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Two Possible Mass Shootings Stopped By Armed Americans

December 19, 2012 by  

Two Possible Mass Shootings Stopped By Armed Americans

As the debate surrounding the proper place of guns in modern America continues, there are stories (understandably overshadowed by the horrific tragedy that occurred last week in Connecticut) that highlight the valuable self-defense aspect of carrying a concealed weapon.

Earlier this month in Casper, Wyo., a man walked into a busy nail salon with the possible intent to rob and harm its patrons. A woman who was getting her nails done at the time saw him pull a weapon and pulled her own.

Here is a report from the Casper Star-Tribune:

Police say about 5:30 p.m. on Dec. 3, a man walked into Modern Nails at 2645 E. Second St. and asked a female employee if she wanted to buy some diamonds. The man walked toward the front desk area and the woman replied that she had no money to buy diamonds.

A witness said the man then reached into his coat pocket and began to take out a silver-colored pistol.

At that moment, a woman who was getting her nails done reached into her purse and got her own firearm. Police say the man never fully raised the gun and left the building after seeing the customer had her weapon out.

On Monday, a gunman entered the China Garden Restaurant in San Antonio, Texas, allegedly looking to do harm to an employee of the establishment. When the employee wasn’t there, police report, the man pulled a gun and attempted to open fire on random patrons of the restaurant. When his gun jammed, patrons fled to a movie theater nearby. The gunman followed and was able to shoot one man in the chest before being neutralized by an off-duty sheriff’s deputy working security at the theater.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • Doc Sarvis

    A LOT more are stopped by mental health professionals and by perps NOT having an automatic weapon to use.

    • Tigerous

      Agreed, and thank goodness for that, but it has nothing to do with the role of firearms.

      • Doc Sarvis

        SURE it does. Reread the last eight words in my one sentence post.

      • JC

        Curious Doc…do you know the difference between and automatic and a semi-automatic?
        Because you don’t seem to. The killer at Sandy Hook was using a semi-automatic which is NOT an assault rifle. So as usual, you liberal idiots are going after the wrong gun and penalizing law abiding citizens with your completely unrealistic ideology.
        And sinse you’re so convinced that Big Pharma has all the answers….why don’t you medicate yourself into a lucid state? Hmmm? ;-)

      • Steve E

        JC, that just show you how ignorant the left is about guns. They think they are experts, but do not know what an automatic weapon is. Is anyone really going to validate someone who doesn’t know a thing about what they talking about?

    • Robert

      Ok Doc what do you do when your goverment runs guns to mexico and then declares presidential emunity. Do you have a mental health cure for that.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Elect good government and hold them accountable.

      • steve

        doc you’ll have to go back to adam and eve to secure the word good. and that’s before satan came into the picture.

      • Steve E

        Doc, you have to have good people to elect good government. And we are all out of them right now.

      • JUKEBOX

        Remove Obama & Holder from office due to diminished mental capacity.

      • momo

        Doc Sarvis says:
        December 19, 2012 at 7:54 am
        Elect good government and hold them accountable.

        We can’t when morons like you can vote!

      • http://www.facebook.com/dan.mancuso.56 Dan Mancuso

        Robert, is “emunity” some kind of new fangled health care protocol from Obamacare to protect us from a new strain of ‘bird-brain’ flu? Sorry, I couldn’t resist.

    • TGechManDan

      A crazy dilusional individual determined to harm others will use what ever weapon available. Just look at the mass Stabbing at the school in china that happened last Friday.Mass stabbings happen more frequently then shootings are, they are generally not reported by the msm as often.

      • Jonathan Baker

        @ TGechManDan “Mass stabbings happen more frequently then shootings are, they are generally not reported by the msm as often.” So, tell us where you got your information. What sources of information do you have that the rest of us don’t to allow you to make such an *informed* statement? Hyperbole will not do credit to your position. And I happen to agree with your position.

        Persuation with logic and facts is what needs to be articulated. As an example, from http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001915.htm the leading cause of death of children ages 0 – 1, developmental and genetic conditions present at birth; ages 1 – 4, accidents; ages 5 – 15, accidents; 15 – 24, accidents. A search of the internet for “how many children are killed with guns” will produce many informative hits.

        As sad as this tragedy is, the root cause is not the gun used in the killing but the person pulling the trigger. What has cause him or her to kill? What can be done to change the circumstances so that people won’t be driven to commit these senseless acts? Does the exposure to violence in games, on tv, in the movies, in mass killings using drones, or state execution for crimes promote a disregard for human life? Taking away the tools will not cure the killer. Correcting the environment that produced the killer may.

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        A few years back my brother-in-law played pool with some guys and won a lot of money, he was staying at my home and the guys followed him to my place with the intent of getting their money back. There were six of them, with clubs, tire irons and more and they would have broke into my home where my wife and two daughters were if I hadn’t confronted them with my pistol. I believe that pistol, semi-auto saved our family that night don’t want to think of what would have happened if I didn’t have that weapon against six drunk and crazy men. Gun Control is hitting what you aim at and the Marine Corps taught me well and I will always defend my family at all cost. God Bless: PS Jesus asked his followers if they had a sword? And when they said no, He told them to sell their coats and buy one.

      • jag57

        You bring up an interesting point, any weapon; why instead of protecting some children while the perp was reloading, why didn’t the teacher use anything she could get her hands on to attack him? Anything can serve as a deadly “assault weapon,” pencil, pen, scissors, just about anything. After he reloaded, he killed her.

    • johnny

      Americans use guns like this two million times a year to stop major felonies.You just don;t hear about it in your MSM spoon feedings.

    • Mark111

      @Doc. One of the first things Hitler championed and accomplished as a member of the Reichstag was to pass a law requiring registration of all civilian firearms. Later, when he became chancellor, he confiscated civilian owned firearms. I know some police and former police personally and a few who work(ed) for DEA and ATF. Based on what I know of them, I really do believe citizens of the USA should be allowed to own whatever firearms the DEA and ATF are allowed to use–at least we will stand a chance when some President decides he should be president-for-life or some political party decides when they are in the majority they want to make the system a one-party system.

      • steve

        that’s coming

      • JC

        Mark, I might add that Hitler “disappeared” those gun owners, in case they might have any guns hidden away with which to oppose him.

      • Steve E

        Just keep this phrase in mind and live by it…”Death before Disarmament”.
        It’s Militia Time.

      • Walter77777

        Before Hitler (Y;makh sh’mo v’zikroh!)* there were gun control laws in Germany with the ownership of handguns restricted to law enforcement and trained persons who had passed background checks and had responsibilities as bodyguards or guardians of valuables. Long guns were registered.

        the only gun control law passed in Germany in the 30s banned Jews from owning firearms.

        To this day Germany registers long guns and restricts ownership of handguns.

        w.

