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U.S. Senate Blocks DREAM Act, Repeal Of ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’

September 23, 2010 by  

U.S. Senate blocks DREAM Act, repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'The United States Senate voted to block discussion of the 2011 defense authorization bill on Tuesday, effectively halting the passing of the DREAM Act, which would have created a new route to citizenship for certain illegal immigrants, and the repeal of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

The Senate voted 56-43 to begin debate on the bill, falling short of the 60 votes needed. Following the tally, Senator Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), who sponsored the bill, expressed his displeasure with the GOP's lockstep, according to WBEZ.com.

"Where is the justice in this decision? At least have the courage to let us bring this matter to the floor, and stand up and vote 'no'," said Durbin, quoted by the news provider. "But to hide behind this procedural ruse — this unanimous consent request — is totally unfair."

The DREAM Act amendment, if passed, would have allowed immigrants who came to the U.S. as children to gain citizenship if they met specific requirements, such as graduating from high school or pursuing military service.

The "don't ask, don't tell" (DADT) policy bans openly gay, lesbian or bisexual Americans from enlisting in the military. The Pentagon is working on a review to determine the impact a repeal of DADT would have on the military.

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  • http://?? Joe H.

    Just proves that the progs aren’t invulnerable!!!! They CAN be beaten!!!

    • Bob Wire

      of course they can, ~ when did you ever doubt it?

      You’ve only been on the losing end for 19 months ~ try 18 out of 30 years of losing on for size. It’ll give you some perspective.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Barb Wire,
        What the he!! are you talking about??

        • dan az

          JoeH
          that he is a prog.and he has been on the losing side that long!

    • refuse2lose

      The only reason this was defeated is because of the elections in November. The majority of America does not want it repealed. I guarantee that when the “study”is finished they will pass this thing with flying colors.

      Just a thought here…. an illegal alien could come here,join the military and become a citizen,right? So what happens if we get a bunch of lunatics like the Fort Hood shooter who come here and enlist with their only intentions being to do grave harm to our military members?

      • CJ

        You obviously don’t know the desire of the people. This is EXACTLY the kind of bill they DO NOT want. Less government, not more. This bill will be dead IF it comes up again, which I doubt.

        • 45caliber

          CJ:

          They don’t care about the will of the people. They care about who gives them the most money. It WILL come up again … trust me.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            45caliber,
            He was answering the claim by refuse2lose above him that said that the people don’t want these bills rejected!!!

          • Robert Smith

            HI 45: >>>They don’t care about the will of the people.<<<

            Speaking about the will of the people… Medical pot is legal by VOTE, as is assisted suicide by VOTE twice.

            What was that you are saying about the will of the people?

            Rob

        • Kinetic1

          Polls show 78% (CNN poll) want DADT repealed. The only reason it was stopped is that the right knows that mid terms have poor turnout and those that do show up to vote on the right will be the most conservative. It’s the only logical answer when polls show that even Republicans favor the repeal by 53% to 40%.

      • http://comcast sal

        those poor poor illegal immigrant children……so ya – attempt to pull at the heart strings of americans…..grant them amnesty and make them citizens……and then what?……you just opened the door for these innocents to legalize their illegal parents, effectively doing a end run, subverting our immigration laws!…..nice try demoslobs!…..just like everything else – throw enough shit against the wall and eventually something will stick!…..even though the majority of americans say no no no, you continue the effort to create cracks in the law that may eventually open the doors to the flood of illegals, putting them ahead of the individuals that DO follow the law in their quest to immigrate to this great nation……

        don’t these attempts make you complicite to an illegal act in which you should be arrested and tried in a court of law…..kinda like the bozo that yells fire in a crowded theatre when there isn’t one……

        • 45caliber

          Sal:

          You know exactly what the entire idea of the Dream Act is supposed to do. You aren’t supposed to tell everyone! The Dims won’t like that!

          • Robert Smith

            Hey 45! >>>You know exactly what the entire idea of the Dream Act is supposed to do.<<<

            Wasn't it REAGAN who first did the amnesty thing?

            Rob

        • Christin

          sal,

          Not only will the Dream Act put Illegals ahead of those that do follow the Law to enter the United States, it will put THEM AHEAD of the Natural Born Citizens… you and me. They will be the welcomed new blessed Demo voters and we will be the seditious terrorists.

          NO to DREAM ACT.

          • Robert Smith

            Christin says: >>> it will put THEM AHEAD of the Natural Born Citizens… you and me. <<<

            How so? Please be specific.

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            roberto Smythe,
            It will give them the chance to go to college that some kids here don’t get. I have a kid in college right now and if it wasn’t for us paying her way she wouldn’t be able to go! Education in the united states should be for citizens ahead of anybody that comes here illegally!!! no exceptions! Specific enough???

          • Robert Smith

            JoeH says: >>>It will give them the chance to go to college that some kids here don’t get.<<<

            I didn't see that in the bill. Can you quote it?

            As far as you paying for your kid in college… Isn't that the American way? Anything else would be socialism, wouldn't it?

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            Robert Smith – my favorite alternative re kids and college is to have them responsible to pay their way – We never minded helping A LITTLE however, a free ride does not teach responsibility and paying their own way helps keep them from totally screwing off -

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Libertytrain
            My daughter is carrying 20 credits and a straight 4 point, does that sound like she’s goofing off? she also works part time and pays for her books! Her books for this semester were over 750 bucks!! In high school she was never off the honor roll and just because she attended college as well, she was not considered a freshman when she graduated so she couldn’t apply for most of the scholorships available to freshmen college students!! Then some kid from Mexico whose parents aren’t even citizens can come here and get a full ride AND citizenship??? Bullshat!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Joe, you make a claim.

            Please show us in the bill where illegals will come in and get a free college education. I wasn’t able to find it in the bill…

            Or are you making hysterical claims again?

            Rob

      • Brad

        Scarry, I’m sitting here reading and thinking if it happened once it could happen again.

        • DavidL

          Hey Brad,

          For the benefit of all here:

          1. A majority of the people, including a majority of Republicans, support the repeal of “Don’t ask, don’t tell” and letting our fellow citizens who are gay serve our country in the military.

          2. A majority of the American people support the passage of the Dream Act.

          3. Google each issue and see the polling data.

          4. If we are going to continue to discriminate against our gay citizens and treat them as second-rate citizens, then why are we still requiring them to pay first-rate citizenship taxes? Let’s establish a ten percent tax bracket for our second-class gay citizens.

          • Leon

            WeOnly gays had no problem in the past.I’m talking in before Bill Clinton started supporting Gays in the Military. Why did he do it ? Because he was a voukwagon, They don’t have to advertise what they are. It’s their choice. Keep them in the closet where they belong.
            Only gays support Gays.

          • eddie47d

            Leon: Do you keep your heterosexual lifestyle in the closet? Did you come on to women in college or go bar hopping in the military to find “chicks”? That would be pretty much out in the open and very public. Do you kiss your wife in public or hold her hand or show off your dancing skills (or lack of them)? When you watch a movie and the heterosexual couple is making love do you walk out or turn the TV off. You should for that is a public display and I bet you enjoy it. Heterosexuals advertise their sexuality all the time and everywhere. I support the full rights of all Americans. None of this picking and choosing who should should exist and who should be eliminated or moved to the back of the bus.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            edduhh47duhs,
            do you fit the last sentence of his statement??? guess he’s got his facts a little more straight than you!!!

          • Bruce D.

            The majority of the citizens in this country are second class citizens, especially the middle class. Why don’t we lower the tax rate to 10% for every one. Then government would not have enough money to give away in social programs to illegals. The way it is set up now we are inviting everyone in the world who does not want work to come here.

          • Kinetic1

            JoeH and Leon,
            What a stupid statement. “Only Gays support gays.” You sound like a couple of thick headed high school football players. Those of us who have developed beyond Cro-Magnon can empathize with people who are different from us, even you two. Try to imagine what it is like to hear other soldiers talking about their loved ones at home, knowing that you can’t say anything about yours. In fact, you may feel pressured to make things up just to fit in. No one who is willing to fight for our country should be treated this way.

            As for those who worry about our soldiers feeling like meat on display in the showers, if they’re that concerned then they must already worry about it. Personally, I rather know who’s likely to be looking at me that way than to wonder about everybody. And yes, I have been hit on before by gay men and I treat them just like women I am not interested in. I appreciate the compliment but no thanks. And just as with women who are too pushy, overly aggressive gay men need to be reported and disciplined. Trust me, women in the military have to deal with this c#*p from men all the time. Maybe it would be good for some of these macho jerks to find out how it feels.

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Dave: When you say the “Majority of Americans” you need to be accurate and say the Majority of Liberal Americans. The majority of Americans are center right in their social and economic views. They realize that gays were provided a special protected class status years ago by liberals. The majority of Americans understand that homosexuality is a perversion but is tolerated in our brave New World. The real military, with the exception of some political – oriented general grade officers don’t want to serve with closet gays let alone flamers. Dave, maybe you wouldn’t mind sharing a fox hole with some rump ranger but the majority of real men do. if the gvt. insists on allowing gays to serve in the military they should be put in their own units with their own uniforms, something in pink and lavender would be appropriate. Who knows, the psy ops aspect may just be what would terrify the enemy.

          • blv54

            I want the gays to pay their taxes and stay in the closet where they belong God calls them an obamanation so I agree with him it’s the damn satanist that caused them to start leaving the closet and come out and cause all the trouble they are making to destroy our morals so they can advance there NWO and I don’t believe for a minute most want DSDT repealed nor do they want all those illegals legalized so they can suck us dry with more welfare and vote to take our guns it’s not logical.

          • eddie47d

            Joe H. Just because you openly discriminate doesn’t mean the rest of us have to. America for all and all for one.

        • Brad

          Hi DavidL,

          All valid questions, here’s my take;

          1. Even though a majority of Americans want Don’t ask, Don’t tell repealed, does the American public understand the living and working conditions each branch of the military has? They may have a clue but you and I have lived it, for my many years. The vast majority of military members reject the repeal of don’t ask don’t tell, souly due to the fact they don’t want a gay member looking at them as a piece of meat in the shower.

          2. So you are allowing an illegal who breaks our laws by entering our country illegaly, going to school on our dime, entering the military and inturn giving them a free pass to citizenship. In the first place they broke the law, not me, what would happen if I entered Mexico illegaly; I’d be deported, same should be done here.

          3. googled each one; I can honestly say I oppose both.

          4. Gay/lesbians have the same rights that you and I have, except when it comes down to a gay person getting their azz kicked, it’s a hate crime, what happens when a strait person gets their azz handed to them, nothing. So where is the justice in that decision. A gay person can marry, just as long as it’s to some one of the opposit sex, but if they want some one of the same sex there are civil unions. If the President gats his way and the Bush erra tax cuts are not renewed; I’m married with kids at home, I’m going to see my child credit reduced by $1000.00 and the marriage penalty returned taking more money out of my pocket. So who’s the second class citizen now.

          • Bruce D.

            When there are those who are practicing degenerate behavior the Congress should not be passing legislation that would make seem otherwise.

          • Robert Smith

            Oh my Brad…

            We have the toughest army in the world, the best trained army in the world, the best equipped army in the world, and the best led army in the world.

            And you you say they are gonna quivver in their soap suds because a gay person is gonna see their pee pee!

            Riiiiiiiiight, Brad. I spent four years in the USN and half the time I was in the shower I was so tired I didn’t even know I had a pee pee, and the other half I was rushing to make muster after just getting up.

            I find it very sad that you believe that all our military is concerned about in the showers is getting hit on.

            Rob

        • Brad

          Davidl,

          I had a gay man hit on me early in my Naval carrear and I didn’t like it, it’s just not right, a man loving a man, I just want to throw up at the thought.

          • DavidL

            Hey brad,
            I certainly respect your point of view as I do your sincerity. Here are some follow up thoughts to consider:
            1.I’m not sure that a majority of military personnel are against repeal. The survey being conducted by the defense department will be interesting.
            2.The Dream Act addresses the children who were brought here by their parents. It wasn’t their choice. They didn’t commit a crime. Also, if they have lived here for very many years and know no other place, where are they going to go? It is true that both Democrats and Republicans support the Dream Act. And, why wouldn’t we want to welcome people as citizens who have graduated college and or put their life on the line to serve and protect our country? My guess, and probably yours, is that they would probably make better citizens than the armchair chicken hawks who suck all the benefits out of our free society, while complaining, and don’t lift a finger to help.
            3.I respect your right to oppose it. I used to oppose it also. Remember, in the 1970’s, a majority of Americans were against interracial marriage. It wasn’t too many years ago that a black person couldn’t sit at a lunch counter. What is the opinion of a majority of Americans about those issues today? I bet you and I agree with it.
            4.As you know, society engages in general deterrence and individual deterrence. It passes laws against behavior that is anti-social. That is, behavior that threatens, among many other things, our wellbeing and our. We assign degrees of punishment so the “punishment fits the crime”. Murder, or any violence against persons, is a crime in our society that will be punished. But society also must tell members of society what behavior is a crime, attempt to prevent it, and punish it when it occurs. Society has concluded, and I agree, that we have people being killed just because they are different from other people. Gays, blacks, Italian, Latino, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. you know our history. Society is particularly interested, obligated really, in preventing these kinds of crimes because they have been on the rise over the last few decades. We are attempting to also save the lives of our citizens who fit into the “hate crime” category. All crime must be prevented or punished. But all crime is not the same. I’m sure with your own children, you punish them differently. First time offense, punishment X. Second-time offence, punishment X +. This is right and reasonable. Society is saying, with its “hate crime” punish category that people who engage in this crime are REALLY going to regret it. Society is trying to prevent this particularly heinous crime by upping the ante on punishment. I don’t see a problem with it.
            5.I too was propositioned by a gay man. I said no. End of story. Like you, I am uncomfortable with that orientation, but I’m not going to support discrimination against those that are. I know the religious perspective, and I respect that point of view also, but the behavior IS natural. There are over 1200 species in nature that practice homosexual behavior. Google the question. (Or not)
            6.A very painful part of our treatment of homosexuals is that it has forced them “into the closet”, and to deny who they are to themselves and to others. This has, and continues to be, very damaging not just to them but to society. For instance, look at how, and how many, women have suffered because their husbands chose heterosexual marriage as a camouflage to hide who they really are. Look at the number of gay men who have “come out” who have been long term members of the Republican Party. You know, the party that stands for “law and order,” being “tough on crime”, and a “strong national defense” foreign policy. Real macho stuff, right? What about the pathetic irony of gays in the Republican Party cooperating with attacking and hurting other gays, in part, because it also servers their need for camouflage? I’m not singling out just the Republican Party. There are gays in the Democratic Party but, at least as far as I know, they have not gone out of their way to hurt anyone.
            7.There are all types of second-class citizens running around. They are not all mutually exclusive. That just means we all have to come together more and continue to make our society better for us all. Did you get a tax refund last year? Of course you did. So did I. We will be getting another one for this tax year. Your children are now protected from being thrown off your insurance because of a BS pre-existing condition. My son, who is 25 and uninsured, is now insured under my plan. Your family now has access to free preventive health care services. Your insurance can no longer drop coverage for you, your wife, or you kids because of annual or lifetime caps. The list goes on and on and on.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            DavidL,
            You want the kids to stay? fine take them from the parents and let them be adopted!!! Send the parents back to where they came from and do not let them immigrate here EVER, they broke our laws!!!

