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Why Is Unemployment So High?

March 24, 2011 by  

Why Is Unemployment So High?

Everyone knows that the unemployment situation is very bad, but the official figures (not surprisingly) understate the problem. In this article I’ll outline the severity of the stalled labor market, and explain some of the major causes.

The Employment Outlook

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the official civilian unemployment rate in February was 8.9 percent. However, this figure (called U-3) is very misleading in the present environment because so many potential workers have become discouraged and are no longer seeking work. Just as a retired person, or a stay-at-home parent isn’t normally classified as "unemployed," so too does the BLS exclude these "discouraged workers" from the official count.

John Williams at Shadowstats.com estimates that if we include the short- and long-term discouraged workers, then the actual unemployment rate is currently closer to 22 percent.

To see just how unusual our current predicament is, it’s actually more instructive to look at the level of employment in private industry, because it’s harder to fudge these numbers:

All Employees: Total Private Industries

The above chart shows the total employment among private industries from the late 1930s through the present. Notice that during every recession (gray bar) the line fell, indicating that jobs were shed. But the jobs would usually bounce back during the recovery phase so that, from a distance, the blue line generally rises in a steady fashion.

The last two recessions have changed that standard pattern. The blue line, at a February 2011 level of 108.3 million private-sector jobs, is lower than it was way back in June 1999 at 108.6 million jobs. In the more than 11 intervening years, through immigration and natural growth the (civilian noninstitutional) United States population has increased by 31 million people. And yet we have fewer private-sector jobs in the country now than in mid-1999. Simple inspection of the chart above shows that there hasn’t been a comparable period of stagnant job creation since the late 1930s.

Understanding Unemployment
Before offering some explanations for this disturbing situation we should first clarify what unemployment is. There are different ways of defining the condition, but we can capture the typical understanding by classifying a worker as unemployed when he or she (a) is willing to work at the going wage or salary for some categories of jobs, but (b) can’t find any employer willing to extend the same offer to this particular worker, even though (c) the employer views the worker as interchangeable with other workers already on the payroll.

This last point (c) is important, even though introductory textbooks often omit it. To see why it’s necessary, consider the market for NBA point guards. I would certainly be willing to take the job for the average player’s salary; heck I’d even do it for 10 percent less. But no economist would consider me part of the "supply curve of labor" in this specialized market because the team owners wouldn’t view me as equivalent to other workers on the payroll. My inability to get a job starting at point guard for the Chicago Bulls is not an example of unemployment.

The first point (a) is also relevant. When we say that someone "can’t find a job," we presume that the person is willing to work at the standard or going wage rate at the various jobs for which he’s qualified. If a laid-off guy said, "Man, I can’t get any fast-food restaurants to hire me!" but it turns out he insists on making $200,000 per year, there is a definite sense in which he’s not really unemployed. (Some economists would say he is voluntarily unemployed.)

Unemployment And Time

In introductory textbooks—even my own (see in Lessons for the Young Economist, the section on "Price Floors" in Lesson 17)—economists often give the impression that the labor market is static, where workers know all the relevant job opportunities and employers know everything about the available pool of workers.

But as last year’s Nobel laureates stressed, workers and employers engage in a costly and time-consuming search for each other, in order to best match up their skills and job openings in mutually advantageous relationships.

When an employer hires a worker, it’s (typically) a long-term commitment on both sides. Depending on the job, the employer will spend weeks or even months training the new hire, a period during which the worker may not be "worth" the pay he or she is receiving.

The worker is "locked in" too, and would like to only take a job where he or she thinks "things will work out" at least for a year or longer. Besides the psychological reasons, there is the simple fact that it looks odd on a résumé if a worker seems unable to hold a position for very long.

Because of the long-term nature of the employment contract, employers and workers typically spend a great deal of time researching their various options before closing a deal. Depending on the job, employers conduct a multilayered interview process, and workers may apply for dozens or even hundreds of openings.

In light of these considerations, it’s helpful to think of the labor market as analogous to the housing market, as opposed to (say) the market for apples or gasoline. At any given time, the market price doesn’t "clear" the housing market, because there are always some sellers with their houses still "on the market" waiting to find the right buyer.

A similar situation exists in the labor market. Even during boom periods, the unemployment rate never reaches zero. At any moment, there are always millions of workers in the United States who are in between jobs, either because they quit their previous position hoping to find something better, or because they were "let go" (including cases where the employer went out of business).

In fact, even at the height of our current recession—when unemployment hit an official rate of 10.1 percent in October 2009—there were 3.4 million hires in the private sector. The problem was that there were 3.7 million job "separations" (including quits, layoffs, etc.) in the private sector at the same time. These job-turnover figures should remind us that the aggregate "unemployment rate" hides the incredibly complex flow of workers and other resources across various sectors of the economy.

What makes the current economy so awful, then, is not that there is unemployment, or that there are unsold houses. Rather, things are bleak because it is so unusually difficult for workers to find buyers of their labor services, and for home owners to find buyers of their houses.

Some Reasons For Persistent And High Unemployment
In this final section I’ll run through a list of some of the reasons for the bleak employment outlook. These are not necessarily listed in order of their quantitative importance, but are all probably contributing to the problem:

  • Resources were misallocated during the boom period. In the standard Austrian theory of the business cycle, the boom period leads entrepreneurs to start too many long-term projects, for which there are insufficient real savings. The underlying capital structure of the economy becomes distorted, and it takes time for market forces to clean up the mess after the bubble pops. For certain pockets of the labor force, the "optimal" thing to do is wait it out. (See my "sushi article" for a simple numerical example of how this all can play out.)
  • In some respects this process is what Keynesians interpret as a "fall in aggregate demand," when businesses and consumers come to believe they are on an unsustainable trajectory and slam on the brakes. Of course, only the Austrians recognize that the boom really is unsustainable, whereas the Keynesian efforts to prop up spending only perpetuate the problem and postpone the genuine recovery.
  • The government made low-skilled workers artificially more expensive. In July 2009, the federal minimum wage (due to legislation from 2007) rose from $6.55 to $7.25 per hour. Thus, anyone with productivity worth more than $6.55 but less than $7.25 per hour to an employer was turned into a money-losing proposition when he otherwise would have been profitable to hire.
  • The government made unemployment more financially attractive. By extending unemployment benefits repeatedly, the Federal government has made it easier for job-seekers to maintain unreasonable expectations as they try to find new work.
  • The government is making employee health benefits more expensive by an unknown amount. "Obamacare" is leading to rising health-insurance premiums for employers, but on top of that the total impact is unknown, because of court challenges and Republican promises to reform or even repeal the legislation. Consequently, employers have an incentive to postpone long-term hiring decisions until the issues are resolved.
  • The Fed is making long-term planning far more difficult. Although most analysts think that the Fed’s policies reduce unemployment while possibly risking high price inflation, I submit that the paralysis striking the private sector is partially due to Bernanke’s unprecedented actions. If thousands of business owners are stocking up on canned goods and gold, because they think there is a small but definite possibility that the dollar may crash within a few years, that doesn’t bode well for expanding employment opportunities.

Conclusion

The plight of American workers is bleak, far worse than the official statistics indicate. Once we understand the nature of unemployment, we see that the government and Federal Reserve’s interventions have only made things worse.

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  • pete

    Good article, Mr. Murphy. I’ve been unemployed since 2006. I found out that life goes on ! With or without a job ! My former employer went out of business a few years later. I was making $15/hr and some change (usually 35 hour work week). This month I ran out of money. My IRA is gone (I cashed it in last June because unemployment benefits ended). I continued paying my credit cards (about $650/month) ….

    The most liberating moment to happen at the end of last month is I’m out of money ! If their is no more money, then I can’t pay the bills !
    My wife makes enough to cover our rent and utilities. I’m applying for Food Stamps this month, once I figure out the darn form !

    It’s just amazing. Once a person realizes the realities of the market, it’s a liberating experience ….

    You are right, I wanted to make $28,000/yr like on my last job. But now I’ll settle for $15,000/yr and try to negotiate write offs with my creditors – as in 30 cents or less on the dollar.

    We all are forced to adjust to the market forces …

    What I observe is when the “bill collectors” call on the telephone, they live in another reality. I’m courteous and honest – “The money has run out” is my reply…. it doesn’t register with them…

    I am no longer looking for a job that pays at least $12/hr. Since my credit rating will be ruined in 6 months, I will now settle for a job making minimum wage.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Glad to see you have set your goals so high.

      • pete

        Thanks Mr. Beberoni !

        That part in Mr. Murphy’s article when he says

        “If a laid-off guy said, “Man, I can’t get any fast-food restaurants to hire me!” but it turns out he insists on making $200,000 per year, there is a definite sense in which he’s not really unemployed.”

        Sure hit home. I wanted to large a salary… more than my market value .

        • DaveH

          Good for you, Pete.
          I advised my sister, who was living on credit cards, to get a job, any job, to make ends meet until she could get back on her feet. She answered “I’m not going to work for $10/hr”! By the way, both of her former employees were Government.
          Spoiled.

          • pete

            Mr. DaveH,

            Tell her to marry someone who is rich.

          • Mick

            DaveH says:
            March 24, 2011 at 9:31 am
            Good for you, Pete.
            I advised my sister, who was living on credit cards, to get a job, any job, to make ends meet until she could get back on her feet. She answered “I’m not going to work for $10/hr”! By the way, both of her former employees were Government.
            Spoiled.

            ******************************
            DaveH ,, Sorry to hear that but unfortunately many families are in the same situation, another thing that doesn’t help the situation is other family members enable their siblings, sons and daughters to remain in this frame of mind by giving them money or paying their bills all in the name of helping…How is that call helping ?they just encourage bad behavior, let them eat black bread for awhile they’ll come back to reality…

      • patrick H.T. paine

        “To conquer, first divide.”

        For pete and anyone else dealing with “unrealistic bill collectors:

        1.) First, it will be very difficult for YOU, to attempt to settle
        accounts on your own behalf. For some reason this just doesn’t work,
        so the solution to this is to find some one else in a similar position, and you help each other out, by pretending to be
        “independant credit couselors” for each other…….you can use your
        own name here……calling on behalf of……you should not
        receive too much scrutiny ( it’s about money, after all ) but if
        you need a back story, say you have been doing so and so’s taxes for
        years and were approached to help with this……

        You sell the following story, your client has come up with a small
        unexpected win fall and would like to settle as many of his debts
        as possible, as quickly as possible…….feel free to exaggerate
        the actual debt here……and number of creditor’s in relation to
        the money available……as well as a limited window to act……
        the larger the amount, the smaller the offer should be as a
        percentage……..20 to 40 % is a good range.

        You will need a signed letter, agreeing to partial payment as
        settlement in full, and also stating that credit burreau’s will
        be notified accordingly. Obviously the letter to be sent to YOU
        on your clients behalf.

        It will be easier dealing with the original creditor, so always
        make that your first attempt…….and unless the original creditor
        refers you to the “collection agency”, any settlement will clear the debt.

        All debts for the most part have a limited collection window, 4 to
        7 years, in most states…..after which they have to be written off…

        Never agree to any payment plan or send any payment to anyone….
        because this has the legal effect of restarting the clock on the debt.

        Also, if you have to deal with a collection agency, it might be
        good to check out what kind of deals they are offer for delinquent accounts. Here you get to pretend again, make up a business, and
        call…….make up a number of deliquent accounts, in various stages
        and ask for a bid……also ask for references, other businesses
        they have as clients……they will all be in the same ball park,
        so you will have an idea, what to offer as a settlement amount.

        Remember the clock is ticking for everyone here……be creative
        and have fun…..you will learn a lot.

        Finally, if you see this coming…….try not to run up to the
        edge…….make your cash disappear, and stop making payments
        sooner………to all non essential creditors…..Good Luck!

        • Pete

          Thanks for the advice ! You are a “Professor” !

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Pete… I know your pain, but in a different way. Our money ‘ran out’, too. It wasn’t from unemployment, but because we couldn’t sell the home we had moved from. We rented it and they wanted to buy, but the bank wouldn’t lend to our renters. If we could have sold it for fair market value, we could have paid our debts and went on. It didn’t happen. But, as you say, life goes on….

    • soldier

      Time to join a militia, grow your own food, and prepare for another Waco or Ruby Ridge. We have to take back control of our government and end free trade.

      • JR

        You are living in a dream world if you believe its is that easy.
        Nowadays, anyone doing that will be declared a domestic terrorist and will end up either death or end up in some prison hole never to be seen for a long time. Remember that under terrorism rules they can hold you and not even a lawyer can see you. Good luck to you if you believe an armed uprising has any even remote chance of success.Times have hanged and people that call for a second revolution or armed uprising are delusional and have no grasp on reality.

        • Al Sieber

          JR says,”People that call for a second revolution or a armed uprising are delusional and have no grasp on reality”, I’m glad the founding fathers weren’t like that. everybody isn’t gonna bend over and take it like you will.

          • Eddie47d

            AL; How would this Revolution effect unemployment?I would say it would bring less work so soldier wants to create a bigger problem.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Eddie:

            By the time it gets to the point that Soldier is referencing unemployment will be the least of our worries.

            As a matter of fact Obama’s ruinous economics may bring unemployment to levels that might trigger an uprising.

          • Robert S

            I wonder what JR’s solution is. I’d like to know.

          • Al Sieber

            eddie, what I meant was we’re running out of options, when people get hungry they get desperate and anything can happen. ever been hungry?

          • Al Sieber

            Also eddie, when people are unemployed they can’t provide for their families, thats what revolutions have to do with unemployment.

          • JIBBS

            eddie was a unionhead, he knows not of hunger.

          • Eddie47d

            As I said a revolution would create chaos and businesses would be closed down and there would be more unemployment. It wasn’t a hunger issue with my statement and yes I have been hungry.

        • DaveH

          While I agree with you, JR, that violent revolution is not the answer, I don’t agree that it is delusional. There are uprisings going on around the world, and many of them have been somewhat successful. It just depends on how bad things get.
          Is it too much for you Liberals to just state your piece without resorting to personal attacks?

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            DaveH:

            You are right on the money. And we must remember that the participants in those revolutions, both successful and not so, do not have the advantage of essentially being armed to the teeth as the American public is.

          • Eddie47d

            Dave H. You are so full of it. You personally did at least 6 name callings at me yesterday. I guess I should say those Libertarians can’t rebuttal without being mean and nasty.

          • DaveH

            You are full of it, Eddie. Show me a single incident where I called anybody a name without provocation. If you personally attack me or others without provocation, I reserve the right to treat you disrespectfully also.
            If you want to use personal attacks, and other forms of manipulation in your comments, Eddie, then expect the same from me. If you bring a knife to the fight, I will bring a knife to the fight.

          • Eddie47d

            Once again you are full of it for you made remarks to me not the other way around.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Soldier did not say it would be easy. It never is. He brought back the memory of Waco and Ruby Ridge to remind us of what will take palce.

          You sound much like I am sure the King of England did in the mie 1700s. I am sure Soldier does not desire a revolution, but it sounds to me lke he is a realist and can see it coming.

          If one must go out, do so with a roar, not a whimper. The Jews in Nazi Germany whimpered and we all know the result.

          • Bus

            If a revolution did break out could we count on China and Britain establishing a “no-fly zone” over the country so that the militia groups would have a chance? Or would the military side with the revolutionaries?

          • Patty

            Russ – England would side with us. They dislike Nobama as much as we do. He sold us to China. Wouldn’t expect much there. :)

          • JeffH

            Patty, I think I’ll have to take issue with you on England’s support.

            Just a reminder that it was England that was defeated by the new United States with Geo W and his merry band of colonist rebels in 1777 and again a kind of “second war of independence” against Britain in the War of 1812? I’m quite sure that the King or Queen still harbor thoughts that we have never been free from the British Crown.

            The real Principal, the “King/Queen of England”, still rules this country through the House of Rothschilds and the Bank of England and believe we own no property in allodium. England is really ruled by a monarchy. “In monarchical governments, by subject is meant one who owes permanent allegiance to the monarch.” (Bouvier’s Law Dictionary)

            I think there is room for some thought on this.

          • Patty

            Jeff H – We are talking about revolution and ousting Nobama. I stand by what I said. England does not want him in office as much as we don’t. He has been a complete embarrassment when it comes to England, his visits to England. His disdain for England that comes through loud and clear goes back to Englands occupation of Africa.

      • pete

        You go ahead and join a militia, I’m staying home because I’m a lover, not a fighter !! Someone has to keep all the women happy …

        • http://?? Joe H.

          ete,
          what excuse will you use when even the ladies join up???

          • Patty

            Joe H- No kidding. Pete is a couple of double D batteries away from being completely replaced.

      • DaveH

        Free Trade isn’t your problem, Soldier. Your problem is Big Government meddling in the marketplace and sucking the life out of our economy with their Spending of 40% of our Gross Domestic Product.

        If you think Protectionism will solve our problems please read this free online book by Murray Rothbard and learn how Government creates the problems, not solves them:
        http://mises.org/rothbard/agd.pdf

        • Richard

          There you go with your poorly written and historical fact lacking book again.
          It would be idiotic for Americans to create jobs that cannot compete with child and slave labor of free trade partners since they would quickly go bankrupt. America’s greatest strides were completely due to protecting the markets. Like the 1950s when we recovered from many years of bad economic climate from depression and war. Protectionism or decline in the standard of living (just as is happening), no way around it. We export much of nothing. The NAFTA supporters try to say we do, but is mostly all car parts – that come back here in the cars that should be built here. The round trip doesn’t count – +1 export -1 import. +1 and -1 = ZERO.

          • DaveH

            There you go with your Liberal, unsupported and fabricated facts again, Richard.
            Conjecture doesn’t cut it here. Present your rebuttal, if you can.
            Any normal Liberal can say “poorly written book”.

          • DaveH

            And I sure do get tired of hearing about Foreign “Slave Labor”. It’s so easy to make up BS, instead of actually presenting facts.
            To be a slave, you must be forced by another man (or woman) to do something you don’t want to do. I haven’t seen any evidence of that, just Liberal conjecture.
            On the other hand, you same Liberals are seeking to forcefully take our money away, take our health care choices away, and take our energy choices away using Government as your instrument of force. In other words — enslave us.
            You people are colossal hypocrites.

          • Richard

            “Liberal” “Liberal” “Liberal”
            You don’t even know what the hell a liberal is.
            http://www.conservativeusa.org/redchina.htm
            There are plenty of supposed conservatives that support slave labor though. I remember not long ago the supposed Christian conservative Tom Delay defending he slave labor, forced prostitution, and forced abortions of Saipan in Congress. Saipan another job stealer.
            Conjecture’s Ass. Learn something big boy.
            As far as the crappy book goes – the real reasons for the Great Depression are known fact – J.P. Morgan and associates (today’s Fed) spread false rumors about bank failures, and then when a panic ensued they called all margin accounts at once. Then they bought up all the banks and industry they wanted.
            So tell the many millions that are unemployed how good free trade is. Millions of jobs gone one reason – free trade.

          • Richard

            The largest segment of the officially unemployed? people over 50. Why? Outsourced. Why? Free trade. Unofficial? College grads that are not counted because they haven’t had a job and can’t find one. Which is the reason the Libs went for making insurance stay with them to age 26 – parents going broke because their kids can’t get a job or one with benefits if they do.
            Next largest? Industry shut down. Why? Either outsourced or put out of business by free trade.
            Next largest and not counted? Self-employed. Why? Their work depended on the now unemployed hiring them to fix their roof or build a deck or……

          • DaveH

            Sure I know what a Liberal is — A manipulative controlling thief who deludes ignorant citizens with sweet-sounding lies and uses Big Government to force his way on citizens who wouldn’t voluntarily accept his policies.

          • DaveH

            Richard says:
            “the real reasons for the Great Depression are known fact – J.P. Morgan and associates (today’s Fed) spread false rumors about bank failures, and then when a panic ensued they called all margin accounts at once. Then they bought up all the banks and industry they wanted.”
            That is about as simplistic a load of cow dung that I have ever seen anybody post. I assume you have proof of such accusations, Richard, that no courts have ever been exposed to?

          • DaveH

            Free trade caused all this? Because you say so, Richard? So far your arguments have been shallow and unconvincing.
            We had free trade over 100 years ago and our country didn’t collapse. Why is that? Australia and New Zealand have much freer economies than the US. They haven’t collapsed. Why is that?
            Explain to us please how somebody selling us their goods at much cheaper prices than we can buy products here is bad for us? In fact, we are taking advantage of them. We should be ashamed of ourselves.
            If we didn’t have Free Trade 40 years ago, we would be taking out 30 year mortgages right now to buy a car. And the Unionists would be flaunting their wealth. There would have been no competition to stop their gouging of the American public.
            In any situation guaranteed monopolies result in higher prices.
            Thanks to Ignoramuses like yourself, Richard, we now have Government spending almost half of our salaries. Talk about slave labor — over 140 days a year of our life is spent working for Government.
            But of course, we should just sit idly by and say nothing, so that people like you can have better lives at our expense.

          • Richard

            We didn’t have trade 40 years ago Dave. Your point is outright wrong.
            The economy was good then and protected.
            Yes we should be ashamed of buying cheaper foreign goods that put Americans out of work. I agree.
            Australia’s economy is a service economy.
            Our economy has turned into a service economy.
            A fact about service economies: they have to service a larger economy to survive. Australia can do that for now but we can’t. Our service sector used to have a larger economy to service – manufacturing.
            But, Australia is running a large growing current account deficit, which is bad in the end. And their manufacturing is in decline (sound familiar?).
            New Zealand only has agriculture and tourism. Their debt has increased 150% in the last 10 years.
            A protected free market (like we had 20 years ago) has no limits on entrepreneurship, your monopoly comments are ridiculous.
            I can’t help it if you are uneducated on the historical fact of the causes of the Great Depression. Or a good economy for that matter.
            Maybe when you grow up.

          • Richard

            I see I left out the word free in my first sentence last night. We didn’t have free trade 40 years ago..
            Just seeing the reports of auto making slow downs from parts shortages. Parts from Japan.
            Our Founding Fathers had it right when they set up tariffs to ensure self sufficiency. But they had learned their lesson Dave, having to depend on France for muskets to fight the Revolutionary War.
            Allowing this being dependent on other nations is as idiotic as allowing people to ride welfare. It robs the masses.

