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The Year 2012: A Turning Point

August 18, 2011 by  

The Year 2012: A Turning Point

The global economy is facing one of its most challenging tests today. Structural problems are obvious, everywhere we look. European States and the United States of America are dealing with serious and growing debt problems. And despite the recent debt deal in the U.S., the agreed-upon spending cuts will do very little to restore financial stability.

Not only are the agreed-upon spending cuts too little too late, the timing of these spending cuts is of concern. At a time when private households are in the process of de-leveraging and businesses are not willing to make investments, a significant cutback of government spending will significantly increase the chances of a recession in coming months. For many people in Europe and the U.S., today’s sluggish economy already feels like a recession. And when we look beyond the official statistics, economic growth is already stagnant or even negative.

After a small recovery last year, jobless rates are already on the rise and will likely climb higher in coming months. There is just not enough economic activity to create jobs, and a growing number of people have pretty much given up looking for jobs. The likely response from central banks will be more stimulus programs, but it is unlikely to change much. The coming year 2012 is a true election super year. Several major countries will hold elections; and with the global economic outlook turning increasingly negative, we could see some huge changes next year. In total, countries holding elections next year make up almost 50 percent of world gross domestic product (!!).

The stimulus packages introduced by many Western countries in the past two years have all failed to revive economic growth because most of these measures look to create liquidity and reduce the cost of borrowing by lowering interest rates. However, most of these measures can’t solve the main problems such as the huge debt dilemma.

In the past two decades, the common response of governments and central banks has been to introduce tax cuts and reduce interest rates temporarily. The problem is that all of these measures can only help to smooth smaller fluctuations in economic activity. Now, most major governments have accumulated such a huge amount of debt that they are not able to add (and finance) stimulus anymore; the market just won’t tolerate it any longer. Lower rates alone are not helping to solve structural problems; in fact, they might even make things worse and create asset bubbles.

The general uncertainty and the lack of visibility directly result in lower economic activity by depressing consumption and investment. Less consumption, lower investment spending and a reduction of government spending will likely result in a recession. This is true for the U.S. and most parts of Europe today. The fact that exports are on the rise in these economies, primarily because of the falling values of the U.S. dollar and the euro, will do very little to improve the situation.

It is possible for a country to create and sustain economic growth which is primarily driven by exports (for example, China), but neither Europe nor the United States is positioned to benefit enough from exports. So there is a growing risk that the West will yet again fall into a recession going into 2012 and the likely increase in jobless rates, the forced reduction of government spending (especially reduction in social benefits) and growing uncertainty about the future political and economic outlook have the potential to make 2012 a real turning point. I think the chances that we see rather large changes in next year’s election are significant.

With these changes it is also very likely that for the first time in a long time, we are starting to see the influence of governments being reduced. The past few decades have seen an almost never-ending increase of government spending, especially in the area of social security and welfare. I think that some of this spending had good intentions, but now it becomes increasingly hard to finance it. With the huge number of baby boomers that have recently started to retire (and many more will be following incoming years), there will be fewer and fewer young people that can finance government spending.

The growing scarcity of labor in Western countries might help to bring down unemployment somewhat, but the problem is that we are dealing with high levels of structural unemployment and it will be hard to reduce that. Structural unemployment refers to people who have either dropped out of the workforce or young people who have never really entered the workforce. Many of them have no prospects for a better life in the future, and this is adding to social tensions and has the potential to cause social conflicts. The riots seen in London last week were primarily caused by young people, many of them unemployed and without any hope that things will get better for them. This is not only the case in London, but for many major cities in the West. These riots could also take place in New York, Paris, Los Angeles, Madrid and many more.

These problems will intensify in coming years. The enormous amount of outstanding debt, the aging of Western societies and structural changes in the economy will be a huge burden for younger generations. With a growing number of people retiring and more and more people living off some kind of governmental help, it will become impossible to continue to fund the current social systems in the West. To make things even worse, many people in the West are not willing to work beyond a certain age. Just think of countries like France when most people retire between the ages of 58 and 62. But since life expectancy has increased dramatically in the past 50 years, people would need to work until the age 70, at least.

The current economic situation gives a lot of conflict potential for the coming years and will most likely result in significant changes on the political level. Governments have no other choice than to downsize and get leaner. It also means governments will be able to afford only smaller financial aid for its people. The common response in the past couple of decades has been the exact opposite. However, this was done under the assumptions of only minor changes in demographics — a huge mistake, as we know today.

What we will see in the West in the coming decade is a breakdown of the welfare state as we know it. With that will come some huge changes, both politically and economically. This will be a real stress test for every nation in the West, because the problems are very similar. These changes will not come smoothly. They will most likely create enormous tensions among societies and also create conflicts between the different generations. Too many young people are without jobs and without hope today. And many older people will be frustrated because the governments is not able to provide them with the kind of benefits they were promised. The uncertainty created by this will not be good for the economy, since people will be reluctant to spend and invest in such a climate.

So in my view, we are already in the middle of the first phase of the adjustments, and the current political fight about social welfare spending is a clear sign. But eventually, we have to face economic reality that in the long run we can afford only what we can finance. It would be the logical consequence to see strong shifts within the political landscape next year, and I think the chances for it are increasing rapidly. The year 2012 could be a real turning point for many Western countries.

–Daniel Zurbrügg

Daniel Zurbrügg

is the Managing Partner of Alpine Atlantic Global Asset Management, a Swiss-based independent investment management firm. The firm provides clients with independent investment management, asset protection and family office services and is the issuer of the global investment newsletter Echo From The Alps. With a global network of partners, Alpine Atlantic's aim is to provide clients with true "turnkey" solutions for global investing. Prior to setting up Alpine Atlantic, Daniel held various positions with other banks and financial companies. Daniel is a Chartered Financial Analyst and regular guest speaker at international investment conferences.

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  • s c

    Daniel, 2012 is much more than a turning point. We have a poser in the White House who is close to being a reincarnation of FDR. The more I learn about FDR, the worse it gets. FDR was constantly re-inventing himself, and he wasn’t above reversing his ‘bedrock principles’ if he could use it to his advantage.
    The current poser doesn’t seem to have much of a past. He has used techniques that come straight from FDR’s approach to politics. That is, FDR never hesitated to ignore the Constitution, he told America that government shouldn’t be in bed with unions (only to reverse himself later), he acted as though America’s wealth was his own personal plaything and he had the anti-American, paranoid arrogance to think that he could do what he wanted because he was in the White House.
    There are WAY too many parallels shared by FDR and this prez. I don’t believe in reincarnation, but the behavior of this prez makes me wonder.
    FDR died and left many questions unanswered. To this date, many of his papers are too “hush-hush” for our mortal eyes. Americans have the right to know everything about FDR. And, we deserve to know MUCH more about the current prez. What does HE have to hide from the American people?

    • slapjack

      Didn’t FDR create the CCC Civilian Conservation Corp.? What a novel idea for the Welfare recipients in this country. No excuses for not showing up for work folks. No work No check. Clean up the Ghettos so hard working tax payers don’t have to pay for the mess you make.

      • bob

        I AGREE WITH THIS COMMENT 100%. WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT WANT A WELFARE COUNTRY. INSTEAD OF LOOKING FOR A JOB START LOOKING FO WORK.

        • Peoples Rights

          These problems will intensify in coming years.

          Great article, something I can learn from.

          Im 100% sure, we don’t have an election in November 2011, it will either be delayed at least 3 months or no election at all as was said during the interview in 2008.

          The Patriot Act, Martial law and the delay of the Nov. 2011 election were designed in 2008, but with the intent to be used for the year 2012 or in the fall of 2011 if there is a war between Israel and Iran/Syria.

          Just like Egypt after the revolution, they refuse to give an election in September 2011, and said they won’t let international observers come in to witness the election.

          Suleiman is now in charge although they don’t have an elected leader, and he was put in by you know who!?!?!

      • ValDM

        FDR wasn’t the only one to use people in that fashion. In the very late 70′s & early 80′s There were camps all over the Pacific NW (maybe other areas as well) known as the Youth Conservation Corps, which quickly degenerated to Youth Concentration Camp. The ones I know of were “interned” in camps on National Forest land, supposedly to replant fire-ravaged forests……..didn’t last long.

      • jibbs

        Well said, put shovels, rakes and other hand tools in their hands from 7am to 4:30pm with a 15 min. break and 30 min. for lunch,….. bring your OWN lunch!

      • moonbeam

        Not just the ghettos, my friend. Don’t forget about the TRAILER PARKS. They need cleaned out too.

    • eddie47d

      I see SC is full of self righteous bluster without any solutions as per usual. George Bush was a poser also and constantly reinventing himself. Remember how he got elected in promising there would be “No Nation Building” in foreign wars yet helped to create much nation building.He should have concentrated on building our nation instead of searching for other countries to finance.

      • Kate8

        eddie, eddie. Can’t you do better than “Bush, Bush, Bush”?

        Bush is no longer in office. Anyway, it doesn’t matter WHAT Bush did. All that matters now is what OBAMA is doing.

        All of the misdeeds of Bush don’t excuse Obama. He’s so much more destructive than Bush could have thought of being.

        And Bush’s history was an open book. He even had a BC.

        • Kate8

          BTW, eddie, that reminds me.

          Remember when people went nuts because Bush was found to be a member of Skull and Bones in college?

          And yet, much, much worse is being uncovered about Obama (in spite of his great effort to keep his life hidden), and you guys give him a total pass.

          Amazing.

          • eddie47d

            Give it a break Kate 8. Yesterday someone kept bringing up FDR. Now he has been dead since 1944 I believe. So Bush may indeed be part of the problem or FDR or even Reagan. Looks like you are the one trying to bury history if it doesn’t suit your way of thinking. Do you lash out at Dave H. for constantly bringing up Abraham Lincoln? I think not!

    • Think about it

      This is something from another post, i found it to be very interesting.
      People, I dont know if this is fact but I am going to pass it onto all of you. If you know this isnt real or fact let everyone know.

      OMG Do you realize who would be President?

      If you haven’t already heard – the case of Obama being a citizen – or not – has reached the Supreme Court of the United States on Tuesday 7/26/2011. If you believe he is a citizen, then you will most likely delete this. If you suspect he is not a citizen, then this will please you and so many others. It is finally going to come to a head as it can go no further than this court.

