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Welfare, The American Dream

April 4, 2012 by  

Welfare, The American Dream
A Montgomery, Ala., nightclub was going to host Food Stamp Friday.

Government payouts — including Social Security, Medicare and unemployment checks — account for more than one-third of total wages and salaries in the United States. The Department of Agriculture reports that 43.6 million Americans are on food stamps.

The United States has effectively become a welfare Nation, with more Americans than ever before opting to completely drop out of the workforce and live on the public dole. The percentage of the Nation’s populace relying on social welfare as a primary source of income has risen from 21 percent to 35 percent in little more than a decade. In 1960, only 10 percent of Americans depended on welfare programs to survive.

While no statement can be made to define all recipients of social welfare in America, there is a growing and alarming trend among the dependent class: Living like a parasite on the public’s back has somehow become glamorized among some segments of American society.

Last month, Alexandria Pelosi (daughter of California Democratic Representative Nancy Pelosi) produced a video for HBO’s “Real Time with Bill Maher” wherein she interviewed multiple welfare recipients in New York City. The clip, entitled “Freeloading Welfare Queen,” offers perspective about the mindset of at least some individuals who survive only as a result of the hard work of American taxpayers. Pelosi said that she did not have to go very far in New York in order to locate “freeloading welfare queens.”

The individuals interviewed for the video — most of whom appear to be able-bodied and aged between 20 and 40 — said things like, “I’m here to get some Obama bucks” and said that they could not find work because of criminal history. When asked if they were looking for work, most of the people interviewed said they were not.

The people interviewed in the video who appear to be completely happy living on the government dole, even wearing their ability to get welfare as a badge of honor, may also explain a more recent welfare news item. A nightclub in Montgomery, Ala., recently announced that it would be hosting a “Food Stamp Friday” event, allowing patrons on food stamps to attend a rap concert at a discounted price. Public outcry since news of the event broke has made the nightclub’s owner encourage Young, Black & GettinMoney Promotions and No Lunch Promotions, to rename the planned event.

The idea of food stamps being used for fun is actually not the brainchild of the enterprising promoters of the event in Alabama, as Republicans in the House of Representatives only recently worked to enact legislation that would ban the use of welfare money at strip clubs and casinos throughout the Nation.

If freeloaders bragging at the welfare office and “Food Stamp Friday” are not convincing enough evidence that the United States is becoming an entitlement society, consider recent stories about some more grandiose welfare recipients. Nadya Suleman ( aka Octomom), who — despite already having six children and financial problems — decided to be implanted with embryos which resulted in her giving birth to eight more children, has applied for food stamps in the State of California. Suleman will receive about $2,000 per month in taxpayer funding to feed her children.

There are also a number of reports of lottery winners throughout the country continuing to draw welfare benefits after receiving big winnings. Michigan resident Amanda Clayton sparked an outcry in her State after winning a $1 million jackpot and continuing to draw welfare benefits.

“I thought that they would cut me off, but since they didn’t I thought maybe it was OK because I’m not working. I feel that it’s OK because I have no income, and I have bills to pay. I have two houses,” she explained to a reporter.

Michigan officials have since cut Clayton off the public dole. Her case, however, may offer credence to what many critics of welfare have said for decades: Entitlement perpetuates poverty by removing initiative from the equation. Despite winning a large lottery jackpot and having the opportunity to create a new life for herself, Clayton saw no stigma associated with being a parasite to American taxpayers and continued to feel entitled to her food stamps.

The bulwark of American social welfare programs was put into place as a result of the hard times of the Great Depression. According to Jerry D. Marx, Ph.D., a professor at University of New Hampshire Social Work Department, social welfare programs that were created by the Federal government were largely put into place by a bureaucracy that feared joblessness and widespread poverty would spark a revolution in the country.  Social welfare made citizens of the United States more comfortable, and anger at the government subsided. Now, more than 80 years later, social welfare has become a way of life for many Americans while large factions of groups like Occupy Wall Street are calling for more government assistance. Everybody wants to live the leisurely life of the Freeloading Welfare Queen, and politicians like President Barack Obama will give the people what they want. Anything to keep them fat, happy and subservient.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • Ghost

    I have no words….

    • Robert Smith

      May I suggest the words “Oil Subsidy?”

      How about corporate welfare?

      Maybe all those unfair tax breaks that are so narrow that they only apply to one company?

      Oh! How ’bout a bridge to nowhere?


      • Robert Dean

        Perhaps you are not aware that “Corporate Welfare” I.E. tax breaks (loopholes) are granted by the government for the purpose of choosing winners and losers. The biggest receipents ar, of course are those that make the biggest contributions to campaign funds.

      • Ladyhawke

        Do you pay federal income taxes? Do you now, or have you ever taken deductions so you could pay lowers taxes? That is what these so-called “oil company subsidies” are. They are not being given money, they are being allowed deductions against the taxes “owed”. Have you ever researched how much money these companies have tied up in oil leases that they are not allowed to drill on? Yeah, some abuse the system, just like welfare, et al, but that is no reason to demonize them all.
        No, I do not work for the oil industry, I am just a freedom loving citizen who wishes the government would get out of our way and let us live our lives. I

      • restorefreedom

        How about give away money get votes simple stuff we need to stop it all and take responsibility for ourselves beginning in elementary school and the rest of ones life. Our country is upside down!

      • Vigilant

        In view of your reply, Rob, I have just one word: “Alinsky.”

        If your only (predictable) words are deflection of the subject, that means one thing: you can’t defend the rampant abuses of the socialistic welfare system.

        Stay on topic, Saul, and try to defend against what the article describes. If you even have the guts to do it, your reply should be interesting.

      • Steve

        Wrong so very wrong!!!!!! ;

        There is no such thing as a oil subsity. Just write-offs for expenses. Welfare. food stamps, and earned income credit are subsities. Money you or corporations make is not the governements property and allowing you to keep it is not a subsity. If you taxed or take away the expense write-offs from any business the net result will be that in order to make or keep a profit they must raise prices. Only idiots would want gasoline to go up anymore than it has!!!!!! – Please use some critical thinking in the future when you coment not regurgitate false talking points.

        • Phillip Rehmann

          Not sure who I am responding to..but the person who said worng, so wrong…..subsides were ment to be used in time of need…big oil does not need…they make billions in profit every year…so why do they neeid to be subsidized?…really….if they did not make profit…maybe….but why do I…a tax payer…need to give money to a corporation that makes billions in profit…that makes no sense what-so-ever……it does in no way keep the price at the pump low…..and as far as tax write -offs are concerned…they are meant for the wealthy to keep their money….if you believe in taxing income…then ALL income should be taxed…no write offs….if you make more…then your tax assesment will be more….not your tax rate…..if everyone payed the same tax…with-in a tax bracket….of course they may pay in more because they have a greater income…..and if you don’t like that idea…put inj place a Federal Flat Tax….if you spend $1 on say…a toothbrush…then the tax you pay is no different than if you payed $3 for a toothbrush…if you can afford to spend more…then your share of the tax would be more….this in no way hurts the little man or the big man….it would be a fair share….if you speend money…you pay tax….simple…everyone has needs….and that should be taxed at the same rate…..but it’s the wants that people have, that screw things up……if you…want…to buy a million dollar home…then pay the same % of tax on that million dollars as I do on a home that cost $100,00.00……its easy….hypotheticaly….cause I don’t know what that % needs to be…lets just say…10 %…easy to work with….I pay 10% on a $100,000.00 home which would be $10,000.00….now you buy a home fo $1,000,000.00…your tax…10%…just like my tax would be…$100,000.00….what’s not fair about that….no write offs, no beter deal for the rich or the poor……equal across the board…..then and only then will it be fair to everyone in the U.S…….and guess what?….you can save billions in the furure on government…because there would be NO IRS….no forms, no audits, no employees, no one not paying……when a transaction pay the tax…simple……how hard would that be?…..

      • Robert Smith

        “. If you even have the guts to do it, your reply should be interesting.”

        How “christian” of you considering your attitude of brushing all those who need help the same.

        Some Americans do need help.

        The ones who abuse the system should be arrested, as should the banksters and the oil company execs who take money.


      • Alex Frazier

        Robert, if oil is subsidized, it’s because they are keeping their prices lower than what they should be at the government’s request, since the price per barrel of oil has been going up due to the government’s money printing operations. The principle applies to agriculture. The farmers are paid a subsidy to not grow crops.

        There is no such thing as an unfair tax break, only unfair taxes. We wouldn’t need as many taxes, nor as many tax breaks from those taxes, if there weren’t so many people living off the tax money collected through those taxes. i.e. the wealthy aren’t the problem. Making money doesn’t make you a villian, except in the eyes of the envious freeloader. And it’s generally those who pay nothing in that complain the loudest about how unfair the tax system is in favor of the wealthy. The successful business owner pays in $1,000,000 a year so five dozen freeloaders can collect $14,000 throughout the year and another $6,000 at tax time through earned income credit on income they never earned, all without lifting a finger.

        Bridges to nowhere are a tool of the government to spend money they don’t have, because deficit spending is considered necessary in the Keynesian model of economics in order to cause deliberate inflation and put your savings back into the economy without your knowledge or permission.

      • dan luster

        How about MSNBC’s parent company General Electric, and its CEO-Obama-buddy Jeff Immelt. He advises Obama on job creation in America while actually shipping jobs to China. Oh it gets better, GE payed no taxes last year. Crony socialism for select industries, of course BIG OIL gets demonized, while pushing whats left of this country into the underclass. At least we’ll vote right once are lives are subsidized. Hope and change.

      • kkflash

        How many times do we have to explain to you thick-headed liberals, that it’s not a subsidy to let a taxpayer keep their own money? It’s a subsidy when the government takes money from one taxpayer and gives it to another. It’s not a subsidy to reduce any taxpayer’s already exorbitant taxes.

        There will never be a chance of the left and right coming together on any productive changes in our messed-up government until the left stops lying about what is going on.

      • kkflash

        dan luster,
        Don’t be a kool-aid drinking mouthpiece for the left until you understand the facts. General Electric’s finance business lost $30 Billion in 2007-08, and they are still carrying forward those losses. Until they earn enough money to get back in the black on a multi-year basis, their current year tax rate will be near zero. There’s nothing unfair about that. Individual taxpayers are given the same right to carry over capital losses and offset them against current income until those losses are offset by income.
        Remember, it was individuals who bought the houses and defaulted on the mortgages that caused GE’s losses. But you on the left don’t expect those individuals to eventually pay up for those defaults. Rather, you expected and got the government to bail them out with forced mortgage renegotiations imposed on the financial institutions. Instead of individuals having to be responsible for their own foolish financial decisions, those on the left insist that it was the bank’s fault if the individual didn’t pay their mortgage as agreed. If the price of housing went down instead of up, that was somehow the bank’s fault too. If the home went up in value, the homeowner expects to keep all the profit, but if they bought at too high a price, and lost money that is somehow the bank’s problem.
        What a bunch of hypocrites you libs are.

    • Honestly

      Ghost..I completely understand. When I was young, I mean 16 with 2 children and an ex-husband and father that would not pay child support I had to make a choice, to live off of everyone else or pull us up by the boot straps and do the best I could. I chose to grab those boot straps. It was never easy, but I had to look in the mirror everyday and when I did I was not disturbed by what looked back at me. What has happened to the desire to achieve in this country?

    • Ellen

      Wefare used to be controlled by morals. People were ashamed to have illegitimate kids and collect food stamps and welfare. It was embarrassing. Today, over 50% of babies born in the US are illegitimate. Worse, over 40% are born into welfare. Why does the government think mama and daddy shouldn’t be held responsible for the kids they’ve created, but the taxpayers should? We’ve also added uneducated immigrants who can’t support themselves, so we give them welfare. We need to change welfare to a loan system. I have no doubt that 40% of babies born into welfare each year will drop drastically once mama realizes she no linger has a free ride and will need to pay back every penny provided to her. We can’t change peoples’ morals, but we can stop them from bringing more babies into the world of poverty.


    How dare you include social security with welfae and food stamps. You are a disgusting moron.
    I paid for my social security and my medicare all my life and when I hear some moron include it with welfare and food stamps I just want to Punch you and fix your head.

    I was told that when I reached retirement that I would be well cared for, instead the Dumocraps stole the social security fund for the GREAT SOCIETY in the mid 60′s and have been bleeding it dry ever since with one new give away program after another.
    If I had opted to stay out of social security and simply invested the same amount in the market over the last 50 years, I would be a millionaire today instead of receiving the paltry sum social security pays out now.
    So Please if you are going to talk about wasteful government give aways start with foreign aid, the U.N., welfare, Food stamps. But don’t include socail security and medicaire.
    We paid for that.
    Unlike the Dumocrap voting base that thrives at our expense.

    • Dale Howard

      Thank you for expressing my exact feelings about S.S. & Medicare.

      • Flashy

        FYI…you diss the Dems, and support the ones who are trying every way they can to cut out your SS and Medicare?

      • grumpy old man

        I know that last comment is about the Repubs. however G B wanted to make a portion of the S. S. private It was the Dems that said he wanted to starve old people. playing on the ignorance of the liberal thinking gimmie a hand out lefties so they could continue to offer other peoples money to buy votes, if the ignorant saps that do not realise that when the Dems. no longer need their vote they will be the first in the FEMA camps.. Privetise S. S. . Or become a government worker and not have to contribute to S. S. .

    • rendarsmith

      OLD DAD,

      What you paid was stolen and spent elsewhere. What you are receiving is MY social security payments that I pay now. I fear by the time I retire (in 40 years) there will be nothing.

      • ekim

        That is the very reason that Patriots MUST engage and involve themselves with this politically correct idea that this ” Government Of The People By The People” owes everyone something is ludicrous ! By your participation on this venue, I can see that you are concerned, YOU ARE NOT ALONE ! STAND for TRUTH and REASON !

      • Dark_Archer

        I’m 54 and I KNOW that I will NEVER see one red cent of what I paid in to SS it will be long gone by the time I can even think of retireing ,and by the time I reach retirement age they will have pushed the new retirement age up will be 72…were all screwed …except your congress and senate they will still live like kings while your groveling for your own money

      • Honestly

        rendarsmith….Unfortunately, you are probably correct, but that does not take away from what that generation paid in and they should get that. Now your generation must be wise about who you elect to get this corrected for you.

      • JC

        Spending by government currently amounts to about 45 percent of national income. By that test, government owns 45 percent of the means of production that produce the national income. The U.S. is now 45 percent socialist.
        – Milton Friedman
        (1912-2006) Nobel Prize-winning economist, economic advisor to President Ronald Reagan, “ultimate guru of the free-market system”
        Source: “We Have Socialism, Q.E.D.” in The New York Times (31 December 1989

        And racing towards 100% Socialism and complete collapse.

    • ekim

      AMEN Brother ! Start with those who got us in this predicament, ALL government salaries, benefits, pensions, staffs and perks should be cut by 66% OR eliminated entirely, after all it is a volunteer position to help the people, isn’t it !

    • old sarge

      The only really earned entitlements are social security and medicare, military retirement and va disability payments.

      • David Ozanne

        Amen brother Amen
        GySgt USMC (Retired)

      • castaway

        In addition, for everything you veterans gave, you get very little in return, and are generally treated like garbage that washed up on shore. You fought their foolish battles,Made them milliions, died, had limbs blown off, and what do you really get for it all

    • Tom Cook

      Olddad, sorry, you are the moron. You only paid a small part of your social security welfare. You are a parasite; I paid the bulk of your social security. It is a Ponzi scheme with those of us who have really produced subsidizing those like you who were just minimal contributors. I don’t ever plan to “retire.” Who told you that you had a right to “retire’ you money-sucking vermin.

      • castaway

        Hey Tom, a bunch of us are having a party next Friday night. You are invited. Simply dial 6666, and you will recieve directions. Although I do not think you need them.

      • Ted Crawford

        WOW why so hostlle Tom your welfare check late again?

      • Mark in LA

        Tom technically you are right in that, until Carter increased the contribution and Reagan accelerated the scheduled increases so he could use the Social Security funds to hide his deficits, the amount taken out and the yearly maximum contribution were quite low. This is why I always laugh when old timers claim that they would be millionaires if only they had been able to invest their own SS money.

        Remember SS was only supposed to be a supplement for people who paid into it. You were supposed to have a private pension and savings. It has been distorted into the poor’s retirement fund. Claude Pepper used his clout to get the benefit indexed to inflation. That is part of the reason the government continually underestimates the inflation rate. All sorts of special benefits were created to suck even more out of the fund.

        The real problem is our economy, there is no place for an elderly worker any more. There are no small mom and pop stores where somebody who can’t get around well can still be productive. What are you going to do with these people?

    • James

      I know a 86 year old who went to the social security office to get a replacement for his 40 year old card, and he said there was not one old person in the social security office. They were all young people. So what’s up with that?

