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Van Jones And The American Dream

March 3, 2011 by  

Van Jones And The American Dream

As I watch events unfolding in Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, et al, I wonder how many Americans realize that government employees are demanding rights that exist only in their progressive minds. They have been led to believe that their desires are rights, and that includes the right to have the government take someone else’s property and give it to them simply because they want it.

In Wisconsin, the protesters keep insisting that Governor Scott Walker is trying to destroy their "collective bargaining rights." I give Walker an A thus far for his courageous stand on this issue. But I stop short of giving him an A+ because he has not made it clear that there is no such thing as a right to collectively bargain. Only individuals have rights, and, whether a religionist or atheist, any honest, rational person knows that these are rights that are self-evident and inherited at birth.

In fact, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness really comes down to a single right: The right to liberty — to be free to live your life as you please, so long as you do not violate anyone else’s right to do the same.

If one truly believes in the fundamental right to be free, then he is obliged to agree that an employer has a right to establish the rules regarding anything he owns, which includes banishing unions from his premises.

The problem with public-sector unions is that the employer is the government, so there’s an inherent conflict of interest. As Democrats have realized for decades, agreeing to the suicidal demands of public-sector unions can keep them in power.

The raucous protests in Wisconsin and elsewhere have emboldened the 30 percenters — the loud and foul Left that has fundamentally changed America from the land of the free to the land of soft socialism over the past 100+ years.

A good example of this was a column in The Huffington Post last week by that paragon of social justice, Van Jones. What got my attention was the title of the article: "Introducing the ‘American Dream’ Movement."

Below is a reprint of a part of that article where Comrade Jones listed "the steps needed to renew and redeem the American Dream."

  • Increase revenue for America’s government sensibly by making Wall Street and the super-rich pay their fair share.
    [My note: The term fair share is a meaningless, abstract, subjective term that is impossible to define. And nothing could be further from individual liberty than the belief that government revenues should be increased.]
  • Reduce spending responsibly by cutting the real fat — like corporate welfare for military contractors, big agriculture and big oil.
    [My note: I'm all for cutting corporate welfare, but the actual numbers make it clear that what needs to be cut even more is welfare to individuals and groups via hundreds of transfer-of-wealth programs.]
  • Simultaneously protect the heart and soul of America — our teachers, nurses and first responders.
    [My note: Teachers, nurses and first responders are not the heart and soul of America. Their jobs are important, to be sure. But the heart and soul of America is entrepreneurship — individuals willing to take risks and do whatever it takes to succeed. Entrepreneurs produce products and services that people want and, in so doing, create jobs and stimulate the economy — which is what makes it possible to pay teachers, nurses, and first responders.]
  • Guarantee the health, safety and success of our children and communities by leaving the muscle and bone of America’s communities intact.
    [My note: Guarantee success? Really? The rest is unintelligible rhetoric — kind of like "hope and change."]
  • Maintain the American Way by treating employees with dignity and respecting their right to a seat at the bargaining table.
    [My note: Employees do not have a "right to a seat at the bargaining table." However, every individual has a right to negotiate with any employer who, of his own free will, chooses to negotiate with him. In other words, a worker is free to sell his services in the open market — absent union or government coercion.]
  • Rebuild the middle class — and pathways into it — by fighting for a "made in America" innovation and manufacturing agenda, including trade and currency policies that honor American workers and entrepreneurs.
    [My note: To Van Jones' credit, he does allude to entrepreneurs, but the rest of his statement is unintelligible. Who has the moral authority to "build the middle class" — and what does it even mean? How do you fight for a "made in America" innovation and manufacturing agenda?]
  • Stand for the idea that, in a crisis, Americans turn TO each other — and not ON each other.
    [My note: Again, meaningless babble, though I admit that it might be a good idea to lecture progressives on cutting back on their hatemongering toward Tea Partiers, those who are financially successful and just about anyone who doesn't agree with their strong-armed tactics to bring about a redistribution-of-wealth society.]

Honesty compels me to admit that if communism is the American Dream to Van Jones, he has a right to define it that way. However, my own definition of the American Dream gets back to that one unalienable right I mentioned earlier — liberty — nothing more and nothing less. The problem with the Van Jones American Dream is that it requires that the liberty of some people must be violated in order to satisfy the desires of others. By contrast, in my American Dream, liberty must always be given a higher priority than all other objectives.

It is impossible to reconcile these two philosophical views, which is why it is imperative that the State governors and the 70 percent majority of citizens not compromise in the showdown that is now playing out across the nation. It is the first of many showdowns to come over the next two years, and, from a psychological standpoint, I believe that winning the first one is extremely important.

–Robert Ringer

Robert Ringer

is a New York Times #1 bestselling author and host of the highly acclaimed Liberty Education Interview Series, which features interviews with top political, economic, and social leaders. He has appeared on Fox News, Fox Business, The Tonight Show, Today, The Dennis Miller Show, Good Morning America, The Lars Larson Show, ABC Nightline, and The Charlie Rose Show, and has been the subject of feature articles in such major publications as Time, People, The Wall Street Journal, Fortune, Barron's, and The New York Times. To sign up for his one-of-a-kind, pro-liberty e-letter, A Voice of Sanity, Click Here.

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  • JeffH

    Nine years ago ago Van Jones was a Bay Area Alinskyite street communist. After hooking up with the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism, Democratic Socialists of America, former ’60s Maoists, Weather Underground supporters and Demos, he managed to land a job in the White House

    Twenty four years ago Barack Obama was a Chicago Alinskyite ‘community organizer.’ After hooking up with the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism, Democratic Socialists of America, former ’60s Maoists, Weather Underground supporters and Demos, he managed to land a job in the White House.

    Just a coincidence? Van Jones and Obama have worked with the same people all the way. It was far-left Oakland Democratic Rep. Barbara Lee, chair of the Congressional Black Caucus, a presidential campaign adviser to Obama, and is a friend of both Jones and Obama who most likely engineered Obama’s hiring of the communist in the first place. Van Jones and Lee have worked together on “green jobs” in Oakland.

    If being a communist isn’t enough, Van Jones is also a racist. He said that “the white polluters and the white environmentalists are essentially steering poison into the people-of-color communities, because they don’t have a racial justice frame.” Van Jones, a self-proclaimed communist and a fairly recent convert to the environmental cause, mixes his black socialism/communism with ecological views that can be traced directly back to the labyrinth of Nazi Germany of the 1930′s.

    Racial socialistic ethnicity and nature were at the heart of Nazi doctrine, and German environmentalism played an important role in what is today called the final solution. Adolf Hitler himself pointed out that “National Socialism is what Marxism might have been if it could have broken its absurd and artificial ties with a democratic order.”

    Thus, when Van Jones, the very man who was selected by Obama to help run America’s green economy, makes such racist environmental statements, the whiff of the Nazi cadaver is unmistakable, no matter what color of skin we’re talking about. Van Jones hook-up with Al Gore in the establishment of an organization called the “Green for All Academy,” and was also involved in another organization he founded back in 2005 called “Color for Change,” a black advocacy group, only digs the racist ecological hole even deeper. Jones’ mixture of communism, racism and environmentalism opens up the Nazi fascist Pandora’s Box all over again.

    As Americans ponder the building of this so-called green economy that will be funded by modern industry, they may want to seriously reconsider such plans.

    While Van Jones is no longer in the White House, he is keeping himself very visible with his visits to various Califoria Universities selling his “brand” of communist environmentalism.
    As the environmental movement has increasingly become both more international and totalitarian, they have developed contempt for people in general. With regard to personal attitudes, this is not much of a “progressive” improvement on its racist past.

    • George

      The sad thing is that the young people are taking the bait hook line and sinker.. They have no read idea what socialism and communism has done to people and how it kept them in poverty.. They aren’t old enough to know and they are not being taught real history. In a sense, the very thing they think is so great is the thing that’s keeping them down through the social programs that America has in place and that effects their daily lives whether they know it or not..

      • DaveH

        They could see the results of Communism with a short trip to Cuba. But wait, in their infinite wisdom, the Government has banned travel to Cuba for decades. Could it be that the leaders know people will not only realize what Communism does to a country’s economy, but they might also realize what Big Government of any kind does to a country’s economy?

        • Dean

          Excellent observation!

          • Mike in MI

            Yeabut, DaveH and Dean, -
            What are the chances that their observational skills and the logic(?) they have been taught would lead them to connect the one with the other.
            Making such connections is like expecting a kid to be put in a chemistry lab with a bunch of test tubes, chemicals and equipment (without previous lectures or a lab guide)…tell him to combine them and then give you a report on the stoichiometric relationships of the three unknowns you presented him with.
            Schools that don’t teach history or civics don’t produce cultural wizars.

          • Vicki

            What they are taught is “we must do “X” to save the planet”. They are carefully not taught what will happen to THEM. The term is of course “useful idiot”. They assume that they are of course the ones who will be in charge and or running things so even when they figure out the bad stuff they always assume it will happen to someone else. They think they are the cream of the intellectual crop. They are College students after all not one of those vocational students or school dropouts.

            One of the cute laughs that proponent leaders of communism have is the sound byte:

            “From each according to his ability. To each according to his need.”

            Human’s concept of need as we have seen in all the social engineering laws is way out of proportion to actual need.

            They assume that whatever they happen to desire is a “need”.

            Kinda like hope and change, none of these kids bothered to ask “What change”.

            If God were to sterilize the planet that would be change too.

        • meteorlady

          I always tell the liberal children to go and study Argentina and Cuba. They usually don’t, but hey, maybe a few will and will learn what happens when a government goes crazy.

          • Bus

            for a generation the children have been continually exposed to the “hate America” agenda. Since America is so bad they cast about for the better system and land on communism which promises equality for everyone. Just like the intellectuals of the 30′s thought that Stalin had hit upon the right formula, the children of the 60′s parents look to Micheal Moore to instruct them on the beauties of Cuban medical care.

        • Sam

          In response to DaveH…to add this…if one chooses to visit a communist country just remember…only observe and don’t spend your hard earned money there since it just goes back to their government and we don’t support communism!

          • DaveH

            If Communism is a losing policy (and it is) it will fall under its own weight with or without our help. In fact by giving the citizens there a glimpse of how it could be for them, they are more likely to throw off the shackles bestowed upon them by their Communist Leaders.

      • Stephan F.

        Well said George.

      • Radical RW’er

        Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. Ronald Reagan

        I think we have had a generation that fell asleep on the job in regards to protecting freedom. The 40 and under generation is ignorant about true liberty. BTW I’m 37.

        • Jana

          Radical RW’er,
          You are so right. We have a generation of parents that have not been communicating with their children. They have been too busy earning a living and paying off debts that they shouldn’t have gotten into, to even have decent relationships with their children. Our children today hardly know how to carry on a conversation. Schools aren’t teaching history, and sadly we are losing our children to the propaganda of Socialism and the surmise that if it feels good, do it.
          It is not the fault of the children, it is our fault, as we are the adults.
          I did not have to go to war to understand what the war was about. My parents are the ones who taught me patriotism and how to be proud to be an American.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            We have a generation of kids of hippies, who pretty much had no respect for authority and have conveyed that well to their children, and to the generation that immediately followed them, and our leaders are pretty much made up of these people, who care only for themselves and what they can accumulate, and they whole heartedly reject God, reject caring for others, and money is their god and thats all they care about. No wonder we are in such a mess. Not to say all are like that, but pretty much those in government control sure are. The hippies had a good idea, but in taking mass amounts of drugs and alcohol, and having sex with anyone that breathed, didnt accomplish anything but being a detriment to this country.

        • BobBur

          Perhaps many have taken freedom for granted. But have you noticed the age of the soldiers. I don’t think they have fallen asleep and I think they understand the price of freedom. Don’t sell them short because they have to follow the lead of their commander in cheif.

          • Jana

            BobBur,
            You are so right. We do have a lot of good young people out there too.
            My bad, that I did not bring that up. Yes, our soldiers are volunteers, and they are definitely some of the finest young men and women out there who are serving our country.

      • David

        George you are correct about what young people are not being taught. My pet peeve is Liberal college professors filling their young brains with the Liberal Utopia idea, among other things. It is tantamount to brainwashing. Youngsters in college,who have been brought up Conservative are usually bombarded also by students who have been Liberally brainwashed, who are trying to bring them into their cause. A Power of the peers situation. The students from High School and down are being taught a different version of history than I learned 50 years ago. One of the differences is, they are not being taught about the many black men who were politicains and statesmen. I heard of one man who was trying to fight this Liberal indoctrination, on TV, but I don’t recall his name.

        • Kate8

          David – I think you are referring to Glenn Beck. He did several shows on black patriots who helped in the founding and building of America.

          • Vigilant

            Yes, Kate8, and the author whose work he highlighted was David Barton. The book, “Setting the Record Straight: American History in Black & White,” is an excellent read. It exposes the Democrats for who they really are.

        • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

          David, Home schooling works, as well as organizing and establishing Conservative Charter Schools. The latter is not as complicated as you may think. Give it a try, excellent options.

      • Mike in MI

        Correct, George, the kids (to a great – but not total – extent) have been sorely cheated by us in the “Boomer and post-Boomer” generations,

        It has become quite evident, to me anyways (and, granted, I could be way wrong), that a strong teaching (mostly by personal parental love and example) of Biblically expressed pictures of Right and Wrong is ecessary for the smooth continuance of any culture. Without that children have no discipline, no base from which to guide the choices that take them from point (A) to point (B) in attainment of their goals and life plans.
        If one isn’t taught those things and the truth that there is a personification of right(eousness) and of evil it will ordinarily require a whole handful of decades to come to that realization as a result of experience. Sadly, it is not self-evident why a single parent family is insufficient to instill such concepts.
        The entity behind undisciplined, “let-them-learn-by-expressing-their-own-personalities” theories abhors “…fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord”. That entity abhors it because disciplined minds are far less apt to become embroiled in the wholely self-seeking and egocentism of the “Me Generation”.
        But, what do we do at this point??? How to avoid the chaos unleashed by unbridled selfishness?

        • Kate8

          Mike in MI – This is exactly why communists always set out to destroy the family and traditions in a culture they seek to conquer.

          They want the youth to look to government for support in all things, rather than parents and family.

          • Mike in MI

            Hi, K88 -
            Done a marvelous job…wouldn’t you say? At least for what they want to achieve.

          • Vicki

            Kate8 says:
            “They want the youth to look to government for support in all things, rather than parents and family.”

            Should the statement include God? As in “…rather than God, parents and family”. One of the nice things about including God is that if he/she exists as many of us believe he/she will outlast our parents and sometimes our family. It’s good to have backups.

          • Kate8

            Vicki – Of course, God first and foremost.

            We were discussing the importance of family, but God is the first to be thrown out. Without God, the family dissolves next.

            The point is, they want loyalty to none but government.

          • get right

            Kate8, we don’t have to worry about communists as we have the conservatives stripping Americas of their rights. Has it occurred to you that only the communist countries don’t have unions??? Heh, a little food for thought.

          • http://Charter Glenn Byron Jones

            Mike,,, I think that your observations are quite correct and the people that are asleep at the switch with theri heads in the sand will never wake up as it is apparent by the Osterage that puts his head in the sand but leaves his but up to be eaten by the lions ,,, so it is with liberals and Socialests. What do you think will , or ,would happen to the leaders that has staged this feasko. If thay are cought by the people thay have betrayed ,,, thay will be killed and if thay are cought by the people that would take over our countery ,,, thay will be killed. After all thay are the leaders that NO socialest or Comunist Leaders want. Becouse what someone takes appart ,, it is forsure that thay will know how to put the thing back together agein and NO COMUNIST LEADERS WOULD WANT THAT.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            They have sure gotten all those on the left to seek to live on government handouts and be dependant upon them, there is no doubt about that. Not sure how that works, that all these super filthy rich democrats, can convince the poor and out of work that they are like them and for them, and these people believe them and vote for them, when they are filthy rich and dont give a squat about them, and only want them to remain dependant on them, and the ugly circle continues. Why they cannot see it, I dont know.

      • BDOG

        DAVE, SO THE COMUNIST SAY WE HAVE TO CAPTURE THE MINDS OF THE CHILDREN.LOOK UP THE COMUNIST AGENDA OF 1963,IT’S THEIR PLAYBOOK MOSTLEY OF WHAT THEY HAVE ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED. INFILTRATE THE MEDIA(cnn,cbs) THE SCHOOLS THROUGH TEACHERS UNIONS,YOU GET THE PICTURE. I HAD TO STUDY AMERICANISM VS COMUNISM MANDATORY TO GRADUATE .KIDS NOW DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS.

        • Al B Tross

          You couldn’t be more wrong.
          There is no communist agenda in the USA, there is only a Authoritarian Corporate agenda, playing the American citizen as a fool and pawn.
          Capitalism is a failure, and they need our labor, as cheap as possible to make any more wealth. Unions, and hard working Americans are being scapegoated by the Corporations.

    • Jovianus

      Increase revenue for America’s government sensibly by making Wall Street and the super-rich pay their fair share.
      [My note: The term fair share is a meaningless, abstract, subjective term that is impossible to define. And nothing could be further from individual liberty than the belief that government revenues should be increased.]
      (Reality: The recent tax bill extending the Bush giveaways for two more years by crating a special tax catagory for the wealthy cost us $68 Billion a year. The entire tax cut costs the Treasury $300 bil./year. Taking away the special privileged catagory for the wealthy? Add back $68 bil/year.)

      Reduce spending responsibly by cutting the real fat — like corporate welfare for military contractors, big agriculture and big oil.
      [My note: I'm all for cutting corporate welfare, but the actual numbers make it clear that what needs to be cut even more is welfare to individuals and groups via hundreds of transfer-of-wealth programs.]
      (Reality: Eliminating subsidies to Big Ag [not counting subsidies to farmily farms] would save $60 bil/year. Eliminating direct subsidies to Big Oil saves $98 bil/year. In other words, cut the subsidies to Big Ag and Big Oil ALONE saves $158 bil/year. Not exactly chicken feed. And that’s not getting to the remainder of the corporate welfare program)

      Simultaneously protect the heart and soul of America — our teachers, nurses and first responders.
      [My note: Teachers, nurses and first responders are not the heart and soul of America. Their jobs are important, to be sure. But the heart and soul of America is entrepreneurship — individuals willing to take risks and do whatever it takes to succeed. Entrepreneurs produce products and services that people want and, in so doing, create jobs and stimulate the economy — which is what makes it possible to pay teachers, nurses, and first responders.]
      (Reality: The working man is the heart and soul of America. Teachers, “first responders”, nurses, the blue collar, etc. They produce America’s wealth and they consume much of the produced product. To select as the author does one over the othr creates the not so subtle hint of class envy and class welfare. It begins the classic attack of the wealthy and far right on the working man….you are not wrothy of having the same rights as others so some are more equal than others and “we” are more equal than most…and you are not “we”, you are ‘them”]

      Guarantee the health, safety and success of our children and communities by leaving the muscle and bone of America’s communities intact.
      [My note: Guarantee success? Really? The rest is unintelligible rhetoric — kind of like "hope and change."]
      (Reality: OK..so leave out ‘success”. I agree that we should guarantee the health and safety of Americans.)

      Maintain the American Way by treating employees with dignity and respecting their right to a seat at the bargaining table.
      [My note: Employees do not have a "right to a seat at the bargaining table." However, every individual has a right to negotiate with any employer who, of his own free will, chooses to negotiate with him. In other words, a worker is free to sell his services in the open market — absent union or government coercion.]
      (Reality: The author goes off into lala land here with psycho babble bordering on absolute loony tunes. So his premise is that Americans do not have the right to assemble as a group to further the group’s interest. That inequities of wealth and materials creating an unequal bargaining condition cannot be leveled where the working man can stand as economic equal to the corporate interests to negotiate the value of the sweat and labor of the employee. As recognized by the Supreme Court …Americans have the RIGHT to negotiate as a group. The author wants to apply Rights selectively to whatever interests he favors, and whom he dices is unworthy of a Right is denied one)

      Rebuild the middle class — and pathways into it — by fighting for a “made in America” innovation and manufacturing agenda, including trade and currency policies that honor American workers and entrepreneurs.
      [My note: To Van Jones' credit, he does allude to entrepreneurs, but the rest of his statement is unintelligible. Who has the moral authority to "build the middle class" — and what does it even mean? How do you fight for a "made in America" innovation and manufacturing agenda?]
      (Reality: Try cutting subsidies to companes who outsource American jobs, instead implementing a tax on those who ship jobs overseas. Current tax policy since 2003 is that moving a job overseas is directly subsidized 33%. Not counting he loss of the job to our society. Instead of targeting Big Corporate America to be paid by our hard earned monies…limit the size of the recipient tso the “little guy’ gains the benefit of subsidy and tax relief…not the mega rich and powerful being the sole recipients.)

      Stand for the idea that, in a crisis, Americans turn TO each other — and not ON each other.
      [My note: Again, meaningless babble, though I admit that it might be a good idea to lecture progressives on cutting back on their hatemongering toward Tea Partiers, those who are financially successful and just about anyone who doesn't agree with their strong-armed tactics to bring about a redistribution-of-wealth society.]
      (reality; The author descends into the world of hate and sarcasm …)

      Now the question to ask yourself is…how much of this psycho babble written by the author is believable and supported by reality? Once again, the far right’s solution to our problems is either unrealisitic or nonexistent. Failiure and refusal to man up to help solve America’s problems they created…that’s the real message the Far Right is giving. They’re running, hiding, and making weak excuses for their failures.

      • jvr

        Well stated and supported.

        • eddie47d

          Good way to put it Jovianus. Some like Robin think everyone is stealing from her and taking away her rights. Not true. Those like Jeff try to tie everyone in as a commie or nazi and pile label on top of label. Instead of slandering someone once he double and triple demonizes them with irrational words and innuendos. How about this Jeff: Capitalistic pond scum carpetbagging corporate fascist goons are taking over America. That is how you present your conversations, just to show you how you come across.I guess we could call them Capitalistic Commies; You know,A few controlling the masses. Now if you want a rational discussion Jeff then lay off of the right wing kool aid.

          • Kate8

            eddie – You are right. These corporate entities have taken over America, and they’ve used the Democrat party to do it.

            The R’s are infiltrated and corrupted also, but the D’s were the main vehicle.

            It amazes me, with all the information available on all these people, you refuse to see corruption on the Left, and continue to vote for them.

            …doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. Like Hope and Change.

          • Mike in MI

            K88 -
            Why shouldn’t eddie47 be in favor of the left? They promise him everything he wants to hear (because they promise everybody everything everybody wants.) Then, as they expostulate their litany of promises that they are going to GIVE, the listener picks out of the garbage bag of goodies which ever things he, individually, wants. Then, he goes to the proper government office and picks out what (on his list) may be being distributed – as long as the supply lasts. Of course the clerk appointed to pass the trash tells him, “Just keep coming, Magnificent, Exalted Leader has made it policy that this thing you want will occur. Um-m-m, no I can’t tell you when or call you on the day it arrives – but, you’ll get your chance like everybody else…equally just and fair.” “MABEL, MAKE SURE to hide that box of Twinkies we pulled out under the sink.”

          • Mike in MI

            p.s. – “…Twinkies and diabetic supplies…”

          • JIBBS

            Don’t worry eddie, the government will take care of you.

          • Kate8

            Mike in MI – On C2C last night a doctor was talking about how our MIC has been using electronics, via TV, computer and other appliances, to induce disease in the population via emitting frequencies. Digestive upset, headaches, anxiety, diabetes, cancer…and especially mental illness and mind-control…the list is endless.

            The CFL bulbs also promote the growth of pathogens and emit “dirty electricity”, harmful frequencies.

            What they are doing is experimenting on us in preparation for total control. We won’t even really need a chip. It’s everywhere.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        JO.. As usual your rant is ridiculous. It would be a near perfect world if we could just separate the liberals from the conservatives. The United States has already proven that capitalism works and we have already seen from history that socialism doesn’t. How do people who live in America come to believe that our current system is wrong and not working? Maybe all those who think socialism is so great need to experience it first hand.

        • Jovianus

          Robin…would you agree that capitalism was first detailed by Adam Smith in “Wealth of Nations”? Would you agree John Locke was accurate in his portrayal of human political development? Would you agree that both Smith and Locke are cited numerous times by the drafters of the Dec. of Ind., the US Consitution, and the Federalist Papers?

          If so, you write inopposite of that.

          • chow

            I don’t know what you’re talking about but I’ve read the constitution and the declaration of independence and these people are not mentioned not even in the footnotes.

            Perhaps this people you mentioned were the original communist but ignored by the founding fathers.

          • Thamera

            Jovianus: I agree with Ellen; there is so much wrong with your post, and not enough time to debate it. Just have to wonder what your background is and who was educating you.

          • JIBBS

            You should be President of the SHEEPLE Club. I really don’t think you are aware of what you are saying. Where did find the names you refer to, and who are they ?

          • Vigilant

            Jovi Anus,

            Your obscure references to Smith and Locke make no sense at all. Explain yourself, sonny.

            Locke’s Second Essay Concerning Civil Government was a powerful work that laid the basis for the Declaration of Independence’s statemment of Natural Rights. Jefferson tweaked Locke’s original phrase of “life, liberty and property” to what we find in the Declaration. Locke’s advocacy of private property was so strong that he felt there was a compelling need to express that government’s MOST important function was to protect it.

            Smith’s work also extolled the virtues of free market economies, which he described as more productive and beneficial to their societies than other economic systems. In 1776, when “Wealth of Nations” was published, no one had invented the terms “economics” or “capitalism,” Smith talked about a “system of perfect liberty” or “system of natural liberty.”

