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The Ultimate Estate Plan: How You Can Escape Taxes (and Possibly Tyranny) Forever

October 23, 2009 by  

The Ultimate Estate Plan: How You Can Escape Taxes (and Possibly Tyranny) Forever

Americans find it difficult, in a nation with constitutionally guaranteed civil rights, to imagine that our freedoms could one day be taken away by government.

Yet in my lifetime, and that of many others now living, that is what we witnessed in Germany, Poland and the occupied territories during World War II. There was at first a gradual, and then the total, erasure of civil and economic rights. By war’s end in 1945, millions had died. But millions more, those lucky enough to survive, were displaced refugees who lost everything—property, homes and family.

Yet, when this turmoil began in the 1930s, there were those who were smart enough to realize early on what was happening. These people planned accordingly and escaped with their lives and their fortunes. They got out before asset confiscation, currency controls and financial restrictions were clamped down in their home country.

I don’t mean to belittle the heroic sacrifices of those who lived and died in that era. Nor do I want to overstate the seriousness of the current situation in the U.S. But I believe sovereign individuals have to accept the fact that our rights and liberties now are under attack by our own government. Equally alarming is the perilous economic state of not only our government, but our country as well.

Why You Need a Plan in Place

Consider the facts: Between financial rescue missions and the economic stimulus program, government spending accounts for a bigger share of the nation’s economy—26 percent—than at any time since World War II. Facing a $2 trillion deficit in 2009, a $12 trillion national debt and a declining dollar, the president calls for more and bigger programs for healthcare and just about everything else.

Higher taxes, inflation and economic collapse seem all but inevitable.

Given this dangerous state of affairs, common sense dictates that you should have an escape plan in place for your family and your assets. If the worst comes to pass, you will be ready.

While it may seem like an extreme step, expatriation—the process of giving up one’s citizenship—might not just save your wealth. It may save your life.

And the process, while dramatic, is relatively straightforward.

Every year about 250,000 U.S. citizens and resident aliens leave America to make a new home in some other country. More than 5 million Americans now live abroad. Only a tiny fraction of these people give up their U.S. citizenship, and of those, most do so for non-tax reasons.

Step #1: Find a New Place to Call Home

One of the first steps toward expatriation and escaping U.S. taxation is finding a new home country that best suits you and your personal tastes.

If you have a genuine interest in living offshore it’s best to take a “test drive” of at least several months by living in your chosen country before you make a final decision. Be sure to pick a country with a “territorial tax system” that does not tax offshore income—only income earned—within the country.

Most countries will welcome you as residents, but on their own terms. Some countries, such as Switzerland and Austria, prefer wealthy entrepreneurs willing to invest and create jobs in exchange for special tax and residency deals.

Other countries, notably Panama, Uruguay and Belize, take a different approach. They have special laws to attract foreign retirees of more modest means to take up residence. They welcome you, not just with a lower cost of living, by also with real estate and import tax exemptions, discounts on many goods and services, tax-free offshore income, and quick approval of resident applications.

While these so-called “pensionado” programs in Panama and Belize require minimal guaranteed annual income from established pensions, neither program leads to eventual citizenship. However, many of their immigration programs do. Uruguay’s retiree program does grant eventual citizenship.

Step #2: Secure a Second Citizenship
A second major step on the road to expatriation is acquiring a second citizenship. Simply put, this means that you are legally a citizen of two countries at the same time, qualified as such under each nation’s law. The U.S. Supreme Court has affirmed Americans’ right to hold dual nationality, although some countries do not permit it.

Millions of American citizens potentially qualify for various reasons—ethnic heritage, religion, country of birth or where their spouse was born. While it’s impossible to know exactly how many Americans have acquired another passport, experts put the number of U.S. citizens who either have, or are entitled to have a second passport at more than 40 million.

Based on your ancestry (parents, grandparents), several countries encourage foreigners to apply for citizenship. The most notable are Ireland, Italy, Poland, and with some qualifications, the United Kingdom, Spain and Israel.

If you don’t qualify for a citizenship thanks to your bloodlines, economic citizenships are available. If you want a fast second passport, two countries, St. Kitts & Nevis and Dominica, sell quick “economic citizenship” but at very high prices. However, both programs are perfectly legitimate.

It’s also important to note that dual citizenship might result automatically for some people. This can occur, for example, when a child is born in a foreign country or if a U.S. citizen acquires foreign citizenship through marriage to a person from another nation. Often these types of automatic options are overlooked, so check to see if you qualify.

Keep in mind that you can’t end your U.S. citizenship without having a valid second passport. You cannot be a proverbial “man without a country.”

The final step to freedom is to go to a U.S. embassy or consulate and hand in your U.S. passport. You will also need to sign an official document stating that you are renouncing your rights to U.S. citizenship.

Ultimate Estate Plan

Expatriation is indeed “the ultimate estate plan” in the very real sense that it gives you the legal right to stop paying U.S. taxes forever. However, it is a major step that will separate you from family and friends and treat you as a foreigner when you travel to the U.S.

Expatriation works best for those who have substantial liquid assets that can be transferred to the low tax country of choice. This process requires professional assistance for coordination of assets planning, assessing tax consequences and acquiring a second nationality.

A drastic plan? You bet. But for the person who wants a permanent and legal way to stop paying U.S. taxes, expatriation is the only option—and it could be a lifesaver in a crisis.

For information on offshore residence and dual citizenship, see my new 7th edition of The Passport Book. It covers some of the best offshore jurisdictions for whatever needs you have.

—By Robert E. Bauman J.D.

Robert E. Bauman, J.D.

is a Former U.S. Congressman from Maryland. He now serves as legal counsel to The Sovereign Society, Editor of Offshore Confidential and Chairman of Freedom Alliance. He is the author of Where to Stash Your Cash: Offshore Financial Centers of the World and the Passport Book and more. Sovereign Society members and others know Bob as the prolific author of many articles, reports and books. His writings have appeared in The Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, National Review, Human Events and many other publications. As Chairman of The Freedom Alliance, Bob provides members with up-to-date, critical information about protecting your wealth and freeing yourself from unnecessary taxes and government oversight.

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  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    But if your a common joe such as me and millions of other Americans, moving to a foreign country, and buying a house and land there, or starting a business as you suggest is way beyond our financial means. However, due to this larger taxation efforts going on, I do see many of our business getting fed up and having enough, and it is going to soon cause a mass exodus of our business’s to other countries, that will be enormous in size compared to those that fled to Mexico when Bill Clinton signed us into NAFTA. There is one party out there that likes to tax the crap out of business, so maybe they should consider this before they start making people pay again for being successful.

    • Norm

      Beberoni
      American companies are moving operations to other countries for 2 reasons, tax avoidance and cheap labor. Tax avoidance is least important. Labor costs are number 1. Why pay Americans a fair wage including medical care, when you can get a Mexican or Chinaman for pennies? It’s not only manual labor. Engineers and computer people, many who made the companies great, are up for grabs in India and China.
      The bean counters who manage these moves are pocketing millions – for now. I’ve been there, I’ve seen how its done.

      • Robin from Indiana

        Norm…
        The unions got too big for their britches. I lived in Michigan growing up and had many relatives who worked for the ‘big 3′. They made great money, great benefits, great healthcare. So why did they need a bail out? Everything was great, wasn’t it?
        Companies are moving out of the US for cheaper labor and no unions to deal with. If the unions hadn’t crossed the line from being a help for the ‘working Joe’, to an uncontrollable monster, I think the car companies may have survived, along with a lot of people who really needed their jobs in Michigan.

        • Mitten

          Robin from Indiana – I retired from the big3 working for the top executives and still live in Michigan. Yes, the union and executives were in “bed together.” How about the executives who still continue to get FREE cars, gasoline for those cars, health insurance, country club memberships and the list goes on AND what about the lobbyists who get the same and dole out for votes the FREEbies from these big3? And the pharmaceutical companies and non-profit hospitals and non-profit nursing homes are doing the same thing!!

      • DaveH

        And why is Mexico offering such cheap labor? Because due to their over-regulated economy, competition is stifled and corruption is rampant. A long time ago they reached where we are headed.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        And our country should be so gracious to them, that if they move from here to there, to charge them a 50 percent fee to sell their goods here. I am totally against them moving out of the country, paying some guy 2 dollars a day, and then selling an inferior product back here. Our government should put the kabish to this, but Im sure someone somewhere, in both parties is taking a payout from someone.

    • ccg

      Obama recently approved a 2% salary increase for all federal employees effective January 1, 2010. Members of the executive, legislative and judicial branch are due for an automatic pay increase in January as well. All this on the backs of seniors who will not incur any COLA increases for several years.
      For the first time in history, the Congress will not allow an increase in the social security COLA (cost of living adjustment).
      They need to stop all unnecessary spending and any raises for themselves. How much are these Czars getting?

    • http://www.aynrand.org Paul Beaird

      Beberoni and others,
      They are both major Parties which vote to tax the life out of you.

      Consider: If the wealthy move out of the countries, they are taking their know-how with them. If businesses move out of the country, they are taking their productive ability with them. It is called the Galt Strategy, after the hero of Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged. They government is causing this Brain Drain from America, making life even harder for the Average Joe you speak of.

      This is one of the reasons you need, not to enslave productive people, but to shackle your government, as the US Constitution tried to do for you. The only purpose for which your government was established was to protect your rights (freedom of action).

      If you want to know the up-to-date moral foundation for individual rights, so that you can fight for them with effective persuasion, I point you to the writings of Ayn Rand. If you prefer getting life lessons from a dramatic action story, with heroes taking action in the world you live in, pick up Atlas Shrugged. If you are a non-fiction person and want it short and simple, I point you to Ayn Rand’s little paperback on morality, The Virtue of Selfishness.

      I wish I could refer you to at least one other voice that presents the Freedom Philosophy with moral power, but there isn’t one. Maybe it is because Ayn Rand came to America after escaping the Communists in Russia, where she saw what happens to a society in which “social needs” are placed higher than individual rights. The contrast was hers to share with you and me.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        And this lady knows that socialism doesnt work, and yet the Democrats are rushing headlong into wanting to push this on us. I disagree with your statement that both sides tax us to death, because I have seen the positive things from Bush’s tax cuts, as my employer was able to hire 30 new employees when that was signed in. The dems are taking it away in 2010 though. I saw the country head the right way when Reagan downsized government and cut taxes. Then I saw things presented like things were good under Bill Clinton, when the fact of the matter was he upped taxes more than any president in history. So it does seem to me, that one side is a little more inclined to raise taxes than the other, and they also are inclined to expand government more, which calls for a need for more taxes to pay for this bigger government.

      • Meteorlady

        I was wondering if anyone ever read Ayn anymore. She is my favorite. I think you are right about the brain drain and people moving out of this country. I have considered it myself before we become the third world country we are headed for. Both parties feather their own beds with our money and talent, but the Democrats campaign for the working people and then tax the crap out of them and the businesses that provide them jobs. Ayn should be required reading for every American in this day and age because we are living through what she wrote about.

  • American Citizen

    It’s a given that the two positives we know will happen in this life are taxes and death. They even tax the successful after they die. If the people in this country don’t wake up, they’re going to become slaves to the government. Our young are being indoctrinated in the government schools, especially the colleges where those young people are allowed to vote. It’s time to raise the voting age to 25 at least. That way, they will have some life experiences before they vote themselves into slavery. Maybe they;ll wise up by then,
    One thing people have to take into account, is that if the companies and rich move to other countries, the governments of those countries will come to think like the present government of this country is thinking. Then they’ll be in the same boat they’re in now.

    • libertytrain

      Interesting point about the voting age – I had never thought of it that way -

    • DaveH

      On voting age – the Genie is out of the bottle. What we could do though is to push hard for the voucher system so parents could send their kids to the school of their choice. That would stop a lot of the propaganda, as it would be risky business for the schools to anger the parents.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I know at 18 I didnt have a clue who stood for what when I voted. It was all about who was popular according to the TV, or who was young and had cool hair and stupid stuff like that. You think Kennedy’s looks didnt help him beat Nixon. But even at 25 I was pretty clueless politically wise. A little smarter than at 18, but still naive. But your right, these young 18-19 year olds, hear and see change-change-change on TV over and over again, so thats what they vote for, when they dont have clue who this person is or what they stand for. Its kind of scary really. They are allowed to vote in a president, but they cant sit down and legally drink a beer in a bar. That is scary.

      • DaveH

        I agree Beberoni. I also wish they weren’t allowed to vote. But if you remember, that was a direct result of our country drafting 18-year olds to fight in a war (Vietnam). How could we tell them to die for a country they couldn’t vote in? What a web we weave.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Same ones that say you can fight and die for your country but you cant have a beer.

          • libertytrain

            Beberoni – remember – the drinking laws were originally the same as the voting age – when it became 18 to vote – I was there – I remember – but apparently there were so many problems with a younger drinking age it had to be changed back to 21 -

          • American Citizen

            When I was 18, I lived in Ohio where we were legally allowed to drink 3.2 beer. But we had to wait until 21 to be able to vote. Even then, I voted according to the party I was registered in – the same as my parents. I still had no real clue as to politics. I’d say I was probably 35 or so before I began to take an interest in politics. I was too busy raising children up until then.

        • libertytrain

          DaveH – you are right – a tangled web.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You cite these problems with a younger drinking age at 18 versus 21, which I totally agree with. But isnt it more dangerous for all of us that these same dangerous 18 year olds can put someone into office with their votes, when 98 percent of them havent a clue about who or what they are voting for? Seems it swung this last election, just because of a few million TV commercials saying change-change-change and absolutely nothing else. That is how easily they are swayed.

        • DanH

          Have you seen the movie Starship troopers? I like the Ideas in it where you have to serve in the military for citizenship and the right to vote. Realistically though, we can move up the age for voting with the explicit exception of service to country which could automatically allow 18 year olds vote instead of 21-25 as suggested.

