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Trusting The Liars

November 14, 2011 by  

Trusting The Liars

If you’re going to take someone’s advice, who would you choose: the person who had been consistently right or the person who always got it wrong?

Or, to put it another way, if a person had a history of consistently making statements that proved inaccurate, would you continue to put faith in anything that person said?

The obvious answer is that you would choose the advice of someone with a proven track record of being correct. To do otherwise is pure folly.

Yet the American people continue to follow the foolish path. In so doing, they act against their own best interests.

For instance: Why do people continue to believe that following the advice of Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke — or his predecessor, Alan Greenspan, for that matter — will lead us to the end of the economic malaise in which we currently languish? Greenspan’s easy-money policies created the housing bubble that burst in 2008. Bernanke, who replaced Greenspan in 2006, continued Greenspan’s policies through the crash and beyond. And the housing crash and ensuing Great Recession (which is really a depression) blindsided him, if he’s been telling the truth.

As late as mid-2007, Bernanke said he thought the economy was behaving perfectly and would continue to expand and prosper.

But there were many who recognized otherwise.

In 2007, Peter Schiff published his book Crash Proof: How to Profit from the Coming Economic Collapse. He obviously saw what was looming on the horizon.

In the December 2006 issue of my newsletter, The Bob Livingston Letter™ I wrote:

The U.S. housing market is the largest market in the world. You can imagine what economic madness lies ahead.

The housing bubble was created to burst. It is a mess and the whole world is holding its breath. Hot air will not support anything, but this is the foundation of the housing bubble.

And as far back as March 4, 2003, Ludwig von Mises Institute adjunct scholar Frank Shostak wrote on

If the pool of real funding is in trouble at present then this is likely to undermine various markets including the housing market. Moreover, the more aggressive the Fed’s loose stance is, the worse it is for the productive capacity of the economy. This in turn raises the likelihood that the liquidation of past excesses is likely to be imposed in earnest this time around.

Observe that the likely burst of the housing market bubble is on account of the decline in the pool of real funding and not a tighter stance on the part of the Fed. This contradicts the popular view, which holds that as long as the Fed keeps interest rates at low levels the housing market will remain strong.

And Congressman Ron Paul, who is the only Presidential candidate who warned of the coming bubbles and has preached against inflation and in favor of sound money for 30 years, also saw it coming.

So what gives? Why were the elite “experts” surprised?

The truth is, they weren’t. Some may have been, but certainly not Greenspan and Bernanke. They just want you to believe they were “surprised” by the events they orchestrated. In truth, they have overseen the greatest criminal enterprise to ever exist.

Through its money-printing policies, the Federal Reserve has presided over the theft and plunder of the wealth and savings of the American people that is unprecedented in history. Their masters love them because they have transferred trillions of dollars of wealth from the American people to the money creators through devaluation of the currency.

Last week, I made an effort to explain the Federal Reserve and how it came to be to the 95 percent who do not understand it. Now, I’m going to try to explain inflation.

This is something that probably not one in a million people understands, yet is an issue that is of utmost importance. Your financial health and well-being rests upon this understanding. When you do understand it, it will affect every financial and political decision you make.

Some consider inflation rising prices. That is incorrect, rising prices are simply symptomatic of inflation.

Inflation is the increase in the money supply and credit. The word “inflation” once applied only to the quantity of money. It meant that the volume of money was inflated, blown up or overextended.[i]

As the money supply is increased, people have more money to offer for goods. But if the supply of goods doesn’t increase — or increases at a slower pace than the money supply — the prices of goods goes up. Each individual dollar becomes less valuable because there are more dollars available. This leads to more of them being offered for a commodity. A “price” is an exchange ratio between a dollar and a unit of goods. When people have more dollars, they value them less. Goods then rise in price, not because there are fewer goods than before, but rather because there are more dollars available.[ii]

Continued inflation caused severe distortions within the U.S. economy and in financial relations around the world. At home, an artificially created “easy-money” policy encouraged people to incur more debt for new houses, new cars, new appliances, etc., at prices that continued to rise. Businessmen were encouraged to venture on new undertakings that could not have been profitable under stable monetary conditions. It led to rampant speculation in real estate, securities and other things; and it became so rampant, in fact, that things such as real estate began to be thought of as an investment.[iii]

This sounds like something that was written within the past year or two to describe the crash. But, in fact, it comes from a publication first published in 1955. That is why I say that it is impossible that Greenspan and Bernanke didn’t see what was coming.

But why do governments want — nay, encourage — inflation? Schiff explains it very well. He writes that inflation is the government’s silent partner and is used to secretly confiscate the public’s money:

There are five reasons for creating inflation:

  1. Inflation makes the national debt more manageable because it can be repaid in cheaper dollars.
  2. In a democracy full of personally indebted voters, the government will pursue monetary policies hospitable to debtors even as it accommodates the special interests that lend to them.
  3. Inflation finances social programs that voters demand but avoids the politically unpopular alternative of higher taxes, allowing Uncle Sam to play Santa Claus.
  4. Inflationary spending is confused with economic growth, which is confused with economic health. (Of course, GDP numbers are theoretically adjusted for inflation, but that doesn’t mean much if the inflation figures are misrepresented.)
  5. Inflation causes nominal asset prices to rise, such as those of stocks and real estate, instilling in the minds of voters the illusion of wealth creation even as the real purchasing power of their assets falls.[iv]

In my own book, Burning Your Money, I wrote that anything that artificially increases aggregate demand for goods and services is inflation. It could be lowering interest rates, increasing credit or money printing, as the Fed has been doing with its so-called quantitative easing.

This is the uncomfortable truth the money creators don’t want you to know. But why would they want to hide it?

Schiff writes that governments hide inflation because it keeps the interest on national borrowing low, allows the government to keep Social Security payments as low as possible and allows for lower interest rates for consumers, which encourages the phony expansion of the debt-dependent economy.[v]

By hiding the truth, the money creators seek to control the system, or non-system of fiat dollars which they use to control us. Americans believe they have trillions of dollars in savings and investments. In truth, what they have is only numbers, not substance. It is fiat, which is “money” only by the decree of the “authority” of government.

Yet, time after time, Americans listen to the solutions posed by those “experts” that are “in charge” and trust them to tell the truth and do what is best for the country and the economy. And they wonder why, three years after the crash, nothing seems to have changed and the “experts” are pushing for more of the same.

[i]  What You Should Know About Inflation, by Henry Hazlitt, p. 2.
  What Would More Inflation Mean To You?, the American Institute for Economic Research, p. 5.
  Crash Proof, by Peter Schiff, pp. 72-73.
  Ibid, p. 73.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Insurgent

    Washington, DC is America’s cesspool for liars, whores, and thieves.

    • ralph herman

      I have learned over the years that very few in government can’t be bought and those that can don’t belong the the people they”Serve??”.Serve one term and go back home and go to work.There is too much corruption in DC in both major parties

      • DaveH

        And that is because Government is just too damn Big. Let’s change that. Vote Libertarian:

        • JTB


          • DaveH

            Okay, let me explain it in simpler terms for you, JTB. If the size of our Government was greatly reduced, corruption would be greatly reduced because Government wouldn’t have its tentacles into so many things in our economy, thus there would be fewer reasons for corrupt people to bribe their favorite Politicians and Bureaucrats. Get it now?

          • USAF VET

            Eliminate ALL lobbyists. Then go from there, but we can’t go Libertarian because it would tear our country apart. I know you don’t think so DaveH, but I have known some libertarians and they raally scare me with some of the tactics they want to use.

          • DaveH

            Come on, Vet. You’ve risked your life in the Air Force and you are afraid of Freedom?
            I can’t vouch for your Libertarian friends because anybody can claim to be anything they want, but True Libertarians are as far away from scary as anybody can get. We have absolutely no desire to mess with your life choices as long as you don’t trespass on our bodies or property.

          • denniso

            Libertarians are going nowhere,never have,never will. Libertarians are basically either naive in their trust of individuals in a capitalist,dog eat dog system…or they are just greedy and self centered enough to want to exploit others. Either way,they are essentially a very tiny minority w/ no clout. Ron PAul as their standard bearer indicates just that.

          • JC

            And denniso proves once again that Liberals see bad in everything.
            I think that “liberals” need to to live in a socialist society in a different country sinse they know nothing of human civility.
            Let THEM eat each other alive when there’s no nasty capitalists to provide for them.

          • DaveH

            Sorry, Denniso, but you Liberals have proved over and over again with your tactics of Force and Coercion that you are the Dog-eaters.

        • Capitalist at Birth

          Libertarians do not have a chance of winning any election. Why are you beating your head against the wall?

          • JeffH

            Capitalist at Birth, other than the fact you despise Libertarians, just what do you hope to accomplish by parroting your comments over and over? If you haven’t noticed already, nobody’s buying your shtick!

          • JC

            I guess because it’s at least nobler than voting for one of the same two criminal parties over and over and over and over…until we get the thoroughly corrupt and irrepairable system we have today.
            Restore the Republic!

          • DaveH

            I’m not beating my head against the wall, Capitalist. I’m voting on Principle. You ought to try it.
            I have often sacrificed comfort and money for my morality. But, I like myself. That’s more important than all the money in the world.

          • Joe H.

            Are you THAT sacred of the Libertarian creed??? Are you afraid of smaller government? Freedom? Are you THAT SCARED OF OUR CONSTITUTION??? I suggest you see a Dr. about that over riding phobia!! As to the over riding part, it is over riding your common sense!!!

      • denniso

        Maybe we trust people like Bernake because they are highly trained in the field of economics? Can they be wrong ever? Sure! Economics is not a hard science where facts and numbers are sacrosanct. It’s partly an art,where human emotion and psychology are an integral aspect in the economy. They can also be as wrong as Greenspan was in believing the childish libertarian babble of Ayn Rand,who professed a silly and utterly uninformed believe in ‘free’ markets unhindered by ANY regulation,and that greed was good as a necessary part of the glorious ‘free’ market.

        As to this being a depression we’re in? Don’t think so…walk out on the street and count the number of $30,000 and $40,000 cars/SUVs buzzing around unconcerned about the paltry 20-25 mpg they get on a tank of gas. Drive through an average neighborhood and notice all the oversized homes w/ multiple nice cars out front,many w/ pools in the back. Walk into any level of cafe/restaurant and see how many people are eating out and dropping a hundred $ and more for dinner. Check out the lines in any airport around the country and try telling me we are living in a depression…where are all the mllions of people flying to and how can they afford it?

        We have had job growth for about 2 yrs,it’s just not large enough to catch up to the population growth that adds millions of new workers every yr,or enough to make up for all the jobs lost during the initial stages of the crash. A real depression would look fundamentally different than what we have now. Also it would look different than the first 2 yrs of the Reagan term,which was almost exactly what we have going on now…the big difference is that this crash was the largest since the real Depression 80 yrs ago,and this will take more time getting out of than the Reagan recession did…especially w/ the rightwing extremist, Ayn Rand lovers blocking absolutely any solutions to help the problem.

        • Bob J

          You are absolutely right!!

        • Zack

          denniso you really are in the tank for the Progressive/Socialist foolsmwho are not only underming our Country but are determined to bankrupt and ruin it. Please try to get your head out of the sand and educate yourself. The “Economists” whom you revere have been consistantly wrong, time after time, while enriching themselves and their colleagues at the expense of the American people. Grow up!

          • denniso

            And who is it you think knows what’s best for the economy? Politicians? The totally uneducated in economics rabble? The vaunted tea partiers w/ guns strapped to the hips? You,like most in this country,also are likely not educated in economics,right? Most of those who bitch the loudest have little idea about how their glorious ‘free’ market is even supposed to work. You?

          • DaveH

            You are one of those who are totally uneducated in Economics, Denniso. Don’t pretend otherwise. That is why you must Liberally sprinkle your comments with ridicule and name-calling. If you knew the facts that wouldn’t be necessary.
            I would debate your previous comment, but I doubt that the intelligent readers need my rebuttals to figure out that a guy, who judges the economy based on how many expensive cars he can count, has no clue what he’s talking about.

          • Alex Frazier


            I’m educated in economics. I bitch loud, and I know precisely how the free market works.

          • Old Henry


            Denniso has been wandering around the halls here for quite some time and has not learned a thing – nor will he.

            Denniso is one of those socialists who thinks the U.S. needs to be smacked down a peg or two because we as a nation have become so prosperous and the envy of the world.

            He has no interest in becoming informed as socialists are the do as I say, I know best whatis best for you and everyone else. That is their mindset, their core belief.

            They should all be given a one-way ticket to Europe where they can live among like-minded socialists and leave this country for folks who want to prosper and grow.

          • Caroline

            What many are not considering is that perhaps Greenspan and Bernanke knew exactly what they did and did it deliberately. Perhaps they are the brilliant economists everyone believes them to be. But greed can get the best of a person. They manipulated the economy to benefit a small group of the population and it worked! They got richer and the rest of us got poorer. As for counting those with big homes and expensive cars to gauge whether we are in a depression or not, how many of those people are barely getting by with their loan payments? How many are in foreclosure? Wasn’t it only a few years ago that the government encouraged people to trade in their junk cars for more expensive cars with a tax break and lower interest rates? Now they have these loans on new cars and are still broke!

          • meteorlady

            Denniso – I have a Masters in economics and I WRITE my congressional representatives all the time. It’s probably doing no good, but I try. As for your comments, free enterprise is good. If I don’t make money, I don’t perform simple right?

          • DaveH

            Denniso doesn’t learn, probably because he has his hand in the till and doesn’t want to learn. He told us at one time that he built houses for a living. I don’t believe him, but if true, I could sure see why he begs for that Big Government, because the home-building industry would suck for quite a while if Government wasn’t bailing out the home builders with other peoples’ money.

          • JC

            denniso, just do yourself and everyone else a favor, get out of America. That you were born here is an obvious mistake of nature.

        • eddie47d

          I see little wrong with Bob Livingston’s article (one of his best)and that of Denniso. Denniso was hardly defending Bernanke either. To me Bob was saying why can’t we get it right after all these years and we have all fallen into this false trap of accepting inflation.We saw higher home prices and thought we owned a gold mine but it was a false illusion.

          • Old Henry

            Holy cow eddie! It appears that some of The Livingston School of Free Thinkers is begining to sink in! Congratulations. In a while you mab be able to leave the annex and walk in the actual halls with the rest of us.

            (Oh, and please keep that snow and ferocious wind out there with you)

          • meteorlady

            We saw higher home prices because of artificial manipulation of the market. The first indicator that something was wrong is when home prices rose faster that rising wage and salary income. Most people believe that home prices rise, but in fact most rises are the result of inflation.

            At the same time credit was fast and loose and people signed on to make money buying houses they could not afford. People created a bubble in private debt thinking that the good times would just last and last.

            While home prices were rising, people that were buying home only had a 2% increase in their income. Once housing started to collapse the mortgage market went, followed by the stock market. Now discretionary spending is low, it’s really not very economical to own a home anymore, and the stock market is up and down like a yo yo.

            Here’s the topper though – in 1960 our national DEBT

          • OB1

            Eddie, you’re scaring me….gave you up a while ago…are you…considering to research for yourself accurate information elsewhere besides this site? Good grief…an open mind able to research on one’s own…what a thought…at least until Net Neutrality shuts down contrary opinion as well as archives a research material. BTW, Net Neutrality seems to be going into effect November 20th. I am personally very upset about this.