        *Blot out his name and memory. a curse written or said when mentioning a great enemy of Jews

      • JC

        Well Walter, thanks for verifying exactly why there should NOT be gun registration.
        Wasn’t it convenient for Hitler to have a list of all the guns to go and confiscate?
        Then start murdering defenseless citizens? Surely your not advocating such a thing for your fellow Americans…are you?

      • jag57

        You bring Rhodesia to mind, which Carter turned over to Robert Mugabe, in 1979, and his thugs have killed farmers and stolen farm land; now they can’t even feed themselves, where Rhodesia had been the bread basket of Africa.

    • JC

      Doc Sarvis says:

      December 19, 2012 at 6:57 am

      A LOT more are stopped by mental health professionals and by perps NOT having an automatic weapon to use.
      ______________________________________________________________________

      Take a look Doc….here’s someone who agrees that drugs are the answer,
      and was willing to commit a crime to get some….”good stuff”

      Pharmacist John Agyemang was working alone around 2 p.m. at Jolin’s Pharmacy when an armed man entered and demanded painkillers. Agyemang distracted the robber by telling him there was someone entering the store. When the suspect turned around, Agyemang dashed to the store’s back room where he kept his gun. According to police, multiple shots were fired and the suspect was able to get away on a mountain bike. It is unknown whether or not the suspect was wounded. There were no other reported injuries. (CBS, Winslow Township, NJ, 9/12/12)

    • flfarmer

      Automatic weapons are and have been illegal in the USA for ever!
      There were NO AUTOMATIC WEAPONS USED IN THE HORRIBLE MASS MURDERS over the past years! Anyone that thinks gun control laws will stop these murders is completely DELUSIONAL !!!

      • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

        Um, actually, automatic weapons are legal, but are cost & hassle prohibitive for the arms themselves, as well as the taxes & licenses that apply. Most folks either choose not to spend that much money, or not to bother with the bureaucracy involved in the exercise of this theoretically God given right. (Also, our Second Amendment is intended to be about keeping our government in line as much as any other aspect of arms possession.) Anyone reputable and stable can rent & fire full auto weapons at several ranges around here. Can’t leave with them unless you have proper (complicated/expensive) Federal license & lots of cash to pay for the gun though.

      • jag57

        Gun control is a total failure; where guns are banned, as in schools, theaters, malls, or anywhere a lot of people gather, massacres happen, because this creates a safe workplace for criminals.

        At this very time, you can bet there is some deranged person out there thinking about how he can perpetrate a grander massacre. These perps love talk about gun control and love gun bans,

    • Randy G

      Ever notice that when a driver under the influence injures or kills someone they go after the driver not the car( That caused the problem) but a shooter(under some influence) they go after the gun. How many people are killed by cars every day?

      • http://WWSDeals.com Winfield

        An excellent, rational, analogy sir. It’s a shame the majority cannot follow this simple logic.

      • Vicki

        They can not follow or they choose to not follow.

    • GunSupporter

      Actually, over the last decade, better than 90% of the mass murderers were using prescription anti-depressants. A little publicized fact is that anti-depressants tend to cause suicidal and homicidal feelings. That’s drugs that were prescribed by a doctor coupled with guns that were obtained illegally (in spite of gun control laws).

      • Andrew Roseweir

        This is the absolute truth. As a retired law enforcement officer and ex military veteran. Most people do not understand that these people that commit these crimes are on some sort of drug . It turns out allegedly that this Ct. scum bag was pissed at Mom because she was advocating putting him in a mental health facility? I agree weapons should be locked up securely in the home.Other than that nothing would have stopped this guy even if he had to use a kitchen knife or a hammer??????? Wake up! There is evil in the world, regardless of what causes them to do their acts -the weapons are not the cause.

    • http://twitter.com/Tinkerbell25773 Camille Williams (@Tinkerbell25773)

      Doc, “automatic” weapons are already banned, and you’re also wrong on defensive gun use; guns are used over 2 million times a year for personal defense.

    • http://twitter.com/Tinkerbell25773 Camille Williams (@Tinkerbell25773)

      Doc, that isn’t true at all! Let me ask you a question; as anti-gun you are, I would bet that you also believe the war on drugs is also a failure; druggies don’t abide by drug laws so libs want to decriminalize drug dealers and users, if drug laws don’t work, what makes you think criminals will abide by gun laws?

    • Oldshooter

      As a mental health worker myself, I wonder where you got the data you report. For example, how do we know (how COULD we know) how many mass shootings were stopped by mental health professionals? I’m aware of no data addressing this and can’t even see how it could be gathered if someone decided to study it.

      Second, your contention that the lack of “automatic” (I assume you meant semi-automatic – but that’s a quibble) guns in the possession of potential mass murderers prevents, or has prevented, other mass shootings seems equally shaky. There isn’t any data on this either, that I’m aware of. In fact, all the available data that I have seen suggests just the opposite. The recent proliferation (within the last 25 years or so) of readily accessible guns, both handguns and rifles, both semiautomatic and other types, is only correlated with a dramatic reduction of shootings, both mass and otherwise. Further, the mass shootings occurring in the last 30 years have occurred almost exclusively in places where the carrying of guns was illegal. While not definitive, this strongly suggests that mass murderers avoid places where they think others may be carrying those semiautomatic (or other) guns you seem to be so opposed to.

      In fact, all the data I have found strongly suggests (for technical mathematical reasons it is statistically impossible to “prove” it) that the modern proliferation of those very popular semiautomatic guns, in conjunction with modern concealed carry laws, is the reason we don’t have MORE shootings, rather than less. You can find the best synopsis of research in the field on Dr. John Lott’s website. Just Google it for more data.

    • Mike The American

      ” A LOT more are stopped by mental health professionals ” . Newsflash, Damn near everyone of these mass shooting in the past few decades were committed by people were on anti-depressants & other anti-psychotic medications prescribed by so called mental health professionals so I fail to see your logic.

  • Norm Dahm

    An S&W 38 saved me and my teenage children from a person who was drunk & intended to do us harm.
    There was no shooting and the man fled when he saw the firearm

    • http://twitter.com/Tinkerbell25773 Camille Williams (@Tinkerbell25773)

      I have a CCW and I carry a S&W Lady Smith, .38 special, it’s light and easy to get too. I carry everywhere it’s legal and our daughters 11and 12 know this. We are members of a shooting club that has a shooting range that includes, county, city, and state police. Our girls enjoy competitive shooting contests with our .22 rifles…My dad used to work at a liquor store years ago and a would be robber came in with something under his shirt, he said it was a gun, Dad said he saw what looked like a barrel, but dad thinking he was going to be shot, pulled his and the would be robber ran out…dad called the police and he was caught within hours. We don’t shop at stores that don’t allow legal CCW carry, nor do we eat at resurants that don’t allow us to legally carry.

  • David Mixon

    Hand guns are not automatics. They are simiautomatic. There is a huge difference. You need to learn it.

    • Steve E

      Just wanted to throw this in there…Revolvers are not semiautomatic, neither are bolt or lever action repeater rifles.

