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Voters In California Say ‘No’ To Legalizing Recreational Marijuana Use

November 9, 2010 by  

Voters in California say 'no' to legalizing recreational marijuana useCalifornia voters rejected the latest attempt to legalize recreational marijuana use by rejecting Proposition 19 on Nov. 2. If approved, the ballot measure would have made it legal for state residents 21 or older to grow small amounts of pot for personal use.

The latest totals reveal that approximately 56 percent of California voters opposed the change. Some backers of Prop. 19 said that the election feels like a victory despite a defeat and they plan on raising the question again in 2012.

"This is the first time major elected officials and labor unions and civil rights organizations have endorsed a marijuana legalization measure," Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, told ABC News. "The debate is less about whether to legalize marijuana and increasingly about how to legalize marijuana."

Many opponents of Prop. 19 believe that legalizing marijuana is a threat to public safety and it wouldn't generate much tax revenue. White House drug policy director Gil Kerlikowske was happy with the 'no' decision from voters, saying that marijuana use is associated with voluntary treatment for addiction, fatal drugged-driving accidents and mental illness.

In Arizona and South Dakota, voters shot down measures that would have legalized medical marijuana. In Oregon, voters rejected a law that would have allowed medical marijuana to be sold in dispensaries.

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  • terry M

    The only ones that will be happy about this are the dealers and the alcohol and pharmaceutical companies

    • vicki

      Much money to be made keeping marijuana illegal including all those RICO confiscations.

  • Historian

    When are we going to stop chasing the imaginary monster “marijuana” and start spending our limited resources wisely?

    Now, if only the medical marijuana barons (big and small) will stop defending their monopoly by opposing rational reform efforts (e.g., Prop. 19) and see the bigger picture, we might finally be able to bring it all into the light and benefit everyone. Enough with the fake fears of corporations taking over cannabis production and distribution. Alcohol is legal, yet you can still brew your own beer, buy corporate Coors or Bud, or enjoy a fine microbrew. How would a legalized marijuana industry be any different?

    As one wise man said, cops too often don’t understand “medical,” but they do understand “legal.”

    • http://naver sook young

      Sorry, but being a nurse for 20 – 21 years, I must disagree with you. This drug does so much harm to the human body, especially the brain, that I can’t even begin to understand why someone would be foolish enough to want this legalized unless they’re doing it themselves. Soryy, but it is illegal and should stay that way. Thank you.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai

      • TIME

        Sook,
        I have to disagree with you based on “sound science,” Pot has no lasting effects on your brain at all.

        If anything it will expand your abilitys to grasp concepts that are harder to grasp. Its also not a drug, its an HERB, and it was 100% legal in all countries until the 1960′s when the US Government started its insaine war on it, from the same old fart that started the war on it in the 1930′s, that would be Anslinger progressive Marxist Pig from FDR admin.

        Strange is it not that all the hoopla about it was used to start the DEA, by non other than Bent Tricky Dicky Nixon, if that fails to wake anyone up, then this should help.

        The Alledged Drug Cartell’s bread and butter comes from the sale of $500 Plus Billion dollars worth of Pot per year, that money goes back to Mexico people.
        If it were legal said cartells would wither up and die a slow death. And guess what else, you would see far fewer crimes by Illegals, let alone far fewer Illegals here in the US.
        That alone would reduce the US Tax Payers over $800 Billion dollars per year, and in just two short years thats $1.6 Trillion dollars saved, WOW talk about reducing the cost.

        Not one single person has ever died from the use of Pot, nor will anyone ever die from the use of pot. Even if you smoked a million pounds of it. Why the “Cabinioids” are good for you and will repair any damage that may come from smoking it.

        Deaths per year from Aloohol related issues 150,000
        Deaths per year from “over eating” related Issues,300,000
        Deaths per year from just being plain stupid about,75,000

        Has anyone ever gotten cancer from smoking pot, NO, -
        Cigarettes – Yes – Deaths per year from smoking cigarettes is about 125,000 please see just being plain stupid above.

        So where’s the problem, is it really pot or is it just total missinformation, as the science will fall on the total missinformation factor.

        • Al Sieber

          TIME, I agree with you, living in a border state we’re tired of violence and drug cartels and it’s gonna get a lot worse now.

          • Bob Wire

            You here about the shoot out in Matamoris this weekend, 47 dead.

            The Gulf Cartel main man was in town and Federalizes got him. 30 in one fire fight and 17 in another. Southeast of the Main Square off Sexta Street at a hotel.

            I say the main man, the main man is in prison, it was his brother.

          • Al Sieber

            B. Wire, you can hear gunfire all night along certain parts of the border. the cartels are taking over the border towns, one by one.

          • Steve

            the border should be protected by the military….but our American hating friend George Soros forked up 1.2 million to help pass prop 19…now why would he do that?…What’s the return on that investment?….perhaps a dumbed down population is easier for him to try and control?

        • MR MYTH

          TIME

          My wife just read your reply to Sook Young and thought I had written it.

          I’ve been saying everything you stated for 20 years. It feels good to see that others share the same grasp on history and facts around this subject.

          Speaking of Tricky Dick … when he took office he appointed a committee, lead by then Gov. Shaffer of PA, to research and study the effects of marijuana on our society. In short … their findings led to decriminalization. What did Nixon do? Classified the results, buried them, and promptly tossed a measly $300 mil. into the war against it.

          Here’s one for the books. Marijuana is a part of the Counter Culture
          consisting of tens of millions of people. Don’t we have laws that protect different cultures in this country? Let’s see … what’s it called now … oh yea. The Federal Hate Crimes Act.

          • TIME

            Mr. Myth,
            Welcome to the sight, I cured my self by the use of hemp oil I had cancer and at the time it was found I was told I had no more than 6 – 10 weeks to live that was over 18 months ago.

            Since then I have helped 53 others with the same cure, all are doing great. I just had my check up and am still now after a full year 100% cancer free.

            I fear that we have so many who have gone down the path of the progressive’s crazy path that Pot is evil its now a mantra of the brain dead. Thats bloody sad.

      • jimmy joe

        Sook Young,You Are Exactly Right. Most OfThose Who Are For The

      • jimmy joe

        Sook Young,You Are Exactly Right. Most Of Those Who Are For The Legalizing Of Marijuana,Are themselves,Potheads,Or UnInformed People that Believe That Lawless Obsessions,And Addictions Represent Freedom.There Is No such thing As A free Society,Without An Expectation Of Standards.That Would Be A Free For All,Not Freedom.There Are Always Some Who Can Smoke Marijuana,Like Alcohol Responsibly.But Most Unfortunetely Do not.Which Burdens The Taxpayers Doctors,And Nurses,Like Yourself With The Destruction Caused,And More Deadbeats,And Predators,In Society.And It Amazes me How Many,Especially The Anti-Big Government Folks Like Myself.Suddenly Have So Much Faith In Government,Being Their Dealer,And Distributor.Especially When they Did Such A Bang-Up Job In Vietnam,With Heroin Skag,Marijuna,Hashish,And Thai’Sticks.To Advance The Democrat Parties Population Control Experiments,In The Name Of Environmentalism.Combined With Don’t Shoot Unless Fired Upon.That Is Still Being Enforced Against Our Military Today.That Contributed To Over 58 Thousand Deaths In Vietnam.But yet Sorcery/Marijuana.Doesn’t Hurt Any body?As An Ex Pot Head I know Better.Its Time We Start Conducting Our Own Lives Like Our Sacrificial Lambs.Who Put the Interest,And Duty To Country,Their Fellowman,And Brothers In Arms Before Satisfying their Own Eye On The Prize,And Quick Fix,Selfish Pleasures.We Always Have Expectations of Everyone else,But Little Expectations From Ourselves To Sacrifice Something We Want,For Something the Country Needs.Its Easy to vote,And Protest But The Real Patriots Are the One’s Willing to Sacrifice their Own Selfish Pleasures,On Behalf Of A stronger,More Stable,And Sober America.Just Try It;Reality Is A great Challenge,When You Are Willing to Face Your Demons,And Your Enemies Head-On.Instead of Looking For Your Courage,Or Hiding From Reality,Behind Mind Seduction Sorcery/drugs.

        • Shibamom

          The only result from smoking large quantities of weed is getting fat because you get really hungry and you would go to sleep. There has never been any proven ill effect from smoking weed. Any issues arising from drug use in Vietnam was from stronger drugs like heroin, cocaine, etc….not weed. Our society has been force fed negative propaganda about weed for years about how it’s the “gateway” drug, causes brain damage, etc. For years I heard about the really old movie called Reefer Madness and finally I got to see it about 2 or 3 years ago. I laughed my ass off at all the hypocrital misinformation spewed through that entire movie. About how weed causes insanity, makes you commit murder, etc. Of all the illegal drugs, weed is so much less a threat that it’s really silly that folks are criminalized for using it. It is absolutely ludricuous that I can drink myself to death, causing harm and chaos all around me to my family and friends…but it’s LEGAL!! Cigarettes are the leading cause of cancer and cardiovascular problems…but they’re LEGAL!!! Oh…and how about all those really SAFE prescription drugs that doctors are all too happy to hand out?? Come on, get real!

        • a progressive nightmare

          Well put and good for you giving up the weed. Life is difficult at best much less compounding your problems with dope. I get high on life and helping others achieve things they thought impossible. Take away the THC and the resulting bad behavior and someone willing to listen and learn can become a VERY productive and HAPPY person. Given the current state of our nation, I think all of us need to reflect on who we are and what impact OUR behavior has on future generations lest we all perish in the foolishiness and folly of a drug enduced euphoric mindset.

          • MR MYTH

            Marijuana has nothing to do with the state of OUR (meaning everybody) Nation. Self-serving, corrupt Politians bent on doing what’s best for Corp. America instead of what’s best for “We The People”. Think about it. All those brilliant minds in Government working together every single day to make this country the best it can possibly be. Yea right!

            THINK!

          • a progressive nightmare

            MM…..Thinking requires concentration which is something a drugged mind cannot do. Your point?

          • Karolyn

            I believe you are wrong to say that using pot disallows concentration. It’s been many years for me but I recall just the opposite effect from smoking pot.

          • a progressive nightmare

            karolyn….and it seems the affects of your historical pot smoking are still present in your current “Thinking”.

        • MR MYTH

          SORCERY? Give me a break! Define “Pot Head”. I know serveral people who
          enjoy the affects of cannibus after a days work. A couple of them run their own business and are very successful. The rest are good hard working employees in what ever they do. In fact, I’ve seen a couple plaques reading “Employee of The Month” in there some where.

          Sorry but you are way wrong. Lazy poeple that smoke cannibus are just lazy people by nature. I know one. He’s always been a lazy person and always will be regardless.

          My point is…You shouldn’t lable people based on YOUR experience.
          Open your mind to diversity.

          • a progressive nightmare

            MM….My mind is open to the FACTS of life’s experiences not your self serving opinions and/or habits that negatively affects others.

          • jimmy joe

            SORCERY;Meaning Pharma,Meaning Mind,Or Body Altering.The Bible Makes It Clear.But Again Sorcery Deciples Will never Go Where Truth Is Told,Only Where Those Who Tell Them What They Want To Hear.To Justify Their Obsessive Natures.Again You make Marijuana Such A priority,For Your Life,But You Are Not Making It Your God?You Give Such High Esteem to your Government,As Your Dealer,And Distributer.You Have to Be Stoned to Believe Government Won’t Over Regulate,Over Tax,And Dilute Your Pot Supply.Right After you legalize It.Just t have more control over your life,Or Willingness to Covet from your neighbors.Just to Pay For Your Fix.As For The Drug,And Sex Traffickers,From Mexico.”SUPPLY,AND DEMAND”They Only Exist Because Of John’s,And Pimps Like you.But of Course Marijuana Isn’t Addictive.OOOOH EEEEEH;

        • Craig

          You do know that you are not supposed to capitalize the first letter of every word, don’t you? Your post look like a retard typed them.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Craig,
            Just because you don’t agree with a persons post doesn’t mean you have to hunt for things like typing or spelling to belittle them. Or is it that you can’t come up with a viable argument???

          • TIME

            But Joe, Craig just pointed out a fact thats really quite clear.

          • a progressive nightmare

            Time…. I had no problem reading his post. Seemed to be “Quite Clear” to me. You seem to assert yourself as superior to others. You assert yourself as the all-powerfull money maker that contributes large sums of money to an ever growing list of charities, you manage MILLIONS while toking on your favorite weed, you ask GOD to have mercy on those that would dare disagree with you, you complain about the spec in your brothers eye but cannot see for the plank in yours, and then your self-proclaimed importance has been self-documented for all of us to clearly see.

            I think the term you applied to me, “Sociapath”, fits you pretty well. It may be the THC factor, you think?

      • 45caliber

        sook:

        I’ve seen other nurses and doctors say the same. This is one reason I’m NOT a Libertarian.

        At one time (about 1900 or so) it all was legal. You could go to any pharmacy in this country and get any of it. Cheap too. But in the early ’20′s it was obvious that too many people were on it and were causing crimes and a lot of families problems. That’s why it was outlawed.

        They managed to control it by sending all those using and selling the now illegal drugs to prison – on the “hard rock pile”. Those who went didn’t want to go back – the prison life was too hard. Now? It’s only a college to learn how to better steal and kill.

        • http://naver sook young

          Thank you 45 calibur.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

      • barbm

        i smoked pot all the way through college which took me 7 years because i went through a bout of cancer about half way through. i’ve never had anything kill pain so quickly or nausea so completely. i graduated with a 3.2 gpa while rearing 2 children as a single parent who had to work full-time and received no child support. i’m just as sharp today at 62 and retain 96% of anything i see or hear. so, what’ you’re saying is a darn lie.

      • vicki

        And what is your position on the continued legal use of alcohol and tobacco?

        • http://?? Joe H.

          vicky,
          I use neither and I wouldn’t use pot as well. I don’t need a crutch to get me through normal life. Now if it is used for medical uses then I know it does help certain illnesses and by that I’m in favor of it! If you don’t have one of those illnesses, then it is just a crutch like other drugs or alcohol!

          • Vicki

            Joe H. Like yourself I don’t need a crutch to get me through normal life. I rarely even use aspirin (or equiv).

      • Marten

        You are so full of S***!!!!

