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Warning: The Supreme Court May Be Hazardous To Your Health

July 11, 2012 by  

Warning: The Supreme Court May Be Hazardous To Your Health
PHOTOS.COM
Patients have to take a number at Canadian health clinics.

Unless you are living in a cave, you know that last month the Supreme Court made one of its most controversial decisions since Roe vs. Wade. Conservative Chief Justice John Roberts sided with the four “liberal” members of the court and upheld the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). Many Americans who were upset about the decision vented that anger on Twitter. I find it bizarre that many Americans tweeted about “moving to Canada” to enjoy better medical care.

“I’m moving to Canada, the United States is entirely too socialist,” tweets @wallyweldon.

“The supreme court upheld Obama Care. That’s it. I’m moving to Canada!” tweets @lucasdargis.

As an American who has spent more than half my life living in Canada, I want to say this to wallyweldon and anyone else who is packing his bags: Stop! Even if Obamacare remains, the quality of medicine has a long way to fall before it will reach the rock-bottom levels that my wife Angie and I live with in Canada.

A Typical Trip To The Doctor

The red light on the old alarm clock read 7:00. The morning news began with the top stories. It was the first Monday of the month, so my wife and I began our pilgrimage to the emergency clinic in Calgary, Canada. My extended family saw one doctor for 40 years; but because he retired and there are so few doctors in family practice, we now have to visit day clinics.

This particular Monday was during winter. A blizzard had rolled in off the Rocky Mountains, making the roads almost impassable. We felt strong enough to walk 3/4 of a mile in snow-drifted sidewalks to the clinic to get the prescriptions we need for Angie’s lupus and my asthma.

The real emergencies the clinic deals with every day are a shortage of doctors and waves of patients. Some of the patients, like us, just want a refill of a prescription; others are junkies, looking for a sympathetic doctor to give them their fix.

It might seem ridiculous to walk through a blizzard to get refills of medications that we have both been taking for years. But that’s universal healthcare in Canada.

You can’t simply phone your doctor and ask him to call in a refill. That is against the rules. Under the guidelines here, prescription renewals have to be personally handed out during an office visit. This allows the doctor to pocket the same fee he would get if he were attending someone with a broken leg.

By 8 a.m., we saw the illuminated lights of the clinic through the falling snow.

The clinic doesn’t open until 9 a.m. but a line had already started on the front steps of the clinic. There were no benches, so the people in line huddled beneath the snow.

We were lucky that day. The snowstorm made it difficult for people to arrive early. Only four others were ahead of us; more than a dozen were behind us.

There was a complication. The snowstorm had delayed the clinic staff. At 9:15 a.m., the doors opened. We dutifully walked in and collected our numbers — just as I did as a kid at the barbershop. Over the next half hour, we sat and waited for our number to be called.

Checking in allows us to be seen by the “doctor of the day.” Chances are about one in two that we have met him before, because they rotate in the city.

At 10 a.m. we were called to the examining room. The handsome doctor with a Polish accent seemed genuinely to care. (Often, the doctors are desperately tired or simply fed up with their job.) He took a few minutes to learn about our ailments. Then he passed us our prescription slips. At 10:30 a.m., three hours after we began, we began the walk home.

Medical care in Canada seems like the Dark Ages. It has been especially hard for us because, just more than a decade ago, we would make appointments in Spokane, Wash., to see our doctors at Rockwood Clinic. There, fine coffee was served in china cups, and rarely was the length of the waiting-room stay more than a few minutes.

No ‘Free’ Car Wash

Two decades ago, I was sitting in the showroom of Sutherland Mercedes, a car dealership in downtown Spokane. The shop in the back was changing the oil on my 20-year-old 300D Mercedes-Benz.

As I sat in the corner, a respected cardiologist was looking at a new car with his second wife. She couldn’t have yet been 30; he was pushing 60. The salesman showed them the most expensive Mercedes sedan on the showroom floor. The wife loved it. To close the deal, the salesman mentioned that, if they bought the car, they could have free car washes from the dealership for as long as they owned it.

“You hear that?” gushed the wife. “Free car washes!”

I had to stifle myself. Across that very street was the Lincoln dealership with the then-new Town Car. If you bought it, you didn’t get a free car wash. However, the Lincoln cost half what the Mercedes did.

That sums up healthcare in Canada. Almost everyone up here thinks Canada has “free healthcare.” The truth is Ottawa and the provinces foot the bill for universal healthcare. It is a spending program that has made Canada’s government debt levels soar.

Canadians have become so indoctrinated that even intelligent people don’t account for the fact that the average family in Canada pays roughly 50 percent of their income in taxes each year just to fund the healthcare system.

To meet the growing expense, governments will have to raise taxes and even further reduce the quality of healthcare. While this is not a winning blueprint for a society, it seems that the U.S. Supreme Court is willing to embrace it.

Perhaps the justices should have read this quote in The New York Times on Feb. 28, 2006: “This is a country (Canada) in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years.”

Calgary has many great things going for it. It is a hub for energy and a progressive city in so many ways. Yet I miss the United States and the healthcare system. In the United States, doctors had the time to treat patients like patients — not just a number in line.

Yours in good times and bad,

–John Myers
Editor, Myers’ Energy & Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • Twins1994

    Young adults were completely uniformed about what the U.S. Supreme Court decided in the landmark ruling health care reform.

    Two out of three people age 18 to 29 thought the Supreme Court had either struck down the Affordable Care Act or simply didn’t know they made a ruling, according to a survey by Pew Research Center. 43 percent said they didn’t know what the ruling was, 20 percent thought most of the health care law had been rejected. Only 37 knew the high court upheld it.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/05/most-18-29-year-olds-supreme-court-health-care-ruling_n_1652915.html

    • FreedomFighter

      I am watching Obama care being setup in a Health Care for the elderly Facility:

      Older Americans better stay health under Obama Carey, they are turning Elderly Care into Hospice (deathcamps)

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • jopa

        You just described to us how clueless you are when it comes to the ACA , Hospice and Palins death camp BS.ACA is here to stay for the good of all of America, so” get over it” already.

      • Daveh234

        Sounds like misinformation to me too.

      • Robert Smith

        There is a huge amount of misinformation out there from the extreme right.

        Although it is an older article it holds true today.

        Please check out: http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/february/10_myths_about_canad.php

        Rob

      • FreedomFighter

        Jopa and you other fools — first hand information boys and girls, like on the job in my face daily.

        Obama care will kill more elderly than disease, cancer or other ill!

        You eugenics demon inspired, greedy liberals will understand when you are admitted to a nursing home…

        Veteran Nurses terminated by nursing home to cut costs — 20 years plus nurse skillz save lives daily;

        Sorry, yes you need that drug, but the death panel said NO, not availabe, no no no to that operation also your to old and your value to society is nill

        and … your 90 and have been to the hospitol 3 times in the last 2 months, you will no longer be admitted (yes happening already) — the nursing homes are not equipted to deal with critical care like a hospitol

        On top of all that and allot more… you idiots claim its free health care for 30 million, WTF tax payers are picking up the biill — STEALING MY MONEY, NOTHING IS FREE

        Of course I know you are paid hacks and plants for Obama, but you will get old some day — then it will be to late for you.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Wow FF, with just one sentence, you made three, brain-dead-socialists, do the retard-chicken-dance. You the man!

      • Karolyn

        FF – Don’t the insurance companies do that stuff already? If the day comes when I have to depend on pharmaceuticals to keep me alive, I sure won’t mind stepping over the threshhold into the other dimension and being free of all pain and suffering.

      • Old Henry

        FreedomFighter:

        You state: “You eugenics demon inspired, greedy liberals will understand when you are admitted to a nursing home…”

        They will be just as clueless then – probably more so – as they are now, so it still will not sink in…

      • Wil

        FF, you know how it is.These tools care only about themselves,and are pushing for anything their deluded little minds think will benefit them.They seem to think that whatever happens to the rest of us,they will somehow be exempt from.

      • Sheryn

        Freedom Fighter, where can I go check out what you are saying ? Have you read the entire bill. Where can I find it. I havent heard anything like what you are discribing. The things I have heard so far are all good. I won’t make up my mind till I can read it for myself.

      • vicki

        Sheryn says:
        “The things I have heard so far are all good. I won’t make up my mind till I can read it for myself.”

        It is a little more complex then just reading the 2700+ page bill :(. You must also be able to extrapolate what beurcratic rules are created to implement the bill and how the government and government controlled industries will act/react to it.

        http://healthblog.ncpa.org/means-for-seniors/ for just one of many opinions. Unlike the opinions above from the standard liberal talking points this opinion comes complete with discussion and numbers.

      • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

        Sheryn, Jopa, Daveh234, Robert Smith, Karolyn watch these Two Videos:

        “Know the TRUTH about the Government Health Care Bill H.R.3200 – Key Points”
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HcBaSP31Be8

        “Some Scary Details In Obamacare”
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DWnEqKlKko&feature=related

        And also, Sheryn, Jopa, Daveh234, Robert Smith, Karolyn and other libs:
        According to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (informally referred to as Obamacare) “the payment cuts to hospitals and hospices are off-limits UNTIL 2020, and clinical laboratories are off limits UNTIL 2016, physician fees MAY BE CUT unless a doc fix to Medicare’s sustainable growth”
        I would like to ask you, liberals, what will be with hospitals and hospices after 2020, clinical laboratories after 2016 & physician fees if Medicare’s will not sustain?

        To be IGNORANT means not knowing, to be STUPID means refusing to know and to be VICIOUS means deliberately misleading. All three are bad & ugly.

        FreedomFighter, Wil, Jay, Old Henry & Vicki and others bright & brainy
        For you I recommend to read the Dr. Lyle Rossiter, Jr., M.D. book “The LIBERAL MIND: The Psychological causes of Political Madness” It’s about LIBERAL SICK MIND.
        Dr. Rossiter described the liberal mind as ruthless, persistently STUBBORN & uncompromising with endless protests and demands. And I would add endless rhetorics, distortions and lies.

        Dr. Rossiter concluded that Modern LIBERALISM is the product of PSYCHOPATHOLOGY with devastating effects on the institutions of LIBERTY and it can be understandable “only as disorders of the PSYCHE”.
        Dr. Rossiter’s diagnose is: the LIBERAL MIND Is a Form of MENTAL ILLNESS.

        Can we trust Dr. Lyle Rossiter, Jr., M.D.? I report, you decide:
        Dr. Rossiter is a board certified in both general and forensic psychiatry. For more than forty years HE HAS DIAGNOSED AND TREATED MENTAL DISORDERS, with a special interest in personality pathology and its developmental origins. He has been retained by numerous public offices, courts and private attorneys as a FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST and has consulted in more than 2,700 civil and criminal cases in both state and federal jurisdictions.

        My Conclusion: The Liberal thinking and behavior reveals the madness/insanity/ lunacy/psychosis of the LIBERAL mind. Anybody has other explanation?

        In God We Trust.

      • AFS

        FreedomFighter I believe you know what you are talking about because you have first hand experience….. This email report shows total documentation that under Obamacare Obama is authorized to steal all of your money from every bank account in America and without need of a court order to authorize it as required under the U.S. Bill of Rights which Obama treats as was written on toilet paper in his legal version of American law. Under Obamacare, the elderly may be killed off by decision of medical sources authorized by this Obamacare. The doctors are all to work for the same pay regardless of training or specialty they represent. Typical Communist Party line in this section of Obamacare. Now could Obama really be a Communist as a former college student testified Obama told him that Obama was when they went to the same college? Well, folks, we are finally at the stage Khruschev predicted when Vice President Richard arranged for him to address the American people. Khrushchev said one day our grandchildren would wake up one day to find they were now living in Communist America. We have arrived finally at the day of SovietAmerica. As Jesus taught, judge the tree by its fruit. With Obama launching a TOTAL COMMUNIST REVOLUTION IN AMERICA BY THE OBAMACARE BILL HE BOASTS HE AUTHORED, HOW MUCH MORE EVIDENCE DO YOU NEED THAT OBAMA IS A TROJAN HORSE COMMUNIST? As reported in an earlier report of mine, a key federal electronic engineer who later became a Christian convert from being a prior atheist in the federal governmen attended the top secret C.I.A. meeting where the secret power elite secretly running Wash., D.C. discussed with C.I.A. help how to trick the American people into accepting putting under their skin the electronic microchip that would enable Wash., D.C. to create the most total police state in history since man began on earth. These microchips placed under your skin would enable Wash., D.C. to electronically spy on you 24 hours a day 7 days a week. However, this federal electronic engineer who invented this under skin microchip to create this total federal police state over all of America by lifetime electronic spying on all America did not know a key fact I knew about his invented microchip. A highly competent medical research doctor independently tested these “medical” chips and found they would eventually kill all Americans who consented to put these microchips under their skin. Also, they would die slowly a death of incredible pain and torture while they died and nothing medicine could do to save their lives once the violent pain reaction started. I never told this federal electronic engineer about this medical testing when I talked to this federal electronic engineer. Obama threatens you with prison and other acts of legal wrath by Obama if you do not let Wash., D.C. put these microchips under your skin by authority of the Obamacare Bill no one in Wash., D.C. bothered to read as it was too massive for members of Congress to read. It is tradition of Congress to write massive proposed bills no one in Congress will ever bother reading when members of Congress wants to pull a massive law con on the gullible American people who blindly trust leaders too much that they would never betray the American people in Congress.
        One final point among many points too lengthy to cover in this report. It has been charged that the Obamacare Bill has been written so Muslim Sharia Law becomes the national law to replace the U.S. Constitution and U.S. Bill of Rights. And Islam becomes the new legal ruler of Wash., D.C. rather than the American people!
        Folks, copy this email report and spread all over America and fast! The national election is close and the main news media controlled by hidden sources does not believe in telling you the truth in key areas the power elite want censored from you to control you by feeding you “politically correct” propaganda instead of the real truth. I once worked for one of the top newspapers of America and between my newspaper and friends in other newspapers soon found the main news media took orders from secret sources and censored key news and truth when it threatened the intended control of the American people by strategic censorship and strategic propaganda lies fed to the gullible, trusting public.
        Pass my Omni Law and fast in 2012! Having lived in the Wash., D.C. area for years, I know how to clip the wings of the traitors now running Wash., D.C. instead of you the American people.Nesara News has copies of my proposed Omni Law I want all Americans to back before it is too late and you now live in Soviet America as Khruschev with confidence predicted America would in the time span we are now living in! Also, Nesara News has a number of other national reports of mine in their archive listing from May, June, and July, 2012. If stuck, request a copy by email of my email report from fastboomamericaneconomy@gmail.com . Other reports indicate the Obamacare Bill may increase the cost of living of the American people as high as $1 trillion annually which if correct could trigger off wild hyperinflation or else total bankruptcy of America. A number of nations figuring Obama is a moron in national economics have as a bloc organized dumping the U.S. Dollar as the reserve currency of the world. They figure dump the U.S. Dollar and America will rapidly collapse into national bankruptcy and maybe end of America as a nation. Folks, fast pass my Omni Law and we overnight cancel the Obamacare Bill, arrest any federal officials for attempted legal high treason if they try to outlaw all gun ownership by treaty which Hillary Clinton is scheduled to do quickly now under order of Obama., and we save U.S. money from coming planned collapse in America. I studied under six of the most brilliant economists of America and Europe including a German economist personally endorsed by Albert Einstein when alive as teaching the only true economic science in the 20th century. An international prestigious organization of the Who’s Who of America and Europe once wrote me up as “The Einstein of American Economics.” If this gives you a clue what side of economics I represent I have among other things been called “The Apostle of Free Enterprise.” And finances are needed for this drive to pass my proposed Omni Law targeted before the National Election in November. This traps the politicians in America they don’t get elected in November if they don’t vote to pass my proposed Omni Law before November, 2012!
        If you want to make sure this Omni Law is passed in time to save the American economy from collapse under Obama a number of major foreign governments are predicting now, financial backing should be sent to NIFI, P.O. Box 1465, Seneca, SC 29679. Make checks out to NIFI and in memo or note section you can mark it for Omni Law Drive. Now follows the official legal report on Obamacare by a very smart legal brain in America. Yours for God and Country, Erasmus of America (pen name until I am ready to go live in broadcasts over the internet. Having spent eleven calendar years in military academies, this is my trademark all serious intelligence sources in America will know automatically who I am. Only one super ace in military intelligence has ever used this military intelligence trademark. Years ago the Joint Chiefs of the Pentagon by four sources sent me congratulations for the Slavic Royal Alliance Ruse which kept America out of a pending World War III or else defeat by the then Soviet Union. I can feel military sources now quietly saying, “Quiet! Don’t say more!”)

        Let everyone you know before it is too late…

        EVERY single American needs to open their eyes… as it effects every single one of them
        Man, Woman, & Child…. time to wake up!! Get these traitors & corrupt morons out once
        and for all…

        Subject: FW: Is this for real?

        Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012

        Alarming!!! We must be aware that none of this applies to the President nor Congress. Close your eyes to it or make some silly excuse if you like, just be ready to suffer the consequences!!! “YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS…”
        At age 76 when you most need it, you are not eligible for cancer treatment (see page 272)
        What Congress didn’t want us to know until after the healthcare bill was passed. Remember Mrs. Pelosi said, “pass it and then read it!!.” Here it is!

        ______________________________ Obama Care Highlighted by Page Number
        THE CARE BILL HB 3200
        JUDGE KITHIL IS THE 2ND OFFICIAL WHO HAS OUTLINED THESE PARTS OF THE CARE BILL.
        Judge Kithil of Marble Falls, TX – highlighted the most egregious pages of HB 3200
        Please read this…….. especially the reference to pages 58 & 59
        JUDGE KITHIL wrote:
        ** Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.
        ** Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual’s bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.
        ** Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now – ACORN).
        ** Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)
        ** Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors’ fees.
        ** Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient’s age.
        ** Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.
        ** Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an “end-of-life planning” seminar every five years. (Death counseling..)
        ** Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.
        HAD ENOUGH???? Judge Kithil then goes on to identify:
        “Finally, it is specifically stated that this bill will not apply to members of Congress. Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social Security system, and have a well-funded private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick ‘fix’ to make the plan financially sound for their future.”
        - Honorable David Kithil of Marble Falls , Texas
        Please send this information on to all of your email contacts.

      • livehealthyforless

        Alarming!!! We must be aware that none of this applies to the President nor Congress. Close your eyes to it or make some silly excuse if you like, just be ready to suffer the consequences!!! “YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS…”
        At age 76 when you most need it, you are not eligible for cancer treatment (see page 272)
        What Congress didn’t want us to know until after the healthcare bill was passed. Remember Mrs. Pelosi said, “pass it and then read it!!.” Here it is!

        ______________________________ Obama Care Highlighted by Page Number
        THE CARE BILL HB 3200
        JUDGE KITHIL IS THE 2ND OFFICIAL WHO HAS OUTLINED THESE PARTS OF THE CARE BILL.
        Judge Kithil of Marble Falls, TX – highlighted the most egregious pages of HB 3200
        Please read this…….. especially the reference to pages 58 & 59
        JUDGE KITHIL wrote:
        ** Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.
        ** Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual’s bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.
        ** Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now – ACORN).
        ** Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)
        ** Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors’ fees.
        ** Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient’s age.
        ** Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.
        ** Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an “end-of-life planning” seminar every five years. (Death counseling..)
        ** Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.
        HAD ENOUGH???? Judge Kithil then goes on to identify:
        “Finally, it is specifically stated that this bill will not apply to members of Congress. Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social Security system, and have a well-funded private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick ‘fix’ to make the plan financially sound for their future.”
        - Honorable David Kithil of Marble Falls , Texas
        Please send this information on to all of your email contacts.

    • gary baker

      ok well u right wingers keep spewing ur garbage the insurance corporations have totally blown affordable healthcare for everybody I KNOW I KNOW its news for you but when my children were born i paid for their delivery and hospital stay before they were even born and up until they were in high school i paid for every medical bill they incurred including many emergency room visits for broken arms stitches etc. and that was all on a middle class working paycheck. It cannot be done today by the average family. In fact half of all americans are considered poor by todays standards. Thank the insurance corps and other greed driven scum for all that.

      • Andy

        Here gary, have some more Koolaid ypu’re on half stupid.

      • Carol J

        Just what “middle class” job did you have that had no insurance plan. My Dad had us covered by Blue Cross which cost him nothing. All our little mishaps were covered including surgery and hospital stay when my arm was broken in 3 places. Every job I had up to the last one provided insurance, and most didn’t require me to pay more than $10 a month. Now, of course, I have Medicare which won’t even pay my primary care doctor and last year paid only 20% of my cardiologists bill. Last year Medicare took over $1000 to cover my medical and paid out about $160. I had to pay out almost $1500. If I had been able to add the money the gov’t arbitrarily took from my paychecks over the years to my savings, I would be a lot better off. You say it’s the ins. cos. that have caused this, and yet you seem to endorse this obamacare mandate that says you have to buy insurance or else. The last quote I got for supplemental ins. was $209 a month, and that didn’t even include prescription coverage. And the raise in premium is all sanctioned by our gov’t. WAKE UP!!!

    • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

      ATTENTION to all, who is interested to learn more TRUTH about CRIMINAL CHARLATAN:

      On July 17 Sheriff Joe Arpaio will held a press conference at 2:30 p.m. local time at the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office in Phoenix, Ariz.

      WND says: “The evidence will include information gathered in the posse’s recent investigative trip to Hawaii as well as an update on the ongoing investigation. WND reported last month that a letter from Hawaii’s Department of Health verifying Obama’s birth in Honolulu has “opened the door” to some “shocking revelations” the posse is promising to disclose.

      Among the details leaked early by Cold Case Posse lead investigator Mike Zullo: There are allegedly several stamps bearing Registrar Alvin Onaka’s name “floating around” inside the Hawaii Department of Health.

      “I can’t disclose to you what we’ve discovered, but it’s going to be a shocking revelation at our press conference,” Zullo told Tea Party Power Hour host Mark Gillar in a telephone interview from Hawaii.”

      SPREAD this information with everyone you know. It will be on the WND TV

      In God We Trust.