  • raysncane

    There was also an incident in Wausau Wi. About a week and a half ago. A motorist was victim of a road rage incident, his car was rammed, two individuals yanked him out of the vehicle and started to beat him. He was able to pull his weapon and hold the suspects till the police arrived. He was a concealed carry permit holder and informed the police of the fact during the 911 call as not to alarm the police when they arrived on scene.
    This situation could have turned out quite differently had he not been carrying.

    • Doc Sarvis

      “Road rage incidents” ARE NOT Mass Shootings!

      • raysncane

        No kidding? It’s not really about “mass killings” as much as it’s about the right to be able to defend against them or other threats.
        Let me get some crayons so I can explain it to you!

      • Doc Sarvis

        The article we are commenting on IS about mass shootings!

      • JC

        Doc needs to keep the conversation specific to his weak arguments so he can feel like he has a valid point somehow. It’s a common trait of control freaks everywhere.

      • JC

        In fact we could broaden the discussion by pointing that the article is about stopping crimes in progress, which it is…

        So to that end here’s a site with hundreds, if not thousands of accounts of gun owneres stopping crimes. Of course the liberal media won’t mention any of these now will they?

        After locking up, a female employee of Cakes and Confections 4U was leaving the business through a back door when she realized she was cornered by two strange men. One man struck her in the jaw while the other ripped off her necklace and earrings. When the men then attempted to sexually assault the woman, she produced a concealed .32 cal. firearm from her waistband and fired. Both men immediately dropped the stolen jewelry and ran. It was last reported that the assailants were still at large. After the incident, the woman said her firearm saved her life and that she had a strong message to all women, “If you don’t have a gun or you’re scared of guns, get familiar with them and get a gun.” (FOX Carolina 21, Landrum, SC, 8/29/12)

        http://www.americanrifleman.org/BlogList.aspx?cid=25&id=21

      • Doc Sarvis

        Just last week some of you folks were chastizing me for not sticking to the subject.

      • The Big Easy

        @-doc———–COMRADE————What difference does it make if there is only one or many victims???????? They DO have a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to protect ourselves from the criminals and the whack jobs.————You sound like one of those ADULT DIAPER BOYS that has a very heavily soiled ADULT DIAPER that is ooooooozzzzzzzzzing out all over your ADULT DIAPER BOY BED and yourself.You should get your ADULT DIAPER BOY MOMMIE to give you a CHANGE and be sure to have your ADULT MOMMIE to wipe all that ADULT DIAPER DRIBBLE from your mouth.——————What a puke———————

      • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

        Doc, the relevant idea here is not the specifics of any particular incident, no matter how horrible. The core principle is my and your God given right to defend one’s self and other innocents from being harmed or killed unjustly. It is your choice alone whether to exercise that right or not. You, nor the government, have nothing to say about the choice I or anyone else makes in such a circumstance. This is at the foundation of the entire concept of Liberty; free people have the right and the ability and the responsibility to make these choices for themselves, rather than submitting to the fact that when seconds count, the authorities are minutes away. Hopefully, if you or yours are ever in such a grave circumstance, I or someone who feels like me will be nearby to act in your behalf, since your stance here implies that you will not be willing or able to do so. There are millions of instances every year where armed free citizens prevent or stop terrible things from taking place by having and being willing to use their guns. I for one am comforted by the fact that many of my fellow citizens have chosen to stand up to this responsibility. I for one am also committed to resisting vigorously those who would attempt to interfere with this right. If I didn’t, I couldn’t look my family or my fellows in the eye and claim to be responsible enough to claim all the benefits of being an American Citizen. Hopefully, as you go about enjoying the benefits of being an American, you will come to appreciate that your share of the concurrent responsibility goes beyond paying the lowest taxes that your accountant can finagle you…

      • Mac M

        Ok, I think we need to clear something up here. Most (not all but the vast majority) of handguns are either revolvers, or semi-automatics. Just as darn few long guns in the public are “full Automatic”. They all are designed to make a “projectile” come out of the barrel and hit or kill something.

        I have personally seen a “gun fight” on a construction site between two carpenters using air operated nail guns that shot 16d nails over 100 feet. When the foreman pulled the plug on the air lines, they went to hammers.

        What I would like to get cleared up is what level, or number, does it take for people to get onto the band wagon for gun control?? But it does not seem like, to me anyway, that the “Gun Control” crowd get excited until it is a multiple victim shooting.

        One is too many, and if someone should be foolish enough to threaten my life, they will be the winner in the short life contest between themselves and my legal CCW weapon.

        I think they should “Control” Cars and booze. We kill more people on the highways of this country than guns do. Every year, and alcohol is in a lot of cases is a contributing factor.

        I guess I have my thinking backwards to the “crowd”. I think, at least for myself, that the Swiss have the right idea. The government provides and requires that every household be issued not only a rifle, but also the bullets and training to go with it. Oh, and they have the lowest crime rate, and lowest death by gun assault of all the industrialized nations in the world.

        You won’t hear of the school in Texas that encourages CCWs not just with the principal but several of the teachers too, ever having a situation like we had in CT last week.

        Go to any prison. Ask any inmate that is in there for either a violent crime, or robbery, burglary, car jacking etc. Which they would prefer: An unarmed, defenseless victim or to pick one that they know is armed and will use it. Silly question, really.

        What is next? Hammer Control. Knife Control. Club control. Fist Control. Rope Control. Rock Control. Martial Arts Control. Bicycle Control. Skateboard Control. Or in the case of the first murder…… Jaw bone of an ass Control.

        • James Quimby

          There is no community that has any more regulations and rules or control of the community members than in a maximum security prison. But even with this amount of control, there is no way that the prison management can stop the murders, assaults, rapes, drug use, and other crimes in the prison community. How can any government stop all such crimes in an open society without anywhere near that level of control?

          The government can say how bad things are like the Newtown shooting, but they cannot prevent all such things from happening in the future no matter what laws are passed. All new laws can do is to further restrict the rights of the law abiding who need more freedom to protect themselves and their families and other people they might have helped.

  • http://aaron.com Aaron

    Vous avez de la chance de pouvoir posséder une arme à la maison; surtout luttez pour ce droit fondamental.

    • 9mm protection

      Learn to use spell check, your spelling is so awful I can’t make understand a thing you are trying to say
      ;-)

      • Vicki

        It’s not bad spelling. Its an encryption code.

        “You have the chance to have a weapon at home especially fight for this fundamental right.”
        Is the decoded message. The coding used is called “French”.

      • Last of the Jedi

        Lets hold criminals responsible,not peaceful citizens.Also this gun control issue needs setteled by The American people not obamas UN mandate!!

  • Mr Diesel

    Or by people who don’t know the difference between an automatic and a semi-automatic.