        • http://naver samurai

          Watch your mouth azzhole! You must be one of those potheads that came to this site to stir the waters. The lady is a nurse and is more educated and qualified to know what the drug can do to the human body then your stupid arse! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Historian

            Samurai: All respect to you and your wife, but she’s simply saying things that aren’t factually true and are easily confirmable as such. As a nurse, she should really know better or at the very least be willing to do the research to confirm or deny her assumptions.

            Objective facts should matter when forming an opinion — if she thinks that sound scientific studies published in peer-reviewed medical journals are irrelevant when discussing an issue that is essential a matter of health and physiology, then perhaps she should find a new line of work unrelated to the medical field.

            Personal observations are certainly valuable, but it’s patently absurd to suggest that her anecdotal encounters with 100 or even 1,000 identified marijuana users are more valuable than scientific evaluations of literally hundreds of thousands of marijuana users from all walks of life and from all states, regions and countries.

            As a “real” historian, I’m sure you can imagine where we’d be if everyone thought this way about the value of scientific inquiry (e.g., maggots born of meat, the Sun rotating around the flat Earth, sunshine as a disinfectant, etc.).

          • Historian

            Samurai: I neglected to ask why you end every post with “FOR GOD AND COUNTRY.” Are you meaning to imply that your position and only your position on the subject is patriotic?

            As an historian, I’m sure you’ll remember the words of Samuel Johnson: “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” April 7, 1775

            Perhaps, I should follow your lead and end all my posts with this profound decree.

  • Historian

    Sook Young: You must be kidding. Do a rudimentary Google search or better yet, use your access as a nurse to search PubMed and see what the wealth of medical literature says about marijuana and THC. You’ll find that cannabis is remarkably less toxic than alcohol, tobacco and most of the chemicals and foods we commonly consume. Surprisingly, it’s responsible for virtually no adverse physical conditions even after years of heavy use. As a nurse, I’m sure you’re aware that pure THC in the form of Marinol (dronabinol) capsules are regularly prescribed to patients in all 50 states as a Class III drug (the same schedule as Codeine) and longterm users of this medication suffer no “harm to the human body, especially the brain.” In fact, no warnings of potential harm to the brain or any other organ are listed on the product insert of the medication.

    Even the former Surgeon General of the United States came out in favor of Prop. 19 passing. Do you think that she’s “doing it” herself?

    That said, marijuana has been legal in California for over 14 years now. Anyone who wants to consume cannabis is able to do so by either paying a nominal fee to register with the state as a “patient” (which allows them to freely consume, cultivate and purchase marijuana) or paying a $100 citation (on par with a non-criminal parking ticket) if they encounter police while smoking.

    Prop. 19 would have changed nothing except for to regulate and tax currently unregulated and untaxed marijuana sales. With Prop. 19′s failure, the same people smoke marijuana, they just pay no taxes on it (well, medical marijuana purchasers & sellers pay state and federal taxes, but I digress…).

    • http://naver samurai

      Sorry dude, but take it from a real historian that illegal is illegal. Some states do have it on the books for medicinal reasons, but I bet you it is closely guarded to stay that way. I hope it always stays illegal. You say it doesn’t effect anyone or their lives? Tell that to the people who are victims of crimes by people on these drugs or commit a crime because they need a fix. You are also wrong that the THC in the drug does damage the brain and its fuctions after years of heavy use. You don’t have to look any farther than Willie Nelson to see that. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Robert

        samurai,
        Didn’t Willie Nelson lose his golf course for tax evesion? Was he using his tax money for reef? Just food for thought.

      • Al Sieber

        Yeah, marijuana is really bad, just watch the old movie “Reefer Madness”, there’s real proof.

        • Disgusted

          The movie industry portrays anyone that has smoked pot as acting absurd and stupid. It is not like that. If you have never tried it then you probably believe that is the way people act. It is not. I don’t even get the munchies and I can’t stand the taste of alcohol/beer – I only like water or iced tea. It is really upsetting that the law allows the use of alcohol and cigarettes – yet restricts the use of MaryJane. I would rather have the driver in the car next to me had just finished a dubie than closed the bar down!

          • jimmy joe

            Who Do you think are the only ones who go to liberal protest are.Demanding Everybody worship the green earth,And Involuntary Servitude/slavery(POT HEADS)

          • jimmy joe

            Two Wrongs Don’t Make A Right.But then Again,Only A Pot head Would think It Does.

        • Al Sieber

          I was just being a smart ass. I don’t does any damage, except to your lungs.

      • Dr. Mabuse

        Well Sam, here’s a few more facts for your historical consideration.
        We first look at the newspaper industry, In particular, that master of yellow journalism Wm. Randolph Hearst.

        In the mid-1930s, when the new mechanical hemp fiber stripping machines and machines to conserve hemp’s high-cellulose pulp finally became state-of-the-art, available and affordable, the enormous timber acreage and businesses of the Hearst Paper Manufacturing Division, Kimberly Clark (USA), St. Regis – and virtually all other timber, paper and large newspaper holding companies – stood to lose billions of dollars and perhaps go bankrupt.

        Coincidentally, in 1937, DuPont had just patented processes for making plastics from oil and coal, as well as a new sulfate/sulfite process for making paper from wood pulp. According to DuPont’s own corporate records and historians,* these processes accounted for over 80 percent of all the company’s railroad carloadings over the next 60 years into the 1990s.

        If hemp had not been made illegal, 80 percent of DuPont’s business would never have materialized and the great majority of the pollution which has poisoned our Northwestern and Southeastern rivers would not have occurred.

        In an open marketplace, hemp would have saved the majority of America’s vital family farms and would probably have boosted their numbers, despite the Great Depression of the 1930s.

        But competing against environmentally-sane hemp paper and natural plastic technology would have jeopardized the lucrative financial schemes of Hearst, DuPont and DuPont’s chief financial backer, Andrew Mellon of the Mellon Bank of Pittsburgh.

        There’s a racial element to this question also.
        Starting with the 1898 Spanish American War, the Hearst newspaper had denounced Spaniards, Mexican-Americans and Latinos.
        After the seizure of 800,000 acres of Hearst’s prime Mexican timberland by the “marihuana” smoking army of Pancho Villa,* these slurs intensified.
        *The song “La Cucaracha” tells the story of one of Villa’s men looking for his stash of “marijuana por fumar!” (to smoke!)

        Non-stop for the next three decades, Hearst painted a picture of the lazy, pot-smoking Mexican – still one of our most insidious prejudices. Simultaneously, he waged a similar racist smear campaign against the Chinese, referring to them as the “Yellow Peril.”

        From 1910 to 1920, Hearst’s newspapers would claim that the majority of incidents in which blacks were said to have raped white women, could be traced directly to cocaine. This continued for ten years until Hearst decided it was not “cocaine-crazed Negroes” raping white women – it was now “marijuana-crazed Negroes” raping white women.

        Hearst’s and other sensationalistic tabloids ran hysterical headlines atop stories portraying “Negroes” and Mexicans as frenzied beasts who, under the influence of marijuana, would play anti-white “voodoo-satanic” music (jazz) and heap disrespect and “viciousness” upon the predominantly white readership. Other such offenses resulting from this drug-induced “crime wave” included: stepping on white men’s shadows, looking white people directly in the eye for three seconds or more, looking at a white woman twice, laughing at a white person, etc.

        For such “crimes”, hundreds of thousands of Mexicans and blacks spent, in aggregate, millions of years in jails, prisons and on chain gangs, under brutal segregation laws that remained in effect throughout the U.S. until the 1950s and ’60s. Hearst, through pervasive and repetitive use, pounded the obscure Mexican slang word “marijuana” into the English-speaking American consciousness. Meanwhile, the word “hem” was discarded and “cannabis,” the scientific term, was ignored and buried.

        I’m sure that you being the consumate historian that you are, will find this post rather enlightening.

        • Shibamom

          Thanks Dr! Very interesting reading. It doesn’t surprise me one tiny bit that someone rich & greedy had something to do with demonizing canibus.

        • Ellen

          Dr. Mabuse: Yup, follow the money & power. That’s all it has ever been. The corporations have owned this country for a long time now and only the naive think differently. Unfortunately, this country has been under steadily growing oppression and it will not stop until we say ENOUGH.

          I find it interesting that the prohibition on alcohol was repealed after many years of astounding crime and bloodshed. When the prohibition was repealed (with no right to have prohibited it in the first place), it has become very heavily regulated and, of course TAXED. More excuses to take, rob, rape the people. The government parasites had absolutely NOTHING to do with its creation or production but they sure demand the serfs pay up to the king.

          In some states, marijuana–MEDICAL MARIJUANA–(of course, the medical mafia will own this) is ALLOWED and very heavily taxed, regulated and pretty much kept from the people. Only a very small amount is allowed in the hands of the SOVEREIGN people.

          When is it ENOUGH?

          • Vigilant

            Ellen,

            You would do well to actually READ the Constitution before you blurt, “When the prohibition was repealed (with no right to have prohibited it in the first place)…)”

            A Constituted people can prohibit ANYTHING they want, including scratching your backside or picking your nose in public. It’s called the Constitutional amendmenr process, and it’s as legal as it gets.

          • vicki

            Vigilant: And when these people (Democrats) get enough votes to outlaw the possession of Firearms are you really going to support this clear violation of a Sovereign people?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Ellen,
            Guns are a God given right and even the constitution has an ammendment that says it, this right, shall not be abridged!! No where in the constitution does it say that the right to pick your nose shall not be abridged!!

          • Vigilant

            vicki said,

            “Vigilant: And when these people (Democrats) get enough votes to outlaw the possession of Firearms are you really going to support this clear violation of a Sovereign people?”

            I refer you once again to the Constitution. It takes a hell of a lot more than votes in Congress to outlaw possession of firearms. Check out what it takes to Amend the Constitution.

            The Supreme Court’s recent ruling has dispensed with any ideas of overriding the Second Amendment, and I feel entirely confident in saying that we will never overturn the right to bear arms in this country.

            But let’s take your hypothetical proposition at face value. If the sovereign citizens of the United States ever amended the Constitution to outlaw possession of firearms, that would then become the law of the land, and you would either be in violation of it if you wished to keep your firearms, you would obey the dictates of the law, or you would move to another country.

          • Vicki

            Joe H. says:
            “Ellen,
            Guns are a God given right and even the constitution has an ammendment that says it, this right, shall not be abridged!! No where in the constitution does it say that the right to pick your nose shall not be abridged!!”

            Joe please take a look at Amendment 9. US Constitution.
            “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

            Ellens right to pick her nose shall NOT be denied nor disparaged.

          • Vicki

            Vigilant writes:
            “I refer you once again to the Constitution. It takes a hell of a lot more than votes in Congress to outlaw possession of firearms.”

            I sure hope you are right. Like yourself I believe that the protections of the Constitution override mere law. However there are some who believe that a treaty supersceeds the explicit protections in the Constitution. If that belief holds sway then it takes a HELL of a lot less than votes in Congress to outlaw the possession of firearms.

            Fortunately there are VERY good arguments to my (our?) way of thinking.
            http://senseofevents.blogspot.com/2009/10/steam-valve-blog-offers-this-vid-of.html
            So Hillarys small arms treaty that many fear would be of no binding force on US Citizens.

            And of course I am one of those who believe that gun ownership is a natural right not given by the Constitution (It would then be just a privilege) and even IF the 2nd Amendment be repealed our right to defend or God given lives with the best tools available would still exist. Might be a bit of an uphill battle so hopefully we never go there.

          • Vicki

            Oh and I forgot to mention that the people of Chicago and Washington DC would probably disagree with Vigilant’s statement
            “It takes a hell of a lot more than votes in Congress to outlaw possession of firearms.” As they suffered for years under just such laws. Of course when finally declared unconstitutional all those laws became null and void but during the dark time people still suffered.

        • TIME

          Dr, Great post!
          Thats all 100% soild easy to find Intel that some here seem to feel is not worthy.
          Yet they live in the Progressive “Anslingers” shadows as they spew pariot like rhetoric that has zero value in both Science and TRUTH.

          What the hell is wrong with some of you that alledge to hate Marxist Progressives – yet paroit their game plan like good little mindless twits.

          I ask any of you that think Pot is bad for you this simple question what the hell is wrong with you that your still sleeping, yet want others to wake up.

          If you don’t know a good BS story yet, take the bloody time to explore the THUTH before you blast more crap out of your mouths.

          Many of you are still bound to the R v D crap and can’t grasp that one is no differant than the other, so why would keeping a Progressive law in place be of any value may I ask YOU alledged freedom lovers?

          How dare any of you so called Freedom loving people make such mindless statments as you have, “when your embrace the very laws that hold you down and take away your freedoms.”

          • a progressive nightmare

            ????? What? You ramble on and on and have said basically nothing. May be time for another hit? You think?

          • http://none Mike

            Time, Its too bad freedom loving people stop thinking freedom when it comes to something they dont like. You can state facts all day long and there are folks that wont listen. I too have known alot of smokers and used to be one myself. The ones that progressed to harder drugs had the I.Q of doorknobs and ambition to match.I wanted better things and have went on to do them. You cant cure an addictive personality. My family was a bunch of alcholics so according to most people I should be a lush. And personally really cant stand alchol.So we can continue to shout it from the rooftops and be totally ignored or work behind the scens to try and change it. I personally think there should be a prop 19 in every state every year. From now untill it passes.And call me what you want I will stand and atest my faith in god any day of the week with anyone who calls themselves a Religious person. Thanks again Time and Dr. for the sainity. Mike L.

          • vicki

            Mike writes:
            “freedom loving people stop thinking freedom when it comes to something they dont like.”

            That seems to be true for both liberals and conservatives (Not libertarians though)

          • TIME

            Mike,
            I agree with you 100%, its so bloody sad that we have people who can’t see the tree’s through the forest of confusion.

            But as per the way the human mind works, its only when the hard cold hands of the masters comes down on them for something that these same people then have issues with their rights and freedoms being taken away.
            Its to bad they just can’t grasp what this country was founded on.

          • Vicki

            It’s not their ox being gored. They don’t do pot.
            (Odd. Neither do I but I recognize the ox.)

        • MR MYTH

          I CONCUR. Good stuff Doc.