          • JIBBS

            If they make .10cents per hour, they are not slaves. But on the other hand, people who are self employed are not included in the unemployment rate either. What about the under employed? What about those who are out of unemployment funds, they are not included. I’d have to say, unemployment may be higher than 22%.

    • Tony

      If you’re looking for a job that pays under $12 an hour and you can’t find one, you simply aren’t looking hard enough, and must just be waiting on your food stamp bailout from the government. Get off the Lazy Boy, you haven’t had a job in 5 years, and you’ve milked the government teet as much as you could in that time period. Pathetic.

      • momplayer

        You try getting a job in Las Vegas and then get back to me. Their saying there will be another 4000 laid off by June 1st and that is just the public sector.They never give any info about the private sector other than the closing of the Sahara casino laying off over 1000. I concede there are alot that ride the unemployment benefits bandwagon,but you can’t really believe that everyone is happy to try and live on $400.00 per week,losing homes,cars and just about everything they have worked for.

        • DaveH

          Mom,
          I think a large number of people are boycotting Vegas due to the re-election of Harry Reid. The realities of politics.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          momplayer:

          Maybe you geniuses should elect Dingy Harry mayor, and govenor!

          • momplayer

            I think we aleady elected his brother for governor. As for mayor it looks like our choices this time will be dumb-dumber and dumbest. I think Nevadas new state motto should be “YOU CAN’T FIX STUPID”

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Momplayer:

            I think you are right. Maybe the problem is that you are too close to Mexifornia….

          • Patty

            Brian Sandoval is your governor.

        • Carol

          I could live easily on $400 a week. I live on $765 a month. Try that. Get a job? I’ve been trying since my Mother died in 1998. I’d been taking care of her since ’92. Most of the jobs I applied for turned me down because I couldn’t supply proof of what I did from 1992 to 1998. The ones that didn’t ask that just told me I was “overqualified”. The biggest lie going as an excuse not to hire someone my age. There’s no such thing as being overqualified for any job. Fast food or any job requiring me to be on my feet all day is impossible. I can’t stand up for more than 30 minutes at a time. I don’t get food stamps, I don’t get welfare, and Medicare takes 96.40 each month and pays only 20% of my doctors fees. I have the bill from the doctor right here in front of me to prove it. So I don’t want to hear that you can’t live on $400 a week.

          • Tony

            Just curious but where does the $765 come from if you don’t have a job, don’t collect welfare, or don’t collect food stamps? And why can’t you stand on your feet for more than 30 minutes, again, curious?

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Tony:

            Since she is on Medicare I would assume she is getting Social Security as well.

            She may have arthritis in her feet, knees, hips, back, or all of the above. I have a sister in her early 50s and has had arthritis in her feet for almost 10 years. It’s miserable. I have it in one knee and I think it is beginning in my lower back.

          • JeffH

            Old Henry, you used good and simple reasoning to come up with your answer.

          • momplayer

            I guess $400.00 per week sounds like alot to you,but I didn’t mention my daughter is a single mother of 2 (doesn’t get child support since dads unemployed. Doesn’t get food stamps, can’t afford medical insurance so no one pays even 20%.(she’d be glad to only have to pay $80.00 for a doctor instead of $100.00 ($20.00 would buy milk for a few days or put alittle gas in the car to look for a job.Her house payment is $500.00-Her car insurance (liability only) is $100.00 per month,untilities (gas,lights,water and phone is $200.00 per month,groceries for 3 people runs about $400.00 per month (including school lunches)She has fed. taxes taken out $200.00 per month-her phone runs he $30.00 per month leaving her $170.00 per month for doctors(average office call $100.00),gas $3.65 per gallon) to look for a job,any repairs to cars(alot because her car has 150,000 miles(didn’t know a Hyundia Accent would last that long)house repairs,school supplies,clothing and shoes for the kids.So if you think $400.00 per week is a livable wage it’s not and my daughter would take any job that she could find because she knows that unemployment is only for a short period of time and once thats gone it is GONE.

          • Tony

            All this talk within this thread about how people can’t find minimum wage jobs and all this entitlment talk is a nightmare. I can’t tell you how many low wage jobs I got in college to pay for my rent, food, utilities, etc. It was the easiest thing I ever had to do. Walk down the street, and apply for a job…real hard….did the same thing in high school. So many people seem to be accustomed to these handouts that it sounds like a way of life to most…what’s unemployment up to now, 3 years…just another form of welfare….IT’S SICK. I’m only 27….I’m the one who should be whining about my school loans and high bills!!! GET OFF THE COUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            momplayer:

            Don’t you have a county health clinic in your area? I do not live in NV, but we have a town near by where unemployed / low income folks can get medical / dental. It’s not free, but very inexpensive.

            Also, some doctors donate their time at free health care clinics in our area.

            Do you, your daughter, or a friend know someone who works on cars in their spare time, or as a hobby? You can get work done that way at VERY reasonable prices. I have saved a BUNDLE that way over the last 30 years.

            You can also get the kids shoes on eBay aucitons at usually very reasonable prices. You just have to shop around different auctions.

            Do you have any food pantries in your area? Your daughter might be able to get some help there. Salvation Army perhaps?

            I don’t have any ideas on school supplies, but I would call the school district office and query them.

          • Pete

            Tony,

            Let me give you some advice ! You’re in your late 20′s… Listen very carefully !

            MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND RETIRE AS EARLY AS YOU CAN !!!!

            99% of Everything else is just BULL S… !!!!

            I say 99% because there are certain questions you have to answer in your life such as “Where am I going to spend eternity after I die” – stuff like that- that is more important …That’s the 1% exception to my advice.

            Tony – take my advice….. Don’t end up like me, pushing 50, broke, in bad health. I should have pushed myself back in my 20′s !!

          • Patty

            Old Henry-Start on Glucosamine. Works wonders.

          • Karolyn

            I can certainly identify with you Carol. I couldn’t find a job for 5 years. I existed on selling at a flea market and on ebay until I started getting my SS at 62 two years ago, which is $700 per month. I have a job now that may not go beyond the end of July, but I am living high on the hog with $1600 coming in each month! I was on Food Stamps, and the state of SC paid my rent for 2 months prior to my SS starting. I am very healthy (other than bad hips), for which I am very grateful. Here we have a medical office that charges on a sliding scale, which I believe should be copied across the country. It is nonprofit. They just started their own pharmacy and also a mobile dentistry unit for kids.

          • Karolyn

            Tony – Figures! You’re just a baby. It’s easy for you, especially being a man. You try beibng a 64 year old woman in rural SC!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            momplayer,
            how many accidents has your daughter had?? I insure three cars on less than that and two of them are full coverage with 250 deductable. The two on full coverage are a 2008 accent and a 2005 town and country van!

          • Thamera

            There are health clinics everywhere so if your daughter is going to a regular doctor I would ask why? I’ve lived without health insurance off and on now for 20 years. Even learned to stitch up my own kids instead of rush to the doctor. There wasn’t a lot that I couldn’t do. I had to learn because I couldn’t afford to go to the doctor. Lost a tooth because I couldn’t afford a root canal (thank heavens it was way in the back) and have made monthly installments to the orthodontist for 6 years now so that my children could get their orthodontia work done. Just get the last 3 paid off and now child #4 needs braces as well. Husband now just lost his job, going on 8 months. I am the soul wage earner and am able to just get by on $2100.00 a month after taxes. Am driving a 1997 Nissan Sentra to boot. Ideal? No, but I can’t complain and I have a very low tolerance for people that do.

          • Patty

            Tony – not sure how old you are, but it is difficult for people who have had a long career to find a job without hearing “over qualified”. You may be young enough that you don’t have the experience of the under 60 over 40 generation. To old to get a career job, not old enough to be a Walmart greeter.

        • Carol

          You didn’t say it was your daughter and her children trying to live on $400 a week. I’m surprised she gets that much in Nevada. I would suggest she get out of Nevada if she can. Women are not treated well there, and don’t apply to the state for anything. My son was 2 years old when I asked to have his heart checked after a murmur was found. I was immediately told that if I couldn’t take care of him on my then take home pay of $69 a week they would place him in foster care and then take $60 of my $69 for his care. This was in Reno, not Vegas. I then got a 2nd job working 3 nights a week in a casino. They then told me he would be taken from me if I didn’t spend more time taking care of him. I finally just packed up and moved back to Calif. Your daughter would be better off somewhere else, but not California either.

      • DaveH

        Don’t be so hard on Pete, Tony. I estimate from personal experience that most unemployed people milk the system to the end. It’s just human nature to seek the path of least resistance.
        Why do they suck the teet? Because it’s there.
        The problem lies not with people like Pete, but with the people who set up the safety nets in the first place. Without them, you can bet that people would make a lot more effort not to get fired in the first place, and, once-fired, to seek employment much more vigorously.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          DaveH:

          I do not think you should use the phrase “hard on Pete”. Remember, he is the one who will stay home and “Keep the women happy”. I wonder if Petie is of French decsnt….

          • DaveH

            I don’t blame the people who partake of the system, Henry. I blame the people who create the system.

        • Cawmun Cents

          I rather like to think that it comes from people sending American Jobs overseas to make more profit.Yes,strangle the small guys ability to take care of himself necessitating a big brother to take care of you.Hmmmm….seems as if I have read that story some time ago.All those who think that the government is too powerful to overcome are the ones who are delusional.God can overcome any obstacle you throw in His path.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Cawmun Cents:

            YOu are right on. The King of England found tht out in the 1700s.

      • Karolyn

        Tony – You try finding a job in Podunk, SC! hahahahahah. That’s a joke!

      • JIBBS

        Tony, you must know nothing of the world outside your home, you need to do a little research. You should see what things are like rural area’s, which is what most of America is.

    • rawdibob

      Pete:

      What have YOU done to improve YOUR skill set to make YOURSELF more attractive to a new employer?

      • pete

        Mr Rawhide Bob,

        Very good advice. The market price of the local private tech school is $10,000 plus to start ! The public schools aren’t much cheaper and very inflexible with their hours.

        Higher educational prices are totally unrealistic. You got to go with the market – buy low, sell high ! Most of these technical school grads get a job for $10/hr after they graduate. Many of them borrowed 15,000 to 20,000 dollars in guaranteed student loans . That’s like buying high and selling low (without an option and no stop gap !)..

        Guaranteed Student loans cannot be discharged in Bankruptcy … These type of loans are a form of slavery.

        I had $18,000 in college loans until 2005 ! A credit card company offered a lower rate for a balance transfer ! I was paying 9% to Sallie Mae, they offered 8%. I took them up on it and got my student loans paid off ….

        Now I’ve been paying on that credit card for the past 6 years, and the interest rate has gone up, up, up ! But the good thing about it is it’s a dischargeable debt (in Bankruptcy).

        You see, you got to go with the market ! Don’t be a socialist, capitalism works ….

        • DaveH

          The Internet can (and probably will) revolutionize education. There will be immense resistance from the teachers and others in the current educational system who stand to lose their livelyhoods. It is our task to see that they aren’t successful.
          The main cause of all our economic turmoil is Big Government. In 1950 Government at all levels spent 20% of our GDP (still too much), but now they spend 40% of our GDP. They not only spend a Lion’s share of our Financial resources, but they also get in the way of the producers and stifle productivity. A double whammy.
          Think we need to spend even 20% on Government? Think again. Hong Kong spends just 19% of its GDP on Government and has a robust economy. They are much more heavily populated than our most densely populated state (New Jersey). And their natural resources are miniscule compared to those of the United States.
          http://heritage.org/index/Country/HongKong

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            DavH:

            “There will be immense resistance from the teachers”.

            And these people are SEIUers. Guess who now has an internet “kill switch”?

          • Eddie47d

            Old Henry; Egypt and China. In China if you use one word that is not government approved they shut your phone service off.

        • Carol

          In 1986 my brother signed up for a business course at an accredit business school. He applied for a $5000 student loan through the school. He was then informed he had been turned down, so he did the pay as you go bit. He’d get there for his classes, and the teacher didn’t show up. I had to start waiting to see if he was going to stay each evening. Then in 1996 he received a letter saying his income tax refunds would be taken to repay his student loan. You know, the one he didn’t get. And by that time, the school no longer existed. He has now received no refund since 1997 and is paying $100 a month on top of that. The gov’t has taken over $20,000 from him for $5000 he never got.

        • Carlucci

          Pete – The credit card companies are the ones responsible for the changes in the bankruptcy laws. It is no longer as easy as it used to be to declare a total liquidation, like Chapter 7. A friend of mine is going through this now, and wishes he would have done his homework before he started the bankruptcy. Even if he decides not to go through with it, a bankruptcy will still show on his credit report.

          • Patty

            As well it should. I know more than one who filed for bankruptcy and went out and maxed out their credit cards. We all have to pay for that.

        • barbm

          if youre broke, the pell grant is free and gives lots more money than it costs for tuition and books. my son has about $2000 left because he registers early enough to buy his books on line. the other son works 2 jobs so only gets $25 from the pell. that’s not a typo. if you work you get screwed. your credit card interest rate has gone up, up, up because you’ve been paying the minimum allowed and/or have missed payments or paid late. my nephew has the same card i do. his rate is nearly 25%!! mine is 10%. i never pay the minimum. had you taken a job earlier, you might not be in this position. bankruptcy drives costs up for the rest of us who do work. good job. NOT!!

          • Pete

            Back when I was attending business school, the professor told us that a loan is an investment, you take a risk….

            Credit Cards are an investment – you take a risk – sometimes it just doesn’t work out …

          • Thamera

            credit cards are definitely NOT an investment. I have heard that rubbish before and it is pure nonsense and the 30 year mortgage was one of the most brilliant money makers ever invented. You should stay away from both. There is absolutely no reason to pay on a house for 30 years. Wish I had realized that concept a lot earlier! Maybe you should check out Dave Ramsey.

          • Patty

            Thamara- So true. People are so backwards thinking that way on mortgages. I remember it took me 2 years to convince my husband to go from a 30 to a 15. His “logic” was that we needed the mortgage interest tax deduction. I kept explaining to him that instead of paying 12k per year in interest, we could just pay the 6k in taxes and have 6k left to take a trip someplace nice. People are just too easily manipulate. PS he was also a gov’t. worker.

        • Patty

          Pete – You obviously have credit. Get one of those zero interest for a year and pay the 3% transfer fee. That is a lot cheaper than 8%. Then keep transfering it to zero % cards. Paid off my car that way. Worked great. Going to do the same with my motorcycle. Next, the house. Debt free in 5 years. Now….if I can only afford my property taxes….

          • Patty

            Pete- I may have missed how much education you already have. So, I will just throw this out there. Is your career being a student?

        • Karolyn

          Pete – You can get a Pell Grant and go back to school.

      • Cawmun Cents

        Nothing….he is at your house having sex with your wife and having a sandwich on your dime……the new American Job is no longer a secret.

    • Carlucci

      Pete – Stop answering the bill collector calls. Under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, if the calls are coming from collection agencies, that is third party debt collection. Third party debt collection means that your creditor SOLD your debt to a private collection agency. Once that happened, the contract you had with the bank or credit card company ended. The collection industry commits fraud by making you believe that they are working on behalf of the bank or credit card company.

      If you see a disclaimer on letters from these collectors that say something like the following, you know that your debt has been sold
      and a third party debt collector (collection agency or attorney) has
      purchased the debt.

      NOTICE OF RIGHT TO DEBT VALIDATION
      Unless you, within 30 days after receipt of this notice, dispute the validity of the debt, or any portion thereof, we will assume the debt to be valid. If you notify this firm in writing within the 30 day period, that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, our firm will obtain verification and mail a verification to you. Upon your written request within the 30 day period, our firm will also provide you with the name and address of the original creditor, if different from the current creditor. This is a communication from a debt collector. This communication is an attempt to collect a debt and information obtained from this communication will be used for that purpose.

      I’ve worked on both sides of the debt collection industry and am in the middle of writing an ebook on this very topic. There are letters in the book you can use to make the calls stop. I don’t have a website or link to it yet, and I don’t know how to exchange private info on this blog. If the webmaster can help, let me know.

      • pete

        Mr. Carlucci,

        I could always move, that’s what people did in the 1930′s …

        • Carlucci

          That’s true, too. But you don’t have to answer collection calls…

          • Carlucci

            P.S. I’m a girl, not a “Mr.” LOL – !!

          • DaveH

            Carlucci,
            Please don’t encourage people to be deadbeats. There are enough incentives already towards that condition.

          • Carlucci

            DaveH – You simply do not understand. I am not encouraging anyone to be a deadbeat. I’m stating facts that I know regarding the collection industry, because I have experience working in debt collection and debt elimination. Like most things going on in this nation, debt collection for the most part is a scam perpetrated on an ignorant and unsuspecting public.

            Just like the current scams that are perpetrated by Fedzilla on the American people, the banks and credit card companies have yet another scam going where they sell debt. But before they do that, they file an insurance claim on the debt, as every credit card account in America is insured. So, not only do they collect the insurance on the amount owed, they sell the debt and make ancillary income off of that as well. The collection agency then commits fraud by attempting to make the debtor believe that the agency is acting on behalf of the original creditor.

            You must have missed the news stories on the mortgage/foreclosure scam, which is similar. These stories even made it to the national “news” outlets like CBS, ABC, etc. I will see if I can find a link.

            I would never tell anyone not to pay their bills, but people must know what goes on behind the scenes. Knowledge is power.

          • barbm

            according to the texas attorney general, if the company trying to collect a debt cannot provide you with papers showing you signed for those debts, you don’t have to pay them, and they must cease and desist with collection efforts. if it’s a 3rd party that has purchased your debt, chances are slim to none that the original company provided them with your signed credit slips. when my mother was dying, i coudn’t work as she had to have 24/7 care. i notified all my creditors that it would be a while before i could pay. a 3rd party from delaware, where they have no restrictions on debt collection, called me 3 times a day every day. i told them if they didn’t stop, i’d go to hell before i’d ever pay them because my mom cried every time they called. she was dying and blamed herself for my credit being ruined. when i got my van repaired and sold, i paid off everybody else i owed, none of which ever contacted me again after being informed of my mother’s imminent death. to this day, i have not and will not pay the one that caused my mom so much stress on her death bed. that’s how i know about the credit slips. they called and threatened to ruin my credit if i didn’t pay. i called the atty gen’s office, told them what i was told, and never got another call.

          • DaveH

            Carlucci,
            I’m not attacking you. I just believe that if you borrow money, you should pay it back if you can. The companies (as you know) sell their debt to the collection agencies, who hope to be able to collect on it. The original lenders just don’t want to deal with collecting the debt, but that doesn’t mean the borrowers should be let off the hook.

          • Pete

            Miss Carlucci,

            Thanks for all the great advice ! They insure the debt !! Yahoo!!! This is getting more interesting.

            Kind of like them insurance policies employers take out on their workers. Instead of giving the worker a pay raise or promotion – they work him/her to, literally, DEATH ! Then after the excess stress/work kills the worker, the employer cashes in the policy and makes a tidy PROFIT ! OH YEAH !!

            Amazing, and I always wondered why I never got promoted on my last job ….

          • Carlucci

            DaveH – “The original lenders just don’t want to deal with collecting the debt, but that doesn’t mean the borrowers should be let off the hook”.

            Typically, the original lender (bank or credit card company) will try to collect on a “non-peforming” account for about 90 to 120 days through their own in-house collectors. When that fails, they sell the debt to a private collection agency or law firm. This is after the bank or credit card company files a claim and collects on insurance as I’ve already explained. So, they not only get their money back (the amount owed on the card), they make extra income when they sell the debt. The original lender really does not care if they collect the debt or not through their in-house collectors, as they know they’ll get the money back anyway from the insurance. They then charge it off on their books and sell the debt to a collection agency or attorney/law firm for about six cents on the dollar.

            Since installment contracts, such as credit card contracts, are not negotiable instruments and cannot be sold for value under holder-in-due-course theories of law, what ever debt had inured is extinguished along with the contract itself when sold. The borrower is off the hook the minute the debt is sold to a private collection agency, because the contract he had with the bank or credit card company does not exist anymore once the debt is sold.

            I agree with you – people should most definitely pay their bills. Unfortunately in the current economic climate, people are either under-employed or unemployed and have to decide between paying for food and utilities or their credit cards. Ask anyone on this list. If they had to make this decision, I’m sure they would opt for the food and utilities.

          • DaveH

            Well then, we should all just default on our debts, since nobody gets hurt and the banks and collection agencies still make money. I’m being facetious, Carlucci.
            Who pays for the Insurance? Now if you were to tell me that the Federal Reserve creates new money to rebalance the Bank’s Balance Sheet or the Insurer’s Balance Sheet, I might find that plausible. But even in that case, somebody is paying the bill (the cash holders whose money is devaluing). There is no free lunch.

          • Patty

            Carlucci – I am not so sure I can agree with Pete’s problem. My son went through college (5-6 years) with NO loans. He worked at a bar Fri, Sat, Sun (until football came on)paid his entire college bill with no loans. Whenever I asked him if he needed any help every semester he would say, “nope, got it covered”. He also shared an apt. off campus with a friend. When he graduated, he was debt free with money in the bank which he bought a house with that. His friends all had bad credit and their parents had 2nd mortgages. His attitude was, anyone can afford college if they really want to, they just make excuses and want someone else to foot the bill. He has been graduated now for 6 years. I don’t think it has changed that much since.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        Carlucci:

        Go to http://www.komando.com

        She has several techie news letters I receive each day. A week or two ago she had either a Cool Site, or a Free Download that would set you up with a third party service. You post their phone number, say on an eBay auctiion, people call that number and the service hooks them up with you.

        You can search Kim’s site for the link. Hope it can help you.

        • Carlucci

          Thanks, Old Henry! I will check it out. I’m also looking at Blurb.com and another site I can’t think of right off the bat.

          • Carlucci

            barbm – Thank you for backing me up on this credit card issue. I live in Texas, too. When they cannot produce a contract, the contract is null and void. The same thing is happening now on mortgages.

