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July 8, 2011 by  


How long before every aspect of government has its own police force? Apparently, we are nearly there, as an 83-year-old New York woman found out on June 25.

Darbe Pitofsky told CBS New York that at about 6:30 that morning, she was on her way to get a cup of coffee when she threw a brown bag filled with old papers in a city litter basket near her apartment on East 71st Street. Suddenly, a city sanitation worker swooped down on her and demanded her information to write a summons.

“I froze,” Pitofsky told the station’s reporter. “He just frightened the hell out of me, scared me to death. I was terrified.”

She told the station the sanitation worker demanded a form of identification and threatened to “put her away” if she didn’t comply. The worker took 25 minutes to write out her ticket; and when she complained that it would cost $100, he threatened to make it $300. Her crime: Street baskets are for pedestrian use.

So this is where we are in America. Sanitation workers are staking out garbage pails, discerning who can and who can’t use them. An isolated incident? Hardly. In December, 80-year-old Delia Gluckin was fined $100 for improper disposal for throwing her newspaper in the trashcan in the Inwood neighborhood, the station reported.

And to further connect the dots, in March 2010 the U.S. Department of Education purchased 27 Remington Model 870 police 12-guage shotguns for its Office of Inspector General, which is the “law enforcement” arm of the Department. Last month, the Department apparently put those guns to use when OIG special agents executed a search warrant at a Stockton, Calif., residence.

Initial news reports indicated the raid was conducted because of unpaid student loans. The DOE later issued a statement denying the raid involved student loans, but wouldn’t say specifically why the raid was carried out.

It would seem that with local police and sheriffs and the myriad Federal alphabet soup law enforcement agencies, there would be plenty of officers to handle all of the nation’s scofflaws. But apparently not in the United Police States of America.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • DaveH

    If she was reading the New York Times, the fine was justified. lol.

    • lkar


    • refuse2lose

      Why did she give the goon her info? See, this is the problem with our brainwashed public…. they think that they are forced by law to provide an I.D. whenever they are asked. This is NOT TRUE. And especially NOT TRUE when it’s a freaking trash man.


      • cathy w

        i would have walked away from that guy

      • SiliconDoc

        After the TSA, the grannies know they are targets. Let’s not forget the pigs trouncing on the grannies in their own homes during Katrina.
        I kinda doubt 83 yr. old grannie could outrun the government goon, who would have no doubt rifled through the trash bag for an identifying spam letter that was discarded – or run into the apartment complex and demand identification of granny.
        Grannie knew her goose was cooked.
        That’s why I’m for open and concealed carry.
        I would like to see the video where government turd lurker accosts grannie and she gently opens her carry purse and it reveals a substantial .45 she needs to “move out into the open and point toward government turd lurker ” to make room to retrieve her ID.
        In a better world she aims and tells sonny to move on, and he does.

    • Andrea B

      I’m curious how much the fine would’ve been if the old lady had just thrown them on the ground on the OUTSIDE of the can?

      Is it cheaper to just litter???

      Also, did the trash can say ‘Please put litter in it’s place, but only if you’re a pedestrian, and not a resident?’

      And, when a person is out walking around, doesn’t that automatically make them a pedestrian? If not, then is the punishment for hitting a resident different than the punishment for hitting a pedestrian when you’re driving in your car?

      Jeeze…if TPTB keep changing the rules, and changing the wording in the rules, how are We The People supposed to know what is legal and what is not??????

      • cathy w

        i agree andrea b

      • ipsd48

        We’re NOT

      • Mary

        It’s so many BS in this country we don’t know anymore. Until they get us. This is Predatory Police and now Trash People. What a disgrace!

  • s c

    The DoE shotgun raid travesty shouldn’t surprise anyone. When anal retentives get power (elected or appointed), whatever happens next shouldn’t be unexpected. In the case of the DOE, which has been concerned with destroying education in America since 1957, kill it. Abort it. Rip it out of existence, and send its employees to a local DMV, or send them to WalMart, to become doorgreeters.
    Reserve a special sentence for the DoE ‘head.’
    Force him/her to move to a rural area, and appoint him/her to be the new road kill removal specialist.
    That is, after successful completion of road rage etiquette, how to prepare and serve road kill and a quick course on animal identification.
    This is just a suggestion, of course. The possibilities are almost endless. Remember, you’re dealing with someone who is over-educated and over-qualified, and he/she must be re-educated to become a better citizen.

    • Devasahayam

      Actually DoE was established during Dhimmi Carter’s time in 1979–but you are correct on its purposes and what needs to be done about it!

      • Stuntman

        DOE actually stands for Dept. of Energy and has nothing to do with education. ED is used for the US Dept. of Education….

        • ipsd48

          And Dept of Education DOES?

          • Kate 8

            ipsd48 – Good point!

    • Dan L

      SC, Do you really want the illiterates at the Department of Education as Wal-Mart greeters? When I ask where the sporting goods department is located, I want to ask someone who understands the question.

      • TombstoneLizard


      • http://AOL.COM FRENCHIE


    • Dan az

      A door greeter? that’s good! :)

    • Old Henry

      S C:

      That was a goodn! Ya made me laugh out loud!

      How ’bout having those DoE goons learn to change watch batteries at WM?

      • Carlucci


      • http://Henry ipsd48

        That could be a day long operation.
        Tell them ‘watch battery’ and they’d stare at one til closing time.

    • thinkingoutsidethebox

      SC ya made me blow RC out my nose. That is a good un.

  • tim

    The federal dept of education needs to be shut down. Ever since they took over the education of our children has gone to hell!!!!!!

    • Jimmie

      You’re absolutely right Tim – I am a retired teacher and I saw a lot of misuse of funds by the administration and I am sure it’s like that everywhere – also, as long as you kiss up to the head man you can pretty well do what you want – teach or not. I come from the old school where you do the best you can. I had a student ask me why I worried about the kids not paying attention, it didn’t matter what I did, why didn’t I do like some of the others, come in, take it easy, pick up my paycheck and go home. I told him, I was being paid to do a job and I was going to do it. He later became a teacher.

      • Jimmie

        I should have added that there are other dedicated teachers – great teachers I might add – they are not favored at the school. They are the ones that have high expectations from their students, don’t cut them any slack and won’t pass them because they are told to….it’s not easy for them.

    • Bob Marshall

      Tim, I agree! Our education system is the worst in the so called free world. This is in a government report. Not a fact of which we should be proud.

    • moonbeam

      If you think that’s bad, you should witness the sham educational system here in Florida, where the children are between 2-5 years behind everyone else in the country.

      I chaparoned a field trip for my grand daughter’s 4th grade class some years ago. The teacher, who ignorantly did not acknowledge me at all, did a small lesson before leaving on the field trip. It took all my strength to keep from exploding. The lesson was doing things I did in kindergarten way a thousand years ago.

      I got so angry I could hardly breathe, but kept my composure. I could NOT believe this 4th grade class was doing a lesson that should have been for preschoolers. Absolutely freaking appalling.

      I was born, raised and educated in Pittsburgh PA where the education was top notch. When in the 4th grade myself, we had a new student in our class who came from Florida. She was supposed to be in the 6th grade, but they put her back in the 4th grade with us. She was tested and found to not be academically prepared for the 6th grade.

      I have never forgotten that after all these years. It is etched in my brain. Must have been one heck of a personal self esteem lesson for her.

      Living here for almost 20 years and seeing with my own two eyes the educational system, I see why these children are so far behind. The ignorance and backwardness I have found is down right unbelievable. I can say for a fact the children are set up to fail Their parents can’t help because they are victims of the same system. In addition, many teachers here are child abusers.

      FACT: They pick a child, mentally and emotionally torture that poor child the whole year and get away with it. I have witnessed this myself.

      Any child who has spent a few years in these schools and moves up north or anywhere else suffers and struggles to keep up. I know of several families who have gone through this.

      Heard from a friend who is moving his family down here in a few weeks. I admonished him to not put his children in this so called Florida educational system. Home school them if he wants them to have a good education. They will not get it here!

      Schools across this nation should be held to a national standard. Here’s another for you:

      My daughter has a BA in writing. Just for grins and giggles, we called University of Pittsburgh to see if her college credits would transfer. Guess what they said? NO! She would have to get her degree here and transfer to Pitt to further her education. She is over $60,000 in debt for a substandard college education she received at the University of South Florida.

      I love living here and you can’t beat the weather. However, I thank God I was not born and raised here. I would be too backward and ignorant to realize my ignorance.

      I remember talking to a guy about this very subject. He told me about his straight A’s he’s getting and how well he was doing. “That’s great!” I said “But up north, your A’s would be C’s and that’s if you were able to catch up to the level the rest of the class is on.”

      And don’t get me started on how bullies are protected here. The one being bullied gets suspended, the bully walks away smelling like a rose and gets to stay in school. I kid you not. Numerous cases of this nature abound. The schools, teachers and principals themselves are afraid of the bullies! Can you believe it?

      If this offends anyone, I can’t help that. Facts are facts. If you are planning to move south with your children who will get educated in these sorry schools, DON’T DO IT! Unless you are going to home school them.

      • libertytrain

        I lived in Naples during my kids’ entire school years, we didn’t experience the same problems you did; I suspect things are different in different areas. I also have experienced many things and went on school trips and it wasn’t like that for my kids. Daughter went to Stetson University; son went to Virginia Tech. I wouldn’t have wanted my kids in a city school up North for anything.

  • Larry Hearold

    Problem is, WE ELECT THEM or elect the ones that appoint them. Blind leading the blind, or is it idiots electing idiots! Try getting more than 3 people to agree that its a screwed up government and you may have to get a permit for a protest.

    • DaveH

      And that problem goes back to our propaganda education. Exactly the reason we need to get the Government out of our Children’s education.
      They’ve been propagandizing the kids for at least the last 150 years. That is the primary problem we need to focus on.
      To find out just how propagandized we were, read these two books by Thomas DiLorenzo — “The Real Lincoln” and “Lincoln Unmasked”.

      Here’s one:

      • DaveH
      • Christin


        You are right about the ‘propagandizing’ of our youth.
        The left loons are teaching our children well… through TV, not just school.

        My two sons were watching ‘Scooby Do’ on TV last month and much to my surprise the character Velma said, “Oh, there’s my favorite Revolutionary.” as she came face to face with a ‘Che’ look alike… WOW was I shocked.

        I asked my boys if they new what revolutionaries were and told them that this Che character was a mass murderer who was now dead and definitely NOT one to make friends with or seek out for info or help.

        On another show they were talking about ‘protesting’… UGH… and my youngest son said, “What’s the problem you protest to get something,” … Double UGH… and I had to change the channel again. I told them that the only time one should protest is when one’s FREEDOMS and LIBERTIES and RIGHTS granted by God as stated in the Founding Papers: Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Federalist Papers, and Bill of Rights… are being taken away… like the Tea Parties do.

        I scrutanize their TV watching, but it is full of evil and lies as well as dumbing down junk.

        Yesterday, we went outside to water and played in the sprinkler and they played in the mud and made dams and ponds like the farmers do to collect rain water for their cattle and horses.

        Today we are playing board games…

        • Stuntman

          Now I can’t even let my daughter watch Scooby-Doo anymore without having to worry about leftwing propaganda? Must be a newer episode since all the old stuff we have on DVD looks pretty harmless (except for all the scary monsters). Time to make like Cactus Ed and shoot the TV.

          Me and a co-worker also got expensive tickets while working in NYC recently for not wearing seltbelts. I wasn’t even driving. Got the impression that’s how the cops get money to pay for their salaries. It would have been more honest of him to have just pulled out his gun and robbed us since that’s what he was essentially doing. At least out here in the west they won’t pull you over for just that. If they nailed you for speeding or something else, they might tack a no-seatbelt fine on top of it, but I don’t know anybody who’s been pulled over for that alone.

          • AfricanQueen

            You are so right!! I happened to be flipping through the channels and came across a recent episode of Bewitch and they were arguing about the constitution. I thought it to be strange and decided to watch the whole episode. In the end, a character (I believe it was Thomas Jefferson)came out and spoke about the constitution and basically said that although it was written during his time that he would not want it to be applied in the same way in the current time. He basically was saying that it was a living and breathing document needing to change according to the current environment. My husband and I both looked at each other in shock!!

          • DaveH

            I think you’re right, Stuntman, it is nothing more than a revenue raising scheme by the Big Government Gang.
            The Government has absolutely no business protecting us from ourselves.
            For Personal Responsibility, Individual Liberty, Limited Government, Free Markets, and Peace — Vote Libertarian:

          • Christin

            Yes, Stuntman, the ‘Scooby Do’ was one of the new ones.
            I think all the Scooby Do’s have scary pictures and themes and for many years my youngest couldn’t watch them.

            Garbage it… garbage out…

            As far as wearing seat belts while driving is concerned, we have to wear them in our state (TX) or get a ticket… what state is it that you live and don’t have to wear them by law?

            Our Freedom as adults to do as we think best even if that will not harm anyone else is now gone… the gov will do the thinking for you… and that is really scary as they are Communist loons.

          • Bleh
          • DaveH

            On seatbelts.
            1) The Government has no business protecting you from yourself.
            2) If somebody isn’t afraid of losing their life, is the prospect of a seat belt fine going to scare them?
            Wake up sheeple out there. Seat belt laws are strictly revenue raising measures for an out of control Government.

          • Christin


            Calm down, Dave… I’m NOT a sheeple just because I follow the unjust laws… and I am awake.

            By LAW we have to wear a seat belt or be fined… I don’t know about you, but I don’t have the money or time to pay huge fines or go to Criminal Court to protest these freedomless laws.

            Many years ago (in the early 80′s) I was in a car accident when driving out of town in the rain. My small vehicle hydroplaned on the wet road and I did a 180 and rolled over in the fields a few times off the highway and I was not wearing a seat belt. I pushed myself in my seat by holding onto the steering wheel real tight. I was cut, banged up a lot, and smashed my car, but I did not get thrown from through the windshield nor die.

            Wearing a seat belt is pretty smart and I want my boys to do so… that does not make me a sheeple. I am sorry it is a forced law, but there are MORE dangerous things to endure than wearing a seatbelt…

          • DaveH

            What in the world made you think I was talking about you personally?
            When I make a comment, I don’t feel the need to carefully exclude the surrounding commenters. Do I need to with you? If you read the comment I said “wake up sheeple out there”.
            I’m talking about the people who support such laws. And I don’t care if seatbelts are preferred by you or not. That’s your choice. That’s why I’m Libertarian. I don’t make other peoples’ choices for them. Get it?

          • meteorlady

            Christine: It’s all still a “freedom” that has been taken away. I ride a motorcycle and wear a helmet, but I don’t believe it’s the government’s business to require me to do so. It’s my body, my right and my decision.

          • Christin

            Dave H.,

            If people do not care about one another then that will be the fall of man…

            …and so it will go the same with the Libertarian party… Get it.


            If you read my post, I clearly say the SEATBELT LAWS are “freedomless laws” and “I am sorry they are ‘forced laws’.”

            I get it.

        • Void1972

          Another interesting book, “Lies My Teacher Told Me”.

          • Kate8

            It’s a good thing Bush came along because it gave us someone else besides Lincoln to blame for all of America’s ills.

          • DaveH

            Looks good, Void. I’ll have to get a copy and read it.


            Be sure to read several of the reader reviews at Amazon before judging whether to read it or not, as the first editorial review might turn away Conservatives, since the reviewer thinks it will “please Liberals and infuriate Conservatives”. From reading the reader reviews, I think that statement may be very misleading, and the actual case might even be the opposite.

          • DaveH

            You’ve really been well-propagandized, haven’t you Kate? Don’t be afraid to lift the veil. It won’t bite.

          • Kate8

            DaveH – Just your bullyish attitude and your nasty putdowns turns me off to anything you have to say to me.

            Whether you are right or wrong, you really should read more than one book, or one author, before forming such solid opinions.

            The truth is, there is ample evidence that nearly ALL of our founders, and those who came after, were Freemasons and practitioners of the occult. It seems that America was founded, not so much on Christian ideals, as occult ones, toward an idea of America eventually becoming the New Atlantis. While we may consider this a crazy idea, it would appear entirely possible that our early leaders pretended to be of Christian bent in order to futher their goals among a Christian populous.

          • DaveH

            You’re the bully, Kate.
            You bully Karolyn constantly. And you’re bullying me right now.
            Did Karolyn sell you her magic mirror?

          • DaveH

            Funny, Kate, that you would consider me asking you to lift the veil as bullying. For my entire life, I’ve endured your people robbing me blind, bossing me around, even telling me what I can and can’t do with my own body and property. And you have the nerve to whine about me asking you to wake up?
            Get real.

          • DaveH

            By the way, Cinderella, you stated “Whether you are right or wrong, you really should read more than one book, or one author, before forming such solid opinions”.
            Where do you get such BS? You have no idea what I’ve read or haven’t read. I can tell you that you wouldn’t stand a chance against me in a GRE examination. I’ve got 2 four-year degrees, and I’ve spent most of my adult life reading about investments, economics, and politics.
            I’ll wager that you haven’t even read one of the 3 books I’ve mentioned, yet you have the nerve to rank my opinions.