      VERY QUIETLY OBAMA’S CITIZENSHIP CASE REACHES THE SUPREME COURT

      AP – WASHINGTON D.C. –
      In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama’s qualifications for the presidency, the group “Americans for Freedom of Information” has Released copies of President Obama’s college transcripts from Occidental College … Released today, the transcript school indicates that Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate. The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of California.. The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, for the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship.
      This document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obama’s detractors have been seeking. Along with the evidence that he was first born in Kenya and there is no record of him ever applying for US citizenship, this is looking pretty grim. The news has created a firestorm at the White House as the release casts increasing doubt about Obama’s legitimacy and qualification to serve as President article titled, “Obama Eligibility Questioned,” leading some to speculate that the story may overshadow economic issues on Obama’s first official visit to the U.K. In a related matter, under growing pressure from several groups, Justice Antonin Scalia announced that the Supreme Court agreed on Tuesday to hear arguments concerning Obama’s legal eligibility to serve as President in a case brought by Leo Donofrio of New Jersey . This lawsuit claims Obama’s dual citizenship disqualified him from serving as president.. Donofrio’s case is just one of 18 suits brought by citizens demanding proof of Obama’s citizenship or qualification to serve as president.

      Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation has released the results of their investigation of Obama’s campaign spending. This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $950,000 in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states for legal resources to block disclosure of any of his personal records. Mr. Kreep indicated that the investigation is still ongoing but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. Attorney general, Eric Holder. Mr. Holder has refused to comment on the matter….

      LET OTHER FOLKS KNOW THIS NEWS, THE MEDIA WON’T !

      Subject: RE: Issue of Passport?

      While I’ve little interest in getting in the middle of the Obama birth issue, Paul Hollrah over at FSM did so yesterday and believes the issue can be resolved by Obama answering one simple question: What passport did he use when he was shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi ?

      So how did a young man who arrived in New York in early June 1981, without the price of a hotel room in his pocket, suddenly come up with the price of a round-the-world trip just a month later?

      And once he was on a plane, shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi , what passport was he offering when he passed through Customs and Immigration?

      The American people not only deserve to have answers to these questions, they must have answers. It makes the debate over Obama’s citizenship a rather short and simple one.

      Q: Did he travel to Pakistan in 1981, at age 20?
      A : Yes, by his own admission.

      Q: What passport did he travel under?
      A: There are only three possibilities.
      1) He traveled with a U.S. . … Passport,
      2) He traveled with a British passport, or
      3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport.

      Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?
      A: No. It is not possible. Pakistan was on the U.S. … State Department’s “no travel” list in 1981.

      Conclusion: When Obama went to Pakistan in 1981 he was traveling either with a British passport or an Indonesian passport.

      If he were traveling with a British passport that would provide proof that he was born in Kenya on August 4, 1961, not in Hawaii as he claims.. And if he were traveling with an Indonesian passport that would tend to prove that he relinquished whatever previous citizenship he held, British or American, prior to being adopted by his Indonesian step-father in 1967.

      Whatever the truth of the matter, the American people need to know how he managed to become a “natural born” American citizen between 1981 and 2008.

      Given the destructive nature of his plans for America, as illustrated by his speech before Congress and the disastrous spending plan he has presented to Congress, the sooner we learn the truth of all this, the better.

      If you Don’t care that Your President is not a natural born Citizen and in Violation of the Constitution, then Delete this, and then lower your American Flag to half-staff, because the U.S. Constitution is already on life-support, and won’t survive much longer.

      If you do care then Forward this to as many patriotic Americans as you can, because our country is being looted and ransacked!

      PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW……..OUR COUNTRY IS IN DIRE NEED OF CHANGE FOR THE BETTER!!!

      OMG do you realize who would be President?
      JOE WHO??Ray

  • DaveH

    There are many things the US Government could do before stiffing the Social Security recipients who have paid into the system for decades. They could sell off much of the vast land holdings they have. They could sell oil from the SPR. They could end most of the productivity stifling regulations. They could abolish whole unconstitutional agencies. There are many of them. They could quit blowing up our future in useless overseas wars. Who needs enemies? Big Government is doing a quite fine job of destroying us all by themselves.
    All of the above would require the politicians to forego much of their accumulated power. Are they going to do that willingly? Probably not.
    As far as Government layoffs causing a recession, the pain will have to be experienced sooner or later. If we wait until later, it will be much worse.

    • slapjack

      If the Kenyan Pretender and his Demorat thuggery stiff us our Social Security we must rise up aganist these fools and guarantee them all mud huts in the Kenyan desert. Crocodille stew in every pot for all the traitors.

      • eddie47d

        Probably just the opposite slapjack. The Democrats(2011) will be bending over backwards to preserve SS. It’s the Republicans who are always thinking about abolishing the program. SS is solvent until 2036 and after that it may take some big hits. Americans have come to believe SS is a fully funded retirement system when it is only meant to be a supplement to your own savings or pension plan. Yes there were foolish Presidents like Lyndon Johnson who raided the program to gain popularity for his own social programs. That would be just as foolish now as it was back then. It’s also laughable to suggest that people can rely solely on personal investments (Stock Market)to keep themselves from failing in retirement.

        • Christine

          SS is not solvent now. The 2036 time frame assumes there is actually money in the lock box (that was never locked) or the trust fund (trust was broken by congress). SS is already paying out more than it is taking in. The only thing in the lockbox is IOUs (treasury bills) which means that we need to borrow money now to pay all of the SS payments. The only thing I wonder is will congress count the money borrowed to pay SS towards the debt limit or will they somehow manage to keep that borrowing off budget just like they do with SS & Medicare.

          • KHM

            Christine, you got it exactly right about Social Security and its solvency!
            This country has been becoming more and more socialistic, with that put on steroids under Obama. Even before he was elected i pointed out to people I know, that he wanted to go that way. Why use a failed model? Especially when at the same time the economy is tanking?

        • DaveH

          Eddie makes his usually baseless statement — “It’s also laughable to suggest that people can rely solely on personal investments (Stock Market)to keep themselves from failing in retirement”.
          For one thing, Eddie, there are many ways people can save for their future other than investing in stocks. And how can anybody do worse with their money than the Government did with Social Security? It is a hand to mouth system. As soon as Government receives money from the workers’ FICA payments, they pay it out to current retirees. The FICA money is not going into a Trust Fund currently, like would happen if a person bought a retirement plan such as an insurance annuity. And what little “trust fund” did exist now holds Government IOUs (some security). Even if that trust fund had reliable assets, it could not pay long for current retirees absent the infusion of fresh money from unwilling younger participants in the SS Ponzi scheme.

          For those who would like to learn more about Social Security:
          http://mises.org/daily/4528

          • eddie47d

            Everything is baseless to you Dave H. When you pay into SS you get your money back when you retire no matter how long you live and some people do get more than they put in. If the Stock Market tanks there is no guarantee for your money. You are one bitter person Dave who can’t stand anybodies opinion than your own. The bigger gamble right now is in the stock market so apparently you want folks to have nothing.

          • JeffH

            ???????????????…bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…???????????????

          • DaveH

            More hyperbole from the court jester Eddie.

          • eddie47d

            The arrogant twins have once again piped up with their lazy rebuttals. I see Jeff even fell asleep in trying to think of something.

    • eyeswideopen
      • DaveH

        More Class warfare from the Liberal Eyes.
        What is keeping the little people from starting their own businesses and becoming successful themselves, Eyes?

    • moonbeam

      Hi There DaveH,

      “There are many things the US Government could do before stiffing the Social Security recipients who have paid into the system for decades. They could sell off much of the vast land holdings they have.”

      I have a better idea. How about they stop sending our tax dollars to foreign countries. Billions and Billions of dollars are sent to rebuild foreign nations, like Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Trump said that would be one of the first things he would do is put that to a screeching halt.

      Selling our land would only end up being bought up by foreign nations, just like they are doing now.

      I get great satisfaction knowing that there are lawsuits currently on the dockets where people are taking obama to court questioning his eligibility to serve as president.

      But here’s the thing. Why on earth does there need to be a day in court about it? I mean, the evidence is all there obama is not a citizen of the US. A cunning con man thief he is. Just remove him from office until he can prove otherwise, which we know he can’t.

      Yes, that would leave us with that twit biden, but if bama is illegal, that should make him and the horse they all rode in on ineligible as well.

      One thing is for sure, Obamacare would be tossed right out the window like a pot of piss, along with the billions in new taxes so skillfully hidden within it.

  • Jack

    Until you recycle the pooled money held by the ultra rich and corporations there will not be a sustainable recovery. There isn’t enough money available. 30 years of Reaganomics and no jobs. How many crack heads removed from welfare does it take to build and maintain an aircraft carrier? Why coddle the sub-prime dead beats?

    • maggiemoo

      Wow, Jack. 30 yrs. of Reaganomics? Really? If only our politicians could have been more like Reagan we would not find ourselves in this pit. More gov’t interference, more regulations in our everyday lives, higher taxes, prolonged wars, etc…..How is that Reaganomics?

      • Doc Sarvis

        Reagan spoke about smaller government but he actually grew government under his terms.

        • DaveH

          How many time do I have to tell you this, Doc?
          Reagan was only 1 man against the whole Big Spending Congress. He came in like a fireball, but even his own Republican Congressmen were hanging all over him like a ball and chain, trying to keep his Government cutting ideas in check. He must “compromise” said they. Meanwhile when he managed through great effort (mostly tattling on Congress to the American people) to slow down the rate of growth, the Democrats were crying “he’s cutting the budget to the bone!”. Hardly. Like now, the “budget cuts” were merely cuts to the projected future spending.
          Reagan vetoed 78 bills of which 9 were overridden by a ravenously spending Congress (mostly Democrats, but many Republicans also). Unlike Obama, Reagan actually tried to stop the spending, but he was overwhelmed by a Big Government growing Congress.

        • eddie47d

          Maybe it was all those “little” shooting wars Reagan got us into that kept him from achieving his lesser government stance. Remember those 18 times he raised the debt limit. Both those courses set us up for the path we are on today.

        • Jyrine

          Doc Sarvis and his regular communist line.

