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The Stealth System

November 23, 2009 by  

The Stealth System

According to Webster’s Third International Dictionary, “stealth” means, “something stolen,the act or action of proceeding secretly or imperceptibly.”

And according to Black’s Law Dictionary 6th Edition, stealth means, “secret or the act of stealing when the victim is unaware of the theft. Any secret, sly or clandestine act to avoid discovery and to gain entrance into or to remain within residence of another without permission.”

In my view, stealth needs further definition. Stealth should be categorized as being in existence where there is total unawareness by the victim(s). Also, stealth should be characterized as being secretly operative over very long periods of time, so as to be sacrosanct and institutionalized.

An example is the Federal Reserve and its companion, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). Time bestows legitimacy. This means that millions of people are born into the system who never question its legitimacy, legality or morality.

The more generations that pass the more entrenched the stealth. So again, time bestows legitimacy and suffocates inquiry. The people who understand stealth can understand government and predict the future.

This, my friends, is a very, very small number of people. It is my prayer that all the readers of Personal Liberty Digest will understand stealth as soon as possible. If so, you will be translated from the frivolous to reality.

The work-a-day world consumes the crowd. They have so much noise in their lives that they have neither the time nor the imperative to understand monetary realism and the legalized and official theft that is undermining every vestige of their lives and their future.

The stealth system of “legal” theft has been in place in the U.S. since the establishment of the Federal Reserve and the IRS in 1913. Neither is legal, but neither can be investigated and reversed. (Ask yourself why, even with 311 co-sponsors on the 435-member House of Representatives, Ron Paul’s bill to audit the Federal Reserve—H.R. 1207—has not been voted on, nor has the Senate’s companion bill—S. 604—which has 30 co-sponsors.)

We are on a fiat paper money dollar system and all who earn dollars and save dollars have depreciating currency with depreciating assets. This depreciating currency (inflation of prices) slowly reduces the value of their savings and their standard of living. The middle class destruction is in full view to anyone who has the wisdom to look.

The stealth system has a cover of very sophisticated propaganda. Trust in the system guarantees the propaganda cover. People who trust the system never inquire past the propaganda and that is by far the majority; but, hopefully, that is not you.  

The system operates on the certainty that the crowd will believe the propaganda cover. If the crowd stopped believing the propaganda, the stealth system would collapse and human liberty would return. If the stealth system were to collapse, the vast army of parasites—people like lawyers, doctors, accountants, etc.—would have to find honest work. Oh, they are not all bad, but most are.

How do we escape the system of stealth? Start believing just the opposite of all political, economic and geopolitical pronouncements. This alone will catapult you into reality. If the trauma is too severe, return to slavery. You will be welcomed to become a “taxpayer” again.

The key to understanding propaganda: Governments never allow individual or media attacks on the esoteric monetary system i.e. the Federal Reserve and the IRS.

The stealth system knows the propaganda value of phony opposition. Feigned opposition as in political parties keeps the simple blinded and all debate is on spurious issues. Decoys are as important to the stealth system as they are to duck hunters. Spurious debate is a constant diversion. It is noise.

The most educated, professional and sophisticated thinkers are conditioned and limited unless and until they escape the stealth parameters of thought. Until we believe that reality is outside the box, we can do no better than frivolity, diversion and self deception.

We can never know cause and effect. When you encounter an educated fool, escape as fast as possible lest you be tainted with his nonsense.

People who never question authority, custom and tradition are unthinking fools.

You Are a Taxpayer
You are a taxpayer if you earn or save dollars. You are involved in coin clipping.

Coin clipping refers to the old gold and silver coins in regimes that had not discovered paper money. They could not print new gold coins so people would clip off small amounts and melt them into new coins. This of course is a less seductive form of currency depreciation.

But today every new dollar printed dilutes those dollars already in existence. So you pay taxes to the extent of currency depreciation that most see as price inflation at the grocery store. More stealth!

Taxpayers are not just those who fill out tax returns and write checks to the IRS.

Money printing is a stealth tax paid by all who deal in dollars. No, it’s not public policy, it’s stealth policy, never announced and never admitted, and especially never to the media.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Vic Bailey, Auburn, Georgia

    That is what is considered voluntary compliance, to government rule. This socialist government has been in the making for 150 years. Everybody will have to come together to put an end to the TYRANNY that Jefferson warned us about.

    • DaveH

      Very true Vic.

      • http://conmcast newton king

        Filing personal income tax is voluntary,that is why they send you a miranda warning with your forms (privacy act and paperwork reduction act). You may notice that the tax code only applies to “the Tax payer”.

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          Newton,

          Subtle (not)….yet very well said!

          Fed Up Gal

          • http://conmcast newton king

            Why be subtle, they are violating the law. they make people believe they are liable when they aren’t. they put people in jail for “failure to file” when no such law exist. the federal government has no authority to try anyone for any crime that happens within a states borders except for treason, counterfieting, piracy on the high seas, crimes committed in washington,dc or on a government property. read and learn more about your constitution. too many normal citizens do not know or read this very important document that is so important to us. government knows this and goes well out of the authority granted to them by it. read article 1, section 8, the only powers granted to congress to spend money. it does not include earmark, health care or the thousands of other things they raid the treasury for.

          • Fed Up Gal in NM

            Newton,

            I was actually agreeing with most of your comment….just doing it in a humorus way…or so I thought. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.

            Fed Up Gal

          • http://conmcast newton king

            No problem.

        • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Marty

          To Richard Pawley: Thank you, Richard, for your reply. My 89 year old disabled Mom lives with me and I am old enough now to have osteo problems that keep me from doing many of the things I took so for granted up until several years ago. Now, I must hire certain things to be done and we are both on
          limited income. The house was paid for until my only sister became gravely ill with an undiagnosed
          illness and could no longer work. So, I borrowed 50% of the house value and gave it to her as her half
          of Mom’s house (with Mom’s permission) to live on until she could hopefully work again. She has her own home but due to an unscrupulous contractor who removed a support wall, her house was virtually imploding from within, so now she is in debt for more than the house is worth and cannot sell it without walking away, still owing debt on it. My point s that we now do not even have a safe haven of a roof over our heads as things you are describing come into being. We are a very small family and there are only we 3 women and my daughter who lives in Los Angeles with her husband. She is a photographer who does headshots for aspiring actors and that is the only place she can work successfully. My son-in-law is a stock broker, but a recent one, and is taking 3 courses currently in hopes of completing his bachelors within a year. They rent and do not own a home. I work for my daughter, booking her appointments, even though I live outside of Atlanta about 45 miles away from the big city. She lives in the hills just outside of Beverly Hills. Needless to say, I am panicked when I even think of the possibilities of an earthquake. When all happens that you discussed yesterday, both my daughter and son-in-law, and I will no longer be gainfully employed. My sister will not be able to hold on to her house and we make payments of $700 a month on this small rock house my grandfather built. From all I read etc., I doubt that there will be enough work for all 3 of us (if my sister ever can get back to work) to even make the house payments. My daughter is an honest and extremely good person, but she is not a Christian as are my Mom and, most recently, my sister. I have all the right beliefs and I know my Bible, having been raised in the church, but I have never given my heart to Jesus so I am in trouble there also. I could not sleep last night as Icontemplated the future for myself and our small family. My son-in-law has some investments butI don’t know how much and he firmly believes all the Obama hype, no matter how much info I send to him. It looks to me that we will end up homeless when all is said and done. My saintly Mom prays all the time and my sister prays as well.

          I know this is about my personal stuff, but I imagine there are a lot of people out there wondering
          some of the same things I am. Will we be homeless when there are no jobs? If the bank takes our
          homes and property, how will that help them in the long run? If we have “horded” food staples, etc.,
          how long will we be without food and staples….from then on, til the end? Does anyone know? I can’t
          seem to “wrap my mind” around the possibilities of all this as it is so foreign to anything I have ever
          known. Always before, if I had a financial difficulty, I just figured out a way to increase income to over-
          come it as the opportunities were always there if you wanted them. Prayer is needed, I know, lots of
          prayer, but I wish we had some answers so we will know what to expect….or maybe it is impossible for
          anyone to know the answers? Oh, we do have enough clear land, about 2/3 acre to have a healthy
          garden and I have ordered the seeds advertised on the internet.

          Thanks for reading this, if you have managed to find the time from what I imagine is a very busy
          schedule.

          • DaveH

            Marty,
            My heart goes out to you. I hope your problems get worked out. This is the bind that Big Government has put many of us in.
            It may be too late for us, but still we should do everything we can to reverse the size of our resource-draining Government so our children and grandchildren can have a better life.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          It is a fact that its not a law to pay them. But it is also a fact that if you dont pay them, you go to jail for it. So in knowing this, you tell me how I can not pay taxes, and not get in trouble. This sir, Im sure all of us would like to know. Please, advise us.

          • http://conmcast newton king

            several years ago the director of the IRS was asked what would happen if one million people did not file their taxes. his reply was -we would shut down, we would be out of business. one person refusing to file would be charged, they don’t have room for millions. go to the library, fid a copy of the irscoe, title 26, and read the “law” start at 6000. about 6012 and after it will tell you if you don’t file, irs will make an assesment for you-”and if signed by the taxpayer, it can be used as an assesment” sound voluntary?

  • http://shot2005@netzero.com charlotterice

    Dear Sirs;
    The White House belongs to WE THEE PEOPLE, the “government” works for WE THEE PEOPLE. Since we are paying salaries for over 44 unelected,unconfirmed czars and their staffs, that have unchecked regulatory and fiduciary powers over foreign and domestic policies,destroy our representation and the checks and balances, circumvent congress and answer only to Obama–next time there is a march on DC ][and it had better be soon] WE THEE PEOPLE need to march to the White House and ‘fire’ all of the Czars! Does anyone recall what Sadam Hussein did once he had his ‘shadow government ‘in place?He executed those already in power.
    If you think we can straighten things up in an election, think again. The Corrupt ,tax payer funded ACORN organization ,SEIU and the Black Panthers Obama’s Brown Shirts] will not allow another honest election. WE THEE PEOPLE need to be standing right behind the senators when they cast their votes for thee Marxist bills of Obama’s–right in the room with them. Remember WE SURROUND THEM-THERE ARE MORE OF US THEN THEM!
    If we do not take serious action soon we can say goodbye to our sovereignty! Our troops have fought and died in foreign countries to keep Communism out of America and we are sitting by allowing a Marxist [president?] to appoint them to high offices.He won’t even support the troops we have in harms way today.He prefers to apologize for America, play footsie with dictators and insult our allies—allies that are waiting to see what the citizens are going to do! Do we hand Obama/Reid/Pelosi our liberties and sovereignty on a silver platter or fight to keep our country safe for our children.
    First they came for the banks, finance industries,auto industries.We said nothing.Then they went for the media, our water rights, our oil/coal rights–we said nothing, they indoctrinated our children, we said nothing. Now they are coming for us and there will be noone with the spine to fight back.We either hang together or certainly we will hang seperately.
    Charlotte Rice

    • bbstacker

      Half the population think that the gov’t has it’s “own” money. I guess their tiny brains assume that somewhere in the vast spaces of the United States there is a super colossal lemonade stand selling by the tanker to generate government money. Since 1913, the slow boil of losing our American soul of independence and personal sovereignty has been ongoing through taxation. We can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a place to live and lose it for a few thousand in unpaid taxes–this point was made clear to me not too long ago, and it drove the point home that we live and die by the taxes that this nation has allowed to be levied upon every Citizen–because the Citizens let it happen. Can we get back to the Federal Republic of the Constitution? Can we successfully wake up the lemmings who think that some “feral” government bureacrat is going to really be concerned about the welfare of that individual vs. just keeping them ignorantly happy so they vote for the bureacrat? Many have no idea of how hard they must work for themselves to survive, while just as many understand exactly the blood, sweat and tears that it takes to get 24 hours down the road.

  • John

    The Income Tax was never legally ratified. There I said it! Gutless Americans for generations is hardly Stealth. Face it, our founding fathers were better people than we are. We dont deserve freedom.

    • DaveH

      LOL. I wish I could disagree with that. But we are waking up finally.

    • Raggs

      John are you nut’s?
      The government may have you brainwashed to think that way.
      You are correct about the founders however, We as a nation are heading away from what they had intended this country to be.
      This is the whole problem in a nut shell hence the reason for this topic. Government management of our lives is not the answer to your problems it is the problem itself!!!!

