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Tom Ridge: Northwest Airlines Bomber Does Not Deserve Constitutional Protections

January 4, 2010 by  

Northwest Airlines bomber does not deserve constitutional protections, says Tom RidgeIn a TV appearance last Monday night, former secretary of the Department of Homeland Security Tom Ridge stated that the alleged terrorist Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab may not be eligible for certain protections afforded by the U.S. constitution to its citizens.

Speaking on CNN’s Larry King Live, Ridge stated that in his estimation Abdulmutallab’s status as a foreigner and a would-be terrorist may limits his constitutional rights.

"He’s not a citizen of this country. He’s a terrorist, and I don’t think he deserves the full range of protections of our criminal justice system embodied in the constitution of the U.S," the former official affirmed.

However, not everyone shares this view. Cynthia Tucker, a columnist for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, stressed the danger of alienating moderate Muslims by adopting this type of approach.

"Affording the protections of our Bill of Rights to suspects such as Abdulmutallab [shows that we] believe in human rights and the rule of law," she wrote in a blog on the newspaper’s website.

"Keeping moderate Muslims on our side is a much better way of fighting terrorism than trying to kill every terrorist," she added.

On Christmas Day, the 23-year-old Nigerian man was able to board a Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Detroit with an explosive device sown into his underwear. This happened despite the fact that his family had alerted the U.S. authorities to his possible radicalization and despite being on a terrorist watch list.

Responsibility for the failed attack was claimed by Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, a group White House officials say includes two former Guantanamo Bay detainees.
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  • Bryant M. Poehler

    No terrorists or any non US citizen should have any constitutional right. Constitutional Rights are for American citizens only. Any terrorist should be shot on sight. That is what they would do to to any foreigner, or anyone who went against their government. Give them a taste of their own medicine.

    • drselley

      Cynthia Tucker wrote: “stressed the danger of alienating moderate Muslims by adopting this type of approach”. CT should think of the life she would have under Sharia Law after moderate Muslims cave to extremist such as the Taliban. No Job, No rights, no education cannot go out without family escort. Better start thinking of yourself instead of moderate Muslims whom care nothing about you!

    • USPatriot

      Yes, and wouldn’t that include someone who falsified information to become president and isn’t even a citizen and never has been?

      • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

        Are you talking about b”H”o???

      • http://aol.com Dolores

        The sstatement about not being an American citizen shows a great deal of ignorance on the part of the writer. In that case, we can say that you aren’t an American citizen either because the real Americans are the Native American Indians. This country was taken by brutal force by the White Race that came from England & Spain. The Indians offered peace, and teaching how to grow crops such as corn. They got paid back with the Bible being misused and a gun along with biological warfare e.g., using blankets infected with Malaria and T.B. that was given by these Europeans. One can tell you hate the president. But it’s a fact that he’s American and 50% White as well as 50% Black as his mother was White, his grandfather and uncle that’s living is White. You can’t get away from that. I’m sure you probably would do to him what was done to John Kennedy and Lincoln if you could get by with it. It’s sad that America has so many hate-mongers like you who have the audacity to try & tell other nations what to do. Any American with good sense wouldn’t want anything bad to happen here; however, that’s no reason to lie about the president. Go get some intelligence before you attempt to be intelligent.

        • DaveH

          Dolores,
          What kind of intelligence would lead you to think the Native Americans practiced no violence on the Whites? Were you there? I believe in many instances that White men spoke with forked tongues, but to think that all Native Americans were pure of thought is pretty naive.

        • vrwCHENEY

          dolores,
          every land,counrty,continent has been conquered time and time again throughout history mostly by brutal force by eliminating the native people….duh. however i dont fully disagree with you….another thing about BARRY being a citizen,from what i have found and read he should? be a citizen but….how much research have you done?? none?? im sure….the question that exist is he entered this counrty on a visa in “81″…why do you need a visa if your a citizen ??? and he recieved and accepted funding for school because of the forien visa student grants ???? why??? is the question that is to be answered…besides he really is and surrounds himself with whacko’s…damn open your eye’s and look for answers rather than makeing decisions based on emotions and feelings….facts are truth and this man sucks on so many levels….he sucked as my state senetor and as a u.s.senetor and now as president…

        • Joe H.

          Dolores,
          Blankets infected with Malaria and TB?!?!?! first malaria is spread by a female anopheles mosquito and T.B. by cough, drinking or eating after one who is infected!!! What you are trying to mistakenly cite is when they were traded blankets infected by chickenpox!!! The Native Americans had no natural resistance to it and it killed all or at least most who came in contact with them!!!

          • coal miner

            Joeh,

            It wasn’t chicken pox,it was measles and you are right about Malaria.

          • Joe H.

            coal minor,
            yes I confused chickenpox and smallpox, but a great many Native Americans died of chickenpox as well simply because they didn’t have any natural resistance to it. The Europeans had natural resistance to it through birth, whereas they didn’t as it was never on the North American continent!!

        • Michael J.

          Dolores, I would like to see if you defend with as much zeal, the next white Republican presidential candidate who may also have dubious credentials as a result of the precedent set by the current Potus.

    • Curtis

      Umm… doesn’t the Declaration of Independence state that “…all men are created equal…”?? I didn’t think there were qualifications on “all men are created equal”. Did that mean all white men? Did it mean only American men are created equal? Was it just Christian men are created equal? I think it is a mistake to reduce America to a muslim state where different people are entitled to different treatment. That’s what makes America great, all men (and women) are created equal. All men are presumed innocent and entitled to a FAIR trial. Stop playing word games with the term “enemy combatants”. You either rise to the level of a great country like founders saw the USA could be or you sink to level of every other banana republic or islamic country that has different meanings and levels of justice. It’s your choice. You either believe in due process for all or you don’t. BUT, you can’t pick and choose who gets due process, it’s an all or none proposition. There’s either one set of laws for ALL people or you’re not America anymore. That too is totally up to you.

    • Dolores G

      I agree completely. Our US courts are for US citizens only. Anyone that isn’t a citizen that tries to kill or injure Americans in anyway especially through terrorism on aircrafts should be immediately put into the Military courts like the prisoners of Guitmo. That facility was designed to house prisoners of war from any war to keep them away from the general public and away from the press who always seem to publicize in a biased way about supposed miss-treatment of prisoners that don’t deserve the coverage. They are enemies of the US. As long as we have troops in foreign countries that are in combat, this facility should stay open. These prisoners should be tried in a military court as usual and sentenced. Those sentenced prisoners should be kept separate from the un-convicted prisoners and both types should stay there in prison until their prison time is over, if there is a time limit on imprisonment. If they are to be executed, do it in a proper and customary time frame. No usual citizen rights should be extended to them and never, ever, be tried in a US court under US laws for regular criminals. I have heard that the only reason Obama is wanting them tried in a US court is because he would have to sign the execution order if found guilty. Giving them US attorneys who are offering them citizen rights is against our Constitution plus transferring them to a US court, especially where the attack happened, is unconscionable. This will put all of the victims and families that were not killed in this attack will have to relive the event plus the media circus that will be present during the trial and give the terrorists a venue for speaking up against the United States. New York already suffered a horrific loss of human life and property that has coasted the families, the city, and the state, an unbelievable billions of dollars and now they’ll have to pay again in policing and riot control from either the citizens, from persons that sympathize with these terrorists, and the possibility of an attack of the area or the court which would add insult to injury, as they say. This is a cop-out for Obama and against the American people. I don’t think that there is anyone who wants to see this take place inside of our U.S. borders. This is another reason, plus the evidence of Obama bowing to Muslim countries’ leaders, that he has a distain for our country. Who other than a Muslim who hated the United States would attend a church where the preacher, Reverend Wright preached his hatred of America and the whites for 20+ years? There is a difference between greeting these Muslim leaders as a courtesy and bowing to them which is not proper for a US President. That is why he keeps showing his Muslim background and his usual refusal to put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance. His changing the Presidential seal is another defiance of US customs and is a slap in the face of our country and flag. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a Duck, IT IS A DUCK! He walks like a Muslim, talks like a Muslim, and acts like a Muslim regarding our rights and walks all over our Constitution. Obama and the Democratic Party are taking away our liberties, printing money like there is no tomorrow, devaluing the dollar, indebting us to a communist country that doesn’t allow it’s citizens proper rights and who is already buying up other countries’ natural resources and in no time if Obama keeps printing up more dollars, we will lose our sovereignty and become the United States of China instead of the United States of America. Talk about a wolf in sheep’s clothing. We love our country, our constitution, our freedom of speech, and free from socialism which Obama himself has stated that he believes in. Wake up America before we are no more! God Help Us!

