Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty
 

Walker Signs Measure Stripping State Workers Of Collective Bargaining Rights

March 15, 2011 by  

Walker signs measure stripping state workers of collective bargaining rightsWisconsin Governor Scott Walker has signed a bill that eliminates most collective bargaining rights for State workers.

The legislation was signed on March 11, one day after the State Assembly passed the measure by a vote of 53-42. On March 9, the Senate approved the legislation after removing the collective bargaining provision from the spending bill, which allowed lawmakers to act in the absence of 14 State Senators.

"People spoke very clearly and very loudly [in the midterm elections] and said they wanted government to change here in Madison," said Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald (R-Horicon), quoted by FOX News. "It's a tough vote, but it's the right vote. People are sick of the status quo."

According to the media outlet, the Justice Department said that it was investigating several death threats that were allegedly made against Republican State Senators. Protests outside of Wisconsin's State House have become tumultuous in recent days, and former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin has placed the onus on union supporters.

The Tea Party favorite recently claimed that union bosses are spewing rhetoric that could lead to violence. In a February post on Facebook, Palin accused the union leaders of "fighting to protect their own powerful privileges and their own political clout," CNN reported.

Special To Personal Liberty

You Sound Off! is written by our readers and appears the last Wednesday of each month. If you would like to submit an article or letter to the editor for consideration for You Sound Off!, send it to yousoundoff@personalliberty.com by the Friday before the last Wednesday of the month. To be considered, a submission should be 750 words or less and must include the writer's name, address and a telephone number. Only the writer's name will be published. Anonymous submissions will not be considered.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “Walker Signs Measure Stripping State Workers Of Collective Bargaining Rights”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • http://yahoo.com Kenny

    I’m GLAD!!!!

    • Kane

      Amazing that the industrial complex has convinced so many people that teacher and fire fighter unions and the like are responsible for the state of our nations debt and excessive decadence. The elite rich have to be laughing all the way to the bank as we sort through this distracting situation as they steal even more money from us. What is going on behind our backs while we bite each others heads off? We’re a bunch of monkeys in a cage and one found the exit so we beat it to death because it won’t show us the way out. Check out what the Coke brothers have in store for WI while they have the Republican controlled legislature and while everyone is distraught over this vote.

      • Eddie47d

        The power of government authority has spoken and that authority has been accepted.

        • Bert Cundle

          Government is expanding the “ROAD GANG”… & Keeping the $ for themselves…( MO MONEY, MO MONEY, MO MONEY…)

        • dstk

          The people in WI were lied to… no surprise there! I live here I know, and many, many of those protesters are Republican, neighbors, friends, family!

        • Bert Cundle

          And wate until the Refugees come from Japan, And do our jobs for a Bowl of rice & a barn for shelter!

          • Eddie47d

            Just what American businesses want,cheap labor.That would be a double win for them.

          • Bert Cundle

            And I Guess Our Gas Prices Wil go Up too… Beacuse of the reduction of gas need in Japan!

        • http://naver samurai

          The vigilance to ensure that government remains our servants and not our masters. This includes state level governments. This just saved the state money, shrank the size of government, will make it more possible to pay off state debts, and could also lead to the lowering of taxes for WE THE PEOPLE. How can you ignorant left wing extremists think that this is bad? Unions have gotten too big and its about time someone stood up for what was right and took priviledges from the unions. What ye sow, so shall ye wreap. The unions sowed the seeds of discord and mistrust, so they wreap being stripped of the priviledges they say they have earned. Good job Governor Walker, fellow patriot! I hope Governor Daniels in Indiana does the same thing in the near future. FOR GOD (not unions) AND COUNTRY!

          • Jana

            samurai,
            Yes, yes, yes!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Thank you Jana. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Bert Cundle

            What God & What Country?? United States Is ( SHOULD BE ) A UNION ! ! ! GOD? To many Things Called God; to know what you are talking about ! ! !

          • http://naver samurai

            Ben, you’re a moron. Everyone knows that FOR GOD AND COUNTRY is a patriotic saying, for longer than the U.S. has been a nation. Second, when I said NOT UNIONS I didn’t mean the U.S., I meant the UAW, UMW, AFL-CIO, etc. Do you understand now? Third, what do you mean which God? It’s obvious that you aren’t a Christian and know nothing about our Christian founding. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Bert Cundle

            Hay Ching Chong… HOW WELL DO YOU KNOW A.F.of L. / C.I.O.??? Obviously NOTHING, Unless you hate orgnized Unity. ( LOVE K-OSS )

          • Bert Cundle

            It’s obvious that you aren’t a Christian and know nothing about our Christian founding. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!/////////////\\\\\\I KNOW MORE ABOUT THE CHRISTIAN GOD THAN YOU DO!!! THAT IS WHY I REJECT THE CONNECTION YOU REFER TO. (Christian & God!)If You had studdied the rest of the Religions of the World, as much as I Have, You Could be as inlightened!

          • Eddie47d

            Walker sowed the discord by lying about his intentions. That sneaky little devil.

          • http://naver samurai

            Bert, it seems that you don’t know as much about as I do. If you did, then you would know that I was talking about the Judeo-Christian God and not any other. Second, God and Jesus are a part of our Christian beliefs, part of Christianity, and these beliefs are the bedrock of our founding, so get over it. Third, you say you know more about unions then I do? Since I’ve never worked for a union my knowledge of their daily operations isn’t that much. My wife knows more about them, as they keep trying to send reps from the Nurses Association to her hospital to unionize the hospital. She always refuses to join. Fourth, you say you have studied more religions and more about them then I have? I beg to differ. I’ve experienced muslims and their false faith first hand in Afghanistan and Iraq, in which I don’t think you went to the Middle East. If you know so much, then tell me what “First comes Saturday, then comes Sunday” means. What is Tiqiya? What does the Koran say about dealing with non-believers? I’ll be waiting for your answers. Edduh, how do you know the governor had some hidden agenda? They’re doing the same things in Indiana and Mitch Daniels had no agenda when elected and re-elected. So how do you figure? Can you cite a source for us and not one that is pro union? Just look at this site for info on unions:

            http://www.nrtw.org

            FOR GOD (No other false god) AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver samurai

            You can also look at:

            http://www.workerfreedom.org

            하나님 하고 나라를 위해서! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • dstk

        absolutely correct!!

      • Ralph

        To Kane

        Police and Firefighters are not affected by the bill.

        • JeffH

          Ralph, you shouldn’t upset the apple cart by telling the truth.

        • Jovianus

          Ever wonder why they were exempted? methinks they’ll be included i the not so far future seeing as they opposed this legilsation and went against the good governor and his controllers

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Not yet…..

          The road to recovery had to begin somewhere….

          • Warrior

            Agreed,

            I’m fed up with being taxed to death and knowing that I will be forced out of my home. Not by the Koch Bros. or any other business but by the sweetheart deals given to all the patronage people working on behalf of the good old democrap party. Amazingly, the only people in my neighborhood who are retire and under the retirement age are………public school teachers! Suprise, suprise, suprise Gomer.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Ralph,
          Police and Firemen shouldn’t be ABLE to strike! thier job effects too many lives. If they are allowed to strike, then they should be able to be sued if you lose your home or a loved one because there was no one on duty!! I don’t mean sue the city, either. I mean sue the unions and the strikers!! there are a lot of losses from a house fire that insurance won’t or can’t cover!!

          • http://n/a Gaffer

            The way you used the word, it should be spelled with an ‘A’ = affect. If you prune a bush you will affect its appearance, but a good pruning will have no effect on its health.
            Regards,
            Gaffer

      • Gloria Jimenez Ross

        Speak for yourself; I don’t consider myself a monkey and this is not about the elite rich. These Unions who the members think protect them are nothing more than Organized Crime; With a little bit of effort and giving up some of your time, you can represent yourslf and bargain for wages and benefits without having the money that goes to the Unions as your dues “stolen” from your paycheck for them to represent you. Once upon a time, back in the dark ages there was a reason for Unions but Unions now and since the 30′s are not about reprsenting and/or protecting members, but about making themselves rich, very rich and about POWER. Don’t take my word for it, research videos of that disgusting Trumka and hear the words out of his own mouth, when he speakss about why he joined organized labor “I did not join organized labor for the sake of the workers, I joined for the POWER.” His words, again, do your own home work and get the starsout of your eyes. These Union bosses are THUGS who should make Chicago proud and are responsible for the INELIGIBLE USURPER having been installed in the White House, which puts him in the middle because now, in his own words (Obama’s) “I owe these guys.” Well, the American Citizens who want a balanced budget and who want corruption out of government, starting with Obama, do not “owe these guys.” Again, do your own homework. I hope you like living in a cage and smelling like a monkey; I know I wouldn’t.

      • Libertarian

        You’re absolutely right, Kane! For the cost EACH day of the ILLEGAL war in Iraq (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Khut8xbXK8 – The Iraq War: Legal or Illegal?) we could have been building 85 BRAND new schools, or close to 1,500 totally GREEN houses, or… http://costofwar.com/en/… instead, we have the rich becoming ULTRA rich, and BANKSTERS continuing to stay in power!

        Unions seem to be outdated today, but historically these were the institutions that brought about our: 40 hr work week, pensions, workers protection laws, etc, etc, etc.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    Whats necessary is rarely popular, or easy. If people dont like it, leave, or adapt to a new norm. Thats what many Gun owners have been having to deal with, increasing restrictive rights.

    It would not suprise me if you did a survey and it revealed that 90% of those currently clammoring about the Governor taking these “rights” would be the first to vote in someone who would infringe in another person rights to gun ownership.

    Think its not realted…think again.

    • Jovianus

      You would be surprised. It’s about Rights…all Rights of all people. The issues in Wisconsin show the battle is being waged against the Middle Class, and the ignorant and easily fooled are being used as tools for wealthy and corporate interests.

      You cheer when government comes in and strips the Rights to collective group organzing and negotiating, yet jeer about rights being “taken” which you feel personally affect you. Doesn’t matter if the first is real and the second is what you’re told (and false).

      Just as the elections of 2010 show, again it’s proven the TPers and ‘street conservatives’ are easily manipulated and played.

      How’sit feel to be a tool against America?

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Jo… I don’t think that unions not having collective bargaining rights effects me. I don’t belong to a union and don’t wish to belong to a union. I do not feel like I have been swayed and used. I have been saying for years that the unions no longer are doing the job they initially started out to do, which was to protect workers from unfair labor practices. Now we need them gone to be protected from them.

        • Eddie47d

          They are still protecting workers from unfair labor practices. Since they have become wiser in dealing with the same problems and better organized other workers have become jealous and spiteful.Unions have uplifted all workers in America and helped give everyone a safer and cleaner work environment. They are hardly the enemy you crave to make out of them and with you it’s nothing more than a political move.

          • Don

            So tell me Eddie, you don’t think obambi’s support for the unions isn’t a political move ??

          • Eddie47d

            That could also be true.

        • Jovianus

          “I don’t think that unions not having collective bargaining rights effects me.” <— Robin

          You realize that this is the same response given by many when the unPatriotic Act was first passed into law?

          Aswide from the fact it infringes on the Right to assemble and petition for grievances…and aside from the fact it screws the common working man and sets a precedent for going after non-public worker unions…let's examine two salient facts.

          1. The one flimsy excuse that unions negotiate with people who they helped elect and thus it's a fixed deck. Can you not figure out a method to minimize that ? Or…how about the fact that they could be also negotiating with people who were supported and financed by anti union election donations?

          2. A lot has been balleyhoo'd about paying public employees too much. Seriously? You'd rather have a state manned by people willing to work for slave wages? Will you smile and thnk all is well when talking with someone from the state and you know what you should be saying to that person is "Supersize that order please"..but instead they are there because no one competent would work for that wage?

          Doesn't affect you? I'd suggest you give it deeper thought.

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            Jo… I have thought about it, and I don’t agree with you! Nuff said!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jovi,
            If they don’t like the wage, they can go elsewhere!! There are people that help pay their wages that are just above the poverty level, why should they have it so much better than their private counterparts???

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          I saw an email last week that said Ruger is coming out soon with a new Union Pistol. It doesn’t work and you can’t fire it.

          • 45caliber

            It is also very expensive. But they hope to get the government to allow it to be manditory in many states …

          • SerfCityHereWeCome

            Lol. And the recoil takes out the owner’s kneecaps.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            when you pull the trigger, a little sign pops out of the barrell that says hell no we won’t go!!
            45, don’t give Chicago that idea!!! they will make a non-firing pistol manditory if you want to own one!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            If you want to know about the unions, just go to this site. You can find out a lot about them.

            http://www.nrtw.org

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://n/a Gaffer

          Again, Robin, it should be “affects” you, not “effects” you. When you effect something, you cause it to happen. Only your parents caused you to happen.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Perhaps you would be suprised to consider that a UNION is a “Private” organization.

        All private organizations exist to profit. If they were truely for the “rights” of people, and to make things better, why arent they a NON-profit organization? -Simple- Theres money to made as a middleman!

        Bargaining for someone who is either too incompetent, lazy or simply cannot under stand how to fill out a form is a business. Not saying a UNION doesnt have the “right” to exist-they most definately do-BUT they do not have any LEGAL RIGHTS except what the soverignty of the state they operate in says they do. Just like a private company has to abide by changing laws so too does a UNION.

        You use the word, “YOU” in your post reply-yet I swear I have no clue who “you” is because if you ever read a single post of mine YOU would not have said what you said to me.
        YOU said I Cheered…I didnt I merely stated that they did have the authority to delete that particular entitlement, right or wrong.

        As a Libertarian..I am not a threat to America, but to Amerika I am.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Bitter Libertarian:

          Here, here.

        • http://Yahoo John Boy

          Love it Libertarian……are You married….LOL

      • 45caliber

        jovi:

        You speak as if the middle class all belong to unions. That may be true where you live (the NE) but not here in the South. Most if not all states here have the “right to work” law that allows us to work without being forced to pay some union official for the right. I much prefer it that way. I don’t owe my job to any union and I shouldn’t be forced to pay them for the job.

        • Bus

          Unions tred a fine line, they can push their employer just so far before he/she/it starts pushing back. If they happen to get the government on their side then they can push a little harder but might just push the company out of business; then where are they?
          As a FORMER member of a teacher’s union I can tell you that they are front organizations for the democratic party. Even in Utah which is 75% Republican nearly all of my dues were funneled toward the democrats in every election. This year when it was obvious that the Republican governor was going to win by a landslide, they gave 50% to his campaign but then gave 50% to the dem. loser…Morons!

          • Bob

            Quite right – the AFT & the NEA are nothing more than the propaganda arm of the scumocrat party.

        • independant thinker

          If I owned a business and it voted to go union I would lock the doors and walk away.

          • Dawn

            I agree with you …

          • Jovianus

            “If you owned a business” …. so you don’t own one now i take it. So all the spewing garbage you make about what unions do to business is just that …. garbage.

            Interesting..

          • Jana

            Sorry Jovi,
            Your synopsis holds no water.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jana,
            No, but his head does!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Jo vi ANUS seems to only respond on threads about unions. Makes you think he could be a union rep paid to argue for them. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • independant thinker

            No Jovianalretentive I do not own one I am happily retired. As to the rest of your stupid remark, that was the first post I have made in this discussion.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          45:

          We USED to have a union steel mill in the area. There “contract” would come around every 3 years and many times out on strike they would go because their “bosses” told them to strike. Some were quite protracted.

