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Video Games Depict Religion As Problematic

February 28, 2012 by  

Video Games Depict Religion As Problematic

It has long been noted that video games often contain graphic content including violence, gore, drug use and sexuality, but a new study points out another trend: the vilification of organized religion.

Greg Perreault, a doctoral student at the University of Missouri School of Journalism, examined five recent video games with religious-themed storylines — “Mass Effect 2,” “Final Fantasy 13,” “Assassin’s Creed,” “Castlevania: Lords of Shadow” and “Elder Scrolls: Oblivion” — and found that each associated religion with violence.

“In most of these games there was a heavy emphasis on a ‘Knights Templar’ and crusader motifs,” Perreault said. “Not only was the violent side of religion emphasized, but in each of these games religion created a problem that the main character must overcome, whether it is a direct confrontation with religious zealots or being haunted by religious guilt.”

The researcher said that he did not believe the game developers are intentionally vilifying religion.

“It doesn’t appear that game developers are trying to purposefully bash organized religion in these games,” Perreault said. “I believe they are only using religion to create stimulating plot points in their story lines. If you look at video games across the board, most of them involve violence in some fashion because violence is conflict and conflict is exciting. Religion appears to get tied in with violence because that makes for a compelling narrative.”

Perreault presented his findings at the Center for Media Religion and Culture Conference on Digital Religion.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • former walmart person

    I have played video game a lot in my 31 years of life, and the central theme in alot of RPGs (role playing games – my favorite type of video game) is overcomming tyranny. That tyranny may be imposed by a powerful queen, the tyranny of bowzer in mario brothers, the tyranny of a powerful corporation, government, etc.

    I have also seen the theme with games where the hero initially works for the evil force, but then defects and fights agains that power. This has happened with a few of the final fantasy games.

    Finally, the characters usually fight against one evil entity, only to find out later that there is an even greater evil really pulling the strings that the characters must fight and overcome.

    Based on this, people like Bob livingston and Alex Jones ought to approve of a lot of video games. I agree that the first person shooters like call of duty kind of promote the military industrial complex but there are plenty of video games out there showing the fight between liberty and tyranny / death.

    • Robert Smith

      From the article: ““In most of these games there was a heavy emphasis on a ‘Knights Templar’ and crusader motifs,””

      Remember, the Knights Templar were TORTURED and hounded by the church so they could grab their wealth.

      Seems to me the church has had enough violence to validate any inclusion in a violent game.

      Rob

      • http://n/a Walker

        Contrary to your disposition, I state thusly; “True religion, undefiled and acceptable by the Father is to visit the fatherless and the widow in their affliction and to keep thyself unspotted from the world”.

      • http://naver samurai

        They were not after their wealth, for it was that they became too powerful. Some of them controled entire kingdoms and most had fallen away from the church, went out on their own, that is. They were declared heretics (Like Bishop Spong), so shouldn’t he suffer the same fate? Should he have to wait till the afterlife to be punished? Neeeeed to be making that popping sound. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • CJ

      The problem with playing games, is the outcome is determined by the programmer, not real life. If the programmer doesn’t like it, it won’t be an option for an outcome. Real life, anything can happen. They’re just another way to instill false confidence, and condition people to expect a predetermined outcome. With no high moral compass to guide the programmer (and I doubt any of them use one), players are learning a false reality.

      • former walmart person

        By your logic, we should never have books, play, TV, and movies. We should just regress to cave man days where the only possible story is reality. Oh wait, even the cavemen told “programmed” stories after a successful tribal hunt….

        Nothing is stopping people from making video games the way you would like to see them. I have been playing video games for decades, and trust me, there are video games promoting just about everything just like movies and books. Video games that promote government tyranny, video games that promote the military industrial complex, video games that prmote liberty and freedom, video games that support religion (there was a really buggy game where the object was to convert sinners to Christianity in the end times), video games that bash religion, etc.

        Now one legitamate argument, is the time consumption with video games. your average video game is a hobby because it takes at least 20 hours to complete. however, I suppose it can take quite awhile to read a good book as well… Like anything, you have to balance work and play

  • former walmart person

    look up these games on wikipedia and read the plot if you will never play the game and/or don’t care for a spolier. All of these do a good job of showing the fight between liberty and tyranny.

