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Top 5 Ways To Fail At Eliminating Obamacare

September 18, 2012 by  

Top 5 Ways To Fail At Eliminating Obamacare
UPI FILE
More than 50 percent of the country wants Obamacare repealed.

Even though millions of people want to keep President Barack Obama’s Health Care “Reform” law, millions more want it gone.

With the June Supreme Court ruling allowing the mandate to continue — and most everything else too — people are trying to focus on just that and asking themselves, “What should I do to spend my time and resources most effectively?”

More than 50 percent of the country wants to see it repealed. Political candidates are basing their electoral success on their position on the law. Groups are holding educational rallies about what to do next.

Here at the Tenth Amendment Center, we’ve offered our own advice on what to do next. But we haven’t really addressed some of the other actions people are being encouraged to take. I figured this was a good time to put together a Top-5 list. But this is not a list of the best things you can do. Instead, these are the things I think you should avoid supporting most.

Why? First of all, because they will fail or cause more problems down the road. And also, since virtually everyone — especially in difficult economic times — has limited time, energy, money and other resources, it’s even more important to spend those resources wisely and effectively.

With that, here’s my Top 5: How to Fail at Getting Rid of Obamacare.

5. Wait for it to collapse under its own weight.

Some people are under the belief that the amount that Obamacare will cost will result in a failure of the program, or some even believe it could collapse the entire economic system. So instead of taking an active role in pushing to end it, they’re spending their own time doing personal preparation. Some sit, wait and do nothing. Others buy storable food, ammo and other things that would be needed under such economic chaos.

I believe the maxim that “things that can’t go on forever, don’t.” But there are loads of things which can’t go on forever — that seemingly do. For decades people have said that American foreign policy can’t continue on this path. It does. We’ve heard that the Fed can’t keep printing and printing… and printing. But it still does. Or that the next violation of individual liberty is going to wake enough people up to bring things to an end. But yet, Constitutional violations continue unabated.

Yes, Obamacare is certainly an economic monstrosity. But waiting for it to fail under its own weight won’t help, even when taking responsible steps for your own emergency preparation. And guess what. Tomorrow never comes.

4. Eliminate it by executive order.

While pure Presidential power isn’t an extremely common talking point for ridding us of Obamacare, I consider it pretty important to discuss. The use of executive orders has ballooned in recent years for virtually everything.

Both Obama and his predecessor Bush have made a mockery of Constitutional restraint with their use of executive orders. And of course, both sides of the political aisle make excuses for their President when he’s been in office. All of this is part of our never-ending path towards an executive dictatorship.

Last fall, Rick Perry made a statement that if he were elected President, on day one he would issue an executive order to eliminate “as much of Obamacare as he could.”

Look, there are many ways that executive action could, theoretically, put enough roadblocks in the way to bring the Affordable Care Act to an end. But, to any Constitution-loving person, the idea of a President “eliminating” law by executive order should be considered extremely dangerous.

Here’s the big problem. If we accept the idea of one person deciding whether or not a law will stay or go, what’s to stop the next President from reversing those decisions. This would be a temporary band-aid at best.

We need far fewer executive orders. Not more.

3. Go back to the Supreme Court.

Some people — primarily legal scholars and so-called experts — believe that a proper next step is to go back to court. Yeah, right. They’ll get to write more articles about it, get more attention on the legal discussion and advance the importance of their profession.

But that’s about it. The fact remains. In more than 200 years, the Constitution-violating men and women in black dresses have overruled fewer than 200 Congressional acts. I don’t know probability stats, but I’m thinking I have a better chance of getting hit by lightning twice in one day than of seeing the Supremes strike down this Federal act.

2. Vote the bums out.

Blowhards like Bill O’Reilly tell us that if “Obama goes down, so does the liberal movement in America.”

This one could easily have made No. 1 because it’s so idiotic and ignorant. Not only would the current alternative give you much of Obamacare under a different name, but there’s virtually no reason to trust Republicans in general when it comes to eliminating the so-called “liberal movement” in this country. They have been part of it for a long time.

Republicans gave us the biggest expansion of government-run healthcare in three decades when they passed Medicare Part D under President George W. Bush. They played a significant role in the new record number of people on food stamps. And twice this year, they voted to keep the program that gave us Solyndra.

But it’s not just Republicans who play this game. Democrats are equally guilty. The election of the “peace President” brought us new wars, an expansion of the USA Patriot Act, “indefinite detention” and much more.

The bottom line? Hoping that new bums will kindly reject all the power given to them is not just a bad idea. It almost never happens.

John Adams agreed on this when he said, simply: “Liberty, once lost, is lost forever.”

1. Repeal and replace.

I think the phrase says it all. It should say — repeal and repeal. Even though I know that Federal politicians never follow the rules given to them unless it’s politically advantageous, I happen to like the Constitutional limitations they have.

Even if Obamacare were repealed and replaced with nothing, there would still be a lot more that needs to be repealed to get even close to the Constitution.

The Federal government should not be managing the healthcare industry. Period. It doesn’t matter if that management is done by someone named Obama, Romney, Bush or Clinton.

I don’t want a new name for Obamacare. I don’t even want a lesser-Obamacare. I want the Feds to butt the hell out and follow the Constitution.

Moving Forward

You may not want to take the Tenth Amendment Center’s recommended approach to eliminate the Affordable Care Act, but that’s OK. If you stay away from these five options, you’ll have a far better chance of avoiding a complete and utter failure.

If you really want to see Obamacare gone for good — and not just a few pieces of it — smash the etch-a-sketch approach. Stop wasting your time, energy and financial resources on steps that will either continue the act under a new name, be sure to fail, or continue the expansion of Federal power.

-Michael Boldin, Tenth Amendment Center


Dr. Michael Cutler

is a graduate of Brigham Young University, Tulane Medical School and Natividad Medical Center Family Practice Residency in Salinas, Calif. Dr. Cutler is a board-certified family physician with more than 19 years experience. He serves as a medical liaison to alternative and traditional practicing physicians. His practice focuses on an integrative solution to health problems. Dr. Cutler is a sought-after speaker and lecturer on experiencing optimum health through natural medicines and founder and editor of Easy Health Options™ newsletter — a leading health advisory service on natural healing therapies and nutrients.

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  • Doc Sarvis

    Romney will not get rid of the Affordable Care Act, he said so himself. He said he would keep “parts” of it but, as usual, provided few specifics. It is his baby anyway so I doubt he would pull the plug.

    • Peter Sagi

      If you have an ugly wart, the only real solution is to gouge it out at its root. If you just skim the surface, it will grow back. The same can be said of Obamacare. It is an ugly wart on the body politic, and, in order to remove it and have it NOT grow back, it needs to be gouged out at the root. At the root of Obamacare is the New Deal socialism going back to the FDR days, and that means eliminating that mother of all social programs, Social Security. And before anybody gets huffy reading this, thinking that I advocate turning little old ladies out on the street … read further.

      Social Security was sold to the public as a form of social insurance. The public was told all about trust funds, retirement accounts, annuities, etc. In fact, none of that ever existed. When challenged up to the US Supreme Court, the attorney’s for the govt. said that it was none of those, it was just another tax with funds going to the general treasury of the United States. Nobody was guaranteed a benefit. Any “benefit” was merely a handout, the same as any other welfare program. Congress could abolish benefits, tax benefits, alter benefits, raise retirement age, establish means tests, etc. Nothing could stop that legally. A lot of folk have heard all this and understand it to be true, and go along with the system regardless. But perhaps that is because they haven’t heard the rest of the story.

      If you have an SSN, you are eligible to receive “benefits” from the federal govt. and this makes you a subject of the federal govt. instead of a sovereign over it. Your status is that of federal employee legally for executive orders, and when working, you are first and formost a federal employee on the job. It is as if the federal govt. is your temp agency that you go thru to work for your local “employer.” The federal govt. can’t just barge into a private contract between you and the company you work for, but they can be INVITED in. It is thru this invitation that you are the “beneficiary” of minimum “wage” laws, maternity leave mandates, OSHA regs, overtime regs, etc… all the “law” that applies to “employment” in its legal definition. All that applies via use of an SSN on the job. In addition, you authorize withholding for FICA, the employer incurs liability for payroll tax since he has hired a federal employee. Medicare tax liability is incurred. So is liability for federal income tax. Since there is a reciprocal taxing agreement with the states, the states can tax the same liability, hence liability for state and local income taxes are incurred as well. Obamacare is simply one more tax that liability is incurred for via “employment” as opposed to mere hire … the difference is use of an SSN on the job. It is that simple.

      There is one final thing about Social Security that most people, including most lawyers, simply do not understand, don’t get, doesn’t compute … but the Social Security administration will admit this in writing if asked, email or snail mail, ssa dot gov … and that is having and using a Social Security number is 100% voluntary and not required to live OR WORK in the United States nor is it required to have just for the sake of having. In theory you are supposed to be able to get a job without an SSN. A few have by educating the companies they work for, but this is rare, most usually corporate Amerika insists upon an SSN and makes believe that it is somehow a government requirement when in fact it is simply their company policy, based most usually on ignorance, fear, and listening to accountants and lawyers who believe that is what the law requires when there is no such requirement by any law, with the SSA admitting to the voluntary nature of the program/SSN use. Again … no SSN use, no liability incurred for Obamacare.

      So am I saying that we need to pass a law to get rid of Social Security? NO!!! The law to pass is one that would require full disclosure anytime anyone anywhere for any reason asks for an SSN. The full disclosure should be in plain language, understandable at the third grade reading level most beer swilling sports fans are dumbed down to. The disclosure statement should fully disclose all benefits guaranteed (none) all powers of attorney turned over or implied, all rights waived, and all liabilities, including tax liabilities, incurred. The statment should be both written and oral, initialled off point by point, signed by both parties as well as three witnesses or a Notary Public. This should even apply to the most casual request, such as on a form at a the office of a dentist or chiropractor. The effect of the law would be to eliminate all casual requests, and cause companies that hire to fully disclose that their insistence upon an SSN is the result of their policy and not any law. Companies that stopped insisting on an SSN as a condition for hire would be more competitive, since they would no longer be hobbled by payroll taxes or Obamacare mandates.

      Pete

      • Polski

        That’s naive. Theory and practice are two different things.

      • Peter Sagi

        This is for Pukesky … no, it it is NOT naieve. The fight is with your employer, not the govt. Way back when unions tangled with employers and won.

        Pete

      • Karl Landgren

        I second the motion. I have a huge disdain for the notion that an individual be identified by a number; and, yes, “entitlement” schemes must be phased out of existence in America

      • nc

        Pete, why not go ask the small town small business “mom and pop’ stores what would happen to their businesses if Social Security payments were to end in their towns and counties where the reciprentsts buy their clothes , foods, medicines, pay their rent, buy their fuel etc.etc.etc.
        Do a study of how much is paid out by the government each month and how much of that “pay out” comes back into the economy within 30 DAYS as the fixed income people make their weekly and monthly payments! Social Security checks
        have been the best and longest running “stimulus” to the local economies in our country’s history! Stop them and and see how many “gone out of business” signs start to pop up! The folks who have made it to deaths door on those payments since they were started sure did live a better life because of them also. I grew up on textile mill village (“mill hill” to use the local term) in the 40s and 50s and i know first hand how the poor lived and what got them and the local businesses by!

      • DaveH

        NC says — “Pete, why not go ask the small town small business “mom and pop’ stores what would happen to their businesses if Social Security payments were to end in their towns and counties where the reciprentsts buy their clothes , foods, medicines, pay their rent, buy their fuel etc.etc.etc.”.
        If they were knowledgeable, unlike NC, they would say that their businesses would improve, because Government would no longer be stealing money from those who don’t voluntarily accept it. So the real Owners of that money would be able to spend it wisely and effectively if they so chose, unlike what the Government has done with that stolen money — it’s gone, spent by Big Government and replaced with IOUs.
        If I had saved my own money, I would now have 3 times the Principle that Big Government has allocated to me, and I wouldn’t be dependent on begging Government to keep me alive, and I would be able to leave it to my heirs when I died. What else can we expect when we sell our souls to the devil?
        Social Security. Worse than a Ponzi Scheme:
        http://mises.org/daily/5658/Is-Social-Security-a-Ponzi-Scheme

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        “If I had saved my own money, I would now have 3 times the Principle that Big Government has allocated to me”
        That’s what people were saying before the Enron crisis. That’s what people claimed before the housing crash. That’s what all sorts of people say about being allowed to invest for their future, as if the markets are some sort of guarantee for the future.