            Check this out: http://www.consumerdefenseprograms.com

          • barbm

            please bear in mind that i paid off everybody except the unscrupulous one. i begged them month after month to stop and told them what it was doing to my mother. i promised to pay as soon as i could if they’d just stop. they wouldn’t. it’s not that i think it’s okay to not pay your bills, i just think collection agencies should have some compassion. when your mother has brain cancer with no hope of surviving it and a company behaves as they did, they deserve freakin’ nothing. i even offered to send them a letter from the doctor, but they said they didn’t care about my personal problems.

      • Carlucci

        DaveH, I would guess that the bank buys the insurance on the credit card accounts.

        I do know that the criminals on Wall Street bought a bunch of credit card debts also.

        • Patty

          Carlucci-I use to get calls from my credit card company to buy insurance if I could not pay my bill. I told them if they want to pay for it, they can purchase the insurance and that if I died, guess what, you are out.

      • Carol

        My poor brother. This happened to him, and he fixed them good. They said they were collecting a debt he owed to the victim of an accident he caused. and they had his driver’s license #. It wasn’t his, and they asked what his was so he made one up. Sure enough, he received another dun from the group with the made up #. They told him he was in trouble for giving them a false # and he told them they were in trouble for committing fraud. Also, he was living 1,200 miles away from where the accident happened. He never heard from them again, but he is now unable to get his driver’s license because of this.

    • RW

      Yes, I think you said it all. You were working at a salary that was satisfactory to you, your wife earns enough to pay the rent and utilities, and you chose to live beyond your means anyway…spending enough to rack up a credit card payment of $650.00 per month. We all do it. We certainly can’t complain about consequences when we choose the behavior. When will we see that all the “stuff” does not make us happier! It only makes for stressful living. You are now experiencing the “Ah” of relief that you no longer have to keep up the pretenses. Now, it remains on you to move forward in truth and don’t fall prey to the “lie” a second time. There is pride in any job that is well done and provides for your needs.

      • Pete

        RW,

        What I learn is only borrow money to make money ! Limit your personal liability by having your own corporations. Do all your business in your corporate names. Make sure the accounting/bookkeeping is accurate.

        But the bottom line is get a paycheck from your corporations and never, never,never comingle assets and liabilities !!!!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        RW,
        Please don’t say we all! I’ve had three credit cards for over 35 years and I’ve never ran a balance on them. I don’t intend to pay any interest to, in essence use my own money!! My cards are paid off in full each and every month!!

    • Void1972

      Pete,
      Don’t worry about a thing! The Dollar will be valueless very soon, so the less you have, the less you have to lose!
      Try to stock pile canned foods and save your empty water bottles so you can refill them in the comming crisis. Food items will be more valuable then gold.
      Buy any guns and as much ammo as you can store, for these will be your buying power and your protection from those who will do you and yours harm!
      Keep your faith in God no matter how terrible things become, and you will get through it!
      God Bless America, and those who fight for her!!!!

    • Bob G

      Pete:
      Been there, done that, back during the Carter administration. Took me many, many years to get my life back. Suffered a divorce because of it all. Here I am again 3 decades later looking at the same road again. I’m better off financially now but Barry isn’t helping matters any. Good Luck buddy.

  • s c

    Unemployment, like most topics, is affected by everything Uncle Scam does and everything he doesn’t do. Uncle Scam pretends to care, but since he decided to adopt and protect union members (and dump on everyone else), his “compassion” can be
    seen for what it is.
    Media whores wage a daily war to manipulate truth and try to make a rotting pig’s corpse (the current administration) look like it’s young and dynamic. In the process, Americans are forced to sift and sort everything they see and hear or surrender to
    routine assaults on their dwindling constitutional freedoms. It’s not enough to profess membership in this political fraternity or that. Members who give a damn about America are obligated to have higher personal standards than the scum they send to Washington.
    Admit it, people. High unemployment is a means to an end for those who sell their arses and their souls. The system is ‘rigged,’ and either Americans take back their country, or we will have to live with the fact that freedom is just a word and slavery will soon be THE new reality.

    • DavidL

      “Where free unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost.”

      Ronald Reagan
      September 1, 1980

      • DaveH

        Having been President of the Screen Actors Guild, he was just a wee bit biased.
        Freedom would dictate that people can join any group they want. But Freedom does not mean that they can take other peoples’ Freedom away with picket lines, riots, harassment of replacement workers, and harassment of customers.

        • Patty

          Dave H-Reagan was not talking about gov’t. unions that have a monoply.

    • Eddie47d

      The same people (you SC) who says government can’t create jobs are the ones blaming government.Surprise! Surprise!

      • Dorothy Jones

        Government can not create jobs except within government; just as government does not invest.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Ah Dorothy, but the guvment does invest….. our money in the chilen….. and SEIU goons.

      • DaveH

        Of course Government can create jobs, Eddie. The question is “are they productive jobs?”. Do they, in net, produce wealth? That is do they produce competitive products and services? The answer to that is almost always NO.
        Government is a consumer of wealth, not a producer of wealth.

        • DaveH

          In fact, Eddie, I challenge you to name me one field in which the Government is more productive than the private sector (excluding those fields in which they have monopolies of course).

          • Eddie47d

            Actually there was a time when government had more control and investments in satellite communications than the private sector. We owe our vast communication network to those government workers who build and sent those rockets into space.The spin off to private investors created a boon to how we did business here in America and around the world. Also the Internet and computers were mostly in the hands of our government.That investment created millions of jobs and hundreds of large and small businesses. Government can be a great partner with private entrepreneurs if we stop thinking of it as always being the enemy. I’m sure the airline companies greatly benefited from government technology in the past.

          • DaveH

            In all of your attempted examples, the government couldn’t achieve the efficiencies that the private sector did.

          • Eddie47d

            Why was the government way ahead in these developements? You are so arrogant and full of sour grapes.

          • JIBBS

            eddie, government jobs are paid with taxes, my money. Private jobs create money and taxes. A government job is like paying your bills with your credit card….can you see where this is going?

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          DaveH!

          “Government is a consumer of wealth, not a producer of wealth”.

          That wold make a GREAT tee shirt!

          • DaveH

            Actually that is a quote from Judge Napolitano’s Freedom Watch on Fox Business Channel. I love that guy.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    I have found as I see many unemployed, and know many unemployed, it is without a doubt, that over 95 percent of them could get a job if they wanted to, but they just dont want to. They all have the same response, and that is that they feel why should they work when the government if giving them 400 bucks a week. That pretty much is the motivating factor for them. And overall, many in these fine United States of America, have found they can make a living on Welfare and food stamps, and this same system rewards them for having more kids, and it is a generational thing, where one follows another follows another, and these so called impoverished people stay that way, dependant on the government, and they all mysteriously vote democrat. They vote for the very people that have kept them down and “in their place” for so many years. Its sad and amazing at the same time. You give a man a hand out, and you will break him down and make him become dependant, but if you make him work for a living, he will rise above it. Our social programs have been, and continue to be a black eye upon this country, and they continue to grow each time a liberal gains power, as their ultimate goal is to make everyone dependant on government, because the more people they have dependant on them, the more power they have. Its pretty simple actually.

    • Edward Elmer

      You are absolutely right!

    • Chuck

      Well said, it is definitely a planned attack on our freedoms and the people.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Beberoni… You have summed it up nicely.

      • soldier

        If there were no welfare and no food stamps, there would have been a revolution a long time ago. Either that or people would have starved to death. We are going deep into debt with cheap foreign goods, welfare, food stamps, etc., to stave off any revolution until the police state is firmly in place. However, things are accelerating faster than the elitists in control want them to. Things will be interesting in the next few years…

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          soldier.. Once the US collapses, and there isn’t any more welfare checks to send out or food stamps, those who are dependent will have no choice but to survive by whatever means it will take. Not a very pretty picture to paint for our future, is it?

          • ValDM

            Let’s step back and take a good look at the big picture. Most of our “good” jobs have gone overseas……..making us a “service economy”. There are only so many “services” that can be rendered; and these “service” involved jobs also paid less. These jobs are disappearing, never to return.

            We currently, and for some time, have been paying farmers not to plant their land, leading us into food shortages. I see it at the store all the time. There’s less to be had, and what there is, is sometimes inferior quality.

            Our options to choose and the freedoms to do so are disappearing. We either have to take a job we don’t want to do or have no job at all. Same with other options in our lives.

            We are being “funnelled” to accept less and less as normal. I have a point and will get there soon. If we can’t work and go on the “dole”, our future is set. You may not feel that way at the beginning, but that’s the way it is. We are also being “funnelled” to accept fewer choices and less quality in our foods, clothing, etc.

            Now, if you look at all these things as a grand scheme set in force some decades ago, you will also see that we are nearing the narrow point of the funnel.

            Here’s where things get very interesting. We know there are global elites that have been giving us a very clear picture of “their” future, but it’s still a little hazy for us common folks. No work, no food. This will lead us to riots and destruction. But it’s a planned destruction. Stalin did it in Ukraine in 1932-33. It was called Holodomor. I’ve written about this before and would like everyone to know about it and their future. Look it up. There are too many sites for me to list them here. Look it up and see if this doesn’t dovetail nicely with the population control elites, and see if it isn’t part of our future……ALL OF US.

          • Cawmun Cents

            ValDim,I quite agree.You are a student of History.This I like.Most Americans will not believe the possibility of this past event occuring here.They do not understand the insidiousness of Communism.You can not get them to look at the big picture.they are used to the short attention span theatre,given to them by todays media.One day they will see the reality when it smiles it’s balck-toothed grin.Thank you for the history lesson…I say this on their behalf,as I dont see any of them thanking you.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            ValDM:

            Interesting, and thought provoking. Thank you.

            I will try to follow the links in the article when I get a chance.

        • Patty

          Soldier-I think you would be surprised at how many would actually starve to death than take care of themselves much less whatever they have brought into this world. I wonder how many babies you would find in a dumpster if their welfare was to be stopped.

    • BigBadJohn

      You over look a whole segment of society. I am nearing 60; I am a network engineer with 30 years computer experience, was laid off and cannot find a permanent job.

      During the 2000′s all of the “good paying engineering jobs” were sent to India or China. Also all of the courts were stacked with conservatives, which basically eliminated age discrimination lawsuits.

      The only jobs that I can find are contract – no benefits – making half of what I was making, and I have to compete with 20 something’s.

      The Pay and competing I can deal with, but how am I supposed to pay for health insurance?

      • Patty

        Big Bad-I am not sure where you live, but in MN, they have affordable health insurance through the state. If you have not had healthcare for 2 months, you are eligable. I know of a construction worker who paid $10.00/month. Check with your state.

        • Patty

          Big Bad- Also, if you are not sickly, you can get a premium with a high deductable for about $100.00/month. If you have a prescription for meds, go to CanadaDrugs.com . I saved almost $600.00 on my subscription doing that. It cost me less to get it through them than what I had to pay on my co-pay.

    • Wayfaring Stranger

      I have been unemployed since the end of September, taking my $400/week handouts as you see them after 23 years of steady work. For the last 16 years my salary range has stayed in the $9-14 range regardless of education, certifications, or experience. My take home pay without OT has never been more than $400. A lot of people have car payments greater than that and think nothing of it. Employers do not want skilled, self motivated employees who are worth more than their salary, they want dumbed down automatons who will serve as mindless devoted slaves and take the scraps dropped from the table. They might have 15 hours available this week, and demand you work 60 the next, while ensuring your overall average stays below 40. Employment opportunities currently available to me would reduce by half my take home on unemployment. We don’t have cable, car payments, credit cards, etc. My kids are in public school, and the only extravagance we have is gym memberships that give us an equipped facility to maintain our health and workout my stress from constant failure and repeated rejections.

      How do you suggest my family respond to that? Give me a straight answer. I want to work, I get turned down daily. I don’t consider a $28K annual salary exorbitant. The only direction my family is headed is down. Lower quality housing in questionable neighborhoods, rattier vehicles, etc.

      I don’t want a handout, but I cannot force employers to hire me. I cannot entice employers to retrain me. My efforts to start my own business have been repeatedly denied even with a demand in my area of proven expertise. But the state and federal government offered me funding to be reeducated in a different field, what? It was going to cost them more to retrain me than to provide me grants or loans to start over with my name on the side of a truck. That’s crazy. So after a few months I agreed to enter that program – oops there are no longer any funds for that.

      You and Dr Edward Elmer are obviously well to do professionals who are out of touch (insulated from) with the average, drug free, skilled laborer who is striving to provide basic needs to his family and raise them in a safe environment with integrity. You are both ignorant of what is taking place in the market when employers are more concerned about historically unrealistic profit margins rather than workplace integrity and reliable loyal employees who willingly provide necessary services. My utilities and basic needs costs have gone up 35% in the last two years, with lower usage and personal consumption across the board. Yet you want me to take a job making less than the $373/week I currently draw on unemployment. You’ll get your wish soon enough since my regular ‘benefits’ are running out.

      • JR

        Most of the conservatives will never get it,
        They believe its just a mater of going out there and looking for a job…there are enough out there they say….of course there are…minimum wage and below and for everyone there are 10 applicants, minimum wage is something NOBODY not even they them self is able to raise a family on. This country is going to hell fast and it is the same people scoffing at others that are causing the demise. What they don’t understand is that they them self are only a minute away from total job loss ….even if they are self employed. Nobody is immune against accidents and criminal greed.Savings can be whiped out in the blink of an eye. They all live on borrowed time and in the end there is a really good chance they end up just like you…wanna bet they’re tune will change fast?

        • Wayfaring Stranger

          2Tim3:1-4 pretty well sums it up “But know this, that in the last days perilous [irreconcilable in Greek] times will come: for men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money… unloving… slanderers… despisers of good… lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God.”

          Even so come quickly Lord Jesus, I’m tired of waiting for the well to do conservatives to realize they were blessed by your hand to be a blessing to others…and I’m certainly tired of being slandered by them for drawing my first government administered assistance since I started working at age 15.

          • Eddie47d

            ….and they will continue to slander you and find reams of faults to lay at your feet. You are one step closer to being a welfare cheat as they gloat over your predicament. Shame on you …you worthless unAmerican pond scum. Most on this site are retired and have nothing better to do than to disparage others.They have found their place in life and the workforce is now a passing fantasy.

          • JeffH

            47D…”Most on this site are retired and have nothing better to do than to disparage others”

            You, too, are a part of that group dear 47D!

          • Eddie47d

            I do watch my grandson 10 hours a day also (20 mos). My wife says as soon as he’s in daycare or school I better be looking for a job.She might win that one.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            I dare you to tell your wife that she doesn’t work!! to put up with you she has to be a saint!!! The only bad thing about you sitting your grand kid I can see is your prog influence on him!!

        • Thamera

          JR the minimum wage – entry level job was never intended as a career path! But, it is a means to an end. When I didn’t have full-time employment, I worked 2 jobs but there is certainly no incentive to get off your butt if you are making more on unemployment than actually working. In the meantime, you are only hurting yourself because the longer you remain unemployed, the less likely you are to get a job. At the very least, volunteer! If your on unemployment, you’ve got time so go out and start volunteering, it may open doors you never thought of. At least you would be networking.

      • RW

        You cannot get an answer to your problems from another. Dig down deeper inside and you will find an answer.

      • Patty

        Wayfaring & JR – you don’t specify what your skill is. Is this a skill you could turn into making your own company? There are few skills out there other than a Dr. that you could not go off on your own and make your own job. While you are unemployed, you can use that time and the gov’t. money to build yourself a business. What JR doesn’t get is that most conservatives are self-reliant. Think about that. They don’t wait for someone to give them a job, they make their own.

    • pete

      Mr. Beberoni,

      What you said sounds good from a rhetorical viewpoint. Let me just say a few words about it ….

      In the economy most people will go with the better deal. That’s market forces – trying to fight market forces is an exercise in futility and insanity …

      That’s all the welfare recipient is doing, getting the better deal. Right ? Who is being unrealistic ? We try to figure out reality, but sometimes we get it wrong.

    • Paul Anthony

      Beberoni … Some people get it – some people don’t get it. YOU GET IT! Bravo on your state of the union analysis. The basic philosophy here is that liberals and progressives “don’t eat” unless they control the White House. Period! Every time they dole out an unemployment check, they buy a vote! Every time they dole out food stamps, they buy a vote! Every time they raise the minimum wage, they buy a vote! Every time they pad the union coffers, they buy votes…millions of them! And on and on and on…. Where will it end? In about 5 to 7 years from now, the once great United States of America will likely resemble a lifestyle and economy similar to that of some Latin American country. Hopefully not some Banana Republic?

    • DaveH

      And that is exactly what they are doing with National Health Care. They want the citizens to become helpless sheep depending on the Government for table scraps.

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

      Yes Beberoni, we have allowed the governmnet to turn the safety net into a hammock.

      • Patty

        Oh so true.

    • Patty

      “A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.” – Jefferson

    • Void1972

      Berberoni,
      I couldnt agree more, and have thought along those same lines all my life until I recently went on unemployment for the first time in my life!
      My industry is dying because of the Spanish population who work for half the wages we need to survive in our area. Business is off up to 70 percent in my area and I cannot find a job that can support my family.
      I agree that I can find a job, but the commute to the city which cost $340 a month, and work for a salary I made 25yrs ago is not worth me leaving my house!
      We are moving south where I can buy a home for cash and not be strapped with a $3400 monthly morgage.
      The problem is living in an area where we are over taxed, over worked and under paid.
      All of our current problems in this country comes from illegal immigration. From the collapse in the housing industry to healthcare to bankrupt city’s and states.
      If we don’t make a stand now, and unite as a battered people, we will lose our America!
      God Bless America, and those who fight for her!!!

      • Patty

        Berberoni-I am guessing that you worked in the construction industry? $3,400./mo for a mortgage is alot. I can remember when I wanted to finish off my basement when home improvement loans were plentiful and the banks were letting you mortgage 110% of your home value. Anyways, when I was getting bids on my project, which I had already cost out at a certain $ value, the person came up with double what I did. He was nice enough to sit down with me and go over his bid. I showed him what I came up with, and he replied, most people don’t do the numbers like you did and I can get away with charging that much. Well. the market is not supporting that any longer and I really don’t see that the immagrants are working for that much less than reasonable.

        • JIBBS

          Then you nothing about construction, zero. Union labor unions created the high costs, not the worker!! And you have no idea about the illegal problems in the trades. I’ve seen Americans get laid off and the piece working illegal, pay the Superintendet $50.00 a week to keep working. Did I mention that several of them may have the same SS number. When you don’t know what you are talking about, it’s best to keep your mouth shut.

          • Patty

            Jibbs – You better not be directing that at me. I know more than you think I do about construction. From clients in architecture to cement layers to having hired construction workers for 2 properties to doing it myself. I won’t say anymore unless you were directing that at me and explain yourself. Otherwise, if you were F off.

          • Patty

            Jibbs – I do know what I am talking about. I have watched construction workers do half a$$ jobs time and again. There is not one construction worker (contractor) that I had give me a bid on one thing that didn’t berate the previous person that worked here. My answer to them was, ya right, and the next guy that does work on my properties will berate the work that you did. I can tell you this, I have had union and non-union and I will hire a scabber anytime over union. It takes 3 of them to do the work of one. 1 to watch, one to do the work and the 3rd to smoke dope. When I had my roof replaced the one that spoke english stood around and said areeba, areeba, underla, underla to the ones roofing. He was worthless.

  • Edward Elmer

    Superb analysis! The only other thing you might have mentioned is private vs. public sector unemployment; the former currently is about twice the latter, as best I can tell. The fourth cause of unemployment which you list is absolutely crucial. I am a doctor and all day long I see young, able-bodied individuals who have “gotten their disability,” i.e. retired on a steady stream of Federal disability payments. This is astoundingly easy to do. In fact, I have NEVER seen a patient NOT “get their disability” if they are persistent. There are hordes of attorneys who advertise their assistance with this process. I even see “disabled” patients who come in drunk or reeking of pot, trying to wheedle narcotic prescriptions from me.

    • JR

      Anybody who believes your story has eaten stupidity by the spoon full.

      • Dagney

        Nice. I believe the good doctor because the corruption in government handouts is for all to see. You, JR, are a crude individual who needs to do more listening than “talking”.

        • Wayfaring Stranger

          The good doctor is seeing the exception and proclaiming it the rule. I agree there are abuses in our system, and that as a doctor he does indeed see a higher percentage of abusers attempting to further abuse another part of the system.

          What I vehemently disagree with is his painting all unemployed individuals with such a wide brush stroke, as abusing systems in place for their supposed protection.

          Now, is my reasoning and verbiage up to snuff? Do I have your permission to speak rather than listen? Perhaps you should take your own advice.

          • DaveH

            Do you have any referential proof to back up your dissing of the Doctor, Stranger?
            One of the first requirements for Social Security Disability is a medical history to back up the claim. So they must go through the medical establishment first. None of us (excluding SS administrators) would know better than a Doctor how common those claims are.
            I personally know 2 people on SS disability, and neither one of them is as sick as I’ve been for 35 years (CFIDS). No telling how many of them I’ve supported over the years with my own hard earned money.
            We have a faceless bureaucracy and faceless recipients of money taken from people who often suffer more hardships than the recipients of their unwillingly donated money (as in my case).
            It’s a travesty.

          • Patty

            I know someone who is collecting over 1200/mo on federal disability because he got Hep C (on his own) and the treatment is like chemo. Although he is as cured as he can get, and very able bodied, he still collects this plus he can earn “X” amount on top of that. I believe it is a threashold under 45k. Bottom line was, he just wanted out of his job with pay. And he is collecting it.

          • Dan az

            Hey Dave
            check out this site hope it helps!
            http://www.immunesupport.com/news/98spr003.htm

          • Patty

            Wayfaring-The Dr. is not dissing ALL unemployed, he is talking about the public sector employees. Even in my conservativeness I know of more than 1 that has used and abused that system. After all, they are in the system and who would know better how to abuse it.