          • Winnie

            Joe h. how utterly thoughtless of you to say just have the child adopted and deport the natural parents. The child has known his parents all his life, and then he’s yanked out to be placed with people he does not know. Shame on you. If you have any children how would you feel about having your child taken by force. The Native Americans went through the same thing. What a disasterous time and consequences for both the parent and the child. I would rather see the child deported along with his parents then adopted or fostered out. How heartless can some people be.

    • EddieW

      Thanks be to God, and the many He inspired to vote against these evils!!! Now…if he will just help us get rid of the corrupt and evil people in Wash. District of CRIMINALS!!! The Military, the Pentagon, the Senate and even Obummer do not regard the Constitution of any importance whatsoever!!! How long can we keep it…Dictatorship lies ahead, if we lose it!!!

    • http://winchesterarms@live.com AZ Rifleman

      YUP!
      I know they’re not use to it but here’s a novel idea… Do the homework first- then vote.

  • s c

    Doink Durbin whizzing about ‘justice’ is as laughable as Bubba Clinton being concerned about the sexual education of Washington interns. Who the hell does that flunky think he is to claim that justice hasn’t been served?
    Only a self-deluded progressive could dare to whiz and moan about not delivering another gift-wrapped Trojan Horse so it could be rammed down our throats.

    • JeffH

      As much as I would like to, I just can’t add anymore to your comment.
      Nov 2nd can’t get here quick enough and I sure hope the voters, in lockstep, plant their shiny boots straight up all of these arrogant, out of touch progressive liberal pukes gluteus maximus.

      • TIME

        Ditto!

        • Robert Smith

          Rush has spoken to TIME!

          Thanks for showing us another follower of that drug addled blowhard.

          Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Drugs? And this coming from some a!@#$%^ who constantly talks about doing illegal drugs? Kind of hypocritical, isn’t it? Leave the patriots here alone, dirtball. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • JeffH

            Robert Smith chimes in, Polly want a cracker? bbbaaarrraaaccckkk!

          • Bruce D.

            We know what end you take it from so your viewpoint does not have much value when it involves Rush.

    • Warrior

      When your friends can’t explain why they voted for Democrats, give them this list. They can then pick a reason .

      10. I voted Democrat because I believe oil companies’ profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn’t.

      9. I voted Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would.

      8. I voted Democrat because Freedom of speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.

      7. I voted Democrat because I’m way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves.

      6. I voted Democrat because I believe that people who can’t tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don’t start driving a Prius.

      5. I voted Democrat because I’m not concerned about the slaughter of millions of babies through abortion so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.

      4. I voted Democrat because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and Social Security benefits.

      3. I voted Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the democrats see fit.

      2. I voted Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who would never get their agendas past the voters.

      1. I voted Democrat because my head is so firmly planted where the sun doesn’t shine that it is unlikely that I’ll ever have another point of view.

      • Disgusted

        OMG – that was terrific!! Applause, Applause, Applause, Standing Ovation, Applause, Applause, Applause…..repeat and then repeat again.

        • David

          Ditto!!

        • Christin

          That was GREAT Warrior.
          BRAVO!
          Wish I knew how to copy and save this stuff.
          HERE, HERE!!

      • http://naver sook young

        Very funny! Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Bob Wire

        Many good points Warrior!

        I voted democrat because your republican candidate sucked! as well as the previous GOP Administration.

        So where do we go from here?

        • jim

          EXCELLENT 10 points on how ole barry the Socialist Muslim Kenyan the ILLEGAL pres got in office!!! HOPEFULLY the IDIOTS who put him in office have learned their very painful lesson!!! VOTE, RECALL and IMPEACH NOW!!!!!!

        • alpha-lemming

          Very true….. W sucked, McLame sucked on steoids. Both Progressives. Chairman ObaMao is the H-bomb of suck!!

          I’m dubious the Dems will EVER be able to reclaim their soul from the cancer that is Progressive/Marxism. That being said, in a perfect country (or as near as one can get to perfection), the Dems would be a foot-note in the history books, and the political battle would be between Libertarians and the GOP (social conservatives).

        • DaveH

          You know the answer, Bob.
          Vote for the only party that understands the concept of freedom, not just freedom as long as you do things their way.
          Vote for the only party that understands your natural right to control your own body and legally acquired property.
          Vote for the only party that believes men in government are no less bound by the laws of morality than are ordinary men.
          Vote for the only party that knows it isn’t the Government’s money to give.
          Vote for the only party that would role government back to its intended Constitutional size, and maybe even smaller.
          Vote Libertarian:
          http://libertarianparty.org/platform

          • Vicki

            Vote Librarian. Its the only way to be sure. Till they get corrupted.

          • Robert Smith

            Hi DaveH,

            There are some good points. Quite frankly I don’t think the extreme right is going to go along.

            1.3 Personal Relationships

            Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government’s treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption,immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships.

            1.4 Abortion
            Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

        • 45caliber

          I voted GOP for the same reason. What we need are candidates who don’t suck. Any ideas on how to get some?

        • Jeep

          Bob, let me get this straight…Warrior throws out none or ten funny yet accurate anectdotes, and you respond with a very childish, “…your republican candidate sucked!” But, when you don’t have truth and freedom on your side, I suppose that is the best you libs can do. Ho-hum…

      • JeffH

        Very good Warrior!

      • Bruce D.

        Warrior, Wow! I have seen a lot of good blogs on this site. This one rates right up there at the top.

      • dan az

        warrior your the man! that was right on and to the point!

      • blv54

        you voted democrate cause your a dumb *ss cowardly slave.

      • Anthony

        Does David Letterman know about this TOP TEN LIST …?

      • Winnie

        And the what are the reasons why republican voted for Bush TWICE.

        • libertytrain

          Gore and Kerry.

    • BrotherPatriot

      ^^ Wh@@t…say it like it is, brother! ^^

    • 45caliber

      s c:

      Is “trojan horse” what the gays want to call their thingee??

  • MikeC

    Sadly another strike against our civil rights. Forcing the gay community to second class citizenship in this day and age is beyond archaic. Let the decisions regarding compatibility work themselves out within the military. Congress and the public have no business here. The Bill of Rights dictate we must accept gays as what they are at every social level. So Constitution first except when we don’t like how the rule applies continues to be the mantra of our GOP minority.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      MikeC… The gay thing was added into the ‘Dream Act’. What is your issue? Neither passed! Maybe if Washington would stop lumping things together to get legislation passed, some stuff would and others wouldn’t on their own merit. I don’t think putting gay stuff in with illegal stuff is the right way to go about this. Maybe, just maybe Washington is starting to understand the will of the people! Gays have the same rights as anybody else. As a straight person what extras will I get if legislation is passed to favor the gays in some way?

      • Robert Smith

        Robin asks: >>>As a straight person what extras will I get if legislation is passed to favor the gays in some way?<<<

        What "extras" might gays get that you can't?

        Bringing folks to equality is not playing favorites.

        Rob

        • http://naver sook young

          Gays have the same rights we do, but they just have to marry someone of the opposite gender. The Defense of Marriage Act is the law of the land. One man and one woman, so get over it! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: >>> Defense of Marriage Act is the law of the land.<<<

            That will change, just as blacks became free to marry whites.

            Rob

          • Winnie

            Sook Young, “one man. one woman. What a bunch of crock especially coming from the “Christians” of the United States of America. Try, also, one man, two, three, four wives. One man married and divorced multible times. Same with women. “Til death do us part?” What a crock of pooh.

          • http://naver samurai

            My wife Sook Young and I have been married for 25 years, so are you talking from experience? Have you been married multiple times? I can see why with your attitude! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Robert Smith… I believe that gays have the same rights already, even more! If someone who is gay is murdered its considered a hate crime. I believe murder is murder. I don’t hate gays. I even know some. However God’s standard is my standard. Gays live in sin according to the Bible. Don’t debate this. You can’t debate God…

          • Robert Smith

            From Robin: >>>Gays live in sin according to the Bible. Don’t debate this.<<<

            Don't have to "debate" it. The United States Government is banned from establishing a state religion based on your bible or any other holy book.

            Even atheists can participate in the CIVIL contract of marrage.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            >>> If someone who is gay is murdered its considered a hate crime. <<<

            Yup, just as if they are murdered for religious reasons, elderly, or if they are a kid, or if it is a murder during a crime. All sorts of "special" circumstances are outlined in our laws.

            I agree that assault is assault. It isn't just applicable to gays. It should be simplified.

            Rob

        • DaveH

          Robert,
          The answer to that is that there should be no “special” protections that others don’t get.
          Rather than create new laws that give them those protections, the Government should simply rescind any laws that deny them equal rights. And otherwise, butt out. But, horrors, that would mean less government, less power for the leaders, and less money for the lawyers. We can’t have that!

          • 45caliber

            And it would also mean that the minorities wouldn’t be getting anything special the rest of us don’t get. That’s even worse!!

          • http://naver samurai

            You patriots are funny! Ha, ha, ha, ha! Keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From DaveH: >>>Rather than create new laws that give them those protections, the Government should simply rescind any laws that deny them equal rights.<<<

            Yup, that awful defense of marriage and don't ask don't tell.

            Rob

        • 45caliber

          Rob is it equal to punish straight people for sexual harassment and ignore the gays who do the same thing? That is exactly what it means in the military.

        • Bob

          Hey Robert From now on we’ll call you BackDoorBob.

      • Disgusted

        Robin, rightly said. This “lumping” of bills and additions of “pork” needs to stop. There is so much crap hidden in these bills that they don’t even know what they are voting on.
        We have a friend that is working in GA right now putting air conditioning into the prisons there – they are ripping off working heating units and throwing them in the trash to be replaced with heating/AC units. This was voted on and passed because it was hidden in another bill. How much is that costing us? Which brother, cousin or nephew got the bid job for that? We have better things to spend our money on.
        This back dealing needs to stop!

        • jim

          Let the prisoners stay in TENTS in the summer, like Joe’s criminals do and WORK!!! No doubt, the OBAMABOTS are behind this WASTE of tax payer’s money on CRIMINALS!!!! VOTE, RECALL and IMPEACH NOW!!!!!!!!

        • GregS

          Well said, Disgusted! Every piece of legislation needs to be discussed and voted on separately on its own merit, and NOT lumped together with other legislation. The libbies want to throw everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink into these bills, and then pass them, so we can all “see what’s in them.”

          • 45caliber

            Sad but true.

          • HFlashman

            I know..I know…and you’re view is the GOP never did that. Are you ignorant, lying, or just having an IQ that wouldn’t make a respectable earthquake?

          • 45caliber

            flash:

            I don’t want ANYONE to throw all the extras to any important bill. Put them in a bill of their own and let them stand or die on their own merits.

          • JeffH

            45caliber, that is a great, although not new, idea. But I have to ask, what ever would happen to bipartisan compromise?

          • 45caliber

            Politicians have a different idea of bipartisan politics than we the public do. We consider it a way of both sides working together to craft a bill that is something we really need. They consider it as “You vote for my stupid bill and I’ll vote for yours.”

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Hey no Flash,
            If you truly support no pork, then get your progs to support line item veto!!! Tell them NO MORE PORK!!!!

          • GregS

            - 45caliber, your comment regarding the difference in viewpoints (politicians vs we the public) of bipartisan compromise is spot-on. In this particular case, the libbies came up with a 2011 defense authorization bill, which BOTH parties agreed needed to get passed. But then, at the last minute, they had to tack on two VERY controversial items, which even some of the Democrats were against. This had NOTHING to do with bipartisan compromise. Had the defense bill ITSELF been controversial in the first place, it would have been a different matter, but it wasn’t. NO compromise was needed to get the main part of the bill passed.

