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Way Off Target

March 1, 2012 by  

Way Off Target

President Barack Obama’s former White House Chief of Staff, current Chicago mayor and eternal Democratic godfather Rahm Emanuel advised: “You never let a serious crisis go to waste.” In keeping with the philosophy of the hollow-eyed Gollum of Grant Park on turning public tragedy into political treasure, liberals from the ivory towers of the corporate media to the sewers of the left-wing blogosphere have raised the hue and cry about firearms in the wake of the killing of three students, allegedly at the hand of the severely disturbed T.J. Lane in Chardon, Ohio.

Of course, the bodies are not yet cold and the tears not yet dry. But by all that is Obama-approved, the Democrats will turn this sordid tale into a volley fire at the battlements of the Bill of Rights — or further humiliate themselves trying.

Leading the charge of the lout brigade was, of course, MSNBC, aka the Democrat Channel. Someone named Alex Wagner, who apparently worked for the George Soros-backed vomiteers at ThinkProgress before running away to join the MSNBC circus, donned her tinfoil hat on Tuesday, ranting:

“… the only protection against gun violence is, in the end, the law. And yet, in the very same states that have seen the country’s grisliest gun crimes — Colorado, Virginia and Ohio — state legislators have — remarkably — tried to weaken gun control…”

Well, Obama forbid anyone mention the law, the police, some semblance of personal conduct or even common decency — all of which Lane ignored — to the intrepid Wagner. Clearly, showing regard for the victims and their families never entered the equation, although we’ll forgive MSNBC for its macabre scavenging. It needs the sensationalism; it has nary a viewer to spare.

It’s also worth noting Wagner’s resurrection of the almost laughably clichéd phrase “gun violence.”  Every time liberals need to blame the bugaboo of firearms and/or the National Rifle Association for some human-caused tragedy they pull out that phrase. Dismissing “gun violence” as a weak-kneed leftist catchphrase is trite. But when a group of devout Democrats get together to exploit senseless violence in an effort to breach the walls of the Bill of Rights, clichéd and trite are as close as anyone is likely to get to logic and reason.

Meanwhile, the Democrat hate-speech clearinghouse Dailykos featured Sam Diener, the “Education Coordinator” at the “Center for Nonviolent Solutions.” Diener scribbled out nearly 1,700 words under the heading “Talking Points on the School Shooting in Chardon OH.” In the text of the predictably far-left screed, Diener states flatly what has yet to be proven: “Guns increase danger.” Actually, people with malevolent intentions increase danger; guns are merely a tool. Blaming guns for what Lane allegedly did in Chardon is like blaming General Motors for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne.

Guns are merely a scapegoat for the misdirected wrath of a liberal movement that is always quick to excuse criminal behavior. Consider the fact that the same Democrats who routinely demand an abrogation of the Bill of Rights will line up to defend people who use guns to commit violent crimes, notably if they’re African-American and if the crimes involve killing police officers.

Furthermore, consider the fact that Democrat-controlled cities like Detroit, Washington and Obama’s and Emanuel’s hometown, Chicago, are virtual war zones despite draconian anti-gun laws.

I often refer to what I like to call “the politics of easy.” It is indeed easy to blame guns for crimes such as those Lane allegedly committed. Being inanimate objects, guns are unlikely to muster much of a defense. It’s easier still to use anti-gun rhetoric in defense of criminal behavior — especially when said defense will provide brickbats with which to attack their political enemies. And if said enemies — in the opinion of the liberal elite — need to be disarmed, that’s all the better. So what if some personal tragedies need to be turned into stage characters in a twisted liberal passion play?

–Ben Crystal

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • s c

    Ben, it’s a waste of time to argue with moral retards, and trying to enlighten them is pointless because they take their marching orders from OTHERS. They THINK they’re in control of their own emotions, but they’re not. They’ve been programmed, and their puppet masters get to sit back and watch their puppets perform.
    The object of this game is utter, absolute control of Americans. No matter how many times you tell those useful idiots what they need to know, their programming overrides common sense.
    As a result, normal, sensible people have to continually come up with new ways to break through that damned programming. Children can understand, but not anti-gun space cadets.
    The list of items that “need” to be ‘banned’ [as their programmed non-reasoning dictates] includes rocks, swords, fists, knees, elbows, daggers, knifes, pistols, rifles,
    lances, hammers, crowbars, baseball bats, chains, bows, arrows, motorcycles, cars, pickups, bans, boats, planes, ships and even locomotives. ALL of those items KILL people, so they might as well claim that all these items (and many more) MUST be eliminated from “civilization.”
    Their masters have chosen to concentrate on what we call ‘weapons’ [pistols, rifles, machine guns and all types of ammunition]. Then, they claim, America will be “civilized,” and somehow life will be beautiful [full-blown, utopian insanity].
    Like I said, Ben, it’s like trying to deal with semi-adults who have been programmed and drugged. Common sense is NOT part of the equation. For the rest of us, all we need to see their insanity for what it is can be found in the Constitution.
    WHY try to reason with people who despise history? It’s not my job to re-program puppets. Unless and until they try to eliminate the 2nd Amendment (forever), I’ll try to ignore them. If they even get close to eliminating the 2nd Amendment, then all the rules are off, and whatever happens is self-defense. Put the cow patty in THEIR pockets, and let them learn the HARD way – like ALL tyrants should.

    • Robert Smith

      From s c: “ALL of those items KILL people, so they might as well claim that all these items (and many more) MUST be eliminated from “civilization.”

      You forgot to include in your list homosexuals (AIDS), abortion (it’s a baaaaabbbbbyyyyyy”), recreational drugs (reefer madness), and lack of health care. Oops that last one is from the extreme right.

      The RIGHT s screaming the culture of death to its own ends also.

      In a truly free America we need to udnerstand that the personal freedoms may not agree with what we consider our own priorities, but others are ALSO entitled to their freedoms.

      Rob

      • Rocky Night

        Are they going to ban cars next?

        How many die in accidents each tear?

        Lets keep America free.

      • eddie47d

        Almost no one deliberately kills with a car but almost all gun deaths are a deliberate act by the person controlling the weapon. That is the difference that seems to be elusive to you Rocky.

      • cawun cents

        I’ll tell you why I carry a gun,,,,,,because carrying around one of those fat cops would get a little heavy,know-what-I-mean-Verne?

        Here about ten years ago I went outside at a friends house to investigate a commotion in the street.A fight had broken out,and some men were rolling around in the street,exchanging punches and wrestling.A friend of one of the pugilists,decided to get his gun to try to even up the odds in his buddies favor a bit.He returned and just began firing his pistol at the gathered crowd.
        I now have had the distinct honor of having been shot at at point blank range by a gangbanger.
        If that dumb son of a biscuit eater had known how to point the darn thing(nickel plated .357 magnum)I wouldnt be posting here today.He had one of those limp wristed approaches to gunplay,and fired it into the asphalt instead of me from less than six feet away.Missed my leg by an inch or so,but turned and actually shot the guy next to me in the leg.Everyone including me,ran like hell when we realized that there was a guy with a gun.
        Several days later,both of the gang members died in a high-speed chase with the state troopers.

        When I was nineteen and liked to party,some friend of mine were drinking beer at a local park,when some members of an outlaw motorcycle club came by to rob us at gun point.
        Has anyone here actually had someone that they dont know point a gun directly in their face with bad intent?I have…..it aint pretty.A bad biker will do just about anything to anyone.
        I know some of these people,and you cannot trust them if they have a gun,or if they dont have a gun.To some of them,killing is a sport.
        I went home,loaded my shotgun,went back to the place I was robbed and caught the offenders robbing someone else.I asked them nicely to put down their gun,and thankfully they did,seeing that I was pissed and holding a 12 gauge.A woman who had been being robbed,picked up the bikers gun,pointed it in his face and said,”How do you like it a$$hole?”And then we proceeded to retrieve our stolen merchandise,and cash.

        In 1982,I was working in a convienience store in a bad neighborhood when a fellow of African descent came into the store and pointed his pistol at me demanding money.
        I gave him the money and was promptly fired that very same day,by the store owner for giving away his cash.The fellow had worked at the store previously to me,and had been caught raiding the till for personal stash money.He was the reason I was hired in the first place,as a replacement.

        My point is this:
        The law enforcement officials cannot protect you from the badguys.Neither can the do gooder legislators.If you let them take your ability to defend yourself away,then you will be totally at the mercy of those who dont give a rats posterior if you live or die as long as they can subjugate you by force.I know this to be true on a personal,and intimate level.Not because I have empty words associating myself with liberal talkingpoints,not beacuse I love God and guns(which I do),but because I have experienced firsthand what it is like to be unarmed and at the mercy of those who are.My vote is and always has been to keep firearms handy to supppress criminals from doing things which have already been done to me.Any other argument is just plain wrong.

        Cheers! To firearms owners and 2nd amendment supporters
        Jeers! To those to stupid to live,who think that the gubment can protect them from danger
        -CC.

      • cawun cents

        Smith,47d…..
        Did the gubment protect those kids from dying?
        Did the legislated law keep the other kid from shooting them?
        No.
        There is your answer.
        You cant legislate safety.
        It is impossible.
        Thank you,have a nice day.
        -CC.

      • eddie47d

        The 10 Commandments are laws handed down by God so yes you can legislate laws to govern people. Parents have laws to teach their children right from wrong so they are legislating to their kids. Society as a whole can legislate laws to make their community better. Some work out great for many and some are intrusive to others. The bottom line is to encourage the good laws and fix or repeal the bad laws.

      • 45caliber

        Rocky:

        Cars do kill more people a year in the US than guns do. Perhaps we should ban those first…

      • Dennis48e

        “……. but almost all gun deaths are a deliberate act by the person controlling the weapon.”

        source to prove the statement eddie.

      • Robert Smith

        Dennis asks: “source to prove the statement eddie.”

        Sheesh… Some things are so obvious.

        The situation with the avilability of firearms is there ain’t never gonna be a program that’s going to solve all the problems. That is the price of freedom.

        The key to REDUCING the carnage is to recognize and understand that not all folks are as stable as one might hope. That means we need PROGRAMS in place to help assure that mental health is taken care of, just as physical health should be taken care of.

        Of course the right wing isn’t going to want to spend any money to help on that front so what’s next?

        I know! Let the killing continue and the right wing won’t take any responsibility and the left will continue to point that out.

        With freedom there IS responsibility. Mental health care is part of that responsibility.

        Rob

      • Dennis48e

        RS eddie is implying almost all gun deaths are murders. I want his sources for his claims so others can check whether that is in fact true or if there are more self defence shootings than murders, whether there are more suicides than murders, etc. While I do not have the stats handy I suspect you will find that self defence and suicides either one outnumber the instances of murder.

      • Meteorlady

        So Eddie47 – I was accosted in a parking lot by three Mexican nationals with knives wanting my purse and my car. I showed them my gun instead, they ran and I and got in my car and called the police. What would have happened is left to your imagination, but they probably would have killed me because I could identify them. Oh, ya… the police came buy 20 minutes later with sirens blasting…..

        See I weight 130LBS and am older. I have gone to gun classes and am certified and can conceal carry. I find it sad that this country as deteriorated into this, but I feel safer because I carry.

      • Meteorlady

        Robert – read my reply to Eddie47. Then tell me why I need to give up my gun? Also, have you actually applied to purchase a gun? The questions are there, but there is no way to verify that you have answered them correctly unless they find a criminal record somewhere…. The fact is I carry my gun(s) so that the crazies will not hurt me.

        By most of you liberal logic, pencils misspell words (not illiterate people) and so on…..

      • cawun cents

        From what I can see Smith,47d,flashy(although I know he isnt here to jab back)
        you have been programmed well to begin with.
        That kind of programming(in the way you define it as a euphemism for brainwashing)is not welcome on my end of the spectrum.
        Since I have little to wash,it is difficult to see why the effort is put forth to do so,but that has been the case since my early childhood.But you ultra-brilliant progressive liberal braniacs,have no such excuse.You have been trapped,duped,used,and forced to eat scatcandy for so long,you need excuses to prop yourselves and your progressive taskmasters up.Yes…..back the gubment when it seems they have my views in mind.
        There are many ways to be brainwashed.
        The symptoms of love for our brainwasher are:
        Overlooking obvious flaws in the message and the messenger,sacrificing our own wants and needs to make our brainwasher happy,changing who we are,altering our indentity to fit the reality crafted by our brainwasher,offering to suffer punishment for the needs of the many so that we can go along to get along for our brainwasher,making excuses for them and trying to rationalize away contradictions in your brainwashers behavior,holding your tongue when you know that your brainwasher is dead wrong,becoming willing to subject yourself to strange new rituals that you are required to perform(such as green energy,and the right of healthcare)and finally even after you discover that you’ve been had,offering to redouble your efforts into recruiting others into your fantasy world.
        When saying is believing,and believing leads to behavior,what we do,we become.
        In a perfect world you are fully convinced that this cannot happen to you.
        Heh,heh,
        No worries mate.
        Your gubment has your best interests at heart,and as they manipulate your mind,you become one with them and their goal.
        The cult of multi-”cult”uralism is where its at man.
        That and a TICKET to the annual worlders convention,and you can have your very own
        Socialiste-Democratique armband.
        Yay!
        I bet that if you asked people who lived under Stalin if he was a great man,they would say,”Of course!”In fact I have heard some of them say so.
        Sad that they dont even get that their minds were scrubbed clean.
        So propagandize your great leaders.Let them tear you down,so they can lift you up.
        Be the person they want you to be.
        Take your scrubbing like good little dupes,but please understand that those of us who have no brain to scrub are out here watching.
        We can learn alot from you.
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • Doug Rodrigues

        eddy47 below has made an untrue statement about automobiles. There are many documented cases where automobiles have been used in murder. Here in the Reno area was a case where a woman drove at high speed on downtown sidewalks to intentionally kill people. She killed 7 innocent people that day. There are many cases of murder by automobile. All you have to do is research the crime. eddy47 seems to think that yet another law will protect the innocent. Well, have I got news for you, eddy47. Laws don’t mean anything to a law breaker, or haven’t you figured that out yet? There is no such think as a perfectly safe world. Nature produces enough social abnormalities that we will always have killers. All the laws in the world won’t stop it. I assume that you want guns banned, correct? The result would be a society of disarmed potential victims. You should go back to reality and stop with the dream-land thinking that another law or gun banning would make you safe.