      • Carol

        Because if they can’t get on welfare they fake a disability and try getting SSI. My son worked for a company that hired three black ‘disability’ recipients and paid them under the table. Bosses like that should be reported and jailed but my son was afraid to report them because of the repercussions of being beaten by the blacks or losing his job.

        I think when you’re on welfare your right to vote should be taken away, especially when liberals are paying you to vote for them with other people’s money. Either that or liberals should go to jail for buying votes and keeping people under involuntary servitude (welfare) but keeping them as slaves is the only way they can get votes. Does anyone realize that every city where a liberal was elected has gone to the dogs and the crime rate has doubled? Those with IQ’s the same as their age shouldn’t be allowed to vote either, and they certainly shouldn’t be elected as President of America.

        As far as SS, I think if every citizen is forced to pay into the Ponzi scheme, every elected official should begin paying into the system just as every elected official should be given the same health care if Obamacare passes. They work for us and they should not be given a pass out of Obamacare or to pay into a private fund and earn $10,000+ a month while the private retiree earns 1/3 that amount. It’s unconscionable to even think how the American public has been scammed by their SERVANTS.

      • Alex Frazier

        Carol, I can get behind that idea 100%. You’re right. People who collect government charity shouldn’t be permitted to vote. They are a moral hazard. They have every reason to vote for the politician who offers the most free benefits and absolutely no motivation to vote responsibly and for the best candidate relative to the issues.

        Of course, this is how our Constitution was originally written. The poll tax was designed to prevent the poor (and generally ignorant when poor) from voting. It was amended and removed from the Constitution. Personally, I think the founders knew exactly what they were doing. You won’t have welfare if the poor can’t vote. And it’s not a knock on the poor. But the fact is, the financial trouble we’re having now is a direct result of the welfare/warfare state.

        • Phillip Rehmann

          WOW….can’t believe how stupid of a comment that was Alex….the poor are ignorant…really……because I am poor dose not mean I have no ability to think or reason, nor does it take away my rights as a citizen or as a human being…..if you stop and think about it….it is the people who are college educated that passewd all these laws and programs to give them the advantage of “buying” the poor pesons vote as you so called it….only the rich can run for office and be elected to rule over us poor, uneducated idiots….you need to take a step back and consider how arrogant you sound…..if my vote actually counted for something…,I sure would not vote for a free society…I belive in fair hard work from all….I am 52 and have held a job , in the public since I was 16, have served in the military and payed my taxes….so where do you get off saying,…because I am poor I have no right to vote….you sound as if you are an eleitist of some sort with a statement like that….is your education so shallow as to not see what the people with money and power are trying to do….you are a prime example of their sucsess….in dividing the masses into fighting over the little things while they take away our money, our jobs and our dignity and give it to some 3rds world person for $10 bucks a day….so they may reap the benifits of being rich and in power….you need to re-think your statement….cause it is part of the problem…..

        • T i m

          You are ssoo wrong . I am self employed , 1 click above the poverty level . I am not ignorant or stupid. I do not know why Ms. Pelosi wrote the welfare article . IT DOES NOT APPLY TO EVERYONE . DO NOT CALL ME IGNORANT TILL YOU MEET ME .

      • Alex Frazier

        @ Phillip: Although I knew offense would be taken by those who feel my comment applied to them, no offense was truly meant. Neither is any offfense meant when I say that the fact that you don’t comprehend what I’m saying goes to show that you are a bit ignorant, by definition meaning uninformed, not stupid.

        Being poor does not mean you do not have the ability to think or reason. I never said it does. Nor did I say that all poor people were ignorant, but that in general they were, and this is proven in things as simple as lacking the ability to spell words correctly in their thirties and forties. They are very obviously poorly educated.

        You were never given the “right” to vote until they amended the Constitution to open voting to all persons. Voting was a privilege, and it was extended primarily to those who were educated (often demonstrated by the means to pay the poll tax). Every vote cast affects everyone. The idea of universal suffrage is ridiculous. Are you blind to the effect it has had?

        You want to shake your fist in the air and declare, “I have a right!” Well so does the sixth grade drop out who can barely write their name, much less comprehend politics, economics, law, banking, foreign policy, war, or anything else that affects each and every citizen via the vote.

        As you point out yourself, smart people (who know how to get things done) did away with the poll tax in order to buy the poor man’s vote with handouts and other favors from government. This goes to show that while the act seemed favorable to those who believed they would benefit by gaining the vote, the intent was actually malicious. And the end result is a welfare state, borderline national bankruptcy, and 70% of our Bill of Rights nullified.

        You call me arrogant. I say I’m educated.

        Now, I didn’t say you shouldn’t vote, or that poor people shouldn’t vote. I said that you should have to pay the poll tax. Voting is a privilege, not a right, or at least it wasn’t a right until it was amended. Voting is also a huge responsibility. No matter how much you grumble about my point of view, it’s a plain fact that millions of idiots lined up to vote for Obama for no other reason than because he was black. There are tons of videos online with interview after interview. These people had no idea what the man stood for. They knew absolutely nothing about the other candidate.

        So try not to get bent out of shape because I think there should be some accountability when it comes to voting. Because of morons who vote by whim, putting poorly qualified candidates in various offices, I am now paying twice what I was paying ten years ago for groceries, utilities, gasoline, entertainment, and everything else. This isn’t my fault. Nor do I blame the politicians who are merely doing what they were elected to do. I blame the ignorant voters who put those politicians in office.

        It’s a fact that if voters in general weren’t retarded, there wouldn’t be a Congressman from Georgia who sincerely thought an island could capsize.

        Get with the program. Just say no to irresponsible voting.

        @ T i m: I’m not wrong. You’re self employed. That’s a good thing. Hopefully you’ll be successful soon so you can start supporting people who, “just want a check,” and who “don’t want a job,” and who spend tax payer dollars on Budweiser.

        If you’re not ignorant or stupid, how is it that you don’t know why Pelosi filmed those interviews? Are you truly that blind to the problem, and the scope of that problem? Do you honestly not understand that the greater majority of people in the system are there because they don’t want to work, and not because there isn’t any work? You should go down to the welfare office. There is a work program in each and every one of them. Recipients of benefits are requires to look for work and to take training classes in order to find a job.

        Finally, I didn’t call you ignorant. I said that poor people tended to be ignorant in general. But this obviously does not apply across the board to everyone.

        • Phillip Rehmann

          While I do agree with some of the points you have made……I am in no way ignorant of anything…..and as you so well put it…the educated , used their ability to decieve and be malicous to steer things in a direction that would be benifical to them…the wealthy and educated… , do you, as you claim to be….educated, have the right to do such things….I feel not….as for many who lined up to vote for Obama, simply because he was black…you are 100% correct…but it was not only the poor uneducated black people that did so…….it was also the uneducated white people, …the educated black people and the educated white people…..people from all walks of life, all races, and relegions, lined up to vote for the carismatic lier that we now have as a president……..and as far as your poll tax is concerned….it goes back 2000 yrs and posibly more….but one of the unique things if you did much educated research on it, would have found out….was that it was a tax levied mostly on the rich and well off….clergy, women, slaves….and the poor were exempt…..not untill the late 1800′s ,early 1900′s was it used as a device to keep people from voteing…..then it was used to supress the blacks , since most were freed slaves and poor, white people as well….so I ask you, are you a racist, because I could think that since that is what a poll tax was used for…..also it was used in order to fill the coffers of those that chose to go to war with other nations…..are you a war monger…….I agree when you say we need to vote responsibly…..but your notion that we should charge a poll tax is very flawed….do you think someone like…hmmm…Paris Hilton, with all her inherited wealth, could possibly make an informed dicesion on government or world politics…she is a wealthy person that could pay any poll tax that might be levied……maybe the problem does not lay in the hands of those who vote….but in the hands of the educated and wealthy that use their money and power to corrupt…… you really think the average, hard working American would want to bankrupt his own country, or take away the bill of rights…I say not….only those that seek political gain, wealth and power would do such things…I mean…Obama…who I think you have a great distaste for…so do I…is a college educated lawyer…see my point……its not the average man who is the problem….it is not the poor undereducated person that is the problem… my friend have good intentions , but I feel you are traveling down a road that has no means to end well…..Have you heard of or concerned with NWO….all our presidents have refered to this as far back as Regan….maybe that is the intent of the educated and wealthy….to make us all serfs to their needs and wants….get back to me on that…if you dare….

      • Alex Frazier

        No one has the right to do malicious things. The wealthy do it because the wealthy can do it. But don’t kid yourself into thinking that the poor don’t do it as well. That is the sole reason for the vote in the first place; to visit upon a perceived oppressive society their just desserts. Both ends of the social structure fight to live at the expense of the other. If you consider that for a moment, you will find that to be true. The wealthy make money at the expense of the poor, and the poor clamor to take their living by the taxation of the rich. In any society where government is assigned a role greater than what is natural, this is the result.

        Ultimately, it is a matter of human nature. Four things make up political economy. Want, effort, satisfaction, and value. Each individual acts in his or her own best interest. And it is the goal, conscious or otherwise, of every person to satisfy as many wants with the greatest perceived value for the least amount of effort. When left to its own devices, this system of self interest creates a free market that thrives.

        A poll tax has had two historical meanings. The older is that of a fee that had to be paid to satisfy taxpayer requirements in voting laws. In some places, only people who could demonstrate a financial tie to a community were permitted to vote in that community. For those who did not otherwise own property or pay taxes, this sort of poll tax was sufficient to allow voting. More recently, however, a poll tax is a tax that must be paid by anyone wishing to cast a vote. Poll taxes of this sort were generally low, perhaps a dollar or two, but high enough to make voting uneconomical for poor people.

        Whether or not it was used against blacks or to go to war is irrelevant. How a government chooses to use the tax revenue is not my concern. A poll tax in principle was to make sure someone was voting with conviction. What they were voting on mattered to them, and they were taking the time to do what they felt was best for the community or for the country. Any poor person who felt any real conviction to vote always had the opportunity to save money for the purpose of voting. The tax was voluntary. You didn’t have to pay it if you didn’t want to vote.

        So no, I’m not a racist. I just believe that people should have a better reason to vote for someone than the color of their skin, or because they made them feel good.

        Paris Hilton and some of the other wealthy individuals … I can’t say that I disagree with you. But my real gripe is not against the poor, but against the ignorant. A poll tax is just one way to weed out some of the uneducated. Clearly, though, there’s not much that can be done about liberals. But then again, if responsible voters had been voting in our government all along, perhaps our schools would never have started teaching this liberal nonsense in the first place. Back in the 50s, conservative ideals were commonplace. Now they are shunned.

        But as to your question about whether or not I think the average, hard-working American would want to bankrupt his own country, or take away the Bill of Rights, I have to honestly say that they do. If they don’t then my point is proven. Our nation is in trouble. It’s in big trouble. We are in constant wars. We are on the verge of bankruptcy. We have more debt than we can ever hope to pay off. Half of our country is dependent upon government assistance. There’s a new petition every week for further restrictions on our rights. The free market is being stymied to the point of stagnation. The three branches meant to oppose each other are working in concert to bring the American people to heel.

        This leads to the singular conclusion that either the people want this, or the people are too ignorant to understand what is happening. And that’s precisely the point I’ve been making. My freedom is in jeopardy because of a million irresponsible votes.

        During one of the debates, Ron Paul said something to the effect of, “We shouldn’t have to sacrifice the Bill of Rights in order to stop criminal like Timothy McVey (spelling?).” And Newt had responded, in favor of the Patriot Act, by saying, “He succeeded.” This, of course, brought cheers and applaus, and all I could think of was the scene in Star Wars episode III when what’s her name said, “So this is how liberty dies. To the sound of thundrous applaus.” The people lose their freedom in plain sight and applaud and cheer it on.

        I do understand what you’re saying about the corrupt wealthy being the ones who are breaking the system. But what I’m saying is that it’s the ignorant voters who put them there in the first place, and who vote them back in, even when they sign things into law like the Patriot Act. The best possible way to stop the corruption at the top is to stop voting them in from the bottom.

        And yet … the people vote for Mitt Romney!

        It’s certainly possible that the NWO is the agenda. But I can tell you that the day they announce it, every gun in my house will be loaded and chambered, my bug out bag will be ready to go … and I intend to shoot any foreign military I see in my neighborhood.

      • kkflash

        You propose a very sensible idea, that welfare recipients should give up their right to vote as long as they are living off the taxpayers. The idea of a poll tax, as originally included in the Constitution, doesn’t sit well with me, because the working poor would be harmed by it much more than the more affluent. But, for those who have chosen the public dole, IMO they have sold their right to vote for that welfare check. After all, what is the right to vote but an indirect say in how your money is to spent by government? Why should you deserve any say in how the money is spent if you didn’t contribute any of it? It’s bad enough the voting roles are full of people who pay no income tax (by a recent count nearly 50%). Anyone who has gone one step beyond that to receiving a check AND paying nothing should have to give up something in return, and giving up the right to vote is both fair and reasonable.
        I also would put incarcerated criminals in the same category. While they are under the sole protection and care of the state, they should forfeit their right to vote, and get it back after they’ve paid their debt to society and been released.

      • Vigilant

        Alex says, “You won’t have welfare if the poor can’t vote.”

        I beg to differ. Please think that one through.

        In any system that rewards the rich and disenfranchises the poor two things will happen:

        (1) It would be in the best interests of the rich (voters) to continually increase the size of the disenfranchised class. By doing so, the power of the oligarchs would be consolidated and enhanced. They would do this by two techniques: raising the poverty level (as has always been done by the left), and throwing a bone to the poor through continued welfare via taxing a diminishing middle class.

        (2) Ultimately, the political class would be able to (and would) pass laws to keep the poor in line (economically). The nation would become as the old company towns of the coal mining era.

        If you think disenfranchising the poor wouldn’t have them rioting in the streets, then I’ve a bridge to sell you. The toothpaste is already out of the tube on the universal suffrage issue, and any attempts to curtail voting in this manner would foment a storm this nation could not survive.

        Lastly, your views are elitist, to be sure. The slaves had no say in how the pyramids would be built in ancient Egypt. The Founders guaranteed us the notion of individual sovereignty for good reasons. Their views on qualifications for voting were such that they left that up to the states.

        But they also included Article V, and that was used on numerous occasions to correct the inadequacies and oversights of the Constitution. An enlightened electorate decided that universal suffrage fulfilled the promises of the dignity and sovereignty of the individual that you would now have them relinquish.

      • Vigilant

        And by the way, Alex, your suggestion would FURTHER the NWO agenda, if such exists.

      • Vigilant

        “Now, I didn’t say you shouldn’t vote, or that poor people shouldn’t vote. I said that you should have to pay the poll tax. Voting is a privilege, not a right, or at least it wasn’t a right until it was amended.”

        And whoever had the largest war chest would then be able to bribe the poor voters by offering to pay their poll tax. The tax would be paid, and the bribers would be swept into office.

        Kinda like welfare, huh?

    • T i m

      BRAVO Mr Rolley . My name is T i m . Wonderful to finaly see some one stand up and say this . I been screaming about this ever since I found out . Old DAD , you are so mis informed . Prove it yourself . SOCIAL SECURITY WAS CREATED FOR THE WELFARE POPULATION . Log in to Freedom Disability insurance . It is advertised on cable televisision ALL DAY EVERY DAY . It is a lawyers office , specializes in guaranteed disability income , for all signed applications . small print says EVERY ONE qualifies . 1 8 years old till death do us part . Small print on web information as well as television information says , ALL MONEY’S PAID TO RECEIPIENT ARE PAID FROM SOCIAL SECURITY . READ IT YOUR SELF ….AM I missing something ……Every recorded wage earner in the nation pays welfare through social security . It makes no difference what party you claim . My father died from cancer shortly after retirement . Mom was already gone . WELFARE GOT ALL HIS MONEY . I will never see any social security . I was forced into self employment years ago . My money is in my pocket . …The more you earn the more you pay into welfare , through social secuirty . PROVE IT YOUR SELF , SIR….Our government is growing the welfare population by 1 0 0 0 ‘s per month . All of it paid from social security . I deeply regret telling you this . It is fact . Soon as M S M picks up on this , what kind of revolution you think that will cause .

      • castaway

        [offensive comment removed]

      • Honestly

        Tim…Your day is coming to know how he feels.

    • restorefreedom

      Charity starts at home but why are we paying into all these bs programs in the first place?
      Take care of yourself the rest of us have our hands full!

    • Hey You

      No, you did not “pay” for your social “security”. The supreme court ruled many years ago that SS payments were taxes. Get that? You were taxed for years regardless of the governments’ implication that you were paying into your account.