    - final Fantasy 4 (Japan version 4) super nintendo
    - final fantasy tactics (the first one for play station, not the cutsie game boy advance one)
    - ogre battle, march of the black queen (super nintendo and wii virtual console
    - ogre battle 64, person of lordly caliber (nintendo 64)
    - Final Fantasy 12
    - Civilization video game series (if you choose a more free system of governmnet, productivity increases, and if you choose a more tyrannical system of government, productivity declines, but you can wage war easier.

    etc., etc.

    • CJ

      By your insistance to defend the games, their conditioning of players into believing a false reality is evident. It may not have been intended by the programmer, but it is a consequence of living your life mostly outside of reality. People don’t behave within a programmers limits.

      • former walmart person

        Again, by your logic, we shouldn’t have books, plays, and movies in our society. Afterall, when we read a book, watch a play, watch a movie, or play a video game, we are having to go through a “programmed” reality.

      • http://naver samurai

        I see that FWP does not realize that sometimes these games affect people’s minds into thinking that this is reality. I don’t think that my son reading The Three Musketeers is going to affect his psyche. I remember all the talk about Dungeons and Dragons when I was in high school. A group of us used to play, but we knew it was only a game. Some people are at a certain stage that these games, especially the bloody ones, can affect their personality, thinking, and mental state. I hope you understand what I’m saying. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Bob M

    Religion is violent. Actually it is not religion per se but religious extremists and zealots that cause the violence. The Knights Templar and the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Taliban Hezbollah, jihad it is all violence in the name of God. May be video games are emphasizing violent aspects of religion, and may be we as a society need to be concerned with the violence our children are exposed to, but people are being murdered in the name of God as we speak. Perhaps we should spend some time analyzing the psychology behind that.

    • Deerinwater

      They fail to recognize such things. They hear harps, and think of benevolent people with halos holding a lost lamb.

      They fail to see the Jews as Warring Tribes or King David as a Warring King, but only humble servants of their God.

      That Abraham or Moses were just big old pussycats that never harmed anyone that didn’t deserve it.

      It’s just too funny, All of this struggle and human strife is Glossed over as Christians read their bibles.

      I like the story about the old Fart that accursed his daughters of getting him drunk to have sex with him. ~ Well? if found in such a predicament and a story having to be told, that the way I’d tell it too!

      It nice, when you can offer you own spin on any telling of events.

    • http://naver samurai

      Knights Templar, baaaaa! Crusades, baaaaa! Inquisitions, baaaaa! Why do people bring up things that are centuries old and have no part in what is going on today? Islam? They have been at war with the world since it’s beginning. They have killed 270 million people for their cultic faith. How about the war on the unborn in this country? 50-56 million and counting. Care to answer the questions Bob? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Robert Smith

        samurai asks: “Why do people bring up things that are centuries old and have no part in what is going on today?”

        Because the actions of that brutal church had ramifications that have progressed to today.

        Check out: “Born in Blood: The Lost Secrets of Freemasonry”

        From Amzaon: http://www.amazon.com/Born-Blood-Lost-Secrets-Freemasonry/dp/0871316021

        “Unlike most of its five million members, including many world leaders, who believe that the Freemasons, the world’s largest fraternal organization, evolved from the guilds of medieval stonemasons, historian Robinson persuasively links Freemasonry’s origins and goals to the once powerful and wealthy Knights Templar order. Banned and persecuted by a 14th-century papal bull, he claims, the Knights were forced to form an underground society. The author combines scholarly research and entertaining storytelling in tracing Freemasonry as a worldwide political, religious, economic and social body dedicated to self-improvement and charity while governed by secret rituals and symbols (explained here in detail).
        Copyright 1989 Reed Business Information, Inc.”

        You may want to do some research on Jacques de Molay.

        Besides, if you wanna hijack history by lying about it you shouldn’t be surprised when someone posts facts.

        BTW, George Washington was also a Mason along with Ben Franklen.

        Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        Yes Rob, some of our founders were masons, yes I know. But this has nothing to do with the subject at hand. It has nothing to do with the battle between games and Christian beliefs. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        P.S. Don’t forget that many people those days became Masons because it was popular, not because of beliefs.

  • Deerinwater

    I hunt and fish, not much of a gamer, or a voyeur. I’m free to choose to select and i would not take that freedom away from others.

  • WilliamWallace

    Same theme in the “Halo” series. “Halo”, an XBOX 360 exclusive game, is the biggest selling 1st person shooter game ever. The “aliens” are depicted as religous fanatics and the “humans” are charged with heroicly stopping these “fundamentalist aliens”.