        • Alex Frazier


          Please demonstrate how free markets unhindered by regulation is a silly and uninformed belief.

          Greed is a necessary part of the free market process because it is the service of self interest that dictates prices, labor, profits, supply and demand, etc. It is human nature to look out for one’s own best interest. It is also human nature to seek to obtain goods or services with the least amount of personal labor expended.

          So as people, we look for the lowest prices, the greatest quantities, and the least painful way to aquire both. In a system that functions on the great illusion of money, the more money you have, the greater the quantity of pleasures and necessities you can meet in your own life. The more money you have, the less concern you have for your own well being, and that of your posterity, as you grow to old age. The more money you have, the more goods and services you can obtain with the least amount of effort.

          This is greed, and it is part of human nature.

          So people will seek the means to obtain and horde as much wealth as they can, in ever more innovative ways. This produces business and industry. No one starts a fur business because they have some desire to see all women wearing fur coats. They start the business because the women desire to see themselves in the fur coats, and the business man knows that he can profit from this demand by providing the supply.

          So it’s ignorant to say that greed isn’t a necessary part of a healthy economy. It’s what makes the wheels of industry turn.

          And the right wing extremists, as you call them, are not blocking solutions. They are blocking additional obstacles to a healthy recovery. Things like the Jobs Bill proposed by Obama do nothing at all but take from one area and give to another. It’s a shift of resources, not the creation of jobs. The government isn’t capable, financially, of creating anything. Every dollar spent to build a bridge is a dollar taken from a citizen who would have spent it on something else.

          I would like to say, however, that although I think your take on economics lacks any real substance, I do agree that we are not in a depression. Prices and wages right now are both sticky. In a depression, prices and wages drop. It’s the opposite of inflation, where prices and wages increase. What we’re actually dealing with is a recession, where no one is really spending much money due to a lack of confidence. Although our situation does also match the criteria for stagflation.

          • Old Henry

            Well stated Alex. However, we do have Depression era unemployment levels with actual unemployment at or near 20%.

          • DaveH

            Most important, Alex, is that in Free Markets, the people can choose the employment they desire (including starting their own businesses), and they can choose who to trade with — Voluntarily. Unlike in Unfree Markets where Government busy bodies restrict our choices, usually to feather their own or some Crony Capitalist’s nest.
            The regulations, that Denniso thinks we can’t do without, in fact punish the good business operators by saddling them with unnecessary paperwork meant to (ostensibly) thwart the bad business operators. Instead we need just laws to punish the bad players when they actually are fraudulent and leave the good players alone.

          • Michael Neibel

            Right on Alex. Whenever someone attacks greed they are attacking self-interest whether they know it or not. People hate free markets precisely because they are not based on the morality of self-sacrifice. The words “inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” are not words of self-sacrifice but are words of rational self-interest.

          • denniso

            Alex…do you consider anti trust,anti collusion and anti monopoly laws to be regulation? If you know any economics then you know that before we instituted any of those laws we had nothing like a ‘free’ market. A truly free market quickly degenerates into monopoly and collusion. Not to mention that there are many aspects of human society that don’t work well,or at all,under ‘free’ markets. Everyone knows that if they read or think about it. The military,roads,sewerage systems,water treatment,flood control,healthcare,police/fire protection,all don’t work well or at all under free markets. Why did we come to the point a hundred yrs ago and more when society decided that the market couldn’t or wouldn’t do some things? Because we and other countries tried the market and it didn’t work. Why did we decide that banks had to be regulated? Because we tried it w/o regulation and it didn’t work! We’ve been through all this before,and we know the results. How many times do you people want to run the same failed experiment and get the same results,before you see the writing on the wall?

            Gov’t services and gov’t regulation are not perect,but neither is the mythical ‘free’ market.

            And to DaveH,the big talker…I told you what I did and still do for a living,among other things…all self employment. You chose to call me a liar,fine. You never told the people here where the money came from for you and the company you worked for to get paid in the aeronautical design business…most likely gov’t contracts,since there is almost no such thing as totally independent and self sufficient airplane companies that make all their money from totally non gov’t contracts. You most likely made a whole career off taxpayer money,especially so since you won’t talk about it.

          • DaveH

            You are a liar, Denniso.
            I proved it right here in this thread:

            Denniso said — “DaveH,for instance,has lived off of gov’t contracts for his working life and now collects benefits from the gov’t and a gov’t supported pension”.
            That was a lie, Denniso. But then, you are a Liberal so I guess we’re supposed to cut you slack for doing what Liberals do so well.

          • Alex Frazier


            Natural market forces are more powerful than you give them credit for. As Hayek points out, it was the free market system that brought us to the point of innovation, technological advancement, and the great expansion of industry and civilization. It was only then that governments began to impose controls under the false auspices of protection.

            In other words, the free markets got us there, but it takes government control to keep us there.

            The free market experiment was not a failure.

            In contrast, government control deems every success a failure, every innovation a negative, every step forward a step backward.

            If a man creates a product or service, he has the right to “pursue happiness” by capitalizing on his invention to the best of his ability. He has the right to make it the best it can be. He has the right to establish relationships with raw material vendors, with clientele, and with his consumer customer and retailer base.
            Should that man decide to collude with another person to ensure that the profit of his invention or service is protected against encroachment by would-be copycats, he should have the right to do so. If the qualtiy, price, and excellence of his product should result in a natural monopoly, then it should be recognized as the product of his successful efforts.

            Government control, on the other hand, would tell him that because there are others who feel they should have a piece of his pie, he cannot control the whole of his innovation. He is required to give up a piece of it to those who did not have the same vision, but are merely borrowing from him.
            Government control would tell him that he cannot establish relationships with vendors for exclusivity. He is required to share his vendor base, rather than being able to control the supply relative to the demand to ensure price integrity and stability.
            Government control would tell him that he cannot work together with vendors of his choice to prevent others from becoming competition to his innovation. He wants to discourage others from becoming competition, but the government won’t allow such a thing.

            So the free market has been tried, and it was an overwhelmning success. What has been a definitive and provable failure is government control.

            Although, for the record, I think that military, roads, water treatment and sewerage, flood control, police and fire protection all fall to the duties of the state or federal government, because they are benefits enjoyed by all.

            Healthcare is the business of the individual.

            I also agree that the free market has its own issues. But nearly so much as a government controlled system.

          • DaveH

            Read this Free online book, Alex, to discover that even such services as road building, police, and firefighters would be better served by the private sector:

            We already have private roads being built (toll roads, etc.), and private police services. And when services are provided by the private sector we aren’t nearly so likely to be treated in a condescending way as we are by Government workers.
            If you get a chance to read “How Capitalism Saved America” you will discover that many (if not most) of the roads across America were built privately.

          • denniso

            DaveH accuses me of being on the gov’t dole,a lie. I’ve asked him where the money came from that provided his aeronautical engineering salary,and he won’t say. So I then feel free to assume that the company he worked for and retired from was supported by gov’t contracts. He can clear it up and tell us if he is a hypocrite or not.

            Alex,all countries have a mix of private and gov’t involvement in their economies,the question is what is the balance that works best. No modern large economies are all private,why? Because it has been tried and failed over and over. Research and developement? The internet came from military and university roots,neither one of which is all private.

          • DaveH

            There he goes again. You lie, Denniso. I accused you of advocating for Big Government because they subsidize your industry. That is, if it really is your industry. Since you have proven yourself to have no credibility, who knows?

          • DaveH

            Denniso just keeps on fishing. He’s mad because I won’t take his bait.
            While I’m on that subject, Folks, let’s analyze the typical Liberal methods that Denniso is employing. His kind uses other peoples’ money to give you unsolicited gifts. Then if you take them, they try to guilt you into doing things their way. What manipulative creeps they are. Beware, Folks, of Greeks bearing gifts.

          • denniso

            Mad? Bait? You are delusional…You accuse others of ‘being at the trough’,and ‘being on the gov’t dole’,all while you won’t tell your fellow gov’t haters where your money came from…like I said,probably from gov’t contracts. You are probably a hypocrite,like most of the people here who have had gov’t or gov’t supported jobs and then bitch and whine about big gov’t. You choose not to be honest and disclose where your company’s contracts came from,well I imagine that even the slowest of the rightwingers here can then draw the correct conclusion for themselves.

            I built/designed modest sized homes,one at a time,w/ no gov’t help. The only incentive involved was the mortgage deduction for the owner,which was never very large or a deciding factor. If you want to do away w/ all supports,subsidies,incentives,then maybe you could start w/ the billions that support the fattest of the fatcats who run the oil/gas industry. The mortgage deduction is in place to help Americans afford the high cost of getting into a home,a seemingly good idea. It should be confined to first homes w/ a cap that excludes the wealthy and their mansions.

            You are meaningless to me and hardly worth an emotion like ‘mad’.

          • denniso

            It’s interestin g to me that most people who bitch about ‘big government’ seldom or never complain about our big,bloated military,which makes up a very large part of our big gov’t. Why hasn’t the tea party suggested cutting the military budget by 10% and saving over $50 billion per yr? Why don’t supposed conservatives who are supposedly concerned about our debt propose bringing home most of our soldiers from bases around the world? Why don’t we all suggest that our military is too damn big and expensive and wasteful,and that it’s time we cut it down to a reasonable size?

            We spend as much on military as the entire rest of the world does…does that make any sense at all??

          • Alex Frazier


            Large economies that failed were due to government interference. The destructive factors of an economy are begat by force. A coercive monopoly, for example, is not the result of free trade, but of government intervention. A natural monopoly can always be entered by someone with enough capital, but a coercive monopoly is prohibited to them by law. Price controls don’t exist in a natural market. It takes government interference to fix prices. Unproductive industry can’t exist in a free market. It takes government subsidy to keep them afloat.

            Name an alleged free market failure, and I’ll tell you the government interference that caused it.

            And for the record, Ron Paul advocates cutting a significant part of the military budget (not the defense budget).

          • Alex Frazier

            Dave, I went and read that book. I appreciate the link. It was enjoyable. But although some of his ideas on the privatization of roads, police, etc. were appealing in many ways, some of it would be contrary to the Constitution.

            For example, Congress has the authority to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions. To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress (Article I, § 8, PP 15-16).

            In short, a portion of the civilian population (the Militia) is to be trained, armed, organized, disciplined, and governed in the employment of the United States to execute the laws of the Union.

            That’s the police, who are trained, organized, armed, and governed by the United States in their employ, but who are not military personnel.

            Paragraph 7 also provides for Post Offices and Post Roads. Toll roads are not prohibited, but since the Post Office delivers to all addresses, it is difficult to argue against government financed roads. This is not to say that it’s the best way, but it’s in the Constitution. The Congress has the authority to build roads.

            Then in Article III, § 1, it says that the judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the Supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their offices during good behavior, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services a compensation which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office.

            So courts and justice are administered by the government through judges performing a compensable service.

            I see what Rothbard is saying concerning these issues, and I don’t disagree with the merit of his arguments. But until we start from scratch and build a brand new government and Constitution, it’s not likely to come to pass.

        • ken

          Based on what you wrote you must work for the Federal Reserve. So how is it under Ben’s desk?

          • Old Henry

            Now Ken, civil discourse, civil discourse…

          • BrotherPatriot

            Now THAT was funny, Ken!

            God Bless your humor. :D

          • Joe H.

            O H,
            Ken sounded pretty civil to me! ACCURATE TOO!!!

        • Jerome Bigge

          True. What has happened is that those whose labor is no longer needed are unemployed. In many cases their jobs have been “exported” to lands where people are ready and eager to work for far less than Americans could afford to accept. Most likely these jobs for the most part won’t be coming back. Our young people need to understand that for job security, you need to be in an occupation that has to be “done here” in the USA. A job that can’t be “exported” somewhere else. This is the reality that is being ignored by most people. Too, self employment will have to become more common instead of seeking someone to hire you. Consider your abilities, your skills. What service can you offer the general public? As I write this, a team of self employed people are doing up the leaves in my yard. These same people cut my grass in the summertime. Clean up in the spring. Will take care of the snow in the wintertime. Their jobs can’t be “exported”. Learn from them what you need to do!

          • Alex Frazier

            Good thoughts Jerome. Well said. Instead of fighting to preserve jobs that are more efficiently done elsewhere, focus on the jobs that can’t be and develop our industry at home with products unique to our nation.

          • Old Henry


            Our presidency has been outsorced to Africa.

          • DaveH

            The jobs would come back in a heartbeat, Jerome, if Government would just get their meddling hands out of the Marketplace, and quit spending and wasting our financial resources.
            Government consumes 40% of our GDP. Is it any wonder there isn’t much leftover for productive capital investment? In the 1950s, we got by with Government spending of only 23%. I was there, and things were just fine with that much smaller level of Government.
            And on top of that, they cost our economy much money indirectly by burdening our businesses with unnecessary regulations. My girlfriend just filled out 8 forms just to get a part time job. She isn’t even starting her own business. Imagine the hoops those poor business people have to jump through.

          • Joe H.

            That is part of the reason 40 years ago I followed my father into welding! good pay, steady work and even if one job in welding is exported there is always another!! I have never been unemployed longer than 2 to 3 months! now I work for myself and set my own hours.

        • Jibbs

          You might want to come out from under that rock your under.

        • meteorlady

          The reason Reagan and Carter got us out of the depression faster is they refused to allow more money printing, bailouts or economic aid to corporations. They hastened the depressions in a way, but they also made it last a lot less longer than it is going to last today. Look to Japan, it has taken them over 10 years to recover and they all the same crap they are doing today.

          As for jobs, I run a business and I don’t hire because I don’t have customers. As Ayn Rand said – don’t create a product for customers, I create a product because I have customers. Right now I don’t have customers and most of your job figures are government jobs, not private sector. If REAL unemployment was reported, it would be somewhere around 17% more in a lot of states.

          • moonbeam

            Actually, I think the unemployment rate is much higher than 17%. The percentage rate only accounts for the number of people who looked for work in the past four weeks.

            The last numbers I saw were 52% of the people are working and 48% were not. Looks more like 50% unemployment to me. The 17% that the liars try to sell us is called “new math” that doesn’t fully add up to what is really happening.

        • Peter Locke

          Kaynes warned that his ‘Kensian’ economics could be taken too far…which they have. Ann Rand, writing fiction, did not put those warnings in place, and strove mightily against big and intrusive government. If you pay as much attention to Kaynes’ warnings as you do to Ann Rands ‘Free Enterprise’, maybe you’ll come to see that too much of either of them can be damaging.

          • DaveH

            Pick up a copy of “How Capitalism Saved America”. It will open your eyes.

        • MNIce

          denniso, your argument lost what little credibility it had when you described “average” neighborhoods with “oversized” homes, multi-car garages and swimming pools. You obviously haven’t been around enough to know how the average laborer lives. Try getting out of your gated-community suburb and visiting small towns and city neighborhoods. Ask some of the people there how much of their pay goes to taxes instead of on the line on their paycheck, and how much they pay somebody to file their tax returns. Ask them how much more of their budget they spend on food and fuel than they did in 2006 before the Socialists took power in Congress. You might be surprised.

          • Opal the Gem

            Wasn’t it denniso who, within the last couple of weeks, claimed he lives in a gated community?

