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Thinking Of Fleeing The United States?

June 1, 2012 by  

Thinking Of Fleeing The United States?
Senators Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Robert Casey (D-Pa.) want expatriates to pay if they renounce their citizenship.

Wowee, some folks are sure angry that Eduardo Saverin, one of the co-founders of Facebook, decided to unfriend the country that helped make him a billionaire.

Senators Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Robert Casey (D-Pa.) called a press conference two weeks ago to announce the introduction of the Ex-PATRIOT Act. The letters stand for “Expatriation Prevention by Abolishing Tax-Related Incentives for Offshore Tenancy.” I’ll bet somebody spent hours coming up with that one.

The measure would also bar individuals like Saverin from ever re-entering the United States.

Schumer couldn’t help sounding a little spiteful when he declared: “Saverin has turned his back on the country that welcomed him and kept him safe, educated him and helped him become a billionaire. This is a great American success story gone horribly wrong.”

Clearly, Schumer would have changed “fleeing” in the headline above to “fleecing.”

For the record, let it be noted that Saverin paid every penny of taxes the Internal Revenue Service said he owed before he left our shores to become a citizen of Singapore. But that’s not enough for the greedy Senators. Their measure would impose a 30 percent capital gains tax on all of the assets of any American who dared to renounce his citizenship. It was predicted that Saverin’s Facebook shares would be worth about $3.5 billion after the initial public offering; that would have been a $1 billion bite.

Singapore, by contrast, has no capital gains tax; so it would appear that Saverin had a hefty financial incentive to make the move.

Nevertheless, the new Facebook billionaire issued a statement denying that he was leaving the U.S. to avoid paying taxes.

“I have paid and will continue to pay any taxes due on everything I earned while a U.S. citizen,” he said. He added that he was “very grateful to the U.S.” for the advantages he enjoyed since 1992, when he moved to the United States from Brazil. His decision to renounce his U.S. citizenship, he declared, “was based solely on my interest in working and living in Singapore.” Sure thing, Eduardo.

When I first heard this story, I couldn’t help but compare the threats and accusations against Saverin to the treatment another American billionaire received when he decided to relinquish his U.S. citizenship.

John Templeton was an investor and mutual fund pioneer who renounced his U.S. citizenship in the 1960s and moved to the Bahamas. The move saved him an estimated $100 million in taxes when he subsequently sold his interest in Templeton Growth Fund, an investment firm he started in 1954.

But rather than threats of being drawn and quartered, Templeton was honored and feted. He was granted both Bahamian and British citizenship. In fact, he was subsequently knighted by Queen Elizabeth in recognition of his many charitable activities. At the time of his death, it is estimated that Sir John had given away more than $1 billion. His numerous gifts included establishing the Templeton College at the University of Oxford. He left the bulk of his fortune to the John Templeton Foundation, which manages the Templeton Prize for Progress toward Research or Discoveries about Spiritual Realities.

Templeton clearly believed he was a better steward of his wealth than our government would be since he took such a drastic step to reduce his tax bite, including what his estate would have to pay upon his death. But doesn’t every American who reduces his tax bill by making charitable contributions do the same  thing? By the way, this must even include Barack and Michelle Obama, who have made substantial gifts to charity. If they thought the government could spend the money better, why not just pay it in taxes?

When Templeton died four years ago at the age of 95, he was still one of the most admired and respected financial figures on the planet. I think it’s safe to say that Saverin will not be afforded the same affection and respect that Templeton enjoyed.

It turns out that an increasing number of Americans have decided to head for other shores. While the numbers are still a tiny fraction of our population, the trend is unmistakable: According to official figures, a mere 235 Americans gave up their nationality in 2008. Three years later, the number was more than seven times higher: 1,780 disgruntled Americans did so in 2011.

But that’s a pittance compared to the number of expats who have moved out of the United States without surrendering their citizenship. An estimated 6 million citizens live outside our borders. While that does not absolve them from paying taxes here, they do enjoy some substantial advantages — including, in many cases, a substantially lower cost of living.

So what about you? Are there any circumstances that would persuade you to pack your bags and head for another country? If you’ve already left our shores, I hope you’ll use the comments section below to tell us why you did, when it happened and where you went. I’m sure a ton of readers will be interested in your reasons — and your experiences.

If you are thinking of becoming an expat, where would you go? If the amount of economic freedom you will find in your newly adopted country is an important consideration, then you need to know about the Index of Economic Freedom. It’s a study that’s done every year by the Heritage Foundation, in cooperation with The Wall Street Journal.

You won’t be surprised to learn which countries head the list. Hong Kong is in first place, with Singapore right behind. Trailing those two Asian countries are Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Canada and Chile. Sad to say, the United States has slipped to 10th place on the list. Frankly, I was a little surprised we haven’t dropped further.

There were no surprises, either, at the bottom of the list. North Korea was dead last, with Zimbabwe, Cuba and Libya not doing much better. Other gems in the bottom 10, in descending order, were Equatorial Guinea, Iran, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Burma, Venezuela and Eritrea. I don’t think you’ll find your own personal Shangri-La in any one of them.

As for me, while I have enjoyed visiting many of the world’s garden spots (and a few places that were more like garbage dumps), there isn’t one I’d consider making my permanent home — not even if it would save me a fortune in taxes.

Besides, I’m having too much fun in the fight for freedom here to seriously consider leaving. I hope you are, too.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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    As often happens poorer people clamber to become a citizen, but when they make it to very wealthy status they want to leave without paying their share of yourcountries liabilities. Ah the greeks have found a better way or avoiding their debts …they just dont pay and expect others to carry their welfare in default. lol

    I must say though…that your capital gain taxes are not really equitable when your government seeks to steal such a great percentage for these demporary capital gains. Why is it that the Singaporeans are so successful by offering a lower or no tax regime and why do your tax mad politicians think more tax is more tax take when in fact more is less.

    ,Cnt they see the benefits and wisdom the asians have proven to work in HK and Singaporeans and have become successful by charging less or no tax and still collecting more?

    Facebook as an example in fact have become successful by offering a FREE SERVICE ie NO FEE FOR THE SERVICE read that again your morom politicians….and have been able to grow their wealth to near infinity. Why is that and why cants our politicians study this type philosophy instead of using the Communist old idea of taking everything and getting nowhere. Maybe if they read this they might wake up? pigs will fly…lol

    • Robert Smith

      Posted: “that your capital gain taxes are not really equitable when your government seeks to steal such a great percentage for these demporary capital gains. ”

      Capital gains is a PAPER profit, not money made from producing a product, adding value to it through those efforts, and selling it.


      • P man

        Not always. Buy a small business out of bankruptcy, for say $25,000 and work your ass off for 20 years and sell it for $5,000,000. That’s $4,975,000 in capitol gains. Not “paper profit that you did nothing to deserve”. That’s $4,975,000 that the government did nothing to help you with, but collected their fair share of taxes from your business and its employees each and every year for 20 years. I think you have little experience in the real world, and you buy some progressive politicians bs hook, line and sinker.

      • Dr David Hancock

        Hi Robert,

        P Man is right about capital gains, but wrong in his disparaging remarks on paper profit… why is it that nobody ever talks about paper losses, just paper profit? Investments all entail some kind of risk, right? So if you’re willing to risk your money, why should you be disparaged because you managed to be successful and make a profit? Let’s keep it real and look at both sides of the coin.

      • copakeman

        not only did you work your ass off for 20 years, you collected taxes from your employees for our federal government for 20 years. you were an unpaid non-volunteer employee of our federal govt. if you made a mistake with your employeee tax collections, it’s a felony and you will be fined and sent to jail. what a great country.

      • momo

        Capital gains are the rewards from capital formation that launched a business that is profiting. Have a high capital gains tax and the ability for capital formation is reduced, which reduces business formations, employment and spending.

      • DaveH

        You are sorely deluded, Robert. Without Capital Investments many companies who couldn’t otherwise borrow the money would have to go without. Facebook may have been one of them. Nevertheless, that money is used by companies to fund purchases of Capital Goods (machinery, plants, etc.) that are used to more efficiently produce their products. As companies produce more products with those efficient plants and machines their more highly skilled workers not only make bigger salaries than they otherwise would have, but the consumers also benefit by cheaper and more abundant goods and services.
        Capital investment drives good economies.
        If you want to know what the opposite does for economies, read this:

      • dlc

        But wouldn’t he have had significant tax deductions along the way, reducing his actual net profit to a far lesser amount? I am sure he has benefited from all kinds of tax incentives while he was building his net worth. The key there is to come to know how to use the system within the rules. If a person renounces their country, they are not just saying they disagree with a person or a political party. They are renouncing an entire system that has been sacrificed for, everything that stands behind the flag. If they come, profit and leave, they rape the system that provided the fertile soil on which they profited. Anyone that does that should have to pay. In the end, this is not a Republican or Democrat thing. This is a Constitution and Flag thing. The flag and the Constitution are not about parties. People have died for him to have what he has. If he renounces, then he must first repay into the soil what he has taken.

      • DocBobalus

        The majority of gains in “Capital Gains Tax” is just inflation for the majority of people. This inflation that should be controlled by governments has been used to reduce the population’s wealth throughout the 20th century. Let’s not forget that our great examples of Entrepreneurs and businessman existed when income tax didn’t exist!
        As Keynes pointed out :
        “Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the Capitalist System was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become ‘profiteers,’ who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat. As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.”

        Yo , stay on handouts cos if you try to make it someone will take it….

      • Vigilant

        dlc says, “Anyone that does that should have to pay. In the end, this is not a Republican or Democrat thing. This is a Constitution and Flag thing. The flag and the Constitution are not about parties. People have died for him to have what he has. If he renounces, then he must first repay into the soil what he has taken.”

        What you propose is rather an anti-Constitutional, anti-flag thing.

        We’re (supposed to be) all about individual freedom. To extract some penalty for leaving is purely a statist way of thinking. Moreover, Schumer & Co. have absolutely no concerns for either patriotism or morality. They have just found another way to bleed the public, coming or going, to fund their wealth redistribution schemes.

        I consider myself to be a patriot of the highest order. It is precisely BECAUSE I respect the Law of the Land and the Flag that represents the Republic, that I accede to anyone’s right to leave the country unimpeded by onerous taxation as a penalty for doing so.

      • Hey You

        This is like building a “Berlin wall”. Exactly the same commissar mentality. It must be in some peoples’ DNA.

      • DaveH

        It’s nothing more than the Big Government Gang getting revenge on those who scorn them. But they can’t be too obvious about that or the citizens would wake up from their stupors.

      • Mike in MI

        Hey You -
        When you say, “…it must be in sombody’s DNA.”, you are precisely accurate. Studies that have shown up out of the Univ. of VA (Sociology Dept.; discussed in REASON magazine,, “Born This Way?”) and Oregon in recent months and years have shown distinct genetic links which manifest in brain as thinking and behavioral digressions from norms. So, sometime, somewhere there has (have) been a mutation(s) manifesting as socially non-constructive behaviors which we label “Liberal, Progressive, Socialist, Humanistic, etc.”. It could be due to a number of factors acting alone or in combination – neurotransmitter synthesis, brain-networking dysfunction, wiring errors, nutritional defects, focus/attention defects (goal attainment, delayed gratification, etc.) – whatever. But, they show up as consistent, identifiable differences in the social characteristics of those referred to as conservative/traditional or others who pursue liberal/atraditional life-styles and orientation. These are also cross-cultural phenomena.
        Obviously, the one set of traits leads to stability and continuity (while permitting reasoned change to occur). The other set pushes relentlessly toward change, regardless of consequences, because of endless variety of experiences being sought (like heedless thrill-seeking just for the thrill).
        In my mind it remains to be seen if the two can be compatible without doing violence to our concepts of “freedom”. Like Michael Savage says, “Liberalim is a mental disease.” He could add to that,”…due to DNA mutation.” I often wonder lately in these regards about a connection here as a reason there were so many things in stable ancient cultures which called for corporal punishment.
        One thing seems certain, it is really neat that at this time in history God lets us decide for ourselves about whether or not we want to join His family and be part of the future system He says He IS going to set up. That system won’t be subject to all the ills and evils of the present chaos.

      • DaveH

        That’s scary stuff, Mike. If true, it would mean that we have no hope of ever appealing logically to Liberals or Progressives.

      • Mike in MI

        Dave H -
        I agree. It could be very scary, depending on one’s perspective. Or, it could be energizing and exciting waiting to see what’s going to play out and how each of us might participate – given our individual strengths and willingness to rise to…whatever portends. Rest assured that the status qou is bound to disintegrate. And, the theme of Chip Wood’s blog here “Thinking of Fleeing th U.S.” is a moot concept. Flee? to where or what new frontier? How? who but the most dedicated survivalist could drop out of sight for very long, or even stay hidden from someone who REALLY wanted to find him? Drones, minute listening devices and cameras, day/night heat and smell sensors, quiet ‘copters and gliders…Flee? One would need far more than mere human potential to depend on. I mean, Rambo is a nice but quaint idea from an “over the rainbow” mentality.
        But the Liberals mind set? No, I don’t see much likelihood of altering anything. I asked myself, “Could Jesus change the minds of the Judean priests, even though they KNEW that he was who he said he was?” The answer was. “Nope! They were the example of what ‘Liberal’ was in that day.” They were smooth, like your friend GALT, to the point of slimey, manipulative, educatedly able to entangle anybody in revisionist words and faulty arguments. Courtiers, haughty, spiritual scum.
        Jesus manner of dealing with such was neat. He never engaged in argueing with them. He only spoke the Appropriate scripture to them and moved on to someone else whom he could help. They hated him because he didn’t pay proper “respect” to who they thought they were. They wanted to take him and do away with him several times but God hid him in plain sight, somehow. (Wouldn’t be hard to do using any of 4 or 5 ways.)
        Why do I write all this stuff?
        History seems to be coming to a head, like a big zit.
        Dave H. you are a neat, very intelligent, virtuous individual. You love to be able to document what you say with the best, most authoritative resource you can find. Funny, I used to hate arguing with some people because they always backed into the “semantics” crevice to hide. I never had a resource I could count on until I met the accuracy and integrity of God’s Word. It’s like no other. It’ll back you up and give you an authority, if you take it up, like nothing you ever touched before. You’d be formidable and powerful after a little while.
        Try it. Might like it! Please, be on the right side when the zit pops.

      • Tom W.

        The man broke NO laws, he simply took his money and RUN!!! One could HARDLY blame him! I would go wherever a person was given a fair shake, where you were rewarded for HARD work, not PUNISHED!!! I would go to Israel, Australia and Ireland would both be high on my list but I believe that Jerusalem is the CENTER of the universe and that will become QUITE evident in the NEAR future!!! Keep your eyes on the skies, JESUS IS COMIN’! He LOVES y’all and so do I!!!

      • Tom W.

        11:45 AM CDST Sat. morn and NO Ben!!! WHAT’S UP BOB?!! I’m Jonesin’ here Bob, cum mon maaan! Help me put here Bro!!!

      • Robert Smith

        The capitol gains I’m talking about are those from the instruments used to extract money from the middle class.

        Like I said, I have no problem with someone who has a product and adds value to the economy.


      • Robert Smith

        From Dr.: “why is it that nobody ever talks about paper losses, just paper profit?”

        Because when an insurance company invests they make money. If they lose they simply charge higher premieums.

        When energy and food is speculated on those guys don’t lose, they simply raise prices.

        They are doing nothing but gambling and when the lose it comes out of the pockets of the middle class.


      • DaveH

        So Robert,
        The Liberal movie stars, producers, sports stars, Oprah, etc. also “extracted” their wealth from the middle class. Yet I’ve never seen you denigrate them. Why is that?
        The middle class willingly gave their money to all of those people including the Facebook Owners because they provided a service that the consumers thought was worth trading their earned money for. In the process, many people in that middle class found work with those “extractors”. Contrast that with the Health Care Insurance Mandate, or the taxpayer money which is taken from unwilling people to be used on various Progressive Pet Projects, etc. etc. etc. There is the Real Extraction. How do you Jealous Controlling Progressive people live with yourselves?

      • DaveH

        Mike in MI,
        I was indoctrinated in the Catholic Religion for 10 years of my youth. It was scary stuff to buck the Propaganda and wean myself from the indoctrination for several years, but I am very content with my beliefs. I suppose I got my introduction to morality from it, and for that I am grateful, but I actually took the morality that applied to my treatment of my fellow man seriously. I can’t say that for many of my still Catholic acquaintances who I still know.
        For instance, I take “Thou shalt not steal” much more seriously than the vast majority of religious people do. And I don’t care if that stealing is done in the name of Government or not — It’s still Stealing.
        I also take “Thou shalt not kill” much more seriously than the vast majority of religious people. And I don’t care if that killing is done in the name of Government or not — It’s still Killing.

      • Vigilant

        Robert Smith once again boldly goes where no reasonable man has gone before, with:

        “The capitol [sic] gains I’m talking about are those from the instruments used to extract money from the middle class.

        Like I said, I have no problem with someone who has a product and adds value to the economy.”

        (1) Tax data clearly show that “more middle class taxpayers benefit from these [capital gains tax] cuts than wealthy investors.” Capital gains are an example of PROVIDING TO THE MIDDLE CLASS, not “extracting” from it. For analysis, see

        (2) “No problem with someone who has a product and adds value to the economy?” You mean like gasoline, natural gas and coal? Or are you talking about those things like solar, wind and geothermal that EXTRACT money from the middle class through confiscatory taxes to fund unprofitable and failing industries?

        You are a psoter child example of Reagan’s famous statement “Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.”

      • Katrael

        P man, Dr David Hancock, I like both your remarks and especially Dr David Hancock’s about paper loses. I’m not sure of the actual numbers but I’d be willing to bet there are more short term losers than winners when it comes to investing in any endeavor in life. The winning difference is that winners don’t quit so why should they be penalized when they do win? Too many have turned the word profit around to mean “evil”.

        Those who cry about “fair share” are those who probably didn’t invest wisely and they never realized a “profit” so they are really jealous of anybody who succeeds. I’m not just talking about just financial investments; I’m including investing in a profession as an investment. Some people make really poor choices or become unhappy with the choices they voluntarily made.

      • Katrael

        Mike in MI, your assertion that conservative or progressive behaviors are determined by DNA is interesting. Any non conservative behavior would be anti- species and maybe our Creator was trying to limit the damage that could be done in a population when he promoted the death penalty for “progressive” behavior? What better way to control the spread of anti-species behavior caused by DNA than through the ultimate quarantine of death? If you can’t fix it get rid of it.

      • Mike in MI

        Katrael – You are very perceptive. Your thinking pretty much parallels mine, it seems. You would benefit from clicking on the link in Dave H’s box right below mine that you are referring to.
        After reading and listening to Dr. Haidt’s presentation to the TED
        group (found by following Haidt’s bio and presentation links) something suddenly became quite clear to me: Why, at some point, God is going to have to bring an end to things as we understand them now, send Jesus Christ back again and establish the Kingdom promised him 2,000 years ago.
        One of the socio-political characteristics of the atraditional genetic/developmental set of behaviors is a compelling seeking for variety in life. Observation of them reveals this at work especially in sexual matters. Gigolos dropping their genes all over the place and begetting lots of kids just like them. Women bearing many kids by various partners and leaving them for someone else to raise. Most of these people will also have Liberal political leanings and little regard for authority (another trait). Look at the defiance of police among OWSers and the number of Anarchists among them.
        Eventually, (it is predictable that) society will be broken down by their mental and behavioral antics. Culture can not persist amidst chaos – but, their numbers will outweigh and overpower any efforts of normal people. Any place in history where I can see Liberals getting the upper hand in theocratic or political authority they turn mean. So, at some point, God (having seen this eventuality coming a long time ago) will put His foot down and say, “It’s all yours, Son. Go take what is yours.”
        But, before that happens, I think God has some business to complete.

        • Katrael

          Mike in MI, it seems we agree with much. Your explanations of the breeding ability of progressives reminds me of something else. This may be very controversial but I can’t help but make a comparison: In the Old Testament the creator YHWH told his people that there were certain kinds of meat that were considered to be unclean and he told them not eat it. There is one characteristic that seems common to most, but not all, unclean animals: the ability to bring about numerous offspring at the same time. The opposite seems to be true for the “clean animals”: they generally seem capable of giving birth to only one or two offspring at a time. There are exceptions to both categories. My point: those “unclean progressives” are better left uneaten (not mixed with). It would seem to the progressive mind that there is nothing wrong with mixing (eating) with progressives but this notion has proven to be a mistake by any culture who attempts it. My opinion.

          I looked for that link you wanted to point out to me but when I went to find it in DaveH’s post right below your post it had apparently moved. I got caught up replying to Galt about his rant to DaveH. If you could share it with me I’d appreciate it.

    • DocBobalus

      Just an additional thought thrown in for fun…

      Wasn’t it “Excessive” taxes that England wanted to charge the colonies that started the creation of the Declaration of Independence and the origins of the United States?

      • Flashy

        Nope…it was having no say in deciding tax and british “colony” policy which was the main gripe from the colonists.

      • Vigilant

        Flashy is correct. “For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent” was number 17 on the list of over 20 grievances. Earlier up on the list are a number of grievances relating to lack of representation in other ways.

        In point of fact, the British taxes were generally very low; it was the principle that was challenged.

      • profhambone

        Could it be that the leaders of the 13 colonies (the money men) knew what a deal they had on this continent; just kill all the Native Americans, keep women from having a say, keep Africans in their place as slaves and then they would be richer than any of the Royal families of Europe. Now that is hard to sell to indentured servants, woman, and free men of Africa as well as men of no property. But if you wrap it up in “liberty” for all and write the documents so that all but men of property will control and possess the majority of wealth, wrap it up in patriotism so it becomes hidden as to the true purpose and viola…revolution and oligarchy! No matter how you read it the Constituion is in its original form, a sexist and racist document.

        • C. G Tayler, ND, CNC

          Now here is another mis-informed individual, obviously educated in our wonderful so called “free educational system!” Free at the high cost taxation of the American populace! And we sit back and take this type of ignorant educational prefabrication seriously?

          Is there any hope for truth emerging at this late hour?

          • Neil Wilson

            Today, we have one of the lowest rates of taxation in our history and possibly in the entire world.

            As to the OP’s original remarks, well….as I am Native American, I have my story about the Trail of Tears. So…..

          • C. G Tayler, ND, CNC

            Dear Neil: As in part, I am native American, ie. Black Feet, get a life. You obviously are also a product of our misinformed so-called “Free Educational System!”

          • Katrael

            Neil Wilson, you said, “Today, we have one of the lowest rates of taxation in our history and possibly in the entire world.” Do you really believe this, “in our history”? There were no income taxes placed on our people at the founding of this country and we didn’t have any until 1913. You apparently don’t understand that not all taxation is visible or comes from our federal government. There are a plethora of taxes that are imposed by the state, county and sometimes the cities we live in. The consumer pays ALL business and corporate taxes when they purchase goods and services. Even the person who rents property to live in or on pays the property taxes as the owner/landlord includes them in the rent or they would eventually loose their property to someone willing to pay the “rent”/tax that the government imposes on the real estate.

            Every social tax imposed by our government, such as workers comp and the 6.3% matching employer contribution to social security, gets built back into the price of goods and services. Some of the worker comp rates are over 50% of the gross earnings of a business however most only pay somewhere around 10%. That’s at least a 16% tax rate that the business buries into the cost of the product or service that the consumer then pays a “sales tax” on. And even if a business doesn’t charge the customer he docks his employees by lowering their take home pay for the cost of the taxes they have to pay. Either way it’s the lowest person on the totem pole that carries the burden of all of this taxation. We’re being fleeced every time we go to the store.

            There is no way to make businesses pay “their fair share” by denying them the ability to make a profit as they would go out of business and the workers would be without employment.

            Make no mistake with me that I’m in favor of “big business” as I’m not, I have no love for those who own them either.

          • C. G Tayler, ND, CNC

            Finally! An individual who has not been brain-washed by our so-called “free educational system!” What a breath of “fresh air!”

          • Katrael

            C. G Tayler, ND, CNC, they tried their best to brain muddy me. I’ve been wise to many of their lies for most of my adult life and actually I knew something was terribly wrong when I was a child. It’s hard to explain…or at least it’s too time consuming.

            I know this may sound like I’m some conspiracy nut and I guess I am but I’ve read several things over the years that claims that fluoride is really a mind control drug? I have no idea if this is true but it might explain why we have so many in this country who seem to be in a stupor? I’ve lived in the country for most of my life away from treated water and when I did visit the city I drank distilled water as I couldn’t stand the taste of chlorine. Most of my children are similar in opinion and the ones that are live in the country or drink distilled water. I don’t know? Here’s an excerpt from something I found on Bing: There is plenty more out there I just grabbed the first I came to.


            “At the end of the Second World War, the United States Government sent Charles Eliot Perkins, a research worker in chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology, to take charge of the vast Farben chemical plants in Germany.

            “While there he was told by the German chemists of a scheme which had been worked out by them during the war and adopted by the German General Staff.

            “This was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water. In this scheme, sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place.

            “Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual’s power to resist domination by slowly poisoning and narcotising a certain area of the brain and will thus make him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him.

            “Both the Germans and the Russians added sodium fluoride to the drinking water of prisoners of war to make them stupid and docile.”

            And still later in this piece of literature aoubt “Perkins”: “I say this in all earnestness and sincerity of a scientist who has spent nearly 20 years research into the chemistry, bio-chemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorine: any person who drinks artificially fluorinated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person, mentally or physically.”

            This is scary stuff if this is true.

          • C. G Tayler, ND, CNC

            Quite right on fluoridation issue. but there is far more related to even naturally occuring fluoride in the water and much more damage than merely the brain!

            Don’t apologize to the “LOUD MOUTH” Dummy downs who decry your knowledge, for they like all their ilk, will suffer the pains of the coming Communist agenda. Their children will live 20 to a room, like the poor being in Russia and in China, among many other communist countries. Those who prefer the so-called alternative life style will be eliminated and will not have a choice about it.

            Naturally we, who have common sense which they would expatriate to one of the countries who’s life style they so lovingly embrace!

          • Katrael

            C. G Tayler, ND, CNC, I’m sure you’re right about there being other side effects even fatal ones. I’m not sure if there is a link between fluoride and osteoporosis but I’ll bet there is? Poisons seldom work on just one organ or system.

            Those who play into the hands of those politicians who seem progressive will be toast when they are no longer needed. there is but one agenda: dominate as many as possible and eliminate those that can’t be dominated and those who are worthless.

