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The Supercommittee Farce

November 22, 2011 by  

The Supercommittee Farce

The past couple of months, I’ve taken to biting my nails again, something I haven’t done since I was a teenager. In fact, the media have me on the verge of a nervous breakdown with their coverage of the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction (aka the supercommittee).

I can’t tell you how stressed I’ve been thinking about the gut-wrenching task these hardworking, upstanding men and women have been facing. The thought of them having to find a way to cut spending by $1.2 trillion by Nov. 23 or face automatic, across-the-board spending cuts has caused my anxiety level to go through the roof.

I’ve tried to console myself by recalling that John Maynard Keynes assured us that, in the long run, we’re all dead anyway. But I still find myself hyperventilating, breaking out in cold sweats and having to fight off deficit headaches.

Buddha, who was a cut above Keynes when it came to wisdom, said that all unhappiness is caused by attachment. Reflecting on his words, I’ve come to the conclusion that this is the essence of my problem. I simply became too attached to the supercommittee crisis, and the thought that those admirable public servants might fail has been more than I can bear.

Now that judgment day is upon us, the anticipation has become so nerve-racking that I find myself… hmm… well, to tell you the truth, I find myself yawning a lot. Sort of like watching an old movie that I’ve seen many times before — a movie that I didn’t much care for the first time I saw it.

OK, enough. Let’s get real here. Only the play-along-to-get-along media could hype a business-as-usual non-event like the supercommittee’s thumb-sucking task into sounding like the Cuban missile crisis — or at least the lead-up to the Super Bowl.

Does anyone really take this stuff seriously? Sadly, yes. In fact, I have it on good authority that millions of political junkies can get aroused over the most mundane news coming out of the Capitol Building or the White House. And according to the ads I’ve seen on TV, all of them would be wise to consult their doctors.

Sorry, but the truth is that the media’s hand-wringing over the supercommittee’s deficit-reduction work is nothing more than a monumental farce. By getting the public to focus on the choice of cutting $1.2 trillion from the budget over 10 years or triggering automatic spending cuts of $1.2 trillion, Congress is once again able to distract from what really needs to be done

And by “really needs to be done,” I mean cutting a minimum of $1.5 trillion from the budget next year. Why $1.5 trillion? Because that’s what it would take to balance the current budget, which is already 10 times greater than it should be.

It’s all part of the same old Washington game, and the rules of the game are very simple: Democrats never agree to any serious spending cuts, and Republicans always give in (while pretending to be victorious, of course).

In other words, from the Democrats’ point of view, it’s: “Heads, I win; tails, you lose.” And from the Republicans’ point of view, it’s: “Just let us continue to eat in the Congressional dining room, work out in the Congressional gym and have access to insider stock-trading information, and we’ll go along with just about anything you ask of us.”

It never really mattered whether the so-called “spending cuts” came from the supercommittee or as a result of “automatic, across-the-board spending cuts.” Either way, the budget, the deficit and the national debt were guaranteed to continue to rise — and at an accelerating rate, at that.

What does this mean in terms of next November’s elections? Well, if the Republicans run a progressive candidate like Mitt Romney, once again allowing themselves to be intimidated by the Democrats’ constant admonishments that “voters want Democrats and Republicans to come together,” then they will have learned nothing from their Mush McCain mistake in 2008.

It’s scary to think about, but even Ann Coulter has fallen into the ageless trap of believing that conservatives should once again set aside their principles and nominate a candidate who can win. Not only is such a position unprincipled, it also yields either a losing Presidential race or a Republican President who does nothing more than carry the water bucket for Democrats. (Think George W. Bush.)

Perhaps the biggest tip-off that Romney has Democrats licking their chops at the thought of his winning the Republican nomination is that their liberal media cheerleaders keep insisting he is the candidate Democrats fear most. That’s a dead giveaway for just how badly they want him to be the Republican nominee. Trust me, the thought of running nonstop ads that feature Barack Obama thanking Romney for creating the model for Obamacare has them both salivating and cackling.

Of course, if voters bypass Romney and flee into the arms of Newt Gingrich, Democrats would also have a ball with some of Gingrich’s more infamous positions — supporting the Troubled Asset Relief Program, global-warming couch sessions with Nancy Pelosi, favoring an individual mandate for healthcare, and, worst of all, referring to Paul Ryan’s serious budget-cutting plan as “extreme right-wing social engineering.”

The important question of the day is not whether the supercommittee will “compromise” and work out a spending-cut plan or take the easy way out and allow automatic spending cuts to be triggered. Either way, you can be sure there will be no significant cutbacks in government spending.

A far more important question is: Will conservatives be smart enough and tough enough to understand that promising to cut the size and scope of government and put an end to the criminality in Washington is what got them elected to Congress in 2010?

Or will they misread the political climate once again and run scared — right into the arms of their socialist pals across the aisle — and hand the only Marxist President in American history a default victory that will give him the time he needs to finish the job of destroying what is left of the U.S. economy?

Robert Ringer

Special To Personal Liberty

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  • s c

    This committee, like most committees, is faced with two options. They can 1) keep playing games and refuse to own up to their roles in this mess (it’s the ECONOMY, stupid) and 2) use the Constitution and what little common sense they ever had to find and use real ANSWERS.
    Everything else is fluff and posturing. The American people should feel more than insulted, as our political wizards are still looking for ways to weasel out of THEIR responsibility in bringing America almost to its knees via an utter LACK of leadership in Washington.
    And the icing on the cake, the scum at the top of the septic tank, the nose-plugging stench brought by ‘God’s’ gift to politics [what's-his-name in the White House], and we have an absolute recipe for disaster. Say what you will about The Anointed Curse, he can shift the blame to any point on the compass according to an old, proven formula perfected by FDR (‘we must find the culprit at any cost, but it can’t be ME because I’m perfect’).
    Some draftees from a coffee shop and several grade school kids can come up with better answers than the so-called Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction.
    Kindly forget the finger pointing. We can do this the easier way or we can rely on bluffs borrowed from race card specialists and a truly warped version of ‘good intentions are better than results.’ To hell with bruised egos and your addiction to undeserved power, DO THE JOB and restore SANITY to Washington WHILE IT CAN BE DONE.
    DO YOUR JOB, you ‘elite,’ hand-picked, mental giants who couldn’t buy common sense at a dime store buffoons. What is it that you LOSERS get paid for back there? Tap some REAL experts from out here in the REAL world. We can still add two and two, and that’s what it takes to do YOUR job – LOSERS.

    • Patrick Fahey

      After reading each and every comment above, one thing is clear: not one sentence was devoted to analyzing anything. The above writers would make better use of their time by reading some history–the history of The New Deal, the history of the political debates in the later 1920′s and 1930′s. Some of you would be embarrassed at the shallowness of your debate, vilifying in precisely the same manner that GOP conservatives, Big Oil and Banking “experts” did in the 1930′s. None of your “ideas” are new. One thing we can ALL agree upon: the nature of Washington as a mega-buck financed machine that needs an overhaul systematically is true. Analytically, publically financed elections would serve ALL of us. We share the view that Obama has not been a strong president. Had he listened to the Progressive Caucus and pushed for a single payer health care system and gotten us out of laissez-faire market-driven health care, we would all have benefited. Their is NO solution to electing a Republican, nor following the laissez-faire philosophy of a non-regulated private sector. Banks and Big Oil have proved that they cannot be trusted by the 99% of us. It’s just the nature of the beast to be greedy when nobody’s keeping a regulatory eye out on behalf of the little people like us–which includes each and every citizen above. THAT was the purpose of Glass-Steagal, FHA, child labor laws and the Clean Water Act. Why are more writer on this blog not calling for a return to Glass-Steagal, a law designed to protect us from Wall Street? Because most of the writers on the right don’t know what Glass-Steagal is, nor are most Americans schooled in the history that brought this law about–whether left, right or moderate. Sadly, it was Bill Clinton falling to the pressure of self-serving lobbyist Newt Gingrich to repeal this law which resulted in the economic collapse of 2009. These are the facts on the ground, and no mindless, historyless meandering can change the facts. I hope the writers on this blog will spend less time slavically agreeing with each other and do more homework. Thank you for your time.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        Patrick Fahey

        Thank you,Well said.

        • clarence swinney

          Clinton to Bush to Obama
          Who Dug the Deep Hole? Who Fumbled the ball?
          Numbers rounded

          Clinton left Bush an 1800B Budget
          Bush Left Obama a 3500 Budget

          Clinton left Bush a 240B Surplus as far as the eye can see
          Bush left Obama a 1400B Deficit as far as the eye can see

          Clinton left Bush 5,700B of Debt
          Bush left Obama 11,800B of Debt

          Clinton left Bush a 237,000 net new jobs created per month
          Bush left Obama a 31,000 lowest number since Hoover.

          Clinton left Bush 17 Million Manufacturing Jobs
          Bush left Obama 11 Million Manufacturing Jobs

          Clinton left Bush a 10,800 Dow
          Bush left Obama an 8028 Dow

          Clinton left Bush Peace on Earth Good Will From Most Men
          Bush left Obama Hell on Earth Two disastrous wars. Enmity of 1500 Million Muslims

          Clinton left Bush a President most highly rated of any peacetime President in Asia, Africa, Europe.
          Bush left Obama the most hated President in history
          Bush left Obama an Housing Tsunami and Financial Volcano
          Bush left Obama, in 2008, an 8500B Bail out commitment Yes! 8500 not just 700
          Bush left Obama his Takeover of Fannie/Freddie, AIG, and first bailout of Chrysler
          Bush increased maximum loan by Fannie/Freddie from $300,000 to $729,000
          Bush increased FDIC maximum deposit coverage from $100,000 to $250,000
           clarence swinney–political historian–lifeaholics of america burlington nc
          author-Lifeaholic–Life story of Workaholic failure to Lifeaholic success
          Best seller list in haw river nc population 200 and growing
          comments welcome at cswinney2@triad.rr.com facts -numbers not opinion

          • alex

            the only way clinton left a surplus was to disarm the us,then pissed off the muslims so they attacked us as soon as the new president was elected, it took bush six years to get the stock market to 14000 and in two years polosi and reid droped it to 7000

          • Seek Wisdom

            alex: post facts,not anti-american dribble.

          • Capitalist at Birth

            You are distorting the truth. Are you a Totalitarian Socialist? Clinton never once balanced the budget. Congress came close. As far as Bush goes, he is a Rockefeller Republican (RINO.) Only slightly less dangerous than Gore or Mr. Heinz. McCain is also a RINO, only slightly less dangerous than Obama.

          • 45caliber

            Seek Wisdom:

            alex did leave facts – better ones that sweeney copied from his liberal friends.

          • JeffH

            Just a reminder and a fact…Clinton never balanced the budget!

            The government can have a surplus even if it has trillions in debt, but it cannot have a surplus if that debt increased every year. This article is about surplus/deficit, not the debt. However, it analyzes the debt to prove there wasn’t a surplus under Clinton.
            http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

          • JeffH

            For those that want a more detailed explanation of why a claimed $236 billion surplus resulted in the national debt increasing by $18 billion, please read this follow-up article.
            http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/30

          • joe1cr

            Facts are facts, but left out what Obama is leaving the American tax payer with his incompetent leadership since Jan 20,2009 .

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Jeffh,

            Clinton’ssurplus? What was Reagan’s excuse?

            Jul 2, 2010 … Ronald Reagan and who was conservative enough to be elected to … billion over five years — the largest corporate tax increase in history. … As governor, Reagan was the biggest California spender of the last half century. …
            http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/07/02/reagan-raised-taxes-7-times/

          • JeffH

            …coal…and what’s your point?

          • JC

            INTERESTING OBSERVATION

            1. The sport of choice for the urban poor is BASKETBALL.
            2. The sport of choice for maintenance level employees is BOWLING.
            3. The sport of choice for front-line workers is FOOTBALL.
            4. The sport of choice for supervisors is BASEBALL.
            5. The sport of choice for middle management is TENNIS. And
            6. The sport of choice for corporate executives and officers is GOLF.

            THE AMAZING CONCLUSION:

            The higher you go in the corporate structure, the smaller your
            balls become.

            There must be a lot of people in DC playing MARBLES!

          • Aix Sponsa

            David Walker former head of the GAO said that the Clinton Administration was a financial hoax. Watch his videos on you-tube.

          • Joe H.

            JC,
            Nah, In DC, the favorite sport is shooting b-bs with a slingshot!!!

          • barb

            Bush ended his administration with a total of 30 predatory drone strikes during the 8 years he was in the White House. Obama has increased the number of predatory drone strikes to over 700 in the 3 years of his administration. With the increase of predatory drones comes the increase of civilian deaths…over 3,000 civilian deaths alone in Pakistan. During the Bush administration predatory drones were used in Afghanistan and Iraq. During the present Obama administration, drones are used in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somali.

      • alex

        what i truly hope is that democraps are just being sly, not stupid like they sound

        • jyrine

          You left out EVIL.

        • AnneOnymous

          Their only stupid as they sound because Republicant’s keep putting words in their mouths and:

          “It’s all part of the same old Washington game, and the rules of the game are very simple: Democrats never agree to any serious spending cuts, and Republicans always give in (while pretending to be victorious, of course).”

          Republicants give in because there’s such things as riders that are secretly applied to those compromises making the over-all progress useless with breaks for the elite thus the entire bill must be scraped giving the impression that the demos are truly stupid.

      • Thinking About

        The reveal of Glass-Stegall lead by economist Phil Gramm was the opening of a waterfall we could not afford. He said many times if we would just deregulate them everything will be just fine. Wrong, it has broke everything. A fine example of an industry doing self regulation, they won’t do it. Make government smaller, industries without rules runs amok. For all the Constitution believers who wants the Constitution followed except for the parts they want to do away with, can’t have it your way when convient, it has to be all the time.

        • Old Henry

          Which parts, Thinking About, do the Constitutionalists want to do away with?

          I have not seen nor heard of any.

          • JeffH

            OH, he wasn’t thinking about that! :)

          • Thinking about

            Perhaps you have not heard about wanting to exclude, remove or ignore the 1st, 15th and 16th Amendments but the rumblings are there. If these amendments are watered down you can expect more of the same with all the others. We don’t get to pick and choose.

          • JeffH

            Oh yeah, I’ve heard those rumbling too…but that’s all they are, rumblings…right? Our government violates the constitution every day in one form or another.

            As for the 16th Amendement…The Founders who designed our Constitution sought to balance the power of the federal government against the states in order to keep both in check. It is time to repeal the 16th Amendment, the constitutional provision that authorizes the federal income tax. As its critics predicted when the amendment was passed in 1913, the income tax has become “a terror and torment to the honest citizen.” It is absurdly complicated, inefficient and intrusive. Overzealous bureaucrats and politicians frequently abuse it.

            The income tax has another major fault too. It undermines the Constitution’s arrangements for limiting government. The Internal Revenue Service simply has no proper place in our constitutional system.

