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Who Is Brett Kimberlin And Why Should You Care?

June 4, 2012 by  

Who Is Brett Kimberlin And Why Should You Care?
Progressive organizations are essentially funding convicted bomber Brett Kimberlin's attacks on right-leaning bloggers.

The Democratic Party is the party of tolerance. We are told this with regularity. After all, the party tolerates — promotes, actually — deviant lifestyles, the murder of babies in the womb, legalized theft by government, general sloth by the populace, terrorists, big government, coercion, mob violence and thuggishness (workers unions), central planning (socialism and Marxism), and crony capitalism (which is essentially fascism).

What it doesn’t tolerate is free speech. In fact, it goes to great lengths — even engaging in criminal activity — and great expense to ensure that dissenting views are squelched, particularly the views from the right. And that’s where Brett Kimberlin comes in.

Kimberlin is a Democratic Party operative. But he has a very sordid past. He partners with Brad Friedman — a liberal blogger — in two leftist nonprofit organizations: The Velvet Revolution and the Justice Through Music Project (JTMP). He’s also an associate — self-described — of Daily Kos contributor and Democrat operative Neal Rauhauser.

Kimberlin has made a habit — really more of a career — of attacking right-leaning bloggers. He does this by abusing the court system, filing false charges, committing perjury, harassing and intimidating family members, invading privacy, making veiled threats, and intimidating workers in the workplace. Bloggers Aaron Walker (who originally blogged as Aaron Worthington), Patterico, Liberty Chick and Robert Stacy McCain have all been targeted by Kimberlin.

The Back Story

In the mid-1970s, Kimberlin, then in his early 20s, took up with an Indiana woman named Sandra Barton. According to Mark Singer in his book Citizen K: The Deeply Weird American Journey of Brett Kimberlin, Kimberlin began to show more than a passing — most people would say unhealthy — interest in Barton’s 10-year-old daughter, Jessica. For three consecutive summers, 1974-1976, Kimberlin took Jessica on extended vacations to Disney World, Mexico and Hawaii without Sandra’s attendance. Kimberlin began to introduce Jessica to friends as his girlfriend, claiming their relationship was chaste and he was waiting for her to become old enough to marry.

By 1978, Sandra’s mother, Julia Scyphers, began voicing her concerns about the nature of the relationship between Kimberlin and young Jessica. According to reports, several verbal altercations occurred between Scyphers and Kimberlin over the issue. On July 29, 1978, Scyphers answered a knock on her door. A man she did not know inquired about items she had recently tried to sell. She took the man into the garage to show him the items, and the man shot her in the head.

As police began investigating the murder, their attention was drawn to a suspect who was an associate of Kimberlin – and, therefore, to Kimberlin himself — in a murder-for-hire scheme. Shortly thereafter, bombs began going off in Speedway, Ind., the community in which Scyphers lived. Eight bombs exploded over six days. No one was killed in the bombings, but a man named Carl DeLong was seriously injured when a gym bag he found in the parking lot outside Speedway High School exploded. The blast tore off his lower right leg and two fingers, injured his left leg and embedded shrapnel in his abdomen. Bomb fragments also injured his wife Sandra.

After three trials, Kimberlin was convicted of the Speedway bombings. A jury found him guilty on 33 separate charges. Included in these were illegal use of Department of Defense insignia and illegal use of the Presidential Seal: documents he forged and used to help obtain the explosives used in the bombs. He was also convicted of perjury and conspiracy to traffic marijuana.

No one was ever convicted in the Scyphers murder, but police speculated that Kimberlin used the bomb spree to draw police off the murder investigation. Kimberlin associate William Bowman was arrested on suspicion of murder, but police let him go when Scyphers’ husband Fred — who claimed to have gotten a glimpse of Bowman in the front yard on the day of his wife’s murder — died of cancer two weeks after Bowman’s arrest. The murder remains unsolved.

While Kimberlin was in prison, DeLong committed suicide in 1983 after becoming despondent over the extent of his injuries. Sandra DeLong sued Kimberlin and won a $1.6 million judgment in civil court.

In 1988, Kimberlin became a national figure when he claimed he’d once sold marijuana to Indiana Senator Dan Quayle, then a candidate for Vice President. Kimberlin never provided any evidence to bolster his claim, and Quayle denied it ever happened.

After serving about 13 years of his 50-year sentence, Kimberlin was paroled in 1994. When he failed to make an effort to pay the civil judgment to Sandra DeLong, Kimberlin’s parole was revoked. He remained in prison until 2001.

In 2005, Kimberlin formed JTMP as a 501(c)3 nonprofit. He quickly began receiving donations from the George Soros-backed Tides Foundation, which provides most of the funding for the left-wing hate site Media Matters; the Barbra Streisand Foundation; and Heinz Family Foundation, led by Teresa Heinz Kerry, wife of Senator John Kerry (D-Mass.). Other listed funders are the Fidelity Investments Charitable Gift, Schwab Charitable Fund, Threshold Foundation and the Silicon Valley Community Foundation.

The nonprofits are Kimberlin’s lone known source of income. So those organizations are essentially funding Kimberlin’s attacks on the right-leaning blogosphere.

Aaron’s Story

Aaron Walker’s story is so long and convoluted that 10,000 words wouldn’t do it justice, so my brief summation won’t either. Walker described it in detail here. Prepare for a couple of hours of uninterrupted reading if you want to read it all. He bolsters his account with police reports, court filings, copies of emails and surveillance video.

In short, while blogging as Worthington in 2010, Walker learned of Kimberlin’s story through Patterico (real name J. Patrick Frey). Patterico and Liberty Chick on wrote about Kimberlin’s efforts (through Velvet Revolution) to have James O’Keefe and Hanna Giles prosecuted for their operation exposing ACORN as a criminal enterprise. (The articles resulted in Kimberlin threatening to sue Frey for libel and other perceived slights.)

At the time, Walker was also following a case in which Kimberlin had sued a blogger named Seth Allen in Maryland for defamation. In the claim, Kimberlin attributed statements to Allen that Allen had not made. A default judgment was issued against Allen. Allen asked Walker, an attorney, for help with his case, so Walker provided free, brief legal advice to Allen. He did not represent Allen because he is not licensed to practice in Maryland.

When Kimberlin learned that Walker had assisted Allen, Walker became the target of Kimberlin’s ire. At this time, Kimberlin only knew Walker as Aaron Worthington, so he filed court documents to try to learn Worthington’s real name. Walker did not want it made public for a number of reasons. Kimberlin also went after an attorney named Beth Kingsley who Walker had retained to handle another matter for him. In an email to Kingsley, which Kimberlin asked her not to share with Walker, Kimberlin made veiled threats to Kingsley’s livelihood and threatened to file ethics charges against her. Then he proposed a settlement that involved publicly identifying Walker as the person behind the Worthington persona.

In the settlement offer, Kimberlin also threatened to file criminal stalking charges against Walker, although the sum total of Walker’s ever having mentioned Kimberlin in his writing prior to Kimberlin’s court filings consisted of one paragraph in one article about the Allen case in which he mentioned Kimberlin’s bombing conviction.

However, once Kimberlin directed his thuggish behavior at Walker, Walker began writing about it.

On Jan. 9, Walker went to court in Maryland in response to Kimberlin’s court filings in the Allen case. Walker represented himself in an effort to have court documents revealing his identity sealed and, he hoped, have Kimberlin sanctioned by the court for his behavior.

Walker says the judge was irritated because Allen failed to appear and had little patience for what he viewed as a squabble between two people that didn’t concern the case. So Walker got little satisfaction from the courtroom. After the case was over, Walker gathered up his things and began to leave and found himself right behind Kimberlin.

After they exchanged a few words, Kimberlin turned and raised his iPad. Walker said he did not know whether Kimberlin was trying to strike him or take his photograph, but he instinctively grabbed the iPad away from Kimberlin and refused to give it back. Police were called; Walker gave the iPad to them; they gave it back to Kimberlin.

That afternoon, Kimberlin filed a criminal assault complaint against Walker. He alleged that Walker:

attacked me physically while exiting the courtroom.  He hit me on the shoulder and chest and pushed me, and grabbed my iPad away from me and refused to return it.  Mr. Walker has been harassing me and stalking me online for months, and as we were exiting the Courthouse / Room 5 / Floor 9, he said he was going to continue harassing me, and as we left the courtroom, he grabbed my iPad, hit me in the face, shoulder and chest and wrestled the iPad away from me.  Several people witness [sic] this event and the police were immediately called.  They got my iPad back and safely escorted me from the building.  Mr. Walker tried to come at me several more times but was restrained.

On the night of their altercation in the judicial building, Kimberlin exchanged emails with Walker’s former attorney telling her, in essence, that he would file additional charges against Walker if Walker continued to write about him. He also contacted Neal Rauhauser (mentioned earlier) who wrote about the incident, casting Kimberlin as a victim. He sent two more emails that night to Walker that Walker considered threatening, extortionate and defamatory.

Over the course of the next several weeks, Kimberlin filed a lot of paperwork with the court system alleging all sorts of grievances on him by Walker, including assault charges over the altercation. He also obtained a peace (restraining) order prohibiting contact by Walker, though Walker had never contacted Kimberlin except in response to court filings. The fallout of all this was that Walker was suspended without pay by his company because the company president feared that Kimberlin — a convicted bomber — might bomb the company. Walker’s wife, who worked for the same company, was also suspended without pay.

On May 17, Walker wrote his long article about his dealings with Kimberlin. On May 19, Kimberlin went to court and obtained another peace order against Walker. Walker continued to write about Kimberlin; and on May 29, when Walker went to a Maryland courtroom, he was arrested for violating the peace order. In essence, Walker was arrested for writing articles about a public figure: a clear violation of Walker’s 1st Amendment rights.

As mentioned earlier, Walker is not alone in his dealings with Kimberlin. Frey and Liberty Chick have been threatened with lawsuits. Frey claims that someone called police, gave Frey’s address and said he had shot someone, causing police to show up at his house with guns drawn. This practice, called “swatting,” is becoming a prevalent tactic the left is using against right-leaning writers and bloggers. Circumstantial evidence points to Kimberlin. Michelle Malkin writes that Frey has told her the entire story of his dealings with Kimberlin and “his plight will send chills up your spine when he’s ready to tell it.”

He has also received threatening tweets from a man named Ron Brynaert, an associate of Kimberlin.

Robert Stacy McCain claims he was forced to take his family and flee his home as a result of threats from Kimberlin.

What Is It With Democrats And Terrorists?

The left’s embracing — and funding — of convicted domestic terrorist Kimberlin is eerily similar to its embracing of convicted bomber Bill Ayers.

Ayers groomed President Barack Obama and launched his political career. Yet his association with a man who, as part of the Weathermen Underground, set off numerous bombs — including one that may have killed a San Francisco police officer — has not hurt Obama’s standing in the least.

In the 2010 election, a number of Democratic candidates used Rauhauser’s firm to help with their social media efforts. Rauhauser also hired a number of people to tweet libelous and vulgar tweets about Tea Party activities during the height of the Tea Party’s activities.

The progressives’ ideas of bigger government, more spending and “hope and change” can’t stand up to arguments against smaller government and liberty. So the leftists resort to thuggery, intimidation and the courts to silence their detractors. But right-leaning writers (joined by some on the left) see Kimberlin’s attacks for what they are: an assault on free speech — and, therefore, freedom itself.

That the left and Democrats would even embrace convicted domestic terrorists like Kimberlin and Ayers — and, in fact, invite them into their inner circle and encourage their tactics — demonstrates that the progressives who have taken over the party are true enemies of America.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • revnowwhilewecan

    I would imagine that there are scumbags shills like this in the imaginary left and right blog worlds. With this idiot out there on the attack for the libs, wouldn’t the righties know about him, expose him and use him to their advantage? I’m sure someone like O’Reily or Rush or even Coulter would have a field day with this, no? Pretty comical article tho Bob. I especially like the opening joke, “The Democratic Party is the party of tolerance.” Good one Bob! Great to start the week off with a laugh!

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear revnowwhilewecan,

      Non sequitur.

      Best wishes,

      • dawgbisquit1

        What else would you expect from a bunch of thugs Bob?! What makes this story so SCARY is that the judicial system seems to be backing the thugs!!!

        “Tolerence is the last virtue of a dying society.” – Aristotle

      • Tom W.

        Where’d ja get the picture of Flushy?! LOL!!!

      • Tom W.

        Tell Ben he’s gonna have to start tightin’ up on Saturdays, I can’t be defendin’ him from these libtard heckelers like Karlolyn if he ain’t deliverin’ the goods! If you’re gonna be a comedian, the only way you can justify canned laughter is if YOUR JOKES ARE FUNNY!!! Now I know that it’s summer and there’s a lot of things to keep you Playboy types busy besides work, but this is ALSO an election year with perhaps the most important dicission in the ENTIRE history of our young republic!!! It’s SACRIFICE time Benjamin Crystal! I EXPECT HUGE THINGS FROM YOU THIS SATURDAY DUDE!!! It’s BAD when I start lookin’ more forward to Bob’s article on Monday than I do “Great 8″ Saturday! TIGHTEN UP!!! Ya both are lettin’ Wayne steal the show! LOL!!!

      • Void1972

        I have stated for many years now the fact that a democrat is damaged goods. Liberalism is a mental disorder caused by severe mental, physical or sexual abuse as a child, and most democrats think corrupt thoughts to try and normalize their insane existence.
        Kimberlin is not an exception, he is the liberal rule.
        A life filled with hatred, demented pedophile tendencies, murder, child rape and many other typical liberal qualities.
        These people have no use for God and goodness, but worship satan, obama, reid, polosi and everything anti-God and anti-America.
        I am coming to the conclusion, by understanding the facts, that America does need a civil war to cleanse our demented satanic democratic party from this land.
        The majority of the democratic cult is extremely mentally challenged and considers evil good.
        Just look at admitted democrats and you will see the truth.
        America’s prison population is 98% liberal.
        Convicted child molesters are 98% liberal.
        Ignorant blacks that suck off the system are 95% liberal.
        Gays are 97% liberal.
        Convicted murderers are 92% liberal (the other 8% won’t admit it).
        This sick demented little freak of a man should have been put to death many years ago, but because he is considered a star in the liberal community, he walks free.
        “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing!
        We have let evil reign for too long.
        Stand up against it or suffer its wrath!
        God bless America and those who fight for her!!!!