          • JJ TT

            Does anybody remember the required reading when I was in High School, the “Tale of Two Cities” The French revolution? The lesson that should of been learned? Bring in the gulliotine, ever member of Congress, (including the President) ever member of Federal Reserve, should have a appointment with the gulliotine. Only then will we get corruption out of gov. The day will come!!!!

          • eddie47d

            I’ve seen the exact same thing as Denniso has witnessed. Super Sized homes and full restaurants. Those who have money are doing good and those who have lost their jobs are sinking fast. Indeed a tale of two cities.

          • Old Henry

            I missed that one Opal. From his post I figured Denniso lived in a one-room cabin and drove a tin-can Smart Car to set the example for all those who live in “over-sized houses” and drive big SUVs.

            Oops, never mind.

            Denniso is a Do as I say, not as I do socialist.

          • Old Henry


            That would be pretty messy and we would then have the EPA involved. All that paperwork…

            The Gallows would be as effective and much cleaner. Plus we could do several at once.

          • DaveH

            When I lived in a neighborhood with “super-sized” homes, most of the owners I knew were working for the Government.

          • Joe H.

            That wasn’t denniso, but I do remember it being said!

          • Joe H.

            Old Henry,
            I noticed in the paper tha that little pregnant go-kart called the smart car only gets 37 miles to the gallon!!! You got no room in it, it carries a driver and one passenger and looks like crap. now I have a hundai accent that gets 40 miles to the gallon, has room for four comfortably, five is capacity, carries a months worth of groceries and looks fairly nice!! Why the hell would anybody want one of those things???

          • Opal the Gem

            Thanks JoeH.

          • denniso

            I hardly live in a gated community! I once mentioned that even the rich behind their gates weren’t immune from a degraded society of violence and theft,because they and their kids can’t stay behind their gates all the time. So if we don’t all support a civil,educated and healthy society through tax money and the right policies,then even the rich are vulnerable,not to mention the rest of us.

        • Jay

          denniso says: Maybe we trust people like Bernake because they are highly trained in the field of economics? Can they be wrong ever?

          Not only wrong, denniso, they’re CROOKS! This isn’t an issue about understanding economics, its a question of ethics, and people like Bernake have none! Nice try.

        • Joe H.

          denniso, the job growth has been anemic at best! We even had one month of NO GROWTH AT ALL! take off your rainbow colored sunglasses!!

      • james fiske


        • mickey

          Right on Term limits is the answer and no czars that we cannot discipline quickly.
          Keep up the helpfull comments who knows maybe finally all who discent will excersize their God given right to vote and put America in the hands of patriots and God fearing people who put country ahead of self.

        • Old Henry


          Our Founding Fathers had no concept of career politicians. The populace tried to get Washington to run for a third term, or even stay on permanently, but he said he was not a king. That concept stuck until the communist FDR who felt himself to be a king – much like our current communist Little Barry.

          • DaveH

            FDR was a lying, thieving, murdering, tyrannical Leader. The fact that the Liberals worship him says a lot about their character.

          • denniso

            And would you tell us who he ‘murdered’?? The Nazis?

          • DaveH

            2400 military personnel at Pearl Harbor. Read this book to learn something, Ignoramus:

          • denniso

            Just like the books that say we never landed on the moon? Or the supposed science books that preach creationism? How about the books that purport to show real,live, aliens flying their saucers? Haven’t you figured out yet that supplying the title of a book pushing one provacative point of view proves absolutely nothing? How many books have given us competing conspiracies on the Kennedy assasination? Beyond all that,your rightwing web site is a fraud.

          • James

            I’ll have to side with Dave H. here. “Day of Deceit” by Robert B. Stinnett (2001) completely documents FDR’s plan to force Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. On pages 271-276 are photo copies of Lt. Commander Arthur McCollum’s plan detailing the nine steps, followed by a Summary. The book documents when and how FDR put these steps into action. The final step was to deny Japan any access to oil (it had no oil of its own). At the time Japan had invaded China and needed much oil, they pulled out of China and started to prepare their attack on Pearl Harbor. Thirty-six top FDR adminstrative officials were cleared to have access to Japan’s military movements, but not Admiral Kimmel, at Pearl. Our secretservice had broken Japan’s code and knew precisely every move their fleet made on the way to Pearl, except Kimmel. It tookj Stinnett 18 years using FOIA, to write this book. I suggest everyone should read it.

    • wandamurline

      The big banks owned by American and foreign investors have been manipulating the economy of this country even before the Federal Reserve was established….try 1807 and again in 1878. The reason the Federal Reserve is so named is because the American people did not trust the word bank. Woodrow Wilson gave us the Federal Reserve and did a heavy injustice to the people he took an oathe to represent.
      Did you guys know that Congress can trade stocks with inside information as they have exempted themselves from the criminal charges that anyother American, even Martha Stewart, would have to spend jail time….Nancy Pelosi and her husband use this exemption freely. This is something we must change…if Congress makes the law, they they must abide by the same laws that We The People abide by.

      • eddie47d

        You are correct Wandamurline although those exemptions include both parties and John Boehner.

      • Old Henry


        I saw an article on the internet this morning about that. I never watch “60 Minutes” so I did not actually see it.

        I thought that under Newt in 1993 they passed a bill that required members of Congress to be held to account by the laws they write for their employers.

        • MNIce

          Yes, that is so. And how long did it take Ms. Pelosi et al. to revoke what remained of those rules? As I recall, the change was written before she was sworn in as Speaker and rubber-stamped within hours afterward.

        • moonbeam

          I read that same article, Old Henry, and was appalled that what is illegal for us is not illegal for the elite.

          Guess that’s how Cheny got away with shooting his friend during a hunting expedition.

          Guess this is how obama gets away with having a fake certificate of live birth and a stolen SSN that doesn’t pass eVerify. You and I would be cooling our jets in prison if we tried that.

          Guess that’s how obama gets away with having used three different names, that we know of, in his lifetime.

          Guess that’s how bushboy got away with the insider trading he was involved in. I looked it up and found that info. Here’s a whole page of his insider trading dirty deeds.

          • eddie47d

            That is why it is getting harder to endorse either in the two party system. They are both up to their necks in excrements.

          • Joe H.

            If you are including nobummer in that post, then I congradulate you for opening your eyes a little!!!

    • Raymond

      I could not have said it better,we need to move the Capital and start over.

      • Old Henry

        Raymond, maybe we can get the Queen Mum to foreclose.

        Move the Capital to Chi Ka Go. That way no one would think twice about the illegalities…

    • Evermyrtle

      Why is this true? I have seen this happen. Person looks at politician. They like his looks and say, without any evidence, “HE will do a fine job, he will tell the truth an he will put the public before himself. They see all kind of deviations from what they believe and deny the truth. There are thousands of these blind people voting in America. They see the truth but refuse to believe maybe they can’t stand to make mistakes and will never admit to one.

    • Joe H.

      Insurgent, That’s why they call it DC! District of Corruption!!!

    • Marten

      And dont forget…America, or I should say USSA is the Greatest Exporter of one good only ”Global Monetary Inflation”

    • mark

      Yes and they represent a good cross section of the electorate.

    • Raul Jimenez

      Please don’t compare “whores” with politicians. Whores provide a service.
      Perhaps messy, but a service. Politicians just provide messes. No service. But they take money they never earn as salaries plus bribes (aka “donations”). Some states jail whores for “solicitation”. Politicians don’t have to solicit. They only negotiate for “how much for what”. Example : half a million to pass law to “vaccinate 12 years old females against sexual dec. Comprende? raulji78eases”

  • Sirian

    Since the Federal Reserve has been in existence, 1913, people have been kept in the dark as to it’s true purpose and that it is solely a private corporation. Once they achieved full and complete control back in ’73 when Nixon pulled us off the gold standard we have been ramshackled with so many different schemes that it’s almost impossible to keep up with what’s actually happening. Almost every person I talk with have no idea that the Federal Reserve is a private corporation and is in total control of our money while at the same time almost totally immune from any direct control by our government. This is why the OWS idiots haven’t the slightest idea as to what and who is responsible for the economic abyss that we are now in. Sheeple are the best driving force behind both the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Congress & Senate & POTUS.

    • eddie47d

      OWS not only see’s the problem but probably have to live it (unemployed) more so than some Americans. The OWS lacks leadership and they haven’t figured out how to gel their issues. Since some of our economic problems have been around for decades there are plenty outside of OWS who obviously don’t understand the issues either.Republican and Democrats alike have their own leadership problems in this fight.

      • Old Henry

        I think it was last week that I heard Huckaby on the radio state that a “head-hunter” had set up a table near the OWS offering legitimate jobs. He had TWO of the OWS participants fill out apps. All the rest had excuses as to why they could not fill out apps.

        Click on the link I posted and watch the 4 minute presentation. There is some bad language at the very end.

        • Joe H.

          O H,
          sounds about par for the course!! Like I said above too many of them are looking for things handed to them on a silver platter!!

    • Old Henry
      • eddie47d

        That was “cute”. Is that the same corporations that have taken away those 401′s and threw their employee’s to the wolves? I think a reasonable person wants reasonable things in life whether cell phones or clothing. So this video is only self righteous puffery by this author. It may be unfortunate that all corporations get thrown into the mix when attacking greed but some of those corporations have done harm to America also. Lehman Brothers and the others were real and they hurt the public and the public has responded. Will these “greedy” businesses make changes and show responsibility in how they make profits? This outcome will be interesting.

        • Old Henry

          It’s not self-righteous. It points out the hypocrisy on the part of the Fleabaggers. And they are indeed slobs of the first magnitude.

          Most of them are trust-funders who don’t need to work. I posted a link to an article a couple of weeks ago for Karolyn that pointed out that fact.

          However, there is some contrived violence by interlopers such as went on in CA where black hooded individuals swooped in and began creating violence (I can’t find that link). And police violence in TX. See this link.

          • talkinbout

            Those black hooded people were from a separate self proclaimed anarchist group calling themselves “Black Box”. An OWS spokes person said, “they weren’t invited and they aren’t welcome.”

      • talkinbout

        Old Henry, thanks for the link. I watched it all the way through even though I didn’t agree with everything he was saying. I hope you folks noticed the story in the side bar, “Bill Maher: “New Rules For Occupy Wall Street”. I know you don’t like Maher but if you watch it to the end there is more info on the OWS movement.

        • talkinbout

          Old Henry, I didn’t realize you had posted another link. I’m talking about the first one from you tube.

  • Capitalist at Birth

    I can only hope that there will be more Americans waking up to the facts. We must work at the grass root level to elect Congressmen and Senators who will work to end the Federal Reserve and restore the Gold Standard, otherwise we are doomed to totalitarian rule.

    • bluefish46

      Several people I know who are knowledgeable about such things have told me that the gold you bought in the 1970′s at $250-300 will buy fewer goods today than it did then. If that’s true, how does the gold standard help? What’s the answer?

      • Alcam

        Depends when you bought the gold. It rose massively in the late 1970′s, and reached a higher price in “real” terms (allow inflation) than it is now. However, the reason it rose so much seems to relate to getting rid of the “gold standard”. There are many people now predicting that it will rise a lot more over the next few years. One of the problems is that some organisations are “selling gold”, but they “store” if for you. I understand that these organisations actually only hold about 2% of the gold that they are “selling”. It is a new gambling casino. I guess they learned from the “Banksters .. maybe they are the same people. If I can’t con you into buying “green stuff” anymore, I will sell you yellow stuff. Aren’t I generous!

        • Old Henry


          You are correct. However, I have read that they only hold 1%.

          Never, ever, fall for that scam. Buy PHYSICAL gold and silver. Buy a fire-proff safe and store it yourself.

          Would you feel better with a real female in your hands, or a Playbor Magazine? One is real (physical) the other is make-belive (storing).

          • Sirian

            Outstanding analogy Old Henry! If people can’t tell the difference between worthless paper and actually holding gold or silver in their hand then they’d probably believe M&M’s could cure cancer – if the government said so. . .

          • Peter Locke

            Well, at least the magazine won’t sue you for ‘harassment’!

          • Old Henry

            I thought those new blue ones did cure cancer Sirian…

          • Old Henry

            Yeah Peter, but the pages stick together…

          • Joe H.

            Old Henry,
            You have to watch buying it on the open market like pawn shops and flea markets as well. there are a lot of counterfeit silver and gold coins out there. some of them you can’t tell without knowin the weight of said coin and weighing it!

      • DaveH

        Here is a deep treatment of the value of gold by Ron Paul:

        Gold, like any investment, is subject to be overpriced or underpriced at any one point in time. It’s main value is that of protecting your cash assets from the ravages of inflation due to too much creation of fiat money. So, if you believe that the Federal Reserve is going to continue to print money at a dizzying pace, then you would be willing to pay more for the gold than its current value in order to provide “insurance” against the future devaluation of the dollar. But nobody knows for sure what the future holds, so of course there is some risk. But there usually is for most investments. One thing for sure, is that there is Great Risk in holding too much of your assets in cash investments such as bonds, deposits, and Government securities.

        • meteorlady

          Ron Paul’s portfolio is almost entirely made up of gold and silver mining stocks. He has very little in other areas.

          Allied Nevada Gold Corp.
          Alumina Common
          Anglo Gold Ashanti Ltd.
          Brigus Gold Corp.
          Barrick Gold Corp.
          Claude Rsearch Inc.
          Coeur D’Alene Mines Corp.
          Dundee Bankcorp
          First National Bank of Lk. Jackson
          Gold Corp, Inc.
          Hecla Mining
          El Dorado Gold Corp.
          IAM Gold Corp
          Lexam Explorations Inc.
          Mag Silver Corp
          Metaline Mining
          Mutual Securities
          Newmont Mining Corp.
          Pan American Silver
          petrol Oil & Gas
          Prudent Bear Mutual Fund
          Rydex Dynamic Venture
          Rydes-Ursa Mutual Fund
          Silver Wheaton Corp
          Texas Dow Employees Credit Union
          Texas Gulf Bak
          Virginia Mines
          Vista Gold Corp
          Viterro Inc
          Wesdome Gold Mines

          Seems he practices what he preaches…..

      • moshcustom

        The truth is, an ounce of gold will buy the same amount of goods now that it did then. This can be easily proven by searching archives of the prices of goods and services at any given time and compare them to gold prices at the time. I like to use the example of a nicely equipped new car or a handmade tailored suit. In 1913, gold was valued at $18.92 per ounce. At that time the aforementioned suit cost around $15 and the car went for around $600. In 2011, gold hovers around $1700. Currently, a handmade tailored suit goes for around $1500 and an equivalent new car costs around $50,000. The gold-dollars ratio is approx. 30:1 (gold has the same purchasing power in almost any economy we have experienced in the 20th century), and it holds true for the 70′s where 30 ounces of gold (@ 250oz in ’78-’79)is $7500, which is about what cars cost at that time. Only a gold standard (or a currency based on a strong commodity) can ensure a stable economy. Ron Paul is the only candidate to support reforms that will strengthen our currency.

        • denniso

          Only because of the recent soaring of gold prices has gold essentially just kept up w/ inflation since it was at $285 in the late 70′s. It’s now almost certainly a bubble due to the actions of big banks and deregulators,as well as the uncertainty globally. If things calm down soon,as they probably will,gold will burst,back to under $1000.

          • Alex Frazier

            I agree. Relative to the reported CPI from 1933 to 2001, the price of gold in dollars should be approximately $600 an ounce right now.