          • LindaSS

            Good idea–only allowing vote to those 18-year-olds who serve their country, all others not voting until they’re at least 21. Very good!

            The brainwashing in the schools is disgusting. The “hippies” are the teachers now, teaching the kids of other “hippies” who may still be high! Very scary! Can’t run a country doped up!

      • MOMSRIGHT

        You are right about the voting age! Obama deffinately got the young voters! This was one of the reasons that you originally had to be a land owner to vote, the founding fathers knew that if a person owned property they would vote in ways to protect that property thus, the right to private property and liberty go hand in hand! If this madness continues expect to see peoples property seized! I am not ready however to renounce my American Citizenship! I think we need to fight and not run away! Gods hand of providence has always been on this great country! Maybe He has alittle bit more left for us in this generation!

        • seeitgotohell

          People already have no right to own property. It is called Imminent Domain. And what happened to only paying taxes during a time of crisis? Oh yeah, our government makes sure that we are always in a time of crisis.

      • eyeswideopen

        Beber, don’t worry, John Derbyshire took a stand against womens suffrage and has suggested that the Republicans can return to power by denying women the right to vote. The civil war may be us women fighting against the old Republican men who don’t think we should have a right to vote.

        • DaveH

          Bigotted and Sexist statement. Nice. Your true colors are showing.

          • eyeswideopen

            You are funny. Call me bigoted? I didn’t make the statement, a Republican man did. You are in outer space.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I dont think so. You are angry and gravely mistaken about the Republican Party. Seems they ran a #2 as a woman. How about your dems? Problem was, if the Republicans would have ran that same woman as #1 and made the 150 year old man the VP, they would have won. I just dont see the hypocrisy of your democratic party. The republicans over the years have done far more for black people and for women, yet the black vote goes democrat, and so does the womens vote. Why vote for the hand that keeps you down? I dont get it.

          • eyeswideopen

            Berb, obviously, they aren’t doing right by either one, are they? If they were, I bet both groups would vote for them. Besides I am a Republican and it drives me crazy when our men make stupid sexist statements, like not letting us vote.

      • ccg

        They were questioning college kids as to what amount of taxes that they would be willing to pay on their income. Surprise surprise most of the kids said between 50% and 70% would be fine with them. The ones who were actually “working” their way through college said around 15%. Upon asking why, they said “I need the money”.
        That is reality. So it is obvious that we need to allow our youth to work their way through college too. It is a valuable life experience that they are being denied of, and keeping them ignorant of the true value of the dollar. I know, I know it is being devalued as we speak, it is a euphemism.

    • Paul Neumann

      Voting should only be for those that have skin in the game. In the USA it could be

      a) people who pay $1 or more income tax
      b) people who do not receive benefits of any kind except retirement benefits or benefits arising out of 25% or more incapacitation or VA benefits.

      AND/OR

      a) people (individuals) owning real estate within the borders of the United States and possessions.

      People on welfare and who are not incapacitated (except if self-induced) should not be allowed to vote. This would be one way of saving the ‘Republic’ and maintain what our founding fathers meant under ‘democracy’.

      Since I don’t see this coming to pass I have decided to escape to Indonesia.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Paul N,

        I agree with your overall message here, but I am wondering about your comment “People on welfare and who are not incapacitated (except if self-induced) should not be allowed to vote”. Does your exception in parenthesis inadvertently cancel out the “not incapacitated” part of your comment? Just trying to discern whether I understood your comment correctly, so my apology (in advance) if I’ve missed the boat on your message. Here’s some more food for thought:

        Of course not all, but so many illnesses and disabilities seem to be a result of our population engaging in seriously risky behaviors for many years (ex: smoking, drug and alcohol related addictions, food addictions, HIV and other STD’s to name just a few).

        If we’re honest, many of us might find we’ve even engaged in at least one or two self-inflicting negative behaviors ourselves at some point in our lives, maybe when we were younger or some who may still be);

        I’m thinking it might be reasonable to assume this category may now or in the future…greatly outnumber those who have not caused (in large part) their own incapacitation, which may then result in only a smidgeon of eligible voters and possibly creating a different result than what you or I may intend.

        For the above reasons; I’m thinking your suggestion on that particular point of your message….would have been most appropriate if only it were in use many years ago. Having said that, your suggestions are novel and I believe with some additional language might still meet your excellent criteria. What do you think about the following?

        From my point of view, it might be reasonable to only allow people to vote and to receive social service assistance/benefits (even those who may have participated in their own incapacitation) when needed for health care reasons…with the following caveat:

        Those adult-age individuals receiving social service type benefits should have skin in the game (as you so eloquently stated). Appropriate skin in the game might be (for example)…some type of contribution he or she must already have made, will make, or their family has or will make on his or her behalf. Such contributions might be money or even a sweat equity type contribution to the benefit program used.

        I included “adult-age”, because I think it is reasonable to assist children with health-related issues. They really have no control over decisions their parents have made regarding the child’s health care; I don’t feel we should inadvertently compound a child’s health problems, by instituting such consequences on them, especially when the health problems are a result of their parents’ poor choices. Their parents might even be expected to contribute something back into the benefit program used, similar to the senario I described above.

        I’m certain some very bright individuals might even come up with some other very constructive and fiscally responsible ideas.

        Just a thought!

        Fed Up in NM

    • Roy

      In regard to increasing the voting age to 25, I don’t think this will help much. What would help greatly is to require all citizens to have paid income tax in any election year in order to have the right to vote. Seems like the fairest way to do this is to go to a flat tax where everyone, regardless of income, pays 10%. If that’s not enough to run our government, then government needs to be cut back to this level. People who vote but pay no taxes have a very high incentive to vote from the public treasury favors to themselves that the rest of us must pay for. Once this number goes beyond 50% all is lost.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Yes, I tend to agree with you. The FAIR tax also seems like a reasonable option…..either the FLAT or the FAIR tax should replace the current taxing process. Here’s a link, if you’d like to read about it.

        http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

        Fed Up Gal in NM

    • Meteorlady

      If I had children in school today I would pull them out and home school them or find a good private school that teaches American History as it happened. My nephew is 17 and has never studied the Constitution or the Bill of Rights and has now idea why or how this country was founded. He says they spend more time teaching the Spanish children in Spanish than they do helping the American children with learning. His school has even talked about requiring Spanish class so that they can all communicate with each other. Maybe we should stop enabling people, and make English the only language we use. As for our President and the elites in Congress – they live by different rules than we have to. We need a Constitutional Amendment that says they have to use everything we have to like schools, social security, healthcare, their commutes to and from work are not paid for with tax dollars, travel is at their expense, etc. etc.

  • http://? John

    have you or anyone else explored ‘ALLODIAL’ land rights? if so I’d like to know who and how they went about it!

  • http://fcernhart@yahoo.com Marianne to Marsha

    Bob Livingston,

    Sir,
    PLEASE, PLEASE, give us some advice about what we can do when
    our resources are NOT enough to move to another country! Do we change our name, identy? How can we do that when SS is our income?

    Is there any hope for us?

    • DaveH

      Yep. Vote Libertarian. The only political party that understands true freedom. A large number of people vote Democrat because they don’t like the Republicans telling them who or who not to sleep with. And a large number of people vote Democrat because they don’t want a government that protects them from themselves. If indeed their errant behavior costs them a price, under the Libertarian party they pay that price out of their own pockets. When people are left alone to make their own mistakes and be responsible for their own mistakes, I have no doubt that most will become the best that they can be. As the saying goes “When you treat people like children, they behave like children”.
      http://libertarianparty.org/platform

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The one thing Dave that keep me from switching to Libertarian right now, is that Im willing to do it, but the Democrats are going to stay true to their party, and win election after election, until the Libertarians get big enough to win some. By then the dems could have this country destroyed. What do you think of this? I would like to switch, but I see the Libertarians stealing republicans votes and the democrats winning handily if myself and others do this.

        • DaveH

          Beberoni,
          Where has the lesser of two evils gotten us? I think that the Libertarian Party would appeal to many Democrats as well as many Republicans. The major problem we have as Libertarians is to enlighten people about our platform and why it would work. That requires mass media, and of course the MSM (which works for the fat cats and the leaders) do not want to give the Libertarians exposure. Libertarians are all about free markets and competition. What million-dollar a year executive wants that? Not too many. But fortunately Foxnews, as usual, is coming to our rescue. They now have 2 well-known Libertarians on their team now (Beck and Stossel). Also, Judge Napolitano who is close enough to Libertarian (He describes himself as a pro-life Libertarian) and he is formidable on Constitutional Law.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I understand. I just know how the Democrats operate, and they would like nothing more than to splinter thier opponents in two. If the Libertarians could convince some of them to come on over, it would be good. I do see these two parties we have now, doing nothing but torpedoing any efforts they make in order to keep them from looking good, all and the expense of American’s like you and I. Ive said a long time ago we need a third party, and I sure hope it doesnt lose its way like these two have, one a whole lot more so than the other.

          • DaveH

            I’m with you on that Beberoni. I also hope the Libertarians don’t lose their very principled ways.

        • http://priscilla.perez@lnfre.com Maria

          I live in NJ and it looks like the 3rd party candidate, Daggett, is taking votes from the Republican and we may end up with Corzine again.
          At this point, a state like NJ needs to get rid of Corzine. I believe that the Dems put up this 3rd party guy to do just that, keep a Dem in office. This has been detrimental to our state, and Corzine and Daggett are very much alike in their tax policies.

          • DaveH

            Maria,
            We’ve got two major parties, both of which have been growing government. Granted that Democrats grow it quicker than Republicans, but is a quick death worse than a slow death?
            We need to vote for candidates who will reduce the size of government. It’s the only way to get our freedom back.

        • PR

          My question is how long would it take before ANY other party – Libertarian, Constitution, or whatever – get greedy with our money and freedom? Perhaps these other parties need to work with the Republican Party and get them back on track. They used to be for small government and personal freedom. The Democrats ran a great campaign in 2008 in getting out the vote – although a lot of it was fraudulent. The Conservatives need to run an equally great campaign in 2010 and 2012, and then keep the message going – year after year, not just at election time. Getting to the young people will be the key to keeping this mess we’re from getting worse.

          • DaveH

            Definitely education is the key, PR.
            But the Republicans have failed us. How many chances do we give them? Can we afford to give them more time?

          • Meteorlady

            Both the major parties are corrupt. You cannot run for office unless they back you so that means your candidates are already bought and sold before they are elected. We need those other parties and we need to actively support them. Most Libertarians and Constitutionalist are true believers in smaller government and less control. Maybe some will turn out bad, but if we had third party candidates and term limits maybe we could get our country back sometime in the future.

        • Drake Bailey

          Sort-o-kinda-right…
          I suggest ignoring all the parties with any agenda other than the base return to the bill of rights and constitution.
          This would renew common law and hopefully common sense.
          Then again, the basis of certain portions of the wording of the original document is what has us in the present problems.
          Those who cannot leave should be ready for a second revolution, officially and personally. This is just how serious things are…
          Passage of certain regulations and legislation offers few other options.
          When the timing of said actions is thrown off, you get the knee jerk reactionisms we have been seeing lately, hate crimes bill, FCC regs on approved content, etc.
          The option out is presently seen by the actions of the ‘holders’ of our ‘free’ press. All will now be charged hard for access to the pools of info from mainstream press.
          Corporate powers are looking at rates that will keep most out of the picture entirely.
          So the ‘free net’ ain’t gonna offer average access as detailed in the reports of the intent levels of said ‘charges’.
          Anything(entity) that offers any content opposing any part of the administration, will be shut down and its principles jailed…any opposition to accepted(approved) beliefs or religeous establishments is disallowed, offering charges of treason, etc.
          Unless all the people get organized, the individuals will be easy pickins for the SWAT boys, military, and law enforcement.
          I know…the nay sayers, can’t happen in the USA, will feel obligated to just jump right on this. Problem is…it is already happening while you read this.
          A Cuban immigrant stood up at a town hall meeting and declared that the socialization of medical care was the forerunner of the take over of his country.
          A representative recently called on all representatives of Tenth Amendment States (those who have passed legislation) to stand united and counter to our federal governments actions. Said representative has since disappeared. I hope that gives some idea as to the realities involved here…
          An…an…guess what? Each and everyone who has ever been on any site of this kind or voiced any opposition to any government action is now on a secret list. The depth of this info tells absolutely everything about you, and I do mean everything. You now have a target painted on your life…
          Think about how ‘they’ know what you like, product offers that fit your actions, and things related to any internet search…?
          The prison camps await, blackwater is ready, etc.
          Outlandish ideas from politicians are no longer hidden. The progress of the plan is such that it does’t matter if the people know or not!
          Amusement parks ain’t got nothin on the ride we are about to take!

      • Only human

        Dave, You sadden me on so many levels. Check out the true nature of vouchers or even charter schools for that matter. They are promoting segregation to the point where every race and religion are believing they are the superior ones. If that does not scare you enough then look at the fellow countries on this earth in which wars were waged and some continous for ethnic cleansing or religious reasons. They are promoting the exact thing Mr. Bauman is predicting. The public schools are the only answer to making sure everyone gets the same education as well as trying to create open dialogue among students to understand that we are all human and not to focus on differences.
        The other point is that it became obvious due to failing banks and our economy that people cannot be trusted to do the right thing and do not hesitate to take away from others to be the best that THEY can be. The mistakes that were made at the highest level show that there is a greater need for government,period. Your Utopia with the Libertarians will never come to fruitian unless humans prove to one another that we are all equally capable. This would mean doing away with all prejudices, religions and caste systems, good luck!

