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What You Won’t Hear At Tonight’s Debate

October 22, 2012 by  

What You Won’t Hear At Tonight’s Debate
UPI

Tonight is the final installment of the Kabuki performance called the American Presidential debates. While the ideologues, talking heads, spinmeisters and party hacks get all hot and bothered over what is said in their efforts to reinforce the false left/right paradigm, what is not said – and, in fact, never discussed in the two single-party choreographed gab fests inaccurately called debates — is much more telling.

So here is my (partial) list of things you won’t hear — but should — from the mouths of one or the other of the two puppets vying for the “highest office in the land.”

Despite what we’ve been saying for months, Presidents do not create jobs in the private sector. We can advocate policies that either get government out of the way of job creation or stymie job creation. We can foster an environment that is friendly to job creators and encourages job creation. But there is no way I can say of a private sector job, “You didn’t build that; I did.” I would like to tell you that I can make you a job, but I would be lying. Such honesty would be refreshing but no doubt misunderstood by the voting public, which has come to believe in an all-powerful government.

On my first day in office, I’m going to give a copy of the Constitution with Article I, Section 8 highlighted to each of the 435 members of Congress and tell them that any legislation that does not fit into the parameters of the 17 enumerated powers contained therein will be vetoed, even if it means reducing the power and perks I would enjoy as President. The Presidency has essentially become a four- or eight-year monarchy. The Founders purposely divided government into three branches (and further divided one of those branches in two) in order to keep it out of the hands of a despot, an oligarchy or a plutocracy. As James Madison wrote in Federalist No. 58: “An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others.” In Federalist No. 10 he wrote: “[T]he great security against a gradual concentration of the several powers in the same department consists in giving to those who administer each department the necessary constitutional means and personal motives to resist encroachment of the others.” The Congress has abdicated its authority to the President on the issues of legislation, the Federal bureaucracy and, more importantly, war powers.

The National Defense Authorization Act and the USA Patriot Act are unConstitutional and violate the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th Amendments and should be repealed immediately. I will do that. Self-explanatory.

Government is too big, too oppressive and too totalitarian. I’m going to do all I can — within the bounds of the Constitution — to reduce the size and scope of government as quickly as possible. Some of the things I do will be unpopular, but I will do them without concern for my future political prospects. A number of Federal agencies could and should be eliminated immediately. Many of them duplicate functions and overlap. These could be scaled back immediately with no impact on government services that people have to come to rely upon. The Department of Energy, formed into its current iteration under President Jimmy Carter in 1977 to formulate a comprehensive national energy plan, is a failed entity that should be immediately abolished. Other failed and bloated entities include the Environmental Protection Agency and the departments of Homeland Security, Education, Housing and Urban Development, Commerce and Interior. Some of the functions of these agencies could be rolled into other departments; some would be delegated to the States where they belong. Unaccountable Federal bureaucracies lead to wasteful programs like the $27 million spent teaching Moroccans how to make pottery. Think for a moment: In 2000, President Bill Clinton submitted a budget of $1.8 trillion. The Federal government’s 2012 budget was $3.7 trillion. An immediate cut of $1 trillion would put the United States at 2006 spending levels. Do you recall seeing vast numbers of Americans going wanting in 2006?

We should not be talking about how we’re going to “pay for” tax cuts. That is the wrong conversation. We should be talking about how we’re going to relieve the individual tax burden and eliminate unConstitutional government, including the Federal Reserve. Income taxes are not about funding government. As Ben Bernanke has shown, the Federal Reserve can print money to infinity. The Federal government does not need income taxes to function. Income taxes are simply dossiers on American citizens. The unConstitutional and not-Federal Federal Reserve should be shuttered, and we should return to sound money.

Our meddling in the Mideast has made things worse, not better. I will bring the troops home beginning on day one and re-evaluate our defense needs and protect our borders. The United States has been meddling in Mideast/Persian/North African affairs for more than 75 years. Can anyone honestly say that our campaigns of political intervention, in which we have set up puppet governments and brought them down again, and/or bombing and war campaigns have made Americans safer? The U.S. military should be used for national defense, not Pax Americana or nation building. U.S. troops should not be patrolling and being killed on the borders of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria while U.S. borders go unprotected.

I will immediately end all foreign aid programs. America should not be propping up dictators or providing military defenses for other countries. It does not fall within the Constitution.

I know this is not going to make me any friends in Washington – and, in fact, will make me many enemies — but the way to begin removing control of the Congress from special interests is to repeal the 17th Amendment. I will make this my priority from day one. When Senators are appointed by the State legislators — and subject to removal by the same — they are beholden to the people of their States, not special interests. That’s what the Founders intended and what the system should return to.

We are both rich guys. Neither one of us really understands what you in the middle class go through each day as you struggle with your job, try to keep your clunker running, balance your checkbook, get your kids to school, go to PTA meetings, coach Little League, take care of grandma’s health needs, help her buy and take her medicines, etc., because we have servants who help with that stuff. But I vow to meet with you as often as possible in your cities and towns so I can hear your concerns rather than continue to insulate myself within the halls of power where I am constantly told by staff how wonderful I am. Self-explanatory.

We both have accounts in the Cayman Islands. We do this because, just like you, we want to keep as much of our money as possible. So we hire armies of expensive accountants to find tax shelters. This is proof our tax system is broken. Once we close the Fed and return to sound money, some form of taxation will be required. I will work with Congress to reduce and finally eliminate as many taxes as possible and make the tax system friendly and fair so that people like you who can’t afford expensive armies of accountants to help you find tax shelters can keep more of your money just like us rich guys do. Self-explanatory.

If we don’t get a handle on the Federal government, spending and inflation are going to send our economy into hyperinflation. Politicians try to hide this because it allows them to continue spending with impunity which makes it easier for them to line their pockets. Because our government has become a fascist corporatocracy, the prospects of any fixes are not good. What I will try to do will be met with much resistance. So you should prepare for hyperinflation by stockpiling food and water and weapons and ammunition and gold and silver as quickly as possible. The elites would never say this; therefore, few will be prepared when it comes.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Karolyn

    What happened? Now Livefyre ia gone. Guess they’re having problems?

    • Alex

      Must be that Y2K bug…

    • Spencer Cameron

      Hi Karolyn,

      Yes. Unfortunately, Livefyre is down as a result of issues with Amazon hosting. We’ve disabled the service until further notice to allow everyone to continue commenting. We realize recent comments made using Livefyre have disappeared and we are working to restore those.

      Thank you for your patience,

      Spencer

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        It is easy, one is a islamist, one belongs to a cult but, the second doesn’t kill to inforce it’s beliefs, the other will kill you to get what they want, which one? Can’s see it? Shouldn’t be allowed to vote, to stupid, to dumb and a idiot.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jayson

        Actually, they are both Federal-Reserve ponies, Benjamin! Their personal-religious-convictions are irrelevant, in the grand-scheme-of-things. They would both sell your first born at the drop of a hat, if they thought it would garner them a presidential win! Scum-bags, the both of them, and the vampires they represent!

      • DaveH

        The only real choice we have:
        http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/

        That is if we don’t want to become serfs to the psychopathic Leaders.