    • hawkeye10

      This email report shows total documentation that under Obamacare Obama is authorized to steal all of your money from every bank account in America and without need of a court order to authorize it as required under the U.S. Bill of Rights which Obama treats as was written on toilet paper in his legal version of American law. Under Obamacare, the elderly may be killed off by decision of medical sources authorized by this Obamacare. The doctors are all to work for the same pay regardless of training or specialty they represent. Typical Communist Party line in this section of Obamacare. Now could Obama really be a Communist as a former college student testified Obama told him that Obama was when they went to the same college? Well, folks, we are finally at the stage Khruschev predicted when Vice President Richard arranged for him to address the American people. Khrushchev said one day our grandchildren would wake up one day to find they were now living in Communist America. We have arrived finally at the day of SovietAmerica. As Jesus taught, judge the tree by its fruit. With Obama launching a TOTAL COMMUNIST REVOLUTION IN AMERICA BY THE OBAMACARE BILL HE BOASTS HE AUTHORED, HOW MUCH MORE EVIDENCE DO YOU NEED THAT OBAMA IS A TROJAN HORSE COMMUNIST? As reported in an earlier report of mine, a key federal electronic engineer who later became a Christian convert from being a prior atheist in the federal governmen attended the top secret C.I.A. meeting where the secret power elite secretly running Wash., D.C. discussed with C.I.A. help how to trick the American people into accepting putting under their skin the electronic microchip that would enable Wash., D.C. to create the most total police state in history since man began on earth. These microchips placed under your skin would enable Wash., D.C. to electronically spy on you 24 hours a day 7 days a week. However, this federal electronic engineer who invented this under skin microchip to create this total federal police state over all of America by lifetime electronic spying on all America did not know a key fact I knew about his invented microchip. A highly competent medical research doctor independently tested these “medical” chips and found they would eventually kill all Americans who consented to put these microchips under their skin. Also, they would die slowly a death of incredible pain and torture while they died and nothing medicine could do to save their lives once the violent pain reaction started. I never told this federal electronic engineer about this medical testing when I talked to this federal electronic engineer. Obama threatens you with prison and other acts of legal wrath by Obama if you do not let Wash., D.C. put these microchips under your skin by authority of the Obamacare Bill no one in Wash., D.C. bothered to read as it was too massive for members of Congress to read. It is tradition of Congress to write massive proposed bills no one in Congress will ever bother reading when members of Congress wants to pull a massive law con on the gullible American people who blindly trust leaders too much that they would never betray the American people in Congress.
      One final point among many points too lengthy to cover in this report. It has been charged that the Obamacare Bill has been written so Muslim Sharia Law becomes the national law to replace the U.S. Constitution and U.S. Bill of Rights. And Islam becomes the new legal ruler of Wash., D.C. rather than the American people!
      Folks, copy this email report and spread all over America and fast! The national election is close and the main news media controlled by hidden sources does not believe in telling you the truth in key areas the power elite want censored from you to control you by feeding you “politically correct” propaganda instead of the real truth. I once worked for one of the top newspapers of America and between my newspaper and friends in other newspapers soon found the main news media took orders from secret sources and censored key news and truth when it threatened the intended control of the American people by strategic censorship and strategic propaganda lies fed to the gullible, trusting public.
      Pass my Omni Law and fast in 2012! Having lived in the Wash., D.C. area for years, I know how to clip the wings of the traitors now running Wash., D.C. instead of you the American people.Nesara News has copies of my proposed Omni Law I want all Americans to back before it is too late and you now live in Soviet America as Khruschev with confidence predicted America would in the time span we are now living in! Also, Nesara News has a number of other national reports of mine in their archive listing from May, June, and July, 2012. If stuck, request a copy by email of my email report from fastboomamericaneconomy@gmail.com . Other reports indicate the Obamacare Bill may increase the cost of living of the American people as high as $1 trillion annually which if correct could trigger off wild hyperinflation or else total bankruptcy of America. A number of nations figuring Obama is a moron in national economics have as a bloc organized dumping the U.S. Dollar as the reserve currency of the world. They figure dump the U.S. Dollar and America will rapidly collapse into national bankruptcy and maybe end of America as a nation. Folks, fast pass my Omni Law and we overnight cancel the Obamacare Bill, arrest any federal officials for attempted legal high treason if they try to outlaw all gun ownership by treaty which Hillary Clinton is scheduled to do quickly now under order of Obama., and we save U.S. money from coming planned collapse in America. I studied under six of the most brilliant economists of America and Europe including a German economist personally endorsed by Albert Einstein when alive as teaching the only true economic science in the 20th century. An international prestigious organization of the Who’s Who of America and Europe once wrote me up as “The Einstein of American Economics.” If this gives you a clue what side of economics I represent I have among other things been called “The Apostle of Free Enterprise.” And finances are needed for this drive to pass my proposed Omni Law targeted before the National Election in November. This traps the politicians in America they don’t get elected in November if they don’t vote to pass my proposed Omni Law before November, 2012!
      If you want to make sure this Omni Law is passed in time to save the American economy from collapse under Obama a number of major foreign governments are predicting now, financial backing should be sent to NIFI, P.O. Box 1465, Seneca, SC 29679. Make checks out to NIFI and in memo or note section you can mark it for Omni Law Drive. Now follows the official legal report on Obamacare by a very smart legal brain in America. Yours for God and Country, Erasmus of America (pen name until I am ready to go live in broadcasts over the internet. Having spent eleven calendar years in military academies, this is my trademark all serious intelligence sources in America will know automatically who I am. Only one super ace in military intelligence has ever used this military intelligence trademark. Years ago the Joint Chiefs of the Pentagon by four sources sent me congratulations for the Slavic Royal Alliance Ruse which kept America out of a pending World War III or else defeat by the then Soviet Union. I can feel military sources now quietly saying, “Quiet! Don’t say more!”)

      Let everyone you know before it is too late…

      EVERY single American needs to open their eyes… as it effects every single one of them
      Man, Woman, & Child…. time to wake up!! Get these traitors & corrupt morons out once
      and for all…

      Subject: FW: Is this for real?

      Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012

      Alarming!!! We must be aware that none of this applies to the President nor Congress. Close your eyes to it or make some silly excuse if you like, just be ready to suffer the consequences!!! “YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS…”
      At age 76 when you most need it, you are not eligible for cancer treatment (see page 272)
      What Congress didn’t want us to know until after the healthcare bill was passed. Remember Mrs. Pelosi said, “pass it and then read it!!.” Here it is!

      ______________________________ Obama Care Highlighted by Page Number
      THE CARE BILL HB 3200
      JUDGE KITHIL IS THE 2ND OFFICIAL WHO HAS OUTLINED THESE PARTS OF THE CARE BILL.
      Judge Kithil of Marble Falls, TX – highlighted the most egregious pages of HB 3200
      Please read this…….. especially the reference to pages 58 & 59
      JUDGE KITHIL wrote:
      ** Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.
      ** Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual’s bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.
      ** Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now – ACORN).
      ** Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)
      ** Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors’ fees.
      ** Page 272. section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient’s age.
      ** Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.
      ** Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an “end-of-life planning” seminar every five years. (Death counseling..)
      ** Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.
      HAD ENOUGH???? Judge Kithil then goes on to identify:
      “Finally, it is specifically stated that this bill will not apply to members of Congress. Members of Congress are already exempt from the Social Security system, and have a well-funded private plan that covers their retirement needs. If they were on our Social Security plan, I believe they would find a very quick ‘fix’ to make the plan financially sound for their future.”
      - Honorable David Kithil of Marble Falls , Texas
      Please send this information on to all of your email contacts.

  • Linda

    Maybe you live in the wrong province. We avoid mainstream medicine, but when I was on a prescription for a while, I didn’t have to go the doc to get refills authorized. I agree that “free” healthcare in Canada is a myth. We pay for it with taxes up front. But frankly, I prefer that to risking losing my house when I get sick because I can’t afford to pay for treatment I might need. When I needed emergency surgery, I didn’t have the added stress of worrying about how I was going to suddenly come up with thousands of dollars to pay for it. I’m also a transplanted American, having moved to Canada 11 years ago. I have experienced the doctor shortage, and, living in a remote area, the delay in some routine services. But when I lived in the US, I experienced the same thing, not being able find a dentist, for example, because none of the 3 in my HMO were accepting patients. I have to say, having experienced both systems, I much prefer Canada’s.

    • http://gravatar.com/wandamurline wandamurline

      If you purchased a health insurance policy to protect your investments, you would not need government run health care. Look at it this way….the US government runs Medicare….it is broke, the US government stole the money out of social security and gave us government bonds which are worthless….it is broke, the US government runs Medicaid…it will belly up before Medicare….the government runs the post office and it is broke. The same will go for healthcare because they are all a bunch of thieves.

      • JTB

        Oh my God, I’m getting sick reading some of these posts. Canadian healthcare is NOT better than what we have in USA. I have familty that live outside of Montreal and they are not happy or never have been happy with healthcare. My nephew hurt his leg and called the dr and they told him he could come in to see the Dr in 1 month! He said I can’t wait a month I need help now and I’ll pay out of my pocket and then the nurse said ok come in tomorrow! Oh yes it’s wonderful in Canada. The same people are paying 5.00 for a gallon of gas, they come to the states to shop for food, clothing and even paying duty is still cheaper than buying in Canada. Socialized anything especially government is not a good thing for people who have to deal with them. Of course, obama and his croonies will have thier own cadillac plan but we’re just pheasants and we’re stuck with what obama will not use. Talk about double standard!

      • independent thinker

        I have read that in Canada all government employees no matter their job go to the front of the line for health care while everyone ilse has to get in line and wait their turn. Don’t know how true that is but I have read it somewhere.

      • restorefreedom

        Treasonous thieves!

      • Paul

        As a sideline, look into the wealth of our elected congress/ senate members. It should open your eyes even wider as to their honesty.

    • Jeff

      Thank you, Linda. To hear these wingnuts tell it, you’d think everyone in Canada and Britain is longing for a transition to the US system. In fact, there are Americans in border cities “sneaking” into Canada for treatment and medications they either can’t get or can’t afford here. I think ultimately we’ll have some sort of 2-tiered system here like one person here described in Montreal. That way citizens are guaranteed a minimum level of care while the Romneys of the world can still go to proctologists with golden instruments.

      To the author: you clearly have the money, so why put up with the Canadian system if it’s so bad? Nothing stops you from paying cash in the U.S. and/or buying health insurance here. BTW: doctors in Canada must be doing fine if the doctor in you example could afford both a Mercedes and a wife half his age!

      • http://gravatar.com/marycal marycal

        I recently talked to a lady in Canada who said she had no problem with the health care systm. She was able to see her doctor in a few days and immediately if she had an emergency. There were waiting times for specialties and elective surgery, no different from here in the US. They did not have to pay one cent more out of pocket. The doctors were paid good also. I for one, am sick of hearing the right wingers say America does not want Obama care. How dare they speak for ME and many others,. Their arrogance is unbelievable. What is not to like about not being dropped from a plan if you have problems that cost your insurance more, if you have pre-existing conditions, paying for your kids to stay on your policy four yrs longer and making it more affordable for lower wage earners to purchase it. My husband and I are retired and pay out of pocket more than $700.00 per month in preminums for Medicare,which is subsidized, a gap health care plan, and a long term policy. We have all this so we will not be forced to sell our home if we run into a health situation that could cost us all we have worked for. Raising our taxes to include the cost of a universal healthcare plan would save us money. I would personally like to see a plan such as those in France, England and Canada than the bandaid effect Obama care will create. I have never heard so many lies told in politics as I have this campaign by the Republicans and they think it is perfectly acceptable to be dishonest. What happened to integerity?

      • Travis

        Jeff, read the article again? The doctor that was doing well was in the U.S.

      • HH

        “BTW: doctors in Canada must be doing fine if the doctor in you example could afford both a Mercedes and a wife half his age!”

        Jeff, you didn’t READ his article very well did you? The Dr. he was speaking about was in Spokane WASHINGTON! Not Canada! It would be good for you to read AND understand what you read before you go spouting off at the mouth.

      • Scott

        NOT for Jeff, but IF it’s so bad in Canada, THEN why don’t these folks come back HOME to the USA? We can use their tax dollars!! Why give them to a nation with such a SORRY health system?

      • JC

        hey Jeff,

        I’m also an American who has lived more than halh my life in (Calgary) Canada.
        It kind of works like this…

        Necessary surgery is often a long a waiting list
        Elective surgery is a long long waiting list.
        Rolling into an ER bleeding or broken will get you immediate attention
        and pretty good care. At least it did for me.

        The problem with Canadian Health care is and has always been Government Bureaucracy.
        The boots on the ground orderlies, Nurses and Doctors are generally doing their best with what they have, which unfortunately isn’t enough.

        Not to mention that there are those who actually do think it’s free so they have no problem taking up ER space over a head cold.

        It’s generally dysfunctional and the US is in for the same and worse…

      • Sheryn

        I agree with Marycal 100% Higher taxes for healthcare would definately be a stress reliever.

      • The GLB

        Jeff, the doctor that the author described was in Spokane, Wa, and his point was that the trophy wife was happy that the Mercedes included free car washes for as long as they owned the car.

        Now I have no idea how much a Lincoln Towncar costs, but I am pretty sure that they cost at least $40,000 even 20 years ago. Paying twice as much for a luxury car to get free car washes, a $20 value, would require having one’s car washed daily for almost five and a half years to make up the difference.

        Here is some advice that I read and I could NOT agree more: Get healthy, proper nutrition will cure any disease (Check out the Gerson Therapy, which has cured everything from Tuberculosis to Cancer to MS). Once you are healthy lower your principle by raising your deductible.

        If I could I would have only catastrophic insurance to cover broken bones, etc.

        • Jeff

          GLB:

          Tell me what it can do for Type 1 diabetes.

      • vicki

        marycal writes
        “How dare they speak for ME and many others,. Their arrogance is unbelievable.”

        We do not speak for you dear. We speak for ourselves. If you want obamacare we are all quite willing to let you have it. However last I looked obamacare is a law that all of us have to obey (except for the real 1%. Those politicians and people with waivers).

        So you can have what YOU want, you demand that the rest of us give up what we want.

        Then you call us arrogant. Hmmmmm.

  • Flashy

    “just more than a decade ago, we would make appointments in Spokane, Wash., to see our doctors at Rockwood Clinic. There, fine coffee was served in china cups, and rarely was the length of the waiting-room stay more than a few minutes.”

    Errrr….welcome to a snapshot of what being the 1% is these days.

    I’d have to say 10 years ago I was experiencing the same (though not seeming so bad) of arriving, waiting for about 45 minutes to be ushered into a room, sitting in the room for anywhere from 10-30 minutes…then being able to see the doctor. Afterwards, spending a few mails and calls with the insurance company about what they pay and what my tab was. In a hospital recuperating after a back surgery, being charged $10 for two aspirin is a vivid memory as well as being sent home the next day since the insurance company stated back surgeries were a one night stay with home recuperation and PT. The fighting with the insurance company because the home PT wasn’t deemed necessary even though another letter from the same insurance company stated it was and available under the policy.

    Served coffee in fine china? Interesting. I have never been to a doctors office in my 54 years where coffee was served in fine china. Actually, most visits I was told not to drink or eat before coming in.

    Now…let us compare the price of medical care 10 years ago in the US as compared to pricing today. Anyone want to check those costs versus inflation, the number of uninsured, the profits of the health insurance industry then and now etc?

    Bottom line…go tell a Canadian you would do away with their health care system and replace it with the US system. Chances are…you’d be locked up for mental issues. I have met very few who would not outright laugh in your face for making such a suggestion.

    • http://Yahoo Jacqueline

      Yes, I’d have to agree with you! As a Canadian, I have had good doctors and not so good doctors. I haven’t had a family physician for close to 8 years. Its not the best senario but I live with it. I go to a walk in clinic if necessary or see a Nurse Practitioner who can refer me to a specialist at any time. I have a health care plan that is a reasonable amount around $200 month for a family of 3. Not bad, I have no real complaints and I sure would not want to be living in the US and paying what they pay. No system is perfect and Canada could improve, but all in all most Canadians wouldn’t trade what we have.

      • CJM

        Jacqueline: If the health care is free, why are you having to pay $200/month, especially when 50% of your tax dollar goes to pay for that “freebie.” At least we have quality care in the US–something that Canada and other socialist countries can only dream of.

      • Flashy

        CJM…quality care? Errrrr…have you looked over the ranking of the US compared to the world a far as “quality care”?

        Quality care eh? And who receives this “quality care”?

      • Daveh234

        Yeah, sounds like CJM is the koolaid drinker here.

    • John Myers

      Flashy,
      It is no snapshot of “these days” or being part of the 1%. Writers don’t get rich. I also said that this was in the early; ’90s, a period when the health insurance was provided to me by the publisher I worked for. As for the eating and drinking, I tore my knee ligaments several times skiing. I don’t think food or liquids impacted my knee examination.
      Sincerely,
      John Myers

      • Flashy

        Mr. Myers…I did not state you were part of the 1%. i wouldn’t know. I said that was the treatment of the 1%ers today. That you received such 10 years ago, as compared to the treatments of today, speaks volumes of the “advancement” of the US health care system prior to the HCRA. As for the servings….such stymies me. Although you may not have needed to be off food and drink, the usual is it’s not served up in waiting rooms for those who do need to stay off food and drink. The only memory i have in the 54 years of breathin’ the air on this rock is water available…and then only if you asked for some. I cannot recall ever seeing liquids available in as much as a simple dispensary. And never having no waiting period.

        BTW…you did pay for the insurance. It came from your salary. Just think of the additional monies available for your salary if the employer did not have to bear that cost… you know…just as the argument of increasing taxes on corporations is passed 100% to the consumer. (I know…not true but it is another myth perpetuated by the Right)

      • Scott

        @john myers….. well in my opinion since you MADE the decision to go skiing, to take an irresponsible action on your part, since that decision involved a HIGH degree of risk, I would say you are like the motorcycle fellow who wears no helmet. YOU PAY the full costs of your decision making out of YOUR own pocket. Why should any insurance company or fellow citizen PAY to patch you up or make you well……. You made the risk decision, you pay the costs. PERIOD!!!!!!!!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Scott, would you say the same to, smokers, gays, soldiers, policemen, the obese, construction workers, athletes….well you get the point., i hope. The point being; everything you do in life can be considered dangerous to your health; like your argument., for example.

      • Mike in MI

        Jay -
        In your list you forgot to mention that in this country one of the most risky behaviors is doctor visits – like 2.4 million deaths per year from taking prescribed drugs alone. That doesn’t even take into account iatrogenic deaths due to negligence, errors, tests, surgical risks, hospital acquired infections, cross-contamination, wrong diagnoses and the rest of the plethora of risks involved. Hells bells, this country’s traditional medical services quality is so far down the list among the developed nations going to a tribal shaman in the third world is likely to get as great a benefit.
        Why people think we have great medical care is beyond credibility. If anything it is testimony to the quality of marketing, their ability to insulate themselves from public discovery and fawning public worship. What is really galling is that everybody is aware of the yearly cost increases. Yet nobody figures it out that those statistics are indicators of how bad medical is.
        Health is not expensive – diseased and injured people are. If medical was doing even a fair job the costs should be declining. Cost increases point to vastly greater needs for increased care and disease management…not health management.
        Medical reasons for making diagnostic and therapeutic decisions are obsolete. They don’t work. While advances in many, if not most, of the non-traditional health approaches are making tremendous strides in health delivery and prevention. Medicine won’t change – largely because it can’t. So, it will remain the largest of the croney socialist systems the government uses to control us and make our taxes go up in smoke – at the crematorium.

    • CJM

      So why do so many Canadians come to the USA for surgeries and treatment for illnesses that doctors there are forbidden to treat? A mentally retarded person needing a transplant does not get treated—and this is now happening in the US because of the death panel list medical practitioncers must adhere to. Suck an egg—socialized medicine stinks worse that the swamp swill that produced it.

      • Flashy

        CJM…what ‘death panel” would you be referring to? the only one I know of is the fictional one referred to by the far Right/TPers/American Taliban/Anti American contingent.

        Care to fill us in? ‘Cause such a “panel” certainly is not in the HCRA…

      • Tory

        @Flashy…you’re just playing a rhetorical word game…didja really think the official document would use the straightforward term “death panel”? For reference, the death panel is officially known as the IPAB ( Independent Payment Advisory Board), a panel of 15 appointees not accountable to Congress

      • JTB

        Exactly, very well said!

      • Flashy

        Tory…is that the panel that has the explicit task of achieving specified savings in Medicare without affecting coverage or quality ?

        Where.explicit in the statutory language “the proposals made by IPAB should not include any recommendation to ration health care, raise revenues or increase Medicare beneficiary premiums, increase Medicare beneficiary cost sharing (deductibles, coinsurance, or co-payments), or otherwise restrict benefits or modify eligibility criteria” ?

        THAT is what you refer to as a “death panel” ? Seriously?

      • Ted Crawford

        Flashy
        Section 1233, of HR-3200, They were in the bill, untill Sarah Palin exposed them. They were quickly removed, untill Dr. Donald Berwick, then Obamas Health Care Czar, attempted to reinsert them in 2010, got caught and they were once again removed ! It’s clear, coupled with Oregons 1997 ” Death With Dignity Act” , where they ultimately intend this to go !

      • Flashy

        Ted…FYI..Oregon’s Death With Dignity Act is akin to the third rail in Oregon. They try and mess with it, they’re out of office. No sales tax, no self service gas stations, state wide uniform land use laws, recycle laws, bottle/can deposits, Oregon Health Plan (covers uninsured families on state assistance) and the Death With Dignity Act.

        I don’t know about where you are coming up with this stuff…but would you at least try and be close to reality based?

      • Scott

        I say GOOD, we don’t need that DNA to keep going, remove it from the system… and go back to the tribal days, when you get OLD and can’t keep up with the TRIBE, just stay by the side of the road, some one will enjoy a meal on you…… makes sense to me… it’s time EUGENICS came into the picture. The WORLD would be a far better place if we did not have all these old and sick and diseased people passing on genes!!!!!!!!

      • Wil

        Scott,you could be onto something there,since studies have show that liberal/impulsive minds are a product of a deviant genetic make up.Since they are flawed,disabled as to fitting in with ‘normal’ society,eugenics might be a good idea for that problem as well.That is the slippery slope your thinking would lead to.

      • Sheryn

        Scott—- do you really think the old sick and deseased people are really passing on genes–Not anymore but that is where you came from. You are definately sick and deseased for sure and you must be young so please do not pass on your genes !!!!!!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        For sure, Scott! Let eugenics reign, and we can build ourselves a race of only blond and blue eyes. Zeig heil!!!

      • Flashy

        OK…Section 1233, of HR-3200. I read it. Including the referenced portions. It is the same one i originally read back during the debate and at that time amazed people would object to … and one needs serious mental attention to read into that section anything about “death panels”.

        JKust what portion of that Section do you find objectionable?

        If that’s what you are referring to when speaking of “death panels” …I highly suggest a class in soothing, relaxing meditation. Cause you got problems Sparky…

    • John

      You’re exactly right that we Canadians would never trade the system we have had for 45 years for the expensive TRASH that Americans call “health care’. Everyone has a doctor here in Canada. Even when I lived in a small village of 700 people, there was a physician right in the village, and 20 within a 20 minute drive, and everyone in that village of 700 had a physician. I can make an appointment to see my doctor the same day if necessary, and have had hundreds of physician appointments, 6 surgeries, and 12 hospitalizations since single payer began in 1966 (with out of pocket costs of $ ZERO) and I have had better and faster treatment in Canada than I had in the seven years that I worked in the United States.