    • Nanna Gail

      Gillysrooms in Australia: From one Aussie, currently residing in USA, to another Aussie back home, let me tell you. The politicians over here are arrogant, self serving, greeedy, liars. Yeah I know, we have a few like that over there too. But over here these days, all the politicians think about, is how to take more and more from their constituents to line THEIR pockets and give more power to the Unions.
      However, as to the Capital Gains tax, the state I live in, Oregon has just had a vote on getting these reduced and eventaully abolished by, I believe, 2016, in OUR STATE. I haven’t heard the result yet, so will have to ask my husband what happened. I am so busy, online most of the day, with fighting so much of the political garbage going on, I hardly get time to blow my nose, so to speak.
      I used to keep in touch with a couple of the people I knew in Australia, but, over the years, they have moved or died, and I have lost all my contacts. The only one I hear from now is my sister in Queensland.
      Just a word of warning. Watch Ms. Gillard. Since she came over here and met with obmbler, she has started trying to implement some of the crap HE has done here. If you people down there don’t want to have to fight like we here in America are fighting, for FREEDOM, LIBERTY AND CIVIL RIGHTS, be very, very watchful and careful of her.

      • Richard Pawley

        Like Chip I have no intention of leaving the USA, because when we go down the drain the whole earth will not become some sort of Nirvana, but a true hell hole. That said I need to add my small voice to those crying out to congress to stop catering to the powers that be and consider the people you represent, and the country. As it is they are fast destroying the dollar and the economy.

        I ran away from home once when I was 14 and was going to try and make it to Australia where a missing uncle had once been a partner in a diamond mine until he disappeared. I tell about both and more in my autobiography (which is much more than just my story) which is available on amazon dot com and elsewhere, but more importantly I mention those I talked with before they left this country. I didn’t talk with many but six out of seven told me that they were leaving because of the economy AND THAT WAS BACK DURING GEORGE BUSH’S FIRST TERM WHEN THINGS WERE RELATIVELY GOOD. Even then these smart people could see that hard times, economically, that were coming (they still are) and the 200,000 to 300,000 a year who left during the Bush Administration have been dwarfed by the nearly THREE MILLION a YEAR who have been leaving since the current administration has come into power. However, only a tiny percentage of both groups are actually renouncing their citizenship. Oddly enough most that I interviewed were not going to the most popular countries listed in this article, but Israel, South Africa, Panama and one Texan was even moving to Mexico but far from the border and the major cities. Even so I was amazed at that because I would put moving to or even visiting Mexico on a par with vacationing it the Middle East, and I don’t mean tiny Israel. No wonder millions of Mexicans have done all they could do to get out of there and move north. I pointed out in a more recent book that Mexico has built a border fence along it’s southern border because they don’t want all the millions who have come from countries south of there (over a million from Ecuador alone) who were moving through Mexico to the USA. Mexico tends to think of the USA as being theirs alone.

        I also lost interest in Australia however, when I discovered that the Progressives there outlawed citizens protecting themselves and crime skyrocketed as it had in Scotland, Ireland, England, and even Washington, DC, when only the criminals had guns. I still enjoy Bega cheese because I know the cows in Australia don’t get treated the way they do here or get fed the GMO corn that ours are fed. Likewise canned Red Feather Butter from New Zealand is absolutely great and that was after it sat on the floor of a closet for two years without refrigeration. They too do not allow artificial bovine hormones that force cows to give 20% more milk. I can’t think of any advice to give you but be aware that we are headed for some big time inflation (at least a tripling of prices) and having a good garden of heirloom seeds and a good pantry of non-perishable food is already better than money in the bank (which is paying about 1%) while food is going up about 10% a year, some things much more. Yes, we are living in some of the most interesting times that have ever been and soon they are going to get a whole lot more interesting. God help us!

      • Katrael

        Nanna Gail, capital gains taxes are but one evil tax that needs to be done away with. Another is the confiscatory property tax. Why should anyone’s home or property be subject to confiscation if someone can’t pay a property tax? I guess that I’m one of the few that view these taxes this way; especially the property tax.

    • Warrior

      The time is drawing very near that “progressives” will have to crawl back in their holes. It will be sooner than you think. Say good bye little harry, nancy, baaaraaak, chuckie, and all the rest of you marxists

      More Americans are awakening every day to who the real enemy of freedom is.

  • MAP

    That someone would flee the country rather than pay their gargantuan share of the next leftist disaster is downright unpatriotic. Only government knows how to spend someone else’s money wisely.

    • newmansblog

      You hit the nail on the head!!

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Miguel Stroe

        I agree with you 150%. This ‘democrats’ and RINOs know only one thing, grow the government on the back of the middle class, i.e. more government, more intrusion and less money in the pocket of the average citizen…

    • DaveH

      Yep. It’s all about funding the Big Government Gang. The rest of the Progressives are just dupes being used as pawns by those Progressive Leaders.

      • Hey You

        Yes, you’ve got the picture. It’s simply “Big Government Gang”! Typical activity when that gang can pull stuff which they can get away with.

      • GALT

        WARNING, WARNING………The following post is one of a series, that will continue until a resolution occurs, my apologies to other poster’s on this site, and to Mr. Livingston, our host. Please feel free to skip over what is written here, as it may or may not be related to the topic under discussion………

        For Mr. DavidH: Sir, recently I have offered you a chance to engage in an “intelligent debate”, that despite what you may believe, I am not your enemy or anyone else’s here, and that if you find my post’s to be as incomprehensible as you claim, then the best course of action would be simply to ignore them and to engage “others” who are willing to waste their time in mindless exchanges which are of no consequence. Since it would appear that none of these options seems to be acceptable to you and you continue to demonstrate that you are incapable of intelligent discussion on any topic, have no conception of the rules of logic ( see Aristotle ) or what a “logical fallacy” actually is and you will not STOP, you leave me no choice but to take the required steps to resolve this problem.

        DavidH: ” Ohhh, you’ve read books, Galt. I’m so impressed.As usual, you provide nothing but fallacious tangential arguments that prove nothing. If you really did your homework, you’d know that all those things are Theories, and that is all.”

        David, I am sorry for having read books……for most people, this is the primary means of acquiring information, organizing it and determining whether or not any of it has any valid pragmatic value and can be extended to reach beyond what is known, to that which is not, and to integrate what is useful for the purposes of better understanding and achieving if possible, better results. In circles where this is the common means of acquiring information ( a.k.a. education ) it is also common practice to acknowledge ones sources as well as to extend credit to those responsible for the “ideas” or “discoveries” one is referencing. To fail to do this suggests a lack of discipline, as well as the possibility of plagiarism. You seem to have some vague understanding of this, since you are constantly posting links…….my list of books is offered for the same purpose……unfortunately, all of them are recent and to my knowledge are not available for free, except at the public library, which means that if you wish to understand the sources of information that I have used to reach my conclusions or to dispute them, then you will actually have to read them, although in many instances, the foundational ideas can be confirmed in any number of places.

        In science, the empirical discipline, the term Theory has a specific and rigorous set of requirements…….a scientific Theory is one where all the available evidence has been accounted for, yet certain aspects are not precisely known, which leads to the second requirement, falsifiability.

        For this I offer this definition: The criterion of falsifiability is a solution to this problem of demarcation, for it says that statements or systems of statements, in order to be ranked as scientific, must be capable of conflicting with possible, or conceivable, observations.
        The link is for a greater understanding if you are truly ignorant of what is for most educated and intelligent people, quite common knowledge and can be confirmed in any number of places, if the above link is not sufficient for you.

        DavidH:” So answer me with something intelligent, Galt — How does the universe end? And please don’t bore me with tangential issues like Big Bang that have nothing to do with whether or not the universe ends, and certainly nothing to do with whether or not Capitalism is sustainable.”

        Asked and answered, DavidH. for all the the above: entropy and the Laws of Thermo Dynamics. ( please note, these are not premised by the word Theory, so whether you actually understand what a scientific Theory is, is irrelevant and you may verify what entropy is, as well as the Laws, from any source you like. )

        As explained, the universe is finite…..this is based on the available evidence and the fact that, there is NO evidence available to suggest anything else, nor is there any evidence of anything that physically exists in the universe which is infinite. ( unfortunately, since you also do not understand that “infinity” is a “mathematical property”, you have been asked to produce an example of any existing physical component of this universe, which is infinite. )

        Of the three theories (scientific) that existed: steady state, continuous creation and the big bang, only the last has survived…..and is currently referred to as the standard model, which includes inflation and is considered confirmed by “microwave backround radiation”. If you are ignorant of any of this, each of these elements, can again be easily be found and verfied; if you wish to dispute any of this, simply submit your arguments to any scientific journal for publication.

        How the universe ends is therefor easily understood, being finite, it will eventually, exhaust all of the available potential energy, and grow dark and cold……again, The Laws of Thermo Dynamics which includes entropy is all that is required to understand why this is true. The final geometry has so far been undertermined, ( flat, open, closed ) but recent evidence has been advanced to support an open geometry, or possibly flat ( which doesn’t really mean flat ) and again, if you are ignorant regarding what these terms mean, they are common knowledge and easiliy found; any dispute you might have you may register with the appropriate authorities as indicated above.

        As for how the Laws of Thermo Dynamics and entropy, invalidate all current economic models, including capitalism as well as why and how these are “unsustainable” because they require “continuous growth”, this explanation has already been attempted…..and will no doubt be explained again……but if you actually seek better understanding, then “Economics Unmasked” by Smith and Max-Neel is the appropriate source.

        DavidH: ” You’re an ignoramus, Galt, who apparently has no cognitive ability of his own if it isn’t in a book.”

        Well David, I am a bit confused by your claim and your assertion. Please tell me by what method you acquired the knowledge you claim to possess? Do you actually know the meaning of “cognitive ability” ? Why is it that the only “ignorance” in evidence here, is yours?

        1.) You do not know what a “scientific theory” is, or what entropy or the Laws of Thermo Dynamics are.

        2.) You do not understand……..yet have openly conceded that, both economics and your own favored version, capitalism……has no scientific basis or empirical foundation…….and that your favored version of that, the austrian school makes no such attempt……because it is impossible to do……….which is exactly why economics itself is not valid…….that means all of it.

        DavidH: “I’ve worked with your kind (unfortunately) almost everywhere I’ve been employed. The kind who learn enough big words to snow the ignorant. But they’ve always been underperformers of their assigned tasks. All talk and no production. Which likely explains why you embrace Progressivism. The losers generally do.”

        Well David, I am very happy that you have been successfull at finding employment, however, you have never met my kind, nor do you know anything about me………and it is foolish to claim that you do.

        You have the answer to the one question you asked here. As usual, this response which is included in it’s entirety, contains no answers to any of the questions asked of you nor does it offer any valid arguments, for what you claim to be “incomprehensible, double speak” yet can not manage to provide any “evidence” for or “produce evidence” against.

        Unless you are really Winston Smith and have the ability to alter “history”……you may wish to either craft a relevant response which actually attempts a logically reasoned argument……or avoid responding all together…….as you can see ( although you probably can not ) you do not present anything approaching what I would consider either a challenge and even a usefull exercise, and I do not really have the time to waste to continually demonstrate this…….but I will if you insist.

        BTW one of requirements will be my insistence that you provide the answers to the questions asked of you……and each time you do not, they will be repeated until you do, so craft your response to this (if you must respond) wisely.
        Que, sera, sera!

      • Vigilant

        And GALL the broken record says again, “As for how the Laws of Thermo Dynamics and entropy, invalidate all current economic models, including capitalism as well as why and how these are “unsustainable” because they require “continuous growth”,..

        It’s positively amusing, if not downright pitiful, that any human being can, with a straight face, even attempt to relate general physical laws with man made economic systems.

        Had he an ounce on intellectual integrity, he would see (and give utterance to) an admission that entropy invalidates ALL human existence itself in the Universe. To focus on only ONE aspect of human endeavor is to go from the sublime to the ridiculous. Even your half baked theories will be invalidated sonny,

        Here’s news for you and others who have the GALL to make such claims: The effects of entropy will not become of immediate concern to anyone living, nor to anyone living in the next hundreds of billions of years. It is a grindingly slow process that will at some time in the geological and astronomical future create completely even distribution of matter/energy. It has no serious or urgent relationship to ANY human consumption trends. Human intelligence is decidedly anti-entropic in nature, and will be forging order out of chaos for some considerable time to come.

        No sane living person will either give credence to, or have any need to worry about, something that will not have an effect on human existence for a billion generations to come. You might as well worry about when the Sun explodes. A hint for you: by all means live in the distant future, but don’t try to foist ridiculous claims upon reasonably intellligent people unlike yourself.

      • Michael J.

        Warning… Warning… Warning Will Robinson, Galt thinks he’s Dr. Smith and we’re all lost in space.

        But really, you ask how will the universe end? Personally speaking, I think that expansion is followed by contraction in a cyclical manner.
        Since space travel is still in it’s infancy and research is really just the babbling of overeducated grant grabbers with a penchant for sensationalism, my standing as a shadetree cosmoligist is at least as valid as the scientist pushing the global warming hoax.

        You asked, finite or infinity?
        Well, your post are actually finite, they just seem to go to I…..N…..F…..I…..N…..I…..T…..Y…..
        I don’t suppose you’ve ever received any accolades for brevity.

        Question for you, What is the measure of vacumm in outerspace?
        And is the measure of vacuum presently increasing, decreasing or static and unchanging.

      • DaveH

        You’re a useless blowhard, Galt. You’re going to have to wait a long time for the resolution because I don’t waste my time with illogical idiots whose only talents are in snowing ignorant people who don’t know enough to know that you are an idiot. And the problem, Galt, as evidenced by your ridiculous comments, is that you are too ignorant to understand any rebuttal I may give anyway.
        For those who don’t know, the whole thing started with the Progressives talking about the unsustainability of Capitalism (their current mantra). Somehow Ignoramus thinks talking about the infinity (or lack of) of space has anything at all to do with the sustainability of Capitalism.
        Seek help, Dork.

      • DaveH

        I think perhaps, Michael, that Galt, being the ignoramus that he is, didn’t understand what I meant by the End of the Universe. I didn’t mean ending as being destroyed. I meant as in having bounds. If something is finite, then it has bounds. But if it has bounds, what are the bounds, where do the bounds end, and what is on the other side of the bounds? The concept of a limitless Universe is beyond the realm of human cognizance, and certainly beyond the cognitive abilities of the Ignoramus Galt (unless he reads it in a book somewhere).

      • GALT

        And of course you couldn’t resist….feeling strong are we? a little democratic?

        WARNING, WARNING………The following post is one of a series, that will continue until a resolution occurs, my apologies to other poster’s on this site, and to Mr. Livingston, our host. Please feel free to skip over what is written here, as it may or may not be related to the topic under discussion………

        Today’s episode is titled, the mind of David H. in action, which might suggest that it might be exciting…..but don’t get your hopes up….it is not.

        In response to my list of recommended books to read;

        DaveH says:
        May 31, 2012 at 2:53 pm
        Galt, the great Book Title name-dropper.
        The thing is, Galt, whether you have actually read those books or not is meaningless because you show no evidence of having learned anything useful.

        …….which he quickly follow up with……..

        DaveH says:
        May 31, 2012 at 3:02 pm
        “Lords of Finance”, written by Liaquat Ahamed, a former World Bank economist.
        Oh yeah, we can expect a non-political view from him.

        GALT says:
        May 31, 2012 at 6:34 pm
        To DavidH;
        Since you have not read the Lords of Finance, how would you know what was contained in it or any of the other books on the list?

        It is essentially a history book, covering the period between 1920 and 1945, concentrating on the central banker’s of the period and the nations involved, the conditions at the time and the actions they took…….it does not make any judgement regarding the results, it simply provides information regarding the forces at work, the interests of the various players involved, and the decisions made.
        If you wish to challenge the factual nature of the history it relates, then the intelligent approach would be to actually read the book, or find a source which has already done so.

        Once again, however, you have chosen to attempt to dismiss that which you have no knowledge of, with an opinion you have no evidence for…….
        to which our fearless champion of the austrian school retorts:

        DaveH says:
        May 31, 2012 at 7:00 pm

        Did I say I knew what it contained, Galt?

        NO DAVID I SAID WHAT I SAID WHICH WAS: Once again, however, you have chosen to attempt to dismiss that which you have no knowledge of, with an opinion you have no evidence for…….

        BECAUSE YOU SAID:“Lords of Finance”, written by Liaquat Ahamed, a former World Bank economist. Oh yeah, we can expect a non-political view from him.

        You haven’t exactly impressed me with your knowledge. Rather you spend most of your comments to me trying to disparage me. That is a sure sign of weakness of knowledge.
        When you do speak factually, Galt, it rarely makes any sense.

        AT WHICH POINT THE SUBJECT IS QUICKLY CHANGED, however this particular book does have a certain “history” regarding my presence here as it was included in one of my first postings, and the only time Mr. Livingston has felt motivated to respond to me by commenting or claiming that my interpretation of this period was “revisionist”, and for which I immediately asked for clarification……….which was not forthcoming from Bob.
        The mind of David H. remains undaunted however and of course there is nothing he does not know and can not answer……until you actually ask a question…….

        DaveH says:
        May 31, 2012 at 12:01 pm
        For those who would like to Learn about the scientific aspects of Economics from an expert rather than from a guy who blames the Gold Standard for the Great Depression:

        NOW THIS COMMENT APPEARS ON THE SAME DAY but slightly earlier…….it is an unattributed reference to me, and the history contained in the Lords of Finance and it presents a number of problems for those who favor a return to the gold standard…which someone maybe able to argue or reconcile, but this has not been done by David H or anyone else here, nor has it been attempted: the following is a list of the FACTS.

        1.) While the Federal Reserve Bank was created in 1913, it did not operate as it does now, with a national monetary policy directed by the Chairman of the Federal Reserve. Individual member banks were free to set whatever “monetary policy” was appropriate for their districts.

        2.) Because of the presence of Wall St, the N.Y. Fed and it’s head, Benjamin Strong, was the primary player for U.S. banking interests in conjunction with the heads of of the european central banks, where the key players are Britain, France and Germany.

        3.) After the close of WWI, the United States was not only still on the Gold Standard, but controlled (owned) 75% t0 80% of the worlds supply of gold. None of the other players above were, but because this was the prevailing economic theory ( not to be confused with the rigor required for a scientific theory ) the desire to return to it was a primary motivation for all.

        WE RETURN NOW TO THE MIND OF DAVID H: “For those who would like to Learn about the scientific aspects of Economics ”
        SCIENTIFIC, AT LEAST AT 12:01 pm……….

        4.) For the United States economically the “Roaring Twenties” was a good time for all, despite prohibition…..but the economies of europe, were another story all together…..and the primary problem was the conditions imposed by the Treaty of Versailles and the various problems and interests of the above named european players.

        5.) Benjamin Strong became friends with his British counterpart a man named if memory serves named Morgantheau, and for the British, returning to the gold standard became somewhat problematic…with the pound sterling fluctuating with market conditions and a sort of paralysis……which involved a policy of “austerity” similar to what is now occuring….and where Maynard Keynes begins to assert, that this may be the wrong approach. ( everyone is a bit put off, but the common man extremely so, and because of the austerity position, one see’s both a suffragette movement and strikes among laborers )

        6.) France is particularly vehement regarding the reparations required, manages to return to the gold standard, and deftly maneuvers itself……to gain the advantage and essentailly prevent Germany from any relief from what it feels is it’s due. “That vengeance is a dish best served cold” would become a little clearer a bit further on…..
        7.) Strangely, S & M ( no pun intended ) manage to provide some short term fixes for Germany…but France remains immovable…..and of course, under these conditions, risk of loans to Germany offer a higher ROI. ( de ja vu all over again )

        8.) Meanwhile back in the promised land of the magical gold standard, things are heating up……….as in Wall St and the stock market……….

        9.) The problem with the GOLD STANDARD and/or the concept of sound money is that inflation can NOT be prevented…….if one has a banking system which permits “fractional reserves”, it can not be avoided. To attempt to do so poses the problem of “liquidity” and the “growth required” comes to a screeching halt.

        10.) This particular period of history, represents a “perfect storm” of economic theory, which is complete crap anyway, but as stated previously: “it is not without purpose.” ( what that purpose is will not be revealed in this episode. )

        11.) In addition to the inflationary propensity inherent in “fractional reserve” banking……..we now get to add the “leverage” provided by “margins” which compounds the risk for this period by enormous amounts, since a margin of only 10% was required to play, which seems to indicate what would amount to a 900% inflationary increase of the actual “money” available, assuming that these margin figures are correct?

        12.) The final element of this “perfect storm” now asserts itself with the “global bubble effect”….since the only non stagnant economy is the United States, which IS on the GOLD STANDARD, all available capital in the WORLD seeks the only market which offers an ROI…… what do YOU think happens…….DUH? ( this was not the ” first great sucking sound “, nor will it be the last. )

        13.) The final piece of this is the decision of Benjamin Strong and Herbert Hoover to allow this to continue…….. which in Fed speak is: they did NOT raise interest rates, which brings my story to a close…….the book continues on and it is worth the read……
        I have no clue, what elements of this “history” the MIND of DAVIDH. objects to…….but this should seem, even in my brief attempt to convey the essential elements, that THIS HISTORY is repeating itself, with far more profound implications and effects than the last time……..

        In closing, I would like to sum up, which requires a brief return to a previous point above where David, changes the subect…. this continues…..

        Galt says — “The discipline of economics has no value because it has no empirical connection to the universe which we inhabit”.

        The Austrian Economists don’t even try to back their economic discipline with empirical evidence because it is virtually impossible to predict what diverse populations of people with disparate ideas, needs, and desires are going to do in the marketplace from one year to the next. Economics isn’t like the natural sciences where they are dealing with a small number of factors which can be studied by experimentation. In the Marketplace the factors (mainly characteristics of fickle human beings) are almost limitless.

        IT WOULD SEEM THAT THE SCIENTIFIC ASPECT OF ECONOMICS took approximately 7 hours to disappear……….

        Now as I warned, from an intellectual point of view this is boring and if you (not you david & co ) actually ignored the warning and read this, I did strive for educational and entertainment value.

        For DAVIDH………this is NOT going to get any better for you, and I do not require any logical fallacies or personal attacks to demonstrate this……..YOU ARE ALL I NEED.

        By the way, what I am seeking is a ” vu ja de ” experience.

        It’s okay to ask or even tell if YOU ( not you David ) know what I’m alluding to.

      • GALT

        for Michael J…….excellent, you favor the “closed” geometry, which is a confirmation that the universe is finite……..after all if it expands and then contracts, it can not be INFINITE.

        This would seem to put you in conflict with DavidH….so maybe you can help him out.

        ( or did you not understand this? did you make a mistake? wanna take it back? )

        Actually, infinity is mathematical……so even if the geometry were open and the universe
        were to expand forever……this is still not infinite. ( and entropy ( heat death ) would still
        occur. )

        The concept of space ( itself ) does get a little tricky here, and it would seem, that space itself does not exist, until something else does.

        As I offered David, if you would care to dispute any of this, write a paper… will be famous…….

      • GALT

        For Vigilant…….( still a mystery as to how or to what you are vigilant of )

        The Laws of Thermo Dynamics ( which include entropy ) operate continuously, and you are currently experiencing the effects and if you ignore them, this planet will be unable to sustain even the simplest forms of life, in the very near future.

        It was a common argument to attempt to challenge the Laws of Thermo Dynamics, by using earth as an example of the possible violation of the second law. ( easy search )

        Our earth seemed to be gaining energy, rather than losing it……but entropy and the laws of Thermodynamics operate on a system basis……universal entropy will indeed take a very long time……..but our system is essentially defined by our sun, so the effects are local…… this works is again, an easy search.

        Or you can read Economics Unmasked…….you also do not seem to grasp that DavidH
        is completely confused as to whether “economics” is scientific or not…. See todays episode…….so you might want to let him handle this by himself…….because at the moment
        ( and I know you really can’t comprehend what is being said ) your support seems a bit misdirected…….

        have a nice day……

      • DaveH

        Galt says it all with this little piece of logic (or lack thereof):
        “The problem with the GOLD STANDARD and/or the concept of sound money is that inflation can NOT be prevented…….if one has a banking system which permits “fractional reserves”, it can not be avoided. To attempt to do so poses the problem of “liquidity” and the “growth required” comes to a screeching halt”.
        Two problems with that illogical statement:
        1) The “fractional reserve” system is an entity apart from the Gold Standard. It would be like saying that the current day mostly Socialistic System, that we labor under, is proof that Capitalism doesn’t work. Uh, wait a minute — Liberals do say that.
        But Maybe Fractional Banking, when not taken to extreme could work, but the banks would need to be honest about that fact to their customers, and thus the customers would know that they may not get their gold back if there was a run on the bank. If the Government would butt out, in the event of a run, the bank could not satisfy its creditors (the customers) so it would have to declare bankruptcy. No bailouts with involuntary taxpayer money. Hopefully the customers would learn from that and the banks would learn from that. At any rate, the customers would be voluntarily subjecting themselves to that risk, unlike currently when few people even know about the Fractional Banking issue.
        Another more equitable route for banks to pursue if they wanted to lend out more than they have reserves for at any given time would be to issue Time Deposits. They would know at any given time which deposits are maturing and therefore how many reserves they must have on hand at that time.
        At any rate, calling Gold money unworkable because Banks have instituted Fractional Banking is a just plain fallacious argument, like I’ve come to expect from Galt.
        2) Galt is back to the “growth required” paradigm which Liberals love to fallaciously use to denigrate Capitalism. There IS growth of economy under Capitalism (when unfettered by Government) due to people’s physical and mental creative energies. And more so than under any other known system, but there is no requirement for growth. If, for instance, people were quite content with having one car every ten years, then companies would exist that just provided that one car every ten years. No growth but content customers. The “growth requirement” is purely a Progressive invention which has no legs. Growth or no growth, Capitalism would still trump any other system known to man.
        Galt, if you would just read this book, you would be well on the road to having some common sense about Capitalism:

        It’s Free, Galt. So you have no excuses not to read it.
        On the other hand, I’m not sure I’d want you on my side with your penchant for Snowing people in lieu of just providing pertinent facts, and your penchant for personally attacking people if you can’t win factually.

      • GALT

        well, at least that was an attempt at a logical argument…….unfortunately you missed the context in which it was offered……which was in the historical context of 1919 thru 1929,
        the gold standard was in place, the U.S. held 80% of the world’s gold, and fractional reserve requirements were part of the system……..

        historically, banks have always been tempted to exceed assets……after all, transporting any physical currency is a pain……and subject to mischief…..enter multiple branches, and the use of bank drafts………this system is detailed for the Rothchilde’s and other’s..

        so are you conceding the history of the book you won’t read…..?

        what happened to the scientific aspects of economics? That lasted 7 hours….even with your link…….

        it only gets worse…….see ya!

      • ….

        This whole exchange reminds me of the requirements to read”great literature” in school.You could make a lot of money here just by writing a synopsis.
        ALSO, if you want to change people’s opinions, do so in plain english. Remember Will Rogers? People understood easily and he didn’t insult them in the process.
        ALSO, If you’re challenging someone do so without name calling or obscenity. You sound a lot more intelligent.