      SS is simply welfare, as another ruling has confirmed. The reason it is now being paid is to provide some justification for those who now pay the tax to feel less bad about it. Just be happy that you are still getting some devaluated dollars

      • Honestly

        Hey you….anyone that works and declares honestly on their W-4 and or self-employment has and will pay into this account and that generation has done their share. Now it is your turn.

        • David Ozanne

          Social security defined by the Supreme Court does not mean that it is right. The SCOTUS also declared slavery to be legal.

    • Larry G.

      Ok fine, so once you have used up all that you paid in and still continue to get a check, it’s welfare. My old Dad has been retired for 30 years and he has used up what he paid in 2 times over. Now he’s on social security welfare. They don’t stop the checks when you’ve exceeded what you’ve paid in do they. NO

    • Thirty-Something

      Old Dad,
      Thanks to your gov’t, the SS and Medicare money that you have put in has been spent via borrowing from discretionary spending. It’s gone forever to pay for all the things beyond the costs of what the gov’t had collected from income/corporate/gift/death/excise taxes. I do feel bad for you that the gov’t gave you the big slap in the face by spending your hard-earned money which I wish you would have had all along, but to demand you receive SS and Medicare payments is just robbing the current folks paying in to the system. It’s a Ponzi scheme and you were a victim. I understand your pain, but please don’t make it mine.

      • Mark in LA

        It’s no more a ponzi scheme than insurance – especially whole life insurance. The only difference is more of what is paid in goes out to the recipents and less to the pockets on the company executives.

    • RoughandReady

      Amen …. Old DAD … I hear ya!!!! I have paid into the Social Security System for over 50 years (55 to be exact) and get less per month than most of the “welfare queens” because I do not have 4 kids on welfare. There is so much work to be done in this country to get it back on stable ground and back to the ideas and virtues that made it geat …. hard work, loyalty, dedication … a country of givers instead of takers. This country “was” one of the most generous in the world … we are becoming the greediest because of our government … of the people, for the poeple, and by the people … bah humbug!!! ABO for 2012 (ANYBODY …. and I mean ANYBody but Obama)

    • Alex Frazier

      Old Dad, I don’t want to burst your bubble, but you didn’t pay in what you’re getting back. If you consider the small percentage of every paycheck that went into SS and Medicare, adjusted retroactively for inflation, what you’re collecting would exhaust itself in a year, two years at the most, and that’s only collecting your SS benefits. It says nothing of your doctor visits, which become more costly and more frequent as you get older.

      While I fully appreciate your point of view, you are not being realistic. You are expecting to collect $1,100 a month for hopefully another twenty years ($264,000 total), when you’ve spent roughly fifty years paying in, which, using only today’s approximate amount, comes to about $30 a week if you have an average job. That’s $78,000 over your working lifetime. But you didn’t pay $30 a week for SS back in 1960. The cost of living was lower. Wages were lower. You would have only made a fraction of what you would make today, and what you paid in was relative to that reduced amount. Heck, minimum wage was $3.25 back in the 80s when I got my first job. I have no idea what it was back in 1960, but I’m quite certain it was lower still.

      So make no mistake, your argument in and of itself says it all in terms of entitlement. In fact, people collecting Social Security feel more entitled than any other person living on the government dole. You feel so entitled to what you didn’t actually pay for that you have internet rants about the nerve of people who call Social Security an entitlement.

      I don’t wish you ill, and I don’t wish you cut off. But it would be nice if you would at least take the time to appreciate that you are getting something you didn’t give, and that it’s a gift from the taxpayers, not something you are entitled to.

      • Karolyn

        Personally, I believe that we who have worked our whole lives to help build this country and its economy are entitled to get something back for all the taxes we’ve paid over all those years, especially those like me who never even had kids to take advantage of the school systems paid for by tax dollars and who never took time off but just worked straight through for 45-50 years (and are still working!)

      • Alex Frazier

        Karolyn, that argument I can get behind. You’ve paid taxes in general for things that benefitted other people. You’ve suffered the effects of inflation and have had your money devalued. The taxes you pay go to welfare, foreign aid, etc.

        Anyone who wants to make that argument, I can agree with it. In principle at least. Though it does nothing to generate the funds needed to pay you to live for twenty years.

        The only thing I was speaking out against was the idea that we pay in to SS, so we therefore deserve to collect a living for twenty years in our retirement. NO ONE has paid that much into SS, so it is Social Welfare no matter what way you slice it.

        • Phillip Rehmann

          Poor Alex…you are so far off basewith your rants and raves as to what a person should collect from SS…..let me explain why…….SS is called insurance…therefore the premiums paid in, should have been invested to bring in dividends….as an example…health insurance….I am going out on a limb here and assume you have such…and have paid into such said insurance…..lets say your premiums cost you…hmmmm….$1560/yr…that would be $30/wk…don’t want you to get lost….you start paying this premium at the ripe old age of 18….you pay it for …lets use your number of 50 yrs….so….you have paid in, $78.000. in your life up to the age of 68……you have a heart attack and your Dr. tells you…you need open heart surgry in order to live……the average cost in the U.S. for open heart surgry is…get ready for this…and look it up if you don’t believe me…..$125,000.00….so…I guess you just need to die…since you only put in $78,000.00……..where do you think the rest of the money to pay for it would come from…OH…wait a minute…from the interest paid on said premiums and the dividends paid on said premiums….or did you forget that…I mean…SS is an insurance….so how much should thse premiums and dividends be?……for the working man who paid in his whole life….and didn’t have a say as to how that money should be invested… a college educated answer for this….as you called me….poor , ignorant, moraly deprived individual…..and I can figure that out with only a highschool education bud…..where is your smartass answer to this statement…….???????????

        • Honestly

          Alex says:…Karolyn, that argument I can get behind. You’ve paid taxes in general for things that benefitted other people. You’ve suffered the effects of inflation and have had your money devalued.

          I must disagree. That would depend upon the person and what they paid in. Since you do not know that information about everyone, I would say you are making too broad a statement.

      • Alex Frazier

        Well Phillip …

        Social Security is paid to everyone at retirement age, barring a few select people who for whatever reason choose not to file for it. Maybe they are wealthy and have no need. Who’s to say.

        Insurance is paid to specific claims as needed.

        When one hundred people pay into Social Security at a rate of $30 a week for fifty years and the same one hundred people collect Social Security at a rate of $1100 a month for twenty years, there is a total of $7,800,000 coming in, and a total of 26,400,000 going out, which is an increase in the aggregate of 70.45%. And this is using simple numbers without any proper consideration of inflation and the fact that their Social Security payments in 1960 on an average paycheck might have been closer to $6 or $10, maybe less.

        Using these numbers, since the government doesn’t invest the Social Security Trust in the stock market, the most we are going to get is 5% on average, with some years lower and others higher. The Trust is presently invested in Treasury Bonds with a .05% yield, and even proposals to invest the Social Security Trust in the stock market anticipate no more than a 6-7% yield. Higher returns, like 15-20%, are usually only possible with high risk investments, and the government isn’t going to do that. In fact, after the 2008 fiasco, they aren’t going anywhere near the market with the Trust due to the volatility.

        So what we’re actually stuck with is having the Social Security Trust invested in Treasury Bonds, which I find highly ironic, since the average 3-5% interest (which has dropped to .05% over the last two years) is paid to the American investors with American tax dollars.

        So to give the rate a comfortable average of 5% to account for the decades when rates were a little better than .05%, we are left with a total $7,800,000 paid in by the beneficiaries, and $24,369,256 paid in by everyone else.

        Since the birth rate exceeds the death rate, these numbers will compound anually until tax revenue is solely directed to Social Security benefits, or until the country goes broke or ends the program.

        Now, in the case of insurance, the big difference is that the premiums are an appropriate amount, and not everyone needs to use their insurance. While, as you say, open heart surgery may cost $125,000, not everyone is going to need it.

        If one hundred people paid in $240 a month, there would be an anual revenue of $312,000. According to the CDC, approximately 500,000 people die from heart disease every year, and according to the American Heart Association, most people don’t know they have heart trouble until it’s too late. If you consider a population of 310,000,000 in the United States, the total number of heart related deaths amounts to approximately .0016% of the population every year.

        So if one person in a hundred were to need open heart surgery each year (which is .01% and flies in the face of the odds), relative to the premiums paid, there would still be a net profit.

        It’s all about the numbers. That’s why insurance companies prefer to pay for births than for birth control. They can pay for one birth for every three hundred women, or they can pay for birth control for a hundred and fifty million of them, every month, year in and year out, for years on end.

        So to answer your question, Social Security doesn’t function like insurance. In fact, it is a tax according to the Supreme Court. Virtually everyone who pays in collects, and no one who collects gets back only what they paid in, but more, and at the expense of their fellow tax payers. Insurance is insurance. But most people collect far less than what they pay in. They pay in $3,000 a year and go to five doctor visits at a cost of $80 a visit, plus a few prescriptions as needed. Big medical expenses are usually not covered on small plans, and the averages work out that the insurance company is still operating at a profit. For every person with a heart condition, there are a thousand others insured by the same company who are in excellent health and rarely even need Tylenol, much less a doctor.

        I hope this suffices. Ask away if you have more questions.

      • Alex Frazier

        @ Honestly:

        You disagree and think I’m making too broad a statement because you aren’t giving proper weight to the second paragraph.

        “Anyone who wants to make that argument, I can agree with it. In principle at least. Though it does nothing to generate the funds needed to pay you to live for twenty years.”

        It’s the principle I agree with. I would sue the Federal Government if I could. Seeing that my tax dollars go to foreign aid, wars I don’t believe in, welfare that I don’t approve of, etc., I think I should have the right under the fifth amendment to not have my private property taken for public use without just compensation. And I can find no compensation for the dollars that have been confiscated through taxation to pay for all these things that do not benefit me or my neighbors in any way.

        So by the same token, I can agree that anyone who has paid in dutifully all their lives for things paid for with taxes that they never had cause to take advantage of should have just compensation. If that means a free ride in later life, then so be it.

        But again, the funds need to be found. They don’t fall out of a magic pot of gold from the moon.

    • Jack Brown

      I am 68 yesars old and I have not missed a payday since I turned 12 years old (washing dishes in my Dad’s resturant). I never once had a food stanp, unemployment or welfare like some of the leeches we have in America. I cannot express my disgust with the comments linking Social Security and Medicare with food stamps and other handout programs. I earned every penny I am drawing.

      When LBJ’s administration elected to raid the coffers of Social Security I could hear the death knoll for America as we know it starting to ring. If we don’t get the Democrats out of Washington , and very quickly, we are doomed.

      Read the history of Rome and you can see what is happening. When Rome de-valued citizenship, tried to fight wars on several fronts, and fell victim to political corruption, it fell from being the greatest power in the world to mediocrity. (sound like what’s happening today?)


    • American Working Man

      OLD DAD, get lost from the Retirement community. You talked about Medicare and Social Security, then went on a tangent about BIg Oil. What’s up with that?

  • Flashy

    Sure there are people who take advantage of the system. heck, on this website one sees ads several times a week stating how to take advantage of the system and leech. but for the most part, those drawing unemployment and welfare don’t want to be in that position.

    The solution? End welfare for the wealthy, put SSI on a means based test, (same with Medicare), cut out the corporate subsidies for those which do not need it, and quit listening to those espousing failed policies (such as the Ryan Fraudulent Budget of 2012)

    • ekim

      If something needs to be cut, why start with the people ! Start with those running the government instead. Cut ALL government salaries, ALL, by 66% and that is just for starters ! Cut staff, benefits, eliminate congressional pensions entirely, put them on SS with everyone else ! Stop ALL foreign aid until we are DEBT FREE !
      The FANTASY WORLD that PELOSI lives in must STOP !

      • T i m

        Ron Paul has said what you want , and Establishment Elite has him blacklisted . NNOOWW , what do we do . The other 3 guys will continue business as usual . CONGRESS DOES NOT WANT TO MISS A PAYCHECK . Bush Sr. said past Christmas , Romney will be president …………..I will continue to support Ron Paul

      • Honestly

        ekim…At least make their salaries and benefits fit the rest of the country, for sure!

    • stopspending4

      Flashy, great plan. Let’s tax those that work hard and GIVE it to those that do nothing to contribute to the tax base. SSI, food stamps, medicare, medicaid all have means testing. Social Security is a system where you pay into the system, they theoretically invest for you and return it as a retirement payment. I am sure most workers would love to stop paying for social security and in exchange they would not receive retirement benefits.
      Particularly like your comment about not “giving” to those that do not “need” it. Exactly who gets to decide who “needs” it? I would definitely say that healthy adults can find a way to support themselves and do not “need” help from society. Those parasites need to be taken off the gov dole and get some self respect and take care of themselves. The parasite numbers are quit large. That is not the same as saying society should not help or take care of those that “can not” take care of themselves – sick, handicapped, elderly, etc.

      • Flashy

        OK..let’s have one thing straight from the git go. As defined in the bill, Social Security is a social insurance program that is primarily funded through dedicated payroll taxes called Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax (FICA).

        OK? It is an INSURANCE PROGRAM. We have taken to calling it SS to distinguish from SSI supplemental payments.

        So..the line of “i paid into it and I’m deserving of it back” is false. Just as paying auto or health insurance and demanding it back because you may not have used it.

        Now…your comments about “Let’s tax those that work hard and GIVE it to those that do nothing to contribute to the tax base” … are self serving, displays an amazing degree of unknowing, and ignores the base issue…people have been raped by the wealthy and Corporate interests and have nothing left in the coffers.

        As the Clinton years showed, when revenue is increased, and people are working, we have a budget that nears balancing. As the Reagan and Bush II years showed, you cut taxes on the wealthy, strip the social net, and increase subsidies to the corporate interests, you have massive deficits.

        Do the math. get a grip on reality.

    • Sirian

      Tell ya what, try this one on for size. . . how’s ‘bout phasing out SS. Reduce the amount paid out by 1%/yr. over the next fifty years. From this stand point it wouldn’t be devastating to everyone that is presently on SS – a 1% pay reduction per year can be adapted to. In so doing, would it not then establish a different mindset, especially amongst the younger generation that has very little to look forward to in this area of non-concern? I put it as “non-concern” in relation to them for in actuality, how many people in their twenties or even thirties are truly focused on how much they will get from SS? Few, very few if any at all. By taking this path it also will not be overly cruel to those that are getting close to SS years plus those that are already receiving SS. A bill could be written up on this approach, no more than three pages long more than likely, submitted, voted on, signed. Of course that is wishful thinking but still, is it not possible? So, put you’re noggin‘ to work on this and we’ll see what you come up with.

      • Flashy

        Sirian…phasing out Soc Sec brings us back to the early part of the 20th century. Where people, elderly people, starved and went without medical help etc. Bear in mind, there are many who live on SS as a means of a minimal living..and through no fault of their own.

        In theory, a modern society is supposed to be civilized.

      • David Ozanne

        You flashy, because you have no common sense.
        Social Security is retirement insurance and it was promised as an investment to workers so when they got too old to work or be hired, they could enjoy the fruits of their labor. I do not want my premiums back, I want what I was promised when they forced me to pay into it. Just like life insurance, When certain events transpire, it triggers other events. When I reach a certain age, I can draw a return on my life insurance. In another event my wife can draw my life insurance. That is what I pay for and Social Security has benefits promised that I paid for and I want those benefits. The Dumocrats have looted all my benefits and now want me not to be selfish and let them redistribute them to themselves. They would also like to do this to my military retirement pay. FYI my retirement pay is not welfare either.

      • Flashy

        “When I reach a certain age, I can draw a return on my life insurance. In another event my wife can draw my life insurance.”

        Only on certain policies where you paid a premium for that capability. And it’s not a draw…read the fine’s a loan with your policy as security.

      • s c

        Sirian, you’ll have to find a way to ‘excuse’ “f.” He’s sucking a hurricane up through his backside – again. According to the Supreme Court, Soc Sec is NOT insurance in any way, shape or form. There’s NO contractual right involved ['f,' take your "social contract" crap and stick it].
        “F” is either on drugs, or he thinks he can make points with his defective programming. What a piece of work.

      • Flashy

        SC..are you referring to Helvering v. Davis ? Where in dictum the SCOTUS stated it was not a “contributory insurance program” ?

        best read the case then … they did not state it was not an “insurance’ program. Also…in that case, the SCOTUS stated it was allowable under the “general welfare’ clause of the Constitution (I just tossed that tidbit in)

      • Sirian

        Yet isn’t it unusual that the population growth within the new United States of America increased over the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries with no such entitlement program in place? With that being the case, a very well documented fact indeed, then how is it that phasing out SS would lead us back to such perilous times of starvation and elderly people dyeing at phenomenal rates due to limited medical help? The overall increase in our nations population does appear to counter that thought/statement substantially, does it not? So, how could something such as what I proposed to you be so devastating to the up coming generations? Remember – it was projected out fifty years, quite a timely distance is it not? Even at that point it would be reduce by only 50%, not 100%. With that, then you could rightfully say it is a supplement to retirement, not the only retirement available. Was that not the initial basis for SS as so described by FDR? Better yet, how could it be a negative move for people to be reawakened as to the vital role “self responsibility” plays on their lives – young to old. Self responsibility is what one should consider and accept as being non-civilized? SS was another of FDR’s grand achievements. No wonder there are so many elderly that have nothing more than that to live on. The minds of the entire population was spoken to in one well slated sales pitch – and the sale was made. A life time contract sold with no escape clause provided. Is that being civilized Flashy?