            - HFlashman, where in my post did I say that “the GOP never did that?” Furthermore, even though they did lump bills together, what makes you think I approved of it??? We are talking about what is going on NOW, NOT about the PAST. Your remarks are just another example of how you libbies try to justify the actions of Obummer and his cronies by comparison to past actions of their opponents. You totally LACK the ability to justify those actions on their own merit!

      • Bruce D.

        I agree Robin. Every issue should stand on its own. It is just part of the corruption to put things together that are unrelated.

        • Robert Smith

          From Bruce D.: >>>Every issue should stand on its own. <<<

          Yup, that means LINE ITEM VETO for the President.

          I like that.

          Rob

    • JoMama

      MikeC -
      It’s NOT that people DON’T like gays in the military. It’s the fact that all this GAY SHIT keeps getting shoved down my throat!! I’m with MIA. WHO CARES??
      Even if there were gays in the military – they are not going to protect us from anything – per Obama. He won’t even protect us. He’s ALL for the votes & popularity (right now he has NONE). Hence – the DREAM act, the fact that there is STILL a mosque being built around the corner from ground zero, siding with all the illegal aliens, hating what America stands for, apologizing for America to his muslim buddies around the world, there are no jobs still & he’s so f*cken arrogant that he STILL thinks that people actually BELIEVE what he says. I DON’T!! He’s a liar. He’s a fake. He has NO credibility. He has to go.
      Well – this chickie right here KNOWS he’s intent on ruining America as we know it.
      He should just show his birth certificate & PROVE that he is fit to run this beautiful country – NOT an illegal alien like his Auntie.
      Really – who cares WHAT people screw on their time?? Just don’t MAKE ME LIKE IT.
      I WILL NOT CONFORM!!

      • 45caliber

        I agree with you.

      • HFlashman

        JoMama States she will not conform. yet such is what she is doing by joining the latest fad of the poorly educated, simplistic minded, robotic and easily manipulated masses controlled by the Right…lol

        • 45caliber

          No, actually she was already there on the right. The right just agreed with her.

          • s c

            45 caliber, ‘flush’ will never admit it, but as a rule, it’s extremely difficult to find a better example of a dumbed-down, uneducated, pre-programmed airhead than a typical ‘Dem,’ lib or a progressive.
            They RELY on uneducated illegals and the uninformed to line up and support ANYTHING that feels good or sounds good. They think Peter Pan and Mary Poppins are role models.
            Congress is infested with self-made retards who were socially ‘promoted’ to get a degree. The sick,
            twisted bastards can’t read, don’t want to read, and we’re expected to think they deserve to be in Washington. People like flush are stereotypical useful idiots.
            They should have lived in WWII Germany or Bolshevik Russia, where they could have lived up to their full potential, and America would have been spared their presence.

          • 45caliber

            s c:
            They might consider Peter Pan a role model but it is only because they saw Disney’s movie. Try reading the book! He was a homicidal maniac and killed dozens. In fact, he killed his own Lost Boys when they got too old! The book is NOT for kids.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            sc
            I hate to disagree, but those uneducated progs think that Peter Pan is something they put under you in the hospital!!! just like they think asphalt is rectrum trouble!!

        • JeffH

          HFlash again says, Polly want a cracker? bbbaaarrraaaccckkk!

          • coal miner

            Yes JeffH,

            You can have a cracker!

          • http://naver samurai

            Coal Minor, you can have a cow chip or a road apple!

      • Bruce D.

        JoMama,
        You are right about no on caring if you are in MIA. I don’t even know what it stands for. I thought it was ‘missing in action’ but obviously you are still here.
        As a whole I agree with your blog.

    • alpha-lemming

      Gays should be able to serve. But honestly, how many interior decorators, hair-stylists, and Broadway thespians does the military REALLY need???

      • 45caliber

        I agree.

        In fact, from what I’ve seen, the military expects up to 25% of the men they desperately need right now to quit so they can allow a few handfuls of gays in with the right to proposition those that are left.

        • HFlashman

          Question…how can you see when you’re blind?

          • 45caliber

            As an ex-service man, I believe I see a lot more clearly than you do. But if I’m not, educate me.

          • HFlashman

            45 … then by the logic you state…those 25% who leave the military, they won’t work in the private sector if the private company has gays in its workforce?

            So what poll or source did you garner “what you see” from? I do not believe for a second those that enlist do so because they know it’s a non gay environment. And i don’t believe for a second that they would exit the military, their careers, etc because what is known and hidden is now open.

            You appear to have a lower opinion than I of the caliber of soldier, sailor, aviator and marine we have in our armed forces.

            Too bad. You say on one hand you support them…yet on the other you diss them.

          • 45caliber

            flash:
            When they get out, they will work where they can. Are they worried about gays there? No. The moment a gay person tries to put the rush on them, he’s fired. Just what the army does now.

            But … if we lose 25% of the people in the military because they won’t serve with gays putting the rush on them, where are you going to get replacements for them? Not from the liberals. Not from the gays. The gays who want to serve the country are already in. The only gays you will get in addition will be those who consider the military a sex club.

            Actually, If I was gay I’d keep my mouth shut. Too many ways to get killed there. But further, I wouldn’t serve with one. I did once. A sergeant and a private. The private got somewhere apart from the sergeant and the sergeant became frantic when they got into a fire fight, worried about his lover. He put a dozen men’s lives into harms way to try to make sure his lover wasn’t hurt. THAT IS WHY THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH SEX IN THE MILITARY.

          • 45caliber

            flash?
            You don’t believe any soldiers would quit? Not even after the military took a survey recently – and 25% said they would? I wasn’t guessing on that figure. It has already been established.

            Soldiers trust each other and fight for each other. If someone is constantly breathing down your neck you can’t stand them and won’t fight to defend them. That’s called bad morale. And as a non-soldier, you can’t understand it. Sorry.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            45caliber,
            I do believe that is what brings on fragging!!! That and anything else that gets good men killed! Another thing to look at is in the middle east if a platoon gets captured and even one or two people are gay the muslims are gonna behead them all!! A normal platoon might be kept as bargaining tools!! If they want to serve, let them serve in a platoon all by their lonesome!!! don’t mix them with non-gays!!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            hey flushman,
            In the civillian life, they wouldn’t have to sleep in close procimity to them. They wouldn’t have to shower in the same shower room with them. Do you realize what would happen if the troops knew that a flight surgeon was gay and gave you the digital exam??? I’m not trying to joke here either!! Like I said earlier, if they truly want to serve, let them serve in a unit of their own!!!

          • dan az

            hey flash
            If they want to serve then lit them serve in there own company they could be called the pink panthers!
            OK Im a bigit!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            dan az,
            or instead of the Green Berets they could call them the pink too-toos!!

        • Robert Smith

          45 says: >>>In fact, from what I’ve seen, the military expects up to 25% of the men they desperately need right now to quit <<<

          If they want to be sure they don't get involved with gays in their ranks they should become men of tha there christian god. It's against that god's rules so they should be safe from gays in the ranks of priests.

          Rob

          • libertytrain

            oftentimes what you write is just plain not readable – I see no sense to what you said, with or without the spelling errors?

    • 45caliber

      MikeC:

      You said: “Forcing the gay community to second class citizenship in this day and age is beyond archaic.”

      As far as I know, the gay community hasn’t been first class citizens until ‘this day and age’. In fact, most gays throughout history were treated the same way they are today in Iran. When the president of Iran stated that there were no gays in his country, he meant it! Every time they identify one, they kill him!

    • jack

      EVIDENTLY YOU ARE A DOODOO PACKER!WHEN I WAS IN THE SERVICE WE USE TO BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF YOU!
      IF YOU WERE IN COMBAT WITH ME AND ALSO A GIRL I WOULD HAVE WENT AWOL!

    • Vicki

      MikeC says:
      “So Constitution first except when we don’t like how the rule applies continues to be the mantra of our GOP minority.”

      So MikeC what is the democrat (or yours if same) position on my owning and carrying arms of my choice?

      Or maybe we should ask about your opinion of the “disclose act”.

  • Steve

    How dare Reid and the Slimey Democraps try to attach Amnesty for Illegals to a Defense Bill, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other, Come November we will show the Democrap Liberal Marxists Leftists Progressives a real Dream Act !!!!

    • Bob Wire

      how dare them indeed ! seems that’s the way Capital Hill works by both parties. Compromise and offering deals that can’t be refused.

      It kinda sucks really.

      • DaveH

        Agreed, Bob. No mixed Bills ought to be allowed to come out of Congress. None should be more than ten pages long. And all should be read and understood by all the Congressmen and the interested public before they can be voted on.

        • 45caliber

          Sounds good to me.

        • Vicki

          Count me in. Here is a place to add your voice to the 10′s of thousands asking/demanding that very thing

          http://www.downsizedc.org/etp/campaigns/83 “One subject at a time”
          27 “Read the Bills”

          Just replace the 83 with 27 in the link to get to the 2nd campaign.
          There are more but that should get us started.

    • Robert Smith

      From Steve: >>>Amnesty for Illegals to a Defense Bill, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other<<<

      Letting a kid join our Army and get citizenship goes all the way back to Roman times. It is an EARNED citizenship, rather than just getting it for being born. Quite frankly I'd respect someone who had to earn citizenship more than someone who is trying hard to deny equality to other Americans.

      Rob

      • http://naver sook young

        If they are here legally, fine. Illegals can leave immediately and not come back. We’re a nation of laws and do not reward lawbreakers.
        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • eddie47d

          Sook; We reward lawbreakers all the time. Look at all the corporate crooks who get away with their bilking America. Some of them hire illegals too.

          • Vicki

            please do enlighten us on who these crooks are and what laws you claim they broke.

          • http://naver samurai

            How about some of the crooks we have in office now?

          • eddie47d

            Vickie; Most corporate farms and meat farms such as the Purdue chicken conglomerate.

        • Christin

          samuari, is that you?

          • dan az

            christin
            If it isnt then it must be twin!

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry Christin. The lady posting is my wife and she just poated what we were talking about at the meal table. Sometimes she doesn’t know what to say, so she posts what we talk about. Sorry for the confusion. I’ll try to get her to post her own thoughts. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            samurai,
            I think she does a pretty good job all by her lonesome. Go get Em’ Sook young!!! Welcome to the round table lady!!! God Bless ya!! Tell samurai he’s got a goodun’!!!

          • Christin

            Samuari,

            I asked if “sook young” was you as the poster also wrote “FOR GOD AND COUNTRY” and I know that to be YOUR slogan. I like that ending statement… it is so you. However, I was confused when someone else by a different name used it, too. Now you have cleared up the mystery. Glad to have your wife on board.

      • JeffH

        From Robert Smith…Polly want a cracker? bbbaaarrraaaccckkk!

      • 45caliber

        Rob:

        Correct me here if I’m wrong but I’m under the impression that the Dream thing is for illegals only. Am I wrong? And not only is it ONLY for illegals, it actually deprives Americans from the same benefits. Wrong again?

        • Robert Smith

          From 45: >>>it actually deprives Americans from the same benefits. <<<

          Really? How so? Be specific. Please quote from the bill.

          Rob

      • Earl

        Is doing a hitch of 2 yeas in the military going to suddenly make a young Mexican or other into a solid, pro-American patriotic US citizen? The obvious answer is no. they will still advocate for their own race, culture and separate ways just like now. a few might actually become real Americans, but I don’t see much more than that. I also think (1.) there is a security risk. (2.) their lifestyle is so different than ours not many will actually want it. (3.) It is still a way to get more democrat voters in the ranks. (4.) This country CANNOT absorb millions more immigrants. Our own I.E., Ellis island type immigrants are not even having enough children to replace their levels of population. We have 2.1 kids, a reasonable amount, but Mexicans including illegals have on average 5-8. In 50 years, this land will be over-run with their descendants, with the same attitude of we want free health care, welfare, housing,etc. like it is now. The whole country will become like Mexico, one big barrio………and an un-educated one at that. Mexican high school dropout rates are abysmally high-more than half.

        If Immigration were stopped and all illegals deported, there would be little unemployment, as not EVERYONE is a “won’t do that work” type, contrary to what the pundits say……

    • HFlashman

      How dare they ! uh huh …. the Dream Act was first porposed and introduced as a miliatry defense funding attachment three or four years ago by Orrin Hatch and another conservative GOP Senator. It was stripped in a compromise where the Dems gave in for Iraqi War funding and having the war voted on as a seperate non-binding resolution.

      Yawn … I know…how dare the Dems believe the GOP has this country’s best interests at heart and would actually this time vote for something they had proposed several years before. The GOP has opposed everything put forth…on every piece. Even those they had proposed several years ago.

      This is just another in the long line of GOP “no” votes for anything…including several items they had told the nation before it would have been good to have.

      Frippin’ hypocrites. What a scam the GOP is pulling on you. And you fell for it.

      Too funny …

      • Bob Wire

        It took Reagan saying “We American’s” for me to finally realize that I must not not be included by the GOP. And the worst thing about that is, I campaigned and voted for Reagan thinking that I was.

      • JoMama

        3 or 4 years ago there was NO Obama in the White House. Obama does NOT do things the way they should be done here in America. Obama does HIS OWN THING – the way HE WANTS IT.
        I think GOPs vote against the Dems because ALL of those things that the Dems want are NOT what the GOPs want.
        I have to admit that if this was a president from BEFORE the Obama administration – he would have NOT gotten away with the crap that this one does.
        Take ObamaCare for example:
        NOBODY wants it – BUT he made sure that’s what they got – because HE WANTS it. AND NOBODY DARE SAY NO TO HIM.
        This is NOT a “free country” anymore. It never will be as long as the Dems have control.
        I am not looking forward to Sharia Law either. Yes. This is what it’s coming to, kids.