        • DaveH

          There will never be Utopia, Human. All we can do is try our best to deal with human nature. As far as public education goes, we will never be able to please a major segment of society’s parents with public schools. One size does not fit all. When the religion-stiflers are in, the religious people are pissed, and vice-versa. Of course there are many other reasons to allow the market mechanisms of school-choice to work. Instead of me writing a long boring defense of school-choice, I would rather you or others looked up articles on that subject. Also, I might add that the smart parents are going to send their kids to the best schools with no regard to race. It saddens me that you think we need the force of government to get along (it doesn’t work anyway).
          On your banking question. You think people are too evil to be trusted, and then you promote the idea that Big Government is the solution? Is there some kind of litmus test I haven’t heard of that assures those same evil people can’t gravitate to government? And there they have much more power over us than free-market business people would.

          • http://priscilla.perez@lnfre.com Maria

            I say let people not have to pay such high property taxes for the Public Schools and let them use the money to send their children to whatever school they chose.It is the responsibility of parents and not the government to educate their children. We have allowed the government to take so much power from families that now we don’t even know what the meaning of family is.

          • s c

            I have a very simple and foolproof test for ‘human.’ LET HIM BECOME A TEACHER! Then and only then can he compare notes, and ralize that he is clueless and that his ‘facts’ are fantasy.
            Only when you’ve been on “both sides of the desk” can people see the difference between that which is ‘comfy’ and that which is REALITY in education matters.
            While I’m at it, I’d like to hear ‘human’ defend that jennings twit (comrade obama’s ‘safe school’ czar). And then let him defend comrade obama. ‘Human’ is typical of mny Americans who refuse to take the time to sort crap from apple butter and GET THE REAL FACTS.
            ‘Human’ doesn’t know up from down. In this world, that makes him a potential politician.
            Dream on, ‘human.’

          • eyeswideopen

            Maria, you are aware that it is the individual states that mandate and control public schools aren’t you? It is your local state, you have the power to change your system. We do not have a nationalized public school system. We pay no Federal taxes for public schools. If you don’t like your schools, you can change them.

          • libertytrain

            DaveH – nice comment

          • DaveH

            Maybe Eyes, you can explain to Maria why there is the US Dept of Education.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Dave you are a smart guy. Free Market lets the people choose, and lets those who know what they are doing to be successful, and those that dont know what they are doing, to have to fold up and get out of the way for those who work hard and apply themselves and succeed. When the government gets in the way, like running our school systems, look at the mess. Look at the hugh ballooned budget. Look what mess they have made with medicare and medicaid and social security, the schools, the very goverment offices they run. They are all costly, none efficient, and they all cost us tax payers to fund them. When a private company runs and owns something, like say a private school or even a Christian School, us tax payers arent footing the bill for it, and those students as a whole come out better educated and more prepared to enter into the world. They are also taught discipline, which is a missed and much needed thing with our youth, and it is absent for 13 years of public school. Free Market suceeds. Government run fails, plus it costs us all. Shrink the government, not grow it.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I do not agree with your accessment that different people get a different education at a public school. I used to get so pissed off when I would hear, predominately black people accuse the public school system of not teaching their kids the same as white kids, and they did that here in Indiana when I attented school, right when they started busing. I sat in those very same class rooms, with the very same white and black and hispanic kids, and we all were in the same room, had the same teachers, and heard them say the same words. No one was given preferential treatment, as when I went to high school, teachers stayed up at the front of the classroom, and everyone got taught the same. Then years later I hear this unequal education crap. Baloney I say. I was there, and that is a lie. Now later in life, I sent my kids to private school, because by then, the schools have become liberal, trying to teach evolution, and telling kids that Jesus is a fairy tale. No, Im not having that. But in public schools, all kids get the same education, well, at least the same education is offered. Some just reject it, because to some cultures, if they educate themselves, for some reason, it is a bad mark against them. If they get good grades they are deemed a sell out. The school education or lack of it, its a cultural problem, not the schools problem. The offer of getting educated is there for every child. Its just some of their chosen “playmates” dictate to them that they cant get it.

          • American Citizen

            You’re right, Bebe, then came so-called integration when kids were bused out of their district in or to “equalize” the school populations as to ‘diversity”. It became impossible for parents to become involved. Then came the black cultural notion that education was the “white” thing to do. The dropout rate for blacks is terrific. Their graduation rate in some school is only 10%. They set themselves up for a lifetime of failure.

          • ccg

            Bebe, you are right. The main difference in my life was that my parents also got involved.
            When I got poor marks on my report card my dad became my tutor. He was a hard taskmaster too. I got to spend one hour a night on my handwriting, till I got it right. Then spelling. I not only had to learn how to spell it correctly, I had to learn how to spell it backwards. I remember going to school in the 3rd grade informing my teacher that I had learned how to spell hippopotamus and spelling it for her. Then I informed her I knew how to spell sumatopoppih too. She asked me to spell it, I did, then she asked me what it meant and I said hippopotamus spelled backwards. She looked at me, then walked away to another teacher and I thought she didn’t care. Later I realized she was actually laughing.
            Anything that I did not do well in my dad got involved with. I did the same with my children, they are both extremely smart young ladies.

        • eyeswideopen

          Well said, Only Human.

        • libertytrain

          Only Human – while you have interesting points – I can’t quite figure out why the President sends his girls to private schools – surely not to set an example of the good public school system?

          • eyeswideopen

            Come on Liberty, you know that a smaller private school is easier to protect against the radicals who want to kill his kids right along with him.

          • libertytrain

            I expect every president must have those fears, more particularly the last one – However, I get tired of many of them using the “do as I say, not as I do” standard when it comes to where they send their kids to school – the current one is just one of many who chose not to set a good proof example for the common folk who can’t afford the luxury he now can .. .in my opinion, of course.

          • eyeswideopen

            Liberty, can you name one President who didn’t send his children to private school? Just one who was in the White house with children, who didn’t send them to private school. You are for private school aren’t you, seems you and DaveH liked the voucher ideas for middle class children. Obama was sending his children to private school prior to becoming President, so you want him to not do that now? He was one who could afford the luxury prior to becoming Pres. and you resent that don’t you?

          • libertytrain

            I don’t think you read my post very well. Try reading it again. And as far as vouchers go my parents paid to send me to private schools…the key word being “paid” – We sent our own kids to public grade, middle and high schools – happened to live in areas where they were pretty good. Two of them did choose to go to private and albeit – expensive colleges – While we helped them off and on, they paid because they worked their way through, one managed to do it in four – the other a little longer and they paid their school loans as well. Again, they paid, not the government.

          • eyeswideopen

            So, you think that President Bush paid for his Children to go to Private schools? Well, guess what, Obama is paying for his children to go to private schools also, so what is your point?

          • Fed Up Gal in NM

            EYES,

            It’s pretty simple. President Obama began the CHANGE chant but it now seems as if the Obama’s don’t like the idea of CHANGING their kids’ schools so much.

            Not a big deal on the surface, except he ran on the CHANGE platform. Personally, I think it’s rather sad that as a president who relishes his own idea of change, he is apparently quick to draw the line when it comes to CHANGING his own kids’ school.

            Doubt you’ll want to hear it, but Dave H posted an interesting video that explains why DC area families with kids who were going to school on vouchers feel the guy they elected has let them down. It almost seems like they feel they’ve been duped in a bait and switch tatic. THE END.

          • libertytrain

            Fed Up – I think that’s why I am so tired of all of the people we hire/hired in Washington having a “Do As I Say – Not As I Do” attitude – perhaps we need to really take a look at who we hire/vote to do these jobs – they seem to develop a “Hollywood/I’m Now A Star” mentality – looking after the “little people” who don’t “know any better” – and those benefits that come with their job should be looked at more closely as well – It’s just my take on those “employees” of ours. I remember the late Sen. William Proxmire – he seemed to always realize he was working for the people, not the other way around – All my life – from being a little child to adulthood – I would see him very frequently at shopping centers- places he could meet the people – just shaking hands and saying ‘Any questions; Can I help You; Nice to meet you’ – just out there, rain, cold, anytime – meeting his constituents. It’s been a long while now and he’s the only politician I have seen/met (and I’ve met far too many) in MY life to be so human. I don’t/didn’t know his personal life, don’t care – I liked the way he treated and cared for the people who employed him.

          • eyeswideopen

            you are truly something, do you not know that they moved from Chicago to D.C.? They changed their schools, they also took input from the secret service to decide which school would be easier for them to provide security for. He should put his kids in a public school, where nuts like on this site could get to them? Right, I bet you would do the same, if the situation was reversed. Every Presidents child has been in private school, as we have always had nuts running loose in this country who would kill them in a second. You are not using logic, it is just another thing that you want to complain about. The government is not paying for their education, the parents are, and they were in private school prior to moving to D.C. Basically you want the Presidents children to have a lesser education than DaveH, here on this site received from his private Catholic school and college. Sweet, and totally biased.

          • Fed Up Gal in NM

            Also my opinion!

            Fed Up Gal

          • Fed Up Gal in NM

            Liberty,

            My comment “Also my opinion” was in reference to your comment (24 Oct) about Presidents “do as I say, not as I do”. I was agreeing with your “in my opinion” comment at the end of your message. Sorry if it wasn’t clear what I meant.

            Fed Up Gal

          • libertytrain

            Fed Up Gal – thanks so much – you’re always pretty clear in what you write!

          • DaveH

            Eyes is right. He wants to protect his kids. And only his. To hell with anybody else’s kids.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7FS5B-CynM

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Allthough eyes proposes it is to protect his kids from radicals, which eyes means right wing Christian Republicans, it is to protect them from the terrorists that are running freely in this country, from nations that Barack wants to give a hug to and tell them we like them. But seriously, any top public politician has to be very careful with his children and where they let them go, because there is always some unstable person out there wanting to do something stupid just to make a name for themselves. Its sad but true, but its not a right wing radical as eyes proposes. 99 percent of these wack jobs that would harm someones kid just to make themselves a household name, well, you can bet the farm they are of the liberal think tank, because conservatives value family and country, and dont think that way, but liberals do.

          • eyeswideopen

            Bebe, I didn’t say right wing did I? Just shows how you try and turn everything around. I said radical. Not radical Right, You owe me an apology. It wasn’t even a complicated statement, Direct and to the point. If I would have meant rt. wing, I am capable of saying that.

        • Meteorlady

          As a Catholic school surviver I can tell you that we had a far better education than public schools provided. When I left after 8 grades I skipped a grade and went into High School as a 10th grader. Even then I had the highest grades in my class. If the minorities would get off their butts and take advantage of the education opportunities in this country, they to could afford to send their children to private schools. I don’t buy the segregation of ethnic ideas you espouse. In Catholic school we had minorities (only then they were just plain American children going to school) and we were taught respect for all people. You are uninformed and probably are a product of public education.

      • seeitgotohell

        I believe if the political parties were less worried about fighting eachother and lining their pockets with corporate money that regardless of which party you went with this country would not be tearing itself apart at the seams. We need people honestly care for others not people who just pretend to care. We are all in this together. Show me a party that has this policy and I will be faithful till I die. This is what we need if there is to be a United States in the near future. The true United States is almost dead.

        • DaveH
          • seeitgotohell

            I have a hard time seeing our current “government elect” allowing a party with these kind of ideals, that make good sense, actually gain enough power to make these kind of changes when it has worked so hard over the last few decades to strip America of what it means to be American.

          • seeitgotohell

            The government has stripped, I mean.

          • seeitgotohell

            Oh yeah, thanks for the link. This is the only thing that I have read in a while that makes sense. I will have to become more active. This country was founded on these principles and the further we stray from them the worse things get. I understand that nothing can be perfect because people are not perfect but we can make things easier on ourselves by going back to what our FREE thinking founders set down for us. It is because we started letting others think for us that things have gotten this bad. You cannot remove a foundation from a building and expect it to stand for long.

      • Roy

        Regardless of how good the Libertarian platform sounds, there are aspects that I disagree with. In particular the relativistic moral platform. And, as we have already seen in the past, it is very difficult to overthrow the two-party system. Therefore, what I advocate, is an infiltration / takeover of an existing party (the Republican Party most likely). If the Libertarian Party would focus on this task I think they would win over many conservatives from the GOP and probably pull some like-minded folks from the Donkey Party, if not in name, at least in votes. I still think it best for a Libertarian takeover of the GOP, and quite frankly, we are seeing that happen as we speak to one extent or another. Voting Republicans are largely fed up with ruling Republicans right now. I can think of no better time for the Libertarian Party to stop the new building project but rather take over and revamp what is already there.

        • Meteorlady

          Study Ron Paul – a representative from Texas. He used to be Libertarian and even ran for President on the Libertarian ticket. He switch to Republican because he wanted another chance to run for President last election. The media mostly ignored him for the flashier candidates and some even portrayed him as a cook. Read his 2000 address to the House – it’s called “A Republic If You Can Keep It”. Then study how he has voted and what bills he has initiated or backed. This is an example of a man sticking to his convictions and doing the right thing for this country.

    • Banker

      Yes. There’s a simple solution but it might cost you a few bucks. Take a greyhound bus to Mexico. Then sneak in over the border and say “No Hablea English”. You’ll make out better than getting ss and medicaid.

    • ccg

      Marianne, I guess we need to change our names to Gomez or Muhammad or something similar. Maybe we should register as an illegal alien now.

    • Lyla

      Yep. Leave and you will not get ss retirement/medicare halth. You won’t be able to support yourself in old age. Don’t expect to invest to get income as stock market is crooked. Also, C-Span had gov’t person on today who said they are going to bail out people who had their stolen pensions. Can’t get that if you run away.

      • Meteorlady

        Hello – my parents moved out of country and had dual citizenship and collected their social security.

    • http://www.personalliberty.com/ Robert E. Bauman J.D.

      The purpose of changing residence from the United States to another country is not to hide, but to live in a climate where freedom is valued and individual rights are respected, as they once were in America. It is a shame that things have come to this. But even when a U.S. person lives abroad they still have a continuing obligation to pay U.S. taxes on all income.