          • Vigilant


            Oh oh! You’ve incurred the wrath of DAVE, the man who believes he’s king of this forum. He’s a legend in his own mind.

            Pay no attention to him. In his “educated idiot” mind, Lincoln is responsible for everything wrong with America. He’s so obsessed with it, you’ll find a link to DiLorenzo’s hate-filled propaganda in almost every forum. Dave reads two anti-Lincoln books and concludes that that’s all there is to know about him. A closed mind if I ever saw one.

            With regard to the DiLorenzo screeds, I quote Dave: “”Be sure to read several of the reader reviews at Amazon before judging whether to read it or not…” That includes the enlightening (and correct) bad reviews as well.

            BTW, King Dave enjoys citing his degrees, as if that makes him some kind of expert. LOL! I could (and do) run circles around him on almost any subject, especially history, in which he’s woefully propagandized and deficient. I have as many degrees and a whole wealth more of life experience than he has, served my country for 38 years and love my country, something Dave finds it convenient to belittle. Patriotism for him is a ploy to get us in line with big government.

            I would counsel Dave to take the advice of Will Rogers: “After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him.

            “The moral: When you’re full of bull, keep your mouth shut.”

          • meteorlady

            Kate dear – Bush did not initially create the No Child Left Behind act.

            The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, signed into law by President Bush on Jan. 8, 2002, was a reauthorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, the central federal law in pre-collegiate education. The ESEA, first enacted in 1965 and last reauthorized in 1994, encompasses Title I, the federal government’s flagship aid program for disadvantaged students.

            So you see what you all blame on Bush isn’t at all something he did. He just reauthorized it and gave it a new name. Now your current President is screwing with it yet again. Some day it will be gone and education will probably work well again.

          • meteorlady

            Vigilent: I find DaveH at least give me facts instead and reasonable explanations of his views instead of useless rants about others on this board. Meanwhile you spend a lot of time writing words that are meaningless and insulting along with promoting your accomplishments. Jealous?

          • Kate 8

            meteorlady – You haven’t been around much in a while, so I know you aren’t familiar with the ongoing “discussion” with DaveH and his Lincoln obsession. My Bush comment was tongue-in-cheek. I’m not a Bush fan, but neither do I blame him…or Lincoln, for that matter, for every loss of freedom that has befallen this country. If I were to blame, it would be we the people, for allowing ourselves to be so duped by the controllers, educational indoctrination and the media.

            As for ‘no child left behind’, ????? I never even mentioned that.

            DaveH is so critical about anyone talking about things he doesn’t believe in..say, God, and covert government activities. He’s jumped on me (and others) numerous times for not agreeing with him. So it seems that he feels okay about shoving his ideas down our throats, but he’s completely closed to anyone else’s ideas, to the point of being fascistic. And he claims to be Libertarian. Hah!

            I’m beginning to believe that he has a pathological problem. He feels that “people like me” have caused him grief in his life, which seems totally centered around money (which appears to be his god). He protests so loudly and strongly about infringement on his “liberarian” beliefs, yet he cannot allow anyone else their own beliefs. Me thinks he dost protest too much. In other words, he can’t face the truth: that he is just another wanna-be tyrant.

            He has continued to throw out vitriol toward me ever since I first questioned his all-out demonization of Lincoln. I didn’t even say I didn’t believe it was true. I just suggested that authors write according to their own biases, and that it’s good to find out what others have to say before judging so completely. Besides, it’s far in the past, none of us were there, and perhaps we’d be better served to focus more on what to do now rather than dwell so tenaciously on the past.

          • Kate 8

            And DaveH, where I got that you “only read one book” is from YOU. You stated awhile back that you don’t read books, but you read THAT book. It seems now that this DiLorenzo, or whatever his name is, has become your guru.

            I don’t care what kind of credentials you claim to have, your world is small as is your mind. You seem to blame others for whatever your plight, as if the rest of us don’t have any problems. I’m here to tell you, you don’t have a clue.

            You are one angry guy, DaveH, and you lash out at anyone who dares question your “wisdom”. All I did was try to have a discussion about certain topics, and you attack me personally. Doesn’t seem to much difference in your approach and say…our friend eddie’s.

            It’s obvious that, once you’ve turned on someone, you don’t ever let it go. It’s no big deal to me. I don’t need for you, or anyone, to agree with me about everything. I’ve tried to be cordial but, as Vigilant said, I’ve incurred your wrath.

            So be it. And good luck to you.

          • Vigilant


            You may feel a simpering loyalty to support DaveH, that’s fine. When he continuously and purposely ignores the facts and figures I’ve provided him over time on the Lincoln controversy, don’t presume to tell me who’s short on facts and long on insults.

            Kate8 is 100% correct. DaveH has a pathological compulsion to belittle anyone, including a Constitutional Conservative like myself, unless you agree 100% with his assertions. I predict others, over time, will see just what’s in store for them if they dare to challenge DaveH on even one detail of his ravings.

            He seems to have a thing against smart, thinking women like Kate8. No doubt his ex-wife was a smart, thinking woman who wised up and left him.

            It may be of interest to you that on three occasions I tried to bury the hatchet with Dave but he wouldn’t even honor the requests with a response. That’s the kind of man we’re talking about. Moreover, he (like you) accuses me of being an insulter when he was the one who started it. I took it for a while and then said, what the hell, I’ll fight fire with fire. Then, of course, he couldn’t get off his high horse and instead of addressing the facts I provided, focused, Alinsky-style, on the insults.

            Jealous? How could anyone be jealous of someone so far inferior to themself in mental abilities?

          • Kate 8

            DaveH – I’m sorry you have so much bitterness toward your fellow man. That’s how it is when you have nowhere to go except man…he will disappoint you every time.

            You might want to listen to what Vigilant and I are saying to you. Everytime we’ve had a debate (if you can call it that), you have not addressed a single point I’ve made but, instead, went right for the insults and belittling. Dave, that is true Progressive (Aninsky) style. It makes no sense to be Taliban about Libertarianism.

            I’ve always tried to be respectful to you, Dave, because that is how friends treat one another. Apparently you are a “my way or the highway” sort of guy. Well, I’ve known a few of those. It didn’t work for them, and it won’t work for you where I am concerned. And it is not the way to try to save our nation, either. We have too much of that now.

            If I’ve said anything to personally offend you, I do apologize. If it makes you feel better to demean and belittle me, then go ahead and get it off your chest. I’m able to take it, because I know who I am and what I stand for, and I don’t need your approval, though it does sadden me that it has come to this. I had thought better of you.

          • DaveH

            I never stated I’ve only read one book, Kate. That was your husband, Vigilant, making those claims. I merely didn’t answer his useless questions because, as I told him before, my reading list has no bearing on whether or not DiLorenzo’s books are factual. Somehow Mr. Logical can’t figure that out.
            In fact, Vigilant quoted DiLorenzo when it suited his purposes, even though much earlier he had claimed DiLorenzo was a fraud. What a hypocrite.
            The bottom line is that you and Vigilant can’t counter DiLorenzo’s facts with legitimate statements, so instead you choose the route commonly used by Liberals — Personal Attacks.
            You are losers.

          • DaveH

            For those who are new to the board and want to see why I don’t bother responding to Vigilant’s inane comments, follow this thread and see how low he will stoop:

          • DaveH
          • DaveH

            All the readers need to do, Kate, is follow this thread to see that you are the one launching the vicious personal attacks.

          • DaveH

            Seek help, Vigilant.
            You too, Kate.

          • DaveH

            What strikes me as funny about Vigilant is that, in his imagined intelligence, by attacking me every time I encourage people to read DiLorenzo’s books, he is actually making people more curious about what the fuss is. So they are more likely to read the books and have their eyes opened.
            Thanks for that, Vigilant.

          • Kate 8

            My God, DaveH. Look at yourself, and the lengths you will go to prove yourself “right”. Even saving old comments made on this board to use for future ammunition. Good grief. You getting to be kind of pathetic.

            Let me tell you something, Mister. I could care less what you throw at me, or what other posters think. You are behaving like a spoiled child. I suspected you had a pathological problem, and now I’m sure of it.

            Take your infantile tantrums and stew in them. You are one sorry soul, and I don’t have time for nonsense like this coming from someone who was supposed to be one of the good guys.

            As I said, I would have expected better from you. Obviously, I was wrong.

          • Kate 8

            Well, DaveH, out of curiousity I checked out the links you posted and, for the life of me, I can’t figure out what your point is. Is that really the best you’ve got? Because I found nothing I said that was in any way hateful or attacking you or anyone else. If anything, you’ve just made a bigger case against yourself.

            And yes, I do call karolyn on her foolish comments at times because she is so outrageous. So do you! But I comment on her comments. I don’t call her names, except once, when I said she was an airhead. You attack liberals with much more vehemence than I, dear boy.

            Do you really think that posters here are going to care enough about rallying behind you to go back and read past postings? Can you see how immature that is? People form their own opinions as they go, and how childish of you to try to enlist other posters against me and Vigilant. Who, btw, I have also debated, and he has never flown into a tizzy over it, because we realize that debating issues is not personal.

            You have a problem there, Dave. Anyone who goes so over the top when someone disagrees with him really does need to get help.

          • DaveH

            For the unblindered curious folks:

          • DaveH

            Personal attack, after personal attack, after personal attack, and she still thinks she is lily white. Unbelievable.

          • Vigilant

            Laughingly, Daveh SAYS, “What strikes me as funny about Vigilant is that, in his imagined intelligence, by attacking me every time I encourage people to read DiLorenzo’s books, he is actually making people more curious about what the fuss is. So they are more likely to read the books and have their eyes opened.
            Thanks for that, Vigilant.”

            Apparently, DaveH suffers from Alzeimer’s disease. I have actually ENCOURAGED people to read DiLorenzo’s excrement, along with REAL history (it’s callled “source documents,” dummy). But Dave will have nothing to do with the actual words and actions of the players and power brokers who were on the stage at the time leading up to the Civil War. He prefers the words of a slavery apologist and non-historian’s second and third hand cherry-picking of documents that happen to suit his agenda.

            Yes, by all means read DiLorenzo’s pseudohistory, but I would recommend going to instead of Amazon, unless you want to put royalties in the pockets of DiLorenzo and, I suspect, commissions in Dave’s pockets. I have encouraged this before, but Dave’s feeble mind has built mental roadblocks to convenieniently forget that I have done so.

            “in his imagined intelligence?” How about mid 130s? What’s your IQ, sonny?

          • Vigilant

            King Dave says, “The bottom line is that you and Vigilant can’t counter DiLorenzo’s facts with legitimate statements, so instead you choose the route commonly used by Liberals — Personal Attacks.”

            What a freakin’ lie! Dave feels that the source documents have no meaning at all in the discussions about historical truth. I have countered DiLorenzo’s lies with the actual source documents of the period, and Dave has studiously both ignored the historical record and resorted to calumny and denigration as a weak form of response.

            You want to talk about lies and slander? DaveH is your man.

          • DaveH

            So, Kate, and Vigilant. Instead of all the blustering and personal attacks, why don’t you simply list the books that you have read and give the readers of this blog a chance to see things as you do?
            Explain to them why they should take the word of a known liar and slanderer, Vigilant, over that of Loyola University Professor and author Thomas DiLorenzo:

          • Jay

            Vigilant: Yes, by all means read DiLorenzo’s pseudohistory, but I would recommend going to instead of Amazon, unless you want to put royalties in the pockets of DiLorenzo and, I suspect, commissions in Dave’s pockets.

            Vigilant, just happens to carry a considerable number of DiLorenzo’s published books. Does not care then, that they are promoting, and in essence concurring with DiLorenzo’s, as you stated, pseudo-history?

          • coal miner




          • Kate 8

            coal – I am aware of the assertions that our founders were members of the Freemasons, and possibly Rosacrucians, and stated so above. In fact, it seems quite evident, judging by the symbolism in all of DC architecture, seals, etc., that this is, indeed, true. The idea was that America would, in due time, become the New Atlantis.

          • Kate 8

            DaveH, Seriously, man. You are losing it. I say this in all sincerety, you might want to take a break for a couple of days and mellow out. Do something soothing and regroup your mind. This stuff is getting to you. I did awhile back, when my computer was on the fritz, and it worked wonders for my stress level.

            I defy you to point out even one personal attack on you by me. The only personal attacks have been on your part, Dave, and I’ve tried my best to reason with you, because I have no desire for this to continue. It’s just too weird.

          • Kate 8

            Vigilant – I just want to thank you for being the only person to stand up in my defense against the wrath of Dave. I know it’s because you are in the same camp :), and it’s a lonely place to be around here.

            While it’s human nature to rally behind the bullies with the most bluster (after all, who wants to be another target), it’s a sad commentary on what lies in our near future, when neighbor turns against neighbor.

            You and I have not always seen exactly eye to eye, but so what? As with Dave, there is more that we DO agree on, and there is the issue of mutual respect. It would also seem that meeting with diverse opinions would be a given on forums like this and, if one can’t take it…Well, anyway, isn’t that the whole point of a forum?


          • Karolyn

            Kate & Vigilant – Of course, everyone knows that we often sit on opposite sides of the fence, and I certainly have been the brunt of a great deal of vitriol and denigration. I just wanted to say that I have also found it unnerving that even when I come up on the same side as Dave, he STILL finds something to put me down about. As you inferred, Kate, it seems as though he doesn’t let go and holds a grudge. It really doesn’t matter what anybody has to say about me. I am confident within myself and hold fast to my beliefs just like everybody else. It is truly unfortunate that nobody wants to give any quarter to those who disagree with them. There just might be an inkling of understanding.

          • Kate 8

            karolyn – You certainly have the right to your own beliefs, like any of us.

            You are right. We shouldn’t put each other down, no matter how much we might disagree. No matter how much we all think we know, the joke is that we don’t know squat. We can debate our points of view, but we shouldn’t launch personal attacks.

            Since you are more liberal, surely you expect that your point of view would be suspect here. But I guarantee you that you are treated more respectfully here than we conservatives are on liberal sites. That is a difference between liberals and conservatives. Conservatives actually believe in free speech.

            Thanks for saying something here. Maybe we should all strive to be more respectful from now on. I certainly will.

            God bless. And may He open all of our eyes.

          • Jay

            I think its important to keep in mind that we are writing to one another. We cannot convey, in our writing, physical gestures, facial expressions, subtle nuances and controlled cadences in our speech, we’re unable to observe each others physical/body language. We are communicating via the written word(s), which can only express thoughts/opinions that can be easily misconstrued.

          • DaveH

            Okay, Vigilant, here’s your chance.
            You said “You want to talk about lies and slander? DaveH is your man.”
            Prove that I lied and slandered you.
            I can prove that you lied and slandered me.
            Just go here:
            Then do a find on “apologist” on that page and follow the thread.
            Notice in his final comment on the thread (after being chastized by Libertytrain) he says “I admit my last comments were abusive and unnecessary”. Abusive? Unnecessary? How about a lie and slanderous?
            Notice also, how he plays the semantics game instead of fessing up and admitting that he just plain lied. This guy will never admit to fault no matter how you pin him down. And he will use whatever under-handed techniques he can muster in his fanatical attempts to win.
            His mistake? Calling Libertarians “slavery apologists”. Libertarian philosophy centers around voluntary contracts. We believe no man has a right to subjugate another unless, perhaps, the subject freely contracts to be subjugated. The last thing any true Libertarian would be is a “slavery apologist”. If Vigilant was half as intelligent as he thinks he is, he would know that.

          • Vigilant

            “The last thing any true Libertarian would be is a “slavery apologist”.

            Then you, my fine friend, are not a true Libertarian.

            As I said before, ANYONE who uses the bogus “state’s rights” argument to bolster the subjugation of a whole race of people is, wittingly or unwittingly, an apologist for slavery. If you were half as intelligent as you think you are, you would know that.

            Get it through your thick skull, idiot, that as far as the South’s actions leading up to the Civil War, STATE’S RIGHTS = PROMOTION OF SLAVERY. There is absolutely no way around it. THE SOURCE DOCUMENTS PROVE IT CATEGORICALLY. When you and DiLorenzo defend those “rights,” you and he are indeed apologists for slavery.

            As for your incessant linking to old arguments, you still don’t get it. Repeat: NO one gives a damn. And as for lying, when you called me a a “plant” and a liberal some time ago, you knew damn well that wasn’t true. You’re not just a liar, you’re a damn liar.

          • Vigilant

            Jay says,

            “Vigilant, just happens to carry a considerable number of DiLorenzo’s published books. Does not care then, that they are promoting, and in essence concurring with DiLorenzo’s, as you stated, pseudo-history?”

            Jay, Biblio sells books, not political philosophy. I’m sure you could find “Mein Kampf,” “The Communist Manifesto” and lots of books on Scientology, but that doesn’t mean the bookseller subscribes to those points of view.