            So the question remains: what are you getting at? Everything espoused by Robin is entirely compatible with both Smith and Locke. And, in Robin’s favor, everything espoused by Smith and Locke are antithethical to that skewed communist cesspool you call your “mind.”

            Honestly, any one who can support Van Jones’ communist philosophy is certifiably wacko, denies the voluminous history of the success of capitalism, and would destroy this great nation. You, eddie and jvr are as un-American as they come.

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            Jo… When all else fails… baffle them with bullshit, huh?

          • Vigilant

            Jovi, as usual, throws out a bucket of manure and, when asked to explain himself, leaves the scene of the crime. What a coward!

        • get right

          Robin, your logic makes no sense. We gave Oil companies 53 billion in subsidies from 2005 to 2009 while they made 485 billion in profits. WHat kind of logic is that? Our corporations are the least taxed in the civilized world. http://www.ctj.org/pdf/oecd07.pdf
          http://www.corporations.org/welfare/
          That 53billion was just the oil companies. Give me one good reason to subsidize any company who has been in business over five years and is making a profit.

          • Jana

            get right,
            Almost anything the government gets involved with doesn’t make sense. Ergo, the need for smaller government and more responsive representatives.

          • Vigilant

            Get right tries to pull a fast one. “Our corporations are the least taxed in the civilized world.”
            http://www.ctj.org/pdf/oecd07.pdf
            http://www.corporations.org/welfare/

            The first URL is a classic example of lying with statistics. It looks at taxes as a percentage of GDP. It does NOT look at tax rates, and guess what? Of ALL industrialized nations, US corporate tax rate is second only to Japan. Japanese business pays 39.5% and US businesses pay about 39.4%

            The second URL was last modified in 2002, for God’s sake.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          It would be great if we could separate the two, maybe fence off California and a few other states, and let them have all the liberalism they want, and have all those left wing liberals who live on government handouts and refuse to work, to all go to these liberal states, and keep them there. Then the rest of us who work for a living, can live in our states, and free up the billions these no doers suck out of society, and there will be plenty to go around to make life all better for us who do not believe in the government handouts keeping people dependant on them. Put them all in a few states, and watch them be bankrupt and have nothing, while the rest of us will prosper, as we will allow the free market enterprise to work, free from government interference, and free from worthless people sponging off the system because they feel the government should take care of them. It would be great.

      • Grinch

        As usual, your missing his point completely. First, with regards to your silly tax argument……your saying the “rich” don’t pay taxes, don’ pay their fair share already? Huh? Who do you think funds this country my friend? Teachers and union workers? ….still laughing. God forbid we live in a country where we don’t absolutely stick it to the rich and give them 0 motivation to create and take risks. Absolutely absurd that anyone thinks increasing taxes on the very same folks that fund our government is acceptable. Do you not understand something like 51% of the population doesn’t even pay taxes! So, now we should sock it to the rich so their marginal tax rates approache 50-60 to 70%…………are you f$#%$^* kidding me?

        Im sure they will remain motivated to take risks knowing they have to give 70% their income to fund entitlement programs and folks who believe they “have the right” to take money that does not belong to them. I guess, according to you, the rich are supposed to fund and maintain the public sector’s expectation and “right” that all they have to do is wake up, go to work, and all their needs are taken care of. What a Country! Grow up Sir. Nothing comes for free, no worker should be entitled to ANYTHING that causes the remainder of society to foot the bill to their detriment, which is now currently bankrupting this Country.

        You are ignorant to use the very simplistic argument that “we should take it from evil corporations and the rich” mentality. Such a typical and simplistic leftist argument. Teacher and public sector employees have a right to health care, full benefits, a pension that is unsustainable and inflated wages compared to their private sector counterparts? Really? All Governor Walker was asking them to do is contribute more to their own pensions and benefit package to ease the burden on the state. But, yet, we should continue to take and tax from the true earners to sustain this? Yeah, that’s certainly fair.

        Look, I make great money as a small business owner. I stayed up every night late and woke up early to sell my product and services. I missed out on many things in life trying to accomplish my dream and build something from the ground up. I ruined a relationship with a great girl, went bankrupt, almost lost my home, lost every penny I had ever saved to try and pursue my dream. Sir, do you have any earthy idea how much time, energy and determination this took? Public sector employees are home by 5 or 6pm and union workers by 3pm in many instances and don’t take a SHRED of work home with them. They don’t go to Chamber of Commerce events and other functions on nights and weekends. No, that is called “overtime” for these folks, for which we have the pleasure of paying them double! They don’t have payrolls to worry about, customers, accounting, marketing, ordering office supplies…….taking massive risks. I had no life for a few years, suffering and struggling to make ends meet while trying to pursue my dream of INDEPENDENCE and SELF RELIANCE. Just like I was taught by my immigrant grandparents.

        Now you and the rest of your kind want me to pay much more in income taxes (my home state just raised income taxes by 75%)and essentially take what I have earned to fund their expectations. Let me see if I can understand this-I work my ass off to build a business that employs people and provides a great product that helps people. So now I am supposed to let my federal and state government convince me that I should reduce my standard of living through taxation to equal a public sector employee who takes no risks and works half as hard as I do (I am being generous when I say half). Huh? I should work 20 times as hard and take all the risk to achieve the same lifestyle as someone who just gets to get up and go to work? Really?

        That is exactly what is happening to us small to medium sized business owners. I am not ultra rich. This affects me and massive tax increases decrease my earnings and lifestyle dramatically. You don’t understand this?

        You don’t suppose that after awhile I might realize that its better to shut my business down, avoid all of that liability and taxation and not put myself through all of this? Why? I already made my money and now people like you want to keep taking more and more of it. Why should I continue to exert so much energy and sign so more personal guarantees putting my family’s assets at risk? Why should I do so when I can now just get a job with the government that provides me with the same lifestyle effectively?

        This has become a philosophical, fundamental difference between our Society. This is so apparent now and it has divided us completely down the middle. There are literally two classes of people now in America…….those of us who cannot stand the concept of taking a handout like our immigrant forefathers………..and people like you who believe that public sector employees are entitled to a guaranteed way of life at the expense of others. Yes, it really has become this simple.

        We live in a nation of absolute fools and I am pissed off people such as you exist and live among us.

        • Ellen

          This is excellent.

        • Lovinit

          Bravo !!!! Bravo !!!!

        • Kate8

          Grinch – Excellent post. Sadly, just as they failed to comprehend Mr. Ringer’s article, the Left won’t comprehend yours, either.

          Government has succeeded in retarding emotional development among those on the Left. They never grow beyond age 5, where their world consists only of getting what they want no matter what others must go through to get it to them. Children always see others as responsible for providing for them, that they are entitled just because they exist (which is true for ACTUAL chidren), and they have no way of relating to someone who builds a life from the bottom up. All they see is the end result, and they want some of it.

          How comforting it is to imagine a life where no one will ever suffer, lack or feel left out, no matter how one chooses to live it. How warm and fuzzy to see government as an all-compassionalte daddy who will never allow you to fall.

          This is the indoctrinated mindset, and these are damaged people, to be sure. They also don’t understand that they were damaged in order to fulfill an agenda, and that, sooner or later, the fountain dries up and reality sets in.

          This is the lure of communism, by any name. The promise of Utopia, that all will be provided if we are obedient children. But it’s a false promise, a deal with the devil, that will have, as it always has, only one outcome.

          • Stephan F.

            Very astute & well said Kate. Me thinks you hit the sweet spot and knocked it out of the park.

        • Sunnie

          You’ve said it all – clearly, concisely, passionately; and I (along with a multitude) am in complete agreement. How much longer will it take before the public sector realizes that the golden goose (private sector) is dead? Once free enterprise is dead, so is the public dole. There won’t be anyone left to give them what they’ve demanded so vocally, and in some cases, violently.

        • meteorlady

          Most excellent! Thanks….

        • Lastmanstanding

          Grinch. You have done an OUTSTANDING JOB of describing what I have been feeling for years! My wife and I are self-employed, we stand with you!!!

        • Mary

          Well said, Grinch, I hope you don’t mind if I use some of your words to say to my family to open their minds about the people that think this way.

          God Bless America!

        • Lastmanstanding

          I had to back and read your post again, truly and honestly from the heart! Something that a lib/prog just cannot understand, because it is not about them and their ignorant ways.

          Would you like to run for president in 2012??? It’s that kind of simple logic that true Americans are screaming for…A platform as simple as this would get you elected. People are sick and tired of the bs that is going on. What happened to “people helping people and truth”?

          Soon o/socialist/communist/muslimradical without a US birthcert. is going to start campaigning (not that he hasn’t stopped yet!) for another term. Rumour has it that he will spend nearly $1,000,000,000.00 TRYING to get re-elected. Of course that will probably be on the low side. This is a f*****G crime in itself!!!

          Whoever runs against barry in 2012 should have a copy of your post. It is how alot of us feel whether you are a business owner or not.

          Finally, in the nwo or wetf they call it, a speech/opinion like yours will be against the law. You will be imprisoned or killed…I don’t think alot of us will just sit idly by and watch it happen.

          Thanks again. God bless you and your family.

        • David

          Grinch, what Jovianus has written is typical Liberal psycho-babble. He may be Soros inspired or financed. Soros is behind a lot of this bunk.

        • Mike in MI

          Grinch – You forgot, dang it!
          Why didn’t you point out that besides that “…50-60 or 70%…” the government promises (m-m-m, threatens) that non-compliance with one or two of their regulations or restrictions on your business WILL result in audits, public disclosure/expose’/humiliation, judicial action, large (often discriminatory) fines, interest and penalties and/or prison time, psychological re-education/castration in order for you to realize the gravity of your revolt against the social order and Manificent-Exalted Leader.

        • JIBBS

          Very well said, I wish there were more people like you.dam, you just about made me cry.

        • get right

          Grinch, your facts are flat wrong!! http://www.ctj.org/pdf/oecd07.pdf
          You must be watching too much Fox.

        • get right

          Grinch, you oblivous can’t read or comprehend. Middle class America is funding this country. You just hate it when the facts prove you wrong don’t you?

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Thank you sir, your a great American. I too am tired and pissed off at these liberals demonizing success, and wanting to reward failure. They fail to see that there are some of us, who work our butts off, have a vision, put our money where our mouth is, and make an investment and take the risk, and through hard work it pays off. Then those who are lazy and dont want to work, want us to be punished for being successful. It pisses me off that they are so envious that they want the successful punished. Then they want free government handouts to lazy bums who wont even look for a job. They obviously do not know, that these same so called rich are the ones that pay the lions share of tax money in this country, along with generation billions in payroll taxes for the jobs they have created. These losers cant see that either. If they had it their way, all of them would close down and cease to exist, then just what would they do? What would they do? The government wouldnt have any money to give them their handouts, because there would be no business paying 80 percent of the countries taxes. They are just to blind to see the truth, and its right in front of them. And I also, am sick and tired of hearing the losers whine and point fingers at the successful and demonize them. It is un-acceptable behavior to say the least.

      • Ellen

        Jovanius, there is so much wrong with your diatribe, so I’m only going to address the tax comment. There is a huge difference between the ultra rich (Bill Gates) and what Obama calls rich ($250,000). Those Bush tax cuts relieve the absurd 39.4% tax bracket that Clinton created. These ‘rich’ already get almost no tax breaks – no write offs for education, etc. The few write offs they get (mortgage interest and property taxes) get reduced on a scale as their income rises. Obama wants to eliminate the mortgage interest deduction for everyone. This directly impacts the middle class, as the ‘rich’ basically don’t get the write off anyway. So much for all Obama does to punish those rich and help the middle class. He preys on the ignorant.

        • meteorlady

          Eliminating the mortgage deduction is the final nail in the housing market. If that were so, based on the losses in home value over the last few years, it would be better to just rent and let someone else be responsible for upkeep.

          • get right

            meteorlady, the republicans don’t want us to have homes, education, fair pay, healthcare, clean water or air. They seem to forget that some repubs are middle class Americans.

          • Jana

            get right,

            Get real!

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Get right, couldnt be more wrong. The Republicans want us all to have homes, they just want us to be responsible and pay for them, unlike Bill Clinton, who set up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac funds, and had the government guarantee bank loans to people to buy houses, you know, to live the American dream of owning a home, who no way in hell could pay it back, and they sank the banks. If a guy dont have a job, and he comes in for a 200,000.00 loan to buy a house, sorry, any sense at all says no, no, no, you cant possible pay this back. But Billy and the dems, said, yes, yes, yes, dont worry, be happy, and they collapsed the banking industry to a point. And Gee get right, those people were kicked out of those houses because they didnt pay for them, so I guess judging by your own merits, the democrats are the ones that dont want people to have houses, because they lent them money to buy it, thinking they were in, then kicked thier butts out. Yeah, its pretty clear then, that the democrats dont want people to have houses. Your assertation is stupid and uneducated and totally unfounded, as are the silly things I have said. But at least what I said, actually did happen, and it was actually caused by the democrats, so maybe its not such a silly statement after all, as they did lead people to believe they could have a home, then booted them out. Im just saying……………

      • JUKEBOX

        Once again, the left wing, liberal, Progressive Socialists fail to realize that ALL TAXES, (REPEAT, ALL TAXES) are paid by the end consumer of any product or service. You people are too blind to see this, just like you love to call any opponent of your radical agenda “RACIST”. If we are such a bad, racist nation, tell me why so many different races are willing to face arrest and prosecution by slipping into our country illegally.

        • eddie47d

          Why do people flock to Yemen,Libya and Saudi Arabia when they are totalitarian dictatorships. It’s called jobs and has nothing to do with racism. No different than why they come to America. They want work even when they know the racism sometimes comes later.

          • Vicki

            Just another eddie47d fast factoid. Cute but obviously false.

          • eddie47d

            What is false?

          • JeffH

            Vicki, of course eddie has generalized by using the term “people”…and I’m sure he can provide some references for all of these available jobs in Yemen,Libya and Saudi Arabia that “people” are flocking to…must be sheeple jobs…ya think?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I really dont know of anyone who would flow into Libya, being that all Americans are being told to get out if they can. Any anyone who would roll into Yemen is absolutely nuts, no doubt about it. And it is totally clear that Saudi Arabia hates us, as all the 9-11 killers were Saudi’s, and almost everytime they catch someone here, they are a Saudi. The press might tell us they are our friends, but they are only using us to keep themselves secure. The are not our friends, and I for one, will never go there, and have never wanted to, and I dont exactly see people flowing in droves to these 3 places as you say, so again, I find you to be lying through your teeth, just like a good little liberal. Now get back in your house, your ankle bracelet just set off the signal as you roamed to far from the door. Maybe someone can come over and cash your unemployment check and go to the store with your food stamps for you today. Eh?

        • get right

          Jukebox, have you ever read the Constitution?? Article 1 Section 8 Clause1 gives power to the Congress to “impose taxes, duties, imports and excises” and it shall be uniform across the country. Our forefathers knew that we would need taxes of different types or they wouldn’t have made that the first item to be addressed. We have the lowest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. Get some info, and then realize when 2/3 of corporations don’t pay at all, you and I are picking up that portion.

          • concerned grandma

            Hold on there – get right.
            Are you spewing a bald face lie or just plain dumb. Even the US Treasury Secretary, Tax Cheat Timothy Geithner appeared before Congress on Feb. 16th saying that the US should cut it’s corporate tax rate by more than 5%, as the US rate is the 2nd highest in the Industrialized world ranking right behind Japan by less than 1/4th of a point.

          • get right

            Concerned, they would have to cut it if every corporation paid taxes!!2/3 don’t pay!!

          • get right

            They wouldn’t have to pay. oops made error.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Time to call you out on this one pal. You tell me one, just one, and only one Corporation that doesnt pay taxes. Give me their name, and I will prove you wrong. Bring it.

      • chow

        How did the tax cut cost you anything, the money belongs the individual business. Your statement is akin to a robber in a liquor store deciding not to take the money and tells the owner I’m giving you a break by not taking the money and I’m taking the loss of my revenue by not taking it.

        • Bruce D.

          Nice post Chow.

      • WayneT

        Jov, If all the communist, liberals and Muslims have it so darn good in these other countries why are they always wanting to come to this country? If you think this is such a bad country, and all these other Socialistic countries are so good, I’m sure you could get yourself a one way pass out of the United States. I wonder why Jov continues to stay in this country with our Capitalistic system since he is so unhappy witn it.

        • Mary

          You go! Wayne T That is what I say, you don’t like it here in the US, get the hell out.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          You are correct sir. Just as in if Canada’s socialized medicine system is so good, why do so many spend their own money, and come down to the United States, and pay for medical care here out of their own pockets, when it is free in Canada? Doesnt that speak volumes about it?

      • Dale on the left coast

        Jovi . . . the top 10% of US earners

      • Conservative at Birth

        Ignorance of the facts and distortions of the truth is the progessive totalitarian mentality. I choose liberty over slavery. I will not be your slave. Be prepared for a fight. I am well armed with 10,000 rounds and friends to back be up, when you come to steal my property.

      • meteorlady

        Did you know that we have the second highest corporate tax rates in the world today? Exactly what “subsidies” do businesses get for taking the work out of this country? It’s my impression that they don’t pay until the bring the end product back in. We have mountains of crushing regulations passed at the behest of special interest groups that will gain from them? Is it any wonder they are moving out of here? Our dollar is much less valuable than it was 3 years ago and the Feds are still printing…..

        As for the “rich” tax break… as a small business owner I sometimes park my “profits” in order to make a little more money while contemplating expansion or hiring another worker. That is the tax break you speak of, capital gains. I’m not “rich” and I take a lot of risk running my business. Sometimes I have had to actually take out a second mortgage to keep the business going and make payroll. I value my workers and pay a decent wage, plus health care (as long as I can afford it… my premiums just went up 17% because of the added mandatory coverage in the new health care law), and I provide a safe work environment.

        The bottom line here is that my employees are my most valuable asset and I work hard to keep them. I have spent time working for corporations and yes, they do like to underpay, but when you have glut in laborers, you have lower wages. Just a fact of life. If we could get rid of the illegals, and stop importing uneducated foreign immigrants, our labor market would dwindle to a manageable level and salaries would rise again, along with the tax base.

        • Vicki

          Well done Meteorlady. And you are a shining example of what people could have/should have done instead of forming unions and bullying corporations and other workers.

          Yours is the American way and I salute you.

        • get right

          metorlady, wrong, wrong, wrong…http://www.ctj.org/pdf/oecd07.pdf
          Show me your facts.

        • concerned grandma

          Good post – Meteorlady. Your blog is spot on. A side note, as a engineering professional for a large corporation, my health care premium increased 60% while my doctor visit copayments went up an additional 25%. ObamaCare is really bringing the cost of health care down. Standard liberal Democrat lies.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            When fully in effect, Obamacare WILL, raise everyone’s premiums, lessen everyones coverage, and many who could not afford health insurance before, will now be forced to BUY IT from a democrat related Insurance company, because that is how they set it up. There is only one aspect of society that will benefit, and that is the lazy slug who refuses to work, as they now will be given more free stuff, to reward them for bad behavior. Those of us that work, we will all pay dearly. Thank you to the illiterate uneducated Americans that voted the democrats into power. You better hope the Republicans or Libertarians gain power and undo this, or you will be paying also, that is, the few of you liberals that actually work for a living, as we all know who all the homeless and the unemployed voted for, and it is no secret.

      • The Little Guy

        Reality 1: The tax cut – passed by the liberal left after howling at Bush for doing the same thing – cost nothing. It’s a tax cut. All the government does is move money. They don’t create wealth they simply taking money from some and give it to others. So there is no “cost”. It simply means that people were allowed to keep more of THEIR money. Amazing how the left see other people’s money as theirs and if they don’t get it it somehow is a cost to the people who don’t get it.

        Reality 2: Small business makes up 80% of the American private sector economy. Where’s our welfare program? We employ 80% of the people, make 80% of the goods and service, and pay 80% of the taxes. Talk all you want about corporate welfare but other than some obscure programs created by an out-of-control central government it doesn’t exist. Corporate taxes in the US are the second highest in the world and in a few months will be the highest. Some welfare. These taxes are so high because the government is focused on taking money from one person and giving it to another. All the other government programs pale in comparison. Besides it is well understood that if the government increases taxes the large corporations will pass it on to the consumer. The goods I need will cost more in the US so my overseas competition benefits and I suffer- more job head overseas. Enough already – you are putting us out of business.

        Reality 3: Seems that Van Jones is the one putting certain occupations in front of others. The most critical occupations for any economy is entrepreneurs. They create the goods and services that create the jobs, which creates the wealth, which feeds a nation and allows it to offer a quality education, safety infrastructure, and security. One-by-one your rhetoric on corporate greed and class injustice is killing us not the large international companies.

        Reality 4: Guarantee health? Really? Have you even stopped for a second to consider what that means? How are you or anybody going to guarantee health? Sounds good. Let’s guarantee wealth too. I know a few people with terminal illnesses and a few others in the old folks home send me your number so I can have them call for that guarantee. Liberals think they are God.

        Reality 5: You say you are for rights. What about a person’s right to work the General Motor’s assembly line without having to pay union bosses a percentage of their salary. Why can’t a group of citizens negotiate to do those jobs for less? If you want to work at a union shop – you have to join the union and pay them a percentage of your salary. I should have the right to work anywhere without having to join an organization. That’s called freedom of association. It’s in the constitution. Talk about selective rights. The left wants the right to organize but doesn’t see a problem in denying the right for workers to opt out. Hypocrites.

        Reality 6: We already know small businesses built America and account for 80% of the private sector employment. So the argument that “Corporate America” is subsidized to ship jobs overseas is limited to less tat 20% of the jobs. If it is even true and it is not. Even so the jobs we are losing are mostly in the small business manufacturing sector. One by one whole industries are leaving the US. They are not “large corporations” (which besides union pension funds own a percentage of) but they are little companies with 10 or 100 or 500 people. The regulations, taxes, and costs of being here are too great. Once the cost of doing business here exceeds the cost of entry and shipping the jobs disappear. We can’t just pass on higher taxes when we have competitors overseas that do not have as high of tax or regulations. The big companies are less impacted because the cost of entry is much higher. So sure, raise taxes on corporations even more. It’s not good enough that they are already the world’s highest. I watch my friends closes businesses because they can’t compete. It has nothing to do with shipping jobs overseas. Your lack of knowledge of what’s going on in small business is killing the American Dream.

        It is also interesting to note that you refer to tax cuts as your hard earn monies. Just goes to show, again, how you see other people’s property as your own. Hard earned!!! LOL

        Finally it is clear there are two points of view and neither side understands the other. One side wants to take, the other wants to make. I fear that with the continued lean to the left us makers are soon to be overwhelmed by the takers. Then not even wealth will be made in America.

        • Mike in MI

          Little Guy – That you ain’t, in my opinion. Well done!

        • Vicki

          The Little Guy writes:
          “I fear that with the continued lean to the left us makers are soon to be overwhelmed by the takers. Then not even wealth will be made in America.”

          A philosopher named Rand (Ayn) wrote about this problem to try and warn Americans years ago. Alas it was not added to the reading list of liberal/progressive schools.

        • Dan az

          WOW this has been enlightening.Thanks to all of you that posted such great work here.I have felt the same way for years being a small business owner myself.I’m just glad someone could put it into words from the heart,keep up the excellent work.I’m really tired of all the BS the lefties here spew just to show how ignorant they all have become.Thanks again.

        • get right

          Little, wrong dude, small business are 68% government jobs 12% that leaves 20% for the major corporations. Check your facts, this is not Fox!!.

          • Thamera

            OMG GetitRight: you are a complete idiot!

          • get right

            Thamara, show me where 80% of companies are small business’. Then let’s talk.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Thank you sir for your truthful message, that for the life of me, I do not know why the liberal left cannot understand it. Its pretty simple, but they just dont get it. They are too busy pointing fingers and always having to have someone to blame for something, that they offer no solutions to anything, and are a part of the problem, instead of being part of the solution. It is time for them to go bye bye and never be heard from again.

      • independant thinker

        “(Reality: The recent tax bill extending the Bush giveaways for two more years by crating a special tax catagory for the wealthy cost us $68 Billion a year. The entire tax cut costs the Treasury $300 bil./year.”

        Smoke, mirrors, and absolute lies. There is no Bush giveaway in the referenced bill. The tax reduction extension lets people KEEP more of what they earn it gives nothing away. What is given away is money given to those who have done nothing to earn it such as welfare.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The rich you so lovingly demonize, already pay way more than their fair share of taxes pal. Are you really that stupid? They pay far, far more than the rest of us, to the tune of over some 85 percent of the countries taxes they pay. And you want to tax them more? Are you out of your mind? Its people like you, that are making our successful business’s leave and run to other countries to escape the tax nazi’s, so soon all we will be left with is companies that need the government to prop them up, like GM and Chrsyler, who get rewarded for bad business with billion dollar payouts. Im a poor guy to most, middle class to myself, and I see the rich getting pummelled over and over my taxes, and its not fair at all, and people like you take the cake. You want to punish someone for working hard and applying themselves and becoming successful. Why? Should not hard work be rewarded? I think so. Your a sad sack, and your envious of them, and want to be like them. Evidently you have failed, and now you want it stuck to them. Pretty sad pal. Pretty stinking sad.

      • E.A.U.M.

        Somebody has to much time on their hands!

