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Trying To Secede? Don’t Waste Your Time

November 30, 2012 by  

Trying To Secede? Don’t Waste Your Time
PHOTOS.COM

I don’t know who thought of the scheme that allows citizens to petition the Federal government to allow their State to withdraw from the Union. But whoever it was sure came up with a dandy way to get a lot of good patriots spinning their wheels, wasting their time and pouring a bunch of money down the drain.

On the surface, the pitch sounds pretty appealing. Anyone who can get 150 signatures on a petition can put it on the White House website We the People. The website promises: “If a petition gets enough support, White House staff will review it, ensure it’s sent to the appropriate policy experts, and issue an official response.” What qualifies as “enough support”? A minimum of 25,000 signatures.

Thus far, petitions to allow a State to secede from the union have come from all 50 States. Texas is leading the tally, with 116,070 signatures submitted the last time I checked. But six other States have also passed the 25,000 test: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina and Tennessee.

As far as I can determine, the White House hasn’t issued an “official response” to any of them. As of this writing, there are 146 petitions on the website. Some 66 of them are requests for secession. (Yes, some lucky States have more than one.) And while the White House says it has responded to 82 petitions, none of the secession ones have made the list. It seems there’s a little avoidance going on.

It’s hard to quarrel with some of the assertions made in the various petitions. Consider this from the one from Texas:

“Given that the State of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect its citizens’ standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government.”

Of course, not everyone in Texas wants to be part of the secession movement. A group from El Paso, Texas, has submitted a petition that would allow the city to secede from the State. “El Paso is tired of being a second-class city within Texas,” the petition declares.

Eager to get in their 2 cents’ worth, some residents of Houston have submitted a petition stating that secession-minded Texans “are mentally deficient.” This group is asking for “more education in our state to eradicate their disease.”

Hmmm, are things about to get nasty in the Lone Star State?

Since anyone can submit a petition for just about anything, some pretty weird things can get posted. One petition called on President Barack Obama to “do the Hokey Pokey on national television.” That one got removed before it could garner anywhere near 25,000 signatures.

One that achieved the required minimum asks to “Deport Everyone That Signed A Petition To Withdraw Their State From The United States Of America.” As someone remarked, that sounds sort of like kicking a prisoner out of jail for trying to escape, doesn’t it?

Another petition demands that States be required to pay their portion of the national debt before being allowed to secede. Since neither the States nor individual taxpayers are legally liable for money the Federal government has borrowed, it’s hard to see how this one could be implemented. No matter; the Federal government already has plans to extract as much money as possible from any American who wants to surrender his citizenship.

Since many signatures are just a first name and initial, there is no way to confirm their validity — or even that they are residents of the States whose petition they signed.

But please don’t misunderstand me: I’m not going to argue that the secession petitions need more oversight. I don’t believe there is any way to make them more practical or to increase their effectiveness. Nor do I dismiss them as just a mildly amusing distraction.

No, I think this petition movement is actually hurting the cause of liberty. It’s taking time and money away from efforts that could make a difference and channeling them into something that is simply a dangerous waste of both.

Does anyone anywhere really believe that petitions on a White House website will achieve anything positive in the battle for liberty? C’mon, folks. Those of us who believe in limited government — who want to see government spending reduced, not taxes increased — know we’ve got some mighty battles in front of us. Let’s focus our efforts where they have some chance of affecting policy, not fritter them away on meaningless efforts.

Yes, I know that the results of the last elections were somewhat discouraging. But this November wasn’t the most depressing election of my lifetime. That watershed event occurred 48 years ago, when Lyndon Baines Johnson crushed Barry Goldwater by a far bigger margin than when Obama beat Mitt Romney.

The nomination of Goldwater at the Cow Palace in San Francisco was an incredibly symbolic event. Conservatives had wrested control of the Republican Party from the East Coast establishment — the so-called Rockefeller Republicans who had controlled it for decades.

We’d done it by going outside of traditional party channels. Our weapons weren’t ballots, at least at the beginning. No, they were alternative methods of communications: films and filmstrips, meetings in living rooms, and small paperbound books that we distributed by the millions. Remember A Choice Not An Echo or None Dare Call It Treason? Some of you probably still have copies stuck in a box in a corner of your basement or garage.

Remember, these were the first elections following the assassination of John F. Kennedy. In those emotion-filled days, it’s not surprising that the Democrats won the White House in a landslide, along with big majorities in the House and Senate.

For a conservative, it was disheartening to see what followed: massive new social programs as LBJ tried to build what he called the Great Society, plus huge increases our military presence in Vietnam. The results led to some of the most bitter divisions and nastiest confrontations this country has ever seen.

But in time, the pendulum started swinging back. Conservative defeats in the 1960s and ’70s led to some victories in the ’80s and ’90s. Granted, all we’ve been able to do so far is slow the growth of government; we haven’t gotten strong enough to reduce the size and power of the Federal behemoth.

But if we abandon the battlefield, we never will. If there were ever a time to stay the course and even redouble our efforts, this is it. Let’s pick some battles where we can expect a sizable number of our fellow citizens to be on our side — not ones that will drive them even farther away from us.

More on this in future columns. In the meantime, stay the course. And keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • Buster the Anatolian

    While I am sure a few states petitions are absolutely serious the majority of them are protests against the ever larger more intrusive and controlling federal government we have to deal with.

    • ROGER W

      FOR THOSE WHO WANT SECESSION LIKE MYSELF… IMAGINE NOT PAYING ANY FEDERAL INCOME TAXES??? IT IS LIKE A UTOPIA…BUSINESSES WOULD NOT PAY ANY FEDERAL TAX EITHER… THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD GO BROKE IN A WEEK IF JUST 5 STATES LEAVE THE UNION… THE STATES WOULD NEED BIGGER BORDER PATROLS INDIVIDUALLY BUT I AM SURE THE ILLEGAL ALIENS WOULD MAKE GOOD SOLDIERS IN EXCHANGE FOR CITIZENSHIP … GATHER WEAPONS AND AMMO MEANWHILE… GUN SALES ARE AT A RECORD LEVEL…

      • http://davidsfloors.com Granpa David

        ” The Federal Governrment would go broke. ” ??? I guess at 16 trillion it could go broker. In fact it will go broker.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Your dream will turn into a nightmare of reality.

      • DaveH

        The Federal Government has been broke for a long time, Roger, and it hasn’t stopped them yet. As long as they have the Federal Reserve to print counterfeit money, and buy the Federal Government’s debt, the Federal Government can just keep on trucking. That is, at least until they have used up the cash accounts of Mom and Pop and their fixed incomes.

      • Mary

        United we stand, divided we fall. The first huge natural disaster and all would be screaming for the federal gov. to help. YOU know not what you wish for. Your taxes do not just go to help the unfortunate, as many of the right wingers seem to concentrate on, the trillions just spent on two wars was to protect your rear end also. Defense is a huge chunk of our taxes. Consider what we pay individually, it is very little when you think about the protection we all have. We are not talking about an old fashion army with machine guns, we are talking nuclear weapons, planes, nuclear submarines and drones. Let’s see those states on their own come up with that kind of protection for themselves. Get real! People need to stop complaining and stop listening to the doom and gloom phrophecy the right wing thrives on. If you did not lose your freedom, and no one did, during Obama’s first term, you can expect to keep it during his second. The only evil in him is the made up lies coming from ignorance on the right. Stop believing the crap and turn off the likes of Limbaugh and Fox News. They all have a political agenda.
        What is the big deal about raising taxes on the wealthy anyway? It has been done dozens of times by past Presidents and the country has not gone to the dark side. Obama just wants to raise them to the level they were when Clinton was President. We are talking a couple of percents. They get a boat load of tax breaks anyway so it will not hurt them. Talk about corporate welfare that they conveniently ignore when they are discussing taking away from social. security and Medicare. The middle class should be so lucky.

      • Vigilant

        Anton Scalia, 2006: “I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court,” Scalia wrote. “To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede.”

      • Ron Bedell

        Good points. I agree, Roger. I live in Florida. And Chip brings out good points but succession is the only way to go, now. The federal government is completely out of control. And it doesn’t matter which party occupies Congress or the White House or even the Supreme Court. They all favor the New World Order. Succession is the ONLY answer, now. I was born in 1949 and I have never seen the federal government get any better. It just gets worse and worse in Washington D.C. The federal government is an out of control monster. We must stop feeding the monster. Succession is a great way to do that.

      • James Andrews

        Yo’re right about that!

      • eddie47d

        You are correct Vigilant as Deerinwater reiterated below at 9:26 am.

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.a.deal David A Deal

        Many of the strongest movements for secession came from Red States that actually take in more Federal funds than they pay out which belies your fiscal arguement. All military bases in a State to secede would cease to exist, it’s citizens would be required to give up their passports and create their own new ones. Travel for them into the US would be restricted. And trade would be cut off. How would it affect Texas if the Pipeline of oiul from other States was ended. Their refineries would be replaced by new ones elsewhere and they would lose much of their income. Also as far as the Texas standard of living, it has the highest level of uninsured citizens in any State and with NO military, tanks, planes, missles, etc they could easily be come an annex of Mexico.

      • Cheerio

        Mary Mary quite contrary…..???
        We are safe from whom?

      • sucession minded

        I like the idea and think that Texas is more than capable of fending for itself. Once the proper reforms were made those who just want to live off the government, finding out that they will not be able to do that in Texas, they will move and probably go to California. I think the only hope is to get 17 states not cast votes in the electoral college. That would mean a Republican President and a Democratic Vice President. Not sure who to contact in Texas to stop them from voting.

      • Jerry G

        The issue of these people signing these petitions is interesting to me. Part of me wants to be part of the protest and sign, and the other side of me understands the possible newly expanded monitoring of the Government and to be cautious. As Chip Wood points out here there were points in our history like the election of LBJ and his actions that create such a ripple effect it changes things in a big way for a long time. I would add the Woodrow Wilson era when we started the Federal Reserve and the changes in the Constitution pushed forward by the Progressives like the Senators elected independently which turned our Republic into more of a democracy mob. States used to hold more power and that was a major shift in power to Central Planning. But one could argue Lincoln was the beginning of the shift to Central Planning. I hate the direction of this Country and how most of the sheeple really don’t educate themselves to what is happening or maybe I should give up my feelings of Liberty and feel assured the Government will always be there to make my life complete like the majority does, not likely. What is really bad about this country is I would be gone to someplace like Chile or ??? just to set anchor for my son if needed but our very imposing laws of leaving and the real cost of doing that(getting a foreign passport) makes it much more difficult to leave the USA than say the UK or France. Even banking outside our boarders has become difficult for expats so succession becomes a more interesting option.

      • http://twitter.com/TexomaPatriot freePatriot (@TexomaPatriot)

        @Mary. If tax increases to Clinton era are not a big deal then I would accept those tax increases as long as the federal spending for 2013 also is capped at the level of 1998. I bet the same people that think the Clinton tax level is good would say that the Clinton spending level is bad. Please get real.

      • Lacy taylor

        What we actually need is a coup. Our democracy is a failure

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          We are not, nor have we ever been a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. In a Republic, the sovereignty resides with the people themselves. In a Republic, one may act on his own or through his representatives when solving a problem. The people have no obligation to the government; instead, the government is a servant of the people, and obliged to its owner – “We the People”. Many politicians have lost sight of that fact.

          A Constitutional Republic has similarities to democracy in that it uses democratic processes to elect representatives, etc. The difference is that a Constitutional Republic has a Constitution is the blueprint for, and defines thelimits the powers of the government. It creates the government structure; puts checks on its power and balances power between the different branches.

          Each state has its own government also: Article IV Section 4 of the Constitution states: “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion . . . .

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        Which ever state can pull this off is the state I am moving too.

      • DaveH

        Mary says — “United we stand, divided we fall. The first huge natural disaster and all would be screaming for the federal gov. to help. YOU know not what you wish for. Your taxes do not just go to help the unfortunate, as many of the right wingers seem to concentrate on, the trillions just spent on two wars was to protect your rear end also”.
        United behind who, Mary? I say you should unite with us.
        We’ll be screaming for help from the Government? Isn’t that just a bit presumptuous of you, Mary?
        We do not know what we wish for, Mary? I know what I wish for — Freedom — Freedom from Progressives like yourself who think they know what’s best for the rest of us and who think our wallets are their’s to pillage.
        Trillions were spent to protect our rear ends? From what, Mary — The enemies that our Bankers and Military Industrial Complex are making for us while they fatten their coffers?
        Anybody, who thinks they are fighting for our Freedom, needs to get educated. Start here:
        http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

        • Smilee

          Davy

          You better leave the country then as what you seek is not and will not be available to you here. Your wishing for the impossible but then you see everything through rose colored glasses which distorts all you see.

      • Dan W

        I must agree with you Roger W. It is my belief that my state, Texas, will have to secede sooner or later, because the U.S. Federal government is bankrupt. The only way out for them now to pay off their creditors is to confiscate all of the citizenry’s assets including land and mineral rights as payment for the note. The bill is coming due soon and it won’t be pretty.

      • Vicki

        Mary says:
        “United we stand, divided we fall.”

        United under the yoke of slavery is not likely a better option then divided and free.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

      The secession petitions are because this administration (and some previous) are not following our legitimate government. They have gone so far off base with *corruption, treason, murders, etc; and not one “representative” including Ron Paul, has called for their arrest. Neither has any “law enforcement” agency whose duties are to do exactly that (think SS, FBI) instead of creating “terrorists” to prove that this corruption must continue.
      *The corruption is pretty much evident for any who will look so I will not bother to list them, plus it would take pages.
      Treason: Fast and Furious – Both Holder and Obama knew and did a press release about it in early April 2009. Obama fought for funding for it in March 2009. Holder, along with Janet Napolitano, did a speech in Mexico extolling its “virtues and successes”, and with plnas of expansions and all the agencies involced at the April 2009 Arms Trafficking Convention. I sent all of this information to the committee that was supposedly getting to the bottom of when they knew so I know personally that they have the information of when they knew, that it was a flippin 2009 Press RELEASE with David Ogden, H. Clinton, Holder, J. Napolitiano, etc all there in the videos.
      F & F is Treason for arming known arms traffickers for a foreign nation that were used to commit mass murder in that nation, and also murder of citizen(s) here in the USA – how many here has not been released but we do know they have been found at 47 plus crime scenes but the info about them has not been released.
      Obama, Panetta, Dempsey “giving authority over the USA to the UN – TREASON – in a letter to Boehner (making him a traitor also and prosecutable), and to the senate (making all who were there TRAITORS under OUR laws and prosecutable).
      Giving the Un “authority” over the United States Military is also treason on Obama, Panetta, Dempsey, and all who know about it and done nothing.
      Benghazi – another arms deal with a foreign nation used against American citizens.
      Arming with military grade armaments and finanacially supporting known Terrorist groups (the same groups who supposedly had part in the Twin Towers) who work for foreign nations AGAINST the USA.
      Knowing that the CIA is training and working with terroists world wide is treason on all involveds part.
      All the listed above qualify as TREASON, mass murder, murder and various other civil and criminal offenses.

      We want our USA under our legitimate government. Not under UN control by UN thugs that were placed over the years into the federal government. Since we want arrests and prosecutions of ALL who had ANY part, even if just standing back and letting it happen, because they took an Oath to get into the office / position they currently occupy to Support and Defend that they are REQUIRED to keep that position.

      Clause 2 of Article VI of the ORIGINAL Constitution:

      “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”

      The first law statute of the United States of America, enacted in the first session of the First Congress on 1 June 1789, was Statute 1, Chapter 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution.
      The wording of the Presidential Oath was established in the Constitution in Article II, Section 1, Clause 10.

      The requirement for all Federal and State Civil officers to give their solemn and binding Oath is established in Article VI, Section 1, Clause 4.

      They are BOUND by their Oath to support the Constitution, and should they abrogate their Oath by their acts or inaction, are subject to charges of impeachment and censure.

      Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.

      Bound: “Being under legal or moral obligation; To constitute the boundary or limit of; To set a limit to; confine”.

      Require, Requirement, Required: “to claim or ask for by right and authority; Mandated under a law or by an authoritative entity. That which is required; a thing demanded or obligatory; something demanded or imposed as an obligation.”

      “Under the American Constitution a new structure of government was established on a much higher plane than either the parliamentary system or the confederation of states. It was a people’s constitutional republic, where a certain amount of power was delegated to the states and a certain amount was delegated to the national government. There was a small dimension of power which they shared jointly. All other power was retained by the people. It is the delegation by the people of certain powers to the states and certain powers to the national government which we call ‘dual federalism.’” W. Cleon Skousen, “The Making of America”

      “A constitution is not the act of a government, but of a people constituting a government; and government without a constitution is power without a right. All power exercised over a nation, must have some beginning. It must be either delegated, or assumed. There are not other sources. All delegated power is trust, and all assumed power is usurpation. Time does not alter the nature and quality of either.” Thomas Paine

      “God provided that in this land of liberty, our political allegiance shall run not to individuals, that is, to government officials, no matter how great or how small they may be. Under His plan our allegiance and the only allegiance we owe as citizens or denizens of the United States, runs to our inspired Constitution which God himself set up. So runs the oath of office of those who participate in government. A certain loyalty we do owe to the office which a man holds, but even here we owe just by reason of our citizenship, no loyalty to the man himself. In other countries it is to the individual that allegiance runs. This principle of allegiance to the Constitution is basic to our freedom. It is one of the great principles that distinguishes this “land of liberty” from other countries”. J. Reuben Clark

      “The way to have good and safe government, is not to trust it all to one, but to divide it among the many, distributing to every one exactly the functions he is competent to.
      Let the national government be entrusted with the defense of the nation, and its foreign and federal relations; the State governments with the civil rights, law, police, and administration of what concerns the State generally; the counties with the local concerns of the counties, and each ward direct the interests within itself. It is by dividing and subdividing these republics from the great national one down through all its subordinations, until it ends in the administration of every man’s farm by himself; by placing under every one what his own eye may superintend, that all will be done for the best.
      What has destroyed liberty and the rights of man in every government which has ever existed under the sun? The generalizing and concentrating all cares and powers into one body.” Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph C. Cabell

      “It is often asserted that the world has made a great deal of progress since 1776, that we have had new thoughts and new experiences which have given us a great advance over the people of that day, and that we may therefore very well discard their conclusions for something more modern. But that reasoning cannot be applied to this great charter.

      If all men are created equal, that is final.
      If they are endowed with inalienable rights, that is final.
      If governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, that is final.

      No advance, no progress can be made beyond these propositions.
      If anyone wishes to deny their truth or their soundness, the only direction in which he can proceed historically is not forward, but backward toward the time when there was no equality, no rights of the individual, no rule of the people. Those who wish to proceed in that direction cannot lay claim to progress. They are reactionary. Their ideas are not more modern, but more ancient, than those of the Revolutionary fathers.” Calvin Coolidge, 30th US President

      So we want the USA under our legitimate government, the Constitution of the United States of America. Since there is so much corruption and treason in the adminstration it is time to create a new adminstration who will follow OUR legitimate government. In a nuetral poll – 92% of American citizens said this country was going the wrong way. 3% was fine with it as it is, the rest were “unsure”.

      Look at how many went ahead and signed those peititions, knowing that it put their names in Obama’s “possible” assassination list, and onto their “terrorist” watch list that took actual foreign terrorists off (including those supposedly involved in 9/11) while adding American citizens who “dare” speak out against this corruption on it.

      Why are you not discussing the treasons committed? Why are YOU not calling for arrests and prosecutions?

      • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

        Well stated KB. The missing ingredient here is finding a leader with the influence to take this action forward. A ldr. that American patriots would follow. The likes of Col. West maybe? Or Col. Shaffer or North?? Someone that has the backing of the military and the respect of the citizenry. Once that happens, there is enough anger amongst those real Americans to march on the WH. demanding that charges be filed and arrests made. And it must be done soon as the country is losing all rights of Free Speech fast!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        If the Constitution and the people were ignored all these years you believe you will be listened to now? What convincing argument will you be able to give?

      • Herbert Moore

        Thank you, KB.

      • http://facebook doug crawford

        very good – this is great – do we have political type to hold up is there some way we the people arrest these bums

      • Robert Vann Wilson

        sounds great to me we seceded from england

      • DaveH

        KB says — “not one “representative” including Ron Paul, has called for their arrest”.
        That’s because Ron Paul knows it would be like asking the Crips to turn over their Leaders to the Government.

      • Texas Ride

        Kansas,

        EXACTLY! There are no “checks and balances” to the power of the Feds.
        That power is growing immensely by the day. There is no Rule of Law! There is only obamalaw! All of government stands paralyzed and there is no resistence. Who will take action….

      • Mary

        What ???? Obama’s Assassination List? you are really jumping off the deep end. The same was said about Clinton during the Whitewater fiasco, by the fools on the right Look back and see for yourself. All were a bunch of lies and the reason nothing is done is THEY ARE LIES AND NO PROOF CAN BE FOUND TO SUSTANTIATE THESE CONSPIRACIES. The CIA. FBI and other intelligence agencies are involved in many things and one is covert operations that have always been a part of keeping this country safe. Why do people think they have the right to know classified information? They do not. Don’t you find it a bit odd that only conspiracies seem to blow up to these proportions when the Democrats are in office?. There has never been anything in the Democratic Administrations as conspiratory as the Bush, Cheney, Rusmsfeld charade that got us into Iraq, where thousands of Americans were killed, not just four. If that did not destroy America, then nothing can. Where were the almighty, right winger, tea party vigilante, groups marching on Washington screaming to take back “their country”then? No where to be seen or heard, only when a Black man became President. We all know what thay says about these people.

      • Cheerio

        Mary – funny libs didn’t uphold and support Alan Keyes when he ran for president? He is educated, liberty minded and black? Where were you guys???

      • LANCE TROUPE

        So intelligently put Mr. Kansas Bright, I concur , every thing you wrote is the way we should all feel. With good people like you who seem to know whats really going on thank you fore you commitment and telling it like it is.
        Also I would like to tell Pam S. That she Is also wright in the fact that we do have the right to secede. However that does not mean we will, we are all trying to make a point that we are not standing with this President and we want action Now! Or secession could be an alternative for some states. We are all disgusted with how our government has run amuck , but now, more than ever we need to stick together. We need to Impeach This Impostor and Back Stabbing President who is not an American.

      • david imlay

        I agree to this being well stated. You referred to a re-establishment of a governing body as is stated in the original Declaration of Independence, but here is the rub. Education of the people must be implemented, and study of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence has been darn near literally taken out of the curriculum of most schools, except the colleges and universities, somewhat.

        Re-education of the people must be reinstated and the people must learn the lawful methods of bringing this corruption back under control. I mention lawful because legal is the interpretation of the lawful wording.

        Once you allow ANY legalization of any law then you allow the changing of the law as it is written in the first place. Interpretation inserts into the law personal feelings and changes the law, as it was written. Even if the law is written vaguely then it MUST be enforced vaguely. Any specification through interpretation brings things to the table that were not written into it from the first. This is considered as taking the consideration of the parties out of the equation of the law and allowing outsiders of that law or contract to set the terms and not signing to it. Courtroom judges are now allowing the interpretation to change the law from the bench of which they have no authority. These judges are also bringing enforcement into the changes they have made. That is called legislating from the bench. A judge was never given that authority.

        Even a well informed jury could only nullify laws on the books and force those laws to be reviewed by the legislators and be corrected or repealed. Nullification of laws literally takes the law and makes it unenforceable until it is changed or abolished.

        Most people are uneducated when it comes to the definitions of lawful and legal. There is a huge difference in those definitions. Lawful is anything written down and recorded, whether it is specific or not. Legal is the interpretation of what is written and recorded. Do you have a right to determine what is legal? Not in my book, as the legal profession claims to have the authority to determine that, and they do their best to enforce that too.

        How many of the American people are a signed member of the legal profession? Not that many. So, if you are not signed up and a paid member of that society, do you have a right to say anything about what goes on in that society? NO! That society is a closed society and is under contract.

        Laws, statutes, ordinances, and the like are all contracts. Are you directly signed into that contract? More than likely not. Oh you have representation, Did you vote for that representative? If you did not, then is that person your representative? Only if you accept them as such and acquiesce to their authority. You can deny acquiescence if you rebel. If you do not rebel and deny it, then you are FORCED to accept it. That is NOT what this country was built on. If you are not signed directly to a law, are you bound by it? Only if you acquiesce it and follow it.

        Both KB and the author of this editorial brought up the Constitution. The Constitution is a Commerce Treaty with any foreign empire, giving rules for conducting foreign commerce. The Bill of Rights are the first ten Amendments to that Constitution. Where in the body of the Constitution are those rights stated? Nowhere. The Bill of Rights are a separate system outside the Constitution directly related to the people themselves individually, not collectively, as most people think or believe.

        The right to secede is covered under the 1st Amendment on the right of the people to petition and to peaceably assemble as a group. That group, once they establish their rules for conduct, have officially created a new society or empire. The denial of creating an empire outside of or within the Federal jurisdiction was limited to those Corporations and organizations REGISTERED with the Federal authority under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. I challenge any registered corporation or organization to literally sit up on their shelves, without human manipulation and deny a human being of their rights. Those corporations and organizations can not do that WITHOUT manipulation of a human being, because they are nothing more than contracts written down on a piece of dead wood.

        Every individual was registered with the Federal Authority on the day they were born, and every American has the right to turn that registration back in to the Federal Authority or even the State Authority and say “I QUIT”. That will take you out from under the acquiescence of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. This is where secession is saying to the the Federal Authority directly “I QUIT”. BUT it must not stop there. Secession requires the people tired of being under the Commerce Clause to quit even under State registration too.

        Education of the people needs to be reinstalled to better inform them of what they can or should do and stop being led around by the ring in their nose (or on their fingers – Marriage is also a registration) by those who claim the authority over all others. Every person who was born on the land of this country was born an American. Every American born within a State of the Union was a resident of that State 30-60 days after their registration cleared the books of the State. Those Americans are never recognized by the State until a set period of time has past in residency. You can lose your residency, if you move out of the state and do not retain lawful land holdings within that state. To regain your residency, if you are not a land holder, you must reside in that state up to 90 days to be recognized and then register as such.

        I believe it is time for the American people to wake up and become more educated and to do more things independently rather than being led around by the rings in their noses.

      • Kate8

        Kansas – Excellent post.

        The thing is, petitioning the WH is a symbolic gesture only. It’s asking parasites to free their host…ain’t gonna happen. They depend on the states for their survival.

        In the first place, the WH doesn’t have the authority to grant such a petition. And I don’t care what Scalia or any other corporate judge rules…any state can assert its right to secede through its legislature. Each state was established as free and sovereign of the federal government. The fact that a pack of corporate wolves has lured them into submission through funding (which was extracted from the states in the first place)…well, it’s time to re-declare their sovereignty.

        Anyway, I wouldn’t be surprised if it wasn’t the WH to started these petitions to gauge the strength of the opposition, and to get their names and info. It was too well organized right after Obama offered the “petition” site. Despots do deceptive things to draw out their enemies so they know who to eliminate (sorry, Mary, but communists always do this when they take control of a country. Just look at how many times it’s already been done in just the last century.)

        The other thing is, Obama has plans to break the USA up into regions. This also gives a good idea of how receptive people would be to the dissolution of our nation. Unless the corporate Beast is beheaded, just how long does anyone think any state struggling to get back order would last against their armies and their power? It’s not like the Feds are going to just sit back and watch people pull out. It’s total control they want, and I can’t help but think that this is all being orchestrated just like everything else.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          Exactly!
          “Obama has plans to break the USA up into regions.”

          This is UN’s Agenda 21 in action. In San Francisco they just finished a high rise of 200 Sqare foot sized apartments to stack people into. Remember they must get us out of the way so that the UN will have easy access to steal America’s natural resources. But also remember that many states have banned Agenda 21.

          What most people do not realize is that when we talk of individual freedom, it is MUCH different then the “freedom” the progressives speak of.

          The progressives want to “free” up the people from ever having to make another decision on their own on anything: From where they will live, what they will be allowed to eat, when they will be allowed to eat it, when they will be allowed to sleep and how many hours of sleep they will get, they will NOT be allowed to own anything (cars, homes, businesses, even the cloths on your back will be supplied to you) – that is independent decision making and they are working to free everyone from that burden, who and IF they will be allowed to date, if they will be allowed to “breed” and with whom, etc. They want to “FREE” everyone from the burdens of every having to make a decision in everyday life, instead they will decide everything to all. it won’t be that hard once they have dicided where each person will be assigned and to what duties. Then the “overseer” will make sure that they do as told.

          To me, that is slavery, not freedom.

      • Kate8

        Kansas – Yes…; hence, their assertion that “war is peace, slavery is freedom…”

        Just like their reinterpretation of “freedom of religion” as “freedom from religion”, meaning that no one has the right to believe anything except what is dictated by government…
        And speech is only free as long as it is in line with liberal-speak…

      • DaveH

        Mary says — “What ???? Obama’s Assassination List? you are really jumping off the deep end”.
        More nonsense from Mary.
        Do you think, Mary, that they will advertise their hit list in the Sunday Times? Did Stalin? Did Hitler? Did Mao?
        Here’s what we do know:
        http://rt.com/usa/news/drone-strike-obama-casualties-604/

        Oh yeah — They’re “terrorists”. How convenient.

      • DaveH

        Mary says — “The same was said about Clinton during the Whitewater fiasco, by the fools on the right Look back and see for yourself”.
        Suspicious deaths surrounding Bill Clinton:
        http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/death.html

        Coincidence?

      • DaveH
      • Lacy taylor

        We’re no longer a constitutional republic Kansas, we are becoming a rule by mob.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        “Fast and Furious”

        Get over yourself. Even Issa admitted that neither the White House or the Justice Department knew about it.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          It is easily verifiable.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNhYk9NuNc&feature=player_embedded#
          Project Gun Runner (Fast and Furious) was launched under the orders of President Barack Obama with the knowledge of Attorney General Eric Holder. Deputy Attorney General David Ogden announced the Obama Administration’s new and aggressive ‘comprehensive plan’ on March, 24, 2009. The plan was aimed at disrupting gun trafficking between the United States and Mexico.
          The first words are: “The president has directed us to…”
          Funding attempt: H.R.495 Southwest Border Violence Reduction Act of 2009 failed.
          H.R.1 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 made it.

          Holder gave a speech at the arms trafficking conference in Cuernavaca, Mexico, on April 2, 2009, in which he boasted about Operation ‘Gunrunner” and told Mexican authorities of everything he was doing to insure its success.

          In Cuernavaca, Holder not only acknowledged the program, he bragged that he was in the process of expanding it:

          “Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion. DHS is making similar commitments, as Secretary Napolitano will detail.”

      • JeffH

        tlgeer says about Fast & Furious “Even Issa admitted that neither the White House or the Justice Department knew about it.” PROOF?

        What Issa admitted was that Congress has found no evidence that President Barack Obama or anyone at the White House had participated in a cover-up involving the Fast and Furious scandal.

        (TheHill.com June 27, 2012) In a seven-page letter to the president, the chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee leveled his most direct allegations yet at Obama just two days ahead of a full House vote on whether to place Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress for failing to respond to a subpoena.

        “Either you or your most senior advisers were involved in managing Operation Fast and Furious and the fallout from it, including the false Feb. 4, 2011 letter provided by the attorney general to the committee,” Issa wrote to Obama. “Or, you are asserting a presidential power that you know to be unjustified solely for the purpose of further obstructing a congressional investigation.”

        You are aware that Holder is the AG in The Justice Department.

        Holder was charged with “contempt”…Issa charged that Holder is so “inept that he is dangerous.”…Issa further attacked Holder, saying, “If we assume for a moment that he didn’t know, the question is: Is he competent?”

        The “Definition Of Lying Depends On What Your State Of Mind Is”

      • BR549

        Kansas Bright wrote: “They are BOUND by their Oath to support the Constitution, and should they abrogate their Oath by their acts or inaction, are subject to charges of impeachment and censure.”

        You had also stated that the oath was Article VI, Sec 1, Clause 4, but I am unfamiliar with what you were referring to. Section 1 of Article VI refers to debts, Sec 2 refers to our being bound to treaties we enter into, and Sec 3 refers to Oaths and Affirmations. ….. But that is within the rules of the de jure government; the one our forefathers set up for us so long ago. What presidents and legislators have been doing behind our backs is operating under the pretext of the de jure government of the “united States of America”, while in practice, they have operated under the corporate name of the “United States of America” and taking their marching orders from the banks. Our government has been operating under a ruse for over 150 years, with the elected officials going along to get along, with the the increasingly and intentionally dumbed down population understand less and less of the truth of the treason and the theft of our nation.

        Hillary and Obama have been so busy signing us up to the UN’s Agenda21 mandates that the average citizen just thinks this is normal business for our leaders. It isn’t. The problem goes way back to that problematic stage in our US history, when the legislature originally ratified what was to become the Act of 1871. This act and it’s surreptitious evil cousin, the 14th Amendment, had the effect of acknowledging the country’s debt to the Rothschild family for its loans during the war. What the Rothschilds did, not unlike their typically sleazy M.O. that they used during the Battle of Waterloo to gain control of the entire finances of London, was to encourage loans to BOTH the North and the South, all the while knowing they would collect either way.

        With the banker promoted passage of the 14th Amendment, our citizenship was then bound through DC in lieu of the several states, and we see the vestiges of that treason in our current de facto government which has attempted to overtake our de jure government set up by and for its sovereign citizens. When you see the gold Admiralty fringe on the American flag, the person in front of it is operating within the parameters of the de facto government, not the de jure government. That is why you will never see Obama or any of them with the real red, white, and blue.

        But back to Hillary and Obama (and Bush41, Clinton, and Bush the Idiot); they’ve all known about this. Presidents have known about this for over 1-1/2 centuries and have only mentioned the debt; not how it was thrust on us or even helping to further educate the population about it.

        When it all comes out in the wash, the legislators who have signed us onto this mess have done so out of bad faith; like a parent who would willingly prostitute their own child. As I see it, any deal made in bad faith becomes null and void, thus, we don’t owe those bastards anything; not anymore. Let those parasites go out and actually make a living for a change.

        Anyway, Kansas Bright, nice posts. Keep up the good work.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          Clause 2 of Article VI of the ORIGINAL Constitution, not the one they have been re writing.

      • Kate8

        ALERT! ALERT! JeffH, DaveH, and all Patriots:

        This just in from occupycorporatism.com:

        CIA SPONSORED TROLLS MONITOR INTERNET AND INTERACT WITH USERS TO DISCREDIT FACTUAL INFORMATION.

        The FBI and the CIA are using trools to monitor ocial media and interact with users to discredit information diseminated on the web.

        The CIA provides training videos to new recruits on how to troll the internet. Once a target is locked in, the open-source information is obtained on the individual and they use any angle to discredit them in a public forum on social media sites and other sites. Software is used to sift through the mountians of users … and the open source center is where recruits and personnel are USED BY THE GOVERNMENT to troll and analyze websites for information pertinent to the objective the the US government. This means discrediting targets on certain websites.

        The also, as a tactic, use a “codename” when they want to discredit a topic, that goes out to all trolls to go on the attack.
        ——————————-

        I always wondered about some of the names that seem to carry a meaning.

        This is all being revealed now, that eddie, smilee, mark, jeff, and all the rest (new ones pop up every day, and they use multiple names to look like there are many of them), are IN FACT, PAID TROLLS WHO ARE COLLECTING DATA ON THOSE OF US WHO POST HERE TO COLLECT DATA ON US FOR THE GOVERNMENT.

        I say WE KICK THEM OUT. If the site is unwilling to remove this threat, we can either all stop posting, or we can, at least, stop responding to them AT ALL. Anyone who thinks they can “reason with them” is not understanding who they are. They must be weeded out, because they are committing treachery on their fellow Americans.

      • JeffH

        Kate8, no surprise here. :)

      • JeffH

        Kate8,GREAT FIND…although I doubt very seriously that most of those you named are paid trolls…I have no doubt that the likes of Right Brain(less), GALT, Falsy, Loechner and D67 and maybe a few I may have missed are, in fact, paid trolls with only one purpose.

        I read the article and this describes to a tee the pointed attacks that have been taking place against Mr. Livingston and his staff, DaveH, Jay and myself. As annoying as they are, I really don’t think they have been effective to the seasoned PLD participants and I surely know they aren’t affecting my blood pressure…at all.

        I think I can say that they have become far more aggravated and agitated with us for not playing their game by their rules and for recognizing that they are “paid trolls”.

        This is what was really telling in the article titled: CIA-Sponsored Trolls Monitor Internet & Interact With Users to Discredit Factual Information
        http://occupycorporatism.com/cia-sponsored-trolls-monitor-internet-interact-with-users-to-discredit-factual-information/

        “According to Lynnae Williams, former CIA clandestine service trainee and DIA analyst,the FBI and CIA use trolls to monitor social media and interact with users to discredit information disseminated on the web. Williams explains that the CIA provides training videos to new recruits on how to troll the internet. Once a target is locked-in, all open source information is obtained on the individual, and then any angle to discredit them in public forum is used on social media sites.”

      • Vicki

        Mary writes:
        “No where to be seen or heard, only when a Black man became President.”

        Leave it to a liberal to play the race card. But since you did I must ask. Did recounts find that Alan Keyes won? I thought obama won.

      • Kinetic1

        Kate8,
        For Heavens’ sake, is everything new or different a conspiracy in your eyes? San Francisco is growing at an unheard of pace. The job market is jumping and the cost of housing, already among the highest in the nation is following suit. According to SFGATE, studio apartments now average $2,075, up 16.5 percent in a year.
        http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Rental-competition-fierce-in-S-F-s-market-3543722.php#ixzz2Du9Re9Ms

        Those 200 sq. ft. apartments you mentioned are as big a story in San Francisco as anywhere, except Japan where this solution has been long accepted. Other nations may be surprised, but not shocked or suspicious. The average home built in the U.S. since 2003 is aprox. 2300 sq.ft. In France it’s 1216, Spain 1044 and in the U.K. that number is 880 sq.ft. We, as Americans are used to living in an abundance of space. When a friend and former co-worker of my wife was visiting from the Republic of Georgia (no, Georgia did not secede, this is part of the former Soviet Union) he saw our side porch and asked “who lives in that part of the building? He was shocked to hear that 3 of us lived in such opulence (2,500 sq.ft.)

        I would never want to live in a 200 sq.ft. apartment. Neither would I want to spend the night in one of Japan’s capsule hotels, (sleeping bays measuring 6.5ft x 3.3ft x 4ft !) but economy drives us to do many strange things, including spending a year or two in a 9×24 foot apartment, even without Government force. If you were a young single looking for space in San Francisco, you might just understand.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          You have never read Agenda 21. Yes other countries do many things we here in the USA do not do.

          Agenda 21 is a plan to implement controls on how to govern the populous and make decisions for the people of the USA and the world through actions taken by the UN. Their focus is on the global impact of use of land, education and depopulation through control measures including: eliminating personal property rights, private education (including home schooling) and eugenics (forced sterility) in order to have organized global harvesting of the USA (and the planet) under UN control.

          The UN is planning to take over conservation and management of America’s resources for their developmental purposes. By abolishing personal property rights, the demise of rural area living, removal of personal ownership of natural resource; this will take away the power from individuals and place it firmly in the hands of the governments who have agreed to UN control – that would be “our” federal government.

          It is being done here through legislation, rules, regulations, zoning, planning and regional planning; things that impact individuals property rights through the use of ICLEI programs. Some other private organizations in league with ICLEI are: the National Governors Association, National League of Cities, International City/County Management Group, American Planning Group, etc.

          They are implementing rules and regulations throughout the States, regions, and communities through zoning, planning and regional planning; things that impact our property rights. Smart Meters and the newer railroads planned are some of the things planned to further Agenda 21 plnas here in the USA.

          President Obama supports the UN’s Agenda 21 initiative, as did Romney. Presidents Bush, Clinton, and Obama worked to implement United Nations Agenda 21. Under the guise of world sustainability, the plan establishes rules to bypass Congress nationally and the American people locally.

          Agenda 21 will end individual property ownership in the USA. No one is to be allowed to live in rural areas, nor own any type of natural resource. All people will be moved to “communities” to live (stack’em and cram’em highrise housing; leaving and creating more unpopulated areas for easier UN theft of USA’s natural resources, etc.

          There will be no more owning property to raise animals, hay, food, etc. Our children will no longer have the family property to raise their animals, gardens for FFA, or 4-H, horse shows, or any other activity that requires the individual use of property. We get to “contribute” it to the community.

          There will be “community gardens” as shown in Obama’s “Julia”. She gets to retire to work in the “community garden”. NOT her own garden, but the community garden.

          In Obama’s and the UN’s eyes – The community good is everything (think ant farm). Individual rights, wants, property ownership, needs must be changed to community needs. Everyone will work for the community good; no more individual rights, cars, owning your own things, gardens, farms, koi ponds, horseback riding, etc. No individual business ownership as the UN corporations will handle all of that.

          States are fighting Agenda 21. As they become aware of the underlying meaning behind Agenda 21, they are putting in place legislation to prevent this takeover of our rights as Americans by the international UN. States are banning UN Agenda 21 polices. We need to get all the states to ban it.

          Legislation will prevent local, county and state governments from adopting the (ICLEI) programs. “I know it is totally against our Constitution from reading the U.N. biodiversity assessment,” New Hampshire, Rep. Anne Cartwright (R), sponsered banning of Agenda 21 bill. “It’s through local initiative that it is being implemented in bits and pieces to erode our property rights.”

          Alabama Senate Bill (SB) 477, known as the “Due Process for Property Rights” Act,was the first state to ban UN’s Agenda 21.

          Tennessee also adopted a resolution slamming the UN scheme as “insidious” and “socialist.” “This UN Agenda 21 plan of radical so-called ‘sustainable development’ views the American way of life of private property ownership, single-family homes, private car ownership and individual travel choices, and privately owned farms as destructive to the environment,” the resolution explains. “We hereby endorse rejection of its radical policies and rejection of any grant monies attached to it.”

          The Republican National Committee officially opposes UN Agenda 21 in a resolution adopted January, 2012, “The United Nations Agenda 21 is a comprehensive plan of extreme environmentalism, social engineering, and global political control,” The resolution calls Agenda 21 a socialist and communist redistribution of wealth to advance the UN vision of “social justice.” A group of Democrats also oppose Agenda 21.

          Florida, legislation abolished the State Department of Community Affairs that utilized plans stipulating where development could and could not occur based on their guidelines of: “smart growth”, “compact development”, “livability”, “sustainability”

          Other organizations that also battle Agenda 21 include the Tea Party, The John Birch Society, Americans for Prosperity, The American Policy Center and libertarians. Republicans in North Carolina, Kansas, Texas, Arkansas and Louisiana are also working on anti-Agenda 21 legislation.

          I am sorry, but I am not for anything that takes away our right to own property, or anything else, and will dictate to us the way we will live our lives in our country.

          The latest way our population grows is by immigration and illegal immigration, not birth rate. In the USA the way to stop population growth is to limit immigration at this time, and to STOP all illegal immigration as those in “our” federal and some of those in our state governments know.

          Instead, putting Agenda 21 into action here within our country is another part of putting us under a world government that dictates to us how WE will live in OUR country. If you want that please immigrate to one of the nations – and there are tons of them – who have that ‘lifestyle”. There has ONLY been 3 who recognize individuals have natural rights in the known history of mankind INCLUDING the USA.

          The legitmate government of the USA is rare and valuable, and I refuse to let the rebirth of the Nationalist Socialist German Workers Party (the one that implemented the takeover of Germany’s legitimate constitutional government from within) do to the USA what it did to Germany.

          If you think that is not happening, where do you think indefinite detention, pre crime, dispearing people, putting police and military into “psyche” hospitals for not agreeing with Obama (probably Bush also – but no prroof of that at this moment) .. here read this:
          “Uncontrolled search and seizure is one of the first and most effective weapons in the arsenal of every arbitrary government. Among deprivations of rights, none is so effective in cowing a population, crushing the spirit of the individual and putting terror in every heart.” Justice Robert Jackson, Chief U.S. Prosecutor at the Nuremberg Trials

          Read his Opening Statement for the Nuremberg Trials to get a quick education.

          • BR549

            Kansas Bright wrote: “Under the guise of world sustainability, the plan [Agenda21] establishes rules to bypass Congress nationally and the American people locally.”

            Your explanation was flawless. Unfortunately, there are too many Romney and Obama supporters who cannot fathom the depth of the traitorous action it would take to accomplish such a plan, over such a long period of time, and by so many public officials who had sworn an oath to serve. They can’t wrap their brain around it, so therefore it must not exist.

            Nice post.

          • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

            And a very astute observation BR. Succinct and extremely descriptive. Nice.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            Thank you. It is a tough fight for all of us. All of us will be greatly hurt by Agenda 21, though I feel the ones who will be hurt most by this underhanded corrupt action are those who are already fighting to live, eat, get jobs, etc. I believe they were put into that position because it is much harder to fight political actions when you are fighting to survive. But that is my OPINION.

          • BR549

            KB wrote: “I believe they were put into that position because it is much harder to fight political actions when you are fighting to survive. But that is my OPINION.”

            Not just opinion, KB, that was always part of their game plan; to further subjugate the free members of our culture so that they became ever more reliant on the federal system. That system was a Trojan Horse to keep citizens busy thinking they were free, while the elites regained control of all aspects of the national and world economies.

            It was never that our system of federal government was bad or ill-conceived; it was just that any system of government was doomed to fail once it became a corrupt government. Whether it be socialism, communism, democracy, dictatorship, monarchy, plutocracy, whatever; every form of government can work wonderfully if the end result is the betterment of the people themselves. The problem, quite the opposite, is that they all fail when the focus becomes the government itself and the individual is left in the dust.

          • Donald

            Oh NO! The rich are the GOOD guys. All the jealous people who envy their “success”, they are the enemy.

          • Joe America

            Yes, it’s true. The NWO is alive, well and in control of us. Everything said about it is true.

      • Andrew

        Beautifully said Kansas bright! These govt officials need to be made accountable for the level of corruption that they’ve brought upon the govt of our country. they all need to be fired, or thrown in prison for the treasonous, indirectly murderous, thieving, scandalous, and corrupt type of people they are that now inhabit ( and have for some time ) our highest govt positions. WHY IS NO ONE CALLING FOR THESE PEOPLE TO BE MADE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS? THESE TERMS ” STONEWALLING ,” and ” EXECUTIVE PRIVELEDGE ” SHOULD EARN THE PERSON CLAIMING ITS POWERS A FAST TRACK TRIP STRAIGHT TO A PRISON CELL.

        • BR549

          Andrew wrote: “These govt officials need to be made accountable for the level of corruption that they’ve brought upon the govt of our country. they all need to be fired, or thrown in prison for the treasonous, indirectly murderous, thieving, scandalous, and corrupt type of people they are that now inhabit ( and have for some time ) our highest govt positions.”

          With the recent passing of Rep. Jack Brooks (TX), many of you may remember who it was that so insistently stifled Brooks’ questioning about Oliver North’s possible involvement with the secret “Continuity of Government” (COG) program under FEMA; none other than WWII veteran and Purple Heart recipient, Hawaii Senator Daniel Inouye.

          Now, when you can’t trust your own Purple Heart people to tell the truth to the people, what the hell is going on with the loyalties in Washington? COG was sold to the US taxpayers during the Carter Administration as a legitimate program to keep the country running in a state of disaster, yet the closet globalists of that time, spearheaded by the likes of Rockefeller and Kissinger, and dutifully carried out by ruthless scum like Cheney, Bush41, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz; these were the traitors who helped funnel legitimate tax dollars to be secretly used for nefarious schemes aimed at world domination and the intentional undermining of the US Constitution. I’m of the understanding that the vast majority of this took place under Reagan’s nose, so if someone has information otherwise, please let us all know. My point was that this was fermenting behind Reagan’s back until Bush Sr. got into the White House and since then, EVERY president has been bought and paid for.

          Leavenworth would be too nice for these people.

          • Joe America

            BR!
            When you’re right, you don’t mess around. Well informed, you are.

          • Daniel from TN

            I understand how things could have happened “under Reagan’s nose.” It is now known he was suffering from Alzheimer’s AND Dementia the last 18 months he was in office, and possibly longer. In other words, his mind was already gone.

    • http://att.net Peter

      Texas joined the Union voluntarily and wrote in their constitution “Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States…” No, I don’t believe they will secede, but they do have the legal right should they decide to.

      • Texas Ride

        Texas never gave up their right to tell the fed to “shove it.”

      • Vigilant

        Yeah, that worked out really well for them in 1861.

      • amusedinil

        Peter, Sorry, but that’s a myth. In any event, you should familiarize yourself with the Supreme Court case “Texas v. White” , 74 U.S. 700 (1869). SCOTUS has spoken on the constitutionality of Texas (or any state) seceding.

      • Rob

        I’ve recently read not only the Constitution of the State of Texas, but several others and have learned that contrary to belief, Texas is not the only state that reserves the right to secession. Others include Arkansas, Louisiana, Tennessee, and Maryland. The state constitutions of both North and South Carolina, however, forbid it.

      • Kate8

        amusedinil – That kind of roll-over attitude is exactly a big part of our problem. People have become to easily cowed by “decisions” rendered by our courts.

        The SCOTUS was never meant to legislate from the bench, nor to be the Supreme Authority. It was meant to decide the constitutionality of laws only, and has no power of enforcement. Only Congress has power to legislate, and they, too, are limited by the powers enumerated in the Constitution. (However, it seems that the executive branch has usurped ALL power, and now both other branches bow to the POTUS…a sure sign that they no longer bear any allegiance to the Constitution.)

        I don’t care what the SCOTUS rules, it is an opinion only. These are men who often get it wrong, and are subject to corruption (duh!). When the government no longer follows the Supreme Law of the Land, at the consent of the governed, then we have the right not to comply with their overstep. It is precisely this indoctrination borne by our citizenry that we must ALWAYS bow to the edicts from DC that has gotten us into this mess.

        I say to all people of America: GROW THE HECK UP AND GET A SPINE. Assert your natural rights as human beings which no other humans have the right to take from you. Stand up and declare that our children shall not be enslaved, that we are free and sovereign, and that no man or group of men have the authority to set themselves above us.

        What would happen if you stood up and declared yourself supreme authority over the people in your neighborhood? Would they take it? I surely doubt it.

        These idiots in DC have gotten the notion that they can RULE over us. And there are even bigger bullies ruling over them, giving them the illusion that they are, somehow, above the rest of us. THEY AREN’T. But unless we are willing to declare ourselves outside of their jurisdiction…, well, we do, then, deserve what we get.

        Remember, there are a lot more of us than there are of them. And the fear us. You can be sure that they have plans to neutralize the threat that we are to them. It is THEY who have declared war on US, and we do have the natural right to defend ourselves.

      • http://twitter.com/TexomaPatriot freePatriot (@TexomaPatriot)

        Why would they not want us to secede? We would take away much of the opposition to Socialism/Fascism with us and they would be free to then form their utopian Socialist/Fascist gov’t. If Texas were established as a free state people would flee the Socialist States of America so fast there would be traffic jams.

      • eddie47d

        freePatriot: You are forgetting about all the citizens of Texas who don’t want to secede. My bet is that they are in the majority.

      • Texas Ride

        Kate8, give these wimps he11! Really like to see a gal with a pair! (That is a compliment.)

      • Vicki

        Kate8 writes:
        “When the government no longer follows the Supreme Law of the Land, at the consent of the governed, then we have the right not to comply with their overstep.”

        Not just the right but also the DUTY to correct the error of the employees (Government agents)

        The Soap box is under constant attack
        The Ballot box is likely compromised
        The Jury box has been under attack for centuries (fija.org)
        The Ammo box is under attack and has been since 1934 and before.

        The People are running dangerously low on peaceful options

      • Kinetic1

        Peter,
        “Texas joined the Union voluntarily..” Don’t you just love the sound of that? Texas, a strong and independent republic chose to join the fledgling U.S.A. and add their proud citizenry to the ranks of those building the greatest nation in the world. It certainly sounds better than the truth. A debt ridden republic that begged for almost a decade and finally gave up over a quarter of it’s land in exchange for the U.S. taking over $10 million in debt.

    • lady kroft

      Usually I agree with Chip’s articles…not this one.
      Mr. Wood, seriously, you don’t think that those who drew up these petitions, and those who signed these petitions were actually expecting the whitehouse to study and consider them do you?? I mean… you’d have to be a brick shy to expect that to happen.
      What these petitions are saying is that the Declaration of Independence suggests that when you have a corrupt government the people should revolt. Our First Amendment rights of freedom of speech and freedom of “redress of grievances” has been taken away from us and now we have no recourse to protect our liberties EXCEPT a revolution.
      Drawing up these petitions is nothing more than a peaceful forewarning of things to come should the government continue to ignore us.
      The next step however, after all these petitions are rejected, will not be so peaceful People like you who dismiss this as a temper tantrum and governors who “aren’t interested in the will of the people to secede” (Rick Perry) will have a rude awakening.
      It’s like WW II when all our military higher echelon were warned repeatedly that the Japanese were coming chose to ignore the people. We all know the end results of that.

      • Vigilant

        May I suggest that less than 1% of the American electorate is hardly a “mandate” for secession?

      • Bruman

        That “less than 1%” is growing, and may be larger than you think. It has been a topic of private disscusion among my “circle” of friends and family and support for it is very strong. No one that I know has signed any of these petitions nor will they (or me either). But the movement is out there.

      • david imlay

        As I stated in my comments above, The Bill of Rights is a separate system outside the Commercial Treaty of the Constitution, which deals directly in foreign commerce. Even human beings not signed directly to the Constitution are considered as being foreign. That is another reason for the taxation by a Society with their own rules for collecting monies from foreigners. Are you signed to that Contract of the Constitution? I don’t recall seeing your names anywhere on the document.

        Vigilant: with the first ten Amendments those rights were given to the people and have NOTHING to do with commerce or contracts. The right to peaceably assemble is an INDIVIDUAL 1st Amendment right and can not be taken from you without your consent.

        When you become a member of a REGISTERED movement such as the Occupy Movement, then you can be charged with violations of the registration, because that is a contract created for that event and not all of the particulars were put into that contract.

        As a human being, you do not have to ask permission to assemble, because it is already guaranteed to you anytime, by that 1st Amendment. Every American is not signed to any of the State Constitutions either. You are an American first and foremost and were an American on the day you were born, not after.

        Follow the LAWFUL Law not the LEGAL Law people. Legal gets you into more trouble than it is worth. Education is the source that needs to be leading this people instead of the ignorance of following what someone else tells you.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          “… with the first ten Amendments those rights were given to the people… ”

          Actually you are incorrect. The Bill of Rights does nt grant any rights, it reinforces the LIMITS put upon the federal government. So Lets take a couple of Amendments:

          First Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”
          (Remember that ONLY congress can legally make laws, legislation.)