    • FreedomFighter

      Jack, dont know Jack about Reagan.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • bob wire

        Jack knows that Reagan was a pitch man for Corporate America and whatever they wanted, he seen to it that they got it. And today, 2011 we are enjoying 30 years of it. Yea ! Us!

        and Reagan was a Democrat that was turned by the dark forces of money.

        and he was a greatly beloved man of higher caliber then many. But that does not make things right.

        • FreedomFighter

          “This is a revisionist view of recent history that ignores reality and denies the fact that President Reagan’s sound policies and determination deserve much of the credit for the current economic picture. Congress should embrace President Bush’s tax reform plan as a responsible return to the most successful economic policy of the 20th century.

          President Ronald Reagan’s record includes sweeping economic reforms and deep across-the-board tax cuts, market deregulation, and sound monetary policies to contain inflation. His policies resulted in the largest peacetime economic boom in American history and nearly 35 million more jobs. As the Joint Economic Committee reported in April 2000:2

          In 1981, newly elected President Ronald Reagan refocused fiscal policy on the long run. He proposed, and Congress passed, sharp cuts in marginal tax rates. The cuts increased incentives to work and stimulated growth. These were funda-mental policy changes that provided the foundation for the Great Expansion that began in December 1982.”

          http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2001/03/The-Real-Reagan-Economic-Record

          We should be so lucky as to see another Reagan.

          Laus Deo
          Semper Fi

          • mark

            This is from the Heritage Foundation please – giant corporate think tank that does the bidding of its big money masters! It’s like printing an appraisal of Obama from Keith Olbermann. Reagan did help provoke an economic recovery in the 1980s but he did so at a terrible cost that we are still dealing with today. He embraced supply-sider economics and broke with Republicans’ traditional belief in fiscal restraint and austerity. His massive arms and other spending combined with tax cuts led to huge deficits all throughout his term. When he came into office the United States had a national debt of $900 billion; when he left office, the national debt had grown to $2.6 trillion. Reagan virtually tripled the national debt and began a trend among Republican leaders (which Obama, a Democrat has sadly continued) of thinking that as Dick Cheney famously said: “Deficits don’t matter; Reagan proved that.” For citations, see: ” After this period, the growth of the gross public debt closely matched the rate of inflation, tripling in size from $260 billion in 1950 to around $909 billion in 1980. Gross debt in nominal dollars quadrupled during the Reagan and Bush presidencies from 1980 to 1992. The net public debt quintupled in nominal terms.” from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

          • FreedomFighter

            “Those who denounce the Reagan deficits should answer the following questions:

            Would you bring back the Soviet empire? President Reagan spent $3 trillion on defense, well above the $2.2 trillion baseline. What did that extra $800 billion buy? The end of the Cold War — saving, perhaps, a billion lives from nuclear extinction.

            No less than former Soviet Union Foreign Minister Alexander Bessmertnykh has been quoted crediting President Reagan’s defense buildup for the accelerated collapse of the Soviet Union. The fragile communist economy, already stretched thin by substantial defense spending, could not keep up with America’s defense buildup. The possibility of American missile defense, and President Reagan’s powerful rhetoric, further persuaded the Soviets they could not win the Cold War, and induced the reforms that culminated in the collapse of the Soviet empire — without America firing a single shot. It was the best $800 billion investment America ever made.

            Would you raise the top income-tax rate back to 70 percent? Commentators also blame the 1980s deficits on President Reagan’s insistence on reducing taxes in 1981. Yet President Reagan inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. Excessively high tax rates were discouraging work and investment and therefore damaging the economy while raising little revenue. President Reagan removed barriers to entrepreneurship by reducing tax rates, cutting red tape, and stabilizing the economy, thereby encouraging risk takers. The centerpiece of this policy was a radical series of across-the-board tax cuts that lowered the top income tax rate from 70 percent to 50 percent, and eventually to 28 percent. (It stands at 35 percent today.)

            This tax relief unleashed a 20-year surge of entrepreneurship, as the U.S. economy tripled in size. The lasting impact of these policies can be seen in successive presidents, who ratified Reaganomics by refusing to even consider raising taxes back to their 1970s levels. Thus, America continues to benefit from lower tax rates.

            Would you trade 2.8 million jobs? Before the Reagan tax relief, the unemployment rate averaged 7.7 percent. Since the tax cuts, it has averaged 5.8 percent — a difference that translates into 2.8 million jobs per year.

            Would you trade $15,000 of your annual income? In the two decades before the Reagan tax relief, the average household’s annual disposable income increased $13,000. In the 20 years following Reagan’s tax cuts, these incomes surged $28,000.

            Would you trade the stock market boom? In the two decades before the Reagan tax relief, the S&P 500 increased 120 percent. In the 20 years following Reagan’s tax cuts, the market jumped 575 percent.

            And don’t forget the 12 percent inflation rate and 21 percent interest rates that Reaganomics slew.

            The Reagan tax cuts replaced the deepest recession since the Great Depression with the largest 20-year boom in American history. Tax revenues actually grew faster in the low-tax 1980s than in the high-tax 1970s, and rising incomes meant the share of taxes paid by the wealthy actually increased throughout the 1980s. Millions of people who had entered the 1980s in the lowest income quintile surged to the highest income quintile by 1990.

            All a coincidence? As Reagan would say, “there you go again.”

            Sure, President Reagan would have preferred to minimize the deficits by eliminating wasteful spending. However, the only way to persuade a Democratic Congress to accept a defense buildup and pro-growth tax cuts was to agree to their domestic spending demands.

            Ironically, the 1980s budget deficits made the 1990s surpluses possible. The budget was balanced by surging tax revenues from a booming, low-tax economy and defense savings brought on by the end of the Cold War.”

            http://www.heritage.org/Research/Commentary/2004/06/Defending-the-Reagan-Deficits

            Wrong again Mark, dude you need to educate yourself more. I was an adult living and loving the Reagan Years. Bill Clinton was a travesty.

            Laus Deo
            Semper Fi

          • bob wire

            Great rebuttal FreedomFighter, ~ well stated, ~ I’ll allow others to take your posting to task.

            But on a side note; ~ out producing the USSR with guns and bullets may have indeed hasten their demise but it set a presidency as still today we spend 20 to 1 on military matters and left to contend with huge disparity this creates here at home as well as abroad. ~ You and I are either sitting at the table with the big dogs or eating their scraps. There need to be a greater “balance” in America’s economy.

            What we ‘gained’ with the end of the cold war, we had ‘lost’ 10 fold flexing our military muscle at the whims of big business since.

            I’d prefer to have back Ivan then what we have today , we had more in common on a very basic level and could work with them on some level.

          • bob wire

            oops “set a precedence” sorry

          • mark

            Freedom Fighter, These are just Heritage Foundation talking points that you have cut and pasted. Can’t you even come up with any analysis of your own? The Heritage Foundation is a huge corporate conservative think tank that serves its corporate masters well and is generously compensated for it. What they don’t tell you is that the Soviet Union was in a steep decline even before 1980. Reagan spent huge sums on defense to oppose a already terminally-ill enemy. It was a collossal waste of the tax payer’s money. The Soviets were headed for collapse already and the unravelling of their system was more thanks to Gorbachev than to Reagan. And don’t forget nine U.S. presidents waged the Cold War from 1947 to 1991 and the taxpayers footed the bill for all of it during their administrations. Reagan alone did not bring the Soviets down. Mostly it was their own rotten and corrupt totally government-owned and centrally-directed economy that undid them. That and their total lack of democracy and freedom. And as for Clinton, his performance was far better than Reagans. Not only did Bill Clinton’s admin add 22 million jobs to our economy – in his last three years in office he had big budget SURPLUSES, something Reagan never accomplish in any of his 8 years, in fact just the opposite. In fact Reagan warped the Republican Party’s former belief in austerity into a spend, spend, spend mentality. Look at George W. Bush’s record on massive deficits even during economic good times – his $500 billion, unpaid-for-in-taxes, Medicare prescription health benefit enacted in 2004 in a cynical ploy to buy senior votes in a presidential election year. And finally you actually pasted this incredible quote: “Yet President Reagan inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression.” This is of course no longer true. Barak Obama did! But none of your guys have any sympathy for him on that score. Only for Ronald Reagan’s inheritance of a terrible economy from Carter. Well, Obama got stuck with an even more devastasted and crashing economy thanks to Bush and his belief in Reagan tax cut solutions for everything. When Bush left office despite all his tax cuts the U.S. had 3 million less jobs than when he started. And Bush’s final budget, his parting gift to Obama enacted in Sept. 30, 2008 five months before Obama’s inauguration had a $1.2 billion deficit, and an economy falling off a cliff. Thanks George!

          • eddie47d

            I really do appreciate Freedom Fighters and Marks comments. It’s good to put Presidents in historical perspectives. No President is as evil as we try to make them out to be and most are never as good as history books try and tell us. Reagan had numerous faults and so does Obama. Should only the negative be mentioned in describing those we loath and only the positive when bringing up what we love about them? We are all 100% guilty of those charges yet we all say we want a great nation. How can we have a great nation if we are all tearing it down? A prime example is the constent negativity arguing Obama or Bush.

          • Cawmun Cents

            Heres my non-talking points reply.
            Remember the word experience?
            It was what you got as a result of actually doing something?
            Yeah that one…..our military has twentyfirst century battle experience.That is,we have fought folks with hair on their asses.Do the Chinese have that kind of experience?
            Not really.Does anyone who poses a threat to us have twentyfirst century…I have been fighting a war experience?Not actually.
            There are some who sat next to us and learned.
            The British for instance.
            But make no mistake…experience goes along way on the actual battlefield.
            It goes far further than having skillions of soldiers,that require Logistics which are impossible for the powers that be to supply.A well fed small army will usually always defeat a larger less well taken care of force rather handily.
            More is not always better.
            If you are going argue that point,I suggest you read about military logistics first.
            Well supplied forces have far better morale than starving,cold,poorly organized troops do.It is just a condition you learn of militarily that precludes fantasies of millions of invading troops wandering about like ants.That strategy may have worked in the twentieth century,but it probably wont work so good now days.
            You see to have a huge army that is effective,you have to have a simiarly huge logistical ability.That is something most countries just do not have.
            Logistics,and experience,combined with cutting edge technology,are very effective.The Nazis were similarly endowed in the 2nd world war,but had leadership problems.I do not see the same condition with our troops,considering we have no dictator and can vote in a better leader if need be….need be.