    The culture war is real and if we don’t start fighting back, we will lose Western Civilization as we know it in the very near future.

    • Deerinwater

      If there be a war, it’s one Christians started by passing judgement on others as the Tea Party 2010 results come full bloom and even the deaf,dumb and blind are beginning to understand they have a hidden agenda they don’t openly speak of.

      The original Tea Party was a “cloaking while deferring guilt and blame” event of a minority that wished to sway public opinion to their way of thinking.

      The claim that was presented at the time was, “taxation without representation” but their aims and goal were set much higher. They wanted a War, as the King of England wanted his payments in “Gold”. The moneyed people of the time thought it not to their personal liking.

      The Tea Party makes many claims today, all holding some elements of the truth that can not be denied. But their agenda and goals are much greater then their claims.

      It’s not difficult to fall prey to being a mindless servant to your own demise today, as things are not as they seem.

      This attempt to polarize and divide is not anything “new” but very,very old.

      We have “special Americans” today, that pass judgement on other Americans, making claims other’s are not “good enough” to be Americans. The only way to be good enough is to think, act, walk and talk like them!

      hhmm? All I can say, is “Up Yours!” and the horse you rode in on!

      • WilliamWallace

        The Tea Party has nothing to do with anti-religous themes in video games. Your ranting and raving makes no sense.

        Their is no hidden agenda of the Tea Party. Their agenda is to stop our federal government from spending our nation into oblivian. A noble cause indeed.

        This country is $16 trillion in debt Deerinwater. Your “Occupy” mentality is that you hate everything, but offer no solutions…At least the Tea Party stands for something.

        After listening to dozens and dozens of interviews with “Occupy” protestors, it is clear that most of the individual protesting have no idea how the government even works. They are nothing more than “useful idiots” brought forth by Mr. Van Jones on behalf of the Obama Regime, in an attempt to start a Class War in the USA.

        Wake up Deerinwater. And “up yours” right back at ya;)

      • Deerinwater

        Then you are a blind servant to you own demise William. Don’t take offence, you have got a lot of company. Many of you have joined these ranks for all the right reasons.

        “The Tea Party has nothing to do with anti-religous themes in video games. Your ranting and raving makes no sense.” ; you say.

        It makes no sense only because you are blinded. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. One of Mr. Newton’s observations of the “physical world”.

        When you come to me with clinched fists, I clinch mine.

        Many of the 2010 middle term Tea party candidates have been recalled and there is more to follow. This is happening due to disingenuous campaigning and a publicly statement agenda’s fail to be reflected in “actions”( what they did and what they said, just didn’t wash). Voters are experiencing “Buyer Remorse” and subjecting these “disingenuous elected officials” to “due process” . It is a slow process but it is happening as we speak. No doubt, you have not hear or it’s importance played down.

        If you permitted all current events into you world instead of just the ones that “pleased you”, you would know these things and know them to be true.

        That you don’t, seems to make you ‘blinded” to “certain facts” William.

        The far right, has instigated this conflict to separate and divide. The effect of which will be far reaching.

        As a returning home a Nam vet, I found my life being stereotyped as a “bad guy”. The bad guy TV characters for much of the 70′s wore Boony Hats and OD green military field jackets and went a killing and raping and robbing and shooting for a good 7 years.

        I say to the Christian Right Winger’s, get over yourselves, don’t start none and there won’t be none, ~ but it’s too late for that! Like me, you will learn to out live what you have been a part of.

      • Deerinwater

        “This country is $16 trillion in debt Deerinwater. Your “Occupy” mentality is that you hate everything, but offer no solutions…At least the Tea Party stands for something.”

        I know little about the “OWS” bunch and I doubt if you really do. ~ a snap shot, in time does not a comprehensive story make. and “W” left us with 10 trillion and it’s taken 4 to dig back out which leaves the current administration responsible for 2. ( and I think that it’s closer to 17 today. )

        and YES! the Tea Party stands for a lot of things! Some good and noble and some, not so much. Clearly you have swallowed the Tea party hook, line and sinker.

        Well, enjoy what you can, when you can as you are about to experience a fall.

        You people have went about it wrong, the TEA Party need to come out of the closet and tell the American people the truth about their true aims and intentions, but of course if they do that, they will never get elected on the national stage.

        But like Chris Christie says; “Let the people decide.”