            Although the first income tax in 1913 was very limited–it applied to just 2% of the labor force, and its highest rate was 7%–it prepared the way for the federal government’s almost unlimited access to revenue. It thus provided an almost unlimited ability to fund programs that are properly state matters–crime fighting, education, welfare–and to pressure the states into conforming to a national standard in matters that should reflect regional differentiation, like speed limits and drinking ages.
            http://newteaparty.org/repeal_the_sixteenth_amendme.htm

          • Vicki

            Old Henry writes to Thinking About:
            “Which parts (of the Constitution) do the Constitutionalists want to do away with?

            I have not seen nor heard of any.”

            From Constitutionalists you won’t. Thinking About, being liberal, was just projecting typical liberal desire to ignore the Constitution.
            http://thetruthwins.com/archives/category/corruption

          • JeffH

            Vicki :)

        • karel Eekels

          Right on Thinking About.

      • Old Henry

        Patrick:

        Glass-Steagal has been discussed here in the past.

        When I was in school in the 50s / 60s FDR was held up as some sort of god that saved our country. Fortuntely I had parents and grandparents who taught me otherwise. FDR was basically evil and a communist. Ah, but I repeat myself.

        • Brian

          Right on OH!

        • Aix Sponsa

          AMEN and AMEN

      • http://charter howe

        Patrick, you would make a better argument for why we need an overhaul in the Congress and the Whitehouse because these political imposters who are supposed to be representing WE THE PEOPLE are not doing their job. Screw history, lets deal with the now situation and that is we are at or on the threshold of bankruptcy and every time you turn around someone in Washington wants to create a new spending bill or argue about tax on the rich and the oil companies. Does anyone give a crap about doing what it takes to allow America to survive and not the party. The democrats do not want to cut spending and the Republicans do not want to vote for taxes on anyone during a recession so why is anyone surprised that the super committee would not be able to get past the ideology. While lots of taxes on everybody would bring more revenue it would not even come close to fixing the debt/deficit. On the other hand cutting entitlements which is where the only significant debt recuction can be made has the democrats fleeing from the scene of the truth. Obama is the biggest problem of all, because we have a crisis that cannot be solved without his leadership. Obama would rather denigrate, cast ugly dispersions and create devisiveness rather than sit down with the House and Senate and stump for reasonable compromise. Obama’s idea of compromise is it is going to be my way or the highway and if you don’t do as I say, I will bad mouth you to the world and further more don’t annoy me while I’m enjoying my daily pick-up basketball game except when I have a reservation on the golf course. Harry Reid in the Senate is Obama’s home boy and servant of the political realm so while Reid has been holding 22 house passed bills for job creation on his desk waiting for Obama to signal when to allow them on the floor so Obama can finish his campaign tour of North Carolina and three other states so he can blast the republicans for doing nothing to help the job situation and even threatening to take executive action to circumvent Congress. Is this president trying to win a nobel peace prize for being a deceiver-in-chief or does he want to stay an ordinary liar-in-chief with a backup plan to disguise his socialistic agenda. I keep hearingg talk about tax reform that would be good for the economy because it would not raise tax on anyone just to glean revenue. It would create a fairer system of taxation and close most loop holes so that more revenue can get to the U.S. Tresuary. There are hundreds of useless programs in the public and private sector that do nothing to promote the free market system and also cutting defense more than 10% would be disasterous considering all the threats we are faced with from third world countries. Mr. Chris Van Hollen and Patty Murray are two absolute socialist democratic ideologues and they would not cut spending even if it meant the demise of our great nation, so the Democrats put people on the supercommittee who were known to fail the objective. The Republicans came into the meeting with only tax reform on the table and it was known beforehand that raising taxes would only be done with huge legitimate cuts or the deal was off the table. The result was doomed from the outset, so I blame Harry Reid and Obama for this dilemma.

        • http://detlef55@qwestoffice.net Detlef Naase

          Great post, I had to dig out my old Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich one line struck me recalling the history of the Weimar republic. Your line that Obama would “TAKE EXECUTIVE ACTION TO CIRCUMVENT CONGRESS” You nailed it.
          Read this on Pg. 151 of R & F, “No wonder that when Bruening took over as Chancellor on March 28,1930 it had become impossible to achieve a majority in the Reichstag for any policy-of the Left, the Center or the Right- and that merely to carry on the business of government and DO SOMETHING about the economic paralysis he had to resort to Article 48 of the constitution, which permitted him in an emergency, if the President approved, to govern by decree”. We know where that ended up. I think he read the book, it is amazing how he stands aside provides no leadership than points his finger at the do nothing Congress. Yes he will take “EXECUTIVE ACTION” the equivalant to article 48, Crises after Crises will grow and so will his authoratarian power.

        • Aix Sponsa

          does anybody actually read all this schtuff?

          • PATRIOT 101

            Yes, I read a lot of this schtuff!

            I posted here (somewhere) that Obama will ratchet up his governance by decree (EO’s) going around Congress and the media will hail his “bold leadership” all the way to total dictatorship!
            Not much can stop him (I fear at this point). We’ll see if there is an election, we may avoid the worst case scenario.

          • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

            not only do I read this stuff I bounce back and forth to read other articals on this sight, and come back for days to answer posts to things i’ve said.

        • karel Eekels

          I believe that it would not hurt for our “elite” members of Congress to take an honest and painful look at the past to learn more about the Austrian school of economics.

          Monetary policy vs. Fiscal policy & The creation of an artificial economy.

          These closet Keynesians were raised (as is the case with the current WH occupant) were raised on the mother’s milk of socialism that believe in monetary policy over which the Federal Reserve rules. (Fiscal policy is a domain of the US Congress).

          The Federal Reserve has lost its independence and is now tied to the political powers that today is doing the dirty work for the sitting president to get him re-elected by stimulating the economy by holding on to a generous welfare system, extending unemployment compensation, food stamps, free education and insurances, etc. They are oblivious to deficit spending and are debasing our currency. This alone allowed the United States of America to become the biggest counterfeit machine in the world. Bringing freshly printed (phantom) money into circulation and buying insurance against deflation to prevent a recession to continue is suicidal Maynard Keynes. Your great admirer/supporter Paul Krugman believes that your approach will contribute to a temporary political solution, but is far from a responsible fiscal one which explains why the long-term budget outlook remains very somber and definitely does not solve the problem we so badly need to come to terms with today.

          Fiscal responsible policies on the other hand have no tolerance for an enormous expansive project of government which transferred trillions of dollars from the productive sector to the non-productive and so enables the creation of a huge class of dependency in the US.

          The majority of “We the People” demand from the US Congress to put the fiscal house in order, and should not require another Super Committee.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        You are sadly mistaken. Clinton submitted the idea to Congress which, mistakenly revoked the Glass-Steagal Act. I for one have been writing and talking about this being the main cause of our economic problems today since 1999. You evidently never read my posts here. As far as celebrating FDR, I can not disagree more.

        • Thinking about

          Check your history on this one and see what bill repealed the Glass-Stegall bill, you will find Gramm’s name on the bill. Clinton did not introduce bills, he signed or vetoed bills.

          • Brad

            Thinking about,

            Quoting from Huffpo “Only eight senators would vote against the measure — lionized by its proponents, including senior staff in the Clinton administration and many now staffing President Obama, as the most important breakthrough in the worlds of finance and politics in decades”. Here is the link http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/11/glass-steagall-act-the-se_n_201557.html Clinton sided with the new law that repealed Glass-Steagall my next question would be why didn’t he (Clinton) veto the bill?

          • Thinking about

            Now this is going to be an easy one to answer, Clinton did not introduce the bill, Phil Gramm stated several times if they would just deregulate the banks and finanicals everything would be alright. Just goes to prove industries fail to regulate themselves and left without controls run amok. Now as to why Clinton did not veto the bill, you said there was only 8 votes against it and that adds up to more than the 2/3 majority required to override a veto.

          • karel Eekels

            And not to forget to mention Robert Rubin, Secretary of the Treasury, under BJ’ presidency (also a Goldman Sachs pupil), who played a major role here and yes, who also happened to be in the board of Enron!It does not get better!!

      • BH

        I agree with you about Glass-Steagal. It is reasonable to have that kind of high-level restrictions.

        History shows that FDR did NOT lead us out of the depression. His efforts to help actually prolonged the agony. It is the same thing we are doing now — saving bankrupt institutions from going out of business. The GOP arguments against the obviously unconstitutional federal programs of FDR were proven valid.

        “We share the view that Obama has not been a strong president. Had he listened to the Progressive Caucus and pushed for a single payer health care system and gotten us out of laissez-faire market-driven health care, we would all have benefited.”

        We haven’t had a free market in health care for decades. Increasing percentages of the people are under Medicare and Medicaid, and federal and state requirements that insurance must cover this or that (for example, mental health and pregnancy) and cannot cover the other thing has made it less and less free market. Note that the government health care programs increase in cost at greater rates than the private ones. Benefited? In countries with single-payer health care, medical care is, of necessity, rationed. Many die waiting for care.

        The FHA, and the various follow-on organizations and programs to encourage home ownership, have brought us the current housing crisis. The government creates a bubble. Of necessity, all bubbles burst.

        Child labor laws prevent kids from learning about work. That, and the minimum wage. Such restrictions belong on a state level, so that the impacts of different approaches becomes apparent and states will slowly move toward what actually works.

        The Clean Water Act? The problem with water in this country is that it is owned by everyone, and thus no one (an example of “Tragedy of the Commons”). Since the government effectively owns rivers, it is reasonable for it to enforce standards. But more effective than allowing a bureaucracy to decide when to enforce what standards is to allow those downstream to take civil action against those up stream. Fortunately, this was also implemented, and thus America’s waters have improved vastly.

        I agree that Newt Gingrich is simply a power hungry politician.

        I agree that banks cannot be trusted. But a banking system that is empowered to create currency as desired it not a part of capitalism; free market principles lead to hard money, not fiat currency. A banking system with fiat currency is a progressive/liberal policy, not a conservative one. It is actually one of the planks of the Communist Manifesto.

      • patrick H.T. paine

        ” To conquer, first DIVIDE! ”

        Another day in BABEL, distracting from the REALITY. This was left yesterday for Mr. Livingston, but Mr. Ringer is free to respond….

        “In the period between 1982 and 2002, US steel production grew from
        75 million tons to 102 million tons, while the number of steel workers
        declined from 289,000 to 74,000.

        In 2010. manufacturing workers in the united states were producing
        38 percent more output per hour than in 2000. While output has remained fairly stable, employment has declined by more than 32%.”

        These FACTS would seem to suggest that the actual PROBLEM has not been determined…….but maybe you can help clear this up for the rest of us?

        The mantra we are hearing from the “conventional wisdom” crowd is
        “growth”…..but the numbers above are not unique and pretty much apply across the board on anything that can be remotely considered as
        productive. If the survivors of the lastest bubble have learned ANYTHING, it is that they are on their own. The cycle of debt fueling
        mindless consumption is OVER, and it’s not coming back anytime soon.

        The reason for this is that the “bubble” hasn’t really deflated and will not be, until the “imaginary wealth” created by it, is returned from whence it came. Unfortunately, for the housing market, this not only includes the first time “homebuyers” that got sucked into this,
        but all other’s who used the opportunity of rising equity VALUE as a
        “credit card”, and are now faced with paying a mortgage, if they are fortunate enough to be able to, for something that will never be worth
        anything near what the payout is. Much of the rest of these TOXIC ASSETS have been sequestered by the GSE’s and the FED, but the foreclosure process will eventually force this re-evaluation to take place, despite the attempts to delay or disguise this REALITY.

        The effects of this imaginary wealth creation is not restricted to the housing markets, but everything else as well, so the equity markets will also have to give back these gains…..

        Even after this takes place, the problem of growth is still present
        both in the form of the first two examples with which this piece began, and another aspect of our economy whose REALITY is going to
        become more obvious as we proceed. What constitutes actual PRODUCTIVITY that is beneficial to our country?

        On the surface, certain sectors appear both prosperous and promising.

        Government looks to be a growth industry, clearly nice work if you can get it, unfortunately there is no productivity involved and since
        they are largely incompetant and clearly overpaid, what is now considered essential will change. Clearly useless is the Military
        Industrial Complex, which no longer has a legitimate function…we have no enemies, we are not going to be invaded, and if recent history has taught us anything, occupation is expensive and doomed to failure. As for threats by rising economies, like India or China,
        this is illusionary…..at best, this burst of productivity has benefited at best one third of their respective populations, which means that they have and will have serious internal problems as far as the eye can see. As for the middle east, that is a basket case which is self resolving and irrelevant. Israel can fend for itself
        quite nicely, and Islam needs to undergo it’s own reformation…which
        our presence and policy is PREVENTING.

        The health care industry, which includes everything involved with it,
        including big pharma, insurance companies and hospitals doctors and
        nurses, etc. looks poised for a surge……and is another illusion.
        This “industry” is now and has been for some time the leading cause of
        death in the united States. Cutbacks for those who depend on government access as well as the economic reality will deflate this sector….and people will seek alternatives, as many are already.
        Eventually the TRUTH that the basis for western medicine, Germ Theory
        is no longer valid ( if it ever was ) will take hold.

        Then we have “education”…….whose value in the united States is as
        imaginary as the recent wealth creation…….it’s structure reflects
        the mirror image of the hierarchical economy is was designed to serve
        and since it is this economy which is on the verge of collapse, the system of education supporting it, will follow in turn.

        If you think unemployment is a problem NOW, wait until people start
        evaluating those who still have jobs based on “positive or beneficial contribution” to society in general…….

        “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls……….”

    • Old Henry

      “[what's-his-name in the White House]”

      Yes s c, what IS his name? Millions of us would like to know at least that much about that floating scum…

    • Aix Sponsa

      We should never underestimate the ignorance of the American voter. Bob Livingston

  • LYGHTITUP

    Well said sc but, you were too kind.

  • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

    I beleive the super-committe was established to do 2 things, move the decisions away from congress so they didn’t have to do their jobs and fsil from the beginning. I am so tired of the repbs. bowing down to the dems and doing nothing. when will someone show some backbone and get serious about some real cuts that will actually do something to reduce the spending and set us on a path to recovery?We need to cut spending now in a drastic way, not a 5 or 10 year plan that just drags this problem out and acomplishes nothing.I want a congress that is working to move this country ahead in a positive way, vote all incombants out and lets start over with new representation, it couldn’t be any worse than what we have now.

    • standfortheworker

      We MUST CUT SPENDING – ACROSS THE BOARD. NO EXCEPTIONS.
      Start with a 5 PERCENT CUT IN EVERY GOVERNMENTAL BUDGET and tell the affected programs, committees, beauracracies, ETC. – “Make do, and this is only for STARTS! NEXT YEAR YOU ARE GOING TO BE CUT ANOTHER 5 PERCENT!!”.

      CUT USELESS WASTES OF MONEY TO “AMTRAK, The Dept of (un)Education, (or rather The Dept. of Liberal Idoctrination).

      Trim down the very inefficient Post Office some more.

      Cut the EPA’s budget in half, because they have gone way beyond the bounds of reason. (Ex: Volunteer firefighters got surrounded by and were killed in recent wildfires because EPA REGULATIONS prevented helicopters from saving the volunteers. They were instructed to go much further to get their “drop water” because if they took it from the local stream they would endanger a FISH.) OVER regulation of Industry and commercial endeavors have stifled job production – and the economy.