            We are not fascists.
            We are not socialists.
            We are not communists.
            At least not yet.The distrurbing trend is to speak as if we are.But no….that is not the case.
            Lucky for the countries we are currently embroiled in conflict with,huh?Nazis and other fascists of like type are seldom concerned with whether they kill civillians.And they would definitely not support building an ifrastructure where they bombed folks back to the stone age.Those are two conditions which are not present in our conflict as of yet.So please spare us the armchair comparisons.
            It is getting old,and I am too young to care.-CC.

        • DaveH

          Bob Wire,
          You badly need to read the book “The Big Ripoff: How Big Business and Big Government Steal Your Money”. Both parties’ Politicians aid their favorite Crony Capitalists who in turn aid the Politicians with lots of campaign money (and who knows what else). Some, like Archer Daniel Midlands, pay both parties for favors.
          Somehow, the Democrat Politicians have convinced their followers that they are “for the little people”. Bullshut. They are for themselves. And they will promise the little people anything but give them little (of other peoples’ money) to buy their votes.

          • s c

            DaveH, before most of us were born, ‘some’ people were looking for ways to buy politicians. ‘Some’ politicians figured out that if you can BUY voters, you don’t have to think about buying politicians, THIS is exactly what FDR did. Bummer is trying to do it. FDR used the ideas of a certain Italian Fascist (not Mussolini).
            FDR concluded that America needed Fascism. Bummer is using FDR’s tactics to give us exactly that (Fascism). For those who hate history and who refuse to THINK, Fascism is a situation in which Big Government and corporations are in bed together, and they are supported by a police state. Sound familiar?
            Pity the poor, dumb SOBs who think their leaders are above all this crap. I’ll never accuse progressives of knowing squat about history. They have teams of “historians” lined up to revise history daily. It helps them live on emotions and orders from their non-leaders.
            It’s self-absolution, and it will result in the enslavement their kids and ours. Can you imagine being so treasonous and so corrupt that enslaving children sounds like a good idea? Politics is a form of evil, and we have an infestation and states full of gleeful sycophants waiting o do their bidding. No writer could have come up with such a scenario. The polite word, DaveH, is EVIL.

          • mark

            Dear s.c., you write that “FDR concluded that America needed Fascism.” No, actually FDR played a big role – along with the Soviet Union and Great Britain – in DEFEATING FASCISM 1940-1945! Have you ever heard of this event that took place in those days called THE SECOND WORLD WAR! All the fascist nations – Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and fascist-militarist Japan despised FDR! He was their mortal enemy who marshalled and deployed massive armies, navies, and air forces against them TO DEFEAT FASCISM! Which he suceeded in doing by the way though remnants of its still exist in this world and among nutjob groups like the KKK, Aryan Nations, Skinheads, American Nazi Party, etc..

          • DaveH

            As usual, Mark, you don’t have a clue:
            http://mises.org/daily/2312

          • eddie47d

            Mark is right and still you are entitled to your opinion Dave.

          • DaveH

            It’s Eddie! Speaking of Clueless people.

          • eddie47d

            Wow! Only one of the arrogant ones piping up this time?

        • Les

          Why is it that every liberal thinks the federal government is the answer to everything? None of you ask what the hell the fed is doing with 4 trillion dollars. Why aren’t we allowed to keep our money? We earned it and the “I wants” didn’t. Everything the fed has touched turns to crap.

          • bob wire

            I don’t believe that all liberals think government is the answer, as you suggest Les. ~ But it is true some seem too. But the same might be said for some “conservatives”? ~ as we find “some” of them wanting to invade the bed chamber, get between patient and doctor, restrict voting privileges, deny labor to organize, etc, etc, via government intervention.

            fond thoughts,

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Why don’t you say what you mean and not use cutsey words to say tax and apply more taxes to what people already pay in taxes. You mean Tax the “Rich” some more,but wait it isn’t even taxing them but straight out stealing from them that you would like. You might even call it redistributing the wealth,saying that they made way too much. According to you noone should make too much.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Those who benefit most from our country’s resources, infrastructure, form of government, and workers should contribute more when our country is having trouble.
        As for redistribution of wealth; that has been occurring upward to the top few precent for quite awhile (accellerated over the last decade).

        • Nadzieja Batki

          I am surprised that you haven’t bitten your own tongue off from lying so much.

          • eddie47d

            Me’s thinks that Nadzieja should give herself a tongue lashing.

          • DaveH

            Do you have any evidence of those lies, Eddie? Or are you just doing your usual baseless slandering?

          • eddie47d

            You are the one with baseless slander and dear Dave where was Nadzieja’s facts. I knew you would overlook that you low life troll.

        • jimmy the greek

          You got that right doc

        • DaveH

          Those who benefit most, Doc?
          That would be the Politicians and their special-interest Cronies.
          And I’ve got news for you, Doc, the wealth is continuing to go upward thanks to deluded Liberals who keep electing Big Government Democrats who favor their Big Business Cronies every bit as much as do the Republicans. They are taking advantage of your ignorance, Doc, to feather their nests.

          • Doc Sarvis

            So let’s do what President Obama has proposed multiple times – Have those who “feathered their nest” at other’s expense contribute more to our country.

          • JeffH

            Doc, you can do better than that can’t you…while O’man talks the talk he’s out lobbying for campaign contributions from the same cronies who’s wealth he want’s to redistribute. Oh yes, money from pharmaceutical firms and health care companies is dirty, evil and corrupting…except when Team Obama is pocketing it. Then there is the little matter of somewhere in the neighborhood of $150 million in drug industry ads supporting Obamacare that the White House embraced with open arms. Unions, Goldmann Sachs, Morgan Chase, GE, BP, credit card companies, GM, Chrysler and who could forget all of the stimulus money for small business that ended up in the hands of Obama’s big business corporate cronies(companies like Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, AT&T, General Electric, etc)?

          • DaveH

            Are you kidding me, Doc? Did you read what I said? The Politicians are the problem. Without Big Government, those business people who buy protection would have to compete fairly against the others. There would be no Government subsidies, no special tax breaks, no regulations tailored to fit politically-connected Crony Capitalists, and no protective tariffs. With Big Government out of the Marketplace, the taxpayers would benefit, the smaller businesses would benefit, and the consumers would benefit.
            The people you advocate for, Doc, do not want that.

          • eddie47d

            Jeff did hit the nail on the head but forgot all the other nails. All Presidents (not just Obama) have been in bed with those same companies. Not only that Conservatives invest heavily in all those companies that you mentioned. Jeff does acknowledge the problem but that includes almost all investors in America.Wall Street has power over our lives more than we care to think about and I’m not sure there is a President in our future who will do a thing about it.

          • JeffH

            Easy-E, I’ll try to simplify it so that even you could understand the reasonong behind my comment.

            Doc said: “So let’s do what President Obama has proposed multiple times – Have those who “feathered their nest” at other’s expense contribute more to our country.”

            You said I had made some good points, but what you seem to have missed is that I just responded to Doc’s hypocrital comment regarding “OBAMA” and his “feathered their nest” proposal…we were then talking about Obama and no one else…focus…comprende?

          • eddie47d

            That is your HUGE problem Jeff. You can’t see the forest through the trees! You are so focused on destroying Obama you can’t comprehend the causes from past Presidents. You have learned nothing and nothing will change.

          • Jay

            obama must be evacuated from the White House immediately, and impeached. He’s a terrorist, and a criminal!

        • Jyrine

          Do you have a degree in sociology or political science maybe Doc?

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Ignorance is bliss?

  • Bill Lee

    This is one of the more balanced, less hype-y assessments of our current situation. Thanks for writing it. I only hope people will read it and plan accordingly.

  • http://aol.com sean murrey ILLInio

    it will be aturning point when we kick obummer outand get this mess straighten out.

  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

    Yet another piece that is a piece

    A BANKRUPT NATION.
    United States Almost a Mendicant in Money Centers.
    Republicans have had no part in the great drama of national dishonor — Democrats unable to fill their contract.
    Sound familiar? The U.S. becoming a monetary beggar? I thought so, too. You and I have been hearing it our entire adult lives. I’m certain of this because this headline happens to be from the paper’s Feb. 27, 1895 edition. According to the “experts,” America has spiraling downward each and every year for 116 years since that was printed. The criticism will continue in perpetuity, so it’s really pointless for us to make rash moves as a result.

    Now is the exact wrong time to panic. No one really knows where the market is going to close this week, but that genuinely does not matter. You shouldn’t invest the cash you’ll need in the next five years in the stock market, but everything else, with some variances based on your specific situation, should be considered fair game.

    • FreedomFighter

      I agree, dont panic, prepare yourself, your family and anyone else close to you.

      Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

    • Karolyn

      Absolutely! Panic and fear will only make things worse.

      • bob wire

        worst is what they want! That the only way they see a possibility of winning in 2012. ~ hard to believe~ isn’t it?

        • Doc Sarvis

          Yes it is fairly obvious that conservatives in politics want to drag the country down as much as possible so that they can win in 2012.

          • Brad

            The DNC and Ohmama Administration are already doing a great job at that!

          • Jyrine

            That’s right genius. YOU tell us conservatives what we are thinking.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Why are you such a malcontent,nothing is right and everything is wrong.

          • FreedomFighter

            Doc is obviously a Lucy Leftest Progressive liberal communist type spewing the force fed propaganda of the sinistra.

            Laus Deo
            Semper Fi

          • Doc Sarvis

            Actually, I am an Independent and quite in the center from what I can tell from the variety of folks I associate with.

          • Scott

            To be fair, the GOP has said time and time again their number one priority is to make Obama a one term president. And I don’t put anything past these folks (politicians of any party) to get what they all crave, power.

          • DaveH

            You’re in the center, Doc? I’d sure hate to have to listen to your left-leaning associates then.

          • jyrine

            Doc is a Troll or Cotton Sock who takes orders from his/her communist handlers to go to Conservative sites and be a pest. There is nothing genuine about Doc except that he/she is a jerk.

            Femper Fi

          • Doc Sarvis

            Jyrine,
            More baseless empty attacks arguing for this site to be called personalattacks.com as opposed to allowing individuals to express their own thoughts on a site supposidly promoting liberty.
            I do like the “Femper Fi” closing though.