      • DaveH

        With all the time you spend trying to win by disparaging me, Galt, you could have instead read this book by one of the greatest thinkers of our time (which link I post often):
        Rothbard tells all about the Strong/Norman connection and Norman’s push for an unrealistic dollar/pound exchange ratio. But Rothbard’s treatment is from a non-political Austrian Economist point of view. Of course, if you did read the book it would cause you discomfort given all the time you’ve been spouting misinformation. So maybe it’s best that you remain ignorant and, instead of logical facts, personally attack me (as if that makes you correct).

      • GALT

        David there is no TRY,,,,,,,and this is not disparagement of any kind on my part, this is EXPOSURE……..

        I am curious as to why my reading what you can not seem to express is so important to you…..or did you forget about your link to the claimed “scientific” aspects or economics
        and the fact that you completely contradicted yourself within 7 hours?

        Also I do not employ logical fallacies…..the evidence suggests…. that is all you are capable of………see you on Monday……

      • Michael J.

        Definitely finite, it’s the only thing that makes sense.Proponents of the infinite universe theory expect us to believe it started and will end with nothing, a concept hard to swallow for Earth bound mortals from a finite sphere.

        OK, now see above, short, terse and succinct. In contrast, your post are so long that I have to stop in the middle and shave again. You would produce an Enyclopeadia Britanica to define the word “it”. While you may be content with breaking everything down to it’s lowest common denominator, everyday people who exist where the rubber meets the road require only working truths than can be relied on for daily usage. They have no need for molecular disection, time tested solutions will do just fine. They don’t have the time for counting Quarks, they have to get to work.

        Are you a career student? Alumni for eternity? If so I understand your addiction to “Critical Theory”. But unaware victims like yourself should realize that having this monkey on your back leads to terminal paralysis, the inability to make descisions leaves you stagnated, Stuck in nuetral and unable to lead a normal life. In an effort to aqquaint yourself with your affliction, you should search: “The Origins of Political Correctness” and “The Frankfurt School”. It will be most rewarding, Marx my words. Learn for yourself, of the 100 year mission to seek out new naive minds and new coruptable civilizations. To boldly go where no Socialist has gone before. It’s simple, just type in the above named references and beam yourself up.

        That’s it for now, I have to go to work and pay taxes, professors everywhere are counting on me to finance their grant money.

      • DaveH

        The only exposure we’re getting here, Galt, is your complete lack of logical skills. Like your claim that the US holding 80% of the Gold would in any way provide a causal link to your claim that the Gold Standard caused the Great Depression.
        There were many commodities that the US had more of than any other country. But to claim that indicated that any of them were the cause of the Great Depression would be as ignorant as your claim about Gold.
        Perhaps you can explain to the readers why you hold such a position. And please refrain from looking up big words like disintermediation or quarks or any other such pretentious efforts to snow the readers. If you know your subject well, you can just explain it in simple terms.
        But please, above all, keep posting your nonsense, because it’s important to me that the readers know what Progressives are really made of. The more people learn your manipulative methods (personal attacks, loads of BS, emotional rather than logical arguments, and many others) the more they can resist your influence.

      • Mike in MI

        Michael J – Laugh-laugh, I thought I’d die.
        You should be writing for Colbert or Stewart. Then they might be worth a little yukkity-uppin’ once in a while.
        Please, keep it comin’.

      • DaveH

        And Michael, if the universe is “definitely finite”, than you must know something the rest of us don’t. What are the bounds? What are they made of? How thick are the bounds? What is on the other side of the bounds? Where is your evidence of such bounds?
        There are some things that are just incomprehensible for people. That explains the comfort of religious faith. Don’t get me wrong, as I have absolutely no problem with religious people as long as they don’t try to force their way on me. In fact, I would have no problem with Ignorant Progressives if they weren’t trying to Force their ways on me. But they are.

      • Mike in MI

        GALT – Get over yourself.
        Your ravenous appetite to prove you’re worth something is causing you to be eaten up.
        The non-nutritive character of feeding on your own ego as you do will cause you to die of malnutrition…a short order cook’s delight.

      • DaveH

        And Galt, you need to re-read your books. “Morgantheau” was not the British counterpart of Benjamin Strong, it was Montagu Norman, head of the Bank of England.
        Henry Morgenthau, Jr. was the Treasury for Roosevelt.
        It’s all in “A History of Money and Banking in the United States” that I’ve linked to previously, for any curious readers to see.
        And for those who’d like to know what the real reasons for the Depression were and how Progressive Government Intervention prolonged it, please read this:

        Thank you Mises Institute for making it easy for people to learn what’s really going on.

      • DaveH

        Treasury Secretary that is.


        On a recent visit to Asheville, North Carolina, I learned that the Biltmore House came into existence only because there were no taxes or government agents putting their hands into the private citizen’s pockets, and thereby, the citizen was able to build his dream house and create many jobs for individuals who desired to work and earn a living. Once the government created and imposed all sorts of taxes and became the extortionists, the Vanderbilt decendents had no choice but to open their Biltmore House to the general public in order to continue the preservation of this national treasure and the continueous employment of nearly 2,000 employees. The politicians continue to dip their hands into every private citizen’s pockets. Now you know why we are no longer the wealthiest nation in the world.

        USAF (RET)

      • GALT

        To DavidH. and company……..

        The phrase “if memory serves” did have a purpose, thank you for providing the proper
        spelling of the name……or in this case the “proper” identity of Strong’s British counter part, now I need you do something very special here David, because you keep referring to “logical argument”…….I need you to acknowledge that your “correctly
        identifying” does not carry any logical weight, can you do that?

        BTW I wouldn’t need to re-read the book, to correctly identify the british banker and as library books must be returned, it was not available for reference……to compound matters
        while I also refer to the primary german and French bankers, I couldn’t even begin to guess what their names might be……..

        If you can, let’s see if we can make a bit more progress in understanding what a logical argument really consists of…….

        “Like your claim that the US holding 80% of the Gold would in any way provide a causal link to your claim that the Gold Standard caused the Great Depression.”

        The amount of gold reserves the U.S. held is a “fact”…… are the other points made…
        and all of these things together……..pose a problem for those who advocate a return to
        the Gold Standard……..and would also apply to any “other form” of “physical money”
        as a medium of exchange………

        There were a “lot” of things going on……..which was what the list was for…….

        Also attempting to “isolate” a piece, as you attempted to do with “fractional reserve” requirements……… saying:

        1) The “fractional reserve” system is an entity apart from the Gold Standard.

        Actually “Fractional Reserve Requirements” are an attempt to provide “liquidity” to an “economic system or theory”………..which system or theory, is essentially irrelevant,
        ……… involves a guess, and depending how accurate that guess is, as in too much or too little, one experiences the effects……balance, inflation or deflation and you already know this because you have said as much yourself… then continue with:

        ” It would be like saying that the current day mostly Socialistic System, that we labor under, is proof that Capitalism doesn’t work. Uh, wait a minute — Liberals do say that.”

        This actually has no relevance here, first because you keep trying to change my argument……….which is:

        ” the history contained in the Lords of Finance and it presents a number of problems for those who favor a return to the gold standard…which someone maybe able to argue or reconcile, but this has not been done by David H or anyone else here, nor has it been attempted: the following is a list of the FACTS.”

        Now there is a big difference between “presents a number of problems” which is what I said:


        “Like your claim that the US holding 80% of the Gold would in any way provide a causal link to your claim that the Gold Standard caused the Great Depression.”

        which I didn’t say. The reason for the list, is the attempt to include all the forces that were in play and how each contributed to the end result……these forces are in play now, with the exception of the “Gold Standard”……….but being on a Gold Standard
        did not prevent what happened in 1929… happened in spite of it, and the fact that the “Gold Standard” was the “current economic conventional wisdom”, it also affected the behavior of each of the players…….in their attempts to return to it.

        “But Maybe Fractional Banking, when not taken to extreme could work, but the banks would need to be honest about that fact to their customers, and thus the customers would know that they may not get their gold back if …….”

        Now this is true for a lot of things…..If not taken to the extreme, if not done to excess, etc………but each of the elements “involved”, provoked certain behavior on the part of each of the individual participants………..because the goals were different……for each of the individual participants………and finding the “ideal solution” for everyone, would require that all of them……were committed to that outcome and had the patience
        to co-operate to achieve that result……unfortunately, we do not seem to be capable
        of that kind of behavior………..

        One of the “elements” that was not on the list was…….even though the Gold Standard was in place, and the price of Gold was “fixed” as the constitution required……
        the money in circulation was far more, than the the actual value of the gold held in reserve to back it…….the first level of “inflation”, add the next level, the fractional reserve requirement and then the final level, of 10% margins in exchange, for
        a stock certificate whose value is determined by what people perceive……and you are looking at a lot of “wealth”…..which is essentially “imaginary”…….and all of this could work too………if not taken to the extreme…….unfortunately, history has demonstrated that both euphoria on the upside and panic on the downside can not be avoided…..

        With all the elements in play here, what you have is a very complex system, so that
        any attempt to control it would also be complex……..under these conditions, trying to find a “simple solution” or believing that a simple solution is possible……..will not actually solve the problem……….because it doesn’t really contain any understanding of what the problem actually is……..the Gold Standard is imagined to be a solution for
        part of the problem, but while it may prevent somethings, it also causes others….

        You have been posting here for a very long time…….and even in this thread it is clear
        that most people do not like complexity……nor do they even want to be told that things are complex………which is a problem in itself, because reality is extremely complex.

        In such an environment…..this would make them vulnerable to anyone who tells them what they want to hear…….

      • Mike in MI

        GALT – Please, don’t “flash” me again. My date squealing laughter said she never saw such a tiny thing before and suggested that she’s heard penile implants have helped others like you achieve desireable levels of recognition.
        Please refer to Dave H’s original comment at the beginning of this exercise in self-exposure you have been entertaining us with here. He posted, “The rest of the Progressives are just dupes being used as pawns by those Progressive leaders.” It could have ended there and saved your schools a lot of embarrassment – to say nothing of wasting Mr. Livingston’s periods and type space by improper English and punctuation usage.
        Look, it’s all well and good for name chasers like you to make passes at trying to theoretically corral what happens outside the bulwarks of academie and your ivy-covered earballs. But, People have been carrying on trade with everything from gold to sticks, stones and shells they found in the river. “I’ve got it, you want it. What’ll you give me that I can use or want?” That’s “Economic Science”. Theoretically Categorize and Codify that for your next Equestrian Flatus Examination.

      • DaveH

        I encourage the reader to read these Free Books, all by Murray Rothbard, a non-political Austrian Economist who I believe to be the greatest thinker of our time. Read this one first. It’s a relatively easy read (for Murray) and it will make it easier to understand what he’s talking about in the other books:

        Then read “A History of Money and Banking in the United States”, which describes how bankers have taken advantage of citizens since the beginnings of this country, using the Power of Government to protect them from justice.
        Then read “America’s Great Depression”.
        Both books which I linked to in earlier comments. Just do a find on “mises” to locate them.
        And again, thank you Mises Institute for making these and many other enlightening books available Free to readers.

        Folks, I don’t expect you to take my word for anything, and especially don’t take the words of lying misleading unprincipled Progressives whose main goal is to relieve you of your money so they can better feather their own nests.

      • Katrael

        DaveH I’m actually posting this to the great Galt so please forgive me.

        Galt, you are obviously an intelligent educated person. What you have posted here is coherent and fairly easy to follow. That doesn’t make your theories correct.

        Science may be may be truly “empirical” but many of your contentions can not fall into the realm of pure science. Many of the processes that are deduced by the great gods of science can not be observed nor experimented on to consider those deductions to be anything but the pronouncements of those same gods. Also please tell me whether you have any emotional attachments to your own arguments? We all have a “need” for our theories to be correct. It’s my contention that emotional attachments obviate any attempts to use “empirical science” as a final authority.

        The Universe. Please define the “universe”? Is it the matter and energy that it contains or is it more than that? Can you actually prove that the universe isn’t infinite? Perhaps you have actually been to the “ends of the universe” so that you can make this claim? Is it an emotional need of yours for the universe to be finite and this emotional need then becomes your proof?

        The law of entropy. Who says that this law necessarily applies to the universe as a whole? Could this “law” be nothing more than a pronouncement of those same science gods? I’m not saying entropy doesn’t seem to happen here on earth but our perspective is kind of limited in that we haven’t had enough time or the ability to go out into the vast universe to use the empirical method to prove whether this law holds true for the universe as a whole.

        Microwave background radiation. What does this uniform form of radiation actually prove? Could there be a different explanation for this radiation? Eric J Lerner in his book, “The Big Bang Never Happened” published by Vintage Books 1992 gives a credible explanation for this background radiation. He says that this background radiation is nothing more than the radiation from all stellar sources which is scattered in much the same way as light is in a fog. Particles in space absorb this stellar energy then these particles re- radiate this energy in all directions thus making it look “uniform”. This could be nothing more than a proof of a dusty galaxy or solar system.

        On the whole the modern monopolistic educational system seeks to promulgate it’s own religion on the masses. It does this to remove any possibility for an outside moral authority so that it can do as it pleases with the ignorant masses who can’t possibly follow anything it declares other than the most simple nonsense it feels like the masses needs to know. This religion is the same one that brought about the extinction of hundreds of millions of souls in the last century and the attempted genocide of all who opposed it’s authority.

        Your theories may be just as wrong as you claim others to be as you can not empirically prove any of these great theories beyond your own imaginations. I think I see an interesting word in the word empirical: empir(e)? Hmm, an attempt to build yet another tyrannical empire? And yes, I’m emotional about this.

    • Patriotic nut

      Map, you got it exactly right!

    • eddie47d

      Facebook is a unique concept that brings people together but is mostly paper value where the Saverins and Zuckerberg’s become billionaires from an idea without really producing anything. They didn’t even have to break a sweat to create wealth so I reckon that is what they call easy money. Since we live in a world economy people will naturally move throughout the world. If Saverin wants to move to Singapore or any other place so be it for many people from all over the world move here to conduct their lives also. Some people are driven by money and will chase that cat no matter where it is at.

      • Mike in MI

        Eddie – There you go again with your Union mentality.
        Thomas Edison, in respect to innovation (specifically the incandescent lightbulb – now Obamanized):
        “Revelation is 99% perspiration”

    • Jay

      Perhaps everyone with money leaving the country, would be the best way to get rid of the socialist/progressive/leaches in our Government. Realizing there is no one left to steal from in order to fund their welfare, and illegal immigrant nation they created, they would have no choice but to leave the country in search of greener pastures! Starve the beast, i say! Of course, i realize this would be impractical, but one can dream, can’t one?

      • eddie47d

        Stop brainwashing yourself Jay. It’s Conservative farmers,ranchers and businessmen who opened the floodgate to illegals. I know that bursts your bubble but get over it.

      • Jay

        And you know this, how?

    • Mike in MI

      Hey anybody -
      Don’t I recall that Schmuckerberg and this Flunky were teaming up with our exalted, glorious forever, most sweet-smellingly exalted Brako Bammer to give maximum exposure of our kids to Brako and his friends at NAMBLA? And of our retirees and widows to Brako’s Kenyan business partners who want to borrow everybody’s personal identification info?
      Seems I remember them being held up as first-rate lefties who made-good with help from Al Gore’s invention.
      NOW…poof…out the door with all his loot (for the land of depraved and the home of the flee) and Shumer won’t apply the existing laws that prevent such absconding. NO-o-o-o, good little leftie that he is he wants to make news-facetime and a “new, needed law to prevent such capitalist theft”. (Why dont they just declare it “Foreign Aid” and write it off? What’s a billion more or less to a Democrat anyway? pocket-with-a-hol’n’it change)
      Phooey! The Kid’s a normal blue-blooded American democrat who built a fortune and lost track of his cobbled together belief system and jumped ship. Terrible example. So, the priests at the Temple of Thieves rise up as one to get their “fair share”…just to pove that you can’t make it (or keep it) as an island unto yourself.
      I’ll bet eddiefarty70, flushy, Robert the Sith, Liesoy and any of the others would turncoat just as quick…any takers?


      I wonder how much Schmuckey Shumer has paid in capital gains tax from his “LEGAL” insider trading.

    • Nanna Gail

      Map: How true. We are just dumb citizens, some of whom have made a LOT of money, but DON’T KNOW HOW TO handle it. SOOO, THE Guvmint just HAS to take it over, ya know.

  • Michael J.

    Dear Mr. Wood,
    The short answer is no, I will not be going anywhere. To do so would be a slap in the face to my ancestors and the blood sweat and tears shed by them since they first set foot on this land in 1680. Into a land that would not become known as The United States of America for another one hundred years they came without the promise of entitlement
    incentives. These proud people set about raising family and carving a living out of a wilderness that was devoid of any infrastructure that immigrants today, legal or otherwise enjoy. The hard work of these rugged individuals is the basis for what we now know as patriotism. In the interim years between then and now they were knee deep in every local squabble, revolution, civil war, world war and fist fight that was required to make this country a place where oppressed people from around the world are willing to cross shark infested waters in shabbily constructed rafts to get to. A place where people will risk life and limb crossing barren desserts for the promise of freedom.

    So again the answer is no… As a matter of fact… HELL NO, WE WON’T GO !!!

    • Patrick H.

      I tend to agree with you, Michael. But your ancestors did arrive from somewhere. Were they unpatriotic to the country from which they expatriated? Were they slapping the faces of their ancestors? I’m not so sure that we should be disparaging the motives of modern expatriots who seek to improve their situations. I think Schumer,, are philosophically dishonest, but even if they weren’t, the U.S, federal government does not own its citizens. At least not yet. Saverin should be free to do whatever he wishes with his wealth and his citizenship, notwithstanding any parasitic claims the grubby political class may make on either.

      • Mike Austin

        Well said. Everyone came from somewhere else. If I was a billionaire, I would avoid paying as much tax as possible. I would eventually spend the money, stimulating the economy, not some politicians pet project. The less the Gov’t has to waste, the better off we are.

      • Winddrinker

        Saverin paid his dues to this country! Because he did well while he was here does not mean that he must “pay for the rest of his life!” No matter where he decides to go, he should not be questioned. This government does not own him or the money he made from his investments as an American citizen. He owes this government nothing, except what he has already paid. It should scare the pants off anyone, when politicians actually want to punish prosperous people and confiscate their money, if they decide to leave the country. Schumer is a radical. He is esposing the governments position and that is to take as much as they can from as many as they can and “keep” that money in this country.

        This regime knows that there is a growing trend where the wealthy are looking for friendlier places to live! It is hard to blame them, when they see all the corruption in government. Billions of tax dollars are being stolen or just disappear. taxes are wasted on foolishness, and taxes are even given to support our enemies in other countries! Face it, there is LITTLE TO NO GOOD that citizens receive back from paying taxes to the Feds! If the Corporation of these United States doesn’t want to lose its investors, then it needs to make some changes in the way it does business!

      • Michael J.

        Patrick H. says,

        “your ancestors did arrive from somewhere. Were they unpatriotic to the country from which they expatriated? Were they slapping the faces of their ancestors?”

        My ancestors came here as explorers. Fully aware of the hardships, they sought a fresh start in a free land for which they had much curiosity.

        “I’m not so sure that we should be disparaging the motives of modern expatriots who seek to improve their situations.”

        I did not speak any disparaging words about expatriots, only that I will not become one.

        “I think Schumer,, are philosophically dishonest, but even if they weren’t, the U.S, federal government does not own its citizens.”

        I believe Schumer seeks to punish success, which is the main reason for increasing expatriation.

      • Mike

        They certainly DID arrive from another country. They left because they were fed up with abuse, and constant wars that never permitted their lives to be settled. They were fed up with kings and queens who taxed them into poverty every time royalty decided they wanted another gold plated trinket.

        Some left because they were persecuted for not being the “same”. So they sold what they had and risked life and limb to sail to the new world. Many of them went down at sea in storms, so they really WERE risking life and limb back in the 1700′s. You could argue that they turned their backs on their ancestors. I suppose there is some validity in that statement. But they didn’t have a ballot box where they could voice their displeasure. Doing it verbally usually meant a trip to the dungeon, or the guillotine.

        America now has an elitist form of government that is beginning to mirror the mentality of the royalty our founding fathers sought to avoid. Our congresspeople seem to think they can just raise taxes to pay for their folly and the people will just have to suck it up. I tell you, it is time to throw the tea bags into the harbor. It is time to let them know we are fed up. Our first line of communication will be to elect new blood, people who have not served in congress. People who will end the senseless (and dangerous) out of control spending. If that proves to be insufficient, then it will be time to head to congress by the millions, equipped with buckets of tar and huge bags of feathers. Drag them out into the grassy area and apply a generous dose. Kick them in their self important backsides and send them away squawking like chickens so they know that we are truly angry. No, make that enraged. If that doesn’t get the point across then, unfortunately, the next step will require bloodshed.

        Thomas Jefferson warned us, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants”.

        I certainly hope it doesn’t come to that. It would be so much better if we could accomplish that at the ballot boxes.

        But mind you, there are millions of us devoted to protecting and preserving the world our ancestors fought to create. We are NOT going away. We will dig in our heels and fight the foolishness down to our last ounce of strength.

        Congress, you WILL have to deal with us.

    • randall

      that was their reality. we currently live in one of the most corrupt, most taxed, police state tax farms on the planet, with over 10,000 new laws created every year and people who want govt to give them stuff. our govt currently has bases all over the world, blowing up and killing women and children in the name of freedom and be afraid of the brown terriorsts, well the party is over, our govt has to borrow 40 cents of every dollar it spends, it currently has over 700 trillon unfunded liabilities (promises to pay ie…. SS, medicare). if i had the money, i would be getting out. it is time to become self-relient again, grow food, learn what plants grow in your area that are edible (weeds), get to know you neighbors, because if you think the govt is going to take care of you, they will hahahahahahaha

      • carl

        you are so right! Government has made me poor by illegal income and (most of all) property tax. I am an artist and a widow and by the time I am done I pay over 80% of my money to thieving taxes. I could begin to really prosper if the Constitution was followed by our criminal government. I don’t want government help I need government to be honest (dreaming and PRAYING for this) I am a hard worker and I am punished every time I make money. I am a Marine and I come from a family of many veterans so I am furious at the traitors in our government on all levels-even includes non-veteran members of my family in government.
        To survive I have learned self sufficiency- buy everything second hand-make most everything I need-trash day is a real help as the rich throw so much good things away, learned what I can eat wild to live and help others when there is no grocery store.
        We as Americans need to stand together and demand and make our government follow the Constitution and try all the traitor for treason then hang them!!!!
        GOD BLESS AMERICA and crush our enemies -both foreign AND domestic!!!!!!!!

      • alex

        why does everyone call ss and medicare govt. hand outs these are paid for by the people that receive them. the real handouts are things like welfare unemployment govt. housing and any other program that is paid for by others

    • DaveH

      In a little over 200 years, we’ve gone from a nation of rugged Pioneers, who risked their lives and fortunes to become successful, to a nation of whining wimps who demand to ride on the shoulders of others.

      • Winddrinker

        Communists bring down countries by increasing the amount of benefits to a point that it bankrupts the economy and is no longer sustainable. The food stamp program went from 26-million to 48-million receipients in the last three years under bho. Most of these new food stamp receipients are receiving more benefits than just food stamps….

        What is happening in Greece and many other countries. Their “benefit debt” is dragging them deep into bankruptcy. This country is headed in that direction, as the regime is ever increasing benefits to more and more of those that are not willing to work..

        Not only is the regime increasing benefit debt, but it now wants to bail out the Banks of Spain! Hmmmm….isn’t Spain supposed to count the votes in the 2012 election and tell us who won the election. Am I just suspicious or is there some connection to bho and his winning in 2012 and the bailing out of Spanish banks with taxpayer money…….

      • Flashy

        DaveH…. you describe the far Right/TPers/American Taliban to a “t”. For once, you got something right….

      • DaveH

        How so, Flashdunce?

      • eddie47d

        He could be talking about those Corporatist friends Dave H. The ones who really control America.

    • DownButNotOut

      One can say they love their country all they want, but it is the GOVERNMENT that has and still is ruining it via the PEOPLE voting them into office. Don’t equate Country and Government; they are two very different entities and command two very different types of loyalties. We aren’t in the the 17th century anymore…times and circumstances have changed. One can stay and play the Gov’t game and by its rules and say they are loyal to the Country…but they will continue to be screwed by the entity with the Power of Ultimate Force and nothing will get “better”. To leave is a deeper decision than just maintaining a sense of historical loyalty. I believe we will soon reach a threshold where it will be impossible to turn back both the clock and the circumstance without a level of sacrifice and risk that occurred here in the late 1700′s. If you believe we can reverse this with just voting, then you don’t realize how deep the rot has established itself. Most Americans will continue go along to get along, some will not go along and be labeled instant criminals/traitors/unpatriotic…history repeating itself. Others will just go.

      • JUKEBOX

        I wonder how many people know that California expects you to pay them tax on your retirement income that was earned while you lived in California. If you live in another state since you retired, they will send a tax agent to your house to collect their graft.

      • DaveH

        Oops, I posted my reply in the wrong place. Here it is again:
        That was outlawed by a Federal Rule many years ago, Jukebox.
        See here:

  • sean murry

    I am not going any place this is my home.

  • Karolyn

    I can’t even imagine living in any other country. I know a man that was thinking of moving to Panama or somewhere down there, but his wife won’t do it. I gather a lot of retirees are in Central America.

    • CJ

      Previously living in San Diego, CA, I was aware of a large number of Americans, many who were active duty military, who owned property and lived in Mexico while commuting to work daily across the border. Cost of living for them was a fraction of what my expenses were, all the while they were enjoying a pay basis as if they lived, and spent, in San Diego.

  • Will Smith

    No ones seems to have picked up on the fact that the United States (nor any other country) should not become in effect a prison. Extortionate “exit fees” were a standard practice for both the Nazis and the Soviets. Do we really want to follow the lead of Hitler and Stalin.

    An accident of birth should not doom one to a lifetime of servitude. I thought that had been settled by the events of April, 1865 and the 13th amendment to the Constitution.

    • James

      Chuck and the so called Democrates ( actually COMMUNIST USA) would do that and I mite leave as I am often asheamsd to be an AMERican.

    • Winddrinker

      Will, that is exactly what “Chuckie” wants to do!

      If we want to know where this “government” is going, just read what the Nazi’s did…

    • alex

      the sob in the whitehouse does

    • Flashy

      yet Will…are you not one who calls for fencing our borders to ‘keep ‘em out”? Realizing of course, the fence would work both ways…

      • Nanna Gail

        Flashy: Yes, it works both ways. BUT, they do have a LEGAL option to gain entry to the USA. So, the “fence” is to TRY to stop them from coming here ILLEGALLY and BLEEDING dry, “We the People”, who pay ALL the taxes, AND stealing OUR jobs. I would like to see anyone cross the border to MEXICO, (Like who would want to), ILLEGALLY and get all these handouts. Hell NO, you wouldn’t. More likely you would be jailed for life, OR SHOT.


      Obama’s agenda is similar to that in Germany in the thirties.