        • Phillip Rehmann

          You are so far off track…yet correct in what you said….the nation did grow by leaps and bounds as far as population was concerned……but the reason for that was not due to great medical care and the government takeing care of people or any of the things you speak of…it was due to people haveing huge familes …to counter high mortality rate, to have more hands on farms to raise the crops, or cut the wood for building more homes for the rise in population….now we have mechanization and good health care….we now have a small motality rate, we have less need for less workers due to mechanicalization and computerization…and above all…the loss of…our indutrialization due to manufacturing going abroad for greeds sake……we no longer need large families….my grandparents had a large family…but they lived on a farm…they needed the hands to grow the food they ate, and all the work that went into a farm….to raise crops to sell for the money they needed to buy the suplies they did not make , or grow…..we no longer have that in the U.S…due to the industrial age…so you can’t compare the growth from those eras to the growth needed now…..also at this time…do you have job security now…not at all…at anytime you may loose your income…due to down sizeing, company moveing abroad to lessen their payroll…or to make more money for their stock holders… many people have lost their jobs…only a few years away from retirement and the pensions they would have recieved…if not for the greed of the wealthy and the need to pay stockholders a higher dividend off of the backs of the people who actually work at a physical job…..stop and look at those that have no security from their employer……most states now are what is refered to as …right to work states…..which just means …your employer can fire you on a whim….as long as it is not dicriminatory… call that a good work environment…no need for something to be in place for a safety net for your old age…….working till the day you die…if you are able….is not a pretty thought…or do you consider that for yourself….when should a person be able to enjoy life…or is that just for the rich and powewrful?……and if you think investing is the way to go…..look at all the people who lost their life savings…due to the rich being greedy….did they have the ability to recoup monies lost…..we need a system to take care of people when they are older….one day you will be there…think about how you would want to be treated then….especially if you lost all that you had worked for your whole life…..

    • Mark in LA

      Flashy you are probably right about unemployment but sadly wrong about welfare. What you don’t seem to understand is that every society has been plagued with a section of the population that doesn’t care how they live as long as they don’t have to do anything. In addition, we have scores of immigrants on welfare because they have been declared “refugees”, they won the “diversity lottery”, or their kids brought them here beyond working years. There are millions in the last category alone.

      • Flashy

        Mark, I’m not saying there aren’t any who are comfortable on welfare income. i have advocated the workfare program President Clinton had proposed and implemented temporarily before the GOP Congress killed it by failing to provide funds and renew the program.

        But for the most part, I believe the roles have a high turnover as far as recipients.

  • Chester

    Flashy, I hate to tell you this, but SSI IS means tested. If you have over $790 a month in income, other than food stamps, you can NOT draw it. Social Security, the retirement portion is NOT means tested, and pray to God it never is. Once something is means tested, it becomes, automatically, a welfare program, whether you have paid into it or not. Food stamps, too, are means tested, although the income level to qualify for those is a bit higher than SSI. Still, for a single person to qualify for food stamps, their income has to be under $1200 a month, and they have to have considerable outlay for rent and utilities. For all those of you complaining about how high on the hog you can live off the government, go out and give it a try for a while, then tell me how much you like living below poverty level.

    • Flashy

      thank you. I knew the different programs, my error in not distinguishing them. i intended to state, if you have an income of say…six figures, one should not be drawing Social Security. It is, in it’s basest definition, an insurance program so give minimal income for those who are not in a position in their elder years to have a livable income

      • Libertytrain

        flash your description: It is, in it’s basest definition, an insurance program so give minimal income for those who are not in a position in their elder years to have a livable income

        sounds like welfare – you say everyone has to pay in, yet only some people will get paid the benefits that ALL contributed to …. it’s not an insurance plan – that’s the welfare system alive and well, not Social Security.

      • Flashy

        Liberty…is your car insurance a welfare program? You pay it in case you need it. Do you expeect to be able to demand it all back if you never have an accident?

      • Libertytrain

        Flashy, apples and oranges are not the same thing and neither is car insurance or SS

      • Flashy

        Car insurance is paid for because you might have an accident and unable to afford repairs. Is that not the same for SS? Paid for because you might have an accident and unable to pay for retirement and medical needs?

        How is SS an “investment” and giving a mindset it should be paid back…yet car insurance is not?

      • T i m

        All insurance is created for welfare . Yes Car insurance as well . Just say you are blessed to NEVER NEED FILE A CLAIM . You never need use it . That money pays the insurance company and the welfare population . Your car insurance starts over every month . I have paid enough into car insurance , I could buy a new motorcycle and a new work truck , with a paid receipt for both . SOCIAL SECURITY is the same way . I SHOULD BE A MILLIONARE TODAY with what I have paid into social security . I will never see any social security . This new mechanical insurance advertised on radio and television is the same . If you never file a claim , your contract expires and money goes to junk yard with the car . You car becomes out dated , you will not find insurance . That is why congress changes things to keep us spending money . A new vehicle requires full coverage . An older car does not . Minimum Federal requirement covers medical needs only . For the other driver . Most welfare people do not own insurance . THEY DO NOT CARE . SOCIAL SECURITY WAS CREATED TO TAKE CARE OF THE WELFARE POPULATION . All insurance was created for that purpose . If you never use yours, it goes to welfare .

      • Flashy

        So Tim….are you stating you would not pay for car insurance if it wasn’t required?

        • T i m

          At the risk of making lots of people mad at me , …YES that is exactly what I am saying . 1 st car I ever bought with my money , I did not think about ” INSURANCE ”. I just wanted to help my school buddies tear up the street . Then I watched my dad have to get a ride to work for 6 months , because his car insurance was no good . he had been involved in a wreck , he filed claim for repairs , shop found out his insurance was no good . They were required by law to inform law enforcement . Dad’s license was suspended for 6 months . That was 4 0 years ago . I do not know how it works today , except , someone gets your money if you never file claim . Other than the agent . Insurance agent had embezzled money from lots of cleints , which means the agent kept the money and sent a paid receipt in the mail ,. that caused me to READ THE FINE PRINT ON ALL INSURANCE . Government created a federal law for insurance decades ago to take care of the people with no insurance . Back then it was called un insured motorist . IT DID NOT MATTER WHO’s fault it was . SOCIAL SECURITY WAS CREATED FOR THE WELFARE POPULATION . IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NAME ON THE CHECK RECEIPT . T i m

      • s c

        ‘F,’ this must be your day in the utopian monkey barrel. Look around. You’ll find MANY people who make a lot of money or are worth a LOT of money and they’re drawing Soc Sec. In fact, some elected filth want us to “share” Soc Sec so Mexico can be a part of it. Neat, huh?
        Common sense says wealthy folks don’t need Soc Sec. WHY would a competent, functional government let people pay into such a wasteful system when people who have a lot don’t need Soc Sec?
        LBJ raped every American when he got that damned Great Society crap legislated. Ponzi must have been furious if he was still alive when that Frankenstein ____ got started.

      • Flashy

        Tim….what roads do you travel on because i want top make certain i steer clear of ‘em. There are so many stories about getting nailed by uninsureds i can’t even begin to relate. i’d be surprised if many here admire you’re insistence on not being insured.

        BTW…if you did get into an accident, would you fight the court case against you requiring you to strip your assets so you can pay the damages?

    • ekim

      Should our elected officials ( volunteers who PAID to get in office) deserve HUGE salaries, plush offices, free meals, large staffs ( to do their work for them ), free healthcare and insurance, pensions commensurate to their salary ! C’mon, where do you think we should begin to cut back !
      Our servicemen eat in a mess hall, live in a barracks, are on call 24/7, are expected to toe the line for a very frugal salary. Why not the volunteers in government ?

      • Flashy

        You voted them in.

        Ever notice that the turnover rate in Congress is lower than that of the old Soviet Congress?

        Santorum got outspent a gadzillion -1 in Wisconsin…Romney’s billionaires beat Santorum’s billionaire.

        If you have a GOP incumbent…vote Democrat. Want to bet that would shake ‘em up a tad in DC?

    • Mark in LA

      Sorry Chester but you are not supposed to be comfortable on welfare. You are supposed to want to get off it as soon as possible. That is the problem, there are people who are way too comfortable living on what ever they get and never consider getting off it.

      It used to be shameful to go into the government assistance office. Now people in line brag about they get over on the system.

  • ekim

    I take offense to Rolley linking those elderly on SS, who paid into the system all their life, with PARASITES and FREELOADERS ! These elderly folks took pride in the fact that they were paying into something that was helping those seniors ahead of them at their time of need. There is an obvious difference in them and those who are ruthlessly GAMING the system in whatever manner.
    Rolley should apologize to the elderly American Patriots whom he has done a diservice to in this article !

    • joe seven

      I agree that an apology is due. It will be interesting to see how big these people really are.

    • Ted Crawford

      This site has become, lately little more than a Campaign site for Dr. Paul. It seems that all the correspondants, or rather, commentators is a more appropriate title given the partisan nature of the Articles, are hard core supporters of Dr. Paul!
      They seem perfectly willing to throw anyone under the bus. Last week there was an article by Mr. Meyers that implied that all combat actions since WW II were illegal, unConstitutional actions. By simple extrapolation, any of us who served and took human life as a result are murders! Haven’t been called that in over 42 years!
      This article, again by simple extrapolation, implys that all of us and our foreign counterparts are either victums of ignorance, stupid or simple morons, that is with the exception of all those who in their infinite wisdom, support Dr. Paul!
      It must be just preaching to the choir, I fail to see how one wins converts by demeaning, and insulting them!

      • Phillip Rehmann

        Hey Ted…I’m sorry to hear you say that about being wrong for having done what you were ordered to do by you superior officers…..I am Not calling you a muderer, or that you were wrong for following orders ….as I and my dad were in the military…he served 3 tours in Viet Nam……in the Marine Corps….and I in later time in the Navy, although I never severd in any campaings…..but to extrapilate your thoughts…do make you look stupid and ignorant…why?…..because , under the Consitution, congress is the governing body which is allowed to declare war…not the President…unless the U.S is directly attacked……I do not consider what may dad did was murder…but….that was not a war…it was only a declared police action…do police kill people in their carrying out their duties…sometimes, yes…that does not mean that they murdered anyone…..For the U.S to be a so called peacefull nation….we have stuck our noses into the running of other countries way too much…we are almost always at war with someone or some nation or some religon or someones belief…that is where the problem lies….not in following what lawful orders you may have been giveen…..but to question weither they were really lawful or not, might be the start of something good…..we as Americans do not need to be the police force for the rest of the world….we need to bring ALL of our troups home….onto American soil…..if another country wants us to be there….then let them foot the bill for it…and then…only for the protection against invasion from a force that is trying to occupy their country ……bounderies have been set for along time…and we only need to protect those bounderies….ie…the southern border that allows people to enter the country ..Illegaly…..

      • Bob Livingston

        Dear Ted Crawford,

        You write: “This site has become, lately little more than a Campaign site for Dr. Paul. It seems that all the correspondants, or rather, commentators is a more appropriate title given the partisan nature of the Articles, are hard core supporters of Dr. Paul!” I don’t know if all our contributing authors are “hard core supporters of Dr. Paul” but I certainly am and several others are as well. That’s because I/we believe in liberty and the Constitution. As to “the partisan nature of the Articles” you describe; guilty as charged, and proudly so. We will promote all who value liberty and work to uphold the Constitution and withstand tyranny.

        You write: “They seem perfectly willing to throw anyone under the bus.” I am not sure what you mean. If you are referencing party hacks who only pretend to believe in the Constitution, then yes we are. If someone else, please explain.

        You write: “Mr. Meyers that implied that all combat actions since WW II were illegal, unConstitutional actions.” If Congress did not declare war, the actions were unConstitutional according to Article I, Section 8.

        You write: “By simple extrapolation, any of us who served and took human life as a result are murders!” This is what you say. No contributors to this site have said this.

        You write: “This article, again by simple extrapolation, implys (sic) that all of us and our foreign counterparts are either victums (sic) of ignorance, stupid or simple morons, that is with the exception of all those who in their infinite wisdom, support Dr. Paul!” I’m not sure to whom “all of us” applies. Not all who don’t support Dr. Paul are victims of ignorance (defined by Merriam-Webster as: lack of knowledge, education, or awareness), stupid or simple morons. Some are statists, some are progressives, some are socialists, some are Marxists, some are fascists and some are evil warmongers. There may be other categories that I’ve neglected to mention. But certainly, no one who cherishes liberty, sound monetary policy and the Constitution can honestly oppose Dr. Paul.

        Best wishes,

  • Donald Rees

    I agree with Old Dad. I paid fort my Soc. Sec. and Medicare and the politicans used my money to give it away for the Great Society. What a waste. I am really mad at both parties, all of them are stealing from the working class of this nation.

  • rendarsmith

    OLD DAD,

    What you paid was stolen and spent elsewhere. What you are receiving is MY social security payments that I pay now. I fear by the time I retire (in 40 years) there will be nothing.

  • jimmy the greek

    They better get all the money they can before israle milks america dry .

    • castaway

      Israel is not the problem, and never has been. Our politicians know how to say yes, and no.They know how to control us with the stroke of a pen, and are doing just that as we participate in this forum.

      • jimmy the greek

        Glad you think so , they just asked for 3.1 billion last week for r&d on there missile defence system . it would be cheaper to just supply the persians with nooks and let them and the zionist have a mexican stand off like America and the USSR did and if one of them nukes the other we should nuke the one that wins .

  • Robert Bradfield

    Hi, its that South African again,

    I don’t know if my story is appropriate in this situation but it does illustrate a point.

    It is said that a college Professor wanted to explain communism to his students in terms that they could understand in practise. So he started off by telling his students that in that specific term all students would receive the same marks that the best student would get and indeed with the first test this was the case. A funny thing happend the next test. All the students failed the test, because all the students that did well decided that they will not study so that the others could benefit as they did. The ones that usually failed thought that they will again be carried through on the results of the good students and did not study at all.

    The lesson is that if there is some people that work hard and have to pay for all to benefit that the ones that work will eventually decide that it is not worth while to do so and also join the ones that do not work. That is what nobody in government seems to realise when dishing out money to all that do not contribute to the economy.

    I would also say that I will also stand in line if government decided to dish out money and not look for a paying, even a low paying, job. Why should I?

  • Carol

    Watching videos like that turns my stomach when able bodied men and women acknowledge their lazy a$$es only want “Obama Money’. Obama doesn’t have any money and if he did he wouldn’t be using taxpayer money for his and Thunder Thighs lavish vacations.

    The solution would be to eliminate welfare and food stamps altogether which would force those able bodied people to work or starve. It’s called survival and if a person knew they couldn’t take advantage of the system any longer, you bet they’d get off their lazy rear ends and get a job. I suppose those same people will be wanting more of Obama money when they’re of retirement age, but yet haven’t contributed anything into SS funds. These free handouts have to stop and the rule should be if you don’t contribute, you don’t eat.

    As far as the one black man saying that he’s owed stuff because of his ancestor’s slavery – get a life d@#$ head. Nobody owes you anything and if you had any dignity you’d go back to your home country where your ancestors came from and try to build up your own country instead of trying to destroy America. I am truly beginning to accept the eugenics program every time I see trash laying, walking, or blowing on American streets.

    • castaway

      I like your post Carol, but it is not harsh enough! Us Whites have been too congenial, and caring in the wrong direction for too long, now look what we have. Everything we have worked for is being either destroyed, or taken away, by the minority’s.