    • John Hasse

      Nonsense! What you call ‘constitutional rights’ are actually rights given each person by the Creator/Savior YAHUSHUA, and no one should have the power or authority to take them away. If he is guilty, he should be hung promptly and effectively (without years of legal games that only make lawyers rich.) If he is innocent, he should be freed promptly following a fair trial. If basic rights can be taken from one person, each of us is less secure in our ‘rights’.

  • Connie in Texas

    Wouldn’t a “moderate Muslim” side with the American people enough to recognize the diffrence between a legal citizen’s rights and that of a foreign terrorist? Is our justice system so unusual or so hard to comprehend that a person looking on cannot acknowledge the fairness of it?

    When will our government be as concerned with the “feelings” of the American people who are living with the threat of terror attacks as they are with the “feelings” of the rest of the world?! Has this administration forgotten that our president is the president of the United States—not the world-at-large. I’d like to see more commitment to the rights of this nation.

    • Jana

      Connie:
      A lot of the Moderate Muslims do recognize and side with the American People, but they must do it privately because they are, in a way, trapped by culture. If they speak out too much, then they will be chastised by their fellow Islamist’s that are not quite so moderate. Chastisement can even lead to death. The women of Islam are not allowed to speak out. They are nothing more than servants and most cannot go out of the house without their husbands permission.
      I agree that our Government should be concerned more for our safety than for the Constitutional rights of our enemies.
      These people are not citizens of our country and should not be afforded the same “Rights” as us, the citizens.

      • Claire

        Jana: you are correct about how they treat their women. However, Muslims in America will have to prove to me that they have America’s best interests at heart. I think I may have edited too many books on terrorism. But I have read and learned enough that that I think we all must be careful.

  • john

    Since Eric Holder has already given the 911 terrorists these rights and is going to have them tried in civilian court I think the precedent has already been set.

    • Dave

      As John says, the prescedent seems to have been set and sadly I think that is true, but then it can be unset too! The over riding clear as daylight point is that the protections afforded in the U.S. Constitutions are for citizens of the United states. They are NOT for citizens of other countries, friend or foe. Those people are citizens of whatever contry they are from and if they violate our laws while here they should be either expelled out right or tried, as in this case, as terrorists and war combatants under militarry court. The act was an act of war and does not belong in a civilian court.

    • Claire

      I don’t even want to hear the name “Eric Holder” anymore. I don’t want to see his face in the newspaper, TV, nothing.

  • wayne

    As a native Georgian, I can tell you that Cynthia Tucker is to the far left on any issue you could name. Down here, we ignore anything she says or write.

    • vrwCHENEY

      amen…shes a disgrace….god willing if the south doesnt rise again we will loose our country.

  • Robert

    This administration and the Democratic politicians will make it very easy to allow a major terrorist attack in this country before the Novemeber elections. This way, the President can declare martial law and suspend the Novemeber elections. Guaranteeing Pelosi and Reid stay in power and the Democrats retain control of both the Senate and the Congress. Most Americans will have their guns confiscated and then this administration can declare the US Constitution and Bill of rights null and void. Hence, King Obama will reign over us evil Americans. Get the picture?

    • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

      ROBERT! YES, I GOT THE PICTURE! ANARCHY OR DICTATORSHIP??? THAT IS THE ONLY “CHOICE” ACCORDING TO THE HISTORY OF MAN AND THAT’S NOT GOOD!

      • http://www.interislandfrontiermission.com Gilbert

        Victor, imagine if you will what has happened in the last few weeks following the terrorist incident of the Northwest Airlines. Anyone travelling to the USA has to spend more time with security than ever before. I was travelling before this incident and so have not experienced what it is like in the airport but from friends who have to go to the USA, their experience have all been the same, they waitin line for at least 4 hours before going through security and being screened. All this because of a failed terrorist that was allowed through from Amsterdam who did not require screening passengers on the plane as thorough as it is here in our country.
        I live in Canada and the prospect of just flying to any US state is becoming unattractive. Aside from the financial surge of airfares, we still have to deal with the way we pack and bring our baggages and summon enough energy to go through the sweltering suffocation of security in the Airports. That is indeed an affront to our democratic way of living in this day and age. I submit that we should have this rectified if we can.

        • Jana

          I live in the States, and feel the same way about traveling by Air. It is a major hassle.
          I think we need to start profiling and do random searches as well. The searches should be done privately though, not out in the open.

          • Robert

            Just shoot to kill any Arab or Islamist right on the spot. Sooner or later, there won’t be any of those A_ _ holes left to go to an airport and we’ll all be able to go back to normal. That’s what was suggested to Obama by his Homeland Defense Czar. You know the one who said the system worked fine but it’s Bush’s fault anyway.

          • DaveH

            If I had my way, carefully screened and trained civilians would be licensed to carry on the airplanes (concealed preferably). That would supplement the Air Marshalls. Yes, some passengers might get shot accidentally if a terrorist did try something, but that would be a lot better than losing the whole airplane full of people.

    • LindyMaeUSA

      Well Robert my dear, I for one absolutely BELIEVE your “prophecy” is RIGHT ON!

      However, I’ve observed ALL the government crooks are “in” on this agenda; the Republican Rats AND the Degenerate Democrats!

      THAT’S WHY those crooks and thieves are still doing their dirty work behind our backs, like: signing and amending Laws “without our knowledge or permission.” And WHY are they doing such traitorous acts? . . . because they KNOW THEY CAN!

      I don’t watch the slime-bag news, especially if Reid or Pelosi are shown because that unmistakable SNEER on their face keeps signaling: “I don’t now, and never have given a flip about any of you stupid-jerk voters who think you have POWER . . . you can’t touch me next November!”

      TIME WILL TELL us, won’t it!!

    • http://aol.com Dolores

      What about George Bush? He got us in this mess to start with. He lied about Weapons of Mass Destruction, he allowed Dick Cheney to run the government, he put us in an awful financial state. If America keeps doing the criminal things that the Republicans did, then we need Marshall Law. We’re on the verge of Anarchy anyway: We have illicit sex-life courses being taught in our schools, we have Gays getting married when the Bible says it’s wrong and we have the Conservative Republicans helping to destroy America with its hatred of the presiednt and the spreading of vicious lies. We have Republican Representatives like Governor Sanford with his illegitimate affair, Glenn Beck with his lies on t.v. and Sean Hannity advocating hateful things about the president. Karl Rove is always saying mean things against the president.
      No one complains aboout what the former president did to get us in this predicament. Look at how many American soldiers have died since he landed on an aircraft carrier and said the war had ended.

      • Jana

        Delores:
        There was plenty of complaining when Bush was President. However, in case you haven’t noticed we have turned the page and have had a new President now for a year.
        Obama is now responsible for the running of the Gov’t and he is not doing a very good job, even though his and your mantra is “Blame it all on Bush”.
        We all get that you are against the Republicans. Thank you but again, we have turned the page and for the past several years, (since 2006) the Democrats have been in charge.
        Come on now, breathe slowly and open your eyes.
        Oh, by the way, Gov. Sanford is not A United States Representative. He is a Governor, and his state is taking care of him.

        • Joe H.

          Jana,
          Ask Dolores to name say three lies that Beck told and prove them lies!!!