  • tg sherman

    I was thinking of moving to a foreign land so I picked Milwaukee & 2nd choice Chicago!! I decieded to stay where I am!

  • Gary L

    I am sure Washington D.C. is chock full of politicians that feel that they are entitled to as much of our money as they want. How dare anyone try to keep what is thiers. I am sure that the “government” really doesn’t understand why this is happening.

  • Dr David Hancock

    In the past few years I have several times considered plans to leave the US and my citizenship behind sometime in the next 1-2 decades. I don’t view this as much as leaving the US as the US has left me, at least the US as designed by our founding fathers. They would be mortified by the state we are now in with a massive deficit caused by wild, careless public spending. I think it was Jefferson that warned us that a government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. What concerns me is all my friends and family that I would be leaving behind, but perhaps everyone will be on some kind of entitlement program by then and beholden to the govt. I embrace the ideals of the United States of America but not the application, and I include both Democrat and Republican. Who was it that said “I love my country but fear my government”? It’s definitely a sad state of affairs…

    • Joe Brooks

      Dr David, you are correct, I know many folks who are planning to leave, before this becomes completed. We are becoming more a Communist China colony daily,

      • DaveH

        It likely wouldn’t have become “Communist” China, had it not been for the efforts of Progressives in the FDR administration:

      • Joe Brooks

        Dave H, I lost this, somehow. You are correct, the Commies in FDR’s and Truman’s admins lost all of the USSR satellite states and handed the Chinese people over to the Commies, intentionally. Look up John Service, better yet look up the free trading Marxist USSR spy Nathan Gregory Silvermaster, to gain an understanding of the roots of unilateral US “free trade”. Of course “free trade” is leading to the Communist Chinese takeover of the US, the Communists have been working at it for 160 years.

    • Joe Brooks

      Dave H, as we have discussed many times before, free trade has done the vast majority of the damage to the USA, just as Marx predicted.

      Dr David is correct, maybe not in the way he thinks, but we are not competing in the real world of International trade, the world of border duties, value added taxes, currency manipulation, import tariffs and criminal dumping of product.

      Did you actually read the 45 signs? No other country in the world, with the possible exception of Australia, is as stupid as we are, regarding International “free markets” and “free enterprise”. There is no such thing, only a blind man or agent of foreign interests cannot see this.

      • DaveH

        Please don’t succumb to the Propaganda, Joe, and call it Free Trade because it isn’t. Real Free Trade isn’t administered by Government Panels. Please read this if you don’t understand what I’m saying:

      • DaveH

        You should read this also, Joe:

      • DaveH

        When Countries’ Leaders institute Protectionism, they are harming their own citizens more than any other country’s citizens. Real Free Trade (no Government involvement) on an International level is no different from Free Trade on a local level. By restricting trade in any way we restrict productivity, the driving force of good economies. That hurts most people by reducing the availability of goods and services, thus increasing their costs. Even the people who seemingly benefit are hurt in the long run, like welfare recipients are hurt in the long run by being on the dole.
        To use an extreme example, imagine if you only allowed your family to buy goods produced by family members. Obviously, you would soon be asset poor. Even extending the range to a city is obviously going to result in poorer people in that city. It is no different if you expand that protectionism to each state or internationally. The citizens lose.
        The first weapon of choice against foreign countries is an embargo. Now why would that be effective? It is effective because countries suffer when their international trade is restricted.

      • Joe Brooks

        Dave H, in the real world, not academic or utopian think tanks or wishing upon a star, free trade does not exist. The CATO and other psycho-babble institutes free trade agenda is simply wrong, in the real world. 150 other nations practice protectionism, US unilateral free trade is NOT competing with others, it is suicide and is promoted extensively by our foreign competitors, while they protect their economies by every means available.

        Hence, we are being colonized and not just by Red China. Look up the causes of the Revolutionary war. The Boston Tea Party. Here you go, free trade for the US and import tariffs for the British:

      • DaveH

        Goodness doesn’t exist much anymore either, Joe. Do you think we should abandon it?
        And as the article pointed out, and I pointed out, Protectionism as practiced by other countries hurts their own citizens more than anybody. Whether they practice Protectionism or not has no bearing on whether or not we should. Two wrongs don’t make a right. And besides, nothing at all is keeping you from avoiding their products if you are so inclined, but don’t use Government to force your ways on me and my kind.
        Read this book, Joe, and wake up:

        • Joe Brooks

          Dave H, I have studied von Hayek, von Mises and G B Shaw exhaustively. I strongly suggest you do the same. They all were involved in the London School of Economics.

          The “free trading” LSE was created by COMMUNISTS.

          George Bernard Shaw (26 July 1856 – 2 November 1950) was an Irish playwright and a co-founder of the London School of Economics [Fabian Communist Free Traders]. Although his first profitable writing was music and literary criticism, in which capacity he wrote many highly articulate pieces of journalism, his main talent was for drama, and he wrote more than 60 plays. Nearly all his writings deal sternly with prevailing social problems, but have a vein of comedy to make their stark themes more palatable. Shaw examined education, marriage, religion, government, health care, and class privilege.
          After visiting the USSR in the 1930s where he met Stalin, Shaw became a supporter of the Stalinist USSR. On 11 October 1931 he broadcast a lecture on American national radio telling his audience that any ‘skilled workman…of suitable age and good character’ would be welcomed and given work in the Soviet Union.[63] [Most of them ended up in the Gulags, never to be seen again].
          A recent documentary, The Soviet Story, includes an extensive clip of film in which George Bernard Shaw, facing the camera, is apparently speaking in favor of discarding those members of society ‘who are no use in this world’:
          “You must all know half a dozen people at least who are no use in this world, who are more trouble than they are worth. Just put them there and say Sir, or Madam, now will you be kind enough to justify your existence? If you can’t justify your existence, if you’re not pulling your weight in the social boat, if you’re not producing as much as you consume or perhaps a little more, then, clearly, we cannot use the organizations of our society for the purpose of keeping you alive, because your life does not benefit us and it can’t be of very much use to yourself”.[65]

        • Joe Brooks

          Friedrich August Hayek CH (German pronunciation: [ˈfʁiːdʁɪç ˈaʊ̯gʊst ˈhaɪ̯ɛk]) (8 May 1899 – 23 March 1992), born in Austria-Hungary as Friedrich August von Hayek, was an economist and philosopher best known for his defense of classical liberalism and free-market capitalism against socialist and collectivist thought. He is considered to be one of the most important economists and political philosophers of the twentieth century, winning the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences in 1974. Along with his mentor Ludwig von Mises, he was an important contributor to the Austrian school of political economy.[1] Hayek’s account of how changing prices communicate information which enable individuals to coordinate their plans is widely regarded as an important achievement in economics.[2] Hayek also produced significant work in the fields of systems thinking, jurisprudence, neuroscience and the history of ideas.
          Hayek lived in Austria, Great Britain, the United States and Germany, and became a British subject in 1938.

          He spent most of his academic life at the London School of Economics (LSE)

          [They were Fabian free trading Communists, Recall George Bernard Shaw], the University of Chicago [Chicago School of Economics, Psycho-Babble Economics], and the University of Freiburg.

      • DaveH

        That’s quite a stretch, Joe, equating Free Marketers with Communists.
        It makes a lot of sense that somebody would tout voluntary trade among individuals with property rights, etc., because they advocate Communism which requires a tyrannical Government and NO property rights. I assume from that that I would be wasting my time trying to have a rational discussion with you.
        Apparently your study of Hayek, and Mises didn’t sink in very well.

  • Steve E

    Perhaps Saverin just did not want to support the socialism that is overcoming this country. Anything done to deify socialism is a good thing.

    • richardgibbard

      To “deify” socialism is to regard it as a god. PLEASE tell us you meant “defy.”

      • Steve E

        Defy means not to support something, enable something, and do what you can to destroy it.

      • Joe Brooks

        Deify: 1.make divine: to make somebody into a god

      • Steve E

        Sorry, typo, meant Defy.

      • Joe Brooks


  • gfsomsel

    Chucky-Schmucky Shumer is attempting to erect a financial Berlin Wall to keep those with wealth from leaving the country to avoid being bled dry by the Federal leeches. While I might question certain circumstances in which someone would renounce his citizenship, I think the individual should be free to do so and not kept imprisoned in an acquisitive society whose object is to financially oppress those who are successful (that doesn’t include me).

  • Brian

    Staying put. I would rather fight to reverse America’s slide into complete Socialism than watch from some distant shore… where is the fun in that?

    Seriously…we were put on this planet not to run from problems, but, with the grace of God and his providence, to rise above and overcome. And if we fail, we shall do so daring greatly, not cowering in the distance.

    • Brad

      pretty hard to survive swimming with hungry Paranah.

      • Mike in MI

        Gee, Brad -
        You barely glanced at his very accurate comment, especially “…God and His providence”.
        Now, you may think that the Biblical accounts of God’s working on of His people (those who believe in Him, trust in Him and expect to see His inimmitable ability at work to protect, provide, guard and heal on the basis of the clear clauses in His covenant with them) are silly dreamers. Your privilege.
        I can’t personally attest to the account of Daniel’s experience with the lions or Daniel and his two friends descent into and recovery from the kings fiery smelting furnace or myriad other “fantastical” accounts. But I can attest to my own experiences wherein my life has been spared and preserved (4 times) to this day because something much bigger than my own native abilities was brought to bear on deadly conditions when I used the name of Jesus Christ. It is not, has never been, an empty thing to rely on the promise, “He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” (John 14:12) Most people in this culture have lived in a cocoon of safety and protection because our forebears struggled to provide us with things they didn’t have but hoped we might. Stalin’s pogroms and gulags were somebody elses’ difficulty.
        Well, lawless, reckless and horrible people are breaking down that cocoon of laws, culture and protection. Evidence leads me to believe that soon anyone who is ignorant of that name and how to utilize the power it represents is going to be in mortal danger…or will surrender and live as a slave to those whose potential for hatred and wickedness is immeasurable.

  • Ody

    Why does the government have to get into EVERY ASPECT of our lives????? LEAVE US ALONE….WILL YA????? If he wants to leave….what the h***? Let he leave!!

    • Robert Smith

      From Ody: “Why does the government have to get into EVERY ASPECT of our lives?????”

      It isn’t just money.

      They don’t want us to have any recreational drugs except the blood of their savior, wine (alcohol).

      They don’t want women to have a say in how their bodies are used sexually.

      They don’t want us to ask for help dying if we are to incapacitated to define our own final exit.

      Yup, please get the government the h3ll out of our personla lives.


      • DaveH

        There is nothing more personal than stealing the fruits of one’s labor, Robert.

      • DaveH

        Oops, I should qualify that — except forcing people to risk their lives for our “Freedom” and/or killing other people who have attacked us in no way in the name of “Freedom”.

      • Michael J.

        Robert Smith,
        Chances are you will never be happy here because most people frown upon the worship of Pagean Idolotry as a cover for gender indescriminate sex and illegal drugs induldged in the midst of Satanic Ritual.

  • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

    What a hypocritical blowhard Schumer is….what about when he & the other members of that criminal cabal known as Congress confirmed Sibelius & Geithner, 2 federal tax cheats to the cabinet? Those 2 never would have paid those taxes if they were not nominated…how does a president even chose such lowlifes for office? Integrity & honor mean nothing anymore!!!

    • ….

      You actually know nothing about Ms. Sebilius and should keep quiet until you do.

  • ArkansasRebel

    I am not certain that I have the facts right but if memory serves me correctly the tax advantages of off-shore accounts were established by Congress to benefit one person: Jackie O’nasis. Other congressmen were able to also take advantage of the benefits & then, since the law left it open, others who had much to lose in taxes, took advantage of it.
    So, how is the leaving of Saverin any different? Once a citizen are we now to be forbidden by law from changing our status? Sounds like sour grapes to me & simply more tax gouging.

  • Proud Warrior

    It seems to me our government has become so greedy, not just for monetary things but power, people see leaving as their only chance to be truly free. This nation was created as a Republic not a democracy as those in power want you to believe. My ancestors have fought for and continue to fight to maintain their sovereignty from those who would destroy it. I am prepared to take my family to a safer location, if need be, but I will return to fight for what is just. This land is the home of my ancestors and MY home which I WILL defend from the tyranny which is besieging it.

    • Steve E

      Many people are fooled into believing that we are a democracy and have no concept of what a republic is. They also are not educated enough to know that throughout history, democracies always fail.

      • DaveH

        The Leaders know that the further they move Government from the people they supposedly represent, the less accountability they will have for their Abuses of Power. That’s why the ultimate dream of those would-be suppressors is a One World Government.

      • Steve E

        True. If aliens came from outer space and said “Take us to your leader”, we can only answer them back by saying “Which one?”.

      • Michael J.

        Steve E.
        No, hail them a cab and send them on their way to Chantilly, Virginia.

  • Ray Kennedy

    I am living in Panama – the reason?

    Little Boxes

    by Malvina Reynolds (1900-1978)

    Little boxes on the hill side, little boxes made of ticky-tacky.
    Little boxes, little boxes, little boxes all the same.
    There’s a green one and a pink one and a blue one and a yellow one,
    And they’re all made out of ticky-tacky, and they all look just the same.

    And the people in the houses all go to the university
    Where they all get put in boxes, little boxes, all the same.
    And there’s doctors and there’s lawyers, and there’s business executives
    And they’re all made out of ticky-tacky and they all look just the same.

    And they all play on the golf course and drink their martini dry
    And they all have pretty children and the children go to school
    And the children go to summer camp and then to the university
    Where they all get put in boxes and they all come out the same.

    And the boys go into business and marry and raise a family
    And they all get put in boxes, little boxes all the same.
    There’s a green one and a pink one and a blue one and a yellow one
    And they’re all made out of ticky-tacky and they all look just the same.

    • Vigilant

      Typical hate-the-rich, anti-Capitalism screed. Reynolds was a Socialist:

      “Socialism is the only way to go.
      Socialism is the only way to go.
      Millions are poor and in despair
      While the capitalist few sit fat up there,
      And Socialism is the only way to go. “

  • Ben Gardner

    My cousin moved to Australia thirty years ago and never came back. He hasn’t regretted a minute of it.

    I moved permanently to Canada five years ago and can’t understand why I didn’t stay when I worked here in the ’80s. I got fed up with the bad behaviour of the American government around the globe, beginning with what I was forced to do in Viet Nam.

    The next time you’re tempted to call it the “land of the free”, try buying a 42 ounce soft drink in New York City, or carry a placard in Oakland. When the “occupy” movement hit us this past winter, our local police service not only marched with us carrying signs, many helped set up tents and cook at night. Try doing that in the U.S. any more.

    • Dr David Hancock

      Hi Ben,

      Well, you had me until you mentioned the occupy movement… despite all it’s faults, the free enterprize and free market system is still the best way to go and the occupy movement simply feels shut out and ignored… you don’t knock a good thing just because you can’t compete.

      But this is the wrong topic, congrats on your move to Canada… I’ve considered it myself. Right now I’m leaning toward Switzerland…

      • DaveH

        I’m enthralled with Chile, which is moving in the opposite direction than the US:

      • Joe Brooks

        Heritage has been discredited for years:

        Ever wonder why McConnell seems to be completely ignorant of any realities? No better than BO.

        “A Heritage Foundation military analyst who sounded warnings about Chinese threats to U.S. security was shown the door after Elaine L. Chao, the conservative think tank’s top Asian studies adviser, complained about his policy writings, WorldNetDaily has learned.

        Chao’s views on China have come under closer scrutiny after President-elect Bush picked her to head the Labor Department. As a Cabinet member, she would have top-secret clearance and be in regular contact with national security officials.

        As WorldNetDaily earlier reported, her China-born father is on a first-name basis with Chinese President Jiang Zemin, who also heads the state Communist Party and Central Military Commission. Her father also owns a shipping company that does business with China.

        Greenberg and AIG, through its employee PAC, also have donated thousands of dollars to Chao’s husband, Sen. Mitch McConnell, federal records show.”

      • jeep

        I don’t think Chile is for you, DaveH…they have mandatory military service.

      • Vigilant

        I think he’s probably out of the “draftable” age range.

      • DaveH

        Can you dispute their facts, Joe, or are ad hominem attacks all you have to offer?
        Here is another organization for those, like Joe, who refuse to drink the water:

      • Joe Brooks

        The rankings (and scores) of other large economies are Germany, 21 (7.45); Japan, 22 (7.44); France, 42 (7.16);Italy, 70 (6.81); Mexico, 75 (6.74); Russia, 81 (6.55); China, 92 (6.43); India, 94 (6.40); and Brazil, 102 (6.19).

        Good Heavens Dave H, another incredible gaffe. These are some of the most protectionist nations on earth, so of course they are doing well. Germany, Japan, Red China, India, Russia, etc. have the most protected economies on the planet.

        “The world’s largest economy, the United States, has suffered one of the largest declines in economic freedom over thelast 10 years, pushing it into tenth place. Much of this decline is a result of higher government spending and borrowingand lower scores for the legal structure and property rights components. Over the longer term, the summary chainlinked ratings of Venezuela, Zimbabwe, United States, and Malaysia fell by eight-tenths of a point or more between1990 and 2009, causing their rankings to slip”.

        Complete hogwash. Nearly all of problems can be traced to “free trade”. Easily seen as the budget deficit closely follows the trade deficit.

        I have shown you all of this before, the site will not allow more than one link at a time. This one sums up most of our problems nicely:

        Pat Choate explains the disruption brought forth by free trade as corporations search for short term profits. American products strengthen the American economy, buying from home benefits the country.

      • Joe Brooks

        Herbert Philbrick, an FBI agent who infiltrated the Communists’ organizations in the US, explains their methods.

        Part 1

      • Joe Brooks
      • Joe Brooks

        ‘Free Trade’ has increasingly come under attack as America’s economy dawdles. ‘The Conservative Case Against Free Trade’ provides readers with a history of America’s relationship with Free Trade and its mirror-image, protectionism. Alexander Hamilton was protectionism’s first major advocate. George Washington, in his first Address to Congress, said ‘A free people . . should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military supplies.’ Thomas Jefferson made a similar statement in 1816, as did also James Madison in 1815, and James Monroe in 1822. Southern states objected after the 1820s, seeing its slave-labor workforce unsuitable for industrial work. Perhaps surprisingly, Karl Marx came out in 1848 in support of free trade because he viewed a high-wage economy via protectionism as a mortal threat to communism. Back to the U.S., we read that Calvin Coolidge supported protectionism to maintain American standards of living. Democrat Woodrow Wilson was the first modern president to support outright free trade. The last serious protective tariff was the 1930 Smoot-Hawley Act. It has since unjustly been blamed for the Great Depression – reality, two-thirds of the drop in trade during the Depression occurred before Smoot-Hawley even came into effect. (Another point – trade represented less than .5% of GDP at that time.) Republicans in 1947 became under greater influence from Wall Street, and declined to return to protectionism, and part of our Cold War strategy was aimed at strengthening all economies of the non-communist world and binding them to the U.S. Supposedly our superior productivity brought enough breathing room to allow such, without harming our own economy. Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy opened markets further. The first serious trade-related cracks appeared in the late 1960s when B&W TV production moved to Japan, along with cameras, transistor radios, and toys. Trade went into deficit, and we have not run a surplus since 1975. Carter, Regan, and Bush I then blocked protectionist bills. Prior to NAFTA’s 1992 approval, Secretary of Labor Lynn Martin predicted it would cost 150,000 jobs. If only. NAFTA was somehow sold as something that would reduce our trade deficit. Our trade with Mexico was a $1.6 billion surplus in 1993, and a $61.6 billion deficit by 2010. America’s trade deficit is now close to $50 billion/month. It’s no wonder that stimulus programs haven’t been able to revive such a leaky economy. Multinational companies, of course, don’t care; many have become in important ways extensions of the Chinese government. A new myth contends that America is simply shifting from low-tech to high-tech employment. Reality is we’re losing jobs in both areas (eg. 270,000 engineer and architect jobs between 2000 and 2010), shifting instead to non-tradable services – mostly low-aid and too often filled by illegals from Mexico. Poverty is on the march in America. Military capability is declining. The future – even worse; Alan Blinder, former Vice-Chairman of the Federal Reserve has estimated that off-shoring will affect up to 40 million American jobs. What do we need? We need to become truly independent again and replace free trade with thoughtful protectionism ASAP. An NBC-WSJ 2010 poll found 53% of American believing free trade agreements hurt the U.S.

      • Joe Brooks

        Libertarians and free trade economists don’t realize it, but they are pulling Marx out of his grave.

      • DaveH

        The Crony Capitalists and the Power-seeking Politicians love you Joe.

      • DaveH

        Joe says — “Good Heavens Dave H, another incredible gaffe. These are some of the most protectionist nations on earth, so of course they are doing well”.
        They may or may not be. But I doubt it. At any rate, the list is intended to show the consequences of Government intrusion into the economy. If all on the list were Protectionist, that is another issue. But the fact is that it takes Big Government to intervene in Free Trade. And the list does demonstrate that the bigger Government is, the weaker the economy is.
        So you would have us suspend all logic and experience, Joe, to grow Government ever larger thinking that somehow that would be the correct pathway to preventing the totalitarian environment of Communism?
        You may have studied exhaustively, Joe. So have I. But the question is — Did you learn anything?
        So you think that a Free People, trading freely, without the fetters of Government meddling to pick winners and losers in the marketplace, would somehow open the doors to those same people to accept Communism? From that, I can only conclude that the answer to my previous question is a resounding NO.

        • Joe Brooks

          Dave H, I have shown you the trade sites before, you know as well as I do that these countries practice protectionism. The last time I showed you this site you thought it was US tariffs being explained-buzzz-it is everyone else’s, which I explained to you in great detail. The US basically has had no tariffs or duties since Bill “Commissar” Clinton passed NAFTA.

        • Joe Brooks

          Dave H, no one who has actually studied the issue of “free trade” could be unaware of this. So, anyone claiming to be ignorant of this speech of Marx’ is possibly a foreign lobbyist, or worse.

          Free Trade -> Misery -> Social Revolution.
          (1) Karl Marx on Free Trade (2) Frederick Engels on Free Trade (3) Trotskyists for Free Trade
          (1) Karl Marx on Free Trade
          Karl Marx’s major statement about Free Trade was an address delivered to the Democratic association of Brussels, Belgium, on January 9, 1848, around the same time as he wrote the Communist Manifesto.

          “Moreover, the Protective system is nothing but a means of establishing manufacture upon a large scale in any given country, that is to say, of making it dependent upon the market of the world: and from the moment that dependence upon the market of the world is established, there is more or less dependence upon Free Trade too. Besides this, the Protective system helps to develop free competition within a nation. Hence we see that in countries where the bourgeoisie is beginning to make itself felt as a class, in Germany for example, it makes great efforts to obtain Protective duties. They serve the bourgeoisie as weapons against feudalism and absolute monarchy, as a means for the concentration of its own powers for the realization of Free Trade within the country
          But, generally speaking, the Protective system in these days is CONSERVATIVE, while the Free Trade system works destructively. It breaks up old nationalities and carries antagonism of proletariat and bourgeoisie to the uttermost point. In a word, the Free Trade system hastens the Social Revolution. In this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, I am in favor of Free Trade.”

          “Hence we see that in countries where the bourgeoisie is beginning to make itself felt as a class, in Germany for example, it makes great efforts to obtain Protective duties. They serve the bourgeoisie as weapons against feudalism and absolute monarchy, as a means for the concentration of its own powers for the realization of Free Trade within the country.”

          Here he describes the American School of Economics, that promoted middle class [bourgeoisie] success. Free trade is a backdoor way to Communism. This is obvious when you look at our trade deficits with Communist China, Caste System India, Mexico and the pending agreement with Communist Brazil.

          Of course once a non Communist country has been looted by “free trade” and the population dependent on the government as there are no jobs or future, a Communist government is installed [this should start sounding very familiar], the Communists then eventually put many economic protections in place to maintain their profits and power.

          On “free trade” there is no difference between BO and Romney.

          It is 20 years past time to hammer the Communist front organizations that promote “free trade” back to the foreign nations and multi national corporations that finance the “free trade” political propaganda payoff machine. They can take the illegal immigrants with them.

      • DaveH

        You’re equivocating. If you read the Lew Rockwell article that I linked to, you’d know that the phrase Free Trade has been bastardized by the Progressives like many other words and phrases — Liberal, for instance, which used to describe those who fought for and promoted Freedom. Now Liberals are synonymous with Progressives in many peoples’ minds. I believe that is purposeful by those who would like to steer us away from concepts of Freedom and towards Serfdom. Are you one of them, Joe?
        So you would have the readers believe that a Communist, one who believes in Government Ownership of all property, would advocate Real Free Trade?
        And if Free Trade is bad, explain to us how it is bad? Why aren’t the States allowed to protect their individual industries if Free Trade is a bad thing? Why do warring countries embargo their enemies’ goods? If Free Trade was bad, they’d be playing right into their enemies’ hands, now wouldn’t they?
        The facts are that Free Trade (NOT administered by Government, which makes it UnFree Trade) allows people around the world to do what they do best, thus becoming the most productive we can become. The more productivity we have, the cheaper our goods are, and the more prosperous we become. Sure there will be people who just don’t want to work, but there will always be those kinds of people in any system.
        Protectionism, like welfare, only destroys the incentive of the recipients to be productive.
        When Protectionism is applied, the protected benefit at the expense of the rest of the people who must then pay higher prices (due to scarcity) for their goods and services, or do without.
        More on Protectionist concepts by Murray Rothbard:

        • Joe Brooks

          Sorry Dave H, you are simply a tool of propaganda, whether you know it or not. I spent 3 years researching the roots of Communist free trade, before writing a slide show I have made free for the last 2 years.

          Murray Newton Rothbard (March 2, 1926 – January 7, 1995) was an American individualist anarchist,[1] author, and economist of the Austrian School who helped define modern libertarianism and popularized a form of free-market anarchism he termed “anarcho-capitalism”.[2][3] Rothbard wrote over twenty books and is considered a centrally important figure in the American libertarian movement.[4] Rothbard was born to David and Rae Rothbard, who raised their Jewish family in the Bronx. His father worked as a chemist and migrated to the US from Poland, while his mother came from Russia

          “I grew up in a Communist culture,” he recalled.[22] He attended Columbia University, where he was awarded a Bachelor of Arts degree in mathematics and economics in 1945 and a Master of Arts degree in 1946. He earned a Doctor of Philosophy degree in economics in 1956 at Columbia under Joseph Dorfman.[23][24]

          During the early 1950s, he studied under the Austrian economist Ludwig von Mises at his seminars at New York University and was greatly influenced by Mises’ book Human Action.