          The SIX PROTECTIONS AGAINST GOVERNMENT ENCHROACHMENT ARE:
          1. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
          2. Congress shall make no law prohibiting the exercise of religion
          3. Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech
          4. Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of the press
          5. Congress shall make no law abridging the right of the people peacefully to assemble
          6. Congress shall make no law abridging the right to petition the government for a redress of grievance.

          Make sense to you? These are our NATURAL GOD GIVEN RIGHTS. We had these before there was a Constitution.

          Fourth Amendment: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

          There are two governmental limitations stated in this amendment.
          1. The citizens are to be secure in their person, home, papers, and property, from
          unreasonable searches and seizure. They have the privacy to go about their lives without worrying whether the government will invade them. This amendment was to ensure that the government does NOT trespass on the people nor take anything from the people without following correct legal procedure.
          2. The government is restrained from taking either person or property without first
          getting a warrant, and ONLY after proving probable cause. {This is only as valid as the judge is honest. There have been cases in which judges have signed blank warrants, and the details are not filled in until after serving the warrant. But all judges caught doing this should be immediatelly prosecuted as any other criminal would be}.

          These amendments in the Bill of Rights are NOT grants of individual rights, but completely a limitation on the government to ensure that they (the feds) do not go beyond their listed (enumerated) powers.

          Make sense to you now?

      • Kate8

        david imlay – Very well stated. We’ve become a nation of sheep, and are being led down the chute, bleating and baaaahhhing, to slaughter.
        ).
        THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO GRANT US RIGHTS, NOR TO TAKE THEM AWAY, except that we consent and allow it.

        The people in DC (and localities) are no different from you and me, except that they have much bigger egos and have been trained in the art of deception and manipulation, mostly through law schools. In fact, lawyers are specifically barred from serving in any government office because they have foreign allegiance (the BAR – Brittish Accreditation), per the 13th Amendment to the Constitution (of which there is much misinformation and cover-up).

        We’ve been lied to for so long that we believe that we have no power, and we behave like slaves. We’ve been completely neutered, neutralized, through the most evil and unconsciounable means ever perpetrated on a people throughout history: indoctrination, continual poisoning of our minds and bodies, distortions of truth, manipulation of our emotions, and outright brutality.

        The question is, do we bow down, accepting increasing intrusions into our lives and bodies, or do we wake up and become willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to free ouselves from tyranny.

        There is no Earthly reason why we should have to simply endure life, struggling against continual forces of limitation and plunder of our hard-earned labor, enslaved through a system of debt which claims ownership of all that we have and are (even food and water).

        Should not life be joyful and abundant? And the sad truth is that there is enough land and resources to abundantly care for every person on the planet, if we were allowed. Every person could have the ability to thrive and evolve, if we were not hindered by control freaks.

        We are not cattle, people. In fact, even cattle deserve better from life. All of life should have the right to live free and thrive, because it is only by honoring all of life that Life is perceived as having value simply by its existence. Only by honoring Life do we, ourselves, understand that we have value.

    • don

      mr livingston sir they need to spin their tires most don’t know whats comeing.

    • BR549

      Buster, I don’t think anyone of those petitioners really cares about seceding from the Union; what they want to secede from is the rampant corruption, dysfunctional foreign policy, and the progressive usurpation of power away from sovereign citizens and their states by the federal government. Of course, all the politicians will get huffy over any such suggestion, implying that their siht don’t stink and that if anyone is guilty it must be that other guy warming a seat on the other side of the Congressional floor.

      Democrat or Republican, they will all hide behind a cloak of civility, while they sanction stupidity within their own halls as well as the educational system, which has been intentionally downgraded over the last 100 years to make way for a globalist takeover of our government.

      The sad part about this is that most people do not realize that the globalists are COUNTING on this level of social disruption from within our own ranks. While continuing to engage hundreds of thousands of our best trained military personnel in one contrived global conflict du jour after another, what they have really done is to keep these personnel engaged elsewhere, outside of the USA, for when the plug gets pulled and whatever globalist stooge president decides that its time to send in the UN mercenaries to restore the peace to a chaos that they had themselves created. When that happens, there will be no way for these troops to say, I’ve had enough; I’m going home to protect my family and kids. But by then, it will have been to late. And still, they sign up, still believing that the president and the politicians are respecting the same set of founding documents that they swore to when they enlisted.

      Under Agenda21, the plan is to disband the US’s military branches and morph them into the UN’s mercenary troops. So much for Semper Fi, fighting for the Red, White, and Blue.

    • Bud Tugly

      two points of view:

      Dear
      Red States:

      We’re ticked off at your Neanderthal attitudes and
      politics, so we’ve decided we’re leaving.

      We
      in New York, Mass and CA intend to form our own country and we’re taking
      all
      the other Blue States with us.

      In case you aren’t aware that includes
      Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Md, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois,
      Vermont, the rest of the Northeast, and DC also.

      We believe this split
      will be beneficial to the entire nation and especially to the people of
      our
      new country called “The Enlightened States of America” (E.S.A).

      To sum
      up briefly:
      You get Texas, Oklahoma, AZ and all the slave states.

      We get stem cell research, the best beaches, and we’ll take all of the
      creative gay people you don’t want anyway.

      We get Barack and Michelle,
      Bill & Hillary, Andrew Cuomo, Elizabeth Warren, and Diane Feinstein. You
      get Bobby Jindal, Rick Perry and Todd Akin.

      We get the Statue of
      Liberty. You get OpryLand.

      We get Apple, Intel, Microsoft and all the
      smart technology. You get World Com, the Koch Bros, and all the coal/oil
      pollution.

      We get Harvard, Yale, Columbia, USC and Princeton. You get
      Ole’ Miss.

      We get Silicon Valley, NYC, San Fran, Seattle and 85
      percent of America’s venture capital and best entrepreneurs.

      You get
      Alabama and Arkansas.

      We get two-thirds of all the tax revenue. You
      get to make the red states pay their fair share.

      Our aggregate divorce
      rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition states, so we get a
      bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of angry single moms and deadbeat
      dads.

      With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of
      the country’s fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92%
      of
      the nation’s fresh fruit, 95% of America’s quality wines (you can
      serve Ripple
      at your state dinners), 90% of the best cheese, 90 percent of the high
      tech
      industry, most of the US low sulfur coal, all the living redwoods, solar
      power, the Sequoias and condors, all the Seven Sister schools, plus
      Harvard,
      Yale, Stanford, UC, UCLA, Cal Tech and MIT.

      With the Red States you
      will have to cope with 88% of all the obese Americans and their projected
      healthcare costs, 92% of all US mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes,
      90%
      of the hurricanes, 99% of all the Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all
      televangelist’s, plus Rush Limbaugh,Glen Beck, Bob Jones University,
      Clemson
      and the University of Georgia.

      We also get Hollywood and Yosemite,
      thank you very much. You get Appalachia.

      You get the 38% of those in
      the Red states who believe that the world was created in 7 days and
      that Jonah
      was actually swallowed by a whale, the 62% who are pro-life for fetuses
      but
      not for the kids who are actually born or their Moms, those who believe
      life
      is sacred unless we’re discussing the death penalty or gun laws, the 44%
      who
      know that evolution is only a theory, the 53% who still believe that
      Saddam
      was part of 9/11 and had weapons of mass destruction, that Obama was born
      in
      Kenya, and the 61% of those crazy bastards who even believe they have
      higher
      morals then we do.

      We’re taking all the good weed too. You can have
      that crap they grow in Mexico.

      Sincerely,

      A Citizen of the
      Enlightened States of America

      Dear Enlightened States of America;
      Sounds like a deal to us, where do we sign?

      Before you change your mind, remember that we will get the majority
      of the people who believe in God, but hell, you’ve got Barock!

      And speaking of Barock, we will be the people who still have the second
      amendment, so don’t come crying to us when Barock confiscates your firearms!

      Are you actually bragging over the fact that you get to keep: Barack & Michelle,
      Bill & Hillary, and seriously, Andrew Cuomo, Elizabeth Warren and Diane Feinstein?
      Oh my God!!!………As a curiosity though, What are you gonna do with Bill O’Reilly?

      Congratulations Blue states, You get the bankrupt state of California and its billions
      of debt!……and its air pollution. And were you really bragging about keeping “Hollywood”???
      You also win New York and NYC mayor Blumburg and no “Big Gulps!”
      Thanks for taking that load off our backs!

      As you mentioned Yosemite in your camp, I just wanted to say that Brice Canyon in Utah, and of course the Grand Canyon in Arizona take second to no other!

      Not to mention those thriving New England states!!! Must be a reason that our
      Southwest and Sunbelt states are the fastest growing of the old union.
      Of course, You people from the ESA will have to stand on line for Visas
      in order to immigrate to the TSA (Traditional States of America)

      Enjoy your bounty of lettuce, We, having the majority
      of grazing lands and cattle, we’ll be eating steak!

      With the new fracking technology, we will have the largest oil reserves in the world
      (more than Saudi Arabia) The states of Montana and Idaho already account
      for the majority of oil permits of the old union!
      As soon as you take the EPA with you, The state of Alaska will produce so much
      oil that prices will come back to 1950 levels!

      For Us!!!

      The interstate system is largely intact for us. I wonder how you guys are going to drive from California to New York? Those toll fees can be hell.

      In addition to Disneyland, you also get the great communities of Detroit…..and….
      Chicago…and their high murder rates!!!
      Along with the majority of the unemployed, and 90% of the welfare recipients!
      Good Luck with that!!

      Congratulations on keeping: Nancy Piloci, Rev. Sharpton,
      Jesse Jackson Senior, and Junior. Rep. Maxine Waters D. CA,
      Marcia Fudge D. Ohio, Gwen Moore D. Wisc. and Susan Rice,
      storyteller from the U.N.

      And of course, you get to keep (and support) the U.N.

      One problem though, I’m afraid that our population in the TSA
      will dwindle on the day of the Rapture!

      Sincerely, A citizen of the
      Traditional States of America

      • Karolyn

        Sounds like it would be good and bad things on both sides. Only proves that we need each other and should all work together.

      • Jibbs

        You can have all those nanny states, if you want to see what you get from Yale and the others, just look at D.C. All those states you want to keep are broke and sinking. BTW, we still say grace, sir, ma’m and help one another. I’ll bet you don’t know what end of a cow the fertilizer comes out!

      • jwoop66

        sounds great to me!

      • dale sine

        Bud, Nice post. I am still trying to find the good things that the Blue States are keeping. Sign me up for the TSA (as long as they don’t have those guys who molest me, like the TSA are the airport). I would gladly give up all those wonderful things that the Blue States have to be able to live without putting up with the Pelosis of this nation.

        Secession is the only answer. Our country cannot be fixed. The problem is the people with the power to make our laws are the problem. We need term limits for congress and it will never happen.

        • BR549

          Dale wrote: “Secession is the only answer. Our country cannot be fixed.”

          That’s like saying, “We can’t stop fighting , so our only answer is a divorce,” which completely avoids the topics of why two people were brought together in the first place AND, are they just going to BOTH sit their in complete ignorance and project the anger over their disagreements on each other OR, might they learn from their own personal mistakes and stop dragging their personal baggage into the relationship?

          The Declaration of Independence was a divorce from a very dysfunctional relationship, and the Constitution still is a marriage agreement and is only as valid as the states which desire to stay married. As I understand it, the only way to secede is for Congress to dissolve the Constitution, but that would leave the states with no central authority. With the crap we have coming from DC today, what’s the difference? Hillary has been busy selling off parts of the US to China for years, but the libtards either have no problem with that or they refuse to admit it.

          We, as states, still have far more in common than not, and the most intelligent thing we could do is wake up the zombies on both sides of the fence before Big Brother takes it upon himself to remove the marriage contract with replace it something that we all find despicable. As long as those slope-headed zombies on the far left and far right are still believing their candidate represents them, that’s like expecting an intelligent dialogue from the family canary, and it’s difficult to stay married to someone you’ve grown light-years beyond.

          • Daniel from TN

            The Constitution does not have to be dissolved to legally allow secession: It only needs to be amended, either through the usual amendment process or during a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION.
            FYI. As of the weekend of December 8th, 10 states have announced they are now ready to call for a convention.

          • Smilee

            I doubt any have really done so as who other that the legislature by a majority vote can do so and what 10 states have been in session since this madness started late this fall and it takes 34 states for it to happen, this is something that is never going to happen anyway so forget it

        • Daniel from TN

          Term limits CAN happen if the states will convene another CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. Other issues that can be addressed during a convention are: federal judges, including Supreme Court justices, should be elected to specific terms of office instead of appointed to lifetime positions; mandatory retirement age for federal judges; a balanced budget amendment; requiring the approval of states to create a new federal agency; the total elimination of some existing federal agencies; all regulations proposed by any federal agency must be approved by Congress before going into effect; requiring the approval of the states to establish a new tax or increase an existing tax; the consolidation of all federal law enforcement agencies under one agency such as the FBI; neither the president nor the attorney general should have the authority to order any law enforcement agency to NOT enforce the law; illegal aliens/immigrants (which ever term you prefer) should not be able to obtain any type of government assistance or benefits, except EMERGENCY medical treatment; a person who wants to register to vote must provide proof of US citizenship at registration; return to all paper balloting for public elections; it should be considered treason and subject to punishment by death for any official of the US government to negotiate a treaty that is in direct violation of the Constitution; it should be treason and subject to punishment by death for any Senator to vote to ratify a treaty that is in direct violation of the Constitution.
          You can probably think of other issues that need to be addressed: I only offer these to start the discussion. It is time for the people to take back their own country. A convention can do this without violence. Even if a convention is not successful, then at least history will record that the people TRIED to produce necessary change within the government and resorted to war/revolution only after all non-violent options were exhausted.

    • SarahR

      Chip Wood. You have really opened up a can of worms. What you have missed is the fact that We The People have tried just about everything to wake up our government that we do not want to become Greece. We do not want Marxism and we do not want Agenda 21 confiscating all our goods and properties. We will do all we can peacefully and seceding is one. However, if a revolution is necessary, I am sure it will happen. Also, I have to say I have never been in a site that had so many well-informed readers. Please, you guys, if you are so smart, get us out of this and hurry there is not much time left.

      • DaveH

        We are the Few, Sarah. The best we can do is to educate as many people as possible to the concepts of Freedom, hoping that eventually we become the many.

    • SarahR

      Chip Wood, you have opened up a can of worms. To secede is all we have left before a revolution. No one really wants a revolution. I WANT TO SAY THAT THIS SITE HAS THE MOST WELL INFORMED READERS. PLEASE GUYS, COME UP WITH SOME ANWERS TO SAVE AMERICA AND HURRY. THERE IS NOT MUCH TIME LEFT

      • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

        First clean up your state govts. and force them to start Nullification of overreaching fed. mandates. If that doesn’t start to get us back on track to Freedom then secede. And if you do that you’d better make sure you’re locked and loaded! The Evil One and his handlers will throw everything they can to stop secession from being successful. Including the bringing in of foreign troops.

        • Daniel from TN

          Nullification is one way to stop the current out of control government, one step at a time. If its going to be done in a clean sweep then the states need to convene another CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, which is what I’ve been saying for several months. I don’t know if others have been listening to me, but there are now eight states that have stated they are now ready to call for a convention.

      • DaveH

        Daniel, I don’t think that Nullification will raise any fewer hackles from Big Government than Secession would. And a Constitutional Convention would be very dangerous indeed, due to the vast ignorance among the heavily propagandized citizens about the concepts of Freedom.

        • Daniel from TN

          Your comments against a convention DO have some merit. However, have you taken a close look at the direction our country is currently headed? Do you REALLY believe a convention could make the situation worse? Granted, some things could theoretically become worse after a convention. But a convention could be a GIANT step towards reinforming/reeducating the “propagandized public” about the concepts of freedom.

    • Sam Adam

      I,m BARRACK, I SAY NO, and I MEAN NO to SUCCESSION FROM MY COUNTRY. You ask MY PERMISSION BY SIGNING PETITION[permision], THE ANSWER IS NO. American convert a GOD given Right to a PRIVILEGE licensed by the govt everyday of their lives. birth, voting, marrige lic. driving, taxes, dog lic, ins, banking, credit cards, home title car title, SS, Govt can,t grant what they don,t have. God already granted you FREEDOM LIFE and LIBERTY, don,t ask permission and except a Privilege.

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      If this country doesn’t get real about the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and God, it is gone, wasted and nothing more then a piece of crude. We aren’t mentioned in the end of the age, wow, wonder why? God always gave a evil leader when he judged his nation and we have one and about to be judged. The dumb, blind and immoral will soon learn that God is in charge and not them, so pull down your pants, lift up your skirts and stick you heads into where the sun don’t shine. This country is gone, won’t be a thought in the minds of anyone, the election proved that and continue’s with a agenda of drugs, same sex marriage and children raised in a state of confusion and those who don’t want to see stick there proud noses in the air and tell God to get off the planet, well little created beings get prepared to get your butts kicked and hard.

      • BR549

        Benjamin Fox wrote: “The dumb, blind and immoral will soon learn that God is in charge and not them, so pull down your pants, lift up your skirts and stick you heads into where the sun don’t shine.”

        The recent inundation of the television channels with one zombie or walking-dead show after another is a testament to how the system sees the average voter …… brain dead. The only problem the rest of US have is trying to convince those brain dead Romney and Obama supporters that their saviour candidates were BOTH part of the problem. Until that happens, it’ll be a really tough fight, because THEY will still be believing that anyone who questions the status quo (i.e. their globalist puppet candidates) MUST be a terrorist.

  • Harold Olsen

    This website that Obama has put up is not for petitions. It is for the purpose of gathering information on people. I doubt that any action will be taken on any of the petitions other than put people on enemies watch lists. I logged onto the White House’s site a couple of months back to just send an email and was surprised to discover I was required to open an account, which meant giving them all sorts of personal information. Back when Bush was in office, that wasn’t necessary in order to send an email. Heil, Obama!!!

    • jwoop66

      Yes.

    • http://www.flyover-press.com The Gunny 419

      Harold, I agree. The “open an account” requiremet spooked me away from signing Texas’ petition. But, more power to those that signed and I don’t think they are going to jail hundreds of thousands of people (I certainly could be wrong about that).

      Anyway, these guys (petition signers) are “barking up the wrong tree.” No slave master is going to voluntarily free his slaves. They should be working on their state legislators because, after all, they should be the ones to prepare and sign the declaration.

      Yours for freedom in our lifetimes. — jtl, 419

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Yes it can happen here and anywhere as it has through out history.

      • http://www.facebook.com/don.duncan.501 Don Duncan

        “They should be working on their state legislators…”? Why? So a proxy can “beg their masters for freedom”? Deny the authority of government, deny the idea that anyone can rule by force and claim to be moral, even if they have support of a majority. Deny that democracy is a moral justification. Declare you independence as a sovereign individual. The individual is sovereign, not the mob. Therefore, no neighborhood is sovereign, no city is sovereign, no county is sovereign, no state is sovereign, no union is sovereign.

      • TIME

        Dear Gunny,

        You are 100% correct { we all must start in our own states}, > the best place is your state’s Governor,{ If enough states Governor’s would stop allowing in the Federal’s} then the Federals will have no one to boss around.

        This is really quite simple to see ~ if you all will allow the smoke to clear the room.

        If a nautral disaster happens, all the persons within your state need to aide each other and tell FEMA and the FEDS where to get off.
        Not unlike what just happened with Sandy, the South Eastern states sent electric workers and construction people up to NJ and NY only to have them sent back home as soon as they arrived.
        Why? Due to the “STATES ~ UNIONS” as they would not have “NON Union” people working.
        So even if at one point in TIME the Unions were a good thing, ~ they have not only failed their members ~ but they also have failed thier States populations when the people need help.

        On a differant note: People you need to take back your home town, then each small unit builds until you take back your state. If you have the ability then run for your local Gov seats then do it,
        Its not going to be some special person that saves this nation, its going to be YOU!

        Be Fair minded, but be firm, our “Moral Compass” is broken ~ and until this nation has a fix on that, we will just keep flowing down the river of dispair and hoplessness.

        There can be Change for Good, { but again “YOU” have to work for it.} Its sucks to have to do the work but if you want the “Original Constitution” and Bill of Rights back, then we have to get back to it one step at a time.
        Remove all Amendments from the Fake 13th upward. Get the “Original” 13th back in place and oh what a differance just that would make.
        Don’t know what the Original 13th Amendment was or is, then you need to start l;ooking into what it was, and learn about {what} was done to it and {who} did it and {why}, and {When}.

        Again, don’t complain, just get your hands dirty and do what has to be done.
        “”The United States is a Corporation”” ~ and YOU are not in it!

        The Federal Reserve ~ is also ~ not a good thing and it needs to be removed.
        Also the criminals behind it need to be allowed the same treatment they have given the Worlds Population, {starvation, deprived of Human rights,} and everything else thay have brought about.
        The NEA needs to go, The FBI needs to go, the DEA, needs to go, all of these crazy controls over human’s abilitys to have a life need to go, After all all they do is expand the Criminal elements in this nation and thats of no value to anyone with a MORAL BASE!

        Also we have to ~Get rid of all LOBBYIST ~ No one is more special then the next. Nothing is FREE and everyone has to work to make a Positive differance, a free phone or EBT’ Cards will not cut it.
        These people need to become productive members of the unit, even if all they do is baby sit, its still something.
        We can never stop the maddness if we keep growing it!

        I am all for progress, and to make life better for everyone, but that also IMPLIES that everyone must help in this venutre ~ as in NO sitting around doing nothing. We must all become once again ” SOVEREIGN CITIZENS.” In “SOVEREIGN STATES.” In a
        ” SOVEREIGN NATION.” Not one run by the United Nations.

        Peace and Love

      • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

        Remember that under UN’s Agenda 21 – that both Obama and Romney support – “depopulation” is one of the measures they are using for population control.

        I fight them openly because if we are quiet and do nothing but hide they will take greater liberties while taking ours and our lives.

        Look up how many of the military and LEO “suicides” were done with 2 headshot wounds from different weapons.

        Look up (is VERY difficult now to get the numbers) how many in the CIA, FBI, SS, LEO’s, US Miltiary have been “placed” in psych hospitals for not going along with this government. Very hitleresque of them isn’t it?

        In Germany the ‘N’ party plans were for the overthrow of, and then the “capture” of the legitimate central government so they could change it to what they wanted. {me – Sound familiar?}

        (From the Nuremeberg Trials: A separate government was set up within the legitimate government within the Party to exercise outside the law every sanction that any legitimate state could exercise and many that it could not {Obama’s “Czars”, TSA, DHS}.
        The Party had its own secret police, its security units, its intelligence and espionage division, its raiding forces, and its youth forces {DHS, TSA, look up “Obama youth” on youtube.com}.
        It also established administrative mechanisms over time to identify those who supported the legitimate government {Patriot Act, NDAA, warrantless searches, warrantless spying, TSA, Petittions, etc}.
        They “encouraged” the populace to inform on their own neighbors, friends, family {“See Something, Say Something”, and other videos the DHS put out here in America}.

        “Uncontrolled search and seizure is one of the first and most effective weapons in the arsenal of every arbitrary government. Among deprivations of rights, none is so effective in cowing a population, crushing the spirit of the individual and putting terror in every heart.” Justice Robert Jackson, Chief U.S. Prosecutor at the Nuremberg Trials

        A presidential decree was created suspending the extensive guarantees of individual liberty contained in the constitution of the Weimar Republic. Those decree’s were restrictions on personal liberty, on the right of free expression of opinion – including freedom of the press, on the right of peaceful assembly, the right of association;
        and violations of the privacy: postal, telegraphic, and telephonic communications;
        and no need for warrants for house-searches, orders for, confiscations as well as restrictions on property, etc all taken away under the guise of “keeping the people safe”. {much like what is happening within the USA today, as all of the “restrictions” on our freedoms are “for our own safety”}
        Many were arrested as “belligerents” – no real crime committed, just disagreeing with the destruction of their legitimate government.

        Secret arrest and indefinite detention; without charges, without evidence, without hearing, without counsel, and no court could issue an injunction, or writ of habeas corpus, or certiorari. The German people were in the hands of the police, the police were in the hands of the ‘N’ Party, and the Party was in the hands of a ring of evil men who wanted to rule the world.
        {The concept then was to control the world; the concept now is to make a one-world “government”, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? Any of this sound familiar to anyone who has been in the USA over the last 15 or so years? Because it should.

      • James L.

        You have something there Gunny. I really think Chip misses the whole picture. I guess by now it is pretty clear that with so many wanting ‘out’, we should reconsider our stance. Let’s stay and get rid of all the crooks in the WH and Congress. We should only keep the folks that believe in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

      • ed

        dON’T THINK THEY ARE GOING TO JAIL Think FEMA camps and the patriot act.

      • david imlay

        Don: I am going to challenge you on the Sovereignty, because I know you have not read the “Law of Nations” (and is a Supreme Law of the Land per the Constitution) which deals directly into Sovereignty as is recognized by all empires universally. G.W. Bush said it best and succinctly. He was the “Decider”, and he was right. A Sovereign is the “Decider” and that decision making can be allotted to a State, a group, or any organization as long as you are signed to it, and all of the signees have a voice in deciding. A leader is APPOINTED by all of the deciders, and that appointee makes the final decision for the group, so yes, Sovereignty can be extended beyond an individual. Sorry!

      • david imlay

        Time: One good point but not enough elaboration on it and one bad point.

        The good point: Governors. Governors are the State’s Sovereign or “DECIDER”, the CEO of the State Corporation of the State’s economy, and the protector of the inhabitants of those within the Borders of the State he governs. The governor does not have to allow any other foreign agent to have any authority over his own responsibilities, and that includes the foreign agent of the Federal Government.

        The bad point: Where in the Constitution body does it even mention the Bill of Rights? Nowhere that I have found directly referring to them. They are separate and independent of the Constitution because the Constitution deals directly with foreign commerce, corporations, and any other organization REGISTERED with the Federal Government.

        Are you REGISTERED with the Federal Government? Yep with your registrations of marriage, licenses, social security, and then your birth certificate (not your certificate of live BIRTH). Turn those back in and get out from under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution, which enslaves you. Terminate your slavery to those registrations and become a freeman and Sovereign!

      • TIME

        Dear David,

        You are correct in all respects, but most don’t understand the points you bring forth. { I don’t drive any longer I travel,} I know you will understand.

        MERRY CHRISTMAS ~ Peace and Love be with you.

    • eddie47d

      Most official petition sites or even E-Mail accounts (whether private or government) require name,address,E-Mail and sometimes phone number. Stop thinking everything is an Obama Conspiracy because it isn’t. I have signed 52,560 various petitions from a wide array of organizations within the last 2 years. No one has come knocking at my door or hacked into my computer. I send E-Mails to Congress all the time so lay your paranoia kool aid down and stop chugging this cup of insanity! Everyone has to “open an account” to comment with the local newspaper and even on this PLD site. If liberty is so valuable to you why would you be so scared to participate in it.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        I am sure you did not nor would not sign such a petition.

      • Paul Wells

        Interesting to me that one who seems to accept openly the requirements to open said accounts might also be one who would protest at having to show a photo ID in order to vote. Ironic, isn’t it?

      • eddie47d

        Still a sore and angry loser Capitalist at Birth?

      • eddie47d

        I bet Paul didn’t squawk when PLD asked him for pertinent information and the White House can’t be any different. Its not the ID cards that are the problem but the continual lies about bonafide Americans NOT being able to vote and the attempt to keep them from voting. To paraphrase you Paul, Conservatives are against a National ID card yet they demand a Voter ID card.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “No one has come knocking at my door or hacked into my computer”.
        Why would they want to arrest you, Eddie? To keep you from aiding and abetting them? Not likely.
        Why would they want to hack your computer, Eddie? For useless information?

      • Paul Wells

        eddie47d says :”To paraphrase you Paul, Conservatives are against a National ID card yet they demand a Voter ID card.” Once again, idiot eddie is telling me what my positions are, by doing what any good leftist does, just make up stuff to suit his feeble minded agenda! Eddie, I don’t care what you think “Conservatives” are against or for, and please provide demonstrable proof that even ONE legal citizen did not vote because they had to prove who they were. This is just another left wing lie, by those who are deaf, dumb and blind!

      • eddie47d

        Poor Paul always telling others how to think and then resorts to name calling when someone challenges him. I can take it to bad you can’t . The same with you Dave H. the simpleton!

      • Paul Wells

        And poor eddah, making his ad Hominems and failing to provide proof for his outrageous claims that voter i.d. laws ACTUALLY caused even one legitimate and legal voter to be denied the vote. The most damnable of lies are those that are not substantiated, and are used as part of a smear campaign. No honor, in you, Eddah!

      • DaveH

        Are you looking in Karolyn’s Magic Mirror, Eddie?

      • JeffH

        eddie says “I have signed 52,560 various petitions from a wide array of organizations within the last 2 years.”

        eddie, hmmmmm, that equates to 72 petitions a day…I’m not calling you a liar but you may want to go back and double check those figure.

      • eddie47d

        What are you trying to prove this time Jeff H that you can do simple math tricks? Somedays when I don’t have the grandson I can sign 1-200 per day and you thought I only blessed you each day.

      • eddie47d

        So Paul does approve of a National ID card! I would approve of voter ID cards if the Republicans actually gave a dang about the rest of the American citizens. Whether they have a card or not or live in a house or not they are still American citizens and have the right to vote. As in the past the Republicans will never go out of their way to help poorer citizens or old people in nursing homes to get an ID card. That will disenfranchise them and you know it.

      • JeffH

        eddie, yeah I can do simple math…an average of 72 petitions a day over a two year period…you’re a straight up liar and you’re obviously not very bright if you really think anybody would believe you and your delusional story of 52,560 signed petitions. Not everyone is as gullible as you are.

      • Kate8

        Yeah, eddie. Since you, obviously have kept a tally of the petitions you’ve signed to have arrived at such a number, how about sharing? I’d be really interested in what petitions you may have signed.

        Hmmmm. Have there even been that many petitions out there? I have seen a lot of them over the years, but not nearly that many during my lifetime. Maybe you are talking about some goof-ball liberal group cranking out stupid petitions at such a rate…LOL.

      • DaveH

        Good catch, JeffH.
        It’s telling that Eddie would dance around instead of just admitting his dishonesty.

      • JeffH

        Dave, LMAO, you know eddie’s been caught in so many lies that he lies about lying.

        ROFLAO…1-200 petitions a day when he’s not baby sitting…and pigs can fly too!

        Kate8, my thoughts were the same…52,560 is a nice round number. Myself, I might sign a couple of petitions a month if I’m lucky…but 52,560? Not in a lifetime!

      • Kate8

        JeffH – eddie reminds me of guys I’ve known who just make stuff up all the time and spout off as if it were true. Sometimes I think they actually believe their fantasies.

        Trouble is, you never know if you can believe anything they say, so you just blow them off because they’ve proven themselves to have zero credibility.

      • JeffH

        Kate8, my Congressman, Devin Nunes, wrote a great opinion article that was published in the Fresno Bee today. As you are aware, California has always been the state that has set the tone for the rest of the nation, especially our federal government.

        DEVIN NUNES: California’s day of fiscal reckoning near
        Friday, Nov. 30, 2012 | 07:46 AM

        California was once a model for the nation — a prosperous, well-functioning state that attracted migrants from across America who sought their fortune in gold prospecting, agriculture, startup businesses, high-tech ventures, and other enterprises. Now, the Golden State is becoming a different kind of model — an example of how to ruin one of the world’s most advanced economies and put millions of people on the pathway to poverty.

        Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/11/30/3084062/devin-nunes-californias-day-of.html#storylink=cpy

        Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/11/30/3084062/devin-nunes-californias-day-of.html#storylink=cpy

      • JeffH

        Kate8, After 3+ years of the same crapola out of eddie’s mouth…it’s clear he believes himself.

        Kate8, my Congressman, Devin Nunes, wrote a great opinion article that was published in the Fresno Bee today. As you are aware, California has always been the state that has set the tone for the rest of the nation, especially our federal government.

        DEVIN NUNES: California’s day of fiscal reckoning near
        Friday, Nov. 30, 2012 | 07:46 AM

        California was once a model for the nation — a prosperous, well-functioning state that attracted migrants from across America who sought their fortune in gold prospecting, agriculture, startup businesses, high-tech ventures, and other enterprises. Now, the Golden State is becoming a different kind of model — an example of how to ruin one of the world’s most advanced economies and put millions of people on the pathway to poverty.

        Read more here: http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/11/30/3084062/devin-nunes-californias-day-of.html#storylink=cpy

        This is a repost because the original post contained a “double link” to the article and went into immediate moderation.

      • eddie47d

        [comment has been edited] I just finished signing 308 more between the time you blew me off and the present time. That comes to over 100 in one hour and that is on one petition site. These sites offer thousands of petitions in which to choose from and I even ate lunch while doing it. Some are no more than one sentence and some are several paragraphs long. You are automatically logged in for each petition although 100 is actually a record for me. Usually it is closer to about 70 per hour. The bottom line is that I am getting sick of you calling me a liar when you have no idea of what you are talking about. What did I sign: Stop abuse of animals and stopping Crush videos,Stopping child trafficking,Stop overfishing in our oceans,Arrest poachers of Ivory and the elephant slaughters,Mercury pollution,Labeling of GMO products,several on clean water around the world,supporting safe child births in 3rd world countries,There was even one to “scold” idiot musicians who smash their guitars on stage, many are human rights issue such as false imprisonments mostly in foreign countries, Stopping Internet censorship,some are on supporting religious freedom and freedom from religion,three were on either changing NDAA or doing away with it,one was as simple as supporting the recycling of Christmas cards and another to support honey bee habitat. A handful were political, one was to reprimand Walmart for buying from that factory in Bangladesh that caught fire and killed over a hundred. About 20 were in support of the environment and the destruction of wildlife habitat.

      • eddie47d

        Now its 29,579 petitions signed on one petition site and 21,507 on my other main site. The rest are individual petition requests from organizations I belong to. After recounting you can add 526 to that original number = 53,086.

      • JeffH

        eddie, just so ya know, after dinner last night I got on the computer and signed 1,368,153 petitions in an hour and a half…all on the same website. My total for the year is now 1,368,161. Here is the website I used http://www.pigscanfly.org/petition

        I guess I owe you an apology. Would you care to share the websites you use?

      • JeffH

        Oh, one more thing eddie…52,560 + 308 = 52,868. Do the math!

        If you don’t want to be called a liar then don’t lie…it’s that simple. I really don’t care whether you are tired of it or not…it is what it is and you are what you are. Quit with your lies and I’ll stop calling you a liar.

      • eddie47d

        See the thing is Jeff I don’t lie like you just attempted to do. One Petition site is Change.org and the other is Care2.org and they have thousands of petitions on a variety of subjects. Each day there are hundreds of new ones with most very serious and some downright silly. On Care 2.org you receive points to donate to charity. I’ve donated about 18,000 points and still have another 16,000 for such things as food supplements,seeds,clean water kits and such.

      • DaveH

        Eddie can’t even read and comprehend our simple posts, and he seriously expects anybody to believe he reads and signs hundreds of petitions a week?

    • cpa

      I’m wondering if we will see IRS audits hitting folks signing the petitions and giving this information of who they are to the White House.

      • http://gravatar.com/cbgard Carlucci

        cpa, I was thinking the same thing….

      • Paul Wells

        Well, the poser didn’t ramp up IRS agents and operations for nothing…you have to know it’s coming! Probably all of us too, that will speak our minds. You have to be a mindless sheep like eddah, karolyn, and some of the others to not get audited, I’d guess.

      • eddie47d

        Its obvious Paul is up to something because he is way to defensive and threatening. Keep waving that red flag Paul and the bulls may charge.LOL!

      • Paul Wells

        Correction, eddah…the BS’ERS might charge. Go read your dailykos and moveon.org and leave the grown ups here to discuss grown up things, you petulant child!

      • eddie47d

        I’ve heard of both of those mentioned but have never read any articles on either. So that doesn’t say much about what you know.

      • Donald

        You expect your treasonous attitudes to go unpunished? Naive.

        • Joe America

          I consider the NWO a foregone conclusion. It’s a reality. You just need to figure out where your place is in the system. The is, in fact, not a coming new world order, but, an existing new world order. The people behind this plan are long suffering, and relentless. They plan ahead for generations, while the average person can’t plan ahead for next week. This is why they are winning, and, in fact, have won.

          • Donald

            I can pretty much completely agree with your comment. I still get lots of amusement from the people bitching here about things that are not important, out of their control and completely irrelevant from the bigger picture.

          • BR549

            Joe wrote: “I consider the NWO a foregone conclusion. It’s a reality. You just need to figure out where your place is in the system.”

            Somehow, I don’t feel that the founding fathers went to all that trouble just so that successive generations would willingly cave in to feudalism while holding the Vaseline jar. The NWO is not a foregone conclusion. It is what happens when people don’t pay attention to their individual and collective spiritual development and allow less scrupled people to revert them to slavery.

    • Donald

      By all means then, please sign the petition. We can send all you poor schmucks care packages in whatever southern state becomes your new home/camp.

      • Joe America

        Dear Blusterite,

        Don’t be so smug about “care packages”. If states leave the Union, there won’t be any Federal Income taxes coming from them. This whole concept of centralization of income tax into the Federal Government was never about helping American people, but, instead, giving international bankers a direct pipeline into the pockets of the Amerian people. Very little of the money collected through income taxes, since 1913, have gone into the pockets of the American people, through services, or otherwise. Instead, it has gone into the vaults of international bankers. So, very little has been left for us, anyway. If any number of states leave the Union, the loss of income would be devastating for those left in the system. This is why Lincoln started the Civil War. It was all about economics and had nothing to do with freeing the slaves. This is why it would happen, again. There would be a new civil war, but this time, bloodier and more violent. For fools so anxious to enter into Civil War II, think about these facts:

        The population of the USA in 1860 was 31,443,321, which is about ten time less than the population we have in the USA, today.

        The weapons used during the Civil War were not much more technically advanced than what was used during the Revolutionary War and War of 1812, primarily muzzle loading cannons and rifles/muskets. Cardriges didn’t appear on the field of battle until the end of the CW.

        So, you have a poplulation ten times our Civil War population, with more advanced weapons at the disposal of our military and civilians. I’d say that, after all is said and done, the death toll of any “revolution” or, so called neo-civil war, would be in the tens of millions, if not more. We could possibly lose over half our population, because our ability to kill, that ugly efficiency, has increased a 1000 fold. So, idiots who casually and glibly talk about “revolution” or a “civil war” need to think about the costs in lives and property. Looking at “The Arab Spring” the return on investment, in lives and material property hasn’t gone so well. On the other hand, if governments become too oppressive, one cannot sit by idly on their hands. There is a limit to what free humans can tolerate. Wisdom is knowing the difference, when to take action or when to hold back. If people choose violence, they have to know that the costs, in the short and long run, will be terrible.

        • Donald

          Conversely, federal tax moneys won’t be flowing to them either. Many of the states asking for “secession” (rather, the few infants who are stomping their feet demanding separation from the country) are prone to natural disasters. How many of those do you think they can handle with their own resources. People seem to think that it would be WONDERFUL to not be paying taxes. Well guess what, how are your municipalities going to run when you succeed in seceding? Taxes will have to be replaced by numerous “fees” on services and goods. Do you expect people to volunteer to run your cities and government? Unless you all want to regress to being farmers and hunters, and face it, there isn’t enough wildlife to feed your populations. Are you going to revert to vigilante justice? It might work sense most of you will be armed, but the murder rate is going to be astronomical for a few years, not unlike Mexico, as people band together to form gangs and cartels. And I bet you expect the rest of the US to act like it’s business as usual and just say “hey, it’s fine you left, we don’t hold it against you”. No, there will be tariffs, blockades, and many number of things that will make it extremely difficult to conduct business and travel outside your borders. Good luck…y’all will need it.

          Final thought: it seems like many of you are up on your history…..why is it that no one seems to remember “United We Stand, Divided We Fall”?

          • Joe America

            Donald, All the cash the fed gets comes from the people in the states. Wtihout them, the fed would be nothing. You act as though the states are children, relying on papa Sam to provide for them. The people, who live in the states, support and provide the money for Uncle Sammy to play with. This is what the Federal Government wants people to believe, that they are the keepers of the purse, that they provide sustinance, that they are the source of the well, when in fact, they are not. They, the federal government, not the people, are the parasite. So, if the states and their people are not being bled, they would do just fine. It is possible that they, the states, could leave the union and recharter themselves under the Constitution and Bill of Rights, thereby flushing the toilet of all the polititians presently in power, who have whored themselves out, and have sold out the American people. But, alas, this is a pipe dream, because the NWO is in power and in control and the American people are ignorate and oblivious to this. Our people have become addicted to government largesses for their sustinance and, because of this fact, this system will role on, until it collapses under its own weight of debt. Then, the NWO, who enabled our people to create this mess, will be the heroes who clean it up. Checkmate by the NWO.

  • Tom Strickland

    Desperate Times require desperate measures. We just think times are desperate, just wait we aint seen nothing yet.

    • Joe America

      Tom,

      You are so right.

  • http://PersonalLiberty Roger Evans Sr

    Keep it up, for we must have a way to get a redress from the pain in the White House. Tell your self and others to leave us alone and we shall go our way, the Constitution give us the right to take back our Government and this is a warning.

    • Donald

      Funny how Liberals were not looking to this “solution” during the Bush age. Deal with it. That is all.

  • http://www.electtherightcandidate.us Lofty

    To have liberty, you must be able to leave an organization. Forced church membership led to the inquisition, forced government membership leads to tyranny.

    • http://davidsfloors.com Granpa David

      Our first founding lays out the right : ” — that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government __”.

      • DavidL

        Yes. Under our system it’s called an election. We just had one and, apparently, the American people do not agree with you or your candidate’s positions and plans for the country. I hope you at least respect our system and the will of the American people. Given the choice, the right decision was made.

      • DaveH

        So, DavidL, if the Federal Government requires the confiscation of all wealth, you’re okay with that because the voters put them in office?

      • Smilee

        Seeing as they are not, whats your point, can you ever stay on topic??

      • http://davidsfloors.com Granpa David

        DavidL, did that clause from the Declaration of Independence even slow down between your ears? Did the colonies ask for a vote? Did they ask permission from the king? Below here someone said that Scalia said the Civil War decided we have no right to secede . Well duh? You don’t ask permission to alter or abolish, the whole point is to abolish or alter and establish new, and of course the monster will not give you permission to execute him. Opinions like Scalia’s and the courts and politicians is why the tree of liberty must be refreshed.

      • DaveH

        Didn’t I hear the other Dwarfs ringing the dinner bell, Sleepee?

      • Donald

        The key word here is “destruction” and I submit your definition is highly focused and narrow in its scope, unlike the definition everyone else would offer.

    • Smilee

      Lofty says:
      November 30, 2012 at 7:13 am

      To have liberty, you must be able to leave an organization. Forced church membership led to the inquisition, forced government membership leads to tyranny.

      You are not forced to have government membership you are totally free to give up your citizenship and leave the country. GOOD BYE and do not let the door hit you in the a$$ on your way out.

    • amusedinil

      Lofty, you’re free to leave. Many countries would love to have you, and literally billions of people would trade places with you in a heartbeat. Nobody’s forcing you to stay here.

      • Flashy

        Amused..i didn’t read anywhere lofty proposing to secede from the Union. i would suggest you direct your invitations to leave to those wishing to secede. They’re all in a hurry to git up and out, they should git up and get out. i suggest Central America or S America. Canada wouldn’t want such a band of lunatics…

      • Kate8

        Flush – How about we escort you and your commie pals to Cenral or South America to build your Utopia, and you stop trying to change the US. If we kicked you out, we’d have our freedom back. YOU people are the insurrectionists.

        Oh, wait…They surely don’t want you down there, either. Maybe Antarctica? Maybe you could exercise your control over some penquins… But I doubt they’d tolerate it, either.

      • Donald

        Oh KateH8, perhaps you were a bit confused about the election’s outcome. The MAJORITY spoke. The rest of you are just little kids who need a time out in the corner.

        • Daniel from TN

          Which majority are you talking about? The majority of the VOTES, or the majority of the VOTERS? They are NOT the same thing.

  • Norm

    Back in 1861, only a handful of states tried to bail. The rest got together and tussled with them. This time, we’ve got all fifty jumping onto the wagon. If, by some tiny chance, this thing comes off, are we all supposed to shoot each other, or what?

    • Bill Thomas

      It seems that one alternative is for Liberty minded people to start organizing and setting up their own country within the country. This would consist of like minded people moving to areas that are more in line with the type of country they envision. North Dakota, Wyoming, and other Western states seem to be more closely aligned to freedom than the states on the coasts. While it may not be practical for all to pick up stakes and relocate, it would one legal way to get things moving in the right direction.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        There are places in Central and South America where it is happening now. I don’t think there is any place safe other than Alaska, and I don’t particularly like the climate, from what I have read. I have been to Minnesota and the climate is very similar to North Dakota and Montana. I don’t particularly like that climate either.

      • Steve Shute

        I would agree with you, Bill, if there was any vestige of federalism left in this nation. Unfortunately, there isn’t – and even in a freedom-loving state such as Wyoming, the federal Leviathan still has sunk its blood-sucking tentacles into its affairs (i.e., private ranching and oil/gas exploration). The only way to combat this is to pursue nullification of all unconstitutional laws (starting with Obamacare and onerous EPA mandates) and to set up state-based federal tax escrow accounts that would allow individual States to determine how much “Gomorrah on the Patomac” receives of OUR tax money.

        For more information, see the following links:
        http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2010/01/18/resistdc-the-federal-tax-funds-act/
        http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/08/30/the-federal-tax-escrow-account/

        It’s time to REALLY starve the beast.

      • Smilee

        Steve Shute says:
        November 30, 2012 at 8:04 am

        You clearly do not understand the US Constitution, the tenth amendment gives power only to the states and/or the people if that power is not vested in Congress or denied the states by any part of the Constitution and Obamaare is an example that it has been found to have the power to do so vested in Congress and not the states so say the SC earlier this year and that is how our system of government works under the terms of our US Constitution. The states have ratified the US Constitution and the news states have to agree to it which is a voluntary release of power to Congress where the Constitution gives it to them with the blessing of the states. The States created the US government and the Constitution not the other way around. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT tuff!! AS YOU CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT IT.

      • Texas Ride

        Capitalist, Texas is welcoming conservatives! It is a great place and you won’t find more patriots anywhere! We need to keep it that way, so more conservatives are important.

      • alpha-lemming

        Sadly, Steve, deficit spending proves the beast refuses to be starved. That playbook (reducing taxes) doesn’t work anymore. A balanced budget amendment might get their attention, but given time, I have faith, they’d learn to disobey or bypass this as well since they’ve disobeyed or bypassed all other Constitutional restraints placed on them.

      • Robert Rashbrooke

        Bill,

        Have you been listening to the news recently? There was a major altercation going on between Israel and Palestine/Gaza because one side thought that the other had “stolen” their land.

        When you guys move to N Dakota or Wyoming, there wont be any ‘free’ un-used or un-allocated land for you all to relocate on, so what are you going to do with the existing residents who do not follow your ideas?

        This idea of secessation is just a pipe dream and unobtainable unless one stays put in their existing locations. You will have to find an alternative method of changing conditions until they more closely resemble what it is you actually want.

        • Spencer Washington

          In reply to the stoner A-Hole who didn’t know that Opryland was paved over and redeveloped 10 years ago. You should remember that all your best laid plans will evaporate like the smell of napalm in the morning once the shooting starts. Then what should concern you is how will blue America fuel and feed its population? Next how will you defend two coasts 2,500 miles apart, separated by a hostile power, two mountain ranges, and one of Earth’s largest rivers? The next thing for the Blue States of America to worry about is an army of Mexicans and Central Americans descending on California with visions of plunder dancing in their heads. That alone should buy the TSA 10 years to dig in and consolidate. Then the example of what happened to California and the fear of being left stuck out there all by themselves should bring Oregon and Washington into realignment with Alaska and the TSA. The alternative will be the Pacific North West absorbing 25,000,000 displaced Californians. Of course the first winter 100 and by the next spring only 50 million refugees will be left seeking asylum in the Blue States not to mention an army of penniless and jobless Carpet Baggers who pulled up stakes on principle. Since the blue states already are unable to create enough jobs for all their people, I fear the Blue fraction of the republic will falter and fail. But such is the fate of all peoples who foolishly reject a boring nationhood in favor of a flashy multi-cultural empire. In just the 20th Century look at the examples of succession in the multi-cultural Russian, French, German, Japanese, Italian, Serbian, British, Ottoman, and the Austrian-Hungarian Empires. You still think it can’t happen here?

          • Donald

            Given that your new secession states would have no armed forces…well…you’d be no more than a speedbump.

      • Donald

        Good luck getting your goods and services across borders, chump.

    • Hedgehog

      You’re supposed to shoot the tyrants Norm! I’m sure you know who they are. It’s more like the Revolution than the War of Northern Aggression. But don’t take my word for it, I’m a foreigner. Check your Constitution, the original one and the Declaration of Independence. I think you’ll find that you have a right and a duty to resist Tyranny.

    • Norm

      Will the real Norm please stand up.
      Fake Norm, I’ve been using this name for several years. Please customize yours to avoid confusion. Thanx.

    • DaveH

      Norm says — “are we all supposed to shoot each other, or what?”.
      Why would that be necessary, Norm, if we just want to peaceably secede from the Union?

      • Texas Ride

        Sorry to say that no one will be allowed to secede peacefully…Think why omaumau likes to compare himself to lincoln…

      • Smilee

        That is not possible Davy as the states will not be allowed to, of course, real people know this whole thing is a joke and will never happen. A hand full of jerks do not run either the states or the Country, Thank God!!

      • DaveH

        The usual ad hominem attack from a useless Liberal Progressive eater.

      • eddie47d

        What are your usual ad hominem attacks called Dave H., Politically correct conservative politeness?

      • Smilee

        I love your silly responses when you run out of words to address the issue at hand

      • DaveH

        Does it bother you guys that I break your rules and bring a gun to your gun fight?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        But smilee, you just called your O a jerk.

  • Flashy

    Many are laughing at the spectacle. It sure is a unique concept for the Tea Party, American Taliban, and other extremist organizations to garner funds though …

    • Warrior

      Please tell me that “Fundamental Transformation” story again. That’s my favorite.

      • Flashy

        ??????

      • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

        “Thumbs UP”!!!!

      • Sirian

        LOL. . . just wait Warrior, Flasho is conjuring up a new feeder line for the “Fundamental Transformation” story. Why they don’t ever want it to slip off the “best seller list”.

    • http://yahoo gail jackson

      I guess everyone needs a reason to laugh in these trying times; however I’m pretty sure we’re all going to be crying soon.

    • DaveH

      Please explain to us, Flashman, what makes somebody part of the “American Taliban”?

      • Flashy

        DaveH…I’m sure you can find a Mises link explaining it.

        What characteristics make up members of the the Islamic Taliban?

      • eddie47d

        That’s easy Dave H but I’m sure you know the answer and just love to pull Flashy’s chain! Its control by guns and religious extremism aka; Taliban and the American extreme right.

      • alpha-lemming

        I’ll take a crack at this one….. and to illustrate I’ll offer the Israel/Gaza Strip/ Palestine fiasco as a parable……

        Palestinians launch missles into Israel for weeks…. Israel finally fights back and the headlines proclaim “Israel responsible for the ESCALATION of hostilities in Middle East”. Things were fine while all the aggression was on one side…. now they’re POed because for some reason they don’t want missles fired at them anymore… (no explanation for some peoples degree of sefishness).

        Enter the redistributionists who state… “sit down, shut up, and give us all your stuff”. When I reply “I’m tired of subsidizing your life choices…. earn your own stuff” Presto-chango “if you don’t like the 1-way status-quo…….you’re now the American Taliban”.

      • DaveH

        As usual, Flashman avoids answering the question.

        Eddie,
        can you explain how possessing guns and religion makes somebody like the Taliban?

      • momo

        Sorry, DaveH, eddie47d is too busy signing a petition.

      • DaveH
  • lawrence

    With this corrupt administration I cannot blame anyone for trying to ditch obama. No one in congress is trying to stop him and he is destroying our country. He does nothing but lie and change the subject. The worse president I have ever seen and I started paying attention and voting in 1962. His goal seems to me to become a dictator and he has a good start and I think everyone is afraid of him because he is black and they fear the blacks will turn against a move to impeach him.

    • eddie47d

      Everyone thinks the other guys President is the worst . Nixon is the worst,Bush is the worst,Carter is the worst,Obama is the worst,Wilson is the worst,Roosevelt is the worst,Lincoln is the worst,etc. I reckon we are nothing but a terrible country with a continual succession of terrible (“worst”) Presidents.I’m surprised how we ever functioned up to this point if we’ve had so many worst Presidents. So many of you think the USA is a mirage and has been in decline for 200 years.At least that is the way it all comes across!

    • GRusling

      No-one is afraid of him because he’s black, and 12% of the population siding with him doesn’t scare anyone either. The only thing to fear is that the US Military would actually take up the fight against a secession movement, but with the bulk of military men and women coming from “conservative” States it’s difficult to imagine that happening. Most would probably desert and join the opposition, or simply refuse to fight.

      Secession isn’t really the answer, but the threat could create a block of States which refused to comply with any of the unconstitutional rubbish coming out of Washington these days. A block of 25 or more States (if it included the old confederacy) which declared the 10th Amendment to be fully operational and functioning could bring Washington DC to a standstill, and roll back a century of usurped authority by the fed…

      • eddie47d

        The Constitution is sometimes only a smoke screen around here. If you have been paying attention this is a site with Southern views and hurt feeling from one hundred and fifty years ago. Attempting to regain lost honor has always been a heartbeat away from those diehards. Where Lincoln is still the man to loath and the crux of their disillusionment. Many Southerners rooted for Ron Paul (I like him too) and his loss was a big blow to their egos too. Then along comes Romney whom they never loved but they had to accept him since the South is mostly Republican territory and his loss made the whole bunch of them bitter old men and women. Then black Obama gets reelected (not 12% bud) and that is just too much for the Red States. Seceding is a dream of lost causes and they do have a right to attempt such a feat but their angry reasoning just doesn’t cut it.