    • richard

      libral as the next redneck

  • Harold Olsen

    Liberals hate it when people disagree with them. They go ballistic and attack you if you don’t think the way they do. I notice that Mitt Romney and Ron Paul supporters act the same way. I’ve lost track of how many times they attacked for disagreeing with them. But then, both Romney and Paul are liberals.

    • Karolyn

      Oh, come on, Harold. Have you not see they way conservaives attack liberals for their views posted on this site? No one is without blame. There are radicals on all sides.

      • vanessa

        Don’t confuse attack for truth. Conservatives dont want to take away liberal talk radio, but liberals do. Conservatives don’t attack liberal bloggers but liberals do. Think about just where the real violence is coming from…….its not us.

      • eddie47d

        “Conservatives don’t attack Liberal blogger’s”. Do you really believe what you just said? I remember when Conservatives crowed when Air America went off the air. Can you now explain those discrepancies in your statement? Thank You.

      • DaveH

        Oh come on, Karolyn. I’ll tell you what, you reference as many unprovoked personal attacks by True Conservatives (those who believe in the original Constitution and small Government) as you can, and I’ll reference as many unprovoked personal attacks by Liberals (those who believe in usurping the original Constitution and want Big Government) as I can.

      • laura

        Have you ever looked up the word “conservative”, Conservatives tell truth, not lies and hate and stick to the constitution and work hard to protect everyones rights – even the socialist left. I say socialist because the Democratic party used to belong to moderates such as the Kennedy’s but they have been hyjacked by socialist like Obama.

      • DaveH

        In the mid to late 1800s, the Democrat Party was the party of Freedom. That was before the Progressives infiltrated both parties:

      • eddie47d

        Not true Vanessa!

      • Tom W.

        In the mid to late 1800′s, the democratic party was the party of the KKK and later on the Dixiecrats there Lil’ Deer!

      • DaveH

        Creepy people exist in any system, TomCon. Some of them land in jail. Some are free. At least in a Free Society, they don’t have the backing of Government.

      • Tom W.

        Touche’ DaveH, here’s one everybody but Karlolyn. eddie and da boys’ll get a kick out of;

        Becoming Illegal (Actual letter from an Iowa resident sent to his senator,)
        The Honorable Tom Harkin
        731 Hart Senate Office Building
        Phone (202) 224 3254
        Washington DC , 20510

        Dear Senator Harkin,
        As a native Iowan and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you. My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stems from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for only three of the last five years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone figures it out. Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year so I’m excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005. Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $10,000 a year. Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as ‘in-state’ tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son. Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver’s license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me, given that I still have college age children driving my car. If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance

        Your Loyal Constituent, (hoping to reach ‘illegal alien’ status rather than just a bonafide citizen of the USA )
        Donald Ruppert
        Burlington , IA
        Get your Forms (NOW)!!
        Call your Internal Revenue Service at 1-800-289-1040


      • GALT

        Yeah Me too DaveH, I’m ROTFLMAO just thinking all those “unprovoked ” attacks you’re pointing out TODAY………..mean while, you have business in the Barter thread…….

      • Tom W.

        Some get their statue ironically erected right across the street from the Supreme Court Bldg. DaveH!

      • D. Berkey

        so if that is correct then you must believe two wongs make a right

    • Alex Frazier

      Ron Paul is not a liberal.

      • Tom W.

        No he’s a Masonic racist!

      • DaveH

        So now, Tom, you’re joining the ranks of the misinformers?
        Why would Ron Paul vote against Big Government for 30 years and advocate things such as abolishing the Federal Reserve if he advocated Big Government?
        I thought better of you than to spread such misinformation.

      • DaveH

        That’s how Big Government advocates do their dirty work. They spread misinformation (Propaganda) which has no real legs, but it requires effort on the part of the readers or listeners to discover that it is untrue. So the ignorant, who rely on emotions instead of logic, research, or experience, embrace such things. They did it in the USSR, and they’re doing it here. It will only get worse as time goes on, because the people with the Power guard that Power rigorously and most are willing to do and say whatever it takes to retain it:

      • Tom W.

        Nice try DaveHinwater. LOL!!!

      • JeffH

        DaveH, all to often it seems Tom W displays some of the same traits as ignorant liberals…disagree and the childish name calling starts. I sometimes wonder if he’s just a liberal in disguise or a neo-con with progressive genes.

      • DaveH

        No, he’s just a Con.
        Sorry for the low blow, Tom, lol.

      • Bob Livingston

        Dear JeffH,

        I suspect the latter.

        Best wishes,

      • JeffH

        Tom W, just sayin’ that I agree with 90-95% of your posts but you do a 180 sometimes, ala Alinsky, when a non-liberal disagrees with you!

      • Tom W.

        Just as I suspect that ALL of the above posters are! Propably sittin’ there at the computer in nothing more than their sacred loin cloths, LOL!!! They sho is a thin-skinned lot Harold! LOL!!!

      • Mike

        Liberals don’t want truth, they want ear candy. They want only THEIR DOCTRINE.

        And they will mingle truth with lies to confuse you. That is the best way to discredit someone.

        We have to hope this Kimberlin guy gets in a serious accident along with George Soros. Why is there no flaming meteorite around when you need one?

        Or, maybe the two of them will be partying on Soro’s yacht when pirates attack. Terrorists deserve what terrorists do.

      • Tom W.

        Don’t you mean when a Paulite disagrees with me JeffH?! That and when someone like Lt comes chivalrously to Karlolyn’s rescue like he’s tryin’ to hit on the old crone or something, (LOL!!!) are the only times I catch any flack from any of my conservative brothers! Now even though I concider Karlolyn about like the NYer who knocked out the woman who hit him first in an arguement over a parkin’ spot! (He claims that the punch was a reflex when she swung and hit him in the eye first!) Now she’s tryin’ to sue him for assult and most everybody is on her side for the simple fact that she’s a woman! I say there’s your EQUAL RIGHTS!!! I can respect Lt’s Chivalry! He just hasn’t been carelessly cut and laughed at enough yet. But the Paultards, now they’re like a KLAN! (Pun intended! LOL!!!) They’re all probably runnin’ around their basements in their sacred lambskin loin cloths and pointy white hoods performin’ some kinda homo-satanic-rituals on their Lionel model train set-ups tryin’ to put the evil eye on me or somethin’!!! Until their fat ugly old ladies call ‘em for dinner, LOL!!!

    • Vigilannie

      RON PAUL is NOT a liberal. Better check your definitions with the definitions of our Founding Fathers.

    • Ted Crawford

      The only way I can equate Dr. Paul with the Liberals is through the method of circular logic as opposed to linear logic, even then I’m forced to jump the Progressives!

      • Ted Crawford

        I failed to add the need to, barely, skim over the Anarchists!

      • DaveH

        Anarchy is just a manipulative word, having been established as a buzzword for chaos through massive Propaganda, which is used as a weapon to stifle the speech of those who advocate much smaller Government.
        We somehow got by just fine in 1900 with Government that was 1/13th the size of our current Leviathan Government, but now most people who would advocate even a reduction in size to 1/2 of its present size would be verbally tarred and feathered as Anarchists.

      • Tom W.

        ONE of the MAIN things that turns me off about RP is the endorcement of him as the best the GOP has to offer by the LIBERALS such as Flushy, Deer, and eddie!!! His MAIN failing for me was his FAILURE to see the OBVIOUS threat imposed by the same factions that managed to pull off the ONLY terrorist attacks EVER committed on our soil by outside perpitrators since the Brittish burned the White House during the Madison administration! If the Islamists didn’t do it, then Alex Jones and the truthers are right, and we’ve got alot BIGGER problem on our hands!!!

        Doe’s this man sound like he’s kiddin’?!!


        “We believe, given the changing political landscape in Egypt, that it is in the best interests of the United States to engage with all parties that are peaceful, and committed to non-violence, that intend to compete for the parliament and president.” – US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, concerning the engaging of talks with the Muslim Brotherhood as a legitimate contending party in Egyptian politics.

        “Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. Quran is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.” – The motto of the Muslim Brotherhood, this is the same group who so prouldly proclaimed responsibility for the assassination of Anwar Sadat in 1981.

        “And for their saying, “Verily we have slain the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, an apostle of God.” Yet they slew him not, and they crucified him not, but they had only his likeness, and they who differed about him were in doubt concerning him: No sure knowledge had they about him, but followed only an opinion, and they did not really slay him, but God took him up to Himself. And God is mighty, wise!
        There shall not be one of the people of the Book but shall believe in Him before his death, and in the Day of Resurrection, He will be a witness against them.
        For the wickedness of certain Jews, and because they turn many from the way of God, We have forbidden them goodly viands which had been before allowed them.” – Sura 4:156-158
        Muslims claim that Christians and Jews are intolerant regarding them. These verses from their own holy book plainly show that it is them who have been intolerant towards both religions from their very conception.

    • Steve E

      Conservatives attack the Liberals on blogs, TV and radio because Liberals are idiotic by nature, stupid, non thinking, and have evil and diabolical tendencies. But at least the conservatives don’t make up charges and torts that take the Liberals to court.

      • Tom W.

        Fight like a REAL MAN, get on your knees and PRAY! It is our ONLY hope!!!

    • Bill

      If Ron Paul is a liberal then there as simply no conservatives remaining. That would make you a very liberal liberal, don’t you think it would?

      • Tom W.

        It would, it would!!! Good observation Bill!

      • http://N/A CintiCB

        Enough with the labels!!! Regardless of what label is applied-if he’s right (correct) he’s right and WILL SAVE OUR COUNTRY!!!

    • American-American

      Please be specific with your claim that Ron Paul supporters attack you. Also, can you prove that the constitution is a liberal document? By maligning Ron Paul you malign the constitution for it is a direct association to Ron Paul and what you are accusing him of being. Why do you cultivate the left right paradigm? It is divisive and we need to unite. Unite under the umbrella of the constitution at all possible opportunities and stop obeying the deliberate strategy to divide and conquer. You are accusing the only hope of restoring our national sovereignty of being a menace as well as his supporters who must tolerate you.

      • Frank Kahn

        I read all the links posted here and I am amazed at the twisting of truth and logic used by the liberal (government socialist liberals). The link about what a liberal is has nothing to do with what we call liberals in government. A liberal in government is the antithesis of a true liberal. Where a “LIBERAL PERSON” believes in small government and personal liberties, a “GOVERNMENT LIBERAL” believes in huge government and no personal liberties. Making a list of shills with DavidH an Katheryn at the top. Willing to have a good logical argument with any of them incuding Gault or uvuv. I am not sure this is possible since an argument is the exchange of facts / truth to enlighten the participants in the realities of the situation. I know that we (the american public) are fed misinformation about the economy and president Obama by the MSM, but I consider the information given to us by the radicals against him to also be suspect. Read all that you can. Talk to your community. See with your own eyes what is happening. Only then do you have a chance of knowing the truth.

      • DaveH

        I’m a shill to you, Frank, only because you’re ignorant of history.
        From the article:
        “The term classical liberalism was applied in retrospect to distinguish earlier nineteenth-century liberalism from the newer social liberalism”.

      • Tom W.

        I believe it is a documented FACT that Dr. Paul is a member of the Grand Lodge of Texas, and his wife a very high ranking mrmber of that lodge’s chapter of the Eastern Star. I believe that it is a documented FACT that a political action group sent out racially insensitive newsletters with Dr. Paul’s endorsement back in the early 90′s. Dr. Paul emphatically swears up and down that there is no threat from radical Islam whatsoever, even going as far as accusing anyone who says otherwise as being an Islamaphobe!!!

        Even though some might not concider me a thinkin’ man, I think I’d have to question this fellow’s judgement!!! We CANNOT have an Isolationist attitude in this day and age, we have Islamoterrorists workin on a NUCLEAR BOMB!!! A little Hitler with Persian visions of grandeur foggin’ his pea brain as he hears his Mahdi calling for the annillation of both US and Israel, and SOME people in this country seem to believe he’s not SERIOUS! REALLY!!! I don’t see how ANYONE could be so STUPID! Especially someone serving in our House of Representitives, well maybe Sheila Jackson Lee! LOL!!!

        “I do hereby, upon this Bible , and the mysterious legend of the Koran, and its dedication to the Mohammedian faith, promise and swear and vow…that I will never reveal any secret part or portion whatsoever of the ceremonies…and now upon this sacred book, by the sincerity of a Muslem’s oath I here register this irrevocable vow…in willful violation where of may I incur the fearful penalty of having my eyeballs pierced to the center with a three edged blade, my feet flayed and I be forced to walk the hot sands upon the sterile shores of the Red Sea until the flaming sun shall strike me with the livid plague, and may Allah, the god of Arab, Moslem, and Mohammedan, the god of our fathers, support the entire fulfillment of the same. Amen. Amen. Amen.” – The Shriner’s oath, do ya think there’s a connection?!! To become a Shriner you must be a 32nd degree Mason and swear this oath. Just fun and games?! Yeah, right!!! WAKE UP AMERICA!!!
        You know we do a lot of talkin’ on this site about our nation’s ills, yet everyone always seems fine with ignorin’ the 800 lb. gorrilla in the room, it all points back to the Craft! I’m NOT skeered to go there!!!

    • CitySurvivor

      Eddie….. Your comment about “Air America” is totally off the wall. First of all, it wasn’t a “blog” site. It was another typical dem/lib/left wing hustle that survived on government handouts and Soros’ bankroll. The principals involved had nothing to contribute but typical left wing drivel and there isn’t much demand for that crap. The biggest bandit that came out of that fiasco was Foul Al Franken. He made off with MILLIONS for himself, all the while stiffing his staff and employees for their last few months wages. Nice guy, eh, Ed??? Now this non-funny “commedian” is sitting in that fetid pool known as the US senate. He fits right in there with the rest of the kennedy/byrd/ KKK bandits. The left is mentally and morally bankrupt. You guys have a lot in common with each other, but nothing in common with most of the truly free thinking, working Americans. I’m glad there are still chumps like you that like to keep picking at that “Air America” scab. Just when it’s out of most people’s minds…some imbecile brings up that pathetic attempt at “talk radio” and reinforces our original thoughts of what a bunch of dilated sphincters they were and how moronic their listeners and supporters are.