        (ret. law enforcement)

      • 45caliber

        CC:

        I was sort of on the other end one day. At the time I lived in a place that was the last house on a dead end street with forest behind us. I was home on vacation when the neighbor across the street came pounding on our door scared whiter than her sleeping gown. Some one was breaking into her house. I grabbed by .22 rifle and ran out the back hoping I could get behind her house before he ran. I was in my backyard when he sailed out her back window. He’d seen the door open where she had left and knew someone had been home.

        I yelled and he ran. I started shooting just above his head since I was afraid that the cops might get excited if I shot him. He jumped a 5 foot high chain link fence without touching it. He ducked around some trees and crossed the top of a hill. I ran a hundred yards. He could go two ways – both over 200 yards – and he was out of sight. I did chase him around against the bank of a lake.

        The cops came out and waited. Sure enough he walked out where expected and they caught him. They brought him back to see if we could identify him. I never got a good look and she was too scared. But he did have a watch she recognized. Further he had come out of the house with a red piggy back that looked like a cash register. I found it where he had jumped the fence and called a cop over. We both admired it – there was a complete set of finger prints you could see without any problem at all! The cop said it was the best set he’d seen in 23 years on the force.

        First, I was asked by the cops why I didn’t shoot him at least in the leg. I told them I figured I’d get in trouble. One told me that they would have taken me down to jail but would have released me in an hour or so. When questioning the woman, she made them think he had stolen a .357 pistol. (He hadn’t.) One of the cops came over and said, “Did you know he had stolen a pistol? If he had turned arouind toward you, you’d have been in trouble!”

        I told him, “I’m standing there with a rifle and he has a pistol at 150 yards. I’d be in trouble? I’d quit playing!” He got a good laugh.

        The lawyer tried to get the couple to drop charges since “this was his first offense and he’s just a boy!” (18) They refused. It turned out that he had been arrested 32 times for burglary and this was his first conviction. The judge gave him a 6 month suspended sentence. His landlord (who I met later) told me that he had talked to the boy. The bullets going by his head about a foot away did more to convince him robbery was a bad idea than all 32 arrests put together.

        • Ronald R. Johnson

          You are lucky, usually now days if you shoot a criminal you go to jail [ that is if the cops don't shoot you]! Good Job!

      • eddie47d

        Meteorlady where did I say you couldn’t have a gun to defend yourself? Besides whether you are right or wrong still leaves you with the responsibility of that weapon.

        • Ronald R. Johnson

          If eddie47d was in office you can sure bet he would be sitting on one of Obama’s knees taking notes on how to take guns away from honest citizens and jail honest citizens who shoot some one who is breaking into their home! But you could also bet he would travel with the armed guard Obama gave him! So lets not ever vote for him!

      • eddie47d

        Doug R. People swallow chicken bones too and die but they don’t buy chicken because they want to kill themselves. Saying a person buys a car to deliberately kill someone is ludicrious. Rare exceptions don’t make a rule.

      • eddie47d

        Cawman Cents rationalizes and contradicts himself all the time. You are so beholden to fear and loathing you see nothing else and nobody but your weapon is your best friend. Everyone else is irrelivant and you alter your identity to fit the needs of GOA with little rational thought for others. You’ve shut down these senseless killings to the point they they are normal to you. Where we must accept them as a society as the price to pay for the Second Amendment. That kind of thinking is too cold and callous for my blood.

        • Ronald R. Johnson

          If this idiot would promise to take Obama and all his Czars and other people who think like him [ oh and don't forget Bloomberg and the Brady Bunch] I would pay for the trip if he also promised none would ever come back. As stupid as he is i bet he does not even know he is a criminals best friend!

      • eddie47d

        Dennis made the accusation that I said that all gun deaths are murder. Never said that and it was never implied…..Not even a good try Dennis.

        • Ronald R. Johnson

          Is anyone really dumb enough to believe eddied47? If he could he would keep anyone from having a gun except Obama,cops and Obama and his peoples guards! Oh and of course eddie47d

      • Robert Smith

        Dennis: “RS eddie is implying almost all gun deaths are murders.”

        Actually it’s easy enough to google “Gun Deaths.”

        One thing surprised me. It’s obvious that D.C. can have a high death rate because of guns per 1,000,000 people but it surprised me that Alaska is #2! It’s not only the number who are killed (or die as in the case of suicide) but the number relative to the population.

        Now, please take into account that I’m in favor of assisted suicide. That is usually thought of in the context of terminal illness and going out with some sort if dignity. But, I also understand that suicde is also the end stage of depression and treatable.

        To eliminate about half the gun deaths would be to eliminate the suicides. OR recognize that they aren’t part of the gun statistics except coincidently. OIW it’s clear that someone is going to commit suicide and only the means are up for discussion in this context. So, I’m sure the right wing wants to play a shell game and delete half the gun deaths that are suicides while at the same time not offer any mental health care for those who might commit suicide. How christian of them.

        At the same time the left needs to recognize that there is a problem with suicide and guns and lobby for more health care. Something they do naturally but at the same time the right crushes it. Oh well..

        Other aspects of gun deaths can be addressed in similar fashion.

        Rob

      • vicki

        Robert Smith writes

        At the same time the left needs to recognize that there is a problem with suicide and guns and lobby for more health care. Something they do naturally but at the same time the right crushes it. Oh well..

        Typical of a liberal to claim we want something that we don’t. We do not object to your providing as much healthcare as the left wants. We just object to the left using the force of government to take OUR money away (if they did that directly they could be arrested for mugging) for their pet suicide survivor.

      • vicki

        eddie47d says:

        Almost no one deliberately kills with a car but almost all gun deaths are a deliberate act by the person controlling the weapon. That is the difference that seems to be elusive to you Rocky.

        What eludes eddie47d is the fact that guns are obviously a better tool for self defense than a car. Witness how many of the elite either have their own or have bodyguards that have them.

        Eddie47d IS trying to insinuate that guns are used to murder by the way he wrote the sentence. The 2.5 million ounce gorrilla in the room is the 2.5 MILLION+ times that people used a gun to defend themselves or others mostly WITHOUT firing a shot. Kinda hard (but not impossible) to create a “gun death” without actually shooting the gun.

        evidence of the 2.5 million figure is here
        http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

      • eddie47d

        More assumptions from Vickie. Gun deaths could be aligned with knifes or explosives but seldom with a car yet the active gunners always use cars and road deaths as an excuse to justify everything they say.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        “Dennis made the accusation that I said that all gun deaths are murder.”

        Dennis never said that he said, and I agree, your post implied that almost all gun deaths were murder.

      • http://charter.net Nancy B.

        If guns kill people, then spoons make Rosie O’Donnell fat…………..

    • Dan

      Funny how no one questions the guidance counselors in this school or any teachers who you know missed all the tell tale signs of these loner looser kids. May these students rest in peace and everyone held accountable for the injustice this turd put upon this school.

      • Dave

        This kid didn’t go to this school. He was en route to the vocational school around the corner somewhere. No gudance counselor to catch this. A security person might have helped but a backpack is an easy hiding place for a pistol.
        Sad that something made him justify the violence. Still waiting to hear the “excuse” that will be given.

      • 45caliber

        Dan:

        From what I understand, he was attending a school for troublemakers. He was already in trouble for something.

      • Meteorlady

        Since he was already labeled as a troublemaker, his parents should have had some understanding of his mental make-up. Where did he get the gun? I just don’t understand the liberal point of view. Someone, somewhere believed they could save this child by putting him in a special school with others…..

      • eddie47d

        Where would Meteorlady put a 17 year old?Out on the street,locked up at home where he may not receive any education. Have the police intrude into everyone lives to monitor each citizen just in case they might do something wrong? These killings have been going on for a few years now and we still don’t get it right.

      • vicki

        eddie47d writes

        These killings have been going on for a few years now and we still don’t get it right.

        Of course they have. Schools are a gun-free zone so the killers KNOW they will have many minutes to conduct their murders unopposed.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSnKVA0rBLU

      • vicki

        For those who STILL want a gun free zone here is how to set one up
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7pGt_O1uM8

    • traderphil

      ONCE AGAIN, WAS that kid on PRESCRIPTION ANTI-DEPRESSANT DRUGS or under the “care” of a psychologist like the madman who shot the Senator and killed that little girl in Arizona, for example. Nothing like a bunch of PHARMACEUTICAL DRUGS TO WARP ANYONE’s MIND!! They make a s— load of $$$$$$ flogging their poisons though. ?? If one checks into it, you will find that PHARMACEUTICAL DRUGS , especially anti-depressants, due to the fact that they CREATE HOPELESSNESS< DEEP DEPRESSION AND SUICIDAL THOUGHTS< ETC. in people using them, actually CREATES chemical in-balances in their brain!!!!! We have MAD SCIENTISTS running the Bug Pharma 'labs" , in my opinion! Well over 100,000 Americans DIE EVERY YEAR from the "proper " use of PRESCRIPTION DRUGS! STREET USE of pharma drugs is OUT OF CONTROL!!!!!! With the MOST PHARMACEUTICALLY DRUGGED nation in the history of the world AND the biggest prison population per capita IN THE WORLD, i think that ALL murders should include CHECKS FOR PHARMACEUTICAL DRUGS(poisons) . The #'s would be staggering! IMHO that is. There is a NATURAL CURE FOR ALL AILMENTS!!! Wake up folks!!! Or maybe you are all just too "pharma-drugged" to be bothered.

    • 1MIke

      The second admendment is there to stop Tyranny in government, which we have. Second to protect your family. We have a Constitution that the people in government are ignoring and will continue to ignore until they have to live by the laws they inact. Their retirement should be placed into Social Security and they should have a 401k like everyone else. They should have to pay for their medical as everyone else. There are many other “perks” that if taken away things would change. I appreciate your comments.

      • absolutely amazed

        As best I can tell, anyone other than a legitimate hunter who owns a gun is a nut – proved time and time again. You weirdos who are keeping guns because you hate democracy and are planning to overthrow – kill/shoot – whom you don’t like are legitimately insane. Go live in Afghanistan where your type live and reign. They don’t have taxes, import/export controls, state schools, or health insurance. They are ready to welcome you with open arms – they are your type of people. Leave this country to democracy and the vote – as long as the vote isn’t bought by the Koch Brothers, Adelson, and their fellow travellers.

        • John

          Apparently you never learned history, the colonists used their “assault rifles ” to kill German soldiers, brought in By king George. The Constitution never mentions hunting. A “militia” mentioned in the Constitution wad then defined as every able bodied man between 18-80, these were to keep practice with and maintain skills to (yes) hunt because it was a shame to waste bullets on paper, but this also gave us our militia of trained sharpshooters who soundly defeated the most powerful nation in the world at that time . With out which we would still be British SUBJECTS, not American Citizens, Remember this and remember it well IF WE AS AMERICAN CITIZENS LOSE THE 2ND AMENDMENT, we have lost it all the rest of the Constitution, will be observed to the benefit of whatever group is in power. Obama has violated so many laws the only way to stop this now is to revisit 1776 only now it’s not King George but Washington that needs a lesson in GOVERNING.

        • Ronald R. Johnson

          Absolutely amazed, can you really be such an Idiot! The more you say the nuttier you sound. So according to what you say all Police officers, all armed guards, Obama’s Guards,and Holder,Pelosie, Reid,Bloomberg, Waters, Body Guards, all members of the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, Coast Guard, and the National Guard would be gun crazy murderers! What a nut you are! And it’s you that does not believe in the Democracy. It’s the law that it’s legal for honest sane people to won guns and since that would probably exclude you that is your real reason to be against guns! seems it’s you and all the nuts who think like you about gun ownership who should be sent to all the countries you named! After a short while over there I bet your ideas about gun ownership would change real quick. Citizens with out guns are slaves and a lot of us wont be one! People like you when we were fighting the British would have been the very ones trying to disarm our people and helping the British do it and enslave us!

          • John

            Glad to see someone knows a little history and the true meaning of the constitution!

  • http://httpaol.com sean murrey ILLInio

    Screw the anti gun libs.

    • eddie47d

      This article is extremism at it’s finest as per usual plays the blame game against Liberals.Never an ounce of responsibility from the supposedly Conservative elements of society.They continually run to the 2nd Amendment and hide behind it’s skirt. Only begrudged compassion for the victims is ever acknowledged and the race to the Gun Store to buy more ammo takes precedence. One thing he got right is that “the bodies weren’t even cold” and gun sales go through the roof.Happens every time without fail!

      • http://gravatar.com/votedagainstcarter votedagainstcarter

        So eddie47d,..

        So you have your rectalhat ON TIGHT as usual.

        Silly libratard

      • traderphil

        In my humble opinion, BOTH political parties in the USA have the SAME SHADOW BOSSES!!!!! DDDDUUUUUHHHHHH!!!!!! It is so rediculous to hear you folks talk like there is a difference!!! WHAT CHANGED WHEN OBAMA CAME INTO OFFICE??? That;s right !! NOTHING!!! (He actually has INCREASED the # of Banksters in his “circle of Influence” As a matter of fact things are FAR WORSE NOW with ZERO of Obama’s platform promises kept (totally expected) AND he has CREATED MORE DEBT THAN ALL OTHER PRESIDENTS BEFORE HIM COMBINED and MORE WARS!!! GREAT JOB!!! Open your eyes fella! COGNITIVE DISSONANCE is alive and well in you for sure!!! Oh yes! If the TRUE # of unemployed were told in the USA it is OVER 20%, well over!!!

      • Dennis48e

        ” One thing he got right is that “the bodies weren’t even cold” and gun sales go through the roof.Happens every time without fail!”

        what is your source to support this rediculous statement eddie.

      • Meteorlady

        Coincidently I got this email today:

        Guns have only two enemies rust and politicians.

        Its always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

        Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not you.

        Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside arms length.

        Never say “I’ve got a gun.” If you need to use deadly force, the first sound they hear should be the safety clicking off.

        The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes, the response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

        The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win – cheat if necessary.

        Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets . . . You may get killed with your own gun, but he’ll have to beat you to death with it, cause it’ll be empty

        If youre in a gun fight: (1) If you’re not shooting, you should be loading; (2) If you’re not loading, you should be moving; and (3) If you’re not movin’, you’re dead.

        In a life and death situation, do something . . . It may be wrong, but do something!

        If you carry a gun, people call you paranoid. Nonsense! If you have a gun, what do you have to be paranoid about?

        You can say ‘stop’ or ‘alto’ or any other word, but a large bore muzzle pointed at someone’s head is pretty much a universal language.