        • HFlashman

          1. You err in that health care reform is what Americans want. What they truly want is a Public Option to force the insurance oligarchy to set pricing and costs at market levels, not levels calculated to squeeze every available dime from the People. For thjose who say the Public option will “nationalize’ the industry…. thik about that for a second. Everyone syas government is inefficient and can’t do anything at lower cost tha private industry. Yet…somehow the lie is that if Government has a Public Option (Option mind you)…it will drive the insurance industry out of business because it won’t be able to compete. Think about that when you pay that tab for your rising insurance bill this month … and thank the GOP for that xtra money you’re paying.

          2. Your reference to Sharia Law…I take it you’re either a complete robot willing to believe anything your Masters tell you, or you are equating strict christian dogma (the perdominant sect no one will say when they spout their garbage about ‘christian values…as if someone has to be a “chrisitan’ to have those vlues…what egotists…jeesh.)

          • 45caliber

            If I actually thought that a public option would lower insurance rates, I might agree with you. But the REAL problem with increased insurance rates is that the government is mandating that they add more required stuff to the insurance I have to pay for.

            To be really fair, let’s allow the insurance companies to split up their policies into parts that allow us, as insurance buyers, to pick and choose. For instance, I have no interest in a sex change operation, so why should I have to pay for it in my insurance plan? Picking and choosing would allow me to model my insurance for my family and would result in a lot lower rates. But that has been refused by the government in favor of ‘public opion’.

            And yes, public option WILL drive the insurance companies out of business. They have to make a profit at it to stay in business. The government doesn’t even have to break even.

          • DaveH

            More Liberal Misinformation from the Flash. Here’s the truth:
            http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law
            You would have to be an ignorant Liberal to believe that allowing the Government, with its deep pockets, to compete in the marketplace wouldn’t drive any other competitor out of business. Government can’t fail. If their prices are too low to make a profit, the Government just takes more of our money away and keeps on trucking. A private business can’t do that.

          • Bob Wire

            Well, perhaps you need to pay more! I was tired of subsidizing your insurance while being denied coverage myself.

          • alpha-lemming

            Already been stated via 45 and Dave ala the profit formula which WILL bankrupt insurance companies and leave government the last man standing. You want to know why insurance is so high?? Because it’s NOT INSURANCE ANYMORE (thank you Teddy “splash” Kennedy), in the classic sense of insurance to be used only for catastrophic situations. Five to ten times the cost on premiums for routine visits, physicals, and the unproven savings in “preventative medicine/HMOs” etc?? Auto insurance would be $10-20K/yr if they bought your tires, did all your oil changes, paid for customizations etc.. I could be convinced of a drug benefit because advances made really do keep people functioning/mobile that previously would have required hospiatization. But other than that, pay for your own doctor visits, minor out-patient stuff can be paid in installments etc.. That would SLASH (I was paying ~$100/wk for a family plan… recently readjusted to just me for major savings) what people are paying faster than anything.

          • DaveH

            Government has quite a scam going. First they distort the marketplace of Healthcare and Healthcare Insurance with regulations. Then when the costs rise as a result of the distortions, they offer to cure those costs with even more regulation. And a large portion of the ignorant population buys into the scam.
            http://mises.org/mobile/daily.aspx?Id=2946

          • DaveH

            Alpha,
            Here is an article to back up what you are saying:
            http://www.cato.org/research/articles/reynolds-021003.html

          • HFlashman

            ??? Government setting pricing so low as to drive private insurance companies out of business? Last i had read, the public option which was proposed was set to break even…not incur losses. And if government pricing was set too low…the exodus of the entire medical community would occur…and not be a popular polical stance to take when that occurs. They’d fix it or their replacement would.

            Or is the GOP lying when they say they want to end the deficits/ Oh wait…they want to extend those tax credits for the wealthy…increasing our dficit by %600 billion. I forgot…they will incur more deficit spending…if it screwed Americans. On the other thand, they’ll cut programs…if it screwed Americans. Hmmm…the commonality there is…the GOP sets its stance on whetehr it can screw the average American.

          • 45caliber

            flash:
            One of the things I’m afraid of is that the entire medical profession WILL walk out. I’ve heard that 45% of the doctors have decided that when it goes into affect, they retire. Where do we get the new doctors? And how do you understand what they are saying when you do get them? And how do you get treatment until we do get these new doctors?

          • DaveH

            As usual, Flash, you’re mixing apples and oranges. The prices that I was referring to were the prices of their Health Insurance. You are obviously talking about prices for medical treatment.

          • DaveH

            Frankly, 45, I wouldn’t care if they did walk out. I plan on letting nature take its course. The Liberals and Big Government have created such a complex tumultous society with everybody minding everybody else’s business that I will be okay with checking out. It will be peace at last.

          • Robert Smith

            From 45: >>>I have no interest in a sex change operation, so why should I have to pay for it in my insurance plan?<<<

            Really!

            First: I'm not aware of insurance that pays for a sex change. None, zip, zero, zilch.

            I'll bet that you don't want to pay for breast cancer because that usually affects women (rarely it does hit men though).

            I guess that you don't think women should have to pay for prostrate issues? How's about you not paying for birth control of they don't pay for viagra?

            Let's see, 45; Your idea starts at dumb and goes down hill from there based on a WRONG assumption to begin with and then the really dumb assuption that human health issues can be divided like parts for a car.

            Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          flushman,
          To be an option, one has to be able to choose!!! If you go onto the public option and find you don’t like it, too bad, no choice!! Once on, on for life!!! New people are on the public option from the start! No choice again. get laid off and HAVE to go on the public option no choice, STAY on!!! Now you tell me how the insurance companies are gonna stay in business without NEW CUSTOMERS???? Thus there is no OPTION!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Joe H. says: >>>To be an option, one has to be able to choose!!!<<<

            I have little choice with my insurance now. If a doctor I need or want is out of plan It's out of my pocket.

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            roberto sanchez smythe,
            My insurance lets me go to any Dr. I want! I don’t have to have a referral to see a specialist, either! I pay five dollars for prescriptions and fifteen for each Dr.s visit. My Dr. doesn’t turn me away either. Why would I want a government covered plan for that?? I went in the hospital for 100,000 dollars for surgery and it cost us 1000.00 now why would I want any mandated plan from the government?? You want it? Fine take it but don’t make me get anything different!! I gladly pay my hospital bills as I get GOOD care and and my bills are reasonable!!! One other thing, bud, my Dr. doesn’t always make me come in to call in a prescrip. for me. She doesn’t try to convince me to take the dam flu shot either. I can’t take them and I’m not allergic to eggs so no one can tell why I end up in the hospital each and every time I get one!!

      • 45caliber

        It doesn’t matter if the GOP approves it or the Dims approve it. It was wrong then and it is still wrong.

      • eddie47d

        So true

        • eddie47d

          Wasn’t agreeing with You Caliber so don’t get your hopes up.

          • DaveH

            I suspect, Eddie, that 45caliber (like myself) would find it more disturbing if you did agree.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            I was thinking the same thing!!!!

          • eddie47d

            You have to be able to think first Joe!

      • John

        No the scam’s on you, you blind idiot.

    • HFlashman

      About as much daring as Orrin Hatch when he did the identical tactic a few years ago…only to have it traded away at the last second to garner votes for anothr piece of legislation. LOL

  • Bob Wire

    Well ? if these people came to the US as children and have grown up here in the USA, where should we like to put them? Should they be deported? And if so, where?

    While I’d like to see a hard stance on restricting immigration today, this is a situation of a different color.

    Much like possession being 9/10th law or allowing a neighbor to access his property via though your property for years and then choosing one day to deny him his only access. ~ The law states that you can’t deny him access.

    These people have been “allowed” access long enough to build lives. I would think provisions for citizenship a noble and Christan thing to consider by leadership.

    • http://personallibertydigest Bo Jangles

      I agree, this is a difficult problem and must be addressed. However, before any bill is passed there should be some serious discussion about all the issues and the bill should really be a solution and not a band aid. Then it should be voted on ALONE and not tagged on to something like funding our military!

    • Bob

      If the illegals are given amnesty then they will be allowed to bring their whole family here. We have enough illiterates in this country.

    • 45caliber

      One of the problems I have with this Dream thing is that the illegals would get “free” money to go to college … buy my own kids who ARE legal Americans can’t. Send them back where they came from and let them go to school there.

      • HFlashman

        Really? Can you cite the section that is in? Didn’t think so…about as much credence as the Death Mandate the lies were spread in the Health Care legislation. You were told it was there…but it’s not. Yet you want to believe the lies because it gives you reason to legitimize your hate and ignorance and unwillingness to work for the betterment of this nation

        • 45caliber

          Really? Take a look at Pell Grants. The government has stated that any illegals would be qualified for these – but right now it is almost impossible for an American to get one of them – unless you are in prison, of course.

          • HFlashman

            LOL … so you’re saying if your are here in the country illegally, you’ll automatically receive a Pell Grant?

            And the fact you don’t have a valid SS# means …. INS notification. Criminey…never thought that nonsense through did ya before spouting it

          • 45caliber

            But the Dream Act would by-pass all of that wouldn’t it? Or did you read it? It would accept any person who had been in the US for several years in school as a valid college student – even if they did come here illegally. And if they haven’t gotten a legal SS#, they will give them one. And, because they are suffering by being illegal, they get the Pell Grants.

        • Bob

          Flashman Where can we go to read the Bill like you have? You probably get your info from Olbermann.

        • lucylu

          NEWS flash,they don’t call them death panels,it’s regulatory panels,read the bill.

          • Anthony

            How does that change what they ARE…?

    • DaveH

      It depends upon their age, Bob. If underage, then they should be deported with their parents back to the country from which they came when they illegally entered our country.

  • http://mail.com MIA

    Thank GOD these people are finally waking up to who OMAMA is and for taking a stand. I hope they continue to do so. I am not the one bending over and I am tired of feeling as if I am. As for gays/lesbians in the military…. so what. I am a veteran and I am sure there were gays and lesbians around me when I was active duty. As long as they don’t come onto me, I don’t care about their sexual preferances, and neither should anyone else. They are the ones protecting us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Disgusted

      You said there were probably Gay’s serving with you and you didn’t know it. Why? Because they were in the closet. If they had been “openly gay” positively you would have known exactly who was gay as they could be completely open about it. I think it would be crushing for morale. Can you imagine being on a naval ship where your fellow mates were allowed to kiss, fondle and other things right in front of you? I think it is disgusting, it is not natural and I think in the military setting it should be “don’t ask, don’t tell”!

      • libertytrain

        Disgusted – while I’m not “for” allowing the openness – I don’t think you realize that heterosexuals would not be kissing in front of you – or at least shouldn’t/wouldn’t be while on duty, etc. I’m fairly certain that that behavior is not tolerated.

        • 45caliber

          Particularly in the military! You’re on duty 24/7 there. The ONLY time you get for yourself is when you are on pass or on leave. And what you do then is well away from the military. I’ve only seen one gay couple get in trouble in the military but I’ve seen several straight couples get in trouble for sex on duty.

          • libertytrain

            Exactly – my Army daughter would not be kissing her Army husband – at least not in uniform while working – There is a professionalism to the Military as it would be in any “real” business – I don’t expect to walk into a department store and find two clerks kissing away at their counter -

          • 45caliber

            liberty:

            And if I did see two clerks kissing each other behind their counter, I’d be looking for the manager.

          • libertytrain

            45caliber – ditto

      • 45caliber

        Tell me, Disgusted, does being “openly gay” mean having sex in public? That seems to be the definition I’m getting. It is wrong for anyone to do that and generally illegal as well.

        I certainly don’t go around telling everyone, “I’m straight!” Why should gay people go around telling everyone they are gay?

        • JeffH

          Very good point 45.

    • http://naver sook young

      MIA, that’s right, you’re missing in action. Your brain that is. I served for 20 years and always had ways of figuring out who is gay and who isn’t. Whether it was the MP’s digging through the trash or setting someone up, we wanted to get rid of them. Not just because it’s wrong, lowers morale, etc., but because they tend to contract infectious diseases like AIDS. If you’re on the front lines and a soldier needs an immediate blood transfusion, you can’t ask a gay preson for help. They may or may not have AIDS. If they do, you may have saved that soldier then, but what about the future? They’re not the ones defending us, it’s the ones who have pride in this country that sign up who are defending us. I even helped get some of them out. You know that if you have a soldier that is gay, you have to put a 24 guard on that person till the day they are discharged? This shows how low morale can get with then being in the service. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • HFlashman

        Ummmm….just to let you know. The fact is the vast majority of people who have AIDS are hetero’s. Ah well…pesky facts eh/ Always ruin a good rant of hate.

        • 45caliber

          Only in Africa. Not in the US.

          • JeffH

            45caliber, just for those that like to say “prove it”, here are the CDC estimate from July. 2010 for the US.

            Risk by group
            Gay, Bisexual, and Other Men Who Have Sex with Men (MSM): By risk group, gay, bisexual, and other MSM of all races remain the population most severely affected by HIV.
            MSM account for more than half (53%) of all new HIV infections in the U.S. each year, as well as nearly half (48%) of people living with HIV.
            While CDC estimates that MSM account for just 4% of the US male population aged 13 and older, the rate of new HIV diagnoses among MSM in the US is more than 44 times that of other men and more than 40 times that of women.
            White MSM account for the largest number of annual new HIV infections of any group in the US, followed closely by black MSM.
            MSM is the only risk group in the U.S. in which new HIV infections have been increasing since the early 1990s.