        • JR

          Well, although there are some cases that really do not need disability, it is still NOT as easy as he said it is, The reason I doubt his story, and the reason I doubt he being a Dr. is simple, If he really is a Dr. he would know that if someone comes to his practice, claims to be on disability and does nothing but tries to get drugs, all he as a “”Dr.”" has to do is to file a report with SSI. In fact, it is his duty to do so. His practice can be fined and in extreme cases he can lose his accreditation with the AMA if he failes to do so. Upon receiving this report by the social security administration, the individuals disability will be put on “review”. I have seen cases put on review within 24hrs of the original report. A very little known fact is also, that if you know of someone in your area that receives SSI and you see them working or you suspect fraud YOU can report them and then they have to go through the same review.
          A review means that an INDEPENDENT Dr.(or panel of DRs) reviews the case and this Dr or multiple of them then examine the patient. If he is really fully functional, then there is NOTHING any Lawyer can do to re-establish the receipt of disability.
          The common believe that everyone who is lazy can go out and get disability…its a myth, and its the same myth the original poster that said he is a Dr. propagated.

          • American

            Based on experience, I’m going to have to agree with the good doctor. I don’t believe he is saying everyone on disability is fraudulent, he’s just telling us what he often sees in his practice. Years ago, I worked as the manager of a finance company that made small loans. There were many hard workers who needed a little help that we serviced but there were a high number of individuals who didn’t work asking for loans. I would get so upset with the young girl who came in with four kids telling me her sources of income were SSI, food stamps, etc. (no job), yet she was covered in gold necklaces, bracelets and rings. And the 24 yr. old lineman who had fallen from a telephone pole, hurt his back and was on permanent disability for the rest of his life along with food stamps. He’d pull up on his expensive motorcycle and list his various other “toys” for collateral and, in friendly conversation, tell me about the skiing he did on the river the day before. I’ve also worked for a privately-owned social services business. 100% of the clients, and prescription mgmt patients, were on gov’t. assistance and less than 5% were job-seekers. Often times they came in drunk or high on pot, even some who were pregnant. Through my network, I saw this was a huge problem across the state. I’m not saying everyone that gets a check from the government is like this either. There are some who have exhausted all other efforts and have no alternatives. But the majority of those getting handouts fit this description and this will always be the norm until we get people in office who will make necessary changes to get these people out of the system. By the way, I lost my job over a year ago but because of my few assests I’m not below the poverty limit and therefore, my son and I don’t qualify for assistance, not even food stamps. I’ve worked and paid in for 28 yrs., don’t do drugs and have good job skills. But my government tells me although I’m struggling I’m less deserving than those who have never, not one day, reported for work.

          • JeffH

            JR, are you even aware that SSI and SSDI are two entirely different?

            SSI – Supplemental Security Income benefits or SSI is a Federal income supplement program funded by general tax revenues and are paid to individuals who are lower income individuals and disabled whether or not the individual has worked in the past.

            SSDI – Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) is a monthly benefit for people who have worked in the past and paid Social Security taxes. SSDI benefits is based on prior work under Social Security, SSI disability payments are based on income and resource specifications.

          • Patty

            Except for that sets him up to be sued by the “patient”. Doctors are busy enough with red tape. Why would they want to add to it?

      • Thamera

        JR he is unequivocally correct. This happens every singe day. I see it everyday. It is staggering and the government in their complete incompetency allows it to continue. It is sooooo incredibly easy to get disability and for the most ridiculous things like ADHD. People know to study the symptoms so that they can be diagnosed. Once they get the diagnosis they get free meds which they turn around and sell on the street for money and they get SSI for the rest of their lives! It is a shakedown and a con and it happens every single day. And this is only ONE example of the abuse and fraud that our welfare system is rife with! You really need to take your blinders off man. The doctor is 100% correct!

        • Eddie47d

          We do need higher standards in receiving all benefits.It is hard to weed out those who can work if “everyone is doing it”. Those on the receiving end do need to take more responsibility for their situation. Those giving out the benefits need to also push alittle harder to get them off those benefits. We all gain if everyone plays fair.

          • Thamera

            well said Eddie….you do have moments of lucidity :) Seriously, the problem that the doctor touched on is widespread and found in every venue that is in some way connected to the welfare system. The questions Eddie is: How do we do that…Get people to play fair that is?

          • DaveH

            Eddie,
            If you have cable, watch the Secret Millionaire. It is an eye-opener. There are good people around the country who pitch in to help those who are truly misfortunate, and they do it without Government help. The Government safety net has proven to be a failure, here, and throughout history.
            There is one feature of private charity that recipients have to put up with, and that is they must be polite to their benefactors. Contrast that with Government aide, where the recipients thumb their noses at their benefactors (the taxpayers).

          • Eddie47d

            Haven’t seen that show yet but have heard of it so I might give it a look. I believe in the government helping out but they don’t have enough sense to know when to cut people off,(and the people know it).

          • Eddie47d

            Thamera; “How do we as a society play honest”? For some including myself I go to church every Sunday. It really comes down to a personal code and some never have it. Even good people do bad things but if they make amends and snap out of their misdeeds it’s usually because of those core values they once had. My 3 kids together put in 23 years in Scouts. My daughter turned out to be a beautiful mom and hard worker. Both my sons messed up in life but straightened out. They would do anything for anybody and in a good way. Parents have to be strict and involved in their kids education and hope they will grow up playing fair. Every adult should know right from wrong and should be dealt with accordingly.

          • Patty

            Eddie – I am really proud of what you posted above. It even makes sense.

          • Patty

            Dave H. – You don’t even need cable. I don’t have it and I get it. I cut the cable compny off more than a year ago.

        • American

          Thamera, I have two relatives that type doctors’ notes for a living. They both tell me that ADHD is the most commonly abused reason for receiving gov’t. handouts. I’ve seen this myself working in social services. Used to be, when a child misbehaved he was taken out to the woodshed. That cured the problem, the kid didn’t act up anymore, and that was the end of it. Nowadays, a kid who is given sugar-laden cereal for breakfast and can’t sit still at school is labeled a trouble-maker and sent for an assessment. Parents will say..”Johnny’s always getting into trouble and acting out” (they can’t seem to figure out its because Johnny has no structure or discipline), the doctor diagnosis him with ADHD and prescribes meds, Johnny becomes a zombie and the parents file for assistance and get a check from Uncle Sam every month. Some people spend as much effort not disciplining their kids as those of us who do raise our kids right. And some people work very hard at not working.

          • Carlucci

            Exactly. Most of the problems with kids is a crummy dead processsed food diet. Top that with psychotropic legal drugs and no wonder kids are so screwed up.

            Check this link out – it explains everything:

            http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/03/07/reversing-depression-without-antidepressants.aspx

          • Thamera

            You aren’t kidding! Anyone working in social services would most likely say the same thing. The trend is disturbing and really should be alarming and you are dead right most of these kids problems are hands down, THEIR PARENTS!! Note to JR: I have reported fraud on more than one occasion. The outcome? NOTHING!

        • Patty

          Thamara-I am very interested in what you have to say, I have heard others like you who witness this. Is there not something you can do when you see this kind of abuse? Afterall, you seem to be on the “frontlines” of this. Is there no “stop gap” to eliminate these abuses?

      • BigBadJohn

        Here ya go turn it into a business!!!!!!

        Disability Fraud GOVERNMENT GIVES REWARD FOR REPORTING SSI FRAUD

        http://seniors-site.com/fraud/2297.html

        • Patty

          So, is there a list of people you can get access to in your area of people collecting these benefits? Like sexual offenders?

    • pete

      Mr Elmer,

      We need to get rid of the “prescription” system. A person should have the option of buying any drugs/pharmaceuticals without a prescription.

      You wouldn’t have this problem, if pot was legal like tobacco (preferably without the taxes !).

      • DaveH

        You’re right, Pete. The Government has no business in protecting people from themselves. We have the natural right to control our own bodies and property free from the control of others.
        If you believe in Individual Liberty, Personal Responsibility, Free Markets, Limited Government, and Peace — see here:
        http://libertarianparty.org/platform

        • Patty

          Dave – I checked out the Libertarian party in my state, and honestly, they were a bunch of wing nuts. I so believe in their principles, but the people were on the wacked side. That was a while back. Maybe I should check them out again and give them another shot.

          • DaveH

            Even wing nuts need freedom, Patty. I actually enjoy the strange ones, as long as they aren’t a threat to me. The scary people are the ones who want everybody to be just like them. Like the Quakers, or the Muslims.
            I can’t even imagine how boring the world would be if everybody thought alike and dressed alike. Yuck.

          • Patty

            Dave H – No. I’m talking like true wing-nuts. Like the people who foil their windows and wear foiled hats type people. Ya know, that was a meeting at a hotel….maybe I went to the wrong forum door…..

          • DaveH

            Patty, go to mises.org, reason.org, or cato.org. Then tell me they sound like wingnuts.

        • Patty

          Dave – thanks for the sites. I will check them out. I was just talking about the people that I met at the local libertarian chapter. Not the overall libertarian view which I totally relate to.

      • ValDM

        Pete,
        I have to disagree with you on this. There are certain drugs that should NEVER be available to just anyone. For example, anti-psychotics, anti-seizure medications. How about those injectibles or infusibles that are used to treat many of the auto-immune disorders? Here’s another one: steroids. Don’t we have enough brain-dead losers who abuse drugs already? Do we need a few hundred thousand more?

        • Cawmun Cents

          This is where I have to disagree with you sir.People who will kill themselves with these dangerous drugs will often find another way to do it regardless of the implications.There are those who are hell bent on destroying themselves and regulation never keeps it from happening.You can not regulate sanity.Nor can you legislate it.What it seems to effect is the outcome of the victims of such people who are headed for destruction.But we are well capable of taking care of our own neighborhoods if we can all agree to a constabulary-style of neighborhood governance.This would necessitate people getting to know each other and caring for one another more than looking out for #1,but it could be done through a series of well aimed townhall meetings if proper use of flyers and television /radio adds were used.Suggest to everyone to make it a reason to get to know others,and perhaps even make it a potluck event for each local community.Part of the word community is based on people living together.We had best get back to watching out for ourselves and not letting Big Brother do it for us.

        • Carlucci
        • Thamera

          I have been saddened and amazed at what some people come up with to get a high. Not that I condone any drug, but what kids can get a hold of these days pails in comparison to any issues we thought we might have had with say marijuana.

      • Patty

        Elmer – Yes they should. But like I told my insurance provider and the company that makes the drug I have been prescribed, “don’t tell me how unscrupulous it can be ordering drugs on line. I have met unscrupulous, and it is both of you. Anyone needing affordable meds:CanadaDrugs.com (less than my co-pay) My Dr. who prescribed this had absolutely no problem faxing them my prescription with a huge thumbs up.

    • Karolyn

      Yeah, right! I know people who were legitimately disabled who had to fight for 2 years or more to get SSD. Tell your story to the family of the young Charlotte man who killed himself a couple of years ago, waiting for a decision on his disability because he didn’t have the money for his medications!

      • Thamera

        yeah right!!! what??? Karolyn. Just because you know people that have had to fight for their disability doesn’t mean that isn’t overused and abused. It is especially easy for younger people. Those under age 23. All your post does is point out the inefficiency of the government to run any kind of program.

        • Patty

          Totally agree. The ones that really need it, don’t get it. The ones that have gov’t. employees filling out the form for them do. Karolyn, I feel bad about your friend, but even if they had gotten it, would that have saved them? Depression is the #1 cause of suicide. Even under treatment.

  • Howard Roark

    The reason I believe is basic. the country is not producing enough real wealth.

    Real wealth is created in three basic ways 1. agriculture. 2. mining (includes oil,natural gas) 3. Manufacturing.

    When I was growing up in the nineteen fifties the country made almost everything here. Radios.televisions cars,clothing,etc. we also had a merchant marine second to none.

    over the decades I have seen it all fade away. the politicians tell us that we are now a service economy but what is there to service when most of the real wealth producing activities are gone.

    in short real wealth has to be produced. once wealth is produced it trickles down through the rest of the economy. example: the miner buys a suit of clothes. the taylor uses the money to get a hair cut etc..

    • Wayfaring Stranger

      well stated. I’m amazed how prophetic Ross Perot has turned out to be. I wasted my vote for him knowing he spoke common sense with integrity.

      • Patty

        That is because he was a businessman 1st and a politician 2nd.

    • Al Sieber

      Howard thats what I do, mining. there are plenty of jobs in the mining industry from laborers on up to geologists, mining engineers, etc. they’re begging for help and you can make some good money if you want to work.

    • pete

      Politicians usually are good at politics, that’s why they get re-elected.

  • http://aol.com sean murrey

    the reason it is so high most of the jobs went overseas via slick willie the real number is 20%.

    • soldier

      Yup. Free trade and NAFTA are pretty much the number one reason for our high unemployment. Both Republicans and Democrats refuse to address this. GW perhaps could have stopped this but he was more interested in errecting a new police state.

      • DaveH

        Our problems aren’t the result of so-called Free Trade. We don’t even have Free Trade. Free Trade administered by Government panels is NOT Free Trade.
        What is wrong with this country? Are our workers lazier than the Chinese? Are our workers just spoiled? How is it that the Chinese can produce their goods, and ship them across the vast Pacific Ocean, and still outprice us? I blame it on our Leviathan Government which is sucking the life out of our economy. Of course our wages don’t stretch as far as they used to, because 40% of them are going to feed the Big Government beast.
        True Free Trade would involve no Government Panels. And Free Trade is beneficial, not detrimental, as it takes advantage of peoples’ unique skill sets around the world. And we get the most productivity, thus the most created wealth that way.
        Our problems aren’t going to end until the vast majority of Americans realize that Government doesn’t create Wealth, it consumes it.

        • BigBadJohn

          “What is wrong with this country? Are our workers lazier than the Chinese? Are our workers just spoiled? How is it that the Chinese can produce their goods, and ship them across the vast Pacific Ocean, and still outprice us? I blame it on our Leviathan Government which is sucking the life out of our economy.”

          I also blame it on the government – if the republicans had not given tax breaks to American companies to send workers to China, India and Mexico a lot of those jobs would still be in the USA.
          The truly scary thing is that innovation and engineering are what made this country great. But because of those tax breaks to send jobs to China, they now have all of our engineering jobs. Think about that for a second…. How are we ever going to get that edge back?

          • DaveH

            John,
            I’m not aware of Government giving tax breaks for companies to send people abroad. But, it also wouldn’t totally surprise me. We need to abolish the Income Tax System with all its byzantine hoops and come up with a truly “fair” tax where the people just pay their taxes without jumping through all the Government hoops like a bunch of trained seals.
            And there shouldn’t be any corporate taxes at all. Corporations don’t pay taxes, People pay taxes. It’s just a shell game played by Government Leaders to hide how much they are really taking from the citizens.

          • Patty

            Big Bad – What we need is a resource for all of the people on this blog site (unemployed, unhappy with their job) to unite and do it like they did before gov’t. intervention. All of you people who are unemployed and want work, start networking. Get together with other people in your area and combine your talents and start a company. How do you hook up with them? There is a web site already out there set up to do this. It is called LinkedIn.com . We have to find a way out of this ourselves. belong, but I have more business than I know what to do with, but many people have used it. Maybe we could all use it to form new American companies. Advertise your services on CraigsList. Any others have some ideas that can help these people get out of their rut and into the freedom of running your own business?

          • BigBadJohn

            Patty,

            Thanks for the concern and ideas. I use Linkedin and was offered my last contract job there, without even sending a resume. So yes networking works.

            I like the idea of finding like minded people an starting a company selling your services. I’ll have to think long and hard on that one.

          • DaveH

            Problem is Patty, that we still have to overcome all the Government regulatory hurdles that are largely set up to stifle newcomers and protect the crony-capitalists.

          • Patty

            Innovation and engineering are still alive and well here. It is just that the regulations cripple us.

          • Patty

            Dave H-I am not talking about following any gov’t. regulations. Screw them. It sounds like most of these people are to the point of, I have nothing else to lose. So, what are they going to threaten them with? Work under the radar. I know someone who ran out of unemployment and works on cars in the garage, fixes lawnmowers, motorcycles, snowblowers, etc. Takes a while to build the business, but it is getting there. They have already lost everything of value in thier lives except their tools. They rent and have nothing in their name worth taking. They still look for a real job, but the automotive industry is not coming back.

        • Patty

          Dave – One of the reasons is that Americans have choosen quantity over quality. They use cheaper metals, cheaper labor, cheaper everything, therefore you have a cheaper inferior product. Which we buy by the boat load.

    • http://AOL.COM FRENCHIE

      TRUE ENOUGH….THIS IS WHAT YOU END UP WITH WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO COULDN’T PROPERLY OPERATE A LEMONADE STAND MAKING INTERNATIONAL TRADE DEALS. THE GOVERNMENT DOESN’T UNDERSTAND THAT UNTIL WE GET PEOPLE FROM THE BUSINESS SECTOR INSTEAD OF THE POLITICAL SECTOR TO MAKE OUR BUSINESS DECISIONS FOR US, WE’RE SCREWED. DOES ANYBODY REALLY THINK SOMEBODY LIKE DONALD TRUMP (FOR EXAMPLE) WOULD’VE BEEN STUPID ENOUGH TO SIGN OFF ON NAFTA OR THE TRADE DEALS WITH CHINA OR INDIA ? HELL NO, HE WOULDN’T ! HE WOULD HAVE ENOUGH BUSINESS SENSE TO KNOW IT’S A LOSING PROPOSITION FOR AMERICA & WE’D END UP SCREWED IN THE END. KIND OF LIKE WE ARE NOW. HELL, EXACTLY LIKE WE ARE NOW. BUSINESS + GOVERNMENT = OIL & WATER. THE TWO JUST DON’T MIX. UNTIL WASHINGTON UNDERSTANDS THAT, THINGS AREN’T GOING TO CHANGE IN OUR FAVOR ANYTIME SOON. I’M SURE THAT IF “THE DONALD”, OR SAY MAYBE, STEVE FORBES WERE ASKED TO DO SOME NEGOTIATING FOR THE COUNTRY, THEY’D HAPPILY DO IT FOR US. WHY ? BECAUSE THEY’RE AMERICANS 1st & BUSINESSMEN 2nd. IT’S JUST THAT SIMPLE. POLITICIANS HAVE PROVEN THEMSELVES TO BE MONUMENTAL FAILURES AT BUSINESS. SO START LETTING BUSINESSMEN DO OUR DEALING FOR US & WE JUST MIGHT BE O.K. . IT’S LIKE I’VE SAID A MILLION TIMES BEFORE, YOU DON’T SEND A GROCERY CLERK TO OVERHAUL AN ENGINE IF YOU WANT THE TRUCK TO RUN RIGHT.

      • Dagney

        Please turn off the caps lock. It makes it very hard to read what you are trying to say.

        • DaveH

          I agree, and Frenchie did make a very worthwhile comment once I slogged through the all-caps.

      • Patty

        Frenchie – Donald just might run. Stay tuned until June. I bet he would be hell on wheels!

        • patrick H.T. paine

          “To conquer, first divide.”

          Children, in case you haven’t noticed, it is business + government that is responsible for where WE are……..

          Donald Trump, started with 40 million, from daddy, and he made his
          money by buying government……he is an IDIOT, and his latest claim
          to fame, is screwing the mad lybian…which in case you don’t understand it: is a crime…….regardless of WHO the victim is……
          or how fashionable it might be.

          To improve your understanding you might find the following useful:

          Pinstripe Patronage: Political Favoritism from the Clubhouse, to
          the Whitehouse and Beyond.

          Contrary to popular belief, Knowledge is NOT Power, applied knowledge is!

          “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls……”

  • Republicrat

    “The government is making employee health benefits more expensive by an unknown amount. “Obamacare” is leading to rising health-insurance premiums for employers, but on top of that the total impact is unknown, because of court challenges and Republican promises to reform or even repeal the legislation. Consequently, employers have an incentive to postpone long-term hiring decisions until the issues are resolved.”

    So, why can’t we get the Tea Party folks in Congress to stop talking about repealing the health care act and get the governors to drop their lawsuits, so that employers will no longer have the uncertainty incentive to postpone hiring?

    • PhilaMike

      Whatever this obama administration does or will do is definitely NOT GOOD for any American Citizen, our Country or our Future…You are witnessing the End of America…..

      • Eddie47d

        The depression was far worse and rights were being taken away but there wasn’t near as much bemoaning about America failing as there is now. That is what makes so many comments pathetic.

        • DaveH

          And you’re how old, Eddie?
          You have no idea of what went on then.
          You could read this free online book and get a clue, but then you might have to eat crow, so I won’t count on you to read it:
          http://mises.org/rothbard/agd.pdf

          • Eddie47d

            Many of us have talked to our grandparents and know something about their personal lives then. I find it fascinating how little they lived on or possessions they had.That is why they were called the greatest generation for they knew how to roll with the punches. My mother who is 87 remembers those days vividly and it was hard on them.Yet she remained positive and very resourceful.

          • DaveH

            We definitely have more fancy toys than they had then. But that is in spite of Big Government, not a result of Big Government.
            My Grandma also grew up during the Depression and she was incredibly tight having experienced those hard times. One time we were going to throw a blanket in the trash (we were renting from her), but I told my wife that we couldn’t put it in our trash or we would be getting a lecture. She thought I was a little crazy, lol, but I took it down the block and put it in one of Grandma’s other rental’s trash.
            A few days later, she saw us and proudly showed us a “perfectly good” blanket that somebody had thrown away.

          • Patty

            Dave – That is so funny. I can relate to that. And all of you people that lived back in those times: Make no mistake about it, you are the greatest generation. I look at the kids today that think everything should be “green” while they replace their $400.00 Iphone every 4-6 months. They are the disposable generation on one hand and the “gp green” generation on the other. Our public education system has done a good job at teaching them they can have it both ways.

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Eddie… My father lived through the depression. He was born in 1921. He was just a kid. My mother lived through it, too. She was born in 1925. They are both gone now, so I can’t ask them what it was like. Chances are my Mom wouldn’t remember much. But my Dad probably would. He was the oldest boy in the family. Grandpa worked in Detroit through the week and left the farm to Grandma and my Dad to take care of.
          We have had a very soft life here in the United States. Should we be apologetic? I’m not. My parents worked hard and so have I to get what I have. It wasn’t without trials. My Dad worked for General Telephone Co. of Michigan. He also usually worked at second part time job, too.
          He was a WWII veteran. I know he would feel that what he did was to make sure the future of his children and grandchildren would be better than his own. Would he have regrets? I doubt it.
          We are going through hard times. Almost everybody is. Some are complaining, but not all. It’s hard to see my kids struggle, but it’s part of the ‘life experience’.
          Jobs are hard to come by. But, some places are even more depressed than others. It will probably get worse before it gets better, but those of us who put our faith in God know that He is still in control, regardless of who is in the White House and thinks they are in control!