    • Phillip Rehmann

      Ms. Carol….while the video did show people that just don’t want to work, there are many of us who do want to that can not find a job……mainly due to corprate manufacturing jobs overseas where they pay 1/4 the salaries as you would here in the U.S. I am 52 years old, have been out of work since Nov. of last year. I was layed off because the restauant I worked in slowed down in sales due to bad economics in my town. We use to have a large number of factories in the area that produced textiles and furniture. They were non-union jobs, so don.t go there. These were factories that have been around for 75 to 100 yrs, and now these same factories are in 3rd world countries and China. The companies did not go out of business, just moved there manufacturing to places that , in American dollars only pay $1 to $2 per hour. I apply to at least 1/2 dozen jobs per week, when there are jobs listed, including minimum wage jobs at places like Taco Bell and McDonalds…..I am told I am over qualified or they are looking for a younger crowd. I have worked in a public job since I was 16 yrs old, starting in 1976, now I can not find a job. So, you think I am lazy and should starve?.,…If it wasn’t for food stamps, I would. I recieve $200 a month for that , which is plenty, but my point is…if it was not for that my spouse and I would go hungry. I want a job, and am looking every day….so you tell me…where is the problem. I say it is in our government that is owned by the wealthy…who only look out for the stock holders, not the average American citizen. I say American citizen, why,…because the owner of the restaurant that layed me off and kept 2 illegal aliens…hispanics, working…..why….he did not have to provide benifits …or pay taxs on them…thus, more money in his pocket. There are so many situations like this across the country….so…what is your solution to these types of problems?…..I do not like takeing food stamps, but what are my alternitives?…..

      • Carol

        No Phillip, I don’t think you should starve because you’re at least trying. Believe me I know how bad the economy is and even in a good economy people still scammed the system. People who refuse to work but are able bodied, lazy bums who think they’re owed something for nothing but give nothing positive back to society should not be given free handouts.

        Welfare and food stamps weren’t meant for people to claim it as a career – it was there to help people until they get back on their feet. But a lot of women intentionally become pregnant when their welfare checks are about to expire so they can continue collecting.

        This country would be so much better off is personal responsibility was a law because I don’t think it’s fair for a working family’s taxes to be raised and food taken out of their children’s mouths to feed blacks, whites, or illegals who refuse to work or work under the table. There’s just so much wrong with that picture, and a lot of the blame has to go to our elected officials who are deliberately trying to crash the system. What’s going to happen to those who are on welfare and the system totally collapses? They’re going to be lost because they have no survival skills.

        I, myself, needed help for a short time after leaving a very abusive marriage. I had no car to find a job, but rode to a hospital with a friend and volunteered at that hospital while I was receiving help. There are so many things one can do to give back instead of lying around on the street waiting for Obama money.

        • Phillip Rehmann

          I agree with what you have said Carol…the system is broken…and needs much help….the ability for the rich to control our govrnment would be my focal point…they have in their quest for more wealth and POWER….have destroyed the American dream….and right now so many people are fighting amongst themselves over the non-issues that the real ones will never be tackeled and fixed….We need to take back our government…we need to get money out of politics…for as long as you can buy votes, favoritism and have the so called special interest groups…the whole of America will continue to fall….Our rights and freedoms are being slowly taken away due to this internal fighting…If you want to stop the need for food stamps and the programs that are simalar…then jobs need to come back to ythe U.S….outsourcing should be eliminated….evryone says the freeloaders need to get a job…how can they when even the people who want to work can’t…I agree we all need to work and suport ourselves and our families… where are the jobs…fix that problem and you will eliminate many of the other problems…fight and comment on those issues instaed of putting the blame on people that maybe abuse a system that was meant to help those in need….there will always be those that look for a free ride….but you can’t fight that till you fix the problem of those looking to take care of themselves…..because it is so easy to put us all in the same group….only because we recieve the same help….

      • Carol

        Phillip, the elite designed it to be broken. Remember Rockefeller’s statement that he doesn’t like competition. Of course he doesn’t because it would take away from the major companies that are owned by the establishment. They do not want jobs in America and every company that has tried to compete with them has gone out of business.

        Our total governmental system is a fraud and nothing will change until people stop voting themselves into slavery by voting for progressive liberals. We need to throw all liberals out of D.C. and start fresh with Republicans in the lead until we establish a system of a third, honest party who will lead this country as it was meant to be – A Constitutional Republic. That might be the only way to save this country if/when we completely eliminate the corrupt Democratic party, and ‘corrupt’ is an understatement.

      • 2¢ worth…

        It’s more than corporate greed Phillip (though that helps) it’s total manipulation of the working force.. They say there isn’t any jobs available yet they work the one’s they do have 10 to 14 hours a day six days a week to give the IMPRESSION that there’s no jobs and because of this farce, commodities skyrocket and you find yourself with a 36¢ dollar. These uppities are the one’s who are igniting either a depression or a recession and we are powerless because they all wear the same clothes we do or hide behind the brazen laws that they create. There’s other problems for sure and I stand with you on your blog but you must include the reason why there are so few jobs. Just in my neighborhood , more than a third works 14/6 while another third are working up to 3 part time jobs (equaling the same amount of time).. If the hours went back to eight then that would create at least a 25% jump (or more) in job openings.. I’m not talking small companys who are just barely surviving but the big corporations that are manipulating this nation.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      I think that we should eliminate giving money (or food stamps) to anyone. I don’t believe that we can let the truly needy starve and I wish it would go back to people and churches helping each other. But if we need to have some sort of government assistance, it should be minimal, in the form of soup kitchens and shelters. As minimal as it can get. When you give these people houses or apartments, food stamps where they can go to the store and make choices about what they’ll eat, they have no incentive to work. Why should they? They may not have as much as some other people but they don’t care. Now, if they had NO money and had NO choices, not even a dollar to buy a candy bar, they might get tired of it and want something more for themselves. I don’t advocate starving grannies but we have got to stop encouraging the freeloaders to sponge off of us. Make their lives miserable so that they’ll want more and be willing to work for it.

  • joe seven

    You STUPID A#S. How can you lump Social Security and Medicare in as welfare? Senior citizens paid into Social Security all of their working lives. The Federal Government has been looting the Social Security trust fund since 1940 and now owes the trust fund more than 3 TRILLION dollars. And then some jerk calls it welfare?

    • ekim

      Joe, I agree that both parties participate in robbing the people but the dems ( through history ) have necessarily done the most damage to the SS system and ” Lock Box “! It was set up to aid the elderly but has since been a place to get funds for everything a congressman/woman could imagine.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      How are we so quick to forget that as soon as any governmental agency comes into existance there are buildings to be built to house them, offices to be equipped, employees to be hired.Multiply this in every state and cities and towns across the country.
      The SS that some of you believe that is owed you is spent on the administration of Social Security.

      • Phillip Rehmann

        Tere are always administrative cost and needs for any kind of government or business….but that is not where the vast majority of money has been spent from SS….and paying back to those that have paid into the system is not the problem either…the problem lies in the government officals who have used the money for other things that were not meant to be funded by SS…ie, starting with the Viet Nam conflict and progressing to all the welfare programs that have been funned useing SS monies…..if all of these funds were to be repaid…SS. would be a solvent system…..this abuse of the funds ….is where the problem lies…..

  • castaway

    Sam Rolley, you and others like you are all [offensive words removed]. How dare you call SS part of a wellfare program, and insult millions of hardworking Americans have paid into SS as well as their employers, (myself) included. Of course its okay if the blacks suck up all the freehandouts, and do nothing to build this country. No I do not want to hear about a very few blacks that have participated in the building of this country. Most of them are doing it strictly for the black community, and to save their own sorry [offensive word removed].

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear castaway,

      Personal attacks on the authors and other posters is a violation of our Terms of Use policy. If you want to disagree with an author, do so civilly. This is not the first post of yours that had to be edited because of language. If you cannot figure a way to improve your vocabulary you will be placed in moderation.

      Best wishes,

      • Honestly

        Mr Livingston…I have often wondered when you were going to speak up and not just to this person. There are many others. I do not understand why you have allowed people to get so ugly and personal on this site. If I did not want some of the information that is good I would not subscribe. Glad to see you stepping in.

      • Hey You

        Yes, Bob, your moderating comment is appreciated. Many blogs just deteriorate into name calling contests. Such does show that there is a great divide amongst viewers. However, the point is that blogs such as PL could be a learning platforms rather than places where prejudices and limited comprehension are displayed.

  • joe seven

    I wrote on comment that did not appear so the truth must have been deleted by your filter. If you are so lacking in knowledge as to equate Social Security with welfare then you should do a little more research. Most senior citizens paid into Social Security all of their working lives. The Federal Government has been looting the trust fund since 1940 and now owes the Social Security trust fund more than 3 TRILLION dollars. You don’t want people to insult you but you certainly insult millions of senior citizens who draw Social Security. Shame on you.

  • doug

    Personal Liberty has always seemed to want more accountability from our government, so do we. Those of us who have paid into the system and now wish to collect are upset. Those who have paid in should collect on what they were promised. Social Security was set up as as a supplimental retirement program.
    If the government has mismanaged SS , what are we in for with Obama Care?
    It almost appears as though articles such as today’s article serve no other purpose than to have citizens fighting citizens, while the government squanders more resources and does their social engineering driving the nation over the brink.

  • tired of the communist government

    I would like to see the working class people be able to invest in their own future. I don’t need the government taking my money and giving it away to sorry people living off the system. Let the working people invest their own money and see the welfare babies live off the government. the government would not have or control the money, then what would the welfare junkies do? I know what type of investment and money I would have and need to survive retirement. That would force these sorry freeloaders to get a job to survive. Take the money out of the government hands and see what would happen. No work, no eat.

  • Dens

    I was forced to pay FICA or Social Security taxes for decades. Whatever I paid, my employers were forced to match. This amounted to about 15% of my income. There was no other choice available. If you worked, you paid. These taxes were explained as funding for assisting you and others when you could no longer work due to disability or old age.

    I planned all along to get some of that money back when I retired. Because I worked and paid into the kitty, I do not view myself as being a parasite or on welfare when I get my little piece of the action back each month. It’s not much but I got mine the hard way.

    • 45caliber


      SS was touted by the government as a replacement for retirement since many people couldn’t afford to save for retirement due to family constraints. Pay SS and you didn’t need to save for retirement. I once figured that if I could get a 5% interest rate on that money in a bank (and at the time you could still get paid 5% on savings) over 45 years you could have over a million dollars in your account. The interest at the same 5% meant that you’d draw over $50,000 a year which was VERY good pay thirty years ago. And you’d never touch the principal which could go to your children.

      Well, officially the SS fund was to go into a savings account like that. Unfortunately, when it starts piling up, all the politicians begin to see it as a wonderful way to buy more votes. So they kept using it. Finally they simply started insisting that it was never really meant as a retirement after all, and besides, it isn’t a savings account with interest. But you still can’t take that same money and put it into a savings account.

  • Priscilla King

    Attention defensive White readers: Although this wasn’t the case when I was in Washington, it’s true in my home town that every single welfare cheat I know is White.

    Re Social Security: Do the math if you want to know how this unsustainable system is working out for any individual retiree. If Old Dad is currently what I’d call old (over 70), and if he retired at 62, he’s probably run through what he paid in and started drawing out what was paid in by someone who died at 54. The system relies on there always being more working people than retired people. Unless we completely reverse the intention of Social Security and start killing off retirees, that just can’t be expected to last.

    People who are currently in our forties have traditionally had to support our own personal parents, financially, and as much as some of us might like to be able to do more for our parents than Social Security does, we’re not earning that kind of money. I don’t expect Social Security ever to benefit me; I wouldn’t mind being able to pay into it on my mother’s behalf. But I can’t. (Is anyone feeling munificent? Read and support my blog.)

    • Honestly

      Priscilla King…Did I misunderstand or are you trying to make this a race issue?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        You read her correctly. She is making this a race issue.

        • Honestly

          What a shame…

  • Don Sanborn

    Well there a lot that have no outher way to live. Drug testing has put a lot there. If you smoke pot it stays with you for long time. You do coke or meth or other hard drugs there gone in tree days. You smoke pot it stays with you for weeks or longer. I have worked all my life. Never could aford insurance. I broke a hand set it my self. Broke a toe lived with it much more. But now my body is giveing out I cant get help. It makes me sick I payed all that money in but cant get help my self. Its a joke well if I could change my skin colar it would make it lot easyer. We need to start a work program for every one on gov help. Make them pick trash up sit in room for hours or other things make them do someting for what there getting

    • mark

      Right on sanborn!

    • 45caliber


      Your comments on how long drugs stay with you are not comletely correct. A simple urine sample will not show the drugs after several days. Blood samples and hair samples will show drug usage for months. And all the places I know that test for drugs use hair samples now.

  • 45caliber

    “Government payouts — including Social Security, Medicare and unemployment checks — account for more than one-third of total wages and salaries in the United States.”

    Now add in the number of people who work for the government. All levels of government such as federal, state, county, cities, schools, etc.

    Consider those left who are working private jobs. And then realize that those working the private jobs are paying for ALL those being paid by the government. Its a wonder that they have anything left to pay for their own things.

    I heard once (don’t know if it was true then or now) that in Sweden due to their socialist government the average workers retain about 5% of their income for their own use. The rest is taxes. Are you ready for that here? We are already paying over 50% of all our pay as taxes. (The government estimates are generally for federal taxes only.) One Congressman not long ago wanted a 5% tax increase. He was annoyed that the voters didn’t want it. He stated that in other countries, people paid up to 95% taxes so we shouldn’t object to ONLY a 5% increase here. What he fails to realize is that we DON’T WANT TO END UP LIKE THOSE WHO PAY 95% IN TAXES!

  • mark

    Remember when obama was running for president one of the things he ran on was the redistribution of wealth in this country. He gave us all fare warning of what was going to happen. Everybody said the president really doesnt have any power therefore it will be all right for him to be elected. I suppose some white people thought it would give them an excuse to stop feeling guilty for someting our ancestors did to the blacks ancestors way way back when. So there it is we have the first black president who has a lot of citizens backing him and the things he said while he was running for president happening. The suck of it is a president who actually does what he says. And there it is . Hope and change. DOWN WITH OBAMA

  • Ethel

    To fix the welfare problem is simple. Those who are receiving benefits, who aren’t fraudulently receiving them or disabled to where they can’t do work at all. Should just be given jobs to makeup for the benefits they are receiving. There are a lot of jobs that can be done by these individuals. Help at the schools as assistants, pick up trash in the communities, tutor others for those who have specific skill sets, several jobs based on the persons skills and talents. It’s a win win situation. They continue to receive their benefits and in exchange they work a 36 to 40 hr week doing jobs that are obviously needed in society, that fit their skill sets. They can feel pride in working for their benefits, and needed work is getting done. It can be done! Subsidies and tax breaks are other forms of welfare, no matter how you try to dress it up and make it sound. We are all on the govt. dime one way or another. One is no better than the other. We can do this together.

    • 45caliber


      Back many years ago, it was legal for any political entity (like a city) to take themselves out of the welfare system IF they could show they were taking care of those people welfare would otherwise have helped.

      One city in Maryland did. It simply hired everyone who was on welfare. Those who had small children and no way to care for them were paid to take care of them. Those who could work were hired and put to work picking up paper for the city.

      In six months time, there were only two remaining on the city payroll. Both cared for children. The rest, realizing they had to work, had found found a better paying job.

      The city then passed along the information to other cities. The Dept. of Welfare grew concerned. They realized if the cities all did this, their own jobs were in jepardy. So they filed a suit in court that stated that forcing a person to work to live was a form of slavery. A federal court therefore ruled that it was indeed slavery and that everyone had the right to draw welfare and refuse to work.

      Your tax dollars at work.

    • David Ozanne

      Too logical and effective. Dumocrats would never allow it.

      • Honestly

        David Ozanne…How true

  • Dark_Archer


    WE THE PEOPLE Demand a Full Scale Investigation into the Eligibility Requirements of Obama to be President and to run again for a second term. please go to the link and sign the petition then ask everyone you know to do the same ,

    lets help obama ,biden,pelosi,reid and the rest of the house and senate democrats who are TRAITORS of our Republic and Constitution find new jobs ..preferably making little rocks out of big rocks !!!!

  • Gary Duggins

    I recent the idea that Social Security and Medicare are welfare or a Ponzi scam, other than what the government has caused. I worked for over 40 years paying in about 15% (including my employers part which I was also my employer for many of those years) plus over 2.5% toward medicare and now have to pay a monthly premium on top of that. Just on the Social Security part if the government had paid me the approximately 5% interest that bonds paid during that period I would have over $875,000.+ dollars in my Social Security account for retirement and at the current rate of pay I would have to live past 150 years old to draw it down if they didn’t continue to pay interest once I started drawing. Now you explain to me how social Security and Medicare are government welfare programs, that is unless what you meant was that the government is the welfare recipient.

    • 45caliber


      It is a government welfare system if you work for the government and have your own seperate retirement. After all, welfare money could be better spent on something that benefits them. Such as using that money to buy more votes from Welfare recipients.

