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Top Democrat calls for bipartisan healthcare bill

July 26, 2009 by  

Top Democrat calls for bipartisan healthcare bill As the battle over healthcare reform heats up, two influential congressmen appeared on a Sunday talk show to call for cooperation and compromise.

Despite assurances from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi that Democrats in her chamber have enough votes to pass the bill, Senator Kent Conrad, a North Dakota Democrat and chairman of the budget committee, said Republican support will be needed.

What is more, he suggested a bipartisan legislation would also be desirable, saying on ABC’s This Week, "We’re probably going to get a better product if we go through the tough business of debate, consideration and analysis of what we’re proposing."

Appearing on the show alongside Conrad was South Carolina Republican Jim DeMint, who, although he clashed with his Democratic counterpart on many issues, sounded a similar note when he said that "We could have a plan in a few weeks … if the goal is not a government takeover."

In DeMint’s view, removing the proposal of a public insurance option will facilitate a compromise across the aisle and result in a reform that has a broad political support.

President Obama and the Democrats want to introduce the bill before congressional summer recess begins in August.

However, commentators have suggested that even if the Democrats – who have 60 votes in the Senate – manage to push the reform through on their own, such a partisan legislation might spell political trouble for the party as well as President Obama in the years to come.

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  • s c

    Does Queen Nancy not know that libs hold a majority in Congress? She is proof that being the ‘top’ lib has nothing to do with knowledge or ability. Because the libs hold a majority, they can pretty much do what they want (she doesn’t know that?). Is there anyone left who doesn’t know what bipartisan really means? Bipartisan means integrity-for-sale. A grade school kid should know that much. Maybe she’s a victim of public education, and she’s been able to brown-nose her way to ‘the top.’ Try as she may, her methods show her to be a closet communist – or worse. Libs must define ‘the top’ as the top of a septic tank when they mention her. If she’s #1 at anything, it’s due to brown-nosing, suck-up politics. If she ever had much knowledge or ability, she has found many ways to forget everything she knew.

  • NObama ‘healtcare’ is exposed

    The American Spectator
    July 24, 2009
    By Ben Stein

    We’ve Figured Him Out

    Why is President Barack Obama in such a hurry to get his socialized medicine bill passed?

    Because he and his cunning circle realize some basic truths:

    The American people in their unimaginable kindness and trust voted for a pig in a poke in 2008. They wanted so much to believe Barack Obama was somehow better and different from other ultra-leftists that they simply took him on faith.

    They ignored his anti-white writings in his books. They ignored his quiet acceptance of hysterical anti-American diatribes by his minister, Jeremiah Wright.

    They ignored his refusal to explain years at a time of his life as a student. They ignored his ultra-left record as a “community organizer,” Illinois state legislator, and Senator.

    The American people ignored his total zero of an academic record as a student and teacher, his complete lack of scholarship when he was being touted as a scholar.

    Now, the American people are starting to wake up to the truth. Barack Obama is a super likeable super leftist, not a fan of this country, way, way too cozy with the terrorist leaders in the Middle East, way beyond naïveté, all the way into active destruction of our interests and our allies and our future.

    The American people have already awakened to the truth that the stimulus bill — a great idea in theory — was really an immense bribe to Democrat interest groups, and in no way an effort to help all Americans.

    Now, Americans are waking up to the truth that ObamaCare basically means that every time you are sick or injured, you will have a clerk from the Department of Motor Vehicles telling your doctor what he can and cannot do.

    The American people already know that Mr. Obama’s plan to lower health costs while expanding coverage and bureaucracy is a myth, a promise of something that never was and never will be — a bureaucracy lowering costs in a free society. Either the costs go up or the free society goes away.

    These are perilous times. Mrs. Hillary Clinton, our Secretary of State, has given Iran the go-ahead to have nuclear weapons, an unqualified betrayal of the nation. Now, we face a devastating loss of freedom at home in health care. It will be joined by controls on our lives to “protect us” from global warming, itself largely a fraud if believed to be caused by man.

    Mr. Obama knows Americans are getting wise and will stop him if he delays at all in taking away our freedoms.

    There is his urgency and our opportunity. Once freedom is lost, America is lost. Wake up, beloved America.

    Ben Stein is a writer, actor, economist, and lawyer living in Beverly Hills and Malibu. He writes “Ben Stein’s Diary” for every issue of The American Spectator.

    • Patricia Henson

      Ben Stein reply, I totally agree with you. The only good thing about this whole thing is that I beleive that when all of these nut-jobs are done using Nancy Pelosi that she will be thrown under the bus. I don’t understand how people can totally ignore facts like the Earth has been actually cooling down for the last 10 years in the case of global warming. As an American citizen I don’t want to have to pay for abortions and sex- change operations that the healthcare bill will cover, I also don’t want to have to pay for healthcare for illegal aliens who have never paid a penny towards anything that benefits this country or it’s people. I am tired of being called a racist or a terrorist because I speak out on these issues. I am tired of the name of Jesus Christ being nothing more than a dirty word when this country was built upon Judeo- Christian princibles. Under Obamas healthcare bill the government will pay for expanded coverage for the young and healthy by denying treatments to the old and sick. Our countries seniors, and the physically and mentally handicaped will have rationed healthcare while the government hopes they die before receiving treatment. There are just so many things about what’s happening in America that’s wrong that there is probably not enough time to speak on all of it. The thing that I worry about the most though is, is the fact that no one is reading these bills before they are voted on. Just a day or two ago John Conners said that no one should even read these bills unless they have two attorneys present to translate it for them. Thank you for being one of the people that are speaking out against some of these things going on. Patricia Henson

      • Mary Oele

        Response to Patricia Henson: I could not agree more with you. I find it comical that our president thinks that if he just keeps saying the same thing, it will become truth. How long will we need to be ostracized by the minority when it is the majority in this country that don’t believe taxes should pay for abortions? At what point will we have had enough?

        • Patricia Henson

          Mary Oele reply, Thanks Mary for your response. I guess the President feels that if he says it enough that maybe he will beleive it hinself. I think that what you refered to as minorities are now becoming the majority. More and more people are becoming less enamored of our president and are now starting to speak out. All I can suggest that you do now to help is to write, call, and E-mail your elected officials and I mean really flood their offices with how you feel about all bills coming before them to be voted on and ask them to either pass or fail them depending on the bill. I wrote mine 6 letters in 1 day the other day. I hope that they get so tired of hearing from us that they will start to really hear us. After all the people ARE the government and their job is to represent the will of the people. Those that can’t or won’t need to find other jobs as their terms will be short. Thank you Mary and may God bless. Patricia Henson.

    • DixieConnie

      Nobama: I don’t believe people ignored all of the above, I think they simple did not take the time to research and educate themselves on who they were voting for. Its sad to see herds of people doing stupid stuff i.e. Jim Jones and Gianna. They wanted to believe and they choose that way. Now, look at the mess we are in. I fear this health care program is a disaster waiting to happen.

    • Jeff

      You are right Mr. Stein. The only real thing the government will do for us is, well, nothing. The liberals really don’t care about Americans in my opinion, they just want to control us. They want power for themselves and have set aside justice, morality and Godliness. The freedom and wealth of the United States is being prostituted. We, as a country, must get back to our God and Christ.

    • http://personalliberty.com Julie

      You are so right, Mr. Stein.

      I believe Obama’s plans for us are sinister. Aren’t we all so pleased that the American people, in their wisdom, chose “change?” Well, we’re getting it, all right. And, just as Michelle promised, “Barack will never let us go back to our lives as they used to be.”

      For anyone who cared to look, it was there to see during the campaign. If Gates Gate doesn’t seal it for you, I don’t know what will. At the risk of being called names by the entire nation, I’m going to say it: Obama and his wife are racists…probably always have been, at least since sitting in the pews of Rev. Wright.

      But of course that’s not all. He is also an arrogant narcissisist. There will be the laws for us, and then there will be”the elected elite,” for whom the laws will not apply. Look for a Hugo Chavez maneuver at the end of his term.

      ObamaCare will cut costs by refusing service to older, sicker Americans. Know why you don’t hear about how they are going to cure the social security problem? It will cure itself when we all die before age sixty-seven. Mandatory and regular end-of-life counseling should tie up any loose ends, and presto!, problem solved! No more social security or medicare problems.

      To paraphrase Michelle’s infamous statement, “For the first time in my life, I am afraid OF my country!”

    • Al Shaw

      I would wish the Government would stay out of our business we don need or want National Health care and we shold stop paying for the Ins the Gov . Officials have . I dont see .them gettin in line for the National progam. Let us have the ability to or not to have Ins. and who we waNT TO HAVE IT WITH COMITITION WILL THE BEST WAY TO GET BETTER CARE AND LOWER COST. iT SEEM THE GOV. CAN’T DO WHAT THE CONSITUTION HAS TOLD THEM THE HAVE AS A RESPONSIBLITY SO DON’T MESS WITH OUR HEALTH CARE.