    • DaveH

      Nice try, Republicrat, but most of the people on this board aren’t ignorant enough to buy it. You need to take your comment to the Liberal websites where they are.

    • Vigilant

      I’m afraid you’ve missed the point. Dropping lawsuits will simply convince employers that the costs of Obamacare will indeed prevent them from hiring. The uncertainty you speak of will become a certainty that they can’t hire.

      • Vigilant

        Clarification: that was addressed to Republicrat.

  • Gayle

    This administration has us by the short hairs. I still believe if we could get from under this America could still be America. But through the years I have watched people pull the disability act and was amazed at how it worked. There are people out there that think they are owed something for nothing. This mind set is destroying us. I have a neighbor who got fat then got disability about 10 yrs ago. Another neighbor worked for his brother in a convenience store and was robbed and ended up with a metal plate in his head and kept working. He passed away still working. He would have really qualified for disability. Life is not fair, but in a sense we have done it to ourselves. I remember when wic started too, but that’s another story.

    • PhilaMike

      What do you expect when 38% of our brilliant Public Educated American citizens can not tell you who the Vice President is? And these morons VOTE mostly Democrat….

      • Mick

        PhilaMike says:
        March 24, 2011 at 8:52 am
        What do you expect when 38% of our brilliant Public Educated American citizens can not tell you who the Vice President is? And these morons VOTE mostly Democrat
        ***********************************************

        PhilaMike,,,,,,That’s what we get when a government push their mediocre standards down our throats and call it education………

      • Vigilant

        Personally, I’d rather FORGET who the VP is!

    • Dingle

      There is an ad on t.v. for the motorized chair that looks like a good product however, there are two disgusting facts about it:

      1. Once you commit yourself to it, you are not going to get better, everything is down-hill from that point.

      2. They openly gloat that you don’t have to pay for it, you can get your neighbor to pay for it 100% with their help in processing the government forms.

      • Patty

        Exactly. Now there is a company we should put a scope up to find fraud. I truely dislike that commercial. Most of the people I see in those things belong on the People of WalMart picture site. Obese people buying more chips and twinkies and they don’t even have to walk the isles to find it.

  • Charlie

    Looking at this article ,it let a lot of things out .Thank to NAFTA and the china doll Bill clinton he was the one that kill the real middle class the private sector . I will make this short `good paying job`s let the country , sale your home and move to another job location . Your up side down on your mortgage ,no principal ,value of home down 42% .Governmental worker think that the private sector `can pull this over loaded wagon .You can always tell the condition of you government by the condition of your roads . No more double dipping.Elected to a office work 4 years buy a year at a reduced rate = 5 ,3 terms =15 years get the early buyout go on the drop program
    .In for 5 more years retire a millionaire . The people in Wis. and lower payed governmental worker not the middle class the true middle class is the private sector the one that is pull this wagon and it`s over

  • Howard Roark

    To sean murrey.

    You are absolutely correct. it started when Frankie the Marxist Roosevelt extorted the supreme court into ruling that the supposed general wealfare statement in Art one section eight of the Constitution gave the congress the authority to expend money for the general welfare. the courts though continuously ruled that when money is spent for the general welfare it must meet the test of the word GENERAL which means all or nearly all and all or nearly all americans must benefit equally from said spending. the politicians over time ignored the general test and began spending for pretty much anything they wanted. (and nobody said anything to stop them) (pull up the charts and you will see that the spending curve began after the Constitution was illegally changed by the Court,)

    As a result of this spending which grew larger and larger Congress began to tax the wealth producing activities higher and higher untill they left the country in order to make a profit A good example is because the Fed. Govt.continues to artificially keep sugar prices high with sugar subsidies the Life Saver Company moved to Canada in order to stay in business.

    I short the way i see it is that since the Fed. Govt usurped the Constitution with the fraudulant reading of the general welfare, the Fed Govt has now got the King Midas touch in reverse. (everything they touch turns into dung.

    • Charlie

      This is called communism .if you can look up this article in fortune magazine .( 366 billion outrage ) it`s about Calif. And a book called
      NONE DARE CALL IT TRESASON by John A.Stormer .They had 70 plus years to put this in place ,the book was wrote in the 60`s

      • newspooner

        Yes, you are correct. In many ways, it is that simple. The big problem is, however, that we need to provide much more detailed and well-presented explanations to the average person (after getting them to even listen) in order to effectively get something done. That was one of the great things about John Stormer’s book back in the 1960′s. For its day, it provided excellent explanations for the average person. John was always a little bit surprised at his success. I am not sure if he is still alive today, but he was (or is) a great person.

    • DaveH

      Yes. What the framers meant by “general welfare” was that the Federal Government couldn’t use their enumerated powers to benefit just selected groups of people or states.

    • justchimingin

      Howard Roark wrote..”the courts though continuously ruled that when money is spent for the general welfare it must meet the test of the word GENERAL which means all or nearly all and all or nearly all americans must benefit equally from said spending. the politicians over time ignored the general test and began spending for pretty much anything they wanted. (and nobody said anything to stop them) (pull up the charts and you will see that the spending curve began after the Constitution was illegally changed by the Court,)”

      This point can not be stressed enough as in many ways it is the root cause for what both sides of the arguments expoused on this thread can be traced back to. It seems to have been missed by several of the subsequent posters and I thought it would be helpful to repost it.

  • http://www.davidsfloors.com David

    The feds are eating our money via taxes, regulations, printing dollars, crushing states with unfunded mandates. Making everyone and states dependent on them. Companies cannot keep employees with more and more of their money going to the feds. It will crush us if we don’t stop it.

  • http://WeThePeople Jean

    I remember the early 80’s when the job market was almost none existent as well. I was told on numerous occasions that I was over-qualified. There were PHD’s lined up to get a job at McDonalds. This was in Knoxville, TN. The time when the Savings $ Loans went belly up. I was offered a job in Alaska by Union Carbide – but did not go because my husband at that time did not want to relocate.

    He missed a point (or ?I didn’t see it)– take Obums little auntie – on welfare. And other immigrants that are supposed to simulate into the American Dream – only to become a further burden on our economy. Take their families that they start bringing across the borders. These jobs (if they take any at all cannot be listed but only factored in).

    May God have mercy on us all

    • PhilaMike

      Many think the unemployed could get work and I agree but temper it with the fact that when applying for ANY job today there are Hundreds or thousands applying for that same one job. I recently applied and was told they recieved over 300 applicants within ONE HOUR..Don’t be too quick to judge others….

      • Patty

        Don’t fall into the trap. If you can’t find a job and you have skills, start your own company. If you can’t find a job, and have no skills, start cleaning peoples houses. You can still make it if you want to. You just have to adjust and find your niche. I know it is tough when you are down and depressed, but spring is right around the corner. A new beginning. Make it your new beginning too.

    • Carlucci

      The same thing happened to me in the eighties. I got laid off, and decided to switch gears. I took a few classes and got a real estate license, even though the housing market was in the toilet like it is now. I went into another sector of the real estate industry, and liked it so much I stayed in that industry for over 15 years until the Internet killed it. So, I switched gears again and got an insurance license. You just have to adapt as best you can…

      • Patty

        Carlucci-I love your attitude and adaptability. We need more of that.

  • Howard Roark

    Here is an excellent article on the General Welfare.

    Printer-friendly version/PDF.
    Addendum: updated graphs..
    The “General Welfare” Clause
    by JOHN W. BUGLER
    ( September 1994 ) Listen to George Washington and James Madison:

    Pull the Constitution out of the fire before it’s too late!

    We Americans find ourselves faced with the disquieting specter of a five trillion dollar national debt, a sum truly inconceivable. Many economists and politicians tell us this debt portends a disastrous financial collapse in the future and we worry. Once debt free, we are now the largest debtor nation in the world and as we find ourselves on the precipice we are confounded as to how we got there. For answers, however, we need look no further than the farewell address of our first President, George Washington, who, in reference to our constitution, warned,

    “Let there be no change [in the Constitution] by usurpation. For though this, in one instance may be the instrument of good, it is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed.”
    Change in the constitution by usurpation? When did that happen? It happened in 1937!
    Few americans realize that up until 1937 the Congress of the United States conducted its business within the boundaries of seventeen enumerated powers granted under Article I Section 8 of the United States Constitution. [Appx. 1] these powers defined clearly the areas of national purposes over which Congress could enact legislation including the allocation of funds and levying of taxes. Anything not set down in the enumerated powers was considered outside the purview of the national government and hence, a matter for the states. There were occasional challenges to the concept but it was not until Franklin Roosevelt’s new deal that it was attacked in deadly earnestness.

    Ill winds prevailed against the Constitution in the 1930′S. The country was in the depression and Franklin D. Roosevelt asked for extraordinary “powers similar to those necessary in time of war,” to meet the emergency. Poorly crafted legislation, some of it not printed in time for floor vote were rammed through a docile and Compliant 73RD Congress. Everything he asked for was given, with little or no debate.

    The first of the new deal statutes to reach the Supreme Court for review, arrived in January 1935. in the sixteen months following, The court decided ten major cases or groups of cases involving new deal statutes. In eight instances out of ten the decisions went in favor of the United States Constitution and against the new deal. Eight of the ten pieces of “must legislation” were found to be unconstitutional.

    The President reacted as one would after having received a kick in a sensitive area. He went to the american people with a fireside chat and stated

    “we have therefore, reached the point as a nation where we must take action to save the Constitution from the Court and the Court from itself.” (March 9,1937) [II [P.754]
    The President declared war on the Supreme Court.
    To appreciate the depth of FDR’s resolve in such issues, one need only read his correspondence to representative Snyder of Pennsylvania asking Congress to pass the national bituminous coal conservation act regardless of any doubts, “however reasonable,” that it might have about the bill’s Constitutionality. It appeared in this case at least, the President was urging Congress to disregard the Constitution. [2] [p.738]

    “In November 1936 the Democratic Party won an overwhelming victory at the polls. The election confirmed the Roosevelt administration in power and inspired the President to attempt a reorganization of the Judiciary in order to win control of that last remaining outpost of conservative Constitutionalism, the United States Supreme Court.” [2] [P.749]

    Constitutional historians refer to what happened next as the “Revolution of 1937.” The President proposed that for each sitting justice over the age of seventy there be appointed one new Justice to “help them with their case load.” In reality FDR wanted to pack the court with six additional justices willing to declare all of his “must legislation” Constitutional.

    Chief Justice Hughes was traumatized. He looked for a way to disengage the Presidents plan which appeared almost certain to pass both houses and be signed into law. What to do? What was about to happen would ultimately lead our country to the clear and present danger of economic insolvency.

    One observer noted “Hughes was profoundly convinced that what was at stake in the crises precipitated by the [Presidents] court plan was nothing less than the fate of the Supreme Court’s historic role as guardian of the Constitution.” He went on to state that What happened next was a “decision to retreat in the immediate skirmish in order to insure victory in the larger, struggle for judicial supremacy.” [3] CP.111)

    The supreme court at the time consisted of four conservatives, three liberals, one moderate, and one swing. The liberals were; Stone, Cardozo and Brandeis. The conservatives were: McReynolds, Sutherland, Butler, and Van Deventer. The moderate was Hughes. The swing was Roberts.

    Hughes prevailed on Roberts to desert the Conservative camp, swing over with him and join the three liberals in declaring the social security cases [Steward Machine Co. v. Davis (301 us 548, May 24, 1937)] Constitutional.[4] [P.56] This Roberts did, and by so doing, took the wind from the sails of the President’s court packing plan. It went back to committee and died. one Administration official called the court’s action, “the switch in time that saved nine.”

    This decision said in effect, Congress would no longer be held to enumerated powers but instead could tax and spend for anything; so long as it was for “general welfare.”

    But the words “General Welfare” in the introduction to the enumerated powers of Article I Section 8 were never intended to be an object for extension of the power to tax and spend; and up until the cases noted above, no court ever so averred.[Appx. 1]

    The supreme court surrendered to the new deal on the most fundamental of constitutional issues. “it is scarcely conceivable that Chief Justice Hughes and Justice Roberts… were unaware of the political implications of their move. the President had lost a battle but won a war. In a remarkable series of decisions . ..the Court executed the most abrupt change of face in its entire history…”-[2] [p.753-754]

    Justice Roberts, writing in 1951, said in effect:

    “We voted against the Constitution to save the Court.”

    His exact words were:
    Looking back it is difficult to see how the Court could have resisted the popular urge … an insistence by the Court on holding Federal power to what seemed its appropriate orbit when the Constitution was adopted might have resulted in even more radical changes to our dual structure than those which have gradually accomplished through the extension of limited jurisdiction conferred on the federal government. [3] [p.I13]
    His statement “limited jurisdiction”- “conferred on the federal government” is understandable only when one considers that very few “extensions” of “limited juribdiction” had been executed by Congress from the time of the great retreat decisions,[1937] Up to the year 1951. (The year Roberts book was published)

    Nothing much happened immediately after these decisions because of WW II; then post war reconstruction with a strong conservative Republican leadership under Bob Taft and a coalition of conservative democrats; then Korea; then the Eisenhower years; then Kennedy [who basically was a fiscal conservative]; then Dallas; then Lyndon B. Johnson and the Great Society, [1965] the arrival of which signaled the commencement of the full implementation of “Stewart Machine Co. v. Davis”–1937.

    Until this time, the American people’s demands on government were modest and for the most part the government lived within its means. But LBJ and his cohorts, both Democrat and moderate Republican, said in effect, “damn the enumerated powers, full speed ahead.” Something for everyone: spend now, pay later.

    As time went on elected representatives in washington found it virtually impossible to say no to constituent demands. Many of the demands were for good things. [It seemed so, if someone else paid the bill.] Most if not all of these things are best left to the states, regional authorities, voluntary agencies and, yes, families. [In terms of sheer economic efficiency, nothing in all of history ever equalled the family. Whatever happened to them?]

    Fifty legislative debates on the merits and uses of taxpayers dollars for local purposes is very healthy. Our founding fathers believed in the idea and we practiced it, almost perfectly until 1965. This gave great power and strength to our country. People retained more than 80% of their wages, whereas today they are left with less than 50% and many of us find ourselves reduced to asking the general government for this or that. “Give me, give me, give me.”

    Consider the national debt. Approaching five trillion dollars. How did this happen? A “General Welfare Congress” [session after session] made this happen. With no limits on their taxing and spending power, they became like children in a candy store.

    Study the national debt and mandatory program curves; they rise exponentially after the full implementation of the great society [APPX.2]. Both national parties must share blame for the enormous catastrophe befalling our country and its posterity.

    It’s really a “Catch 22″. You want to serve your country. To serve your country you must be in power [in Congress]. To be in power you must be re-elected. To be re-elected you must out promise your opponent. To out promise your opponent you must promise to spend for the “General Welfare.”
    And it goes on and on and on, forever, until one of three things happen:

    We adopt good moral sense and courage and say no to the inordinate demands of our constituents and the special interest groups.
    This will never happen. Congress prefers to possess the power to buy the allegiance of their constituents by providing for their “general welfare.” It is a payoff from organized government and “we the people” have been led to believe someone else will pay for it down the line. i.e. our children.
    Look at the behavior of the “new Congress”. Farm district Representatnes won’t give back on subsidies. Inner city Representatnes won’t give back on aid to teenage mothers. Defense industry Representatnes won’t give back on defense spending. The cotton and tobacco representatnes won’t give back on their subsidies. Good americans all. Some are signers of the contract for america. But they won’t give back a dime. They love the power.
    We need a Constitutional Amendment clearly defining just what they can tax and spend for. [Governments control people--constitutions control governments] and if we the people want them to keep all the power they now have, then so be it. we can join together, singing, “we don’t have to live in the future, our children do. We want ours and we want it now.”

    Our nation suffers an economic collapse and/or a total loss of freedom due to excessive taxation and national debt. This is why the balanced budget amendment is a danger. Congress will balance the budget on the backs of the american workers and entrepreneurs. Congress will not resist unlimited spending power. Why? Because it feels too good and they are spending other peoples money. Your money and my money. It’s painless when it’s not your money. And the nation as we know it today, will continue the ongoing surrender of individual and economic liberty to a form of government that can best be described as legislative despotism.

    Our newly-elected Representatives propose a Constitutional Amendment to the Several States for their consideration, which shall state that:
    The phrase “the Common Defense and the General Welfare” in Article I Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution are not grants of power but merely introductions to the enumerated powers concerning the common defense and the general welfare.
    That all powers seized and accrued to the federal government since the “revolution of 1937″ be submitted to the several states as part of this amendment and they as a whole shall vote up and down as to whether or not these seized powers should be returned to their rightful owners, i.e. the states or the people, or be added to the enumerations presently extant in Article I Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution.
    And that all future additions to those enumerated powers for taxing and spending found in Article I Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution be done as the founding fathers provided, by Amendment to the Constitution.
    In his farewell address, George Washington speaking on our dual federal system stated: “the spirit of encroachment tends to consolidate the powers…in one, and thus to create?, . . . a real despotism . *
    He went on to warn:

    Let there be no change in the constitution by usurpation; for though this, in one instance, may be the instrument of good, it is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed. [5] [P. 2241] For “customary weapon” read ” Stewart Machine Co. v Davis” (301 US 548) 1937.
    Presently our ship of state is aground on the shoals of uncertain centralism. At this very moment a great storm -and high tide of optimism have begun to shake her free; but any freedom will be short lived without an amendment enunciating clearly what the founding fathers intended:

    The General Welfare clause in Article I Section 8
    is an introduction to the enumerated powers that follow
    and not itself a grant of power.

    ——————————————————————————–

    CLOSING
    The limits on federal power to legislate for the “general welfare” remains, to this date, undefined and presumably, boundless
    The question that begs an answer is, “if the framers of our Constitution, who labored so resolutely in philadelphia that torridly hot summer in 1787 intended the powers of Congress to have no boundaries, why did they bother to enumerate seventeen?”

    James Madison, when asked if the “general welfare” clause was a grant of power, replied in 1792, in a letter to Henry Lee,

    If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once. [6] [p.257]

    ——————————————————————————–
    DEDICATION
    This effort is dedicated to the memory of my mother and father, and to all service men and women who gave their lives for the survival of our posterity.
    John W. Bugler
    Constitutional Awareness
    bugler@bugler.org

    REFERENCES
    Pusey, Merlo, J., Charles Evans Hughes [Vol.2] [Columbia University Press New York, 1963
    Kelly, A.H. and Harbison, W.A., The American Constitution - Its Origins and Development [W.W.Norton & Co. Inc. New York, 1948
    Mason, Alpheus, The Supreme Court from Taft to Warren [Louisiana State University Press: Baton Rouge, 1958]
    Krock, Arthur, The Consent of the Governed – And Other Deceits, [ Little, Brown and Company---Boston, Ma. 1971]
    Hickey, W., The Constitution of the United States of America, with Papers of George Washington. [Philadelphia, 1853] [Farewell Address of George Washington, President, to the people of the United States, September 17, 1796 ]
    Brant, Irving the Fourth President – A Life of James Madison [Eyre & Spottiswoode (Publishers) Ltd. London, 1970

    APPENDIX 1
    Article I, Section 8.
    The Congress shall have Power
    To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and General Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
    To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
    To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
    To promote the Progress of Sciencc and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
    To define and punish piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
    To provide and maintain a Navy;
    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, Dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings ;-And
    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, of in any department or Officer thereof.

    APPENDIX 2

    ADDENDUM

    • Riley

      Seriously?!?! Do you know anything, ANYTHING about U.S. history? From the get go ALL of the first four presidents (yes, Washington as well) appropriated funds to help widows, orphans and the disadvantaged. YOUR ideal for America? Sounds more like Somalia to me. Maybe the U.S. west in the 1800′s but at least there was a postal service! Please do some small amount of study and let go of your neo-con ways! It’s completely destroying everything this country can and should stand for…

      • Thamera

        Riley you are a moron.

        • DaveH

          I second that motion. A person doesn’t even have to be a history buff to have enough brains to know that none of the powers would need to be enumerated if the Federal Government had the “power” to provide for the General Welfare of the citizens. That power would cover everything else.
          Do you get the feeling, Thamera, that maybe it would be money well-spent to send these Liberals to some Logic classes?

          • Vigilant

            DaveH,

            When Riley says, “Please do some small amount of study and let go of your neo-con ways!” it’s obvious that all he did was a “small amount of study” period. His sources, I have no doubt, were of the type of revisionist BS you find in Howard Zinn’s “A People’s History of the USA,” a communist work.

            Riley’s ignorance stretches so far that he doesn’t know the meaning of the term “neo-con.” I have yet to find a neo-con posting on this site, have you?

          • Patty

            Dave- I don’t think that would do any good. I know people who supposedly have all if this education and not a like of common sense. You can’t teach that. You either have it or you don’t.

    • JIBBS

      Links are more useful, this is way to long………

  • Riley

    Does anyone her know anything about basic economics?!?!? (Mr. Murphy included.) No mention of our tariffs now hovering at 2% along with horrible trade agreements along with lowering taxes on the wealthy has created our situation – You conservative neo-cons have completely destroyed our economy and are doing your best to destroy our country!

    • Conservative at Birth

      I have studied economics for 50 years. Your ignorance is sad, to say the least. Look at the persistent high unemployment during the 1930′s and you will notice striking similiarities to todays situation. Socialism always fails and leads to Totalitarian rule. How many books have your read on the subject of economics? My guess is none.

    • DaveH

      You know what gets me? Our “basic economist” Riley just doesn’t get that the bigger our Government has gotten, the worse our economy has gotten. That is a fact, and only Liberals would advocate using more gasoline to put out a fire.
      Experience is the best teacher.
      For anybody who really wants to learn from experience how bigger Governments lead to smaller Economies, see here for a list of countries ranked on their level of economic freedeom (less regulations, less Government). Pick the country links to see how an individual country got their ranking:
      http://heritage.org/index/Ranking

    • Vigilant

      I’m actually enjoying these communist postings by Riley…every time he opens his maw her shows an abject ignorance/disregard for history.