      A real Canadian calls this article total bull&%%^&* and, if they asked told a real Canadian they should have American style insurance run health care, any real Canadian would laugh in their face.

      Even Canadian Conservatives support not else but Canadian single payer health care (as do 96% of Canadians) and Conservatives are about to renew the federal/provincial agreement for single payer health care and to guarantee funding for single payer until 2024.The easiest way to win an election in Canada is to make voters think the your OPPONENT wants a rotten American style insurance run health care system. Any Canadian politician stuck with wanting American style health care is guaranteed a BIG LOSS.

      • http://Internetexplorer Ray

        I worked with a couple of Canadians a few years ago. I considered them to be really intelligent. I consider myself extremely lucky to have worked with the only two Canadians in the world that have a brain.

    • John Myers

      Good points Flashy,
      And yes, health insurance for my family came out of my salary. Also there was always a co-pay up front to clinic. I can’t remember how much it was but it was enough you didn’t go to the doctor over a cold or a headache. In Alberta there is zero co-pay. If you have time on your hands and just want to complain to a doctor about anything, it is free to the patient. But of course it is not free to the taxpayers.

      • Flashy

        Mr. Myers … you may get me to sidle closer to your viewpoint (and maybe you may to mine) if we agree that no co-pay is not a good idea with a state subsidized health care system. A small co-pay, perhaps $10-25 USD, to prevent willy nilly abuse.

    • Joseph Jeske

      I am certain that we all have our own “story” about who has better healthcare and why. I must be one of the lucky ones, I guess. I never have a long wait for an appointment with my doctor, and I do not usually have a long wait at the office either. I have never been served coffee or tea, but I would not expect that at a doctor’s office. Everyone has their problems with healthcare in both systems. The original main point of the article was to tell people that if you are moving to Canada because of the “Affordable Care Act “(A Huge LIE) that you might not want to do that if you don’t want universal health care. How far we have strayed from that!

      It seems to me that every argument Flashy gets involved in deteriorates into name calling, character bashing, and insane rhetoric. While Flashy is certainly entitled to his opinion, no one has to pay any attention to him. That is the beauty of it.

      I thought this forum was for civilized discussion of relevant issues. I suppose I will have to look elsewhere, for it seems not everyone wants to discuss. Some just want to make their opinions known.

      And they often do it badly, and without using proper spelling and grammar.

      • Daveh234

        Civilized discourse is really rare. If you offer a different viewpoint you will be assailed with names and abuse.
        It really is a showing trait among quite a few here. Not all, though.

      • http://N/A Robert CH

        Thank you, Joseph Jeske for your remarks about spelling and grammar. Recently, someone dared to correct the spelling of the word, “riddance”. (The misspelled version was, “riddens”.) The response to the correction was unbridled fury. “How dare you– who are YOU tto correct me—etc.” The actual correction was done very politely, but that didn’t matter. The idea that the credibility of one’s post depends greatly on one’s use (or misuse) of the English language doesn’t seem to occur to most people, including those who delight in using the most scurrilous insults while posting.

    • http://yahoo wendell

      Flasher, your just another typical liberal that wants the government or someone else to take care of your every wants and needs. If, after your your back surgery, you would have taken matters in your own hands and took it on yourself to do the physical therapy, you wouldn’t have needed the added extra cost or the fight with the insurance company to get it done. Just do it and quit whinning!!

      • Flashy

        Wendall…are you really that clueless ?

  • Warrior

    As usual, the gubmint breaks something and ONLY they have the FIX. ” We didn’t know how BAD the economy really was” Really!? You “boobs” that have been collecting a fat paycheck for decades and enjoying yourselves while you adopt ALL your ludicrous “Bills” to fix this and that, have no clue that what you created was just another frankenstein. Really? You clowns need to be sent packing in Nov. I REALLY don’t care what TEAM you claim to play for. I say any trough feeder that been in senate or congress for over two terms is not only “fair” game but should be catapulted over the wall. Good hunting folks.

    • Flashy

      So Warrior….are you voting for the Incumbents in your state for Congress and Senate? Is that not part of the problem everyone will “vote for theirs” and criticize the selections of the others?

      Let us know when you walk the talk…

      • Warrior

        NOPE and if given the opportunity, I would vote yours out as well.

      • John Myers

        I could not agree with you more Flashy. There should to be some sort of co-pay so people think before they go to the doctor for any and every little minor ache.

    • John

      You do know that there are 12 times as many elected representatives per capita in Canada than there are in the United States, and our elected representatives are our servants, not our masters. The United States has a lot to learn from Canada, since Canada has both better government and better health care than the United States has (and I’ve lived in both nations).

      You do know that Canadian Conservatives support same sex marriage, string gun laws, universal single payer health care, a woman’s right to choose, and continued abolition of the death penalty.

      While Canadian Conservatives SOUND like American Republicans, Canadian Conservatives GOVERN like American liberal Democrats and would get slaughtered at the polls if they did not govern that way.

      • HH

        “You do know that Canadian Conservatives support same sex marriage, string gun laws, universal single payer health care, a woman’s right to choose, and continued abolition of the death penalty.”

        Yep! Everything I’m opposed to John! I don’t believe in same sex marriages or woman’s right to choose…. abortion (kill unborn babies). Ahhh gun laws! I think you meant str(o)ng gun laws? In Canada personal defense is not a reason to posses a firearm, since I don’t hunt anymore personal defense is the ONLY reason I own firearms. And then the death penalty, it has it’s place. Don’t you know that we have a God given right to extinguish the life of a killer, of course after due process. Sounds like all the democrats and left wing liberals in the US need to move to Canada, they got it happ’n for you guys up there!!!

  • http://aol theno1chief

    It is ironic that folks like Mr. Myers can give his story, (which I am sure is factual), but people of this Country have become like sheep. They simply follow along the prescribed path and do nothing about it. President Obama will receive 95% of the black vote again and a large portion of the young vote because they will not even investigate what is going on, and a large portion of the academic vote. Heaven forbid if he is re-elected. Secretary of State Clinton is signing a UN document doing away with our second amendment rights shortly, Attorney General Holder is going to court to prevent the States from doing anything about illegal immigration, President Obama has increased the food stamp program by 40% since he was elected in 2008 making more Americans dependent on the Fed, our credit rating has been downgraded. I am quite worried about our Great Country, I feel we are dramatically going in the wrong direction and I say the election in this year is of monumental importance, we must defeat Obama!

    • Flashy

      The first post concerned young people not being informed as to the recent SCOTUS ruling on Health Care. This post show the young are not the only uninformed people out there. Or maybe we should ask Theno1chief….how young are you?

      A very good example of gibberish, application, misinformation and selective memory … wow.

      • Opal the Gem

        “A very good example of gibberish, application, misinformation and selective memory … wow.”

        Sounds like theno1chief has studied your postings of the last few weeks and followed your example flushy.

    • John

      I’m 61 years old and I would never change the health care system we have in Canada for the garbage I saw when I worked in the United States. I agree, Americans are sheep, and anyone who believes this misinformed garbage of an article demonstrates how much of a sheep they are.This article is nothing more than a lie from beginning to end. Ask any real Canadian and they will tell you that we would NEVER, EVER trade our government system or health care system for yours in a million years.

      We have far better than you have in both government and health care any day of the week.

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear John,

        What makes one a “real Canadian?”

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Melody

        Canadians seem to not know what freedom is… free to live a life you want, choose the doctor you want, not fork over half of your pay so you can live longer, so you can work longer. so you can pay more to the government. Isn’t that called slavery…. got to keep the slaves healthy so they can continue to work. And you think Americans are sheep….now that is funny….. no we are independent thinkers…. unique and free to do for ourselves and not become slaves of the government. And by the way… if it wasn’t for America…. your country would not exist…. now would be a good time to say thank you.

      • Flashy

        Melody…what makes you think we’re free?

      • FreedomFighter

        Not according to the millions of Canadians that cross the border for healthcare every year.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Sheryn

        I totally agree with you John and I am an American in the United States. I would trade ours for yours in a heart beat !!!!

        • Joseph Jeske

          You know, I thought this whole discussion was about healthcare. Now it has to deteriorated to name calling. SOME Americans may be sheep, but this PROUD AMERICAN is not one. I would not trade this country for any other. BUT, I would trade our health care, for certain. As someone pointed out earlier, it is disease management, run by large pharmaceutical companies, who bribe our politicians in Washington. It is an industry, and needs to be totally overhauled.

          But please can we cut out the name-calling folks? I don’t denigrate Canadians, I and I would appreciate if the favor was returned.

    • Daveh234

      Obama has not increased the food stamp rolls. They increased because of the affects of the recession.
      The qualifications were set in other administrations.
      The majority of food stamp recipients are white Americans who have lost jobs and/or homes because of this recession and aren’t all “deadbeats” like most here assume.

      • Scott

        VERY TRUE, Bill Clinton and the Republicans redid Welfare, cut the rolls and LEFT US with a surplus….. GWB and the tea party crazies and the right-wing came along and put US in two wars, gave Wall St. a free ride, WE got the free fall and NOW WE are paying the piper…. YOU ain’t seen nothing yet… just wait until we get 4 more yrs. of GWB and maybe then the Repug. will go the way of the old No-Nothings….. out of sight, out of mind!

    • Pete

      The USA is at a crossroads. The election in November will determine weather we will continue becoming a police state with perpetual wars to support the military industrial complex. The US is now a fascist state-large corporations have paid off our regulators to the point that competition from small start-up companies has been largely eliminated. It costs about $300,000.00 for a drug company to make an application to the FDA to have a new drug approved. The total approval process costs about a billion dollars, thus locking out smaller companies. I am not optimistic, as the mainstream media continues to lie and distort the news to a dumbed-down, apathetic citizenry. I am a dual US-Canadian citizen, and am considering a move back to Canada. I lived there for 25 years. I was always happy with the medical care I received, and I know many other residents of Canada that are happy with the level of care they are now receiving. When their single payer health care system was introduced, they did it right. It became a violation of the law for insurance companies to sell health care insurance. Unfortunately, The Canadian supreme court ruled that this was unconstitutional a few years ago.The USA already has death panels-they are called insurance companies!
      One other thing Canada does right is that corporations are prohibited from making campaign contributions to politicians. Individuals can contribute up to $1500.00.
      In Windsor, Ontario-a large city across the Detroit River from Detroit, MI, The murder rate is vastly lower compared to Detroit. Last year the Windsor police really cracked down on the drug trade-realizing that the drug trade was responsible for most murders-and last years murder rate was zero! In the Greater Toronto area-population total of about 3 million people-the murder rate is usually about 40-60 per year. Public transit is second to none, and is safe to ride.
      During this financial crisis, There was no wave of home foreclosures, as there were suitable banking regulations in place. In fact, home values continued to rise.
      This not to say that Canada hasn’t been affected by the worldwide recession, but the impact has been less than in the US.

      • Rick

        Peter I agree about Not allowing companies to contribute to political campaigns I also believe that only registerd voters can contribute and only to individual candidates and all are limited to a set ammount. Do away with the political parties and make people run on their own merits.And do away with buying/selling political influence. The insurance industry is a very corupt and greedy system. But that is the lack of supervision and reasonable regulation. In part because of the industry setting the regulations not the people. Hoeever I do not agree with robbing Peter to pay Paul Ie. taking money from working people to pay for the never worked. We as citizens need to think and work towards doing the best for as many as possible but not at the cost of others. I bet if we did away with all deductions and set a flat 5% tax in 5 years this country would be swimming in black ink. That is fair every one pays a nickel on every dollar they make.It is sad when the janitor pays a higher pers=centage of their income than the CEO.

        • Pete

          On the whole, I agree with you. We need to take care of the disabled who are unable to take care of themselves. Veterans are being totally screwed by our government. I don’t understand why anyone would enlist in the Military, except that they cannot find any job elsewhere. The people who run this country are nothing but criminals, and traitors.Those who are able bodied, and can work should be made to work. However, in this economy, with all of our manufacturing jobs being exported to places like China, detracts from opportunities for our people. Not everyone is capable of graduating from college. There is far too much importance placed on a college education! My father came to Canada from Hungary in 1927. He could not speak English. He started out doing farm work in Saskatchewan, Canada. He worked in a foundry in Oshawa, Ontario, where his co-workers laughed at him when his pants caught on fire. He dug ditches, and was willing to take any job. The longest time he was unemployed during the depression was 6 months. He quickly decided that he needed to learn English, and enrolled in a class sponsored by a local church. In 1932, he was hired by Ford motor Company in the machine repair department. He impressed his supervisors with a drawing he made of a radial aircraft engine. He was promoted into the drafting department, where he was eventually promoted to supervisor. In 1955, he transferred to the US Ford Motor Company. He worked in the advanced automatic transmission engineering department. He quit Ford around 1959 to work on an invention of his own-so it would not be assigned to Ford. During this time, he started an engineering design business that designed automation production equipment. Business was not good, as the economy was in a recession. The invention he was working on was an an automatic transmission that had no need to shift-it was continuously variable. He had a friend in Windsor, Ontario who owned a machine shop. He knew how to use all the machines, and he modified a Fordomatic transmission to make it into what he wanted. There was no need for a valve body, or servos. It used 2/3 less parts than the Fordomatic, and weighed 45 lbs less. He bought a 1957 Ford for this project-the torque converter was bolted together, and not welded which facilitated modifications. The experiment was a complete success, and performed comparably to the Fordomatic. He was granted a US patent on this transmission. It was driven for 82,000 Mi, when a parking attendant broke a ring gear by putting the car in park to stop the car. Nobody was interested in the transmission for political reasons. He was told that what they made then sold well, and that to retool would cost a lot of money-so why change? And there was the Not Invented Here factor. He was re-hired by Ford in 1962. He was granted 16 patents on behalf of Ford Motor Company. He retired in 1969 as a Senior Design Engineer. He didn’t have a college degree. He was self taught, not just in mechanical engineering, but he could speak to you about ancient Greek and Roman history as though he had lived it. He said that reading gives one the capacity to imagine new things. He played the violin as a classical musician. Most college graduates today have accomplished none of these things. How many college graduates have even one patent? Why does the public place such unfounded faith in credentials ? Our current president is as phony as a $3.00 bill. I have have heard it said that the trouble with America is Harvard, Yale, and Princeton-and the garbage they teach! I think there is a lot of truth to that. I am not an anti-intellectual, but a lot of what is coming out of our universities is politically motivated, and is pure garbage, and defies common sense.

          • Jeff

            Pete:

            I assume you have data to support your thesis about Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. From the Limbaugh Institute, no doubt? Actually, I agree that some idiocies could only be perpetrated by Harvard Ph.D.s. Like the Iraq war. No cab driver thought up that one. That took true geniuses like Wolfowitz and co.

            But the idea that knowledge and scholarship in general are our problem is a particularly odious part of the right-wing playbook. It is a big part of the reason the Republican party is so anti-science and so anti-intellectual. If someone disagrees with the revealed wisdom you learned as a child, he must be a “pointy-head intellectual” not to be trusted.

          • Joseph Jeske

            You obviously have no clue what is going on if you believe the Republican party is “anti-science!” I f you meant “anti junk science”, you would be correct. We are also against being lied to. If anyone actually believes the ACA can be funded without raising taxes, raise your hand. I have a bridge to sell you…

            I do agree with you on one point, however. The house is wasting its time voting to repeal ACA, because the topic won’t even be entertained in the Senate, as long as Stinky Harry Reid is in there

            We need health care reform in the U.S. That is beyond dispute. But I do NOT believe ACA is it. It was enacted against advice of medical professionals. It was not thought out, merely thrown together. Why on earth would I trust anyone who says we have to pass it to find out what’s in it??? Only a Dumbocrat congress would have passed such ludicrous legislation. Oh, and let’s not forget that the whole thing is illegal, since it originated in the Senate, and ANY bill for revenue collection must be originated in the HOUSE. And since it has now been declared a tax, which is for revenue generation, it is illegal.

            YOU are obviously ANTI-FACT.

          • Jeff

            Your definition of junk science is

            a) any science Rush doesn’t like
            b) anything contrary (in any way) to the Book of Genesis
            c) Darwin
            d) anything environmental
            e) anything that might suggest business needs to change any approach
            f) all of the above

          • Joseph Jeske

            You’re funny sir!! You wouldn’t know my definition of science.A) I am not a republican for one thing. B) Just because you don’t like someone doesn’t mean they are wrong. C) I am against being lied to, not anything environmental, etc, as you claim. D) I believe wholeheartedly that medical “care” in this country needs to change drastically; I just don’t believe the ACA is the change we need. E) I also believe that a lot in our govt needs to change as well. We need to get rid of corporate campaign contributions, or at least limit them to a reasonable amount. Lobbyists should be outlawed immediately. All influence pedaling needs to be stopped. Congress needs to be forced to accept the same crap that it forces on everyone else. Maybe then we would have some real reform!

          • Jeff

            I agree with a lot of what you say. I just don’t understand what changes you would support in healthcare. I do not particularly like the way this bill was done and would much prefer an expansion of Medicare. I think this bill institutionalizes the place of insurance companies in healthcare in a way that is not optimal but does represent an improvement, however incremental.

          • Joseph Jeske

            Oh, by the way, please don’t attribute things to me that I did not say or imply in any way. All your implications are wrong, for one thing. You have no clue who I am or what I believe, and that fact alone makes your comments stupid, and you pathetic.

          • Joseph Jeske

            Oh, and Jeff, I wouldn’t sully my brain with the crap in the WSJ. If you think I am narrow minded, then let us sit down and have a reasoned debate, and we will see who is narrow minded. I believe it would be you, since it seems all you can do is regurgitate other peoples thoughts.

          • Joseph Jeske

            And that is just one of the latest ways govt tries to control our thinking: by taking what should be institutes of learning, and turning them into hotbeds of tired Liberal doctrine, and crippling our children, so that they are no longer capable of independent, critical thinking.

          • Jeff

            What do you consider independent thinking – Ayn Rand and the WSJ editorial page? Maybe lots of professors are liberals because thinking broadens the mind and the perspective so that xenophobic thinking is less prevalent. If you are a Republican because your father and your grandfather were and you’ve always “believed” democrats are “the enemy,” then maybe it’s your thinking that is not so independent.

      • Sheryn

        Rick, I’m voting for you !!!!

  • http://www.manvscapitalism.com Wayne

    In America, the only place you could find stories like this was at military hospitals. The military doctors are very good indeed, but the system is totally socialist. I know, I am a retired navy officer. If Americans want to know what socialized medicine under Obama care is like, all they have to do is ask active duty and retired military as well as those needing care from the VA. To simply pick up a prescription at a hospital like Bethesda Naval, it can take 2, 3 or more hours. That is not an exaggeration. To get an eye appointment, well you need to plan months ahead or forget it.
    Unfortunately, the only people the lame stream media asks about socialized medicine are those that are healthy and never had to use it regularly. Of course they are uninformed and ignorant to how money comes out of their pay check for nothing. They never experienced the reality. Shameful.

    • Flashy

      I guess that’s why when ever the VA system is brought up to be cut or dismantled, it’s an uproar and a sure way for a politician to lose veteran votes.

      • http://www.manvscapitalism.com Wayne

        No flashy, that’s not why. But from all your comments in here, I can see you pretty much aren’t in touch, and believe everything the lame stream media tells you. Then you run around conservative and libertarian blogs and make comments with no real backing. So I’ll do like a liberal socialist, and make a comment and not give any more definition.

      • Flashy

        LOL … thanks for the morning chuckle…

      • Opal the Gem

        “Then you run around conservative and libertarian blogs and make comments with no real backing.”

        You have ol flushy pegged Wayne. I can count on one hand the number of times he has provided a source or link for his assertions. He will not provide them even when directly asked to prove a statement he has made. As a result of that plus all the times he has been proven to distort the truth and outright lie he has no credibility.

    • Karolyn

      I know that it is easy to get prescription refills via the mail with the VA and its automated system.

  • BigBadJohn

    Interesting….. I spent 2 months working in North Bay Ontario, at a hospital getting their computer network up and running. It was a brand new state of the art facility. I NEVER saw more than 3 people waiting to see a doctor. Talking to the folks who work there – they never had a complaint about medical care. In fact one was telling me a story how while on vacation in the USA his wife was hospitalized for sun stroke. Even though the charges from the US hospital were about three times “normal and customary” the Canadian insurance covered 100%.

    The biggest problems in the USA is availability of doctors. Only a small number are allowed to go to school each year and most of them choose specialties to make more money. My longest wait is usually at my regular doctors office – not specialists. The easy way to make health care more affordable is to have more doctors.

    • Robert Rashbrooke

      Could the shortage of doctors be in any way associated with the horrendous cost of getting medical training/education here. If you leave college or university with $100.000 debt caused by that education, it is going to take one an awfully long time to clear THAT debt Before taking on any other debt , to buy a house, for instance.

      I accept that in some other countries the same conditions may apply, but most countries seem to have enough doctors to cope with their population level, even the one’s with single payer systems. This is the only country of the 8 I have lived in for years at a time, that have a totally private, for profit system, which most people feel in broken in some way.

      • BigBadJohn

        I am sure the cost is a factor. However, medical schools limit the number of new students every year. I know a bunch of kids with 3.8 GPA’S with undergrad studies in premed that that have applied to a dozen schools and have not been able to get in.

        • Joseph Jeske

          And let us not forget the exorbitant cost of malpractice insurance.

  • John

    Canadians, rich or poor, have far better health care care than Americans have at 30% of the costs. Virtually any American would be very fortunate to have the health care that we Canadians. This story is absolute fiction, and biased.

    I have lived in both Canada and in the United States and have used both systems and Americans insurance-run health care is light years behind Canadian health care based on my personal experience.

    I would never touch American health care with a ten foot pole in any circumstances,no matte what was wrong with me. Canadian health care is far better than American insurance run and insurance rationed health care, always was, is, and always will be.

    Any American has inferior health care compared to what Canadians have in Canada, and 2 million Americans cross the border each year to come to Canada because they know they get better health care here than they have in the Unted States.

    • CJM

      @John: Given how Canandian medical practitioners REFUSE to treat dying infants so that what time they have left is more comfortable (and then use the legal system to prevent the parents from going to a country where the procedure can be done) tells me that the socialist healthcare system is NOT working…nor do you enjoy quality health care. Under the socialist healthcare system, protocol enumerates that certain peple will not “qualify” for any medical care–that includes anyone who is deemed as a non-viable human who cannot, due the the medical condition, return to becoming a productive citizen. You let the elderly die out without medical care, refuse to treat infants with terminal illnesses, let the mentally challenged do without adequate medical care which leads to an untimely death, and on it goes. Sure glad I am not a Canadian–I would have to leave and go where there is quality medical care for all, and not just a chosen few. We will defeat the abominable, damnable deathcare system that the obammyfreak shoved into our faces.