      AL SHAW

  • NObama ‘healtcare’ is exposed

    CALL YOUR REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE AND TELL THEM: OPPOSE NObamaCare UNTIL IT’S NOT TOO LATE!

  • http://Hotmail Mark

    Obamas Change

    State takes over the Banking Sector
    State takes over the Auto Sector
    State takes over the Health Care Sector
    State takes over the Education Sector

    His only CHANGE is to turn America into another red communist run counrty like China and Russia. I’m sure he dreams of their power at night.

    • Guy

      You forgot to mention China’s government is running toward the way we USED TO BE just to survive. Communism is when the government controls the means of production. Facism is when the government tells business what to do. The all encompacing term coined by Anne Rynd is Statist. Government sticking its big fat nose in everyone’s business and bedroom.

      Being interracially married I find it offensive when some idiot with common sense inversely proportional to his lefty education attempts lecturing me on race.

  • Rosenlundkv

    The drone goes on with hopes that we fall asleap while they push this bill. Lets understand that the CBO figures are more than likely conservative. Key points are missing from this is uncharted ground. It will cost us Trillions.

    But this is not about Health Care it is about Power to tax the public. This money is earmarked to go to Bank of the World as out lined by the goals of Bilderberg Group. Barack Obama is a sitting member on this scam. We get to pay for his participation just like the other junket to New York, Paris and Martha’s Vineyard. Clearly if the Congress cared they would have read the bill. Ask any Congressman and the ones who have not read it are those in favor of it. All we need is the List of Cap and trade voted for list to start the replacement list of Congressman.

  • Dolores Franta

    What is wrong with “we the people” why don’t “we the people” get Obama and his gal pal Nancy Pelosi booted from office and replaced with people who will uphold the constitution, these 2 anti-Americans are destroying all of us.
    His healthcare bill STINKS, I heard when all the Democrat representatives were asked to also take the healthcare bill they are trying to push down our throats they all refused, why should they give up their cadillac healthcare plan that you and I are paying for for a crappy one like they want to give us???? Do you older Americans realize that the government will REQUIRE all of us to be screened every 5 years and refuse us treatment for serious health issues because we are too old and not worth living? What government would do that, isn’t that up to God to say when your time is up and not your government? Time is wasting we must act now to remove these leaders that are hurting our people. America needs to not stand for another minute of this abuse to our rights. THEY ALL NEED TO RE-READ THE CONSTITUTION THEY SWORE TO UPHOLD and IF THEY DON’T UPHOLD IT AS THEY SWORE THEY ARE GONE!

    • s c

      Impeachment of b o and forced removal all his flunky pals [republican and democrat] may be our only hope. Obviously, taking an oath means nothing to b o. It means nothing to the slimers in Congress. Any elected official who helps pass legislation without reading that legislation is guilty of the highest level of voluntary incompetence (starting with Queen Pelosi). Few of those self-made retards in Congress have any right to be there. We are taxed without representation, and our sold-out government is working hard at enslaving us. Only Soviet-style useful idiots, wannabe
      elites and political robots can’t see it.

    • Smilee

      Dolores Franta on July 28th, 2009 at 10:27 am:

      More conservative fiction, the Majority of “WE THE PEOPLE” have spoken and you lost so can your wishful thinking it will solve none of this countries problems. It is clear you also do not understand the constitution or wish it to be something it is not. Sad

  • http://Yahoo.com L Huff

    Call it what you want or you can out and out deny it’s there but Euthanasia(1233) is definately part of the along with forcing those who do not support birth control or abortion to go along or be punished.There is just plain not enough understood or read by most specially those who support it to know whats really in it…

  • Joyce Duke

    All Americans should be aroused and angered by this proposal that the legislators have exempted themselves from. Let the legislators know that if they pass something that they are unwilling to abide by themselves, they are on the way out the door! From what I have seen of our esteemed President’s helpful actions so far, it looks more like harmful actions, harmful to all of us and to this Nation as a whole. Expect mandatory swine flu (and other vaccinations) this fall. Obama has already promised
    us 3 swine flu vaccinations! Refusal means up tro $250,000 fines and/or incarceration. If WHO declares this pandemic, we are immediately under UN and World Health Organization rule, and their rules are not necessarily improve our health.

    Are the two appointed to Homeland Security even citizens of the USA, native born or immigration? Do we now have foxes watching the henhouse?

    Racism is still alive & well, but it isn’t all only “whites” showing it! If any white male or female had made the remarks attributed to Sotomayer, they would have been disqualified long ago! This implies that the old “double standard” is alive and well but not only in “male vs. female”. It seems that “racists” is an adjective to be applied only to “whites”. Personally, I have worked alongside both outstanding human beings and outstanding a——- of various colors of skins!

  • ChuckL

    Bi-Partisan is defined in the liberal dictionary as anyone who votes my way. The antonym is obstructionist.

    Note: These are definitions made from observation, not by Webster.

    • Smilee

      Mary

      I suppose you want us to believe that you have read it. The bill is not even in its final form so whats to read as yet. Rumors galore are flying around, most do not reflect what is really going on but people like yourself try your best to make us think you know what you are talking about. Sad

      • Laura

        Smilee,

        You may want to know your facts before you accuse others. If Mary is speaking as though she has read the bill, then she probably has. And the fact that she is saying that people ought to read it for themselves and then contact their representatives, only goes to show that she cares that people educate themselves before speaking. Something that you have not done and obviously don’t want others to do. SAD… FYI anyone can go to senate.gov (the official website of the US Senate) and read the text of H.R.-3200 – Health Care Reform. I have, but don’t take my word for it look for yourself. READ THE BILL, EDUCATE YOURSELF, AND YOU JUST MIGHT FIND YOU AGREE WITH MARY. If you have any kind of education (including being self-educated), once you read this bill. if you do not agree with Mary, I would be shocked.

        • Smilee

          Laura Reply:
          July 29th, 2009 at 10:21 pm

          Its still a work in progress to date. Have contacted my representatives and given my views and ideas. I am very educated on this matter and fully understand what we have now and what we need, despite your assuming I have not done that, be informed I have. Reading it now is a waste of time, when it is in its final form then is the time to read it. reading it now will not chance their minds, letting them know what you want is what they need. If more people understood the problem and told their representatives the changes we want instead of trying to understand what they are doing would be more helpful and I encourage people to do that. Read the bill is a code word by the conservatives that you are not educated and that is hogwash. Lots of ideas out there, what is important is letting them know what you want and in the end what becomes law becomes law. Reading what they are in the process of doing will not educate us as that only tells us what they are talking about now. What we want by telling them might, I do not buy into reading what they are doing is an education, letting them know what we need is an education for them and is all that counts. If you do not know what changes are needed that tells me you are not educated. I don’t shock easily, not even from all the garbage tossed out on this venue and If I new what Mary was saying she wants then i could determine weather I agree with her or not.

        • Laura

          I understand it is still a work in progress and is making its way through multiple committees. I also understand it will go through many changes before final product. I too communicate with my legislators, letting them know what my views are, my concerns are, and suggesting changes I would like to see. I also read the bills, to see what the legislators as a whole are throwing in. This allows me to readdress with my legislators additional concerns I may have. I would like nothing more than to wait to see the final version before reading. IF my President would only stick to his word (what was it..oh yeah transparency..) and allow it up on line for 5 days before voting on it, I would do just that. I read it during the process as lately a bill is finalized at 3:00am and voted on by 10:00am. The speed in which all legislation is flying through these days is ridiculous. I’m assuming you are not a conservative, as read the bill to me is less about being educated, but more about getting people to be less apathetic. It is interesting to me that when I make a suggesting that someone read the bill and also educate themselves, you conclude that I do not know what changes are needed and that I am uneducated. How wrong you are… I am highly educated, highly motivated, and am the only one of my college educated friends that pays attention and gets involved. Most of them are liberal and most are apathetic. Personally I don’t care which ideology anybody is, I would just like to see people involved, instead of being sheep.

    • Smilee

      ChuckL on July 28th, 2009 at 11:03 am:

      Go get your eyes checked you obviously need glasses

  • Jack Kinch(1uncle)

    Bipartisan sounds good. Hopefully it will not contain pork for things having nothing to do with health care, Also, it should not cover illegal aliens except in emergency and then only long enough to get them back to where they came from- families immediately following. Congress, not doing its sworn duty and protecting our borders, should personally pay for any costs of crime and health care of illegals. Maybe this should be in an amendment to the constitution if the states ever decide to take back some of the power the feds usurped.

  • Mary Oele

    People need to realize that the health care bill is not about health care as much as it is about control. There are many items in that bill that have nothing to do with health care. People should be reading it and contacting their representatives so that it is known that those who vote for this bill will do so at the cost of their political careers. Then we need to follow through.
    So many people don’t take the time to inform themselves because it is unpleasant.
    Suck it up and do it anyway people. If you don’t, you will be sorry later.

  • Sherry

    I think some of the Dems are realizing that this bill is a colossal nightmare and don’t want the full responsibility on them.