      • Texas Ride

        GR, you just might be wrong on all points. The government has said that the blacks were 12% of the population ever since I was in grade school! With the money paid to black women to become “producers” they should be about 30% of the population by now! Government doesn’t want you to know the actual number.
        And, you can bet your booty that the government is in fear of an uprising of the african natives… Until the blacks consider themselves to be Americans instead of an ethnic group there will be racism, reverse racism at its worst. Remember that the Black Panther leader said that “We must kill all White babies!” Not much of anything was ever said about that, was it..Blacks will always vote for anyone that doesn’t have White skin. Nothing else matters to them. Lets just bury our heads in the sand and keep paying them to multiply, as we do with all other minorities.

        The foreigner has meet with NO resistance from any government entity, and has faced no charges for illegal treasonous acts. If this were a White man, he would have been thrown under the bus long ago. None of the this would have been tolerated by the country, .We all know that to be true. It is undeniable. There is intimidation, our politicians are afraid of retribution. They have seen it happen to others. The politicians know a lot more about what is going on than we have been told. The people haven’t a clue and are being lead to slaughter like sheep.
        Our leaders are saving themselves, securing their place in a world they are convinced is coming and that it is futile to resist. Do I think people are afraid…that is a resounding “Yes.”

      • Robert Rashbrooke

        GR,

        You must live in Cloud Cuckoo county. When you say that the military/militia wont shoot Americans in America, what about Kent State et al. Just read Peoples History of America to see how many times Governors have called in their militias/military to suppress unarmed civilians during your 200+ year history.

    • nc

      Lawrence, having read here about the conspiracy of Obama to become a dictator I decided to ride over to Charlotte to take a look at the huge FEMA camp in operation there! It was terrible to see all of those imprisoned conservatives who signed those petitions clinging to the wire fence crying out to their Muslim guards for food, water and the elimination of the Capital Gains Tax!
      What I did find pleasant was watching “Sweep” Hannity and “Landslide” Root shuffling around the compound asking if anyone got the number of that truck that hit them on Nov.6th!

      I had to leave because even I could no longer stand those loudspeakers blaring out those Al Sharpton speeches played backwards at max volume!

      Larry, you are living in the greatest country in the world! Something tells me you would complain if they hung you with a new rope!

      • DaveH

        The Greatest Country in the World is fading fast. Don’t blink, NC.
        In the 2002 Annual Report on Economic Freedom from the Fraser Institute, the US was ranked 3rd in Economic Freedom, surpassed only by Hong Kong and Singapore.
        In the 2012 Annual Report on Economic Freedom, the US is ranked 18th. We have now fallen behind former 3rd World Countries such as Chile, Bahrain, Estonia, and Qatar in Economic Freedom.

    • Smilee

      lawrence says:
      November 30, 2012 at 7:19 am

      I first became eligable to vote in 1962 also and have voted in every election to date and I could not disagree with you more and there is not evidence what so ever to support your anger

  • Elevenarrows

    True patriots are hopefully already aware of this imminent danger, but for those of you with your heads in the sand, there is an important vote coming up in Congress. It seems innocent enough: protection for the disabled. However, it is cloaked as protection for a minority while it actually subjects all Americans to UN oversight…again. If you are unaware of what is going on in this epic battle (fought by a few and led by Senator Jim Demint), get up to speed quickly and call your Congressmen (and women for you feminists) and tell them to block the ratification of the UN treaty: CRPD.

  • Ron r

    America, love it or get the heck out. The civil war has been fought and you lost that one too!!!!!!

    • Syl

      If we love America’s constitution and it no longer protects us, where do we get out to? Communism is global now. America was everyone’s only hope and now it is gone.

      • Hedgehog

        Canada of course! We are not a communist country, socialist yes, communist no. Even our New Democrats couldn’t qualify as communists. We actually have a communist party that runs candidates in our federal elections. We have a Libertarian party, a Green party for the fanatic tree huggers, a Conservative party, a Liberal (boo,! hiss!) party, even a secessionist (separatist) party. Something for everyone. If you can’t find a party you like, start one. But, be warned it does get really, really cold up here in the winter and we have to work hard to keep warm. Many of our citizens are former citizens of the US.

      • eddie47d

        The US has a myriad of political parties too so why would it be any better in Canada. Canada is more accepting of immigrants (The French do give them trouble occasionally) LOL! … so that would rile a few Conservatives right off the bat. They have National Healthcare so if you are trying to speak to this choir that in it self would keep them away in droves. Then you have tough guy Capitalist at Birth who can’t stand the cold so I think that leaves Canada out as the new frontier for these secessionist folks.

    • NativeBlood

      You’re only upset because you don’t want anyone messing up your social security and medicare.

      • http://Personallibertydigest Roland

        Unless you just pulled your head out of the sand, Johnson messed with MY social security, not the govt. money, money I paid into. Dam right I’m worried!

    • eddie47d

      SLY;True communism is actually shrinking within the world and Crony Capitalism is rising. For better or for worse Corporatism is rearing its head including in China and Russia. Those who say communism is taking over America are full of gas and not the kind that we are fracking for.

      • Sol of Texas

        Ultimately, the struggle distills into oligarchies vs. democratic-republics. Crony-capitalism and socialist movements always transform into oligarchies and monarchies. These oligarchies sometimes transform into democratic-republics. And the cycle repeats as documented by the recorded history of mankind.

    • DaveH

      The Freedom Fighters will stay, Ron. You leave.

    • sw

      The Revolutionary war was fought against tyranny and we won that one.

  • Daniel

    I disagree. Every effort should be made to fight back against the fact that we have an illegal president occupying the oval office. The struggle has to be fought on multiple fronts including the petition effort.

    • Smilee

      And lost or losing on every front, garbage is garbage and meant to be tossed out as these have been. The only reality here is you are filled with hate

    • Texas Ride

      There is an illegal alien in the oval office and where are the American people! Hiding and hoping someone else will fix it! New flash: No one is going to fix things, America, it is up to the people that have enjoyed prosperity and freedom all these years. If real Americans want to keep it, they must fight for it…..once again.

      • Smilee

        The majority were voting for him and gave him four more years, only a handful believe he is an alien and are laughed at by the vast majority

      • Texas Ride

        Similee don’t try to have a serious thought, it doesn’t work for you.

        • Joe America

          Ignore “Smilee” he’s just smelly.

  • Tom Cook

    Chip,l think the petitions are a message to the foreigner in our White House that he is not as popular as he thinks–he is only popular with the anti-American scum who don’t feel loyalty to this country.

    • Paul Wells

      I respectfully disagree. I don’t think the poacher in the WH gives one whit about what anyone thinks, he’s on a mission….destroy American exceptional-ism as quickly as possible. I find it laughable that so many are taken in by his line of BS!

      • Bill Thomas

        When you have 95% of a group voting for Obama because of skin color and a large percentage of Hispanics voting for him for another reason, it’s pretty clear that the Demographics are working against Conservative minded individuals in this country. Don’t think you’ll see a true Conservative President anytime in the near future.

      • Paul Wells

        Bill, you are of course, correct, and this is what is spurring talks of succession. Many conservatives no longer feel they can get a representative government, when the masses are uneducated morons, and fail to see how they are part of the Liberal plantation!

      • http://gravatar.com/cbgard Carlucci

        “Paul Wells says:
        November 30, 2012 at 8:11 am

        I respectfully disagree. I don’t think the poacher in the WH gives one whit about what anyone thinks, he’s on a mission….destroy American exceptional-ism as quickly as possible. I find it laughable that so many are taken in by his line of BS!”

        They are taken in by Ovomit’s line of BS because we have morphed into a nation of people who either work for a living, or people on entitlements who vote for a living.

      • Kate8

        Carlucci – So true.

        The amusing thing is, it doesn’t matter who wins…whether Obama et al turn this country into third world Agenda 21 prison camp, or the good guys win and we resore our Republic… their “entitlements” are going to go away.

        The difference is, if Obama accomplishes his goals, those on the dole become dead weight, and we see historically what happens to those who are dependent on government when they gain absolute control (might I point out what Hitler did to the elderly, the infirm, the disabled and the impoverished….as well as the opposition).

        On the other hand, if the patriots win out, the useless will have the opportunity to find a means of supporting themselves, if they so choose. Otherwise, they can always mooch off their neighbors and relatives. At least they’ll be allowed to live.

  • Dagger

    Those who are signing these “petitions” are in for a jolt. The Obama regime may be using the names on these so-called petitions to gather a list of people who will be identified as traitors and terrorists. All those body bags and caskets that FEMA has been warehousing are there for a reason. Also, consider the fact that several federal agencies are training their own armies to deal with insurrections. This nation may be closer to a civil war than anyone realizes.

    • http://www.facebook.com/lumpy.rutherford.31 Lumpy Rutherford

      I thought those camps had been explained away as places for refugees from catastrophic events like Katrina. So what about those people on the east coast who STILL don’t have heat or electricity in the beginning of winter, a month after the event? How come they’ve not been transported to these taxpayer-funded havens? Could it be they ARE re-education camps?

      • eddie47d

        How can they be reeducation camps if no one is in them?

    • Capitalist at Birth

      FEMA is one of them along with Ameri Corps

    • http://yahoo gail jackson

      I really don’t think it matters because to socialist anyone who is intelligent or in any way seen as a threat is killed or thrown into prison, and with muslims anyone who is not a muslim is seen as an infidel. This Republic once worked because it had a moral majority based on biblical principals. This is no longer true of the majority so the decline will continue.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        I have been arguing with stupid people for fifty years about the totalitarian socialist creep that has been going on in this country for over 100 years. To no avail. They thought I was off the deep end. or had been hit in the head too many times. They still like to pretend that Obama has benign intentions. Ha Ha! The joke will be on them. I for one predicted all of this in 1998. No one would listen. It is time to get the hell out of Dodge. When my Father passes away, I will simply leave this country if I am not already murdered or in prison.

      • eddie47d

        Which country have you picked out Capitalist or is this strictly small talk for you?

      • Texas Ride

        The fiber that once held this country together is being destroyed. The country is being fragmented by the foreigners from different countries that are flooding into this country.
        They are taking the country by sheer numbers. They are mostly the poor, uneducated, and highly needy! They are not here to assimulate or become Americans. They are here to take the country, something they didn’t help build! They are being recruited by our own government, to help in the destruction. An intelligent, educated European with a skill to offer, cannot get into this country. Government only wants the “stupid and uneducated” those that are unable to think for themselves.

        When this country was 80% White, we were prosperous and there was a moral fiber that was shared. Everyone worked together and had goals of prosperity. Hard work was respected, morality was expected. This is what works!

        BTW has anyone noticed that government is becoming all blacks in any position of authority.
        Name me any country governed blacks where the people are prosperous and free

      • Smilee

        Texas Ride says:
        November 30, 2012 at 10:32 am

        When this country was 80% White, we were prosperous and there was a moral fiber that was shared. Everyone worked together and had goals of prosperity. Hard work was respected, morality was expected.

        WE GET THE MESSAGE YOU’RE A BIGOT AND A RACIST, IF EVERYONE WAS ALMOST ALL WHITE AGAIN THEN THINGS WOULD THEN BE HONKY DOREY AGAIN What a joke. We been flooding this country with immigrants for over 400 years and I believe before that there was no whites here so I guess at some time it was the whites flooding this country. YOUR MESSAGE IS LOUD AND CLEAR AND PURE BS

      • Kate8

        Texas Ride actually makes some very good points, and it was entirely predictable that one of the leftist trolls would bring up the R word.

        You cannot tell the truth in this country if it violates political correctness. You must lie, in order to preserve the feelings of the guilty.

        But that only matters when you are speaking of OTWs. OTWs can hurl all manner of hate and racism toward whites, and the libs rally ’round.

        How about we look and see how the Left has created this sense of entitlement among OTWs in this country. How about we see how they are, by implication by the left, made to appear incapable of speaking for themselves because they “need protection” against the evil white people. Is this not the ultimate racism and condescension?

        How about we restore equality to EVERYONE, regardless of skin color?

      • Texas Ride

        Smiley, answer the question….Name me one country that is governed by blacks where the people are prosperous and free! Just one!

        White Europeans built this country. No one else was smart enough to do it. What countries have lead the world, the European countries. What countries are third-world-world…Sorry, but that is the way it is… Wake me up when a black country becomes something other than a place with starving people, a dictator, mass murders, and poverty for all.

        • Smilee

          Your really hell bent on reinforcing your bigotry and racism, why not quit when you are ahead

    • Gib74

      When zero and his followers start trying too fill body bags, they better have a LOT more bags for themselves.

      Americans will NOT go quietly into the night.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        It will get ugly. I had never owned a fire arm until Nov. 8th 2008. I would estimate with my anecdotal observation and the articles I have read that there was at least a 30% increase of persons who never previously owned a fire arm purchasing them since that time. Get ready for mayhem.

      • GRusling

        You’re correct… There’s a very good reason why gun and ammo sales have gone through the roof for the last four years, and are still accelerating…

    • Karolyn

      Capitalist – You know nothing about AmeriCorps. Having been a member for almost two years I do know what it is. All AmeriCorps is is people paid a living expense by the government to assist nonprofits with their programs. AmeriCorps members do a lot of good in this country – I’m sure a lot more than most people posting here. FEMA is a totally different type of agency.

      • Kate8

        AmeriCorps is just another Leftist group. I don’t care how they try to cloak their agenda with “assistance” and good works, the real purpose is to further degrade and destroy America.

        They are using monies confiscated from taxpayers, who have no choice in how it is used. There is no reason to bring in immigrants from third world countries and offer them living money and money to set up businesses while Americans are left hungry and jobless.

        This is the kind of stuff that has to end. Thanks to the Left, we are a country divided along every possible line, in the name of “diversity” and “compassion”. The founders knew that in order to remain strong and united, we must have a common culture and shared values. You can’t have everyone playing by different rules and survive.

        The Left set about to destroy us using every means of divide and conquer. Not only has it increased our population density far faster than it would otherwise have been (as they now cry ‘overpopulation!’), but we are a nation of separate groups, some entitled, others (white American) not.

        Thanks a lot, you guys. You’ve brought us down from being the greatest nation on Earth, to being just another third-world banana republic. I suppose you feel completely justified. It’s really interesting how suicidal the Left is.

        • Joe America

          Ameri-Corpes, that’s what it should be called. It’s an organization that promotes communisim from within. Taxpayers are paying for their own destruction. This organization if writh with coruption and graft. It’s a boodoggle program for people who want to live on the government teet, period. It accomplishes nothing for the kids in the program, except to enhance their feelings of entitlement.

    • eddie47d

      Dagger: My original reply to you was deleted about 2 hours ago but I’m still sad that you think you have to live with so much unproven fear and theories.

  • Jeff

    For the past hundred years all we have done is lose ground to an ever increasing federal government. The battle is over…it’s time to succeed.

  • Jim

    Texas vs. White (1869) addressed whether states may secede from the United States.
    Anyone who feels that they must abandon this nation may leave; exodus is an option.
    Please note, however, that foreigners may be required to have a substantial amount of money to have resident alien status; the path to citizenship may be extensive.

    There is a lot of talk, mostly from those who are upset about election results. A similar point of view was taken by the left/so-called liberals (progressives) in 2000.

    • http://www.facebook.com/don.duncan.501 Don Duncan

      The implication of the requirement to pay for resident alien status is that every citizen is the property of the feds, and he can buy his freedom. I refute that. I was born free, but live under the constant threat from government. My suffering is the result of the majority delusion that security is achieved by renouncing sovereignty. Also, I suffer because there is a belief that what is immoral becomes moral when done by an authority figure.

      • amusedinil

        Don,

        There’s no exit tax unless you meet one of these criteria:
        :
        1. you have a net worth of US$ 2 million or more; OR

        2. you have an average net U.S. income tax liability of greater than US$ 139,000 (thereafter indexed for inflation; $145,000 for people expatriating in 2009) for the five year period prior to expatriation; OR

        3. you fail to certify that you have complied with all U.S. federal tax obligations for the preceding five years.

        Basically, unless you’re fairly rich, or haven’t paid your taxes, you’re literally “FREE” to go!

        Your “birth freedom” gave you one of the most precious gifts in the history of the world–American citizenship in the 20th century. If you think that’s not valuable, there are countries that will be glad to have you, and literally billions of people who would change places with you in a heartbeat.

        In America, we vote for our government. Whatever other rights we have (religion, bear arms, free speech, due process, etc.), our right to elect our government is the basis for the American way of life.

        And the guy who gets the most votes (subject to electoral college rules) becomes President.

        If you don’t love that part of America, I don’t understand what part of America you do love, and perhaps you should leave.

      • Texas Ride

        amuse, you amuse me. We don’t have legitimate elections, first off! Americans haven’t picked their presidents for decades and we sure didn’t pick the one in 08 or 2012. The fix was in before one vote was cast.

        And, you basically said that a person is FREE to go unless the government thinks you owe them money! How funny you are… If that is freedom in your mind, we are a great omaumau supporter.

  • Larry King

    Funny you use Goldwaters Presidential attempt as a high mark of conservatism. As i recall he was beaten soundly only the ultra Liberal Humphrey might have been beaten worse. Americans as a whole reject extremism whether on the left or right.And i agree the seperatism petitions are a waste of time.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Goldwater was not an extremist unless you are a Communist. Are you?

      • eddie47d

        Goldwater said “extremism is a virtue” so has your memory gone soft.

      • momo

        Your memory is the one that’s gone eddie, Goldwater said “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.”

      • eddie47d

        That makes extremism a virtue although I should not have used quotation marks. Thanks.

    • DaveH

      So expecting the Federal Government to abide by the Constitution which they (falsely) swear to uphold is “extremism” now, Larry?
      Only a morally deficient Progressive could make such a claim.

      • Flashy

        DaveH, last I heard, the SCOTUS decides what is in violation of the Constitution. Not you.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          They gave themselves that power. Since none of the three branches are allowed to take more power for themselves (all three illegally have though) if it null and void.

      • DaveH

        Help me out, Flashman. I can’t find where in the Constitution that the Supreme Court was given the Power of being the Final Arbiter of the Constitution?
        https://www.cato.org/constitution/constitution_en.html

      • Smilee

        DaveH says:
        November 30, 2012 at 11:08 am

        Help me out, Flashman. I can’t find where in the Constitution that the Supreme Court was given the Power of being the Final Arbiter of the Constitution?

        Madison v Marbury decided that about 200 years ago so Flashman is correct , you are two hundred years behind the times and clearly you have no idea what the Constitution is or does your reference for facts, as usual, is nothing more than a figment of your imagination and skewed thinking

      • Flashy

        Thanx Smilee..though it was highly amusing to have verified DaveH has so scant knowledge of our Constitution. Mises must not have had a catchy title for him to cut and paste …

      • TML

        Flashy says “…last I heard, the SCOTUS decides what is in violation of the Constitution. Not you.”

        Last I heard, the SCOTUS decisions are only interpretations of legislation and constitution, and such interpretations can only be referenced. They do not stand as law forever more.

        Smilee says “Madison v Marbury decided that about 200 years ago.”

        That is some strange reasoning you have Smilee. Do you honestly think that the Supreme Court can, in the judgment of a case, give itself final authority? The United States Constitution does not explicitly establish the power of judicial review. Rather, the power of judicial review is simply claimed to be inferred, by the Supreme Court no less, from the structure, provisions, and history of the Constitution. We can easily reference the debates on judicial review to find that Supreme Court was never meant to have a final say on those matters as if they were law, because a judgment of Constitutionality could be incorrect, and thus should not stand as law… otherwise, it would have effectively made the Court a legislating body by mere twists of interpretation.

        When the Court ruled secession unconstitutional (immediately following the Civil War to cover Lincolns ass, no less) that judgment was incorrect, and not binding because it failed to address the simple structure of the Constitution which is; the Constitution only delegates powers to the United States Federal Government. It doesn’t grant rights to the States or to the people. Therefore because secession, nor even how a state could go about secession, is never mentioned in the Constitution, it is NOT a power delegated to the United States by the Constitution, and thus reserved for the States and the people unilaterally. And that is the only logical and reasonable judgment the Court could rightfully give, else their judgment itself subverts the Constitution.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          Exactly! Awesome and knowledgeable comment!

        • Smilee

          You can argue all you want that you are smarter than the Supreme Court Justices but the simple fact is they have the power to determine and define the Constitution’s meaning and only them your opinion differs from that meaning absolutly nothing and your words become by virtue of the courts rulings pure malarkey and yet you are so arrogant as to say you know better than them, Stuff your BS

      • Kate8

        Yes, excellent comment. How comical that Flush uses a Supreme Court decision to prove that the Supreme Court is the final arbitor.

        And how willing the Left is to bow to the SCOTUS without question. No wonder we’re in such a mess.

        Hey, Fush. WE the People are the final arbitors in America. Our Consitution declares that government is derived from the consent of the governed. If you prefer slavery in order to get handouts, then you are in for a real sad time when these clowns get kicked out.

      • TML

        You can argue all you want that you are smarter than the Supreme Court Justices but the simple fact is they have the power to determine and define the Constitution’s meaning and only them your opinion differs from that meaning absolutly nothing and your words become by virtue of the courts rulings pure malarkey and yet you are so arrogant as to say you know better than them, Stuff your BS

        Not just me… as I pointed out we can easily reference debates on the doctrine of judicial review. In fact, Jefferson, one of the most prominant founders, objected to this doctrine at every turn. Obviously if you support such doctrine then you agree that any law contrary to the Constitution is void. Under that same reasoning, any court judgement contrary to the Consitution is also void. To say that the Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of all Consitutional questions, effectively and voluntarily allows the court (despotically for no other reason than the courts says so) to act as an oligarchy in an office for life which is not even responsible, as the other functionaries are, to elective control. In addition, your opinion gives on of the three branches (which were meant to have equal checks and balances on each other) the power to prescribe rules to the other two based only on their interpretation. The simple fact, Smilee, is that the Constitution erected no such tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves. A Supreme Court saying it has power over the other two is a usurpation of the Constitution the same as their judgment on secession, and by the same logic that presumes to allow them that authority (as pointed out above), those judgements are also void. So stricktly speaking, it is your opinion of the matter that means absolutely nothing and your words by virtue of the Consitution are pure ‘malarkey’. The American people are simply letting them get away with it.

      • Smilee

        TML says:
        December 1, 2012 at 5:25 pm

        Madison v Marbury settled it and it has been settled law for over 200 years and the actual practice since then. Your whole post is totally inaccurate and irrelevant as the court counts you do not and all you have succeeded in doing it reveal for all to see how ignorant and stupid you are. Try as you might with words you can change nothing as you and your position have not one iota of power to do so, your one huge joke.

      • DaveH

        The only “jokes” here, Sleepee, are you and Flashman.
        The Supreme Court is a branch of the Federal Government, and no States would have signed on to the Constitution if they knew that the Supreme Court would have the final say about Constitutionality. It would be like the Fox guarding the Hen House — Something only ignorant Liberal Progressive Followers could swallow.
        Does anybody with any sense believe that our Freedom-Loving Founders would have allowed a bunch of unelected officials, who belong to the Federal Government gang, to be the Final Arbiters of Constitutionality?
        http://mises.org/daily/3185

        • Smilee

          First of all you have no way of knowing what the states would have done, and since Marbury v Madison over two hundred years ago this has been the role of the supreme court and no attempts to amend the Constitution to change it have since occurred so it is the law of the land since then and remains so today and nothing you say or do can change that. You are entitled to your opinion even when it is wrong and you are here.

      • TML

        Smilee says “Madison v Marbury settled it and it has been settled law for over 200 years…”

        And the point is… who settled it? Certainly not the American people, or even Congress, nor even the President. As I said, it’s not my authority. It is a simple fact that the Constitution erected no such tribunal. Whether it has been practiced over the years is merely an appeal to tradition, not any kind of law or the land, and therefore irrelevant to the discussion. The interesting thing to me is, you know you have lost the argument, but continue to cling to such circular reasoning by claiming the Supreme Court has final authoprity on Constitutional question merely becaue they say so…. even putting the judgement of a court above the Constitution itself.

        • Smilee

          Weather you consider it your authority or not is totally irrelevant to reality, it is the authority in law and it is binding even on you even if you do not admit it. You live in a dream world totally devoid of reality. You are a fool!!!

      • TML

        I’m well aware that many ignorant people such as yourself accept the fallicious reasoning you present, to allow such despotism to continue. But your only proving my point by espousing the idea that such ruling by the judicial branch stands as law rather than the law itself. The authority which you say is irrelevant is called the Constitution, the law of the land, and there is no question or argument even by those like you that the Constituion does not explicitly erect the tribunal you relish, nor give the power of judicial review

    • Smilee

      Humphey vs Nixion was one of the closest elections we had, were did you get the idea that he lost by a landslide???????????

  • http://yahoo gail jackson

    In a depressed mood very early one morning I signed the secession petition for Florida assuming it was just a way to vent. No one is taking it seriously because it is not logical.

    • mrf

      Hi Gail,

      I hope you’re feeling a bit better than when you posted. Florida’s state game during the 2000 election and then all their arguing of moving primary dates has moved both parties to treat Florida more as a necessary liability rather than a desired ally. in 2000 ALL the votes should have been counted & whoever one should have one–I would have voted for Bradley or McCain if either made it through the prmaries before either Gore or (that) Bush. I’d blame the A, Gore staffers & interns for telling busloads of voters to vote for the second person instead of realizing the 2nd (down) was P. Buchannan not A. Gore (he was 2nd reading left to right when the ballot was opened). Those that struggled with reading or were old and realized in the booth might have changd their vote–that’s why the total ballot didn’t make sense but don’t think those staffers are gonna’ call up and say “Hey Al, I just messed up Florida…you didn’t need Florida did you?” Of course they didn’t its not easier to blame others and claiming fraud gave them an opportunity to find new work without acknowledging their incompetence. Just be thankful most of that campaign leadership are now talking heads on talk shows making silly chatter & likely polarizing more voters.

      But between the that error and the way the Florida Sec of Statemanaged the issue, the way the Florida courts was stopped and the party primary games Florida has moved from a key focus state to one of irrelevancy–it wasn’t needed even considered a needed state for the Democrats in 2008 or 2012–And Romney’s Republican strategy hoped for it but had contiginecy strategies to get elected.

      So you don’t need to secede–your state government has made your state politically irrelevant in the election cycle and that takes influence from your (federal) Senators and Representatives–that’s why a winner was picked and even the media didn’t care if Florida was still counting balliots for another day or two after all the other basic counts were complete–Florida chose to move toward a path of irrelevance for over a decade and did it no different than teenger storming to their bedroom when they can’t take the family car thinks slamming the door will get his or her parent to apologize, ask for forgiveness, rush down wash, wax and fill the gas tank, give $20 for spending cash and say have a good night I don’t need the car for the whole weekend–most teenagers figure it after once or twice–Florida’s donce it for 4 elections in a row. And the sad thing it could have been a descion-maker if they chose to act more like a state than a seperate entity.

  • Fan

    I agree with Chip on this one. I thought it earlier but I am not as verbally fluent as you are Chip. Keep up the good work.

  • dusterdog

    I see Chip Wood lives in a dream land.Thinking we will ever see things corrected by our vote.Since they count the votes I can only expect that the vote will always reflect the direction they want to take the country.As its not the voter that is important,its the vote counter that is.

    • amusedinil

      Votes count in America. If you’ve found a country that’s got a better way to choose leaders, please go there now.

      Better yet, come forward with your fraud accusations and real evidence of voter fraud. There’s a cell phone camera in almost every pocket of this country, and the evidence of widespread fraud is just not there….unless you want to google “karl rove voter fraud”

      • DaveH

        How do you detect voter fraud with a cell-phone?

      • Kate8

        amusedinil – You want evidence of voter fraud? Didn’t you look at any of the articles and videos showing just that, all over the country?

        Surely you are kidding. Or maybe you are just another person who just decides what’s true and not true according to what you want to be true, and never seek out any other possibilities. Or even look at them when they are placed before you.

        I am forever amazed at how many Americans refuse to look outside of their little box. How are we ever going to pull this thing out when so many won’t even take a look at what we’re up against? You cannot set things right if you refuse to see what’s wrong.

  • Right Brain Thinker

    Chip!!! Shhhhhhh! Quiet! It is a GOOD thing that so many folks are chasing their tails on secession. Keeps them busy playing in a sandbox over to the side of the real world. And that keeps them from getting in the way of the Real Patriots and The Real Americans who are working to hold the country together rather than destroy it.

    It is also a GOOD thing that you have written this article—it will draw the “sand box” lot onto this thread where they can chase their tails some more. Good work! And it doesn’t look as if much of it was plagiarized.

    PS to Flashy Shhhhh to you too. A look at the responses so far shows where this thread is likely to go. Don’t distract them from their circular firing squad by giving them a “thinking” comment to shoot at instead.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Your comments are stupid and interfere with serious discourse. You and the rest of your allies should be banned from this site. If I wanted totalitarian socialist diatribe I would turn on the television.

    • DaveH

      More ad hominem remarks from the useless eater RBT.
      Do you ever have anything useful to say, RBT?
      Such is typical of the childish Liberal Progressives. You make the NeoCon Progressives look intelligent, RBT.

    • Flashy

      Awwww c’mon RBT..can’t i just send them to their assigned FEMA camps and take all their money?

      • DaveH

        What do you know? Flashman is capable of being honest once in a while.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Sure you can, Flashman, except that in Dave’s case it will be his parents money that you’re taking, since he is unemployable because of his mental deficits, lives in their basement, and sponges off them.

        And “Should Have Been Capped At Birth” demonstrates that he is a PATRIOT and a REAL ‘MURICAN by showing his lack of understanding of the First Amendment. Ban “US” from the site—-all FIVE of us? There are so few of us that we really don’t get in the way of the circular firing squad too much, Cap. Learn to live with it.

        Speaking of FEMA camps, the biggest one is in Alaska, with room for 2 MILLION prisoners, no less, And Cap said in another comment that Alaska was the only safe place left? DUHHHH!!

        And did I call it about how crowded this sandbox would get? I’m leaving this thread now and not returning. I have actually found a thread on PLD where some intelligent discourse is going on and will spend my time there (or until the stooges appear, anyway).

      • DaveH

        RBT says — “I have actually found a thread on PLD where some intelligent discourse is going on”.
        They aren’t allowing you to comment?

    • david imlay

      Real World RBT? More of an illusion to me. Are you a follower of someone else’s dream? If you don’t have a plan of your own, then you must be a slave to someone else then and THEIR PLAN. As long as you let their plan override your plan, then your plan must not be solid and worth following. That’s ok you can continue to live in a dream world created by someone else. No skin off of my teeth or hiney for that matter.

      All of this chatter about following someone else’s plan (US Constitution – I don’t see your signature on it) is just a scapegoat for not taking responsibility and creating your own plan that would work better FOR YOU!

  • GB

    I hate to say it but anyone dumb enough to sign one of these petitions will get their name on a list of people to be investigated by the gestapo and any petition signer will most likely be executed by said gestapo shortly after [racist reference removed] is reinstalled as Der Furer.

    • Karolyn

      Uh, did you not read where the article states that the people did not even use last names? Of course, your premise is ridiculous anyway. I am surprised your racist slur on the President went past the moderator. Possibly because you spelled it wrong.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Have you seen any of the petitions. They asked for full name physical address and e-mail address. Where are you getting your information? From a cereal box or just somebodies imagination?

      • Capitalist at Birth

        At least the petition I saw, and did not sign because of where the information went.

      • http://yahoo bob peters

        Karolyn,how long have you been a communist????

      • eddie47d

        Leave it to Bob Peters to endorse racist slurs or didn’t you think we’d notice? .

      • Karolyn

        Capitalist – Just going by what was in the article. I see the racist comment was finally removed.

  • http://Liberty Tony

    To Everyone: All i have to say to this article is right on!! It’s about time rational conservatives quell this foolishness, for all it does is distract from the real issues at hand. Again good article. TGIF!!

    • http://yahoo bob peters

      speak for yourself commie..

      • http://liberty Tony

        To Mr. Peters: You see, dumb statements like that is the reason why conservatives are being laughed at. Now, konck it off and get lost so the GOP can get back to policy that made them effective in 20-30 yrs ago. Granted, times have changed since then but ideas still can work when applied correctly. TGIF!!

      • DaveH

        Effective in what, Tony, feathering their own nests and those of their Crony Capitalists? The Republican Party was founded in 1854 on a platform of Mercantilism and Big Government. And they’ve been growing the Federal Government ever since, in spite of their stated platform of “small government”.
        http://mises.org/daily/3098

    • david imlay

      Tony are you a follower or a leader? If you’re a follower then someone else’s plan MUST be better than your own plan.

      You are obviously uninformed about Sovereignty and being the “DECIDER”. I already have officials worrying about me walking into any of their courtrooms. I could care less about their agendas. I have my own agenda and that is to thoroughly protect my a$$ no matter what they say. They will have to contend with a recognized Treaty and make remedy for Trespass! I really don’t care about their official agendas as their human mind makes the choices to trespass and not the paperwork. The paperwork has no voice until a human speaks for it! Then the human has committed the crime! Crossing a line ( or border, and all contracts in writing have borders) where they have no authority. That is Trespass!

  • Keith Clark

    We know it will never lead to any action by this White House. It’s a protest against a Big Government that is going further every day into Communism while the rest of the world, including Russia, is running away from that as fast as they can. It gives those that sign their checks on the front notification to the Federal Government that nothing has changed, we are still here and we are not going to stand by like sheep as our Country continues to worship Karl Marx. This is not over. This is the beginning of the fight.

    • GRusling

      In my opinion, the petitions, while directed to the White House, are really a wake-up call to our “State” governments. They created the federal monstrosity and they can do away with it by refusing to comply with Washington dictates. It can be just that simple if our individual States refuse to be “bribed” with federal money and demand that our federal constitution be strictly adhered to…

      • GRusling

        Contact your STATE government and make that demand…

  • Bob

    “…redouble our efforts…”. What does that mean? Have we already doubled our efforts and now need to double them again? Just askin”.

  • John B. Waring

    Instead of Secession get your State to properly use Nullification against Unconstitutional laws such as Obamacare. To my understanding it can be used against the Unconstitutional rulings of Supreme Court Decisions as well.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      It is much easier to communicate directly with your state Senator and Representative and to influence their actions. I have been espousing this to all of my contacts for at least 30 years. It will take time and diligence to accomplish the end goal.

  • Howard

    Well Chip, it was those recalcitrant founding fathers who insisted on the right of redress and right of petition. Those darn fools forgot to make secession an exception

  • braindeadus

    All hail the great country of Texas. We can take care of are on don’t tread on Texas.

  • dan

    Ah…a trip down memory lane : the Goldwater years….a candidate even the John Birch Society could agree upon.It looks as if the SDS (socialist students for a democratic society) and Rainbow People (dirty hippies )had the better strategy,I.E. overwhelm instead of reform. Secede and protest all you care to….
    THEY won the “civil’war…or at least,their bankers/financiers did.
    The only resistance is underground…guerrilla ,if you will. Appealing to the better nature of tyrants
    works about as well as trying to battle superior forces head on.

    • Larry King

      Dan i was a strong supporter of Barry Goldwater and met him once and lived in Phoenix when he ran. What guaranteed his defeat was the Democrat commercial showing the little girl setting in a field picking flowers and a Nuclear bom exploding. Barry was only presented by the media and even the Rockafeller Republicans as a extremist which he was not. Actually if you compared his beliefs to Bob livingstons he would be considered a Moderate. I was very dissappointed that in his later years after remarrying that his views became very Liberal.

      • dan

        hahahaa….I forgot the scary propaganda. A masterful stroke by those “behind the curtain’.
        I was too young to be involved back then…but even a child can tell when they’re being lied to.

  • William Harrington

    I agree that the secession movement will fail but I also believe that , with this many people who already feel threatened by the results of the past election, the effort could be channeled toward a constitutional amendment. I believe the request for this are done by the states which are more susceptible to the petition influence.

    • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

      Nullification by the individual states is the way to go. Americans need to work on “Constitutionalizing” their state govts.

    • david imlay

      WR are you not a supporter of the secessionist movement? With attitudes like that, it is a wonder any movement would be successful. The 1st Amendment guarantees the right to secession.

      Think about it. Secession is the voluntary removal of a people from an inferior government and forming a new government, with new laws signed by all who abide by them, and appointing a leader amongst all the signers or deciders or Sovereigns. Isn’t that what secession is?

      Doesn’t the Declaration of Independence and/or the Constitution guarantee this for the people in its writings? For those who are opposed to a government that becomes oppressive and tyrannical, for the people to throw off that government, to adjust or abolish those laws and/or government and start anew?

      That is what I see secession as!

  • John Hasse

    Most folks seem to be missing the point. To establish freedom we must limit control. Unfortunately the media is soundly ‘statist’ and the fools follow them. Perhaps the various petitions to secede will cause some more people to realize that the ‘clowns in Washington’ are the problem. If so, we are one step closer to a rational approach to the problem. Government is not reason, it is force. It is not the solution, it is the problem.

  • http://www.poconoshooting.com Pocono Shooting

    It does not matter if it succeeds or not. It is a very sharp thorn in the side of the Federal Government. I don’t think their has ever been a more embarrassing petition then this one for the Federal Govt. It most certainly empowers and strengthens the minority of politicians that oppose big government.

    Anything the discredits and weakens Federal Tyranny is a good thing.

  • Steve Shute

    Chip, I wholeheartedly agree with your premise. Our time and treasure would best be utilized working with our Patriot local and state legislators to put up as many roadblocks as possible between our respective State capitols and Gomorrah on the Potomac, a/k/a Washington, DC.

    In short, we must pursue NULLIFICATION… not secession.

    • david imlay

      Steve I see a problem with utilizing our Reps and Senators. When they create laws, do they create those laws exactly how the people want it? Not exactly. The people are asked to compromise by those legislators, lobbyists, and the like, and then they compose the wording as they would have them written themselves. The wording of the people are eroded by the compromise imposed on them to benefit the legislators of the loopholes created by those writers. The wording is so subtle and covert that even the people do not even see it.

      The people themselves must write their own laws and see to it those laws are passed exactly as they sent them to the floor of those houses.

  • jColes

    Secessioin, especially peaceful secession won’t happen…but it might well be a moot point as the course the Obama (mis)-administration has set shall drive the ship of state straight into the iceberg called ‘collapse.’
    When the government runs out of our money everything will implode and it won’t be a pretty sight to see…but we can minimize the pain by talking with trusted Conservative state legislators and encouraging them to create ‘continuity of governance’ compacts with other ‘Red State’ governments that kick-in when the central government collapses.
    The concept is simple: when the ship’s rudder is broken or the helmsman has lost his mind and won’t steer around the danger zone, you make sure there are lifeboats available and trained ‘crewmen’ are on-deck to get people into them quickly.
    The ship will still go down and some people will be lost in the catastrophe, but most of the passengers can survive the ordeal, albeit with considerable discomfort…but they’ll survive.

    • GRusling

      Right on! This is the proper approach to the problem…

    • BarbJ

      That is an excellant proposition! How do we do this or check into any provisional governancy our state may already have going?

      • jColes

        The way I did it was to have lunch with my district representative to the Alabama House and our state Senator…I’ve been politically active and helped both to win election/re-election but I don’t that kind of deep personal connection is necessary…just being a constitutent should be enough for any citizen to get a state representative’s ear.
        I told them of my concerns and suggested exactly to them what I wrote here … they are both Conservatives first and Republicans second and they know that I’m not a crank or easily spooked…when you make your case, be professional, confident, optimistic about a future that becomes American Republic 2.0 — with the direct implication that the new republic be based on what I call ‘Constitution 1.0′ …
        To my knowledge there are no state-to-state continuity of governance compacts in existence as yet, but both of these very bright men said they’d take a hard look at the concept and see what could be done without involving the Federal bureaucracy.
        That’s the first personal step to take…the second is to formulate a communications plan then begin talking-up the idea to your Conservative friends…mature your ideas…then begin a program of communicating with the entire R-group within your legislature and encouraging your like-minded friends to do likewise…
        …and if you have friends in other states, encourage them…invite their ideas and further mature the idea…give them the ‘ammo’ they need to work with their legislatures…
        Growing this idea shouldn’t be hard…few state governments like the intrusion of the Federal monster into their business…we can make this preparatory process work…

  • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

    I think that many people see this as a form of protest and not really expecting much from it. Just as in pre-Revolution days, when the citizens addressed the king of England for relief in overburdoning taxes did, this is just another step towards outright rebellion if there is no redress of the issues.

  • John R. Howell

    If so many people and states say they want to secceed from the union because of Obama and his socialist agenda, then how did he win the election? Answer: Voter fraud! And it will get worse. The media is already talking daily about a third term for Obama, even though it is prohibited by the 22nd amendment to the US Constitution. But then, Obama
    and his socialist minions simply ignore the constitution anyway. Obama has a savage contempt for this country and its good people. He will take the presidency for life, and his enemies will be tortured and killed. John R. Howell

    • dan

      FRAUD….plain and simple. Let the FBI continue it’s investigation and hope that their are enough Patriots left to do something about it. Only 10% fought for freedom from the tyrant , King George.

      • Vigilant

        Good luck with that. The FBI reports to the Attorney General.

      • david imlay

        The FBI may report to the Attorney General, but the Attorney General reports to the CEO of the Corporation = OBAMA

    • eddie47d

      You howl to much John! There will not be a third term for Obama and if it is being said it is coming from you and right wing talking heads. I’m beginning to think there is an out of touch “media” and its not the mainstream media.

    • Linda 13

      Does anyone Know about the 12th Amendment Article II? We can get obama out of office before he gets sworn in. We Need the Red States to get this done. Not to vote their electors. It needs 2/3 of the Red states to do this. And as for the secession of the states, it is that or live with obama. If enough Red states do this, then we have a chance of forming our own Union & Military and obama has screwed the military I am sure alot of them would be happy to join us and defend. If we had all The Red states in the middle of the US we would We would have jobs from the pipe line. And alot of this state have refineries. We could have a toll road for the east & west to drive through and that would be money for fixing our roads. I believe there is a way this could be done We could get Romney to work on all the money part of it. Each state could keep their Gov.and senators and we can keep the constitution sense obama is throwing it under the bus. We don’t need obamas permission the leave the Union. WE HAVE STAND UP FOR FREEDOM

      • Smilee

        It is you who just proved that conservatives are all for voter fraud, you can enjoy the dream but beyond that you are a helpless as a prisoner in chains to do anything

      • BR549

        Linda13 wrote: “Does anyone Know about the 12th Amendment Article II?”

        Part of that was superseded by the 20th Amendment, Sec 3, but your point is well taken.

        The problem, however, is that under the Rothschild imposed de facto government, all this legal and legislative detail is but a facade ……. for as long as they can maintain the facade. While you and I are thinking that everything is taking place according to some historical rule book, past presidents have been operating over and above the confines of the Constitution, and just wait to see what they try to pull on us next.

        They are just waiting to see how much of the economy they can eviscerate before the citizens find out that their once sovereign du jure government had been replaced 150 years ago.

        So, even if the 12th, Art 2 does wind up being utilized, it would force the PTB to show their hand and totally ignore the new electoral college results. THAT would raise far too many eyebrows, so, in the meantime, Romney will NOT contest the election because he has been instructed not to by the same power elite. It has nothing to do with fair or legal.

  • NOELRATNER

    NEVER TRUST A MAN WHO SHAKES YOUR WITH RIGHT HAND AND KEEPS HIS HAND IN POCKET

  • Larry King

    You are aware or maybe not that Texas is a donor state as it only receives 94 cents back for every dollar it sends to the federal government.

  • http://aol.com Chris H

    Here’s a better idea, take a lesson from these citizens;
    Lets look to Iceland and the Icelandic revolution:

    This is a summary of the facts:

    2008. The main bank of the country is nationalized.
    The Krona, the currency of Iceland devaluates and the stock market stops. The country is in bankruptcy
    2008. The citizens protest in front of parliament and manage to get new elections that make the resignation of the prime minister and his whole government.
    The country is in bad economic situation.
    A law proposes paying back the debt to Great Britain and Holland through the payment of 3,500 million euros, which will be paid by the people of Iceland monthly during the next 15 years, with a 5.5% interest. The people say NO WAY call for and get-
    resignation of the whole government
    -nationalization of the bank.
    -referendum so that the people can decide over the economic decisions.
    -incarcerating the responsible parties
    -rewriting of the constitution by its people

    Have we been informed of this through the media?
    Has any political program in radio or TV commented on this?
    No! The Icelandic people have been able to show that there is a way to beat the system and has given a democracy lesson to the world.
    Fav

  • JAS

    We have lost the war in the education system, in the media, and in our government.
    It is time for a fresh start, where God is not a bad word, where family means two parents create, and raise those children. They can spank them without facing them being taken away by the government. It means discipline, not abuse.

    Where winning, losing, living and dying are a part of life and we don’t need a grief counselor to deal with it.

    Where the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are followed and where judges follow the thenm instead of legislate in spite of it.

    Where government is limited in it’s scope. Where legislators have to abide by the same laws they are created and limited in their terms and tenure. It is not a career.
    Where government is not the “safety net” for every lazy slug who feels it is the government’s responsibility for their irresponsible behavior.

    Where the police solve real crimes and arrest real criminals and there is real punishment and ANYONE who hurts children or the elderly are dealt with severely.

    Where profit and prosperity and wealth are not BAD words, but goals to be achieved.

    Where EVERYONE plays by the same set of rules. ALL PEOPLE ARE EQUAL!

    Where immigration means you come here LEGALLY, and you are deported if you don’t.

    Where schools teach fundamentals, like READING, MATH, HISTORY(true history, not a liberal revision), SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, and realize we need carpenters, bricklayers, machinists, mechanics, truck drivers, plumbers, electricians just as much as we need business and industry and college isn’t for everyone and they are not experiments in social engineering.

    Where we produce our own energy.
    Where we cherish our environment through reasoned conservation, not radical environmentalism.

    Where compromise means BOTH sides give in and absorb some of the pain.
    Where disagreeing with someone is NOT HATE SPEECH, it’s FREE SPEECH.

    This is just a start. If you think this can be achieved, NOW, HERE, in this USA, fine, if not, secession sounds pretty good, since this is what 50% of Americans want.
    Let the other 50% who think government is the savior, mommy, daddy, nanny, babysitter, friend, lover, grandma, grandpa, teacher and provider from the womb to the tomb have the society we now have. AND LET THEM DO IT ON THEIR OWN DIME.

    How long do you think it would last before they try to come and take ours, AGAIN?

    We are tired and we have had enough. God and our founding fathers gave us the greatest country ever created and since the 60′s generation, we have given in to every lust, greed, and desire and the wreckage of our nation is now the evidence of that behavior.

    Every great empire has only every lasted approximately 200 years.
    The USA is at 236 years and the similarities of us to them is remarkably similar.

    • dan

      …it made me feel better just reading that. PC (political correctness) is just communism by
      another name. Equal opportunity under the same rules ,not equal outcome under despotism.

    • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

      The only way that will happen is thru civil war and/or a coup de etat.

    • Paul Wells

      Really like all that you said JAS. Kicking God out of schools and government buildings was the beginning of the end. Somewhere in that time frame, it become okay to be a moocher, and a no-good-nik ward of the state, instead of an embarrassment and a shame.. That is when we lost our way!

    • Fay

      Thank You well said

  • BERNADINE

    tell who to black the bill they vote to have the UN to take over
    and didtroy this country. On case any of you really think about it.
    bill and hillery are also in volvedhook line and sinker. if obamas out you all will
    vote hilley in right. would be same thing as obama. maybe worse. the bible state’s
    womens place taking care of family, men’s place to prtect the family. right???
    today women scream discrimination i can do a better job. but walla women in government
    and the army.and look what a screaning mess of women. that are the one in EPA to save the earth animal right paluting are drinking water with to much floide that distroys teeth
    this green movement. just what in hell is green about it??? acers and acers of furtile ground covered with solar panels and turbines. Instead of crops for food.
    food shortage. yes . cheep heating and cooling bill sky rocket. food sky rockets
    no food in store. people starving.screaming for obortion and birth control. does americans
    really want this crape of [expletive deleted] and believe. this will save the world. solar and turbines to
    work need the sun and wind 24/7. so come on women stop screaming and read up
    on WHAT GOD’S PLAN IS FOR PEACE AND HAPPYNESS. WOMEN IN GOVERNMENT.
    NEEDS TO BE DENIED. AND OUR MEN NEED TO BECOME STRONG MEN AGAIN.
    I worked all my working years along side of men.itreated them with respect and i was treated with respect from them. animals are animals not humans. and need to be treated as such.. donot abuse them but take care of.them. feed lot not good but farms that raise them for food and make a living with the whole family pitching is a good life.children need to learn to work along side of thier parents. to become people that will work.if not taught to work young they will never learn good work habits. OBUMMERS PARENTS taught him hate from the beging. blacks hate whites but want to turn whites black by getting white women pregnate but donot want the responsablitys.donot really want any thing to do with the half breed they produce. so children like OBUMMER are looked down on. OBUMMER
    is one oof those children. that is no excuse for him to lie cheat andsteal. He should have tried to better him self. and it is to bad because he ding the right by teaching his daughter
    right from wrong. neather are thier mother. thier haterid is thier hatred. never ends.
    God bless you all.

  • TScott

    Concerning secession: Who ever came up with the idea that we have to request permission from the federal government? Did they think the feds will reply “okay, go ahead, it’s okay for your state to leave the union”? I believe this process doesn’t require ANY kind of permission from the feds!

    • eddie47d

      You would need “permission” from the people of each said State or at least the majority within each Statehouse chamber who represents the people. If a state has 5 million people and only 100,000 sign a petition then what about all the others who live there? Either way you’d have to have a majority percentage. Unless you want an absolute insurrection and a bloody take over. Then you would be the one forcing your ideas on others.

    • Karolyn

      I thought you guys were all about the Constitution.

      • DaveH

        Where in the Constitution is secession banned, Karolyn?

      • DaveH

        And even if it were, please explain to us why a Contract signed by people over 200 years ago should be binding on us?

      • Right Brain Thinker

        I said in another comment that I was leaving this thread but I continued scrolling and saw these two comments from DaveH and had to pause on the way out the door..

        I congratulate Karolyn on winning the prize for getting Dave to make THE TWO MOST INSANE CONSECUTIVE COMMENTS EVER SEEN ON THIS SITE. Into the record books with this exchange.

        (Dave must really have the hots for Karolyn if he is going to such lengths to get her attention and impress her. Be nice to him because you’re a nice person, Karolyn, but DON’T encourage him. If you do, you’ll regret it)

      • Flashy

        DaveH …. In response to your one inane question about the Constitution and secession, try reading. I’ll suggest you read and re-read Chase’s majority opinion in Texas v. White.

        As for your comment concerning a 200 year old document…I wonder how many would agree it means nothing and should be tossed.

        Is there a Mises link on this?

      • eddie47d

        That first question was explained by Deerinwater later on Dave H. *** I want EVERYONE to read your second reply for that contradicts everything that most Conservatives say they stand for.

      • DaveH

        No, Flashman. That wasn’t an answer. I asked “Where in the Constitution is secession banned, Karolyn?”.
        Here I’ll make it easy for you:
        https://www.cato.org/constitution/constitution_en.html

        As for the rest of you children, I think recess is over.

  • Sherry

    Give me a break! “Putting money into better things”? You sound just like the greedy liberals who want states to pay before leaving! Please don’t blow smoke up our butts by saying that we have all this work to do to “fix” things in this country because, if we had any idea how to handle the liberals and the problems they cause us, they wouldn’t have been able to have done this much damage in the first place! Saying “save your money to fight!” is like closing the barn door after the horse got out! People are upset and afraid and rightfully so and the only way to fix this is a mass secession. This country is already divided, but the problem is that enemies are living together in the same states. Let the south and north go back to governing their own.

  • scared

    We might all wasn’t to watch what the UN is up to. Internet control, small arms treaty, agenda 21, control of the disabled to name a few. All this can circumvent our laws. Not much at all on the news about all of this either.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

      Please remember under our LEGITIMATE government, the US Constitution Clause 2 of Article VI (of the ORIGINAL Constitution)
      “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”

      Notice that all treaties to be legal MUST “be made in Pursuance thereof”. Just because Obama, or Bush, or Clinton, or anyone else does it does NOT make it legal. Yes, there are many precedents to this proving the point.

      Yes, I know that illegal “laws, executive orders (all are illegal because ONLY congress can write legislature and there is no time limit where it loses it’s illegal status), bills, etc are enforced. But most of those who are doing the enforcing are ingnorant of our government, and their role in it (deliberately dumbed down). They do not realize (as many in Germany didn’t when they “just followed orders or “just did their job as their bosses required) that it still makes them criminals and able to be arrested and held accountable for their actions. Remember ignorance is no defense.

      Treaties, etc – these show that what this administration is trying to do with the UN / NATo is treason; not legal under OUR laws.
      Reid v. Covert, 354 U.S. 1, 18 (1957), the United States Supreme Court held:
      There is nothing in [the Constitution’s text] which intimates that treaties and laws enacted pursuant to them do not have to comply with the provisions of the Constitution. Nor is there anything in the debates which accompanied the drafting and ratification of the Constitution which even suggests such a result.

      Geofroy v. Riggs, 133 U.S. 258, 267 (1890), the Supreme Court of the United States held: The treaty power, as expressed in the Constitution, is in terms unlimited except by those restraints which are found in that instrument against the action of the government or of its departments, and those arising from the nature of the government itself and of that of the States. It would not be contended that it extends so far as to authorize what the Constitution forbids, or a change in the character of the government, or in that of one of the States, or a cession of any portion of the territory of the latter, without its consent.

      November 19, 1919, in Section II of his Reservations with Regard to Ratification of the Versailles Treaty, to preserve the balance of power established by the United States Constitution from executive usurpation, Senator Henry Cabot Lodge resolved as follows: The United States assumes no obligation to preserve the territorial integrity or political independence of any other country or to interfere in controversies between nations – whether members of the League or not – under the provisions of Article 10, or to employ the military or naval forces of the United States under any article of the treaty for any purpose, unless in any particular case the Congress, which, under the Constitution, has the sole power to declare war or authorize the employment of the military or naval forces of the United States, shall by act or joint resolution so provide.

      In the dissent in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 542 U.S. 507 (2004), Justices John Paul Stevens and Antonin Scalia recognized the “Founders’ general distrust of military power lodged with the President, including the authority to commence war:
      No fewer than 10 issues of the Federalist were devoted in whole or part to allaying fears of oppression from the proposed Constitution’s authorization of standing armies in peacetime. Many safeguards in the Constitution reflect these concerns. Congress’s authority “[t]o raise and support Armies” was hedged with the proviso that “no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years.” U.S. Const., Art. 1, §8, cl. 12. Except for the actual command of military forces, all authorization for their maintenance and all explicit authorization for their use is placed in the control of Congress under Article I, rather than the President under Article II. As Hamilton explained, the President’s military authority would be “much inferior” to that of the British King… (Citing Federalist 69, Supra.)