            Those CPI figures, of course, are manipulated like many others, but when you do the math, you will find that the price of gold relative to inflation was dead on in 2001. Following the same trend line, gold would be sitting in the $600 range. However, all the precious metals have gone on a divergent trend line into a J curve that very much resembles the spike in palladium in the early 2000s. Palladium, over two or three years, went from $200is per ounce to over $1100, and then dropped all the way back down into an over-correction in the $100s.

            The J curve in the entire PM sector looks just like it, and I suspect that they will all come crashing down as soon as the right piece of news, or the right change in policy, comes to pass.

            We should all own some gold, or silver if you can’t afford the gold. But don’t get caught with your pants down. If you have your whole fortune in gold, or if you are buying on margin, watch out for the plunge. It’ll be coming sooner or later.

          • DaveH

            Wise investors base their decisions not just on current value, but also on future value. Unless somebody like Ron Paul gets in and reigns in Government and the Federal Reserve, we are almost certainly going to see more Government spending and more dollar creation, thus a weaker and weaker dollar which will result in more dollars needed to buy the same amount of Gold.

    • DaveH

      One thing we could do to wake up the people is to elect Ron Paul who is a prime mover in informing the people of reality. He has done more to spread the word than any other man in this country. That is evidenced by the number of Republican candidates who are trying to imitate his platform.
      Yet, Capitalist, who claims we need to spread the word, constantly tries to disparage Ron Paul. Go figure.

      • denniso

        Ron Paul says some interesting and good things.He also goes out on the kook limb at times,and comes across as part kook and part curmudgeon…can’t even come close to winning the nomination. How can a Republican get the nomination if he doesn’t cowtow to the fundamentalists,both religious and political? He can’t. They want someone to return us to a corporate and religious oligarchy. Romney is the sure nominee,so get ready to vote for a kooky Mormon who believes in a kooky and ridiculous religion.

        • meteorlady

          Denniso – he is not a kook. He is the only candidate that is hard working, practices what he preaches, and is HONEST. I’m sure that the GOP has made a deal with Romney and I’m also sure that he is expecting to get the nomination. Since most other candidates do not get equal time in the media I have to assume the media has also “chosen” him. But…. I will not vote for him or Obama – they are both controlled by special interests and Romney can’t even run on his success in his home state because it’s bankrupt.

          • DaveH

            If Ron Paul gets the nomination, I will vote for him. If not, I will vote for the Libertarian Presidential Candidate. There really is no other Principled choice.

          • Joe H.

            denniso says that because Ron Paul, unlike the rest of the pols tells you the truth and not just what you want to hear!!!

          • denniso

            I’ve already said that I don’t dislike everything about Paul,but he has some pretty juvenile and absurd positions that will keep him out…not to mention that he has no charisma or presense at all. ‘If he wins the nomination’?? If a comet hits the earth? If everyone plays nice? If everyone was responsible? If I were rich?

        • DaveH

          As usual, we get what we’ve been accustomed to hearing from Denniso — “He also goes out on the kook limb at times,and comes across as part kook and part curmudgeon”.
          Where’s the substance, Denniso, or don’t you have any?

          • JeffH

            …not to mention the Tea Party with their guns…

        • Old Henry

          Vote Romney Denniso? NEVER. I will vote for the Libertarian.

          • Capitalist at Birth

            So, you are in effect assuring the re-election of Obama. Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • DaveH

            You, Capitalist, are insuring mediocrity. Thanks to people like you I’ve had to watch my once great country slowly turn into a third world nation.

          • eddie47d

            So Capitalist will vote for Romney? Why because he is a smooth talker even though he has flip flopped on almost every social and economic issue. If you loved the Bush wars and the Obama wars you will love Romney even more.

          • Bob Livingston

            Dear Capitalist at Birth,

            You write: “So, you are in effect assuring the re-election of Obama. Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
            No, it’s the elites who are attempting to force a NWO candidate on the electorate who are ensuring the re-election of Obama. Their candidates are Obama, Romney and Perry, as they play both sides against the middle. They are unconcerned as to whether their puppet bears a “D” or an “R”. But by all means they must ensure that the candidate is not named Paul, and to a lesser extent, Cain.

            Best wishes,

          • JC

            Capitalist at Birth says:
            November 14, 2011 at 12:44 pm
            So, you are in effect assuring the re-election of Obama. Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            In case you haven’t noticed Capitalist, Obama is merely the worst of a very long line of Globalists that have been selling us out.
            Go Libertarian.

          • Jay

            Capitalist at Birth will just follow the herd. It’s safer, and easier that way. No thinking involved! Duhh….

          • Old Henry

            No Capitalist, the GOP will be assuring Little Barry’s re-election. Just as they assured his election in 208 with Juan Mc Cain. The Sarah drug him across the finish line.

          • Joe H.

            O H,
            with the help of people like denniso an CAB!!

          • denniso

            I love to see squabbling between the so called libertarians and Repubs! Keep it up,and by all means vote for a libertarian who can’t come close to winning. Political purity is much more important than pragmatism. I too would never vote for Romney,who will be the nominee. His absurd Mormon beliefs should stop anyone in their tracks,even rightwing kooks.

  • Al Sieber

    People don’t want to believe the Govt. is corrupt and lies to them, they deserve who they elect. it’s always been like this.

    • Buddy

      This is a collective society. Not only do those who vote for “them” get what they deserve, but the minority of prudent folks also get the same. The only real answer is to break up the collective and let the political hacks run their little fiefdoms.

      • DaveH

        Exactly. The more we rid our country of Socialism, the safer it will be for those who put the time and effort into learning how to do the right things for their futures. As it stands now, the prudent investors must support those who haven’t made the effort. That’s wrong morally and it’s wrong economically which is why there is a consistent correlation between Big Government and weak economies:

    • Zack

      Al Sieber, unfortunately it is the rest of the Country who must suffer because of the Socialist/Progressives who are currently in charge of the Government.

      • eddie47d

        You missed the bigger point in that this problem has been around for 100 years. That the Federal Reserve has too much power under Republican and Democrats “regimes”. Ron Paul sees the problem and wants to fix it while the rest of the pack would continue this charade.

        • meteorlady

          WOW Eddie – you have certainly evolved on this board. I haven’t been here for a time and I’m impressed that logic has won you over.

          • DaveH

            He’s got a long way to go, Lady.
            And most likely if or when he gets there he will act as if he’s teaching us.

          • Old Henry


            That’s a goodn! LOL!

          • eddie47d

            Actually I could teach Dave a thing or two but his politics in a lock box.One way Dave!

          • DaveH

            That’s because, Eddie, I have Principles. Mine don’t change depending on which party is in office.

        • JeffH

          eddie, I think Zack didn’t miss the point. We can’t fix the Federal Reserve problem until the government problem is fixed. It’s really that simple.(only in relative terms)

          Ron Paul has been the only representative that has dared to consistantly call out the Federal Reserve, who by the way, control our government and our economy. This isn’t a right/left fight, liberal/conservative fight nor a Democrat/Republican fight or a rich CEO-corporatin vs the poor fight…it is a right vs wrong(Federal Reserve, Central banks, World banks)fight and your and my country’s constitutional existance hangs in the balance. The Federal Reserve Act and the Federal Reserve must be abolished plain and simple.

          The sooner the people wake up and realize, this does include the mis-directed co-opted protesters on Wall Street, that we have to remove the failing policymakers in our government and elect leaders with strong constitutional ethics. Our current government system is full of corruption and must be returned to a government bound by a fundamental law…constitutionalism.

          Until this happens…we can kiss the good ole USA goodby!

        • Old Henry

          Mr. Linvingston!!!

          Who has hijacked eddie?! It must be a flacious IP address! Please look into this quickly!

          • JeffH

            OH, don’t be fooled…it’s called parroting…you’ll see…

          • Joe H.

            Old Henry,
            don’t forget to consider that eddie might have bought into CABs mantra so he is supporting R. paul so his hero can get re-elected!!

          • eddie47d

            What else copy and paste Jeff, What else could it be!

          • JeffH

            Parroting again eddie? I thought you had accused Freedom Fighter of copy and paste too? Does that make you jealous because you don’t know how? Two of here have offered to teach you how. Of course, you also get jealous when sc posts the first comments of the day. It must really suck to be envious of others.

  • Jerry

    Ron Paul has it right. Not only does the federal reserve need an audit, they need to be broken up altogether. Any government agency, especially one dealing exclusively (or semi-exclusively, anymore) with fiscal policy that has absolutely no transparency whatsoever, is an open invitation to disaster. And the fed. has caused disaster after disaster. Unbelievable, and we’re all sheep waiting to be shorn if we just sit idly by and not demand at the very least, a complete top to bottom audit of this mysterious agency.

    • Alex Frazier

      Speak for yourself. I’m a ram, and I fight the system any way I can. They can kiss my horns.

    • Lastmanstanding

      the fed a mysterious agency! For God sakes man, do some research!

      • Sirian

        Isn’t if funny that so few have read “The Creature from Jekyll Island”? That one book would enlighten them tremendously if they’d just read it.

        • Alex Frazier

          I’ve read it. It’s a good book. It has a lot of good information in it.

          BUT … it’s not the only book out there, and it’s very conspiracy theoryish (although admittedly in a believable way).

      • DaveH

        Why the attack on Jerry, Lastman?
        The Fed is indeed a mysterious agency to most of the American public. And they prefer it that way.

        • Lastmanstanding

          if one is on this site, he/she had better know damn well what the fed is and who they are…our lives depend on it.

    • JeffH

      Jerry, I think I understand what you mean.

      Here is a link for you so that you know that the Federal Reserve really isn’t that mysterius.

      In particular, scroll down to the title: INTERNATIONAL BANKERS PURSUE THEIR GOAL

    • Old Henry


      Well said, but you made one mis-statement. The Federal Reserve is not a federal agency. It is a privately owned Central Bank – owned by foreign entities.

  • http://trustingtheliers preston

    thank you for letting the public know what is going on with the economy i for one didn’t know but always had suspictions but could not explain why hopr more people get out of this what i did thanks again!

    • Aniko

      Have you ever heard of punctuation? A sentence is ended with a period. Sentences within a phrase are delineated by comas. You completely forgo these rules of writing and expect people to respect your conclusions? I do believe that the likes of you are worshipers of the likes of Bob Livingston and Ron Paul.

      Bob is not saying anything most of us don’t know, except he advocates that ONE man, Ron Paul, IS the solution of what has been going on for decades. Ron Paul’s solution can be “implemented” only if we elect a dictator. I am not ready to elect a miniature man to dictate our future guided by his own visions of right and wrong, with theoretical solutions, regardless of consequences. By him stating in his most recent interview that under no circumstances will he be able to endorse anyone else (claiming that that would be a “betrayal “of his contributors”) tells me all that I need to know: the man is a narcissist in the mold of the present WH occupant.

      Good presidents know how to cooperate, acknowledge and support others when they have lost any chance of becoming THE leader!

      • Zack

        Aniko states, “Good presidents know how to cooperate, acknowledge and support others when they have lost any chance of becoming THE leader!”

        Unfortunately Aniko we do not have a “good President” currenty occupying the WH. He envisions himself as “The Messiah” brought forth to rule, not govern, the citizens/people of this great Republic. May God help us to be rid of him and his cohorts in 2012.

      • Alex Frazier


        What does being a Bob Livingston or Ron Paul supporter have to do with someone having poor grammar or punctuation? Are you trying to suggest that only morons support such men?

        Furthermore, what makes you so special that you can criticize someone over spelling and punctuation? I read all the same posts you do. I’ve had to slog through many poorly written posts. Some of them were even yours. What gives you the right to be such a butthole?

        Moving on to more important things …

        Ron Paul’s solutions can be implemented if the congress votes for positive legislation. His solutions can be implemented in some cases through justified executive authority, such as bringing the troops home. His solutions can be implemented by following the constitution.

        Frankly, if you don’t like Ron Paul’s solutions, what you are really telling the world is that you don’t like the constitution. And if you are in favor of what we have, and where it is we are headed, perhaps you should take up residence in Russia, China, or North Korea. It doesn’t take a dictator to follow the constitution. It takes a dictator to ignore it.

        And Ron Paul can’t endorse anyone else because they all support policies that are destructive to our nation. You want him to “cooperate”? You want him to support the policies that are destroying the future for my grandchildren who haven’t yet been born?

        Maybe you should cooperate with my policy of you jumping off a bridge. It doesn’t matter if my policy might be destructive, particularly for you. If nothing else, it will get the multiplier going, because your death will provide work for the boat crew that pulls your body out of the river, work for the police who have to investigate your death, work for the coroner who has to cut you up, work for the mortician, work for the grave digger, work for the company that makes the machine for digging the grave, work for the limo company that supplies the herse, work for the driver who transports the coffin, work for the coffin maker, work for the lumber yard that supplies the wood, work for the brass makers and miners, work for the metal craftsman, work for the manufacturers of the tools, work for the auto manufacturer who makes the car, work for the paint company that supplies the auto paint, etc., etc., etc.

        So you see, it will be a great benefit to the economy.

        Too bad that uncooperative Republican butthole keeps objecting and saying, “… but Aniko would be dead!”

        Don’t be an idiot. There are far too many people like you who let their opinions get in the way of their common sense.

        • Sirian

          What got in his way of “common sense”? Really, common sense has been on the “endangered species” list for well over thirty years. His train of thought is a prime example thereof.

        • John Lilleburns ghost

          What a unpleasant, boring, pompous hypocritical windbag you are Alex. You are truly representative of the causes you espouse. Last week you criticized my post for its styilization yet you defend poor grammar on another day. Then as per your usual M.O. you tell someone they are a moron and they should kill themselves. Writing your copiously wordy e-mails doen’t make you right, indeed it usually reveals your poor understanding of basic logical thought. As for all the abuse and hatred it merely illustrates that despite your frequent biblical platitudes you have not ever understood a word that was written in your New Testament. However I consider being told I am wrong and should take cyanide by such a loathesome individual as proof positive that my opinions are correct. PS your ability to quote cereal box level investment strategy doesnt make you clever either.

          • Alex Frazier

            Actually, John, it was only you that I suggested should kill themself. With Aniko I was demonstrating that a destructive policy with dire consequences shouldn’t be pushed or cooperated with just because there are some who would judge it meritorious due to its positive effects.

            And for the record, I generally save the insulting words for people like you and similar who do not come on these threads to share their opinion, but who come on here to criticize other people and call THEM names.

            Jesus called the ruling authorities fools, hypocrites, blind guides, tombs full of dead bones, and serpents. In modern day terms relative to the Jewish culture of the time (which deemed dead bodies and serpents amongst the foulest of things), Jesus called them every four-letter word in our vocabulary. Jesus also told people that it was better for them to tie a millstone around their necks and cast themselves into the sea rather than harm a child.

            So I have no issue from a Christian perspective calling a spade a spade when they come in here and belligerently misguide people, especially when that misguidance will lead them to vote in a way that hurts ME. Nor do I have a problem telling someone like you (in fact, after reflection I recall that it was ONLY you I suggested this to) that they should kill themselves, since they are hurting the young.

            The truth hurts, so I expect that I would be unpleasant to the likes of you. I can’t help it if economics and politics is boring to you. Perhaps you should find a different forum platform that is more exciting. I don’t know what hypocrisy you might be referring to. You can say it, but it doesn’t mean it’s true, unless you have an example you can give (you actually proved that it was not so, since you said I was truly representative of the causes I espouse).