    Have you seen the commercials? “A little cooperation, a little less politics” and we’ll have a healthcare bill. Sickening — this bill isn’t about healthcare — its about getting rid of so-called “useless” persons. I don’t understand why people think that they are “owed” from the government or that government can run anything — look at their track record.

  • ONTIME

    This Congress has the most persistent parasites of any since the Civil War, thes clons just cannot stop trying to scam this country’s voters out of their hard earned money, while they want to live high on the hog and pay for nothing out of their own pocket, our elite parasites are much to expensive to maintain and seem to have lost track as to who they were hired by and work for….I believe it’s time for acountability lessons.

    We can require they tax their own campaign contributions at a 50% rate, instill term limits and ask for yearly public audits from those we elect and their appointees, we can create a more responsible electee and one who remembers that they are our representatives and not their peasants.

    Fix medicare and medicaid, make it more efficient by clearly stating “no illegal need apply or be allowed”, enforce the laws and stop the massive fraud then you can pay the doctors a bit more and more will accept the program. Those citizens who need insurance and are hard pressed need to have their COBRA plans subsidized or offered a program to help them get thru hard times. There is no need to destroy what we have just to fill the coffers and grow the power of the government and the parasites that run it.

    STOP THE FRAUD!

  • http://www.readwhatisee.com P Alfonso

    What the Republicans need to give the Democrats and the Obama administrations is not a compromise but a defeat. If Obama looses on this one he is doomed.
    Their entire agenda needs to be stopped cold right now on Health Care. If Republicans sell out on this one it will be the end of the Republican Party.

  • http://www.readwhatisee.com P Alfonso

    What the Republicans need to give the Democrats and the Obama administrations is not a compromise but a defeat. If Obama looses on this one he is doomed.
    Their entire agenda needs to be stopped cold right now on Health Care. If Republicans sell out on this one it will be the end of the Republican Party.

  • DaveH

    Bipartisan? Does anyone buy that crap? I want my representatives to vote against any kind of health-care bill. I want my representatives to roll back the size of government, not increase it. Since when have the Democrats been bipartisan? Only when they can’t get their way with Democrat votes alone.
    Bipartisanship was invented by the Democrats to get the bigger and bigger government that they crave. I don’t vote to have my representative compromise. I want him/her to decrease the size of government and compromise doesn’t get that done.

    • Smilee

      DaveH

      07-09 Democrats controlled the senate by one vote and the republicans using the filibuster rule during these years and set a record for its use and this is considered obstructionism or refusing bipartisanship, republicans now hold the record on this. Democrats didn’t invent it and it has been used by both parties for years but not to the extent the republicans used it in the last congress. I don’t know how old you are but it has been years since real bipartisanship has worked and definitely not since 1994, both parties have done it but since the rise of the conservatives in the republican party who do not believe in it, it has all but died. Sad

      • Valverde

        Smilee, what you apparently do not understand is the fact that one cannot be bipartisan when one party is crazy. I’m specfically talking about Obamavich’s talk at Notre Dame where he called for pro-life people to try to get along with the pro-death people. It couldn’t happen, bub. The stakes are too big. That is what is going on here. It’s not a little give and take, it’s a lot of take and no give. As for abortion, our skinny little Pres. thinks it’s okay to kill babies, no, he thinks is good to kill babies. I don’t agree with the skinny SOB and can’t, not and live with myself. That’s the kind of crap he’s trying to dish out. If you look at where he’s headed from that point of view, it’s a whole other ballgame.

        • Smilee

          Valverde Reply:
          July 28th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

          How the hell did we get from bipartisanship in the congress to abortion, but people cannot get along if their position as yours is my way or the highway, in other works no give and take period. Stuff it!!! Name calling puts the brakes on intelligent discourse also. I don’t see the crap you are dishing out as in anyway a problem solver either. I doubt you will ever realize you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. I also believe he says he is pro choice and not pro abortion as you say, why not try listening to him when he talks so you can hear what he is really saying, but I suppose when your heart is so full of hate for him that would not be possible.

      • DaveH

        Smilee,
        As I said, we can’t downsize the government with bipartisanship. So, I am glad if it truly is gone. I don’t vote for people that are going to grow this huge economy-sucking government.
        Liberals rail about crooked business, but grow government ever larger. Of course, only honest people seek government jobs (I am being sarcastic). Naive.

  • Tom Johnson

    Bipartisan to the libs means do what they want. What a sham.

  • Dale

    I can very much agree with what people are saying against the congress. For years and years congress has screwed up on programs they try to run. Teddy couldn’t run a whore across a bridge.
    My suggestion folks is to QUIT electing lawyers to run the country.

  • Marty

    Get this… My Doc (an Ear, nose, and throat guy)… wonders why Obama hasn’t been blow away yet.

    To say “docs are pissed off over Barry’s vision of the medical world” is an understatement I think.

  • Tom

    YOU PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS.. WITHOUT A PUBLEC OPTION THE FOR PROFIT HEALTH INSURERS WILL CONTINUE TO PILLAGE THIS COUNTRY.. NO ONE WOULD GIVE UP THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY OR MEDICARE JUST LIKE NO ONE IN CANDA WOULD GIVE UP THEIR SINGLE PAYER HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.. ONE OF CANAD’S LARGEST LABOR UNIONS JUST SENT LETTERS TO PRESIDENT OBAMA AND ALL MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND CONGRESS PROTESTING THE LIES BEING TOLD ABOUT THEIR SYSTEM TO THE AMERICAN PUBLC. tHEY SAY THEY ARE PROUD OF THEIR SYSTEM AND BLESSED TO HAVE IT.. SO DON’T BE DUPED BY POLITICIANS WHO RECEIVE HUGE CONTRIBUTIONS FROM HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES TO PREVENT THE PUBLIC OPTION ..WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF??? IF THE GOVERNMENT IS AS INCOMPETENT ANS THEY SAY,, JUST WAHT ARE THEY AFRAID OF… I’LL TELL YOU WHAT IT IS,, THEY WON’T BE ABLE TO COMMITT THE AUTROCITIES THEY HAVE COMMITTED OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS.. THEY WILL FINALLY BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE WITH A PUBLIC OPTION.. WITHOUT IT,NOTHING WILL CHANGE!!

    • Robin, Arcadia, IN

      DixieConnie… You are so right! So many people voted without any research on the candidates at all. And, we are in a mess….a big mess. We must contact our Senators and Representatives. I have already told those in my state that when I vote at the next election, I will be looking at their voting record and then I will vote!

      • DixieConnie

        Good for you and I will be doing the same in my great state of Texas.

    • Robin, Arcadia, IN

      Tom… I think everyone thinks that the health care system needs to be changed, but that’s also what many thought when they voted for the big O. We can’t just agree to whatever they are proposing. That’s how Barry got in. I don’t like what he is doing. Transparency is what he promised, but that is not what we are getting. I don’t want big government. I don’t want the ‘change’. His promises were hollow. I don’t like him and I did not vote for him. He lies….

    • Smilee

      Tom on July 28th, 2009 at 3:27 pm:

      Thanks for pointing out the truth, but doubt most here are willing to listen to it and learn from it, conservatives are obstructionists and will do all they can to prevent reform including spreading tons of misinformation in hopes of accomplishing that and if we do not get good reform they will still be the ones who bitch the loudest about how horseshit things still are and most likely blame someone other than themselves for this failure.

    • Valverde

      Let the Canadians stay in Canada and we’ll stay here in the US, okay? and don’t tell us what to like and what not to like. I’m sorry if some people told what you think were lies about your healthcare, but I don’t think it’s all that great from what I know of it. We don’t need it and don’t want it. Let it stay in Canada.
      PS Tom, perhaps the idiot is you. Learn how to spell and quit writing in caps and your points might have a little more credibility, though I doubt it. It’s spelled Canada. Not CAND OR CANDA Besides, what the hell are you talking about? Are you saying that the government should run things or shouldn’t. Seems like your trying to say both. Re-read your palaver and see if you can figure it out. I can’t or I would have been much more pointed in my criticism. Smilee, STFU

      • Smilee

        OH!! what a hateful old woman you are, I would think he would know more about Canadian health care than you you as he lives it and I doubt very much you know much about it as you say say you cannot figure it out despite how simple he made it and as the only thing you can say about is the talking points and misinformation manufactured by the conservative think tanks and talk shows who are paid to protect their rich friends in the corporate world, Insurance companies etc. and supported by those of you who cannot think for themselves referred to by many as “DITTOHEADS”

        • Valverde

          Can’t you read or make a coherent sentence? I think you are losing it Frownee.

        • Smilee

          Valverde Reply:
          July 28th, 2009 at 11:09 pm

          Can’t you read or make a coherent sentence? I think you are losing it Frownee.

          TALK ABOUT COHERENT!!!!!

  • James Corbin

    Wonder why people come here from Canada for medical care! My brother-in-law
    went to one of the cancer centers. There wre people there from canada and other countries. They couldn’t get to see a doctor. Perhaps, the younger get service first!

  • Carol Dines

    Health insurance, like any other type of insurance is a bet! You bet you will become ill and will need financial assistance and the Insurance Company bets you will not and if you do, you will die before it costs them more money than you have paid them. If you don’t place a bet, you pay and get nothing.