        You cannot save the planet, but you may be able to save yourself and your family.

        I have been attacked in a parking lot. You can read my comment on this page. It’s stupid to say I hide behind the 2nd Amendment… I don’t hide from anything anymore… I go into the metroplex and am secure that I can defend myself. When was the last time a police officer showed up when a crime or murder was being committed? Get real here. Our cities are getting more and more unsafe just watch the evening news. Unfortunately I have to go there every once in awhile so I carry.

      • The Pilot

        Sorry eddie47d, but you’re playing right into the hands of the divide and conquer people by name calling. If you would stop name calling (Oh, you’re a liberal basher, etc.) and just take a look at what’s happening you would find that there are people who can understand causation and those who can’t. Those who can’t or don’t understand causation, think that guns cause violence and want to ban them, while those who do understand it, know immediately that only crazy people cause unwarranted violence and then look as to how to handle that problem.

        So the real question is what drives people crazy. And then, how can we make people sane again. Meanwhile, don’t think that psychology and psychiatry can or will make people sane, as a quick check of their results will show that they only make people less sane (or completely insane).

        This country has been divided beyond belief by the psy-war operation directed at us by the British Tavistock Institute and their hundreds of American branches and affiliates. We’ve got liberals vs conservatives, Republicans vs Democrats, Christians vs Muslims vs Mormons, the South vs the North, Second Amendment supporters vs anti-gun activists, etc.. So don’t fall for the divide and conquer crap. There really is very little difference between the Democrats and the Republicans where the rubber meets the road. And the same is true about the liberals and the conservatives.

        Taking guns out of the hands of the American people is just part of the plan devised by the real rulers of America (commonly referred to as “the banksters”) and their secret society fronts, as a prerequisite to turning this country into a slave society.

      • eddie47d

        You have to go ask the author why he said that Dennis or didn’t you read the article?

        • Ronald R. Johnson

          I bet it wont be long before this idiot eddie47d is sitting on one of Obamas knees taking notes on how to take our guns away! Obama hears about him and he will be Czar!

      • New Extremist

        FOOL!!!!

      • eddie47d

        Ronald are you the new …. in town! Put in your own word because I mine wouldn’t be kind. Now were you born like that or just practicing?

        • Ronald R. Johnson

          eddie47d I tried to read your post,but since it made no sense I didn’t get much out of it. And as to being new last time I checked my I D shows I’m not really new at all. But none the less like so many others on here it didn’t take long to get your number, you are clear as glass! But you and nuts like you wont stop honest people from getting gun and ammo no matter what you and or your buddie Obama does and thank god he will be gone soon.
          The citizens of this country wont be disarmed and made into slaves as citizens in other countries did when their guns were taken away and if we are lucky you and all the other nuts who think like you may have died and be in the ground! At least we can hope so!

      • eddie47d

        That answers the question…you were born that way. LOL

        • John

          My question here is were you born an idiot or did you work on it your whole life. If born an idiot it must be second generation no one can be born that much an idiot in the first generation. If he worked on it his whole life he must have worked 20 hours a day from age one.

    • Dave

      What about the anti-gun conservatives. Oh, their out there.
      Not all libs are anti-gun, either.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        While your statements are true on the surface I suspect 90+% of the antigun retoric comes from liberals and 90% of the pro gun comes from concervatives.

  • GGB

    Would be difficult to present a better argument, leave the ‘things’ out of the discussion and lets concentrate on the behavior and moral decay.

    • Meteorlady

      Of course. I live in Texas… needless to say we have an invasion of foreign nationals that our government ignores. It’s getting worse and worse and our crime rates are going up and up. 20 years ago, even 15, it was safe to go into Dallas/Fort Worth, even at night. Now it’s not. It’s not safe even in crowded parking lots anymore. I was accosted at 1:30 in the afternoon, at a Mall parking lot, by three Mexican nationals with knives. They wanted my car and purse. I told them I was getting my car keys out for them and pulled my gun instead. They ran, I got in my car and called the police. 20 minutes later police arrived with sirens blaring only to find the robbers long gone. Later they caught them doing the same thing in another parking lot when security called to inform them there these guys were roving the parking lot and were suspicious. I had to spend time identifying them in a line-up along with 6 other victims that came forward.

  • kategray

    this has nothing to do with the guns themselves, it has to do with the parents of these kids. Big government has stepped into your home and not allowed parents to be parents. They supercede your authority and tell you not to spank your child or yell because of low self esteem. We want our children to be productive assets to society and not self centered. Boundries must be set to insure a better young adult.

    • Dav

      Well, now that you mention it, it certainly IS about parents. Presumably, this deranged child got the gun from home. Why wasn’t it locked up in a gun safe? I don’t believe we should legislate that gun owners use guns safes and/or gun locks or take formal training. Rather, I believe in common sense. I have a gun safe and I use it. I train regularly. I take responsibility for my actions. In that vein, let this child’s parents take responsibility for THEIRS. They should stand trial as accomplices to murder.

      • independant thinker

        I read in an article yesterday he stole the gun (a 22 caliber pistol) from an uncle.

      • Robert Smith

        The .22 Ruger can be found at: http://www.ruger.com/products/2245/index.html

        Goes to show that with three dead all that “stopping power” and discussion about hollow points vs. fully jacketed, etc. ain’t much but a bunch of lip flapp’n.

        With the weight of the ammo and the killing power of a .22 I’ve been a long term advocate that it is an excellent choice for defense. It is an easily affordable device that can burn a lot of ammo without breaking any banks. Practice, practice, practice, is far better than picking up a .357 and making it go bang without hitting anything.

        BTW, in “Logan’s Run” the “ray gun” was actually a High Standard .22 with a muzzle break on it.

        Rob

      • 45caliber

        Rob:

        I have the same gun myself and I like it. I saw an article by a cop one time that was discussing a “one shot kill”. You shoot once and he drops. A .22 has a 33% chance of it. So I always insist that you shoot three times with a .22.

        • Ronald R. Johnson

          Teaching people and young people for sure about guns and what they are suppose to be use for it the smart thing to do! Never had a gun lock and or gun safe because I always
          figured if someone broke in he wouldn’t wait for me to go to the gun safe try to remember the combo. [ as the guy comes through the door or window] then if i got it open have him wait for me to pull it out probably load it then figure where he is and try to aim it, as he pulls the trigger of his loaded aimed gun! No thanks, I raised two children and not once did they ever touch one of my guns with our permission, but would have shot you dead if you broke in and I wasn’t there! Let cops, Obama’s and all the above named people above have their Guards use locks and gun safes! Oh and home invaders and assorted killers love people with gun locks and gun safes!

    • 45caliber

      kategray:

      I agree. The government is tellng the parents that they must not punish their kids for anything but are responsible if the kids get into trouble.

      I know one family whose son has been into theft since he was three and into drugs since he was eight. I doubt if he’s been out of jail for longer than two months since he was twelve. His parents found out he was to come home when he was fifteen and petitioned the court to keep him on the grounds that he would steal and harm someone as soon as he was out. The judge told them that it was their responsibility if he did … but they were not to do anything to keep him from doing it. And they were right. He stole within two hours upon getting home to get enough to buy some drugs and then broke into a house to rob it, beating the elderly woman he found there. He was out of jail all of about 2 days. The judge sent him back to reform school but chewed out the parents for not stopping him. His arguement was that one of them should have stayed with the boy every moment … despite the fact that both worked full time jobs. The boy is now thirty five and still in prison.

    • Jack Betz

      These Dumb Ass libs. forget that the Japanese did Not want to hit the U.S. because they would have to contend with All the populas that has guns.

      • eddie47d

        More feel good pats on the back gentlemen? What you said makes sense but the real fact is that it is not true. After Pearl Harbour Japan had no means or method to attack the mainland USA. It never would have happened with or without guns in the home.

        • Ronald R. Johnson

          If they didn’t know about the gun they may have skipped Pearl ! and on your other comment I didn’t enjoy calling you an idiot, I just call it as I see it. Oh and I’m sorry but you wont be scr*wing me because you probably not built right, nor know how to do it proper! I bet you said that because you live in Pelosie land and ya’ll sure do strange things out there! But U are still an Idiot who if he could would take all the guns from us and you know it, but just don’t have the ba$ls to say so!

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        Although it’s true that the idea of not attacking mainland US wasn’t because of the myth of guns the American citizens had…it is also a mistatement for eddie to say ” After Pearl Harbour Japan had no means or method to attack the mainland USA. It never would have happened with or without guns in the home.”

        The Japanese had the means and the methods for both but they new they could not “sustain” said action and in fact the idea of an attack on the US mainland was never seriously considered.

        Some background: Japan did not invade Hawaii at the same time it attacked Pearl Harbor because it was counter to its goals at the time. The sole purpose of the attack was to keep the US Navy Fleet from threatening Japan’s conquest of the Philippine islands, Dutch East Indies, and other resource-rich lands south of the Japanese homeland. Any conquest and holding of the Hawaiian islands would have drained strength from this primary goal; indeed Admiral Yamamoto had to fight to get all six carriers of the Kido Butai kept on the mission as some felt they would be better used supporting the invasion forces.

        According to a study done by Japanese Navy Captain Kami Shigenori:
        To put this in a mathmatical perspective, if the Japanese fleet were to plot a course on a straight line from Yokohama to Oahu, deviating only for land obstructions, we get a distance of nearly 4,000 miles. If we assign a generous cruising speed of 15 miles per hour, our ship will take just over 11 days to reach Hawaii from Yokohama. If we need two a day, we need 22 ships heading to Hawaii at any one time to sustain the force. But wait, once they get there, they need to come back, so in actuality we’ll have 44 ships sailing to and from Hawaii at any point.

        Add to that another 2500 +- miles the the west coast…an attack on the US wasn’t an option.

      • CZ52

        No matter the actual final reason Japan never attempted to invade the US (other than a couple of Alutian islands) Admiral Yamamoto said that it would be suicide for Japan to invade the US because of the number of firearms in private hands.

  • Jesse Fell

    It’s true that guns are merely “a tool”, but they are a powerful and efficient tool. Why do thugs use guns when they rob convenience stores, rather than knives or clubs? Because guns are the best tool for the job, by far.

    Guns are also far better for offense than for defense. They favor the surprise attack, the ambush. If someone wants to shoot me in the back and take my wallet, what good is it to me that I have a handgun in my pocket — if I never even know what hits me?

    There are many practical difficulties to gun control, which everyone acknowledges. There are millions of guns out there in circulation already; many gun control proposals have amounted to nothing more than closing the barn door after the horse has gotten out.

    But the usual arguments against gun control — e.g. “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” — are patent sophistries that distract us from considering the real need — and the real difficulties — of gun control.

    • Robert Smith

      Hey Jessee, I appreciate some ideas but “gun control” as a philosophy just isn’t one of them.

      To help ME can you suggest ONE gun law that doesn’t violate the second ammendment that would have stopped the recent school shooting?

      It was ALREADY illegal for the kid to have a gun.

      It was ALREADY illegal for him to shoot someone.

      Just what “law” would have made this crime impossible?

      Rob

      • John

        In England, were firearms are almost completely illegal for most “subjects” the street gangs & thugs are using large hunting knives to commit crimes. I understand that now there is a push to make hunting knives illegal. Next I guess they’ll go after hammers, pipes, baseball bats, etc. And the senseless beat goes on——————

      • http://gravatar.com/jejonas jejonas

        The answer is simple Robert no gun control law would have made a difference.

        Let’s consider this for a moment – suppose for the last 10 years there were no guns in this country. Without this tool of destruction, this kid would have used the internet to figure out how to make a bomb using the same kind or similar crap Timothy McVeigh used. He would have walked into that school and he would have killed every kid in the room. At least with only a gun, his destruction was limited.

        If the mentally sick become bound and determined to kill, they will find a way to do it, with or without a gun.

      • Rick

        Indeed…. How many laws did this cockroach already break… How will more help?????

      • eddie47d

        Then lets do away with speed limits and have a free for all on the highway if laws don’t matter. Laws are like a fence around your house. Sure someone can jump a fence and still enter your yard yet it initially allows someone to respect the boundaries. No different with gun laws where a rational person because of those laws will think twice before they enter a school or where the owner of that premise say they are not welcomed. The big problem is there are too many scatter shot gun laws in too many jurisdictions which makes obeying those laws confusing. A uniform law is best but the rights of states will have to be entered into the equation.

      • Robert Smith

        What law would have stopped the carnage eddie?

        Please be specific.

        What law would have stopped that kid?

        Rob

      • eddie47d

        There will never be a perfect law to fit all sizes so your question can’t be specific just like a fence will give warning but it won’t keep,a determined burglar out.

      • 45caliber

        Rob: For once I agree with you.

        John: I saw a comment by one of the supervisors of Scotland Yard not long ago about guns in England. He stated that there were more guns in England today than there was before the gun ban.

        The difference, he said, was that the present guns are all automatic SKSs or AK-47s from Russia, imported by the gangs along with their drugs. Originally the guns were hunting rifles and pistols meant to protect a house.

      • eddie47d

        Americans are arming themselves with deadlier weapons also and encouraged to do so by weapon manufacturers and gun rights groups. There are always excuses to do so just like the gang member on the street. Everyone has to out best the next guy.

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        eddie, as usual, make a blanket statement without and factual support based purely on his own emotional perception. Maybe he’d like to enlighten all of us with supported facts rather than conjecture…which, by now, we all know he can’t!

      • Robert Smith

        Eddie comments: “Americans are arming themselves with deadlier weapons also and encouraged to do so by weapon manufacturers and gun rights groups.”

        Yes they certainly are. Just as Americans get bigger TVs with more inputs, bigger cars with more horsepower, and viagra. So? It’s called marketing. That’s part of what America is and an entirely different discussion than trying to figure out why kids are dying in schools from gunshots.

        As has been pointed out the three dead kids were killed with a fairly common .22 Ruger.

        Clue Eddie: It ain’t the gun that’s the problem. I failed to make a zip gun out of an old car aerial, a block of wood, some duct tape, rubber bands, but a friend of mine didn’t. We spent most of the summer shooting that thing. We bought the .22 ammo ourselves without any questions asked. Things were different then. For more ideas you can go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm

        What society needs to do is recognize what the real problems are and work on the root causes. NOBODY is doing that. It’s much easier to play gun poltics. Sad, but easier.

        Rob

      • Vicki

        Robert Smith says:

        What law would have stopped the carnage eddie?

        Please be specific.

        What law would have stopped that kid?