        • http://naver samurai

          Thanks Doc! It’s always good to read things from history. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Shibamom

        Samurai – Please…Weed is NOT ADDICTIVE!!! I partook years ago in my youth, non-stop, daily for several years and when I got engaged, married and had children (got responsible)…I quit smoking it. Yep…cold turkey and had not ill effects whatsoever. The only thing I felt was that I missed it…that’s it, no physical withdrawel. I think if you could check, you would find that folks who are high when they commit crimes are not high on weed. If there is anything negative to be said for weed, it’s that it does dampen your motivation and engery. Anyone that is high on weed wouldn’t have the engery or motivation to commit a crime.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Shibamom,
          After over 40 years of smoking cigarrettes I quit cold turkey, no problem other than a feeling that something was missing. Now the majority of people can’t do this so your personal experience doesn’t mean flip to me! Like I said above, if it’s for medical reasons and real ones, not a hangnail or cold, then I’m in favor of it! Other than that, like acohol and other drugs, it’s a crutch! I’ve seen honor roll students in highschool go down to a bare c average as they have trouble concentrating and lose interest in school!

      • MR MYTH

        Question is…Why is it illegal?

        1. Fabrication and mistruths
        2. OHHH the heck with it. Just follow the money trail.

        Oh by the way. Isn’t Willy Nelson a very successful person. Amazing how he ever found the time to learn how to play guitar and write all those songs. And my goodness the million some odd miles he’s traveled keeping us all entertained. Get real!

        One last thing. You ended with…God and Country.

        Read your Bible dude. First page depending on its size. Gen:1 v 11 and 12. If memory serves me it says something about creating the fruit bearing trees and vines of its kind, and the seed bearing HERB, and “GOD saw that it was good”.

        Marijuana is an HERB!

        Get over it and get a life. Live and let live.

        • jimmy joe

          So Your Definition of the bible is;(DRUGS SEX,AND ROCK&ROLL)WOW You Are A STONER;What A Mis-Intrpretation,And Blasphemous Characterization,Of God,And the Holy Bible.God Have Mercy;

          • MR MYTH

            Not what I said. Go back and read it without inputing your own words for the sake of argueing.

          • barbm

            you sound like you’re stoned, dude. can’t spell, punctuate, or string words together to make a sentence. your posts are difficult to read for normal humans.

          • vicki

            jimmy joe why are you wasting time with silly ad hominum attacks instead of reasoned debate? You sound a LOT like liberals who come here to try and tell us that our conservative ways are bad.

          • TIME

            Bubba JJ,
            It is clearly obvious your in need of a good Doc so perhaps you should be heading off for a visit very soon, that is before you hurt yourslef or someone else.

            I will pray for your speedy recovery.

        • jimmy joe

          Mr.MYTH,Good name for A False Witness,False Prophet,That Trafficks False Doctrine.So Herb Man How Often Do You Smoke Poison Ivy,And Poison Oak;OOOH WEEEEEH;

          • MR MYTH

            Seldom do I smoke, I prefer wine. I’m not religious nor do I go to church. Just stateing a fact for all the religious fanatics out there trying to claim it’s THE DEVILS WORK. Bottom line is, it’s a natural substance just like a million other things I could name. Everybody has likes and dislikes and at some point we’re all put-off or offended by something or somebody. It’s nature, it’s how things work on a natural level. If you don’t want to smoke marijuana don’t smoke it. But don’t tell others they can’t just because you personally feel they shouldn’t. I am strongly against children and young people indulging but responsible adults have a fundamental,and inalienable right to do so. I would never condone usage in the work place. The same goes for alcohol. Everything has its place.

            Who are you to tell anybody what they can and can’t do in the privacy of their own home.

            Everyone’s intitled to their own opinion. Of course, that could change if people that think like you ever gain control.

            It’s hard to argue viewpoints when one side is closed minded and refuses to acknowlege the facts pertaining to a given subject.

            Lets just give everybody the right to go into each others home and remove everything that they think they shouldn’t have or do. Then we’d all be happy ever after.

            It’s a big world with six billion people. If we all lived according to your belief, we’d be drones.

          • vicki

            If you are not allergic to it you can smoke poison oak and poison ivy as much as you want.

      • Historian

        A real historian? Actually, “dude,” I became a professional (thus, “real”) historian after earning my third graduate degree in the early 1990s and accepting a position in academia. I also hold a degree in Psychopharmacology. Enough about that though; debates should be settled based on the merits of the information presented rather than the credentials of the debaters. Wouldn’t you agree?

        I’ll just touch on some of your points because I’m not sure objective facts hold much weight in your worldview.

        “Illegal is illegal”? I’m not sure what you mean by “illegal” (immoral?) since the possession, cultivation and sale of marijuana (for medical purposes) has been legal in California since 1996. These storefront marijuana businesses pay state and federal taxes, hold business licenses, and solve their conflicts in state courts like all other businesses. The police know of their location and the nature of their wares (like other businesses, they advertise), yet they are allowed to function the same as other businesses. I’d call that “legal.”

        “You say it doesn’t effect anyone or their lives?” Actually, I didn’t say that. Perhaps you’re thinking of someone else’s post. Like video games, masturbation, food, alcohol, etc., people can surely take something, anything too far. The difference is the level of inherent harm involved with an activity (more on this below).

        “THC in the drug does damage the brain and its fuctions after years of heavy use” Well, I’ll disagree with you there, and so will all the studies done over the past 50 years. Please do a Google search on the subject or better yet use your wife’s access as a nurse to search the PubMed database on the toxicity of cannabis and THC. In this age of instant information, there’s no excuse for not being informed. Here’s a sample of what you’ll find in the peer-reviewed literature:

        Heavy Marijuana Use Doesn’t Damage Brain
        webmd. com/mental-health/news/20030701/heavy-marijuana-use-doesnt-damage-brain
        Illegal Herb Not Harmless, but Data Show No Link to Death
        webmd. com/smoking-cessation/news/20030918/marijuana-smoking-doesnt-kill
        Marijuana Unlikely to Cause Head, Neck, or Lung Cancer
        webmd. com/smoking-cessation/news/20000508/marijuana-unlikely-to-cause-cancer
        Active Component In Marijuana Targets Aggressive Brain Cancer Cells, Study Says
        webmd. com/cancer/brain-cancer/news/20090401/marijuana-chemical-may-fight-brain-cancer
        Chemicals in Marijuana May Fight Drug-Resistant Staph Infections
        webmd. com/news/20080904/marijuana-chemicals-may-fight-mrsa

        And if you still need more proof that your statement “THC in the drug does damage the brain and its fuctions after years of heavy use” then check out the product insert on the prescription THC capsules (Marinol) that are available in every American state as a Class III drug (alongside codeine):
        accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2006/018651s025s026lbl.pdf
        You’ll find that it contains no warnings of neurotoxicity or other harm to the patient’s body—even after years of prolonged use.

        In the future, please provide me with some reputable, peer-reviewed studies to back up your points otherwise you’re little better than one who argues that the world is not round because you can look out your window and see a flat horizon. That is, it’s all conjecture and emotion, but little substance.

        • TIME

          Historian, The facts and TRUTH to idiots is like pearls before swine saddly.

          By teh way – Great post and thanks for the links.

    • a progressive nightmare

      I’ll be sure to remind a former employee of mine that smoking dope has no adverse affects on the brain. This particular individual couldn’t remember where he crapped last much less the reguired mastery of the details of his lost job, not to mention his low productivity levels of about 50% of those fellow workers that had a durg-free clear thinking mind.

      You can defend your “Pot god” all you want but it is the single most DANGEROUS DRUG on the planet because it IS the GATEWAY to a drughead life wasted in the mire and the muck of plain stupidity. Brain dead would be an understatement.

      • TIME

        Did you ever stop to think that the average IQ is only 110 and perhaps that your worker may have had a lower IQ than the average?

        I know countless Lawyers, Doc’s let alone high level Business people who smoke pot daily yet they seem to be doing fine making money as a matter of fact many millions of dollars per year.

        Just for the record I smoked years ago then stopped, at that point I went from haveing cutting edge ideas to a total flat line.
        Then while curing my cancer with it I started smoking again, and oddly went into the next level of progression in my business and have made millions on creative ideas that sprung up from my relaxed state of mind.

        Food for thought – in the worst market ever, I just had the third best year I have ever had in 30 years.

        By the way “nothing is addictive,” nor a gateway thats 100% total BS, Its – Called an Addictive personality, its a mental disorder.

        • a progressive nightmare

          Time said: “By the way “nothing is addictive,” nor a gateway thats 100% total BS, Its – Called an Addictive personality, its a mental disorder.”

          Your comments appear to be mutually exclusive and must be the result of YOUR “Mental Disorder”.

          I have spent a lifetime dealing with dope smokers from teenagers to people 50 years aged. The results are the same: lazy, confused, poor health, lack of morals and principles coupled with frequent fits of aggrovated behavior until the addiction is satisfied by the next joint. Sex and food while tip-towing through the tulips appears to be the driving brain function of a doper. That “Mental Disorder” is called the THC drug enduced euphoric mindset that leads most individuals down the road to abstact failure in life. Not only does it have a very negative affect on them but all those around them.

          If you had witnessed the masses of teenagers that I have that are either dead or in jail or pregnant at the age of 13, then you may reconsider your misguided comments. In fact, their is NOTHING positive to be gained with smoking dope….period.

          If you want to understand why our country has gone to hexx in a handbasket then look no further than your THC. It is the driving FACTOR that has morally and ethically BANKRUPT our country. I too have had experiences with several people who used the drug and are “Rich”. Most are crooks who started their businesses with money gained through selling dope to our children and I wouldn’t trust one of them as far as I could spit them.

          • Vigilant

            Thank you for injecting some sanity.

            What kind of mindset is it that will quote you “scientific” studies all day long, but refuses to listen to people like yourself or sook young, who have had many years of actual hands-on experience in dealing with the problem?

          • a progressive nightmare

            Vigilant…..Yep and thank you for the comments. When you get my age and have witnessed the carnage of those left behind due to smoking dope, then that is about as REAL as SCIENCE can get and no amount of “Progressive Politically Motivated JUNK Science” will EVER change that fact.

          • TIME

            No APN the reason our country has gone to the point it has is due to people like you who “can’t see the truth.” So don’t make it up as you go to save face.

            Your to busy being an “Anslinger Marxist Progressive” who can’t grasps the benifits of this earth saving plant. Its people like you is why I fear the wackos on the other side of the line of sanity.

            By the way APN what is it you do for a living that you have so many alledged Pot heads working for you?

            I run a multi faceted business that contracts between large scale investors who outlay millions of dollars daily to acquire talent to invest in.
            We see people smoking joint’s in our offices daily who have more money than most people can even grasp, and yet they seem to be able to invest as well make even more money – you know being so morally bankrupt as you stated I am, just how strange is it that last year we {as in my wife and I} gave $1.3 million to 501C 3′s, I guess that just screams of my poor moral fiber.

            And just how Strange is it that these folks I work with that all smoke who by the way also employ countless numbers of people yet they don’t have criminal record’s, let alone they make money and run business.
            And by the way also give millions to 501 C 3′s every year too.

            I guess your abilitys to see into my mind are strong powers that defy us stupid mindless human’s who smoke and are sucking the system dry, well according to Oh Great Ones like you that is, I mean an Anslinger Marxist Progressive.
            WOW your really a special person. Hey by the way are you also one of the Fake Christians too?

            You have a Great Day now Oh Mind Reading Great One.

            I have to catch a fligh in a few hours I have real work to do, to keep people employed and keep the pay checks flowing.

          • a progressive nightmare

            Time…you seem to be a self-consummed legend in your own mind and I doubt very seriuosly anything you have stated. In fact, your comments mirror those that I have helped get off this very dangerous DRUG. I think you are confusing your GREAT I AM wishes with the reality of the matter. Hopefully your very valuable time wasted on this very serious issue hasn’t cost you any of your very valuable “Riches”.

          • Vigilant

            “just how strange is it that last year we {as in my wife and I} gave $1.3 million to 501C 3′s, I guess that just screams of my poor moral fiber.”

            That doesn’t tell us anything, TIME. What, may I ask, were the non-profits you contributed to?

            Your gratuitous comment about “fake Christians” is deplorable. Period.

          • a progressive nightmare

            TIME said: “WOW your really a special person. Hey by the way are you also one of the Fake Christians too? ”

            Again, your comments seem to be confused and mutually exclusive which is a trait of a chemical dependency, like THC abuse. Fake Christian? Now how could that be? What logical sober thinking mind could make such a foolish statement? Especially a person who asserts such high business skills that produces MILLIONS in profit.

            Either a person is a Christian who believes in Christ Jesus or does not which means they are NOT a Christian. You either ARE or ARE NOT a Christian and FAKE has no relevance. Your MONEY that you seem to worship and hold in such HIGH regard is FAKE paper so does that imply that YOU are a FAKE MONEY LOVER?

            Since you seem to place so much FAITH in your FIAT money and your drugs then lets talk again at the end of 2011 after the FED has completely monetized our DEBT and see how much FIATH you have in your FAKE money then.

          • jimmy joe

            Progressive Nightmare;We Are Arguing With Obsessive Behavior,And Not Rational Thinking,Which All Mind Altering Drugs Obstruct.Only Intervention,And Fear Of One’s Own Survival,Can Change Behavior.Those Who Show their Obsessions Defending Legalizing,Marijuana.Also Show Their Self Serving Addictive Natures For Marijuana.Again Proving They Would Rather,Get Stoned,And Complain About Life,Contributing to Its Worst.Than Contribute to Its Greater Strengths.Life Is All About them,And Their Priorities To Best Feed those Obsessions.Than The Best Interest Of Their Country.

          • Karolyn

            As a person who has worked with alcoholics and drug addicts for many years, I can tell you that there is a difference between the recreational user and the addictive personality who will progress to bigger and “better” drugs. A point was made about the IQ, which does make sense. Socio-economic level also plays a part. A lot more goes into this subject than just that pot leads to other drugs. Non-addictive personality types do not progress – just like a recreational drinker does not necessarily progress into alcoholism. Countries like Holland do not seem to have a drug problem. Everybody there is pretty happy. Man has probably gotten high since the caveman. It cannot be proven, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Mr. Caveman picked a leaf and found it made him feel good, so he kept on eating it. Evidence of Aztec “drug” use has been found. The War on Drugs is a big waste of money and time. If even half of that money was spent on education, we might have less drug addiction and spend less money on incarcerating people for drug use. Pot users certainly do not belong in jail. What a waste!