      • http://naver samurai

        Well said and very true William. Just ignore deermakingwater and Rob Smith, as they lie and are against anything dealing with Christianity. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Robert Smith

        Here goes samurai with yet another lie… Well, he doesn’t think so because he doesn’t count Bishop Spong as HIS kind of christian: “Just ignore deermakingwater and Rob Smith, as they lie and are against anything dealing with Christianity.”

        I’ve often cited Bishop Spong as a christian of positive outlook that I can respect.

        Why don’t you let readers figure out what THEY think is christian rather than YOU telling them? I’m sure many out there who want to call themselves want to do it with love and not hate in thier hearts.

        Rob

      • Deerinwater

        “They are nothing more than “useful idiots” brought forth by Mr. Van Jones on behalf of the Obama Regime, in an attempt to start a Class War in the USA.”

        A volley of return fire is not an “attempt” to start a war Sir.

        This particular war was started by the Reagan Administration some 30 years ago. It started off at a rather slow pace at first, with Ronnie saying lofty things, like “let’s wake up this Industrial giant” and “Let us get the Federal government off of the peoples back”.

        Sounded good at the time but the devil always lie wait in the details.

        The victims of the 80′s were manageable and less numbers then today, they were quickly dismissed as lazy malcontent, guilty of something deserving their misfortune. They didn’t have a voice and were unorganized , received little press, hardly a mention. People were screwed out of their retirement, in several different ways. People approaching vesting time were dismissed. Full time employees was replaced with part-time, as companies skirted laws and obligations.

        That is when this current Class War actually started, It was started from the top and went all the way down to the bottom. It had pretty names , like “increase in deficient reduction” and “Down sizing” , “leveraged buy-out” , and “Liability management”.

        But “not everyone” was aware of this war, as even now , we have people jumping up and suggesting someone is trying to start one. This kind of makes you wonder, ~ exactly where have these people been for the last 30 years? It must have been a nice place!

      • Deerinwater

        “Just ignore deermakingwater and Rob Smith, as they lie and are against anything dealing with Christianity.”

        It’s Deerinwater Sir. ~ Longshanks Deerinwater,

        You perverse my name and Christianity in a single breath.

        I got to hand it to you Samuria, when it comes to screwing things up, you truly excel and show us how it’s done.

        You understanding of Christianity falls somewhere between Christmas Carroll’s and “Yes Jesus loves me” but that’s okay ! It’s a nice start. I encourage you to stay with it and continue your journey, there is much that awaits you.

      • http://naver samurai

        Rob, do you know what a heretic is? Since many of the things he preaches are against the Bible and the teachings of Jesus, this makes him a false teacher, a heretic. The church was very relieved when he retired. Since you have a Bible, look up some of the things he was talking about. I guarantee you will see many contradictions between the two. If you don’t, then you are just as blind as he is. A blind fool just groping around in the dark and the ones who follow him being just as blind. Neeeeed to be making that popping sound. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Deerinwater

          “You can’t have a light without a dark to stick it in.” — Arlo Guthrie

          Great Heretics in History — Giordano Bruno (1548-1600)

          Who better to lead off our series on “Great Heretics in History” than Giordano Bruno, ex-Dominican monk who was burned at the stake on order of Pope Clement VIII….

          “Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve around these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun. Living beings inhabit these worlds.” — Giordano Bruno, Italian monk of the sixteenth century.

          Among Bruno’s outrageous beliefs were his assertions that the stars were actually other suns spanning the infinite reaches of space and the entire universe was composed of the same matter. As if that wasn’t bad enough, he firmly believed in the heliocentric theories of Copernicus, and said so in a voice so loud they could hear him back in Rome.

          And, as if to prove how foolish he was, Bruno returned to Italy. Arrested, tried, and convicted, he was imprisoned in the dungeon of Castel Sant’Angelo in Rome for six years. Refusing to recant, he was finally treated to a barbecue, Inquisition-style, in the year 1600. While his heretical beliefs of astronomical theories were not the only crimes for which he was burned at the stake, they most certainly fueled the fire from which Galileo no doubt smelled the smoke.

          5. Once Heresy now Truth — same sex orientation, for a percentage of the population, is a normal expression of sexuality and occurs in all of creation

          The churches previous but changing position— the Bible says homosexuality is a sin

          The statement ‘the Bible says homosexuality is a sin’ is actually a false statement. It’s impossible for homosexuality to be a sin. We know from science today that homosexuality is a sexual orientation like heterosexuality and therefore it’s amoral. As I find myself saying repeatedly to people who have been taught to believe the equation that homosexuality = promiscuity—‘my morality is a choice, my sexual orientation, however, isn’t’.