        I can answer that. (I bet eddie47d couldn’t but not going to wait for him)

        The answer is “The supreme law of the land. The Constitution”. Specifically the 2nd amendment to the Constitution where it says that the RIGHT of the people to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed.

        • John

          The only law that can reduce gun violence is one that would repeal all unenforceable laws about guns. The idea that a “Saturday night special” or a “small gun” or any pistol deserves to be banned or limited, is the start on the path to folly. The case in Oakland Ca, a parolee shot 4 officers with two guns in different places. By law he already was prohibited from any access to a gun, California prohibits anyone from carrying a loaded gun in a vehicle. at least 3 laws broken 4 men murdered and one suicide. What enforceable, law would you propose to stop this? Don’t say confiscate all guns or ammo! Check the tragic results in England, Canada and Australia, All guns confiscated and destroyed, no resale to anyone. Crime up 400%, English police for the first time in their history patrolling armed not with pistols but with sub-machine-guns! Those locations with very limited interference with gun ownership and usage have far lower crime rates. California rifle and pistol Association motto is “Society is safer when criminals don’t know who’s armed”!

      • CZ52

        “The idea that a “Saturday night special” or a “small gun” or any pistol deserves to be banned or limited, is the start on the path to folly.”

        As I understand it “saturday night special” originaly refered to cheaply made handguns that were more likely to blow up in the shooters face than fire a projectile. The term was co-opted by the anti-gun crowd and used to mean any of the less expensive pistols. Now the term “saturday night special” is used by the antis to mean the least expensive handguns that the working poor might actualy be able to afford. Of course if those were eliminated then the new lowest tier of handguns price wise will become the “saturday night specials”

        • John

          You mean like how the government decides that the median income in the U. S. is XXX, whatever that is anyone below that does not pay taxes, if you are right on it too bad. Now the government TRIES to be “FAIR?” the “poor?” are given a tax rebate? Rebate what they didn’t pay any tax to rebate! now the government recalculates the median income counting the “rebates” and comes up with a new higher defination of poor! until noone pays any tax and the government shuts down. I can see the government defining a $10,000 target pistol this way!

    • LAB

      Ok so you’re an idiot…getting shot in the back, or whacked in the head with a lead bar, or a rock or any type of club is exactly what cowards do! NOT GUNS idiot! Your stinkin argument is just that, argument, not based on any fact but liberal bs and total fiction! What if, said Chicago Thug decided to hold you up face to face??? HMMMM??? You could stick your idiotic hand into your pocket, seemingly to get your cash, and BLAM!!! (offensive word removed) goes down, you live and it’s all done!!! Stupid idiot!!!

      • http://www.mototcarsfinancial.com Brad

        Unfortunaely Eddie, those who use guns to kill or commit a crime don’t follow your laws or care about your fence. If law abaiding citizens can’t protect themselves from these scum bags then we as a nation are in real deep trouble. And I beleive once the government takes away our guns we will not be able to prtect our property or lives from the governement. Fences keep honest people honest and guns protect our liberty from the gonernment.

      • eddie47d

        I already implied that Brad so chill out.

    • Jesse Fell

      It’s interesting that the second amendment is the only one that is granted conditionally. The condition is: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,…”

      The amendment was written at a time when many supposed that the US would not maintain standing armies — that we would need instead only occasional, ad hoc “militias” to protect our country against foreign enemies. (The members of the militias would be armed with their own guns, not guns provided by the state.) That is the condition on which the right of the people to bear arms was granted.

      The condition not longer hold. We no longer believe that a well-regulated militia of citizen-soldiers, armed only with their own guns, would be sufficient to defend our country. We have chosen, instead, to rely of a standing army, a standing navy, and a standing air force.

      The condition no longer holding, neither does the grant of the right that depends on that condition.

      • metroman

        It was put in the Constitution to insure our freedom and protection from the Government over reaching. Go look at countries where guns are banned. Mexico is a good example: 30,000 killed by illegal fire arms, so much for banning guns. Did not are leader in his campaign say “we need a civilian security force equal too and as well funded as the military……” Can you say SS or Brown Shirts. Now we have Home Land Security, TSA, the repeal of “Posse Comitatus”, looking in our underwear when we board a plane, video camera’s at all intersections or soon to be, internet tracking, cell phone tracking, more intrusive laws and be advised you are only one mistake from going to jail. You better read Oswell’s 1984 to get the picture.

      • Jesse Fell

        Metroman, There is no evidence whatsoever to support your contention that the second amendment was put in the Constitution to prevent government overreaching. The plain sense of that document itself is against this contention. The right is granted to protect the security of the state, not to protect individuals against the state. And there is no indication that it is granted to enable an individual to protect himself.

      • A.W.

        A ‘well regulated militia’ is the only thing keeping this country somewhat free. The closet comparison to a complete gun ban would be the war on drugs. It is been extremely (not) successful in eliminating the flow of drugs into this country. Prohibition is another example. This is an old argument, a complete ban on guns will permit only criminals to own guns. Go to Chicago, Washington D.C., New York and the gun crime rate is extremely high w/the toughest gun laws in the nation. The RIGHT to protect myself & my property is a FUNDAMENTAL right of human existence. The best way to protect myself is to have a weapon (gun). The worst part are the restrictions of where I can carry it. Where CCW permits have been issued easily crime has dropped drasticly. Go figure. If I know the person I am about to rob may be carrying a weapon or have one in their house I won’t bother them.
        The lack of common sense in this country is becoming an epidemic.

      • eddie47d

        AW made a good point yet gun crime is way down in NYC which has extremely strict laws. The few weapons that do enter the city come from maverick gun runners from other states. I would agree that NYC laws give police too much power in search and seizure situations so maybe a good compromise is in order. Someone with a weapon is seldom “saved” in a robbery and quite often makes them more vulnerable to the perp. The perp can react faster than you can plain and simple. Now someone with a concealed gun could come to the aid of another person being victimized but even then most freeze up and still don’t get involved.

      • ArkansasRebel

        Your argument did not “wash” with the Supreme Court recently & it still doesn’t. The Court ruled that individuals make a militia & that individuals would have to carry their own arms to form a militia, therefore the 2nd amendment did, indeed, guarantee the individual
        right to keep arms.
        Also, while our government has violated the constitution by keeping a standing army, forbidden by the constitution, the 2nd amendment was added to guarantee the ability of private citizens to protect themselves. Not simply from crime but, perhaps more to the point, from a government which may become tyrannical & attempt to rob us of these very rights guaranteed by our constitution.
        Do not ask me to give up my rights!

      • Thor

        So….you are one of those ‘living Constitutionalists.’ I’m not and I disagree with the premise that anything addressed by the 2nd Amendment has changed. It deals with two things no one needs permission to do, now, then, at any time in history: 1) a person has a right to protect himself from government and 2) a person has a right to protect himself from others. The fact that a person has these inalienable, natural and inseparable rights is inviolable and unalterable; furthermore, it provides the basis for a third and less important caveat–a nation of such people does not need a large standing army if everyman is already armed. He can be called on to do his duty and protect the nation if need be. Reinterpret the Constitution all you want–but, it is only fair to warn you not to be among those who aim to deprive me of my rights.

        What’s more…all told there are some 3.4 million persons in uniform in the combined services. 80 million families own some 250 million firearms, etc. etc. Could be that reinterpreting the Constitution could prove problematic.

      • Michael H.

        Actually, if you were to sit down and read all of the associated papers as regards the forming of our Gov. and the reasons for our constitution and its amendments, you would learn that the main purpose of the second amendment is to protect us from our on GOV. We are a free people only as long as we have the means to preserve that freedom.Take away the second amendment and we would no doubt be a far different America by now.

      • Patriot

        Hey Jesse & others like Jesse,

        You are kidding, right? The very reason for the 2nd Amendment is to protect us from a Tyrannical government, protect our property from people that may harm us and so we can be self-sufficient and hunt if need be. At this point, our government is closer than ever to take all our rights away (tyranny is at our door step), if there are no guns allowed to anyone (than only the criminals and the police state will have them). What if every criminal knew for certain that the person in the house or business etc. could do them no harm? Just look at Chicago, one of the highest crime areas, residents had their 2nd Amend. rights taken away and now are at the mercy of gangsters with no protection, the statistics prove this does not deter crime or guns.

        We have been dumb-down over the years so that many people cannot even grow a garden or hunt to eat if they had to. If you are as concerned as I am about what is happening to our country learn these skills so that you and your family can survive and protect yourself from all enemies both domestic and aboard. Some of you people would be the first to turn to people like me in the wake of some catastrophic event.

        Please wake up before it is too late!

      • Ted Crawford

        Jesse;
        It seems our Founders disagree with you!: “Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike Citizens of other countries whose Governments are afraid to trust the people with arms”
        ” The best we can hope for, concerning the people at large, is that they be properly armed.” Alexander Hamilton
        ” That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press (Media Matters V Fox), or rights to conscience (PPACA), or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms (Gun Control)” Samual Adams
        Even pacifists Disagree with you:
        ” Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act of depriving a whole Nation of arms as the blackest” Mohandas Gandi
        Here are some who do agree with you:
        ” History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared thier own downfall by doing so” Adolph Hitler
        ” Every Communist must grasp the truth, Political Power grows out of the barrel of a gun” Mao Tse-tung

      • CZ52

        ” The few weapons that do enter the city come from maverick gun runners from other states.”

        Or much more likely from rouge cops running guns such as the ones recently busted for doing just that.

      • TML

        Jesse Fell says, “The condition is: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,…”

        Jesse Fell says, “The condition no longer holding, neither does the grant of the right that depends on that condition.”

        The Bill of Rights does not “grant” rights. It is expressly for the purpose of restraining government from violating rights which preexist and supersede man-made law by nature of their humanity.

        The well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bare arms is as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. To protect against enemies both foreign and domestic.

        For this reason, it is said; the beauty of the second amendment is that it may never be needed, until they try to take it.

        There will never be a time when the “condition” is not needed.

      • Jesse

        The evidence is in the writings of The Founders (Federalist Papers,essays,and Letters to each other.) The purposes stated are: individual protection, communities/states to protect themselves, and the people to protect themselves from and overbearing government. The hte first clause is not a clarifier, it is a separate function. The “Right of the people to keep and BEAR arms” provide the individuals to gather into militias. And no I wasn’t told that, I read it in their own words. Most of them were afraid of standing armies belonging to a central/federal government.

        • Ronald R. Johnson

          Makes sense to me and sounds right! Now who is ready to go to washington and clean house????

      • 45caliber

        Jesse:

        There is PLENTY of evidence that ALL of the first 10 amendments were placed there to prevent the feds from overreaching. That is why they were written. None of the states would approve the Constitution because they didn’t trust the feds until those amendments were added.

      • Vicki

        Jesse fell writes:

        The condition not longer hold.

        Of course the condition is still in force. see 10 USC section 311.

        The condition you claim no longer hold (bad english but I think I know what you were trying to say) is still the law.

        Now let us address the supposition that the clause you claim is a limiting condition to the exercise of the right to keep and bear arms.
        http://constitution.org/2ll/schol/2amd_grammar.htm
        Thus you see that your supposed limiting condition is not actually a limit on the right.

      • Vicki

        Eddie47d writes

        Someone with a weapon is seldom “saved” in a robbery and quite often makes them more vulnerable to the perp. The perp can react faster than you can plain and simple. Now someone with a concealed gun could come to the aid of another person being victimized but even then most freeze up and still don’t get involved.

        Boy how many false assertions and innuendo can eddie stuff into one paragraph.
        I shall counter each of them
        1 – 2+ MILLION people every year are “saved” from various crimes including robbery.
        2 – innuendo. a perp MIGHT be able to react faster than me but I guarantee that my action will be faster than his reaction.
        3 – 2+ milion people every year are ‘saved’ from various crimes including robbery and they don’t freeze up cause, unlike the disarmed subjects around them, these people have the best tool for self and community defense.

        And just for fun here is a cite to backup 2 of my assertions
        https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf (Search for “defensive gun use”)

      • CZ52

        Don’t confuse eddie with facts Vicki it will give him a headache.

    • Patriot1776

      Would this young man been willing to do what he did if guns had not been banned from the school campus. It is one thing to walk into any area knowing that no one there is armed for self defense. It is another to commit this same act knowing that the others are armed as well. How brave do you have to be to shoot at unarmed students? Would any of the tragic school shootings have occured if the ones being shot at would have been allowed to carry and protect themselves?

      • Jim

        You are right on with this. Most anti-gunners want all guns banned. Okay, how is that supposed to happen? Well, go out to all guns purchased and collect them. Well lets see about this. All guns purchased have a paper trail. True – if they were purchaed by a legal citizen. Most criminals and illegals don’t purchase their guns legally. Thjey steal them, purchase them from black markets, and a lot of those are smuggled in. If all legal guns are confiscated them only criminals will have them. Those and the police. 8 minutes is the average response time for police to respond to a 911 call – if you live in a large city. How long does it take a criminal to walk up to you, pull out a gun, or a knife, or a rock to hit you with, or a club, and kill you. Not more then 8 minutes I’ll bet. People kill people, not tools like a gun, knife, club, rock, car, plane, chainsaw, screw driver, hammer, limb, wire, any sharp instrument, any heavy instrument, etc. Anything can be used to kill someone. It takes a person behind that instrument to kill someone. And when did ‘it’s illegal to kill someone’ stop a criminal from committing murder. I’ll protect myself and my family thank you.

      • eddie47d

        So Patriot thinks high school students should all be armed. Now that is some cuckoo thinking especially in an alternative school where kids don’t function normally to begin with. “Now Johnny pay attention to the lesson and stop playing with that gun” Oh ya baby let’s have more guns in school!

      • Brad

        Eddie,

        Man you need a new set of reading glasses, patriot never said to arm all kids, it was a what if senario. But we all know what happens when a criminal ambushes police officers and it has happened on several occations. In this case eddie, you are dead wrong, would the kid had second thoughts if he knew others were armed, maybe maybe not. When he’s dealing with known unarmed kids the shooter feels they are fearless and in control until confronted by another who is armed know they are in fear of their own life. Eddie, please explain to us all what law would have prevented this kid from bringing said gun to school and shooting 5 fellow students…

      • Brad

        By the way, we already know who’s coo coo and it’s you Eddie, maybe you need to get your Alzheimers meds checked.

      • eddie47d

        Why are saying Patriot didn’t say something Brad when that is exactly what he said and in about three different ways. You failed again Brad and will have to take up the cuckoo torch or go back to remedial.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        eddie don’t need new glases he knew exactly what he said and its inaccuracy.