            Heterosexuals and Injection Drug Users: Heterosexuals and injection drug users also continue to be affected by HIV.
            Individuals infected through heterosexual contact account for 31% of annual new HIV infections and 28% of people living with HIV.
            As a group, women account for 27% of annual new HIV infections and 25% of those living with HIV.
            Injection drug users represent 12% of annual new HIV infections and 19% of those living with HIV
            http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/us.htm

          • 45caliber

            JeffH:

            And all those who are gay are covering their ears and saying, “La, la, la, I can’t hear you!”

          • HFlashman

            Yo JeffH…nice stats. Now tell us what it states. It doesn’t say Gays account for the 53%…it says men who have sex with men account for that percentage. Here’s a hint…go to Craigs list and see how many gays are looking for M to M sex. Not as many as married and bi.

            Stats are misleading unless you read the fine print. Ooops…

          • JeffH

            Flash, yes gays account for 53% of HIV cases but the Gay population is 4% of the total population. Thus it is a far higher percentage of the gay population that is infected with HIV.

          • JeffH

            Man to man sex is gay period! Whether someone claims to be married or bi doesn’t change that fact does it?

          • Bruce D.

            HFlashman says:
            September 23, 2010 at 5:58 pm
            Yo JeffH…nice stats. Now tell us what it states. It doesn’t say Gays account for the 53%…it says men who have sex with men account for that percentage. Here’s a hint…go to Craigs list and see how many gays are looking for M to M sex. Not as many as married and bi.

            Stats are misleading unless you read the fine print. Ooops…

            HFlashman I had to laugh at this one. I have to hand it to you. You may very well be one of the best ‘spin doctors’ in the world!!!

        • http://naver samurai

          Ah, I see we’ve been looking in the mirror again with this last statement.

        • Bob

          Flashman Did you really think closets were invented to hang clothes?

    • DaveH

      I’m with you on that one, MIA.

  • john

    They’re not waking up..they’re trying to ease the anger of the people.They want your vote…once they get it ,it’ll be back to business of sticking it to you again.For those who think the gay agenda is about civil rights..you bought the lie.Sexual preference has nothing to do with anything..it should’nt be a public thing,They choose to announce to the world the perversion and then expect the majority of us to either care or accept it..I neither care nor accept it.I don’t believe in gay marriage which is an affront to the natural family structure…have civil unions..but don’t call it marriage and don’t try to impose your sexual deviance on my children.The schools and businesses have already fallen victim to this propaganda forced upon them in the name of “diversity or inclusion” because immoral godless politicians take money for votes from these special interest groups and then pass the smutty immoral laws upon us.Call me a hate monger,call me bias,I don’t care..just because the govt. decides it’s right does’nt mean it is.You want to see what you promote..go to a gay pride parade.You want to see where this country is at currently..read Romans 1:16-32.Don’t believe the lie of homosexuality.It is not and never shall be normal.If they allowed open practice of homosexuality in the military just think of the damage it would do..to moral,discipline,to the blood supply needed during battle.Thank God that some sort of saneness reared it’s head at the right time on this issue.Now sit back and watch how nasty the gay world will become because they did’nt get their way.

    • Robert Smith

      >>>to the blood supply needed during battle.<<<

      Hey John, here is a FREE clue: Heterosexuals can get HIV and all the other STDs just as easily as gays.

      BTW, in America marriage is a civil thing. Even atheists can get married by a local JP or judge.

      If you are cnoncerned about the religious aspects of the civil contract of marriage then why not make it the civil contract that it is for EVERYONE, then you can go to your local religious organization for your god's blessing.

      After all, the Americana government will not establish any religion, thus by law it is not allowed to sanctify any contract for any god or goddess.

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        Sorry rob, but marriage was made by Almighty God to bring a man and a woman together in HOLY matrimony. Read it in your Bible sometime.

        • HFlashman

          You should read yours..then read mine. Bet we read the same Bible but interpret it differently. so whose interpretation is the correct one? I say mine is…you say yours is. I’ll send you the change, you can call your god and ask him to conference with mine so they decide which one is dominant. Either that, or you can keep it to yourself, not try to foist your misguided beliefs upon others and let others decide their own interpretation. Deal?

          • 45caliber

            flash:
            Only if you do the same thing. And so far I’ve not seen you do it.

          • HFlashman

            Hmmmm… have you ever read anything which i tried to foist my own spirtiual belief system upon anyone? Didn’t think so…because it’s my own private belief system.

          • 45caliber

            flash:

            If you were only talking about some religion, I might agree with you. What you are trying to say here is an attack on my religion. So … if you don’t push something to attack my religion I’ll do my best not to do the same for you.

          • DaveH

            You’re right, Flash, I haven’t seen you pushing your spiritual beliefs on others. But you do champion a political party which does just that. And that party that you champion does try to force many other things on an unwilling citizenry. I’ll grant you that the Republicans do their fair share of that, but two wrongs don’t make a right.

        • eddie47d

          Samurai: Stay strong in your faith . I do as a Christian but often challenge the Bible. It says Adam and Eve were the first man and women and Cain and Abel their sons. Cain killed Abel so where did the rest of mankind come from? Maybe Adam and Eve had more children but that would still mean that someone had to be incestuous in order for the world to have more people. (brother marrying sister) Life certainly wasn’t perfect in the beginning and it not in our present world. I don’t think the Bible says anyone should have an orchestrated attack against gays or anyone. Live and let live the best we can.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Roberto Smythe,
          and what once was the biggest cause of aids infection in heteros??? Blood transfusions!! The aids virus still manages to be missed in the blood supply just not very often. Under battlefield conditions where a medivac cannot be brought in a man to man transfusion may be required to keep a man alive!! That blood is not screened. what good is done if you save a man or womans life if you hand them a death sentence with aids???

        • Robert Smith

          From samurai: >>>Read it in your Bible sometime.<<<

          Nope, I don't want your bible running my government any more than I want the koran running our government.

          Fortunately our founding fathers understood that when they said that the American government wouldn't establish a religion.

          IOW, your bible doesn't count in American government, and it will stay that way.

          Rob

      • 45caliber

        Rob:
        Are you sure? From what I’ve seen and heard upwards of 90% or more of those infected with HIV are gays here in the US. That sort of means to me that it isn’t as easy.

        • Bob

          Heteros were infected by Bi-sexuals getting from men and spreading to women.

          • Robert Smith

            >>>Heteros were infected by Bi-sexuals getting from men and spreading to women.<<<

            And the most difficult party of Rock Hudsen's HIV infection was convincing his parents that he was Hatian.

            BTW, in Africa most of the spread of HIV is heterosexual.

            Rob

      • 45caliber

        Rob:

        In America marriage is both religious and civil.

        If you as a gay want a civil ceremony go to California or some similar state and knock yourself out. I could care less. That’s between you and the government. If you want a religious marriage, as far as I’m concerned, no way in h*ll. That requires trying to change the religion and you have no right to try to do that. After all, GOD made the rules, not man.

        • DaveH

          And that’s the problem with the special gay-marriage laws, 45. You could bet your bottom that they would be used as yet another club with which to beat religions. The lawyers would get fatter and happier, and the targeted religious organizations would feel as if they have been legally mugged.
          For the life of me, I can’t figure out why they would want to entangle themselves in an unnecessary legal contract anyway. What is the point? If it is family benefits, then that is the disease that they need to address. Nobody would need to concern themselves with such if Government would just butt out so that companies could pay their employees cash instead of the benefits. As it is now, the companies/employees get tax breaks for the benefits which they wouldn’t get if they offered cash instead.
          So, if the Gays want to level the playing field they should direct their energy towards abolishing the Government’s involvement with Company compensation plans. Socialism is causing their predictament. More of it will only cause more problems.

          • eddie47d

            As an example; Gays and Jews have been persecuted since the beginning of time. Blacks and women have been paid less for doing the same work. Governments ,individuals and private companies have been discriminating for centuries. Maybe government laws should stay out of people’s business especially if they are the oppressor. Yet when private companies discriminate that same mean ol’ government usually steps in and tries to arbitrate.(Most companies are smart enough now not to treats employees unfairly). Company compensation plans are benefits for all employees and shouldn’t exclude anyone. Whether government is involved or not.

          • 45caliber

            DaveH:
            I agree with you. And I believe that is really their aim – problems (and court suits) with religions. Several I’ve talked to are of the opinion that if they can get the religions to agknowledge and approve they can get everyone to do it. But they also believe that all religions are man-made and that God doesn’t exist. Therefore they can see no reason that the religions can’t change. I do.

        • Robert Smith

          Hey 45… >>>After all, GOD made the rules, not man.<<<

          Relly! I believe that Bishop Spong has a different point of view than you do.

          BTW, do you follow the entire bible? Check out:

          - the punishment for blasphemy is death by stoning [Lev 24:16],
          - likewise, a child who curses their parent will be put to death [Lev 20:9],
          - locusts, beetles and grasshoppers are permissible food [Lev. 11:21] but not shellfish or mollusks [Lev. 11:10].
          - Leviticus 25:44-46 was construed by slavery apologists to be divine authorization for the buying, holding and bequeathing of human beings as property.

          I had lobster last week n a sandwitch. It was very good.

          Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Roberto Sanchez Smyth,
            And when did you last see those followed by any Christian?? The stoning of a woman for adultery was followed last month by the muslims in iran!!! Looks like we have gotten a little more forgiving than your buddies, the muslims, haven’t we??? and from the start muhammad put little value to the tender age of a six year old, did he??? Jesus said suffer not the children for they are as pure as the driven snow!! Sounds like God placed a high value on the lives of the children!!

    • 45caliber

      john:

      I agree with you. The whole argument is that the gays want everyone to consider their lifestyle as “right” and perhaps even join in. And it isn’t. Further, they want special privileges the rest of us don’t get.

      • Robert Smith

        From 45: >>>The whole argument is that the gays want everyone to consider their lifestyle as “right” and perhaps even join in.<<<

        Bzzzz, WRONG again. Gays don't want their "lifestyle" to be an issue. They get up, go to work, come home, eat dinner, watch some TV, and go to bed. I'll bet it isn't much different from you, 45.

        It's the creeps who want to make an issue out of "others," in this case gays, who ply their bigotry with lies and hate charged with extreme claims.

        For example, I don't know of any gays who discuss what goes on in their bedroom. MOF, I don't know any heterosexuals who discuss their bedroom antics either.

        Why do you make stuff up about those "others"?

        Rob

  • Robert Smith

    From MIA: >>>As long as they don’t come onto me, <<<

    Would you react the same if a woman came on to you?

    The simple answer is to (ummmmm, where have I heard this before???) JUST SAY NO.

    Rob

    • 45caliber

      The problem is not “just say no”. It is saying no over and over and over and over while they continue to harass you. What they want is not be be openly gay but to be able to harass without anyone taking offense to it. Or, if you do, YOU get punished rather than them. The military has always had gay people. It is when they get pushy that they get kicked out. And rightfully so.

      The real thing here is that the gays want some SPECIAL protection no one else is to have. They want the protection to sexually harass others without any penalty.

      • eddie47d

        They don’t get kicked out because they are pushy. It’s because someone turns them in (squeals) because they don’t like gays. Some turn gays in to get that promotion that the gay guy was to get. That is why DADT is such a farce and should be repealed. Service and promotions should be based on ability not sexual orientation.

        • 45caliber

          You are probably right. But how do you stop that? The army is trying to keep the men’s attention on their jobs. The only experience I have with the military is in the field in combat. We weren’t worried about promotion; we just wanted to stay alive. The REB’s are another matter. I heard that when Iraq first started, they sent a ship over with a mixed crew. Of over 150 women on the ship, all but two were pregnant when they got there since pregnant women aren’t allowed in a combat zone. Everyone tries something.

          Personally, if I was gay, I would be VERY careful of letting everyone else in my unit know. Some idiot might want to take a shot at my back some dark night.

          As I said, a portion of the gays look upon the military as a wonderful sex club and simply want the military to protect them when they get pushy instead of doing their job.

          • eddie47d

            Caliber; 148 women got pregnant? That makes gays look like the responsible ones! It also made the heterosexual men look pushy and certainly not doing their job. Those 150 women lacked integrity also. Maybe the “immorals” aren’t the gays!!

          • Jeff

            fast eddie, there you go again making unfounded assumptions. Why don’t you tell us all how many of the 150 women 45caliber mentioned
            were heterosexual, gay or bi. Possibly you can also break down the gay/bi/straight count for us too?

      • Robert Smith

        From 45: >>>The problem is not “just say no”. It is saying no over and over and over and over while they continue to harass you. <<<

        Not me. My guess is that for some reason gays seem to be attracted to you, 45. Often homophobics are denying their own inclinations and taking it out on others. Maybe their gaydar knows more than you do about yourself.

        BTW, if you are bringing your kids up "right" why do you have any issues with what they might be exposed to somewhere else? What did Dick Chaney do that his kid came out gay. Are you (or he) gonna claim she caught it from a toilet seat?

        Rob

  • Bob Wire

    I don’t know about finally waking up. You’d have to be asleep first.

    and I agree, other people sexual preference is a personal issue ~ and I’ve no intentions of being “personal”

    I’ve learned to ignore many things in this world I have no interest in and can do little about, choosing to focus on what does interest me and what I have control of.

    I don’t like body art or someone that looks like they might have fall head first into my large fishing tackle box ~ but who am I? It doesn’t affect me.

    Some of history’s greatest warriors were gay men ~ It was a gay German warrior from Germany that Ben Franklin found in his travel to Europe and sent him to George Washington that honed and shaped the shape edge of America’s first Continental Army. ~ We’d never drove the Britt’s out without Baron Friedrich von Steuben and his contributions to our military in time of great need. ~ Look it up for yourself. Just Stuff we really don’t want to know. He was one bad ass fairy.