            I much prefer to use to purchase books from the “enemy camp,” because it’s the secondary market and the author doesn’t receive royalties for the sale. I’ve purchased both of DiLorenzo’s books, Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” and Howard Zinn’s “history” of America through Biblio. I wouldn’t put money in the pockets of these propagandists and charlatans for the life of me, but it affords me the chance to see what’s in the minds of these idiots.

            The binding was broken on the used copy of “The Real Lincoln.” I suspect the previous owner threw it against the wall.

          • Kate 8

            Come on, can’t we just give it up already?

            How about just agreeing to disagree. This is getting ugly, and is going nowhere.

            You just can’t shove your opinions down people’s throats. They’ll balk every time. I would think we’d have all learned that by now.

          • Jay

            Vigilant, my apologies for my comment, it wasn’t called for. I had no business sticking my nose in the exchange between you and Dave.

    • DaveH

      And to learn how Big Government growthers subverted our Founders’ dreams read this one:

      • Carlucci

        And speaking of that, this came into my email this a.m. Check it out:

        This makes me furious. Why are we continuing to feed these relentless parasites? Right now it says “voluntary”, but you can bet your bippy that will change. The same idiots who would “volunteer” to pay this are the same sheeple who stand in line to let the pervs at the TSA either grope them and their kids or give them high doses of radiation.

        Please send that link to your email list so people will be aware.

        • Dan az

          At first I thought it was a joke!But not to my surprise its true,they actually made it a bill and submitted it to the house ways and means commitee .I doubt it would go any further but who knows!The fact that it was a bill just means that we need to flush now!We need to take names and kick some butts out for that one.For those that want to read the bill here it is.

          • Kate8

            Gee, do you suppose anyone in Congress or any other government fascist now in charge would volunteer any of THEIR paychecks?

            What nerve.

            I swear we are living in Wonderland.

          • Dan az

            Hey Kate
            you came in late you need to see this one that was on here this morning.I would like to see you put your two cents in :)
            You are not going to believe it really!

          • vicki

            Bummer. Link goes to a blank page. Entering in the bill number at the home page of the site gets a similar blank page.

            what is really annoying about the proposal is the wasted effort employers would have to go thru. There is already withholding and you can change it to withhold more and then tell uncle to “keep the change” at tax time.

            So this bill is just another waste of time and resources.

          • DaveH

            The easiest way to get there is to just pick the HR 2411 link in Carlucci’s article.
            Or you can go to
            Then type “reduce america’s debt now” into the search box (without the quotes).

          • Dan az

            There is a EO that got signed by either bush or obumner that allowed the UN to by pass our constitution and let them come in and take anyone from there beds with out warrants and jail them in another country.Can you find it?I have searched for it but didn’t have any luck.I know your good at this so could you post it here? Thanks :)

          • JeffH

            Brother Dan az, no foreign or UN army or police can “legally” come into the US to arrest or take an American from anywhere in US territory. The president can sign a hundred EO’s and that doesn’t change anything without Congressional approval. That doesn’t mean the POTUS wouldn’t try to get it under the radar though.

            Best example is that the UN Small Arms Treaty would be a done deal if Obama could just issue an EO to say so.

        • DaveH

          If we give them more money they will just spend more money. That’s just a fact of political life.
          Look what they did with our Social Security payments. Speaking of that, I keep hearing them talking about doing something about Social Security because they’re running out of money. Bull. Before they touch paying back what they took from us, they need to first get out of all the Unconstitutional programs which they are running, such as DOE (both of them), ATF, HUD, SEC, FCC, ….. and those endless foreign wars. And they need to sell off some of that 30% of land that they hold in the United States and other assets they hold. Creepy Creeps.

          Throw the bums out in 2012!

          • Christin


            I ‘Second’ that!

          • Bleh

            “And they need to sell off some of that 30% of land that they hold in the United States and other assets they hold.”
            I submit the States that hold that %30 land the fed owns should simply confiscate it and let the Fed suck it up as they shouldn’t have it to begin with.

          • DaveH

            Maybe legitimate, but that would start the next Civil War for sure.

          • Dan az

            If we don’t take it back then china is going to foreclose on it.Hillary used it for collateral for china buying our debt.

          • DaveH

            Do you have any references for that Dan?
            Not trying to bust your chops, just curious.

          • Kate8

            Dan az – I remember that, too.

            It happened soon after O usurped…er, assumed office in ’09.

          • Kate 8
          • DaveH

            Okay, let’s look at this. The Chinese lent us $1.2 Trillion. The National Debt is $14.4 Trillion. Our GDP is $14.7 Trillion per year.
            Does anybody think that the Chinese wouldn’t be first to be paid if their loan is indeed collateralized?
            Not that I’m making light of that situation. It’s just one more example of Obama selling our country down the river. But assuming we don’t borrow any more from them, we could easily pay off the debt if we shrunk Government back down to its Constitutionally mandated size.
            Also keep in mind that Obama is scamming the Chinese as much as he is us, because as more money is created by the Federal Reserve, we will be paying them off with much cheaper dollars.
            An even more serious problem is the nearly tripling of our money supply by the Federal Reserve. Once all that money starts coming out of the woodworks (and it will eventually) our consumer prices are going to skyrocket.

    • Roamntic Violence

      100% I agree. I’ve been saying the same thing for the last 20 years and still, nobody gets it; maybe slow cognitive development. BTW, I don’t vote but I’m willing to bet that by November 2012, there’ll be plenty of idiots to take my place. Time for emigration or revolution because nothing is going to change unless it is forced..


      • DaveH

        Revolutions rarely produce positive results. Even ours, which thanks to a few learned men produced positive results, was subverted in less than 70 years by power hungry men.
        If we can fight and die, wouldn’t it be smarter to use that energy to take our country back by educating our ignorant neighbors, friends, and relatives and putting Freedom loving leaders in office?

        • Fina B.

          YOU CAN’T FIX STUPID! You cannot educate people who don’t want to be educated.

          • DaveH

            You sure can’t make people think by force. It is unfortunate that so many people can only learn by negative experiences, but even then they won’t learn if somebody hasn’t put the seed of knowledge in their brains so they can recognize what has caused their negative experiences.
            It’s a lot easier to fix things peacefully then to fix them at the point of a gun.

          • Kate 8

            True enough, Dave. And it always begins with US.

          • Al Sieber

            Kate, I live in N.W. Ariz. near Nevada and Harry Reid is pushing selling land to China to build a solar electric plant in Nevada, so here goes more of our land to China. and they’re selling our mineral, water, etc. thanks for the link.

          • Kate 8

            Al – I saw a speech awhile back given by a Chinese official. I think I even posted it a year or so ago.

            Like the Islamic nations and the Mexicans, the Chinese covet US soil. They want our country for their expansion of their population and their industry, and this man was clear that they intend to remove the Americans as we are not part of the package.

            It seems that many are hellbent on the takeover of America from within, and the battle may well be, not with Americans, but between those vying for conquest. After all, our government is virtually HANDING US OVER to our enemies, piece by piece, and it seems that there is little we can do to stop it.

          • Al Sieber

            Well Kate, it looks like we’re in for a fight.

        • ipsd48

          It was subverted in under TEN years, which is why the constitution was written

  • Pat Bright

    I am wondering what the fine would be for just throwing the trash on the sidewalk? Both individuals did the right thing by finding an appropriate container, yet the idiots from the sanitation department fined them !

    • DaveH

      It’s all about revenue raising for their gang, the biggest one in the land.

    • Christin

      Pat Bright,

      Great point!
      That’s exactly what I was thinking… those examples show the people being responsible throwing their trash in the appropriate container instead of littering.

      Will have to share this with my spouse as he used to take our big trash to a dumpster in a shopping center rather than wait for months for the garbage pick-up to take it… can’t imagine what they would have fined him and how many days he would have had to serve.

      Crazies with “Power and weapons” in the Sanitation Dept and Police Dept… be wary folks. Small infractions and even what used to be misdemeanors are now CRIMINAL CRIMES and you will see the inside of the Criminal Courts of Injustice.

      My spouse also parked in a Handicapped spot as his partner told him to hurry up and get in the building to help him do payroll as their were a dozen guys there to get paid… the only parking space left was a handicapped spot and he got a ticket. Do you guys know it is a criminal offense to park in a handicapped spot, now… WOW???

      The Police State is here… alive and well… and we are at its mercy… instead of God’s.

      • Kate8

        Christin – The more surveillance capabilities we have, the more thing there are that will become crimes.

        They are getting us used to being harrassed and afraid. Fear is the greatest tool of control there ever was. Besides, there will always come a breaking point, when frustration and anger can be controlled no longer, and violence erupts. Then they REALLY clamp down.

        And it’s something like these things that will be the last straw. It’s always the “small” things that are the triggers.

        • Dan az

          Like waco!

        • Christin


          I have already been harassed by HPD LEO and I am already afraid.

          Surveillance and cop car TAPES can be ERASED where they do not want the conversation and their lies to be heard, erased where they do not want the sounds to be heard, and erased where they do not want their roughing up of a citizen to be seen… and still the citizen pays. They can sweep you off the street and throw you in jail on hyped up charges even if you are just a mom going to pick up your two elementary children from Christian school with grapes in the front seat for a snack at 3 in the afternoon. You are guilty until you prove your innocence.

          Since when is it legal for a cop to tamper with evidence?

          They are ABOVE the LAW… that is why they are making/or have made it illegal to video them in action.

          The evil ones only win by cheating, otherwise they’d be losers.

          • DaveH

            I know it would be a pain in the neck, but maybe we need to start carrying IC recorders (very small) around with us and activate them upon being pulled over.

          • Kate8

            DaveH – That’s a great idea. I wonder how many times it would take before a law gets passed making recording officers during any kind of stop illegal.

          • DaveH


          • Dan az

            Not trying to show my ignorance but what is a IC recorder?

          • Kate 8

            Dan az – I don’t know what an IC recorder is, either.

            I assume DaveH’s “bipolar” remark was for me.

            What a guy.

          • DaveH
  • Devasahayam

    New York City was a fine place when Fiorello LaGuardia was mayor–but is now a tip (landfill). The worker was cent-percent WRONG in fining a resident for tossing rubbish into a dustbin–the fact that she walked to the bin, she was a pedestrian.

  • skippy

    What the hell???!!!! If she was ‘walking’ on the sidewalk to get a cup of coffee…is she NOT A PEDESTRIAN???

    • kodster

      No crap, skippy! Considering that the majority of NYC residents don’t own a car, or if they do, it’s garaged, and they take public transportation, because it’s such a PITA to move it and find another parking space? So, the likelihood of these 2 octagenarians even driving in the crazy city of NY is slim to nothing! Something is seriously wrong there. Guess they consider it another form of revenue income, to have the sanitation workers cite “so-called” violations.

    • DaveH

      How about this one from Canada?
      An itinerant Calgary man has been fined $115 for spitting into a garbage can in a move that advocates for the homeless say borders on bullying. The man was given the ticket on Monday when a downtown police officer deemed his spitting an “improper disposal of waste”.

      Or from Prescott Valley, Arizona:
      Spitting on sidewalks or in public buildings could bring a $500 fine.


      Whatever happened to social pressure?

      • DaveH

        Speaking of Prescott Valley, they installed photo speed enforcement about 5 years ago. One poor guy wasn’t aware his photo had been taken on three separate days, so he got 3 different tickets a few weeks later in the mail and lost his driver’s license as a result. He had no way of knowing that he was being ticketed, thus didn’t change his behavior after the first ticket. That is Big Brother at their finest.
        I avoid Prescott Valley like the plague. You’d think their businesses would start complaining as I’m sure tourists will think twice about going through that area after receiving an unexpected ticket in the mail.

        • TIME


          I used to love to go to Prescott they had a killer Restrurant downtown just past all the antique shops. Great home brewed beer, super food.
          Plus that long road off I 17 coming down from Flag was just super for a super blast drive, when they popped up the speed limits it was even more fun.

        • Dan az

          Dave get this my ol lady got a ticket in prescott valley where she works for going 3 miles an hour (under) the speed limit,it was posted 25mph.No kidding!I never go there anymore.

          • http://none Stephen Tareila

            Did she pay? She should not have paid. Your wife should have fought it. These octogenarians in NYC should fight in court if they think they are right. Otherwise your wife and the 2 old ladies are part of the problem also. Definitely boycott this place in AZ but call or write(better) the chief executive officer(Mayor) first. It may work. If not call the AZ legislators and the Governor’s office. Call the Press. Write editorials.

            I used to buy wholesale in NYC for resale in my state(CT). I fought 2 tickets in their Manhattan “traffic courts?” and beat one.

            As for the tickets on refuse, you must understand just how great the trash disposal job is in NYC. Those newspapers probably would have been separated from her garbage if disposed at her apt, condo, or co/op and eventually sold rather than ending up in the trash. There are transportation and weight costs for disposal of trash in many places especially cities. For NYC it is enormous.
            However, the sanitation worker’s attitude and remarks were way out of line. The lady should make an official complaint to his superiors and see the matter to completion! A courteous warning and expanation(2 minutes maximum) of the law should have been all that was given to her. That so many tickets are being issued lends support to the idea that there are quotas and that revenue enhancement is the goal. So, go to court and explain courteously but firmly and STAND for YOUR RIGHTS. And VOTE likewise.

            Also protest to your legislators. If some don’t like our nanny states’ seatbelt and other laws–then protest-call the legislators.
            I put on my seatbelt where required(in New England the states are close to each other, so I unbuckle when in the free state of New Hampshire).
            Maine just elected a Republican House, Senate and Governor. Maine hasn’t done that in nearly 60 years. Now we’ll see what can be done and they’ve started some very good things. So vote for freedom loving candidates, communicate with your legislators, and fight unjust tickets, fines, etc. It is YOUR DUTY to do so!!

      • Ray

        Reading about this abuse of law enforcement in NYC and the comments about Prescott Valley, Arizona, abuses gets my dandruff up! On that, I pose another question: With the proponderance of lawsuits against government agencies and departments at all levels-and the government can’t be winning them all-why are such civil litigations apparently NOT having an impact on these ever-increasing opressive police state tatic’s? I am a victum of police brutality and I sued the police successfully. But it didn’t reform the law enforcement brutal actions!!

        • DaveH

          Because it isn’t their money they spend to defend themselves.

      • DaveH

        Speaking of spitting, I wonder how long it will be before they do forensic analysis on found spit to determine by DNA analysis who the dastardly perp was?
        Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.

  • hopalong

    GESTOPOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • ipsd48

      more like C.H.A.O.S.

  • jim

    just a note to think about. have we all noticed that our local leo’s are looking more and more like storm troopers than old officer “joe bolton”? when “it” hits the fan (when HE finds a reason to declare martial law) we will be surrounded by a para military police force! lots of luck!

    • Cameron

      This was not a LEO this was someone who was given responsibility who cannot handle it.

    • Sarah

      I agree Jim and it’s what scares me the most! Those in our law enforcement who wont’ want to go along with Marshall Law will be replaced by the UN… But… OUR CONSTITUTION GIVES US THE RIGHT TO FIGHT BACK! AND ONE HECK OF A FIGHT IT WILL BE!

      • JimRed

        Those in our law enforcement who wont’ want to go along with Marshall Law will be replaced by the UN…

        The upside is that those light blue helmets make wonderful targets…suggest that your local range get UN helmet targets to prepare us.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Crickdick

        Amen sister.Been ready for this day.Payback

    • ipsd48

      Did you really expect anything DIFFERENT after Clinton signed his National Police Act?

  • mickey

    And I thought LA was bad.

    • TIME


      I have an office still in NYC, but years ago back when the Dink was the law of NYC I was assaulted one morning. During that assault I was stabbed twice. I know so what?
      Well please keep in mind I was the victim I did take the knife away from the twit, I then beat the crap out of him. Keep in mind I have was stabbed in the chest and the arm.
      Yet I got arrested and charged with assault! I kid you not.

      • Dan az

        I believe it!Here if you call the cops your in the right even if you are the robber!Its true it happens allot here.Guilty until proven innocent.Spendy I might add!

        • TIME

          Dan you bring up a really point indeed. Anyone not awake yet, what Dan just posted is dead on truth.

          The system was set up that you were only alledged to have been involved, but you were Not Guilty until proven otherwise. Now its a 180* flip your guilty until you prove otherwise.

          So now with this flipped system BTW we all have allwoed the political class to enslave us with.
          You get alledged safty, to sublimate your needs with rather than Freedom and Personal liberty.
          This form of Government we now have is really no differant than the NAZI’S.

          • ipsd48

            Perhaps Jerry the Jackel would be a better nomme de guerre

        • Christin

          Dan az,

          A mom told me that her daughter called their unstable female neighbor a “b-tch” and evidentally she call the cops. (I found out later that the neighbor was a mother of a cop.) The cop that came walked on the daughter and the lady’s private property and grabbed the 22 yr old daughter and the mom put her hand in front of her daughter and said, “What are you doing? Let’s all calm down.” The cop said, “I’m taking you (the mother) in, too.” And she said, “For what? On what grounds?” And the cop said, “I’ll think of something… and he threw them both in jail.”