          I knew several of them and would off-handedly ask them how long it would take them to make back all their lost wages when, and if, they got back to work. I would receive a blank stare.

          I then would ask if their “bosses” were also on strike, or if they were still receiving their obscene salaries. They would reply that they had to work to keep the union going and to make sure they all got their $25 per week, or whatever it was, strike pay.

          When they finally got back to work with the new contract they would beam about their wage and benefit increases and the fact that they go tto do less work.

          When I tried to point out the eventual intersecting of the lines on the profit / loss chart I got another blank stare. Then they would just say “they’re” making loads of money.

          • 45caliber

            I know exactly what you mean. I would also get the comment: “But we are making sure our children will be able to make good money.”

        • http://wellington-luxury-homes.com Coach Katerina

          I don’t understand why people hate rich people so much. Are they just jealous so they want to keep taking from them? After all, outside of the government, when did a poor person every give you a job? I thought that most people aspired to be rich. This is a great case of success of the elitists of the world creating a class warfare between the rich and the middle class and the poor. I like being rich. So that means that I am evil? We create jobs, entrepreneurs are the agents of change, we create wealth so that the governments can come and plunder our private property ( money) in the guise of taxes to give it those who have their hands out. I have been rich and I have been poor and I know that rich is better. So if you want to be rich, then get out there and create something for the world that people want to buy from you. If you don’t want to be rich that is OK too but don’t demand what you don’t earn from me and others who paid our dues to get to where we are!

          • http://n/a Gaffer

            Amen Coach!

      • eggsbenedict

        You will not find in the Constitution anywhere where it indicates that Collective Bargaining is a Right.
        The problem is two fold: First, public workers should have never been unionized to begin with. We were warned a long time ago by another president that this should not be. Second, as usual, the unions have bargained themselves to such high salaries that the public cannot afford to pay them so you have brought it on yourselves.
        The big dollars collected by the union leaders and spent on political candidates should be illegal or capped to a certain limit.
        We as individuals can only contribute so much to candidates so the union leaders should be held to same standard.
        Obama tipped his hand when he tried to stand up during this WI problem and fight for the union. We are all well aware of why he did that because he wants that vote in 2012 just as he refuses to enforce the immigration laws at the border and allow the illegals to come into the country for their votes.
        It is about time for the Sons and Daughters of Liberty to take this country back and stop power grabs by the unions and by this president and his Chicago style cabinet and henchmen. Wake up America!

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        Yep. The war has been waged against the middle class, by the rich SEIU union members.

        The middle class has been, and is being, raped by confiscatory taxes being levied to support the non-producers and the benefits for the rich SEIU union people.

      • JUKEBOX

        I wonder how JO likes living on the government plantation under Massa Obama and his Union vulture co-conspirators.

  • Dr. smith

    unions can go to hell, all they care about is funding their fat thugs bosses. tax payers are waking up saying enough, enough gouging the 50-60 hour working tax payer to support union thug bosses who are all grossly over paid and definitely under worked. 9 month work year! winter breaks! 15 paid holidays! teacher convention breaks! pay averaging $100k/9 month year!!

    wake up folks, look around. your working on Veteran’s day trying to pay your taxes and Mr. Public employee is out fishing and if he hooks his finger, don’t worry, no doctor bills to pay, all courtesy of the tax payer who has 2 jobs and who’s children are learning diversity, oral sex, and building their self esteem at the public school for a cost of $19k a year! Bull Shit!

    • DavidL

      Hey Doc,

      “All unions can go to hell”? Does that include yours, The American Medical Association (AMA)? It’s one of the most effective unions in our country. Oh, I see how it works for you. You want to eliminate any union that requires you to pay more, and keep your union which requires us to pay you more.

      The greatest UNION in the history of the world is The United States of America.Should thast go to hell too? Shame on you.

      • Proud American

        DavidL,

        People have the right to unionize, but it should not be forced. Currently over 1/2 of the states have forced unions. Workers should have the right to keep that money for their families if they so choose to do so. Virginia, where I live is a ‘Right to Work’ state. If they choose to join a union they have the right to do so, if not they don’t have to. Our union employees are paid well, and you haven’t heard any complaints from them. By the way, our state has a surplus and low unemployment. If you are so in favor of unions, take a look at Michigan. The UAW has destroyed Detroit and much of Michigan–unions priced themselves right out of a job. Michigan has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country (I am originally from MI, my family still resides there). Union Supporters have you fooled. If they are so good, why don’t they care about their people? One union boss from Wisonsin was asked, what about the children,’ when some of the teachers didn’t show up for work–he said, when the children start paying me, then I will fight for them. Sorry, but that tipifies the union boss mentality–Corruption–all about money and political power–not the people. Look at our public school education:0 WAKE UP and smell the coffee–you have been bamboozled!

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Proud American… I was born and raised in Michigan. I have some relatives still there. The unions are to blame for what has happened to Detroit and the state. Michigan is one of the more depressed states and it’s because of the unions.

          • Eddie47d

            No it’s because Detroit made too many lousy cars that Americans wouldn’t buy. It was Management who decided what cars were built and the unions had no choice but to build what was put in front of them. To blame the unions for poor quality in design or performance is a cop out.

          • eggsbenedict

            To eddie47d: It wasn’t because of poor quality cars being produced in Detroit, it was because of the price that the public was having to pay. Once the prices jumped so high, the citizens started looking at other cars that were cheaper and just as well made.
            The unions have contributed a lot to our work being sent overseas for production. Management is in business to make money. The higher the union lug, the more business is sent to our foreign industrialists.
            Union Leaders take your money by force and say you must belong to the union. Every state should have a “Right to Work” law so that the worker can keep his money.

          • Eddie47d

            Why don’t you check out the managements salaries and the work they do. Then compare apples to oranges in what the unions make. I never her those figures brought up so what are you protecting?

        • JUKEBOX

          Forced unionization is analagous to forced sterilization.

      • Proud American

        DAVIDL,

        I left off something very important. Doctors don’t make enough money for the work they do. Depending on their specialty, they work 80 plus hours a week and often make life and death decisions daily. Yet these people who have 8 plus years of post highschool education in addition to another 5 plus years working in their specialty before they earn their title (ie. cardiac surgeon) make peanuts compared to Professional Athletes, some of whom have never made it through college and make millions. Seems to me people place more emphasis on entertainment then the health and welfare of themselves and their families. Thanks Dr. Smith!!!

        • eggsbenedict

          Another issue that is being overlooked is the high price that Doctors have to pay for “malpractice” insurance. How many union workers do you know that have to buy “malpractice” insurance? What about the automotive line worker who strips a bolt during installation, or fails to install a part correctly?
          Some of the lawsuits that are brought against the Doctors are just plain frivolous and the lawyers get rich and so do their clients.
          Tort reform should have been a big part of this unconstitutional Obamacare program, but it was not even mentioned any where in the bill. Why? Because most of the persons who had a hand in writing this 3000 page document were lawyers.
          There is a Nissan plant in Nashville, TN that produces a fine automobile and not one of the workers are treated badly or paid a low salary. They have benefits running out their ears. I am sure that their labor group and management get along just fine without the union.

          • 45caliber

            I had a doctor friend who was a surgeon about twenty five years ago. (I had to move away and lost contact with him.) He was paying $10,000 a MONTH in malpractice insurance – and hadn’t have a suit against him in years. I’d hate to pay what he’d have to do now.

            Texas did, however, make an effort to correct this a few years ago. Now, if you sue a doctor, you can get ONLY actual costs plus no more than $100,000. The lawyers insisted this would ruin medical care in the state. Actually, it just means that they have quit suing many of hte doctors for frivolous reasons and have moved on to something else. We had doctors quitting or leaving the state. We no longer have that problem.

        • JUKEBOX

          Most of those pro athletes can’t read their high school diploma.

      • Mick

        DavidL says:
        March 15, 2011 at 7:32 am
        Hey Doc,

        “All unions can go to hell”? Does that include yours, The American Medical Association (AMA)? It’s one of the most effective unions in our country.
        ****************************************
        DavidL,,,And who do the AMA protects ??? certainly not the patients but they’re good at inflating the bills without healing the patients to the point that we can no longer afford to take care of our health…….What ever happened to ” DO NO HARM “

      • Jovianus

        David…I wouldn’t think the good doctor is a medical physician. I’d like to know which online university he received his degree from though. Obviously he should go back and ask for a refund.

        He’s an esily led, misinformed, fear driven robot of the controllers of the Right. ’nuff said

      • http://?? Joe H.

        DavidL,
        not a good choice of examples for you!! you better check out the percentage of Dr.s that belong to the AMA before you use it!!! About 37% of Dr.s belong to the AMA! not all the nurses belong to the nursing assoc. either!!

        • http://naver sook young

          I don’t belong to the nurses association and never will. They take too much money from we nurses. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

  • Bitter Libertarian

    And for the record…the Governor didnt take any “rights”. Collective bargaining isnt a right.

    A Right is something you were born with. Collective bargaining is an “Entitlement” given to you by your Goverment. BIG difference! If they give it-they can take it away.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Bitter Libertarian …. I agree. Collective bargaining is not a right, but an entitlement. Big difference!

      • Bitter Libertarian

        The Governor did not remove the right to file Unfair labor practices with the labor board, so they can continue to protect their rights.

        • Eddie47d

          Collective Bargaining is something they earned through negotiations. They worked for that “right” and the Governor summerly took it away.It didn’t have to happen for the Governor got his cuts yet demanded more. What will be next and who will be next?

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            eddie… how do you ‘earn’ a collective bargaining entitlement?

          • Bitter Libertarian

            Please review my post below & research for yourself exactly what collective bargaining is. You may be suprised.

          • Eddie47d

            You earn it by negotiating for it and putting it in the contract. It becomes a part of what you can do within a company. You as a taxpayer can protest those benefits which you are obviously doing. Nothing wrong with that but to take away something someone has earned by government fiat is a lousy way to do business. If the government comes along and takes away your pension or house because they think they have the power are you then a willing participant? I do believe Walker over reached.

          • 45caliber

            eddie:

            I see. So if you can get the government to give you or your small group some benefit then it can never be taken away once the public learns of it? That’s what you are saying. The unions may have “won” that “right” by fiat but that shouldn’t mean that the wiser taxpayers can’t make the government do away with it again.

            You remind me of a small group at a nearby city. They tried for years to get zoning so they could get more money for property they owned in the area they wanted zoned commercial. They finally managed to sneak it through a small special election that few people knew about. The next election there was a ballot to bet rid of it again. They insisted that it couldn’t be repealed because they had worked so hard to get it passed. Wrong!

          • S.C.Murf

            Hopefully you will be fast eddie, see ya

          • Eddie47d

            Caliber;How in the heck do you sneak in an election? Few people vote in off cycle elections and could care less what is being voted on. I did say you could protest their contracts so keep putting pressure on the Governor or Reps.You win a few and you loose a few. If I lived in Wisconsin I’d be voting against his actions against the unions. He could have cut the budget without his personal attacks. The threshold for voting(repealing) anything out is slim to none. Walker had a victory but I think he will loose the war.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            check out what happened to Addressograph-multigraph. They had people already retired and collecting retirement yet the company came along and said they misfigured their retirement and cut them in HALF!!! The US federal government, under Clintoon I believe, agreed with them and all of a sudden half of the retirees were out looking for jobs as they couldn’t afford to live!!! A friend of mine named Sam was one of them, I worked with him at his job that he came out of retirement for!! Now There is a REAL GRIPE!!!

        • JeffH

          Bitter Libertarian, I’ll add that this bill did not eliminate collective bargaining, it put restrictions on collective bargaining. That is something that most people fail to acknowledge, collective bargaining has not been eliminated with this bill, just restricted.

          • Bitter Libertarian

            I didnt state that, althoug I knew that! LOL Thanks!:)

    • Mick

      Everything is A RIGHT now days when it comes to liberal thinking, if so I should have THE RIGHT to refuse to pay for all of your perks……….

      • Bitter Libertarian

        I’d agree, but I will not comprimise.

        • Mick

          Bitter Libertarian says:
          March 15, 2011 at 6:51 am
          I’d agree, but I will not comprimise.

          ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
          Compromise has been shown to be simply giving in…

          • Bitter Libertarian

            I agree, thats why I dont trust lawyers..they dont practice law, they practice “paid compromise sevice.”

    • 45caliber

      Bitter: You are correct. It is too bad more Americans doesn’t realize that any “right” given by a government isn’t a true right as given by our Creator.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        It would seem that some deem the Govt as their Creator…or perhaps they “evolved” into their current beliefs? LOL

    • Jovianus

      Yo BL….do you ever state anything that is correct? FYI

      COLLECTIVE BARGAINING is a RIGHT as determined by SCOTUS (Supreme Court) in: N.L.R.B. v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporatio­n, 1937.
      In this case (which dealt with the constituti­onality of the National Labor Relations Act which protected private sector unions) they wrote:

      “Thus, in its present applicatio­n, the statute goes no further than to safeguard the right of employees to self-organ­ization and to select representa­tives of their own choosing for collective bargaining or other mutual protection without restraint or coercion by their employer. That is a fundamenta­l right.”

      They did not distinguis­h this “fundament­al right” as being a “right” for only some (private sector employees) — indeed our Constituti­on doesn’t allow “fundatmen­tal rights” for SOME and not ALL.

      Further…out of the 7th Circuit…

      “In recognizin­g this right, the courts have unhesitati­ngly enjoined public employers from dischargin­g or otherwise seeking to muzzle employees in their union activities­.”; McLaughlin v. Tilendis 1968 7th Court of Appeals.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        “Thus, in its present applicatio­n, the statute goes no further than to safeguard the right of employees to self-organ­ization and to select representa­tives of their own choosing for collective bargaining or other mutual protection without restraint or coercion by their employer.”

        “the statute goes no further than to safeguard the right of employees to self-organ­ization and to select representa­tives of their own choosing for collective bargaining or other mutual protection without restraint or coercion by their employer”

        Hmmm…..they still have a Union to “represent” them..they can still “self Organize”..they can still “select representatives of their own choosing”…… It would seem JO that nothing here has changed…..Wait…collective bargaining….hmmmmmm……so your “believeing” that they lost some “collective bargaining”
        Well lets see what that term “collective bargaining” means:
        ______________________________________________________________________
        COLLECTIVE BARGAINING 
        –noun – (really? not a verb?)
        the process by which wages, hours, rules, and working conditions are negotiated and agreed upon by a union with an employer for all the employees collectively whom it represents.
        ______________________________________________________________________

        By definition then it would seem that Colective bargaining for pensions isnt included….

        Regarding your other (gonna slam BL stuff) You are corrct, but those “granted rights” by legal definition are not the same “rights” as guaranteed by the Constitution.
        You are describing (as I sated earlier) Soverign LEGAL FEDERAL/STATE rights which if you look just a tad deeper in the JUDICIAL interpretation are an ENTITLEMENT.

        He that Give can take away.

        • Jovianus

          I know I know…what the SCOTUS has ruled is a ‘fundemental Right’ isn’t applicable since the SCOTUS only interprets the Constitution…and since you disgree, it (SCOTUS) must be wrong. Jeesh …

          • Bitter Libertarian

            What I am say is this: The Declaration of Independence clearly states that; “all men are created equal, that they ARE ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR with CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the persuit of Happiness”

            Now your a smart guy so i wont put up what the defnition of Life is, but how about Liberty?

            lib·er·ty   /ˈlɪbərti/ Show Spelled
            [lib-er-tee]
            –noun, plural -ties.
            1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
            2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.
            3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice.

