call themselves “religious” have serious doubts about their faith but merely go through the motions. In other words, they call themselves religious but are in reality agnostic.

        As a Deist I believe that God indeed can be found through evidence available around us, and through the reasoning process. The effect of this is a compelling reason to have faith, but will never be a “proof” in the commonly accepted meaning of that word.

        God, after all, transcends all of our meager powers to even attempt to put a finger on him. By definition, once you have proven God’s existence, He/She/It ceases to exist and becomes a finite power.

    • Chester

      Harold, I want you to name exactly WHICH liberals you are referring to, or should I conclude that you use exaggeration to leave yourself open to mass condemnation because you LIKE being the butt of all the jokes in the school yard? Statements like that are known as throwaway lies anytime you say all or none, never or always, and seems like you have tied about three of those terms into one statement. God help you if you ever try to run for office using language and logic such as is displayed here.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    The democrats did not boo god. Not mentioning god is not the same as insulting him. I am sure god prefers actions to lip service. I do not think the democrats do a very good job. My thought is their performance is more important then their words.

    • ArkansasRebel

      Jeremy, I certainly agree. They were not booing God but rather they were booing the theft of the electoral system. There vote was discounted as though the chairman had been given orders to “make it so” regardless of the actual vote. None-the-less the fact that God was stricken from the platform initially is in itself a denial of God in my view.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        All the Democrat platform did was make their unbelief official for the whole world to hear. Usually when confronted with their unbelief you get backpeddling that you really didn’t hear correctly what was said. Not this time, the whole world is a witness against them.

    • alpha-lemming

      I’m having a difficult time wrapping my arms around this argument…. but I am trying.

      Attempting to remember back, the platform pretty much repeated what appears in the Declaration of Indepenence citing… “unalienable and God-given rights”…..

      If the rights of free-men do NOT come from God…??? then they come from????

      Almost as bad as booing God would be that rights (and dictates, and requirements and prohibitions, and ALL personal choices,actions,and needs) come from Government.

      Insidious !!!!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Neither the declaration or the constitution ever says god given rights. What it does say is our rights are self evident. Our rights come from the simple fact that we have the power of choice and we have a conscience. And by that I mean a Let your conscience be your guide conscience. With that comes the freedom given us in our rights and with it the responsibility to respect the rights of others. No one, not even god can take away our rights unless we forsake them by doing wrong. But then it is because we are in the wrong that our rights are forfeited. I believe that if there is a god that in the past he has allowed things to happen that were wrong. While I have tried to wrap my mind around why he would allow such things to happen I can simply never escape the fact that I believe in my heart that he was wrong. As such I follow my conscience and let it be my guide. I am not always right. Sometimes when I do something I believe is right it ultimately is wrong. The world can be a chaotic and unpredictable place. Religion gives people a sense of certainty. Its a good cup of tea. Just not mine. I believe that people can do good without believing in god. And since I do not believe in god I believe that there is good in this world without him. Our rights do not need to come from god to be unique and glorious. No one can ever take them away from us so long as we fight and believe in them. That is a miracle whether god is involved or not.

      • Kate8

        Jeremy – Does it not say, “…endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights…”?

        IOW, God-given, in my book.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Indeed it does. My belief is it is open to interpretation. Had the founders intended it to be seen as god then they would have specified. Me I still stick to the self evident truth of our rights.

  • swampfox

    just proof we are in the last days,jesus fortold all of this,
    Jesus said,they would honor me with their lips,but their heart is far from me,
    their apostasy knows no bounds,Jesus sees it for what it is,a farce.
    wonder why gods judgement is on this nation?
    Jesus is about to get his true diciples out of here and remove his true and faithful followers,those who have stayed true to his word and kept the faith and not corrupted the gospel.
    any day now,that trumpet is going to be blown and i’ll meet my lord and saviour in the air,
    many are going to be left behind because they grew lukewarm and compromised his word,
    sin is sin,period,if you are a beleiver in Jesus Christ and a born again beleiver,then get right with
    the LORD,the rapture is imminent.
    everything is coming to pass as Jesus fortold.
    BE READY and look up for our redemption draweth nigh!!!!
    yeah,scoff and make jokes,Jesus said that would happen as well,
    that was all the holy spirit told me to say,
    I can’t wait to get out of here!!!

    • KG

      It’s this crap that our founding fathers were trying to escape. Is “God” mentioned in our Constitution? No. There is a reason for that.

      Because of all the advances in science, people started questioning the social structure which put “God” at the top and put the “rulers” under God. Philosophers at the time contemplated mans tendency to fall victim to his worst impulses of greed, fear, violence and lust for power.

      The years before of religious and political turmoil inspired new ideas about people living in peace. Rejecting the idea that civilization is preordained by God.

      So, if there was no mention of God in the Democratic platform, why all the fuss? Because all of the Religious ‘Nazis’ we have, we have to put God into everything. Even thought in our Constitution, Article 6, it says “… but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

      The very conditions that the Religious Right are making through their “Ecclesiastical” fevor are what the founding fathers were trying to AVOID!!!!

      So all of you so called “Constitutionalists” are full of it!

      “Power to the People!” – John Lennon

      • cawmun cents

        Didnt Lennon get shot?
        Oh well…..no big loss.
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • KG

        Anybody here seen my old friend Abraham?
        Can you tell me where he’s gone?
        He freed lotta people but it seems the good they die young
        You know I just looked around and he’s gone

        Anybody here seen my old friend John?
        Can you tell me where he’s gone?
        He freed lotta people but it seems the good they die young
        I just looked around and he’s gone

        (brief instrumental interlude-organ)

        Anybody here seen my old friend Martin?
        Can you tell me where he’s gone?
        He freed lotta people but it seems the good they die young
        I just looked around and he’s gone

        Didn’t you love the things that they stood for?
        Didn’t they try to find some good for you and me?
        And we’ll be free
        Some day soon, it’s gonna be one day

        Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
        Can you tell me where he’s gone?
        I thought I saw him walkin’ up over the hill
        With Abraham, Martin and John

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “cawmun cents,”

        YOU ARE THE FIRST CAUCASIAN I HAVE HEARD SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT John Lennon. THANK YOU, SIR. I AM A George Harrison FAN; I DO NOT LIKE John, Paul McCartney AND Ringo Starr.

      • rb

        Was that Lennon in his 3 million dollar penthouse looking down on all those “people” writing “Imagine” or Lenin in early 20th century Russia? They both advocated power to the people and horded all of their riches to spend on themselves. In fact they both lived off other people’s labor to make themselves rich. I don’t recall John Lennon ever having a real job. (Except for when the “Beatles” were a bar band in Germany maybe.) And he abandoned his son. Fine example to quote now isn’t he.

      • KG

        Who was a more endearing human – Jerry Falwell or John Lennon? at least Lennon admitted he was a human. Mr. Falwell thought of himself as “infallible” So, in my not so humble opinion, Lennon is far more deserving of admiration.

      • Vigilant

        KG’s take on the founding of our nation must have been gleaned from one of Howard Zinn’s infamous “histories” of America through his jaundiced eye of communism.

        First, the shallow, uniformed statement “It’s this crap that our founding fathers were trying to escape. Is “God” mentioned in our Constitution? No. There is a reason for that.”

        Yes, there is a reason, but NOT what the ignorant KG claims. Most atheists and communists I know of have consistently and conveniently disregarded the very basis of the Constitution. It was called “The Declaration of Independence.”

        What made that document so inextricably linked to our founding philosophy was not the laundry list of grievances against the king. Such a thing alone made no moral statements beyond itemizing perceived injustices; it was the iteration of the violation of Natural Law as the reason for why they were injustices.

        “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”

        We were not just getting rid of a king, we were establishing, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, the concept of sovereignty of the individual. And that sovereignty is based on CREATOR-endowed rights, not “rights” granted by government, not “rights” that some elite committee decides, not “rights” as defined by ANY human ruler.

        In short, the Constitution was created as a culmination of the expression of Natural Law in the Declaration. Abraham Lincoln expressed it quite eloquently in his “Apple of Gold” writings. The picture of the apple of gold (Declaration) is framed by the Constitution. The Constitution was created FOR the Declaration, not vice versa.

        Mentioning God in the Constitution was unnecessary. It was a plan of government, not a religious tract. The first three words of that document (“We the People”) firmly established and confirmed the sovereignty of human beings as expressed in the Declaration’s Creator-endowed rights under Natural Law.

      • dan

        check the preamble to the Constitution,nimrod…from whence do ALL Blessings flow ?
        How you answer that determines who you god really is.

      • Vigilant

        KG continues with his idiocy with “Because all of the Religious ‘Nazis’ we have, we have to put God into everything. Even thought [sic] in our Constitution, Article 6, it says “… but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

        His ignorance of the very purpose of the Constitution is obvious.

        The “religious test” was ONLY for federal offices. The states were perfectly within their rights to apply those same religious tests to determine qualification for state or local offices. And, in truth, several states actually DID mandate those tests.

        Whaddya have to say about that KG?

      • eddie47d

        Considering the numerous songs that John and the other Beatles wrote I would say they gained prominence through those efforts. In other words they earned their wealth. Some performers do make money off of other songwriters but not those guys. Apparently RB doesn’t think any performer has a real job so how about Reba McEntire or George Strait or Frank Sinatra. Talent is a gift most of us don’t have and I’ve known carpenters who live off of making things on their own but don’t have a “real job”. Some would say they are God given talents.

      • KG

        I was planning on trying to rebut your outlandish claims, but YOU beat me to it.

        It says “We, the People” not “I, the individual.” While individual “rights” are precious, it’s really only in the context of society that we can even express any notion of “freedom.” The freedom you espouse is the freedom to die ALONE.

        I choose to be a part of our society. Rather than try to find “loopholes” in historical documents, why don’t you read them with a open heart? You might find things that you never expected.

      • KG

        Uh…you “state rights” people lost at Appomattox Court House.

        Tell me, do you wash your white robes before you burn the crosses or after? It must feel good to have a hero like David Duke.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “rb,” GREAT COMMENTS.

      • Vigilant

        KG says, “It says “We, the People” not “I, the individual.”

        It would be difficult to come up with a more inane statement than that even if I tried. We are called a Constitutional Republic because it FULFILLS the promise of individual rights, and does not suborn them to collectivism. It CELEBRATES individuality and the preservation of our DIFFERENCES, as no written document in history had done prior to that point.

        The world not only accepted with open arms such a philosophy, it has honored and emulated it, to this day. Every socialist experiment had failed up to that time, and every socialist experiment has failed since that time.

        I remember you making another egregiously incorrect claim that communism is in the Constitution because it contains the terms “we the people” and “general welfare.”

        Aside from Marx, Engels and Howard Zinn, I have no idea where you’ve come up with such palaver. It’s indicative of a profound misunderstanding of our nation’s history. And your collectivist outlook treats people as statistics, not human beings with individual rights.

        Then you continue with your propaganda with “While individual “rights” are precious, it’s really only in the context of society that we can even express any notion of “freedom.”

        Another boner. The only absolute “freedom” is found in the absence of government, but as Hobbes said, in such a context life is nasty, brutal and short. The Constitution provides a VERY LIMITED framework for central government that extols the virtues of individuality but provides for the security of the individual in society by allowing for common defense and few other things that only a government can do.

        It secures the rights to private property, something Locke claimed was the MOST IMPORTANT function of government but which collectivists deny. You are a sorry lot.

      • Vigilant

        KG then blathers, “I choose to be a part of our society. Rather than try to find “loopholes” in historical documents, why don’t you read them with a open heart? You might find things that you never expected.”

        Only a committed communist, and one so abjectly ignorant of our founding, could come up with such propaganda as to claim that the 10th Amendment is a “loophole.” You have turned the Constitution completely on its head. Moreover, you’ve denied the 5th and 14th Amendments’ guarantees to private property ownership.

        The Founders did not expect us to read the Constitution “with an open heart.” Their writings are clear and straightforward, providing us with a blueprint that has withstood the ages to become the longest written constitution in the world’s history. It did not accomplish this by leaving itself open to emotional interpretation (“living” Constitution theory of the leftists).

      • Gordon

        Chris, you are such a tremendous racist that I bet you can’t order food without a racist overtone.

      • KG

        Vigilant – I know you have searched for any possible “loophole’ to justify not paying taxes. I know you think that paying taxes is “…stealing from those who have and giving to those who don’t.” While nobody likes paying taxes, they are necessary for ANY functioning government. Name one active government that does not require taxes? I hear that in Somalia they pay NO taxes. And, they have complete freedom of arms as well. Why, you should go there – you could make millions!

        Just take a deep breath, and say to yourself ” America is a socialist democracy.” Say it like a soothing mantra. Picture F.D.R. giving your Grandparents a chance so you could have what you have now. When you drive down the interstate, think of all the union workers who fed their families with the wages earned while building the greatest transportation infrastructure in the world.

      • KG

        One of the documents that Ho Chi Minh used in justifying his rebellion against the RVN was Americas Declaration of Independence. It really helped him. He showed them what “freedom” was all about.

      • DaveH

        KG,
        You don’t have the foggiest idea what Freedom is about.

      • eddie47d

        Actually KG does on that point. Vietnam as a complete nation was being suppressed by the French and Ho Chi Minh did use our D of I as a platform for change. The French were defeated but then the USA came in and abolish free elections and divided the nation. A few years later we set up the Gulf of Tonkin incident and declared war. We are still doing that to this day in other parts of the world.

      • Vigilant

        “Vigilant – I know you have searched for any possible “loophole’ to justify not paying taxes. I know you think that paying taxes is “…stealing from those who have and giving to those who don’t.” While nobody likes paying taxes, they are necessary for ANY functioning government. Name one active government that does not require taxes? I hear that in Somalia they pay NO taxes. And, they have complete freedom of arms as well. Why, you should go there – you could make millions!”

        Look at this well, folks. It’s an example of the Alinsky tactics of (1) straw man argument (putting words or thoughts in my name and then arguing against them), and (2) attempt to divert the thread away from the subject.

        Face it KG, you have no arguments worth a hill of beans. You’ll not bait me in such an amateurish attempt. In the face of my arguments you cringe and squirm because you have no answer and you have no knowledge of history. What a maroon.

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          Vigilant: Is a maroon a cross between a macaroon and a moron? A coconut moron? It sounds both delicious and repulsive.

      • Vigilant

        eddie says, “Actually KG does on that point. Vietnam as a complete nation was being suppressed by the French and Ho Chi Minh did use our D of I as a platform for change.”

        And in what did that “platform for change” untimately result? Answer: a brutal communist regime.

        Ever read the old constitution of the USSR? Full of flowery promises of KG’s “socialist democracy.”

        All that you and KG have confirmed is that the communists are comfortable using the language of democracy to hoodwink their folks into falling for disaster.

        KG is guilty of the same nefarious henchmanship. Cut it any way you like, the guarantees of individual rights are NEVER to be found in the toolbox of the communist bastards once they get in power.

      • eddie47d

        Vigilant; Ho Minh endorsed our declaration until until he saw how we abused it to conquer and start wars with other nations for capitalistic purposes. Communism at the time didn’t seem as exploitative to him after witnessing colonialism and imperialism. If we can”t present a better picture of our self to them then other alternatives will be chosen.

      • KG

        I wasn’t aware that Americas REAL problem is communist domination. I thought it was a financial system run by greedy basturtds and a secret banking cabal run by closet satan worshipers?

        I THOUGHT we “defeated” the Soviet Union – by outspending them? Why do you guys like ‘Vigilant” fear this supposed “socialist conspiracy”? I mean, If you guys were really “Patriots”, you would want to see America survive.

        “Divided we fall, united we stand.” We CANNOT be “rugged individualists” and expect to see OUR country survive and thrive. That’s why its called The UNITED States – it’s not “the SEPARATE States of America.”

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          KG: The answers to all of those questions can be found in AMERITOPIA by Mark Levin.

      • Vigilant

        MikeR says:

        “Vigilant: Is a maroon a cross between a macaroon and a moron? A coconut moron? It sounds both delicious and repulsive.”

        You’ll have to ask Bugs Bunny. You didn’t know he coined the phrase?

      • DaveH

        KG says — “I wasn’t aware that Americas REAL problem is communist domination. I thought it was a financial system run by greedy basturtds and a secret banking cabal run by closet satan worshipers?”.
        The Bankers are indeed a problem, KG. But they’re a problem because they hide behind the Power of Big Government — A Big Government you Liberal Progressives have helped to create. Without the Force of Big Government, they would be helpless.

        KG says — “I THOUGHT we “defeated” the Soviet Union – by outspending them? Why do you guys like ‘Vigilant” fear this supposed “socialist conspiracy”? I mean, If you guys were really “Patriots”, you would want to see America survive”.
        Exactly KG — we want America to survive. That’s why we don’t advocate Political forms which have been Proven Failures throughout history. Those Folks who want to learn reality can see here:
        http://www.freetheworld.com/2011/reports/world/EFW2011_complete.pdf

        KG says — “We CANNOT be “rugged individualists” and expect to see OUR country survive and thrive. That’s why its called The UNITED States – it’s not “the SEPARATE States of America.””.
        It’s called the United States, KG, because once upon a time our Freedom Loving Founders knew that Central Government, being remote to the voters, was least responsive to the rights of individuals, and they gave the Federal Government very limited Powers. Thanks to people like you, KG, the Federal Government long ago broke the shackles of the Constitution and became the despots that our Founders feared.

      • Palin16

        CHRISTOPHER,
        I must respectfully disagree on your opinions of the Beatles. George Harrison had very limited talent compared to John Lennon and Paul Mccartney. Typically, George wrote only one song for each album and sang lead vocals only on that song. John and Paul were the songwriters for the bulk of their material and they handled most of the vocals as well. George was just in the right place at the right time. Listen to “All you need is love”…George’s guitar solo was all of 10 seconds before Lennon pulled the plug on him. And then George got Eric Clapton to do the guitar solo on “While my guitar gently weeps.”

      • KG

        Saul Alinsky had bigger balls than any of you MF’s could dream of.

        Power to the People

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          KG: I’m not surprised to learn that you have intimate knowledge of the size of Saul Alinsky’s balls. I suspect that you have swallowed large quantities of his DNA.

      • KG

        Please tell me, specifically, what violation of our Constitution is occurring because of “liberal” policies? I understand the “fed” conspiracy, but, tell me exactly what clause “liberals’ have violated?

        I think the main one is “the war powers” clause. Who were the last three nations we actually declared war upon?

        Are you one of those “revisionist” types who think that Congress has no power to regulate commerce? I know a lot of conservatives “hate” that clause, specifically for the Labor law that has sprung from it.

        So, what is this “laundry list” of “violations” you have?

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Palin16,”

        I LIKE “ALBUM ROCK” MORE THAN, “ADULT CONTEMPORARY.” FOR ME, THE ONLY “HITS” THE Beatles HAD WERE George Harrison TUNES [LIKE, "Here Comes the Sun"].

        AS A SOLO ARTIST, Mr. Harrison IS A “ROCKER” – “Crackerbox Palace,” “Cloud 9,” ETC.

        ON THE OTHER HAND – IN HIS SOLO CAREER – John Lennon WAS A “COMMERCIAL POP” ARTIST ["Nobody Told Me There Would Be Days Like These," ETC].

        Paul McCartney IS ALSO A SOLO- “POP” ARTIST – COLLABORATIONS WITH “R&B” ARTISTS LIKE, Michael Jackson ["Say, Say, Say"] AND Stevie Wonder ["Ebony and Ivory"].

        George Harrison IS A “ROCKER!”

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          CAH: As a Beatles fan, I am much more impressed by your music knowledge than by your loony political opinions. I saw the Cirque du Soleil Beatles show at the Mirage in Las Vegas. It was the best show I have ever seen.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        THE COMMENT ABOUT Saul Alinsky’s “ball-size” AND “DNA-swallowing” WAS “COOL!”

      • KG

        It’s kinda funny when all of the so-called “conservatives” decry “name-calling, when after a few posts here that is EXACTLY what they are good at. I’ve really tried to talk about some really substantive topics.

        Now, don’t get me wrong. There is nothing more entertaining than a good “flame” war. I’ll admit that, but will YOU admit that?

        I’m still waiting for the “clear violations of our Constitution” by the “liberals.” Or, are you RYANING again? (a new political term -ryaning- conservatives who make-up $#17 about “liberals.” Or, an Asian person accusing a person of a falsehood ;)

      • DaveH

        KG says — “Power to the People”.
        Isn’t that a Communist slogan?
        Of course, KG, probably means ‘only those people’ who want to take what others own.
        No doubt in my mind that KG belongs to this Society:
        http://mises.org/daily/4125

      • KG

        “There is nothing wrong with telling people that taxation is robbery, that regulation is trespass, that drug laws are assault and robbery, that politicians are criminals, and that the state is a monstrous criminal agency.”

        “Indeed, it is positively beneficial to take all the money that one can from the government, since this is the very criminal agency whose power one should be attempting to diminish.”

        Ben O’Neill
        http://mises.org/daily/4125

        So, who do you want to pay for your clean drinking water or the roads you drive on? You guys are IDIOTS. How can you have this “society” for free? So its a “crime” for Government to tax you? Well, who is the government? WE ARE!

        I think the second quote shows the justification of Republicans to make money off the Government.

        Romans 13

        King James Version (KJV)

        13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

        2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

        3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

        4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

        I HOPE some ATF agents find you and burn your compound down.

      • DaveH

        KG says — “So, who do you want to pay for your clean drinking water or the roads you drive on? You guys are IDIOTS. How can you have this “society” for free? So its a “crime” for Government to tax you? Well, who is the government? WE ARE!”.
        I want to pay Private companies for my water. I want to choose who I buy my water from, voluntarily. I don’t want “Idiots” like you, KG, making my choices for me. I would pay less and get better and more polite service from a private company. That is assuming of course that “Idiots” like you haven’t allowed Government to guarantee those private companies a monopoly.

        KG says — “I HOPE some ATF agents find you and burn your compound down”.
        Thank you, KG, for showing the readers what “compassionate” Liberal Progressives are really like.

        You indeed are a member of the Society of Criminals, KG.

      • KG

        I’m as compassionate as any modern christian. How many Gays would you like to kill? How many “liberals” you would like to kill?

        Yea, we tried that with the Phone company. All we did was turn the greatest telecommunication network into a bunch of Money rapists. But, that OK. It’s a “free market,” right?

      • DaveH

        Wow, KG, you’re really starting to show your true colors, aren’t you?
        The answer to your questions is — None. I just want you Liberal Progressives to be honest and admit that you are nothing better than common thieves who, instead of doing your own dirty-work, hire the Government to do it for you.
        Your phone company example is weak to say the least. But then, what else can I expect from an ignorant Liberal Progressive? We have been far away from a Free Market in phone services almost since the phone was invented. Politicians have had their meddling hands in the Phone Service market for at least my lifetime.

      • DaveH

        What makes you different than those rich people who you think are taking advantage of you, KG?
        I mean, you are a Sociopath just like some of them. The only real difference between you and the rich Sociopaths is that they’ve made it and you haven’t. In other words, you have no real Principles. You’re just Envious of them.

      • KG

        What you call “Stealing” is just me re-acquiring that which belonged to me in the FIRST place. And Government has supplied you the conditions in which to acquire the capitol to begin with. So, you fell that you owe NO ONE?

        • Frank

          OMG, KG, you have opened my eyes. I now understand, that according to your BS, I owe every dollar I earn as a computer programmer to Bill Gates for creating DOS. Without that there would be no Windows operating system for me to use in my work.

