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The Tax Man

January 16, 2013 by  

The Tax Man
PHOTOS.COM

Now that President Barack Obama has broken his promise about not raising taxes on the middle class, it’s “Katy, bar the door” time.

The Obama Administration is once again considering switching from a per-gallon gasoline tax to a pay-per-mile plan in order to increase the amount of money going into the Federal Highway Trust Fund. According to a Government Accountability Office study, the trust fund needs a tax increase to keep from going broke.

The trust fund is drying up because of the move to more fuel-efficient cars. Better gas mileage means fewer trips to the pump, hence the drop in trust fund revenues.

To maintain spending at current levels would require a doubling of the gas tax to 32 cents per gallon, according to the GAO. Should the Federal government add spending needed to fix crumbling infrastructure and build new roads, that tax would have to increase to 45 cents per gallon.

The GAO says the average driver pays about $96 per year in Federal gas taxes. To raise the $78 billion needed to fix and maintain roads, that would need to rise to $248. Translated into a pay-per-mile plan, the average driver would see an increase in the tax from .9 of a cent per mile he currently pays to 2.2 cents per mile.

A pay-per-mile plan was floated during Obama’s first term. It was scrapped after it was met with public outrage.

Between the fiscal cliff deal and a number of Obamacare taxes taking effect in 2013, Americans have already been hit with $264 billion in new taxes since New Year’s Day. It’s one of the largest one-year tax increases in American history.

Of course, Obama believes there is no spending problem. He’s right. Recent legislation proves neither Obama nor Congress has a problem spending money. Cutting, though, is a different story. And passing a budget is out of the question.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • independent thinker

    In theory the per mile tax is a good idea if applied to all vehicles on the highway according to how much wear and tear they do to the roads. The problem is the technology to determine how many miles you travel in which states or counties can be used to track your every move. It is not the business of the government or anyone else where I go. They have NO need to know if I go to Wally World, Kmart, the local sporting goods store, one of the local lakes, Kroger, or a localy owned grocery store.

    • Vicki

      Tax per gallon is the same as tax per mile. It doesn’t account for the government demanded efficiencies. So to fix the problem THEY created they have come up with the tax per mile. There are 2 ways to do that.

      1. Demand that the odometer be read every year when the car registration is paid.

      2. Demand GPS trackers in each car.

      Now which looks the most interesting to the tyrant?

      • Warrior

        And here is where the crony “public/private” partnerships come in. More toll roads, a LOT MORE.

      • Flashy

        Vicki…a few days ago i believe TML raised this issue. As i stated then, our state is looking at the issue at the state level. The options are what you note, and the third raising the gas tax the state charges.

        From what the media is saying, the GPS is out the window. That has a very low level of public support. myself? I’m for raising the gas tax. if you add in any fed tax with the state tax, it gets near a dime a gallon. With gas at $3.30 right now (regular), a dime ain’t gonna break me.

        I’m leery of a registration mileage surcharge. Those who are barely making it will feel pain if there is one lump sum of $250 (as a talking point amount) added to registration.

        We should be viewing this as a pleasant dilemma. We’re weaning ourselves off of imported oil, the cars are lighter and do less damage to the roads, and we’re cutting into air pollutant levels (have you seen the latest on China’s air pollution? )

      • Vigilant

        Manual odometer readings won’t be necessary. Event data recorders (EDR) are already being installed in many new vehicles, and NTSA wants them in every new vehicle.

        GM’s OnStar RemoteLink records all sorts of data about your car. Progressive Insurance provides a plug in device for new insurees that tracks mileage, speed, trips per day and hard braking info. The data is reported electronically and can be viewed on the internet.

        Government knows that these black boxes will be able to track you anywhere, and with GPS data, your whereabouts will be a matter of knowledge to Big Brother at all times.

      • Vigilant

        “I’m for raising the gas tax. if you add in any fed tax with the state tax, it gets near a dime a gallon. With gas at $3.30 right now (regular), a dime ain’t gonna break me.”

        Sorry Flashy, you’re completely wrong.

        “The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon (cpg) and 24.4 cents per gallon (cpg) for diesel fuel. On average, as of April 2012, state and local taxes add 31.1 cents to gasoline and 30.2 cents to diesel for a total US average fuel tax of 49.5 cents (cpg) per gallon for gas and 54.6 cents per gallon (cpg) for diesel.” (http://www.gaspricewatch.com/web_gas_taxes.php)

        You need to check that link for a state-by-state list. “Dime a gallon?” I hardly think so.

      • Flashy

        Vig…didn’t they start having the black box in the 2005 cars? i know it goes against the false image folks think of me as…but I have an older jeep along with my main vehicle so i have means of avoiding the tracking issues. i haven’t used it for that purpose…i love my jeep, but i do own the older model with that being one of the reasons.

      • Flashy

        “Vigilant says:”

        Vig…reading hat i wrote, it is unclear that i was speaking of the potential increases in the gas tax. not the overall gas tax amount.

        My apologies for not being clear on that …

      • jon a.

        VICKI
        you may have seen the movie fahrenheit 451. look for the movie [ THE LAST CHASE]
        the movie is about where the goverment has total control, you work where they want you
        to.
        JON A. [USMC RET.]

      • Vigilant

        To be frank, it’s amusing to watch the liberals argue against their own philosophy without even realizing it.

        Regressive taxation has always been a thorn in the side of the left, or so they tell us. Progressive taxation is the only “fair” way to go, they say, and soaking the rich is one way to do it.

        However, they show their true colors when they stand behind a scheme to increase taxes that will hit the poor disproportionately, i.e., increase an already regressive tax. A 32 – 45 cent F.E.T. will mean that EVERYONE, including the working poor, will pay an average of between 63 – 76 cents per gallon on top of the base price of gasoline.

        Where is the high dudgeon of the liberals across the land decrying this regressive tax? Unheard, of course. It proves, by their own hypocrisy, that they don’t give a damn about the poor. Tax and spend, tax and spend, regardless of who it hurts, and make even more people dependent upon government for their daily bread.

      • steve

        this is all about them controling you. and you thought your vote really counted. stop giving them a pass on their moronic thinking. get off you butt and fight for your right to party.

      • Bill

        All comments are missing the mark, if the numbers in the article are the ones used by the Feds then someone is pulling the wool over our eyes. If you do the math with the stats provided the average driver drives approximately 4500 miles annually. multiply this by 4 and you have a realistic number of average miles per person per year. Thus the money collected is also multiplied by 4, so who is kidding who here?

      • Chester

        Vigilant, which is going to be easier for the poor man to pay, an extra twenty or thirty cents a gallon at the pump, or an extra two to five hundred dollars at the collector’s window when he goes in to renew his registration? Bad thing where I live is the absolute fact that more than likely, it wouldn’t be every year, but every other year, meaning an additional four hundred to a thousand dollars when I go to renew my tags. Seeing as how I only make about a grand a month, that would wipe out a whole month’s income just to pay the mileage tax, then I would have to pay the regular license fee on top of that, upwards of another hundred dollars at this time.

      • Flashy

        “However, they show their true colors when they stand behind a scheme to increase taxes that will hit the poor disproportionately, i.e., increase an already regressive tax. A 32 – 45 cent F.E.T. will mean that EVERYONE, including the working poor, will pay an average of between 63 – 76 cents per gallon on top of the base price of gasoline.

        Where is the high dudgeon of the liberals across the land decrying this regressive tax? Unheard, of course. It proves, by their own hypocrisy, that they don’t give a damn about the poor. Tax and spend, tax and spend, regardless of who it hurts, and make even more people dependent upon government for their daily bread.” <— Vig

        interesting thoughts Vig. Serious. I thought about your observation for at first it did indeed strike me as you described/wrote it. But it does make sense if you look at what i see as a role government should have. One which you and i disagree on.

        See..i view one role of government to encourage and push certain areas of activity and action which benefits society and smooths out the high and low of private enterprise. It is a traditional role our government has taken.

        Take the automobile. The auto is private enterprise. the roads, the fueling pipelines, the basic overall infrastructure was built maintained and expanded by government. Can anyone argue the raid expansion in the 20's and 30's of modern roads an pipelines to rural aras is not a benefit? Same with Air. Government stepped in with airports and the infrastructure there. Can anyone argue left to itself, private air service would have been as fast and smooth in growing from infancy? Or the internet. ? or the existence of cable in every town in this nation? (google has a processing center in a small distant rural town here. It brought jobs and increased the skills of the local labor force. The electrical grid and the internet cable infrastructure allow it to be there, and Google makes out like a bandit with a huge structure without any neighbors complaining, sucks up at cheap cos the electricity from a nearby dam and windfarm, and is a happy camper with little to no local resistance).

        So yeah…allowing the owners of electric and hybrids is a good for society and should be encouraged. It will affect the poor proportionately, but overall I would argue the poor don't travel and use gas as much as the more affluent. And…sooner or later, the hybrids which are new today will be used tomorrow..and the entire fleet of this country will adapt over to the benefit of everyone, including the poor, as we wean off of foreign oil etc……as pushed by the government policies.