  • MAP

    Expect nothing from the Left but death and oppression. From the thousands guillotined during the French Revolution to the millions killed in the purging and murders of the Soviet Union and Red China, history records the blood soaked reality of this evil disease. Eventually it evens begins to devour itself, as evidenced by the slayings of Robespierre and Trotsky. Forget Iran, Russia and the Muslims, the enemy of Americans is right here in our own country. And one of these slobbering fiends sits in the White House!

    • MAP

      An example of the totalitarian, statist Left in action:

      • DaveH

        Good article, MAP. Thank you.

    • Tom W.

      And the first ones to get hacked up after they’ve assumed power, THE USEFUL IDIOTS!!!

      • Steve E

        Killing the useful idiots is the only good that comes out of it.

  • cawmun cents

    Coddling criminals is their way of letting you know how much they care.
    The obese evil juggernaut vulture of big gubment,has its way of keeping the socially inept under its wing.Progressives are agressive in their attempts to seem tolerant.They just want to give the criminally insane a proper place in their hierarchy in case they have to dispose of a threat,and then they can attribute the insanity to the individual,who obviously already has a jaded past.That way the whole mess can be easily tidyed up come idictment time.
    One of these individuals is tantamount to having a throw away,with the numbers filed off.
    The fact that they are batcrap crazy is a plus to those who wish to entice new ways of thinking into the party base.
    They turn to the constituent and tell them,”See how tolerant and forgiving we are?We are so dang forgiving that we should be called Jesus.We even let this person__________into our innermost circle to prove it to you.So you and your deviancy(whatever that may be, which is none of our concern at this point in time),are welcome here along with the greater group of malcontents associated with it.”
    Then if anything goes wrong,that person becomes an island to themselves.
    “Remember how fricking nuts that person was?”,they will chide,if something goes wrong.
    The fact is that they celebrate deviancy,the more the better,because it shows how much they tolerate their fellow human beings(to a point).The voting block they get is a tiny percent of the greater numbers,but since they work the abundant demographics angle,it turns out to be a significant percentage in the end.
    Rehabilitation is the key phrase.
    They actually believe they can rehab the criminally insane,at least for propaganda purposes.Just look at the media/academia carnival freakshow that they put on every four years called conventions.They trot out the biggest names in the Progressive Politico Party
    and have at the public,(who are used to having their superstars scandalous in nature)screaming like adoring teenage girls at a Beiber show.
    Red State=upright and uptight
    Blue State=downlow and clownshow
    It makes perfect sense to present ideology this way.With both sides trying to use the worn addage,Come over to the dark side Luke.”
    Instead of becoming a paragon to be emulated,the progressive has sown the seeds of his own destruction,by the use of widespread politically correct tolerance.An act of stupidity not overlooked by the populace at large,who is at the point of kicking somebodys ass who is too full of themselves to notice their drubbing coming fast on the wings of eagles.
    They hide deep in the illusory dementia of protection they imagine their constituency to contain,and only glimpse wht they believe is the righteousness of political progression.
    When they get their posteriors handed too them,(whether it be by the malcontents they professed to protect,or God in His infinite wisdom)there will be a clambor of joy and relief that is associated with things like this.
    Make no mistake you progressive powermongers out in perceptual protectionland,your time on the chopping block is nigh,You cant ignore God,and get away with it forever,despite what your scientific sorcerors tell you.
    I drink a toast to your arrogance again!

    • 45caliber


      And here I always thought their reason for coddling criminals was to have a stable of people on the side when they needed a crime committed!

  • sean murry

    That guy needs his ass kicked.

    • eddie47d

      This is a tit for tat between Walker and Kimberlin who are both strong headed and want to win. They love ruffling each others feathers and both have major anger issues. Considering that Michelle Malkin was mentioned doesn’t give this piece much credibility either . She blows everything out of proportion to enhance her readership also. Tabloid journalism anyone!

      • Bob Livingston

        Dear eddie47d,

        Do you ever engage your brain?

        Best wishes,

      • eddie47d

        You bet I do Bob and on a rare occasion you do bring up the radicals on the right although you never go into great detail on their shenanigans as you do against those on the left. . I have no problem with you bringing up this Kimberlin fellow for he may even be a danger to himself. He does have one heck of an ego problem but that could be said about quite a few on the right too.

      • JON

        To Bob, that wasn’t a nice thing to say to Eddie47d. “”Do you ever engage your brain?””

        I would expect a comment like that from others, but not you.

        Do you ever engage in the respect of others who may see thing differently than you?

        No, you don’t have to agree with someone’s opinion or believe what someone believes.

        However, your can disagree with be so disagreeable.


      • Bob Livingston

        Dear JON,

        All of eddie47d’s comments automatically go to moderation because he spends 95 percent of his time making unfounded attacks on authors and other commenters. Most of his tripe never makes it public. If you read the childish, unfounded and ignorant comments he makes all day long as I do, your response to him would be much less kind.

        Best wishes,

      • MAP

        Thanks for informing me of this, Bob. The comments of Eddie47 that I read are childish, ignorant and often insulting. I have a habit of bypassing the comment as soon as I see his name. And to think this is what made it through the moderator? Too funny!

      • Tom W.

        I think the answer to that question is quite obvious Bob! LOL!!!

      • Brad


        Eddie tends to jump in with both feet before researching the article, he’s a born again liberal full of hate. Eddie’s diatribe never has any meaning, but once in a blue moon he does make some sense but only once in a blue moon. Another problem with Eddie, he never backs his personal opinions with substancial facts and resources to back his claim. So Bob’s statement about Eddie wsa spot on because Eddie 90% of the time never engages his brain, if he would the other 90% of his posts would make sense.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        eddie47d is a liar and a shill! He accuses you of saying things you never said! He has nothing intelligent to say, so he lies! Whoever is paying him should find someone else because he isn’t even a good liar!

      • DaveH

        I doubt that anybody is paying Eddie. I think that he is just genuinely ignorant. There are others, though, that I think are being paid, such as Flashman.

      • Steve E

        If you ever want to show someone how stupid a Liberal is. Just show them eddie47d’s blobs.

      • Dennis48e

        ” I think that he is just genuinely ignorant.”

        I believe you are wrong DaveH. eddie is deliberately ignorant not genuinely ignorant.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        He IS a LIAR! Nothing ignorant about that! He knows he’s lying!

      • JeffH

        Dennis48e, I believe DaveH is correct, in fact, I know he is. After 3 years of reading eddie’s drivel one can understand that, in eddie’s case, “the chickens have come home to roost”.

      • Jibbs

        Nancy in Nebraska ,I agree with 100% that 47d doe’s try to put woeds in other peoples mouths.

      • JeffH

        Jibbs, :) and that’s been proven time and time again.

    • wandamurline

      There is a better way to silence him forever.

      • Tom W.

        Unfortunately it would cost you your fredom wandamurline, LOL!!! As much as the rest of us might disagree with eddie, he still has the right to his opinion. The brave men and women who gave ALL did so to defend his right as much as mine! We will ONLY remain a FREE country as long as we are willin’ to FIGHT for the right of the ones that we oppose the most, to voice their opinions! Now I realize that this is a lot easier said than done, but if it were possible to IGNORE eddie, I believe he would go away. But seein’s that it’s humanly IMPOSSIBLE to ignore such ideotic diatribe, eddie’s goin’ to be around a long time! Might as well embrace him, Jesus died on the Cross of Calvary for eddie also! I still like to see a picture of his grandson in his little Che t-shirt! LOL!!!

      • Paul Wells

        Umm…Interesting that you went there, Tom W. I think want wandamurline meant is to ban eddie forever so he’ll only be able to swap idiocy on the left wing web sites. Not a permanent dirt nap! Only the left “I don’t want any rules” crybabies can think of off-ing someone they don’t agree with!

      • eddie47d

        Ditto to you Paul! Those on the Right are always looking for excuses to shut the Liberals down. That the Conservatives self righteous arrogance will reign supreme and their world will be blissful. That doesn’t work for the Left so why do you think it will work for the Right.

      • Tom W.

        Paul with all due respect, you haven’t been around long enough, they want him in the dirt! LOL!!!

      • Mike in MI

        TomW – what in the name of Obama gives you such a low opinion of dirt that eddie is desired there?

  • Charles

    Dear Lord, what ever the country, what ever the party, please open the eyes of those bent on hate and hurt to stay in power. In the long run, good will and acts of love is what will win. Zechariah 7:9 & 10

    • Karolyn


      • Tom W.

        I surprized you didn’t choke Karlolyn!

    • Mike in MI

      Charles – One of the requirements of someone who intends to hold God’s Word forth to others is to rightly divide what you speak, write or whatever. If you mischaracterize it you make Him look bad…and foolish. Is that what you WANT?
      You post, though it is a hopeful thought, fails to handle verse 7:11 – “But they refused to hearken and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.”
      That precisely defines the Left because they don’t want to take God’s admonition on much of anything.
      It would be great if the left would make nicey-nice like in Zechariah 7:9-10 in accord with God’s instruction…but no. That would not further their intents and purposes. He doesn’t compell anybody to do anything. Either a person wants to do what is right or something else.

    • Tom W.

      [personal attack post removed]

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      I hope you didn’t miss the fact that Zechariah 7:9 says “Thus says the Lord of hosts: Execute true justice…”. If true justice existed, this man would still be in prison where he belongs!

      • Tom W.

        AMEN to that NiN!!!

      • Mike in MI

        Excellent Nancy – thanks I forgot about that. That’s one of the great things about being around people who love God and care about the thing that matters. Thanks for taking up the slack I left undone.

    • Marie Saqueton

      I pray with you Charles.As our founding father Thomas Hefferson, our 3rd Pres. said:”The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” He also said: “Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” 50% of Americans are now on government handouts….did we not learn from Russia?

      • GALT

        Now what would Russia have to teach you? What have we learned from The Great Depression? ( apparently nothing…..because we repeated the mistake in 2007, and the ability to do so was arranged by those that caused the ‘crisis’ with names like Phil and Wendy Gramm ( from Enron )…..ole Phil when he was foolish enough to think he could be elected president, was preaching about people getting out and pushing the wagon……when he probably had never ever seen a wagon…….We the people…….which begins the constitution……expresses the rather novel concept that governments exist to serve the people………so does the economy…….unfortunately, in BOTH cases… should be clear that neither seems to be doing that……….

        “To conquer, first DIVIDE! ”

        This short little tactic doesn’t guarantee the result, but it doesn’t take much to understand
        that it is definitely in play……..and most of the chaos which is quite visible, is pretty much self inflicted……..and it will continue to work, which also means that what is not working now and never really has worked, will continue not to work…….

        The cause of this should be obvious, because the divisions that exist consist of those who believe they have the answers and solutions, none of which are new……..

        This will continue for as long as it takes all of you to realize, there are no answers or solutions presently being offered that will work, nor will there be any until you start beginning to ASK the right questions.

  • Alex

    He sounds like a real creep, Bob, but how is it that you label him as a “Democratic Party operative”?

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear Alex,

      You write: “He sounds like a real creep, Bob, but how is it that you label him as a “Democratic Party operative”?” Follow the links I provided.

      Best wishes,

    • eddie47d

      James O’Keefe is a Republican Party operative (thanks for bringing him up) and as I say many times over there are manipulative creeps (extremists) spread out over a wide political spectrum.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      DUH! He is funded by them! Without them, he might have to get a real job. Same goes for you!

    • Steve E

      Alex, anyone should be able to figure that out by now.

  • http://none nick beck

    sean murry your idea goes in the right direction but NOT FAR ENOUGH——perhaps someone can publish this (expletive deleted) address – and that of his associates and leave the rest up to nature….

  • David

    It is a well known fact that liberalism is a mental illness. It has been proven. For you doubters out there, do your own research and look it up yourselves, I will not do your work for you.

    • Karolyn

      If you can’t post backup info to give credibility to your remarks, all they are is remarks without crediibility.

      • Brad

        By the way Karolyn, we already know you are a die hard liberal hack and we already know you have zero credibility on this site. So where are your resources to back up yur claims, turn about is fair play.

      • Tom W.

        [personal attack post removed]

      • DaveH

        I’m inclined to agree with Karolyn on this one. But, for sure, the Liberals are lacking of morality. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t so easily back Government Theft and Force.
        Again, I classify anybody who advocates Big Government as a Liberal. So many so-called Conservatives are really Liberals. True Conservatives don’t advocate forcing their personal choices on others.

      • Steve E

        Anyone with common sense can tell that liberalism is a mental order. It is self evident to those that observe.

        • Johnny Appleseed

          @Everyone. IMHO, Anyone who thinks that they are entitled to make a career out of politics has a mental condition… do those who choose to support them.

      • Karolyn

        Brad -When I write something that needs backing up, I post links. BTW, I am a centrist with left leanings.

        Tom – Ha! Ha! Your offensive remark got removed. Doesn’t that tell you something? Have you not gotten the message yet? Adults don’t talk that way.

      • Tom W.

        He he he, boil, bubble, toil, and trouble!!! Oh what a WICKED web we weave thar Karlolyn! Full moon 2nite goin’ flyin’?!!

    • Brad
    • Brad
  • Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

    I am disappointed that you would resort to such cheap tactics Bob. First lumping an entire party or viewpoint to the actions of a nut job, then lumping Ayres with this guy. Should we do a character assassination on the entire Republican and Tea Party because of James O’Keefe’s criminal and slandering activities?

    I have news for all of you misinformed people, there is a left progressive faction that is not interested in lying, killing, stealing. We are interested in healthy, sustainable, ecological, peaceful cooperative living. We believe that all troops should be brought home, all foreign bases should be closed. Banksters should go to jail and the media monopolies should be broken up. As a matter of fact all monopolies and too big to fail businesses should be broken up. We believe in medicare for all, people over profits first, sharing and cooperation.

    We don’t need to lie, steal or kill to make a better world. What we need is love and truth and a commitment to do what we have agreed to do and never encroach on other’s stuff. It’s not that complicated.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear Eric Bischoff,

      Follow the money.

      Best wishes,

    • Alex

      That is MY faction of the Progressive Left also.