        Perhaps it’s gold you have your eyes on? Gold has done very well over the last decade, but those who are faint of heart could have lost a bundle between March and May alone. Face it, gold is like any other investment; the price will climb only so long as people are buying. The big players need your money to push the price. Why do you think there’s so much advertising for gold dealers? The smart investors will know how to read the market and get out before the price plummets, while most investors will be caught in the slide back to reality.

        Investment is all about risk, something most families can’t afford. Social Security is designed to spread the risk, much like insurance. It has served millions of people in their retirement and will continue to do so for decades, if we can keep the stock market’s hands out of the till.

      • General “Bull” Shipper

        Mr. Sagi
        we were not told the truth about social security, When i went to work 45 yrs ago i was not told this was not required, that i did not have to participate in the social security program. Had i known this i would have opted out of the program and stuck my money elsewhere. As i have paid into social security for at least 45 yrs, now is not the time to tell me i will get nothing from the program. When money is taken from me and not paid back, i consider this stealing and will not tolerate it as long as i have a gun and some ammo.
        I will NOT advocate the violent overthrow of the federal govt as this is unconstutitional, but i would advocate the idea of throwing the bums out.

      • TerriG

        Social Security has always run the way it’s now. The current workers pay iinto the fund, to be used by the current beneficiaries. If you don’t believe me, go look at a newspaper from 1935 that explains exactly how it works. The newspapers can be found oat you local library, or online on sites like newspaperarchives.

      • DaveH

        Kinetic says — “That’s what people were saying before the Enron crisis. That’s what people claimed before the housing crash. That’s what all sorts of people say about being allowed to invest for their future, as if the markets are some sort of guarantee for the future”.
        No, Kinetic, I’m talking about having invested it in “safe and secure” time deposits (CDs), at the average interest rate over the last 40+ years of my Forced participation in Social Security.

        Personally, being very adept at investing (I predicted the dot-com bust, and the real estate bust), I could have done much better, but I try to use investment examples that the average guy could have used.

      • TIME

        Dear People,

        Social Security is not a security, nor is it social.

        What is it, is a {leagl way to rob} from you. Its not an investment, nor is it an Entitlment, nor is it a savings plan for your future.

        Its nothing more nor nothing less than “Legal Theft” that has endured only by your “CONSENT.” Just like the IRS, and the rest of the Criminal units you call Government.
        Yet even being that your consent was due by your complete and total ignorance of its concept, and most still sit back as pisson about something you’re ignorant about.

        Americans who are just too busy to think, or do even basic research as clearly demostrated here daily by the same “mindless stupid sheep” over and over again.
        Saddly most even if per chance they did crack a bloody book would be confounded by what was being stated with the letters formed by synthetic black ink on pressed bleached wood pulp.

        You have all sealed your fate’s by closing your eyes, plugging your ears, then turning off your gray matter of what your Creator gave you the ability to reason, as well formulate coherent thinking patterns. {Rather than OPINION’S based on old moldy cow turds.}

        So – as the old saying goes, you would rather kill the messengers as the message is too bold for such shallow thinking Freaks.
        You just change the channel on your “PRE PROGRAMED” gray matter blenders so that you have a nice froth between your ears.

        How sad, that so many of you can’t see the forest through the tree’s on OMEN CARE issue.
        Thats why you would allow Leagl Theft in the first place.

        PEACE & LOVE,

      • SJJolly

        If Social Security is abolished — payroll taxes stop being collected, benefits stop being paid out — how do you propose that Uncle Sam refunds people’s contributions? If the money is not refunded, there will be The Mother of all political $hit storms!

      • Deerinwater

        Michael Boldin say; “More than 50 percent of the country wants to see it repealed. Political candidates are basing their electoral success on their position on the law.”

        This is a broad unsupported statement. How was this determined, does anyone know?

        And which “Political Candidates”? All of them or some of them?

        Does that offer some validation of correctness? I really don’t think so.

        Midterm election tend to swing to the minority party’s favor, and believe me ~ after the 2008 the general election results were in , the GOP barely had a heartbeat. Not to steal their thunder with a robust GOP midterm 2010 come back ~ but “it is what it is”

        Big Pharm, corporate interest and the GOP spent TONS of loot on propaganda to rally support to defeat the Affordable Health Care Act, make this Issue nothing short of a ” Call to Arms” , so it is most certainly safe to say GOP candidates rode the coattails of this much loot spent spreading the “message of opposition”. It’s easy enough to see a candidate ride such a wave and surf into an elected position from regions that enjoy strong conservative support. That support was, “regional “and why the 50% number being used and is not even being contested in this court of “Public Opinion” that has been “Bought & Paid For ” by Special Interest.

        All this tells us is, that Money don’t talk, it screams! ~ but clearly not loud enough to defeat the Affordable Health Care Act.

        Much like the “GOP” track record that can’t be defended , so too is the passage of this “Act” . To speak of it , is to speak of yet another defeat, best left to ignore and maybe everyone will forget.

        This is a battle between the Haves Less and Have Moore’s. As the Have Moore’s attempt to keep what they have as any disparity is found in their favor finding their old brand of Social Medicine seen as better then the new brand.

    • Flashy

      Doc…just take the claim “More than 50 percent of the country wants to see it repealed. ” …

      What a bunch of horse pucky. Folks are realizing the benefits as more and more becomes effective and into play. When you get to specifics about what they want repealed….hmmmm….not much comes up as what folks want ousted.

      let’s see…they don’t like those rebate checks? or insuring pre-existing illness, or covering the kids to 26 (college years)? How about the preventive portions which are now covered? Or hey…i think we should eliminate closing the donut hole for Seniors ! hmmmm….how about doing away with the banning of lifetime caps or denying treatment because it would be too expensive compared to the life in question? Or the two years of a 4% health care cost increase, lowest increase in healthcare costs in the past 50 years?

      When folks say ‘do away with obamacare”…i always ask…which part? And start listing the benefits. You’ll get blank stares…

      • lj

        The things you mentioned worth keeping amount to a single small paragraph.

        What about the other approx. 2,800 pages of information. Things like taxing medical equipment to help pay for Obamacare. That should lower the price of health care.

        The problem with heath care in the US is that it cost too much. Obamacare never seriously addressed this problem. Instead, an entire new bureaucracy has been added to the cost of health care.

        The best parts of Obamacare can be outlined on 2 pages, without any new taxes or additional bureaucracy.

      • Karl Landgren

        Flashy: my son, who just turned 8 y.o. last month, knows that a plus (+) sign means add.
        That means MORE, not less. Please try to explain how covering more people, and additional illnesses, and increased ceilings is going to make medical insurance, or medicine, or surgery, or therapy cost less? What article and section of the Constitution authorizes Congress or a bureau, agency, or department to require that 24 year olds mooch off of their parents?! As for the so-called donut hole, the whole donut is the problem! Do you realize the folly of expecting the problems created by excessive government intrusion to be solved by a lot more government meddling? If throwing gasoline on a fire worsens matters, should one apply a whole lot more gasoline?
        The most effective prevention for millions of people will be to eat sensibly, work hard, and avoid ingesting or inhaling addictive toxins. Do you actually believe that bureaucrats will make wiser end-of-life decisions than you and your family? Almost mortal who has ever spent time on this earth has faced these difficult choices. I’d rather that my siblings and I fast and pray about our parents’ time to return home than to entrust such a sacred matter to a complete stranger, wouldn’t you? What parts must be eradicated, you ask: the whole notion that our Federal government has been overstepping its bounds since 1913. That is the fateful year when the “Federal” Reserve took over Congress’ duty to oversee monetary policy, and the year that the insidious income tax scheme began. Those two events opened the door for Marxists to begin destroying the greatest nation that our Father ever blessed His children to enjoy. I encourage you to read &/or listen to Reagan’s prescient 1961 radio address, keeping in mind that he was not a politician at the time; just a patriotic (i.e. liberty-cherishing) statesman, which he continued to be.
        A key point that far too many people seem to have somehow forgotten: Our beloved Founders declared INdependence from the iron fist of a power-hungry tyrant. That’s NON-dependence, ANTI-dependence. Those who think dependence is acceptable may go to where tyranny already has a strangle hold on the subjects. Cuba and North Korea are two prime examples. I will buy two of you a one-way ticket. Write (if they’ll allow you).

    • carrobin

      Obamacare is the best thing that’s happened in the past twentysomething years. It saves money, saves lives, and moves the USA back into the group of First World countries that cover all their citizens while spending far less than our rickety old “healthcare” system does. I can’t believe so many people want the insurance companies to control their medical needs (at a huge profit to themselves), while running the country into the ground with constantly rising premiums. Almost everyone in the country does want Obamacare–they just don’t want to pay for it. Well, the insurance companies will make you pay more, in the long run. Much more.

      • Peter Sagi

        Road apples, total overflowing horsebag full of road apples, fresh and fragrant, right from the patout. Obamacare is worse than socialism, it was written by the insurance companies that have been creating the health care problem in this country in the first place. If insurance were outlawed, health care costs would come down dramatically. So the guys who caused the problem get to offer the solution? That is what Obamacare is about.

        Fortunately, it is voluntary. Unvolunteer yourself, stop using a socialist slavestate number.

        Pete

      • Foundersten

        Carrobin: Before parroting leftist talking points you should do your homework. Obamacare has not saved any lives (it’s not even in effect yet) and will not cost/save any more lives than the current system. What it will do is cause extended mysery for more people as current safety nets get replaced with an already bankrupt system (Medicare) with services that will make the VA’s years long evaluation process look pretty snappy. As for saving money, I think the current tab for Obamacare is at about $1.5 Trillion over just ten years. Considering the usual government overruns and mismanagement we can easily expect that to triple if the government is nice to us. Actually look and see what kind of system other countries have. Look at how short Canada and Britain are on doctors because healthcare bureaucracy is too cost prohibitive for students to justify the expense of 8 years of college. Check out what people have to say about waiting lists and how those lists are prioritized (think granny is going to get that hip replacement when a 21 year old soccer player needs knee surgery?). Obamacare is wrong. It was sold wrong to the American public (commerce clause that turned into a tax increase), it was enacted wrong (pass it to read it), and it is enforced wrong (IRS…really?). When our founding document can be read in under an hour, but this one bill is over 2,000 pages long that no one person is an expert in should be a blatant red flag for all of us.

      • Kate8

        Nationalized healthcare was another part of the Big Plan, and it’s easy to see how it was made to come about.

        Back when my kids were born, in the ’70s, a visit to the doctor was $7. A week in the hospital…under $300, and that was when my husband was in ICU. We had never heard of insurance.

        Then, out of nowhere, people began malpractice suits and were getting huge compensation awards, and doctors were forced into buying “malpractice insurance”, which, of course, was ultimately charged to patients. This grew bigger and bigger, and the more dangerous medicine became, the more we had to pay for it.

        Then, of course, WE had to buy insurance to cover the costs of the insurance paid by doctors and hospitals… And just who benefitted from all this? The newly created insurance carriers, and the elite orchestrators behind them. And don’t think that all of our politicians didn’t rush to get in on the investments into this exploding new industry.

        The idea was to make healthcare so costly that it would bankrupt families, up to the point where we’d be begging for the government to take over. And, all the while, polluting our entire environment so that we’d be too sick to manage on our own.

        Healthcare never was about our health. It’s to get us to allow “authorities” to manage our diseases (created by THEM), and all of the controls which go along with it. Any person in their right mind would see that this never was there to benefit us, but rather to further enrich the establishment. Had we been educated in managing our own health and avoiding the system, we would not be here at all.

        Now, even for those of us who want nothing to do with any of this, the progressive’s, claiming to know best for us once again, have contrived to FORCE their agenda on the rest of us. No choices, no personal boundaries.