      • DaveH

        Raggs,
        He is just saying that we made our own bed due to apathy. He is right.

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          Dave and Raggs,

          Excellent points!

          Fed Up Gal

          • Fed Up Gal in NM

            Dave…Raggs…and John,

            Oooops! Sorry for any confusion. I meant to include John on my reply. I think Dave’s point about John’s comment regarding America’s apathy was right. I think you’re all saying pretty much the same thing (as best I can tell).

            Fed Up Gal

  • shon

    Dave H: you seem to have gone quiet. I want to be sure you understand that I AGREE WITH YOU! (Scarily, on every post you have made on this forum. We are on the same side.

    Your post: “Anyway, that was over 20 years ago and I have snow-skied, jet-skied, backpacked, and other strenuous activities countless times and my knee has been just fine.
    I guess my main point in telling people this story is not to dis doctors but to illustrate the power of money when it comes to making medical decisions. If I had health insurance which would have paid for the operation, I probably would not have made the decision to pursue my own solution to the knee problem. That is one of the many reasons (health insurance) that our medical costs are so high. And most of the others are government involvement in medical care.” exactly hit the nail on the head. That is why medical care costs so much. Most people do not directly pay anything for their healthcare, so they don’t care what it costs. (I know, we all pay in taxes and insurance premiums and increased cost of goods, but when you go to the doctor, insurance/Medicare/the government the bill). Dave H, you are the perfect example, admitting that if you had health insurance, you probably would not have made the decision to pursue your own solution to the knee problem. People need a vested interest. Everybody needs to pursue their own solution to every problem. More government intervention is a giant leap in the wrong direction, as you so eloquently have stated. The government needs to get out of our lives and let us make our own decisions.

    • Don Rowberry

      Stealth, pretty much sums up the process of how the liberty train is running off the rails.

      To help put it back on track, face up to reality and read:

      The Creature From Jekyll Island,A Second Look At The Federal Reserve – by G. Edward Griffin.

      And, the daddy of them all: ATLAS SHRUGGED by Ayn Rand.

      Happy Thanksgiving day, from New Zealand .I am flying your first American flag today -The BETSY ROSS.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        Don,

        I’m assuming you’re from New Zealand (not visiting). I think it’s amazing that folks from other countries seem to get it quicker than we here in America. I’m agree with diane elizabeth….Thanks for your thoughts….and for your Thanksgiving holiday greeting!

        Fed Up Gal

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I noticed that also. I guess maybe those on the outside looking in can see it clearer.

      • Lynda the wize

        Thanks Don for your help and the Holiday wish :). I have lived in England and I know that what goes on in our country USA is seen better by Countries outside of our borders.
        Take care

  • DaveH

    Consider that all Congressmen swear to uphold the Constitution. If you read it carefully you will see that the Federal Government has absolutely no authority by the Constitution to take over our Health Care System. The Constitution is just a few pages long. Is it possible they haven’t read it? Most of them are lawyers. Could they possibly have law degrees and not know the Constitution? Have they read the 2000 page Health Care Bill which will be a draconian takeover of our Health Care System? Whatever the party you belong to, if you believe in law and order then you should understand that we need to put all of these purposeful law-breakers out of a job. They should get jail time, but I will settle for booting them out.

    • DaveH

      The Constitution of the United States:
      http://www.cato.org/pubs/constitution/constitution_en.html

    • http://conmcast newton king

      You can be sure the congress has not read the constitution and understood it. very few people have read it and fewer understand it and how important it is. no one asks politicians if they read the constitution and that is the first question they should be asked when they run for office. they should be required to read it before any votes to see if they have the authority to pass the law.
      Most of them don’t even understand this country has a Republic form of government.

      • DaveH

        I just got a mailer from my very Liberal Congresswoman touting that she is bringing “Fiscal Discipline to Washington”. This woman has voted for almost every spending bill to come before the House including the Health Care Bill. It’s incredible that she has the gall to portray herself as being for fiscal discipline. This is what we’re up against, folks. These politicians will spin the truth any which way to pull the wool over our eyes. It is up to us to go to the Congressional sites and see how they are really voting.
        I will do everything in my power to make her a one-termer in 2010.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          The dont just spin the truth, they out and out lie, and any one who pays attention to this just a little bit, knows when they are lying. Mostly when their lips move.

    • eyeswideopen

      Dave, the Republicans are too busy taking their oath to not ever raise taxes no matter what the situation, to read the Constitution. Our only fix for every fiscal problem is to reduce taxes. Not a wise action when you are involved in two wars. Also not to smart to pass an unfunded Medicare bill to the tune of 900 billion dollars in 2003, right after declaring war. Raising taxes to pay for war is one of the few times it is justified. Did anyone consider that debt that we were passing on to the children? Don’t think so.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Hey dipstick, it is the solution to fiscal problems to cut taxes, you big dummy. More money comes into the tax coffers when taxes are cut, than comes in when they are raised. What part of that dont you understand?

        • eyeswideopen

          Beberoni, you make no sense. That’s all the effort, I will waste on your uneducated statement. You make no sense.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Well check this out, Ill fill you in. When you tax the crap out of business’s, they have to put aside a certain large amount of cash to pay the tax bills, ok? You follow me? Now, lets use my business I work for, just for instance here. We are an electrical contractor, with 85 guys. We were 60 guys, but when Bush implemented his tax cuts, with the money we saved on not paying tax, we hired 25 new guys. So now youve got 25 guys making a paycheck, paying federal tax, state tax, local tax, social security tax, medicare tax. They are spending money at stores, paying for houses, generating money for those business’s, who pay tax on the money they make. Plus youve got 25 more people not collecting government handouts, and 25 more people working to build other business’s, schools, and hospitals and industrial buildings, that in turn will have people working, and paying taxes. Is it coming clear to you yet? But see, now that Obama is in there, business’s stop investing in themselves and building buildings at the rate they were, because they know they need cash to pay the democratic tax monsters, because admit it, its the truth, the first thing they do is up taxes, every stinking time. Now they also have announced quite awhile ago, that they will be rescinding the Bush tax cuts in 2010. Well, because of this democratic action, all 25 of these hires have had to be laid off, so that we can free up the cash to pay the new higher taxes Barack and the democrats levied on us, and yes, they did raise the taxes on this small business, and thousands of others. Millions have lost their jobs because of this, and millions more to come in 2010 when the tax cuts are taken away. So anyone with a third grade mathematics knowledge, can see that 25 guys working, paying taxes, building things, and circulating their money, makes for more cash in the tax coffers, than they are taking in by upping the tax rates on our business. Now mulitiply this by a million times, and you should be able to figure out why less tax dollars are coming in by raising taxes. If you cant figure that out, then someone needs to help you, because your mathematically illiterate to not be able to figure this out. To most of us with any brains in our heads out there, this makes sense. To someone with a left wing liberal tax ‘em until their dead point of view, well they just dont get it.