          I am going to appologize for calling you stupid before. It is a fact that psycopathic personalities are very intelligent. They understand that us normal people are less than them and owe them everything.

          Your BS does not go back far enough though. According to your LOGIC???, we have to give our money to England since they caused the conditions that lead to the founding of our country. And wait, according to Obama, the nation of Islam is responsible for all modern art, math and science so, we owe all our money to them for creating a world where we can function.

          Why not go back even further and say we owe all our money to Moses’ decendants for freeing us from the tyranny of the pharohs.

          Or, if you are a Christian, go back to the beginning and we owe all our money to God. So we should all give all our money to him, wait, he does not want our money so I guess we get to keep it.

          OH OH, just thought of someone you need to start paying money to. You would not be able to spread your mindless hatred for humanity without that computer so you need to start paying Intel for their designing and development of the CPU. Or maybe Cisco systems for their technology that makes the internet work.

          And yes, all of what I said is stupid. But I decided to join forces with you and put forth stupid as the way to look at everything. So lets be friends and work together, I can show you marvelous new ways to manipulate false logic to prove anything.

          No response needed or expected since we all know you wont engage in normal human conversations.

      • KG

        I don’t understand. Are you human? Humans NEED certain things in order to survive. In our society, we have chosen money to represent the medium of exchange. And we have made it difficult to acquire so as to prevent “moral Hazard” in our society.

        However, when I help you to acquire said money, I think it’s only fair to ask for that portion that, in reality, I created through my labor. In other words, any value you gained through my selling of MY LIFE, I think I deserve.

        Now, just like the guy who asks a woman “Would you have sex with me for a million dollars”,and she says “Yes” – and then he asks her “will you have sex with me for $50 dollars. She then says “No”. And then he says “Well, we already established you are a whore, I was just negotiating price!”

        Capitol CANNOT exist without labor. Capitol negotiates Prices in the market, why can’t labor do the same? Why do you call “taxes” “stealing”? And, yet, paying someone to do dangerous work for less than a “living” wage IS THE SAME AS STEALING. You are stealing the workers “time”, why shouldn’t you be willing to compensate?

        I remember when I thought someone making $50 thousand a year was rich. Now, in most of the country, that’s just squeaking by. The world has changed. You can no longer get a good cigar for 5 cents. I don’t think you could get a good cigar for less than 20 dollars. Now, I think, that’s a 400% increase. So, what you call “stealing” is nothing more than me “reacquiring that which belong to me.”

        Power to the People

      • KG

        You guys are idiots. Just because you followed Regans advice and became entremanuers. Now since you didn’t pay your Taxes, you don’t qualify for Social Security. And now, because you lost faith in OUR government, you guys are trying to play “catch up” on retirement. Now, I’ve been a Union member for 20 years, and I looking forward to my retirement. Not only will I recieve SS, but I also have a Pension. So who is jealous of whome?

        Oh, BTW, Bill Gates STOLE DOS – just about every program Microsoft had in it’s original version of DOS was actually written by other people who received PENNIES versus the Millions Mr, Gates and Co. received. Yea he made is money the old fashioned way – he STOLE IT!

        “The hospital strikers have demonstrated that you
        don’t get a job done unless you are willing to
        show the Man you are not afraid…if you are not
        willing to pay that price, then you don’t deserve
        the rewards or benefits that go along with it”
        -Malcom X

        “Every advance in this half-century: Social Security, civil rights, Medicare, aid to education – came with the support and leadership of American Labor.”
        -Jimmy Carter

        “Labor is prior to, and independent of, capitol. Capitol is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capitol, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
        -Abraham Lincoln

        • Frank

          DOS was CREATED as an improvement to CPM. It is only theft because the mighty psychopath KG says it is. I will not argue the theft proponent of Microsoft, I am well aware that they co-opt many designs and “legally” stole many parts of their products.

          Capital spelled with an A not a O is actually a substitute for barter. Instead of giving you my cow for 500 chickens I will give you the value of my cow in money for them. As such, to argue which came first capital or labor is stupid. Obviously the cow was there before man decided to sell (barter) it.

          And, by the way, quoting a democratic president to indicate the truth of something is not proof. Also, to most normal humans that are not wanting the destruction and slavery of white people, Malcolm X is a worthless icon for quoting also. You can quote all your hate mongers who follow the qua’ran or malcolm X or hitler all you want, that does not make their psychopathic ideologies valid for “normal” civilization.

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          KG: Only a leftist loon could have quoted Malcolm X and Jimmy Carter in back-to-back sentences. Perhaps if you could spell ‘entrepreneur’ you could have become one.

      • KG

        There were plenty of “shovel ready” projects. The problem was Boner and co. in our right wing nazi house of representatives said that these projects had “strings” attached to them.

        These “strings” were Unionized Contractors. So they scrambled to find some projects they could reward to their Rat buddies to “show” everybody the “superiority” of private enterprise. Oh, yea – Let’s not forget what contractors want. There are only TWO kinds of contracts – Government contracts and BIG government contracts.

        When these contracts go to union labor, more money actually gets to the worker. Who will take their wages and SPEND THEM – hence economic growth. But, when you reward these contracts to NON UNION companies, most of the money is pocketed as “profit.” How do they do that?

        Well, if the job was bid properly, then you have to bid it at “prevailing wage” Which is usually whatever wage rate is offered by the local union. However, if your workforce is “open shop”, the job may be bid at $50 an hour, but you pay your guys only $10 an hour. It’s this crap Mr. Obama wasn’t going to put up with. That’s why i support the President.

        Power to the People

    • Proud to be a Believer

      Absolutely Swampfox and me and mine will get to meet you once we are zapped out of here. Looking so forward to it also as just cannot stand all of this lying, corruption, greed, business not being taken care of properly, homosexuals out in the open (at least we didn’t have to put up with them when they were in the closet) muslims parading around the globe beheading people and people putting up with it. Wait until all of these people get “left behind”!!! You as a believer know what comes next on earth for the next 7 years and then a new heaven and earth. Can’t wait.

    • moonbeam

      AMEN!!!, Swampfox! I can FEEL the Spirit in your words. WOW! Those who don’t know what that feels like, you don’t know what you’re missing. WOW! It is amazing.

      Just today I fought off bad nasty spirits rising up trying to bring me down. Immediately I recognized what was going on and rebuked them in the Name of Jesus. It is a constant battle rebuking benevolent and contrary spirits that try men’s souls. Oh my gosh I feel GOOD! Hallelujah!

      Not so an hour ago when I perceived a wrong that did not exist. It was a bad spirit trying to make me believe a wrong was done. And I told that spirit to go back to hell where it came from and never return. I’m ready to fight off the next one that tries to rise up.

      You guys just don’t know, you just don’t know. I invite all who don’t, to get to know HIS saving grace. Get to know God for yourself.

      Thank you, Swampfox! You don’t know how you have helped me today. Thank you. See there folks. This is how God works. He puts people in your life to help lift you up when you are feeling down. WOW!!!! You don’t have to do this life alone. Proof? I’ve got it!

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      swampfox: Jesus refused to fight, then he got his ass kicked, and then he was murdered. Now he is your hero. Jesus was a victim, but he’s not my hero.

    • KG

      I don’t understand. Are you human? Humans NEED certain things in order to survive. In our society, we have chosen money to represent the medium of exchange. And we have made it difficult to acquire so as to prevent “moral Hazard” in our society.

      However, when I help you to acquire said money, I think it’s only fair to ask for that portion that, in reality, I created through my labor. In other words, any value you gained through my selling of MY LIFE, I think I deserve.

      Now, just like the guy who asks a woman “Would you have sex with me for a million dollars”,and she says “Yes” – and then he asks her “will you have sex with me for $50 dollars. She then says “No”. And then he says “Well, we already established you are a whore, I was just negotiating price!”

      Capitol CANNOT exist without labor. Capitol negotiates Prices in the market, why can’t labor do the same? Why do you call “taxes” “stealing”? And, yet, paying someone to do dangerous work for less than a “living” wage IS THE SAME AS STEALING. You are stealing the workers “time”, why shouldn’t you be willing to compensate?

      I remember when I thought someone making $50 thousand a year was rich. Now, in most of the country, that’s just squeaking by. The world has changed. You can no longer get a good cigar for 5 cents. I don’t think you could get a good cigar for less than 20 dollars. Now, I think, that’s a 400% increase. So, what you call “stealing” is nothing more than me “reacquiring that which belong to me.”

      Power to the People

      • Vigilant

        KG’s ignorance shows with “when I help you to acquire said money, I think it’s only fair to ask for that portion that, in reality, I created through my labor. In other words, any value you gained through my selling of MY LIFE, I think I deserve.”

        It’s obvious you don’t have a clue. By your philosophy, tell me how I get back the taxes I paid to support the welfare queens, lazy bastards, food stamp and medicaid recipients.

        Your understanding of economics and math is so limited that I wonder you could be a communist at all.

        First, learn how to spell the word. It’s “capital,” not “capitol.” Secondly, get off that old half truth that capital cannot exist without labor. There’re possibly trillions in capital held by business on the sidelines in this country as we speak. It’s not chasing labor, nor will it until this socialist government backs off and creates a climate favorable to investment.

        Secondly, work on you math skills. From 5 cents to $20.00 is an increase of 39,900%

        The first three words in your posting were “I don’t understand.” How absolutely right you are.

      • KG

        Vigilant – thanks for the Info. I appreciate what you had to say. I will be the first to admit I’m not the “sharpest tool in the wood pile” ;)

        However, I know where my “blessings” flow. Directly from my Local Union. Ya know, I don’t make the wages i do because I’m special or something, It’s from the former members who sacrificed and died so I could enjoy the American dream. Now, the BA in my local union drives a new GMC Denali. Am I jealous? No. He work’s hard for us. And we as a union knew about it and VOTED on it. How many corporations have to ask their employes if they want to buy a new car? The President is right. We just disagree on “fundamental” level about things. I believe in our Nation. And I want it to prosper as well. Do we do that through “tax breaks?” Or do we pay people a wage that’s worthy of the Labor they produce? I guess the work you do is worthless. Sorry about that.

        Power to the People

      • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        I’ve read most of the comments here and I find KG’s comments to be intelligent and well thought out. They are food for thought. You may not agree with him and that is your right but at least he is showing you one side of the story which many of you have not even considered. He is engaging the conversation, providing alternative viewpoints and obviously enraging many of you to respond with the usual unnecessary and vile VITRIOLE.

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          KG: Have you ever heard about the basic economic concept of supply and demand? Have you ever read anything written by economists Henry Hazlitt, Walter Williams, Milton Friedman, or Thomas Sowell? If you don’t like to read, you can find them on YouTube.

  • Karolyn

    I would submit that they weren’t booing God but booing the committee buckling under to presssure – copping out, as it were.

    • Dan

      Hello” karolyn were you awake when you made that statemen. The same people boeing were the ones who just voted against “GOD”.

      • eddie47d

        That is a stretch Dan. Jerusalem is the contentious issue in that vote and also the voting process in how they achieved it. The Democrats didn’t boo God but the fact that the Israeli’s know that Jerusalem is also sacred to the Muslims. If Israel insists that this city is their Capitol then that leaves the Muslims out and the Palestinian problem of statehood gets derailed again. As we all know each side over there feels slighted in the loss of land. Today the Jewish population is the one confiscating/buying land as their own and kicking the Arab owners out. The same in Jerusalem where the Arabs(Palestinians) don’t have the money to keep their homes so the Israeli’s win by shear wealth not because they are necessarily right in doing so. Shame on the Republicans for saying they were booing God for that wasn’t what that booing was about.

      • Proud to be a Believer

        Eddie you are a crackpot and do not have a clue about Israel. They won their land fair and square and then in 1948 in a 7 day war took Jerusalem over from the Arabs and unfortunately didn’t kick out all Arabs but let them remain in the land. Their holy land is primarily Mecca not the Dome of the Rock. The only reason they build that mosque was because that rock was sacred to the Jews. That is where Abraham under orders of God was to sacrifice Isaac his son which he was going to do and when God saw his faith God provided a sheep for the sacrifice. The Palastians have never had their own land .. Its like saying Midwesterners here in the USA, its an area. The land called Israel was deeded by God to Abraham and included all the area from where they are present day all the way to the Euphrates River. It is an actual deed that was filed, just like the deed to any property is filed however, that will only come back to play after the tribulation. Anyhow, I digress, the Israels offered to build new homes for the displaced Palestians who had been uprooted from their homes because of war. Didn’t read that in any papers now did you. Whatever anybody says, the Jews will never be eradicated as they are God’s chosen people however that does not apply to Muslims or Arabs that stemmed from Ishmael. Just watch and see.

      • eddie47d

        Israel is in a unique situation and I don’t envy their vulnerability but they will survive. You like to make a point about the Midwest USA so should some rich New Yorker buy them all out and say it is fair .You know I’ve got a gun and $50,000 for your $200,000 home which would you like? Should another country invade the Midwest and say it is now a part of their country and to heck the the current owners. Maybe you are the crackpot. .

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Who is the entity who was forcing the platform to make this decision to first take God and Israel out of the equation and then putting it all back in knowing if it wasn’t there the election is lost?

  • Warrior

    osama is dead, gm is dying (again) and America is on “Life Support”. Time for all “progressives” to get the heave – ho.

    “God” these people are disgusting.

    BTW, I passed by a popular “Dodge” dealership in my area yesterday and much to my suprise the lot was full of these cute little mailboxes with wheels on them. I think they are called Fiat. Barely bigger than a breadbox. Kinda makes me think that mr. chu may get his european gas price wish. Hmmm, I wonder who would have saw this coming? Do tell.

    • Karolyn
      • DaveH

        Big Whoop. Who was President one year ago?

    • dan

      They’re for people that can’t ride a Harley …and look marvelous

      • Robert Smith

        Ahhhhh, fond memories. For a couple of years my only transportation was an Indian 80, complete with stick shift when it was simply an old bike, not the classic it is today. Harlies are for whimps.

        Ro

      • Maryland Freestater

        “They’re for people that can’t ride a Harley.”

        LIKE!! Except my wife won’t let me ride hers…

        I am sick of this religious stuff here. As a Post-Christian (believer in Christ but NOT in religion and the organizations that have sprung up around it – I can read the Bible and interpret it for myself, thank you), I respect others’ right to believe whatever the hell they want to. ‘Religion’ is a means to control people, a source of income and something people need to be able to deal with the Infinite. Voodoo for the modern age.

        Humanity needs to grow up. Growing up means rejecting the absurdities of religion (not religion itself). For the mock-muslims that are stirring up crap in the Mideast, they need to study the Koran a bit better – because they are violating a lot of their own tenets. I remember the first time I heard of the Taliban (“seminarians”) and their evil acts, I wondered just how much Christian fundamentalists would act the same given the r4ight circumstances.

        Growing up also means to become more tolerant. Sure, gayness goes against the grain for most people here, myself included, but are they not Americans too? Just by birthright have they not been given the right to pursue life as they see fit? For all of you religious types here, rather than being judgmental, try this – LET GOD JUDGE THEM! Irt’ll help you sleep better at night. One thing gays DON’T have the right to do is force others to accept their lifestyle. Then again, isn’t that what LIBERALS try to do???

        For the ‘muslims’ who are starting crap now, well, if they want crap they should be crapped on, often and with extreme prejudice. They had absolutely no right to start this crap and should really be punished for the murder of Americans. Islam itself isn’t ‘bad’ – how many of YOU posters and readers here have read the Koran (or the Bible for that matter)? It’s a lot more cultural chauvinism causing the problems.

        Remember a couple of things Jesus Josephson Davis said 2000 years ago – ‘Render unto Caesar’ and ‘Worship none but GOD alone.’. I accept the ‘triune’ nature of God as a believer but i worship GOD alone. I venerate Jesus but do NOT worship him. And neither should you all.

      • dan

        I wish they were idiot proof…I fell off mine and am still limping. Had Yamahas ,Hondas and my boys have ridden Kawasaki &Susuki ,sigh….buying in America isn’t much solace for HD
        (hundred dollar) parts….but it beats pedaling.

    • eddie47d

      So Karolyn does that mean Romney is lying in his political ads or is slightly mistaken.

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      “progressives” are citizens of the US and, as such, have as much right to their say in the running of it as non-progressives.

      BTW, I thought that progress was a good thing, not a bad thing.

      • DaveH

        Progressives are those who favor Big Government to foist their agenda on other people. There are Liberal Progressives and NeoConservative Progressives. Both with different agendas but both sharing the lust for Power and Big Government.
        Progressives are simply promoting the age old agenda of Serfdom. They represent Progress in name only — a typical tactic used by those dishonest Leaders who want to rule other peoples’ personal lives. It is a proven fact that the Bigger Government gets, the Smaller that country’s Economy gets. Anybody who can call that “progress” is simply deluded. See here for proof:
        http://heritage.org/index/ranking

        If you want the small minority of Leaders and their Crony Capitalists to benefit at the rest of our expense, then you will vote for Progressives.

  • Nottakenyan

    The Democrats are for abortion and condoms and against christianity and religion.

    So why would a Catholic cardinal from the AD of New York give the closing prayer???

    How do you spell “hypocrite”?

    • Karolyn

      Any religious leader who would refuse to pray at any public function would be a hypocrite. After all, the main point is salvation and not politics isn’t it?

      • dan

        …then he was in a target rich environment

      • Robert Smith

        Target rich… Yup there was that 17 year old boy at the Republican convention.

        Rob

      • dan

        ?????????

    • Vigilant

      Karolyn, you are correct.

      http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/30/archdiocese-cardinal-dolan-prayers-for-both-rnc-and-dnc-pastoral-not-political/

      “Cardinal Timothy Dolan’s appearance Thursday night at the Republican National Convention, according to the New York Archdiocese, is purely pastoral. No politics involved, even though the cardinal has been embroiled in a political fight with the Obama administration for months now over religious liberty — specifically, the health care law’s contraception mandate.”

      His appearance at BOTH conventions was a sign of his commitment to religious principle, NOT hypocrisy by any means.

    • Maryland Freestater

      Hopefully he prayed there for the same reasons that Jesus used to visit and socialize with sinners.

      • dan

        LMAO :) Favorite T-shirt is a Nun in a habit on a bike:
        Caption is:
        Where There Is Sin There I Must Go

  • Romney

    Chip Wood, no, but Romney is done after he put his foot in his mouth about the embassy attacks. Your boy is well-known for it.

    • Flashy

      Neithr Romney nor ryan are ready for prime Time. Remember the blind Chinese dissident? there were high level closed door talks going on, very sensitive time, and Romney goes and very loudly and very publicly blasts both the Chinese government and our government and calls for ‘forcing the freedom’ of the dissident.

      thankfully, both our government and the Chinese government recognized him as a blow hard fool…and a few days later a way was worked out and the dissident was freed and in the US.

      Then, on his “foreign policy” trip…he screws the pooch dissing the Brits first off, then creates a diplomatic issue in Israel toeing the Netanyahu hard liner stance … and signalling he is willing to place the US at the power and behest of the Idraeli government, in essence, making us an Israeli province …

      Now comes the ME crisis and Romney again goes off half cocked, uninformed, and radical…ensuring is he was in charge, the entire mess would be spiraling out of control.

      Yeah….Romney in charge sure would make the world safer … jeesh

  • Paul Wells

    As swampfox observed in the earlier post…this HAS been all foretold, and if there is anything totally chilling about it, it is the exactness of how those prophesies foretold so long ago are coming into fruition. There will be a “come to Jesus” meeting soon, and it will be mandatory. So, atheists and agnostics, and all non-believers will have to attend, and believe me, it won’t be pleasant for them!

    • KG

      “They” are going to hell, anyways – right? Isn’t that what you think? Or is that what you hope for?

      It’s not Christ I reject, it is all of His “so-called” representatives who spout religiosity, and, yet, seem to be the most pitiful examples of Humans. Thomas Jefferson had a name for these people. He called them “pseudo Christians.” People who claim Christ,and deny the very aspects that made His message.

      Did Christ say “Bomb your enemies, kill their children and Deny comfort for those who need it?”

      Read the message to the last church – it fits you FOX viewers to a “T.”

      • dan

        Ron Paul took that route and was disenfranchised by the godless atheist Karl Rove machine

      • eddie47d

        That would be the Republican Right.

      • Gordon

        I said above that, the people claimed they did the work of Jesus, and Jesus told them,”depart from me I never knew you”.

        Jesus also said, “Unless you come as a little child, you will in no wise see the kingdom of God”

        and

        Jesus also said, “My sheep hear my voice and they follow me”.

        IT IS JUST NOT THAT TOUGH, PEOPLE.

        religion is what makes it tough.

      • cawmun cents

        Is this the same kind of HUMAN that will damn Christianity for the Inqusition?
        Or tell us how we brutalized the entire continent of what is now called North America in order to push our religion?
        They will put us all to the guilt and shame of such horrendous things in the name of what they term “christianity.”
        Yet dont you dare say that all Muslims are to blame for 9/11!
        That is wrong!
        Notice the double standard they have to push at every opportunity.
        These same secular humanists that claim Christianity is the bringer of all these terrible things which happened in the world,and yet as they blame us all…every Jesus lovin’ one of us,for the things which we have done in the name of our God,dont you dare apply those same standards to anyone else!
        Nope.
        That is very wrong to say that all Muslims have done is to cause unrest and set the clock back to the seventh century everywhere they go….just wrong.
        But its perfectly allright to do that to Christians!
        Yep…they can stomp us (christians) into the mud at every opportunity…but damn us all if the shoe goes to someone elses’ foot!
        They use those very same standards at every opportunity,and glorify doing it as if it were a badge of greatness.
        But do they know what they are storing up fro themselves for doing that?
        Jesus said,

        John 15:18-27…18″When the world hates you,remember that it hated me before it hated you.”19″The world would love you if you belonged to it,but you dont.I chose you to come out of the world,and so it hates you.”20″Do you remember what I told you?A servant is not greater than the master.Since they persecuted me,naturally they will persecute you.And if they listened to me they would listen to you!”21″The people of the world hate you because you belong to me,for they dont know God who sent me.”22″They would not be guilty if I had not come and spoken to them.But now they have no excuse for their sin.”23″Anyone who hates me hates my Father too.”24″If I hadnt done such miraculous signs among them,that no one else could do,then they wouldnt be counted guilty.But as it is,they saw all that I did,and yet hated both of us–me and my Father.”25″This has fulfilled what the Scriptures said:’They hated me without cause’*”
        26″But I will send you the Councelor*–the Spirit of truth.He will come to you from the Father and wiill tell you all about me.”27″And you must tell others about me because you have been with me from the beginning.”-NLT-

        So make no mistake…we as Christians know why you hate us….but we try to live among you and love you despite the fact that you hate us.
        But I doubt you will curry that kind of favor from the Muslims.
        I dont say that it will not happen…just that I doubt it.
        So you can have the Muslims,and even accept that they want to replace your laws with theirs.But they wont do it by going to court,or complaining to the press.
        They will bomb you and kill you at every opportunity.
        Because dear friends….they do that….even to each other.
        How much less will they treat with respect,those who dont believe in God at all.
        -CC.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Paul: Do I have to wear a tie?

  • Doc Sarvis

    Another installment of “no news is good news” on this site.
    You folks are grasping at straws again.

    • Flashy

      Doc…romney omitted any mention of financial reform, Afghanistan, our veterans, climate change, immigration, health care, social security nd mentioned medicaid only once. Ya think these yahoo’s will make a great hue and cry about it?