  • Norm

    Who is Willard RomneY???
    ABORTION
    Flip
    “I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country. I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years, that we should sustain and support it. I sustain and support that law and the right of a woman to make that choice.” — Debate with Sen. Edward Kennedy, 1994
    “I will preserve and protect a woman’s right to choose and am devoted and dedicated to honoring my word in that regard.” — Massachusetts Gubernatorial Debate, 2002
    Flop
    “Look, I was pro-choice. I am pro-life. You can go back to YouTube and look at what I said in 1994. I never said I was pro-choice, but my position was effectively pro-choice. I changed my position.” — Iowa Straw poll debate, 2007
    “What I would like to see happen would be for the Supreme Court to say, look, we’re going to overturn Roe v. Wade and return to the states the authority to decide whether they want to have abortion or not, state by state. That’s the way it was before Roe v. Wade. So I am firmly pro-life.” — Town hall meeting, Hopkinton, NH, 2011
    HUNTING
    Flip
    “I purchased a gun when I was a young man. I’ve been a hunter pretty much all my life.” — On the campaign trail in Keene, N.H., 2007
    Flop
    “Any description of my being a hunter is an overstatement of capability.” — Comment to a reporter from the Austin American-Statesman, 2007
    RONALD REAGAN
    Flip
    “I was an independent during the time of Reagan-Bush. I’m not trying to return to Reagan-Bush.” — Debate with Sen. Edward Kennedy, 1994

    Flop
    “When I was running for office for the first time in 1994, I was trying to define who I was…. I’ve said since, and continue to reiterate, that one of my heroes is Ronald Reagan.” — Q&A with Human Events, 2006
    DON’T ASK, DON’T TELL
    Flip
    Romney once said he was in favor of “gays and lesbians being able to serve openly and honestly” in the military. — Letter to Log Cabin Republicans, 1994
    Flop
    “[Don't Ask Don't Tell has] been the policy now in the military for, what, 10, 15 years – and it seems to have worked. This is not the time to put in major change, a social experiment, in the middle of a war going on.” — Presidential primary debate, 2007
    VIETNAM
    Flip
    “I was not planning on signing up for the military. It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam.” — Quoted by the Boston Herald, 1994
    Flop
    “I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam.” — Quoted by the
    GUN CONTROL
    Flip
    “We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts. I support them. I won’t chip away at them.” — Gubernatorial debate, 2002
    “Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts.” — Signing ceremony for bill banning assault weapons, 2004
    Flop
    “I don’t support any gun control legislation, the effort for a new assault weapons ban, with a ban on semi-automatic weapons, is something I would oppose.” — Interview with conservative bloggers, 2008
    HEALTH CARE REFORM
    Flip
    “I like mandates. Mandates work.” — Presidential primary debate, 2008
    “I’m proud of what we’ve done. If Massachusetts succeeds in implementing [Romneycare], then that will be a model for the nation.” — Speech in Baltimore, 2007
    Flop
    “At the time I crafted the plan in the last campaign I was asked is [Romneycare] something that you would have the whole nation do, and I said no. This is something that was crafted for Massachusetts. It would be wrong to adopt this as a nation.” — Presidential primary debate, 2011
    Bret Baier: “Governor, you did say on camera and in other places, at times you thought [Romneycare] would be a model for the nation.”
    Mitt Romney: “You’re wrong, Bret.” — Fox News interview, 2011
    CLIMATE CHANGE
    Flip
    “I believe the world’s getting warmer. I can’t prove that, but I believe based on what I read that the world is getting warmer. And number two, I believe that humans contribute to that. … And so I think it’s important for us to reduce our emissions of pollutants and greenhouse gases that may well be significant contributors to the climate change and the global warming that you’re seeing.” — Town hall meeting, Manchester, NH, June 2011
    Flop
    “My view is that we don’t know what’s causing climate change on this planet. And the idea of spending trillions and trillions of dollars to try to reduce CO2 emissions is not the right course for us.” — Q&A session, Pittsburg, PA, October 2011
    BUSH TAX CUTS
    Flip
    “[R]omney spoke at the 10th annual legislative conference organized by U.S. Rep. Martin T. Meehan (D-Lowell) and met with the Massachusetts delegation. … Congressional sources said that a point of contention arose when Romney refused to take a position on Bush’s massive, 10-year tax cut plan.” — Boston Herald, 2003
    Flop
    “McCain opposed President Bush’s tax cuts, Romney noted. ‘I supported them,’ the former governor said.” — Quoted in The State (SC), 2007
    TAX PLEDGES
    Flip
    “I’m not intending to, at this stage, sign a document which would prevent me from being able to look specifically at the revenue needs of the commonwealth. ” — Quoted in Union-News, Springfield, MA, 2002

    “Signing the pledge now sends a very clear message to those in Washington who have voted against tax relief and for tax hikes that such actions will never grow our regional and national economies.” — Romney spokesman quoted in the Boston Globe, 2007
    FLIP-FLOPPING
    Flip
    “I’m a strong believer in stating your position and not wavering.” — Comments to NARAL Pro Choice Massachusetts, 2002
    Flop
    “I changed my position.” — Iowa straw poll debate, 2007

    • Karolyn

      Don’t they all do it, Norm?

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        No Karolyn some have a soul and mind and know they aren’t little gods.

      • Karolyn

        Benjamin – Name one!

      • DaveH

        Gotta side with Karolyn on this one.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jayson

        Me to; good question, Karolyn!

    • Alex

      He is a businessman, alright.

      He smiles a lot, says what he thinks this person wants to hear, and what that person wants to hear. If they are two different things, hey—no big whoop…

      It is what George Carlin called “Servicing the Account”…

      He smiles and says to his anti-abortion audience, “No, I was not at Bain when we made millions disposing of aborted fetuses”. He was there, of course. But in his world, more
      than in any other I have seen, accountability means nothing. Just smile. And lie.

      He criticized President Obama for ending the Iraq War on schedule, calling the return of
      our troops to their families and their homes “tragic”. Tragic—that was Mitt’s word for our
      president ending a fraudulent war on the day the frauds he started it predicted. He is
      praying that he will not need to see the “tragedy” of Obama ending the OTHER war put
      on our credit card by Cheneybush. He wants the presidency, in part, to PROLONG the LONGEST war in our nation’s history—he says so himself—because he knows that there is a LOT of money to be made pushing OTHER people’s children into war. BIG money.

      • eddie47d

        That’s the thing. They said Obama promised to end the war in Iraq and criticized him when he didn’t . Now the war is ended for the most part and they (Romney) now criticize him for doing so. Its all bizarre thinking to say the least.

      • GALT

        But wait………if Romney stayed……..without the status of forces agreement which would have subjected everyone to Iraqi “jurisdiction”…..he could have used any attempt by
        the Iraqi government to actually do that…….as an excuse to overthrow the “government”
        which is what shrub/Cheney wanted to do all along…….and renegotiate those oil deals….which didn’t work out the way they were supposed to………..

      • sfcretdennis

        Alex says: Got new for you Obama is worse. At least with Romney we wont be losing freedoms, Obama has taken some and is trying to take more. Obama has declared war and religion, our 2nt Amendment rights, Military Veterans, just go to MOAA, Military Officers of America Association and you will see what is going on with our veterans and our benefits. Obama wants to steel from the rich and give to the poor so the poor can be lazy and do nothing to get themselves off welfare and food stamps. Welfare and food stamps were to be a stop gap and not a permanent payment to the needy, the needy needs to try and get off of welfare and food stamps but they don’t and wont so long as Obama is will go steel from the rich and give to the poor and no I am not rich never have, been poor all my life, 55 yrs, when we were kids my mom and dad received welfare for a sort time as my dad worked hard to get us off and he did very few welfare and food stamps receivers try to get off.