            I didn’t defend poor grammar. I criticized the needless criticizing of it. Someone’s point of view isn’t wrong because their spelling or punctuation is off.

            Wordy emails are necessary. Unlike some (read “you” in this instance), I don’t state that something is so without explanation. I provide proof or argument. As a result, no one that I’m aware of has been able to contradict me. Even you in this instance did not demonstrate anything I’ve said to be incorrect. All you’re doing is insulting me, and that’s very typical of a person who has run out of intelligent things to say.

            Please demonstrate my “poor understanding of basic logical thought.” I’m open to the dialogue if you have a legitimate gripe about my arguments.

            And please, do tell me about me “cereal box level investment strategy.” From where I’m sitting, I see that I’ve made a goodly sum in investments this year. If you have something to add to my strategies, which you don’t really know anything about, then I’m all ears. I’d be glad to make more than what I have already.

          • Alex Frazier

            John, I’ve gone back through my posts. Except for a brief mention about where gold should be, and that people heavily invested should be mindful of a plunge, I don’t see anything I’ve written about investment strategies.

            Did I miss it? Or was that just one of many baseless accusations on your part?

            Tell me again, if you would, what those strategies are. Which stocks am I invested in? Oh, and could you please advise me on why I chose puts and calls over shorts and longs? Why did I choose options over stocks again?

            I have some odor eaters if you need to get the taste of that foot out of your mouth.

          • Joe H.

            YOU speak of COPIUSLY WORDED POSTS??? I can’t figure who is worse, you or bobwire!!!

      • meteorlady

        A bit full your yourself I think. I don’t believe that you have a basic understanding of the trouble we are in as a nation.

        The DEBT is the 5000 elephant in the room that NO ONE WANT TO TALK ABOUT. So the CBO released some information awhile back…..

        If our federal government does not spend another cent on anything new, no new programs, no cabinet level positions, no more employees, nor more departments… and spending stays at the same level as today

        By 2021 we will be paying $1.4 trillion just to service the DEBT.
        By 2046 all we will be able to do is pay the interest, no more government, more services, no more anything.

        If we started today and paid $100 MILLION per day toward the debt it would take us 389 years to pay it off.

        Is that the legacy you want to leave for your children? As for a dictator, we have one right now in office. The congressional committee to cut $1.7 TRILLION? It’s unconstitutional as the House is the entity that makes the budget decisions.

        • moonbeam

          “As for a dictator, we have one right now in office.”

          Absolutely correct. He now rules by abusive executive order and fear mongering.

          • Old Henry


            The more things change, the more they stay the same.

      • MNIce

        Aniko wrote, “Ron Paul’s solution can be “implemented” only if we elect a dictator.” That is not necessarily so. We would need to elect a lot of honest people to Congress, but it could happen. As for Ron Paul in the White House, he would try to implement his policy by using his veto power if necessary. If Congress doesn’t like it, Congress can vote to override the veto.

        However, unlike the current occupant of the White House, I don’t expect Ron Paul would try to legislate by executive order if he can’t get his way with Congress. Mr. Obama’s abuse of executive orders is dictatorial.

      • jerry sweet

        try putting your very bias commas and periods and oh get a life blind my writing style is now a national problem.liberals not even good fish bait

      • DaveH

        Aniko corrects somebody else’s grammar and then says this — “Sentences within a phrase are delineated by comas”. What? Sentences within a phrase? That’s a new one.
        Try phrases within a sentence, Aniko.
        Do you think that by dragging down others, Aniko, you will somehow stand taller?

        • Jay

          LMAO!!! Good catch, Dave.

        • Old Henry

          Thanks Dave. I was kinda scratchin’ my head over that one. It’s gettin’ late and I have been staring at this thing for far too many hours…

        • JC

          Dave, Aniko is probably a Unionized half assed English teacher somehere…

      • Old Henry


        Why are you ragging on preston? It is not he who made the grammatical errors, it was his keebord. Simple as that.

  • Bruce

    Please watch this youtube feed this will explain it all quite well.
    I do understand that 50% of you “will not get it.”

    To those that do, THANK YOU for waking up.

  • Ronbo

    It went virtually unnoticed recently when the Federal Reserve gave $7,000,000,000,000 to their network of bankers and speculators around the globe. This was NOT the Bank Bailout by Bush and Obama; this was a new cashfest by the ultra-rich and major drain on the American dollar.

    It’s time the Fed Reserve be replaced with someone other than insiders and speculators. I have $0 in personal debt (own my house, cars and no debt) yet my government via the Federal Reserve, in one day charged me with $30,000 additional debt.

    • MNIce

      You missed the other $9 trillion dollars that went to bail out the Euro-zone. BTW, it probably did no good; the UK Express reports that France and Germany are discussing means of reducing the crash damage to themselves, including kicking a number of countries out of the Euro fiat currency system.

      The Fed exists first of all as an enabler of sovereign debt. That’s how central banks make their money.

      • Joe H.

        Kinda puts a whole new meaning to a world currency won’t work, when they plan to kick a few out, doesn’t it??

  • Larry Owens

    I agree, Our Enemies are our Government and the Career Politicians that keep kicking the can down the road since they are set for Life they do NOT care. And on to the present president in office he is NOT eligible to hold the office he is a Disgrace to the Office, he is a Lyier, you can tell when he is Lying any time he opens his Mouth. GOD help us if he get re-elected in 2012.

    • Whitey Lakeo

      If that happens time to look at another country or you will get sucked into the sespool

  • Henry Ledbetter

    ONLY THE TRUTH CAN SET US FREE. I keep hearing that no one knows the truth and yet God always does, as He also knows the thoughts and intents of the heart. We need to be spiritual enough to try the Spirit whether it be of God are not. We could also ask God to judge as He did in Acts chapter five.

  • Gale

    God says to trust No man. That means you can’t even totally
    trust yourself. Fight for right against wrong. Four things that
    are allowing the destruction of America.
    Throwing God out of schools.
    Allowing abortion.
    Ending the draft.
    Illegal immagration.
    I spent 9 yrs. in the Marine Corps and got out because I no longer
    wanted to serve the people of this country and now they are the
    one’s leading and what a Mess we have. College edumacated stupidity.
    I could go on but. Talk is cheap, takes Jesus to buy your freedom
    and the devil is knocking on your door. May God Bless.

    • Joe H.

      when I separated from the service, I got out with a sergent first class that had 19 years in. I asked him why? Why get out when you only have one year to go before retirement? He said,”anytime a PFC can tell me to go f@#$ myself and get away with it, I don’t belong in this mans army anymore!! The progressives had started infiltrating the service clear back in 1974!!! It’s gotten worse since then and only gonna get worse!!

  • Raggs

    The FED is half of the problem and the WH is the other half.
    Congress just sits back and rakes in money off of the table.

    • texastwin827

      You should say “the WH AND the Congress” are the other half. A President can not pass laws…Congress does that. That’s why they have veto power, over the President, should refuse to sign a bill that they have passed.

      The problem lies in the fact that Congress doesn’t have a spine. They would rather point fingers at each other and say “they won’t play right” than actually do what the people elect them to do. 2012 should be the year we vote out all the “do nothing” politicians…if for no other reason than to send them ALL a message. Unfortunately, too many Americans vote for the party instead of the person, so we keep getting the same trash that we don’t really want.

      • s c

        texastwin827, some of America’s WORST liars are the ones who give us ‘candidates’ who offer us a path to self-destruction via path A or path B. That is, you can vote for this worthless, puppet SOB, or you can vote for that worthless, puppet SOB.
        It is NOT a choice. It’s nothing less than trying to vote for the lesser of two evils, and that ALWAYS nets us evil. The ‘love affair’ of a two party system can’t work, and our current economic and political mess proves it.
        “Trusting” that someone is worth keeping in Washington is the final insult. All that gets us is another career politician who a) gets rich b) has job security via stupid voters and c) proves that America is a land full of manipulated sheep.
        Our main purpose as Americans is to 1) let the problem continue or 2) SOLVE the problem.

        • Joe H.

          I still say the exception to that is Ron Paul!!!

      • Zack

        Texastwin you are right in that Congress is supposed to make the laws of the land. However, this usurper in the WH is bypassing Congress by issueing his Executive Orders. Congress is too cowed by him to challenge his authority to do so. While it isn’t illegal for the President to issue SOME types of Executive Orders, he has issued some that clearly are not within his power to do so. What he cannot do legally he will do by fiat. We must be rid of him in 2012, otherwise we are doomed as a Constitutional Republic. It will take us years, if not generations, to overcome the damage he and his accolytes have already caused.

        • eddie47d

          It all seems to come back to Congress not doing their job. Almost no one in our Congress brings up the Federal Reserves or corrects the problems of the last decades. Whether true financial reform or special favors. They are protecting themselves and are afraid to upset or take on their donors. They are deathly afraid to take the crony out of capitalism.

          • Alex Frazier

            That’s not entirely true. There are a number of members of congress who are fighting against the Fed. The Senators and Representatives from my state are fighting it.

            And it’s worth noting that the reason congress isn’t getting anything done is that there are two completely opposite points of view that are so incompatible with each other that there is no reasonable way to compromise from either side without giving up the integrity of what they believe to be the correct solution for the country’s woes.

            So don’t be too harsh on congress. The reason they haven’t reached a solution is that they are all fighting the good fight on our behalf.

          • Joe H.

            Please don’t say they ALL are fighting the good fight for us!! They ALL aren’t!! A limited few are fighting for US the rest are fighting for party and their pockets!!

          • Alex Frazier

            No, I do not mean to say that they are ALL fighting the good fight for our sakes. But I would be willing to bet that there are more of them fighting on our behalf than most people realize. I think the problem is more principle than party.

            That’s my opinion, anyway. None of us has any way to know for sure without being present.

          • JC

            Alex, I think there would be more of them fighting the good fight but that they are under duress from the bankers. Think “grassy knoll”.
            End the Fed.

  • peter

    It is quite true that if people were not so easily fooled, then Obama would’nt be President and that is a very simple matter to equate compared to what the Fed’s are doing. Greenspan, Bernanke and all the rest are counting on our stupidity and we deserve their disdain – they have us behind the eight ball now and soon we will all be their slaves, if not already. It is sad when thieves get away with it, but these days it is a normal trend, in fact thieving from the people has become a profession and is graded in colleges now as: Doctorate in malpractice.Most leaders have graduated with honours in this faculty.

  • Naomi

    Sadly I am not completely debt free. However, I am not a dead beat. I pay my bills on time and have a decent credit score. I have noticed 2 things in my personal life that demonstrate to me that inflation is here, and likely here to stay for a while. At this time last year, I received a letter from a CC company stating that due to blah, blah, my credit was being reduced to the amount of my current balance. No offers to raise balances were received. This month alone I have had offers to raise my credit limit on all of my cards. Some by substantial amounts. And offers for new ones. I had some old catalogs from last year. Comparing prices on exact items this year, I found they have all gone up. Some have doubled!

  • Thomas Harvey


  • DaveH

    You forgot one important thing inflation does, Bob. Inflation pushes people into higher tax brackets in the Income Tax system so that the Government gets to confiscate a higher percentage of their money.

  • DaveH

    Speaking of Liars, Here’s a good one:
    China’s crime in Obama’s (and millions of other ignorant peoples’) mind? They are keeping their currency artificially low. That means we can purchase their goods cheaply. That’s a problem? So, if your neighbor came over and offered to sell you his car at half of market value, you would complain?
    If China wants to provide us slave labor, who are we to turn up our noses? We should be grateful, but instead Liberal Leaders, who really are just misleading the people, propagandize the masses to think China is doing us harm. Well, they are harming us in the sense that they are shining a spotlight on our lazy and very spoiled politically connected elite.

    • bob wire

      “If China wants to provide us slave labor, who are we to turn up our noses? We should be grateful,”

      So~ are you saying that sweat shops and a whole host of side issues associated with undercutting markets is okay as long as we (Americans) are seen as a clear immediate benefactor?

      I left to side up front with the liberals you speak of David. I’d admit in the short term that might work well but these inequities would only create larger problems to address later. Rising water levels all boats.

      We know there is NO Free Lunch. ~ It’s pay we now or pay me later, but you will pay me. Bringing us to where we find ourselves today.

      The bag man has funneled off his quick “gains” and ran off, leaving the rest of the world to clean up his mess.

      Every time you buy something under market and horde your gains you affect the system. The trickle down quits trickling.

      One person will not make any significant difference, rich or poor but if everyone did this, the system would slowly roll to a stop.

      • DaveH

        I usually read your comments to the point where you say something so ridiculous that I can no longer stomach reading the rest of your obtuse BS.
        In this case it was your feigned concern for the Chinese Laborers in the “sweat shops”. Have you asked them, Bob? Does it occur to you that they might rather work in a “sweat shop” than to starve? It is none of your business what Chinese laborers choose to do for their livings.

        • eddie47d

          Why do you say Bobwire is ridiculous when the Republican candidates (at least 6) also want to get tough on China. You need to recognize their BS also since they may be in that seat of power.

          • DaveH

            do I really need to respond to your inane statement?

          • JeffH

            Well eddie, all of your “feigned” understanding had to come to an end at some point…I guess this was it.

            Why is China even in a position to sell us “cheap goods”? The core of the reality is that our government actually put them in that position! Someday the United States may look back and realize how incredibly stupid it was to build up communist China at the expense of our own economy.

            Over the past several decades, hundreds of factories and manufacturing facilities that would have been constructed in the United States, along with millions of decent paying jobs, have ended up going to China instead where labor is so much cheaper. In the process, China has become a massive economic powerhouse, while once thriving manufacturing cities in the United States such as Detroit are now rusted-out corpses.

            So now the U.S. economy, with its high wages and repressive government regulations, is suffering while China’s economy is thriving.

          • DaveH

            That Economic Powerhouse, Jeff, has a $5.9 Trillion GDP compared to a GDP of $14.7 Trillion for the United States. And they have 1.3 billion people compared to .32 billion people in the US. So they have a GDP that is 1/3 of ours with a population size that is 4 times ours. I’d say they have a ways to go before they catch up.
            Of course, they are improving while we are going in the opposite direction, so if we don’t get our heads out, they may indeed catch up some day.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, from what I have read recently, many “so called” exoerts are starting to raise a warning sign that China’s economy, particularly the escalating property values will eventually go the way of our housing debacle. Should that happen, who’s going to pay those debts? Who’s going to bailout the banks, the lenders?

            Since the Chinese regime implemented a series of “tightening” policies to curb the real estate market, home prices have been falling across China. Meanwhile, land sales–the main source of local governments’ revenues–have also dropped sharply.

          • eddie47d

            It also didn’t take long for the name calling to come out Dave (inane). For someone who will only vote for Ron Paul you seem to be defending those other Republican candidate.Paul and Huntsman are the only two who understand what to do about the China issue.The others are only pestering for votes. I don’t want to blame Nixon for China’s rise to power because it did slow down communism but it also gave us a fierce competitor. No President since has figured out how to tame that country.

          • DaveH

            That’s not name-calling, Eddie. It’s just a fact.
            Since when must I call out all the other Candidates, Eddie? That’s your goofy take on things, not mine.