    • Kinetic1

      JeffH,
      As usual, the flow of your post seemed odd until I established the fact that most of your post is made up of pieces of an article by Pastor Mark Musser about New Zealand blogger Trevor Loudon back in 2009. The most glaring difference is that the article gave Loudon credit for his thoughts, though just like you they failed to substantiate any of his claims. More egregious is the fact that, in your zeal to paint an even more troubling picture of Van Jones, you have casually labeled environmentalists as Nazis. A un-noted quote now and then is one thing, but if your just going to reprint the thoughts of others, why not give us a link so that we can read them in context?

      • JeffH

        Well excuuusssseeee me, my error. I usually post the links…but I’m quite sure you got the gist of the post. Will this make you feel better?
        http://www.aim.org/aim-report/new-zealand-blogger-nails-van-jones/

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        They are the green nazi’s. When they resort to pounding nails into trees, so the guys chain comes off and cuts his leg off, that’s pretty darn hateful pal. Just like the nazi’s, they dont value life and limb. All they care about is their agenda, and piss on everyone else. Just like the nazi’s. You cannot deny that.

    • skip

      Ringer is wrong on every count – every one. If you want entrepreneurship, other than selling lemonade on the roadside, you had better emphasize the importance of education – and that takes teachers. The entrepreneurs of Microscoft, Google, and Qualcomm sure as hell were educated and taught, presumably by teachers! I would propose that the best teacher in America have the highest income in the nation, and no one be allowed to have more. But no tenure – expect and reward outstanding teaching. Wall Street is not entrepreneurship, the way it is currently running – it is merely rape and pillage. If they want to support entrepreneurs, fine, but don’t support or empower people to rip the rest of us off, which is what has happened. And we had better keep those entrepreneurs healthy, or they can’t get their projects done. Until they hit the jackpot, how are they going to pay for their health insurance or medical care if they elect not have health insurance. I surely don’t want to pay a cent for their care if they want to go bare, not participate in an insurance program, and get leukemia. They can beg from their friends and families if that is the game they wish to play. One unanticipated head on collision or attack of leukemia is enough to wreck your whole day! What the hell are you talking about calling this socialism or communism – you are simply advocating going back to the jungle, and it has taken tens of thousands of years to climb out of it. There is no socialism or communism in the Ivory Coast or the gang-run, gun toting north of Mexico today – give that a try, guys.

  • JeffH

    Van Jones explains how to implement Socialism into a society.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otM3pWOBWWk

    • Al Sieber

      Thanks for the link,these people need to go.

      • Dan az

        Hey Al
        I would like to know why this guy hasnt been put in to prison?Is communism legal now?Did we not fight the communist in the world wars?What the hell has happened that made it all right now?Why is he even breathing?

        • Al Sieber

          Dan, it’s because we’ve been hijacked by the communists, this isn’t new it goes back to F. Roosevelt and probably earlier, maybe even Karl Marx. F. Roosevelt had a lot of communists in his administration and was friends with Josef Stalin, he was a SOB and should of been tried for treason.

          • Al Sieber

            Matter of fact this whole administration should be tried for treason, we have Czars now just like Russia.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Because he is connected to the democratic left who are in power, thats why. Just like George Soros, the most anti American short of Osama Bin Laden, and he owns them, lock stock and barrell. The left is crooked and has been compromised by many, and they have gotten themselves into bed with bad bedfellows and they are stuck, and cant get out.

    • Warrior

      This class warfare stuff really sells! Look around.

      • eddie47d

        Yes and Jeff H is selling it in spades.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Eddie, denile isnt just a river in Africa. Capish?

    • r k

      You republican (aka ignorants) socialism phobics.

      What about Federal, State and Local SUBSIDIES to
      (1) Polluting oil companies
      (2) Rich and fat farmers
      (3) Super fat, bloated, absolutely corrupt, inefficient Bank Robbers (AKA Wall Street Bankers)
      (4) Fat, blood sucking pharmasutical companies.

      If we discontinue their subsidies, we could save over half a trillion dollars a year.

      WHERE IS YOUR SENSE AND UNDERSTANDING OF SOCIALISM ???

      • http://personalliberty.com Rusty

        It is working so well in the Caribbean. Let’s start with ending the rum subsidies.

        • Vigilant

          For rk:

          You communist (aka cretin) would-be destroyers of nations:

          What about Federal, State and Local SUBSIDIES to

          (1) Teacher’s unions whose minions are polluting our children’s minds with the poison of statism and the Nanny State?

          (2) Rich and fat welfare queens, and all the indolent “takers” in our society?

          (3) Super fat, bloated, absolutely corrupt, inefficient government agencies that waste the hard-earned dollars of the taxpayers?

          (4) Fat, blood sucking illegal aliens and those who employ them?

          (5) Felons who go by the name of “doctors” in perpetrating their Medicare/Medicaid frauds?

          And the list goes on…..

          If we discontinue their subsidies, we could save over a trillion dollars a year.

          WHERE IS YOUR SENSE AND UNDERSTANDING OF CAPITALISM ???

          • Al Sieber

            Right on Vigilant.

          • get right

            Vigilant, I can tell you where one person who commited medicare fraud went…. his fine was one billion 700 million and he is now governor of Florida….we are so proud to have him as our new leader. He is now being sued by our senators as he thinks he can just throw out any idea he doesn’t like even though it has been voted on by the citizens. He doesn’t understand this is a democracy and wants to act like a fraudulent CEO that he is. ONE BILLION 700 MILLION IN FINES and the people in this state elected him…what a hoot!! He is a like Scott Walker. I’m sure he will do some more illegal things and we can impeach him.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Vigilant,
            I’d rather be falsely accused of being a marxist or communist for being for full employment, healthcare, education and protecting the environment for all future generations than being an IDIOT FASCIST who only cares about MONEY and PROFITS and the right of Corporation to do as they please when we all know how they will choose between doing the right thing and making even more money!

          • Vigilant

            Eric the Red says, “I’d rather be falsely accused of being a marxist or communist for being for full employment, healthcare, education and protecting the environment…”

            How ’bout being ACCURATELY accused of being those things? What Utopia do you pine for, buddy? Cuba? former USSR? Oceana?

            Let’s face it, Eric, after I caught you referring to Howard Zinn’s (card-carrying Communist) “People’s History of the US,” we all knew EXACTLY where you were coming from.

          • Jana

            Vigilant,
            Amen!!

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Note to Eric Bishoff. I am a conservative. I have full employment, full education, full health care, and I protect the environment every chance I get, and I sure as hell dont need no government handouts to do it. I work hard, and have succeeding and have advanced on my merits, not on how many years Ive hung around. I went to school and paid attention and learned what I needed to learn. I didnt have a rich daddy to send me to college like some, not that that is bad, but I learned on the job. I pay premiums have have full health care, and need for nothing, at least for now, but Obama care is screwing that up already with rising premiums and lessening coverage, and soon to be loss of many good and quality doctors. I dont litter, and love nature, but am smart enough to know it is better to drill in Montana and Wyoming and Alaska that it is to drill in 5000 feet of water in the Gulf of Mexico, so I say drill and get off our dependance of the Middle East oil. We know how to do it without damaging the environment, despite what your liberal wankers tell you. Just thought you might like to know, conservatives almost all have these qualities, and we dont need your socialism and government control and handouts to get there. They hamper us all.

      • thinking

        r k you so remain me of the ant and the grasshopper. You blame oil companies for suppling you with gas and other products. You hear people say they get all this government give aways yet you have no idea on how much they do pay in taxes and how many jobs they supply. I am sure you beleive in Obama saying the rich need to pay their fair share. Who determines fair? you! and your wanting to pay no taxes sit at home and collect money and food. Get out and get into the oil business instead of coveting others…

        • independant thinker

          “You hear people say they get all this government give aways yet you have no idea on how much they do pay in taxes and how many jobs they supply.”

          j.k., jovianus, eddie, etc. are great at shouting from the rooftops about corporate welfare but when called on it and asked for proof they either just yell it louder or change the subject.

        • Eric Bischoff

          Yo Numb Nuts

          In 2009 just to point out a few
          Exxon $45B profits paid ZERO US taxes
          GE $10B profits recorded Tax loss of $1B
          Chevron 10s of B in profits paid ZERO US Taxes

          As far as subsidies, Here is another one that does not even hit their books. Do you honestly believe that these American Oil companies could operate (The way they do) all over the World without US Military protection?

          2012 Fiscal Year budget:
          • $126 million for wind
          • $340 million for bio fuels
          • $457 million for solar
          • $452 million clean coal
          • $800 million for nuclear
          • $3.6 Billion for Oil & Gas

          Fox which for most of you here is obviously your only source of information blamed Obama for these forever ongoing oil subsidies which he wanted to eliminate but your GOP/Conservative/Tea Party buddies UNANIMOUSLY VOTED to PROTECT.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Ok numbnuts, then explain this. I go to an Exxon gas station, and I fill up my vehicle, and something like 42 cents a gallon goes to federal tax. So doesnt that count as tax revenue Exxon created? And your going to try to tell me, and make me actually believe it, that they made all that money, and didnt have to to a tax return and pay any taxes? I find that awfully hard to believe, and coming out of the mouth of a lying liberal, I really find it hard to believe. And then what about the millions of people that work for them. Is there not Federal, State, and Local taxes taken out of their checks? Geez, I would guess that to be taxes Exxon is paying? Eh?

        • skip

          You’ve got the wrong handle, “thinking.”

      • DaveH

        So two wrongs make a right in your world, rk?
        Who said we were Republicans?
        Government has no business in the business of charity. Period. It is not their money to give.

        • Terri

          Amen. Government was not meant to be responsible for the well being of anyone, let alone keep them & their families up. Wake up, nobody owes anybody else a living. Don’t work, don’t eat!

          • JUKEBOX

            The dumb masses are being taught to be good little slaves on the Government Plantation, aided by Van Jones, Barak Obama, Richard Trumka, Andy Stern, The Tides Foundation, OFA, etc.

          • paul

            Very well stated!

          • Vicki

            I find amusement in the fact that liberals/progressives still have not figured out what “need” means in this famous sound byte:

            “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need”

          • get right

            Terri, you are right..except us Christians should read Deut15:7. 15:10 Prov 19:17 and 14:31. Christ directs us to care and take care of the poor. You must not be one…I will pray for you. What happened to all of you Christians?? Hate has filled your hearts. Shows how the conservatives don’t walk the walk or talk the talk.

          • Thamera

            Getright: Christ also said “teach a man to fish!”

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You are correct in that Terri. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 correctly reflects this.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Note to get right: The Bible does tell US to take care of the poor, not the government. Lets use the separation of church and state they cry about so much here also. It is the job of the church to take care of the poor, not the government. You must understand, the Bible was written for the believer, as a guide to us. It is not understood by the non believer, as it isnt their guide, but the believers guide. It is quite obvious by their actions, the government as a whole, does not believe in God, as evidenced by their many Godless actions. It is not their job to take care of “the poor and the widow”. This is job to be done by us Christians, who are the church. Not the government. You need to get that straight. It is us believers, who are the church, that are charged with things written in the Bible. This is directed to us, to take care of the poor. Not the government.

        • JR

          They actually have more of a right than you and I. We gave up the right to this money or the right to determine how this money is spend the moment we pay our license to legally live in this country….also known as taxes.

          • Terri

            You miss the point. Taxes were not even a part of government until after the turn of the twentieth century. As soon a they got that toehold they dug in & have been gouging ever since. Social Security was not to provide for people who decided they no longer wanted to work, or had paid little, if anything, into the system. It was meant for the people who worked & paid into it, so that they would have some means of support after retiring. I work in a law firm, as a paralegal, not an attorney (means I make very little money) & I am so tired & disgusted with the lazy, whiny, good for nothings, who constantly call wanting to draw SS Disability because they have anxiety, or depression, or they stubbed their toes. Get over it, we all have those things. Again, work, or do without!

          • DaveH

            The Government works for us, JR. We do not work for the Government.
            This country was created to honor the natural (or God Given if you are religious) Freedom of individuals. Unfortunately, apathetic citizens have slowly over the last 200 years let Big Government leaders take that away. We need to get our Freedom back.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, “The Government works for us, JR. We do not work for the Government.”
            That seems to be the point that liberals just can’t seem to grasp.

          • Vicki

            JeffH writes:
            “DaveH: The Government works for us, JR. We do not work for the Government.”
            That seems to be the point that liberals just can’t seem to grasp.”

            Maybe its just that so many folk work for the government now that they really do work for the government so think that we all do too.

          • Dan az

            I think your right viki and this dosent even cover the military or postal workers.
            In 2008, the Federal Government, excluding the Postal Service, employed about 2.0 million civilian workers. The Federal Government is the Nation’s single largest employer. Because data on employment in certain agencies cannot be released to the public for national security reasons, this total does not include employment for the Central Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, and National Imagery and Mapping Agency.

          • DaveH

            National Security my rear end, Dan. It is for their security. The more information they can keep from the citizens, the more power they have.

          • get right

            Terri, you are wrong….read our Constitution!!! Our forefathers believed in taxes and granted the Congress the right to impose them. Did you graduate from high school??

          • Thamera

            GetRight: and everyone else on this thread that bemoans the lack of taxation in this country: YOU CAN DONATE! Anyone can, including Al Gore, Van Jones, and our own prez. You can all donate your money, as much as you want to our government. I have a really sneaky suspicion however, THAT YOU DON’T!!!!

          • get right

            Thamera, I just believe in the Constitution and what our forefathers belived in, unlike you. Try reading it. Taxation was the first item addressed. Good grief, no wonder this country is in trouble.

          • skip

            Right on Thamara – TEACH is the operative word and a civilized society requires them.

        • Thamera

          well said

        • Carlucci

          DaveH – You got that right. How dare that moron insult me by insinuating that I’m a republican. I’m a Libertarian and proud of it. Have been for many years. The Libertarian party has all the good ideas.

          • JeffH

            Carlucci, I have to agree. Too bad the libs can’t understand it.

          • Vicki

            too bad a lot of conservatives don’t either. We could be the unstoppable force that government fears most. http://www.lp.org, the only way to be sure.

          • get right

            Calucci, yup, they agree that unions have rights. Women can do what they want with their bodies. You can be gay if you want too. They understand that the Constitution gave the right to congress to impose taxes, which we should all pay, including corporations. Yea, Libertarians have some good ideas.

          • Kate8

            getright – Yes, but taxes were to be levied only on corporate profits, not on individual income.

            Income is an exchange, money for work. There is no profit involved.

            Did you know that they only do this by deeming you a corporate entity, rather than a sovereign person?

      • Chris

        rk, if you can read, try doing a little home work – check the history of those social programs. I would bet your next paycheck that they all came from a “Progressive” (aka – Socialist) Congress. I agree that they should all be thrown out; let’s do it, but be prepared for the screaming, ranting, rioting upheaval from the LEFT.

      • TIME

        rk,
        Do you have a telie?
        Do you eat food?
        Do you have a Computer?
        A Car?
        A home?
        A phone?
        Heat your home?
        Cool Your Home?
        Do you wear cloths?
        Do you read books?
        Do you read Magazines?
        Go to Hotels?
        Do YOU WORK?
        Do you wear Shoes?
        Do you use the roads?
        How about insulation in your home do you have any?
        Do you have a Cell Phone?
        Do you write with a pen?
        Do use paper?
        If you have a car dose it have tires?
        Belts, Hose?
        Plastic parts?

        If you answered yes to even one of these questions I have to ask why is that? As Oil is involved with all of them in some way shape or form. So to is Wall Street, as if there were NO STOCKS traded, then there would be no business’s and most of these items would not exist.
        So perbhaps you would be feeling better if you lived under a rock in the woods. Oh I bet they don’t get MSNBC there now do they.

        • DaveH

          And the stock market was created to give ordinary folks a chance to prosper on the success of enterprising individuals. When people vote with their money (by buying stocks) their choices of which companies succeed or fail are much better than the choices made by bought-and-paid-for politicians who support the company that pays the most to keep them in office rather than the company that pleases the most consumers.

          • skip

            Stock trading and that risk is acceptable. That part of Wall Street, if there is no manipulation by unscrupulous traders, is fine. But when Goldman and AIG and Countrywide deliberately and purposefully sold what they themselves called “poison, crap, toxic” to the unsuspecting, that is not acceptable. If you call that Capitalism, then Capitalism should be done away with. Figure out how to protect us from these criminals and we can get on with rebuilding our nation.

        • JUKEBOX

          Yeah, they even have cell phones in Obama’s native Kenya, which are also dependent on oil. You would have to live to live in the deepest part of the Congo to escape any type of dependence on oil, and I doubt if you could escape it then. Welcome to Obama’s fourth world dream, the USA.

        • Mary

          Hey, TIME, that’s MSLSD

      • chow

        What do you mean money saved by the government dick head? The money doesn’t belong to them in the first place. You still don’t understand the government owns nothing they only take.

      • luvall

        Wasn’t it the DEMOCRAT controlled Congress(since 2006) that bailed out Wall Street?

        • Mary

          Yeah, Luvall you got it, but alot of people don’t recall that.

        • Vigilant

          And Bush was a traitor to the conservative cause by signing it.

      • Conservative at Birth

        Socialism, Communisim, Facism, all lead to toatalitarian rule. Read some history and report back, after you have ceased being an ostrich, and somebody besides your ignorant brethren will pay attention to your posts.

      • Phillydawg

        RK, I got my “sense and understanding of socialism” through reading Marx and Engels manifesto. I think it’s pretty clear and Marx/Engels were totally WRONG on all fronts!! WHY after the fall of the USSR, and seeing the poverty of “socialist” nations around the world are you guys STILL arguing in favor of it???

        • Vicki

          Cause they don’t realize that they already tried it and it failed HERE too.

          The problem with Socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other peoples money. See Wisconsin, Illinois, California, Detroit Michigan just to name a few.

          Now if some kind liberal/progressive could explain why socialism under his/her dictatorial rule would work where it has failed EVERY OTHER TIME then please do educate us. With cites.

        • skip

          Phillydawg, by definitions in these blogs, certainly you would all define Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, England, Switzerland, Singapore as socialist nations. They hall have educational achievement far beyond us, health care outcomes miles ahead of us, standards of living beyond ours, nowhere near the pockets of poverty that we have. The policies of our most progressive politicians are far to the right of the left in those countries. All of these countries, and ours, will face some really tough problems in dealing with the populations becoming older and therefore less well, and trying to have something approaching everyone having both the opportunity and obligation to work and contribute to their societies. But being hateful, selfish, mean-spirited, and bigoted is certainly not the way to solve these problems. It seems a lot of you don’t give a tinker’s dam about your fellow citizens and neighbors. Where do you suggest we start caring? The insults, pejorative statements, spellings of the president’s name certainly speak to the centers of your souls. Try caring for a change.

      • eddie47d

        thinking brought up a good point.Who determines what is fair? Were so use to corporates getting whatever they want and setting their own pensions and bonuses that we just accept it.Some better start thinking outside the box and demand a real pay scale that pays them their correct value. Instead of giving corporates what they want or THINK they deserve. They rake in huge amounts of money without earning even a small portion of it. Time to put corporates into rehab and give them a chance to sober up to reality like the rest of us have to do.

        • Lastmanstanding

          Fair is whatever the market will bear. Whatever I or someone can negotiate individually. Not collectively like the inept and corrupt unions. I have been give the right to negotiate for whatever I need. I will determine if it is fair or not, and be grateful for what I received or move to the next deal.

          • eddie47d

            So is that salary fair or whatever you or anyone else demands. Some corporates demand far beyond what their value is and is far more morally disgusting than a few union guys asking for a raise.

          • Vicki

            eddie47d says:
            “So is that salary fair or whatever you or anyone else demands.”

            A fair salary is what you and your employer agree on. Very simple. Give us a hard problem already.

            eddie47d: ‘Some corporates demand far beyond what their value is….”

            They can demand all they want. Unlike government who puts a gun to my head to force me to by insurance, they can demand but I ignore them.

          • eddie47d

            That is why this country is in trouble;those arrogant CEO’s demand far more than their value. They are a cost this nation is finding harder and harder to afford.

          • skip

            If I am the so-called Market, I don’t want to bear it. How much rape, pillage, theft, and the like are you willing to bear or tolerate? Do you want your hard-earned money to be forfeited to these money-changing greed mongerers? My IRA took a 50% hit because of these criminals, who apparently you want to legitimize as Capitalists. They are not Capitalists – they are crooks. Capitalism does not mean you have the right to harm someone as much as you can before the limit is reached, but that is what you all seem to propose as the ideal society. Have you any concept of ethics?

        • Lastmanstanding

          eddie. you, I, everyone has a choice to accept or reject the pay, offer, deal, etc. If you don’t like the deal…you move to the next deal. You can compromise if both of you agree to that. If one of you does not wish to compromise, there is NO deal, you accept it and move on…a lesson learned. It is simply business, nothing personal.

          Libs/progs always take this rejection personal and want to blame someone else. eddie, everyone can’t always win. That is why our country is in trouble…a good ass-kicking now and then is good for everyone. IT BUILDS CHARACTER!

          Some people just are able to make more money that others. It’s OK. They spent that money EVERYWHER

        • Vicki

          eddie47d says:
          “Were so use to corporates getting whatever they want and setting their own pensions and bonuses that we just accept it.”

          And why, precisely should they not set their own pensions and bonuses?

          eddie47d: “Some better start thinking outside the box and demand a real pay scale that pays them their correct value.”

          Good idea. Lets get rid of minimum wage and let supply and demand properly determine their correct value.”

          eddie47d: “They (corporations) rake in huge amounts of money without earning even a small portion of it.”

          Eddie47d fast factoid and without any shred of evidence or thought.
          Just for amusement why do YOU think they did not earn every penny of the money people WILLINGLY gave them? Unlike government who simply puts a gun to my head and demands my money.

          • eddie47d

            I can’t help if you are a fan of the wealthy ripping us off and causing prices to rise. Kind of like when the CEO of UnitedHealthCare retired 2 years with a 1 billion 400 million pension.That while healthcare costs were skyrocketing and services diminishing. Talk about taking the gullible for a ride. Take your blinders off Vickie.

          • Dan az

            Eddiee
            You truly are helpless.If you where him would you be saying the same rant day after day?

          • get right

            Vicki, here is the proof. http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/28/news/economy/ceo_pay_workers/index.htm

            also, you might what to see: http://www.cab.latech.edu/~mkroll/510_papers/fall_05/group6.pdf
            that last one shows how much more American CEO’s make compared to the rest of the world.

          • Thamera

            Getright & Eddie: Neither of you have obviously ever tried to do anything on your own or even realize the sacrifice, effort and hard work involved with running a successful corporation or small biz for that matter! The two of you are completely clueless through your demonization of the wealthy! IDIOTS! Who cares if CEO’S get paid an enormous amount of money! How about the Pres and all the wealthy leftists? Do you think Van Jones is poor? How about Al Gore (passe I know but still relevant!) Maybe the two of you should read the bios of some of these corporations and their founders and see what it actually takes to make money independently and not off the back of the taxpayers! Is there room for improvement in the corporate world? Absolutely, but your irrational hatred and vilification of wealth earners as well as complete ignorance of economics is frightening!

          • get right

            Thamera, I own and business and employ 19. Guess what I pay taxes. Business taxes unlike 2/3 of the corporations in this country.

          • Kate8

            getright – Where have you been? The only corporations not paying taxes are the ones owned by the elites. The ones Congressmen and people in the WH administration hold interests in. You know, the ones Obama is giving all the taxpayer-funded bail-outs to.

            The ones who are actually running things.

          • Jana

            Kate8.
            As well as the ones who have unions that Obama is all for who don’t have to buy into the health care bill.

      • Mike in MI

        rk -
        All those things are evidences, part and parcel of, the result of and financial consequences of bloated, favoritistic, marginally constitutional government which preferentially expends the toil of the taxpayers toward those who seek unfair advantages over (usually) more worthy endeavors and individuals throughout the fabric of our nation. It is unethical, unrighteous and unreasonable intrusion into the ability of freemen to freely compete, innovate, build and encourage the success of whatever is most needed and is best in the mind of the consuming public.
        Those subsidized become owners of unfair and unjust power and authorizations of lawmakers who illegitimately use their offices to enrich and empower themselves at the expense of the general populace and wellbeing of the nation. Because of such subsidization I venture to say we are much less free and much more troubled than we would be without them. They should be abolished along with every other thing that centralizes and aggregates power in the few.

      • Al Sieber

        r k, u, how come you aren’t living in Cuba?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        If we got rid of all the social agencies and handout places the democrats keep growing, we could save 10 times that much.

  • JeffH

    Van Jones is William Ayers without the bombs.

    Here’s how the East Bay Express(Oakland,CA)described the Van Jones’ background: [Van] Jones had planned to move to Washington, DC, and had already landed a job and an apartment there. But in jail, he said, “I met all these young radical people of color — I mean really radical, communists and anarchists. And it was, like, ‘This is what I need to be a part of.’” Although he already had a plane ticket, he decided to stay in San Francisco. “I spent the next ten years of my life working with a lot of those people I met in jail, trying to be a revolutionary.” In the months that followed, he let go of any lingering thoughts that he might fit in with the status quo. “I was a rowdy nationalist on April 28th, and then the verdicts came down on April 29th,” he said. “By August, I was a communist.”

    • Mike in MI

      Amen, JeffH -
      He (Van Jones) is like Mao. He has learned what is more powerful than bombs. Remember? What was the weapon that Mao is said to have positioned ahead of and leading his armies in his victory parade?
      A printing press.