      Bring in the flat tax – 8 or 10 percent across the board – AND NO MORE ! EVERYONE PAYS. Everyone has SKIN IN THE GAME !!!!
      By doing this you can ELIMINATE THE CONVOLUTED IRS AND IT’S TAX CODE.
      YOU NO LONGER NEED CPA’s AND TAX EXPERTS AND LAWYERS – JUST TO PAY YOUR TAXES !!

      The individual citizens have to make do with what they have – It’s time for Government TO LIVE WITHIN IT’S MEANS.

      WELFARE gets BIG CUTS. ONLY those who can show they are incapable of working and contributing to society are eligible for help. If you are not eligible – you will have a relatively SHORT TIME – perhaps 18 months to get a job. After that – NO MORE LAZY ASS FREE RIDES. EVERYONE HAS GOD-GIVEN GIFTS AND TALENTS – SO GUESS WHAT ?? YOU’RE GOING TO FIND OUT WHAT YOURS ARE !!! Novel idea huh ??

      Folks if we don’t buckle down and do something DRASTIC and SOON – THERE LITERALLY WILL NOT BE A SYSTEM OF WELFARE or ANYTHING ELSE. It is all in the process of IMPLODING. THE SOCIETY AS WE KNOW IT WILL NO LONGER EXIST. We are heading for a DEEP DEPRESSION.

      Brain-washed liberals who want to increase taxes and continue to increase government programs haven’t a clue !
      The whole thing is falling down around them and all they can do is cry for more of the same. REDISTRIBUTIONISM EVENTUALLY LOSES – BECAUSE ONCE YOU’VE RUN THE WORKING CLASS (AND THE JOBS) OUT OF THE COUNTRY – YOU WILL FIND THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO TAKE – BUT YOU WILL STILL HAVE MILLIONS WHO ARE READY TO BURN THE CITIES TO THE GROUND IF THEY DON’T GET THEIR GOVERNMENT CHECK.

      What was that saying about giving a man a fish or a fishing pole ??

      • Old Henry

        5%?? Surely you jest! A minimum of 25% is barely a good start.

  • Dntmkmecmoverther

    This consistent ‘compromise by losing’ strategy is just plain insubordinate to the American people. 12 were assigned to do the work of the 435…does that make ANY sense to ANYONE?

    I say FIRE THE WHOLE LOT and let’s put new faces and minds in the congress with an ultimatum: get us back to Constitutional reality and cut the ‘crap’ from all the budgets. You have 1 year to accomplish this. If they can’t, fire them and pay them only the minimum wage; no benefits, no retirement (just like us)

    This is the only way to see our government actually transform; or reform, to what it once was. What it is now is not government but stupidity on steroids; and irresponsibility on parade.

    • Lost in Paradise

      Ok, you get started tomorrow. You have six months to get done or you are fired!

  • Angel Wannabe

    This “Super Committee” is another Dog and Pony Show, alot of wind, and the blame game!__Just for the record, I’m glad Washington doesn’t sell tickets for these shows they put on, they suck, and we can’t afford them!

    • Aix Sponsa

      DC is all a shell game. Keeping the publiks attention off the real issues so that they can manipulate the system and stay “employed”. Think about it.

  • http://google Jo Tracy

    WAY TOO KIND!!!!!!!

  • http://Personalliberty Tony

    To Everyone here:
    This shows both parties and goverment stinks. Have them replaced.
    Thanks and happy Thanksgiving!!

    • Aix Sponsa

      “We should never underestimate the ignorance of the American voter”. Bob Livingston

  • MarieSmedberg

    Ya hadda know the moment they came up with the name “Super Committee” that NOTHING would come of it. How stupid does the Congress & President think we are?

    • martin

      I think they know how stupid the American people. They got voted into office by stupid people.

      • Aix Sponsa

        and its gonna happen again, hide and watch.

  • Thom

    This morning I was forced to reflect on the “super committees” inability to reach an agreement and found that I was not at all surprised, as a matter of fact, I had predicted this outcome when they were formed and had a historical basis to make the prediction.
    The democrats had 2 years where they had a supermajority in both houses of congress. Did they manage to pass a budget in either of those 2 years? Nope. Obama hasn’t gotten himself involved in the actual business of governing the country since he has been President. He left the actual mechanics in the hands of Reid and Pelosi, but He hasn’t actually been a “hands on” we have a problem and we need to solve it guy. He’s good at making speeches to tell others how to solve THEIR deficit reduction problems in Europe, but he isn’t the President of Europe.
    As to the Super committee, you take 6 hard left democrats and 6 moderate to right wing republicans and tell them that if they fail, the thing that the lefties want most MAJOR cuts in defense will happen, do they lose if nothing happens? Nope. There will also be smaller cuts in Medicare and Medicade, but those are mandated by Obamacare anyway, so the lefties win under any scenario.
    Senator Mikulski was VERY clear in her address to the left wingers that she would not accept ANY cut in entitlements; that the whole thing would have to be funded with tax increases. So, the republicans put forward two proposals, one had no tax increases, and it was shot down, the other had some significant tax hikes, but also called for entitlement cuts. Both were shot down by the democrats on the panel.
    So my question is when the compromise is put forth and is rejected, why are the republicans held responsible. When are the democrats going to forward ANY budget proposal? They haven’t in the last 3 years and I don’t think they will start now. They just want to blame someone. Why do I feel like I am reading another chapter of Atlas Shrugged?
    Who IS John Galt?

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Thom… Good post. We need term limits for Congress. I think this mess wouldn’t be as bad as it is if we had term limits. It would end that good ole boy mentality that is so prevalent!

      • Seek Wisdom

        As far as I know,we have always had term limits.It is called ‘elections’. The only thing specific mandated term limits do is deprive Americans from electing the candidate of their collective choice. That sounds un-American.

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          You better continue on your quest to ‘seek wisdom’.

          • Seek Wisdom

            Seeking wisdom is a lifelong pursuit that has,so far,resulted in my previous post…you are welcome.

          • Greg T

            Presidential term limits works well…

        • JC

          SW, its a good theory, and it’s supposed to work…
          but I think most of us can see by now that it doesn’t work.
          I think term limits are a good start on the road back to being a Republic.
          We need to end the Fed and abolish the IRS.
          both of which are a disease on our nation and both of which do very well having life long Senators and Congressmen in their pockets.

      • PATRIOT 101

        Term Limits won’t work! We need an informed electorate! There are good people in congress that have been there a long time; there are worthless communists that are there too.
        Sadly if people don’t wake up and pay attention our nation is a goner.
        Another thing I think won’t work is a balanced budget amendment! Spending can’t be cut, so taxes would have to be raised to comply with a balanced budget amendment! There would be property confiscations to balance the budget, as no amount of increased taxes would cover our deficit spending!

        • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

          I am very much inclined to agree with you on these points, I’ve heard these arguments before and with the calibre of reps, we have don’t find it hard to beleive.

    • clarence swinney

      SUPERMAJORITY????
      HOW DID THEY GET 120 BILS TRASH BASKETED

  • Henry Ledbetter

    When the drill instructors at Parris Island wanted to really get our attention, they would refer to some as GUTLESS WONDERS. It was amazing the difference that could be made in eleven weeks.

  • BobDin

    I knew the Super Committee was a joke from the start. Half of the committee was hell bent on raising taxes and resistant to making the needed spending cuts. These 6 were ultra liberal with no intentions of doing any real spending cuts. The other half were of the exact opposite. I knew this combination was doomed to fail

    • Ted Crawford

      That was clear from the start.We need only remember that their (Leader?) Nancy Pelosi warned them from the beginning not to make any consessions on entitlement spending! If they woun’t do that there was no point in even beginning! That is except for the one their got, Obamas ability to continue his disingeniouse arguement that the Republicans woun’t compromise!

      • Seek Wisdom

        …and the republicans went in refusing to compromise on taxes. So either the low-income and the retired folks are sacrificed, or tax cuts are sacrificed. As for me,I will follow the Lord’s words.

        • Capitalist at Birth

          Does your Lord emphasize the Ten Commandments? If he does, do you remember the 8th and 10th? If you are not aware, they are: Thou Shalt Not Steal; Thou Shalt Not Covet.

          • Seek Wisdom

            My Lord is THE Lord. I am happy to see you know the Commandments. We should live by them.

          • Iva Raggon

            The ultra rich covet more than anyone else or they wouldn’t be ultra rich.

            There is a small group of elite CEOs who all sit on each others’ corporations compensation committees/ Of course they vote for massive compensation because they know that their turn is coming up and they will get theirs.

  • Thomas B

    The vine of progressive programs which has its’ tentacles so wrapped around Americans’ wallets needs to be aggressively pruned. The churches will take care of the needy, which was what they did before the progressives( they’re actually regressives) started getting into the nurturing business to fool us into a gradual state of communistic powerlessness. The creatures of the left, who are from the parallel universe where everything is the reverse of what it should be must finally be sent back into the closet for the good of the many. A balanced budget will be impossible and a vital society will be impossible so long as the creepos who are separated from God, are allowed to have considerable power. if the country survives and elects a Rebublican, we can pressure the new administration, via the Tea Party, to cut, cut, cut. Perhaps a chain saw for some of the big vines. This will be an act of compassion for the vast majority of Americans. The social programs mostly produce troubled individuals who should have had love in a two parent household that has faith in God. If we cannot bring America back to faith in God, we will not be in America. We need to fight for our foundational principals I believe. Otherwise the liberals will keep pulling everything downward, and we will stay broke.

  • http://personallibertydigest CaptRichG

    Nothing more has to be said Mr. Ringer said it all – eloquently I might add

  • http://www.easyinvest.co.za peter

    Well now,let me get this straight – Obama keeps blaming everyone else for the mess and continues to say that the Republicans keep blocking his attempts to rectify the situation. That is his own admission of incompetence. He was not employed to tell us why he cannot do the job, he was employed to do it and if he can’t control his staff, then he better leave so that we can find someone (with a spine) who can.

  • bob wire

    “It’s scary to think about, but even Ann Coulter has fallen into the ageless trap of believing that conservatives should once again set aside their principles and nominate a candidate who can win. Not only is such a position unprincipled, it also yields either a losing Presidential race or a Republican President who does nothing more than carry the water bucket for Democrats. (Think George W. Bush.)”

    WHAT!!!! ????????

    well, yes a candidate that could actually win would be nice.

    but W carrying water for the DNC? ~ you want to blame that 8 years turkey on us do you?

    I can’t blame you for trying!

    • Jeep

      no bob, we will not “blame” you for GW…just the 5 trillion in deficit spending, unemployment above 9% (still!), dismal growth rate of 2%, obamacare, “shovel ready” jobs under more stimulous…you know, the stuff that your hero IS responsible for.

      • bob wire

        Well, I knew you was going to blame me for something!

        and your numbers are off, a little high Jeep, not mention much of this spending would not have been necessary if 43′s administration has actually ran the nation in hands on fashion. He left town and things a big mess.

        Ya! ya! I’m going to Crawford and chop cedar, you can figure it out!

      • clarence swinney

        TRY 8 OF BUSHELOON WITH 6 OF TOTAL CONSERVATIVE CONTROL
        WORST IN HISTORY
        CHECK THIS FACT CHECK
        Clinton to Bush to Obama
        Who Dug the Deep Hole? Who Fumbled the ball?
        Numbers rounded

        Clinton left Bush an 1800B Budget
        Bush Left Obama a 3500 Budget

        Clinton left Bush a 240B Surplus as far as the eye can see
        Bush left Obama a 1400B Deficit as far as the eye can see

        Clinton left Bush 5,700B of Debt
        Bush left Obama 11,800B of Debt

        Clinton left Bush a 237,000 net new jobs created per month
        Bush left Obama a 31,000 lowest number since Hoover.

        Clinton left Bush 17 Million Manufacturing Jobs
        Bush left Obama 11 Million Manufacturing Jobs

        Clinton left Bush a 10,800 Dow
        Bush left Obama an 8028 Dow

        Clinton left Bush Peace on Earth Good Will From Most Men
        Bush left Obama Hell on Earth Two disastrous wars. Enmity of 1500 Million Muslims

        Clinton left Bush a President most highly rated of any peacetime President in Asia, Africa, Europe.
        Bush left Obama the most hated President in history
        Bush left Obama an Housing Tsunami and Financial Volcano
        Bush left Obama, in 2008, an 8500B Bail out commitment Yes! 8500 not just 700
        Bush left Obama his Takeover of Fannie/Freddie, AIG, and first bailout of Chrysler
        Bush increased maximum loan by Fannie/Freddie from $300,000 to $729,000
        Bush increased FDIC maximum deposit coverage from $100,000 to $250,000
         clarence swinney–political historian–lifeaholics of america burlington nc
        author-Lifeaholic–Life story of Workaholic failure to Lifeaholic success
        Best seller list in haw river nc population 200 and growing
        comments welcome at cswinney2@triad.rr.com facts -numbers not opinion

        • Lost in Paradise

          Clarence your brain is stuck on Bush. Hit yourself in the head with a pick-axe, and maybe it will relieve the pressure.

        • Seek Wisdom

          The main thing livingston wants ‘liberty’ from is a progressive,21st century. The republicans have blocked any kind of healthcare reform for decades. They seem to worship the ‘I’ve got mine-the heck with you’ mentality.They want the government to provide police protection, a healthy infrastructure,no education,but don’t want to have to pay for it-let the lower-income folks pay for it.
          To use an expression I once heard,”Freedom isn’t free”.
          Your numbers don’t lie,Mr Swinney.

          • ohoh

            But his depiction of Bush’s terms as “conservative control” is a lie. Bush was no conservative. He was Obama progressive light at best.

          • Capitalist at Birth

            Then you should make a hasty exit, stage left.

    • PATRIOT 101

      Ann Coulter is just part of the Fox News wing of the military industrial complex. Chris Christie EXPOSED her when he endorsed Romney. Remember Ann Coulter fawned over Chris Christie as the new “Savior”. She is not all that conservative if she was for Chris Christie who couldn’t wait to endorse Socialist Romney!

  • PATRIOT 101

    You are all missing the BIG reason the Super Committee failed. They were ordered to fail. They (Democrats) were locked into $1 Trillion in Tax increases. Not a chance in H*** that the Repubs would go along with that.
    The media chimes and reports polls telling us how “worthless” and “unpopular” Congress is. The real motivation here is to make Congress even less desirable (if that is possible). Obama says he will act in the face of a “Do Nothing Congress”. Except people don’t realize he means that he will say he MUST go around the Do-Nothing congress on his way to total dictatorship. Watch for even more and blatant power grabs by the White House and this emerging dictator. The media will “Hail” Obama as smart and compassionate all along the way and urge “enforcement” of Presidential EO’s.
    Welcome to the new Police State of Amerika. Buy more bullets.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Sounds familiar, like 1930′s Germany comes to mind. I have been buying firearms and ammunition since November 2008, for the first time in my life, by the way.

  • http://na. Robert Bradfield

    Hi, it is that South African again.