    • Dntmkmecmoverther

      @Jesse Fell: The 2nd Amendment is a protection against gun control. If you don’t grasp that truth and fact, then you miss why all of this news is BAD news. “The Congress shall make no law infringing…” What part of that phrase is so hard to understand for any English speaking citizen (and legislator?). Indeed, the behavior of people is the issue; not guns. Guns are simply one of the means of carrying out evil by a trite few; however, for those of us with a will for doing good, a sidearm is a great deterrent to those who think like young Mr. Lane. The best gun control is a steady hand while you hold your breath ans squeeze slowly.

    • http://gravatar.com/votedagainstcarter votedagainstcarter

      jesse fell,..

      So you have your rectalhat ON TIGHT as usual.

      You also went to the obama school of “straw-man” arguing I see.

      Silly libratard

    • Michael

      Jesse;
      Not sure where you live, but I live a safe distance from a fairly large city and according to the local newspaper, over 70% of the violent crimes committed there are done with either baseball bats (or other clubs), or knives. Yes, guns are used for the remainder, but seldom is a pistol the perp’s choice. They seem to like shotguns more than either pistols or the dreaded assault rifle.

    • 45caliber

      Jesse:

      Do you want a gun law that will stop most violent crime?

      It is easy.

      Just make it manditory that all adults carry one at all times. Make it manditory (as Israel does) that any group of 8 or more people (counting kids) has at least one armed adult.

      Keep in mind that Israel has less gun crime and less people killed per thousand than is done in the more “civilized” countries even when you count those killed by terrorists.

      There is one town in the US (I believe in NC) that requires all homes to have at least one gun. The only “crime” they had a couple of years ago for an entire year were two speeding tickets and one person running a stop sign.

      Ready to start lobbying to require all to carry?

      • CZ52

        I believe the town you are refering to is Kennesaw Georgia.

      • 45caliber

        CZ:

        You are correct. I couldn’t remember the name.

    • Meteorlady

      Of course you do know that all the crooks and thugs out there would gladly support gun control. Their guns are not legal, while mine are. They aren’t required to fill out forms, while I am. They aren’t required to get a concealed carry permit, while I am. So what sense is it to control guns that are bought and sold by responsible people like me? I feel good about being better prepared to protect myself from the people that illegally buy and sell unregistered guns.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        You said this better than I could have. I agree with you.

    • Bill

      yea, and after we get gun control we got to get knife control, and rock control and poison control and all of the other controls. (cant forget about whips either) or ropes that could be used to control those who want control.

  • nick beck

    sc is spot on ——dont ever let them take away the 2nd—if you do then you deserve the results

  • John

    15 LEADING CAUSES OF DEATH IN THE USA 2011 – Source CDC – note Homicide is .7%

    Cause
    Percent of Total
    1. Diseases of the heart 28.5
    2. Malignant tumors 22.8
    3. Cerebrovascular diseases 6.7
    4. Chronic lower respiratory diseases 5.1
    5. Accidents (unintentional injuries) 4.4
    6. Diabetes mellitus 3.0
    7. Influenza and pneumonia 2.7
    8. Alzheimer’s disease 2.4
    9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis 1.7
    10. Septicemia (blood poisoning) 1.4
    11. Suicide 1.3
    12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis 1.1
    13. Primary hypertension and hypertensive renal disease 0.8
    14. Parkinson’s disease (tied) 0.7
    15. Homicide (tied) 0.7
    Source: CDC/NHS, National Vital Statistics System

    • LAB

      SMOOTH!!! Nothing like the facts to blow a hole into the argument of anti-gun liberatards! Thank you for your insight and TRUTHS!

      • John

        Facts and the truth are inconvenient things for those that would control every aspect of our lives and deny our God given Freedoms! 250 days until the election. Educate your friends, neighbors and co-workers, make sure they are registered to vote and help them get to the polls Nov. 6th if necessary. If each of us brings just ONE new conservative to vote we will double our strength!

    • Robert Smith

      With all these ailments that can respond to treatment WHY is the extreme right DENYING universal health care?

      Folks will die a real death, but they have their guns. I say let ‘em keep their guns but save some lives with universal health care.

      Rob

      • Patriot1776

        I don’t think anyone on the right is opposed to anyone having health care. What I am opposed to is providing to those who aren’t willing to attempt to do for themselves. I have worked all of my life and obtained jobs that offered health care as a benefit. It was important to me to have this for my family, so I worked to get it. Why should I work to get this for my family and then also have to provide it for the half of this country that chooses not to work?

      • s c

        Stick to the topic, comrade ‘r.’ What is it with utopians and their INABILITY to deal with specific issues? Let me guess. In your world 1 + 1 = 57. Right? Take a number. Sit down, and shut the ____ up, comrade. Can you EVER limit yourself to one topic at a time, or is your universal utopian contract that strong? “Programmed” is your middle name. DUH!

      • Doc Sarvis

        Patriot1776,
        All of us who do have health insurance and/or pay for our own health care have paid for other’s health care through higher fees/premiums. We have financed health care for those who can’t or will not pay for themseleves through the industry’s shifting the burden on us payers. It makes sense for all to take responsibility for their own health care and even out the costs.

      • Warrior

        I reasd on page 1133 of the “unaffordable oblamacare act” that “end of live” counseling shall include a ” free” one shot device, paid for by your insurer, to assist with ensuring every persons right to use firearms at least one time during the course of their existence..

      • http://gravatar.com/votedagainstcarter votedagainstcarter

        robbert smith,…

        So you have your rectalhat ON TIGHT as usual.

        You also went to the obama school of “straw-man” arguing I see.

        Silly libratard

      • Patriot

        Rob,

        You think people are dying now, wait until the Government takes over healthcare! BTW the folks that cannot afford coverage have it now, it is called Medicaid, oh btw that is bankrupt too! What a concept this free coverage. Here is an insight for you and others like you, anything the government wants to provide is the exact opposite of what is publicly intended, the facts are indisputable.

        So healthcare is about keeping the majority unhealthy treating the symptoms and not the cause. We need to band together and solve our problems and STOP looking to the government for help, the people that have over the years (Russia, Germany, China, Brazil, etc. etc.) history is littered with examples with millions dying.

        Wake up from your slumber!

      • 45caliber

        warrior:

        It is included in Oblamacare – but … it is to be used by some government official to “help” you commit suicide whether you want to do it or not. After all, they need to save money somewhere …

      • Meteorlady

        Universal health care…. that’s why it take me 22 days to get into see my general practice doctor now? That’s why there are less and less general practitioners graduating and more and more specialists? That’s why most all doctors in my county are no longer accepting any new medicare/medicaid patients? That’s why prescription drugs prices have tripled since the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit? That’s why my mother is paying more and more out of her meager social security check toward medicare which she already paid into while working? That’s why three of my friends went into the VA for relatively minor surgery and died as as result of infections? You mean that universal health care?

      • Bill

        rob, look at the list of 15 causes of death. We have universal health care now. Hospitals and clinics are dictated how to treat people. The health care industry is the 2nd. leading cause of death in the US. (Source-The doctors own JAMA, look it up its there) and you’re telling us we need more? We need more people taking responsibility for their own health and less of peoples money going to those who don’t take care of them self. And don’t tell me that they don’t have the money. Stop drinking the booze, smoking the 400 poisons in cigarettes, taking the poison medicines, eating the garbage in the “food” stores.and engaging in dangerous life threatening behaviors. I refuse to be responsible for those who take no responsibility for them self. And will fight to the core those that force me to do such an act.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis:
        U.S. 65%
        England 46%
        Canada 42%

        Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months:
        U.S. 93%
        England 15%
        Canada 43%
        Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it within six months:
        U.S. 90%
        England 15%
        Canada 43%

        Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within one month:
        U.S. 77%
        England 40%
        Canada 43%

        Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million people:
        U.S. 71
        England 14
        Canada 18
        Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in “excellent health”:
        U.S. 12%
        England 2%
        Canada 6%

        And now for the last statistic :

        National Health Insurance?
        U.S. NO
        England YES
        Canada YES

      • Robert Smith

        Patriot asks: “Why should I work to get this for my family and then also have to provide it for the half of this country that chooses not to work?”

        Not so many “choose” to be out of work. Many are working two part time jobs because the system is rigged that way. Particularly in the food service industry it’s only a small percentage who enjoy full time jobs. The rest are part-timers.

        And, with corporations sending so many jobs overseas many of our skilled folks are out of jobs.

        Rob

        • John

          YES! DEFINATELY! take the best healthcare system in the world not perfect but far better than anything else avaible to the general population of any other country! Now we are supposed to remake our excellent health care system into a poor copy of the FAILED SYSYEMS OF Great Briton, Frrance, Germany, Canada, and Austraila??????????? HAVE you bothered to chech the wait times for appointments, procedures, or surguries? How about the avaiability of these and medicines to ease the pain of the terminally Ill? the survival rates for people with illnesses in general and newborns. On all these things the U.S. health care system out performs all the others, and cancer and aids survival rates also are better here, Now if you insist on being cared for by the NANNY STATE, expect to find the U.S. in the place of the Whermacht Republic where the German Mark,their equvalent to our dollar was so devalued that 300 million marks could onlybuy a loaf of bread. Greece tried this experment and their economy has colllapsed, there is rioting and civil unrest and total anarchy! there are no more public utuiities, government is unable to restore order. Tthose of you who count on the government for everything are going to be in deep doo doo when the government checks stop comming and you have to barter what you have to try to survive that DAY!

    • Warrior

      Hey, wait a minute. What about diseases caused by “lack of contraception”?

    • Rifleman

      Excellent John! Liberal idiots never let facts get in the way of their ranting. Since Obama began squatting in the peoples house in Washington gun sales have soared. Wonder why?
      Keep up the good fight. Thanks again for the good input.

    • eddie47d

      There is no connection between those diseases and school shootings or even guns itself. A very false comparison. People choke on sandwiches and die also but even that has nothing to do with gun crime or gun deaths. You’re really grabbing at straws on that one.

      • Brad

        So Eddie, on a comparison scale, what would be the percentage of US deaths related to guns, that includes homicides, accidents, intervention, suicides and unkowns, what’s the percentage? let’s look at it logically, we have 303 million people, ruffly, and on average approximately 30k gun related deaths annually, that equals 0.01% of our national population and on average 1500 to 1600 gun related deaths of children between 0-17 years of age. Most of those are related to suicides, accidents and homicides. Eddie get your facts strait before posting, I’m getting tired of correcting you all the time.

      • eddie47d

        You’re not correcting a thing I said Brad. You’ve got an ego as big as the Hoover Dam and an immagination to match.

      • Robert Smith

        Eddie says: “People choke on sandwiches and die….”

        If Mama Cass has shared her sandwitch with Karen Carpenter they would both be alive today.

        Rob

    • 45caliber

      John:

      Does “accidents” include cars? I thought that was higher ….

  • metroman

    I would support a Constitutional Amendment If they (government) can guarantee me that no one will have guns including law enforcement; after all if guns are banned why would law enforcement need guns. Good luck on that one.

    • John

      Guns in private possession are banned in England. The street thugs and gangs use large hunting knives that are just as lethal as a firearm. Now there is talk of banning hunting knives. How would a citizen, or a police officer defend against multiple assailants with large knives – if ALL guns were banned? By the way, do you honestly believe criminals wouldn’t still obtain guns, no matter how strictly a ban is enforced?

    • eddie47d

      Whether for good or for bad guns/weapons are used for “problem” solving. They solve problems and they create problems and no one really wants to SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

      • Meteorlady

        The problem is a liberal society that believes these people can be rehabilitated and put back on the streets. The problem is letting more and more foreign nationals into this country that come from countries that have violent ways of solving their problems, a population explosion and a bad economy. The immigration and economy is totally government induced.

        Here’s is an example: I live in a community with 4500 people, close to a small town. My county’s population is about 55,000. Because we are rural, the drug dealers and meth cookers are moving out into the rural areas, but that is really our only crime. My community is a private homeowners association and we are mostly white (that’s not being bigoted, it’s just stating a fact). We can head to the store and leave our garage doors open or our house unlocked and nothing happens but maybe an animal or two inside. Then one day the orchard owner, adjacent to our community, started hiring illegals and we started to see home burglaries and car thefts, plus a couple of murders here and there.

        I go to Dallas, where there are a ton of minorities and people on welfare, and the crime rates are huge. It’s the “too many rats in the cage theory” that makes this so. I don’t feel safe there and I carry a gun for protection when I have to go there. I have had to pull it out once and it was scary… but it worked to protect me and I didn’t even have to fire a short. Just point and they ran. I don’t go there anymore which is sad and a loss of business to business owners where I used to shop.

    • 45caliber

      John:

      The police in England now go armed. And knives ARE banned in England. The only knives you can own must be kept in the house and cannot be carried at all. So are fingernail clippers (sharp edge and point) and many other items. In fact, at least one man in London has been arrested for carrying an umbrella – it had a sharp (not real sharp) point on the top. Another has been arrested for carrying a cane since it was made strong enough to be used as a club.

      • John

        Well that sure sounds like they are solving the crime problem – just make all “subjects” defenseless to save potential injury to the criminals. Neat solution. You know, I’ve worked with and around firearms for over 40 years and do not know one person that has been injured or killed with a firearm. I must be hanging around the wrong people – ones that obey the damn law!

    • TML

      Metroman says, “I would support a Constitutional Amendment If they (government) can guarantee me that no one will have guns including law enforcement; after all if guns are banned why would law enforcement need guns. Good luck on that one.”

      In a perfect world, you can wish that such technology was never invented. And I would imagine that is the thought process of those who are for such gun control measures or even removing the Second Amendment. But it’s not a perfect world, and guns were invented. You will never get rid of guns… the more you ban them the more they manufacture and distribution of them will go underground and into black market. Then who has all the guns? The only thing gun bans and laws do is disarm the honest law abiding citizen, leaving the criminal with all the weapons. Criminals don’t care about your bans and your laws… that’s what makes them criminals. And by disarming citizens, you only increase the confidence by which a criminal may attack a person.

      “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” – Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria

      Interesting that shootings such as the one in the article always take place where guns are banned. i.e. a school… where they know, no one else will have a gun. You don’t see anyone going nuts and try to shoot everyone at a gun range, do you? Nope… and there is a reason for that. And that reason must be protected and engouraged by honest, responsible law abiding citizens of the United States

  • Alex

    Another tragedy courtesy of our “Well-Regulated Militia”

    Wayne Lapierre and his NRA Flying Monkeys LOVE it when the blood of our children flows down our gutters—to them, our children’s blood smells like “Freedom”.