          • a progressive nightmare

            JJ….VERY well put, and yes, their comments are self-evident and self-serving which further confirms a life of chemical dependency at the expense of future generations. Let’s just all get high and screw and share all our social deseases and the heck with the country and our children’s future. Only a progressive mentality would even ponder leaving such a dismal legacy for those who will follow. Life for them is about the moment, about them and only them no matter the cost or the damage it does to their fellow man. i.e.; lack of basic moral prinicple or compass

          • Karolyn

            Duh, Vigilant, 501(c)(3)s are nonprofit!

          • MR MYTH

            Nightmare

            If you really worked with people with drug problems you wouldn’t be refering to them as “dope smokers” and such. Very unprofessional. Your belittleling the people you’re supposedly treating. By my observation of your viewpoints and level of writing I would place your IQ at about 92. There’s nothing wrong with that, you are who you are, but you are no therapist.

            You’re making absurd statements and ridiculous arguements against known facts stated by obviously well read intelligent people. The more you write the less intelligent you sound.

          • a progressive nightmare

            MM……….Never said I was a therapist or asserted a HI IQ. However, your lack of IQ is self-evident and needs no further comment.

            Who are these “Intelligent” people you speak of? Maybe the same people who claim “Global Warming”?? Who pays these magnificient minds and what political motivations are involved? I guess those are hard questions that a simple mind would never ponder to ask?

            Keep kidding yourself about this POT problem we have in America. Mexico sound familiar? Is that the kind of country you want your children to grow up in? If so, good luck!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            karolyn,
            DUH! He asked WHICH ones he contributed to!! Perhaps the reason you can’t read…………..

          • TIME

            Vigilant,

            A 501 C 3 is always a NOT for PROFIT. And yes you may ask what we give money to as we are very proud of what we do.

            #1, We give to Childrens Special needs units, this is run by our local Medical unit. What they do is provide health care to kids whos parents can’t take off work for their very sick children.
            This has two factors that are really great, one is that the parents don’t use up all their Insurance funds. As well it Brings Doc’s to them so they don’t have to travel and loose work time that may end up in their loosing their jobs.

            #2, We also give to the Gift of Life, this is for heart transplants for people who can’t afford this.

            #3, We give to Big Brothers & Sisters, as well I worked with 4 kids, one who we raised after his mom left him at our door.

            #4, We give to a scholarship fund that aids kids who can’t afford higher education.

            #5, We give to, Arts and Music fund that provides Musical instruments to kids who can’t afford them, as well as aid for their mental heath.

            #6, We also give to NO KILL anmial shelters. We also give of our time to a number of shelters where we work cleaning crap up and helping sick and or beaten anmials that Humans abused.

            As well there are others but that should give you enough intel to grasp the good we do. Thanks for asking.

          • Vigilant

            The very superior Karolyn says:

            “Duh, Vigilant, 501(c)(3)s are nonprofit!”

            Yes, and I was asking him to name the non-profits to which he and his wife contributed.

            A BIG DUH, Karolyn. Read before you shoot at someone.

      • Shibamom

        Geez…are you serious???? I guess it doesn’t matter to you that there is absolutely no scientific proof to the effects, or lack thereof, of weed.

        • a progressive nightmare

          Shibamom…..keep kidding yourself. I see it everyday and I can personally introduce you to 100′s of people who were once dope smokers that were buried in the mire and the muck of addiction to pot, not to mention past behavior problems that will follow them for a lifetime. Teenage girls who by the age of 17 have had 100′s of different sex partners and have about every social desease imaginable and all of which have openly confessed that YOUR sacrid POT was the gateway to their living hell. You think maybe the reason we sober minded people call it “Dope” is because that is exactly what you will become….somebody’s DOPE.

          • Karolyn

            Progressive – You said “Teenage girls who by the age of 17 have had 100′s of different sex partners and have about every social desease imaginable and all of which have openly confessed that YOUR sacrid POT was the gateway to their living hell.” That is such BS. It isn’t the pot; it is the person.

          • a progressive nightmare

            Karolyn…coming from a former pot smoker like yourself, I guess that makes sense to me. I’m sure POT had nothing to do with it. I guess that is the reason these young girls decided to sell their bodies to pay for their next joint. You are a very naive person to be as old as you are.

          • Karolyn

            Progressive – You are so full of it. I’ve known women who sold their bodies for hard drugs, but I have NEVER known or even heard of anyone selling herself for POT.

          • a progressive nightmare

            Karolyn, Then you don’t leave your trailer in the woods and get out very often, do you? You are the type person that believes what is convenient or self-serving. I have had numerous young men tell me that all they needed was a bag of POT and they could have sex with a female before midnight. Those are the cold hard facts that I deal with not your progressive slef-serving fantasy world.

          • Karolyn

            They’re not selling themselves for the pot but for the money it will bring. What kind of people are you hanging around with anyway?

          • a progressive nightmare

            karolyn…..Mostly YOUNG PEOPLE who are at the END OF THEIR DOPE SMOKING LIVES and have no job, NO FAMILY or anyone else that gives a damn ABOUT THEM. Smart kids that took that first innocent little toke of POT and then 10 years later are still lost and have gained nothing in life. Young girls who have to live with the fact that dozens of men have violated their bodies all in the name of getting HIGH. Well, I would suggest that getting high on POT will result in a great fall into the pit of a very pitiful life. Obviously these are REAL people and real consequences that you advocates of dope never ponder or you just do not CARE about our future generations.

          • vicki

            a progressive nightmare: You and Karoline should quite arguing with each other and try reasoned debate. In other discussions I have seen both of you do it so I know you are capable.

            One thing of interest to me as an outside observer is seeing both sides of this debate use the same tactics used to support the socialist policies of the Democrats. With the interesting inversion of who, with people who are staunchly against the socialist policies of the democrats fiercely defending the illegal state of marijuana in spite of multiple facts with cites proving that most of the bad things attributed to marijuana are false. And on the other side we find mostly people who clearly support socialist policies fighting with actual facts against the laws prohibiting a free people from using herbs as they choose.

            Very strange this world of ours.

          • a progressive nightmare

            Vicki….as I have stated numerous times, I base my opinion on FACTS gathered from life’s experiences dealing with potheads for decades. I do not need an “Expert” or “Government paid Scientist”, that are in all probability politically motivated or outcome based motivated, to waste my very valuable time explaining something that I already CLEARY understand.

          • Karolyn

            Progressive, well I can probably top you. I am an addict and alcoholic with 28 years of sobriety, so I’m not without some experience on both sides of the fence. The point I’ve been trying to make is that the law doesn’t stop the addict. The only thing that stops the addict is hitting bottom or death. It is an individual problem that does affect society; however, laws don’t put a dent in the addiction problem. A person has the right to do whatever they want with their body and mind whether anybody likes it or not. Besides being an addict, I have worked with them as a sponsor, lived with them and also worked in a halfway house for women. If you have not been in the position of an addict, there is no way you can truly know what goes on in our heads. Legislation is not the answer. If more money was spent on educating kids how to live life, (since parents so often seem to be failing miserably) there would be less addiction and less of any societal problem.

          • TIME

            APN;
            You sir are one very sick person who should have nothing to do with children at all ever!

            Other than the very shallow thinking displayed by your post over and over again. You have clearly displayed that your mentaly ill, with heavy “Paranoid Delusions” that are so obviously displayed within the confines of your rantings.

            You claim your a “Progressive worst nightmare,”
            No Sir you are just what they are looking for and they could not be more happy to have a total WackO like you post such insane dribble. You just made their case that the good people here have worked very hard to build are amoung total WACK JOBS. You go pat yourself on the back for doing such a great job of showing just how bloody nuts you are as you just sullied everyone else here.

            You claim you love Freedom? Really on what level? When it suits you?
            Freedom means just that, FREEDOM. Not a pick and choose factor when it makes you happy and what suits you.

            You claim you empoly people, hell would freeze over before anyone with a brain would ever work for someone as bent as you are.
            Let me say this again YOUR clearly MENTALY ILL!

            Everyone can have an opinion thats a given, but it must be bound in some form of sanity, you are totaly insane, as well as abusive and ill mannered as well a complete and total SOCIOPATH.

            I will pary that God Have mercy on your soul.
            By reading your post only one name comes to mind, John Wanyne Gacy

          • a progressive nightmare

            Time….Must have touched a nerve? Now why don’t you tell me how you really feel? Keep worshipping and smoking your POT god, and be sure to make it up with all your “Community Services”. You are a FAKE buddy and I see your type every day. Get your head sober and try getting yourself educated so you can clearly see the rampant drup problem we have in America. Misinformed would be a major understatement. Good day all omnipotent one.

          • Vigilant

            APN,

            What I’ve seen so far from the proponents of further unravelling the fiber of society comes as no surprise to me.

            First, I see those who take Big Pharma to task every day for funding so-called “independent” studies that serve only to legitimize and paint their products in good light. Those same folks then show their naiivete by falling hook, line and sinker for the “scientific” marijuana studies, most of which are conducted with the conclusion already written before the “research” is conducted (much like the global warming “research”).

            Secondly, and this is related to the first, the left continually sets up an alternate reality based solely on the written word (an accusation they love to hurl at the Fundamentalist Christians), without ever appealing to experience in the real world. They have no qualms in pooh-poohing the words of someone such as yourself, who has spent time “in the trenches” and who can offer valuable insight into the real problems caused by and/or associated with marijuana use.

            Thirdly, they set up an obvious smoke screen to attempt to divert attention and/or to snatch at anything that will rationalize their predilection. They can’t see that we’re on to their obfuscation, they think we don’t see through the “medical marijuana” argument as a ploy to open the door for recreational use accross the board (re: the CA Med. marijuana front, and that’s all it is, a front).

            How often do they come clean and just Hedonistically tell us, “I think marijuana should be legalized because it gives me a high, and I don’t think I’m doing any harm to anyone.” No, these are the same people who disparage lawyers for the same sophistry and rationalization of which they are guilty.

            APN, keep up your good works and your sane, rational approach to the issue.

          • a progressive nightmare

            Vigilant…..WOW, VERY well put! Same here and let us all endeavor to persevere. Thank you for the encouraging words and I will share your wisdom with those who seek my help to regain control over their broken lives.

      • Ellen

        Was he partaking on the job? If so, that was stupid and this individual didn’t have the brains to do the job anyway. Let’s face it, some people (actually a lot of people) can’t think properly for themselves. I blame a lot of that on the poisonous water fluoridation. Man, if you want a cause to champion, WATER FLUORIDATION IS THE ONE. This is an abominable practice that is destroying us very handily.

        • a progressive nightmare

          I would suggest that the primary reason “People can’t THINK for themselves” is because that is what we DO NOT teach them to do anymore. I was taught to QUESTION everything and compare what someone says to their actions. To analyze, research and VERIFY what those who taught me were either FACTS or simple minded OPINIONS or some foolish progressive PC balony like “Global Warming”.

          When we get back to the basics of educating our children to THINK for themselves instead of some misguided “What ever makes you feel good” mentality, like dope smoking, then and only then will we see some positive results in our education system and our resulting “THINKING” capacity. One thing is for certain, THC is NOT an aid to LOGICAL THINKING.

          • Vigilant

            Ellen was doing half way (only half way) OK until she revealed herself as a flouridation conspiracy theorist. Consider the source.

          • TIME

            APN
            So have you complained to the school’s about the Legal drugs they are pushing on our children?
            No – you have not, and why is that, you are 100% clueless.

          • a progressive nightmare

            Time says APN is clueless…..Coming from a self-confessed Pot Head, I guess that makes sense to me.

        • Dr. Mabuse

          Let’s not be too hard on Ellen.
          She has a point about the negative effects of floride in the water supply. I won’t bore you with a bunch of details and facts, but I will ask you to look at the Nazis use of floride in the concentration camps and the use of floride in our own prison system as a means to pacify convicts.

          • Vigilant

            Uh, excuse me. I think the concentrations were/are slightly different.

            Are you an MD?

          • http://none Mike

            Dr,That reply from vigilant shows he dosent understand the fact that floride isnt processed as fast as most chemicals through our bloodstream. If you drink alot of water in a day like I used to you can get a high concentration of floride in your system. That is the main reason I switched to a good filter and bottled water when out fishing :)Even with bottled water you can still get floride but at a much lower concentration. Mike L.

          • Vigilant

            From The Fluoridation “Conspiracy”

            By Michael D. Shaw

            That fluoride occurs naturally in the water at varying levels around the country, including concentrations much higher than 1 ppm, has made it easy to look for negative effects on a grand scale. Studies have been run comparing rates for cancer, heart disease, birth defects, and allergies in regions with high, medium, and low concentrations of fluoride. The results are always the same: The sole adverse effect is staining of the teeth, when the fluoride concentration is much higher than 1 ppm. Recent data indicates that fluoridation reduces the incidence of cavities 20% to 40% in children and 15% to 35% in adults.

            The usage of flouride to make POWs docile did indeed happen but, good “doctor,” what were the concentrations used? Until you answer that, we have no basis for argument.

            Again, what are your qualifications to put “Dr.” before your name?

          • http://none Mike

            Viglent, Yes floride occurs naturally in water.But when we add to that fact that we are dumping tons more of it in our municple water supplies every day it can and will have detrimental effects. And yes it benifits our teeth but its deadly when concentrated in our brains. A good simple example of this is alchol in low doses and used only occasionally its good for our kidnys and bladders. But used in large quantities its death to our livers and brains. So before you jump in and call someone crazy for their opinion do a little research yourself. Mike L.

    • Richard Pawley

      Can’t say to much on this as I have been out of the loop on recent studies but I recall when I spent two years studying the avoidable causes of cancer I came across a study in Switzerland more than 30 years ago that showed that smoking marijuana did FIVE TIMES MORE DAMAGE TO THE LUNGS THAN SMOKING CIGARETTES. I use neither but in my youth tried them both. My uncle who died from smoking cigarettes (doctors used to advertise them and say they were good for you too) gave me my first cigarette when I was five. After nearly choking I didn’t try another until I was 14, fortunately with the same results. My dad smoked half a pack a day but quit when the first studies came out in the early 50′s showing that the DEATH RATE was 50% higher among those who smoked cigarettes. He only smoked half a pack and being around him for the first three weeks after he quit was hard on us, but I’m sure it was harder on him. He is not doing so well these days, but he is 97 and his illness has nothing to do with smoking. I had a friend who only smoked for two years while she was in college and then quit but over a dozen years later got lung cancer, and though she had the best treatment available at a world famous clinic in five years, at 40, she was dead, leaving behind a ten year old daughter and an 8 year old son. While I certainly feel that those who are dying or in terrible pain that expensive conventional drugs cannot help should have access to medical marijuana I do not feel that making it available to all will lead to anything good. However, putting it legally on a par with alcohol as far as drunk driving and such as far as fines and jail would likely reduce our jail population which is the largest in the world and free law enforcement to concentrate on serious crime, such as the fact that there have been over ONE MILLION SEX CRIMES IN THIS NATION PERPERTRATED BY ILLEGAL ALIENS and that many more Americans have been killed by illegal aliens over the years than were killed by the Muslim terrorists on 9/11. Oh, I know, it’s not politically correct to say that, but it is the truth!