          Many are surprised to find there is no chapter or verse for that quote we hear so often ‘the Bible says homosexuality is a sin’ in either the Old or New Testaments; it is a belief or assumption based on an interpretation of several verses—six passages out of 31,240 verses.

    • Robert Smith

      From William: “The culture war is real and if we don’t start fighting back, we will lose Western Civilization as we know it in the very near future.”

      Fighting “back?”

      May I remind you that it is the right that is assaulting folks at women’s health care clinics, blowing them up, and flying legislation at the rest of America to stop same sex couples from marrying, folks from dying with diginity, and to crush an herb.

      The right wing is fighting to take over the schools with prayers to their god, our country so it is UNDER their god, and trying to push creationism off as valid science.

      Figh back… At least be honest about your aggression.

      Rob

      • former walmart person

        “May I remind you that it is the right that is assaulting folks at women’s health care clinics, blowing them up, and flying legislation at the rest of America to stop same sex couples from marrying, folks from dying with diginity, and to crush an herb.”

        - I can recall 1, maybe 2 instances of abortion clinic bombardment. Look, there isn’t comparitvely much violence from the left either. The vast majority of violence in the world comes from Islamic extremism and government sanctioned violence / warmongering.

        “The right wing is fighting to take over the schools with prayers to their god, our country so it is UNDER their god, and trying to push creationism off as valid science.”

        - Why is the idea of creation so “dis-proven”? Science’s own laws state that matter cannot be created and that over time, energy tends toward disorder, but then how do you account for all the present matter and level of overal energy quality? It has simply “always existed”? It is impossible for the human mind to comprehend infinity on a standard linear timeline. The science of quantum mechanics lends more toward the possiblity of some higher power then other sciences. Look, I am not trying to push my views… I have no idea if there is an afterlife and what it might entail. Humans arguing about relgion and the nature of the universe before creation / big bang is akin to asking a room full of feces throwing monkeys how to improve upon the design of a modern atomic reactor. It is just an udder and complete waste of time IMO.

      • Deerinwater

        “Fight back… At least be honest about your aggression.”

        I think that you can forget about them being honest Robert.

        Dishonesty is their “stock & trade” , Like WMD’s and who has them, They live in a world of ‘”rumor” and run around half cocked 24/7.

        It’s whatever that”offends”, and just about everything does!

        Small people, that live in constant “fear” . The GOP most favorite kind, as they are easily lead.

        But that said, Today, the GOP is falling apart before our eyes.

        Just too many lies! in too short of time,they are not giving people the time to forget the last lie and they are telling another.

        The DNC requires “worthy opposition” our system of government is based on it.

        This falling apart, is not a good thing.

      • http://naver samurai

        SSDD, eh Rob? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • phoenix

    there is a big difference between organized religion and personal spirituality. no one can deny that. historically speaking, many genocides in history have been carried out in the name of religion, and it continues today, though we often get a filtered picture of it. so organized religion does have a bit of answering to do to the charges of its violent suppression and oppression. however, at the grassroots level, religion can and many times does help others, feed and clothe the poor, and offer comfort to those who seek it.

    i was a little girl when video games were just gaining a foothold in the home. i grew up with mario, zelda and metroid and continued playing while video games matured into interactive cinema with complex narratives and breathtaking graphics and musical scores. most video games now require a certain amount of mental maturity to enjoy responsibly.

    that being said, i’m not sure why this particular article was included in the personal liberty report. isn’t a critique of religion fair game under our first amendment? i’m not religious by any means, and that’s part of why i’m such a staunch defender of the US constitution because it protects (note i did not say “grants”) my right not to believe. it also protects my right to purchase and responsibly enjoy video games and the material contained therein. i have to disagree that there is any attack on religion today. there is only a defense of the fact that public, government-sanctioned/owned space has no authority to elevate any one religion over others.

    there may be the argument that this sort of “negative” depiction of religion in video games undermines our society’s values and so on, but if you go beyond that it’s really the parents who, ignoring their kids to pursue their own self-serving interests, are failing to impart any kind of guidelines. how hard would it be to sit with your kids and to really understand what it is they’re playing and consuming, and to discuss the material that’s being presented?

  • former walmart person

    Look, regardless of whether the theme is “against religion” or against “government tyranny”, one over riding feature of alot of video games is that some things are worth fighting for. Perhaps the enemy is depicted as false religion, but fighting is pretty much in all video games.