  • Phillip Rehmann

    So there Thirty something…you think the money that you are paying into the system won’t also be spent for things that it is not intended for…do you have any control over that money that is taken out of your check each week….do you condone the theivery that has been done to Old Dad and the millions more…whose money was spent illegally…..Old Dad has every right to recieve his monies and so do I…..if you put your money into a system voluntarily and then it was spent in a way that you did not agree with…would you not cry wolf and want to and try to …get your money back….the government took our money…and there was nothing we could do about it…now you think you can do something about the money being taken from you…but it’s not ok for us…the older generation to do something….quit hipocrital wouldn’t you say….you are crying about where your money is going…same as Old Dad…and Myself….so what’s the difference….We were not allowed a say when the government decided to use our money…for a war …that was never declared….and all that followed….if the money that was taken out of the SS fund and never repaid…had been repaid instead of an IOU sitting in the coffers….SS would have plenty of money for Old Dad, Myself…and You when we all retire….that’s where the problem liesd…the government spent the money…now it is gone…with no way to repay it….get the truth abouth the facts and lean…just don’t cry wolf….you are helping no one…including yourself….you are only creating a fight amongst the people….so you won’t see the government for what they are….THEIVES…..and also LIERS….get a grip dude and understand the situation before you open your mouth

    • Thirty-Something

      Instead of name-calling, let’s please try to be civil. To respond… I am confused by your comment as I think we agree in principle. My issue is with Old Dad’s (and I assume your) desire to have the SS money that he put in back. I would agree with you if the SS Trust Fund was still full with that money…but it’s no longer there. It’s spent and replaced with worthless IOUs. The money SS recipients are receiving now come straight from the current folks putting in to it with their SS taxes. So where is my SS money? It’s gone too. I do not ever expect to ever see it again nor will I ever ask for that money back. Because I know any money I get back will just be taken from someone else and I don’t want to rob anyone of their hard-earned money, just as I hope you don’t want to take from me. But demanding SS payments is doing just that…robbing the current SS taxed folks to pay for you.

      I feel bad that you and Old Dad expected to get your money back and now can’t. But when you take money back now, it is not your money you’re taking back…it is someone else’s money. I don’t want to TAKE anyone else’s money. I want to KEEP my own money. And I mostly want to keep my own money because I know the vast majority of is spent on things I do not and cannot take advantage of. Plus I believe that everyone should pay for their own.

      Now while I don’t want to pay the level of taxes that I currently do, i will never be so bold to say I should get that money back if it’s spent (what it is spent on is irrelevant, but the fact that it is spent means it is gone). So what I am proposing is to get gov’t to stop TAKING our money NOW instead of trying to get back money that is already gone. To do the latter would be to perpetuate the Ponzi Scheme that is the SS system. Please explain to me why you disagree with this.

      • T i m

        I will help with the explaination for why I want all my money back . 5 0 years ago , if you were a theif , you went to jail , when you get caught . BECAUSE SOCIAL SECURITY WAS NEVER INTENDED TO LIVE ON , I want the government to ” RE DEFINE ” SOCIAL SECURITY . CAL IT WHAT IT IS . ENTITLEMENTS IS THE SUGAR COATED DEFINITION OF WELFARE . My father paid in to S S for 4 0 years …ALL HIS MONEY GONE TO WELFARE POPULATION . Myself , I will never retire because everything I have paid in is gone . I do not want someone elses money . If I had know then , what I know today …I WOULD NEVER HAVE PAID A DIME IN TO THE SYSTEM . Today , my money is in my pocket . We people must find a way to require congress to pay back the past generaltion . Congress finds money for anything they want . SOCIAL SECURITY SHOULD BE TOP OF THEIR LIST . Social security has been used to pay welfare from the beginning . T i m

        • norepsordems

          So close….but yet…so far away… are right Tim…when you say SS hase been used to pay for welfare….except your timeline is off…..SS started in the mid 30′s before there was welfare……not untill the mid 60′s did the majority of missappropreateing the money started….SS was a solvent institute untill the mid 80′s….by that time…enough money had been taken from the SS coffers that the decline of its solvency begain its downward spiral… was meant…in the …as a safety net,,,,insurance …thats how it was set up……you pay in…the money is saved and out into an account…for you…ie…your SS number…that is your account….these monies taken from you were to be invested…in bonds that could not …loose money…as in regular stocks that are traded that rise and fall….these monies were put in treasury bonds…..which have payed out annualy…a minimum of 5,28 % since the 30′s…..and when you reached retirement age…this money would be returnedvia your monthly SS check… please……quit saying it was set up for welfare…it was not….but ….that is where much of the money has been and is going

          • Robert Bradfield

            Hi its that South African again,

            I have been studying all the comments about your social security scheme. Please correct me if I am wrong. As I understand it this is and was nothing other than a government retirement plan – you and your employer each paid 7,5% of your monthly or annual salary into this retirement plan and after say 65 year of age you will be sure of a pension that government pays you as part of Social Security.

            In effect this is the same as paying money into a retirement annuity but government manages the funds to ensure a pension. If my understanding is correct then you all have a case to take your government to court because it seems that they were not good custodians of your money, so a class action against the current government should not be over looked. In South Africa we do not have such a scheme but we do get a tax break if we invest in company retirement funds and in retirement annuities which is great, the only problem is that we get taxed when these pensions pay out after retirement.

          • norepsordems

            yes Robert …you are basicaly correct in what you think SS is all about…..unfortunetly ..the part aboyt a class action suit can not take place…..the problem lies in that …along the way….with the power that the different branchs of government has…they got together and changed how the money was to be used….in what would be considered….the problem arises from the fact that they were not forthcomming in what they had done…..and used lies and deception to keep what they had done from the general public……as it stands now…they have overused the money for other things…not what was set forth to begin with….as a result of this missuse and deception…the SS coffers are no longer solvent to pay out what is owed….thus all the new hulabalue, lies and deception in an attempt to lay and place blame else where…..and as usual…enough blatent lies from media….the vast majority of younger people do not understand what the truth really is….and they are fighting the masses of older people…thus creating more miss information being spread…..all the while….government and big business , and the rich eleit….are bringing our country closer to ruin….thus helping in the takeover of what is refered to as the New World Order

          • T i m

            You are so wrong . All the politicians have declared , there is a simple solution to TO AMERICAN ECONOMY . Every one is making everything so complicated . I am supporting RON PAUL because he has decribed everything I want to hear . Including SOCIAL SECURITY .

          • norepsordems

            Wow T I M……you said so much…I am soooo wrong…..and you are so dumb…..back your statement up…if I am wrong….explain how…..if you have the intelligence and vocabulary to……but just to let you know…..out of all the crooks and liers running for president this year….Ron Paul would be a decent choice…..probably the least of all the evils on the campaing trail……

          • T i m

            Obviously , I was not around in the 4 0 ‘s to know what happenend . I was around in the 6 0 ‘s , to listen to my grandfather , who WAS here in the 2 0 ‘s . Grandfather used to tell my father , YOU GOT TO WATCH , and PRAY GOD does not let satan let these crooks take everything we have built . Grandfather knew what was about to happen . WELFARE HAS BEEN PAID FROM SOCIAL SECURITY FROM THE BEGINNING . My grandfather said that , not me . SOCIAL SECURITY WAS NEVER INTENDED FOR SENIORS TO LIVE ON . IT WAS ALWAYS INTENDED FOR WELFARE . It may not have been called welfare in that day . EVEN SO . My father died from cancer shortly after retirement . WHERE DID ALL HIS MONEY GO , after 4 0 year career . WELFARE .My name is T i m

          • norepsordems

            Tim…to start with….stop trying to get your point across by yelling….caps …as much as you use them are foolish….I am going out on a limb here and assume you are on a computer and useing the internet…if not…you need to go where you can…..because you were not around when SS was started, in no way should be a reason not to know what and how and why it was put into place …or to learn when and how it started being abused and missused……sorry to disagree with your grandfather since he is not around to reply…..he may have had a feeling that SS might be missused…..but that did not occure till in the 60′s….we had no welfare plan untill then…and at that time it was nothing to compare with what is in place now….it began like many government agencies…small…..but when the politicians start something…..keeping it small is just not possible for their idiot minds to conceive or do…..with that said….your next point….where did all his money go…..are you really that shallow T I M as to not understand that?……not everyone lives long enough to collect all that may have been paid in….while others may live longer and receive more than their share….as is with any insurance….not all people collect all the money they ever pay in….comprehend?????…….plus…….as you have said…and are correct about…it has gone for many other things…..starting with LBJ in the 60′s to help finance the police action that we as Americans were involved in….in Viet Nam….and then of course…to pay for various welfare programs……but please understand…..when in 1935 SS began…that was not the intended purpose……get on-line and do some reaserch……before you continue with your blah,blah,blah…..usa,gov is a site that you can go to and actually read the original documents of the SS bill….and from there you can also see all the changes over the years that have been made to the original document……just like the original U.S. Constitution has changed with what are refered to as….listen now….Amendments……now go do some reading and come back and comment when you understand a bit more than what your family and friends have told you… be the gospel….since of course you brought god into all this…………………..

          • T i m

            SIR, YOUR ARE MISINFORMED ABOUT SOME THINGS . The caps is because I am frustrated , and I continueing reading peoples thoughts which are so completely wrong . I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE MY FATHERS MONEY WENT . . Now you do some math. people blame military and other things for where congress sends welfare money . There are probably 1 0 0 times more people on welfare per 1 person in the military . A person on welfare gets around 1 0 0 0 ., maybe 2 0 0 0 . , maybe 3 0 0 0. dollars per month , depending on their proven entitlement . Our troops do not get near that , except for the top brass NCO , and officer Corps. I do not think a welfare person needs to get my fathers money . MY FATHERS MONEY SHOULD STAY IN MY FATHERS FAMILY . T i m

      • norepsordems

        Let’s try this again…I was responding once….hit the backspace key and all was lost….so if you receive kinda of a duplicate…apologies…..and to start…I went back and read your post to old man again, then my post to you and again yours to me…so that being said….name calling …unless you think saying you were a hipocate was name calling…which is only what I think of your words posted….no name calling was involved…so that being said…civility is of the up-most…except when I deal with those that straight up lie or missrepresent things…cause on this site….wow…alot of crap comes out of the minds of people here……from racism to facism to communisim….and many levels inbetween……to me…I guess we have simular thoughts, almost the same page, but at the same time, worlds apart….to start wih…your statement that SS is a ponzi scheem is so far off it is only a laughable thought to me….ponzi scheem…is just that…a scheem , by nature and design, to seperate honest people from their money and give it to the crook….in no way was that, has that been the case with SS… was set up as a saftey net via an insurance program….thus , all monies recieved into SS were invested in bonds that were safe, gains at a slow rate, but….always at an average of 5,28% or better….the problem with SS started when monies were removed, never returned, for use, other than SS…ie…welfare, wars, police actions……this was wrong…….now you say to old man….what gives you the right to demand his return, on his money, that was taken from him…by the government, with the promise that this was for his welfare and good….yet on the flip side you make the demands that your money not be spent to take care of him….weither it is his money, or your money that is being spent incorrectly….you both want the same thing…..your money…spent for what you are told it is being taken for….the difference is…his time has run out…you still have thirty-something yrs to be in his shoes….just because you feel you won’t see your money…you think he should roll over and accept him not getting his money….I say…you are wrong…..why….well…to start with…up untill recently, the government was able to cover the lies told to the average man about more….kinda like the lies I am sure have been told to you, to get you to believe that SS is a ponzi scheem….I doubt you came to that conclusion on your own, but by listening to others….I can not speak for old man…but I can for myself…I have done what I can… speak out against the corrupt government WE have….another one of those things that made me disaprove of what you said…and I qoute…”your government”….well, you are a tax paying citizen aren’t you?????…if so, you should have said…OUR GOVERNMENT……by how you said your government…you implied that it was only the fault of the government that has been in charge during his taxation….but, really….I agree that the impropper use started in the mid 60′s…before you were even born…but….even since you were of the age to vote…politicans have still been raiding the SS coffers for use other than what it was meant for….so in essence….your govenment too…..see bud…we are all in this together..but guess what…and hears the iceing on the cake thatreally got me to respond to you… admitted that your money was being taken from you, against what you felt was right…but you would never be so bold as to ask for it back….yet…you are bold enough to crtisize a person…who has had the same atrocities commited against him, by the same people or institution…ie..government…that you have…..instead of speaking up against the government that has done you wrong for what…15 odd yrs since you started working….and has done old man and myself…..who has been paying in for 21/2 times as long as you……we haven’t commited those acts against you…have we….we are only speaking out…to get what we were promised….nothing against you, but the people and government that has lied to and decieved us all our lives…up untill recently when this was all exsposed… my dear sir are falling into the exact place where they….government,big business, large corporations and the billionares that are in control….want you to be…..fighting with people who have done you no harm….while they continue to rape and pilage the masses……instead of commenting to…and about a person whi has done you no wrong…why don’t you try and fight against those that are at fault and to blame……WE the people need to present a strong front in order to take action to make this a good and strong nation again…….if you were to fight for SS reform in a way that would make it solvent again….you would be able to get back all those monies that have been and will be taken from you…….but in the meantime….old man and myself just want what was promised and due us….I truly hope you understand, comprehend and accept the things I have said….with no malicous words intended….I am neither a Rep. or a Dem…as that is where I feel a vast amount of the problem lies……both sides have some good ideas….but unfortunately…the extremist on both sides pretty much devalue either party in my oppinon….why don’t you look at the government records that actualy showwhen, mid 30′s, SS was started….what and how the original intent it was suppose to be used…….maybe the light may come on and you will agree…..the little guy, the retiree…ya know…average joe …we are not the problem….but the big government that you said you would not be so bold as to say something to…is the problem……the only way we have to make change…is in what we say….who we say it to….and what we belive….and the main way the averge joe can do that is with your vote….hell. their are people on this site that want to take that right…as an American citizen, away from you if you are poor…I was even told by one person here…and then later he denied it…that I…along with the average poor person …was ignorant….and because of that reasoning…I should not be allowed to vote……so I guess my last thought would be…..choose wisely where you put you efforts, fights and words….to try and make what is wrong….right……please feel free to respond back….any and all……………..

  • unabashedprogressive

    You truly consider Social Security to be welfare? How sad. I, like many others have paid into the Social Security system, along with employers I have worked for, and when I was an employer, I paid into on behalf of my employees, who worked hard for me and helped me earn my living.

    Medicare? welfare? Is it more cost-effective to have well-treated citizens, mostly elderly, or a bunch of permanent residents of the Emergency rooms of America, getting treated on your and my dime?

    As for true welfare, my understanding was that it was supposed to be a hand up, and was never meant to be a permanent hand out. That, I agree, urgently needs some looking into and lots of repair. But whether it be a borrow and pay back, like a student loan, or a system of, you collect, you do community service, certainly needs to be addressed.

    I agree that lazy people did not build this nation. But sickly & homeless people do indeed drag us all down.

    • Hey You

      Yes, Una, you write of some valid observations. Seems that your implications are that we need to depend upon the system that has provided the present problems can (should) address solutions.

      Not only has the present system brought us problems on our streets but has also brought wars and desolations (remember “weapons of mass destruction”, the “Tonkin Gulf attack”, etc!?). Also, it has promoted cruel “Ponzi” schemes. The list could go on and on. Seems that the real enemy is in the government. The country is so full of unintended consequences that even if the government sincerely tried to help, there would be ample collateral damages to spread around.

  • H

    I’m very sad to say that my dad is one those people who has lived off the govt for the pasted 28 years. At first he really did hurt his back but after he healed he still contuine to get disability. When my mom pasted away from pretty much working her self to death to provide for us. He then got SS for me and my bro until we both turned 18. While Im thankful for everyone who pretty much paid for us to live. I must say to this day I have never looked at my dad as man. The last time we spoke he was telling me how he was struggling and he thought the govt should still be paying him. My bro who is 25 this year has never left home and lives off my dad oh and never has driven a car before or gotten his DL. My dad actually told me though that why would I get job when I’m getting 1500 to almost 2500 a month from the govt. You know what I told him because they have power to cut you off at anytime and at least if you have job skills no one can take that away, heck if you work hard you can make sure you almost never lose your job. I on the other hand I have had a job since I was 15 until I got married and we had our little girl, I stay home with her. She goes to school this year and I’m going back to work. I would work three job liked I have before in highschool before I ever asked for anything from the govt. To this day my dad choices still make me look at him wish he was more of a man! Granted he is a Vietnam vet and a good person but I would have looked up to him so much more had work even at a McDonald’s!

    • 45caliber


      I agree and hope you do well. I had a cousin tell me one time, “Why do you work? You have to do what your boss tells you five days a week. I can go fishing whenever I want thanks to welfare and you pay for it!”

      I had a nice brick home and supported my wife and three kids. He lived in a shack, worked on his broken-down car half the time to keep it running, and ending up being burned to death in the house when he tried to rewire it himself.