      In his concurrence in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579, 642-643 (1952), which rebuked President Harry Truman’s claim of unilateral war powers in the Korean War, Justice Robert Jackson elaborated: “Nothing in our Constitution is plainer than that declaration of a war is entrusted only to Congress. Of course, a state of war may in fact exist without a formal declaration. But no doctrine that the Court could promulgate would seem to me more sinister and alarming than that a President whose conduct of foreign affairs is so largely uncontrolled, and often even is unknown, can vastly enlarge his mastery over the internal affairs of the country by his own commitment of the Nation’s armed forces to some foreign venture.”

      In United States v. Smith, 27 F. Cas. 1192 (1806), Supreme Court Justice William Paterson, a delegate to the Federal Convention from New Jersey, wrote on behalf of a federal circuit court: There is a manifest distinction between our going to war with a nation at peace, and a war being made against us by an actual invasion, or a formal declaration. In the former case it is the exclusive province of Congress to change a state of peace into a state of war.

      The Constitutional Convention: They specified that the only grounds for impeachment were “Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors.” These terms referred to the abuse of power, misapplication of public funds, corruption, criminal conduct, or violating the separation of powers mandated by the Constitution, not keeping the oath of office.
      A President may also be held responsible for the conduct of his subordinates. He may be charged with a cover-up if he knowingly conceals information regarding a violation of the law or if he fails to remove such officials from office when evidence of their offenses comes to his attention. He may also be charged with failing to see that the laws are faithfully executed, with failing to institute procedures so that officials will act lawfully, or with a conspiracy to see that the laws are violated. A President who testifies falsely in a judicial proceeding may be charged with perjury or obstruction of justice.

      Being impeached does not stop criminal or civil actions.

  • Ron Jobst

    The ground rules has always been the US Constitution. Play politics yes but within the rules. Obama has no respect for our form of government and will attempt to dismantle it. The cornerstone of a Republic is Liberty and that is what he wants from us. He wants our right to carry arms .. freedom of speech .. due process .. they are just the beginning of his evil agenda. It’s ironic .. a white President is known for freeing the black man and a black President will be known for enslaving the white man.

    • GRusling

      Our Constitution has been totally violated since FDR, and was seriously hurt by Abraham Lincoln. We’ll have to break the current system in order to reinstate the original system. Only through understanding that principle can we ever hope to win back our freedom.

      There is no hope in either Democrats or Republicans. They are flip sides of the same coin…

  • http://Yahoo Peter Barney

    Another Civil War?

  • Alice Steinbacher

    Chip, I’m afraid that I have misgivings about “staying the course.” Secession looks great to me, just think of creating a NEW REPUBLIC with the Constituion being upheld and the leaders who totally agree with this concept that has proven to be the best in the world. Another 4 years of this demigod wil set us back even further from achieving our plans of lower taxes and more jobs. We tried to let people see the difference(though not such a good methodology was applied) but the people who want everything from the government will never change. They just don’t get it! Nor do they want to, they are ignorant and lazy!

    I mostly love your articles and usually agree with you…but I can’t see us gain ground given this Congress of whooses, some of whom voted for him.

  • Arby Justice Wilder

    Infiltrate the Dem party and wait until there are enough of us and the time is right. Get rid of establishment GOP the same way. This is the only way to do it. they did it to us it took nearly 100 years to do.

  • Hedgehog

    What happens when O’dogma signs an Executive Order outlawing “nullification”? Please don’t say on what grounds! On the grounds that that’s the way he wants it.

    • Flashy

      Would that be before or after he declares martial law/ oh wait…he was going to do that before the election and move to confiscate everyone’s guns, send opponents to FEMA camps and have the UN take over police powers.

      Sorry … we’ll have to wait for the End of the World predicted by the Mayan Calendar

  • Pappy

    The reason that people want to secede is because they are no longer represented in Washington. This country was founded on the Constitution for the people, not a bunch of sycophants obliging to an unqualified dictator. The system is completely corrupt and there is no efficient way to fix it with the dishonorable bureaucrats currently on board. How can you make progress when you cannot remove “dead wood”? There needs to be performance clauses in every elected officials position, and when they underperform, or outright fail as we have seen lately, they need to be held accountable.
    As far as undermining the public with their lies and deception they show no boundaries. Officials are elected as emissaries for the American public, not for their own deceptive agendas. When they are found to ignore and abuse their constituents will, undermine the Constitution or deceive the public, full militaristic punishment would be in order. Imprisonment would be mandated and in the event of treason, hang them traitors high! Make them all accountable and this country can once again be a great, proud and productive place to live.

  • noel

    when it hits the fan, TEXAS will leave with or without permission from the fed!
    OBAMANOS!!!

    • DaveH

      Hopefully, Arizona will join you. We were the last mainland state to join the Union. I’d like us to be the first to leave it.

      • Flashy

        Such a patriot DaveH. With now knowing your inclination to not remain American or have care about this nation…you can quit posting now as anything further is just a showing of hot air and pretense.

      • DaveH

        I sure do like that Bob allows the Children to post here.
        How else can we educate people to the depravity of those who want to run their lives?

  • noel

    Pretty much the same thing that happened in the War of Southern Independence Pappy. Lincoln waged his tax war under the guise, later, of eliminating slavery. See the Morrrill tariffs. All wars are fought over money, the next one will be as well.
    “Techsas can live w/out the US, but the US cannot live w/out Techsas.”
    Thomas Jefferson

  • Daniel from TN

    Chip Wood – There is no way you could be further away from understanding the situation than you are on the secession movement. You encourage people to become involved with correcting problems currently seen in the USA instead of “wasting” time on petitions. What you fail to understand is that the secession petitions have the potential of becoming the driving force that motivates the people to demand and produce those very changes. Don’t you think the majority of the people signing those petitions KNOW secession will never occur. The petitions can serve as the call to action, the centerpiece, the focus, the glue, or any other term you choose to use: They can unite the people into taking action to restore the federal government to its Constitutionall established role, NOT its current dictatorial role.

    • Fay

      I couldn’t have said it better Thank You

    • DaveH

      Well said, Daniel.

  • http://www.eyeswideopen.info Igigi

    The problem with this pseudo secession movement is that it does not follow the rule of law. In order to have legal standing to do a real secession (as if that is the only solution, sheesh!) according to the rule of law established by English common law upon which our entire legal system is built, ONE MUST EXHAUST ALL AVAILABLE LEGAL REMEDIES FIRST! Otherwise, such an act of secession could be considered either treason or an act of war…but nobody wants to hear this. And, under the NDAA, such persons definitely qualify as “belligerents” which means bye-bye to Guantanamo, FEMA camp or what-have-you. The solution is a Continental Congress, but no one wants to hear about that either: I guess our forefathers didn’t know what they were doing when they sent multiple envoys to England to seek redress of grievance and then, AS A LAST RESORT, called a Continental Congress out of which was born the Declaration of Independence. Personally, I believe this whole pseudo secession movement (and I say pseudo because you really think a stupid petition on the WH web page carries any legal weight at all?) IS A TOTAL PSYOP being used to identify ignorant, stupid patriots who are too stupid to realize they are being put on the FEMA camp list and are not making any impact or improving our situation by this insanity AT ALL!

    • amusedinil

      LMAO.

      I agree with you, except for the part about the petitions on the website. It’s an exercise of freedom of speech. Some right wing paranoid VOLUNTARILY puts a petition on the website. He’s followed by thousands of other right wing paranoids VOLUNTARILY signing the petition. Then some OTHER paranoid decries the whole thing as a “psyops” exercise wherein Obama somehow is phishing for the names and email addresses of “the opposition.”

      If Obama took down the petitions, you’d claim he was stomping on your freedom of speech.

      Instead, Obama does nothing, and he’s suddenly crawling down your DSL or Cable modem into your browser to steal your guns and convert your daughters to Islam.

      Good Lord!

  • Spencer Washington

    I guess no one though Singapore could succeed from Malaysia. On though 10 years ago that Scotland would be self governing today. Five years ago no one though that the same Scotland would soon be voting on full independence from Great Britain. No one believed 25 years ago that the mighty Soviet Union would today be 15 separate states. These examples are only a small handful of the accomplished successions during the past 100 or even the previous 30 years. There are many more to come. You know what? All these successful secessionist movements were protest against an over reaching central government and the economic and cultural colonialism practiced by that same central government.

  • Deerinwater

    Correct Chip, an absurd notion, and only someone with very little to do would entertain the notion. Of course that does not stop some tongues from wagging.

    read more; https://www.tsl.state.tx.us/exhibits/annexation/part5/question11.html

    “The Presidential Proclamation declaring peace between the United States and Texas after the Civil War, dated August 20, 1866, states very clearly in the following passage that no state had the right to leave the Union (emphasis added in all capitals):

    And whereas,

    the President of the United States, by further proclamation issued on the second day of April, one thousand eight hundred and sixty-six, did promulgate and declare, that there no longer existed any armed resistance of misguided citizens, or others, to the authority of the United States in any, or in all the States before mentioned, excepting only the State of Texas, and did further promulgate and declare that the laws could be sustained and enforced in the several States before mentioned, except Texas, by the proper civil authorities, State, or Federal, and that the people of the said States, except Texas, are well and loyally disposed, and have conformed or will conform in their legislation to the condition of affairs growing out of the amendment to the Constitution of the United States, prohibiting slavery within the limits and jurisdiction of the United States;

    And did further declare in the same proclamation THAT IT IS THE MANIFEST DETERMINATION OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT NO STATE, OF ITS OWN WILL, HAS A RIGHT OR POWER TO GO OUT OF OR SEPARATE ITSELF FROM, OR BE SEPARATED FROM THE AMERICAN UNION; and that, therefore, each State ought to remain and constitute an integral part of the United States;

    On March 30, 1870, Congress passed the Act to admit the State of Texas to Representation in the Congress of the United States. Likewise, this act contains no language that would allow Texas to unilaterally withdraw from the United States.”

    • TML

      The interesting thing that people still don’t get, including those signing the petitions, or even such utterly flawed reasoning as you present here, is that the Constitution does not grant powers. It only delegates powers to the United States federal government. The FACT is that secession, nor any mention of how a state could go about secession, is nowhere mentioned in the Constitution, and therefore is NOT a power delegated to the United States by the Constitution, and thus reserved for the States or to the people. Objectively this means that every state has the unilateral right to secede from the Union regardless of what any “act” or proclamation from anyone else says. I invite you to debunk this logic. It can’t be done.

      In that, those signing such a petition amounts to little more than a protest, because federal government does not have the constitutional right to allow nor disallow the formal and peaceful act of withdraw from the Union by any state legislature. Those serious about secession and actually understand what they are talking about would be petitioning their state legislatures. Not the Federal Government.

      And to those who point to the Civil war as if that settled the question, I point to you as authoritarian fools who know nothing about the principles on which this nation was based, because such things cannot rightfully be settled by the barrel of a gun. Could the federal government once again use force at the barrel of a gun to subjugate those would wish to dissolve the political bands with the Union and institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to affect their Safety and Happiness? Yes, it could. Would it be just a tyrannical to do so? Yes it would.

      • Deerinwater

        TML says; “Objectively this means that every state has the unilateral right to secede from the Union regardless of what any “act” or proclamation from anyone else says. I invite you to debunk this logic. It can’t be done.”

        I say;

        I cannot debunk your statement, for it is true such language “could be introduced” to permit “secession” of any state from the union. ~ But at what cost?

        I once knew a man that had “seceded” from the MOB and lived to tell about it, a very interesting and very, very expensive. Standing down and changing your address and your name is the easiest part, while the years that follow things get more demanding.

        There is not a single state in the Union willing to pay this cost. There will be no such “language” introduced. It’s not a question of “Right” but one of “Will”. Many a good man had died exercising their rights.

        It would serve the US best interest if some states such Arizona would just “leave us” “if” it did not set a presidence for others to follow or the state found useful as nothing more then a “buffer state. Those two reasons alone, will block any such “language” of secession.

      • TML

        Deer says, “… for it is true such language “could be introduced” to permit “secession” of any state from the union… …There will be no such “language” introduced… …Those two reasons alone, will block any such “language” of secession.”

        I’m not sure you’re understanding the concept. Language that would “permit” secession is not required. The simple fact that there is no such language (which delegates the power of secession to the federal government, that it could permit secession or not), means that secession is a right of the State and people. Not of the federal government.

        10th Amendment – “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

        Therefore because there is no language in the Consitution that delegates the power to federal government to permit secession or not; secession is permitted unilaterally by the will of the people of that State per the Constitution.

        Deer says, “I once knew a man that had “seceded” from the MOB and lived to tell about it, a very interesting and very, very expensive. Standing down and changing your address and your name is the easiest part, while the years that follow things get more demanding.

        There is not a single state in the Union willing to pay this cost. There will be no such “language” introduced. It’s not a question of “Right” but one of “Will”. Many a good man had died exercising their rights.”

        So you accept the idea that your federal government is comparable to the MOB and therefore think it foolish to fight for ones inalienable rights, and should simply be compliant to tyranny? I hope that you’re joking.

  • DM

    Okay, I signed the PA petition. Of course I never did expect any of this to become a reality and it will not. However, I signed the petition as my part in the country wide protest telling Obama that we do not want his Communism. I did not say Socialism because Obama is a Communist, worse than a socialist, although it really does not matter. They are both from the same cloth and it will always end up the same (destruction). I am sure our “protest” is falling on deaf ears.

  • Roger from TX

    Well Chip, everyone has a RIGHT to say what they want and they are frustrated with this administration and its terrible policies. No one knows how Obama got elected again. It baffles the man or woman with common sense that people voted for him again after all of his failed policies. Now I hear people saying that Obama and the democrats are going to create another crisis during his second term to try and get a third term and maybe more. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.

  • DL Pop

    Mr. Wood, really a waste of time? Is that what our founder Fathers thought? If we the citizenry of this country do not start to take a stand and show this Leviathan Government we are not going to take it anymore, we might as well curl up in to the fetal position and cover our head and hope it goes away.

    • amusedinil

      Your response to Wood’s article reminds me of this {slightly modified} movie scene:

      Stork: What the hell are we supposed to do, ya moron? We lost the election. There’s nothing to fight for anymore.

      D-Day: [to Bluto] Let it go. War’s over, man. The American people dropped the big one.

      Bluto: What? Over? Did you say “over”? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

      Otter: [to Boon] Germans?

      Boon: Forget it, he’s rolling.

      Bluto: And it ain’t over now. ‘Cause when the goin’ gets tough…
      [thinks hard of something to say]

      Bluto: The tough get goin’! Who’s with me? Let’s go!
      [Bluto runs out, alone; then returns]

      Bluto: What the f**( happened to the Tea Party I used to know? Where’s the spirit? Where’s the guts, huh? This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you’re gonna let it be the worst. “Ooh, we’re afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble.” Well just kiss my a$s from now on! Not me! I’m not gonna take this. Wormer, he’s a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer…

      Otter: Dead! Bluto’s right. Psychotic… but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody’s part!

      Bluto: We’re just the guys to do it.

      D-Day: [stands up] Yeah, I agree. Let’s go get ‘em.

      Boon: Let’s do it.

      Bluto: [shouting] “Let’s DO IT! LET’S SIGN THE SECESSION PETITION”!

    • Sheryn

      I wish all of you right wingers would form your own little army, Get in a circle and shoot each other is the @$$. Then you will have something to bi-ch about !!!!!!!

      • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

        Or we could put you in the middle of the circle and have a “circle jerk”. Jerk!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        So why how did you come out from under the rock, the “right wingers” you decry didn’t lift it and we wouldn’t have known that another idiot existed.

  • William

    Bad news Chip, there is no free lunch, Santa Clause, or Easter Bunny….Expecting the same folks that created the problem to fix it is like taking your car with a blown transmission to a faith healer….Good luck with that. The Congress and the President created Obamacare then quickly opted themselves out of of it because they already have a better deal that is fully funded by the same folks that they created Obamacare for……They created Social Security in the 1930s, looted it in the 1960s, turned it into an entitlement like food stamps and now suggest that those that paid into the system are greedy for expecting the government to live up to their promises…..the money wasn’t paid out of the system to beneficiaries, it was stolen by the folks you expect to fix it…..more bad news Chip, Bank Robbers don’t rob banks to benefit the banks and depositors. Today would be a really good day to give up the hard drugs. There are some really good reasons to pack up our bags and get out while the getting is good.

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    In 1835 I believe, Alexis de Tocqueville was commissioned by the French goverment to go ot America and discover it’s secret to prosperity. In summary deTocqueville said where every he went, North, South, West and the East, found all people carried a bible and a copy of THEIR Constitution. He discovered the even the least learned among them knew their bible and Their Constitution. In that regard they were the MOST LEARNED OF ALL. He said they were the culmination of EIGHTEEN CENTURIES of learning.

    Today? What Chip Wood says is good but who can accomplish what he’s talking about? I’ve been in the gun business for over 50 years and I can tell you, guns are not the answer. The pen IS mightier than the sword. If the people even tried to secede, would they know how? Could they come up with legal terms to accomplish it? When the Police, National Guard and even the Military came knocking on doors, what would be people’s reaction? The Obama’s of this world see people as trained animals, and unfortunately many many act that way. Their the product of Bush’s indoctrinating and dumbing down of America. This Personal Liberty forum and things like it is the only answer, that and knowledge of the bible. For a short period of time we, might, have a sympathetic Supreme Court but probably Two of them will be appointed by Obama. “Now the Lord is that Spirit, and where the spirit of the Lord is, There is LIBERTY”. We’ve driven out the Lord and with Him went Liberty. Suggestion, read and believe John 3:16. Work to save America but have God’s insurance policy in hand.

  • FreedomFigher

    Trying To Secede? Don’t Waste Your Time

    You are just giving dangerous communist thugs your name. Obama and his thug regime will never give…they only take.

    The squeeze is on… ObamaCare the biggest tax hike this century, thousands and thousands of new regulations that will cost the American citizens billions of $$$$, A Higer progressive tax rate in America — allready one of if not the highest in the world.

    Obama, the regime, and his controllers want to SQUEEZE every gram of financial life out of ever single American untill we are all EQUALLY POOR and you, your children and your childrens children are subject to a totalitarian communist cesspool of government control, owning nothing with your very survival a whim of the state, his state.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • Pam S

    Texas did not join the union til 2 years AFTER the Civil War! They joined with option to secede if necessary!!! Scalia needs to read the law again!!! He’s wrong!!! We not only have the resources, we have a STATE CONSTITUTION giving us that right!!!

    • Sol of Texas

      Pam — Some would reasonably argue that the original annexation of Texas by the USA (1846) was an illegal act – that Texas has, in fact, never surrendered its sovereignty as an independent republic. I think that the annexation of Texas occurred while A. Lincoln was a congressman, and he voted against annexation. Reality can be stranger than fiction.

  • Paul

    Succession is like whistling Dixie against the wind. The best solution is to leave the country.

    • FreedomFigher

      America falls so goes the world…

      “In case you’re still unsure how Agenda 21 operates, especially in relationship to local activities, allow Mark Edward Vande Pol – a former Agenda 21 planner for Santa Cruz County – to explain the process. (Carl Teichrib, forcingchang.org))

      “This is Agenda 21. The UN intends to control your life, through incremental mandates instituted by your local government bureaucracy. You will never see it. You will never vote on it. No matter which path they use, the agencies can pen the new regulations under ‘threat’ of lawsuit and down the pipe it comes: enforceable administrative rules without legislation.”[1]

      The UN successfully fends off citizen resistance to Agenda 21 by hiding it behind innocuous sounding names like “sustainable development” and by branding all resisters as conspiracy theorists.

      But the build-up to One World Government for North America is fully documented and there is irrefutable proof in the making of Agenda 21 that it transcends a left-right paradigm.

      The way out of ObamaNation is the collapse of Agenda 21
      http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/51397

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

  • flankspeed70

    Dear Chip,

    The following questions are not sarcasm – perhaps you can offer them as a theme for a future article. “What have conservatives ever accomplished on a national scale? What enduring program is now in place that conservatives can triumphantly cite as their flagship achievement?” Really. Libs have social security, unemployment insurance, medicaid, medicare, abortions, condoms, cell phones, obamacare, food stamps, earned income credit, and some 2200 other federal spending programs that cannot be cut or pared. What have we got? The ‘war on drugs,’ military bases that even the military don’t want…………?

    Given a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, with control of all three branches of govt., conservatives did not even put forth a balanced budget amendment for consideration. So Chip, when conservatives can’t even win an election in the middle of a crashed economy against a corrupt, Marxist president and his cabal of Marxist czars, please explain to us how and why we must remain committed to a system so thoroughly permeated with megalomaniacs, hypocrites, criminals and anti-constitutional nationalists?

    My suggestion to you, Chip, is to re-read the Declaration of Independence. Ponder Einstein’s definition of insanity. Consider this – “the failure of every human endeavor begins with the inability or unwillingness to recognize and embrace reality.” At least those who submit petitions, however unrealistic their expectations, have achieved something you have not. They have abandoned any foolish hope of salvaging a destroyed system. They are far closer to reality than you.

    • DaveH

      The War on Drugs is a NeoConservative issue, flankspeed, not a Conservative issue.

      • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

        The reason that there is no hope for our republic is because everybody sits around on their computers complaining, bitching and moaning but doing absolutely nothing. If you doubt this, then just look at this thread and many others like it. Tons of gripes, suggestions, observations BUT NO ACTION! Are our state govts. being pushed to resist the Fed. overreach? No! Are our state and/or Constitutional Militias growing by the thousands (as they should be)? No! Is anyone organizing a “Million Patriots March” on DC? No! Nothing but talk!!! It’s no wonder our country is disentegrating before our eyes. And except for our military, we the sheeple have become a nation of wusses!!!

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          Your statement is incorrect. Many of us here are educating those who do not know, plus fighting within our states and the feds about what is – and most importantly, is NOT – legal in the USA.

          I am known to many of my “representatives”, enough so that I am no longer their automail lists … lol.

          But I do not let that stop me. Am I afraid at times, yes. This administration has already shown everyone that it considers murder a viable alternative. But if I let them shut me up, if I do not fight for our legitimate government then I will be doing as many in Germany did when their legitimate constitutional government was taken over from within.

          We cannot be quiet, and turn our heads away when we see illegal, and or criminal actions being performed: be it by “our” representatives, the LEO’s, the Military, banking corporations, etc.

          This is our fight today. We maybe didn’t want it, and it was thrust uon us, but it is our CHOICE to let it happen or to stop it.

          Some good news: Oath Keepers is happy to report a couple of uplifting stories brought to the holidays by a good New York City cop and a Sheriff’s deputy working at Albany International Airport. Both men brought honor to their badges and reinstate public appreciation for the good peace officers in America’s peace officer community. We salute both! http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2012/11/29/good-cop-and-good-deputy/

          We all need brightness into our lives at times like these.

          This used to be posted on the FBI website before it was “turned” (the “etc’s” are mine to shorten the lists):

          “Domestic enemies pursue legislation, programs against the powers of the US Constitution. They work on destroying and weakening the Rights of the People guaranteed by the Constitution. Plus they create laws, amendments, bills, etc that goes against the restraint on the three branches of our government by the Constitution. They are also those who support those in action, or by inaction; vote, voice, money, etc who are going against or trying to weaken the US Constitution and the Peoples written guarantee of the protection of those Rights.

          • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

            Again, I agree with your attempts to “educate” the masses. But we are up against a restricted time frame and I don’t know if we have that available. Time is short and action is needed now! What can be done to motivate to action???

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            Support those representatives that have supported our legitimate government – so few of them it is not hard. Recognize those judges, law enforcement, military who also support our legitimate government and get their names out, try and protect them, keep in contiact if can to see that they are not disapeared.

            All who are corrupted, GET their names and occupations out in the public eye along with the cirmes they have committed. Call for their removal. Let others know that the Oath IS legally binding and is their accountability to the People – breaking it , each time is a civil offense, unless it was broken by a criminal act.

            Educate all you can. Know your state constitution and the US Constitution so that you know what they can legally do; and most important, what they canNOT do.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            Sorry, forgot to put in to call for their arrests and prosecutions. Let them KNOW that you are calling for their arrest and prosecution. REQUIRE all election fraud that was committed in your state; those who committed it be arrested and held for prosecution. DEMAND IT!

      • flankspeed70

        The ‘war on drugs’ began shortly after 1915. ‘NeoCon’ was hardly a glimmer. The Nixon admin may have given it a boost, but it is undeniably imbedded deeply into conservative DNA.

      • DaveH

        I disagree, Dog. As they say, the pen is mightier than the sword. For instance, Cato’s Letters by John Trenchard and Thomas Gordon were widely read by the Colonists and largely responsible for the spreading fire of Liberty throughout the Colonies.
        http://mises.org/daily/1355

        Before the Protests, Before the Petitions, There must be knowledge.

        • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

          Valid point and I hope that you are right. However, I and many others have been warning Americans via the internet plus being involved with various Tea Party, Constitutional Militia and 9-12 grps for the past few yrs. and I’m not sure that we have much time left to try and “educate” them.

      • Smilee

        DaveH says:
        November 30, 2012 at 11:29 am

        Before the Protests, Before the Petitions, There must be knowledge.

        Knowledge I guess that leaves you out in the cold

      • DaveH

        Thank you, Sleepee, for more exposure of the true nature of “compassionate” Liberal Progressives. I couldn’t ask more from you guys.
        Sometimes I think maybe you guys are put-ons from a NeoConservative Boiler Room to make Liberal Progressives look bad. But then I realize — Hey, here are people who have no qualms at all about stealing other peoples’ money, so why should it surprise me that they act like children?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        roquedog, you are a provocateur.

  • Deerinwater

    WoW ! Chip.~ you found all the skeletons hide away in the closet.

    Once people start to hate ~ they can’t stop, no matter what. It;s like trying to put the bullet back in the gun after it’s left the barrel.

    • DaveH

      Quit being a hater, Deer.

      • eddie47d

        Just the opposite Dave H or was that YOUR sarcasm

  • GW

    I keep seeing people here refering to the “election” as proof of something. Vote fraud in this country can create any result the ruling elite want. For all we know Obama got no votes at all. The ruling elite defrauded the democrats in 2000 and installed W, and then false-flagged us with 9/11 to start the ball rolling. Now they have defrauded the republicans- the ruling elite are a tiny group of manipulative psychopaths with a somewhat larger coterie of similarly twisted strongmen. The honest decent people outnumber them by a ratio of millions to one. What they fear most is being exposed. Once identified, the decent people in the apparatus can take it from there. To identify this criminal cabal we need to institute people’s committees on truth and justice to create some system of administering Sodium Pentathol to the people in power, seperate the traitors from the patriots, the guilty from the innocent, the coerced from the coercers, and once and for all free humanity from these beasts. How to do it in a humane effective manner is a question all of mankind should be working on. Once and for all we need to identify the liars and remove them from power.

  • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

    The secession petitions are because this administration (and some previous) are not following our legitimate government. They have gone so far off base with *corruption, treason, murders, etc; and not one “representative” including Ron Paul, has called for their arrest. Neither has any “law enforcement” agency whose duties are to do exactly that (think SS, FBI) instead of creating “terrorists” to prove that this corruption must continue.
    *The corruption is pretty much evident for any who will look so I will not bother to list them, plus it would take pages.
    Treason: Fast and Furious – Both Holder and Obama knew and did a press release about it in early April 2009. Obama fought for funding for it in March 2009. Holder, along with Janet Napolitano, did a speech in Mexico extolling its “virtues and successes”, and with plnas of expansions and all the agencies involced at the April 2009 Arms Trafficking Convention. I sent all of this information to the committee that was supposedly getting to the bottom of when they knew so I know personally that they have the information of when they knew, that it was a flippin 2009 Press RELEASE with David Ogden, H. Clinton, Holder, J. Napolitiano, etc all there in the videos.
    F & F is Treason for arming known arms traffickers for a foreign nation that were used to commit mass murder in that nation, and also murder of citizen(s) here in the USA – how many here has not been released but we do know they have been found at 47 plus crime scenes but the info about them has not been released.
    Obama, Panetta, Dempsey “giving authority over the USA to the UN – TREASON – in a letter to Boehner (making him a traitor also and prosecutable), and to the senate (making all who were there TRAITORS under OUR laws and prosecutable).
    Giving the Un “authority” over the United States Military is also treason on Obama, Panetta, Dempsey, and all who know about it and done nothing.
    Benghazi – another arms deal with a foreign nation used against American citizens.
    Arming with military grade armaments and finanacially supporting known Terrorist groups (the same groups who supposedly had part in the Twin Towers) who work for foreign nations AGAINST the USA.
    Knowing that the CIA is training and working with terroists world wide is treason on all involveds part.
    All the listed above qualify as TREASON, mass murder, murder and various other civil and criminal offenses.

    We want our USA under our legitimate government. Not under UN control by UN thugs that were placed over the years into the federal government. Since we want arrests and prosecutions of ALL who had ANY part, even if just standing back and letting it happen, because they took an Oath to get into the office / position they currently occupy to Support and Defend that they are REQUIRED to keep that position.

    Clause 2 of Article VI of the ORIGINAL Constitution:

    “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”

    The first law statute of the United States of America, enacted in the first session of the First Congress on 1 June 1789, was Statute 1, Chapter 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution.
    The wording of the Presidential Oath was established in the Constitution in Article II, Section 1, Clause 10.

    The requirement for all Federal and State Civil officers to give their solemn and binding Oath is established in Article VI, Section 1, Clause 4.

    They are BOUND by their Oath to support the Constitution, and should they abrogate their Oath by their acts or inaction, are subject to charges of impeachment and censure.

    Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.

    Bound: “Being under legal or moral obligation; To constitute the boundary or limit of; To set a limit to; confine”.

    Require, Requirement, Required: “to claim or ask for by right and authority; Mandated under a law or by an authoritative entity. That which is required; a thing demanded or obligatory; something demanded or imposed as an obligation.”

    “Under the American Constitution a new structure of government was established on a much higher plane than either the parliamentary system or the confederation of states. It was a people’s constitutional republic, where a certain amount of power was delegated to the states and a certain amount was delegated to the national government. There was a small dimension of power which they shared jointly. All other power was retained by the people. It is the delegation by the people of certain powers to the states and certain powers to the national government which we call ‘dual federalism.’” W. Cleon Skousen, “The Making of America”

    “A constitution is not the act of a government, but of a people constituting a government; and government without a constitution is power without a right. All power exercised over a nation, must have some beginning. It must be either delegated, or assumed. There are not other sources. All delegated power is trust, and all assumed power is usurpation. Time does not alter the nature and quality of either.” Thomas Paine

    “God provided that in this land of liberty, our political allegiance shall run not to individuals, that is, to government officials, no matter how great or how small they may be. Under His plan our allegiance and the only allegiance we owe as citizens or denizens of the United States, runs to our inspired Constitution which God himself set up. So runs the oath of office of those who participate in government. A certain loyalty we do owe to the office which a man holds, but even here we owe just by reason of our citizenship, no loyalty to the man himself. In other countries it is to the individual that allegiance runs. This principle of allegiance to the Constitution is basic to our freedom. It is one of the great principles that distinguishes this “land of liberty” from other countries”. J. Reuben Clark

    “The way to have good and safe government, is not to trust it all to one, but to divide it among the many, distributing to every one exactly the functions he is competent to.
    Let the national government be entrusted with the defense of the nation, and its foreign and federal relations; the State governments with the civil rights, law, police, and administration of what concerns the State generally; the counties with the local concerns of the counties, and each ward direct the interests within itself. It is by dividing and subdividing these republics from the great national one down through all its subordinations, until it ends in the administration of every man’s farm by himself; by placing under every one what his own eye may superintend, that all will be done for the best.
    What has destroyed liberty and the rights of man in every government which has ever existed under the sun? The generalizing and concentrating all cares and powers into one body.” Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph C. Cabell

    “It is often asserted that the world has made a great deal of progress since 1776, that we have had new thoughts and new experiences which have given us a great advance over the people of that day, and that we may therefore very well discard their conclusions for something more modern. But that reasoning cannot be applied to this great charter.

    If all men are created equal, that is final.
    If they are endowed with inalienable rights, that is final.
    If governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, that is final.

    No advance, no progress can be made beyond these propositions.
    If anyone wishes to deny their truth or their soundness, the only direction in which he can proceed historically is not forward, but backward toward the time when there was no equality, no rights of the individual, no rule of the people. Those who wish to proceed in that direction cannot lay claim to progress. They are reactionary. Their ideas are not more modern, but more ancient, than those of the Revolutionary fathers.” Calvin Coolidge, 30th US President

    So we want the USA under our legitimate government, the Constitution of the United States of America. Since there is so much corruption and treason in the adminstration it is time to create a new adminstration who will follow OUR legitimate government. In a nuetral poll – 92% of American citizens said this country was going the wrong way. 3% was fine with it as it is, the rest were “unsure”.

    Look at how many went ahead and signed those peititions, knowing that it put their names in Obama’s “possible” assassination list, and onto their “terrorist” watch list that took actual foreign terrorists off (including those supposedly involved in 9/11) while adding American citizens who “dare” speak out against this corruption on it.

    Why are you not discussing the treasons committed? Why are YOU not calling for arrests and prosecutions?

  • http://None Danny Countess

    The government has gotten so big and too powerful over our lives because we have allowed them to, and have also not educated our children as to what it means, ostensibly, to be living under our Constitution , and be living in a “free” state. I sure was not. As a kid, i was shown some blurry films and regurgitated some dates and facts, but ws not impressed upon the meaning of it.
    We actually have not been really free since 1913-just “free-er” than most places. How did we ever get along those 100 some odd years without an income tax(which admittedly was originally on businesses)?
    The secession movement is a symptom of the times, and the great divide between us.Im actually ok with it-if any state does secede(and I am there, brother) it does not mean there would be no taxes of some sort-the state would have to run on something-but not necessarily an income tax, and I would hope they would adopt our Constitution. I personally believe the income tax is a hoax anyway, the fraudulent 16th amendment notwithstanding, and we should take that particular power away from big government. Else they will just keep printing and borrowing and come up with more dumb money- wasting programs to validate their existence and promote their perks, which we dont get, and we lose our rights and freedoms in the process.
    And in a seceded state, we would have to deal with keeping a lid on all that crap also, but that is the nature of things. And as for natural disasters, well we would just have to deal with it as well as w could-the people and the states are supposed to have more power, after all.
    i understand Chip’s point of view, but our hands seem to be so tied and the government so big and out of control, that it should not suprise anyone that it has come up.It is heartbreaking-and I really do not know what to do.The people seem to dumb to revolt-so?Dont get me wrong-I believe the talk of sesession is, again, unfortunate to have occured, because it points up the desperate state we are in-but it is not necessarily off the table in my view. The other unfortunate thing is, is any state did move to really leave the country, the govt’ has the technology to take them down pretty easily-and probably would! DC

  • Alex Frazier

    These petitions have positive value. They may not cause change in Washington directly. However, when other citizens see a quality petition on the page, it can start the wheels in their head turning. A petition, even ignored by the White House, may still start a movement if there are enough people who agree with the sentiment.

    For those who are willing, I put a petition up to pass a law that would amend or repeal any unconstitutional legislation. I need 150 signatures for it to be visible to the general public. Anyone who would be willing to sign it and help me get some visibility for it would be doing me a favor. This is the link: http://wh.gov/XWFx

    As for the petitions to secede, I think that the people asking for such a thing don’t fully realize what they are asking for, or what the consequences would be. In the first place, the federal government wouldn’t allow it. They didn’t allow it the last time, and they won’t allow it this time. So no answers should be expected. These petitions aren’t being avoided. They are being ignored. Because to them, it’s just as ridiculous as having Obama do the Hokey Pokey.

    But … if they did allow it: Social Security and Medicare would be cut off for all seniors, since that is federally funded. Medicaid would be cut off for low income families, since the federal government funds it. Most of our foodstamp programs are funded by the federal government. Our schools, through things like “No Child Left Behind” programs, are federally funded.

    And then you get into the fun stuff. If South Carolina became its own independent sovereign nation, North Carolina wouldn’t be obligated to help if South Carolina were invaded. Nor New Hampshire for Vermont, Oregon for California, Idaho for Wyoming, etc. We would be separate, independent nations, just as Spain, Ireland, Greece, England, Germany, etc.

    Currency issues would be a big problem in interstate commerce. We would have to deal with exchange rates and other similar problems. Or, we could keep the US dollar, and just like the Euro, conservative states would end up suffering for the sake of the fiscally insane.

    We would all have different laws.

    Our US Constitution would literally become nothing more than a piece of paper. All our rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights would cease to be in effect.

    People making and signing those petitions to secede really don’t know what they’re asking for. It would be a disaster.

    • flankspeed70

      Alex,

      You don’t quite get it. If a state seceded, it wouldn’t be paying taxes to the feds. The govt. takes your money, skims 85% of it, and then sends the balance of your own money back to you in benefits. If your state collected your tax money instead, they would have to confiscate far less of it – and still pay your social security.

      • http://gabrielalanking.wordpress.com gabrielalanking

        You don’t need any “social security” when you succeed. Because you ELIMINATE property tax and income tax, and detach yourself from the usury and credit driven scam fraud the pyramid is based on.
        You institute new rules. Throw out a lot of the red tape. Work to bring the cost of living down within your State. Work together. Revitalize local farming and independence. A military partnership would need to be maintained with other States however to ward off foreign invasions. Think BIG.

      • Alex Frazier

        No, flankspeed70, I do get it. I think you are missing something here. Social Security is federally funded. The federal government gets its money from the states, skims it, and sends it back in the form of benefits, as you say. If the federal government stops providing it, it won’t exist. The states would have to institute the program themselves, except that they can’t generate an unfunded retirement account unless they have precious metals or a robust local economy to stand surety while they generate a currency that other nations would want to purchase through bond auctions. This new SS system would have to be paid for, and most of the states lack the assets or productivity to build a solid enough of a currency to have a chance of borrowing any amount substantial enough to fund this program. And there would be a lot of red tape to boot. State legislatures are notoriously slow. They can spend a year arguing whether or not to pass a law that says all citizens have the freedom to use a back scratcher.

        In the meantime, old people would be without their benefits, without medical treatment, without their medications. They wouldn’t have the funds to pay their utility bills, or to eat. And before they could start receiving some of the benefits of the new system once it did pass in the state legislature, that system would have to be funded. For that system to be adequately funded, it would require an even higher tax burden on the citizens of each state independently to make it work, since we all know that the current system is completely broke and has unfunded obligations it will never be able to pay without raising our debt level exponentially.

        Trust me, I’ve thought this through carefully. Secession is a bad idea. It would be easier to remove Congress and the president and elect a new crop.

      • flankspeed70

        Gabriel,

        I agree in principal. However, as a practical matter, there will be a necessary transition period before the concept of ‘absolute personal independence’ becomes fully functional. Just too many old folks and truly needy. Once again, we can get there once we ‘de-couple’ from the Columbian Empire in DC.

        • http://gabrielalanking.wordpress.com gabrielalanking

          Sacrifices must be made for the greater good. “Old folks” have always been needy. In the 1800′s and prior, before notions of gov “social security”, people took care of the elderly as families. None of this spoiled American crap of one person driving in a car…. old people living alone in lavish homes….. people pulled together and did whatever it took.
          The best action of course, would not be succession, but rather kicking these maggots out of government. But they are deeply entrenched. People need to stop complying and begin to challenge this tyranny in mass. The illusion of security the Fed government provides is a smoke screen for screwing everyone over incrementally.

      • flankspeed70

        Alex,

        Think about this. The govt. sends a SS check from an overdrawn account. It has absolutely no money. It has to borrow money just to pay the interest on the money it has already borrowed. No nation in history has ever survived that circumstance. It has nothing to keep it afloat except the desperate hope among the citizenry that the crash doesn’t take place on their watch. Are you seriously making the argument that we are bound to this system simply because the Empire has the bureaucracy and bureaucrats in place and it would be inconvenient – even traumatic – to replace it – and the states couldn’t do a better job?

        • Smilee

          You are out in left field, SS takes in more each month than it pays out and will until about 2037 and it is considered fully funded without changes until that time, the loans you talk about were from the excesses in SS and if we pay that back that then the 2037 date will be pushed forward. This has been the GOP rhetoric to argue for spending cuts and no tax increases it and when it reality it has nothing to do with either, albeit changes sooner rather than later would make things better sooner for SS. Your confusing SS with the budget

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        You don’t quite get it. We use Federal Reserve NOTES as money. They represent a debt we have to the Federal Reserve. Their not like gold or silver certificates they you can redeem in gold or silver. With them you actually have an asset. With FRN’s, you have a debt This debt is incurred when your congressman exercises the “power of attorney” you gave him to borrow money on you behalf. If a State did secede, it would still owe it’s wealh to the Federal Reserve. Right now, the Federal Reserve owns America under the system we have. We could abolish the Federal Reserve and the debt and that’s what Ron Paul wanted to do.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

      I signed your petition!

      I also put up a petition that needs to get 150 signatures to get it out to the public. This is what it is about: (the link http://wh.gov/XB5b )

      We Can Immediately Fire and Replace Any Constitutional Oath Taker That Doesn’t Keep the Legally Binding Oath as Required
      US Constitution is Supreme Law. The first law statute of the USA was Statute 1, Chapt 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution. The wording of the Presidential Oath – Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Clause 8. The Oath requirement for all Fed and State Civil officers – Art VI, Sect 1, Clause 4. The Oath is binding for life.
      Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.

      Because they limit our words in the petitions I did not get to put all the laws that apply to them keeping their solemn and legally binding Oaths. All emphasis in caps is mine.

      The Constitutional Convention: They specified instead that the only grounds for impeachment were “Treason, Bribery, or other High Crimes and Misdemeanors.” These terms referred to the abuse of power, misapplication of public funds, corruption, criminal conduct, or violating the separation of powers mandated by the Constitution, NOT KEEPING THE OATH OF OFFICE.

      and

      The framers wrote the United States Constitution, which delineated a constitutional federal republic. It would consist of three separate but equal branches which were not only designed to perform separate and distinct duties, but to keep each other in check, preventing one from gaining arbitrary power. All of these branches were to be checked by the standard of law set forth in the Constitution, which each officer of the government must swear to uphold. If those officers should fail to keep their oath of office, then it is not only the right but also the duty of those who chose those officers to remove them. The success of this form of government depends heavily upon the vigilant and attentive execution of these duties.

      That shows that the framers considered it a crime and that we can remove them. That it was considered so important that it is a requirement in the US Constitution:

      The first law statute of the United States of America, enacted in the first session of the First Congress on 1 June 1789, was Statute 1, Chapter 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution.

      The wording of the Presidential Oath was established in the Constitution in Article II, Section 1, Clause 10.

      The requirement for all Federal and State Civil officers to give their solemn and binding Oath is established in Article VI, Section 1, Clause 4.

      They are BOUND by their Oath to support the Constitution, and should they abrogate their Oath by their acts or inaction, are subject to charges of impeachment and censure.

      Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.

      Bound: “Being under legal or moral obligation; To constitute the boundary or limit of; To set a limit to; confine”.

      Require, Requirement, Required: “to claim or ask for by right and authority; Mandated under a law or by an authoritative entity. That which is required; a thing demanded or obligatory; something demanded or imposed as an obligation.”

      Remember that the Oath is to the US Constitution, our government, not to the people we temporarily put into office to carryout the duties assigned each branch. Even the Judicial are only in office while having “good behaviour”, and can be removed for not doing as they are REQUIRED.

      The three branches of our government, the military, all law enforcement, the heads of the States, all federal employees are required to take an Oath to Support and Defend the Constitution and NOT an individual leader, ruler, office, or entity. Once given, the Oath is binding for life, unless renounced, refused, and abjured. It does not cease upon the occasions of leaving office or of discharge.

      .Clause 2 of Article VI of the ORIGINAL Constitution: “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”

    • Right Brain Thinker

      I’m not even going to look at your petition, Alex, because I think government is too big and intrusive as it is. You said:

      “For those who are willing, I put a petition up to pass a law that would amend or repeal any unconstitutional legislation”.

      Since that’s what legislators and courts already do, we have no need for duplication of efforts and the wasteful spending that would come with it. Lord love a duck!

      • Alex Frazier

        No offesnse Right Brain, but the Patriot Act and NDAA are proof enough that a catch-all bill needs to be passed to eliminate the government intrusions. The bill I’m proposing designates a citizen council, not a government bureaucracy, with the advice of citizen-run civil rights organizations, to identify unconstitutional legislation. That legislation would be presented to Congress to be amended until it meets Constitutional muster, or be repealed as being not pursuant to the Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land.

        Now, I don’t know if you’re just trying to come across as being smart or what. But how can you argue that we need less government while refusing to sign a petition for legislation, the sole aim of which is to reduce government and the power and intrusion it has forced on us?

        If you don’t want to sign it, then don’t sign it. But don’t be a butt about it. And don’t condescend to me like I’m an idiot. You’re not speaking to someone who is politically or economically illiterate.

        • Joe America

          Alex,

          Your ideas are good, but at this point, too little, too late. America, as we’ve known it, or, at least, as we thought we knew it, is gone. The NWO is here and they are in control. Everything else is an illusion. Big Brother has won.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        I wasn’t trying to be condescending, Alex, or speak to you like an idiot. I think your heart is in the right place but you haven’t thought this thing through. I WAS joking a small bit because what you propose WOULD increase the size of government at least a little bit. There would have to be some sort of structure to carry out what you suggest.

        I’ll say it again—-anyone who thinks a particular law is unconstitutional can go to the courts for redress and carry it right up to the Supremes. Or they can go to their legislators and push to have a law rescinded, modified, or replaced. That’s the way the Constitution says to do it, we’ve done it for 220+ years, and it seems to work. What you propose would duplicate that, and even become “outside” government, since your citizen’s councils are not elected.

        I did look at your petition. It was signed by 6 people, 4 of whom have the same last initial as you and come from Mauldin SC, as you do, leading one to believe they’re your relatives. Another signer is from CA. The fact that you haven’t gotten much “play” from PLD folks should tell you something.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          Remember that all petitions require 150 signatures BEFORE they are put out for the public to read and sign. Getting those 150 signatures can only be done through a link sent to the petitioner that is then distributed out to 150 “friends”, aquaintances, etc.

          If you do not have that many ‘friends” (and who does), then you use social sites and other places to get people to go read and sign it – if they agree with the message.

          I have a petition up on the Oath. ( http://wh.gov/XB5b ) It says:
          We Can Immediately Fire and Replace Any Constitutional Oath Taker That Doesn’t Keep the Legally Binding Oath as Required
          US Constitution is Supreme Law. The first law statute of the USA was Statute 1, Chapt 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution. The wording of the Presidential Oath – Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Clause 8. The Oath requirement for all Fed and State Civil officers – Art VI, Sect 1, Clause 4. The Oath is binding for life.
          Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.

          Unfortunately the limit on the amount of words we can use does not allow me to add all that applies such as:

          Bound: “Being under legal or moral obligation; To constitute the boundary or limit of; To set a limit to; confine”
          Require, Requirement, Required: “to claim or ask for by right and authority; Mandated under a law or by an authoritative entity. That which is required; a thing demanded or obligatory; something demanded or imposed as an obligation.”

          The word “perjury” is usually defined today as “lying under oath about a material matter”. It also means “violation of an oath”.

          The framers wrote the United States Constitution, which delineated a constitutional federal republic. It would consist of three separate but equal branches which were not only designed to perform separate and distinct duties, but to keep each other in check, preventing one from gaining arbitrary power. All of these branches were to be checked by the standard of law set forth in the Constitution, which each officer of the government must swear to uphold. IF THOSE OFFICERS SHOULD FAIL TO KEEP THEIR OATH OF OFFICE, THEN IT IS NOT ONLY THE RIGHT BUT ALSO THE DUTY OF THOSE WHO CHOSE THOSE OFFICERS TO REMOVE THEM. The success of this form of government depends heavily upon the vigilant and attentive execution of these duties.

          It is a civil offense to break the Oath, not just a political one. The Oath is our representatives accountability to “We the People”. That is one of the reasons it is a REQUIREMENT to get into office. It is why the three branches of our government, the military, all law enforcement, the heads of the States, all federal employees are required to take an Oath to support and defend the Constitution and NOT an individual leader, ruler, office, or entity. Once given, the Oath is binding for life, unless renounced, refused, and abjured. It does not cease upon the occasions of leaving office or of discharge.

          • Smilee

            does not appear you can find many interested and I see you still only have 17 signers same as a day ago, your sales pitch here is not working it appears.

          • Joe America

            Forget about oath takers, as foreign troops will be brought in, via the UN, to provide order during martial law. These troops won’t even speak English and will not think twice about shooting anybody. They will be brought in, because they will have no compassion for the people they are terrorizing. This Republic is over. Get used to it. And, if you have a white face and are male, better run and hide, because you will be gotten rid of, after you’ve done your job in the concentration camps. This is what America is coming down to. You’ll either be on the side of the NWO, or, you’ll be out.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            Then I will be “bled out”. Because I will never give up on individual freedom to be locked in 200 sqaure foot housing to slave labor for scum.

            But what I find most funny about this whole Obama thing, is that the people who are giving him his orders have no use for him as a person, only to destroy this nation. When he is no longer useful as a tool they will “dispose” of him one way our another.

            This long term committment does not cover any of mixed race, or darker skinned races – not if it is the Bilderburg group, etc. Their favored race has been blond, blue eyed aryans.

          • Joe America

            You are mistaken about the race issue. These guys don’t care about anyone, but themselves and their peers. If you are not a member of the NWO, you’re out. By the way, international bankers are not white blonde and blue eyed and that’s who’s running the NWO.

    • Smilee

      Got to give it to you, your post qualifies for the “Joke of the Day” award.

      • Alex Frazier

        And why would that be Smilee? If you have something to say, say it. Criticizing someone in such a generic way is childish. Speak your peace and give me the chance to answer.

        • Smilee

          A joke is a joke is a joke, nothing else needs to be said as all that is necessary has been said, kind of over head???

  • http://www.forgottenmen.com Mark

    “But in time, the pendulum started swinging back. Conservative defeats in the 1960s and ’70s led to some victories in the ’80s and ’90s. Granted, all we’ve been able to do so far is slow the growth of government; we haven’t gotten strong enough to reduce the size and power of the Federal behemoth.

    But if we abandon the battlefield, we never will. If there were ever a time to stay the course and even redouble our efforts, this is it. Let’s pick some battles where we can expect a sizable number of our fellow citizens to be on our side — not ones that will drive them even farther away from us.”

    This is what we’re supposed to pin our hopes on??? You’ve got to be kidding me. How does one define “slowing the growth of government?” I’m supposed to celebrate that we’re only $16 Trillion in debt instead of say…$25 Trillion in debt?

    This is precisely the type of thinking that will sink our posterity. There is NOTHING to be feared with an adult conversation about secession. Otherwise you one must necessarily have a problem with what was done in 1776 and then again in 1787. As well as having a problem with Belgium seceding from the Netherlands in 1830; Norway from Sweden in 1905 or problems with the secession by Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania from the USSR in 1991, or Iceland or most recently the Sudan.

    We’ve all been taught to believe the the Union is “indivisible” but according to the transcendent principles of the unalienable right to free association, self determination, self-governance, how can that be? The only people who benefit from demonizing the concept of secedere (Latin for secession) are those who occupy the very offices that oppose it….the DC’vers. Secedere is a perfectly acceptable, legitimate and necessary discussion that is supported by many examples of it being done throughout history…even by a rag tag bunch of people in 1776.

  • Ithamar

    Yes, I still have a copy of “None Dare Call It Treason” (along with a multitude of other exposes of treasonous individuals and organizations who labor to destroy this independent republic) and continue to feel consternation over the success of the treasonous works of the wicked. But Goldwater, whom I supported, would have been no better savior of the republic than Romney had he been elected, all for the same reason – large sections of the nation populated by masses who are not only incapable of liberty but keep the tyrants in power.

    Whether by session of excision, there will be no peace or restoration of constitutional liberties while shackled to the dregs of the mindless inhabitants of the north east of the west coast. While some good, responsible people live in those sections, they are the minority. The masses of the rabble will always prove the enablers of the tyrant. It is a waste of time, money and effort to salvage liberties while overwhelmed by such. Southern states and mid-western peoples have no future with the northeast dominated by the political criminal class who manipulate those who have no appetite for liberty founded in Christianity. The tyrant envisions the domination of all of us by growing the moocher classes in our own states through massive illegal immigration from third world nations. If this is not checked, we will either submit to the total loss of liberty and independence, or see our states enveloped in violent upheavals, may be both.

  • Joe America

    Mary, The two recent wars had nothing to do with protecting Americans and everything to do with gas and oil. That being said, it would be ashame to see the Repulic fractured. However, the Federal Reserve has a chokehold on this nation’s economy and until that’s broken, we’re doomed, as a nation, anyway. The republic we have, presently, is killing our economy and our freedoms. We are no longer a free people. We are, instead, a welfare-police state that is being run by Illuminists, people whose sole purpose is to bring this nation, and its people down. They want to irradiate all governments in order to create a one world government with them at the helm. Sadly, they will, eventually win. Why? Because the are absolutely dedicated to their cause. Most humans can’t plan for next week, while these people can make plans generations in advance, and make them happen. The NWO is on the move, now, more than ever. Be afraid my little babies, be very afraid.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      The Federal Reseve has a choke hold with their Federal Reserve Notes (FRN’s) on not only America but the whole world. The dollar is the world’s soverign currency. With them, or lack of them, they can control whether we buy or sell.

  • steve

    since the government is the problem ,then get rid of them and start over. you’ll wish you had when you loose everything .

    • http://gabrielalanking.wordpress.com gabrielalanking

      My sentiments exactly Steve. They will dearly wish they had.

  • Gabriel Alan King

    Kennedy was a democrat, but FAR more “conservative” than today’s so called conservatives. In fact, the democratic party was founded upon a Jeffersonian philosophy of “limited small government”….. lol
    We need to face the facts, America has gone completely off the deep end. The people have absolutely no voice or control. Banker and UN takeover is even bragged about. Recently demonstrated by the will of the people of my State Colorado passing amendment 64 legalizing marijuana- and the Fed and UN stating they refuse to honor the will of the people, our vote. Even though we won by a wide margin.
    Clearly these scum think they are our overlords. Our Constitution is being completely disregarded all together. “It’s just a God damned piece of paper….”- George Bush junior.
    Any talk of supporting the republican party, another run in 2016….. all of this is beyond the point of totally ridiculous. People thinking like this clearly don’t know what’s going on, or are not trustworthy. We need to quit playing games with these bastards and stand up together hard and strong for liberty. ALL activism including succession should be supported. And any other activism which dramatically apposes the rise of this Satanic New World Order.