      • GALT

        hhhhhhmmmmmm I guess the fact that if you are “currently unemployed”……..it means
        you “used to be employed”………hasn’t really sunk in yet, sfcretdennis ???????

        • sfcretdennis

          No your are wrong, I don’t trust Obama, he has had 4 years and things are getting worse, gas has doubled, he has tried to raise my military tri-care fees by double and and tri-care premiums up by $600 and cut from Veteran programs. Obama wants my gun’s, Obama has declared war on religion and our freedoms of warship. Want’s to brain wash our children, in schools, that same sex is not wrong when the bible says it is and abortion is ok when it is murder of helpless baby, and before you say any thing have you ever looked at an ultrasound of a pregnant women? you will see a baby in side there and I can go on and on but you will not believe them or don’t care about the harm and damage Obama has done to this country and will do if he gets 4 more years. People on welfare should be made to work on getting off and not live on it for generation after generation and when drawing welfare or food stamps you should be doing something in the communality to earn it. We should not rob from the rich so welfare people can be lazy and do nothing for what they get.
          I know Romney has things I don’t like and I am not afraid to say so, yet Obama supports refuse to believe Obama does anything wrong and Obama and his supports blames everyone except themselves when things go wrong and Obama can’t get things done, but then Obama signs and E.O. And gets what he wants after 4 years it’s time to stop blaming others for Obama’s failures

      • Viet Nam Vet 67-68

        Alex the Liberal Moron: Abomination promised ” I will reduce our National Debt to $5 Trillion in my firt term !! Sixteen $16 Trillion dollars later !!!! I will reduce Unemployment to 5.4% with $816 Billion dollars in Quantum Stupidity 1, for a Record 44 Straight Monthe we are at 16% real Unemployment if you report All Americans unemployed or under employed. I will with Quantum Easement Stupidity 2 get our economy and Unemployment under control and Pay off all my campaign donors who have green energy companies that 97% have gone under since giving $90 Billion Dollars to. I will Fix our National Electrical Grid that is falling apart with part of the Extra $6 Trillion dollars that I have Blown, Didn’t Happen. I will Fix our falling down dilapidated Bridges with part of the $6 Trillion dollars that I have waisted paying off my Muslim Brother all over the world !! I will Repair our old Highways and build new Highways with part of the $6 Trillion I have squandered, didn’t happen Here is what happened he raised our National Debt by $6 Trillion Dollars and got our first Downgrade on our Tripple A Credit rating Ever, so we are now paying even more for Borrowed money and he is printing another $40 Billion a month in addition to what we were already printing a year for Quantum Easement Stupidity 3 buying more BAD DEBT REAL ESTATE LOANS that got us in Trouble in 2008 and further devalueing our Dollar even more. He states he wants to do all these wonderful things in his second term and all I wonder is when he has a Major Majority in Congress with the ability to pass any legislation and a BUDGET that he did nothing but pass the Most Important bill in our History without one single DemoRAT READING IT !!!! And when asked if there was a Death Panel he said WHAT, NO guess what it there 15 unelected non medical people making a decision on your medical care !! Also when asked if there were any TAXES in this Bill he said NO, Guess what there were 30 different Taxes in this bill 9 already in effect and 21 BRAND NEW TAXES on Small Busineess and Corporations and if you don’t think you aren’t going to be taxed more for higher costs of goods and services you are truely dumber than you look. Go to Netflix and watch the Documentary “DREAMS FROM MY REAL FATHER” AND GET A LOOK AT WHAT ABOMINATION IS ALL ABOUT !!!!! Viet Nam Vet 67-68

      • DaveH

        Alex says — “He criticized President Obama for ending the Iraq War on schedule”.
        He ended the war on schedule?
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VlXfs1K04g

      • DaveH

        What is wrong with you Liberal Progressives that makes it so hard for you to tell the truth, Alex?
        “Have our troops out by March 31st of next year (2009)”.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WYTKj8pU5M

      • sam1966

        Well Alex and Galt, at least Romney won’t be keeping people from voting.

        http://www.godfatherpolitics.com/7642/obamas-un-friends-will-monitoring-polls-to-guard-against-conservative-groups/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

    • ChuckS

      I’d consider these flips, not flip flops. What you call flip I call original position. If he changes his mind after several years, it’s somewhat understandable. Reversing twice would be much more suspicious. It does concern me, however. We need to keep his feet to the fire and be ready to jump on him with both feet if he goes back to the dark side. Which we should have done more with Bush.

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        ChuckS, you need to come out of the dark ages and stop blaming Bush for all the faults of Obozo and his islamic idea’s, get a life, a mind, a brain and stop sitting on the brain part.

      • ChuckS

        Ben, Obama is definitely worse than Bush. But bush did a number of liberal things that a lot of republicans didn’t criticize him enough for. Like his prescription drug package, too much support of green energy, and increasing the budget $1 trillion. He dropped school choice early in his presidency and let Ted Kennedy write the education bill. Supporting amnesty and not finishing the border fence.

      • ChuckS

        Just about any bad thing Bush did, Obama did worse.

      • Deerinwater

        Well, ~ that is an opinion that you have the right to openly claim. I would defend Santa Clause right to violate US air space with the same vigor.

        Geo . W. Bush and his administration will go down in history as the worst conservative leadership offer to the free world, history has ever witnessed, regardless with the efforts to rewrite history. In his 8 years tenure, government grew 900,000 employees.

        Rather then tracking down a killing a small group of goat abusers, ~ we as a nation lead by Geo. W. Bush invaded two nations and laid to waste, the good and bad alike, creating only more enemies in the process.

  • GALT

    Talk about reincarnation and past lives……….you all get to be your ole selves for a bit…..

    No cookie’s today…..

    • Karolyn

      Whew! But I guess we will have to face the change sooner or later.

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        Change Karolyn? Lets see marxism, communism, naziism and a dictator-in-chief, sell your body, has more value then the entire obozo clan.

      • GALT

        yup……he is totally short circuited. gigo

      • sam1966

        Just like a member of the 5th column to level a personal attack at someone Galt. BTW, why don’t you read this and learn something?

        http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/ready-to-come-clean-on-iran-mr-president/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

      • GALT

        gee thanks Sam……be nice if you knew what a personal attack was……but since you seem to think you know something regarding Mr Fox……..he has multiple posts here……that need translating………so why don’t you help us out?

        Such understanding should not be kept secret…….and it would be kinda fun to see
        what benjamin’s reaction to YOU will be………

      • http://naver samurai

        Saying someone has short curcuited is an attack on someone’s intelligence, is it not Galt? In fact, I have a question for you, OK? Since Romney believes in our Christian founding and Obama bin Laden does not, here is my question. On the SCOTUS Building there is a statue of Moses holding the 10 Commandments. What is the meaning of that statue? I expect an intelligent answer also. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

      • sam1966

        Where is your answer Galt as I’m still waiting for one. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

    • GALT

      Just curious but anyone watch the PBS Frontline special ” the choice”………there is a debate sequence between Romney and Kennedy……….where ole willard gets carved up and served for dinner…….and the thing is……the same stuff applies today….