      • DaveH

        Nobody complains about Bush? What planet did you come from? We are drowned in Liberals complaining about Bush as if he were still President.
        And you know what Dolores? That man Glenn Beck that you say is a liar did plenty of Bush-bashing when Bush was President. He isn’t president anymore. Get over it.
        By the way tell us some of those lies by Glenn Beck. I get tired of hearing Liberals accuse him of lying. Give us some instances.

      • vrwCHENEY

        he never lied??? the world lied along with bush…hell i heard saddam say himself as does akmawhatever in iran. you spew ignorant rederick for the dumb massess because its easier to be ignorant than educated…which are you??

        • Joe H.

          vrwCHENEY,
          Read a little better, he was talking about Beck not Bush!!!!!

      • Joe H.

        Dolores,
        I hate to inform you dear lady, but Saddam killed 12,000 of his own countrymen with GAS which in case you didn’t know IS a weapon of mass destruction!!!! Also, in a country that is dam near nothing but sand, you could hide almost anything!!! It’s possible Elvis, as big as he was right before that fateful day could be living very well beneath all that sand!!!

    • vrwCHENEY

      lol…hey, what if he’s right???

  • Dale

    Appeasing terriorists or anyone destroys the rule of law. Why do you think we are where we are today regarding terriorist attacks? Being soft and “politically correct” invites terriorist attacks and those, including Cynthia Tucker need to wake up and realize this. To her I say, tell me how many terriorists have been brought down by moderate Muslims? All the leftists are inviting attacks on our homeland by being soft and giving away our right to people who are not American citizens. It is time to stop all the government corruption and take our country back!

  • Michael Hendry

    This is a back door way to aid and comfort the enemies of the United States and the world. Let me make this clear when you aid and comfort our enemies that is treason. Like the Rosenburgs the Electric chair!

    • Curtis

      Julius and Ethel Rosenburg were both born in New York, which makes them American citizens. Are you saying the Detroit Airplane bomber is entitled to all the rights an American citizen is entitled to before a US court of law? I mean, you’re comparing apples to oranges here, I’m not exactly sure what your point is?

  • wayne

    rOBERT IS ON THE RIGHT TRACK. Where are all our ethics committees? We haven’t seen outragious bribes and failure to obey federal laws? Why are these people allowed to sit and vote? Where are th recalls and impeachments? The whole washington club needs to be ended. See their last pay raise for what? They are not capable of controlling them selves. We should be starting in our own states. The states started the federal government they can control it. The states can make constitutional ammendments without federal. Congress cannot even control Obamas czars, why should we pay? They haven’t done anything as Obama give country to international police? Exec order 12425, we just sit here somebody needs to do something.

    • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

      OUR ONLY “CHOICE” IS IRAN? DEATH ORDERS FROM THE COMMANDER AND CHIEF!!!
      THE MARXIST CONTROL THE HOUSE, SENATE, WHITE HOUSE, AND JUDICIARY!!! HISTORY SAYS THAT THEY WILL NOT WILLINGLY GIVE IT UP, USING FORCE WHEN NECESSARY!

      • LindyMaeUSA

        The “FORCE” is coming, Victor . . . they’re just waiting for “the signal” to begin!

        • vrwCHENEY

          cute name…i hope your a girl.

    • Jana

      Wayne: The head of the Ethics Committee was Ten Kennedy. So ethics must have died when he did. Hmmm, I really never understood how he got that position. How ironical. Maybe the Government never had much ethics. In fact I am sure they had very little, and a lot less now.

  • Ox

    Robert definitely sees the over all objective of our far left leaders.
    Like C Tucker , who has her head in the sand, wants to protect the same party that wants to kill rather than compromise in any way; they are not interested in constitutional rights. They are only interested in removing your protected and God given rights.
    It is time that all nations ban with each other against this terrorist
    attack against the world. Like it or not, they only understand one thing, wipe out or be wiped out.

    • Curtis

      Ox? Are you saying that YOUR “protected and god given rights” can only be protected by denying someone else those “protected and god given rights”? Ox, is that an oxymoron? Or is it a paradox? (Actually, I think it’s just ironic, but there wasn’t a pun there.)

  • Diviney

    Our Muslim President and his croney Holder will ensure that this non-citizen terrorist who is at war with the US will receive ‘presidential’ treatment with all of the protections of US Citizenship. He could even cop a mistrial and be set free in this country with a Social Security number and welfare payments.

  • LindyMaeUSA

    “He’s not a citizen of this country. He’s a terrorist, and I don’t think he deserves the full range of protections of our criminal justice system embodied in the constitution of the U.S,” the former official affirmed.

    Uh, did I miss something somewhere? WHO SAID this ANIMAL even QUALIFIES for “the full range of protections of OUR criminal justice system . . ?? ” Where in the Hell did THAT come from? Hello?

    Let me see if I have this correct: He’s a Nigerian, a Muslim “ALLAH DEMANDS WE KILL ALL AMERICANS!” maniac, boarded a U.S. plane in a FOREIGN country, FOUND with the explosive device ON HIM, stating: “THERE ARE MANY MORE LIKE ME!” so WHO got the story going around that this “poor, misunderstood Muslim Monster” has access to or qualifies for ANY PART of the American justice system? Oh! Wait! I just got an instant message from the White House telling me to “Sit down and shut up!”

    • Beepster

      Oh! Wait! I just got an instant message from the White House telling me to “Sit down and shut up!”

      LOL Although I might laugh, it really wouldn’t be all that surprising to have happen.

      They’re ready to “cut a deal” for him for the info he has! A short session on the water board, and any info he might have would come right out!!! Had this been done by an American on a plane loaded with Muslims and landing in a Muslim country, he would have been hauled out of the plane and onto the tarmac and shot right there. No questions asked!!!

    • Joe H.

      LindyMaeUSA,
      Catchy name, I like it!!! I heard the “crotch bomber” paid dearly for his stupidity and still has to go to trial!!!!!! OOOOH THAT HURTS!!!

  • http://roger@michiganprestain.com Roger Slonaker

    No matter this mans religon or country of origin he should be fairly tried but by our military courts since we ask our military to defend and protect us at their risk. He should not be returned to his country as we have already learned from the realease of detainees from the Cuban fiasco.

    If you enter our country to harm it or it’s citizens then you must suffer the consequences …. Let our military handle this as they are most familiar with this type of people …. Otherwise civil courts will deal with this from ethnic and religous point of views and most certainly turn them loose to attack and worse be successful on their next attempt and they will repeat the action !!

    Roger Slonaker
    Grand Rapids, MI

    • Miles C

      I am so tired of hearing about all the rights of these perpetrators from foreign countries. This guy was found with explosives on his body. Go ahead and execute him and get on with life. He does not deserve to be able to waste our court’s time and money.
      If Obama really wants to close Gitmo, then all he has to do is to form a firing squad and line all of the terrorist up and let our men have some target practice. This would be a quick solution to his problem of Gitmo and might give the other terrorist a strong message to what will happen if we get you.

    • Jana

      Roger: I agree.

  • James Corbin

    I don’t know about the rest of you people—–But when a person is caught (Like the terrorist) trying to kill american people —-should be an automatic death sentence. When they are caught right in the act–how can any one say he is innocent? I know you’re innocent until proven guilty—but this man was foung guily already!!!!!

    • Pat R

      According to the Media– This Terrorist, caught in the act of trying
      to blow up an airplane filled with passengers, is a “Suspect”!
      Lord have Mercy on us all. What more evidence is needed? Sometimes I would prefer for the Media to just keep their dumb mouths shut!

      • Curtis

        Pat, don’t blame the media. If they don’t refer to him as a “suspect” any first year law student could claim the media jeopardized his client’s right to a fair trial and instead of a lethal injection or life in prison, the Nigerian terrorist would be set free. You need to understand the media have legal obligations here.