    • WilliamWallace

      The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them. -Thomas Jefferson

    • WilliamWallace

      Alex you should move to another country. One in which Nanny will make sure nothing ever happens to her precious Alex.

    • eddie47d

      Don’t kid yourself William Wallace gun deaths are a bonanza for gun dealers. The more killings the better their profits and that is a fact you can take to the bank.

      • Brad

        Sorry Eddie,

        You can thank Ohmama and his communist Rats for the continued sales of guns and ammo to law abiding citizens.

      • CZ52

        “The more killings the better their profits and that is a fact you can take to the bank.”

        Proof eddie proof.

      • CZ52

        I am supprised it took eddie this long to try and place the blame on gun dealers.

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        eddie says “gun deaths are a bonanza for gun dealers”…off the cuff comment but not unexpected just like everything else eddie spews on a daily basis.

        eddie don’t need no facts because he believes “opinions” are fact, especially when they are his.
        He just can’t be fixed because his if “foevah”!
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6wbsGx9qw

      • eddie47d

        Just stating the facts which you all ignore anyway to suit your fantasies. After every school killing or riot or some major incident whether an individual (you) is involved or not gun sales go through the roof. Been going on for several years now or don’t you read the reports/news after the fact.

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        eddie, if you state a fact it’s by accident and you “NEVER EVER ” support your facts with anything more than your opinion and what you absorb from the erroneous Brady/Bloomberg mis-information media program.

        • John

          There are none soooo blind as those who WILL NOT SEE!!!!! Check I was in Florida in the 1990′s the newspapers were afire as Florida was going to eliminate some of their gun laws, SHOOTOUT AT THE OK CORRAL was the headline if these passed, We flew intro Miami and called our step daughter to come and see us there, she was in Fort Lauderdale, and said they would not come to Miami it was too dangerous. he legislation passed there was an immediate drop in gun related crime, as criminals realized they might face ARMED opponents, rather then unarmed victims! This year many people seeing the forces pushing for more restrictive gun laws, pushed the sales of guns to new records and as criminals saw these reports crime went down. Check England’s crime reports since confiscation of all guns, it’s up 400% now they are talking about banning knives with points and the British are saying what’s next ? Rocks!

      • Buster the Anatolian

        “Just stating the facts which you all ignore anyway to suit your fantasies. After every school killing or riot or some major incident whether an individual (you) is involved or not gun sales go through the roof. Been going on for several years now or don’t you read the reports/news after the fact.”

        Proof eddie give proof. If you cannot/will not we know your only “proof” is your over active imigination.

        • Ronald R. Johnson

          eddie47d you better be more careful seems another person has your number too, so wont be long before everyone knows about you!

      • eddie47d

        Don’t mind Jeff he has been saying the same thing for over 2 years now and is soooo jealous. He can’t stand the competition either.

    • securityman

      Alex, you are an idiot!!!!!!!!

    • Meteorlady

      And you love it when 130 LB women like me are accosted and raped and/or murdered in parking lots in metropolitan areas right? People like you are sick… you use one single example of a child that should have been institutionalized by his parents to make your argument. I find it insulting and stupid……

      If one single teacher in that school had been allowed to carry, maybe they could have stopped it – did that every occur to you? Oh, wait – you don’t think that far or look at things logically…..

    • Smithkowitz

      Alex, do you really believe what you are saying? How are those who support the 2nd Amendment responsible for these deaths? There is nothing in the 2nd Amendment about committing cold blooded murder . . . . . where do you say that written?

      • John

        They see what they want to see ,and believe what they want to believe. Don’t try to confuse them with the facts, their “minds” are made up, There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.

      • Ronald R. Johnson

        Alex sounds as crazy as eddie47d and sounds perfect to sit on Obama’s other knee and together all of them can try to find a way to get all the guns! What a bunch of nuts!

  • Martti Putkonen

    Diseases of the heart are number one. The obvious cure is to make butter illegal. We could save hundreds of thousands. Or maybe a law could be passed making employers dispense anti cholesterol drugs. Pastries often have extra butter added just to entice people to consume more of this poisonous product of cows. Sometimes the package even says “Made with real butter” How brazen is that?

    How is this different from the claim that tobacco folks add nicotine?

  • Vicky

    What don’t these bozos understand about criminals? They are breaking the law. Whether it is possessing an illegal gun or taking another’s life, it is criminal.
    If guns were illegal, only the criminals will have guns.
    No thank you, sir.

    • eddie47d

      Sure God and morals should be in our lives and more parental control over THEMSELVES and their children are in order. Whether Liberal or Conservative a family that is loving and affectionate will have a better chance in bringing up decent kids. If you must have a weapon in your house then the utmost respect must be given to that weapon and the safety of others.

      • Ted Crawford

        It’s a very, very, very rare occasion when you and I agree Eddie! On this one you are 150% correct! Good post.

      • Brad

        As Ted stated Eddie, I also agree with your post.

      • Meteorlady

        In this you are correct. Where I live a lot of children are taught to shoot at an early age. They are taught respect for the firearm and attend firearm safety classes regularly. Mostly we hunt with our guns, but defense is getting more and more serious as the population grows in this country.

  • jdub

    Grieving parent: Dear God how could you let this terrible school tragedy happen?

    God: Sorry, but I’m not allowed in schools.

    • Howard

      The truth is a strong thing. How can our children learn the difference between right and wrong, when the fundamental laws that are set down,The Ten Commandments, are forbidden to be taught in our schools. When you take God, the good, out; you let the Devil, the bad, in.

    • Jimmy

      jdub…You nailed it, right on target!

      • Ronald R. Johnson

        And Obama wont even let MO Hamind in YET! As soon as this country let the Idiots we elected take god out of schools it’s been all down hill ever since! Next Obama and Hillery will get that U N Treaty signed then we lose our guns followed by our freedom!

        I also think this country was founded with the thought that if you wanted religion you could have and if your neighbor wanted a different one he to could have his and that the government would stay out of having a say about who had what religion, but no where do i see or believe this country was founded to not believe in god or to force god out! Those that love him can and those that are so stupid that they don’t can be so stupid if they wish, but not deprive others of having god in our lives and government!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000182806261 Larry Kemp

    Let those who are removing GOD from our lives to please stop. If GOD was in our lives maybe children shooting children would not happen and that means knives, hatchets, clubs and anything that could be used to kill people. I guess that means every thing that could be used as a weapon.

    • TML

      “If GOD was in our lives maybe children shooting children would not happen”

      I guess Cain and Able didn’t get that memo

      • Robert Smith

        Did that there brutal christian god use any guns when he flooded the world and killed everyone except Noah and his kin?

        Did he have a “near extermination” lisence for humanity?

        Rob

      • Smithkowitz

        Good one, I like it a lot!

      • TML

        Robert Smith says, “Did that there brutal christian god use any guns when he flooded the world and killed everyone except Noah and his kin?
        Did he have a “near extermination” lisence for humanity?”

        I’m not sure of the context of your reply… but not quite…

        Although slightly off topic; the true documented reasons for ‘Noah’s flood’ are depicted in the book of Enoch… (mentioned twice in the canonized bible; Genesis, seventh from the generation of Adam, and not mentioned again until the final book of the Old Testament, Jude) … according to the book of Enoch, the flood was a sentence of a ‘license’ to kill the ‘men of old, the men of renown’. who where children of the 200 watchers (Grigori) (The fallen Arc Angels) sent by God to watch over mankind, led by the famous “Satan” (presumed as Sêmîazâz)… and all of whom sinned by taking the daughters of men from which they choose and teaching them secrets of the universe. Not a near extermination, or even global, license against humanity.

        This book also foretells of the Elect One (Christ)

        Just thought it interesting to note
        http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe009.htm

  • phoenix

    i support second amendment rights. i’m not a strict liberal or a strict conservative. but the discussion here could definitely improve if you guys stopped using terms like “liberal idiots.” it doesn’t help.

    • 45caliber

      phoenix:

      The problem is that there REALLY ARE liberal idiots! (And conservative ones for that matter.)

  • Zed

    I think your comment about blaming General Motors for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne is particularly relevant – since she died in a Lincoln.

    • Jim S

      Sorry Zed. But she died in Teddy’s Oldsmobile, which was a GM product.

      • Zed

        Damn, I was going to correct my post before someone else did.
        You’re right.
        The artists conceptions at the time depicted a Lincoln, and I made the mistake to believing them.
        That’s what I get for believing the news media!

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.ritenour John Ritenour

    The Leftists aka Statists, have predictably exploited this tragedy for their own vile ends. This young person broke numerous laws designed to stop this sort of incident. The laws didn’t work because he chose not to obey them. The issue here isn’t firearms – it is the lack of moral clarity displayed by this young man that murder is just plain wrong. But this stems from a far greater problem. We have decided that moral absolutes in this country are wrong. People routinely lie, cheat, & steal – and believe it is alight because they didn’t get caught. But it is still wrong. Our nation has embraced a culture of death – and we wonder why people continue to murder others? Until we return to a clear cut sense of right & wrong, and teach moral absolutes, we can expect this kind of behavior to only increase. By the way – a great source of moral absolutes is a book many of us need sorely to read – the Bible – the word of the one true God.

    • 45caliber

      During my short term as a prison guard, one thing really stood out to me. All of them, adults and teens, believe that EVERYONE does the same thing they do. The only difference is that they were caught and you haven’t been – yet. They are simply incapible of understanding that people just don’t do those things.

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.ritenour John Ritenour

    For those of you who want to completely ban guns (for civilians) consider the following:
    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, & Explosives (BATFE) estimates that there are approximately 280,000,000 (or more) firearms in the hands of private citizens in the United States. Good luck trying to round then all up or remove them from the hands of law abiding citizens. The last time a government on the North American Continent tried to disarm Americans wholesale was April 19, 1775. The British marched on the Massachusetts Towns of Concord & Lexington. Their intent was to seize to colonists’ Militia supplies aka their firearms. That lead to “shot heard round the world” and eventually to American Revolution. Just something to think about.

  • Tabitha Giedd Tomlinson Bishop

    I guess you could say I’m a guntooting kinda girl. I don’t think guns hurt people, I think people hurt people….. That’s the way it’s always been you take the gun out of the equation you’ll have knives or worse.

    that’s my feeling on it!!!
    Sincerely,

    Tab

  • Tabitha Giedd Tomlinson Bishop

    Guns don’t hurt people, people hurt people…. That’s way its always been. You take Guns out of the equation and you will just have people hurting people w/knives or worse.

    That’s my take on it.

    Sincerely,

    Tab

    • http://www.rsdcoachlive.com Tabitha Giedd Tomlinson Bishop

      Sorry I didn’t know it published all 3 of my comments cuz it looked like it was stuck the whole time…

      Sincerely,

      Tab

    • Ted Crawford

      This simple fact that Progressives continue to belittle has been known for Thousands of years! ” …quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum ast” [" A sword never kills anybody, it's a tool in the killers hand" ] (Lucius Annaeus) Seneca “The Younger (ca 4 BC-65 AD)

    • http://www.mototcarsfinancial.com Brad

      no you take gun rights away from the citizens and the only ones with the guns will be the criminals, just as you have in MI and IL

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000182806261 Larry Kemp

    read the comments at the end of this artical,

  • jopa

    They should just ban Retardicans.Stupidity is what really kills people and Rick Santorum doesnt want anyone to go to college and his followers in the Retardican party will just remain stupid.There are a lot of cases of mental disorders also involved in these shootings and the retardicans are against any health plan so they will also remain to be sickos and have guns where as the educated Liberals will do just fine with their guns and ammo.

    • Ted Crawford

      Thank you Comrade, now please let the adults talk!

    • 45caliber

      jopa:

      Thank you for proving your own point.

    • Meteorlady

      Oh friggin grow up. I’m sick of you advocating that my hard earned money go to people that consciously didn’t take advantage of the public education I paid for. Or that they consciously didn’t choose the right path in life. I didn’t have a say in their decisions and I don’t personally feel responsible for them.

      Funny most Park Rangers put up signs not to feed the animals because they will become dependent on humans for their livelihood, but the government feels it’s OK to feed the people in order to control them…..

    • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

      Attention…note that jopa only posts his/her comments just for the “thrill” he/she gets from the responses…nothing more.

  • http://www.rsdcoachlive.com Tabitha Giedd Tomlinson Bishop

    Not sure why this isn’t publishing??? But I agree w/ everything u say… I put a lot more last time. But it wont take it.

    • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

      Tabitha, don’t be deterred, the website is experiencing “growing pains” from their upgrade.

      See the statement in red just above the “reply” box.

  • Dave

    Who specifically has called for bans since this high school shooting. I think it is a minimal number of people and it is getting y’all riled up.
    I lean centrist, wait, that would be standing straight up.
    I have three guns, all for different things. Haven’t gotten a concealed permit, yet.
    The likely hood of me being caught unguarded if someone wanted something from me? High.
    If some deranged character wants something they are going to get it.
    I might be able to inflict some modicum of defense, since I have high blood pressure my adrenalin gets me supercharged sometimes. That or the coffee. I would probably over react. If I HAD a gun on me, I might become dangerous.
    No defense if caught by surprise.
    To go around planning for such an event would take a lot of time out of also pursuing happiness.

  • K. Phillips

    I personally did not own guns until six months ago. I now shoot at a range, signed up for concealed weapons training, belong to a gun organization and stand on my rights under the second amendment…Why the change? Look at where we’re heading!

    • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

      K. Phillips…kudos to you… :)

  • http://google john p.

    these politician idiots are always blaming the guns and privet citizens .

    that never broken the law they want to take there guns . where they should
    go after the gangs and the drugs . and make laws for kids that have hand
    guns and broken the law . put them away for along time . but
    don’t make laws that hurt the good citizens be cause of kids and gangs .
    don’t penalize me or other good citizens or we will vote you political idiots
    out of office .stop penalizing everyone because of a few .

    • 45caliber

      john p.”

      The gangs, etc. do not threaten the politicians. It is the private citizens they worry about since it will be the private citizens who will resist whatever the polticians want to do to give themselves more power. Therefore, they want to disarm the citizens. In fact, by leaving the criminals alone they can use the excuse of stopping the criminals as a reason to disarm the good people. Take a good look at England as a good bad example.