        We are approaching this issue from the wrong angle. What we need to do is to clean up the food, the water, the AIR, and to return to things which enhance health rather than destroy it. We need to get in touch with our spiritual nature so that we know who we are, and know the kind of changes we can bring about from having a “renewed mind”.

        I, for one, am fed up with all kinds of tyranny, and refuse to accept any more of it. The human spirit, by nature, yearns to be free. It can’t be held down forever.

      • Karl Landgren

        Carrobin, where did you get those kinds of ideas? What reasoning, what facts did you employ to arrive at such conclusions? Can you cite one bill that has been more vociferously protested than the Patient Destruction and Unaffordable Don’t Care Act?
        Most–albeit, sadly by too slim of a margin–Americans do NOT want our grandchildren saddled with an oppressive tax burden, and debt they may never repay. Most TRUE Americans most certainly do not want Communists in Congress passing an illegal immoral 2700 page bill without at least reading it first! True (read patriotic) Americans want to enjoy the blessings of Liberty that so many bled, sweated, wept, froze, and starved to secure. Please join us in steering this beloved ship of state back on course, I implore you.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Ariviste

        I have already experienced some of Obamacare. One of my doctors has stopped taking Medicare and Medicare Advantage. The government doesn’t even pay the doctor enough to pay for filing the endless paperwork to get their money. Obamacare will further cut doctor’s pay. With millions added to the Obamacare rolls doctors will merely stop taking Medicare insurance. It is a fact that major medical decisions for many of our seniors will be decided by a government panel who will decide whether the cost of the procedure is worth the life of the patient. Many hospitals w ill be forced to close since they won’t be able to bare the cost of those millions with an inefficient government controlling it. Already two of my doctors have chosen to retire even though they have many years left to serve. Many more doctors have said they will retire or go into another field rather than practice substandard medicine that will have to be practiced when the government is in charge. We could go on and on about how drug companies will stop research on more expensive drugs because of costs. The point is that we are trading the greatest medicine in the world for substandard medicine and Americans will not be happy about it.

        • Smilee

          There have always been doctors who do not take Medicare so that is nothing new, The congress passes the laws that set the amount the doctors will receive and Obama has not vetoed any increases congress has sent him. the rest that you claim about Obamacare simply is not true. These rumors have been going around in conservative circles since day one. I know of no other law that has had so much misinformation said about than this one

      • carolinerh

        Tell people under socialism and communism that Obamacare is good. Your ignorance is pitiful! Health care in their regimes is remarkably bad, slow, costly, and try and get your own doctor and care. Been there, done that and do NOT want to return to it. If you know anyone in Canada, Germany, England, again France, Venezuela, etc., you will be better informed at how lousy Obamacare or any federally supported health care really is. Also, remember that 40% who could have purchased insurance before, did not wish to. What we need is across the USA choice of insurances to bring down the costs. Remember, too, many doctors will leave the profession if Obamacare passed. Remember too that the death plan is included! Remember, there will be long waits or no way to get the care or appliance you may need (too expensive). Ignorance is not bliss. Go and read the Obamacare plan (assuming you can read). It has been online to read from many sources over the last couples of years and then you will see that it won’t fly. Taxes will be paid for 2 years before it kicks in and what will you be able to do during those 2 years but pay through the nose for very little in return. After 2013 comes in many more of Obama’s taxes on practically everything besides the air you breathe. Sorry, but you need a checkup from the neck up but remember that is NOT covered by Obamacare.

        • Smilee

          Have to give you full credit you got every far right lying talking point down pat. None of its true!!! I have relatives in Canada and Norway and they will tell you this is nothing by far right US BS

          • RichE

            Carolinerh,
            Plus, health insurance costs are going up and coverage is going down. Your choice is to wait in line for the next doctor or go on the dole because the health care is so expensive you can’t afford it. Hmmm, come to think of it you’ll be waiting in line for the next doctor regardless. Sorry, unless you’re in the 1% you don’t have a choice. Wait in line or die.

    • Gordon

      Get a clue people:
      First, few people have an understanding of what Romney Care WAS. His legislature overrode his veto of the law passed, and greatly modified it. Romney’s liberal successor modified it more.
      Second, Justice Robert’s swing vote saying this is a tax put the mess right into the Congress’s lap. The House voted it down, and when Reid allows a Senate vote they will too. Without Robert’s swing vote it would have stood as it was.
      Get a clue.

      • carolinerh

        Thank for stating the factual truths. Romney would keep parts of it as he did in MA. However, my personal feeling is NOT government healthcare coverage. Everything the government gets involved in costs more and doesn’t work. Just limited government with minimum involvement in my and my life, thank you.

      • Smilee

        carolinerh says:
        September 19, 2012 at 2:58 pm

        Cost more??? Medicare is run by the government and it plus a good supplement plan costs together about half of private insurance for the under 65 crowd. My premiums were cut in half and the coverage’s are better. No copays or deductibles and it covers more things than my group plan that I had before I retired and at half the cost. Does that sound like government costs more. That is pure BS. Their overhead is less that 8%, the private plans overhead was 25-40% but since that part of Obamacare took effect they are limited to 15% on group plans ans 20% on individual plans and if the charged more they have to rebate it to the policy holder which they are currently doing to the tune of several billion, Facts speak louder than rhetoric

  • THE HEALTHCARE MAVEN

    The only way to fix healthcare in this nation is to change the federal law so we can buy insurance across state lines & fix tort reform to lower malpractice payouts & insurance for doctors, as they have done so well in Texas. There has to be competition to drive down prices…THen & only Then, can you start to talk about insuring the millions stuck in the middle who can’t afford it!

    • Doc Sarvis

      I believe all of those were part of what President Obama wanted to do with his health care proposal but the conservatives would not go with it. To get the good things like not denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions, getting rid of the donut-hole for senior’s perscriptions, and allowing one’s children to remain on their coverage until the kids are 22 (?), the President had to drop those things.

      • Healthcare Maven

        WRONG,WRONG,WRONG…all those ideas I wrote were Repub. ideas & were shot down by Obozo !!! Remember the Tort lawyers are in bed with DEMs , heck many of the DEMs are or were Tort lawyers….To make an analogy, before any healthcare reform, you have to lower premiums or it will not work, but yet every thing O-Care does raises them, it’s like Immigration reform/amnesty, before you do that you have to secure the border, or else they will just keep coming, enticed by the reforms….Do you get it? This federal boondoggle will not work & the people who won’t be able to afford it will now also have to pay a “TAX”…& everyone else will suffer!!! INSANE!!!

      • Doc Sarvis

        No, actually I do remember President Obama saying he was willing to inact tort reform measures.
        As for the border, if American businesses didn’t hire illegal immigrants they would not come here.

      • Healthcare Maven

        Obozo says a lot of things, but his actions never match his words….all pols lie & distort, but he’s taken it to another level, but of course, he can with the media in his backpocket. Truth be told, it is a miracle that Romney even has a chance of beating Obozo.

        As far as Immigration, yes if we clamp down on businesses that would be good , too..soldiers on the borders, states like Missouri taking ALL benefits away would help…anything that would stop the flow is needed before Immigration reform is put in place…Of course, the DEMs would never go for it, because they would lose all these potential supporters!

      • http://Yahoo.com Abby

        Oamacare was written and passed by the Democrats, bypassing the House and the Republicans. Therefore, any changes to the law were done by the Democrats and Democrats only. Remeber the Presidency and Congress were all Democrat controlled for the first two years of POTUS reign.
        This admnistration says how it is helping the middle class where in essence it is destroying the middle class. Lies, lies, and more lies.

      • Joebob

        Now kids (adults) are allowed to stay on until there 26. I guess that’s because their unemployment rate is so high and they can’t find a job. That must be because this administration is determined to undermine the American people and continue to destroy any opportunity at jobs in this country. They intentionally regulate and put private companies out of business while arming government employees and placing their subjects on welfare. Sounds like 1937-1938 Germany to me.

      • http://www.robstgeorge.com Rob (StGeorge) Manwiller

        Doc, you are ill and need to see a doc. Remember Nancy “We need to pass the bill in order to see what’s in it” Pelosi? They passed this unread monstrosity behind closed doors without any Republican’s input, so none of them voted for it. Repubs had a compromise plan but it was Reid, Pelosi and Obama, the Three Stooge Commies, who refused to hear anything the Repubs had to say. You need to get out of the ‘political fog’ you’re in and get some help!

      • DaveH

        Doc Sarvis says — “To get the good things like not denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions”.
        That’s a good thing? So why would people buy health insurance at all, Doc, since they could just wait until something happened to their health and then buy it? What Health Insurance company would be able to stay in business with such nonsense? Of course the Progressives would like that, as it would then be even easier for Big Government to take full control of our lives.

      • DaveH

        Doc says — “No, actually I do remember President Obama saying he was willing to inact tort reform measures”.
        I doubt it. Can you back up your fabricated fact with some references, Doc?

      • Flashy

        DaveH…took two seconds … here’s a reference to his SOU Address 2011…from the Minneapolis Star…

        President Barack Obama gave a nod to supporters of tort reform during his State of the Union address Tuesday night. Even while defending his health care law, the president said he’d be open to “medical malpractice reform to rein in frivolous lawsuits.”

        Guess you couldn’t find it on Mises eh?

      • Doc Sarvis
      • Winddrinker

        Before obamacare this country had the best healthcare in the world!

        The democrats and obama decided the best healthcare system in the world needed to be changed! What needed to be changed was the insurance companies and their policies!

        Not one republican voted for obamacare! The dems totally own this monstrousity and everything that is in it. One item in the democrat’s healthcare bill funds is the civilian army, loyal only to obama, at a cost of nearly $700,000! This bill is not about healthcare, but it is about the usurping of total power over American lives by the government. So what if they threw in a couple of things just in case anyone starts asking questions…like coverage for the individuals with pre-existing conditions.There were already highrisk pools available to these people… And, no adult needs to be on their PARENTS insurance! Get out of your parents house and get your own life!

        Obamacare is unconstitutional regardless of what the turncoats on the supreme court decided.. The supremes haven’t stood behind the constraints of the Constitution for decades. Abolish a court where one supreme can make a decision for 300,000 people!

      • Kinetic1

        HMaven,
        President Obama tried over and over again to appease the Republicans. What started out as a universal care plan was diluted to answer the demands of the right. The public mandate was originally a Republican idea. It’s not even about money!, in 2009 Jon Kyl was quoted as saying that a revenue-neutral bill probably won’t get much GOP support either.

        I hear a lot of BS on this site about how Americans have always opposed Obama’s attempts at health care reform. It may be true today, but that wasn’t the case when it all began. Back in June of 2009, a NYT/CBS poll showed 72% of respondents in favor of a Public Health plan. 57% were willing to pay higher taxes to see all Americans insured. Only 30% +/- were “very concerned” about things getting worse if government run. A whopping 65% said that providing for the uninsured was more important than keeping costs down! Respondents even felt that the Government would do a better job of providing care and keeping costs down. That was 2009, when Obama was doing all he could to come to some sort of agreement with Republican law makers. That was before the conservative push to destroy healthcare reform, and Obama. That was before Frank Lutz advised the GOP to use the words “government takeover”, even though it was dishonest. That was before they bought into the big lie. As another poster said, people may say they oppose the healthcare bill, but they want everything that’s in it.

      • DaveH

        From Doc Sarvis’s link:
        “Obama said he wants the Department of Health and Human Services to encourage states to experiment with ways to reduce malpractice litigation. But he was sketchy about the details of the “demonstration projects” he has in mind”.
        Kind of like Flashman’s statements — Substanceless.

      • Doc Sarvis

        DaveH, I would think you would like that he is not dictating to the states on how to handle this. Would you prefer that he dictate???

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Ariviste

        It was not Obama who wanted us to be able to buy insurance across state lines. It was the Republicans. For an insurance company to remain in business, it must be able to make a profit. Insurance companies cannot make any money insuring people who they know are going to cost them major money. It may sound cold, but there should be other ways to pay for insurance for people with preexisting conditions. This is the same principle that auto insurance companies use when people are put on “assigned risk” policies. Children should be paying for their own insurance long before they are 26 years old. Parents should not have to foot the bill for children who refuse to leave the nest. There is no need to require insurance companies to insure those children. They need to get some type of job and pay for their own insurance. Obama’s solution to all the problems with the high cost of insurance is socialized medicine. If you think you are getting something for nothing, you are badly mistaken. You might just pay with your life or the life of a loved one.