    So fight for your freedoms. If you guys hate games like Halo and Final fantasy 13 so much, then work to form your own company and make your own video game that depicts what you want it to depict. I can tell you right now, that if there was a video game in sort of a Fallout 3 style where you scrounge the post hyperinflationary collapsed USA fighting for liberty and freedom against the UN, I wouldn’t think twice about scooping up this game in a heart beat. Indeed, a game like Final Fantasy Tactics for PS1 depicts the politics of a nation being torn apart in a civil war after a collapsed economy where all the knights, mages, and squires have no job prospects and turn to crime, etc.

    If, in your quest to form a video game that works against the big video game companies lands you in prison or even death for running foul of stupid regulations, then decide how you will fight, but fight!! If there is one OVERRIDING THEME IN VIDEO GAMES IT IS FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM. FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHT TO EXIST. FIGHT THE SYSTEM AND THE ESTABLISHED ORDER.

    • cerebus23

      Well said, i suppose video games could use islamic baddies trying to take over the world but then the devs would get death threaths. So more often than not catholic or protestents get the prize since neither of them has a brainwashed group of lackies that will email and write and perform real violence against you if you badmouth their religion or god.

      Its pretty sad when defenders of liberty do not defend other things they just hate or do not understand, nor do they out out any effort to understand that games are an art form, that the people that work on them have equal rights along those that write books, make movies, and create music. That because they are new and a younger form of speech compared to the others that they somehow are beyond those protections or not worthy of them is shortsighted and just plain backwards.

  • Deerinwater

    “there is a big difference between organized religion and personal spirituality.”

    a SEA of difference.

  • TML

    “…the vilification of organized religion.”

    No reason to suppress the truth… game on, lol

    “In every country, in every age, the preist has been hostile to liberty” – Thomas Jefferson

    • http://naver samurai

      “I have always said, and will always say, that studious perusal of the Sacred Volume (Bible) will make us better citizens.”

      Thomas Jefferson

      “I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.”

      Thomas Jefferson

      “God who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are a gift from God?”

      Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Memorial

      “The Christian religion is the best religion that has ever been given to man.”

      Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Memorial

      You can see these and more at:

      http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=8755

      FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • http://naver samurai

        You can also look at:

        http://www.americasfoundingfathers.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/a-christian-nation

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        P.S. Jefferson was more religious then you give him credit for TML. Need to study history a little more.

      • TML

        My quote says, priest, not religion. It is the formal organization of religion, through a “priest” which makes it a villain of mankind as history shows… not personal spirituality, to which Thomas Jefferson refers in your quotes. Read them in context.

        Since you are religious, you might find it genuinely interesting to read Thomas Jefferson’s person version of the bible, which he authored.
        http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/JefJesu.html

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001640884810 Lance Brofman

        If Jefferson had acces to modern science as expoused by Darwin and Einstein, there is no doublt Jefferson would have been a full outspoken atheist, like any modern inteligent person is today. 2,000 years ago people had no idea of why the sky was blue or what garvity was, even 200 years ago people did not know how humans evolved from earlier species. Today there is no excuse to belive in any gods or imamginanry entiest like santa claus or the easter bunny

      • http://naver samurai

        You are full of crap Lance. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • cawun cents

    Yeah so gamers are the next in line after motion picture enthusiasts,and television gazers.
    Next you will be telling me their are gay people living in San Francisco!
    The horror!
    I never knew that!(move over Culkin! I need to make a point)
    Organized religion has been problematic since day one.
    Why?
    Holy than thou attitudes,mostly.
    Look….I am a firm believer in the propitiation of Christ for my sins.(yes I believe in Jesus Virginia!)
    I get that part.
    Some of us…for an unknown reason,think they can add to that.
    I remember things differently.
    As He was drawing His last breath,hanging there on that tree,He said,
    “It is finished.”
    I take that to literally mean that there is nothing I can add to it.
    His work completed.
    Plain and simple.To the point.
    Three words which echo through the consciousness of those who know what was done on their behalf.
    Three.
    An important number in Christian lore.
    Blood,water,Spirit.
    Faith,hope,love.
    Father,son,Holy Ghost.
    What other number is more Holy in all of scripture?
    None match three.
    Those words…it is finished….the most beautiful words ever spoken by mankind.
    And on the 3rd day……
    Nothing organized about that.
    No writing on the wall.
    No heeded verse needed.
    Simplicity et al.
    Sanctified,blessed,saved.
    By His work.
    Not my own.
    Who cares what organized religion means in the grand scheme?
    It means little compared to His work for me at Calvary.
    Cannot repay Him.
    Cannot go sinless.
    Cannot be perfect.
    Cannot know love.
    Without His work.Three simple words that I keep in mind at all times.
    -CC.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      Hmm, the gaming industry vilifies religion, yet glorifies war. As well; it glorifies murder, criminal life-style, rebellion, promiscuous lifestyle, vigilantism, torture, hate….ect, the exact opposite of what faith-based, religion would recommend. Well well, It appears that there may be a self-serving reason why the gaming industry would vilify religion. Seems rather obvious!