          • Joe H.

            Berberoni,
            Now you’ve done it!!! may God have mercy on your soul!!!! EYES sure won’t!!!

  • Bruce

    Ok all is good, but saddly we have lived for at least 150 years with the “ILLUSION” of freedom. The LAW is a vast GRAY area, there are “NO black and white areas.”
    Nothing is clear cut, nothing is 100% certain in your favor.
    The system was broken just after it started.

    Don’t think so, then ask yourself a few questions, first question how many laws are there? So you better understand this question I am asking about {all laws,} be they state, or local level, or Federal. Can you count them? I bet not.

    This one is noted as the most well known alledged “Freedom” ownership of your own home and land.
    I ask you to please – Look at your deed, Please note, that even if you have paid in full your noted as a “TENANT”.
    You will also note that you don’t own the rights to the air on your land, nor do you own the rights to whats on your land or under its surface.
    Thus YOUR only a tenant. You don’t own anything, if the State or Federal Government wants what you have YOUR SOL.

    Now again just how FREE are you?

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Me, Im totally free. I am owned by no man, and I fear no man. I am the property of but one, Jesus Christ. No man can do anything to me or for me, without His saying so. In knowing that, I am free of man, but a prisoner to Christ. I can live with that.

  • Raggs

    What is there to do?

    As soon as people take a stand against the government lies obama will enstate marshal law.. He has already slipped into it by the declaration of the “swine-flu” pandimic.. In which is yet another lie only to scare people… Its tranny plan and simple.
    He knows his house of cards will fall if he does not control the people by any means possible.. The global governance is a step to disarm Americans, steal every dime you make and invaded our lives.
    The threat of imprisonment in “FEMA CAMPS” will be for those that do not follow the NWO.
    obama owns wall street and the road to hell.

    Somebody needs to write a book on this!!!
    But it would not be taugth in our schools, we all know indoctrination of children is taking place under our noses.

    I could go on forever but…

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      He would never be able to get away with it. The peasants would surely revolt.

  • Dennis

    Something to share from an American Hero
    This was a email sent to me and i thought i would share it with you, This man is a true America.

    Dear President Obama,

    My name is Harold Estes, approaching 95 on December 13 of this year. People meeting me for the first time don’t believe my age because I remain wrinkle free and pretty much mentally alert.

    I enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1934 and served proudly before, during and after WW II retiring as a Master Chief Bos’n Mate. Now I live in a “rest home” located on the western end of Pearl Harbor, allowing me to keep alive the memories of 23 years of service to my country.

    One of the benefits of my age, perhaps the only one, is to speak my mind, blunt and direct even to the head man.
    So here goes.

    I am amazed, angry and determined not to see my country die before I do, but you seem hell bent not to grant me that wish.

    I can’t figure out what country you are the president of.
    You fly around the world telling our friends and enemies despicable lies like:
    ” We’re no longer a Christian nation”
    ” America is arrogant” – (Your wife even
    announced to the world,”America is mean-
    spirited. ” Please tell her to try preaching that nonsense to 23 generations of our
    war dead buried all over the globe who
    died for no other reason than to free a
    whole lot of strangers from tyranny and
    hopelessness.)

    I’d say shame on the both of you, but I don’t think you like America, nor do I see an ounce of gratefulness in anything you do, for the obvious gifts this country has given you. To be without shame or gratefulness is a dangerous thing for a man sitting in the White House.

    After 9/11 you said,” America hasn’t lived up to her ideals.”

    Which ones did you mean? Was it the notion of personal liberty that 11,000 farmers and shopkeepers died for to win independence from the British? Or maybe the ideal that no man should be a slave to another man, that 500,000 men died for in the Civil War? I hope you didn’t mean the ideal 470,000 fathers, brothers, husbands, and a lot of fellas I knew personally died for in WWII, because we felt real strongly about not letting any nation push us around, because we stand for freedom.
    I don’t think you mean the ideal that says equality is better than discrimination. You know the one that a whole lot of white people understood when they helped to get you elected.
    Take a little advice from a very old geezer, young man.
    Shape up and start acting like an American. If you don’t, I’ll do what I can to see you get shipped out of that fancy rental on Pennsylvania Avenue. You were elected to lead not to bow, apologize and kiss the hands of murderers and corrupt leaders who still treat their people like slaves.
    And just who do you think you are telling the American people not to jump to conclusions and condemn that Muslim major who killed 13 of his fellow soldiers and wounded dozens more. You mean you don’t want us to do what you did when that white cop used force to subdue that black college professor in Massachusetts, who was putting up a fight? You don’t mind offending the police calling them stupid but you don’t want us to offend Muslim fanatics by calling them what they are, terrorists.
    One more thing. I realize you never served in the military and never had to defend your country with your life, but you’re the Commander-in-Chief now, son. Do your job. When your battle-hardened field General asks you for 40,000 more troops to complete the mission, give them to him. But if you’re not in this fight to win, then get out. The life of one American soldier is not worth the best political strategy you’re thinking of.
    You could be our greatest president because you face the greatest challenge ever presented to any president.
    You’re not going to restore American greatness by bringing back our bloated economy. That’s not our greatest threat. Losing the heart and soul of who we are as Americans is our big fight now.
    And I sure as hell don’t want to think my president is the enemy in this final battle.
    Sincerely,

    Harold B. Estes
    When a 95 year old hero of the “the Greatest Generation”
    stands up and speaks out like this, I think we owe it
    to him to send his words to as many Americans as
    we can. Please pass it on.