        On the face, it appears to be a clash. But if one sees a role in government as i do, it doesn't clash. But…i accept that you have a different role of government viewpoint. It would be a dull world indeed if everyone was right all the time as I am

      • Walter & Renee Agard

        When a person is in terrible problems they do drastic things.

      • Rock Savage

        Flashy

        I have news for you — the gasoline taxes are a lot higher than 10 cents per gallon.

        The United States federal excise tax on gasoline is 18.4 cents per gallon and 24.4 cents per gallon for diesel fuel. As of April 2012, the average state and local taxes add 31.1 cents to gasoline and 30.2 cents to diesel for a total US average fuel tax of 49.5 cents per gallon for gas and 54.6 cents per gallon for diesel.

        That’s a lot more than 10 cents per gallon — and you want to pay more for the current gas tax averaging 50 cents per gallon in America?

        And, if you add all the other taxes – federal, state, city, county, school districts, etc. (including hidden taxes that we pay) the average tax rate for the Americans taxpayer is now at an annual rate of 54%. This means the average taxpayer works more than half of the year to just pay all their taxes. And, we can expect huge tax increases in 2013 and 2014 at both federal and state levels which will drastically increase the annual average 54% tax rate.

        When will this “just tax the people” mentality end? When it’s at 100%?

        Don’t you think it’s time to draw a line in the sand and say NO to tax increases and new taxes and YES to cut the spending!!!

        My personal opinion is that anyone who believes the continued answer to our nation’s mounting problems are more taxes and more spending is: (1) insane, (2) unable to think for themselves, or (3) motivated by an agenda to ruin America!

      • Flashy

        “I have news for you — the gasoline taxes are a lot higher than 10 cents per gallon.” <— Rock

        As I clarified with Vig…i was speaking of what the ADDED tax increase would be, not the overall current. my apologies..

        As for your comment on taxes….This admin has flat lined federal spending, and what tax increases that have been were passed in Congress..i.e.includes the House. Taxes were wayyyy too low for the expenses rung up by the GOP during the 00's. How do you propose to pay for that? If you say…"reduce spending" … OK, specifically what would you cut? Programs now…and the effect of cutting them (not only savings, but what they would eliminate in programs)….

        Go ahead…easy to yell from the stands. Show us your stuff…

      • Rock Savage

        Flashy,

        You said: This admin has flat lined federal spending, and what tax increases that have been were passed in Congress..i.e. includes the House. Taxes were wayyyy too low for the expenses rung up by the GOP during the 00′s. How do you propose to pay for that? If you say…”reduce spending” … OK, specifically what would you cut? Programs now…and the effect of cutting them (not only savings, but what they would eliminate in programs)”

        I say: What are you talking about – you use subjective words with general meaning (non-specific) in your comments like: “flat-lined federal spending” and “taxes wayyy too low for the expenses rung up”…. Good grief — let’s talk about no balanced budget (which is the responsibility of the Prez) and the deficit spending of the federal government that’s increasing our national debt at an alarming and unsustainable level and will ultimately destroy our economy and the dollar.

        You said “Go ahead…easy to yell from the stands. Show us your stuff…”

        I say: You, too are in the stands and showing us your stuff; so, why can’t I contribute to this blog?

        As far as cutting spending — that’s not hard to do; rather, it’s something that this Administration and Congress don’t want to do! What they want to do and are doing is kicking the can down the road by not fixing problems but pushing them into the future and hoping when that future arrives, they are retired and living the good life while the rest of us (the mutts) pay the price. Wake you, man!

      • http://personalliberty.com Sheldon

        Tires wear out roads not gas. I would expect the purchase of tires to include a road tax. Then the bigger the tire the greater the tax. Trucks do more damage but studded tires cause more wear on the roads. So in one sense this would be a tax per mile without tracking anyone.

      • Bob

        Who are they kidding it’s all about tracking our every move another treasonous act against our freedoms.

      • http://maddad1966@att.net Peter Wieckhorst

        Option 3 ALL THE ABOVE. The government loves all the info it can get on you.

      • tony newbill

        How will Flashy pay for this ?? How will most of the Middle Class pay for this Obamacare ??? go to page 56 and page 70 of this IRS Report and look at what Healthcare coverage will cost a family of 4 and 5….. how will the consumer driven economy react to this ?

        http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/REG-148500-12%20FR.pdf

        • Brad in TX

          so if I’m reading this right a family of 4 with a gross icome of 98000, will cost roughly 20k per year and they will use the IRAS to track and collect; is there now going to be a debtors prison? Because they wont be avble to collect 60% of the collection at any given time other than hye first time they swoop through and steal your cahsh or property. Congratualtions you people votingt in Civil War.

      • Bob

        Raising the gas tax seems like the most fair and protect our right to privacy.

        • Brad in TX

          Vote No America, make them find that shovel ready TARP money they lost

    • shell

      Beware of Greeks bearing gifts, IT says, “In theory the per mile tax is a good idea if applied to all vehicles on the highway according to HOW MUCH WEAR AND TEAR THEY DO TO THE ROADS.” (Emphasis mine) In other words, truckers and SUV owners I mean you must pay for the roads, while me and my Prius get by.

      • independant thinker

        No shell you and your Prius do not “get by”. You still cause wear and tear to the highways you just do less than the a SUV so would pay a lower rate but you would still have to pay.

    • Doc Sarvis

      They could easily track how far you go without tracking where you go; it’s called the odometer.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        That would last about two days then the various states would be calling for a means of getting their share of the money to cover out of state vehicles traveling on their roads. The only practical way to do that would be GPS or similar means of determining where your vehicle travelled.

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      Just another way to control the people and is a marxist idea for sure and they will spend billions to collect more of our money, it is the Karl Marx way and the left worships at his altar and praises his 10 ways to communism, sad it is also satanic and they worship him also.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest David

      There is a simple way to cut the expense of road wear, just make them out of concrete, put down an extra 4 to 6 inches to make way for wear. Then maybe once a year or two as the road begins to wear, all you have to do is drive a “Roadtech” road leveler over it and “cut” the road by about 1/2 inch to make it level again, at this rate you would not need to replace the road surface for about 30 or more years. Texas has been doing this for many years, unlike the rest of the country.

    • Bob

      I thought TARP and those shovel ready projects covered road construction? Have you noticed Granite construction is doing almost all the roadwork in the US they must have figured out who to pay!

    • Randy Watson

      All This has been done in the trucking industry for years and the problem with it all, is the money collected from it doesn’t go to the highway use fund it goes into a general fund and has for years. If it did go to the highway use fund, just from us truckers alone, our highways would be immaculate. Now where do you think all those $$$’s have gone, yup you guessed it, they went into some fund to save the spotted owl or some three toed lizard, but not where it should have gone on building better roads.

    • http://pweiters9.wordpress.com pweiters9

      2/2/13, Forget your car as far as privacy goes; everything you do is recorded in some way or other. Your driver license, credit cards, passports, company IDs, supermarket tabs, all have chips & magnetic bar codes & strips tabulating what we do. The gas tax is just more money down the proverbial Black Hole. It’ not so much that this is a bad thing as it’s potential for abuse, not only by gov’t, but also by private concerns.

    • jimster

      So if I do a lot of off road driving will I get a refund for those miles or will they just keep the money? I would bet on the latter.

  • Mike in MI

    Interesting, if the Government doesn’t pass budgets they have an easier time doing anything they want with the money – no accountability – where’d it come from, where’d it go..
    How did Obama’s mentors and forebears (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Marx and Lenin) run their budgets from year to year? Or, did they just balance the budget by mass killings to settle demand versus usage?
    It’s fairly obvious that at some point as the growth in the welfare rolls continues to go up they’ll have to reduce the numbers of people entering the system. If I know this Admin. at that time they’ll start reducing numbers of producers. Somebody the other day said Obum is a homo.
    If that’s true he’s probably got a “reprobate mind” (Romans 1:28). That’s what kind of answer a reprobate mind conjures up to settle that problem.

    • Dorian Douglas

      Don’t forget (or ask critical care doctors about this if you don’t know) that HHS is requiring critical care doctors to convene panels OF THEIR PEERS to determine how much care should be given to those of us over 70. If they can’t convene a panel, further care (and likely most care) will not be approved by HHS under ObamaCare. This eliminates the number of elderly who need expensive care, which cuts medical costs, and social Security payments.

      Imagination at its most evil.

      • Flashy

        Pure hokum. A fable.

      • Chester

        Thanks Flashy! I have checked, rechecked, and double checked this STORY, and all it is or ever has been is a STORY. No such panel was ever planned for Obamacare, but has been cussed and discussed innumerable times by people such as Mr. Douglas.

      • Vigilant

        Flashy and Chester, you might want to see what a top Democrat strategist and donor who served as President Obama’s lead auto-industry adviser recently conceded: that the rationing of heath services under Obamacare is “inevitable.”

        Steven Rattner advocated that such rationing should target elderly patients, while stating, “We need death panels.”

        The complete NY Times article is at http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.html?_r=1

        The gist is that there’s absolutely NO WAY to sustain Obamacare without rationing of services, and the elderly will be hit hardest.

        He says, “Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, but unless we start allocating health care resources more prudently — rationing, by its proper name — the exploding cost of Medicare will swamp the federal budget.