      Another fun fact……..his ability to get things done in Mass as governor…….he was so good at it, he used his veto power 800 times, and got overridden almost 800 times……and he had to beg Kennedy for help with “Romney Care”…………and to make it work $$$$$$$
      a “mandate was required”…….an idea that originated with the Heritage Foundation, a “conservative” organization.

      So when Obama is doing his health care thing…..he used the team that Romney put
      together………..

      Like I said…….fun facts……totally meaningless…….who cares…….

    • DaveH

      Who said anything about “reincarnation”?
      I think it’s time for your meds, Galt.

      • GALT

        Actually, anyone capable of comprehending context, regarding the subject of the post,
        would have no problem figuring it out…….DavidH.

        Karolyn can help you……..but please ask nicely…….

        or maybe just being aware of the available evidence…..like this……

        Hi Karolyn,

        Yes. Unfortunately, Livefyre is down as a result of issues with Amazon hosting. We’ve disabled the service until further notice to allow everyone to continue commenting. We realize recent comments made using Livefyre have disappeared and we are working to restore those.

        Thank you for your patience,

        Spencer

        keep posting DAVE…….

      • GALT

        oh and just in case you missed it……….the page flipped……so the sequence is bottom up……….NOW…….

  • Karolyn

    Yes, I know this is off topic; however, this is a very interesting site about inequality in the US. It is amazing the disparity that exists here, especially in comparison with the rest of the world!
    http://toomuchonline.org/weeklies2012/oct222012.html

    • Jimmy the Greek

      That was interesting reading .

    • GALT

      Gee if I had to guess…….what are the chances it would ever be “on topic” here?

      But you could try this…….quote Bob ” We are both rich guys.”

      and then say:

      Well, Bob speaking of “rich guys”…….and you are now “magically on topic”……

    • eddie47d

      That would be a good article for Dave H to pick apart Karolyn. He is always in denial about greedy CEOs and Corporations.It can be in black and white or black and blue and he won’t admit anything.

    • TML

      Granted, I certainly do not agree with high salaries paid for by taxpayers in any capacity; I am entirely against any kind of general wealth redistribution. The guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it, is a core principle of the United States founding and part of what made this country so great. Anyone from the ‘noble’ to the ‘peasant’ had equal opportunity to achieve whatever they dreamed. For that reason, you will never hear me suggest playing Robin Hood in any capacity whatsoever.

      The problem is not with ‘the rich’. The problem is the federal reserve. As a great man once said. “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.” – Thomas Jefferson

      You want to talk about something that won’t be discussed in ANY of the debates between Romney and Obama, it’s the private central bank, the Federal Reserve. THIS is the problem, as there should be a separation of corporation and state, the same as there is a separation of church and state… and giving a private bank the ability to control the issuance of our currency removes all barriers. In conjecture, I would even say these ideas of CEO’s or doctors being paid so much with taxpayer money would be impossible without the anomaly of fiat currency in the economy.

      • GALT

        Missed that whole “bail out” thing, huh?

      • TML

        Could you be more specific?
        Haven’t forgotten any ‘bailouts’. All of which I completely disapprove of on that same principle.

      • GALT

        Well TML you said……..”The problem is not with ‘the rich’. ”

        So who caused the “problem”? Why are the rich still rich, instead of in jail?

        and if sound money is the “solution”, why did 1929 happen……the U.S. was on the gold standard and controlled 75+% of the world’s gold supply, and other than “reserve requirements” the only additional leverage was the “margins” extended by wall st brokers?

      • TML

        GALT says, “So who caused the “problem”? Why are the rich still rich, instead of in jail?”

        In the context of bail outs, the ‘rich’ shouldn’t be in jail. They should reap the fruit of their labor and be out of business. Yet, asking why the rich are still rich, is because of bailouts. (i.e. taxpayers – or dare I say legalized counterfeiting – bailed them out)

        GALT says, “and if sound money is the “solution”, why did 1929 happen……”

        Interestingly, the Federal Reserve was established just 16 years prior.

        Think about it.

      • DaveH

        So if a thief steals your money and then gives it to his girlfriend, his girlfriend is the problem?

      • DaveH

        Have you heard of Fractional Banking, Galt? It doesn’t matter if they have all the gold in the world if they are issuing 10 times as many notes which give claim to it.

      • DaveH

        For those who want to know more than Galt knows, Not what he thinks he knows:
        http://mises.org/books/whathasgovernmentdone.pdf

      • GALT

        What part of being on the Gold Standard and the other facts did you miss?

        The Federal Reserve was a “central bank” operating on the gold standard……

        You do know what leverage is? You do know what happens when there is no leverage?

      • DaveH

        Then the Banking Act of 1933 (Glass Steagall) was passed, part of which was to allow the Federal Reserve to use US Government securities as well as Gold for reserve collateral.
        For the whole scoop, see here:
        http://mises.org/Books/historyofmoney.pdf

      • TML

        GALT says, “The Federal Reserve was a “central bank” operating on the gold standard……”

        The Federal Reserve is a PRIVATE central bank. Must I repeat the quote out of mere confusion?

        I respect your willingness to engage but you have to be more articulate, Galt.

      • GALT

        The Lords of Finance

        Winner of the 2010 Pulitzer Prize

        With penetrating insights for today, this vital history of the world economic collapse of the late 1920s offers unforgettable portraits of the four men whose personal and professional actions as heads of their respective central banks changed the course of the twentieth century

        It is commonly believed that the Great Depression that began in 1929 resulted from a confluence of events beyond any one person?s or government?s control. In fact, as Liaquat Ahamed reveals, it was the decisions taken by a small number of central bankers that were the primary cause of the economic meltdown, the effects of which set the stage for World War II and reverberated for decades.

        In Lords of Finance, we meet the neurotic and enigmatic Montagu Norman of the Bank of England, the xenophobic and suspicious Émile Moreau of the Banque de France, the arrogant yet brilliant Hjalmar Schacht of the Reichsbank, and Benjamin Strong of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, whose façade of energy and drive masked a deeply wounded and overburdened man. After the First World War, these central bankers attempted to reconstruct the world of international finance. Despite their differences, they were united by a common fear?that the greatest threat to capitalism was inflation? and by a common vision that the solution was to turn back the clock and return the world to the gold standard.

        For a brief period in the mid-1920s they appeared to have succeeded. The world?s currencies were stabilized and capital began flowing freely across the globe. But beneath the veneer of boom-town prosperity, cracks started to appear in the financial system. The gold standard that all had believed would provide an umbrella of stability proved to be a straitjacket, and the world economy began that terrible downward spiral known as the Great Depression.

        As yet another period of economic turmoil makes headlines today, the Great Depression and the year 1929 remain the benchmark for true financial mayhem. Offering a new understanding of the global nature of financial crises, Lords of Finance is a potent reminder of the enormous impact that the decisions of central bankers can have, of their fallibility, and of the terrible human consequences that can result when they are wrong.

      • TML

        “What part of being on the Gold Standard and the other facts did you miss?”

        Being on the “gold” standard isn’t necessarily the issue. At the time the Federal Reserve was established it had the ability to proceed with what is called “fractional reserve banking”. Do some research on that if you will.