          From 1978 to 1983, he was associated with the Libertarian Party Radical Caucus, allying himself with Justin Raimondo, Eric Garris and Williamson Evers. He opposed the “low tax liberalism” espoused by 1980 Libertarian Party presidential candidate Ed Clark and Cato Institute president Edward H Crane III. According to Charles Burris, “Rothbard and Crane became bitter rivals after disputes emerging from the 1980 LP presidential campaign of Ed Clark carried over to strategic direction and management of Cato.”[71] Rothbard split with the Radical Caucus at the 1983 national convention over cultural issues, and aligned himself with what he called the “rightwing populist” wing of the party, notably Lew Rockwell and Ron Paul, who ran for President on the Libertarian Party ticket in 1988 and in the 2008 Republican Party Primaries. “Rothbard worked closely with Lew Rockwell (joined later by his long time friend Burt Blumert) in nurturing the Ludwig von Mises Institute, and the publication, The Rothbard-Rockwell Report (which after Rothbard’s 1995 death evolved into the popular website,”[71] [Lew’s site is a little truth mixed in with a Communist rewrite of history. Ed.]

          The usual Communist slavery and breakup of the family: In the Ethics of Liberty Rothbard explores in terms of self-ownership and contract several contentious issues regarding children’s rights. These include women’s right to abortion, proscriptions on parents aggressing against children once they are born, and the issue of the state forcing parents to care for children, including those with severe health problems. He also holds children have the right to “run away” from parents and seek new guardians as soon as they are able to choose to do so. He suggested parents have the right to put a child out for adoption or even sell the rights to the child in a voluntary contract, which he feels is more humane than artificial governmental restriction of the number of children available to willing and often superior parents.

          His economic thoughts on “free trade” are very similar to the Silvermaster group of economist spies from the USSR.

          CATO= Amerasia

        • Joe Brooks

          “The April 17 edition of the Dayton Daily News devoted many columns to the issue of jobs. The issue of jobs or the lack thereof was only partially explained. The root cause of our jobs catastrophe is the trade deficit. We have exported millions of jobs through the deficit. Our current trade policies are built on “free trade,” a theory originally formulated by Adam Smith. Now, many years later, various versions of it are still being peddled without evidence that it works. Now we have evidence. The evidence indicates that the theory doesn’t work. When the data contradicts the theory, we throw out the theory, not the data.
          Instead of greater wealth for all nations, the United States has enormous and growing trade deficits now, averaging $788 billion per year.”
          And what has been the result of the “free trade” that was supposed to reduce the size of the Federal government by removing the “protectionist” trade regulations of 1789 to 1975?
          A massive transfer of prosperity from middle class Americans to the “Ruling Classes” of the world and their US counterparts, not world employees.
          1 in 7 Americans living in poverty. They have no choice but to accept Federal and state government assistance to survive. Dependent on their government for food, housing, clothing, education, healthcare and the essentials of living. Not because they are unwilling to work, but because “free trade” has decimated the traditional middle class work places through outsourcing, insourcing, “productivity” [having 1 person do the work of 2 for low pay and no benefits], and illegal immigrant employment competition. Lost revenues resulting in Federal and state budget deficits. The Feds have been pushing “Soviet style healthcare” through against the will of the people. Millions of Americans have lost their homes. It is becoming increasingly difficult for the vast majority of young Americans to own anything of value.
          To administer the distribution of the communal funds, mostly taken from what is left of the middle class as taxes, the Federal government has been steadily increasing in size since the 1990’s [millions more Federal employees with the associated control of citizens’ lives]. Of course, taxes upon the wealthy and corporations have steadily declined through loopholes over the last 30 years, leaving a fantastically wealthy Oligarchy of State Capitalists, who built their financial empires through “free trade” agreements, running the United States.
          Roughly 84% of the national manufacturing trade deficit and 16% of the US national debt belongs to Red China, we are being colonized. Countries we have large trade deficits with are colonizing America [Mexico]. Colonial peoples are prevented from manufacturing, because that leads to independence and self reliance. Colonies ship food and raw materials to their masters.

      • DaveH

        Bad is good, down is up, black is white, Free Trade is Government Controlled Trade, War is Peace. What other group has done more damage to our language than the Progressives have in their quest to confuse the citizens and take total control over our lives?
        People like Joe do their best to steer the rest of us away from the concepts of Freedom.
        All I can suggest for those of you who are still learning is to look at the countries who have actually implemented such controls and see where it has gotten them:
        For instance the Trade Freedom for Hong Kong is 90 (out of 100).
        The Trade Freedom for the US is 86.4 (not great but not bad).
        Then look at Cuba whose Trade Freedom is 62.7. By the way, that’s a Communist Country, Joe.
        Or North Korea whose Trade Freedom is 0. That’s Zero, Joe, and they’re a Communist Country.
        Or China (another Communist Country) whose Trade Freedom is 71.6. Not as bad as Cuba or North Korea, but still much worse than the US currently.
        Let’s face it, Joe, if your eyes are blue it’s because you’re a quart low.

        • Joe Brooks

          Dave H, I sure am glad you brought this issue up. Let’s take a look at a country that practiced protectionism with a national plan to promote science, industry, citizen development, infrastructure, common sense and patriotism.

          This country brought forth more civil,scientific and human rights advancement in 200 years than the rest of the world in the previous 5000.

          America was built on Constitutional Free Enterprise between the states, not International Free Trade or Free Markets

          Since the “free traders” and and “libertarians” claim to be Constitutionalists, it is valid to point out that Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress the specific right to “regulate commerce with foreign nations”. America’s leaders did just that, until the 1970’s.

          Article I, Section 10 of our Federal Constitution prohibits the state governments, without the consent of the Federal Congress, from collecting Tariffs on goods imported into the states. Likewise, Article I, Section 9 prohibited the Federal Congress from assessing tariffs or taxes on goods exported from any state. This is why you pay no tax/tariff when purchasing from another state, the Founders made Regionalism illegal.

          The American School, also known as “National System”, represents three different yet related constructs in politics, policy and philosophy. It was the American policy for many decades, waxing and waning in actual degrees and details of implementation. Historian Michael Lind describes it as a coherent applied economic philosophy with logical and conceptual relationships with other economic ideas.[1]
          It is the macroeconomic philosophy that dominated United States national policies from 1789 until the mid-twentieth century[2][3][4][5][6][7] (after mercantilism and prior to Keynesian economics, it can be seen as a modified type of classical economics). It consisted of these three core policies:
          protecting industry through selective high tariffs (especially 1861–1932) and some include through subsidies (especially 1932–70) and the advocacy of protectionism and opposition to free trade.
          government investments in infrastructure creating targeted internal improvements (especially in transportation)
          a national bank with policies that promote the growth of productive enterprises.[8][9][10][11] [with good reason, congress was concerned about a national bank, after the publication of "The Communist Manifesto" in 1848.]

          It is a capitalist economic school based on the Hamiltonian economic program.[12] The American School of capitalism was intended to allow the United States to become economically independent and nationally self-sufficient.

          The American School’s key elements were promoted by John Q. Adams and his National Republican Party, Henry Clay and the Whig Party, and Abraham Lincoln through the early Republican Party which embraced, implemented, and maintained this economic system.[13]

          During its American System period the United States grew into the largest economy in the world with the highest standard of living, surpassing the British Empire by the 1880s.[14]

          Henry C. Carey, a leading American economist and adviser to Abraham Lincoln, in his book Harmony of Interests, displays two additional points of this American School economic philosophy that distinguishes it from the systems of Adam Smith or Karl Marx:
          Government support for the development of science and public education through a public ‘common’ school system and investments in creative research through grants and subsidies.
          Rejection of class struggle, in favor of the “Harmony of Interests” between: owners and workers, farmer and manufacturers, the wealthy class and the working class.[17]
          In a passage from his book, The Harmony of Interests, Carey wrote concerning the difference between the American System and British System of economics:
          Two systems are before the world;… One looks to increasing the necessity of commerce; the other to increasing the power to maintain it. One looks to underworking the Hindoo, and sinking the rest of the world to his level; the other to raising the standard of man throughout the world to our level. One looks to pauperism, ignorance, depopulation, and barbarism; the other to increasing wealth, comfort, intelligence, combination of action, and civilization. One looks towards universal war; the other towards universal peace. One is the English system; the other we may be proud to call the American system, for it is the only one ever devised the tendency of which was that of elevating while equalizing the condition of man throughout the world.[17]

          This is one of the main reasons the Communists hate America, we were the largest obstacle in their path. They have worked hard to erase this benevolent system from Americans’ memories. /wiki/American_School_(economics)

        • Joe Brooks

          Dave H, I always have a good time debating you, as your arguments are so easily disproven. I have other things I must do, be well, I will be back as time allows.

      • DaveH

        The problem is that you’re too ignorant to know you’ve been beaten. I am content to let the readers decide who makes sense and who doesn’t.

      • DaveH

        Joe says — “I always have a good time debating you, as your arguments are so easily disproven”.
        The fact, Joe, that you would declare yourself the winner of the debate is just further proof of your ignorance. Any ignorant person can declare themselves to be the winner.

      • DaveH

        For those who would like to read about real-life results from Protectionism like Joe wants, go here:
        Then read the section — “The Economy Under Hoover” (page 253).

        • Joe Brooks

          Dave H repeats the old lie that Hoover created the Great Depression. It is well known that Wilson caused it, by repealing Lincoln’s 50 year old tariffs, subjecting the USA to the first permanent income tax and creating the Federal Reserve.

          Even Dave’s heroes admit to the Federal Reserves guilt regarding the Great Depression. Notice the nearly exact time frame as Clinton destroyed Reagan’s tariffs and the amount of time for the current depression to occur. Not an exact comparisn, because the Fed did not collect up the bills in circulation and burn it this time, but the comparison is obvious.

          Some have criticized this quasi-private arrangement, claiming that the Federal Reserve System is a private bank. For example, Charles August Lindbergh objected to the private ownership of the Federal Reserve banks, complaining that the financial system “has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board … [which] administers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people’s money.”[52] House Bill HR 1207 is an attempt to force the first outside audit of this place since 1913.

          The “free traders” would have you believe that tariffs caused the Great Depression, but that is untrue, Wilson’s destruction of Lincoln’s tariffs was mostly at fault, the same as now. Hoover’s too little too late tariffs to correct Wilson’s errors were doomed by the Fed. The Federal Reserve “greatly” enhanced the Great Depression by destroying 80% of the cash in circulation in a cash economy [no wonder the bank robbers of the 30’s were romanticized by the citizens] and they acknowledge that fact: “Many have since agreed with Friedman and Schwartz’s theory, including current Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, who said in a 2002 speech:

          “Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You’re right, we did it. We’re very sorry. But thanks to you, we won’t do it again.[18]”

        • Joe Brooks

          Dave H, I did not declare myself as a winner, I simply said your arguments are so ridiculous that any reasonably intelligent person who has actually studied the free trade issue can disprove your nonsense easily. If that makes me the winner, then you should man up and at least be polite.

          Read this, even Harvard economists disagree with your dogmatic and unbending adherence to Psycho-Babble revisionist history and brainless adherence to theory. You need to learn to think for yourself, not just accept any malarkey that comes along, as long as it is from von Mises, the Communist London School of Economics, Heritage and any other hidden agenda propaganda from foreign lobbyists.

          “EVEN economics has its own narratives. Many of them are complex, counter intuitive and at times indecipherable. Yet, there is one so simple and promising a fad that anyone questioning its validity will be forlorn and frowned on. This narrative makes individuals rich, and enriches a nation, provided, that is, it opens all its doors to globalisation, liberalises its trade, reduces tariffs, lifts barriers, embraces liberalised capitalism, and restricts government intervention. Sounds like a potent and viable path to economic growth as well as salvation. Don’t you agree? Author of this book urges you not to.

          A Harvard professor incredulous of glorified stories globalisation brings, Dani Rodrik criticises his fellow economists for their self-serving interpretation of economic narratives, which in turn have guided and shaped economic policies around the world.

          According to him, proponents of globalisation rely too much on rigid textbook theories, while advocates of free market mechanism have been sheltering the ominous consequences resulted by over-the-top capital liberation.

          “The profession has stopped thinking critically, and, as a consequence, makes poor quality arguments justifying their consensus,” writes Rodrik wryly. The path to endless global economic growth is littered with casualties and crises, and globalisation is no longer what it is cracked up to be.

          If that is the case, why haven’t then we stopped believing in this grand narrative, and realised that there is a hefty price to pay to liberate capital and globalise trade? It is because both capitalism and globalisation are the reigning fads of modern world into which both have undeniably created wealth. Rodrik is not fully convinced, and he explains why in this wonderful book in which history, finance, trade, economics, politics and sociology coalesce.

          Rodrik starts by looking back. This current stage of frenzied globalisation and capitalism can be traced back to colonisation, Industrial Revolution, Gold standard era and Bretton Wood regime. Along all these is the emergence of institutions such as IMP, World Bank, WTO with well-intended objectives but rendered ineffective due to their unflinching faiths in globalisation and free capital mobility.”

        • Joe Brooks

          “Let’s face it, Joe, if your eyes are blue it’s because you’re a quart low.”

          So… if Dave H’s eyes are brown is it because he is full of something that is not oil?

          Come on DH, try to keep your side of the discussion above the 6th grade level.

    • Carl Manning


      As an American who sees everyday the Communist flag being hoisted over the District of Criminals, I must say that I am both happy for you and most envious. I pray constantly for guidance from the Holy Spirit on what I should do for me and my family. My ancestors fled England for a better life in America. It may soon be my turn to make the emigration from this land of the 911 lie, which will be judged by Almighty God soon for the Abortion it supports not just here but around the world and the numerous innocent lives it has destroyed in wars based on LIES. I am ex-military myself, and I cannot even salute the American flag any more when it is hoisted because I know now all too well what evil that flag stands for. As things only continue to get worse here and especially when Obama remains Dictator after 2012, whether by rigged election or false-flag or martial law, I predict that you will see a mass exodus of intelligentsia from the United Soviet States of Amerika.

      • Joe Brooks

        The following is the list of Communist goals contained in The Naked Communist:[3]

        1.U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
        2.U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
        3.Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
        4.Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

      • Joe Brooks

        US unilateral free trade with Red China and other countries has been the most insane national policy in the history of the world. US manufacturing dependence on a mass murdering criminal regime is, and always has been, idiocy, besides the $800 Billion/year trade deficits and the poverty and debt that leads to. We cannot make for our military, what America’s most knowledgeable spy warns us about:

        “I’m about to say something that people think is an exaggeration, but I think
        the evidence is pretty strong,” he tells me. “Every major company in the United
        States has already been penetrated by China.”


        … “The British government actually said [something similar] about their own
        country. ”

        Clarke claims, for instance, that the manufacturer of the F-35, our
        next-generation fighter bomber, has been penetrated and F-35 details stolen. And
        don’t get him started on our supply chain of chips, routers and hardware we
        import from Chinese and other foreign suppliers and what may be implanted in
        them—“logic bombs,” trapdoors and “Trojan horses,” all ready to be activated on
        command so we won’t know what hit us. Or what’s already hitting us.

        Richard Clarke’s warnings may sound overly dramatic until you remember that he
        was the man, in September of 2001, who tried to get the White House to act on
        his warnings that Al Qaeda was preparing a spectacular attack on American soil.

        “Your government failed you.”

        Clarke now wants to warn us, urgently, that we are being failed again, being
        left defenseless against a cyberattack that could bring down our nation’s entire
        electronic infrastructure, including the power grid, banking and
        telecommunications, and even our military command system.

        But saying Clarke was a spy doesn’t do him justice. He was a meta-spy, a master counterespionage, counterterrorism savant, the central node where all the most secret, stolen, security-encrypted bits of information gathered by our trillion-dollar human, electronic and satellite intelligence network eventually converged. Clarke has probably been privy to as much “above top secret”- grade espionage intelligence as anyone at Langley, NSA or the White House. I left Clarke’s office feeling that we are at a moment very much like the summer of 2001, when Clarke made his last dire warning. “A couple people have labeled me a Cassandra,” Clarke says. “And I’ve gone back and read my mythology about Cassandra. And the way I read the mythology, it’s pretty clear that Cassandra was right.”

      • nc

        Carl, is the “Almighty God” who is going to judge the US on abortions the same “Almighty God “who killed all of those innocent children in Egypt because he was mad at the Pharaoh! Never have understood why HE didn’t just take out the Pharaoh and leave the innocent children alone????????? As Andy Griffith would say,”Him being ALMIGHTY and all that”!!!

      • Jay

        nc, you’re as ignorant as the day is long! What’s worse, you insist on entangling yourself with a subject matter that is clearly beyond your pay-grade. And, you make yourself out to be a fool for questioning a Being you clearly don’t believe exists! You could be any more of a clown?

  • Jim

    I’d like to slap Schumer upside the head, just once, he’s a walking cluster —-!

  • cawmun cents

    La boata?In la oceano?
    Yeah sure it seems like the thing to do.Take your money and run.
    Businesses do it,why shouldnt individuals?
    Just dont try to come clamboring back in when they have decided to kill you in some foreign land.
    Do I like draconian taxes,and uneeded fees?Not even a little bit.
    Do I think Shumer and his RINO compatriot need to go to the range as targets?
    But what I think needs to happen even more than that is to stay here and see them make targets of themselves,in the political arena.
    These men and women have painted targets on their backs for years,and wave signs telling others that they are protected by whatever they think protects them.
    While by societal means this may be true,however,once people see how idiotic some of these people are,they will eventually just vote them out of office.
    Problem occurs when someone comes along who is backed by the same old tired groups of lobyists,and takes their place.
    What needs to happen is that when folks encounter a candidate,they need to find out where their offices of campaign are located.That will usually tell the tale of what they stand for.
    Big city,big gubment.
    If the folks campaigning for them come from Los Angeles,New York,Chicago,or one of the other area megalopolis’s,chances are that they are big gubment stooges.
    If the party supoorts them,like in the case of Moot Obombney,then chances are they are big gubment stooges.
    I dont know who the other clown is….but Schumer is a big gubment stooge.
    Only socialists and deviants vote for clowns like him.
    That tells you something about our big city inhabitants.They like big gubment.They vote big gubment every time.
    Here where I live in Caliph-own-ya,there is a race in the republican assembly for a seat at the table in the legislatively-retarded state I live in.
    There are two different candidates.
    One is an attractive lady named Beth Gaines.
    One is a man named Andy Pugno.
    On the surface Gaines seems to stand up to scrutiny.
    But when one looks at the top of her campaign flyer,the tale of the tape is read.
    1903 West Magnolia Ave,BURBANK(a suburb of Los Angeles)Ca.91506.
    Mr Pugno’s reads:
    101 Parkshore Dr, Ste.100,Folsom,Ca.95630.
    The difference is that Mr, Pugno’s campaign is a local one and that Ms.Gaines is big city
    gubment funded.
    Thats where the tale of who the candidates represent is made.
    LOOK for the supporters,and find out WHO is representing the candidates.
    If the RINO’s are supporting your candidate,you had better get off your duff and vote for the opposite candidate fast,or you will be singing the same old tune you are singing now far into the future.
    Tell the tale of the tape,the RED TAPE,needs to disappear.

  • FreedomFighter

    “You won’t be surprised to learn which countries head the list. Hong Kong is in first place, with Singapore right behind. Trailing those two Asian countries are Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Canada and Chile. Sad to say, the United States has slipped to 10th place on the list. Frankly, I was a little surprised we haven’t dropped further.”

    Let Obama get another 4 years, America will be right next to North Korea.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • DGR

      Sadly, I have to agree with you…the writing is on the wall and if we don’t do something to change it in November 2012, we will be last on the list in the next four years. Our country should repel the parasitic wave that is inundating us and which will consume us in short time.

    • Brad

      watch how many Americans choose other lands as home if the Wigger steals the election come November. Panama will be my new home whether my wife wants to leave her family behind or not.He has distoyed my business economically wise and I wont survive the expense to live here any longer if this illegal animal’s dead folks and Black Panthers has the ability to steal this election.

      • Winddrinker

        Right now, it is Spain that has our future in its socialist hands! With bho wanting to bail-out the banks in Spain…we can predict which candidate will win..

  • Rob Fisher

    I have thought about going elsewhere, only if we cannot reverse the movement of our government, of removing our liberties. Laws like this that restrict people’s rights, are coming more and more often.. The country our founders created is far and above the greatest in the world, the one our current government is turning it into, is a police state. We have the patriot act, indefinate detention, felony charges for protesting, military control of all resources if the president chooses, 25% of the worlds prison population, complete control of our federal government by the FED, banks, and large corporations like monsanto, tobacco, alchohol, big oil, and such. Our founders warned us about this, and too many people still aren’t paying attention. I speak to my congressmen, and women constantly, and if we do not get enough of us to do so, i fear leaving will be have to be considered.

  • Gary

    I spent 28 years in the United States Army, and my ancestors arrived in America (Louisiana) in 1699 from France…. I will never leave or stop defending America……..

    • DaveH

      Which America, the one our Founders created, or the one which the Progressives have created?

      • Winddrinker

        Duhhh…I bet you know the answer to your own question..

      • DaveH

        No, I don’t. There is not enough information in Gary’s comment to know that.

      • Jay

        Winddrinker, DaveH was simply asking for clarification, rather then assuming. You, however, simply assume, and care not, whether you make an ass of yourself!

        • needfulthings

          Thee ‘FOUNDING FATHERS” were a little corn-fused (or at least our interpetation there of may be)? Not everyone of our Founders got everything they wanted or what we needed to have a lasting nation. Today (last 100 years or so) there is much examination (mostly by the right) of the content of private letters sent to each other to prove a point about our constitution / laws , Yeah their fun to read but it is not the final word. Thee Constitution is our manual and somewhat the ‘BILL OF RIGHTS ” EXCEPT THE LOADED RIGHT WING SUPREME COURT seems to be ignoring the latter and leaves the states to fight it out over the bill of rights.

    • Michael J.

      I congragulate you sir on your service, your heritage, and your resolve to defend America. Though we’ve been lied to for 150 years, the principles instilled in us and our ancestors by the founding fathers are alive and well. The Progressives can not put that genie back in the bottle.

      • nc

        Michael, you say the progressives cannot put the genie back in the bottle that existed in this country 150 years ago!
        What was America like in 1862, 150 years ago when Progressives let the genie out ot the bottle? We were is a civil war over basic rights and state’s right that left us very vulnerable to a takeover, foreign or domestic, of our Republic.Lincoln made a progressive big government move and put into effect the “laws” that made the federal government the winner! We went from there to becoming the number one nation in the world with a string of very PROGRESIVE Presidents> Some better than others but all dedicated to seeing our Republic survive and GROW!! AND GROW IT DID! NUMBER ONE IN THE WORLD THEN AND NOW!

      • Michael J.

        There are effective treatments for Alzheimer’s if you catch it early enough. Or maybe it’s just a mild case of cognitive congestion. At any rate, better get it checked.

        BTW, calm down and quit yelling or you’ll have your kids digging out their copies of your will.

        nc=no clue

  • Diane Kirkland

    If I was faced with paying a billion dollars of my hard earned money in a capital gains tax to a corrupt and unethical government, I would flee too. Perhaps Mr.Saverin feels that his decisions on how to spend his money will benefit others to a greater degree than if he hands it over to the U.S. government. After all, the money would be used to line the pockets of the politically connected and to engage in unjust wars. Instead of penalizing citizens that leave the U.S. because they choose to remain in control of their own money, maybe greedy politicians like Chuck Schumer should work on abolishing the capital gains tax for every citizen that would give investors and philanthropists the incentive to stay.

  • Gringo Infidel

    Consider living somewhere else permanently? Not bloody likely. The commonwealth is a lost cause of inept liberals who take and spend on pet projects because they know better than the average ‘citizen’ what is best for all.
    Texas is the only other country worth living in although I have been to many foreign and strange lands like Chicago, New York and even Sand Diego.

    I’ll stay and fight (metaphorically and literally if need be) but I do lament my country’s slide and many of its rude, selfish behaviors.

    • Deerinwater

      The air has turned bad here in Texas. Seems there is too much of everything in it! From spores, pollen, dust, to burnt JP4.

      I always loved Mexico and would like to return but I’m allergic to bullets.

      If you’ve been luck enough to never have a lot of money, it’s easy to avoid a lot of these problems some many wish to talk about.

      • Brad

        Deer in water you most live in that cess pool called Houston. That is were we need to jail Obama and all the other traitors and terrorist. Because August there with the winds blowing from the south is like the worst warm stinch you can imagine. The rest of Texas besides Midland Odessa is a great place to live and probably the best this country has to offer. I wish would get you a shot of something that cured yout allegies to bullets because we’d love to see you go.

      • Winddrinker

        Houston is a cesspool….. of foreigners. The way things are going there won’t be many Americans left in Houston..Seems as if every nation in the world has set up entire communities and name their own streets..

  • maxinegridi

    This reminds me of a husband-wife situation … wherein (when they first met), the wife was a hard working successful entrepreneur; and the husband was a skirt-chasing bum from off of the street that never held a real job.

    When they married, the wife continued to work and became even more successful.

    ; while her husband continued to skirt-chase and not work.

    Instead, without restraint, he lived the high life on her money … continually raiding her (and now ‘their’) bank accounts … in order to pay for his girlfriends, gambling (and whatever other habits).

    But was the husband at least grateful for this unearned windfall … and a long-suffering and decent wife? Hardly! For him, she was simply the goose who lays the golden eggs!

    Instead, the husband verbally abused, threatened, and (as time went on) began to physically, and repeatedly, batter his loving and faithful wife … until she could no longer take it!

    And so … she fled!

    Instead of having tried to nurture, appreciate, and encourage his wife, the husband (and, in his mind: the owner) has, in effect, driven away the goose that lays the golden eggs.

    So … does the husband at least take time out to consider, that perhaps he could have handled the situation a bit differently … or even that perhaps he is the cause of all this?

    Not a chance! Instead, and as usual, the abusive and possessive ex-husband actually blames her … for everything!

    And now the vengeful, possessive and sociopathic husband behaves as though … it’s time to make her pay big time … for being so ungrateful to him; and for breaking up the marriage!

    • Dr David Hancock

      What a great analogy… sounds like Chuck Schumer!

    • Deerinwater

      That’s what I was thinking. ~ Doesn’t sound too good at her house does it?

      It was a stretch but I connected the dots. Just more “victim behavior”

      I lived though it once myself. ~ it happens.

    • dan

      on the other hand ,there is the long suffering hardworking and faithful husband and the gold-digging or ‘liberated’ woman who decides that sharing just isn’t enough and that half of everything and a fresh start is her path to full-fillment…women love paternalistic socialist big government as a safety net because it means they really don’t need men or husbands to protect and provide.

      • Karolyn

        Women don’t “need” men to protect and provide for anyway.

      • Jody

        Don’t generalize women. I know too many women who would love the type of man you described, and are opposed to the nanny state. But in our society, parasites of BOTH genders are rewarded. This illustrates another problem in our society, how the family courts and divorce industry seek to destroy marriage and make men and women adversaries instead of allies for the purpose of avarice. This insidious industry was also imported from the soviets and the nazis complete with propaganda (Thanks George H.!). So with the new ‘ex-pat act’, the iron curtain has now become tangible.