            How exactly can any union operate when they VIOLATE the very Principal of Liberty! If ONE PERSON does not want the union, but 25 do that one persons Liberties are VIOLATED!

            All I ask is for you to see that there is a difference between Creator given rights, goverment entitlements, and authority/permission to behave a certain way (which may/may not be a right or right/wrong)

            The SCOtUS was WRONG to use the term rights. They (the justice system)do not give rights, they give authority, or permission to do something, THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT A RIGHT.

          • 45caliber

            jovi:

            Like many liberals you are trying to use the words to give something that isn’t necessarily true. That’s why many of you can’t understand when a politician says one thing but does another – you believe his words, not his actions.

  • Robin from Arcadia, IN

    The unions are all about power and greed. They have pushed that envelope too far and have crossed a line. They were a good thing back in the day, but not any longer. I for one am sick of my tax dollars supporting the greed and power that they now stand for. Hopefully other states will follow suite.

    • Fedupwillie

      I don’t have time to debate the union issue, but you are missing the big picture. All the politicos are also public employees and what did they give up to help the State? The unions may have too much power, but the politicians gave them the power to buy votes. Now they’ve changed direction but for what; to buy more votes! The greed and corruption in this country is rampant and many groups can be blamed. But if you look at all the problems they have the same beginning; politicians buying votes. The government is the problem and they are not about to change.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Fedupwillie… It seems that Gov. Walker is trying to take a step towards the change that is needed in politics. The unions have become so powerful, they control our politicians and since he doesn’t want to fall into that mess, he is the villain.

        • Eddie47d

          The Governor created a bigger mess by showing the arrogance on the right. I wish the issue was strictly about budget cuts then it would have been over and done with. Governor Walker turned it into a political issue and brought forth a fire storm. This storm will be brewing well into the 2012 elections.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            and we will see who gets recalled before then. I’ll garner that just as many reps that left Wisconsin to hide and cry get recalled as those thet passed this bill!! The people know that Walker acted in the best interest of the whole as compared to a select few!!

        • bob wire

          Right Robin, Walker has been bought a paid for. It’s his job to return the favor and milk the state in every way at his disposal under the guise of conservative, smaller government reform.

          That he helped create state budget short falls with more “give-aways” you are not alarmed?

          Amazing?

          If the last 10 year economic trend had not strongly favored the wealthy in this country as the top 5% now control over 65% of the wealth, maybe I would not be so alarmed with Gov. Walkers plan and those who backed his election.

          I hold serious concerns that the welfare of the American people is not his primary focus or concern.

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            bob wire… And you know this how?

          • JeffH

            You say that Walker has been bought and paid for, yet will you acknowledge that unions have bought and paid for their political favors in order to reap greater rewards from those political parties and political representatives that represent the taxpayers to negotiate the publc union contracts fairly?

            It is very well documented and publicized that unions were the highest donors to the Democratic Party and the Obama campaign.
            Unions, most of whose members are public employees, gave Democrats some $400 million in the 2008 election cycle. The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the biggest public employee union, gave Democrats $90 million in the 2010 cycle.

            Follow the money…The money in this case comes from taxpayers, present and future, who are the source of every penny of dues paid to public employee unions, who in turn spend much of that money on politics, almost all of it for Democrats. In effect, public employee unions are a mechanism by which every taxpayer is forced to fund the Democratic Party. So, just as the president complained in his 2010 State of the Union address about a Supreme Court decision that he feared would increase the flow of money to Republicans, he also found time to complain about a proposed state law that could reduce the flow of money to Democrats. Sounds so familiar doesn’t it?

            In turn, the Democratic National Committee helped to organize protests against the proposed Wisconsin law. Protests that showed contempt for the law, with teachers abandoning classrooms, doctors writing phony medical excuses, Democratic legislators fleeing the state and holing up in a motel. The lawmakers played hooky without losing any salary, which is protected by the state constitution.

            While it’s true that Gov. Walker’s proposals would strike hard at the power of the public employee unions. They would no longer have the right to bargain for fringe benefits, which are threatening to bankrupt the state government, and they would no longer be able to count on government withholding dues money and passing it along to them.

            What are the contributions that public employee unions make to our states and our citizens? Their incentives are to increase the cost of government and reduce down toward zero the accountability of public employees — both contrary to the interests of taxpaying citizens.

            Scott Walker in effect is following FDR’s lead

            Michael Barone
            Senior Political Analyst for the Washington Examiner

          • bob wire

            True Jeff, and the Unions represents “labor” and labor represents working men and women, ~ this “new game” even effects Wisconsin dairy farmers as they co opt and engage in collective bargaining for price control.

            What does Gov. Walker represent and who is backing him? What does these wealthy men respect in return? What is driving their intentions?

            I’m not suggesting that the Unions hold the answers to all that ills us, but they are a part of any solution. Now we can disagree with that if you wish. But like the 40 million Americans that depend on government assistance today to get by, you might wish to ignore them ~ but they are there ~ none the less and they will not go away with the reform Walker is attempting to institute but their numbers will only grow.

          • JeffH

            bob, all of that remains to be seen. Where will the 40,000,000 go when there is no more money? What Walker is doing is just one piece of the puzzle. There are many more pieces to be found, but you can’t solve the puzzle with just one piece. Walker is the “bad” guy because he took the cow y the horns and fired the first shot. Only time will demonstrate whether it is a good or bad move. I’m not quite ready to kill the messenger.

          • bob wire

            “Robin from Arcadia, IN says:
            March 15, 2011 at 9:26 am

            bob wire… And you know this how?”

            I’m a business man and enjoy reading and research from all points of view. There is much to draw from these days. We are information rich.

            I assimilate all that is presented by all parties. That’s the best answer I can give you with such a wide question that you offer me.

            Narrow your question and I’ll narrow my response.

          • bob wire

            I understand Jeff, this is just one piece of a great puzzle that only the truly wealthy are privileged to end game play.

            They would need us then, they won’t need you or me.

          • Eddie47d

            There is Jeff again blaming it on the DNC without having his facts straight. I’m a registered Democrat and I have not received one letter or E-Mail from the DNC for anything in the last 2 months. You are full of it saying they had anything to do with the protests. Another thing, these protests were spontaneous and the working folks are mad. Even non-union people see the writing on the wall against their jobs. Budget cuts,yes. Personal attacks against the dignity of workers, hell no. I hope you tell your neighbors that you want to cut their salaries and if they don’t you will personally dog them. Fair enough?

          • JeffH

            eddie, here we were having a decent exchange and you have to jump in the middle of the fray with no bullets in your guns and say something you have zero knowledge of. The union world doesn’t revolve around you eddie and neither does the DNC. But I will address your jealous, unfounded and bitter attack on my comment.

            DNC playing role in Wisconsin protests
            The Democratic National Committee’s Organizing for America arm(OfA) — the remnant of the 2008 Obama campaign — is playing an active role in organizing protests against Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker’s attempt to strip most public employees of collective bargaining rights.

            OfA Wisconsin’s field efforts include filling buses and building turnout for the rallies this week in Madison, organizing 15 rapid response phone banks urging supporters to call their state legislators, and working on planning and producing rallies, a Democratic Party official in Washington said.

            House Speaker John Boehner called on Obama to pull OfA out of the effort: “I’m disappointed that instead of providing similar leadership from the White House, the president has chosen to attack leaders such as Gov. Walker, who are listening to the people and confronting problems that have been neglected for years at the expense of jobs and economic growth,” Boehner said in a statement. “I urge the president to order the DNC to suspend these tactics.”

          • Eddie47d

            I’d believe Boehner about as much as I believe you. The DNC like the RNC is always looking for money and they wouldn’t have missed this opportunity to pick up donations. Since you seem to hate protesters Jeff please don’t attend any rallies,political gathering or Tea Party protests. Then you’d have to go against your beliefs.

          • JeffH

            eddie…you are just plain stupid.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            I personally got a call from a dem asking me to call my rep and complain about the tactics being taken in wisconsin and being considered here and I told them in very plain words to go straight to Hell!! don’t tell ME that they aren’t calling or working to support the unions!!!

          • Eddie47d

            Jeff; I guess that matches your being an idiot! So I reckon we are back to name calling. Thanks Jeff The slayer of the working man!!

          • JeffH

            Duh! eddie, when did you ever stop with the name calling? You’re still stupid!

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Goverment is placed into power by the People. Therefore the people are the problem. Theres more of us then there is of them. We vote them in, we can remove them if we were together.

      • Don

        Fedup, don’t bet your last dollar on ” the Gov won’t change” if enough people wake up, 2012 can make a change and get rid of corruption in our government and put this country back on course, and not a socialistic one !!

    • Jovianus

      Corporations are all about power and greed. Do you really want folks like the Koch Bros. and WalMart standing unchecked ? Or would you support limiting them as you apparently now want to limit ordinary Americans who want to peacefully assemble and bargain as a group?

      • Bob

        Better them than scum like Sorass. By the way, are the numerous corporations that support the scumocrats also abour power and greed?

  • home boy

    unions are the least ofthis country’s problems. PIMCO, the worlds largest bond fund company, last week sold all of their treasury bonds and guess who bought them. THE FED . now you have japan needing more cash in their system and the question is will they sell thier treasury bonds also. if this happens who will buy the bonds? THE FED. at this point the fed could end up holding almost 70% of their own bonds or in dollars that equates to $9 trillion dollars. watch what happens to the dollar . not a good situation to say the least. so why is noone talking about this?

    • Disgusted

      I agree with you. The disaster in Japan could prove to be the needle that breaks our countries back econimically. Glenn Beck talked about it last night and why isn’t this front page news? The possibility of this happening is there and we should be paying more attention to it.

  • JUKEBOX

    With all of the protests the Union myrmidons put on about this bill, consider what would have happened if the Democrat and Republican roles were reversed. The Republican protesters would have been beaten, arrested, prosecuted, and been called worse than they have already been called. Hooray for Governor Walker and the legislators.

    • Mick

      JUKEBOX

      Very good point……So much for RIGHTS in this country , rights obviously belong to the left and it’s time to change that,,,Go Walker, Kasich and the rest of the officials out to bring the stolen justice back to our country.

    • Disgusted

      I live in Wisconsin and know for a fact that these protestors are/were threatening the politicians lives, they were spewing death threats. I know someone who had business at the capital when all the “protestors” were camped inside and she said the building was filthy and they were actually having intercourse on the floor. Are you kidding me? These are really upstanding citizens (sic)?
      Some of their signage made the comparison of Walker = Hitler. Are you kidding me? Are these teachers protesting? If so I don’t want them teaching my children if they can and are willing to compare this with what Hitler did!! They should all be ashamed of themselves, shut their collective mouths and get back to their daily lives.

      • Eddie47d

        I will only believe half of what you said and really doubt if someone was having sex during business hours in the Rotunda. Maybe there was some confusion and she caught a politician getting it on in private chambers. That I would believe.

      • JeffH

        The Wisconsin DOJ (Department of Justice), Division of Criminal Investigation, has identified and located the suspect who threatened to kill Governor Scott Walker and several Republican State Senators via an email that was sent on Wednesday evening at 9:18pm, shortly after the Senate passed the Collective Bargaining Bill in Madison.

        The subject line of the email was, “Atten: Death threat!!!! Bomb!!!!”

        Law Enforcement Authorities made contact with the suspect, who after dialogue, admitted to sending the emails threatening to kill Governor Scott Walker, along with several State Senators.
        http://www.huliq.com/10128/wisconsin-governor-walker-receives-death-threat-suspect-identified

        • JeffH

          Disgusted, I searched and found nothing that indicated anybody was openly having sex inside the capitol.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Jukebox… The double standards that are applied to liberals and conservatives are so stark in contrast that a blind person could plainly see it. The MSM gives a pass to nearly all liberals, while conservatives are all but tarred and feathered. You would have to be living under a rock not to see it.

      • bob wire

        oh shucks, they are a bunch of pinko, tree hugging pacifist that hate to fight! Remember? They haven’t got the stomach for a good fight and just a bunch of limp wrist liberals, they hate guns,the military and love government. remember?

        They won’t hurt anyone.

        I think it would be a good idea for everyone to be honest with themselves and voice the truth and not what you want the truth to be.

        They are very angry and will be angry for sometime. I’m glad they are angry, aren’t you?

      • Eddie47d

        Robin; You have verbally tarred and feathered the Democrats and unions for years. Did you think they were going to roll over without a fight. Some here have tarred and feathered Muslims,illegals,women’s equality rights and homosexuals. The right seems to relish making enemies and stirring one group against another. Then you sit back and wonder why there is so much anger and division.

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Once again Eddie, you think you know it all. I have many relatives that belong to unions, which included my father when he was alive. I was a Democrat for most of my adult life. I have looked at both sides and I found myself much more in tune with the conservatives. Again, it’s not right vs. left, it is right vs. wrong.

          • Eddie47d

            Then why do you support so many hateful wrongs?

          • Jana

            Eddie,
            Why do you?

          • Eddie47d

            I support honoring a contract until it expires.When that date comes then make your point or demands. If union contracts are bloated then management better hold the line. The same in a non-union shop or company. Unions are not the bad guys. It has more to do with poor management so they and workers should be more respectful in signing company contracts.

          • Jana

            Well Eddie,
            management finally held the line.

  • Patty

    I suggest that teachers unite on their own without the union and come up with a plan to do a better job. Do what the private sector does to make people WANT their product. These actions from the private sector tell me that they don’t want or like what you are producing so you need to change course. Most businesses go back to the basics of what made them sucessful in the first palce and work from there. I think you will find that it is your own and other gov’t mandates that are restricting you in your own job performance.

    • 45caliber

      But the whole idea of a union is to NOT do a better job! It is to do an easier job for more money. If the kids don’t learn, who cares? They don’t.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Ironic isnt it…They will gladly hand over money to a private company to speak & “bargain” for them, but get pissy when the paycheck provider (the tax payer) wants them to pay MORE for their OWN MEAL TICKET that winds up back in their own pocket at a future date!

      Union Dues = lost cash FOREVER
      Increased Contribution = money that turns back into retirement benefits for the contributer.

      Protesting getting your own money back = Priceless

  • Bob

    Unions are a threat to the safety and economic health of America. They support the democrats which means they are part of the conspiracy to destroy America and they work towards that goal by crippling American industry and by impoverishing the taxpayer. In order to save America from decline and eventual collapse, unions must be eliminated in the public sector and in the private sector.

    • bob wire

      So it’s just democrats that are causing all of Americas problems? Without democrats everything would improve?

      Get rid of unions and democrats will disappear?

      • Bob

        Most of America’s problems would disapear if the democrats disapeared. Think about it – who fills our prisons? Answer – democrats. What party has control over most of our malignant, tax-sucking, bancrupt government from the school boards to the Whitehouse? Answer – democrats. Who makes up the welfare class? Answer – democrats. Which group is responsible for most of the violence in America today? Answer – democrats. Who is responsible for turning our school systems into tax-sucking, ignoramus-producing re-education camps? Answer – union member democrats. Need I go on or does that soak through your thick, union neanderthal, lieberal skull?

        • bob wire

          Who told you these people were democrats BOB?

          Where did you get the idea they are active to any political party affiliation?

          I’m wish to call you on that assumption and ask you to offer some validation. Show me your cards.