    • MAP

      Eric, you sound like a likely candidate to be marched out and executed in the Leftist purging. When you destroy all existing traditions, conventions, and powers, nothing remains but the dictator that usurps all powers to himself. Study your history. Totalitarianism is the only outcome. It was in opposition to just such a government that the Constitution was written. Not only is the Left anti-freedom, anti-Constitution, anti-Christian and anti-American, but it is anti-humanity. Anything that stands in their way to total, absolute power is to be annihilated. No wonder all Leftist takeovers have been known as some form of ‘Terror’.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear Eric Bischoff,

      You write: “Should we do a character assassination on the entire Republican and Tea Party because of James O’Keefe’s criminal and slandering activities?”

      Please provide for me a side-by-side comparison of James O’Keefe’s “crminal and slandering activities” and those of Kimberlin.

      Best wishes,

      • jopa

        We could also lump Mitt Romney and Warren Jeffs as being cut from the same cloth.Now there is a scary pairing.

      • ReadBeforePreach

        Bob, your wasting your time trying to reason where there is No reason. I’ve always believed there were vermin like Kimberlin, funded by more bigger rats, who sit all day, unshaven, unwashed, stinkin, who blog liberal left lies all day.

        This folks are driven by pure hate, evil and arguing with them does not help your health. I like to pray and let God clean up the mess, for there will be judgement!

        Thanks Bob for your effort!

      • Alex

        James O’Keefe aside, Mr Bischoff’s point may have been missed by you (but I doubt it). Surely what he meant was that political parties, particularly those as massive as the ones in this country, throw an enormous umbrella over many different people.

        Whether determined through casual mental calculation or exacting demographic breakdown, one can be assured that both major parties, as well as just about any of the others of any significance, harbor pedophiles murderers, psychotics, and impassioned yet very misguided terrorists. Just look at Rush Limbaugh—he decries drug abuse except his own and all indications of his Dominican Escapades point to his pedophilia. Should I paint ALL Republicans with the same brush used on Rush (and that brush is absolutely ENORMOUS!!)?

      • Mike in MI

        Alex -
        Oh puhleeze. If you know that bout Mr. Limbaugh where’d you get it? And if you know it why, as much as every Lefty in the country hates Limbaugh, aren’t they all over it like a chicken on a june bug.
        Or is your last name Kimberlin, too?

      • JeffH

        Eric the Red is the self proclaimed board progressive.

        What does it mean to be a progressive? Who were the progressives, the political ancestors of the today’s Democrats?

        Progressivism advocates—then and now—a total break from the principles of freedom articulated in our founding documents, particularly the Declaration of Independence. It seeks to either get around or dismantle limitations on government power, the very constitutional limitations established in the Constitution for the protection of individual freedom.

        Progressivism was a major reform movement that began in the late 1800s. The movement shared the intellectual roots of European state theorists such as Hegel and Marx. In 20th century Europe their ideas came to fruition in the forms of communism in Russia, national socialism––that is, Naziism––in Germany, and fascism in Italy, respectively.

        These movements were ideological cousins of American Progressivism, certainly not isolated from one another; their respective leaders read the same philosophers and made the same arguments, albeit in their respective cultural contexts.
        Before the outbreak of World War II, American progressive intellectuals had many good things to say about Mussolini and Hitler. Their admiration for these dictators was drawn from their ability to mobilize and centrally plan national economies and society in general, to give “direction” to the otherwise “chaotic” social processes of democratic societies and capitalism. Progressives’ admiration for authoritarian rulers was not quelled after the ravages of the war were over. On the contrary, they went on to admire the machinations of Stalin’s heavy-handed ruling of the inhabitants of the Soviet Union.

        The progress sought in Progressivism was to be an ongoing process through which society at large would evolve benefit under the guise of “the state,” administered by specialists, scientists, and the expertise of elitst intellectuals. They also agreed that only government so populated with and administered by elitists could be up to the job. Such a government, they argued, has the resources and the expertise could accomplish such an organizational task.

      • GALT

        Freedom is Slavery, War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength……

        So if you are not a progressive, what would you be?

        Completing the sequence….. Progress is Regress?

        Here is an actual legal reply to a claim filed against you…..

        “I am returning your presentment without dishonor because it fails to evidence.”

      • Tom W.

        Hey RBP;, those Indiana boys on them Indiana nights! LOL!!!

      • Void1972

        Eric states,

        “Correct me if I am wrong but in a healthy democracy (something we preach all over the world at gunpoint) people would be informed and they would vote for what they collectively want. Then if it wins, it is implemented unless of course you’re in America where the losers obstruct everything and nothing gets done”..

        Eric, even with the majority of American’s not being “informed” about the health care bill ( “you can read it after it passes” polosi) most american’s 68% want nothing to do with it.
        You are an admitted communist and will one day reap the reward of being a “usefull Idiot”.

        God bless America and those who fight for her!!!!

      • Mike in MI

        Huh! Hey JeffH – What you just described sounds amazingly close to Plato’s “REPUBLIC” and the state proposed to be set up in that work. …And…people think Progressivism is SO-O-O-o-o avant garde. I remember someone in North Carolina around Henderson, NC once taught me that the purest form of “The REPUBLIC” ever set up in practice was medieval (feudal) Europe under control of the RCC.
        Thanks for reminding me, about that. I don’t think that sorry assed mess turned out so good for anyone except the Obama’s on top of that heap back then.

    • Ladyhawke

      You Mr. Bischoff are a fool. Medicare requires the theft of money, via taxes, from hard working people. Therefore, you ARE for theft. There can be no “putting people first” nor “sharing” (charity?) without first making profits. People have to earn money in order to have money to share and the government stealing it and then giving it to whom they please is theft and morally wrong. Life is not fair, get used to it.
      Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth (or type a comment) and remove all doubt.

      • eddie47d

        Receiving something you pay for is not theft. We could debate the merits of SS or Medicare until we are blue in the face but we could also discuss the pirating from private insurance companies whether health or savings plans.

      • Chester

        So WHO pays your medical bills? Or are you one of the lucky ones who has never been sick a day in her life and will die unattended because she refuses to admit she might need to see a doctor? For most of us, there is a choice, medicare or no care, as you can NOT buy insurance and live on the little bit of money, hard earned at that, that social security(another BAD word) pays. If you have insurance, other people are paying for YOUR care, just as surely as if you were covered under medicare. Plus, YOU are paying a bunch of very fat cats to sit on the money you give them and deny you the coverage you thought you paid for. Don’t believe me? Read your policy, then tell me what they HAVE to pay for.

      • UWorlds1

        Then all these little old white ladies that are living till 90 and have put NO MONey into the system need to be booted off the Medicaid/Medicare payrolls. And Social Security for that matter!!

      • Mike in MI

        chet -
        Believe me…it is entirely possible to maintain one’s own health by lavish use of reason, scientific information, natural health services and believing God’s promises and instruction and remain VERY healthy even well past 65 years. I’ll do anything to avoid the depredations of American medical attention. What I’ve seen them do would rot your brain.

      • DaveH

        Chester says — “If you have insurance, other people are paying for YOUR care, just as surely as if you were covered under medicare”.
        The difference, Chester, is that private medical insurance was Voluntarily purchased, unlike Medicare which is purchased by Force.

      • eddie47d

        The private companies have a habit of reeling you in and then give you a hard time about paying out. Neither government or private is all good or all bad Charging you more at the whims of the stock market doesn’t help the sick but only fattens the wallets of investors.

      • Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        Correct me if I am wrong but in a healthy democracy (something we preach all over the world at gunpoint) people would be informed and they would vote for what they collectively want. Then if it wins, it is implemented unless of course you’re in America where the losers obstruct everything and nothing gets done..

        As far as I am concerned and I know that I am not alone, medicare for all is the ultimate answer. It’s already in place. We pay into it and use it as needed. It’s the ultimate non-profit low cost insurance company. If you have any compassion or empathy, and we as a purported Christian should care, then we would all agree to cover everyone. Then we would make sure people have access to jobs. In an enlightened society, people might want to collectively pay into a system that insures that everyone is covered and has access to a doctor and healthcare. They may want to make sure that healthcare is a human right and that it is based on prevention and proper nutrition so that it costs less instead of subsidizing high fructose corn syrup (that’s the real theft) and then being faced with the cost related to a diabetic epidemic. After all, you are what you eat. Then once one understands the mechanics or the business side of it, they would realize that the most efficient system is a single payer system that only uses a small fraction for administration unlike our present parasitic wasteful for shareholder profit system. Then they would also understand that it makes a more productive and less dangerous society (infections and diseases are not interested in wealth or employment, they spread publicly).

        So if we collectively agree to a system and ideology, it’s not really theft now is it?

        If we don’t like it, we have choices in how we shop, where we live and how we vote especially locally.

      • Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        Disingenuous DaveH. Mr “I hate everything about the government”. If people choose a system and agree to collectively fund it and in the case of Health care if it is non-profit which it should be, then it’s not theft. Stop your BS propaganda. The private system is not the panacea answer to everything you would love it to be and you know it.

      • DaveH

        No, Eric, you have it backward. I don’t hate the Government, the Government hates me, or else at the very least they have contempt for my Freedom. Why else would they force me to give them money, or make my buying choices, or threaten to imprison me if I gamble, or sleep with a prostitute, or take drugs?
        And what do you mean “choose”, Eric? Most of us didn’t “choose” the Healthcare Bill, but now we are stuck with it — or else. If you really believed in choice, Eric, you would be a Libertarian. But you don’t. That’s why you’re a controlling Progressive. Choice is not 2 wolves and a lamb voting what’s for dinner.
        You, Eric, are the Propagandist, because you’re cloaking theft with the misleading use of the word “choose”. I can only speak the truth, unlike yourself.
        And the private system IS the panacea.
        Anybody who reads this book can learn that truth:

        And, by the way, Eric, I find your statement — “if it is non-profit which it should be, then it’s not theft” — to be nothing more than laughable.

      • DaveH

        I don’t even hate you, Eric. Actually, I think you’re very kind to subject your Progressive ideas to scrutiny, so that we Freedom lovers can give you the exposing you need.

      • DaveH

        And who would lead the Kinder Gentler society that Eric proposes? People like Eric?
        Here are some of the things that Eric has said about/to others:
        “they are greedy bastards”.
        “I can’t stand most Republicans”.
        “you[r] just full of hatred”.
        “Stop your whining and pay your taxes”.
        “It’s not fixed yet Dave and your free market idiots”.
        “That’s right numb nuts”.
        “who disagree with your selfish greedy fascist ideologies”.
        “he is just a rude ahole”.

        Yep, I just can’t wait for Eric and his people to have full control of our lives.

      • GALT

        No DavidH, there is no difference… security and medicare are voluntary, as is your choice to be subject to admiralty and maritime jurisdictions……. your ignorance is you don’t know how you volunteered and don’t want to know…….avoiding having to what is required to “unvolunteer”……and claim your rights……I understand, Ron Paul in 2012, and End the FED are so much easier to chant………the wisdom of those founders who never anticipated that “after they were all dead” the loophole in Article Three, could be used to duck Article 5 completely……UCC 1 -207, UCC 1-103

      • GALT

        COOOOLLLLLL so how does that work? Maximum ability but minimum need? Greater need but minimum ability? If that were going to be a determinant scale David, you would need to establish a base line………you seem to have one……..but tell us anyway?

    • Ted Crawford

      It should be interesting, to say the least, to see how you would meld the last few sentences of your post into a cohesive program!
      You state; ” All monopolies and too big to fail businesses should be broken up “, you later state; ” …never encrouch on others stuff ” ! The very act of ” Breaking up ” Privately owned business is the Dictionary defination of encrouching on others stuff!
      You also state; ” We believe in Medicare for all “, any attempt to finance, all of which have failed up to now, any such endeavor has also required that private property rights be encrouched upon!
      This makes plain two things: First, that your last sentence, ” It’s not that complicated ” is completely incorrect and secondly, Alex, that the faction you claim to belong to, exists only in Fantasyland!

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Good point, Ted. The utopia they envision still forces others to contribute. I believe in the constitution which says that the government shall make no laws that restrict the rights of the individual. If you envision a utopia, make it yourself with your money and your resources. My utopia is different than yours. I have the right to make my utopia. The government has no right to get involved because whatever side they choose to support will infringe upon the rights of those who disagree. Every person should be allowed to live the life they want on their own property (I am not suggesting that they can infringe on your property). It is not up to the government to make our decisions for us. Every person should take responsibility for themselves and charity should be left up to the individual.

      • DaveH

        That was Eric, Ted. But good expose’.

      • Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        You can have any business you want but when you ask the state for special favors and protections by incorporating in that state then we the people of that state should have the right to ask for certain things in exchange. Originally corporations were not meant to live forever and didn’t always get their renewals. We may want to go back to that as well seeing how some abuse us and the planet and walk away from their responsibilities.

        We also have laws against monopolies but these are a joke too these days. We have an SEC that is afraid to go after the big violators, and FDA that is in bed with Monsanto. The problem is not just big government and I could go on. The problem is bought up big government. It is big business and big government rigging the game, it is modern day fascism.

      • Bob Livingston

        Dear Eric Bischoff,

        What do you believe is the purpose of a business?

        Best wishes,

      • Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        If you want to know what I believe should be the purpose, then I would say that businesses should have a balanced purpose to provide services and products, to provide employment in the society, to be a responsible partner of the community and to make profits for investors. I personally would favor worker owned businesses over absentee shareholders who have no skin in the game but that’s me.

        I also believe that eventually all of the activities should go through the filters of: is it healthy? is it sustainable? is it ecological? If it does not meet these criteria, it does not really deserve to survive. Of course that’s utopian but it does not hurt to dream and who knows maybe we will all be forced to operate that way in order to survive.

        • Bob Livingston

          Dear Eric Bischoff,

          Sorry. You are incorrect. A business has one purpose: make money.

          Who has the moral authority to say a business should provide services, products, employment or be responsible? Who decides what constitutes adequate employment, adequate wages? Who decides what constitutes “responsibility?” Absentee shareholders have no skin in the game? What about their money, which they have invested if they are shareholders?

          You are certainly free to start your own business and run it as you see fit. If you want you can then provide services and products as you like. You can employ as many and as few at whatever wage you want. You can use your proceeds or services to to perform whatever “responsibility” in your community you desire. You can put your workers in charge, if you like. But what gives you or anyone else the authority to decide how I–or anyone else–run my (our) business?

          You write: “I also believe that eventually all of the activities should go through the filters of: is it healthy? is it sustainable? is it ecological? If it does not meet these criteria, it does not really deserve to survive.” Again, upon whose moral authority are these things decided, and what gives that person (organization/department, etc.) this authority? “Is it health?” By whose standards? “Is it sustainable?” By whose standards? “Is it ecological?” By whose standards? This is quite arbitrary, is it not?