  • http://www.chartersouth.com Ray McLeod

    Do your research. Of the millions of “legal” gun owners, less than 1% ever commit a
    gun crime. The States with the highest crime rate are the States that have laws against
    gun ownership. Those States that change their laws to allow citizens to “legally” own
    hand guns show that the crime rate is reduced. Legal gun ownership is what needs to
    be addressed and not to disarm the public as Germany, Russia, and South Africa
    in the past to reduce the threat against a tyrannous government.

    • Jeff

      By simple calculation, the number is more like a quarter of a tenth of a percent (0.025%). And that calculation is based on each crime being committed with a separate weapon.

  • Richard Bushong

    I don’t know too many 5 – 10 year olds that can protect themselves so it is up to the parents , teahers, and administrators to do it or have hardened locked doors and armed security at the schools. Take the money from feel good legislation and pay for hardware and personnel to accomplish this. Be glad we don’t live where we worry about where missles are going to land. There is not any legislation or words that will prevent this only diligence and responsibility.

  • David L. McKenzie

    I agree Aaron we do have the ability to have weapons to protect ourselves and our families that some in other countries do not have. The main problem is not the guns but the people holding the guns. There are two types, first of all the criminal that simply will kill you to take what you have and secondly the mentally ill that have a constant struggle going on in their heads that they are not thinking rationally. Unfortunately the mental health community has succumbed to the political correctness driven attitude that these mentally ill people should be allowed to live free among the relatively sane members of our society and we find ourselves under attack by them. They cannot control their thoughts and many times their emotions but this does not mean they are not intelligent or able to reason. They simply have trouble interpreting the results of their thoughts into what we consider rational actions. These people are capable of detailed planning and scheduling of their actions but for irrational reasons and obviously horrifying results. Hopefully the medical and mental community will pull their heads out and finally do something about this problem.

    • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

      Sadly, when sick people cross the line and become involved in destruction they have placed themselves in the same category as a rampaging animal, and unfortunately the same countermeasures sometimes become required. Again, the point is whether we as individuals choose to face this scenario responsibly, or to accept that when seconds count, help is minutes away. I can’t change the mental health system, or the voices in your head. I can conduct my life so that I am not the victim of our system’s or some unfortunate sicko’s biases and tribulations. This is my and your God given right, whether we choose to exercise it or not. As for me and mine, we choose to live free, and to do whatever we must in order to continue doing so…

  • David L. McKenzie

    I probably should say that I am and have been a conceal carry license holder since it has been possible in my state. I have had two incidents where I had to draw my weapon but have never fired a round under these circumstances. I shoot in competitively with handguns and train regularly for self defense. Anyone that does carry and does not train is a fool. Just because you happen to own a scalpel does not make you qualified to do a heart transplant. The talk about automatics vs. semiautomatics is just dribble by people who know very little about the subject, they simply have an agenda to promote. I shoot with a revolver and can shoot all 6 rounds in less than 2 seconds and all of them will hit the target, a re-load takes about 1 second. Yes someone with a semiautomatic can shoot more rounds quicker but twelve rounds in 5 seconds is still plenty fast enough to do damage if one is so inclined. The problem is not a gun problem it is a people problem. Keep guns away from people that should not have access to them.

    • steve

      amen to that

    • Daveh234

      So your advocating restrictions then?

      • David L. McKenzie

        No I am advocating enforcement of the existing laws. It is already a crime to allow mentally ill people to have access to firearms so infrom those that already own the weapons that they are responsible for obeying that law. Unfortunately these and many other current laws are ignored.

      • Vicki

        Definition of “mentally ill”. And are you willing to imprison them to protect them as was done in the past?

  • Vietnam6871

    And an “assault rifle” as described by the dumb-ass press is not an assault rifle. It is the same as a normal hunting rifle that is semi-automatic. The magazine might hold more on an AR15 or AK47 look-alike but it doesn’t take long to reload a hunting rifle so there is virtually no difference except in looks. A real assault rifle is fully automatic and, although these can be purchased by you or me, they have to be processed by a Federal Firearms Licensee with a Class III license and there are very few of them. The background checking is unbelievably extensive and time consuming. A $200 tax is paid to the ATF to start the process and the wait can easily be two years. BUT – you can buy a fully automatic AK47 or Uzi, etc. Now THOSE are assault rifles.
    ALSO, I have 9mm semi-automatic pistols that will hold 15 rounds and I can eject a mag and slam a new one home in less than one second – are the dumb-asses going to call those assault rifles?
    I am sick and tired of you pathetic liberals that will politicize a horror like Newtown. You are despicable. Get your facts straight. The cities with the strictest gun controls have the worst crime rates. Where ever concealed carry permits have been allowed, the crime rates have dropped dramatically. The bad guys will always have guns so the more good guys also have guns, the fewer the crimes. Just ask the Aussies about gun control, over 80% of them now deeply regret their no-guns policy and the violent crime rate has already more than doubled.

    • JC

      RIGHT ON !!

    • Jeff

      In answer to your question, Diane Feinstein lists any handgun that has a detachable magazine or a fixed magazine that can contain more than 10 rounds as an assault weapon. That’s all of them.

      It’s interesting that the gun control advocates have legislation already drafted. They wait, like ghoulish vultures, until a mass shooting occurs so they can urge the people to act in haste baed on emotion rather than reason.

      The only difference between the left wing and vultures is that vultures have a vital place in nature. The vultures would also be offended by the comparison.

    • Steve E

      It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.
      The first year results are now in:
      Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
      Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
      Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
      In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)

      • JC

        The results speak for themselves.

  • Eddie Smith

    In 1968, as an 18 year old kid, I went to Vietnam. Back then the question each Soldier had to ask themselves was, when it comes time and I am being shot at will I be able to pull the trigger and take a human life? This question could not be answered until that actual moment arrived, and some found out that the answer was no. We were raised on “thou shall not kill” and “all life is sacred”. We were raised with Pinball and Pool halls, and gun violence, on television and in the movies was always for the protection of life not for the senseless taking of it.
    Today there is an entirely different culture in America. Gun violence in the movies is glorified as a way to quick fame and respect from your peers. Parents have been legislated away from their responsibility to raise their children as self-respecting, productive, responsible members of society. When a child does something wrong, we now have to talk to them and explain what they did wrong and why they shouldn’t do it again. Children are now taught that if you raise a hand to them “if you touch me I will call Child Protective Services”. A good “Ass whipping” never hurt a child for more than a few minutes and it reinforced the idea that we meant what we said. I do not advocate beating a child but a spanking is sometimes necessary. Repeating yourself a dozen times does nothing to deter or teach a child.
    I am now 63 years old and I live in Texas. I have owned guns for all of my adult life. In September 2011 my house burned and I lost all of them except one. I have owned that one for about 30 years and have not even fired it in over 20 years, it is for home defense. In the state of Texas I cannot get a permit for concealed carry because I carry a Veterans Administration disability rating of 100%, for Post- Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Because of the misinformation in the Media and on Television lawmakers think I am a time bomb waiting to explode and go on a rampage. If anything, exactly the opposite is true. I am far more fearful of being locked in a cage than of anything else. If you do a background check on me, you will find that I have spent 1 night in jail for Public intoxication and disorderly conduct, when I was 15 years old.
    Gun control is not the answer to the problem of mass murders. The answer is to reinstall the sanctity of all life and good family values in our youth. It appears that the recent episodes of mass violence have occurred most in states with the strictest gun control laws, with the exceptions of Colorado where both instances, Columbine and the Movie Theater, were in so called “Gun free zones”. Ask Chicago and New York City how their gun control laws are working out?