  • DaveH

    These two sentences say it all:
    “To say governments were formed to protect the rights of men would be historically incorrect. Almost all governments were formed by ruthless men exerting their will over others through the use of force”.

    http://mises.org/daily/3427

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      It is because gave God us rights and liberty, we form governments. People are a societal creature. They live together in groups. People have the power of choice and their choices form their governments.

      • DaveH

        You need to study some real history, Christian.
        Choice does not involve Force, and Government is Force.

    • Deerinwater

      David H say; “Almost all governments were formed by ruthless men exerting their will over others through the use of force”.”

      I say ; Allow me to adjust a smig “Almost all governments were formed by ruthless men exerting their will over other ruthless men through the use of force”.

      To build a nation requires such able ruthless men with a long vision. Sam Houston lived to see the South defeated at Gettysburg and Vicksburg. There was no joy in knowing he had been right. On July 26, 1863, Houston died of pneumonia with his wife by his side. According to legend, his last words were, “Texas–Texas–Margaret–”

      Three years prior to his death Sam Houston had stood firm on his conviction as War came to Texas

      Although Houston was a slave owner and opposed abolition, he opposed the secession of Texas from the Union.

      An elected convention voted to secede from the United States on February 1, 1861, and Texas joined the Confederate States of America on March 2, 1861. Houston refused to recognize its legality, but the Texas legislature upheld the legitimacy of secession.

      The political forces that brought about Texas’s secession were powerful enough to replace the state’s Unionist governor. Houston chose not to resist, stating, “I love Texas too well to bring civil strife and bloodshed upon her. To avert this calamity, I shall make no endeavor to maintain my authority as Chief Executive of this State, except by the peaceful exercise of my functions ..

      . ” He was evicted from his office on March 16, 1861, for refusing to take an oath of loyalty to the Confederacy, writing,

      “Fellow-Citizens, in the name of your rights and liberties, which I believe have been trampled upon, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of the nationality of Texas, which has been betrayed by the Convention, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of the Constitution of Texas, I refuse to take this oath. In the name of my own conscience and manhood, which this Convention would degrade by dragging me before it, to pander to the malice of my enemies, I refuse to take this oath. I deny the power of this Convention to speak for Texas….I protest….against all the acts and doings of this convention and I declare them null and void.[28] ”

      He was replaced by Lieutenant Governor Edward Clark. To avoid more bloodshed in Texas, Houston turned down U.S. Col. Frederick W. Lander’s offer from President Lincoln of 50,000 troops to prevent Texas’s secession.

      He said, “Allow me to most respectfully decline any such assistance of the United States Government.”

      After leaving the Governor’s mansion, Houston traveled to Galveston. Along the way, many people demanded an explanation for his refusal to support the Confederacy.

      On April 19, 1861 from a hotel window he told a crowd:
      Let me tell you what is coming. After the sacrifice of countless millions of treasure and hundreds of thousands of lives, you may win Southern independence if God be not against you, but I doubt it. I tell you that, while I believe with you in the doctrine of states rights, the North is determined to preserve this Union. They are not a fiery, impulsive people as you are, for they live in colder climates. But when they begin to move in a given direction, they move with the steady momentum and perseverance of a mighty avalanche; and what I fear is, they will overwhelm the South.[29]

      want to know more about ruthless love ? ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Houston

      • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

        Wow! Thank you for that bit of history. Houston was not only a brave patriot but had great insight.

  • Theresa

    You really don’t get it! This isn’t about Left or Right, it’s about Communism!
    If you had read the Communist Manifesto you would know that we are in to deep!
    The pendulum will not swing back to conservative liberty principles!
    Once the wheels are set in motion there is no stopping it! It took Russia about 70 YEARS and a holocaust that cost the lives of 70 million Russians to bring an end to communism!
    I support secession and here is why, BOTH parties have become dictatorships!
    BOTH parties are utterly corrupt!
    The Declaration of Independence makes it very clear that secession is the RIGHT of the people!
    You don’t have the right to argue against a document which is the Charter to the US Constitution!
    How far will you allow communism to go? When your tax bracket hits 50%? When they come for your property? When they come for your guns? When they come for you!!!
    Believe me when I say, those days are not far away!
    A passive people will always produce tyrants!
    I’m glad that a petition movement was started!
    The conservative IGNORANT are being educated as to what their RIGHTS really are! As awareness grows so does the movement. It makes peaceful secession a viable option!
    The person who wrote the above article is your typical sell-out GOP, RHINO!
    Conservatives were sold out by their party long ago, and the sell-out continues to this day!

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Another way to put, communism is a governmental system headed by Satan, totally evil. Is the situation so bad that we’ve reached that point in time the Lord’s coming back is the only answer. If you asked me I’d say yes. Democracy in action. The majority of the American people fall in the predator group. They feel living on the dole of the producing people is just fine and voted that way. Democracy knows no morality. It only knows self, and what it has to do to satisfy self. Karl Marx said: “We must win the battle of democracy”. There have been instances where people have repented to God and changed to the right course with Him leading. The founding of America is one example. As I read, and write, nothing but negative things, I remind myself of John 3:16 and hope returns.

      Ever read Plutarch’s Nine lives? Ever read about the rise and fall of societies, their good and bad points? In my opinion humanity, with the founding of America, people have tried them all. A government headed by Christ is the only hope for people recognizing Him. They will experience LIBERTY and MORALITY for all eternity. The rest? Their getting a little taste of their futures.

  • chuckb

    better yet, let’s start a movement to divide the country into two states, one with the black mesiah and his minions and the other occupied by people who think conservately.

  • geode

    The problem is the Republicans don’t know what they are doing and there is nothing to suggest that they ever will. They raise massive amount of money, but still fail miserably. The nation won’t accept a third party. Fear that it would hand over a third election to the Dems will increase. Furthermore, confidence in the election process is dwindling as we get into the “hackable” electronic era. A sense of hopelessness will spread as the people learn the game of the power-hungry Federal government and the do-nothing politicians. And finally, with Agenda 21 soviets and Chinese expansion, the USA is in serious trouble of being consumed by the New World Order. And all this with an illiterate American populace which does not recognize the decline of the USA.

  • SomewhereInTexas

    The Third Secession and Revolution is nigh. We remaining Americans need to issue an Emancipation Proclamation to the effect that we declare ourselves emancipated from the mulatto marxist muslim occupying the White House. He is an Hitlerian figure, an anti-American communist and the biggest fraud in political history. Phuck the federal government. It has NO money unless we provide it. Time to stop the genocidal Ayatollah Obama before he repeats the massacre of Americans just like his bastard ideological father, the war criminal, Lincoln.

  • Robert

    Funny enough, talk of civilwar over seccession is ludicris. those who would fight would have band together in one area and start there (probably Texas) then who’s gonna fight them? Surtaintly not the Dems or Libs they are so anxious to give up there guns an rights to either collect a free check or support un conciouse irresponsible mothers to abort babies or support Transvestites to get there sex change all on everyone elses dollar? I don’t see them taking up arms to keep the states together. So is the American Gov gonna send our own millitary? boy that would be a sign of communisim!!! then what? Dems realise what they’ve done? probably not caus ethe media would potray it as domestic terrorisim an they could all go back to sleep. still… how doers anyone get there message across without having to secede? Those petition signers are brave. the gov min signed only represent more that are not willing to put there name on blast for Obama to see. again how do we get a meesage across that we don’t belive their rederuct of pulling this nation together and making us a power again? I belive a civil war would only give the rest of those who are to harm us oportunity to strike while we are divided. blah blah..

  • Robert E Bezanson

    Most of you just don’t get it…. Basically I see the petitions as a show of support against Obummer and his policies and to show the State Governments that there is support for succession if they want to consider it…

    As I see it, the States that secede would form another country founded on the original principals of the USA Constitution several hundred years ago and yes there would be taxes and a standing military force but w/o a complex tax code… This new country would provide safeguards in it’s Constitution so that what is happening now could not happen again… It would protect it’s own borders and encourage all citizens to be armed… Provide only a temporary welfare program, etc. ….

    I think you’d be surprised how many of the citizens left in the remaining states will want to join w/ this new Union…

    If Obummer is impeached then this won’t be necessary, BUT I doubt the Republicans have the guts to do it !!!

    • Robert E Bezanson

      A question for ALL Conservatives and gun owners… What’s your plan when the current Gov’t comes to confiscate your guns ????

      • http://www.facebook.com/3mrmultimedia Walt Morgan

        You must live in NYC or something. The government doesn’t have the guts to come and take guns. It would start a civil war. There are almost 1 gun in the USA for every person. In some states a lot higher than that. In the Texas the US government will be arrested if they attempt it.

        • Robert E Bezanson

          Then you better load up on ammunition because they could turn that supply off…

        • Robert E Bezanson

          Well it boils down to most of us finally realized we don’t want to convert to Socialism and lose our God Given Liberties… If you are willing to lose yours that is your right….

  • http://msfraud. Greg Collins

    Mary wars and welfare are two sides of the same coin the government is hired by it’s bankster buddies to create, poverty, conflict and through public schools ignorance and stupidity. Most productive people pay about half their income by the time you add state, local. federal, social security etc. taxes. The Federal government helped steal my business and home and harassed threatened and falsely imprisoned me and have held me “under investigation” for 7 years in California with no stated charges. The banking crooks get rich off of the interest payments of financing welfare and warefare two sides of the same coin. Your the elites dream come true and the middle classes worst nightmare.
    To bad you understand zero about economics the government structure and reality. So it was a big opportunity to work 80 hours a week for 40 hours pay and have the government give the money to drunks, drug addicts lazy bums and illegal immigrants so they can breed like rabbits to take even more of my money and fill the world with even more dysfunctional hateful violent people and then use the rest of my money to bomb people I don’t know on the other side of the world I could be friends and trading partners with instead? You sound like you would be a great pubic relations agent for Hiltler and Stalin better yet just get a job with the big man himself Satan, oh wait looks like you were already first in line to fill that position. Think of all the food, housing and jobs Hitler gave people and in the middle of a war when his troops were short of supplies what a guy!
    You can keep your Auschwitz utopia and please stop forcing it on everyone else. No more lies about Clinton please I’m a financial crimes investigator and the money trail goes straight to the Clintons who supported the repeal of Glass-Steagal and who’s mansion in N.Y. was illegally funded by Deutschebank which helped loot our nation of trillions through trust arrangements and I’m predominantly German of decent but no giant fan of Nazi type fascism like you are, or racism like the Rhodes backed Clinton who stripped blacks in Arkansas of voting privileges and political office is see Jeffers V Clinton.

  • MNIce

    The White House petition page in the hands of known Communist sympathizers reminds me of the 1950s Chinese campaign named “Let a Thousand Flowers Bloom”. People were encouraged to freely post their comments on government on walls provided for that purpose. The government quietly collected information on those who posted, then began the “Cultural Revolution” purge. 60 million Chinese found out the hard way that getting tagged as “counter-revolutionary” was a fatal event.

    Don’t think for a moment that the Department of Homeland Security or a similar agency couldn’t possibly be tracking down the IP addresses and other information of petition signers for possible inclusion on their “terrorist” list.

  • Jake

    I lost faith in the Republican party when they stripped Maine of all Ron Paul Delegates, which in my eyes spit on those who had a thought or an opinion. Why should anyone believe in a party who openly refused to recognize delegates who were fairly won?

    Our system is corrupt and broken, secession is a better option because the GOP cant maipulate, or pass rules on the floor for a states feelings to remove itself from the union. The GOP shot itself in the foot for decades to come. You can sit in peoples livingrooms and handbout books all you want, but when you realize that the voting process is failing to work, its because no one is listening to the people, and the people will always find other means to get their point across.

  • http://aol Florence

    for David A Deal: just a reminder, America IS an annex for mexico.

  • http://www.facebook.com/3mrmultimedia Walt Morgan

    David A. said at 1017 that if all of the oil pipelines coming into Texas were shut off, the refineries would shut down and go broke. If you remember, most of the oil the USA uses comes from other countries. The port of Houston recieves more tonnage than any port in the USA. How much of that do you think is oil? lol The USA would pay to use the Texas refineries. There aren’t many more in the USA and they don’t just get built. Go ask your EPA in DC. Besides, Texas produces enough oil and natural gas to support it’s own people for a hundred years. Why would we worry about outside oil? Texas would be exporting oil to other countries including the USA. Texas is one of the largest producers of beef, corn,wheat,sugar, computers and microchips, aircraft, defense systems, rice, shrimp, #1 in wind and solar power, ……Texas pays in more tax than they recieve back from the USA every year. There are close to 30 million people in Texas. Probably 2 guns per person. Texas has a whole Army NG infantry division and could raise a million person military in 1 day if we were invaded by Mexico, we also have the Texas Air NG. Don’t think for a second that Texas would be annexed by them. Most states in the USA could raise an armed militia larger than all but the top two or three militaries in the world. Any place in the USA would be a bad place to invade. Including Texas.
    There are very few things that a person would need that isn’t already being produced in Texas. We could be a nation and one of the richest in the world. Now that I’ve said all of that, I would rather see the US government completely audited and returned to it’s constitutional origins. No federal reserve, no federal land…..All laws researched and decided if they are constitutional by the states. No computer voting. No federal welfare programs. The entire US government needs to start over. No personal income tax. Get rid of the bloated fed employee rolls. We don’t need 2/3 of the agencies in DC. I think you get the idea. I’m very conservative. Also a big part of our taxes don’t go toward the military. We only spend about 4% of GDP I think. That’s low.

  • http://personellibertyrights.com Rich

    well why you think its just a joke and a big waste of time and money, you are missing the big picture! This fifty states to actually petition to secede from the U.S sends a pretty clear picture and message. The people( we the people) are sick and tired of big govt dictating what is best for us rather than listening to us! Mr. Obama went against what the majority of americans did not want such as Obamacare,gay marraige,and the list goes on. We the people do not want or need a nanny state telling us whats best for us, like we are a bunch of stupid idiots who need talked down to like Mr. Obama continously does! We want less govt and less spending (a budget) that the govt should abide by, we all have too! You dont spend more than what you have! There are so many govt funded idiotic things where if they just defunded and got rid of those we wouldnt be in this mess! Govt giving people and organizations millions and billions to study the life cycle of an earth worm and stuff like that. We are just sick and tired of this stupidity and frivolous spending, thatswhat people are tired of, thats why you see these petitions to secede. We want are rights back and our country back the way our forefathers and our constitution was fought for and lives were lost for! I for one hope it sends a message to Washington that we are not pleased with their decisions, made behind our backs and without a voice or vote from we the people!

  • FWiedner

    The petition to secede is a protest vote against current administration policies whether the federal government chooses to take it seriously or not. I doubt that anyone is spending any more time or money to actually accomplish the goal than it takes to ‘sign’ one of the several petitions. The “Civil War” didn’t settle any question of states rights, all it settled was that the Federal governemtn and army had more resources than the Confederate Army did at that point in time. As fat as the constitutionality of secession and whatever the Supreme Court might have to say on the issue, they declared themselves the final authority on constituional interpretation, The People NEVER gave them that authority. Thus, their word is only law is the People settle for their dictum.

    No decision of of government is the last word.

  • Dave67

    LOL… Now we have all this noise about secession…

    What has fundamentally changed about this country from when Bush was president to when Obama was president? Are you now allowed to do anything now that you could do in 2006?

    The racism here is laughable. We lost something like 2.7T in national wealth thanks to the banksters and wall street and 30 years of lobbying efforts in 2009. WE as a country have tax cuts while in 2 wars and an aging population which uses more HC, SS and other programs. In a recession, the Gov gets less tax revenue while spending more in Unemployment insurance and job training programs.

    Our debt isn’t even the highest to GDP we have had… Bujt many white people are scared… scared because a black man with a non-Christian name got elected not once but twice by the people of this country and the fact that the white male influence in the voting population is in decline. That scares conservatives…

    I think Texas should secede… What is the % of hispanics in that state? Certainly higher their than in national polls and TX is doing ok financially due to many of the big oil firms have their HQ there. What do you think is going to happen in Texas breaks away and becomes Jesusgunscapitalistland? Those idiots will get an education when the hispanics dominate the political scene, they have to raise their own taxes, raise their own armies to protect from the Mexican hordes to the south and the liberal barbarians in the north.

    The internet is great but the downside is that you have kooks everywhere and usually there was just a few in each town. The internet has allowed the kooks to come together and talk, many come to this cite.

    Together we stand, divided we fall… I think I heard that somewhere before.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

      Dave, actually Obama just happens to be the one in the “hot seat” after a long line of corrupt individuals (as he is) and “We the people” are tired of it. If it had been Romney put into office it still would have happened because just like Obama kept and carried on, plus added to Bush’s policies; Romney would have kept, carried on, and added to Obama’s policies.

      We like individual rights, we have been patient and have let “our” representatives know what we wanted. Instead we had people placed into office through election fraud.

      We have policies we do NOT want implemented at the behest of a foreign entity, foreign governments, banking, etc which makes those who implemented them traitors. We are tired of corruption and treason. It mtters not who he is, because he is NOT following our legitimate government and happens to be the POTUS at this time he is feeling the heat.

      Many feel he will go ahead and murder US Citizens so they are not signing and are being extra careful of what they are saying. That alone says it all.

      • BR549

        Kansas Bright, it’s nice to see others here who can appreciate the scale of the corruption. We’ve had one POTUS after another propped up by globalist interests; Republican, Democrat, it makes no difference, yet I’m sure that we’ll have Obama supporters popping out of the woodwork screaming, “It ain’t so. What you say is true, but not Obama.”

        Keep up the good work, and pass out the nose rings for those who haven’t figured it out yet.

      • Dave67

        “Many feel he will go ahead and murder US Citizens so they are not signing and are being extra careful of what they are saying. That alone says it all.”

        Many Feel….

        Any sort of factual data to back that up? Of course not….

        But its a feeling you and the right wing loons have… Typical… Try thinking once in a while. This country is owned by corporate interests. The Tea Party was started by Dick Armey and the Koch Brothers (Corporatists) for the expressed purpose to use right wing people to gain more power for corporations in DC while at the same time destroying unions.

        The “Occupy” movement on the other hand is not aligned to either corrupt party and want to limit the big money that is in our political process and influence in DC.

        Many people here are the useful idiots of the corporatists. Wise up…

        If you want to leave… please do so. Nobody is stopping you.

        I want to see a return to a vibrant middle class and means for people to have upward mobility. Guess what? Putting taxes back to Reagan or Clinton era rates is not tyranny… Its paying for what you spend..

      • Howlingmad

        This comment is for DAVE 67 . . . FIRST : Your comment on this, makes clear that your nothing but a MOUTH PIECE for “STUPIDITY” ( I E the DEMOCRATS ) . . . SECOND: On the Tea Party, it was CREATED by “ONE PERSON” . . . that’s RON PAUL. He did so, back in 07. . . . “SO” . . . since FACTS are NOT of any importance to you . . . why don’t you just “DIE”, then it will be one LESS “FOOL”, to be dealt with ? . . .

      • Dave67

        Howlingmad,

        You have the details of this? So the tea party rallies were funded by Ron Paul? Please show me where this is true.

        I could call you a moron, fascist and a bubblehead…

        Instead, I will just label you a typical conservative.

    • http://www.facebook.com/3mrmultimedia Walt Morgan

      LOL You’re almost funny. Why is it, when you disagree with a liberal, you’re some kind of idiot that just too dumb to think for yourself. For some reason you think voting in Texas would be different if we were a country instead of a state. 70% of the people voted republican in the last election. Tell me why that would change. Liberals just don’t get it. It’s not about race or what your last name is. It all comes down to freedom. You can’t take what belongs to me and give it to someone else. You have no right to tell me i can’t build a house on my own land. Like the EPA has done. The US government has no right to tax any person more than another. A republican isn’t for the rich. All people are supposed to pay the same tax rate. You pay based on what you have, other wise it’s called taxation without representation. That’s why we left england. They wanted to over tax the colonies to pay for england. Finally someone had enough and said no! Liberals don’t get the deal that if every person paid 10% of their income in tax, then the more you make the more you would pay. You would pay your fair share. That’s what this country was founded on. Freedom for all people. Equality. We all have the right to work at a company or leave and go work some where else. If we don’t like that, then we can go start our own company. That’s freedom. Nobody says it’ll be easy or that you’ll succeed. It’s you’re right to decide though. No one has the right to tell a businees they HAVE to pay for a person insurance either. They have to provide a safe workplace. I’m not owned by a company and I don’t expect them to take care of me. If they have a job open and I’m hired, then I work for them until I want to leave or they don’t want me anymore. If a company offers to pay for other benefits, like health insurance or a company vehicle, then that’s a benifit that’s optional. I don’t want a law that tells someone to give me anything and I don’t want a law that says i have to give someone something. It’s freedom. If you don’t like where you are then move to another town and work there or start a business there.

      • Howlingmad

        “WELL SAID”, Walt . . . I’m DISAPPOINTED to see how many here, actually have “NO CLUE” about the move to SECEDE, or even why “THIS” is the proper way to DO IT. . I guess that PROVES, how “SERIOUS” the problem actually IS.. ! Its already clear, that STUPIDITY “ABOUNDS” . . . its why we have re-elected an “IDIOT”, with a “COURT JESTER” for a partner . . . sigh !

        • Joe America

          Well said.

    • http://personellibertyrights.com Rich

      YOU obviously are a supporter of big govt and a nanny state! You don’t know what you are talking about, you want to make it a racial thing when its not, its about retaining our rights, like to bear arms and to speak freely! Its about the constitution which this administration has no respect for! Its about a president who thinks he can do whatever he wants with no consequences for his actions! He declared war in Libya and why we already had khadafi stifled and its Congress that declares war, not the president! He had 2 Americans killed, yes they were terrorist but also Americans and should have had due process according to our laws, that’s murder! Now they want to take away our rights to bear arms, to protect ourselves, and force a bunch of new taxes on us through Obama care, to be unforced by the IRS, is that what you want? Can’t you see that he is pushing to be a dictator and change America as we know it. Really you need to do some homework on all this, then comment because right now you just sound like a racist thumbing your nose at true blue Americans concerned about their country!

  • BLoui

    As for Texas large economy that can basically support itself? Well that might be largely due to the fact that the state of Texas is home to large portion of U.S. military bases owned by the federal government that helps support Texas economy quite handsomely.Plus a large portion of military contractor businesses that rely on the federal government for contracts are out of Texas. If the federal government pulled up stakes and closed all those military basis in Texas, Texas economy wouldn’t be able to survive. ’nuff said!

    • Dave67

      Yes, They would become MS or OK real quick. They do not realize decisions you make have repercussions.

      Personally, I say just give all the conservative loons TX and call it a day. They can build their fences, mandate gun ownership and the Christian faith as state rules if they wish.

      Last I checked, this country is not Cuba where the Gov forces you to stay. Conservatives are free to leave anytime they wish. They can find new things to whine about. The majority of people made their choice between the two corrupt parties and regulars at this site, overwhelmingly support the more corrupt one (the GOP) but pretend that they don’t and somehow Obama is this great satan even though there is nothing to substantiate that position. Compared to Reagan, Clinton and Bush 1 and 2, Obama is a saint.

      • http://www.facebook.com/3mrmultimedia Walt Morgan

        Hey Dave, I’m glad you said this country isn’t Cuba. Under obama were headed that way though. You liberals are doing your best to create as many socialist programs as you can. You want to outlaw guns. What happens when we go from 43% of the people on food stamps to 50% or 60% or higher? I see commercials telling me how great they are. Someday we’ll all be on government payroll and nobody to pay taxes. Then you’re utopian illusion will dissapear. Welcome to reality. People with money hire people. Poor people don’t create jobs. Poor people need jobs so they can make enough money to start their own business and hire someone. You can’t do that in Cuba.

      • http://personellibertyrights.com Rich

        I was right you are not only racist but you are also ignorant (look it up in the dictionary) it describes you to a tee. You must want socialism therefore you are also a traitor to the U.S and the constitution! Freaking liberal commie cronie

      • Dave67

        Rich is an idiot (check) so how am I a proponent of the nanny state because I say the secessionist are hypocritical loons? Explain that one to me.

        Walt, Have you been to Cuba? Explain how and what Obama is doing to make us like Cuba. Let me know the bill Obama sponsored to have armed security on every block in every major city or the bill that states the Gov is taking over private enterprise. Do you have those bill or laws to cite?

        The problem with conservative loons is that they throw big words around like Socialism, Communism, Marxism and have no clue what they mean.

        As I have said though..you two boys are free to leave anytime you wish.

  • Gayle Naar

    There are not restraints on one deciding to depart from the USA except for those who might be incarcerated. So not living in the US under terms which might not fit one needs at the moment if a freedom you are allowed but I don’t know of a freedom which allows a group in minority to rule this nation. Love this nation or leave it, the old run with Texans thinking they are allowed to secede from the union was before the Civil war, they did not rejoin the Union under these rules. Make any petition, spin your time getting signatures, send them where you want and perhaps it will occupy the time of some who have nothing else to do.

    • http://www.facebook.com/3mrmultimedia Walt Morgan

      The civil war was started over taxes. Only about 60 years after the US constitution was ratified, the northern states that were less agriculural, impossed extremely high taxes on all exports from southern ports. At the time, 73% of the US taxes was coming from a few southern states. This went on for nearly 20 years. South Carolina finally said no! Some states had already forgotten about the taxation without representation from England. So the war started. It didn’t have to. If a fair tax would have been agreed upon the whole thing would been avoided. Some of you will say it was started over slavery. It was not. Only abouy 4% of the people in the southern states owned slaves. There was people in NY, Mass and PA that had slaves too. I don’t agree with slavery in any way at all, but the war wasn’t over slavery. The emancipation wasn’t even until 63 or 64. Lincoln was a republican president and he broke more rules of the constitution than anybody ever. He passed laws without asking congress. The list goes on.
      We don’t need, and no one in their right mind should want, another civil war, but something has to be addressed just like in the 1850′s or we’ll be in trouble in a few more years. People are that devided on the direction this country is going in. They’re tired of more laws, regulations and taxes. Why not less government? Maybe we should try that for awhile. Instead of finding more money for the government to spend, why don’t we just have less governmet to spend it. That isn’t that tough. We need to forget who got us here and just fix it. We’re 17 trillion in debt. We’ll never pay that off. We can’t even balance an annual budget, how can we ever expect to begin to pay on our debt.
      Something’s going to happen. Hopefully it’s peaceful.

      • david imlay

        Walt: I agree but it all comes back to the point of the monetary system which has gotten us all into trouble anyway. We all live in a land of scarcity although it was found on abundance. It is not that we have wasted away our resources but we have come to depend the monetary system and the leaders of those banks to provide for us what we all think we need to survive. (wages, iras, stocks, supply and demand with demand for money in exchange, and entitlements) These are illusion values. The real value is in what we create and how much we can create in overabundance.

        Money is created out of thin air and put on dead pieces of wood, which can not even sit up and speak for itself. The money we all use right now has a name of NOTE on it. Note is defined as debt or an abstract being. (illusion) If it is not real, why do we continue to give it reality by giving it energy to exist?

        • Joe America

          You are right on the “money.”

      • Smilee

        Not all southern states that seceded had ports where tariffs where imposed and I agree that is was not slavery that started it per say but it was an underpinning reason contributing to it, with the country in a civil war the Constitution gave the Lincoln the commander and chief the power to suspend habus corpus and much of what other he did to unite the county and could not have happened if he had not did as he did and most where acts of war strategy including the emancipation proclamations which was a document of war strategy to entice black men to leave their plantations etc and join the union army, it gave the North some advantage. Lincoln would not allow the war to end until the House of Representatives voted by a 2/3 majority for the 13th amendment which abolished slavery and then he negotiated the surrender terms with the seceded states. Many read a lot into what really happened then but no one can dispute the seceded states lost the war and became a conquered people and had to agree to many things to get back into the US which they all did uniting the nation on the terms of the Union States. That is reality weather you like it or not is irrelevant.

      • Vigilant

        Smilee once again furnishes us with his completely personal (and incorrect take) on history.

        “Not all southern states that seceded had ports where tariffs where imposed…”

        Item 1: Smilee’s complete lack of understanding re tariffs. The location of southern ports had nothing to do with it. Tariffs were levied on importers of goods from overseas, causing end prices of the goods to increase. Arkansas had no ports, but its residents still had to pay for the tariff’s effects on prices, whether the items came into Boston or New Orleans.

        “…and I agree that it was not slavery that started it per say [sic] but it was an underpinning reason contributing to it…”

        Extension of slavery into the new territories was the proximate cause of the south’s secession. Secession declarations mention slavery scores of times, but you’ll find virtually no mention of tariffs.

        “…with the country in a civil war the Constitution gave the Lincoln the commander and chief the power to suspend habus [sic] corpus…”

        The Constitution does NOT give the president the right to suspend habeas corpus; it only provides that option to the Congress.

        “…and much of what other he did to unite the county [sic] and could not have happened if he had not did [sic] as he did [sic] and most where [sic] acts of war strategy including the emancipation proclamations [sic] which was a document of war strategy to entice black men to leave their plantations etc and join the union army, it gave the North some advantage.”

        That was the ONLY part of Smilee’s commentary that is correct, though awkwardly put.

        “Lincoln would not allow the war to end until the House of Representatives voted by a 2/3 majority for the 13th amendment which abolished slavery…”

        Absolutely ridiculous. The 13th Amendment was passed by the House on January 31, 1865. The Battle of Appomattox Court House took place on April 9, 1865. I can assure you that the war ended on the battlefield, NOT when Lincoln “allowed” it to happen.

        “… and then he negotiated the surrender terms with the seceded states.”

        Smilee believes Lincoln came back from the dead to negotiate surrender terms!

        I can truly say I’ve never seen a single person with such a consistently incorrect grasp of history as Smilee. It shouldn’t surprise me, in the wake of his arguments earlier that slavery was unconstitutional prior to the 13th Amendment.

        • BR549

          While Lincoln is seen as some magnanimous figure by most, he was not that much different than Bush43 (except anyone’s family dog was more intelligent than Bush). I say that with respect to the North’s attitude of the southern states as being little different than we view third world countries today; forcing them to operate under the hegemony of the larger empire. The South was exploited for its resources far in excess of what it was receiving as a benefit for being in the Union. The history books have tried to make this an issue of emancipation, but the truth is that a number of the framers were already freeing their slaves some 80 years earlier and a number of European states were already looking at slavery with disfavor. Emancipation was evolving of its own accord and didn’t need a US Civil War to falsely promote it.

          • ralph schindler sr

            Right on & print JFK money with gold silver &platium in IT!

        • Smilee

          VIGILANT—–Smilee once again furnishes us with his completely personal (and incorrect take) on history.“Not all southern states that seceded had ports where tariffs where imposed…”
          Item 1: Smilee’s complete lack of understanding re tariffs. The location of southern ports had nothing to do with it. Tariffs were levied on importers of goods from overseas, causing end prices of the goods to increase. Arkansas had no ports, but its residents still had to pay for the tariff’s effects on prices, whether the items came into Boston or New Orleans.

          Tariffs WERE ASSED AT THE PORT OF ENTRY ON IMPORTS AND THEN NOT BY THE STATE BUT BY THE US.

          “…and I agree that it was not slavery that started it per say [sic] but it was an underpinning reason contributing to it…”
          Extension of slavery into the new territories was the proximate cause of the south’s secession. Secession declarations mention slavery scores of times, but you’ll find virtually no mention of tariffs.

          I SAID IT WAS THE UNDERPINNING NOT THE DIRECT CAUSE, DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT UNDERPINNING IS??

          “…with the country in a civil war the Constitution gave the Lincoln the commander and chief the power to suspend habus [sic] corpus…”
          The Constitution does NOT give the president the right to suspend habeas corpus; it only provides that option to the Congress.

          LINCOLN WASN’T THE ONLY PRESIDENT TO DO SO, GW AND OTHERS HAVE DID IT BUT HE COURT STRUCK IT DOWN FOR GW FOR OTHER REASONS AND CONGRESS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, MOST LEGAL EXPERTS SAY LINCOLN WAS IN HIS RIGHTS BUT THE RHETORIC FROM THE FAR RIGHT OF COURSE DOES NOT AGREE WITH THAT AND THAT I THINK IS WERE YOU GET YOUR INFO,

          “…and much of what other he did to unite the county [sic] and could not have happened if he had not did [sic] as he did [sic] and most where [sic] acts of war strategy including the emancipation proclamations [sic] which was a document of war strategy to entice black men to leave their plantations etc and join the union army, it gave the North some advantage.” That was the ONLY part of Smilee’s commentary that is correct, though awkwardly put. “Lincoln would not allow the war to end until the House of Representatives voted by a 2/3 majority for the 13th amendment which abolished slavery…” Absolutely ridiculous. The 13th Amendment was passed by the House on January 31, 1865. The Battle of Appomattox Court House took place on April 9, 1865. I can assure you that the war ended on the battlefield, NOT when Lincoln “allowed” it to happen.

          GO SEE THE MOVIE LINCOLN OR READ DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN’S BOOK (SHE IS REGARDED TODAY AS THE MOST ACCURATE HISTORIAN ON LINCOLN TO DATE AND COLLABORATED WITH THE PLAWRIGHT ON THIS MOVIE) YOU WILL FIND I AM RIGHT. THE CONFEDERACY HAD MADE INDICATIONS BEFORE THE AMENDMENT WAS PASSED THEY WANTED TO NEGOTIATE TERMS FOR ENDING THE WAR AND LINCOLN WOULD NOT ACCOMMODATE THEM UNTIL AFTER THE HOUSE PASSED THE 13TH AMENDMENT AS HE DID NOT WANT THE SECEDED STATES VOTING ON IT AND THE MOVE AND THE BOOK ARE VERY CLEAR ON THIS AS OTHER HISTORICAL ARTICLES ARE

          “… and then he negotiated the surrender terms with the seceded states.”
          Smilee believes Lincoln came back from the dead to negotiate surrender terms!

          WHY WOULD YOU SAY HE HAD TO COME BACK FROM THE DEAD ON APRIL 9TH 1865 WHEN HE DID DIE UNTIL April 15th 1865 the day after he was shot. that statement clearly illustrates your lack of knowledge of history. YOU CAN DENY IT BUT LINCOLN WAS ACTUALLY ALIVE WHEN THE WAR ENDED AND IF YOU REALLY WERE UP ON HISTORY YOU WOULD NOT MAKE SUCH IDIOTIC STATEMENTS.

          I can truly say I’ve never seen a single person with such a consistently incorrect grasp of history as Smilee. It shouldn’t surprise me, in the wake of his arguments earlier that slavery was unconstitutional prior to the 13th Amendment.

          NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION EVER SAID SLAVERY WAS CONSTITUTIONAL ALBEIT THERE WERE MANY LAWS MAKING IT LEGAL AND ONLY CHALLENGED ONCE IN THE COURTS IN THE DRED SCOTT DECISION AND THAT COURT GOT IT WRONG AND FEW TODAY DISPUTE THAT, IT IN ESSENCE RULED THAT BLACK PEOPLE WERE NOT A PART OF “WE THE PEOPLE” BUT THAT THEY WERE NOT PERSONS AND THAT THEY WERE PROPERTY THUS UPHOLDING STATE LAWS OVER THE CONSTITUTION AND THAT IS WHY IT WAS WRONGLY DECIDED AS MOST SCHOLARS SAY TODAY EXCEPT THE FAR RIGHT. MANY LAWS IN EFFECT FOR MANY YEARS HAVE BEEN UNCONSTITUTIONAL BUT BINDING SUCH AS PRAYER IN SCHOOLS, ABORTION, SEGREGATION ETC. The 13th amendment was passed so the courts could not interpret it wrongly again and have not but most likely would have at the time WITHOUT IT. Your grasp on history is based on the far right distortion of actual facts and this post of yours clearly does that as any creditable historian will confirm and have. Go see the movie Lincoln it should be an eye opener to the truth for you.

          It is you that uses the far right rhetoric a

      • Vigilant

        Walt Morgan says, “The civil war was started over taxes. Only about 60 years after the US constitution was ratified, the northern states that were less agricultural, imposed extremely high taxes on all exports from southern ports.”

        Incorrect. Tariffs are levied on IMPORTS, not exports, and the northern states imposed nothing on the south. Congress, in duly passed laws voted by both northern and southern representatives, imposed tariffs on all imports coming into northern as well as southern states.

        When one scrutinizes the Tariff of Abominations (1828), one sees immediately that it was ultimately a devious political scheme of the south that backfired on them.

        “In an elaborate scheme to prevent passage of still higher tariffs, while at the same time appealing to Andrew Jackson’s supporters in the North, John C. Calhoun and other southerners joined them in crafting a tariff bill that would also weigh heavily on materials imported by the New England states. It was believed that President John Quincy Adams’s supporters in New England, the National Republicans, or as they would later be called, Whigs, would uniformly oppose the bill for this reason and that the southern legislators could then withdraw their support, killing the legislation while blaming it on New England.” (Wikipedia)

        This scheme backfired when the northerners in Congress voted for the tariff, even though it hurt them as well.

        “This went on for nearly 20 years. South Carolina finally said no!”

        Also incorrect. The tariff was repealed a mere five years later. South Carolina “said no” in 1832, and Jackson had the Force Bill passed to allow him to send federal troops to SC. Repeal of the tariff took ammunition away from SC, which then agreed to repeal its nullification ordinance and avoided a confrontation with Jackson.

        On May 1, 1833, Jackson wrote, “the tariff was only the pretext, and disunion and southern confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or slavery question.”

      • Vigilant

        BR549 says, “Emancipation was evolving of its own accord and didn’t need a US Civil War to falsely promote it.”

        It was NEVER about emancipation. It was about the extension of slavery into the territories that would become states.

        Moreover, if “emancipation was evolving of its own accord,” you might want to explain why the preservation of slavery was mentioned SCORES of times in the articles of secession of the southern states, and why the constitution of the CSA was written with the express aim of perpetuating slavery. I’ll quote you chapter and verse from the CSA constitution if you like.

        • BR549

          Vigilant wrote: “I’ll quote you chapter and verse from the CSA constitution if you like.”

          Don’t bother. I’m already convinced that you carry a dog-eared copy with you into the can every morning. You are correct about the emancipation issue not being the only issue. I never said it was. I was only pointing out that that some of the framers had already begun that process. That doesn’t negate what I said, nor does it thrust the entire debate onto the the back of the Missouri Compromise, either.

      • Vigilant

        Smilee continues to amuse us with his totally incorrect history as he shouts: “WHY WOULD YOU SAY HE HAD TO COME BACK FROM THE DEAD ON APRIL 9TH 1865 WHEN HE DID DIE UNTIL April 15th 1865 the day after he was shot. that statement clearly illustrates your lack of knowledge of history. YOU CAN DENY IT BUT LINCOLN WAS ACTUALLY ALIVE WHEN THE WAR ENDED AND IF YOU REALLY WERE UP ON HISTORY YOU WOULD NOT MAKE SUCH IDIOTIC STATEMENTS.”

        No, dear Smille, the war continued until the following month. Lee surrendered the Army of Virginia on Apr 9th and the insurrection was declared over by Pres. Johnson in May.

        Lincoln never had a chance to involve himself in the terms of bringing the confederates back into the Union. That was done long after his death. And, the “Ten Percent Plan” he floated would have been MUCH more lenient than the actual Reconstruction measures passed by a radical Republican congress

        I repeat, “I can truly say I’ve never seen a single person with such a consistently incorrect grasp of history as Smilee.”

        • Smilee

          VIGILANT

          Doris Kearns Goodwin is widely recognized as most credible and most noted expert on Lincoln and the history of his time and she was the collaborator on the current movie “Lincoln” both make a liar out of you, she spent ten years doing nothing but researching it before she wrote her book and is one of a few highly respected and accurate historians in the country today and I never talked about what happened after Lincolns death but since April 9th 1865 and still today that is the day the confederate surrendered and the war declared over.(that is what a surrender is you know) You cannot rewrite the history but that is exactly what you are doing and many far right winger today are doing that in many ways but the real facts prove otherwise. Lincoln was very much involved in the drafting of the surrender terms and also in his negotiations with the House over the thirteenth amendment he made it very clear why he wanted it passed before surrender that is a matter of record too. He also made it very clear why he issued the emancipation proclamation that to is also of record. You say nothing about where you get your wrong information so we can only guess and we all know that the far right has been spinning this distortion of it and rewriting history on it and also that they have deep hatred of Lincoln and I suspect that is their motivation for rewriting history. You write “I repeat, “I can truly say I’ve never seen a single person with such a consistently incorrect grasp of history as Smilee.” Your quote is a bold face lie as little of what you have written is factual which makes you guilty of what you accuse me of, Also the caps were to more easily disgusting between your words and mine and were not shouting as you infer, I thought you were smart enough to figure that much out but I was wrong on that and nothing else.

      • Vigilant

        I said, “The Constitution does NOT give the president the right to suspend habeas corpus; it only provides that option to the Congress.”

        And Smilee shouts, “LINCOLN WASN’T THE ONLY PRESIDENT TO DO SO, GW AND OTHERS HAVE DID [sic] IT BUT HE COURT STRUCK IT DOWN FOR GW FOR OTHER REASONS AND CONGRESS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, MOST LEGAL EXPERTS SAY LINCOLN WAS IN HIS RIGHTS BUT THE RHETORIC FROM THE FAR RIGHT OF COURSE DOES NOT AGREE WITH THAT AND THAT I THINK IS WERE YOU GET YOUR INFO.”

        My statement stands, and it is completely correct. Whether or not GW and others tried it (which demands some proof from you) has NOTHING to do with the FACT that the Constitution provides the president absolutely no powers to suspend habeas corpus.

        And you have told a bald faced lie, you naughty boy. Lincoln knew and all Constitutional scholars KNOW that he was on shaky ground, and that’s why Congress replaced Lincoln’s blanket suspension with a blanket suspension of their own within a year.

        I challenge you to provide JUST ONE legal “expert” that claims such a ridiculous thing.

        And far right, far left or far out has nothing to do with it. It’s a matter of Constitutional law and nothing else.

      • Vigilant

        Smilee happens to be just about the only person in the world who says, “NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION EVER SAID SLAVERY WAS CONSTITUTIONAL.”

        If you say and indeed believe that statement of yours, then you have NO right to engage in any intelligent conversation. Here’s a hint for you, sonny: if slavery was made illegal by the Constitution, you never would have seen the southern states ratify it. That simple truth eludes only the clueless such as yourself.

        Your fighting a BIG windmill, little boy. Best to retire from the battlefield before you’re laughed off.

      • Smilee

        Vigilant says:
        December 1, 2012 at 9:35 pm

        I said, “The Constitution does NOT give the president the right to suspend habeas corpus; it only provides that option to the Congress.”

        And Smilee shouts, “LINCOLN WASN’T THE ONLY PRESIDENT TO DO SO, GW AND OTHERS HAVE DID [sic] IT BUT HE COURT STRUCK IT DOWN FOR GW FOR OTHER REASONS AND CONGRESS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, MOST LEGAL EXPERTS SAY LINCOLN WAS IN HIS RIGHTS BUT THE RHETORIC FROM THE FAR RIGHT OF COURSE DOES NOT AGREE WITH THAT AND THAT I THINK IS WERE YOU GET YOUR INFO.”

        My statement stands, and it is completely correct. Whether or not GW and others tried it (which demands some proof from you) has NOTHING to do with the FACT that the Constitution provides the president absolutely no powers to suspend habeas corpus.

        [This is what the Constitution says Article 1, Section 9 paragraph 2 “The privilege of the writ of Habeas Corpus shall be not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.” He did revoke it and some complained so rather than a big constitutional fight he revoked that so it was not established he was wrong, It was really a political fight not a legal one But Lincoln decided against a court constitutional challenge with Congress and revoked it and most creditable constitutional scholars agree and say the constitution does not deny him the right or assign that decision solely to congress.]

        And you have told a bald faced lie, you naughty boy. Lincoln knew and all Constitutional scholars KNOW that he was on shaky ground, and that’s why Congress replaced Lincoln’s blanket suspension with a blanket suspension of their own within a year.

        {Lincoln suspend it but the rest of this paragraph of yours is all malarkey and totally incorrect}

        I challenge you to provide JUST ONE legal “expert” that claims such a ridiculous thing.

        [there are many google it or are you to lazy to, also read Doris Goodwin’s book it would be an eye opener for you]

        And far right, far left or far out has nothing to do with it. It’s a matter of Constitutional law and nothing else.

        {How would you know you have clearly demonstrated you know very little about the constitution or understand what it is. The far right conservatives have rewritten it and you believe that BS and you see a lot of that on here because so many of them hate Lincoln just as bad as they hate Obama and fabricate all this malarkey based on hate and not fact on both of them.] [Many are racists and I am starting to suspect you might be too]

      • Smilee

        Vigilant says:
        December 1, 2012 at 9:45 pm

        Smilee happens to be just about the only person in the world who says, “NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION EVER SAID SLAVERY WAS CONSTITUTIONAL.”

        [why don’t you show us where in the Constitution where is says it is, that’s because it is not there]

        If you say and indeed believe that statement of yours, then you have NO right to engage in any intelligent conversation.

        {I’m convinced you have not idea what is intelligent conversation as you sure have not exhibited any on here}

        Here’s a hint for you, sonny: if slavery was made illegal by the Constitution, you never would have seen the southern states ratify it. That simple truth eludes only the clueless such as yourself.

        {You are the real clueless one who keeps shooting his mouth off about things he knows nothing about, education might cure this for you but it requires a open mind and a respect for the truth and you have neither. It was a compromise they would not put it in the constitution and then look the other way on this existing practice and based on that the southern states did agree to vote to ratify slave laws where not challenged until dred scott was wrongly decided and that is when the absolutists started in earnest to work to get rid of slavery and it was so ingrained in the culture that they enacted the 13th amendment so the courts could not decide it wrong again. And thus insure its compliance and idiots like you think because state slavery laws existed they were constitutional and you clearly do not understand the difference between the two Many unconstitutional laws were in effect for years before they were rendered null and void and some still exist that has always been the nature of our laws and cultures.

        Your fighting a BIG windmill, little boy. Best to retire from the battlefield before you’re laughed off.

        {Only by fools like you think this and who cares about what fools think??}

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          “The Constitution is colorblind, and neither knows nor tolerates classes among citizens.” John Marshall (That does not account for the peoples attitudes then anymore then it does now. It applies to the document that is our government.)

          Preamble:
          We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

          Notice that it does not say we the white people … there are and, most likely, always will be some people of all colors who find it difficult to accept other people of different colors.
          Slavery was done worldwide at that time period in our history, actually for thousands of years then, by any captured people. The blacks were sold into slavery mostly by other blacks and brought to America. The American indians were captured and made slaves long before the black slave trade came to America. The problem with American Indian slaves is this was their land, escape was easier. The American Indians were considered LOWER ‘caste’ then the blacks here in America.

          It was a worldwide “problem” – though at that time it was not considered a problem, but a solution. Today slavery still exists in some countries and should be considered a problem.

      • Vigilant

        Kansas Bright, your opening quote was not from John Marshall, but John Marshall Harlan in the Plessy vs. Ferguson case of 1896, which was decided long after the Civil War and which established the “separate but equal” philosophy which held until Brown v. Board of Education.

        At the writing of the Constitution, “the persons who became the people of the United States had a right to refuse to contract with…the blacks who were slaves but who, by right, should have been free. For, to quote Herbert J. Storing, ‘there is nothing contradictory in arguing that while the Negroes have a human right to be free, they [did] not have a human right to be citizens of the United States.” (“Taking the Constitution Seriously”, Walter Berns)

        States, not the federal government, determined citizenship requirements until the 14th Amendment, i.e., the Constitution left that decision up to the states. Indians and blacks were not included amongst the mass of people who “constituted” their republic, and Tories were excluded by their own choice.

      • Vigilant

        It took me awhile, but I finally figured it out: Smilee is actually a Conservative who has taken it upon himself to make the liberals look bad by posting comments so stupid and misinformed that they couldn’t possibly have come out of the mouth of a sane person.

        Kudos to you, Smilee!

        • Smilee

          Until you give facts that prove what you say there just is no valid reason to give any creditably to anything you say

      • Vigilant

        Smilee says, “but since April 9th 1865 and still today that is the day the confederate surrendered and the war declared over.(that is what a surrender is you know) You cannot rewrite the history but that is exactly what you are doing…”

        No, my dear babe in the woods, you are completely wrong. And if you truly did read Doris K. Goodwin’s “Team of Rivals,” you’d understand that she never claimed what you claim.

        Page 731: [April 14, 1865] “At 11 a.m., Grant arrived at the White House to attend the regularly scheduled Friday cabinet meeting. He had hoped for word that [Joseph] Johnston’s army, the last substantial rebel force remaining, had surrendered to Sherman, but no news had yet arrived.”

        And, page 732, Goodwin talks about Lincoln’s sentiments during that cabinet meeting, with “He hoped there would be no persecution, no bloody work, AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER.” (caps mine). So the war was not over for Lincoln the day before he was assassinated, but it was over for you, Smilee?

        You, not I and not Doris K. Goodwin, are trying to rewrite history. The war was NOT “declared over” on April 9, 1865.

        Further, it wasn’t until April 26th that “Johnston surrendered the Army of Tennessee and all remaining Confederate forces still active in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. It was the largest surrender of the war, totaling 89,270 soldiers.” (Wikipedia)

        And if that ain’t enough for you, “On June 23, 1865, following the Battle of Doaksville, at Fort Towson in the Choctaw Nation, Watie signed a cease-fire agreement with Union representatives for his command, the First Indian Brigade of the Army of the Trans-Mississippi. He was the last Confederate general in the field to surrender.” (Wikipedia)

        Bottom line: the war did NOT end prior to Lincoln’s assassination. You may now commence eating crow.

      • Vigilant

        Smilee says, “Until you give facts that prove what you say there just is no valid reason to give any creditably [sic] to anything you say.”

        My, my, little boy, you’ve remained strangely silent after my last posting. I realize you’re not familiar with those things I cited. They’re called FACTS, sonny.

        P.S. It’s spelled “credibility,” something else with which you are not familiar.

        • Smilee

          If they had been facts I would have responded to them but it was just pure garbage and I will not wallow in your garbage

        • Smilee

          You are [comment has been edited] totally devoid of any character and so arrogant to think you can speak for any one here, there are better odds they agree with me and not you but there are other in your class here too. You clearly demonstrate you can not deal with the intelligent and can only blast them without reason and you are totally wrong on your descriptions of me, quite likely it better describes you as it describes someone without character which you have none of.

          • Smilee

            Joe again you make clear you are an [expletive deleted], I’m neither, angry, violent, hurt etc. apparently you get this info in your dreams as they are so ridiculousness. Actually I’m laughing my a$$ off thinking about how big a fool you are.

          • Donald

            Fools seldom ever recognize they are such. Leave him be, it’s unlikely he can hurt anyone.

          • Jim C

            Smilee,
            I do appreciate your point of view even if Joe does not. I can’t say that I agree with most of it but, unlike Donald, at least you make an attempt to back up what you say without being too smarmy. I don’t think that anyone said that those of the liberal persuasion should not be able to express their opinion even though it draws ire on this site.
            It seems that humans have a natural tendency to get personal when one is short of or ignorant of facts and history. Buck up, buddy, and try not to take it too personally. I’m listening, Smilee.

          • Donald

            Trying to provide you facts to back up any statement is pointless, so why bother. You are so entrenched in your though process, however limited it might be..however based in hatred it is, that you will never agree to anything I say, so it’s barely worth wasting the time. Most of what I have read here involves a bunch of people crying that their rights are being trampled, blaming the current government through implications that stretch back much further than one administrations, and advocating violence to correct it. Now, you probably will say I am wrong, I imagine that most of you here were making smarmy comments about the OWS demonstrations. The puzzling thing is that they were closer to the mark on what is wrong with our country than the people here whining about our broken government.

          • Joe America

            Donald,

            God bless you for trying to educate people, but you’re wasting your time. It’s over, period and the NWO is in control. They’re simply consolidating their control over the masses, taking care of little details, putting the icing on the cake. That’s it.

          • Donald

            Welcome to debate night here in America. As soon as one side figures out your on the other side, civility leaves the building.

          • Donald

            Typical Non-Liberal response. When you think you have the upper hand you try to grind in the boot heel with an attack on sexuality. Continue to deny your hate. You just became the thing Joe was responding about.

      • Vigilant

        So, quoting your highly acclaimed Doris Kearns Goodwin is “pure garbage?”

        Time to seek mental help, son.

        • Smilee

          Not in my opinion but apparently it is in your as they were your words

          • Jim C

            Smilee,
            You seem to lean on Doris Kearns Goodwin and say she “is widely recognized as most credible and most noted expert on Lincoln and the history of his (Lincoln’s) time”. You might want to re-think your reliance on her as your historian of choice.
            You do know that she lost her job on PBS for plagiarism don’t you? She lifted quotes from Rose Kennedy’s book TIME TO REMEMBER, Hank Searl’s book THE LOST PRINCE and Lynn McTaggart’s book KATHLEEN KENNEDY: HER LIFE AND TIMES. I think that you will find that she has been thoroughly discredited as a historian for admitted plagiarism. Evidently this was not just one and only incident but there were very many incidences from what I hear.
            I also know that she was a Lyndon Johnson toady so quoting her as a source of truth may be just a little bit of a reach.

        • Joe America

          Not pure garabage. Like most Americans, you don’t know your history, but, instead, just propaganda. The Civil War had more to do with maintaining the Union and Taxes, not slavery. Lincoln stated that if he could have held the Union together, with, or without slavery, he would do so.

      • Smilee

        Jim C says:
        December 2, 2012 at 3:21 pm

        Smilee,
        You seem to lean on Doris Kearns Goodwin and say she “is widely recognized as most credible and most noted expert on Lincoln and the history of his (Lincoln’s) time”. You might want to re-think your reliance on her as your historian of choice.
        You do know that she lost her job on PBS for plagiarism don’t you?

        SHE HAS NEVER BEEN AN EMPLOYEE OF PBS

        She lifted quotes from Rose Kennedy’s book TIME TO REMEMBER, Hank Searl’s book THE LOST PRINCE and Lynn McTaggart’s book KATHLEEN KENNEDY: HER LIFE AND TIMES. I think that you will find that she has been thoroughly discredited as a historian for admitted plagiarism. Evidently this was not just one and only incident but there were very many incidences from what I hear.