        “But in the pantheon of toxic issues — the famous “third rails” of American politics — none stands taller than overtly acknowledging that elderly Americans are not entitled to every conceivable medical procedure or pharmaceutical.”

        Rattner, according to Aaron Klein, “serves on the board the New America Foundation, or NAF, a George Soros-funded think tank that was instrumental in supporting Obamacare in 2010. Soros’ son, financier Jonathan Soros, is also a member of the foundation’s board.”

      • Flashy

        Vig, i read the article. I’m assuming that the last comment re; George Soros came from somewhere else as it wasn’t in the NYT’s article. Thus, i can’t comment on that.

        But the article does flush out the issues.

        And he is right. Public health cannot be expected to pay for everything. The Oregon health Plan is something that provides a good history of the debate. The OHP “… provides health care coverage to low-income Oregonians through programs administered by the Division of Medical Assistance Programs (DMAP). Currently, more than 600,000 people each month receive health care coverage through the Oregon Health Plan.”

        OK…when first developed about 10 years ago, OHP provided a list of what would be paid. they listed 1 2 3 4 5 somewhere around 130 procedures. Then came the big case. A young teen needing a double lung transplant. have the operation or it was lights out. The OHP said ‘sorry…not covered”. And it hit the news and the uproar was something to behold. the double transplant was going to cost upwards of a million, and would open up the OHP to more of the same claims. They could not afford it under the budget. Kitzhaber was coming up to the end of his first regime then, a Dem., and he backed the OHP decision saying the same. It helped that he was a former Emergency Room physician before going into the governor’s office.

        Kitzhaber withstood the uproar. The OHP would only cover XYZ…the average covered by the average private basic health insurance plan. Fortunately, the uproar was enough to spur donations and she was able to receive her transplant.

        Howver, the debate raged and Kulongowski came into the Governor’s office. Now let me tll you about Teddy. A Dem., and about as useful and active as a rock. No lie..someone once file a Missing person’s Report because he was hardly ever seen or heard from. Best anyone can tell, he sat on his butt and played video games…who knows what teddy was dong?

        As such, he ignored the state. And OHP was expanded to include a number of additional procedures (some organ transplants but not lung etc). it went downhill from there. it lowered payments to doctors which caused them to avoid the Plan like the plague. it was overwhelmed by applicants because ti was free and provided more coverage than private plans…. so folks set their finances up to join the Plan and have otherwise non-covered procedures covered . it was soon a signature disaster in the making. As was almost everything else due to Teddy playing with himself and ignoring the state.

        Teddy left, and Kitzhaber came out of retirement and was elected in a landslide. He has whiped it back into shape and the OHP went back to a more limited list of what is covered. it’s still not back to what it was, but Kitzhaber is getting it back to what it was intended. Basic health care. The average of the average private basic health insurance plan.

        Such is what i would hope Medicaid and Medicare are reformed as. Not increasing costs or limiting applicants due to age etc…

      • Mike in MI

        Vigilant -
        How dare you insinuate yourself with some facts into Flasky’s personal mating dance with some of his favorite Obamaisms. “Tain’t fair, MacGee!” Here he goes to such extremes to avoid being confronted by such ideas or actually having to think about something that is in conflict with the story line he’s supposed to present. He can’t let that kind of stuff get under his mazzuza.

      • Mike in MI

        Well, I’ll be d’…..
        I’ve gotta take it back, Flash. You done yourself good.

        Hey! you …. … score keeper! … … put a tick up over there on the good side for The Flash … maybe, two.

      • Flashy

        ike…my stance hasn’t changed FYI. I have always ben for a public option under Obamacare. think about it. If the basic plan 9average of average0 s offered, and paid for via general funds, the shot to the economy would be tremendous. Employer freed from health care costs and people freed from payment? All that expendable cash? Whoa baby ! Yes…there would be the taxes having to pay for it…but cash on hand versus a one time annual future liability…jehosaphat, a no brainer. Anything or than basic, one has to look to private industry for a rider. And if government is inefficient and costs more or services are inferior? Private insurance can offer up a competing product offering quicker access etc and, in capitalist theory, at a low cost.

        And, at the bottom, everyone is covered at least by the basics.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    With all due respect to Mr. Livingston: “Should the Federal government add spending needed to fix crumbling infrastructure and build new roads, that tax would have to increase to 45 cents per gallon.” and “To raise the $78 billion needed to fix and maintain roads, that would need to rise to $248.” I am not saying we should just go with Obamas plan. But I am pretty sure fixing crumbling infrastructure and building new roads and fixing and maintaining the roads are all very important.

    • Hedgehog

      Jeremy, important to whom?

      • Flashy

        hedgehog….to you as well as everyone else

      • Mike in MI

        Flasky -
        Evidently NOT!!! Didn’t the one who is THE Determiner about what is or is not important make some comments a few years ago about, “shovel ready jobs” that all those nearly a trillion dollars were going to be spent to fix?
        Yah! then they put up the “ACORN” signs, the workers, shovels and coulee hats disappeared and so did the $$$.

        The only thing about it that continued to hang in the air like Ovomit halitosis was his silly, totally in character, decietful worker comment to Jeffy Imelt about, “…not so shovel ready jobs.”

      • Jeremy Leochner

        To anyone who drives or walks on roads or bridges.

    • Andy

      How the he// can any justification be made for higher taxes on ANYTHING as long as the gubmint sends billions upon billions of OUR money to Mexico, Egypt, et al??? As has been said ad nauseum “It ain’t a money problem, it’s a SPENDING problem”!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Understandable. We do need to spend less and spend more responsibly. However we also need to raise revenue. Its not enough to cut back on the junk food. We also need to exercise more.

      • Rock Savage

        Andy,

        You’re 100% correct – the problem is the spending not the money! And, this will not change because America is currently divided by a 50/50 split with regard to the direction America should go. This has occurred twice before in America and both times were very bad for America. I’m referring to the Revolution of 1776 and the Civil War in the 1860s.

        Today, we see a division between people who believe the federal government should provide everybody with everything and the people who want a federal government similar to what our Founding Fathers envisioned, a government that does not support nor fund entitlement programs, a government that does not regulate its people to control them, a government that does not manipulate commerce through tax incentives and regulations, etc., etc., etc.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Rock no one wants the federal government to provide everyone with everything. They want the federal government to make sure everyone has the same basic resources.

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “Rock no one wants the federal government to provide everyone with everything. They want the federal government to make sure everyone has the same basic resources.”

        Hmmmm…. To each according to his need. Very interesting.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Vicki if a person is starving they need food. If they are freezing they need clothing. If a person has been hit by hard times not through their own fault they need support. Those less fortunate and those who have given service need and deserve support. The elderly and military veterans. The working poor and the disabled. Why is it wrong to care for and support these groups?

      • Vicki

        Jeremy Leochner says:
        “Vicki if a person is starving they need food. If they are freezing they need clothing. If a person has been hit by hard times not through their own fault they need support.”

        Why just those who hit hard times through no fault? Don’t the others need food and clothing too? note they don’t actually need clothing. Warm shelter would work fine.

        - Jeremy Leochner: “Those less fortunate and those who have given service need and deserve support. The elderly and military veterans. The working poor and the disabled.”

        Go for it. Use any money you can persuade people to give to your charity. Here is a suggestion of where to look for people who routinely give to charity.
        http://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2006/12/06/who_gives_to_charity/page/full/

        - Jeremy Leochner: “Why is it wrong to care for and support these groups?”

        Where, and be VERY precise have we EVER said it is wrong to care for and support these groups?

  • http://personalliberty.com Larry G.

    If everyone drove electric cars there would be no gas tax revenue. In order to keep the roads driveable and the traffic warning devices operative, there must be revenue. An electric car doesn’t need gas but it does need a road. How do you pay for roads if everyone drove electric cars. Pay tax by the miles you drive of course. Of course there will have to be loop holes and exemptions so only some of us would be paying.

  • Homer

    Why in the hell don’t we just sign over all of our patchecks and let the good, honest people of Washington, D.C. decide (IF) to give us what they deem best! i mean, they have always been upright and have kept allll their promises and have never let us down and I’d say, if the truth be known, when you look for the word honesty in the dictionary, it says..see Washington D..C. Politicians…Stupid, dumb asses, why is it that people alwats aquiese to paying more taxes! There is NO excuse for giving any politicians anty tax that is NOT needed! These taxes are spent destroying govts and influencing other nations and making things go the way wash. thinks they should! they spend money on STUPID non-needed crap and stealing money we ta p[ayers make! Do they pay taxes? Bet not! They don’t pay for health care or S.S etca nd they sure as hell don’t abide by the laws they pass for us! I am SICK of this stupid, arrogant govt from Obama to the bottom…W/VERY FEW Acceptions!! They do NOT OWN me!! They work for me/US!!! They need to start acting like it!!

    • http://yahoo.com BillT

      I’m with you Homer. If you can’t trust the government, who can you trust.

      • dunce

        If you can not trust yourself, then you need to be institutionalized.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Homer “There is NO excuse for giving any politicians anty tax that is NOT needed!” The key is figuring out what is needed and what is not.