    Looking at budget cuts and how to do them reminds me of what we did while I was a cost accountant at one of the Anglo-American goldmines where I worked. We gave each department head the all the budgets for each of the departments. They were required to come up with a lower budget for the mine as a whole. Each one could then adjust their own and each other department’s budget. After all this we as the cost accountants took their suggestions implemented their suggestions and then required everyone to use that budget to ensure the profitability of the mine but also requiring that they stick to their production plans and productivity objectives.

    No discussions were allowed during this process and no one was allowed to adjust their budgets during that year. The consequences were that we had one of the most productive and profitable years one that mine. I would suggest that this is exactly what should be done to your “super budget committee”, no discussions with anyone, no access by anyone, and implementing the biggest suggested cuts put forward by each of the members -then that will not only achieve the objective of cutting the budget by $1,2 trillion over 10 years, but will achieve that in one year. The next time around one would use twelve new people to investigate the budget and i promise you that within five years your budget will be not only balanced but really cut to the bone to ensure productive government spending on those programs that contributes most to the wellbeing of America. I call this “management by minimization” instead of “management by excess”.

    Be kind to everyone and my best wishes to all.

  • Alex

    Nine years of Bush Tax Cuts did NOTHING for everyday American families. Where are all the promised jobs?

    Even such a dimwitted electorate as ours, which has called over and over, ACROSS party lines, to tax the rich fairly, are beginning to place the blame where it belongs—our hyper-Capitalist system that destroys families while rewarding greed..

    The only thing that trickles down is urine—you Reich Wingers bottle it and call it ‘Tea”.

    • Jeep

      Alex, it is interesting how marxist individuals such as yourself are very good at blaming everyone but the socialist programs that have brought America to the brink of economic collapse. I know, you have all the stock Alinsky responses, are invested in your rhetoric and unyielding in your anti-American beliefs. But, the blame for your failure to thrive in our society rests on your shoulders alone. If you did not benefit from the “Bush tax cuts” then that is YOUR problem. Stop blaming everyone else for your failure to thrive. American patriots no longer have the time or the inclination to put up with the marxist drivel spewing forth from your addled brain housing group. Again, you are the failure, not the system.

      • Alex

        What on Earth gives you the idea that I fail to thrive? Because I am a dedicated Leftist, but not so much so that I ever heard of Saul Alinsky before stumbling onto PLD?

        You do not make much sense, Jeep, especially with the {M}arxist stuff. You should read some books, take your lips away from the Faux Noose gaspipe and get some air. You have no real sense of the term ‘Marxist’, it’s just a word you pretend to understand, but by applying it to a mainstream Capitalist like President Barack Hussein Obama betrays your ignorance.

        Curious: Are you one of those neo-conartists who cheered and sent other peoples’ children to die in Iraq? For Capital? If so, do you intend to apologize to any of the families whose kids you killed?

        As great a disappointment as President Obama has turned out to be, he will still be reelected because
        a) the Tegaggers have NOBODY to beat him, and
        b) the GOP lock-step policy of pushing this wretched country to the brink of ruin in hopes of holding Obama to one term has blown up in your bloated faces—look at the backlash already in Wisconsin and Ohio. Putting the hurt on American families for potential political gain never works, losers. HAA!!!

        • Jibbs

          You bring new meaning to the words, stupid and dumb.

        • Lost in Paradise

          Congratulations Alex you are an excellent liberal,socialist,expletive. In addition, you are dumb as a post.

    • alexa

      Creating jobs does little in the long run. However, if one creates products and services people want, then the jobs follow. Taking the path of ‘creating jobs’ produces a Greece. You just cannot have a third of the people working for government and another third on welfare and expect an economy to grow.

      • PATRIOT 101

        Alexa,
        You are right! I want the freedom to have a job, not have a job “created” for me! There is no unemployment in a Dictatorship. Slackers are forced into labor. Worthless eaters are exterminated.
        Those that beg government to “make them a job” are begging for a totalitarian regime.

        • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

          agreed and well said.

  • Warrior

    If it wasn’t for Grover NORQUIST, this would have been a huge success! Frickin “progressives” are hilarious, however, they all must go.

  • Tom

    I want a job (Rep & Dem) that I do not have to do anything or take any responsibilities but get paid for the rest of my life.

    We need to vote in all independents and do away with the same old same old BS in Washington.

    Were was Obama in these meetings to give guidance!

    Vote Ron Paul…….

  • DanB

    I was sick with my choices in 2008. An ignorant voter in many respects buying the line that I had to vote for either McCain or Obama. This time, while I hope that the Tea Party wins their battle against the republican establishment in the primaries, even if they only squeak in one of the candidates, this year I will be voting my conscience even if I have to write in my choice. I would prefer to not do a write in. If I am presented with the choice of progressive versus progressive lite again, I am going to do what is right and vote but vote for neither of the above. How I wish the debate was from two constitutional conservatives instead of what we had in 2008. It would be much better to choose the best between something say like Mike Lee and Ron Paul (I know Mike Lee is not running for president but I wanted to paint a picture of someone we might agree with is a constitutional conservative). I was hoping we would see some of this with the republican primaries but too many of them have gotten into the political machine, which makes me sick, and the moderators of the debates seem to want to avoid illustrating that constitutional conservatives are making a showing in this primary. As if they are intentionally seeking to hide a rising opposition to progressivism. Which is probably why you have seen so little air time for your much vaunted Ron Paul, or why I am disgusted that the others I was hoping to hear debate have been steered by their campaigns and the debate moderators into very disturbing collapses. And so far I have only heard one candidate even say something that I thought was key to being a true constitutional conservative in the Presidency, and it wasn’t Ron Paul. It was one of those things that I felt was more important than getting 99% correct on what was constitutional or not, for if the person we elect sacrifices the constitutional limit of the President in order to preserve the constitution, then we’ve lost the constitution anyways. Of course, none of the candidates have declared that they would do what I dream a constitutional conservative would do, and that is abolish executive orders. And I mean ALL!! Making only one “executive order” specifically to end all past and present executive orders. It would be a mess I realize because you would have to sort out a ton from the past, but that would be my dream to have a constitutional conservative who would return the presidency to its very limited powers and authority. I don’t expect it to all happen in one presidency, but I would love a grand start to the process. I don’t see that happening in any of these candidates. I didn’t expect it either. With the progressive machine in place, even a constitutional conservative would be sorely tempted to hold on to the most powerful weapon in the presidents arsenal. And I would expect that most of us who would favor a constitutional conservative would cry out in pain and agony if they truly did declare that they would break the power of executive order. I still wish for it though.

    • http://www.keysinsurance.com Linda

      And who is the one candidate that you heard say something constitutional?

    • Jibbs

      Who do you have in mind??

  • 4-just_us

    Why is our congress and President so corrupt,above the law, and only interested in their bank account? Because nobody there is held acountable? How did it get this way? It’s no use to keep changing people, we need to figure a way to change the system and I don’t see anybody trying to do that except Ron Paul. Our two party system,lobyiest system, corporat money system,monatary system and accountability system need to change first.

  • http://Boblivingston Lyle McDaniel

    fire them all, start over

  • Mirage

    I don’t care how many awards Ringer has won – judging by this article, he’s an incitant, throwing around words like “Marxist” when describing our president. Clearly that is NOT the case. Phrases/adjectives suggesting a blend of capitalism/socialism respectively, would be a more accurate description of President Obama, as would the words “partially-bought” (by big business interests like ALL politicians). Leave the overly emotional language and inaccurate “baggage” words like “Marxist”, back at the playground where they belong.
    In using such inaccurate political hyperbole, Ringer proves himself to be a unprofessional hack, and below, any semblence of objectivity. Simply state the facts and let readers think/judge for themselves.
    Oh well, perhaps Ringer is from a small Southern town, or some corn-fed society devoid of color, and he’s never risen above his beginnings, nor questioned anything he was taught … just follow the sheeple: Next.

    • Cawmun Cents

      The term”Marxist”gets used for a reason.Because,when you look at the preponderence of academia in the world today,there is plenty of”marxism”going around.
      Someone who goes to a university and learns higher education(especially in Ivy League schools),is going to be instructed by”marxists”.
      Have you ever heard of a magazine called Radiical Teacher?
      Well if you havent then I suggest that you look up the on-line version and read a bit.
      Have you ever read the communist manifesto?

      If you have then you woould know what I know.
      That you cant hide behind rhetorical media coverage,and backwater journalism forever.
      One day the disenfranchised learned what has been taking place deep in the bowels of our nation,and as a consequence,understands exactly the nature of the hidden dynamo which is killing us from within.
      It is not a figment of our imaginations as you would have us believe.
      It is a secular humanist approach,to becoming a tumorous growth by which our nation has become rife with the disease of”marxism”.
      A fact which you may patently deny,but becomes self evident when you educate yourself by looking at what is and what appears to be.
      Radicals have taken over every institution of our nation while we enjoyed the slumber of comfort and good living.
      Now that some are waking up and shouting the reality of todays situation,you want to try to put them back to sleep by singing lullabies of peace and Kum Bayah.
      Sorry,but it wont fly here.
      Some of us here know the very nature of who you are and what you are pushing.
      We dont know from guessing or from read the revisionary history we have been being fooled by for decades.
      We know because we have something that you lack.
      And you cannot know what we know because your dark heart will not permit you to learn it.

      Your own humanity becomes self evident,as do the lies by which your agenda can be brought to light by knowing real history and its actual relative circumstance.
      Which is that though you choose to back the losing team,and seek to cauuse us to doubt ours,you are effectively bashing your head against a steel girder,and expecting it to bend.
      We have a solid foundation that we build our houses upon.
      Not the false ones like pretending to extend help to our fellow man by our mouths,but not doing a darn thing through our actions.
      Not causing the weak minded to believe in a lie so that we can subjugate him and everyone else.
      Not using the ends against the middle.
      Not using education as a pollitical toll.
      Not using labor as a political tool.
      Not using the very environment that we live in as a political tool.

      That is not the aim of the public at large,but of the extreme political beliefs of”marxists”.
      Those who dominate the Democratic Party.

      So when we say the word”marxist”,it is because we know the ties to secular humanity of that particular entity.
      We know how strong they are by observation.
      We know how they are used to blind people to the truth on a regular basis.
      Dont ask us to leave that word out of the conversation until you are willing to leave its tactics out of the political intent of this nation.
      Dont accuse us of crying when we are shouting.
      Dont accuse us of denying the people of changes in structure which this nation cannot survive.
      Rather understand that we dont want any”maixism”.
      It hasnt worked anywhere that it has been applied.
      It wont work here either.
      Face the fact.
      ‘Marxism”is dead,and has been since infancy.

      -CC.

      • 45caliber

        Carl Marx hated Communism. He stated that any reference to him was simply a move by them to hide what they really were after – world domination by a small few.

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          45caliber says:
          November 22, 2011 at 11:59 am
          Carl Marx hated Communism. He stated that any reference to him was simply a move by them to hide what they really were after – world domination by a small few.You are right.If he was alive today,he would be anti communist.He hated all governments.He even praise capitalism.

          Marxist Communism has been the one of the most influential ideological … Americans do have many misconceptions about Communism however, which have … in the 20th century by their anti-Communist policies, and because communism was a … Then Karl Marx came along in the mid 1800s and Marx denounced the …
          http://rationalrevolution.net/war/communism_and_marxism.htm

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Here is one:Christian Communism(non Marxian)

          Wikipedia:
          Christian communism This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (September 2011)

          Christian communism is a form of religious communism centred on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ urge Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Christian communists trace the origins of their practice to teachings in the New Testament, such as this one from Acts of the Apostles at chapter 2 and verses 42, 44, and 45:

          42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and in fellowship … 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things in common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (King James Version)

          Christian communism can be seen as a radical form of Christian socialism. Also, because many Christian communists have formed independent stateless communes in the past, there is also a link between Christian communism and Christian anarchism. Christian communists may not agree with various parts of Marxism, but they share some of the political goals of Marxists, for example replacing capitalism with socialism, which should in turn be followed by communism at a later point in the future. However, Christian communists sometimes disagree with Marxists (and particularly with Leninists) on the way a socialist or communist society should be organized.

          • James

            1911man, It’s based upon the notion that Jesus loves every damn thing. They carry their Bible around for show, not insight. When a woman of Canaan asked Jesus to heal her daughter, He ignored her. When she repeated her supplication, He said: “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” When she worshipped Him, He said: “It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and cast it to dogs” (Mt. 15:22-28). Needless to say, no church ever quotes that!

      • Mirage

        Sorry you’re so threatened you felt the need to write a manifesto.
        Any way, guess what … if it weren’t for universities/higher education throughout the ages, and the contributions to society that their most brilliant minds were able to achieve, you’d be paintin’ animal figures on the inside of some cave somewhere, vs. typing out dribble via computer for all to either embrace, or rightfully, laugh at.

    • Jibbs

      How would you like my small southern town boot up your big city a$$, perhaps you would like to visit my small southern town and repeat you words in the middle of town for all to hear.
      No one here voted for the NIC.

      • Mirage

        In your terms, so you can grasp the image: A big Montanan boot beats a small southern town boot any day. Now run along and eat your crackers.

    • ohoh

      Your comments about Ringer reveal more about your ignorance of the issue rather than Ringer’s. Ringer just presumed a baseline intelligence and knowledge which you possibly lack, for it is you who need to do some reacing.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      I think you have failed to see the truth. Obama is either a Marxist or a Totalitarian Socialist, or a Nazzi. Like it or not, those are the facts Mam.

    • JeffH

      Mirage, there is no longer any question about O’man’s Marxist background…it’s simply a fact!

      Background information

      “Obama learned his lesson well. I am proud to see that my father’s model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday.” –Letter from L. DAVID ALINSKY, son of Neo-Marxist Saul Alinsky

      Obama helped fund ‘Alinsky Academy’: “The Woods Fund, a nonprofit on which Obama served as paid director from 1999 to December 2002, provided startup funding and later capital to the Midwest Academy…. Obama sat on the Woods Fund board alongside William Ayers, founder of the Weather Underground domestic terrorist organization…. ‘Midwest describes itself as ‘one of the nation’s oldest and best-known schools for community organizations, citizen organizations and individuals committed to progressive social change.’… Midwest teaches Alinsky tactics of community organizing.”

      Obama and the Cult of Alinsky: “True revolutionaries do not flaunt their radicalism, Alinsky taught. They cut their hair, put on suits and infiltrate the system from within. Alinsky viewed revolution as a slow, patient process. The trick was to penetrate existing institutions such as churches, unions and political parties…. Many leftists view Hillary as a sell-out because she claims to hold moderate views on some issues. However, Hillary is simply following Alinsky’s counsel to do and say whatever it takes to gain power.

      “Obama is also an Alinskyite…. Obama spent years teaching workshops on the Alinsky method. In 1985 he began a four-year stint as a community organizer in Chicago, working for an Alinskyite group called the Developing Communities Project…. Camouflage is key to Alinsky-style organizing. While trying to build coalitions of black churches in Chicago, Obama caught flak for not attending church himself. He became an instant churchgoer.”

    • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

      and you talk about using inaccurate hyperbole, spouting gradeschool crap inuendoes like that?

      • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

        this was for mirage.

  • Jon

    Why is anyone surprised at the results of the StuporCommittee? I did notice, though, that they woke up enough on Sunday to make the media talk-show circuit. All Americans need to fess up to the known fact that people always get the government they deserve. Everyone will need to share in the pain of straightening things out and stop expecting someone else to pay for our lunch. Then we could all benefit, as well. Yes, Congress is pretty worthless, but they only reflect the views and attitudes of the idiots who sent them there.

  • JohnK.

    Obama will just issue another Executive order because THIS issue, like about a dozen other so far, are to important for ANYONE else but him to deal with. Where is the “ENOUGH BUTTON”?? Or better yet the Eject Button on this President and his “so called” Administration!!

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gillysrooms

    Best solution is to to accept the Democrats tax the rich program, so we dont lose our assets values in the the meltdown. If your Congress dont tax the rich to reduce the deficit…they and we lose a substantial part of our asset values. The drop in asset values will far outweigh the tax costs in assets values 4 to 1 ratio or more. Consider your verdict, but dont stuff around any more. The Republicans are already costing the our Super funds invested in your country $billions of Australian. Wake up America.

    • Jeep

      And, what gives you the moral authority to tax anyone? Who made you the judge of what is “rich”? Did I miss the memo from God that put a limit on what people need in their lives? And, exactly what amendment in the Constitution spells out that the “rich” are to be taxed to pay for the “poor”? Just curious, because I thought I was living in America, not Europe.

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gillysrooms

        Am I missing something here? Do you have any assets or investments? or just gold. Do you wish to lose everything? The majority of your voters forgot the Constitution when it suited them in the good years by voting successive governments time and time again without ever complaining about the huge borrowings, the huge deficits, the printing of money AND now suddenly a minority want to suddenly go back to the stone age. Its too late, the horse has bolted and the world is in the grip of disaster, yet your Republicans are the vandals in this current Congress wanting to stop the world after taking our investment money in your country. Our Australian Pension Funds have already lost $billions in your markets and you want us to lose the lot?

        I dont believe you understand…that when the majority of your voters ignored the rules you now want to bring in to stop taxing the rich now….that the majority of your voters where agreeing to ignore your Constitutional powers and in effect it was a defacto refferrendum to change your Constitution…so the USA could continue to print inflationary dollars, create huge deficits and borrow huge amounts from anyone who would lend or invest into your free economy, yet now you want to stop the musical chairs. Your rich and poor have enjoyed a good life and now a little like the Greeks…you have to pay a little to save the world. Tax is going to be the price to save the world from losing in your markets, but if you want to be poor like the Greeks who want everything for nothing…you too WILL end up with nothing. You owe it to the world who have invested $Trillions in your economy to do the right thing and pass the OBAMA programs NOW. The time for delays are over. The time is NOW. From Australia

        • Bumpkin

          When you Ozzies get your own heads out of the sand and get your guns back, maybe we can talk. Don’t tell us how to run our country until you can run, not ruin your own.

        • Capitalist at Birth

          Are you ignorant or just plain stupid. Obama is a Communist, pure and simple. We choose to be free. I suggest you sell all of you U.S. investments immediately. I will buy them all. Stay down under and mind your own business.

          • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gillysrooms

            You are a fool and I am minding my own business. You wish your country to go bankrupt by stopping the merry go around and as we are on the one same earth, we are in this mess together and as Australlia and America are not communist countries I shall continue to put my opinions in these posts to try to put my view across. You on the other hand are labelling you President with all manner of derogative titles which your President and the Office of President do not deserve. It goes to show the very little diplomacy and ettiquet you possess. People like you swould start wars by trying to aggrivate not conciliate. I wont judge your people by the actions of some of your rednecks in these posts. Who care which religion or political pursuasion your claiming your president to be….we need a resolution of your and Europes problems asap. You are not wealthy as you demonstrate to be an idealist not a moneied man. Your probably just a middle class worker whose parent left you their estate and you never operated a business, except from an armchair watching Donald Trump playing magical chairs with other peoples money…lol

          • Joe H.

            gillysrooms,
            dude go have a schooner and LEAVE US ALONE!! your people just like all the people in the world were looking to make a killing investing in our country and now that it didn’t happen, boo hoo!!! Go cry in YOUR beer not my coca cola!!!

      • James

        Jeep, Prior to the 16th Amendment, it was unconstitutional to tax one person more than another. That amendment allowed the Marxist graduated income tax.

    • Lost in Paradise

      You want us to follow the same liberal path as you do downunder? That is what got us to this mess in the first place. Because of liberals,and socialists, you have the same problems we do and now you are doing the blame game as our dems do. Have you not learned how well liberal mentality really works.

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gillysrooms

        I shall continue to put my opinions in these posts to try to put my view across. You on the other hand are labelling you President with all manner of derogative titles which your President and the Office of President does not deserve. It goes to show the very little diplomacy and ettiquet some of you posters possess. People like you swould start wars by trying to aggrivate not concilliate. I wont judge your people by the actions of some of your rednecks in these posts. Who cares which religion or political pursuasion your claiming your president to be, but you forget he is part of a huge team of blacks and whites…….we need a resolution of your and Europes problems asap. Europe has been lost, but America can continue only if your idealistic republicans forget about going bankrupt and let the OBAMA TEAM continue the rescue measures. Bankruptcy is Theft just as Taxation is Theft and your Republican dictators are demanding bankruptcy by stopping the Obama plans. Most of you Republican posters are not wealthy as you demonstrate to be, just idealist not men of money or with any business sense. Your probably just middle class workers whose parents left you their estates and you never operated any businesses, except from an armchair watching Donald Trump playing magical chairs with other peoples money…lol. Come bavck to reality.

        • Joe H.

          gilysrooms,
          Go back to your beer, you’re starting to repeat yourself!!

          • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms

            JOE H, I rarely drink booze and I never polute our air by smoking tobacco as so many people do the world over Joe, And I intend to excercise my democratic right to free speech when evever it pleases me. Got that? And I will repeat myself as often as I please. i SUGGEST YOU GO TO DIPLOMACY SCHOOL…

  • Geronimo Schmidt

    Mr. Ringer credibility took a nose dive by calling Obama a Marxist

    Marxists or Communists as you would like to call them would not have been negotiating with Republicans or expecting a “bipartisan” solution. Karl Marx advocated armed struggle to gain power, he had no patience with political horse trading.

    Obama is too much of a wimp to be a Marxist.

    Now, Facists and National Socialists did “game” the political process to gain power…Is this what the right wing conservatives are trying to do? Let the whole things go to hell so the populace get their pitchforks and torches and claim for drastic action which can only be accomplsh by a right wing conservative christian dictatorship?

    There is a serious need to reduce our spending, modify and fix our entitlement programs, reduce defense spending and simplify our tax system…..and also re-instate and increase some taxes. This should be done without drama if we had a capable Congress and adequate presidential leadership.

    • AJ

      You’re right Obama should be called for what he really is. A george Soreass hand puppet, an empty suit that only spits forth what’s written on his teleprompter. He’s a disgrace.

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gillysrooms

        Labeling the President is not going to solve the cuurent problems.Put your brain to better use and help resolve the problem.

        • Joe H.

          YES, PEOPLE!! Gilly’s losing money!! Hurry!!! Sorry Gilly, it’s kinda hard to worry about your money when our poor excuse for a president is sending our country down the highway to HELL!!!

          • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

            poor gilly I’M only losing my money my freedom and my country. my heart is bleeding for poor gilly.

          • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms

            Joe H and 1911Man, should realise I dont let strange people manage my money and i dont have anything in your country…so personally it dont affect me personally or directly, however every bank in the world is affected …so no one is going to get out of the mess without loss. Even Lloyds bank cant save all its assets from failure despite them withdrawing almost all their money from European banks…

    • ohoh

      You paint with too broad a brush and unfairly judge Ringer. Marxists have often have come as spies, covert operatives, conspirators and other shades of usurpation without resorting to violence. The time’s not right. Still work to do. Give a Marxist enough time, enough progress and enough excuses from people like you and then see how his peaceful demeanor give way to his true Marxist roots as it already has among many his violence-advocating Marxist followers.

  • http://Boblivingston Lyle McDaniel

    We all miss the importance of the committee(super by the way). Our shovel ready in chief has sooo much on his plate he needs some one to watch the henhouse while he is taking care of all the forien policy.A very important job . Now let me be clear , the Air Force One might get cooled down and be hard to start, and he wont have us all sold out yet .He has to keep that do nothing ,lazy congress doing what they are told to do.Now with them gone the only thing left is to write up a stack of executive orders to get passed till he runs out of jet fuel. watch for the next episode.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gillysrooms

    No time waiting for Herman Cains 9-9-9 plan. Accept the Obama plan now, then if Herman wins try his plan then. Your Congress is gambling big time by stopping the Obama Tax and Jobs plan.

    • Jeep

      Does the DNC pay you by the comment, or the word?

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gillysrooms

        The matters I refer to are very urgent and serious matters and as long as we have a democracy of free speech I intend to put my point of view across. If you want censorship of political and economic views…Russia or China ‘might’ accept your application to immigrate there…otherwise go and learn what free speech really means

        • Bumpkin

          You may be a democracy down under, BUT WE ARE A REPUBLIC!

        • Jibbs

          FTNAY

    • Lost in Paradise

      Obama’s plan will and has done nothing except help to bury us in debt.How much do they pay you to contribute to this forum? You are a payed for plant!

    • Jibbs

      Why don’t you go for a one way walk in the outback. You better be careful, obummer might bomb your country next!

      • Joe H.

        jibbs,
        Careful guy, I find myself agreeing with you!!! I do believe the term you were looking for was walkabout!!!

  • Geronimo Schmidt

    Maybe we should follow Italy example

    Have a SuperComittee of technocrats and economists not beholden to politician or voters or Norquist. Let them make the decisions that politicians are unwilling or unable to do

    • 45caliber

      None of our politicians consider themselves beholden to the voters now. And I don’t think you will like what becomes of Italy in a few years.

  • Raggs

    I want to start here by wishing everyone a happy Thanksgiving weekend. :) ….

    That aside many of us here knew all along that this ( super-sucker-committee ) was designed to do nothing but place blame at the doorstep of the republican party… The GOP simply bowed down to yet another democratic Saul Alinsky style trap…
    Cutting $1.2 trillion over a period of ten years is nothing but a big fat joke, the government will spend 30 times that much in the next two years…. I figure that the next move is going to be to raise the debt ceiling and borrow more from China.

  • Thurman J LeNormand

    The super committee, plain and simple was just another tool to continue kicking the bucket down the road. We should not be surprised! In the meaintime the media, including Fox and the Democrats are ushering in their favorite conservative candidate, Mitt Romney. Last night on the Hannity show he was interviewed by Hannity, and was asked if he believed that Obama was a “Socialist”, and Romney said that he could not use that word, and he would refer to Obama as a “Liberal Democrat”. Clearly Mr. Romney is an intellegent individual, but after three years of this impostor Obama , a would be Hugo Chavez President, Mr. Romney just could not bring it on himself to label him for what he truly is. Evidently, Romney and McCain are like two peas in a a pod, and this being the case we are doomed again if we select Mitt Romney to be our Republican candidate in 2012. The only candidate that has been consistent to support truly conservative values is Michele Bachmann! She has not wavered in her beliefs.

  • CP

    Most of what I have heard here ignores the basic fact that our politicians are no longer politicians. They now go to Washington with the idea that they can do everything they promised if they can only have things their way. This is just as true for Republicans as Democrats, as neither side really likes to give in on anything. What gripes me is that when either side has reached out with a compromise solution, giving up some of what they wanted and asking the other side to do the same, they have had the offer thrown back in their faces. Again, this happens on both sides of the aisle.

  • bob wire

    “Will conservatives be smart enough and tough enough to understand that promising to cut the size and scope of government and put an end to the criminality in Washington is what got them elected to Congress in 2010?”

    With all due respects Mr. Ringer 2010 was just a midterm election and the voter turnout was light. There never was a clear “mandate”as has been repeated over and over until you and friends think of it as true today and not to be questioned.

    Then too, after being beat like a drum in 08 generals, ~ the GOP was left having to stand on a stool to touch the bottom in 2009 and had only one direction left for them to go~ “UP”! Cricket sounds and walling was the only noises coming from the right in 2009.

    Nor to mention the “buyers remorse” that many states are feeling today and recall vote in progress in several states and already set several Tea Party candidates packing, this Russell of Arizona just one of several proud to mention and more coming. We are going to pack Gov. “Walker’s” bags to and send him to the Koch brother, he and Cain can get to know each other while they are sitting the Koch’s front lobby.

    • ohoh

      The Tea Party caused one of the biggest Congressional turnovers in American history, and in a mid-term election to boot. Yeah, that’s right Bob, no big deal. And don’t be distracted. Real change is sometimes messy, and the bigger the messier as imperiled status quo types grasp at the remnants of their slipping control. All that’s happening now is the inevitable attempts to discredit the Tea Party by the Democrats and the to co-opt it by the Republicans. As you misread and diminish the historic impact of the principled Tea Party I’ll bet you’ll misread and exaggerate impact of the OWS movement, unprincipled pikers by comparison.

      • bob wire

        “The Tea Party caused one of the biggest Congressional turnovers in American history, and in a mid-term election to boot.”

        It’s good that you see these turn of events in such a flattering light.

        The student vote made a poor showing midterms but I think we can expect them in 2012. I’ve no great desire to rain on your parade, reality will do it without me saying a word.

      • Thinking about

        The Tea Party has performed well in discrediting themselves, they did not need the Democrat or Republilcians to help them. Wrong answers and policies will not put this train back on track and we know the train will not go where there is not a track. Blaming who, the TP can not change what they do not acknowledge.

        • JeffH

          Ta, discrediting themselves? Think again! Isn’t it the “leaderless” grassroots Tea Party movement that has challenged the Republican establishment? History will judge whether they’ve been good or bad, but they are having an effect despite the MSM and the DC establisment’s continued attempts to discredit this pro-America grassroots movement.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gillysrooms

    I liken your Republican Congress members procrastinating on the Obama plan like the derivative gambling instrument. Tax the rich to stop the stock markets girating and spiralling downwards ….but maybe they are playing the market with put options and derivatives as prices rise and fall every day the taxing decisions are delayed. WAKE UP AMERICA….a 10% extra tax would save assets values falling 50% for rich and poor mums and dads investors, pension funds, more banks failing etc we all in it together and this is the real war on silly Republican politicians. from Australia.

    • Jibbs

      I think obama should be president of your country next, then tell us how great you think he is.

      • Bumpkin

        I agree Jibbs, they can have him downunder.

      • JeffH

        Hear Hear Jibbs!

    • Joe H.

      Gillysrooms,
      since you are so intelligent(?), isn’t there any pressing matters in YOUR country that need your attention??? Or is everything just hunky dory in Austrailia??? Let’s see, didn’t I see a report about some nasty little “riots” a little while ago?? Then there was a report about how the Blacks are getting some pretty bad treatment there?? Sounds like you have enough on YOUR OWN plate without forking around in ours!!!