      Changing one’s name or identity with the intent of somehow avoiding government scrutiny or taxes would be evidence of criminal intent and would not succeed in any case. That’s because we all need accurate personal identification in order to exist in our society, as for example, in receiving Social Security payments.

      The one major hope, slim as it may be, is that in due course a majority of Americans will take the political action required to change the disastrous course on which, in my opinion, we are now headed.

  • Geo

    I find it amazing that there is so much talk about jumping ship. It blows my mind in so many ways that it almost hurts to think that this country is going down a path that I really do not want to follow. On the other hand I still think this is the greatest country ever.

    I think if we get more conservative ideals in our government instead of this “progressive”/communistic/socialist ideas we can really turn this country around. The problem is our officials are so wrapped up in power and greed that they do not want what is best for the country, it is all about them personally. What I fear ultimately is we get a bunch of weak Republicans that are republican by name only and are not really conservative, then they run against Democrats and some independents and the Republicans end up taking votes away from a good independent, only to have a democrat win.

    This government is scaring the crap out of me and I personally have never been afraid of our government before. I was never worried about the cold war, or getting attacked by terrorists. I would like our military to wake up and decide that we have domestic threats to our constitution…

    I am not ready to jump ship just yet, but it has crossed my mind to move to Texas in hopes that they would defect from the union.

    Geo

    • DaveH

      Geo,
      We need to vote for people who will promise to roll back the size of government. And don’t worry about throwing away your vote. You can see what “voting for the lesser of two evils” has gotten us. The only party I know which can appeal to a large segment of society and at the same time push for much less government is the Libertarian Party.
      I posted a link in a comment above that will take you to their platform. There are several web sites that can give you an idea of how their free-market approaches would work. Cato, Mises, and Reason (all followed by dot org for their websites) are some good ones.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Big government is a major problem Dave, and I really dont think a lot of people really understand the problem that it is. Heck just on the surface, Big Government costs us billions and billions to run, then they keep creating more of it, continually. Its got to stop. Its draining us.

        • eyeswideopen

          Hey, Beberoni, guess what, your buddy John McCain, wants corporate companies to be able to charge you for internet searches. Government wants to let it remain free, but good old John McCain, whose campaign contributions from Verizon, Aol, Time Warner, basically all of the telecommunications companies have bought the latest bill, sponsored by John. Dave, where are you on this? Here we have the nasty government trying to protect our rights and Corporate paid for, Congressman John McCain, doesn’t want it to be free for us anymore. Looks like the Republicans are once again trying to give Corporate America the upper hand.

          • MOMSRIGHT

            Dear “EYES” you have the story backwards! I don’t care for John Mc Cain either, but he is the one standing against government take over of the internet through the FCC. The government says “Oh the internet is UNFAIR! We must protect the right of the people to surf the net. Therefore, we must regulate it! Do you know that this new government regulation would require internet providers to either slow access to the internet or allow you to see only “legal” sites! Who then decideds what you can access? The government of course! Just like in Communist China!

          • MOMSRIGHT

            P.S Eyes, Corporate America, and BIG business are not the enimies here! They are the ones who create jobs, discover new innovations, and pay the Presidents salary! Along, with the rest of us regular Joes! When Gov. is done distroying private enterprise most of the country will be out of work, then how will Obama pay for all his hope and change?

          • eyeswideopen

            Moms, I know it seems like that, but the government is supporting Net Neutrality, which means the broadband providers cannot block or hinder the internet traffic of any web site. John, is on the other side with the Telcoisp group, who wants to be able to charge and block traffic. Here is the link which explains it fairly well.

            http://www.pcworld.com/Article/174280/surprise_mccain_biggest_beneficiary_of_telcoisp_lobby_money.html

          • eyeswideopen

            Momsright, it will give you page not found, just type in John McCain and it will take you to article.

          • eyeswideopen

            Mom, John McCain in the search box.

          • DaveH

            Oh yeah, I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help you. You are such a Liberal Joke Eyeswideshut.
            Have any of you ever experienced a problem with going where you want on the Internet? If you raise chickens, Eyes can probably set you up with a Fox that is trained to protect them. Sure.

          • DaveH

            MomsRight,
            No, she doesn’t have her story backwards, at least not accidentally. She is determined to spew as much Liberal misinformation as possible. Eyes is a far-left ideologue, who is determined to disrupt the freedom-seeking commenters on this site.

          • seeitgotohell

            United Corporation of America. Need I say more.

          • DaveH

            Oh, woe is us! The Internet Providers might charge us to do searches. Why should we tolerate that when we can pay the Government twice as much to protect us? But who do we pay to protect us from the Government?

          • DaveH

            The FCC needs to be abolished. It was created under the belief that there were a limited number of airwaves for broadcast. That is no longer true, and even if it were the FCC has become a tool for the government to regulate free speech. And there are certainly no such limitations (airwaves) for the internet. The Obama gang is just trying to silence our voices – the first thing necessary for any tyranny to succeed.

          • ccg

            It seems like most of the radio stations around here are in Spanish.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            For one, I dont care for John McCain. He is a liberal posing as a conservative. Capish? He reached across the aisle to your guys one time too many, at the cost of a strong America, trying to appease your guys, thinking that maybe they would work together if he did. No such chance of that. Second, you lie with your statements. He isnt for the things you say. And thirdly, dont mistake the Republican party as being John McCain. The guy is a career politician that is 150 years old and on his way out. Sarah Palin would have won this election, but the repubs got it all wrong in running McCain. But if you want the truth, your guys are in bed with big business. Check it out and see all the tax breaks Heinze gets? Gee, probably nothing to do with John Kerry being married into the Heinze’s does it? You guys are all about big business, and are the rich guys. Get over yourself.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, so now it is disrupting, if you have dialogue? You must be very afraid of me to make that statement. Knowledge scares you?

          • eyeswideopen

            Beber, you didn’t see the amount of money that John McCain is getting from the telecommunications companies? I would say that he has been pretty much bought and sold.

      • Lyla

        Libertarians don’t believe in social security retirement/medicare. It is sink or swim on one’s own. So if you’ve spent your lifetime paying into them and now need them to survive, it may not be a good idea to go Libertarian. (Although Ron Paul said he would be tempted to make an exception for seniors in this case BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO RELY ON). But Obama’s massive spending on pet social programs may combust the dollar which will in future buy little of what’s been promised.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Im 51, and have paid into social security for 35 years now. When Im 66 and old enough to collect from it, I truly do not believe it will be around. That is 15 more years, plus the 35 equals 50 years of getting fleeced by the government, with no return. Illegal aliens collect more than I will, and that is why we do not want the government running things. And some of you want them to run our health care system? God help us.

  • Guy in NM

    There is a lot of great information on the history of land rights on the web. Do a search on “allodial” – you will be amazed and have a terrific conversation subject at your next company party. Thanks John for giving us the term allodial – I’ve never heard of it and I work in the title business! We’ve always dealt with “fee simple” and “equitable title”. We were set up to be taxed on our land by our constitution. This will be next to impossible to change, but it is the kind of “change” I’d like to see.

  • Only human

    I can only assume from Mr. Bauman’s article that he not only respects but applauds the immigrants of the south who have come to our country. I truly agree that the degree of intelligence and fortitued of the Spanish speakers is something that I am searching in myself. Of course when Bush was President I thought of going to Canada but they do speak English so that is not as great a jump.
    Kudos to Mr. Bauman for pointing out the true meaning of immigration and dual citizenship!
    Thanks!

  • David

    As I retiree, my number 1 quandry is how to survive when the dollar crashes? No matter what your financial plan is, if it is in dollars, it is in jeopardy. What good will my pension and SS benefits be in any country when the dollar is worthless?

    It seems the best plan is to own your own land, and be prepared to survive without any income.

    Yes, this is a worst case scenario, but it has become a real possiblity.

    • Lyla

      You won’t make it through without health care, dental etc. You’ll have an extremely poor quality of life, i.e. pliers to pull out a bad tooth? No man is an island.

      • ccg

        Lyla, My family and I have spent 2/3′s of our lives without health insurance. You know what? We paid as we went. We didn’t ask for handouts either. When we went to the Dr. we paid for it. When we bought our prescriptions we paid for it. This is why we are in trouble now, we have to have someone else paying for it.
        We actually put money back every paycheck for emergencies and then we ended up putting the money as it built up into a CD. It made us pay attention to our health a lot more as we were the ones responsible for it, not someone else.
        I realize that doesn’t work for everyone, but there is a thing called personal responsibility.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          That and common sense died in the country a long time ago. No one can be held responsible for the things they do anymore. Its always someone elses fault, and our corrupt judges and penal systems makes sure the innocent pay and the guilty walk. Get drunk, its the bartenders fault. Kill someone, its the drugs and alcohols fault. Kill your wife OJ, and its whiteys fault because the white cop said something he shouldnt have. Evidence doesnt matter. Its just all gone wrong, because everyone is now a victim, except the victim, and its always someone elses fault. What a bunch of baloney. Sooner or later its going to revert back to the old west days where people are going to get tired of it and start taking the law into their own hands just get a slice of justice, because our courts arent interested in that anymore.

  • s c

    Most Americans wil never have the great luxury of having an ultimte estate plan. If a nation can muster true leadership and nurture it, no one would think twice about n ultimate estate plan. We were given the greatest government ever created. It was created by the greatest collection of intellect ever assembled in one nation.
    Through genertions of indifference and self-enforced non-thinking, America is on the verge of collapse. People, you might as well get used to the idea of staying here. THIS is where the battle is.
    We can resurrect America. It will not be easy, especially in trying to convince some citizens that government in general (and big government in particular) can be your worst enemy. The seeds of tyranny were planted here before we were born. They must be exposed and destroyed.
    We have two choices. First, be Americans and protect the Constitution. Second, leave America, and admit that King George wasn’t such a bad guy.

  • Steve

    We are seeing a strong backlash in conservative thinking in this country as we recognize some of what has been perpetrated on America in this last election. In our exuberance to create a third party, fourth, fifth party… we have seen the divide and conquer phenomena come back on us. We have a majority rule system and we have to pull together in the major party reflecting our views or as has been said in the past we will surely hang separately. As much as I admired Ross Perot, he split the conservative movement and the liberals won out creating the worst of possible outcomes. We should learn from that and take it to heart.

    • http://priscilla.perez@lnfre.com Maria

      Perfet example of this splitting is NJ. The 3rd party will allow Corzine to get back in. We need to identity the real Conservatives in the Republican Party and get them in office. We need to turn this party around to being Conservative if we have any hope of getting this country back. We also desperately need term limits for Congress, since this is our worst enemy right now preventing us from making any changes to cut the spending that both Republicans and Dems have been responsible for.

      • DaveH

        Maria,
        The lesser of two evils is still evil. Just ask Eyes, who doesn’t read a Liberal commentator that she doesn’t agree with.
        The Republicans have had 20 years to get it together. Do we have 20 more years? And no, I do not support Democrats.

      • eyeswideopen

        Maria, well, in New York, Palin, just decided to support Doug Hoffman, instead of the Republican candidate. Mike Huckabee has refused to endorse Doug, but Palin is going Rogue or Rouge.LoL. That kind of stuff, is why the Democrats get wins where they shouldn’t. I guess she has become the Republican Party Chairman when Steele wasn’t looking.

        • DaveH

          Fraud.

        • DaveH

          “why the Democrats get wins where they shouldn’t.”
          Who are you kidding, Eyes? You haven’t seen a Liberal cause that you don’t adore. Who hired you Eyes? ACORN? SEIU? The Apollo Alliance? Color of Money?

          • Lyla

            Don’t worry. When Americans get a snoot full of expensive health care and tax and trade, they will arise as never before and will force out crooked politicians. We should also take back our offshored jobs. Fear not, taxed-to-the-gills Americans will not take it sitting down!

          • ccg

            Lyla, you said it. We won’t take it lying down that is for sure!!

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          The dems stick together right or wrong. Sad state of affairs. A guy can be a total crook, a murderer, a total drunk, totally unfit for office, and the democrats will stand by him, right Ted Kennedy? There is no honor in the words you say, about them winning when they shouldnt, because they are so immoral they dont care if a guy is a leper or not. Shame on you.

          • eyeswideopen

            Yep, they are just like us, Vitter, sex with three different prostitutes, Ensign, paying off mistress family, 99k and the list goes on. You can’t comdemn others for the same thing that the Repubs are doing. Both parties have issues and anyone who is guilty of moral turpitude should be removed from office immediately.

          • ccg

            Bebe, Kennedy was a prime example of that. Liar, sex addict, murderer, but got away with it all, and still held in high esteem by the dumocrats.

  • Ron Deere

    Guys,
    It’s REALLY sad that this country has gotten SO BAD that a lot of people are actually thinking about leaving not only the U.S. but also their U.S. citizenship. 16 years ago I was relishing leaving the U.S. just because it had gotten SO BAD, but had no clue about where to go. It turns out that both of our sons are looking to go into being missionaries within four years – one to Spain and one to some Muslim nation. Hey, my wife & I may join them – six months with one and six months with the other.

  • http://none Marisa Garcia

    How about instead of moving to another country we demand termination of IRS and start the Fair Tax system? Are we not americans citizens of the land of the free and home of the brave?

    • DaveH

      We used to be.

    • eyeswideopen

      Huckabee proposed that, and like idiots we didn’t endorse him. Repubs thought he was too radical. Republicans got exactly what we deserved.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Hey eyes, we agree on something. Huckabee is a good man.

    • Fed Up Gal in NM

      I’m with you, Marisa. So far, the Fair Tax movement seems to be the only tax that seems remotely “fair”! That way, if you wanted to buy a big screen TV, you’re paying the tax on that at the time you purchase it….not for life! I realize there is a more to it than that, but what I’ve reviewed is much more fair …. across the board! Isn’t that what we should be striving for?