      • Vicki

        Read the Constitution as an enumerated list of powers that the (Federal) government gets. Remove ALL programs and departments operating outside that list.

        MUCH smaller government that NEEDS MUCH less money to operate.

        http://www.downsizeDC.org

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Vicki the problem is the world has changed since the time of the founding fathers. In their time only white land owners could vote or hold office. And their focus was less on those less fortunate and more on building a stable republic out of a collection of former colonies. As we have advanced as a society we have come to understand our responsibility as a society to care for the lest among us. As we have come to develop greater resources so we have come to have the responsibility to use those resources wisely. May sound like sentimental hogwash. But wasn’t it Christ who said “And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of the least of these my brothers, you have done it to me.” and was it not Proverbs 19:17 that says “He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.”. If people are going to claim America is a Christian nation shouldn’t our countries policies strive to reflect the teachings of Christ.

      • Vicki

        The bible and Jesus also talk about theft. Taking money from people against their will no matter what the cause is a crime.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        Jeremy if the constitution is out of date there is a provision for changing it. That provision is called amending the constitution. If you were old enough to have actualy been taught American history you would know this. Until it is amended the constitution stands as written.

  • RivahMitch

    If the money raised goes for roads and the mileage tax is determined by odometer readings, it’s a reasonable idea. However, with a GPS and a “Black Box” destined for every car and most of the money likely being flushed away on “high speed real projects”…No Thanks!

    • Flashy

      ” flushed away on “high speed real projects””

      Rivah … high speed rail is a pleasure to have. heck, modern light rail for that matter. takes a lot of cars off the road and re-establishes neighborhoods.

      When I have a meeting in Seattle, i have three options. Air, drive, train. Air, at first glance, appears to be the quickest. But drive to the airport, pay for the parking, the procedures for getting on the flight…and being dropped off far away fro where the action is..necessitating a rental car.

      I could drive, but note that when judgment was passed on Socrates, they gave him the choice…drink the Hemlock or drive in Seattle traffic. Add in the wer and tear on body and car, as well as driving itslf costs in gas etc…

      The third is by train. because of the beginnings of trains and cities, almost every city has the station downtown. Clean, relaxing, able to walk around and stretch, or get work done in those huge plush comfortable seats. Yep…wifi available all the way.

      All three take about the same amount of time (unless you hit anywhere near rush hour…then both air and driving take lot more time. The most expensive is air, the least expensive is rail.

      I take rail. not even a question unless i have to get out to the outer ares of Seattle….their public transportation system sucks. When folks come down from Seattle? they usually take rail every time. Come to Portland, and they can take MAX or the trolleys to every major area of the city and points in between. Go to Seattle downtown? Cars and little pedestrian actionj. Portland? Trolleys, MAX, and cars..and vibrant storefronts serving the masses of non-car pedestrians.

      High speed rail? With little additional thought…absolutely a good thing. Without doubt. Both in urban renewal as well as energy savings.

      • robb

        Ahhh…but would you take the rail if YOU had to pay for it instead of those who do not use it?

      • Flashy

        Use it..or benefit by it?

        Drive Seattle traffic. I kid you not…Socrates would still have chosen the hemlock given the option of that nightmare. Seattle has one rush hour….consisting of 18 hours a day. I was back east a bit ago, and had to deal with that mess. i swear, there were times I was hoping someone would take me out and cap me…put me out of the misery so to speak. Compare with Portland. A Metro area approaching 2 million. Servicing a surrounding series of satellite Towns/hubs adding another half million or so. If you’re stuck in crawl, and it lasts more than a mile or so…it’s not a usual event. Mass transit everywhere, affordable and easily accessible. Land Use which compacted the urban area so drives are shorter and far more options available as far as streets, highways routes etc. (you can be downtown, and in 15 minutes be in rural).

        I would argue anyone who lives in Portland receives a huge benefit to those utilizing the trains and trolleys and buses. Should they not help keep it and pay for that benefit ?

      • Leslie Craig

        So Flashy by your on statement you get around the gas tax now and would be avoiding it more in the future so you don’t care if the government taxes those of us who live in rural areas more because we have no trains and electric cars are no very well suited to our conditions. As long as you have ways to get around it you could care less about others.

  • Homer

    GREED, UNLESS IT IS STOPPED will continue until it destroys whatever it touches…This govt has been to greedy for to long! To prove this: see the list of expenditures in the budget, then check out the waste and theft in the govt!! The MORE control this, or any govt gets, the more they will get until it will strangle the nation it controls! Wars always follow!!

    • Rock Savage

      Homer – the two biggest, by far, human motivators are “greed” and “fear” and those two are clearly being displayed through the actions of the federal government.

      Put your seat belt on; it’s going to be a stomach-churning ride and in the end, a New America will emerge!

  • Floridastorm

    Gee, I thought that billions were allocated for infrastructure (roads, bridges, etc.) under the TARP bill almost 4 years ago. What ever happened to that money? Sure isn’t much infrastructure work going on that I know of. Oh well, what’s a few billion here and a few billion there among friends?

    • Rock Savage

      You’re right – there were billions allocated but when the funds were released, they were re-diverted which is a very popular gaming system the federal government uses. I could write a book on how many times this game has been played in Washington (especially the Pentagon).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004022485564 Bill Johnson

    There is no problem with a vacation that used more fuel than I have in 62 years and I will bet it was tax exempt fuel. Tax his familys vacations and apply it to the national debt. better yet get rid of this scum and the problem can be solved by people who have experiance in buisness cause he hasn’t any………….

  • Liberty Justice

    The Constitution does not provide for a federal transportation department and therefore, this is all unconstitutional. It should be left to the states and local governments to fund highways and bridges based on the 10th amendment.

    • Flashy

      try thinking…it helps. talk to any trucker and ask if he’d be in support of state run road system. try driving across country and then say it should be state by state. If you want a Balkanization of this nation…then you would support doing away with the NTA road system. (and kill commerce and cause huge increases in prices)

      • robb

        The free market is a wonderful way to get things done. (Note please that I said free market. I was not referring to the government scewed fascist state that currently masquarades as the free market here in the US) If states don’t want to keep up their roads it is only their own commerce that will suffer. States will actually do a great job keeping up roads without the federal spend monsters skimming off their percentage as it’s the difference between life an death for the states. It’s called accountability and accepting that there are consequences for action or inaction. These are things they are not required to understand in Washington. If anyone in Washington was truly held accountable no one would have been re-elected last November. Instead the same old gang of Keystone cops is back marching us toward extinction.

      • Flashy

        “If states don’t want to keep up their roads it is only their own commerce that will suffer” <— robb

        Yeah? try telling that to the state on the other side where the goods are being shipped.

  • Ks_Girl

    Can the Federal Government run lotteries like Powerball or state lottos? If yes, then maybe instead of raising everyone’s gas and power costs, TAXES! they should just do lotteries and earmark a percentage to go to road/bridge repair, whatever.

    • robb

      Oh yes…more gambling venues. You do realize that lotteries are not by and large played by those who can afford all those tickets. Lottery tickets are simply a tax on the poor. While the poor are not required to pay it…inevitably they do. Then we do….over and over. Great idea….more gambling.

      • KS_Girl

        Thanks for being just semi rude instead of full on rude. Yes, I realize who plays the lottery. As do middle class and dang, even well off folks try it out. All I was suggesting that perhaps it was an alternative to taxing gas further, by gallon or by mile. As with all these add-on taxes, the poor will suffer the most.

      • Rock Savage

        robb,

        I respectfully disagree. it’s not simply a tax on the poor, as you day. For many years now, that expression has been misused often and is a mislabeling of the facts. It can’t be called a tax on the poor without also calling it a tax on the rich and the middle class!

        And, the comment that “by and large played by those who can….” is misleading because there are no records or documentation identifying the purchaser of a lottery ticket and their income.

      • Vicki

        And robb ignores the BEST part of the whole lottery system. Unlike taxes which are taken from you at GUNPOINT, Lottery “taxes” are paid willingly by the taxbase.

        In fact it solves the problem I was having in a system of ‘fair’ taxation where those who vote for a tax PAY the tax. My system would not work because of the desire for a secret ballot.

        The lottery system IS a secret voting system.

        Nice.

  • ibcamn

    so this idiot in the white house who wants electric cars is now setting the standard for us(gas car driving people)to pay,yet again,for others to drive.but on the funny side of that,electric and hy-breed car drivers are gonna have to start paying too.they have to start paying on their cute little cars some on taxes and some on new taxes that are being considered to people who drive elec cars because they drive elec cars!boy thats messed up even for them,quit your crying,you bought it!the Obama faction will try to cram through some bill that will put some tracker in your car and in new cars.we will just by-pass it and tell them to kiss our a$$es!thats why we already pay certain taxes is to repair roads,but Obama and his henchmen take that tax money and spend it on their raises or something,but they don’t spend it where it is suppose to go to,why do we have to pay again for same thing?so people,once they figure the little gizmo they will TRY to stick on my car,they will run into a snag trying to get that thing on my vehicles,now lets talk gun control………..