      • Vicki

        Fortunately with the internet MANY MANY more of us have printing presses. Of course that means we have to accept the existence of the Daily Kos as well but such is the price of freedom for all.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Kind of like todays dems with ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC, spewing all their propaganda out there, and all those folks that sit around watching that brain sucker all day believe the lies they tell them. Perception.

  • s c

    Van Jones still works for the current prez. He’s an unrepentant, street thug communist. He’s said everything that needs to be said to understand what he’s about and what he wants for America. How can anyone not understand that he and everyone like him HATE freedom? He hates you. He hates me.
    Obummer has not hesitated to use every defective
    philosophy in his attack on America. Still, we have people in America who believe that by combining the worst elements of every freedom-hating idea, America will become a ‘better’ nation.
    Robert Ringer is being exceptionally polite in his view of Jones. People like Jones know that if you smile and seem to have the ‘blessing’ of those in power, you must be ‘OK.’ In other words, if you believe that Van Jones is interested in making America a better country, you will gladly believe ANYTHING. People, you can’t be considered human if your brain is turned off.
    ‘It can’t happen here’ is an excuse and a war cry. It is happening here right now. Open your eyes. Would you put your children in chains because the idea sounds so good or feels so good? Do you hate your neighbors so much that you would condemn them to generational slavery?
    As our so-called ‘leaders’ have proven for so long, it is not possible to be asleep and wide awake at the same time. It is not possible to be moral while you’re selling your self-respect and destroying your country at the same time.
    If Van Jones has an ounce of honesty in him, let him explain how anyone can talk about destruction and goodness in the same breath. Let him explain how his ideas will ‘transform’ America without enslaving what used to be the world’s freedom beacon.
    When someone like Jones tells you who and what he is, you dare not give him any benefit of any doubt.
    He is a destroyer. He will not rest until he has helped to do what no foreign army can do. America, this may be your last chance to protect your families.
    A smiling Hitler is a smiling Hitler. A friendly enemy is no friend. A wolf in sheep’s clothing is still a wolf. Robert Ringer and JeffH have pegged Jones for who and what he is. America, do you care?

    • Carlucci

      An email buddy just sent me this:

      http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0311/Eric_Holder_Black_Panther_case_focus_demeans_my_people.html

      http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/2011/02/doj-sting-targets-bobby-jindall-and-ignores-law

      I guess Ovomit has a personal vendetta now against Bobby Jindal, because Jindal had the “audacity” to criticize him over the BP oil spill disaster in the Gulf last year. Jindal also has a lot of admirers, which makes him a threat.

      • Kate8

        Carlucci – Obama does not tolerate criticism well. I have noticed that even those who claim to be conservative (in Congress, media, etc.) are very careful what they say about him and his policies. I listen to them dance around the issues, pointing fingers at everyone except him and those behind him.

        All the things we see going on at home and abroad are contrived, and have been planned for decades. The thing with the unions is now fulfilling its true purpose – to divide and collapse. The eruptions in Europe and the middle east – all contrived.

        Kissinger made a deal with the Saudis that the US would develop their oilfields if they would agree to make the dollar the oil currency. GHWB and Clinton made a deal with China that we would move our industry over there if they would buy up our Treasury bills. It was all a grand deception, a double-cross, and now these countries are beginning to realize it. China has gained great power, and they are now becoming an imminent danger to us.

        Over the past decades America’s wealth has been plundered and given to foreign dictators to buy their cooperation, while we’ve become a debtor nation. Our government has been a sham all along, controlled by foreign powers and used to set the world up for a hideous agenda.

        This was all to bring world-wide chaos and destruction, and the rise of the NWO.

        • Mary

          Well said, Kate8

        • Mike in MI

          K88 – Of course he doesn’t tolerate it well. No other megalomaniac ever has…can you think of one?
          Just look at where he positions his nose when he speaks at us or deigns to address the unwashed masses.
          Then go look at movies or pictures of other socialist leaders from last (or any) century when they speak “ex cathedra”.

          • Kate8

            Mike in MI – It’s worse than that. All democrats in places of any power are told that they must NEVER disagree with Obama, if they want to keep their positions.

            Gabriel Gifford dared to disagree. Jus’ sayin’.

            Have you noticed any of the rest of them out of lockstep?

          • Jana

            Kate8,

            Woe, hadn’t put that one together before. Hmmm does make you think. Just like it was very convenient for that oil well to blow up in the gulf.

          • usmadgirl

            Jana,

            That’s so weird! I just came back to this topic from “The Great Eight” “Moammar, Hugo & Helen” Ben Crystal video thing. I made a comment to “Harv” at the bottom of the topic about the oil rig just a few minutes ago. Here’s what I said:

            “He (O’Dumbo) doesn’t care that we need to drill for oil before the Middle East cuts us off. How convenient was the explosion of the oil rig just a week after O’Dumbo finally decided to allow offshore drilling. If the truth is known, he probably had it sabotaged so he’d have a “legitimate excuse” to implement the moratorium & stop drilling.”

            I’m glad you mentioned this. I was beginning to think that I was the only person on the planet that thought the rig explosion was awfully “convenient”. O’Dumbo totally refused to allow drilling & all of a sudden he “changes his mind” then a week later “Kaboom”!

          • Jana

            usmadgirl,

            I have been suspicious of him all along. He has a lot of the wrong kind of friends, and they are Anti American. They would do anything to hurt this country. The very fact that he wouldn’t reinstate drilling for oil was a big hint.

          • Kate8

            Jana, usmadgirl – There are reason why we KNOW the rig incident was rigged (no pun intended).

            It goes back to the ’80s, when Kissinger made a deal with the Saudis to fund and build their oil industry if they agreed to make the dollar the only oil currency. Part of this deal was that they guaranteed the Saudis that we would buy their oil, and promised that the US would not drill for our own.

            So, you see, we CAN’T drill on American soil without breaking this agreement. It was part of the big double-cross, because the intent was to crash the world economy down the road. All just part of the global plan.

        • Al Sieber

          Excellent post Kate..

  • TIME

    We have many who hate us and our way of life within our own government, our schools, banking, Media etc.
    They are working with our outside enemy types, thus we face a larger force than what we see.

    READ between the lines whats not beig said, whats the other hand doing?
    If you break people down in to sub groups who are fighting each other these Van Jones types and NWO, as well as anyone who hates US stands a strong chance of bringing US down. The term is;
    “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
    They all have a common goal to destroy what you have and take it away from you to make you a slave or DEAD.

    The Art of War, Please read it. All of you will better understand whats going on. But thats only if you can see the TRUTH, BTW – thats something you don’t see on MSN, NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, or CNN PBS, or Ali’s Gez – zera’s.

    For God sake people Wake up!

    • JR

      Having a minor bout of paranoia now do you?

      • DaveH

        History has proven SC’s kind of paranoia as just plain common sense, time after time.

        • Jovianus

          The real question you should be asking…who is practicing Sun Tzu’s Art of War on whom? Who is being misled and their fears and paranoia’s played upon as they cower and hide from responsibility and obligation?

          Hint; It’s not the Progressives or the Democrats practicng the tenets on the public.

          • TIME

            You JOvIannus,

            Man oh Man have you been in your deep inner space hole way to long.

            Perhaps if you unplug whats left of your head form that deep inner space hole, you may get a tad more fresh air.
            Saddly – That inturn will lead to oxygen rich red blood cells that will aid in feeding your brain new ideas that have merit.
            That is rather than just tired retoric that reaks like rancid gumBO.

          • ValDM

            I don’t quite get what you’re babbling about. Hiding from my responsibilities and obligations? I don’t owe you or your ilk anything, but contempt. If you or your compatriots choose not to work, then you can go hungry. If you choose to take what isn’t yours (that you EARNED) be prepared for more than a little resisitance on my part.

          • Carlucci

            Jovi – Your mind reminds me of concrete. All mixed up and permanently set.

          • Jovianus

            Val, TIME, Carlucci….yes…that comment fits you three to a “t’. And that is fact. Deny it if you want, denial seems to be the #1 theme you guys have. But it’s a fact.

          • Vicki

            Jovianus says:
            “Val, TIME, Carlucci….yes…that comment fits you three to a “t’. And that is fact. Deny it if you want, denial seems to be the #1 theme you guys have. But it’s a fact.”

            I searched your post high and low for a fact. Didn’t find one. Do you have a cite to back up your assertion that you claim is a fact?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            The democrats are practicing their un-American behavior on all the massess, even on themselves, as they fail to realize, the enemy will cut their heads off as quick as anyone elses, as soon as they are given the chance. And the liberal left is either too blind to see it, or too stupid to realize it, or to arrogant to understand it.

      • TIME

        JR,
        No, I am quite aware of whats going on – unlike people like you.
        So hows it feel to be an nano wit?
        I bet your blissful in your little world of utter Ignorance.

        • Carlucci

          Jovi – you are truly living up to your “name” – anus !! Are you being paid by your fellow libtards from the looney left to post on this blog?
          C’mon – tell everyone the truth……..

        • Lastmanstanding

          TIME. JR will look good in shackles and chains. That is if he works real hard for his progressive master. If he decide not to work, we…….ll, he’ll be “put down.” They just will not get it…

      • skip

        Minor?????

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      And it totally amazes me, how these alphabet networks, protect and defend these terrorists who have vowed to kill us all. They are so stupid, they cant even see, that they will be the first to go, as the enemy will take the press, and use it to put out their word to the masses, just as the democrats are using it now, to spread their agenda, all for the damnation of America. And none of them can see it. Just amazes me. Its unbelievable.

  • Alex

    Good to see that Mister Ringer disagrees with the ridiculous recent Roberts Supreme Court ruling that corporations have the same rights as individuals.

    • Bruce D.

      I agree with you on that Alex. Corporations are government created entities, individuals are sovereign citizens.

      • chow

        Could you explain how a corporation is a government created entity? I always thought that corporations are established by private individuals with their own capital (money) to create a product to sell for profit.

        • Bruce D.

          “A corporation is a legal entity that is created under the laws of a State designed to establish the entity as a separate legal entity having its own privileges and liabilities distinct from those of its members.[1] There are many different forms of corporations, most of which are used to conduct business. Most jurisdictions now allow the creation of a new corporation through registration.
          Corporations exist strictly as a product of the corporate law.”

          • Bruce D.

            I think the States of Delaware and Nevada allow for more protection than the others.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I have to greatly diagree, and with facts. I work for a Corporation, started by a man in his garage, then expanded by his 3 sons that still run it today. The government has done nothing to help it, but they have made a crap load of money taxing them, and taking payroll taxes from guys like me. But they have never funded anything for us, nor will they. We are successful, and they tax the living hell out of us for it. So your way off base, and your demonizing the rich and the corporations shows your lack of intelligence here. Now go get a job.

    • DaveH

      Corporations are collections of individuals, just as Unions are collections of individuals. We don’t lose our rights just because we join with others.

      • Vicki

        That would, of course, be freedom of association. I think the concern is that the association called “corporation” gets special privileges (they are NOT rights) and some of the actual individual rights have some undesirable effect when done by a “corporation” as a legal entity rather than by the individuals that make up the corporation.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        To a point Dave. We lose our rights when we are forced against our will to join a union in order to get certain jobs, and forced to give part of our pay to the union bosses, so that they can buy off democrat politicians, who in turn give them exemptions, so that other working people can pay higher taxes to pay for this. To be forced to join a union and pay dues, and even these days to a further extent, many are forced to vote a certain way or lose their jobs. Other than that, you are correct.

    • Bruce D.

      “In his now-famous dissent Justice Stevens snarked that the ruling paved the way for a host of private rights for corporations that had traditionally and legally been reserved only for actual persons.

      Yesterday the Court corrected course just a bit in ruling against AT&T’s attempt to block disclosures under a Freedom of Information Act request by asserting a “privacy” right against self-incrimination.

      But despite finding that corporations do in fact have speech rights, this time the Court clarified that corporations are not “humans” and therefore have no “personal rights” when it comes to privacy.

      It wasn’t a small correction either. The unanimous decision made it clear that AT&T could not avoid any potentially embarrassing or even criminal disclosures by asserting a personal privacy right.

      The Court also took the time to clarify that while corporations are considered “persons” under the law, a “person” is not always a “person” when dealing with privacy interests.”

      • Vicki

        Bruce D. writes:
        “It wasn’t a small correction either. The unanimous decision made it clear that AT&T could not avoid any potentially embarrassing or even criminal disclosures by asserting a personal privacy right.”

        But how are those disclosures not affecting persons? A corporation can not feel embarrassment so it makes no sense that would even be argued. The people working for or owning a corporation could feel so why are their rights to privacy now void because they formed an association and got some special privileges?

        • Bruce D.

          Those were not my words but I agree with them. My opinion is that a corporation is a ‘created’ legal entity created under corporate law. It does not does not function under common law. A corporation cannot be charged with murder or theft and it cannot go to jail. It has only the protections and privileges of corporate law that the individual states they are set up in give them. Giving legal entities free speech set a precedence. If wrong doing is found during an investigation of the corporation not all corporate officers may not be responsibly. They would not be guilty as a group. The focus would turn to the individual and he would have 5th Amendment protection and does not have to incriminate himself. A partnership is different from a corporation and both are different from a business trust. A business trust can be somewhat different and operate under the private contract of the individuals involved as can a partnership.

      • get right

        Bruce, those repubs on the court are now trying to backstep their stupid decision…. this should be funny.

  • spitfire

    You must also remember, that our schools have been busy for 25 years tuning out communist sympathizers at the very least. I know as I had to try and undo on a daily basis, all the bullshit they taught or tried to teach my sons in school. PUBLIC SCHOOL In the colleges and univerities I find it even worse.

    So I feel that many years ago, they started building a base for what they are trying accomplish now. The scary thing, is they may have succeeded in dumbing Americans to the point of no return. In other words, more socialist bullshit, that its ok to be queer, its ok to be a parasite on other people, its ok to be a follower, its ok to let the government do everything for you. The list is much too long for this forum. Everything is ok, just smile and your government will do it for you.

    • skip

      Is teaching math, science, literacy, and the ability to write and read truly a communist plot?

  • Eric Bischoff

    Boy talk about MASSIVE PARANOIA!

    Why are you guys so AFRAID of IDEAS that differ from your limited scope of the world or how it might better operate.

    It’s not like the conservative powers that be who, admit it or not have been running or should we say ruining this country, are doing a terrific job now is it. We are broke. We are mired in 2 wars. We have no intelligent energy policy when we should have had one back in the 70′s and our citizens are getting fatter and dumber. Nothing to be too proud of if you ask me.

    You are all so scared that you need to immediately vilify anything that might upset your FAILED CONSERVATIVE viewpoint. God forbid we should ever listen to the many voices in this free country and out of that create a better consensus.

    FEAR is obviously driving everything in your world. Personally I am not afraid of listening to a Van Jones. I don’t need to call him names or put him in any kind of (ism) box. He actually has a few good ideas which we will probably never do anything with because we are letting the scaredy-cats lunatics run the show.

    It’s too bad you are so afraid and so clueless. You are destroying and will continue to destroy this country and blaming everyone else for it. Unless of course the sleeping masses wake up from their sugar and prescribed drugs coma and finally see through your crap and say enough is enough with the lies and the fear propaganda.

    We are Americans and we can be and we should be better than that.

    Van Jones is merely an American with a different point of view and by villifying him you have deprived America of some potential greatness with simple deeds and ideas to put people back to work and bring in some long overdue energy efficiency into our buildings.

    But I wouldn’t expect this crowd to understand what I am talking about.

    Cowards.

    • Bruce D.

      Eric says: “Van Jones is merely an American with a different point of view…”. His point of view is different from mine but it is doubtful that it is that much different from yours.

      • skip

        BRUCE – do you and your fellow bloggers have any room for different points of view? Are you capable of communicating without firing a whole bunch of derogatory statements, name-calling, and the like. These blogs should facilitate reasonable communication, not constant spewing of hate and name-calling. If you can’t handle that an educated black person was elected president, then state that clearly and explicitly, but don’t wrap your feelings and “isms” and distortions of fact. If you are going to hate, then man-up and tell us that you hate so we can get on with trying to solve the host of problems this country faces.

    • Rich Frank

      Eric, would you care to list some of the FAILED CONSERVATIVE viewpoints you refer to? What you fail to recognize is that the main conservative viewpoint in this country is liberty. How liberty is achieved and maintained has been vilified by too many politicos in both major political parties. Hard core Progressives and those of the NWO cadre are the ones we need to worry about. Get your head straight.

      • Alex

        Trickle-down Economics—failure
        War on Drugs—failure
        Deregulation of Wall Street—failure
        Sending American Jobs Overseas to Appease Business—failure
        Keeping Pace With International Environmental Advances—failure
        Replace Troops (low-wage mercenaries) With Private Contractors (higher-paid mercenaries)— failure

        just for starters….

        • JR

          A narrow mind will never see the big picture

        • Bruce D.

          I coppied this from a blogger who was not that happy with Obama.
          “26 months of Obama has given us record deficits, record unemployment, longest jobless stretch since the 1930′s, record bank failures, record foreclosures, record trade deficits, record poverty rate, failing dollar, national poverty at record highest level, foreign policy disasters, record number of golf games played by a president, record death toll in Afghanistan, record number of food stamp recipients, consumer confidence at record lows, home values have fallen to Depression levels, record number of days spent abroad by a US President, over half the states suing to stop Obamacare, auto bailout money being used to build a plant in Mexico, ME-Chelle with a record number of personal assistants, the worst environmental disaster in the US largely ignored and exploited for political gain, SEC now immune from FOIA, internet wiretaps made easier, executive order used to assassinate Americans overseas, Gitmo still open, secret wiretaps still on, lobbyists, corporations and special interests still have unimpeded access to members of Congress, a ‘Safe Schools Czar’ who is pedophile friendly, record number of unelected and unaccountable Czars, continuation of the war in Iraq and the expansion of the war into Pakistan and Yemen, bills passed in the dead of night on weekends and holidays in order to hide them from the public, a two billion dollar trip of record extravagance to India. 5 trillion in loans to overseas banks, Harley Davidson, GE, NBC, BMW, Toyota and others, warrantless government monitoring of private citizens’ credit cards transactions, continued hiring of military contractors, FCC takeover of the internet, allow law enforcement to place homing beacons on vehicles without a warrant, DHS using drones to spy on US citizens, DHS allowed to seize and shut down websites that sell knockoff handbags in the interest of ‘national security’, support of the internet kill switch.”

          • get right

            Bruce, surely with your intelligence, you know the majority of that statement is not true, why would you print such crap?

        • Jeep

          Alex, you are a funny little commie.

          Trickle-down Economics—failure You mean the tax cuts that doubled tax receipts when it was implemented? Really? The failure was in the progressive congress that spent the new revenue, and then some.
          War on Drugs—failure You may have a point there. We should pass three laws. 1-Legalize drugs. 2-Tax the heck out of it. 3-When you need medical attention for your addiction you will receive NO tax money to pay for it.
          Deregulation of Wall Street—failure I guess you forget that Wall Street LOVES the progressive wing of the democratic party. Otherwise, why would they send so much in campaign contributions? (More than 2-1 over Reps).
          Sending American Jobs Overseas to Appease Business—failure This is a conservative principle? How’s that? Businesses are outsourcing because of govt regulation and taxes. Period. The policies of a big govt (read progressive) are choking the life out of innovation. Just ask any business owner.
          Keeping Pace With International Environmental Advances—failure That’s right! We should support the “green initiative”! After all Al Gore stands to make billions from it! And, look how well it’s worked for Spain!
          Replace Troops (low-wage mercenaries) With Private Contractors (higher-paid mercenaries)— failure Bashing troops? Tsk, tsk, or to use the words of your Wisconsin friends, “Shame on you!” We have the strongest, most advanced military in the world. In spite of progressive “meals on wheels” ideas. And, please, go to Fort Bragg and call the first flat bellied, steely eyed paratrooper you see a “Mercenary”. Please, do that. I implore you to deride our troops to their face.

          just for starters…

          • Alex

            The people you call “troops” are mercenaries in our never-ending War of Capital. Many of them are rapists and murderers. No one gets to be called a “hero” just by signing away their life and individuality to be part of a group of trained killers. Sure, there are a few people who may perform some act of heroism while in uniform, but they are the exception. By far, most members of the armed farces are losers who did poorly in school and go on to be wife-beaters. The numbers bear this out.

            The most personal of all human decisions is to either give life or to take life. This is a decision that God or the Gods take very seriously. Anyone dumb enough to sign their soul away by agreeing to be a hitman for our aggressive and sickly nation is a moron, and any parent who fails to dissuade their progeny from enlisting is guilty of child abuse. Believe, after 911, MY own son and daughter wanted to sign up, but I was able to explain to them that we don’t fight for freedom and have not done so for many years. We only fight for Position and Capital, though often under the pretext of “someone’s” freedom (see Vietnam or Grenada, as examples). My children love me for my honesty and assistance in seeing through layers of fluff that we use to perpetuate the Great Lie that is the White Estates of Amerika, mercenary child-killers and all.

          • Bruce D.

            Alex says: “My children love me for my honesty and assistance in seeing through layers of fluff that we use to perpetuate the Great Lie that is the “White” Estates of Amerika, mercenary child-killers and all.”
            Do your children also love you Alex for teaching them racial hatred?

          • JR

            Definition of mercenary: A person who signs up with private or government forces for monetary reasons.
            Our Military is a professional PAID military. The members of the military sign on for a PAID job and thus by definition they are mercenaries period.(I always laugh at the whining and crying and hoopla when they get deployed….wow, they actually have to perform and honor they’re employment contract and suddenly everyone gets upset?) They are not heroes, or patriots or any of the other B.S. that comes from that part of society. They are paid mercenaries, they do the job they signed up to do…nothing more, nothing less. Calling them patriots is a slap in the face of the real patriots that this country has . The many soldiers that where drafted and went to do they’re duty and did not like so many I know went over the bridge to Canada….many I know, even many that call them self conservatives and patriots. The men that fought wars for our freedom not because it is a job, but because they where ask to and manned up and honored this country…..those are the patriots and heroes…not the ones who in modern times sign up for a JOB with the corporate military establishment to fight…not for our freedom..we have that already, but for the interest of corporate America…and the corporate greed…And yes, its a thankless dangerous job, but nobody forced them to sign they’re life’s and souls away for a paycheck.

          • Jeep

            JR and Alex, wow…that’s all I can say…wow…you two should both exit this “terrible” country as soon as possible. If it were up to me, your homes would have been under the twin towers on 9-11. After all, the “enemy” is not really an “enemy”, right?

            Sure, call the patriotic (and, JR being a coward, you probably wouldn’t know what real patriotism is anyway) young men and women all the names you want. They protect you as much they protect those who support them. But, I would venture to say that neither of you have met some of America’s finest recently. If you hate them so much, then again, I implore you to be personal about it. Go tell a soldier how you really feel. I’m sure you will get the “proper” response. Aren’t they all just murders, wife beaters and baby killers?

            Sometimes I would like to take my 27 years in the Army and trade it for five minutes areound losers like you two. As long as it ends with you leaving.

          • TIME

            JR, Alex; Do either of you work?
            If so then your “Prostitutes,”

            As the the meaning of a Prostitute is some who works for a living.

          • Kate8

            Alex – There are several military people in my family and, I can assure you, they are among America’s finest. They are people of honor, love and grace, and they have willingly offered their lives to the (perceived) cause of liberty for a pittance of pay.

            I take real offense at your slandering of these brave men and women, who are so much more than you could ever hope to be. I’d go out on a limb and bet that you’d never sacrifice for another for any reason.

            You are the reason why America is failing.

          • Bruce D.

            I agree with you on that Kate 100%.

          • Jeep

            Not so funny how JR and Alex did not respond to the answers given by DaveH, or myself. Instead they choose to continue the slander and villification of America’s best. Sheesh, you would almost think they hate it here…

          • Vicki

            Alex says:
            “The people you call “troops” are mercenaries in our never-ending War of Capital. Many of them are rapists and murderers.”

            Arguement to ridicule. Argument to demonize. Proof by bald assertion.
            Epic fail.

          • Vicki

            Alex writes:
            “My children love me for my honesty and assistance in seeing through layers of fluff that we use to perpetuate the Great Lie that is the White Estates of Amerika, mercenary child-killers and all.”

            A liberal racist plays the race card. but I repeat myself.

          • Kate8

            Baby killers, Alex?

            The liberal left has supported and funded the deaths of more babies than ever in history.

          • Al Sieber

            My granddaughter is over there too, and not for a education either.

        • DaveH

          Trickle-down Economics—failure? For one thing that is a phrase coined by Leftists. It is referring to the “supply-side economics” as proposed by Arthur Laffer. That was promoted during Reagan’s term after the economic disaster created by the far-left Jimmy Carter.
          Note that by considering our economy after Reagan to be a failure that Alex is admitting that Big Government (which has grown twice in size since 1950) is not the solution to our Economic Problems.

          Yes, I agree the War on Drugs is a failure. And even if it weren’t, the Government has no business in protecting people from themselves. One would think we would have learned that lesson after the disasterous Prohibition policies. But Government leaders don’t care if their programs work or not, they just want the power and perks.

          Deregulation of Wall Street—failure? Wall Street is just as regulated as ever, just different regulations. I yearn for the old days when Politicians didn’t get to pick the winners and losers.

          Sending American Jobs Overseas to Appease Business—failure? Nobody sent American Jobs overseas. The companies left because the were sick of the high corporate taxes in the US, and they were sick of being regulated to death, and they were sick of dealing with greedy Unions.