      • GALT

        Plot summary

        The book discusses the personal histories of the four heads of the Central Banks of the United States, Great Britain, France, and Germany and their efforts to steer the world economy from the period during the First World War until the Great Depression. The book also discusses at length the career of the British economist John Maynard Keynes who criticized many of the policies of the heads of the Central Banks during this time.
        [edit]Themes

        One of the main themes of the book is the role played by the central bankers’ insistence to adhere to the gold standard “even in the face of total catastrophe.”[1] As Joe Nocera, a book reviewer at the New York Times, stated, “the central bankers were prisoners of the economic orthodoxy of their time: the powerful belief that sound monetary policy had to revolve around the gold standard…Again and again, this straitjacket caused the central bankers — especially Norman, gold’s most fervent advocate — to make moves, like raising interest rates, that would allow their countries to hold on to their dwindling gold supplies, even though the larger economy desperately needed help in the form of lower interest rates.”[2]
        Another theme that runs through the book is how difficult it was to forecast the financial future and how the events would influence world events. “Mr. Ahamed’s opinions are made very clear (the Paris Peace Conference’s plan for Germany to pay war reparations is presented as a great blunder), but his overriding idea is that blame cannot be easily assigned: not even the most sophisticated economists of the era could accurately predict disaster, let alone guard against it. The effects of a public herd mentality at the time of the 1929 stock market crash are depicted, all too recognizably, as unstoppable.”[3]

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_of_Finance

      • GALT

        What do you think ‘reserve requirements” was referring too?

        Of course now all you have to do is read……and by the way Benjamin Strong was the
        head of the New York Fed……..the Fed system was not centralized in 1929……each branch operated independently…….

        I know the FACTS don’t matter…..but we are done here.

      • TML

        GALT says, “The Lords of Finance”

        Nothing in that article conflicts with what I’m saying. Frankly, I’m having a hard time trying to figure out exactly what you’re arguing for. I’m saying the ‘rich’ rely on the federal reserve, and so I argue against it. What exactly is your angle Galt?

        Keep in mind… only two, yes 2, Presidents in American history opposed a central bank for the exact reasons you present – Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson

      • GALT

        Okay, let me help…….

        “The gold standard that all had believed would provide an umbrella of stability proved to be a straitjacket, and the world economy began that terrible downward spiral known as the Great Depression.”

        help any?

      • TML

        “I know the FACTS don’t matter…..but we are done here.”

        Nothing matters more, but so be it.

      • DaveH

        Keynes was a court economist who built the scaffolding to excuse unsound practices of Big Governments and their Central Bankers who didn’t want to be constrained by Gold Money.
        The bottom line is that inflation is a great tool for Government Leaders and Bankers to steal from the citizens in ways most don’t understand. But the Bankers couldn’t inflate the money supply without the complicity of Government Leaders (who sometimes were the bankers, but always in cahoots). No sane knowledgeable citizen would use fiat paper money if he could instead use Gold Money, but thanks to Government legal tender laws they have no choice.
        Those who want to learn what it’s all about should first read “What Has Government Done to Our Money”, and then “The History of Money and Banking in the United States” — both of which I have linked to earlier.
        A “Gold Standard” which allows Bankers to issue 10 times as many claims to that Gold (Notes) as they have Gold to back them up is really just a Fraudulent Gold Standard.

      • GALT

        I haven’t presented any reasons………just the facts………

        I believe “sound money” was your solution……yes or no?

        If yes…….then you need to answer the leverage questions?

        No fractional reserve requirements means no leverage? Then what?

      • TML

        “The gold standard that all had believed would provide an umbrella of stability proved to be a straitjacket, and the world economy began that terrible downward spiral known as the Great Depression.”

        Post hoc ergo prompter hoc
        A standard provide stability

      • bychoosing

        “Some people think that the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lenders.”

        – The Honorable Louis McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency
        Committee in the 1930s

        If the Fed were actually a federal agency, the government could issue U.S. legal tender directly, avoiding an unnecessary interest-bearing debt to private middlemen who create the money out of thin air themselves. Among other benefits to the taxpayers. A truly “federal” Federal Reserve could lend the full faith and credit of the United States to state and local governments interest-free, cutting the cost of infrastructure in half, restoring the thriving local economies of earlier decades.

        http://www.globalresearch.ca/who-owns-the-federal-reserve/10489

      • GALT

        So you don’t want any banks?

        Or banks are okay but they can only lend out actual deposits?

        And how do you prevent leverage from being created? By anyone…….

      • GALT

        TML you don’t seem to be answering any questions? Why is that?

      • http://google gary gerke

        The Federal Reserve has to go! JFK was going to shut it down along with dismantling the CIA, they killed him four months later!!!!!!!

      • DaveH

        Galt says — ““The gold standard that all had believed would provide an umbrella of stability proved to be a straitjacket, and the world economy began that terrible downward spiral known as the Great Depression.”.
        That is equivocation at it’s finest. Is Galt just unaware, or is he purposely trying to mislead people? The Great Depression was caused by the malinvestment which resulted from the Federal Reserve increasing the money supply far beyond the amount of Gold that backed it up.
        This initially caused the Boom due to mixed signals received by entrepreneurs who mistakenly believed there were sound markets for their unwise investments. Then when the Federal Reserve tightened the money supply, those unwise investments could no longer be supported and the crash ensued. This is the case for almost all of our Market Crashes — The Fed inflates and then later when the inevitable inflation begins they panic and put the breaks on and we have a crash.
        In the 100 year period before the Federal Reserve, the value of a US dollar actually increased (almost double). Then, in the 100 years after the creation of the Federal Reserve, the value of the US dollar has been steadily decreasing. It is now worth 1/23rd of what it was worth in 1913 when the Federal Reserve was created. Mom and Pop, those on fixed incomes, and others with large cash savings, paid the price for the Government’s largess.

      • GALT

        More FACTS…….1929 all money was redeemable in gold….if not actually gold or silver, based on the coinage act of 1900…….you could buy a lot for a dime….

        Federal Reserve Notes were still redeemable in “lawful money” in 1955…….

      • DaveH

        Galt says — “So you don’t want any banks?”.
        In Free Markets there would be banks, but ideally they would back their notes with 100% Gold.
        I would have no problem with banks engaging in Fractional Reserves (lending out far more notes than they have Gold for), but only with full disclosure to their note holders. If they got reckless and there was an ensuing run on their Gold, they would go bankrupt or defunct. No protection from the Government.
        Although, I doubt seriously that I would entrust my Gold money to such a bank.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jayson

        On May 23, 1933, Congressman, Louis T. McFadden, brought formal charges against the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve Bank system, The Controller of the Currency and the Secretary of United States Treasury for numerous criminal acts, including but not limited to, CONSPIRACY, FRAUD, UNLAWFUL CONVERSION, AND TREASON. The petition for Articles of Impeachment was thereafter referred to the Judiciary Committee and has YET TO BE ACTED ON.