          True story.

          Police State is here…

          The leo’s are emboldened, rough, armed, and ready to make some money …esp holiday bonuses.

          American citizen beware.

          • Dan az

            I know what you mean!I find it hard to believe it times but it happened to a friend of mine in williams.These four want to be cowboys that work on the train as train robbers were sitting outside of a local 7 eleven and my buddy a professional heavy weight boxer came out of the store and one of them said shoot him.Well my buddy asked them to repeat what they had said and they got up and walked into the store and laughed at him so he followed them in and ask them again and when they wouldn’t repeat it he said thats what I thought your just a bunch of c-nts and walked out.That day a little later he had 5 cop cars and a bunch of gun pointing want to be’s take him to jail.He spent the night in jail and the judge just told him to watch his mouth.One of the jerks was the mayor of the town. oops!

          • Christin

            Dan z,

            I am not for cussing and talking trash… but, I’d like to know where it says you can not swear at someone, even an arrogant officer, in public…

            If there are REAL ACTUAL LAWS about that then most the officers would constantly be in jail because they are obnoxious cussers… if there are not laws then Power Hungry Police should shut the heck up and quite harassing the public and wasting their time.

            The LEO just hate it if you don’t worship the ground they walk on.

            someone should tell that there is already a Jesus Christ that can walk on water and bring the dead back to life.

            It is evident to me that police use much hyperbole when they accuse the citizenry of misconduct and misdemeanors they classify as crimes.

          • Dan az

            I’m a leo :)stop it!:)

          • Christin

            Dan z,

            Leo as in ‘leo the lion’ for a July or August birthday…

            Or LEO as in “Law Enforcement Officer”…. ? ;]

          • Karolyn

            Christin – I used to live new a small town in NJ that enacted an anti-swearing in public ordinance about 10 years ago. Too many people were disgusted by all the trash talk on the street. What’s wrong with that? I sure don’t enjoy it when some hoodlums are walking down the street “motherf-er” this and “f” that at the top of their lungs.

          • Fina B.

            That’s why some cops get killed. You can’t tell me there aren’t “bad cops” out there. What is it they say? You can defend yourself if you fear for your life? In my opinion, the older lady should have been armed and shot the bully assaulting her young, cop or no cop!That particular one is a menace! I’ll bet my knickers the only ones to agree will be the ones who have been victimized by “police brutality”.

          • Dan az

            As in August my better half agrees with you though!:)

          • Christin

            Dan az and wife,

          • Al Sieber

            Well Dan, I know all about Williams because my son lives there, but Kingman is just as bad, we have the cops out numbered and out gunned here in Arizona. I’m not a Leo, I’m a Scorpio.

          • Kate 8

            Al – Did you happen to see the recent video of the woman who was censored from speaking at a town meeting in Quartzsite? She was hauled off (and injured) by the police!

            My late hubby and I used to spend 6 wks every winter in Q at a gem and mineral show, and it is a strange town.

            There were always Muslim traders there from Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc., and we had an incident where a Muslim dealer cheated an American dealer who happened to be a woman, and refused to make good. The Sheriff was called, and some deputies, including a woman deputy, came out and gathered them all in an aisle, with all of us watching, and the woman deputy insisted that the Muslim dealer apologize to the woman dealer then and there.

            Well, this was the ultimate insult to a Muslim. He was so humiliated that his crew packed up and left. And good riddance.

            It was good to see some good old American justice for a change.

          • Kate 8

            The town of Quartzsite today has declared a state of emergency.

            It’s the lead article on WND. I’m not going to post the link because I don’t know how many will see it this late in the day.

          • Dan az

            I did see that! And I heard we made the national news also!The kiabab fire dept. got some new board members and they wanted a audit, the chief there said not happening so they got a few bills and found that he and a few others were using the credit card for personal use,like taking vacations on it!So they insisted and the next day they had a little fire in the back of one of their trucks and said it was all destroyed,So they called the cops, but they just shined it on and mentioned to the chief that he had a fix for it by way of 150 grn bullet.So they called in the FBI and the AG and I guess the news also.What a great country we live in huh!

          • Al Sieber

            Kate, I live about 130 hundred miles from Quartzsite Az. and know what happened there recently. I worked at the Copperstone mine there a few years ago for American Bonanza out of Canada, yeah! we can’t lease Canadian mining property, but they can lease ours. in our county (Mohave Co. Ariz.) we are fighting against the local Govt., that’s where we start.

  • JimH

    There is a certain personality type, that if they are given one ounce of authority, they will try to dump a gallon of it on you.
    The reason the Barny Fife caractor was so funny is we have all experienced one.
    The waste basket policeman was probably turned down from the police force after flunking the phycological test and had to setle for garbage cop. He now has the ability to take his frustration out on 80 year old ladys who properly disposed or their litter, instead of throwing it out on the ground.(another opportunity For barny jr. to write a ticket)

    • Cawmun Cents

      Notice that the flagrancy of nannyism usually extends to the elderly?If they tried that kind of thing on ol’CC,they might find themselves upside down in a dumpster somewhere.Look folks,I am as tolerant as the next guy,but some things are getting way out of hand.Too many laws are starting to bug me.Its not as if I want to be an outlaw.But eventually in this lawyered up country of ours,you will break a law whether you know it or not,for the simple fact that there are too many on the books.Granny doesnt know these laws and the legislators who produced them,count on that.Its the reason for their pay raises.I am sick up and fed.Its to the point where I have animus to officials of any kind.But it is the nature of progressive government to get under ones skin.I have someone throwing a local publications ads in my driveway every week.I dont know who the people are who put this thing together and throw it in my yard once a week.For all I know,Al Quaeda could be doing it.It could be laced with biological agents or chemicals of a nasty kind.Why should I be forced to pick it up?Isnt that the kind of thing like a mail-bomb that couls wind up exploding in your hand?That is what happened to a man in a town nearby the one I live in.It blew up in his hand….the ads that I am talking about.I called and complained but it was fruitless to do so.That was before the man got his hand blew off.Everyone including people in my own family thought I was over-reacting.Then came the story on the news and I said,”Didnt I tell ya?”Now none of my neighbors mind that I have twenty of these things laying in my driveway.They dont even look at me crosseyed.The level of stupidity in our system is getting to be cumbersome.Question is….who will snap first….me,or the system.My money is on them…haw!-CC.

      • DaveH

        That is what I’ve observed also, Cawmun. When I was a kid (50 years ago), most people just respected the law. We just accepted that obeying the law was the right thing to do.
        Now with so many laws, as you said, a person can’t help but be breaking one or the other. As a result, many of us have lost respect for the law, and thus obey only when we think there is probable danger of being caught. And many people flout the law purposely out of rebelliousness.
        There is no doubt in my mind that people behave better when they are Free. If we want to get our formerly peaceful society back, we need to shrink Government back dramatically and leave people to make their own life choices, whether those choices are mistaken or not.

        • Void1972

          Tolerance, Equality, Diversity. With these words, the Communist were able to control America. How politicly correct, how sad.

        • Jay

          Dave: When I was a kid (50 years ago), most people just respected the law. We just accepted that obeying the law was the right thing to do.

          Dave, have you ever tried to figure out, or come up with a reason why that was so? What do you suppose was the underpinning or at foundation that our society rested upon that produced that sort of adherence or respect for the law?

          • DaveH

            I believe it was the fact that back then most laws were grounded on important morality (theft, murder, etc.) which the vast majority of people could grasp as indeed wrong.
            Now, many of the laws are based on things which a large portion of people just don’t care about. So, they ignore them. Once people get used to ignoring the unimportant laws, it degrades their respect for all laws.

          • Jay

            Interesting deduction Dave, and I must admit that that has never occurred to me. It has been proposed that law, or laws, quite naturally stimulate and incite rebellion in man. The more laws the higher the level of rebellion. Just my two cents, and your assertion seems quite reasonable too!

          • Kate 8

            Actually, most nit-picky “laws” are not laws at all, but statutes, and are not really binding unless we submit to their jurisdiction.

            The Constitution was written to prevent laws that would violate personal liberty, and they have only been allowed to be in effect because of our silence and our acceptance of them.

          • Jay

            You made an important distinction, Kate8; Laws created and enforced for the purpose of societal safety and stability, as opposed to laws created but for the purpose to steal our liberty, or as you stated: laws that would violate personal liberty! I agree!

      • lkar

        The other issue with excessive laws is which ones are priority enforced? Illegal aliens, Naw. Guns sold to know arms runners for drug lords, Naw. War powers act, Naw. Murder innocent child (Casey), Naw. Granny throwing papers away, throw the book at her!

        • DaveH

          That brings to mind “selective enforcement”. There are so many laws that most everyone is breaking one law or another on a regular basis. So that gives the officials the ability to pick and choose who to punish. If you get on their bad side, watch out.

          • Cawmun Cents

            that would be all of us…..haw!

  • Santi

    These idiots are turning our country into a police state. They are trying to get wal-mart employees to act as ice and turn in people if they have no ID’s on them. So if you forget your wallet or purse you will get turned in. WOW what a country we live in and for me to have served it proudly.

    • joe

      I’ve come to regret my 14 years of service, especially after being locked up for 4 years for owning an “assault weapon”, just two years after leaving the military where, ironically, I was required to carry and use “assault weapons”.

      • DaveH

        Whether the leaders are welfare statists or military statists, it’s all about building their power and perks at our expense.

  • UK Newbie

    She was probably seen leaving her appartment carrying the paper bag. Some people do actually use public trash cans for their household rubbish, but a warning would have sufficed. The law CAN be an ass wherever we live, but the people who hide behind the law and behave in the automaton manner of this sanitation worker are the HOLE of the ass…

  • rkeo

    at some point the people are going to have to smack the government in their collective heads and let them know they work for us

  • Kimberly Boldt

    We ARE a “police state” now. State police, local police, DHS, FBI, ATF, BATF, Eco-Nazis, etc. We don’t need any of them! Just a sheriff and some deputies to handle local problems, a citizen’s militia to handle violent factions, a tyrannical gov’t and invasion, and U.S. Marshals for those crimes committed out of state jurisdictions. The rest are all for the “police state.” And the government has them at their disposal anytime they need to put us down.

  • Capitalist at Birth

    The TSA will be the national police force that Obama has spoken about. Look out and be prepared.

    • Al Sieber

      You got that right.

    • Dons621

      Word has it, and pictures of double Chain link compounds that were built along an Isolated railroad siding. 12 foot tall is a bit of a jump for any livestock. They are still vacant at last sighting, HMM planning a summer Vacation or a home away from home????

      • DaveH

        Amazing, isn’t it, how history just keeps repeating itself? And we’re supposed to be the intelligent species.

        • Christin

          I think it all depends on one’s Heart…

          Good or Evil… ya know

  • Ret

    I read a statement that applies to the things that are happening everywhere. Don’t know who the author is.
    “The essence of normality is the denial of reality.”
    The new normal is to have a swat team/garbageman on every corner, for every reason. Wonder if those same punk garbage eater scum would approach a 6 foot guy, or are they so pathetic and emasculated that they’ll only approach 80 year old women. I have nothing but contempt for the likes of them.
    Tell ya what, that a**hole would have to arrest my butt, take me to jail, and I’d demand a trial by jury, or are they being outlawed too.

    • Dons621

      Granny with a sock full of nickels will work wonders on cowards, just have a back up team in place when she yell.s RAPE!!!!

      • Dan az

        Don better yet it should be mandatory that all grannies carry a stun gun so they can watch these guys piss their pants when they hit the ground. :)

  • benrush

    Go to YouTube and watch the Yuri Bezmenov video. Our society has become hypnotized by ideologies that have been injected into our culture while we were asleep at the wheel. It’s called “demoralization”. I think it is similar to the methods Rasputin used although more sophisticated.

  • shestar

    And the Bible says things will get worse!!

  • John

    1) At the time she was walking down the street does that not make her a pedestrian??? ( Pedestrian: “a person who goes or travels on foot; walker. ” If she was driving, and simply threw something into the trash, that may be different than if she was walking.

    2) I know too many people that If anyone ever broke into their house due to student loans and was not a police officer of either the city, county sheriff, or State police… They would be faced with a bunch of bullets… Just sayin’ they better be careful…

    • Dons621

      John you really do not expect these bottom feeder,s to worry about the “RULE of LAW”, that is only for us soon to be Infidels of the Chosen One???

  • michael

    Just another content to go to hell liberal throwing his proverbial weight around.

  • TonyD

    We have elected ourselves to be the world’s police.
    Our economy is largely built around that concept.
    Is it not reasonable to expect that as we are the world’s police, we will also be our own?
    We have sought legal rulings/definitions for every issue no matter how small, creating for ourselves the ultimate police state.
    Generally speaking, we are now reaping what we have sown.

    • Dons621

      At 84 I intend to be one of the “LAST MEN STANDING”. The Germans tried, so did the Japanese, and just recently 3 COLLAGE students became visitor,s to the E.R. to learn a lesson of over confidence.

      I have a long memory. WWII and Korea. Bring it on I have nothing to loose.

      • Dan az

        Like they say Don never screw with and old guy if he dosen’t want to fight he will just kill you.Curious though was it a cane? :)

        • Al Sieber

          You got that right Dan.

          • Al Sieber

            Dan, how much longer are we gonna take their $hit?, and let them keep pushing us around?

  • Fedup&more

    If some Sanitation Worker did that to my Grandma, I’d find out who he was, where he was and then send some of my Badass Friends over to convince him he really screwed up in giving my Grandma a citation.

  • Baba

    This is not an issue about a “pedestrian” but more placing private trash in a city trash container. The “trash police” could have asked the elderly lady to remove her trash and warned her instead of issuing a big fine and treating her like a criminal. If she had used a Kleenex and tossed it into the city trash container, that would have been all right because she, as a pedestrian, would not throw it down on the street and litter. But, removing personal trash from the home and placing it in city trash containers is unacceptable. The issue between the ‘trash police’ and the lady was handled very poorly.

    • Dan

      Actually, a used KLEENEX might even be worse …

      They might try to charge her with some violation for “improper disposal of hazardous medical waste” or some other BS !

    • TombstoneLizard

      Unless it was a huge Hefty sack full of household garbage, this guy needed to shut his pie-hole. I still would have punched him in the mouth. Wait, oh, right, he was picking on a little old lady, not some guy like me who would have stuffed him into the can after shoving a dirty diaper into his mouth!

  • Bubba

    Yup, if y’all compare White Hitler to our Black Hitler, the similarities are scary! Only that Black Hitler Obermeister is TEN TIMES WORSE! When HE (BHO) decides he wants to be elected, he will simply use his power of executive order and declare himself “the peoples’ Leader”(Fuhrer) for life! Long may he live – NOT! It’s time to take action and do what it takes to remove from office ANYONE who is complicit with this NWO or One World Order insanity, inspired by none other than satan himself! (BHO is just his appointee)

    • JimRed

      All due respect, he is merely the lily-white Marxist Soros’ puppet. Other than getting him elected by cashing in on liberal white guilt, his color has naught to do with it!

      • Bubba

        Agreed – just stating the obvious that Obama is a puppet, agreeing to do all he can to bankrupt Amerika and turn her over to the UN in order to create a One World Government – the New World Order…

  • Xin-Loi

    Would he have asked an illegal alien for identification so that he could finish filling out the ticket? Can’t do it according to our Affirmative Action president!

  • Tony in MO

    You all have to remember the words of Obama when he said he was in favor of establishing a “civilian police force better equipped and armed than our military forces”.

    • Dan az

      Thats true 500,000 strong that will be financed by the health bill.You know that bill that you had to pass before you read it!I didn’t think they could find that many gang bangers but who knows,I guess if there is a free lunches you good just about get any liberal to volunteer.

  • JimRed

    The true need for the Second Amendment to the Constitution is becoming more apparent every day. The major problem is the fine line between self defense and murder; you have to let the gov’t thug draw first. (end rant)

  • pete0097

    She should have said, sorry, I don’t have my ID with me and walked away. Sounds like the time a cop tried to give me a speeding ticket for going 36 in a 25 zone on my bicycle. I was 15, no license. He wanted my ID, I said I didn’t have any and rode away. He stood there dumbfounded.

    • Carlucci

      I think the elderly, teens, and young adults in their twenties are the new targets now for “law enforcement” shakedowns (fines). At least that’s the way it is where I live (Texas).

  • deboss

    take that summons,,,tear it up,,,throw that in they’re filthy rat infested,disgusting disease riden govt food prep can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,,,and haul that pigified cop in for tyrant torture tactics!!!!!,,they want serious war,,,NEW YORKERS,,LOCKNLOAD!!

  • deboss


  • Larry C.