    Health Care is not a right in the Constitution, it is available and, by law, it cannot be denied anyone who seeks it, but they will be sent a bill and expected to pay for services rendered. You can pay as you go or have Health Insurance. You have to set up payments you can meet.

    In the Health Care House Bill, there is provision for both abortion and counseling sick and elderly people toward suicide! I guess that the House has decided that murdering your progeny and parents is an ok thing., we treat murderers in prison better than this. If this bill passes they will prove Obama was right when he said we are no longer Christian or Jewish! Both suicide and infanticide are offensive to God, according to the Bible I have read. Oh, thats right, no wonder the leftists don’t want any reference to the Ten Commandments.

    What we need Congress to do is fix what is broken in the system we already have, leave alone the things that work and take a few years to do it with input from the people who actually work in the Healthcare industry, not just jump into absurdity and force us all into bankrupsy with all the mess they are creating in their latest bills, and not even reading them before voting.

    It should be a rule that if members of congress do not actually read a bill, it is an automatic NO vote! All members of Congress should be alloted a certain reasonable amount of time to read all bills based on the length of the particular bill, and no additions allowed after the reading is done and/or after the votes are taken.

    I believe Jefferson wrote a rule about this which they used for years but now have rescinded because the Democrats are in power, no matter who is the majority, this should be the rule to protect those of us who they are SUPPOSED TO BE REPRESENTING!

    Solyent Green, here we come! Commit suicide and feed the poor all in one convienent package.

  • Valverde

    The only kind of Healthcare we need is one that is not run by government and it doesn’t take any bipartisan crap to achieve it, just for enough of those opposing it to vote against it. Throw it back in Obamavich’s face. He’ll never know where it came from. He is too busy looking at himself in the mirror and telling himself what a grand fellow he is. G-a-a-a-a-ggg! He makes me sick.

    • Smilee

      That’s what we have now, one not run by the government except for Medicare A & B for seniors, and it is double the cost and Managed care, HMO”S, PPO”S and fee for service are networks that restrict what doctors and hospitals you can see and some have waiting lines and rationing now and Insurance companies constantly finding ways to not pay or cover you, and you people seem to be satisfied with that and what happens to those who can not get coverage or cannot afford it go to the emergency room at four times the cost and the government pays for that but it is run by the private sector. Now Medicare, you go where you want and if you buy the right medigap plan regulated by the government and all your medical costs are paid for no copay’s or deductibles. Here in Minnesota we have the Mayo Clinic and about half the population cannot go there because they are not in their network, this is not true for those on Medicare they can go there. Medicare premiums are about half of regular insurance. I was on COBRA for 18 months when I retired and then I went on Medicare and the restrictions were then lifted.. I paid $590.00 a month for cobra and had to stay in the network and now four years later I pay $290.00 a month for full coverage and go where I want including Mayo which I could never do the last 20 years I worked and was on COBRA. Why people want to pay double for less coverage and more restricted coverage is beyond me. The other thing that I find funny is that everyone bitches about government run plans despite this and they never have a suggestion as to how to resolve our health care as do not the conservatives or republicans who seem to have none at least none that will solve the problem, also I think many here have no idea how our health care plans work, government of private and speak based on their ignorance . Sad

  • http://Denis Denis

    The right approach to health care is a combination of public and private health care insurance. I am from Ontario Canada and I have both. If I visit my doctor,about three times a year I present a health card, no cash required. If I have an emergency (about three times in the last five years) and go to hospital I present my health card not my credit card(s) and my needs are attended. Almost all tests ordered by family doctor or a specialist are covered under the public health insurance program. If a person needs long term hospitilization as a result of a dibilitating injury or sickness no one will lose their home or go bankrupt trying to pay hospital and doctor fees. All members of my family are covered. My private insurance covers extras if required for my health.

    The question is.” What’s the problem with the Ontario Health Insurance Program”

    The answer is,”not a heck of a lot for 99.9% of the people.”

    This is where private insurance is needed to cover those special or unusual circumstance.

    So cut out the right wing rhetoric about the left wing views on health, both parties move to the center and develop a system of health care that serves the all American people not a selected few.

    • Smilee

      Denis on July 28th, 2009 at 5:43 pm:

      Thanks Dennis, my friends and relatives in Canada tell me the same, we have a bunch in this country who hate any form of government and seem willing to put up with the terrible health care delivery system we now have and it costs double of what you describe and many are denied coverage. I have been to oodles of benefits put on by friends and relatives to help pay medical costs and it is usually not enough, also many times they set up funds at the banks where people can donate to an individuals medical costs. We have a terrible system now and most here are fighting tooth and nail to keep what we have or to change to anything better than what we have. GoFigure!!

  • Mark

    What in the world is a Top Democrat? I believe this is an oxy moron statement. Where, who, and what is a top Democrat? Would someone really publish something on this because I am missing the point. The same can be said about Republicans. What is a top Republican?

    Where is the leadership in this country? It can’t be from top Democratics or Republicans because they don’t exist.

  • Valverde

    Smilee and Denis go live in Canada if you love it so much. I don’t know what the hell you are talking about and I don’t believe you do either. I’ve never had to pay anywhere near what you are talking about and I’ve always paid my bills. It was after government run Medicare came in that hospital and doctor bills went up; tripled in a year and a half so don’t tell me what a great thing government run anything is. Been there, done that, both ways and the self reliant way is better. Trouble is, people don’t know how to fend for themselves. Look at Hurricane Katrina, a lot of people who knew how to fend for themselves moved somewhere they could live until their neighborhoods got back to where they could live. I know at least 50 people who did that. They went and lived with relatives for a couple of months until they got back on their feet. Then went back to Louisiana or Mississippi until they rebuilt. We were glad to have them because next time it might be our families. I guess people in Minnesota don’t have extended family or they don’t help one another, because I’ve never heard of living off the government where I live. Don’t give me crap about the government being better because that is exactly what it is: crap. You think government run business is going to be so great. Well just see what comes out of Detroit now, if it lives to build anything. You two guys are so full of it, it’s not even funny. If you think this is just right wing horse hockey, it’s because you’ve lived all your lives where the nanny state takes care of you. I want no part of it, but it looks like Obamavich, Pelosivich and Reidavich are going to cram it down our throats. That’s what liberals are best at: telling other people how to run their lives. I just wish you would all go live in Russia or Venezuela or something and lets us live in peace.

    • Smilee

      Valverde on July 28th, 2009 at 10:28 pm:

      YOU SAY “I don’t know what the hell you are talking about” and it is probably the only honest statement you made in this or any other of your posts. Hate to disappoint you but I do know what I’m talking about and as you say you do not understand it then why the hell do you go on to feel you can give any intelligent response to what we were talking about. You do need to understand it to respond intelligently. It seem to me it is you who are so very unhappy in this country, maybe you would be happier if you went to another one.. I am in peace here and you might be able to be at peace too if you were not so filled with hate and calling people names etc. What does that solve. Oh by the way people on Medicare love it, I have even heard conservatives say that but never dare say it here. Get a good nights sleep and see if tomorrow does not look rosier for you, I hope so, I hate to see people so unhappy as you are.

      • Valverde

        I’m not unhappy. I have my family, my health and I just don’t want the government interfering and that’s what this whole thread is about. Do you think that it is okay if the government interferes “a little bit”? Ain’t no such animal as “a little bit” where the government is concerned. I don’t like Obamavich because he is pro-death so I am totally unwilling to give him an inch, plus I find very little I agree with him on. He’s an idiot as far as I am concerned, and if you see that as calling names, so be it. He is an idiot.
        BTW, I am not an old woman, an old man perhaps, but not an old woman, thank you very much.