      • John

        You do know that infant mortality in the United States is almost double what it is in Canada. If you mean Baby Joseph, Baby Joseph was brain dead right from the beginning, and American newspapers propagated outright lies about that case. Canadian physicians treat critically ill infants until they die, Canadian physicians do not treat dead infants after they are dead.

        You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about regarding anything in Canada.

        Canada, not the United States is bastion of rights, freedom, and liberty in the world and has been for 30 years.

      • John

        Also the average lifespan of a Canadian is 81.7, the average lifespan of an American is 78.6. If people are supposedly denied health care when they get old (like me), why do Canadians outlive Americans who have American insurance-run health care by over 3 years and always have, ever since the United States began insurance-run health care 40 years ago?

        Being in my 60s I get the same excellent health care in Canada that I always have, and people in tie 70s and 80s do as well.

        The people that are denied proper health care are not Canadians, they are Americans who have insurance run and insurance rationed health care. American ho are denied access to a doctor and treatment because of inability to pay are victims of massive rationing by American insurance companies.

        Canadians have vastly better health care at any age than Americans who have their health care rationed by American insurance company bureaucrats do.

      • BigBadJohn

        Babies born in Cuba, Malaysia, Portugal, and the United Kingdom have a better chance of surviving the first month compared to those born in the United States, according to researchers at the World Health Organization and Save the Children.

        In a 20 year analysis of newborn death rates around the world, the study published in PLoS Medicine revealed the number of infants who die before they are 4 weeks old account for 41% of child deaths worldwide. Newborn deaths in the United States ranked 41 out of 45 among industrialized countries, on par with Qatar and Croatia.

        Here is a nice chart – please notice that CANADA is rated ABOVE the USA.
        Canada # 30
        USA # 37

        http://www.truthfulpolitics.com/http:/truthfulpolitics.com/comments/u-s-health-care-ranking-compared-to-other-countries/

      • HH

        John said, “You do know that infant mortality in the United States is almost double what it is in Canada”.

        5.3 in Canada and 7.07 in the US is NOT double the rate but this could be why it’s higher in the US and it’s probably not because of the health care system.

        Only 2.5% of Canadians are black
        12.6% of Americans are black

        Infant mortality rate for black Americans is 13.63%

        Canada ranks 24th with a 5.3% IMR rate over the last 3 years
        US ranks 34th with a 7.07 % IMR rate over the same period

        Take the black % of the population out and the mortality rate would be almost even.

        If you just take OVERALL statistics you can make them say pretty much anyway you want them to say, but when you break them down a different light shines doesn’t it?

    • Scott

      @John and BigbadJohn…. you two know that the only reason!!!, that you get the arguments against Canada’s or the Aussie’s or even the Brit’s system, let alone what most in Europe have IS THAT these folks who post against YOU are folks who STILL believe the LIE that America is the greatest country in the world, the Light on the hill, the Saviour of the rest of the world, etc…. UNTIL THEY get all those LIES out of their heads THEY will continue to act and post as they do on all of these forum based outlets. THEY can’t help themselves, THEY have a silver beam stuck in their brain…….

      • Joseph Jeske

        Everyone (except a very few) seems to have lost the whole original thread of this article. Once again, those who must denigrate others to make themselves feel better have taken over the day. Yes, i do believe my country is the greatest in the world, but I also totally agree that you have every right to believe that about your country as well. I have visited many countries, including Canada, and that is what I base my claim on. It’s called Patriotism, and everyone has the right to feel that way (or not) about where they live.

        So I would rather have the silver beam in my head than whatever you have up your other orifice.

  • firefight

    Moving to Canada? What a joke. People who make that rash statement are totally out of touch with what’s going on in the world. For your information, The U.S.A. IS THE LAST BASTION OF HOPE FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD. Canada, Australia and the U.K all have a socialist gorernment and all of them have government provided health care and all of the citizens of those countries have thousands if not millions of people that die while waiting for treatment every year. This the change that we don’t want but is the kind of change that Obama was promising us when he was campaigning for the Presidency. Why the hell didn’t we find out what he had in mind BEFORE we elected him? That wouldn’t float either since we now know that he is a professional liar. Trust me as one who has had first hand experience with Socialized Medicine……WE DO NOT WANT IT HERE. Whenever has the government given us anything that really helped us? The answer is: Only once in the entire history of this country when the founding fathers gave us The Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill of Rights. Since then, the government has given us unfair taxation, bloated oversized expansion of government, unconstitutional laws and restrictions on our freedoms and acceptance of illegal immigration, to say the least……and the list goes on and on.

    • nc

      Firefight, one thing you left off your list of what the GOVERMENT has gven you since the Constitution (1780s) it the opportunity to live in the number one nation in the world!
      I don’t think even our Constitution promised a perfect government or even started as one since it provided protection for the practice of slavery of another human being!
      Do you think any state government or group of states could have done a better job?
      What plan would that have been?

  • roger gunderson

    I don’t believe Americans should be forced into buying anything.

    • Flashy

      In re; healthcare…you’re not forced into buying it. But if you own a car, you are forced to have auto insurance. Is that what you mean?

      • Robert S Redfern

        No, you only need third part insurance, no personal.

      • Flashy

        You have to buy it. Forced as a matter of fact. Just one example which belies your initial statement

    • jopa

      rogerg;That may be your illusion of today however you are already paying for the uninsured through higher taxes and higher insurance premiums for your policy.If you are able to afford insurance and not buying it YOU are the problem

      • BigBadJohn

        EXACTLY!!!!

        Anyone can go to an emergency room and the hospital is REQUIRED to see the patients. The cost of emergency rooms are what, at least twice the cost of a doctor office visit,
        There is a LOT of money to be saved by giving people the option of going to doctor instead.

    • Scott

      YOU ARE FORCED every day into buying something….. cause whatever you want, YOU have to pay the SALES TAX on it first…. if you don’t pay that TAX, you don’t get it….. IF THAT IS NOT FORCE, then I don’t know what “force” is……..

  • Fred Raaflaub

    Ontario’s health system may be less time consuming in one respect, than Alberta’s (Calgary) in that some doctors are paid per patient rather than per visit, so doctors do phone in prescriptions. North Bay is a smaller city which may also be an advantage. Part of Alberta’s difficulty is the influx of people because of the increase in oil output. Ontario does have a big problem though, with increasing debt because of an over-spending Premier, and now they are cutting back on some of the things that Health care formerly covered. He, like Obama, wants to change society and won’t give up paying for abortions and won’t forsake his forcing explicit sex education and pro gay school curriculum. He evn hired a consultant at $1500/day to try to save the province money. He could have just cut out his unnecessary programs and saved money on a consultant.

    If you want to come to Canada, wait until after the election so you can vote against Obama first.

    • John

      BTW, next election Canada, in 2015, will have A New Democratic Party (Bernie Sanders style social democratic) government, so by all mean, come to Canada after the next election. Harper will be looking for a job in an American right wing think tank by then.

  • Tom Cook

    My pipemaster is a most intelligent man who thinks that France is just peachy with 26 hour work weeks and six month vacations and a month off at Christmas, but he doesn’t realize that everything is redistributed in France so that there is no incentive to be an entrepreneur and seek excellence or advancement. Forbes has columns every week about some American twenty-something who has thought of a twist on something existing or a brand new idea which makes them wealthy and makes great numbers of people happy. To me, France is a third world (expletive deleted) just like all of the socialized nations of Europe. I just want to take the good old U.S.A. back from the queer Kenyan communist mus.

    • Jeff

      Tom:

      Have you been to these places you describe so lovingly or are you getting your info from AM radio? Here’s a clue: all women aren’t Nazis either just because they find gross, overweight white guys gross and overweight.

    • ROSINA

      France has a 35 week hour NOT 26 hours.
      This was brought in by the previous socialist government and then modified by Sarkozy.
      Now Hollande has gone back to the socialist idea plus early retirement.
      As far as I can see the medical system is good although when they go on strike people die.
      As in the summer a few years back when 10.000 seniors died in a heat wave. Hospitals could not cope as MOST NURSES AND PERSONNEL etc. WERE ON THEIR LONG SUMMER VACATIONS.
      i WAS UNFORTUNATE to have an accident during a strike and was badly handled.
      But doctor’s visits and prescriptions were and are reasonable.

    • nc

      Tom, do you read Forbes a lot? Did you have any reason to doubt those articles about the smart young Americans”
      Let me invite you to go to Forbes.com to read and study another Forbes column with charts at “Presidents and Prosperity” and see where they compare economic aspects of each administration from Truman through George H.W. Bush and rank them according to the results! DO that and let me know if you can find any evidence that electing those”socialist, communist” Democrat Presidents has ruined our country like the Republicans have promised every election from FDR on. Truthfully,don’t you think the Democrats have done a better job than the Republicans based on the figures that MR STEVE FORBES, SEVERAL TIMES CANDIDATE FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION HAS ALLOWED TO BE PRINTED IN HIS MAGAZINE?? WOULD HE ALLOW A BUNCH OF LIE AGAINST HIS OWN PARTY IN HIS OWN MAGAZINE?
      Also take a look at “Presidents and the Stock Market” which was a part of the same study and in the same article IN MR. FORBES’ MAGAZINE! Then pull up “Bulls, bears donkeys and elephants” at the NY times for a study of the stock market during the same administrations! QUITE THE SAME INDICATION OF HOW WELL THE STOCK MARKET HAS DONE UNDER THE DEMOCRATS AS IN THE FORBES ARTICLE RANKINGS! RIGHT?? HAVE YOU NOTICED HOW MUCH THE DOW HAS RISEN SINCE little bush (R)left office???? Same story again!! TAKE A LOOK! WE LIBERAL “COMMUNIST” ARE VERY PROUD OF OUT RECORD WHEN COMPARED TO THE ONLY OTHER PARTY(R) IN OFFICE DURING THAT PERIOD!
      I’M STILL A PROUD AMERICAN DEMOCRAT IN THE NUMBER ONE NATION IN THE WORLD!! IF FDR, HST,JFK, LBJ, CARTER, SLICK WILLY AND OBAMA WERE COMMUNIST I’LL TAKE A DOZEN MORE OF THEM BEFORE ANOTHER HOOVER, NIXON AND THE CRAWFORD CRETIN, DADDY’S BOY, bush!!
      Daddy’s Boy Mitten???? you folks can’t be serious!!

      • BigBadJohn

        Here is the link to Forbes data

        http://www.forbes.com/2004/07/20/cx_da_0720presidentstable.html
        Based on GDP growth
        Rank
        Bill Clinton 3
        Lyndon B. Johnson 1
        John F. Kennedy 2
        Ronald Reagan 5
        Gerald R. Ford 6
        Jimmy Carter 4
        Harry S. Truman 9
        Richard M. Nixon 7
        Dwight D. Eisenhower 8
        George H. W. Bush 10

        Interesting, Jimmy Carter was better than the republicans best……….

      • Joseph Jeske

        You seem to forget that FDR owned the Supreme Court, which trampled all over state’s rights. You also seem to forget that that Slick Willie got all the credit for what the previous administrations did. He did absolutely nothing to improve anything. He rode the coattails of the great ones.

        And you actually believe ANYTHING printed in the New York Times?? Please…

  • steve

    the title of this article should be ” this system we live in is hazardous to your health .”

    • John

      The only system that is hazardous to your health is the American insurance run system. We Canadians have far better health care than Americans with insurance have.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        So why are you not happy with your Canadian system of Socialised Medicine?
        You are rather ridiculous in constantly telling the posters that no, no, that we are not seeing what we are seeing because you don’t see the problems.
        I also question who it is that you work for. From your posts it seems that you work for the Ministry of Propaganda of Canada.

    • D.G. Reid

      I must take exception to the statement that “Slick Willie” accomplished nothing while President but rode the coattails of previous Administrations…in fact….”Slick Willie” was instrumental in changing the ‘OVAL OFFICE’ TO THE ORAL OFFICE!!

  • Tamra A

    @ CJM, could you please explain your comments? They seem a little odd.
    you are upset with Canadian healthcare because doctors refuse to “treat” dying (terminal) infants “so that what time they have left is more comfortable.” Isn’t that what they should do for an infant who is terminally ill??? Please give examples of the various charges you make, I would like to look them up. What elderly have they let “die out” without medical care? Or do you mean that when an elderly person is at the end of life, they did not try to keep them alive artificially? Please elaborate on your charges.

    • John

      He’s talking about Baby Joseph, a brain dead baby that Americans wanted to keep breathing with a respirator after he he was declared brain dead by 6 world class specialists in neurology and pediatric intensive care.

      Americans think that doctors should operate on a brain dead baby and keep it breathing with a respirator weeks after world class specialists declared him brain dead.

      • Tamra A

        I figured it was something like that, John. People love to twist the truth to make it fit their beliefs, rather than change their beliefs based on facts. Thanks. :-)

  • http://www.technologybarn.com Rodney

    Your article described health care in the province of Alberta. Health Care is administrated by Provincial legislation and differs from province to province. In Ontario you can renew a prescription by a telephone call to a pharmacy. The pharmacy handles approval from the prescribing doctor directly via fax. Since each province may have different processes you are unable to describe a Canadian system and compare it to the Obamacare proposals. I understand that the individual state governments in the US have the right to refuse to implement Federal law by passing appropriate state laws. Most often the states refuse to exercise their constitutional power.and have become afraid to say no to the feds.

  • Tamra A

    @firefight, please tell me where you got your information about all the people dying in other countries, while they wait for care, I would like to check out your sources. You realize that tens of thousands of people die in the USA every year because they cannot afford medical care, right?? Over 40,000 people die in the USA every year, just because they cannot afford to be treated. You did know that? Right?

    • John

      These guys fail to realize that all those millions of Americans who have to wait decades for treatment or surgery until they get Medicare to be able to get it, are on a decades long waiting list right in the good old United States, and that it is American insurance company bureaucrats who ration the health care of Americans. We, in nations outside the United States, would never touch American health care nor American style health care in our nations with a ten foot pole.

  • JOHNTHEBAPTIST II

    I am astonished at the level of ignorance americans have in listening and trusting what the news media and the congress says happened in the written opinion? I have read this opinion several times now and John Roberts did not approve anything in fact he said the commerce claus under a mandate and the medicad was considered by 7-2 vote unconstitutional and they tore it out of the law, which means that bill is dead for that was the way obama was to pay for it the Penalty? Roberts also said the penalty was not a proper tax even though they used the IRS to collect that penalty, in no way were they similar! Second roberts sent the law back after gutting the commerce clause because he said the PEOPLE would hold the fate of any TAX bill, and it must conform to the tax clause and be voted by congress using tax law which requires the super majority not the 50-50 split used in thefirst attempt. And that congress has the power to tax not too levy penalties on its people, again by the people we avoided what roberts said he could not change if obama wants this bill to be a tax it must be written as a tax, for Roberts was clear he did not decide the decision on a tax that was left to the congress and the people! wAKE UP AMERICA AND CALL THOSE IDIOTS IN WASHINGTON AND HAVE THEM READ THE OPINION NOT JUST GIVE US THEIRS!

  • Wyatt

    To those of you who are in debate with Flashy , I suggest you give it up and simply ignore him as there is no winning with his left wing liberal Communist mentality .
    As for health care , My youngest son was married to a Canadian girl and lived in Calgary . Being a diabetic , they thought it better to make their home in Calgary for the so called free health care . Sadly, he was forced to return to the US as his marriage crumbled and surprise , surprise ! His employer provided health care insurance as well as a good wage . Just like my employer did for his employees and at no cost to us . Now I do not say we had totally free health care but the payment was extremely low , about the cost of an office visit ( usually between $5 t0 $10 ) Now as I rarely am ill , I simply do not allow it , my visits were for injuries , one a work related accident on the job , the other a recreational muscle pull incurred while playing on the company softball team . And the best part of all of this , employees had the option of selecting additional coverage at a small fee . They also had the option of keeping their own private health insurance if they had it or not joining at all . Of course everyone did but that is not the point .
    Socialized medicine is just another step towards turning us away from our Constitution and towards Communism . The liberal left says it is for the benifit of the people , but in truth , the only one gaining any benefit are those who seek to take away our liberties and our freedom . The call it health care as it seems harmless to the average person . But it is only the start of the dictates . Today health care , what will it be tomorrow ?

    • nc

      Wyatt, “socialized medicine” where all doctor, nurses and technicians are federal government employees? Is that in the bill?
      In reality the purpose of the bill is not to give liberals any special benefit(?), what ever benefit you think they are getting, but to insure health care for those that the actual cost of the care would be a fincial ruin for them and their families. Wasn’t that the intent of the Constitution? To provide a government for a better more stable life for its’ people? That same great Constitution of the great founding fathers providing for a great Supreme Court to settle disagreements peacefully instead of taking up arms by our same great forefathers to settle their EVERY disagreement HAS SAID THE CONCEPT OF FEDERAL HEALTH CARE IS CONSTITUTIONAL AS OF NOW AND MAYBE FOREVER . Do you want the concept of our great Constitution to work or not? Remember that it DOES NOT PROVIDE FOR YOUR OR MY SPECIFIC APPROVAL TO BE THE LAW!!

    • carrobin

      I guess every other civilized country on the globe must be Communist, because they all have national healthcare for their citizens. And their citizens live longer and pay much less for their medical care. If some of these conservatives would get over the idea that “socialized medicine is the devil.” Americans could be healthier and wealthier as well.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Why are you still living in this country which you believe is uncivilized America? You are more than welcome to move to those civilized countries of your choosing where you will supposedly get better healthcare.

    • Scott

      Well I don’t know what state Wyatt is living in, but I just went to my Doctor’s office, waited abt. 30 minutes in two different areas(rooms) he saw me for abt. 10 minutes, total travel time back and forth, I was out of home abt. two hrs….. then the other day the bill came, medicare paid nothing, my state health insurance paid nothing, the BILL was for the visit was $145.00…… I want to move to Wyatt’s state, where doctor visits only cost $5-10 per visit….. I could save some money for my Cayman Island account, just like Wyatt does!!!

  • MP

    Because the Canadian health care system is as stated in the above article, that is exactly why WE DON’T WANT OBAMACARE!!!!

    • John

      The article stated above is an outright lie, and millions of Americans each year have to cross the border to come to Canada to get the health care they are denied by insurance company bureaucrats in the United States.

      The people with substandard health care are Americans with insurance, not Canadians.

      Canadian health care beats American insurance run health care hands down (and I’ve used both).

  • tamarque

    This article is based on such defective ideology–not facts.
    First, this new law is not about health care. it is a Medical insurance and drug boondoggle for industry. It represents a lot of horsetrading. For the few pittances that may benefit people, industry was guaranteed even more profits. That is what the mandate is all about.

    Second, we have no health care system in the US. It is strictly a medical industry with a goal of forcing everyone to use it. It is outrageous that our system has been so blatantly been taken over by corporate interests. Btw, that is not socialism. That is called Fascism. I sure wish Americans would get their information straight.

    Third, the American system causes more deaths than any other event: heart, cancer, accidents, etc. it is acknowledged that over 100,000 deaths a year are caused in hospitals by allopathic treatment. This is only the number that gets recorded. Many other deaths that attributed to things like cancer, are actually deaths caused by the toxic treatments legally given Further, private doctors and HMOs are not required to report adverse effects of drugs or wrong diagnosis, etc. When all is said and done, experts estimate that betw 1-2 miillion deaths a year are caused by this so-called health system.

    We have forced drugging in this country without informed consent. When a doctor says ‘trust me’ that is not information. Vaccines are notoriously damaging, something known by the CDC, FDA and big pharma. But the public is denied all the information about adverse reactions or the long term effects of these neurotoxins. The public is not informed that the vaccines do not provide immunity. They do cause disease and they do affect the mutations of viruses and bacteria which then get called new diseases which result in more drugs being sold. This is disease making for profit.

    Drugs are pushed for profit without serious testing for safety or effectiveness. So-called studies are ghost written by pharma corporations. GlaxoSmithKline was just fined $3.8 billion for false selling of drugs that did not work and fraudulent pushing of drugs for uses not even approved, etc. This is not a big win for the public. It was only a gentle slap on their wrist as they made many more billions over the years of pushing these noxious drugs. The other important thing to note is that these legal costs are factored into these companies budgets as all of them receive large fines (by the public’s standards, not theirs). Merck sold Avandia with 60,000 deaths acknowledged before they pulled it off the market. How many billions was that?

    The American medical industry is powerful and dangerous. It buys Congress. It buys the President’s office. It pushes harmful drugs on the public, here and abroad. Their drugs all kill–some quickly, most slowly. They never cure anything. There is no profit in that. And they attempt to destroy anyone with healing protocols that actually work. Thus, they go after holistic healing and they go after even conventional doctors and researchers who speak out against the drugs or who promote safer and cheaper treatments. The list of this evidence is very long. Andrew Wakefield is one of the recent casualites, but he is fighting back. Burzinski has been embroiled for years with bogus suits brought by Big pharma for his successful cancer treatments.

    Canada is a medical haven compared the US. Almost any other western country is a haven. Even Cuba which has one of the best health care systems in the world. When people come to understand the difference between socialism and fascism, we might begin to have a real dialogue about what it means to have a real health care system that keeps cost under control and is open to safer treatments. India is using homeopathy for malaria now. Cuba used homeopathy for Leptospirosis with phenomenal success in 2007 and I would imagine that is what they do on a regular basis. The cost is only 10% of what is cost them with allopathic drugs and for this terrifically reduced cost they were able to treat over 90% of the population compared to a small fraction of that with the toxic and useless drugs.

    This article is blowing hot air for ideological reasona with no facts behind it.

    • Joseph Jeske

      tamarque, thank you for a well thought out and well phrased, understandable response. I have never experienced any other health system besides the U.S., so I am not qualified to comment on them.

      You have gone right to the heart of the issue in your argument. American “Healthcare” is indeed an industry, and it is one that has a great deal of influence in Washington. The government might fine big pharmaceutical companies, but it is a back-room agreement. “Here, you pay this fine, and we’ll overlook all the other totally illegal things you are doing. It will look good for both of us, and the people will never know.”

      Most of the drugs I have taken over they years have a truly frightening list of possible side effects. It makes me wonder why anyone takes them at all. They only treat symptoms, not diseases, and often they either do not work, or in fact make things worse, because you doctor forgot to check on possible drug “interactions,” , i.e. combinations of toxic chemicals that might kill you.

      We also have another large problem in this country. The number of lawsuits spawned by bad drugs, improper treatment, etc, has skyrocketed. Almost every day you hear an ad on radio or tv, asking if you took some drug or other. Then the magic words “you may be entitled to financial compensation” come out. Every day people are being encouraged to sue someone.