          It is, as you admit, quite utopian, quite authoritarian and quite unrealistic.

          Best wishes,

      • DaveH

        “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”, eh Eric the red?

      • Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        Dear Bob here are my replies.

        Dear Eric Bischoff,
        “Sorry. You are incorrect. A business has one purpose: make money.”

        I am sure you are right, many people believe only that. But isn’t that also called greed and isn’t that why we’re in this mess? Too many greedy bastards.

        Who has the moral authority to say a business should provide services, products, employment or be responsible?

        If the state provides the incorporation charter papers it has the right to dictate some rules, renewable yearly.

        Who decides what constitutes adequate employment, adequate wages?

        The State could have fair living wages appropriate to the location. It certainly costs a hell of a lot more to live in NYC than to live in a small town in Wyoming.

        Absentee shareholders have no skin in the game?

        Yes that’s right they are cleless and ruthless and they and the boards allow CEOs to rob the tiller even when things are not going well. And lately It seems that a lot of it is other people’s money (borrowed). They never care if you move the factory to China and a thousand people lose their job and the community is left destitute?

        What about their money, which they have invested if they are shareholders?

        Good question but should it really come before or be more important than a workers livelihood and a destruction of his family’s well being? That’s why I like the worker owned model. They have skin in the game. They don’t want their workplace to leave the community and move to a state that is offering tax favors or another country that has slave labor wages and no regulations to control pollution. The sooner we have more companies structured that way the more stable things will be.

        “You are certainly free to start your own business and run it as you see fit. If you want you can then provide services and products as you like. You can employ as many and as few at whatever wage you want. You can use your proceeds or services to to perform whatever “responsibility” in your community you desire. You can put your workers in charge, if you like. But what gives you or anyone else the authority to decide how I–or anyone else–run my (our) business?”

        I am merely making suggestions on how we might want to change our thinking. Although I am planning on setting up a new business in this fashion. These are ideas being discussed while faced with many serious problems due to our current beliefs about business. Unless of course you like how things are playing out. The rich being richer than ever. Record corporate profits. Banks sttting on Trillions not willing to loan out and help. Tax coffers empty, Flat wages for the last 30 years. Muktiple bubble bursting and nothing much left to burst. And let’s not forget billionaires openly buying politicians.

        You write: “I also believe that eventually all of the activities should go through the filters of: is it healthy? is it sustainable? is it ecological? If it does not meet these criteria, it does not really deserve to survive.” Again, upon whose moral authority are these things decided, and what gives that person (organization/department, etc.) this authority? “Is it health?” By whose standards? “Is it sustainable?” By whose standards? “Is it ecological?” By whose standards? This is quite arbitrary, is it not?
        It is, as you admit, quite utopian, quite authoritarian and quite unrealistic.

        Utopian, maybe but shouldnt we think big?
        Authoritarian yes, if we don’t collectively agree and have laws to run things that way.
        Unrealistic, not at all.
        We may not have a choice much longer.
        We are quite capable of setting better standards.
        I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about which 3 filters would serve us best.
        Does this product help making you healthy or unhealthy.
        Let’s be honest science already knows these answers
        but big money has made sure the knowledge is not well known.
        Sustainable is a no brainer and can be adjusted as things change
        Ecological is the equivalent of health for humans but this time for the environment
        This one has been abused for too long by corporations who make record profits because they are allowed to walk away from this responsibility and leave future tax payers with the burden of clean up. Enough already.

    • Dennis48e

      “… people over profits first, …”

      Without profits there would be nothing for the government to steal from the porductive and give to those the peoplewho contribute nothing. Who in their right mind would go into business knowing they would never make a profit and be able to better their comndition?

      • Johnny Appleseed

        Like yourself, many have missed the present day concept of fascist capitalism……. …….socialize losses while privatizing profits

      • Dennis48e

        johnny you don’t have a clue what I am talking about do you. Your statement can only apply after a business has become large enough to influence government by way of bribes, favors, etc. I am talking about the little man. The owner who works 12-18 hours a day 6-7 days a week to make the business a success so he can better provide for his family.

      • Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        I think you have it backwards. Without people willing to buy your products there would be no profits. People need to come first. This is where this country has gone wrong. Without a healthy middle class there is no consumers left and you end up with the mess we have now.

        People are the real job creators. Their demands for certain products cause the supposedly job creators to hire to fulfill the demands. Wake up people. No jobs, no money, no products or services sales, no tax revenue. So who are the real job creators?

      • Dennis48e

        “Without people willing to buy your products there would be no profits.”

        While it is true you have to have a customer willing to purchase your product for that to occur you have to have a product they want or need at a price they will pay. If you cannot make a profit on your goods then you cannot continue to furnish said goods to the people. If the goods cannot be furnished to the people then they are meaningless as far as that product is concerned.

      • DaveH

        Eric says — “I think you have it backwards. Without people willing to buy your products there would be no profits. People need to come first”.
        But people WOULD come first, were it not for the Progressives who aid Crony Capitalists, regulate our UnFree Markets, and generally force their way on the rest of us through Big Government.
        Yes, Eric, “People are the real Job Creators” — those who invest their own money, their own time, risk, and sacrifice to be successful. But then, your kind do their best to drag them down and help yourselves to their money, don’t you?

    • DaveH

      Eric says — “We don’t need to lie”.
      Then why do you do it, Eric?
      Here is a link to just one of Eric’s recent lies (do a find on the phrase “let’s say eric knows” to get to my exposure of his lies):

    • Alan

      Ok – So a true collective society. I get that due to the fact that this is very close to Paleo-Conservatism and stoic Jeffersonian republicanism with a sharp difference, namely I work for what I have acquired. I keep what is mine and I am a conservator of the land where I draw my wealth.

      You’re right, “We don’t need to lie, steal or kill to make a better world.” But this statement confounds me due to it is not of the normal left’s creed: “What we need is love and truth and a commitment to do what we have agreed to do and never encroach on other’s stuff.” Other’s stuff implies we get to keep what we’ve earned and this doesn’t go to the collective metality because, you have to take to give others.

      Now this is quite divergent from the left: “It’s not that complicated.” Lefties are always telling me that my ideas about current events “are not that simple.” Just the one quote from Abe Lincoln: “You cannot do for people permanently what they could and should do for themselves.” is always decried as over-simplified by lefties. This one quote says enough and the response I get from lefties says everything about their position, namely: Confussion.

      I will always go to the private sector because I have choice as opposed to the government that is compulsive by its very nature.

  • T. Jefferson

    Time to put these creeps out of business and in jail where they belong. This has gone on too long. It is time to clean house of the scum that have invaded out system and return America to freedom loving people.

  • Power To The People

    The money trail never lies. Great point Bob!

  • nc

    Dear Mr. Livingston, are you sure it was never “reported” that Kimberlin once read a newspaper that contained the name of President Obama??? How “damning” would that be to both parties? When a hatchet job contains words like “it was reported”, by God only knows who or why, one can expect all kinds of allegations! Also the obvious SELF-SERVING” one sided” reports of incidents not observed by the writer further raises suspicions as to veracity!

    The liberal side has its’ share of people who do wrong things in their life and that hurts us greatly considering that people like you and the other right wing factions have NONE(?)! Have you selected your next stone?

  • ReadBeforePreach

    what crap. this punk needs his butt put in jail or worse. Here’s the problem, the freakin lawyers, what petty bs. he sued him and he sued him and some fetid sordid judge is going to make a decision.

    an eye for an eye, if this scumbag wants to play like that, this “swatting” let’s find out where he lives and play likewise. How can the police take these calls, send a squad to a house and not take the callers information? call trace? whos’ responsible for making fake calls?

    this is all you need to know about these funders:

    George Soros-backed Tides Foundation, which provides most of the funding for the left-wing hate site Media Matters; the Barbra Streisand Foundation; and Heinz Family Foundation, led by Teresa Heinz Kerry, wife of Senator John Kerry (D-Mass.). Other listed funders are the Fidelity Investments Charitable Gift, Schwab Charitable Fund, Threshold Foundation and the Silicon Valley Community Foundation.

    • Alex

      It’s weird that you call yourself “ReadBeforePreach”, ma’am, because you cannot seem to write. What is it, if you don’t mind, that you “read”?

    • Chester

      Might want to take a good hard look and see how many CONSERVATIVE groups these same foundations help support. You might be very surprised by what you learn.

      • Bob Livingston

        Dear Chester,

        You write: “Might want to take a good hard look and see how many CONSERVATIVE groups these same foundations help support. You might be very surprised by what you learn.” Please enlighten us.

        Best wishes,

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      If you or anyone else “swatted” him you would go to jail!

      • Jazzabelle

        He’s not talking about doing it himself, Nancy. He’s talking about making a false report to the police of a very serious nature, that would get a SWAT team sent to the victim’s house. It’s possible to do that anonymously and not go to jail.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Chester, these groups do not support conservatives! All I can say to you is, prove it!

  • Gea

    Calling names is not going to solve the problems in the world. Look at what people do and not what they say, especially in the case of Barak Husein Obama who behaves more like a Caliph-in-Chief than a Commander-in-Chief. He extolls Islam and Koran while dissing Bible and uses taqiyya (lies allowed under Islam when living in non-muslim majority country) in his courting good hearted people in US and elsewhere, who fall for this “political correctness”.

    By his bowing to Saudi King, whose subjects committed 9/11 while shouting Allahu Akbar, and by cavorting with Islamists of Muslim Brotherhood and Taliban, Barak Husein Obama is endangering not only US soldiers but US and the entire Western civlization.

    Barak Hussein Obama should be retired in November and sent packing to Chicago to write Dreams of My Mother, to explain how this intelligent women fell pray to two lying Muslim/Marxist guys, a Kenyan father and Indonesian stepfather, who may have shaped his deep conviction of Islam when Barak Hussein lived as a Muslim boy in Indonesia from age 6-10. Obama may not be able to help his real loyalties, but we can help him in November, by sending him back to Chicago.

    • nc

      Gea, maybe we should get another Republican President LIKE bush, the Crawford Cretin, who didn’t bow to the Islamist HE WALKED IN THE GARDEN HOLDING HIS HAND FOR CHRIST SAKE!! GONE IS BIN LADEN! TO WHOM SHOULD WE BE GRATEFUL FOR THAT MOVE TOWARD WORLD PEACE! Home are the troops from Iraq which has lessened the dying of young Americans greatly! Bad move on Obama’s part?????? Exactly what Dr. Paul would have done! Since you seem to have little respect for Obama as our commander in chief do you think there would be American troops in Afghanistan if Obama hadn’t found them there when he took office! Do you think there would be a Gitmo if it wasn’t in operation when Obama took office?? Him being so “weak” on terrorism as the wingnuts claim!!!

      On foreign affairs he is much closer to the Republican Paul than the wingnuts of the Faux Noise Republican right!

  • Alex

    Following the money trails is a great way to learn about things, Bob, and there are lots of them.

    Now, thanks to the activist Supreme Court, many of those trails, especially those marked with cairns of gold, are being camouflaged or simply blown off the surface of the Earth by the Citizens United ruling. There are a few money trails that would be both greatly surprising and hurtful for most of your PLD readers—

    Follow the money trail from Republican Senator Ensign’s father to the trusting staff worker whose wife the junior Ensign was sexualizing.

    Follow the money trail from the Cheney Wing deep beneath the White House to Halibuton, KBR, Bechtel, and Blackwater/Xe—-billions of dollars to private companies in a fake war for profit drawn up long before 911. Some of your readers may have lost loved ones in that fake war while the Capitalists slurped at the trough.

    I gotta go to bed—there are so many many more, Bob—but here is a simple one for your simple readers—follow the very clearly marked trail from “fair and balanced” Fox News to the Republican Governor’s Committee–very clearly marked because there is a cairn every mile with a dollar on top—-and the trail is ONE MILLION miles long!! Now, if I, as a journalist gave ONE MILLION dollars to a political party, just how fair and balanced do you THINK I would be, suckers?!?

    • Brad

      Alex, where is your proof to back up your claims.

      • Mike in MI

        Forget it, Brad -
        How are you going to get anybody in the Republican elitists wing to admit all the Leftist things Bush pulled off under the gise of conservatism? Why do you think the Left has moved so many things to be able to make their claim that capitalism is the cause of all things evil in the world?
        Government subsidies for non-competetive businesses started with the Progressive left just to make today’s dispute look tenable.

      • Brad

        Mike in MI, the only thing you need to look at is the total in deficit spending this administration and congress has approved. 1/3rd of the total deficit has been propogated by this administration alone. When does the spending end and fiscal responsibility begin, when does this administration begin to take responsibility for its actions because Bush has been out for over three years. When does Ohmama take responsibility for his actions and whats been done to this great nation!!!

      • Mike in MI

        Brad – Do Believe Me. I’ve been watching and listening with the same concern and disgust as you.
        I’m just pointing out how sly and conniving the Prog’s have been over time to get to this point where they can put forth the finger at capitalism as being the cause of the world’s ills. Actually, weak sisters and slugs in the business and service sectors have crawled to big government lovers in Congress to buy protectionist laws, regs and influence to kill capitalism and kill any sort of level proving grounds. Everything gets weighted off-kilter and ultimately makes socialism SEEM a superior, workable alternative.
        Just read the posts of the people who crawl out from under the bridge to comment here. Most of them aren’t stupid. They just know only one thing – what they were taught in screw-wells. Then, they tied their brains together with their diplomasto keep everything else out.

    • jeep

      Well, at least Fox News is putting their money where their mouth is…unlike every other “news” network (MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, etc, etc, etc) that are truly in the tank for Obama!

    • ReadBeforePreach

      yea, go to bed alex, sleep it off. you sound as though the republicans only engage in this behavior. you sound like your a liberal blogger sitting at home, snorting dope and pushing the leftist crap. who funds you?

  • mike

    I have a new hero in Mr kimberlin will start regular contributions thanks for the heads up bob

  • factnotrhetoric


    This Dictatorship calls itself “LEFT” or “SOCIALISM” and lies to the Ignorant Masses. The Dictator proclaims he will give everything free to everyone, to overthrow the government. Under a Left Wing Dictatorship, the new Dictator owns everything, and gives nothing to the Ignorant Masses. The Dictator owns the oil under the ground, the nuclear power plants, the munitions factories, the drug trade, the taxes, the printing of money, and the military.