        • Smilee

          Valverde Reply:
          July 28th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

          Why do you hate the government so much. Can you explain why????? Your health care is managed by the private sector taken over my big corporations in the last 30 years and they have destroyed our health care delivery system and made it into system whose priority focus is profits and no longer is the focus on yours or mine health concerns, Medicare is almost 45 years old and it is still focused on your health and not profits and does so without managed care, HMO’s PPO’s etc that limit your choice of doctors and hospitals in addition to sometimes making you wait for service and even rationing it, all the things you are afraid the government is going to do when it is already being done to us by the private corporations and Medicare has 45 years of service and have not done this except in 2003 the republicans passed and Bush signed a Medicare law that added to the original the plans that lets the private sector make the decisions and Medicare pays a part or all of the premiums of the plan C plans and the plan D for prescriptions is administered by the private sector. It drove the government cost of the Plan C plan up 13 % over the original Medicare A & B which is managed by the government and the D plan drove up the price of prescriptions big time for those that have to buy prescriptions, which should tell you the private sector is not capable any longer in getting the job done and the only recourse is from the government. Study all the health care delivery systems both public and private and if you do and do it honestly you will find this to be true. You have a choice in government as you get a vote and have no choice in who and what those on the corporate boards are and do and you are much more subject to their decisions without the recourse you have with government. I think you do not understand how either work very well and let your hated and biases drive your decisions. You sure sound unhappy even thought you say you are not, if you are so happy why do you feel you have to call people names and express so much hate towards those you disagree with. You are wrong when you say Obama is pro death, he has never said that. He is pro choice and not pro abortion and being you seem to be unable to understand that let me explain. What we are really talking about is weather we want to make abortion legal or not legal under human law, if we make it illegal we then take it upon ourselves to have the right to punish those who do it as opposed to leaving it between those who do it and God. By making it illegal we will not stop abortions anymore that we can stop any murder by making it illegal. There are differences between abortion and murder of a person after they are born. Before a person is born they are dependent on their mothers to sustain their life and there many many circumstances where complications are present that a simply act of having it illegal cannot address and be dealt with as an act of justice, Pro Choice people believe that judgment on abortion is best left up to God to punish if he deems it necessary and man should not sit it judgment on this as we are not able to sit in judgment is every case justly and therefore should not do so in any. I have every faith that God can handle it and does not need our help, other murders being illegal are something we can deal with a lot better and have to do so to keep harmony in society as best we can and we fail at that as there are lots of murders even through we make it illegal but it is still necessary in dealing with that issue. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, you and me included. He knows all and we do not and I’m not sure he really wants us punishing those women who have abortions and we Christians who believe in pro choice feel he his in a better position to make that judgment and it should be left to him and him alone. I HOPE YOU OPEN YOUR MIND AND HEAR WHAT I HAVE SAID AND NOT SPIN IT EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE WITH IT. BUT I WILL NOT BE SURPRISED IF YOU HAVE A FEW CHOICE BAD NAME TO CALL ME. EVEN THOUGH THAT IS DISRESPECTFUL. Sorry, I mistook you for a woman because I though your handle was a female one and I meant no harm in that

  • Valverde

    Smilee. That’s because you can’t reason worth a flip. Bipartisanship in Congress to abortion: I’ll tell you how it got there, then you can stuff it. Obamavich called for the pro-life people to bend a little (his words, not mine). In other words, say it’s okay to kill babiessometimes and anyone who is pro-life can never agree with that. I’m sorry if you think it’s okay to kill babies sometimes but that’s not the way it works. You either live from conception to natural death or you die from natural causes, not from some creep abortionist taking your life away. Abortion and that whole tableau is Obamavich’s idea of bipartisanship. Obamavich’s way or the highway, and if you have a live braincell in your head you will have to agree that his kind of bipartisanship is for the birds. Grow up, man.

    • Smilee

      Valverde on July 28th, 2009 at 11:02 pm

      You say “In other words” and that makes his words spun by you and then they are no longer his words but yours. By the way I am pro life and never said it was OK to kill babies sometimes that was you putting words in my mouth, and this seems to be about the only thing you are good at doing here, cannot you listen to anyone and hear want they are really saying and not twist and spin other peoples words so in your mind they sound as you want to hear them and not what the other person really said. I grew up a long time ago and got past having the stupid thoughts you are still having. Open mind is a peaceful mind I encourage you to open yours and let the truth come in.

      • Valverde

        No, “in other words” means that is what Obamavich means by what he said at Notre Dame, and if you don’t agree, read his speech. I did and that is exactly what he meant, so “in other words” is apropos here. It is a paraphrase, get it? That means “in short” .
        By the way, a friend of mind once said, “Don’t be so openminded that your brains fall out.” so I am going to search for the truth and be closeminded to lies as best I can. You really don’t need to take that as a slur against you.
        If you carefully read what I have written you will see that I am not having stupid thoughts, just ones you don’t agree with. Sorry ’bout that, but I’m not going to take them back.

        • s c

          It’s a waste of time to ‘convert’ the pro-death, big government crowd. As for health care ‘reform,’ the creator of that mess is the government. Somehow, the creator of the mess wants to be seen as the savior/fixer of problems of its own making. A bad government never admits mistakes. That would intefere with the flow of power. At the end of any given day, all that matters is the consolidation of power. It’s a false religion, and its apostles brainwash themselves into thinking they’re ‘blessed. Once hooked, reason and common sense are abandoned. Morality is just a word. B O and his thugs are
          addicted to power. It defines them. Their reality is fantasy. They will say and do anything to hold power. To them, hell is heaven, and heaven is hell. Remember that, the next time a b o follower dares to talk about compassion or morality or leadership. They belong in Bolshevik Russia. They are lost souls, stumbling in the dark of their own making.

        • Smilee

          s c Reply: July 29th, 2009 at 3:54 am

          SC

          You say “It defines them” when your whole post is you defining them in your own image and has nothing to do with reality and is your own fantasy based on complete fiction. Where have you been the last thirty years?? You must have been living in a world of your own making and not the real world. If the government is trying to get involved as you seem to say by “Reform” but you make it sound they have been involved all along, you have to be involved to mess it up as you say. The fact is corporations are now in charge of health care delivery and not the government (except for seniors which is a partnership between the private sector and government and are doing a much better job than the private sector on their own for everyone under 65 ) as they have been taking health care delivery over for the last thirty years. A fact you seem unable to comprehend. I find it interesting that this fact has gone right over your head. Do you believe these big corporations are going to change their behavior on their own. Follow the money and see what their lobbyists are doing and there in lies the mess in this country today another fact you have ignored, if you ignore all these realities you then cannot be living in the real world and you seem to be way out of it. Conservatives and you hate government and the reasons you always give are not based on fact and are all in you own minds which are so filled with hate and frustration making it impossible to know reality. Hateful people are very biased people, it is always hate that drives biases. WAKE UP!!!

      • Norm

        Smilee
        God bless your patience and fortitude but you’ve got an uphill battle.
        Some of the extremists in this blog are incapable of thinking logically and resonably. It boggles my mind. I think most are religious nuts. Anyone who defies science and common sense, ignores facts, and blindly follows self appointed masters, religious or otherwise, is beyond help.
        Most, frankly, don’t have the slightest idea of what their talking about.
        This unwarrented hatred of Obama is really puzzling. It’s all based on lies, rumors, animosity, fear, and hostility. Truth and reality don’t seem to matter.

  • James Corbin

    What is wrong with our health care? Why do we want to be like other countries?
    We may have a few flaw but we are the best of the rest!! Nobody can be turned down for services. The people can get care. YES, the government may help but
    I’ts not like they have full control—–Letting you know–what doctor,what care you can have,” if any.” There is a big difference in how Obama is wanting to do health care. On the other hand, we have alot of illegals getting care. I know nobody is turned because they don’t have health insurance. I had a friend in the ER and I overheard the young person(20′s) say she didn’t have insurance. The doctor gave her instructions(what to ask for) when she was transported to another hospital.

    • Smilee

      Where the hell have you been, this country is constantly having friends and families setting up benefits and setting up bank accounts to receive donations to raise money for those who have had medical services turned down because of no insurance or preexisting conditions and cannot get care, (I have been to many, this does not happen in most countries) yes, they can get service at the emergency room but cannot keep getting services there after the emergency is considered over by them. Sixty minutes a year or two back did a piece on this and after these people had been treated they were discharge the homeless ones where dumped on the street some in hospital gowns, in wheel chairs , some with dementia. WE have serious problems with our health care delivery in this county and not just a few flaws. You say “Why do we want to be like other countries?” well, it is because they do not have these problems or any I have described, polls taken in these other countries show a lot more satisfaction with their system than polls in this country do. And the National Health Organization has rated 36 countries as having better outcomes than we do and this puts France as no. 1 and England, Canada, Norway and Germany and others as having better outcomes than we do, that is not to say every medical facility in this country does that bad, the Mayo and Cleveland Clinics do much better than most in this country and attract people from all over the world amongst those that have the money to pay but not in most of our facilities. The conservatives of course want you to believe this in BS and tell all kinds of horror stories about other countries but few in these countries agree with them, but they never mention the horror stories that occur daily in our country. Conservative think tanks and talk shows are paid for mostly by rich folks and their agenda is to preserve the current system so they can keep making this easy money of the backs of the sick and injured and Obama threats that so they are vamping up their lies to try to stop him.

  • copperhead

    Hey Smilee – the $290 a month you are paying covers 25% of your Medicare Part B premium, and 20% of your Medicare Part A premium. The balance (a little over $1,000 a month) is paid by curently working taxpayers and their employers paying a 2.9% tax on the total payroll. That’s right, 2.9% of GDP. If you like that level of “efficiency” then vote for the reform bill in the House. If you want something better wait for the more bi-partisan bill to come out of the Senate. In any event, there is no need to rush such a complex issue into a law written exclusively by lawyers primarily for the benefit of lawyers instead of Doctors and patients.

    • Norm

      copperhead
      With hateful bastards like Jim DeMint, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner and that crowd, you’ll never see bipartisan support. It’s all political. They wouldn’t vote for any plan good or bad. Their only goal is to destroy Obama.