      • MR MYTH

        You’re missing one of the points. It’s already available to all. And always will be.

  • Impartial Observer

    In the days of prohibition there were those who opposed re legalalisation because “it was illegal”. The whole world is slowly moving to decriminalising this plant because it has been shown that this is not the drug that criminals kill for…the kill, steal, etc, for physically addictive drugs such as cocaine, heroin, etc, not weed. But people start doing these addictive heavy drigs because when they go to the illegal dealer to buy their weed they are offered other more potent drugs. Some try them and from there it’s a quick and ugly descent to hell…because weed is illegal!!

  • http://http/aol.com john littlefield

    how could anyone stand the smell.

  • Al Sieber

    First of all drug and alcohol abuse is a social and medical problem, and people should be treated for abuse, not imprisoned. this is a great win for the drug cartels, smugglers, etc. and the Fed.Govt., prison system etc. drugs will continue to pour over over borders, more private prisons will be built, more people incarcerated. theres more people in prison in the USA then any other country and if George Washington were alive he’d be in prison for smoking it.

    • vicki

      And remember with RICO laws the government gets to confiscate all that property as long as marijuana remains illegal.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Al,
      You know I’m not a progressive liberal. You were screaming the other night about what the illegals cost us in medical costs yet just now talk about how drug abusers should be treated with treatment instead of imprisonment. Who do you think will foot the bill for that?? Dr.s cost a hell of a lot more than guards, bud!!

      • Al Sieber

        Joe H, they been treating people for drug abuse(Heroin) in Lexington, Kentucky since the 1930′s, with probably one doctor and a bunch of orderlies which is comparable in price to one prison warden and a bunch of guards. people don’t need to go to prison for drug use, they need to be educated.

        • Karolyn

          ABSOLUTELY!!! You put a pot-smoker in jail with a bunch of hardened thugs and he ends up worse than when he started.

  • wisdom

    How many people make money off of pot? The point is the majority believe in its use, some just didn’t vote for it. And if you believe the tax revenue wouldn’t amount to much I have a well irrigated piece of property right next to a swamp that I’ll sell ya at a real good price.

    • Richard Pawley

      I’ve always suspected that someone high up gets a healthy cut of the profit from illegal drugs flowing into this country or we would have long ago stopped it. We send soldiers all over the world to fix other situations but can’t fix our own? It’s like illegal immigration. The Establishment Democrats want it for the votes and the Establishment Republicans want it for the cheap labor, and congress (small “c” is intentional) does nothing to stop it. Only a truly bad economy, which is coming, can stop the millions more who are planning to come here. Congress is not supposed to be a social club. We have made a good beginning last week of replacing these “good ole’ boys and girls” but the job will not be completed until many more of them are replaced. We need common sense approaches, not the legalese of hot-shot lawyers with no experience outside case books.

  • wisdom

    Also, if we were to outlaw everything related to hemp we would have to throw out The Constitution and The Bill of Rights as they were written on it.

  • Impartial Observer

    It smells bad but so does whisky, and beer and wine…depending on your tastes.

    As for the guy that comes to work stoned, fire him. Wouldn’t you fire him if he came to work drunk? This is a recreational drug, if not used for medicinal purposes, it has no place in the workplace.

    • Disgusted

      I agree. MaryJane should only be used recreationally. If it was legalized I think we would see a decrease in the amount of people saying it is a transition drug. I agree with earlier posts that people will report MJ is where they started, but moved on to stronger things – however the stronger drugs were probably offered by the dealter that is necessary because it is illegal. Of course the dealer is going to offer a more expensive – more addictive drug to their customers! No matter what we do there will always be those that seek a stronger drug / a higher high, but if they are not in direct contact with a person that can provide that opportunity I think the instances will decrease.

      • vicki

        Disgusted writes:
        “Of course the dealer is going to offer a more expensive – more addictive drug to their customers!”

        Of course they will. Thats good business. And like it or not drug selling IS a business.

        ” No matter what we do there will always be those that seek a stronger drug / a higher high, but if they are not in direct contact with a person that can provide that opportunity I think the instances will decrease.”

        True and pretty self evident. But a lot of folk will not believe.

        • http://none Mike

          Vicki , I am amazed at the amount of stupid people that are out there now. It takes someone who has no appreation of life whatsoever to use some of these harder drugs that are out there now. One good example is Meth.Do people not understand that the high that they are reciveing from that drug is their nervous system dying? Meth is made from a chemical in roundup that kills weeds by attacking its nervous system.The side effects of which in humans is uncontrolable twitching as the nerves begin to overfire. And I wonder if anyone outthere watched the discovery channels special on paint huffing. The catscans that showed the dead areas in the brain behind the sinus cavities.But the point being is these are all chemicals not a natural herb how that MJ can be classified in the same catagory of drugs as these as well as cocain is beyond me.And as far as being a gateway drug I think Alchol is a much worse gateway drug than MJ could ever be. Many of the people I know that drink are either dead from accidents or liver and heart problems brought on by the abuse of alchol. So next time some of you guys go out and grab yourself your favorite beer and get ripped. Think about the damage you are doing to your body with chemicals(alchol kills braincells at a bac of 1.0 )And leave people alone that can have a bag of weed a month and be happy. They are all drugs of CHOICE many are just deadlier than others. Mike L.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Mike
            tobacco is a natural herb as well, look at what it does to the body!!

          • http://naver samurai

            What part of illegal don’t these people understand? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Al Sieber

            Joe H, tobacco didn’t use to have over 200 additives either.

          • http://none Mike

            Samuri, We understand its illeagle . But some of us just dont understand why it is. I doubt you would be so complacent when it comes to the gun or the bible(both of which I defend)I am sorry but we have been conditioned for years just to accept its bad because the goverment tells us it is(innatiment object). The same campaigen is going on right now against guns and the bible. You know us crazy clingers. So I will defend your right to bear arms but try to understand my point as well. That if its done in one field sucessfully it will be tried in others too. Mike L.

          • http://none Mike

            Joe, My grandfather smoked up untill he was 70 and died in a car wreck. Upon his autopise it was found he had the lungs of a 40 year old ! You know why? He raised his own tobacco and smoked it in a pipe or hand made cigar. His quote to me a year before he died was this. Its not the tobacco that kills you its what they put in it,Wisdom of the old my friend. Mike L.

          • Karolyn

            Joe H. – It doesn’t matter how bad something is for you, it is your body. You argue about government control of everything else being bad. Why do you think government laws about pot are OK? It is taking away a freedom.

          • Vicki

            Karolyn writes:
            “Joe H. – It doesn’t matter how bad something is for you, it is your body. You argue about government control of everything else being bad. Why do you think government laws about pot are OK? It is taking away a freedom.”

            This is one of the things that has always confused me about many people who clame to be freedom loving. They get brainwashed into thinking drugs are bad in EXACTLY the same way that liberals are brainwashed into thinking GUNS are bad.

            Both are dangerous tools and if mis-used can cause significant harm.

            Guns are bad cause they cause crime (not true but that is the brainwashing
            Drugs are bad cause they cause crime (not ture but that is the brainwashing

            Guns can not be allowed because they are dangerous and should only be handled by experts if at all
            Drugs can not be allowed because they are dangerous and should only be handled by experts if at all.

            I could go on but I think you see the point.

            Now for those who yell “BUT The Bill Of Rights….” I would draw your attention to Amendment 9 of said list of Rights.

          • Vicki

            One other detail that tends to show the effects of brainwashing

            All of you who say you are Conservatives who are so obviously emotional about marijuana, please take a deep breath and think about how obviously emotional liberals are about guns.

  • Bob Wire

    Well, hmm, ~ I never touched the stuff in Nam. ~ I wanted to get back home in one piece and didn’t see the benefits it might offer.

    Of course when I did return, ~ everyone seem to be smoking the stuff. As a law enforcement officer, I again refrained from it’s attraction, finding it inappropriate and conflicting with my position and station in life.

    It was much later, I too engaged in the act of defiance. ~ Much like all other drug experiences, you keep returning to enjoy that first high, but it never comes and becomes an endless search.

    I’d discourage anyone from getting started as it goes no where of great importance.

    If there be documented therapeutic value to it , so be it ~ consideration should be taken in account.

    My experience is , people are dumb enough and really don’t need help in being stupid. Alcohol is little different with the exception the body grows accustom to “high grade” fuel and quits desiring to process food making it a major health hazard, much worse the weed.

  • Charles

    I do not use the stuff and never have and never will (or any other currently illegal drugs, for that matter) but I am in favor of drug legalization because all prohibition does is makes the criminals rich and corrupts our law enforcement system (by means of asset forfeitures).

    • http://www.chartimages.info Bud Wood

      You’re very correct, Charles. Like you, I’ll never even try the stuff. And for that matter, don’t like alcohol and tobacco (my choice). However, as you say, probition only benefits people in drug sales and drug use prevention businesses. Also, if alcohol were to again be prohibited, we would see a large “industry” arise to satisfy that craving. Seems that the USA government has a knack of continually doing counter productive things.

    • vicki

      Just so you know there are at least 3 of us here who have never used drugs. And I don’t drink nor smoke. Not even tobacco. :)

  • Warrior

    Here’s what I don’t get. Voters in Calif can just say No to drugs, but they can’t say No to Pelosi, Boxer, Brown? I heard this morning that the Feds are shoveling money into Calif at the rate of $40 mil/day to help them pay for unemployment. That place is in a death spiral!

    • a progressive nightmare

      Yep, welcome to the world of the progressive THC dope smoking cult and the reason the measure to legalize pot was defeated is because the dope smokers are to lazy or to stupid to vote.

      • a progressive nightmare

        ….and…. we need to cut off these lazy progressive pot heads in California and give them a pathway to bankruptcy. They made their bed so let them sleep in it. That is the ONLY way these people will ever learn that life is not FREE at the cost of those who are sober and work for a living.

        • vicki

          And please do cut off funding all these welfare cases.

      • vicki

        Hey. Good point. We should get marijuana legal in both the left and right coasts (preferably high democrat concentrations) so they will all get too stoned to care about voting. :)

        (No it won’t really work but it was an amusing thought)

      • http://?? Joe H.

        APN,
        My wife said it’s a good thing they didn’t offer snacks at the polls in California or we wouldn’t be having this discussion!!!

        • a progressive nightmare

          LMAO!!!

    • Richard Pawley

      Yes, and the result of that is going to be food and fuel and all imported goods tripling in price. Our own government is killing the value of the dollar and as I pointed out in one of my books, how much are we going to be loved, if we take the whole world down with us. China and Germany were both complaining a couple of days ago about what we are doing with the dollar. Why do they care? Because we conned them into taking so many of them. In both my books I said we are following the path of disintegration that Rome took. Sometimes it is frustrating to see so clearly and to realize that most do not see, and to realize that little is changing. OK, we have some new faces coming to congress (small ‘c’ intentional) but can they stand up against all the old time establishment, the bought and paid for politicians who have been there for decades? I certainly hope so. I can see why so many thousands have gotten frustrated and leave the country each month, like the doctors who plan to do so before the “health care reform” bill takes over. But where can one go that is better? We have got to stop the insane spending and the out of control growth of government or we are all going to be broke and hungry, and there will be to little government left to do anybody any good. The recent announcement that the Treasury and the FED are going to just print 75 thousand million dollars each month for the next six months is likely to do what they want, create inflation so all their derivatives which I talked about in both books, will be profitable. They really don’t seem to care if they destroy the economy of the world because they have a plan for a new world banking system and a new world currency. Go back to the first sentence to see how you can prepare for what they are doing. Most expect at least 20% inflation next year because of all the money they are creating out of thin air.

      • a progressive nightmare

        I agree totally and I would suggest that food items could potentially quadruple in price in 2011. Pay day is about to come to bear on ALL of us for a century of progressive foolishness.

  • Jack

    the drug companies,cops,drug task forces,prison guards are the opponents of legalization,why? because these people make millions off of arresting and jailing smokers. cannabis is an herb , not a drug. been used for thousands of years. many beneficial uses for cannabis,cancer,glaucoma,and the list goes on. doctors addict patients to many destructive drugs for profit and no one says anything. smoke a blunt and your a criminal. Its ludicrous and nonsensical. I am 66 years old and have smoked since i was 20. went to electronics school and two colleges. quit cigarettes and alchohol using cannabis as a crutch to get me through withdrawal. amazing plant. drug companies dont like it because you can grow your own. they cant addict you and issue prescriptions at huge profit margins.

    • Shibamom

      I hear ya Jack!!!

    • http://none Mike

      Amen Jack,The pharmasuiticals out there are far more dangerous than MJ could ever be. But MJ isnt profitable for them so untill we get the fda out of the drug trade its not going to change. I can tell you from experiance just how destructive pharmas are I had a bad accident when I was around 23(work related safe fell on me)I was put on hydrocodone 20 millagrams and soma 10 milligrams for almost a year . I took these 2 in combanation and when it was time for me to quit takeing them there was an extream withdrawel problem for me. So what did my doctor do he puts me on 5 millagram valium (generic)To help me with the withdrawel from the Hydro and Soma. Then about a month in I started reading about the addictive properties of valium and decided to try to self medicate off of all these pharmas. I used a combanation of MJ and a strict vitiman regiment for about 2 years and finally cleaned out all the other drugs I quit useing the MJ and stayed on the vitimin regiment and have now been pain free for 14 years. Although I have developed arthritis in my hip and lower back from the injuries I recived. Mike L.

  • Vigilant

    Anyone here ever read Aldous Huxley’s “Brave New World?”

    Most interesting that legalization of pot is the baby of the left wingers in CA (“This is the first time major elected officials and labor unions and civil rights organizations have endorsed a marijuana legalization measure”).

    Draw your own conclusions.

  • Bob Wire

    That about what I figured , we’ve got a bunch of rug burners here.

    Yea, I’m working on my second million, given up on my first.