          You are making sweeping generalization and stereotyping to validate your “feelings”

          You seem to think that the world is divided into two camps, there is you and “them” and ~ “Them” is made up of democrats!

          Simple view, but not a very accurate one.

          If we put white collar criminals in jail more often like we should, what would they be in your mind? Republicans or Democrats?

          • Bob

            You can lie and deny all you want (because that is all you have) – these statements are true and you know it. The slimy, parasitic, tax-sucking underclass is almost 100% democrats and the democrats intend to keep it that way be feeding them with our tax dollars.

          • bob wire

            If that the case Bob , it should be easy enough to validate.

            I can’t help but believe you are assigning a political affiliation by stereotyping. Anyone in jail is a democrat!

            Believe it or not, ~ being apolitical is not a requirement.

            I had a dear friend of many years that I enjoyed arguing politics with, he and his family owned much out west Texas way.

            He’d say there’s not two cents difference between a republican and a democrat. After they steal my money, I don’t give a damn what they do with it!

            You are attempting to make politics a “Team Sporting Event” while you are little more then a busboy to your own farewell dinner.

            It’s just your view Bob!

            Harry Reid had a uncle hung for horse stealing back in the late 1800′s.

            To hear Harry tell it, this uncle was in the procurement of horse for the government and met his unfortunate demise when a platform gave way at a public gathering that was assembled in his honor.

            You can buy all this “political horse manure” you want BOB. Just understand, everyone is not and attempting to look out for you in spite of yourself.

        • Eddie47d

          Democrats=violence. Wrong! You lost right out of the gate. School boards are mostly Republicans who vilify teachers/unions just like you. I think it is those Republican School boards who are making a mess of things. Which strongly influence the teachers ability to correctly teach. So go after their worthless behinds.What kind of superglue did you pour into your skull for it seems locked up and ready to explode? Try crony Capitalism and unwarranted tax breaks as enemies of the people. Get back to me when you can clear that fuzzy thinking in that SKULL of yours.

          • Bitter Libertarian

            “School boards are mostly Republicans who vilify teachers/unions just like you.”

            I disagree….I know of no such statistics, and know that the school boards here in my school district are QUITE democrat. :)

          • Bob

            Republican school boards? You must be joking; thereis no such thing where I come from.

          • bob wire

            I believe you bob!

          • JeffH

            eddie, try providing something other than your opinion when you make a blanket statement like “school boards are mostly Republican”. That’s a joke. You could save yourself a lot of grief by providing something that would support your broad sweeping staements.

          • Jana

            Ha, even our school board here in our small town has mostly Democrats and tree huggers in it.

          • bob wire

            mostly tree hugger hmm? ~ so what are the rest of them? Illegal aliens?

            It Seems Republican seem to prefer the unborn when it come to children. They not as noisy I suppose.

            I prefer might medium well.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            It sure wasn’t republican conservatives that were attacking people outside the townhall meetings!! It sure as hell wasn’t republican conservatives that were throwing eggs at Palins bus!! Democrats DOES= violence! But only against those alone or that can’t fight back!!! They sure as hell didn’t show up at Becks ralley in DC!!!!!

  • Moonsi

    I don’t know folks, but this I know. Walker was paid by the Koch brothers. Just make sure that we are not getting double crossed with all the noises. Keep your eye on their agendas, more taxes, and more proverty.

    • Bob

      Same old lieberal lies from the lieberal handbook. Get a new act, this one is a little threadbare.

      • bob wire

        sadly Bob, it’s not a lie.

        • Eddie47d

          The Koch Brothers have been around for a long time and doing their dirty deeds secretly for some time. Finally it’s out in the open and only recently can be exposed. So they are a new challenge!

          • Bob

            Are they related to the scumocrat puppet master and bankroller Soros?

          • Eddie47d

            Could be.

          • Jana

            The only problem with the Koch Brothers is they support Conservatives and Republicans. That is a sin to Libs.
            I say PRAISE THE LORD for the Koch Brothers.

          • Eddie47d

            Praise the Lord for the unions who’s INDIVIDUALS donate their hard earned money for the working men and women of America.

          • Jana

            The individuals in these unions are forced to donate whether they want to or not through their dues, and it isn’t always who they would choose to donate to.

          • Eddie47d

            Union dues do not go to political candidates. Those funds are separate and voluntary.

          • Jana

            Sure, thats why we have so many union memeber complaining about their UNvoluntary money going to support candidates NOT of their choosing.

          • Jana

            Eddie,
            Read Johns post at the very bottom.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Moonsi… On this site if you make a statement such as you did about the Koch brothers and Gov. Walker, you better have facts to back it up or you will just be considered another liberal looney!

      • Sprock

        Robin,
        Fact: the Koch bros. gave $43,000 to Gov. Walkers Campaign.
        Fact: The Koch Bros. contributed $1 million + to the Republican
        Campaign Committee.
        Fact: Fox News’ Shepard Smith reported that of the top ten
        contributors to the Wis. Gov. race the top 7 were Republican
        / conservative donors.
        Fact: Inside this bill to remove Union RIGHTS was a provision that
        the Gov. alone can sell any public utility to whomever he
        wants, without any bids, for what ever price. (see Fact 1 &
        2).

        • bob wire

          They don’t want to hear that Sprock, they are going to call you nasty names if you continue to rain on their parade.

        • http://frontier FreeAmerica

          You want to compare donations? How about the millions on record from the unions,,,Trumpka who of coarse visits the whitehouse 3-4 times a week and speaks 7days a week to obama administration,,,to get him into office,,,how about the recorded millions already being spent of (union employee’s benefits) to fight these so called “right’s”. Well guess what Wisconsin and America, we too have “rights” and we conservatives do not want to put our money to the democrat’s…to abortion, or toward a union that lets go of it’s employee’s by seniority rather than by value of teaching. Unions are good to protect the people they stand behind,,,but when a government makes the tax payers put their money into a union it is theft to all of us conservative’s. Right now with the horror going on in Japan,,,has any thug who ranted in our capitol been aware that the people of Japan are NOT looting,,,are NOT stealing from one another, but patiently and respectfully waiting for help,,,,These people should be an example of how the loud, threatening left are not showing respect, they should be ashamed of their behavior,,,I personally never had a problem with union’s,,,these actions going on in our state and other’s at this time has completely changed my view on how unions work,,,and I do not like it. Show some respect,,,you have had this stare for over 50 years,,,we need help here and in Washington,,,give this a chance,,,this way is not working,we need to take a differant road,,,,Just show respect,,no more threats,,no more destroying public land,,no more boycotting small business,,,,God Bless America,,,

          • Sprock

            FreeAmerica,
            Funny you don’t mention anything about the untold millions from the Defense Industries going mainly to Republicans. Or the Oil Industries untold Millions in donations to the Republicans. Maybe that is why they are getting an annual TAX SUBSIDY of $46 Million from the American taxpayers while making record profits. And as far as Loud and Threatening behavior at rallies, you have the Tea Party folks and the people that created them for that. Surely you haven’t forgotten the training they received from former congressman Dick Army and his PAC? They set the standard at the Town hall meetings and now you are going to choke on it.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Sprock,
            Prove your words, son!!! show me where proven TEA party members did that!!! TEA party members volenteered to go into the wisconsin capital bldg. and clean up the crappy mess that the protesters left behind so it wouldn’t cost the state and the union said no that it was the job of state employees to be paid to clean it up!! Pretty slick isn’t it? Giving your buddies job security by making a total mess of the grounds. Probably got overtime for it!!! They ought to check the security cams and send a bill to every one they can identify. As far as the broken windows, if they can identify those azzholes, they ought to get jail time for destruction of government property!!

          • Sprock

            Joe H,
            You apparently missed the part I said about Town Hall meetings. Dick Army and his Pac inappropriately named Freedom Works, taught groups of Tea Party enthusiasts how to “disrupt” Democratic Town Hall meetings. The would shut down the meetings by screamming at the representative continously so no one could ask or answer a question about the Health Care Bill.

        • Mick

          Wow Sprock ! Are you trying to tell us that Walker was bought off ??

          What does it says for the following contributors to OBAMA……..

          University of California $1,591,395
          Goldman Sachs $994,795
          Harvard University $854,747
          Microsoft Corp $833,617
          Google Inc $803,436
          Citigroup Inc $701,290
          JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132
          Time Warner $590,084
          Sidley Austin LLP $588,598
          Stanford University $586,557
          National Amusements Inc $551,683
          UBS AG $543,219
          Wilmerhale Llp $542,618
          Skadden, Arps et al $530,839
          IBM Corp $528,822
          Columbia University $528,302
          Morgan Stanley $514,881
          General Electric $499,130
          US Government $494,820
          Latham & Watkins $493,835

          • Bob

            Notice that the brain-washed and brain-dead lieberals have no answer for this post.

          • Sprock

            Oil & Gas: Top Contributors to Federal Candidates, Parties, and Outside Groups
            Election cycle:

            Total contributions: $27,582,799
            Rank Organization Amount Dems Repubs Source
            Indivs
            PACs
            Soft $
            1 Koch Industries $1,911,212 6% 93%
            2 Exxon Mobil $1,331,258 11% 87%
            3 Chief Oil & Gas $1,193,361 0% 16%
            4 Chevron Corp $931,314 17% 82%
            5 Marathon Oil $664,790 18% 80%
            6 Valero Energy $589,500 16% 82%
            7 Occidental Petr $570,400 21% 77%
            8 Williams Co $491,685 27% 72%
            9 Chesapeake Ene $467,056 39% 59%
            10 Independentpetro $449,500 10% 88%
            11 Devon Energy $447,750 7% 91%
            12 ConocoPhillips $443,754 26% 71%
            13 Anadarko Petro $443,010 11% 85%
            14 American Gas A $375,650 44% 54%
            15 Halliburton Co $316,280 9% 89%
            16 Pilot Corp $286,567 3% 95%
            17 Tesoro Petro $277,883 38% 60%
            18 SocietyofInde Gas Mark $274,000 60% 40%
            19 Petroleum Mar $251,400 50% 49%
            20 Bass Bros Ent $247,465 26% 74%

            METHODOLOGY: The numbers on this page are based on contributions from PACs, soft money donors, and individuals giving $200 or more. (Only those groups giving $5,000 or more are listed here. Soft money applies only to cycles 1992-2002.) In many cases, the organizations themselves did not donate; rather the money came from the organization’s PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals’ immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.

          • Cawmun Cents

            DISCALIMER:IT SHOULD DULY BE NOTED THAT THESE CORPORATIONS ARE ALL REFUGES FOR IVY LEAGUE ACADEMICS AND DISTURBED PROGRESSIVE LIBERALS….AS IS THE BUILDING FORMERLY KNOWN AS THE WHITE HOUSE!

          • Jovianus

            Note comparing a presidential election list of donors against one for state govenor is eflecting from facts.

            How about telling us who attended the “Energy Commission’ Cheney put together and the agenda therein? or how about the list of people in the “Timber Meetings” and what the agenda was…and then we can look at the donations to the GOP coffers.

            Fact is fact…Walker took a call from whom he thought was his cash flow … and stated his goals and wha they had thought about in disruptions and putting families in harms way.

            Comparing a pres. donor list to a governor’s…that’s not only misleading, it’s an outright admission to the corruption of the Right.

          • Cawmun Cents

            Also notate that the members of these corporations which Mick has so graciously pointed out have ties to the President,have governing members in his Cabinet as well…..if further investigation was attempted it would likely show graft and corruptive practices no matter how much the lamestream media attempts to hide it from public discourse.

          • Sprock

            Jovianus,
            I was responding to Mick who erroneously responded to my post about Gov. Walker’s campaign donors with a list of Obama’s. Quite frankly I’m at a loss as to how having donors from some of our most prestigious Colleges is a negative. Oh that’s right, we are now kneeling at the alter of mediocrity where if you never went to school you are somehow “better”.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Sprock,
            I went to college and I’m much better for it! Of course, I didn’t have professors trying their best to indoctrinate me to the progressive view of things! most of my proffessors had held jobs in the private sector and were successful at it!! big difference there. sorta like the difference between a lifer and a carreer man in the service. A lifer is one that spends 30 years in the service because he can’t make it anywhere else. A carreer man is one that spends 30 years in because he believes in his job and figures he might be able to save a few lives along the way!!

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Sprock… Where did this information come from? You really don’t think just writing done a bunch of ‘facts’ make it facts, do you?

          How’s this one…. Michael Moore cheats on his tax return, thus it makes it easier for him to vilify the rich.

          • Eddie47d

            Sprocks information is in the news and on the Internet how much proof do you need?

          • http://deleted Claire

            Eddie47d–It just depends if you pull up a right wing or a left wing site.

        • Jana

          Sprock,
          So???
          Now, since you know so much why don’t you tell us who donates to the Democrats and Socialists? Oh, that’s besides the Unions!

          • Sprock

            Jana,
            I believe you already got a partial list from Mick. Otherwise you check http://www.opensecrets.org or various other web sites for that info.

          • Jana

            Sprock,
            I really didn’t need an answer to that, I just wanted to make sure YOU know that the Socialists have their contributors also.

        • JeffH

          Sprock, perhaps you should be aware that in general, donations to politicians are also based on party affiliations, not just special favors.

          For those that think Walker’s highly irregular, yes I said it, part of Wisconsin Senate Bill 11, which, when put in laymens terms means the state can pick who they want and make whatever deal they want without anyone else having a chance to bid on the deal.
          The cat callers are screaming “Koch” again with nothing more to back it up than scheer speculation. Do I hear “conspiracy theory” from those who tend to riducule conpiracy theorists?

          This statement was released in response to suggestions that there is a plan afoot for Koch Industries to acquire the Wisconsin public utilities assets, the company, through its spokesman Phillip Ellender, has issued the following statement:

          “We have no interest in purchasing any of the state-owned power plants in Wisconsin and any allegations to the contrary are completely false. This is a dispute between public-sector unions and democratically elected officials over how best to serve the public interest. Unfortunately, there are those who would prefer to portray it as something else entirely.”
          Via Milwaukee Wisconsin Journal Sentinel
          http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/22/a-secret-deal-between-gov-walker-and-koch-brothers-buried-in-state-budget/

          • Sprock

            JeffH,
            Well after reading both articles the best I came away with is “we’ll have to wait and see”. Boy I wish the legions on Obama detractors would adopt a little bit of this attitude. Since I’ve been paying attention to politics no one spends the kind of money the Kochs have spent during the Governors race without wanting something in return. The next thing you’ll be telling me is Gov. Rick Scott spent $73 million of his own money to become Governor because he just really likes Florida.

          • JeffH

            Sprock, I’ll finish by saying this…no one, and I mean no one, besides George Soros and his Open Society Institute with his array of 501C and 527 organizations, has spent more money for favors than labor unions. You can cat call the Koch name all you want, it changes nothing in the bigger picture. The Koch’s are nothing more than a pain in the liberal left’s hindquarter.

        • http://deleted Claire

          Response to your Facts— this is what my Wisconsin relatives have said over and over again. Walker wants to be the only person who can sell any public utility to whomever he wants–he does not want bids. The Koch Brothers will be right there when this comes into play. So much for fairness. Honesty and fairness have gone by the wayside.
          So much for politics. They are all disgusting.

          • http://deleted Claire

            This post was for Jovianus.