  • Bryant M. Poehler

    why are you refering to the President? He is a citizen, always has been and has a legal birth certificate. Too many people believe all of those email rumors. A smart decent person would find out the truth before forwarding any of those lies. Common sense should tell you that
    his credentials are all on the up and in order and if not, there are too many people on Capital Hill that would have put and end to his runing for President. The biggst problem with many people is they don’t like the idea of a dark skin man as president. Personally, I don’t care what color or race the man is.

    • http://Don'thaveone Sally

      It doesn’t matter if he is pink with purple pock a dots, you should lern the truth. Those papers of birth, college records, school records, etc., should have been presented just like all the others had to do before he received the nomination and I blame the Republican Party for not making sure that this was done!!!!!. We are suppose to find out on January 26th 2010. Until then, it 99% that he is not. Don’t know what happens if found that he is not – will cross that bridge then

      • http://aol.com Dolores

        You are writing ignorant. You just don’t like the color of the president’s skin. It doesn’t matter that his mother was White and her parents are and were white. Barack has the wrong color for you and the majority of the Republicans. You know Hawaii is a part of America,yet, you refuse to accept that and all of the president’s credentials showing his birth origin. Why didn’t you and the others like you require the same of George Bush Senior and George Bush the second? They had the right skin color. You need to come off of your prejudice air and admit the truth. You’re a racist and it’s being shown.

        • Jana

          Delores, You are the one that has been bringing up race, not anyone else here. Maybe you need to recheck your values.
          You are the one coming across as a racist.

          • DaveH

            I second that evaluation Jana.

        • Joe H.

          Dolores,
          I have said many times there are many Black men better qualified to run this country than O-man!!! One is Larry Elder, check out his credentials and tell me the truth and disagree with me!!!

    • Pat R

      Get your head out of the sand! He was born in Kenya; where a monument
      has been erected at “The Birthplace of Barrack Hussein Obama” All the info you are believing is false! His own Grandmother said he was born in Kenya! Put that in your wacky-weed pipe and smoke it along with your obamakookaid.

  • http://Don'thaveone Sally

    I know this doesn’t directly have anything to do with this, but I wanted all readers of Bob Livingston to know this (I have already sent out to my email group the information)
    Advice from an Israeli Agent

    AN ABSOLUTE MUST READ!!
    Juval Aviv was the Israeli Agent upon whom the movie ‘Munich’ was based. He was Golda Meir’s bodyguard, and she appointed him to track down and bring to justice the Palestinian terrorists who took the Israeli athletes hostage and killed them during the Munich Olympic Games.
    In a lecture in New York City he shared information that EVERY American needs to know — but that our government has not yet shared with us.
    He predicted the London subway bombing on the Bill O’Reilly show on Fox News, stating publicly that it would happen within a week. At the time, O’Reilly laughed and mocked him, saying that in a week he wanted him back on the show. Unfortunately, within a week the terrorist attack had occurred.
    Juval Aviv gave intelligence (via what he had gathered in Israel and the Middle East) to the Bush Administration about 9/11, a month before it occurred. His report specifically said they would use planes as bombs and target high profile buildings and monuments. Congress has since hired him as a security consultant.
    Now for his future predictions: He predicts the next terrorist attack on the U.S. will occur within the next few months.
    Forget hijacking airplanes, because he says terrorists will NEVER try and hijack a plane again as they know the people onboard will never go down quietly again. Aviv believes our airport security is a joke — that we have been reactionary rather than proactive in developing strategies that are truly effective.
    For example:
    1) Our airport technology is outdated. We look for metal, and the new explosives are made of plastic.

    2) He talked about how some idiot tried to light his shoe on fire. Because of that, now everyone has to take off their shoes. A group of idiots tried to bring aboard liquid explosives. Now we can’t bring liquids on board. He says he’s waiting for some suicidal maniac to pour liquid explosive on his underwear; at which point, security will have us all traveling naked! Every strategy we have is reactionary.

    3) We only focus on security when people are heading to the gates. Aviv says that if a terrorist attack targets airports in the future, they will target busy times on the front end of the airport when/where people are checking in. It would be easy for someone to take two suitcases of explosives, walk up to a busy check-in line, ask a person next to them to watch their bags for a minute while they run to the restroom or get a drink, and then detonate the bags BEFORE security even gets involved. In Israel, security checks bags BEFORE people can even ENTER the airport.

    Aviv says the next terrorist attack here in America is imminent and will involve suicide bombers and non-suicide bombers in places where large groups of people congregate. (i.e., Disneyland, Las Vegas casinos, big cities like New York, San Francisco, Chicago, etc.) and that it will also include shopping malls, subways in rush hour, train stations, as well as rural America this time (the interlands Wyoming, Montana, etc.).

    The attack will be characterized by simultaneous detonations around the country (terrorists like big impact), involving at least 5-8 cities, including rural areas.

    Aviv says terrorists won’t need to use suicide bombers in many of the larger cities, because at places like the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, they can simply valet park a car loaded with explosives and walk away.

    Aviv says all of the above is well known in intelligence circles, but that our U. S. Government does not want to ‘alarm American citizens’ with the facts. The world is quickly going to become ‘a different place’, and issues like ‘global warming’ and political correctness will become totally irrelevant.

    On an encouraging note, he says that Americans don’t have to be concerned about being nuked. Aviv says the terrorists who want to destroy America will not use sophisticated weapons. They like to use suicide as a front-line approach. It’s cheap, it’s easy, it’s effective; and they have an infinite abundance of young militants more than willing to ‘meet their destiny’.
    He also says the next level of terrorists, over which America should be most concerned, will not be coming from abroad. But will be instead, ‘homegrown’, having attended and been educated in our own schools and universities right here in the U.S. He says to look for ‘students’ who frequently travel back and forth to the Middle East. These young terrorists will be most dangerous because they will know our language and will fully understand the habits of Americans; but that we Americans won’t know/ understand a thing about them.

    Aviv says that, as a people, Americans are unaware and uneducated about the terrorist threats we will inevitably face. America still has only a handful of Arabic and Farsi speaking people in our intelligence networks, and Aviv says it is critical that we change that fact SOON.

    So, what can America do to protect itself? From an intelligence perspective, Aviv says the U.S. needs to stop relying on satellites and technology for intelligence. We need to, instead, follow Israel’s, Ireland’s and England’s hands-on examples of human intelligence, both from an infiltration perspective as well as to pay attention to, and trust, ‘aware’ citizens to help. We need to engage and educate ourselves as citizens; however, our U. S. government continues to treat us, its citizens, ‘like babies’. Our government thinks we ‘can’t handle the truth’ and are concerned that we’ll panic if we understand the realities of terrorism. Aviv says this is a deadly mistake.

    Aviv recently created/executed a security test for our Congress, by placing an empty briefcase in five well-traveled spots in five major cities. The results? Not one single person called 911 or sought a policeman to check it out!! In fact, in Chicago, someone tried to steal the briefcase!

    In comparison, Aviv says that citizens of Israel are so well ‘trained’ that an unattended bag or package would be reported in seconds by citizen(s) who know to publicly shout, ‘Unattended Bag!’ The area would be quickly & calmly cleared by the citizens themselves.

    Unfortunately, America hasn’t been yet ‘hurt enough’ by terrorism for their government to fully understand the need to educate its citizens or for the government to understand that it’s their citizens who are, inevitably, the best first-line of defense against terrorism.

    Aviv also was concerned about the high number of children here in America who were in preschool and kindergarten after 9/11, who were ‘lost’ without parents being able to pick them up, and about our schools that had no plan in place to best care for the students until parents could get there. (In New York City, this was several days, in some cases!)
    He stresses the importance of having a plan that’s agreed upon within your family, of how to respond in the event of a terrorist emergency. He urges parents to contact their children’s schools and demand that the schools too, develop plans of actions, just as they do in Israel.

    Does your family know what to do if you can’t contact one another by phone? Where would you gather in an emergency? He says we should all have a plan that is easy enough for even our youngest children to remember and follow.