    • Smilee

      THE HEALTHCARE MAVEN says:
      September 18, 2012 at 7:38 am

      The only way to fix healthcare in this nation is to change the federal law so we can buy insurance across state lines & fix tort reform to lower malpractice payouts & insurance for doctors, as they have done so well in Texas. There has to be competition to drive down prices…THen & only Then, can you start to talk about insuring the millions stuck in the middle who can’t afford it!

      RESPONSE

      Insurance companies right now and for a long time can sell insurance across states lines if they conform to that state’s insurance regulations what you are talking about is having the fed regulate and supersede the state regulations which most likely be little regulation and protections for consumers. Legal costs and malpractice awards amount to a little less than 2% of the total medical costs spent each year. It is a red herring and has more to do with allowing bad doctors to not be held accountable that it does with cost. Neither of your suggestions will do anything to make health are more affordable and in fact could make it worse. There are many who do not agree with you about Texas and many whom say it is worse now there.

      • DaveH

        Smilee says — “what you are talking about is having the fed regulate and supersede the state regulations which most likely be little regulation and protections for consumers”.
        Little regulation by the Federal Government? That’s a laugh riot, Smilee. We should be so fortunate.
        Superceding the state regulations by the Federal Government would actually be one of the few Powers actually allocated to the Federal Government under the Constitution. The greatly abused Constitutional Power to regulate Commerce between States was meant mainly for that purpose — to stop individual States from protecting their in-state companies with favorable taxes, regulations, and other protective laws:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dwrAFXEEN8

      • DaveH

        Here is that “little regulation” done by the Federal Government:
        http://www.scribd.com/doc/93023823/Wayne-Crews-10-000-Commandments-2012

      • rb

        Please show us the source of your numbers. I personally know many doctors who have never had a malpractice suit fiiled against them that would love it if only 2% of their income went to malpractice insurance.

      • Smilee

        DaveH says:
        September 18, 2012 at 9:52 am

        Here is that “little regulation” done by the Federal Government:
        http://www.scribd.com/doc/93023823/Wayne-Crews-10-000-Commandments-2012

        RESPONSE:

        I was only talking about insurance regulations not regulations in general, These regulations have been left up to each state, Congress could write law that overrides it but they have not as yet. You went way off on a tangent to the subject addressed and I will not go there after you

        rb says:
        September 18, 2012 at 9:52 am

        Please show us the source of your numbers. I personally know many doctors who have never had a malpractice suit fiiled against them that would love it if only 2% of their income went to malpractice insurance.

        Google it, I do not recall off hand but have read it in several studies and all agree on about this figure. Also many malpractice suits are settled out of court with the stipulation none of the parties reveal publicly the terms. Unless the doctor told you personally he could have been sued and you would never know, it happens a lot especially in clear cut malpractice that would prove embarrassing to them. I had a cousin who died in a hospital along with 3 others on the same night because of drug mistakes and we know there was a settlement but no one can tell you the details and if I would not know if not for my relationship even my relatives will not talk about the settlement as to it would jepordize their settlement.

      • Kinetic1

        Smilee,
        Banking and credit are allowed to cross state lines and the result is not competition, but the flocking of the banks to those states that are most lenient. The result is not better protections and rates for the American citizen, but a virtual usury tax on credit cards. Get behind a payment or two and see if you will ever be able to dig your way out from under 35% interest fees charged not only on the principle, but on the numerous fees tacked on to your account. Give health insurance companies the same deal and see just how bad it gets.

      • Smilee

        I agree

  • dogbreathu812

    I don’t consider Bill O’Reilly a “blowhard” as you say. He is a professional person with a professional opinion, as allowed in the 1st Amendment. Obamacare repealed would be just fine with me, however, we also need to put restraints on EPA, Treasury, DOJ, Homeland Security, IRS expansion, and remove restrictions that prevent us from becoming energy self-sufficient, to name a few. Executive Orders need to be abolished forever and the czars must go. We have gotten so far off track and been lied to for so long that, a large majority of citizens believe the bogusness of the “Demonrats”.

    • Doc Sarvis

      Your second sentence is true but that does not mean O’Reilly is not a blow-hard, which he is.

      • dogbreathu812

        One man’s opinion…

      • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com poorgrandchildren.com

        Count me #2 agreeing with Dos Sarvis

    • GregS

      Excellent points, dogbreathu812! I also agree that Bill O’Reilly is a VERY professional person with a LOT of VERY professional opinions. He’s witty and spot on, on just about all of the issues.

  • JustAnotherJoe

    Supreme Court Justice John Roberts ruled that Obamacare was constitutional, because he saw it as a tax. If that is the case, then Obamacare is still unconstitutional, as spending bills can only originate in the House. Whereas, Obamacare was first passed in the Senate. One would like to hope that would be enough to overturn the entire bill. However, when has any idiot in any of the branches of government ever bothered to follow that bothersome, outdated piece of paper called the “Constitution” and “Bill Of Rights”?

    • Healthcare Maven

      You make a crucial point, if it is a tax, the funding can be cut off by Congress, but it would never get past the Senate unless the Repubs. take it over in Nov. This is one way it could happen…the 10th Amendment people are great, but their way of NULLIFICATION will never happen!

      • Peter Sagi

        Obamacare is voluntary and ties into SSN use, which is voluntary. Read my other posts.

        Pete

    • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com poorgrandchildren.com

      Exactly what provision in the Constitution authorizes our DC employees to exact any tax for any reason?

      • Alan

        Article 1 Section 8 says:
        The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

        Now, one could argue that the current tax code is un-Constitutional because, the current tax code does not apply uniformity throughout the United States.

      • Smilee

        Alan says:
        September 18, 2012 at 9:02 am

        Article 1 Section 8 says:
        The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States

        Now, one could argue that the current tax code is un-Constitutional because, the current tax code does not apply uniformity throughout the United States.

        RESPONSE

        it says nothing about taxes just duties, imposts and excises but leaves out taxes

      • Alan

        The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes… Really? Unless I really need glasses that bad, in the very first sentence! collect Taxes means the Congress is the only ones with that power. Neither the Executive, the Senate, nor the judiciary has that power! Collect Taxes is right there in black and white!

      • Alan

        You confused me at first smilee… I now understand what you are refering to. Really, so do all States pay excise on Automobiles? Do all States pay Sales taxes? Those are duties, imposts and excises. Therefore, they are NOT applied uniformly.

      • Smilee

        Alan

        “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;” Congress has the power to but is not required to (general welfare and defense, the power to tax for the general welfare is what made the funding of Obamacare constitutional, the court so ruled).and the state can tax these if the Congress does not and to tax on things not denied the states by the Constitution but if Congress has the power then it trumps the states if Congress wants to. The tenth amendment makes this clear

    • Peter Sagi

      It IS, unfortunately, Constitutional, because it IS just another tax. that is about the only way they could have found it to BE Constitutional. Furthermore, as I explained in my somewhat lengthy post, Obamacare is 100% voluntary because it is part of a larger package that is 100% voluntary … participation in Social Security, medicare, and all the other “benefits” of employment such as minimum wage, equal opportunity, maternity leave, overtime regs, OSHA regs, etc. And all of that stems from SSN use on the job, which is, by law, and readily admitted by the Social Security Administration, 100% voluntary.

      Here is the bottom line … the govt. deliberately overlooks the fact that most folk are defacto forced into “employment” because the private sector by and large refuses to hire anyone without “employing” them, i.e., refuses to hire without an SSN. As far as the govt. is concerned, and in the legal sense, you freely and knowingly volunteered for Social Security/medicare/Obamacare participation. Unless that assumption is challenged first, how could the 9 learned Orangutans with toy hammers rule otherwise? In a sense, it would be like a Marine recruit attempting to take a case to the US Supreme Court to refuse orders to go to boot camp or get that famous high and tight haircut or complain that he was being forced into all that. Sorry, kiddo, when you volunteered at the recruiter’s office you volunteered for all of it. That is how the govt. sees it when you sign a form W-4, which the IRS admits is a “voluntary withholding agreement.”

      The IRS USED to admit, in their publication 515, withholding requirements for non resident aliens of the United States, on page 2 and later on page 3 … and this was based on the tax codes, i.e., US Title 26, with language taken from same … that a “citizen or resident of the United States” need only provide a signed written statement to that effect to his “employer” and his “employer” would be relieved of any and/or all duty to withhold any taxes. This was in a section discussing backup withholding for people NOT providing SSN’s, most usually this would be non resident aliens, i.e., in the US less than 181 days and therefore not in resident status yet. Such a person would be liable for the tax regardless of no SSN use, and withholding would be REQUIRED, not voluntary, and at a higher rate. Pub 515 went on to state that the employer should retain a copy and a copy should be sent to a particular IRS office in Philladelphia PA only. BUT …

      A funny thing happened in 1998. The IRS was facing a requirement to put all their forms online, and, had they just done so as they were back then, they feared that this and a few other little tell tale signs would be given away, which would spoil their game of clouding the exact nature of the tax and how liability is incurred, allowing people to easily side-step it. So Congress staged a dog and pony show, trotting out the usual collection of little old ladies who had doors kicked in by IRS thugs. This provided cover for the IRS to scramble all their info prior to being forced to put their publications online. Gone was the explicit reference on page 2 and later page 3 of pub 515. Nevertheless, SSN use is still voluntary on the job as far as any law goes, and with that Obamacare.

      Pete

    • Smilee

      It did originate in the house passed and sent to the senate whom amended it on these matters, which is legal, passed as amended and then sent back to the house whom voted on it and passed it again. I know about the law suits saying this but they will get no further that the birthers law suits because they are both frivolousness.

      • Peter Sagi

        Smilee … to reply to what you said to another post of mine … my personal situation … I trade online. I do NOT use an SSN. Instead, I go thru a corporate entity, an LLC that is held by an unicorporated business trust organization. I have no relationship to the brokerage, which refuses to do business without a taxpayer ID number. The brokerage has the taxpayer ID number from the LLC only, and is happy with that. The LLC is a flow thru entity for tax liability purposes, but, since the holder is a NON taxpayer, no liability is incurred. Nor do I incur tax liability personally because all I do is sell my intelectual property to the corporate entity in the form of timed advice as to when to buy and sell currency pairs. In exchange I am remunerated. Nothing I do requires the use of an SSN or other taxpayer ID number, therefore I don’t use one. Nor is there anybody insisting that I use one where there is no legal requirement. I take the IRS at their word regarding forms W-4 and/or W-9. There is no report generated in the form of a W-2 or 1099 that I have “income” and I don’t hear from them, period.

        What you seem to not understand about the IRS is that it only deals with taxpayers, not NON taxpayers. Taxpayers are those who incur liability for a tax under Title 26. If you incur no liability you will never hear from the IRS.

        What you seem to not understand about the income tax is that it is an excise. The US Supreme Court has stated that the income tax is an indirect tax, an excise, which is a tax on privilege. It is only MEASURE by the income derived FROM a privileged activity. To give you an example … suppose that it was a long, long, time ago, before all these rules and regulations. You and I are out on the ice on a lake in the middle of winter, fishing thru ice holes in shacks. You can fish by right and keep as many fish as you like. But suppose that I am not as good as building shacks or cutting holes in the ice as you are, and ask to fish out of your fishing hole in your shack. If you agree, could you not therefore charge me a tax for the privilege? You could require every 4th fish I catch, or charge me by weight at the end of the day, or say I can catch and keep all that I want after I give you the first 5 fish that I catch. Regardless, is the tax on the fish? NO, because I can go elsewhere and keep all the fish that I catch if I build my own shack and cut my own hole in the ice. The tax is on the privilege of fishing out of your fishing hole. Now do you get it? The question you need to ask yourself is what are you doing to fish out of a federal fishing hole? The answer is employment as opposed to mere hire, and the difference is in use of an SSN.