    I read this then I laughed, and then I cried. WHY?? Because this is what has happened to a once GREAT nation. ONLY in New York would this happen, a city that does not seem to know the true value of human life, but can say we now boost the cleanest garbage cans on City streets. WHAT a bunch of punks they are. The way they act–THEY REMIND ME OF WHAT IS WRITTEN ABOUT IN THE BOOK OF REVELATIONS ABOUT THE “BABYLON”, and I really feel like the Holy-Word of God is speaking about the City of New York. They are about to kill themselves with this new Mayor they have. The biggest problem that they will now start to encounter is a wave of evil from all around. They started this with the immoral thing that they did with the homosexuals. Mark my words here—THE BIBLE SAYS IT, AND IT WILL COME TRUE, GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED. Time is running short, and New York will be paying for there sins very soon. How can anybody still feel that this city is a viable place to live in, and or to do business in. COME ON PEOPLE!!!!!

    Thank you,
    Larry C.

    • Void1972

      I plan to escape NY in the next few months, I hope that is enough time before the SHTF. NY and it’s new gay governor is in for a very tough time, but they only have themselves to blame. You reap what you sow. Cuomo and his daddy are both corrupt politicians, but only the corrupt seem to be elected in NY.
      May God show his mercy for the good people of NY.
      God Bless America, and those who fight for her!!!!

      • Al Sieber

        Well Void, I escaped NY in 1969, then LA in 1972, sounds like a Kurt Russell movie. hope you make it. I forgot how it was there.

    • Karolyn

      Everybody is acting like this is something new! Well, it’s not. Stuff like this, police corruption, power hungry thugs, bad cops in general, etc. has been going on forever. There is nothing new under the sun. The only thing new is that we hear about everything now.

      • Jay

        Except we are talking about a “sanitation worker” with law- enforcement powers. I can’t recall at any time in recent history where that has always been the case, can you?

      • independant thinker

        Karolyn…….The point of the article is not that this is a new thing but rather that having a an enforcement arm with police powers seems to be expanding to every government agency.



  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

    The law’s governing both incidents have been in effect for over 20 years.Go to NYC.Gov
    All you shut-in’s would have fit right in;in Germany 1939 following blindly
    Do not forget your Med’s



      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        the law’s were put in place due to the fact business were dumping commercial refuse on the street by what were called litter baskets and recycling started

        • Jay

          Hey sarge, did you forget to take your meds?

          • Dan az

            I think we just found our trash cop! :)

          • Jay

            Sounds like poor old sarge is barely hanging on!

  • TombstoneLizard

    I now want to visit New York, just so I can run into this little A-hole. I will stuff him head-first into the nearest dirty diaper-filled trashcan, after I have pounded him within an inch of his life! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!

    • Laura

      I’d like to go with you

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        Make sure you get your shots

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      The truth is the truth.You better check your med’s

      • Dan az

        So sarge are you from NY?and are you side lining a job on the streets? :)

        • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

          Look up the word retired shut-in

    • Karolyn

      Big talker!

      • coal miner


        The Rosicrucians hint at this in the ‘The Chemical Wedding of Christian ….. of the Rosicrucian movement, especially through the medium of Benjamin Franklin ….. Integral to this is an understanding of which constellations belong to …

  • Brenda in Houston

    Bet “sanitation policeman” was not the same race as the “little old lady offender”…sounds like a hate crime to me!!! Also bet, “sanitation policeman” voted for bho!!! …just sayin’…

    • Karolyn

      Now that’s stretching it! Embellish the story so it turns into an even worse rumor. Sounds like the kind of thing politicians do.

  • TML

    We’ll, I notice that the 2 cases of trashcan police involved 80+ year old people. Let them try that on someone who isn’t as docile. The minute someone came up to me asking for I.D. and saying such things for throwing something in the trash (as opposed to littering) they would get an ear full of laughter as they watch the backside of me disappear in the distance.

    The more disturbing news of this article was the DOE equiping themselves with firearms. Seriously, it makes me want to take my kinds out of public schools.

  • paintbrushbright

    Could all of these policeing units out side of regular law enforcement be Obama’s new homeland security army he spoke about? Remember that he said it should be larger than our military.

  • Johnnysal

    Control is the issue when, where, how, you do anything should be decided by a government employee or commitee. This will insure not only social justice (as perceived by those with the weapons to control the masses but will also insure our political correctness(again as percieved by those with the power). Make everything so difficult and complicated that most people will not do anything. Lets give a big hand to the academics, and attorney’s in our society for their hard work to insure that everyone who is not a member of these groups knows their place.

  • JohnC, Freeport,NY

    This is nothing but Gestapo tactics. More and more gov’t agencys are arming themselves. We have to do the same thing. This is gov’t tyranny. It is time to change many governments in this Country. Once and for all, we have to forceably let them know that “We the People” are soverign in this Country. We have to band together, and refuse to obey the Marxist rules they pass. Remember, they are supposed to represent us. They can only do this by doing our will, not their NAZI/Marxist agendas. We need Pro-America groups of armed citizens to TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK from these Anti-America traitors.
    But, in the long run, it is our own fault. We keep electing the same morally bankrupt trash to office. Some of these traitors have been office for so many years, they think they are soverign, and can do what they want. Citizen participation in government is the only answer. But…….I do not think that will ever happen…..The only answer I can forsee is another Revolutionary War. People! Arm yourselves.

    • Void1972

      I’m out of NY soon. Lets start to organize before I leave, so I have a NY to come home to.
      The problem is way too many minorities in NY. They are all on sect8 and welfare and continue to vote in the corrupt who support them.
      It’s sad to think that minorities will be the majority in a few decades. That means America and our dream is over.
      I am going to a right to work state, and hope it’s better then NY. Corruption is all over America now, but I hope Texas is a little less so.

    • Al Sieber

      John I agree with you on that.

  • Laura

    Attention sanitation workers and the fed gov; anybody who tries to pull this crap on me and I will k i l l them and dump their body into the recycle bin!! Am I crystal clear, do you get it…eventually every single gov agency is going to brought down into the very depths of hell

    • JohnC, Freeport,NY

      Right on Laura!

  • Robert

    Yes, we are obviously in a police state. There are police checkpoints on a monthly basis where I live in CA. I had a friend who was recently shot several times and killed by police while unarmed and unaware that the police were even present. They never announced their presence. He died not knowing why he was shot by pistol and shotgun rounds… leaving behind a young son. But who here actually protests against it? Do you support your local anti police brutality organizations? Do you support groups such as Anonymous or Wikileaks who expose the government/military/police/corporate corruption and how much they lie to us? What about the anarchists who say “Enough!” and make their voices heard through marches in the streets? I suspect you’ve been tricked into demonizing them when we’re all really on the same side. Xe/Black Water can come to the US too. The corporations, their lobbyists, and our bought officials (R and D) will be happy to comply with the international corporate overlords. They want to keep us ignorant of their aims with reality tv, sports, booze, porn, poverty, war and one of the heaviest job workloads in the industrialized nations. We’re busy blaming each other instead of them…

    • DaveH

      Do you vote Libertarian, Robert, the only Party that really understands the Beauty of Freedom and Limited Government? Or do you vote for Republicans or Democrats because their style of running other peoples’ lives suits you?

  • jopa

    Robert:All these facts you have about your friend after he was shot and killed, did he come back from the dead and tell you all this stuff or were you there by his side.

    • DaveH

      Don’t be insensitive, Jopa.

    • Jay

      jopa:All these facts you have about your friend after he was shot and killed, did he come back from the dead and tell you all this stuff or were you there by his side.

      And you have the gaul to criticize i41 for his language? Shame on you!

    • Al Sieber

      jopa, what kind of stupid comment is that? reread his post if you can comprehend.

  • Old Henry


    Keep this kind of information coming to the fore. It must be continually spotlighted.

    It appeared there was a trend in NYC. The “offenders” were little old ladies, the kind of prey that those Nazi-types feel safe in intimidating. I wonder if a 6’6″ 250# 30 sometihg had done that if they would have been attacked by the sanitation Nazi.

    You stated that these bins are for pedistrians. Did not these ladies WALK to the bins? Or, perhaps they were using their Little Rascals.

    There could very well be some dead OIG agints in the near future as they are not police perse and when they come busting into someone’s house they might very well be treated to “burglar justice” by the homeowner.

    • http://AOL.COM FRENCHIE


      • Old Henry


        Dead on. It’ going to get very ugly and bloody in the not too distant future.

        In the very small town I live in I have A LOT of neighbors with A LOT of guns. To put it simply – there will be bloodshed.

        • Karolyn

          Geez, it really is starting to sound like you and some others are looking forward to bloodshed! That’ll REALLY help matters!

  • Gator007

    This is such B.S. The D.O.E. Police????? FRiggin , Commie bastards that run this country!! IF they vote this friggin freak show in for another term we are thru!! I’m heddin for the mountains boys!!!!

  • lonetrader

    Where was this done? NEW YORK. Home of Communist Bloomberg who the PEOPLE voted in. He is for disarming the United States. He is involved with other States problems poking his nose where it doesn’t belong. Where is the outrage in New York? I can tell you if that had been me, that city worker would have been knocked on his ass. I will never show my ID to anyone other than a uniformed officer, and he better have a real good reason for demanding it. A ticket for putting trash in a trash can. Time to put Bloomberg out to pasture.

    • Old Henry


      Your papers please….

  • Rennie

    Clearly the gravest threat to our nation is little old octogenarian ladies stuffing city waste baskets, when does Obama call in the airstrikes?

  • Roger

    As I live in California, I have decided that if I am ever attacked, knowing the laws, that I will shoot the criminal and leave him laying in the street and will not call the police. I’ll take my chances of being caught. From what I understand only about 25% of crimes get solved.

    • Dan az

      The only crime that you would have committed would be littering.So watch out for the trash police. :)



  • Raymond

    She was throwing trash where she should not have, so where’s the problem?

    “And to further connect the dots, in March 2010 the U.S. Department of Education purchased 27 Remington Model 870 police 12-guage shotguns for its Office of Inspector General, which is the “law enforcement” arm of the Department. Last month, the Department apparently put those guns to use when OIG special agents executed a search warrant at a Stockton, Calif., residence.”

    So where’s the problem?

    Bob Livingston says he’s a conservative, but he continually proves that
    he’s anything but.

    • DaveH

      You, Raymond, continually demonstrate that you are a Big Government Loving Liberal. That’s right a Liberal. True Conservatives love the Freedom that our Founders established, and blindered sheeple like yourself have allowed that Freedom to be subverted by power hungry leaders.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear Raymond,

      The problem is the growing tyranny of the police state. If you can’t see that, you are no true conservative. I suggest you study up on totalitarian regimes, or, if that’s too difficult, at least read George Orwell’s 1984. Perhaps then you’ll understand.

      Best wishes,

    • JeffH

      Feds Send Swat Team To Break Down Door, Grab, Arrest Man Over Alleged Student Loan Default – with video
      The US Department of Education sent a SWAT team which roughed up and arrested a man, holding him prisoner for six hours. Why? His estranged wife had defaulted on her student loans.

      Federally directed SWAT troopers kicked down Kenneth Wright’s door, grabbed him in his underwear, dragged him to a car and held him there, along with his three children, for six hours.

      “They grabbed me by the neck and dragged me out of the house…” he reported.

  • Stephen

    The nerve of that woman to throw trash in a trash container, every illegal alien knows that trash should be thrown on the streets and that those trash containers are there for decoration only and her ticket proves it.

  • Raggs

    Hey if you smoke don’t worry about the toxic effects and dieing of it, just throw your butt on the sidewalk I’m sure you will be shot for it.

  • DaveH
  • Jim

    What Darbe (first lady in the article) should have said was, “As soon as my feet hit the public sidewalk, I became a pedestrian. You are now unlawfully detaining me without my consent & without any lawful authority under Oath of Office. I’ll bring charges on you if you don’t leave me alone NOW.”

  • Libertarian58

    The Police State is being built right under our noses at breakneck speed under a benign label known as “STATUTORY LAW”. These laws require no injury, damage, or plaintiff, and are an assault on every principle of common law. Any self-serving politician or jurisdiction can create these abominations out of thin air and attach any “punishment” they choose to them, then use them to pillage the community at their discretion. Don’t expect any of your elected “reps” or any agencies of “law” to change things, and here’s why. In 1934, FDR declared a state of national emergency (proclamation 2040, look it up) which effectively suspended the common law (Constitution) and invoked Admiralty (martial) law, which has never been rescinded. Only Admiralty law allows for a law compelling performance and a fine for not doing so. Nearly ALL present day law is statutory in nature and if you check your local arrest records, will find that nearly all “arrests” are for statutory violations. Welcome to the police state, and you can thank FDR.

  • Dean C

    The purpose of the State police in Pennsylvania and the local police in Berks county Pa. is…….Issue speeding tickets ,so they can be paid their salaries ,so they can keep their jobs … so they can write more tickets ,,…so they can pay their salaries and keep their jobs ,so they can write more tickets so they can pay their salaries, so they can keep their jobs, so they can write more tickets…. I don’t know how they face themselves in the mirror without puking … Organized robbery to the extreme..extortion,and lying under oath also.

    • Libertarian58

      A perfect example of statutory law being (ab)used as a “cash cow” for “government”. Now add in nearly all the rest of “traffic” violations, “drug” laws, etc and the real picture begins to emerge; BILLIONS of dollars rifled from the pockets of the people every year. And they’re throwing US in jail??

  • Iron Angel

    The lady threw her trash in a trash can and got a fine? What the H is that? I know, don’t tell me!!!!! It’s a d- police state?

  • Jay

    Time magazine’s cover story shows the U.S. Constitution and asks, “Does it still matter?” Reading this story, we kept waiting for Emmanuel Goldstein to show up for the Two Minutes of Hate. It was difficult to discern whether we were reading Time, or Orwells’ 1984.

    It portrays the Constitution as an outmoded document that we should ignore to whatever extent is expedient to pursue someone’s vision of a better society: “We cannot let the Constitution become an obstacle to a future with a sensible health care system, a globalized economy, and evolving sense of civil and political rights.”

    The story shows all sorts of poll questions that present a false choice, such as, “The 14th Amendment says that any person born in the U.S. automatically becomes a U.S. citizen… Should [it] be revised?” The Citizenship Clause says no such thing, because it adds that anyone “not subject to the jurisdiction” of the U.S. is not a citizen.

    That’s why children of foreign ambassadors, prisoner soldiers and heads of state born here do not become citizens. The question is how broad that “jurisdiction” clause is. Could Congress exclude illegal aliens? It’s an active debate in legal circles, with no clear answer.

    Instead, the questions should have included: “Are you more interested in the Constitution today that you were four years ago?” “Do you agree or disagree with candidates discussing the Constitution more in their campaign speeches this year?” “Are you now aware that the Constitution only vests the federal government with power of specific areas of life, leaving the states sovereign to decide all other issues?”

    Or questions on enduring constitutional principles. “Do you agree with the Supreme Court’s 1803 pronouncement that any law contrary to the Constitution is null and void?” “Every government officer (including every judge) takes an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Should they apply its original meaning to current challenges?”

    Does the Constitution still matter? Look at huge crowds of Americans cheering at rallies, whether it’s a spending protest or a pro-life rally. It matters to them, and they vote.

    The story was so riddled with distortions that it obscured its message. For example, it says we must raise the debt ceiling because, “the idea that we can default on our debt is not only reckless; it’s probably unconstitutional.” It twists a provision from the 14th Amendment that has nothing to do with the debt ceiling.

    The reality is, revenue government collects every month so vastly exceeds our debt payments that we could easily meet our monthly obligations. We would just have to cut discretionary spending on other programs. But it’s deceptive to suggest that not raising the ceiling automatically causes default, and it’s wrong to suggest it’s unconstitutional.

    The most disappointing part of the article mischaracterizes the Obamacare legal fight. It says Obamacare’s individual mandate requiring you to buy health insurance is constitutional because government takes your money in taxes and requires you to buy car insurance.


    • DaveH

      Wow, the Huffington Post carrying a pro-Constitution article. That’s a surprise, a pleasant one.

  • Revolt against the government?

    I would not have given that chump anything. I would have threatened him that if he put one hand on me he would have a really big problem then.What an idiot.

  • Jay

    There is a long and sordid tradition of trying to socialise children by scaring them. The aim of such socialisation-through-fear is twofold: firstly, to get children to conform to the scaremongers’ values; secondly, to use children to influence, or at least to contain, their parents’ behaviour.

    When I was a schoolchild in Stalinist Hungary, we were frequently warned about the numerous threats facing our glorious regime. I also recall that we were encouraged to lecture our errant parents about the new wonderful values being promoted by our brave, wise leaders. The Big Brothers of the 1940s saw children as tools of moral blackmail and social control. Today, in the twenty-first century, scaremongers see children in much the same way, exploiting their natural concern with the wonders of life to promote a message of shrill climate alarmism.

    If you want to know how it works, watch the official opening video of the Copenhagen summit on climate change (see below). Titled ‘Please Help The World’, the four-minute film opens with happy children laughing and playing on swings. A sudden outburst of rain forces them all to rush for cover. The message is clear: the climate threatens our way of life. It then cuts to a young girl who is anxiously watching one TV news broadcaster after another reporting on impending environmental catastrophes.