        I NEVER HEARD OF IT, SOUNDS LIKE CONSERVATIVE PROPAGANDA TO ME AS THEY SEE HER AS A LIBERAL AND NO MATTER HOW SKILLED AND HONEST SHE IS OF COURSE THEY ARE GOING TO BLAST WITHOUT CAUSE AND I SUSPECT THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING HERE

        I also know that she was a Lyndon Johnson toady so quoting her as a source of truth may be just a little bit of a reach.

        THIS ILLUSTRATES MY POINT ABOVE, SHE DID WORK IN THE JOHNSON WHITE HOUSE AND WROTE A BOOK ON HIM. BUT THAT’S IRRELEVANT TO THE TRUTH SHE IS RESPECTED AS I HAVE SAID BY HER PEERS ON ALL SIDES OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM. TO PAY ANY ATTENTION TO YOUR STUPID REMARKS WOULD BE SILLY AS THEY HAVE NO RELEVANCE TO ANYTHING ON THIS SUBJECT OR MY REMARKS.

      • Vigilant

        “SHE HAS NEVER BEEN AN EMPLOYEE OF PBS,” says the ignorant Smilee, and as regards plagiarism, “I NEVER HEARD OF IT, SOUNDS LIKE CONSERVATIVE PROPAGANDA TO ME AS THEY SEE HER AS A LIBERAL AND NO MATTER HOW SKILLED AND HONEST SHE IS OF COURSE THEY ARE GOING TO BLAST WITHOUT CAUSE AND I SUSPECT THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING HERE.”

        Well. Let’s kill two birds here with one stone.

        “Slate magazine also reported that there were multiple passages in Goodwin’s book on the Roosevelts (No Ordinary Time) that were apparently taken from Joseph Lash’s Eleanor and Franklin, Hugh Gregory Gallagher’s FDR’s Splendid Deception, and other books, although she “scrupulously” footnoted the material. Furthermore, The Los Angeles Times reported similar circumstances concerning her book The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys. The allegations of plagiarism caused her to leave her position as a guest pundit on the PBS NewsHour program.” (Wikipedia)

        Of course Smilee will call this “pure garbage” because HE “NEVER HEARD OF IT.” Apparently, a fact is not a fact until Smilee HEARS OF IT.

        “What a maroon.” – Bugs Bunny

        • Smilee

          YOU GOT IT BACKWARDS IT WAS YOUR WORDS THAT I CALLED GARBAGE, ALL THIS IS IRRELEVANT TO WHAT MY ORIGINAL POST WAS AND AND A DIVERSION BY YOU AND OTHERS

  • Neil Swan

    Americans who don’t want to be Americans are stupid.

    Neil

  • http://Idon'tseeU.S.citizenswantingtosecedefromObama'sCommunist/SocialistNightmareasameaninglesseffort!ItletsmeandthousandsofotherPatrioticAmericansknowthatwearenotaloneinwantingthisTyrannicalDictator Teryll Baker

    I don’t think signing a petition to secede from the Union is a Meaningless Effort. It lets me know that there are thousands more Patriotic Americans that don’t want to be under the control of a Muslim Tyrannical Dictator and that if we stick together we can make a difference; even if it comes to Anarchy some day. We Americans that believe in a Constitutional Republic and Rule of Law are not happy being regulated to death and turned into a Communist/Socialist Country to satisfy a Revolutionary Imposter that has infiltrated our Country to destroy it from within with his massive debt build up and Redistribution of our wealth, while skirting around our Constitution & Laws.

    • Neil Swan

      What you have in mind is stupid.
      We are not under a muslim dictator and never have been.
      You just believe lies people tell you.
      Neil

      • Howlingmad

        Your comment makes “PAINFULLY” clear, that your nothing but a “LAP-DOG” . . . ( a “BLIND” Lap-Dog, at that . . . )

      • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

        Neil, back away from the Kool Aid Dispenser! You’ve had way over your limit!!

      • Karolyn

        The same might be said of you Dog.

        • Joe America

          Karolyn,

          I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Barry was brought up as a Muslim. Obama’s America:2016 is correct in explaining our president’s origins. That being said, I don’t believe he’s a Muslim, or a Christian. I believe he’s an Illuminist and therefore, a supporter of the new world order. He’s going to be the face of the NWO for a long, long time. The 22nd Ammendment will be put down and he’ll run for a third and forth term. Why will he be so popular? Well, because he’s going to transfer money from earners to non-earners. Forget about billionares and millionares. He’s coming after every penny the middle class has. Why? Because he wants to redestribute the working mans’ wealth. Since the majority of Americans are no longer able to support themselves, they will continue to vote for him, again and again. If you’re wondering how he’s going to get those extra terms of office, I believe he’ll sellect new Supreme Court Justices that will support his agenda. The fact is that the 22nd Ammendment isn’t Constitutional, anyway, so getting rid of it won’t be that big of a deal. Separation of powers negates the 22nd Ammendment. Karolyn, for you, you have my sympathy. You have a belief system, which is your right.

      • Smilee

        Joe America says:
        November 30, 2012 at 3:53 pm

        Karolyn,
        I hate to be the one to tell you this, but Barry was brought up as a Muslim.

        OBAMA WAS BROUGHT UP IN A CHRISTIAN HOME, HIS FATHER WAS A NON NONPRACTICING MUSLIM BUT HE DID NOT GROW UP WITH HIM IN THE HOME HE GREW UP WITH HIS MOTHER AND MOTHERS PARENTS WHO WERE CHRISTIANS AND OBAMA CLAIMS HE IS CHRISTIAN AND WITH THE EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THAT YOUR FAIRY TALES ABOUT IT RING TOTALLY HOLLOW AND ARE A VERY STUPID AS REALTY DICTATES OTHERWISE.

        Obama’s America:2016 is correct in explaining our president’s origins

        . THAT MOVIE IS A POLITICAL STATEMENT AND NOT A DOCUMENTARY AND IS FILLED WITH DISTORTIONS AND LIES

        That being said, I don’t believe he’s a Muslim, or a Christian. I believe he’s an Illuminist and therefore, a supporter of the new world order. He’s going to be the face of the NWO for a long, long time. The 22nd Ammendment will be put down and he’ll run for a third and forth term.

        UNLESS THE HOUSE AND SENATE LOSSES BIG TIME IN 2014 THIS CANNOT HAPPEN

        Why will he be so popular? Well, because he’s going to transfer money from earners to non-earners.

        THIS WAS DONE LONG BEFORE HE BECAME PRESIDENT AND THESE PROGRAMS YOU TALK ABOUT WHERE THE BRAIN CHILD OF THE GOP in the 80’s and 90’ WHEN THEY ENACTED THE EARNED INCOME CREDIT IN 1986 AND WAS SIGNED BY REAGAN AND A BUNCH OF THESE OTHER PROGRAMS IN THE 90’S LOBBED FOR BY THE BUSINESS LOBBIES SO THAT THE TAXPAYER WOULD NOW SUBSIDIZE THE WORKERS ALLOWING THE BUSINESS TO LOWER THEIR WAGES AND BENEFITS CAUSING THE WORKING POOR WHICH ARE THE FIRST WORKING CLASS WHOM IS ELIGIBLE FOR WELFARE, AND NOW YOU ARE IGNORING THAT HISTORY AND BLAMING IT ON OBAMA, SINCE HE GOT IN OFFICE NO NEW WELFARE PROGRAM HAS BEEN PUT INTO LAW HE IS ONLY ENFORCING GOP LAWS PASSED BEFORE HE CAME INTO OFFICE, THE GOP ALSO PASSED MANY LAWS GUTTING UNIONS MAKING IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO TURN TO UNIONS FOR HELP WHICH PEOPLE DID BEFORE WORKING POOR GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS AND THUS MAKING YOU AND I PAY FOR WHAT THE UNIONS USED TO MAKE COMPANIES PAY FOR, IT IS A LOT EASIER TODAY TO GO AND GET WELFARE THAN IT IS TO ORGANIZE A UNION BECAUSE OF THE RISKS NOW ON THE EMPLOYEE TO TRY AND DO SO.

        Forget about billionares and millionares. He’s coming after every penny the middle class has. Why? Because he wants to redestribute the working mans’ wealth. Since the majority of Americans are no longer able to support themselves, they will continue to vote for him, again and again. If you’re wondering how he’s going to get those extra terms of office, I believe he’ll sellect new Supreme Court Justices that will support his agenda. The fact is that the 22nd Ammendment isn’t Constitutional,

        HOW THE HELL DID YOU COME UP WITH THIS BALONY, SO UNREAL!!

        anyway, so getting rid of it won’t be that big of a deal. Separation of powers negates the 22nd Ammendment. Karolyn, for you, you have my sympathy. You have a belief system, which is your right.

        YOU ARE SO FAR OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE REAL WORLD ONE CAN ONLY CONCLUDE YOU ARE COMPLETELY DELUSIONAL.

        • Joe America

          You know, you can always tell when someone is a dyed in the wool liberal, because they get angry and very nasty when presented with the facts. Obama’s father was a drunken anti-colonialist/communist and poligamist. Eventually, the drunken slob killed himself in a car wreck. His mother was a liberal whore, whose parents were dyed in the wool communists. Frank Davis, a communist reporter and poet, was the drunken friend of Obama’s white grandpa. Both grandparents blessed the mentoring relationship between Frank Davis and Barry. Barry went to Malaysia with his mother and her new husband and Barry’s Muslim upbringing began. After that, mommy dearest dumped him on white grandma and grandpa and his communist influences resumed. I’m not going to get all medievil on your ass, jerking my head around and blarring my eyes with anger. I’ll leave that to fools, such as yourself. And make no mistake about it, you are a fool. There are none so blind, as those who refuse to see the truth. Our wonderful media, overseen by the NWO, has refused to vet this man and has covered a multitude of his sins. As for you, you’re just another groupie blinded by the wonder of having a half black man in the White House. I’d have felt better with Jessie Jackson, or even Al Sharpton, as I know they are Americans.

        • Joe America

          Is that “Simlee” or “Smelly?”

          • Smilee

            I reckon I left you speechless as you had nothing of any thing intelligent to respond with!!

          • Joe America

            Smilee, I realize that I can’t get a liberal to see the truth. Belief trumps logic.

          • Smilee

            And it will to until you get your head out of your a$$ and only then can the light of day shine on logic which in this case is the truth

      • Smilee

        Joe America says:
        November 30, 2012 at 4:46 pm

        You must hold the record on here today for the most lies told as this post is nothing but that. Shame on youi!!

  • david imlay

    Again Who needs permission to secede? Are you a slave to the POTUS and his corrupt government? Are you a slave to any organization that you are not a signatory on their contracts or Constitutions? Do you allow any other government or corporation or organization of which you are not a direct member of (if you are not named directly in their paperwork and signed to it) to have jurisdiction or authority over you?

    If you allow anyone else to tell you what you are going to do or are forced to do something of which you did not sign anything to give them that authority, then you are a slave to them, until you rebel and do something about it.

  • Sky

    Secede? Seems silly to petition the White House for this. Citizens should petition their state legislatures instead. Or put it to a vote of their state citizens.

    • http://personellibertyrights.com Rich

      totally agree with you and wish it were that easy, these foods who think Obama is their savior are in for a very frightening reality in the near future and then are going to feel awfully stupid, betrayed and slaves to a socialist dictator they helped put in office! I pray Texas does secede!

    • david imlay

      SKY: I wonder really. If you bow down to someone to ask their permission to do anything, are you not a slave to their domain or THEIR world and not your own?

      Seceding or separation from an oppressive government isn’t a good thing? It doesn’t mean you are not an American.

      You have to look at the Constitution as a Treaty for foreign commerce in all reality. That is mainly what the Constitution deals in is rules concerning foreign commerce. The Bill of Rights is not mentioned anywhere in the body of the Constitution, and those Bill of Rights are independent of commerce, as there is nothing in them that deals in commerce, so to speak. The Amendments are supposed to be able to change certain parts of the Constitution ie: 14th Amendment, 16th Amendment and so on afterwards pertains to items listed in the Constitution.

      Those Bill of Rights can not be taken away from you, unless you give those in authority permission to take them.

      Let’s not be legal on these matters as that changes the law without direct representation of all the people, through interpretation. If it is not written in the law, (of the law) it is not part of the law, and that is the Exclusionary Clause recognized in all courts. Judges try to legislate from the bench by using interpretation rather than using the law as it is written. If the law is vague then it needs enforced vaguely without specific events being added to the law, especially if the people have not approved the change “en toto”. The only ones with claims to interpretation of a legal sense are attorneys, through the fraternity of the ABA (American BAR Association) That is because their contract they all have signed infers that.

      • eddie47d

        As you stated David we do have the Bill of Rights and hundreds of other laws to petition to to address our grievances. Lawyers can help or hinder those endeavors and challenges can be extremely expensive. If someone wants to petition for separation then take it to court like a marriage. If enough people get on board on any issue they can change things. Seceding should be handled by individual states with the approval of your appointed Representatives. Going into the streets (rebellion) can work too but then they become the anarchists and usually lose more than they gain. If your Legislators don’t vote the way you want them too it could be that you are not of the majority opinion. It takes a lot of people to overcome any majority opinion and can take years. Look at all the protest against wars over the past few decades yet we still mindlessly get ourselves into those wars. Then we go out and do it again, (wars and protests) . Over the years I have seen those on the left and the right advocating for chaos. Some are sincere and courageous and some are dangerous and violent so be careful what we wish for.

    • Jim C

      Must say, I have to agree with that. The slave asking the master if her or she can be freed knowing that the master is not yet finished with his or her services is at the very least foolish. That isn’t where the power lies anyway.
      Your thesis is correct. The state tells the federal government that it seceding, they don’t ask it’s permission.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joelscopeland Joel Copeland

    As much as I deign to promote Conservative values and ideas, I find the lack of education amongst this particular group appalling. To SECEDE (look closely at my spelling, people!) from the Union is a question which has been settled for all time for this nation by the sacrifice of so many lives both for and against the SECESSION of the States; of which the majority of my esteemed ancestors fought-and died-in for the South’s right to secede. Now, when you talk about securing our BORDERS (again, note the proper spelling here!), we are aggravated by the need to be friends with our neighbors to the south, and yet stymie the flood of illegal immigrants.
    THEREFORE, I propose that work visas on both sides of the BORDER be made far more accessible than is currently under laws of both countries. In other words, tit-for-tat. If a Mexican can prove his or her ability to find and maintain work while in America, then that standard must be equally provided to allow Americans to enter into Mexico and to develop working relations and businesses there. Give each applicant from either country six months to a year to establish such an interest and prove that they can pay taxes to both countries for the privilege of maintaining a beneficial occupancy. If NAFTA allows companies to do it, then that largess should be disseminated equally to individuals with the skills to make a living.
    MEXICO can sponsor its hard-working immigrants; the US can sponsor people with skilled trades, education, and investment opportunities at hand to create a harmonious balance of resources between the two nations.

    • cawmun cents

      Incidentally I know how to spell secession,but the word looks much better in this case spelled,succession,why?
      Because Secession implies that you may fail.
      Sucession,does not imply that you will fail.
      Mexico is its own soverign nation and therefore you have no say in how it works its policy,so your argument both fails in its accuracy,and its intent from the beginning.
      Additionally,you are speaking of things which have little to do with the reasoning for secession.The reasoning of the south seceding in the 19th century had as little to do with slavery,as the illegal immigration has to do with the conditions present now.
      It is not one of heartsleeve human rights as those in power now would have you believe.
      Rather it is one of survival in a world of Socialism,and Despotism.
      You cannot have it both ways.You either have liberty or you lack liberty,and those who are busy convincing,or conniving as it were,a way for you to have both simultaneously,have dulled your sensibilities,and conned you into believing in that which cannot live in co-existence.
      Hence Succession is the only way out.
      To succeed is the only way you can have liberty.
      Wrap your head around that.
      Cheers!
      -CC.

  • cawmun cents

    Is it just me Chip,or are you living a life of illusion?
    Discouraging people from lowering a lifeboat from the Titannic and saving themselves?
    Comparing Goldwaters nomination and the point you believe conservatives to have made in recent times,with succession from this abomination that is currently happening today?
    There is a different paradox today,with another ingredient threatening to break your theories into tiny bits of dust.Its called liberal progressivism,and it has invaded the very core of the ideology of the thing you call todays conservatism.
    You have a tendency to see thing as going more than one way,but you cant see what is cut and dried before you….its not a shift in policy or thought that you are fighting against here,but one of indoctrination.And there is no substitute for shear madness like liberal progressivism,and you will find it supercedes and makes foolishness out of even hardcore religious doctrine for many of the citizens of this nation.
    They believe the tenants of progressivism even more thanthey believe in their God.
    It SEEMS right so it must therefore BE right,and they are not about to turn back now.
    This leaves you at a differing assumption of what true conservatism,vs.liberal progressivism
    will reveal in future days,and with an illusiory idea of how to fix them.
    The cry of sucession is not of some vaguaries of the past,but of the new feelings that again the north has decided to go against that path which the south sees as financially futile.
    If this were merely a supposition,then one could plainly see your point.
    Yet I sit in sunny California,watching it all happen as if in a dream of the past,knowing that this is not a path I wish to follow and will be glad to pick up and move south,even if it means another civil war.
    Ordinarily I wouldnt consider such a move a wise one,but look around you Chip,at all the people who couldnt tell the truth if it hit them in the head with a 2×4,and tell me it doesnt seem like the thing to do.
    Besides boredom,and a complete disregard for my personal feelings about the nature of this situation,it almost seems kind of romantic to go where the folks think differently than the ones running the show right now,doesnt it?
    Heck if that is the deep south where values still mean something,then move on over,and let me go there,because you are holding my dream of living a life of liberty with contempt.
    The very fact that you would say this on a conservative site shows me how little you are aware of the feelings in an Americans heart about what he stands to leave behind should he remain on this floating disaster we call America today.
    So if there is to be any succesion,let me be a part of it,and dont put down those of us who decide not to be part of the ones who feel its their duty to go down with the ship.
    I have to save my own backside,because I am certain that the Captain of this boat cant see the 90% of the iceberg we’re headed for.
    So act like a good neighbor and stay the hell out of my way while I abandon ship willya?
    Cheers!
    -CC.

  • Harry Kaufman

    Who thinks of this?? Well for one, those who have no life beyond their noses, limited American and Western Civilization education. Visit a classroom TODAY, ask the students for a definition of one line in Lincoln’s address, “A NATION DIVIDED AGAINST ITSELF CANNOT STAND” don’t be surprised at the responses of HUH!!!!!! Better yet ASK the Teachers, and parents the same question..

  • http://personellibertyrights.com Rich

    I think Dave and Neil are just on here to flap their liberal jaws and spew their racist, socialist views and to just try to cause some trouble! Its unbelievable how Nieve some people are and how they just gobble down all the lies of the liberal media and democrats are feeding them, what nice little pets they will make for this socialist dictator they so much admire.

    • Neil Swan

      I believe in treating people like people.
      I’m against the religious right and the tea party.
      It’s a good thing we don’t have too many people
      like you in this country Rich.
      Neil

      • bwheeler

        Neil, I also believe in treating people like people but not like slaves or followers of those in power who are ill-advised, unqualified and biased.

  • Howlingmad

    I have to say, that I find “CHIP’S” comments “VERY” DISAPPOINTING . . . by them, its clear, that he clearly DOESN’T understand what the movement is actually “ABOUT”. One other thing, hes NOT as “INFORMED” as he should be ABOUT what States are doing WHAT . . . EXAMPLE : My State of MONTANA, is “WELL” ahead of where we need to be, about the number of people needed to have signed. Things are moving along WELL here, an we have NO DOUBT, about getting the necessary amount needed. You’ve LOST a lot of points, with me, CHIP . . . I’d do some SERIOUS “RESEARCH”, before I commented again.

  • http://personellibertyrights.com Rich

    Dave why don’t you look up the executive orders Mr Obama has issued since being president! Executive order 16301 gives Obama the right to seize all forms of transportation, all agriculture (food) personal property, monies including peoples ira’s and savings, military, rights to buy and sell and much more, why don’t you take a look at all the executive orders he had put in place behind our backs with no media reporting it except fox! He (Obama) is just waiting to enact these orders at the right time, could be soon! They are already training trips to fire upon civilians, like I said you need to do some homework

    • http://personellibertyrights.com Rich

      Let me know when you get done looking up all the executive orders he has signed into law and tell me what you think then ok Dave?

    • Karolyn

      You wrote above about liberals swallowing everything their told. How about yourself? Obviously, you believe everything you read or see on the internet.

      • Joe America

        Karolyn,
        I understand loyalty, and you are loyal to Obama. He’s a brilliant, well spoken fellow. I love to hear him speak. He makes you want to like him. You want to hope that this guy is in your corner. I don’t want anyone to demonize him, just understand where he’s coming from. In his mind, he’s doing all the right things for this nation. I believe he’s misguided from his youth, which is not his fault. What I hope happens with him, is that he will have an epithany; an aha moment, which will provide a moment of clarity, which will lead him to make all the right decisions. This man will probably go down in history, as loved by the masses as FDR. Whether his accomplishments will be good for this nation, or not, remains to be seen. Karolyn, all I know is that he has had a Muslim upbringing and has had a Communist mentor, by the name of Frank Davis, who was a card carrying Communist. He surrounds himself by radical socialists and communists, as well as people that hate white people and capitalists. This worries people in the know. For folks that are oblivious to these facts, Obama’s just a Robinhood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. This is the guy you see.

  • general issue

    I am not saying we give up the fight…. I am just saying that this country is VERY different than what it was in the late 1950′s and early 1960′s… I am just saying let’s see what the people of Texas RALLY want TODAY (50 years later) and let’s find out SOON.

    I say let’s put it on the next election ballot.

  • general issue

    REALLY!

  • http://personellibertyrights.com Rich

    I am not blind and worry for my family as well as my own safety since I have spoken out against this administration and have signed many petitions for what I feel as a true blue American I had an obligation to do so. I realize I have put my life at stake but feel its worth it to preserve what our forefathers fought for and for our constitution and if it means moving to Texas or the mountains, so be it! I am sure I am not alone and add far add them taking away our guns good luck Torre it ain’t gonna happen period.

  • chuckb

    it should be obvious to everyone, barry is not a leader, he’s a rabble rouser. the people behind this fraudulent person are the new communist leaders, the ones we see in the administration are the pawns. we are in the process of losing the country and our liberties, we can’t depend on the vote, they have won the election with ignorant people and fraud at the ballot box.
    there is no other choice except secession or civil revolt, secession may lead to civil war, i can’t see these people letting any state withdraw from their control. i’m sure there are many in the military who will not use force against their fellow citizens so they may have
    problems using the military to control people who want to leave this un-union. that wasn’t so in the past, however, these are different times and i believe the men and women in the armed forces see what this guy is up too. the ones i have conferred with anyway.

  • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

    david imlay,

    “I am going to challenge you on the Sovereignty, because I know you have not read the “Law of Nations” (and is a Supreme Law of the Land per the Constitution) which deals directly into Sovereignty as is recognized by all empires universally.”

    Where, exactly, in our Constitution is this stated?

    • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

      Clause 2 of Article VI of the ORIGINAL Constitution: “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”

      • david imlay

        Thanks KB. That section states it and names the Law of Nations as a Supreme Law of the Land even though KB did not notate it in his comment. The Law of Nations is a 723 +/- page document on Sovereignty and was created as far back as the early 1300′s, although its later editions in the 1600′s was universally accepted.

        Every Nation with a civilized society has accepted this document as a guide and is why our Constitution lists it!

        • Joe America

          David,

          Thanks for your thoughtful and insightful information. I didn’t even know the Law of Nations existed.

          Thanks

      • JeffH

        A lot of the Framer’s thinking when constructing the Constitution was influenced by “The Law of Nations or the Principles of Natural Law (1758)- Emmerich de Vattel

        FYI, Vattel’s “Law of Nations” was also the basis for Framers inserting the “natural born citizen” eligibility requirement clause, Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution, to become President, Commander in Chief and Vice-President
        http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/vattel/

  • http://none william nelson

    “The right to petition your government is guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

    • david imlay

      Plus the right to assemble peacefully for any means, without restrictions. For the restrictions to be enforced, they need to be listed in the Amendment. They are not so, no restrictions can be administered, nor any law created to infringe those rights.

      • Smilee

        Restrictions as you define them not in the Constitution cannot be enforced, they can if congress makes laws describing how it can be done and they often have. There has to be a clause in the Constitution prohibiting them before congress is prohibited from doing so and that is not the case

  • Thomas Martin

    Our democracy no longer works. It is time to preserve our heritage and freedom…We can only to that by leaving and saving our liberities as a separate country…

    • david imlay

      TM : you don’t need to leave the country. The restrictions to creating empires and the like within the borders of this country were limited to those corporations and organizations REGISTERED with the Federal Government under this Constitution. If you notice, these restrictions are named in the commerce section of the Constitution. (nearly the whole body of the Constitution itself)

      Laws are recorded, but corporations and the like are REGISTERED. If you look at the name on your licenses and bills those names are identical to Corporate names; in all capital letters (except the Inc. notation) Those names are registered, not the human being. As a matter of fact if you use the name you are technically violating a copyright, since the government owns the name through registration of it! When you registered your name, you gave up all rights to use it, except for necessity.

    • david imlay

      TM: Democracy has never worked. Since when do the majority of the people know exactly what you think or are gonna say, let alone do ahead of time? Who can make those choices for you? Only you and you alone. No one else can decide for you what is best so, what makes democracy so great? Democracy is a failure in all respects.

      Meritocracy has more value really since all the values associated with it are determined by the merits brought to it by each individual. So individual merit or ability is more valuable to oneself than anyone’s own value shared. In meritocracy you only take what you need to continue on from what is brought to the table, and everybody participates in order to survive, not just a few!

      • Jim C

        The problem with democracies is that at some time 51% will realize that they can live off of 49% if they vote for the people that will promise them the most.

  • T. Jefferson

    All this does is give obama a ready list of those who oppose him. A list of those to round up first.

    • Karolyn

      Get Real!

    • eddie47d

      T. won’t tell us who the right wing militias will pick up and dispose off.

  • http://PersonalLiberty Donnie

    Chip,can I ask you this.If Conservatives like smaller government why would Reagan and Bush 2 be conservative.They both increased the size of the Federal Government.When will the people learn that the republican party is not a fiscal conservative party.They are only conservative on social issues.Maybe the republican sheep are too dumb to see this.Keep blaming everything on Liberals.Be an Independent and stay away from both parties.

  • Charlene Naylor

    You say it is a waste of time and money and hurting liberty? How much money does it cost to sign a petition and how much time does it take? How does it hurt liberty when it is a good example of people wanting to hold on to their freedom which is the reason this country started. It also shows there are thousands of people who are willing to take a stand for what they want; our country back from what is quickly becoming dictatorship. I am glad to see there are still people in our country aware of what is happening and willing to fight against it. It may not work but at least people have taken a stand which is more than a lot of the people are doing, proven by how they voted, for death of America and themselves in the end. Nobody wins in a dictatorship except the dictator and his minions.

  • Stuart C. Ashley

    Hi Chip;
    It takes no money and hardley and effort to sign a petition. I don’t think the USA would ever concur with secession of any of the states. However, the point is being made that a lot of people are very unhappy with the way the federal government and the two major political parties are performing these days. If the government gets the message, some good might come of it. As far as which states have the “right” to secede, hardly any of them. However Texas came into the union with the caveat that they could reverse the decision at any time, and Alaska came in under a flawed process. I expect these two are closest to having a “right to secede.”
    Cheers! Stu.

  • Jim C

    How about this idea?
    How about if every state passed legislation requiring each citizen to pay their federal taxes as well as their state taxes to the state? That way the state could decide whether to and how much to send to the federal government. If each state did this we could strangle the federal government back to the size and duties that they are constitutionally responsible for. They would have to cut almost every program and department that has been put in place since the war for states rights (the civil war for those of you who are uneducated). There would be no way for the federal government to counter this if every or almost every state did it. The federal bureaucracy would shrink to negligible numbers and the states would have to re-assert their rights as well as become responsible for their duties.
    Each state should also require it’s federal representatives to stay within the borders of that state for at least 50 weeks per year. An office in the state capital for each senator and an office for each representative in each district. Given communication capabilities available today those representatives could go about their duties pretty much unencumbered. All communications, however, should be made public (other than those involving national secrets and sensitive national defense issues) but our representatives should not be allowed to physically get together to avoid the penchant that elected officials have for hatching nefarious deals that benefit them at the expense of the taxpayer. This would make it harder for lobbyists to do what they do and would make it easier for constituents to contact their representatives.
    What do you think?

  • chuckb

    naylor, stick around, if these politicians continue this charade and tax this country into a depression, you will see there are still a lot of people willing to make changes.
    the ballot is no longer viable, this has become corrupt, it should have been obvious when the bolsheviks fought voter id

    secession would be the bloodless way and avoiding civil conflict, however, if that fails then people will have to take the necessary steps to regain their freedom. at present we are at the mercy of a nation full of people with their hands out and expecting private enterprise to feed them.

    the black messiah is back on the teleprompter stirring up the mentally deficient inmates,
    the congress is plotting to find a way to compromise without the conservatives understanding they just got violated again.
    i think it’s time to let them have it, if some states can secede then they will survive their liberty, otherwise we will be living under a communist type government something like venezuela..

    • Jim C

      Talking to my wife about this subject this afternoon. She seems to think that this nation will be in chaos before we get this guy out of office. I told her that even if chaos doesn’t appear odds are that the next president we have will be just like this one because the electorate has gotten used to being rewarded with other people’s stuff for voting the right way.
      I also told her that chaos may not be such a bad thing in that vigilance committees and groups like the original KKK would spring up quickly and the hanging tree would get well used. Local governments would quickly take control and, because there are a lot of veterans who came back from war knowing how to make IEDs and such, the military may become less willing to go against the citizens if ordered to do so. Might not be too bad after all.

    • SarahR

      We’ve tried everything else. We waited patiently for Justice Roberts answer and it was the wrong answer. We waited patiently for the election and the wrong man was elected. Now we’re asking to secede and they are ignoring us. Conservatives and LIbertarians have to merge and create one party. Our government is not going to do one thing for us we have to do it ourselves. We need a leader. How about Ron Paul? We have to do something and we have to do it soon

  • Old Henry

    Texas secede? Hmmm. Doubtful. Remember when they were going to make the TSA perverts groping illegal? Holder threatened to make Texas a no-fly zone. They almost ran over each other running away from their idea. To use their words it appears Texas is all hat and no cattle.

    The landslide of ’64. I remember. We elected the guy who was knee-deep in JFK’s murder. What a stellar moment for us. He then did what he promised the MIC, and others and began the systematic slaughter of tens of thousands of young U.S. military personnel and countless hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese to enrich the MIC and himself.

    By ’66 we wondered how he got elected. No one could find anyone who voted for him.

    Pick our battles? Most likely will not work.

    There is a new term to describe where we are now. I received it in an email this morning. Some of you may have seen it as well.

    Ineptocracy
    (In-ep-toc’-ra-cy)
    A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves, or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

    That is November 6, 2012 in a nutshell.

    • http://www.archivale.com/weblog Marc de Piolenc

      Just because Texas politicians are lacking in … substance doesn’t mean Texans are. Besides, the last word on TSA fondling hasn’t been said yet, even at the political level. Many Texans have come to understand that the FedGov’s no-fly zone threat is pure bluff – the Union needs Texas fully as much as, and perhaps more than Texas needs the Union.

      • Old Henry

        Marc:

        I truly hope you are correct.

        However, after reading several articles regarding the anti-secetion comments / petitions put forth from “Texans” across the state I still have my doubts. It seems that you have been over-run by liberals, aka communists.

        I was told a while back that being a Texan is not necessarily being born in Texas, it is a state of mind as well. And after an hour visiting he said he came to the conclusion that I have the mind-set of a Texan. I thanked him for the compliment.

  • http://www.archivale.com/weblog Marc de Piolenc

    I respectfully disagree, Sir Chip. Granted that the petitions themselves are futile – they’re addressed to the Usurper-in-Chief, after all. But as a vehicle for coalescing a movement that didn’t exist a few months ago they are unexcelled, and I am willing to bet that butt is being kicked at the White Asylum as I write this for not having nipped this thing in the bud. I think we will see results from this – not mediated by Obummer, but by people who have essentially “met” on the White House Web site.

  • Paulie4

    I thank that many people realize that while we still live in a country called America it really isn’t, “America” and the succession movement gives people a chance to say that they care deeply about values, not just going along with whatever the majority decides. I read once that about one third of the nation was in favor of going to war against England in 1776; one third was for the British and one third just wanted to be left alone. The one third in favor of secession won the day and we’ve had a remarkable run of liberty because of it. While those of us who value the principles that America was founded upon have won some elections we have lost the culture. There are now a majority of U.S. citizens who do not vote in favor of individual liberty. The question for the rest of us is do we go along with them or do we, like our Forefathers, draw a line in the sand?

    • Old Henry

      Yes Paulie4, it does appear that we have lost the culture. However, we have also lost control of our elections. This last one was most likely won by massive vote fraud in key areas. The Obamabot MSM has ignored this fact, but the alternative media has not.

      Unless the states get away from computer / touch screen voting and get back to paper ballots the fraud will only get worse. I would guess that if some investigative reporter(s) really got digging they would find that Soros was involved in the companies that made the voting software.

      • Donald

        Voter fraud….a myth, much like the religious myths your party clings to hopefully, wishing that GOD will come save a country that just merely needs to cooperate.

      • Old Henry

        Voter fraud and God a myth, Donald?

        Voter fraud is a reality and has been reported on by numerous internet news outlets. Countless numbers of voters reported their vote for Romney on touch screens registered for Obama. And… those are just the ones we know about.

        There were several instances in a Cincinnati suburb where voters were tod they had already voted absentee. Not just one, but voter after voter.

        Sorry to hear you think the Creator of the universe is a myth. I do not want to be around when you exhale for the last time.

        • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

          Especially when he wakes up on the other side! It takes strength and conviction to know that God exists and Nature has its own way of eliminating the weak!!

          • Donald

            Sorta like the way we eliminated McCain/Palin and Romney/Ryan.

        • Donald

          Internet news…laughable..as reliable as a Rush Limbaugh segment.

          • Daniel from TN

            Laughable only to Liberals, not intelligent people.

          • Donald

            I have seen nothing from you and yours that would lend credence to your claims of intelligence.

      • DaveH

        Donald says — “Internet news…laughable..as reliable as a Rush Limbaugh segment”.
        Much more “laughable” are comments from self-interested Liberal Progressives who have no credibility.

  • Karolyn

    That’s really weird. I responded to a post that totally disappeared, and it wasn’t something that needed moderation.

  • DaveO

    No, secession is not the answer, open revolt is the answer. This is no longer a government of the people, it a government against the people. Time to replace the ” I know whats good for you” jerks with some common sense people. You know people that can make their paycheck work to pay bills and put a little away for thier kids college fund and maybe a little into savings. Common sense people that can understand what the Constitution says and means. The Constitution is full of simple words that when put together has a lot of meaning. For all the smart people here, I’m sorry I wrote this in simple terms, but I had to make it simple so our libtard friends can understand.

    • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

      Work for me! Now let’s get another million plus patriots to agree and we got us a party!

    • Old Henry

      I had one of those common sense, citizen legislator, reps in the House and on November 6 he was replaced by a Communist Party hack after one term.

      However, I do live in the communist enclave known as The Land of Stincoln, where our governors make our license plates.

    • Daniel from TN

      There is a way to revolt legally, and without bloodshed. It is called a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. Even if a convention occurs and it fails to produce change, at least history will record the people TRIED to produce change without bloodshed.

      • Donald

        By all means, revolt, I would love to see all of you lying in the streets, tiny brains scattered about the landscape.

        • Daniel from TN

          How about reading the ENTIRE posts. I’m not advocating revolution, war, or bloodshed, regardless of what term you want to use. I am urging peaceful, non-violent attempts to reign in an out of control federal government. A government that has repeatedly and boldly crossed its Constitutionally established limits. A government that thinks its power is now absolute. A government that thinks the Constitution is a nuisance to their plans.

          • Donald

            Where were you people during the last administration…you know, the one that actually laid the ground work for all the “unconstitutional actions”? Yea, you were all silent…cause it wasn’t a big deal till the black guy got elected.

          • Daniel from TN

            I, and others, protested when GW suggested something unconstitutional, such as NCLB.
            When i state Congress has overstepped its boundaries I’m also talking about the times before “the black guy,” before GW, and before Clinton.
            Speaking of “the black guy,” there are now over 200 DOCUMENTED occurences of him violating the Constitution and federal law. Google it for yourself: I know you won’t take my word for it.
            FYI. There are several Black people I would support for president. I even donated to the campaign fund for one earlier this year.

          • Donald

            Ok. I apologize to you specifically if I offended you. It is good to see that someone knows where blame needs to be placed, and properly attributed. The problem, as you say, is not just Obama…it has gone back far longer. Most forums like this seem to focus on the current President…

          • Daniel from TN

            Apology accepted.
            In regards to your other concern: Sometimes people just need to vent. For some people It is simply convenient to vent on whoever is the current president.

          • Donald

            True, but secession, revolution or, as some call for, harm to the President really isn’t the answer. Tearing this country apart is the last thing we should be trying to accomplish. It may, however, become inevitable.

          • Daniel from TN

            Now we are on the same page. The only thing I am doing is urging the states to convene a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION so things that need changing can be changed without bloodshed.
            BTW. Eight states have now stated they are ready to call for a convention.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            Where were we? Demanding the arrest and prosecution of Bush for war crimes, murder, treason, mass murder, impeachment for lying (as Clinton was being impeached for) and other constitutional “proble,ms”, calling for the Patriot Act, Guantanamo, torture, etc to all be stopped and those who participated in the slightest degree in any of it to be arrested and prosecuted.

            But I bet you were one of those making fun of us, angry at us because we dared to that after 9/11.

            Where you>

          • Donald

            First, fat lot of good that did you. Still, as time goes by I am more inclined to believe that all of 911 was a con job set up by people more powerful than Bush. But that doesn’t mean Bush wasn’t aware of it. It was the perfect excuse to focus wrath towards people of a different religion and start the processes that have greatly diminished our ability to live with any semblance of privacy. So, if you are angry at “government” as a whole, fine, I understand. If you are merely angry at the current President because you lost and you don’t feel you “agenda” is being pushed forward then I say get over it. You don’t secede because you think one administration is not doing the job correctly (as defined by your party ideology), you wait and run a better candidate in four years to lead in the manner you think is correct. Losing the two party system would be a great start. Losing the wealthy’s power in government would be better.

          • Smilee

            government that has repeatedly and boldly crossed its Constitutionally established limits. A government that thinks its power is now absolute. A government that thinks the Constitution is a nuisance to their plans.

            Please explain what and how Constitutional limits have been exceeded, Obama care was found to be Constitutional so that is within its limits, We so often hear these statements on here but never any definition of what you actually mean, it make is sound like nothing more than angry statements from people filled with hate. Please enlighten us so we can understand what you mean.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            “Please explain what and how Constitutional limits have been exceeded”

            Article III, Section 1 of the Constitution,
            which states: “The judicial Power of the United States shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.”

            First the Supremes gave themselves power by:
            have established “precedent” power that requires future justices to honor previous rulings regardless of whether they are right or wrong, and only change or reverse rulings in extreme circumstances.

            No where we they given the power to decide what the US Constitution means. The actual power Marbury v. Madison says they have is:
            The powers of the government are limited by the Constitution.
            The Constitution is “the fundamental and paramount law of the nation, and consequently…an act of the legislature repugnant to the constitution, is void.” (This says that ALL laws must follow the US Constitution.)
            It is “the supreme law of the land,” and any act of the government must be consistent with it. (This verifies that the Constitution of the United States is the supremem law of this land, NOT the federal government. Since the people are sovereign, “We the People” have the last say what the US Constitution means.)
            Only those acts made “in pursuance of” the Constitution also have this rank.
            It is higher than the government and its laws, for the Constitution created both.

            {Literally speaking it is possible for the legislature to create an unconstitutional law. There must be a way to prevent the legislative branch from imposing an unconstitutional law on the nation. To this end the Marshall court introduces the doctrine of judicial review. “It is,” the Chief Justice noted, “emphatically the province of the judicial department to say what the law is.” Constitutiondenied)

            Judges, when they rule on laws, must often choose between the Constitution and a law.
            Since the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, they must invariably choose to enforce the Constitution and ignore the law. (Means that they must choose the constitution every time, not the law)
            Doing so renders the law null and void, because all other judges must do the same. (means that if it is unconstitutional it is illegal and “null and void”.
            Someone must determine if a law is in pursuance of the Constitution, and judges, by their position and training are in the proper place to do so. (Means that someone must determine if a law is following the Constitution)

            Remember illegal laws can be made and enforced if the law enforcement and military are either: ignorant of our government and its Supreme Law status – hard to be since they took the Oath to Support and Defend it, or aiding and abetting the destruction of our legitimate governmnet – a domestic enemy of the USA.

          • Smilee

            I’m laughing so hard my sides hurt, you remind me of a dog chasing its tail making itself dizzy and dizzy you are. You are talking in circles and nothing you say aside from acknowledging the Constitution is the Supreme law which all law must be covered by is correct. he rest is nothing but garbage and should be treated as such without a response.

        • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

          Donald, if yo like dictatorships, etc this world is full of them – please pick one and YOU leave.

          America is the only country in this world that has individual freedom UNDER our LEGITIMATE government, the Constitution of the United States. The temp workers (yes, better lifestyel better pay, some prestige – still temp workers) we put into office are supposed to carry out the duties assigned to each BRANCH by the blueprint for our government.

          NOr can they LEGALLY take more power for themselves, but they have been over decades. What we have today is our fault (or our parents, grandparents) for allowing it to go on without arresting the corrupt ones that were in office. They all saw to it that more corrupt people were put into office so that we now have a “gang” of criminals in office.

          If you like Obama, remember many liked Bush, and lots more liked Clinton – con artists have to be likeable to run their con. You don’t trust someone you don’t like. But if you look at their actions you see the corruption and criminal, civil offenses they all committed – including treason, murder, war crimes, mass murder, etc.

          Because both the legislative branch and the judcial branch were given constitutional remedies to stop those types of actions (impeachment), and the normal ones prosecution, and used neither means that they too are corrupt.

          A constitutional convention would mean we clean house at pretty much one time and still can keep our legitimate government while dropping all the illegal “stuff” they put into amendments, bils, beauracracies they created, the federal reserve, etc.

          • Donald

            America is the only country in this world that has individual freedom UNDER our LEGITIMATE government, the Constitution of the United States.

            Amusingly the rest of your post denigrates the entire government, its processes and the country that elects the leaders. You leave. You will never be satisfied with the government of our United States because it is being run by the RICH, and they aren’t changing the process any time soon.

      • BR549

        Daniel,
        The globalist corrupted members of Congress have been eagerly awaiting a Constitutional Convention because just as with the ignorance during elections, there would be little to stop them altering that founding document to more easily bring the country under the dictates of the UN’s Agenda21.

        While a Constitutional Convention might seem appropriate for intelligent and honest legislators to make intelligent and well-meaning changes for an informed and involved population, it would spell disaster for a voting mesmerized dumbed-down population which actually believed that either Obama or Romney could actually represent their interests.

        Had NEITHER of these two globalist stooges come to the political forefront, it might have sent the globalists a message that the population wasn’t buying the pablum and that the population would have been too wise to their globalist shenanigans.

        But as is typical, the ignorant grain-belt bible-thumpers will continue to blindly support Bush, McCain, Romney or anything that remotely promises to resemble some vestige of days gone by, while the libtards at the other end of the spectrum will gladly march over a cliff following anyone playing anything close to a progressive tune, even if that tune is Deutschland Uber Alles or winds up castrating the very system they were trying to support.

        • Daniel from TN

          Congress would not be involved with a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. A convention would be controlled directly by the states. The states are only legally required to inform Congress they have convened a convention.

          • BR549

            Daniel wrote: “Congress would not be involved with a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION.

            While Congress wouldn’t necessarily be involved, the fact remains that during the original convention, the majority of those representing the states were prior members of the Confederation Congress and the majority of THOSE were wealthy land owners. So, when I made the statement about having to deal with the “globalist corrupted members of Congress”, how exactly would you weed out the traitors from within that group so that we don’t wind up having those globalist minions writing Agenda21 right into our new Constitution? It would just be S.S.D.D.

      • DaveH

        Donald says — “By all means, revolt, I would love to see all of you lying in the streets, tiny brains scattered about the landscape”.

        Another violent Liberal Progressive comes out of the closet. Thanks, Donald, for exposing yourself.

        • Donald

          My family has guns. I have no qualms separating hateful pinheads like yourselves from their unused brains.

          • Donald

            I haven’t seen any patriots here to worry about, honestly.

  • Little Bright Feather

    You do not “petition” DC for “permission” to leave its union – you just Declare and leave and you do not have to even have a reason . THAT is FOUNDERS LAW ! The Union that was created by the States has always been VOLUNTARY and still is. If it were not that would mean that the child DC is imprisoning their parents, the States ! States are who have the power, not DC. The only powers DC has are those few that were DELEGATED to it in the Constitution. Anything outside of that is Treason ! But only a slave uses a “Petition” for anything – a Petition is BEGGING FOR PERMISSION from the Master to do something ! DC is NOT “the Master” – the States are ! Let’s get that straight from the start !

    • Old Henry

      LBF:

      There has been a lot said, and reiterated by Chip, that 50 states have begun petitions, but nothing has been mentioned of the other seven states that only Little Barry Soetoro knows of…

      Come to think of it, maybe THATS how he got “re-elected”…

      • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

        //There has been a lot said, and reiterated by Chip, that 50 states have begun petitions, but nothing has been mentioned of the other seven states that only Little Barry Soetoro knows of…

        Come to think of it, maybe THATS how he got “re-elected”…//
        Naw, he was elected by the leeches of society. You know, the 47% that Mitt referred to but didn’t back up. That part of our nation that has become worthless scum sucking cockroaches that have crawled up out of the toilet to expose themselves and their lying leader, the great imposter Obama.

        • Donald

          With a little luck, one of those “cockroaches”, will end you.

          • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

            Briiing It, Punk!!!

      • Old Henry

        Yes Rocquedog, the leaches had a lot to do with it.

        Sadly, they are too ignorant to realize they have been put in chains, not by the GOP, but by the Democrats, and kept down on the “guvment plantation”.

        We now have a system of government know as “Ineptocracy”.

  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    “Chip Wood,”

    SIR, SINCE YOU WANT US TO FORGET ABOUT SECESSION, WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO WITH OUR “PINNED-UP” ANGER?

    Personal Liberty HAS A THREAD WHICH DISCUSSES RACE RIOTS. THE KENYAN’S “OCCUPATION” IN THAT HOUSE HAS DEFINITELY MADE THE “COLOR LINE” CRYSTAL CLEAR.

    “Mr. Wood,” WHEN A PERSON HAS “GUT-FILLED” ANGER [BASED ON RACIAL BIAS], REQUIRING SECEEDING STATES TO PAY THEIR SHARE OF THE NATIONAL DEBT IS NOT IMPORTANT.

  • Steve Schitt

    Actually, the main people that are talking about cessation, are for evicting the federal government from the U.S…. and all that takes is 34 states to form a CONSTITUTIONAL CONGRESS, OUTSIDE OF CONGRESS, THE WHITE HOUSE, AND THE SUPREME COURT.. So, asking the federal governemt for permission to peacefully secceed is just the first step…. stay tuned…

  • Old School

    I would just like to know where you were when Bush was doing the very same things? Now all of a sudden you are against the same policies that were simply continued from the last administration. Thank God I’m a Libertarian because if you are going to continue calling what Reagan and the Bush family did as “conservative”, I don’t want anything to do with the Republicans anymore.

    • Old Henry

      Old School:

      I was not here during GW’s tenure as I did not find out about PLD until early in 2010, but in the time I have been “attending class” here at the “Livingston Institute” I have seen VERY little, if anything, positive about GW Bush, or hs old man.

      As far as Reagan, I think he started out on the right path, but after they attempted to kill him I think he had “the rules” explained to him, qhite possibly while he was in the hospital recovering. He then decided he could do more good alive, than dead, and tried to make the best of it.

    • SarahR

      Right you are, old school. We need the conservatives and libertarians to merge and form one party. After all, we all want America and our constitution back. We need a leader. How would Ron Paul sound to everyone? Did you read his farewell speech? He is a good man and believer in the constitution but we have to hurry.

      • Daniel from TN

        I like many of the things Ron Paul says but I cannot support him for president: He is simply too old. I see evidence that his age is already affecting him mentally, just as it does others his age.

        • Jim C

          I beg your pardon.

  • ralph schindler sr

    In the beginning 13 areas in the place called north america groups of people became displeased with their military and government controllers and decided to start a republic similar to Rome & Pharo peoples. I think that LA. TX. & OK. with help of the new russian tzar could form a New World Order like Lincon did!

  • Carl Manning – Sic Semper Tyrannis

    Chip misses the point entirely. The American People no longer have ANY FAITH THAT IN ANY POLITICAL PARTY IN THE DISTRICT OF CRIMINALS WILL EVER REPRESENT THEM OR THE US CONSTITUTION. The American people no longer have faith that the military will abide by its own oaths of office to defend the Constitution from allenemies foreign AND DOMESTIC. Therefore, Secession is their lastresort and the only proper response before all-out Revolution, which is just what the Criminals in the District of Criminals want us to do. we mujst do everything in our power to avoid giving these control freak psychopaths an excuse for martial law and mass genocidal murder and incarceration in the FEMA camps. Chip’s column naively assumes there is somehow still hope that the GOP will someday come around to becoming a “Conservative” political party. Chip, wake up and smell the hot scalding coffee before they have to throw it in your face. The GOP is an utterly useless and ridiculous instrument for Liberty and the US Constitution. Have you not witnessed their behavior and complicity regarding Obamaforgerygate for the past 4 years??? ALL OF THE APOSTATE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is nothing more than a tyrannical dictatorship disguised as a “democratic republic”. The propaganda press is a damn joke, and is also in on the deal. This is a conspiracy of massive proportions extending even to the State level. IT SCREAMS FOR A MILITARY COUP D’ETAT A LA VALKYRIE. The TEA Parties were co-opted from the get-go and thus subsequently politically neutralized by the GOP and the Propaganda media. If the idiots running the TEA parties had any common sense, they would have gonme Third Party from the start, and you would not be seeing Boehner playing reindeer games with Obama. In fact, you would see more and more Third Party candidates running for office AGAINST the Establishment psycho criminals in BOTH parties in the District of Criminals. The GOP is long overdue a political divorce. The trouble is that there still are so many fools like Chip who suffer from Battered Voter Syndrome with the GOP. As the Bible says about sinners, they are like dogs returning to eat their own vomit every two years. They just don’t know when it’s time to go. What’s that definition of insanity again???

    • Daniel from TN

      I have a question for Personal Liberty Digest. I want an answer and I believe others will want an answer as well. I have been making my comments on this site for over two years. However, lately everytime I try to put the words “constitutional convention” into a comment your website goes completely haywire and my entire disappears befor I have finished it. Why is that?

      • Daniel from TN

        Sorry about the TYPO. The last sentence of my previous post should read “… your website goes completely haywire and my entire post disappears before I have finished it.”

    • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

      Your logic is sound and at this point, it appears that a “coup” is our best hope. However, if that doesn’t work and God doesn’t intervene, Revolution must “be on the table”.

      • Old Henry

        Rocquedog, I am not sure the American people have the spine for a revolution.

        However, if the commie Kenyan begins sending the blue helmets around the country the will may come to fruition.

        • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

          Mark my words OH that there are millions of us, vets, retd. and active law enf (oathkeepers), hunters, sportsmen and women, 2nd. Amend. rights advocates, etc., etc. that are willing to move when it’s time. I suspect that all we are waiting for is another Concord/Lexington incident to mobilize. And each time the Imposter pulls one of his illegal manuevers, that time gets closer. Be ready! It won’t be long now.

          • Donald

            Gun nuts, religious zealots, UNITE. Unite to murder your fellow citizen because they DARED vote for someone legally. It would be nice to just nuke you all into oblivion, but that would make us like you…and kill too many innocent people in the process.

          • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

            //DARED vote for someone legally// And here we have an example of what liberals call voting legally. Massive Voter Fraud in Va., Fla., Oh., etc, etc. “Accidentally” losing hundreds of thousands of military ballots, ballot machines geared to vote for Ovomit, etc, etc. You libs really are ignorant to think that we’d not catch on to this crap!

          • Donald

            Your word, is not proof. The idea of voter fraud is a myth perpetuated by morons and the right wing as yet another scare tactic. I get it, you hate the President and you will say anything that allows you to feel better about yourself. It’s a shame the country has come to this. On one side, a group that is trying to do the best for the whole country. On the other side, a group of children that work only for the rich and their twisted view of what they thought the forefather’s vision of America was. A group who seem to think that “God” is missing from our country and that, if we could just get him back, everything would be hunky-dory once more. The idea that they will do everything possible to separate this nation and accuse the other side of “cheating, destroying freedom and constitutionality” is frightening. Their willingness to send this country into further recession to prevent marginal tax rates on the most wealthy of its citizens from rising a tiny amount is pure insanity.

            And yet, they still miss the big picture. It is not any political party that is the problem, as they are both equally inept and dangerous in ideas, it is the RICH who are running it all and represent the most virulent threat to our freedom and our nation. But, whatever makes you feel good, I know you are insecure. I can forgive you for your hatred.

          • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

            Yo. Donald. I agree with your assessment of the rich being that primary causative factor in our problems, however, I do not Hate the Interloper. I hate what he does and the evil that he represents. He is destroying our country, dividing our people and eliminating the Constitution, paragraph by paragraph. And thank you for forgiving me, as I’m just a weak Christian trying to do the best I can to stop the madness. Unfortunately, I’m not perfect but in this case you have nothing to forfive me for as the only one I’ve sinned against is the evil that inhabits our WH. For that I’ll answer to someone of higher authority than yourself.

          • Donald

            You certainly have the right to your beliefs and opinions are, thankfully, still allowed in this country. But I honestly hope that you don’t believe that Romney would have been any better to lead the country. Seriously….

          • Joe America

            Donald, Please grow up. Voting fraud is an American tradition and it’s been going on since the beginning of this nation. In the words of Stalin “It’s Not the People Who Vote that Count; It’s the People Who Count the Votes”. Voting fraud has been practiced by both parties every since their parties began. Sadly, it’s so easy to do, because not only does every state have it’s own board of election rules, but counties within each state have varying ballots and voting machines. Our voting system is a mess. That being said, it’s the best mess in the world.