    • DaveH

      Some funny lines there, Bob.

  • RichR

    john…..I couldn’t have said it better !!!!!!!!!!!

  • Mark

    I urinate at the ILL and OHIO dems leaders who with their arrogance cry for a justice that serves only their personal goals. I wish to the good Lord above that them idiots would read this stuff. But it is to far below them. They are lower than dog manure, and under my feet to consider only themselves. These recent votes are showing clearly that many politicians are fearing for their elections to office. But do not let us be fooled one bit, vote them out, show them the People mean business.

  • Howard Roark

    This is a typical trick of the Democrats. they know that these ideas will not stand on their own so they tack them on the end of an important bill.

    If Dick Durban wants them to stand on an up or down vote, then let him have the courage to introduce them on their own.

    As far as what do we do with shildren that have been here illegally for years. you obey the rule of law and deport them and their criminal parents to their home country.

    As far as the so called anchor babies you also deport them and their criminal pqrents. But they are US Citizens you might say.

    The anchor babies are NOT US Citizens. this is yet another lie brought to you by the Progressives, who have over the years convinced we the people that the 14th amendment somehow gives citizenship to these babies.

    You see the U.S. Supreme Court ruled long ago the meaning of the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments. Here is the excerpt ot of their decision where they say who the 14th amendment does not apply to. “The Slaughterhouse Decision”

    The Court brgins by presenting a key paragraph from the 14th amendment which says,”All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the united states and the state wherein they reside.”

    The Court then goes on to state that the main purpose of the 14th amendment was to establish the citizenship of the negro and there is no doubt of this.

    The court then explaines that because the 14th amendment was intended to establish the citizenship of the negro, the phrase “Subject to its jurisdiction” WAS INTENDED TO EXCLUDE FROM ITS OPERATION children of ministers, children of consuls and CHILDREN OF CITIZENS OR SUBJECTS OF FOREIGN STATES BORN WITHIN THE UNITED STATES.”

    This decision has never been overturned. This decision for the first and only time explained the meanings of the three amendments (13th, 14th and 15th)that were intended to end slavery.

    I have called the Republican National Committee and suggested that when they take over the reigns that they immediately bring this decision to the forefront and nullify all of the phony citizenships that have been illegally granted to date.

    Liberals hjate this decision. for example they were terified that someone might bring the decision up during the recent Supreme Court ruling on the 2nd amendment as the Privileges and immunities clause does not apply to the citizens of the 50 States.

    • HFlashman

      Sigh..the DREAM Act was initally introduced as a rider to a military funding apropriations three years ago….by Orrin Hatch R-Utah.

      • 45caliber

        So what? It is still a bad idea.

      • DaveH

        Who cares, Flashman? Two wrongs don’t make a right. Besides, Hatch is a RINO.

        • eddie47d

          Orin Hatch was always considered a top rated Conservative. So look how you all turn on your own-what a feeding frenzy!

          • DaveH

            Eddie,
            Please get it straight. I know it is not your fault, but the right-wingers have coopted the term Conservative. They are not Conservative, they are Right-Wingers. The Libertarians are the True Conservatives. We believe that each person has the natural right (or god-given if you are religious) to control their own bodies and property. In other words, the kind of Freedom that our Founders envisioned. This means that Right-Wingers can’t legitimately punish us for crimes against our own bodies (vice crimes, i.e. victimless crimes) and Left-Wingers can’t legitimately take our money and property against our will.

        • HFlashman

          Just pointing out to Howard his statement about the Dems being the ones doing it isn’t correct. Hatch is a RINO? Wow…and he is furthr right than Reagan ever was. So now Reagan was a liberal ?

          Criminey …

          • Bruce D.

            I think that is your biggest problem HFlashman. Your viewpoints conform to your party. Our viewpoints are independent from the party. So we feel that if someone in the party does not support us we do not support them. Your values are more liquid and you can spin them in any direction you want them to go in. We are only loyal to the principle.

          • DaveH

            You obviously know nothing about Orrin Hatch, Flash. He jumps all over the map of politics. Yes, he is a RINO. And Reagan was a legitimate Freedom-Loving Conservative. He was as close to Libertarian as a Republican can get. Don’t confuse the balls and chains that were in his party in Congress with Reagan.

          • DaveH

            Here’s an example:
            http://gunowners.org/a0910.htm

          • DaveH

            From Wikipedia:
            “Although a conservative Republican, Hatch is noted for his willingness to cross party lines to get legislation passed. He notably formed a longstanding legislative partnership with the late Edward M. Kennedy, a liberal Democrat from Massachusetts”.

            As I explained in an earlier comment, Right-Wingers have coopted the term “Conservative”. Orrin is neither. I would find it hard to describe Orrin, except maybe as the “quintessential politician”.

    • BrotherPatriot

      I’m not gay, but Howard…I LOVE YOU! LoL…ty for the information and correct as usual.

      Just because a mexican woman runs across the border illegally and then plops out a child we are supposed to believe that child is an American citizen? .< I'm one pissed off, awakened, natural born American citizen/veteran!

      GOD Bless you all (even you liberal koolaid drinkers) & good morning! :D

      • Bob Wire

        I don’t know? Sounds pretty kinky to me!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          You aren’t known as Barb Wire for nothing!!1

    • Robert Smith

      From Howard Roark (not the architect I’ll bet), >>>This is a typical trick of the Democrats. they know that these ideas will not stand on their own so they tack them on the end of an important bill.<<<

      Really! Do you mean like Sara's bridge to nowhere? That's the poster child for pork.

      Rob

  • Dennis

    Dick Durban wants justice and courage on these issues? If he really wants justice and courage why not bring the bills up on their own rather than trying to sneak them in as attachments to a defense authorization bill. Quit using the military to pass social legilation the people of this country do not want.

    • Bob

      How many members of Congress are still in the closet and want a way out?

      • 45caliber

        Bob:

        Who cares? Why should I want to know their sexual preferences? Either way?

        • JeffH

          Good point.

        • Vicki

          True. I am much more interested in their ability and willingness to read the bills they vote on.

    • 45caliber

      Dennis:

      You are right.

    • Robert Smith

      From Dennis: >>> Quit using the military to pass social legilation the people of this country do not want.<<<

      Really… I thought we were supposed to have a military made up from the population of America.

      The military integrated with blacks, women are making strides, etc.

      What next? Do you want them to to back to fighting with sticks and rocks?

      Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        That has got to be the most stupid reply you have made yet, Roberto Sanchez Smythe!!!

  • jopa

    Well I see JeeH is still active in the KKK by his comment about walking in lock step with his shiny boots to the polls.Spoken like a true naxi.So sad we have people like that in America but I guess Nazis have a right to speak also.

    • JeffH

      Now I do seem to remember Nazi Pelosi walking arm in arm and in lockstep recentley during the HCR backroom deal.

    • DaveH

      Nazis? Hitler was a Nazi. He led the National Socialist German Workers Party (the Nationalsozialisten, or Nazis for short). Kind of sounds like the Democrat Party, doesn’t it?

  • jopa

    Ooops Should have been JeffH the nazi KKK guy.

    • JLC

      Jopa — Let me put it ths way! If I were in a combat situation (and I HAVE been) I would rather have JeffH covering my back than – say-
      flashman.

      • 45caliber

        If I need someone to guard my back, I’ll take a red-neck over a liberal any day.

        • libertytrain

          my second ditto to you today – so true 45 caliber -

    • JeffH

      jopa, of course you could only see it that way. That was the intention of the “lockstep” comment in the first place. Tell me how deep was the hook set before you realized the bait had a hook in it? Oh, you didn’t even know? My ,my, I’m not surprised at all!

    • JeffH

      jopa, just curious why you like to identify me with Nazi’s and the KKK? Can you explain yourself with any clear definitive examples?
      Like I said, I’m just curious to know.

      • DaveH

        He was looking in a mirror?

      • eddie47d

        Maybe it’s because of all the name calling you use on other commentors. What goes around comes around.

        • JeffH

          fast eddie, better you go back to your spot for the afternoon feed.

        • JeffH

          Oh, just an FYI, I couldn’t even begin to catch up with you and the other liberals on his website although I do take a special pleasure in exposing your idiosyncrasies and constant misinformation.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JeffH,
            Cut edduhh some slack! He didn’t have his quota of calling conservatives nazis!!! hows he gonna earn his two buck salary from soreass if he doesn’t make his quotas???

  • Joduan

    While the president and certain members of congress are trying to adopt 18 million illegal citizens, they are meking orphans out of 21 million or more Americans!

  • http://gmail i41

    These socialist dumbocraps just cann’t understand that this is USA. Work as a unit not dividing every person into to a classification. I don’t keep to lnow what somebady did behind closed dooors, if they got fisted, that is their sore rear, the rest of use don’t need a rainbow flag pinned on the rear. Same goes for a female’s cycle time, that is her issue. The queers want special recognition. Affermative action is another group of special perks for idoits and morons that will not study or really buckle down, but if you are a non white, are lined out on a prtvd proclivity you get a special classification. Same goes for the goat rangers, and their wanting and getting special passes to stick their stink rears in the air and get welcomed. Still say put the queers and muslims in only their joint units, the Queers and Steers Jumpers. If queers and muslims feel neglited, taste test a gun barrel and shut up.

  • Joduan

    What are all these millions of unemployed U.S. Citizens doing? Drawing welfare, social services, food stamps, state medical, some are drawing unemployment compensation…..

    • HFlashman

      I know…cut out the benefits for the unemployed eh? Drive them into desparation. Let’s all have walls with broken glass cemented on top like every other Third World country…which is where the Conservatives have been taking us since 1980. Third World status ..

      • S.C.Murf

        Jesus said that it is good to be conservative. Seems you know better than Him? You understand that you are making your choice for which side you choose to follow (good or evil) every time you open your mouth.

        • Bob Wire

          could you guide us on to this “inference”

      • DaveH

        Then help them out, Flashman. With your own money. Before Big Government came along we had a robust economy that provided plenty of jobs for anybody who wanted one. The impoverishment of our country at the hands of the elite leaders isn’t going to help the poor one little bit.
        All you have to do is look at this list of countries ranked by their economic freedom (less Government involvement) and you can clearly see what Big Government does for its citizens (or against them):
        http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking.aspx

        • HFlashman

          Actually..if you look at the data, our economic numbers started the decline around 1982…and has been, with the exception of the latter years of the Clinton Admin, going down at a steady pace. While average wages and buyng power has declined excepting the last three years of Clinton. And the wealthier are a larger % of income than ever before.

          Y’know, every once in awhile you may want to check the numbers before obeying the Masters…

          • Vicki

            HFlashman forgets or never learned that all the money printed by the Treasury during the Carter years would cause serious inflation.

            Supply/demand works on absolutely everything. Even what people use for money.

          • Bob Wire

            Yes supply and demand works and it makes one wonder why 43′s administration started addressing bank failures with bail-outs, which seemed to set a patten of “How the Fed reacted” to big business failures.

            The problem with supply and demand is when illusion of ether are artificially created and accepted as being factual.

            When setting out to buy apples and later finding out what you bought was 30% oranges and 5% of the apple were rotten. Your demand for apples was not met yet you spent the money. Hence the value of apples increased and the value of your money decreased.

            So supply and demand can be manipulated many ways to serve many purposes.

            To say supply and demand works is a true statement, but for whom should be a followup question.

            Marketing is a complex study one you start really diving into the hands on process of “selling”.

            This very forum, is a marketing tool as we explore issues and images are being created in the mind of value and “worth” A demand is being created.

            Regarding Carter’s administration and inflation ;

            “Carter cannot be blamed for the double-digit inflation that peaked on his watch, because inflation started growing in 1965 and snowballed for the next 15 years. To battle inflation, Carter appointed Paul Volcker as Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, who defeated it by putting the nation through an intentional recession. Once the threat of inflation abated in late 1982, Volcker cut interest rates and flooded the economy with money, fueling an expansion that lasted seven years.”

            The inflation was largely an effect created by the supply and demand ( or lack of) military matters and a standing down, as Nixon honored his promise to end the war.

            Argument

            In 1980, the “misery index” — unemployment plus inflation — crested 20 percent for the first time since World War II. Ronald Reagan blamed this on Jimmy Carter, and went on to win the White House. Reagan then caught the business cycle on an upswing, for what conservatives call “the Seven Fat Years” or “the longest economic expansion in peacetime history.”

            Were either of these presidents responsible for their fortune with the economy? No. Carter battled the peak of an inflationary trend that began in 1965. In the following chart, take special notice of the long, slow climb in the inflation column:

          • DaveH

            Flashman, you admonish me to look at the numbers? Get real. Our country started declining in a major sense when Woodrow Wilson took office and won’t quit declining until the people wake up and shrink Government back to its intended Constitutional size.
            How could anybody believe that a bunch of know-nothing elected politicians, who gave us the Social Security Ponzi Scheme and the US Post Office and many other failures (virtually everything they attempt), have a clue about what makes an economy tick?
            Certainly not you Liberals. If you did have a Clue you wouldn’t need to be so dependent on other peoples’ money.

  • Joduan

    I’d let a queer save my life anyday!

    • Bob Wire

      We already own the separation from the crown to a fairy along with the founding fathers , so why not?

  • 45caliber

    The people of the US have already decided that the Dream Act and the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” repeal are wrong. The fact that the Dimocrats have tried to sneak it into the military appropriation bill is a sign that they realize this but wanted to override the voters.