    Then we see the young girl tucked into bed, sweetly asleep as she embraces her toy polar bear… but suddenly we’re drawn into her nightmare. She’s on a parched and eerie landscape; she looks frightened and desolate; suddenly the dry earth cracks and she runs in terror towards the shelter of a distant solitary tree. She drops her toy polar bear in a newly formed chasm and yells and screams as she holds on to the tree for dear life. The video ends with groups of children pleading with us: ‘Please help the world.’ You get the picture.

    Although this video is a product of the gathering at Copenhagen, it is typical of the kind of propaganda that is constantly directed at children these days. In a world where moral education seems to be exhausted, where teachers are reluctant to judge or to explain the difference between right and wrong, environmentalism has become one of the few values that educators feel comfortable with. Which is why environmentalism and its values now saturate the school curriculum in Britain and some other countries, too.


    • Dan az
    • Dan az
      • Jay

        Dan, thank you for the two links.

        You stated: This is our new world hows it look?

        Well, it looks kind of ass-backwards, if truth be told. I suspect the despotic, morally and intellectually bereft, social engineers presently at the helm, will enjoy a certain measure of success, albeit brief, as history has proven and shown, time and again, that this sort of insanity and madness cannot be sustained!

        • Dan az

          I think you may find this interesting its a new law that will go into effect on the 15th of this month.

          • Dan az

            Sorry I can’t believe I just did it again! :(

          • Al Sieber

            Dan, thanks for the link, they’ll have a hard time catching me. it’ll make it a lot more interesting.

          • Dan az

            Hey Al
            Just remember how you get a gopher out of a whole!Make sure you have big fans in there!And get a 50 cal,it should hold them back.

          • DaveH

            Here are the votes for that bill in the House:

          • DaveH

            And here are the votes in the Senate:

            Note how difficult the Senate site makes it to know the total numbers of Democrat votes and Republican votes. Why?
            55 Democrats voted FOR the Bill, only 1 voted against it (Feingold).
            38 Republicans voted AGAINST the Bill, only 3 voted for it (Brown, Collins, Snowe).
            Note the overwhelming support for the bill by the Democrats who when outnumbered tout “bipartisanship”, but pay no attention whatever to “bipartisanship” when they control the majority. Colossal hypocrites.

          • Al Sieber

            Dan, there’s always gas masks, but we have rattle snakes in the mine and it goes thousands of feet with a lot of hidden exits, and a few bobby traps. and most people are afraid to go under ground.

        • DaveH

          It lasts only until they run out of other peoples’ money.

          • Dan az

            Dave and Al
            Did you guys see what happened to phoenix on the 5th? check this out!

          • DaveH

            Yeah, Dan, they kept interrupting my Freedom Watch (Judge Napolitano) broadcast to show us the dust storm.
            You need to get a TV just to watch the Judge, and John Stossel also. You would love Judge Napolitano.
            I forgot that you said you watch them on the Computer. Good enough.

          • Dan az

            I wished that we could convince him to take Holders position when he gets kicked to the curb.Can you imagine what he could do? :)

          • DaveH

            Judge Napolitano would be the last person Obama would want for his Attorney General. In fact, I fear for his life, being so outspoken as he is. I imagine that Obama would like nothing better than to shut him up.

            We can see right here on this board what happens if you dare to speak the truth.

          • Al Sieber

            Holy sheep $hit Dan, I don’t have a TV and missed it, thanks for the link.

  • LittleBlackPresbo

    ” This is the garbage man & you’re under arrest”! LOL
    What’s next, armed janitors bursting into your toilet stall & arresting you because your excreata doesn’t meet department of sanitation regulations regarding quantity & composition ?!
    What insanity! There simply must be some way to reverse this hideous trend.

    • DaveH

      Anything’s possible, Little.
      Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.

  • Jay

    The masterpiece that killed George Orwell
    n 1946 Observer editor David Astor lent George Orwell a remote Scottish farmhouse in which to write his new book, Nineteen Eighty-Four. It became one of the most significant novels of the 20th century. Here, Robert McCrum tells the compelling story of Orwell’s torturous stay on the island where the author, close to death and beset by creative demons, was engaged in a feverish race to finish the book.

    “It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.”

    Sixty years after the publication of Orwell’s masterpiece, Nineteen Eighty-Four, that crystal first line sounds as natural and compelling as ever. But when you see the original manuscript, you find something else: not so much the ringing clarity, more the obsessive rewriting, in different inks, that betrays the extraordinary turmoil behind its composition.

    Probably the definitive novel of the 20th century, a story that remains eternally fresh and contemporary, and whose terms such as “Big Brother”, “doublethink” and “newspeak” have become part of everyday currency, Nineteen Eighty-Four has been translated into more than 65 languages and sold millions of copies worldwide, giving George Orwell a unique place in world literature.

    “Orwellian” is now a universal shorthand for anything repressive or totalitarian, and the story of Winston Smith, an everyman for his times, continues to resonate for readers whose fears for the future are very different from those of an English writer in the mid-1940s.

    The circumstances surrounding the writing of Nineteen Eighty-Four make a haunting narrative that helps to explain the bleakness of Orwell’s dystopia. Here was an English writer, desperately sick, grappling alone with the demons of his imagination in a bleak Scottish outpost in the desolate aftermath of the second world war. The idea for Nineteen Eighty-Four, alternatively, “The Last Man in Europe”, had been incubating in Orwell’s mind since the Spanish civil war. His novel, which owes something to Yevgeny Zamyatin’s dystopian fiction We, probably began to acquire a definitive shape during 1943-44, around the time he and his wife, Eileen adopted their only son, Richard. Orwell himself claimed that he was partly inspired by the meeting of the Allied leaders at the Tehran Conference of 1944. Isaac Deutscher, an Observer colleague, reported that Orwell was “convinced that Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt consciously plotted to divide the world” at Tehran.

    Orwell had worked for David Astor’s Observer since 1942, first as a book reviewer and later as a correspondent. The editor professed great admiration for Orwell’s “absolute straightforwardness, his honesty and his decency”, and would be his patron throughout the 1940s. The closeness of their friendship is crucial to the story of Nineteen Eighty-Four.


  • Clark

    Sickening….notice how these stories are coming out of NY and CA. NYC is one of the Mecca’s of the ill-Liberal Left. These goons will stop at nothing until they have their police state. And the lady who just wanted to get coffee will most likely vote for the same idiots who wrote and enacted this law or policy…if one really exists. But this is the same city that is rationing out toilet paper and that’s another article which can be on the NY Post website.

  • Mad Max

    That happens when your government owns you!

    OsiXs (Common Sense 3.1)

  • Jeff

    I think I would’ve refused any demands of a garbageman and walked away. If he tried to physically restrain me, I would resist, then fight back, then sue the pants off the city of New York. Plus I would’ve called 911 to see if the jackass was for real.

    Of course, little old ladies would seem easy prey for these garbageman Nazis to terrorize. They can’t think fast, would be unprepared, couldn’t argue, and there was no way they could physically resist or defend themselves. What scum, these dirtbags are to pick on little old ladies.

    What is next? Are we really going to be living in George Orwell’s 1984? It seems since Obambi was elected, we are well on that slippery slope down to that.

    • Al Sieber

      Me too Jeff, kicked him in the balls or poked his eyes out.

  • Jay

    In less than a week two billionaires have joined the anti-teacher “Billionaires Club”: a group of ultra-wealthy individuals hell-bent on destroying public education and teachers’ unions. The newest members of the club are Oprah Winfrey and Facebook founder Mark Zuckerburg.

    Winfrey has used her show — twice in one week — as a platform against public education. She first hosted billionaire Bill Gates to discuss his “philanthropy” in education, as he promoted the new anti-public education propaganda film Waiting for Superman.

    Waiting for Superman is a “documentary” focused on the types of anti-teacher school “reforms” desired by the Billionaires Club, who have used their tremendous wealth to blackmail school districts and states to institute their policies.

    For example, the Facebook founder’s donation of $100 million to the Newark, New Jersey school district will almost certainly require — according to The New York Times — that the school institute these reforms, much like Bill Gates’ donation of $100 million to the Tampa Hillsborough County School District — and the $90 million to the Memphis school district — had the same types of strings attached.

    What are the conditions for receiving this “charity” of billionaires? It’s the same demands for receiving money from the federal government under Obama’s badly-named Race to the Top program: creating more privately administered — or for profit — Charter schools; connecting teacher’s pay with student test scores (merit pay); undermining the seniority of teachers; and other tricks to dis-empower teachers and public education.

    Diane Ravitch, a former corporate-school reformer, has now dedicated her time to exposing the motives of the super-rich and their new-found interest in “reforming” public education. In her book The Death and Life of the Great American School System, Ravitch entitles a chapter “The Billionaires Boys Club.” On the radio show Democracy Now! Ravitch summarized the chapter:

    “The Billionaires Boys Club is a discussion of how we’re in a new era of the [billionaire] foundations and their relation to education. We have never in the history of the United States had foundations with the wealth of the Gates Foundation and some of the other billionaire foundations — the Walton Family Foundation, The Broad Foundation. And these three foundations — Gates, Broad and Walton — are committed now to charter schools and to evaluating teachers by test scores. And that’s now the policy of the U.S. Department of Education. We have never seen anything like this, where foundations had the ambition to direct national educational policy, and in fact are succeeding.”

    There are some key motives for billionaires to jump in a coalition with this singular focus, none of them well meaning.

    1) There are unknown billions in profits to be made in privatizing public education, either in the private administration of schools, curriculum companies, or wholly for-profit schools. There has been much talk in the investor world of this new “market.” In addition, the New York Daily News reported: “Wealthy investors and major banks have been making windfall profits by using a little-known federal tax break to finance new charter-school construction. The program, the New Markets Tax Credit, is so lucrative that a lender who uses it can almost double his money in seven years.” (May 5, 2010).

  • http://policestate jeb bush

    hello sheeple, here are some verry importiant movies every one should wach… 1 Shadow Government 2 invisible empire 3 united we fall 4 endgame 5 the oboma decption 6 the fall of the republic 7 police state part 1 2 3 8 martial law rise of the police staaate 9 terrorstorm 10 america destroyed by design 11 matrix of evil 12 camp fema. all of these movies are free on youtube.oh yea you all must see what in the world are they spraying=cem trails.their are many other edgacational movies that are FREE on youtube. im beging you all to wach these. Their is a master plan to depopulate 80% of us by the 2020 the U N has agenda 21 on the internet so please people dont be sheep we need to band togeather to stop this EVIL plan. it dosnt matter who is presediant they work for the federal reserve. and you wach and see Rick Perry will be our next pres and savor.its been pland by the buldaburg. i know its hard to take in but do your home work. and please have a good weekend

    • Jay

      Thanks for the list jeb, but since you are obviously new here you may not be aware that most of us here are familiar with the videos mentioned. Also, thanks for the insult “hello sheeple”! Your assumption reveals a great deal about you. Lack of inner dialogue perhaps?

  • http://fox walter

    America! Fight back. We out number them. Some of us will not survive the struggle but our children and this country will.

  • http://PersonalLiberty Joanne

    Well, the time is FAST approaching for B Hussein O to implement something he was thinking about with his ACORN thugs: give them brown uniforms and let them patrol our (beginning with) city streets and “help” the police with community needs. This attack on good Americans will definitely begin in inner cities, especially those with liberal voting records (remember Weiner?)and groups of non-learned people with questionable undersanding of the Constitution. Has anyone found out who authorized this police action? To all readers: remember to be active in voicing your well-stated opinions as I’ve read in your replys. God Bless You All!

  • DaveH
  • DaveH

    We need to draft this guy for our Congress:

    • Jay

      Dave, that was awesome! What an excellent, intelligent, and gutsy speaker.

      • Kate 8

        I’d love to see someone in our Congress have the guts to address OUR president that way.

        But alas, they’re all terrified to speak against him.

        • Jay

          Kate, either terrified, blackmailed, or bribed!

        • DaveH

          Indeed, it is the nature of people, especially of politicians, to use emotional and illogical but plausible-sounding diatribes (to the under-educated) that they can muster to censor those who ideas they don’t want exposed to others. We have examples of that kind of behavior even on this board which is dedicated to liberty.

  • chuckb

    too bad we don’t have the caliber of this man as speaker of the house for the u.s. congress or better yet, president. daniel hannan has been on fox news several times on one of the political shows and we could really use his caliber in the white house.

    • Jay

      100% dittos chuckb!

  • DaveH
  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    As for the sanitation police in NYC, that should be no surprise. The city’s also complaining about residents who walk a few blocks to dispose of household trash at public litter baskets. But can you really blame the residents?? Even if they use curbside disposal in front of their houses, they still risk fines if they don’t understand and/or follow rules of proper disposal. Let’s put the blame where it belongs – on these stupid recycling laws enacted over the past few decades. Recycling is stupid, and in many ways costly. I think my biggest mistake was moving back to NYC 6 years ago. But even in Florida, the environmentalist wackos move down there like locusts. E.g., I worked near an incinerator plant which converts garbage to energy. But I saw some environmentalist wackos protesting the plant, and demanding recycling. I only wished I had a voice amplifying mega-phone so I could say things like: “We don’t care how you do it up North”; or as Rush Limbaugh suggested: “If you environmentalist wackos want to cut waste, then button up and find real jobs like everyone else!!” I’d also love to yell out: “All you environmentalist wackos …. Try eating recycled food, or drinking recycled beer!!”

  • jopa

    Do you guys realize why we just celebrated the Fourth of July.We did not want to live under the rule of law of the British and the Queen and now you want to promote British rule in America.Sure the guy gave a good speech as some Republicans do here but it is their actions that messed this country up.It is apparent Dave, Jay and Chuckb do not qualify to wear the patriot shirt of America.When you go to bed at night I can just picture you all chanting “God save the Queen”.

    • Jay

      jopa, as usual, you’re an idiot and you suffer from “reading comprehension”. In response to Dave’s link, no one expressed the sentiment or desire to live under British rule, as you idiotically misread, rather, that there should be in Congress such as posses the character, intelligence and intestinal fortitude of Daniel Hannan! Again, you are a mental midget!!!

    • chuckb

      jopa, when i go to bed at night i chant “god help jopa” he knoweth not what he saith.

      • Jay


  • coal miner

    Kate8,Al Sieber, and JeffH,

    Read this!

    Secrets of America’s Founding Fathers

    With all the controversy catalyzed by the enormously popular The DaVinci Code and its revelations of secret, metaphysical societies to which DaVinci, Isaac Newton and other famous visionaries of the time belonged, we thought might be useful as we approach America’s Independence Day to explore the metaphysical backgrounds and secret societies of our Founding Fathers. Here are excerpts from extensive research we did for our 1994 book on Spiritual Politics:

    The Deeper, Secret Roots of America’s Founding Fathers
    © 1994 Corinne McLaughlin and Gordon Davidson

    The most intriguing hint about the secret, metaphysical dimensions of the founding of America is not actually hidden at all–in fact it can be seen in millions of places today–on every one dollar bill, which displays the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States. Here is the All Seeing Eye of God or Spirit, placed above a pyramid–a symbol representing spiritual vision that is found in many secret societies, including the Rosicrucians and the Freemasons.

    The pyramid was used by some ancient cultures, such as the Egyptian and the Mayan, as an initiation chamber. The All-Seeing Eye seems to be placed as a capstone at the top of the pyramid. If you stand at the base of the pyramid, there are many different viewpoints, depending on which of the four sides you are standing on and looking out from. But at the top, all the viewpoints unite, because there we see with the Eye of Spirit. What an important message for us today! The various religious and political groups stand at the base of each side of the pyramid, fighting for their limited view, when they need to climb higher to see the more inclusive, higher vision from the top—the radiant Eye of Spirit.

    The reverse of the Great Seal was minted in 1789 but it wasn’t used until 1933 when President Roosevelt put it on the dollar bill at the urging of Secretary of Agriculture Henry Wallace, who was a follower of Nicholas Roerich, founder of the Agni Yoga Society. The first Congress appointed Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Ben Franklin to design this Seal, and major revisions were added by Charles Thomson and William Barton. The United States is the only country today with a two-sided national seal. Isn’t it time to pay more attention to what’s on the reverse of this Seal? It’s a powerful symbol of the soul of America.

    Several intriguing Latin phrases can also be found on the Great Seal and the dollar bill: Annuit Coeptus (“God Fa­vors our Undertakings”) and Novus Ordo Seclorum (“The New Order of the Ages”), as our Founding Fathers were visionaries planning for a new age. E Pluribus Unum (“Out of Many, One”) not only reflects the unity of the original thirteen states, but on a deeper level reflects the One Life, the Divine Presence, which pervades all life and creates unity in diversity.

    The eagle on the front side of the Seal represents spiritual vision as the eagle is the only creature which looks directly into the sun. In one foot the eagle holds a sheaf of arrows, symbol of war, and in the other the olive branch of peace. Unlike in traditional heraldry, the bird looks to the West, to peace, rather than to the East and to war.