      “Do you know anything, ANYTHING about U.S. history?…Does anyone her know anything about basic economics?!?!?” To here Riley tell it, he and he alone has cornered the market on some arcane and distorted version of history and economics.

      Then he blathers, “No mention of our tariffs now hovering at 2% along with horrible trade agreements along with lowering taxes on the wealthy has created our situation – You conservative neo-cons have completely destroyed our economy and are doing your best to destroy our country!”

      If ignorance is bliss, Riley is one happy dude. No, sonny, the wealthy pay 90+% of the taxes in this country, so your claims of tax lowering are bogus. Moreover, the US has the second highest corporate tax rate amongst the industrialized nations on the world (39.4% vs Japan’s 30.5%). The bucket you’re trying to carry that argument in is full of holes.

      Free markets and Capitalism have never in history destroyed any country. Our unequaled success in the world is attributable to capitalism and individual freedom. Socialism’s/communism’s abysmal record in destroying nations is well known. And it is precisely the fault of wealth redistribution that has caused the crisis in America, not Capitalism.

      Once again, you need to understand the meaning of the term “neo-con.” Until you do, your postings will continue to be uninformed and ludicrous.

      • Vigilant

        Make that “to hear Riley tell it,” not “here.”

        Brain farts happen now and again, function of age I guess.

    • JIBBS

      You are way out in space, you need to do some reading.

  • JR

    I wonder where all the jobs are that the Tax breaks for the upper income bracket was supposed to create? I wonder how most of the sheep feel about being had by the rich and they’re puppets in the government? It did not create the jobs they promised, neither did it create any jobs when Bush started the nonsense.
    And the excuse that it helped people keep jobs is unfunded and unproven.

    • Conservative at Birth

      What gives you the right to tax people and steal their assets? Your jealousy?

      • Thamera

        LOL good one conservative! JR I don’t know of any poor person that has ever employed anyone. Not all rich are BAD, nor are all corporations. While I might wish that I could get compensated like a CEO of a fortune 500 company for example, I certainly do not want to do what a CEO of that company has to do to get it. Maybe you should do a little research on the horrible rich that you have such hatred and contempt for and see what it actually takes to run a large corporation or even start a business for that matter!

      • Eddie47d

        What gives the wealthy the right to steal from this nation and then dumps it like a hot potato? Stop defending those million dollar salaries,those $100,000 bonuses,those 10 figure golden parachutes on top of lavish pension plans. Conservatives who defend their madness are also watching America’s decline. Flip that coin over and put their reckless behavior up there with the rest of the scams.

        • Cawmun Cents

          Yes by all means…make everyone equally wealthy…that system always seems to work out for the better…..

          • Vigilant

            As you know, wealth redistribution makes everyone poor. The leftists aren’t there yet, but they’re trying like hell to bring everyone down.

          • Eddie47d

            Vigilant; What does wealth distribution have to do with the likes of Enron or Lehman Brothers? No one should want someone elses honest wage but their wages weren’t fair or honest.You’re to hooked on attacking “leftists” and can’t see the forest through the trees.

          • Vigilant

            Eddie, do you ever read my responses to your postings? I’ve told you and others on more than one occasion the following. Please read it this time:

            “You should never hear a Conservative laud the success of a capitalist who has become rich through unethical, deceptive or criminal practices. There is not, nor should there be, any sympathy for these leeches. They deserve stiff fines and jail time.”

            Now when I say that, why does it not sink in with you? Why do you continually try to make out conservatives to be defenders of the management of ENRON, Worldcom and other criminals who do in fact “steal” from the people?

            As for the salaries of CEOs, CFOs, etc., two things apply: first, the sum total of all corporate officer salaries is a tiny, tiny percentage of the trillions in business capital. Secondly, the Corp. can control these salaries and bonuses, or they can get rid of them any time they want to.

            Carping about corporate benefits is as useful as complaining about foreign aid: they are both veritable drops in the bucket, and we have much higher priorities to worry about than that.

          • Eddie47d

            You like to say all unions are bad and ignore the good they have done. You and others label them with numerous names and call yourself fair and honest. I have stated that there are good companies who are honest so maybe we both don’t pay attention to each others comments.Corporate salaries do effect a companies bottom line. I bet his $5 million dollar effects payroll more than his employees $80,000 paycheck.

          • Vigilant

            Now Eddie, it’s been just within the last couple of days that I said unions did some good in their day. The problem is, they went far beyond their initial good, and now are no better than leeches. They are special interest groups, with BIG ties to the Democrats and all the corruption that leads to.

        • Patty

          Eddie – Except for the million dollar salaries, I was thinking you were talking about our congress people. They just do it through the back door with their bennies and retirement packages. Taling about “golden parachutes” they have voted themselves great ones.

        • JIBBS

          Hmm, what gave unions the right to steal?, YOU were in a union, do you feel bad? I bet not, maybe you were paid to much for what you did!

    • DaveH

      What tax breaks, JR? You mean when the Government takes less from the Golden Geese? Ah, the politics of envy. What would we do without Greedy, Thieving Liberals? Maybe be happy?
      Here’s some reality:
      http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

    • Vigilant

      JR says, “I wonder where all the jobs are that the Tax breaks for the upper income bracket was supposed to create?”

      90+% of the taxes paid in this country are paid by the wealthy. What percentage would you suggest? 95%? 100%?

      BTW what the hell is an “unfunded” excuse?

    • Patty

      Jr-The only jobs that were “saved” were gov’t. union jobs. And the ones who make jobs (like me) are waiting for them to figure out a plan past 3 months of extending the budget. I can’t even think of hiring someone new when I don’t know (they don’t know) what the “rules” are going to be from day to day.

  • PhilaMike

    Harry, well said. We don’t create “Wealth” any more ’cause we don’t Make anything anymore.I remember the 50s too, people made clothing in Philadelphia which boasted being “The Clothing Capital of the World”, workers earned enough to buy their own houses, feed and clothe their families and were able to save for the future. They did all this by working “Piece Work” earning 50 cents for each garment worked on. The harder you worked the more you made. The buildings are now empty and abandoned and employ no one. Thousands used to work there.The City no longer collects taxes or revenue and is also in decline. Manufacturing is based on “Direct Labor” verses “Overhead”, Government jobs produce NOTHING and are pure OVERHEAD. What company would have 5 workers who produce and 100 managers and secretaries ? Only the government does not understand this. More government workers are just more “Overhead”.

    • Vigilant

      I was surprised, as Rush was, when he said we were still number one in the world for manufacturing. Check out http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-the-top-manufacturing-countries.htm

      “The world’s top manufacturing country is the United States, as has been the case since before WWII. In 2007, the United States’ manufacturing output was $1.831 trillion US Dollars (USD). This is about 12% of the USA’s entire GDP (Gross Domestic Product), or $12,206 USD for every person in the 150 million-strong labor force.

      “Still, the USA’s output per capita is not the world’s greatest among manufacturing countries — that honor goes to Japan. Important goods manufactured in the United States include, in order of percentage of exports in 2007: production machinery and equipment, 31.4%; industrial supplies, 27.5%; non-auto consumer goods, 12.7%; motor vehicles and parts, 10.5%; aircraft and parts, 7.6%; food, feed and beverages, and 7.3%; and other, 3.0%.”

  • bob wire

    Excellent attempt to frame the issue of unemployment Robert.

    I have be unemployed since 1978, basically struck out on my own.

    I can’t help but think, more people need to do likewise.

    Quite looking for employment and create your own employment.

    I would not say that it is easy, and I have lost a wife and family in the process, ( she just didn’t have the nerves of steel that it took during the hard time) but if you hone your professional skills and refuse to give in, refuse to bow down, refuse to quit, you can make it own your own.

    It’s been chicken or feathers from day one and you learn to love it.

    Find a “need” and fill it.

    bb

    • DaveH

      Wow, Bob. Wise words. I didn’t know you had it in you.

      • Patty

        Have you noticed that Eddie and Bob Wire seem to have changed their tune over these posts?

    • Vigilant

      bob wire,

      I’ve admired your spirit in the past, and I still do. We don’t usually agree on a political level, but your drive and “stick-to-it-iveness” is what made this country great, and you are to be commended.

      Too many give up and learn to keep accepting government largesse long after they truly need it, because it’s the lazy and selfish thing to do.

  • http://anonymous jose

    Simple. Most problems in so called decadent societies are internal. You have not mentioned outsourcing; but this will bring inflation to the nations benefited. namely the
    asian low wage nations. ‘everything will be seeking its own level and in the end no one benefits.
    tje problem is the parasytic politicians and their masters. you have heard of the word plutocracy, autocracy; economic dictatorship. In the end nations have gov.ts they deserve. The electorate votes for benefits. benefits cause dependency. The more liar the politician the more votes he gets. Ao you see the results.
    The worst enemy is your own blindness and denial of facts.

  • DaveH

    At least one thing Robert left out is the fact that employers must very carefully scrutinize their applicants these days as a result of the possibly large lawsuits that can result from various “protected” classes of people (including so-called “wrongful firings” after being hired). This hurts a lot of people who might be good workers, but are not good salespeople (for themselves) and thus find it very difficult to get a chance to prove themselves in the actual workplace.
    Without all those supposed “protections” and other Government-promoted disincentives (e.g. expensive benefit packages), the companies could easily fire the new employees after a trial period, thus giving many more people a chance to prove themselves in actual working conditions, and shortening the time and expense that both parties must endure in the current day hiring process.
    Without Government involvement in the hiring and firing process, people who have screwed up in the past would also be much more likely to get a chance to change their ways (turn over a new leaf) with a new job situation.
    As usual, Government is the Problem, Not the Solution.

    • newspooner

      Excellent point, as usual.

  • Mick

    I have known a lot of people making excellent money but not many saving for rainy days, many should have made extra payments on their house to get rid of their mortgage but buying expensive new cars and every electronic gadgets on the market, eating out everyday and trying to impress friends and neighbors was their priorities and now are crying foul.
    I am sorry for some of the folks,unfortunate circumstances got in the way but many of us had to deal with the same fate.
    We ate a lot of noodles and eggs for many years while watching the welfare recipients eat T-bones and filet mignon to advance and make extra payments on our house allowing us to pay a 30 years mortgage in 7 years , we drove 10 years old cars and I cooked, we made the roof over our head a priority and after depriving ourselves for so many years I am supposed to pay more taxes to bail out the irresponsible?
    Something is really wrong with America when responsible citizens get penalized for the people not giving a Sh-t…

    • Thamera

      Exactly Mick, and the govt. has been way to loose with other people’s money without even knowing where that money is going or being accountable for it. It is a ridiculous, bloated, wasteful system rife with corruption and fraud and very easy to manipulate and abuse. LMAO! JR – you doubt me and post from the doctor above – spend one day with me or ANY doctor for that matter and you will be changing your tune.

    • Carlucci

      Right on, Mick. My late husband and I did pretty much the same thing.
      We could have moved up and bought a bigger and newer home, but we really couldn’t see the point once we realized we weren’t out to impress anyone, we loved our neighbors and neighborhood, and the home we had was just fine. We also drove our cars for at least ten years. I’ve never been a fan of eating out, ever since I waited tables when I was in college and was appalled at the filthy state of the kitchen, and the fact that none of the workers (except for me) washed their hands on a regular basis.

      I feel blessed having the basics, and am doing my best to prepare for the worst.

  • Donald

    A couple of things need to be mentioned. First American workers can easily be replaced by foreign workers since it costs much less to hire overseas than it does here. So, aside from jobs that have to be performed locally, like janitors, garbage collectors, and street cleaners their is no incentive to hire American workers.

    The Austrian “solution”, boom and bust, allows just for things to work themselves out. It assumes that nothing can be done until the economy hits rock bottom and the quickest way there is to let wages fall starvation to levels at which point the economy will magically rise from the ashes. The “recovery” will come about faster if there is no unemployment compensation and no food stamps.

    In the long run everthing will shake out and return to normal. As Keynes has wisely observed: “In the long run we’re all dead.”

    The Mises theory assumes that economics is beyond human control and that we are all helpless. I find it hard to imagine that humans are incapable of devising an economic system that can’t do better than that. If not, the middle class is long gone and we will all be working at subsistence levels.

    Even Henry Ford recognized the need to pay wages sufficiently high that his workers could afford to buy his cars.

    • Carlucci

      That sounds more like Keynesian economics. Austrian economics is based on free enterprise, free markets, and total capitalism, with virtually no government intervention, welfare, handouts, or entitlements.

      • Donald

        That’s true, but it also has no way out of depression. It just lets everything go down the tubes. That’s economic anarchy.

        • DaveH

          Sorry, Donald, you and Keynes are wrong, Mises is right.
          Before the Federal Reserve came along and before the pump-priming of Keynes was accepted as gospel, there were recessions but they were short lived, as the Free Markets, unencumbered by the politics of Government, would deal with the excesses in the most efficient way possible. There is nothing like the efficiencies that result when people are risking their own money.
          The Federal Reserve, in fact, was supposed to end the boom and bust cycle. So what happened? Less than 20 years after the Federal Reserve was created, we had the Great Depression which lasted more than 10 years. So much for taming the boom and bust cycle. And now, with Government twice as big as it was in 1950, we have the current economic mess.
          It really doesn’t take a Rocket Scientist, or even an expert economist to figure out that if Government Spending created a good economy, there would be no bad economies. There would be no poor countries. Any ignorant politician can spend money.
          Why is it that even in the face of hard evidence, the Liberals still embrace failed theories? Could it be that they are blinded to reality by the radiant vision of that trough?

          • DaveH

            In my book, there are two major kinds of Economists. The Real Economists (like Ludwig Von Mises) who seek knowledge about what really drives an economy, and the Political Economists (like John Maynard Keynes) who seek sweet-sounding explanations to provide cover for their Politician hosts.

      • Eddie47d

        There is no such thing as total capitalism for capitalism also corrupts itself. It eats itself at the expense of others and there are not enough honest capitalists to stop the others from doing so. Like government, it also gets too big for it’s britches.

        • DaveH

          Eddie,
          there will always be crooks. In a Capitalist system, they are on the wrong side of the law. In a Socialist system, they are the law.

      • Vigilant

        Carlucci, you’re right.

        No government has tried a “pure” Keynesian economic fiscal and monetary policy. The few times it was partly tried, the Great Depression, for example, it served to lengthen and deepen the recession.

        In Austrian economics, an unfettered free market will still have peaks and valleys, but they will be neither as high and deep nor as long lasting as when government tries to interfere with the process.

        Keynes’ theories have been pretty well discredited over time, but they continue to be applied since gov’t uses it as a tool to create dependencies and consolidate its power.

    • s c

      Donald, your attempt to mislead and dumb-down failed [Robert Murphy needs to get in on this response]. YOU, mack, have NO clue when it comes to quick definitions of economic theories.
      Your understanding of von Mises is ass-backward. Keynes was a poser and a loser who was backed by progressives and career politicians who were told to “back” his insanity so FDR could get easy votes and increase his odds of screwing-up America for generations to come. Marx was “groomed” the SAME way as Keynes.
      Burn those damned books you use for reference, and tell your friends to burn their high school diplomas that they ‘earned’ the same way Obummer
      ‘earned’ a Nobel Peace Prize.

      • Donald

        You don’t ay where I’m wrong.

        • Vigilant

          s c is correct, although he responds bluntly (:-)

          “The Mises theory assumes that economics is beyond human control and that we are all helpless. I find it hard to imagine that humans are incapable of devising an economic system that can’t do better than that.”

          Alas, we are indeed incapable of such a feat, and for good reason.

          In a free market, literally billions of decisions are made on a daily basis as people buy and sell. It is not beyond human control to force changes, but the changes tried over the decades have served only to screw things up, not make them better.

          A good example was when Nixon imposed wage and price controls, a thoroughly socialistic measure. The intent was to get a handle on inflation, and it failed miserably because the “ghost” inflation curve behind the imposed flatline continued to rise without regard for government measures. When the controls were removed, inflation “jumped” to what it would have been anyways, but in a very short period of time.

          With the exception of REASONABLE corporate regulation to prevent fraud and ensure safety and competetiveness, the government has no business whatsoever meddling with the free markets.

          • DaveH

            Very good, Vigilant.
            I would add that price controls result in shoddier goods and more scarce goods as the incentive is removed for production. And then the next step as the level of goods decreases is rationing in which case who gets the goods becomes a matter of chance or politics rather than who works the hardest and is willing to pay the most for those scarce goods.

          • justchimingin

            Vigilant wrote, “With the exception of REASONABLE corporate regulation to prevent fraud and ensure safety and competetiveness, the government has no business whatsoever meddling with the free markets.”
            I feel this is a very important point, one that I feel many fellow citizens simply assume to be a current standard in place, that is not. Is the market truely ‘free’ when it is controlled and manipulated by the largest players in order to fend off competition and entrap consumers? If that’s your idea of a ‘free’ market then I suggest you have not given the matter much thought at all. How are we to sustain any free market if the labor force/consumers are in effect reduced to what amounts to either slave labor or indentured servitude?
            Further, I certainly do not condone abuse of the current social welfare system, but I do wish to add to the discussion on this thread by pointing out, that Social Security is in fact an insurance/retirement plan that the majority of recipients have paid into. So many of the arguments about people on the dole taking away from other tax payers is baseless. What opponents like to call a ‘benefit’ is in reality the payout from an insurance policy. Don’t believe me? Don’t pay enough in for just one fiscal quarter over the last five years and then attempt an application. You will be denied for not having paid enough premium. Unlike some commercial disability policies though, you will not have your premiums returned to you.
            Like someone said earlier in this thread, “knowledge is power”. My suspicion is that what is going on in the media regarding social programs is nothing other than a shellgame tactic, to turn attention away from the need to do exactly what Vigilant has pointed out in my very first paragraph.

        • Vigilant

          DaveH,

          Excellent points!

    • Paul Anthony

      The whole TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH! It never ceases to amaze me how so many politicians, economists and analysists deliberate (ad nauseum) over what we need to do to create millions of new jobs. WAKE UP AMERICA! Those jobs are gone forever and they’re not coming back…PERIOD! After the economic bubble popped back in 2007, corporations from all industrial sectors discovered how to maintain high profitability by operating on much lower, leaner budgets and considerably smaller payrolls. Now that many of these companies have clawed and crawled their way back to respectability (many just treading water), do you think that any of them want to regress back to those perilous, uncharted times? I don’t think so! Simply put – there is sadly no motivation or justifcation to do so. Doesn’t matter what Obama wants or Bernanke thinks …. job creation is a thing of the past. As proud Americans, we will just have to creatively find new and different ways to survive and support our families in this extremely competitive global market. NEW VISION – yes! UNEMPLOYMENT – no!

      • DaveH

        I beg to differ, Paul. We could recover back to prosperity almost overnight if we could get the Governments (at all levels) back to the kind of freedom our ancestors enjoyed over a hundred years ago. Ideally Government should spend less than 15% of the GDP compared to 40% today. Would that be best for the people in Government? Of course not. But it would be best for our country.

        • Paul Anthony

          Dave, your theory of the government reducing spending from 40% to 15% is quite admirable but the practicality of that ever happening just “stinks!” Like I said, these millions of lost jobs are absolutely gone forever. By the way, why don’t you buy my house if you have such quick fixes for our economic meltdown?

          • DaveH

            Paul,
            I said “if we could”. I realize that there are too many people feeding at the trough to do that easily. But it is possible that people could wake up and embrace Freedom again as our Forefathers did.
            In order to travel to any destination, you first must point your vehicle in the right direction.

          • DaveH

            By the way, I don’t want your house. I’m at enough risk trying to keep my own.

          • Patty

            Try taking in renters to defray costs.

  • Bob

    We have lost millions of jobs to other countries overseas. Why? I have heard several CEOs of large companies state that it is because of high taxes (we will soon have the highest corporate tax rates in the world) and regulatory burdens. The amount of unnecessary paperwork is staggering. American workers can be some of the most productive in the world, but our government is stopping them with the highest taxes in the world and mindless regulations.

    A study was done by Princeton asking 500 of the largest companies in Europe and Japan what they would do when the US enacts the Fairtax, About 400 said they would build their next manufacturing plant in the US and the rest said they would move their entire operations here. Why in the world would we keep this insane unconstitutional tax code in place when all income classes would benefit under the constitutional Fairtax?

    • texastwin827

      Bob, we keep it “in place” because the very rich benefit from it. Unlike the everyday person, they have tax breaks and loopholes established that they can use, because of their wealth. I worked at a CPA firm for years and would often see John Doe pay more in taxes, on a fraction of the income of a wealthy taxpayer.

      Not all of the jobs being shipped overseas are because of “high taxes”. These corporations make more money using cheap labor in a 3rd world country, then bringing it back into the US (usually with no duties or taxes assessed) and still sell it for almost what they would sell it, if US workers were making it. The big difference is, IF US workers were making it, there would be more available income for them to spend. It will evenutally bite them in the b*tt (although they likely are so wealthy now, they would be uneffected) because when you put a large number of Americans out of work, you have fewer people to buy your goods.

      That worker in the 3rd world country is just happy to have more income than he every had, before, so he sure doesn’t blow it on the very goods he makes!

      The ultimate goal of the corporate world (and the politicians they have bought & paid for) is to have NO middle class. Poor people are easier to control than those who have a good income.

      • Thamera

        Just one question: If everyone is poor, how does that benefit a corporation who relies on the consumer to purchase their service and/or product? While I agree that power and control of the masses seems to be the optimal goal of the government, it doesn’t exactly meet the goals of a corporation who rely on consumers with resources to keep them in business.

        • Eddie47d

          Good point Texas. Also that is not the way the world works anymore Thamera,cheap labor is the name of the game. Corporations will send there jobs and infrastructure overseas and sell their “new” product to the host country. They no longer need America to sell their products when they can sell those products in bulk to the locals. Money is money to them no matter who buys. That is why China is booming and their citizens are also buying their own cheap goods. None of this looks good for the US workers.

        • Vigilant

          Thank you Thamera, I’ve been trying to make that point but few seem to listen. Capitalism thrives on both orderly markets and a consumer class. Without it, capitalism fails.

          The size of the middle class has always been an indicator of a nation’s economic power. For profit business facilitates the growth of the middle class by employing and paying people who consume. The principles of vested self-interest and entrepreneurship are satisfied by capitalism as no other economic system can even dream of. It’s what made us a great nation.