      • Jovianus

        Sure Robin..sure. This site is so full of lies and rumors being stated as fact, and just out and out made up stuff…the only ones who time after time give out facts on this site are the Progressives and Moderates. Oh…I forgot…some you tube or link to a wacked out fringe group aboviously a few fies short of a Big Mac Deal passes for ‘fact’ if it suports the right wing rhetoric. Doesn’t matter if it’s true..

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Jo… You are really a riot. No link for the facts, huh?

        • Bob

          Jovial anus: I guess that, in your opinion, it is ok for scum like Sorass to banroll your morally diseased party, but it is not ok for people who actually got rich by (gasp) working to donate to the Republicans? I guess it is ok for unions to extort money for the scumocrats from their witless, useless members, but not for real workers to donate money to those who do not want to see America turned into another “worker’s utopia” like Cuba or China?

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Jovianus,

          1
          When the USA Today/Gallup poll found 61 percent opposing a bill that would end collective bargaining for public employees, and only 33 percent in favor, some criticized the question on two related grounds. First, they observed, quite reasonably, that words like “collective bargaining” are not part of the common lexicon and therefore responses might be heavily conditioned by the poll question itself. Second, critics noted that this particular question talked about taking away “bargaining rights” — a positively charged word — and specifically mentioned highly regarded teachers.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        eddie47d,

        You can’t talk to these rude bastards.Most of them owe their existence to labor unions,unions help influence the passages of social security,old age pensions and welfare for the poor.I got an idea.Why don’t we eliminate veterans’ pensions,that’s socialistic.You know the answer to that one.The only real union in my eyes is the IWW.We eliminate all governments,all wars and poverty.Come and join the IWW,make a difference.

    • JeffH

      Moonsi, just another example of liberal rhetoric spewed by yourself and others who have swallowed the swill of the leftist media.

      It seems as though the left has figured out whom to personalize for their political failures of late. They have picked a target, personalized it and are now busy polarizing it. Political targets are nothing new, but the emphasis on “demonizing right-wing” donors is a tactic unique to the left but disgusting when the media willingly toes that line and uncritically pushes that underlying message.

      A month ago we were getting lectures from the media and elites to ‘tone down’ the rhetoric that targets individuals, and now we’re being sold the line that everything anti-progressive is funded by the two billionaire Koch brothers.

      Never do they question whether Soros’ funding of left-wing groups helps line his currency trading pockets, whether the Rockefellers promote population control in order to maximize their patent returns, Tom Daschle was a healthcare lobbyist and married to a lobbyist and yet there was no conflict of interest in being suggested to head HHS, Al Gore and friends no doubt have entirely charitable purposes when they push false, misleading and distorted bad science in order to set up an unprofitable industry.

      When it’s a real conflict of interest, when Goldman Sachs alumni are running the monetary policy of the nation in order to steal from the nation writ large, that’s less relevant. Koch has a libertarian economic philosophy that promotes less government rules, regulation and oversight. If Koch has a hidden agenda and wants something from the government, he’s doing it incredibly wrong. It’s those who are taking something that ought to be suspect, not the one who is arguing for more economic freedom for everyone.

      Even the LA Times, not exactly a bastion of free enterprise, noted that the protests against the Koch brothers seems a bit hypocritical, one-sided and out of place.
      http://bigjournalism.com/bwetmore/2011/02/04/media-targets-center-right-donors-koch-brothers/

      NUFF SAID!

  • Conservative at Birth

    It is about time. Now I hope a right to work law will be pushed in other states. I have never, nor will I ever join a union. Smells too much like communism.

  • Gary

    I’m a retired teacher here in Florida where I did my last 27 years of teaching. My state retirement benefit is $1500/month. I play golf with a retired fire fighter from New York who makes $4500/mo and a retired Wisconsin teacher who makes $3800/mo and they laugh at me because I chose to make my career here in Florida. The playing field is not at all level. We never had a union here in Florida. We had an “association”. A strike or a walk out would put us in jail.

  • skippy

    WALKER FOR A REAL PRESIDENT!!!

    • bob wire

      Walker /Palin , sounds good to me.

      • Eddie47d

        Perfect choice!

        • Mary Kay Andrews

          Palin/Walker for 2012? YES! For once I agree with you Bob Wire and Eddie47d. Maybe I’d better look out the window and see if the sun has exploded!

          • bob wire

            Great Mary Kay, make it happen!

          • Eddie47d

            wink,wink!

          • Cawmun Cents

            More like Ted Nugent(Preaident) and Ann Coulter(Vice President),one to put a pig in every pot,and one to explain to liberals why pot is not necessarily the answer to every question…..

          • http://deleted Claire

            Ted Nugent–OMG

  • patrick

    About Dam Time! As a former City of Minneapolis employee and forced to join the Teamsters Union, I’m so happy to finally see the Union extortion practices come to an end. Yes, We the People did speak out last Nov. and we DO NOT LIKE what Obammy boy and the rest of the Liberal Democrats have been ramming down our throats. Enough is enough! Now all good patriotic Americans must start the same procedure in the State of Minnesota. This country will suffer because Minnesota has 3 of the worst liberal democrats in our country: Amy Klobuchar, Al Franken, and muslim Keith Ellison. In Minnesota we have major freeway bridges collapsing and Minneapolis is now called ” Little Muslim” because these liberals spend all our taxmoney bringing in radical muslim Somali’s and other radicals from every State and Country around the world. Rep. Ellison is a muslim with one goal: to bring Sharia Law and muslim control of Minnesota. YES Minnesota is next to fall.

    • Jovianus

      Patrick…you’ve claimed you were fired from your public job. Never did state what the cause was…yet you and others rave about a public employee having a job for life without fear of being fired.

      So …what exactly were you fired for if public employees can’t be fired?

      • Eddie47d

        Nice of you to emphasise Muslims. What Religion was the other politicians or don’t you think we wouldn’t notice your bias? You are a staunch trouble maker and nothing else. It was a Republican Governor who was in charge when those bridges were crumbling and needed repairs and he did nothing. You need to print facts instead of hateful diatribes.

  • patrick

    Finally the patriotic Americans are seeing what our tax money has been finacing for years… public employee outragious salaries and benefits. I am a former city of Minneapolis employee and let me tell ya, I and thousands of other employees smile all the way to bank each and every payday. We were piad for 11 Holidays a year, start out with 3 weeks paid vacation, 30 days of sick time off or able to accumulate this sick time, health almost free, etc. etc. Minneapolis Sanitation workers only work a few hrs. a day yet they get paid for 8 hrs., what a scam that is! Some employees retire with thousands and thousands of dollar in benefits because they can save or bank their sick time and vacation time if it was not used. OMG why did it take so long for this criminal operation between the City Politicans and the Unions to be exposed? It is because the Unions and the Liberal Democrats run and control the State of Minnesota. They need to be voted out … NOW! And so does every other State in our country need to rid the Liberals!!!!1

    • Eddie47d

      I’ve said earlier that if you catch a public employee abusing his time,(taking a two hour lunch,etc)then turn him in.That solves the problem quick. Even Government employees can do that openly or secretly.Write to the company or to the local newspaper and be sure to have your information correct. Now Patrick what is wrong with a person using his EARNED sick leave or vacation time? It is a part of their benefit package that they contracted for.That is true in any job so there is nothing criminal about that. If you saw abuses then you should have notified management before contract time (about every 3 years). Unions aren’t perfect but you could have been a Norma Rae in reverse if you had the courage to stick it out. You are hardly being courageous now with your misinformation.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        “I’ve said earlier that if you catch a public employee abusing his time,(taking a two hour lunch,etc)then turn him in. That solves the problem quick.”
        Not true in every case. I personally supervised 2 Govt employees who were using a US Govt work vehicle (that was assigned to our shop) to go on personal errands DURING WORK. I just happened to be in the area on a work errand and observed it. I wrote them up and guess what the UNION said. “They didnt understand the policy, that the use of Govt equipment for personal reasons was strictly forbidden”.

        These were employees who 10 months earlier attended training for this very topic. Both employees worked for the Govt for 10+ years.

        The 2 employees then filed complaints that I was conducting “unreasonable surveilance”. They both got away with it and had their records cleared.

        I wasnt asking for a suspension or termination, only a written warning and couldnt even get that.

        Theres your Federal Tax dollars hard at work. Needless to say I could NOT continue to work there in good conscience. Just before leaving, I contacted a local TV station and they were not interested in this story or any investagitive reporting…hmmmmmm decide for yourself WHY.

        • JeffH

          How about the 14 spineless Democrat senators from Wisconsin…were they not public employees?

          • Eddie47d

            Heroes Jeff ,Heroes. You want to print crap you’ll get it back. Play nice or I’ll take away your Viagra.

          • JeffH

            eddie, you must be one hatefull and miserable individual.

          • Eddie47d

            Those Democrats weren’t spineless Jeffy opps, grumpy.

          • JeffH

            eddie, I’ll say it once more…you are just plain stupid.

          • Eddie47d

            Knock yourself out name caller!

          • JeffH

            eddie says, chirp, chirp, chirp…and he’s still stupid.

        • http://n/a Gaffer

          To Eddie47d — Did you just read, as I did, the first person account of what it is like to try and take your advice about reporting misbehaving union employees on the public payroll? Your response is baffling, and I might add childlike. If you want to post, and if you want to influence people’s opinions, you need to present a logical, believable argument. For instance, I, like you and many others, know or have known many public employees over the years — don’t we know the ring of truth when we hear it? Not everybody can be a Norma Rae.
          Regards,
          Gaffer

    • http://?? Joe H.

      eddie,
      I agree, there is nothing wrong with an employee using sick time for SICK days! There is, however, something wrong with being able to SAVE said sick time up so when you retire you can get what a guy here got. He got 42,000 dollars cash when he retired because he “banked” his sick days!! The practice was finally stopped here in Eastlake Ohio as it cost a city of a little over 15000 people too much!! The mayor here was getting two salaries as he was also considered the safety officer even though according to city charter the safety officer was supposed to have a permit to carry!! He didn’t!! He was later found guilty of a felony and still was able to retire on almost 80,000 a year!! I don’t care if it is the mayor, the city director, or right down to the sweeper, they shouldn’t have the taxpayers by the throat!!!

      • http://n/a Gaffer

        Right you are. Here in Toronto Canada, the tipping point was reached in the summer of ’08 when the city employees went on strike for a month before the Mayor caved in. The people were fed up and elected a new Mayor recently who has the intention to contract out some union jobs such as garbage collection. Part of the strike was about banking sick pay. Firefighters here can bank sick pay, but only to a maximum of 133 days. I know one firefighter who was good enough to work and not collect sick days who will now retire and trash approx. 270 sick days — i.e. he was a good person and did not take advantage of the system. So there is an example of reasonable compromise — bank some sick pay but limit it to a reasonable number of days upon retirement. Our city, same as others, just cannot afford unlimited benefits demanded by the unions. I’m not against any number of vacation days per year, but no group should have a lot more than other members of the society they all share, simply because they can extort from the others due to laws created by politicians — e.g. closed union shops, and indestructable collective bargaining rights.
        In the case here, the “fine line” was crossed, and the public voted for change.
        Regards,
        Gaffer

  • Raggs

    Every State needs to fall in line and do the same a Mr. Walker!

    The fools in the unions think that they are better than the average working class citizen and therefore they believe they are “entitled” to those benefits that the average citizen taxpayer funds… No matter how you look at this it needs to stop!

    • bob wire

      “Every State needs to fall in line and do the same a Mr. Walker!”

      I hope that you would tell everyone you met that Raggs

  • patrick

    Oh I forgot to mention some other benefits, some of these include all the free equipment an employee can steal because of poor management or record keeping. As usual with Govt employment, management is way top heavy, which allows supervisors time to run betting cards and other gambling activities, allow workers to go hide or sleep in their trucks, employ several people for road work yet only 1 or 2 of these employees actually do work. Garbage employees were discovered stealing recycle materials and hauling it to the recyclers for cash payments and yet no supervisor or director was punished? I once heard the major equipment from street depts. were missing like bobcats, tractors, trailers etc. etc. NO ACCOUNTIBLTY because of the taxes we pay! The City of Minneapolis doesn’t care because they don’t have budgets… most their funds come from us… taxpayers. If they run over on construction projects, what do they do? Yes increase our property taxes. Now we have our homes going down hill in values YET taxes keep going up! Get it folks, this is how the Liberal democrats and the Unions work!

    • bob wire

      Patrick, you mention things that are happening here in Texas, where there is no unions. They don’t have to be Union to steal my friend. For several years there, Dallas was having serious problems inside their school districts management with theft. ~ They elected a new district manager to clean things up and inside one years she had refurnished her own home on the cities dime. LOL! Brazen reform it was! Stealing with both hand instead of just one.

      I’m not sure paying people less will solve such problems but neither will paying them more.

      • Eddie47d

        Patrick you sure like to exaggerate everything . The housing market fell because of manipulation from banksters,Mortgage companies,hedge fund managers and poor government oversight. To blame it on unions is absurd.

  • bob wire

    I’ve never been to Wisconsin so I’m at disadvantage in knowing fact from fiction. I have heard that only 51.3 % of the eligible voters bothers to vote during their last election. If that’s the case, Wisconsin has the government they deserve to have.

    Collective bargaining doesn’t have to be seen as a “bad thing” if it is kept inside the boundaries of equitable fairness to all parties.

    I believe what has happen is a good thing but not for the same reason many of you seem to believe. If anything can awake sleeping democrats, this should do the trick.

    Myself, I wish it was that easy to take money away from a Wall Street Banker and neutralize their adverse effect on the economy. We did try, but political opposing was too much in their favor to make any meaningful change.

    I can’t help but think there will be a chain reaction of events to follow this power shifting coup that will carry us into Nov 2012.

    It will be very exciting to watch as the GOP struggles with the many pressures and splintered groups to present a contender for the first chair.

    • 45caliber

      bob:

      You said, “Collective bargaining doesn’t have to be seen as a “bad thing” if it is kept inside the boundaries of equitable fairness to all parties.”

      I will agree with this statement – but we both know the chances of this happening are fat and slim.

      The real problem with government unions is that the unions elect the officials they want with union money and votes – and then go to those same union officials to get their raises who are supposed to be watching out for the taxpayers. As long as they select the persons they plan to “negotiate” with there can’t be any “equitable fairness to all parties.”

      • bob wire

        Okay, the understandable. ~ Then this is where the work needs to be done, where the work for change should begin.

        Rather then this burn down the barn to get rid of a few rats approach.

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      bob wire,

      The Dream Antilles: Solidarity With Wisconsin’s Union Workers
      This union busting is nothing new. The Teapublicans have been anti-labor and … They’ve never seen a lockout or a goon or a scab or an injunction they couldn’t … The Teapublican Governor of Wisconsin, Scott Walker, has made no bones …
      http://dreamantilles.blogspot.com/2011/02/solidarity-with-wisconsins-union.html – Cached

      • Eddie47d

        Will the right soon be using billy clubs again to disperse union members? The Koch Brothers are out to destroy unions by lowering their wages and taking away benefits they have earned.That should be negotiated within the workplace up or down and locally.The Governor over reached and used outside forces to do it. Changes were needed but not the way he did it.

        • Bob

          If the Koch brothers are union busters, then they are real American heroes.

          • Eddie47d

            Yup.bring in the union busting goons!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            the only thing I seen so far is the UNION GOONS trying to beat the hell out of people!! I haven’t seen one verified report of TEA party members busting up ANYONE!!!

          • Eddie47d

            That is the way it was done in the old days Joe. Remember the OLD days Joe. Companies would hire police under cover goons to break up the unions.