          Keeping Pace With International Environmental Advances—failure? It is a fact that the cleanest countries in the world are the richest countries who can afford to pay for the controls. Yet, Liberals like Alex want to impoverish our country with their Socialist, Thieving ways. They don’t really care about the Environment. Their goal is nothing short of wealth redistribution (which has worked so well for Cuba).

          • skip

            To JR – I could not agree more. There should be a full-on draft, end of discussion. And no one should be able to dodge it, no one. And when we go to war, raise the revenue by immediate increase of gas tax at the pump – get the cash up front immediately to pay for wars. If we had the draft and immediate taxes applied to support our wars, we could make decisions quickly about whether or not we are in favor of that war. And all of the conservatives certainly place paying for war and defense as number one priority for our government, so there should be no argument there. And for the draftees, in response to JR’s concerns, a minimum pay for that service to the country, but GI bill rights, and care for injuries suffered must be provided for them for the service and heroism.

        • Grinch

          funny, almost everything you mention was due to liberal policies.

          I guess you must have forgotten about NAFTA and allowing China into the WTO, or the repeal of the glass steegal act (however you spell it). What in the hell are you talking about? What about that wonderful community reinvestment act?

          To be truthful, almost all of our economic and security problems can easily be traced to the blunders of the Clinton administration. Look what they accomplished during his first term when the dems controlled everything. Now look what happens when they controlled both houses and the WH from 2008 to 2011……massive government spending, a socialized health care system, 10% unemployment the entire middle east on fire and the COMPLETE division and polarization of a country.

          Yeah, I would certainly say failed conservative policies are to blame.

          Go check out the Community Reinvestment Act under Clinton and what it led to……..go talk to a President of a bank you know and just ask him. Republicans shipping are jobs over seas? Would you like me to post the voting roll of the dems for NAFTA? You sure you want to go there? Understand the facts.

        • Eric Bischoff

          Hang in there Alex.

          Have you noticed that conservatives sort of glaze over any real points or facts you bring up that flies in the face of what they believe?

          My post was all about how they are AFRAID of everything and I believe it is driving them mad. They act so tough but they are afraid of IDEAS.

          Our so called free enterprise capitalist system has us drowning in red ink, joblessness, massive deficits and failed programs and wars and still they cling to their moronic theories.

          God forbid we should ever discuss the potential merit of a socially minded worker owned cooperative corporation. One that gives one worker one vote. A set of rules that all workers agree on that the salary differences between the top earners and the bottom earners cannot be greater than 6 times.

          Guess what!!!! The two areas of europe that have adopted that style, Spain’s Mondragon and Italy’s Emilia-Romagna, are always doing quite well though economic downturns. Their employment remains high and their profits are contsant. They take care of their communities. Their local governments are very stable and the factories don’t want to leave because that would be breaking the trust of their community and their cooperative corporation vendors and customers.

          What a concept.

          Read up, look it up if you don’t believe me.
          [ http://www.uwcc.wisc.edu/info/bologna.html ]Emilia-Romagna

          [ http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6348598461397509798# ]Mondragon

          The goal of the Mondragón Cooperatives is to create community through economic relationships and to transform society through conscious economic practices.

          Oooohh I could just see you now looking like Glen Becks and running around like chickens without heads. He’s talking solialism and he must be a marxist or communist. AFRAID of ideas are you?

          How about I belive in a healhty socieyt with high employment and full coffers

          But no! you fools would rather hold on to the stupid dream that you just might some day be a billionaire and therefore can’t fathom the thought of paying your fair share of taxes and helping your city, state and country. Or the idea that lower taxes mean jobs.

          History proves that when tax rates are too low they destroy jobs. It encourages cash widthdrawal instead of reinvestment in the business.

          A hedge fund manager thanks to new laws in congress can make $9 Bilion dollars and leave it in his fund and pay ZERO taxes. Can you do that?

          From 1961 to 2006 the the rich had their taxes reduced by 60%. Everyone else by 20% That’s why we have massive inequality.

          The Corporate tax rate is about 15% of profits. Corporate income taxes are one third lower now than in 2000. Corporate Profits are up 60%. THey are sitting on $2Trillion in cash. They are not investing in, they are not HIRING. They have pulled this money out of the American economy.

          Treasonous if you ask me.

          Fools!

          • DaveH

            We haven’t had Free Enterprise for over a hundred years, Eric. I think you know that and are purposely lying. But maybe you truly are just an Ignoramus.

          • get right

            DaveH, do you believe in our Constitution? Sure doesn’t sound like it. They believed in taxes, oh that’s right you think you are smarter than they were. We were doing ok, right up until the Reagan economics of trickle down were implemented. The result is what we are living today.

          • Mike in MI

            Erik -
            Why do we remember that last year both Spain and Italy were in imminent danger of utter collapse financially. Who came up with he money to make them suddenly profitable and well-to-do?
            Or…wasn’t I supposed to happen to remember that?
            Where do you get these balance sheets that perpetully make you right – in spite of what was being widely reported about the danger to the EU and world finances if they went under?
            You just sound like a psychopathic liar – like your OMessia boss.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      If a man tells you that he will destroy you, your family, your business, and your country, and goes about setting the destruction in motion, what do you think that man has in mind? Mister, you are a Dunce if you don’t see what the Van Joneses have in store for all of us. Start Thinking.

      • usmadgirl

        Nadzieja Batki,

        Oh so true! Even Bill O’Reilly doesn’t think that Van Jones is a problem or poses any threat despite Glenn Beck showing him proof in Van Jones own words. What will it take for people to wake up? Maybe when we’re all standing in line for our monthly bread & government cheese, they’ll say “Oh, so THAT’S what he meant”!

        • Kate8

          usmadgirl – I hear ya about that spineless O’Reilly, but the truth is that FoxNews is the ‘controlled opposition’. They have Beck come up with some truth, then have someone else scoff at it. It happened to Beck on the FEMA Camps and other stories, as well.

          The PTB use the media to throw it all out there, mix it all up, and have so many versions that people just blow it all off, and nothing is ever done.

        • skip

          The only thing Glenn Beck has shown is that he is really on the margins of being sane.

          • Jana

            skip,
            Whats the matter, can’t you follow your own advice by being open to others ideas? If you want others to be open to yours, then you have to do the same, without making derogatory remarks.
            In fact since you want it so badly be a man and show us how its done. You just showed us all how its NOT done.

          • Kate8

            skip – I doubt you have ever listened to Beck.

            I would question your sanity before I’d question his.

    • DaveH

      Talk about Clueless. Eric seems to be completely oblivious to the fact that we continue to have these economic meltdowns even as Government grows bigger and more intrusive. Just how Big does it need to get, and how much worse does the economy need to get, before Ignorant people like Eric admit that the Government isn’t a creator of wealth? The Government consumes wealth, and in the process of consuming our wealth they hamper those people who are being productive.
      Big Government is the Problem, Not the Solution.

    • DaveH

      And why, Eric, if the progressive/socialist point of view is so desirable, do they need to force it on the people using Big Government as their Bully Boys?

      • Vicki

        Cause the definition of socialism is the King (government) owning everything. We will not accept that so it has to be forced on us.

        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

      • Eric Bischoff

        Take your paranoiacs blinders off.

        I am not talking about big socialist govt.

        I am talking about new economic models and ways to fix our communities and our economies.

        • DaveH

          You’re the one wearing Blinders as evidenced by your own image.
          I don’t care what government level you are working at. The only way to achieve your policies is by forcibly stealing other peoples’ money and forcibly taking their choices away. People do not volutarily donate to your policies. If they did, creeps like you wouldn’t need to use the Government bullies to achieve your goals.

        • Mike in MI

          Errk -
          So, you want me to think if it quacks like a duck, stinks like a pig, looks ike a gargoyle and lies like Obama it can’t be Karl Marx reflection? Right?

    • s c

      E, let me phrase this so anyone – including you – can understand it. Your reasoning (aka “logic”) is a no-think, feel-good approach to life. At the heart of what you believe is a willing blindness so corrupting that the first victim of this insane philosophy is common sense.
      Here it is, E. Your “logic” demands that people try ANYTHING once. I mean ANYTHING. So show America what you’re made of, dude. Have you ever considered suicide? You could help reduce the population, and you might like it (in a sense). Now, go try it.
      I suspect that you don’t pack the gear. And THAT, E, makes you nothing less than a COWARD’s COWARD.

      • Al Sieber

        s c, I second that.

    • Billy Cooper

      SOUNDS TO ME LIKE ANOTHER VAN JONES “AMERICA HATER” ARE YOU TWO JOINED AT THE HIP? OR ARE YOU JUST DRINKING THE SAME”KOOL-AID”?

    • Thamera

      What else can you say to a post like this one except LOL Eric!!!!!! You are a clueless little useful idiot.

    • Jay

      Eric, you’re needed at the white house. The current Socialist/Marxists administration would greatly appreciate you’re contribution!

    • Conservative at Birth

      You will find out who the true cowards are when your mobs start to take what is not theirs and meet with armed resistance.

      • Lastmanstanding

        You are correct C @ B. Once the dollar collapses, and obummer has no money for “his troops” they will be on the rampage. Only when they are dying in the street will they then feel betrayed…most not even then.

      • Mike in MI

        Conservative -
        Aye. And I’ll bet when they come to take from him whatever he may have accumulated in life he’ll be more than glad to glady relinquish – just to prove he isn’t a dirty capitalist profiteer at heart.

    • Vicki

      Eric Bischoff writes:
      “Why are you guys so AFRAID of IDEAS that differ from your limited scope of the world or how it might better operate. ”

      Because they violate first principle and the Supreme Law of THIS land. We are ok with all you socialists/communists etc living your dream. We are NOT ok with you using force to make us live your dream with you.
      Oh and I should warn you that we are NOT afraid. You shouldn’t be afraid of our ideas for a free people either.

  • Gail Marie Florida

    LIBERTY !!!! Thanks Robert

  • Polski

    If the employers were reasonable, there wouldn’t be any need for unions or “negotiations”. If the governor of Wisconsin and the republicans had their way, children would still be dying and getting burnt horribly as chimney sweeps.

    • Bruce D.

      There should be a win-win between employer and employee to have a successful business. Unions no longer take the health of the company into consideration with the power of collective bargaining. Basically unions have become corrupted by the power they wield.

    • lkar

      The “employer” is the government. The same entity that makes the work regulations. The workers can vote in their bosses. What part of conflict of interest do you not understand?

    • Jeep

      Invoking the “children cause” is getting old. Nobody is buying that. Grow up you moron. What part do you not get about Wisconsin? Taxes pay for public employees, who are forced to pay union dues, that are “donated” to democratic candidates, that offer sweet (tax payer funded) deals to unions, who then hire more public workers, that are payed by the tax payer, who are forced to pay union dues, that are donated to democratic candidates, that offer sweet (tax payer funded) deals to unions, who hire more public employees, that are payed by the tax payer….and, on…and, on…Go Scott Walker, and break the vicious cycle.

    • louie

      Typical Skimo comment!!!

    • Jay

      What????

    • Jay

      Polski, as usual, you’re consistently incoherent! You no doubt suffer from a severe case of intellectual frustration. Please report to Wisdom immediately so you can cure your disease.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    Its clear that Van Jones is a threat to the US as a Republic (if one could call that anymore).
    The attack on America began in 1905 and has been increasing ever since. It took a big jump in 1946, 1963, 1974 and again in 2001.

    Make no mistake this is more about the American people waking up and choosing the right people for office, then the people currently in office doing the right thing. Its more about turning off the Corporate/elite TV and doing your own research.

    There will ALWAYS be threats to the US from within and from outside..ALWAYS. We as Citizens have been duped, bamboozled, and hoodwinked into following a political system that makes the choices for you. Its mostly evolved into a blind idol worship, following one political party and blindly believing promises.

    Dont agree with me, thats fine. But you just might as the heat gets turned up. Remember we were all warned many years ago that America would be taken from within. It is, it has and it will be and I sadly say that all these patriotic movements will only slightly delay the inevetable move against us. The attack against our Freedoms & Liberty’s didnt start with Obama, or Bush.

    Until you drop ALL loyalty to ANY past politician you are doomed to repeat the same tragic mistakes that led you to elect those, who came before the current group, that set you up FOR the current group!

    If your belief lies in politicians fixing this problem, you will be very disappointed in the next 12 months. Its only US who can fix this. The bad guys are here in suits, ties, waving red white & blue.

    • Awakened

      I hear you, and agree, and I don’t think you’re being “bitter”(as your screen name may imply to some) at all. Sometimes the truth HURTS. God help us all…..

  • Don Gaines

    Personally if anyone really wants Communism let them either do it in their home or move to a commie country.
    Now as for Unions, Board of Education’s like the US government was a good thing a long long time ago but both have USURPED too much authority they do NOT have and must be either brought back to their place or Removed & replaced there is no other option.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Strange isnt it how these ideas ALWAYS start as a good idea…almost as though we are set-up every time. Social security, NAFTA, DHS, ALL seems necessary and good ideas at the time…WHEN WILL WE LEARN.

  • Bert Cundle

    AMERICAN DREAM… Like M.L.K’s. Dream… Is a NIGHTMARE to Some!!!
    My Dream of Government.. is that “Religion” be Compleetly absent! Yet Christians have a Prayer to start our Official Meetings! The Tax Structure is for ACCOUNTANTS, Not the common folk. THE 10,000 Laws are for the LAYERS, And Revinue! (FINES = EXTORTION // BAIL = Ransom.)Not for People that are living there life without harming anyone!
    A Dream of mine is The U.S. of A. Become CIVILIZED! (Demolishing the CRIMINAL SYSTEM!) A Nightmare to the Criminals.

  • Kane Bittner

    They all gotta go. Period.
    And at this point, I don’t care how it happens.
    Think about that.

    • Carlucci

      I agree. Get rid of all demoncrap/rino incumbents except for the Drs. Paul, and start all over again with non-lawyers.

  • Delores Smith

    ROBERT RINGER – Excellent article – Thank you…
    In my opinion, Van Jones is deliberately misusing the term “American Dream”. It is a term and liberty
    that Obama has been trying to take away from Americans.
    Van Jones knows that the term will get our attention, but Van Jones has lost his credibilty.
    TO: VAN JONES, you know very well that your definition
    of “American Dream” is not the same as what Americans believe in. Your “American Dream” is Marxist/Communism,
    with redistribution of wealth. Keep your dream. I’m going to take my America back.
    Delores Smith Delores109@cox.net

  • JR

    You don’t have an inherent “right” to liberty, or happiness or entrepreneurship, that’s a choice period. The choice of society to grant it to you or not.

    There is only ONE god given right in this world ONE…and that is to die.
    Everything else are choices and our wishes and desires. And no mater what you do, what choices you make, what desires you have or not have, in the end, God is granting you your only right…and you will die.

    • lkar

      If you make the wrong choice, you could end up dead.

      • JR

        It is still your choice, Death is the ultimate right that God granted us in his infinite wisdom. It does NOT mater what we do or what choices we make, in the end awaits God greatest gift to humanity, death.

        • Bruce D.

          I admit I am not religious but if you believe in God there is a continued life and death is that of the physical body. Your consciousness would not die therefore you would not die. So you really do not even have the right to die as your consciousness would continue. Most believe we have inalienable rights. If you believe in the collective or big government you are right to assume you have no rights because sooner or later you will get screwed out of them.

        • ValDM

          God gives us much more than death. If you were on speaking terms with Him, you might become aware of many of those things that God offers besides death. If you find death so attractive, go to your closest mental health facility, and get some help and advice.

          • Jovianus

            Val..if you are on speaking terms with your god, care to share the phone number or email address so everyone can take advantage of this line of communication you seem to say you have?

            Jeesh ….

          • TIME

            JOvIannus,

            If you understood what GOD is, then you would have the number.
            No one can give it to you, are you really that inapt that you need Some one to do it for you?

            Are you also on Government aid? Did you get your check this month? Did you know that when the Government pays you to be a slacker your a Government Prostitute?

            Jo, the Sumarian root word to take.
            VI, the root of the Roman number 6.
            ANNUS, the root of where waste materials flow by.

          • ValDM

            Juvenile,
            Oh, pardon me Jovianus, your blasphemy will be noted by the One with whom and about Whom I speak. Prayer is all you need and an acceptance that you’re not ALL THAT. Accept that you’re a sinner and ask forgiveness with sincerity and humbleness………… Forget I tried to talk to you about any of this. Some people can’t be helped and should be turned over to God. I’ll bet He can make a believer out of you.

        • TIME

          JR,

          If you only were half as smart as you think you are.
          Thus perhaps a tad of Einstine may aid you in understanding the basic format of “Time Space Continum.”

          Thus there is no such thing as death.
          Death is only a state of mind in those that are totaly Ignorant of SPACE, TIME and ENERGY.

          So your very little mind can grasp this, when you turn off the Tellie its not dead, its only off in your home, the energy is still there.

    • Bert Cundle

      RIGHT: Requires Judgement! Unless Ya Commite Suiside Sucsefuly, the Judgement isn’t yours!

      • JR

        It is Gods judgment when you will die, today, tomorrow, 10 years from now or even a hundred. Even if you chose to kill yourself, it was Gods judgment to let it happen.

        • Bert Cundle

          LOL… Speaking for God? Telling me about God? Ha, Ha, Ha, Silly Guy…

        • Kate8

          JR – Like TIME said, death is only an illusion. God’s gift, and promise, is ETERNAL LIFE.

          Death only marks the end of a cycle. Life flows in cycles. The spirit never dies, but moves on into new cycles of life.

          When we learn to love and appreciate the wonder of LIFE, we stop looking to death as an end to our suffering and…stop suffering. Start living.

          God is within you. You are looking in the wrong places.

          • Kate8

            BTW, How we perceive life is simply a reflection of our inner state. Change your perception and your life will change.

    • louie

      J. R., what is your IQ? i’m saying it’s less than zero. Nobody has a right to give anyone else anything!!! We are born with our rights & we will keep them unless we are bumb/afraid to keep others from taking them away!

      • JR

        You need a dose of reality. you are “born” with those rights, because society has granted you an environment to be born into where you can exercise those rights. If you would be born into a society that would not have the concept of personal liberty, you would not have the right.
        All your talk about rights given to you at birth is just psycho babel that has absolute no foundation in reality. Isn’t it time some of you stop living in la la land and get a dose of what really happening around you and the rest of the world….but of course that is asking to much, its always easier to live in a dream world and stick the head into the sand….and complain after wards about all others moving on and leaving you behind.

        • DaveH

          Society gave us those rights? You mean other Individuals grouped together in gangs (very large gangs)? So that’s the kind of world you want to live in JR — Mob Rule?
          Not me.

        • Bruce D.

          Many have lived in a society that did not have those rights as you state but there are those that have claimed them with acts of bravery. Our ‘founding fathers’ were such men.

        • chow

          You’re right, individual liberty depends in a society you’re born in if it’s granted or not. However, this is the US of A and in this society our founding fathers decided and put their lives in the line to guarantee that individual liberty is God given.

          Now, if you don’t believe in our society then change it. I encourage you to take up arms and change our society because for me it’s the only way. Anything less would be an insult the founders after all they put their lives in the line to create this society and for you to change it by less means is just degrading.

          • Kate8

            Society can impose limits on our physical conditions, but it cannot limit our spirit. Perhaps it is for us to learn how to transcend physical limitations. (Why do you think that mind-control has been the world’s most sought-after weapon.)

            No one places more limits on us than ourselves. Society is made up of groups of damaged, self-limiting souls. Society is nothing but a collective mirror of individual selves.

            People who are truly free don’t seek to limit others.

          • Dan az

            Kate
            you never stop impressing me.truly deep thoughts.A little soul traveling I would expect.

          • get right

            Chow, show me where in our Constitution, it says if you don’t like something grab a gun and start shooting?? You are truly a radical who hopefully didn’t have children.

    • chow

      You are a real Maxist. Our unalienable rights that’s guaranteed by our constitution and given by god to you should be given by the society (the majority).

      Democracy is an Ideal communism (no one rules everything is by majority rule). This is understood by the founding fathers and summed up by John Adams by these words, may not be exact but he said “We are a republic form of government and not democracy. In a republic there are inherent rights that are given by the ultimate legislature above, in a democracy all rights are given by the majority”.

  • DaveH

    Well said Robert Ringer.

  • Raggs

    Good article, the democommunist and the progressives think that our rights come from the government… That is simply a twisted… If the government gave us our rights than the government would be able to take them away, the founders knew this and so do I.

    • Bert Cundle

      Government Means Controler!!!

    • kilrntex

      I would like to add that “government’s rights come from US”, not the other way around. Leftist, commies, socialist, democrats, the antiChrist and all the rest of the Christian & Jew haters keep calling us what they see in the mirror. Children do crap like that and even they can’t get away with it. That’s about the only transparency in the whole regime. Whatever they accuse us of is what they are. They have only name calling to fall back on. Van Jones is as big a racist as Eric Holder, Obama, Farrakhan, Wright, NBP, La Raza and the rest of the trash in this country. They think they are up on us with their agenda. What a foolish bunch of people.

    • JR

      Do you live in a dream world?
      All our rights do come from the government and are manifested and written in the constitution.Our founding fathers where the government. All it takes for the government to take any rights away from you is to either change the constitution or declare martial law and suspend the constitution…..and right there go your “rights”” go right out of the window.
      Our rights are something that are very fragile, they can be taken away from us at the whim of the government…or if there would be a military uprising or other governmental overthrow….The constitution and the rights are ONLY binding and available to all as long as a government is in power that honors them. People who believe they are “”born “” with rights and nobody can take them away from them, have absolute no grasp on reality and how fragile those rights really are.

      • Carlucci

        JR – your post is incorrect. Rights come from God, not the State.

        “You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” And guess who said that????
        John Adams, Second President of the United States

      • DaveH

        No, JR, it is you who lives in a Dream World. Government is just people. No better people than you or I (often much worse). And they work for us.

        From the Declaration of Independence:
        “WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness—That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present King of Great-Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.”

        From the Constitution, Amendment IX:
        “The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

        From the Constitution, Amendment X:
        “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

        http://www.cato.org/constitution/constitution_en.html

      • Bruce D.

        JR says: “People who believe they are “”born “” with rights and nobody can take them away from them, have absolute no grasp on reality and how fragile those rights really are.” You make a good point but our founders did not agree with you on that. They believed they would “Live free or die”. They believed their rights did not come from government but were instead inherent in the people. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights were put in place to restrict government from infringing on those rights. These documents are restrictions on government and grant no rights. The ‘founders’ believed that rights are inherent under “the laws of nature and natures God”. Therefore government had no power to grant rights or take them away.

  • http://aol.com sean murrey

    they are so dumb making demends we dont have the money with obummers thugs and marxists causing all of this trouble.

  • Stephan F.

    I believe the confrontation in Wisconsin is just a warm-up regarding the issue of so-called collective bargaining & union rights — this single issue alone has the potential to turn the country inside-out. If the status quo is maintained and union power is not put in check then look for Tea-Party Act II, or perhaps something less subtle.

    The issue of labor unions is one of confusion, misinformation and misunderstanding, and considering its importance you’d think people would educate themselves first before spouting off with irrational claims prompted by misguided & uninformed thought. Many consider the subject of unions complicated & boring, and are therefore unable to rationally engage in conversation. And besides, they believe it’s one of those things in life you just have to tolerate, like the occasional headache. Not one person in 10,000 understands the background of these shady & parasitical organizations and how they came to be. However this issue is no different than any other in that you need to get your facts straight first, and then move toward resolution. But too many blunder by not getting to the crux of the issue.

    Like any economic problem caused by government meddling, one should always try to identify and get to the heart of the issue to be able to resolve the problem. You don’t want to treat the symptoms of the disease; you want to treat the disease. Again, most err by trying to treat symptoms. The heart of the matter in this case isn’t that teachers are in bed with unions or unions are in bed with government, or any of the other immoral & unconstitutional behaviors conducted by these people. These are just the typical symptoms that always occur when government meddles with the economy. The absolute heart of this issue was the passage of the notorious National Labor Relations Act of 1935 (aka; The Wagner Act), and the unfortunate decision by the Supreme Court to uphold it. This immoral law has been the cause of all the negative & unintended consequences (symptoms) we see today and, unfortunately, that which also goes unseen. The solution here is simply the repeal of Wagner and all previous & subsequent laws that illegally & unconstitutionally empower government & unions. Were that to happen you’d see all these problems simply evaporate into thin air. This is the point that needs to be driven home so that people understand how to correct this terrible problem that enslaves us inhabitants in the private sector.

    For further study of the history & origins of unions I highly encourage you to read Mr. Armand Thieblot’s Unions, the Rule of Law, and Political Rent Seeking – see link below.

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-2.pdf

    • DaveH

      Good comment, Stephan. Thank you.

      I might add that before the legitimization of the Federal Reserve, there were indeed economic collapses, but the excesses were quickly corrected by Free Markets. Then the Federal Reserve was created supposedly to protect us from such collapses. That was in 1913. Just 16 years later we had the economic collapse that was to become the Great Depression which lasted for more than 10 years under the stewardship of the Federal Reserve and FDR. One would think people would learn and throw the rascals out. One would think wrong.

    • DaveH

      Good comment, Stephan. Thank you.

    • Dan az

      Stephan F.
      All I can say is wow so precise and to the point exactly.Thank you!