      • TML

        “It appears that there may be a self-serving reason why the gaming industry would vilify religion. Seems rather obvious!”

        Yep…

        create controversy = sell games

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        My apologies TML, i should have mentioned that not all in the gaming industry develop games that promote/glorify war, and social deviancy.

      • TML

        “My apologies TML,”

        None necessary

        “i should have mentioned that not all in the gaming industry develop games that promote/glorify war, and social deviancy.”

        And those games be the only ones my children are allowed to play ;)

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        And those games be the only ones my children are allowed to play.

        Music to my ears, TML; Cheers!!!

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      That Incredible Christian;

      The Christian believes that in Christ he has died, yet he is more alive than before and he fully expects to live forever. He walks on earth while seated in heaven and though born on earth he finds that after his conversion he is not at home here. Like the nighthawk, which in the air is the essence of grace and beauty but on the ground is awkward and ugly, so the Christian appears at his best in the heavenly places but does not fit well into the ways of the very society into which he was born.

      The Christian soon learns that if he would be victorious as a son of heaven among men on earth he must not follow the common pattern of mankind, but rather the contrary. That he may be safe he puts himself in jeopardy; he loses his life to save it and is in danger of losing it if he attempts to preserve it. He goes down to get up. If he refuses to go down he is already down, but when he starts down he is on his way up.

      He is strongest when he is weakest and weakest when he is strong. Though poor he has the power to make others rich, but when he becomes rich his ability to enrich others vanishes. He has most after he has given most away and has least when he possesses most.

      He may be and often is highest when he feels lowest and most sinless when he is most conscious of sin. He is wisest when he knows that he knows not and knows least when he has acquired the greatest amount of knowledge. He sometimes does most by doing nothing and goes furthest when standing still. In heaviness he manages to rejoice and keeps his heart glad even in sorrow.

      The paradoxical character of the Christian is revealed constantly. For instance, he believes that he is saved now, nevertheless he expects to be saved later and looks forward joyfully to future salvation. He fears God but is not afraid of Him. In God’s presence he feels overwhelmed and undone, yet there is nowhere he would rather be than in that presence. He knows that he has been cleansed from his sin, yet he is painfully conscious that in his flesh dwells no good thing.

      He loves supremely One whom he has never seen, and though himself poor and lowly he talks familiarly with One who is King of all kings and Lord of all lords, and is aware of no incongruity in so doing. He feels that he is in his own right altogether less than nothing, yet he believes without question that he is the apple of God’s eye and that for him the Eternal Son became flesh and died on the cross of shame.

      The Christian is a citizen of heaven and to that sacred citizenship he acknowledges first allegiance; yet he may love his earthly country with that intensity of devotion that caused John Knox to pray:

      ‘O God, give me Scotland or I die.’

      He cheerfully expects before long to enter that bright world above, but he is in no hurry to leave this world and is quite willing to await the summons of his Heavenly Father. And he is unable to understand why the critical unbeliever should condemn him for this; it all seems so natural and right in the circumstances that he sees nothing inconsistent about it.

      The cross-carrying Christian, furthermore, is both a confirmed pessimist and an optimist the like of which is to be found nowhere else on earth.

      When he looks at the cross he is a pessimist, for he knows that the same judgment that fell on the Lord of glory condemns in that one act all nature and all the world of men. He rejects every human hope out of Christ because he knows that man’s noblest effort is only dust building on dust.

      Yet he is calmly, restfully optimistic. If the cross condemns the world the resurrection of Christ guarantees the ultimate triumph of good throughout the universe. Through Christ all will be well at last and the Christian waits the consummation.

      • Deerinwater

        Sounds like a walking contradiction and a accident looking for a place to happen.