      Fed Up Gal in NM

  • http://windowsinternetexplorer gary r. heiser summerville s. c.

    i’am leaving. i’am taking my US Navy pension / before it is taxed to death. and getting out of here. best place to go is the philippines. they welcome foreigners. and you can apply for a dual citizenship. it would be stuip to give up my US

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Not me, Im an American to the bone. I will stay here and fight to make things right, even if it kills me. Im not going to run and let the blood suckers have it their way. I will fight all I can, up to and including my last dying breath. They arent in control, God is. Thats just how it is, like it or not. With Him on my side, I dont fear them. What can they do? Nothing.

      • DaveH

        Kudos Beberoni.

      • American Citizen

        This is true no matter what you are in, country, church, organization or political party. Unless you stay and fight for right, it will be taken over by those who would bring it down. If you leave, they win.

        • Andy

          I hope that Judge in Santa Ana changes the date from Jan. 26 10 to Nov.
          13 09., for Mr. big “O” and I don’t mean big “O” tire Co.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          And this might be why we are in the state of left wing politics we are in now. Last election, the dems were very good at rallying their voters to get out and vote. The repubs not so much. A whole lot of people didnt vote because they didnt want a 150 year old man for president, so they quit fighting and let the liberals have their way. So those that now complain and didnt vote, this is your fault. Next time dont give up the fight so easy, because the sure fire way for the enemy to win is to quit fighting.

  • http://windowsinternetexplorer gary r. heiser summerville s. c.

    it would be stupid to give up my citizenship. or go turn my passport in. i’ll just take my $$$ and invest it into the filipino economy. i’ll convert my $$$ over to pesos hopefully before the US dollar is worthless. i’ll still exercise my right to vote. but i don’t have hope for this country. with the clowns we have in Washington D C running this country. that is both the democratic and republicians parties. oh well i’ll have cable television many channels in the philippines. $ 14.00 a month. internet service at $ 15.00 a month. so i can watch both parties destroy THE CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES. and our beloved country. my target date to move is July 2010. hey i can watch the revolution in the united states in the philippines. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA oh well. I didn’t vote obama into office. don’t blame me. HA HA HA HA HA.ps. just wait until the obama administration gives all illegals running around in this country. US citizenship before the end of december 2009. that will be a christmas present from the american people. HA HA HA HA HA HA. told you so. i have been voting since 1970. in every major election. a conservative. i know very well what happening to our country. have fun america.

    • eyeswideopen

      Gary, It is amazing that you think that someone was able to desimate this country in 9months. Where have you been for the last 12 years? Who do you think deregulated the Banking industry? What year did they do that? Who passed on the biggest deficit in history? Who passed a Medicare Advantage Bill to the tune of 1.1 trillion, with no funding? Who started two wars, while cutting taxes, leaving no funding for the equipment for the troops? Who didn’t pass immigration laws while having control of both houses of Congress for 12 years? Who do you think had control of the Congress during Clinton’s years? Who took our rights away when they passed the Patriot Act? Who was and is still in charge of the Federal Reserve? WHo didn’t try and wean us from oil dependence? Who never addressed the healthcare problems during the past 10 years? Let me make it easy for you, the answer is :Republicans. Before you complain you should check to see who held the power in both houses of Congress from 1995 till Jan 2007. Fiscal responsibility is something that the Republicans can no longer claim is their forte.

      • DaveH

        Are you still spreading that ‘deregulation’ manure Eyes? How many times must I post these articles?
        http://reason.org/news/printer/the-myth-of-financial-deregula

        • eyeswideopen

          Since it all comes from the right, it doesn’t matter. I know how to read and I and most of the non-partisian economic historians, can see that we didn’t have any problems until deregulation in 1986 and then again 1999. So history backs up the rationale that we had no problems until we decided to “Let the BULL run”. Dave, you must be a super wealthy person in sheeps skin, as you are for full, non controled Corporate greed. Only someone who is benefiting from a free running banking system and corporate socialism would have your views. Give me just one reason why any of the Corporate 500 should be getting government subsidies?

          • DaveH

            And you are for full, non-controlled Socialist greed. You are so jealous of anybody who works hard and succeeds. Never mind what any of them had to give up to achieve their wealth, or the fact that they give millions of people a chance to earn a good living. We should all stoop to the lowest common denominator and tear down our fellow citizens like the good citizen Eyes does. We may end up like Cuba but at least we will all be equal in your Green-tinted glasses.

          • DaveH

            You know Eyes, Jealosy is one of the seven deadly sins. How many others are you guilty of?

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, I’m not the one attacking you, telling you to go down in a hole, you are pissed off because you were trying to use the Libertarian Think Tank talking points on why the economy failed and I finally had enough and busted you. Nobody hired me, why is it, if any one questions or can prove any of you wrong, there must be some kind of conspiracy? You must be getting paid by the people that “we” have deemed to be the “bad guys”? Crap, Dave, it’s easy, just question and research. With your credentials you should be trying to educate and not trying to sway people to a party that is not viable.

          • DaveH

            Eyes, anyone who reads all your posts knows how hateful you are. You constantly attack anyone who gives opinions and facts contrary to yours. You are not smart – you are verbose, that is all.

        • eyeswideopen

          Dave, I am not stupid, Reason Foundation, gets funding from Exxon, Phillip Morris plus many more and the board consists of Dunn Capital Mgt, Breach Investmemnt Counsel, etc. in addition the senior editor Jacon Sullum is very supporative of the Tabacco Industry. But the reason I’m really not buying what the are selling is that it is known as ; THE LIBERTARIAN THINK TANK. Please don’t insult me, I know you are promoting your party platform and I also know that you are a corporate junkie. If you want to really find the reason of failure why aren’t you recommending the economists from around the world, whose markets crashed with ours and offer up their view points? Well, that would probably spoil your game of wanting no regulations.

          • DaveH

            So who pays you Eyes to spread your Liberal Venom?
            You are definitely not who you say you are.

          • DaveH

            You attack the banks constantly. No doubt you are all for Obama’s attempt to determine salary for bank officers, even the banks that did not take the Government’s bailout money.
            Here’s a question. What about the exhorbitant ticket prices the entertainment industry charges for their concerts? $50, $100, even $200 dollars a ticket. Of course, you won’t burn your Liberal cohorts. You are just a spokesperson for the Liberal Left.
            You sure do fight a lot for a disinterested ex-Republican. I’m on to you Eyes, and you can’t stand it. Fraud.

          • eyeswideopen

            What’s the matter Dave, you are used to just throwing crap out there that nobody questions? Too bad, I read, I want to learn, I just won’t accept statements that are made to try and influence the throngs. Americans have been hoodwinked for too many generations. I am on to you DaveH. and it is insulting that you think the people on this site, will just swallow anything you put out there. I became very suspect when you never answered anyones questions about how Libertarianism would work.

          • DaveH

            You don’t learn. Who are you kidding? You spew the same Liberal crap that we’ve been hearing for decades from the Left as they take our economy further and further down the road to destruction. So we should take more economic advice from the losers? Your ways have failed miserably. You won’t throw in the towel, though. Your kind never does.

          • DaveH

            Too bad you can’t remove my links. There is nothing you can do now to keep these people from learning for themselves. Face it, you are irrelevant. Liberal Apparatchik.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, you are not reading correctly, I have never attacked the Community Banks, or the Banks that didn’t take the Tarp funds. What I am attacking is the selling and trading of a concept that most of the bankers cannot even explain. I am attacking the fraud and deception that has been allowed to blossom in our markets and am a firm believer in history. You need to study what Regan did and you will see almost an identical scenario of when the Savings and Loan failed.
            History, if we pay attention, it can save us.

          • DaveH

            Anybody who is so foolish as to assign credibility to Eyes misinformation on the current state of our economy should just get a copy of Thomas Sowell’s “The Housing Boom and Bust” and learn the truth.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, here are your mantras: Government is force, Read Sowells book, hand in my pocket, Libertarian party is the only one that can save us. You didn’t answer me when I asked why Ron Paul took that 75 million in earmarks? Shouldn’t he have said, no, I don’t believe in big government, Government is force, and my district will be cutting back on its needs? He is just as bad as all the rest. Everybody is in it for what they can get. He is no Demi-God the way you protray him. His name is listed with 75 million dollars in earmarks, next to it for his district. No big government my arse. He is a hypocrite, just like the rest. I bet his excuse would be that another congressman got the money for him, so he wouldn’t have to ask and besmirch his values. He has the title, he got the money, he is not above the rest.

          • DaveH

            All that Hate. I pity your husband (or wife). You are just a bitter, jealous person who has nothing better to do than to attempt to tear others down.

          • DaveH

            I think I’m going to have to quit communicating with you Eyes, until I have made sure my Rabies shots are up-to-date.

      • DaveH

        Here’s another:
        http://mises.org/story/3548

      • DaveH
        • eyeswideopen

          http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/is_the_financial_crisis_leading_to_a_new_global_order/

          You need to stop reading those biased reports that your Libertarian Think Tank is producing.

          • DaveH

            Oh yeah. We should all take our information from you Liberal Double-Speakers. Crawl back in your hole.

          • eyeswideopen

            Poor Dave.

          • DaveH

            “biased reports”? What would be their incentive? Anybody with half-a-brain can figure out that those with leadership positions have the most to lose from competition. So who is more likely to produce biased propaganda, those who have something to protect, or those who don’t?

          • DaveH

            We’ve been following the Big Government heavy-regulation course for 60 years now. It’s a failure. Anybody without Eyes-Wide-Shut can see that.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, didn’t anybody tell you that our system worked well, until the deregulation of the savings and loan companies? Bush Sr. had to bail our 747 of them to the tune of 124.6 billion dollars. Denial, denial, denial.

      • American Citizen

        I take it you mean the Democrat party that was in power for 40 years.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        And the repubs did not have control all those years. If so, then can you tell me how the MAJORITY DEMOCRATS were able to filabuster things? Yeah, it takes a majority to do that, so you are in error.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        EYES,

        Regarding your reply to Gary, I don’t agree that leaving the country is the best way (at least it’s not the option I wish to make), however it’s a decision Gary seems comfortable with. He still has that right.

        Maybe I missed it, but I did not see in Gary’s comments (which generated your reply) that he said the country was “desimated in nine months”. I understood his comments to mean he is extremely dissatisfied with the way the WASHINGTON crowd has been running the country for quite some time(including, during and since the last election). Washington crowd generally includes more than “just” the President.

        It seems (at least to me), as if you feel you must antagonize folks who post comments you don’t agree with. There’s nothing wrong with having a lively and hopefully civil debate to make a point on either side. I just don’t see the purpose in trying to belittle people who may post different opinions than you might appreciate viewing, especially if they are not indignant remarks.

        It almost seems like you are not happy until you’ve poked and prodded folks (ex: Beberoni, Dave H, Liberty Train, etc) into getting frustrated or angy with you.

        One more thing please; not all women agree with your comment ”
        The civil war may be us women fighting against the old Republican men who don’t think we should have a right to vote”. Why, you wonder? Because your examples are misleading and seem to be made in an effort to aggitate (not educate or possible negotiate).

        You either negligently or purposely failed to reference the progress made by minority men and women, appointed to several of the previous President’s administration. Very disingenous EYES to use wrong doings from the past to try to erroneously reflect what may or may not be happening in the present.

        Of course, I could be wrong…..and I’m sure you will find a way to let me know if you think I am…..just try and keep it respectful, please.

        • libertytrain

          Fed Up Gal – you’re good.

          • Fed Up Gal in NM

            Thank you Liberty,

            Well…..maybe there’s something to that old addage that “with age, come wisdom.”………..or maybe not…LoL. Thanks for your comment.

            Fed Up Gal

    • DaveH

      So I guess Eyes’ solution to those dastardly Republicans is for the Democrat leaders to win hands down on the spending war.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4nnEjknkXA

      • eyeswideopen

        DAVE, how do you think Medicare Advantage is being paid for now? You Boy, Glenn, is really pointing out that the Republicans didn’t pay for the 1.1 trillion dollar bill that they passed. But Big Phrma is getting really really wealthy off of that bill. 200 billion a year. Nice change/coin. This bill was passed in the middle of the night and had a scandal attached. Look up, Congressman Nick Smith, and read about how this bill was passed. Tom Delay is under indictment relating to this scandal. Somebody wanted big business to make a whole lot of money, without the government being able to negotiate prices. Why would they want that? Hurt the taxpayers? NO!!

        • DaveH

          You’re the one that wants Big Government, not me. As Government Grows Corruption Flows.
          Now that you mention it. Funny, I have never had anything but polite treatment by my bankers. Not so from government workers. Sometimes, for sure, there are shining lights that break the mold, but mostly I’ve been treated contemptuously by government workers. And I can’t even tell you accurately how much money I pay the banks (pretty miniscule), but I have had to pay the IRS tens of thousands of dollars each year in most years that I worked. And on top of that rip-off I’ve experienced severe harassment from the taxing authorities. Let’s see, who should I choose to be my friends, the IRS, or the Banks. DUH.

          • Normal Guy

            DaveH

            Well you are going on again about your Libertarian solution. So like I said here is a little information about the Libertarian Failure in New Zealand, to go along with the Libertarian failure in Chile. You can verify the stats in numerous cross references. The source of this info is indicated at the bottom. Libertarianism is unworkable. The problem as I have stated before is that coercion is exercised by anyone with power, individuals, corporations or governments. Citizens have more influence over government than they do corporations or individuals and this is why government exist in every country, people have found this to be the best solution. Libertarianism is unworkable.

            The 15-year free market experiment in New Zealand from 1984 to 1999 was been an unmitigated disaster. The suffering caused among ordinary New Zealanders is well known: the highest youth suicide rate in the developed world; the proliferation of food banks; huge increases in violent and other crime; the bankruptcy of half the farms in the country; the economic disruption of hundreds of thousands of lives; health care, education and other social services devastated by the mad marketplace scientists.