    • Smilee

      James Corbin on July 29th, 2009 at 9:07 am:

      Such a stupid statement Jimmy, what an imagination you have

    • Smilee

      copperhead on July 29th, 2009 at 9:07 am:

      More conservative fiction, just not true, if that was the case the government would be making a terrific profit as it pays out much less than insurance companies and the insurance premiums are only 60% of the amount you quote for medicare, we all know Medicare is not profitable, you also seem to ignore I had deductions from my pay for years before I got this benefit. You play very loosely with the facts which is very typical of the conservative mindset, you also do not know much about insurance albeit you are very good at making it sound that way to those who are ignorant of these things.

  • James Corbin

    With Obama’s plan!!! You may not get to see a doctor. AND if you are a littlt oldeer forget it!!!

    • Norm

      James Corbin
      And where did you get that scenerio??

  • copperhead

    And by the way Smilee, Medicare Advantage plans ARE managed care plans that pay the Advantage network a flat fee per patient rather than fee-for-service. Some people swear by these plans and some swearr at them. The last I heard about the bill in the House is that Medicare Advantage Plans would be ended, which is a direct contradiction to the claim that paying a flat fee per patient to keep them well is cheaper than paying a fee for service to treat their illnesses when they occur.

    • Norm

      Medical Advantage plans are paid by the government and subscriber. They are handled by Insurance companys.

    • Smilee

      I agree with you as to what the advantage plans are but the seven plus million people on these plans cost the government 13% more that the original Medicare determined by the CBO. The patient has to pay part of the premium and has a lot less legal protections from these plans that Mdigap plans. We have had thirty years of experience with these plans and what was originally sold as cheaper and better than what we had before that has now proven to be biggest problems we have with health care today. The cheapest plan you can now buy on your own from an HMO in Minneapolis Mn is a plan that costs $165.00 per month (for men, woman’s cost more) and the overage, an annual deductible of $10,000.00 before they pay anything then they pay all. The average spend in this country is between $8000.00 and $9000.00 per each per capita, sounds like they will make quite a profit, the best plan offered is $468.00 per month and has a $1000.00 annual deductible with a $30.00 copay for the first three visits per year to the family doctor and also first three to a specialist and then you pay 20% until you have paid $3500.00 out of pocket and not included in that is copay and deductibles. You are dead wrong on their being saving as opposed to other plans today, I know that from personal experience.

  • copperhead

    And just one more point Smilee, then I’ll shut up. You seem to have a real disdain for private insurance companies. Did you know that the cost (premium $) for Medicare has grown 34% faster than the cost of private health insurance premiums over the past 30 years? And that study counted Medicare Supplement premiums and Medicare Part B premiums as “private” insurance costs most of these benefits are paid by private companies. Yes, private insurance “rations” health care by simply not covering everything. Medicare and Medicaid also ration care by not covering some things. But with private insurance plans you at least have some choice in what coverage you want to be included and what you can do without. With Medicare and Medicaid it is the Government that decides which benefits are included and which and not covered, and the coverage is the same for everybody without regard to their actual needs.

    Bottom line: Government involvement means choices/benefits/costs/reimbursement rate, etc. are all set by a politician (lawyers in nearly all cases) or by a bureaucracy set up by politicians, and ususally on a “one-size-fits-all” basis. We DO need to reform the insurance industry by prohibiting exclusion of pre-existing conditions, prohibiting cancellation or non-renewal for any reason other than failure to pay the premuims, and making all plans available to every person without regard to state lines or employment status. We should require every person to carry health insurance or post a bond with the Government for their health care costs, just like we do for auto insurance. We should allow associations to band together to buy group insurance plans. And we should reform medical malpractice tort law to reduce the cost of malpractice insurance premiums, and especially to reduce the cost of excessive defensive medicine procedures and tests. So, let’s get off the bashing of private insurance companies and get on with letting Congress know specifically what we want (and what we DON’T want) included in health care reform.

    • Smilee

      And just one more point Smilee, then I’ll shut up. You seem to have a real disdain for private insurance companies. Did you know that the cost (premium $) for Medicare has grown 34% faster than the cost of private health insurance premiums over the past 30 years?

      MY REPLY

      Simply not true, my premiums for both Medicare and Medigap is half of what my HMO was before I retired and I know have far superior coverage. I have nothing against private insurance but today they have decided that sick people should not be covered and only seek to cover the healthy, it is no longer insurance but a racket that has gotten out of control and then those that they will not cover get paid for by the government or not at all, 60% of all bankruptcies today are because of unpaid mecical costs, that should tell you something. Your figures on Medicare premiums are bogus as well.

      And that study counted Medicare Supplement premiums and Medicare Part B premiums as “private” insurance costs most of these benefits are paid by private companies. Yes, private insurance “rations” health care by simply not covering everything. Medicare and Medicaid also ration care by not covering some things.

      MY REPLY

      Most is covered by Medicare + Medigap and much more than Managed Care and Insurance plans for those other than seniors.

      But with private insurance plans you at least have some choice in what coverage you want to be included and what you can do without. With Medicare and Medicaid it is the Government that decides which benefits are included and which and not covered, and the coverage is the same for everybody without regard to their actual needs.

      MY REPLY

      Here again you are wrong, aside from the advantage plans you have 12 different plans to choose from, they cover from much more than managed care and regular insurance to just catastrophic on top of Medicare. Far more choice than others. Yes the government sets the coverage on each plan but the range of coverages is far greater than non Medicare plans

      Bottom line: Government involvement means choices/benefits/costs/reimbursement rate, etc. are all set by a politician (lawyers in nearly all cases) or by a bureaucracy set up by politicians, and ususally on a “one-size-fits-all” basis.

      MY REPLY

      And in the private sector it is set by the insurance industry and is much more radical than the governments. You seem to have a real disdain for government when the real facts show they do a better job/

      We DO need to reform the insurance industry by prohibiting exclusion of pre-existing conditions, prohibiting cancellation or non-renewal for any reason other than failure to pay the premuims, and making all plans available to every person without regard to state lines or employment status. We should require every person to carry health insurance,

      MY REPLY

      * I could not agree more, Seniors must now carry medicare now, Interesting, the reform you call and describe is exactly what Medicare does now, if it was not for your bias and hated of government you would see that.*

      or post a bond with the Government for their health care costs, just like we do for auto insurance. We should allow associations to band together to buy group insurance plans. And we should reform medical malpractice tort law to reduce the cost of malpractice insurance premiums,

      MY REPLY

      The cost of lawsuits is less that 2% of the total Medical costs in this country and is not a real problem, limiting this limits the patient from getting paid for medical mistakes and takes it out on the patient. More attention to mistakes by the medical profession could on their own drive this cost down considerably and medical facilities have done this, many mistakes are just carelessness and can mostly be done away with, honest mistakes of course cannot and your solution is to punish the patient again. Lawyers have to prove their case and if there is no malpractice then they make no money, their profits are due to careless doctors for the most part.

      and especially to reduce the cost of excessive defensive medicine procedures and tests. So,

      let’s get off the bashing of private insurance companies

      MY REPLY

      I’m bashing insurance companies for not insuring people and this is legitimate, not because they are private insurance companies, that is why reform of them is necessary and you admit that above but still excuse their behavior, you can not have it both ways.

      and get on with letting Congress know specifically what we want (and what we DON’T want) included in health care reform.

      I have and will continue too.

  • James Corbin

    Like I have said before, I am a registered Democrat!~but not a liberal! I am broad–minded enough to see what is going on. I don’t believe we should be playing democrat or repuplican at this time! If people would put politics aside and look at things!!! We need to be building up our military instead of concecrating on other things. We won’t have to worry about healthcare, global warming( where
    I live, feels like fall) If the terrorist,North Korea or some of the other American haters try to take us over! Just remember—–”Beware of the enemy from within!!!
    Every Nation that has fallen, has fallen from within”

  • copperhead

    Yes Norm – Medicare Advantage Plans are run by Insurance Companies. The premiums are paid the the Government and the people enrolled in the plan. The Insurance Company sets up (hires) a health care network that agrees to prodvide all the health care needs of the enrollees for a flat fee per enrollee. Fees are not charged for specific services. This is the proposed “keeping people healthy” rather than treating them when they are sick plan in action. Results are mixed, some networks work better than others (surprise), some thrive and some cease operations because they can’t make it work. That’s how efficiency and cost reduction is achieved in real life.

    All of these plans use primary care “gate kepers” who effectively “ration” care by deciding if/when/where/which/how much specialist services are needed. This has led some to accuse primary care gatekeepers of placing their profits ahead of their patient’s health by limiting care more than they should. There is some (but not very much) anecdotal evidence of this. Like I said in an earlier post, some people swear by the managed care network approach, and some swear at it. It ahould be kept as an option in both private and public (Medicare and Medicaid) plans, but it should not be the only option. Let’s keep the choices open as much as possible.