  • Sgt. York

    i’m just wondering just where in the dear ol government Flashy works? We get O’Vomit’s Shills everywhere now a days. Big Brother is Watching You

  • Terry Bateman

    How about a one-time special federal highway trust fund tax charged to all individual
    taxpayers to fully fund the total amount needed to fix our highway, and bridge infrastructure, ? Then the federal government can immediately repair, replace, and
    expand our highways and bridges and put thousands of people to work. That would
    be a great economic stimulus plan that does not add a dime to the federal deficit.

    • robb

      And that will be a one time tax….just like the temporary income tax. Trust fund!? Can you say Social Security? How about if we cut everybody in Washingtons pay and benefits in half, steal their retirement fund, eliminate lifetime salaries for Senators and Reprisentatives put all those savings in a fund and fix the roads. Now there’s a great plan to start with.

      • Chester

        Robb, you do need to do a little research on things before blowing off steam. Seems like that “lifetime” paycheck for ex senators and ex representatives has NOT been a fact for upwards of thirty years. Since 1984 they have been on the same retirement program as all other federal employees, with the exception of the military. You pay into the program from day one, but are guaranteed nothing until you have been on the job for five years, and then can’t draw a cent until you are sixty. So, is NOT a lifetime paycheck any more for anyone other than the president.

      • Brad in TX

        How about if you run foir President you also give that time of 100% to the job the people electred you to do. If you serve 4 years thart would be 4 years with no vacations and no pay. Most of these guys are millionatres anyway and then they make a few 100 million while in office writing a book. I cant find time to write a paper to pass a class, much less abook while I’m supposed to be working for the peple who elected me. If you dont want to job dont run for office,stops the power grabbing and brings it back to serving the posstion.

      • Terry Bateman

        The federal highway trust fund worked to build the best interstate highway system
        in the world and it can work to keep it that way whether it is funded by a one-time
        special tax or tripling the federal gas tax.

        • Brad in TX!!

          Batman it is probably not a good idea to wash down your stupid pills with vodka!

          • Bob666

            Gee Wiz Bradman,
            you’re just not a happy kind of guy?

  • rural dweller

    What about those who drive on dirt roads ( most not maintained by the gov ) and
    on asphalt highways ? How do they make the mileage tax work for that ?

    If they do this, not only will you pay more of gas,( mileage tax ) but for everything transported by it. A double whammy!

    • 45caliber

      If you have a new vehicle (any vehicle with OnStar) they report to you your milage each month along with other things like tire pressure. What the government wants to do is take that milage and bill you for the milage you drive that month. It doesn’t matter to them if you drive interstate, secondary roads, dirt roads, or even use it on a farm where it NEVER gets on a road. They simply want the money and they don’t care how they get it.

  • stanli richardso

    Interesting thought, electric cars, with the electric grid at it’s limit how in the world is that going to help anyone, except Caligula? He too passed laws that he wanted, not what was the best for his people. Wake up it is time to stop the insanity. If it falls, all will pay, some with their lives. All that put Caligula back in office should be ashamed. The complete structure is corrupt time to start over…just saying

  • http://www.facebook.com/samuel.scrutchins Samuel Scrutchins

    This is actually one of the few decent ideas coming out of the Obama administration. Our transportation infrastructure is in dire need of repair and improvments. It’s not fair, in my opinion, that electric and hybrid vehicle operators get a free ride while they do as much damage and have as great a need for highways and bridges as do traditional gas-powered vehicles. One of the very few government programs that I support is its responsibility to maintain national infrastructure, and all citizens who use that infrastructure should share in the costs to maintain and extend it. I therefore disagree with this article and its implications. It is time to change the system.

  • http://www.facebook.com/samuel.scrutchins Samuel Scrutchins

    This is not a comment. It was the only way I could get back to the “Notify me….” box. This needs to be reprogrammed.

  • AL C.

    FAIR SHARE! FAIR SHARE! FAIR SHARE! Tired of listening to that message from OBAMA that is not applied FAIRLY to ALL OF US. In the case of GASOLINE TAX vs MILEAGE TAX, it is UNFAIR that the majority of vehicles who use GASOLINE OR DIESEL powered propulsion engines are paying FUEL TAXES to build and maintain HIGHWAY INFRASTRUCTURE while ELECTRIC and HYBRID POWERED VEHICLES PAY NOTHING or much less per mile driven. There is NO FAIRNESS when SPECIFIC CATEGORIES of VEHICLE OWNERS are able to “FREELOAD” on the backs of OWNERS WHO USE GASOLINE OR DIESEL to Power thier VEHICLES. HOW DO WE FIX THIS PROBLEM? NOT AN EASY ANSWER. We have elected the President and Members of Congress to manage this PROBLEM. MOST FAIR MINDED AMERICANS are willing to pay a FAIR SHARE of the expense to BUILD and MAINTAIN our Highway System. We are NOT WILLING TO STAND BY and watch some of us pay for the GASOLINE TAX and OTHERS get a FREE RIDE. To SOLVE THE PROBLEM, A GOOD PLACE TO START would be to eliminate STATE AND FEDERAL TAXES ON FUEL. AFTER THAT, OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS should consider going to work and perform the job for which they were ELECTED to SOLVE. THE PROBLEM must be SOLVED IN A MANNER WHICH ALLOWS ALL OF US TO PAY OUR “FAIR SHARE” for the PRIVILEGE of using the STATE and FEDERAL HIGHWAY SYSTEM.

    • Hedgehog

      Divide and conquer at work again! Now they’ve got the electric car people and the gas/diesel vehicle people fighting with each other. Pulling your minds away from the gun issue. Hang together people or you will assuredly hang one at a time!

  • http://yahoo A Haskins

    With the government trying to switch every one over to electric cars and hybrids, then they need to build them with GPS so that they can pay for road usage. Cars with the worst mileage pay more and ones that get better usually weigh less and do less damage to the roads anyway.

    I think that a pay by the mile is just another way to try and tax more.

    But what else would you expect from our present administration.

  • Ben Gardner

    More people need to switch to diesel. My middle son has driven a VW diesel for almost 20 years. During that time, he has paid $0.00 for fuel and $0.00 in state and local fuel taxes. Rudolph Diesel designed his engine to run on vegetable oil, NOT petroleum. My son works for a restaurant and is also friends with the managers of a couple of McDonalds and Burger Kings. He collects their waste vegetable oil (deep fryer grease), filters it, and puts it directly into his tank. If they go to an annual registration fee, he’s screwed, but under the current paradigm, he pays nothing except maintenance on his vehicle. Some day they may catch him, but at the moment there is NO federal law mandating that you pay a tax to drive, only on their manufactured fuel. (I know that Washington State has already instituted a special registration tax on hybrids and electric vehicles to try to gouge the citizens for the fuel taxes they miss out on.

  • concerned citizen

    UMMMMM>… people?
    I have been to a meeting with a good group of civil engineers in the past, and guess what?? CARS and LIGHT TRUCKS DON”T WEAR OUT PAVEMENTS… SEMI/TRACTOR TRAILERS DO.
    Dumptrucks with heavy loads, trash machines, tree service trucks…. those heavy-weight vehicles are the culprits. Also, poor road design where water freezes and breaks concrete and asphalt during winter months….. those are the evil-doers…
    Tax the commercial trucks and government vehicles… not the people whose cars do nothing to impact the roadways…
    Studded tires for heavy winter areas do cut gouges into streets… but the fed doesn’t maintain most of those…the city does.
    Let’s focus on who to blame correctly and stop taxing people who have nothing to do with the issue.
    That would be like making a tax on cheese that will provide money for health programs for smokers….

  • 71unicorn

    The ultimate solution to this lack of funding for roads, etc. is to tax excess speed. Anyone who travels the interstate system knows that the majority of vehicles exceed the speed limit by varying and often significant amounts. This would be a “voluntary” tax. Here is how it could be implemented. The vehicle’s computer would be linked to the speedometer and a built-in GPS system which could record the vehicle’s speed and specific location and number of miles of excess speed. The data would be saved and periodically – like an emissions check the data would be downloaded and processed. The GPS system would be capable of determining the speed limit of the specific section of roadway. A predetermined amount of excess speed over the posted speed limit would be the threshold for determining the amount of tax. It could be progressive such that the higher the amount of excess speed the greater the unit tax. This is not intended to act as means of giving speeding tickets. The concept is based on the reality in the absence of law enforcement- a great number of drivers exceed speed limits by significant amounts. So why not tax them. If you don’t drive with excessive speed over the posted limit you pay no tax. I doubt that such a tax would have much affect on the average driver who pushes the speed limits.

    • 45caliber

      I’m not sure where you live but it is undoubtedly in a crowded area such as New England.

      In most Western states and many Southern states, the speed limit is somewhat ridiculous. They have attempted to set a 55 mph speed several times in this area (Texas). When you drive 50 to 100 miles one way to work, you need to drive faster than that. In fact, recently in TX they are experimenting with a legal speed limit of 85 on certain roads. The roads are made for a MINIMUM of 70 mph. Most of the lower speed limits are made by someone who seldom drives on interstate highways or long distances who have no idea of the problems with slower speeds.

      In crowded areas a lower speed (and following the speed limit) may be justified but not when it is 100 miles to the next town.