            Incidentally, the private emphasis on healthcare, education, and social services meant that the poor were in essence taxed more heavily because these essential services required a larger percentage of their incomes.

            They failed on every count. As for the debt in 1984, it was NZ$22-billion, but after 10 years of experimenting, it had doubled to NZ$45-billion — in spite of the sell-off of NZ$16-billion in state enterprises. Today, it has finally returned to 1984 levels, but only through more Crown asset sales.

            And economic growth? In the years 1985-92, average economic growth in the OECD countries totalled 20%, while in New Zealand it was negative, at -1%. The promised creation of enormous new wealth went into reverse: Real GDP in 1992, at 5%, was below the 1985-86 level. A burst of growth from 1993 to 1995 petered out, and the economy steadily declined until it dipped into negative territory in 1998, posting the fourth-worst growth in the OECD.

            The transformation of the economy was supposed to spur foreign investment, but it mostly meant a feeding frenzy on domestic corporate assets. In 1993, the proportion of GDP in investments was just 70% of what it was in 1984.

            The restructuring of the economy failed most dramatically on the unemployment front, and the country has never managed to get back to anywhere near the 1984 level of 4%. The “workless and wanting work” figure peaked at more than 18% in 1993. In 1999, that figure had been reduced only to 11.2%.

            After eight years of restructuring and massive labour deregulation, New Zealand’s productivity began a steady decline in comparison with its neighbour, Australia. From 1978 to 1990, the rates had been similar. The gap steadily increased between 1990 and 1998, with Australia posting a 21.9% increase and New Zealand just 5.2%.

            Only the wealthy in New Zealand could see any benefit from this destructive exercise in social engineering. Between 1984 and 1996, the top 10% of income earners measurably increased their share of total income. The lowest 10% lost 21.6% of their 1984 income. More than 50% of the total working population had lower real income in 1996 than in 1984.

            Source
            August 15, 2000 in The National Post (Canada

          • DaveH

            More misinformation from Normal Liberal. Are you going to take Normal Liberal’s word on this or Cato Institutes?
            http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v31n1/cpr31n1-1.html

          • DaveH

            Before you take Normal Double-Speakers word for anything, do your own independant research. He likes to make examples of originally poor countries that are still progressing in an effort to discredit Libertarians.
            http://www.theodora.com/wfbcurrent/new_zealand/new_zealand_economy.html
            All you have to do is ask yourselves “Has the Big Government experiment worked?”. If so, why are we in the mess we’re in right now? Did Big Government somehow mysteriously and invisably shrink in the last 20 years? We don’t have to look to Chile or New Zealand or any other misinformation Normal Liberal provides. All we need to do is look at what is right in front of our noses.

          • DaveH

            Here is a free online book that you can read if you want to take the blinders off and learn what motivates Big Government and its supporters like Eyeswideshut and Normal Liberal.
            http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf

          • DaveH

            By the way, notice that the article cited by Normal Double-Speaker is 10 years old.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Dave, this is to Normal Guy. You cite the elections in New Zealand? Chile? Your not comparing apples to apples. Like comparing Ahmadinejad to Obama. Oh wait, that ones to close, dont use that one. But elections of Libertarians in New Zealand and Chile arent quite the same as here.

          • eyeswideopen

            No, Dave, I think we should take the biased Cato Institute’s information. How about using the non-biased information for a change? Everything you put out here is biased toward the Libertarian platform. Americans have not been lured into that thinking, as your Membership has only grown to under one million since 1971. Anarchy is something that most of us want to avoid.

  • Unconventual

    It’s no longer voting for “the lesser of two evils” – it’s now voting for the “evil of two lessers!” The independents & libertarians need to wake up this country. The Constitution may not be perfect, but it’s certainly better than the government we have today. If 1st Adm. political speech was limited to living breathing people – no associations, no PACs, no corporations & donations were limited to candidates within your jurisdiction (with a strict limit on amount) – what a difference you would see in politics.

    • DaveH

      Un,
      I believe our biggest problem is to awaken the people to the fact that “Hopes and Dreams” are not Reality.
      If Obama and his crew gain absolute power those Dreamers are going to find that they are just stepping stones who will be crushed under the boots of Big Government.
      There is no free lunch! To get the good things in life requires hard work, sacrifice, and informed risks. The best way we can achieve good lives for all is to free the people to become the best they can become.

      • BOE

        Dave I agree with everything you say and eyes is just an idiot. But to both of you I have to say this is way bigger than most people can imagine, Obama plans on being the world leader. He has George Soros and other big money people behind him. They plan to ruin all of us financially,they are planning a large event that will cause food,gas and just basic needs products..they will then have us at the mercy of the new world order. Obama is the anti-Christ.

        • DaveH

          Thank you BOE. I appreciate your support.
          I also believe Obama has ulterior motives. If he wasn’t up to no good He wouldn’t be pushing so hard and trying to change things so fast. He is trying to “Shock and Awe” the citizens before they have time to think about things. Like any good Car Salesman.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You mean like a snake oil salesman.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, you still can’t and haven’t been able to quote what he has changed so fast. What is his impeachable offense and what new program has been passed? Same two questions time and time again, with your response that he is a dictator, socialist, stepping on the necks of the citizens. How about just answering one of the two questions?

  • Bob D

    Congress, Senators and Presidents for over 20 years have been doing things to destroy our freedoms. Obama has just speeded the process up.

    It is extremely that the Democratic or Republican parties will ever do anything to reverse the damage they have done and are sitil doing.

    It is time to get vote them all out with the exception of Ron Paul and possibly 3-5 others. Then get behind the Constitution Party who stand for Government of the people, for the people and by the people), and less government.
    It is also required that people get their information from other sources than the paid for and controlled regular media.

  • Homer Sims

    The one thing that has been overlooked in all this is that this country has forgottemn God! they kicked HIM out of schools and the courts and they have made it illegal to pray in school and I am NOT surprised that God has given man over to himsel. The old saying goes like this; IT IS BACK to the Bible or back to the Jungle! Wake up people! Pray to God for His help and mercy, maybe He will return unto us! Bruce

  • http://www.strikeback2010.com mike scooter

    I’ll stay here, stay in the fight to redeem our country. If there is a collapse (which seems possible) it is foolish to go chasing green grass elsewhere. There may be none. Besides, I’d care to guess that during a global economic collapse seen as being caused by the US, do you really want to be an expat in Paraguay?! We, here, are the most likely to do the best…fix things first…we’re Americans! It is, however, not going to be easy. If Texas bails, I’m probably going to apply for dual citizenship there!

    The biggest thing it seems in my mind to do is to get politically active, *now*, and *stay* that way. Now is not too early to find a candidate you can live with, and *help* that candidate in getting ready for 2010. I’m doing this: http://www.strikeback2010.com, and am already working for two campaigns for reasonable candidates.

    • Banker

      Mike, I’m with you. I’m staying. And I hope Texas does bail. This government can only push those Texans so far. I think the Washington parasites, uh, I meant politicians, should remember the motto that Texas rallied under years ago. “Remember the Alamo”. Once Texas secedes The Bronx will follow. And the Yankees are comming with us.

  • seeitgotohell

    Leaving the country is tempting. Then again, running away from your problems always is. Our parents and their parents started this mess and we are continuing to contribute to their failings. It is our responsibility to end this cycle. Think of your children and their children. That is what our founding fathers did and it created the greatest country on Earth. You do not abandon a town because the streets get dirty, you get out there and clean them up before the pollution gets so bad that it becomes inhabitable.

    • seeitgotohell

      Uninhabitable.

  • DaveH

    So now the Usurper is trying to use his power to control the salaries of banking officials. He has appointed a czar to set their salaries.
    From the Washington Post:
    “U.S. pay czar Kenneth Feinberg emphasized his ability to claw back pay at any company receiving a taxpayer bailout, but said such an extreme action ‘will be rare and far between.’ Feinberg said he has not really explored how he would use the claw-back power and would only exercise it when he finds “an egregious fact pattern.”
    No doubt that ‘egregious fact pattern’ will be – do they or do they not support Obama’s policies.
    The Obama gang is also exploring ways to control the salaries of companies that haven’t accepted bailout money.
    We need to contact our Representatives and give them this simple message “I will be actively campaigning against any Congressman who does not use his Constitutional Congressional powers to stop Obama from usurping his presidential powers, as he is currently doing in his attempt to control the banking industry”.

    • DaveH

      Oh boy, here comes Zombie Eyes to defend the Usurper. Has anybody ever heard him/her say one bad thing about Obama’s policies? Of course not, because he/she is one of the gang. Obviously a Big Government supporter sent to misinform and disrupt this board.
      Big Government is the problem, not the solution.

      • Normal Guy

        DaveH

        As usual an attack but no response. I Some right wing libertarian conspiracy site quotes that parrots what is constantly repeated on this site.

        You and your friends need to give up the hate speak, paranoia. You go on about the collapse of the country but instead of working on solutions you spew rhetoric and survivalist concepts not useful for building the country.

        You go on about how bad what the US is doing , we are the world leader, you state that Obama has an agenda to destroy the country – PARANOID DELUSIONS – you state that people who work hard and succeed are being torn down by the policies of the government. Well, I work hard and have succeeded, I employ lots of people and am happy that the democrats are in. The neo-cons did some serious damage to the economy by allowing massive “bubbles” to inflate – real estate and financial – and damage the economy, for the US to engage in expensive and destructive wars, medicare without funding etc etc.

        Things are getting better, you and your pals are exposing yourselves to the American people for the crazies that you are. Support for the right is declining _see the`Washington Post this week, wake up – you and your friends are the problem. Stop betting on the collapse and get to work, I can tell you from experience that there are fantastic opportunities in this country today. The information and technology revolution that we are in the middle of is disruptive but full of once in a lifetime opportunities.

        • DaveH

          I told you before Normal Double-Speaker, I am usually not going to bother carrying on a dialogue with you. It is useless to converse with someone who will make up whatever verbal ammunition he can to support his cause.
          All I can say to the other readers of this board is that you need to check Normal Liberal’s facts carefully before you buy into any. He can’t be trusted to be honest.

          • Normal Guy

            As always no real reponse, no refuting anything just cries that it is not true. Oh in regard to the date, that was the end of the first fifteen years of the experiment. Seems like long enough to evaluate the performance. You are really pitiful, if you have such strong beliefs get past the rhetoric and do some research beyond your propaganda sites. Your beliefs are vacuous.

            Incidently, cleaning out inefficiancies and reducing government size is a good idea. It does not require Libertarianism.

          • DaveH

            Cry me a river Normal Double-Speaker. By the way, you should use spell-check on your comments. Maybe then people would believe you employ 30 people.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Hello boys and girls. Can you spell C-R-A-C-K?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The left will always stick together whether right or wrong, because they have no morals Dave, and they dont care about the United States of America, and they have no vested interest at all in what is right and what is wrong. To them, if there is something in there that furthers their agenda, then its ok. Other than that, they have no interest. Now guys like Normal Guy, Eyes, Norm and their ilk, will come and attack you and call you a hater and all that normal left wing liberal jibberish, because dog gone it Dave, the truth just shakes them to their core, and when the truth hits them, they freak because they dont know what it is, only that they need to defend themselves because their conscience reminds them that they are wrong, but they wont listen to it.

    • Norm

      DaveH
      Let’s pretend a family member came to you and begged you for money because he was going broke by ingaging in risky, stupid and shady (at best) behavior. Now let’s suppose, after long deliberation, you concluded that it was best to lend him the money for the good of the rest of your friends and family. He then takes your money, which he promised to pay you back with interest, and goes on wild and totally undeserved spending spree. Don’t you think that it is your right and duty to stop this behavior in any way that you can? Doesn’t the phrase “beggers can’t be choosers” make sense to you?
      When the “free enterprize” boys pay the taxpayers back every dime they took from a very nervous government (including the Bush adminstration, then they can pay their managment any amount they can get away with. I think some large tax increases can then sop up some of that extra gravey.

      • DaveH

        Norm,
        This isn’t about paying back the money. Unless the contract they signed when they borrowed the money specifically said the government can set their salaries, then it is pure government intrusion into private business. If I had my way our money wouldn’t have been lent to them in the first place.
        Norm, when you have read the book “The Housing Boom and Bust” by Thomas Sowell (a great economist who also happens to be black) then we will talk.

        • eyeswideopen

          Now you are using a mans color to sell a concept? lol.

          • Fed Up Gal in NM

            EYES,

            Why would you make such a statement? Reference your comment to Dave “Now you are using a mans color to sell a concept? lol”. Very tacky…Do you even hear yourself? What happen to using a bit of class or finesse when making a point?

            Although I don’t agree with many of your opinions, you are entitled to each and every one of them. I’m just trying to figure out how long it will take for you to realize you repeatedly “miss” perfectly good opportunities to “share” your viewpoint in a way people may actually want to hear what it is. I just don’t get it.

          • libertytrain

            Fed Up – again another excellent thought -

      • DaveH

        Norm,
        Let’s change the story a little bit. Your brother turns his friend (Sam) onto a drug dealer. Sam then gets hooked on heroin. Sam then threatens your brother with a lawsuit for sending the drug dealer his way. So your brother lends him money which Sam promptly spends on more drugs. So again, under duress from Sam your brother lends Sam even more money even though he is pretty sure he isn’t going to get it back. Now your brother is not able to make his house payment, so he asks you to bail him out. But you don’t bail him out with your own money, rather you lend him money from a fund which has been trusted to your safekeeping.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Money that you were never supposed to touch, that was the property of another.

  • tagley

    Eyeswideopen is a obamabot troll, nuff said.

    • Norm

      STICKS AND STONES WILL BREAK MY BONES BUT NAMES WILL NEVER HURT ME. YA YA YA.

      • Dennis

        Sticks $ Stones my not break your bones but Obama will.