    It must affect different people different ways. People that’s wound up tight and have difficulty coping with day to day issues enjoy a benefit as it’s calming and requires no script.

    But where that goes or leads to is anyone’s guess. Wherever the individual wants to go is my guess.

    I’d not say it harmless ~ I’d not offer it a crime against man or God.

    But I’d encourage anyone to avoid body art, as it’s only self gratifying, an indulgence into self and at days end will only come back and haunt you.

    So who am I? a liberal? and progressive or a conservative?

    • Warrior

      Can I have a Happy Meal now?

      • Bob Wire

        No, not until you’ve washed your hands.

        • Warrior

          OK.

        • TIME

          Bob, I just LMAO.. Too Funny!!! :-)

    • http://none Mike

      Bob, A realist lol although I would say with libritarin leanings. Mike L.

  • Ellen

    I still can’t understand where the authority comes from by ANYONE to ban this or any other thing. Seems to me that the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights are very clear about one’s right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Using marijuana does not interest me but good grief, this substance has much to offer medicinally and alcohol, “legalized” (again, what part of the above rights enumerated do people NOT understand?), causes much mayhem, death, disease, and illness.

    When will we get the hell out of other people’s business and mind our own, I wonder? We just can’t seem to help ourselves from legislating others……Last I knew, my body is MY OWN and what I choose to do with it is up to me as long as I don’t hurt others.

    • Vigilant

      “I still can’t understand where the authority comes from by ANYONE to ban this or any other thing.”

      It’s called “the legislative process.” As with any law, the mechanisms are provided by the Constitution to change it if you don’t like it.

      Or would you prefer some form of anarchy where anyone can do what they want without fear of legal reprisal? That’s a kind of life that Hobbes called “nasty, brutish and short.”

    • vicki

      Ellen:

      For a truly free people the possession of ANYTHING that they worked for, grew, created can NOT be illegal. It is truly sad that so few conservatives here seem to see that and are quite willing to allow the government to tell us that we can’t possess marijuana.

      I wonder if they would change their minds when the government tells us we can’t have vitamin supplements. Or guns. Just sayin.

      • Karolyn

        We really do have to keep an eye on the supplement situation. The EU has made many natural remedies only available through prescription, thereby closing small business and streaming the money into the pockets of the bigger companies and doctors. Some are saying it might happen here. That is one thing I will fight for tooth and nail when it comes down to it.

      • Vigilant

        vicki,

        “For a truly free people the possession of ANYTHING that they worked for, grew, created can NOT be illegal. It is truly sad that so few conservatives here seem to see that and are quite willing to allow the government to tell us that we can’t possess marijuana.”

        You either believe in the Constitutional rule of law or you don’t. Conservatives respect it, apparently you don’t. The singularly egotistic idea that ANYTHING you do or produce can not be illegal is the 60s flower child expression of “if it feels good, do it.”

        Illicit designer drug labs produce dangerously addictive substances, and under your view of freedom, it should be legal because someone worked for, produced it. There’s a reason we have laws; and you are not advocating libertarianism, you advocate anarchy. Wake up.

        Was it the government or “the will of the people” who voted down the proposition on Nov 2? Does the will of the majority only count when government defies it, and not count when it opposes something you want?

        • vicki

          Vigilant writes:
          “You either believe in the Constitutional rule of law or you don’t. Conservatives respect it, apparently you don’t.”

          I just re read the Constitution from cover to cover and I STILL did not find anywhere that the Federal Government was granted the power to tell me I could or could not grow a plant and or consume it.

          And in spite of that you dare to accuse me of not respecting the concept of Constitutional rule of law?

          Well at least you can take solace that I will still stand with you when the FedGov tries to make taking vitamins illegal. I was raised to do what is right because it is right not because of some reward.

  • Vigilant

    The long list of rationalizations for legalizing pot are simply that: rationalizations.

    It would be nice just once to hear some honesty from people, and to hear them say, “I like it because it feels good.”

    I have no problem with legitimate medical use of it, where the evidence is clear that it can alleviate some medical conditions, but in CA all you need is a hangnail or a headache to get it: it’s a travesty.

    For years I’ve heard the “it’s no worse than (pick your vice)” argument, and that argument carries no water.

    I’m fearful and totally disgusted with people texting while driving (3 times more likely than a drunk driver to have an accident). Drunk drivers certainly contribute their share to highway deaths, as do the cell phone users, so why would we want to increase the highway death toll by adding thousands of de facto “drunks” to the mix?

    Try to tell a husband after his wife and kids are killed in an auto accident because the other driver was high on pot that it’s a victimless crime.

    Do you want the air traffic controller or the pilot of your plane either drunk or high on marijuana? Want your Congressman or judges making legislative decisions? How about the crane operator or the doctor/nurse administering dosages while you’re in the hospital?

    • http://www.chartimages.info Bud Wood

      No, I don’t want the air traffic controller, pilot, legislator, etc., high on pot, alcohol, texting, cell phone use, etc. However, you’re not talking about pot; you’re talking about personal responsibility.

      • Vigilant

        Yes Bud, but human nature is human nature. I say again, why would we want to add to our problems?

        I can offer no immediate proof, but I would be willing to bet a year of my Social Security checks that legalization would increase the number of highway and other deaths related to pot smoking. Do you imagine it would decrease or remain the same?

        For my money, all those in the above categories of abusers ahould be more harshly dealt with than they are. MADD has been successful to some extent in reducing drunk driving incidents because they were instrumental in the passage of more Draconian laws.

        Texters, more dangerous than drunk drivers, should have their vehicle impounded and their licenses suspended or revoked for engaging in such socially jeopardous behavior. I watch those idiots every day on cell phones while driving, knowing that if they are caught on a “sweep,” they will merely pay a fine and go right back to violating the law.

        Keeping pot illegal reduces the chances of such abuse.

      • a progressive nightmare

        Bud…..Well, do you consider people who willingly drug their brains with THC to be responsible people? Would you willingly allow a person who smokes dope to babysit your children or manage your business? Would you trust a man that smokes dope to be alone with your wife or would your consider that person to be dangerous? I have a personal experience with many who have smoked POT and they will opening tell you that when HIGH ON POT their was absolutely NOTHING that they feared or would not try….i.e.; GATEWAY to BAD BEHAVIOR and POOR JUDGEMENT resulting in personal injury or worse.

        I think the point here is that there is NOTHING positive to be gained with legalizing pot and to do so will only INCREASE the amount of people who would use the drug. It basically legitimizes drug use.

        Maybe EDUCATING our children on the FACTS of the adverse affects of drug use is the answer? Maybe having old farts like me come in talk about example after example of the negative consequences POT will have on a person’s life may help a bit. Or maybe having a few of those I have helped get off the drug stand up and state VERY clearly how a “Simple Drug”, like pot, basically ruined any chance in life they may have had at making a difference in this world.

        Bottom line, personal responsibility has to be taught at a VERY young age and it will require the combined efforts of both parents and teachers, with a SOBER mind, to get us passed this continual nightmare of the 60′s progressive dope smoking woodstock era.

        • 45caliber

          Good comments and good advice. Let’s hope someone listens.

        • jimmy joe

          Teach the children in the way they should go,And they will not depart from It.It Is Because We Let Drug,Sex,And Rock&Roll,Marxist Communist,Socialist,Pedophile,Liberal Indoctrination centers,Media,And Their Court Jester Entertainers Teach,Our Children,And Not Good Parenting Skills,Based On Truth,Equality, Justice Character,Honor,Courage,Self,Reliance,And Personal Responsibility,According to Natures Law,And Natures God,That Endowed to Us these things,To Pass On,To Future Generations.

          • a progressive nightmare

            I agree!

    • Bob Wire

      I sure don’t!

      • jimmy joe

        Well Then.Would You Mind Wearing A sign That Says Danger,Keep Away From Children.Or Maybe you Also Believe Like Barack Obama In His Own Words,He Would Like To See For Some Senior Citizens,And Or The Mentally,Or Physically Dis-Abled,To Just Take A Pill,And Die,For The Good Of the Collective(POPULATION EXPLOSION)And To Relieve The Financial Burden Of Family.Using Guilt By Government Bureaucrats.To Commit Genocide,And Promote Suicide.Like Kathleen(JEFFERY DAHMER)Sebellius.And Hillary(NO PARENTAL RIGHTS)Clinton.Both Have The Same Obsessions With Others Peoples Children,That Bill Clinton,And Ted Kennedy’s Obsessions With Other Peoples Women.

  • 45caliber

    It is nice to see that even in California there are some people who use a little common sense.

    I have no problem using derivatives of this as medication but I’ve seen the affects of too much drugs on people. Anything that causes affects like that shouldn’t be open to the youth to use as they like.

    • vicki

      And had prop 19 passed it would not be available to the youth. Same as alcohol you had to be 21 to purchase.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        vicki,
        yet each year the number of teenage alcoholics rises!!! They’re not 21, how could that be???

        • vicki

          The same way it was in prohibition. If you wanted alcohol you got it. The same way it is now for marijuana. If you want it age is no barrier.

  • http://com i41

    Why cann’t everyone have a still, making a little white lighting, you can drive it or drink it, not both. The resonse of it is just a herb, yes and so it death camis, milkweed,and erget barley or wheat, all natural. Usually most pot heads are into organic foods, the pesticides and herbaicides are just “herbs” harvested for chemicals. I just had a relative die of liver cancer, he was a daily pot smoker since in high school. He was self employeed so never had to worry about drug test. Pot has some toxions that are way more harmful to your system than a cigerette. As research keeps coming in pot has longer lasting bad effects than a cig. Pot stays in your body tissue and cancers is one of the effects. So the positive effect we all have more SS to spend from the early die offs.

    • 45caliber

      When I was in the Army, we has some pot-heads in our unit. A couple were really bad. It affects their ability to make decisions and to handle problems that might come up. I’ve seen them break down and cry because of some little decision that really wasn’t a problem at all. So I don’t believe the ones who insist MJ is harmless.

  • duane

    marijuana cuts lung cancer tumor in half,study shows by researchers at harvard university

    • jimmy joe

      Do You Mean Genocidal Murdering Chairman Mao Inspired Harvard University?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        jimmy joe,
        Nah, the Hahvahd that won’t release the records of a certain drug selling almost professor!!! Guess who? his name starts with Nobama!!

  • DaveH

    Even if the anti-pot people are right, the laws are futile. They are stopping nothing, wasting our financial resources, and are being used as an excuse for gestapo-like raids on sometimes completely innocent people. Of course the Big Government leaders promote prohibition. They derive great power from it, at our expense.
    By the way, I do no drugs, not even alcohol or aspirin, Sook. I am just tired of being caught in the middle between the right-wingers and the left-wingers. I want our Freedom back.
    Stay out of my wallet. Stay out of my personal choices.

    • DaveH

      I will take druggies anyday over this kind of Evil insanity:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNZNtlgqfq4

      • Karolyn

        That is sick!! They’d probably do something like that where I live in rural SC. As a matte of fact, they probably have, from the stories I’ve heard. I too would rather associate with the druggies than these sick creeps. The power-hungry cops don’t give a crap as long as they “get their man” even if it’s only for a small amount of drugs.

        • a progressive nightmare

          Karolyn….. The “Power hungry COPS”, as you put it, are doing THEIR job and that is to protect us from people who DO NOT obey OUR laws. If you like a law, then get the Law changed but don’t blame the fine men and women who protect and serve us.

          • Karolyn

            Did you watch the video? Was all of that necessary to arrest one man with his wife and child in the house? They didn’t have to shoot the dog. All it was doing was barking. I don’t know about where you live, but here the cops do whatever they want if they don’t like you, including arresting a woman who was just raped and beaten by her husband because he was dealing pot. Is that right? I’m not saying all cops are bad, but many of them sure have big egos and love to throw their weight around.

        • a progressive nightmare

          Karolyn….Your problem seems to be with any type authority. I see this all the time with the pot smoking crowd. Problem is, you create problems for others and then you complain about it? How convenient! You live and exist at the expense of others….how convenient!

          Example: You owned and operated an antique business in PA that went bankrupt but you end up in SC on welfare? How convenient! When you people start taking repsonsibility for YOUR drug habits then we can have an open and honest discussion about legalizing it. Until that happens, and since I am one of the many who suffers financially from other folks BAD and irresponsible drug behavior, then, I don’t think so.

          I DO NOT enjoy doing the right things and being responsible for my actions only to be penalized for others folks foolishness. When this country finally GROWS UP and understands that people must be held accountable for BAD behavior, then, nothing will change. It’s time to put the touchy-feely foolish progressive mentality behind us and get about the business of repsonsible behavior and I do not think smoking POT will produce those desired results.

          • DaveH

            I do the right things also, Nightmare. But I have to put up with gestapo tactics enabled by the do-gooders like yourself. I have to put up with suspension of my fourth-amendment rights. I have to put up with drug lords and gangs enabled by your control fetish. Without the control of the blind right-wingers, the price of drugs would plummet and with them most of the drug-related crimes which happen because the high prices of drugs drive the junkies to commit them to support their habits. The control freaks in our society pass the laws of unintended consequences and the worst segment in society gets enriched – the drug lords. And money is power. Thanks.
            We can see Mexico, our neighbor, getting ravaged by the fruits of your folly. Have the drug wars been successful? No. But they have been successful in allowing Big Government to grow larger and ignore certain Constitutional rights.
            I was in high school in the sixties before the drug wars started and most of my friends and classmates were oblivious to drugs. Thanks to your fellow control freaks, they were given free publicity and people that never before even thought of doing drugs started experimenting.
            The “authorities” handed the teenagers a whole new toy with which to flaunt them.
            Did you even read about Portugal? There were all the same apocolyptic warnings there when legalization was being considered. It didn’t pan out. Given the choice in polls to go back to prohibition, the majority of Portuguese choose not to.

          • a progressive nightmare

            Daveh….and you are not a do-gooder yourself? You stated that you do the right things so are you a do-right-thinger? What is the difference? And on who’s measure is the right things to do, yours or do you get that behavior from a higher being? Just curious?

            Who said I personally supported the suspension of you fourth amendment rights? You assume much but understand very little.

            My control fetish? Without the control of drugs, a very dangerous substance, that would make YOUR world better? All the drug lords would magically dissapear? Your kidding, correct? You also ASSUME that cheaper drugs would mean less usage or less crime? I’m sure if we put our trusted government with an 11% approval rating in charge of drug dealing, then that would magically fix the problem.