          • Daniel from TN

            Speaking of voter fraud, here’s some food for thought.
            1. 17 states have announced they will not send anyone to the Electoral College until they are sure who actually won the election in their state. They want all of the rumors and official accusations of voter fraud resolved before declaring an official winner.
            2. Electors to the Electoral College are NOT legally obligated to vote for the person who won their state. A few electors in states won by obama have stated they will not vote for obama during the College because they are now convinced obama won only due to voter fraud.

          • Smilee

            UNREAL!! UNREAL!!!

          • Daniel from TN

            Smilee – You have responded to a few of my posts with the same two words: “UNREAL!! UNREAL!!” Because of this I must now ask you this simple question: POLLY WANT A CRACKER?

          • BR549

            Rocquedog wrote: “And each time the Imposter pulls one of his illegal manuevers, that time gets closer.”

            Remember, brother, that these people that are causing all the trouble are counting on the confusion in our being able to recognize friend from foe; not being able to tell a conscious patriot from one of the myriad of Obama’s brain-dead zombies. These globalists just want the population killed off and they don’t care how it is done, so what better way to do it than spread propaganda that their fellow countrymen are their enemy; no matter which side it is received on. I’m not so concerned about the grain-belt bible-thumbers because they, at least, are more likely to own and be able to operate a firearm …… as opposed to the Obamazoids, who only know how to willingly turn in their guns and bend over with a Vaseline jar. And too, there are those hard core Romney supporters who haven’t yet figured out that he too was one of Rockefeller’s globalists.

            So, we have a daunting task ahead of us; to educate as many people as possible as quickly as possible. Remember, it isn’t just Obama that is to blame. This last stampede toward globalism started when Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz (all three from the Nixon Administration) undermined Reagan’s eight years in office; secretly helping to morph FEMA from the disaster relief agency it was sold to the US public as under Carter, into a mysterious black financial hole into which US tax dollars have been uncontrollably funneled for over 30 years.

        • BR549

          Old Henry wrote: “However, if the commie Kenyan begins sending the blue helmets around the country the will may come to fruition.”

          Those blue helmeted “peace-keepers” will be mercenaries, to be sure. Obama, just like the Bushes and Clinton before him, have known all along what this outcome was because they’ve been all too willing to pander to Rockefeller’s and the Rothschild family’s globalist plans to dominate the planet. And since the whole raft of these traitors has knowingly sold us and our Constitution out for wealth and power for themselves, they are beyond despicable.

          Those mercenaries parading around as “peace keepers”, will have absolutely no problem blasting through your front door or shooting US citizens on sight. And where will our trained service people be? Fighting one trumped up war after another to keep them occupied and, importantly, NOT HERE at home when the plug gets pulled. The ads on TV lately are promoting scenes of helping fellow citizens during times of disaster, but all we have to look at is the government’s track record in taking these well-meaning young inductees and shuffling them overseas as well, to And for all those shaved-headed neanderthals who think they are somehow impervious to all this and that their families will be spared ……. good @#$&ing luck; everyone in the eyes of the globalists is expendable; everyone.

          The “plan” (this is THEIR plan, mind you) calls for the dissolution of all US military branches and everyone will have to serve in the army of the New World Order; the UN. For anyone in the Marines, Rangers, or Seals, I would think that they would be particularly bitter, since the whole tradition for which they had joined and fought, along with their code of valor, was being tossed aside for banking and corporate interests. In the end, all we have is each other and our country and we have to stand together. As it is said, “If we don’t stand for something, we will fall for anything.”

          What is happening here is that if ANYONE looks like he will come close to assuming the presidency, if he isn’t willing to play ball with these people, or he develops a conscience later in the game as JFK did, his days are numbered …… probably in two digits.

  • Warfighter

    Folks,

    Like it or not, there is a GLOBALIST, NWO puppet in the White House, and if the LAST 4 YEARS has been any indication…WE’RE [expletive deleted] if we allow ourselves to be subjected to ANOTHER 4 YEARS of this FOREIGN BORN, ILLEGITIMATE, INCOMPETENT, SUBSPECIES MORON, AND HIS BILDERBERG OWNED CRONIES LIKE PELOSI, REID, FRANK, AND THE REST OF THOSE NEOCONS AND RINO’S IN D.C.

    Folks…whether you choose to FACE THE TRUTH, or BURROW YOUR HEADS FURTHER UP YOUR @$$ES IN DENIAL….THE AMERICA WE KNEW, IS GONE…AND WILL SOON BECOME WORSE THAN ANY 3RD WORLD NATION IN EXISTENCE!!

    As far as a world financial or military power…AMERICA IS FINISHED!! AMERICA HAS BEEN SO TAKEN OVER BY FOREIGN BANKSTERS, AND GOVERNMENTS, AND THERE ARE SO MANY FOREIGN TROOPS, AS WELL AS INTERPOL CURRENTLY WITHIN AMERICA’S BORDERS….THAT IT WILL NOT BE TOO LONG BEFORE THE FOREIGNERS WILL BE MARCHING DOWN AMERICA’S STREETS, AND CONFISCATING YOUR GUNS…UNLESS…Y’ALL WAKE UP…GROW A PAIR, AND REALIZE THAT SECESSION IS THE ONLY SMART OPTION WE HAVE LEFT TO US!!!

    Here in the Sovereign Republic of Texas, WE HAVE HAD OUR FILL , AND HAVE TAKEN ALL OF THE GLOBALIST [expletive deleted], AND LIES THAT WE ARE GOING TO TAKE!!

    Sometimes, you have to break something apart, find and eradicate the CAUSE of the breakup, before you can put it back together, and expect it to work the way it did, BEFORE THE PROBLEMS STARTED!! So…LIKE IT OR NOT…TEXAS WILL ACT FOR HER OWN SURVIVAL, AND SECEDE, BEFORE THIS GLOBALIST PUPPET, AND THE REST OF HIS CREW OF BILDERBERG MORONS TAKE HER OFF THE EDGE OF THE FISCAL CLIFF WITH THE REST OF THE UNION!!

    As General Sam Houston said…”Texas WILL lift its head, and STAND AMONG THE NATIONS!!”

    God Bless, Protect and Restore the Sovereign Republic of Texas!

    • Daniel from TN

      Secession is not legal, and might lead to civil war, something I personally believe Liberals hope and pray for. However, there IS a legal way to change things and Congress can’t do a thing about it. It is time for the states to convene another CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. Congress will have no control over a convention: The states are only legally required to inform Congress they have convened a convention.
      How about it states? The fate of the United States is now in your hands. WHAT WILL YOU DO?
      FYI. Eight states have already announced they are ready to call for a convention.

      • Donald

        What will I do? Load up my weapons and shoot to kill morons like Warfighter. Try not to get in the way.

      • Cary Nunnally

        A Constitutional Convention would kill the already dying patient. Once it opened, there would be no rules, there is no provision for them anywhere, and the way to fix anything wrong with the document we ignore anyway is to amend it (the proper way, starting in Congress. Secession is legal and lawful. Who says? The Constitution. The Supremes are acting in their own best interests and most of them should be replaced by people of Constitutional integrity. The bright side of divorcing some states from the other would be look at all the test states for gay marriage, legalizing pot, and a whole lot more saying no to Congress and the presidential administrations, each one of which has been worse by far than the one it followed with VERY few exceptions…giving the thumbs down to departments we no longer need from Fed… Czars would have to go (they have never been needed)…The benefits of having the states split up into two different countries, East America and West America or whatever, would be glorious, and one more barrier to the North American Union the elites plan.

        Good for you, Chip Woods, for making secession seem so desirable.

        • BR549

          Cary wrote: “A Constitutional Convention would kill the already dying patient.”

          That might well be the outcome. A number of globalists have been looking to do just that. Once they open what you and I may see as a treasure chest of rights and collective values, it could too easily be turned into a Pandora’s box because those who be rewriting it are the same ones we know to be corrupt ……. and that inclues the Bushes, the Clintons, Obama and the rest of that gaggle of pompous over-coiffed traitors.

        • Daniel from TN

          Going through Congress is a way to amend the Constitution, but not the only way. A convention is also a way to amend the Constitution. Its authorization is found in the Declaration of Independence: “The people shall have the right to choose the form of government under which they shall live and to install such government as they deem appropriate to secure their liberty, security, and happiness.” This was used as the authorization to convene the first convention in 1787.
          A convention would establish its own rules, just as the first convention did.
          The Founders realized that changes would someday be needed for a variety of reasons. Going through Congress is the way to change or resolve a single issue. A convention is convened when a number of changes are needed at the same time, a condition the country is experiencing at this time. The founders also understood that there might come a time when the central, or federal, government would exceed its Constitutionally established limits and it would become necessary for the states to correct that situation. That is also a condition the country is experiencing at this time.
          I agree with your statements about the judiciary. I believe it is now time to change the method of choosing judges, including supreme court justices, to election to specific terms of office instead of appointment to lifetime positions. (I also believe there should be an upper age limit for the judiciary; but that’s another matter.) The election of judges works VERY well at the state level: It will work at the federal level as well. Congress will NEVER send an amendment to the states to produce this needed change because there is too much politics and little, if any, “Constitutional integrity” involved in the current selection process.
          The judiciary is just one of many issues that need serious change; change Congress does not want to occur because it sees that change as a threat to its power.
          History will record that the people, through the states, convened another convention as an attempt to produce the needed change in its federal government without bloodshed.
          NOW do you understand why a convention is needed at this time?

          • Donald

            So apparently, for every election from here on out, there will be a group of babies crying because their man lost and they feel they are not properly “represented” because their regressive and stifling policies are not being “represented”. Good by democracy, hello kindergarten.

          • Daniel from TN

            My last comment was about the amendment process, using the judiciary as one need change. How does your last response correspond to that?

          • Donald

            Yea, just a response on the thread in general. Fact is, revolution may be the answer but not for the reasons being bandied about here. The people you are blaming are but the figureheads. Look towards the top of the one percent….they are your enemies.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            I will address the last part of your comment first.

            The USA has never been a democracy. It is a Constitutional Republic. In a Republic, the sovereignty resides with the people themselves – and one may act on his own or through a representative when he solving a problem.

            A Constitutional Republic does have some similarities to a democracy in that it uses democratic processes to elect representatives, etc. The difference lies in the fact that a Constitutional Republic has a Constitution that is the government. The Constitution limits assigns limited powers to the government, plus it also defines its structure, creates checks on its assigned power – dividing that limited power and the duties of the federal government between three different branches.

            The people made the states, the *states created the constitution so that we could have a section devoted to mostly foreign affairs, plus make sure that the states traded equally with each other.
            *Article VII of the U.S. Constitution itself: “The ratification of the conventions of nine States shall be sufficient for the establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the same.”

            The journal of the convention, which records only the votes of the States – notice that it was the States (not individual delegates) that cast the votes in the convention. Additionally, each State specified what portion of its delegation needed to be present to act and cast the States’ vote.

            The purpose of drafting and ratifying the U.S. Constitution was to define and limit the authority of the Federal government. Plus Article VI Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution specifies that the authority delegated to the Federal government is supreme: “This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”

            Remember the US Constitution IS the government, not the people who serve in temporary positions within its branches. While the U.S. Constitution and laws made in pursuance thereof are the supreme law of the land, this is entirely different than the Federal government being supreme in everything it does.

            To be sure that the federal government’s authority was limited to the powers enumerated within the U.S. Constitution, many states ratification was CONTINGENT upon amendments being passed including what became the 10th Amendment:
            “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people“ – Jefferson considered the “foundation” of the Constitution.

            The ultimate check on Federal power by a State can be uncovered with a quick read of the State ratifying resolutions which illustrate the fundamental right of rescession (i.e. Powers delegated to the Federal government can be reassumed).
            Example: “That the powers of government may be reassumed by the people whensoever it shall become necessary to their happiness; that every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by the said Constitution clearly delegated to the Congress of the United States, or the departments of the government thereof, remains to the people of the several states, or to their respective state governments, to whom they may have granted the same…” New York.

            The Preamble to the Bill of Rights clarifies that: “THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.”

            The fact is that the Bill of Rights was drafted to further clarify the limitations put on the Federal government, not on the States.

      • Old Henry

        Cary:

        We seem to all be over-looking the most important / powerful tool in the hands of the states – the Tenth Amendment / Nullification.

        However, since the vast majority of state houses / legislatures have ben co-opted by NWO stooges there is little hope of a significant number utilizing the powerful tool the Founders gave us.

        • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

          EXACTLY!!! Nullification first. Secession to follow if Null. is unsuccessful. Revolution if neither works.

          • Joe America

            As much as I’m upset by what’s happening in this government, revolution is out of the question. These NWO folks, which are now the majority of our leadership, are simply waiting for an excuse to sick DHS, TSA, FEMA and the military on American Citizens. They want someone to over-react and do something to give them an excuse to enact martial law and suspend Habius Corpus. Right now, we have our hands in the lions mouth. It’s wise to walk along and talk softly to the lion, for now, our we will lose, not only our freedoms, but our lives. In order to have an excuse to rebel, it’s going to take our government rounding up American citizens, for only then, will people be willing to stand up; doing so with righteous indignation. The FEMA camps throughout the US were not built to house invaders, but to house American Citizens. They are our neo-NAZI concentration camps. They have been modeled after the concentration camps that were used to house the Jews, to work them, then to exterminate them when they were no longer of use. Even the new executive orders signed by the President, as well as “Patriot Act II”, and the new National Authorization Defense Act, have provisions to use civilians as slave labor. Anyone that fails to recognize the comparrison between what happened in pre-WWII Germany and what’s happening in America, today, simply does not want to see what’s going on. For most Americans, if it’s not happening in People Magazine, it’s not worth thinking about. The people should not be the first ones to strike a blow, giving the NWO shills an excuse to come after us. That being said, it’s clear that there is nothing barring the NWO from creating a false flag incident, framing American citizens and labeling them as “terrorist.” As it stands, now, our own government can come into our homes, take us into custody and we can disappear without any protection of our Constitution or Bill of Rights, never to be heard from, again. It’s ironic that our wonderful press historically condemned such activity in the banana republics of Central and South America, only to be silent on this threat to American Citizens, today.

          • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

            JOE AMERICA, I completely agree with your assessment of our predicament but what would you suggest? Total enslavement?? Better to die a freeman/woman than to live as a slave to the jackbooted thugs. We must try all legal and peaceful measures but to relinquish all freedoms is not the answer. And don’t underestimate our ability to hold our own. They said the same thing about our ancestors prior to the Rev. War. With over 160,000,000 gun owners and many in the military/law enf. that will uphold their oaths, not to mention the millions of vets, I believe that we would have a fighting chance. Hopefuly, peaceful/legal resolutions will prevail but we must resist if not, no matter what the cost. God Save Our Republic!

          • Joe America

            I’m not saying to throw in the towel, but am only saying that we are dealing with an organization that is older than this nation. They own the wealth of the world and have all the advantages over the peoples of the Earth. All I’m saying is, that before someone makes the decision to go to war, that it’s the very last resort. As well, I’m saying, don’t be stupid. Only a fool is going to stand on a track, in front of a train going 70 MPH. When the train hits you, you will dirty it up, a little. All they’ll do is hose your remains off, and be on their way. Worse, yet, would be the comparrison of a bug hitting the windshield of a truck on the freeway. You’ll be dead, but the cause of your death will go on. At this point, we really don’t have a clear picture of what we’re up against. We only have a vague idea, which may, or may not be correct. Jumping to conclusions would be foolish, because we have allot more to lose and a lot less power than the NWO. All the bluster in the world will mean little, if you and your whole family are wiped out. Don’t roll over, but don’t be stupid. That’s just good advice.

          • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

            Sound advice. Just know that the will of the people is the enemy’s greatest adversary.

          • Donald

            I don’t think it’s unstoppable or unavoidable. It IS going to cost many lives. But there are MORE of us than them.

      • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

        //What will I do? Load up my weapons and shoot to kill morons like Warfighter. Try not to get in the way.//
        Ohh! A libtard with a gun, oh my! QUIT DONALD!!! You’re scaring us!

      • DaveH

        You have drunk the Kool-Aid, Daniel. Where do you get the idea that Secession is not Legal?
        No generation of people can be bound to agreements made by any previous generations of people.

        Read this:
        http://mises.org/daily/3427

        • Smilee

          No generation of people can be bound to agreements made by any previous generations of people.

          Well, be are still bound by our constitution 225 years after it was drafted which proves you wrong again. Not often are you right, is it lack of knowledge or just pure stupidity??

      • Joe America

        Sessesion is legal. In particular, when Texas entered the Union, they included a “get out of jail free” card in their constitution. The only thing illegal is what Lincoln did to the Confederacy. He and the Republicans of his day held the Union together, by force, when it could have been done without the shedding of blood. Nearly 700,000 soldiers, not counting civilian losses in the South, died needlessly. The “Civil War” has been romanicized over and over, again, by warmongers in the North and the South. As for the 13th Ammendment, slavery was already on it’s way out, due to the industrial revolution. Machines are cheaper to maintain than slaves. Slavery would have ended in a more orderly fashion, incorporating Afro-Americans into citizenship in a way that would have allowed them to reach true equality and financial success with their white counterparts. Instead, even today, Afro-Americans are far behind whites and even Hispanics, economically and educationally. This is what happens when you take 4-5 million slaves and dump them out into the cold, without direction. Sadly, Afro-Americans are still slaves and their new master is the DNC. The DNC pretends to be their friend, all the time, keeping them as dumbed down, dependent and as uneducated as possible, assuring that they have to vote Democratic, in order to be maintained and fed. The DNC was violently opposed the 13th Ammendment. It was Republicans that pushed it through. The Democrats only jumped on board when they realized “Hey, we can pull this block of voters in by promissing them a massive free lunch. Then, they will be beholding to us and vote our way, forever.” And, sadly, this is what has happened to Afro-Americans, and now, Latinos and practically any “minority group” they can pander to. But, make no mistake, it’s not freedom they want you to have, but dependence upon them. You are giving up your idealistic, political, moral, eithical, financial and educational freedoms, in order to procure your votes. Minorities have not only whored out their futures, but the futures of their children, for generations to come. In other words, you’ve given up freedom in order to secure crumbs from the table. How does it feel?

    • Old Henry

      Warfighter:

      What you say is true, and it was well stated. However, I do take issue with your talk of Texas seceding and looking out for itself.

      You people in Texas have a GLOBALIST / NOW / BILDERBURG GOVENOR. He is owned by the NWO. Remember the “NAFTA Highway” he was pushing? Perry intended to confiscate millions of acres of privately owned land to give to a foreign company to build / run the “highway” – for their profit.

      I just do not see Texas / Texans having the necessary stones to secede. I lost all confidence in Texas when they cut and ran over the TSA issue. Your state “government” has been taken over (as most states) by the NOW via their stooges in the governor’s mansion and the legislature.

      Perry is a GW Bush clone and, as the Bush family, he is owned lock, stock and barrel by our enemies.

      • SarahR

        Old Henry. I am glad to read that someone else believes that the Bilderbergs do exist. People think they are a conspiracy theory but they do exist and have been causing all this turmoil throughout the world for the last 50 years. All anyone has to do is look them up. They have caused loss of life and destruction for so many years. They own the Republican and Democrat Parties. They didn’t want Romney to win. They made sure Obama won because he got the Hispanic and Black vote and they are in a hurry to take over the world. Look what they are doing in Israel. Israel and the US are the only thing standing in their way to take over the world. Vladamir Putin of Russia said he will not let the Bilderbergs push him around. China won’t have anything to do with them either so the question is who will end up ruling the world? We have to put a stop to this and we have to hurry.

        • BR549

          Sarah wrote: “People think they [Bilderbergs] are a conspiracy theory but they do exist and have been causing all this turmoil throughout the world for the last 50 years.”

          We could say that Maier Amschel de Rothschild started this mess back in the mid 1700s. The Rothschild dominated banking industry was lending to both sides of the Revolutionary War, both sides of the Civil War, and basically, both sides of EVERY WAR SINCE THEN. They have become quite skilled at using every “wave” of social change as a means to further their wealth and position themselves above any laws. Like the stock market, if they can’t find an existing wave, they make one; one that leaves a trail of dead bodies in their wake. To them, everyone else is just expendable fodder.

          As far as those who laugh hysterically and dismiss them as “conspiracy theories”, what do they then call them after they aren’t just theories any more? And yes, they own both Democrat and Republican Parties, and if anyone else were to pop up and question the status quo, like Sen. Paul Wellstone or JFK, it always ends in a plane crash or a bullet. These are ruthless people.

          The Bilderberg crowd have zero tolerance for the Blacks, Arabs, or the Chinese, since they believe that everyone should fall under THEIR version of world domination and those others are just otherwise wealthy human trash.

      • Old Henry

        SarahR:

        The media has tried to diminish anyone who talks of the Bilderburgers, for the media, for the most part, is owned by the Bilderburgers, or their stooges.

        Eventually Jesus Christ will rule the world. Trash like the Bilderburgers are a bump in the road.

    • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

      And rest assured that other states will follow Texas’ lead. Already, many (14) governors are preparing their State Militias to resist any further overreach by the illegal Ovomit Thugocracy. 17 states have rejected the Obamacare ins. mandates. Many like Az. have set up their own Immigration Enforcement/Policies, etc. On some levels, the Civil War has already started. Just waiting for another Concord/Lexington incident to start the real party!

      • Daniel from TN

        Here’s another piece of information the mainstream media will not report.
        17 states have announced they will NOT send their electors to the Electoral College until they are absolutely sure they know who won in their state. Various types of election fraud have been rumored AND officially reported in those states. The states want all of the issues resolved before declaring an official winner. All 17 states were “won” by obama on election day.

      • Kinetic1

        Daniel from TN,
        While I have not heard anything as concrete as you suggest, it’s meaningless either way. I don’t know who the leaders of your movement are, but they clearly are not Constitutional scholars. Here is how the 12th amendment reads,

        “The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice.”

        “”The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President..” and that would be President Obama.
        ” if no person have such majority…” That’s right, one of the candidates would have to have less than 270 votes. So how are you going to do that? All 22 of Romney’s states could stay home ad it wouldn’t make a bit of difference. Even if you convinced Florida, Ohio and Virginia to opt out it wouldn’t be enough. Face it, it’s over and you lost.

        I, for one have long believed that this great experiment is not working. Too many poor, uneducated, backwater States have been allowed too much say in this nation’s future. So on one hand I would welcome the secession of many Red states, but on the other I have to think about our foreign aid budget. It’s costing the Blue states quite a lot to keep many of the red states afloat. Allow them to go off on their own and it may well cost us even more. Of course we wouldn’t be obligated, but it’s just the neighborly thing to do.

        • Daniel from TN

          I’m not part of a movement. I only relay what has already been stated by some states. Those states have MULTIPLE rumors and formal accusations of rampant voter fraud. The states just want to resolve the matter before declaring an official winner.
          As far as the Electoral College is concerned, your statement about the House choosing the president is correct. In that scenario the election of the vice-president is the responsibilty of the Senate. Theoretically, this means Romney could be elected president and Biden elected vice-president.

          • Smilee

            OBAMA WON THE ELECTION, HE WILL BE VOTED PRESIDENT IN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE, GET OVER IT, YOU LOST, BUT DO ENJOY YOUR DREAM, WHY IT LASTS LITTLE BOY!!

    • Joe America

      Everything you’ve said is correct. However, you’re a day late and a dollar short. The NWO is already doing it’s thing. They don’t have to take over, they already have. Is this frightening? Well, yes it is. The question is, how to survive it. In their minds, the leadership of the NWO is leading humanity in the right directions. In other words, they “know what’s best for us.” I’ve examined the bad side of this equation, now that it’s innevitable, I’m trying to see the good side. It appears that these people may be the same organization that created the USA. If so, it could be an attempt to spead the ideals of our founding fathers, world wide. It’s a crap shoot. It could be an attempt to create a world wide totalitarian government, or an attempt to create our nation, on steriods, providing freedom for all the peoples of the Earth. There are deffinately competing fractions in this global effort and it’s hard to figure out “who’s on first.” Prior to this writing, I would have thought that these people were the devil, but, I’ve recently discovered new data that may suggests their intentions may be meant to be beneficial to mankind. Regardless of what I think, they’ve come out on top and are moving forward with their plans for mankind. We can only hope that they are, indeed, benevolent. We’re no longer in a position to do anything about it.

      • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

        Like I already stated, better to be dead than a slave. Too many of our patriot heroes before us have died to be, and to allow us to be, free, to just bend over and ask them to be gentile. If it comes to revolution then my only hope is to take as many of them as I can, Not to live on my knees sucking up to the elitist scum, in hopes that they’ll treat me and mine as animals. And besides, God may have something to say about the outcome, whether I survive it or not.

        • Joe America

          1.To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
          2.A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, a time to reap that which is planted;
          3.A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
          4.A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
          5.A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
          6.A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
          7.A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
          8.A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

  • Sea Jay

    Talk of Sucession is moot , the Corporation of The United States of America succeeded from We The People 100 years ago!! The Corporation is bankrupt!!! CLOSE THE CORPORATION!! Go back to We The People!!

  • SarahR

    Yeah, we’ve tried everything. We waited patiently for an answer from Justice Roberts and it was the wrong answer. We waited patiently for the election and the wrong man won the election. Now we are trying once again to get Congress’s attention and that is to sucede. I don’t see anything else left. I wish these states would secede nonviolently of course.

    • Donald

      Strangely, the wrong man also LOST the election. Cry somewhere else…this is tiresome.

    • Old Henry

      SarahR:

      Shortly after the Kenyan was sworn in – twice because Roberts did not get it right the first time (possibly very nervous / upset swaring in an illegitament foreigner) – I saw a news piede, I think on Brass Check TV, that stated the Supremes were summoned to a meeting at the WH. (I think Scalia was the lone dissenter) Now, one has to wonder what instructions they were given by the Chi Ka Go gangster. (Remember Soetoro is illegally occupying OUR WH at the behest of powerful / wealthy trash)

      As far as Roberts’ vote, I think he was informed that if he wanted to remain above ground he would find a way to vote in favor of ObamaCare. (The Chi Ka Go way)

      • Donald

        Birthers….brains too small for either thought or sanity.

        • Daniel from TN

          The preferred term is Constitutionalist, not Birther. We believe the president of the United States should be legally/Constitutionally eligible to hold that office. obam is not eligible. It has recently been discovered obama is not even a US citizen, despite whether or not he was born in Hawaii.

          • Donald

            You’re idiots, every one of you. You don’t even deserve to be in the US, much less have your own nation.

          • Daniel from TN

            Unlike Liberals, Constitutionalists believe in the rule of law. Please explain how we are idiots and why we do not deserve to be in the USA.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            Please back up your accusations with some evidence. So far I have not seen any thought processes going on with the comments you have been making, just emotional, uninformed outburts rather like toddlers do.

            Please present facts we can either verify or disprove.

      • Daniel from TN

        Roberts’ ruling may have actually killed ObamaCare in the longrun. Roberts stated it was legal as a TAX. According to law, legislation for a NEW tax can only be submitted by the House of Representatives. Previous taxes initiated by the Senate have been declared unconstitutional even if later passed by the House and signed by the president. ObamaCare legislation was submitted by the Senate. There is a good chance it will be declared unconstitutional if arguments are heard on that basis, which it appears may occur.

        • Smilee

          It coordinated in the House, this is another bogus claim just like the birther claim and other similiar BS

          • Daniel from TN

            It may have been coordinated with the House but it did not ORIGINATE in the House. For a new tax to be constitutional it must first be passed by the House and then sent to the Senate for its consideration. A new tax cannot originate in the Senate NOR can both houses of Congress consider it simultaneously.

          • Smilee

            UNREAL! UNREAL!!

      • Smilee

        It should have said originated in the house

      • BR549

        The libtards just don’t get it Henry. As a holistic practitioner, myself, I can’t tell you how many times I have had to wrestle with the dregs of damaged, discarded, disappointed, or disillusioned patients who only needed a boot in the ass lecture about their diet and/or a few simple supplements to help them through. The mindset of allopathic medicine, with respect to its erroneous belief that their more toxic and invasive crisis intervention strategies should take priority over remedies that have worked for populations for over thousands of years, is one of greed, stupidity, and ignorance; and yet, within that pharmaceutical stupor, those in that industry INSIST that only drugs and surgery can save us.

        Back in the 1800s, the AMA used political lobbying to convince Congress that it and only it had the public’s safety in mind and yet, what we too often see today, are the same charlatans on both sides of the fence. Regulations, not unlike government, is not the problem; the problem is integrity ……… and how do we go about instilling in members of our society the tools to becoming socially and morally responsible? The government, like Sherman’s March, assumes that only it can solve the problem, and yet it leaves in its wake the long term disruption of that connection process. Like business, it’s all about short term gain.

        This RomneyCare/ObamaCare bill, however it is repackaged, is a disaster and all it shows is the continued level of corruption we still have. It’s no wonder why MDs are getting out of the industry in droves. As I’m sure you’re aware, we’ve needed health care reform for a long term, but could we please have it without corrupt business interests bleeding the economy to death?

        As for the Birther issue, I agree with Daniel from TN that its a Constitutionalist issue; the Libtards just have no other way to dismiss their ignorance because they’re in so much of a hurry for change, their limited cranial capacity can’t understand the larger issues. But putting eligibility aside for one moment, I would not have minded Obama’s being ineligibility if he had only gone out of his way to support the Constitution. Instead, he has done everything in his power to support globalism and NAFTA, while hypnotizing the weaker-minded among our population into state a false euphoria. Hey, I gave the guy a chance. I voted for him in 2008, but he has only proven himself to be the latest on a line of six opportunistic globalist administrations draping itself in the red, white, and blue, while selling us out to the Rockefeller and Rothschild families.

      • mrf

        Isn’t it ironic the whole birther thing was an issue of the 2000 primary season when George W. Bush’s team whispered about John McCain being born in Panama due to his father’s military assignment? and then the sugestions about his kids.

        Most people do not get a true copy of their real birth cerificate–they get a notorized paper with transferred information. Anyone familair with documents also know there are a lot of incidental mistakes that get corrected–an example is marriage licenses after granted may have an issue with a maiden name, a spelling or the like. As a Justice of the Peace I regularly advise couples to ensure everything is correct but still after the service they notice something like a wrong initial for a parents middle name. Corrections get done but it would just be easier to ensure they are right initially & the typo does not invalidate the marriage unless it was a misrepresentation of lineage–its only a simple issue of human error. I do not believe there were any issues with President Obama’s actual document.

        In Presdient Obama’s case the only close to valid argument is timing and age of his mother–Hawaii was becoming a state and had a residency requirement for citizenship. That makes sense. His mother, was under age and as a minor did not have majority status therefore she was not an ADULT resident long enough to meet that criteria. That does not discount he was born in Hawaii only his mother did not fully meet the adult resident requirement. That is all.

        Its a shame Donald Trump has to rely on junk stuff like this rather than something of substance to keep him in the news–but then most would say he was more a sports guy in high school (baseball). But I guess if people who need to find someone successful to lead them–someonewho has to borrow money from his daddy to cover the Taj is as good as anyone else.

        • Joe America

          Obama’s birth certificate is probably fake. But, who cares? Apparently no one. His mother was an American Citizen and he doesn’t meet the criteria for being President, but neither did McCain. I think this is a moot point, because the real powers that be in this nation have made it so. Not only that, it’s apparent that Americans don’t care, because they voted him back in. They’ll vote for him for two more terms, if he’s able to overturn the 22nd Ammendment, and I believe he’ll get the job done, this term.

  • Lawrence

    I believe secession is legal, but we have an illegal government which swears an oath to uphold and defend the constitution and immediately breaks that oath when taking offic. That said, the only option the states realistically have is to declare all unconstitutional laws null. It is called nullification.

    • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

      Nullification is Freedom’s last hope. If that doesn’t get our country back then secession will have to happen. And if it comes to that, there will be a civil war like this nation has never seen! Patriots need to unite, whether it be under the banner of the Tea Party or some type of Constittionalist platform, it must happen or we all are lost.

    • eddie47d

      The thing is if any State secedes they will no longer be apart of the USA. They can no longer call themselves Americans or US citizens, They will no longer have the American flag. They will also no longer have the US Constitution and it will belong to the ones who stay. They will no longer be able to depend on the US military to protect them against enemy invasion and all US military bases in succession states will be abandoned and taken back to the remaining states. I’m not sure if what they gain will be worth what they will lose! Their fever pitch rhetoric doesn’t match the reality especially if lets say Texas is the only one to secede.

      • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

        What you are not understanding and what we are not given the room to put into the petitions is that we are not seceeding from the USA and it’s legitimate government. We want to secceed from this domestic enemiy taken over federal government.

        The people created the states. The states created the original US Constitution, our legitimate government. The seccession movement is a way to get the United States of America under the ORIGINAL US Constitution without having to (hopefully) wage battle with the domestic enemies of our nation.

        the other way to do that is to hold them accountable for their legally binding Oaths. Remember they are REQUIRED to take and keep the Oath required of them for as long as they occupy the position or office they are in. If they do not keep it, they no longer meet the requirements of that office.

        The first law statute of the United States of America, enacted in the first session of the First Congress on 1 June 1789, was Statute 1, Chapter 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution.

        The wording of the Presidential Oath was established in the Constitution in Article II, Section 1, Clause 10: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States”

        The requirement for all Federal and State Civil officers to give their solemn and binding Oath is established in Article VI, Section 1, Clause 4. “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.”
        Once given, the Oath is binding for life, unless renounced, refused, and abjured. It does not cease upon the occasions of leaving office or of discharge.
        They are BOUND by their Oath to support the Constitution, and should they abrogate their Oath by their acts or inaction, are subject to charges of impeachment and censure (political recourse which doesn not stop civil or criminal recourse).

        Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.

        Bound: “Being under legal or moral obligation; To constitute the boundary or limit of; To set a limit to; confine”.

        Require, Requirement, Required: “to claim or ask for by right and authority; Mandated under a law or by an authoritative entity. That which is required; a thing demanded or obligatory; something demanded or imposed as an obligation.”

        Basically we can remove them because they did not keep their oath, it is their accountability to the people. Unfortunately we have many judges that are not for the USA under the US Constitution anymore. Of course since it is where they get their power for it to be legal means that anything they are adjudicating is moot since they who have not kept the oath no longer has the legal power.

        I have a petition that needs signatures basically repeating what is here on the required oaths (that I had room for). I need 150 signatures to get it out where the public can read it, decide if they agree with it and sign it if they do.

        Will you please sign it if you agree with it? I put it directly below if you want to know what it says without going to that website:

        http://wh.gov/XB5b

        We Can Immediately Fire and Replace Any Constitutional Oath Taker That Doesn’t Keep the Legally Binding Oath as Required
        US Constitution is Supreme Law. The first law statute of the USA was Statute 1, Chapt 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution. The wording of the Presidential Oath – Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Clause 8. The Oath requirement for all Fed and State Civil officers – Art VI, Sect 1, Clause 4. The Oath is binding for life.
        Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.

    • Smilee

      Nullification is unconstitutional and thus cannot be done, State cannot override Congressional powers, the tenth amendment makes that crystal clear

      • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

        Smilee, you are incorrect about what the Tenth Amendment makes clear.
        X Amendment; “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people”.

        “The Tenth Amendment was intended to confirm the understanding of the people at the time the Constitution was adopted, that powers not granted to the United States were reserved to the States or to the people. It added nothing to the instrument as originally ratified.” – United States v. Sprague, 282 U.S. 716, 733

        Basically, since the federal government ONLY possesses those powers which are delegated to it (Article I, Section 1), this amendment restates that all powers not expressly delegated to it are in fact reserved to the States or to the sovereign people. The Tenth Amendment very concisely articulates the very idea and structure of a government of limited powers. The Tenth Amendment reinforces the federal system created by the Constitution and acts as a bulwark against federal intrusion on state authority and individual liberty.

        I need signatures for a petition I put up concerning keeping the Oath. The laws backing it are:
        The first law statute of the United States of America, enacted in the first session of the First Congress on 1 June 1789, was Statute 1, Chapter 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution.

        The wording of the Presidential Oath was established in the Constitution in Article II, Section 1, Clause 10. “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States”.

        The requirement for all Federal and State Civil officers to give their solemn and binding Oath is established in Article VI, Section 1, Clause 4.

        They are BOUND by their Oath to support the Constitution, and should they abrogate their Oath by their acts or inaction, are subject to charges of impeachment and censure (political rememdy).

        But the Oath is thier accountability to us, and has legal ramifications when not kept, making it a civil offense.

        Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.

        Bound: “Being under legal or moral obligation; To constitute the boundary or limit of; To set a limit to; confine”.

        Require, Requirement, Required: “to claim or ask for by right and authority; Mandated under a law or by an authoritative entity. That which is required; a thing demanded or obligatory; something demanded or imposed as an obligation.”

        The petition I started on the WH petitions site, We the People. Will you please sign it? http://wh.gov/XB5b I need to get it out where the public can see it. Many do not realize that the Oath is legally binding and since the seccession petitions has brought a lot to see them this should at least educate many about it.

        We Can Immediately Fire and Replace Any Constitutional Oath Taker That Doesn’t Keep the Legally Binding Oath as Required
        US Constitution is Supreme Law. The first law statute of the USA was Statute 1, Chapt 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution. The wording of the Presidential Oath – Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Clause 8. The Oath requirement for all Fed and State Civil officers – Art VI, Sect 1, Clause 4. The Oath is binding for life.
        Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.

        • Smilee

          Kansas Bright commented on Trying To Secede? Don’t Waste Your Time.
          in response to Smilee:

          Nullification is unconstitutional and thus cannot be done, State cannot override Congressional powers, the tenth amendment makes that crystal clear

          Smilee, you are incorrect about what the Tenth Amendment makes clear.
          X Amendment;

          THIS IS THE ACTUAL WORDS IN THE CONSTITUTION

          “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people”.
          “The Tenth Amendment was intended to confirm the understanding of the people at the time the Constitution was adopted, that powers not granted to the United States were reserved to the States or to the people. It added nothing to the instrument as originally ratified.” – United States v. Sprague, 282 U.S. 716, 733

          FIRST, THE TENTH AMENDMENT WAS NOT IN THE ORGININAL RATIFICATION AND THESE WORDS SAY THE SAME AS I SAID BUT I USED THE ACTUAL WORDS YOU DID NOT.

          Basically, since the federal government ONLY possesses those powers which are delegated to it (Article I, Section 1),

          I THINK YOU MIGHT MEAN SECTION 8 AS SECTION ONE DOES NOT DEAL WITH THAT

          this amendment restates that all powers not expressly delegated to it are in fact reserved to the States or to the sovereign people. The Tenth Amendment very concisely articulates the very idea and structure of a government of limited powers. The Tenth Amendment reinforces the federal system created by the Constitution and acts as a bulwark against federal intrusion on state authority and individual liberty.

          YOUR ALMOST RIGHT BUT IF THE POWER IS GIVEN TO CONGRESS THEN THAT TRUMPS STATES RIGHTS AND THUS NULLIFICATION IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL IF THE LAW THEY WANT TO NULLIFY IS CONSTITUTIONAL AND THAT IS WHAT THE TENTH AMENDMENT SAYS AND MEANS

          I need signatures for a petition I put up concerning keeping the Oath. The laws backing it are: The first law statute of the United States of America, enacted in the first session of the First Congress on 1 June 1789, was Statute 1, Chapter 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution.
          The wording of the Presidential Oath was established in the Constitution in Article II, Section 1, Clause 10. “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States”.
          The requirement for all Federal and State Civil officers to give their solemn and binding Oath is established in Article VI, Section 1, Clause 4.

          WHAT A JOKE ARTICLE VI HAS NO SECTION ONE OR CLAUSE 4

          They are BOUND by their Oath to support the Constitution, and should they abrogate their Oath by their acts or inaction, are subject to charges of impeachment and censure (political rememdy). But the Oath is thier accountability to us, and has legal ramifications when not kept, making it a civil offense. Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”. Bound: “Being under legal or moral obligation; To constitute the boundary or limit of; To set a limit to; confine”.
          Require, Requirement, Required: “to claim or ask for by right and authority; Mandated under a law or by an authoritative entity. That which is required; a thing demanded or obligatory; something demanded or imposed as an obligation.”
          The petition I started on the WH petitions site, We the People. Will you please sign it? http://wh.gov/XB5b I need to get it out where the public can see it. Many do not realize that the Oath is legally binding and since the seccession petitions has brought a lot to see them this should at least educate many about it. We Can Immediately Fire and Replace Any Constitutional Oath Taker That Doesn’t Keep the Legally Binding Oath as Required US Constitution is Supreme Law. The first law statute of the USA was Statute 1, Chapt 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution. The wording of the Presidential Oath – Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Clause 8.

          THIS DEALS WITH PATENTS ETC NOT OATHS

          The Oath requirement for all Fed and State Civil officers – Art VI, Sect 1, Clause 4.

          THERE IS NO SEC 1 CLAUSE 4,

          The Oath is binding for life.

          Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.

          THE CONSTITUTION GIVES THE POWER TO MAKE THE RULES AND PUNISHMENTS UP TO EACH HOUSE FOR ITS MEMBERS AND IMPEACHMENT FOR THE PRESIDENT WITH FEW REQUIREMENTS AS A 2/3 VOTE TO EXPEL A CONGRESSMAN. YOUR PETITION CANNOT BE IMPLEMENTED EXCEPT BY CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT SO YOUR JUST BANGING YOUR HEAD AGAINST A BRICK WALL. YOU CLEARLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND OUR CONSTITUTION OR ARE OUR LAW MAKING METHODS, YOUR ABOUT THE MOST IGNORANT PERSON I HAVE EVER SEEN ON HERE, YOU CANNOT EVEN QUOTE THE RIGHT PARTS OF THE CONSTITUTION RIGHT. WITH ONLY 17 SIGNATURES ON YOUR PETITION IT APPEARS MOST THINK IT IS A JOKE TO.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            I am not sure where you got your “words” from, but they were NOT from the Original Constitution which is our legitimate government. Nor did you get them from the law cases themselves as I did.

            Please double check your information. I have spent years studying the Original Constitution, the framers, the documents of that time period, law cases of that time period, and writings of others who also study that.

            I can be wrong, but on this I am not. Sorry.

          • Smilee

            Go read the tenth amendment and you will see it is word for word that I wrote, does not sound to difficult does it. You made so many mistakes in your post dealing with the Constitution that i have t conclude based on that that your claims here are just not true as your many contradictions just to not add up

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            What you probably do not understand is that before a petition is put out so that the public can view it, read it, and sign it if they agree with it; there must be 150 signatures on it.

            Unfortunately a lot of my family and friends and family had their ‘lifestyle” adjusted greatly by Hurrican Sandy which precludes them from being able to sign it, nor have I brought it to their attention. They have enough stress on their lives at this time.

            So I am bringing it to the public whenever I can. Do I expect to get the signatures needed on this Oath petition at this time – probably not. The laws that apply to it are valid.

            Not sure if you ever were in a position that required you to take the legally binding Oath, but this is one thing you might think about:

            If there were never intended to be action to defend the Constitution from those who are domestically attempting to destroy its power and authority, why would each Oath require it of those who take the Oaths?

            This definition of deomestic enemies USED to be on the FBI website (I used the etc’s to shorten the list when posting it):

            “Domestic enemies pursue legislation, programs against the powers of the US Constitution. They work on destroying and weakening the Rights of the People guaranteed by the Constitution. Plus they create laws, amendments, bills, etc that goes against the restraint on the three branches of our government by the Constitution. They are also those who support those in action, or by inaction; vote, voice, money, etc who are going against or trying to weaken the US Constitution and the Peoples written guarantee of the protection of those Rights.”

      • Smilee

        I looked at your petition and only 17 had signed it when I looked earlier today, Your posts sure made you out to be one confused person as they do not make a whole lot of sense.

      • DaveH

        For those who suspect that Sleepee is just another misinforming self-interested Liberal Progressive, but just don’t have the facts to prove that:
        https://mises.org/store/Product.aspx?ProductId=10393

      • TML

        Smilee says, “Nullification is unconstitutional and thus cannot be done, State cannot override Congressional powers, the tenth amendment makes that crystal clear”

        Amazing someone can be as ignorant about the constitution and its history as you are in order to espouse your own authoritarian support for a tyrannical government. I’m quite sure you say that nullification is unconstitutional because the courts (shocker, eh?) have repeatedly rejected the idea. Yet, those who have brought us the right of nullification were none other than Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, particularly in Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798 and 1799, which argues that the States are the final and ultimate arbiter of Constitutional questions, and that States had the right and the duty to declare unconstitutional any acts of Congress that was not authorized by the Constitution. It did not give this power to the judicial branch of SCOTUS – offices of unelected officials for life – who just so happens to reject the idea of nullification by the states, and assumes such power themselves.

        So who would you stand by, Smilee… the Supreme Court of unelected officials who act as a despotic oligarchy, or the two most prominent founders and drafters of the two most important documents of this nation – Jefferson and Madison?

        • Smilee

          IF YOU WERE RIGHT THE STATES COULD NULLIFY OBAMACARE SO SAY THE SUPREME COURT BUT BECAUSE OF THE TENTH AMENDMENT THEY CANNOT AS CONGRESS IS GIVEN THE POWER TO DO SO IN THIS CASE AND IN ANY CASE IT DOES, THAT APPLIES, YOU KNOW NOTHING!! YOU KNOW NOTHING!! YOU KNOW NOTHING!!

          • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

            //, YOU KNOW NOTHING!! YOU KNOW NOTHING!! YOU KNOW NOTHING!!//
            Yo’ Smellie, how’s that Tourette’s Syndrome working out for you???

      • TML

        Smilee

        Considering you are an opponent of the right of secession, along with your statements here, it is clear you have no understanding of the 10th Amendment. If the State is bold enough to take up its duty, then yes, it can nullify Obamacare if it finds it unconstitutional… the same way they are enacting resolutions to legalize (or rather, decriminalize) marijuana.

        • Smilee

          OBAMACARE HAS A; ALREADY BEEN FOUND CONSTITUTIONAL, CAN’T BELIEVE YOU THOUGHT OTHERWISE AND YOU SAY THE TENTH ONLY APPLIES WHEN IT IS FOUND IF UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND IT WAS NOT SO I GUESS YOU DO AGREE WITH ME.

          • BR549

            Writing your whole post in CAPS doesn’t make ObamaCare any more legal or practical. The fact that so many states are taking issue with it should suggest that it isn’t all it was sold to us as being.

            I doubt many would question that it would a higher moral function of a successful society to help provide medical coverage for all members of that culture. The problem is that we don’t live in that ideal society (yet, anyway) and in the meantime, all those corruptively connected self-styled elites have already postured themselves to make a fortune from the misery of others, while they keep convincing the do-gooders in the trenches that its for a higher moral cause.

            So, I have no argument about helping those less fortunate (to a degree), but a person would have to be blind as a bat not to see that the pharmaceutical and insurance industries wrote this bill and it wasn’t about assisting the less fortunate or providing fair medical coverage. ObamaCare was a way for corporations to literally THRIVE under the pretext of providing medical support, whether this country was going to solve its fiscal dilemma or not. It was all about money, all along. Anyone who questions the motives of ObamaCare is, of course, labelled as a scrooge, a curmudgeon, or a sociopath simply because they smelled a rat and would have preferred a less corrupt solution.

          • Smilee

            Nothing you said changes the fact ObamaCare is here to stay making everything you said irrelevant.

          • Joe America

            Honey Boo Boo, I’m going to make your day. I predict that Obama will be a four term president. How can I say this? He will stack the Supreme Court with his own people and, together, they will eliminate the 22nd Ammendment, finding it unconstitutional. This will open the door for him to run a third and forth term. Why will he be re-elected so many times? Because he will continue to give to those who wouldn’t work as tasters in a pie factory. He will be perceived by the people to be greater than FDR. Why? Because his social programs will make FDR’s pale in comparrison. He will be perceived as the new Robinhood. “The real Robinhood.” Where will he get all the money to do this? The grand majority of people will be broke and put into dependence upon Uncle Sammy for subsistance. Obama will take advantage of the vast oil and gas reserves of this nation. If you want to make money in gas and oil, then, you’ve gotta pay, and pay and pay. So, take heart Honey Boo Boo, for you’ll be able to buy all the butt plugs you need, if you are an American citizen, which you are not. However, in Obama-world, that doesn’t mean anything. You might get something from Uncle Sugar, after all.

          • Smilee

            Silly boy, The Supreme Court cannot declare any part of the Constitution
            unconstitutional only laws if they do not conform to it, I going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you said it to pull my leg because not even I think you are really that stupid.

          • Daniel from TN

            I agree that obama will try for athird or fourth term, but for a different reason. During the 2013 State of the Union Address obama will make a statement to this effect: “I have examined the tasks ahead of me and have determined that all of these problems cannot be resoved in just four years. Therefore, I am asking Congress for an amendment to repeal the 22nd amendment so I will have all the needed time to finish the job.” It will have the usual obama smooth talking flair.

          • BR549

            Daniel wrote: “I agree that obama will try for a third or fourth term, but for a different reason.”

            If such a thing happens, though, there will be nothing legal about it. It will merely be the ruling of a CEO over a corporate entity and dictated from the top by foreign as well as domestic banking families.

          • Joe America

            Congress overstepped the separation of powers, as guarenteed by the Constitution, by voting in the 22nd ammendment. Obama’s a slick character and I know that this fact hasn’t passed him by. This is being looked at and he will try to overcome this problem. With the right Justices in control, he’ll overturn the 22nd ammendment.

          • Smilee

            I hope he does, but I doubt he will try and if he does and unless congress decides they want to do it for him as that is the only real path.

          • BR549

            Smilee wrote (in response to Joe America about Obama getting rid of the 22nd Amendment): “I hope he does.”

            Well, I can see you’re just an eager beaver. You’ve already pulled your shorts down and brought your own Vaseline jar. Your screen name says it all.

          • Smilee

            SO JUVENILE!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED

          • BR549

            Smilee wrote: “SO JUVENILE!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED.”

            I had only meant to respond in a language you seem to understand best, since facts seem to make you so queasy. With all the childish antics you’ve been pulling here trying to defend yourself most of the people on this thread, and with that self-righteous attitude of yours, you STILL see Obama as your shining star.

            It would be one thing if you were to at least acknowledge Obama’s complicity as a globalist, or at least his continuation of the Bush-Clinton plan of Constitutional evisceration, but you’re still waving your arms in the air from 2008, STILL holding out for Hope and Change and the latest entitlement du jour.

            So maybe that last Vaseline comment I made was just a PAINFUL reminder for you of your state of denial. Hey, if the shoe fits ……

          • Smilee

            SO JUVENILE!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED.”

            Nothing you say is true it is only your opinion and coming from such a little pea sized brain that is no where close to maturity and questionable that it ever will be and unable to understand reality both globally and domestically thus yielding pure childish malafrkey

          • BR549

            Smilee wrote: “Nothing you say is true it is only your opinion.”

            Well, Nanny-nanny-boo-boo to you, too. That does seem to be the only language you seem to understand. Joe America had you pegged from the word go; I don’t know why I had ever tried to have a civil conversation with you.

            BTW, I’m sorry if someone recently broke the news to you about the tooth-fairy, but get over it.

          • Smilee

            SO JUVENILE!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED.”

          • Joe America

            Honey Boo Boo, I’m curious. What nation are you from, because it’s pretty clear you’re not American. I think the person who should be ashamed is a phoney, who comes to a site, participating in discourse about a nation they know little, or nothing about. Someone who doesn’t have a dog in the fight. The entire world hates Americans, Honey, but they keep busting their asses to get here. What draws you to us, Honey Boo Boo? What’s your real quest. Tell us about your dreams.

          • Smilee

            SO JUVENILE!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED

          • Daniel from TN

            Message to BR549 and others – Stop wasting your time. Smilee and Liberals live by the expression “My mind is made up! Don’t confuse me wth the facts!”

          • Smilee

            You have absolutely no fact to confuse anyone with

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            Remember, paid government shills do a lot of what Smilee does. They make nonesense or wrong replies with so called “facts” toback them up, usually misquotes things like the US Constitution/authors/laws, etc. They can seem to be different posters from different areas of the country. Plus they can be up to 50 different posters if that Airforce one was finished.

            If those don’t get a rise or distrct people, then they use the race card – though some seem to use that “card” early at times.

            There is no amount of money that anyone could pay me to be a traitor to our legitimate government.

            Please if there are any who are not nervous to (which is understandable), please sign my Oath petition. Here is what it says – plus you need to use my link as I still do not have 150 signers to get it out to the public.

            “We Can Immediately Fire and Replace Any Constitutional Oath Taker That Doesn’t Keep the Legally Binding Oath as Required
            US Constitution is Supreme Law. The first law statute of the USA was Statute 1, Chapt 1: an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths, which established the oath required by civil and military officials to support the Constitution. The wording of the Presidential Oath – Constitution, Article II, Section 1, Clause 8. The Oath requirement for all Fed and State Civil officers – Art VI, Sect 1, Clause 4. The Oath is binding for life.
            Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.

            http://wh.gov/XB5b is the link.

            Thank you if you sign or not sign it as you are here and not watching TV.

          • BR549

            KB, the petition is well meaning, and I’m sure many people agree with you, despite some people’s smart remarks about it, but I suspect all it will do is put anyone on one more “LIST”.

            And as we draw closer to their Endgame, the veil of civility will be lifted and Obama will go from being the last POTUS to the first dictator this country has ever seen. And if the PTB need to adjust their timeframe so as to not appear so “predictable”, it might be the next globalist stooge that’s propped up before the public on that charade we call a media.

            As a member of Oathkeepers, myself, I’ll tell you, you’re right on track because the issue before us is one on integrity. As it happened, though, I moved to an area where that group was popular to an area where it wasn’t, but that was only because all the militias in the area were making membership with it a somewhat moot point.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            Except:
            Oath of Office – if necessary and proper the Militia’s can come together to enforce Title 18 US code section 2381 – Treason: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/115/2381

            What I am getting from this is that the state militia, the general militia (which is the people) can arrest for prosecution those within the three branches of our government, the military, and the states who commit treason against our legitimate government. Am I misinformed?

            18 USC § 2382 – Misprision of treason
            Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States and having knowledge of the commission of any treason against them, conceals and does not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same to the President or to some judge of the United States, or to the governor or to some judge or justice of a particular State, is guilty of misprision of treason and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than seven years, or both.

            18 USC § 2383 – Rebellion or insurrection
            Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. (That would be “change” and using propaganda, lies, misinformation, and a corporate media cartel).