        “These twelve private credit monopolies were deceitfully and disloyally foisted upon this Country by the bankers who came here from Europe and repaid us our hospitality by undermining our American institutions. Those bankers took money out of this Country to finance Japan in a war against Russia. They created a reign of terror in Russia with our money in order to help that war along. They instigated the separate peace between Germany and Russia, and thus drove a wedge between the allies in World War. They financed Trotsky’s passage from New York to Russia so that he might assist in the destruction of the Russian Empire. They fomented and instigated the Russian Revolution, and placed a large fund of American dollars at Trotsky’s disposal in one of their branch banks in Sweden so that through him Russian homes might be thoroughly broken up and Russian children flung far and wide from their natural protectors. They have since begun
        breaking up of American homes and the dispersal of American children. Mr. Chairman, there should be no partisanship in matters concerning banking and currency affairs in this Country, and I do not speak with any.”

        http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Federal_Reserve_McFadden.htm

      • DaveH

        Galt says — “1929 all money was redeemable in gold”.
        Not true. The paper notes were purportedly redeemable in Gold, but the reality was that the Banks issued far more notes than they had Gold to back them up. Thus the disastrous runs on the banks.

      • TML

        Galt says, “So you don’t want any banks?
        Or banks are okay but they can only lend out actual deposits?”

        In other words, only give you the money you have earned? Uh, yes.

        Galt says, “And how do you prevent leverage from being created? By anyone…….”

        Define; “leverage”.

        GALT says, “TML you don’t seem to be answering any questions? Why is that?”

        Your questions are all complex from lack of articulation.

        i.e. a question that has a presupposition that is complex. The presupposition is a proposition that is presumed to be acceptable to the respondent when the question is asked. The respondent becomes committed to this proposition when he gives any direct answer. The presupposition is called “complex” because it is a conjunctive proposition, a disjunctive proposition, or a conditional proposition. It could also be another type of proposition that contains some logical connective in a way that makes it have several parts that are component propositions.

        Some might call it rhetoric.

      • GALT

        No Dave, GALT didn’t say anything……..the author of the book did…..adult non fiction
        of your local library……or amazon on sale……..cheap

        You have another chance to be rich and famous……..and you are falling way behind, because you actually have to read the books in order to expose the lies?

        Unless you have von mises link that does this specifically for THIS BOOK or any of the OTHER BOOKS…..

        Why is it that I don’t think you can find such a link?

        BTW this book has sources and materials used…as any legitimate history book would…
        you know….footnotes and things?

        hey, maybe if you contact your link source directly, they will help you…..oh wait, the austrian school……that’s about sound money, huh?

      • DaveH

        Galt says — “TML you don’t seem to be answering any questions? Why is that?”.
        Why do you think he should answer your questions? Do you think TML is your puppet?

        And your questions were non-sequiturs anyway, having nothing to do with the debate.

      • GALT

        being able to lend only money deposited means no “fractional reserve” lending or
        “no leverage”……………people put money in bank…..bank lends money…….

        money all gone……no more lending……..

        depositor want money back…….money not there…..

        Now what…….?

      • DaveH

        Galt,
        You are a legend in your own mind. Due to space limitations, it is a very small legend.

      • GALT

        Question too hard Dave? So the acceptable amount of leverage is?
        Who determines whether the bank is telling the truth?
        As a depositor how often would you need to know what the banks exposure was?

        or are these non sequitur questions?

      • DaveH

        No, Galt, being a Bank does not mean that it has to operate on a Fractional Reserve basis.
        There could be Banks which operated solely as warehouses for our Gold Money. They would issue notes for the Gold which notes could be freely traded to others who trust the issuing Bank. These notes would be more convenient for most people as opposed to carrying around their Gold Coins. Of course the Banks would have to charge a hefty fee for their storage services.
        Then there might be Banks who offer Time Deposits for your Gold, in which case, knowing when your Deposit might be redeemed, they could lend notes out to others whose loans would be paid back over time. Those banks could actually pay for your deposits, and get their profits from the Borrowers.
        Then there might be Banks who lend more notes out than they have Gold to back them up with the Fractional Reserve ratio being large enough to hopefully forgo panicked runs. Again, as in my earlier comment, that would be with full knowledge of the depositors and note-holders. If they got greedy and issued too many notes, and the depositors ran the Bank, the Bank would go bankrupt or go defunct. They would get no taxpayer bailouts for their mistakes.
        The possibilities are nearly endless, but in all cases the operators of the Banks, as in any Business, would get no Involuntary help from uninvolved Taxpayers when they screwed up.

      • DaveH

        Galt,
        I’m done with your inane questions for today. If you really want to know and understand the possibilities, then read the books I linked to. You won’t and I will be better off that way, because I really don’t want an obnoxious person such as yourself on my side.

      • GALT

        No need Dave……your NOT ANSWERING is all that is required!!!! That and you just being you……….stay away……it’s less embarrassing for you……

        BTW you do realize why we have a modern banking system?

        Sounds as though you might like Switzerland……..at least the banks.

        But you take care now……..

      • TML

        GALT says, “being able to lend only money deposited means no “fractional reserve” lending or
        “no leverage”……………”

        Ah, thus you are a proponent of fractional reserve banking and, in support of the ‘rich’ however inadvertently. Credit is a lie my friend. It’s only a way of spending money you do not yet earned. Slaves are made is such way.

        GALT says, “money all gone……no more lending……..
        depositor want money back…….money not there…..
        Now what…….?”

        Don’t put your money in a bank.

      • TML

        *have not yet earned.

        How bout an edit command with the format PL? Ugh, lol

      • GALT

        Well TML that would make for one hell of a vibrant economy………..not to mention you
        would be spending all your time guarding your money……..or you wouldn’t have very much………worse if you lived in Sweden way back…..they had these huge copper coins……

      • GALT

        Oh and TML…….these questions are for you…….they indicate nothing regarding what I am for……….or not for…….

        and all you are doing is repeating history……..returning to those not so thrilling days of yesteryear……once you establish an economy……you have to deal with problems…
        regardless of what you use to keep score………

        if everyone is an independent actor……things tend not to happen very fast…….

      • DaveH

        More double-speak from the useless Socialist who hasn’t yet caught on that Socialism is a failure.

      • GALT

        Let’s see Dave……..what GALT has actually said is that ECONOMICS is a FAILURE!!!!!

        That means that any form of it……..to date……is a failure…….mercantilsm, capitalism,
        socialism, communism………and any other “system” I might have missed…….

        Why? ( asked and answered….see book list, read books, post evidence refuting books and become rich and famous…….. ) but just in cased you missed it…..

        Fundamentally, the problem is Economics itself……….a fraudulent con game, and equal to the one which pretends that the constitution still matters………..yet, for some reason, these cons are working very well………despite the fact that they are quite visible….people never seem to be able to grasp the fundamental issue’s or ask the right questions?

        Enter Economics Unmasked:The Amazon Book Description

        The economic system under which we live not only forces the great majority of humankind to live their lives in indignity and poverty; it also threatens all forms of life – indeed life itself. Economics Unmasked presents a cogent critique of the dominant economic system in order to help transform our society into one in which all forms of life will be protected. The first part of this book is devoted to showing that the theoretical constructions that have been selected, work mainly to bring about injustice. The second part is concerned with what should be the foundations of a new economics where justice, human dignity, compassion and reverence for life must be the guiding values.

        “As is clear from the title, the book argues that modern neoclassical economics is a mask for power and greed, a construct designed to justify the status quo. Its claim to serve the common good is specious, and its claim to scientific status is fraudulent. The latter is sought mainly by excessive mathematical formalism to the neglect of concrete facts and real values. The mathematical formalism is in imitation of nineteenth century physics (economics viewed as the mechanics of utility and self-interest), but without any empirical basis remotely comparable to physics. Pareto is identified a villain here, and to a lesser extent Jevons.