    • Raggs

      Good letter, Problem is that this country (government) has forgoten what veterans have done.
      And sending a letter to obama is a useless waste of time.
      Plain and simple obama don’t give a sh**. You can’t expect a muslim to understand the foundation of this nation or care anything about it.
      After all obama wants to kill unborn babies.. making it worse he expects us to pay for it.. obama is a sin agaisnt GOD. You can’t think he will “change”.. His road is paved in fire.

      • Dennis

        I’m with you brother trust me. I hate what Obama stands for rite down to every last Lie that comes out of his mouth.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Not only does Obama and his ilk want to kill babies in their mothers wombs, and does it, he is now using our money to pay for killing babies overseas. Immoral democrats.

  • http://www.stanelaine.com Stan B

    Speaking of “STEALTH” Is anyone curious as to why Obama has (again) overstepped his authority with Executive Order 12425? Simply put,He has re-amended the Ronald Reagan original Executive Order 12425 which now gives authority to foreign police over our own under the guise of UN/Interpol. This estimated 250 to 300,000 foreign militia have been training in the US with minimum media attention. This kind of access to our security systems seriously jeopardizes our security and sovereignty. Why do we have this build up of foreign para-military personnel on American soil? I would really like to see some comments on this issue.

  • s c

    This is true. And just like the Wizard of Oz, we’re not supposed to look behind the curtain. The wiz ‘knows best,’ and he won’t tolerate the idea of too much truth.
    The Wizard’s system is extremely profitable, it is deeply entrenched, it requires silence on many levels, and it doesn’t hesitate to sacrifice those who threaten the system’s status quo.
    It would make a great movie, if Hollywood had any integrity. It would foster many TV programs, if the media wasn’t a bloated, unworthy prostitute.
    Stealth systems work best in an artificial environment where ‘leaders’ are corrupt and citizens are ‘managed’ by those who ‘know best’ and expect to be highly paid for doing as little as possible.
    Sounds like Washington, doesn’t it?

  • Kathleen

    You take away the legitimacy of your argument when you vilify prominent professions. Do you really believe that doctors don’t do honest work? Really? Do you think that half of the country could figure out the tax code without accountants? How would you talk about lawyers if you were arrested for something you didn’t do and had to depend on an attorney to prove it?

    All of us are affected when our hard-earned savings is inflated away. Attacking hard-working people, only limits your audience.

  • Charles Veitengruber

    The “Stealth” thing has been going on in political circles for years. Many of the laws passed following 9/11, for example, Homeland Security and Patriot Act crap, were surreptitiously passed so that at later dates, and at the total whim of various authorities, managed by the oligarchy of the very rich, our civil liberties could be removed from us one by one, and selectively, as they choose. We already cannot travel to Canada or Mexico without passports or visas. Yet, Canadian trains and garbage trucks freely pass between the US and Canada without more than casual inspection. This PROVES that our civil liberties were the target of those laws. Next, I predict, will come checkpoints and visas within the continental US to further restrict our mobility. After all, we have thousands of well-trained troops to eventually bring home to man these checkpoints.

  • James

    To me “The Matrix” trilogy is the 21st century version of “The Wizard of Oz”

  • TeresaE

    nicely said sc, nicely said

  • http://www.stanelaine.com Stan

    Well written Bob,
    “STEALTH” would be an apt name for the ‘beast’. There are some interesting parallels to this beast. In scripture there is the ‘beast’ with seven heads mentioned in Revelation and, there is the mythological multi-headed ‘Hydra” Similarly, “STEALTH” also has many heads, (although cosiderably more subtle)Shall we count them?
    1) Council on Foreign Relations, 2) Trilateral Commission, 3) Bilderberg Group, 4)Federal Reserve, 5)UN, 6)IMF ad infinitum. Yes sc, it would make a great movie….if you could sneak it past the ‘Collectivist’ spies! G.Edward Griffin’s masterful study “The Creature from Jekyll Island” would be an ideal base for the story and script, since it is all based on substance & historical fact. Hypothetically, can we assemble a team of some of the following experts for our movie: G.Edward Griffin, Edwin Vieira, Ron Paul, Tom Winter, Matt Staver, Robert Schulz, Michelle Malkin, Bob Livingston and many, many more…..seriously, other than Glenn Beck with 4 million viewers, what could be more EFFECTIVE in letting our fellow Americans know what is really happening to our country behind the scenes??? We already have the expertise and resources, now we only need the funding andMel Gibson! And for all the doubting ‘Thomases’ who may say “All this conspiracy theory stuff is hogwash” I challenge you to seriously do the research for yourselves and get the facts!
    Can we find some moviemakers who have not yet been sold into the Socialistic Agenda?

  • Rod

    We know these people will fail. Hitler failed! Stalin failed! Nero
    Failed and all the rest of those critters have all failed! They have never had to deal with a Nation full of people who love their freedom!
    It’s WE THE PEOPLE, NOT, THEM THE CRIMINALS!

  • Bill Fox

    Life consists of praising God, breathing air, drinking water, eating food, and protecting ourselves from the elements, not earning and hording money. The simple solution to avoiding taxes is to earn as little as is necessary and own things that have little value, so that the taxes on them will be low.

  • boomerchick

    Americans have not been thinking clearly for a long time. We all bought the idea that the internet and computers would make everything cheaper for the consumer, hasn’t proven to be the case! Where is all of that money going?

  • shon

    Have known what you post for a long time, but I agree with Kathleen. You ruined your credibility with the lawyer/doctor/accountant comment. I’d like to see you take out your own brain tumor. If your plumber fixes your pipes, or a mechanic fixes your car, that is honest work. But if a doctor fixes your leg or your heart, that is not honest work? I don’t get it. Lawyers and accountants provide a service. They are paid for that service, just like an electrician or a secretary. They are also paid for their expertise and knowledge, just like an engineer or home builder or web designer. True, if the legal system and and tax code were simplified, most of us would not need lawyers or accountants. But what system would you simplify to eliminate the need for doctors? It’s not the government that’s making your liver fail.

  • Larry Stanley

    Kiss your buck goodbye?

  • Badger

    John Adams (my uncle) was an attorney, Ron Paul (my favorite congressman) is a doctor and I’ve gotten my best tax advise (yes I still pay it to stay free for a bigger calling) from an accountant.