            18 USC § 2384 – Seditious conspiracy
            If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both. (Fast and Furious, Benghazi, etc)

            Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof… assassination of any officer of any such government; or
            Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
            Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof… (UN & NATO with the assistance of this administration, the Bush administration, the Clinton adminstration, the Bush 1 adminstration…)

            Remember that Obama has said numerous times that he does NOT represent the US, that he is a representative for the UN and NATO. That Panetta, Dempsey, Obama said to the senate that they gave authority OVER the USA to the UN. That they gave authority over the US Military to the UN. In a letter to Boehner, in front of the senate, its on video, etc.

            Who is the Militia? Efficiency of Militia Bill H.R. 11654 (The Dick Act) law broke the militia down in three groups: the organized militia, henceforth known as the National Guard of the State, Territory and District of Columbia,
            the unorganized militia and
            the regular army.
            It states: The militia encompasses every able-bodied male (now “person” since it was following those allowed to fight in the military) between the ages of 18 and 45. All members of the unorganized militia have the absolute personal right and 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms of any type, and as many as they can afford to buy.

            “A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …”
            Richard Henry Lee writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788

            St. George Tucker, a lawyer, Revolutionary War militia officer, legal scholar, and later a U.S. District Court judge, Tucker’s remarks are solid evidence that the militia clause was not intended to restrict the right to keep arms to active militia members, but he also specifically mentions self-defense.
            The Supreme Court has cited Tucker in over forty cases, he is found in the major cases of virtually every Supreme Court era.”
            Tucker wrote of the Second Amendment:
            “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and this without any qualification as to their condition or degree, as is the case in the British government… This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty… The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Whenever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.

            “I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” George Mason, Co-author of the Second Amendment during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

            “The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.” Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers

            The next amendment is: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
            The importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defence of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them. Justice Story, Supreme Court Associate Justice

            “And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …”. Samuel Adams, quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, “Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State”

          • Joe America

            Kansas, I’m afraid liberty is dead, and sadly, has been for a long time. Watch the UN Small Arms Treaty, because it will become ratified, soon.

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            “the UN Small Arms Treaty, because it will become ratified, soon.”
            That does not make it legal.

            Article 43 Paragraph 3 of the Charter of the United Nations provides that all resolutions or agreements of the United Nations Security Counsel “shall be subject to ratification by the signatory states in accordance with their respective constitutional processes.”

            All treaties are subservient to the exclusive congressional power to commence war. In Reid v. Covert, 354 U.S. 1, 18 (1957), the United States Supreme Court held: There is nothing in [the Constitution’s text]which intimates that treaties and laws enacted pursuant to them do not have to comply with the provisions of the Constitution. Nor is there anything in the debates which accompanied the drafting and ratification of the Constitution which even suggests such a result.

            On November 19, 1919, in Section II of his Reservations with Regard to Ratification of the Versailles Treaty, TO PRESERVE THE BALANCE OF POWER ESTABLISHED BY THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION FROM EXECUTIVE USURPATION, Senator Henry Cabot Lodge resolved as follows: The United States assumes no obligation to preserve the territorial integrity or political independence of any other country or to interfere in controversies between nations – whether members of the League or not – under the provisions of Article 10, or to employ the military or naval forces of the United States under any article of the treaty for any purpose, unless in any particular case the Congress, which, under the Constitution, has the sole power to declare war or authorize the employment of the military or naval forces of the United States, shall by act or joint resolution so provide. (caps are mine)

            In Geofroy v. Riggs, 133 U.S. 258, 267 (1890), the Supreme Court of the United States held: The treaty power, as expressed in the Constitution, is in terms unlimited except by those restraints which are found in that instrument against the action of the government or of its departments, and those arising from the nature of the government itself and of that of the States. It would not be contended that it extends so far as to authorize what the Constitution forbids, or a change in the character of the government, or in that of one of the States, or a cession of any portion of the territory of the latter, without its consent.

            Unconstitutional usurpations by one branch of government of powers entrusted to a coequal branch are not rendered constitutional by repetition. The United States Supreme Court held unconstitutional hundreds of laws enacted by Congress over the course of five decades that included a legislative veto of executive actions in INS v. Chada, 462 U.S. 919 (1982).

            Section 2(c) of the War Powers Resolution of 1973 clarifies Presidential authority to undertake military action as follows: The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.

            In United States v. Smith, 27 F. Cas. 1192 (1806), Supreme Court Justice William Paterson, a delegate to the Federal Convention from New Jersey, wrote on behalf of a federal circuit court: There is a manifest distinction between our going to war with a nation at peace, and a war being made against us by an actual invasion, or a formal declaration. In the former case it is the exclusive province of Congress to change a state of peace into a state of war.

            In his concurrence in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579, 642-643 (1952), which rebuked President Harry Truman’s claim of unilateral war powers in the Korean War, Justice Robert Jackson elaborated: Nothing in our Constitution is plainer than that declaration of a war is entrusted only to Congress. Of course, a state of war may in fact exist without a formal declaration. But no doctrine that the Court could promulgate would seem to me more sinister and alarming than that a President whose conduct of foreign affairs is so largely uncontrolled, and often even is unknown, can vastly enlarge his mastery over the internal affairs of the country by his own commitment of the Nation’s armed forces to some foreign venture.

            In their dissent in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 542 U.S. 507 (2004), Justices John Paul Stevens and Antonin Scalia recognized the “Founders’ general distrust of military power lodged with the President, including the authority to commence war:
            “No fewer than 10 issues of the Federalist were devoted in whole or part to allaying fears of oppression from the proposed Constitution’s authorization of standing armies in peacetime. Many safeguards in the Constitution reflect these concerns. Congress’s authority “[t]o raise and support Armies” was hedged with the proviso that “no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years.” U.S. Const., Art. 1, §8, cl. 12. Except for the actual command of military forces, all authorization for their maintenance and all explicit authorization for their use is placed in the control of Congress under Article I, rather than the President under Article II. As Hamilton explained, the President’s military authority would be “much inferior” to that of the British King…” (Citing Federalist 69, Supra.)

            On December 20, 2007, then Senator Hillary Clinton proclaimed: “The President has the solemn duty to defend our Nation. If the country is under truly imminent threat of attack, of course the President must take appropriate action to defend us. At the same time, the Constitution requires Congress to authorize war. I do not believe that the President can take military action – including any kind of strategic bombing – against Iran without congressional authorization.”

            Then Senator Joseph Biden stated in a speech at the Iowa City Public Library in 2007 regarding potential military action in Iran that unilateral action by the President would be an impeachable offense under the Constitution: “It is precisely because the consequences of war – intended or otherwise – can be so profound and complicated that our Founding Fathers vested in Congress, not the President, the power to initiate war, except to repel an imminent attack on the United States or its citizens.
            They reasoned that requiring the President to come to Congress first would slow things down… allow for more careful decision making before sending Americans to fight and die… and ensure broader public support.
            The Founding Fathers were, as in most things, profoundly right. That’s why I want to be very clear: if the President takes us to war with Iran without Congressional approval, I will call for his impeachment.
            I do not say this lightly or to be provocative. I am dead serious. I have chaired the Senate Judiciary Committee. I still teach constitutional law. I’ve consulted with some of our leading constitutional scholars. The Constitution is clear. And so am I.
            I’m saying this now to put the administration on notice and hopefully to deter the President from taking unilateral action in the last year of his administration.
            If war is warranted with a nation of 70 million people, it warrants coming to Congress and the American people first”.

            In a speech on the Senate Floor in 1998, then Senator Joseph Biden maintained: “…the only logical conclusion is that the framers [of the United States Constitution] intended to grant to Congress the power to initiate all hostilities, even limited wars.”

            On December 20, 2007, then Senator Barack Obama informed the Boston Globe, based upon his extensive knowledge of the United States Constitution: “The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.”

            Congressman J. Randy Forbes (VA-4) had the following exchange with Secretary of Defense Robert Gates during a March 31, 2011 House Armed Services Committee Hearing on the legality of the present military operation in Libya:
            Congressman Forbes: Mr. Secretary, if tomorrow a foreign nation intentionally, for whatever reason, launched a Tomahawk missile into New York City, would that be considered an act of war against the United States?
            Secretary Gates: Probably so.
            Congressman Forbes: Then I would assume the same laws would apply if we launched a Tomahawk missile at another nation – is that also true?
            Secretary Gates: You’re getting into constitutional law here and I am no expert on it.
            Congressman Forbes: Mr. Secretary, you’re the Secretary of Defense. You ought to be an expert on what’s an act of war or not. If it’s an act of war to launch a Tomahawk missile on New York City would it not also be an act of war to launch a Tomahawk missile by us at another nation?
            Secretary Gates: Presumably.

            Just because a person who is TEMPORARILY within a branch of our federal government, even the president, does NOT give them to power or authority to break our laws. It is our fault, “We the People”, because WE ALLOW this to go on.

            James Iredell, who played a leading role in the North Carolina ratifying convention and later became a justice of the Supreme Court, said that under the proposed Constitution the President “is of a very different nature from a monarch. He is to be… personally responsible for any abuse of the great trust reposed in him”

            In the confrontation between Gen Douglas MacArthur and President Harry S. Truman during the Korean War, President Truman relieved MacArthur from his position because MacArthur did not support the requirements of the Constitution and did not faithfully discharge his duties: “Full and vigorous debate on matters of national policy is a vital element in the constitutional system of our free democracy. It is fundamental, however, that military commanders must be governed by the policies and directives issued to them in the manner provided by our laws and Constitution. In time of crisis, this consideration is particularly compelling.”

            Washington court-martialed Thomas Dewees for two offenses, the first being not taking the oath of office. This shows that not taking the oath is NOT simply an administrative error. In fact, the practice at the time was to publish the sentence in a newspaper “to prevent in future the commission of such crimes.”

            Oliver Ellsworth, Connecticut Convention: “This Constitution defines the extent of the powers of the general government. If the general legislature [Congress should at any time overleap their limits the judicial department is a constitutional check. If the United States go beyond their powers, if they make a law which the Constitution does not authorize, it is void..."

            "Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government." James Madison, Primary Author of the Constitution, US President

            In so many instances, fueled by greed, avarice, and self-aggrandizement, Our Elected Servants have subverted the Principles of the Constitution and Its strictures on the limitation of Government.
            "Time has proven the discernment of our ancestors; for even these provisions, expressed in such plain English words that it would seem the ingenuity of man could not evade them, are now after the lapse of more than seventy years, sought to be avoided. Those great and good men foresaw that troublous times would arise, when rulers and people would become restive under restraint, and seek by sharp and decisive measures to accomplish ends deemed just and proper, and that the principles of constitutional liberty would be in peril unless established by irrepealable law. The history of the world had taught them that what was done in the past might be attempted in the future.
            The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people, equally in war and peace, and covers with the shield of its protection all classes of men, at all times, and under all circumstances. No doctrine involving more pernicious consequences was ever invented by the wit of man than that any of its provisions can be suspended during any of the great exigencies of government. Such a doctrine leads directly to anarchy or despotism." The Supreme Court

            "They saw all the consequences in the principle and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle." James Madison
            "Because if . . . [An Unalienable Natural Right of Free Men] . . . be exempt from the authority of the Society at large, still less can it be subject to that of the Legislative Body. The latter are but the creatures and vicegerents of the former. Their jurisdiction is both derivative and limited: It is limited with regard to the coordinate departments, more necessarily is it limited with regard to the constituents. The preservation of a free Government requires, not merely, that the metes and bounds which separate each department of power be invariably maintained: but more especially that neither of them be suffered to overleap the greater Barrier which defends the rights of the people. The Rulers who are guilty of such an encroachment, exceed the commission from which they derive their authority, and are Tyrants. The people who submit to it are governed by laws made neither by themselves nor by an authority derived from them, and are Slaves”

            “Legislators have their authority measured by the Constitution, they are chosen to do what it permits, and NOTHING MORE, and they take solemn oath to obey and support it. . . ” Judge Thomas M. Cooley

            The governmental “judge” made doctrines of Sovereign Immunity and Judicial Supremacy inculcated over the last years of judicial incrementalism are untenable to the Constitution as written.

            Sovereign Immunity changes the basic relationship between government and its people from one seeking moral justice under the law to one in which people have no enforceable rights and government has no enforceable limits. That concept of moral justice; of striving to establish Justice and domestic Tranquility is what distinguishes barbarian from civilized society. The Founders designed the Constitution to transform the barbarian rule we rejected as Colonies, into a civilization befitting the dignity of a free people.

            The Constitution, by both its general design and its terms as written, limits government to the powers delegated. Immunity from accountability to these limited powers it injures in violation of the law is a power not delegated. The Tenth Amendment forbids it. Our Constitution is a closed legal and logical system that declares itself and the laws made pursuant to it, to be the supreme law of the land, and that is the only law that it allows. There is no room in it for “inherent sovereign immunity”.

            This is NOT a “change” in the view of our government. This is domestic enemies attacking our legitimate government (like what was done in H itler’s Germany) to destroy it from within, using many of the same techniques used in Germany during that time.

            Preserve, Protect and Defend the US Constitution, our government, is a REQUIREMENT of any president (Require, Requirement, Required: “to claim or ask for by right and authority; Mandated under a law or by an authoritative entity. That which is required; a thing demanded or obligatory; something demanded or imposed as an obligation.”).

            Support and Defend the US Constitution is a REQUIREMENT of everyone else (The three branches of our government, the military, all law enforcement, the heads of the States, all federal employees are required to take an Oath to support and defend the Constitution and NOT an individual leader, ruler, office, or entity.
            Once given, the Oath is binding for life, unless renounced, refused, and abjured. It does not cease upon the occasions of leaving office or of discharge.
            Solemn: “Legally binding, Common legal phrase indicating that an agreement has been consciously made, and certain actions are now either required or prohibited”, “The other requirement for an agreement or contract to be considered legally binding is consideration – both parties must knowingly understand what they are agreeing to”.
            Bound: “Being under legal or moral obligation; To constitute the boundary or limit of; To set a limit to; confine”).

            “Domestic enemies pursue legislation, programs against the powers of the US Constitution. They work on destroying and weakening the Rights of the People guaranteed by the Constitution. Plus they create laws, amendments, bills, etc that goes against the restraint on the three branches of our government by the Constitution. They are also those who support those in action, or by inaction; vote, voice, money, etc who are going against or trying to weaken the US Constitution and the Peoples written guarantee of the protection of those Rights. (the “etc’s” are mine to make it shorter)

          • BR549

            KB, nice post. Looking at the L A R G E R picture, I was ruminating about whether the Militia Act (Dick Act) of 1903 might have done little more than knock more stuffing out of the states’ governors’ authority and transferring it to the federal government. Between the Act of 1871, this act, the adoption of the Federal Reserve, the debt fiasco running between 1933-37, the selling out of the American people under the guise of Social Security; it just seems to be another one of those power grabbing pieces of Trojan Horse legislation.

            Your thoughts?

          • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

            I believe from all that I have studied is that the Militia Act (Dick Act) actually reinforces the Second Amendment that the people (who want to) are required to have access to any weapons with NO reservations and appropriate training in groups as state militias (provided by each state) in case the federal government goes dictatorial on us or an attack on US soil by foreign nations or whatever problem the state has that might need an ORGANIZED and trained group for (legally, constitutionally).

            I also believe that is why the Bush, Clinton, and Obama administrations have ILLEGALLY targeted State Milita groups. That this is why weapons bans, concealed carry, etc have all illegally come into being.

            This destruction of our legitimate government has been done over decades by taking over and creating a cartel that runs corporate (used to be mainstream) news and putting people willing to sell out our nation into posistions within the federal government. this is not a legitimate change in the direction of our government. Do you think the people if they knew what was in Agenda 21 – even the New Black Panthers – would stand for this? That they will lose their vehicles, right to decide anything in their lives, even if and who they can date? That someone put in charge of their district will tell them what they are allowed to eat? When they can sleep? What duties will be theirs to carry out? That they can NEVER own anything as all will be provided by the government – what the government decides is what they need?

            Do you accept that this is legitimate? That you will be “FREED” from the burdens of ever having to make a decision about anyhting in your life from now on? That ALL, literally all, will be decided for you and all you will be REQUIRED to do is “do as you are told”?

            That is what Obama, Romney, etc – this New World Order, One World Government is requiring of us – to be entirely enslaved, to be free of ANY decision.

          • BR549

            KB wrote: “I also believe that is why the Bush, Clinton, and Obama administrations have ILLEGALLY targeted State Milita groups. That this is why weapons bans, concealed carry, etc have all illegally come into being.” ………….. That’s the only way these people can accomplish their plan; illegally. It just happens to include the libtards’ current cast of favorite characters.

            But back to the militia for a moment; it seemed to me that while the Dick Act might have further defined the meaning of the 2nd along the lines of your last post, what I saw was a potential usurpation attempt by partitioning the role of the National Guard to fall more squarely under federal control. In the hands of constructive and Constitutionally oriented presidents and Congress, I could see it eliminating a lot of red tape in getting sufficient numbers of troops ready in time of need, but as Bush the Idiot had shown us, all we have to do is expand the definition of war to include imperialism and we can rationalize anything at all, even invading peaceful countries whose only wishes are sovereignty and self determination. Bush had abused the president’s right to call on the Reserves while under the phony pretext of a war that he (well, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz) had started.

            “This destruction of our legitimate government has been done over decades ….” I know that YOU know that has been going on a lot longer than that. Ever since the Revolutionary war, the war debt has been an issue, but it was the Rothschild’s banking influence, along with the robber barons, who couldn’t seem to remember what country they were from, that sent us down this path. Lincoln was himself a part of this, as well as a victim, but that is that nature of of these people; everyone is expendable when it comes to greed.

          • Daniel from TN

            Congress did not step over its boundaries on the 22nd amendment because Congress does not have the power to vote in ANY amendment. Congress can only pass a PROPOSED amendment. That proposal is then sent to each of the states for their consideration. Only the states can vote it in by “ratifying” the amendment, accomplished when two-thirds of the states vote in favor of the proposed amendment.

          • BR549

            Smilee wrote: “Nothing you said changes the fact ObamaCare is here to stay making everything you said irrelevant.”

            Isn’t it just dandy how you hard core Obama zealots have everything all figured out. I love it. Not one freakin’ clue about any relevant issue, but still proud as a peacock and self-righteous to boot. With that much success under you belt, I guess it’s finally time for you to move out of your mama’s basement and get a job at McDonalds.

          • Smilee

            It is here to stay because the Supreme Court said it i and it s has nothing to do with Obama as he is not on the court he was just smarter that all the conservative states that challenged it as he understands the Constitution much better than they and he proved that so get over it as yours and their position is now history and irrelevant., twenty six states claimed otherwise and the court said they were wrong and Obama was right. That is just the facts and would think your smart enough to know that but I could be wrong because your ignorance has often amazed me and is so hard to believe.

          • Daniel from TN

            Here’s some interesting info. According to the American Insurance Institute about 85% of the people were already covered by some type of health insurance BEFORE ObamaCare was passed. Also, according to the Congressional Budget Office if Congress would just pay the insurance premiums for the other 15% then the cost to taxpayers would be less than one-hundredth of 1% of the estimated cost of ObamaCare.
            ObamaCare is not now, nor was it ever, about health care. Health care was just the camoflauge Liberals used to get it passed.

          • Smilee

            Obamacare was never about health care per say it was about Health Care Insurance Reform and it was never presented as anything else by anyone but conservatives still keep saying that but liberals never did. Conservatives kept saying it was a government takeover of health care and that was just their rhetoric and a false statement.

      • TML

        No, it comes back to your acceptance of the court as final arbiter, rather than the states, to say it [Obamacare] has been found constitutional. But if fact, even your beloved Supreme Court essentially nullified the law because they ruled the individual mandate unconstitutional based on the Commerce Clause, but allowed the law to stand because of Congress’ power to tax the American people. Yet, they failed to discern that Obamacare did not originate in the House of Representatives as is required for all “tax” bills according to Article 1 of the Constitution. So yes, it is unconstitutional. Aside from that, the great cries from the people opposing this “tax” are based on the idea that to force a person to purchase products or services he doesn’t want or need is tyrannical.

        The 10th Amendment specifically says that all powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution are reserved for the States and to the people. As independent sovereign parties to the Constitution, the inherent right to judge compliance with the compact is retained by the states specifically because no such power was delegated to the federal government by the Constitution (no tribunal of judicial review was ever explicitly erected by the Constitution). Therefore, if the state (not the Supreme Court) determines that the federal government has exceeded its delegated powers, the state may declare federal laws unconstitutional.

        You can stop yelling now.

        • Smilee

          WRONG, nothing you said is our reality despite you thinking your interpretation is the right even though it has no power what so ever and the Supreme Court does have that power and thus OBAMACARE is settled and is the law and they have the final say and have said it so it is here to stay and nothing you say or claim will change anything your words are worthless and irrelevant. The appropriations part of the bill did originate in the House and the law suit is as frivolousness as all the birther ones and is done by some of the same losers, mark my word this will change nothing but dream on sucker as I doubt you will ever admit defeat.

      • TML

        LoL… it’s like arguing with a child. You’ve made no argument to which I could be defeated… only unsupported assertions. Your inability to control your emotions, and lack of articulating support for your assertions, is proof enough that you have lost this argument… and you know it. So, you go right ahead and continue to stop your feet and hold your breath about it. Good day.

        • Smilee

          Silly, the supreme court has already defeated your argument. your dumber that a box of rocks!!!

          • ward lawrence

            I’d rather be a free and independent dumber than a box of rocks than a slave to tyranny. Name calling shows extremely weak character.

          • Smilee

            In your case they are one and the same

      • TML

        They haven’t argued against me yet… ;) … and I can pick apart their ruling from 199 years ago piece by piece and hand them their a$$. Bring it

        • ward lawrence

          The tenth amendment gives the states meaning the people a right to self government. Pick it apart all you want to, that’s what it says. From Texas Nationalist Movement member.

        • ward lawrence

          What’s crystal clear is, is that the Constitution gives the right for states to govern themselves within the framework of the Constitution. This was designed to further limit the powers of the federal government. Pick it apart all you want to.

          • Smilee

            What’s crystal clear is, is that the Constitution gives the right for states to govern themselves within the framework of the Constitution. This was designed to further limit the powers of the federal government. Pick it apart all you want to.

            I’m not picking it apart just saying what happened in the supreme court. The Constitution defines the powers of Congress (and in that context it is limited) and if the power to Congress is not defined then and only then do the states have the power and that is what the tenth amendment says and if Congress has the power then it supersedes the power of the state, if conflict between exists between the two and Congress has the power then that is what is upheld. That is why Obamacare was held constitutional because Congress has that power under the Constitution to enact it, that is why the 26 states that challenged it lost their case. You can argue against it all you like but the issue is settled and final, so that is now the law and you can do nothing about it.

          • ward lawrence

            The tenth amendment does give the states to set up their own health care system with the consent of the people. Was Obamacare set up with the consent of the people? No it was not, and my not being able to anything about it is the kind of tyranny I’m talking about. This is why I want my home state to become a free and independent nation. Texas Nationalist member.

          • Smilee

            Dream on Sucker, as it will never be more than a dream, your as you are wrong on this as on the tenth

          • ward lawrence

            OK Smilee, I’ll get back to my reading the Constitution and the Bible while you get back to reading your Communist Manifesto.

          • Smilee

            Good idea you might learn something, I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you but will not hold my breathe. Never read the communist manifesto and probably never will as i really have no interest but I doubt it could be as ridiculous as your have been and are in your positions.

          • ward lawrence

            LOLOLOL

          • BR549

            Ward wrote: “OK Smilee, I’ll get back to my reading the Constitution and the Bible while you get back to reading your Communist Manifesto.”

            “Curious George” would be more appropriate.

          • BR549

            Smilee wrote: ” ….. if conflict between [states and Congress] exists between the two and Congress has the power then that is what is upheld.”

            Despite all the other nonsensical banter that has been traded here on this issue, your post here does make sense ….. as far as it goes. The problem comes when one factors in the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, and the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798,-9, which clearly extend the right and the role of the states to squash tyranny. I mean, that is what the whole point of the Declaration of Independence was about in the first place.

            I know, many justices would argue that only those specific passages that actually made it into the Constitution should be allowed legislative consideration, but even the history of our law writing gave us the “Intent of the Legislation” prior to the legalese that followed within each bill, but I disagree. I think intent has everything to do with whatever becomes necessary to codify.

            Justices will also play that game where they will claim that if an issue is brought up in the Declaration, but not also specifically in the Constitution then the issue has no grounds for consideration. Again, I disagree, and when issues arise where the two documents don’t conveniently meld, THAT is when the 9th and 10th come back into the picture the second time around.

            The framers didn’t want to have states dropping in and out of the Union willy-nilly; that is why the Constitution was framed the way it was, BUT it also assumed that the federal government was NOT going to be able to creep into every aspect of daily live and progressively usurp more and more power from the states, which it dangerously has. This arrangement was, after all, a marriage between the states, nothing more. The authority given to the federal government by the states was nothing more than both the benefit and the limitations of living within that marriage contract; the Constitution. When the wife cheats on the husband, as we might hear about in Sharia Law dominated countries, the husband has the right to have her stoned; yet when the reverse takes place, there is no recourse for the wife. The deck is stacked entirely one way.

            Somehow, I doubt that the framers managed to misunderstand that concept. This last post of yours was well written; I just don’t agree with it.

          • Smilee

            Your post is chuck full of assumptions and totally lacking in reality. It didn’t work out that way did it, your opinion is yours and you are entitled to it but the court and reality tell the the real story and not the inaccurate assumptions you read into. Don’t spin it to far as you could get more dizzy

          • BR549

            Smilee wrote: “Your post is chuck full of assumptions and totally lacking in reality.”

            Really, then you are obviously unaware of how some seasoned Constitutional scholars are also viewing this issue. Typical libtard rant; no different than the rant of those ignorant Bush supporters who were also brain dead about their Constitution. Reality is what we make it. If you choose to drop your shorts while holding Obama’s Vaseline jar, that’s your decision. All I can say is that, Dude, you are going to be really sore in the morning.

            Thank God we didn’t have Marines at Iwo Jima who thought like you.

          • Donald

            Not entirely fair. A good marine does little thinking for himself.

          • Smilee

            then you are obviously unaware of how some seasoned Constitutional scholars ,

            YES A I AM AND THE REAL SEASONED ONES AGREE WITH ME, I ADMIT THERE ARE CONSERVATIVE PROPAGANDA CREATORS THAT SET FORTH THE PROPAGANDA THAT WRONGLY DESCRIBES ITS REALITY AND YOU QUOTE THEIR GARBAGE. iT SEEMS YOU NO LONGER HAVE A REAL RESPONSE TO MY POSTS, i SUPPOSE YOU RUN OUT OF WORDS TO DESCRIBE YOUR LIES AND THEN YOU GO ON TO REVEAL YOUR VILE CHARACTER IN IDLE WORDS AND STATEMENTS WHICH MEAN NOTHING BUT THEN EVERY THING YOU HAVE SAID HAS NOT HAD REAL MEANING EITHER

          • BR549

            Smilee wrote: [incessantly having to dialogue in caps] “YES A I AM AND THE REAL SEASONED ONES AGREE WITH ME,”

            If that’s the case, then you must also understand that our constitutional republic has been progressively hijacked by banking families and that what we have for a functional system today is just a facade. If not, you’re the biggest rube on the internet.

            So, you can keep on laboring in the belief that the system is working for you and rationalize its success, or you can come to grips with the fact that larger forces are in control of your “boy” in the White House.

          • Smilee

            Whining will get you nowhere as it changes nothing, Corporate america hijacked the republican congress in 1994 and we have been paying for that ever since, the real hijacking remains as so many vote to keep those in Congress who worship the corporate world and look out for their interests and not the rest of us. Check out ALEC (the most powerful corporate lobby in the country hiding under a loop hole in the law to keep from being known whom and what they really are) and Grover Norquist and others and you will figure out whom the real hijackers are. They have little control of Obama and they are afraid of him as he is the first real challenge they have had in many years but they still do control almost all of the republicans in Congress and thus the grid lock and breaking that gridlock, if it is possible, will happen in the next four years and you want bet if it does Obama will get the credit from the american people.

          • BR549

            1994? Really.

            You know, someday, when you grow up and actually ingest some relevant material on the matter, you’ll discover how far back the problem goes. 1994? Pardon me, I was laughing so hard I almost pissed in my pants.

          • Smilee

            You make it very clear you have no understanding of reality and if you cannot comprehend what I am saying then do as a child and throw a tantrum mixed with anger which your word make very clear. Glad to hear you did not piss in your pant or mama may have to spank for such childish behavior,

          • Daniel from TN

            The Rhenquist court abandoned original intent as a basis or even a single factor for interpretation of law. Its use has not been allowed since then.This was a mistake for two reasons.
            1. Sometimes it is difficult to properly word a bill to say what the writer/author intended. Any person who has ever written proposed legislation will confirm that.
            2. Words change in meaning over time; sometimes in as little as 10 years. This begs the question “If the definition of a word in a bill passed 20 years ago changes, does that mean that law also changes?”

          • Smilee

            AND YOUR POINT IS???

          • Daniel from TN

            My “point” was just a comment about another comment concerning original intent in regards to interpretation of law.

        • Smilee

          Prove it then because I have to see to believe it and I know you can’t

      • TML

        Smilee says, “The Constitution defines the powers of Congress (and in that context it is limited) and if the power to Congress is not defined then and only then do the states have the power and that is what the tenth amendment says …”

        If you acknowledge that much then now all you have to do is acknowledge the simple fact that secession and judicial review are powers that are nowhere expressly delegated (that is, not merely implied or rationalized, but expressly delegated) to the United States in the Constitution, and are therefore powers reserved to the States. You refuse to take this next step in logic continuing to revert to a Supreme Court interpretation, which clearly does not follow the premise you acknowledge here. That is why I say you are engaging circular reasoning because you are using what you are trying to prove as part of the proof of that thing in order to avoid the obvious conclusion that I have been arguing.

        • Smilee

          The civil war settled the rights of states to secede and thus it is no more a right of the states and Marlbury v Madison settled the review of the courts so despite your claims to knowing better than the courts decision you have not one iota of power to make it a reality, get over that to and get back to reality as what I said is what it really is. Sorry to deflate your bubble

      • TML

        Round and round we go…

        The right of secession cannot be settled by the barrel of a gun. That’s mere authoritarian force that disregards the Constitution entirely, which you seem to have no problem with when it suits your opinion.

        And citing Marlbury v Madison to support the claim of judicial review is the circular logic I was referring. You are using what you are trying to prove as part of the proof of judicial review. It is the same authoritarian error in logic the court used – “because I said so” – without the Constitution having ever explicitly delegated that power to them.

        As I said before… I’m aware that such doctrine has been practiced over the years even to this day, and that many people foolishly uphold it (like you are now)… but that doesn’t mean it is constitutional, or that it ought to be that way.

        Considering, as I’ve pointed out, a group of unelected officials which assume the power of judicial review before they even make the judgment (because they had to assume the power in order to make the judgment) is nothing more than an despotic oligarchy… the same as an man who crown himself emperor. In fact, the ones who made the judgment was a group of federalists the John Adams rushed to appoint after Jefferson defeated him in the election which resulted in the case. Sorry to burst your bubble… but in that, yes, I do know better than them… just as Jefferson and Madison knew better.

        • Smilee

          Oh wow!! You need to use the US Constitution and not a constitution of your own making as that has no merit or power except in that little pea sized brain of yours. The Constitution and the interpretations since have determined the Supreme law of the land and most scholars believe the Civil War settled the issues of succession and SC opinions settled matters of interpretations of the Constitution and taken as a whole this is the Supreme Law of the land and its actual practice and all your idiotic interpretations only exist in your little peas sized brain and not in the real world which you seemed to have checked out of.

      • TML

        Smilee says, “You need to use the US Constitution and not a constitution of your own making”

        I am using the US Constitution. You said earlier… “The Constitution defines the powers of Congress (and in that context it is limited) and if the power to Congress is not defined then and only then do the states have the power and that is what the tenth amendment says”. Now, I invite you to point out anywhere in that document that says a word about secession, or how a state could go about secession. It’s not there; therefore not a power delegated to the federal government, and thus reserved for the states unilaterally. It’s amazing how you will continue to deny this simple conclusion, based on simple fact, and simple logic that even you understand.

        Smilee says, “…most scholars believe the Civil War settled the issues of succession…”

        No matter how many people believe something, that doesn’t necessarily make it true or right. That’s a logical fallacy, argumentum ad numerum. The only thing that the Civil War settled is that the government can usurp the Constitution, and the rights of the States by mere force to impose its will, and subjugate the people against their consent… not any reasonable logic or argument regarding the right of secession which was laid down in the Declaration of Independence.

        You truly do support tyranny in the most naïve way.

        And it’s obvious you are going to continue with your childish behavior and circular reasoning. You are intellectually dishonest, and boring. Good day

        • Smilee

          Your using your own interpretation of the US Constitution that differs from what the Supreme Court has interpreted it is to be and that is what i meant by you using your own Constitution That is what you are doing and that carries no weight with reality, Supreme law as interpreted by the Supreme Court is the correct interpretation of the Constitution even though you think they got it wrong but your thinking means absolutely nothing and yet you persist that somehow your view is superior when it is really childlike in reasoning. The civil war ended succession in this country forever unless there is mutual agreement of all parties so if any state tries it under any other conditions they will be regarded as an insurrection and put down and the power of the military of the US today is far more superior to any military any state may have so it will come to a quick end for that state. The supreme court in 1860 never ruled on it and the supreme court today will not either. Those who refuse to learn the lessons of history will be doomed to relive it. This has no chance of happening today as there is no real desire for it in any state. The sore losers in this election are making a lot of noise over it but have so little support that in power it is only comparable to the power of a small child and I guess that is the category you are in. Your analysis of me and my positions are what is childish because if you cannot produce any evidence to support your idiotic positions then resort to what you little ones are good at, throwing a childish tantrum. Go stand in the corner until you learn your lesson.

  • mark mericle

    you all at this personal liberty news digest are all wet. You people need to get a real job and STOP sucking a pay check from these ingnorant people who liston to you…

    • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

      Go away troll! We’ve got a country to rebuild after all of you libs have torn it apart.

  • rkz777

    There’s surely nothing wrong with the idea to secede from the United socialist States of America! Anything to fight the communist in washington or anyone who lacks the fortitude to do so is a good thing. If you don’t want to stand with American’s against tyranny under socialism/communism then join the other side and fight us, and that’s not a waste of my time, it’s well worth the effort to keep my children and grand children FREE!

  • rkz777

    Secession is legal without a doubt, what is illegal in America are these socialist/communist in the white house. Many years ago they would have been hanged, and we’re not far from that now.

    • Kinetic1

      rkz777,
      Threatening the President? Is that such a good idea?

      • DaveH

        Probably not, given the fact that Liberal Progressives chomp at the bit for any excuse to mess with other peoples’ lives.

    • Vigilant

      Anton Scalia, 2006: “I cannot imagine that such a question could ever reach the Supreme Court,” Scalia wrote. “To begin with, the answer is clear. If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

        The Supremem Court is part of the federal government, the third branch. It has also taken powers for itself that it was not given. The people created the states. The states created the US Constittuion to have a central government to handle (mainly foreign affairs, and to also see that the states traded fairly amongst themselves. The people in the federal government, including the temporarly ones we elect are there to carry out the duties assigned to each branch by the US Constitution – that is all legally.

      • DaveH

        There is nothing in the Constitution that binds the states to a permanent Union. No people have a right to bind succeeding generations to a contract which they did not sign or even approve. The idea of being permanently bound to a Union is purely Propaganda promoted by those who are in the Leadership and thus stand to lose from any split-up.
        What next? Telling a wife that she has no choice but to remain with her abusive husband for life?
        Once a person realizes that Governments are simply Powerful Gangs who have assumed the right of Force with the submissive acceptance of the people, everything they do becomes much clearer:
        http://mises.org/journals/jls/17_4/17_4_3.pdf

      • BR549

        Vigilant wrote: “Anton Scalia, …. “If there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede.”

        Scalia had his head up his ass. The states had agreed to turn over their right to secede at the same time the 6th, 9th, and 10th Amendments were being drafted which meant the federal government would have had to recognize that it, itself, was only empowered by the will of the several states and that any officers were dutifully bound to support the Constituition, …… which, again, included the 9th and 10th. Once the federal government reneged on its part of that delicate “marriage”, the states had no further obligation to comply.

        I say that, of course, with the understanding that the whole idea was to make it very difficult for any state to even consider secession, since you can’t have a functioning marriage when the parties are estranged or one party is cheating on the other while reminding their partner of his/her marriage obligation, which is the scenario we have today.

  • bob button

    The first person I read who advocated session was a smart alleck Liberal, who thought what a great thing it would be to have all hick Red states, in one country, and the more enlightened Blues in another. At first I had the same opinion as you, but then I realized the potential of Red state Oil, Gas, and Coal resources, without Washington’s Regulations, and restrictions. In ten years many of the Blues would be leaving Washington for us.

  • ward lawrence

    The people in Texas who want independence have had enough. We want to live in republic that wants our freedom, independence, and our God given rights protected. Go to texasnationalist.com

    • ward lawrence

      To me secession is not a waste of time.

    • Donald

      You won’t find that, even in a “free Texas”.

  • Donald

    One thing I love about liberals is their predictablity. Any attack on their “logic” is met with violence and anger.

    Pot calls kettle, black. Next……

  • Jim C

    Smilee,
    Not trying to get your dander up but you should google Doris Kearns Goodwin with the word plagiarism before you get too miffed.
    Additionally, it’s well known and she has admitted that he, Johnson, used to sneak into her bed at his ranch at 5:00am so she could, according to her, “listen to his memoirs” (it is my understanding that she was married Richard Goodwin at least part of the time this was going on also). Don’t know how objective you might consider that but I, for one, would look askance at anything written by such a person. That’s just me though. You are perfectly free to take her at her word.
    Also, she was what was described as a “guest pundit” on the PBS Newhour program in about 2000 or later. I don’t remember the dates.

    • Smilee

      im C commented on Trying To Secede? Don’t Waste Your Time.

      Smilee,

      Not trying to get your dander up but you should google Doris Kearns Goodwin with the word plagiarism before you get too miffed.

      NOT MIFFED, IT IS IRRELEVANT TO HER CREDIBILITY ON HER WORKS ON LINCOLN IT IS A DIVERSION FROM THE TOPIC AND MEANINGLESS

      Additionally, it’s well known and she has admitted that he, Johnson, used to sneak into her bed at his ranch at 5:00am so she could, according to her, “listen to his memoirs” (it is my understanding that she was married Richard Goodwin at least part of the time this was going on also). Don’t know how objective you might consider that but I, for one, would look askance at anything written by such a person. That’s just me though. You are perfectly free to take her at her word.

      AGAIN IF OR IF SHE DID NOT SNEAK INTO HIS BED IS AGAIN IS NOT RELEVANT TO HER CREDIBILITY ON HER WORKS ON LINCOLN AND FURTHER NONE OF OURS OR MY BUSINESS

      Also, she was what was described as a “guest pundit” on the PBS Newhour program in about 2000 or later. I don’t remember the dates.

      THAT IS NOT AN EMPLOYEE AND THAT IS WHAT I ADDRESSED AND SHE HAS BEEN ON THIS AND MANY OTHER NEWS SHOWS IN THAT OPACITY. PEOPLE ATTACKING HER HERE PROBABLY HAVE LESS CREDIBILITY THAT SHE

      • Jim C

        Smilee,
        Just saying, I don’t think I would take her judgments as to motives and feelings reference Lincoln as gospel given that she is prone to mischievous behavior like that. Doesn’t look good when it comes to having the ability to think clearly. That’s all I’m saying.
        Additionally, she does annotate her works well but only with authors who agree with her viewpoint. She has been called a deifyer by several people who have reviewed her work reference Lincoln, Kennedy and Johnson. Just saying. Everyone to their own opinion.
        Aside: You might want to look into a book called THE REAL LINCOLN by Thomas J. DeLorenzo for another view on Lincoln.

  • Donald

    You unveiled yours first, sir.

  • Donald

    As you demonstrate your limited imagination remember, you only make a fool of yourself.

  • Joe America

    To All,

    People, everyone needs to lighten up and not take all this seriously. The fact is, not one words said on this site is going to free you, or motivate anyone to do anything. You’re not going to change anyone. All this talk about “revolution”, “civil war” and “blowing heads off” is ridiculous. First and foremost, you’ve already been coopted into the NWO, it’s done, it’s over. You were all asleep while it happened. You all were enamored by Hollywood, technology, beer and the boob tube, so much so, that you’ve allowed all this to happen. It kind of reminds me of the Hulu commercial, where the goal is to turn your brain into mush. That’s what’s become of us. Our brains have become pudding. So, have fun, have discourse, but really get off the blowing heads off thing. A word to the wise, talking about violent takeover of the government on an internet site isn’t very intelligent. It’s stupid. And, as Forest Gump’s momma said “Stupid is as stupid does.”

    • Jim C

      Joe,
      Gotta go along with your sentiments regarding the animus and rancor going on here.
      I come to this site to read opinions and review evidence posted by those who stop by here. I think this is an important and interesting subject and deserves to be explored by citizens.
      I, like you, do not like the venom and hostility I read here but, unlike you, I understand it. People get frustrated when they understand that others cannot see the logic in their argument (whether there is any logic is another question but at least to the owner of the argument there may be). They become personally involved which, to them, requires a personal retort. Then it escalates to the point where people are talking about emptying others heads of their contents.
      Pity it has to get to this point.

      • Donald

        There are some who care not about facts, no matter how persuasive, and cannot come to accept anyone else’s argument. Then they start insulting sexuality, body parts, etc. Frustration is epidemic these days. Gotta understand that there is almost nothing you can do in a peaceable fashion that will change what we face. Even so, that should be the absolute last resort.

  • BR549

    Well, here the thing; the globalists’ agenda is to keep as many skirmishes going all the time all around the globe, as they can get away with. They want political and civil unrest because it means that the social adhesion in any group is vulnerable to even minor upsets. They use this as a barometer to then gauge what other stages can further upset that country’s apple cart.

    In the midst of all this chaos, individuals within the same country lose their sense of bonding and begin going after each other. This is what has been increasingly happening within our political system every four years, as both sides become all too convinced that only THEIR party holds the key to pulling our country out of the doldrums. So if anyone has bothered to wonder why politics seem to be heating up more and more, it’s because the globalists, just as was done during the Civil War, are all too happy to turn brother against brother and neighbor against neighbor.

    They get away with this because those brothers and neighbors never once questioned if some other forces were at work to create such animosity. What we are seeing on WND is no different than what we are also seeing on HuffPost, Prison Planet, MSNBC or any other dialogue venue. The globalists are fueling these disagreements through the economic stress they created and, unfortunately, when we see the ad hominem attacks, their plan is working.

    We can all disagree about what the causes are, although I would personally suggest that those who have not yet looked at the interference by the globalists start doing so. The problem is so much larger than petty Republican or Democrat ideologies.

  • Joe America

    Here’s a little information that would brighten up the day of any NWO shill. According to the LA Times, America’s Birth rate is the lowest at anytime. How about that! The rest of the world is coughing out babies like rabbits, but American birth rates are rock bottom. I guess the NWO shills have done a pretty good job pushing abortions and birth control and “gay marriage.” Here’s a lesson, morons; when you’re not reproducing, your enemy is, and soon, they out number you. China learned a hard lesson when their people killed all the baby girls, because, since they could only have one kid, everyone wanted a boy. Now, they’ve got to import wives for their sons, primarily from N. Korea, but now from all over the Asian Pacific rim. Support abortion, birth control and promote homosexuality and the numbers of the population drop like a rock, as planned:
    http://www.latimes.com/health/boostershots/la-heb-us-birth-rate-falls-to-lowest-level-ever-recorded-20121130,0,6690557.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fmostviewed+%28L.A.+Times+-+Most+Viewed+Stories%29

    You fools just keep them birth rates low, like good little NWO fools. Yeah! Rosey and Ellen must be so proud.

  • BR549

    Joe wrote: “……. but Obama has already won the election.”

    Well yes and no. We haven’t heard from the Electoral College yet, not that we could expect them to grow testicles and do anything with the power they have been empowered with.

    And then we have the voter fraud issues, but once again, the Judicial branch will just continue to suck on its Bilderberg approved pacifier and those people will do exactly what they have been instructed to do ……. under the illusion of due diligence, of course. As someone had mentioned here earlier, voter fraud has been rampant for millennia and no party is immune to it, but when people resort to behaving like that, it’s merely a societal miners’ canary signaling a lack of faith in the system from deep within the trenches.

    We have the greatest governmental system in the entire world, yet it’s being brought down by greed, corruption and a lack of faith. The legislature (all branches, really) are all getting what they can out of the system before the whole thing comes crashing to the ground, all the while the Bushes, the Clintons, and now Obama have been sending our kids off to war while they strategize how to turn this once fine country over to the globalists. If I was a Marine, a Ranger, or a SEAL, I’d be livid. If I was the parent of anyone child that had died while doing service for this country, I would be extremely bitter over what is taking place in Washington right now …….. and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the individual parties. It’s all about lies, corruption, and keeping populace stupified enough to believe that the system has been working all along.

    • Joe America

      BR549,

      You’re right. My son and I were talking about this, and the fact is that local contests for Congressmen, local county and city commissioners are still in debate. If so, how could the contest for the highest political office in the world be called so early and so many votes assured. Why did certain voting machines come up Obama when people were voting for Romney? Why did Romney conceed so early? It doesn’t make any sense. My only take on this is that we are going to have a depression, the Republicans know it and don’t want the stain of Great Depression II on their record. Sadly, with Romney conceeding, it’s an automatic win for Obama. It’s not pretty, but it’s true.

      • BR549

        Joe wrote: “Why did Romney conceed so early? It doesn’t make any sense. My only take on this is that we are going to have a depression, the Republicans know it and don’t want the stain of Great Depression II on their record.”

        Why didn’t Gore contest the vote in 2000? Or why did we have such a cookie-cutter repeat in the 2004 election? None of this would seem to make any sense, not to the average, hard working stiff, anyway, but to anyone who understands the agenda of the NWO, it would explain all the irrational irregularities that have been taking place with increasing frequency, especially over the last 30 years. So, it DOES make sense …… when you stop to think that both of them are being managed by powerful forces lurking in the shadows.

        That’s why, as Ron Paul said, “people keep voting for change, but no matter which party gets into office, the agenda never changes.” It’s why we never hear the candidates give anything beyond lip service to supporting the Constitution.

        Obama supporters were feeling all warm and fuzzy about the idea of the troops coming home and the promotion of peace, and yet here we are, four years into this Democrat version of Bush 4.0, and Obama’s supporters have abandoned whatever scruples they had four years ago to look the other way while their saviour authorizes (along with a complicit Congress) drone attack practice on innocent civilians in preparation for use on the American population. Just as LRADs had been given their first major test on a civilian population during the Bush Administration in the civilian riots in the Georgia-Ossetia conflict, those LRADs are now in nearly all National Guard bases throughout the US.

        If none of this makes much sense, it was never supposed to, but that was the plan. While brain dead American voters were busy watching the soaps, the Olympics, the ball games, Dancing with the Stars, and gullibly still believing that the two-party system was working, THIS has been going on behind our backs. Hard core Bush, Clinton, and Obama supporters have been fighting the good fight, battling their fellow voters over petty ideologies, while the globalists were robbing the candy store.

      • Daniel from TN

        A concession does not automatically make the other candidate the winner. A losing candidate CAN rescind a concession: It has been done in previous elections when serious questions about the true winner of an election arose. Legally, a concession is considered to be a gesture of good will. It is not legally binding.

    • Daniel from TN

      Here’s some interesting info about the Electoral College. Electors are NOT legally obligated to vote for the candidate who won their state because the Electoral College is a secret ballot. This has actually happened in the past, but that occurence did not change the outcome. Also, a few electors in states won by obama have already stated they will NOT vote for obama during the College because they are now convinced Romney actually won in their state.

      • Smilee

        Dream on sucker. In states that Obama won the electors will be democrats in the states Romney won the electors will be republicans, The winning party in each state picks the electors, are you really silly enough to believe they will vote for the other party. The elections is almost a month past, time to quit grieving and suck it up and move on, get over it.

        • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

          “get over it” says this retard. Just like all of the other tardo libs wanting America to forget about all of the abuses of this illegal admin. The massive voter fraud, the misdirection of hundreds of thousands of military ballots, the murders of American patriots like agt. Terry, the 4 embassy workers, the billions of taxpayer $ given to failing companies (financial supporters of Obama), etc., etc. And this is all they have to say, “get over it”. Our forefathers would be totally disgusted with these scum.

          • Smilee

            Rant on like the retard you are but that will not change the fact Obama is president and you do not like that, man up and get over it as there is absolutely nothing you can do about it

        • Daniel from TN

          I AM familiar with how the Electoral College operates. I studied it in both high school (where it is no longer taught) and college. The comment I made was about the few electors who have already stated they will not vote for obama. Those few votes will not change the outcome of the election results.
          BTW. This was NOT wishful thinking on my part. Those electors have actually announced their intentions.

  • Smilee

    This post of yours is more unreal making my point about you true, your a fool, pure and simple!!

  • http://google David

    This may be symbolic. It is though an extremely frustrated group of patriots that are, as I, at the end of the road witnessing the erosion of America. Leave them be or join them. Election is over and another struggle as the previous four is eminent.

  • Ed

    The secession petitioners are quite aware that the president has no constitutional power to deny or grant secession and that such petitions have no realistic chance of succeeding. But I’m surprised that a political commentator like Chip Wood could not see the secession petitions for what they really are: a unique and striking political protest representing the view that America is no longer America, and that reversion to its former self is no longer possible. Secession, however, will succeed within the next 75 years (and probably much sooner) when the Hispanics begin to fragment America…with the blessings of the very same political types that fiercely condemn secession today.

  • Samuel Clemens

    I wrote:Samuel Clemens has been quoted as saying, “When I meet a man without a sense of humor, I can’t help but wonder, what other emotions are missing?” People without a sense of humor will probably have a problem with below:

    Governor Rick Perry of Texas mentioned that Texas has the right to seceded from the United States of America by the terms of the Treaty of Hidalgo under which the independent nation of the Republic of Texas joined the United States. Started a mini firestorm. Here’s the plan:

    After Texas becomes an independent nation again, the northeastern states (Yankees) could secede and become the Union of Socialists States of America. (USSA). Bill and Hillary could be King and Queen, Obama, the Prime Minister.

    The southeastern states could again become the Confederate States of America, without slavery, of course. Individual states rights sounds pretty good.

    California could become Mexicali. The only problem would be San Francisco which is too liberal even for California. San Francisco could become a Principality like Monaco or the Vatican, a city state. The Grand Duchess Nancy Pelosi could be in charge. She thinks she’s royalty already.

    Oklahoma could become the Indian Nation again, like before we took their lands the second time. This would require rounding up all the whites and relocation them to reservations somewhere to the West. (called poetic justice)

    The remaining states could remain the USA, unless they have better plans for their future. Iowa could be problem.

  • Newspooner

    It swould be a waste of time for Massachusetts to secede because the communists are in as firm control of this state as they are of the country.

  • braindeadus

    ll hail the great country of Texas!!!!!!!!!

    • ralph schindler sr

      Study the founding of the United States Of America and ALL of the people who signed the Constitution especially JEFFERSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PS. TAXES!!!!MONEY!!!!TAXES!!!!MONEY!!!!TAXES!!!!MONEY STUDY!!!!STUDY!!!!

      • Smilee

        HA! HA! Jefferson never signed the Constituion

        • ralph schindler sr

          Yes you are RIGHT but STUDY any way !!!!!

  • Tea Party Marine

    I can’t believe for a second that Obama would cave on allowing any state to secede! There isn’t anything for him to gain in doing so except (read further)! Remember that any time Obama does something (not says something), there is a hidden agenda or goal behind it. He has pushed through the NDAA bill on New Years Eve last year when no one was looking. This bill authorizes Obama to throw out the constitution in the event of an emergency (in his own mind). It would be considerably easier to round all of us conservatives up in a few states than to go door to door. This bill allows Obama with the stroke of a pen, to take all of our belongings and intern us all in work camps. It’s coming my friends!

    • http://www.facebook.com/kansas.bright Kansas Bright

      So does Agenda 21, except (like the Patriot Act) the name is “human habitat areas” not “internment camps”. Still under guard, still etc.

      It takes away our right to own propery, businesses, cars, etc.

      Semper Fi!
      Stay safe and detention Free.

      • BR549

        KB wrote: “So does Agenda 21, except (like the Patriot Act) the name is “human habitat areas” not “internment camps”. Still under guard, still etc. ………. It takes away our right to own propery, businesses, cars, etc.”

        The hard core Bush and Obama minions still can’t believe that all of this could have been taking place without them knowing about it, so therefore, it can’t be true. We’ve already witnessed that type of blind mindless loyalty here on this thread, but it seems that author must be out trying to dredge up more propaganda to support his fragile and fanciful believe system.

  • JAPCEC

    Lucy, we are not, nor have we ever been a democracy! The USA is a representative Republic. Do the words “I pledge allegiance to the United States of America and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands” sound remotely familiar to you?

  • Peaches57

    Born and raised in SC, I am very familiar with “States’ Rights!” and the right to secede. Unfortunately, the same people who understand that the fiscal cliff is fast approaching and why, neglect to understand just how deeply in bed they and their own states are with the Federal Government.

    Everything that happens in every state is completely dependent on the Federal Government. Police departments,fire departments, infrastructure, and schools are all so fiscally dependent on Federal monies that, if their state secedes, these ‘public services’ will shut down…not cut back, shut down completely. This includes everything from road repairs to water and sewer pumps, fire trucks through SPED support, free breakfast and lunches for the poor, and even to subsidized prices for grocery-store foods. Unless you are self-sufficient enough to live without these things, or have a plan to tax your own people twice as much to replace the massive federal funding that you do not see pouring into your community – and few communities and states are or do – most state economies would collapse within the first year after secession. Denial of this very real dependency, or insisting, “WE could handle it!” only displays your ignorance at how deeply you and your children are dependent on Federal monies. Are you willing to pay $50 for a pound of hamburger? Are your public employees willing to defend your lives and property for free, or at substantially reduced wages and with far less equipment? Are you willing to support, house, and feed your own poor – or do you think you can ship them to a non-seceding state? Do you think that all of your disabled and retired persons can live without their Social Security checks and Medicare?

    Most folks who talk about secession have literally no idea from where their food and water actually comes, or who pays for it; much less about the deeply embedded dependence to which their own local and state governments have shackled them. Most of you had better pray that Obama doesn’t let loose of his arrogant self-righteousness long enough to wake up to the practicality of turning seceding states loose from their indebtedness and dependence – and dump