      As for President Obama’s acceptance speech. Those who state it was a dead and flat speech, either were expecting a great oration which wasn’t what he needed to do, or is denigrating it because they can’t say anything positive since it would go against their grain of tearing this nation down.

      He spoke about what needed to be said. The great emotional oration was Pres. Clinton’s role…which he hit it out of the park. Pres. Obama was cool, calm, matter of fact and said it as it needed to be said. he is our leader. “I am the President” was never so well stated in body and language.

      it was a fantastic speech. Calm, reassuring, laying out the path ahead, looking forward not backward…a leader was speaking. And no matter what crisis occurs, there is no one who has to worry..Obama has our back. it may be chaotic, it may be a concern, but it will be under control. With Romney, we’d have to worry about him being under control and not escalating it out of control.

      Heck…take just the recent crisis with the terrorist attack in Libya and the riots in Egypt. Obama was calm, found out what was happening, assessed the situation..and it may be messy, but he’s got it under control. Libya’s president…in Arabic, took to the airwaves and apologized, hauling in a few misreants for questioning, and cooperating fully. Egypt’s Pres. was read the frippin’ riot act, told in no uncertain words to toe the line..and now we have armed troops protecting the embassy and he’s chastized and giving the signs eventually hell get his act (and his country) under control and toe the line as well. Obama and Clinton ripped into him, reminded him he was no longer the opposition but represented his nation, and it’ll come around.

      Romney flies off the handle, rips into OUR embassy people, and is in a panic and having no clue how to handle a crisis except to jump in, be reactionary and fly off the handle, and really screw it up.

      And….most important …Pres. Obama ASKED for our vote. Romney imperialistically didn’t think that was worthwhile to ask for.

      • Thinking About

        Good points

      • John Woodbury

        Wow, Flus er Flashy, please send me what ever you are smoking, I need some of that s^%t.

  • Dave67

    Wow Chip….Mis-characterizing the booing to fit your narrative that you and other conservatives want to portray? Never…

    The booing was the cow-towing to the phoney BS issue of “god” not in the platform and “Jerusalem” not in the platform as the capital if Israel even though the US Gov has never formally recognized Jerusalem as the capital, only 2 countries in the world do… Guatemala and El Salvador are the only countries that do….

    Liars, Hypocrites and phonies are the hallmark of the conservative movement in America.

    • dan

      wow….touche….or is it bazinga
      that’s why i enjoy the comments Dave67

  • Gea

    It is not God’s fault that people behave so vilely! Obama clearly does not believe in God of Christians and Jews but Allah, who is a nasty guy promoting murder, pedophilia, polygamy and misogyny. Obama is directly and indirectly responsible for the gruesome murder of US Ambassador in Libya, because he let Muslim Brothers into the White house and help depose of secular dictators and replace them by Islamists.

    Barak Hussein Obama is responsible for preventing US marines to carry live munitions to defend our diplomats and he neglected warnings about this new 9/11 attack on US embassies. Obama should resign and NOT seek another term for the office for which he is not competent and downright dangerous to US and entire Western civilization. He will lose in a landslide in November and take down with him democrats who had allowed him to bring Muslim Brotherhood into the White house. This BIG Muslim Brother in the Oval Office will be defeated.

    • dan

      which proves that there ARE worse things than being agnostic

    • eddie47d

      Gea whizz! Obama is not a Muslim or a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Marines are allowed to carry live ammunition to defend the consulates and precautions were taken BEFORE the 9/11 anniversary. You can’t always predict an angry mob and what they will do so enough of your angry misguided bluster. That mudslinger who produced that anti-Muslim video is far more responsible for those deaths than your cheap shots. He even duped the actors in that film and dubbed over their voices with his own chosen words to entice this Muslim reaction. That is how low this conservative stooped to cause death and destruction. If you pay attention to the real news Terry Jones (Florida pastor) also was involved in making this film. Don’t you think it’s time to reign in your hotheads once in awhile so these embassy killings don’t happen. Another one of your lies that need to be debunked is that Obama does not endorse pedophilia or polygamy. Although I think you do know who does have the inside scoop on polygamy.

      • Flashy

        Eddie…i wouldn’t count out pedophilia being one of the “knowledgeable insights” of the GOP.

        i call to mind … Mark Foley, Larry Craig, ted Haggard, Alan David Berlin (aide for Senator Jane Orie of Pennsylvania. He is also a furry who contacted a fifteen year old boy over the internet, and offered to “yiff” the boy in a panda outfit,) etc etc

      • Gordon

        Eddie what the heck planet are you from????? Obama has stated that he is a muslim, supports muslim values for himself and his family, etc. Click on youtube and watch Obama say it.

      • eddie47d

        He was a Muslim as a child in Indonesia and understand their culture but he is no longer one. We need folks running the show who are knowledgeable about various religions and cultures within our world. I look at that as a positive not a negative.

      • Karolyn

        Gordon – edited videos are proof of nothing! Do you believe everything you see and hear on the internet? Oh, yeah, only the stuff that fits in with agenda.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Flashy,”

        Former Senator Larry Craig (R-ID), DID NOTHING WRONG. I, TOO, HAVE A “WIDE-STANCE.” Senator Craig WAS “RAILROADED.”

      • Palin16

        edduh, don’t make me laugh. Obummer was a muslim as a child but now he’s a Christian??
        Who converted him, Jeremiah Wright?

    • Flashy

      jeesh..another faked lie about marines not carrying loaded weapons while guarding our embassies. You guys really make this stuff up don’t you?

      ” Pentagon spokesman George Little told Time magazine Thursday: “With or without a weapon, Marines are always armed…I’ve heard nothing to suggest they don’t have ammunition.”

      Additionally, per Time, the Marine Corps said in a statement late Thursday that any reports “of Marines not being able to have their weapons loaded per direction from the ambassador are not accurate.” ”

      http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report-marines-guarding-u-s-embassy-in-cairo-were-barred-from-carrying-live-ammo/

      • eddie47d

        Thanks Flashy for Gea is stirring up trouble like that video producer did. No difference.

  • Tim L.

    It’s a pretty poor God that needs a government to further His cause!

  • rb

    “Free icecream” will always win.

  • Alex

    This was indeed a very embarrassing moment. It was needless and was obviously and very awkwardly done to appease undecided voters.

    President Obama’s address was flat and disappointing.

    Mitt Romney went through his entire speech without ONCE mentioning the troops in harm’s way—the very troops HE wants to command! Unbelievable. I have watched just about every acceptance speech by the nominees of both major parties since 1964 and
    I do not remember ANY nominee, of either party, ever so shamelessly snubbing our
    military. And in a TIME OF WAR? Unconscionable! Clearly, Romney is no leader. He goosesteps ALL OVER the current crisis with our embassies, attempts to discredit our
    president during a most delicate foreign emergency, for political coin, without knowing the
    facts. He is a disgrace, and that he is dropping in the polls like a stone indicates that the voting public is wise to him.

    While it looks pretty clear that President Obama will be reelected in November, the question becomes “Are Americans actually sick enough now of their new Tea Party Congress, the LOWEST-RATED House in its 200-odd year history, to deny them four more years of obstruction by giving them the boot?” Let’s hope so.

    It is time for this cranky old dog of a country to move forward or be left behind in the dustbin of History, with the USSR, Nazi Germany, and the British Empire….

    • Warrior

      After his jimmy carter moment, this will turn into a route. Shoot first my a$$. This gang doesn’t even know where the range is let alone how to handle the fireworks! Talk about acting “stupidly”. This guy and his followers of malcontents, hags and thugs are absolutely useless sponges.

      • dan

        LMAO…ding-ding :)

    • rb

      I’m sorry but I think you mis-spoke yourself in your post. You said “It is time for this cranky old dog of a country to move forward or be left beind in the dustbin of History, with the USSR, Nazi Germany, and the British Empire…” However you contradict yourself by your support of Mr. Obama. By supporting Mr. Obamma I believe what you meant to say was “It is time for this cranky old dog of a country to move forward AND become more like the USSR, and Nazi Germany.” What’s in a name? That which we call Fascism. By any other name would still smell…..

    • eddie47d

      Obviously Romney has made some misguided and poor missteps especially after the embassy attack .Even rookie Obama has more military leadership than Romney for he shoots from the hip and Obama thinks things out. Romney should have proven his military “readiness” in his last try for the Presidency and he is still dropping the ball. Mr Romney needs to stick to economic issues for he fails on everything else.

      • Flashy

        Romney can’t even explain how the numbers add up in his “economic plan’. He insists on keeping everything secret and we can ‘trust him” and assume the arithmetic adds up…even though there is no way it possibly can …

    • Bob Jeffrey

      I think, by now, that most voters recognize that Gov. Romney is intellectually dishonest. Intellectually he must recognize that President Obama has no control over what might happen overseas, yet he politicizes a national tragedy for his own personal political gain. This is dishonest and dishonorable.

      Likewise, he tells us he has a plan to balance the budget that most likely will include eliminating mortgage deductions, charitable deductions and other current benefits, but refuses to disclose specifics so we can have an honest debate. “Trust me”, he says as he does with his request for trust about the contents of his tax returns, but he, along with all Americans should remember President Reagan’s admonition: “Trust, but verify.”

      Americans are being asked to elect a Chief Executive Officer. A statement of what a candidate would propose to do, if elected, is certainly a legitimate expectation of the electorate. Surely, Mr. Romney, at Bain Capital, would vet any senior officer he was considering hiring and I am sure he vetted Paul Ryan’s tax returns. He cannot, legitimately, ask us to accept less vetting for the most important office in the world.

    • Gordon

      Dec 2012 is the end of life as we have known it. Socio-economic collapse is inevitable. The only question this election will answer is “will the next 5 Supreme Court Justices be Constitutionalists or socialists”.

    • Frank

      I will admit, I have not had the chance to see Romney’s response to the ACT OF WAR against our embassy. As such, I cannot either defend or condem him. I would like to point out that the embassy sits on United States property and, there were 4 American citizens killed in what was described as a possibly pre-planned military style attack.

      Perhaps you people are right and we have no business in Egypt, but even so that does not give them the right to attack and murder our citizens. Our government is required by the constitution to protect and defend citizens of our nation (especially on U.S. soil).

      We have two choices here, be chicken sh*t and turn tail and run or, stand up for justice and give a show of defensive force that makes the terrorists pay attention to their own mortality.

      If we back down in the face of terrorism, we will be forever losing. Never again will the world believe in our ability to protect freedom.

      9-11 was not an act of terrorism perpetrated by Islam, it was a staged false flag. Building 7 was taken down by high explosives in a controlled implosion.

      But we are at war with the nation of Islam. We are at war because they declared war on us many decades ago. They declared war on us because we are, acording to them, minions of evil who must be destroyed (killed) in the name of Allah.

      In a way I agree with you, we as a nation must go forward if we want to survive. To do this we must get rid of all Muslim influence in our government, starting with Obama. We must return to God (not the satan in the Qur’an). It is, as the Muslims say, Jihad (holy war) God against Satan. Or, Jehova (Yawah) against Allah.

      Read your Bible, it tells about the breaking of the seven seals in the end of times. This is Gods war which begins with the Black horse (first seal) an attack on the Jewish holy city of Jerusalem. The temple on the mount is not a Mosque. Jerusalem is and always has been the capital of Israel. The breaking of the seven seals means total world war, will the U.S. be a part of it in defense of Israel (God)? I dont know, but as a true Christian, I hope we will because it is a part of Gods judgement of nations. Those who opose Israel shall not see victory but shall perish.

      Is this important? Do you believe in God? Will this happen? YES IT WILL HAPPEN AS GOD HAS FORTOLD.

  • Mark

    In removing all references to God from the Democratic platform, you state “it would have marked the first time the Creator was not acknowledged in the platform of either major political party”. To some, this may imply that neither party would have any reference to God, meaning that the Republicans also did not reference him. Surely, you meant to say “…in the platform of ANY political party”.

  • Glen

    God does not need us – we need him! If we choose to go our own way, avoiding any mention of him in public life and asking him to stay out of our affairs, he will do so and events like 9/11 and a destroyed economy are but 2 of the results. We grew great because of his blessing. Without it, there is probably not going to be an “us”. Democrats ingnore this truth and so do many Republicans. First order of business – God. Second, get rid of the current anti-God crowd. Third, support those who put God first: the Conservative Party comes to mind: http://www.conservativepartyusa.org/home/
    Check them out.

    • KG

      Yes, I agree. We must submit to Allah….ooops, my bad. We must submit to the lord of Darkness, Baphomet…..Uh, sorry bout that. How about “Creative Force?” Ummm… let’s just call the whole thing off.

      • Flashy

        KG…not to worry.

        Religion is alive and well being referenced nightly at Flashy’s School for Wayward Girls and Fallen Women. With the number of applicants for the teaching positions, school policy has students interviewing the applicants. Many a night one can hear echoing throughout the halls references to god. In some cases, usually those who are acceptable to student for teaching positions… the references are to the trilogy…”Oh gawd, oh gawwd…OH GAWWWWWDDDDDD”

        Of course, there is a small ‘application fee’ (no checks…cash or card only) for those wishing to be considered for faculty positions….

      • KG

        To a female student “As A professor, may I suggest some in-depth tutoring, perhaps over diner? ;)”

    • eddie47d

      Yes God is an important issue to discuss but Conservatives always use my God to get us into wars and the Democrats have pulled that stunt before also. We must attack Iraq in the name of God.( Bush) We must slaughter thousands in Central America in the name of God. (Reagan) We must defeat godless communism in Vietnam in the name of our God. (Johnson). Too many Believers use God for wicked purposes and that includes those Elites in the NWO who have an economic appetite for world conquests too. Bad enough we have politicians who use God to get us involved in false flag operations but we also bow down to these economic mavericks (Banksters) who pray on Sunday and then wreck havoc the rest of the week. God has been used for centuries to wage wars and garner wealth and this century is no different.

      • Vigilant

        “Bad enough we have politicians who use God to get us involved in false flag operations…”

        When did you become a conspiracy theorist?

      • DaveH

        Use God to get us in False Flag operations, Eddie? That makes no sense.

    • Thomas the Doubter

      The problem with putting god first, is that then you get all the infighting about who is truly worthy to interpret what it’s desire for humanity is, which then leads to religious wars, which then leads to revolution from those not wanting to war anymore, which then leads to democracy which leads to infighting about whether god should be put first…..
      Its pure and simple idiocy, between two groups, those who can’t or won’t think for themselves vs. those who think its god’s will that they think for everyone else.
      To those on god’s side, “shut the *&^*&% up”, pretending to think you know what’s best for everyone else! And to those on the other side,”shut the *&%*&6 up” and start thinking for yourself! Either way start coming up with solutions rather than the same old SAME OLD ! Its only a “life and death issue” if you make it into one. ( which is kinda the other problem, deciding what is and what is not worth dying for…. politics isn’t
      nor is religion, abortion isn’t, health care isn’t, immigration policy, no!, false flags, definitely no, invasion by foreigners… isn’t that just an immigration policy?,so no…..
      But if you really want to die for something you think is important like the “will of god”
      keep up this nonsense and you will get your chance.

      ps for those religious people with the big hearts, please don’t pray for me, pray for yourselves, pray for understanding and patience, pray for endurance and clear thinking
      but by all means pray in silence. Oh yea those of the false religious discipline that wish i go to hell….. see you there!

  • JC

    The Kenyan is anything but boring. He’s more like watching a major train wreck happen in slow motion. Or perhaps a kid playing with matches at a gas pump. Horrifying…but not boring.

    • KG

      I took a speech class in 1990, and i was speaking against the war. I referred to the President as “Bush.” And the teacher told me that even though I may disagree with his policies, it was inappropriate to refer to our President that way. She said “…you should call him Mr. Bush.” So, when you say “Kenyan”, what are you trying to say? If you are a “birther” then why was John McCain allowed to run since he was actually born in Panama – which makes Mr. Obama MORE American than McCane.

      Stop doing your sister and get a real job. Ooops… didn’t “mean” to offend ;)

      • Proud to be a Believer

        Just to set the record straight once and for all, John McCain was not born in Panama. At the time of his birth, he was born in Gorgos Hospital which was in the Canal Zone and until the wonderful president Mr. Carter gave away the Canal, the Canal Zone was USA territory like Embassy’s are around the world. So get off it. My son was born in Ankara Turkey but still could run for President because both his father and myself are USA citizens and his father was a member of the US Navy at the time.

      • Hurt Burt

        Both of McCain’s parents were citizens. How does make Obama more of a citizen with only his mother being a citizen?

      • Gordon

        Proud to say AMEN to Proud!!!!

      • Frank

        Please stop the stupidity KG, it is well documented that McCain was born to two American citizens. He was born in a hospital designated as official U.S. land for the purpose of births that happened while government employees were stationed in Panama. He has a U.S. birth certificate and was vetted when he ran for president.

        Barak, on the other hand, has not been vetted. He refuses to provide authentic legal proof of his birth in Hawaii. His reported father was not a U.S. citizen.

        And, calling me a birther is neither accurate nor does it diminish my assertions of facts. If Barak Obama was not born in Kenya as his grandmother said, then prove it. He is hiding because he is lying. That is a reasonable assumption.

        Also, as they say, diversion is a tool of deceit. You can’t prove Obama is legitimate so you try to change the subject to the qualifications of someone else. Right now it does not matter if McCain is from Alpha Centuri, he is not the president, Barak Obama is and is required to be a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. Prove it!!!

        I am an old white man. Take my word for it, or do you want to see me in person to prove it?

      • Flashy

        “Barak, on the other hand, has not been vetted. He refuses to provide authentic legal proof of his birth in Hawaii. His reported father was not a U.S. citizen.” <—Frank

        OK..think it through. Hawaii says they have the Birth Certificate. If it's a fake, now sit back and think it through.

        First, his mother at his birth would have to realize Barack would one day be in line for the presidency so she'd line up a US BC..an illegal one at that. This is pre-Civil Rights days and the idea a mulatto would ever rise to even run for Presidency was a very very far fetched idea.

        Then, she'd have to line up the doctor, nurses, the hospital staff, the local newspaper, all to fake a BC and come up with similar stories.

        She'd also have to have the Immigration and State Department in on the deal and erase all records of her entering the US with a new born. Ditto from the country she was coming from (I presume you'd say Kenya)…And don't forget the airline as well for the passenger lists to be erased.

        All that for a mulatto being born pre-Civil Rights because they all believed and knew one day he'd grow up and be President.

        Hokayyyyyyy …. seems like it would be something they'd do for a woman who was a nothing, no pull, no money, and abandoned by her African husband…

        Jeesh ….

        I swear..to be a TPer you have to check your brains and common sense in at the door….

        • Frank

          okay flushy, unlike you, thinking comes very easy to me. Research is also something I do daily, sometimes several hours of it.

          First of all I am not a TP person, I think much of their philosophy is good when it comes to smaller government but I dont join parties.

          Now to your several points, none of which makes sense if you operate in the 60′s or 70′s. Yes, expecting a Black man (or even mullato) to be president back then was unthinkable. Where you make your mistake is in presuming that the decision to hide his origin was made back then. You also seem to presume that this was done by his mother instead of being fomented by the rich elite.

          I can refute each item you mentioned, however since you are either too stupid or too stuborn to accept facts it wont make much difference.

          On the birth certificate:
          1. Obama produced a certificate of live birth long form (not a birth certificate) which was a forgery
          2. Hawaii SAYS he was born there (refuse to produce his BC claiming official policy against it).
          3. The hospital listed on the certificate of live birth did not exist until almost 10 years later.
          4. The race of the father was African (that is a nationality not a race), which was not in use till 20 years later. (if his father was African then Barak is not qualified to be president)

          So in conclusion, using rational thinking, there is no actual BC available showing he was born in Hawaii.

          On being born in Kenya:
          1. His grandmother said she was present at his birth in Kenya
          2. His wife called Kenya his home country.
          3. His official bio for selling his book listed him as a Kenyan
          4. Kenya has stated that records pertaining to the time of his birth are missing.

          On travel into and out of the U.S.
          1. All records of flight arrivals in Hawaii during the months following his birth are missing.
          2. Immigration records coinciding with his return from India are missing.
          3. His educational records from college are missing (hidden)

          In conclusion, using rational thinkiing, someone is going to great lengths to hide significant events relating to his past. If he is a legitimate NATURAL BORN CITIZEN, why is all of this information missing or hidden?

          Now, Flashy, without using your stupid TP and american taliban BS, refute my statements using citations of fact. Don’t try to use the Democrat party line of deception. If the records of incoming flights to Hawaii for the time around his birth are available then you can find them in the public domain.

          And just because I read all your stupidity I am aware of your lack of ability to discuss things in a rational way. I have only read one post by you that made any sort of sense in a normally acceptable way.

          PS One of Gods rules is “thou shalt not bear false witness”. I strive to follow that by being truthfull to the best of my ability and seeking the truth through research not just spewing unfounded opinions.

      • KG

        Nazism

        Now
        go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs
        to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and
        infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
        1 Samuel 15:3

      • Flashy

        Frank…i’m not wasting time on your falsities. Unbelievable…that’s the only words that can be used. that a seemingly grown adult would be as hoodwink as a birther is…absolutely blind to the absurdity of the issue.

        Even birthers are recognizing that they are viewed as one foot across the threshold of the lunatic asylum. Now, even as they spout the claptrap, they deny they’re ‘birthers” …. jeesh.

        Bunch of frippin’ lunatics…

        • Frank

          like I said, answer my facts instead of the stupid BS you always pull about birthers. He is a lying piece of sh#t. He is a muslim by his own words. He is not qualified to hold the office of president because he is not a natural born citizen.

          You show your ignorance in all your postings because you fail to even attempt to hold an intelligent conversation.

          dont talk to me, that is fine because you have nothing worth hearing.

      • Vigilant

        Craig’s List ad:

        FIFTY YEAR OLD MANURE SPREADER – $1 (WASHINGTON, DC)
        Fifty-year old manure spreader. Not sure of brand. Said to have been produced in Kenya.
        Used for a few years in Indonesia before being smuggled into the US via Hawaii.
        Of questionable pedigree. Does not appear to have ever been worked hard.
        Apparently, it was pampered by various owners over the years.
        It doesn’t work very often, but when it does it can sling crap for amazing distances.
        I am hoping to retire the manure spreader this November.
        I really don’t want it hanging around getting in the way. I would prefer a foreign buyer
        to relocate the manure spreader out of the country.
        I would be willing to trade it for a nicely framed copy of the United States Constitution.
        Location: Currently being stored in a big white house in Washington, D.C.

        • Proud to be a Believer

          That was classic!!!! I have sent out to my entire email group!!!

      • Smilee

        Frank says:
        September 14, 2012 at 3:44 pm

        FACTS???? What a joke, all 11 of your fantasy facts that you list as facts have been fully debunked and found to be totally false. It is you whom lacks the ability to know facts from fiction. Just admit it you hate the man so you feel it justifies your lies.

        • Frank

          As I have said before Smilee, I only hate stupid. Stupid is as stupid does or says. You are in the book of stupid.

          • Smilee

            The truth bites doesn’t it frankie! Isn’t it ironic that people whom accuse others of being stupid only show how much more stupid they are themselves, your totally out of touch with reality and you continuously portray the true as falsehoods, now that is really stupid. Being called stupid by someone much more stupid than yourself is actually a complement when you take into account the source of stupid no nothing messenger.

          • Frank

            Attempting to prove my intelligence will only let a stupid idiot like you have more crap to claim as false. I have said nothing stupid or untrue on this blog site. I can prove you cannot say the same. The problem with people like you is that you are in an area that precludes your ability to understand your own limits. A smart person can act stupid but a stupid person cannot act smart. I smart person knows he is smart but that does not help in an arguemet because a stupid person also thinks he is smart since he is too stupid to know he is stupid.