          • Joe H.

            not being a smartazz here, but I want you to explain something for me. What good do all the cheap goods imported from all over the world do a US citizen if they are unemployed and can’t buy said goods? If jobs keep leaving the Us at the rate they are, this will be a very pertinent question.

          • DaveH

            There are not a fixed number of jobs. The number of jobs in the economy depend entirely on the ingenuity of the American people.
            If we spend less of our money on products from China, then we have more left over to spend here on other American made products and services.
            If we protect our manufacturers from Chinese competition, then they will protect their manufacturers and then their people will spend less money on the products that our manufacturers create and export.
            As I’ve said many times, the first thing countries do when engaging an enemy is to embargo their trade. Why would they do that if Free Trade was a bad thing? Think.

            If we can’t compete with the Chinese on any level, then I’d say that speaks pretty poorly of us as a people.

        • bob wire

          I usually read your comments to the point where you say something so ridiculous that I can no longer stomach reading the rest of your obtuse BS.”

          Well Thank you Dave, and I read yours to get a glimpse of the kind of world you might wish to make for everyone and yourself.

          I can’t say that it would actually change much other then who’s doing the extortion and stealing. Sometimes is sound inviting but you fail to include the human fact in your new world, leaving out the names and faces of the new bandits that replaces the old ones.

          Freedom is having nothing to lose. I don’t think that you want to be free. I know I don’t, not at the moment anyway. I have too much going on and the finish line is yet in sight.

          Yes ! we could make government smaller and allow organized crime to fill in all the low spots. Where you are paying taxes or a crime boss to remain open for business, makes little difference, tell me, which you prefer?

          Of course I embellish(some) to make a point, we could make government smaller but at what point does it become self defeating and counterproductive?

          I say government is corrupt, you say less government, less corruption, problem solved! I say No! you didn’t address the problem but went around it. While leaves these criminals still in business but outside the halls of government. Now they are just Lobbyist!

          In my own obtuse way, I’m looking for some balance, balance that you fail to show much interest it in , it seems.

          This pie in the sky notion that the Libertarian offer the only solution to today’s problems is in itself obtuse and short sided thinking.

          We have an openly corrupt system of government that is sympathetic to any business interest or concern that can pony up the loot and very few others. Libertarian, republican democrat makes little difference. They will say what must be said to gain a position and once in, try to keep it, anyway possible.

          Neither has the desire, the balls or power to ferret out fraud or conflict of interest. Who is going to attempt to beat themselves up? Look what happen to Teddy Kennedy or John. You believe that’s coincidental? You believe that a nickle and dimer strip club owner like Ruby was just so overwhelmed with grief that he had to lay Oswald out in front of God and everybody before he could sing?

          So until some Candidate comes forward and singles these things out with the power behind him to address them,we are left to pick the brightest less guilt of the bunch that shows some interest in defending the host from all the parasites.

          I don’t approve of sweat shops and huge inequities and great unbalances. They are not sustainable but of course what is?

          There is no “WIN” to be had in this game for the American people, but only hopes of cut our loses. To think otherwise is to be Obtuse.

      • Alex Frazier

        @bob wire

        There’s nothing wrong with sweat shops if the workers are willing to tolerate the conditions. Fighting them just puts people out of work.

        Now … the only rising water we have is prices. Putting a tariff on Chinese goods does us no benefit whatsoever. If the Chinese are suffering, it is up to them to correct the problem. I’m just a consumer of the goods they sell. And I’m more than happy to pay $5.00 for a set of flatware than to pay $20.00 for Made in the U.S.A. versions of the same product. I sure as hell don’t want to pay $20.00 for the Chinese version because some ignorant politician decided that it was needful to put a $15.00 tariff on the imported flatware to equalize the trade. All they’re really doing is robbing me of a book and a lunch at McDonald’s, which is what I might have spent the other $15.00 on if they hadn’t stolen it from me to allegedly save jobs.

        And there’s really no such thing as hoarding. Although … a funny thought:

        The idea of inflation is to put idle funds to work by devaluing the “hoarded” wealth of the wicked thrift. If a man has $5.00 and could buy a meal at McDonald’s, but saves the money instead, when he finally decides to go buy that McDonald’s lunch ten years later, he finds that it costs him $7.50. Through inflation, the government managed to steal $2.50 of his $5.00 and put it to work right under his nose.

        It can therefore be seen that at least one of the purposes of inflation is to prevent hoarding through the act of devaluation.

        Yet, as a result of rampant inflation, a strange phenominon occurs. People start putting their cash money into gold and silver, which the government has no real power to devalue, unless the alchemist has finally discovered the secret to producing gold from nothing. And it is a well known fact amongst investors that gold, under normal circumstances, is not a good “investment” medium, because it doesn’t really grow. It takes inflation for the value of gold to do anything of significance. In other words, when you put your money in gold, all you are doing is storing your wealth.
        But the more money printing the government causes, the greater the inflation rises, the more people put their money into gold.
        In which case, inflation, designed to take idle funds and put them to work to counteract the hoarding of the wicked thrift, actually inspires people to protect their money by dumping it into gold, and then it is hoarded in truth, since gold is no longer used as a currency.

        So heavy inflation is actually producing the very thing it is trying to prevent.

        How’s that for irony?

        • Alex Frazier

          Excuse me, it’s phenomenon, not phenominon. I thought it looked wrong.

        • Sirian

          Ironic, yes. But be it ironic or not, at present, gold and silver are much more secure “tangible assets” than IRA’s, Mutual Funds, 401-K’s etc. Hoarding, perhaps, but has it not occurred time after time? Perhaps I be a temporary financial fool, but I most certainly will be more at ease when everything comes crashing down and a “Federal Reserve Note” will assume a new occupation – toilet paper.

          • Alex Frazier

            You misunderstand me. I don’t mean to complain about hoarding. In my opinion, money is nothing. It is only the good or service that truly matters. The economy is organic, not circular.

            I only mean to point out the irony that deliberate inflation, which is in part designed to circumvent hoarding, has actually led to the hoarding they were trying to prevent, and in a much more potent way.

          • bob wire

            Hording on a commercial wholesale level hurts everyone. While some hording is always good. Several billion not being used or leverage is a waste and almost criminal.

            Buying stolen good from a pawn shop hurts everyone.

            Buying products made by sweat shops hurts everyone.

            Imbalance trade practices hurts everyone.

            Fraud,theft,embellishing,cheating hurts everyone.

            But then a great day for the snake is a bad day for the frog.

          • Cawmun Cents

            You cant expect those who have”sold their souls to the company store” to understand logic.
            That goes for those here in the U.S.A.,and for those in China.-CC.

        • Joe H.

          alex Frazier, here’s the fly in the ointment in your post, so to speak. Take Milwaukee tools. The Chinese bought them out, lock, stock, and barrel. They moved ALL operations to the mainland, to a 1 million sq. foot facility. Now, these tools are going to be made at one fifth the cost they were in the US,shipped here under the milwaukee tool name, and sold at the same price they were when made here in the US!! Check out the prices of the tools in your local hardware or lumberyard. Didn’t change a bit!!!

          • Alex Frazier

            If they’re being manufactured at a fifth of the cost and being sold at the same price, assuming there’s no tariff or other government control, then that’s definitely a problem.

            I would say, under that specific type of circumstance, that a boycott is in order.

          • DaveH

            If the Chinese can manufacture the same quality of goods, then ship them all the way across the Pacific Ocean, and all at 1/5 the cost, I would say that was a pretty damning indictment of our very spoiled country.
            I also want to know how people can fret over the cost of such things as the cost of tools when Government is taking 40% of our GDP. That is .4*$14.7 Trillion or $5.9 Trillion each year. Considering that we have about 320 million people, that equates to $18,400 for each and every man, woman, and child in this country, or about $57,000 for each average family in the country — EVERY YEAR.
            Also, consider the fact that Hong Kong and Singapore get along with less than half of those expenditures on Government, and their economies are robust.
            It’s time to wake up, people.

          • DaveH

            Protectionism, which can only be instituted after convincing people that buying cheaper goods is hazardous to their well-being, was a major causal factor of the Great Depression. Please read this and do some thinking before you allow yourself to jump on the Protectionist Wagon:

            We need all the clear thinkers we can get to stop the runaway Big Government Train that is going to destroy our country.

      • meteorlady

        So when I worked during the summer picking fruit that was slave labor? I wanted to and I saved 3/4 of the money I earned for college. Now you can’t hire kids to work because our laws won’t allow it. If I had a choice of working or not eating I would work.

        I own a business, the IRS and the government will not allow me to hire my children even though they want to earn extra money. Seems their age affects whether they want to do something or not according to our government.

        • Joe H.

          I too, have those memories. I picked apples, peaches and pears. Then I also worked in the feilds with the Mexicans picking tomatoes and asparagus!! The parents today give their kids too much!!

        • DaveH

          Are you talking about State law, Lady? According to this webpage, you can employ your children except in certain occupations:

          Of course, it really is none of Government’s business if your kids want to work. In a Libertarian society we wouldn’t have that problem.

  • bob wire

    I’m left to assume I’m unlike these people Mr. Livingston refers to. I read the sea in front of me and have a grasp of my markets and what might I expect, setting speed and direction accordingly. If I have to tie off and wait out a blow of angry skies and uncertainly, I look forward to it as I’ve other things I enjoy.

    For anyone that runs at speeds that exceeded the reach of their own head lamps, optioning to use “others” as some kind of long range advance radar void any bias adjustment knob, such unfavorable outcomes unavoidable.

    What is the motives behind such behavior? This need for speed? There is an element missing that I fail to understand. Where and when has business prudence been replaced with some man you really don’t know claiming he has a crystal ball?

    I just don’t get it. Is it the lust for money and power? Greed?

    Today, We live in financial predatory times where not only button pushing computer hacks are scratching at the locked door, but banks and local governments are doing everything they can to be “invited in” and entangle you with fees and compliance with treats of contempt or default. They tangle you in a web of illusion and deceit.

    Why trust people that is not necessary to trust?

  • Lawrence Ekdahl

    Most of those working in government, elected or beaurocrat,are actively and knowingly working to destroy the greatest nation ever.

    • bob wire

      While surfing the net last night, I ran across a small clip where Congresspersons were privileged to insider trading information, that it was commonplace and often.

      I’ve always suspected it but I’ll not allow my bias to supersede reasoning and hope to hear and understand more about this.

      I see three things tearing us apart today, “fraud” , “serious conflict of interest” ~~ and ~~ ugh ~ hmmm? mmmmm? ~ I’ll think of it in a minute.

      To think just how strong Texas could be today if we had solid leadership is most upsetting.

    • DaveH

      I doubt that they are purposely destroying our country, Lawrence. People in general are great rationalizers when it comes to feathering their own nests. And the position of Politician comes with copious quantities of feathers. So, naturally the greatest rationalizers will strive for the positions that make up our Government. It is up to we the people to recognize that fact and keep them on a very short leash.
      Vote Libertarian.

    • John Lilleburns ghost

      Who says its the greatest nation ever? In a thousand years what will be remembered? I suspect very little, maybe the first use of an atomic weapon

      • Joe H.

        how about the first republic to last over 200 years? How about the most generous people of any nation in the world?

        • bob wire

          “San Marino is the oldest surviving sovereign state and constitutional republic in the world, as the continuation of the monastic community founded on 3 September 301, by stonecutter Marinus of Rab. Legend has it that Marinus left Rab, then the Roman colony of Arba, in 257 when the future emperor, Diocletian, issued a decree calling for the reconstruction of the city walls of Rimini, which had been destroyed by Liburnian pirates.[7]

          The constitution of San Marino, enacted in 1600, is the world’s oldest constitution still in effect.[8] The country’s economy mainly relies on finance, industry, services and tourism. It is one of the wealthiest countries in the world in terms of GDP (per capita), with a figure comparable to some of the more developed Italian regions, such as Lombardy and Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol. San Marino is considered to have a highly stable economy, with one of the lowest unemployment rates in Europe, no national debt and a budget surplus.[1]

  • 4-just_us

    Ron Paul to the rescue.

  • http://nowebsite Jim Mitchell

    I am an independent voter who often votes Libertarian and Green. I do not trust either the Democrats or the Republicans and would like to see Ron Paul nominated for President.

    I am usually more distrustful of Republicans than Democrats because Republicand USED to stand for most of the ideals that made our country great. And then – along came Bush !!!

    Here is one avenue to American Self-Destruct that remains almost unreported in the national media: The War on Drugs.

    This “War” is one of the root causes of America’s decline but is protected by Big Government even tho it is a complete failure and has caused severe economic strain as well as creating and maintaining foreign enemies (since it became an extension of foreign policy).

    So why hasn’t even one of the presidential candidates debated this (non) issue?????


    • DaveH

      I prefer Republicans over Democrats but I would rather have neither.
      However, Jim, the Republicans haven’t represented the Freedom that our Founders established since they came into existence in the 1850s. In fact, it was the Republican Party who trampled our Constitution and gave the South no other choice than to secede from this United States.

      • Monte

        You are exactly correct, DaveH. First with the Tariff of Abominations, then with the Morrill Tariff, they were determined to drain the wealth of the South to support and enrich certain connected Northern interests. Lincoln ran on a platform to raise the tariff. They didn’t care if they reduced the South to poverty; nor would they compromise. It was a system of greed and corruption without any moral justification. Since the Republican Party’s first president was the nation’s first dictator, the party can not abandon their statist goals without coming to terms with the myth of Honest Abe. I find it difficult to support the Republican Party. On the other hand, the Democratic Party is devoid of a single worthy purpose or goal; it is a party of pure evil. I would just as soon vote the Devil for president as vote for a Democrat.

        • DaveH

          It’s so nice to have some people on the board who have taken the time to educate themselves before commenting. Thanks, Monte.

        • bob wire

          “They didn’t care if they reduced the South to poverty; nor would they compromise. It was a system of greed and corruption without any moral justification.”

          Sounds like real nice folks! I can’t imagine why anyone would be opposite to that, not even the devil. It doesn’t sound as if they changed that much.

  • steve in AZ

    “1.Inflation makes the national debt more manageable because it can be repaid in cheaper dollars.”

    This MAY be true on a federal level. I have yet to receive a bill for my portion of the federal deficit, so I wouldn’t know. However, it is definitely NOT true in personal finances.

    Let’s assume the real inflation rate is 8%. (We can only guess at this amount as all info coming from DC is at best distorted, and at worst, a lie.) With the real unemployment rate approaching levels not seen since the great depression, how many Americans are receiving 8% annual wage increases?

    With an economy driven by consumers of retail goods – “I gotta have my Starbucks, quarter pounder, whatever” – as our incomes erode and the consumer debt increases, Americans become less and less able to maintain their standard of living. The true picture can be seen in the chart of gold prices over the last ten years. Turn the chart upside down and mirror it, and you have the perfect chart of America’s decreasing ability to repay it’s consumer debt, hence the ever increasing number of housing foreclosures and bankruptcies.

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of guys – namely the banksters. By the way, if the Fed can print money out of thin air so can our government – and there would be no interest payable on it. End the Fed? Print greenback dollars as we did in the Civil War. Walk away from the debt we owe the International Banking Cartel. NUKE the FED!!!

    DONATE NOW so you can VOTE RON PAUL 2012!!!