    Having defended these professions, YES, we are being duped by the corrupt system and the ONLY thing that will turn it around is lead flying downrange.

    Keep your powder dry and watch your six, Badger

  • http://donnabullock.com Donna

    Think, people, think! Accountants can creatively skew numbers, making assets look like liabilities, Lawyers have knowledge of the law and often do not act in their clients’ best interests, many times have been paid off by the opposition, doctors take perks and money from pharmaceutical companies because insurance and medicare often do not pay rates demanded by the medical profession. All three of these professions are high liability institutions and more often than not, are paying off high interest student loans. The FAIR TAX (a consumer tax) would benefit everyone, bring back jobs to the US and do away with the Fed and the IRS, giving the ordinary citizen a leg up on unfair taxation. Get it through your head: The Government is NOT your friend and for that matter not even friendly. If you want to eliminate doctors, take a look at what you eat, how much exercise you get and the water you drink, then live long and CELEBRATE!

  • KEN

    UNFORTUNATELY — VERY VERY FEW REALIZE HOW ELECTRONICS HAVE BEEN USED TO ENSLAVE US — it all started with PIPED IN MUSIC — then — approx 30 years ago T V sets were designed to stay WARMED UP — ostensibly to save energy — unfortunately they also had the capability for two way sound transmission —- reports indicate that newer versions transmit both visual and sound — we had a simple electronic device in our nursey — so that my wife — working in the kitchen could hear our baby ” fuss ” —- sound was transmitted over and thru the energized electric wires of our home — what does that tell us? — that any typical home with typical electric wiring is capable of becoming a low power broadcast station —- so — any government agency can selectively spy on almost anyone in this country — if they so chose — I have often wondered if the AMISH with their ban on ELECTRIC WIRES may be the only people left in this country with any degree of privacy —- of course MICROCHIPS that can be implanted on almost anything may have eliminated the AMISH advantage ——it takes awhile to catch the places ( like convience stores and coffee shops ) that are part of the SYSTEM — sometimes simply sitting and quietly sipping a cup of coffee and observing carefully can produce results —- and if you choose to call me a conspiricy whacko — that is your free will privilage — I paid a very dear price years ago to learn the most dangerous word in the ENGLISH language —–
    ASSUME —- I REPEAT — ASSUME
    THEREFORE — ASSUME NOTHING AND QUESTION EVERYTHING

  • claspur

    “The Obama Deception” (runs 1hr. 51min.)

  • http://churchlionjudah@verizon.net B. Lee Pemberton

    All of the above-mentioned evils of government have one common cause: citizens are not involved in our government! The problems we suffer are our own fault. Besides, who would want to visit Canada or Mexico?

  • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

    I found it interesting to discover that George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and even “blue collar” Ben Franklin (Ben, also, an Illuminati member) were high degree masons. According to many other high degree masons, they all accepted “Lucifer” as the true Savior of man and Adam Weishaupt’s creation of the “New World Order” in May of 1776 would make Lucifer receive his recognition as the real savior of mankind! Adam W. also created the “seeing-eye” that another high degree mason, FDR, placed on our dollar bill! Coincidence? As written in the Sacret Scriptures, “You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out”! PS: Refers to the promise of “race” and Israel (not Judah (Grace)) when they control the world by the promise to Abraham!

  • Dennis

    The Ponzi Scheme, Read on.
    The definition of a Ponzi scheme is to steal from one group of suckers to pay another. Eventually all Ponzi schemes fail — when you run out of suckers. In this case, the suckers are American taxpayers. Obama says only the rich will pay — don’t believe it. A program this big and corrupt will hit everyone, regardless of income in their pocketbook. The rich will certainly be hit. Some will retire; some will move offshore; some will go underground; some will cut back on hours because the reward is no longer worth the risk; and many will go out of business under the new burdens. Obama will learn that you CAN kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

    The damage done to the rich will reverberate in deadly fashion to the middle class. First, jobs will be lost by the millions. Yes, millions MORE jobs than we’ve already lost. As my father used to say, “I’d love to hate the rich, but I’ve never gotten a job from a poor person.” And, when the tax revenues necessary to fund universal government-run healthcare fail to appear (because the rich have gone out of business, or refuse to work), Obama will turn to the middle class to pay the bill. It may take 5 years of massive, unimaginable budget deficits, but soon enough the middle class will be asked to pay dearly.

  • Robert

    Charles, the check points aren’t nex’t they already exsist, and more are being put in. As an OTR truck driver, I can tell you that on a trip from Laredo,TX to Denver,CO just a few months ago I went through 5 check points, and thats not including the weigh stations, and points of entry for each state, or the other two check points that were under construction. People think that putting up the wall along the border keep iilegals out, think again, it keeps US in.

  • Robert Too

    I traveled between New Mexico and Texas some years ago and found ICE checkpoints along the way. THEY ARE ALREADY HERE!

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    I disagree. Lawyers are the scum of the earth. They would only be interested in defending you, if you will pay them the minimum of 150.00 an hour, and tons more for the high dollar dudes that defend the guilty rich like O.J. and others. These guys are totally corrupted by money, and money is their god. Put it this way. I used to work in a Federal Court House. I would be delivering dockets to the judges office, and there sat the judge, the prosecuting attorney, and the defense attorney, telling each other what to plead and what to agree to, then meet at the judges lake house on Saturday for a party. Its just a bunch of rich guys, ripping off the rest of us who appear to need legal help. They have a license to steal, and they do it. Talk about a monopoly. Lawyers have a monopoly on legal issues, and they fully exploit that for the highest amount of money they can suck out of us. I really dont know how many of them can sleep at night. And doctors? Come on man. It used to be that the doctor knew your name, where you worked and lived, your wifes name, your kids names. Now all they are interested in is getting paid the highest amount and quickly write a prescription and send you on your way, as they are also making big bucks from the pharmaceutical companies, so they push their products, and pretty much dont even look much into what is wrong, they instead prescribe a pill. Ive got a problem with that.

  • Carolyn

    There are some honest lawyers and professionals but basically–since Govt. has set the operation of functioning– most now govern or lead by greed. The soul has been sold for the love of money and power which neither isn’t worth much.