    “Where is the justice in this decision? At least have the courage to let us bring this matter to the floor, and stand up and vote ‘no’,” said Durbin, quoted by the news provider. “But to hide behind this procedural ruse — this unanimous consent request — is totally unfair.”

    It is totally unfair as Durbin says, to try to sneak it past the voters. If they weren’t trying to sneak it past both of these “amendments” would have come up on their own bills. As far as I’m concerned, the GOP did the right thing for once.

  • http://www.box.net/shared/bt5uxqm113 Arcadia CA once

    To say, “serve in the military or take our free education and you can become a citizen” is just another path for amnesty, pure and simple. That’s like saying you can either serve in the military, or drink a glass of water, either will do.

    Put the responsibility on the parents of these kids to take care of them in their country of origin.

    • 45caliber

      In many countries of the world, there are restrictions on education. Generally you have to pay for it. In America we pay via school taxes. As a result, the illegals love to come here with their kids. The kids get a free education and the parents don’t have to fork over any of their money to pay for it as they would at home.

      • Bob Wire

        that’s partly true 45 ~ but it’s goes much deeper with the basic “needs” every human might which to have.

        I have a little long black hair Mexican Senorita ~ that refuses to come to the US ~ She’s a Mexican and she’s proud. ~ Allows no English spoken in the casa. Her arrogance is insufferable at times as I see her in a house on fire and she fights me as I try to protect her from the flames.

        Try living on 40 dollars a week, even in Mexico. ~

        But it’s the current violence that’s most concerning. It’s pops ups any where at any time. ~ Mexico has serious problems and people are fleeing for safety.

        • 45caliber

          They have been in the last few years. Or some of them do. But I’m speaking about more than just Mexico too. They don’t come here solely for free education but it is the main reason they bring their kids here. Many families send their kids back to Mexico for the summer at Grandma’s place but bring them back when Mexican schools start – after Labor Day. Texas schools had worked up to starting in mid or even early August. The Mexican kids coming across after Labor Day would be so far behind that the teachers had to go back and cover the material already covered again to catch them up. Our state legislature ruled that our schools here can’t start now until a week or so before Labor Day to keep from having that problem.

        • Vicki

          Bob Wire says:
          “that’s partly true 45 ~ but it’s goes much deeper with the basic “needs” every human might which to have.”

          If they wish to have then it is not a need.
          Humans have a very overblown sense of “need”

          Humans “Need”
          0. Air
          1. water
          2. Food and no requirement for it to taste good.
          3. protection from extremes of the environment.

          Everything else is a desire or want.

          • Bob Wire

            you are playing semantics and attempting to split hairs Vicki.

            What you offer Vicki are essential for life and exceed any needs.

            45 is correct, as a parent ones “needs” goes beyond what you suggest.

            Not to be ignored, education and schooling is taken seriously in Mexico. Unlike America’s public school, young school children wear uniform clothing, it is very regimented and their day start very early.

            During the winter when the sun is so late in rising, I’ve had to watch close for them as I drive though dark and narrow border town streets on my way to work at the shipyards stateside. They don’t have lite street the way we do here in the US.

            In Mexico at 5:45 AM the whole city seem to sleep as the bars close at 4;00 and the only ones walking about is children. Fortunately the little girls wear a white top and plaid skit and it makes them easier to see in the dark. They walk in groups of two or more, for security I suppose. Little girls couldn’t do that in the US, someone would get them I fear. Put it this way, I wouldn’t want my little girls walking dark city streets by themselves at 5;45 AM.

            But it’s true a 45 stated, the quality of public education is advanced in the US, plus you must take in account the little Mexican children are learning in their 2nd language.

            Most parents feel a strong “need” to offer their children security and a brighter future. That’s just a natural parenting instinct and universal. America offers them much they don’t have and perhaps they should feel grateful, I think many do and then there’s those that don’t.

            Does anyone have any data regarding to “whom” or what nationality of people this proposed Dream act might serve most? I’d think many others nationalities besides Mexican’s would benefit.

            As for “Don’t ask and don’t tell” ~ Not being gay or having a gay family member ~ it’s an abstracted issue for me but I do think people need to educate themselves and realize this is nature playing dirty little tricks and it’s not contagious. All the animal kingdom is subject to this anomaly of nature, we have roosters that won’t rooster, Bulls that won’t mate and dogs that hump everything. Man is separated from the rest by his “free will”. But free will or not, It’s what’s found on our “inside” that determines who and what we are, and the strange truth is “You could be both” regardless of what’s showing outside ~ or it could show ! Nature can be very mean!

            I would offer, people cursed or blessed with this anomaly has some heavy baggage to carry in a heterosexual world. Attempt to understand the same “God” that made you, made them as well and they too are your brothers and sisters.

            The craziest part about it seems to be, the burden they carry isn’t heavy enough so the heterosexual world piles more on them as we wish to discourage it any way that we can. Yet we know this doesn’t work, we still try. Wonder why? Do you think if we didn’t everyone might become fairy’s?

            I don’t think so, I’m hard wired for women and I’m pretty certain most of you feel the same way with your sexual orientation. It’s not a debatable issue.

            Don’t ask don’t tell is not perfect by a long shot, but what is ?

            I’d just add a few words to it, Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell and don’t be Shocked and make a issue of it!

          • libertytrain

            Bob Wire – I think your 12:30 post was very well said. I agreed with most of it. With the exception of the children being taught in the 2nd language. Children can easily adjust to the language of the school they attend -

  • Mondovibe

    On a scale of 1 (a little) to 5 (a lot), how much do you think Congressional Republicans care about people like you?

    How many items in the GOP agenda are devoted to stopping outsourcing jobs/industry and off shore tax evasion?

    Do you agree with Tea Party Republicans who want to ‘phase out’ Social Security?

    What is the most important benefit of Wall Street Reform?

    Do you support the Republican plan to double the deficit by cutting taxes for millionaires?

    Do you believe in engaging in “We the People” profits & rights or supporting personhood profiteering rights of corporations?

    Should Social Security checks and Veterans benefits be held up so the GOP can shut down the government?

    Do you agree with GOP Rep. Pete Sessions that ‘we need to go back to the exact same agenda’ of President Bush?

    Glenn Beck is launching his own ‘University.’ Which of these courses do you think he should teach?

    Do you agree with Republican Leader Boehner that we should cut Social Security benefits and raise the retirement age to 70?

    Texas Republican Joe Barton apologized to BP. Do you think we owe an apology to BP?

    Which GOPContractWithAmerica.com priority is the worst?

    • 45caliber

      The GOP doesn’t care any more for the citizens than the Dimocrats do. What’s your point??

      • eddie47d

        Because most on this site vote Republican Mr Caliber.

        • 45caliber

          eddie:

          You can call me 45 if you want. I feel we know each other so well.

    • John

      Mono,

      Yeah, what is your point.

      Is that all you people have???

      You people do need free insurance more than we need it, for your mental issues that is.

    • Bob Wire

      “Glenn Beck is launching his own ‘University.’ Which of these courses do you think he should teach?”

      Hmm? well he drop out as a theology major at Princeton before he flunked out.

      Ranching? slinging mature? Snake Oil Distribution? Whore house Management and Operations? Operations 101; hand operations to cut down on the overhead.

      • Claire

        I have not heard about Glenn Beck starting his own university–is this really true? I will have to check it out.

      • lucylu

        IT;S NOT TRUE,IT’S A JOKE TO GET THE LEFT ALL WORKED UP.HE DOES FUND A NEW NEWS INTERNET PAPER,CALLED THE BLAZE.I’M not a big fan of his,but when I checked some of the facts stated,they seem to pan out.( so far).I DO APPLAUD him on his capitalism,and relentless to try to involve people into debate of topics never talked about,he was a shill for the right until around 2005,then he became more of a SORT of CONSERVATIVE,WITH MORE IDEALS as a libertarian.When first airing,he had with intention to be a bit more radical views against obama,without too much material on obama,in all fairness to BECK,not much real info was put out on this guys except a few half facts,and uncheckable sources on the subject.As time went on,and some of becks thoughts were looked at as crazy,or fear mongering,became true in a few circumstances.In other words OBAMA’s complete failures helped beck become more calm in his delivery,he knows he was correct on a few circumstances,and feels he has more pull with the american public,BUT watch them all,verify information through many different sources,and be diligent in fact finding,regardless of what so called party in came from.Both party’s have destroyed this country for over six decades,through the obvious two party paradigm.

        • Anthony

          Really suks when those conservative talking points go and PAN OUT… like they do…. doesn’t it?

          How about you post links to some Liberal Talking Points, so the rest of us can see if THOSE….pan out.

  • Griff

    This is a Personal Libery website but yet so many of you don’t see your hypocrisy in that it is OK to treat gays like second class citizens. I guess their personal liberty doesn’t matter.

    You should not use your religous beliefs as a basis for law. We are supposes to be a secular nation when it comes to what is legal.

    I totally agree with everyone that Immigration and Gay rights have NO business being on the same bill. Two totally different issues.

    The Libertarian model is awesome. “Fiscally Conservative, Socially Liberal” could work for the Republican party if so many members could keep their religion out of their politics.

    • 45caliber

      Gary:

      “Don’t ask; don’t tell” actually goes both ways in the service. It is designed for one purpose: to prevent people from sexually harassing others.

      The real problem here is that some gays enter the service thinking it is a sex club. They want to be able to proposition anyone they like without any problems. The military basically says to not do that or you are gone. They don’t think this is fair.

      There are gays already in the service who do a good job. The Gay Rights people complain about them hiding in a closet but in reality they are simply serving as soldiers should. So do the straight people. Like the minor group of gays there are straight soldiers who sexually harass others on duty. They are kicked out too.

      So … what makes a gay person a second class citizen because they can’t proposition others during duty hours?

    • 45caliber

      Sorry, I meant GRIFF, not GARY.

  • Donald

    I do not agree with the Dream Act. You do not reward a theif when they rob you so why reward someone for being in the US illegally.

    As far as the Don’t ask Don’t tell goes. The way they are does not stop them from being good service people or lower the love they have for this country. They keep it between themselves and let me be myself and we will be fine.

    • HFlashman

      Donald…why ot/ Every time there is a suggestion we nail the true crinimals, the employer of undocumented workers…everyone says that would be wrong because Americans won’t work.

      Thhink about that logic. On one hand, we have people spouting BS about nailing undocuemented workers and punishing them for looking for a job, and taking jobs from Americans …and how American can one be than getting a job?

      On the other hand, those that evade taxes, pay lower than minimum wages, and cheat the system…they get a free hand because they’re saying Americans won’t work.

      OK…which one do you support?

      • Bruce D.

        Come on HFlashman. That is just a flat out lie. Most people here want the employer fined heavily or put in jail. You know how to spin for sure. Your problem is that what you say is rarely true so your spin can no longer even be considered as a valid opinion. The best at spinning will not try to spin all the time as it exposes them as it has you.

    • Bob Wire

      Donald , I don’t think Criminal applies to all of them, maybe some but not all. It could be bureaucracy and the slow pace the long arms of government can move. ~ Trying to get people here with solid papers takes time and money. lots of both and then the papers are not citizenship papers but visa’s ~ there is all kind of visa’s ~ in the meantime people are living their lives and establishing themselves. ~ You know how life is “$hit happens” you’ve broke a leg and your milk cows ran off and you must find her.

  • da norseman

    Victory for We the People who have spoken and made our voices heard! The agony of defeat for Harry Reid, his allies and interest groups trying to defend the rights of drug dealers, smugglers, gun runners and kidnappers who illegally enter the U.S. to remain here.

    Dingy Harry’s days in the U.S. Senate are already numbered!!!

    • Bob Wire

      I don’t think so, I see no threat.

  • ABinGA

    Warrior-Liked your am post on the 10 points.

  • John

    Information about Gonorrhea Lectim

    The Center for Disease Control has issued a warning about a new virulent strain of this old disease. The disease is called Gonorrhea Lectim. It’s pronounced “Gonna re-elect ‘em,” and it is a terrible obamanation.

    The disease is contracted through dangerous and high risk behavior involving putting your cranium up your rectum. Many victims contracted it in 2008; but now most people, after having been infected for the past 1-2 years, are starting to realize how destructive this sickness is.

    It’s sad because Gonorrhea Lectim is easily cured with a new drug just coming on the market called Votemout. You take the first dose in 2010 and the second dose in 2012 and simply don’t engage in such behavior again; otherwise, it could become permanent and eventually wipe out all life as we know it.

    Several states are already on top of this, like Virginia and New Jersey, and apparently now Massachusetts, with many more seeing the writing on the wall.

    • eddie47d

      Gotta love that Republican humor!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      John,
      Most excellent!!!! Just do me a favor next time put up a spew allert cause now my puter is wet from my spewing coke all over it!!! LOL!!!

    • third party

      VERY FUNNY.A LITTLE HUMOR IS NEEDED AFTER A LONG WEEK OF BULL FROM OUR FAITHFUL NON LEADERS,THANKS.

  • http://gmail i41

    JeffH, do you get a better polish kicking muslim asses 5 times a day, or does head kicking those pedophiles pervs give you a spit pollish. Since jopa is confused about your highly polished boots. I found it takes about 10 illegal wet backs to get a shine, and another 10 to put the finest mirrored finish. For drug kingpin dealers, 5 will get your boots oiled and smoothed even the heals and the toe caps if they are lizard.

  • Raggs

    The progressive / idealogy will not give up on a simple plan of action as a vote, Does a majority matter to them ?

    As long as kunta-kenta is at his throne you can forget about what the conservatives think!