  • Average Joe

    The police will always be there in minutes…when seconds count.

    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may
    have to back up his acts with his life.
    Robert A.
    Heinlein

    A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ——————————

    In 1911,

    Turkey established gun control. >From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ——————————

    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
    ——————————

    China established gun control in 1935. >From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ——————————

    Guatemala established gun control in 1964. >From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    —- ————- ————-

    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ——————————

    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    —————————–

    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

    ——————————

    You won’t see this data on the

    US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

    Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

    Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late!

    The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

    With guns, we are ‘citizens’. Without them, we are ‘subjects’.

    During WW II the Japanese decided not to invade

    America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

    If you value your freedom, please spread this anti gun-control message to all of your friends.

    The purpose of fighting is to win.
    There is no possible victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain.

    All else is supplemental.

    SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
    SWITZERLAND ‘S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.

    As passed by the Congress:

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    The statement: “A well-regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state,”
    is often misunderstood to mean that you need to be in a militia in order to own firearms. Well, point in-fact, every male of draft age who is of sound body and mind is considered a member of the “unorganized militia” according to the law, but that’s irrelevant, because the second statement:
    “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
    is the important part. This statement is the crux of the amendment and ensures that the individual right to bear arms is not infringed upon. Now, the way this sentence is constructed (in total), the right of the people allows for the well-regulated militia. The militia is a byproduct of the right to bear arms, not a prerequisite. Here is the grammatical break down from the prof:
    [ Copperud:] The words “A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,” contrary to the interpretation cited in your letter of July 26, 1991, constitute a present participle, rather than a clause. It is used as an adjective, modifying ” militia,” which is followed by the main clause of the sentence (subject “the right,” verb “shall”). The right to keep and bear arms is asserted as essential for maintaining a militia.
    In reply to your numbered questions:
    [Schulman: (1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep and bear arms solely to "a well-regulated militia"?;]
    [ Copperud:] (1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by others than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect to a right of the people.
    [Schulman: (2) Is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" granted by the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a preexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state that such right "shall not be infringed"?;]
    [ Copperud:] (2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence is assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be preserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia.
    [Schulman: (3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms conditioned upon whether or not a well-regulated militia is, in fact, necessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not existing, is the statement "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" null and void?;]
    [ Copperud:] (3) No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence of a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the right to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated militia as requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence.
    [Schulman: (4) Does the clause "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," grant a right to the government to place conditions on the "right of the people to keep and bear arms," or is such right deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?;]
    [ Copperud:] (4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as previously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the militia.
    [Schulman: (5) Which of the following does the phrase " well-regulated militia" mean: "well-equipped," "well-organized," "well-drilled," "well-educated," or "subject to regulations of a superior authority"?]
    [ Copperud:] (5) The phrase means “subject to regulations of a superior authority”; this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian control over the military.
    [Schulman: If at all possible, I would ask you to take into account the changed meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written two-hundred years ago, but not to take into account historical interpretations of the intents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated.]
    [ Copperud:] To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the meaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the amendment. If it were written today, it might be put: “Since a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.”
    [Schulman:] As a “scientific control” on this analysis, I would also appreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second Amendment to the following sentence,
    “A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed.”
    My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,
    (1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence, and the way the words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment’s sentence?; and
    (2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict “the right of the people to keep and read Books” only to “a well-educated electorate” – for example, registered voters with a high-school diploma?]
    [ Copperud:] (1) Your “scientific control” sentence precisely parallels the amendment in grammatical structure.
    (2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the possibility of a restricted interpretation.
    Got it? Good.

    • truthfulster@ymail.com

      What you say may be well and good but the fact is when the revolutionary war was over and the Constitution written everyone still had their guns and NO PERMIT was needed. All this permit garbage started when the liberals made J. McCarthy look like a nut when all the time he new what was to come.

      • Average Joe

        There is nothing in my post… other than pure unadulterated…. facts.
        I’m not sure what your argument is ( and quite frankly, I don’t think you do either).
        Either put up something to refute what I posted…or crawl back under a rock. A few more FACTS:
        The Constitution is still in effect…the Second Amendment is still in place…and still holds the same meaning as it did when written. Short of a Constitutional Amendment repealing the Second Amendment…I am afraid that your personal opinion…doesn’t matter.
        Good Day

      • Dennis48e

        “Either put up something to refute what I posted…or crawl back under a rock. A few more FACTS:”

        You need to either retake reading and comprehension or crawl under your own rock. Truthfulster said nothing to dispute what you said he made an ADDITIONAL POINT that you ignored in your overly long post.

    • 45caliber

      Joe:

      One of the big arguments now is that the 2nd Amendment and the Founding Fathers didn’t intend for us to have guns equal to those the military used.

      They are right. The citizens of the Revolutionary period had BETTER guns than the military did. The military used muskets which usually had an accurate range of about ten feet. The civilians had rifles, accurate to more than a hundred yards.

  • Patriot

    Here is the Liberal-Progessive mind at work, lets’ say that all teachers and school adminstators had guns in the unlikely event of a serious threat. Those same teachers who are responsible and law abidding citizens would probaly or might use the gun to kill their students. See how stupid this thinking is!

  • truthfulster@ymail.com

    I’m now 59 with many different ailments the worst being Musculer Dystophy. I am not the same man I used to be and can’t protect myself and my loved ones like I used to. This country and the entire word is becoming much more dangerous then before and I’m sorry to say will be getting worse especially if Obuma gets re-elected. Me getting a gun permit was the best idea I’ve had when I got it. I live in Massachusetts and I’ve had my permit to carry since the beginning of the Millinium and I have my gun with me everywhere I go. It makes me feel so much safer living with a gun and I will have a very serious decision to make if someone comes to take it away. It’s one of the most important rights we have and every aspect of government is taking away rights and pulling in every direction for more power. I even see the difference in our town meetings where the selectmen have become power hungrey. I’m sorry the police will be the first when the revolution starts but they will have a choice to say NO just like me whether to hand over my gun or go down fighting. I truly like the saying “from my cold dead hands” it kind of sums it all up. I never thought we as a country would get to this point where the government wants to run your entire life but I hate it and I hope God can forgive me in what ever direction and desision I make. When you feel nervous for even writing a comment like this things are wrong and need to be corrected.

  • http://yahoo Bob

    OBAMA and His Gang are all criminals no wonder the LIBERALS want to ban gun. They don’t like the LAW BIDING CITIZENS shooting back at them. IF the CITIZENS all were packing the COWARDS would be running. That would be a big game change.

    • http://www.mototcarsfinancial.com Brad

      Bob

      I agree with you one hundred percent!!!

  • securityman

    if everyone thought that everyone else was carring a gun we would have a lot fewer deaths due to guns.a criminal can always get a gun.if the average household had them the criminals would think twice.even the mentality disturbed would not have a chance to do as this kid did.BUT, there should be a stop gap on the age also. it is a catch-22 type of deal. i am an ex-soldier,ex-cop-and ex-correctional officer and i can tell youthat even the mentality disturbed will stop and think, if they think that they might get hurt or killed, instead of hurting or killing. not all of them, but 99.8% of them.

    • 45caliber

      You are right about a criminal always being able to get a gun. Ever heard of “zip guns”?

      They were somewhat popular back in the early ’60s. They were hand made guns that used strong rubber bands to fire the bullet. And I’ve seen a “gun” shown to us in training at the prison that was made to fire a shotgun shell an inmate found. Both worked.

  • ranger hall

    TO MUCH TV, TO MUCH GARBAGE ON TV, TO MANY IDIOTS ON TV, TO MANY PHONEY HEROS ON TV, TO MUCH SICK MUSIC ON TV, TO MUCH DRUGS ON TV,TO MUCH SEX ON TV. ETC. DID I MISS SOMETHING.
    WE HAVE CREATED OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, AND THE SICKNESS THAT GOES WITH IT.
    aMERICAN CITIZENS AND THEIR GUNS KEEP US FREE, AND THAT INCLUDES YOU.
    NO ITS NOT OUR MILITARY, tHE MILITARY COULD BE BEAT, BUT THE ARMED CITIZENS OF AMERICA MAKE OUR FREEDOM POSSIBLE.
    We are the MILITIA, Well most of us anyway.

  • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

    The FBI recently released its Crime in The United States statistics for 2010. Overall, murders in the U.S. have decreased steadily since 2006, dropping from 15,087 to 12,996. Firearms murders — which made up 67 percent of all murders in the U.S. in 2010 — have followed this trend, decreasing by 14 percent.

    At the same time that firearms murders were dropping, gun sales were surging. In 2009, FBI background checks for guns increased by 30 percent over the previous year, while firearms sales in large retail outlets increased by almost 40 percent.

    The top three states for gun murders in 2010 were, in order, California, Texas and New York. While Texas has lax gun control laws, California and New York are among the strictest gun-control states in the country.

    • Meteorlady

      I live in Texas and I wouldn’t consider our law lax. I had to go to a class and have to take periodic classes for my concealed handgun permit. The reason murders are up here is because our government WILL NOT ENFORCE OUR IMMIGRATION LAWS and close down the borders. Read or study about our border towns and the crime rates there. Most citizens along the border, that own large parcels of land, are hiring private firms to patrol their property. Private citizens have been murdered along with border patrol agents and our government does nothing….. no troops, no more agents, nothing….. In fact, Obama administration is holding up on deportation hearings except in cases where there are criminal convictions – and then we get stuck with the cost or incarceration. Over 35% of our prison inmates are illegals……

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        Meteorlady, the term “lax” is only used as Texas laws relate to California and New York’s heavily restrictive laws.

      • GRusling

        While I agree that “Border Crime” is up in Texas, I disagree than our “STATE” government has done nothing to interdict such crime. The truth is, unless you’re involved in Texas Law Enforcement or paying VERY close attention, you simply aren’t aware of the serious effort being focused on the Texas/Mexico border, by Texas Law Enforcement professionals, because they maintain a low profile to enhance their ability to go undetected which increases their effectiveness.

        The State of Texas has increased law enforcement presence along that border and maintained that state for several years now. Texas DPS and the Texas Rangers (two elements of our State Police) have both amplified their presence in the border area, working day and night to improve the safety of our citizens. The “STATE” has allocated special funding for “LOCAL” Police departments to improve their operations in that regard, including special training and enhanced presence, all with an eye toward reducing drug and human smuggling operations. Such efforts extend all the way across the State on recognized routes and in high-crime areas.

        There’s nothing secret about these operations, but the “State” doesn’t waste money advertising what’s occurring, preferring to spend its money actually reducing such crime, and it WORKS! If you live in the border area, ask your local Sheriff and/or Police Department and they will advise you of the local effort and how it is improving your safety. As for my small part of the Texas Border, we now have additional manpower and better equipment than ever before, and it WORKS! …

      • CZ52

        GRusling If you will re-read her post she is not criticizing the state but rather the feds.

    • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

      Firearm accident deaths hit another all time low. The most recent data released by the National Center for Health Statistics show that in 2008, the accidental death rate fell to an all time low of 0.19 deathes per 100,000 for US residents…down 94% from the all time high recorded in 1904. The chance of a child dying in a firearm accident remained at about 1 in 1,000,000 as it has since 2002. For the 2nd year in a row, firearms accidents accounted for 0.5% of fatal accidents well behind motor vehicles, falls, fires, poisening, drowning, medical misadventures, natural/environmental diasters, bicycles and triycles. Gun rights organizations like the NRA, GOA, NSSF and other have instituted safety and educational programs that have contributed significantly to the steady decline in firearm accidents nationwide. There seems to be no correlation between the decades-long downward trend in firearm accidents and the imposition of recent “gun safety” laws such as “trigger locks” http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/3583and Child Access Prevention laws(gun safes) in several states.

    • 45caliber

      Jeff:

      I also live in Texas. The real problem here is not guns. It is the problems along the border and the Mexican gangs that are engaged in places like Houston. Despite the talk of the feds, Mexican gang violence has been in Texas for years and has grown. It particularly grows because if the police do catch a gang member, the feds release that person either here or in Mexico (and they promptly come back). The ONLY reason the gangs aren’t as violent as they are on the Mexican side of the border is because they know most here own guns and won’t put up with them shooting up the town as they do there.

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        45, completely understood and in agreement. See my response to Meteorlady above.

  • Dad

    If the liberals were truly against murder, they would not push the policies of killing babies. Therefore, they are not following any strict moral compass… just taking advantage of murdered teens for their own political gain.
    The access to a weapon of any type has not changed. What has changed is the liberal blueprint of a re-engineered society… which has NO moral basis… anything goes. So what you get is the terrible tragedies such as this one.
    When I was growing up, killing our classmates did not cross our minds… and when we knew people that had good fortune, we were genuinely happy for them. People helped each other, and they helped themselves through hard work.
    The change in this new society is based on envy, jealously, and greed. No only do these teens consider aggression towards their classmates… they follow through with it! This resonse is the result of this re-engineered, entitlement driven society. Simply put, it’s not working.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    I have no desire to politicize a tragedy and I would criticize those who do. My only desire would be to make a concerted effort to prevent such tragedies from happening again. If indeed the three students were shot by someone with mental or emotional instabilities as I would assume anyone willing to kill three people would have, then perhaps we should look into better gun control to try and prevent or reduce the risk of someone with such issues from obtaining a weapon in the first place. The law is an excellent defense against violence but sadly people with mental issues obey no law but their own. The best I can think is try to prevent weapons from getting into the hands of people who cannot be trusted with them as best you can. The trick is it creates hassles for those whose desire is legitimate protection. That said I feel hassles are more acceptable than tragedies and better to have fewer guns then more.

    • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

      Jeremy, there are federal laws that address the mental capacity of an individual wanting to purchase a firearm. Anyone who has purchased a gun recently is familiar with the mental health question that appears on both the federal and state gun-purchase applications: “Have you ever been declared incompetent or involuntarily committed to a mental institution?” This question seems reasonable enough. Most people just answer “No” and move on to the next question.

      Virtually everyone agrees that individuals suffering from serious mental illnesses should not be allowed to purchase firearms. For their part, most gun buyers assume that federal and state authorities verify the accuracy of the answers provided for the mental health question. That, unfortunately, is not the case.
      http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/mental-illness-and-gun-ownership

    • CZ52

      Jeremy Leochner the guy used a STOLEN gun. All the purchase controls and hassles in the world would not have stopped him.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I did not know that. Thank you CZ52.