        The hallmark of a real science is a basic consensus about fundamentals. There is no real consensus in economics, so how can it claim to be a mature science? Easy, by forcing a false “consensus” through the simple expedient of declaring heterodox views to be “not really economics,” eliminating history of economic thought from the curriculum, instigating a pseudo-Nobel Prize in Economics, and attaining a monopoly on faculty positions in economics departments at elite universities.” Herman Daly

        “They identify what they consider to be the foundations of a new economics, which are articulations of the very core of our work here at nef:
        The economy should serve the people, not the people the economy;
        Development is about people, not objects;
        Growth is not the same as development, and development does not necessarily require growth;
        No economy is possible in the absence of eco-system services;
        The economy is a sub-system of a larger and finite system, the biosphere, hence permanent growth is impossible.” Nic Marks

        Now this subject is a bit more complicated regarding the simple question that explains what happened to the constitution ( and which people ignore and have yet to ask any of these so called “patriot” office holders and aspirants ) but really, is there anyone out there that can say that the “economy” is serving them?

        From what I can see on this site, the people who managed to escape being victims are blaming those who were the victims, mostly because they are concerned about joining them, and for some reason fail to see that the present victims, before they became victims, were just like them……….

        “To conquer, first DIVIDE!” ( and then HANG, separately.)

        P.S. when are you ever going to learn, DavidH……..

      • TML

        GALT says, “and all you are doing is repeating history……..returning to those not so thrilling days of yesteryear……once you establish an economy……you have to deal with problems…
        regardless of what you use to keep score………”

        Repeating history seems to be exactly what you promote if you are arguing for the Federal Reserve. Fractional reserve banking has been around for centuries, and has been tried many times, on many continents. But every time it has been used, it has led ultimately to economic disaster. Many (such as yourself) consider the impossibility of running perpetual deficits under the gold standard (I believe you called it a “straightjacket”) as proof of its unsuitability to the modern economy. As I see it, this is precisely why the gold standard is so desirable and so badly needed today. The gold standard, along with the inability to print money without something backing it, forces the government to responsibly confront irresponsible fiscal policy.

        What I find interesting about your objections within this exchange is that ultimately your position seems based on a mere dismissal of all ‘economic’ systems in general, while offering no alternative argument other than support for the age old illogical mistake of fractional reserve banking. Strange

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      Karolyn your a misinformed idiot, the rest of the world hates us because we have improved, you and your NOW are really dumb and blind, Sharia will make you a piece of cattle, sheep who have more value then you, your as blind as a hooker without a John who has to pay your pimp, so dumb I’m sure I couldn’t live with such a stupid idiot.

      • Karolyn

        What on earth are you talking about? NOW? What does that have to do with anything. How do you kno the rest of the world hates us? Did you actually read what my link directed to?

      • Karolyn

        Ben – Do you have a problem with women? It certainly doesn’t sound like you’d be anybody’s joy to live with.

      • GALT

        He seems to have problems regarding input and output……

      • Mike in MI

        Ben Fox -
        Quite astute response to the syrupy KAROlynska. All fructed and no -tose.
        Such blasphemously oblivious gendarms of ignorant stupidity like living under the freedoms and commonplace lifestyles they presently inhabit. They never think about the consequences which would ensue when Obama has completely dismantled our wonderful Constitution by simply failing to discharge its provisions while allowing them to think they still live under its protections. In other words they think that the status qou represents what we have always associated with good old American life and living.
        What they never think about is that no government can continue to operate if there are two sets of laws in force. It is impossible to conceive that a nation can be governed by two sets of laws simultaneously…e.g. our Constitution and sharia in parallel under one flag.
        If one is in force the other must give way entirely. If we are enticed to disassemble the Constitution by some obscene Executive Order it WILL be replaced by some other system of governance and order keeping device or else total chaos will erupt.
        If sharia is that which is adopted, as in many mid-east and African nations because its adherents are strong and ready to move and well financed life in this land will become untenable to the Karolynskas among us…and most everybody else – - – too late… caliphate.

      • GALT

        If Romney wasn’t so dangerous…….it might be fun to watch you get what you are wishing for……..but look on the bright side…….now you can continue to babble mindlessly for four more years………be interesting to see what the republicans will do to make sure he doesn’t get a third term……

      • DaveH

        Speaking of “mindless”, who said anything about Romney?

      • http://naver samurai

        First of all Karolyn, Sharia law, if it ever replaces our laws, does not protect women in the least. Women are nothing more than mere property by these laws. I assume that is what Ben was talking about, not you. Second, since this debate will cover various subjects, everything in on the table. Third, here is something about Obama bin Laden and the attacks in Lybia. Though Hitlery took responsibility, as she should have, but Obama bin Laden is ultimately responsible.

        http://www.freedomoutpost.com/2012/10/bigger-than-watergate-issa-questions-obama-in-benghazi-scandal/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

      • GALT

        More help for DaveH…………….scroll up to this………and then work your way down slowly,
        in fact work your way down VERY, VERY, VERY, SSSSSSLLLLLOOOOOWWWWLLLLYYY

        Karolyn says:
        October 22, 2012 at 3:15 pm
        Yes, I know this is off topic; however, this is a very interesting site about inequality in the US. It is amazing the disparity that exists here, especially in comparison with the rest of the world!
        http://toomuchonline.org/weeklies2012/oct222012.html

        Reply

        If you still can’t find it….or figure it out……..get back to me……

        You do know there is an election coming up?
        And whose running?

        Just checking……….you seem to be regressing,,,,,,,,,,,stroke?

  • Chief Boring

    I suppose you never changed your mind about anything? It has been said, I think first by Churchill, that if you’re not a liberal when young, you have no heart; if you’re not a conservative when grown, you have no brain…BTW, I saw Gary johnson on TV the other night, joking about growing marijuana in the Rose Garden. He acted as if he were high…God save us from such irresponsibility. Chief Boring

    • Jimmy the Greek

      I used to grow it in my backyard when i lived in houston !

    • Motov

      Pot smoking is actually safer than booze, People are not as prone to make complete fools of themselves like they would on alcohol. Think how many people will be released from jail If pot became legal. In my mind it is prohibition. The Government could be making more money legalizing it then tax it,…like they have on many other things.
      You are not going to stop people from smoking pot, People like to get high.
      Just like you won’t get people to stop drinking, people like to get drunk, or be sociable.
      And contrary to popular belief it is NOT a “gateway” drug to harsher chemicals.
      People are either prone to abuse or not, Those who do abuse should be seeking a 12 step program (which btw is probably the most effective way of treating drug abusers )

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    An excellent commentary that came from the heart Bob. People are to busy living the moment to digest what we were but something like this might get some more eyes open. God bless

  • Jimmy the Greek

    I went out to vote today , the first day of early voting here in Texas , what i have never seen before was lines as long as what was there today it took a little over one hour to get to vote , normal would have been around five minutes , people i spoke to were not happy with the way the country is going , I think Obongo is toast this time around .

    • GALT

      I don’t think Obama expects to win Texas or ever did……..

  • Joe Hammond

    Here is a question that I believe both candidates would twist away from answering:

    We recognize that if Israel were attacked by Iran we would come to the aid of Isareal and attack Iran. But if Israel attacks Iran and starts a war with them will you as president attack Iran and enter that war which would be allowing Israel to control war policy?