    Now what is worse than a man of power that has something to prove?

    o-dumbo has everything to prove, and nothing at all to back it up with.

    That makes him ( it ) a very dangerous man with nothing too lose.
    Hitler came from that same mindset…

  • DavidL

    Joe H.
    I want an intelligent and comprehensive immigration policy that gives all immigrants an opportunity to EARN their way to citizenship which benefits us. President Reagan gave them a blanket amnesty. I don’t agree with that approach. I suspect that you do not either.

    Joe H, our population is declining. Deporting them because “they broke the law” is not the answer. It’s simplistic and does not solve our problem that we need to grow our educated and productive citizen base. Where are we going to get the workers to pay the taxes to support our current and future standard of living? More specifically, where are we going to get the workers necessary to pay the taxes to support your Social Security when you retire?

    • http://?? Joe H.

      DavidL,
      “where are we gonna get the workers to support your social security when you retire?” From all the AMERICAN workers that are unemployed at this time!!! I’m 59 now and about to collect social security! They could put all the monies that they stole from social security and starting now put all the new hires on some type of a retirement investment that is 100% vested. with all the money repaid, the system would last at least till the retirees from the cut off point are covered!! That way they could end SS and do something better for the new workers! Don’t try to sell me a skunk and tell me it’s a room deoderizer, it still stinks!!!

  • chuck b

    davidl

    giving the illegals citizenship is outrageous. send them back now. we do not need to make this country another 3rd world nation. they might help pay your ss check for awhile until the country reverts to their standards. we have people, educated and skilled waiting to emigrate the correct way. if you think the population is declining, you better take another look. they are standing in line to die in california. we are overloaded with uneducated minorities.

    • DavidL

      Hey Chuck,
      I hear you and agree with some of the sentiment that you and Joe H talked about earlier. My point is that the whole issue is more complicated and needs a better solution than just trying to round up 12 million people and deport them. (Assuming we could deport them all and even pay to have it, which we can’t) Check the data, our population IS declining. We are also suffering a huge brain drain because we are losing doctors and other professional people educated here but who are not able to stay here. The result is that they leave and go elsewhere. We need a comprehensive immigration policy that addresses all the issues and needs of our country. We need an ever growing citizen tax base to sustain our standard of living, AND, support our social safety need which includes Social Security, Medicare, etc. for us all.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        DavidL,
        you want to see more Dr.s here?? Make it a little less expensive for the CITIZENS to go to school instead of making it easier for the foreiners and we will have a re-emergence of American Dr.s!!! Some of them have loans that don’t get paid off for 10-15 years if they are lucky!!!
        Look at some of the schools nationwide. They advertise in papers in thailand and if they have a teaching degree, they hire them so they will be willing to teach what they want! We have too many jobs and education being taken by foreign people that have no hold here like family. Married, I can see, just coming here and taking employment when we have about 20% unemployment is worse than rediculous!!

  • Bloodhound

    If DADT passed, it would hurt our ability as a Fighting Force! Many good men and women would quit who are now serving. Just because some gay got their panties in a twist and decided to raise cain about this, now the Demons suck it up!

    It would not bother me if illegal Mexicans want to join the military and go fight. If they make it thru their first three years Honorably, grant them citizenship, but not before! As far as the Dream Act about bringing the illegals and paying them to go to American Universities – Screw that! This is more insanity from Reid and his Demons! This should be in the Immigration Bill, not the Defense Bill. Reid needs kicked out ASAP! Along with the witch, Pelosi and the Court Jester, Obambi!

  • Bob Wire

    Oh really? I think a person worth can be found between their ears.

    Friedrich Wilhelm Augustin Ludolf Gerhard (Frederick William Augustus Henry Ferdinand) von Steuben also referred to as the Baron von Steuben,[1] (September 17, 1730 – November 28, 1794) was a Prussian aristocrat and military officer who served as inspector general and Major general of the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War. He is credited with teaching the Continental Army the essentials of military drill and discipline.[2] He wrote the Revolutionary War Drill Manual, the book that became the standard United States drill manual until the War of 1812, and served as General George Washington’s chief of staff in the final years of the war.

    Early years

    Friedrich von Steuben was born in Magdeburg, Duchy of Magdeburg, within today’s Germany, the son of Wilhelm Augustin von Steuben (1699–1783), a lieutenant of engineers. His mother was Elizabeth von Jagvodin. Steuben accompanied his father to the Russian Empire when Friedrich Wilhelm I, King of Prussia and Elector of Brandenburg, ordered Wilhelm into the service of Czarina Anna. The family returned to Prussia after the accession of Frederick the Great to the throne in 1740.

    Steuben was schooled in Breslau by Jesuits and, by the age of 16, was an officer in the Prussian military. During the Seven Years’ War he was a member of an infantry unit but served primarily as a staff officer. By 1761 he had risen to the rank of captain and was serving in the Prussian general headquarters as aid-de-camp of the king. Capatin Steuben was granted a canonry in Havelberg Cathedral, paying an annual stipend of 1,200 German florins. In 1762 he was selected as one of thirteen members of the “special class for the art of war” (Spezialklasse der Kriegskunst). Headmaster of this class was the king himself. The army was greatly reduced in size at the end of the war, and Steuben was one of many Prussian officers suddenly without work. His Prussian military career would later be exaggerated—he was not one of Frederick the Great’s generals—but his experience on a professional general staff, an agency then practically unknown outside of Prussia, would prove to be valuable in his American career.

    In 1764 Steuben became chamberlain to Fürst Josef Friedrich Wilhelm of Hohenzollern-Hechingen. In 1769, he started using the title of baron, based on a falsified lineage prepared by his father.[3] He was the only courtier to accompany his incognito prince to France in 1771, hoping to borrow money. Failing to find funds, they returned to Germany in 1775, deeply in debt.[1]

    In 1776, Steuben’s career at Hohenzollern-Hechigen ended in scandal: he was alleged to be gay and was accused of improper sexual behavior with young boys.[3] Whether or not Steuben was actually gay is not known, but the rumors compelled him to seek employment elsewhere.[3] Steuben tried employment in several foreign armies including Austria, Baden, and France.

    Steuben traveled to Paris in the summer of 1777. As luck would have it, he had formally been introduced to the French Minister of War, Claude Louis, Comte de Saint-Germain. The Count, fully realizing the potential of an officer with Prussian general staff training, further introduced him to Benjamin Franklin. Upon the Count’s recommendation, Steuben was introduced to George Washington by means of a letter from Franklin as a “Lieutenant General in the King of Prussia’s service,” an exaggeration of his actual credentials that appears to be based on a mistranslation of his service record. He was advanced travel funds and left Europe from Marseilles.[4]

    American Revolution
    General Von Steuben,

    On September 26, 1777, the Baron, his Italian greyhound, Azor (which he took with him everywhere), his young aide de camp Louis de Pontiere, his military secretary Pierre Etienne Duponceau, and two other companions, reached Portsmouth, New Hampshire and by December 1, was extravagantly entertained in Boston. Congress was in York, Pennsylvania, after being ousted from Philadelphia by the British advance. By February 5, 1778, Steuben had offered to volunteer without pay (for the time), and by the 23rd, Steuben reported for duty to Washington at Valley Forge. Steuben spoke little English and he often yelled to his translator, “Here! Come swear for me!”[citation needed] Colonel Alexander Hamilton and General Nathanael Greene were of great help in assisting Steuben in drafting a training program for the Army, which found approval with Washington.
    [edit] Training program

    Steuben’s training technique was to create a “model company”, a group of 120 chosen men who in turn successively trained other personnel at Regimental and Brigade levels. Steuben’s eccentric personality greatly enhanced his mystique. He trained the soldiers, who at this point were greatly lacking in proper clothing themselves, in full military dress uniform, swearing and yelling at them up and down in German and French. When that was no longer successful, he recruited Captain Benjamin Walker, his French-speaking aide, to curse at them for him in English. Steuben introduced a system of progressive training, beginning with the school of the soldier, with and without arms, and going through the school of the regiment. This corrected the previous policy of simply assigning personnel to regiments. Each company commander was made responsible for the training of new men, but actual instruction was done by selected sergeants, the best obtainable.

    Another program developed by Steuben was camp sanitation. He established standards of sanitation and camp layouts that would still be standard a century and a half later. There had previously been no set arrangement of tents and huts. Men relieved themselves where they wished and when an animal died, it was stripped of its meat and the rest was left to rot where it lay. Steuben laid out a plan to have rows for command, officers and enlisted men. Kitchens and latrines were on opposite sides of the camp, with latrines on the downhill side. There was the familiar arrangement of company and regimental streets.

    Perhaps Steuben’s biggest contribution to the American Revolution was training in the use of the bayonet. Since the Battle of Bunker Hill, Americans had been mainly dependent upon using their ammunition to win battles. Throughout the early course of the war, Americans used the bayonet mostly as a cooking skewer or tool rather than as a fighting instrument. Steuben’s introduction of effective bayonet charges became crucial. In the Battle of Stony Point, American soldiers attacked with unloaded rifles and won the battle solely on Steuben’s bayonet training.

    The first results of Steuben’s training were in evidence at the Battle of Barren Hill, 20 May 1778 and then again at the Battle of Monmouth in June 1778. Steuben, by then serving in Washington’s Headquarters, was the first to determine the enemy was heading for Monmouth. Washington recommended appointment of Steuben as Inspector General on April 30; Congress approved it on May 5. During the winter of 1778-1779, Steuben prepared Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States, commonly known as the “Blue Book.”[5][6] Its basis was the training plan he had devised at Valley Forge.[7]
    [edit] Southern campaign

    In 1780 Steuben sat on the court-martial of the British Army officer Major John André, captured and charged with espionage in conjunction with the defection of General Benedict Arnold. He later traveled with Nathanael Greene, the new commander of the Southern campaign. He quartered in Virginia since the American supplies and soldiers would be provided to the army from there. During the spring of 1781, he aided Greene in the campaign in the south, culminating in the delivery of 450 Virginia Continentals to Lafayette in June.

    He was forced to take sick leave, rejoining the army for the final campaign at Yorktown, where his role was as commander of one of the three divisions of Washington’s troops. Steuben gave assistance to Washington in demobilizing the army in 1783 as well as aiding in the defense plan of the new nation. He was discharged from the military with honor on March 24, 1783.

    Final years

    Steuben became an American citizen by act of the Pennsylvania legislature in March 1784 (and later by the New York authorities in July 1786). With the war over, Steuben resigned from service and first settled on Manhattan Island, where he became a prominent figure and elder in the German Reformed Church. However, even with Congress giving him large sums of money, he still managed to become largely indebted. Thus, Congress gave him a pension of $2,500 a year which he had to keep until his death. Steuben eventually settled on a small estate in the vicinity of Utica, New York, on land granted to him for his military service. He later assisted in the founding of the Society of the Cincinnati and was appointed a Regent for what evolved into the State University of New York. He never married and had no children. He left his estate to General Benjamin Walker and Captain William North, who had served as his aides-de-camp during the war, and with whom he had had an “extraordinarily intense emotional relationship … treating them as surrogate sons”.[8] He is buried at what is now the Steuben Memorial State Historic Site.

  • USMC

    WHEN serving my country during desert storm,and facing death daily,All I wanted is someone to shoot to kill,I did not care if they were gay,straight or indifferent,my job was to make sure my ass was covered by a guy who could pull the trigger.MY fellow AMERICANS had my back,and I know for a fact some were gay,I really did not care,I was safe,and my platoon lost not one solder for two years.WHEN facing real death away from home,we were as one.Every military man,or woman who really served thinks the same way,Only old men start wars young men fight,TOGETHER GAY,STRAIGHT,OR INDIFFERENT our military is the best,hands down,it’s too bad our hands are tied in certain political regimes.WARS are fought to win,not pussy foot around for decades,we have the capability to destroy any enemy in the matter of a few month’s.BUT some higher anarchy will not let it be done.

    • luke

      Thank you for your service,and your comments seem to be from the heart,here at home we look at thinks a bit different,sometimes without thinking of being in combat,or with the concerns of a fellow solder being killed next to us.I agree,I would not care who had my back as well.

  • third party

    USMC,thank you for your service,and your points are very factual,my little brother say’s the same thing you mentioned.Some are made fun of,but in real combat they all were together,a little ribbing never hurt anyone who is in the military volunteering.The goal is the same.

  • jopa

    USMC;Words from a true American hero, thank you.Ther are so many Larry Craig types on this page they should just come out of the closet instead of gay bashing.There is one guy calls himself gunner689 who claims he was in the rump rangers.I know that unit is not in th USMC must be a figment of his imagination.

  • Anthony

    The End All – Be ALL to the entire discussion —-

    http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/members_of_obama_s_church_kill.html

    THIS IS WHY…. the Bill “will” be brought back up for a vote.

  • smilee

    It’s interesting that no one here has brought up that in the last month two courts have held that the “Don’t ask Don’t tell” law is unconstitutional and the one court ordered the effected woman in the one case reinstated. Are we looking at a possible flood of lawsuits by effected persons or even a class action suit. If congress does not vote to repeal it maybe the suits will be upheld and the courts will do it for them.

  • jopa

    smilee;It probably was’nt broadcast on Faux news and most of these people are uninformed.

  • Raul Pompa

    The Dream Act was a vicious attack from the republicans they want the hispanic vote . but stab the hispanics in the back with lies . the letter R does not stand for republican its stands for Racist . republicans are NO better then democrats when it comes to politics all we get is lies on top of more lies . the Dream Act is not dead it will return and kick the racist republicans in the ASS . come on hispanic’s register and vote the racist republicans out of office including democrats that hate us .

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