  • Andy

    I am a strong conservative that supports the republicans on most everything, except when it comes to unions. The unions are not saying that it is right to steal from one to give to another, but it should be a right to be able to negotiate for their standard of living. If the employer has the total right to say what you are going to make and what your standard of living is going to be, than the politicians work for the american people and when we vote we should get to say what their pay and benefits are. For some reason what the politicians think is good enough for us, is never good enough for them. We can’t negotiate a retirement, but the government takes my tax dollars without my permission, and gives themselves a retirement! They think that we need either government health care or no health care, but I have to pay for the politicians health care. What is good for the goose is good for the gander! With all of the wealth and power working its way to a few at the top, American will become a third world country, just as so many other countries are. Americans better wake up before we are all slaves of a few wealthy people. Why cant we get a politician with good moral values and still support the hard working people in this country, it makes me truely sad for this nation.

    • Bob

      You are not a conservative if you support unions any more than a person is pro-life if he or she supports the scumocrats. Unions are communist/terrorist organizations who use violence and intimidation as part of their “negotiation” strategy and to use violence to get money is robbery. The main goal of unions is to reduce production while increasing compensation. I have worked both in the public and private sectors and in both cases the unions reduced the level of work down to a level that was ridiculously low. The only persons who benefit from unionism are those who are greedy, lazy, and those who use union dues to support those who are destroying America.

    • Stephen Ray Hale

      You also failed to read or understand what the author of the article was saying when he said we actually have the individual right to bargain for our wages, something found in the Bible itself, but we do NOT have any basic right to bargain collectively when that denies the true employers, the people, THEIR say. Governments are servants, and servants do NOT DEMAND from their masters anything that is contrary to their commission to protect the LIVES, LIBERTIES, and POSSESSIONS of the people. And in case you have not had a chance to see what God basically says about this, see what John the Baptist said to the people wishing to be Baptised by him:

      Luke 3:10-14(KJV)

      10And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?

      11He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

      12Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?

      13And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.

      14And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

      • Andy

        I am very well versed on what the Bible says, so this means that the wealthy and the employers will just volunteer to give us what they have an abundence of, unfortunately we all know that they are not all Bible believing Christians that will give as they should.The Lord also has alot to say about being a slave to your earthly masters also.
        1 Timothy 6:1-2 ESV / 2 helpful votes
        Let all who are under a yoke as slaves regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these things

        Yet I will bet that you disagree with slavery, if we follow what the Lord says here than there was nothing wrong when this countrywas involved with slavery! Why no response on the politicians pay, they work for me and I want to cut theirm pay.

        • chow

          You don’t have to work for the master you don’t like you can find another. I believe that’s what God is saying. You’re not a slave go find another job if you don’t like what’s given to you.

    • chow

      My friend you are not a conservative. Anyone who starts their argument with declaring their side and argue against it is a liar.

    • Bruce D.

      Andy teachers are part of government who represent the people so they are the government. As taxpayers we have the right and the duty to reign in government when we feel they as teachers are getting out of control. “Scott Walker’s proposals will dramatically improve education for children, allowing for merit pay, the firing of incompetent teachers and even school choice.”

  • Victor

    Yes, they ALL have to go. What happened in Tucson, Arizona is only the beginning…politicians everywhere had better take note, the electorate is FED UP and we’re not going to take it anymore. Anarchy is right around the corner and it won’t be pretty! Just ask the people in the Middle East.

    • kilrntex

      You got that right! When all hell breaks loose we will be ready. While the left is out there running their mouths and talking about the change, the Patriot Americans are stocking up on everything it takes to survive. My suggestion to all conservatives is to do the same and as boy scouts say “Be Prepared”!

      • JR

        What makes you believe the left isn’t preparing? Are you so short sighted to believe only the conservatives have any intelligence? You are underestimating the enemy…and it will bite you in your arse. Napoleon underestimated his enemy too, and look what it brought him.
        I know many on the left who have food weapons and munition stored, go to survival training and learn how to use those weapons including joining the military to get trained…..not because they think the government will come and get them, but because they fear that the right wing calls for a revolution will gain momentum and they want to be able to defend them self against it.

        • DaveH

          You don’t need to prepare for anything. Just leave us and our property alone, and we will leave you alone.
          I don’t take your kind for granted at all, because you have one big advantage over decent people — no morality. So while the decent people may be wondering if it’s moral or not to take your life, your kind will pull the trigger without hesitation.
          The advantage we have over you kind however is that we aren’t a bunch of whiny, useless people who are going to run at the first sign of hardship like Saddam’s armies ran when the US attacked. Note that I do not advocate our presense in the Middle East, I was just using that as an example.
          If I was in your camp, JR, I would be a little less interested in promoting violence.

          • JeffH

            Hear Hear! Well said Dave.

          • get right

            DaveH, why no comment to Chow, when he was advocating grabbing a gun to fix what he doesn’t like?

        • Bob

          I can just imagine what “survival” training consists of for liberal regressives: Stealing 101, Welfare Fraud 102, Rape and Murder 103 and the like. Face it, parasites can’t survive without a host and no amount of survival training is going to change that.

          • DaveH

            I love your last sentence, Bob.

          • Dan az

            Bob
            LOL! so true!I’ll have to remember that one!

        • Jeep

          “What makes you believe the left isn’t preparing? Are you so short sighted to believe only the conservatives have any intelligence? You are underestimating the enemy…and it will bite you in your arse.”

          Really? So, please tell us, your “enemies”, what is it that you are preparing for? Do you plan to take “welfare” payments by force? Are you planning tax hikes to support you by the point of a gun? Or, are you planning to take “free healthcare” and then jump on public transportation to your neighbor’s house to demand that he pay for it with pistol in hand? Or, maybe you plan to go to your next job interview with a suicide vest strapped on and threaten to use it if he will not hire you at your demanded wages and compensation?

          Really, JR what are you preparing for exactly?

        • chow

          You got it all reverse. The left wingers are the one’s calling for revolution, just look at WI and Van Jones the subject of this article. Besides, what do we right wingers have to revolt, we believe in our constitution and way of life the way the founding fathers has intended it to be. As far as I know you left wingers are trying to change that by electing the thieves to steal from us and take away everything we have left including changing the constitution from the judiciary branch but you’re unable to take apart the constitution just yet that’s why you’re resorting to Egypt style revolt.

  • bob wire

    So the dire is to turn back the clock and somehow things will improve for you or perhaps ~ everyone?

    And just how far back are we suppose to go for this idea of “wellness” to occur?

    These ideas that you entertain, where did they come from, how did you acquire them? Have they always been a part of you or have they been shaped and honed over a period of time?

    “As Democrats have realized for decades, agreeing to the suicidal demands of public-sector unions can keep them in power.”

    I’m not exactly sure what that means. But it implies that the key to the DNC being a contender in the political process is directly linked to the strength of unions across the country and this is seen as a bad thing.

    This “bad” is bad because? You don’t agree with their agenda? That the political process is not affording you and your selected candidate enough power and sway over political process? Is it not so, excluding 44′s tenure, conservative administration have dominated the White House for the past 30 years and more?

    So I left to believe you disapprove in America’s form of government as it appears you wish a one party rule system, in particular your party!

    That you use the current state of affairs as a back drop, one that was impart created by the domination of conservative rule to offer validation for your convictions is at it’s best laughable and at it’s worst a bad joke.

    I wonder what kind of people are you, how did we get to be a nation of any greatness carrying such a heavy load, with people so self centered and selfish. People that want it always their way and willing to kill any opposition that prevents them from having it?

    “They have been led to believe that their desires are rights, and that includes the right to have the government take someone else’s property and give it to them simply because they want it.”

    I don’t know about someone else property, ~ I’m more inclined to believe they expect commitments honored! This commitment is a binding legal document and a two way street! It’s an agreement! Surely your mind is capable of gaping the need and the nature of “binding” agreements?

    Civilized man as long understood the nature “binding” agreement. ~ When these “binding agreements” effect many thousands of people, each interest elects small groups or committees to represent them in “binding arbitration” ~~ are you offering to us some “BETTER WAY” to do this today? Some better way of conducting business?

    And ~ Yes! They have been led to believe! Please understand, there is ways to approach such issues of changing “agreements” but Governor Walker is not using one of them.

    Until you do find a better way, ~ you are just blowing a lot of hot air with your Tea Party protest. For today, you are telling all American’s that you are not to be trusted with matters of any importance and blinded by your ideology.

    • Jeep

      bob, reading the gist of your statement, are you saying that you don’t support the democrats walking out? After all, Republicans are in control in Wisconsin…legally…so, following your logic, wouldn’t that make you “self centered and selfish” for not supporting the party that was elected and currently in power? By your reasoning should you not also be supporting the Republican’s as they seek to limit spending in Washington?

      • bob wire

        Jeep, I accept the notions of parliamentary procedure and worthy opposition to a game with no end while any partisan defeat or victory unclear and always uncertain.

        Any win could potentially be your demise or any defeat could be your victory.

        “This” pitting the middle against itself might offer short gains but in the long game it will be a defeat to those that crafted it and to those that supported it. The rest of American’s don’t think as you think. You have sided with big business and the entitled by wealth and again the rest of Americans. I question how it’s going to work out for you.

        Governor Walker was using Parliamentary Proceeds, the clock , a majority to prompt a very unpopular piece of legislation that might well directly affect millions of American in a very negative way. These same Parliamentary Rules have yet to be broken.

        If anything Jeep, over the recent months, most Americans that have been paying any attention have come to see and accept that a “minority” is not something that be completely ignored by virtue of being a simple majority.

        For the moment, this is a stalemate. ~ Relax, someone will blink soon and the game will continue. I think it’s a wonderful thing to watch play out.

        • Jeep

          bob, my sworn enemy, I hope you see that I was only pointing out that this IS still a Representative Democracy. There should be a shift in “power” from time to time to keep our democracy strong. I find it amusing that, depending on the decade, one could find examples from either end of the political spectrum of the other side crying, “Foul!” I seem to recall recent statements from the left such as, “We won…get over it”, and “We don’t mind the Republicans coming along for the ride, they’ll just have to sit in the back.”

          • bob wire

            Well JEEP, ~ some days we are the bug and some days the windshield!

            Be still sad heart and cease repining

            behind yon clouds the suns still shining

            Thy faith is a common fate of all

            In every life some rain must fall.

            “longfellow”

            I enjoy worthy opposition and sparkling wit

            We’ll get to the bottom of this, it ain’t over and even when it is over, it’s just beginning.

            I think the DNC needs to find a better way to fund candidates but there is a balance of power that needs to be maintained that best offers a general consensus of the American population. An imbalance would not be healthy for all Americans in the long haul.

            Maybe this is the start of a beginning and not an end. ~ I’m just too easy to get along with and that’s why you like me so much! LOL!

    • Bob

      Bob wire: You and Happy Anus both contribute nothing but liberal lies to the conversation. The simple fact is no one deserves a certain standard of living, particullarly those who are not willing to work hard to pay for that standard of living. Americans have been sold on the lie (by unions and scumocrats) that we can do less and less for more and more without negative consequences. These same liars are trying to tell us that the productive have an obligation to pay the unproductive such as yourself a generous wage for stingy output. And, to top it off, you villify the productive when they try to move their companies to another country where unions are not as strong and where people still have a work ethic or when they say it is time to end the ride on the gravy train that you parasites have been on for decades. Someday, I hope you have to deal with reality rather than fantasy, then maybe you will understand.

      • bob wire

        And it’s for you to decide who is working hard? I’m surprised you find the time with head some far up big business back side.

        Do you really believe the wealthy have plans of showing you fairness and benevolence Bob?

        Bob , to you believe the wealthy in this country need your protection? That they really suffer without your support?

        and !

        I’ve not told one lie, so put up or shut up and quit labeling people , unless of course you don’t mind it if I do too. I know many!

        These workers don’t want benevolence, they don’t want love, they don’t want spoken promises. ~ They want a commitments honored by binding legal contract. ~ If peoples word and commitment can’t be counted on, I tend to get very hard to get along with myself. ~ Maybe you really don’t know just how bad things can get.

        If you want to settle for a pat on the head and a “Good Boy” that up to you Bob! You be that way. A good butt boy is always handy to have around ~ but smart people do not conducting business is such a fashion Bob.

        • Bob

          You tell no lies? What a joke, you are sitting there with your Communist Maifesto and your liberal playbook writing nothing but lies. The fact is, no one owes me benevolence or fair play and I have always had to work hard to survive which is as it should be. Your are right in one thing though – I am sure that my definition of hard work is vastly different from what a collectivist slug such as yourself would call hard work.

          • bob wire

            I beginning to believe the better part of you must have ran down your mothers leg. It’s clear you are short some parts. You don’t know much about “anything” much less me. I’m left to think everything “must be” hard for you with the way you offer up your commentary.

            It’s so HARD! Life so hard! I bet you do work hard! Walked uphill to school both ways! Life is hard for smart people, the dumber , the harder.

            Tell us,~ did your mother ever put a road map in your sack lunch or were you raised by wolves?

            ~~~~~

            “I find it appalling that a Union can take money from it’s members and turn around and contribute to political campaigns, mostly Democrats. Especially when that Union represents GOVERNMENT workers and negotiates with government employees. ”

            Well I wouldn’t call it “appalling” anymore then special interest given the opportunity to contribute unlimited funds to a candidate of their choice and not disclose their name.

            I find both equally bothersome and adjustment warranted. I see room for serious negotiation. Don’t you ?

        • chow

          Binding legal contract? what’s that? You make a deal with the Democrat in power that can promise you whatever you want is a legal contract but when a Republican gets elected and want to renegotiate it’s not a legal contract?

    • Bob

      What about the binding agreement the arch-communist FDR made when he set up the now almost bankrupt socialist security scheme? That binding agreement went by the wayside when the money was used to fund programs for parasites and to fuel the malignant growth of our government. I guess liberal regressives only worry about binding agreements when it suits them.

      • bob wire

        I know of no such person, I think that perhaps you created him in your mind. What else must lie hidden there? You know they have some great medication for dementia these days. People are longer are required to wander about offering a good argument for birth control.

        • Jana

          Wow, this is too weird and doesn’t need or deserve a reply.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Bob, until both sides step back from their political parties (it wont happen easily) and realize that they BOTH have been led to situations that keep each other at each others throats..nothing in this country will ever change.

      I do not propose that the Libertarian party is the solution, but I will say that we as a people have made it very easy to be manipulated by retreating into only political parties.

      What I see is good decent people (mostly everyone here)fighting each other while the baStards who created this whole problem sit back and laugh–all the way to the bank!
      This includes the Unions, Wall Street, and the Corporate media are only a few.

      Neither political party is innocent, I am lost as to why Americans havent fired them both yet.

  • nutz

    To distort the Bard first kill all the union school teachers. For they are the value spreaders and the values are fuzzy thinking and communistic ideas. More Power to the Governors who are working on these skanks

  • nutz

    Bob wire wants to discuss binding agreements what does this Government think of that why they stole the preferred shareholders money when they took over GM. Change you can believe in, liebensraum, slogans of evil for the gullible.

    • Bruce D.

      Also those on the left only view the Constitution as a binding agreement when it suits their needs. Other than that it is viewed as a living document that changes as society becomes more socialistic.

      • bob wire

        Your are mistaken. A binding agreement is binding and subject to all parties of the contract.

        It appears you confuse Governor Walker’s action with the term “Liberal”. To just throw the word “liberal” at everything you find confusing or annoying does little toward explaining yourself and your ideas other then communicating a disdain of sorts.

        • Bruce D.

          I didn’t use the word “liberal” Bob.

    • JR

      lol, liebensraum? There is only one place you find that, and that is in a bordello.

      • ValDM

        It appears you are as ignorant of history as you are most everything else. Liebensraum was a program in Nazi Germany where people (generally women of a conquered country) were conscripted as baby machines to create the new Aryan race. These women were measured all over, looking for “desirable” traits and then matched with certain Nazi officers with the same “disirable” traits to create offspring for the new Aryan race. Most of these children are still around, but many do not know of their heritage.

        • Jeep

          In JR’s world that is an acceptable use of govt “power”.

        • Al Sieber

          ValDM, thanks for bring that up about Nazi Germany.

    • bob wire

      “Bob wire wants to discuss binding agreements what does this Government think of that why they stole the preferred shareholders money when they took over GM. ”

      I love a post such as this. I can openly tell you that I don’t know what an “preferred shareholder” is or tell you what went with shareholders money.

      But I can tell you this, ~ This quarter, Gm has posted it first profits since 2004. ~ I can tell you that any money shareholders might receive is predicated on profit! Any “binding agreement and disbursements is subject to these profits!

      I can tell you that these investors are gambling with hopes of potential “gains” and if they have been holding GM shares since 2004 their reasons for doing so is unique to each investor.

      Now exactly what that has to with Labor commitment and wages is the word “legally binding contracts” so enough of your smoke a mirrors nutz.

      These state employee’s are not gambling unless it to be linked with their pension funds and then they too must accept the virtues of the gamble and abide by the binding agreement of the contract.

      It’s not rocket surgery!

      I take it that we are attempting to discuss the same thing?

  • Dave Carr

    Now we’re saying all unions have a communist agenda? I believe in balance, and yes, many unions have gone way too far and need to be reigned in. However, if all the power goes to the employers, we have conditions like the coal miners of old, etc. There has be a balance between the two that is attainable. If you have forward thinking businesses, who treat their employees fairly and with respect, there is no need for a union. Unfortunately, greed comes into the picture and this is not always the case. Unions have their place as long as business owners choose short term profit at any cost, damn the long term consequences.

    • ValDM

      So how do you equate this with teachers and public employee unions? They aren’t coal miners. I don’t see anything in their workplace that really needs addressing. If the workplace is unsafe for the employee, if follows that it’s unsafe for the students or the taxpayer. From what do the public sector employees need protection? When does the taxpayer (employer) get a say in this process?

  • Stephen Ray Hale

    I am so tickled that this point has finally been made concerning the “rights” that public employees are demanding, which indeed is the right to force government to steal from the people without their effective consent and give it to what God calls “his servants” authorized to BENEFIT the people. John Locke the mentor of the American Founders says that the aim of government is to protect the LIVES, LIBERTIES, AND POSSESSIONS of the people for their good. In John Locke’s Second Treatise of Government, I understand that raw freedom is not what is good for the people but the subset of freedom called Liberty, when Locke early placed Liberty in contrast to License (particularly the so called freedom to suicide which is contrary to the design of God to place us on this world to LIVE). So the best definition of Liberty is THE FREEDOM TO DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT (and knowing the Proverbs which say “there is a way that seemeth right unto man but the ends thereof are the ways of death, we must add:) AND THAT BEING WHICH IS RIGHT IN THE SIGHT OF GOD. I am tickled to hear from some of the commenters what I have seemingly been shouting out alone, Government has no business in the people’s responsibility of charity and the education of our own. By practice, governments cannot even DO charity in that charity is the word translating “AGAPE” in the Bible which was the word the Bible writers used for unconditional love. Governments cannot give largesse, basically from monies stolen from the people without their effective consent, to anyone without mandates, strings, CONDITIONS, and overt and covert demands for political remunerations. Government’s usurpation in the responsibilities of the people to educate their own and charity is government entanglement in religion…the Biblical definition of pure religion is as found in James 1:27(KJV): Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. That the people, NOT government, are responsible for charity is found in the report of John the Baptist administering Baptism for those repenting when the people AND GOVERNMENT SERVANTS ask John what they are to do to prove they repented:

    Luke 3:10-14(KJV)

    10And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?

    11He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

    12Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?

    13And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.

    14And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

    WHOH! what a serman to the very folk in Wisconsin that are protesting:

    • Thamera

      Well said, but sadly Locke, Emerson, Thoreau, the founders etc., are not studied in schools anymore. I am fortunate to teach at a charter school that embraces these teachings as well as many others; but I do not see them teaching them at the public schools. You mention Locke and probably most people have no idea who you are talking about which is part of the problem. The progressives have done an excellent job in revising history and “dumbing down” our children. It is so sad to see so many young people just “fall in line” behind people like Van Jones. As a parent, I make sure to discuss what my children are being taught in school and am fortunate to have a wealth of information at my fingertips to present an alternative point of view starting with the “5000 Year Leap”. It should be required reading in every school in the nation; however, you will not find it in the public curricula.

  • http://WeThePeople Jean

    It is called “We The People”: Not we the “Hispanics” – Not we the “African Americans” – Not we the “Whites” – Not we the “Unions” – Not ME OBAMA – etc. It is all inclusive and when our Chief starts to separate everyone into all these little groups pointing his wicked little finger when ever and at what ever he wants with his tastless banter – AND “UNCONSTITUTIONAL” retoric then it is “Divided We Fall”. Lead on Wisconsin – go down in history as the one State that lead the way to the right equality regardless of these intrusions from the White House – LEAD ON.

    • kilrntex

      RIGHT ON! RIGHT ON!

    • bob wire

      And that’s exactly what you are attempting to do, divide.

      We collectively decide the complexion of our government and build our party and affiliations with our single vote and support. These appointed and elected collectively work inside the boundaries of “worthy opposition” and “parliamentary rule” to offer dominion over “willful” citizens that have (for the most part)and accepted this constitutional rule of law.

      And yet you kick, whining and bawling with every step of the way.

      I don’t mind you’re “opposition” and hope you find some appreciation in mine. But If you can’t enjoy the drama it offers without being ugly and nasty, politics is no place for your wittle head to be. Maybe a snow cone stand! I understand some bring down $40,000 per years, that’s not bad for 4 months work!

      I didn’t approve much of what happen to this nation from 2000 to 2008 but I didn’t try to reinvent the rules, form action parties, attempt to destroy the GOP (didn’t see they needed the help) or behave in unflattering Un-American ways because I wasn’t getting my way. Why should you feel so empowered and privileged?

      I like the worthy opposition, but much of this I see a “baiting” ,”frivolous” and truly cloaked partisan politics to hide an extreme far off the chart right wing agenda.

      Will it work? maybe? you have enjoyed some success.

      But for the record, you are not anywhere close to main stream America and do not represent the spirit that our nation was founded in.

  • http://msn.com Wizzer

    To Stephen Ray Hale – brother you have it absolutely right! However whenever I have asked any pastor to explain to me if when Jesus said to “render to Caesar that which is Caesar’s” if Caesar said render 100% of everything you have to me and I will decide what you can keep.
    Would I or you (pastor “man of God”) comply willingly without grumbling? Or would you run the other way when you saw Caesar coming? I would love to hear your opinion. I’am being ruined by Caesar. So much so that I can no longer pay my mortgage or provide for my family.
    But because I am self-employed Caesar says I can’t draw unemployment.
    Caesar (county appraiser) said my home value has declined by 24K, but Caesar says too bad, your property taxes are going to go up $640.00 for this year 2011. When I call Caesar and tell him / her (county appraiser) I can’t afford to pay an additional $640.00 this year Caesar says too bad. So when I am foreclosed on and the bank repo’s this property and I don’t pay my mortage or property taxes how does Caesar and his disciples benefit? I can probably stay here for a year or more without sending in a single dime. The bank gets this home back and because it is in a very rural area it will probably sit empty for who knows how long? My neighbor’s repossesed home sat empty for two years before it “short sold” for about 1/4 of the value it was originally bought for. How does hundreds or thousands of empty properties in my county sending in no property taxes help all the teachers, firefighters, police and other public servants who refuse to look at the facts help them with the shrinking state budgets?
    As a Christian I have to tell Caesar – “sorry pal I’ve got no more money, go ahead and lock me up”. When I don’t file a tax statement, and Caesar (I.R.S.) comes calling all I can do is say I did my best to comply, go ahead and lock me up because I am no longer participating in your corrupt system.

    • Carlucci

      Wizzer – You might want to look this over regarding foreclosure – it is a free ebooklet download:

      http://www.consumerdefenseprograms.com

      MERS is mentioned in the booklet. Check this link out after you read the booklet and it will make sense. This just happened last month.

      http://www.zerohedge.com/article/judge-finds-mers-has-no-right-transfer-mortgages

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Wizzer, there is another translation to that quote, it is talking about respect, not $$. We have been mislead in that, just like the 3rd Commandment…Whic has nothing to do with Vocabulary….it has to do with Taking Actions Under Gods name. :) The IRS (in case you didnt know) is a Private company. Dont believe me? Check it out..all IRS are listed under the better Business bureau. You cant be listed by the BBB unless you are Private. :)

      • Carlucci

        That’s right. They are the PRIVATE collection agency for the PRIVATE Federal Reserve.

    • Stephen Ray Hale

      Brother Wizzer, I should have been able to get to you sooner, but here is some Bible information concerning “Caesar.”

      Did you know that God has an opinion of what He considers a threshold of slavery? In his very words are the following in His answer to the Children of Israel demanding a King, and a discontinuance of the Theocracy:

      1 Samuel 8:15-17(KJV)

      15And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.

      16And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.

      17He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants [SLAVES].

      If you read concerning Joseph and Pharaoh, you will see that during the famine the people eventually ended up selling their land and themselves into slavery for food. Pharaoh redistributed the people onto land that used to be theirs, gave them seed, but only demanded 20 percent of their increase. This was people in ABJECT slavery without property even, only required to give twenty percent back to Bib Government. What type of slaves are we practically.

      But concerning us being slaves in America, if we were, the Bible tells us how to be the best slaves in the world but were we to be made free, the Bible tells us that we can no longer go back to that but to maintain our freedom.

      1 Corinthians 7:20-24(KJV)

      20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

      21Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.

      22For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord’s freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ’s servant.