    Aviv says that the U. S. government has in force a plan, that in the event of another terrorist attack, EVERYONE’s

    ability to use cell phones, blackberries, etc., will immediately be cut-off, as this is the preferred communication source used by terrorists and is often the way that their bombs are detonated.

    How will you communicate with your loved ones in the event you cannot speak to each other? You need to have a plan.

    If you understand, and believe what you have just read, then you must feel compelled to send this to every concerned parent, guardian, grandparents, uncles, aunts, whomever. Don’t stop there. In addition to sharing this via e-mail, contact and discuss this information with whomever it makes sense to. Make contingency plans with those you care about. Better that you have plans in place, and never have to use them, then to have no plan in place, and find you needed them.

    • Earlw

      All:

      I am compelled to write this, as I see in all of this back-and-forth so far not one person has questioned that this MIGHT just be a false flag or worse, a homegrown hoax to throw everyone off balance for some yet undisclosed reason. As this case has been presented, MSM says this guy basically lit a (firecracker, maybe), which set his “pouch” on fire. the “authorities ” SAY it was PETN, Which is high explosive (Detonator cord) used in swat operations and forced entries. what was shown on the news looked like cotton batting to me, which is an upholstery material..No one questions whether there was a misdeed on an aircraft, just whether it was a real or a hoax terrorist…..These things can and have happened in the past.The Gulf of Tonkin incident (which never happened) comes to mind. There JUST HAPPENS to be lots of OIL in Nigeria, which US is licking it’s chops over, so be your own judge. I think I smell a rat…

    • DaveH

      You know Sally, what you say may be true, but do we need to give government more ammunition to take over every aspect of our lives? I will take my chances with the terrorists over having the government do-gooders messing with us in every thing we do.
      We have gone from a nation of rugged pioneers to a nation of cry-babies in a little over 200 years.

  • http://Don'thaveone Sally

    Another Article that I wish for you all to read that just came in:
    Professor Wichman E-mail

    Claim: A Michigan professor sent an e-mail telling Muslim students to leave the country.

    Status: True.

    The story begins at Michigan State University with a mechanical engineering professor named Indrek Wichman.

    Wichman sent an e-mail to the Muslim Student’s Association. The e-mail was in response to the students’ protest of the Danish cartoons that portrayed the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist. The group had complained the cartoons were ‘hate speech’.

    ============

    Enter Professor Wichman.

    ==========================================

    In his e-mail, he said the following:

    ===============================

    Dear Moslem Association,

    As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU I intend to protest your protest. I am offended not by cartoons, but by more mundane things like beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on public buildings, suicide murders, murders of Catholic priests (the latest in Turkey), burnings of Christian churches, the continued persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt, the imposition of Sharia law on non-Muslims, the rapes of Scandinavian girls and women(called ‘whores’ in your culture), the murder of film directors in Holland, and the rioting and looting in Paris, France.

    This is what offends me, a soft-spoken person and academic, and many, many of my colleagues. I counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceed with your infantile ‘protests.’

    If you do not like the values of the West – see the 1st Amendment – you are free to leave. I hope for God’s sake that most of you choose that option. Please return to your ancestral homelands and build them up yourselves instead of troubling Americans.

    Cordially, I. S. Wichman Professor of Mechanical Engineering

    =============================

    As you can imagine, the Muslim group at the university didn’t like this too well. They’re demanding that Wichman be reprimanded and the university impose mandatory diversity training for faculty and mandate a seminar on hate and discrimination for all freshmen.

    Now the local chapter of CAIR has jumped into the fray. CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, apparently doesn’t believe that the good professor had the right to express his opinion.

    ==========

    For its part, the university is standing its ground in support of Professor Wichman, saying the e-mail was private, and they don’t intend to publicly condemn his remarks.

    ============================================================

    Send this to your friends, and ask them to do the same. Tell them to keep passing it around until the whole country gets it. We are in a war. This political correctness crap is getting old and killing us.

    • Curtis

      I totally agreed with Professor Wichman, but let’s not forget this story is three and a half years old.

    • Joe H.

      Sally,
      Then we have “Professor Jihad” at Kent State! He has stated many times on E-mail that the 9/11 bombers were “heroes” and were very brave!!! He said that there SHOULD be more as time goes by!!! There were ROTC students that were taking his class and when they disagreed with him he flunked them!!! Kent State is in full support of him!!!! My daughter wanted to attend there last year but when I heard about him I said the only way she would attend was if she paid her own tuition!! She didn’t attend. On, I might add, her own decision!!! Not because of the money but what she saw about him!!!

  • Bryant M. Poehler

    WELL SALLY,—-HOW MANY OTHER PRESIDENTS CREDENTIALS HAVE YOU SEEN? I’LL BET NONE. I DON’T REMEMBER HOW MANY TIMES HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE WAS SHOWN ON TV. IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU ARE ONE THAT STILL BELIEVES ALL OF THOSE WILD AND WOOLY INTERNET RUMORS.

    THERE IS SO MANY PEOPLE OUT IN THE WORLD THAT ARE SO DUMB, THEY NO DOUBT BELIEVE “THE SATUREDAY EVENING POST” IS SOMETHING YOU TIE HORSES TOO

    • Earlw

      Wild and wooly???? I have read this and MANY other pages over the past 20 years or so I have had access to internet material. It occurs to me although I cannot recall the name at the moment, there have been other imposters as well (I’m an old geezer). The certificate every one seems to mention is a certificate of live birth, which Hawaii issues to children even when born out of state. The birthers need to consider other info such as the fact that his father was a British subject when he went to school in Indonesia (Indonesia at that time did not allow dual nationality), therefore he was an indonesian citizen. Much documentation has been provided to rebut this (school records). Please do your homework more accurately……

      • Jana

        Earlw:
        And the fact that he has gone under different names such as Barry Soetoro (the spelling of the last name is probably incorrect). Also, that he has had his records sealed in Hawaii. All that is being asked of him, is the openness and transparency that he promised. If he would offer his records up to his own people on the Supreme Court at least it would stop a lot of these questions, but nothing and I mean nothing is forthcoming. There are many higher officials that are questioning this and are being dissed. Therefore the uncertainty could be stopped by Obama himself, but he refuses.

    • JC

      Well Bryant, considering there was no way in hell he was travelling on an American passport until at least his mid twenties has me inclined to believe that his faked birth certificate is a faked birth certificate. And even if none of that is true…the puppet talking head is a communist and shouldn’t have been let into the country in the first place.

      • Joe H.

        JC,
        Then there is the fact brought up the other day by another poster about that in the 60s the black race was still listed as negroid on all legal documents!!!! On the certificate of live birth that has been shown it says Afro-American!!!! I know this to be fact as I remember the I.D.s that the Army issued in 68 said this!!!

  • http://AmericaTakenDown&ChinaOnTheRise RoseC

    The U.S. Constitution establishes that the U.S. Congress and U.S. President is not to aid, abet, or comfort foreign anti-American enemies, but then which of the far left liberal democrats follow the supreme laws of the land when they’re busy closing GITMO and sending anti-American war criminals to Yemen while prosecuting four U.S. Navy Seals who protected us from harm and captured a terrorist who killed four U.S. Americans (one Navy Seal), tortured then before murdering and dragging their bodies into the street and hanging two from a bridge on display. So, congress members who are more concerned about political correctness instead of protecting the American people need to be voted out of office as soon as possible and become missionaries for those they feel are no more than lost souls, not brainwashed suicide bombers who want to kill Americans.

    • http://www.personalliberty.com Angela

      AMEN!!!