      Our system does need an overhaul. I don’t thiink that the ACA is it. We were sold a lie on that one. We were promised that additional millions would be covered, and no one would have to pay higher premiums, or higher taxes. That is pure bull. The only way government can increase revenue is to increase taxes. And they will need increased revenue to fund the ACA. I also don’t like the idea of being forced to buy anything, whether I want it or not. But that is another issue.

      • ROSINA

        Agree with both of you.
        Today, with computers, it is easy to read up on drugs.
        I refuse to take them even when my blood pressure is zooming, which it is at present.
        But, i prefer natural means and take vitamins etc, keeping stress and anxiety down when possible, eating correctly as often as possible. Keeping weight down and being active helps.
        I JUST do NOT trust the FDA which is paid by ‘big pharma’ I used to think it was an Independent agency, but it is not.
        Beware of all those ads which spout the benefits of this and that drug, slowly, then rattle off all the possible side effects, so you an barely understand them!!! Along with lawyers ads, I think these should be stopped.

  • ROGER, Irish-Canadian LIBERTARIAN

    John you are NOT quite right.

    Yes visiting a clinic is an exericse in extreme patience and sometimes even futiity BUT medical COST are not the problem for Government DEBT. As with the U.S., our DEBTS are rising because our Government borrows from the Rothschild/Rockefeller BANKSTERS . This, in Canada is Illegal and UNCONSTITUTIONAL but because MOST Canadians are Politically and Constitionally CHALLENGED, our governments get away with this ROBBERY .

    As of 2009 our government was paying $160,000,000. ( not a typo) PER DAY in INTEREST to those Banker Thieves because of our same POLITICAL schemers, such as Harper..

    I would estimate TODAY it is $180,000,000. PER DAY

    • John

      Canadian GDP per Canadian is 7% larger than American GDP per American.

      Canadian national debt per Canadian is 52% of US national debt per American.

      If Canada had insurance run health care as the United States has, Canadian national debt per Canadian would surpass American national debt per American, not be 52% of American national debt per American.

  • http://www.RobertRedfer.com Robert

    1. No country in the west has Health care, it is disease management.
    2. It is run by organised crime hereafter known as big pharma. Big pharma pays the highest fines for their crimes in history (latest $3billion) but their crimes are so profitable it is a cinch.
    3. Health care is: eating real food, drinking pure water, supplementing the missing minerals in that food, exercising in moderation every day (or so), not getting too stressed at the crimes of big pharma, big corporations and big government, and standing to oppose the crooked politicians. OK I agree homeopathy and bodyword are health care.

    • john

      Robert- Your comment is absolutely correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS IN AUSTRALIA

    When i go to a doctor In Australia, i merely ring up for an appointment for the next day in our family clinic staffed by a very competent team of young to middle ages doctors which is far more preferred these days rather than single doctor medical practices which tend to be 80 plus year old doctors who have not kept up with modern dicoveries or new diagnostic processes and cannot seek an opinion of other practitioner which multi doctor clinics can offer.. The fee is $60 for a simple session of 10-15 minutes which is paid by me by credit card or cash direct to the Clinic and at the same time our Medicare with return our credit card about 30%.because our clinic does not bulk bill as some of the other doctors might do in less wealthy areas where customers would not have the money or credit facilities to pay themselves…so the clinics have virtually become government workers were they get paid direct and experience no bad debts, however some have attempted to make up income reductions by over servicing to increase their income. Anyway, if i need a blood test this can be done at the clinic at no cost to me directly or if a need an exRay or MRI we are given a referral to go to a Radiologist Practice and again its free because we pay 1.5% levy on our income as part of out income tax, however if you dont make a profit then as a consequence you dont pay tax or a levy and still entitled to ‘FREE MEDICAL’ services.

    If we have PRIVATE HOSPITAL INSURANCE we can ellect to choose our own medical specialst and be treated in a private hospital asap and pay extra ‘out of pockets’ or extra fees in excess of schedule fees which might not be covered by the insurance we have, however if we do not have private insurance we still get free hospital however we have a choice to wait on the waiting list if the issue is not life threatening but they will treat us ‘free of charge’ if your matter is an emergency, in places like St Vincents Hospital in Melbourne which has am emergency department where Ambulances deliver mergency cases. Ambulance Services are membership based charging about $80 per year and it costs you no more, but if you dont pay membership …then transportation can be in the $thousands which are charged to the clients or their estates if they die.Pensioners on low income dont need to pay as again its covered by our socialist government tax revenue.

    Medication is also subsidised if you are on a low taxable income basis and medication is approximately $5,40 per script against about $27,00 approx if you are a high income earner.

    We are fortunate in Australia as we do not have snow or sever weather occurances to stop people getting to clinics alone or stopping Ambulances which have a very good response rate in our main cities taking maybe 10 minutes to arrive in emergency situations. Ambulance staff are very highly trained and have all of the necessary medical equipment to restart hearts etc

    If we take away the political aspects of out socialist type government system of taxation theft from the rich to benefit the poor…the system works very well and most people dont have to sell their houses to pay for medical procedures and the doctors dont need to worry about experiencing bad debt recovery stress.

    I note that one of our Australian Medical Funds BUPA operates in Boston too.

    I hate to advise you all, that you will lose votes by making the Obamacare an election issue as you will only remind the majority of the voting people who incidently are the poorer and middle class voters who perceive the benefits for themselves to outweight the extra taxes that the minority ‘rich’ will need to pay. The poor majority dont care who pays the taxes, or that the government will have to print or borrow more dollars.The poor majority are of the opinion that the rich are not paying enough taxes or that the rich have friends in high places to help them avoid taxes, The middle classes also might think it a good idea if they wont have to sell their houses or investment holdings to pay for their medical expenses and longer stays in hospitals than insurance fubds are prepared to underwrite, The advantage of less arguments with insurance funds during periods of illness are a great attraction for many conservatives which is again why its the wrong topic to dwell on for too long. I strongly suggest you concentrate on generalities of poor economic management or excessice government administration costs, and deficit spending…but do not list specific programs you wish to cut as even Republican voters are living off government welfare spending.and other programs,

    • canemah

      I’ll be the first to admit our health/insurance system needs repair, but the 2,600 page abomination isn’t it. Not to mention the fact that our so-called representatives voted on it without even reading it (can’t blame them, especially in the short time they had). What do you folks do with your representatives down there that show more allegiance to their party than they do to your nation or their constituents?

      • Jeff

        How many pages would be acceptable? And what would be in those pages? The Republicans want nothing in those pages. They know they have health care and that’s the end of the discussion. For the past 30+ years, the Republican mantra has been: “I got mine, screw you.”

      • ROSINA

        Plus the fact that the House was majority Democrat and they did NOT need republican support. The latter did try to make amendments but were shouted down.
        Add in all the bribes to some democrats who were reluctant to sign (money for various states, bribes to AARP who never asked subscribers their opinion but endorsed it, AMA similarly endorsed it when AMA only represents 20% of doctors (from my own specialist doctor) and OF COURSE, allowing themselves and families to be EXEMPT from the onerous provisions.
        And no one seems to have questioned all the items that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH HEALTH CARE!!

      • MAP

        This will be managed by our corrupt government that made healthcare unaffordable to begin with. It will require more IRS agents and a new bureaucracy with many new government employees. How can it be cheaper when no one is paying all these salaries and expenses at the present time? They don’t at present exist! Further, unemployment is at record highs and many of the still-employed are working below their means because their jobs relocated to the Third World. In addition, illegals are pouring in by the millions with their hand our for whatever they can get for free. All of these (illegals, unemployed, underemployed) will be insured, though they will not have to pay for it. Let me ask: WHO will be expected to pay? The very FEW that still have jobs with a decent salary? You don’t have to be very intelligent to realize this lunacy will fail. It will be a financial disaster of catastrophic proportions.

  • canemah

    For those touting the Canadian system, you might want to look into the increasing volume of private insurance. When you combine the high taxes with private medical, whether complete or medigap, it tends to lose some of it’s shine. Has anyone ever had a conversation with a Canadian without their high taxes coming up. From what I understand, if you send a Canadian resident a gift or any package, you have to open it right there in the post office and pay a tax on it right there. Insane.

    • John

      You do know that Canadian taxes include health care and that Canadian taxes are 30% of what Americans pay for taxes PLUS insurance PLUS deductibles PLUS copays (Canadians have no insurance, no deductibles, no copays, no out of pocket costs)

      In the United States, for taxes plus health costs, you pay three times what a Canadian pays in taxes which INCLUDE health costs.

      • http://N/A Robert CH

        I don’t understand why the discussion of Canadian versus American health care continues endlessly. To compare American healthcare, present or future, with anyone else’s is ridiculous. By all standards our care here is abysmal, but excepting a few recent posts, the elephant in the room is totally ignored. And that elephant is Big Pharma with their lap dogs at the FDA and CDC and a few other agencies. They create a vicious war against supplements and vitamins while blithely killing. over 100,000 a year with their costly prescription meds. All this while delicensing doctors who are brave enough to actually cure patients with “unapproved” methods.

        • Joseph Jeske

          Yes. AMEN to that!!

      • Joseph Jeske

        John, is that so? I would like to know, because I am unfamiliar with your tax structure in Canada, never having lived or worked there. Do you have different tax brackets, or does everyone pay a flat percentage of their income? How much would a person making approximately $75,000 US pay in taxes in Canada?

  • Howard Roark

    I believe that Chief Justice Roberts snookerd the left. first he conned the left in joining him in a 7 to 2 decision that the Interstate Commerce clause could not be used in the way it has been being used. then he joined the left in ruling that Obamma care is a tax, actually a great move. here is why. the procedure used in the senate to achieve the vote for Obamma Care is illlegal to use for raising tax revenue. this negates the bill. second the US Constitution in Article one section seven says “All bills for raising revenue SHALL originate in the House of Representitives.” this also completely negates the bill because the bill originated in the Senate. Justice Roberts was playing chess while the left was playing checkers.

  • Dave

    I’m convinced the Canadian health care system killed Natasha Richardson, wife of Liam Neeson. As I understand it, after hitting her head in a skiing accident, she was given analgesics for headache. Second opinions in government health care are only at government discretion and they wee comfortable with their original diagnosis in spite of family requests.
    Within two months, an 8 yr. old boy I know banged his head on a stair tread while visiting a friend. He complained of headaches and exhibited the same symptoms as Natasha. His mother called the pediatrician and was told to take him to emergency. l saw him two weeks later and he had stitches from the top of one ear, across the top of his head to the other ear. Emergency surgery relieved the pressure in his brain from a hematoma that was caused by the injury. He’s fine now. Natasha could have been also.

    • John

      Did Canadian health care kill Gary Coleman in the middle of Denver with exactly what Natasha Richardson had?

      Did Canadian health care kill Canadian free style skier Sarah Burke in Utah when American doctors refused to operate on her for 5 days on her until her husband raised money to guaranteed payment (since she had no US insurance)?

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS IN AUSTRALIA

        That would never happen in Australia, having to raise the money first. Everyone is covered rich or poor.

        Looks like living in the USA is a health risk,, unless you have lots of ready cash or adequate insurance with a viable insurer and many insuers may in fact be broke these days and you might not know it for a couple years.

    • John

      Natasha Richardson died because of Natasha Richardson, not Canadian health care.

      An ambulance arrived almost immediately to take Natasha Richardson to hospital, AND SHE REFUSED TO GET IN AND GO TO HOSPITAL..

      Natasha Richardson’s decisions killed Natasha Richardson, Canadian health care did nothing of the kind.

  • jopa

    Well the GOP (Grand Obstructionist Party) is going to repeal the ACA again today for the 31st time.Are you feeling lucky? The truth of the matter is most Americans are for the ACA as time goes by and the more informed they are as to the provisions of the act.Time to get over it folks and it also looks like the Canadians won the debate here today in that they have better health insurance than the USA.

    • John

      That’s the point. Canadians do not have “insurance”. All Canadians have outright access to whatever health care our physicians say we need with no out of pocket costs. Canadian doctors tell the government what they will pay, not the other way around.

      Canadian taxpayers are shareholders in Canadian health care, not it’s customer.
      Canadian voters are managers of Canadian health care, not it’s customers.

      The only people who are acted upon like little lab rats, and have absolutely no say in anything, are all those Americans with insurance who have their health care rationed by American insurance company bureaucrats.

      Americans make the mistake of equating “insurance” with the outright access to health care that Canadians have.

      • Joseph Jeske

        Yes, that may be true. But you are still paying for it, in your taxes. It may be better, but certainly it is not free.

      • John

        No one ever said it was “free”, just 30% of what Americans pay for taxes plus health costs, and Canadians have no out of pocket costs at point of delivery and no billing after.

        You Americans pay 3 times as much in taxes plus health costs as Canadians do in taxes which INCLUDE health costs.

        • Joseph Jeske

          Is that so? I can’t say, because I have never worked or lived in Canada. So what is the income tax on someone making $72,500 (US) per year? I am trying to gather information here, not pick a fight. I know nothing about any system but the U.S.

      • John

        The only way that an American would pay less than a Canadian is if that American never went to a doctor and never went to a hospital and never paid for insurance.

      • John

        Someone making $72,000 USD a year in Canada (after the average of $20,000 in income tax deductions) has $52,000 in taxable income:

        15% on the first $42,707 of taxable income, +
        22% on the next $42,707 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $42,707 up to $85,414),

        So you would pay $8405.50 in taxes which include health care, family allowance, and Old age Security (over and above Canada Pension – Canada Pension is like Social Security)..

        • Joseph Jeske

          Thank you for that info. I appreciate it.

      • John

        BTW, not only health care is paid by that taxation.

        Family Allowance is a cheque which parents from the government each month equal to $112 per month per child under age 18.

        Old Age Security is a cheque people 65 and over receive from the government of $550 a month over and above Canada Pension, paid for by taxation.

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        What do Insurance Companies and Casinos have in common? Their both in the gambling business. When it comes to government health insurance, remember, the healthy people lining up on April 15th are assets and the sick people are LIABLITES and what does any successful business do with it’s liabilites? Government must gamble on cutting back on it’s liabilities to satisfy the assets. To what extent will government go to have a successful business? That’s economics 101. The supreme court rules on the constitution as we write it. Something to think about.

    • Paul B.

      jopa, people love the good parts of the bill, which are all the Dems will tell you about. I have seen those surveys, and yes when asked if you like all the good stuff, they agree, but when you sift through the 2,300 plus pages and filter out all the good stuff, you see the nasty details of all the added costs, taxes, restrictions and other controlling features that have nothing to do with healthcare that were crammed into this bill, you get a different picture.

      How about someone doing a survey asking people if they like all the bad parts of the bill that i just mentioned, among MANY others not mentioned. I bet you would get an entirely different response to your survey.

      That is part of the problem with DC, you only hear the parts of these bills they want you to hear, all the good stuff and the lame stream media never question further. they are like salesmen for this administration. Journalism is dead. If they would be more open and honest about ALL the implications of this bill, the people would be better able to make a decision. But that is probably asking too much from them. they are too busy working hard to get Obama re-elected. Bad press is NOT allowed until, well, with them, NEVER!!!!!

      • jopa

        Paul B : Some very good points you have brought up about pork being inserted into these bills.That is one of the more sinister problems that we have in America for things to be inserted into a bill like the ACA.Jack Abramoff was on 60 minutes last Sunday talking about how sneaky they were when they wanted legislation passed in their favor.It was written in a way that only the writer and lobbyist would be able to comprehend what was being asked for and passed.It is just the way they do business in Washington and it would be nice if they all weren’t in on the take.As Lindsay Graham said, we wrote the tax laws and I guess it just sucks to be the little people.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      James Madison said: This Constiution is for the governance of a religous and moral people. If is UNFIT for the governance of anyother. John Jay, the first head of the Supreme Court, said: Only Christians should sit on the bench of this Supreme Court because this Constitution is for the governance of a Christian people. Conservative or Liberal Judges? How far down the road we have come.
      :

      • Joseph Jeske

        absolutely spot on!!

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    If the members of the Supreme Court were honest, they’d run as Republicans and Democrats when they don their robes. To be a supreme court, they’d have answer to the Supreme law, the transcendental law, God’s law. If we recognize that body the way it is, by what right did we go after Hitler and his government?

    • Joseph Jeske

      I would go a step farther. they should vote as upholding the constitution, or not upholding the constitution. One or two have been heard to bash the constitution in public, so perhaps they should not be sitting on the highest court in the land?

  • ROSINA

    When this horrific care was first being talked about, there was a video about the Health Care in Canada. Made by some enterprising young people. It may be on You Tube but do not know for sure. However, i am sure there IS something about this there. It should scare anyone.
    But, as I was brought up under the NHS which promised so much but is just about as degraded as can be, I was not surprised. Just amazed that Canada could descend to such levels.
    This horror MUST be REPEALED and before the election!

    • John

      This recent poll by The Strategic Counsel surveyed both Canadians and Americans.

      When it came to health care, 45 per cent of Americans felt Canada had a superior system, while 42 per cent of Americans thought the United States should stick with its own.13% of Americans had no opinion.

      Meanwhile, the vast majority of Canadians, 91 per cent, felt that Canada’s health care system was better than the United States.3% of Canadians think the US system is better. 6% of Canadians had no opinion.

      If you like YouTube, you’ll love these:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNZsE_esF7s

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez8oQWHK_y

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CST8sRqUOcQ

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TWuO5dBYjo

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS IN AUSTRALIA

        As I have warned the Republicans before…its not a good idea for them to keep bringing up their continual objection to Obamacare,,because the more the matter is debated the more people like you John make references to people like Sharon Palermo on Youtube, the more Republicans and others will come to understand how bad your Private Health Insurance system is in the USA compared to both the Canadian and Australian systems which are far superior and far more cost effective even though its all incorporated in both the Canadian and Australian taxation system.

        I wonder how many private Health Insurance companies operate in the USA to provide their limited health insurance schemes and how many sets of corporate administrators & CEO’s are involved in managing all those hundreds of insurance companies and then imagine if they were all consolidated into one large government department to provide one universal insurance scheme? How many of those staff would you need to run an automated system of paying out claims to doctors and hospitals COVERED by an automated guaranteed source of income from a taxation levy on everybodies income tax? No new tax collectors would be required, yet all those premium accounts collection departments will be able to be disbanded as they will no longer be needed, Imagine the economies of scale in the savings in administration on all levels and the consider the REDUCTION OF STRESS amoungst your citizens when they then all realise that they no longer need to worry about their healthcare costs,

        The doctors and hospitals will no longer need to worry about the money because it will be guaranteed and they then can concentrate on using their skills to save lives and not chasing potential bad debts. IMAGINE THAT!! Imagine how many less people will see the need to steal money to pay for life/death situation medical health costs?

        Every time the Republicans bring up this debate they invite scrutiny and the possibility that the Private Insurance Funds are paying the Republicans to keep them in business, by objecting to the competition of a much superior government underwritten system, Could that be the reason the Republicans are so against the Obamacare system…assumimng it is going to be similar to that in Canada and Australia? I have not read the proposed Bill to know what is being offered, but imagine if they copies the Canadian system exactly…IMAGINE THAT? All of the above is the reason i often recommend the Republicans keep away from objecting to and debating the Obamacare program in the media,

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      I’ve read doctors were polled and 83% are planning on quitting the medical profession. What’s left? What do you call the last one to graduate from doctor school? Doctor.

  • Gary

    This is one anecdote from one person! Perhaps Myers should quit his whining and move permanently to the good old USA where Taxes as a percentage of GDP are higher than in Canada.

    A personal anecdote – My 94 year old father had a replacement hip in less than 24 hours after a fall. Is there warts on the system – absolutely. It is faulty to extrapulate an isolated anecdote and declare it to be an absolute and universal truth.

  • carrobin

    The Republicans must be terrified of Obamacare if they put out obviously false propaganda like this. Which means Obamacare is good for the country.

  • http://overstore Mark edgette

    According to the w.h.o. America is 37th in healthcare lowest pt. Satisfaction rate the worst in the industrial world I am American ” it sucks (expletive deleted) American medicine!!!

  • Paul B.

    What a mix of comments!!! Very interesting with valid points from both perspectives of socialized healthcare. There are advantages, touted by the proponents, and disadvantages described by the opponents. I am sure both exist and are valid.

    How do you meld the best of both worlds? is it even possible? We know that there is not way to treat everyone for every illness… not enough doctor’s, and not enough money, and therefore becomes a balancing act between providing care while keeping it affordable.

    DC controlled healthcare, ObamaCare does neither. Fraught with corruption, waste and cronyism, DC is the LAST place I would put my faith in creating an equitable and effective system. Our politicians use power to control and to get elected, maintaining power. The actual well-being of it’s citizen’s becomes secondary to expansion of influence.

    ObamaCare is a market controlling legislation, it is neither single payer, nor private system. It creates an atmosphere where DC mandates system specifications, then places the burden on private companies to fulfill the promises, often under unreasonable terms and conditions. Private companies will scramble to protect their viability, and DC will push for control to boost their “popularity,” regardless of the impact on the market, the users or providers.

    If DC wants to provide healthcare to everyone, then that should be their ONLY concern. They should then create some system that allows for equal opportunity to provide those services to everyone, remove many restrictions, some tort reform that most socialist countries don’t allow, and government subsidies for the “safety net” pool. Competition is the best CONTROL for costs. the profits made are far less than the waste and fraud from DC administration.

    My concern still comes from expansion of the “safety net”. Like other entitlement programs, as we see with disability, Social security, medicare, etc, we become lax on the qualification controls because it is too easy for politicians to “give value away” which costs them nothing, to voting blocks for political gain. Everyone loves freebies fro DC, but someone eventually has to pay for them, and NO ONE wants to do that. Most are willing to “take care of” the truly needy, but that term, a very subjective one indeed, becomes more pliable than we can afford if left to the whim of politicians.

    That is the balancing act that either makes or breaks a system. No one gets everything they need, as they get only what they must have or if lucky enough, like in any system, in any country, what they can afford. Everyone gets coverage, at least basic patient care, and based upon the policy they “qualify for” which will vary based upon a number of reasons, mostly the type of plan they are in. One size does NOT fit all. DC should allow for everyone normal healthcare access, but does not mean that everyone should have the SAME coverage. It is unaffordable, as we see by debt climbing in socialized systems.

    Entitlements are designed to cover the basics, food, shelter, etc. not for everyone to live in a mansion, eat at fancy restaurants, and have elective surgeries at will. ObamaCare is designed to fit everyone into the same box and that is NOT acceptable to anyone. Those that have to pay for it feel cheated, those that are denied certain procedures, (back to the can’t treat everyone for everything dilemna) feel cheated as well. No one feels satisfied.