    • 45caliber

      Another thing. Check the GPS. Some areas on the GPS show speeds that are no longer correct. I know several spots where the GPS shows a speed limit of 70 when the actual speed limit is 60 – and I know of a couple where it is the other way around. I also know of many places where the GPS shows a stop sign – when there is a stop light or yield sign now. And you want to depend upon the GPS to tell the government you are breaking a law?

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    People had better get acquainted with the “Psychopaths” that are running our nation!

    Webster Tarpley: The Elite’s Plan for Global Extermination (FL-HD)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3Eo2YTQUr8 (WARNING-VERY DISTURBING)

    • Right Brain Thinker

      This is a reply I made to JAY on another of today’s threads where JAY posted the exact same comment. It is appropriate to post it here again with just a few added comments in CAPS and (parens) inserted. I said,

      “WTS/JAY is apparently looking in on even the “obscure” threads on PLD today, like this one which has only 18 responses as I write. I’ll have to surf the others and see if he is spouting inflammatory horsepucky on them also.
      (HE IS—-THE EXACT SAME HORSEPUCKY)

      JAYS latest game seems to be going back to the days of the old Wake The Sleepers (JAY) and posting crazy stuff—-just like yelling “Fire” in a crowded movie theater. I thought he had outgrown that.

      Some of you may have noticed the exchange he and I had on the “Gun Grab” thread. I’m sorry to say that JAY is at it again on this thread (AS WELL AS THE WELFARE SPENDING THREAD), posting a link with an inflammatory title as some sort of evidence that we should believe his insane statement that “Psychopaths are running our nation”. Lord love a duck, JAY! Will you ever stop trying to mislead folks and stir them up over nothing? Is it that much fun to do so?

      I went to the link—-”Webster Tarpley: The Elite’s Plan for Global Extermination” and discovered it’s nearly an hour long. This is one of JAY’s propaganda tricks too. Spend just a few minutes looking for something with an inflammatory title (JAY doesn’t actually have to watch it, just give the link), make an unfounded assertion about “psychopaths” and give the link, knowing that nobody is going to spend an hour watching it. Even if they do watch it, very few are likely to take notes, analyze it, and compose a reply. So JAY “pollutes your subconscious” with very little effort, and you would have to spend 1-1/2 to 2 hours to “come back”. I will waste 10 minutes for you.

      I DID view the link and analyze it’s contents. But only to a point—–it took only a few minutes to strongly suspect that Webster Tarpley is a wing nut. So I skipped ahead and looked at several short segments. In each and every one of those small samplings, Tarpley said things that proved that he is indeed a wing-nut, making many outrageous statements. I should say that this video clip consists of Tarpley “reviewing” the writings of John P. Holdren, the current White House science advisor, by flipping through a book and making comments on what Holdren said, and most of his comments would result in him being laughed out of the room in any gathering of serious scientists. For instance, Tarpley seems to think that it is “no problem” if the population of the earth rises to 45 billion in the immediate future—that’s 6-1/2 times the present population of 7 billion and I would love to know the name of ANY scientist who agrees with him.

      Actually, what Tarpley did was ATTACK Holdren—-anyone who would make up so much horsepucky to attack someone must really have some sort of grudge—-maybe Holdren ran over his dog?. Or did Holdren run over JAY’s dog, and is JAY just using Tarpley to try to get even?

      In closing, everyone should ask themselves why JAY would post something that is mainly an attack on the president’s SCIENCE advisor on a thread that is concerned with welfare expenditures. Can JAY answer that? Will he? Jay? (AND I WILL ASK THE SAME AGAIN HERE—-THIS IS A THREAD ABOUT TAXES, JAY—-WHY POST THIS COMMENT HERE?)

      • Right Brain Thinker

        PS I forgot to mention that the two comments are not exactly the same. JAY has appended (WARNING-VERY DISTURBING) to this second posting.

        I agree with him. It is VERY DISTURBING that JAY is playing some kind of game with us and abusing our trust. Very “controlling”, JAY, when you try to propagandize folks rather than help them seek real truth.

  • 45caliber

    Two reasons for this.

    1) More money. (And does anyone REALLY believe that they will replace the fuel tax with a road tax? I think they will use both.)

    2) They can tax the electric cars, etc. that they can’t tax now since they don’t use gasoline.

  • 45caliber

    Incidentally, there are diesel cars and trucks in Europe that get up to 75 mpg. But it is illegal to bring them here and/or sell them here. The reason? The government would lose too much money from fuel taxes – the same reason that fuel economy on cars has gone up so little over the last 30 years or so.

    • http://midcontent ridge runner

      What sorry azzed idoits put thhe restrictions on bring these vehicles to the USA, why it is the EPA, democrats, and green weiny enviors. In 2008 one of my daughters wanted to buy a used car, since she had graduated college. She bought a 2003 VW deisel, that still gets over 50 mpg/34 mpg in town. In 2008 the muslim educated marxist and the socialist/communist democrats stopped all imports from EU because their diesel made way better mileage, this was for a year and a half. Why because it wasn’t green energy, and diesel is so damn easy to make. Crude only has to be heated over 200 degrees, not 380 degrees with cooling systems, look at the cost of diesel and gas, diesel is a cash cow and gas and ethonal are high cost and need mandates and subsidies. When we were short of gas The EU sent shipoads of gas to the USA, becuse theyrun on diesel. More BS from the tax crooks and envioro numskulls. Every USA vehicle manufacturing companies can not ship their vehicles or sell their diesl models over here.Elected any social/communist democrat to power and one guarrenteed result will be a more lies, higher taxes, more expansion of government hiring of morons who can not survive in the real world, and more broken laws they get away with.

  • goodsteve

    If some of those idiots in Washington have their way, this country could wind up
    returning back to the beginning days of motoring history, where only the rich, the
    famous, the powerful, and the otherwise well to do will have the privelege to own
    and operate private motorized vehicles. As for little people, they’ll just have to
    get used to pumping bicycle peddles, taking care of horses, and becoming well
    aquqinted with the insides of transit buses and trollys, trains, subways, ferry boats,
    etc. I realize that America’s love affair with the automobile has gotten us all spoiled,
    however that’s a downright abyssmal excuse to deprive the majority of hard working
    Americans of access to private motorized transportation, be it through excessive
    taxes and /or other fees, or otherwise.

    • http://midcontent ridge runner

      Agree with you steve, and you forgot the hand labor to grow food and being in chains and down in the ctton patch, some minorities will feel right at homein their hutches with a government issued ear tag and a computor chip. But on the positive there will be no shucking and jiving or whining about working shifts or week ends. Also w will not worry about college degrees, and needing to do nothing useful to get some housing and food. Tofu and avegan diet just will not keep them going, it will be road kill and fat dogs and cats will suffice and some wheat flour. Also the Global Warming will prove to be BS as living off of nature will come with a 50% death lose every year The first few years will have over 80% death lose and maybe slow down as the concrete degreed ones die off and nobody will give a rats ear about them, and the cold turkey hard core drug users will be eating lead paint sniffing any thing rank.

  • Average Joe

    I really don’t look at this as a tax issue….I look at it from the position of limiting movement.
    As with everything else the the government does, it’s about control.
    Think about it for a moment, Patriot Act, NDAA,SOPA,PIPA, TSA, Militarized Police Forces, Agenda 21, The Food Safety and Modernization Act Multi-Nationals drills ( across America),The Attack on the 2nd Amendment…..and now limiting movement.
    The ultimate goal… Economic collapse, followed byCivil war, which will then be followed by martial law and blue helmets.

    AJ

  • Mark O’Neil

    The American public will not put up with this abuse on our freedoms I would like to see how they plan to enforce such a tax.

  • Ben Gardner

    I think we all know that any funds collected will not go to the “highway trust fund”. There is no trust fund. It will be funneled into something totally stupid like the pentagon or the military to fund overseas aggression.

  • vietnamvet1971

    Just like the social security trust fund (Trust fund, Joke) the Highway Trust Funds are probably being Spent on any thing & every thing The Big, Bad, Behemoth, Bloated, Bankrupt Gimme-mint wants then it is another Bankrupt program. I like the way they name the programs as “Trust Funds” that should tell us it is a LIE, there is NO TRUST in this Corrupt Gimme-mint.

  • Bruce Gavlik

    We need to switch over to some kind of per mile system both state and federal. With electric and nat.gas vehicles becoming more prolific — I think it’s only fair.

  • eli jones

    Let them tax Air Force One and Air Force Two plus all the helicopters, etc., FIRST. No greater carbon footprint hath any man than this: that he sell his honor for the sake of being King of the Globe! Shades of Al Gore selling out to Al-be-Gore’d Jezeera!!