      • Jay

        Karolyn says: Women don’t “need” men to protect and provide for anyway.

        Yes they do, Karolyn. Both need each other for protection and provision. And by protection and provision, i don’t mean only physical protection, or money. Ponder on that for a while….

    • Brad

      Max I knew a few gold digging B__tches exactly as you described this idiot husband. But who’s counting or keeping score. Point taken though and I agree with the anology. You do realize all men are not that way as I understand not all women are man eaters.

    • DaveH

      That’s what happens when people get spoiled on other peoples’ money. Those of us who are good people, just instinctively expect the recipients to be grateful for their support. But that isn’t the way it usually works.
      The only way to change that is for each individual’s property to be strictly respected, whether Government likes it or not. No other person should be the decider of how the owner’s money is spent, whether they call themselves Government or not.

    • nc

      Maxine,I was connected with the court system for 35 years and saw this played out a thousand times! The wife goes to the courts and when the courts start to “protect” her she comes to court and request that the charges be dropped so the ‘father of their children” can come back home! Even many times refusing to testify! You know what?? He mistreats her again and she does the same thing AGAIN. It doesn’t happen every time but it does happen too often! The courts can handle the facts but they can’t handle the “feelings” I don’t believe in mistreating women! I never touched a woman in anger in my life! I did lose two wives to illness! They got sick of me and left!!

      • Jay

        These are isolated cases, nc. Stop making a mountain out of a mole-hill. And btw, abuse is not gender-specific; its a two-way street!

  • poacher

    schumer and casey should be expatriated or exiled is a better word, for introducing such a totalitarian idea to the laws of the constitutional republic. what would the founders do to these pieces of excrement.

    • DaveH

      If the Founders had anything to do with it, Government would never have grown from spending 3% of our GDP in 1900, to spending 40% of our GDP currently.

      • Flashy

        Which “Founders” are you referring to DaveH? There were literally hundreds who could fit the bill … and each having different ideas and philosophies.

        Oh wait..i forgot. you can slam folks for making what you call ‘generalizations” 9which are actually very specific in detail and substance)…yet you may paste inane and ridiculous links not on point for the most part, draw analogies which no one but those with less than a HS intellect would believe or be able to follow…and generalize in the real definition.

        Sorry…i forgot.

      • DaveH

        Founders like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, James Madison who influenced the adoption of individual liberty that kept our country growing until the Progressives took over and turned us into serfs.
        I haven’t forgotten, Flashman, or Jovianus, or Jeremy Leochner, or whatever other personality you might be assuming at any time, that you are a wacked-out Progressive who is just here to pester good people seeking solutions to the Big Government takeover.
        I also haven’t forgotten that you have no credibility on this board.
        Please keep posting though, as you, NC, Galt, Eric the Red, and some of the other Progressive Posters are most certainly awakening the majority of the readers to the reality of the Immoral and Thieving Progressives. I’ve noticed that more and more posters are losing their blinders. I thank you for that, Flashman.

      • Carl Manning

        During FDR’s New Deal, the government only spent 4% of GDP on welfare programs. Today, thanks to the two Socialist Parties, that number has ballooned to 25% of GDP on Social welfare programs alone. Neither one of these parties will ever do the heavy lifting required to save this country from financial ruin.

      • nc

        DaveH, those forefather who were willing to bet their “lives and fortunes” on a new nation would not have been willing to see a nation spend 40% of the GDP on the government if the government enlarged their “lives and fortunes” by several hundred points???? They may have dressed funny but they weren’t ignorant!!

      • DaveH

        No, NC, they weren’t ignorant. But your logic is very flawed. Here we have the biggest Government in the history of our country (excepting WWII), our economy is sucking mightily, and you equate Big Government with prosperity?
        Pass that doobie this way, NC.

      • Jay

        nc, you’re hopeless!

    • Carl Manning

      Truth be told, if the Founding Fathers had their druthers with the District of Criminals crime syndicate, you would see 535 Congressman and Senators running around screaming with hot black tar and feathers all over them. I would love to see Americans show up at the so-called “townhall” meetings of their Congressmen and Senators with toilet tissue, eggs, pies, squirt guns full of Kool-Aid, and bullhorns to completely humiliate these sorry sacks of seditious, treasonous stinking fecal matter.

  • James Nelson

    I think Chuck should mind his own business,He is always sticks his nose in places it don’t
    belong.everyone should have the right to do whatever they feel that is best for them,Its
    called Freedom, Something he and some Dem, don’t want us to have.

  • 4LoveOfGod&Country

    This goes to show, once again, that the Demo-thieves feel entitiled to all money! Vote them out, plain & simple. Eduardo Saverin is a brilliant young man; my guess is that he will be successful wherever he’s a citizen. The United States should be in the business of attracting more like him. Australia will look good if BHO is re-elected.

  • nc

    Chip, I was delighted to see you speak so highly of John Templeton! He stated in 2005 that signs ALREADY EXISTED that the US housing bubble was going to “bust” by 50% and “bust” it did in 2007 and took the financial market with it!
    Now 2005 was 4 years into the bush presidency and some 9 years into Republican Control of Congress> These are the people who were supposed to be providing OVERSIGHT of all federal housing and financial matters! They controlled every committee in the House and Senate!
    There is a very interesting YOU TUBE video of bush in 2002 PRAISING FANNIE AND FREDDIE for their assisstance in making MORTGAGES available to low income home buyers and ESPECIALLY THANKED them for the mortgage help for those WITH BAD CREDIT HISTORIES which became the most TOXIC of the those mortgages. TYPE IN “BUSH PRAISING FANNIE AND FREDDIE!

    BTW, bush asked for and signed a bill in 2004 using tax payer funds to make the DOWN PAYMENT on some low income homes purchases! Wonder if any of those folks lost their jobs and homes as millions did BEFORE OBAMA WAS SWORN IN? 2.1 million in 2008 alone!!

    • rb

      It’s time to stop blaming Bush….Really….Yes he was a really lousy president that allowed a lot of things to happen that should never have happened. It’s four years later. Are you better off? Have any of these policies been improved upon? Did a Democrat controled Congress fix anything or just give more away to the extreme wealthy then any Republican ever had the public balls to do. Has the Democrat controled White House and Congress stopped putting bank CEOs on the federal reserve board? NO. Has the Democrat in the White House or the Democrat controled Senate even attempted to stop these CEOs from looting the federal treasury? NO. Are we still in Afghanistan fighting for people who don’t want us there? Did the Democrat in the White House invade a soveriegn country to get rid of a government he didn’t like? (Lybia) Is the Democrat in the White House helping (through NATO) import terrorists to Syria in order to fight a government he doesn’t like there? Give it up already. It’s not Bush’s fault any more! It’s the Kenyan!

      • DaveH

        No matter how long Obama rules the country, and no matter how bad the economy gets, NC will always blame somebody other than Obama. It’s a Progressive thing. They can’t accept blame for anything they do.

      • nc

        RB, Until the non Democrats, be they ,the “Republicans,’ “the conservatives” or those who claim no label when it comes to sharing blame, acknowledge their complicity in “our” problems, I will continue to remind them this is not a problem created “entirely” by Obama! That “our” problems began some years before Obama and got much worse before Obama! Compromise between the parties of Clinton and Gingrich made us as strong as we have ever been and that compromise is necessary for us to regain that strength!
        Remember the first appropriations bill for our troops in Iraq! The US Senate voted 100 to 0 for the bill EVEN though there were those who did not favor the war and all represented some people who did not favor the war! That’s compromise!!
        Just asking them to man up and help out and reminding of why they should!!

    • DaveH

      As usual, NC makes it a party thing when he’s been here more than long enough to know that it’s a Big Government thing.

    • DaveH

      The Austrian Economists knew the bust was coming, NC:

      • DaveH

        I wonder how long it took Laffer to eat that crow?

      • Michael J.

        Had not seen that clip before. Laffer was definitely behind the curve on this one.

      • nc

        DaveH, the Austrians may have seen it coming but a H*LL of a lot of Americans did too!2006 and 2008 elections!

  • kayD

    I read that the reason so many people living in foreign countries giving up their US citizenship is that the banks in foreign countires either will not let US citizens have an account or make it so had to maintain an accounts etc. that it is nearly impossible for US citizens to have the documents to pay their US taxes. Did anyone else read about this?

    • Neil

      It is nearly impossible for an American citizen to open a Swiss bank account now.

      Those that flee to Caribbean countries may not understand that their banking systems (life and possessions) may not survive a coup.

    • Jody

      I saw the same stories. But that was our illustrious IRS, which by the way, is also NOT an agency of our gov’t but rather the collection agency for Federal Reserve. That being said, the IRS makes it so difficult in terms of tax documents and intrusiveness into financial affairs of the bank itself that they stopped allowing americans to open bank accounts. I believe this is an intentional consequence to discourage americans from living abroad. Isn’t it ironic that the ‘freest people on earth’ are hunted like criminals so the IRS can intrude into their personal finances. Unconscionable!

      • Winddrinker

        You got that right, Jody, our taxes are deposited in the Federal Reserve Bank, a bank privately-owned by the “global eite!” How many people realize they are sending tax money to a group of the wealthiest people in the world…maybe that is why they are so wealthy and have so much power… And if that doesn’t confirm for you, “who owns this country” you are asleep!

  • Gordon in Texas

    What a bunch of egotistical hypocrites we have in this administration! Schumer, Casey, and the rest of the “gang” are ranting about the possibility that Eduardo Saverin left the country to avoid paying the insane taxes that this country levies on its citizens. I’m sure Schumer and Casey have always paid their fair share of taxes. In my opinion, I believe that Saverin saw the writing on the wall and decided to get out of Dodge before TSHTF. To each their own.

    Me? I have no plans to leave because I believe that this country needs every able-bodied American citizen to pull it back together. I’ve worked too hard to just pack up and leave. And, to those who do choose to leave, how long will THAT grass be greener? This is my home and I’ll be damned if a bunch of socialists will chase me from my home. This country wasn’t founded by those who chose to flee back to England. It was founded by those who “saw” a better life and chose to stay and fight.

    • Deerinwater

      That’s the spirit that we are looking for.

  • richardgibbard

    When this story first broke, I thought of a comment that was attributed to the father of the singer Katy Perry: “How do you make a Jew jealous? Have money.”

  • Kyle

    One of the biggest problems we face today is the lack of desire, on the part of the younger people in this country, to learn or eve care about how our government is run. We need to get away from the socialist agenda being taught in our schools today, and get back to teaching the Constitution and what it means. The young folks today, and a lot of mature adults just don’t understand what is going on within D.C., as the politicians think they are above the law. We, as voters, need to clean out the trash and hold them accountable. May GOD bless the U.S.A.

    • Brad

      Agree 100% with you Kyle, but I fear it possibly is too late. Especially if the traitor is re-elected. But I also beleive if he loses perception will change the out look of Americans almost over night.

      • nc

        Brad, when you and Kyle get your desire “that we get to teaching the Constitution and what it “means”! Who gets to “decide” and teach what it “means” and when it meant it?
        The sixth amendment gave us the right to counsel! Did that mean THEN that if you could not afford one that one would be PROVIDED for US?? It didn’t say that and didn’t MEAN that until many years later!!Did it mean it applied to just Federal cases before the 14th amendment in the 1860s? Did it mean THEN that you had to advised of that right? It doesn’t say that!! Were all of these “changes” to the original language the correct things to do or wrong things to do??? WHEN ARE YOU ENTITLED TO COUNSEL? It seems the US Supreme Court has had as much or more to say about out rights than the Constitution!!!!
        Teaching the constitution and deciding what it means is a matter FOR ALL citizens not just the people who don’t like it now!! The founding fathers knew these questions and different interpretations would arise and made it difficult to change the wording so it wouldn’t be changed on the WHIM of some nut job in the White House or a stronly partisan congress!
        What does your Constitution mean?? Do even both of you agree?? Which of you get to say?? What happenS to the one (ONES) who loses that argument?
        The Constitution is a very complex thing because the mind is a very complex thing! There have been many interpretations by great minds of about every word! Thus the many volumes of the decisions by the Supreme Court of matters when even Conservative DISAGREED about what it ‘MEANS”

    • DaveH
    • Power To The People

      Good point Kyle….the progressives stated in the 60′s that they would “change the hearts and minds through re-education”. They are doing just that! It will take decades to undo the socialist teaching at the elementary, secondary and college level. The socialists run the school systems, government and the media.

      Religion aside, the turn in events in our country over the past 50 years has assured our plunge over the cliff. We are screwed!

    • Winddrinker

      These young people have parents…don’t they! Maybe it is the parents job (rather than depending on schools) to instill patriotism for this country! There is nothing to stop parents from educating kids about their country and what makes it great. One of the problems with the young is that their parents were not good examples, themselves. The parents didn’t demonstrate patriotism and love for country.,.

  • Cindy in NC

    I would pray as we already are about whether God would have us leave our Country. My husband served in the Gulf war, he served on the battefield very well in a Special Ops Unit. He is very patriotic, but also clearly understands where our country is headed. We know, also, that the Bible warns us of these times that are upon us. God had Abraham leave his homeland because he had a purpose for him elsewhere /for all of us/. After Joseph was taken to Egypt as a slave (sold by his jealous brothers) his father Jacob eventually joined him as a fulfillment of Gods purposes. Moses was hidden by his Hebrew mother so he wouldn’t be killed from the Egyptian decree that all the Hebrew children under 2 were to be killed…then he was found and raised by an Egyptian, Pharoahs daughter. Then after living and serving as a son of Pharoah he had to flee because he killed an Egyptian guard. He wandered for 40 years until God appeared to him and called him to go back to Pharoah to have His people saved from their bondage. Point is that we go where God tells us and He fulfills his purpose in and through us… this is, of course, if people are seeking His will. If people are just living for themselves, then it probably doesn’t really matter anyway because they would then be relying on the governments of the world and ‘none’ of them are relying on Gods rule as our Founding fathers intended for us! Just my humble opinion based on Gods word….

    • DaveH

      The Gulf War started because Saddam invaded Kuwait.
      I can think of only one other country which has made that invasion look puny in comparison.

    • nc

      Cindy, this thing of the Jews in Egypt brings up a most disturbing part of the BIBLE. Why did God kill all of those innocent Egyptian children when his beef was with the Pharaoh?
      A different side of the benevolent God??
      Massive late (real late) term abortions??

      • cawmun cents

        Pharaoh called his own son’s death,when He stubbornly refused to give freedom to others.
        He decided to murder the firstborn of the Hebrews,and fell victim to his own plague.
        When you question God and His motives,you will fall victim to your own plague.
        That is your destiny.
        It is a sad and tragic one,but you called it.

  • John

    Over 4 million laws
    unfair taxes
    unfair child support ( men quit working so as not to pay the nasty cheating Byatch)
    lack of freedom
    21 year old drinking age when every other country’s are 18 or less
    I served 20 years and am a vet I am ashamed of the USA
    Some idiot now wants to make soda over 16 illegal THIS IS DISGUSTING
    DA’s try to jail everyone disgusting unfair RICO acts put Providences best mayor in jail
    I can not wait to retire and leave this rotten country where now greedy CEO earn 342 times the lowest paid full time worker in their company
    realize this as u buckle your seat belt! Realize this when inflation happens because NOW we are as much in debt as Greece but we cook the books and oil is in dollars

    • Jody

      You forgot George W. wanting to be paid $1.3mm/yr as a pension/reward for continuing to screw us over during his tenure.

    • ….

      Maybe you shouldn’t wait until you retire to take your unAmerican/unpatriotic views with you-you and the rest of the people on this site that find joy in tearing down this country.
      If you don’t have answers be quiet- whiners. Channel your anger positively.

  • John

    Those two anti freedom senators should be jailed!

  • DaveH

    Chuck Schumer said — “Saverin has turned his back on the country that welcomed him and kept him safe, educated him and helped him become a billionaire”.
    Sure, Chuck. You kept him safe (?) and educated him with OPM (other peoples’ money). And helped him become a billionaire? How exactly did the Government do that? By regulating him to the point of his stubbornly resisting the obstacles set up to thwart his efforts?
    You see, folks, this is how the Progressives work. First they take other peoples’; then they offer you unsolicited gifts; then they obligate you for those unsolicited gifts. Like a guy who buys dinner for a lady with stolen money and then tells the lady she owes him sex.
    Beware of Progressives Bearing Gifts.

    • DaveH

      That should have been — “first they take other peoples’ money”.

    • Jaesun

      The two low life democrats, Shumer and Casey forget who they are supposed to be working for. Their revenge tactics do not serve the people but obviously serve their own interests and that of the ruling class, who collectively are a group of low lifes who are more interesterd in limiting liberties. Support any of the “ruling class” and you deserve whatever crap they heap on you.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Robert Cerza


      You are correct sir. Senator Schumer has not created any jobs, or wealth for others in his entire working career. However, Chuck has cashed the checks that we the working people of America have paid him for many years.

      Schumer’s position on this guy from Face Book is very simple,and it has nothing to do with moral outrage at all..Simply put, its all about control of our assets by people like Schumer who are far more enlightened than the people who actually earned their money.The Progressives need us to stay put so they can control our assets, which in turn enables them to buy votes thru the redisrtibution of our wealth.

      Although Schumer could not lead a group in silent prayer, he is in a position do do great harm to our country..Perhaps Schumer should ask why more people are pulling their assets out of the US, and relocating abroad..Not to mention the millions of Americans who are actively pursuing Dual Citizenship status abroad..The sad irony here is that Chuck and his party played a big role in convincing the Face Book Kazillionare to get out of Dodge..

      Kind Regards,

      Robert A. Cerza

    • Thebelldiver

      The citizens of America are the lady in the date and the government is bringing all their friends over for a piece too. Yeah its time to dump the government and all it’s friends.

    • Neil Wilson

      Sorry, I don’t get your logic. Would you PLEASE restate that more clearly?

  • ASM

    These Senators who are crying foul will leave the young poor USA in a heartbeat if some country offers them a few tens of millions – they may even leave their family.
    Some of these elected reps of the people sell their souls to the big corporations for a few thousand lousy dollars. .

    • Jody

      No they don’t sell THEIR souls, they sell OURS and our children’s. This is already a slave nation, they are just adding icing to the cake.

  • JuanRa

    The Unintended consequences of stupid nanny state policies. Once they try to tax more, more people will smuggle cash in their luggages and deposit it in offshore, and the tax paid will be even lesssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Alex

    I do not have to think about leaving this wretched country—-it left me many many years ago. I consider myself to be a Californian—that is “my country”. Like Saverin, this nation means nothing to me. I don’t fight for our Fatherland, I burn its flag quite often, I cheer for it to lose every war it gets into. Sure, it is sad for people to die, but better our mercenaries die than our “adversaries”, whose countries are usually smaller and weaker. Our stupid country fights for no one’s freedom—we fight, instead, for Capital, the most sinful of all reasons to kill.

    So, yeah, I live within the borders of the White Estates of Amerikkka, but I sure do not consider myself “American”—no way. Like I say, I am a Californian. Yes, I am subject to the laws of this plutocracy so I keep myself out of trouble. I have never been arrested for burning the ugly Red-White-and-Boo-hoo-hoo rag—so far, it is still within my rights as— well, as a Californian.

    When you get down to it, countries are ridiculously asinine concoctions, figments—–simply lines drawn in the dirt. As far as God and I care, there is really no difference between a plumber in Schenectady and a haberdasher in Addis Abbaba–we are all merely “Citizens of the World”. Most of you people are just too hung up on ideas like “us and them” and “mine, mine, mine” In a word, pathetic.

    Grow up. Trade your political maps—the ones with all of the little lines—-for geographic maps that reflect the truer world. Discard your tired “us vs them” mentality while you’re at it.

    • mnyshrpknvs

      And you are a BIG part of whats wrong with this country. If you hate this country so much, sever your Umbilical Cord of American Money that supports your Unpatriotic Ass, and move to a country to a country like North Korea, China or a little place in Africa called the Congo, where you may grow to appreciate what little is left in this country and is worth fightning for.

      • Alex

        Like I wrote, I am a Californian. I was born there and I never have to leave unless I want to.

      • Winddrinker

        Alec, why are you bragging about being a californian, the land of fruits and nuts!
        California is broke and wants the States that have been responsible with their money, to support its california “derelicts!” It is a “gimme group of people” with crazy ideas they should be supported with other people’s money.

    • Alex

      CORRECTION: I wrote that the countries we send our mercenary “heroes” to kill in are “usually smaller and weaker”—-make that, ALWAYS smaller and weaker. Grenada. Nicaragua, Panama, Mexico, Iraq, El Salvador, the Dominican Republic, Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Cuba, the Philippines, etc.

      We are bullies. Spoiled bullies. Example: we whine about drugs coming into this country and yet FORCE other nations to accept our tobacco and institute retaliatory trade wars against those who refuse OUR poison! How Evil is THAT?!? Tobacco kills more people worldwide than ALL OF THE ILLEGAL DRUGS PUT TOGETHER!! This bloated country is a whore, a cheap whore who will sleep with ANY country if there is a buck in it. Case in point—At the same time we were getting our butts kicked by a determined Vietnamese people we were engaged in boffo business with the Repugnance of South Africa, EVEN THOUGH they treated their citizens MUCH WORSE that the North Vietnamese. Why? Because South Africa had gold and diamonds. So we sent Black Americans to kill Vietnamese babies in order to save them from Communism—even though these same Black soldiers had, in many places, less rights than the Vietnamese—while at the same time we were sleeping with, well, actually whoring ourselves out to the South Africans for MONEY. What a slut America is—ANYTHING for a buck!

      Do ANY of you ever ask yourselves why, if our wars are meant to bring freedom to the world’s peoples, did we not bomb the Hell out of Pretoria and send our youngsters THERE to kill and die? You know why. It’s a Black and White thing….

      • DaveH

        I left the Socialist State of California 20 years ago and have not regretted it since.
        Okay, Alex, you got the Killing thing right, but how about the Stealing thing? How do you rationalize the California Government helping themselves to other peoples’ money? And even people who haven’t yet reached adulthood but are subject to repaying California’s debt?

      • Jody

        No it’s not a black and white thing. That’s simply a rationalization of unsavory behavior. It’s an orchestration of the puppet masters/banking cartel (See Bilderbergers) and quit being so manipulated.

      • Jay

        DaveH, don’t let the fact that Alex got the killing thing right, fool you. This boy is a communist/fascist/progressive/socialist, ALL THE WAY; and he’s a mouth-piece for the NWO. What the simpleton doesn’t understand is that, ALL, world leaders, conspire to create/make war, under the leadership of the NWO. As well, he fails to discern, that all the wars he mentioned, are brokered deals, made between both countries’ leaders, for the purpose of gain. War is a “two-way street”, paved with gold, for the looser(s), seemingly, and the winner(s), seemingly. Its the biggest hoax perpetrated unto the masses, and what makes it work, keeps it going? The lie that there is ONE, bad-guy, the aggressor. Non-sense! Rather, its a collaborative effort, a pre-scripted play, where the lives of the innocent and unsuspecting are sacrificed! Right and wrong, good guy-bad guy? Its just a game…that pays large for all involved. What’s a few thousand people, or even a few million, when the booty can be in the billions and trillions, to be divided between the so-called “Aggressor”, and the so-called “Victim”!

    • Brad

      Alex not many left in California that matter just many free loaders. I hope that state or corruption falls into the ocean before I die. Because that will be some funny sh_t there baby!

  • Steve E

    Better watch your back Eduardo Saverin. Obama may send a drone your way. The foolish people in this country are allowing this to happen now.

  • mnyshrpknvs

    Look in the mirror Chuck. You and your Democrat and Republican Partners turned your back on the country that made you wealthy and kept you safe as well. You folks are the BIGGEST offenders of Patriotism.

    • Thinking About

      One has the right to leave this country and perhaps go where they please or countries which will accept them. Go and return no more, stop collecting from our system. Say what you want and be gone.

  • NoMoreMarxistsInDC

    What stupid people do not understand is that we don’t have to pay income taxes in this country. There is no law requiring anyone to pay income taxes. If you can find it, I would be glad to fork over $10,000 to the person who can find it. But, to date, and many rewards over $100,000 later, no one can seem to find it.

    In fact, no one should pay taxes. Since El Presidente Obummer has stated that he wants to “redistribute” all of our wealth to his cronies, lobbyists and deadbeat welfare voters, I say we should oblige. Everyone should declare 310 Million dependents/exemptions on their federal and state tax returns. That would be the ultimate example of redistribution of wealth. This has been done before and is LEGAL. According to U.S. v. Snider, 502 F.2d 645 (4th Cir. 1974), the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit declared that 3 BILLION dependents on a W-4 filed by a couple was proper because they were conscientious objectors protesting the waste of taxpayers’ monies being used for foreign aid to our enemies and to support unlawful wars, instead of taking care of the problems here in the USA.

  • Robert E. Simmons

    The United States [government] has brought this upon itself, and by association, brought it to all of us.
    We have had nearly 100 years of the Federal Reserve, the IRS, and every imaginable tax there could ever be, and since the turn of the millenium into the 2000s, the most reckless and irresponsible spending and fiscal policies in the annals of this country’s history. The USA is the only country (not one of the few countries, the ONLY country) to have such a broad over-reach by its IRS into the business and pockets of its [still] documented citizens who live abroad, and expect to be able to tax any and all income, even it 100% of it is earned outside the country. That is just downright despicable. Is there no end, no limit to what this agency can do and expect? I read of an American woman who married a Brit and who lives in England. She doesn’t hold a job, but shares a joint account with her British [citizen] husband who provides all their income. Just by association, and the fact that he is married to an American, the IRS is demanding access to all their financial details, and a tax return from her. Predictably, he told the IRS and the USA where to go, and that triggers a criminal investigation of her and her affairs. This is just unconscionable!
    I don’t blame any and all US citizens who’ve had enough, to turn in their citizenship, wave good-bye and not look back. What has happened to our fine country? Why aren’t intelligent, and in some cases powerful and infuential private citizens, not “pulling out the heavy [legal] artillery,” and fighting this agency and government for all its worth?! I’m not well off by any stretch of the imagination, but I have become exasperated and disgusted with the federal government enough to almost want to call it quits, too.
    What??! Only some 500 to 1000 people hold [financial] sway over 320 million of us, and brought our nation to near ruin, just so they could remain in office and live large at taxpayer expense?? It’s time, America and American citizens, for broad and sweeping changes!! We’re long overdue for some self-denial in leadership. Too many politicians have enjoyed the good life for too long,

    • nc

      Robert, you are moaning over the growth of the “tax” policies of the USA since 1900. Let’s see! Since 1900 we have fought 2 world wars, several large other ones, a bunch of smaller ones, created the the most costly but effective military in the history of man, gone to the moon and beyond, supported a major,major highwway system, cared for our brave wounded soldiers and kept our gutters free from discarded old people, citizens who starved to death from paying taxes and unwanted babies as we have grown to a country of 320 million people!
      Sorry that we had to move beyond the 1900 pre-income tax system to handle all of that BUT A FEW MINOR ADJUSTMENTS JUST HAD TO BE MADE! You can understand that to do all of the above and MORE,much more, some sort of tax had to be collected and a system and policies maintained to collect it??
      We are the greatest nation in the world but feel FREE to seek greener grass! There is not a provision in the Constitution that made it easy or cheap to provide the government it established! I doubt seriously the founding fathers,as billiant and talented as they were, envisioned the Atomic Age and the costs it cast upon our nation! In fact, those folks in 1900 had little knowledge of its’ coming impact!!!