    • MNIce

      If all prices adjusted instantaneously to changes in the number of bank notes floating around, there would be no profit in inflation for anybody. Governments take advantage of the time lag in price adjustments to favor the first recipients of newly created currency. The first recipients can use their “free’ money to buy goods at the old price with the diluted money, so they actually underpay.

      Quite a few people have complained about the big banks sitting on the bailout money instead of lending it. They have actually done the country a big favor by keeping the funny money out of circulation. They aren’t stupid – if they participate in the market devaluation of the currency, their enormous debt holdings will be repaid with money that is not worth what they lent out before the bailouts.

  • Baldwin

    Self-sufficiency is the immediate goal we should have. Reliance upon the federal government is stupidity. A civil war seems to me to not be improbable without great changes. Ron Paul may not always have accurate foresight, but I believe he is the best choice! He does clearly define issues.

  • James T.

    Ron Paul may be the only president canadate now to perdict the house bubble but he is NOT the only canidate to warn us about it.Mc Cain did so I belive back around 2005 or Ealier.Anybody with an average I.Q. could have seen this coming at a decade or two in advance,Home prices were coming up to fast,and more so from1990=1995.The common man who uses his brain ,doesn’t need some one who went to collage for twenty years to tell him differant.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear James T.,

      The difference between McCain and Ron Paul is that Paul understood why there was a housing bubble and why it was about to burst. McCain voted for TARP and bailouts, indicating he either has no clue or is just a corporatist like all the rest. I suspect the latter.

      Best wishes,

    • JeffH

      James T., I’m just a simple average blue collar guy and I predicted the housing bubble would pop way back in the 90′s when home prices first started to skyrocket, even before the “unqualified easy home loans” debacle started. It was always a case simple mathematics to me.

      • eddie47d

        I’ll agree with Jeff on that one. All kinds of bells and whistles were going off!

  • http://www, John Hanna

    I have trouble believing that government people are all crooks too.
    There are so many of them.
    It’s really simple, the only money produced comes from hard work and is ‘created’ from productive labor – growing a melon that didn’t exist and now does, worth a buck, is production.
    Growing that melon is productive.
    Protecting it, educating it, talking about it, and chastising it are all expenses of variant worth.
    If there is no melon to sell no expenses can be paid.

    That is why the Russians, no one will argue that they are government top heavy?, honor the hammer and the cycle.

    You can’t get people to make melons when they are disrespected for all their hard work and tax collecting people get all the easy jobs at high pay and huge benefits.

    Next comes the property collections when the values rise due to inflation yet the incomes do not (for tax payers that have lived frugally and paid off their mortgages ) – government workers will get property tax exemptions because they are ‘so necessary’.

    Since we really do have too many people by fifty percent with government jobs the next few years will see the reductions but don’t worry – these millions of tax collectors will go into the internal army that will force the productive out into the melon fields and supervise the harvest.

    BUT! The melon growing is the heart of America. It is the entrepreneur and risk takers that have lent the competitive spirit that still smolders beneath the excessive levels of taxation and self serving expense.

    Good luck with that takeover stuff.

  • DavidL

    The rich in this country have been redistributing the wealth to their advantage through tax cuts, tax breaks and other loopholes. They have been paying for this by running up our debt. Now that the people are rising up against that behavior, Tea party and Wall Street Protesters, they are now attempting to pay for their tax cuts and wealth accumulation by selling off the Middle Class.

    Here’s one for the classical capitalists among us:

    “The rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.”
    Adam Smith, in The Wealth of Nations

    • DaveH

      Spoken like a green-eyed distributionist.
      We are all supposedly equal in the eyes of the law, therefore we should all pay equally for our Government regardless of our income. Ideally there would be user fees for those who chose to use Government services, but some services can not economically be paid by user fees, for instance National Defense. For those we would have to pay General taxes and, again, everybody should pay the same.
      Also, keep in mind that Government, by nature, is going to be less efficient than private businesses. Therefore, the productive thing to do is keep as much money in the private sector as possible. That means restricting Government to those things that just cannot be done in the private sector (not much).

    • Alex

      Thank you, DavidL, for the draft of sanity you just blew in through the PLD window!

      • DaveH

        Oh sure, doing the same things over and over again, hoping that this time the results will be different is sane. NOT.

      • Joe H.

        would you like to tell me why you should benefit from somebody elses hard work or from the proper decisions they have made??

  • FreedomFighter

    Obama is biggest LIAR, political prostitute in Washington DC:

    “It’s incredible that 42% of Americans think that this unqualified,
    incompetent, dishonorable, ego-driven fraud is doing a good job. Take a
    moment. Admit it to yourself. You know who his supporters are. They are
    the people that YOU support.

    From now thru November 2012 this should be required weekly or at least
    monthly reading BY ALL WHO VOTE!!!

    Did you notice who Obama threatened when he wasn’t getting his way on
    raising the debt ceiling? He threatened to not pay:

    - Social Security Retirees, Military Retirees, Social Security
    disability and Federal Retirees.-

    - Now..let this sink in really good -

    - He did not threaten to stop payments to illegal aliens

    - He did not threatened to take frivolous benefits such as Internet access away from violent inmates

    - He did not offer to fire some of the thousands of unnecessary federal employees that he hired

    - He did not offer to cut down on his or his wife’s frivolous
    gallivanting around

    - He did not threaten to not pay the senators and representatives or any of their staff

    - He did not threaten to take benefits away from welfare recipients

    - He did not threaten the food stamp programs

    - He did not threaten to not pay foreign aid

    - He did not threaten to cut back on anything that involves his base voters

    - The list could go on and on. He is in full political re-election mode!

    • Why are we allowing this person to destroy this wonderful country with his selfishness and his lies?

    • His type of change is killing our country. He needs to be stopped and only our votes can stop him.

    • Do not forget about his tactics when it’s election time. Vote Obama out of the Presidency in 2012.


    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • eddie47d

      The problem with your cut and paste comment is that neither side is “threatening” their constituents to do what is right. Nor does either side take on the Federal Reserves.How about reeling in the big problems with Hedge Fund Managers? How about finding someone willing to threaten those in the Derivative Markets? How about threatening those who created the false housing market? Why wasn’t Citizens United Supreme Court decision challenged? Yes both parties protect their base and the results are not kind to the average American.

      • FreedomFighter

        Ron Paul 2012

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • DaveH

        You’re such a dweeb.
        Eddie said “The problem with your [FreedomFighter's] cut and paste comment”. Prove that Freedom Fighter’s comment is cut and paste, Eddie.

        • FreedomFighter

          Its not a cut and past comment, its a copied email from Tom G., I felt it fit here well with the discussion of liars. In the future I will preface with this detail for Eddie, though the name at the end quote should of been enough.

          I dont believe it matters where it comes from, I gave credit to Tom G., hide nothing and sure am not trying to missdirect anyone about what im trying to say.

          Eddie said nothing, only thru a pile of dogs*&^ out to confuse and muddy, typical Lucy Leftest commi tactics.

          Laus Deo
          Semper Fi

          • DaveH

            I missed the Tom G, Fighter. Even if I had noticed it, I would have figured that you were signing off with your real name like a lot of posters do.

        • eddie47d

          My point Freedom Fighter was they weren’t your own thoughts. You had to download someone elses thinking and not necessarily your own.We now know what Tom thinks but could you have thought that out all by yourself without copying from other sources? I would say your list ,err Tom’s is only partially right but Dave says I’m a dweeb for saying so. In other words I should shut up and keep my personal opinion to my self. Dave should know better than that.

          • DaveH

            Methinks, Eddie, that it would be prudent for you to do the same (cut and paste other peoples’ comments) since your own are so lacking.

      • DaveH

        Name some derivatives and tell us what’s wrong with them?

        • JeffH

          Now DaveH, you know better than to ask that question! Isn’t it all about talking points, word association?

          • DaveH

            No doubt. That’s why I was trying to pin him down. I realize that it wouldn’t be hard for him to look it up, but at least I would be forcing him to do a little reading.
            I grow weary of people like Eddie who fling around terms that they know nothing about. Personally, I stay away from complicated investment strategies, but there is good purpose for most derivatives.

          • eddie47d

            Does Jeff really know the harm derivatives have done to the economy or is he just parroting Dave? Mark and Spencer Co (derivatives market)lost millions for some investors and are under criminal indictment. How about risk management derivatives or better known as catastrophe insurance where investors sometimes make millions off of natural and man made disasters. In other words betting on failure which actually ups the cost of rebuilding. I would call it a scam. How about that 7 Trillion in Bank of America derivatives (bets).Much of those losses were dumped on the FDIC (taxpayer). Derivatives are loose cannons where a few gain and many more fall into failure. When you think about it that is the way most of Capitalism works or is that crony capitalism also? Which you seem to be supporting although I would call them a den of thieves.

          • JeffH

            eddie, as usual you missed the party and speaking of parroting…Polly want a cracker? bbbaaarrraaakkk!

          • DaveH

            What do you know, Jeff, Eddie answered. But his answer was the usual generalization that tells me he can’t even look and find a simple example of a type of derivative. Eddie’s more hopeless than I thought.
            What is a derivative derived from, Eddie?
            I’ll ask again. Name me a type of derivative, Eddie?
            You have no clue, do you?

          • eddie47d

            Hell Jeff are you mad because you weren’t even invited to the party? You prove every time even when someones answers a question you go into one of you hissy name calling fits. You’re too busy defending the corruption on Wall street to even know what’s going on.

          • Joe H.

            Still collecting that union pension compliments of the wall street corruption?? Hypocrite!!!

          • DaveH

            Dang, Eddie, I gave you a major hint — “Name me a type of derivative, Eddie?” — and you still couldn’t figure it out. Enter “types of derivatives” into your search field, and you get this article in the list:
            Bookmark those, Eddie, so next time I ask you can answer. Of course, then I will still expose you if you haven’t done your homework and know how they benefit the economy. But then, maybe, you will get off your lazy butt and learn enough to give me a decent comment.

    • Joe H.

      you forgot, he DID threaten to hold up pay for the active duty personel that he sent to war zones!!

    • Melissa

      I know that 42 % of voters are not dumb enough to support Obama. That’s more government-controlled media propaganda. I would be surprised if the real number isn’t a single digit nu7mber. You know those “official” polls are rigged seven ways from sunday. Therefore we need to take them with a grain of salt. It’s better to talk to real people to find out how they feel. And unfortunately not all of America is represented because not all of American citizens who meet the requirements take the time and trouble to vote.

  • clarence swinney

    BOB on target. Firsr one to write it after my 100 times.

    Greenspan took a 6.5% interest rate to 1% for Bush.
    Increased Total Money supply by twice as much as in prior ten years.
    Removed M-3 Total Money Supply from Fed reports. Shame.

    Free $$.Plenty $$$. Big Banker pals come get it. They did.
    Created frenzy to build homes too large too expensive for middle class stagnated incomes.

    F&F Fault! Ha. Built homes $500,000 up.F&F linmit was $300,000
    So went to bundling and selling as securities. Bigger profits.
    Then, toxic awareness of the securities. Buying slowed.
    Bush increasd F&F max to $729,000 to help banks unload mortgages. F&F last resort for banks to unload toxics.Sell To F&F. Bubble burst. Banks and F&F stuck with toxic junk.

    Bob first I have read to say Greenspan fault.

  • csh

    Our form of government was not intended to be based on a socialist “collectivism”, but was designed to excel in “individualism”. That said, Our individual rights to “Pursue” happiness is not a right “TO” happiness…. there is the possibility of failure. But then the failure is an individual one as well, and doesn’t take everyone else down. That same individual can learn from his/ her mistakes and pursue again edging closer to his/ her goal.

    Our “REPUBLIC” recognizes our individual rights given to us by our creator/ God. Laws are only to be changed legislatively, through Congress. The REPUBLIC allows the people to control the limited government with structure, order, while respecting the individual.

    Democracy promotes the opposite, and in fact, is not even found ANYWHERE in our constitution. It has been ingrained into our political speech over the years though as a way to accept it. Don’t accept it…. While people may think it simply refers to freedom, it is being used to lead us astray from our intended structure and protection. It really means majority rule, or mob rule, over ruling the rights of others, and can lead to anarchy. The bloated government will use it to either control the masses by manipulating the 51% with propaganda, or use the excuse of anarchy to instill a police state, thereby controlling the people by force. .

    As an example, the OWS are organized by the likes of the Communist party and Union thugs, who work against the fabric of our constitution, and individual freedom. The leaders are using the masses to promote “their” agenda, not the welfare of the people. So unlike the Tea Party who really was a grassroots movement of the people, and refused to promote a leader, emphasizing again their individualism.

    The Tea Party marched, (did not camp) and held rallies at their “own” expense. They were a blessing to business and the community, not a hindrance. Their message was simply to let Washington know that the PEOPLE saw how the government had been slipping away from our base as a Republic, and that they wanted our government to honor that base, the constitution, our REPUBLIC, and the people, its creator. They were clean, tidy, respectful of the grounds, and paid their own way, helping the community and individual businesses.

    The communist led OWS protests however, have not helped but hurt, individual businesses. They are not beneficial to either the residents, the community, or the country. They camp out on public grounds making it undesirable to the public. They leave, as a reminder of their presence, trash, expense to others, violence, looting, and chaos. They do NOT represent the 99%…. They do represent however, a percentage of people who are willing to trade in their individual rights for “collective socialism” with disregard of others, and others rights in their pursuit of happiness.

    • http://personallibertydigest not fooled

      This is just a preview of a world without god.

      • Alex

        Where is God going?

        • Karolyn


        • TomP

          God’s presence leaves even His chosen people, when they think they can do without. Hell ensues.

          • Joe H.


      • Melissa

        I see change all around us. Maybe the old fuddy duddies have thrown in the towel but I’m seeing and hearing about our youth getting fired up for God and I’m encouraged by it. That is how a revival gets started. I think we’re seeing one starting up in our country.

    • DaveH
  • Alex

    Trust Senator Bernie Sanders.

  • BrotherPatriot

    Excellent, Mr. Livingston…just an excellent article.

    God Bless your efforts in the attempt to help educate us to some simple truths. More & more of us are waking up due to efforts such as yours & those on the site.

  • Capitalist at Birth

    As usual, the Paul loons are out in full force. He has no chance of obtaining the nomination of the Republican Party. When are you people going to accept that and find a suitable alternative?

    • Alex

      The only things Rep. Paul makes sense about is streamlining our mercenary military and getting the government out of our bedrooms and medicine chest—-his economic policies are a joke.

      • DaveH

        You’re a joke, Alex. Any ignorant Liberal can make sweeping generalizations.
        Try something new, pick a Ron Paul economic policy and tell me why it’s wrong.

      • JC

        Come on dave…you heard the man! Ron Paul’s economic policies are a joke! Well that’s good enough for me…I don’t need any explanation at all. I’ll just be very liberal nod my ignorant little head up and down and agree completely. After all, some dweeb on web site says its must be so.

        Well done Alex. You’ve proved once again how absolutely idiotic the avaerage Liberal moron really is. ;)

        • Joe H.

          On the mean pills again!! Keep it up!!!!

          • JC

            I’ll never cut these anti-Americans any slack Joe. I want them out!

    • DaveH

      Quit pushing your propaganda, Crony Capitalist from Birth.
      Anybody can see from the straw polls, that Ron Paul is indeed viable:,_2012

    • DaveH
    • DaveH

      Here’s a really revealing poll. Fox had this on their website for just a few days after the Iowa Republican Party Debates. Apparently the results weren’t what they wanted to see:

    • DaveH
  • http://na. Robert Bradfield

    Hi, it is that South African again.