  • DaveH

    I’ve been to many doctors over my lifetime, mostly useless. I have taken care of most of my problems with diet and supplements (which many doctors are trying to stifle through the FDA).

    I’ve had 5 different lawyers, mostly useless (at $200+/hour). The laws are so complex because lawyer-politicians make them that way. How convenient, pass convoluted laws, have guaranteed high-paid employment for life.

  • April

    Kathleen, The point of this subject “stealth” is that it happens soo very slowly and over such a long period of time that the victim(s) will not see what is happening right under neat their nose. Bob did not say that all doctors and lawyers and etc. were bad or dishonest, but that a great many of them are. These people are not our focus- but the system through which they work. He is trying to help us be wise to the “stealth system(s)” that is now in place and very capable of stealing from the majority for the so called purpose of “spreading the wealth”, but in reality they are spreading the wealth amongst themselves and making and keeping the majority needy, so that the mind set is that only the government can help us now. This is what is happenning in America, but it is not the American Spirit. So over a long period of time a stealth system is put in place to eventually bind, rape and pillage the American Spirit to enslave the People. I hope this is helpful.

  • TeresaE

    Most doctors and lawyers are good in intentions.

    But as products of the corrupt system, they don’t SEE that what they do is detrimental on many levels.

    The entire health and legal system is set up to FORCE us to support it. Doctors are paid by the same pharmaceutical giants that repeatedly poison us. Bad or incompetent lawyers are “watched” by bad and incompetent lawyers.

    The entire article is about stepping back and looking at reality, not reading reviews from the same system that created the corruption.

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    Here’s my thought, for whatever it’s worth. Seems to me that Bob Livingston and most commenting in response to his article are NOT saying that ALL attorneys, doctors, etc, are bad. I think they’re trying to express their belief that MOST are either bad…by intent…or possibly by the quagmire of governemntal entanglement.

    As for Beberoni’s comments…maybe those he’s come in contact with have been pretty much worthless…how else is he to gauge the service of an industry (and that’s exactly what it is….an industry) except by services he has received from those practicing in such industries? I believe when the majority of a group or profession, are unethical…it creates an uphill battle for the good ones to make the kind of ethically positive impact customers and patients deserve.

    I agree with April’s comment “These people are not our focus- but the system through which they work. He is trying to help us be wise to the “stealth system(s)” that is now in place and very capable of stealing from the majority for the so called purpose of “spreading the wealth”, but in reality they are spreading the wealth amongst themselves and making and keeping the majority needy, so that the mind set is that only the government can help us now”. Thank you, April for your insight on Bob’s article.

    While we’re on the subject of ethics and relating to Kathleen’s comment, “Do you think that half of the country could figure out the tax code without accountants?”

    My thought: If it were not for the excessively complex tax code, there would not be a need for so many tax attorneys. It seems very much like a socialistic “addictive” government… and one more example of how the government “hooks” the people into this never ending cycle of over-spending and over-taxation. Yes, these “professionals” are paid for a service. the problem is many in these professions turn a simple fix for an ACUTE problem… into a COMPLEX financial and CHRONIC reoccurring nightmare. Not sure about everyone else, but I’m starting to feel like a guinea pig on a never “spin” ending wheel.

    Regarding (I believe) Shon’s comment, “They are also paid for their expertise and knowledge, just like an engineer or home builder or web designer”.

    This is to some extent….very true. To me, this is just another example of where the legal and medical communities (and to some extent many other professionals) are engaging in at the very least…questionable…if not absolute and likely down-right conflicts of interests. One only needs to look at their own state licensing boards as an example of how government created by our forefathers has morphed into a tax-payer subsidized nightmare. Most states don’t pass strong enough laws to protect the actual consumers the state boards are “supposedly” there to protect….all while still collecting licensing fees from the “professionals”…..almost sounds like a bad version of sleeping with the enemy….to me. This is where it would appear that many in government simply perpetuate such a nightmare.

    Last…but not least…..in response to your comments “True, if the legal system and and tax code were simplified, most of us would not need lawyers or accountants. But what system would you simplify to eliminate the need for doctors?”…

    I suggest the answer may be right under your and our nose. It will not be an overnight cure, but I think getting rid (once and for all) the current US taxation system….would be a GREAT START! For me, a flat or fair tax is the way to go. Check out http://www.fairtax.org for FAQ’s and what I believe is a more honest assessment of our current taxation, as well as a comparison between the fair tax way and the current way. It seems (to me) this would at least instill more confidence in our government! You don’t have to agree, but consider being open-minded enough to review the info and decide for “yourself”…not “have it decided for you”.

    Fed Up Gal

  • DaveW

    Kathleen, vilify prominent professions? Between the AMA, the FAD and the drug compaies which are comitting genocide in this country under the guise of healing. There are comparstively few doctors brave enough to only prescribe a medicine as a last resort when they don’t know of a natural alternative remedy. The AMA with the help of the FTC have raided doctor’s offices destroying all their research on alternative remedies. The AMA has caused many doctors to lose their license for merely prescribing alternative remedies. The FDA says that foods cannot cure disease, only medicine can. How stupid can they be to think anyone would believe this.

    My wife was in an auto accident. Her lawyer claimed that she should get an award of at least $45,000. He sent her to a doctor who spent about five minutes with her and all he did was tep her knee for reflex reaction. I was there. His fee $600. My wife’s award was $16,000. It appeared that his clerks were doing most of the work involing the case. Does this sound like a shady practice motivated by greed? Was the lawyer in cahoots with the insurnace company?

    I received a cold call from an accountant who wanted to offer me some financial advice by appointment. I thought he might be trying to sell me some kind of program I could refuse. Not so, a fewdays later I got a bill from him for over $100. This gives you some information about the three professions mentioned.

    Kathleen, you are naive. You should do a little research before you voice a stupid opinion. This article does not limit Bob’s audience, but it destroys your credibility.

  • Harold

    lawyer is the least respected profession in AQmerica

  • Diana

    All this information is great, but HOW do you stop a runaway train?? Your employer takes taxes out of your check. To not pay your taxes, you go to jail and pay huge penalties – how do you stop that train?? The gov. doesn’t listen to the people anymore, the pres. doesn’t even listen to the other branches of gov. For instance he is going to sign this treaty in Dec. without the consent of Congress, Senate. Wow – how do you stop that train???