      23Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

      24Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

      Every man in America is free, and even the negros were freed, so none of us have the right to go back into slavery again.

      Perhaps when we tell government that they have up to 9.99 percent to share among Federal, State, and Local taxing authorities, but if they attempt to go beyond that, we are going to take that rifle of ours off the rack above our doors…. The state has placed itself in a state of war with the people when they tax us beyond our ability to give consent. This is what John Locke says, the mentor of the founders of our country.

  • Thamera

    It was very interesting to read some of the article written by Van Jones because it is easy to see how people, especially young, impressionable, malleable people would find his philosophies appealing; especially people that don’t know history because it is written with a lot of “feel good fluff” that disguise the real intentions and consequences behind it. And, as always, I am constantly amused by the so-called open-minded progressives that claim to be so concerned about people’s rights, yet they are the first to jump on the bandwagon of “class warfare” and vilify anyone that doesn’t agree with them (aka ALEX, POLSKI and the like!!!)

    I myself, am a teacher and come from a long line of educators and am ashamed and disgusted by the “cry babies” in Wisconsin. SHAME ON THEM!!! I would sincerely doubt that any one of them have ever read the words of our founding fathers. They could all start by at least reading “The Proper Role of Government” and see what it says about the “do-gooders” in our society. They will be our downfall.

  • Thamera

    P.S. Or at the very least read books like “Animal Farm!”

  • Angel

    Whatever the outcome, Governor Walker has put a national face to a national agenda. And the opposition media doesn’t have any “gotcha” moments on him – that phony phone call was pretty tame (and much ado about not much).

  • William the Kid

    I totally disagree with everything stated in the first paragraph. What has a contract to do with Van Jones. A contract is a legal document that spells out the responsibilities and obligations of the parties of the contract to each and the other. There are contracts for goods like you find at an auto dealership where the terms are spelled out and the parties can use the test of dedicated self interest to decide to accept the terms or not. Usually this type of contract is fairly one sided and the terms are dictated by one side to the other. The buyer can look over the contract and decide to accept or reject as a whole. Service contracts are more on the order of what is used in the NFL with regards to labor where it is recognized that one of the parties has a special ability or skill needed by the other party and normal hourly wages would not cover the benefit one party derives from the use of the ability or skills of the other. Within these contracts, medical coverage and retirement benefits are the norm. the two sides negotiate until both are satisfied that the arrangement is mutually beneficial and that both sides are willing to enter into the contractual agreement. This second kind of contract is what is in place in Wisconsin. The Governor of Wisconsin wants to unilaterally change the type of contract offered to the first type. I understand his stated reasons and I can sympathize with his goals as stated. It is his unstated goals and the law of unintended consequences that causes me concern. You are absolutely correct in stating that no one has the right to pillage the possessions of another. But both Parties do have a right to exercise dedicated self interest. It is my personal belief that Walker can and will accomplish his goals. I am not so willing to vilify him for doing what he thinks is the right thing to do.
    Van Jones is a communist oxygen thief and I am not willing to paint the state employees under contract with that brush. Exercising the right of self interest does not make one a commie in my book.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      “But both Parties do have a right to exercise dedicated self interest.” True but at who’s expence? Any Contract that has taxpayers at one end and Unions on the other should have limits or not be allowed. Otherwise its Plunder.

      • Bill Runge

        The basis of a contract is two parties and both have to agree to sign the contract to make it valid. If only one party or neither party is willing to sign then you have no contract. The public workers who belong to the union are not entitled to any benefit that is not mutually agreed to in the contract. Key words are mutually agreed to..both parties have to sign the contract. The terms that are in place were mutually agreed to by someone or there would be no contract. Walker is under no obligation to accept any terms of any contract, and neither are the workers. So exactly where does the pillaging take place? Neither of the parties involved have a gun to their head. Even if Walker comes back with a take it or leave it offer, the workers can go to work in other career paths instead of signing. The Public workers want to retain the possibility of a mutually agreed to settlement instead of a take it or leave it. What you are going to see is that Walker is going to win this and he will give the teachers and public unionized workers a take it or leave it offer, he already has. You will see some take it and some leave it. There is a documented attrition rate of 25% within the first 3 years for beginning teachers……it’s about to get a lot higher..a lot higher for all teachers. These people have student loan payments to make above and beyond their normal living expenses…They will move into other careers that allow them to make the student loan payments and offer them a better life style….dedicated self interest at work.

        • get right

          Just wait until they start attacking the Nurses. Then all hell will break out.

  • Bill Runge

    I totally disagree with everything stated in the first paragraph. What has a contract have to do with Van Jones. A contract is a legal document that spells out the responsibilities and obligations of the parties of the contract to each and the other. There are contracts for goods like you find at an auto dealership where the terms are spelled out and the parties can use the test of dedicated self interest to decide to accept the terms or not. Usually this type of contract is fairly one sided and the terms are dictated by one side to the other. The buyer can look over the contract and decide to accept or reject as a whole. Service contracts are more on the order of what is used in the NFL with regards to labor where it is recognized that one of the parties has a special ability or skill needed by the other party and normal hourly wages would not cover the benefit one party derives from the use of the ability or skills of the other. Within these contracts, medical coverage and retirement benefits are the norm. the two sides negotiate until both are satisfied that the arrangement is mutually beneficial and that both sides are willing to enter into the contractual agreement. This second kind of contract is what is in place in Wisconsin. The Governor of Wisconsin wants to unilaterally change the type of contract offered to the first type. I understand his stated reasons and I can sympathize with his goals as stated. It is his unstated goals and the law of unintended consequences that causes me concern. You are absolutely correct in stating that no one has the right to pillage the possessions of another. But both Parties do have a right to exercise dedicated self interest. It is my personal belief that Walker can and will accomplish his goals. I am not so willing to vilify him for doing what he thinks is the right thing to do.
    Van Jones is a communist oxygen thief and I am not willing to paint the state employees under contract with that brush. Exercising the right of self interest does not make one a commie in my book.

  • jopa

    Ellen:Your tax numbers for the super rich were off by a few percentage points.You claimed they were at 39.4% when in reality the super rich capital gains tax on their investments is only 15%.The highest paid hedge fund manager two billion dollars last year paid 15% income tax because they were capital gains earning and the middle class paid around 35%.The Bush tax bill was going to only add 4% if it were to expire.Now the middle class has to pick up the differance.Their tax break is our bill now.

    • peter robison

      Jopa, The hallmark of a good right winger like Ringer (Poetic licence) is misinformation, lies and a healthy dose of “I don’t give a damn about my neighbour”. Strange, they always seem to think that a guy earning a pay check had nothing to do with their success. I wonder who taught Ringer how to write, I suspect someone making $40,000 a year while the beneficiery Ringer, makes millions. I think this is the same guy who wrote the book “Winning Through Intimidation”

      • DaveH

        I don’t give a damn about my neighbor? Funny coming from people that are hooked on Other Peoples’ Money (OPM). You really have the gaul to accuse others of not giving a damn about their neighbors as you reach into your neighbors’ pockets and steal their money? And even if we disregard the hypocrisy, the reality of Big Government has been proven throughout the world in country after country. As Government Grows, Poverty Flows. So, you who fancy yourselves as caring about your neighbors are leading them into poverty. If that’s how you care for your neighbors, I would prefer that you don’t give a damn about me.

        For anybody who wants to learn the reality of Big Government and their resultant economies:
        http://heritage.org/index/Ranking

        • bob wire

          Please explain this “other people money” Dave?

      • Thamera

        peter robison: And so continues the lie perpetrated continually by the left that the conservative doesn’t “give a damn” about their neighbor, their environment blah blah blah blah because they believe in the integrity of the individual and the constitution instead of stealing that money from the taxpayer to give to someone else. Read the “Proper Role of Government”, you might learn something about what it really means to be a caring person.

    • DaveH

      Here are the facts:
      http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

      Note that these are based on actual income taxes paid, in total, not based on a narrow category such as Capital Gains.
      By the way, while on that subject, I would like to point out that “Capital Gains” on most appreciated property are not “gains” at all. They are simply a result of the dollar being worth less as a result of excess dollar creation by the Federal Reserve. So say for example you buy Gold and it doubles in price. Is that Gold worth more? Can you buy more goods with that gold than before? Or has the dollar become worth less thus needing more dollars to buy the same amount of Gold? Then, after that phoney so-called “capital gain”, the same Government that allows the Federal Reserve to operate unfettered, has the nerve to say you have made a “Capital Gain” and tax you on it. What a bunch of thieves.

  • jopa

    There are many people grumbling today about Walkers actions but it makes me wonder how many went out and voted when it mattered.I think he may have awakened a sleeping giant.

    • Angel

      YES! The way he has taken on the press, he sure could handle a national campaign. (Anyone for Walker for V.P.?)

  • Angel

    Good question that Robert Ringer raised: “How do you fight for a “made in America” innovation and manufacturing agenda?”

    Casting aside the rants against liberals, the president, Van Jones, etc. – what should be the best way (NOT the liberal way) to do this?

    • Angel

      Let’s take back the IDEAS debate! We will WIN at the ballot box (we always have) when we have the right ideas and avoid all the partisan garbage that liberals try to pull us into.

    • Kinetic1

      Dan,
      Quoting from an article in USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-03-20-corporate-tax-offshoring_N.htm)
      “The U.S. has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, and its corporate tax code has a well-earned reputation for complexity. But despite the high rate, the U.S. takes in less annual revenue from corporate taxes, measured as a percentage of economic output, than almost all other major economies. Part of the explanation for that shortfall is the allowance for corporations to postpone taxes on foreign income.”

      So how do we convince American corporations to keep their jobs on shore? Most conservatives are quick to site the point made regarding our high corporate tax rates and would suggest that we lower, or even eliminate corporate taxes, but this idea fails to explain why, using our tax code to their advantage companies like Bak of America pays literally nothing. Our tax rate may be 35%, but clearly the effective rate is much, much less for big businesses. How does it benefit the U.S. if our corporations pay nothing towards the services they use (highways, police, firefighters, etc.)?

      Most Liberals would have us remove the tax breaks that allow such abuse so that American corporations pay the full tax burden, but clearly such a move would only serve to drive even more American corporations off shore. So what then is the answer?

      Again, quoting from the article,
      “At issue is the U.S. tax code’s treatment of profits earned by foreign subsidiaries of American corporations. Profits earned in the United States are subject to the 35% corporate tax. But multinational corporations can defer paying U.S. taxes on their overseas profits until they return them to the USA — transfers that often don’t happen for years. General Electric, for example, has $62 billion in “undistributed earnings” parked offshore, according to recent Securities and Exchange Commission filings. Drug giant Pfizer boasts $60 billion. Exxon-Mobil has $56 billion.”

      Our tax code encourages large American companies to set up off shore, but we can’t just eliminate taxes. Our stiff environmental and safety regulations also drive some corporations away, but do we want to give them free reign to pollute and risk worker safety for higher profits? I’m all for lowering their tax rate, as long as we also eliminate these loopholes. Let’s bring our tax rates in line with other industrialized nations and then enact policies that encourage American Corporations to stay home. As for environmental and safety regulations, I would suggest a tax or tariff on those companies that produce goods in foreign plants that do not meet our standards. Anything less not only encourages corporations to produce elsewhere, but also encourages polluting and poor treatment of foreign workers.

      • meteorlady

        As a small business owner you are wrong about taxes. I pay city, county, state and federal taxes, both as a business and as an individual. I left Washington State because their liberalism was costing me more and more in taxes each year. I now do business in Texas as they are more business friendly and the regulations are crushing and special interest related. As a result of the move, I pay a little less taxes, but have been able to hire two more employees. That means two more people are gainfully employed and paying taxes also.

        So you can carry on about corporate taxes, etc. but it costs me alot for an accountant to figure out my quarterly taxes, and they I pay a lawyer to figure out what a regulations means to me as a business person.

        So there will come a time when I to will consider getting out – that time is when people stop fighting for smaller, more efficient, federal government and less intrusion into my life and my business.

        • meteorlady

          Ops – Texas has less crushing regulations and not as much special interest groups getting their useless regulations passed.

    • DaveH

      The answer to that, Dan, is to get Big Government out of the Marketplace. Give the power back to the consumer to choose the winners and the losers. Give property rights back to the people.
      The solution? Vote for Individual Liberty, Personal Responsibility, Free Markets, and Limited Government. Vote Libertarian!
      http://libertarianparty.org/platform

      Shrink the Military State and shrink the Welfare State. Get us back to the roots of the Freedom that made our country the powerhouse of wealth that it is (or was).

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Right on..if only more people would figure it out.

        • mark

          Cut the military budget by at least half and stop being the world’s policeman

          • http://deleted Claire

            Never cut the military/weaponry since we still have soldiers in those hellholes like Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Bring our soldiers home, all of them. But never cut back on military. That would leave the U.S. wide open to anything. America must be prepared and stay that way. I will never vote for any jerk that wants to cut back on military. And NO, I am not a warmonger. In this day and age, it is common sense to remain prepared–for anything.

          • DaveH

            Claire,
            We should indeed arm ourselves to the teeth, but we are already well past the point necessary to defend our country from outside attackers.

  • jopa

    DaveH;Well thank you you must be a fan.

  • jopa

    Dan: Read the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States of America.We are striving for a more perfect UNION.Union made and Made in America.

    • Angel

      I agree 1000% – but what is the best way (NOT the liberal way) to do this?

    • DaveH

      Most people know that to become really efficient at anything means usually that you need to become specialized. Not many people would want a rocket scientist to do brain surgery on them. Everybody has different talents and desires, and perform best when they do what they are most experienced and comfortable with. No one locality has the expertise to do everything well. That is why Free Trade works so well (when it’s really free and not just called that by controlling Government bodies). We do what we do best, and other countries’ peoples do what they do best. We all benefit by the resulting much greater production.
      When Governments get involved they stifle that Free Trade and thus diminish the purchasing power of their overall populations. Yes, they aid certain groups (such as Unions), but that aid comes out of the rest of our collective hides. There is no free lunch. If we produce less, we will have less. The most efficient way to determine what and how much should be produced is to leave it up to the very responsive Free Market rather than politicians who are going to inevitably side with one group over another (usually based on who pays the most to buy those politicians).

  • Robert

    while many of you decry the business man you forget the real capitalist was a saint. rockerfeller and carneige both paid their employees above rates of pay because they knew that they would have hard working and devoted employees. and that is just what they got. a lot of employers emulated rockerfeller and carniege, but many did not and when unions were created they had the right purpose, but when the union bosses saw what power they had they used it the wrong way. they became power brokers and paid the politicians for favors, and a bond was created so that the socialists politicians and the power hungry union bosses could work together to run the country and take your freedom and liberty away. that is why you have such upside down world today. the politiciand and the unions and some big business men are in bed together robbing all of us and making us slaves to them. we lost our country with the likes of Wilson, FDR, Johnson, ford who were socialists.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Agree 100%..Many people dont understand the “side” relationship between: Union leaders-Politicians-Business men. its all about Control, and boy do they have it. I believe its failing though.

    • DaveH

      And leaders throughout the world have shown that they could care less about their citizens lives, as long as they are still on top. The leaders are making fools out of the rest of us.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        The whole system is currently making idiots out of all of us.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    The feds are spending $4 billion more PER DAY than they take in via tax collection. In addition, they’re printing up $3 billion more PER DAY just to help make ends meet.

    I dont know about anyone here..there is NO GOOD-LOGICAL reason for this and there will be no GOOD LOGICAL outcome. Both parties and members are Guilty.

    Had the republicans followed the Constitution during the Bush Years and the democrats during the Clinton/Obummer years..Bob migh be giving gardening articles instead of this sewage.

  • chow

    Alex, I’m sorry you feel that way about our military. For someone who has served and with children currently serving I have always thought that putting on the uniform is for the defense of the nation and willingness to put your life in the line for that. I’m sorry you feel they’re all losers and low school level of achievement, though both my children in military have PhD’s.

    You’re right about there are no more patriots in the land because we are not fighting to defend our property, perhaps someday we will have to. Even though I always thought that patriots are our military because of their willingness to put their lives in the line for our defense. I wonder what would be the result of 9/11 if we don’t have a standing military? Would Al Queda have invaded? Or perhaps we’ll be under the Mexican flag a long time ago.

    • DaveH

      Chow, although I don’t believe in the Military State, and the US as the world’s policemen, please don’t think for a minute that I think little of our servicemen. I believe the soldiers are being used by the leaders to enrich themselves and their crony capitalists. And it has little to do with Freedom.
      If we were Free, we would pay our own money for that protection, not force other people to pay. And I suspect that most of us would not be willing to pay for our Representatives to butt into other countries’ business around the world, as they now do.

      • Al Sieber

        Very well put Dave.

  • chow

    My last post is meant for JR as well. You are correct there are no real patriots in the land there has not been one since the US Civil war (or war of southern rebellion). The only true patriots are the soldiers in the US Revolutionary war and the US Civil war because they fought and died here.

    • Jeep

      Gosh Chow, I guess the dead at Pearl Harbor and in the Aleutian Islands, or perhaps the sailors in the Atlantic sunk off our coast didn’t “fight and die here”. Well, technically speaking I guess they didn’t. So, maybe you are right they were not “patriots”. Certainly, those “un”-patriotic soldiers who sacrificed themselves in the European or Pacific theaters needlessly on the alter of freedom should be villified and forgotten. Right? Of course, it would be perfectly acceptable to label Spanish American, WWI, Korean, Vietnam, Gulf War vets as unpatriotic since they died outside of “here”. But you forgot about the War of 1812, didn’t those guys die “here”? Maybe they don’t count because you are ignorant of history…hmmmm

      • chow

        Jeep, please my apologies and please misunderstand me. I was just being sarcastic in my reply to Alex or JR. In reality I deem all our servicemen as patriot and I missed my history lesson that there were other wars that was fought within our land.

        • Jeep

          chow, my sincere apologies if I missed the sarcasm boat. Maybe, next time you could include a side bar that would denote your comments as being of the sarcastic variety. I am glad to hear that you support our troops, whether or not one believes in the cause, I feel it is important to support our young men and women patriots.

  • Richard Cochran

    Two points:
    1.In a nutshell the Founders knew that rights are given by God, not created by men. As such, the only way to guarantee that peoples rights are protected is for individuals to, “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, not by taking them to court.
    2. Jones and his ilk and their redistribution beliefs are wrong because they assume that the pie is of a fixed or limited size and they say that America has too much of that pie. They claim that this is because we are evil and greedy and that hunger and poverty are our fault and the way to fix the problem is to redistribute our wealth and thereby make everyone equal. The truth is that we are wealthy because of the free market principles that we practice, (or used to practice), which have the potential to produce virtually unlimited wealth and prosperity. These principles will work for anyone who will put them into practice. This is the way to reduce poverty and hunger. If they really wanted to help the poor they would “redistribute” these principles, i.e., “teach them to fish”. They refuse to acknowledge this because their real goal is to control people, not to help them.

    • mark

      The rights for white men. I believe that blacks and women had no rights

  • BonnieMW

    Scott Walker is an American hero. He is one of the first to stand up for really saving America from financial suicide. I am not saying that people should not have the right to collectively bargain but
    they need guidelines of no violence and everyone needs to have a choice of to join their organization or not. I love reading the Huffington Post. It is singly one of the most biased accepted media in the US.
    I love how their leader Arianna Huffington betrayed her progressive followers by selling out to AOL and pocketing millions for herself
    personally. But, of course she is one of the elite and deserves it.
    I am sure Jones would throw his follower under the bus also for a few millions. They are the both the type of people who fly in on their leer jets to a environmental convention and tell everyone they need to drive an electric car or ride a bike to work and all SUV’s need to be banned.

  • http://facebook Ilene

    Van Jones has a picture in his office of Che’ Gueverra. Anyone who believes in Che’s mantra is against the freedoms of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    • Raggs

      obama has a picture of van jones in his bathroom… :)

    • DaveH

      Che was a vicious killer. For anybody to idolize him shows pretty much what their intentions are for the rest of us.

    • Jeep

      Really Ilene? Freedom for who? Those executed under Che’s direct supervision following the “revolution”? You know he was Castro’s enforcer, and supervised the mass executions of Castro’s opposition.

      • KKuurus

        Jeep and DaveH,
        I think you missed the point Van Jones likes Che. So should we like Van Jones?

        • Jeep

          Wow! Thanks, KKuurus, and my sincere apologies to Ilene. After taking a breath and re-reading her post, I erred in the context of what she was saying. I too am vehemently opposed to the recent re-write of history that has invaded college campus’ across America and I get just a little upset at all the “Che” t-shirts and bumper stickers I see around. Why not worship Mao, Stalin or Hitler?

  • Jeremy Leochner

    One thing I think on the subject of Unions is what if numerous workers have similar or common grievances against an employer and they desire for such grievances to be addressed for all. Do they not have the right to act as a group of individuals to together push for a redress of their grievances by that employer. I certainly understand the danger of Unions becoming too powerful, however having Unions with no power or no Unions at all eliminates the workers capacity to demand and ensure a safe, decent and productive work enviornment. I believe a fundemental right of our Republic is the right to speak up against percieved or committed injustice. In regards to Mr. Ringers argument on Bargaining Tables I disagree. Afterall what is the point of having the right to respond to injustice with grievances without also having the right to demand a redress of said grievances at a table of equal standing. For the sake of argument one of the primary reasons I feel the protests in Wisconsin are taking place is that the protesters felt they had no other choice. To deny people the ability to demand to sit down with those they feel and percieve as committting injustice against them violates the spirit of Justice and the Declaration of Independence and it inspires people to abandon the idea of reasoning and speaking and instead turn to rioting and protesting which can tend to be counter productive or at least hinder the process of dealing with the issues that started the argument in the first place. So I believe it is as much a right to speak grievances as it is to demand a redress of said grievances. Second in regards to Mr. Ringers argument against the “Foul Left” I would like to point out as a believer in “Leftist” ideology I do not nor have I ever believed in taking away freedoms. Also while I sympathize with the Wisconsin protesters I would never condone any extremism by them or anyone else which is why I oppose what I see as an extremist response to a percieved extremist threat from Wisconsin protesters. Finally on the views of Mr. Jones I feel I agree with most in principle. Afterall the idea and argument of everyone paying a fair share I feel is a reasonable logical argument. While I can understand words and rhetoric can be misused I disagree with the idea of diminishing these ideas to nothing more than meaningless babble. If no one is there to present the case for fair share or equal treatment there is little to stop us from being so caught up in our own argument we forget to recognize the equal rights of others to present their case even if it is different from ours.

    • meteorlady

      I find it appalling that a Union can take money from it’s members and turn around and contribute to political campaigns, mostly Democrats. Especially when that Union represents GOVERNMENT workers and negotiates with government employees. It makes no sense to me at all. Either don’t allow unions to contribute to political campaigns, or stop all government employees from belonging to unions. You can’t have it both ways.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Sadly, Americans are not educated in Labor law. 99% of what a Union gets for a price, the employees can petition the labor board to resolve for free.
      I am an employer and I can assure you that EVERYTHING a UNION does can be done by the Employees themselves, and at a lower or no cost.

    • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

      JL, your communist diatribe is exactly the reason I close my business, I now live from my investments via a trust fund that pays me a comfortable income. I said this to the assh#%$#, take your union and recreate this company, screw them, I gave them employment, with reasonable benefits and they turned on me like rabid dogs. They can starve for all I care.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        WIA: How is it communist to say people have the right to strike and ask for a redress of grievances. I dont advocate revolution or domination. I advocate Employer and Worker coming to the table as equals to discuss issues. Not workers overthrow employer and control everything.

  • WayneT

    To my fellow Conservatives, we will never convince the Liberal Socialists, the Nobama Lovers, to see that this country has prospered on a Capitalistic Society, not Socialism. From our meager beginnings after the Revolutionary War, our country have made great advancements in technology that no other country has ever make. We need to keep our country on the same track, and not head toward a Communist, or a Socialist Country as some of the idiots o his forum are wanting. Jov is one of the people I am talking about. I am sure you know the rest of them. We need the government to get out of the way of free enterprize, and let the people who what they do best. That is to grow the economy, and let let each person enjoy the frjits of their labor. The idiots that are too lazy to work can do without.

    • meteorlady

      Small problem here…. the idiots that are too lazy to work will do without for a time, then they will come after what we have….

  • Bob

    One thing that should strike everyone involved in this discussion is that you won’t see anything like this on a liberal website such as the Slutington Post. The simple fact is that conservatives aren’t afraid of debate because we have the truth on our side whereas liberal/regressive/collectivist scum curtail free speech under the guise of effiminate terms like “civilogue”. Liberals can’t survive without the “Big Lie”; it is all they have and they cannot afford to allow the truth on their websites lest some of the brain-washed zombies actually learn the truth and bolt from the prison of liberal lies. So, continue to welcome liberal/regressive/collectivist slugs and use their lies as target practice in anticipation of the day when we can rid America of all those who wish to destroy our country.

    • meteorlady

      Excellent. I love the fact that most here have valid facts and that they are courteous and don’t sling mud, call names or hurl insults. Nice to have civil discourse and I do read most of what everyone posts here.

  • karolyn

    Did anyone see the project that ABC’s World News did? they went to a typical American family and asked them to find anything in their house that was made in America, after which ABC would take out everything made elsewhere. Guess what was left? A glass bowl with flowers, a kitchen sink and some cable wires. It took them a great deal of searching, but they refurnished the house with all Made in America. Tonight they will tell the tale of the cost. They say if everyone spends 18 cents a day on Made in America, 200,000 jobs would be creted. http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/made-america-remodeling-home-world-news-us-manufacturing-labor-economy-business-13042595?tab=9482930&section=1206853&playlist=1363340&page=1

    • libertytrain

      I had wanted to watch that – will try and remember this eve.