            If you really want to determine my intelligence please feel free to ask me anthing that has a specific answer not something that relies on opinion since your opinion is invalid in determining the accuracy of my answer.

            If it would help you I could provide you with a digital copy of my college transcript which would give some indication of my ability to learn at a high level.

            If this is not acceptable to you then we have nothing to discuss because you give no facts for dispute or rebuttal.

            I maintain that your stated opinions on all subjects you speak on are of limited worth. You spew opinions as if they are facts. Your world view is way off in left field from my perspective. Does this make you wrong? Well that has to be determined by a majority of the members of society. I vote you are very wrong. My vote counts for as much as yours so we have to let the rest of man kind settle it.

            And just for the record, you do a lot more name calling and innuendo than a reasonable person would on this site. I respond in kind because that is what it appears you understand.

          • Smilee

            Frankie, You Have no intelligence to prove unfortunately you are too stupid to realize that. I have seen very little of what you have said that is not lies and the eleven lies I addressed have been proven to be lies not by me but by many creditable sources and you whom have no credibility expect us to believe you over these honest intelligent people is just ridiculous You write “A smart person can act stupid but a stupid person cannot act smart.” And I agree with that statement and it is the reason you cannot act smart, that is crystal clear to intelligent people. That is as far as I wil respond as your post is pure garbage and not worthy of any further response or acknowledgement but it clearly defines what a stupid fool you are, one who know nothing about what he speaks, Garbage in garbage out, if you seek out the sources of truth you can cure yourself of this but then that would not be a stupid act and I’m not sure you can accomplish that.

          • Frank

            As usual you refuse to speak about the issues and keep slandering me, or is it liabel.

            Your keep saying that the lies are proven lies. Well prove it. And as to your credible sources, a source is only credible when it falls in line with what you think. This is true about all humans not just you or me.

            If you insist on using left wing diatribe as your immutable source of the truth then you are going to fail. I never use a single source for my decissions because all extreme views from either side slant the facts to jive with their views.

            Are we better off than we were 4 years ago? To whom do you put that question? To those of us who have either lost their jobs or been reduced in either wage or work time, the answer is NO. To those of us who have lost a significant portion of our net worth due to the printing of massive amounts of new money, the answer is NO.

            Is our economy getting better? Well, depends on who you ask and what statistics they are using. The stock market is not a valid indicator of the health of the U.S. economy since it will go up if foreigners invest in companies on it. Although you might say that makes our businesses stronger but at the same time it means that foreigners are gaining ownership of and making profit from them.

            Who caused the collapse of our economy? Almost everyone here seems to want to blame either the democratic president or the republican president or the democratic congress or the republican congress. Well, if you investigate everything that has occured in those different scenarios you will find that they are all right. All of the democratic and republican versions have caused massive deficit spending and debt. So who caused the colapse of our economy, it is our government.

            Now, again will you simple call me stupid and refuse to discuss the facts? Who is really being negative and evasive here?

          • Frank

            PS. My name is Frank not frankie. I consider the use of frankie to be an insult and an attempt to make me sound like a little kid. At least I use my real name and not some strange nickname like Smilee. What is that anyway, smile has one E and it is spelled Smiley if you are going for something that tends to smile.

      • Smilee

        Hay frankie suck it up, no one here is more deserving of being insulted than you are. You do that to anyone on whom you inflict your battery of lies on and they have the courage to point that out to you and then you retaliate by the lowest form of insults. I do not insult anyone unless they first insult me and you are among the most guilty of that and not just to me but to anyone whom does not agree with you or is not willing to ignore your long litany of lies but confront you on them. So frankie by boy sit on that!!!!!

        • Frank

          If you are going to persist in claiming I am a liar, I demand that you prove it. I have not one time put forth an idea that is based on missinformation. I have never insulted a person on this blog site that has not demonstrated the propensity of insulting others first. Again you refuse to say anything of substance and insist instead on character assassination.

          Get to the issues here, talk about facts, I am not being unreasonable in this request/demand.

          And again My name is Frank, you cannot change that by calling me a childish name. It is the same with all other facts you try to change by the Smilee decree.

          If you THINK you know of some lie I have told, name it, prove it, defend it.

          I understand logic and statistics. I know that a person can use logic errors to PROVE a point without understanding their errors. I also know that any statistic can be used to prove a given point, whether it is proof of the point or not.

          Our government uses these statistics and logic errors all the time. The biggest one I can think of off the top of my head is that Marijuana is the gateway drug to heroin. They say that all heroin users started by using Marijuana so it is the Marijuana use that lead to heroin. Well I can prove that all heroin users started out their lives using milk so it is milk that leads to heroin use. No, I do not believe that milk drove them to heroin, I am just pointing out the ability to twist a statistic to fit a premise that I wanted to prove.

          So, for a reasonable intelligent and logical discussion, we need to use facts that can be verified with sources other than statistics or another persons (possibly twisted) logic.

          • Smilee

            Frankie, You apparently are not intelligent enough to even know you are lying, its called denial, even this post is nothing but lies and garbage, it is not possible to convince you that your posts are mostly lies and insults when you are so deep in denial, if you really want to know the truth you can find it as it is no real secret. The truth will set you free. Seek and you shall find. I know it will be tuff for you but I do wish you the best of luck.

          • Frank

            The word is spelled tough not tuff, and smileape you are the stupid one. no hope for you ever. I already know the truth but you fail to see it for yourself so leave me alone unless you have something intelligent to say (which will never happen)

          • Smilee

            Frankie, Saying something intelligent would just go right over your head so that option is out. If you ever get back to reality let me know as I am aware that you are out of touch with it now

          • Frank

            Dont worry, I dont expect you to be able to say anything intelligent. I am sure it would cause you too much stress. Ignorance like yours is manifest in your inability and unwillingness to even attempt posing an intelligent statement. This inane banter you insist on can go on forever and you will always come up short on the credability factor.

            I have made several reasonable requests for you to say something substantial but you keep insisting on using unfounded and unqualifiable insults. I will keep hacking away at your mindless drivel as long as you insist on showing your inability to discuss anything of relevance.

            Obama is not stupid, he is just incapable of wanting to do anything quantifiably viable for improving the state of our economy or foreign policy. He thinks the world must work his way no matter how unrealistic the ideas are. He refuses to work with a bi-partisan legislature to pass measures that satisfy (with compromise) all parties involved. He was voted in on racist principles because everyone wanted to finally have a black president. This is not an opinion nor is it a racist remark, reliable sources have surveyed a sampling of the U.S. population and determined that most voted for him because he is black. Even members of my family did this and were insensed that I said he would be a bad leader. Now they agree that it was a mistake to vote for him.

            He has failed to fulfill any of his campaign promises and, not because of obstructionism. Even the democrats in the legislature voted against him.

            Once again I challenge you to try and make an intelligent response to the facts I have presented. Will you, hell no, you will just go back to your stupid frankie insults because you have nothing real to say.

            You will not win this discourse because you refuse to say anything of any value at all.

          • Smilee

            Don’t you realize you are only having a conversation with yourself now, it raises new questions about you.

          • Frank

            The only question raised is why do I bother trying to engage someone like you in an intelligent conversation. You are right, talking with you is less productive than talking with a wall.

          • Smilee

            Bye Frankie by boy, buzz me when you grow up if you ever grow up

          • Frank

            Again, the name is Frank, and as to growing up, I dont think you ever will. You cant discuss “grown up” issues with anyone here. I will always be here watching and waiting for something resembling adult intelligence from you. The wait will be long and I will probably die of old age before it happens.

    • JC

      KG, I won’t even bother…
      Suffice it to say the Kenyan is exactly that…a Kenyan.
      He is not my President and as far as I’m concerned we’ve had an imposter living in our White House for far too long and it is a travesty of justice and American law.
      And I have no idea what a “birther” is.

      • KG

        YEA!!! let’s do what America is really good at – taking freely elected people and governments and undermine or kill them just because they “might” be an enemy. Doesn’t the Bible tell us to do that?

      • http://www.facebook.com/joseph.lundy.3 Joseph Lundy

        JC, you might as well get it in your head that Barack Obama was duly elected by the American majority as President of the United States, rather you like it or not. When Senator McCain was running for president, no one ask him for his birth certificate. Senator McCain was born in Panama

  • Ann

    I certainly hope something costs him the election! He’s ruining our country!

    • Gordon

      Plan for the worst, hope for the best. But you better have a really really good plan already in place.

  • Louis Lemieux

    [His support (Benjamin Franklin) for religion tended to be based on his belief that it was useful and practical in making people behave better, rather than because it was divinely inspired. He wrote a letter, possibly sent in 1786 to Thomas Pain, in response to a manuscript that ridiculed religious devotion. Franklin begged the recipient not to publish his heretical treatise, but he did so on the grounds that the arguments could have harmful effects, not on the grounds that they were false. "You yourself may find it easy to live a virtuous life without the assistance afforded by religion, "he said, "but think how great a proportion of mankind consists of weak and ignorant men and women, and of inexperienced and inconsiderate youth of both sexes, who have need of the motives of religion to restrain them from vice." In addition, he noted, the personal consequences for the author would likely be odious. "He that spits against the wind, spits in his own face."] – from the book BENJAMIN FRANKLIN by Walter Isaacson (2004)

  • Amy

    Wow. Unbelievably ignorant comments, but anyone who believes the crap this site puts out must be pretty ignorant, so I can’t be too surprised.

    The NeoCon movement is so full of lies and misinformation, and it’s only getting worse as they become more desperate in light of the polls moving against then.

    Organized religion ends all critical thought.

    I’d prefer critical thinkers running my country.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      What are the thoughts those critical thinkers thinking since they are not able to solve the problems of this country?

    • Proud to be a Believer

      Since you are so against this site, then why do you bother to visit and/or comment!

    • Maryland Freestater

      Amy, you ignorant slut.

      • Karolyn

        Wow! I’m dazzled by the intelligence of your remark!

      • Flashy

        Karolyn…Betchya he (MF) lives in a red state, takes a bath once a month, passed third grade on his fourth try, and goes by the name Bubba.

        • kim sylvest

          I thought liberals were supposed to be the tolerant ones? I thought liberals were supposed to be the compassionate ones? Instead, most of you liberals sound angry, intolerant, bigoted and red neck like the ones you like to lampoon> You liberals are not tolerant, compassionate, understanding or happy!

      • dan

        I liked it :) but then I have a sense of humor …. remember Dan Akroyd and Jane in SNL
        and resisted the temptation to call Flashy a slut

      • eddie47d

        Conservative Maryland must have bought and paid for that comment from Rush Limbaugh.

      • Cindy

        OMG! it’s Rush Limbaugh in disguise!!! I knew he was spewing hate somewhere and to think he is right here on this site! Oh be still my heart.

      • Cindy

        Maryland Freestater aka Rush Limbaugh!

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Like Castro?

  • Dwight Mann

    There are going to be a lot of sorry souls when God shows up again. . .

    • KG

      Jesus is coming! Everybody look busy!

      • Dave67

        Thought he was already here…. Doesn’t he sing “Cat Scratch Fever”

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Dave67,” THAT WAS “COOL!”

      • KG

        LMFAO!!!!!

      • dan

        The ‘Nuge’ just looks like Jesus

    • Gordon

      There is already a lot of “sorry” human beings.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Gordon,” YOU ARE BITTER.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joseph.lundy.3 Joseph Lundy

    So what is your alternative? Support a Mormon candidate for President who believe God was once a man who was elevated to the position of God?. The Mormon God had many wives and He married one of them to produce Jesus who was the brother of Jesus. Mr. Livingston, is that whom you are asking us to support?

    • Proud to be a Believer

      Before you spout off on Mormon’s you should really learn the facts and not go on here say, please. What about the Muslims who are now allowed four wives and each wife is responsible to bear 10 children???? What about that my friend! And what also that the Muslims are marrying 12 year old children!!!!

      • JC

        Both are wrong.
        At least in our present western society.

      • dan

        …and diminhi slaves

  • http://www.facebook.com/joseph.lundy.3 Joseph Lundy

    Correction: The Mormons believe Jesus was the brother of Lucifer who we now know as Satan. Are you asking us to support a candidate whose God is different from the God of the Bible?

    • Gordon

      Either major candidate fits into that category.

      • Gordon

        The only question this election will answer is “will the next 5 Supreme Court Justices be Constitutionalists or socialists”.
        Dec 2012 is the end of life as we have known it. Socio-economic collapse is inevitable.

  • dan

    I got along with Quakers and honest Cristians very well when I was agnostic…
    but did not quicken in the Spirit until much later in life.
    Languages , prophesy ,dreams and visions….and it’s a miracle that I’m here
    to see His imminent return just as He promised

    • Gordon

      Think you’ll live that long, huh?

      • dan

        maybe not at the rate I’m going….just wish he’d hurry a bit
        but all in His perfect time
        I love it when a plan comes together !

  • http://hotmail Chris Phillips

    The image of God has been perverted by the Republican Party. Indeed, George Bush claimed God had given him the okay to invade Iraq. Pat Robertson a power-mad TV evangelist, was at the Republican Convention. Robertson is a dangerous, war-loving and corrupt man. And though I go to church every Sunday, I still revere the American practice of separation of church & state. I for one don’t want to hear any hypocritical cant about God from amoral politicians — whether Democrat or Republican.

    • Doug

      Hey Chris how about educating yourself about the statement separation of church and state! It is not mentioned in the Constittution of US maybe you are thinking about the old Soviet Union. Here is a great website for you and others to use before you state something that is in-fact a lie, kinda like every word that comes out of the Lier In Chief Obamalangadingdong. It appears to me that libeals, progressives, communist and marxist must be just like the Democrat party scared to tell the dealth cult the Muslims to go pound sand in their sand box, like they are scared of Obamalangadindong Chicago Thugs and Soros’s dong lickers! Anyway kind off track try this website so you can read the founding docments from the past! http://www.earlyamerica.com/

  • James Maxwell, USAF Ret

    The DNC and its leaders have long gone past religious beliefs and values. When they
    put up a Socialist – Muslim you have give up your soul to the dark side of life. They have
    turned their backs upon the unborn children and the religious values of our forefathers.
    Anyone who could stand to listen to their convention and heard the voice vote to include the planks for GOD and Jerusalem could clearly hear the booing and negative vote. The speaker tried three time before he was told to say it passed. This was on liberal radio
    and TV stations so there was not spin from FOX or conservative news sources. Pray
    for your democrat friends for they know now what they have done and the cost of their
    choice.

    • mark

      Yes, you’re right, James, those despicable God-haters at Charlotte are just like that pack of traitors in Philadelphia in 1787 who refused to use the word God even once in our Constitution. A curse on all of them but don’t worry the American Taliban (the Religious Right) will rise up in their righteous fury, make a lot of angry speeches and accusations and then lose to Obama in a close election (partly because lots of them don’t like Mormons)

      • Cindy

        Hands clapping loudly!!!! LMAO

      • JC

        That’s right marky…you just keep trying. Maybe someone will buy into your twisted communist crap some day. But I doubt you’ll be able to sell your comparison of the Founders to you commies anytime soon… well, maybe at the DNC.

      • dan

        It’s not written in the Bible or the Torah ,either….out of reverence
        but those who study can know it and Him
        just Google the question

  • Lee

    It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations.” – Patrick Henry

    “That religion, or the duty we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience.” – Patrick Henry (Virginia Bill of Rights, June 12, 1776.)

    There is a saying there are no atheist in Hell.
    Some of you should read the Harbinger a New Book Out by Jonathan Cahn
    The Ancient Mystery that holds the Secret to Americas Future.
    And for the Atheist that don’t believe how can a book Thousands of years old
    predict the tragic event of 9-11. About what the politicians read not even knowing what they read after the event not once but twice. A Nation that does not need God or thinks
    they don’t need God is a Nation that will wake up like the Nation of Gomorrah!
    Look around you can see it peoples faces. I believe people in the U.S. stepped away from
    God, And we will suffer the wraith because of this. So to me I will except Jesus in my Life
    apologize for my sin’s put my faith and belief’s in him. Not to hard to do. Thanks Mr. Wood for bringing this to our attention! Another great article by you guy’s.

    • http://www.facebook.com/joseph.lundy.3 Joseph Lundy

      If this nation was found on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then why was African-American held as slaves and thought of as part animals and part humans?

      • Doug

        You are and idiot America did not invent slavery or for that matter the color of the skin of the slave. But America stood up to the injustice and corrected it. But you should know it was the Democrats who were the ones behind keeping slavery in place in America. And i am sure by your ignorant post that you did not know well before the civil ware back in the early 1800′s and I believe the late 1700′s many black were land owners and were voting like every true citizen of America. So like posted earlier you might want to some research on this website,http://www.earlyamerica.com/

    • eddie47d

      Good comments and quotes Lee. Patrick Henry did say that “it can be directed by reason and conviction not by force or violence.” Why do so many Christian Conservatives advocated for war to solve the world’s problems and they also use God as a footstool in doing so? What do you say to the folks here who want to turn the Middle East into a sheet of glass through nuclear weapons. “Kill ‘em all and let God sort them out”. If you don’t support those views you become a coward and a traitor and they use God to tell you so. This is why I get tired of this Muslim/Christian debate when I see little difference in some attitudes.

  • Jake Dunn

    Please please please do what you can to keep hot button emotional issues out of politics. Abortion and gay marriage are two issues that don’t need to even be in the discussion of who is President. I am a registered Independent who usually votes Republican because I am a Fiscal Very Conservative. However, when these other issues are debated, I veer from Party Lines. I think what Republicans have always stood for is Individual Rights. Why then do they want to tell people how to live their personal lives. I may not believe in abortion or gay marriage but allow people to make their own choices when they do not infringe on my rights. By introducing these subjects to the conversation it muddies the water. Folks in the middle begin to make the wrong choices. The Republicans can win this Fall if they stick to the primary issues: Number one being to create and sustain a sound fiscal policy!
    Otherwise good article. I do fear the Democrats will win and we are headed toward a Communist Regime.

    • mark

      You are right: Obama will win a close election probably 50% popular vote for Obama; 48% for Romney and 2% for Johnson (The Libertarian candidate). Electorally, Obama will get around 284-295 electoral votes vs. 254-243 for Romney. Once again the Republicans put up a poor candidate. Ordinarily, the Republicans should win with such a weak economy but they won’t with Romney.

      And we won’t have a communist regime either, Jake, (nothing at all like Cuba or North Korea where all private property is prohibited and the state owns virtually 100% of the economy: currently in the U.S. around 80% of our economy is in the private sector). We will instead have a liberal president blocked from doing much in his second term by a Republican House and a tiny Democratic control of the Senate, probably 51-49 or even 50-50 with VP Biden as the tie-breaker. The economy will continue to muddle along. The CBO and Fed are predicting 6% unemployment in 2014 which is better than today but still only a modest improvement and nothing spectacular – unless you look at Europe and the rest of the world!

      • http://yahoo wendell

        You forgot to mention the all important fact that Obama has run up the national debt from 10T to 16T. That is more important that all the other things combined. If Obama is relected and has control of the Senate he will increase that debt even more for his social programs. Inflation will shoot thru the roof and the future for our children and grandchildren will be one of darkness and despair. The USA will never recover from another 4 years of obama. That is why we can’t elect this man again!

      • Doug

        Sorry the election will not be close even though America has been dumb down by progressives in our education system. There are many Americans who did not vote last election and those who were so stupid as to vote for a person who has no back ground or records will vote to make sure this incompetent fool is remove from the WH in a land slide.

    • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

      “Jake Dunn,”

      THE KENYAN MADE “gay marriage” A POLITICAL ISSUE BY PUBLICALLY ENDORSING IT.

    • brett

      then why vote for a party that, with the exception of 41 bush, runs up the debt, not that dems don’t suck either, they just aren’t as bad ( i don’t want to hear about obama, his was definitely inherited ). we need to raise taxes, especially on the top!

  • Liberty Lover

    Agree completely that those awkward moments should be seen repeatedly during the remainder of the election campaign. Much should also be made of Obama’s support for every level of abortion, up to and including infanticide.

  • Vic

    Chip, you forgot another boo boo. They showed Russian ships when an admiral gave a salute to the military. The DNC did apologize, after it was, already, pointed out.

  • Dave67

    Why does Tricky Mitt Romney hate the US Military?

    He did not mention them once in his speech…

    See I can play “stupid” too…

    This whole issue of “god” in the platform was put forth by the media wing of the GOP… Fox who just the previous week said they wanted to focus on the economy and not social issues…

    What a difference a week makes huh?

    Can we find a real issue here? Thanks!

  • Steve

    It didn’t seem as much about god as it seemed to point out how the party felt about honest elections, even within it’s own ranks. Ask for a vote, don’t like the results, get a recount, don’t like the recount get another, don’t like that result just declare the results to have been what you wanted…

    • Gordon

      Gore

  • Jim

    How can anyone even remotely claiming to be Christian support the Socialist Party of Amerca? Reelect Obozo and see the evil unfold upon us all. The deed was intentionally done by them. Any questions, just look at their voting records.

  • http://n/a AmFer

    The overhead picture in this article of the DNC reminds me of a childhood rhyme: “Here’s the church, here’s the steeple, open doors and here’s the people”…….ooops, where’s the people??? Seems like they ran out when those who stayed were denying God!!

  • mrrzk

    I am not defending the DNC, but according to an article, it stated that 20K Muslims were bussed in to attend the DNC. They dont believe in God, they believe in Allah.
    It is sad that many people still believe in Obama. I think he is a great danger to our Nation and would have no problem turning on Americans, especially if we are Christians. I love my God and I change for NO ONE.
    GOD BLESS YOU AND OUR GREAT COUNTRY

    • brett

      god= allah= yahweh= jehovah. if you wish to criticize a religion, learn a little about it first.

      • Retired Army Officer

        For real………

      • Gordon

        Excuse me. The #1 premise of Christianity is that Jesus Christ IS GOD. Your statement is an oxymoron. Other than Christianity are deists.

      • Gordon

        It is NOT semantics.

      • dan

        not even close,dude….work on your Hebrew

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Allah is Arabic for God. Muslims believe in God but to the extent the Mormons do, have a belief in Christ. Zionist do not believe in Christ at all. Israeli’s and Jews have had 25 would be saviors since Christ. They are looking for a savior in the physical sense, not from the spiritual sense. They feel the gate to heaven is always open them, regardless of what they do.

      • Gordon

        Want a real eye opener? Ask a Christian- converted from Jew why Jews won’t listen to someone trying to convert them to modern day christianity (small c). Trinity, Sabbath Day, etc…. The modern interpretation of Jesus and its “religion” could not possibly be the messiah of the Old Testament.

        The #1 premise of Christianity is that Jesus Christ IS GOD. Other than Christianity are deists.

      • Gordon

        Of course, many TV preachers are a good example of the word “duh”. Grandpa always said, “Nobody is totally worthless, they can always serve as a bad example.”

    • Cindy

      mrrzk, I guess God, wanted us to have Obama as President, so what’s your point?
      Since you believe that God controls everything, he must want us to have this President.
      He wouldn’t have let him become President if he didn’t want it that way. Some one had to fix the problems that the repubs got us into. I guess God, took a look and said, no, to McCain and his bomb, bomb, bomb Iran, wasn’t too funny since we were still in two wars at that time. God, does know best and we didn’t get another war monger as President. Be thankful that your Lord knew best.