    • Smilee

      copperhead on July 29th, 2009 at 10:02 am:

      Managed care (especial corporate self insured managed care plans whose only regulation is by ERISA) and HMO’s and PPO’s have been a disaster in this country and need strict regulation as they now are not saving us money or giving us as good care but are very profitable so that why we hear so many statements that they are so good, they do not want you to know the truth. I go back to my first insurance plans which paid for almost all coverages and you went to any doctor or hospital you wanted too. This was true for everyone and affordable for everyone and when I first entered the work force your employer always paid the entire premium and most employers offered insurance. You see we did once do it right and we had no government involvement, This is when insurance was just that and not just a means to rip off the public and make easy money.

  • Mary

    Healthcare reform starts with reducing costs, not growing government and government run health plans. Programs proposed to date look pretty much like Medicare. And while Medicare and Medicaid cover about 28% of the population, they are responsible for over 50% of healthcare spending. Not because they reimburse at higher rates, quit the contrary. They represent the lowest reimbursement rates to providers, meaning they pay less than other insurance companies but still spend much more than any other entity. So, where are those dollars going if not to the providers? Into the pockets of bueracracy.

    How can any sane person think the government can do a better job when they are spending so much on so few today?! A little history may serve us well. The double digit growth in healthcare costs can be traced back to the early ninties when HMOs and PPOs first started to appear as a result of proposals from Ms. Clinton and congress. Not blaming the Dems (I voted for Clinton twice), but these escelations in cost must stop as a result of reform. Not grow.

    The bills being discussed today avoid real cost reductions and guarantee increased costs and inefficiencies for years to come. Stop believing that this adminstration is actually giving free healthcare to all and wake up to their desires to grow government beyond it’s current monstrocity!

  • Valverde

    Smilee, I am going to comment on one thing you said in your long reply to me, because the debate on whether government managed healthcare or privately managed healthcare is best is moot from what I read here and we will have to live with whatever the Obamavich government gives(?) us. The one thing I am going to comment on is the one thing that I see as vitally important and the one reason I am totally anti-Obamavich: his stance on abortion. Did you know that from the beginning of his political life he has never, not once, voted for anything that would in any way limit abortion. He voted to kill the partial birth abortion amendment and has consistently voted to provide more funds to abortion supporters. Do you know who the biggest recipient of these funds are? Planned Barrenhood. Most of their funding comes through federal funds and funds from left wing organizations especially George Soros and Company.

    Did you know that while he was a Senator for the State of Illinois he voted to withhold life sustaining nutrients from a baby born alive from a botched abortion. Instead, the baby was left to die on the shelf in a closet of the abortuary to me that seems pretty sick. Obamavich has said that if a baby gets in the way of a woman’s lifestyle then it should be aborted. That also is pretty sick in my book. I could go on and on, but I hope you get my point. You are right, he has never called himself “pro-death”. He would be a political fool to have done so and he is nothing if not politically astute.
    I don’t want a man like that to be my President, which he probably isn’t anyway because he likely isn’t a natural born citizen. I liken his thinking to a man who walks up behind another waiting on a bench at a bus stop and blows him away. That takes a twisted mind, don’t you think? One who is as totally pro-abort as Obamavich also has a twisted mind and we don’t need a twisted mind governing this country. The last man we had governing our country who was as twisted as Obamavich was Richard Nixon, whom I’d bet you don’t like very much. I don’t like what he did either and Obamavich will do much worse if he is not stopped (and I’m not even remotely referring to assassination). His mind has to be that twisted. Agree with me or not, I don’t think one can be pro-abortion and not be pro-death. There is no excuse for abortion. It is evil and an abomination. Maybe the Supreme Court can evict him which would suit me just fine. That’s all for now. You don’t need to reply and I won’t be writing on this blog on this subject again, so don’t look for it.

  • copperhead

    Looks like I got Smilee all fired up so I will have to break my silence.

    Let me start by saying that I am a retired ChFC (Chartered Financial Consultant) with years of experience in the insurance industry, so I know what the insurance companies do and don’t do. Further, I hold 3 college degrees including an MBA from MIIT – I have son who is an insurance actuary for property and casualty insurance, and a nephew who is a health care actuary. I know what I’m talking about.

    Your comparison of the premium paid during your working years to the Medicare premium ignores the age difference in the insured populations. My figures on Medicare premiums are accurate. By law, Medicare part B beneficiaries pay 25% of the cost of part B ($100 a month). That means Part B alone costs $400 a month just for the Doctor’s coverage, and that is only for 80% of the approved charge. The other 20% is paid by Medicare supplements or by the patient. Part A pays hospitals, etc. again at 80% of the approved billing rate, with the other 20% being paid by a Medicare supplement or by the patient. Further, it is a FACT that Medicare costs have risen 34% faster than private insurance costs over the past 30 years, even when Medicare supplements and Part D costs are counted as private insurance costs. Keep in mind that your benefits are a combination of Medicare PLUS the Medicare Supplement. All you are paying for is 20% of the Medicare coverage plus whatever supplemental coverage you choose to pay for. 80% of your Medicare benefits are paid for by taxpayers who are currently working and paying into the system, and their employers. And just in case you think the Government is overcharging, don’t forget the Medicare is rapidly going broke.

    Your discussion on managed care proves the point I was trying to make – that is the claim that paying Doctors to keep people well is cheaper than treating them when they get sick is just plain wishful thinking. When the “care” is free (no co-payments) people use more of the health care services, not less, and ultimate cost goes up not down. So all these claims about “bending the cost curve” can be true only if less care is delivered in the future.

    Your comments regarding Medicare “choice” relates only to Medicare supplements, not to Medicare. You have NO CHOICE about what Medicare covers. You have plenty of choices about how to cover what Medicare does not cover, but every one of those 12 options are “standard” options that offer a specific package of benefits that have been approved by HFCA. A medicare supplemental package C is identical no matter which insurance you buy it from, as are Packages A, B, G, H etc. Now I agree that 10 – 12 supplemental packages offer a lot of choices, but don’t ever think you can buy insurance (public or private) that covers exactly what you want to pay for and nothing else.

    The cost of malpractice claims may only be 2% of TOTAL medical costs as you claim, but ALL of that cost comes directly out of the Doctor’s compensation, hence the widespread practice of defensive medicine which costs a lot more than the malpractice claims. Without Tort reform it will be very difficult to bend that cost curve.

    I agree that some of the insurance company practices regarding denial of claims and cancellation/non-renewal are abominal, but that can easily be fixed without a massive “reform” of the entire health care system.

    Regarding disdain for Government – I spent 20 years in military service and have been on Medicare/Tricare For Life for the last 5 years, so I know all about the health care available from the Government, both as an active duty officer and as a retiree.

    Sorry to take so long to get back to you but I was reading HR 3200. It is available on line if you want to wade through 1100 pages of legalese and references to sections of the Federal code by section and paragraph numbers, with little or no hint of what is actually in those references. I recommend it as sure fire cure for insomnia!!

    It isn’t what you know that will hurt you, or even what you don’t know. What really hurts you Smilee is what you know that just isn’t so, and you seem know alot that just isn’t so. Don’t bother responding. This time I really am done witht this conversation.
    But here are some questions I found in my research: Not mine – These are Dennis Prager’s.

    10 Questions for Supporters of ‘ObamaCare’
    By Dennis Prager

    President Barack Obama repeatedly tells us that one reason national health care is needed is that we can no longer afford to pay for Medicare and Medicaid. But if Medicare and Medicaid are fiscally insolvent and gradually bankrupting our society, why is a government takeover of medical care for the rest of society a good idea? What large-scale government program has not eventually spiraled out of control, let alone stayed within its projected budget? Why should anyone believe that nationalizing health care would create the first major government program to “pay for itself,” let alone get smaller rather than larger over time? Why not simply see how the Democrats can reform Medicare and Medicaid before nationalizing much of the rest of health care?
    President Obama reiterated this past week that “no insurance company will be allowed to deny you coverage because of a pre-existing medical condition.” This is an oft-repeated goal of the president’s and the Democrats’ health care plan. But if any individual can buy health insurance at any time, why would anyone buy health insurance while healthy? Why would I not simply wait until I got sick or injured to buy the insurance? If auto insurance were purchasable once one got into an accident, why would anyone purchase auto insurance before an accident? Will the Democrats next demand that life insurance companies sell life insurance to the terminally ill? The whole point of insurance is that the healthy buy it and thereby provide the funds to pay for the sick. Demanding that insurance companies provide insurance to everyone at any time spells the end of the concept of insurance. And if the answer is that the government will now make it illegal not to buy insurance, how will that be enforced? How will the government check on 300 million people?
    Why do supporters of nationalized medicine so often substitute the word “care” for the word “insurance?” It is patently untrue that millions of Americans do not receive health care. Millions of Americans do not have health insurance but virtually every American (and non-American on American soil) receives health care.
    No one denies that in order to come close to staying within its budget health care will be rationed. But what is the moral justification of having the state decide what medical care to ration?
    According to Dr. David Gratzer, health care specialist at the Manhattan Institute, “While 20 years ago pharmaceuticals were largely developed in Europe, European price controls made drug development an American enterprise. Fifteen of the 20 top-selling drugs worldwide this year were birthed in the United States.” Given how many lives — in America and throughout the world – American pharmaceutical companies save, and given how expensive it is to develop any new drug, will the price controls on drugs envisaged in the Democrats’ bill improve or impair Americans’ health?
    Do you really believe that private insurance could survive a “public option”? Or is this really a cover for the ideal of single-payer medical care? How could a private insurance company survive a “public option” given that private companies have to show a profit and government agencies do not have to – and given that a private enterprise must raise its own money to be solvent and a government option has access to others’ money — i.e., taxes? But HR3200 requires the public option to pay it’s own way after $10 billion in start up capital from the taxpayers. Just like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were to pay their own way as Government Sponsored Enterprises.
    Why will hospitals, doctors, and pharmaceutical companies do nearly as superb a job as they now do if their reimbursement from the government will be severely cut? Haven’t the laws of human behavior and common sense been repealed here in arguing that while doctors, hospitals and drug companies will make significantly less money they will continue to provide the same level of uniquely excellent care to a patient population that has grown by 46 million with no increase in facilities and no increase in the number of Doctors?
    Given how many needless procedures are ordered to avoid medical lawsuits and how much money doctors spend on medical malpractice insurance, shouldn’t any meaningful “reform” of health care provide some remedy for frivolous malpractice lawsuits?
    Given how weak the U.S. economy is, given how weak the U.S. dollar is, and given how much in debt the U.S. is in, why would anyone seek to have the U.S. spend another trillion dollars? Even if all the other questions here had legitimate answers, wouldn’t the state of the U.S. economy alone argue against national health care at this time?
    Contrary to the assertion of President Obama — “we spend much more on health care than any other nation but aren’t any healthier for it” — we are healthier. We wait far less time for procedures and surgeries.