        Do you really feel like all this bundle of disjointed concepts is somehow ~Okay, Jay?

        I’m thinking that you didn’t write this but offered it to for us to muse over?

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        No deerinwater, i did not write this piece. Nor did i post it with the intention to confound, and confuse you, as it obviously did. I posted it simply for the consumption, and i’m sure, for the benefit, as well as, for the encouragement of Christians, posting on this site. If the article in any way offends you, might i suggest that you not, read it again! Smiley face…

      • Deerinwater

        Not at all, and not that I needed one but I found that it pretty well documents the suffering of the born again Christian and their actions and feeling. This is what the Church has done to them and has little to do with Christ teachings.

        That somehow, this discombobulated understanding of man and how he fits into the scheme of a universal plan is seen desirable and somehow peace and love might come of it, exceed the power of any faith of mortal man and little more then a decoration of war on his fellow man.

        I was just wondering if you seen it as “good” and I believe that you have answered my question with your curt response.

        Such matters need not be overly complicated, the child cannot deny his birth or his parent where it’s in the physical world or the world of the Spirit. We are a small part of two worlds united and manifested in the flesh. Salvation is but a carrot on the end of string,

        The Church loses us in a wilderness of confusions and then breaks out a map to show us the way home. After stumbling around on an extended 40 year camp-out, coming down out of the mountains and into the land of “giants” , kicking a little “Canaanite” butt seemed to be a smart thing to do.

      • cawun cents

        While I am the member of a church in an organized denomination,I am continually amazed and amused at how various members of my faith,consider control(their own)and contempt of others(because of their own perceived goodness),to be worthy of effort in an attempt to seem to be more righteous(in their own eyes).
        Christians can be some of the most cmpassionate,caring,and loving people.I have personally witnessed many miracles in this regard.
        Christians can also be very frightening when organized in groups with power over others put to the forefront.
        It is not necessarily Christianity that is held in contempt by most,rather the intent of people calling themselves Christians,and doing things as an organized religion,that Christians ought not to do.They are very self righteous in this effect.
        I would compre it to government saying that they are here to help.
        It is all fine and dandy until boundaries are overstepped because of the actions of those who seek absolute control over others.Christianity was never meant to be forced on others for the good of those doing the forcing,or the good of those being forced.
        That is why organized religion is seen as a bad thing.
        When a group of people decide that what they perceive as being good for the many,take poor action to make the conditions which they perceive as for the good of all,to be made law,or in effect the rule of law which they deem as being true and necessary,then all of the people who work under the name of said organized group,are then held in contempt by those who that group were intending to help.
        That is likely the reason that Ghandi stated,

        “I like your Christ,It is your Christians that I do not care for.”(paraphrasing)

        Some Christians fell it is necessary to instuct people in a certain way that does not always pertain to Biblical tenants on the matter.Likely they feel that it is permissable to break the rules to cause what they see as”good for all”,The tragedy being that it doesnt always go as planned and results to the opposite means end up happening.But that is not the real tragedy.The real tragedy is that because they arrogantly set forth to do things with good intent,and ignored the Biblical teachings on the matter,what they created was contempt for anyone associated with Christ,by name.In a vain attempt to be seen as good whether in their own eyes,that of other Christians,or Christ,they went out of their way to do so forsaking the rules,and causing contempt for the future messengers.
        That is why there is such a clamor over”organized religion”.
        It is because when we see that in order to effect a cause,one group lords it over another,there is certainly the tendency for contempt for that group.
        It always works that way.
        Instead of individually effecting change,a mutation of what is planned is brought forth,by those who seek power over the populace,ending in contempt for the messenger.
        You have then basically killed his ability to give the message.
        Does anyone see my somewhat long winded approach here?
        Dont mix poliitcs with religion on a grand scale.
        It wont work,and never did.
        If your organizational skills are flawed in any way,then you will only suceed in breeding contempt for those future messengers who might have the skills to make a change.
        But what do I know?
        Apparently very little…….
        -CC.

      • Deerinwater

        “But what do I know?
        Apparently very little…….
        -CC.”

        I disagree! I wish all Christian possessed your wisdom and understanding of such matters.

        only then might there be peace Sir.

  • i&etechie

    a game is a game, work is work, religion is religion, belief is belief, love is love, life is life, the sky is blue, water is wet, opinion is opinion. stop over analyzing everthing. just live and deal with the short time we live this life. it gets better…

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