        Use an SSN and fail to pay, and, yes, you will hear from the IRS, and they will do everything in their power to jack you around and shake you down for money, and when done with you, turn you over to the state taxing authorities and they will shake you down for more money still. But no SSN use and you are fishing out of your hole, not theirs, and therefore you don’t exist as far as they are concerned.

        Pete

        • Smilee

          Nobody really cares Pete

      • Peter Sagi

        Nobody cares? Perhaps you are right. Cows don’t seem to care where they are going when they are walking up the chute to the slaughter house, they are too busy following the herd. Sheep don’t seem to mind being clipped. I guess its not to far a stretch to imagine that idiotic, fluoride poisoned, mercury laden vaccine poisoned, [expletive deleted] at McDonald eating, beer swilling, TV sports mainlining Americans really mind being clipped by the IRS when they don’t have to be. In that case, they should enjoy their Obamacare.

        So tell me, Smilee … do you work for the IRS or are you just a TSA-hole?

        Pete

      • Peter Sagi

        Nobody cares? Perhaps you are right. Cows don’t seem to care where they are going when they are walking up the chute to the slaughter house, they are too busy following the herd. Sheep don’t seem to mind being clipped. I guess its not to far a stretch to imagine that idiotic, fluoride poisoned, mercury laden vaccine poisonds slopt4diet at McDonald eating, beer swilling, TV sports mainlining Americans really mind being clipped by the IRS when they don’t have to be. In that case, they should enjoy their Obamacare.

        So tell me, Smilee … do you work for the IRS or are you just with the TSA groping granny’s for a living?

        Pete

        • Smilee

          Neither, just keep on talking to yourself as it seems to do the trick for you, some of us think your words are pure garbage.

      • Peter Sagi

        You seem to care, though. First, its you may be right, but, in theory only. Next, you are going to jail, seeya in 20 years. Next, nobody cares. Now, you say my words are garbage. But you seem to care, otherwise you wouldn’t keep coming back for the last word. Are you an Obama paid troll or something?

        Bottom line … this was a discussion on Obamacare. I seem to be the only one here raising the most fundamental issues with it … that it really is just another tax, that the tax is just another excise on the exact same liability, namely “employment,” that working for a living and “employment” are not exactly the same and that it is possible to side step it all by working without being “employed,” and that the difference between “employment” and mere hire is SSN use. That is true, you know it, you can’t attack that, so you resort to the usual nonsense arguments … you are full of beans, you will go to jail, etc.

        The most fundamental thing about Obamacare is how liability for it is incurred in the first place. Once that is understood it can be avoided. The answer to Obamacare is full disclosure regarding SSN use, in plain language.

        Pete

        • Smilee

          Another full load of BS from petey

      • Peter Sagi

        Once again, you prove my point. Nothing to say but “bull,” no counter arguments, no nothing. But you have to get the last word, don’t you.

        Pete

  • wolfgang

    With Obamacare, EVERY business in America is going to be required to purchase health insurance for all of their employees. Most, if not all small businesses are not going to be able to afford it. When 2014 rolls around, watch how many people are going to get laid off and the unemployment rate skyrockets.

    • Doc Sarvis

      I am pretty sure it is only businesses who have over a certain number of employees will need to buy healthcare for them. Not every business in America.

      • soldier

        Oh ok, so only 5 million laid off in 2014 instead of 10-20 million. Its like being excited that only half your house burned down instead of the whole thing.

      • Doc Sarvis

        soldier,
        Where do you get your figures that 10-20 million will be laid off in 2014? And how do you figure that is because of the health care requirement?

      • soldier

        I pulled those numbers out of the air just to make a point. The bottom line, by your own admission, businesses that employ over a certain amount of workers will have their costs go up. When costs go up, businesses typically save by laying off workers. So big biz will lay off. Rare is it that senior leadership takes a pay cut. Sure, if a CEO reduced his or her pay by half, thousands of peons could keep their jobs. But that never happens. Kind of like how it never happens that our Der Furors limit their own power and behave angelically.

      • Doc Sarvis

        soldier,
        I think you pulled them from somewhere else. Anyway, good employers have been issuing health care benefits for a long time. Even some non-profit groups issue health care benefits. With health care costs coming down in the future (see: http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/105327/cbo-obamacare-deficit-medicaid-expansion-cost-revenue-exchange# ) that will make it even more reasonable for employers to do so. In the future, you would be wise to not rely on “thin air” or your darker regions for information.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Ariviste

        I believe it is all businesses that employ more than 50 people. That is a lot of businesses. They will either lay off employees or they will only expand up to 49 people. Either way, people lose jobs.

    • Healthcare Maven

      This 2,700 pages of Insanity, is a major reason why businesses are not hiring people…a recession was not the time to do this anyway & the way it was done broke so many parlimentary rules to even get it to vote..the whole thing up to the violation of his oath by Roberts was a disgusting, repulsive assault on our system of checks & balances & Constitutionally protected freedoms!!!

      • Peter Sagi

        Yup, it’s crazy. But its also 100% voluntary because it ties into SSN use, which is 100% voluntary according to the Social Security Administration. Someone can be hired without being “employed” which means with an SSN. See my other posts.

        Pete

      • Smilee

        Bull, it all stems from lack of demand and so many of our population having so little income that the demand is low. If there was demand and a profit to be made from it this bill would do nothing to prevent them making that profit. What you suggest is that until they get their way we are not going to play. With no demand they are free to use this as a red herring. When demand returns they will again hire and pay the health care, just wait and see.

      • Alan

        The problem is Constitutional Lawyers… How about we hire a Doctor or an Engineer for once…. Maybe then we’ll finally return to some form of good governance.

    • Peter Sagi

      No business is required to have employees though. A business can hire people without employing them. The difference is SSN use on the job, 100% voluntary according to the Social Security Administration. No SSN use, no liability incurred for FICA, payroll tax, medicare tax, federal income tax, state income tax, local income tax, or Obamacare. WITH SSN use, liability is incurred for all of that along with withholding requirements and compliance with tons of other garbage.

      The answer is a full disclosure law … i.e., a full disclosure of all terms, conditions, rights waived, power of atty granted, and liabilities incurred anytime anyone anywhere for any reason asks for an SSN. Said disclosure to be both oral and in writing, initialled off point by point, signed by both parties, witnessed by three witnesses or a Notary Public.

      Pete

      • Alan

        I see where you are going, Pete! Keep ringing the bell, maybe they’ll get it?

      • soldier

        LoL!!!! Yeah right. I have heard that our tax system is supposedely voluntary also, but given that our government doesn’t follow the law anyway, I think its just a matter of time before you expierence a direct assult because you don’t have a SSN. Soon, everyone will be expected to aquire the mark to be able to buy and sell.

      • Alan

        And Soldier, what makes you think the Mark isn’t already here?

    • rb

      You are almost correct. Obamacare forces every business above 6 employees to buy health insurance for their workers….unless they have received a waver from the Federal Government. Unions will not be forced to participate and will keep their own plans without the Federal mandates….Large corporations such as McDonalds have already received waivers because it is too burdensome for them to comply with. You have to see the fine print…Everyone will be required to participate…..except the ones deemed “priviledged” by our government and are specifically exempted from having to comply. Once again heir leader is deciding which businesses will succeed or fail based on heir leaders choices not the free market.

      • soldier

        “Large corporations such as McDonalds have already received waivers because it is too burdonsome….”

        Gee, I wonder why. I can’t tell you how many times I have ordered the 20 piece chicken mcnuggets and not gotten 20 nuggets. Count everytime you purchase. You will almost always get 18-19 nuggets.

      • Whit
      • Winddrinker

        Sounds as if the only people that are left on obamacare are to be the hard-working grunts in the middle class, and companies owned by conservatives.

  • robbiefine@hotmail.com

    I don’t get the Republican opposition to Obamacare. Romney brought it in first when he was governor and the individual mandate and other aspects were Republican ideas long before Obama was President. Republicans only went against it when Obama put those same ideas forward. It’s all nasty politics and a bit of racism and resentment to boot. Not to mention hypocrisy. But it is fun to see these folks complaining so bitterly about their very own ideas and things they used to praise!

    • Healthcare Maven

      You use the word “IDEAS” about Repubs.& that is what is was at the time. not something set in stone, I think they realized they were not good ideas & certainly the way O-care uses them is absurd, and to blame racism, is pathetic…why can’t a half black man be a complete boob, too, like the majority of our pols on each side? As far as Romney , he ain’t no true Repub. or Conservative, truth be told, i don’t know what he is…but he beats Obozo!!!

      • Smilee

        Your wrong it is law in Mass. and this law was first developed and proposed by the Heritage foundation and pushed by the GOP minority at the time as an alternative to the Health care proposal pushed by Clinton. Neither passed because the polls showed that then that the vast majority did not want it as they thought their health care choices would be taken away from them which was not true but the lobbies got their way on both.

    • Peter Sagi

      Obamacare is voluntary because it ties into SSN use on the job, which is 100% voluntary by law, see my other posts.

      Pete

    • Jeanette

      You’re sure that there was no conservative objection to government healthcare? (Romneycare) I’ll bet there was plenty; you just weren’t looking in the right places to see it.

    • rb

      You stopped being credible when you threw the racism thing in there.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Ariviste

      Didn’t you hear Romney say that it did not work in Massachusetts and if Obama had asked him he would have told him it didn’t work.

      • Smilee

        Do you mean he said it worked before he said it did not work. You know he is the master flip floppier don’t you

  • RichE

    Can we afford health care?

    • Doc Sarvis

      Yes!

      • Winddrinker

        We cannot afford government-run healthcare!

      • ObamaTyranny

        No! We cannot afford any form of any more government lead, but massively budget failing, socialistic entitlement programs. Take a look at all the current failing programs not only in US, but abroad. Do we really want to follow the footsteps of European Socialism that is driving virtually all nations in Europe into bankruptcy? Sorry Doc, but I believe – based on your comments and the persistent frequency of them – that you are nothing more than one of the Soros paid or Obama commentary implants. I ask you, Are you ready for the Obama promised “improved” coverage by a bunch of horse doctors? Two doctors I know have who returned from the latest state license renewal stated that Veterinary doctors were being trained to fill in for the anticipated massive departure threatened by doctors should Obamacare become fully implemented. I hope you get the pig doctor to treat you when it is all said and done – unless we get this piece of government (cram down your throats) trash out of here.

      • RichE

        Proving affordability would increase support.

      • Doc Sarvis

        The Congressional Budget Office just published a newly updated estimate of the Affordable Care Act and its impact on the budget. The estimate largely tells us what we already knew: The law, when fully implemented, will dramatically reduce the number of Americans without health insurance. It will also reduce the deficit.

        From:
        http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/105327/cbo-obamacare-deficit-medicaid-expansion-cost-revenue-exchange#

      • DaveH

        Doc takes the word of a Federal Government agency as Gospel. That’s a joke. Time will tell, and I know where I’d bet my money — Less Healthcare at Greater Costs, but those costs will be difficult to quantify as are most costs when Government becomes involved.
        The truth is that every silk purse, that Big Government gets its mealy hands on, is turned into a sow’s ear. It’s inherent in the process. Governments spend money politically, unlike Free Markets which spend money based on what the consumers really want and will pay for. And Government employees have nothing to lose when they’re wrong except perhaps some nagging by their superiors, unlike Private Sector businesses who have everything to lose if their customers go elsewhere, so there is little incentive for Government employees to perform efficiently or to please the consumers.
        As Governments Grow, Economies Slow. See here for proof of that:
        http://heritage.org/index/ranking

      • momo

        Doc Sarvis says:
        September 18, 2012 at 9:40 am
        The Congressional Budget Office just published a newly updated estimate of the Affordable Care Act and its impact on the budget. The estimate largely tells us what we already knew: The law, when fully implemented, will dramatically reduce the number of Americans without health insurance. It will also reduce the deficit.

        The report states that 84 billion will be saved over the period of 2012-2022, that works out to 7.63 billion per year. As the feds now spend about 10 billion per day, that 7.63 billion of savings won’t even cover one day of federal spending. Big reduction, Doc.