    Under ObamaCare, like with other “safety net” programs, those getting it for free continually demand more and more for free, as though it is their right, healthcare for free would create issues that most opponents declare. There must be a happy median that satisfies the basic requirements of healthcare for all, while maintaining the integrity of free market providers, cost control, etc.

    ObamaCAre IS NOT THE ANSWER!!!!! To keep it just because it is better than nothing is WRONG and will eventually be an albatross we wish we would have addressed more practically on the front end… like now. For it will go the way of SS and cost us MUCH more than anyone can accurately anticipate. Few will argue that point.

    • Paul B.

      To add, we must address the addictions to prescription drugs we have. So many of the health issues are from lack of dietary restraint. We eat poorly, live poorly, and rely on drugs to fix everything. Many time the drugs just mask symptoms, not really curing anything. There are so many natural remedies, including better lifestyles, diet, exercise, etc. Our reliance on drugs creates as many issues as they solve. Yes that are some great drugs that work, are required, and are needed, but a vast majority of the drugs we use could be easily avoided through a variety of other methods.

      Drugs rarely “cure” anything, they maintain. We need education, and plans that promote more healthy living. The healthier you are the less expensive it is for you. this way you encourage better living. I have a plan that doesn’t cover prescription drugs, I am 53, healthy so my insurance, with modest $1,000 deductible is about $200 per month. With prescription coverage, that number would double. I occasionally need like a pain killer after surgery, or muscle relaxer if I tweak my back, but I get those for $5 or less per refill.

      We live in a society that is NOT ready for single payer, we object to being forced into dietary constraints, love our drugs, live unhealthy lifestyles, and love to take advantage and sometimes abuse “free stuff.” so trips to the doctor, given that it’s free would overwhelm the system.

      It would require some huge investments in education and culture changes before any such system would have any chance of success.

    • 1776DejaVu

      if obamacare is so great, then why are there so many exemptions given out by the clown in chief. Congress wont dare use the program because they know what its all about. So do the people, but we had to wait for it to be passed so that we American cattle know it all about control. We Americans arent like you Canadians. Wooses to the bone! I live in fla. and lots of Canadians come down for the winter etc….I have spoken to several of them that actually came to America for some kind of medical procedures because of the wait and incompetence of the system and Physicans. So keep that garbage away from the American people. We dont need no stinking Marxist style Medical care for all! We are Americans and are the last free nation on earth. This is just another albotrose put around the necks of Americans that has been soundly defeated by the Citizens of the U.S. that dont want inferior healthcare and total control of how and when we get health care. America has been dupped again by the messiah and his communist czars and congressional commies. That is FACT!!!! fudge packing canucks!!!

      • jopa

        1776;Actually several of your Senators and Congressman are taking advantage of the new ACA in that their children can remain on their insurance while in college and they can stay on it until they are 26 years old.Other parts of the ACA are automatic in covering preexisting conditions and they cannot be kicked off of their insurance because their illness or injury exceeded a certain amount.

      • Tamra A

        Actually, congress will be using the same exchanges as the rest of Americans. They will no longer receiver their federal health insurance, once the ACA in fully implemented. Also, there are many ways to get a waiver for health insurance: not being able to afford it, religious exceptions, or, the best one…..having health insurance already. Small businesses are EXEMPT from providing insurance (under 50 employees), and to those who claim that employers might drop health insur. coverage and just pay the penalty, what’s to keep employers from dropping you all this time??? There has been NO penalty, until this law.

  • John Myers

    Many readers are correct in pointing out that there are differences between the provinces. Almost all of my experiences have been in Alberta. I should also point out that last summer, when my wife became violently ill and had to be hospitalized in Ontario, she could not have received better care; as good as any that I recall in Spokane, Wash.
    Thanks to all of you for reading and posting your thoughts.
    John Myers

    • John

      Alberta has the lowest minimum wage in Canada (only 9.40 an hour, compared to over $10 an hour in almost every other province) and Alberta has the lowest per capita health care spending.

      The main advantage of living in Alberta (or Quebec) is that the legal drinking age there is 18, whereas the legal drinking age is 19 in the other 8 .provinces and 3 territories.

    • Robert Rashbrooke

      Do you not find it totally unacceptable for some HMO to make a profit at the expense of your wife’s Lupus, a truly dreadful illness, one which I feel certain she neither wanted nor induced, and your asthma.

      If we pay high taxes, would it not be better for our government to spend those taxes on OUR health care instead of some of the truly idiotic things they do asctually spend them on.

      It seems that most other countries think THAT is a good idea, irrespective of the actual cost, which mostly they try to control and limit within their means, whereas, here, we allow a private industry to make all the decisions, mostly for their own benefit. Just because we have had this system since the 30′s, does not necessarily make it a good, nor viable, one. Times change, and probably we must too. If the ACA is not perfect, blame it on the politicians, who are too concerned with their own welfare to present us with a good system.

  • ROGER, Irish-Canadian LIBERTARIAN

    Sorry “John”, I was acually referring to John Myers. I have agreed with everything you have said , in fact. BUT… Again back to John Myers…….

    My daughter who lives in South Carolina pays over $100. per week for Health Insurance with a $50. deductible.What kind of nonsense is that???

    If she wasn’t married to an American she would be back in Canada, faster than you could read this message ;-)

    • Scott

      WELL then IF HE WAS a real MAN, he would pack up and move HER to Canada! Does he NOT care a da** abt. his wife or family??????

  • bwhyler

    I think most of the people on this site are completely clueless to the entire problem with Obamacare. 1. Health care is a small portion of the law. 2. It is more of a national ID program than “a Health care law”. 3. It has portions in it calling for taxation of all sorts, including but not limited to a household must drive a battery powered car in the next few years or pay a hefty tax. Obamacare and the Canadian Healthcare laws are totally different. Canadians make much more money than average US citizens and can still buy houses, cars and boats, etc even after paying much higher taxes. Under Obamacare homeownership will be a thing of the past for the masses, battery powered cars are too expensive to own and maintain and usually have a life cycle of 3 to 5 years. Obamacare is a commitment to socialism at it best and actually makes the Canadian program look pitiful in comparison. Taxing people without a healthcare policy, just think about being taxed for not owning a “Chevy Volt”. You people are completely clueless, go back to playing farmville or whatever keeps you busy and not know the TRUTH!

    Americans get ready to live in tents and walking everywhere you go!!!!!!! We are heading toward being like Mexico instead of anything like Canada or Britian.

    • Flashy

      WHAT document are you reading ?????

      • afdbghq

        Flashy – There is a provision in obamacare that starting On January 1 2013 that when you sell your house you are required to pay a sales tax of 3.8% of the total sales price. There are several other hidden taxes that will take effect in the coming years. This is what Pelosi meant when she said you have to pass the law to know what is in the law. What other fees and such will we find out about in the years to come as the people charged with writing the actual laws implementing obamacare do their jobs. Obamacare was about 2500 pages. Already there has been over 10000 pages of regulations written for obamacare and many, many more thousands of pages yet to come.

        • http://gravatar.com/macgyver1948 macgyver1948

          There Is No Obamacare Tax On Most Home Sales. Really.

          We will find out in time but we really have to stop listening to hateful and misguided rumors.

          Take a look at the site I link below. The article is titled “There Is No Obamacare Tax On Most Home Sales. Really.” See who the taxes are on before stuff is believed from those who want to kill ObamaCare because they hate Obama. Then do your own research on the tax and ObamaCare itself, some of you guys seem to think about in ObamaCare.

          http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2012/04/02/there-is-no-obamacare-tax-on-most-home-sales-really/

    • jopa

      bwhyler;You forgot about us Americans having to work on the Newts moon colonies at least three days out of each month to bring back the gold to earth to pay for the ACA.By the way do you wanna buy a bridge?

  • http://twitter.com/athinkr A Thinker (@athinkr)

    This story is what is known in medicine as “anecdotal” evidence. Modern medicine is based on carefully designed studies with statistically significant number of subjects, not on individual random stories. Similarly, science is not based on one data point, but on as many data points as possible.

    The most consistent data that uses the greatest number of data points for evaluating a health care system is (1)infant mortality and (2)average lifespan. Canadians, and most other first world countries have lower infant mortality and longer lifespans than US citizens. And they all pay half or less per person for healthcare than US citizens do. (As noted in the article, it is important to understand that full cost = taxes spent by the govt. on healthcare + individual money spent.)

    I agree with the analysis that we should not have to pay any tax for healthcare if the US government does not provide healthcare for citizens. But I think the example of the overpriced Mercedes vrs. Lincoln more accurately describes our the US overpriced healthcare system compared to most other first world systems.

    I often read and enjoy libertarian articles because they strip away pretenses and make honest careful evaluations. I am hoping that a future article will do this with the US healthcare system, because right now we are stuck paying for a Mercedes that has 3 flat tires, the ride is awful and we are going broke paying for it.

  • Rick Yenney

    Where do you live, in Nordegg? If so you can expect a long trek to a hospital or clinic. The same problems exist in the remote areas of the U.S.. I have lived in both the U.S. and Canada (including Alberta) for extended periods of time and currently live in Florida.If i had to get to a doctor when i lived in Calgary and Edmonton, i rarely had a problem and had no complaints about the quality of care. What you report as experiencing i have experienced in both countries. Try Ouray ,Colorado in the winter time for a trip to the doctor. I agree that “Obamacare” is a disasterous way to attempt to improve the U.S. medical system. However, it needs improvement (as does Canada’s). The U.S. system is to profit driven at all levels and the most expensive, yet not highest rated in the World. Having said all this, i am sorry to say the Canadian sytem is better. Belive me, i am sorry to say this as I wish to remain in the U.S.. it is a better country for other reasons.

  • chuckb

    it’s quite interesting reading the bolsheviks comment on free medical care. canadian medical is not free, you pay one way or the other, up front or by taxation, then you wait , i know of personally two people who died in canada while waiting to see a doctor, one case was six month’s.
    you bolsdhevik types are mostly government dependent wanting a hand out, most democrats are socialist, they want everything for free, housing, medical and education.
    who pays? oh, that’s right, the working taxpayer, taxation, something like barrycare.

    • Flashy

      Who says it is free?

  • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.754 Benjamin Fox

    I drove a cab for over 20 years and most coming from Canada were here to get health care, when we have the same system, where do people go? The decision by the Supreme Court could change the minds of those who voted for it to begin with? Could be a benefit for freedom, if those who vote for this bill, you know who to get rid of at the next election.

  • Lan H

    Those stating the USA has lower ranking than other countries are quoting the 2000 WHO study, which ranked healthcare systems on their degree of socialization, not on outcomes that meant anything medically. Spain, France, and several other nations with high debt and socialized medicine were ranked higher than us for that reason. Remove fatal injuries from the list of causes of death and we are #1.

    • Flashy

      How about the CIA World factbook…we rank right up there at 50th in quality … #1 in spending.

      Rank
      country (years) Date of Information
      1 Monaco 89.68 2011 est.
      2 Macau 84.43 2011 est.
      3 Japan 83.91 2011 est.
      4 Singapore 83.75 2011 est.
      5 San Marino 83.07 2011 est.
      6 Andorra
      82.50

      2011 est.
      7 Guernsey
      82.24

      2011 est.
      8 Hong Kong
      82.12

      2011 est.
      9 Australia
      81.90

      2011 est.
      10 Italy
      81.86

      2011 est.
      11 Liechtenstein
      81.50

      2011 est.
      12 Canada
      81.48

      2011 est.
      13 Jersey
      81.47

      2011 est.
      14 France
      81.46

      2011 est.
      15 Spain
      81.27

      2011 est.
      16 Sweden
      81.18

      2011 est.
      17 Switzerland
      81.17

      2011 est.
      18 Israel
      81.07

      2011 est.
      19 Iceland
      81.00

      2011 est.
      20 Anguilla
      80.98

      2011 est.
      21 Netherlands
      80.91

      2011 est.
      22 Bermuda
      80.82

      2011 est.
      23 Cayman Islands
      80.80

      2011 est.
      24 Isle of Man
      80.76

      2011 est.
      25 New Zealand
      80.71

      2011 est.
      26 Ireland
      80.32

      2011 est.
      27 Norway
      80.32

      2011 est.
      28 Germany
      80.19

      2011 est.
      29 Jordan
      80.18

      2011 est.
      30 United Kingdom
      80.17

      2011 est.
      31 Greece
      80.05

      2011 est.
      32 Saint Pierre and Miquelon
      80.00

      2011 est.
      33 Austria
      79.91

      2011 est.
      34 Malta
      79.85

      2011 est.
      35 Faroe Islands
      79.85

      2011 est.
      36 European Union
      79.76

      2010 est.
      37 Luxembourg
      79.75

      2011 est.
      38 Belgium
      79.65

      2011 est.
      39 Virgin Islands
      79.47

      2011 est.
      40 Finland
      79.41

      2011 est.
      41 Korea, South
      79.30

      2011 est.
      42 Turks and Caicos Islands
      79.26

      2011 est.
      43 Wallis and Futuna
      79.12

      2011 est.
      44 Puerto Rico
      79.07

      2011 est.
      45 Bosnia and Herzegovina
      78.96

      2011 est.
      46 Saint Helena, Ascension, and Tristan da Cunha
      78.91

      2011 est.
      47 Gibraltar
      78.83

      2011 est.
      48 Denmark
      78.78

      2011 est.
      49 Portugal
      78.70

      2011 est.
      50 United States
      78.49

      2011 est.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dan.mancuso.56 Dan Mancuso

    As a Canadian I feel I should comment on this article. First off, spring summer and fall are very pleasant and warm, even in Alberta.
    Doctor shortages are a serious problem, which is why so many people are forced to use clinics or an emergency room, where you can’t make an appointment – 1st come 1st served. Yes the system does coddle drug addicts.
    Since the Pearson/Trudeau axis changed our country into the socialist nation it is now, (late 70′s early80′s) mostly with the forcing of Pierre Trudeau’s so-called Charter of Rights and Freedoms down our throats, as his ‘legacy’, it has changed us from a country based on British Common Law that gave us inherant rights, equal opportunity and moral agency etc. to a country with a codified system of law – socialism – that allows the government to ‘give’ us rights and take them away, equal outcome and moral relativism. For a very detailed and intelligent look at this see William Gairdner’s “The Trouble with Canada…Still” or any of his other well written and researched books, and what Americans should be wary of as your country – in spite of your very intelligent Constitution – is led down the same path to socialism.
    Because of this doctor shortage you have 10 to 15 minutes to see your doctor if you are lucky enough to find one who is accepting patients and you can only deal with one medical issue per visit. All of our health records are now available on the internet – for all to see – in spite of their assurances to the contrary.
    The Canada Health Act came to us in the 1960′s, ushered in by a provincial Premier, Tommy Douglas who was a socialist and who is considered by most Canadians to be a Canadian hero, just like Lester Pearson (The six day war in Israel).
    There are constant attempts to return to a privatized system, so people who can afford it can get the help they need now,like that which existed pre-1960′s, but the socialists, along with the liberal/socialist MSM stymie this at every turn.
    Socialized medicine has also brought us criminally long waits for needed surgury’s, years for some, years! I had to wait 8 months for a hernia operation and don’t lose your place in line. Although there are exceptions to this rule, surgeries deemed emergencies – which are regularly ‘bumped’ for more serious needs, Workers Compensation needs and professional sports figures and polititians, etc.Go figure.
    Because the provinces have jurisdiction over health care there is a patchwork of public, private and various combinations thereof in different provinces and then there are transfer payments between the have and have not provinces. Yes, the medical system is a huge cost to the provinces and the federal government and is reflected in our extremely high tax rates. But I think the latter is more a reflection of the socialist doctrine of ‘speading the wealth’, you know take money from the wealth producers and give to special interest groups and others who don’t earn it.
    Good or bad this does greatly benefit the poor except for some unknow reason there is no coverage for dental and no one in Canada is bankrupted from serious medical problems – if they survive the waits.
    I asked my surgeon once why he practiced in Canada when he could be making 200% more in the states. He replied ,’more likely 400%’, but he didn’t have to hire a collection agent or trackidown his due, himself.
    The “free health care” perception hat Mr. Myers mentioned is a problem that contributes to the huge cost. If people think it’s ‘free’ they tend to be very wasteful of it’s resources. Once when sitting in an emergency room with torn ligaments in my shoulder and blood all over me resulting from a horse wreck, I had to wait for the emergency room doctor to deal with, amoung other things, an adult male who had a pimple on his neck he was concerned with!
    There are many more good and bad aspects of socialized medicine but on the whole I think you should kick that socialist out of the White House as fast as you can and in no uncertain terms if not just for his emporerlike behavior in acting against your constitution by ramming through Obamacare . The same goes for your Congressmen. You have been betrayed, lied to and had your wonderful Constitution debased and devalued by these people. You need to bring back the idea and ideal of a Constitutional Republic. If not just for yourselves and your children, but also for the rest of what used to be the free world. In Canada we don’t have anything like, “WE THE PEOPLE…”
    Dan Mancuso

  • simian pete

    Interesting how the Canadian health system handles Prescription refills ! You would figure it’s cheaper having the Doctors call a pharmacy – they would save alot of time !

    Being put on a waiting list for surgery ! for YEARS ! That’s just CRAZY !!!

    I think the prescription prices are cheaper in Canada ? Progenitorivox any one ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZPZG92iYE4

    HA HA HA !

  • terris

    I have nothing in the ACA that indicates anything even close to a death panel, or limiting meds or prescriptions. If o know what section they we in, I will be able o look them up and see them for myself.

  • Karolyn

    If you took charge of your own health, you wouldn’t have to avail yourself of the pilgrimage you have to take to see a doctor.

    • Johnnyrite

      Karolyn,
      You have never been sick or injured? Nobody in your family has ever come down with an ailment? Incredible! If everyone were like you there would be no doctors, nurses or hospitals. Everyone should envy your perfect health..

      • Karolyn

        I don’t get sick; and if I do, I don’t run to the doctor. Many years ago, before I opened my eyes, I did visit the doctor more often. Once I was diagnosed with Hepatitis C 11 years ago and schooled myself about the dangers of pharmaceuticals and about the plusses of herbs and supplements, I took charge of my health once and for all and only go for a yearly bloodtest to make sure my liver is doing well…..and it has been because I take care of it If more people took charge of their own health and treated their bodies the way they should be treated, there would not be such a healthcare crisis..

      • Johnnyrite

        I am sure those herbs will fix you up just fine if you have a heart attack or are in a car accident.

      • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

        Karolyn, for the first time I agree with you. I agree that person has to take charge of the own health, to learn listen own body and school self about the dangers of pharmaceuticals & I would add about danger of the vaccines.
        I agree” If people took charge of their own health and treated their bodies the way they should be treated, there would not be such a healthcare crisis.”

        “Why does vaccination continue? Ignorance of the “experts”, who do not know or ignore the facts; Mainly the information of vaccinations comes from the Pharma companies (the information comes from the source and not from independed researchers). (2) There are a few independent researches. (3) Vaccine is a MULTI-BILLION INDUSTRY. Therefore there is a “GOOD” reason to continue.”

        If you are interested in the subject, watch the Video: “Vaccination: The Hidden Truth”
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=cqsT5EoIk8U&feature=endscreen
        Also you can Google articles:
        “Physicians Oppose Mandatory Flu Vaccine for Health Workers” and
        “Letter to Colorado Public Health Officials on Mandatory Influenza Vaccine for Health Care Workers”

        Best wishes.

  • Old Henry

    Mr. Myers:

    Up nort dare in Canada do politicians have to “participate” in the same system that their employers are subjected to?

    Remember, down here in the U.S.S.A. the communist scum (KA Democraps) voted to specifically EXCLUDE themselves from the ObamaTax fiasco.

    What good is a “free” car wash in Canada? Don’t your doors immediately freeze shut?

  • Steven(garrick)Archibald-McGreggor

    Canada,not a bad place to visit,but not the place to move to,..unless,you are in the west(and in a large metro area,or near one),..

  • http://gravatar.com/macgyver1948 macgyver1948

    Health care in America has been, at best, ok form many and terrible for many. And then there are those who just simply cannot afford it. Insurance companies tend to charge what they can get away with and cancel when they can. They also intend, as with all corporate execs, charge not only what will take care of their expenses but what will keep them, their Boards and their big investers happy. So I am asking:

    Who is really opposing National Health Care the most? Who haunted their GOP and were fearing Obamacare would prevent them from “doing business as usual”? Who feared:

    (ObamaCare in a kind of nutshell)
    1. that many young adults would be allowed to stay on their parents policies until age 26
    2. they couldn’t go on capping coverage
    3. they would be stopped from canceling a policy when someone gets sick
    4. it would lower the cost of care for those on Medicare and help seniors save money on their medications
    5. it would make insurance companies cover preventative services like mammograms free of charge
    6. strengthens and protects Medicare by increasing penalties for fraud
    7. stops insurance companies from denying coverage for children with per-existing conditions
    8. ends insurance company power to jack up rates without justification
    9. provides Americans with rebates from insurers who spend too much on CEO bonuses or ads
    10. gives tax credits to small business owners so they can afford quality health care for employees
    11. builds and improves 100s of community health centers
    12. gives hard-working Americans tax credits so they can afford insurance begging in 2014
    13. ends discrimination against adults with per-existing conditions beginning in 2014

    Oh wait, these are just some of the destructions Obamacare will cause.
    Now if we could just get rid of the GOP forced inclusions such as “if you can’t afford insurance we will fine you through the IRS until you get insurance it will be even better. Is this a tax for those who can’t afford insurance because it is handled by the IRS? Ask the GOP since it is their’s and also from RomneyCare.

    The Insurance industry feared. Although many insurance companies tried to help make a national health care program I wonder how much they liked the 13 things mentioned above. I bet the Insurance Companies do not care about the “so-called” tax. It might even help the insurance companies if more people do not have insurance and the government fines them, at least until those people feel forced to get it. But the fine might be less than the coverage costs so who knows.

    That GOP inclusion, and others, should be taken out. Oh, Canada has not much on us when it comes to health care even with what we have had.

  • Kelly B

    I don’t know whether Canada or the US has the worst system, but I do know that EVERY US government run program is bankrupt, or getting there, and I don’t trust the government, any one of them, Left or Right, any branch, to be in control of my health. That is MY personal liberty to decide, or it was. So much for freedom in this country any longer! Stop arguing your one-sided stances and get to the REAL point- this government is corrupt and poorly run, every part, every one, including your celebrity Obama and your clueless Mitt, and Congress and Senate too! REAL change needs to happen!