    • Walter77777

      Eddie: PTSD is a whole range of symptoms, and many vets who were in Vietnam some time 1965-to the end of USA involvement have had flashbacks and a range of other symptoms. A dear friend of mine who also had PTSD had a Colt.45 in the home because he feared all sorts of terrible things happening.

      In 1980 he took his piece and shot himself on the absolute spur of the moment.

      W.

      • Eddie Smith

        Walter, I know all about that. When I was first diagnosed, in 1995, I went to the In-patient PTSD program in Waco, Texas. And then followed up with over 15 years of 1 a week group sessions. That, at least, kept me from doing something stupid. It is amazing what spending 2 hours a week with a group of people you feel you can trust, who feel what you feel and you can talk about anything with can help. I started dating my wife, of 43 years, before I went to Vietnam the first time. He knows how I was before going and how I have changed.She is very good at knowing when and what to say and when to leave me alone.

  • Steve E

    During World War II. The Japanese did not attack the U.S. mainland because their leader said that “in the U.S., there is a gun under every blade of grass”.

  • http://WWSDeals.com Winfield

    Arm and train the willing hero responders already on the scene: the priciples and teachers in the, now, “gun free zones” like Sandy Hook’s heroic priciple.
    Front Sight firearms training institute will train three from each scool for free. This has been a standing offer from it’s founder, Dr Ignatious Piazza, since Columbine 13 years ago.
    Let’s level the playing field and afford our kids realistic protection in this, out of control, world we live in these days!
    Front Sight’s courses provide training, to levels of competence with firearms, equal to or above that of law enforcement and the military.

    • Larry K.

      I sent that notice about front sight to everyone on my e-mail list and put it on my facebook page and shared it with all my fb friends, i wanted as many people as i could to know about this free offer from front sight..

  • ob Rice

    Actually Steve,what he said is there is a person,with a gun,under every blade of grass…

  • Sam Adams

    A armed citizen stopped the shooting in Oregon. He didn,t have to shoot he just showed his weapon at point blank range and the shooter shot himself.

  • Les

    Some where in the American fabric it changed from “Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness” to “The Pursuit of Your Life, Liberty and Happiness”.

  • http://yagooft.info YAGOOFT

    For every sad killing, none more sad than the CT killings, there are dozens of saved lives due to legal gun ownership, so once again the liberals are taking their anti gun rhetoric to the press when a disaster like this happens. Very sad day when a tragedy has to be made into a political statement by the masses of asses in government.

    • Vicki

      YAGOOFT writes:
      “…so once again the liberals are taking their anti gun rhetoric to the press when a disaster like this happens. ”

      A disaster THEY caused by creating GunFree zones.

    • Mac M

      All that you say is very true.

      To understand an argument you can just look at the last one you had with anybody. Do you turn what they have to say against yourself? Of course not. But Politicians are masters of using any situation, good or bad, to their own use. They are not going to use the statistics that say that an armed person was able to repel or defend themselves and or their loved ones. It does not support the position they want to put forth.

      For instance, their point (gun control) is that one man with guns killed 26 people in a school that was a defenseless gun free area. Out of the 316 million Americans 315,999,999 did not do so is counter productive for them and mentioning that fact is to be avoided like the plague.

  • GregB

    FACTS COUNT – NOT UNSUPPORTED RUMORS
    There is no way the USA or this blog will be able to move forward on any important debate unless FACTS and footnoting are the cornerstone .
    For example below Steve E stated: “The Japanese did not attack the U.S. mainland because their leader said that “in the U.S., there is a gun under every blade of grass”.
    >>>FACT: their Admiral Yamamoto stated that it was simply impossible for Japan to bring enough naval power to begin to attack the USA. That blade of grass rumor must be fueled by grass………..

    Vietnam 6871 stated:”Get your facts straight. The cities with the strictest gun controls have the worst crime rates. Where ever concealed carry permits have been allowed, the crime rates have dropped dramatically. The bad guys will always have guns so the more good guys also have guns, the fewer the crimes. Just ask the Aussies about gun control, over 80% of them now deeply regret their no-guns policy and the violent crime rate has already more than doubled.”
    >>> are these claims supported by FACTS? If so,pls state them.
    For example I know that NYC’s homicide rate dropped dramatically after Mayor Bloomberg instituted draconian measures. Austraila’s “experiment” seems to be working according to their government: “The public’s perception is that violence is increasing, but trends in violent crime reported to police since the early 1990s reveal a mixed story. Homicide has decreased by nine percent since 1990 and armed robbery by one-third since 2001…”

    • http://101joyousthoughts.wordpress.com 101joyousthoughts

      To clarify my position, it’s a complex matter and lots of lies are circulated because of the passion involved. We need a clear body of FACTS.
      Personally I own several guns and do believe that there needs to be a limit on the # of rounds in the clip so some nutcase’s ability to do mass-murder is more limited.
      One thing is for sure, our country is the Most Homicidal in the developed world and that is shameful !

      • Nadzieja Batki

        And no we are not the Most Homicidal nation among the developed nations. You just don’t hear what goes on around the world. Don’t make yourself a bigger liar than what you already are.

      • http://itsootsme.wordpress.com sootsme

        Interesting that violence seems to rise in proportion to how far our society strays from having a sound moral basis that is pretty much common to us all. Seems to me that all our relatively new found “diversity” and “tolerance” are leading directly to huge amounts of stress, which manifests as inappropriate behavior. Lack of a cultural norm has apparently allowed many without proper training and supervision during their formative years to practice their own version of reality according to the voices in their heads, the rants of their drug and alcohol addled families, the latest gangsta rap lyrics, Harry Reid, etc. Basically, we now have the best country that money, greed, apathy, and ignorance can buy… Hell yes, we need state of the art weaponry… the wild west had nothing on us… at least out there, everyone knew the real rules. In our current situation, the prevailing rule is CYA by whatever means available. Bringing knives to gunfights has never been smart. This is one of the few constants in life. If America makes any claim at all to being a “free” country, our citizens must have at least a fighting chance. When seconds count and help is only minutes away, we must sometimes take matters into our own hands. This is what made America exceptional and frankly, what we need a lot more of, if we ever wish to recover from our current funk. Guns are but a small, but critical, aspect of the whole deal…

  • Roger Jack Young

    If a school employee had been armed maybe those young kids would still be alive. Think about it!