  • gus

    Hahaha… The reason for this is to get the rural people into or closer to the city where it’s easier to round them up for their fema reeducation camps. So they can brainwash us like they’ve done to all the city slickers! I travel 160 miles a day so I don’t have to live among the walking zombies, the osama supporters……Wake up Fools

  • Carol Brink

    Our Government has made slaves of all of us. And it is amazing how many people accept it as necessary. Pay more gasoline tax to build and maintain the roads is but just one example. Voters actually approve bond issues, because if we don’t the schools will fall apart and our children will not learn. Want those pot holes fixed, will then pay the city coffers more tax money. Folks, we are being taxed to death, all of us, not just the wealthy. Along with the taxes comes government control and loss of our freedom. Isn’t it time, we all contacted our Congressional representatives and “Just Said NO” to increased taxes and regulations? Seems like most of the money goes for bloated government salaries, wasted or given to foreign nations for them to waste. The more taxes we accept, the more that will be imposed upon us. Elected officials, no matter what they say while begging us to vote for them, will once elected morph into tax raising, regulation imposing dictatiors. Few have a clue of how to lead and actually propel the Country forward.

  • Bob666

    “Tires wear out roads not gas. I would expect the purchase of tires to include a road tax. Then the bigger the tire the greater the tax. Trucks do more damage but studded tires cause more wear on the roads. So in one sense this would be a tax per mile without tracking anyone.”

    This is actually a pretty good idea regarding tires. I have been in the construction industry for many years building infrastructure and every state DOT is trying to deal with the shortfall of funding that comes from fuel taxes. My wife and dive the same amount of miles that we did ten years ago, but use about 36% less fuel since the cars that we drive today get better mileage. But our buying habits in tires has not changed since the same amount of rubber is still hitting the pavement.

    One of the ideas kicked around has been to charge every driver a fee based on the type of road they drive on. If you drove on an interstate, you would pay a higher fee per mile than if you drive on a rural two lane road since they cost less to maintain and build and the charge for an urban road would be even less. Large trucks do far more damage to roadway than cars and since they have more tires, the taxes would be more even in proportion to the wear and tear done.

    While we do complain about taxes and government, this is one more area that government is the most effective answer to providing a service to the citizens.

    • Bob666

      and yes, I know there will be comments.

    • Elda

      The problem you are having Bob is that it is not about roads, tires, or gas…..it is about control of money and people just like Obama care is not about getting people healthy. It is about getting control of money and people.

      • Bob666

        Yo Elda,
        if this were the united states of Elda, how would you deal with the issue?

        smoe people complian and others find solutions.

        • Brad in TX

          Yea Bob that reality Elda pointed out is a bitch isnt it? but you liberals have to bully your way back to felling better about that enormous guilt you deal with

          • Bob666

            Yo Brad,
            not at all, I would just like to hear about a solution rather than a Bit*ch fest.

  • Guy Waukcinebar

    How should the country encourage conservation? Make it cheaper to buy cars that conserve energy. How will the country encourage citizens to continue buying large trucks and SUV’s which get poor gas mileage? Start charging taxes by the mile instead of by the gallon. As ususal, the government wants to do just exactly the opposite of what it should do.

  • Elda

    This is AGENDA 21! The people that live near everything will not be impacted and those that live in rural communities and live more or less independant of all the rat race will be punished for that independance. It will force people into tighter and tighter living quarters. Well, I am preparing to live in a gas free way as far from civilization as possible and this will just hurry me along that path.

  • old hillbilly

    The issue is more tax and bureaucracy to raise taxes, with lots of complexities, laws and regulations to keep their sheep on a leash. WAKE UP AMERICA – JUST SAY NO!!!

    HELL NO!!!

  • Holland

    Raise the fuel taxes,road taxes and the costs will become reflected at the market.Food costs will rise.The taxes raised by fuel and road taxes have gone where? The neglect of the infrastructure has been the result of the current taxes being diverted to the general fund.Social Security funds have fallen into the general fund since Lyndon Johnson. It is the old government shell game.Fix a problem and create 10 new problems.Going to electric cars solves what when the EPA is closing power plants all over the place.Electric costs go up.Raise use taxes,fuel taxes and every thing else goes up equally. Pet projects to buy off congressional votes steals funds,All the aid to other countries drains funds,Sending money to all the other central bakers,the AIG’s,Treasury buying out all the trash mortgage paper.
    It is not a tax issue ,it is a SPENDING ISSUE. You have whole departments of government that do nothing they were created to do but suck billions out of the economy. To expect government to solve problems is to surrender your soverienty and to self subjegate your self to tyrrany.

    • Bob666

      Yo Holland,
      If this were about any other function of government, I would agree with you. But the fact is; when you invest in infrastructure, you get an economic return and I don’t care where you if this comes from economist on the right or left.

      China has spent a record amount on infrastructure for a reason. The only thing that is holding India behind is a lack of infrastructure.

      Again, the question that I would pose to anyone on this board is; how would you handle or administrate it?

      I would really like to hear rational answers.

      Think about this as you drive to the grocery store, to work, to church or school. With out good safe and right capacitated roads, you life would be far less productive and more difficult. This is the number one reason that our country has been able to compete in the global environment to this point.

      • Brad in TX

        municiples get local bids and they vote it in what makes the most sence for that community. We have survived 200 plus years on privarte sector and are the #1 economy for the longest time , succussfully more that any othe rnation because of free enterprises. Socialism has failed within all testing plain and simple. Dont fall for the big government is bertter crap America.

        • Bob666

          Yo Brad,
          “municiples get local bids and they vote it in what makes the most sence for that community. We have survived 200 plus years on privarte sector and are the #1 economy for the longest time , succussfully more that any othe rnation because of free enterprises”.
          ‘ment
          you are correct about that, TDOT has one of the largest highway budgets in the USA, where do you believe that money comes from”

          Answer: ‘Da Gob’ment”.

          how the question is; how would you do it better?

          • Brad n TX

            Not with large government, let private sector bid for state and local infrastructure after the people vote what is best for them. What goes some dumb ass in DC know about what we need in TX? Answer: Nothing!

          • Bob666

            Brad,
            Again, the question is; how would you do it better?

          • Brad n TX

            Well don’t look at me I’m not a community organizer, we have one but I don’t think he can organize a church choir

          • Bob666

            Brad,
            “Well don’t look at me I’m not a community organizer”,

            Gee Wiz Brad, would you like some cheese with that wine. Here is my problem on sites like this, Obumer this -Osama bin Bama that.

            On transportation, like defense, Government is the best equiped to handle it. Want a change, organize your community and make a change. Find somthing other than a nut case and I might vote for him/her.

            Otherwise, your just whining.

    • Brad in TX

      AND OBAMA say’s….SUCKERS!!

      • Brad in TX

        And the N R GIRLS SING….. DOOO< DA DOO< DA DOOO< DA< DOO DA DOOO

  • Jimbo

    The government mandated addition of MTBE’s and alcohol to our gasoline, reduced our MPG significantly. If they are going to tax the miles we travel, it’s time they stopped adulterating the product!

  • Chuck S

    1) Wasn’t Obama’s $700+ billion stimulus package supposed to go to “shovel-ready” projects like roads and bridges?

    2) A lot of gas tax doesn’t go to roads and bridges, but to rail projects, bike paths, etc. The rail projects, especially, are very expensive. The riders love them, but the taxpayers pay the great majority of their fares. Let’s cut or stop these subsidies.

    3) There may be a lot of corruption in the road construction operation. One big expense is probably requirements that they be done by union contractors.

    • Bob666

      Yo Chuck,

      1) “Wasn’t Obama’s $700+ billion stimulus package supposed to go to “shovel-ready” projects like roads and bridges?”

      There was a great deal of stimulus that did go into highway construction and maintenance, the amount was dependant on the state you look at.

      2) “A lot of gas tax doesn’t go to roads and bridges, but to rail projects, bike paths, etc. The rail projects, especially, are very expensive. The riders love them, but the taxpayers pay the great majority of their fares. Let’s cut or stop these subsidies.”

      The vast majority of gas tax goes onto roads and bridges, while some money goes into rail projects, this again is dependent on the state that you look at. Only about one out if six states has a commuter rail program.

      3) “There may be a lot of corruption in the road construction operation. One big expense is probably requirements that they be done by union contractors”

      I am not aware of any state that specifically requires infrastructure projects be produced by union labor. I could be wrong on this, but the nine states that I do business in have no such requirements.

      • old hillbilly

        BO dug a hole & burried it! N knows where!

        • Brad in TX

          That money is getingb ready to promote his new campaign for a third term. He knows he wont get any new contributions from Americans

      • Brad in TX

        oblem is no one knows this, MSM is not reporting the truth. The elite are giving Obama a pass on al the crap that is killing this great country.

  • old hillbilly

    Someone mentioned Agenda 21, & the rest are worked up over EPA, conservation, faaaiirness, & how we can make sure everybody gets anything anybody else isn’t already getting…(screwed) and who can we trust to allocate all this crap and keep endless records to document every move and thought that goes between our ears… and we’re right back to Agenda 21. They have a plan & our million dollar progressive legislative neutron puppets are scrubbed & programmed for the task.

    Will we pass out condoms for squirrels or is there enough acorns to regenerate the oaks? If there aren’t enough squirrels for the hawks to eat, there won’t be a need for oak trees to nest in. Will the squirrels or hawks get too fat and die before their time (whatever time that might be)? Are the acorns too big – too much fat content in the squirrel meat… regulate, regulate, & try more. Then, with all the leaves in the fall and lightning strikes… and all the carnage of squirrels, acorns, trees, toads… and S_M_O_K_E & CARBON, what will Al Gore think?