  • John Myers

    I am going to leave off with one last comment on emergency treatment, north and south of the border:
    In 1978 I caught a pass at the goal line but was high-lowed by two tacklers. My knee snapped like a twig.
    As it turned out, I didn’t score. Not that it mattered. I wasn’t some high school star. I was playing flag football with a bunch of has-beens and never will bees.
    That month the nurses in Alberta were on strike.
    I waited six weeks before I could get surgery.
    Ten years later I was skiing at Schweitzer Mountain in Idaho and the same knee snapped again.
    That time things would be different. My wife got me to the clinic in the afternoon where I saw and orthopedic doctor in Spokane. I had surgery the very next day.
    As I was being prepped I met the surgeon and I remembered that he was the same doctor that did my first knee operation at a Calgary.
    I asked him what brought him to the States.
    He said something about a better future. It was then the anesthesiologist pushed the plunger and I fell asleep.

  • Karolyn

    This past weekend a vet told me of peeling off a VA label on his prescription medication bottle and finding a Canadian label underneath. Seems like the VA is purchasing meedications from Canada.

  • Andy

    I don’t care who has it better or worse. I pay for my own health care and do not feel obligated to pay for your,s.

    • Kelly B

      Another good point Andy! Why should we have to pay for everyone else’s issues. We have our own, and we take care of them, right?

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    The government collectivization of health care shifts us from a system where medical professionals diagnose and treat individual diseases to a national system that focuses on prevention and education gimmicks as cost-cutting measures.

    The collectivist health care system is interested in healthy workers, not in patient care.

    Its bosses have their own profit-and-loss ratios and count on keeping people from getting sick. If they do get sick, it is assumed that it is their own fault because they ate too much or ate the wrong things or didn’t exercise enough or just got too old.

    Government health care is a lot like the health insurance industry. Most of the money is spent on offices where bureaucrats measure the cost of care, pinch pennies, deny treatments and study the arcane knowledge, not of medicine, but of the bureaucracy that manages medicine.

    The difference between the two is that the financials on government health care are much more unsustainable, the accountability is utterly lacking and the cruelty and apathy are much greater.

    Few private businessmen still believe that they ‘own’ other people and that their lives can be disposed of, but that attitude is second nature to government officials who not only believe it, but who are obligated to function that way, they are not mere businessmen, but the custodians of the lives of hundreds of millions of people.

    That is the nightmarish essence of government health care. That is the nature of the disease.

    Agriculture in the Soviet Union broke down because the means of production were under the control of a vast army of bureaucrats who understood nothing about farming and whose jobs and survival depended on constantly generating new ideas to improve agriculture and covering up their failures.

    Toward the end of the Soviet Union, the USSR had gone deep into debt buying American wheat even while the overseers at the former “Breadbasket of Europe” were reporting record harvests.

    Political projects, unlike business projects, can never fail.

    The shovel-ready projects are always digging, the stimulus plans are always stimulating, and we are always on the way up—no matter how low we go.

    Businesses measure success and failure in money.

    Governments don’t have that metric. A project doesn’t fail on the financials and it doesn’t fail when it does not achieve its goals or any goals. It only fails when its failure, actual or imagined, is used by the opposition to successfully embarrass those associated with the project.

    In a one-party state or a one-party media, there can be no failure.

    Actual horrific failures can and do occur, but they are not acknowledged except as a mechanism for replacing one generation of politicians with the new generation of incompetents, thieves and buffoons.

    Nothing ever gets better because improving things is not a function of the system, nor does the system have any capacity for improving things except by short-circuiting it through temporary bouts of micromanagement or a crisis that invests the people in the system with a temporary sense of urgency to get things done.

    We all know that bigger is better. The more people you put behind the lines to work out the logistics and decide who lives and dies and the exact schedule for Item D of Subsection 728 of Function Y, the better the system will work and the happier the people will be.

    It is a fallacy that never goes away because turning every human affair into a factory where no one does anything useful seems so reasonable. It’s how so much of our society works. And that is the nature of the disease.

    The bigger a system gets, the less capable of performing a function it becomes.

    The more detached a system is from its direct function, the more it exists not for the sake of the function, but for its own sake. Such a system can be called a disease or a cancer, but it’s also like cholera, an infection of the system that leads to massive waste and eventually the death of the system.

    During the ObamaCare debate, Keith Olbermann insisted that the debate was a matter of life and death. And it is. Universalizing the delivery of a service through a central government system drastically worsens the quality and value of the service.

    If you doubt that, consider the decreasing quality of the educational system as it became more centralized and universalized.

    Now imagine an average quality of health care as bad as the average quality of education.

    Imagine a system based on fraud and cover-ups, rife with resource shortfalls, where the staff is unhappy, the doctors and nurses barely know what they’re doing and most of their efforts are dedicated to trying to keep up with the latest government quality initiatives which can never be met.

    We have bits and pieces of that system in place already, but there are countries that have the whole awful shebang. World powers where patients die pleading for a drink of water and modern socialist utopias battling a disease whose name they dare not speak.

    There is no escaping those results with a commission or two. There is no use putting the best and brightest experts in a room and getting them to author some thousand- page monstrosity that will fix the problem. You can’t cure a disease with more of the same disease.

    Free things are nice to have, but they are also very expensive. Not only do they cost three times as much as a comparable service, but they are so bad that it is hard to find a service to compare them to.

    Walmart is cheap and the products are worth what you pay for them, because even the same brand names sell cheaper and poorer-quality versions of the same products to the giant retailer. That is how it works.

    Walmart squeezes the manufacturer and the supplier and, under the iron law of human affairs, they struggle to maintain consistent profits by providing a cheaper and worse product.

    Now imagine the government as a giant Walmart with offices full of useless employees, armies of unnecessary executives, stores that spend hundreds of millions on advertising without once ever turning a profit.

    Imagine the quality of products and services that such an infrastructure will provide.

    Imagine what comes out the other end after the manufacturers and suppliers have been squeezed to cut costs as much as possible.

    Those are your government services!

    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/47944

    • Kelly B

      Jay, I hope some take the time to read your post. Although long, well thought out and educated response! If people just read, then think (for a moment), they could see how bad this is, what is to truly be expected in the outcome, not what is told to them. We all need to think through things more, which obviously you have done, to get to any real answers. Thanks!

      • Jeff

        Why would you assume that a government-run system would lead to more rationing than our current system where insurance companies are strongly incentivized to deny care?

        • Joseph Jeske

          You make a very good point, but anything government-run scares me, because of the inherent inefficiency in government. Instead of fixing a program, (such as food stamps) the govt will create another program to oversee the first one, etc, etc, and you end up with disaster.

          Perhaps it should be a requirement to serve in congress that you have SUCCESSFULLY run a business. Maybe then we could remove some of the dead weight in Washington.

          • Jeff

            Maybe you should be appointed to “rule” on who should be permitted in Congress. My guess is – they’ll all look just like Romney!

          • Joseph Jeske

            Then you would be 100% wrong, Jeff.

      • Kelly B

        Jeff, why would I assume a government run system “would lead to more rationing than our current system where insurance companies are strongly incentivized to deny care”? Because LOOK at any government run system now! Guess you’ve never had a need, but NO better, just worse! No government run system works – they are ALL bankrupt! Where do you get your information from? Just curious!

        • Jeff

          I think the government can work fine in certain roles. No Government enterprise is going to create the best new 3D TV, but when it comes to delivering basic services, no one can do it more efficiently. Social security and medicare have rescued millions of Americans from poverty in old age. The military seems to work well when used intelligently. And even the much-maligned post office is still cheaper than its private competitors.

          But if you look at health systems in other countries, they seem able to deliver better basic care to more people than we do at a lower cost. Now, our system may be superior at the “high” end (i.e. difficult surgeries, etc.). There has to be something we can learn from other civilized nations to cover more citizens and to offer better care to those on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder (infant mortality, diabetes, etc.) not yet 65.

          If we continue to take the position that the working poor are not worth treating because no one can profit, we can’t really consider ourselves a civilized nation. If I have to choose between Mitt Romney’s taxes staying historically low and more people getting health coverage, I’ll choose civilization every time.

  • http://www.teapartyinfidel.com blained13

    Obamacare is about power and control! We are going to regret if its not repealed.

    • antonio

      Well, you might as well start regretting cuz it ain’t gonna get repealed. It’s here to stay, and if you think anything good is gonna come out of the UN gun ban treaty summit going on right as we speak, think again…
      martial law will be soon…

    • Jeff

      Really? Whose power and control over whom? It’s not about insuring the uninsured – not even a little? Sounds like unadulterated psychobabble to me.

      • Kelly B

        Why are you on this website if you don’t care for personal freedom? Just to hassle some people?

        • Jeff

          I didn’t realize I had to agree with you to comment. Please issue a list of acceptable opinions for this blog.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff…. You said to Kelly B…”I didn’t realize I had to agree with you to comment. Please issue a list of acceptable opinions for this blog”

            That is the best response. For good results from the exchange of ideas we can start with differing points of views and end that way too. All it takes to define it as adult and intelligent conversation is for people to respect the view of others as they would want for their own. Otherwise it might just be people who do not want to solve anything or learn. Closed and insulting minds are wasted minds.

  • Robert Rashbrooke

    My wife gets some of her medications from Canada. They are ALL American made, sent to Canada, and then re imported to the US. And they are MUCH cheaper than she can get them here in the US, even allowing for all the transportation costs. How come? Profit, anyone.

    Whist on the subject of medications, there are many accounts by professional people from different countries, including a Canadian doctor, Queens University, Belfast, et al, that state that Autism occurs almost immediately after vaccinations to previously healthy children. But because of the fear of litigation, ALL governments deny the accusation, even though it is initially the responsibility of big pharma, who produced the vaccines in the first place and then convinced the health authorities that they were ‘safe’. But it is all part and parcel of the ‘treat the symptom, not the cause’ policy adopted by big pharma. We have very little chance of making any meaningful chabges to our health care becuase of the profitability of our present system.

    • Joseph Jeske

      Thank you, thank you, for bringing that up!!! I have a child who has autism, and I believe his disability was caused by vaccines, specifically by the MERCURY in vaccines. If you look back a few decades or so, you will see that autism was called “The Rich Man’s Disease.” That’s because only the rich could afford the vaccines back then!! Now that they are routinely available to everyone, (and required before your child can go to school) cases of autism are on the rise.

      Don’t get me wrong, I know that some vaccines, like smallpox, etc, saved many lives. But do we really need to give our kids shots for chicken pox? Good Lord, I had chicken pox, and I turned out just fine.

      I NEVER get the flu shots, and guess what?? I don’t get the flu, either!! And if I did, GOD gave me an immune system to fight it! And we are compromising our ability to fight disease every day, by using more and more vaccines, and antibiotics, etc.

      • Jeff

        When was it that only the rich could afford vaccines? I was born in the mid-50s and was never rich but am pretty sure I was vaccinated against everything from polio to smallpox, etc.

        I tend to agree that we don’t know the whole story about vaccinations and autism. My belief, unscientific as it is, is that if there’s a connection, it’s with these “shotgun” vaccinations where kids are simultaneously vaccinated against multiple diseases.

        • Joseph Jeske

          Jeff, that may be the only intelligent comment you have made thus far…

  • Robert Jewett

    Thirty – forty years ago, the US Military had totally free health care for all military and their dependents.
    You would really be sick, go to the military sick call. sign in, and sit down and wait. and wait, and wait. Four to six hours later the doctor would see you. with universal free health care.
    We would end up with a similar system. with the low ball amount the government would pay the doctors half of the current doctors would hang up their shingles, the remainder would be overwhelmed with everybody and their sister coming to waste the doctors time with every minor complaint. Doctors would have to see 200 to 300 patients a day.

    • Joseph Jeske

      That is complete and total BULL!

    • nc

      Robert, I started seeing small town “country” Doctors 70+ years ago in their office and I don’t recall a one having a ‘waiting room” with just one chair! “Waiting to see the Doctor” is the American way of life! While waiting is unplesant the most unplesant thing would be to receive a medical bill you didn’t expect without the insurance you couldn’t AFFORD!
      Financially ruined for life for a single $150,000 spine operation on a back you hurt working to provide for your family? We have people who won’t support a plan to prevent that but will support a plan that makes them and the rich richer!!

    • Deerinwater

      Robert Jewett says:

      Thirty – forty years ago, the US Military had totally free health care for all military and their dependents.

      response; Well, it’s true the military was never the place to be sick. ~ but where is such a place? I know of none!

      I checked in for sick call one day and after sitting in this army hospital chair to talk to someone a few hour, I decided to just throw up in their floor and then pass out.

      It worked very well, I was seen to promptly, admitted and show a bed in 10 minutes.

      There something about people laying in vomit on the lobby floor they don’t like.

      It important to understand, we all are going to die of something ~ no matter what is done.

      Between now and then, you do what you have to do. Planing it is nice i suppose while I’ve found few instances that followed the “plan”.

      I firmly believe the US Army almost killed me several times.

  • Thinking About

    As my co-worker is currently going through the first stages in his cancer, he did not have insurance and did not seek timely care for the early signs of cancer and we have people on this site talking about death panels, he is living the result of a death panel for the lack of care. I read the post claiming how many seniors has died as a result of Obamacare, no proof since there has not been action in Obamacare which could have caused death of seniors which are covered by medicare. Show me one death certificate which list the cause of death as Obamacare.

    For those who does not like being forced to buy anything, remember the insured and goverment programs who pays for health care are being forced to pay for those who does not provide for their health insurance and ends up as no payers and that cost is passed on to others. Don’t want to pay for your health care then don’t go to the medical facilities for care unless you can pay the entire bill.

    For those who say they will not be able to pay for health insurance, check on some of the seniors who exist only on social security and some of those receive perhaps $600 a month and are still paying about $100 for medicare, if they can do this then everyone should step up to the plate and pay something also.

    Meanwhile we have the House voting for the 33rd time to repeal ACA but can’t get the jobs bill to the Senate. It is obstruction not construction which is leading to destruction. They are a shameless bunch of do nothings who has health care at our expense.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS IN AUSTRALIA

    I suggest that people die because we all have to deal with Medical Practices so that doctors can continue to practice treating our illnesses with all those new medications the Pharmacuticals companies offer because they offer incentives to doctors like commissions or give them free holidays for prescribing their medications

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS IN AUSTRALIA

    As I have warned the Republicans before… its definately NOT a good idea for them to keep bringing up their continual objection to Obamacare,,because the more the matter is debated the more people like John make references to people like Sharon Palermo on Youtube, the more Republicans and others will come to understand how bad your Private Health Insurance system is in the USA compared to both the Canadian and Australian systems which are far superior and far more cost effective even though its all incorporated in both the Canadian and Australian taxation system.

    I wonder how many private Health Insurance companies operate in the USA to provide their limited health insurance schemes and how many sets of corporate administrators & Corporation Presidents are involved in managing all those hundreds of insurance companies and then imagine if they were all consolidated into one large government department to provide one universal insurance scheme? How many of those staff would you need to run an automated system of paying out claims to doctors and hospitals COVERED by an automated guaranteed source of income from a taxation levy on everybodies income tax? No new tax collectors would be required, yet all those premium accounts collection departments will be able to be disbanded as they will no longer be needed, Imagine the economies of scale in the savings in administration on all levels and the consider the REDUCTION OF STRESS amoungst your citizens when they then all realise that they no longer need to worry about their healthcare costs, ONE LARGE NON PROFIT ORGANISATION. No shareholders to worry about. No dividends to pay and no tax to pay.

    The doctors and hospitals will no longer need to worry about the money or bad debt collections because it will be guaranteed and they then can concentrate on using their skills to save lives and not chasing potential bad debts. IMAGINE THAT!! Imagine how many less people will see the need to steal money to pay for life/death situation medical health costs?

    Every time the Republicans bring up this debate they invite scrutiny and the possibility that the Private Insurance Funds are paying the Republicans to keep them in business, by objecting to the competition of a much superior government underwritten system,

    The question raised might be…Could that be the reason the Republicans are so against the Obamacare system…assumimng it is going to be similar to that in Canada and Australia? I have not read the proposed Bill to know what is being offered, but imagine if they copies the Canadian system exactly…IMAGINE THAT? All of the above is the reason i often recommend the Republicans keep away from objecting to and debating the Obamacare program in the media,

  • GregS

    I could care less about healthcare in Canada. All I care about is the healthcare in THIS Country, and I’m greatly concerned about the damage that will be done to our healthcare if ObamaTAXCare is allowed to become a full-blown ENTITLEMENT in 2014, as if we didn’t already have problems with funding our other two major entitlements: Social Security and Medicare.

    ___________________________________________________________________
    Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! ObamaTAXCare’s got to go! Defeat the Dems to make it so!

    • Deerinwater

      4 more for 44!

      • GregS

        NOT!

  • Michael

    I call BS John Myers. I asked a few friends in Canada about their health care. This response is typical:

    I will confess there are deficiencies and issues within our system….and health care is a provincial issue, so it varies slightly from province to province.

    In Ontario your prescriptions can be refilled with a phone call. And it is done by the pharmacist, in consultation with the doctor.

    if you go to an emergency room, you will have a several hour (3-4) wait. We also have many walk-in clinics open 7 days a week where I have visited multiple times in the last few years and never waited more than 15 minutes. I waited an hour after my appointment time to see my regular guy but he spends time with you, talks to you and in my case chastises me, eat better, exercise more…

    While most doctor’s offices I have seen have chairs (not the missing benches in the story) we have never parked our huskies outside and shivered in the snow awaiting our medical treatment. Maybe at some remote northern outpost but I doubt it.

    At the end of the day, what I find regrettable almost laughable that the most powerful nation in the world is the only one in the western world without some heath care for its citizens. France, Australi, UK, Germany, Sweden, hell even Cuba offer their citizens more that America.

    You author took a few liberties, but what he failed to address was why the priority is bombs and planes instead of maternal care and health for Americans. Why should people have to go bankrupt, lose their homes because their child needs an operation?

    Years ago I had a pianadal (sorry don’t know the right spelling) cyst and I ahd a consult with the doctor who sent me to a surgeon the next day. This was painful, NOT life threatening. I was in and out of the hospital in 30 minutes. I missed half a day at work. One leading Republican used the same medical condition to dodge army duty……

    Cheers,

    C

  • Robert Rashbrooke

    It seems to me that we will be saddled with our private, for profit health industry with all its concurrent problems, mostly because of the enormous profits that the industry makes. If a big pharma company can pay a motorist $100,000 a year to DELIVER medicines to pharmacies, we the people have no chance of changing anything.

    The feel that the current system has been set up DELIBERATELY to be opaque and indecipherable so that fraud of public monies can be facilitated by unscrupulous companies. I can remember three, at least (although at 71 and with onsetting Alzheimers disease I cannot remember names), HMOs that defrauded the government of money to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. Why, even our Florida governor’s company got in on the act! When I was in BCBS, they regularly sent me multiple copies of invoices/demands/payments and on almost every occasion I had to contact them in Jacksonville to find out what their latest missive actually meant and whether or not I had to pay out again.

    Even with the publication of these mammoth frauds, has ANYTHING been done to try to prevent re occurrence of the problem? Probably not, certainly nothing has been made public concerning the solution.

    Perhaps this small example goes some way to explaining why we will continue to be saddled with our current and broken system.

    • Deerinwater

      Feds: Texas doctor among 7 accused in largest health care scam in US
      By msnbc.com staff and news services
      DALLAS — The owner of a Texas-based medical service provider is among seven people indicted in what authorities say is the largest health care fraud scheme in U.S. history, bilking Medicare and Medicaid of nearly $375 million.
      The federal indictment alleges Dr. Jacque Roy, who owns Medistat Group Associates in DeSoto, of leading a scheme that billed Medicare for home health services that were not medically necessary or were not done.
      The indictment alleges that from January 2006 through November 2011, Roy or others in the scheme certified more Medicare beneficiaries for home health services and had more patients than any other medical practice in the U.S.

    • Deerinwater

      BAILEYVILLE —
      CHICAGO — A physician convicted of engaging in a health care fraud scheme at his medical clinic on Chicago’s South Side has been sentenced to federal prison for 2 1/2 years.

      In a news release on Thursday, the U.S. Attorney’s Office says that Dr. Jaswinder Rai Chhibber must begin his sentence in September and pay a $15,000 fine.

      The 50-year-old Chhibber was found guilty by a jury in March of five counts of health care fraud and four counts of making false statements involving a health care benefits program.

      During the trial, prosecutors contended that between 2007 and July 2010 Chhibber engaged in a scheme at the Cottage Grove Community Medical Clinic in which he submitted false insurance claims for unnecessary tests.

    • Deerinwater
  • Deerinwater

    Roberts ruling was on a point of law,~ what government could and could not do. This ruling could apply to any endeavor of governmental leadership. In this case it was health care.

    Why be obtuse in regards to the use of “incentives” to lead and direct. The carrot and stick approach to governing is nothing new, we live with it everyday and have since before you and I was born.

    Roberts sided with the rule of law as it was written, If the outcome fails to give you the desired affect, it is the law that needs review.

    We installed men and women like Roberts for their impeccable judgement and their ability to divorce themselves from the emotional aspects of complex and difficult decision making to render sound unbiased judgement.

    Now ~ not only does the Tea party want to question the the virtues of a democracy, the election process, the authority of the Federal government, the power of the majority but the highest court in the land under a ruse of calling themselves patriot Americans.

    While I too, greatly dislike the over-reach of government and find that it seriously sucks, the tea party sucks more by virtue of it’s stated intent, conflicting messages and inconstant reasoning, rooted in emotions of knee jerk and feel good by feeding a victims mentality.

    That said, I am pleased with the creation of the 2009 Tea Party. Many worthy points of concern have been identified and brought forward by the Tea Party that would not have been discussed without them and it’s good to know how radicals view events that shapes our lives. To know “how people think” is better then being blind to how they think if we have any plans of sharing the same space.

  • Carol

    I have healthcare right here in the good ol’ USA–many of my relatives, who live in Norway had to wait so long for “care”, that once they were diagnosed with cancer, it was probably too late for them.
    So, guess what? I haven’t returned to Norway, now, for almost 10 years, because all of the “good ones”; that I used to go see…are DEAD–they died of their cancer within 2-5 years.
    I was given 2-3 yrs after being dianosed in Jan ’95, with a pretty good prognosis for that amount of time–the 2-3 yrs. … yet here I am–how many years beyond my “expiration date”????? (with, I might add, some very aggressive treatments!)
    I’ll stay HERE, thanks!

    • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

      Congratulations Carol and God Bless you for many years more.
      Proud Naturalized American.

  • http://epic.towergarden.com mo

    America and 23 other countries are able to have Preventive Healthcare to avoid Doctor visits. Eat a plant based diet from your Tower Gardens! Live~Life!!

  • Dave

    To anyone who thinks Gov controlled Healthcare is a good thing, just look at the VA hospitals, long waits all the time. I had visiting nurse ask me about this because she used to work there. ” Are the waiting times still long” I can remember a few 7 and 8 hrs wait times. 4 to 5 typical. This is the experience I had bringing my father back and forth for treatments.
    So no one is going to convince me Gov Controlled Healthcare will be good.