  • Cliff

    A firing squad is a good idea, however, keeping in mind that these jihadists are dying for a cause; they WANT to die, to be martyrs.
    So, in order to be an effective deterrent, their execution must send a very strong message.
    I submit that we use the same tactics on them, broadcast live executions, with a twist. They post be-headings, we broadcast the live execution on international television, with a close-up of the FEMALE Marine firing squad, dipping the bullets in pigs blood, then shooting the bad guy, right between the eyes..
    That will send the right message, mess with USA, you will NOT get to see Allah.
    In the years after WWII, no nation on Earth would even think about messing with the USA. We had the biggest stick, and weren’t afraid to use it.
    Sadly, years of political correctness, and multi-cultural diversity has diluted the American spirit. We were was once the greatest nation on Earth, the time has come to reclaim that greatness.
    Evict the usurper in chief, vote the current crop of career politicians out of Congress, and put country this back under rule of law, not rule of men. Repeat this phrase..
    “I do solemnly swear, to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic, so help me God.”
    God Bless America; I pray it’s not too late..

    • Jana

      I heard on TV the other day ABC News that the reason they are closing Gitmo is because it is offensive to the terrorists.
      WHAT?????? They said it gives them a cause. Ha, all they need for a cause is that we exist.

      • Miles C

        Why can’t the bunch of dummies wanting to close Gitmo realize that when the terrorists are moved to another prison, that prison becomes the prison that offends. This ‘
        “ole country boy” can figure this one out. At least Gitmo is not on our home soil and if one get free he can go live with Castro.

    • Joe H.

      Cliff,
      don’t have to dip them in pigs blood. Just use a pork lard protective coating!!! Better still hang them with a pig leather rope!!! Soak it the night before so it won’t stretch!

  • Bryant M. Poehler

    WHY DON’T YOU RESEARCH THESE RUMORS. OBAMAS CITIZENSHIP CASE IS NOT GOING TO COURT ON 26 JAN. 2010 OR ANY OTHER COURT. JUST MORE INTERNET
    BULL CRAP. BACK IN THE 60′S WHEN GOLDWATER RAN AGAINST LBJ. THE SAME THING WAS BROUGHT UP SINCE GOLDWATER WAS BORN IN 1909 AND ARIZONA DIDN’T BECOME A STATE UNTIL1912. IT’S A GOOD THING WE DIDN’T HAVE THE INTERNET BACK THEN OR THIS COUNTRY WOULD BE MUCH MORE SCREWED UP THAN IT IS.

  • Earlw

    Correction: if we had the internet in 1912 we would have already figured out what our Gov’t was up to and fixed it……WW I and WW II might not have happened, as well as Vietnam and korea, and let’s not forget the first gulf war..

    The internet is our modern day “Liberty Tree”…..Look it up on the “Internet”

    • DaveH

      I agree Earlw, and they are coming after it with their “Net Neutrality” bullcrap.

    • c lee

      You said a mouth full Earlw.

  • Bryant M. Poehler

    THE INTERNET IS FINE IF PEOPLE WOULD STICK TO THE TRUTHS ABOUT THINGS RATHER MAKING UP BULL STORIES OR ADDING SOMETHING TO A STORY MAKING IT BIGGER.

    • Jana

      Bryant:
      Exactly! Like Al Gore and global warming. He uses fear tactics to help pad his bank account.
      Remember Al Gore invented the internet or so he wanted us to believe.

      • DaveH

        I don’t think Bryant will like that example Jana.

        • Joe H.

          DaveH,
          Sure he will Dave, just like he will love the one about the collection center adding to and taking away from its findings to fit the “climate change”!!! By the Way, did anyone see that this cold spell will be the longest and coldest in twenty years?!?!?!?

  • FRIENDLY “OLD” DOG

    SHOULD WE’VE HAD THE INTERNET BACK IN 1912 WOULD HAVE REALLY MADE A MESS OUT OF THINGS AND IT’S DOUBTFUL THAT WWI AND WWII WOULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED AS WELL AS THE KOREAN WAR. THE GULF WAR WAS A UNITED NATIONS OPERATION AT THE REQUEST OF KUWAIT. WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE WAS TAKING OUT SADDAM HUSSIEN BACK THEN. NOW WE ARE ENGAGED IN TWO WARS THAT SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN STARTED IN THE FIRST PLACE. WE HAVE MADE A MESS OUT OF TWO COUNTRIES WHO NEVER ATTACKED US. AL-QAIDA IS A SEPERATE ENITY FROM THE TWO COUNTRIES. THOSE WARS SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN STARTED UNTIL ATTACKED BY ONE OF THE TWO OR BOTH. THE INTERNET BEING OUR MODERN DAY LIBERTY TREE IS A CROCK

    • DaveH

      I wish you guys would quit using all uppercase. It’s annoying.
      The Internet is a god-send. It makes it easy to look up the votes of our Representatives to see how they are really voting, not what they tell us in their compaign speeches.
      The Internet did not invent Lying. It has existed since the dawn of man. The Politicians would love to have some excuse to censor the Internet because it makes it too easy for people around the country to communicate. We are no-longer dependant on the propaganda networks for our news.

      • c lee

        Hey Dave it sounds like this guy goes along with the Govts mushroom theory, feed us Shi? and keep us in the dark. I feel the internet was our salvation because before the net we couldnt keep up with all the criminals in our govt. now we stand a better chance untill they decide to turn it off, and dont ever put that past the theiving Bastar??.

      • Claire

        With upper case, you don’t need glasses!

        • Joe H.

          Claire,
          I take off my bifocals to read the print on the computer! Can’t see it else wise!!!!

  • FRIENDLY “OLD” DOG

    “THE INTERNET BEING OUR MODERN DAY LIBERTY TREE IS A CROCK” i LOOKEDIT UP AND THAT IS ONLY AN OPINION. ALL TERRORIST SHOULD BE SHOT ON SIGHT WHEN CAUGHT IN THE ACT. ABOUT THE ISSUE OF OBAMA. IT DOESN’T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE WHERE HE WAS BORN. THE FACT IS HIS MOTHER WAS AND IS US CITIZEN AUTOMATICALLY MAKES HIM A CITIZEN. SOME COUNTRIES HAVE DUAL CITIZENSHIP

    • JC

      I believe the qualifcation to be be Pres. is that you must be born “on” American soil. Obama most certainly was Not!

  • Bryant M.

    Jana says:
    January 4, 2010 at 6:11 pm
    Bryant:
    Exactly! Like Al Gore and global warming. He uses fear tactics to help pad his bank account.
    Remember Al Gore invented the internet or so he wanted us to believe.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    DaveH says:
    January 4, 2010 at 6:33 pm
    I don’t think Bryant will like that example Jana.

    Reply More BS. That’s what the internet does spreads BS.
    There are a lot of people padding their bank accounts through fear. Over population will kill this planet before anything else.

    • DaveH

      Talk about fear mongering. If you’re afraid of over-population, maybe you Liberals should start advocating people being responsible for their own children instead of burdening others with their childbirth decisions. I’m talking about exemptions for children on income taxes and outright subsidies for those who choose to have children they can’t afford. Most of our problems could be addressed with the simple solution of less government, not more.
      But then, healthcare costs, global warming hoax, over-population scares, and other crises are not really about anything other than Liberals wanting to help themselves to other peoples’ money.

      • Joe H.

        DaveH,
        I don’t think Bryant liked that ANSWER!!!

  • JC
  • Polar Bear

    President Obama was born on US soil. Just what do you think Hawaii is?
    How would you feel if you mother gave birth to you in a foreign country and you not a citizen of the US? I sure don’t like any of you peoples crap. After fighting in three wars, WWII, Korea and Nam, I am
    about to the end of my life and these young punks believe they know everything.

    • c lee

      Ok Polar Bear we all know Hawaii is a state so prove he was born there thats all were asking prove it. Were all warm and fuzzy that your the all trusting sole but most of us are not due to the many lies deceptions and dirty deeds carried out by the washinton of late. So excuse us if we are not blind followers. It seems there are already enough of those. From one vet to another thank you for your service Brother.

    • Joe H.

      Polar bear,
      I’m a Nam vet only, so I guess I don’t have the vast knowledge you do. However I do remember one little thing about combat and that is trust no one but your buddies and yourself. Don’t trust this jerk, MR, he’ll be the end of you!!!