    The number thirteen is used thirteen times in the Great Seal–in the number of stars, clouds around the stars, stripes, arrows, leaves and berries in the olive branches, feathers in the tail, layers of stones in the pyramid, number of letters in E Pluribus Unum and in Annuit Coeptus, and the number of letters (three times thirteen) in the title: “The Coat of Arms of the United States of America.”

    Thirteen is not only the number of the original colonies, but more significantly is the number of transformation, as it adds the catalyzing number one to the completed cy­cle of the magical twelve—for example, the twelve disciples plus Christ, the twelve signs of the zodiac plus the sun, the twelve knights of the round table plus King Arthur. For better or worse, the United States has had a major trans­forming role in the world–sometimes positively, as with her exportation of democracy, and sometimes negatively, as with her exportation of an exces­sively materialistic life-style.

    Francis Bacon

    The seeds for America’s founding were planted much earlier by the wise initiates of many cultures, from ancient Egypt and Greece to latter-day England and France. Francis Bacon wrote of America before its founding as “the new Atlantis” in his book by that name. He was also a member of the company that founded colonies in Virginia and the Caro­linas.

    Bacon, known as the “Father of Modern Science,” is thought by many researchers to be the founder of modern Freemasonry and the head of the Rosicrucian Order, a secret metaphysical society which taught the inner laws of nature, spiritual principles for self-transformation, and keys for creating a better world.

    George Washington

    The role of Divine guidance in America’s founding was acknowledged by George Washington himself in his first inaugural address: “No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of Providential agency.”[1]

    Washington believed he was constantly guided by higher sources in direct­ing his troops to outsmart the British. He was often called clairvoyant be­cause it seemed he could look into the future and predict troop movements with amazing accuracy. According to a report by Anthony Sherman, who was with Washington at Valley Forge where the incident occurred, Washington had a vision of an Angelic presence. He was shown the birth, progress, and destiny of the United States in three great crises where enemies within and without challenged the Union, but it persevered. He was told that “while the stars remain and the heavens send down dew upon the earth, so long shall the Republic last. The whole world united shall never be able to prevail against her. Let every child of the Republic learn to live for his God, his land, and the Union.”[2]

    Thomas Jefferson and John Adams

    There are many intriguing hints that Thomas Jefferson was a Rosicrucian (the Brotherhood of the Rosy Cross) as evidenced by a secret code he used that was known only to high initiates of the order and the fact that he designed the building of the University of Virginia in a pattern relating to a Kabbalistic metaphysical design. [3] Letters on display at Jefferson’s home at Monticello in Virginia also indicate that he was a vegetarian like the Rosicrucians of the time.

    John Adams’s forebears in England were said to belong to a sect of English Druids called the Dragons, which also included Sir Walter Raleigh and John Dee, Queen Elizabeth’s astrologer. The Dragons sought to renew the ancient wisdom of earth energies and studied the astrological procession of the equi­noxes.[4]

    Benjamin Franklin

    Benjamin Franklin published an astrological ephemeris in his Poor Richard’s Almanac and wrote an epitaph that seems to suggest he believed in reincarnation: “The Body of B. Franklin, Printer … lies here, food for worms, but the work shall not be lost; for it will appear once more, in a new and more elegant Edition, Revised and corrected by the author.”

    Franklin also published the books of Johann Conrad Biessel, who founded Ephrata in Pennsylvania, the first Rosicrucian community in the New World. Franklin visited there frequently and brought gifts.[5] This commu­nity was a focus for the spreading of the Ageless Wisdom in America, and after its disbanding, most of its metaphysical library passed into Franklin’s keeping.[6] George Washington was also a friend of the community and re­leased a prisoner at the request of one of its leaders, Peter Miller.[7]

    In addition, Franklin spoke of the “Father of Lights,” as the Rosicrucians do, and his speech to the Continental Congress reflects other Rosicrucian themes: “God governs in the affairs of men. If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?” [8] Some researchers believe that Franklin himself was secretly a Rosicrucian.[9]

    The Freemasons

    At least fifty out of the fifty-six signers of the Declaration of Indepen­dence, including John Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson, were Freemasons. Franklin and Jefferson had both been ini­tiated into a French Masonic lodge, and Washington was initiated into the Masonic Lodge of Fredericksburg, VA.[10] At the time of America’s founding, the Masonic lodges were very different from the social clubs they’ve become today. They had a strong metaphysical orientation, which developed common values and purposes among members, as well as deep bonds of loy­alty. The tradi­tional secrecy preserved in Masonic lodges allowed members to communicate and organize the American Revolution with little fear of exposure. Several significant non-American contributors to the revolution were also Masons, such as the Marquis de Lafayette of France

    The Boston Tea Party was the work of the Masons of the St. Andrews Lodge while tak­ing a “recess.”[11] Paul Revere began his famous ride after he left an adjourned meeting of a Masonic lodge.[12] Through the lodges of the Freemasons, the ideas of such Age of Enlightenment thinkers as John Locke, David Hume, Francois Ma­rie Arouet (Voltaire), and Jean Jacques Rousseau became widely dissemi­nated in the new colonies.[13] The structure of the U.S. Constitution was based on Masonic ideals, and the federalism created by the Constitution is identical to the federalism of the Grand Lodge system of Masonic govern­ment created in 1723,[14] as well as to that of the Iroquois Confederacy.

    The cornerstone of the U.S. Capitol Building was laid in a Masonic ceremony, with George Washington presiding as Grand Master. Masonic architects also laid out the city of Washington, D.C., in a meta­physical design to make the best use of the earth energies-called “ley lines,” or “dragon lines,” for creating healing or harmony. The original de­sign of Pierre-Charles L’Enfant was later modified by Washington and Jefferson to produce the specifically octagonal patterns incorporating the particular cross used by the Masonic Templars.[15]

    Just as ancient sites such as Stonehenge are aligned to the positions of the sun and moon, the same is true of the Washington Monument. For example, a line of sight for the winter solstice can be established from the top of the monument to the southeast, down Virginia Avenue. Since the physical pattern of Washington is based on sacred architecture, could it not inspire future leaders to base policies on sacred principles of governance based on the Ageless Wisdom?

    The Future

    The metaphysical traditions studied by our Founding Fathers enlightened their efforts to create a new government, and were the deeper, secret source of their wisdom and inspiration. Today this ageless wisdom is no longer secret and is widely available. Could knowledge of the metaphysical sciences help enlighten our efforts today to create a better world? Could it help us learn to actually embody “E Pluribus Unum”—“Out of Many, One” by creating a true unity in diversity? And most importantly, can we allow the All Seeing Eye of Spirit to guide our national life as our Founding Fathers (and Mothers) did?

    • Jay

      coal:Today this ageless wisdom is no longer secret and is widely available. Could knowledge of the metaphysical sciences help enlighten our efforts today to create a better world? Could it help us learn to actually embody “E Pluribus Unum”—“Out of Many, One” by creating a true unity in diversity? And most importantly, can we allow the All Seeing Eye of Spirit to guide our national life as our Founding Fathers (and Mothers) did?

      Could knowledge of the metaphysical sciences help enlighten our efforts today to create a better world?

      The answer is no, knowledge of the metaphysical sciences cannot help to create a better world?

      Could it help us learn to actually embody “E Pluribus Unum”—“Out of Many, One” by creating a true unity in diversity cannot create a true unity in diversity!

      Again, the answer is no! Why?
      Because man, without instruction and guidance from his Creator will always resort to implement a mystical, paganish religion, wherein, wisdom can only be found within himself and nature. This, is in essence, idolatry.

      But it begs the question: What then, can we deduce from man, created in the image of God, and nature, created to sustain man? Just that!

      • coal miner
        • Kate 8

          coal – I have read all of this before and, as I said earlier, judging by the occult symbolism that was placed everywhere at our founding, and the utter lack of Judeo-Christian symbolism (with rare exception), it appears to be true.

          Our founders were also elusive about their true religeous beliefs, seeming to allude to Christian leanings in order to appear acceptable to the people. Especially in the case of Washington, no one really can tell for sure where he stood by his words.

          While this all might seem very mystical and glorious, let’s not lose sight of the fact that Freemasons and Rosacrucians are worshippers of Lucifer, also known as the “Lightbearer”. And he specializes in deception, appearing as an angelic being of light and goodness.

          But the most aggregious deception of all was the hijacking of Yeshua’s teachings by the Romans, (none other than these same occultists) who incorporated them with paganism, and is still the basis of Christianity today (the Harlot and her daughters).

          It’s nearly impossible to glean Truth in this world of deception. When we come to realize that EVERYTHING we’ve ever been taught is part of this deception, intended to keep us forever enslaved (without even realizing it), then, just maybe, we can become receptive to revelation from Divine Truth.

          Is this even possible? I don’t know. The very nature of manifest form is illusion.

          I suspect that all of these mystical Luciferian secret societies are just another distraction for man’s intrigue. After all, humanity loves the pursuit of “secret knowledge”, and believing in special powers not available to the uninitiated.

          I have studied these “secrets” during my life, and I prefer not to be distracted by them but, rather, to keep my heart aimed toward the Real Deal. Will I find it? All I know is that Scripture assures that if we seek, we will find.

          • coal miner

            Kate 8

            Lucifer in the Bible is not Satan or the Devil.lucifer in the Bible is the morning star Venus.Most people think Satan and Devil are the same. They are not either,ask any jew.Satan is the daughter of God, she represents justice,truth and nature. She is often called the accuser, on the other hand,the Devil is God’s evil brother.Some verisons of the ancient scriptures refer God as the author of good and evil.You do know The Bible is a myth itself.

          • coal miner


          • Jay

            Yikes coal, you may have gone off the deep end!

          • Kate 8

            coal – There are so many versions of these stories that, once again, it just goes to prove my point: it’s all meant to deceive.

            Lucifer is generally regarded as having been the most beautiful of all the angels, having authority over music and the arts. But he wanted to be like God and rule over mankind and the Earth, and thus was fallen from Heaven.

            Perhaps he was lord of Nephilim. Who knows. The OT also says, much to the chagrin of many Christians, that God is Creator of both good and evil. Well, He would have to be, wouldn’t He, if in the beginning there was only God.

            Scriptures contain many levels of truth, and says many times “for those with ears to hear”. That would imply that the meaning is veiled, for those who have understanding of the deeper meaning.

            I know where you are coming from, so I don’t want to debate you over it. Suffice it to say that, while many believe that they have the right answers, I doubt if any do. Belief itself stands in the way of true revelation.

            At the end of the day, God alone with judge our hearts. Most of us will undoubtedly be found wanting.

            But I readily admit that the more I learn, the less I know.

          • coal miner

            Kate 8
            Not the deep end,but the truth

            The earliest gospel disposes of the forty days in the wilderness, the wild animals, the temptation by the Devil and the ministrations by angels in one verse. Let us not forget what we have already learned about the Darkness be equated with Evil and the word play: D-evil or the Devil. Now understanding this let us continue and see what we shall see.

            The gospel writer of the Gospel of John does not mention any of this. Yet Luke and Matthew give details of the fasting and the temptation with Jesus offered the world from the top of a mountain. By coincidence:

            Elijah fasted on Horeb in the wilderness for forty days;
            Moses did the same on Sinai.
            Zoroaster was tempted by the Devil in the wilderness;
            Buddha was also;
            Jupiter was led by Pan (the Devil) to the top of a mountain called the Pillar of Heaven whence he could see the countries of the world;
            Forty is one of those mystical numbers that pop up in old religions: there were forty days of sacrifice in the Persian Salutation to Mithras; forty days of mourning in the mysteries of the goddess Persephone; the deluge lasted forty days, etc. The story is introduced to establish Jesus as a great leader, superior even to Moses. Furthermore the offer of the kingship of the world by the devil was intended by Gentile Christians as a rebuttal of the idea that Jesus was a Messiah in the Jewish mould who would become a world ruler – that is what the Devil offered him and he refused it.

            The temptation by, and victory over the evil one, the D-Evil, or whether Mara or Satan, is nothing more than primitive man’s personification of the Sun and the victory of the Sun over the clouds of storm and darkness. In ancient mythology, all heroes of light were opposed by the “Old Serpent,” the Devil, symbolized by Serpents, Dragos, Sphinxes and other monsters. The Serpent was, among the ancient Eastern nations, the symbol of Evil, of Winter, of Darkness and of Death. The Serpents was never understood to be “literal” in these Eastern nations.

            The Serpent also symbolized “the dark cloud,” which by harboring the rays of the Sun, preventing its shining, and therefore, is apparently attempting to destroy it!

            Now, when one personifies the Sun, we have the picture of “evil” (Serpent) trying to destroy the Savior.

            The Serpent is one of the chief mystic personifications of the Rig-Veda, under the names of Ahi, Suchna, and others. The Serpents of various nations represented the Clouds, the enemy of the Sun, keeping back the fructifying rays. Indra struggles victoriously against him, and spreads life on the earth, with the shading warmth of the Father of Life, the Creator, the Sun.

            Buddha, the Lord and Savior, was described as a superhuman organ of light, to whom a superhuman organ of darkness Mara, the Evil Serpent, was opposed. He, like Christ Jesus, resisted the temptations of this evil one, and is represented sitting on a serpent, as if its conqueror (Bunsen, Angel-Messiah, p. 39).

            Chrishna also overcame the evil one, and is represented “bruising the head of the serpent,” and standing upon it (Asiaatic Researchers, and vol. ii of Higgins Anacalypsis).

            In Egyptian Mythology, one of the names of he god-Sun was Ra. He had an adversary who was called Apap, represented in the form of a serpent (Renouf, Hibbert Lectures, p. 109).

            Horus, the Egyptian incarnate god, the Mediator, Redeemer and Savior, is represented in Egyptian art as overcoming the Evil Serpent, and standing triumphantly upon him (Bonwick, Egyptian Belief, p. 158; Monumental Christianity, p. 402).

            Osiris, Ormuzd, Mithras, Apollo, Bacchus, Hercules, Indra, CEdipus, Quetzalcoatle, and many others Sun-gods, overcame the Evil One, and are represented in the above described manner (Cox, Tales of Ancient Greece, p. xxvii; Cox, Aryan Mythology, vol. ii, p. 129; Baring-Gould’s Curious Myths, p. 256; Bunsen, Angel-Messiah, p. x; Kingsborough, Mexican Antiquities, vol. vi. p. 176).

            Growing up in obscurity, the day comes when he makes himself known, tries himself in his first battlers with his gloomy foes, and shines without a rival. He is rife for his destines mission, but is met by the demon of storm, who runs to dispute with him in the duel of the the storm. In this struggle again darkness the beneficent hero remains the conqueror, the gloomy army of Mara, or Satan, broken and rent, is scattered; the Apearas, daughters of the demon, the last light vapors which float in the heaven, try in vain to clasp and retain the vanquisher; he disengages himself from their embraces, repulses them; they writhe, lose form, and vanish.

            Free from every obstacle, and from every adversary, he sets in motion across space his disk with a thousand rays, having avenged the attempts of his eternal foe. He appears then in all his glory, and in his sovereign splendor; the god has attained the summit of his course, it is the moment of triumph (Doane, Bible Myths, p. 482-483).

            To understand this we must regress to what we learned from a prior article.

            These “destruction myths” (the life of the Sun/Son was sought by the Darkness which was threatened by the coming Light) find their origin, like most Christian doctrine, in the stars. The new Son (Son) is born in the winter as we have seen. The astrological sign of Capricorn represents the lord of Hades. This is the Cardinal sign of Winter (opposition, Satan, Saturn). Winter takes control (at the Winter Solstice on Dec. 22), and within three days of mounting his throne, he is challenged by the Sun (Son) of the Father (Sun) that he, or some other ruffians captured (at the autumnal equinox) and has finally slain at the winter solstice. So now the king (Winter, Darkness) is worried and knows that he must murder the Sun (Son) before he gains the strength of his Father (Sun). The guardians of the Sun (Son) know that he can not withstand the power of the Winter (Satan, Herod), so they shield him (Son) and hide him till his time of glory approaches (he reaches maturity) (Jabbar, The Astrological Foundation of the Christ Myth, p. 34).

            The Sun (Son) will be mature enough to withstand the powers of Satan after he reaches the age of thirty. This Thirty does not mean years, it means degrees of arc. The Sun is born right after the King of Darkness takes his throne, in the sign of Capricorn. This king (Herod) is determined to kill all opposition to his power within the nether world. But Capricorn (Herod) will die after thirty years (degrees), because each zodiacal sign is limited to thirty degrees of arc. Therefore after the death of Herod (Capricorn), the Sun (Son) comes out from hiding to begin his mission, he is thirty years (degrees) old. But even though the chief rival (Herod/Capricorn) of the Sun(Son) has died, the Sun is yet within the domain of Satan, under the equinoxes. He, the Sun, must face more struggles and temptations as he climbs and fights his way to his glory, at the vernal equinox (Jabbar, The Astrological Foundation of the Christ Myth, p. 35).