      • Winddrinker

        Obamacare inflates the cost of healthcare and then adds another 50-Million to the program. You don’t add that many people to a socialist healthcare program and lower the cost! That couldn’t make sense even to a koolaid gulping lib.

        Then again, it might work, if they use the death panels and rationing to get rid of Fifty-Million sick and elderly citizens.

        NO, that still wouldn’t work because the government bloats all costs with their built-in waste and corruption!

        Face it, there is no doubt that obamacare will end-up being a wasteful but lucrative way for government to drain the country of its assets.

      • ObamaTyranny

        Let me add a few direct expenses to seniors.
        Another of our great Messiah’s lies is: No one with income less than $250,000 will see additional tax. Lie, Lie, LIE! Since when did your property become a part of Obama Care. 2013! Another reason to expunge this dictatorial, pathological liar in chief from office.
        Did you know that if you sell your home after 2013 (conveniently taking effect after the elections) you will be taxed an additional 3.8% sales tax. That is $3800 per $100,000 dollar value of your home. Were you aware of this robbery about to take place? Well, guess what, a lot of congressmen – who didn’t read Obama care before voting – don’t know either. I propose you make them aware immediately.
        ( http://www.gop.gov/blog/10/04/08/obamacare-flatlines-obamacare-taxes-home) This will especially hurt the older generation downsizing for retirement. Obama care does nothing but “screw” the older generation.
        Aside from the above, here are a few ways.
        1)Initially 500 billion (now estimated closer to 700 + billion) was robbed from Medicare to make Obama care superficially look “balanced”.
        2)As a result Medicare coverage has been diminished. This hit me personally. I normally have a test conducted twice a year. As of Jan 1 2012 it was changed to annually. Three weeks after I would have normally had my six month check up, I was hospitalized. It would have been caught in advance if not for the diminished coverage directly caused by Obama care robbery. My cost after coverage was $9000.
        3)AARP is all in favor of Obama care. Why? Because diminished Medicare coverage means cost of secondary coverage must be increased to fill in for what Medicare no longer covers. Another added cost to seniors.
        4)Increased SS deductions for Medicare coverage. Again because of Obama care theft from Medicare. Did anyone see that their medicare deduction was increased in 2012? Most people did not because it was offset with a SS monthly increase that virtually equaled the increased deduction for Medicare. But, that will not continue for long. That deduction is set to double by 2014 (another convenient after election bombshell). Can fixed income seniors really afford this? I think not.

  • Peter Sagi

    If you have an ugly wart, the only real solution is to gouge it out at its root. If you just skim the surface, it will grow back. The same can be said of Obamacare. It is an ugly wart on the body politic, and, in order to remove it and have it NOT grow back, it needs to be gouged out at the root. At the root of Obamacare is the New Deal socialism going back to the FDR days, and that means eliminating that mother of all social programs, Social Security. And before anybody gets huffy reading this, thinking that I advocate turning little old ladies out on the street … read further.

    Social Security was sold to the public as a form of social insurance. The public was told all about trust funds, retirement accounts, annuities, etc. In fact, none of that ever existed. When challenged up to the US Supreme Court, the attorney’s for the govt. said that it was none of those, it was just another tax with funds going to the general treasury of the United States. Nobody was guaranteed a benefit. Any “benefit” was merely a handout, the same as any other welfare program. Congress could abolish benefits, tax benefits, alter benefits, raise retirement age, establish means tests, etc. Nothing could stop that legally. A lot of folk have heard all this and understand it to be true, and go along with the system regardless. But perhaps that is because they haven’t heard the rest of the story.

    If you have an SSN, you are eligible to receive “benefits” from the federal govt. and this makes you a subject of the federal govt. instead of a sovereign over it. Your status is that of federal employee legally for executive orders, and when working, you are first and formost a federal employee on the job. It is as if the federal govt. is your temp agency that you go thru to work for your local “employer.” The federal govt. can’t just barge into a private contract between you and the company you work for, but they can be INVITED in. It is thru this invitation that you are the “beneficiary” of minimum “wage” laws, maternity leave mandates, OSHA regs, overtime regs, etc… all the “law” that applies to “employment” in its legal definition. All that applies via use of an SSN on the job. In addition, you authorize withholding for FICA, the employer incurs liability for payroll tax since he has hired a federal employee. Medicare tax liability is incurred. So is liability for federal income tax. Since there is a reciprocal taxing agreement with the states, the states can tax the same liability, hence liability for state and local income taxes are incurred as well. Obamacare is simply one more tax that liability is incurred for via “employment” as opposed to mere hire … the difference is use of an SSN on the job. It is that simple.

    There is one final thing about Social Security that most people, including most lawyers, simply do not understand, don’t get, doesn’t compute … but the Social Security administration will admit this in writing if asked, email or snail mail, ssa dot gov … and that is having and using a Social Security number is 100% voluntary and not required to live OR WORK in the United States nor is it required to have just for the sake of having. In theory you are supposed to be able to get a job without an SSN. A few have by educating the companies they work for, but this is rare, most usually corporate Amerika insists upon an SSN and makes believe that it is somehow a government requirement when in fact it is simply their company policy, based most usually on ignorance, fear, and listening to accountants and lawyers who believe that is what the law requires when there is no such requirement by any law, with the SSA admitting to the voluntary nature of the program/SSN use. Again … no SSN use, no liability incurred for Obamacare.

    So am I saying that we need to pass a law to get rid of Social Security? NO!!! The law to pass is one that would require full disclosure anytime anyone anywhere for any reason asks for an SSN. The full disclosure should be in plain language, understandable at the third grade reading level most beer swilling sports fans are dumbed down to. The disclosure statement should fully disclose all benefits guaranteed (none) all powers of attorney turned over or implied, all rights waived, and all liabilities, including tax liabilities, incurred. The statment should be both written and oral, initialled off point by point, signed by both parties as well as three witnesses or a Notary Public. This should even apply to the most casual request, such as on a form at a the office of a dentist or chiropractor. The effect of the law would be to eliminate all casual requests, and cause companies that hire to fully disclose that their insistence upon an SSN is the result of their policy and not any law. Companies that stopped insisting on an SSN as a condition for hire would be more competitive, since they would no longer be hobbled by payroll taxes or Obamacare mandates.

    Pete

  • Stonewall

    To repeal a Supreme Court ruling, republicans can even repeal the right for life act; Let alone the care act. Sometime you just have to go about in a different way like the 5 things listed above. Or look for the Peacemakers Bill and turn it into an ACT and as Bill O’ Reilly said, “get all of them liberals out

    • Peter Sagi

      Obamacare is 100% voluntary because it is contingent upon SSN use, which is 100% voluntary according to the Social Security Administration. See my other posts.

      Pete

      • Smilee

        Pete

        If you refuse to buy health care insurance tell me how your going to get out of paying the penalty SSN or no SSN

      • Winddrinker

        Sure obamacare is VOLUNTARY! That is why the IRS is going to be the enforcers of the laws and new taxes within this 2700-page monsterous bill. Since it passed, there has probably been another 5,000 pages added to it. Piglosi said that the bill had to be passed before anyone could see what was in it.

      • Peter Sagi

        Here’s to Smilee and Woodsumthinorother … SSN use via form W-4 or form W-9 IS VOLUNTARY IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN ANY OF THE STATES FOR CITIZENS OR RESIDENTS. You have a right to work. Use an SSN and you exchange your right to work for the privilege of “EMPLOYMENT” which has a specific legal definition, whereby you are going thru the federal govt. as if it was your temp agency. What would have been a two party contract between you and the outfit that hired you is now a 3 or more party contract. The federal govt. demands on your behalf minimum “wage”, equal opportunity “employment”, maternity leave, overtime regs, etc. and other mandates. They would have no authority to do this save for the invitation of you and your “employer.” This is how you incur liability. No SSN, no liability incurred. The liabilities incurred include FICA, medicare, employment tax, federal income tax, state income tax, local income tax, and Obamacare, which is considered just another tax. All of these apply to EMPLOYMENT, and not to mere hire. EMPLOYMENT means SSN use, with the exception of non resident aliens, i.e., here in the US less than 181 days. No SSN use and you will NEVER HEAR FROM THE IRS SINCE YOU ARE A NON TAXPAYER, NOT HAVING INCURRED LIABILITY FOR ANY TAX UNDER TITLE 26. Remember, the income tax is a form of EXCISE TAX, similar to a stamp tax on booze. If you don’t bottle booze you do not incur liability for the stamp tax. If you have no “income” as per definitions of Title 26, i.e., do not engage in taxable activities such as “employment” you will not hear from the IRS. That includes Obamacare. The IRS never deals with NON taxpayers. Get past your brainwashing. The issue is simple. Anytime there is a question of a tax, you must first ask upon what privilege am I being taxed. Once properly answered, you can then either participate in the taxable activity or not, your choice. But don’t be confused about it.

        Pete

      • Smilee

        Peter Sagi says:
        September 18, 2012 at 10:58 am

        How long to you think you will spend in jail if you follow the path you say you can. I am sure it is only your rhetoric and not what you actually practice. If you go to jail will see you in about 20 years.

      • Flashy

        Smilee…how much do you pay for health insurance per year? Now, if you don’t have it…how much is the penalty? Yes…you finally figured it out. The penalty is less than the cost of insurance. The penalty is to help pay for freeloaders when they do seek health care and assist those who cannot pay for insurance.

        So…tell us how you are ‘penalized’ for not carrying insurance?

      • Smilee

        Flashy says:
        September 18, 2012 at 12:54 pm

        I do not see it as a penalty either but that is what some called it but the court said what ever you call it, it is a tax and I think they got that right.

  • Winddrinker

    First thing Boldin does is compare the use of Executive Orders by the foreigner and GW! That makes all else he writes “suspect!” There is no one that has ever abused or usurped more power than the self-annointed, foreign dictator that squats in the oval office.

    I do agree that there needs to be a huge change in the way Executive Orders can be used. This regime has become nothing less than a dictatorship. Congress has become more “mice not men, following their “Pied Piper!” The use of Executive Orders should be restricted for use, only in very specific national emergencies. These should be laid-out clearly and not left to interpretation by the progressives.

    Secondly, Boldins Number Five should be his Number One! Far more people will opt for Number Five than the other four ways. People sit and talk, hoping that the problem will take care of itself. This large group of Americans that “talk the walk” are not likely to get up and help solve the problem. They just want to tell others how they should do it.

    As for the courts ever ridding us of this monstrous piece of legislation, we might as well ask Tinkerbell to sprinkle her “fairy dust” on it and make it go away. The Supremes have shown where they stand. They have been compromised and no longer serve this Nation or adhere to the Constitution. NO ONE should ever be apppointed FOR LIFE to any offical position! Why anyone would think that a “lifetime appointment” eliminates corruption is quite interesting to ponder. It is obvious that it does NOT.

    Government spawns corruption. The voting process will never rid us of corruption that has evolved over nearly a hundred years. Many could say that total corruption, began when congress agreed to the contract that resulted in the formation of the Federal Reserve Bank. We must have a country that own its own currency before we can be considered a free people. We, citizens of these United States, would have to purge Washington and go back to a constitutional government. No president elected through the corrupt nominating committees would ever abolish the Fed. This is one of the first things that needs to be done to once again have a free and properous country.

    Boldin is correct when he says that we do not need to REPLACE obamacare with another government-controlled healthcare program.. Government needs to get out of the way and let the private sector provide care. Government with its bloated-costs, corrupt politicians, and its inefficient agencies cannot compete with privately-run institutions. Government needs to be limited to its constitutional duties, as outlined in the Constitution!
    And, just as important, make the lobbying of government officials a crime! Get big business out of government as well!

  • Frank Mlinar

    Keep it. Beef it up.

    If Republicans would report fairly on it, more would want it. “Death panels”? Please.