            Control freaks passing laws of unintended consequences? So let me see if I understand this concept of yours. Let’s legalize drugs so they can be available to all at a much cheaper price and the drug lord will no longer get enriched? Then I assume that the local LEGAL market drug dealer will get enriched? Or do you assume this harmful substance will no lonber be a DRUG once legalized therefore we can call them happy stuff-legal dealers. That sounds logical to me!

            Matter of fact, let’s place a HUGE consuption tax on the product so that will encourage the tax and spend liberals to promote drug usage in our schools! The more DOPE we smoke the more tax revenue it produce for those VERY TRUSTWORTHY folks in Washington. Well, wait a minute, that want work because then DRUGS will no longer be cheap, correct? The heck with our kids as long as it is legal and the RIGHT people get enriched, correct? Maybe your libertarian friends in congress or do you have someone else in mind? Thanks!

            Mexico getting ravaged by the fruits of MY folly? Well, I didn’t know I had that much control over the folks in the backward country of Mexico. Let’s see, I placed controls on DRUGS and Mexico has suffered from all their THUG drug dealing. Makes sense to me! APN made them do it! Where does your extraordinary assumptions of personal repsonsibility fit into this picture?

            Have the drug wars been successful? Well, it depends on your unit of measure and the measure applied to the effort. Do you think the effort has been sufficient to solve the problem? What constitutional right do you have to smoke dope and endanger the lives of other law abiding people? Or maybe you are suggesting that we have NO LAWS of
            the land and all of us can just live FREELY no matter how it negatively affects others? That should fix it!

            I was in high school in the 60′s and 70′s and we didn’t have the first control free speak to us about drugs. It showed up from the great and foolish state of California via the Hell’s angles.

            So, using your logic, it was the control freeks or the “authorities” that created this rampant drug problem in America. Makes sense to me! Again, how does your extraordinary assumptions of personal responsibility and FREEDOM fit into this picture? Sounds pretty darn chaotic and dangerous to me.

            Now, something eludes me here. Given that California is a predominantly liberal-progressive state, then why did the measure fail? Are the dope smokers to stupid or too lazy to vote? If so, how does YOUR extraordinary assumptions of legalization fit into this picture? You seem to fail to understand the basic concepts of drug addiction and the resulting consequences of a FAKE attempt by congress to address the problem. Legalizing it will do nothing but increase it’s usage and do further damage to our children’s future.

            Daveh, I’m sure you have good intentions but legalizing drugs is a bad idea and YOUR “unintended consequences” will make those you assert at us so called “Do-gooders”, look like a cake walk.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            DaveH,
            I think you slipped a little about your highschool days. See the 60s were the free love flower children days. Pot use was rampant. Matter of fact, most of your progressive liberals are left-overs from those days. I too went to highschool in the sixties and I had several friends that smoked pot. I watched them go from dam good grades to barely passing over a period of a few months! I went in the army in 1968 and there were a lot of potheads in the service and a lot of them were given the choice of jail or discharge, then they went to treatment!

          • a progressive nightmare

            Joe….same here. I had several friends in HS that had VERY HIGH IQ’s and placed in the top 2 percentile of the class. Once they started smoking POT the grades when into the tank….Dumber than a box of rocks and lazy as a snail. A very close friend of mine was very intelligent and was the starting QB on our football team. He started smoking dope after football season our junior year and dropped out our senior year. These are just a few of the casulties I have personally witnessed in my lifetime. We lost several, DEAD and 6 foot under. This little innocent “Herb” as these potheads call it, is the GATEWAY to HELL.

      • a progressive nightmare

        DaveH…I agree with over 95% of your comments but I could not disagree with you more on this subject. If you had dealt with the POT related problems of the masses that I have, then you may change you opinion. Bad stuff is an understatement and the last thing we need is legal market access by the masses. Why would you want to legitimize drug use and how would this solve our drug problems in America?

        • Historian

          We already have “legal access” to marijuana in California. We have for over 14 years and the sky has not fallen (yet, teenage marijuana use rates have).

          Actually, the entire US has access to pure THC capsules (prescription Marinol) and THC’s lack of toxicity or addictiveness has lead to it being down-scheduled from a Class II drug (alongside cocaine and methamphetamine–both prescribable drugs) to a Class III drug (alongside codeine).

          Do a quick Google search and read up before saying things that just aren’t factual.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Historian,
            They have access to it only if they convince their Dr. to prescribe. You make it sound like they can walk into any convenient store and buy it!!

          • Historian

            Joe, marijuana can be recommended for any condition (however minor) here in California. The newspapers are replete with doctors specializing in medical cannabis. Many don’t even make a person pay unless they qualify for medical marijuana.

            ANYONE CAN GET A RECOMMENDATION!

            The comedian Seth Rogan was on TV Monday night talking about how he walked into one of these places and got a recommendation because he had a condition called “I have no weed on me.”

            That said, many, many ill people benefit from medical marijuana, but many others just use it as an excuse to get legal marijuana. Still, no one here seems to care because it isn’t causing any significant problems and (according to polls conducted after Prop. 19 failed with 46%) over half of citizens think it should be legalized generally (they just didn’t like the terms of Prop. 19).

        • Karolyn

          Progressive, you said “pot related problems of the masses?” My goodness, that sounds like a pretty big position to be in. So you have dealt with 1000s?

    • DaveH
    • DaveH

      Get some common sense, do-gooders:
      http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=12476

    • DaveH

      The Drug Laws do more harm than good:
      http://reason.org/news/show/the-drug-wars-collateral-damag

      • coal miner

        DaveH,

        You are right.I am for legalising drugs, prostitution and gambling.

        http://www.weeklyblitz.net/181/legalizing-drugs-and-prostitution

        • DaveH

          Some common ground, Miner. I agree, there should be no such things as victimless crimes.

          • Al Sieber

            DaveH and Coal Miner, I agree with you both. it says in the bible all the plants or herbs on earth are for man. I’m paraphrasing. this is a win for the drug cartels, our Govt., big pharma etc. follow the money. I remember not to long ago you could buy codeine cough syrup, opium tincture in Ariz.in the pharmacy without a note from a doctor. read Ron Paul’s book; Revolution: A Manifesto. he covers the Fed. Reserve, drugs etc. I’m sure you read it DaveH.

    • jimmy joe

      Its Always About Me,Myself,And I,And The Obsessions Of,Marijuana,And of other peoples Money.Isn’t It.OOOOH WEEEEH Gotta get some of Barack Obama’s Stash.

    • jimmy joe

      When you can seperate the wheat from the chaf we will.And I’ll Be The first to Defend you.But until then Its About A Functioning,Productive Society.Not Condoning,A Disfunctional Destructive Society,That claims,Not Me.Unfortunetely all of us Must Sacrifice some things We want,And would rather do.For the Best Interest,And Higher Purpose,Of life,Society,America,And Others.Thank God Our Founding Fathers,Didn’t Put their Material Wants,And Obsessions,Over Their Chosen Purpose.Or None Of Us Would even Be Having this debate,And Won’t much longer If We Don’t Start Prioritizing,Our Purpose,And seeking solutions,Rather than seeking our next escape,From Reality.Then like A Professional Football Game,A Great Coach Would Say to His Players.First Win the Game,Then We All Will Celebrate Victorius.Jimmy Joe/”The LiarFryer”

  • Palin12

    What’s the difference between California and the Titanic? Answer: the passengers aboard the Titanic did not vote to run into the iceberg.

    • 45caliber

      Good one.

  • JeffH

    Hey all, being a native Californian certainly allows me to put in my 2 cents worth on the subject.
    Californians as a majority are liberals who will continue to vote for politicians and legislative initiatives that cost the citizens jobs, homes and businesses and give the Sacramento crowd an open checkbook to spend from. They’re lousy at math, can’t add 2 + 2 with any accuracy.
    Had California presented an “LSD” lagalization measure on the ballot, I’m quite sure it would have passed with flying colors and plenty of room to spare, afterall, most Californians are still suffering the effects of “acid trips” from their youth.

    • DaveH

      One of the reasons prop 19 didn’t pass, Jeff, was because the Liberal promoters just couldn’t help sticking in a provision that would have made it illegal for employers to discriminate against pot-heads. Liberals just can’t bring themselves to keeping the Big Noses of Government out of other peoples’ business.

      • Historian

        A big reason Prop. 19 didn’t pass is because the big growers, illegal sellers and medical marijuana entrepreneurs fought hard against it. The former two didn’t want to pay taxes or be subject to regulation (many currently make hundreds of thousands of tax-free dollars, pay no income tax and even collect unemployment) and the latter enjoys a monopoly selling marijuana legally through storefront dispensaries.

        • http://naver samurai

          Probably because all the sane people voted against it. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Historian

        Would it be okay for employers to fire employee for being drinkers as long as they didn’t drink on the job?

        I hope you’re consistent because if Prop. 19 would’ve passed, both smoking marijuana and drinking alcohol (off the job, of course) would have been equally legal under state law.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Historian,
          Right now the airlines can and do fire pilots that come in with any level of alcohol in their system! They are not supposed to drink for a period of time before a flight. I believe it is 24 hours!

          • Historian

            Of course they can fire them for coming in under the influence and they should. I didn’t mean to imply that people can drink (or smoke) up until the point they walk in the door to work. I don’t know of anyone who would argue that such a situation would be appropriate.

            The situation I’m describing is one in which employers can fire an employee for having used alcohol or marijuana days or weeks ago. They can tell based on the evidence of lingering non-psychocative metabolites in the user’s body. THC metabolites stay in the body for up to 30 days, so it’s very easy to see if someone has consumed cannabis in the recent past.

            Similarly, liver tests can be conducted on drinkers to see if they’ve drank in the past weeks, but they generally aren’t done.

      • JeffH

        DaveH, I’m pretty disgusted with California and Californians as you well know. I voted for Prop 19 and thought it would pass, but then again, I voted against the liberals here and lost that one too. One can only conclude that Californians, just the majority, are really a pack of morons. They didn’t pass an $18 DMV fee for “free” state park usage and they didn’t pass the pot initiative but they keep voting for the thieves.
        Go figure!

  • Karolyn

    The narrow-mindedness and tunnel vision of so many of you just boggles my mind. I am so grateful I didn’t stop growing and changing once I reached 40 like you did.

    • a progressive nightmare

      ………..and thank you for confirming my statements concerning your childish thought process.

      • Karolyn

        Would that we could all think as a child.

    • jimmy joe

      Karolyn;Its Called When I was A Child.I did Childish,Immature,Foolish,And Irresponsible Things.But When I became An Adult.I Put Away Such Childish,Immature,Foolish,And Irresponsible Things.Some People Mature,And Grow-up.Others Never Do.

      • a progressive nightmare

        Boy that is the understatement of the century!

      • Karolyn

        You don’t know me at all. Who are you to judge me?

        • JeffH

          K, you do a pretty fair job of judging others yourself.
          Do you consider yourself “Self-righteous”?

          • a progressive nightmare

            Jeffh…She does as well as all other progressive-marxist. “Do as I say, not as I do”. Rules for us as to how to live and what to do with our hard earned money but they hold themselves exempt to their concepts and rules for their fellow man. They preach and bitch alot but do nothing or have no real solutions to anything. They are best at LIVING FREELY at OUR expense.

        • coal miner

          Karolyn,

          Don’t pay any attention to JeffH.Do you know he belongs to the Joy of Satan.Be careful about that chant of his.When he chants,you better look out.It sound like this. Baaaahhhh Baaaahhh.He could put a curse on you and you could laugh yourself to death.A horrible way to die.Grusome,to say the least.He sounds like a goat.Baaahhh Bahhhaaa. The goat is the symbol of the Devil.Beware! Ha Ha Ha

          • JeffH

            coal dunger, I see you’ve strayed from your dark, dank cave to inject a little humor into the fray…even made me chuckle. Thanks!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JeffH,
            I see coal dunger is putting the boots on his hands again!!!

        • jimmy joe

          Karolyn;Ididn’t Judge you;You Described Yourself,Your beliefs,And Priorities.And I Described Mine.You Also said that some young girls You Watched Over didn’t Prostitute their Bodies for Marijuana.So Are saying your mind is not a part of your body?If So I say It Is The most valuable part,of our body.”A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE”You could be the nicest person,With good Intentions.But the Pathway to Hell,Is Paved with good Intentions.Jimmy Joe/”The Liarfryer”

  • John R. Harbison

    I get high a lot, ever time I fly over the montains.thrugh the clouds or see a new born animal taking his first steps or drinking there first milk. Could go on and on. I have been around a long time and never had a wont to to try drugs. I dont need them. I have seen a lot of people that did use or push them but there never around long.
    They always end up in jail or dead or kidnaped. I have seen dope dealers with there big homes,cars, ect. but have never seen one that lives to a ripe old age with there kids and grandkids around them.
    I belive that if you work hard, do the best that you can and take care of your family and walk with God that you will have a happy loving life. You may have Your Ups and downs like the moon and sun and the waves in the ocean but the ups are my highs

    • a progressive nightmare

      Bea-uti-mus!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      John,
      AMEN!! That’s the high that God intended!!!

  • Hypocrites

    Personal Liberty? Like the currently in vogue Tea Partiers, it seems that most of you guys only want “personal liberty” when you’re talking about activities you personally approve of (e.g., guns, etc.).

    More people would be behind the Tea Party / Libertarian cause if only you’d have the courage to follow your convictions through to their sometimes “scary” conclusions.

    Unless you are willing to accept all the “bad things” that a small government and personal freedom entails (e.g., legal drugs, unpopular speech such as flag burning, etc.), you will never be seen as anything more than hypocritical blowhard, know-nothings and for good reason. Like all that have come before you and all those you claim to despise, you’re only truly interested in legislating your own preferences and your own view of morality (something you claim to be against).

    I only wish I was wrong…

    • a progressive nightmare

      ………..and your point is? What do GUNS have to do with illegal drugs? You ever read the 2nd amendment? As far as Free speech? Have at it! I could care less if you burn a flag and I am a TP’er. In fact, you can say whatever you want as long as you stand behind it and back it up. Yell “Fire-Fire-Fire” in the middle of a crowded shopping center if you want, just be man enough to take the consequences of your foolish behavior. We, as a nation, cannot stop you from doing the aforestated, at least one time, however, we can CONTROL DRUGS and we should.

      • DaveH

        I think what he is trying to say is that both the left-wingers and the right-wingers promote loss of freedom and Big Government. They just have different agendas to ram down our throats.