    • coal miner

      Polar Bear,

      Thank you, for serving our country.You are right.They need to give it a rest.This birth certificate thing is getting to be a pain in the ass.Obama won it fair and square.So they need to get on with their lives.

      • Joe H.

        coal minor,
        You miss the point. even if he won”fair and square”, if he’s not an American citizen then it’s all a moot point!!!

  • http://www.personalliberty.com Angela

    Why don’t we open up a new airline for Arab or Muslim people only. They wouldn’t be able to fly on our planes. That way if a terrorist wants to blow up a plane, he can blow up his own people; then maybe our problems would be solved.

    • c lee

      Nope that wont work , now youve created a way for them to use the plane as a big bomb to blow up over any major city they choose. Think of the damage they could do then.

  • James Corbin

    Delores, I admit George Bush, wasn’t perfect but he only acted on what the intelligence gave him and all the rest. He didn’t go to war by himself the Dems went along with it. At least he isn’t a muslim!

  • James Corbin

    THANKS TO THE PROFESSOR ! iT IRRITATES ME TO THINK THE MUSLIM CAN BOW AND DO WHATEVER THEY DO BUT THEY DON’T WANT ANYTHING PERTAINING TO CHRISTANITY. ( LIKE THE BOY MADE A CROSS) EVERYTHING IS GOING AGAINST- WHAT WAS ALWAYS RIGHT.IN OUR COUNTRY.

  • James Corbin

    JC—-Right on

  • Polar Bear

    C LEE—Obamas birth certificate has been shown on TV mant times.
    Why don’t you research the matter. Why do you believe that he is not a citizen? You prove to me and everyone else that he is not a citizen.
    You need to quit reading all of this propaganda. Go to snopes.com; truthorfiction.com; ask.com; and research his birth certificate. There are many other debunking web sites also.

    • Joe H.

      Polar Bear,
      NOPE AGAIN!!! That was a certificate of live birth!!! not a birth certificate! The Hawaiian islands have been issuing those to new arrivals to the islands for decades!!! They didn’t have to be born there!!

    • c lee

      Well Polar Bear seems like your propoganda source is no better than mine.I read on a post earlier in an unrelated story that snoops .com had confirmed a story that on our 1040 forms there was a space for declaring your firearms so the govt.( mafia boss at the irs )could collect 50 dollors tax on each gun in your possesion, well guess what that was hoarse shi? just like your birth certificate story. I did my research on this but JoeH beat me to the punch with the answer so what JoeH says is fact. So maybe before you tell someone to check their facts you should take your own advice. Have a Great Day Polar Bear and stay cool.

  • Claire

    Terrorists should not receive constitutional protection. If they are caught in the act, no trial, no jury. No nothing. Maybe a hearing and then Death Penalty. An eye for an eye. Perhaps this would make them think twice about messing with America. Alienating moderate Muslims? Show me proof that they are on the “up and up.” If this makes me a racist, then so be it.

  • Polar Bear

    Joe H. says:
    January 5, 2010 at 10:48 pm
    Polar Bear,
    NOPE AGAIN!!! That was a certificate of live birth!!! not a birth certificate! The Hawaiian islands have been issuing those to new arrivals to the islands for decades!!! They didn’t have to be born there!!

    Just what do you think a certificate of live birth is. They sure as hell don’t issue them unless one is born there. I’d like to know why everyone wants to believe that he is not a US citizen? I was born in Los Angeles and I also have a certificate of live birth Birth certificate or certificate of live birth. What is the difference?
    Just the wording. Also why would Hawaii issue something like that to new arrivals when they already have one? Tht’s not even making sense.

    • c lee

      Oh I dont know Polar Bear maybe they issued it because it was requested, ya think? Also if its the real deal why all the resistence from Obummer. Your so ready to take all this at face value in a time were any document you want can be bought on the street if you know were to go to get it, and who better to print it than the people that print all that counterfit money in circulation today in case you dont know who iam talking about Ill give you a hint its the govt. So if he is a legally born U.S. citizen why not prove it because surly we the people have every right to demand this.

    • Michael J.

      Polar Bear, Just come out of hibernation? facts are in 1960 you could arrive in Hawaii at the age of 47, request a certificate of live birth and receive one. The island at the time was seeking citizens any way they could get them.
      Do you know that Obama’s sister also has a Hawaiian certificate of live birth inspite of the fact that she was indisputedly born in Indonesia?
      As for your own certificate of live birth, how do you know your parents were not lying about your origin? Dispicable acts are perpetratated against infants all the time. For example, when I was less than a week old I was circumsized against my will. The tramatic result was that I could not walk for almost a year afterwards.

      • KENO K.

        Michael J. says:
        January 7, 2010 at 7:09 am
        Polar Bear, Just come out of hibernation? facts are in 1960 you could arrive in Hawaii at the age of 47, request a certificate of live birth and receive one. The island at the time was seeking citizens any way they could get them.
        Do you know that Obama’s sister also has a Hawaiian certificate of live birth inspite of the fact that she was indisputedly born in Indonesia?
        As for your own certificate of live birth, how do you know your parents were not lying about your origin? Dispicable acts are perpetratated against infants all the time. For example, when I was less than a week old I was circumsized against my will. The tramatic result was that I could not walk for almost a year afterwards.
        ======================================================================
        Michael J.—You would be a good one at starting internet rumors.

        Did you know that according to the supermarket newspapers claim that they found Rudolph the red nose reindeer in Sarah Palins freezer. Now that is just the kind of news that goes around on the internet and you probably believe it. How do you know you were circumsised against you will? I suppose you remember? I doubt if Obamas sister has a Hawaiian birth certificate. If she does tell me where I can find that info. Oh ya. Why couldn’t you walk you walk for almost a year after your circumscison. Did they cut so much off that you lost you stability untill it grew back? Polar Bear will probably like this one

        • Joe H.

          Keno K,
          Hey num nutz!! At the age of six months he sure couldn’t have given permission!!! Why don’t you look up the certificate of live birth. (not a “birth certificate as you say!)

        • Michael J.

          Keno K, Next time wipe the Chris Matthews cheese out of your eyes before you read my post and you might get it straight. You don’t think I am tired of informing people about O man’s dubious credentials? I wish his mother had swallowed him instead.

  • Norm

    I think the underwear bumber should be afforded all the protections of the constitution, he should then be tried in a civilian court, convicted, and given the death penalty.

    • c lee

      Why Norm? Please elaborate.

    • c lee

      I agree with the death sentence but why not in a Military Court carried out by fireing squad. Initiated by Female soilders, with the ammo dipped in pigs blood. The whole thing being televised with a message stateing we are a civilized people who when provoked can be as ruthless and doglike as you heathens. Can I get a Hu Rah!!!!

      • Norm

        c lee
        As Americans we need to be a cut better than the rest. Unfortunately, even the worst scum need be treated in accordance with the law, for our benifit not theirs. Our bottom lines accomplish the same end, although yours is a bit more flamboyant. My only fear, is that the trial be held in a state, like mine, which would take 20 years to carry out the sentence.

    • coal miner

      Norm,

      On this thread they said all Muslims are a like,if I am not mistaken his own father warn us about him.What religion is his farther?

  • kilrntex

    Kill them all and let Satan sort them out! And before we do, send them home with the Liberal scum that supports them. Maybe the terrorist will do us a favor and terminate the Liberals before the same happens to them. We are in a war of survival and anything must be considered. Time has past for talking to these idiots and now we must start SHOWING our beliefs and our concern. Death to them all!!!

  • Bryant M.

    No! The “Underwear Bomber” should have been shot on the spot.

    • Joe H.

      Bryant M,
      Too bad his bomb didn’t go off just a little bit more, just enough to take him out!! Boy could we have had a field day with that in the Muslim world!! The head line would read “Muslim declares Jihad on himself”!!!!! Or ” Muhammad declares jihad on bomber’!!!!