      • DaveH

        No, NC, there is no excuse for growing Government 13 times its size in 1900. It is simply Progressive Leaders taking more Power and Money for themselves at the expense of the citizens. We certainly didn’t need to get involved in the overseas conflicts, and most of the rest that Government does could be purchased in the private marketplace by people who desired such things, and with their OWN money.
        Their is no excuse for Gargantuan Government, and no excuse for Ignorant Progressive Followers who will not throw in the towel no matter how much their policies have damaged our economy.

      • Jay

        DaveH, its becoming increasingly clear that nc is a welfare recipient, or on some kind of entitlement-government-program. As no self-sufficient, hard-working, tax-paying-person, would exhibit the kind of entitlement-mentality that nc exhibits. Much less, would they argue for the need for big-government, as nc does, and that, without the least bit of shame!

  • DJ

    Ah…….the IRON CURTAIN……..step one.

  • martin fee

    Is this not the exact samething as one one of the 12 pillars of communism, where they talk about taking everything they can from anyone who choses to leave the parent nation? plus they bar them from ever coming back. This should expel any doubt of the democrat party being the new americancommunist party

  • Patriotic nut

    Has anyone else noticed the coincidence of people leaving the U.S. and people moving out of California at the same pace or faster. That’s right you idiots in DC, there is a glaring example of what is going to happen to the U.S. if you manage to get all those tax increases on the terrible rich folks. California is bankrupt and the wealthy population and businesses are leaving it to sink. The country is not far behind it. Maybe we with a little common sense should just egg them on and watch as the federal government collapses upon itself. Then we could replace their idiotic, moronic, power hungry rears with actual public servants to do what we the people actually expect them to.

    • http://none Jim

      It isn’t just California. It is New Your, Connecticut and many of the high tax states. However, the real coincidence and something to ponder is why exactly were things like the Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain created? It certainly wasn’t to keep people out, but to keep them in. What we need to concern our selves with now is that with the modern day of electronics, a similar construct which I have termed as an “Electronic Iron Curtain” is being constructed around us as we speak. The latest gimmick is the “concern for owing income tax will now be a trigger to REVOKE PASSPORTS and keep people from leaving. Strange how the IRS is being brought into play for concerns over participation in the Health Care Scam of the century, and now pulling passports, and then ther are the exit taxes. Yep, lets keep connecting the dots and one day you simply will NOT be allowed to leave. Monied people are fleeing Greece, France and Spain as we speak. Isn’t change and utopia a wonderful thing?

    • DaveH

      The Federal Government will not collapse upon itself. They will keep taking and taking until we are in abject poverty just as the Leaders in North Korea and Cuba have done.


    I bet that what these new taxes will actually do is to keep new money from coming in as capital, and so if it comes in at all, it will come in as loan funds only so profits will go out as interest instead if taxes are lower on interest and as more people are driven to go to HK or Singapore, though taxes would not be the reason in Australia, your country will be left with only welfare takers and the politicians who really are also themselves living on highly paid government welfare payments,dont you agree.?

    What do we call politicians who are ‘not in government’ positions…unemployed? Well they do act as if they are not in the job they had grown up to believe they could do a better job instead of the current mob in congress? Yet they will do everything they can do to change the enough voters to change the voter percentage so an extra few newly employed on huge government welfare salaries will then be able to allow the other new party to do great things with other peoples money or reduce taxes but increase borrowings or increase printing new money and then go on a plan of creating inflation so those huge borrowing or huge printings of new money wont seem so much after hyper inflation,

    It is all a big monopoly game to most politicians as long as some of any type of money sticks in their own pockets along the way. ANYONE AGREE WITH ME?

    • Brad

      yes I do Giily

  • Denise

    Nothing like Beautiful America. If we could just get the Corrupt Government out of the way we would become number 1 again. They are just pushing more wealthy people away to invest somewhere else and we will become a garbage dump. Vote Romney. He will clean house


      Denise, i agree with your first statement, but dont believe anything will change under Romney as nice and an honorable guy that he may be.

  • http://none Jim

    And only Barrack Obama and his goons know how to spread the wealth since those who EARN it are too dumb to realize the need. Not to mention they all make their fortunes by skimming huge chunks off the top to fund their own lavish lifestyles in the process. So the ministies and charities and extended family that I support and fund can now take a number and get to the back of the line…behind Obama and gangs pet projects and cronies…and there is NOTHING wrong with that picture? How dare we rattle the rafters and demand to have control over our lives, our hard work and our earnings….No, just let the Marxists have it and tell us all what to do and how to live. After all history is repleat with living examples of exatly how that works…Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Lenin Chaves, Castro all come to mind…Yeah I believe in utopia too.

  • testament2012

    sen schumer is like a flea on a dogs a*s, does anyone really think he gives a damn about the dog.

  • diamond1957

    sen schumer is like an old flea on a dog’s a*s, do you really think he gives a damn about the dog.

  • duif100

    We must put the horse before the wagon.

    Do we have to punish successful people who leave the country or do we need to get rid of the politicians who drive successful people out of the country?

    • Power To The People

      The latter for sure….

  • Buck

    Those fools that want to pass this bill are the same fools responsible for good citizens jumping a sinking ship even as the same establishment continues to widen the holes in the hull to accelerate the sinking rate . Schumers lunacy is exceeded only by Obamass , Reid , and Pelosi .. What a bunch of human wastes .

    • Winddrinker

      Eventually, the wealthy will leave or they will become penniless. The rest of the people will become laborers for the global elite and they will not profit from their labors.

      Our country is being transformed, as promised, with lightening speed!

  • Bonnie

    And now we have Romney to vote for, (another Bush, another Bush, another Dole, another McCain, another Rhino).
    What the heck is wrong with Ron Paul. You gripe and gripe yet are afraid to do something different. You vote for taxes and more taxes or less taxes….and you vote for more laws and bad laws and restrictive laws…… all in varying degrees. Think outside the box! Do something different.

    • DaveH

      They’ve been heavily Propagandized, Bonnie. It take time for the Detox to take effect.

    • Jody

      RP is the only candidate that I have any respect for. But to answer your question, the answer is: Mainstream media coupled with people who don’t research the candidates for themselves. Ron Paul is the closest thing we have to Thomas Jefferson and we are throwing it in his face. Not one person opposing him has ever taken 10 seconds to consider the risks he is taking. Assassination, just for starters if he should win. That’s no small thing, but I guess if you’re a feeble minded armchair warrior, it’s not even worth entertaining the thought.


        Well said Jody.

    • nc

      Bonnie, Your Mr. Paul is the one and only one who chose to put the (R) beside his name! What has that done for him on a national leardership level?IT got him a chance to stand on a stage beside Michele Bachmann and get asked one question every 3 weeks?? Get 10% of the (R) vote in each primary? If that is the political life he chooses to live he deserves no better than his present position! The way to the top is NOT to get just 10% of the vote every four years! UNTIL HE WALKS AWAY FROM THE ELITE REPUBLICANS WHO OWN THE (R) HE WILL REMAIN A FIRST CLASS PERSON WITH A 10% CHANCE TO LEAD

      • DaveH

        There goes NC with the shouting thing again. As if that makes his irrelevant comment more relevant.
        NC, how many people score in the 90th percentile? Does being in the minority make them wrong? Wait, don’t answer that until I can locate my barf bag.

      • Carl Manning


        I agree with you 100% on this, and I am a Ron Paul supporter myself.

  • Da

    This just shows America how “EVIL” these “NAZI” senators like scummer really are.


    I would place a value on American Citizenships and allocate shares to current citizens but ALL NEW visitors wanting to join must be sold a citizenship share at the set value or use it as a bond like a school education loan against them which they must pay when they leave or die but if the asset value goes up they have to pay more…and to encourage them to pay it off during their life at a lower price…the revenues to be used ONLY to reduce your government debts…. thats the germ of the idea but some other smarty might make it work better.. would it work at all..? lol dont ask me how you would allocate shares to

    At the moment it costs nothing much to join the USA citizenship club…and everyone wants to join…maybe its time toi put a stock market price on your citizenships. ?? you tell me

    • rb

      We should never charge to be a citizen! We should always provide an affordable alternative to whoever wants to come to this country and become a PRODUCTIVE citizen. No medical benfits to non citizens. No Social Security payments to non citizens or those who came here to “reitre” but never paid a penny into the system. A fair opportunity but no free handouts unless of course you would like to offer free and mandatory lessons in speaking English because that is the only language the citizenship test is written in anymore. (At last count it was 46 different languages).

  • uvuvuv

    australia would be okay to move to but they don’t speak english, in fact they haven’t spoken it in years. also their money is screwed up. they have a quarter sized coin that’s worth 20 cents, and what we call a dime they call a nickel, and what we call a nickel they call a dime. in other words, the larger coin is worth more, which sounds logical but try to count out change. their penny is like a shirt button. they don’t use dollar bills, they use a brass coin that is good and thick and solid. but if you keep a few bucks in your pocket you will wear a hole through. their paper money is like ours in width but an inch taller. our wallets don’t work there. i don’t know what the exchange rate is there now but in 1987 i went into the bank and got 150 for my 100 dollars. the reason was it was and is a modern country where people want all the accoutrements of middle class lives, but they didn’t really have an economy to support this because of their low population. i saw in person parramatta road.

    • rb

      Well I believe things have changed a bit there in the past 25 years. I know they have here. Thanks to the rock solid fiscal policies of our feds the exchange rate is about 1 US dollar to 1.03 Australian dollars for instance. (About the same as the Canadian exchange rate) Not sure what language you believe they speak but my Australian friends all speak great English and use it regularly.


      uvuvuv, YOU must have been in Australia 1965 because in 1966 we got rid of pennies and pounds…we changed to $1 & $2 notes and then gold coloured brass dollar coins for $1 and $2 later on as the value of the paper money dropped..we still have silver 5 cents, 10 cents , 20 cents and 50 cent coins all silver but they have little value.

      We write in English language and we still try to spell Colour not color the american version but with spell check being american english its almost impossible and we do speak our version of english which can be understood by most people without hearing difficulties..Our $1 is worth around $US1

      All our contracts are based on the English system and so is our judicial system so not sure what language you were spoken to and by whom…but if you can read this…you can easily communicate in Australia.

      As I said before step outside your states and visit us in Australia…and then tell me if life is not grand here. We not suggesting you drop your citizenship rather we suggest you hang onto it and come and invest and innovate and proposer here too as indeed there will be red and green tape but you will still proper in many ways…open up your eyes and travel outside your nation…and learn..relax and enjoy the fresh air…lol


    I urge all ye bright Americans to keep your citizenship shares but move to Australia where opportunities abound despite many green and red We have the worlds richest woman in Australia and many more billionaires which are never published in Forbes magazines. some people do value their privacy in things financial.

    But the opportunities are substantial…huge…boundless…for young or old entrepenuers…believe me life is grand in Australia despite the garbage to see and hear in the Murdoch fictional media empire…lol

    • Jody

      Can you get on a plane without being sexually assaulted by brown shirts? If the answer is yes, I’m moving, but I am renouncing my citizenship at the earliest opportunity. No reason to keep it unless I like the IRS and as an accountant, I don’t!


        Jody, love to have you migrate over, but Pardon my ignorance in terms…Who are brown shirts. ?

      • nc

        Jody, stick to you guns and move to a country where “brown shirts do not sexually assualt” you at the airport! When you are flying out of your new country and some good looking blond boards with a crotch bomb and sets that bad boy off in mid-flight here are a couple ot things you can think about as your body minus the arms heads for the Atlantic,

        D**n, I paid in advance for the next two weeks in Aruba!
        2: D*MN, I just paid my income taxes in my new country to protect me from terrorist!
        3: You know, those searches back in th good old USA were not that bad when you consider the consequences!


      • Jay

        Gee nc, didn’t have you pegged for a “gloom and doom” conspiracy nut! I guess i was wrong.

  • Dave S.

    I was born on the Fourth of July in the 1950′s. As a child in Elementary school I recited the Pledge of Allegance to the Flag in our classroom every morning, stood at my desk and placed a hand over my heart at Noon while loudspeakers recited the National Anthem. I’m a Military Vet who has served in three branches of the Armed Forces and a former City Police Officer. I’ve been a Cub Scout, Boy Scout and a member of the Civil Air Patrol.

    When I participate in a Patriotic Event (such as listening to the National Anthem or a National Prayer- or as the member of, or audience to such an event), I give proper respect and reverence to the spirit of the event. It’s my understanding that the crowd I’m in would like to show their appreciation to our Founding Fathers for the awesome freedoms and liberties generations of my fellow citizens and ancestors have had access to.

    Unfortunately, corruption has destroyed those ideals in recent years. Liberty and freedom are now itemized and picked apart- them scrutinized, debated, licensed, taxed, registered, and handed back to us. We now enjoy those liberties and freedoms after submitting to a collage of ridiculous regulatory compliance. If any of us stray outside those regulatory guidelines we are brutally punished by the Authority of the Federal Government or The State. Some easy examples to see are the firearms regulations and drug laws we are all subject to.

    Lately, to ensure complete compliance to law and submission to the Authority of our Government, our lives have been smothered in layer upon layer of surveillance. Cameras are everywhere to catch every angle possible when someone violates a law, rule, policy, or even people who seem to be planning to do so. The City of Houston, Texas is using flying drones to assist Law Enforcement… in WHAT? (And now other Texas cities are interested in buying their own surveillance drones).

    Didn’t the Colonists that came to this continent revolt against a similar authority and form a new authority that could guarantee that this would NOT happen again? Well it has happened and it will get much more intense.

    Personally, I’ve been considering leaving this country for several years. The freedoms that are being restricted here are available elsewhere. Before anyone calls me- or any fellow American unpatriotic for leaving our home to start a new life- consider turning your ire towards the corrupt authority that is destroying our Founding Fathers’ dream. Our constitution guarantees the right of expatriation. It’s part of the checks and balances that are supposed to keep Government under the control of the People. And like the rest of our liberties, it’s being picked apart, scrutinized, debated, licensed, taxed, registered and handed back to us.

    I speak more than one language (a skill that I’ve been secretly developing for a few years) and I can be just as patriotic to America on another continent as I was as a child. Don’t EVER FORGET, People- no one should stand in my way- or YOUR way if you want to give your family and your family’s future an upgrade in the quality of life. You and I can travel to other countries any time we want to and be American there, too.

    • Carl Manning

      When Obama’s Department of Homeland Security goons, who have already purchased over 450,000,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition, finally start the Civil War they have been planning for some time now very soon, based on the recent account of Hagmann’s whistleblower friend, even the Banana Republic of Mexico with all of its drug cartels, beheadings, and nasty water will eventually seem like prime real estate for emigration. At the moment, my eyes are on Canada. Canada has very little national debt. Alberta has more Conservatives and lots of jobs in the oil business, and there’s snow skiing in the mountains. I have lived most of my life in either Atlanta, Georgia, or Savannah, Georgia, so snow isn’t usually my thing, but that’s how serious I am about leaving the daughter of Babylon, whose destruction is chronicled in the Book of Revelation. God said, “Come out of her, my People!” My heart is really no longer with this country of my birth just as my soul no longer wishes to partake of her evil.

  • Corsica

    The article says that this country helped make Saverin a billionaire. How so? Did the country give him the idea for Facebook? Did it give him money to buy shares? Yes, taxes should be paid as long as they’re REASONABLE. Not the gouging and double dipping that the IRS does. By the way, Facebook produces nothing. This country has the most insane, unfair, inefficient and wasteful tax code. There are illegal aliens who never paid a cent in taxes collecting refunds from the IRS with their compliments, yet Congress screams and chants at people like Saverin?

    The article asks what about us, the reader, would we move to another country? I have thought about what country would be nice to move to, since this country is turning into a 3rd world failed state. In my town I hear nothing but spanish being spoken, the streets haven’t been paved in 20 years, and the town is revaluating properties for higher taxes that are already too high.

    • http://facebook firedup

      I could’nt agree with you ANYMORE – I’m middle class and to have all these knuckleheads coming off towards me with this entitlement mindset that they somehow deserve what i’ve earned for what? because they’re somehow special? that they don’t have to put in the hardwork that i do? that i’m supposed to feel sorry or obligated to help them for some bizarre reason? Because they’re country won’t take care of them we’re supposed to? What about their countries immigration laws? Our government is trying to turn this country into the cesspool that tijuana is – the signs only get more blatant with each term from “slick willie” onward – They’ll will continue to be above the pit they turn this country into – which is why i look at leaving/retiring elsewhere somewhere where there is some form of common sense still being used… We need immigration reform alright – we need to STRENGTHEN our current laws not this crap of weakening them!!

  • Rafael

    The pursue of happiness, that is only for the rhetoric, demagogues politicians.

    Nothing is more destructive of peace or prosperity than the Marxist version of government.

  • Daniel from TN

    Schumer is another poster child for term limits for members of Congress.

  • http://None Mike C

    Interesting… Our politicians don’t seem to care about JOBS going overseas. As long as they can take flesh from those who profit from outsourcing then they are safe and their government salary is safe.

    Schumer and Casey can only exist by living off capitalists like Mr. Eduardo. So they are looking to keep their fastest Ponies in the stable.

    As always… the government cannot provide something without first taking it from someone else.

  • http://facebook firedup

    If our so-called ” chief ” somehow manages to WEASEL his way into another term – after all the criminal acts he’s perpetrated i don’t believe this country will survive in any recognizable form.I love this country – I’ve served in the military,i work in civil service due to the time i spent in the military i’m thoroughly blue-collar middle class – i’m fed-up with my hard-earned money being pissed away while having to deal with illegals arrogant,jealous,envying,antagonistic,entitlement mind set – and then have these clowns turn around and laugh about it?? The signs are everywhere that from ” slick willie ” onward they’ve been taking very definate,concerted steps to erase the borders of this once great nation into who knows what.I don’t know how many of you have been south of the border recently but thats what this country will end up looking like – If theres a 2nd term i’m not going to retire in their vision of a ” change ” i’ve got inroads into different islands in the Phillipines – there i’d be able to retire and live somewhat of a recognizable comfortable retirement without a country full of worthless deadbeats siphoning off my hard earned tax dollars – Its a thought that has been growing in merit, steadily -

  • Shaana

    Wait, wait, wait….did I just read correctly that they are going to ban someone from LEGALLY entering the country because they made TOO MUCH MONEY (and therefor doesn’t need the givernments money) and then moved? Yet, we allow anyone else to ILLEGALLY enter this country and mooch of the government?

    • http://None Mike C

      Yes Shaana. That government that you pay for… that government of the people… is now composed of career politicians. Individuals more concerned with the tax stream and protecting their own existance. Less concerned with protecting the borders becasue 1) those illegals will eventually find a way to vote for the left and keep them in office and 2) they feel guilty for a war that was fought over 150 years ago. Guilt for taking land during our manifest destiny era.

  • Power To The People

    Sounds like to me it is about time for a good old French style inquisition in DC….pull them out by their hair and off with their heads!

  • FreedomFighter

    Want to do more to stop commies like Shumer?

    protest outside the Marriott in Chantilly, Virginia — the time is now. Shine the light on the cockroaches.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • Patricia Castillo Mcbride

    Its the tax policy stupid! Shumer is such an idiot.

  • http://yahoo charlene

    bloomburg needs to go. i too think if i had that kind of money, i wouldnt leave itin the states, for people like bloomburg and the clown to steal.i love my county, hate the people who runs it.tell bloomburg give his up. he;s a BIG MIllons tell him to put his out there.

    • LAB

      Bloomberg that twattle! Trying to FORCE New Yawker’s into not drinking/buying any larger than 16oz sweetened drinks! WTF! Who the hell does that schmuck think he is telling people what/how and how much they can eat OR drink!!!??? GESTAPO at its finest! Howevah, I do believe the dummy’s in the beegapple deserve that dope, heck they keep voting the turd into office! UNBEFREAKINLIEVABLE


        LAB, Maybe he or his relatives have the rights over manufacturing or supplying 16 oz cups and no bigger and bottletops…lol or owns the landfills for extra bottles and cups recycling…What a waste to have to use extra plastic to make extra containers and double the bottletops when people buy more containers. Food and Drink controls…reminds me of prohabition of beer days…how silly. Which school did he go to?


        And maybe he really want the McDonalds chain to go broke too? lol

  • David Johnston

    Chip, While I agree with you that each of us is able to manage our own funds better than the government, it is still a necessity that we fund the government well enough that it doesn’t go bankrupt – and bankrupt all of us at the same time. I sent you my blog in which I spell out some good solutions to out tax and other problems; I don’t know if you have looked at it:
    In it I state that there should be no deductions (charity, mortgage interest, especially not political contributions, etc.) before taxes, but that the Flat Tax rate should NORMALLY not exceed 15%. There are additional protections for lower income people. With these rules in place, those with enough money could still give all they wanted to charities or other activities they prefer, without ever running out.
    David J.


      What do your charities do in the USA?

      Do they sell goods they get for free using volunteer staff they dont pay salaries to and have an unfair advantage over other retail stores who have to pay for their stock and must pay wages?

      Why do they need to have any tax free money ontop of the benefits they already enjoy and put undue competitive pressure on normal retail stores.

      Do the police check the source of the charity shop supplies to ensure that they are not selling stolen goods? I bet not.

      Unfortunately some charities have become big business on tax free money and seemingly charitable and church purposes. Who investigates the scams?

      Charity givers should do freely but without financial inducements like tax deductions due to the unfair advantages both the donator and the charity enjoy over normal tax paying businesses.

      • Winddrinker

        Charities in Texas are big money makers. Have a charity event, and take 90% of the money, the law requires only the remaining 10% to be given to the chosen charity! What a deal!

  • Jeff wilson

    Chuck Schumer could be the poster child for Term Limits!

  • LAB

    Leave it to Dummycrats to bitch and moan about the money…schmucky schumer and crankass casey! Well, whoop-dee-do, wah wah wah all the way home ya two little pigs

  • Thinking About

    No one should be held against their will unless serving time for their crimes. You should seek another cou try if you wish which will allow you in their country. If you decide to give up your citizenship in the USA, then again this will be your choice. Then if you decide to return to the USA then you will be like any other person and be an immigrant and the USA can decide to accept you or not. Don’t seek the assistance of our embassy to assist you while not a citizen of the USA. I don’t see what the big deal is about if we set up the rules for an ex citizen to return to the USA when there are rules for others to enter this country. I see many complaining about the illegals, then the same rules will apply to those leaving this country. If you left to remove yourself from the tax rolls, then you need to pay to get back in this country. Just like the draft dodgers, don’t expect the USA to open our arms to take care of you. I will be staying in the USA.


    Chucky Schumer is a self aggrandizing A** and proves it with each passing day. The guy Saverien obeyed the laws but Chucky being Chucky is just upset because he didn’t think of it first. Chucky the dude, thinks that because his elite mouth says something, like all Deemers it should be a edict and to hell with the Constitution, so of course we must change that pesky Constitution.
    Chucky is the exemplar of career incumbency and why the elitism it breeds is destructive to our representation, he is the ultimate gamer of this representative Republic and the reason why we need to Re-Pare this government…..

  • websmith1

    There are people in the California government who, after destroying the 8th largest economy in the world, own homes in Baha and are planing to retire there. This Senator has helped destroy the best, most successful economy in the world and flooded it with illegal and legal aliens while helping give the population’s money to the rich, and helped limit our freedom and ability to succeed economically with regulations for major corporations so he can stay in office. I have served in the military and started 7 companies that employed many Americans and generated a lot of tax revenue for him to give away. I am leaving soon because this is not the place that I was raised in. I want nothing more than freedom and a chance to succeed. I am making plans for Nigeria where I will carry a gun to defend myself and try to help the country emerge. I won’t be back

  • Sharon Jeanguenat

    I love America, but not what she’s becoming. Too many people are so ‘me first’, ‘gimme, gimme’ for things they haven’t worked for,or earned. But, America is STILL better than any other country, so far. However, IF people don’t get out & vote Obama & his henchmen out in Nov. then we will become like all the other socialist, communist, Islamic countries. But, since I can’t afford to leave these shores, I’m going to stay & fight, if I have to. I do believe with all of my heart, that, another civil war is coming to this country, & it’s going to make the first one look like a picnic. God help us all!

  • Wildey

    I agree about Saverin’s doing what he did but isn’t that basically everybody residing in DC is doing in another way? Aren’t they in DC to make their fortunes at the expense of the working people, blue collar and white collar, in America? Saverin won the lottery in a big way and people like Schumar are just plain jealous. If you haven’t caught on, Schumar is showing the power DC has over everybody. Saverin didn’t give a donation to AIPAC. That was his real crime.

  • ed vinson

    look no farther than the U.S.Congress or U.S. Senate, with their almost daily attacks on the U.S. Constitution, for treason

  • Wildey

    Watchout. It isn’t freedom you want but LIBERTY. Patrick Henry said “Give me liberty or give me death”. Freedom is a word denoting status, like serfdom. Every country in the world has some degree of freedom, but liberty? Liberty is a gift from God to all living moral lives. The only way to loose is it is to give it away. When you sense it’s being taken away, that’s the time to act.

  • http://PesonalLibertyDigest Smith

    As a Vietnam veteran survivor, I started to leave the US in 1969. This current government is trying to ruin the US by demolishing the Constitution and driving it off the economic cliff with horrendous debt which can never be repaid. The BO admin and Socialistic Marxist democratic congress,since 2007, has fractured the US financially. Thank you very much all you malignantly narcissistic federal lawmakers. OSPREY

    • nc

      Smith. as an adult do you really feel that this country was not in FINANCIAL trouble BEFORE 2007 WITH TWO WARS GOING AND THE ECONOMY ALREADY COLLAPSING?? What do you think caused the American prople to vote out so many of the other party in 2006?and 2008? Maybe they thought they were not doing a good job?They were just exercising their Constitutional duty to use their vote for the betterment of the country! SEEMS YOU HAVE BEEN DRINKING TOO MUCH FAUX NOISE KOOL AID AND NOT CHECKING THE NUMBERS OF THE bush administration!!

      • Jay

        nc says: They were just exercising their Constitutional duty to use their vote for the betterment of the country!

        Didn’t work out so well, did it, nc?

  • C. G Tayler, ND, CNC

    I’ve read part and parcel of the conversations outlined in this diatribe of opinions, so here goes my opinion. The article that originated this conversation related to expatriation from America, now known as the corporate US.