    • Doc Sarvis
    • DaveH

      When Government starts running out of other peoples’ money (and they will), who will decide who gets the scarce life-saving medical resources? A panel of “experts” of course. Thus that panel will have the power of deciding who lives and who dies — a Death Panel.
      How did we end up with this mess in the first place? Big Government meddling of course. What is their solution for us? More Big Government meddling. That will be Big Government’s solution until the voters get their heads out and start voting for Freedom.
      http://mises.org/daily/2285

      • DaveH

        The only political party that will actually work towards shrinking Big Government dramatically:
        http://www.lp.org/

    • Winddrinker

      You are blind to the facts because you REFUSE to see them.

      Healthcare will be given to those deemed “worthy.” Agenda 21 talks about death panels and their desire to eliminate those deemed to be useless. This means that the State isn’t going to carry any “dead weight!”

      When a person has become useless to the State, they will be eliminated. The best way to reduce the need, of a government-controlled population,is to ration food and medicine.
      Government will decide the rules by which healthcare will be provided and government officials will carry them out, it won’t be healthcare providers or families that will be making these decisions. If someone is a libility the chances of that person getting care would be slim, whether it is because you are ill or because you are old ( or maybe even because you are White.)

      We are facing the greatest change that our country has ever seen! It would be a change totally against the things that has made America great. Of course, that is the intended purpose..

  • Karl Landgren

    Obummer”care” is a grotesque misnomer; a travesty; an abomination (Obama Nation);an affront to our intelligence; a flagrant disregard for the will, needs, and rights of Americans; an assault on an already teetering economy, & a clear usurpation of power. 1)Barry, Harry, Nancy, and their accomplices used no fewer than eight bald-faced lies to try in vain to sell us this diabolical bill. 2)It is riddled with sinister provisions. 3)It clearly violates the spirit and the letter of our Divinely inspired Constitution, which is the Supreme law of this hallowed land. 4)It doesn’t protect patients, is anything but affordable, and has nothing to do with caring. 5)It was protested more vigorously and persistenly than any bill in my memory–perhaps in our nation’s history. 6)The Marxist–who was not and is not eligible or qualified to hold the presidency (regardless of where he was born) for numerous reasons– misappropriated sacred taxes to bribe or blackmail senators to violate their conscience &/or the voices of their constituents. 7)It would add dozens of layers of bureaucracy to an already top-heavy, cumbersome Big FedGov hydra; and thousands of IRS agents to an agency that is far too intrusive. 8)It is monstrously complex..Do we need a bill that is longer than the combined Old and New Testaments detailing how Big FedGov is going to do what is unathorized to do in the first place? 9)It provides for te complete takeover of student loans. I foresee at least two huge potential–indeed, almost inevitable problematic outcomes resulting from this ostensibly unrelated matter (e.g. see Reagan’s not-famous-enough1961 radio address!) 10) Not a single traitor who voted for this bill even claims to have read as much as half of the bill; nor is even one of those enemies willing to subject him/herself to the heavy yoke that the bill burdens us citizens, er subjects

    Our selfless Founders and all the noble patriots who fought valiantly to secure the blessings of Liberty must surely be weeping. This illegal law MUST be completely uprooted

  • Jeanette

    The IRS will be administering ObamaCare. The whole middle class could lose their homes waiting for it to collapse.

    • Smilee

      The IRS will be collecting the penalties but has nothing else to do with the bill, so many like you do not understand this bill but still make all these off the wall statements.

      • Winddrinker

        And, you are saying that YOU understand this bill and all its implications?

        I want the healthcare that obama, congress, and government employees will have!!
        If obamacare isn’t good enough for them, it isn’t good enough for me!

      • Smilee

        Winddrinker says:
        September 18, 2012 at 11:00 am

        They will be buying from the same pools, Obamacare is similar to what they have had in the past, they picked from a pool in the past and paid about 25% of the premium, their coverage’s were little different that what most corporations give their employees, Some corporate plans offered are even better, mine was before I went on Medicare when I turned 65. My Company no longer offers that plan but a plan that you pay more for in copays, deductibles, out of pocket maximums and premium share. Them having a much more superior plan was just so much rhetoric and little different than in the Corporate world.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      The IRS? That means our health is determined by an accountant, not a doctor.

      • Peter Sagi

        The IRS only deals with “taxpayers” as per the legal definition of that term. Cease being a taxpayer. How? Cease particpating in activites that are taxable for revenue purposes. Huh? How is that possible? The answer is make a living from activities that are NOT taxable. Huh? How is that possible? By understanding the tax codes and its limitations.

        Bottom line … SSN use is voluntary on the job, the SSA says so, ssa dot gov, write them and ask. No SSN use means no converting an ordinary economic activity into a privileged one which means no tax liability incurred which means not hearing from the IRS which means no liability incurred for Obamacare. It all ties into SSN use, and that is VOLUNTARY BY LAW. True enough, most corporations only offer “employment” which means SSN use as opposed to mere hire which does not. But nothing is stopping you from doing your own thing.

        Pete

    • Peter Sagi

      Stop being a taxpayer, stop SSN use, stop volunteering.

      Pete

    • Flashy

      The IRS will not be administering health care. Jeesh…is that all you guys do is sit around and make this stuff up ?

  • DaveH

    Bill O’Reilly is a pin-head.

    • boyscout

      Ha Ha Ha DaveH, you must be in a generous mood today to shower that talking head with such a compliment.

  • Muldonney McVriw

    I agree with Doc Sarvis, but O’reilly is not only a blowhard, he is a pumped up pompous popinjay
    with notions of self importance beyond the pale; he peaked years ago on INSIDE EDITION.

  • jopa

    The picture at the top shows a lady holding a sign stating” I don’t want to die on a waiting list”‘If Romney were elected there would be no list she would just die.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      What do you think Obama will do? He’s all for euthanasia and abortion. How old and healthy are you? Will you die at the hands of government. Something to think about. Believe me, I think Romney and Obama are the same.

      • Flashy

        “What do you think Obama will do? He’s all for euthanasia and abortion.” CA…what do you have to prove this statement? Other than it being false…I’m curious as to how you came about to think lying will serve a purpose …

    • DaveH

      I can’t wait for the Government Leaders, who send our soldiers to fight and die for the benefit of the bankers, to make my health care decisions for me. I’m sure they will be looking out for my best interests.
      http://i.imgur.com/u6uKN.jpg

      • Flashy

        DaveH…please tell us how government leaders will make your health care decisions for you…other than keeping you from leeching off the rest of us and requiring you to have health care insurance….

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    The problem is, many well meaning people will take up on Obamacare at first. People don’t look ahead while dainties are thrown at their feet. It will take sacrifice to straighten out America’s problems but who wants to sacrifice? Romney was picked ahead of Paul because Paul in his message eluded the sacrifice while Romney’s still selling a dream.

    In 1870, Germany’s Chancelor Bismarck introduced a form of Obamacare to the country. There was some people who saw the dangers but by enlarge the people loved it. They got the sniffles? Go to emergency room for free. Things that home care would cure were taken to emergency rooms. Economically it started to tell on the economy. Eventually doctors realized they worked for the government, not their patients. What the goverment said is what counted. Medicine was rationed. The age of people determined the care they received. People were looked at as assets and liabilities. Before Hitler came to power the government was determining “if life was worth living”. That’s where we’re headed but do enough of us care, now, to do something about it?

  • michael

    repeal & replace applies to the income tax not to obuma i couldn’t care less.

  • http://speedle speedle

    Okay, Mr. Boldin, you have outlined all the strategies that won’t work in getting rid of Obamacare, but you failed to bless us with the framework for a plan that will work (other than more slogans and placards). Perhaps it would be good if you did a bit of homework regarding exactly what kind of program most of us want to replace Obamacare.

    “Repeal and replace” is actually the best flag to rally around if you understand what you are using to replace. I happen to be in the healthcare financing business, and that gives me considerable insight into the location of the dead bodies in this fray. Indeed, there is a framework for going forward that has as its foundation a few key basics:

    Restoration of the patient/doctor relationship

    Reinventing “health insurance” as true insurance and not a financing vehicle

    Removing the element of “third party management” (both government and ins. carriers)

    Using federal tax credits and vouchers for indigent care

    This type of real reform has to have as its basic premise the removal of the government and the insurance companies from the everyday business of the delivery of healthcare. We start with that and work out the details. The battle will be (as usual) in weaning an entitled public off the notion that individual healthcare is someone else’s responsibility.

  • Pingback: Top 5 Ways To Fail At Eliminating Obamacare « dajeeps

  • DaveH

    We need a handyman to fix things:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIhhGyRWnew

  • Franklyn Molina

    So, the writer is saying that there’s absolutely no hope in getting rid of Obamacare. We’re doomed…

  • raw

    Romney CREATED 0bamacare, don’t look for ANY administration to do away with it. It’s here to stay. TAKE CARE OF YOUR OWN HEALTH & don’t rely on the gov’t to fix you.

  • Christine H

    We have the worst 17th worst healthcare system in the world and the most expensive. Open more medical schools so our factory workers can work here for a decent wage. Working 8 hours a day for $50,000 a year would be a wage I would be happy with. Train more PA’s and nurses. I have 3 nieces who could not get into nursing school because not enough teachers but we bring in 100,000 nurses from the Phillipines. Get rid of insurance companies as only exchanges and have policies across state lines and a single payer system as an option so insurance would have to compete. I Employers provided insurance for years until all the jobs left the country. So, I for 1 support costs across the board as I am ithe miidle class. My sister went bankrupt and got the worst care imaginable. Health care in this country sucks. Prevention is not even on the scope. Drug companies making us sick with their toxic drugs. Food is our medicine and The Chinese are certainly healthier than us. My Sister is now seeing a chinese practitioner and finally after 2 years is starting to feel better. Obama care is a good beginning. As for it not being better…Republicans got in there and messed with the positives like single payer option. I am tired of word entitlements. I love having good roads, fire protection and all that goes with a functional government for the whole. Health care is broken and at least we are starting to fix it. Private did not work. They are too greedy.

    • MarathonMan

      I understand your situation and you are not alone.
      Our family has been hit hard on the economic and social levels too.
      As you probably know, Obamacare is active now. As of Oct 1, senior citizens will be denied therapy after surgery. Our local community hospital is laying off 175 nurses and reducing service at the hospital. However, they have added hospice “beds” in preparation for the “end of life” death panel referrals.

      That glitter of hope that you perceive as Obamacare may not be what you think it is.
      No question health care needs reformation and the first step is to get government out of the health care business. The federal governments record is abysmal on everything that it manages. We are becoming more and more dependent on the Federal Government and ultimately will become their “financial slaves”.

      Consider this; the same people that created the health system care which is the problem today, are the same people that are “fixing” it again with Obamacare.

      Heed the words of Thomas Jefferson:
      “I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”

    • DaveH

      Christine says — “I love having good roads, fire protection and all that goes with a functional government for the whole. Health care is broken and at least we are starting to fix it. Private did not work. They are too greedy”.
      Good roads, fire protection? Both could be done better, more cheaply, and more considerately by the Private Sector which would not be a monopoly, would not have the power of Force, and would be subject to competition.
      “Private did not work”, Christine, because it has NOT been private for at least the last 100 years. Government has been meddling with Health Care ever since the AMA was created:
      http://mises.org/daily/3793

  • Lawrence

    First of all, the republicans are only interested in getting power. They will never do anything to reduce the power of government. They have always since 2010 had the power to stop these power grabs and did nothing. Face it. We have lost our republic to a fascist dictatorship and will never get it back Learn to live with it as the Italians and Germans did.

    • MarathonMan

      Lawrence:
      You say: “They (Republicans) have always, since 2010, had the power to stop these power grabs and did nothing”. This statement is inaccurate. The republicans have not had “the power since 2010″. They (Republicans) have control of only 1/3 of the current governing body since 2010.
      While “progressive” socialist government takes us down the road of perdition, Americans are not Italian or German in spirit or conviction.
      Unless you are already a Federal Government minion, be a patriot, stand up against the progressive liberal philosophy that defines the democrat party.

      • nc

        MarathonMan, let me show you how the “socialist Democrats” have lead us down the road to perdition. Type in “Bulls,bears,donkeys and elephants” and/or “presidents and prosperity”@ forbes.com and study the charts!
        Remember that since we started to rise to the position of number one nation in the world ,1865 at the earliest, and have remained there, we have had only two parties govern this nation, Right??