        • a progressive nightmare

          Daveh…and you have missed my point completetly as well. I certainly don’t advocate taking any FREEDOM away from you. I understand your concepts of liberty completely however it’s application has never been achievable due to the “Safety Net Mentality” of our current PROGRESSIVE NANNY state in America.

          Do you assume that giving people the freedom to do as they please would imply that all people will behave in a decent responsible manner without violating the rights of others or endangering others or placing a financial burden on others? You’re a smart guy, so I don’t think so. So, given the aforestated, how do we implement this proposed libertarian system of FREEDOM? Where does it start and where does it end?

          Let’s legalize POT right now, if you agree that WE THE PEOPLE will not supply any help or assistance to those who display bad judgements resulting in person injury to themselves or anyone else for that matter. Matter a fact, anyone foolish enough to buy drugs instead of food should be allowed to starve or live under a bridge. Agree or disagree??? I mean, who is going to pay for the adverse conditions created by drug usage, the user or us, and if us, then does that person have the “right” to continue placing THEIR bad behavior on society thus resulting in OUR financial loss?

          To achieve your concept of libertarian FREEDOM, then we must eliminate ALL forms of entitlements, welfare, medicaid, medicare, drug rehab and FREE HEALTHCARE. I certainly do not think that Daveh would require ME to pay for all the foolish behavior of others, do you? What would be libetarian about that?

          I mean let’s get real here, if adults behave like children, then shouldn’t they have the same rights as a CHILD? Does POT make people behave like Children and who will be financially responsible for their foolish behavior? Do you think WE ADULTS may need to control them or the SUBSTANCE, since we are FORCED via our NANNY STATE to take care of them when bad things happen?

          Bottom line, I am all about FREEDOM until this all-encompassing nanny-state government we have requires ME to get INVOLVED, at my time and expense, without option. So get rid of the current nanny state mentality and I will agree with you on legalizing drugs and when those irresponsible people commit crimes against their fellow man, then THEY pay the price, not us. When irresponsible people go bankrupt due to THEIR bad behavior, then THEY pay the price, not us…or our GRANDCHILDREN……etc etc etc and yes, I include all BAD BEHAVIOR in my conclusions, not just those that are drug enduced.

          I think what we are missing here is the fact that CHILDREN do not have the FREEDOM to do as they please, and if so, some RESPONSIBLE ADULT must pay for it. So under your system of libetarian FREEDOM, who the heck is going to pay for all this childish drug enduced foolishness?

          Does not paying for another man’s crimes give US the right to remove his or her FREEDOMS if the majority of US deem necessary?

      • Hypocrites

        A Progressive Nightmare: “we can CONTROL DRUGS and we should”? Seriously? We can’t even keep drugs out of prisons, much less the free world. Fortunately, most people have a pretty strong self-preservation instinct and don’t do drugs other than marijuana.

        Alcohol prohibition required a Constitutional Amendment because the Constitution doesn’t allow the government to prohibit what we put into our own bodies. Tell me, how is the situation with marijuana (or other drugs) any different?

        Let me guess: it just is.

        DaveH: You are correct in your thinking, sir.

      • jimmy joe

        Progressive Nightmare;The Difference Is;You And I Can Seperate Right VS.Wrong,And Good VS.Evil Intent.We Know That Using Fire For Cooking Food Is Good,And Using Fire To Incinerate Jews In Nazi’Germany Is Evil.They Don’t.They Just Believe Everybody Has the Right to Do What Ever They Want.After All to them,Its Their Fire,So Its Their Right.

        • a progressive nightmare

          Correct! And as long as it does not interfere with their sacrid FREEDOMS of doing whatever they please regardless of the expense to others. Given their logic, we should have NO laws of the land and all should be able to do as they please. In fact, I should be able to get doped up from a purchase at the local market and then walk into your home, rape your wife, kill your kids, take all the money and HOW DARE anyone think I DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO IT. FREEDOM BABY!

          Makes perfect sense to me. I say we legalize DRUGS today and get all these oppressive laws of unintended consequences behind us. I’m sure America will be a great place to live and raise a family in.

          Extraordinary assumptions of human behavior will get you every time.

          • Hypocrites

            Wow! Quite a jump from being able to smoke marijuana legally to home invasion, rape, murder, etc.! Is that really how your mind works?

            “If I let my kid ride a bike, then he’ll also feel free to drive a car, speed down sidewalks, run over pedestrians, etc.”?

            Do you oppose the personal ownership of guns? If not, aren’t you afraid that people will take the freedom to own a gun and start stockpiling handguns, then machine guns, then pipe bombs, then grenades, then nuclear weapons, etc.?

            Of course, the situations I described are ridiculous, but so is the one that you envision. I’ll be generous and bet that you even know better.

            Here in California, anyone can consume marijuana legally (with a doctor’s note) or illegally with the threat of a $100 ticket. Despite your paranoia, everyone here does not smoke marijuana, then rape, rob and kill. Rather, (like people everywhere) we have morals and understand limits. Unlike you, we don’t need the threat of police action and government coercion to make sound choices.

            Personal liberty indeed, Regressive Fantasy…I mean, Progressive Nightmare.

          • a progressive nightmare

            Hypocrites…… and I guess that is the reason that your state is bankrupt? You think maybe it has anything to do with drug usage? I mean, let’s get real here, WE THE PEOPLE are bailing you out due to decades of foolish spending and you have the audacity to call us hypocrites? Can you connect the dots here? What kind of a person would spend moeny they do not have to spend? What kind of a person would spend their GRANDCHILDRENS money? Seems to be a moral issue here. You think drugs may have anything to do with this?

            In fact, as I reflect back on the past 5 decades of life, I would suggest that YOUR state is the catalist for the drug problems we have in America today. Why do you think smart people and businesses are leaving your state in droves.

            Guns and drugs? I fail to understand your comparison. We have a right to own a gun protected by the 2nd amendment. You do not have a constitutional right to use DRUGS and endanger other people lives. If you are a pot head and under the influence of THC, then I have no problem taking your GUN rights away from you. Sober minded people don’t run up and down the streets shooting their neighbors. Drunk FOOLS and POTHEADS maybe, but sober law abiding people, I don’t think so.

          • Historian

            Other states that don’t have such permissive marijuana laws as California are “bankrupt” as well, so I don’t see much of an argument there. Actually, your definition of “bankrupt” would also include the US government since California is only spending more than we bring in in state taxes, but we’re not in default (the real definition of “bankrupt”).

            Bailing us out? Please get your facts straight. Despite being “bankrupt,” California has the 8th largest economy in the world, plus we’re a donor state, which means we receive 72 cents in services for every dollar we pay into the federal government. That also means that without California, people in other states would have to pay higher federal taxes.

            Spending our grandchildren’s money? It seems you have no problem doing so when it comes to locking up people for smoking marijuana or fighting unnecessary wars abroad, so I think the term “hypocrite” is quite apt. Prop. 19 was about taxing the marijuana that’s already sold in California and bringing in additional revenue, but you seem to be against that, so you’re the one that wants to spend without bringing in the revenue needed to pay for the spending.

            Lift up your computer and look at the label. Chances are it says “designed in California.” The same goes for your iPod or cellphone (if you chose one made by an American company). If you eat fruits, nuts or vegetables, chances are they come from here. Do you listen to music? Probably recorded and produced here too. Watch movies? Yep, California again.

            How do these facts jive with your “California is the root of all evil because they don’t spend millions locking people up for smoking marijuana” theory?

            I’m sure facts are of little consequence to you though. I could continue to post study after study showing that marijuana is not the devil you think it is, but your prejudices and assumptions will likely never be overcome.

            Enjoy your world.

        • Hypocrites

          Jimmy Joe, please remember that the Nazis were Conservatives, not Liberals. The Communists, however, were Liberals and thus, hated the Conservative Fascists.

          All sides are capable of atrocities, but the thinking you’re displaying (the dehumanization of another group of your fellow countrymen) is the mechanism through which atrocities are always carried out.

          Seriously, look it up.

          • jimmy joe

            You Missed my point;I said those who couldn’t seperate Right from wrong.Semantics My Blogger Contemporary.Evil comes in all stripes yet they are still evil.Conservative Preachers Cheat on their family,And embezzel church money yet their still cheats.Its the right or wrong,on the Inside.Not the Political,Affiliation.Hitler also collaborated with muslims,and communist to Accomplish his long term plan For A new world Order,All About his anti-humanity beliefs of others he felt expendable to meet his agenda to accomodate muslims so they would not interfere with his aggression against the world.

        • a progressive nightmare

          Historian…. Yeah, you are bankrupt, you just don’t know it yet. I am positive that YOUR state will be given an avenue for bankruptcy within the next 12 months. This will force your “leadership” to abrogate all contracts, state pensions, etc etc etc that were based on nothing more than a DUMB PROGRESSIVE PONZI scheme. But I’m sure drugs didn’t have anything to do with the mire and the muck we all find ourselves in today. Nada….nothing! I bet it was those EVIL corporations that did it! I bet that EVIL capitalism did it! Heck, if I had my business in your state I would shut it down today and move it.

          Come back to me in 12 months and talk to me about the 8th largest economy of your beloved state. Fact is, the bailout crap is over so bankruptcy will be your only course of action available.

  • Boo Ewald Taylor, IL

    Pot is so misunderstood by so many. Alcohol is far far worse on a body than pot. Look at the relationships you’ve all seen alcohol ruin and destroy people’s lives you know. The american indians called it the peace pipe for good reason. I know a few hard working tax paying pot smokers, they are good responsible people who prefer to toke and not drink and are incredibly happy people. I think there’e something to it. If experience is a good teacher, then I’ve learned it’s not such a bad thing. Treat it like alcohol, abusers will abuse no matter what you want them to do.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Boo,
      So what?? I know quite a few drinkers that only drink on special occaisions, happy as well and loved very much by their families. I STLL WOULDN’T WANT MY KIDS RIDING IN A CAR WITH THEM, OR IN A CAR NEXT TO THEM WHEN THEY DO!!! There are quite a few families that have been torn apart by pot as well!!

  • barbm

    you can’t control things that operate behind the line of the law. to control it, you have to bring it out into the light. by selling it in liquor stores, it can be taken from children. old juan or bill down the street can’t make a living off selling to children for their lunch money and will go out of business.

    the adults i knew (and the ones i still know) who smoke pot know you can’t give an employer an honest days work for an honest days wages while stoned any more than you could drunk. they do it after work. i waited until dinner was done, dishes washed, kids bathed and in bed, and my homework done. i’d smoke a joint about an hour before bed while kicking back to watch a little tv. if you wait til then, there’s not enough time to eat yourself into the grave before bed. i don’t smoke pot now because it’s illegal, and i can’t afford the loss of liberty, income, etc. by getting caught with it. if it was legal, i’d like to smoke a bit now and then, but i wouldn’t be a regular user. it’s NOT addictive.

    a gateway drug? not!! i’ll tell you what causes kids to go to stronger stuff. we tell them pot will make you crazy, then it doesn’t. then you actually expect them to believe us when we tell them how bad heroin and other drugs are? really? by the time they realize those drugs really are bad, it’s too late. they’re hooked.

    as others have stated, lazy people will be lazy whether stoned or sober. dishonest people who kill, rob, etc. are what they are whether stoned or sober.

    we could use the tax money and jobs it’d create. we could use the space freed up in prisons so we could keep pedophiles, murderers, and rapists in longer (forever!!). we could use the police protection where there are victims. but first and foremost, we need our liberty.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      barbm,
      Your whole story lost any value when you said you smoked it with kids in the house!!! You weren’t a very responsible parent if you did that! Your kids come down say ” Mom does that so it isn’t bad and they get something with rat poison in it!! I know, it’s an herb!! So is hemlock and it kills!!!

      • a progressive nightmare

        Case closed……impaired judgement and we wonder why our kids have a drug problem?

    • http://none Mike

      Barb, Not forever just untill we find the space in the chair for them. If they have taken a life they must give one in turn. How fast would these crimes slow down? If the comitter knew that when he got caught he would face a short trial one appeal and a short trip to the rope,chair or chamber. Mike L.

  • Jill

    We won’t allow gay marriage and we won’t allow pot.

  • alpha-lemming

    Sorry for the late addition…

    An addictive personality is an addictive personality and the over-indulgence can be alcohol, pot, sex, gambling, eating, or ANYTHING. By this logic, we should out-law Big-Macs because 1:1000 people will put away 15,000 calories/day and the other 999 must be punished. Same argument could apply to gun-control… the responsible pay the price for the criminal/irresponsible actions of the few. Some things should definately remain illeagal (crack, PCP etc.) but pot ain’t one of ‘em.

    I’ll close my post by harkening back (2-4 yrs ago) and asking you to recall the Canadian Oympic snow-boarder who was stripped of his gold medal because he tested positive for pot. You have 3 positions to argue from:

    1) Pot is a performance enhancing drug and gave him an unfair advantage. Good luck with putting that thought process together.

    2) Pot is so debilitating as to make him unfunctional. Likewise, good luck with that one…. he did win the gold.

    3) It makes no difference. The only logical conclusion yet the stuff is still illegal.

    • Vicki

      alpha-lemming writes:
      ” By this logic, we should out-law Big-Macs because 1:1000 people will put away 15,000 calories/day and the other 999 must be punished.”

      Careful there. You might give government ideas. Oh wait.

  • WARLORDX

    If you don’t smoke pot you don’t deserve an opinion.

    Everything you think you know is speculation, misinformation, and lies.
    Research it or shut up.

    • Vicki

      Why do I have to smoke pot to have an opinion about it? Is it not true that the wise learn from the mistakes of others?

  • The Dumbest, Most Bigoted Generation

    What do you think the average age of the fervently anti-cannabis posters on this site is?

    70 years old? 80?

    Fortunately, their (voting) days are numbered.

    tinyurl. com/ prop19-elderly

    • a progressive nightmare

      and I wonder if you will think that when YOU get 70+.

  • Johnny

    Whats the big deal???? Its an herb non addictive and I like it!!!! I think pot should be legalized because I find nothing wrong with it.

  • Kyle

    Hey Warlordx get ur head out ur ass and see the light every ones entitled to an opinion I love pot and would love nothing more than for it to be legalized.

  • John C

    For those of you who want to know the real facts behind the drug war, Pick up a copy of “Dope, Inc. It’s a true narative of the governments role in drugs. Very informative.

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