    Our life expectancy with virtually any major disease is longer. And if you account for deaths from violent crime and automobile accidents, we also have the longest life expectancy. Do you think a government takeover of American medicine will enable this medical excellence to continue, much less improve at lower cost?

    • Smilee

      copperhead on July 29th, 2009 at 4:33 pm:

      I got to hand it to you, , you are an expert on snow jobs, I will not address this tit for tat but my experiences in dealing with all the medical plans out there today the last forty years tells me most (not all) of what you say is not factual. One thing that you omitted is that Medicare in its 80% payment to providers after deductibles is what they pay A & B is not 80% of the actual charges, if the the total cost of premiums was $1000.00 per month as you claim and about $400.00 more
      than private companies who pay in may cases more than double what Medicare pays (I see both amounts on the stubs I get) and are making large profits at that rate the government should be making many times the more profit than them. WE know they are not. IF your so smart where’s the money, any fool knows Medicare has financial woes that need attention and if you BS where true we would be rolling in money so melt your. snowjob, its sounds impressive but you do not impress me your just better at spurting this conservative fiction than most on this site.

  • Luckylady2

    If this bill was about health care, we could have a civi dicussion about that. TORT reform, ways to cut costs by cutting down on restrictions, lifting government mandates that require everyone( whether or not you need the coverage) to be covered by limitless political benefits, free market cost cutters, sharing the costs of pre-existing conditions, offering portability, allowing purchase of policies in competing states, allowing heath saving plans, allowing catastrophic plans for those who do not want full coverage, allowing people to chose the benefits that they need and avoid the ones they don’t want. There are many ways to make health insurance more affordable. This is not a discussion about health care. Mr. Obama simply wants control of 60% of the GDP. That is all this is about, that and the Dems want control of personal behavior. I hope he doesn’t decide to euthanize ugly people, it sounds like many of those in this discussion won’t be here for the next election. If only stupid were illegal.

  • Valverde

    Dear Smilee,
    You people who are so in favor of government controlled Healthcare should listen to this:http://tinyurl.com/mcmq6h. after that, tell me what you think. Seems to me us old people will go the same way as aborted babies. This is a result of the killer Obamavich’s twisted thinking. You and I might be the first to go. There is no possible way this can be justified. The man is evil, that is the short form. That is why he needs to be impeached.

  • James Corbin

    Carol Dines, Good!! I like the way you think! And what you say is so true!

  • FaRightWinger

    A new stalin has born and that madman is elected to be the ‘president’ of the United States. His masters goal is to reduce the American population by 100-150 Millions (the more the better – for them). The zionist-freemasons carefully planned this and their goal is: exterminate the newborn (abortion), exterminate the elderly and weak (euthanasia). Would you like to see your baby confiscated and aborted? Would you like to see your mother, father rounded-up and given an injection to – die? Then, vote for NObamaCare. Stalin is smiling in his grave! His best dreams came to alive.

    Barack Hussein NObama has proven with his words and actions that he knows no other strategy for addressing America’s challenges but massive taxation and limitless government growth.
    The ultra-leftist democRATS in Washington have taken last year’s election as a sign that voters want them to impose a liberal agenda on our society while we struggle with the present recession.
    Billions of dollars are being wasted on pet liberal spending projects, but there is little evidence that the so-called Stimulus, government takeovers of banks and auto companies, and crushing deficit spending are having any positive effect.
    Americans are starting to wake up to the marxist radical nature of Barack Hussein NObama’s agenda.
    And now, as his popularity and influence start to slip away, he is trying to ram through Congress an unprecedented new government health care takeover.

    Barack Hussein NObama’s risky experiments must be stopped.

    Right now the RNC is running an ad in an effort to counter the misleading claims of the NObama democRATS, and to keep the pressure on democRATS in battleground states like Arkansas, Nevada and North Dakota who may be pressured to vote for NObama’s health care boondoggle.
    But the RNC is running up against tens of millions of dollars in ads from liberal special interests who see the debate on health care as yet another way to get a government payout.
    Help us keep our message on the air and prevent Barack Obama and the Pelosi-Reid Democrats in Congress from ending individual health care choice and using your tax dollars to treat only the patients they deem deserving.

    After you watch our ad, please support our media effort to get our message past the liberal media filter and directly to the voters. If we do not stop the NObama democRATS’ risky schemes for our health care system, we will face the end of health care choice in America and new burdensome taxes.
    Now is your chance to defend health care freedom. We must hammer home the unacceptable costs and risks of the NObama democRATS’ government imposed health care scheme now! End Barack Hussein NObama’s stalinist experiments today.

  • Syrin

    The proposed health care plan is so good that they put in a clause specifically excluding themselves from it! Yet for some reason, the idiot libs think it’s “good” for us. If it is, why do they avoid it?

  • copperhead

    Forget the snow job Smilee – here are the official facts – check then out for yourself on Google or any other search engine.

    Latest figures for actual expenditures per patient per year:

    Medicare: $8,955 (does NOT include Medicare Supplements or Part D payments made by private insurance, or the premiums pAID for those policies)

    Private Expenditures: $7,119 INCLUDING Medicare Supplements and Medicare Part D payments which are paid by private insurance.

    Medicare pays 80% af the Medicare approved cost, so just divide $8,955 by 80% (i.e. divide by 0.8 for those of you educated in Government Schools) and you get $11,193 per year for Medicare patients. Add a few dollars for administrative expenses and you can see that the true cost of Medicare “premiums” is about $1,000 a month, just like I said earlier.

    I stand by what I said, including my comment that what really hurts your case Smilee is what you “know” that just isn’t so. Back up your claims with verifiable facts.

  • PROTEST RALLY AGAINST NObama’s GULAG CARE

    Co-ops = Public Option = Single Payer

    Knowing that Americans would reject the idea of a “single payer” government health care system, Democrats began calling their plan a “public option.” Now that Americans have rejected that idea too, Democrats are peddling another proposal called health care “cooperatives.”
    Unfortunately, these federally-backed co-ops are nothing more than a public option by another name. Washington will set up and subsidize them so private health plans are squeezed out of the marketplace. Then, like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the costs will catch up with these government-sponsored entities and Congress will tell us they are “too big to fail” and must be nationalized.
    Some Democrats are willing to admit that co-ops are the same as a public option. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) said earlier this month that, “We’re going to have some type of public option, call it ‘co-op,’ call it what you want.”
    Some Democrats are also willing to admit that the public option is the same as a single payer system. Congressman Barney Frank (D-MA) said this week that, “I think if we get a good public option it could lead to single payer, and that’s the best way to reach single payer.”
    It’s becoming clear that no matter what name Democrats put on it, all of their ideas lead to a government takeover of our health care.

    Join the Recess Rally
    At noon on Saturday, August 22, 2009, citizen rallies will take place outside congressional offices across the country.
    If you would like to participate, please find your Congressman’s local office and get more information.

    The latest government bailout
    This week, the Senate moved beyond bailing out industries that it has driven into the ground to bailing out its own programs that it has failed to manage.
    Proving once again that the federal government is incapable of managing the federal highway system, the Senate passed $7 billion to shore up the failing program. The bill also provides $7.5 billion to bail out the failing unemployment insurance program and $185 billion to bail out several government-managed home-ownership programs.
    Only 17 Republicans had the courage to vote against this rip-off. Click here to see how your Senators voted.

    Question: If the government cannot manage these programs, what makes anyone think it can manage our health care?

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