      • ccg

        Norm, that really sounds all grown up. NOT

        • eyeswideopen

          and obamanutroll is grown up? You never question your own do you? Always on the attack, never hold your own responsible. And you are supposed to be the religious one aren’t you?

          • ccg

            eyes, you said in a later post and I quote:
            “Maybe it is how you approach people and the distain that you show here for government workers, I’m sure they can sense your contempt for them. Dave, when you are nice to people, they usually are nice back, try it for a while and you will be surprised.”

            Why don’t you try it sometime. Half of the time you don’t make sense. All of the time we can all tell you just want to argue. You are loved as much as you can love a pebble in your shoe. That ought to make you happy.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Please Norm, get some help. There are many rehab clinics for people like you.

        • ccg

          And take eyes with you.

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    I’m new to this particular site, so I won’t pretend to be an expert on either side of the political spectrum; I do however feel compelled to add my “two” cents (or maybe more like 99-cents).

    Although I don’t neccessarily agree with every single point David makes (and others with similar viewpoints), I do tend to agree with them in general. Before someone on one side or the other decides “she must be a plant for the other side”, I’ll just “fess” up that I am a registered Republican…mainly because I feel “my” conservative values are more likely to be represented in this group than not. Of course, reality at times…rears it’s ugly head; meaning it sometimes becomes apparent that a Republican/Democrat/Libertarian politician (or person for that matter) ran on a platform of “personal freedom goes along with personal responsibility”, to find out the platform becomes a rug once elected!

    From my own perspective, living in NM does provide beautiful sunrises and sunsets, and I am fortunate to be blessed with taking in such beautiful sights. Having said that; NM has a very entrenched population of artsy/fartsy types who believe everyone should support (emotionally and financially) their version of “free” thinking (anyone who has seen the Ceramic Tiled Car on a Stick…in Albuquerque near Gibson and San Mateo Blvds, or more recent and claimed to be ART dollars displayed in haphazard ABQ locations might agree…or maybe not).

    Well, this does create quite a quandry…doesn’t it? Especially since, it’s only free or next to free for the artsies and not for those of us who end up subsidizing the Arts and Humanities even in depressed economic times such that we in NM and the country are experiencing. I do think the Arts and Humanities have a place in our lives, however NOT at a time when our state and national budget (debt) is such a disgrace! These are the things we should strive to budget back in when our overall fiancials are “rosier” for lack of a better choice of words. Should we all have “assumed” the “CHANGE” mantra was truly intended to CHANGE our budget deficit into something more palitable than it currently is (and was when the current administration and Congress was professing CHANGE during their campaigns)?

    I feel we’ve given extreme liberal thought enough rope to hang itself….the problem is people “living” in the extreme liberal camp do not wish to take responsibility for their “own” actions, for their “own” behavior…..they seem to expect everyone else to come to their self-inflicted and self victimized aid each and every time. I say “ENOUGH”! I have no problem with individual people learning life experiences through trial and error; we are human and we are “individual” …however, we should not collectively be dragged through the proverbial trial (fire pit) for an individual’s choices and/or errors.

    Another point of contention (for me) is: I have no children, but have assisted those with children in public schools for more years than I care to count. It’s not that I mind helping to educate our children; I do however have a problem with “indoctrinating” our children, and even with educating a family who does not assume it’s own responsibility in the process. I too am an individual and should have more of a choice on this matter, rather than being volun-told to contribute or risk having my home and any other asset I might own taken by the government.

    I realize this may likely spark a heated debate where those siding with “EYES” viewpoint will blame all the Corporations who provide the jobs…that provide “individuals” with 52″ flat panel televisions, the latest “decked out” and “cool” automobiles, cable and satellite television,….oh yes and don’t forget the internet medium, of which without he or she would not be able to express a commentary via a medium that reaches so many!

    One more thing: I also do not appreciate some people screaming they can’t afford to pay for some type of health care coverage, while running out to purchase the newest cell phone, lap top computer, big screen TV, 200-300 (plus) cable TV stations and the coolest new car. Okay, I’ll admit I’m driving a gas hound (1996 SUV with no more monthly payments). When others start taking on their own personal responsibility, I’ll start feeling more like also owning the newest and coolest vehicle…….maybe then I’ll be able to afford it!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Signed: Fed Up…but Staying to Fight the Good Fight!

    • DaveH

      Kudos Fed Up.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Thank you, Dave. I apologize….I called you David when I referenced your commentary. Might I also say…I absolutely agree with your comment regarding ACORN! Hmmmmmmm…you’re probably spot on…probably not far fetched to assume if the chiropractor and the plumbing contractor sons would have consulted with ACORN first, ACORN would have surely been able to “restructure” the loan request…resulting in a resounding “APPROVED”! To my way of thinking, these sons are trying to actually buid a business and should be at the top of the priority list…since they’ll likely employ other people. Just a thought.

    • American Citizen

      I agree, too many people “poor mouth” but have the latest innovations in the electronics as well as new vehicles, etc. It all depends upon what you want to spend your money.
      We seniors, if what I got from my Medicare D insurance co. sent, are going to have higher co-pays on drugs. Medicare upped the amount before hitting the donut hole, but also upped the amount you have to pay before it begins paying again. They put a nickel in one pocket and take a dime out of the other.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Thanks Citizen. I understand the Medicare / Part D concerns you discussed, since my Mom is experiencing the same problems. I don’t know that having the government get out of the Medicare business is neccessarily the right way to go, but I do wonder how anyone thinks the government can properly run such an important program. I mean really…..look at the great job the government has done running the Postal Service, Social Security, and the VA….although I must admit, having worked in the military and VA healthcare systems for a time…our local ABQ VA hospital does provide great care especially in the “specialty” areas, i.e., Spinal Cord Injury units and finally the Women’s Center, etc. Unfortunately I think this might be the exception rather than the rule. Of course everyone’s experience may be different, but that’s just mine. I guess the point I’m trying to make is there is a need for government, however I think there is a greater need for government to recognize the “Lead, Follow, or Get the Heck Out the Way” motto!

        • DaveH

          Government employees are not inherently lazy. It’s just that the ones that are can get away with it. I’ve encountered some outstanding employees in my local Post Office. But in general, the treatment I’ve experienced at the hands of government employees has been much less courteous and responsive than that of private sector employees.

          • Fed Up Gal in NM

            Dave,

            You are absolutely correct! Those who work for the government came from somewhere, i.e., the same communities we live and work in; so in my mind, government employees are a collection of people just like (ALL) of us. The problem with BIG GOVERNMENT is…it’s like a huge fraternity, where some will take advantage because they can…and there lies the problem. While some will call in sick the minute they have an extra sick day saved up (regardless if for illness or not), still yet others are simply not held accountable for being rude or for not doing their jobs. Many do forget, that without their customers there would be no need for their job; for the most part Private Sector figured this out long ago. They realize their bread and butter might just be the customers’ satisfaction with their product and/or service. So….I think you and I are pretty much on the same page here.

          • eyeswideopen

            In an earlier post you stated, “mostly I’ve been treated contemptuously by government workers”. Maybe it is how you approach people and the distain that you show here for government workers, I’m sure they can sense your contempt for them. Dave, when you are nice to people, they usually are nice back, try it for a while and you will be surprised.

    • libertytrain

      Fed Up Gal – Absolutely adored your comment – and I particularly enjoyed the “artsy-fartsy” descriptions – I’ve been an active/working artist for over 20 years and am so tired of the artsy-fartsy crud – among other things – again, nice post -

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Thank you, Liberty. What a gracious reply! In hindsight, I do apologize if I offended you (as an artist) with my “artsy/fartsy types” comment.

        I was really just trying to make a point about how some things are presented to us as necessary as breathing air and drinking water. Using my own state (NM) as an example, there are water restrictions in place when we are told the water aquifer is low. Similarly, when our personal budget aquifers run low…….we should cut back our spending on things we might enjoy, but find a bit frivolous in the moment. This is a virtue that BIG GOVERNMENT does not possess, because in this country it seems now that most everyone is entitled to most everything, regardless of their individual contributions….or lack thereof.

        I hope I’ve clarified what I meant and have redeemed myself in your (artist) eyes…..all kidding aside; I really appreciated your response! Thanks Liberty.

        Fed Up Gal

        • libertytrain

          Fed Up Gal – no need to clarify – I thought your post was just fine and am enjoying your posts as well as several of the other “newer” people – and most posts are now being done in a nicely civil manner – it’s great.

  • American Citizen

    The banks right now are penny pinchers. They give next to nothing in interest. They are loath to lend money to thriving small businesses. We have a son-ln-law who is a chiropractor and who works for another. Their business is booming. He is trying to buy the practice and is having a hard time getting the money he needs. He already owns the building, he’s just trying to buy the practice. We have another son-in-law who worked for a small plumbing contractor. The boss died suddenly, so he and his co-workers tried to buy the business. No dice, the banks wouldn’t loan the money, so the family closed the business. More lost jobs.

    • DaveH

      Maybe Citizen, the loan would have been available if they joined ACORN.

  • American Citizen

    Have you noticed how Obama uses every excuse he can to avoid staying in the White House? He runs all over the world as well as this country to avoid having to make the hard decisions. Talk about carbon footprints, he and Michelle are racking them up.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      It doesnt count if the left does it. They are beyond reproach. Global warming lord Al Gore burns more fuel in a week than I do in a year, and he wants me to realize I need to go green. Gimme a break. Hypocrites.

  • DaveH

    The Department of Energy was instituted on 8-04-1977 to Lesson our Dependence on Foreign Oil.
    Now it’s 2009 – 32 years later – and the Budget for this ‘Necessary’ Department is at $24.2 Billion a year.
    They have 16,000 Federal employees and approximately 100,000 Contract employees.
    Look at the job they have done! Ah, yes, the good old bureaucracy.
    Now we are going to turn over the banking system, health care, and the auto industry to that beacon of efficiency?

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Maybe they will run it as efficiently as they have the social security system. Oh wait, sorry, bad example. How about the school system. Oh wait, not that one either. Medicare? Medicaid? Local and state budgets? Shoot, help me, I cant find anything financially they have managed well.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Bebe,

        Nicely said! So sad…..and unfortunately, so very true.

        Fed Up Gal in NM

  • Tim

    I’ve enjoyed reading the comments on this site. However, it saddens me that someone dosen’t surface to lead us back to sanity in this country. I am a Republican mainly because I am conservative and that’s what Republicans are supposed to be. The history shows big government begats big government no matter who is in the power seat. I got a big lesson in politics when I attended a state convention as a deligate and was supprized to discover there were conservatives and liberals arguing over the party platform issues. I fear that President Obamma and the liberal congress will just keep thumbing their noses at us and doing what ever feathers their own nest as long as we only gripe and do nothing. In order for there to be great change in the direction of sanity in this country, someone with credentials and integrity will have to unite all of us gripers into one large following and take back our country. No matter what the cost to us individuals.I am not a wealthy person but I would be willing to give all I have and my life if needed to present my kids and grand kids an America like the one I grew up in. An America that saw the local milk man,Teachers, Dads and other “insignificant” people become “heros”, real examples of how to be a good citizen and neighbor. I don’t have a clue as to who a good leader would be but, I’ve often thought that if such a person come forward, they could not get elected. Maybe that’s fatalist thinking and a good reason for not “throwing away my vote on a 3rd or 4th party candidate”. I am ready and I truly believe many in this country are ready to fight to save this country from the hands of Big government Cronies).

    • Fed Up Gal in NM

      Good Morning Tim,

      I’m confused. Maybe I missed the boat here, but it seems to me that many (if not most) commenting on this site, DO realize the direction our country is going and has been for quite some time. I also believe many in this country recognize the thumbing nose gesture you referenced. Like you and me, they may lack the financial resources to make a big enough impact…..or they may simply not know where to start or how to proceed. Many (like me) are also busy working for a living; busy taking care of their families or their homes and livelihoods, or all of the above.

      I agree with your assessment about Republicans being conservative, as I consider myself both. I will acknowledge however, that over time change does occur and it happens whether WE like it or not. I think it may have more to do with the degree to which WE do or do not like the change we experience and what WE as citizens CHOOSE to do about it. Of course, our action or should I say reaction to certain changes is still change in itself (depending on how one looks at it).
      I think you’re right about “someone with credentials and integrity” stepping up to the plate to unite (US) citizens ; the problem seems to be that most people no longer TRUST a politician will have integrity or a remotely decent set of values they adhere too. That may be true; I would like to believe however, that there is someone out there with those character traits and values. Your point about being willing to give more of oneself is spot on! I also think WE as individual citizens need to look at our own character traits and values. No matter the party affiliation, we ALL have work to do on improving our own character and our own value system; maybe then seemingly ordinary Americans will (again) be our country’s heroes, as you referenced. Personally, my heroes are: 1.) My mom, Anne 2.) My aunt, Hettie 3.) U.S. Military, and 4.) Police and Fire personnel. Every day is a work in progress for finding more….and what a job it is!

      • DaveH

        Fed Up,
        We have gotten to this point by allowing the government to micromanage almost every aspect of our lives. For 30 years I’ve been preaching to friends and relatives that government is getting too intrusive. They were too complacent or they were too fearful of government to acknowledge the growth. They thought I was a nut worrying about our country heading to Socialism. Now many of them (the ones I still know) sound more like me than I do. They have finally awakened. But is it too late? Have we gotten to the point where too many people are eating at the government trough? Are we going to be able to muster enough votes now, even if all the private sector people come alive? I am hopeful.
        The reason there is so much concern about “someone with credentials and integrity” is directly a result of allowing them to control so much of our lives. If we were responsible for ourselves our elected representatives wouldn’t need to be super-human. And since nobody amongst us is really super-human, we end up electing Liars. Because nobody else can measure up to voter expectations.
        The only way we are going to get back to where we started is to start electing flawed but honest politicians who promise to head in the direction of reversing the size of this Leviathan. We must stop voting for the pretty face, or the smooth talker who speaks of compromise and bi-partisanship. With compromise and bi-partisanship the government just keeps growing. We need people who are going to stand against the Big Machine and work to shrink the size of Big Government. That is the only chance we have.