  • Susan

    I may have missed this observation somewhere in these good comments… Did anyone address the fact that this Super Committee is blatantly UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and does it even matter anymore? Our “Representative form of Govt” is simply gone, with a weak whimper? Where are MY elected officials who are to ‘stand in my stead’?!

    • 45caliber

      Susan:

      It isn’t unConstitutional – yet. As long as this “Supercommittee” simply drags its feet and makes “suggestions” to Congress, it is no more illegal than any other committee. Congress will have the final say – if they wish. And if they don’t wish, they are still having the final say.

      • bob wire

        A presidential veto is the final say. ~ This 1.6 trillion budget cut is going to happen one way or the other. ~ I thought you liked budget cuts?

        • JeffH

          bw, In the United States, Congress can override a presidential veto by having a two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and Senate, thus enacting the bill into law despite the president’s veto. However, a veto may not be overridden if it is a pocket veto, a veto in which the president simply ignores a bill between congressional sessions. The veto override is an example of checks and balances, the process in which various branches of the U.S. government can limit each others’ power…

  • HarryButtle

    Well, I agree that the Super Committee deadlock is no surprise. But, it’s a fake deadlock over the fake national debt issue. We know what the causes of the debt are: the economic collapse that reduced revenue, the two wars, tax cuts for the rich, the GOP war on middle class incomes.

    House Republicans have voted to put trillions of tax cuts to the wealthy on the nation’s credit card and threatened to prevent the Treasury Department from making the payments. Taxes are lower now than they were at any time under George Bush. There is nothing in our national history that would make any reasonable person believe that lowering taxes creates jobs. Despite lowering taxes and deregulation, Bush had the worst jobs creation record since WWII.

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      HarryButtle,

      It actually began with Calvin Coolidge, Ronald Reagan and ended with George Bush.Obama can’t get any reforms pass,because of The House Republicans’ strangle hold.

      • 45caliber

        coal:

        You are a little off. He could get ANYTHING passed during his first two years and I seriously doubt that he would get anything he wants shut down now. Too many Republicans want to “go along to get along” – and he controls the Sentate as it is. Since he DID get what he wanted during the first two years – such as Oblamacare – that is one of the main reasons we are in this fix. From what you said, it sounded as if he wasn’t responsible for anything – which is very wrong.

        • Joe H.

          45caliber
          Save your fingers. I asked him a long time ago why Abummer didn’t pass everything he wanted his first year in office when he had a super majority enough to shut the repubs and conservatives out of any discussions and he never answered me!!!!

      • Pete0097

        The democrats couldn’t get a budget passed for the first 2 years of obamas administration, eve though the dems controlled the House, The Senate, and the White House. They could ram rod through obamacare without serious discussions in just a few days. There are things in that piece of legislation that even the rank and file democrat zombies don’t even like. These yahoos in congress only think about how things affect their own wallets (think Pelosi’s insider trading and market manipulation via legislation manipulation) They just want to get re-elected and could care less about their constituants.

        • Thinking about

          The Dems had the majority but did not have the Super Majority required to get anything passed there and the Super Majorit is 6o versus 51/49.

  • HarryButtle

    As President Reagan entered office in 1981 he repeatedly called for a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution, yet never submitted a balanced budget himself. If one is intent on really putting the screws to the middle class, a balanced budget amendment is one way to do it.

    Many on the right reflexively blame the
    Democratically controlled Congress for the “big spending” during his administration, even though Republicans controlled the Senate for the first six years of his two terms. Only during the last two years of the Reagan administration was the Congress completely controlled by
    Democrats, and the records show that the growth of the debt slowed during this period. It appears that the frequently referenced Reagan’s Conservative mythology is contrary to the truth; he was an award winning, record setting liberal spender and government grower.

    Since 1946, Democratic presidents increased the national debt
    an average of 3.2% per year. The Republican presidents stay at an average increase of 9.2% per year. Republican Presidents out borrowed and out spent Democratic presidents by a three to one ratio. Putting that in very real terms; for every dollar a Democratic president has raised the national debt in the past 63 years Republican
    presidents have raised the debt by $2.84.

    Debt hysteria is a fraud and anyone who does not have at least a middle 6 figure income is a fool for buying into GOP mythology, fiscal and tax policy. You’re being played.

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      HarryButtle

      You are right.

  • Clifford Sondock

    The Super Committee was a farce by its inception as the “Super Committee” has no Constitutional authority and bypasses debate by all elected Government representatives. Furthermore, Government power and related Government spending has substantially surpassed such Government power enumerated in the US Constitution. The American political system was designed not as a democracy but as a Constitutional Repubic. Therefore, our current economic catastrophe should be attribued to all those elected representatives over the past century that violated their oath of office to “preseve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies; foreign and domestic.” Obviously, we have lost more of our Liberty from domestic enemies of the Constitution than any foreign enemy, including Osama Bin Ladin.

  • Dan Short

    The satyr you’ve achieved in this article is appreciated.
    Sadly in a nation which elected the worse of two candidates chosen by the “cultural communist” press—because he was “black.” What are our expectations of a better tomorrow?
    Isn’t it interesting that the activity of the “Tea Party,” the election of the “conservatives” to congress, and the “desire” of those who are cognitive of the perilous position of our nation—have all been swept aside by this farce of “political” misdirect.
    In a nation of illiteracy in politics, economics, and the history of not only our own nation, but the history of the world—what should be our expectations?
    This nation is in the depths of an attack of cultural communism, directed by the very administration we’ve—in a free society—elected. Yet we hear not the words, find no press identifying the attack; in fact whenever I use the facts of cultural communism to respond to papers…such as the New York Times…they refuse to even print it. Is this not verification of the reality of the attack?
    We must return our nation to the constricting design of the constitution. For if we do not—we will wake up some day; much like today; where we are not the United States of America. We will be the North American Soviet and our great experiment will be over.

  • 45caliber

    $1.2 trillion over ten years? And it is supposed to come from future spending? In other words, someone can say, “Well, I WAS going to ask for ten million to finance a statue to myself but due to this need to reduce spending, I’m willing to give it up.”

    What we need is real cuts – enough to balance the budget. And that means, as said above $1.5 trillion PER YEAR. Further, we need to pay off the debt and to reduce taxes so we can be prosperous again – let’s say another half trillion – at least.

    And until I see that done, I won’t believe anyone in Washington cares a bit about cutting anything.

  • 45caliber

    Perhaps we should go to the “American”. Simply come out with a new currency (that the Federal Reserve does NOT handle) and declare the “dollar” as bankrupt and worthless. We could base the American on whatever – gold would be nice – to keep it stable.

    • mark

      Yeah that’s a good idea, declare the dollar worthless and bankrupt. Any more brilliant ideas?

      • 45caliber

        mark:

        One of my best ideas is for you to leave permanently and go to one of the Communist countries you favor so much to live there. You would likely raise the IQ of both countries if you did.

        • Joe H.

          45caliber,
          NAH!!!! If someone gave mark half a brain, he’d have a quarter brain!!!

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gillysrooms

    Most of the contributors to these posts say that what the current government is doing with money and laws is Un-constitutional and never changed or put to the vote, yet I dont believe you understand…that when the majority of your voters ignored the rules you now want to bring in to stop taxing the rich now….that the majority of your voters were agreeing to ignore your Constitutional powers and in effect it was a defacto refferrendum to change your Constitution…so the USA could continue to print inflationary dollars, create huge deficits and borrow huge amounts from anyone who would lend or invest into your free economy, yet now you want to stop the musical chairs. Your rich and poor have enjoyed a good life and now a little like the Greeks…you have to pay a little to save the world. Tax is going to be the price to save the world from losing in your markets, but if you want to be poor like the Greeks who want everything for nothing…you too WILL end up with nothing. You owe it to the world who have invested $Trillions in your economy to do the right thing and pass the OBAMA programs NOW. The time for delays are over. The time is NOW. From Australia

    • stand for the worker

      You haven’t a dithering clue as to what you’re talking about.
      Read my post and end your politically correct, socialist ignorance.

    • Jibbs

      gillysrooms says:
      November 22, 2011 at 9:34 am
      You owe it to the world who have invested $Trillions in your economy to do the right thing and pass the OBAMA programs NOW. The time for delays are over. The time is NOW. From Australia

      ———————————————————————-

      I guess all the free protection we provide the world and the military hardware, food, clothing, medical, money we send to the rest of the world is free. I say we owe the world nothing. How about all the refugee’s we take in and support.

      How are those gun laws in Australia working out?

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS

        Your country and government should give more of your money and services to your own people I agree instead of giving so much away to socialist countries. Yes we appreciate what the American government does for us in the military area. We dont need guns to win in our country..only criminals want/ need guns. With so many mentally ill people in our country due to MJ abuse and other drugs …we are lucky everyone does not have easy access to guns like your crazy people who murder anyone on the spurt of the moment killing millions of innocent people every year in your country. In my view the pen is mightier than the gun, but if we need guns we can just call your Uncle Sam to come to the rescue if our own army runs out. But dont you worry about that, lots of our farmers still have lots guns if we need any.

        • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

          so I gather all of your farmers are evil criminals? by the way wats this I hear about this new American Marine base being built down under to protect you people from a threat from china?your govt. must not have much faith in that army you speak of.

          • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

            maybe if your invaded by china you can use your pen to write them a severe letter of reprimand.

        • Joe H.

          Gillysrooms,
          Here’s a little FACT for you. According to the FBI, Gun ownership is at an all time high for the last three years. For the last three years running, the violent crime rate in the US is down!!! I guess an armed society IS a polite society!!! how’s the violent crime rate in your country since the ban of GUNS????

          • Joe H.

            gilly,
            As an addendum to my post above. NRA magazine from NRA executive Vice president December 2011 edition:”Over the last three years, the Obama administration and its anti-gun allies have been in a silent but sophisticated long-term conspiracy to:
            1. Neutralize gun owners and Nra voters as a political force in national elections, and thereby:
            2. Win re-election to a second term in the White House, where they then will be immune to the will of voters and free to continue consolidating and misusing their ever-increasing power to:
            3. Prosecute a full scale, sustained, all out campaign to excise the Second Amendment from our bill of rights through legislation, litigation, regulation,executive orders,judicial fiat, international treaties—in short, all the levers of power of all three branches of government.
            Now I ask you gilly, is THIS the type of government that we who believe in the right to carry and own should support willingly??? NEVER, I say!!!!

    • ohoh

      We do not have a “defacto referendum” process. We have a republic that operates under the rule of law that was intended to protect us from unbridled, destructive democracy. And when we fail to follow the law, we shouldn’t compound the problem by repeating it even if it seems to be the democratic, convenient or just thing to do. On the contrary, this is the time to get back in touch with our republican roots and the rule of law that has actually served us well.

    • JeffH

      gillysrooms, are you really an Aussie or are you just another of the many progressive schills and trolls that attempt to disrupt conservative blogs? I’ll take a shot here and guess the latter.
      FYI – one of the giveaways besides your displayed love of socialism is the fact that you prefer to post your “blog name” in small or lowercase letters. Not saying hat everyone that chooses to do so are progressive/communist/socialist/Marxists but it does seem to be a bit more trendy for those that do represent the calls of the progressive/communist/socialist/Marxists that frequent PLD.

      Like all the rest do, you’ll eventually leave, frustrated!

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gillysrooms

        I’m thinking your either paranoid or a conspiracy theory guy…who cares whether I use uppercase or lower case. I dont know how old you are so its a little hard to find a level playing field. But I was once part of a political group who attempted to break down a communist run union in Australia the Tramways Union where they insisted everyone of their workers should be a member of, but which our member resisted by working without joining their union…unfortunately they were dead serious and they caused the murder one of our members by name of Paul Krutulus who gets a little mention on the union internet as a right wing loony… Paul Krutulus also wanted to be free in a liberal free enterprise world only to be gunned down by union thuggery and pressures during the mid 1970′s. So please dont call me a communist or any other rude word unless you have done your REAL bit risk taking in the real world we live in. Nowadays one of Australia’s richest women is claimed to be a communist, but I dont see any evidence of her sharing her billions with the masses. You have no idea what your talking about when you label me a commo. We have a finacial reality today which cannot be solved with idealistic trollop. The OBAMA TEAM was elected and should be permitted to do what the PRESIDENT was elected to do…its not a matter of his colour …its a metter of keeping the train wreck from stopping altogether. Just you all put your reality thinking caps on and let the OBAMA TEAM do what they think is right….Who cares that our children will have to pay whatever price…let the next generation of educated work out the solution…the next generation will be mostly mexicans …let them pay…who cares..lol

        • Joe H.

          gillysrooms,
          And the republican and conservative congresspersons in office were voted in as well!! They are supposed to do exactly what they are doing, being a balance against the total rule of one group!! If you can not see that, then you should stay out of AMERICAN politics!!!

    • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

      I owe the world NOTHING I was screaming all these years to stop this crap,and I am a citizen of the United states of America, not the world, you can stick your one world gov. up yuor !!! I would rather be poor and a free american than rich and owned by someone else.

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms

        1911MAN, IF YOU WANT TO BE POOR, YOUR GETTING YOUR WISH AND YOU WILL STILL BE DOWNTRODDEN and your government for the people will be owned by others.

  • http://Wisesooth.PatriotActionNetwork.com/ Wisesooth

    The root of the problem lies within the US Senate. The US House has 22 budget-cutting bills that the (expletive omitted) Reid refuses to bring up before the Senate for consideration. As long as the Dems control the Senate, this fresh country air will continue. This supercommittee idea came from the Senate, not the House. It was jammed down their throats.

    Let’s keep our eyes on the ball. This supercommittee is unconstitutional and a Democrat scam. We need to educate the voters, especially the young people. Above all, we need to unite behind a true conservative candidate that can win the election. That means we must move our contributions to candidates that do not speak with a forked tongue. Who are they? Do not listen to what they say. Watch what they have done. That will give us a clue about their hidden intentions.

    • stand for the worker

      Well spoken, Wisesooth.

  • wendy

    Not to mention unconstitutional. The fraud in the WH and his faithful thugs around him and in the Congress wanted this to fail.

  • richard

    Why is there a ‘super committee’ deciding on spending when that is the work of the House of Representatives?

  • Iron Angel

    Lame is about all I can think of when anyone says congress, politicians or president. I will bet you and I have already started cutting our budget. Me a year ago, it’s simple cut anything that isn’t necessary. like cable or satellite or cable TV, going to movies, re-evaluating food choices and amounts. Cutting back on driving, consolidation of trips and many more. So can you tell me why this so-called super committee can’t get their act together. I just don’t believe anything they say anymore. The first step is to get the list out, the second step is to cut cut cut… useless idiots, all of them.

  • http://PersonalLivingDigest Ken from Colorado

    Couldn’t have said it better than Mr. Ringer. The Replobs seem like they are trying to give away this election.