    • Karolyn

      BwaaaaaHaaaaHaaaa! 20k Muslims bussed in!!! You have got to be kiddin’ me! There was a Muslim prayer meeting the Friday before the convention, and there were about 200 pople in attendance. WHERE ON EARTH ARE YOU PEOPLE GETTING YOUR INFO?

  • EUGENE OSTASIEWICZ

    IN GOD WE TRUST.

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    One thing about God, he isn’t where He’s not wanted and America booted HIm out a long time ago. If anything, the democrats were being honest. We should take off the legend on our dollar instead of being the hypocrits we are or get down our knees and repent to Him for being the sinners that we are. Here we are, thinking we’re doing the will of God and looking for a Muslim or Morman to lead us. I say, that not in deference to them, they may be faithful to their believes, but the “christian” America turning it’s back on Him. Pride is the sin of Satan. That’s what he catered to Adam and Eve with, their pride over God’s will.America isn’t suffering from a “we” problem but a “I” problem. It seems we can look for somebody that in our minds is worse than us to justify our actions. God will deal with us INDIVIDUALLY. He won’t be asking how others did but how “YOU” did. That article reeks with pride. Don’t get me wrong. I’m probably a worse sinner than most but I can write from a meek position, not weak. Read and believe John 3:16.

    • Gordon

      He also says that the measure of judgement you use on others will be used on you.

      • Gordon

        HE also said…… judge righteous judgement. Standing against a wrong principle and those who exercise that principle IS righteous judgement.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      The Christian American: It’s because of guys like you that I support a constitutional amendment that would require passing an IQ test to vote. If you really can’t see the difference between Obama and Romney you are either an idiot or you are wasting your god-given brain.

      • DaveH

        Explain the differences to us, MikeR.

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          DaveH: You have already proven yourself to be one of those who would flunk the test.

      • DaveH

        What I expect from somebody who doesn’t know what they’re talking about, Mike.
        You must be king of the hill in debates with 13-year-olds.

  • Steven Smith

    It don’t matter, president Obama is going to win!! LOL Look at the polls. Mitts is going down quicker than a hooker on a tv evangelist!!! LOL

    • Palin16

      OK dude, I am looking at the polls which Rassmussen (today, Friday) has Romney +3.
      At this point in 1984, Mondale led in the polls against Reagan. How’d that turn out? Mondale won only ONE state…his own. Reagan carried 49 states including California and New York.

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        Polls can be scary. If Romney jumps ahead many people that would vote for him might not vote. When their 50/50, more people will vote. The weather can be a factor to. Election day being on a tuesday was to give the people in DC time to get home and vote.

      • Gordon

        INfamous saying “Figures lie and liars figure”.

    • Cindy

      Must be God’s will!!!!!!! LMAO

      • Gordon

        Might be. The country turns its back on GOD, and GOD allows the excrement to strike the rotating airfoil……… but the feculence is not equally distributed among all recipients.

  • Palin16

    I made it a point not to watch the DNC, however, I did catch Bawney Fwank’s speech on Youtube just for a good laugh. The toothless Bawney did not disappoint. Naturally, he did not mention anything about the Dodd-Frank bill that led to the housing crisis. Instead his speech centered around his new marriage to his husband and how that was supposed to be a threat to straight Republicans.

    • Cindy

      Palin16, just so you don’t look stupid. The Dodd-Frank bill was passed after the housing crisis. It was brought on by the repeal of the Glas-Stegal Act in 1999. Yup, you guessed it the repubs were in control of both houses of Congress when it was repealed. They didn’t want regulations and this is what we got! How’s that working for you? It is funny that the repubs don’t bother to see who even passed a law or who was in control before they start blaming the liberals. Must be watching Faux news. lol

      • Doug

        You might want to go check your facts there Cindy! Also who was the president in the WH who signed the repeal of Glas-Stegal Act in 1999 yep you guess slick Willie maybe we just don’t agree on what the word is is or is is????? Kind of funny Slick Willie Lezbo Hillary thought they had the gang behind them as they killed off people that would be able to tell the dirt on them. But then came along Obamalangadindong with Soro’s and the Chicago Communist union behind him and he told LizboHillary to drop out of the race or their lovely little girl would not be having any grand kids. When you lay with evil, evil will find you.

      • Gordon

        #1 principle. The Democrats groom their presidential candidates and etc. for 20+ years before their election. Fully backed, thoroughly trained, groomed, and records expunged or concealed.

        As retired Senator Fred Thompson, TN, said in that movie, “Commies don’t take a dump without a plan, son”.

        The Republicans are lost as a goose in a hail storm, waiting until the last minute, as usual.

      • Palin16

        Bawney Fwank was directly responsable for low income people who could not afford a home mortgage to get one. In other words, anyone with a pulse could now obtain a home loan, otherwise the bank would be labeled racist. I read about a girl who worked at McDonald’s secured a half-million dollar home.

  • ladybug

    If you voted for Obama because he is black, you are a racist. If you didn’t vote for Obama because he is black, you are a racist. I did not vote for Obama because his campaign was all talk and no substance. He did not say what “Change” was and now we know and I’m glad I didn’t vote for him. independent voter

  • Thinking About

    Being liberal or Democrat does not make one not believe in God, Jesus no more than being conserative or Republican does not make one a christian. This is one more silly argument fueled by untruths just because one hears what they want rather than the real truth. Just look how long this went on with birthers and those who still say Obama is a muslim and morman is a cult. The Constitution allows for freedom of religion and speech and to hear this buzz going on means there are too many who does not follow the Constitution.

    • Gordon

      Obama said that he is a muslim. And his actions speak louder than words. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then it ain’t no puppy dog. Look it up and watch the videos of 25 different interviews. AND bowing to an ARAB leader…….. WTH?

      • Karolyn

        He never said he was a Muslim!!!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        O’s ventriloquist made the wooden dummy do the talking.

      • Thinking About

        He also said he was christian, believed in Jesus Christ as his Savior, in my house this does not make one a muslim, if it does in your house then continue to enjoy your status as a muslim.

    • Gordon

      Depends on your definition of cult.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Gordon,” ALL RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS ARE CULTS.

  • http://www.personalliberty.com Melvin2344

    The DNC voted AGAINST “GOD” THREE TIMES : Once for God The Father ; once for God The Son ; and Once for God the Holy Spirit ! As “reverand Jerimia Wright said :

  • Peter 10-nov-1775

    I was brought up having been taught this was a judeo-christian country, where people were free to practice (or not) any religion they chose. To have the halfrican try to make the country muslim, by going out of his way to have a muslim prayer at the convention, saying (I believe it was 2007 or 2008) that if he had to pick sides he would pick the muslims is puzzling. What is the end game?? From what I understand some states allow sharia law to judge muslims. Have you ever heard the defense to a crime “it is legal in my country under my religion”?

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Yes people have the right to practice whatever they chose but they DO NOT have the right to rip our Judeo-Christian heritage out from under us.

      • Gordon

        They will only accomplish that IF WE LET THEM.

    • Karolyn

      There was bo muslim prayer at the convention. Get your facts straight! This is how false rumors are spread. Too many people are hearing bits and pieces of junk bing spewed by rabble rousers and spread it as if gospel. And who cares even if they did say Muslim prayers?

    • Karolyn

      That’s “no”, not “bo”.

  • Louis Lemieux

    The myths surrounding God are numerous and widely held. It’s a shame, because pursuing myths will lead you astray, waste your time and, taken to extremes, ruin your life.

    • FreedomFighter

      I am sure when you walk past your ant farm, the ants consider you a myth and none really believe you exist.

      poor ant.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Louis Lemieux

        A little bit of science is all one needs to know that ants act with nothing else but instinct.

      • Gordon

        Louis, your statements get more absurd the more you write. Facts are that they LEARN.

      • Louis Lemieux

        If ants do really learn anything, why do day keep doing the same thing over and over again? Oh, I see, some people believe they have attained perfection!

      • Louis Lemieux

        error, I meant they, not day

    • Gordon

      You are talking about yourself.

  • Louis Lemieux

    Religion is to a large measure humanity’s subconscious. Our individual subconscious is a very important part of each and evryone of us as it underlies our consciousness. The more we become conscious and understand why we are not free, the more we can become free. Too many people still function with the primitive parts of their brain, so they act like animals because all they know are the basic survival skills and greed. When humans use their minds to their full potential, we realize that they can come up with better and more peaceful ways of solving our problems and disputes.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Louis: That’s not very likely to happen while one large segment of the earth’s population is listening to rap on the radio, and another large segment is listening to the hateful rants of an imam.

      • DaveH

        And another large segment is listening to the hateful rants of the NeoCons who can somehow rationalize that they’re the good guys when they strike the first blows and constantly meddle in other countries’ affairs.

  • FreedomFighter

    When I look up into the stars at night and contemplate the vastness of space and time, the belief a being of unimaginalbe power, age, immortal, that can see thru the veils of space/time and is our creator… does not seem all that far out.

    According to some top math scientists the probability of Gods existence is very high.

    The Bible predicts his return, he is coming and its predictions are coming true, without err.

    13000 years of history says beings calling themselves gods walked the earth then the one whom claimed to be creator came on scene of history and the rest fled from history.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • Gordon

      Was it Herrod that said something like……. if he is not from God all this will die out. If he is from God, who am I to oppose him….. and so how many years has this misconception created by a charlatan grown larger?

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      FF: Jesus refused to defend himself, got his ass kicked, and then he was murdered. I don’t see much of an example to follow. Lara Logan put up more of a fight in Egypt.

      • DaveH

        It’s called “having Principles”, Mike. You should try that sometime.

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          DaveH: There is no ‘principle’ in getting your ass kicked. It’s a bull@#$% story, and you obviously fell for it.

      • DaveH

        I wouldn’t expect a person like yourself to understand.

  • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.754 Benjamin Fox

    Won’t matter they showed they hated God and will bring judgement on this nation.

    • Gordon

      AMEN

      • deerinwater

        So much for your Life insurance policy, ~

        Determined to go to heaven and refusing to die.

        People that worry about dying, die by the minute while their glass can never be filled. Their life over and they missed it.

        I helped a Ray to his car tonight. “Walker” and all. ~ It’s got brakes on it. Old folks have a lot of cleaver devises to help them get about anymore. Tiny 6″ steps to the car. ~ The northers are beginning to roll in and this hurts old bones. If they fall, it’s hard to get them up, you can’t just reach down and pick them up without breaking or bruising them, break a rib or put their arm off. Ray is small thank God

        Another 10, 15 years max. and I’ll be ready to show the devil a brand new dance. It’s my plan to die and screw the government over good!

  • Retired Army Officer

    Wow……there are a lot of people here today who are REALLY hard-up for some positive spin. But all the denial in the world won’t change some very basic facts:

    Basic Fact 1. Romney will lose the election…..plain as that. He’s way off message and every time he opens his month he seems to plant his foot firmly and entirely into it.

    Basic Fact 2. Romney is fast losing support in every swing state (I believe there are currently eight).

    Basici Fact 3. Romney’s been losing that support…..SINCE the DNC…..their opposition to God in their platform not-withstanding.

    Basic Fact 4. Bitch, moan and complain all you want about what happened at the DNC but that WILL NOT change a thing! Convince people who are still on the fence as to who to vote for…..and change the minds of people planning to vote for Obama……or accept what is inevitable if you don’t!

    • Gordon

      Who is that who said…… “Keep some powder dry”?

      • deerinwater

        Somebody in the rain?

  • God of earth,air,fire and water

    Once again Chip off the kold BullS*** pile boars Americans with his anti everything writing.. I suppose you enjoy the Grand Ole Poops convention watching the lead Jerkoff names Mittens Romney spend half the NIGHT YELLING AT A CHAIR.. Chip RETIRE from Journalism your garbage Rhetoric is nothing more then a tired old FART that needs his chair and blanket and cup of COCO YO HO HO. Brick wall waterfall CHIP you know nothing at all.

    • Gordon

      Nobody’s totally worthless they can always serve as a bad example….= liberal atheists

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      God of: ….earth,air,fire,and water? You sound more like the God Of That Brown Stuff Stuck To My Toilet Brush.

      • http://alsina846.wordpress.com Marlina

        MikeR you are a fool, must you let your true inteligence show, listen FOOL, when you died it is not over there is a place for people like you and it is called HELL. check out on utube on people who had actually went there just to come back and let others know that hell is real. God show certain people hell so they warn us about hell and they all said the same thing. Hell is real and it is hot, you can’t breath, demons tormenting, picthblack, people screeming and the stench of rotten eggs but a thousand times more powerful. Don’t worry honey just keep believing on what you feel, its waiting for you sooner or later you will know the truth.

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          Marlina: What you have just described is the inside of my truck when the air conditioner is broken and after I have had two bean burritos

  • s c

    I’d look at it in a little different fashion, folks. I’m not concerned whether or not Obummer believes in God. What matters is whether or not God believes in Obummer. Politicians, it must be said, have N O sway when it comes to God. No matter how good a liar or a criminal a politican can be, NO ONE fools God. And, it seems safe to say, God has no use for political parties or whether or not a party is on the “right” side of history.
    And, we do not deserve a pretender in the White House. So, how do you think God would look at someone who winks at abortions? It must be quite a challenge pretending to be on the “right” side of history when part of a politician’s agenda includes legalized murder (to “protect” a woman’s so-called reproductive rights, or whatever the excuse of the day is).
    Food for thought. Praise God. Politicians just don’t rate praise. Period.

  • DaveH

    This is just what the PTBs want — People arguing about religion, instead of focusing on issues of Freedom. Divide and Conquer. Don’t fall for it.

  • http://n/a AmFer

    There was only ONE dynamic speaker at the DNC, Cardinal Dolan and I don’t think the Pope would allow him to run as a liberal democrat. The rest of the speakers were a ‘yawn’ and more than a few ‘illiterate’. With the exception, of course, the ranting moron Jennifer Granholm. So, in your opinion, who were the speakers you are referring to?

    • Karolyn

      Michelle Obama and Clinton were spot-on!

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        Karolyn: Yes, Bill Clinton and Michelle Obama are great speakers. So are Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez.

      • Palin16

        Was Michelle O’Bummer proud to be an American yet?

      • DaveH

        They’re telling you what you want to hear, Karolyn. If you parse their words you will see that everything they encourage entails taking other peoples’ money to spend as they please, or other peoples’ Freedom.
        Remove yourself from the Society of Criminals, Karolyn. Then you will truly be at peace with yourself. The fact that you spend so much time talking about your “positivity” tells me that you aren’t.

  • Joe Hammond

    Let’s see…..Obama is about 7 points ahead of Rummey/Lyin’ Ryan in the Gallup Dailey Poll….and about 6 points in the Fox poll…..5 points in Florida and Virginia and 7 in Ohio….5 points in Colorado…….Face it boys and girls, Rummey/ Lyin’ Ryan are kaput! I bet you all hope Lyin’ Ryan is running for his congressional seat or he might be unemployed and part of that 8.1%……Rummy will simple go to the Caymans and cry on the beach…….or maybe back to Paris to convert those heathen French…..or buy a load of Depends…….Rummy=loser……….

  • Karolyn

    Latst news -Romney tanking in battleground states. – Ohio, VA & FL.

  • Viet Nam Vet 67-68

    If the thirty Million Christains that didn’t vote in the last election don’t get out and vote you and my religion will be gone with this Illegal Sunni Muslim Cultist Godless Abomination will have only Mosques in this Country and you will have a rug. Wake up this Election is about everything America, our freedom , our freedom to worship as we please, our Constitution, our Bill of Rights and our Declaration of Independance. Abomination has shown his hatred for our Capitilism our Laws and our 1st, 5th and 2nd Amendment rights, of which he has already destroyed. He has burried us in Massive Debt $6 Trillion in only 3 3/4 years, gasoline is more than double and rising, welfare up 48%, Food Stamps up 98% and now Bernanke is starting another Quantum Stupidity 3 to burryus in more debt and printing more funny money devaluing our dollar even more. Vote them all out and start over!!! Viet Nam Vet 67-68
    P.S. You DemoRAT voters please put new people in that can read the bills before passing them!!!!!!!!!!

    • Karolyn

      If your faith and love of God is so strong, why are you so afraid? Nobody is taking anything away from Christians. Faith is the absence of fear. G o d is a word, and eve if it is taken out of everything, it canot be taken out of peoples’ hearts. The fear mongers and rabble rousers have done a terrific job with lies and innuendo to get to people. The irrational fear of Muslims is just that. They are not all extremists and fundamentalists. Terry Jones is in his element right now. I haven’t seem any Muslims making movies denigrating Christianity, but it is a Christian who created the movie that started all the crap going on now, and people on both sides are playing right into it. I’m sure you haven’t seem the interviews with the ambassador’s neighbors, who are totally upset and disheartened. No, the only news we read and hear is bad news. Bad news sells!

      • MarathonMan

        You are correct muslims do not make films denigrating Christianity.
        They just behead Christians ! Islam has no tolerance for non believers/ infidels.

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        Karolyn: You really need to read more. Start with the Koran. Then I recommend THE TRUTH ABOUT MUHAMMAD and THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT GUIDE TO ISLAM AND THE CRUSADES, both by Robert Spencer.

      • DaveH

        Muslims have their fanatics, just as Christians have their fanatics, Mike. I think you are one of them.

      • Thinking About

        DaveH, good post, it is radicals in both worlds, radical christians have also killed and performed vile acts as have radical Muslims. Radical christians also rant and rave calling Obama a muslim. What would Jesus do, not the acts of the radical christians. What a shame when christians hate in the fashion they do. Freedom, never in their world, and they will never be free.

      • DaveH

        Obviously most of you folks have drunk the Kool-Aid. Can you say Hegemony?
        Read this article to get started on having a clue:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/09/14/can-america-survive-mideast-war/

    • Deerinwater

      Viet Nam Vet 67-68 says , “Wake up this Election is about everything America, our freedom , our freedom to worship as we please, our Constitution, our Bill of Rights and our Declaration of Independence.”

      Correct ! what this election is not about is~ “OBAMA” ~ are hard a you attempt to make it so.

      It was “W” that abridged your personal liberties . It was Obama that elected not to change what “W”‘s administration has done, finding more then enough “clean-up” to do without opening yet another big can of worms while an Islamic threat still exist.

      This attempt to make everything about “Obama ” quite frankly ~ is not working but only inside your little circle of malcontents that take exception and offense to anything that does not carry a USDA grade of approval from far right wing Christian zealots, aka Tea Party.

      While I’m not parcel to women’s rights violators or goat abusers, neither do I encourage Christian zealots in their efforts to cram unsolicited Christianity down everybody’s throats.

      I’m refuse to revert to the stone ages just because “some” Christians think it’s serving a greater purpose to be over whelmed with “Godliness”

      It’s never worked before and it won’t work now.

      What is wrong with minding you own business?

  • uvuvuv

    i come to this discussion late and so no one will see this. as if it matters, eh? i tried to be a church goer, i really tried, but this idea of “our worship services begin at 10 am” kind of runs against my grain. worship does not begin and end at certain times. i am not saying that, despite my disinterest in church i am privately practicing any faith. i am not friends with the godhead in any particular way, but i am in their corner when it comes to moral beliefs. maybe it’s just me but when a 5th grade teacher says, this is a banana, it just doesn’t set well. if a 13 year old is driven by the guidance counselor to the clinic for her 3rd abortion, this might be a misspent childhood, but how can i be a judge of that. if the gays enforce same sex studies in the schools, starting with day 1, day 1, maybe i’ve been living in a tunnel and this is what must be done. if a teacher can be fired for accidently saying merry christmas, or if a girl can be suspended for having a bible in her locker, well above all we must separate church and state. anyway, we can’t risk offending any muslims in our public schools, they might start setting off their bombs here! just kidding. but meanwhile it’s open season on the evangelicals. speaking of christmas why don’t the anti-christians go in to work that day? why do they get sunday off? and what about thanksgiving? thankful to whom? a great black empty void that through pure pinball chance happens to confer upon them a prosperous and fulfilling life? if they can’t be thankful to any deity they should report to work that thursday morning. or refuse the pay. they teach kids evolution so they have the reassurance that they were once monkeys in some jungle. well if it’s survival of the fittest, why do parent monkeys let their baby monkeys live? isn’t right supposed to make right? oh wait, the dems have the answer to that one. welcome to our clinic, miss roe. we’ll take care of that little scum for you, done deal.

  • brett

    to richard and bob livingston: i suppose your silence is your acquiesce? jefferson was among many founding fathers, who although christians, were deists!!!!!!!!! patrick henry was one of the few who was not.

  • uvuvuv

    it ain’t don’t matter none what the founders were or weren’t. we have seen that our national faith in God has worked for 200 years and that what we have now, prevailing atheism does not. it’s actually frightening, my head is in the sand, i admit it.

    • deerinwater

      What has worked this short 230 some years ~ is a nation that proclaims “no” national religion. Leaving each citizen to fill in the blank by their own volition .

      That you wish to claim, that you and your God did it ~ Great! fine, ~ yell it from the roof tops .

      The problems start we you start forcing it on other and demand they kneel and kiss your assets.

    • uvuvuv

      i guess i meant personal instead of national. you probably have no memories of the way we were prior to the hippie 60s. that’s the problem, fewer and fewer people even know what it was like then because they weren’t even zygotes yet.

    • uvuvuv

      oops, if that’s a white beard there you precede me. you look like clive cussler.

  • deerinwater

    Not a TV watcher, ~ I picked it up on the net at my leisure. What I seen , I enjoyed,

    my personal favorite ? This woman was on fire! I love fire in a woman!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199811/Democratic-National-Convention-2012-Former-Michigan-Governor-Jennifer-Granholm-gives-rousing-speech-attacking-Mitt-Romney.html

    • FreedomFighter

      Derek Prince Warns America

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_C7ZaiEUYQ

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      deerinwater: That wasn’t fire. What you saw was Saul Alinsky / Cloward-Piven fanatacism.

  • wvhillbilly

    If what I’m seeing all over the Web is accurate, there isn’t going to be another election. There’ll be a contrived bank collapse followed by martial law and Obama will be president for life. If the USA lasts that long.

    As for the DNC I didn’t even watch it. And I’m not at all surprised at the way it went.

    God’s judgment is about to fall on the USA and it’s going to be sooner than you think. See it here: http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/09/explosions-across-america-wall-street-collapse-imminent-2466852.html

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      wvhillbilly: At any other time in our history I would have thought your are nuts. But, unfortunately, this time you may be right. I think it really could happen. I hope we are wrong.

      • zee333

        Don’t forget that after the crash Obama will institute Sharia law. All women and animals will have to wear Burkhas. I am opening a chain of Burkha shops just in case. I will clean up financially then sell the chain to Bain capital!

        • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

          zee333: My dog is gonna be pissed.

  • Palin16

    In head-to-head matchups, Governors almost always beat Senators or House reps for president, even if these congressmen are now the incumbent president. The only time senators win is when they face another senator.
    Jimmy Carter, Gov beat Gerald Ford, Rep.
    Ronald Reagan, Gov beat Walter Mondale, Rep.
    Bill Clinton, Gov beat HW Bush, Rep and Bob Dole, Sen.
    George W Bush, Gov beat Al Gore and John Kerry, both Sen.
    If this trend continues, Romney, Gov should beat Obama, Sen.

    • MarathonMan

      To further amplify your point :
      Historically, Governors typically make better presidents because that have governing experience (i.e. putting budgets together,etc.etc.)