        • JeffH

          eddie, I would expect that you have some firm inside information that sheds light on the Koch Brothers busting these unions and supports your views, other than what the lamestream media and GreenPeace have told you to say? Or NOT?

          • Eddie47d

            The Koch Brothers have a multitude of interests in Wisconsin and have encouraged Walker in his endeavours. You do the math.

          • JeffH

            Again, like the lazy liberal you are, you ALWAYS want someone else to do your legwork. Sorry eddie, unlike you, I do my own legwork and then supply the info and the links to back it up. Try it sometime, it’ll save you some grief and embarrassment.

          • Jana

            Eddie,
            You ought to be worrying more about the ANTI AMERICAN Soros than the Koch brothers.

          • Eddie47d

            I wouldn’t do any leg work for your spineless comments. Your cheap shots against me won’t get you anywhere. Go to bed grumpy.

          • JeffH

            eddie, again I’ll repeat…you are just plain stupid! Tag…yur it!

          • Eddie47d

            Nice try Grumpy!

          • JeffH

            eddie, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re still stupid does it?

  • Tom from Idaho

    All very well said everyone! There is another fact that no one has considered in this “right” of collective bargaining: public sector employees are collectively bargaining with We the People, who pay them. In the public sector these people receive what the get, without collective bargaining, from the taxpayer. This is not toe private sector, where this collective bargaining would take place between union employees and management. We the People are the ones paying the tab here – - we have no profit motive, nor are we at the helm of a business in this case.

    • Sprock

      Tom,
      The unions negotiate with the managers that are hired by the politician you elect. These managers are tasked with operating the public sector offices and Departments in an efficient manner. If they aren’t doing a good job managing their Dept. it is up to the Politicians that hire them to fix it. If you bother to check the average Public sector employee makes LESS than their Private sector counterpart. Most Public sector employees have traded their hourly wage for the security of Government employment and the benefits.

      • 45caliber

        Sprock:

        You said that most government employees make less than private employees.

        Not anymore. The average government employee wages is almost double what it is for private employees doing the same work. That can be found in all places in the country.

        • Sprock

          45
          Where i work the hourly rate for trades in the Public sector are $.00 to $5.00 less an hour for the same job. A right to work state.

        • bob wire

          I see a disparity with government workers over the private sector as well, and it is annoying and one of the reasons I’m not all that upset with this turn of events.

          But, I feel it will do little to help me, I’m not sure paying people less while we have a some 40 million working poor Americans on food stamps and the public dole is a good idea.

          Believe it or not, families do help families in hard times! This is taking that “ability” away from them.

          If a governor wants to make a budget allocation to spread the wealth around to the tune of 130 million dollars to business concerns without so much as a kiss or promise, are we not doing about the same thing with overpaying “some” government employees? We have no assurances or control how the money might be spent in either case.

          The private sector is not being payed well enough to keep up as it presently stands, so paying public workers less is some kind of a solution?

          Now that is some seriously twisted thinking!

          This is getting more and more like a drug deal, where there is no “Good Will” present in the transaction. ~ The desired end being, a seller is dead and someones left holding both the dupe and the money.

          and government, republican or democrat, no matter, ~ will spend every dime they control and then leverage next years revenues! ~ It don’t make a damn what they call themselves.

          • Sprock

            Bob Wire,
            The argument that he was doing to control the budget went out the window when he included an almost dollar for dollar tax break to businesses. If you need the money for the deficit you don’t hand it away before you even get it.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            sprock,
            Where the hell do you think that money comes from?? The businesses HIRE workers who in turn get paid, and then pay taxes!! you tax those businesses too high and they will move to a neighboring state that taxes less!! when that happens, you lose tax money, employees, and you get more people on welfare, unemployment and government subsidised housing!!!

      • Bob

        Politicians, particularly scumocrat politicians, don’t fix anything unless it is to their advantage. Their is no way they are going to tell managers to be tough on tyeacher’s unions because scumocrats rely on them for votes, volunteers, and cash. Do away with unions, and you do away with the problem.

  • http://santa6642@earthlink.net Joseph Kay

    About time , and well done, now to move on to every other state.

    • bob wire

      Good idea Joe, go for it.

  • sf

    I am proud of Walker for having the balls to stand up to his word and do what he said he was going to do, and not be bullied around by spoiled entitlement crybabies who, instead of staying and doing their jobs, fled the state. WTF!

    That’s what I did when I was little and couldn’t get the rest of the kids to play what I wanted to play. “FINE then. I’m taking my toys and going HOME.”

    And the way the left is now playing it? “How troubling it is that the Republicans did this when Democratic representatives were absent” … conveniently leaving out the part about how the Democrats WERE ABSENT OF THEIR OWN ACCORD. The Democrats flee like spoiled brats and then when stuff happens that they don’t like, they get all pissed off. “HEY! Not fair! You can’t do that without me!” Well, yeah, we can, genius. You fled the state, remember? (Meanwhile, I wonder what the delay caused by their little standoff actually cost. I really hope they paid for their own hotel bills. What were they going to do, just camp out indefinitely?)

    Just pisses me off that the (leftist) media called what the Democrats got upon their return a “hero’s welcome.” Please.

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    Dick Meister: Teachers Need Strong Unions | San Francisco Bay Guardian
    Mar 11, 2011 … Dick Meister: Teachers Need Strong Unions. 03.11.11 – 5:22 pm | … “We’ll never attract the kind of talented young people we need to the …
    http://www.sfbg.com/bruce/2011/03/11/dick-meister-teachers-need-strong-unions – Cached

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      How do you like that, scabs?

      • Bob

        Scab – isn’t that union scumbag talk for someone who actually does an honest day’s work for a honest day’s pay?

        • Eddie47d

          Not necessarily and a few years ago teachers were paid so low few were going into that profession. It’s still true today “that you get what you pay for”.If a compromise was needed by Gov Walker then that was fine and he was given that.He obviously wanted much more.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Eddie47d,

            You are right.My wife quit teaching,because of low wages and benefits.She taught general business and math in high school.she and a fellow teacher, who also quit,went in to commercial real estate business together.my daughter,also said when her contract is up in june,she is going to work for Toyota.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Well there’s a benefit to your state!!!

        • bob wire

          No a Scab is someone that enjoys riding coat tails and the fruit of someone else hard fight. ~ They think that a 40 hour work week, Holiday pay and vacation pay is due to the benevolence and charity of employers.

          • Bob

            Bob-Wire: Not so – “scabs” are those who are willing to let their work speak for them and who work hard enough that they don’t have to join with a gang of lazy, useless thugs to keep their jobs. They don’t need to slash tires, burn things down, or beat people up to get what they deserve. They don’t support communism and they aren’t dragging America down the toilet like the union goons. America needs a lot more “scabs” and a whole lot fewer union parasites. 40 hour work weeks are for lazy slobs and overly generous benefits are turning America into a parasites paradise. Just remember, when the host dies, the parasites also die.

          • Eddie47d

            Most scabs are obviously unemployed Americans who will take a job even from someone else. They may have a family to feed and that comes first over moral standards or dignity.I don’t blame them for trying but if they will steal someone elses job they would be willing to steal from the company.

        • Don

          I think coal miner’s last word ” scabs ? ” was a question !!!

    • Bob

      Talented young people don’t belong to unions, they go to work in the real world. Unions and government work attract only the bottom of the barrel workers. Anyone who has to be overpaid to work is of no use to society.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        Bob,

        That is the stupidest statement on this blog.I work 43 years in the coal mines and we out produce every scab mines in the state.No one one going to work for substandard pay.Teachers included.

        • Bob

          I doubt that – in my area the union mines had to close because the labor costs per ton of coal were to high. Also, let me define what “substandard pay” means to the union drone: It means anything that is less than twice what you are actually worth. Again, anyone who has to be overpaid to work is a parasite and a drain on society. That includes you and most (but not all) teachers.

        • bob wire

          The truth is, Bob doesn’t know much about unions

          and he sure doesn’t know what a scab is.

          I’m not suggesting Unions are the neatest things since pockets but Bob is not one to be telling anyone about what Unions do or are.

          • Bob

            Another lie from bob wire – I have worked in the construction industry for over 40 years in an area that is almost 100% union. I have supervised union scum and I have had to deal with fake worker’s comp claims from union scum, and I have seen violence and vandalism from union scum. I forgot more about unions than a lying lieberal liar such as yourself ever knew.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Bob wire,

            This Bob character is a liar and a scab.Only mines he ever was close too,was on television.He is a joke.

          • bob wire

            “I have supervised union scum and I have had to deal with fake worker’s comp claims from union scum”

            It sounds to me that you have been more of a buttboy for management and not a part of “labor” by your on admission.

            I bet your were a real sweetheart to work for by the way you describe your help.

            I’ve been a GC myself, a professional (offensive word removed), it come with the job in directing working men, dealing with production and deadlines. You have to be hard but I don’t get lost in the role just because I put on the hat.

            I can walk on a job and look at the workmanship and tell if it was done by union labor.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Bob wire,
            Yeah sure! that’s why even the union guys from the big three used to tell you if you could find out what day a car was assembled, never buy one from Friday or Monday!! Friday they were all thinking about the weekend and monday their hungover azz was dragging from the weekend!! After seeing the report on the workers from chrysler that took their lunch at the park smoking dope and drinking beer, I’d say it was probaly true of ANY day for some of them!!!

        • Sprock

          Coal Miner,
          And the Union mines were far safer than the Non-Union mines. The owner of our last mine disaster wouldn’t even let Union recovery teams into the mine to try to get to the trapped miners out. What was he afraid they would see?

      • Cawmun Cents

        This is where I have to part agreement with you Bob….I have been in the trades for many years and know many talented builders who may have never learned how to build if they had not gone through state Apprenticeship training.The fact that they were willing to take on less wages and actually become trained intheir trade is one testement to the excellence in our trade unions.One cannot always get the schooling and on the jobe training that one needs to perform at the top of his trade,if he does not undergo an apprenticeship.I am a Union builder and though I do not agree with the pollitical rammifications of unions,I cannot argue with the excellence by which they ply the trade.That being said,I do not agree with the nepotistic practice of keeping lees than stellar tradesmen in the union because they have family in the trade.I myself have no family in the trades and was passed by for an apprenticeship several times so that family members could jump ahead of me.The self same individuals still work today while I ride the pine at home.Even though many are in and out of prison,or fail to even show up to work half the time.That part of unionism they can keep.It is sad how Nepotism has taken over for the detriment of the trades.

        • Bob

          And I disagree with you – these “fine craftsmen” that came from the union apprenticeship programs (which were paid for by the contractors) were less than skilled and almost all had the union attitude that doing an honest day’s work was asking too much of them. They were thieves, drunks, frauds, and dopers and they committed numerous acts of violence against people who just wanted to be free and work on their own. I wouldn’t give a dime for every union thug who ever lived.

          • Jovianus

            Given the above remarks from someone who states they were a “supervisor” … you still wonder if we need unions to protect the working man of ths nation?

            One should also ask…would this person be the one YOU want working FOR YOU as a state employee? Really?

            My guess is Bob above wouldn’t put in an honest days work where ever he was at. He wouldn’t know what an honest days work was. As for ehlp and assistance? LOL…good luck, he’d be the one snarling at you and asking why you were bothering him …

          • http://?? Joe H.

            jovi,
            If you union guys are so well trained, then why would you HAVE TO bother your supervisor?? Can’t read prints??? I can and I can work without supervision!!! I weld something it stays together! I weld things as if I was paying for it to be done! If more people looked at their job that way, we wouldn’t be so far below the rest of the industrialized world!!

  • Navigator30

    Public Employee Unions are not the same as Unions dealing with Private Enterprise. The regular unions can’t spend their dues money to influence the selection of the Human Resources Director. If the company gives away too much, they go out of business. Public Employee Unions can determine who sits on the other side of the table negotiating benefits. The polititican lose nothing and move on. The benefits have to be covered by the taxpayers. It is an incestuous relationship.

    • Sprock

      Navigator30,
      I help negotiate our contract for 12 – 13 years and never ONCE did we get a say as to who sits across the table. The Unions have no legal right or power to force any Public entity to spend more money than they get.

  • Bob

    Coal miner: You just can’t help lying can you? I never said I worked in a coal mine, I said I worked in the construction industry. And the union coal mines in our area did close and I had several of the worthless coal miners in classes I took at our local junior college. They were there on the taxpayer’s dime (Heaven forbid that these parasites pay for the classes themselves)trying to be re-trained. Few of them finished the classes because they were dumb and lazy. Go figure.

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      “After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab.”

      “A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue. Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.”

      “When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out.”

      “No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with. Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself.” A scab has not.

      “Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British army.” The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.

      Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country; a scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class.”

      Author — Jack London (1876-1916)

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        Biob Scab,

        Don,t that describe you.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        “London was a passionate advocate of unionization, socialism, and the rights of workers and wrote several powerful works dealing with these topics such as his dystopian novel, The Iron Heel and his non-fiction exposé, The People of the Abyss.”

        He was a writer, nothing special…his words do not erase the personal Liberty I am Guaranteed by the Constitution or my Creator.

        lib·er·ty   /ˈlɪbərti/ Show Spelled
        [lib-er-tee]
        –noun, plural -ties.
        1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
        2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.
        3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice.

        You infringe on my Liberty with your Union, I will fight back and I will be well within my RIGHTS to defend myself. Period.

      • 45caliber

        One problem with this description: If I was working somewhere and was promised something by an employer which did not materialize, I’d go get a job elsewhere. And he would have to get someone who doesn’t do the job as well to replace me.

        Most employers know this.

        Besides, if I negotiate with an employer for some pay or benefit, what is the difference between that and paying three years salary to some union offical to do the same thing for me? After all, in both cases there was a negotiation. The big difference is that I don’t pay someone to do what I can do myself. And I can usually get better pay and benefits by negotiating myself rather than through someone else who is more worried about what he is going to be paid.

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      Bob Scab,
      Like I said you are two bit phoney and a liar.Peddle your crap some where else,no one believes you.

      • JeffH

        cm brings so much credibility to the table.

        • bob wire

          yes, please , let us maintain some sense of civility and talk this issue through is some meaningful way.

          We can agree to disagree. ~ This nation is very large and one can life a lifetime and not see or know it all. To not understand want other American must contend with.

          Down in the deep south, around the Texas coast, it’s different then here in the north center Texas. Wisconsin must be different still and there is many kinds of Unions. Know one can claim to know about what they have never experienced.

          Don’t allow your feeling to close your mind to other peoples experiences.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          JeffH,
          WHERE?? WHEN????

          • JeffH

            …still LMAO!