          This is the main reason that I treat with skepticism all the New World Order theories of a cabal of Doctor Evils trying to take over the world. To hear the theorists tell it, the NWO folks want to reduce the size of the world middle class, creating some rich man-poor man scenario where they (NWO demons) live at the top.

          Now I happen to believe that bankers and corporate interests are very smart people, too smart to kill off the very consumers of their products and thereby throw us back into some medieval age of serfdom and lords of the manor. I’m sure I’ll get a number of responses on this, but that’s where my logical mind takes me.

          • Carlucci

            Vigilant, I love your logical mind and I sure hope you are right.

          • Vigilant

            Why thank you Dear!

          • justchimingin

            Well you lost me on this point. I think the ‘smarts’ of those bankers extends about as far as the quarterly report. I might agree with you if perhaps the CEO of lets say Bank of America was a private owner with tangible risk to himself and his progeny. Considering his enumeration is based on short term results, and recent events… and history frankly, its more likely their ethics and practices aren’t as shiny as their publicity/propaganda machine would have us believe.

          • Vigilant

            justchimingin,

            You have some good points. There certainly seem to be more bad players out there than there used to be. The Fannie/Freddy/Wall Street debacle shows what can happen when vested self-interest is replaced by pure greed and unethical practices. The mortgage bubble and resultant speculation in “toxic” derivatives were examples of unbridled gambling for short term gain.

            The NWO theorists would have seen a hidden purpose in this as well. They would say that it was purposeful disruption of orderly markets to achieve a nefarious end. I don’t believe that. For my money, that was a matter of (1) misguided socialist thinking that made mortgages available to people who could never afford them, and (2) greedy opportunism on the part of financial managers who threw caution to the wind in search of quick profits. Those from whom we traditionally expected to exercise prudent investment practices became mere gamblers in the Wall Street casino, and we all lost.

      • Bob

        It is the high taxes AND the over-burdensome regulations that drive jobs overseas.

        Under the Fairtax ALL income classes benefit.

        Stop the class warfare garbage. We need rich people. They start corporations that employ people. They make money when they provide a product or service that people want and do it better than the next company. The greedy people are the ones who expect a pay raise for no production increase.

        Gosh I hate the class warfare venom spewed by the left with its lies and distortions.

        • DaveH

          Bob,
          The Fair Tax would be just as burdonsome as the Income Tax. The burdon would just be carried by a different set of citizens (the retailers).
          Our form of taxation isn’t the problem (although I do Hate Income Taxes). It’s the Government Spending that is the major problem.
          I too would like to get rid of the Income Tax System, but let’s replace it with a truly “fair” system where we all pay equally for what we get. Every citizen should have skin in the game or they shouldn’t be able to vote for how that money is spent.

          • Bob

            Actually the Fairtax would be far less burdensome for the retailers. The rest of us would not ever deal with the tax compliance. It would save hundreds of billions of dollars per year in compliance costs. The economy would grow by a minimum of 10% the first year according to every study done. Every income class would come out ahead.

            I fully agree that the biggest problem is the size and scope of the federal government. That is what will bankrupt the US.

          • DaveH
        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Bob… I agree! The IRS needs to be abolished and the Fair Tax enacted. It is FAIR!

      • DaveH

        I hate Income Taxes. But the rich benefit from them? That is so Not True.
        These figures are taken from actual taxes paid to the IRS (no friend of tax fighters) and after the “loopholes”:
        http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

        Keep in mind that the vast majority of “loopholes” result in tax-deferral, not tax avoidance.

        I sure grow weary of the Class Envy that is promoted by Liberals.

        • Paul Anthony

          Dave, I love your logic but I’m still waiting for you to buy my house!

          • DaveH

            You know, I was told by a finance teacher once that one of the biggest mistakes the average person makes is to turn down an offer without hearing all the terms. People typically think that if something was a good deal the seller would keep it for himself.
            And that is just one aspect of human thinking that keeps most of us from becoming wealthy.

          • Patty

            Paul – I know someone who buys “Ugly Houses” would it qualify?

          • Patty

            Paul – Is it up to Section 8 standards to rent?

  • http://www.patrickscashcafe.com patrick

    One thing I have not seen mentioned here is the problem I have. I have had a medical issue for 3 years. I have not found any employers that will hire a person in his 50′s with a heart issue. Add to that, I had a income in the $40k’s. Now I am looking to start out on my own business.

    How can anyone think that more government is the answer? They are the ones with their elitist cronies manipulating the market with no success for the workers. I can only and pray the American people wake up soon.

    • DaveH

      Right on, Patrick. We can thank Government meddling in the workplace for any difficulty we have seeking employment at our age.
      One potential employer had the nerve (and honesty) to tell me that, at my age, I was just too big a risk (liability, etc.) for him to take.

      • Patty

        Dave-I have heard that employers are sick and tired of the lazy entitlement young generation and are only hiring “adults” now. Don’t give up hope.

  • Raggs

    Why is unemployment so high?

    One word…. Regulations.

    • Cawmun Cents

      You wont often hear me saying this to Raggs,but I agree.We have created too many laws……period.

    • justchimingin

      OK…. which regulatory legislation cost us jobs? Pretty sure NAFTA (which only benefited the largest of US Corporations) cost WAY more job loses…. or; job losses caused by illegal immigration, cost WAY more job losses both directly and by effectively lowering wages to industry killing levels than a piece of legislation intended to protect citizens from abuse have EVER done!
      You are advocating your own demise, and advocating ‘for’ things like rediculously high interest rates, blue sky ponzi wall street capers, unbalanced and unfair contracts, and large corporations running rough shod over democracy, yourself and your neighbors……don’t do that! Please!
      Sure, big bloated and inefficient govt. is NOT the answer, on that we can surely agree. Regulations written to serve only special interest groups are bad, on that we can surely agree. Some regulations protect our nations drinking water from folks dumping toxic chemicals, should those be eliminated? Come on now? All I’m asking is that before you start espousing a special interest’s talking point that you stand back for a sec and think about it.

      • Patty

        I think we should start an underground work force.

  • Mick

    Carlucci says:
    March 24, 2011 at 10:00 am
    Right on, Mick. My late husband and I did pretty much the same thing.
    We could have moved up and bought a bigger and newer home, but we really couldn’t see the point once we realized we weren’t out to impress anyone, we loved our neighbors and neighborhood, and the home we had was just fine. We also drove our cars for at least ten years. I’ve never been a fan of eating out, ever since I waited tables when I was in college and was appalled at the filthy state of the kitchen, and the fact that none of the workers (except for me) washed their hands on a regular basis.

    I feel blessed having the basics, and am doing my best to prepare for the worst.
    ***************************************
    Carlucci,,,That’s one of the big problem we have, no more basics..
    Instant gratification has been implanted if the minds of the past generation and by the same token the new generation doesn’t know any different,
    Or we try to teach moderation to our kids or things will get so bad that moderation ( Or nothing ) will be the only thing left. Not exactly what people have in my for their offsprings…Wake up…..

    • Carlucci

      Well, I never had any children, so I don’t have a point of reference like parents do.

      • Mick

        Carlucci says:
        March 24, 2011 at 10:18 am
        Well, I never had any children, so I don’t have a point of reference like parents do.

        *****************************************
        Carlucci,,,,Nothing wrong with not having any children, the more I look at the way things are now days, I would dare say it’s a good thing and don’t worry about the parents point of reference anymore, the government takes care of that, not the parents.

    • Thamera

      classic example: here’s a family, generational welfare recipients whose 16 year old daughter just had a baby. The comment from her teenage brother was to ask his dad (mother is in jail for substance abuse) now that his sister had the baby when they get more money (from the govt) can they get a new flat screen TV? You can bet every teenager has their toys. They really think they are a necessity. Now that is pathetic.

      • Eddie47d

        Agreed.

      • 45caliber

        Babies are money to those on welfare. At least up to No. 8. After that they get no more money. On the other hand, the government refuses to let women with less than three kids on welfare to have her tubes tied. They want at LEAST 3 kids per woman.

        I would like to see Welfare modified (at least – prefer it was cut) so that any woman who receives welfare can NOT have more money for any new child. Instead, they are paid $10 a month extra to NOT have another child. If they have one, instead of getting more money they lose that $10. I think you’d see a lot fewer babies born on welfare.

        • Patty

          That’s not a bad idea. Actually, you could more than double that and we would all still be ahead. Sounds kind of like paying the farmers to not plant…..

  • http://? jacob

    The solution to unemployment is an easy one :

    Bring back the scarce as hen teeth “MADE IN USA” tag, totally
    replaced by the MADE IN CHINA one, plus forcing all companies
    doing business in the USA to bring back the jobs they exported
    or else do business elsewhere but good old USA…

    But this requires a government with “cojones” which is not the
    “Trade Mark” of any of the establishment political parties…

    Just as simple as that and I don’t believe requires Chicago
    School economists to implement…

    Just call an ace an ace and a spade a spade.

    PERIOD

    • Bob

      You can’t force companies to hire anymore than you can force someone to take a job for $4.00 an hour. The two reasons why we have such high unemployment are 1) extremely high regulations on employers 2) soon to be the highest corporate tax in the world.

      You wouldn’t want to work for $4.00 an hour. Employers don’t want to hire with those penalties against them.

      • 45caliber

        The real cost of an employee is not just what you pay him. It is also costs of benefits and the regulations you have to follow. And as long as the company (large or small) has to pay more than they can afford to meet regulations they don’t have enough to pay new employees.

        • DaveH

          I had a buddy who bought a motel and was informed a few weeks later by a government official that if he didn’t start paying Workman’s Comp they would shut him down. There it is in a nutshell. They care so “much” for those employees that they are willing to shut down their source of livihood.

          • Patty

            Dave H – From personal experience, not only will they shut you down, but they will pierce your “corporate veil” and go after you personally.

    • texastwin827

      Jacob, the problem with being able to do that is

      1) The corporations will fight it vigoursly (and the politicians that are bought & paid for, by them will listen to them, not us)

      2) Convincing the young people that we are right. Most have always lived in an America as it is today and have been taught that “isolationism” is bad for the US. The only people it is bad for are the corporate leeches.

    • 45caliber

      jacob:

      The liberals are certain that we need to help the rest of the world grow to our own way of life. A One World government won’t work if one part if progressive and modern and another is still primitive. If you bring back America and cut back on what we buy from China, you might cause China problems. Horrors! Are you ready to do that to them?

  • Howard Roark

    A Self evident truth:
    If you look all around the world observing economic conditions Hong Kong (which is kind of lile a small country) has the least amount of government interferance and it also has the highest standard of living. not bad considering that they have no natural resources.

    • Carlucci

      Howard, I agree. Hong Kong is an awesome place. I visited several times before the British handed it back to the Chinese. I’ve heard that the Chinese government has pretty much left it alone.

      • Eddie47d

        Yes but they had that same high standard long before communism took over and many years after. They are a city in the right place no matter what time it is. The mainland has greatly benefited from their influence and learned to adapt to Hong Kong ways.

        • Vigilant

          As Howard said, Eddie, Hong Kong “has the least amount of government interference.”

          Shouldn’t that tell us all something?

    • 45caliber

      China was glad to get Hong Kong back because of the tax base there. But before they got it, they had a lot of talks with the people who lived there. They finally had to agree to leave it alone if they wanted the money. Money talks, even to Communists.

      • DaveH

        I think the acquisition of Hong Kong by China is also what drove China to loosen up controls on their own businesses.

  • Bert Cundle

    Well: In My View As An Unemployed ( Retiree ) Male 40 Years in the labor Union… A.F.of L. / C.I.O. The Government Screwed us!Politicans Found more $ for their Goals, by Joining other Countries in the 1 World Government! Not our own. Sure: Tech. jobs (Robotics) replaced, the Skiled worker! Sure We sent tools over seas for other Countries (to make parts) & Ship them back. Than the Government Let Forign Businesses & Manafactures, to Build their Plants On OUR Property! In flux of many Foeigners is Killing U.S.! Elegal & Legal!!!

    • Bert Cundle

      GOVERNMENT has gone UNION BUSTING!

      • Mick

        Bert Cundle says:
        March 24, 2011 at 10:50 am
        GOVERNMENT has gone UNION BUSTING!
        &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
        Bert ….

        What the hell took them SO LONG ????????????

        • Bert Cundle

          Doing the Wrong thing; use to be harder to do…

          • DaveH

            What is wrong, Bert, is forcing people to do things they don’t want to do with their own money and property. That pretty much covers both Government and Unions.

      • Vigilant

        Bert says, “GOVERNMENT has gone UNION BUSTING!”

        Another good reason to abide by the Constitution and let the states run the show.

        • Bert Cundle

          200 More Boarders to patrol… Check points… Mo’ jobs?

  • ted zedek

    There are two solutions for unemployment – 1)Bring back the 5 million
    jobs corporateists sent overseas to be performed by slave labor, and
    2) Since Republicans consider the defensed budget untouchable,
    induct every jobless person into the military. That way the corps of engineers could take over all infrastructure work, we could replace all those high-priced contractors who make at least $100,000 a year with people who’d settle for $30,000, we could build up our border security, and we could save on welfare costs because they’d be on the sacrosanct defense budget.

    • 45caliber

      But the libs want to cut the military, not strengthen it! They don’t trust the military. That’s one main reason that the wars are still going on. It keeps the military out of the U.S.

    • DaveH

      Those jobs overseas aren’t being performed by slave labor. They are being performed by people glad to make a living and achieve a better life. Unlike the spoiled American Liberals that have driven our companies overseas.

  • Howard R Gray

    However you see it unemployment is bad. How bad is it? Review John William’s site St (www.shadowstats.com/) for the lowdown. No I don’t get a kick back for recommending him, like Robert Murphy, who quotes the site in his article, there are some web sites out there that let you know what the truth might be.

    The majority of the population expect a J.O.B. nothing wrong in that, but there is something wrong in the government favoring employment over self employment. Jobs are evaporating for a number of reasons. This government is anti wealth creation and anti self employment for one reason and all the other reasons Robert Murphy posits in his article.

    There is a dire need for work however it is to be had. Given the high costs of living in an advanced economy there is no point is recommending a basic wage as a solution unless there are prospects of advancement to higher earnings.

    This toxic government is about to usher in healthcare costs beyond the means of the state, most corporations, and the individual. Nice one guys! Why bother with legislation that is so vast and byzantine that no one understands it, much like the tax code. Government is transitioning to a state of insufficiency that it cannot function.

    The representative part (Congress and State Legislatures) is dysfunctional it doesn’t even read and debate the big bills any more. It is highly unlikely that the Republicans will do much beyond barking on the sidelines.

    The unelected, neither civil or servile, part is out of control and largely beyond oversight which leads one to suspect that spontaneous destruction is very probably the only outcome to all of this. Whole parts of the law are set aside as politically irrelevant, immigration and borders, election laws and the like. Cherry picking enforcement on the one hand and absurd prosecution on the other is becoming the norm, Bernie Madoff is sent to prison for embezzlement of life savings and the government, both its watchdogs, and the big spenders, get off scot free. If we descend into a Weimar currency melt down who is going to prison for it? No one will ever be held responsible for any of it ever.

    Self employment isn’t easy it should be; only new business will create wealth or pay wages over and above subsistence. There is real cause for concern we are in a double dip recession and we may be progressing to the European stagnant economic reality. Progressives are regressive, they have no clue about wealth to them it is something to be redistributed. When one of their homes is burgled do they see that as redistribution of wealth or theft?

  • http://att gary bruce

    I have been out of work since dec. of 2008. I tried hard to get a similiar job for a long time cause i enjoyed my line of work. But my line of work as an tech. eng. is on the back burner because of the economy.My unemployment quit paying out in oct. of 2010 because of the 93 weeks limit.And thats why i`m not looking like i was.you all claim unemployment is down because claims are down but people like me are not even considered.And i`m not alone.I`m also 61 years old and not interested in going back to school or changing my job skills. I`ve already changed my job skills three times.My ira is gone and my savings is dwindling.I would have worked a few more years but ….

    • 45caliber

      The government keeps telling us to go back to school and change our profession because it puts us back at the bottom of the pay scale. I pray that you and others like you will be able to find a job soon.

      • Patty

        45- Do you sometimes think they are pushing the schooling agenda because we are not good followers and the brainwashing was not complete?

  • FreedomFighter

    “Why Is Unemployment So High?”

    To cause “instability”.

    Instability to be used to further the demise of our American way of life as outlined by the SheDeomonToad Pivens the Demonrat Coward…put the L in yourself.

    The Liberal Progressive socialist communist agenda would never be accepted by a stable, viable America capitalist system, so they sabatoge the system and claim it does not work.

    Socialism and Communist experiments around the world illustrate the epic fail of these system for the people of those nations.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • Cawmun Cents

      I believe the term to describe the failure is “monolithic”!

  • http://com i41

    One area that nobody, touched the issue of everyone needing to have a college degree. Which right aways puts you at a major disadvange of being in debt and hoping for a job. Most of the college degreed idoits never have worked at the job they are over seeing and think in the groove some trained book reading idoit operating on theories. “Going Back To School” with Rodney Dangerfeild, is a movie imatating life, in the elitist smug business professor. I have some family that all have multidegrees, one has a masters in economics and business law. 2 years ago he was going to buy my business and was so sure it would be a walk in the park with all the degrees to use in banking ans business. At first it was 3 of us as a group , then since I am not degreed, they decided I was out. They all have been trained by book trained idoit professors from high dollar schools, and don’t know s–t about real life the business never got off the ground. Just like our beltway overeducated simpletons who make the regulations and plan the banking reforms don’t know s–t about business. When we were having problems with a crusher set up, with excessive loosing mountings. The compant sent a degreed engineer. Who showed up and as he walked around the equipment and made notations, when we had a sit down meeting, his first comment was that all the loosened studs were from the lock washers being put on up side down. Needless to say when everyone in the meeting started laughing for several minutes, he wigged out. When a lock washers was produced and this high dollar idoit was to show us the right way and the wrong way to install. An hour was peed away listening to a nonsencal speech. The problem was solved by us which turned out to be too soft grade of anchor bolts, that had been shipped from China, which stretched and were not usable. Our employable citizens are great at reading books and playing on computers. Also most are only able to do 1-2 types of jobs, if they have any experience with anything. Usually will only work 40 hours a week and need someone to keep laying out work in front them to go to stay busy. The group is at any age and a government schooled. There will be high unemployment until banking reform bill gets dismantled and the Nocare bill is dismantled. All unelected agancies distroyed and the new 780 new agencies dismantled, which will take at least 3 years at the earlist. In the last 2 years years the marxist/communist dmocrat party have inserted more regulations to stop any person from creating a business unless it is a simple basket weavingjob.

  • Donel

    WHY IS UNEMPLOYMENT SO HIGH? YOU MEAN THEY DON’T KNOW?
    THIS MAY HELP. SEE WHERE ANTTHING IS MADE IN AMERICA.
    HOW ABOUT MADE IN CHINA?
    FIGURE THAT OUT, THEN YOU WILL KNOW. CHINA HAS THE UNION TO THANK FOR.

    BY THE WAY, WHO ASKED THIS QUESTION? A BLIND MAN?
    BEEN TO THE STORES LATELY?

  • Rennie

    If you aren’t eligible for benefits no employer has a tax incentive to hire you, and the longer you are unemployed the less they want to hire you. It used to be anyone willing to work could paint buildings, mow lawns, landscaping, tree work, do light carpentry, have garage or firewood sales, vegetable stands, or other such work, but building codes, unions, insurance companies, zoning codes, FDA and the IRS have done what they can to stamp that out. Not enough to be out of work with no benefits but to be kicked while you are down makes it sting and wonder just what you paid all those witholdings and taxes for all the years you had a regular job. I’m not anti-government but I feel if they aren’t helping you then they should just leave you alone.

    • DaveH

      In other words, Big Government is the Problem, Not the Solution.

  • Donel

    CORRECTION-SEE WHERE ANYTHING IS MADE IN aMERICA?
    BEN IN THE STORES LATELY?

  • Tess_Comments

    I especially liked the section on Some Reasons For Persistent And High Unemployment.
    predominantly the following:
    The government made low-skilled workers artificially more expensive.
    The government made unemployment more financially attractive.
    The government is making employee health benefits more expensive by an unknown amount.

  • http://com i41

    I would like to know the exact number of posters that voted for the marxist muslim moron and all the soros socialist democraps, have any regrets or what the percentage is that are also unemployed. Several college grads have moved home to live with mommy and daddy, still are hoping for a government job. We cann’t wait till the costs of this Libyia mess gets exposed of what this idoit has done.

  • Eddie47d

    There are many reasons why unemployment is stubborn and you can harp on regulations and unions all you want. Are they the main reason,hardly.None of you want to admit that CEO’s are paying themselves too much. That they can’t afford to hire more workers because management has cleaned out the kitty. The wealthy have also made so much there is no longer a concern about the “other workers”. The wealthy can survive without anymore money put into their own business so unemployment is not as big a concern any longer. Banks are also flush with money but won’t lend out.Yet they are still paying out bonuses and creating nothing. How about the simple idea that we have lost our edge with ideas? That the brilliant minds have gone elsewhere? Maybe they took those ideas to the bank and were turned down. Another reason is that millions of Americans work from home and hire no one.Brick and mortar offices are no longer needed or their headquarters are overseas.Another(as the author pointed out) is that our workforce demands more for doing less and have set their expectations too high. The abuse of public benefits doesn’t help either. If you don’t need them get off of them and let those who truly need them have a chance. We also have a workforce who is too proud to take hard labor jobs or those jobs no one else will take. We need to change as a nation from top to bottom and live within our means. There are way too many on top who don’t earn what they take in yet they will hurt those on the bottom. How about being more honest on the issue.

    • DaveH

      It is their money! And you wonder why so many corporate owners want to leave this country. Taxes, regulations, and Greedy Unionists who have no respect for the property of others (but they sure want to possess it themselves).
      Since you have so little respect for property rights, please send your money to Bob Livingston, Eddie, so that he can put it to better use than you do.

      • Eddie47d

        I never mentioned property rights so what’s up with that little smear? I also see you are back at it in attacking unions. Those unions wouldn’t have anything without an agreeable management team. Management also benefits from union grievances. Seen it all the time at my company. Unions helped salaries trickle up and in non-union shops the owner/boss got the hefty salary and nothing trickled down.