  • James Quimby

    Look at all the major gun massacres quoted by President Obama’s comments – The Aurora theater, Virginia Tech, Various schools, etc. There is one thing they all have in common – legal, privately owned guns were banned there. (Of course Obama left out one massacre that killed 13 soldiers – the Fort Hood shooting by the Muslim shrink – and of course off duty soldiers were banned from carrying guns too)

    Take the Aurora theater as an example. Colorado has a very high rate of personal gun carry permit holders. There were seven theaters showing the exact same Batman movie at midnight within a few mile radius of the killer’s home. Six of these theaters had no private signs restricting legal gun carry permit holders from bringing their legal guns with them to the movies. There was a theater closer to his home, there were larger theaters which would have given him more targets. Did the killer randomly choose his target? No! He choose the only one where there would be no law abiding carry permit holders.

    The best concise analysis to both define the problem and point out the best solution, I heard on the Dennis Prager radio show Monday, “The GOOD must be stronger than the EVIL!” The way to make the Good stronger can be debated – perhaps the South Carolina solution of a Resource Officer in every single school (an armed guard), or maybe having every properly firearms trained teacher, administrator, or even janitor, permitted to have a legal firearm secured for quick access at their school, etc.

    What is definitely NOT the way to make the Good stronger, is to further restrict law abiding citizens from having ready access to legal firearms. Disarming the Good only makes them weaker against the Evil.

    Jim Q

    • Andrew Roseweir

      JIM Q you are 100% right.

    • http://www.facebook.com/eugene.sevene Eugene Sevene-THE PATRIOT

      James I have said for years and still say the people of this country get more stupid every day. Most societies and most people learn from their mistakes. This is not true for the gun control idiots. Some people and societies will never learn. Let us look at prohibition. We outlawed alcohol and created a multimillion dollar a year, tax free business and increased the crime rate nation wide. Outlaw guns and the outlaws will all have guns, another tax free business and increase in crime. What the brain washed people don’t get is that gun control by the government has nothing to do with the death of those 20 innocent children. It has everything to do with control of the population. If you want to control a mass of people, control the amount of money they make and you control those masses. However along with that you have to remove any threat of resistance, [ disarm the people in question] only then will you have complete control.
      I am a Vietnam vet and when I jointed the Army I took an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. When I took my discharge I don’t recall anyone relieving me of that oath and I will fight to the death to protect our constitution and our freedoms. Yes James you are right. One does not strengthen ones army by down grading it. The bully down the block will not stop bullying you child until you step on the seine and portray power. Our leaders have learned nothing from history just as many of our people have not. Food for thought. If a person is going to commit murder they are going to commit murder gun or no gun. As tragic as Ct. was with the gun, would we rather this person have committed this crime against these children with a knife and a base ball bat. Out law guns and then out law kitchen knives, 2x4s, base ball bats, oh ye and don’t forget to remove all bricks and rocks, shovels,hockey sticks, and anything else you can think of that could be used to beat some child’s brains out, What did we do with the good common sense God gave us? Yes speaking of God why not put him and his good family values back in our lives instead letting everything that is wrong and immoral in our nation destroy us. Come on people, we have let government do our thinking long enough, let’s start thinking for ourselves and get back on the right path. All the school shootings only started after we threw God out of them. THINK ABOUT IT.

      • http://101joyousthoughts.wordpress.com 101joyousthoughts

        Eugene, a gun is a force-multiplier so when some nutcase is intent on murder, he can kill many more people faster than he could with a club or a knife.
        No doubt you read of the recent incident in (unarmed) Japan where some nut went on a rampage and knifed a bunch of people. Horrible deal, but as I understand it, they have all survived. If he’d have had a rapid-fire weapon do you think the outcome would have been the same?
        I appreciate your thoughts and concern, but we need to try to deal with facts, and the facts have been spun by all sides of this issue. I own several guns and my personal opinion is that a limit on the magazine capacity may be the best compromise our country has. Perfect? Hell no. But that’s what compromises are about.

      • JC

        101, Can I remind you of something?

        “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

        There is nothing to compromise.
        As long as criminals and soldiers have great firepower, so shall “We The People”.
        It’s called balance and it’s what keeps us free people.

      • James Quimby

        When Bob Costas made his recent anti-gun TV comments because it was ‘Sports Related’ with the football player’s murder/suicide, the same day a man on Staten Island murdered his wife with a baseball bat. A ‘Bat’ is sports related too – Costas should have suggested we outlaw bats out of the hands of a professional.

    • Leftnot

      Your comment should be up for awards, James. I tried to copy and post on facebook but it wouldn’t allow the entirety and I wasn’t going to plajiarize. Well said!

  • robert

    Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the world and it is not unusual for them to have 30 or more shootings in a single weekend. (source: main stream media)

  • http://www.facebook.com/eugene.sevene Eugene Sevene-THE PATRIOT

    Forget it Robert, the gun control freaks will only say “we all know the media lies” until the the main stream media says something that fits their frame of mind or thought process.

  • http://none Paul Bowers

    My name is Paul. I am a retired Police Officer and still work as Court Security in a local Town Justice Court. The 2nd amendment simply states a God given right to possess arms for protection of self and others also against an oppressive government. What is the problem with this? There are laws against stealing, assaults, murder, and other crimes. Owning a gun is not a crime it is a God given Right. Illegal use of a weapon is a Crime committed by a person or persons. I have the God given Right to defend myself against aggressors 2 legged 4 legged or Governmental. I shall not break the law in doing so because it is a God given right! Regulations such as any one with a history or record of being a criminal or Mentally ill can’t possess weapons are reasonable in my opinion. No other reason is acceptable.

  • ALL AMERICAN

    A 22 LR long gun is exactly the same thing as the 22 LR barrel of the mentioned, along with different clothes (I.e.: barrel heat sink/guard, flashy looking stock or upper assembly)…all of which do the same d a m n thing. If looks could kill, we’d have the Libs trying to ban all evil pirate teddy bears from the build a bear stores.
    Once again, the fools and useful idiots are at it again.

  • Leftnot

    Dr. Sarvis, I applaud the mental health professionals for their work in helping those in need to not do crazy crap. For those who are not helped and choose to do such acts there is a myraid of methods they choose. Gun violence being only one. It is deplorable that you and your ilk choose to promote the disarmament of law abiding civilians considering what history has shown us. It is, in fact, your GUN FREE ZONES that create opportunity for such crimes to be committed. What is the better of the two scenerios 1) bad guy killing good guys or 2) good guy killing a bad guy? Your utopea is unattainable. I hope you come to reality soon and join the less emotional, more informed, common sense portion of society.

    • http://101joyousthoughts.wordpress.com 101joyousthoughts

      If you are right, and you may be, and our country has passed the tipping point with about 300 million guns in circulation, then there is no realistic way to control the escalating violence other than to Pack. What a dismal, semi-paranoid way to live. I’m a gun owner and don’t want that to be the case. I also do not live in a big crime-ridden city (on purpose.)