  • Phil F

    The democrats didn’t want a deal, they want to be able to accuse the GOP for the Stupor Committee failure. The GOP offered up numerous solutions but the dumbocrats refused to look at any of them. The dumbocrats can blow their smoke all they want but they don’t have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem, aka addiction. It’s the wasteful spending, it’s always been the spending and it will continue to be the spending. Politicians maintain their power by spending other peoples money.

    • cincerely

      And that is why even Republicans are blaming the Republicans for refusing to raise taxes as reason for the super committee’s failure.

      Republicans laughed, literally, at the group of millionaires who urged them to raise taxes on millionaires.

      Wealthy congressmen seeking re-election are reluctant and/or unwilling to act against their own self-interest and that of their wealthy contributors in making decisions to balance the budget. That includes both parties.

      As for the DoD, they have never been audited. The military will defend every cent but there are wiser heads (a discussion on PBS with non-military experts) that recognize that there is a great deal of waste in the DoD budget.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      There has not been enough discussion about spending. Why on God’s green earth does the Federal Government need to spend over 24% of G.D.P.? Higher than any time since the end of World War II. There can be no justification to any sane individual, other than to destroy America.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        For those of you not educated in math that is really over spending of 25%, with fiat currency.

    • Thinking about

      Oh, so there was not any cuts offered? And look at all the tax reform and the large increase they bestowed upon the top wage earners. I forgot those top wage earners has created more jobs in the US than citizens available to take those jobs. And since those top wage earners have seen their salaries in the last several years and the lower wage earners are loosing or at least flat so they should be just too happy to pay more in taxes so those top wage earners could have more in which they could increase the economy. More wage earners equals more tax revenues, less wage earners, higher debt.

  • Larry

    This artical is the most honest forthright description of the game being played out in Washington. We who want to be considered as true reasonable citizens of this country are always put into the position of selecting the least evil and corrupted of our politicians as the Reblican candidates. It is getting to the point that I am willing to
    seriously consider becoming a liberal progressive because I will atleast know that when they get into office they will pursue their agenda without compromise and fear of repurcusions because of having that liberal socialist beliefs.

    • 45caliber

      You are right. To those in Washington this is entirely a “game”. They play it against each other and totally ignore what their acts are doing for the rest of us. We need people in Washington who aren’t playing games but trying to improve our country.

  • Lost in Paradise

    Why would the senate not at least listen to the ideas of the Tea Party? Instead they slapped them and us in the face, and gave us the boot. No one told them they would need to abide by what the Tea Party had to offer, just listen.

    I do not think they really are willing to balance the budget. They only want to spend money they do not have. I would really like someone tell me why they think Obama’s plan will create jobs, by spending money you do not have.

    C’mon you libs in here should be able to give me the straight dope on how to create something with nothing.

    I think all liberals need to move to Australia, as they have much undeveloped land there, and take Obama with you. I think the AUsies would really like a guy like OBama running things there.

    • 45caliber

      Lost: They CAN’T listen to the tea party – the tea party isn’t part of their Party. (Both sides.) They have their little game they are playing and ideas from outside interfer with their game. It’s like Monopoly, except they are using real dollars – taken from us.

  • Ron

    All I know is that if the American people again elect republodinks and or democraps for Any office, including president,they will be fulfilling all the requirements of insanity.(Doing the Same Thing over and over and expecting a different outcome! ! ) At that point I’m all DONE.I’ll be too discusted to give a sh** anymore.America as a whole will have proved they are too retarded to have any chance to get this all back on track and make this republic work like it was designed to do.

    • 45caliber

      If the rest of the world wasn’t in worse shape, I’d consider moving.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Think again. Take a look at Chile.

  • stand for the worker

    We MUST CUT SPENDING – ACROSS THE BOARD. NO EXCEPTIONS.
    Start with a 5 PERCENT CUT IN EVERY GOVERNMENTAL BUDGET and tell the affected programs, committees, beauracracies, ETC. – “Make do, and this is only for STARTS! NEXT YEAR YOU ARE GOING TO BE CUT ANOTHER 5 PERCENT!!”.

    CUT USELESS WASTES OF MONEY TO “AMTRAK, The Dept of (un)Education, (or rather The Dept. of Liberal Idoctrination).

    Trim down the very inefficient Post Office some more.

    Cut the EPA’s budget in half, because they have gone way beyond the bounds of reason. (Ex: Volunteer firefighters got surrounded by and were killed in recent wildfires because EPA REGULATIONS prevented helicopters from saving the volunteers. They were instructed to go much further to get their “drop water” because if they took it from the local stream they would endanger a FISH.) OVER regulation of Industry and commercial endeavors have stifled job production – and the economy.

    Bring in the flat tax – 8 or 10 percent across the board – AND NO MORE ! EVERYONE PAYS. Everyone has SKIN IN THE GAME !!!!
    By doing this you can ELIMINATE THE CONVOLUTED IRS AND IT’S TAX CODE.
    YOU NO LONGER NEED CPA’s AND TAX EXPERTS AND LAWYERS – JUST TO PAY YOUR TAXES !!

    The individual citizens have to make do with what they have – It’s time for Government TO LIVE WITHIN IT’S MEANS.

    WELFARE gets BIG CUTS. ONLY those who can show they are incapable of working and contributing to society are eligible for help. If you are not eligible – you will have a relatively SHORT TIME – perhaps 18 months to get a job. After that – NO MORE LAZY ASS FREE RIDES. EVERYONE HAS GOD-GIVEN GIFTS AND TALENTS – SO GUESS WHAT ?? YOU’RE GOING TO FIND OUT WHAT YOURS ARE !!! Novel idea huh ??

    Folks if we don’t buckle down and do something DRASTIC and SOON – THERE LITERALLY WILL NOT BE A SYSTEM OF WELFARE or ANYTHING ELSE. It is all in the process of IMPLODING. THE SOCIETY AS WE KNOW IT WILL NO LONGER EXIST. We are heading for a DEEP DEPRESSION.

    Brain-washed liberals who want to increase taxes and continue to increase government programs haven’t a clue !
    The whole thing is falling down around them and all they can do is cry for more of the same. REDISTRIBUTIONISM EVENTUALLY LOSES – BECAUSE ONCE YOU’VE RUN THE WORKING CLASS (AND THE JOBS) OUT OF THE COUNTRY – YOU WILL FIND THERE IS NOTHING ELSE TO TAKE – BUT YOU WILL STILL HAVE MILLIONS WHO ARE READY TO BURN THE CITIES TO THE GROUND IF THEY DON’T GET THEIR GOVERNMENT CHECK.

    What was that saying about giving a man a fish or a fishing pole ??

    • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gillysrooms

      What are you trying to do is suicidal in economic terms but cutting expenditure to save on taxes and get rid of your deficit will not work. Your economy is already a train wreck and your cutting solution will kill your economy dead in the water. In my view BANKRUPTCY IS THEAFT just as TAXATION IS THEFT and your nation will be bankrupt unless you permit your elected President OBAMA and his team of people do what they been wanting to do for months. If you were so bright wht dont you offer yourself as a candidate and sell the people voting your ideas at the next election, in the meantime let the President do his thing…Who cares if the next generation of Mexicans will be left with all your nations debts ….let them carry the can then…not us now which you so keen to have happen.

      • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

        you don’t know much about americans do you you once removed limey rooplonker, just because you sold out to the OWG doesn’t mean the american people want to,liberty or death has a meaning here, but, i guess you wouldn’t understand that.

  • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

    Wounder how Personal Liberty Digest subscribers would fair in those kinda polls?

    http://www.nationalmemo.com/article/can-watching-fox-news-make-you-dumber

    • Jibbs

      So, whats your excuse for knowing so little?

      • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

        I ask a simple question was that so hard to understand ?

        • JeffH

          sarge says DUH! As if you could even think that you could be taken seriously.

          • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

            DUH! great response
            Guess Farleigh Dickinson and the University of Maryland have a point

          • JeffH

            Farleigh who? NOT! DUH!

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    Attention,

    19 hours ago … One of the reasons why Congress has been largely unable to make the American … of the stranglehold lobbyists for special interests have on the institution. … Even if the six Republican and six Democrats who comprise the …
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wendell-potter/the-stranglehold-health-c_b_1106322.html

    • 45caliber

      And you believe huffington post????

  • JeffH

    Well folks, isn’t this just another example(of many)of Obama’s failure to lead this country.

    As I recall, it is POTUS Obama who asked for this “SUPERCOMMITIE”. For once I have to agree in part with Chris Matthews.

    Chris Matthews On Obama’s Leadership: ‘We Don’t Know What He Wants’

    Well, we have a very idea of what he wants, but his Marxist communit organizing trainers manual didn’t contain any chapters on “leadership” with the exception of the Pied Piper leading the rats to drown.

    Blame the Republicans or the Democrats, it doesn’t really matter who you blame…most all of them have something to lose.

    The Tea Party has the right idea and the mid-terms has made a bit of a difference in this fight, but 2012 will be the deciding factor in this countries future…continue to rebuild this constitutional republic or bow to the final creation of a socialist democracy.

    Vote Ron Paul 2012

    • JeffH

      Leadership Failures of Barack Obama
      http://thepurplemuse.com/id45.html

    • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68
      • JeffH

        Whoopy ding! Who else but someone(sarge)caught up in the two party paradigm cares whether it was a Republican or Democrat…
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU7iqC4qxW0

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          JeffH

          CNN:

          President Clinton announces another record budget surplus
          BUDGET SURPLUS

          September 27, 2000

          “President Clinton announced Wednesday that the federal budget surplus for fiscal year 2000 amounted to at least $230 billion, making it the largest in U.S. history and topping last year’s record surplus of $122.7 billion.”This represents the largest one-year debt reduction in the history of the United States,” Clinton said Wednesday morning. “Like our American athletes in Sydney, we’ve been breaking records and have come a long way.”In June, the administration predicted the surplus would be $211 billion, and would increase by as much as $1 trillion over the next 10 years.Clinton also announced the federal government paid down the national debt by $223 billion this year, and by more than $360 billion since 1998, the largest debt reduction in U.S. history.”The key to fiscal discipline is maintaining these results year after year. We need to put our priorities in order,” Clinton said.The president’s news comes as lawmakers on Capitol Hill continue to wrestle with the fiscal year 2001 budget numbers. The new budget year begins October 1, and Congress and the White House remain at odds over spending allocations.”I hope we will see a continuation of this trend in the final budget negotiations,” the president said. “I am concerned frankly about the size and last-minute nature of this year’s congressional spending spree.” Congress, Clinton said, has not adequately funded education programs, strengthened Medicare and funded other domestic priorities set forth by the administration.”These are the things that need to be done and I certainly hope they will be and still make the right investments and the right amount of tax cuts,” Clinton said.The president unveiled the new numbers in a statement at the White House, before departing for fund-raising events in Dallas and Houston.”This is part of our fiscal discipline to reduce the debt with the federal surplus,” said one White House official who asked not to be identified. Reducing the debt, the official said, has “real effects for real Americans.” It means lower interest rates for mortgages, car loans and college loans, and leads to an increase in investment and more jobs.”It is the third year in a row the federal government has taken in more than it spent, and has paid down the debt. The last time the U.S. government had a third consecutive years of national debt reduction was 1949, said the official.The federal budget surplus for fiscal year 1999 was 122.7 billion, and 69.2 billion for fiscal year 1998. Those back-to-back surpluses, the first since 1957, allowed the Treasury to pay down $138 billion in national debt”.

          • JeffH

            coal, believe what you will…CNN? As has been pointed out and posted many, many times…Clinton’s “record budget surplus” was nothing more than typical government slight of hand, ie, a myth…not surprised but glad to see you still believe it despite the evidence otherwise.

          • JeffH

            coal, please note the last sentance in your post “Those back-to-back surpluses, the first since 1957, allowed the Treasury to pay down $138 billion in national debt”….pay down? Says nothing about “aying off”, “eliminating” or “zeroing”…ever hear of political doublespeak? Just askin’?

          • Joe H.

            hey coal miner,
            I suggest you go to the GAO site where it states that clinton NEVER had a surplus!! He tried spending the same social security mony in two places at the same time!! THAT doesn’t work!!! Shake all that coal dust out of those cobwebs in your head!!!

      • JeffH

        Since President Obama took office the national debt is up 35% and unemployment is up 18%, yet he opposes real reforms that would get spending under control and our economy moving again.

        http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/10/conservative-group-puts-out-anti-obama-tv-ad/

        • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

          Could the deficit have been caused by two tax cut and one Corporate tax cut which produced no jobs (trickle down theory proved bogus)and then for the first time in our nations history two unfunded wars.
          What do you think , sorry what does FOX think ?

          • JeffH

            sarge…how many different ways can you say “baaaaahhhh”? One and you are very efficient at it!

          • eddie47d

            Sorry Sgt. Jeff doesn’t look beyond his own nose and is stuck on pause.

          • JeffH

            Well what do you know…here comes toilet paper(eddie)wiping up the rear…

  • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

    JeffH
    Here are two of your resent postings they contradict each other ?

    Whoopy ding! Who else but someone(sarge)caught up in the two party paradigm cares whether it was a Republican or Democrat…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU7iqC4qxW0

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/10/conservative-group-puts-out-anti-obama-tv-ad/

    • JeffH

      Sorry sarge, I get it, unfortunately you don’t…nice try though

  • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68
  • Thinking about

    There are members of Congress who have held office for years and they could either be part of the solution or part of the problem. Up steps two new members of Congress, namely Rubio and Coons, they work together and find common ground, look for solutions and could probably work together to reunite this great nation. Should new members be the leaders, yes in this case. Back all the old members who have been bought and paid for by special interest you want, they are not winners. I think I see the heros stepping up, Rubio and Coons deserve praise and we need to unite behind them.

  • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

    JeffH

    You just keep proving the point about FOX

    sarge…how many different ways can you say “baaaaahhhh”? One and you are very efficient at it!

    Could the deficit have been caused by two tax cut and one Corporate tax cut which produced no jobs (trickle down theory proved bogus)and then for the first time in our nations history two unfunded wars.
    What do you think , sorry what does FOX think ?
    Reply

    JeffH says:
    November 22, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    • JeffH

      sarge, no matter what your spin might be, Fox, NPR or some poll by a guy named Farleigh…the bell attached to your collar still makes that tingle sound and your feet still remain firmly planted at the government trough…baaaahhhh, baaaahhhh, baaaahhhh!

      FYI did you realise that the food Nazi, Michelle Obama, was loudly booed at an event down in Florida this past weekend? Just askin’? :)

      • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

        jeffh
        If you would have bothered to open the link you would have seen that Farleigh is not a guy; it’s Farleigh Dickinson University. Stop;
        all you keep doing is proving the poll was on the money.

        sarge, “no matter what your spin might be, Fox, NPR or some poll by a guy named Farleigh”

        • JeffH

          Ahhhh, but sarge, that’s where you err. I did open it…but then again you, much like many liberls, tend to believe your own delusions as fact or truth.

          Colonel Faileigh Dickinson also was the founder of the Fairleigh Dickinson College. In 1942, he used his wealth to found Farleigh Dickinson College, which is today Fairleigh Dickinson University.

          • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

            jeffh

            Colonel Faileigh Dickinson died in 1996 so he had no part in the poll also the founder was Peter Sammartino who names the collere after the Colonel Keep going this is becoming fun

            Colonel Faileigh Dickinson also was the founder of the Fairleigh Dickinson College. In 1942, he used his wealth to found Farleigh Dickinson College, which is today Fairleigh Dickinson University.

          • JeffH

            sarge, actually schooling liberals like yourself starts to get a little bit boring, but glad to see you find it entertaining…as well as enlightening.

        • JeffH

          Just an FYI sarge, if I had not opened the link as you so incorrectly assumed, how then would I have come up with a name like Farleigh(correctly spelled Fairleigh)? Luck maybe? I guess I better go get my lottery ticket before my luck runs out. :)

          Maybe you have another NPR link that mighte provide an clue to that question or, at least, that can explain this R/D paradigm you have so embraced?

          • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

            jeffh
            That’s the best you can do a miss spelling WOW good job it only took you 5 posts

            “Just an FYI sarge, if I had not opened the link as you so incorrectly assumed, how then would I have come up with a name like Farleigh(correctly spelled Fairleigh)”

          • JeffH

            sarge, keep grabbin’…sooner or later you might catch something but hot air seems to be you prize catch today.

            Seems Farleigh(ie-Fairleigh) was a real person afterall.

            FYI, I see how you handle molehills… :) Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to get back to my FAUX(FOX)news so I have something other than my guns to cling too…

  • James

    Like I have said, the Super Committee is not going to balance the budget. If they can’t cut $1.2 trillion from the budget, over a ten year period, then they will never balance the budget. Even if the automatic cuts kick in, that will never balance the budget either. Thedollar will be inflated out of existence, like all paper money eventually does. Congress has to either cause millions of Amricans to starve or ruin the dollar, which would you do?

  • Kevin Beck

    Seriously, did anyone really think the Stupid-Committee would achieve its stated goal?

    From the beginning, I didn’t think there would be a chance to get 12 reality-impaired members of Congress to agree on a common plan to reduce the annual budget deficit, let alone their accumulated debt. This was a plan destined for disaster, just like every other such plan dreamed up by morons that don’t want to get us out of their disasters.

    The farce was obvious from the start: If the problem was meant to be solved, the appointees would have first been able to agree on what the problem was! Instead, half were dead-set on the idea that they weren’t stealing enough from the citizens, and the other half was mired in the belief that they could reduce proposed spending ten years out, but couldn’t set aside anything from this year!

    This is only going to work if there is common agreement on the problem, and the problem is defined correctly. Since there are too many interests represented, a workable solution that satisfies everyone (or even half of everyone) will never happen.

  • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

    jeffh

    Booing let’s see Sarah Palin, both Presidents Bush, President Ronald Reagan, etc,etc have all been booed so your point is?

    FYI did you realise that the food Nazi, Michelle Obama, was loudly booed at an event down in Florida this past weekend? Just askin’?

    • JeffH

      sarge, unless your just plain stupid, you know exactly what the point was…kinda gets under your skin doesn’t it… :)

      • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

        jeffh
        The point the poll’s by both University were dead on

        • JeffH

          sarge, “dead on”? Excuse me while I LMAO!…and not with you either.
          Then again, I see you rely heavily on NPR as your “fair & balanced” resource…LMAO!

          • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68

            jeffh

            It’s OK not to understand

            sarge, “dead on”? “Excuse me while I LMAO!…and not with you either.
            Then again, I see you rely heavily on NPR as your “fair & balanced” resource…LMAO!”

          • JeffH

            LOL! I understand completely.

  • http://www.toonthenews.com/ Santiago

    Super Committee is a Super Failure! Cartooned!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKayvVF5qHU

  • Karolyn

    Email I got with Warren Buffett’s advice – Congressional Reform

    “I could end the deficit in 5 minutes,” he told CNBC. “You just
    pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more
    than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible
    for re-election.

    The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds)
    took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple!
    The people demanded it. That was in 1971 – before computers, e-mail,
    cell phones, etc.

    Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took one (1) year
    or less to become the law of the land – all because of public pressure.

    Warren Buffet is asking each addressee to forward this email to
    a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask
    each of those to do likewise.

    In three days, most people in The United States of America will
    have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed
    around.

    _*Congressional Reform Act of 2011*_

    1. No Tenure / No Pension.

    A Congressman/woman collects a salary while in office and receives no
    pay when they’re out of office.

    2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social
    Security.

    All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the
    Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into
    the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the
    American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

    3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all
    Americans do.

    4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise.
    Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

    5. Congress loses their current health care system and
    participates in the same health care system as the American people.

    6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the
    American people.

    7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen/women are void
    effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this
    contract with Congressmen/women.

    Congressmen/women made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in
    Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
    envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their
    term(s), then go home and back to work.

    If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will
    only take three days for most people (in the U.S.) to receive
    the message. Don’t you think it’s time?

    THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!

  • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68
  • SMSgt Z (ret) Nam 68
    • Joe H.

      Sarge,
      You DO know that NPR stands for Non Productive Resource, don’t you???

  • iam

    “…Republicans always give in…”

    You have pinpointed something that I have said for decades. Republicans are gutless, spineless, weak-kneed cowards who believe that “compromise” means “let the Democrats have anything they want so they will say we have been bi-partisan, even if we never get anything we want.”

    • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS

      The only issue the Republicans will agree with the Democrates is to increase their already high salaries and pension schemes, but when it comes to helping the majority of the nation stay in jobs ..it ditters and complains of the taxes and high cost to the budget. Where is the honesty in purpose ?

      • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

        your one to call the kettle black, all you’ve been doing is whining about losing investment money, sounds to me like your just as bad.

        • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS

          America runs on money, you run on money. Money is the oxygen everyone wants to get things done. A free economy runs on money. Insurance runs on money. You my friend appear to have little knowledge or understanding on the role and value of keeping your countrys word to repay what your country has borrowed from the rest of the world including Australia. Your Republicans seem to think it a game in stop the money supply to appease people like you who believe in balanced budgets after years of borrowing and printing your way through a very good lifestyle, but because you now have a slightly tanned President you want to blame Obama for ALL your financial woes by stopping the money supply during his watch. The Republicans are going to make a lot of the already wealthy traders even more money with the girations of the stockmarkets going up or down everytime the Republicans leave decisions to the wire. The Republicans appear to be the dishonest scounderals during the current meltdown of your economy and the main cause, so your gold dealers can make more money, so your derivatives traders can have more opportunities to speculate on what the Republicans will do next to stuff up your economy. Your republicans will have fat pensions when they retire, but will the rest of your voters be in the same position when they retire if all their pension funds are bankrupt?

          • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

            incorrect, you are talking about false money, according to the fed, all working americans owe the gov. roughly$ 50,000 , I never agreed to this scheme or to this faux money and have been voicing my opposition to said agreements to accept said faux money.If the gov. went against the peoples wishes, which they have, remember, the majority of people didn’t want this spending based on borrowed money to happen therefore the illeagle money dealings should never have happened. If you want to hold someone responsible then you should look to the people in power who went ahead with this spending spree against the will of the people of this country, and not that it matters, but that is not the republicans, they dont hold power . and in case you want to blame bush, I distinctly remember that he waited until pres. elect obama requested him to go ahead with this mess before he gave the ok.to start TARP. as far as gold and derivitive traders go they have been using loopholes made available to them by unscrupulos people in both parties run by the OWG people. dont blame the american people for the acts of these people or get mad at us because we are tired of playing their game of manipulating the worlds monies using individual govts, monitary laws and regulations against them.

          • http://personalliberty,com 1911man

            what I was trying to say here is I look at this kind of like I.D. theft, the majority of people in this country didn’t want this spending but the govt. went ahead and did it anyway, I don’t beleive the people should be held responsible for the debt as a person who has debt incurred because of I.D. theft shouldn’t be held to that debt thats what I ment by false money.

  • Mad Max

    Nothings going to change until we change.

    We have to stop thinking small or we will never get anywhere.
    “We Are Free”
    http://WeAreFree.osixs.org
    Wake—-Up! It’s time to throw off the chains…

  • actions not words

    I have never been in this forum before. nor do I believe that any one or the other party is completely to blame for the disaster we are faced with today. I do know that (in my opinion) it sounds alot like the blame game even between concerned citizens. I don’t believe that finding the exact reasons and who is to blame at this point would change anything. It may give us a starting point when it comes to the next election but then again the candidates would just become better liars. Not to mention that all held positons would have to be changed for a third party? At this point I would have to say that so much is needed to be fixed and monitored that moving toward a totalitarian or dictatorship type government might be the only way to actually move toward resolve (in an immediate fashion) which is urgently needed. Before you all jump at me understand that I don’t believe that any man has enough moral fiber to be in control without reproach. Which brings us to the point of lobbying(bribing in a real sense) should not be allowed in politics and anyone caught doing so should be removed immediately. Contributions should be made to funds without earnotes and without thank yous. Perhaps our time would be better spent using some tactics of the past to make our nation stronger. I don’t agree with all the regulation of FDR but keeping people busy is something that our nation could really use right now. How much resource is in an old, empty manufacturing building? how much pollution is along our highways? In our waters? The same money that is being spent on unemployment could gather some of our waste and finds ways to renew and reuse. Is their really a cause for space exploration now? Do we need more land? More water to pollute? How do you create jobs? NASA employs some of the most intelligent people on the planet. Redirect their efforts towards revamping social security programs so that all expired numbers get crossed referenced and determine where identity theft is being actuated. set up tasks forces, again from the unemployed or fake SSI claimants, to get rid of illegals that are stealing american jobs. How about buy AMERICAN only! Outlaw imports. They have made enough money thanx to US already. I realize that alot of company’s here are of foriegn origin and if they don’t like the new ways they can go back. plain and simple we have to collectively find some solutions that are lateral in spending but at the same time increasing the GNP. I’m not claiming that any ideas here would be easy to accomplish or that they would even make a difference. But I do know that if we don’t collectively start doing something or coming up with ways to end this crisis we are all going down no matter what party your behind. Or who is to blame!!!

    • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS

      Looks like some of my ideas are being read …Jerry is making some real contributions to this forum now. Any more ideas?

      • actions not words

        I believe that the first steps are already being taken. Gathering voices to insist we be heard. This in it self is a huge undertaking. How many have to become involved before serious concern becomes respect? Do you think 30 million voices would be heard? That’s only 10%,what we are led to believe is the unemployment rate. Would that be enough concern? I doubt it. So double it? No. I think we have to be the majority, so 150+ million voices need to be heard? Of the population their are many who are really no different than what stalls the gov’t. Split between basically two parties each holding true to that ship(or the self benefit of)) even though history shows us that one really isn’t any better than the other as far as the concerns of the citizens. When and if occupy’s are ever taken serious, there is another huge problem. Who will represent this group of people? With all it’s different concerns, how would this group decide on specifics of change or demands? Are they going to try a bill or an amendment? No one knows at this point. personally I think making a change to the constitution regarding lobbying would help greatly. Since gov’t doesn’t like telling business what to do, maybe consideration should be taken by the occupy to raise the min wage close to $10 an hour or above. How about a complete medical rehaul. Changing from a “keep them sick” (big pharma money) viewpoint.. to a reward them for wellness socialized health plan. That’s what is working for other countries. Of course then the next step is going thru legislation,that isn’t working for the people now! So what? a national vote by vote tally, which the government would have to agree too.? Then who starts getting paid? Does the 1% taint the vote by buying law enforcement votes? Union votes? Armed forces votes? Believe me they don’t want these changes or they would already be done, so someboby will be getting kick backs from a possible vote to end kickbacks? WE have a very BIG problem here people and basically it’s self centered greed. “If it benefits me I’m ok with it” mentality. Simply put by Mad Max nothing is going to change until (and I add) enough of us change. This can’t be governed! hell it can’t even be taught. Wanting more $$, land, cattle, crops, vacation days, personal leave, love, understanding, attention, help, etc has been forever and is now a HUGE undying monster!! So you ask me do I have any ideas? Yep I got a few, but until humanity is actually being humane I doubt any will apply!!

    • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS

      I meant …Actions not words

      • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

        the only “ideas’ i’ve seen you spout is for Americans to bend over and let obama and his cronies to have their way.

        • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS

          Take it like a man…lol

          • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

            You might volentary take that crap but I will fight to my last breath.

          • Joe H.

            Like YOU guys did, gilly????

  • jerry sweet

    we have had it people and GOD is going to show us kicking him out was a very stupid move.freedoms that were fought and died to gain and to preserve was a very precious thing.well guess what.slavery is coming at us like an out of control down hill freight train.we will find out our protection came from GOD and he protected us,even all the Godless CHRIST hating mob running things (LAUGHING) now.what a joke they could’nt run a lawn mower.but with him on the sidelines for a short while they smell blood,our blood.not the blood of freedom but they want slaves.you see they have become legends in their own minds and want to rule the world.they will be allowed to play for a short while but will in the end pay a terrifying price for their rebellion. if you dont know Christ in a personal way,his death and resurrection and the free gift of eternal life you will not survive.God is still on the throne and the latest crop of greedy selfish Godhaters will pay a terrible price,unless they too repent.hells fires will burn forever.get in or get thrown, its your choice.i settled it a long time ago and live in perfect peace,even watching my beloved country die right before my eyes.oh i dont mean all the stupid religious crap on tv.they are for the most part just as selfish and greedy as the beltway mob.i mean a real relationship with the Creator.btw the evolutionists are not completely wrong.GOD spoke and bang we happened.trust him today,he loves you,but his very nature demands justice.HE is holy and we are carnal,HE hates sin and will someday,now sooner than ever before destroy it forever.hitler,stalin mao castro,obama,they all will bow before Christ and confess HE is LORD.make you choice now ,you only get this one lifes chance.there will not be another one if you die without HIM>for those who scoff at this ,well thats sad.if God could take a vile biker wretch like me and forgive me, he surely can you.let him in he is just a request away.

    • beacon

      Born again. is just a begining of other things to come.

      You will find, religion is man made, spirituality God given.

      Whatch for bannana peels on the way.

      Been there done that and still growing.

      Take care.

  • jerry sweet

    well said beacon.becoming born again is loosely used today,i prefer to call my self a diciple of Jesus Christ.i hate all religions all of them.also those banana peels are coming at us hot and slippery.hang in there we have already one

  • jerry sweet

    i mean we win not one,see iam not perfect at all just forgiven!!!

  • http://personalliberyt.com 1911man

    when abriham found out that lots family were carried off to be enslaved did he just sit on his rump, or did he get up and do something about it and regain their freedom? are we just supposed to sit by and watch our country die? if it’s Gods will our country will fall then it will be so, but, I don’t beleive we are to sit down and do nothing,try nothing,to save this gift given to mankind.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms

    THATS WHY YOU HAVE PRESIDENTS AND PARLIAMENTS TO CARRY THE CAN. THE VOTERS VOTE AND THE WINNER ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOOERS. UNFORTUNATELY, NOT EVERYBODY IS REQUIRED TO VOTE IN YOUR COUNTRY. WHY, ARNT YOUR VOTERS EDUCATED ENOUGH TO VOTE YET?

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