    I have studied all the comments thus far and although theoretically correct there seems to be one fundamental mistake that everyone makes. Inflation is the price of money and only gives the perception of value. a long time ago someone described this principal as follows:

    Let’s say I produce wooden tables and someone else produces wooden chairs. As we want to increase our profit, which is not a swear word, we decide that we will exchange our product by mutual consent. For one table I would like to have six chairs and this is agreed on. After a while a second producer of chairs enter the “market” and comes to me and we agree by mutual consent the I will take six of his/her chairs for one table. When a third producer of chair enter the market and asks for the same deal as with the others, I decide that with the glut of chairs that every one must in future give me eight chairs for one table. What has changed? It is my perception of the value of chairs in exchange of tables – assuming that the quality of both the tables and chairs have not changed.

    If we take the above and project this on money, then we have a basic explanation of why an over supply of money increases prices, it is about people’s perception of the value of money and not the fact that there is money. Till today I use the above example to explain what inflation is and it seems that most people understand this explanation very well.

    If I have stated something that has already been said above I apologize but I thought that this will clarify some misunderstanding about inflation and the role of excess money in the system.

    Greetings to all.

    • DaveH

      Thanks, Robert.
      Or we could simply tell people that inflation (in the CPI) is the result of more money chasing the same amount of goods.

    • JC

      Robert I use a similar analogy to explain this to children but I use bicycles as my example. Guess what! The average 8 year old understands what 40 year old liberals can’t. ;)

      • DaveH

        At that age, they haven’t yet had their Propaganda Blinders super-glued on.

        • JC

          Exactly right. Their little brains haven’t been propogandized by the Dept. of Education and the Globalist Agendized Media.

  • Baba

    Beranke is full of it. We know that by now. Nothing ‘sneaks’ up on that man. If it does, he’s an idiot and does not know how to put his left foot in his left shoe… GOP is pulling for Romney so Obama can have another four years! “Someone” thinks he/she has nearly destroyed Cain’s chances but I’ve news for that whatever. No matter how much they smear Cain’s reputation, he is the only fit candidate to beat Obama. That in itself should give you some clue why the harassment charges and I’m sure there will be charges to come on Cain to destroy this viable candidate. GOP and the donkeys does not want such a straight-forward conservative in office. That would ruin their kick-backs and illegal operatons! Romney will be defeated by Obama and so will Newt. That’s all in the plan. Watch it unfold. There is so much more corruption in D.C. than meets the eye. Be a Wise Voter.

  • JeffH

    Do our politicians ever lie to justify war? Not all government lies are wrapped in layers of partial truth—some are simply lies, unvarnished by any cover of truth.

    • DaveH

      Thank you, Jeff. I bookmarked the site.

    • Joe H.

      while i don’t consider it a reason to invade Iraq, one of their “radio ads” states that Husein had no weapons of mass destruction. It is a well known fact that he had gas and gassed 12,000 khurds. I do not believe the reports that it was iran so please don’t try to convince me of that. not trying to make you or any of the sites you post look bad, as I have looked at about all of them you post and agree with the majority of them.

      • JeffH

        Joe H. don’t think for a moment I’d try to convince you of that. I know you’re smart enough to figure it out on your own. Not to worry.

  • JeffH
  • 45caliber

    Back in the early seventies, during the “fuel crisis” then, the government froze all pricing and wages. They sent an “expert” to address the conserns of the various business leaders.

    Several of the people at my company went to the meeting. There was quite a discussion about the freezing and what could be done about the losses some companies might expect. The speaker kept talking about how good the freeze would be.

    Finally one of the people there wanted to know why, if it was as good as it seemed, that the government didn’t simply keep the freeze in place from now on. After all, promotions didn’t affect wages – if you were promoted, you could get a wage increase. If the company was losing money, the government would allow a minor price change so they wouldn’t. Profits would be maintained.

    After a lot of hemming and hawwing, the speaker finally said, “The government can’t afford to NOT have inflation. Inflation of wages increased taxes without the people noticing it. That allowed the government more money they couldn’t get if all the wages and prices were frozen. So it was necessary TO THE GOVERNMENT to go back to inflationary ways as soon as possible.

    • DaveH

      That is just one problem with Government price controls. There are many more, such as the misallocation of funds which result when pricing signals are absent. Generally speaking, Government does nothing but mess up the efficiency of the Marketplace when they start meddling.

    • Joe H.

      The only place they should have kept the wage freeze and spending freeze in place on permantly is the GOVERNMENT!!!

      • professor

        Joe, you couldn’t be more correct about that..

  • Mad Max

    We will prevail? I’m not afraid anymore!

    The Revolution has started -
    Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( )


  • Thinking About

    Lots of the failure of banking industry to regulate their industry. The repeal of Glass-Stegall with Gramm-Leach-Bliley allowed this. Phil Gramm stated many time “if we just deregulated them everything will be fine” but the economic professor was wrong. Failures of industries to regulate their own brings about regulations they hate. How much gas it helped to blame Obama for everything? It used to be Pelosi and now Boehner is speaker you don’t see his name very often. If you think thevproblems are going to be fixed by Ron Paul you are sadly mistaken. It won’t happen. Perhaps the occupy movement will do more to place pressure than anything, it is the top 1% who is buying off enough in the lower 90% to mess the economy up. Rick Perry’s idol Gramm was wrong, you have to have rules to keep their feet to the fire.

    • DaveH

      Read the book “The Big Ripoff: How Big Business and Big Government Steal Your Money”, and get a clue:

    • DaveH

      There are two kinds of rules, TA, Laws (passed by elected Officials), and regulations (passed by unelected Bureaucrats). The first category generally punishes those who actually commit a crime. The second category punishes everybody, whether they are honest or not, kind of like when the teacher makes everybody stay after class because one student misbehaved.

      • Thinking About

        And your point is…….. Every bill passed is not for the best reason or necessary good nor repealing a proven bill is the answer either.

  • Karolyn

    Just in – The latest ABC poll has Cain slipping. They also showed part of an interview in which he could not comment on Obama’s handling of Libya, like he couldn’t place Libya in the scheme of things, stuttering and staring; and flubbed several other questions like he really didn’t even know what the interviewer was talking about. It does not seem like this guy is very well versed in international affairs! He’s goin’ down!

    • denniso

      I hate to see a man who worked his way up from nothing have all this trouble,but it’s clear that being a pizza CEO and the head of a restaurant association doesn’t prepare one well for the big leagues.

      He likely is a serial sexual harrasser as well.

      • JC

        And Denniso proves that media brain washing really does work. ;)

        • Joe H.

          As much as i don’t like cain, denniso seems to have forgotten the basic tennent of our judicial system. Innocent till PROVEN guilty!!!

          • JeffH

            Joe H, could add that being a radical Marxist community organizer obviously didn’t prepare the O’man for the job either.

          • professor

            No one is “innocent until proven guilty.” That is why they arrest people and put them in jail…before they go to trial.

            Those they let walk around, it is not because they think they are innocent.,,, The judicial system is just as corrupt as Washington.

          • JC

            Joe, I don’t like Cain either. But Media Cruxifiction is about as repulsive it gets and it only works because simple celled invertebrates buy into it.

    • professor

      I saw that Karolyn and amazingly enough, we agree about Cain. He could not even process one thought about what was going on in Libya…it was almost as if he had never heard of the country.

      Cain has always been able to B.S. his way through the debates and interviews, by saying a little bit of “nothing” and repeating “slogans.” He really has no idea what is going on. He won’t do any homework to bring himself up to speed because he never has needed to do that. All he has had to do is be able to spread the “bull.” I have been around a lot of people that are affable, but lazy. They are promoted by the “Peter principle.”

      And, let me say that it doesn’t take much “snap” to look like a genius in the restaurant business…As far as the administrators, Cain filled a quota, wasn’t smart enough to cause problems, and did what he was told. I doubt much more was asked of him. He certainly isn’t a “take charge” dynamo..(until it came to the blonds.)

      Cain has been trying to get elected for some kind of public office, for years, but has been unsuccessful. But, he saw obama get elected, and thought it would be easy. He saw that obama wasn’t qualified, so why did he need to have any qualifications. Being black was enough, for obama and since he was even blacker…

      • bob wire

        Not for one second was I fooled by Cain. A joke from the offset. That some were , need to have their head examined.

        • denniso

          Being black was not ‘enough’ for Obama to get elected. We’ve had a handful of other black candidates who didn’t get elected. Obama is an attorney trained in constitutional law and waselected to the senate before getting elected Prez. He also is one of the most articulate leaders we’ve had and very smart as well. After 8 yrs of one of the dumbest presidents ever the country was ready for someone w/ brains. The black vote counts for something like 10% in an election…the fundamentalist wacko vote is about 30%,so who has the edge?

  • James T.

    I think your wrong bout Mcain, At least he would’ve been better than Obama.I’M still going to vote for “CURLY”!!!!!!!!

  • James T.

    PS I wonder how masny people there is out there who wised they Hadn”t vote for Obama?

    • bob wire

      maybe a few Wall Street bankers.

      • denniso

        Obama’s not perfect,no one is,but the crop of Repub candidates sure make him look good. It’s always a choice between the better of the two candidates,and Obama was ans is clearly the better.

  • William Bolton

    I find it hard to believe that you are saying “if the unthinkable was to happen”. It is happening and right now! In October the government gave away the largest copper reserve in the world in an exchange for land with no mineral value! Great trade wasn’t it? All the processing and manufacturing jobs have gone overseas! The only jobs here are hauling the loot away. They are looting America and the people don’t even know it! These things are the work of our elected representatives and we aren’t benefiting, the world elite super rich are along with the stock packages for our reps. We got less tan $2 an acre for our reserves of gold, silver and copper! Oh, but we get to haul the loot away to our shores to send to other nations while we don’t really need jobs or industry. It is CRIMINAL, but what can you expect when we have a felon in charge of the BATFE and his buddy is president!

  • Polski

    You’re all concentrating on the trees instead of the forest.

    The only ones that can change anything are the ones with the money and the power. But they won’t change anything. They’re happy with things the way they are. They’re getting even more money and power.

    If we’re lucky, Occupy Wall Street will be long term and find the technique to correct the situation.

    • professor


      If you think our “saviors” are the OWS derelicts, this country is in worse shape than I believed….

      • bob wire

        There is NO Savior Professor.

        There is a process of defining the issues that require address before you might hope to focus on them.

        DaveH would tell us they are Big Government and the Federal reserve.

        What many of you wish to label Flea bags and Class Warfare is defining the issue. They are Fraud and corruption in high places and Conflict of Interest. Things that the Tea party somehow elected to ignore.

    • JC

      The ones with the money and the power are the owners of the Federal Reserve. Last I checked the OWS morons were stuck on a “tax the rich” mantra. What a bunch of short sighted anti-American Morons.
      End the Fed!

      • DaveH

        Let’s treat the disease, not the symptoms. It all goes back to Big Government. Without them, there would have never been a Federal Reserve Act.

        • JC

          Amen That!

  • William Bolton

    Where is the article entitled “Run, run for your lives!” If they get their way and disarm the nation we will be saying goodbye to the dream that was the United States of America. They did it for greed! There is no honor in the people making up our government or someone would have raised the cry before now. I am ashamed to say that I thought some of them were interested in the plight of the people but what Jefferson warned against has already happened. They look down their noses at us and say we are not fit to govern ourselves and they may be right because the people have been asleep at the switch. I have been trying to raise the cry of looting for years now and everyone was talking about any number of distractions set before them. Well, we have been looted and our huge riches are gone now. So what are we going to do now?

  • William Bolton

    Occupy is just another distraction to keep people focused on anything except what is really going on. While the occupy goes on we are being looted of the only hope we could have had of ever paying the debt off. We are playing run about while they are saddling us with tons and tons of huge debt and it is like a slick used car deal. There is no on our side in this with the Washington elite. None of them are poor and none of them will want. No one on either side of the aisle want’s any change, they only want to talk about it so we are distracted while they loot us into an ever deeper hole! Too big to fail means they will watch out for each other and pay them out and put the debt on the occupy party group and the rest of the people. Just getting you news coverage does not bring change and it may be too late now.

  • James T.

    IfPeople wouldn”t relie on the Goverment so much.there won”t be this problem in the frist place.I have found ,doing business with a credit union is much better than a Bank.But of course you have to have some good credit ratings,I think my is around 815 to 825 the last time i Checked.Alot of people i feel don’t know how to handle their money very good,And get pissed off at the Goverment when they themslf are to blame.You never over extend your self ,And stay the hell away from Credit Cards. When you get somthing Paidoff keep it as long as you can.Always keep some money(gold or silver) for a rainy day.Simple Common snse is all it takes.But I disagree with anyone who says FDR wasn’t a good President.And I don’t like anyone who lowers themselfs to name calling.I’ve heared the Pros And Cons on this topic a million times,But i will say this, That Great President help out a lot of people in need. And some people that are living now don’t really understand how awful,and bad it was. But iI do agree with the fact that some of these programs should have been ended or greatly reduced.This is my Opinion and its a free country ,(At least it still was the ,last time I checkED) So if you don”t like my views,Thats fine ,I may not like yours.Just no more name calling.

    • James

      James T., FDR and his administration carried out a 9 step plan to provoke Japan into attacking the United States. This has been documented in “Day of Deceit – the truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor” by Robert B. Stinnett. You are obviously unaware of that.

  • James T.

    PS Ron Paul is Only One man How is he going to do anything if Both house are controlled by Differant Partys.Look whats happening to Obama,

    • DaveH

      Veto their spending bills is one thing.

  • James T.

    True DaveH. but that can be overruled by a 2/3 vote.In otherwords Ron Paul if indeed he “Does” get Elected as President. A divided Congress could make Mr.Paul a lame Duck.Which could,and would be bad for the nation(why?) Because a lot of pauls “Great” ideals would not stand a very good chance of passing.I am not saying anything bad about Ron Paul,What I think of him I will keep to myself,I will say the man is wihout dout one ofthe most honest Man around.As far asvotting for him ,that remains on what comes up between now and 2012.Notice i did not make any rude remarks,nor did I call anyone a bad name,I’m not going to bemd that low.

  • James T.

    Ps (to:ANYONE) Iknow there are those who think that Ron Paul is a little bit of a nut case(thats there opinion,which may not be mind),but its their opinion and seeing that this is a free country they do indeed have a right to expresstheir opinion,(I respect that.) without being called names,or having any rude remarks throw at them.

  • James T.

    Bye ,Bye now all you boys and Girls Remember tune in to this same Bat channel,at this same Bat time.Find out who BATMAN is going to “vote for,and why?”Learn of the great secerts Our great hero will use to decide who he will vote for.

  • James T.

    Could it be 1)Moe?,2)Larry,or3)Curly Joe?Find out next Week,and remember, boys and Girls ,keep those letters ,and cards coming in.,exspecaly those that are filled with rude remarks and lots of name calling.

  • James T

    If you do not Understand what was said here,please return to comment #one and re=read!!!and at the same time please Keep an open mind.Because you are going to need it.

  • Get free stuff and make easy money

    Amazing issues here. I’m very happy to see your article. Thanks a lot and I’m looking ahead to touch you. Will you please drop me a mail?


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