  • James Quimby

    If you follow what is new in the world you will find that it will soon be impossible to ban guns – any criminal will soon have the ability to MAKE his own gun. There is something new that will soon be very widespread due to how valuable a tool it is – 3D PRINTERS that can reproduce ANYTHING. It has already produced plastic guns. This sort of gun has no serial number and is a disposable weapon. It is not very durable and repeated firing will destroy it, but is a good one time use weapon that will appeal to criminals. Being plastic it will also go through metal detectors. For more durability, I have read where these 3D Printers can use titanium powder and have been used to produce very light weight race car suspension parts – surely they can make a gun too.

    I have already seen one of the various law and order type TV shows that found trace amounts of plastic on the bullets that killed someone and used this plastic gun idea. How can you control guns in ten years when 3D Printing is commonplace?

    What has helped the USA stop major wars and keep the world safer from tyrants? The USA military has been the strongest in the world. That has made petty tyrants afraid to mess with us. One of the best examples it the President Carter handling of the Iranian Hostage Crisis – very weak. The day Ronald Reagan was sworn in those cowardly bullies released the 44 hostages. They knew the USA military was about to come down on them full force. Peace through Strength WORKS.

    The same thing applies to individuals “God made men, but Samuel Colt made them EQUAL!” Peace through Strength means that the Good Guys MUST be Stronger than the Evil Guys. We must find ways to strengthen the Good Guys against the Evil Guys that will always exist. For school shootings, it should be letting the Bad Guys know that there are always armed protectors in the school – the school people do not have to wait for the police to show up to fight back. Pay a premium to teachers who are willing to do regular training, like police do, and have carry permits to either carry in school or at least have a locked safe at their desk with a weapon in it. All the gun banning laws do is weaken the Good Guys.

  • http://PersonalLiberty Sid Coy

    Level headed comments for the most part about a very emotional subject. Please take a few hours to connect with “The 5000 Year Leap” . We as a nation have moved so far from what our founders laid out for us that it is really no wonder we are confused about gun regulations. The Founders saw a public office holder getting small compensation for the ‘HONOR’ of holding that office. Now the elected see themselves as omnipotent and the maker of regulations to solve all problems. Has government really done anything, anything correctly?
    God, religion, honor, integrity, honesty and the natural law of right and wrong were very strong influences in the making of the constitution and we as a political body have failed in every way to follow their intent.
    Natural Law of right and wrong will guide one in the handling of a gun. The God given right to possess and cary a gun thereby gives the gun carrier the duty to learn the responsibility
    of carrying and pass that responsibility to offspring and those he/she mentors
    Please keep up the intelligent discourse and investigate those for whom you vote. Investigate those who count the vote.
    Do an indepth investigation of the history of Harry Reid, the Senate Majority leader. He is a very crooked elected official.

  • Vicki

    Ran across this interisting bit of information today
    http://www.teaparty.org/guns-out-of-stock-at-wal-mart-17464/
    “Wal-Mart entered into an agreement in 2008 with the Mayors Against Illegal Guns that included video recording of purchases and the use of databases to identify people who have bought guns recovered in crimes.”

    Just another way to get around that pesky 4th amendment to get at the 2nd.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Doc Sarvis: A LOT more(deaths/massacres) are stopped by mental health professionals…
    Want to stop the violence? Here is the answer:

    Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

    Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

    Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

    Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

    Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

    Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

    Jarred Viktor, age 15, stabbed his grandmother 61 times after 5 days on Paxil.

    Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

    Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

    A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

    Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

    A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

    Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

    TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

    Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

    James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

    Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

    Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

    Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

    Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

    Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

    Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

    Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

    Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

    Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

    Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

    Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

    Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,

    (Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)

    Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

    Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

    Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

    Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

    A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

    Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

    Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

    Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

    Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

    Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

    Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school. -Thanks to Watcher Tom for this list!

    You were saying, Mr. Sarvis?

    _______

    • NativeBlood

      Speaking of mental health professionals: The Fort Hood shooting was a shooting that took place on November 5, 2009, at Fort Hood, the most populous U.S. military installation in the world, located just outside Killeen, Texas. In the course of the shooting, a single gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others. It is the worst shooting ever to take place on an American military base.

      The sole suspect is Nidal Malik Hasan, a U.S. Army Major serving as a psychiatrist. He was shot and taken into custody by Department of the Army Civilian Police officers, and is now paralyzed from the waist down. Hasan has been charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder under the Uniform Code of Military Justice; he may face additional charges at court-martial.
      Not a sick kid, just a sick individual alltogether!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        He could have been dipping into his inventory, for all we know.

    • Oldshooter

      You are making a freshman level error with your assumptions about cause and effect.
      First off: the fact that some, even if it was a large percentage, of people on SSRI’s share a characteristic (for example commit suicide), it doesn’t mean the drugs caused that behavior. This is especially true for suicidal behavior simply because depressed people are the most likely to kill themselves (with or without killing others too) and they generally only give SSRIs to depressed people. So if I am already more likely to kill myself because I’m depressed, and I take medication to control my depression, and it doesn’t work, (say I don’t take it properly, or I stop too soon, or I start too late, or whatever) and I kill myself, it most likely isn’t because I’m taking SSRIs, it’s probably because I was suicidally depressed in the first place. It’s like the stupidity over the anti-inflamatory drug VIOXX. The drug is given to help reduce systemic inflammation, which in itself is a risk factor for heart attacks. So if I’m taking VIOXX to reduce my risk factors for heart disease, and I die of a heart attack anyway, it is really much more likely that it was my risk factors (that got me on VIOXX in the first place) rather than the drug, that were the primary cause of my death.

      Secondly, even if the drug raised the probability of committing a crime (even a heinous one like mass murder), would it be reasonable to ban it? Consider: if there are about 2 million people on some form of SSRI (I think the number is actually a good deal higher at present), and 20 of them commit heinous crimes, do you really think it is morally reasonable to deny the other 1,999,980 effective treatment for their depression? Would it be reasonable to institutionalize the 3-4 million or so psychotics in the country, who are only able to lead independent lives because of modern antipsychotic medication, because a few psychotics on one of those medications committed a crime while on their medication? You need to remember what it was like before we had modern antipsychotics. And yes, I know Dr. Piazza of Front Sight Institute agrees with what you said earlier, but mucj as I like him, he’s wrong for the same reasons you are, and with his training, he ought to know better.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Matt said: December 17, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    Over 13 people shot in Chicago this weekend, 15 last weekend. You cannot carry a gun in Chicago. You cannot have a concealed weapons permit in Illinois. So how is gun control working out for the people in Chicago? As always, guns are not the issue. People are. New york and Chicago have some of the toughest gun laws. Look at the murder rate in those states. Texas has probably the easiest gun laws and they have much less of these kind of shootings. A disarmed society is a society in bondage to a corrupt government; some nations are living proof. Swiss citizens all own guns, and are trained in their use. Result? No wars, and a low crime rate. I rest my case.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dan.mancuso.56 Dan Mancuso

    Years ago when I was still a member of the NRA and recieved their ‘American Rifleman’ magazine, monthly, one of my favorite columns was the one where they listed all the times people defended themselves WITH GUNS, from criminals. It happens alot, and a whole lot more than liberals and the lefty liberal MSM lets on.