          • bob wire

            I see Doc as a moderate ~ and like all of us , he can be provoked on any given day.

            To defend something is not subscribing. Doc and myself don’t go around trying to kill everything we don’t personally approve of. If that is you definition of a “liberal” then I suppose to we are “liberals to you. But “you” are not everyone , in fact your numbers are few but you are very noisy which seems to make up for the smaller numbers and explains the mindset of thinking you represent some kind of a majority.

          • Brad

            Doc said, “Actually, I am an Independent and quite in the center from what I can tell from the variety of folks I associate with”.

            So Doc, if your such an independent why do you side 90% of the time with leftists/progressives and their ideology? If you quak like a duck your are a duck.

          • JeffH

            I’m an Independant say the left leaning liberals…Well I say there are liberal Republicans as well as liberal Independents…what’s the difference? What’s in a name…rest assured, a liberal is a liberal no matter what party they affiliate themselves with and yes bobby, I’m using that label theme you just despise. Some habits just can’t be broken.

          • eddie47d

            That would be everyone on this site Nadzieja.The negativity is adored and it’s a trap we don’t want to get out of.

          • Jay

            As usual, this site is infested with left-wing “sock puppets”.

          • DaveH

            Doc,
            I’ll give you that one. You do mostly avoid the personal attacks. But the personal attacks don’t usually start until your fellow Liberals come on board. Eddie47d being a prime example.

  • Bill Scantlen

    Here in Ohio the state legislature passed SB 5 which limits collective bargaining by public unions. It also states that the public employees pay a higher percentage of their pensions and health insurance.
    The unions now have it on the ballot for November 8,2011 for the voters to repeal.
    Nothing is going to change any more that 2010 elections, 2011 and 2012 elections.
    Everyone wants to ride free. You can forget about the great America we once knew.

  • Warrior

    I will STOP my continued insane assault NOW on the private sector through regulations and taxation!

    There’s your jobs plan announcement after labor day. Otherwise game over!

  • Buddy

    Huh?

    This is nothing but liberal-biased-main-stream pablum served up by Mr. Zurbrugg. If I wanted to hear more of the same I could easily get it from the lame-stream media.

    Give me a break.

  • AJ

    This is not the poser in the White House’s agenda being played out. It is the agenda of his puppeteers. The agenda being played out here is that of the Global elite. Their goal, a one world government. The past linage of presidents have been on this agenda putting us in the mess we are in today. And we the sheeple have been brainwashed in ideologies of conservite vs. liberal. Only so each can blame the other for the mess we’re in. Concealing what is really going on which is one agenda, NWO and each side has played a vast part in the grand plan of this new world order. And we the sheeple have swallowed that hook line and sinker. Their result will be, that they’ve caused, is so much social disorder because of the state of affairs and conditions our countries will be in that they will come along as benevolent benefactors offering the world the only solution for peace and order which will be a one world currency and a one world government. Look at the globalist canidates lining up for the GOP nomination. We’ll probably end up with another Global puppet to hand the election over to Barry or they the Global elite will send him packing and replace him with again another pupet on the NWO agenda. And of course on the way to distruction they will be blaming Barry for the mess we’re in. The Global elite will put in power whoever they feel will do the best job continuing their agenda.

    • jimmy the greek

      we had a good start in Europe getting rid of the global elite , however the united states got on the side of the communist when we should have helped the Germans

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Go study all the “isms” that had and have popped up in Europe and across the whole world. They have the same foundation and it is that “Man will be the savior of Man” even if millions had been killed proving that this philosophy does not work.

    • Scott

      I agree 100%. I said it on a different thread here yesterday…all this left/ right nonsense is a ruse. They are all just actors working for the same director and their compensation is what they all crave, power over others.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Name the Director so we would all know who it is. Throwing out words to the air means nothing.

        • Scott

          Nadzieja,
          At least I don’t go around insulting everyone who doesn’t agree 100% with the GOP rhetoric. I like to gather information from a variety of sources and listen to different points of view and then make up my own mind while others find that thinking for themselves to burdensome so they spit out others talking points.
          To your question, the director(s) are big business especially the banks, groups like the Bilderbergs, these folks are pulling the strings behind the scenes putting on a “Punch & Judy” show keeping the uninformed entertained.

  • Karolyn

    2012 promises to be a very interesting year with so many things going on: The end of the Mayan Calendar on December 21, the Presidential election, civil unrest, building energy in the world, economic crises, changing weather, etc. So many viewpoints and opinions on these things. Time for a paradigm shift in the world. Time for change!(for the better) We each need to do our small part in precipitating that change, whether it be by our vote, our voice, our service to humanity, our making our own little worlds a little better, contributing to the common good, bringing joy to another, etc. It starts to sound pretty trite after a while, but we really are in this together.

    • Scott

      We may be in this all together, but I think most don’t see it that way. The divide and conquer strategy has been implemented in so many ways in our society: Dem vs Rep,hawks vs doves, class warfare, diversity/hate crimes to name a few, that most see themselves as a small group against everyone else and the only way to win is destroy the other side.
      Okay, that’s enough, I’m starting to bring myself down. I think I need to go fishing.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Who made you the Arbiter?
        It is the requirement of citizens that they know where they stand on issues of government so when the ravening predatory con men come they will know what is right and wrong.

        • Scott

          Nadzieja,
          Is this comment aimed at me?
          It doesn’t make much sense. I never claimed to be the arbiter; just stating my opinion which differs from yours thereby inciting your attack which supports the point I was making.

      • mark

        Scott, smart man. I’m going fishing today too! And you’re absolutely right: divide and conquer, pit one group against another, get your base all worked-up emotionally often about nothing or highly-exaggerated fears – this is the way politics and blogs operate nowadays on both sides of the political fence. It is really sad and it makes Americans look stupid as a nation that can’t get its act together and accomplish even the most basic, obviously necessary things.

        • JeffH

          …And so the words of the community organizer continue…

          “The end is what you want, the means is how you get it. Whenever we think about social change, the question of means and ends arises. The man of action views the issue of means and ends in pragmatic and strategic terms. He has no other problem; he thinks only of his actual resources and the possibilities of various choices of action. He asks of ends only whether they are achievable and worth the cost; of means, only whether they will work. … The real arena is corrupt and bloody.” p.24

          “The means-and-ends moralists, constantly obsessed with the ethics of the means used by the Have-Nots against the Haves, should search themselves as to their real political position. In fact, they are passive — but real — allies of the Haves…. The most unethical of all means is the non-use of any means… The standards of judgment must be rooted in the whys and wherefores of life as it is lived, the world as it is, not our wished-for fantasy of the world as it should be….”

          “The third rule of ethics of means and ends is that in war the end justifies almost any means….”

          “The seventh rule… is that generally success or failure is a mighty determinant of ethics….”

          “The tenth rule… is you do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral garments…. It involves sifting the multiple factors which combine in creating the circumstances at any given time… Who, and how many will support the action?… If weapons are needed, then are appropriate d weapons available? Availability of means determines whether you will be underground or above ground; whether you will move quickly or slowly…”

        • Jay

          Hmm…interesting strategy mark. Yes, we’re all imagining the crisis all around us, as well, we’re imagining the severity. Perhaps you’re right. We should all come together, hold hands, and sing “we are the world” while obama conducts the orchestra. Problem I have with that is, under what political banner will we all align ourselves under? You didn’t mention that part. What is your vision, mark? What words of wisdom do you have to offer to all the overreacting, frightened people, besides, its all Bushes’ fault?

          • DaveH

            I think Mark has visions of sugar-daddies dancing in his head.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, actually I think it is Robert Smith with the visions of “sugar daddies” dancing in his head…mark, mark, mark has visions of wealth redistribution and Karl Marx… :)

          • Jay

            Hmm…mark and marx, names that rhyme. Coincidence?

  • jimmy the greek

    We can save a bundle if we quit borrowing money from the (offensive word removed) to fund israel.

    • bob wire

      maybe so, but Israel is our “down card” in the middle east.

      • jimmy the greek

        Tell that to the men of the USS Liberty , We should be siding with the Persians .

        • bob wire

          I believe I did say they were a “down card”

    • Raggs

      Yeah jimmy cricket your one to talk as your country Greece is receiving bail-outs from the UN.

      • jimmy the greek

        And it should not ! The cards need to fall as they well we need a total collapse of all the world governments and money systems , go back to start and build a new system .

        • Nadzieja Batki

          The wheel has already been invented as have the societal institution of Socialism. The wheel works, Socialism doesn’t.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      How much taxpayers’ money was sent to your family’s homeland to help its’ failing economy?

      • jimmy the greek

        None should have been !

        • Nadzieja Batki

          I asked,”How much taxpayers’ money was sent….”? You didn’t answer.

          • jimmy the greek

            I don’t know and don’t give a rats @$$ because no country should be funding other countries.

    • mark

      This is a quote – not my words: “borrowing money from the (offensive word removed)” Isn’t there any oversite on this blog to take down overtly racist comments like this? Who even wants to participate on this site if it is just going to be a racist rant page?

      • JeffH

        mark, mark, mark…you do have a history of “race baiting” here at PLD, so you’d do well to follow your your own advice.

        • jibbs

          I’d say mark is a twenty something obama follower to the end.

      • Jay

        mark you tool, there was nothing racist about jimmy’s comment regarding denying economic aid to Israel. Why not contend with Jimmy on that issue, rather then go “fishing” for the boogey man, you socialist gnat!

    • Elevenarrows

      Hey, Jimmy, before you throw Israel under the bus why don’t you suggest de-funding Planned Parenthood? or we could stop paying for special benefits for Muslims…like refurbishing their mosques and giving Imams new computers? and we could stop funding abortions world-wide under the guise of helping women. We could also stop building hospitals, schools, etc. in foreign countries and start drilling for oil here. There are many, many things we could do before throwing Israel away…

      Scripture tells us that God will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse her. I’m not surprised that America is going to hell in a handbasket during the “reign” of a president who stabs Israel in the back and embraces Palestinians. That reminds me of another Bible verse: Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. I guess Israel is in the best position to know if Obama is a friend of enemy…actions speak louder than words.