            Now, let us pick up the story.

            The guardians were successful in protecting the infant (Sun, Son) but still he has not reached his glory (the vernal equinox) i.e. the resurrection of Spring. The Sun (Son) at this point (the thirtieth degree of Capricorn) has matured (survived to 30 years (degrees) from his birth) but he (Sun, Son) is still within the realm of winter (Satan). Winter (Satan) knows that he cannot kill the Sun (Son) at this point of maturity, therefore he (Satan) seeks to torment the Sun (Son), tempt him, cajole him to prevent the Sun (Son) from escaping his (Satan’s/Darkness’) domain. The torment, or temptation is described as lasting for forty days. The ancients, in this case, used the term days as a metaphor for degrees. The sign of Capricorn (the birth place of the Sun (Son) lies at minus 16 degrees south declination i.e. sixteen degrees below the celestial equator. The sign of Aries (the vernal equinox, the birth place of spring, where Christ enters his glory and the Sun rises above the equator signaling the coming of Spring and life) lies at plus twenty-four degrees north declination. Add this twenty-four degrees to the sixteen degrees (position of Capricorn below the celestial equator) and you get forty degrees (the ancients told the story as 40 days to the masses). This is the distance, relevant to the position of the two Cardinal signs, Capricorn and Aries, that the Sun (Son) must climb, struggle, suffer, be tempted, before he (The Sun) escapes the clutches of Satan (Winter). This term forty represents the struggle of the Sun (Son) in the wilderness of Darkness, climbing and overcoming torments toward salvation and life of Spring. With Israel, it was forty years in the wilderness, and with Noah, it was forty days of torrential rains, but regardless, the symbology is the same; the plight of the young Sun in the valley of Amenta, the Nether World, fighting his way to cross the forsaken territory (wilderness) between the zodiacal sign of the winter solstice (Capricorn) and the Spring equinox (Aries) (Jabbar, The Astrological Foundation of the Christ Myth, p. 36-37).

            The bottom line for you, if you are a Christian, is that there are many “myths” which have been added to the life of Jesus in the New Testament by Gentiles who, because they forsook Biblical Judaism and the Jew’s enlightenment, remained in Darkness and they spread this darkness of ignorance, superstition, and falsehoods where ever they went. Now you go to their churches where you inherit such fables as truth.

            I hope you have the reason and sense enough to at least see the evidence for yourself and ask yourself if these “harmless” fables are the extent of such error as found in the New Testament. I assure you it is not. Most who read our articles have never investigated such materials for themselves and they simply do not know about such things. It is our hope at Bet Emet that what you see in these articles will cause you to seriously investigate other teachings in the New Testament as well which I assure you affect your relationship with God which you have been taught in error and again at this time in your life are not aware. We stand ready to help those who truly want the truth about God and His revelation before they die.

          • Kate 8

            coal – Thanks. I am familiar with all of those stories and how they relate to the Biblical son.

            Have you also considered that our galaxy, the Milky Way, is portrayed as a serpent swallowing its tail? Maybe this galaxy is the Wheel of Incarnation, the serpent representing the illusion and deception of manifest existence. Satan, the serpent, continually strives to convince us that this is the only reality, that God is not real, and thus keeps us eternally trapped in the cycles of manifestation.

            And yes, Venus is the bright and morning star. The occult places great importance on the transits of Venus, especially the extremely rare transit across the sun taking place in 2012.

            These things are all hinted at in Scripture, but are ignored by established religion. For those with ears to hear.

            There is no doubt that the message of Yeshua is a timeless one, and a way of living from the heart in order to return our fragmented beings
            to oneness with ourselves and our Creator. He was offered the choice that tempts us all…whether to put our faith and trust in manifest illusion or in the only real truth, which is Spirit.

            All of life is myth. Maybe after chasing down endless rabbit holes, that is the whole point of discovery after all.

          • Jay

            Very well said, Kate8. By way of deception is the key strategy of the “enemy of our souls”. But deception by way of similarity, close resemblance, look alike, and the ultimate goal? To achieve a familiar face and hoping no-one will notice “the strange walk”! Question: If i were to hand you a jar that contained a flawless diamond, and then added 999 fake diamonds, that looked alike, had the exact same shape, weight, and lustre, then shook the entire mixture, how then would you be able to pick out the true and flawless diamond? The flawless diamond represents the “Truth”, or the “Word of God”, therefore, one must be known by God, and one must know His word, and know it WELL!!!

          • Karolyn

            Thanks coal miner!

          • Jay

            Dr. John Ankerberg, Dr. John Weldon

            In America, New Age influence continues unabated. According to popular New Age leader Marilyn Ferguson in the February 16, 1992 Los Angeles Times, sociologists at UC Santa Bar- bara estimated that “as many as 12 million Americans could be considered active participants [in the New Age movement], and another 30 million are avidly interested. If all of these people were brought together in a church-like organization, it would be the third-largest religious de- nomination in America.” Ferguson was reviewing a book by Michael D’Antonio, Heaven on Earth, which discusses the influence of the New Age movement. To further illustrate, according to Dr. J. Gordon Melton’s New Age Almanac, there are literally hundreds of American educa- tional institutions that now offer degrees or programs on New Age subjects.

            Our Encyclopedia of New Age Beliefs (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 1996), which evaluates a variety of New Age practices and philosophies from a biblical, philosophical, scientific and/or occult perspective also illustrates New Age influence.

            New Age teachings and practices are characteristically spiritistic . Unfortunately, these are opposed to men’s best interests, especially as those interests are divinely revealed in the Bible. As we documented in The Coming Darkness: Confronting Occult Deception (Harvest House, 1993), involvement in spiritism and other forms of the occult is hazardous on an individual level (physically, psychologically, spiritually) and on a social level (ethically, economically, criminally).

            Thus, the New Age movement is certainly not without serious cultural implications. As Dr. Carl Raschke (Ph.D. Harvard), Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Denver, points out, even in subtle ways, New Age influence is consequential:
            Lurking in back of New Age semantics, which become compressed into such flagrant, pseudo-religious word mysteries as “empowerment,” “wholeness,” or “planetary awareness,” are verbal subliminal incendiary devises that can be used towards just about all the benchmarks of moral authority, logical inference, and critical scrutiny that distinguish a culture.

            Brooks Alexander, co-founder of the Spiritual Counterfeits Project in Berkeley, California and one of the modern authorities on the New Age movement, was correct when he discussed why the biblical ban on New Age and other forms of spiritism is so uncompromising:

            [Spiritism] is ultimately poisonous to our souls, regardless of how sweet it tastes or how innocent it seems. The dominant theme of the Old Testament’s ban on spiritism is defilement. The spirits are evil spirits—though, needless to say, they do not appear with fangs bared,… and hidden agendas displayed…. Interestingly, the Bible levies its judgment against spiritism at two levels. It treats spiritism as a symptom of social decline as well as an act of personal culpability.

            All sin provokes God’s judgment. Advanced or developed sin provokes it more directly and immediately. As a social symptom, spiritism represents the final stage of a long process of spiritual decay. It is the terminal phase of our flight from God. It is terminal because God’s judgment on spiritism is not meant to admonish or correct, but to cleanse and extirpate.

            On an individual scale, the practice of spiritism is terminal because it represents an ultimate confusion of values. It trades humanity’s privilege of intimacy with God for sheer fascination with a liar who secretly hates all that is human and all that humans hold dear….

            For all these reasons, and then some, God rejects spiritism: it is a substitute, a counterfeit, a poison, and a ticket to condemnation. It has no place in eternity and no place in the life of a Christian.

            Indeed, this is precisely why New Age and related practices must not be ignored by anyone. But further, consider the following points which underscore the connection between New Age religion and even more hazardous spirituality illustrated by shamanism, Gnosticism, witchcraft, and Satanism.

            1. New Age religions and cults are frequently founded upon or undergirded by dangerous shamanistic motifs. New religions authority, Dr. Robert S. Ellwood, Jr., at the University of Southern California remarks that this “cult phenomena could almost be called a modern resurgence of shamanism.”

            2. New Age philosophy and practice is characteristically undergirded by a spiritually menacing gnosticism and related pagan ideologies. Yet the similarities between the culturally more acceptable Gnosticism and shamanism on the one hand, and the more overtly evil witchcraft and Satanism on the other, under- score the long-term social and individual consequences of New Age practice generally.

            The late New Age Hindu guru, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, actively endorsed witchcraft to his followers as constituting “one of the greatest possibilities of human growth.” Further, according to the late comparative religions scholar and authority on shamanism, Mircea Eliade, “All the features associated with European witches are… claimed also by Indo-Tibetan yogis and magi- cians.” Satanist high priest, Dr. Michael Aquino of the Church of Set, also described his brand of Satanism as a more refined and concentrated version of New Age philosophy and practice.

            All this helps explain why former Spiritual Counterfeits Project researcher, Dr. Robert Burroughs, remarks, “The new religions are not always among the land’s most upright citizens. There is a dimension of decadence and criminality among them that cannot be dismissed.” Dr. Raschke cogently argues that,
            The upsurge of Satanist practices… must be interpreted not as some kind of odd wrinkle in the present- day texture of religious change, but as a culminating phase of the “New Age” movement, for which the so- called “new religions” of the past two decades have provided a fertile environment in which to flourish. Satanism… represents the core tendencies of the new religions project.

            Common elements in all four categories (shamanism, Gnosticism, witchcraft, and Satanism) include the acceptance of spiritism; the portrayal of biblical Christianity as a spiritual evil, whether philosophically or practically; the rejection of absolute morality in favor of relativism, amoralism, or the deliberate acceptance and use of acts of evil for “higher” spiritual purposes; pagan, idolatrous practice as in nature religions; a highly consequential animistic or monistic philosophy—and not the least, the probability of demon-possession for the spiritual leaders and not infrequently the followers of these occult practices.

            When certain New Age leaders say “morality is degrading”; “Good and evil are one and the same”; “The murderer, too, is God”; that God and Satan and good and evil should both be used for purposes of spiritual growth, one can, perhaps, sense the larger social implications.


          • Al Sieber

            All you guys need to do is goggle “Albert Pike”, and see the agenda, and the new religion.

          • Kate 8

            Al – You are right about Albert Pike. We also have Madame Blavatsky and many others in the modern New Age movement.

            The funny thing is, it’s not new at all. It’s been around since the Nephilim, who brought this knowledge to mortals. In the Book of Enoch, it says that it was forbidden for the fallen angels to give this knowledge to humans, but they did it, anyway, leading to man’s continual tendency toward destruction, as he will always use it for his own greed and lust for power.

            Today, the NewAge movement, even though it appears to be empowering, is for the purpose of controlling. Just look how easily the NewAgers hop on every latest bandwagon suggested by the world elites.

            Like I said, all is deception. And we won’t find Truth in any organized mindset. We must find it on our own.

            What are the odds? Nearly impossible.

            One has to be willing to defy the odds and persevere.

          • Jay
          • Kate 8

            Good link, Jay. Thanks.

            I thought I’d share with you what came to me last night.

            As you know, I’ve been on a truth quest for my whole life, which is a frustrating endeavor. No wonder so few ever stick with it.

            Anyway, as I was falling asleep, it came in a flash. GOD CANNOT BE FOUND THROUGH THE INTELLECT. Intellect is a part of manifest existence, and can only deal with issues of navigating earthly life. It is associated with ego.

            God, and therefore Truth, can only be revealed through the heart, or the spirit. So all of these intellectual debates are, indeed, just distractions, mental exercises, intended only to keep the game going. God isn’t something we can rationalize, comprehend or assign attributes to. He is in our inner knowing, beyond mind, beyond thoughts, and cannot be explained. In fact, intellectualizing only gets in the way, forming ever more obstacles to our quest.

          • Kate 8

            BTW, this is the reason why religion can never satisfy our true longing to know God. It is a product of the mind. A mental practice.

          • Jay

            Bingo Kate, well said and remarkably accurate. God makes himself known to us, apart from God initiating that process, we cannot know Him. And He certainly cannot be deduced from nature except that nature reveals His creative powers. But God transcends nature and remains distinct from nature. As for religion, again, you are absolutely correct! Religion is not relationship. Religion is something, or, as you stated, an invention of man with the intent, and for the purpose to insulate ourselves from God. So much more to say, excuse the rambling, just got home, but gotta run. Love to pick this up later! God bless!

  • http://policestate jeb bush

    to jay im sorry if i insulted you and others by calling you sheeple. i was refering to folks that are not awere of the evil that hovers over America. i want freedom for all americans and justice for all. sorry and are you sure every one seen those movies? i was a sheep at one time

    • Jay

      Cool jeb, welcome aboard and let’s work together and fight the tyrannical leftist-power! God bless!!!

      • Kate 8

        Yes, welcome Jeb!

        And it’s admirable for you to admit that you may have jumped the gun and made assumptions.

        There are many awake and fine people here.

  • Jay

    On March 30, 2010, President Obama, with a few strokes of his pen, nationalized the student loan registry. This makes the federal government the arbiter of a financial service to students that, even in the best of lights, has led to the bloated and undeserved rise in the costs of college education over the past forty years. The takeover makes the Department of Education “one of the country’s largest banks-originating more than $100 billion in federal student loans each year.” That’s number one. It also displaces more than 35,000 workers in the financial industry, replacing them with government employees.

    This new government takeover was tucked away in the healthcare bill that the president rammed through Congress. What does education have to do with healthcare? Nothing. Why did they sneak it into the ObamaCare bill? A separate student loan bill had been passed by the House in 2009, but it was not taken up by the Senate. That’s why it was tucked away in the healthcare bill, too.

    But beyond the financial and employment implications of the bill, it’s also likely to change the face of higher education even further, with a federal bureaucracy having a say over who gets the money for college and who doesn’t. The situation is ripe for the imposition of leftist political views on the process of funding higher education. So obviously, schools that adhere to the leftist party line are more likely to get federal dollars than those who don’t. What’s more, we’ll no doubt be seeing affirmative action standards applied where the distribution of dollars is concerned. They’ll likely go to everyone from illegal aliens to those in selected racial and ethnic categories before they go to Caucasian Americans, for instance. And it’s highly unlikely anyone will ever need to worry about paying back their college loans. The American taxpayer is, once again, on the hook for potential irresponsible behaviour on the part of those who, in this case, receive college tuition guarantees.
    -Michael Savage(Trickle Up Poverty)

  • chuckb

    after watching mitch mcconnell on fox news today, i am sure we are going to lose the budget battle. he and boehner have no fortitude, i could see him wiggling when asked tough questions and said there is no problem with them raising the debt ceiling, it’s all no new tax.

    when i recollect, the republicans have always been on the wimpy side, is there a reason for this? i can remember few of them who could stand up and hold their ground. we desperately need a new party, i have been republican all my life until four years ago and i couldn’t take their weakness any longer. at this moment in time, donald trump is the only man out there and i really don’t know that much about him, however, he sure doesn’t back up from a political fight, he doesn’t cower from the media.


    These bureaucrats with a badge are everywhere; even elected sheriff’s
    misunderstand that they are required, by the constitution they swear an oath to uphold, to NOT violate the rights of the citizens who elect them. Incredible? My wife and I recently requested a meeting with our Fulton County, Arkansas sheriff to air grievances of clear violations of our civil rights, state and federal law and misconduct by bureaucrats within his office. The sheriff, a bully, threatened me with arrest, without cause, because he incorrectly and immaturely
    appeared to believe I was a threat to his authority–despite no such
    threat existence. After his bureaucrat appointee admitted she lied
    he became very humble–knowing he had comitted yet another violation
    of state law which I attempted to warn him was a pattern of his office. Never have I been more disappointed in an elected “Law ENFORCEMENT” officer. How many citizens must have their liberty threatened by cops who should know better before WE THE PEOPLE arrest them? A citizen on patrol (COP) has actual authority when we observe our constitutional rights violated. SFC, USArmy (R)

  • HaleyH

    We visited New York City in June. We were warned by our vacation rental by owner person to NOT place any garbage in those containers when any sanitation person or police officer was around to see since those were for non-residents only. Why make garbage disposal so difficult in New York? The worst thing here is, the night before garbage pick-up day, bags are piled high on sidewalks in unsightly, smelly mountains. It seemed so picky to ban people from trying to dispose of small amounts of garbage in a reasonable manner. No wonder those pedestrian trash cans were never full. They don’t want anyone to actually use them! I’d say, for the property and city income taxes those people are forced to pay, they should be able to throw out their trash anywhere they want to. Barely used garbage receptacles alongside mountains of stinking garbage make no sense to me!

  • c sam ball

    What does the constitution say to do when government is out of touch with the will of the people . these people need to be tried for treason and if guilty the prescribed sentence carried out . government needs to quit selling us out to the united nations and to the owners of the federal reserve and end this corporate government. we pledge to a republic not a democracy .

  • Windows 8 Key

    This video post is really impressive, the sound feature and the picture feature of this film post is really awesome.


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