    The Democratic Left has been overrun, and is now controlled by, the Saudi Organized Crime Syndicate and the Saudi FAR LEFT or the Saudi ARAB SPRING.

    Sharia Law is written BY the Drug Lords, OF the Drug Lords, and FOR the Drug Lords to overthrow governments. Sharia Law is written in Mecca by the Saudi Organized Crime Syndicate.

    Other names for “DEMOCRATIC LEFT” are now:
    1) Sharia Law Left and Sharia Law Terrorism; also called a Radical Islamic Dictatorship
    2) Sharia Law Socialism and Sharia Law Terrorism; also called a Radical Islamic Dictatorship
    3) Sharia Compliant Financial Laws and Financial Terrorism; also called a Radical Islamic Dictatorship

    • eddie47d

      You need to lay off the rhetoric and present some facts for you didn’t have any!

      • Jay

        Wow, look who’s demanding people present facts, rather than rhetoric; eddie, the tireless- champion of propaganda, opinion, and rhetoric! You amuse me to no end, Mr. Marx! lol…

    • Alex


      You have produced a screed which is entirely rhetoric and ZERO facts!!

      • Bob Livingston

        Dear Alex,

        You write: “You have produced a screed which is entirely rhetoric and ZERO facts!!” That’s a humorous comment, coming from you.

        Best wishes,

      • factnotrhetoric

        I was hoping Alex would answer.

        Alex, we all know that socialism and the far left can’t work. Any 6th grader could tell you that. But what can work, as we just saw in Greece and Spain, is bankrupting the US Government by promising the Ignorant Masses Obamacare, free medical, free welfare, free food stamps, free unlimited unemployment checks.

        The Sharia Law Left is obviously bankrupting America. Bankrupting America is required under Sharia Compliant Financial Laws.

        In 4 short years, Obama is personally responsible for $6 Trillion of our $16 Trillion Dollar Deficit. This was in concert with Financial Attacks, led by the Left and George Soros, that took down the banks in 2007 and 2008. The attacks were simple. They were ILLEGAL NAKED SHORT SELLING OF BANK STOCKS THROUGH AN UNTRACEABLE BLACK MARKET. According to Kevin Freeman in “Secret Weapon” the Left Illegally Naked Short Sold 13 times more stocks than the actual total number of stocks that were even available for some of these companies. They did this in a concerted 3 day period.

        But look at the facts, this is not about Democrats or Republicans, the far left is borrowing over $1Trillion US Dollars for these endless wars every year Obama has been in office. Yet these endless wars are for Obama to put Saudi Organized Crime Syndicate Sharia Law into the constitutions of IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN, EGYPT, LIBYA, TUNISIA, YEMEN AND OBAMA’S BIRTHPLACE OF KENYA. Now the left wants new endless wars with Syria, Iran, and Israel.

        Look at the facts, George Soros, and 4 Hedge Funds, met in New York in 2010 to plan a concerted attack on Greece through NAKED SHORT SELLING MORE GREEK TREASURY BONDS THAN ACTUALLY EXISTED. You can see the end result of the Far Left Illegal Attack. The same attack is planned on US Treasury Bonds between now and the November elections.

        Look at the facts. George Soros is funding the Occupy Riots, and Occupy Terrorism, with the help of the Muslim Brotherhood. This is the same George Soros funded the Arab Spring Riots, in concert with his Bear Attacks, around the world to overthrow democracies.

        Alex, I know this is a little hard to confront if you thought the Far Left was actually workable, but our American Democracy is under attack by a Martial Law Dictatorship. Sharia Law and Sharia Compliant Financial Laws were written, by the Saudi Organized Crime Syndicate, as a blueprint for the Financial Terrorism, not as a religion.

      • JeffH

        fact, you used the term “American Democracy” which is in fact progressive rhetoric…try American Republic or Constitutional Republic but please do not confuse a republican form of government with a democracy.

        An Important Distinction: Democracy versus Republic

    • factnotrhetoric

      Thanks. I stand corrected and, I must admit, I had no idea there was a difference.

      The Sharia Law Left should then claim that, “A Constitutional Republic is only an illusion”, not say, “A Democracy is only an illusion.” I’ll need to correct them next time. :-)


      • JeffH


      • DaveH

        Good man, Fact.

  • chris

    If you are anywhere near Oboo Boo don’t talk bad about him because if he hears you you may go to Jail as A terririst and be put in jail!! He passed a law that says he can

    • factnotrhetoric

      If you read Obama’s last executive order, he can call any American a Yemen Terrorist, take all of our possessions and put us in jail.

  • Raggs

    I’m surprized that this lunatic isn’t working for the white house… Or is he?

  • Johnny Appleseed

    Don’t hate the player, hate the game…….to blame one party more than another (or one man, for that matter) is comparable to blaming only the internal combustion engine for air pollution and ignoring the belching smokestacks of the factories. The 99% are the victims of fascist capitalism (capitalism run amok by those with a “God complex”) and will soon be left with only revolution as their only option. The theft of their civil liberties and forced gun control will be instituted under the guise of homeland security, gang control and the war on drugs. “If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns” is a phrase not just reserved for thugs on the street, but also for those in power (of ALL political persuasions) who wish to control those who cannot be intimidated by the media or a misguided police/military force. Enforcement of laws like The Patriot Act and others will incarcerate those who cannot be conventionally silenced and government surveillance and control of the internet will enable the mainstream media to propagandize, unchecked. Although this Personal Liberty site may not suit my political tastes (or anyone else’s), it still deserves the right to exist. Censorship or control of any kind cannot be tolerated for once the first stone is allowed to be placed in the river, it won’t be long before EVERY river of dissension will become a target for those who wish the flow of information (truth) to be dammed up and stopped. By the time “they” dam YOUR river, it will be too late to stop them. One must remember that CNN, Fox and the rest are not sources of “news” but merely conduits of highly controlled propaganda intended strictly to divert the attention of Americans and keep the perceived “2 opposing sides” arguing amongst themselves over items like racism, Medicare, social security and war while our liberties are eroded right before our eyes in the name of “fixing” these “inequalities”. We are fed only tidbits of these items, but never the real crux of the problem. Face these facts: the drug companies don’t want a cure for cancer, they want a regimen of treatments to control it – governments don’t want peace, they want a controlled, extended military effort – politicians don’t want to pass good legislation, they want to pass laws that reward those who vow to keep them in career positions of power (which in actuality makes them subservient to those influences and thus POWERLESS) and wealth. It’s all about money, control and the greed of both.

    Of course, this is all JMHO.

  • Bruce Waldo

    having lived in indy at the time and my inlaws knew the victims of the bombing he actually ficked the gym bag hence the damaage to his leg i cant descrtibe how frightening it was as i recall there was also the use of a grass runawy airport just south of undianapolis that kimbrerlin was using for importing drugs innocent residents were afraid to attend speedway high school football games that was sadand frightenig it was defginitely a terroritsic action i remaini never heard ofabout the connection with liberal americai iremained suspicious oif any object on a sidewalk for years even in downtown indianapolisit was a comfort when he was found guilty and was removed from the streets of marion county and speedway i wassnt the only one whol looked for objects on thesidewalks

  • Bill Coleman

    I tink it is time for a good fact based article or book on how and why the left and Islam are in bed together or has it already been written. I’m thinking that it goes beyond them having a common opponet.

  • Bill Coleman

    See my comment above. IF it has already been written, please provide url below.

  • Ray Shelton

    Hi Bob,
    Where does Karl Rove fit into the scheme of things? Isn’t he guilty of horrible acts during the Texas gubernatorial race as well as during the presidential election of George W. Bush? And God knows what else during W’s Whitehouse years (where Karl and a whole lotta of others such as Cheney had a free hand and ran amok). Just askin.

    I love your views on alternative medicine, investment strategy, etc…but your political views (sometimes) seem to be almost as asinine as those of people like Rush Limbaugh. I find this truly puzzling. Oh! and lest you mistake me for a “lefty”, I currently prefer Ron Paul (who is NOT a liberal/progressive and what have you, like one of your uninformed readers posted in his comments…Ron is a TRUE LIbertarian. I do not count you among Libertarians based on what I read in your newsletters. Am I wrong? I really wish you were not that myopic when it comes to politics…your views on other matters are so balanced. You are in such a good position to inspire others…but instead, I feel that sometimes you instill needless hatred and anger towards the left. This is uncalled for…there are good and bad elements on both sides of the political divide. I still respect your work though, warts and all.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear Ray Shelton,

      You write: “Where does Karl Rove fit into the scheme of things? Isn’t he guilty of horrible acts during the Texas gubernatorial race as well as during the presidential election of George W. Bush? And God knows what else during W’s Whitehouse years (where Karl and a whole lotta of others such as Cheney had a free hand and ran amok). Just askin.” Non sequitur.

      You write: “but your political views (sometimes) seem to be almost as asinine as those of people like Rush Limbaugh. I find this truly puzzling.” Please explain.

      You write: “I do not count you among Libertarians based on what I read in your newsletters. Am I wrong?” No.

      You write: “I really wish you were not that myopic when it comes to politics…your views on other matters are so balanced. You are in such a good position to inspire others…but instead, I feel that sometimes you instill needless hatred and anger towards the left.” I am beholden to no party. I will go after those who oppose and attempt to subvert the Constitution regardless of who they are.

      You write: “This is uncalled for…there are good and bad elements on both sides of the political divide.” The “political divide” is a false paradigm designed to keep Americans at each other’s throats while elites do their work to enslave us.

      You write: “I still respect your work though, warts and all.” Thank you.

      Best wishes,

      • boyscout

        I don’t know if any have commented yet (am still fairly new to your blog) but I truly enjoy the varying impact of your sign off: “best wishes”. Please don’t let me down and please continue with such.
        Best wishes,

    • DaveH

      Asinine, Ray?
      Bob sometimes speaks in arcane language, but that is only to those of us who haven’t yet broken free of the terrible burden of Propaganda instilled in us since birth.
      I am confident that if you do enough reading, especially at, you will find that Bob is almost always right on target.

    • Jay

      Ray says: Oh! and lest you mistake me for a “lefty”, I currently prefer Ron Paul (who is NOT a liberal/progressive and what have you, like one of your uninformed readers posted in his comments…Ron is a TRUE LIbertarian.

      Of course not Ray, please perish the thought! Just because most, if not all, lefty’s, use the exact same line, is besides the point. For you, however, we’ll make an exception! lol….

  • uvuvuv

    the repubs simply think that the dems are misguided and confused, but trust that they will eventually wise up, while the dems want the repubs dead. if you read some of those mnnbc vines you will get that picture. when the rapture comes if the book of revelations is to be trusted, think of the awful people left behind. i really think it’s the repubs that keep society as nice as it is. sorry to use the word nice. the dems don’t even like each other, but stand in solidarity if a 12 year old wants an abortion on the sly.

  • uvuvuv

    i have seem lots of clever plays on the name obama but i just thought of my own, obanana.

    • boyscout

      Acceptable. Americans should be careful not to sit on that one too long though.

  • Bill Coleman

    @RAY SHELTON. Your first paragraph amounts to an undocumented smear. And..what has that whatever it refers to got to do with mitt Romney? Ron Paul was his own worst enemy. I liked tlegallyhe fact that he held the Constitution up as the supreme law of the land. However everything he said about Islam led a person to suspect that he might appoint a Muslim judge. If Ron Paul could have said these words he would be the candidate with 1144 delegates “I will use the Constitution to defend the Constitution and

    • DaveH

      The problem with Ron, Bill, is that he takes the Constitution so seriously — Like Freedom of Speech, or Freedom of Religion. Shame on him.

  • Bill Coleman

    ABOVE CONTINUED: legally defeat Islamic Terror in the USA.

  • Mirage

    Between the hyperbole crap from the left, and the Right-crap from articles like this, nothing close to the truth can be found: all 3 of our political parties put party ideology above country, and this article, just reinforces that contention.
    Here, they’re only interested in their way, or the high way … no compromise whatsoever. And so, a stalemate is the result, and nothing gets done … politics as usual.
    Many of the articles found on sites like this (and on the Left), do nothing more than stir the pot of hatred in an attempt to maintain the political divide so that the real truths of how to solve this nation’s problem remain undiscovered. The goal is to keep the power in the hands of the elites on the Right, and on the Left, and leave Main Street once again, out in the cold; in the dark.
    Months ago when I suggested perhaps people like the Koch brothers contributed money to Right-Wing sites like this, I was told my statement was basically “ridiculous”.
    Yet last week I got an email from THIS SITE asking to donate money to Wisconsin governor Scott Walker in his fight to NOT be recalled by his own citizenry! If this site doesn’t love the Republican Party, and truly wants a political change that deviates from the Republican Party, then why are they looking for money for Republican Scott Walker????
    Walker is outspending his opponent 4 to 1 because outside money pouring in from out of state. Walker is owned by people like the Koch brothers, and if you doubt this, google the 20 minute conversation he had with a man impersonating Charles Koch.
    Lastly, do you want change instead of the sample old crap with nothing changing for Main Street U.S.A.?
    Well, don’t hold your breath, because short of social movements like Occupy Wall Street, with some violence mixed in, nothing is going to change, and things will get worse, except for the elites on both the Right, and the Left.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear Mirage,

      You write: “Months ago when I suggested perhaps people like the Koch brothers contributed money to Right-Wing sites like this, I was told my statement was basically “ridiculous”.” Your statement is ridiculous. I do not “take” money from anyone. Our site is solely supported by advertising.

      You write: “Yet last week I got an email from THIS SITE asking to donate money to Wisconsin governor Scott Walker in his fight to NOT be recalled by his own citizenry! If this site doesn’t love the Republican Party, and truly wants a political change that deviates from the Republican Party, then why are they looking for money for Republican Scott Walker????” As the majority of our subscribers identify themselves as either Republicans, Tea Party members or libertarians, does it not make sense for someone soliciting donations for a Republican cause to advertise to our subscribers? Are you suggesting we should reject Republican advertising? Should newspapers and broadcast networks reject advertising from Republicans? What about Democrat advertising? Allowing organizations and campaigns to advertise on the site does not necessarily imply endorsement any more than it does when newspapers and broadcast networks and stations accept political advertising.