      • eddie47d

        Whoa there Elevenarrows. I support Israel yet see the need for a Palestinian state. It should have been solved about 2 decades ago or even sooner. Moses wandered in the desert for 40 years to get to the Promised Land and that was a tough row to hoe. Nobody needs to be without a country or at least not have to live in limbo for 50-60 years. There is much chaos in the Middle East that springs from the Israel-Palestinian conflicts. Don’t you think it’s urgent to solve this bone of contention?

        • Jay

          The problem with that issue eddie is that, there seems to be much confusion, and disagreement as to who is the victim, or the downtrodden. Your thoughts? As well, have you any solutions?

          • eddie47d

            Yes, Sign the Peace Treaties which were favorable to everyone and stop letting the extremists dictate the terms. There are those on both sides who won’t give an inch and some of their issues need to be ignored for the good of the world.

          • Jay

            I don’t think you have the slightest clue of what you are talking about! Sign peace treaties? More like death warrants!

        • moonbeam

          Palistine is land given to Israel by God. Whether anybody likes that or not, Palistine belongs Israel. Man can draw lines and redraw them to the end of time, it doesn’t matter. It is what it is.

          The Bible tells all about it and what is to come.

  • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

    This is an extremely balanced article, without the political clap trap that is usually spewed out. As usual, we get the brainless responses about who’s to blame. As this article states, cutting spending, especially in the social areas, is a sure recipe to not a recession double dip but a depression.
    America, along with Europe, is like a person living a 100K lifestyle and then decides to cut their salary to 40K but wanting to maintain the 100k lifestyle. The corporate elite and the top 5% haven’t produced the jobs we were told they would. They have no intention of doing that because the shareholders want the biggest return they can and the wealthiest 5% will take the $800billion annual handout as long as we are suckers to allow them to do it.
    Wake up people, we are being screwed and screwed royally and it is the middle class that are paying for it, with no jobs or prospects of jobs being created. These tax breaks are not creating the jobs and never will and as long as the burden is downloaded to the common Joe, the rot will just continue until the system comes to a grinding halt. That day is way sooner than later, like when the economic committee can’t come to agreement on debt reduction, with further downgrading by S&P and then higher interest rates. Say October/November 2011

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Damn all this verbiage. Get your arse in gear and create jobs since you seem to know who isn’t doing it. You may even do a better job.

      • eddie47d

        Okay Nadzieja I know you are dying to tell us what company you work for and the great job they are doing.(or) Maybe you started a business and want to tell us all about it. What kind of jobs would you create to employ the most people? Right now little is being done so your input would be welcomed.

        • Jay

          Well eddie, seems you want the cart before the horse. Before we can discuss job creation, shouldn’t we be discussing the fact that there can be no job creation without INDUSTRY, as, thanks to your illustrious leader, the majority of industry has been shut down.

          • eddie47d

            That happened under Bush. Now everything is stagnant.

          • Jay

            So what is obama doing about it? Yup, shutting down industry. And like the idiot that he is, wonders why the economy isn’t moving. The best the libertards can come up with is, blame Bush. What a bunch of pathetic retards!

  • IibRep

    The riots that Daniel was writing about will come sooner than expected. Founders of ACORN and members of the SEIU are planning a “Day of Rage” beginning on wall Street Sept 17th to protest the rich. It won’t take much for it to turn into London-style riots.

    Great opportunity for the Teleprompter-in-chief to declare martial law.

    Prepare yourselves.

    • FreedomFighter

      Remember the LA riots? Remember the picture of the 3 asian guys with machine guns standing on the roof of there supermarket? That supermarket was the only business not looted and burned by the rioters. Seems 3 dudes with high capacity weapons did more to stop crime than the 20k National Guard troops.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • jimmy the greek

        You are right on that one .

  • Insurgent

    How can anyone get excited about the upcoming elections? All we have running for this office are professional lying politicians. There is no NEW blood since the two main parties just run liars who make a living by lying. We really are not voting for people, but we vote for the lesser of two evils!!!
    Futhermore, we have no proof of how much the elections are rigged.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      So go sit on your hands and don’t do anything else but grouse.

      • eddie47d

        We know you love great amounts of money Nadzieja so how did you achieve your success? Your strategies for the future are welcomed.

      • Jay

        Pay no attention to eddie’s tail-gating, Nadzieja. eddie’s an arse lover!

        • eddie47d

          You solved nothing Jay because you can’t produce any jobs either.It’s all negative talk to make yourself feel good.

          • Jay

            No industry= no jobs, jackass. You and the moron in office, and the rest of the gaggle of left-wing queers, are the only one’s that don’t get it! Duh

  • Thinking About

    One of the best atricles I have read in the past few years and dead on what is really going on in the world today. There is a lot of wasteful spending when households have been selecting ways to cut their spending. Having been a union member those years allowed me to live modestly. I have also owned a company and now working on a minimal wage job. If a person is trying to support themselves on minimal wage job will have a hard time doing so but my coworkers would rather some rather than none. We have tried cutting taxes to stir the economy but during the same time spending was out of sight and almost triple the debt since 2000. We have a Congress which is showing they do not have the insight to handle even the small problems. We have many who have lived off if tax payers and remain in high places. I was also raised on a farm which did not receive farm subdies. This can be a great nation and all must give and work hard in a united way. It will not matter who is elected if we are not able to unite as our parents and grandparents did in the depression.

    • Don

      TA,,, You have a point there, but i am afraid that there is to much hate in this country for people to come together, i just turned 75 , even the young don’t respect us oldies, (not their fault ) because they have been,, shell we say, EDUCATED in our school system, and their parents the baby boomers are not much better, if you don’t believe me just look around, it’s time to take this country back and kick all hacks out of DC and put someone in there with some horse sense, and i don’t mean a drug store cowboy out of Texas!!

      Sorry, i had to do a little venting !

  • Capitalist at Birth

    In May of 2008 I warned people of what would happen when Obama was elected President. Many thought I was crazy. Since then my predictions have been proven correct. We have had 22 and 1/2 years of NWO Presidents. It is time to elect true free market economy candidates to all elected offices. You have to get involved at the Grass Root level or kiss your freedom goodbye. Unfortunately, most Americans are historical and economic illiterates. I really don’t see much chance that this process can be reversed. I shall continue to prepare for the worst. I hope that all of you will do the same.

    • eddie47d

      Get rid of all the corruption and greed on Wall Street and Washington and then the American people would pull for it again.Capitalism also needs to correct itself and kick out the bad guys and bring sanity back to our financial system.

    • moonbeam

      Same here, Capitalist at Birth. I warned people until I was blue in the face. My main argument back then was that he didn’t have the experience. Never ran a corner store let alone run a magnificent country such as ours.

      Little did I know he wasn’t even born in this country and ineligible to run in the first place. Now, if only the media would grow a pair and acknowledge the same. If only they would grow a pair and splatter that article all over the place, written Sunday, June 27, 2004 in The Sunday Standard. The headline reads “Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate” I put the link to it in a post above.

      If I had a printer that article would be plastered all over the place in my community. I’d even hand deliver one to our local newspaper and DARE them to print it!

      Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if people bothered to some due diligence? This info needs to be front and center everywhere.

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    Hopefully people will wise up even more next year as they did in 2010. We can understand voters’ frustrations with RINOs and GOP wimps who too often side with liberal Democraps. And yes, it’s true that during GW Bush’s tenure, he and many Republicans wandered off the conservative field and spent somewhat more than they should’ve. But did anyone on our side really believe that firing the GOP and replacing them with Democraps would mean greater fiscal responsibility, lower taxes, less absurd regulation, a better economy, etc.?? GET REAL!! Don’t forget – all House republicans, and all but 3 RINO senators voted against the costly failed stimulus/porkulus bill 2 ½ years ago. And if I’m not mistaken, ALL Republicans voted against Obamacare last year. But they didn’t have enough seats/votes to stop either. If Americans had voted wisely in the 2006 and 2008 elections, Obamacare and the porkulus could’ve both been defeated in the first place. Those 2 elections clearly proved that electing Democraps only makes bad situations worse. Hopefully these errors will be corrected in the 2012 (and beyond) elections. And since many voters either never learn, or just have short memories, we must always remind them of the foolish errors they made in 2006 and 2008.

    • Don

      Earl, i agree with you, also our Congress needs to stand tall with the American people behind them and DEMAND that who ever runs for any office must show proof of citizenship,,, starting with the 2012 elections, and just maybe we won’t get another piece of crap like we did the last time !!

    • Thinking About

      You are one of the dividers and not a united, greatness will not come to a divided nation but will deteriorate in the way we are currently. This is a nation of many different opinions, we have this freedom and we are not ready to hive it up. I am also not willing to accept delaying and inaction for the good of our nation. Our Congress member charged with getting problems solved and now they are the problem. Problem solve and not problem production. We as citizens should be about aiding in rebuilding this nation and stop the whining.

      • Jay

        Why is he a divider? If our country is to be great, our leader, and leadership must be great. What makes a great leader? Honesty, which is something our present leader lacks! Nothing divisive about that, thinking about. Think about it!

  • Speedydude1

    I think everyone has missed the mark. Now when Bush and Cheney pulled their big sacm on American Economics and then sent billions and billions of dollars to the people who helped them run the scam (AIG, Banks, Wall Street, Auto Industry) maybe I should say Corporate in general was the downfall of the American Economy. Republicans wanting to keep ILLEGALS working so CORPORATE could rrealize more PROFIT, did say More PROFIT. If the people would have been trusted with the money instead of The Top Money Makers and Money Suanders we would have had a prolific robust economy today with more AMERICANS working and paying taxes that the ILLEGALS don’t pay but send their money back to Mexico, India, Canada (most Indians (India) are here throug Canada and are citizens of Canada). Now all this TAX FREE money being sent out of the country has devalued the dollar so much. Check into the tax laws of foreigners owing a business in the US, tax free federal taxes for 5 years. Hmmmmmmmmmmm what would happen if I wanted that to work for me nada.

    • mark

      This is an urban legend repeated over and over again on many sites that foreigners and immigrant-owned businesses don’t have to pay any taxes for the first five or the first seven years. This is totally false and has been debunked thoroughly. Take a look a this citation for the facts: http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/immigrants.asp

      • Thinking About

        Think the illegal workers without SSN’s is what was referred to. No numbers to pay employment taxes to, paid cash and less than legal citizens are supposed to be paid.

      • jibbs

        The truth is that Snopes has been wrong on more than several topics. Why would use a site that is funded by George Soros?