        • DaveH

          You didn’t say “CEO’s are paying themselves too much”?
          If they’re CEOs, they don’t have property rights?

        • Vigilant

          Eddie,

          Every time you pay taxes, you are giving up private property to ther gov’t. Or do you consider your paycheck to be government property?

    • Patty

      Eddy- I was having some hope for you because of some previous posts. You seem to be regressing….

  • 45caliber

    The REAL problem is that the government doesn’t want people to know what the true rates are. It might worry us.

  • http://com i41

    edee must be a fan of Andy Stern and Onumnutts radical domestic terrorists on the top down bottom up crap. A better way would to dismantle all the agencies and cut the beltway benefits and pay to the average pay stucture of a fast food worker. The fast food worker has more responsiblity that any beltway slub.

  • misguided

    Some people get more money on unemployment than my take home pay. I see why they want take a low paying job.

  • Jim W.

    Mr. Murphy you missed one of the truly disappointing things in the economic downturn and unemployment. we have an administration lead by a man with absolutely no idea how a real economy or employment works an who continues to shoot his mouth off at every turn increasing the misery index his political party created. Mr. Obama believes that employers hire people out of the goodness of the hearts and therefore don’t hire because they are mean-spirited and out to damage him and his administration. He has no concept that his actions and his mouth along with the policies of his administration have further depressed the economy and added a large dose of uncertainty that further depresses hiring. Things will not improve markedly until we return control of our government to people who actually have an idea how an economy and employment work.

    • DaveH

      Then we would have to turn the clock back over 100 years.

  • chuckb

    one reason there is fewer jobs is the illegal situation, these people have flooded this country from all over the world, they definitely have an affect on our employment market and in some cases the hourly rate.
    on a tv show last night they covered the track of 16 africans who came to so. america then proceeded thru colunbia and panama, thru latin america thru mexico and into the u.s. one man claimed it cost him 15 thousand dollars, he planned on getting work in the u.s. and sending money back to his family. it seems to me if what he said is true that 15 thousand would last him a long time in africa. we can’t employ the whole world and with the unions demanding higher wages and benefits there doesn’t seem to be an answer other than we are heading for a third world country status. i doubt if we can employ the millions of illegals who have arrived on the scene, is this barry’s intentions?

    • DaveH

      The number of jobs is limited only by our lack of imagination, willingness to work, and obstacles put up by Government.
      I don’t believe people should be allowed to break the immigration laws, but I also believe it should be much easier to immigrate legally.
      The illegals aren’t the cause of our bad economy, they are just an easy scapegoat. Like the oil industry is an easy scapegoat for the inflation that is really caused by the Federal Reserve printing of excess dollars.
      The cause of our bad economy is just too damn much Government.
      Would anybody on this board pay 40% of their salary willingly for what they receive from Government? I sure wouldn’t. Well we do, only unwillingly.

      • chuckb

        dave h, we don’t need easier immigration laws and i beg to differ with you, the illegals do have an effect on our economy. take a look at california, the state is upside down and yes the environmental laws have has a definite effect, but also the illegal population has had a terrible impact on the states finances.

        • DaveH

          California is in the tank because their Big Government has spent them and regulated them into that tank.
          I saw that coming 15 years ago and moved from California to Arizona.

      • Patty

        Dave – I don’t think you are adding in all of your taxes. You looked at your gross pay – net pay and came up with 40%, right? Well, you left off property taxes, sales taxes, vehicle taxes, gas taxes, liquor, tobacco, and the list is unbelievably a lot longer that you pay towards. You are probably hitting more at 60-70%. I would also include my car insurance since it is mandated by the state.

        • DaveH

          No Patty, 40% is the estimate for all Government taxes in the United States (Federal, State, and Local).

          • DaveH

            Sorry Patty, but I said that wrong. What I meant to say was Government expenditures were about 40% of the GDP. Some of those expenditures are funded by debt rather than taxes. Same difference though as somebody will have to pay those debts in the future one way or the other.

          • Patty

            Wow. Then I must be in a different bracket.

          • Patty

            ok. Now I gotcha.

      • Patty

        Dave H – Also, on immigration, they don’t spend a lot of that money here so that it is going back into our economy, they send it back home, wherever that may be.

  • http://YAHOO.COM Sue C

    The question should not be, Why is the unemployment rate SO HIGH? It should be, “WHEN WILL THE THIEVES, PAST, AND CURRENT, DATING AS FAR BACK AS 1982-THE PRESENT, BE CAUGHT, AND WHIPPED WITH CATONINE TAILS, LONG, AND HARD ENOUGH SO THAT THEY CANNOT SIT ON THEIR BACKSIDES?

    NOTE: I WROTE A WHOLE MESSAGE ON THIS ISSUE, A FEW MINUTES AGO, AND USKGB ERASED IT, BEFORE I COULD SEND IT. WHEN WILL THE INTERNAL AL QAEDA BE CAUGHT, WHO ALSO SUBMIT FAKE BILLS TO CONGRESS, AND GET PAID FOR COMMITTING HORRIBLE CRIMES, WITHIN AMERICA! YES! I AM REFERRING TO THE USKGB!!!!! WHEN WILL WE WAKE-UP? THANKS.

    ALL THE ABOVE ARE THE CAUSE WHY WE ARE PENNILESS PAUPERS, AND THE REAL REASON WHY WE HAVE SUCH A HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT RATE!!!!!

    PLEASE LET US FIND THE THIEVES, AND LIARS, CHEATS, THE DRUG, HUMAN, AND SEX TRAFFICKERS, THE MONEY LAUNDERERS, HIGH-LOW PROFILED, AND MISC. OTHER, AND LET US JUST “CAN” THEM!

    THEY PRACTICE CYBER EUTHANASIA, USE CYBER-BIO CHEMS/HAZARDS ON AMERICAN CITIZENS, AND IMMIGRANTS, WHILE AMERICA THINKS THEY ARE THIS COUNTRY’S SAVIOUR, WHILE THEY ARE DRAINING BILLIONS OF $$$$$ FROM THE TAX-PAYERS’ FUNDS, UNDER FALSE PRETENSES, AND PULLING WOOL OVER YOUR EYES, RIGHT HERE IN THE USA!

  • http://YAHOO.COM Sue C

    USKGB JUST CUT OFF MY LAST PARAGRAPH, AND PASTED IT AS THE THIRD TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH. SEE *

    *ALL THE ABOVE ARE THE CAUSE WHY WE ARE PENNILESS PAUPERS, AND THE REAL REASON WHY WE HAVE SUCH A HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT RATE!!!!!

    PLEASE LET US FIND THE THIEVES, AND LIARS, CHEATS, THE DRUG, HUMAN, AND SEX TRAFFICKERS, THE MONEY LAUNDERERS, HIGH-LOW PROFILED, AND MISC. OTHER, AND LET US JUST “CAN” THEM!

    THEY PRACTICE CYBER EUTHANASIA, USE CYBER-BIO CHEMS/HAZARDS ON AMERICAN CITIZENS, AND IMMIGRANTS, WHILE AMERICA THINKS THEY ARE THIS COUNTRY’S SAVIOUR, WHILE THEY ARE DRAINING BILLIONS OF $$$$$ FROM THE TAX-PAYERS’ FUNDS, UNDER FALSE PRETENSES, AND PULLING WOOL OVER YOUR EYES, RIGHT HERE IN THE USA!

  • Raggs

    If unemployment was low ( lets say around 5% )would mean that alot of people that voted for obama would have to go to work… he would loose votes…

  • DaveH
    • Void1972

      Dave,
      It’s getting sicker by the minute!

      • DaveH

        Yes, it is.

  • Ronald Johnston

    This evil government has cooked the books so that the American people do not realize how bad it is. We are entering a situation we have never been in, even in the Great Depression, and nobody understands it. osama obama has been a terrorist since he was a child in Indonesia and he is doing very well for his enablers.

    • Bert Cundle

      Coinsoance… that CITY, County, State, & Fed’s & World is going through Short fall of Revenue & Too Deep in Debt… Citizens, Familys, “EVERYONE?”

  • Raggs

    Someone had a good idea… Open up a tin foil hat repair shop :)

  • Cindy

    The Reason that we have so many Unemployed is actually quite simple —- They Have “ALL” been “OUTSOURCED” and sent Overseas. It’s Not that people have Given up looking for jobs … It’s That there are NO Jobs to look For !

  • mike

    anybody that tells you they want to cut the budget but doesn’t go after the military and foreign aid is a lying sack-o-corruption.

  • chuckb

    bbjhon, we cannot stop our technology, we can keep it reasonable. unless we keep this nation strong militarily and ahead of our competitors like russia and china we will lose not only our country, but our freedom. barry has already turned nasa into a kindergarden for the muslim nations and atopped our space programs. we cannot afford to start eating the seeds before we plant them. barry has a third world mentality,

  • http://none steve

    you are an idiot. how can you put a statistic on how many people have given up on looking for work? do you have secret spies looking in people’s windows? Do you really believe there are people out there looking to making $200,000 per year at a fast food restaurant? How stupid do you think people are. You are citing Austrians as an example for high unemployment. Are you nuts? you should keep your loony ideas to your self and stop stuffing them into the heads of the morons who subscribe to your views.

  • Patty
  • UncleOtto

    The title of this is misleading and I’m surprised at Mr. Murphy as an instructor of the von Mises institute is responsible. Perhaps it was an oversight, for it is my understanding that the von Mises was opposed to free trade, which is the underlying cause of our unemployment. It was never mentioned. The “big sucking sound” was heard loud and clear. The free TRAITOR’s “FIELD OF DREAMS” has predictably turned out to nightmare that is upon us today. For the past 50 years that I know of, the egghead Economic College Professors have been teaching that free trade is the path to take. Lou Dobbs, an economist and a former TV pundit was initially in favor of free trade, soon became a convert and spoke about it frequently as well as other things such as illegal immigration, open borders, undeclared wars, etc. Could this be the reason, he is no longer in TV, too close to the truth?
    Per Karl Marx:
    But, generally speaking, the Protective system in these days is conservative, while the Free Trade system works destructively. It breaks up old nationalities and carries antagonism of proletariat and bourgeoisie to the uttermost point. In a word, the Free Trade system hastens the Social Revolution. In this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, I am in favor of Free Trade.
    This was first published in French as a pamphlet at the beginning of February 1848.

  • Eric Bischoff

    Although an interesting article it then quickly, as usual here, turns into another useless rant and rave session from mostly mean morons who have blinders on and think they know everything about everything when in reality most of you (80%) have never had a passport and therefore have never been anywhere and a s result know very little about the world. And DaveH you take the crown as the meanest most arrogant leader of this know nothing crowd.

    If this was Germany in the 20s’s most of you here would be voting for Hitler and siding with Nazis blaming everything on the immigrants, the poor and the unemployed in the ghettos.

    The situation is eerily similar with a failed and strapped economy and there is every indication that the morons will make the same mistakes again.

    It’s interesting that we are celebrating the 100 year anniversary of the Triangle Waistshirt factory fire where Capitalist pigs with no regulations and no will to ever do the right thing let 146 people aged 16-23 die as they were locked in to a burning building.

    The lack of regulation was directly responsible and it was all preventable.

    This was our Bouazizi spark that gave us child labor laws, fire codes, building codes and all the way to the new deal.

    So now let’s move up to 2010. Have you not heard of the eerily almost identical Bangladesh garment factory fire in Dec 2010. Outsourcing labor to the third world to escape regulations and fair labor wages (28 cents/hr) to make your ugly cheap T-shirts. And it happens all over again. They were making Gap and JC Penney and other famous brands.

    Now most of you here want to go back to these days without government regualtions so that we can compete with the third world.

    No regulations so that BP can drill baby drill. No regulations so that we can relicense old decrepit nuclear plants. Screw you and screw the environment we want money.

    I say tax the rich A LOT and tax corporate profits A LOT. Let’s go back to pre-Reagan tax rates. That’s when we had a healthy America. And let’s start enforcing the hard and fought for Regulations.

    If they don’t like it they can reinvest the money so that it won’t be taxed. They can pay higher salaries and they can hire more people instead of making record profits all on the backs of the American workers.

    How do you think the rich got richer than ever? by paying us fair wages! By reinvesting in America!

  • Eric Bischoff

    More food for thought.

    The ATT & TMobile merger. How do they always pay for these mergers? They layoff people. More unemployment. Yeah capitalism and free markets win again. Why do we even allow mergers in these times since the end result is alway more unemployment.

    We broke up Ma Bell and now we allow it to rebuild itself bigger than ever. We should be breaking up big companies not allowing them to get bigger. Isn’t that what antitrust is for? Don’t we want more competition? What kind of capitalists are you?

    Will they rubber stamp it as payback for ATT allowing the govt to hook up their wiring pig tails so that they can spy on every phone call and every internet connection?

    We are a consumer driven society and we are destroying the consumer. Low wages high unemployment equals a failed economy and empty tax coffers. It’s not that complicated

  • William Allen

    While it is well and good to lower your expectations for the future we as a society would not to do this if we gave up the warrior mentality. Most of the war is a fabrication, if it weren’t more of the World community would side with us.

    President Obama told us during the National Address that we would have to cut domestic spending and went on to say that portion of spending represented only 12% of the budget. Ask yourself what did you personally vote to do with the other 88%.

    Let’s be clear, as the President like to say, for every dollar of tax you pay you get back 12 cents returned, this is probably close to the same ratio of payout in Las Vegas. The question every American must begin to ask his representatives is where specifically is the other 88 cents going and what’s in it for me or how does it help America today.

    We can spend almost a trillion dollars a year to selectively weed out people (what we currently call war ) that don’t support our Corporation’s business plans and then we rebuild their infrastructure we destroyed, at our expense, but we can not afford to heal our own people. It’s time to slash our military and heal our people.

    It’s sad that our media turns American against American instead of working to support one another. Once the financial collapse is complete will you want to “get back to the way things were ” or will you be able to see a higher paradigm ?

    Imagine a society that costs less than 25 % of a persons earnings to “survive”, one that includes healthcare for everyone and secondary education for everyone be that collage or trade school. Imagine the end of war as we know it and a United Nations that works where all nations share the cost and responsibility to ensure human rights and dignities.

    The problem is that Americans will have to learn to share their resources and toys but we have been trained to believe in competition instead of cooperation. This paradigm shifts when we as a society “lose” the material prosperity we view as so important and are able to conceive a bigger picture and meaning to life.

    Simply stated America needs a higher purpose to supersede the current model of profit being the bottom line to success. I hope that many of you have a personal vision for your local community because its unlikely that Washington will be able to lead.

    The only thing that stands in the way of a peaceful society is a bunch of rhetoric from persons and business interest who don’t want it. Money is not real we print it up for war and we’re told but we can’t print more for health and personal growth. Does that really make sense to you?

    You say we shouldn’t because will go broke, so what we are broke. We can default (and we will) go into bankruptcy and apologize for our mistake like any large corporation.

    It’s up to each of us to decide and begin to craft our own future in our local communities based on what we believe to be truly important and worth living for.

    I wish you all well on your personal journey during these changing times. Please remember you are a human being first and you are surrounded by fellow human beings who all what the same thing; to feel safe & happy & to sense some sort of significance in their lives.

    • Eric Bischoff

      Finally a voice in the wilderness. Thank you William Allen.

      • Cawmun Cents

        You left out the word “communist” in between a and voice.

  • chuckb

    w allen, unfortunately we do not live in the world you suggest, in this world it is made up of different religions and cultures and since we have no god on earth to lead us, we better keep our powder dry and make sure we have enough.
    man better find a way to control the multiplying populations, the main cause of war is hunger and we are breeding faster than we can grow food. most countries have not only food production problems, but shortage of drinking water. they have polluted their water, they have over fished their share of the sea and are seeking to wipe out ours.
    our country is their opportunity, that’s why we have millions of illegals crossing our borders.
    look at the turmoil in the middle east, these countries are not revolting for some kind of democracy, they are wanting to expand their religion, go talk to them about your brotherly love, they will hand your head back on a plate. our muslim in chief is assisting them. when this is all over we will have no more allies in the middle east and we will have to defend israel, it will be called ww3.

  • Ralphus Lucius

    Mr. Allen:

    Lovely sentiments. Problem is, the change of consciousness you would have all of us experience is likely only for a very few like-minded people. Even then, it never quite works out. Many utopian communities have been tried in the United States over the past 200 plus years – but they never quite made it. Human nature has this petty way of screwing things up.

    The only thing that stands in the way of a peaceful society is not the politicians – the bankers – the corporations. It is human nature itself. Human nature is rooted in survival instinct above all else. As civilized people, we try not to let our instincts get the better of us – but if it is do or die, instinct will always take over. Always.

    Regarding the original topic – unemployement, I would like to frame this in context on how we have come to view the employer – worker relationship. Over the past 75 years or so, as many Americans gave up small farms and moved to cities for manufacturing and service jobs – these same Americans also gave up some measure of their own personal liberty. Eventually the contract between these two entities evolved – with workers increasingly granted benefits – such as pensions, medical insurance, life insurance, et al. It was a central planning model of the 20th century that created a new class of dependent Americans who came to believe that modern corporations – and governments – would always provide a measure of security if you will. It was always a flawed model – a gross deception. But, we have become used to it. So now when business don’t hire, they are castigated as cruel and greedy – as if they are some punishing parent. Darn. Guess there can never be a perfect world after all.

    I have been a successful business owner for more than 25 years. We offer no benefits – no health insurance – no dental – no life insurance – nothing. But here’s the deal. We offer generous wages for those who are willng to do the work, and do it well. They are paid top dollar. I’d rather my employees have the freedom to make their own choices regarding healthcare and other benefits – choosing to spend their money the way they like. It’s really none of my business. I want them to work with me not becaause of the security – but because they enjoy the business and enjoy conributing their creativity to make something grow. Maybe that’s why my folks tend to stay with us year after year. Incidentally, this works. Our business grows every year, and last year – one of the toughest for most, we doubled our growth to a record year. Personal liberty is what it is all about – not making lame and reluctant servants out of people.

  • Bert Cundle

    There is a War going on.. The War of Opposites…
    Church Vs. State… (State loosing)
    NATO Vs. United Nations… ( U.N. Loosing.)
    Democracy Vs. Liberty… (Liberty Loosing.)
    Law Vs Order… (Laws loosing)
    World War # 3…

  • Eric Bischoff

    I would say we’re lacking imagination and faith!

    • Cawmun Cents

      Yes but interestingly enough Mr.Bischoff(TNA management)the utopia for which you pine is always attached to a socialist agenda.The vision of these world changing ideas always means that Americans loose more and the world gains less.I

  • Mick

    Patty says:
    March 25, 2011 at 8:38 am
    Dave- I don’t think that would do any good. I know people who supposedly have all if this education and not a like of common sense. You can’t teach that. You either have it or you don’t.
    ********************************
    Patty….. So true….Most of our overly educated lack common sense.
    All we have to do is look at all of Government advisors with degrees up the yazoo, how is it working for us?? When does our governemnt begin to make sense ?

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    chuckb
    I have never disagreed with you before,but on this one I disagree
    with you 100%.There is a God on earth,The thing is, we as a country
    have turned our back on him. Till we get back to him,it`s going to
    be a rough hoe to hoe. He has been taken out of our public life
    and been replaced by people like Obama,who claims, we are no longer
    a Christian nation,that we are a nation of all faiths. It has come
    to the place in time, in America, that it is Good verses Evil. God
    will lead us, all you have to do, is look for that lead and believeth
    in him. When the time comes, God will take care of those who believe
    in him and who has excepted his son has their personal savior. Only
    through his son(Jesus Christ)will you be able to reach God and
    the place we call heaven. Chuck, I do agree with you 100% on the rest of your post. Keep up the good work,however, I give up on our lost friend, jopa. He even went to his own sources and still can`t undestand what he is reading. So,I say, let him sink to the depths
    of hell with his God, Obama, and the rest of his Marxist friends.

  • jopa

    Charles:Hello from the depths of what you call hell.It sure is a chilly one here today I thought it would be much much warmer in what I call America, my home,Obama my president and the land of the free and the home of the brave.Hmm,I almost started singing.When you decide to get off your high and mighty throne please do not flush in that we have endured far too much of your crap already.You are so quick to cast stones you not too too evil man and this name calling.My My.

  • jopa

    Now back to the topic.Why is unemployment so high?People keep saying over and over Mr, president where are the jobs? Then they go on to say government cannot create jobs.There it is your asking in the wrong place.However all the jobs will return to America once we get rid of the unions and the people get accustomed to working in sweat shops for three dollars a day.It is very costly to manufacture abroad and ship the goods back to America so the best thing is to have Americans make the goods.It is wrong for all these Chinese kids to take the jobs away from American kids.We wont even need teachers we can put them to work as soon as they can walk and talk and not have to give them benefits such as paid vacations, sick days, weekends and holidays off.If they never had it they won’t miss it right?Unions who needs them?

  • mark

    The reason we have high employment is because employers want high unemployment because then the employer can exploit the employees. Want low unemployment. Solution… Deport all illegal alliens, limit immigration. Have high tarriffs against imports. Do not let American companies out source jobs over seas. As long as the employers of America pay-off elected leaders employees will be exploite untilfinally the Average American is feed up and rebels. Power to the people!!!

  • AustinAndy

    This is all very well, but they are mostly after the fact. In this case, the proximate cause for the fall in the economy was the Housing bubble which was enabled by the Federal Reserve policies of easy money and the Democrats who insisted on easy housing with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. When the housing market collapsed and the stock market along with it, our last two presidents leapt into action and spent copious amounts of borrowed money to fix the economic mess, thereby making it far worse and much longer. And we still have not fixed the banking system nor the housing problem two years later; we have not let the free market mechanisms take hold to get a recovery. At present we are monetizing our debt and crowding out banking activity because the banks have “invested” their funds in the federal government, crowding out private sector lending and continuing the recession.

    The free market mechanisms would include bankruptcy, bank failures, and housing repossessions which are certainly very painful, but would provide certainty in the economic activity from which an economic recovery is possible. Employment is a result of economic activity, not causal.

  • swampfox

    GET RID OF OBAMASS!!!PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

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