      • S.C.Murf

        cm, you sound very bitter. did you go out on strike and a hard working american get your job?

        up the hill
        airborne

  • http://com i41

    CVentd, I have worked on several union jobs and the workers may be skilled in one “trade”, but arte as worthless as s–t, if they are needed some place else. I went and got out of the union jobs crap and went to work onnon union jobs. Dince I had a CDL with all the endorsements, could operte all equipment including cranes, as well as do mechanic work on any peice of equipment. Even do finish work, like dry wall and cabinets if needed on the job. All learned as OJT provided by an employer not a dead ass union slug. Use union slugs and a copper pie need to be moved, cann’t do it be cause you aren’t a plumbeer, or the compressor themostat sticks, must wait till a maintance monkey decides to show up so sit on your rear. When in a non union i I know how to change it out, get some tolls and change it out now, not 8 hours later. Union protect screw offs, in the late &0′s we bought several big far,e tractors. that developed third member problems in the axles, the company had to sent out special repair crews out to repair equipment. After 20,000 failures, using serial numbers it was traced back to a union plant, that requires so many minorities be on the job site. The spot manned by 2 worthless bucks from job service, only had to take a air wrench and tighten 4 boltsd and wait for the part to move. Since it was a simple job, requiring no skill, these brain dead bucks would do a few joints and never did their jobs,but companies were required by the union contract to hire minority screw offs. Between the union labot costs and and repair of the f–k ups the company lost over 15,000 dallars a tractor, when we bought the tractor for 24,000. So don’t tell me how skilled the union f–k ups are and what fine craftmen they are, and skilled they are worth the pay, not? News is saying the black bucksare stupid and cannot pass tests and if they fail they still get hired. They fail the tess and they will not apply for jobs, no s–t Shurlock, to lazy doing drugs and running their whore house queens! The schools must be doing a great job education the slugs.

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    Piotr Duda addressed a letter to the American trade union AFSCME supporting their struggle against the recent attempts to reduce workers’ and trade unions’ rights and cut down wages in the public sector in the State of Wisconsin by Governor Scott Walker.

    The letter reads:

    “Dear Sisters and Brothers,

    On behalf of the 700,000 members of the Polish Trade Union NSZZ “Solidarnosc” (“Solidarity”) I wish to express our solidarity and support for your struggle against the recent assault on trade unions and trade union rights unleashed by Governor Scott Walker.

    We are witnessing yet another attempt of transferring the costs of the economic crisis and of the failed financial policies to working people and their families. As much as some adjustments are necessary, we can not and must not agree that the austerity measures are synonymous with union busting practices, the elimination of bargaining rights and the reduction of social benefits and wages.

    Dear Friends, please rest assured that our thoughts are with you during your protest, as we truly do hope that your just fight for decent working and living conditions, for the workers’ rights will be successful.

    Your victory is our victory as well.
    We will continue to watch the developments there and please keep us informed of any other ways, you think we could be of assistance.

    In solidarity,

    Piotr Duda
    President
    NSZZ “Solidarnosc”


    solisarnosc

    ——————————————————
    ‎”History is a great teacher. Now everyone knows that the labor movement did not diminish the strength of the nation but enlarged it. By raising the living standards of millions, labor miraculously created a market for industry and lifted the whole nation to undreamed of levels of production. Those who attack labor forget these simple truths, but history remembers them.”
    – Martin Luther King

    © Copyright 2011, madison.com, 1901 Fish Hatchery Rd Madison, WI | Terms of Service and Privacy Policy

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      Bob Scab,

      This union overthrow the communist government of Poland.

      • Bob

        Keep posting coal miner – your posts show what kind of low lifes belong to unions. To be hated by the likes of you is a badge of honor to any decent human being.

      • libertytrain

        Yes, they did but as Lech Walesa told me a few years ago when I asked him about it, (via his interpreter) that it was only, only, because of Pope John Paul – before the Pope encouraged the Polish people to take on this cause – in his words: Mr. Walesa said “First there were only 10 of us, and we were not getting very far, then the Pope came to Poland and then we had 10,000.”
        He also said that Ronald Reagan was well aware of Mr. Walesa and his early attempts long before any of us knew about his movement but President Reagan couldn’t really be of help then, not till the Pope energized the people.

        • libertytrain

          Ah, one more thing he said, without the Pope they were nothing and would not have succeeded. Ask him yourself next time he’s in your area. He will only give credit to the Pope, not himself.

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, thanks for your insight. The struggles in Poland during that time have no comparable relationship to the economic situation Wisconsin and other states are faced with today.

          • libertytrain

            You are correct Jeff, I see no correlation – between then, overthrowing communism, and the union situation of today.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            libertytrain,
            coal miner only brings up the polish unions because his masters want a one world union and government that they control. I hope about half their plans go up in smoke!!!

          • Eddie47d

            Hey Jeff I think it’s Joe that is the stupid one. What a hoot!

          • JeffH

            hey dummie eddie, you can’t deflect your own stupidity off on to Joe H.

    • 45caliber

      And your point is …? What does a union in Poland have to do with Wisconsin??

      • bob wire

        It means divide and unorganized you have limited control of your life wherever you might live.

        • libertytrain

          I think I sort of see your point. We need to organize more to prevent the travesty of further losing more of our own liberty in this country.

          • bob wire

            of course, this give one person a greater presence and louder voice. The secret is to stay unified and offer just,sound resistance and quality argument. It hard to do with radical and reactionaries in the mix that direct you to fight for unattainable goals.

          • Jana

            bob wire,
            Isn’t that what the TEA Party did? The only thing is they weren’t unionized. But everyone sure came down on them hard.

          • bob wire

            Exactly Jana, the collective at work,~ to bring to bear forces that might effect change or compromise.

            You must wake up enough people and sale them on the “package”. What the collective must always look out for is a “Bait and Switch”, a hyjacking of the hard ground work of others. Goals and objective need to be clear and defined to avoid this hyjacking.

            A Protesting of “big government” is been crying to be hyjacked by opportunist. Big Government has yet to be defined and could mean just about anything. Today it’s other collectives like unions. Which is okay if a scorch earth policy is the last resort preferring to identify matters of contention and working toward resolve and resoulation.

          • libertytrain

            I’m so not a joiner. I don’t play well (in person) with others that try to lead me into their thought processes (extremists or those with the switch and bait style).

          • Jana

            libertytrain,
            I am not a joiner either. I didn’t join the TEA Party, but I sure did agree with them. I loved it that the people woke up, spoke up and acted on it.

          • libertytrain

            You’re right – the Tea Party is impressive in many ways. Though of course both of us will be attacked for saying same. Such is life.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    “Dear Sisters and Brothers,

    On behalf of the 700,000 members of the Polish Trade Union NSZZ “Solidarnosc” (“Solidarity”) I wish to express our solidarity and support for your struggle against the recent assault on trade unions and trade union rights unleashed by Governor Scott Walker.”

    This was written by a supposed intelligent person? Since when is teaching a Trade…if whom ever wrote that letter was real, and understood that unions in Europe & America are TWO VASTLY different animals…they would not have written that letter that way.

    • bob wire

      hmm? I see it as someone making a good faith attempt to show support for the struggle of labor and no more then that.

      Men get jobs and women seek careers, ~ labor / profession/ trade / what ever?

      Words are important it’s true, there is a time and place to split hairs.

  • John P.

    I agree with Robin from Arcadia, IN

  • JeffH

    Top All-Time Donors, 1989-2010
    This has been posted on more than one occasion but seems to be ignored by some more than others.

    #3-American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees donated $43,477,361 of which 98% went to Democrats
    #7-Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, $33,056,216 of which 97% went to Democrats
    #8-National Education Assn, $32,024,610, 93% to Democrats
    #9-Laborers Union, $30,292,050, 92% to Democrats
    #10-Teamsters Union, $29,319,982, 93% to Democrats
    #11-Carpenters & Joiners Union, $29,265,808, 89% to Democrats
    #12-SEIU, $29,140,232, 95% to Democrats
    #13-American Federation of Teachers, $28,733,991, 98% to Democrats
    #14-Communications Workers of America, $28,376,306, 98% to Democrats
    #17-United Auto Workers, $27,134,252, 98% to Democrats
    #19-Machinists & Aerospace Workers Union, $26,229,477, 98% to Democrats

    Lo and behold, I see the ever evil Koch Industries are competing with the union donations by their huge donations to the Republicans?
    #83-Koch Industries, $11,002,235, 10% to Democrats and 89% to Republicans.
    http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

    • bob wire

      and it’s somehow better that the Koch brothers and their interest instead of Wisconsin unions to represent the people of Wisconsin?

      • JeffH

        bob, you guys are just railing the Koch Brothers because you got no one else to rail. Just like the left did previously in their attacks on the likes of Kenneth Starr and Richard Scaife “you liberals” have to have someone to demonize and the Koch’s are it. Who’s next? When this doesn’t work, who will be next?

        The urge to demonize the Koch brothers is not just about attacking organizations or politicians that have received donations from them (in the case of Wisconsin governor Scott Walker, the amount is minimal), it’s also about creating a distraction from the fact that the American left in actuality is largely the creature of a handful of billionaires like George Soros, Bill Gates, Peter Lewis, Steve Bing, and Herbert M. Sandler.

        For all their bluster about “corporations” funding the right, it is wealthy fat cats who fund the left. “SURPRISE”!

        • bob wire

          Jeff, it was you that brought forward the money trail and not I. You are the one that opened the “contribution” door, I only stepped through as it begged for a simple question. “What’s in it for these brothers?”

          Perhaps some have railed about these brothers but not I. ~ There is plenty of impropriety to address in this coup without asking questions I’ll never be told the truth about regardless to how many times they might be asked.

          Your “king” must be contained and you no move left before the truth might be revealed. This is purely mid game play while you forced a end game question out of me.

          I know why Unions invest their money into politics!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          JeffH,
          I heard their next target is Sister Theresa!!! She worked for the poor without being union!!! coal miner says that makes her a scab!!!

          • JeffH

            …yer killin me!

          • Eddie47d

            Your mind is half dead anyway Jeff. Not much more to kill off!

          • libertytrain

            You are right, she did give up a life of comfort to work for the poor without union benefits. What was she thinking?

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Joe H,

            American Atheists did an expose’ on “Mother Theresa” some years back. This woman has received millions if not more in donations. Most of the money is unaccounted for.

          • libertytrain

            Good grief Coal, what did she do with the money? Designer clothes, a place on the beach next to Mr. Gore? Of course she may just have used the money to fund the endless array of projects she created to help her poor. She didn’t have to answer to atheists or anyone as to which slum she used the money for after all they certainly weren’t up to the task of doing her work, only looking to disparage this woman. She was a fortunate soul who needed nothing but her religion to give her the fortitude to help those that most of us would not even look at.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JeffH,
            SEE???WHATV DID I TELL YOU?!?!?!?!?

          • JeffH

            Joe H., when people like eddie don’t have someone to lead them, tell them what to say, they just say stupid things…ya know what Forrest Gump said about people like that? Stupid is as stupid does!

      • JeffH

        I’m not even sure I understand your question?

      • bob wire

        The question is; “is it somehow better that the Koch brothers and their interest instead of Wisconsin unions to represent the people of Wisconsin?”

        • JeffH

          bob, perhaps I’m stupid, but I still can’t decipher your question? Maybe you could break it down to a simpler form so even I can understand exactly what the question was.

        • JeffH

          bob, I’m guessing here but Walker is the one repreenting the “people” of Wisconsin, not the Koch Bros. or the unions.

          It’s well known that the Koch Bros donated $43,000 to Walker but how much money have the unions donated to the Democrats?

          The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that at least one out of every five campaign dollars received by the 14 Wisconsin Democratic senators who have fled the state to protect union influence came from public-sector workers and their labor representatives. Public-employee unions have raised $1.9 million in campaign dollars since 2007. Of that total, union and public-sector employee donated at least $344,000 to them.

          “We have interests, and because of that we attempt to support candidates who support our interests,” Richard Abelson of the District Council 48 of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees (AFSCME).

          In addition, the Journal Sentinel reports that the AFSCME and the SEIU national unions donated over $1.3 million to liberal advocacy organizations in Wisconsin, which promote Democratic candidates.
          http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/wisconsin-democrats-unions-donations/2011/02/28/id/387810

          • bob wire

            “bob, I’m guessing here but Walker is the one representing the “people” of Wisconsin, not the Koch Bros. or the unions.”

            I can’t deny that that was the intent of the election process. As far as where his alliance and priorities lies, that is much in question at the moment. For now, he’s got over a 100 thousand unhappy campers camped out on the capital lawn and 13,000 on his hometown lawn to welcome his arrival.

            We are left to wait and see to truly know if he indeed represents the people of Wisconsin,the job he hired out for. He’s in for a year before they can start a recall as I understand it. The recalls on several GOP senators are moving along at a rapid pace, so they say.

            It appears that Walker has disappointed a few people so far. Is it enough?

          • JeffH

            bob, Recalls were designed to remove corrupt or wayward senators and representatives that broke the publlic trust. One of the arguments being used against Wisconsin Republicans is that they used undemocratic or legislative tricks to get the bill passed while the state’s Democratic senators hid in Illinois. W

            The Wisconsin Republicans waited a month before passing the union reform legislation. Democrats, directed by their union bosses, fled across the state line to prevent a vote in the state senate on the bill. Without a quorum of 20 senators, the 19 Republicans couldn’t bring a vote to the floor. State Republican leaders then figured out a loophole. They didn’t need a quorum for a non-financial bill. They only needed a majority of those present. They passed the bill and the Democrats screamed “foul.” It is upon this basis they are now about to bring suit in court and argue to the general public that Republicans should be recalled.

            Now think about this? For the caterwauling and hand wringing, the Democrats are at a moral disadvantage. You see, this is precisely the method the Democratic Party used to pass Obamacare. For them to holler about using legislative tricks is intellectually dishonest. To get Obamacare through the U.S. Senate, they had to resort to the same kinds of tricks the Republicans used in Wisconsin.

            Now, suddenly, out of the blue, the Socialist Workers wing of the Democratic Party is screaming bloody murder that using legislative tricks abuses the process. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and they are livid.

            Legislative actions must be open and accommodating. Disagreements must be considered and taken into account. When the Republicans united against the HCR bill, they were being obstructionists. Since the Democratic Party is out of power in Wisconsin, almost overnight, they cry and wail about process. This argument gets no sympathy here. The Democrats need to pull down their skirts, their hypocrisy is showing.

          • bob wire

            I notice today Dade county just did a recall on their GOP mayor.

            pink slip, sent packing. Mishandling of business is the claim.

            seems he was into his second 4 year term.

            I don’t know how this is going to go Jeff, it is not over but I think just begun. I don’t mean that as a threat, I’m not an attorney but I feel certain they will find a few sympathetic to their cause.

            It fun to see history being made and preside being set and redefined don’t you agree?

            It would be a stretch to suggest Walker political aspirations hang in a fine balance today. I believe he had bought the package and has hope to ascend but I don’t believe he is thinking any farther then a few years ahead.

            The way I see Walker dream is privatized government functions out to friend and people “found worthy” ~ and staff operations with the working poor. 86 the public school system and hand out vouchers that can be credited toward some kind of an education yet to be determined. Add a little cash to the vouchers and the education might improve.

            Presto change-o , smaller government and more jobs.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            bob,
            “right now he’s got 100,000 unhappy campers”. Ever stop to think they’re mad because they thought they had something bought and paid for, then found they DIDN’T????

    • http://deleted Claire

      JeffH–And this is exactly why the Republicans governors want to bust the unions—the unions contribute heavily to the Democratic party. They have to do this to seal the fate of Obama and company. Scott Fitzgerald even said on TV that it will be harder for Obama to get re-elected with the unions being busted. It is the game of politics, left or right, someone will win, someone will lose. And personally I don’t give a hoot for any of them that are running for office. The man I would vote for apparently is not going to run for POTUS.

      • JeffH

        Claire, that’s why I’m going to write in Ted Nugent…at least you know what you’re getting and he’s all about freedom and liberty and the American flag.

        • http://deleted Claire

          JeffH–I still like Ron Paul.

          • JeffH

            Claire, me too! TN was a little tongue in cheek!