    • Jeff

      Be that as it may, this is not government-controlled healthcare. Private insurance companies will still be raking in enormous profits only with a little more accountability. It is not similar to the VA and not even really similar to Medicare.

  • HH

    I just wonder, ever since the notion of the United States converting to a health care system similar to Canada’s came up several years ago I have NEVER heard, read or seen just one positive thing about the Canadian Health Care System. Not ONE! ALL I’ve ever heard, read or seen are negative things! Now that the Supreme Court has ruled it to be a tax all I here on this “conservative” web site is just how great the Canadian system is! WHAT? All the sudden it’s a great system? I ask one question to you liberal’s that have posted your support here for Obamacare, just how much are they paying you to to post on this website and try to tell us just how great Canadian health care is and how much better off we’ll be in the US if we embrace Obamacare? How much?

    • Jeff

      Millions, what do you think? Who would the “they” be since the people with the money and the incentive to “trash” all government action are on the other side?

      • HH

        It’s that “government action” that’s stripping away all our rights and freedoms! You haven’t waken up yet have you Jeff, or are you one of “those” drawing a check to spread the socialistic propaganda? We don’t need any more government control! More government control means more taxes, those taxes come out of your pocket and mine. The government spends money, it does not generate revenue. We need to get the government out of health care, out of the banking system, out of our homes, out of our lives, out of small business, appeal those ludicrous laws that hinders the small business operator by forcing them to pay enormous amounts of taxes and penalties. If you want to live under government control then move to Canada or England! We used to be a free country and demand our freedoms and liberties back NOW!!!

        • Jeff

          Could you specify the liberties you’re concerned about? You can say whatever you want, go to whatever church you choose, and engage in millions of different activities at any time. The liberty issue seems to come up in the following contexts:

          1. Companies should not be impeded by environmental regulations.
          2. No government action should be taken on behalf of those at the bottom, even if it can be shown to be good for society (or the economy) as a whole.
          3. Banks should not be overseen by a regulator.

        • http://gravatar.com/macgyver1948 macgyver1948

          HH… Yes, we do need smaller and much less intrusive government. We can add telling people how to run their bodies and suggesting what religious beliefs are good for them.

          We need smaller Government but we must do that with compassion and prudence. We also cannot just trade ‘Big Government’ for ‘Government of the Corporate People’. That would be not only be an insane trade for “We The People” but it would not be what is in line with what the Founders wanted. They feared corporations and the money control they can yield on our so-called representatives. It was almost as though they could see into the future because they are so right even today. I bet they would hate anyone who said “Corporations are people too”. :-))).

          • Jeff

            HH (how did he get those revered initials?) thinks if you disagree with him, you must be on welfare. Yes, HH, I collect welfare in all 50 states and use it to make my Ferrari payments.

            It’s amazing how these guys like to quote the founders in support of everything they believe. What do you think the founders, particularly Jefferson, would have thought of multinational corporations with the economic power to destroy states and even nations? What would they have thought of international trade and outsourcing?

            My guess is HH thinks they would have agreed with him. Like people quoting the Bible for whatever cockamamie idea they have.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… It is so amazing how so many people who do not know others assume what they want to know because those others have the nerve to not agree with them. That is not America or how it is meant to be.

            Over the years I have been told what I think when I never thought ‘that’ way. I was told my belief system, my religion, is so wrong since it wasn’t what they wanted me to believe or think. I am going to hell because I will never accept Jesus or I am on welfare because I am not on the same side of the aisle as they. I never received welfare and I never needed to. A sure sign of brainwashing or just plain ignorance is when people who do not know you tell you how and what you think and also tell you how wrong your life is. They spice it up with kindergarten mentality insults and I think that all is to make them fell better about themselves.

            America means accepting how others believe and think, not judging and insulting for the differences. We kicked England out for many reasons but one was so we each could be who we are and for us to accept that in others. If we are not this way how are we Americans better than any other country in history who didn’t treat each other with that kind of respect?

            I do not have a problem with people quoting their bible at the right times and in the right places, as in all-the-way-around-wanted discussions. But I will never be happy with people who insist “only their way are right” or “only their interpretations of their scriptures are right”. To many different churches see it differently of many of the same scriptures so who really is right?

            Another thing I am uncomfortable with is when people go into my bible and re-define my bible’s scriptures, so very often out of context too, seemingly for the purpose of proving something of theirs. It never really works so I usually let them talk it off until they get nasty because I wont “see their wisdom”. In that with me they have always been wrong but if they read that entire bible book they might just realize it – maybe if they open their minds. It is the way of the “only we can be right” people and it has been going on for ever it seems. The funny part is their bible is not a continuation of my bible but they took it, changed the name and redefine a lot of it. Some politics and some religion is what that is all about.

            You end with “What do you think the founders, particularly Jefferson, would have thought of multinational corporations with the economic power to destroy states and even nations?”. If more people would read American history for themselves they would know the Founders were opposed to Corporate confluence in government. Corporate money in Government has to end… I end this with what seems to be my favorite quote lately along with some of my other 2 cents. :-).

            “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” – Thomas Jefferson

            Thomas Jefferson and others were very much in favor of “Separation Of Corporation And State”. How very wise to this day they were. We need to know more of the Funders, as they really were and not how they are being phonied up to us today by the Right to support themselves against us.

            Oh, can I have one of your Ferraris? LOL.

      • HH

        Sorry for typo…. “We used to be a free country and “WE THE PEOPLE” demand our freedoms and liberties back NOW!!!

      • HH

        HH (how did he get those revered initials?)………… my mother?

        Jeff, you asked, “Could you specify the liberties you’re concerned about? You can say whatever you want, go to whatever church you choose, and engage in millions of different activities at any time”.

        Jeff, that just shows how little you actually know about personal liberties and freedom.

        Obama care? Giving me NO choice? If I am wealthy enough to pay for my health care without needing insurance then WHY should I HAVE to purchase health care insurance?

        How bout the UN Small Arms Treaty? Clinton and Obama are now trying to get in through the back door using the UNSAT because they know Americans will not willingly give up their guns? I have a concealed weapons permit which means that I was investigated by the FBI before being issued that permit BUT I am still regulated as to where I can or can’t carry my weapon? It’s my constitutional right to keep and bear arms, why should I even need a CCW permit?

        How about the Gay/Lesbian issue? If you want to be a queer that’s up to you just keep it to yourself. Don’t enact laws that require me to acknowledge your sickness or use my tax dollars to fund rallies to promote your perverted cause.

        AND the coup de gras……………. Presidential Executive Orders?

        There are hundred’s if not thousands of them that were issued as far back as Andrew Jackson, here are a few EO’s that can at any time strip us of our rights with just the stroke of the presidential pen……..

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 11490: Establishes presidential control over all US citizens, businesses, and churches in time of “emergency.” (This order is where we lost our freedom!)

        EXECUTIVE ORDER 12656 appointed the National Security Council as the principal body that should consider emergency powers. This allows the government to increase domestic intelligence and surveillance of U.S. citizens and would restrict the freedom of movement within the United States and granted the government the right to isolate large groups of civilians. The National Guard could be federalized to seal all borders and take control of U.S. air space and all ports of entry.

        Take also the (Violent Crime Control Act of 1991) which; provides additional powers to the President of the United States, allowing the suspension of the Constitution and Constitutional rights of Americans during a “drug crisis”. It provides for the construction of detention camps, seizure of property, and military control of populated areas. This, teamed with the Executive Orders of the President, enables Orwellian prophecies to rest on whoever occupies the White House. The power provided by these “laws” allows suspension of the Constitution and the rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights during any civil disturbances, major demonstrations and strikes and allows the military to implement government ordered movements of civilian populations at state and regional levels, the arrest of certain unidentified segments of the population, and the imposition of Martial Law.

        Please define “drug crisis”?

        I COULD GO ON AND ON…………………………..

        “Since the enactment of Executive Order 11490, the only thing standing between us and dictatorship is the good character of the President, and the lack of a crisis severe enough that the public would stand still for it.” Howard J. Ruff, arch-conservative activist.

        Take into consideration that our current president has NO character!

        THESE ARE JUST A FEW OF THE PERSONAL LIBERTIES I’M CONCERNED WITH!

        • Jeff

          Excuuuuuse me. I didn’t realize personal freedom was all about you. If the people of New York City, let’s say, want freedom from guns brought into the City from the badlands of South Dakota, does your “James Bond” “license to carry” supersede their rights? Who makes these decisions? In a complex society, the answers to these questions aren’t always so simple. And it’s not just a question of freedom vs. tyranny. It’s whose freedom is more important in a given situation.

          What’s more important – my right to buy food in the grocery store that’s been inspected and is free of deadly disease, chemicals, etc. or the freedom of some manufacturer to can his tomatoes as he sees fit with no interference from the government? If we still lived in Jefferson’s time of small farmers and shopkeepers, life would be a lot simpler. We don’t. Get over it.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff…. “What’s more important – my right to buy food in the grocery store that’s been inspected and is free of deadly disease, chemicals, etc. or the freedom of some manufacturer to can his tomatoes as he sees fit with no interference from the government?”. That is one of the most excellent questions of the last maybe 100 years and more.

            In this corner, on the RIGHT, we have the corporations who want all government regulations gone so they can lower their expenses and take care of business. TEA/John Birch Society/The Koch Like, with loads of help from their friends, The GOP, want what they want.

            Not just with your very important “grocery store” question but with so many things. Koch/TEA want the elimination of The EPA so they can not be concerned with all the damage they do so their expenses are to a minimum even at the cost of the environment (land/water/air) and peoples health. I believe The EPA needs some reform but those of us who want to breathe clean air, drink clean water and eat decent food need an EPA. And Groups like Citizens United will help make this a “Government Of The Corporate People” at all our expense – Thanks Supreme Court for that one with their privatizing public donations. Let’s all get very wealthy so we too can buy government officials so our big corporations will get all they need.

            Is there anyone who still thinks the FDA is in business to protect us? Ask a couple of questions. Have you watched and listened to the Pharmaceutical commercials lately? If you want these symptoms that could kill you or give you other major health issues buy our product ← the disclaimers.

            Next. Why, if the FDA gives a damn about us, is tobacco still legal? With all the primary huge money coming from the tobacco industry itself into government and then the secondary industries’ money benefiting from all the diseases and death caused by tobacco are we still wondering? Some of the secondary industries who benefit from Tobacco, and so does Government, – The Pharmaceutical Industry, The drug stores, Hospitals and doctors, Lawyers and let’s not forget the undertakers. CDC and others say about 540,000 Americans die every year from tobacco related causes. Also about 45,000 annual American deaths are from second hand exposures.

            Jeff, and this goes for anyone, your question is very important but it needs to be broadened. The Corporations get by with a LOT of help from their friends in government but they want so much more. With Romney we get that more for the corporations. If any of you do not like Obama vote for someone you think will be somewhat for us but Romney is not all for us.

            One last thought. Tobacco is legal for the same reason marijuana is illegal. It’s what the big corporations want so they got it. Big corporate money getting out of Government will help but in the mean time all donations, from whom ever, must be public when it goes public. Show me the donor!!!

            Oh, Jeff, you ended with “If we still lived in Jefferson’s time of small farmers and shopkeepers, life would be a lot simpler”. True but I also believe if the Founders were to some how come to our time and catch up they would shoot anyone who says “Corporations are people”. The Founders feared Corporations and their huge influence. They were so smart to this day.

          • Jeff

            Exactly. The ultimate dodge for someone like Romney to justify his odious business conduct is “it’s legal.” Well, why is it legal? Likely because the laws and regulations, particularly the tax laws with respect to debt financing, were written by corporate lobbyists. I heard Romney today criticizing Obama for emphasizing the collective nature of much capitalist activity. For Romney of all people to deny the role of government in his success is truly amazing. He invented nothing; he created nothing; he made most of his money because of his facility in manipulating and influencing arcane tax laws favoring debt financing over other forms of finance. Look at what Bain did to KB Toys – loaded the company with debt, most of which went directly to Bain, followed, inevitably, by the liquidation of the company. That was the model followed too often by Bain and others – not the more legitimate financing of start-ups like Staples.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… An investment firm is in business to make the investors very happy, and of course themselves. In the case of Bain they buy businesses even if they see failure but with potential for their purposes. If the failure of that new property will make Bain and their investors more money they will fire all the unnecessary people and sell off whatever assets they can. Well, all the employees are “unnecessary” to them if huge profits are the result. That is what they do.

            Romney is so insensitive to other people if a big buck can be made. He proved it so very often. I know of several small business owners around the country, and they know many more, whose business Romney “invested in”, and then killed their futures because he wanted to fatten his bank accounts, wherever those are, and to have his investors ask him for more. Here in Kansas City he killed a nice size employer for the Bain reason. That was a Steel company who Bain dumped – over 2000 people and their families became income-less.

            I suppose the TP/GOP will say it was their fault be becoming UN-employed. People/employees are disposable assets to him. Is this kind of man really of God?

            I continue to say if Romney is elected he will Bain all of us who aren’t his big inverters. Koch will love him and the outsourcing will rise…

          • Jeff

            My view of Romney is he was a prick as a young guy and has become a bigger prick as he’s gotten older and richer. As a college freshman, he demonstrated in favor of the Viet Nam war. Who did that? Plus, he made sure his rich butt was safe from the draft with Cheney-like deferments.

            Also, he never took a stand against the Mormon Church’s position with respect to Blacks although he was a prominent enough member to have made a difference. The policy changed only in 1978 because of Money. BYU was the South Africa of the NCAA and the boycott was hurting the bottom line.

            So, his activities at Bain are the natural progression for someone so unconcerned with other people. To Romney, a policy is a good one so long as it benefits him. He has no empathy for anyone different from him. Very unlike his father who was one of the last “good” Republicans.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… I know what you are saying.. .I am not sure who supported the Vietnam war but I saw the dam thing while in the Air Force. We should never have been there but if people saw what was going on I too do not know why any would support it.

            I have always have and always support other religions equally but there are some things done by some Mormons I will never tolerate if they are true. The bigotry you mention against blacks is one.

            Another I heard so I do not know how true it is. News stories indicated some Mormons would get into Funeral parlors and else where and commit what I strongly feel is a Constitutional violation and even more then that. The stories say they performed baptisms on Jewish corpses. Those who do that belong in prison. How would they feel is people so severely violated their religious beliefs? I wonder if Mitt would not only approve but maybe participate.

      • HH

        Jeff your ignorance is showing, “personal” freedom IS about me AND you, that’s why it’s called “PERSONAL” FREEDOM!!! You just don’t get it do you?

        You say, “does your “James Bond” “license to carry” supersede their rights?

        According to the US constitution YES IT DOES!!! It’s my right to keep and bear arms NOT their right to tell me I can’t. According to the second amendment that right SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED! The second amendment was ratified to keep a federal OR state government from enacting laws that would prohibit us (law abiding citizens) from keeping and or baring firearms. Citizens with out firearms are no longer citizens they are subjects (slaves).

        Look Jeff, I’m not James Bond, Matt Dillon OR Jessie James. I don’t carry a gun to scare you or anyone else, I’m not going to rob a bank or convenience store either. It’s for personal protection because there are so many lawless criminals who have illegal guns I would like to be able to meet force with force and unless you threaten me you will never even know I have it.

        I just wonder how many folks died “back in Jefferson’s” time from food poisoning after eating canned food that THEY prepared themselves? I’m not opposed to certain regulations that keep food and water supplies safe for consumption because negligence from present day food suppliers can threaten thousands of people. I know where you are going with this so I’ll just tell you now, there is a big difference in keeping the food supply safe and me having a gun, my gun is of NO threat to you UNLESS you threaten me! GET OVER IT!!!

        • Jeff

          Your gun certainly is a potential threat to everyone. Do you think there’s a special Acme Gun Co. that makes guns for criminals and drug dealers? Every gun used in a deadly shooting, presumably only by bad guys, began its life as a legal gun in the hands of someone looking to protect his family. Then, his 5 year old gets it or it gets stolen in a burglary or it gets sold at a gun show. Bad guys get guns because there are so freaking many of them out there.

      • HH

        “Your gun certainly is a potential threat to everyone”.

        Really? So is that teenager behind the wheel of a 4,000 lb car, so is the water heater in your home, so is that gas grill you cook on, so is that tree in your yard that could drop a limb on your head at anytime, so is that airplane that flies overhead and could crash into your house and kill your whole family, so is that knife you are carrying from the kitchen drawer to the dining room table when you trip on the edge of the carpet and it stabs you in the chest, so is that………………… do you get it yet? Probably not, I don’t believe you have enough common sense to “get it”! Living life has countless “potential” threats, do you want to ban EVERYTHING? The government can’t protect you from all these “potential” threats!

        “Every gun used in a deadly shooting, presumably only by bad guys, began its life as a legal gun in the hands of someone looking to protect his family”.

        One of the most ignorant statements you’ve made so far! Most guns are manufactured for the military for the sole purpose of KILLING THE ENEMY, a majority of guns are made solely for the sport of hunting and target shooting. Few guns are manufactured only for self defense although that number has risen dramatically since Obama got into office…… I wonder why?

        “Bad guys get guns because there are so freaking many of them out there”.

        Yea and they ain’t going away any time soon you can count your bottom dollar on that! And I assure you, you don’t want ONLY the crooks and cops to have guns because the cops can’t be around ALL the time to protect YOUR sorry but!

        • Jeff

          Apparently, you do not disagree with my factual assertion about the number of guns. You say I’m ignorant because I disagree with you about the importance of guys like you carrying guns everywhere. I don’t consider that ignorance at all. I wasn’t referring to AK-47s but to handguns.

          • HH

            “Apparently, you do not disagree with my factual assertion about the number of guns. You say I’m ignorant because I disagree with you about the importance of guys like you carrying guns everywhere. I don’t consider that ignorance at all. I wasn’t referring to AK-47s but to handguns”.

            How could I disagree with your “assertion” about the number of guns in the world? Thousands of manufacturers around the world make thousands of guns every day! For me to disagree with your “assertion” would show me to be the ignorant one! Not so!

            I’m not afraid of how many guns are in the world I’m afraid of WHO has the guns. Guns have been around since LONG before our grandparents grandparents were born and no gun law can or ever WAS intended to abolish ALL guns. You disagree with me about the “importance” of guys like me carrying? You don’t even know me! The FBI feels like I’m competent enough to carry or they wouldn’t have issued me a permit! THEY have investigated my background, you haven’t. It’s MY constitutional right to carry a gun and you don’t have a constitutional right to tell me I can’t!

            And NO Jeff, I don’t consider you ignorant because you disagree with me, I said you’re ignorance was SHOWING because you don’t understand that “personal” freedoms ARE about ME and YOU! That’s why it’s called “personal” freedom! Me carrying a concealed weapon does NOT rob you of your “personal” freedom! Laws that tell me that I CAN’T carry a rob ME of MY personal freedom……. You still don’t get it do you?

      • HH

        Laws that tell me that I CAN’T carry “a” rob……..

        SORRY, drop the “a”

        Laws that tell me that I CAN’T carry rob ME of MY personal freedom……. You still don’t get it do you?

        • Jeff

          Yeah, I get it. Where’s the mystery? All laws rob people of some personal freedom. Speeding laws rob you of your personal freedom to drive as fast as you want. Do you want to get rid of all laws? What’s your point?

          When you live in a society, everybody has to give up certain freedoms you might have if you lived alone on a desert island. The issue is ALWAYS about the balance between personal freedom and societal needs (e.g. safety).

      • HH

        Last comment to you Jeff because you really don’t “get it”, and no, there is NO mystery.

        “All laws rob people of some personal freedom”…………. “When you live in a society, everybody has to give up certain freedoms you might have if you lived alone on a desert island”…………….”The issue is ALWAYS about the balance between personal freedom and societal needs”.

        Private (law abiding) citizen gun ownership helps to balance the scales against the criminals who have illegal guns! Take away our legal guns and the scale tips to the side of the criminals who are now being held somewhat in check, because without private gun ownership the criminals would have pretty much “free reign” to pillage and loot because they would know law abiding citizens would no longer have a gun to defend themselves with.

        So I ask, what personal freedom would YOU loose if my guns were confiscated? You FOR SURE wouldn’t gain any because criminals will still have theirs!

        • Jeff

          Tell it to George Zimmerman at your next meeting.

  • Uncle Sam

    Obama is a killer now and will always be a killer and his (expletive deleted) Health (expletive deleted) plan will kill off the old, the young, babies, will not cover Autism, will kill people by having a death panel to decide if you should live or die and your death is a wonderful thing for them. The Eugenisists think they are winning with their sterilization of the world and having all of you kill your babies through Abortion. You are as sick as this FAKE SOB we have in Washington and the 534 others who are thinking of more ways to kill us. Go to a Christian Healthcare plan or the Catholic Healthcare plan. They will give us Chiropractic, Homeopathic cures and Accupuncture. We don’t need a million f-ing drugs pushed on us thru the TV and RADIO. All these people are pushing DEATH. It’s death to them when the citizens take up arms and destroy The (expletive deleted) who are doing all this killing. Off with their HEADS NOW!

  • Uncle Sam

    Canada’s and the other Socialist gov’ts healthplan is just another way to fleece the citizens, just another way to take your hard earned living and extort the money Mafia style into their coffers. Don’t you see the way they want to control the world by FASCIST Tacktics? Wake up America, we’re going down if you don’t seek the truth of this corruption going on and aided by every lame stream media source there is. WE can no longer take this and we will fight to save our country. Vote against the Democraps and the Republicrats who are all the same. It’s sickening and disgusting and we want our money and our land and our privacy back you stinking, rotten bastards in Washington. Listen to us or die.

  • karen

    Interesting debate going on here. I am Canadian. I have a family doctor. My doctor is wonderful. I am never left waiting hours on end in her waiting room. If she suspects I have a problem, she orders the tests to investigate it. If there is a problem, it will be dealt with. No hospital in the province would turn me away stating that they don’t accept my insurance company. I can go to any hospital in the province of my choosing. and the cost to me? Nothing. How much better can it be than that?

    • Jeff

      Karen:

      Always good to hear someone who knows what she’s talking about debunk the nonsense you so often hear about the British and Canadian Health Care Systems. I’ve even heard it said that it’s a good thing Stephen Hawking is not dependent on the British Health System to keep him alive. You can’t make this stuff up. Like Bush saying the trouble with the French is they have no word for “entrepreneur.” Alright, that one may have been made up, but it sounds like him.

      So, you have national health care and you don’t spend your life waiting in line for aspirin? I’m shocked to find out that some of these right wingers don’t know what they’re talking about.

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