        • Jay

          Because mark is a soro’s puppet, and disciple. We have quite a few that frequent this site!

  • Carol J

    The biggest problem for me is that so far, I don’t see anyone who has declared for president I really want. We need someone who can’t be bought.

    • Don

      Carol J,, need I say Sara Palin !!!!

      • mark

        Ms. Palin gets $100,000 speaking fees from various conservative organization and she has a very crowded speaking schedule all year long. She received several million for her book and her reality t.v. show which was the main reason that she quit her job as Alaska’s governor which paid a pittance of a salary in comparison. It was her absolute right to do so, but Sarah Palin cashed in big-time on her celebrity status to make giant bucks. With such huge financial rewards beckoning, she no longer had much time or interest in the people of Alaska. Some of us (but not all) don’t see that as an especially attractive trait in a potential future president

        • JeffH

          mark, mark, mark “Some of us”…meaning the demonizing and overtly leftist MSM and the Marxist/communist/socialist/progressives? Do you “Some of us” people still believe in “Hope & Change” to?

        • Don

          I also am from Alaska Mark, and if you are, as stated, then you know the real reason that she resigned as Gov. so tell it like it is, so she wrote a book or two, you seem to have a problem with that !!

          • JeffH

            Don, you have to be wrong!(sarcasm) Olbermann, Matthews and Couric said it so it MUST BE TRUE!

          • eddie47d

            Jeff couldn’t add anything new to the conversation so he repeated the same ‘ol commie/marxist blather. That was brilliant Jeff in making that same comment about 150 times already. Will anything change in your third year on this site? Yes Jeff your mark,mark,mark repetition really shows how you will say anything for attention.I suspect we are in for a long haul in you repeating yourself.

          • Jay

            Don and Jeff, see how fast mark the troll, jumped all over that. The one thing that liberals despise the most, is a conservative woman running for office. Why? Aren’t they the one’s always accusing conservatives of being sexists, while insisting that they are not? Off course, the liberals calling the conservatives sexists always fires back on them, because, if the conservatives were indeed sexist, why on earth would they even consider supporting a “woman” as a presidential candidate? Here’s the application, or purpose behind the liberal’s accusation of “Sexist”.

            Sexist

            The tactic

            Like the racist label the left uses this pejorative to drive a wedge between women and the Republican party. As they do with black Republicans leftist propagandists reserve their most vicious attacks for Republican women.

            The fact that any woman would deign be a Republican is anathema to them.

            They look at Republican women with disgust and disdain regardless of their life stories or political opinions.

            But you don’t have to ask me, just ask the ex-governor of Alaska.

            Why it works

            This one is even less effective than the charge that Republicans are evil.

            Historically, women have not overwhelmingly supported Democrat candidates (although in 2008 women strongly supported Obama).

            But again, there are plently of women out there willing to buy into the notion that Republicans want to see women barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen making casseroles.

            The fact that George Bush made Condoleezza Rice the highest ranking black woman government official in history is of no import to them.

            In fact, I suspect that they suspect she might even have a penis.

          • JeffH

            Easy-E, such the hypocrit…again…get used to it. As long as you and your ilk are around, so will I.

            I can tell by your participation that the only thing you’re good at is repeating, like a parrot, what you hear.

            Speaking of adding to the conversation Easy-E…and speaking of a hypocrit.

            eddie47d says: August 18, 2011 at 11:31 am
            I see SC is full of self righteous bluster without any solutions as per usual.

            August 18, 2011 at 11:57 am
            Maybe it was all those “little” shooting wars Reagan got us into that kept him from achieving his lesser government stance.

            August 18, 2011 at 12:32 pm
            Mark is right and still you are entitled to your opinion Dave.

            August 18, 2011 at 12:35 pm
            Me’s thinks that Nadzieja should give herself a tongue lashing.

            August 18, 2011 at 12:54 pm
            That would be everyone on this site Nadzieja.The negativity is adored and it’s a trap we don’t want to get out of.

            August 18, 2011 at 1:20 pm
            Okay Nadzieja I know you are dying to tell us what company you work for and the great job they are doing.(or) Maybe you started a business and want to tell us all about it. What kind of jobs would you create to employ the most people? Right now little is being done so your input would be welcomed.

            I saved the best for last…POLLY WANT A CRACKER?

            August 18, 2011 at 1:48 pm
            Jeff couldn’t add anything new to the conversation so he repeated the same ‘ol commie/marxist blather. That was brilliant Jeff in making that same comment about 150 times already. Will anything change in your third year on this site? Yes Jeff your mark,mark,mark repetition really shows how you will say anything for attention.I suspect we are in for a long haul in you repeating yourself.

          • JeffH

            Jay, you just seem to have a way of putting things in persective, putting things in their proper place. Again, spot on, well stated and well said.

          • Jay

            Glad to be of service Jeff!

          • eddie47d

            Sorry you had to spend so much time in making a fool of yourself Jeff in repeating my opinions. How Lame of you. Maybe you should just stick to your Bla Bla Bla rhetoric. Poor Jeff is lost unless he can copy and paste. What a HOOT!

          • Jay

            eddie, you seem possessed of a war-mentality. I think the radical muslims would love to add you to their rank of wing-nuts. Jiiihaaad!!!

        • Jay

          Chump change compared to the clinton’s, mark. If you are going to excoriate a woman for, God forbid, making money, and a conservative at that, do yourself a favour, present a balanced hatred for women making good money.

          It would be interesting to know how the average New York voter would respond when told that during the past three years their Senator and her spouse personally received $2.1 million from such major banks as Goldman Sachs ($800,000), Lehman Bros. ($300, 000), Citigroup ($425,000) and Deutsche Bank ($300,000).

          The money — honoraria payments to former President Clinton — demonstrate that the conflicts between Bill Clinton’s multi-million dollar financial entanglements and his wife’s possible selection as Secretary of State are just as relevant in the case of the elected office Hillary Clinton currently holds, raising to front and center the same glaring conflicts of interest that have gone largely overlooked during Hillary’s eight years in the Senate.

          Sources close to the Clintons sought to justify the ex-president’s speaking fees by noting that wealthy spouses of other Senators, including the wives of John Kerry of Massachusetts and John McCain of Arizona, have multi-million dollar fortunes, often invested in the stocks of companies that stand to gain or lose as a result of tax and regulatory decisions made by Congress.

          Still, the Clintons’ situation has some particularly egregious aspects. The New York Senator has been as much the beneficiary as her husband of the up to $10 million a year in honoraria Bill has earned. Almost all of the Clintons’ assets are held jointly, and they file a joint income tax return.

          The potential for conflict of interest in this situation is most easily visible in the case of major legislation presently under consideration in Washington. If Hillary stays in the Senate, the most pressing issue will be the financial crisis. She has already voted for the $700 billion bailout bill, which is likely to be only the first step in federal attempts to pull the economy out of its nosedive.

          According to the Center for Responsive Politics, Senator Clinton has not only received campaign contributions from the investment and securities industries — industries with huge stakes in the outcome of measures almost certain to be taken up in 2009-10 — but Bill and Hillary together have also taken as personal income, for their own use, millions of dollars paid to Bill in the form of honoraria, running from $125,000 to $325,000 for a single speech to interest groups directly affected by his wife’s legislative position. The Clintons are not alone in the practice, but they have raised the stakes to unprecedented heights. In 2006, for example, Joe Lieberman’s wife spoke to the Jewish Community Relations Council in Philadelphia, the Jewish Federation of Central Alabama, and the Junior League of Dayton making a total of $34,000 — chump change compared to the $10,232,000 (yes, that’s ten million+) Bill Clinton made in honoraria the same year.

          Continued: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/20/bills-speaking-fees-creat_n_145385.html?page=2&show_comment_id=18201350

      • bob wire

        Does that mean , you don’t believe Palin is in it for the loot?

        I certainly hope not.

        • Don

          BW, was you talking to Mark or me, if it was for me,, we all have to make a living, and some are better than others at it, it just shows her intelligence , something this country could use right now !!

        • bob wire

          With the utmost respect Don, ~ Palin is about as transparent as shrink wrap. ~ Surely you didn’t buy the stories about how she kicked Big Oils a$$ets while governor of her state? ~ That the Federal Government, the Courts systems , all the Kings horse and all the Kings men can’t get the better of Big Oil but this one women single handed did? They rolled over on somebody ~and blessed her with credit. I would guess Mr. Livingston and his father know who.

          The victims of Price William Sound would roll over in their graves as their benefactors wait for a Exon check in the mail to hear such talk.

          Palin is a “great” woman , good American, wife and mother and a great pep squad leaders and let us leave it at that.

          I work to my friend, I’m heading out to locate and repair a slab leak in a few minutes and I know what it is to produce, honor your word, build a reputation, pay the bills and keep the wheels on the buggy.

          It not easy or they let the Girl Scouts do it.

        • jibbs

          If you think about it , everyone that works or doe’s anything to make money, IS in it for the loot.

          • bob wire

            exactly! there are some exceptions but they are few.

        • Jay

          Bw, I think the loot is something that tempts all who enter politics. It is reasonable to assume that not all succumb. The fact that Mrs. Palin has not as yet won the presidency, the assumption that she may be in it for the loot, may be premature!

          • bob wire

            maybe Jay. ~ Wonder why she cut her governorship short? ~ Didn’t need the money?

          • Jay

            We can sit around and speculate till the cows come home, or we can go after the ones we know for sure are crooks! I understand that liberals despise conservative, women politicians, so naturally, conservative women politicians can do nothing right, and are evil. Off course, a liberal will not dare criticize a women democrat, as that would be breaking a liberal commandment: Thou shall not criticize a liberal regardless, of race, gender, political office ect…Well, since i’m not a liberal, i don’t have to obey the liberal commandments. Having established that, I will say that, when it comes to; evil, disgusting, opportunistic, lying, and feathering one’s nest, Hillary is in a class all by herself, and Mrs. Palin couldn’t hold a candle to Hillary!

          • bob wire

            “I understand that liberals despise conservative, women politicians, so naturally, conservative women politicians can do nothing right, and are evil.”

            No Jay, I wasn’t aware of that. I thought that was just Hillary Haters ~ I can’t remember at the moment who they were, but they were unflattering and loud as possible.