    • Oldshooter

      Dan, I agree with you in general. However, your comment that the “Armed Citizen” column in the NRA’s “American Rifleman” reported ALL the times someone defended themselves with a gun, is a little misleading. In fact, due to space considerations, the column only carries a small sampling of those incidents that were actually covered by the media during the month or so before the magazine comes out. All the research (even the DOJ’s) indicates that the vast majority of such incidents are not reported by the media, and a large percentage are probably not even reported to the police (unless someone was actually shot – only a small percentage of the cases). Thus, while the “Armed Citizen” column is a good sampling of the TYPE of defensive gun use incidents that are occurring, it should not be thought of as representative of the actual NUMBER of such incidents that are occurring.

      • http://www.facebook.com/dan.mancuso.56 Dan Mancuso

        I stand corrected Oldshooter, I mispoke when I said ” …they listed all the times people defended themselves with guns…”. My intent was to show a reliable source outside the MSM where people practicing their 2nd Ammendment rights, correctly, in defending themselves and others, and how often it actually occurs, in contrast to the MSM’s lies and sins of ommission.

  • http://timewarner Annie Ironside

    I believe in the 2ad amendment, and the constitution; When a president is sworm in and has his hand on the Bible, these words are repeated ” do you swear to protect and perserve the constitution of the United States”. The goverment has no right to deny our constitutional right. How may drunk drivers kill people every year, we do not take cars off the road, are go back to making alcohol illegal. I lost a son to a vehicle accident, so I know the loss of a child, we do not make cars illegal.
    Another problem I have withall this B.S. with gun control, I don not know the exact satistics, but it is obvious that most of the shootings in the last six moths have had a phycotic break, severe abuse be it physical, mental or sexual, Drugs are involved in some cases, and wheather they are perscription or not they act differently on different people. I have a friend who lived in the path of Hurricame Rita and was in their apartment and it took three weeks to get the electricity back on. One night someone tired to break in his window, so a friend gave him a hand gun just to be on the safe side. About three in the morning he head the front door get kicked in, he grabbed the 9m hand gun and crawled into the hall, “Who are you and what do you want”, quote “were going to take you [expletive deleted] and kill you”, they fired three shots, He fired half of the clip, one went down and theother ran my friend went ofver nd kicekd the gun out of his hand checked his pulse, he was dead at the scene, He called 911 told them what had happened and they came and investigated and determined it was self defense. He hit the other one cause there was an outline of the blood spray. My friend would be dead if not for the right to bear arms. There is a civil war coming and none of you have any idea how ugly it is going to get. keep you wapons.

  • http://Don'thaveone. Terry Morgan

    There are many good comments posted and some that are just not the real world. James Quimby’s remarks are especially appreciated, as are those by WTS/JAY and Oldshooter.. Everywhere strict gun control has been tried, the result has been the opposite from what the politically correct bleeding hearts and do-gooders would have us believe. I often think many of them have been brainwashed, or at least hoodwinked by more sinister elements. Australia has arguably the strictest gun control in the supposedly free world, but violent crimes have gone up big time ever since. Switzerland has the lowest incidence of gun crimes, yet every able-bodied citizen is a member of their national militia and is required to have his weapon at home and ready for immediate use. Those intent on mass murder find other ways. The worst school attack in US history was in 1927. I can’t recall how many adults and children were killed, but it was more than Sandy Hook. The weapon? Dynamite. Would Timothy McVey have been deterred by gun control? I didn’t hear a major push for a total nationwide ban on the use of high explosives after he bombed the Federal Building. Should we ban airplanes, since they brought down the World Trade Center towers? There was a school attack in China not too long ago, where knives or swords were used. Even if guns were banned, as long as we have a completely porous border with Mexico, criminals, gangs, and drug smugglers will still have unlimited access to just about every type of firearm imaginable. Does anyone recall seeing the picture not too long ago of the huge caches of weapons found in the southern Arizona desert, which probably represented the barest fraction of the total of illegal importation?
    Our society and our culture have changed. I grew up mainly from the late 1930′s to the late 1940′s in a state capital. He liked to hunt game birds, with occasional attention to a jackrabbit or coyote. A shotgun and a .22 rifle stood in soft cases in the corner of his closet. The shells and cartridges were on the closet shelf. He taught me to shoot and hunt as soon as I was deemed old enough, and he thoroughly schooled me in gun safety. It never ever occurred to me that I should touch those guns without both permission and supervision. The father of a neighborhood playmate slept with a revolver under his pillow. I think it was likely very unnecessary in those days, as during the 19 years I lived at home, the crime rate for our neighborhood was zero. People used to ride around in convertibles with top down night or day in the summer time anywhere in down without fear of being robbed or car-jacked. One afternoon my playmate took several of us kids of grade school age up to the bedroom, lifted the pillow, and showed us the revolver. No one touched it nor would have ever dared to do so. Think of the “B” westerns and gangster movies of those years. Some of the villains were shot, even killed, but how often did the audience see any blood? Once in a while there might be a beheading in a costume epic, but all you saw was the shadow of the headsman’s ax on the wall. The actual stroke wasn’t seen, let alone the severed member shown rolling across the screen covered with gore. There was always a moral to the story. There were the good guys and the bad guys. The good guys always won. Crime didn’t pay. Evil was punished. There were no anti-heros. Black was black, and white was white.
    Our young people today have been desensitized to violence, and there is no moral grounding. Graphic depiction is every where. TV. The movies. The internet. I think too often we see young people today with an inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality. We played cowboys & Indians and cops & robbers all the time. We had cap guns in many different configurations, and we “shot” each other and imaginary villains regularly. But we never had any trouble telling the difference between play and reality. And then we outgrew the childhood activities by high school age. Out of a class of about 400, only two things happened in four years. One kid was sent to reform school for burglary (he was unarmed). He did reform and became a good citizen The big scandal was when the student body president and senior class president were removed from office for having a spiked Coke back stage at a class play. There were a few kids who sneaked a cigaret now and then, but there was no drug problem at all. Pretty tame by today’s standards.
    Then there is the issue of mental illness. The idea that every single mentally ill person should be free to roam at large in the community and should be free to decide whether or not to take their medication only begets endless trouble, regardless of the ACLU’s wrong-headed notions. Society, the public, must protected. There are a lot of individuals at large today who would have been in mental hospitals for their own protection and the protection of society a couple of generations ago.
    Can we turn things around ? I don’t know. It may already be too late. Right now the biggest mistake we could make is to prevent honest, law-abiding citizens from protecting themselves and their families

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