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      Obozo will sit on his hands and say “What you go to take a spoil”? That will destroy this nation that thinks it can’t be defeated, get ready idiot’s judgement on it’s way and you don’t have a clue.

  • 45caliber

    Bob Livingston:

    Just to let you know. If I have to go to Facebook or something else in order to leave a comment here, I won’t bother. I don’t like those things and won’t use them. And if I can’t leave a comment now and then, I won’t bother to come here any more either. Good luck to you on your endevors. I hope this isn’t farewell.

    God Bless.

    • GALT

      livefyre account is required……the rest is optional……except for the cookies

  • GALT

    Of course, the CONSTITUTION, consists of the following…….

    Article One, section 8

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

    Article 3, section 2

    The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;—to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States;—between a State and Citizens of another State;—between Citizens of different States;—between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

    Since there are no longer any states, simply federal districts with two letter abbreviations, and there are no common law and equity courts or jurisdictions……..everything else
    that is in the Constitution is meaningless……

    http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/freeman/freeman4.htm

  • justone

    Maybe we should write in Bob Livingston, for being so right on about the debate that SHOULD be taking place. I too am fed up with the BS and the choreography in the so-called debates. That they won’t even talk about the stolen freedoms and tyranny we are living under says so much more than any response to any so-called questions.

    • GALT

      You can always “unvolunteer” for the tyranny.

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        And many can be stupid, nazi’s and communist and enjoy the fall of the nation.

      • GALT

        Hey that might be brilliant if it made any sense?

      • DaveH

        Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle Black.

      • GALT

        Yeah POT, watch it…….Kettle Black is on the “do not call list “!

  • GALT

    Sounds fascinating……so

    So the acceptable amount of leverage is?
    Who determines whether the bank is telling the truth?
    As a depositor how often would you need to know what the banks exposure was?

    or are these non sequitur questions?

    We can get to other questions which arise from your last post when you deal with these?

    Hefty storage fee’s?

    • GALT

      Sorry Dave, that was for you……but since you’re not answering and done ( as usual )
      that I misposted it…….having to repeat the questions you CAN’T answer…..it doesn’t matter that it ended up down here……..

      • GALT

        wow….page flipped here too…….a test?…….gonna lose all this stuff too……

        Lucky Dave……

      • old hillbilly

        The last debate is now half over, and Romney just lost the election! I shut the damn TV off! It’s been worse than pathetic.. only describable as stealing the empty seat! He’s campaigning for OBAMA! Nothing said about setting the Muslim Brotherhood up as the rulers of the mid east – Egypt, now Syria, next Jordan, then Israel! God bye America… it was nice while it lasted.

      • Matrix

        Hell is waiting….

    • DaveH

      Galt is one of those guys who learns some big words, then proceeds to snow ignorant people who just don’t know that he doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about.
      You’re nothing more than a Pretentious Misinforming Socialist, Galt. Anybody with any real knowledge knows that.

      • independent thinker

        Don’t know if he is a socialist or not but he certainly is a wind bag. Galt has little to say and uses many words to show us that.

      • GALT

        I’m sorry Dave….which of the following words did you not understand…..

        leverage
        depositor
        exposure

        one of the other words?

        or was it the context? The longest question has 15 words………

    • Matrix

      GALT

      I promise you, on the first day of revolt in America, you and yours die!

      • GALT

        Revolt???????? yup….that’s going to happen……see you then…..bye now.

  • Lawrence

    America the free is lost no matter who gets elected. Both men are habitual liars and will take away what little freedom we have left

  • old hillbilly

    Like lemmings, we run to the sea… following Romney, who’s following Obama… except ObaMa is in a boat he stole from Romney. Romney doen’t know how to swim!

  • old hillbilly

    BO had the noose around his neck, standing on a Lybian bucket & tying it to a tree. Instead of kicking the bucket out from under BO, Romney helped BO off the bucket & proceeded to wrap the noose around his own neck show BO how to tie a different knot, whereupon BO kicked Romney’s bucket away & the election is over. PATHETIC!!!

  • Chris

    Two weeks to go……Gary Johnson needs your vote.

  • SJJolly

    Any POTUS that even tries to impliment Mr. Livingston’s list of government cut-backs would be quickly removed from office, as mentally deranged, with unanimous Congressional and Supreme Court approval. Too many powerful special interests would demand it.

  • Love

    Can we all agree that the bottom line is that it is worth puting all differences of opinions aside and come together to fight for our God given rights of freedom? When will everyone stop trying to push their beliefs and ideaologies onto everyone else. For those who have ears to hear the truth, eyes to see the truth, and heart to feel the truth knows that we have to act not react. Look around for like minded people ready to fight for our freedom in a civil way and get involved. Can we do more than post blogs?

    • Bert Cundle Sr.

      But: TRUTH IS A VARIABLE… LOVE IS A VARIABLE… TIME IS A VARIABLE… ( Except: NOW!) Like Minds in a matter isn’t Like minds in all matters! ( Unity & undependance, Are Variables!) Peace isn’t easy, Freedom, HAS A PRICE!

      • sam1966

        You remind me of what it says in the Bible about how they study for the truth and say they know the truth, but the truth is far from them Bert. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of God and fear of God to be a patriot.

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    WHAT YOU WON’T HEAR TONIGHT: I Appologize… / / I’m Sorry. / / CHURCH DOESAN’T MATTER. / / Like it or not… Taxes must go up, across the board! to pay the Debt Tbe Bush Family Cost us!

    • sam1966

      You mean like how Obama bin Laden increased our debt more than any other? Need to be making that popping sound. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

      You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

    • Dee

      People are still blaming Bush. Talk about pushing the envelope. How ignorant.

  • old hillbilly

    Any answer to the questions Romney flipped begins and ends with the Muslim Brotherhood. Our issue is our government using our military resources and citizen taxes to overthrow existing sovereign governments in order to replace them with the Muslim Brotherhood and Shari Law. US official talking point reasons are always “in order to replace tyranny with freedom and democracy”.

    We have been illegally engaging in acts of war and all sorts of subversive activity against mid-eastern sovereign nations without cause or declaration of war! The Muslim Brotherhood is an avowed enemy of the United States and our ally Israel. Sari Law demands death to non-believers of the Muslim faith (Christians, Jews, etc.)! The Muslim Brotherhood demands annihilation of Israel, for no other reason than it exists! The utter fiasco of deception, lies, and disgrace involving the Libya bombings & killings exposes government malfeasance in the order of the Trojan Horse.

    Bottom line, the “new” mid-east and Libya we recreated is safe for no one! No woman is safe without a sheet over her head. Christians are literally being crucified because they are Christians! It’s a hell hole environment out progressive leaders call freedom and democracy! Progressives taunt with, “Would you rather have Quadaffi, Mubarak…”, and none challenge, in spite of the fact that none were a threat to the US! The Brotherhood and their terrorist affiliates are immediate threat to citizens and our country!

    Can we spell “treason”? If so, do we know where to look up the definition?

  • Leonard M. Urban

    During the hours before his capture, you might recall that Jesus instructed his apostles to sell their coats and buy swords–I don’t think meant “Sell your coats, buy swords and open a martial arts school”. I think his message was clearly advice to them to fight for their lives when the heathen Romans came for them, too…

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