      Senators do not get that kind of experience and typically do not do as well at governing.
      (The current White House occupant is an example)

      An interesting observation in the 2008 election was: There were 3 senators and only one governor with limited experience (2years) on the ballots. But, she had two more years of experience than BOB.

    • DaveH

      Here’s a Governor who vetoed over 750 spending bills and believes in Freedom:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP69507fTKY

  • zee333

    A simple reply: THE FIRST AMENDMENT! Keep your damn religion out of the US government! I could care less about your Gawd or Jerusalem. You like Jarusalem so much, take all your GOP friends and MOVE THERE!

    • swampfox

      what got your demons so stirred up?
      all this talk of Jesus hmmm..
      Jesus,Jesus,Jesus,Jesus,Jesus,praise Jesus,Jesus is LORD!
      Jesus ain’t going away,so deal with it:)

      • zee333

        Like I said…Separation! You can pray to your Jesus, Yaweh, Mohammed, Bhudda all you want in your church wherever it is. That is your right. If we are talking politics, I don’t want to hear about what your Gods want or why YOUR religion should be the ONE. We are a secular nation.

  • Tony

    Heres the video that is causing all the Un rest in the Middle east , Common !!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM

    Here is an Interesting Opinion about the Films Creator that makes this Obama Administration and the Radical Islamists claim that blaming the film for the violence is not maybe the real reason why they all are conspiring to say it’s all about the film as much as its about who the films creator is … http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120913211523AA6BhqE
    And considering the way we saw the DNC Convention totally Reject God and Israel this all makes total sense and we could almost say that this violence and Murder of the Ambassador is in reaction to the DNC going over the heads of the Opposing of God and Israel as the DNC platform and reinstating it back into their platform , could this be the reason why we are seeing this uprising in the area , its only been a week and a half ago so plenty of time for the retaliation to be organized and it be done on the anniversary of 911 to make a broader statement ???

  • tony

    Was the Ambassador and the envoy sacrificed to send a message to the DNC after they Re-instated God and Israel back into the Convention Platform during the week of the DNC Convention ?? And are the Democratic party and followers trying to use the ANTI-Muhammad video as a Deterrent from this reason that shows the Democrat’s have a cancer inside their Party and that is radical Islam ?? This shows the out of control nature of the policies of appeasement that is threatening the USA and the world today !!!!

  • DaveH

    The Republican Despots are afraid of “None of the Above” choice in Nevada:
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/18/colbert-nevada-republicans-afraid-of-none-of-the-above/

    • DaveH

      They also don’t want voters to have a choice in Pennsylvania, and some other states:
      http://www.politicspa.com/libertarian-gary-johnson-wins-first-ballot-fight-gop-to-appeal/41141/

      It’s time to quit letting the Establishment Republicans tell you how to vote.

    • DaveH

      The Republicans aren’t the only ones afraid that Gary Johnson will upset their candidate:
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steph-sherer/could-propot-candidate-gary-johnson_b_1853219.html

      There is absolutely no reason for people to waste their votes on Romney solely because they think Gary Johnson would assure an Obama victory. There’s a very high likelihood that he will draw more disaffected Democrat votes than disaffected Republican votes.
      Quit letting the major parties Steal your votes with the “lesser of two evils” scam.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        I AM VOTING FOR Gary Johnson.

      • brett

        the neocons attempted to block johnson’s ballot in pa. i do not understand why libertarians follow along with the new gop, they only pander to you while they ridicule you behind your backs. actually, giving the convention, they do it to your face now that i think about it.

      • Bert Cundle Sr.

        CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON says:
        September 15, 2012 at 10:22 am
        I AM VOTING FOR Gary Johnson.
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        What I know about Politics, We can vote for any ones Johnson, for the same results!

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “brett,”

        I AM STILL WAITING TO HEAR FROM, “RevNowWhileWeCan.” IF HE TELLS ME Gary Johnson IS NOT ON TENNESSEE’S BALLOT, I DO NOT KNOW WHAT I WILL DO. I DO NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR Governor Mitt Romney. MAYBE, I WILL VOTE THE REPUBLICAN TICKET ON EVERYTHING ELSE AND LEAVE “PRESIDENT” BLANK.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Bert Cundle Sr.,” I HEAR YA.

      • DaveH

        According to this article (by process of elimination), Christopher, he is on the Tennessee ballot:
        http://www.slate.com/blogs/trending/2012/09/13/libertarian_party_nominee_gary_johnson_now_on_ballot_in_47_states_.html

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “DaveH,”

        SIR, THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION. I LOOKED AT YOUR LINK. WELL THEN, IT IS A “DONE DEAL” – Gary Johnson HAS MY VOTE.

      • DaveH

        Yay!

  • Pingback: Zionist Adelson With Chinese Profits Buys the Presidency – Geneva Convention’s Humanitarian Articles – QE3 Shocking Quotes « CUTDC.COM

  • TerriG

    Since when iis keeping the US Constitution the way that it’s written denying G-d? The US Constitution makes it very clear the Government is not to be involved in religion.why do you think that your personal beliefs should be the exception?

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      TerreG The writers of the Constitution recognized the different stages of morality.

      Moral: God’s rules of action and interaction

      Immoral: Knowing the rules and breaching them. A person can repent to God and God is quick to forgive and let a person get on with his life.

      Amoral: Functioning outside God’s rules of action

      Today for the most part we are amoral. That opens up whole different prospectus on the Constitution. Freedom is merely another word for status, like serfdom. Democracy isn’t the majority of people. It’s who has the majority of the power. There is a moral and amoral side to democracy, as there is freedom. The Founders thought morally and wrote the Constitution that way. John Adams said: This Constitution is for the governance of a moral and religious people. It is UNFIT for the governance of any other. We’re certainly proving that aren’t we?

      • You Love Yourself Way Too Much

        Even an Atheist can act moral. So can an Agnostic. Morality comes from within, not from outside influences.

      • JON

        I CLICKED ON YOUR NAME, WHICH TOOK ME TO YOUR ONLINE GUN STORE.
        GEE, KILL ANYONE LATELY?

      • KG

        I was contemplating about being a “pre-rapture” survivalist, and after some thought, the “stupidity” of such a thing. OK, if I start shooting people who want my food, eventually, I would run out of bullets BEFORE i ran out of humans. And after killing a bunch of their friends, what do you think they would do to me? I would be a “wet dream” for Dr. Mengeleh!!!!

        I don’t think Christ ever intended for His believers to “hole-up.” If your faith is in Christ, why all of the reliance on firearms?

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “You Love Yourself Way Too Much,”

        GREAT COMMENTS. PEOPLE SEEM TO THINK ATHEISTS LACK DECENCY.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “KG,”

        RELIANCE ON FIREARMS IS ABOUT CRIME. SOMETIMES, “Jesus” MOVES TOO SLOW. NEGROES SAY, ” ‘He’ may not come when you want ‘Him,’ but ‘He’ is right on time.” BULLETS ARE “PRETTY” FAST.

      • tony

        KG god gives us the wisdom to know that we need weapons to defend ourselves from the non believers who desires to dominate others stuff is their only reason of sustainability instead of how we expand supply . World history tells us that societies before us who have had conflicts between Collective salvation versus expanding supply abundance have first ran out of abundance then went through a series of events that saw Oppression anarchy genocide all because supply shortage crept up on them before they realized it because they did not have a free market free thinking market of traders like we do today that are signally us that in the near future supply mainly food and water are going to become in short supply . This Free Thinking society has never had the benefit from past events because Governments always took over and shut up the free thinkers and persecuted oppressed and killed them off because they were in the way of dominating the society and staying in power while the conflicts were raging due to the supply shortages . Today we have a early warning to these supply shortages due to the free market , but our governments are arguing over which way they want to take us , some on the left and their environmental extremists all think we cannot continue to let population grow unfettered and not kill off earths ability to sustain life , the other side thinks we can sustain freedom of choice and solve the issue of unsustainable overpopulation and this is where the 2 side of the political isle are butting heads .

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    Looks to me as if the Dem’s were Finly blended to the middle of the road! ( Hit from both dirrections.) Infilltrated by Rep’s trying to get GOD on their side! L.O.L.!!!

  • JON

    I don’t think they were booing G O D. They were booing the G O P. One is holy and good. The other, not so much!

    • WILDFIRE

      Key words of your comment – “I don’t think” – That is painfully obvious… Your lack of thought, Is it voluntary or involuntary? Maybe your obamacare will be able to cure your thinking issues and thought process.

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    Does that statement about the democrats relation to God mean the Republicans are any better? Did you ever read “Democracy in America” written by Alexis de Tocqueville in about the 1830′s. I read it and I frequently use a copy of Noah Websters 1828 dictionary. As I use them, it gives me better comparison of then and now. I can “live” in early America while reading and step back to today when I put them down. The Christian history of the United States of America helps to. Sort of like Rip Van Winkle sleeping for 20 years. I’m not criticizing when I say America as founded is gone. Nothing of yesteryear is apparent in todays America. This didn’t just evolve naturally. Men like Dewey, Pierce, Horace Mann and their ilk worked to make it happen. As teachers, they determined they could mold the people’s thinking to be what they wanted. Lenin agreed with them when he said: ” People think in words and how they interpret words is who they are. Go for people’s brains and the rest of them will do as they are told. We are not free agents. People were created servants. It only depend on who they serve. We can turn to our Creator for wisdom and do better than we could possibly imagine or open our doors of perception to Satan and take his “advice”. America at it’s founding turned to God and look what they accomplished. Now that we’ve denied God, look at what we’ve got.
    .

  • Kinetic1

    No.

  • Dave Bishop

    Of one thing I am certain: the Republicans will not bring out the anti-God fiasco or most of the other comments, blunders, and unpatriotic blather passing as “powerful speeches”. Although they have done a little sparring, they have not zeroed in on the unapproved “czars” and union thugs appointed to various positions without benefit of congressional approval. Obama will do everything in his power to answer calls from his allies, the union leaders, but he will leave Israel’s leaders on hold. He will welcome the Islamic Brotherhood leader with a presidential banquet, but snub Netanyahu. How much of this will Romney bring up? Probably not much.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Bush rolled out “How great thou art” to capture the unsuspecting. Christians thought he was a Christian and didn’t realize he pledged allegiance to the Zionist. A Zionist Christian? What an oxymoron. When’s the last time a government person swore on the bible to uphold the Constitution and wasn’t lying? The only one that I can recall was Ron Paul.

  • tgeer

    LOL They weren’t booing G-d. They were booing those who were attempting to add religion to our laws – which is expressly forbidden in our US Constitution. I would think that the political group that is represented here, and who seems to believe that they are the only ones in the country who adheres to our Constitution, would be behind the people who are attempting to change our Constitution and inject religion into it.

  • zee333

    OK, let me simplify this for the right-wing brains out there. If the GOP wants to base their platform on a certain religion and Jerusalem…go ahead, it’s your right. The GOP has been wasting our time in Congress all during the last four years. (33 attempts to repeal the ACA)
    For the GOP to criticize the Dems for not including this madness in their platform…RIDICULOUS. The Dems have better things to do than deal with right-wing sky spooks and foreign countries that suck up 3 billion plus of our tax dollars every year.

  • tony

    The 19 Percent Solution
    How to balance the budget without increasing taxes

    http://reason.com/archives/2011/02/14/the-19-percent-solution

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      He might of been many things but he was an economic genius, When Hitler took power, Germany was in midst of a terrible depression. Inflation was rampant. What he did was he froze all salaries and I mean all. His logic was if salaries were frozen, prices would have to come down to a level people could buy. It worked. In three years Germany was in the black. Industry was humming again. That lack of genius on the part of our leaders won’t let that happen. Their greed let’s them think, if you print counterfeit dollars all will be well, particularly their own pocket boxes. Their to stupid to realize that all that they’ve done is prolong the agony and when it comes. I shudder to think.

      • DaveH
      • DaveH

        Forty Centuries of Wage and Price Control: How Not to Fight Inflation:
        https://mises.org/store/Product2.aspx?ProductId=566

      • DaveH

        More on Government meddling in the Economy:
        https://www.mises.org/daily/1935

      • DaveH

        “Your America is doing many things in the economic field which we found out caused us so much trouble. You are trying to control peoples’ wages and prices — peoples’ work. If you do that you must control peoples’ lives. And no country can do that part way. I tried and it failed. Nor can any country do it all the way either. I tried that too and it failed. You are no better planners than we. I should think your economists would read what happened here” — Hermann Goering to American war correspondent Henry Taylor.

  • cawmun cents

    Ever notice how quickly the rhetoric was stepped up when they thought that there might have been a change in the political winds via their godless condition?
    Theres obviously no god,so what are they so defensive about?
    If there is no god like many of them claim,then why is there a push to argue about the whole thing?
    It doesnt stand to reason does it?
    If you argue about something that doesnt exsist then clearly you have lost your ability to reason,right?
    Its like they have taken political LSD,and cant stop tripping.
    This is why what they say doesnt make any sense to us as believers.
    Because they are willing to argue concepts which they claim not to believe in.
    Its just not rational.
    Yet they seem to delight in discussing various shady concepts of what something they clearly dont believe in might be……hmmmm…..am I the only one who sees the fallibilty of their position from the start?
    To say that the democrats are confused is like saying that water is wet.
    Its an obvious thing.
    Their party delights in letting the few decide the fate of the many,its as simple as they are.
    They claim that its about letting everyone have a voice,but 45-50 million unborn children never got to raise their voices.They had no representation from the democratic party.They were stunningly left out of the converstaion,and instead had their lives taken from them before they had a chance to voice their opinions.
    This from the supposedly all inclusive party who lets the dead vote for their candidates.
    Think of all the registered democrats that your party let expire before they had a chance to vote?
    But what do I know?
    Apparently very little……
    Cheers!
    -CC.

  • swampfox

    this needs to be said.
    Jesus is NOT a religion!
    Jesus is a person,I do not have a personal relationship with a religion,but with a PERSON.
    religion is man’s effort to put Jesus in a man made philosophy and is always wrong in various degrees and rife with error.
    librals and democrats love to bandy and use the word religion because religion is manmade and fallible.
    religion ‘humanizes’ the father,the son and the holy spirit.
    man’s ‘wisdom’ is foolishness to God.
    religion says do,Jesus says done.
    Jesus never came to establish a religion,
    Jesus said,I am the way,the truth and the life.
    religion was taken to the cross and crucified by Jesus,matter of
    religion was what Jesus came to abolish,
    so saying I as a Christian follow a religion is offensive to me and is totally inaccurate.
    I go to a non denominational church,you cannot put Jesus in a manmade box.
    religion is ALWAYS flawed and full of hypocracy and error and can be manipulated by whatever
    message that a particular ‘religion’ wants to dissiminate.
    I avoid religion,the bible as holy scripture and holy spirit inspired and god had written
    through men as they were inspired by the holy spirit what to write and how to word it by Jesus
    himself.
    this is what librals and democrats will never understand,one must be born again
    BY the holy spirit through surrendering ones life to the lordship of Jesus Christ.
    Jesus abhors religion,religion via the pharisees and sadjucees are what condemed him and
    fought Jesus’s gospel.Satan is ALWAYS operating in religions and is one of the cheif means
    Satan uses to lead men astray.
    Jesus said his word is truth and so was he and he is,period.
    that why Jesus said,you need no man to teach you,but the holy spirit will teach you as he (the holy spirit) is the spirit of truth.
    if someone says,my religion,my hackles imm
    ediantly stand up and i then intently listen to the holy spirit to show me the error of what’s being said.any error is deception,and if the person who is listening is led by the holy ghost,
    You can be used by Jesus VIA the holy spirit to correct the error they are in at the time.
    that’s why Jesus said the truth will set you free.
    the word (holy bible),is truth in and by itself as it is the very essence of Jesus and is why it is called the LIVING word.

    Jesus is NOT a religion and a religion did not make me a born again son of god,Jesus did.
    so all you who throw the word religion all over,that’s what you know,a manmade philosophy and not the PERSON of the LORD Jesus Christ,the ONLY begotton son of god.
    religion couldn’t save a flea,Jesus can save you to uttermost,
    Jesus is life,his word is life,the rest is crap(ie:religion)

    • Proud to be a Believer

      Very well said! Thanks

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Religion is simply a man’s “Heart felt belief”. Every human being is religous to the extent that we all have heart felf beliefs. Some religions recognize God / Christ. Some don’t: Maybe Satan. As we reach the age of reason I realize as a Christian we will be held accountable. Of all God’s creations, only man has the ability to reason, his link to his Creator. People deny the link but if I’m right, it cost me nothing.

    • Terry

      Jesus did found a church. Read the bible.

  • charles

    The democratic party has been Godless most of it’s life.You can’t say that they don’t worship God They worship a god alright it is the god of this world Lucifer Satan the devil.These folks are the ones who had slavery.These are the ones who persecuted the blacks.These are the people who had white and colored drinking foutains.Who had colored lunch counters who made the blacks sit in the back of the bus.These same democrat’s who hold the black democratic voters in their hands.Yes the democratic party still have most blacks enslaved with a little welfare here and a little welfare there.There are some blacks who have escaped from the masters plantation’s some are truly free but many believe that they are free when they are not.

    • Jesse Fell

      Your description of the Democratic party as the party of slavery, discrimination, and segregation is accurate — until roughly 60 years ago. Then the great swap began.

      It started with FDR’s administration making a few tenative moves toward racial justice; then Truman desegregated the armed forces. The real turnaround probably began when Hubert Humphrey introduced a strong civil right plank into the party’s platform at the 1948 convention, prompting the “Dixiecrats” to walk out. The turnaround became complete when Lyndon Johnson lent this party’s full support to legislation that ended Jim Crowe, guaranteed the right of blacks to vote, and protected them against discrimination in housing and public accomodations. Subsequently, the “solid South” became solidly Republican.

      As for Democrats worshipping the things of this world, haven’t you noticed the way the Republicans bow down before the Golden Calf of $$$$$? It’s been rather hard to miss.

  • Terry

    You can’t be Christian & a democrat. This vote is a single issue about abortion. You can’t expect GOD to bless America when we keep killing millions of his unborn babies. VOTE ROMNEY!!

    • DaveH

      And kill other peoples’ babies. We’ll just call them terrorists and it will be okay.

      • tony

        Romney Ryan need to consider a Investor Opportunity to encourage New Economic growth and innovative efforts by small business that promotes the sector to expand and give more Middle Class Americans a Way to reach out to private sector investment in a ETF basket pool that would all small business and Individuals with Innovative solutions to our economic and commodities supply needs as well as environmental innovative solutions that compliment the efforts to expand supply . The world is at a cross roads where supply in the areas we see inflation tells us we need to start expanding that supply and if we wait too long free market fear will set in and we will lose the time and window of opportunity to get ahead of demand out pacing supply . This has happened over and over through history in the world and very tragic events happen once supply is out stripped and people are struggling desperately to find enough . Peace is only found through abundance in human needs supply and we need to realize this is where we are at this time in history . If Wall Street could offer a ETF traded fund that allows the pooling of Small Businesses to be in the Basket ETF and those businesses then be able to assess what the baskets stock value generated from IPO and stock offering positions this would create the short and long term funding to promote a More Local small business effect on producing supply at the local level and this kind of supply expansion would be felt at the local level . The innovation that would be created by this because of the greater enabling of more individuals to have a greater opportunity to succeed would be phenomenal in our need to find solutions to expand the Food supply chain with . We need to do this Now because if we wait too long we will miss the window to avert a humanitarian disaster and see major conflict and oppressive reaction to societal destabilization leading to a repeat of past events such as Genocide because once the society is out of food supply to this Point it takes too long to expand the supply before the unrest reaches a state of absolution anarchy like past historical events where the supply shortage crept up on them and before they realized this oppressive conflicts and government rise of dictatorships were the end result . This report tells us we are dealing with too tight of a supply source to avert an shortage disaster into the near future as Population growth is continuing and supply is not expanding fast enough as we have for the most part expanded full production on current farmland in the world . At any given time in the world there is only a 60 day supply of grain available in the world supply chain , and it takes 120 days to grow a crop and we only get one time a year to grow it on both sides of the hemisphere so the spread is way to close to serve demand if something interrupts production http://www.cattlenetwork.com/e-newsletters/drovers-daily/Fears-of-global-food-price-crisis-recede-169517426.html .

        If Romney Ryan can persuade the middle class to Believe in this kind of an approach to enabling them to have a shot at the free market system they would see a Nuts and Bolts solution that would encourage them to support this plan that a Romany Ryan administration could inspire . The Vertical farming that we can encourage with the help of small business contributing products and parts for the creation and operations if such facilities would localize supply more at the population centers so less cost to transport supply to the consumer could lower the overall cost of inflation on the current system of the centrally located processing and distribution supply system is set up that is now the inflation victim of Higher energy and imported maintenance parts costs that inflate the overall cost due to the transportation of our food products . http://www.verticalfarm.com If we can grow select foods in these kinds of facilities like fruits and vegetables and free up that farmland for other crops that need to be grown on farmland like grain , we can expand the overall food supply and with lowers energy use due to localizing the production of some of our food chain so transportation costs are lowered the overall effect will lower and stabilize the inflation in our cost of living . Middle Class people will Love you Romney and Ryan and this approach will make sense to them and they will be able to see it empowers them in the communities to start to rebuild the broken economies at the state level of our great Nation !!!! Plus if you include this innovative solution called Fodder Feeds , http://www.foddersolutions.com together with the Vertical Farm solution we can make this USA work for the American People again !!!

  • Smilee

    You been reading too many funny books!!

  • Bern

    If you haven’t watched Joel Gilbert’s DVD “Dreams From My Real Father,” you should. It was exclusively featured at the RNC. This DVD is factual and compelling. You will then know the Obama agenda. It is the number one selling DVD on Amazon. Get it, you won’t regret it!!!! Oscar worthy!! Bern

  • ann

    ” PEOPLE GIVING SPEECHES NOT RUNNING FOR OFFICE” WHAT OFFICE IS CLINT RUNNING FOR? OBAMA GAVE A GREAT SPEECH. ROMNEY’S WASN’T EXACTLY
    STIMULATING AND RYAN LIED ALL THE WAY THROUGH AN ADMITTED IT LATER.

  • jopa

    Romney Booing the 47% will cost him the election.Even Clint is calling Romney stupid.He said” anyone that gives him time to speak at a convention and doesn’t like what he said can suck it “.Clint is more of a Paul supporter.This just gets better every day.

  • Jesse Fell

    The Democrats didn’t “boo God” – what are you taking about? And as for their platform initially not mentioning God – I prefer that to platforms that mention God as a way of sprinkling holy water on themselves — this is nothing but Pharisaism and blasphemy, in my opinion.

    It’s worth mentioning that the word “God” does not appear in the United States Constitution — for the same reason that it does not appear in your washing machine’s repair manual.

    Religion has flourished in this country because of the religious freedom that we all enjoy, and our religious freedom is based on the separation of church and state. It strikes me as odd that so many conservatives, who believe that government is both hopelessly inept an irredeemably corrupt, are so eager for that same government to become actively involved in the most important aspect of human life by far: its religious faith and practices.

  • Corkey

    And the GOP boo’ed the Golden Rule when Ron Paul spoke it in so-called Christian South Carolina. Both parties use God like some sort of tool to win an election. They are both disingenuous. Neither party in their current leadership is worthy of our support.