            If Palin trips your trigger ~ more power to you ~ run her but remember you were advised that she’s a nonstarter and it has nothing to do with hate and for sure nothing to do with hating women, big, little short or tall. if I’d had my way, Hillary would be President today.

            So Santa didn’t read my letter either. We have all ready under went 8 years of a GOP rough’cut, born again, anti-science, anti-education, anti-facts, love me,love my dog President. Ones enough! We haven’t cleaned up for the last one.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/17/opinion/crashing-the-tea-party.html

    • JLC

      Carol J — I haven’t yet heard of anyone accusing Ron Paul of being “On The Take !”

      • 45caliber

        JLC:

        They can’t. That’s one of the reasons they dislike him so much. If he was, he’d be just like them …

        • bob wire

          interesting thought. ~ whatever it is ~ the man is well thought of but he can’t get any political traction.

  • robt shrugged

    the ism that works is capitalism, also familyism,and oblectivism.

    • Karolyn

      What is “oblectivism?”

      • JeffH

        …probably meant “objectivism”…guess those darned keyboards don’t always get it right…

        • bob wire

          they sure don’t! ~ gotta go. ~ I hate to leave ~ it’s so~ooo hot out there!

  • robt shrugged

    well let us see

  • robt shrugged

    to see subjects, ideas, values, from an objective open mind with facts, and historic precedents to validate the truth.

    • Karolyn

      I know what objectivism is. I thought you used a word I had never heard before.

    • Karolyn

      It’s too bad more people aren’t objective.

  • robt shrugged

    was that helpful?

  • robt shrugged

    karolyn most people think they are objective, but they are biased before they look an idea with no bias, but they still weigh their result with some bias.

    • bob wire

      Being objective is hard to do, ~ it require “no ego” I know few here that qualify.

      We are all predisposed in one way or another. The only way ~ one might come close to being objective is to be ever mindful of ego and a desired preference to any outcome.

      Leaving you to say, “I really don’t care” and if you didn’t care , I doubt if you would be here.

      • Jay

        Hmm…a bit of a sky-captain, hey bob? That was actually on point, as well, profound.

  • robt shrugged

    By the way there is a book Objectivism the unknow ideal by Ayn Rand

    • bob wire

      I can tell that you enjoyed her work. I did too, She is engaging. But that was many moons ago before I married darling narcissist and spent 11 years learning what the word really meant.

  • robt shrugged

    thats all for now

  • chuckb

    maybe mark should tell us what credentials barry had when elected and show us the proof of all his experience and accomplishments, well, i mean other than making suckers out of half the voters. maybe he invented the teleprompter, gore must have missed that one.

    bob wire, transparency? like shrink wrap? how can you see through her you certainly didn’t see through barry and you talk about shrink wrap.
    quit quoting bolshevik talking points about sarah, you and your cohorts have been proven wrong on all you speak. sarah did take on big oil and she took on the politicians and succeeded, exactly what we need in washington.

  • bob wire

    “you and your cohorts have been proven wrong on all you speak. sarah did take on big oil and she took on the politicians and succeeded, exactly what we need in washington.”

    In your dreams Chuck, only in your dreams.

    and for the record. I have no “cohorts”

    • JeffH

      chuckb, bobby’s a lone wolf…howwwllllll!

    • jibbs

      I agree with Tuco…..
      when you have to shoot,.. shoot, don’t talk

      • bob wire

        Shoot what? ~ your mouth or do you still have a juvenile obsession with firearms?

        I think most young men do but at some point in the journey to manhood the fascination and obsession wanes and common sense takes over.

        For some of us this happens sooner then later. Don’t wait until your are having to shave your ears or watch someone take 15 minute to die to grow up.

  • Stacy

    Nothing much is going to change until we get serious.

    I’m not afraid anymore!

    Cheer up! The Revolution has started -
    Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )

  • chuckb

    stacy, even tho barrys ratings are low at the moment don’t build up your hopes that the bolsheviks will lay down their hammer and cycle and let someone else run the country. give the employment a small jump and the stock market showing slight gains, all will be forgiven and barry will return to his throne as the messiah. the media will have him back on top faster than you can blink and the bolshevik faction will be happy again. you have to realize most of his supporters don’t give a hoot about the country, it’s what they can stuff their face with for free.

    no revolution has started, the kind of revolution they are talking about is nothing but talk and that will get you nowhere. you either vote these people out or remove them by force, there’s no mediating.

  • Raggs

    The “DIRT” police are coming….

    Two years ago I told my boss that the cap-n-tax ( delivered by communist ) was a fail to the farmers in the form of a regulation prohibiting the burning of used crops… Well guess what children… We now have a dirt police… Ya know… if you ploy your land with one of these retards around and they dirt in their eye well you are just chit out of luck because you cannot have your dirt fly through the air and land on someone else’s face… But As far as I’m concerned bullets work better anyway!

  • Raggs

    Yeah the dirt police…. look it up if ya aint scared… Im not scared F-um, its just a deeper hole to dig.

  • Twila

    Before cutting off benefits for seniors, like Soc. Security which account was in trust and never to be used, but Congress raided it. Try cutting out a lot of the welfare, make them all work on roads, etc. What about Indians who are getting payments from their Casinos still collecting about 1,00 per person a month for something our country did over 200 years ago? No other country has ever paid the people whose land they took when they invaded and especially 10 generations later. So cut this out. They will survive. Cut out all the goodies for illegal immigrants and maybe they will go home. Cut down
    Congress’s salary and goodies and retirement for life for only 4 years term And best medical around. They are mostly rich when they get into Congress and get richer when there. It has become a great deal for them, all the benefits, so they are professional politicians and could care less about the people they represent. Congress used to serve without any pay. And they were only there a short while each year. Cut out about half the departments and agencies. Way too many. Cut out Dept. of Education and allow schools to be governed locally, as it used to be and we had great schools then. Money does not help.Cut out eh IRS and use a flat tax instead so everyone has to pay on goods and services. Cut out about half that are on food stamps and welfare. They buy better groceries than I can afford on the stamps. I once worked for a Federal Dept and the waste at that small level was something and that was over 30 years ago. So multiply that by 1000% waste and that is what you get in Washington I was raised during the depression and believe me everyone is better off now than we were then. We had no welfare or food stamps. We survived. But people are weaker now in mind and body and not tough like people were then. They all knew how to work to eat then.

  • Riding High

    To hear the current crop of GOP contenders, if you fought for something very hard and acheived it and used it to your advantage, the Bachmanns, Pauls, Perrys and assorted Tea Partiers want to take it away from you and give it to the Kohn brothers so they can distribute it to their rich friends. So why are we, the American people sending OUR sons and daughters to fight and die for wars started by the same rich elitists, like the Kohn brothers and their ilk? Perry talks about treason and mentions Bernackie. sounds like redirection of the truth, especially from this Texan who talks about God.

    • JeffH

      Riding High, whatever yer drinkin or smokin must be some bad chit or yer just plain crazy…bet yer from that little part of Texas where men are men and sheep are nervous…

      • bob wire

        I believe you are confusing Texas with some other place you’ve been.

        Iraq was all about mineral extraction, not actually having a energy policy that addressed future needs, ~ this was about as good as it gets. So the poster was dead on.

        And where it be the Koach brothers or someone else ~ big oil sticks together and while they compete , they act as one. So he was dead on there. An example of this I will offer you as Palin attempts to punish Big Oil fails miserable and was largely simply political posturing.
        Quote;
        “Palin also stood up against the big oil companies, including BP, over the proposed pipeline. But, according to McGinniss, her objections were mostly political and entirely pointless.

        In 2007 she passed the Alaska Gasline Inducement Act, which offered $500 million of the state’s money to explore the possibility of a pipeline. But, riding on a wave of anti-oil-company sentiment in her state, the money came under Palin’s terms—which, reported McGinniss, seemed designed to specifically preclude BP, ExxonMobil, and ConocoPhillips.
        Sea Nettle – Jellyfish,x-default

        The Gulf spill’s disastrous effects on marine life, Jesse Cancelmo

        The contract eventually went to a Canadian company called TransCanada. The problem was that TransCanada did not have any gas itself; it would still inevitably be forced to deal with oil companies in order to get the product flowing profitably through the pipe. By 2008, then-CEO Harold Kvisle was saying he wasn’t sure whether the pipeline he had planned, after taking $500 million from Alaska, would ever get built. Inevitably, he sought the cooperation of the big oil companies.

        Today, the first line on TransCanada’s Alaska Pipeline Project Web site, reads thus: “TransCanada and ExxonMobil are working together to advance the Alaska Pipeline Project.”

        Palin, meanwhile, reversed her views on oil companies to fall in line with John McCain’s pro-drilling policy when she ran alongside him in the 2008 election. During the vice presidential debate, she described offshore drilling as “safe” and “environmentally friendly.” And her politically expedient cries of “drill, baby, drill,” during that campaign and since, are hardly brimming with anti-oil-company sentiment.”

        So Palin might speak of victories and standing on principals ~ but the victories tiny and the principles change with who she’s sleeping with.

      • eddie47d

        Jeff is from the State of Confusion!

  • chuckb

    so is bob wire! he’s still buying into bolshevik propaganda and twisting the story. palin gives he and the bolsheviks nightmares. that’s what conservatives do to the communist left.

    • Jay

      That’s right chuchb, the bolsheviks are a bunch of nancy’s, so delicate and tender, and so easily offended. Wait a minute, i just described a homosexual!

    • bob wire

      Night mares? LOL! Run Her Chuck ~ by all means , write her in, support her. Vote for her.

      When you wake up after the election don’t blame people that told you so.

      Mark my words Chucky ~ Palin is a non-starter.

      and I’m not sure what to make of your comments Jay and elect to ignore them.

      Mr. Peppermint and Captain Kangaroo was both dog face soldiers that survived the Normandy invasion so don’t let appearances and gentle ways fool you.

      • Jay

        Mark your words? Since when do we mark your words, bw? Mr. Peppermint and Captain Kangaroo survived Normandy? Weren’t they the last to set foot on the beach? If memory serves.

  • Leonard Friedman

    The answer to creating jobs is to introduce the apprentice system in this country. Foreign companies can train the apprentices to work in the companies newly created American sub units. The foreign companies will benefit from state and federal subsidization of the apprentices and a foothold in the United States.

    The Thinker

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