      Best wishes,

      • Mirage

        Being an independent who puts country first, I have a problem with outside money influencing state politics, particularly for a candidate like Scott Walker, who is simply a mouth-piece for the Koch Brothers i.e. his 20 minute conversation with a Koch impersonator.
        This outside money has allowed Walker to ou- spend his Democratic foe by 4 to 1!
        Why not let the Wisconsin voters and their home-grown money sans out of state money, determine who will lead them???
        Here in Montana, our attorney general is currently embroiled in a law suit with Citizens United, A RIGHT WING POLITICALLY CORRUPTIVE MONEY DONOR, who compliments of the U.S. Supreme Court, allows unlimited contributions of corporations toward political campaigns on federal and state levels.
        Citizens United is trying to over ride our state’s law that forbides out of state money going toward Montana political campaigns.
        I say: let Montanans decide who our politicians are; NOT OUT OF STATE MONEY!

        Have you noticed that the groups that want unlimited political campaign contributions tend to be Right Wing …. the very groups that decry big government??
        Yeah, you guys want small government until it comes to Abortion, Religion, Defense Spending, Who can get married etc., then you guys want to MAKE people live by your rules!
        I’d like to see the abolishment of ALL parties so voters can vote on the issues/independent candidates, versus having to vote across party lines in defense of party over country.
        Of course, this will never happen … the most independent voters can hope for is a third party, and or, OWS type organizations taking to the street (perhaps with some violence mixed in) and FORCING CHANGE.
        Lastly, you speak of how corrupt the system is and the need for sweeping change, and yet, here you are in support of a Koch Brothers candidate in Scott Walker???
        Be consistent, and tow YOUR LINE … nobody likes a flip-flopper.

      • Bob Livingston

        Dear Mirage,

        This is quite a rant. I will not respond to all of it. However:

        You write: “Being an independent who puts country first, I have a problem with outside money influencing state politics, particularly for a candidate like Scott Walker, who is simply a mouth-piece for the Koch Brothers i.e. his 20 minute conversation with a Koch impersonator.
        This outside money has allowed Walker to ou- spend his Democratic foe by 4 to 1!
        Why not let the Wisconsin voters and their home-grown money sans out of state money, determine who will lead them???” I have no problem with anyone spending their own money on whatever cause they support. I do believe large donations should be disclosed. You apparently don’t believe in freedom.

        You write: “Why should YOU AND THE KOCH BROTHERS HELP DETERMINE WHO LEADS WISCONSINITES???” I have no influence over who Wisconsinites vote for.

        You write: “Have you noticed that the groups that want unlimited political campaign contributions tend to be Right Wing …. the very groups that decry big government??” Your statement is untrue.

        You write: “Yeah, you guys want small government until it comes to Abortion, Religion, Defense Spending, Who can get married etc., then you guys want to MAKE people live by your rules!” Who is “you guys” and how do you know my opinion on things I have not written about? Supposition.

        You write: “Lastly, you speak of how corrupt the system is and the need for sweeping change, and yet, here you are in support of a Koch Brothers candidate in Scott Walker???
        Be consistent, and tow YOUR LINE … nobody likes a flip-flopper.” Apparently you did not read my previous comment.

        Best wishes,

      • DaveH

        It takes money, Mirage, to get the message out. Incumbents generally like nothing better than to limit campaign contributions because they have had the face time that leads to re-election by a passive apathetic electorate who often vote purely on recognition or some other superficial aspect.
        No matter how much money is spent on a campaign, the voter ultimately has the final decision (unless of course there is voter fraud).
        By the way Mirage, what say you about this?

  • 45caliber


    Do me a favor. The next time you update your site, please insure that if you start typing before the computer puts up the “Post Comment” button that it will still appear. Right now you have to start over.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear 45caliber,

      Our tech team is unable to replicate this condition. Might you be using an older computer, outdated browser or have a slow connection?

      Best wishes,

      • DaveH

        If I reload the page, then as soon as the scroll bar shrinks (indicating the comments have been loaded) drag the scroll bar to the bottom of the page, the normal comment format is there. But after waiting about 5 seconds, the page re-centers on my last location. At that point when I go back to the bottom of the page the “details” fields and “post comment” button are gone.

    • DaveH

      I have experienced that also, but only if I jump to the reply box before the page has finished loading.

      • JeffH

        …ditto that…

  • copakeman

    why wasnt kimberlin made to serve the entire 50 year sentance in prison ?

  • Bill Coleman

    I appreciate anyone working to defeat Obamma in November. This does not include any conservative who will not vote in november or any conservative who will vote for a loser 3rd party candidate in november.I think I understand the threat of Islam to Constitutional Freedom.I have come up with some “bottom line” questions and statements concerning Islam. Please critique the following: “We will get sharia law whether legal or not unless Islam and anything like it is made illegal in the USA or unless we endure a bloody civil war and win. With the Constitution being what it is and Islam being what it is, why are unconstitutional acts of muslims or Islam or anything similar legal? Most of our voters and elected politicians have neen taking us down the road to hell on Earth. Learn how to talk to strangers about what makes and will keep the USA a great place to live and work.”

  • JeffH

    Here is some pretty informative and interesting info about Kimbrlin and his criminal activity including audio of Patterico’s swatting. Lee Stranahan provides some basic background on Kimberlin(video).

    Michelle Malkin May 23, 2012 – Free speech blogburst: Show solidarity for targeted conservative bloggers; Update: It’s Everybody Blog About Brett Kimberlin Day…The late Andrew Breitbart warned about convicted Speedway bomber Brett Kimberlin and company.

  • kRIS

    The title of this was democrats and terrorists. I DIDN’T KNOW THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE!

  • Bill Coleman

    AMEN KRIS!! Democrat = Socialist = Communist = Islam = Dictatorship. Socialism will take away the rights which allow us to defend the Constitution and will just be a steppig stone to a dictatorship. Cowards will not prevent this process, legally or otherwise.

  • boyscout

    Not sure that you have a democrat in Kinberlin – more like a sociopath ex-con with some jailhouse legal experience and, of course, a bad attitude. I do find it distressing that the Libs and the courts would allow any concessions to this miscreant. However, I have no trouble conceding the lawyer’s involvement or that that lawyer will probably wind up holding some public office one day. So too very disappointing !

  • MontieR

    Why is it if you refute an outright lie a liberal makes with fact they vehemently attack you personally. Somehow they are stuck in the third grade. There is no sense, common or other. Liberalism is a MENTAL disease.

    • Irish19

      it is a mental disorder but a very real concern to anyone who believes in capitalism and constitutional liberty. The hope and change mantra is a typical marxist ploy. I think you will get a better idea who Obama really is if you read “Radical-in-chief” by Stanley Kurtz. he is a true marxist and is trying to lead us to our destruction as a free society. He is dangerous as are all his comrades. Van Jones, Bill Ayres, Reverend Wright, David axelrod, Larry Summers, Richard Trumpka, These are just a few of those trying to bring this country down. We are at a crossroads and another 4 years by Obama will be a total dictatorship. He is already circumventing congress because they will not adopt his radical policies. he is a very dangerouse man and he becomes more dangerous every minute he is in office. He is a dicider not a uniter and he must be thouroughly trashed in the next election. People like you need to understand how anti-american he really is and pass along info to others so they are armed to defeat him in 2012. He is willing to destroy our sovereignty as a nation and turn all authority over to the U.N. We need a President who will take us out of the U.N. and ally with true democratic countries. Now is our time to take back our country from all those who would destroy us.

      • nc

        Irish 19, You say another 4 years under Obama and we will be a total dictatorship! ONLY AN IRISHMAN COULD BE THAT DUMB!
        According to other “irishmen” types here Obama is already moving to cancel all elections in Nov. 2012! Have you seen any movement by the military to put that ” conspiracy” in motion??? Where was that?? What is you evidence, other than a paranoid mind, that we are headed for a dictatorship!


      • JeffH

        nc, the only one showing how “dumb” they are is you!
        I see you believe all the Irish to be dumb based on your ignorant comment.

      • Mike

        The results of the election in Nov 2012 will not even be counted in the US. Spain won a bid for the tabulation.

        When the Spanish online voting company SCYTL bought the largest vote
        processing corporation in the United States, it also acquired the means
        of manufacturing the outcome of the 2012 election. For SOE, the Tampa
        based corporation purchased by SCYTL in January, supplies the election
        software which records, counts, and reports the votes of Americans in 26
        states 900 total jurisdictions across the nation.” The fact that the
        same company will have first count on all votes made in 14 US states and
        hundreds of jurisdictions in 12 others, and the stage is set for
        election fraud on a scale unimaginable just a decade ago. SCYTL
        self-proclaimed the security of its systems, but when the machines were
        used in the District of Columbia, the University of Michigan fight song
        “The Victors” was suddenly heard after the casting of each ballot. The
        system had been hacked by U of M computer teachers and students, in
        order to demonstrate their susceptibilities.

        George Soros, who loves socialism and Obama, has controlling interest in the company that will be counting the votes. Think Romney has a snow balls chance in Hades? Hah, think again. I hope close to one million people write in Ron Paul and the tabulation shows only a fraction just to prove it is a fraud.

        This is just one more rung in the communist ladder of their plan to destroy America. Destroy the peoples faith in the election system.

        I miss my parents but I’m actually glad they are not alive to see what is happening to America. It would break their hearts.

        Communist bastards think they are going to crush us using the courts and the manipulated elections system. Got news for them. They are going to incite a shooting war which they think will allow them to declare martial law. That will be their downfall. There are too many patriots who will not let it happen.

        Oath keepers
        Minute men
        Constitution party

        The socialist/communist bastards are finally going to get what they have earned. Problem is, a lot of decent people are going to get harmed in the process.

        Thomas Jefferson warned us, The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

        Be ready or be made into a slave.

      • DaveH

        How many NC’s would it take to install a lightbulb?
        1 to hold the bulb, 2 more to turn the ladder.

  • Irish19

    liberals are now progressives. Actually progressives go back over a century. Once people caught on to their socialist beliefs, they became liberals. That too became an albatross for them so now Hillary started up once again the progressive movement. See Hilliary Clinton is no better than Obama. A true socialist at eart wanting America to be one of 2 classes(The elites and the poor). socialism can only become reality if the middle class is eliminated. This is exactly what Obama and his socialist, marxist friends are trying to do. through George Soros, labor unions and the likes of this scumbag they are trying to transform us into a socialist state. Wise up America. If you vote for Obama in 2012 you are voting to cement our death as a free Republic.

  • wnettles

    The mafia would have just sent in a “cleaner” to take care of Kimberlin.

  • William 1

    If and when they get power this idiot will be the new Eichman-he needs to be dealt with swiftly!

  • Neil Swan

    It’s the religious right in the countries including ours that are terrorists. Like the people who shoot abortion doctors and the guy who blew up the Oclahoma City Federal Building.
    Progressives are for the country moving ahead. The tea part is a group against the country
    and there are other groups like them.


  • brett

    reality has left the building!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! every one of you needs to take the time to study political ideology: from the when and why they were first conceived, to how those conceptions have changed to their current distorted perceptions.

  • Jay

    Many on the left today call themselves “progressive,” and they do so not just because it’s a nicer way of saying “liberal,” but also because they very much intend to revive the political principles of America’s original Progressives, from the Progressive Era of the 1880s through World War I. Why would leftist politicians, like Mrs. Clinton, purposely identify themselves with this Progressive movement?

    The reason is that America’s original Progressives were also its original, big-government liberals.

    Most people point to the New Deal era as the source of big government and the welfare state that we have today. While this is perfectly accurate, it is important to understand that the principles of the New Deal did not originate in the New Deal; rather, they came from the Progressives, who had dominated American politics and intellectual cultural a generation prior to the New Deal.

    We have no less an authority on this connection than Franklin Roosevelt himself.

    When FDR campaigned in 1932, he pointed to the Progressives – and in particular to Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson – as the source of his ideas about government.

    In terms of the personalities who made up the Progressive movement, some are familiar to us and others are less so. The movement was comprised of well known politicians like Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt; but it was also comprised of intellectuals and writers who are less well known but who have been very influential in America.

    There were folks like John Dewey, who was America’s public philosopher for much of the early 20th century.

    Even less well known was Herbert Croly, but Croly was highly influential, since he founded and was the first editor of The New Republic – which became the main organ of Progressive opinion in the United States, and is still one of the most important journals on the Left today.

    I should add here that Woodrow Wilson actually fell into both of these categories – he was both a well known politician and president, but also was, for decades prior to his entry into politics, a prominent intellectual (a college professor and president of Princeton) who wrote many books and influential articles.

    These Progressives wanted a thorough transformation in America’s principles of government, from a government permanently dedicated to securing individual liberty to one whose ends and scope would change to take on any and all social and economic ills. Here’s the order of the points to consider:

    1) What did Progressives think about the American founding, and why did they want to eradicate its principles?

    2) How did we get today’s excessively powerful presidency from the Progressives?

    3) What was the connection between Progressivism and Socialism? Were the Progressives actually Socialists?

    4) What are some of the critical connections between Progressivism and what’s going on in our country today?

    II. The Progressives and their Attack on America’s Founding

    America’s Progressives aimed for a thorough transformation in America’s principles of government. While our founders understood that our national government must have the capacity to be strong and vigorous (this is why the Articles of Confederation were failing), they also were very clear that this strength must always be confined to very limited ends or areas of responsibility; government, in other words, while not weak or tiny, was to be strictly limited.

    The Progressive conception of government, on the other hand, was quite the opposite; Progressives had an “evolving” or a “living” notion of government (yes, we get the term “living constitution” from the Progressives), and thus wanted government to take on whatever role and scope the times demanded.

    The Progressives reasoned that people of the founding era may have wanted a limited government, given their particular experience with George III, but they argued that people of their own time wanted a much more activist government, and that we should adjust accordingly.

    Quite simply, the Progressives detested the bedrock principles of American government.

    They detested the Declaration of Independence, which enshrines the protection of individual natural rights (like property) as the unchangeable purpose of government; and they detested the Constitution, which places permanent limits on the scope of government and is structured in a way that makes the extension of national power beyond its original purpose very difficult. “Progressivism” was, for them, all about progressing, or moving beyond, the principles of our founders.

    This is why the Progressives were the first generation of Americans to denounce openly our founding documents.