        • Eddie47d

          Ted Nugent is an animal and is as distorted on the right as Michael Moore on the left. Get real Jeff!

          • JeffH

            eddie, again you’ve no more knowledge about Ted Nugent than you do about anything else…chirp chirp chirp is all you say.

            “Reality” is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or may be thought to be.

            Try it, you might like it!

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    Libertytrain,

    What did Dr. King said about unions?

    ——————————————————
    ‎”History is a great teacher. Now everyone knows that the labor movement did not diminish the strength of the nation but enlarged it. By raising the living standards of millions, labor miraculously created a market for industry and lifted the whole nation to undreamed of levels of production. Those who attack labor forget these simple truths, but history remembers them.”
    – Martin Luther King

    • libertytrain

      coal you brought up Poland. I can’t ask Dr. King anything though would like to. And his time was even before Mr. Walesa and his fight. So much has changed in these last 40 years or so. I don’t know what Dr. King would say today.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        He would say the same thing.Remmber the west virginian coal miners?

        • libertytrain

          Like I said, you brought up Poland and that’s what I responded to.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Libertytrain 1

            you don’t know half what you are talking about.If you got something constructive, to say,than say it,if not,but out.

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, the coal miner is attacking you? OMG! Sorry I’m rolling on the floor over this one.

            Sorry, I’m not trying to instigate anything here, I just find the comment utterly hilarious.

          • libertytrain

            Well Jeff, considering the source it is more than funny :)

          • libertytrain

            coal, the correct phrase is “butt out” not “but out.”

  • Scott B.

    Where do you come off saying the common working mans rights are being infringed upon.BULL!!You have been so brainwashed by the unions and liberals you can’t think for yourselves.Why should the taxpayers have to pay for someone elses benefits?I am a middle class worker that belongs to a union and the taxpayers don’t pay my benefits or bloted wages. IfI were to start a buisness and be sucsesful why should I be penalized?Why is everyone demonising the sucsessful people in this country?We don’t owe you any thingGet of your lazy behinds and work for it.How do you think the so called rich got that way, they worked for it.Stop expecting everyone else to pay your way and quit your whining.I for one am tired of it.We have major defecits all over and you people are standing there with your hands out for more.Wake up we are brokeand destroying public property is adding t the debt.

    • bob wire

      “.Why should the taxpayers have to pay for someone elses benefits?I am a middle class worker that belongs to a union and the taxpayers don’t pay my benefits or bloted wages.”

      Well?, because it was agreed on as being fair confiscation for the services rendered at one time.

      These people may well not pay your wages directly, but if you live in Wisconsin indirectly they might.

      But I understand your feeling, the disparity has been too great between public and private sector for too long.

      That they have agreed to wage and pension concessions doesn’t seem to matter much at this point.

      So? Okay? who’s next?

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      liberty,

      I meant butt out,left the T out.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        Jeffh,

        I like to have good old Jim Bob back on this blog,he had everybody running for cover,including DaveH.Liberty kept her distance.That Boy of mine,we’re very proud of him.

        • libertytrain

          I don’t who jim bob is. Sorry. Never noticed a poster by that name.

        • JeffH

          Never noticed any “Jim Bob” around here. Oh yeah, maybe yer right, Isn’t he the one that married his sister? Hmmm, or was it his cousin? I seem to vaguely remember a Jim B??? or something like that who was deeply involved with one of his siblings or a close relative though. I think!

  • patrick

    Funny thing is, as i wrote earlier about unions and City of Minneapolis and the sanitation dept. scams. King was shot and killed when he was doing what? Yup you guessed it, he was marching with a sanitation dept and the unions, trying to get more money and unreal benefits!
    Also, when I wrote about the Liberal democrats and their coozy deals with the unions in Minnesota, no body wants to dispute the real FACTS. They always seem to go off in their favorite complaints and never address the real problems.

    • bob wire

      well Patrick, I don’t believe that you can insure against criminal behavior. Unions don’t make such a promise or claim.

      We experience much the same criminal activity from the mayor’s office down to the garbage man here in Fort Worth and there are no unions presence.

      I’m not question the validity of your complaint but to suggest a non union work place might prevent it is a stretch to offer us or to ask anyone to respond to it.

    • Eddie47d

      partrick;The sanitation workers in Memphis in 1968 were treated like the garbage they were picking up so get over yourself!

  • Dennis Patrick

    Everyone recite the mindless chant together:

    Democrats bad
    Republicans good

    Democratic ideas bad
    Republican ideas good

    Repeat until you feel your mind slip away…

    No grey area – no THINKING required. Same old insults and garbage from phonies like JeffH, 45 caliber and i41 – no discussion of ideas, instead, to them, disagreement is a disease, an illness, unnatural. Wow – free thinking is unnatural to the sheep around here.

  • JeffH

    Dennis Patrick, speaking of phonies and a non-thinker. There is nothing you just stated that contributed to this forum, other than your simpleminded rhetoric. Heard it before and I’m sure I’ll hear it again…it passes like water rolling off a duck’s back. What other name(s) might you have posted under in the past so that we might know which liberal hack you are.

    If I’ve posted something that is untrue, I offer you the opportunity to prove otherwise.

    • Eddie47d

      Duh,attacking protesters and saying they were bankrolled by the DNC?

      • bob wire

        Yea Eddie, that seems to be where the conversation in leading, who’s financing the party! And of course that what this is all about from the beginning. It’s an attempt to hit the DNC in the pocket book and render them ineffective on the political playing field.

        That they can’t compete on the issues, or the record they decided to dam the river upstream and dry the DNC up.

        It’s a clever move on their part and they have brought valid issue to light in regards to how unions collect funds and support candidates maybe you might not otherwise support or that they are public unions and not private sector labor unions and are indeed paid with tax revenues and a little overfed.

        So, these are valid issues, like it or not. But rather the correct them, they plan to dissolve unions and disrupt the balance of power.

        I believe there is some good in all of this and will “maybe” only make the DNC stronger and the country better off for it.

        Not to suggest I’m going along with their end game plan but quite the contra.

        Considering the GOP enjoys large support, in fact their contributor are so large they they hide their names or hide behind names like “Cross Roads GPS” (Karl’s new face lift) I admit it looks better then Jerry Jones.

        If we get into a tit for tat with campaign contributions, dollars for dollar, the GOP enjoys much more special interest support the the DNC. But they wish to kill the DNC’s primary money source, why? they don’t won’t the opposing, they don’t wish to share government with the people.

        Rich men and politicians will run the nation and the people are sheep to be sheared until they can figure out a way to do without them. If you are worth more dead then alive, your future is looking grim.

        That’s where “this” is going, seems people would rather believe wealthy mens lies, ~ there will come a time they will no longer need to hide their intent or tell lies.

        It is then the real revolution will take place, 10 ,15 years from today.

        • http://deleted Claire

          The world scenario brings to my mind an old 60s song by Barry McGuire– “Eve of Destruction” –the words to this song has a familiar ring with today’s events.

      • JeffH

        I responded to your unfounded accusation after your first rant. I’m right and you don’t know what you’re talking about! I most certainly don’t expect you to apologise to me though. It’s just not in your make-up to do so. You’d rather make a fool of yourself instead.

        • JeffH

          Just in case you’re to lazy or don’t know how to look it up, I’ll leave a link for you to follow…DUH!
          The Democratic National Committee’s Organizing for America arm — the remnant of the 2008 Obama campaign — is playing an active role in organizing protests against Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker’s attempt to strip most public employees of collective bargaining rights.
          http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0211/DNC_playing_role_in_Wisconsin_protests.html

          • bob wire

            So you see something wrong with the DNC supporting 14 democratic senators and opposing a GOP governor?

            Why?

            Would you see something wrong with the GOP supporting a GOP governor?

            Was there something I missed in your links?

          • JeffH

            bob, if you don’t understand the gist of the comment or the question it answered, please ask, I’ll be more than happy to explain.

        • JeffH

          Oh, one more thing eddie, you said “bankrolled” not I and not my words but yours…still not comprehending very well I see.

      • JeffH

        eddie, I’ve always extended to you the opportunity to prove otherwise but you tend to fail miserably. Is it because you don’t have control of your emotions or you have no proof other than your imagination? Either/or would be my “guess”…but only your hairdresser knows for sure.

        • Eddie47d

          Just like Bob Wire said the Republican elites don’t want to share the American dream with anyone. They are the upper crust and refuse to mingle with the”lowly Democrats”. As long as they have theirs they don’t want anyone else to get theirs. Too many of them look at Democrats as trailer trash. I say fight back for we served our country and worked hard for what we achieved and they sure as heck won’t be putting their boot heel on us anytime soon. They won the last dirty deal in Wisconsin and the line has been drawn in the sand.

          • JeffH

            eddie, keep on drinking the kool aid and swallowing the swill and, of course, riding the coat tails of your liberal buddies. You know nothing, nada, except how to be a fool in the face of adversity.

          • JeffH

            eddie, can’t you even answer a simple question rather than just shooting your mouth off with unrelated gibberish? Stupid is as stupid does!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Gee eddie that would be kinda hypocrital of me, calling you trailor trash, seeing as how my father owned a 14 x72 trailor on two acres in Michigan and from the time I was about 12 or 13 I lived with him there!!! upper crust, ME??? Hardly!! worked all my life for what I’ve got? Most definatly!! I haven’t smoked in eleven years nor drank in 30 years and my wife and I put all that savings toward our house and it’s ours free of any mortgage!! We set priorities, work hard, and invest what we can. We have done all right for ourselves and plan on staying together till we die! THATS what a lot of you dem/progs don’t understand. THE WORLD DON’T OWE YOU A DAMN THING!!! EARN IT!!!

          • Eddie47d

            Don’t patronize me Joe. I see you like to play both sides like Jeff. You claim to be honest and a working man but turn against other workers who happen to earn a little more than you. That is jealous Ignorance and you are playing it very well. I’ve been married 38 yrs. and my debt is in good shape and my credit has been 820 for 15 yrs. So go play your self righteous crap somewhere else if you don’t know what you are talking about. Yes, Republicans do think Democrats are less American than they are so if the shoe fits wear it.

          • JeffH

            Joe H., do you find that eddie is a little jealous of others that actually work hard for what they own and have the ability to think on their own?

            eddie, you are just envious and jealous! The only defense you have is fronted with stupid questions and stupid accusations.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        eddie,
        suggest you check out my post right after that one!!!

  • bob wire

    It’s best to not get too far off the path and not dabble in character flaming, focused or in general terms Dennis.

    This is a proclaimed “conservative” zone, you are behind enemy lines and it’s wise to keep a low profile.

    Are you here to be heard or just piss people off?

    Attempt to reason, win friends and influence people, listen, learn, like you would a 1800 pound stallion. You can’t depend on muscle to make him do anything. You are greatly out matched.

    It’s easy to annoy people and shut them down, find something more difficult to do.

    Answers are easy and a dime a dozen, ask a hard question, construct 20 ways to ask it.

  • http://NA John

    This is interesting. Let me see if I got this right. I just got through reading the wording of this bill and it does the following:

    1. Prevents mandatory dues being forced from people. Near as I can tell this was so that people who did not like how the union was sending money to specific candidates for office, or for political campaigns in general, would not be forced to support what they did not want to support. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Not sure why this is considered so hateful?

    2. Ends collective bargaining for Benifits but keeps collective bargain for wages. So from what I can see most media and those complaining are lying about what was ended versus what continues? This is supposed to allow the state to fix the biggest problem they have, which of course is entitlements (benifits). Again I dont see a problem here, it’s at least fair with what everyone else in the state has to contend with. Completely 100% fair.

    So far I cant find anything here to warrant protests. If this does not happen, the state will end up bankrupt, which then means all those folks protesting loose everything, benifits, retirement, a job, everything. The folks being taxed are about at the end. You cant take more from them and still have an economy. And from where I sit, I’m not going to be happy being taxed so that a few (compared to the population) get a cushy retirement, while I end up living in a cardboard box, with nothing. And if they dont cut taxes soon, there wont be anymore jobs to support all those cushy government jobs with benifits no one else gets.

    Lets take it a step further. If the Federal government does not stop spending now. The dollar wont be worth anything within a year. Then all you folks protesting will have dollars that cant buy anything, not even a single nut from a can of nuts. So if the states dont get in order (as wisconsin is trying to do and california isn’t), then prevent the feds from anymore spending, we are all basically screwed. And you folks want to protest? I hope you get exactly what you deserve for being so selfish.

    I guess I have come to the conclusion that the protestors in this case are just plain evil people, or are people who dont really understand whats going on because they are being lied to so often. People who have an ultimate goal of making sure I, and most Americans cant survive. Well this is one Army West Point Vet who wont just roll over and die on command.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      John,
      this is also being considered here in Ohio, and I hope it passes here as well!!!

  • jopa

    jeffh: Your choice for president is one of the biggest phonies of all time Ted Nugent.He has his little wild animal preserve in lower Michigan where he has someone hold a camera while he sneaks up on the animal and shoots it.Same animal he was hand feeding twenty minutes earlier.A widely used hunting technique in Texas.When I lived in Upper Michigan I remember chicken sh== Ted would come up to hunt bear with dogs.Shooting bear out of a tree what a hero.Totally frowned upon by the Yoopers.

    • JeffH

      jopa, not an unexpected answer from you. Just more of your meaningless liberal diatribe filled with envy and jealousy.

  • jopa

    Eddie: They won the last battle but it looks like the Dems will win the war.The true spirit of the working will always end up being the winner if everyone sticks together.Walker will be a hiker when he has his year in even less time than Sarah.Remember her?

    • http://?? Joe H.

      jopa
      Sarah must have done something right. YOU remember her!!! YOU DEMS are still scared $hitless of her!!!

      • JeffH

        Joe H., truer words have not been spoken. As if they haven’t hated her enough already. That is what they are best at…hate. Here is a link showing the latest example of the media’s hatred for Sarah Palin! What’s next?
        http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51218.html

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    I just canceled my subscription to Time mag, which has become another tool
    for the left wing Marxist loons. What they are trying to do in Wis.
    is a crime against the Governor and the Republican law makers. This is all backed by Obama and his thugs along with the unions and their
    thugs. We need to stand together, if we are to save this country.
    Obama threw is own Progressive (Democrat) congressman under the bus
    and when he is done using up these union bosses and their thugs,he will throw them under the bus, right along with the Congressmem.He
    needs them now, to bring down America.If he suceeds, the time will come,
    when he won`t need the unions anymore. They will fall right along
    with the rest of us, if the union workers keep listening to their
    union boses. They wouldn`t be in the jam their in, if it wasn`t for that
    big word greed.Tell me of one healthy regular person in the private
    sector,
    who can retire at
    age 40 or 50. I don`t know any unless they hit the lotorey or stock
    market big time.

  • GOD

    Hey eddie47d that money you and the rest of the union deadwood earn is not yours. It is mine so send it to me so I can put it to better use.

  • jopa

    If Sarah Palin runs I will vote for her so donate evrything you got and put her and Orly Tates on the ballot.I miss her since she left the limelight.

Bottom
close[X]

Sign Up For Personal Liberty Digest™!

PL Badge

Welcome to PersonalLiberty.com,
America's #1 Source for Libertarian News!

To join our group of freedom-loving individuals and to get alerts as well as late-breaking conservative news from Personal Liberty Digest™...

Privacy PolicyYou can opt out at any time. We protect your information like a mother hen. We will not sell or rent your email address to anyone for any reason.