  • June Gagnon

    Make no mistake, people; there is no such thing as a “moderate Muslim”- -and any NON US citizen IS NOT ENTITLED TO CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTION. End of story. IF the so-called moderate Muslims, living in this country, or elsewhere, don’t like it, they are free to leave, or protest, which they most often do. Too many US citizens, in this day and age are all about “political correctness”. Excuse me, what ever happened to “TRUTH AND HONESTY”?? Even when it hurts, it’s better than lies and sham.

  • June Gagnon

    To C lee-HU-RAH, HU-RAH, HU-RAH!!

  • Bryant M.

    C LEE; You had better re-check about that bill on firearms, declaring them on your income tax. That info come back as false.

    • c lee

      I think you misunderstood what I was saying Bryant M. but after going back and reading what I said I can see how it might be a little confusing.Polar Bear had stated that he had verified something on snoops . com and I was just saying the original post I had made on another story on another page was that the original guy that posted this tax form story had gotten it off of snoops.com so I went to Senate .gov and found the actual story. And they listed it as an internet rumor and thats how I reported it, as an internet rumor. Sorry I was not plainer in my blogging. So again as I originaly reported this story is not true.

      • Bryant M.

        C. LEE;
        much of the information given on those de-bunking sites can be misleading since a lot of people will not read the article to the full extent therefore the info. becomes taken out of context and then becomes false and/or misleading. I got the info. off a —–. gov. website also.

        • Joe H.

          Bryant M,
          Besides snopes is run by a liberal husband and wife team and where do they get their facts???? They could be just as wrong as us!!!!

  • Bryant M.

    C LEE;

    The IRS is Going to Require All Firearms to be Listed on Income Tax Returns-Fiction!

    Summary of eRumor:
    This story is that Congress is considering legislation that will require all firearms that a person owns be listed on that person’s personal income tax return. Additionally, it may require fingerprints and tax of $50 per gun. This is said to be in SB2099, a bill in the United States Senate.

    The Truth:
    This was either a misreading of the actual bill or an intentional misrepresentation of it.

    SB2099 was known as the “Handgun Safety and Registration Act of 2000.” Some versions of the eRumor have changed the dated to 2009 but that was added by someone along the way. The bill died in a Senate committee and was never passed into law.

    TruthOrFiction.com reviewed some of the history and the text of the bill as well as a portion of the IRS code it sought to amend.

  • POLAR BEAR

    C. LEE;

    . snopes.com: Handgun Safety and Registration Act

    Copy this and paste in on your browser

    • Joe H.

      Hey Polar Bear,
      Check out your source that checks your facts. Snopes is a brainchild of a liberal husband and wife!!!! they have been proven wrong on things before!!!!

    • c lee

      Polar Bear simply go to senate .gov and read it for yourself. I like to go to the hoarses mouth when Iam verifying a story. Its false.

      • Joe H.

        c lee,
        I wasn’t saying it was true, I’m just saying that a liberal fact site could be slanted quite badly!!!!

  • POLAR BEAR

    I havent found snopes wrong yet. Go to fact check or truth or fiction.
    amongst other debunking sites.

  • Bryant

    Overview
    Sponsor: Sen. John Reed [D-RI]show cosponsors (2)
    Cosponsors:
    Frank Lautenberg [?-NJ]
    Charles Schumer [D-NY]

    Text: Summary | Full Text
    Status: Introduced Feb 24, 2000
    Referred to Committee View Committee Assignments
    Reported by Committee (did not occur)
    Senate Vote (did not occur)
    House Vote (did not occur)
    Signed by President (did not occur)

    This bill never became law. This bill was proposed in a previous session of Congress. Sessions of Congress last two years, and at the end of each session all proposed bills and resolutions that haven’t passed are cleared from the books. Members often reintroduce bills that did not come up for debate under a new number in the next session.
    Last Action: Feb 24, 2000: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance.
    Related: See the Related Legislation page for other bills related to this one and a list of subject terms that have been applied to this bill. Sometimes the text of one bill or resolution is incorporated into another, and in those cases the original bill or resolution, as it would appear here, would seem to be abandoned.

    Question & Answer
    Have a question about this bill? Submit a short fact-oriented question and see if it will be answered by other visitors.
    Enter your question. Tips: Be clear and precise. No abbreviations. Don’t ask about the status of this bill or when it will be voted on (other users are not likely to know). Don’t ask a loaded question or for individual advice: Your question will be rejected.

    After submitting your question it will be reviewed, and if approved will appear here.

  • KENO K

    Michael J.

    Where did you come up with that idea on Hawaii issuing a birth certificate?

    When did you expect to walk? Two weeks after you were born.

    • Joe H.

      Hey num nutz!!! It was satire or are you numb in the brain as well?

  • KENO K

    I believe everyone knew it was sataire. Just a little thrown back.

    A “Certification of Live Birth” is a short form birth certificate. The information included in the document may differ from state to state. A “Certification of Live Birth” from Hawaii will include the name and sex of the person, date of birth, hour of birth, island of birth, county of birth, mother’s maiden name, mother’s race, father’s name, father’s race, date accepted by registrar, a certificate number and seal. The seal may be different depending on the year it was printed.

    A “Certificate of Live Birth,” is the long form birth certificate and contains more detailed information, including signatures of doctor(s), witnesses, vital statistics (length and weight), etc.

    According to the Department of Hawaiian Homelands:

    Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

    The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individuals birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

    So, a long form Certificate has additional information on it that that is useful for genealogical purposes, however both the certificate and the certification are certified government records providing prima facia proof of the information they contain.

    • Joe H.

      Keno K.
      Check out the story in the World Net Daily dated 6/7/09 about Hawaiian certificates of live birth!! You will see, if you can read, that certificates of live birth were issued to people not born on the islands!!!

  • KENO K

    JOE K.
    i’M SO DAMN SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR WHATEVER YOU WISH TO CALL IT. EVEN IF HIS PARENTS WERE NOT US CITIZENS, HE STILL IS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN BEING THAT HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

    DID YOU EVER STOP TO THINK HOW MANY MEXICANS ARE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES AND THEIR PARENTS ARE NOT. IT’S TIME THIS OBAMA CITIZENSHIP BE PUT TO REST ONCE AND FOR ALL. AS FAR AS I’M CONCERNED THE WORLD NET DAILY IS JUST ANOTHER RAG SHEET AND THEIR REPORTING IS JUST A MATTER OF OPINION. THERE IS TOO MANY PUNDITS IN THIS WORLD GIVING THEIR OPINIONS. ALL OF THIS CRAP MAKES MONEY AND MONEY IS THE BOTTOM LINE.

    • coal miner

      KenoK,

      I agree with you,I haven’t voted since Nixion.If they don’t like the man,vote him out of office, in the next election.

  • POLAR BEAR

    I have to agree with Keno. It’s time to put all of this BS to rest and start trying to help this. As the late President John F. Kennedy once said “Ask not what your country can do for you” “Ask what you can do for your country>”

  • POLAR BEAR

    COAL MINER;
    You’re right, vote them out I’ve heard that story since the for over 50 years, yet no one gets voted out. i have always been an Independant.
    I don’t believe in the two party system. With the party system those elected officials will not do what is good for the country or the people. Only what’s good for the party. I have been an independant since my school days in the 1930′s when I learned of President Washington warning of the party system.

    “Although never officially joining the Federalist Party, he supported its programs and was its inspirational leader. Washington’s farewell address was a primer on republican virtue and a stern warning against partisanship, sectionalism, and involvement in foreign wars.”

  • POLAR BEAR

    WASHINGTON QUOTES;
    GEORGE WASHINGTON, Farewell Address, Sep. 17, 1796

    However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.

    “GEORGE WASHINGTON, letter to Alexander Hamilton, Aug. 26, 1792

    If the government and the officers of it are to be the constant theme for newspaper abuse, and this too without condescending to investigate the motives or the facts, it will be impossible, I conceive, for any man living to manage the helm or to keep the machine together.”

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