      • Jana

        Karolyn,

        I don’t know how spending 18cents a day would do it, but I look for Made in America signs and do try to buy American. Sometimes when you need something, you can’t find it made in America. But there are a lot of things that are, up to and including fabric softener sheets and I do get. It does take a little longer shopping as you have to hunt on the label, an you can’t presume that just because when you bought it the last time it was made in America, because it might not be any more.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      K, If the GUV, would give business some incentive to return, they just might do it!_But I’d be damned. If were business owner, if I’d give the Guv a little less than half just to run a business. That’s why business, industry and manufacturing left!!!
      TAX AND REGULATION!

      • Raggs

        Yeah no kidding afterall what good is socialism without stealing money from someone that earns it in order to give it to someone that watches oprah whimpy on the sofa all day?

  • mark

    The problem with Capitalism is that for the system to work you have to have roughly 30% of the people living in poverty. In a moral society, all people deserve food, shelter, health care and education. Capitalism is fueled by greed and greed is one of the seven deadly sins.

    • Raggs

      OK.. mark move to china where you can work 16 hours a day, seven day’s a week for two dollars a month.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Sadly there will always be poor people, but you are way off. capitolism hasnt failed, because it isnt free market capitolism that we have right now. Its RIGGED MARKET capitolism. Rigged because the Politicians sold out, ended Glass stegal, NAFTA, and about a Hundred other violations of capitolism.
      In order for Capitolism to work you #1-Need “Capitol” not cheap easy money policies!
      Second you need 100% reserve banking reserves, not 10% because that means that they use the other 90% for what they want-manipulation.
      You cannot say capitolism failed, it had the rug pulled out from under it, and Americans are not educated in their own financial system and 99.999% of Americans know NOTHING about Monetary Policy!

      • Al Sieber

        Bitter L, that needed to be said, thanks.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      One last thought..I would suggest that people deserve the FRUITS of THEIR LABOR. They DESERVE FOOD if they WORK for FOOD is what I agree to say and I believe expecting FOOD for FREE is a Deadly SIN of SLOTH :)

      • karolyn

        I still go along with the old Shaker belief that the fruits of one’s labor should be shared with all, whether they work for it or not. We are our brother’s keeper and not his judge.

        • Raggs

          Did I read that correctly?
          If you have a large screen HD tv I’ll bring the popcorn as long as you buy it, we can watch oprah whimpy and giggle about how well we live off of the taxpayers.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Raggs, Kudo’s Buddy!!! :)

        • Lastmanstanding

          So that is what they are espousing at Americorps? Our tax dollars at work eliminating the work ethic.

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          karolyn… You are a cute little commie with that statement that we should share all that we have with those who work or not… I know of many who would love to share your fruits. Your post failed to include your address or any way to contact you to send them in your direction. I am sure it was just an oversite on your part.

      • Raggs

        I agree, but thats not the “NEW” american way… just ask obama.

    • Kate8

      mark – I don’t know where you get that 30% must live in poverty. That makes no sense.

      But even using that assumption, I suppose you think it’s much better to have EVERYONE (except the ruling elite) living in poverty. So, those who have the drive and the spirit to succeed should be kept down so no one has more than anyone else.

      Spoken like a true communist.

      • Kate8

        BTW, Mark. Communism is never sustainable, because there’s no motivation to work hard, since you get fed whether you work or not.

        What happens is there are too many people and too little to go around. History demonstrates that the answer to this is to eliminate most of the people, to a more sustainable number.

        Will you be volunteering to be one of the first to go?

        That’s what I thought. No. There are always enough people in opposition to cull the numbers sufficiently, at least for awhile.

    • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

      mark, I’ll take Capitalistic Greed over Socialist/Communistic Slavery, in a flash!

    • Thamera

      Mark: You are assuming that all people want the same things. I assure you, they do not. We will ALWAYS have people living in poverty because THEY CHOOSE TO BE THERE! That is what people like you just don’t get. We already have every program in place to help people in poverty. In fact we over do it! They have free medical care, subsidized housing, food stamps, SSI, disability, resources to pay their utilities and laughingly still get tax returns at the end of the year! I should know. I work with this group of people and I can tell you….they are happy with THEIR FREE RIDE and DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE! Poverty in America is a choice. Plain and simple. The poor have every opportunity, every government program including charitable organizations at their disposal and still, they do not improve their situation in life. They won’t give up their addictions or they are simply just lazy and uneducated. That is a fact.

  • http://! Angel Wannabe

    If I had the chance to ask Van Jones what he liked about America, I’d bet his answer wouldn’t fill a thimble. Which leads to another question as to why these power hungry numb sculls stay here?___The only, answer I can give is THE NWO AND Marxist Power and the Total Transformation of America as we KNEW it.__
    Michael Moore is another HYPOCRIT, in the fact that the very system of our Republic(Capitalism),which allows him to make as much money as he wants, say anything he wishes to say, and to then Bash and Tear at the Constitution, in the very same breath. stating the “RICH” Have to pay they’re fair share.__LOL_ Correct me if I wrong, but our tax system is already set up that way?!__ Again, I’m always absolutely Amazed at the Liberal Hypocrisy.
    ALL WAS WELL until the November Elections and when Walker in Wisconsin challenged the Dems and the Unions. Now we have a The 14 Toddlers in Wisconsin, who STILL continue to remain AWOL from they’re jobs, because they haven’t gotten they’re way. And Union people being bussed in the around the Country___ “Isn’t it FUNNY how the Republicans were pushed to the back of the bus, but never left they’re JOBS, even though Obama care was rammed down our collective throats?! You see what happens when the tables turn??_IT’S ABOSOLUTE AND TOTAL HYPOCRISY!!

  • Marlene

    Many years ago, I believed it was my right to vote and my opinion would be counted. While the act of voting still holds true, we are no longer sure that our votes are even counted or our voices heard through the voting process. Our protests are ignored by this Socialist administration and this man, who calls himself ‘president’, endeavors to create laws as he goes along in his effort to negate our Constitution. When will people take our once proud and strong government back? When will we demand that our Constitutional Rights be reinstated? This current regime must be ended, to quote Obama, ‘by any means possible’ before it’s too late and our country has been totally destroyed.

  • http://mitchmathias@att.net mlmbttm1961

    my sister takes her work home and she is a teacher so grinch that makes me wonder if the rest of your points are valid

    • American Citizen

      Teachers are not the only ones who take work home.

      • Thamera

        No kidding! I have been on both sides of the spectrum. I have worked as a teacher and I have worked in the private sector and teaching was much easier than anything I have done in the private sector and with a lot more benefits! So what if you have to take work home with you! Seriously? LOL

  • dennis

    May 10, 2007

    The U.S. Civil war ended in 1865, and the Reconstruction Act created five Confederacy districts essentially under Martial law protecting the blacks and keeping the peace with Federal troops. The 14th Amendment in 1868 gave blacks citizenship, and the 15th Amendment created the ‘black vote.’ The U.S. Supreme Court left the responsibility for citizens rights up to the individual states.

    In 1877, at the end of Reconstruction, the conditions for the black citizens deteriorated rapidly. The Southern states used poll taxes, literacy tests and other schemes to deny most blacks their ‘black vote.’ It was at this time the Ku Klux Klan began terrorizing the blacks to the point of a mass migration Northward in what has been referred as the Black exodus. The American Colonization Society was founded and created Monrovia, a colony in Northwest Africa. Very few blacks volunteered to re-colonize back to Africa. That colony is today the African country…Liberia.

    When investigating the evolution of the ‘black vote’ in American politics, it seems the black citizen was a ‘race’ without a country or any meaningful political representation. Then something happened that made the ‘black vote’ very important…the Russian revolution in 1917. That revolution was captured by the Marxist/Socialist ideological movement that was developing in the growing struggle between Capitalism and Socialism. After the revolution resulted in the creation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics(USSR) the movement spread to the U.S. and saw the founding of the Communist Party USA in 1919. White intellectual idealogs quickly saw the potential of the ‘black vote’ for political influence and began pandering to the black citizen and beginning to make the ‘black vote’ desireable.
    This new ideological struggle would see the enfranchisment of the black citizen and the importance of the ‘black vote.’ The ‘racial’ struggle would now join the ‘class’ struggle in American politics.

    In the early 20th Century the Socialist movement began preaching socialism would solve the problems of the working class…both black and white. Many Black churches began to preach that religion and socialism had the same goals. Some of the most influential white socialist leaders helped the black leaders found organizations like the NAACP in 1909. And the black voter found themselves the central focus of the Communist party. When the movement for desegregation and integration came about there was a loud cry that it was a ‘communist plot’ to bring about the destruction of America. Finally during the Truman administration in the 1940′s, Truman issued an Executive Order ending racial segregation in the U.S. military, and from that point on the ‘black vote’ has been a big part in the Political party competition and struggle in the combination ‘class and racial’ problems of America.

    • Raggs

      Yup and so in walks the illegal immigrates.. here we go again.

  • John Chase

    Well done! Lets get America back on track.

  • Rennie

    “The security to the rich, and the comfort to the poor, is that what each man has, is his own.” – Thomas Paine

  • JeffH

    Something everyone and all concerned parents should know is that Van Jones is indoctrinating the innocent young of America with his communism.
    http://www.breitbart.tv/van-jones-hosts-poetry-contest-where-children-slam-bush-and-big-oil-with-profanity/
    “Van Jones Hosts Poetry Contest Where Children Slam Bush and Big Oil With Profanity”

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      JeffH, along the same lines, Beck had it on today, text books apparently co- written by Van Jones, entitled “Speak the Truth to Power, apparently being taught in New York Schools.Link below and Eye opener!!!!

      http://www.theblaze.com/stories/why-are-ny-school-kids-being-taught-to-emulate-van-jones/

      • JeffH

        AW, If parents don’t wise up, America’s children and the future can’t survive the constant communist onslaught that’s been injected into the learning system. Van Jones is like Obama in that he’s charasmatic and is able to polorize people with doublspeak.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          JeffH, whats even worse, parents aren’t around today like they were when we were kids, to keep these kids on the straight and narrow either. If I went home and spoke about what we talked about at school, and my Mom and Dad didn’t like it, I knew about it. Thus I had another opinion to bounce off of, not just the teachers.

          We critically thought then, they don’t teach it today__The kids today are taught what to think, not how.

  • http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/freedom-concerns/van-jones-and-the-american-dream/?eiid&rmid=2011_03_03_PLA_P11184332&rrid=387590016 Pat Johnson

    Before anything else, I would like to know what you have done to ensure liberty for yourself and American Citizens? Pat

  • American Citizen

    Excellent article. Those who like socialism had better remember that our liberty was fought for and bought with blood and it will always be so. Their blood will be shed as well as those fighting for liberty.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Wiselady

    wiselady says:
    3-3-11

    Didn’t the communist do he same thing, of taking from those who had less so the those who worked for the goverment could have more?
    And they tell us to stop the whining!! I am willling to bet, that too many people voted with blind folds when they supported Obama who said he would put on walking shoes and march with the pro-union suppporters. Well, if those who did support the union canadites are now miserable, cheer-up you’ll be fooled again and again and in between again and again there will certainly be some cheering to enlighten you with whimsical thinking.

    Solution? start by reading and learning some history about Unions and join an organization,”National right To Work”, I’ve suported the for thirty years. They do great work and have kept me well informed.

    My message;give it there is no hope.

  • chuckb

    joe mccarthy, tried to warn the people about what we are seeing today. he was ridiculed by the media and the professors in our universities.
    we are seeing communism at it’s best operating in wisconsin. you are watching their puppet destroy our government and if all works out for them they will have taken this country right where they left off in russia. in the end we will have to fight for this country again. van jones days it all.

    • Dave

      Really? Your defending Joe McCarthy? The lunatic Right Wing fringe is out and about.

      • chuckb

        prove him wrong dave!! from the lunatic right.

  • xracerx

    “Honesty compels me to admit that if communism is the American Dream to Van Jones, he has a right to define it that way. However, my own definition of the American Dream gets back to that one unalienable right I mentioned earlier — liberty — nothing more and nothing less.”

    Jones has a right to say what he wants or redefine it, but he cannot be intellectually honest and claim that his communist dream is anything ‘American’ or founded in any principle or document in the founding of our nation. The American Dream has always been the same… and therefore cannot somehow be changed to embrace communism or socialism.

  • chuckb

    error: van jones “says” it all.

  • Dave

    “there is no such thing as a right to collectively bargain. Only individuals have rights, and, whether a religionist or atheist, any honest, rational person knows that these are rights that are self-evident and inherited at birth.”
    Only individuals have rights? What about Corporations? What about the right to assemble? You have to have a group of people to assemble.

    “The raucous protests in Wisconsin and elsewhere have emboldened the 30 percenters — the loud and foul Left that has fundamentally changed America from the land of the free to the land of soft socialism over the past 100+ years”.

    Free to do what? pollute the air and water to make a buck? Free to work in factories 12 hours a day six days a week with no overtime compensation? Free to get hurt at work and then get shoved out the door?
    The Patriot Act took more individual freedoms away than any collective bargaining.

  • Thamera

    Dave: The beauty of America is that you are free to choose your profession. If you don’t like working 12 hours a day, six days a week with no overtime compensation (which btw is a lie) then do something about it! You act as if people don’t have a choice of where they work. Go back to school, change careers, get another job, move! Is there room for improvement in the corporate world? Of course, but taking from the hardworking taxpayer is not the answer, or maybe you just assume everyone is a public union worker. Tell me, is a public union worker’s family more important than a private sector’s family? I don’t think so, yet you are telling those families to pay for the public union families. Destroying capitalism is not the answer and btw most people were unhappy about the Patriot Act. Just to be clear and do not confuse the issue: Public Unions do not have the right to demand that the taxpayer pay them anything. Private unions which I assume you are talking about in your example of underpaid and injured factory workers are entirely different.

    • Al B Tross

      Do something about it… like organize ,join a union!!.

      Why is OK for a bunch of Foreign investors to organize into a Corporation, to consolidate power and wealth, but not OK for working peoples to do the same thing?

      How much product can a company produce with NO labor force??

      • Al B Tross

        Are not public sector workers US citizens also? are they not your neighbors, your friends?

        You speak of these people as if they are not human.

        Capitalisms’ rising tides failure to “lift all boats” is the reason private sector wages have fallen to the low level of the public sector.
        It recall a Reagan cabinet member, refusing to take a $100,000 year public job in the Bush 1 admin, because he said he didn’t work for charity.
        Now public sector workers are considered vampires and leeches.
        Amazing how the authoritarian mindset forgets history.

  • chuckb

    thamera. some people think the world owes them a living. they expect a high paying job, all the beenies and lots of of overtime pay, while they work at a non-productive job, expecting to retire at 90% of their working income.
    they also expect to live in a pristine world with no pollution, all rivers running free and clear, cars running on batteries with free charging stations. mo law against drugs of their choice. at that time all smoking restrictions will be lifted to insure free use of pot along with piped in rap music.
    all fire arms restricted, no standing army, the feeling is if an invading force shows up they can subdue them with good feelings and flowers. everyone will have a home regardless of income, just contact barney frank.
    they haven’t figured out why the pawns working in the real world would resist them these luxuries, so they gather and protest. lenin said they would overcome or was that king?

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    JeffH,
    Good jobe of bring out the truth about Van Jones. Here are a few
    more tid bits about Van Jones. Obama ,one of his top adviors and friend from Chicago and close friend of hie wife, Valerie Jarett
    made the statement,:We had a close eye in the past on Mr Jones and we liked how he handled himself in Oakland Cal. This was when he was brought to Washington to become the green man or czar assigned to
    the Apolo group. He also founded a orginazition called Storm, a known Communist group.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Some other things about Van Jones. He is a SENIOR FELLOW at the
    CENTER for ANERICAN PROGRESS,WHICH HE HEADS UP THE AMERICAN PROGRESS
    ACTION FUND,funded by US tax payers and of course, GEORGE THE GREAT SOROS. Jones is also founder of GREEN FOR ALL and backed by Soros,
    Open Society and through the Tides Foundation.Jones, also holds a joint appointment at PRINCETON UNIV> At the CENTER OF AFRICAN AMERICA STUDIES. Not bad for a man only last year was Obamas Green CZAR.

  • Ridge Runner

    People like aovalanus(syn,for happy ass)will always spew shit when they ooen their mouths.Why can’t these sorry ass nogood do gooders just shut their mouths and go to work to support thetr sorry asses and not depend on robbing the people that are working ,to support them and keep them up. if a person is not able to work then they need help but it shouldn’t be made mandstory.That may not sound good to some people but it is a fact these people abuse the system and most of the time nothing is corrected.These damn thiving reps that have created all of these entiliment programs are just outright thives, yhey have used the social security money to buy votes to keep them in office and fund their pork barrel prjects at home and this was started by the demorats when they passed the bill transfering social security funds to the general fund in 1960.they are real good at defrocking the public and the fed. gov.It tsn’t any wonder that so many children are born to stngle parents because the people have been seduced for a long time.

  • Ridge Runner

    It has been said in these cmments that what these people are prtesting in wis. is they belive they are losing their rights. I have been in a union before and i know how they work .I was a shop stewart in the uaw.I now see unions as a circle jerk and there is no place for a union in the public sector.The biggest winner in the unions are the people that run them. The reason that i say that unions are a circle jerk is that every time the mrmbers get a raise the leaders get more money and the cost of the raise is passed on to the consumer.If the union is in the private sector the people’s taxes go up and not ever one affected is being compensated by the raise.What has happened in wis. and a lot of other states is the pay and benefits to the union is too much the people can’t afford to pay it.In realty the unions have become dinos because the fed gov has stuck it’s nose into the bussines’s and now tell the employer how they will run their busines’s.Osha tells them what safety measures they need.The labor board tells them who they have to hire,how much they have to pay them and how many hours they can work them.There is no such thing as free enterprise in america any more.If you work as many as 4 people then the regulations the jumps hops and skips you have to do and the taxes you have to pay and the cost of the record keeping you have to do alot of these people are selling out and investing what they have left to live on and now these lying thiving sobs are scheeming to take what they left. why would qny one in theor right mind want to start a business and have to give most of what they make to a bunch of thiving damn politicans.This is what is driving most of the business over seas these people are quiting and then the big money men are importing products from over seas and not paying import dues because of free trade agreements put in place by the congress.The congress has been controled by the demorats most of the time for years. They are the ones that hold the purse strings and yet they keep blaming the republicans for the shspe the country is in.These same people had a short fall of i.4trillion doiiars in2009 will have another one in 2010 of i.6trillion and more in2011 and you can’t realy blame any one but the people(voters) for the mess.These liberals are delibertly running business out of business and ruining our country.any one that can’t see that is totaly ignorant or totaly involved in ruining our once great country.

    • Al B Tross

      “Our once great country”

      Like during the 1950′s, when UAW members made the best cars, American middle class had one of the highest standards of living, and the tax rates for the wealthiest was 65%?

      Or do you mean the 1850′s when you could own a human, force them to labor for your profit, deny women the right to vote, and force children to mine coal?

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Ridge Runner,
    They tried to run Toyota out of business. This was Obams
    pay back to the unions. By the way, Toyota is a none union
    shop and they build, by far, one of the best cars in the world,
    if not the best.

  • jopa

    Charles;I still consider buying a Toyota anti-American when the bottom line dollar stops in Japan.If their headquarters was located in the United States of America like Ford GM and Chrysler I wouldn’t have a problem with them..Like Toyotas commercials claim “Moving Forward’.Their problem with that one is their inability to stop after the car accelerates to 100 plus mph.Toyota is a non union shop and their wages and benefits are all patterned after what the union shops provide for their employees.Thank God and the American workers and for unions.

  • chuckb

    jopa, apparently you arem’t keeping up with the world, that toyota thing was all a bunch or propaganda, no doubt started by the current admin. theycould find no evidence of thew throtye

  • chuckb

    sorry for the error. my keyboard is acting up. they could find no evidence of a throttle problem or any evidence these problems existed with toyota. do you smell a rat now? maybe barry and company trying to help out his gm unions?. it’s awfully silent out there. so abc reported.

  • jopa

    chuckb; Well after considerable thought you seem like a nice guy so apology accepted.I don’t smell a rat but there may a mouse by your keyboard messing things up for you.Wasn’t that wonderful how GM is doing today after the bailout, with higher profits than they have seen in years and over a million American jobs saved.My last car was a Chevy Monte Carlo SS and the quality and workmanship in that vehicle you would never find in a car from the land of the Samurai.

  • chuckb

    jopa, the only profit gm has showed is selling shares back to the u.s. gov. i drive a buick and they still haven’t paid back the money they owe the tax payers.i wish i had my audi back. yeah, that mouse does give me a fit now and then, also my fingers have a problem with the closeness of the keys and yes i’m a terrible typist.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    jopa,
    At what price where those jobs saved and how much did each job cost the tax payer? How much is it costing the tax payer for GM to show a profit? Why did the President and the unions try to destroy the no one car mfg. in America. ( Toyota ) As a tax payer, you better save your money, because this won`t be the last time, as long as they have
    a union, they will ask for a bail out.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Van Jones, Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright, Tony Rezko, Rham Emmanuel. All Obama close aquantainces. Need I say more? What a picture that paints.

    • Al B Tross

      in your mind, I guess that would be a finger painting.

      Lets see who the Bush family associates with, Henry Ford, who wanted the Nazis to win, Prescott Bush, who laundered the blood money stolen during the holocaust, Dick Cheney, asst chief of staff to the liar Nixon, G.H. Bush, CIA chief, man who negotiated Irans holding US hostages, later to be traded for arms, that money being used to run cocaine into the US. aww shucks, this is just too easy.

      Right-wing, Authoritarian conservative malfeasance has been the hallmark of oppression throughout history.

      http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

      • E.A.U.M.

        You left out the part about Ted Kennedy. Here let me help you!

        It was a May 14, 1983 letter from the head of the KGB, Viktor
        Chebrikov, to the head of the USSR, the odious Yuri Andropov, with the
        highest level of classification. Chebrikov relayed to Andropov an
        offer from Senator Ted Kennedy, presented by Kennedy’s old friend and
        law-school buddy, John Tunney, a former Democratic senator from
        California, to reach out to the Soviet leadership at the height of a
        very hot time in the Cold War. According to Chebrikov, Kennedy was
        deeply troubled by the deteriorating relationship between the United
        States and the Soviet Union, which he believed was bringing us
        perilously close to nuclear confrontation. Kennedy, according to
        Chebrikov, blamed this situation not on the Soviet leadership but on
        the American president—Ronald Reagan. Not only was the USSR not to
        blame, but, said Chebrikov, Kennedy was, quite the contrary, “very
        impressed” with Andropov.

        The thrust of the letter is that Reagan had to be stopped, meaning his
        alleged aggressive defense policies, which then ranged from the
        Pershing IIs to the MX to SDI, and even his re-election bid, needed to
        be stopped. It was Ronald Reagan who was the hindrance to peace. That
        view of Reagan is consistent with things that Kennedy said and wrote
        at the time, including articles in sources like Rolling Stone (March
        1984) and in a speeches like his March 24, 1983 remarks on the Senate
        floor the day after Reagan’s SDI speech, which he lambasted as
        “misleading Red-Scare tactics and reckless Star Wars schemes.”

        Even more interesting than Kennedy’s diagnosis was the prescription:
        According to Chebrikov, Kennedy suggested a number of PR moves to help
        the Soviets in terms of their public image with the American public.
        He reportedly believed that the Soviet problem was a communication
        problem, resulting from an inability to counter Reagan’s (not the
        USSR’s) “propaganda.” If only Americans could get through Reagan’s
        smokescreen and hear the Soviets’ peaceful intentions.

        So, there was a plan, or at least a suggested plan, to hook up
        Andropov and other senior apparatchiks with the American media, where
        they could better present their message and make their case.
        Specifically, the names of Walter Cronkite and Barbara Walters are
        mentioned in the document. Also, Kennedy himself would travel to
        Moscow to meet with the dictator.

        Time was of the essence, since Reagan, as the document privately
        acknowledged, was flying high en route to easy re-election in 1984.

  • jopa

    Charles;Wall street doesn’t have a union and look at the bailout they got.GM’s bailout is miniscule compared to that one but I feel so much better about the auto bailout.I am more for the blue collar worker I guess.As faar as Toyota goes fine for them if they do good in America but I would rather see real American auto companies do better.If I was alive during WW11 I know what side I would have been on and I wouldn’t have been chanting BANZAI.American made American cars gotta luv them.

  • Stephen Young

    Good article, but you missed a step!
    You said “In fact, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness really comes down to a single right: The right to liberty”.

    In reality, Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are listed in this order because life is the most precious of these truths, not liberty. If one does not have life, liberty and happiness have very little value. The right to life in such a manner that no one or group can lawfully take that away with out the consent of a Jury of ones peers. The unlawful taking of life include euthanasia, abortion and/or other forms of government/group extermination.

    Once life is established, liberty can be obtained if one is willing to fight for it. Liberty is not free, but it is available. It is a right, but not without a fight. With freedom, on can pursue happiness in whatever form that he desires as long as it does not harm his neighbor.

    John 1:4, In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    John 8:31, Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free

    Psalm 144:15, Happy is that people, that is in such a case: yea, happy is that people, whose God is the LORD.

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