  • John Beach

    If it does not cost them the election, it should! What it represents is the essential disregard for the source and basis of our entire system. Having disassociated themselves from the religious origins and history of the country because there were aspects of it that involved a hypocritical violation of Christian principles, involving the acceptance and treatment of minorities, they have chosen to throw the proverbial “baby out with the bath water,” choosing to be their own saviors and botching the job. In championing a perverse interpretation of the separation of church and state to mean the exclusion of God, moral principles, instruction in right living and a strict acceptance of right and wrong as prescribed and proscribed, biblically, from public forums, they have no source other than themselves and their opinions about behavior, along with the culture of death which they have promoted, to prove the purposeless waste of their philosophy.
    It is criminal.

  • “Homer”

    The Demorats, and all them that reject God?Jesus Christ are going to loooooose a lot more than the election, something a lot more permanant!! Psalms 9:17 KJV

  • http://none Floyd Hardee

    The Ultra Liberal News Media which is controlled by the likes of G. Soros and other rich multi billionaires like Warren Buffet have convinced the not too bright public that the GOP and its candidates are rich non caring criminals who deny them their just due. If it was not for them they would be rich. Behind closed doors they laugh at how they have duped the public into believing this. Have they duped them? You bet …just look at the poll numbers. BHO has more unemployed, has not cut the debt, but increased it by five, or six trillion dollars. BHO is the reason we have high fuel prices, high food prices and why most folks are from hand to mouth, yet they flock to BHO their Pied Pipper.

    Most of the Hollywood crowd is wealthier than Mitt Romney but they want you to think he is wealthy which he is, but he earned it. He also gives more to charity than most tight fisted liberals. It is a fact Christians and Republicans give more to charity than do Democrats. Democrats like to tax the middle class and then give it to the poor without requiring that they educate themselves or look for a job.

    They keep fuel prices high making it hard to save money, or look for a better job. They lay on tough regulations stifling business growth, hence no new jobs. Yet they are perceived as the party for the poor. Fact, they ar the cause, not the cure, for your problems. wake up black folks, Hispanics, Jews, and everybody. Democrats are liars, and deceivers. They hinder, they do not help. They are for their own releciton, and for making more millions through their back door deals, like the ones G. Soros and Warren Buffet enjoy. DUH!

    This is not meant for the good guys. It is meant for the unenlightened.Please pass it on. These poor folks need to know the truth so they can come out of the drarkness cast on them by the shadowery lies they have been blanketed in by the Democrats who would enslave all of us in their web of deciet.

  • Neil Swan

    The religious right aren’t for religious freedom and laws for people.
    They are for their religious law.

    Neil

  • http://none Harold

    I fear that as my ancestors lost their country, so are we about to loose the Great Nation the USA. We must stand together, and defeat that interloaper. that foriegner Obama. GOD BLESS THE USA.

    Youngeagle

    • Jesse Fell

      Harold, Obama is not an “interloaper” (sic) or a “foriegner” (sic) — he is an American — just as much an American as you or me. And he is doing an excellent job leading our country, under difficult circumstances — one of the mos difficult being that the Republican Party has lost of sense of responsibility for its actions, and has abandoned itself to ideological absolutism. Obama is a grownup among children; people see that; and that is why he is going to be re-elected, for which we all should be grateful. Four more years!

  • brett

    why the heck is this getting rehashed? the constitution does not have god in it what so ever so what’s the big deal? just because the majority of christians in the country don’t define themselves the same as some of those here dose not mean it’s your way or hell. just like many of the forefathers, many christians define themselves as deists and don’t believe in bible thumpin’ fundamentalism.

    p.s. bob livingston, since you bothered to repost this, and richard, vigilant and i are still waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/cheryl.lynn.33886 Cheryl Lynn

    I watched the RNC from beginning to end. It was very informative and had a lot of great moments. Such as the empty chair by Clint Eastwood, Marco Rubio and Paul Ryan’s speech. All the women speakers were great and didn’t mention how to kill babies. All in all great entertainment. I did not watch one minute of the DNC any one who got through that deserves a metal. A shameful bunch of crap and a shameful boo of God, denying Jerusalem the capital of Israel. Any one who reads the Bible knows that Jerusalem is the city of David and the capital of the Jewish people.

  • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

    The reason we have obozo is because most have turned their backs on God, obozo worships a little god and when the Real God gets mad at a nation He sends them a ungodly person to lead, this nation is about to fall and nobody seems to care?

    • Joseph Lundy

      Mr. Fox, according to the Book of Revelation, the whole world is going to fall under the control of the Anti-Christ and that includes the Untied States if it is in existence at the time. These things must take place before Jesus Christ returns to set up His kingdom. That is bound to happen whether or not President Obama is reelected President.

  • Thomas Weaver

    Gosh, I kinda knew all along that the power pushers within the democratic party were godless. For all you others that are in the democratic party, I think you might really know what might happen if you declare yourselves the same way. Hey! If nothing else, declare yourselves as Independents, dissociate with the condemmed, and join the conservative side. You might find common ground and some civility at last.

    • Jesse Fell

      Civility? Have you read the postings on this site — with all the name calling (obozo, etc.), and accusations (Democrats are godless)? If the contributors to these comments are ”
      conservatives”, the conservatives would be the last people I would turn to in search of civility.

      • Nick Czudy

        Benjamin and Joseph. are you guys, Americans living in the USA or from some third world country. Your belief in A God is your problem. But there will be no repercussions to the evil atheists as there is no God. It should be kept out of government decisions.
        History shows that religious dogma was used for the powerful to keep control of the masses. It is the same now. The right wing people in power, understand that as long as they keep up the religious dogma they will be able to control the lower masses and keep the power in the 1% elite. I have never been able to understand how the poorer GOP supporters would support a party that makes their lives more difficult? Is it enough for them to say “Praise the Lord” to be able to keep you under their thumb?
        Please join the 21st century.
        The day there will be total peace and prosperity in this world will be the day that all men will be moral, kind, honest, forgiving and understanding without the threat of some hell or eternal damnation. This belief in these silly ideas will keep us behind the rest of the world.

        Religious zealots here, are just as silly or dangerous as Muslim fundamentalists in the mid east. Especially if they try and push their beliefs on the rest of society.

  • http://personalliberty DEAN

    Linda, you nailed it 100%

  • http://Yahoo Joanne

    It should turn every American off, it was pathethic!

  • http://www.facebook.com/flmiraclelady Jo Ann Aaron

    Discussing religion is great but we have the most important election of my lifetime coming up. Are we going to remain a republic or are we going to face a total economic collapse and end up in socialism? Your vote will determine it. Wake up America. How about watch The Project Sept 26 and 27 at 8 pm EDT on TheBlade.com or channel 212 on Dish network. It will probably be the most important documentary you ever watch. It is about The Islamic Brotherhood’s plan to take over NA and Europe.

    • Nick Czudy

      Hi Jo Ann. I agree. Lets get religion out of politics. Remaining a republic is not the issue. Becoming an Oligarchy is a real threat. I give you a quote by an independent Congressman.

      Bernie Sanders (I-VT) opined in a 2010 “The Nation article that an “upper-crust of extremely wealthy families are hell-bent on destroying the democratic vision of a strong middle-class which has made the United States the envy of the world. In its place they are determined to create an oligarchy in which a small number of families control the economic and political life of our country.”

      What Gov. Romney and the GOP is dedicated to maintain, is a small group of powerful and wealthy people controlling government and the middle class. This is a much more terrifying prospect. The gap between the wealthy and the rest of society has been growing. “Socialism” is the bug-a boo word, that the GOP and far right wing, like to use when ever they need a “gasp” from their base. The USA is so far from socialism it is ridiculous when ever they use it. My parents grew up in Russia under socialism and it is so far from what the right wing, call socialism. You do not know what “Socialism ” is! Helping the disadvantaged does not make for “Socialism”.
      The only response that you will get when using this “S” word is from the far right. it is your mantra. As long as you think like that, there will never be any growth in this country.
      Under the terrible “S” policies of Obama, the rich individuals and the corporations have gotten even richer. the middle class have gotten poorer. How far do you want to take this Oligarchy. This is not socialism!

      Helping with the underprivileged people of our society is not “Socialism”. It is what a good Christian society does. So why are so many of the religious right wing constantly use the “S” word to describe helping out the unfortunate in our society? Hypocrites!
      Will enough be enough when millions start dieing of starvation?
      Do you want the anarchy of millions of people turning to crime to live and feed themselves?
      Do you want to take this class war so far as to start a revolution, as in the French Revolution?
      Don’t you think that a great democratic society will make it fair for all people to be able to live a decent life?
      This American dream, does not mean that everyone wants to be one of the 1% elite. It means that they just want to have a place to live a decent life with a roof over their heads and food on their plates and to be able to raise their children to be able to also live a decent life. For this to happen, we need to strengthen the middle class. This will also allow entrepreneurs and others to make a lot of money. It is not necessary to slant the table in the favor of the 1%. Free enterprise is just doing fine in the last 4 years.
      Now just to be clear. I am not for unions. They have exceeded their usefulness and they have become a way of taking their members to the top end of the middle class. The 1% of the middle class. haha I think that it is about the top 20% if the middle class.
      It is no longer the need to have safe workplaces, fair hours and wages. It has become, “lets get as much as we can get by force and intimidation”. They are the Oligarchy of the middle class. It is outrageous that they are coming out of the woodwork and starting to make demands when we are not out of the recession and there are still millions without jobs or making lower wages. They should be thankful that they did not lose their jobs or take a cut in pay. Zip your lips until the economy is back at 100%.

      Gov. Romney and the GOP are hell bent on ensuring that that the USA becomes an Oligarchy. By maintaining that their comrades in the Health Industry, the Oil, Defense, Wall street and many other areas remain wealthy and run the country, they will remain in power and be able to further control the masses. They will milk the masses of their hard earned money for higher health fees, higher gas prices, higher food prices and on and on.

      Now I am an atheist and I think that Islam is a religion of the ignorant and it is also an Dictatorship, that is run by the elite and its Imams. and it is a means to keep these powerful people in power over the uneducated masses. That is why they do not want to educate their young girls. They like to be in power.
      These recent protests in the mid-east are not true disgust from the masses. This is the Imams inciting this unrest to keep the people under their control.

      They have a simple and not too well know plan to take over the world. Sounds so melodramatic but here is my take. The Imams and religious leaders are telling all Islamic women to have as many babies as possible, to be able to slowly and surely, over populate the world and then to have a majority. This way, they will eventually be able to vote in sympathetic politicians to lean towards their doctrines. I could never believe when statistics state the Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. It is not that more people are flocking to Islam and adapting it, but that they are having the largest population boom in the world. China and other countries are working hard to reduce population. Not the case with Islam.
      Another factor is that when a foreigner comes to the USA to start a new life, by the next generation, the kids have adopted the America ideal and lifestyle. Look at all of the races, Europeans, Latinos, and Asians. The following generations become Americans in their views and lifestyle.
      For Muslims this takes 4 to 5 generations to adapt to the American way of life. So this gives control to the lives of the offspring for many generations. Therefor their master plan will continue to be implemented until they succeed and they will over populate the current country.
      When will we get Sharia Law?
      Now I cannot quote any scientific study or demographics on this. But that is my take on things. Just my opinion for now. Since I am an atheist, I would love to see the whole world drop their religious dogma and just be good, moral and kind citizens of society. Then we will have true peace and prosperity in this world. haha Such a pipe dream. Ok I am ready for the onslaught of protests from many of the readers of this blog.

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        Nick: It is very revealing that the one Senator that you chose to quote was Bernie Sanders, who is best known for his self-avowed socialism. He has been a fan of European-style socialism for decades. Isn’t that the socialism that your parents fled? You wrote “What Gov. Romney and the GOP is dedicated to maintain, is a small group of powerful and wealthy people controlling government and the middle class.” What is your evidence of that? What is the source of your information? Do you ever watch any news network other than MSNBC? I get the impression that you are probably a smart guy, but you don’t read much. You are clearly a big fan of socialism. It hasn’t worked anywhere. Greece is bankrupt. Spain and France are close to bankruptcy. People have to wait for weeks, and sometimes months, to get medical procedures in Great Britain and Canada. You are damned lucky to be in this country and not Russia. Don’t try to turn us into the country that your parents fled. If you really want to LEARN something about capitalism, read Free to Choose, by Milton Friedman. Than read Liberty and Tyranny by Mark R. Levin. If you will read those two books, I will agree to read two of your favorite socialist books. You seem to hate religion. I am an atheist, but I don’t hate religion. Religion is one of the many spokes in the wheel of America, and we are free to believe whatever we want to believe. That is the way our Founders planned it, and it has worked very well for over two hundred years.

        • Nick Czudy

          Hi Mike R.
          You have said some rational things that I partly agree with and understand.
          The reason that I quoted Sen. Bernie Sanders is that he is independent and usually speaks, without the usual talking points and rhetoric that the both sides spout.

          When the GOP uses that term “Socialist” that loses me and puts my rhetoric shield on instantly. What was socialism in the USSR and what is presently in UK, France etc is like night and day.
          The GOP likes to use the “S” word when there is any talk of medical care or unemployment insurance etc. That is not socialism. It may work for the base, but for anyone else. It identifies that person immediately as a right wing zealot. This is what is says about that person. It says that they are gullible, uneducated, stupid. fervent, and polarized. It immediately says that one should not listen to anything that follows as it is prejudiced rhetoric.
          What the far right calls “S” is just what a democratic, modern society does to look after the less fortunate people. Should we let people die in the street. When many lose their jobs, as in 2009, should we let them starve? The negative side of this is that desperate people will do desperate things to survive. There will be anarchy and revolution. Look at France during the revolution and in the UK with the potato famine.
          So for once, will the GOP stop calling, anyone that is for modern social values,a Socialist?

          What you are calling socialism is a far cry from what my parents faced when they were in the Ukraine. Like night and day difference. There is no socialism in USA or Canada, period. These are social benefits that modern democracies all have.

          Another myth that has been perpetrated since the Clinton presidency has been the myth about the USA medical system being the best in the world and the need to preserve it.
          The medical industry poured hundreds of millions into keeping the status quo. The basic fact is that the health system is making money, hand over fist and will not give up this cash cow no matter what. Unfortunately the GOP have been one party that takes these lobbying bribes so that their 1% buddies will keep making huge profits, on the backs of sick people.
          This is the 1% oligarchy of wealthy people and business’s that want to continue making a fortune. The GOP talks about the 15 man death panel making decisions about people’s health. Would you rather want the CEO of a large HMO making the decision to treat you when you are sick or stop your treatment when the cap is reached. I’m sorry, but that is a no brainer. Millions of Americans have died to perpetuate the profits for the hospitals and HMO’s. Nowhere else in the world is the medical system run for profit by private businessmen. Look at the world wide statistics on infant deaths. The USA is far down the list in world side medicine.
          The other myth that this also perpetrated was that the Canadian, English, French, Cuba and all of the other western countries have inferior systems. Not only are they operating at half of the cost of the USA system, they have all of the fancy equipment and services, except for the very specialized procedures of which there are some specialists in the world. I am 60, anyone can walk into these hospitals and be looked at immediately. emergency situations are in surgery within hours. Elective surgery is scheduled to the hospitals advantage. Look at the Michael Moore film and he accurately represented the health system in those countries. The nice thing is the peace of mind of not having a sickness cause bankruptcy or a major change in life style. When my son had an appendix attack, he was in surgery within one hours of arriving at a Canadian hospital. I China, I had an X-Ray and knee surgery the very next day. This is a GOP myth. I wish that they would stop saying it. It is not true.
          My philosophy is that medicine and education should be offered to everyone at cost and not for profit. Only in the USA does this take place. Why don’t these entrepreneurs start a factory or something else to make their profit.
          None of those countries covet the USA system. This is propaganda that was invented by a lot of wealthy people that want to keep their great cash cow.
          I watch the BBC, CBC, CNN, Fox and MSNBC. I know what is rhetoric and what is not. I do have a brain and understand the system very well.
          What I do not understand is how one party can try and do what every they can to make the other party fail. That is what has happened for the last 4 years. How dare the GOP say that their only purpose is to make Obama fail. That means that they want the USA to fail. This is treason. They should not only lose their jobs they should be hanged for treason. This economy has been crawling along. If there was actual co-operation in Congress, then we would have half of the unemployment. The GOP did this so that they could use the mantra that Obama’s policies have failed. Well it hasn’t and it would have been much better if they would have worked to improve it instead of stone walling every effort to get the country back on track.

          I grew up Catholic and just after being educated and lifes experiences, I came to the conclusion that there is not a God and all of the things that I had been taught were lies.
          I am not an immoral person. That is not an exclusive value of religious people. Look at Islam. I would never want some one killed that did not want to follow my philosophy.
          Education will be the savior of this world. If people want to believe that is fine. But do not cause any harm to the body or mind of anyone else.
          I look forward to my three visits a year that the local Jehovah Witnesses carry on, I am happy to pick holes in their thinking and I feel food that I might have converted at least one family with the help of my little dog. That is a story for another time.
          We need to teach our kids to have open minds and to listen to the evidence and to come up with their own conclusions. We will have a better world.
          regards
          Nick Cz

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            Nick: That was a very long response. You quoted Bernie Sanders and Michael Moore. That tells me a lot about what’s inside your head. I might quote Thomas Jefferson, Alexis de Tocqueville, John Locke, or James Madison. It would take a long time for me to respond to each of your leftist comments, and there would be no payoff. Your are a marxist and no one is going to turn you into a capitalist. I’ll just leave you with one final thought. The marxist Russia that your parents fled didn’t become a marxist country overnight. It happened slowly, one step at a time. That is also what happened to Greece. That is what is happening to France, Spain, and Great Britain. That is also what’s happening here, but after Romney and Ryan are elected in a few weeks, capitalism will be resuscitated, our Constitution will be given the respect it deserves, and we will all soon benefit from a much healthier economy.

          • Nick Czudy

            Mike R. I am a capitalist my whole life. I have started and worked for myself since I left school at 21 years of age. I am liberal and I am conservative. But………..
            Calling me a Marxist, just gave away the typical Right WIng rethoric. I hate unions and I am a union buster. So I know where you sit.
            You really like to put someone into a pigeon hole, don’t you. Maybe it is simpler for you to know things as bloack ot white. So I am a Marxist and a Muslim and a atheist.
            there you go. You have really pecked me right on. haha.
            I haven’t read most of the authors that you mentioned. I have only become interested in politics in the last year. Before that I have read more technical articles and books to better invent things for my company. Opps I am a designer, that means that I am a Bohemian. Do you have to Pigeon hole people into simple one word desriptions.
            Someone earler said that Obama said once something like…(My muslim roots) Bingo, he is now a Muslim.
            Everything isn’t black and white. Just as I do not think that all GOP Republicans are white, wealthy, hypocritical, lieing, stupid, simple, cheating, religious, back stabbing, gun toting, freedom yearning, government is evil thinking Oligarchs. No I do not think that is true. People are not that simple.

          • Frank Kahn

            The phrase Obama said was “My Muslim Faith” which does make him by extension a Muslim. If he had said his Muslim roots that would just mean some ancestor or teacher was Muslim.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank. So he says “His Muslim faith” and that makes him a Muslim. He gets up at 5:00am and kneels and points to Mecca every morning and prays for an hour. Then repeat again 4 times per day. He always makes his wife and two daughters wear the Hababs. He would have to wear a beard, since he is married. He would not be playing basketball, since games and sports are frowned on. He would not sing the Green song as singing is also not allowed. He believes that he needs to kill all infidels and will go to heaven with 72 virgins,
            On and on. Get real. I do not think so. There is absolutely nothing that he says or does that shows he is a muslim. Do you really buy that? There is no evidence that you can give to show that he is a Muslim.

          • Frank Kahn

            He said he is a Muslim, I think it is the only truth he has ever said. All other items you mentioned are not required in his position. I see many Muslim women who dont wear the required traditional dress in this country. That does not make them NOT MUSLIM.

          • Nick Czudy

            He has also said that he is a Christian many times. Does saying he is a Muslim once, trump saying he is a Christian a dozen times?
            Name one thing that he has done that supports that he is a Muslim. Is this a bid deal for you? Will it help you to keep the hate up for Obama? Will it justify, the argument that he has failed in being the president?
            he you think that he is a Muslim, then I will never dissuade you.
            You will be in a very small selection of people that believe that.
            Nick

          • Frank Kahn

            Actually everything he does indicates a predisposition towards the Muslim faith. And I dont hate him for his faith, I hate him because he is a consummate moronic criminal. He can lie about being a Christian all he wants, it is his actions that prove he is not. And, by the way, it is not a small group of people that KNOW he is Muslim.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank. I have never seen anything actions that signifies he is a Muslim. All I have seen is an educated and careful President that thinks before he runs off his mouth. Looks at every problem and comes up with a rational action. One who does what he says. Tries to be bi-partisan. Gives in to the dismay of his party to GOP on many bills and ideas. It sure looks like a typical Christian American president.

            What are these actions that give away his closet Muslimism??

            Are you saying that he told the Arab world that the USA did not approve and sanction the silly video that poked fun at Islam. Nonsense. That is called diplomacy, Noting there. It is not written in the Koran, (I think? Is it?)
            Is it some bull crap about not supporting Mubarak and letting the Islamic brother hood get elected. I do not know how powerful and influential Obama is, but he surely did not have anything to do with that. Is it about mentioning freedom of speech and he names many religions?
            I asked for some examples of anything that shows he is a Muslim.
            Please give me three examples of actions that Obama has done that proves that he is a Muslim?
            I do not buy typical rhetoric I am not part of any base. i am not gullible. Prove it.
            Nick Cz

          • Frank Kahn

            You sir are a blind ignorant moron. Nothing you say about Obama is the truth, it is all BS created by lying fascist Cretan lap dogs in his administration. Read his books, read his lips, check his past. He is as devout a Muslim as any there is. Check his personal actions in relation to the Muslim world, it is not diplomacy it is pandering to his chosen religion. I will not waste my time attempting to prove something to someone like you who has no desire nor intention of seeing the truth. Find a nice hole to crawl into where you can be together with everything that actually believes in the Muslim Kenyan who invaded out white house.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank.
            I thought that you were a pretty level headed and intelligent man.
            Your latest response, sure proved that wrong You have just thrown all logic in the wind and are going on and spouting pure bull [expletive deleted] as if it is the truth. I can see now that you are one of the extreme right wing fanatics that will take some little shred of evidence and want to make it into the truth because you want to.
            I have not read any of Obama’s books and I will not have the time to do that in the near future. I have a pile of books that are next in line for me to read, and they are not in that list.
            Why don’t you tell me what in those books turned your mind so vehemently against Obama? Obviously there was something there that affected you personally.
            I still assume that you are an intelligent and moral person.
            It seems that I have hit a nerve to offend you. That was not my intention.
            I have an open mind and I am trying to understand how normal rational people can get so extreme?

          • Frank Kahn

            If you are either unable or unwilling to check the facts on your own, I will not provide you with quotes that you will simply brush aside as my imagination. The truth is out there for any “intelligent rational human being” to see. Your decision to be be blind to reality is not my problem. What the Illegal Kenyan has done to me personally is to treat my fellow citizens as if they are stupid worthless trash. It is the same as what you do by blindly following his administrations blatant lies and disregard for our citizens.

            When you find the time to THINK and to RESEARCH THE TRUTH, then it will be possible to have a rational discussion. I dont see that happening with you in any foreseeable future.

            And for your puking up that “RIGHT WING EXTREMIST” crap, if telling the truth is right wing I am guilty. If, expecting Obama to be OPEN AND HONEST is extremism, I am guilty. If, expecting people to be intelligent is extremism, I am guilty. If, believing in God and the Constitution is extremism, I am guilty.

            To be in opposition to your ignorant views, based on blind faith in Obama, is not extremism, it is simply a condition created by seeing what is there for anyone to see.