    Woodrow Wilson, for example, once warned that “if you want to understand the real Declaration of Independence, do not repeat the preface” – i.e. that part of the Declaration which talks about securing individual natural rights as the only legitimate purpose of government. And Theodore Roosevelt, when using the federal government to take over private businesses during the 1902 coal strike, is reported to have remarked, “To hell with the Constitution when people want coal!” This remark may be apocryphal, but it is a fair representation of how TR viewed these matters.

    III. How the Progressives Originated the Modern Presidency

    The Progressives wanted to disregard the Constitution in order to enlarge vastly the scope of government. As a practical matter, how was this to be done? It happened in a variety of ways, but principal among them was a fundamental change in the American presidency.

    Under the system of our founders, government was to have sufficient strength and energy to accomplish its ends, but those ends were strictly limited by the Constitution.

    The principal way in which the Constitution keeps the government within its boundaries is through the separation of powers. As readers of The Federalist and of Thomas Jefferson know, the point of separation of powers is to keep any one set of hands from wielding all of the power in national government.

    The Progressives, especially Woodrow Wilson, hated the separation of powers for precisely this reason: it made government inefficient, and made it difficult, if not impossible, to expand the power of government so that it could take on all of the new tasks that Progressives had in mind. So they looked to the presidency as a way of getting around this obstacle.

    Under the original system, the president was merely leader of a single branch, or part, of the government, and thus could not provide leadership of the government as a whole.

    In his book Constitutional Government, Wilson urged that “leadership and control must be lodged somewhere.” The president, Wilson pointed out, was the only politician who could claim to speak for the people as a whole, and thus he called upon the president to rise above the separation of powers – to consider himself not merely as chief of a single branch of government, but as the popular leader of the whole of national politics.

    Wilson even contrasted the “constitutional aspect” of the presidency – its constitutionally defined role as chief of one of the three co-equal branches of government – to the “political” function of the president, where he could use his connection to public opinion as a tool for moving all of the branches of government in the direction called for by the people.

    It was in this way that Wilson believed the original intention of the separation of powers system could be circumvented, and the enhanced presidency could be a means energizing the kind of active national government that the progressive agenda required.

    IV. Progressivism and Socialism

    Since the Progressives had such a limitless view of state power, and since they wanted to downplay the founders’ emphasis on individual rights, it is only natural to ask if they subscribed to socialism.

    There are several things to consider in answering this question.

    First, when considering the relationship of progressivism to socialism, we must be clear that we are talking about the similarity in the philosophy of government; we are not suggesting that America’s progressives were the kind of moral monsters that we see in the history of some socialist or fascist regimes (although it is the case that their racial views – particularly those of Woodrow Wilson – were indeed morally reprehensible).

    Second, we must also bear in mind that there was an actual socialist movement during the Progressive Era, and prominent progressives such as Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt were critics of it.

    In fact, Wilson and Roosevelt both ran against a socialist candidate in the 1912 election (Eugene Debs).

    The progressives were ambivalent about the socialist movement of their day not so much because they disagreed with it in principle, but because the American socialist movement was a movement of the lower classes. The progressives were elitists; they looked down their noses at the socialists, considering them a kind of rabble.

    Keeping these points in mind, it is, nonetheless, the case that the progressive conception of government closely coincided with the socialist conception.

    Both progressivism and socialism champion the prerogatives of the state over the prerogatives of the individual.

    Wilson himself made this connection very plain in a revealing essay he wrote in 1887 called “Socialism and Democracy.” Wilson’s begins this essay by defining socialism, explaining that it stands for unfettered state power, which trumps any notion of individual rights.

    It “proposes that all idea of a limitation of public authority by individual rights be put out of view,” Wilson wrote, and “that no line can be drawn between private and public affairs which the State may not cross at will.”

    After laying out this definition of socialism, Wilson explains that he finds nothing wrong with it in principle, since it was merely the logical extension of genuine democratic theory.

    It gives all power to the people, in their collective capacity, to carry out their will through the exercise of governmental power, unlimited by any undemocratic idea like individual rights. He elaborated:

    “In fundamental theory socialism and democracy are almost if not quite one and the same. They both rest at bottom upon the absolute right of the community to determine its own destiny and that of its members. Limits of wisdom and convenience to the public control there may be: limits of principle there are, upon strict analysis, none.”

    Roosevelt, too, argued for a new conception of government, where individual natural rights would no longer serve as a principled boundary that the state was prohibited from crossing.

    He called in his New Nationalism program for the state to take an active role in effecting economic equality by way of superintending the use of private property.

    Private property rights, which had been serving as a brake on the more aggressive progressive policy proposals, were to be respected, Roosevelt argued, only insofar as the government approved of the property’s social usefulness. He wrote:

    “We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community. This, I know, implies a policy of a far more active governmental interference with social and economic conditions in this country than we have yet had, but I think we have got to face the fact that such an increase in governmental control is now necessary.”

    Progressivism and the Current Crisis

    There are important connections between America’s original Progressive Era and the crisis we are facing today, and it is useful to consider these connections on two levels.

    The first connection is at a general level, and concerns our abandonment of the Constitution.

    The present crisis did not appear out of nowhere, and didn’t simply begin with the election of Barack Obama.

    Politicians of both parties spent the better part of the 20th century disregarding the Constitution, as they looked to have government step up to solve every conceivable human problem.

    Thus it ought to be no surprise that the Constitution’s limits on government aren’t even part of the conversation today as our politicians debate the new interventions in our economy and society that seem to come daily.

    Such a state of things would have greatly pleased America’s original progressives. As the original progressives believed that the role of government should be determined not by our Constitution, but by whatever the needs of the day happened to be.

    This is why they sought to eradicate talk of the Constitution from our political discourse; today, that goal seems to have been realized.

    The second connection between the original Progressive Era and our situation today has to do with policy.

    The progressives knew that our original system of government was not capable of handling all of the new tasks that they had in mind for it. So they envisioned creating a vast set of bureaucratic agencies.

    They argued that Congress should enact very broad and vague laws for supervising more and more facets of the American economy and society, and then delegate to the bureaucratic agencies the power and discretion to enact specific policies.

    Both Woodrow Wilson and Theodore Roosevelt conceived of government in this way.

    The New Deal certainly went a long way toward implementing this progressive vision, and what we have seen in our own situation with TARP and the various other interventions is simply greater steps toward the progressive plan.

    Our Congress has simply said to the Treasury agencies: here’s a trillion dollars, here’s all the legal authority you need, now go out, determine what is in the public interest, and spend and regulate accordingly.

    That is the progressive vision of government, in a nutshell.

  • Jay

    How the socialist are destroying America from within.

  • Jay

    Although Barack Obama is the first black President of the United States, he is by no means unique, except for his complexion. He follows in the footsteps of other presidents with a similar vision, the vision at the heart of the Progressive movement that flourished a hundred years ago.

  • Jay

    In recent years, Democrats have argued that requiring voters to show photo IDs prior to voting is an egregious act of voter suppression.

    Ben Jealous, of the NAACP, has gone so far as to argue that such requirements are tantamount to modern-day Jim Crow laws. In the world they inhabit, lots of voters don’t have access to photo IDs, so requiring voters to provide this will “disenfranchise” them and leave them out of the democratic process. Funny they don’t feel that way for their own party conventions.

    On Saturday, Massachusetts delegates will meet in their state’s Democrat party convention.

    The votes of these delegates will determine whether there are primary elections for their party nominations. With so much at stake, Democrats have decided to implement Voter ID requirements:


    Wait, what? Democrats tell us that photo ID requirements disenfranchise minority voters, who, inexplicably, have limited access to photo IDs. Yet, at their own convention, they insist that all delegates provide a photo ID to even have access to the convention floor. When their own party is at stake, it seems their priorities are somewhat different that their rhetoric suggests.

    If the Democrats actually believe the rhetoric from people like Ben Jealous, then they have disenfranchised scores of potential delegates with this photo ID requirement.

    If, on the other hand, they instituted the photo ID requirement to ensure the integrity of the votes of the party delegates, they should repudiate the NAACP and work to ensure that their own rules carry through election day.

    Voter ID is good for me, but not thee, is not a winning campaign slogan.

    • Void1972


      The corruption in these United States are at an all time high. The new obamanation.

      If a person is too ignorant not to get a photo ID, they really don’t deserve to vote!

      The problem is that all of those ignorant people are democrats.

      Go figure

      • Wildey

        A Tyrant can be defined as a person who expects all people to give in to his will and appetite. A tyrant needs bait to trap his subjects and that’s the fruits taken from the people’s labors. People forget to associate all wealth comes from their fruits of their labors. Of those living on the dole Paul says..He does not work? why should he eat. They look at the public purse as a product of magicians. It’s just there. People wouldn’t think of robbing their neighbors house but they’ll step into a ballot box and do just that, republicans, democrats, liberals and conservatives.

    • Kate8

      Jay – Democrats are that way about everything. It’s always heads they win, tails we lose…

      They manage to get tax monies to fund their special “projects”, such as ACORN, ACIU, Planned Parenthood, etc., yet anything conservative gets NO money. So, we have to pay to fund things we abhor, but not the other way around… always the double standard with them.

      It’s like that with EVERYTHING they do. Straight, white Christians can’t utter a word which might possibly be construed as “hurtful” toward someone, yet they can say anything they want, even if it’s downright nasty or even threatening.

      The voting thing is always to insure that whatever the rules are, they work in their favor. They’ll lie, cheat, steal, threaten and even kill to win. They are beyond disgusting.

      • Jay

        Yup, you described them to a tee, Kate8!

      • Wildey

        It took seventy five years of persecution and apathy for the Colonist to say enough is enough and write the Declaration of Independence. Even then the handful bold enough paid with their blood and tears. Pick a name off the Declaration of Independence and show me his equal today? The only one in politics is Ron Paul. I’m sure he has managed to gain followers like his son but they are generals without armies

  • http://Yahoo Maynard

    I read a lot of this and while much of it is clever I found it less than substantive. People use terms like Democrat or Republican as if they equate to Liberal or Conservative. The terms are meaningless without a clear definition of what they represent. I, myself, am undergoing a change, so I understand the problems involved in pinning things down.
    First, let me point out that people like Kimberlin are operatives not philosophers. They use labels to further their ambitions and could care less about principles. To put him as the epitome of a liberal is incaccurate and unfair. The same would be true if referring to Karl Rove as a Republican or a Conservative. These men are ruthless pragmatists. Like Machiavelli they believe the ends justify the means. There is little regard for ethical behavior. Check out the death of Mike Connell who was scheduled to testify at the Ohio Election inquiries, for example.
    The important point is not the verbage these types spew forth, it is the actions they perform. The so-called conservative Bush Administration greatly increased the size, power and scope of government and did so by violating the Constitution. They achieved this through 9/11 which could not have happened solely because a group of NOT fanatic young men were brought here after the CIA pulled strings and ignored regulations in Saudi Arabia. Now we have the so-called liberal Obama Administration going along with the shredding of the Constitution through the NDAA 2012 which was passed by a wide bipartisan majority. Ironically, supposedly polar opposites, Dennis Kucinic and Ron Paul, were among the few that see this grab for power as a threat to our freedoms and security.
    I supported Ron Paul and still will if he is willing to leave the aim of being labeled a Republican and runs as an Independent. If not, either Obama or Romney will continue big government for the further enrichment of the military-industrial-financial power elite.
    The will continue to pass the bill on to the middle class of this and future generations.

  • Pingback: Townhall Friday by Col. David Tooker (USA) Retired |

  • Wildey

    We must always remember the Democratic Party was not what it is. In the later part of the 19th century and in early 20th, they truly were against a federal gov’t as opposed to state gov’ts which is what the Republican Party was all for. Karl Marx’s teachings were being sown in America as well as in Russia and the godless socialist that they were infiltrated the Democratic party. They were the rock being thrown to the crowd and turning it into a mob. Blue collar workers are followers instead of leaders. They want security instead of taking chances and seek out a good leader. On that premiss the democratic party grew to what it is today. “When I blowa da whis, everybody offa da dock.” Kimberlin undoubtedly knows that about people when it suits him, throws a rock. The mob he creates gives him the headlines he is seeking and all know he has the media and government on his side. The serpent said to the mouse,,”Come, let the two of us become one”. Save the mouse.

    Good people can make the mistake of getting to close to the Kimberlin’s. In politics they say, go close enough to get warm but not so close you get burned. The trick is, turn his own games against him. Walker is doing just that in Wisconsin. Everything about godless socialist, democratic leaders, is a lie. Their lie is being exposed as Obama’s lies have not worked, not that they could’ve. Don’t confront democrats, teach them. Point out where they have been living a lie at the hands of their leaders and at the same time, a better way.

    The lie was exposed in Russia and, once enlightened, they threw out the communist scum when Reagan and Gorbachev got together. Look at what 24 years did to Russia with the rejection of the godless socialist slime. We haven’t gone as far as the Russian people and if we repent to the God that made the founding of America possible, we can have a new birth. John 3:16

  • Wildey

    Well said. In the history of the world there never has been countries with 3 class societies that lasted very long. The upper class feeds on the middle class until a lord / serf situation is accomplished. What is a political label without a statement of principles. good or bad? That said, what are today’s republicans and democrats, as far as that goes, what are conservatives and liberals? In the book of Jeremiah we’re told, man is a servant, it only matters who he serves, Satan or Christ. In those names we can find statements of principles, black and white. John Adams said..”This Constitution is for the governance of a moral and religious people. It is unfit for the governence of anyother”. There we can find what made America great and todays principles that are destroying America.

  • Henry

    Unfortunately it seems like Democrats =Tories, they want us under European control.

  • hatmat

    I once argued with my father as he once said;’you can put any politician in a bag ,be they Democrat,Republican,or other wise and when you dump them out, they all come out the same.” After the last four years of seeing our government at work,I am sick of their lies,failed promises,and I am especially tired of working my life away only to watch how the politicians of all parties figure out how to take it away from us.I agree wholeheartedly with wildey.God has been pushed aside by greed and corruption.The charges go throughout all parties.I fear that our present government has forgotten what the Boston Tea Party was about and moreover what it eventually led to!We live in scary times and I truly worry about our children and grandchildren.We are the cornered mouse but the snakes better beware.

  • FEDUP!

    Great post Void: You nailed it! I wish everyone else would see things for what they are.


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