  • http://Yahoo Philip

    When we start getting all up and hot on this great subject of welfare and entitlement programs, I have one thing to say. And it is based on reality, not fiction.
    We are in a nation that is ever fastly becoming a mutiny which is run by BIG BUSINESS and BIG GOVERNMENT secretly working together, and we all know that this is a fact. People just don’t talk about it because either they’re afraid to, or don’t care, or are afraid they might be part of it themselves.
    With the fantastic unprecedented disappearance of jobs, IT IS NO WONDER THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE LIVING ON WELFARE AND FOOD STAMPS!!!! GET REAL!!!! And I am darn sick and tired of all these SIMPLE MINDED right wingers carrying on with their singalong about LAZY FOLKS WHO DONT WANT TO WORK! The rich dont work any harder than them! Time for some republicans to get their asses kicked because thay are full of —t! That is all the simple voice of GREED and when judgement day comes along for all those that “hated to pay their taxes” simply because they didn’t want to help those in need, guess where God will tell them to go! Oh,,,,,that’s right………”God doesn’t exist!” Well certainly not in the hearts of them greedy S.O.B.’s, and also will not exist in their after-lives after! If there was a way we could send them all to hell today, we might actually have blessed America!
    I don’t ever want to hear another complaint about entitlement programs ever again! Where the f— are the jobs?!?! Just as those “Scott Walker” “Koch brother” scammers and Ruch Limbaugh said to all those fire fighters, police, teachers and public workers,……………”Shut up and roll up your sleeves and go to work!” (Unbelievable statement to those in the line of fire who are asking for a fair wage!) in turn I will tell all you goddamn right wingers “SHUT UP AND PAY YOUR TAXES!!!!”
    Very angry and willing to see SOCIALIZM and a BLOODY WAR!!!

  • Phillip Rehmann

    Carol…I am neither a Dem. or a Rep….but I do agree and disagree with your statement….the 2 party system is broken….BUT…Rep. have passed the laws that have allowed for the takeover by the rich….they have given them tax loop holes, and subsides and the such…and are just as much to blame for the economy as are the Dems…..if they nwould stop fighting to get what their agenda is, put into place…and look to an agenda that would seve well, the American citizen…then we are doomed….Both the Rep. and Dems. have good in them…but there are ones…in both parties that go to the extrem…these are the ones who need not be in office…..and the only way for this to work is to take money out of politics……if you haven’t noticed….it is money that buys the seat in politics…not your views and values….and we as Americans keep fighting among ourselves because of…so called political views…..just like you said…get a Rep. in office…why?…they are just as crooked as Dems…..there in lies the problem…..think about that…..we need big business out of government…and we need government out of individuals lives……how do we do that without fighting about who is better…Dems. or Rep…..??????

    • http://Yahoo Philip

      You are absolutely right! As I so red and over angrilly shouted out a few comments ago, it is money that is playing the whole role in todays politics and not our input or values at all. Yep, again, they are getting payed to do the evil that they do, “when moey talks, bull—- walks.
      If you ever go to Washington, bring a shovel and a wheel barrow and have your boots on! Got to have some fun with this all.

      • Phillip Rehmann

        I still do not understand why you feel a Rep. is better suited to run…..or ruin or economy and way of life….we are almost on the same page….how do we get closer to form an effective front to fight the injustices that are splkayed upon us?

  • http://Yahoo Philip

    I don’t like to sound so overblown and I hope I haven’t offended anyone. But I plead for everyone to take a real good look. Those that were born into wealthy families and those that are hedged in with much financial security have absolutely no idea what we go through and add to that, they truly dont give a damn and they wish we would just disappear. There is absolutely no heart for the poor in this country. Our nation has the greediest society in the world, by a longshot. Apes and gorrillas have more humane nature than us humans have and the poor and unemployed here on our soil get treated like sh– and get called lazy and get kicked and told “get a job!” Hay ass—-, there are no goddamn jobs so it is time to take from the rich and give to the poor or there will be uprisals just like everywhere else in the world. Greed and arrogance and selfishness has led to war, anger, and outbreaks in all history and now I show out my share of outrage. Please dont blame me for thinking that it is time for socialism. Look, automation and private ownership had taken the playing field away from us far worse than recessions and jobs going to China has. We need to socialise, sadly enough, capitolism has been swallowed up by oversized ownership.

  • http://None Mike C

    For anyone who likes to break down numbers…

    A 2008 Study revealed:
    * The top 10% of earners pay 70% of the Federal Taxes
    * The bottom 50% of earners paid only 3% of Taxes

    How does that money get spent? Let’s use the 2010 Obama budget as an example:
    Medicare/Medicaid = $743 Billion
    Welfare Unemployment = $571 Billion
    Social Security = $695 Billion
    DoD/Wars = $663 Billion
    Agencies/Misc/Interest on Debt = $879 Billion

    • http://Yahoo Philip

      If you look at how much the top 10 percent make versus what the bottom 50 percent make and then also look at how physical and hard the bottom 50 percent work versus how hard the top 10 percent work, I think the top 10 percent should pay 125 percent of the taxes. Then think about all the loop holes and what we hear versus what really goes on. It is really high time for the working class to finally have a fair struggling chance to fight and survive. This is a slave nation.

      • 45caliber

        I’ve worked both from a labor side and an educated side. I am NOT rich even by Oblama’s standards.

        However, it cost me time and money to go to college to get a degree (in engineering). I make decisions daily that cost millions of dollars for the company I work for. Those decisions are what helps make the company money – and it makes the company a LOT more money than a laborer’s work does. Why should I not be paid more than the laborer?

        Further, because it is far easier to get laborers with no education (just check out the lines of uneducated illegal aliens wanting a job) than it is someone with a college degree and years of experience. Again, why shouldn’t I be paid more than they are paid?

        Where is the incinitive for some youth to go to college, spending thousands of dollars – usually due to a loan that must be repaid – if he knows that he will get the same or less money than someone who simply applies for a labor job. How is he going to pay that loan that the laborer doesn’t need to pay?

        I think your socialist pettycoat is showing.

      • 45caliber

        Actually the working class is doing okay for the most part in our country. It’s the illegals who are willing to work for less and the welfare recipients that want more money from someone else that are the ones pushing your argument. Tell me, are you on Welfare, Philip??

      • http://None Mike C

        Philip. What part of “the top 10% pay 70%” don’t you understand???

        You want the rich to pay even more? You act like they are rich because they won money. Please note- they EARNED their money. Why do you feel entitled to those earnings? What have you done to earn that money? You would steal it? Under the banner of what do you commit this theft?

        Let me tell what you are entitled to: Fresh air, water, and food are plentiful. You have a body and the capability for rational thought with that poorly exercised brains f yours. I suggest you use it more effectively becasue begging is pathetic.

  • http://Yahoo Philip

    All us laborers and unemployed must get up and get together and go forth in numbers, sort of like “Ocuppy Wall street movement” and then we may get something done. It is time we all repent and get right with God and pray and then move. The legislation which helped give the economy all to the rich and the ownerships wont suddenly just turn around and start turning the economy back toward our side of the playing field. These guys in D.C. are being payed off by the rich to do the evil thatthey are doing. Only we can make the change. It has started in the petition to recall Wisconsin governer Scott Walker for his union busting efforts. We all ought to join in with AFL-CIO and we all need to keep pressuring our Senators and Representatives in Washington (especially republicans) to extend U.I. benafits and raise wages, give more rights to the workers and less to the employers, for real. And Wall street as we know it, has gone out of control. Dont pass the “JOBS ACT” , that would deregulate wall street! Instead pass the “Invest In America Act”, that is more like what we need.
    Working class folks, especially those that don’t hate some of their taxes helping the needy, ( not lazy) it is high time to get out and pressure the poliiticians and vote them out, and do anything we can in numbers. United we stand. Divided we fall. Onlythe rich and powerful want us to fall.

    • Teryll Baker

      How dare you pretend to be a Chistian. Hypocrite!!

  • walt inseattle

    One nation, under a mandate of payouts to shareholders, with K Street and donations for whomever…

    amen (not)

  • Teryll Baker

    A lot of smart people in some of these letters are right, the Oil Companies are not getting Subsidies; that is an Obama lie. It sounds good as a talking point to his stupid worshipers. What O’dufus calls Subsidies are actually Tax Write Offs for equipment depreciation, just like every other American Company gets.
    The reason Oil Companies have high income levels is because they sell a lot of a very expensive product (priced by speculators & the fact that Obama wont let them drill on Government land) supply & demand! The Profit Margin for Oil Companies is actually very low, compared to other U.S. Industries, which are much higher. By the way if you have a 401k, or other retirement portfolio, most likely you have an Oil Company in it making you retirement money!
    Back to the subject at hand. There is a very good article called “America’s Obituary – Very Interesting- Very Scary”, check it out! In part it states that every Democracy in history lasts about 200 years, then it collapses & becomes a Dictatorship, we are there! There are 9 phases these Democratic Civilizations went through. We are in the last Phases. We just went from the Apathy Phase to the Dependence Phase and now we are going from the Dependence Phase into Bondage. Our only hope is that we were founded as a Republic not a Democracy and maybe we have enough Republic Patriots to fight off the Communist/Socialist Onslaught of Obama!!

  • boyscout

    Gee, does my Restless beg syndrome qualify me to not contribute and collect anyway ?

    • Honestly

      boyscout…that may be cute to you or maybe you are being sarcastic, but my mother suffered for years with severe restless legs and it eventually contributed to her death due to the medication, etc. I will say she never claimed disability just her SS when she turned 62. There was no way she could have worked during those times.

  • Huey Mitchell

    Perhaps you should be a little more carefull when you write an article about Welfare and not talk about Social Security, Medicare and Unemployment Benefits. I’m sure you know that these are not free benefits given to us, but are Benefits that we paid for just like Insurance(Health and Life) and Annuities. If you don’t know this, educate yourself. If you do know the difference, then you are no better than Politicians and Bureaucrats you decry for misleading your constituants. SHAME>

    • T i m

      My name is T i m , you need to be more informed , before you declare the article is wrong . Mr . Rolley is right on trak . WELFARE HAS BEEN PAID FROM SOCIAL SECURITY , ..From the beginning . Where did all my fathers money go , after he died . 4 0 year career . All his money gone …Do you know where his money is .

  • mark

    Anybody on here who voted for obama should be very ashamed of them selves and quuite frankly get serious help for the suicide you must be considering.

  • Andre

    The idiot who wrote the article above needs to realize that social security unlike welfare, food stamps, section 8, & public housing is taken out of working peoples’ paychecks. Someone explain to me why I shouldn’t be entitled to a program like social security when I retire why I’m paying into it right now by having it deducted from my paycheck every week. On the other hand, the other programs I named above are a different story.

    • T i m

      My name is T i m . BRAVO Mr. Rolley . Right on . Glad some one finally stood up to tell the truth .Evey one must stop sugar coating entitlement s . CALL IT WHAT IT IS . Every penny of deductions on every recorded wage earners check ENDS UP IN WELFARE / SOCIAL SECURITY . Social security was never intended for seniors to live on . SOCIAL SECURITY WAS CREATED FOR THE WELFARE POPULATION . Log in to Freedom Disability , READ THE FINE PRINT for yourself . It is also shown on cable television all day every day . It is a lawyers office specializing in DISABILITY INSURANCE INCOME …..Small print says all money paid to recipient is paid from SOCIAL SECURITY . Every recorded wage earner in the nation pays welfare through social security . It makes no difference what party . The more you earn , the more you pay into welfare .

  • FWiedner

    Government civil amd military retirees should be included among the welfare and entitlement mindset class. These are the persons most directly responsible for guiding the nation to the brink of socialism and bankruptcy.

    • Barbara

      If you really want to talk about entitlement mindset then talk about the politicians. Read what our founding fathers had to say about it. First, it was never intended to be a job, much less one that pays retirement. It was originally intended for our congressmen to not hold office for more than two consecutive terms. They were then supposed to go back to their own businesses and jobs to support themselves. If they then wanted to they could then run for office again, for no more than two consecutive terms. It was also intended for them to only be compensated for the time that congress was actually in session. The rest of the year they were supposed be about their business in order to provide for themselves and their families. I can promise you that 1 retired congressman receives more that any military retiree, civil retiree, or SS recipient, all of whom paid into retirement accounts of one kind or another.

    • FWO21

      Military retirees have earned their retirement, Federal government employees have not. It use to be a bad thing to work for the government because you never knew when you could lose your job. Now, it is just a given and pretty secure, from what I can tell.

      Explain to me, if you can, why a person has to pay taxes on half of their SS check? SS is a tax. It just seems unAmerican to me.

      • T i m

        YOU NEED TO CHECK YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU SPEAK . My father spent 4 0 year career in military civilian Civil service , sending supplies to all troops world wide . He paid in to the social security / welfare tax system , same as all other recroded wage earners in the nation . Father died shortly after retirement , from cancer . Mom was already gone . ALL DAD’S MONEY WENT TO WELFARE POPULATION , after 4 0 year career . DO NOT TELL ME ALL FEDERAL EMPLOYEES ARE ON WELFARE , WHAT EVER IT WAS YOU SAID . DO NOT GIVE AN OPINION JUST TO HAVE ONE . My name is T i m .

    • T i m

      YOUR COMMENT MAKES ME SO FURIOUS , YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. My father spent 4 0 year career with federal civil service . He loaded the trucks to send supplies all over the world to support our troops . He paid the same taxes everyone elsepays . Father died from cancer shortly after retirement ….ALL HIS MONEY GONE . You need to keep your opinion to your self till you can talk face to face with what you criticize . My name is T i m ( GOD forgive me ). .

      • FWiedner

        The government is a parasite and government workers suck the blood from productive citizens. Neither the government as an entity or anyone who represents it has ever produced anything but debt. Taxes are money for nothing in return. Government employees are no better than whores at a free clinic.

  • Barbara

    For all you who are bashing Social Security, just remember that privatizing SS has been an issue that people don’t want. Why exactly I am not sure. I received more money back from my private retirement account than I ever will with SS and I paid in the same amount every month. The government needs money to back all their other welfare programs and have been stealing it from SS since the 60′s. Maybe if they had just left it alone, we would not be having a SS “crisis” now. As for the high welfare numbers right now, let’s just look at the economy. My husband and I had our own ‘Mom and Pop’ business for 30 years. It took all of three years of income being half of expenses for us to use all our savings and lose our home, vehicle and personal possesions. For 55 years I lived never taking a thing from the government. I can’t tell you how thankful we are for getting assistance now. Also understand that it was not that easy to get. It is privacy laws that make it impossible to get illegals and defrauders off government dole. Let’s work to fix the problem instead of complaining. Find out how your congressmen and women vote on these issues and get them out if they don’t respresent you.

    • T i m

      My name is T i m . I can answer that for you . People do not want Social security privitized because it means they must begin their own book keeping , and also , the more money you make the more taxes you pay . Plain basic social security is a simple deduction , and never worry about it until retirement . IF THE TRUE FACTS BE KNOWN , Social Security has always been privitized from the beginning . The government makes money off your money , has from the beginning . The government uses social security to pump up the stock market , on what ever commodity government wants to support . I can not prove it …I just know …SOME ONE GOT MY FATHERS MONEY AFTER HE DIED .

    • 45caliber


      The reason I’m against privatizing of SS is that they keep wanting to place a government man in charge of it. (They did over Freddie Mac and Fanny May – and they pay him millions a year from it.) The reason I’m against it is that HE would be the one who would select the stock to invest in. And I don’t trust a government official to do that. Further, considering the government’s past history, I don’t believe that he would be selecting stock that would make the most profit … he would be “investing” in foreign government bonds (which are generally worthless) to help that country and would insist that companies with large work forces keep them employed even if the company is going broke. Either would mean a big loss in SS funds.

  • Jay
  • FWO21

    I have read some of the posts and they are talking about oil and such. The article is about living off the taxpayers. The people who work hard so they can have a place to live, food to eat, (and not the best food at that), and drive their vehicle once in awhile, just for fun.

    They have allowed the illegal aliens from several countries to come in and just take over our country. And yes, they get welfare, health care, and food stamps. Now, I don’t begrudge a person needing it as a step up in life, but some have made it a way of life and that is very, very wrong. Where is the pride people use to have in being able to take care of themselves.

    Reagan gave the welfare recipients 5 years to get off welfare; that gave them time to find a job or go to school on a Pell grant that didn’t have to be paid back, at that time, and then they would be able to support themselves and their children. Heck, if I remember correctly, Whopi Goldberg was on welfare at one time. Look at her now. She did very well for herself. I don’t know if she had friends or family helping her though.

  • old hillbilly

    AMAZING that we fight amongst ourselves while thieves steal our life savings!

    Because Americans haven’t been taught anything about annuities, value of capital, what a free capitalist society is… our elected national officers have been free to obliterate the nest eggs of some 300 million people. The nest has no eggs, and the hens are being eaten!