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          Dave,

          I absolutely agree with your point about government’s micro-management, into almost every aspect of our lives. I hope it is not too late and that people will start “seeing” things for the way they are…and not for the way we want them to be…if WE continue to bury our heads in the sand.

          You’re also right about no one being “super-human”, so it is quite reasonable to assume that WE being a collection of individuals will surely as we speak…elect unscrupulous types to lead us (liars, thieves, etc)…as history has already shown us. I think one of your previous comments, “There will never be Utopia. All we can do is try our best to deal with human nature”, pretty much nails it!

          Since all we can do is our best, I guess we will have to at some point…get real…and understand that human beings are as you said…”flawed” and try to get (or stay) involved in the process…to ensure those running for public office and those elected will understand they will not be expected to be super human, but rather responsible to the citizens of this country for the decisions they make…and maybe more importantly…for how they will try to correct flawed policy(whether it is a result of his or her policy agenda or that of others’).

          My concern is, our society will surely be continuing in a constant state of push and pull, tug of war type strategies…until it gets it as right as possible….The only future I believe we can come close to foretelling is the one God offers us, so guess I’m in it for the long (or short) haul…since his future is the only one that I will trust without doubt! Regarding the size of this Leviathan…I’m also reminded of David’s victory over Goliath, and place my faith squarely there.

          Thank you, Dave for your comments. It’s clear that you have given this much thought.

      • ccg

        Fed up, I agree with your assessment but we forget one important aspect, and that is do we teach our children and grandchildren about our great American values? We cannot assume that the schools will teach this. This is our responsibility to teach our families so they will know the value of getting out and voting for the right person. They need to know how to look for the right person. We cannot let a generation gap happen here and yet want to give these kids a chance, because they won’t know what that means.They won’t know how to even use that chance. We must be active in teaching our families.

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          CCG,

          Now you’ve done it! (Just kidding, CCG). Although I have very strong feelings about how children in this country are being taught (or in some cases just baby sat), I’ve tried to stay off my soap box on this topic; since I don’t have children and many who do have children, feel people like me don’t really have “skin” in the game, so to speak. Of course, that tends to make my blood boil….especially when they don’t mind using the tax money single and/or married folks w/o children also pay toward schools. I’m sure someone reading this post will say like someone in an earlier post…something to the effect that we don’t pay federal taxes to the schools. Hmmmmmmm……Really???????? Any public school that receives money from the Federal Government absolutely receives some portion of tax payer dollars…and last I heard…people w/o children are not exempt from paying Federal or State taxes.

          Sorry for getting off track there; just needed to vent a bit. Now back to your main point, about being “active in teaching our families”. I could not agree more. My Dad was a public school teacher and coach for approximately 30 years, and I can tell you with conviction, that schools should be there to supplement a child’s education, not to be the ONLY educational system surrounding a child. In my opinion, many parents have relinquished their right and responsibility of educating their children…at all of our financial and emotional expense! Until children are taught positive values at home (from their parents and not taught from the internet, or taught by the TV) and until they are able to experience negative consequences to the behaviors, I’m personally at a loss for a viable solution. I do however think it’s worth the effort to come up with one!

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            The school problem is lack of discipline, at school and at home. Back in the day, if I did something bad in school, like say when I climbed up on the roof of my elementary school, when I came down, I was taken into the pricipals office and given a swat. When I got home, of course they had called there, I got my butt whupped by my dad for being bad at school. It taught me not to do this stuff. Had they not done this, shoot, Id been up there sticking my tongue out at them if I knew they couldnt do anything about it. That is where we are today. The kids know the teachers cant do anything, and they even intimidate the teachers at the higher grades. You dont call home to the parents, because they dont care. The kids always right, and youve got no business correcting him. Its a huge mess. There are huge racial preferences made, where the school teachers are told not to say anything to a certain race of people lest they “get taken down town” with the complaint then the school has to pay money to defend themselves in a racial lawsuit. Yes, this still happens all the time, and teachers are scared to death of it, as they are not allowed to control their classrooms. Its a government mess, again.

    • DaveH

      Tim,
      I believe you throw away your vote when you vote for the lesser of two evils. As that will only get you evil. You need to study the party platforms and find the one with the principles closest to your own and support them every way you can. That is the only way the people of your choice are going to get the numbers that are necessary for widespread recognition. And then prepare for the onslaught of ridicule and misinformation that follows any third party.
      It isn’t going to be just one man that leads us out of this wilderness. We need to scrutinize all of our representatives and select the ones even at the local level who will start heading our country back in the right direction. For instance, I Emailed all my City-Council candidates and asked them the simple question “Do you think we should have more government or less government?”. All but one answered “Less!”. Coincidentally that one had moved here from Chicago.

      Check out the Libertarian Party platform:
      http://libertarianparty.org/platform

  • B. Lawton

    I am 83 years old @ LIVE ON ss +my husband,s retirment.I do not know if I will even have that at the rate our country is going.
    Any suggestion?

    Thank You
    P.S.My late husband spent 33 yrs. as a Naval polit.He paied into a fund to make sure I had health care for Life.????

    • Fed Up Gal in NM

      Hi B,

      While a lot of us are going to great lengths to get our points across, you have been able to get yours’ across in less than five sentences. I’m touched by your comment, in many ways.

      Maybe because of my previous military service, I find it appalling that a retired military widow(er) has to worry (at age 83) about providing for him or herself. It simply frustrates me to no end, when I see people who are young enough to go to work but won’t because he or she feels the particular work offered them at the time, is beneath them; then to hear stories such as yours’ really does work my last nerve!

      Since I can’t think of a suggestion that would help long-term, I would like to suggest that you contact a Naval base’s Family Support Center. My service was not in the Navy, but in the Air Force and ANG. I don’t have any idea what type of monetary fund your husband would have contributed into, to ensure you had health care for life. Are you by chance referencing “Tri-Care for Life”? I do know he paid through his sacrifice for this country for 33 years.

      When I housed a retired Marine (approx age 79) and his wife after Katrina, our base Family Support Center helped him get in touch with his Navy Family Support Center folks . Now, I don’t know how the Navy’s Family Support Centers operate exactly, but I think it could not hurt to contact one of the Navy installations to see if and how they might be able to help, should you have a need in the future.

      I’m sorry that I don’t have a better response to your question. Maybe in time, others who read your post may be able to offer something more useful to your situation.

      Fed Up Gal in NM

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    Liberty,

    Not sure what you’re referencing. At any rate, thank you….I think…LoL.

    Fed Up Gal

    • libertytrain

      Fed Up – I probably wasn’t very clear – I do enjoy what you write -

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Ditto….Thank you, Liberty.

        Fed Up Gal

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    Liberty,

    You are so right. Washington is sooooooo out of touch with reality. Even though I’ve worked as a government employee (military and civilian), if I’m honest…..I must admit, the government generally creates a quagmire in much of what it does (at least from this taxpayer’s point of view). Having said this, here’s some things that may be worth putting out there.

    I realize some people will not be able to differentiate between non-DOD government workers and those working for DoD to support the military that have or will be asked to sacrifice their time (and more), to ensure the rest of us CAN speak our minds on blogs such as this. This may simply just be a given.

    I’m trying to look at both sides (government workers and taxpayers), as I fall in both categories. Since I also pay taxes (and a portion of my health care insurance….nope it’s not free for feds like some think), I have similar concerns that non-governmental employees have. That’s not to say that federal employees are any worse (or better) than private sector employees; they are not. Overall the employees are like most people who just want to earn a decent wage to support themselves and/or their families. There are exceptions (like every other business), but overall…most want to give a good days work for a good day’s pay. It’s important to at least note, that many federal DOD positions have been cut (through Reduction in Force, and/or through attrition), so it’s not true that all government sector jobs are staffed to the max, as some may believe. Some are lucky enough to work in a capacity that allows them to assist our military. I’m biased I guess; I believe our military deserve to have someone working to assist them (and their families), especially when they are away from their families due to sometimes long and arduous deployments.

    Okay….now that I’ve put those cards on the table……………………….let me say this regarding your comments: Senator Proxmire seems to have been very unique; based on your description, it seems he never forgot where he was, how he got there and who put him there. This is unlike MOST in the Washington political arena, who apparently believe they are entitled to their House/Senate seat…..entitled simply because, and entitled to the seat FOR LIFE! I too am fed up with this mentality.

    In this day and age, I believe Congressional and Senate terms should be limited to two terms (period)….not consecutive either….TWO TERMS…and move out! There is absolutely way too much motivation for corruption and at best…complacency. Now specifically regarding your frustration with the “Do as I say, Not as I do” attitude; you could not be more right! For example, Congress votes its’ OWN pay raises, while deciding what (if any) pay raise military and federal civilian employees receive. I would have much more respect for them as a whole, if when they decide to approve NO or a PAULTRY pay raise for the military / federal civilians…..they would vote their own raise the SAME! Who could argue with that? Oh yeah, right……….someone will I’m sure.

    In summary….I am a government worker…………but that does not mean I don’t have the ability to recognize stupid governmental blunders. What frustrates me and many others in the system, is that the workers really are sometimes caught between a rock and a hard place…..meaning you know that you’re helping those who deserve help, but many times there’s a quicker and more efficient way to help them………but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO…..the government says ….”if it ain’t broke….don’t fix it”…..I say…..What D/A does not realize it IS broke? Yes, there does need to be reform….but not the CIANIDE reform some are advocating. What I’m trying to say is, let’s not stick our heads in the sand and just HOPE someone with a CHANGE mantra will make sure they will take care of us. Hmmmmmmm……. CHANGING healthcare to work like Social Security (BAD IDEA)…..CHANGING healthcare to work like the Postal Service (another BAD IDEA)….CHANGING healthcare to work like Medicare/Medicaid (yep…you guessed it….BAD,BAD IDEA)…….like Fannie Mae/Freddie MAC (okay…do I have to repeat myself????)….I could go on and on, but I don’t want to kill another tree to make the same point.

    I will however, make this point: I’m a conservative white southerner, but one of my best friends is black, lives near the DC area, and is considerably more liberal than I. I don’t understand how it is, the two of us being as different as we are……are still able to communicate our viewpoints, can work together, visit each other homes, etc….and we are able to respect each other’s opinion and move forward without all the finger pointing and without the “do it my way attitude” you described. I don’t understand why the Washington crew can’t do the same!

  • Fed Up Gal

    Thanks EYES….I can’t speak for Dave H…..but personally, I’ll just take your comment “you are truly something” as a compliment…because I know you are now trying to communicate in a more respectful manner.

    On the off-chance I misunderstood your intention…here’s my thought: No, guess we didn’t know they relocated to DC from Washington (you think????)…….hmmmm….funny how that happens with the constant mainstream media barrage?

    I’m sorry…..maybe I wasn’t clear enough about what my thoughts are….let me try again. I think I said “Not a big deal on the surface, except he ran on the CHANGE platform. Personally, I think it’s rather sad that as a president who relishes his own idea of change, he is apparently quick to draw the line when it comes to CHANGING his own kids’ school”. I think I also said “Doubt you’ll want to hear it, but Dave H posted an interesting video that explains why DC area families with kids who were going to school on vouchers feel the guy they elected has let them down. It almost seems like they feel they’ve been duped in a bait and switch tactic”.

    Soooooo, it seems (to me at least) that you’re having trouble recognizing or possibly just acknowledging that many of those who supported the President during the election, now seem to have some (if not most) of the concerns many have been expressing about his CHANGE stump.

    It also seems strange to me that while the current administration is professing that those who cannot afford health care insurance (for ANY reason) should receive health care benefits that are paid either partially or fully…by taxpayers, etc., while simultaneously REVOKING a school voucher program…that may not be perfect, but at least provides those in that program a fighting chance at receiving a decent education ….thereby likely providing a decent chance of better employment opportunities…. thereby providing them a way to pay at least a portion of their health insurance coverage. See how it works?

    In summary, the President picked his own battle ground and then subsequently decided to surrender some of his own campaign troops for what appears to be strictly political gains.

    I wish I could say, I’m more convinced the desire for these slam-dunk CHANGE(S)…are for purely altruistic reasons. Sadly, however…..I am not convinced!

    Since it appears you may not have had a chance (yet) to review the video clip Dave H posted (and I referenced) previously, I’ve included the link here. Now, you don’t have to search for his posting to view the video. I hope I’ve cleared up any confusion you may have had.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7FS5B-CynM

    • libertytrain

      Fed Up – enjoyable read – your thoughts covered some good points.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Thanks Liberty,

        I’ve not been able to log on and read/reply to the posts as often as I would like….much to my dismay….and (I’m sure)…much to other’s delight….LoL. I am however, still trying to keep up as best I can. Thanks again…for your supportive comments.

        Fed Up Gal

  • concernedpatriot

    Re the Dem, Rep, Libert. debate I see nothing mentioned about running for Precinct Delegate. This is a way to change the party from within by getting pro Constitution, pro conservative etc. in the majority of local party who will elect party leaders at the county who elect party leaders at state level who elect national party leadership. It is the ‘old guard’ that has a firm grip of the party that keeps fresh faces from gaining ground and leaves people like RINO John McCain, Linsay Graham, Olympia Snowe, etc. running the party. This happens on the Democrat side as well. The Dems have been hijacked by the likes of Pelosi, Reid, Obama, etc. with their socialist agenda. I agree with
    Berberoni that voting Libertarian will take from Repub votes and help the Dems which is why we need freedom loving conservatives that have read and understand our Constitution to run as Precinct Delegates. Libert. could join and help to turn around the Repubs. Please check out this strategy, it makes sense.

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