      • Bill

        1. Just wondering how many law enforcement personnel have been shot by a criminal with the law enforcement’s own gun?
        2 .how many law enforcement personnel has there been shot by other law enforcement personnel. (just happened last week didn’t it?) (what about fort hood?)
        3. how many military personnel were killed by their own gun or one of their comrade’s guns?
        4. how many law enforcement personnel have been shot by citizens having a permit to carry arms?
        5. How many law enforcement personnel have used their weapons to kill someone attacking them or their friends?
        6. The final question; Shouldn’t the “people” have the same rights as the “people” in law enforcement to protect them self from danger from deadly aggression?

        • John

          Fort Hood is another OOPSIE! the army had decided it was ok for deployed military to have their weapons with them, but when they came back to the states ALL weapons military and personal had top be stored in the unit arms room. All of the victims at Ft Hood were unarmed! So much for the theory that taking guns away prevent crime.

  • Buck

    This is standard fare for these a–h–ls , they take ANY catastrophy that comes along and use it in their ultimate goal of trashing the Bill of Rights in particular , and the US constitution in general . How ever , not a peep out of them as Obamass destroys the Economy of the United States with his destructive policies in particular and the entire United States in general .

  • Tom SC

    I wonder if there is a statistic regarrding how many lives were saved because some one was armed. If all the decient people are dissarmed and those with evil intentions still have them and they will, who will protect you and your home. That is left to the police who will arrive in time to escourt your funeral.I would much rather be able to protect my own home. I am a gun owner and my guns have never injured anyone but I would’nt hesitate to use them on an intruder. Those who are bent on injuring another can always find a gun if thats their intent even if they have to make their own. Lack of knowledge and fire arms education contribute in a large part of the thinking on the gun grabers. Some of it is just an unwarrented fear of guns.

    • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

      Tom Sc, here is a fact sheet from the Gun Owners of America(GOA) website

      A. Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more injuries than they inflict

      * Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year — or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.2

      * Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.3

      * As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.4

      * Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of “Guns in America” — a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.5

      * Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).6 And readers of Newsweek learned that “only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The ‘error rate’ for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high.”7

      * Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year.8 Many of these self-defense handguns could be labeled as “Saturday Night Specials.”

      …also included…
      B. Concealed carry laws help reduce crime
      C. Criminals avoid armed citizens
      http://gunowners.org/sk0802.htm

  • jopa

    The whole school shooting tragedy could have been avoided if the owner of the firearm had kept his guns in a gun safe or locker.People leaving their guns where children or thieves have easy access are a good part of the problem.Then you have these fools that advertise that their house is protected by S&W and when they go on vacation and come home their guns are gone.Before you come back and say, oh I take my guns on vacation with me.Well there are those of us that fly and have too many guns to make that practical.If everyone used common sense there would be no issue concerning guns..

    • 45caliber

      jopa:

      So the tragedy would have been avoided if the uncle had locked up his gun. Really.

      I suspect the boy would simply have gotten it elsewhere. He can even buy one on the streets today for enough money. Besides, I’m certain the uncle thought he was being safe and wanted the gun handy in case someone broke in on him. Try again.

    • eddie47d

      Don’t tell Jeff that Caliber that someone can buy a weapon on the street. He thinks all the laws are fine/or too many and that all gun sales by dealers are lawful.

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        eddie…you’re just as ignorant today as you were yesterday. You’re a proven liar and slanderer and have zero support from your liberal bretheren…I’ll remind you the vote was 20 – 0, which means too much to not enough, that you have no credibility on this board. Keep up your childish, immature comments and it won’t be long before you’re banned forever…because your’s is forever, you can’t be fixed.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6wbsGx9qw

      • eddie47d

        If the only way you could win an election Jeff is by lying then you would be Mayor of SF.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        “……that all gun sales by dealers are lawful.”

        And judging by your past posts on the subject you think 99% of the sales by gun dealers are unlawful.

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        eddie, two things…
        1. I have no intention of running for anything…so that means I don’t have to lie.
        2. Unlike YOU, who’s been proven a liar time after time, I don’t have to lie to get my point across. That’s your game…and that’s a fact!

      • eddie47d

        Try that on someone else because it isn’t working on me Jeff or didn’t you notice.

  • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH
  • Ronald R. Johnson

    eddie47, you are for sure a real Quack! why don’t you and all the idiots who think like you do move to a country that thinks like you and does not allow guns, then you idiots can be happy little slaves, in America most of have enough brains to know if the government get our guns we become slaves and any country can make a run on us when ever the please! Where do U gun grabbing Nuts come from. If you idiots really had any sense you would start to enforce all the gun laws you have now instead of trying to disarm honest people, because we wont ever let you Idiots do it!

    • eddie47d

      I have no intentions of disarming you or anyone else Ronald Johnson so enough of your QUACK comments! My turn to call you an idiot since you got a kick out of calling me one and Scr*w you…… to borrow your language!.

    • Buster the Anatolian

      eddie doesn’t want to dissarm you directly he wants to do it by making it impossible for you to purchase a gun.

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        Buster the Anatolian, no…eddie will do it by “stupid-ing” you to death…that’s all he’s got goin’ for him.

      • John

        you missed it the push is to allow you all the guns you want, but to maker it impossible to get ammunition.

      • Ronald R. Johnson

        It’s still the same thing, just a different way of doing it. he and all who think like he does are in for a real surprise once they go to far!

  • 2WarAbnVet

    Thomas Jefferson wrote, “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
    Why else do you suppose government so desperately wants to destroy that right?

    • Ronald R. Johnson

      You can bet Obama,Holder,Maxine,Hillery,Reid, Pelosie,and all of the Brady Bunch have a printed copy of what you say at work and at home and look at and are inspired by it eve ry day! At least I hope so, so scr*w them all!

  • Mike Austin

    I like the slogan, Guns don’t kill people any more than a spoon made Rosie O’Donnell fat!

  • John

    I have spent most of my life in the military, I would like to observe that in the Middle East, (Iraq, Afghanistan conflicts the total number of deaths comes out to less then the annual deaths per thousand in Washington D.C. per thousand annually! Perhaps we should pull out of Washington D.C.? The way to reduce crime, is to go back to the intent of the constitution. Limit government, allow law abiding to keep(own and possess), and bear(carry) arms (a fully functional weapon) ie sword would have to have a handle with a blade attached, a gun would have to be complete, lock(firing mechanism) stock (holder for the lock and barrel) and barrel (tube to hold powder and ball and aim at the target) also necessary for arms are ball and powder, flint and primer powder.The modern fire arm requires all of this except flint to be an arm. All attempts I have seen to “control guns” result in only two things !) expensive unenforceable laws, which only disarm law abiding citizens, criminals don’t obey laws that’s why they are criminals convicted or not. 2 Crime rates increase, check England where the Bobbies(police to us Americans) for the first time since their formation are not only carrying fire arms but sub machine guns, oh this after confiscating ALL FIREARMS, and crime is UP OVER 400%. Go back to the consitiution, allow any law abiding citizen to own and carry a fire arm, and prosecute fully any misuse of a fire arm! Watch crime plummet!

    • 45caliber

      John:

      One reason they are having crime problems in England:

      An old lady had her house wrapped in barbed wire to keep someone from breaking in. The police demanded she remove it because some poor criminal might cut his hand on it.

      The authorities are on the side of the criminals.

      • John

        Yeh these are the ones who after a parolee driving a car on the streets of Oakland was stopped by two Oakland police officers. He picked up a loaded pistol from the seat of the car. 1) parolee not supposed to have any access to a fire arm much less possession of a loaded fire arm. 2) California outlaws caring a loaded firearm in a vehicle on public roads. After killing the two officers he fled on foot to his sister’s house where he retrieved an AK-47 and killed two Oakland Swat officers. 3) parolees are not supposed to have access to a fire arm. SOOOOOOO! Here we have at least three current laws broken, and the politicians solution pass more UNENFORCEABLE LAWS!!! My solution scrap all unconstitutional laws, allow law abiding citizens to buy any fire arm(s) they wish and all the ammo they wish so they can learn to properly use them. All law abiding citizens should have a drivers license or state ID card imprinted with “this is a Constitutional Carry State this citizen is authorized to carry open or concealed “

  • Bryan Armentrout

    More people die annually from smoking and from inactivity than they do from guns but noone is advocating a ban on cigarettes or mandating exercise, etc…. I mean, ban spoons and forks, after all its their fault people are overweight, right?

  • Airangel

    Bad people do bad things…the drug cartel murder unharmed citizens that can’t defend themselves…gangs hurt and rape defenseless women, crime is up in U.S. cities with strict gun laws and that don’t allow open carry permits…BAD people will always get guns illegally just as criminals ALWAYS break the law hoping to get away with it…it’s this decaying society and lack of decency and lack of a family institution causing these kids to be on psychotic / anti-depressant meds..Viginia Tech shooter, Columbine shooter both on psych meds and I bet this kid was also…it’s not the gun it’s the mindset of the person wanting to stap a bomb, stab with a knife, shoot with a gun…the sick person maims or kills not the weapon they choose. Our society is drugged up and sick. These teens are committing suicide, they are snapping from parenting, no prayer, no closeness of family, no hope, no guidance…we have thrown valor and honor away for smut, lies and a promiscous appetite for sin like child porn and molestation…

  • Smithkowitz

    If the USA is to remain the Free Country it is, We cannot disarm the public who will rise as the militia to protect the nation from takeover from any enemy; whether they originate from outside or inside our own borders. To disarm the public that legally and responsibly owns and respects firearms would subject the nation to being overthrown, attacked by terrorists or torn apart by homegrown terrorists and or gang wars throughout. I don’t think this is what the anti-gun forces truly want, and they just don’t think it could or will happen. Are you ready to gamble with your life, the lives of your children, grandchildren, parents, spouse? Time to seriously think about the world and nation that we live within. It’s not all roses and shiny new cars and houses. Very few can afford the life they once hoped for just a short 10 or so years ago. Believe the marketing gurus, media and yes men if you want; but it isn’t really getting better out there. Count the number of people standing on corners looking for food, work a place to sleep. Look at these people, they are not the same folks you saw 10 or 20 years ago, some look similar to yourself. Look at he people working in bib box retail stores; some were wearing suits a year or less ago. Some have been in these stores for years and others would have been retired if it were the same nation it was 10 years or so ago. Quit hiding inside your little micromanaged worlds of media, entertainment, sports and games. See the Real World around you; there are some truly amazingly beautiful things, there is also a lot of ugly hidden right under your nose.

  • Harvey

    and after awhile, we will find out that the shooter was diagnosed as ‘clinically depressed’ and then given ritalin, prozac or some other pharma chemical as has occured in other ‘shooters’ since columbine.
    do not expect the networks or government to divulge this dirty little secret. $$$$$.

    Harvey
    Lancaster, Taxifornia
    push 1 for English ONLY in the USA

  • Cory

    Making more laws for “gun control” really would do little, if any, good. There are gun control laws now and “gun violence” still happens. It’s not the guns that are the problem, it’s the criminals with the guns that are the problem. I’ve dealt with “gun violence” several times as a former cop. I never dealt with violence from law abiding people, only the criminals and mentally disturbed. According to the laws we have now, criminals, mentally disturbed and depressed people can legally possess a gun, but many do. They were obtained usually unlawfully, either by theft or some other means. The laws only keep those that obey the law from doing something. Criminals are criminals because they DON’T obey the law. Marijuana is illegal but people still get it, Meth is illegal but people still get it. It’s illegal for someone under 21 to drink alcohol but it still happens. There is no fool proof answer to stop people from using guns unlawfully beyond proper education and training. And honestly, if someone wants to kill someone else they don’t always use guns. I’ve seen people hit by cars, as someone posted earlier. People are stabbed (remember OJ?). People are poisoned. And honestly, if someone wants to kill a lot of people, the means to do that are as easy as going to your local Wal-mart and buying the right products. Humans have been finding ways to kill each other for thousands of years. They media only seems to focus on the times when a gun is used. The only extremely violent act that I was involve in that was EVER reported in the media (excluding the local news paper) was when a gun was used. The stabbings that I worked didn’t even make the front page of the local paper.
    I’m not saying that the tragedy in Ohio shouldn’t be front page news, not by any means. What happened should be examined and studied and learned from so that this kind of thing can be prevented. Columbine taught us a great deal but there is much more to learn. We need to learn to educate our kids better about gun safety. We also need to educate ourselves better. If you own a gun, keep it in a safe place and secured. If you have kids in your home, they need to know the rules about the guns and what the consequences are if the rules are broken. I own several guns. My kids know where they are. They DON’T know how to get the guns. They also know what will happen if they do get to them. They know what the consequences are. They also know what guns can do.

  • Paul Andrews

    You rip the dems for trying to solve a serious ongoing problem, yet offer no clue of your own to help

  • Cory

    Paul, I didn’t see anywhere in my post were I “ripped” the democrats. And if you read what I wrote, I did offer a clue…education.

  • Cory

    Lets not forget that before WWII, Hitler outlawed guns. They were confiscated by the SS. Stalin outlawed guns. Cubans are banned from owning guns. North Koreans can’t own guns. Dictatorships ban guns because they know that an armed citizen is a danger to him. An unarmed citizen is a subject that can be controlled. Before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, a general told the emperor that attacking the United Stated would be foolish because there “is a gun behind every blade of grass”. What might have happened had guns been outlawed?

  • Smithkowitz

    What solution to senseless murders are being offered by the Government? ZERO
    The murders in any of these recent cases are not because of the GUNS; they are because of the person behind the weapon and nothing else. The Gun is just the scapegoat. How do we import sense into people who refuse to open their mind to reality?

    • biger_joe2002@yahoo.com

      There is no God. There is no Bible. We’ve taken all rules away from the kids. The homosexuals around the country and atheists. These morons think that they know better than god. We need to fight and put God back in our schools and values of God and that going to war in our own country against homosexuals and atheists . It is a shame Americans are just that stupid anymore. We need to pray for all these idiots. It then women and man teachers. Was like the old farmer girls. And that kid started to shoot pick up dropped him before he got all them. They will take all the guns away from the good people the criminal can pick them up anywhere. Why do you think they’re so much money out there buying guns back

  • RJC

    Oh by the way if you want to look where banning guns didnt work and now the everyday citizen who they took there gunrights away from has to deal with criminals and guns look to Australia

  • Vicki

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/sheriff-joes-posse-probable-cause-obama-certificate-a-fraud/

    Nothing new except a law enforcement officer actually looked into the matter.

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