    SSI-MEDICARE tax on wages is 15.3%! A $40,000/yr wage deposits $281,520 over 46 working years (age 18-65bd). Those 588 monthly $510 deposits grow to $1,092,620 @ 5% compounded interest. That $1,092,620 annuity @5% pays $9,539/mo for ten years (age 75)! At the max SSI wage of $106,800, the monthly benefit would be $30,942/month!!! Workers also produce-earn the huge workman’s compensation premiums on top of SSI-MED matching and withholding… “comp” is a separate element aside from SSI-MED evaluation! SSI-MED benefits can’t be reconciled to any definition of a “trust” fund. The level of theft and fraud is beyond comprehension! AND… our dysfunctional leaders will increase retirement to 68, but intend to ignore the additional deposits and huge amounts of interest due, by delaying benefits 3 years! The term “tax” doesn’t diminish any specific designated trust or obligation!

    Forty Six years ago (1965), the CPI inflation index was 31.5. It increased 714%, to 224.9 in 2011! Current dollars buy 14 cents of 1965 goods ($1×31.5/224.9)! One dollar should grow to $9.43 in 46 years @ 5% compounded annually (1.05 times $1… compounded 46 times), but stolen dollars are simply “gone”. Instead, government “loaned” it to monopolist global banks that also own “investment firms”, didn’t pay for the use of it, and simultaneously flooded the “money supply” with counterfeit dollars to destroy the trust fund dollar’s purchasing power! No government official is questioned or held accountable for losing 98.5% (1-0.14/9.43) of 1965 SSI-MEDICARE tax deposits! (Total affects of various annual inflation rates, deposits, and accumulated fund values between 1965 and 2011 are very complex. Roughly, 4.58% compounded monthly is required to offset inflation, meaning a ROI of 9.58% is required to yield 5% net capital return!) Tax revenues increase with inflation, while monetary value drops. The illusion is a piece of paper with “dollar” written on it! They all look alike; but it takes $7.14 to buy what a dollar bought in 1965! No checks and balances mean zero financial control! Tax cash goes in the vault to be exchanged for worthless bonds plus newly printed dollar bills!

    Official power to protect has been turned against the protected. We can’t count the endless ways politicians profit by devaluing the citizen’s dollar. 1) Our president, legislators, and “global” monopolists jointly restrict energy supply to raise energy prices by hundreds of billions! That collusion is destroying our country, That is treason! 2) Zero FED rates destroy jobs, pensions, and investments! 3) Our president gives billions to foreign leaders! 4) Government agencies routinely give hundreds of billions in citizen benefits to non-citizens. Extortion is defined by promising to shut everything down and collapse the economy if they can’t print trillions more worthless IOU’s and new dollars! Great idea… shut it down!

    Jails were made for anyone who gives citizen funds to non citizens or anyone else without strict checks and balances that protect citizens! Corruption will disappear when oaths of office are publicly enforced! Both parties are wallowing in years of corruption! We must freeze the debt ceiling and defund the czars, EPA, and any agency that is crippling our economy! A society that is offended by the Ten Commandments is lost! We can’t even discern what’s lost or how to protect it! Stop the bleeding NOW, TODAY! Powers to spend doesn’t include plunder and annihilation!

  • J

    I resent social security being associated with welfare and food stamps.People pay into social security for years and then find out its a colossal ponzi scheme. This is not what I would call welfare.

    • T i m

      Log in to Freedom Disability Insurance . It is advertised on radio and cable television . It is a lawyers office , specializes in selling disability insurance income ….Small print says , all moneys are paid from social security . Welare has been paid from social security from the beginning . Social Security was never intended for seniors to live on . Social security was created for the welfare population . The tax deductions on the check receipt , have nothing to do with the name on the check . It was all created for the welfare population .

  • http://none don larson

    Right/Left, Red/Blue, Conservatives/Liberals A plague on both your views and warped ideologies. Which is worse: Vulture Capitalists that steal from everybody and everything; or, the Parasites that live off the Goverment? Seems to me much of the agruments here produce the same outcome: Nobody makes and honest buck today.

    The Watch-Word of the Times seems to be: “If you ain’t doing someone, someone is doing you! So, it appears the Rich Corporate Vultures, are, “doing the typical, hardworking American;” while, the Poor and Unemployed are, “doiing the Rich Taxpayer (that is, if he paying any taxes), as so-called Parasites on the dole.”

    With but one difference: Stealing through Fraud and Deception is a Crime – - thus illegal, while Government handouts – - as much as they are despised, are legal, and a part of public policy.

  • OldFart

    I hate it when those in charge links Social Security with the likes of medicare, unemployment and food stamps.. Social security is a program (like life insurance) that every working American invests in so that at the beginning of the end of their life they may receive an allotment from their investment until they croak.. To welsh out, the feds and congress has propagandized this investment as part of the nation’s budget so that they can add the money they stole from it as part of the deficit. (knowing full well that they had no money to pay it back and couldn’t face the fact of making another tax to pay it off without benefiting them) so they convinced the nation that it was a pawnzy scheme because they want what’s left in it.. These bottom feeders have been screwing us ever since the civil war and their not about to stop now. Take Social Security out of the equation of welfare and food stamps because it has nothing to do with them other than what these political crooks have manipulated. When I was kicked out of my profession (because I became too old.. not to work but as a corporate policy) my financial portfolio was zilch because the jobs I had didn’t offer pension plans or 401k’s or any other (continued) scheme that gave people false hope, so social security prevented one more street urchin (at least in my case).. Now it seems everybody wants to kill this program and rely on other investment that in a blink of an eye could be taken from you with no apologies.. Young man, when you get to be my age you’ll understand why social security should live on.. Instead of eliminating S.S. why don’t we eliminate the sharks and bandits who’s overlooking this nest egg and get some moralistic non-g’ment professionals who will keep it save and deal it out to those who will be eventually kicked out of their profession because of old age.. And if you don’t believe their playing us against ourselves only to raid the piggy bank then you’ll vote for anybody..

    • T i m

      OLD FART , you are ssooo wrong . Where did my fathers money go after he died . Family did not qualify . Mom was already gone . WELFARE IS PAID FROM SOCIAL SECURITY . …READ THE FINE PRINT .

  • http://none don larson

    Different take on the Parasite – Safety Net argument and dichotomy:

    If one is poor, unemployed, and has children to feed; and, there is no social safety net; because the Rich lack compassion; the Kids are going to eat; and these poor, unfortunate souls will likely be coming for your food, and maybe some of your other stuff.

    The well-heeled Social Darwinists would be well-advised to remember that Survival of the Fittest, cuts both ways. Desperate people without hope, can be real menances to governments, corporations, and even one’s family. The, “Streets,” can have a leveling effect; and, the size of one’s pocket book, matters little, in situations like this. .

  • American Working Man

    Does Saj olley even know what he talks about when mentioning welfare. Social Security and Medicare is taken out of our (We the real American people) paychecks by Fica Taxes Federal Insurance Contribution Act (FICA) taxes, which include contributions to federal Social Security and Medicare programs. When we retire we get what we pay in back. Maybe Sam Rolley should go back to kissing the A’s of the GOP and his fellow Republicans, and stop trying to convince the rest of us he even knows what he writes about.

  • BlackwingA520

    Disgusting, too bad the sperm donors of these,(ahem), fine upstanding citizens, were too busy watching a Muhammad Ali fight or some bassetbawl game and drinking Colt 45 and missed the advertisments for Trojan Condoms. the world would be a much better place. People that receive welfare checks SHOULD NOT be able to vote,period! The DEMS. love these guys and the Illegals. sure thing for them at election time. They can’t win otherwise. why do you think they push so hard for open borders and Goverment giveaways.

  • norepsordems


  • H. D. Schmidt

    Yes, the USA has already been on the road called: Socialism/Communism for a long time and actually, promoted one may say, by both major parties; yes with little difference if any at all, hence the financial bakrupty conditions the USA has willing placed itself into, while at the same time blaming the whole world for all the evils that is plaguing the USA, more and more. Oh yes, that has given the USA the selfrighteous idea to build the most horrendous and brutal Empire ever with its military circling the globe, ready to shoot to pieces any nation that does not quickly bow and say: We love you America, in a figure of speech! Most Americans do not want Ron Paul to take over, right? And why? Becasue the present genration is more and more bedeviled with Inperialism and not knowing what true freedom is within the spirit of the US Constitution. At times, and as a legal immigrant now going on 57 years, I am concluding that born Americans have sold or worse yet, given USA away for free; these base on the US Constitution and all additional wise words spoken by the Founding Fathers! I rest may case for now!

  • norepsordems

    As you can see from my screen name… Reps or Dems……the reason for this is simple…I posted some comments yesterday…with several differnt people on here….and most of you are pretty well off your rocker….one…was even so stupid as to lie about what he said when he replied to me….claiming he never said the words that he did….also said he didn’t mean to offend me by posting what he said….wow….is everyone here running for office….because that’s what politicans due….and that’s the reason we as Americans are in such a mess as we are…..the continual bickering….like 4th grade children…..the name calling like 2nd graders….and the inability to even tell the truth because you can’t even due basic research…..I mean really….the only way we will ever fix the problems we have are thru truthful and meaningful dialog….and from what I read, and have been told by several here….I don’t think the majority of you here have that capability to complete that idea….you so called intelligent, college educated no it alls do not even see what the eletist , both on the democratic and the republican side have been and will continue to do to the average American…….you fight amongs yourselves and never pull together for the greater good of ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS……and this is why this country is falling apart. If you look at things with no agenda in mind you can see that both sides have good ideas, and also some really stupid ideas……but you are unwilling to give the other side the benifit of haveing a good idea, because they are a liberal or a consevitive….really….that makes a person unacceptable…..that’s a form of racism….political rasism……and we all know, we aren’t suppose to be raceist….that’s not politicaly correct….wow…shame on me useing that line….cause that’s one of the bigist oxy moron statements that has ever been used……..enough said on that…..why don’t you people try to pull together to work towards solving the problems….not aggitate the negitivity that abounds now………The big picture is too many people are trying to gain power and wealth….well guys…when ya die….you take neither with you….but you do leave your children and granchildren in the mess that you create……do you really not love them….do you not want what is best for them and their lives……this world has a finite amount of resources….so , shouldn’t you be trying to develope ways to use these to their greatest good…..coal ,oil, natural gas….all of these will run out….so work together to weaken the strength that the powers that control them have over you….unless you want your grandchildren to live in the dark ages, for real….humanity, in order to survive, needs to learn to get along…not fight…..from what I can tell, the average person on this site, is just that….average….you are never going to amass the wealth that it will take for the generations of your family you leave behind to live on and never worry……You need to leave them a world that is good……The top 1-5% of the people who have control of 70-80% of the wealth in the world are the ones who have the power…over you, me, and the guy living next door. They have the money that will keep their families in control of everyone else……They are the ones that control the 4th side of the monopoly board….and we all no what happens in that game…..whoever controls that side of the board wins……so we, the Average that contoll the other 3 sides need to pull together and fight….otherwise your grandchildren will be slaves to the 4th side. This fighting amongst yourselves is exactly what they want….because while you guys are fighting, they have pooled their billions together to take the rest from you….including your right to fight this opresion and tearany….in otherwords…you are playing into their hands…….and it is the people who stand back and look, that see the real picture……the extremeist from both sides…the republicans and the democrates are gonna get their way….but not the way you want it……some on here want to take the rights of the poor to vote away…soon, nobody will vote….for those that want to take control of others rights will have taken them all away….and those that seem it is necessary to share everything with everyone will get that…..except you will have nothing to share but being a peasant and a serf to all of those that took all of the control… keep thinking those communistic ideas of taking a specific groups right to vote away….and you will have the heavy hand of communisim surpressing all….and those that want to control evry aspect of someones life and have all the money….will have the heavy hand of facism on you….fot the billionares of the world will be sitting in their towers above the masses……looking down on the peasants they control…and if you get out of line they will send their facist tropps to squash the rebelion….this is where we are headed….it’s called The New World Order…..every president since Regan has spoken of it…..but evryone here on sites like these things all a big game….you won’t think that if you live long enough for it to be put in place….and we are really close guys…….so stop the lies you tell, stop the fighting of political racism….before history repeats its self…..200 years is pretty much the breaking point for any democracy that has ever exsisted on this planet…..and we have passed that mark…and as you can see….as a nation we are about to fail and fall…………….think about it…………….

  • old hillbilly

    America is enslaved by corrupted “elected” political officers! SSI-MED benefits are being paid by current worker trust fund deposits, plus general taxation funds, plus counterfeit currency and debt instruments! Unlike Madoff, government forces contribution, takes from general fund revenue, and sells you “funny money” to keep their Ponzi scheme going”. You don’t “get your money back” when dollars are methodically devalued into a state of worthlessness! When global banks have relative “free” use the treasury to churn your trust funds and loan them back to you at credit card rates, or finance moving your infrastructure and jobs to China… our nation and trust funds are doomed! When the frenzy of unrestrained plunder destroys a nation, does intent matter? Treason is treason, and it won’t stop until citizens force the issue! WAKE UP – play with annuity calculations & the Consumer Price Index. AMERICA IS BEING PLUNDERED!

    • norepsordems

      I have to agree with you totally old hillbilly…I have read several of your post and you are right on the money with what you are pointing out….most of the people here bicker amongst themselves just like most politicans due…Dems are right…no…Reps are right….when it has been the slow takeover by the eletist with billions on both sides of the fence….one thing I would like to add to something you posted….you said , that to compare the buying power of $1 in 1965 to today would be $7.14, I think it was…….that means when I got my 1st public job in 1976…at minimum wage of $2.35….todays minium wage would need to be in exsess of $14/hr….just to make ends meet….yet most of the fools on here don’t even understand a simple conclusion as that…..also…SS is suppose to be an insurance policy…that we are forced to use….and untill the mid 60′s it was completely solvent…untill politicans started raiding and piliageing the fund…useing it for programs and policies that it was never meant to be part of….wasn’t a ponzi scheem as many call it now….but a very useful tool that greedy politicans lay waste too……maybe soon, more of these crazies on here will open their eyes and not be the sheeple of their respective parties….willingly walking the road of distruction………..

  • old hillbilly

    Understanding the importance of annuity calculations can’t be understated. Everyone is different & most will never understand higher forms of math. But… there are very simple canned programs that can simplify endless variations of assumptions based on 5 or less pieces of information – 1) salary, 2) % of salary to be saved (tax, etc.), 3) ROI (return on investment), 4) years paying into the fund (18-65b/d=46 &it’s 49 if retied at 68, etc), and 5) years of payback (65~75=10yr, 65~78=13, 68~78=13… whatever… change one number & see it all. (Matching ROI to an inflation or the CPI table is a relatively simple task for a good numbers cruncher… it demonstrates how funds mysteriously disappear when inflation exceeds ROI, especially when the rats establish “0” ROI.) Example $40K @15.3% deposit, @5%ROI, over 49 years (18~68) & 10 yr payback (68 avg. life?)…. You paid in $299,880, future value at 68 b/d is $1,2114,371, and you’d get $13,670 PER MONTH for ten years assuming you die on b/d78! If you live forever -perpetual interest will be $5370 PER MONTH. If you earn $106,800, future value is $3,441,129, and the 10yr annuity would be $36,499 PER MONTH or $14,388 forever more if you could pass it to future generations! Those composite deposits will grow to $4.30 for every dollar invested, at a mere 5% compounded monthly.

    The fraud involved is mindboggling when compared to the $500 to maybe $1500 max SSI-MED pays in benefits! A $40K salary is about $3,333/ mo or roughly $2.833 net after the 15% current SSI-MED tax! Bottom line, that salary @ 3% SSI-MED tax would provide $2,680/mo (80% of gross salary!), which is more than take home pay after SSI & Income tax! A 3% tax to make sure no one has to starve or sleep in a culvert isn’t unreasonable, nor is it beyond the oath of office expectations to preserve and protect it! It all proves there is no accountability or ethics within government, government accounting, or The Government Accounting Standards Board (GASB)!

    When one considers the looting of principle on top of gross overpaying into the fund it is a travesty of Biblical proportions! Stealing from the aged and pillaging a nation are heinous crimes that have not been tolerated by any society, except ours. We “respect the office” regardless of officeholder!

    Again the sweat of workers provides the separate costs of workers comp (injuries), unemployment insurance, and general taxation to provide minimum assistance to the unfortunate, impaired, mentally disabled etc. Like SSI-MED these funds have ups & downs, but the same sticky fingers have looted them as well!

    Privatization of such funds is subject to less control and at least one more step away from policing the wrongdoing! Corruption will disappear when violation of oath of office and government corruption becomes crimes where punishment is far greater than stealing a car. Once the annuity is laid on the table, there are no excuses… if the official “doesn’t know or understand” resign and leave or be held accountable with total personal liability… including liability for the actions of subordinates! PASS IT ON – HOLD FEET TO THE FIRE!


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