    ANALYZE the problem – LOOK at Al! His arteries aren’t clogged with carbon… IT”S fat – fat off the land… your land! Global warming isn’t because you turn your thermostat up to 70! It’s Fat Albert’s jet toting that fat butt round & round the globe like the Hindenburg carrying the Titanic @ 600mph, just to see what’s happening up above all the dummies willing to pay for his show & sell.

    THINK – Man made pollution is made by man and the quantity is related to the quantity of people. The US population realized all by themselves that because resources are limited, and we figured out how to utilize them, that life would continue and be better if we reproduced in kind rather than overpopulate earth and die of diminishing returns. Between BO, the Clintons, and Bushes we have progressively slaughtered 45 million babies, to the point where government taxes “us” to pay the executioners. & now BO’s government provides free “prevention” at taxpayer expense. That huge environmental decrease should more than offset Fat Al’s spins around the world & the BO bomber squadrons that tote BO, Michelle & friends on their weekend outings. Mustn’t forget “Nanny’s” junkets.

    SO, why would BO & the repubbleCRATS be so compelled to invite “immigrants” to this polluted, resource depleted, financially bankrupted, and machine-gun killer nation? Why would they be “compromising” and “coming together” to force another 30 million poor hard working people who reproduce like rabbits in government welfare “cubicles”? They’ve already invaded the country, are on welfare, appreciative, and faithfully vote “progressive”, but they’re not tattooed (documented). And, that brings us back to agenda 21… the power to rule, tax, spend, and fly around the world with fat Al, if you’re “important”, whenever he feels like it!

    Wouldn’t it be easier, peaceful, and wonderful in this land of milk and honey if we just said no to hell! We have a few good leaders, isn’t it past time to impeach by enforcing existing Constitution & law, vote out, run out those who are deliberately destroying our country. Agenda 21 is a plan and activity for the purpose of overthrowing our Constitution and government. That’s treason. Conviction by due process carries death penalty. By the same token, failure to preserve the Constitution and justice has a long history of death by the swords of evil Hitler, Stalin, and on and on, by the millions without due process at the will of tyrants who destroy freedom.

    We don’t need billions of laws and regulations no one understands nor has the lifetime to read. Try a page or two of Exodus 20 – worked over centuries, until now!

  • Kelvin

    Toll roads are privately owned roads

    • Bob666

      Yo Kevin
      “Toll roads are privately owned roads”
      in part, generally heald by a turn-pike authoriety-as an extension of a state DOT. they do tend to operate like a business.

    • barbara

      I think toll roads and maybe a little more tax on gas. We don’t want to get everyone’s panties in a wad with the mileage thing (OBAMA WANTS TO KNOW WHERE I GO)

    • Brad in TX

      Tollroads in TX have used Bond money and also private enterprise has funded. I think some foreing company owns the George Bush in DFW. And it is a very nice HWY. Why should I care who owns the road as long as they are mantaing the road I wish to travel as my option…

  • http://midcontent ridge runner

    Better tax this muslim marxist congental lying puke for all of his and the Grumps golfing and shopping parties. Per Hour costs of just fuel costs ttaxpayer $190,000 per hour, and that is only going one way. Any (green) idoit that thinks we are going to have battery powered cars, definitely lives in a theorized fairy land. AS temps drop batteries quit being at top effiency, and how many match box models were operating in the -40 temps? When any road is wdened, rebuilt 52 cents of every dollar is wasted on BS meetings and other dreamed up crap. The best fed dreamed up requirement, is the 6 month study of traffic and if their is a need, it doesn’t matter if the traffic is bumper to bumper 24/7 and it is a narrow 2 lane roadWhat bunch of fkups dreamed up this plan? It was the mother earth drug heads and of course every democrat deviant. Go trie and develop a design anything, and just see how damn much paper work and money will be peed away, that is unless you are a bundler or a huge donator to the Dumocrap Party, no scruples required, yhe more perverse the higher you go in the party heiarchy.

  • Randy

    Where were all you complainers when they started taxing the Trucking Industry this way. But oooohhhh when it affects you and your car you will get involved. The Trucking industry has been taxed to the point of poverty, but no one cares that it is a dieing industry for the drivers. But that is our fault because we have done nothing to stop it. With all the regulations, background checks, on-board recorders, paper work,that would make any competent secretary pull her hair out, plus all the driving around incompetent auto drivers too busy reading the news paper or texting or yacking on the phone, not to mention their blatant inability to drive period. And you people want the Trucking Industry to feel sorry for you, Get a grip on reality.
    This is just one more way for big brother to control the population, just like the assault weapons ban and all forms of gun control. But news flash for all those Obamites out there, gun control in its true form is hitting what you aim at. Gun control doesn’t work on criminals because they don’t do back ground checks they just check to see if the money is real. When will the WHOLE Population say enough big government is enough. We let them take this right from this group, and that right from that group because it doesn’t affect us, and when something does affect us we want the whole country to feel sorry for us. Well we all need to stand up to the Government and say That is just about enough out of you we want our country back. Stop turning a blind eye to every one else’s troubles until it affects you. These Politicians work for us not the other way around.

  • Terry Bateman

    California until the current Jerry Brown administration is an example of where
    America would go if borrow and spend and cut taxes remained public policy.
    California passed voter initiatives limiting taxes and prohibiting tax increases
    and look at where it got them: Crummy public schools, public transit, public
    social services, public works and road maintenance. Massive state and
    municipal debt and municipal bankruptcies. Along comes a democrat, Jerry
    Brown and now they may have a surplus the next fiscal year. Yes, he
    raised taxes. Now what did Arnold Governator raise when he was the
    governor of california?

    • Bob666

      A very good point,

      Ronald Regan raised some taxes as well.

    • http://yahoo.com BillT

      I don’t believe you’re from california. Gov Brown was responsible for ruing this state the first time around as gov. He’s doing the came this time. As for the voters and prop13, which is what you are talking about, without that proposition, there would be no other state that could even come close to the tax burden that california would have. California has taken in enough money, the politicians have squandered it on unions, pensions and benefits and all there little pet projects that only further regulate the state and cost the residents of this state more and more. Now, after elections, this is a one party state and the republicans can’t do a thing about any legislation that comes down. Of course, the republicans here aren’t any different than the democrats. They are all immoral, unethical crooks.

  • Terry Bateman

    Fifty cents a gallon gasoline tax is a reasonable price to pay for well maintained
    roads, bridges and necessary expansion of existing roads and highways. It
    will also encourage conservation of gasoline by discouraging unneccessary
    driving. If you want government to build and maintain a transportation
    infrastructure second to none and reap the massive economic benefits all
    citizens would receive from it, you need to provide government the necessary
    funds.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Terry Bateman,

      You write: “It will also encourage conservation of gasoline by discouraging unneccessary (sic) driving.” Please show me where in the Constitution is found it is government’s job to discourage driving. Please tell me who possesses the moral authority to determine what driving is unnecessary.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

    • Brad in TX!

      Hey Batman, what was that several hundred billion of TARP money for them shovel ready jobs about? That was to pay fornew infustructure!! huh, huih? where did tht money go??

      • Bob666

        Yo Brad,
        I can show anout $900 Million in the state of Florida and Texas got at least twice that much.

        • Brad in TX!

          Good deal and what state do you live in? 900 million between two very populated states. I imagine it is a trade off, I’m all for taken none and us giving none. Want to have that discussion? there was several hundred Billion for that program, not million.

          • Bob666

            Yo Brad,
            You asked where the money went and I can’t help it if you dont like the answer. For the record, I dont believe the stimulas money was well spent, but much of it did have a posititve impact on the economy.

            to bad our kids will be paying it back.

  • http://www.facebook.com/maryann.ludwig.940 Mary Ann Ludwig

    Californians already pay a per mile tax. Every time we get into our car and fill it up we pay a number of taxes. The better the mileage, the fewer the taxes, but we still pay them. We have some of the highest gasoline prices in the nation. But, guess what? We are an oil producing nation with huge reserves that are being prevented from being developed by the idiot in charge. We could completely eliminate imported/foreign oil if we developed these resources. But there is a great deal of resistance in making us independent and, instead, dependent on those imports. Gasoline could be extremely inexpensive, but how would those bloated bureaucracies in Washington pay their fat salaries without imposing unnecessary taxes on the public? Interstate highways my be the responsibility of the feds, but let the states pick up the slack on local roads. Then, dump the transportation department. Develop the resources that God gave us. It can be done without all the red tape and bureaucratic nightmares. Let’s make this country great again!

    • Bob666

      Yo Mary,
      let say that one of the big bridges in the Bay area gets hit by a big ship and damages one of the piers. If your state dumps the transportation department, who puts the repair out for bid and makes sure it gets repaired properly?

      Who would inspect those bridges to make sure they are structurally sound? who adds lanes to I-5 to increase capacity for your growing population?

      it’s easy to say, let’e get rid of government, but some times government serves a purpose.

      • http://pweiters9.wordpress.com pweiters9

        2/4/13, Right now…..weez bein’ robbed.

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