        If you can find some figures for the Republican Party administrations that match those of the “socialist” Democrat Party at these sites please, please, please print them! Conservatives who have studied these figures have “spun” them be REPUBLICAN FIGURES(?) even though they were from Democrat Administrations BUT not once have they been able to supply a different set of figures! They can spin them but they can’t match them with republican figures!
        Not to mention the “socialist” Democrat party leadership through the two World Wars and the highth of the Cold War!
        Is there another nation that you can think of that has offered it’s people a better chance in the last century? People are flocking here for a reason! It might be over your head but they can see it! After all, you don’t not have to speak English to be a genius!!
        Go looking for the figures! The cites I gave or any sites that can be believed and see if you can beat the figures of the “socialist” Democrats with Republican figures! We are NUMBER ONE IN THE WORLD IN SPITE OF hoover, nixon, and the bushes of the Republican legacy!!! Waiting for your figures!!!!

  • Whit
    • Smilee

      It the exact same method Bush used to tell the public about the Big changes to Medicare in 2004, it is nothing new and has been used many times for a variety of reasons, but your source wants you to believe this is an Obama creation when it is not.

  • Brenda23

    So while everyone is busy focusing on the Obamacare and on that only; Obama is busy laughing as he sneaks Executive Orders through taking away our very freedoms. He pretty much has sewn up the election, regardless if Romney actually wins. The WH has too many gays supporting Obama and he will make himself King of America. Sad, but true.

    • nc

      Brenda23, you are so right about what is going to happen and here is what you need to do to join those who believe the same thing. You need to buy a case of beans, two hundred guns, go into the desert, dig a hole, crawl in and wait for the end! Don’t look out because that Kenyan Muslim will catch you and eat your head off! Some of your more paranoid neighbors may come out at night and play “Take the White House” or teach the three year old to shoot a machine gun. I would like to tell you they are harmless but they are not! OR YOU COULD SEEK COUNSELING FOR YOUR PARANOIA BUT YOU WILL HAVE TO QUIT WATCHING FAUX NOISE TO BE CURED FOREVER! THEY SHARE YOUR PARANOIA AND ARE PAID TO BE BIASED! NOT A REAL GOOD PLACE TO GET THE REAL NEWS! THIS SITE IS NOT THE PLACE EITHER!!

  • pun

    Seemingly absurd, seemingly nonsensical acts of today politics are parts of a 1000 Piece Jigsaw Puzzle handed down by the World managers to participating governments.

    Pieces fall in place randomly, where and when an opportunity presents itself. The separate parts might not work, until the complete mechanism is fully assembled. That is a fundamental sign of an intelligent design, a result of artificial intervention, interrupting normal evolutionary process.

    Postpone evaluating an element’s expediency, until you see the whole structure.

    I lived in Soviet Ukraine for 30 years and recognize the model by its features.

    The Collectivism only works, while dissent is being continuously suppressed by every mean possible: dumbing down, deception, fear, propaganda, Mainstream Media hypnopedia, indoctrination, re-education, falsification, extermination (sixty million death in 70 years of Soviet Union alone) …

    In the words of Solzhenitsyn: “If we could only know what they had prepared for us at GULAG, we would meet KGB at the threshold of our houses with every sharp or heavy object we could put our hands on …”

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    RED ALERT!!! NEEDS VIRAL NOW!!!! OBAMA SIGNED NEW ORDER FOR COMPLETE CONTROL!!!! YouTube

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpChoYgRaKs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS IN AUSTRALIA

    Hate to tell you guys who cant see the wood for the trees…but the more you push this nonsence the more votes Obama will get. Republicans shot themselves in the foot the momement they kicked out Dr Ron Paul and chose pretty boy Mitt Romney.

    Mitt Romney is right to say that 47% of the voters dont pay taxes and wont vote for him, but he probably dont know that another 20 % of people like him dont pay tax either and the rest who do pay taxes dont want to pay tax either. He was right to advise his potential financial benefactors that he needs to focus on winning the votes of the independents we in Australia call them the swinging voters because if he can convince them and not enrage many of the 47% who are unlikely to vote at all….then he can win the election. Its a pretty simple summation of whats going on. even if my percentage numbers might vary from the exact.

    This type of politics is how it works in Australia with the two major parties having their loyal followers no matter what happens…but its the swinging voters who ossilate between the two major parties and the Greens 10% who control the end result and thats what they do…the major parties bring in policies which might hurt their loyal followers just so they can win the swinging independent voters. End result we have two parties one which is a socialist party named the Labor Party who claim to look after the workers and the poor and middleclass poor and the Liberal Party who call themselves a Free Enterprise Conservative party for business and less government, but in actuality are a socialistic quasi fascist government who keep the socialist taxing policies in all States they win government in as well as Federal government to keep taxing the haves to pay for the poorer middle classes who claim to be the have nots.

    The end result is that those with assets will always pay taxes whether under Obama or Mitt should he win….the reality is that Obama is telling the truth to the richer that he will increase taxes but Mitt is lying to most of the rich that he can even offer lower taxes but if he wins he will try to favour or influence the decisions for his rich benefactors by giving them government contracts so even though they might still have to continue paying more taxes their business revenue increase with new contracts will more than make up the increase in taxes they will be paying.

    So there you have it, if your not a large financial supporter and Mitt wins you will still pay more taxes to pay for both your poors food and lodgings and to pay interest on your nations borrowings. The same applies in Australia.

    The other important issue for Mitt Romney…is that his supporters dont upset or enrage many of the 47% before the election who might be ordinarily too lazy to vote….the question is can you people control yourselves ??? Now i’d like to send you my political advice bill worth $10,000,000 but who do i send my account too?

    • RichE

      Why are we paying thief’s to steal from us.
      It doesn’t matter whose president, the government spending will increase. I was thinking about Mitt until he said he’d increase military spending and keep Social Security the same. This only means bigger government. Add on jobs program funding and the only way Mitt can balance the budget is fire all the ear markers. If Mitt’s willing to take the job for a dollar per year and put all of congress on a dollar per year I’d vote for him.

  • 1776again

    I GUESS WE RETIREES OF A COUPE OF GENERATIONS BACK ARE THE ONLY ONES WHOSE SOCIAL SECURITY CARD SAID ” HIS IS NOT TO BE USED FOR IDENTIFICATION.”

    ANOTHER GOVERNMENT LIE ! NOW THEY HAVE GONE EVEN FURTHER WITH THEIR SPYING NSA, UN INTERNET CONTROL THAT OBAMA IS DETERMINED TO GET PASSED TO IN ORDER TO LEAVE US WITH SMOKE SIGNALS AND MAYBE CARRIER PIGEONS TO COMMUNICATE.. . BUT GOD HELP YOU IF TOU WANT TO GET INFORMATION THAT ‘S BEING USED AGAINST YOU.. , AS NDAA EFFECTS, …TOO BAD, YOU ARE JUST A DUMBED DOWN SLAVE, PRODUCT OF THE UN WORLD GOVERNMENT EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.

    We do need 1776 again, or we might as well help them put the rope around our necks, and tie it. I love my country, but I hate the PTB (Powers That Be behind the curtain, who are insatiable control freaks that can’t live without another war, and killing off 80% of the population, etc. These folks use counterfeit “money” around the world with their RESERVE worldwide cartel to bleed the world dry. It is NOT a conspiracy theory; it is a fact, by their own admission. AND THEY PAY LOBBYISTS TO WRITE LEGISLATION THAT NO ONE READS, AND THAT LEGISLATORS NEVER READ, WHILE LEGISLATORS ARE ACCEPTING MONEY FROM LOBBYISTS TO VOTE ON EVERY BILL THAT GOES THROUGH OUR LEGISLATIVE SYSTEM. THE REASON THEY DEVELOPED A “CONFIDENCE INDEX” IS THAT OUR SO-CALLED CURRENCY IS BACKED SOLELY BY “CONFIDENCE”, WELL NAMED AS A REAL “CON JOB”.

    . ( See Quigley, Clinton’s “mentor”; they have put it in to action bigtime a long time ago. It is UN Agenda 21 ( xcuse for it is “sustainability” in action, using ICLE I locally all around the world , so they can control (their term) the “global commons” (air, water, all things and animals and everyone and everything on earth) ! WHAT AUDACITY !

    GET THE H… OUT OF THE U.N. AND SAVE THE COUNTRY BEFORE IT REALLY IS TOO LATE ! IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHO IS ELECTED; THEY ARE ALL UNDER CFR ETC. CONTROL. JUST ASK RON PAUL .

    • Peter Sagi

      Yes, I remember that on the socialist slavestate number card, from the slave enumeration bureau. I am coming up on 60 soon enough. Interestingly enough tho … the generation of my parents, who lived thru the great depression and the FDR year … seems that they are all dyed-in-the-wool New Dealers, and they never seemed to figure out the status they gave up to obtain that stinking 9 digit number which has followed them around since, and followed me around since signing mine at age 7 when my mom handed it to me. She NEVER knew any better, and I certainly didn’t at the time.

      You mentioned the UN and the CFR. The CFR is a policy debate club, the UN is the receiving corporation for various bankrupt and in receivership corporate entities around the planet otherwise known as countries, the US included. That is pretty much all sewn up and beyond your control. What IS within your control tho is whether or not you are a human resource asset of one of those bankrupt and in receivership municipal corporate entities such as the United States, and that has to do with your use of a socialist slavestate number. The good news tho … you only THINK that the socialist slavestate number is YOURS, when it is not. It is THEIRS. Furthermore, it doesn’t even attach to you personally, it attaches to an express trust entity also known as your “person.” It is a legal fiction, you are NOT a legal fiction, you are real. This legal fiction has a name similar to yours but it is spelled in all UPPERCASE. Look at your SSN card, your driver’s license, checks from your bank account, credit cards, birth certificate, and any court documents you may have ever been served. You need not remain ignorant and play by their rules. You can either walk away from the trust entity, collapse the trust entity, or file a lien against it and make it work for you and not them.

      The best video to see to get started is Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception, viewable for free on youtube, just google it. Also google Winston Shrout for more info.

      Pete

  • Albert W. L. Moore, Jr.

    ObamaCare? What ObamaCare?
    It was not signed into law by a President.

  • GregS

    In the above article, Michael Boldin writes:

    “Here at the Tenth Amendment Center, we’ve offered our own advice on what to do next.”

    Mr. Boldin, I live in the state of lousy Democrats, crooked Governors, and Chicago politics. Yeah, that’s right: Obummer’s home state. And you think that your “Federal Health Care Nullification Act” has even a snowball’s chance in hell of getting passed in my state???

    Mr. Boldin, here’s a news flash for ya: Ain’t gonna happen!

    Your article fails to address the following two realities:

    1. In November, it’s either Obama or Romney.
    2. If Obama wins, ObamaTAXCare will become a PERMANENT entitlement.

    I’d rather take my chances with Romney and a Republican-controlled House AND Senate. At least, with that scenario, we’d get MOST of ObamaTAXCare repealed, and then deal with rest later.

  • Llew Abd Gid

    Pete –

    I just want to respond, before I go progress any further into this “rabbit hole” of learning…
    You are awakened, my friend, and I respect the things you have posted… we need more awakened minds such as yours! I am totally amazed at the depths of the perpetuation of lies within this country, (that is this “receivership corporate entity” ;) but I suppose from “their” standpoint, these lies are only a mere necessity and a tool to help bring them closer to achieving their ends…which they appear to be pulling off “masterfully” (though this is surely a jolly sounding word to express the plans of these global oligarchs–in a sort of sinister way, it could be quite fitting…)

    Though things look pretty gloom, I always want to hold onto that hope…and in part–it is the hope you described (/prescribed)… it is the Hope that we can grab onto in a personal way–though we may not bring down their whole NWO “engine”, we “…can either walk away from the trust entity, collapse the trust entity, or file a lien against it and make it work for you and not them.” (your words) We can still resist! (summed up)

    I may be asking you for more info, but for now intend to watch the video and Google the Winston Shrout character… peace and blessings man! Keep that Fire of Resistance going–we will need it in the times ahead!

    -Llew

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