            I have no desire to be your mentor in this, if you want to learn do it, if you want to be blind and ignorant then keep doing what you are doing. It does not matter how you believe when it comes to reality, the world is what it is and your opinion cant change it.

          • Nick Czudy

            Hello Frank.
            In reply to your last post. I do my research from what is said and done everyday. What you call research is trying to find some slim hair that you can slant to your preconceived view points.
            You keep calling Obama the Illegal Kenyan. Why? He was born in Hawaii. You also do not believe an official state birth certificate. The facts are that he is legal and he is American. That myth was debunked long time ago, and only a few extreme nut jobs like Donald Trump and others are still bringing up this ridiculous cause.
            The majority of Americans that hear this rant will think the perpetrators as nut jobs.
            That is fact.
            You are just being belligerent to keep Calling Obama that.
            How has Obama treated you and your fellow citizens as stupid worthless trash?
            Everything that I have seen see’s Obama make every decision carefully and well thought out. He treats everyone with respect, Even foreigners that you have complained about. This is not anything that I have seen. You will have to tell me how your have been mistreated.
            I am not aware of following his administrations blatant lies. If fact I am not aware of any lies coming from the Obama Admin. He seems to be one of the most honest presidents that I have ever seen. There has been no evidence of him lying. They do not seem to disregard the citizens.
            People being intelligent is not a trait of extreme views. They usually skirt the truth to make their points. That is not intelligence.
            You can believe in God if you want. I give you that right, But I believe that is should stay out of government. That is your personal right. The Constitution is the basis of the US government. I do question that the Constitution made more than one hundred years ago should be followed blindly. I think that some of the policies need to be amended to be relevant to to-day. The founding fathers could not have anticipated, our society so far into the future. It is a good basis to start, but needs to be brought up to date.
            I do not have any blind faith in Obama and his policies. I have a rational and intelligent mind to be able to listen to any politician, and to discern what is bull and what is the truth.
            You have issues that you need to work out when you do what you call research.

          • Smilee

            Nick,

            With frankie so full of hatred and so deep in denial your truths have no chance of penetrating through this hate and denial but thanks for the effort. It is so nice to see a few like yourself willing to tell the truth, it is seldom seen on here,

          • Frank Kahn

            My name is Frank and denial is the state of your residence not mine.

          • Smilee

            Nice to hear you know your name. But your still just a big [expletive aimed at another commenter deleted] joke and good for a big laugh but nothing else.

          • Frank Kahn

            Your statements about Obama’s careful consideration for everyone is a prime example of your blindness and faith in the satanic abomination in the White House.

            There has been no proof provided that Obama was born anywhere in the US let alone Hawaii. You can pretend that he was born there but it has not been proven and never will.

            Respect for everyone? He is the most racist person I have ever encountered, he jumps on the race bandwagon quicker than Al Sharpton. He signed an executive order that is aimed at improving the black citizens education at all cost. He thinks it is the white mans educational system that makes black male students drop out of school. He thinks that poor black boys get picked on when they are disciplined for misconduct in school. His executive order sets up an all black teacher, counselor and student system because the white man doesnt understand the special needs of black students. All items in my statements are accurately depicted according to the wording of the executive order. Nothing racist about that now is there. If a white president tried to setup something like that for only white kids he would be tarred and feathered.

            Never lied??????????????? Never told the truth is more like it.
            1. Unemployment will never go above 8 percent
            2. close gitmo.
            3. pull all troops out of Afghanistan
            4. there are no terrorist attacks just human caused disasters
            5. we are not at war with Islam
            6. Will have the most transparent administration ever
            7. The death of our ambassador in Libya was the result of a demonstration gone terribly wrong.
            8. The attack on the Libyan consulate was the result of a video insulting Mohammad
            9. Our standing in the world on education is low because the blacks in our country are poor learners (not given the right opportunity to learn)
            10. If you have a successful business you didnt build it.
            11. The government builds and maintains the infrastructure that makes all businesses possible.
            12. He saved the automobile manufacturing industry saving 1 million jobs. (Ok maybe he saved GM but 80% of the million jobs are in China.)
            13. If he had a son he would look just like Trevon.

            I can list many more lies if needed. I wont accept the Clintonesque manner of manipulating the language to say it wasnt really a lie because it depends on your definition of the word lie.

            You might try and say that some of his promises were not kept because of obstructionist actions by the Republicans but that doesnt really wash either since in many cases the Democrats voted along with the Republicans in defeating Obama.

          • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

            You are right, Obama has never said that he was Muslim.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVn59TC2QqM

          • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

            “The phrase Obama said was “My Muslim Faith” which does make him by extension a Muslim.”

            No, your opinion comes from not watching, or reading, the whole interview with Stephanopolis. That is where you made your mistake.

            Stephanopolis was talking to Obama about what people were saying ABOUT him, not what he has said himself. Stephanopolis was saying that people were talking about his Christian faith, and Obama corrected him. People had been talking about his Muslim faith, which was entirely wrong. Obama is not, and has never been, a Muslim.

          • Frank Kahn

            No, I am not mistaken and listened to the whole interview and I do realize that people with limited brains like you seem to not understand the English language. I will not try to quote the exact words without going back to listen again but he said My Muslim Faith exactly, and he did not say everyone is talking about it. He said, McCain never mentioned my Muslim Faith. He was referring to the 2008 campaign and he was asserting that the opposition in that campaign did not mention his personal faith in their campaign. The interviewer said “you mean your Christian faith!” and Obama said “Yes my Christian faith”. Now I am not a psychologist but his original statement is deemed true and evidenced by what is called a Freudian slip. And if you dont know what that is, here is a short explanation. A Freudian slip is caused when a person is attempting to explain something that is essentially untrue and his subconscious mind puts the truth into his or her words without the person having control of it.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank. tigeer is absolutely correct. You are the one that doesn’t seem to have a grasp of the English language. Obama is talking about what the Fox news and Conservative media were calling him. when corrected by the commentator “My Christian Faith” he said that was what he was being called. Then he said that he found that deeply offensive.

            Here is the complete transcript for anyone to read,
            You are only reading what you want to read into it and do not see the forest for the trees. You are being hung up on the word that he said,,,,”My Muslim faith” He was talking about what the right was calling him. This is what he said…………
            “Well what I am saying is that he has a suggestion that I am a Muslim”

            transcript of Obama’s interview…………………………………………………………………………..

            (Interviewer) You mentioned your Christian faith. uhmm yesterday you took off after the Republicans for suggesting your Muslim connections.
            Just a few minutes ago, Rick Davis ,uhm, John McCain’s campaign manager said that they’ve never done that. “This is a false and cynical attempt to play victim.”

            (Obama) ah ..you know what, these guys love to throw a rock and and hide, hide their hand . ah ah they ah..
            (Interviewer) The McCain Campaign has never suggested that you have Muslim connections
            (Obama) No No no but,…. but they …I don’t think that..when you ; look at what is being promalgated on Fox News, lets say and Republican commentators, who are closely aligned to these folks.

            (Interviewer) John McCain said that was wrong.

            (Obama) Well..look.. the ahh… Listen, you and I both know the minute that Gov. Palin was ah… was forced to talk about her daughter, I immediately said “that is off limits”.

            (Interviewer) John McCain said the same thing about questioning your faith.

            (Obama) What was the first thng that the McCain campaign went out and did, they said look ahh “these Liberal blogs, that support Obama are out there attacking Gov. Palin”
            Lets not play games, …….what I was suggesting , ah, you are absolutley right that John McCain has not ..ah…talked about my Muslim faith and you are absolutely right that has not come from….

            (Interviewer) Christian Faith.

            (Obama) ….my Cristian Faith .and Well what I am saying is that he has a suggestion that I am a Muslim and I think that ..ah ..his ..ah his campaign ah , upper echelon said not either.
            What I think is fair to say is that , coming out of the republican camp there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I’m not who I say I am,
            when it comes to my faith. This is something which I find deeply offensivel And it has been going on for a pretty long time.
            the END of quote.

            It is pretty obvious Frank what he said was that the Fox news and conservative commentators were trying to paint Obama as his Muslim faith and it deeply offended him..

            If you cannot see exactly what was said, I think then that, you want it to be what you are thinking so badly, that you cannot see the actual facts. As I said earlier, it now discloses to me and to others like (Tigeer) that you have an agenda and are bending the truth to suit your beliefs.
            Frank, no one with a brain will accept your opinion. It is here in black and white.
            Nick Cz

          • Frank Kahn

            You can try and twist it any way you want, even reading the text he said his Muslim faith and then changed it when corrected by the interviewer. You are the one who is not taking it in context. You try to pull something from before that is not related and paste it into that statement. wont work. WE ARE NOT BUYING YOUR ATTEMPTS TO CHANGE REALITY

          • Nick Czudy

            Tigeer.
            You are absolutely correct. I analysed the interview word for word and you are correct. Frank is wrong. I think that his vision and hearing is clouded with with what he feels and wants to hear.
            Nick

          • Frank Kahn

            You have several problems, first of all trying to think is apparently not your forte. Second you are blind to the truth about the Kenyan squatting in our White House. Third, I have listened over and over again and what he said is what I say he said in the context that I stated. Your opinion as a naive Obamaphyle is not credible since you fail to make any effort to see the truth.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank. I also listened to it about 50 times and the transcription is word for word accurate.
            Obama was referring to what FOX and the Right wing media was calling him “My Muslim faith” he said according to the Right wing. This was annoying to him.
            Frank. from your words, I can visualize you foaming at the mouth. You want some reason to want to hate Obama, because he is the best President we ever had. So you want him to be a Muslim, so that you can hate him. So you are hearing what you want him to be saying. That is why the rest of the world has never heard this, as you have, and they laugh when they hear someone like you call Obama a Muslim.
            Frank, you have joined the ranks of the loonies, in everyone’s eyes.

          • Frank Kahn

            speak only for you and your delusional butt buddies. As for Obama being the best, yes he is the best snake oil salesman I have ever seen. He might be the best criminal ever encountered. He is not now nor has he ever been a legally elected president of the united states

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank …..It is obvious that you hate Obama. I am not sure why? But it is obvious.
            Obama is the furthest thing from being an Muslim and all of the other things that in this political nightmare,that they have been accusing Obama of. We have been submitted to a partisan battle for the last two years. It is an insane process and the division in this country is destroying it. What we need is some co-operation between the parties and we would be out of this recession and the economy would be humming.

            Anyway, I have learned where this partisan lie about Obama being a Muslim, came from.
            And now I know the answer. I will not torment you any more.

          • Frank Kahn

            the partisanship and gridlock is a direct result of Obama’s bullheaded requirement that everything be his way or no way at all. I am not what you say or think, I am a rational person who can understand economics enough to know that his insane BULL$HIT will destroy our economy. I applaud the LIMITED amount of restrictions being used by the republicans to reduce the harm Obama is doing to us. Wake up and join the rest of the thinking world that sees him for what he really is. We are not a minority anymore.

          • Smilee

            OH! COME ON?? YOUR TOTALLY IRRATIONAL AND IF IT WERE NOT FOR YOUR SERIOUS CASE OF DENIAL YOU WOULD KNOW IT TO

          • Frank Kahn

            Nothing insane or idiotic, and not in denial. You spout equally ignorant garbage when you defend him without any realistic proof of anything positive. Any time there is partisan gridlock in the government Democrats seem to think somehow it has to be the Republicans fault. Partisan means that neither side will work with the other. To say it is the Republicans in congress that are keeping things from happening is BS. If Obama wants something GOOD to be accomplished he will have to work with the Republicans not against them. Bi-partisan means that both sides compromise in an effort to accomplish what is BEST for the country. The Republican side of the aisle has the responsibility to perform as we want them to not as the illegal POTUS wants.

            You want reality, the majority (actually a super majority if you go by the definition used for congress) of citizens do not want AHC forced on them. DID YOUR ANOINTED KENYAN LISTEN TO THE CITIZENS? DID THE DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS LISTEN TO THEM? HAS ANYONE WHO WROTE THE MASSIVE (NOT REALLY ABOUT HEALTHCARE) BILL EVER EXPLAINED WHAT IS REALLY IN IT AND HOW MUCH IT WILL REALLY COST?

            I have heard stupid BS coming from the Democrats that say it was the Republicans that cost us our AAA+ credit rating. Another BS statement. It was partisan gridlock (mostly caused by Obama) that cost it. If the other side would do what the majority of the citizens of the US want and work on a balanced budget by reducing spending, then there would not have been a gridlock. It does not make any difference how many times Obama and the Democrats say that it will get better by raising the debt ceiling and increasing taxes on the wealthy. The truth of the situation is that the spending has to be cut below the level of expected revenue for us to improve our economic situation.

            NO, your feckless leader is not concerned with what is best for us nor does he care what we want. DENIAL, it is you who is in denial because you fail to accept the reality of what IT (the illegal Kenyan) is doing to our country.

            Now, about him being illegal and Kenyan. If he is a natural born citizen then he has to prove it. No more BS fake this and that and no more hiding documents. Every piece of evidence shows he is not a NBC (NATURAL BORN CITIZEN), so many ways to show that. His father was not an American citizen, case closed. No documented proof he was born on US soil, if not then case closed. If he by some miracle is or was a NBC then we get to his Indonesian citizenship. He had to relinquish his US citizenship to become a citizen of India. If he did not re-instate his US citizenship then he is still not allowed to be president.

            I will not argue with you over these items because it is Barak Obama that has to answer the questions not you. What you think is true about him has no weight in determining the facts about his past.

          • Smilee

            You remind me of a dog chasing its tail, spin spin spin, this is typical of persons in denial in addition to having nothing intelligent yo say

          • Frank Kahn

            Your personal ignorance is evidenced by you inability to respond intelligently instead of name calling.

          • Smilee

            I SAID: You remind me of a dog chasing its tail, spin spin spin, this is typical of persons in denial in addition to having nothing intelligent to say

            YOU SAID: Your personal ignorance is evidenced by you inability to respond intelligently instead of name calling.

            I NOW SAY: You say name calling where in it did I name call, I did not and that makes you a liar to. I stated my opinion of you that is all and I believe it to true of you. Truth hurts doesn’t it but that is not my fault.

          • Frank Kahn

            You did do name calling and the post is there to verify my statement.

          • Smilee

            Your a big joke, what name calling are you referring too, the reason you cannot tell us is because it only exists within your mind and because you are in denial you cannot recognize that truth. Your a real sad case!!

          • Frank Kahn

            I am still waiting for you to say something that is not based on name calling.

          • Smilee

            I can not address that until you tell me what you are talking about, what name calling. That is just your spin and lies and you are asking the impossible. Like I sad you are a very confused sad case

  • Hopingforbetter

    A wise approach would be to vote for conservative Christians in House & Senate also. We have also done this to ourselves. We let communists/Marxists disguised as Democrats take over our beloved country & never fired a shot. We let teachers who are big union people take over our schools. Therefore, putting in unqualified teachers with no heart to dumb down our children. Jesus Christ warns us that anyone who harms a child will wish he had
    Never been born.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Hopingforbetter: Ditto

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      Hoping: I’m an atheist, but I agree completely with what you said about our schools.

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      “Read his books, read his lips, check his past.”

      We did. The majority of us did not agree with you. Your conclusions did not make sense.

      • Frank Kahn

        define the word most and the word us

        • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

          “define the word most and the word us”

          The majority of US voters in 2008. You know, those of us who didn’t buy into the hysteria surrounding the anti-Obama people and voted for Obama.

          • Frank Kahn

            So it is really a 4 year old past tense of them rather than us. And, it is really many not most since many have seen the error of their ways in voting for him last time. Present tense will only be determined next month, then if he wins (with a majority of voters not just the most) you can make your statement truthfully.

        • Smilee

          You don’t know the meaning of the word most and us????????????????? Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Frank Kahn

            I understand both words, just dont understand their usage in the post I was responding to. Most is relative to us. Defining who “us” is lets me know what the “most” is referring to. I cant disagree with the statement until I know the full meaning.

          • Smilee

            EXCUSES, EXCUSES!!!!!

          • Frank Kahn

            When you have something intelligent to say let us know, we will wait for a few years if needed.

          • Smilee

            This is the correct and intelligent response to your garbage. If you were not in denial you would know that

  • gunner689AI

    the demorats were just showing their true colors. they spit in God’s face with their believe in abortion and acceptance of gay rights. Their next deathnell is by trying to get America to turn her back on Israel and shake hands with the devil, the muslims.

    • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

      gunner: What is your opinion on the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty?

  • Billy

    First, approx. 90% democrats dont believe there is a real GOD, ( Jesus Christ) who came in the flesh and was crucified and rose the 3rd day, for our sins. John 3:16 for GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who-ever beleives in him will be saved.

    Most democrats support humanism, communism, marxism etc. and take part in the (survival of the fistist) rather than admit they are sinners and need a savior to save them from eternal hell and fire. Of course some democrats did worship Obama riding on a donkey in Desmoine, Iowa. So, maybe the democrats would rather worship a phony man than the real savior and lord Jesus Christ. Here is the website that has it;
    http://www.wnd.com/2009/01/87040/

    • Joseph Lundy

      Mr. Billy, Hell is not just reserved for Democrats…it is reserved for Republicans, too!

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        JL: Is a reservation necessary? I’d like a table for five.

        • Joseph Lundy

          Sorry there willbe no tables there…you will just be tormented and burning in eternal flames forever.

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            JL: That sounds like a night shift factory job I had when I was in college.

  • Becky oBryan

    Hey Nick C:
    It wasn’t the Christians that flew a plane into the twin towers and the Pentagon and the Pennsylvania field on 9/11. It wasn’t the Christians who just killed our ambassador in Lybia and… it wasn’t the Christians who lied about it.

    • Nick Czudy

      BECKY O ‘BRYAN. Yes it was not the Christians. It also wasn’t the Jews or the Atheists and it wasn’t many other people or races in the world. It was some Muslim extremists. As we call terrorists. They got a cause to harm to the USA and the west. There are many reasons that has developed. Maybe it is jealousy over the wealth of the west, maybe the strong arm tactics and the imperialistic military. Maybe they think that the USA is like the big kid on the block and they are fighting back. Maybe it is a loose interpretation of their religions beliefs. It is just my point that this kind of religious fervor is one of the main causes of war and fighting in this world. I for one would like to see everyone get educated and stop chasing these silly and dangerous religious causes and spouting archaic religious dogma. The USA is as religious as other parts of the world and more so than England and France. It is holding back the development of the world to keep these beliefs.
      The one thing that the Muslims are doing that few people are seeing, is that they are encouraging their families to have as many babies as possible, so raise their population until they can take over the world. It is part of their religion and philosophy. That is why religious statistics are saying the Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. They are not converting that many people. They are giving birth to many new Muslims.

      • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

        Nick: You obviously have never read the koran or the hadithe. If you had, you wouldn’t be attempting to explain muslim behaviour by saying ‘maybe it was this’ or ‘maybe it was that’.
        The very core of their religion compels them to convert the entire globe to islam and kill those who refuse to be converted. Muhammed was a thief and a murdering thug. If he were alive today, he would have gold front teeth, a dozen hookers working for him, and he would be wholesaling crack cocaine. Islam is a 1500 year old hate group disguised as a religion. We shouldn’t let any more of the bastards into the country. Islam is spreading like a cancer across the glove. We already have two muslim congressmen (Ellison and Carson), and there are muslims in every branch of government. If you don’t already have contempt for islam, you will after you read the koran.

        • Nick Czudy

          Mike.R.
          My take is that all religions are keeping this world from progressing and alleviating our problems of famine and war. I think that religions are holding back progress and education, by perpetuating lies and falsehoods and making susceptible people believe them.
          At the top of the list is the Muslim faith. I have met many and they are quite docile. There are a lot of them that take the Koran literally. there are those that take advantage of it to instill the hate that the fundamentalist terrorists use, to their advantage. To answer your question, I have not read the Koran. If I had time, for historical purposes, I would like to read it. But I am busy and have more enjoyable reading to do. I have gotten the gist of what is in it though.
          I agree with you in some of your points. IIslam is the top of the list for religions that are determined to undermine and take over the whole world. I also agree that their belief is that the whole world should embrace it or be killed. Look at the idiot Taliban that would shoot a 14 year old girl for wanting an education. They live in the past. I personally would like to see the end of this kind of evil and hate. It is their plan to infiltrate and reproduce, until they are a majority in the world.
          On another point, I would also like to see evangelists like B. Hill stop bilking money from the poor and pensions of gullible people. We need to help and protect people that are susceptible to this type of crime. I just listened to a story of a US congressman, that is on the Science and Tech committee, telling a crowd of bible thumpers that the earth is 10,000 years old and science is a lie. He states that the Bible should guide the government. How could you possibly allow such an uneducated idiot to have such a say in real science and the running of our government? This is a crime. Who would vote for someone like this?
          No wonder the government has been so slow to accept the idea of Global warming. We will destroy our planet and people like this are a menace to all the world. There is much that organized religion has damaged and impeded our children. they need to grow up with real information and not dogma. This is a crime. Religions zealots, please worship in your own way and stop trying to influence others to follow you. If you believe it, keep it to yourself.
          By the way, I also heard that Muhammad liked women and whores. It was the basis of the “Satanic Verses” He liked women and liked to party. haha Sounds like me. am I a Muslim? Anyone that follows such a fool is a bigger fool.
          I am not familiar with Carson and Ellison. Are they really Muslims, or is it just that they are modern, conciliatory people that have had a bad label put on them, just like they call Obama a Muslim. Give me a break! I just listened to a woman on TV calling Obama a communist. When asked to explain her view, she said that she just knew. This is exactly the type of idiot that is not doing any of us any good. best regards. I do enjoy the many view points that are coming out of this discussion.

          • http://gravatar.com/124andmore MikeR

            Nick: I read the koran on 9-12-01. I didn’t know anything about islam prior to that, and I wanted to learn as much as possible about the thugs who attacked us the day before. I read it in eleven hours. It is very simple language, probably because muhammed was an illiterate thug. In my copy of the koran, one third of each page is arabic. My copy has 604 pages, so when you subtract the arabic text, it is equivalant to reading about 400 pages. You said that you know muslims who are docile. I don’t think you would believe they are docile if you could read their minds. Their heads are filled with the violent hate that is in the koran. You said that “some” muslims take the koran literally. Muslims believe that every word in the koran is the word of god as told to muhammed by the angel gabriel. They ALL take it literally.
            Religion is not a part of my life. As soon as I was old enough to think for myself I started to question the most bizarre beliefs of christianity – adam and eve, the virgin birth, miracles, the resurrection, heaven, and hell. And the most bizarre of all – the concept of original sin – the alleged motivation for christ to die on a cross. It doesn’t bother me if people have religious beliefs (except for islam). People are usually born into their religion. If it unites their family, or if they find comfort in their religion, it is a positive influence in their lives. One of my biggest concerns is that we will become involved in a war defending Israel in a battle with Iran. It is a conflict over whose bullsh%t is the true bullsh%t as told to them by their imaginary friend in the sky. Not one young American should have to die fighting such a stupid war.
            Keith Ellison is a muslim U.S. Congressman from Minnesota. Andre Carson is a muslim U.S. Congressman from Indiana. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s closest aide is a muslim with family ties (mother and brother) to the muslim brotherhood. Most of our Senators and Representatives are more interested in courting the muslim vote than defending us from the dangerous cancer of islam. Do you know that many (perhaps most) of the taxi drivers in Washington D.C. are muslim? They are all very physically fit, like soldiers.

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