    My forefathers entered this country via who knows where! They were in part of the fierce Black Feet nation…The other part entered approximately 10 years after the Mayflower in New Hampshire AND in Jamestown somewhat later.

    My forefathers faught to destroy the greed and avarice that now directs this nation…they were successful because they had education and they had the need for self direction, freedom and a nation ruled by the people (citizens of America).

    In the meantime, humanists sneaked into our educational system and espoused their progressive (socialist-communist garbage) into the heads of young people, through the so-called “Free Education for all system.

    Today, we have heads full of un GODly junk, loss of one man, one woman marrital relationship and kids who have little to no stability in their personal lives. Entertainers have become the heroes of america’s people. And immorality in every corner encircles the REAL AMERICAN way!

    Taxes were taken care of initially by the original constitution framers of this once great nation and the IRS and all those who engage in supporting the banking system are treasonous fools who, like men of old, will learn immorality in every way of life leads to destruction…WE ARE THERE, folks!

    • nc

      CG(not sure what all of those other letters mean), is a goal of free education for all a bad goal? Which people would you exclude up front even from the effort to educate them to their attainable levels?
      Has God told you which information is unGodly junk in the heads of our young people? What did he say? Did he eliminate any of the stuff that helped our kids get us to the moon or write great novels ,poetry and prose? Become some to the best Doctors in the world! Invent stuff 90% of us can’t spell! We have many problems in our education system but we are a nation of many people and every student is a potential achiever and a trouble maker! But we don’t shoot the wounded or let people die by the curb in this country! At least some of us don’t want that to happen!
      I am so glad that I live in a country that does not have a problem of Holy one man-one women Matrimony breaking up except by the intervention of homosexuals! Holy Matrimony is on such safe grounds that over 25% of our children live with just one parent or no parents and that is from a 2004 study! Don’t know what it is today but I would almost bet it hasn’t shrunk in the last 8 years! WHERE ARE “THE NO MORE DIVORCES” TEA PARTYERS OUT TO SAVE HOLY MATRIMONY? OUT BASHING GAYS NO DOUBT!!
      You say this country is at the point of destruction! Do you have any idea how many times Americans have been told that by other disgrunteled Americans like you?? Thousands and thousands! How many times have we collapsed completely! NADA-NONE AND WE AIN’T GOING DOWN NOW! FEAR IS NOT SOMETHING THAT RUNS AMERICANS INDOORS! WE JUST VOTE DEMOCRAT AND THINGS GET BETTER!!SEE “BULLS, BEARS,DONKEYS AND ELEPHANTS” AS TO HOW GOOD THE ECOOMY DOES UNDER THE DEMOCRATS! WALL STREET LOVES THE DEMOCRATS AND THAT CHART SHOWS JUST WHY!! READ IT AND SEE THE LIGHT!!

      • C. G Tayler, ND, CNC

        Dear NC: Well, what can I say, appears I pulled Your Progressive Chain a bit too vigorously! At least You had enough progressive theory in Your sweet little head to prove my point exactly…Think, Think, Think…You may yet become an enlightened being.

        I am not a disenfrancized American but rather tired of historically uneducated people attempting to sound like enlightened free thinking individualistic early Americans…You must be a product of the educational system about which I spoke.

    • Jay

      nc says: CG(not sure what all of those other letters mean), is a goal of free education for all a bad goal?

      Free education? There is no such thing as free, anything, nc! Somebody has to pay for it. And buy the nature of your question, i think its safe to assume that that somebody is not you! Oh oh, i think nc has just shown us his true colours! Back to the bong, welfare boy!

  • Tim

    I begrudge no one attempting to keep as much of their own money as possible. Schumer is a scum-of-the-earth fascist, who has spent his entire pathetic life in politics, wallowing in self-aggrandizing power and gorging himself via the public trough. If he had his way, we’d look like N. Korea.

    I’d trade him for Saverin any day!

  • racefish

    Ity figures that a couple of millionairs who want to make their millions then demonize others who do the same would come up with this crap. It makes no difference what the amount is, but just from the intent, it is clearly unconstitutional.
    The best thing to do would be to get rid of the current tax system and use the Fair Tax or a flat tax. We have to have something the politicians, and especially these two, can’t play with. The presemnt system lends itself to being nothing but a bludgeon to beat the masses into compliance with the over-bearing federal government. Along with that, we need term limits. If that were in place, these blood suckers would have been gone long ago.

  • dcjdavis

    It’d be nice to be able to afford to flee.

  • Native Rose


  • DaveH

    That was outlawed by a Federal Rule many years ago, Jukebox.
    See here:

  • Alberto Sierra

    Socrates of Athens was faced with a very similar decision over 2000 years ago, but it wasn’t about taxation, it was about not being executed by the state. He had the option to flee Athens and live in exile for the remainder of his life. He reasoned that the state had provided for his education, and protection in a similar way that parents provide for their children. Therefore to flee Athens would be akin to turning your back on your parents after they have raised and provided for you. His loyalty to Athens was until death (literally since he was executed). I cannot say whether Saverin has committed some ethical or philosophical wrong, but I can say that the mentality that “the state comes first” has greatly diminished due to globalization.

  • Neil Swan

    Whats wrong about millionairs and billionairs paying their fair share of taxes like the middle class does.
    The owner of the LA Dogers made 20 million a year for 5 years in a row and didn’t pay a dime of Federal or State income tax in the 5 years.


    • GALT

      The “middle class” did not actually exist until 1935 -1945, and it was purely by accident…

      This mistake is and has been in the process of being corrected, since 1980.

  • Awakened

    There are so many intelligent bloggers on PLD who’s names I see all the time. I would like to know your thought on how we fix all these horrible revelations that are surfacing more and more. I know being informed and prepared is important….what else do you suggest.

    • nc

      Awakened, if you see a “horrible revelation” here go elsewhere to research it! You may just find that the ‘revelation’ is just the product of a single paranoid or otherwise disturbed mind and not an issue with anyone else! Seriously, look elsewhere for conformation of any revelation you see here for the first time! There are a lot of very small cults that have very strange and unsubstanuated beliefs about “THREATS’ to our country! “Conspiracies” that have never been proved! Some even decades old! Plans to take over the world using everything from condums to fluoride! RESEARCH! Other sources!!! Sitting next to the volcano is not always the BEST PLACE to gather LASTING KNOWLEDGE about them!

      • DaveH

        Sorry, NC, but he did say “intelligent”. You’re on the wrong thread.

      • ….

        DaveH, Intelligence is measured by the way you process information and reach the correct conclusion. I know some very smart people who are stuck in some basement level job for their whole “career” at $50,000.00 a year.

      • DaveH

        Obviously you haven’t read many of NC’s comments.

      • Michael J.

        Your parents probably used flouride, to bad they did not think about condoms.
        nc=no clue

      • Jay

        nc says: Sitting next to the volcano is not always the BEST PLACE to gather LASTING KNOWLEDGE about them!

        I beg to differ, nc, and so would people who have lived next to active volcanos! Are you always this stupid, or are you just having a better day then normal?

    • Michael J.

      Many of us feel we already have the solutions, it’s the implementation that we have a problem with. Keep reading, whenever you feel froggy, jump in.

      • ….

        If you have the solution and don’t know how to implement it you have no solution.

      • nc

        Michael J., —-says: just took you out of the park! Do you have a second pitch!!

      • Michael J.

        The implementation of solutions is being blocked by Socialist and Libtards like you two. Get out of the way and we will fix things the way Americans always have.

  • frethand101

    I’ve been planning,preparing & saving my hard earned money to live overseas for almost 5yrs now,but not so much for the reasons I see everyone here bickering about..After years of discovering the same conclusion that there’s no real promising opprotunities here for me personally,I finally decided that my personal potential for success might not neccesarily be restricted within the boarders of the country I was born in..Turns out that for me this theory was in fact true & with the aid of the internet & some soul searching I was able to find not only happiness but my soulmate as well…Traditionally,we’re programmed to think that people have only been willing to sacrifice everything to achieve their own personal success here in America but that doesn’t mean that it’s never worked both ways regarding people who might need to leave America in order to do the same..

    Just Sayin..

  • jeanette

    My husband and I will be moving to a gorgeous part of Chile, where we can live extremely comfortably for less than we pay just for health insurance here. Food without the poison; uncrowded conditions; no requirement to support tens of millions of illegal aliens. And, oh, yes … we won’t be denied medical care by some “panel” there, either.

  • Your Globalist Friend

    Soon, the only way to escape the elite, will be the extinction of you worthless eaters.

    • cawmun cents

      Doomed by his own words.
      Hmmmm.We have a brave soul out there.Interesting.

  • Jake Goode

    I currently live and work in China for a Chinese company in a small industrial town in the north. I moved 6 months ago after finishing law school in the USA because there were no good opportunities for me back home. The work I do here is great, much more interesting than I could have ever hoped for in the US, and I make about the same as I did back home. However, I am able to save much more, as transportation and housing is much cheaper. Before I left, I thought my plan would be to get some experience here and transfer to a US-based company. But I’ve since realized that there are many ways to have a ‘good life’ besides moving back. I think I can make more money and have a better career outside of the US! It is no longer necessary to think of America as the center of the economic world.
    But this is also sad. I would not have moved had I been able to find a good job that let me save enough money to get ahead. Moving abroad comes at a personal cost and it isn’t all glamour, even if you life in a tropical paradaise. I have friends back home for whom life hasn’t changed at all in the past six months, while I feel like I’ve moved forward in leaps and bounds. If I could have found that dynamism in the US, I would have seriously thought twice before uprooting my entire life. But all I saw was stagnation and penny scraping, and this has always been enough to get people to move across the ocean.

    • ….

      Jake Goode: Congratulations! Now let’s see what happens when you criticize the government. If you can do it great. I’d like to hear the opinions of the posters on this site if they lived in China for a year.
      I did have a problem with your comments about the job market here. Of course the job market is tighter now than it has been in years. But not for everyone. Connections,connections, connections.
      I also hear a lot of disparagement of the “elites”on this site. Isn’t that actually the goal in america? I retired at 50 and my income is from capital gains. I wouldn’t change a thing – Other folks, well, I wish things were better for them.

      • COLO!

        Lived in China , the year 2010, they are becoming more free and having more money, they don’t use credit and they know how to save. You can live on very little in China and be able to save. We see many opportunities there.
        When we couldn’t find jobs to feed our family, yes we left.


      Well done Jake, You have been adventurous enough to venture outside your home sphere and probably now realise that the world no longer has borders which keep people out but rather the governments of the people use borders to keep people in by peddling fear of the unknown, the baddys, the reds, the commos, the socialists and the list goes on, designed to justify the vast military budget allocations instead of moderation and more diplomacy

      While the people of America continue to fear the commos, the red, the greens, the socialists, the cubans, the mexicans……the People of China continue to expand, and develope, buying raw materials andmanufacturing almost everything even houses for export, investing abroad without fear of the unknown and creating jobs for themselves and people like you Jake,.

      When people like you start to look outside the square borders of the USA and Australia …then you will start to see the politicians starting to listen to Dr Ron Paul. Trading with the world is the way forward…NOT agression and the political play acting for the benefit of an ignorant voter public. .

    • Joe Brooks

      Here is why you are finding “Dynamism”. The Commies are practicing the single most massive protectionism of their economy in the history of the world, while promoting economy and manufacturing destroying free trade for everyone else. They want everyone dependent on them, as much as possible.

      Of course you will not find any US type Constitutional freedoms. Try not to get imprisoned with a word or two the CCP does not like.

      “Chinese impose high tariffs on imports in order to protect their home market. For example, a Detroit-made Jeep Grand Cherokee sells for $27,490 in the U.S., but $85,000 in China.”


        Yes and so the Chinese are doing what your country and Australia should be doing to protect all their manufactuers…whats wrong with that? The USA wont accept Australian beef and many other products to protect your farmers. Where is there any difference? Our countries do it to keep our wages inflation lower and it works.

        Lets not talk about massacres…the waco compound? How where those and many other groups massacred in various States annouying your police state members? Why was it essential to storm those groups knowing the likely outcome? I wont mention all the other innocent people killed in wars because cant blame your military for all those situations when in a true state of war. So how is China different? Please explain.

  • jill savino

    My husband and I left at age 67 or a Unisco World Heritage site in Mexico, San Miguel de Allende. Here most of the ex-pats are our age, all the charitable organizations (120 of them) are run by people our age, and we love the weather, the affordable food which is beyond delicious. Mangos are picked off the trees and are .40 each, tomatoes are home grown and delivered to our doorstep by burro and are .80 per kilo, making that .40 a pound, the watermelons and cantaloupes sell for under a dollar and I have never tasted anything so good. Oranges are .50 a Kilo……..We have more friends here than we ever had in the states and our house cost 1/2 what it cost us in the states, and is nicer also. The only regret we have is that we didn’t leave sooner!

    • ….

      What happens when a drug lord decides to have some fun with you?

  • rkz777

    This is what socialism / communism is all about. Start getting use to it, for this is what the thugs in the white house are all about. And when this muslim-socialist-communist-marxist-thug gets “Placed” back into the white house in November the wall will go up around FREEDOM. You haven’t seen anything yet! You people that voted for and swoon over this maggot are going to reap your reward, and what a reward it will be, oh yea! The only problem is the GOOD Americans, that is the only real Americans left will have to fight for their FREEDOM, for we will not bend our knee to this (EXPLETIVE DELETED). No I will not leave my country, these punks will leave.

    • realman

      you so stoopid

  • ex-pat

    Eduardo Saverin left for Argentina. What, Israel was not good enough for him? I guess no place will be good enough.

  • needfulthings

    Eduardo is just do’n what ANY CAPITALIST would do ” Maximise Profits” !!!!! Conservatives like to talk smack about “UNFETTERED CAPITALISM” Well thats what happened in the 1930′s and again in 1980 with ronnie star wars ray gun thru dubya in 2008… NO RULES , Just Profit …. injoy MO-FRO’S……

  • Robert

    After visiying Costa Rica in 2006, about 1 month after retiring, I seriously concidered moving there. There were several reasons, Lower cost of living , wonderfuly friendly people, great climate and beautiful scenery, among them.
    But my wife’s health was not good and the health care here was much better and more readily avalible. If Obamacare had been passed and fully implemented at that time, the last hinderence to my moving would have been removed and I would now be living there.
    I hope this is the type of responce you were looking for. Robert

    • realman

      Why don’t you move now and save us the cost of expensive end of life care? You and the wife are both now in the zone and your new friends can pay for all your medical bills that you’re going to run up.


      With all due respect to you Robert, but how would have Obamacare or Romneycare have decreased the availability of good healthcare for your ill wife?

  • Mike

    I love the idealic America of the 1950′s, the one my grandparents knew. I absolutely hate the America of today, the America I was born, raised and still reside in. If I had the money I would leave immediately for Eastern Europe (Non- EU east europe) and never comeback. You can keep your pro-homosexual, anti-white America that has hated me and declared legislative war on me since I was born. The only thing America has going for it at all is we speak english over here.
    I wouldn’t want my kids growing up here in a country that hates them for being white or seeing the absolute spineless defeatist attitudes of my people here. Some things are more important than money.

    • …..

      why don’t you just pick up and go. it’s that easy. then you can let us all know how superior your new home is. it gets boring with all of you fat old white men sitting around in bathrobes and whining about this country. when you leave that would mean I won’t have to work to pay for your massive socialistic medicare plan. have fun paying for it yourself over there. Finally, you think you can get away from gay people and all the other complaints on your list? surprise- it’s the modern world. go fat loser.

      • cawmun cents

        Can you smell that?
        Smells like fried Troll…..


      Mike, i think you need to go on a long holiday to one of the other places you think you will be better going to retire, but just look at the recent history of the Greeks migrating to Australia in the 1960′s making their money not all by hard work, and then going back to Greece to retire in luxury they though. How long did that last? Now they want to desert Greece and their debts and move back to Australia under the guise of us needing more Taxi drivers. The British moved to Spain and France to retire the idyllic lifestyle, but how long did that last? Now they pulling their money out of the banks. The reality is there is nowhere to go and hide or retire anymore.

      Hate to remind you and others complaining, but America is today what its people made it become, but its not all bad really but we have all contributed to this relative mess and we should all stay and help fix it.

      It might not be the perfect place for you but if you can learn to MYOB about the way other choose to live their lives, life is still pretty good in USA. If you dont like your State, look for another, you have plenty to choose before you consider tell everyone you want to desert your homeland. We can all understand you frustations but your not hungry if you can afford the internet or mobile phone to contribute to this forum.

  • Tom

    None of this is really all that surprising. I believe that if the two democrat senators were to actually “Look” at the reasons behind people leaving the USA rather than getting mad and spiteful about it, they might actually learn something, providing they wanted to be honest. I believe they would find that the primary causes of people leaving the USA and giving up their US Citizenship has far more to do with high unfair taxation, zero representation, political arrogance and hostility against the actual citizens with preferential treatment and consideration for foreign powers (including islam and illegal aliens), an increasingly hostile economic and jobs creation business environment and increased socialism/fascism under the rogue largely criminal regime of a tyrannical islamo-fascist illegal alien criminal despot. I personally know of no one who would willingly remain under the heavy yoke of such tyranny if given the choice of leaving, maintaining any semblance of the means for a much better life and opportunities for themselves and their families and the means to escape the tyrant criminal-illegal alien-in-chief and his cronies and their ungodly evil unconstitutional agendas. If these two democrat senators really wish to lower the number of people fleeing the USA, then they should probably turn their attention to removal of the despot illegal alien at the top, his entire criminal rogue regime, throwing out the criminal unconstitutional laws, acts, appointments and agendas en toto put in place under obama’s regime, lock up the criminals in office, put an absolute end to islamic and non-US law in US courts, throw out the UN and Hillary Clinton with them if she is so determined to support the UN effort to subvert and undermine our laws, US Constitution and way of life, and shrink government and federal power drastically to about 8% of current levels (forevcer).

    • old hillbilly

      was thinking about writing something pertinent, read this one & …. you said it, why repeat it… good nuf said… better that I could have said.


  • http://Nygren Barbro

    This is a page taken from the Socialist countries playbook in Europe.They did the same in my country after they realized the so called tax base was gone and the money with them.All the dems in DC are commies and or socialists and the Resident himself is a Marxist

    • Democratic patriot

      What country are you from? Haiti, Somalia, Nigeria? Some poor country where all the smucks accept object poverty, while the rich and elite of those countries live outside the sphere of poverty. You wouldn’t know a commie (50′s lingo), socialist or marxist if they jumped up and bit you on the arse.

      • nc

        Democratic patriot, these sheeple know only who Faux Noise tells them is a “commie” “socialist” or “Marxist”! I just saw a poll that showed that the people who watched Faux Noise were the least informed people interviewed in the poll! This site has to be in second place!! Actually, they are in first place here for unproved conspiracies to take over our country and the promising of impending doom!

      • Jay

        nc says: I just saw a poll that showed that the people who watched Faux Noise were the least informed people interviewed in the poll!

        What poll? Can you provide a link where we can study this, mysterious poll, or would you prefer we just take your word for it? And, if what you say is true, why in the world would you want to hang around with the uninformed?

        nc says: This site has to be in second place!! Actually, they are in first place here for unproved conspiracies to take over our country and the promising of impending doom!

        Don’t look now, nc, but your pants are on fire.


    Chip, just one comment regarding your statement of “The Obama’s substantial gifts to charity”. Horse hockey! There was an article comparing the charitable donations of the Obama’s (both Michelle & Barack) v the Romney’s (Anne & Mitt) using the public records – Tax returns (obtained via FOIA) The Obama’s “substantial” donations were a few hundred against the Romney’s tens of thousands. The only “Substantial” donations the Obama’s have have given were TAXPAYER dollars to themselves, unions, & cronies!

  • Talafofotom1

    The choice of when where and how I spend my money is mine. Not Schummer’s or the ike the assinine demo model has driven people to offshore facilities to save what they can.Besides how do you stop anyone from entering the US? Obama policy? An Obama lecture?If those asse in the congress would use OUR resources instead of “saving them” for what I might add we’d have NO DEFICIT. but instaed you ruin industries and they move in droves-I’d leave the country too if I were faced with Millions in taxes or I could play Buffett 3 card Monty with a doz lawyers like Obama “s buddy does acts outraged yet pays nothing in the long and short run.

  • alexa

    does anyone ever read these comments?

  • TIME

    To you folks in New York, why is it you keep electing old Chuckie?

    Is it his special reports to you via – the ” totaly CONtrolled” – “mass media” where he tells you what you want to hear weekly?

    Or is it that no one on the people farm has any control over any VOTE of any kind?

    Don’t you ever ask who it is that places your states reps in power if thousands and thousands of people you speak with have never voted for these people?

    Peace and Love

  • Mad Max

    The ones leaving are just cowards. I call them sunshine patriots. Who needs them?

    We never get anywhere in this country because we think too small when our problem are huge. Until we address the real problems we can forget about education, healthcare and everything else that’s wrong with this country.


    U.S. Citizens
    Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( )

    Non U.S. Citizens
    Read “Common Sense 3.2” at ( )

    • Jaesun

      What is the “CAUSE”?

      • Richard

        It is us!

  • Richard

    Just as our founders left their country for better times the future founders of an “elsewhere” are leaving theirs. So my salute is to those with the courage and the means to say “I’ve had enough”.

  • sorelydisappointedinamericans

    Katrel said it best but only scratched the surface with her bit on “what’s in the water?”
    Zbigniew Brzezinski – Kissinger’s pal – summarized it eloquently: “It used to be easier to control a million people than to kill a million people. Now its easier to kill a million people than to control a million people.” Utilizing food, water, drugs (the ads today talk more about side effects, death, paralysis and crippling diseases from the drugs than about helping folks) and those healthy folks earning in today’s society get cocktailed up a few times a week or buy their grass, coke – name it – America is like China when the Brits encouraged opium – a drugged, doped, drunk Date-Raped population allowing bankers and politicians to take every home and square inch of open space, economic benefit and tax they can get their hands on. The best reason to leave the U.S. – love it as I do – is that Americans are – nearly all of them – either uneducated, ill-informed and those that know what’s going on are apathetic and unable to organize the rest. The conservatives hate the liberals, Yankee fans want to beat up Red Sox fans and we are so cocky, arrogant and spoiled we think fighting among ourselves over petty differences of hair style or skin color is ok – when we should be working together fighting the virtual take-over (no bullets required) of our Constitution, Laws, Banks, Homes, Corporations – name it – we don’t own squat anymore.

    The best reason to leave America is that its a losing game – sort of like trying to rescue a damsel in distress in a burning house and before she leaves she wants to grab her pink Nikes, take another rip off the bong and pour herself a hot toddy so she won’t freeze on the sidewalk waiting for someone else to grab a hose to put out the fire. Its a date-raped nation of spoiled, drugged up, apathetic brats from the lowest of the impoverished through the rapidly shrinking middle class and boy oh boy, have the new rich found out the hard way that their old mansions in NH, CN, CA or elsewhere were sure a lot more comfortable than the VW van they live in now with their family (probably healthier in their new lifestyle going to gyms for showers).

    My first visit here – first article I read – and I see you folks squabbling over the same old issues – liberals – conservatives – blame each other while the real truth of the matter is that foreign interests have wanted to take down the U.S. since the hollow victory of the American Revolution, which was subsequently turned into victory for England with the Paris Peace Treaty. Eisenhower warned us – Kennedy warned us – Jefferson warned us – Washington warned us – and we were too stoned to pay attention or too hedonistic to care even if we knew the truth and too trusting in govt. to believe that:

    1. The accents of the hijackers heard in the background of Betty Ong’s phone – the flight attendant who made contact with the ground during 911 – were Israeli – not Muslims. Its on tape / MP3 – listen to the entire conversation.

    2. The loading dock clerk at the Pentagon said he watched a jet fly off in the opposite direction after the explosion – its on video – look it up.

    3. Building 7 collapsed – yet was never hit by anything.

    4. A group of Israeli’s were interviewed by Police in NJ right across the river as the towers fell. Their crime was simply high fives and laughing their bacon off.

    5. The hole in PN after flight 93 crashed appears in a USGS overhead photo from the early 1990s. Its on video – look it up.

    6. 50 plus NY Firemen swear the buildings were detonating – bombs etc. Sad, but I believe them more than the feds who buried or sunk all the evidence from the site. Its on video – look it up.

    7. The man who managed them said – on video – “pull the plug” and a few minutes later the buildings collapsed.

    I could go on – but why bother? Even if you knew the govt and bankers were behind it all to bankrupt the nation by getting us into a silly never ending war chasing silly “terrorists” in the middle of nowhere, and even if Bush flat out told everyone he knew it was coming – planned – just as we knew Pearl Harbor and the Lusitania would drag us into an expensive war – as we entered the Vietnam war over similar “contrived” circumstances – even if you knew D.C. politics was about as real as a TV wrestling match – would you unite and stand side by side with long hairs, short hairs conservatives, liberals and all the other “wierdos” and “freaks” and “rednecks” and “city slickers” in your community?

    I think not. You’d rather let foreigners (banks) control you through a series of inflationary and deflationary periods until “your children wake up homeless in the nation your fathers conquered.” – Jefferson – look it up.

    Until American citizens wake up from the drugs, put down the bongs and bottles of beer, drink good water and eat good food, you’ll never be free again and at the rate the jaws of the foreign bankers are closing, its unlikely you’ll be free again even if you do wake up. Its too late boys and girls. The wire taps and cameras are everywhere, the feds will squish you if you get out of line and this show is being brought to you by the same folks who took out Lincoln and Kennedy when they had “other ideas”.

    Don’t blame Obama. Imagine his surprise when he takes the job and finds out if he screws the bankers they might miss him and hit one of his family members. Don’t blame Bush – his family has been making millions off war and Nazis and oil for generations. Don’t blame the Rockefeller family or the Rothchilds – or any one else.

    …because if you’re too angry and arrogant and want to blame a Muslim, Jew, Commie, Atheist, Liberal or Conservative instead of looking in the mirror and learning to accept everyone – ignore their differences – and form an effective team anyway – if you can’t do that, then you deserve to be a slave.

    And if you understand all of this then naturally you want to get the heck outta Dodge since its unlikely anything in the U.S. is getting better any time soon.

    Forget the tax incentives or penalties for leaving: that’s sort of like being in prison and someone asking if you want to get out so you can save money. Duh….

  • CaliRay

    I left the U.S. in 2008 when I could see with certainty that Obama would win the presidency and this would result in a rapid deterioration in U.S. culture, society, and financial stability.

    As a retired person on a fixed, limited income, it is impossible for me to live in the U.S. as I do here in Colombia. My move was about 90% based on my economic prospects.

    Here, I enjoy a wonderful climate; a wide variety of plentiful, cheap foods, highly competent and cheap medical care, and finally a society that is remarkably free compared to the current situation in the U.S.

    While I miss the frequent personal contact with my family and friends in the U.S., I don’t regret for a minute making the move.


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