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    I dont associate with accountants, as Ive never had the need for one, as I can do math myself, thank you. As for doctors and lawyers, Ive never seen a bigger group of crooks in my life. I had arthoscopic knee surgery, in and out in 2 hours. $ 8,648.00. Come on, gimme a break. You tell me anyjob is worth $ 4,324.00 an hour? Didnt they take what is called the Hypocratic oath, to serve mankind? To rip us off with these kind of bills, is terrible, and sorry, its wrong.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Yep. Even though the Federal Government illegally takes taxes from us, there are no employers who wont hold out taxes because they dont want trouble, then people resort to writing down 18 dependants, then get caught for falsifying their tax reports.

  • DaveH

    Diana,
    He can sign the treaty, but without Senate approval it would be non-binding on the United States.

  • s c

    Diana, we hve no choice but to view polticians as pond scum (‘incumbents-in-waiting’). The entrenched gold-ole-boy system has been used against us, and many citizens still do not see it as a serious flaw. Politicians grow stronger when they’re allowed to stay in Washington, and that potential was seen by the Founding Fathers as exactly what it is – ANTI-AMERICAN.
    It has allowed a two-party system to squeeze us in the middle, while rewarding career criminals who have conspired to take away our freedom(s). This prez is the worst of them all.
    I don’t have all the answers, but it’s obvious that as long as we let politicians become CAREER VERMIN who put themselves before us, we have NO chance to change anything – let alone be free or stay free. What else needs to be said?

  • Richard Pawley

    I do not believe at this late date that the train can be stopped but if enough people pray and vote, it can be slowed down. You have two options, pray and prepare. Running to another country as 15,000 a month have been doing for years will only provide temporary relief as this thing is spreading world-wide. God really does answer prayer if we are sincere and pour out our trust to him. He knows all that is going on. There are no surprises to Him. The biggest thing that people will need in the future is food, water and fuel (and perhaps shelter). I am not assigning the blame for all this to anyone because we all had a part in it by just going along with the status quo. Pray and Prepare!

  • Carolyn

    In one sense, Govt. can be the reason your liver fails. Big Pharma is the ones that makes pills (and the FDA leaves some medicines out there that kill) and doctors would be destroyed if they told the truth about what they know.
    With Govt. now wanting to control your Health, plan to die.
    The country isn’t what it use to be (nor the people) but being destroyed from within by the so called elected who swore to uphold the Law of the Land, the U.S. Constitution and if you think all is going according to that and the Rule of Law, you might want to buy some swamp land in AZ.
    Govt and Big Pharma are in bed together. Remember, there are too many slaves still here for World Govt. More than they need so you can promote abortion- pro choice (actually murder), vaccines that can kill you, poisoned food from China, etc.Remove your rose colored glssses mand see ‘The Country isn’t what it use to be and it’s being destroyed from within.” Evil has become good and good is now evil. See what Education can do for a good mind- gives you a title w/o enough sense to come in out of the rain.

  • Lynda the wize

    I have never added anything to one of these blogs but I just could not sit quietly without adding a comment. I really do respect Doctors but now I am very cautions.

    I have had two very serious experiences with Doctors, the first being a recommended historectomy when living in Silicone Valley San Jose Californiain 1970. This was after the birth of my 3rd child when I was a totally healthy 26 year old. My Gynecologist at the time told me “it (my uterous) was just gathering dust anyway”. Not two months later on the news there was an article about some Doctors doing unnecessary surgery to gain profit. SCARED ME TO DEATH !!!
    The second was about 15 years ago here in Tucson AZ when I had a car accident and crushed my patella and ripped some tendons. The ER doctor told me that I did not need an X-ray. I insisted I get one if only for insurance purposes. Subsequently the Osteopathic Dr. told me to wait a week to see what the leg looked like. At his office he told me I would not need surgery and I could get along OK. I insisted that he fix the two huge lumps in my leg, one above the knee area and one below. After the surgery he said – Gee there was alot of damage in there and it was good we did the surgery. Since then I have taken a really good look at the US Western medicine perspective.

    I must add that when visiting my long time internist who had treated me for 20 years came into treat me in his office had been treated in his eye for a cancerous growth. That had inclued removal of the tumor and stitches at the side of his eyeris. He was amazed at how difficult it was to be a patient. It amazed me that it took so long for him to figure that out.

    Please be aware that these people who work very hard under major stress but are vulnerable to the social and financial pressures of their work.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    When a doctor fixes my leg you ask , is it honest work. Yes it is. But is the price honest for the work done, I dont think so. I go in there for arthroscopic surgery on my right knee. Im in and out of surgery in less than an hour, they make me wait one hour before I leave to make sure there is no repercussions from the anethesia, and Im charged over 8000.00. Come on man. You actually call that honest? I call that price goughing, and its not right.

  • DaveW

    There are many doctors intentionally or unintentially will treat failing liver by prescribing a medicine which in turn causes another problem and another medicine until a patient is taking 7 or 8 medicines. Shon, some doctors will try to prolong liver failure just to get the money for treatments. Some don’t know how to treat a failing liver. Every time one visits a doctor, they should ask themselves. How near the top of the excelling doctors did your doctor place? Is he an alcholic or a drug user? Is he suffering some kind of debilitating health problem? Is he/she depressed due to family problems? Does he/she keep up with the latest findings in medicine? You should know this because you may be putting your life in the hands of an incompetant that could cut off your right leg when the problem is in the left leg. It has happened.

  • http://honeypapa@gmail.com philip

    we must find away to change this stealth form of goverment. the obama polosi reid and the demacratic libeeral marixis party just keep printing money to put their marixis stealth over take of america in to pratice, by destroying our free enter prise system.they prctice closed door midnight smoke filled rooms to pass unwanted laws behind our backs. one example is thir health care wich the majority of americana opposed this is our stealth govermrent of the people. we need to wake up american people lets vote this proplem out and bing freedom back

  • DaveH

    Beberoni,
    In my 30s, I had a torn meniscus in my left knee which caused me severe pain. I mostly hobbled around for about a month. I saw a knee specialist and was scheduled for an operation at about $5000. I thought about it all weekend and decided I was going to try to work it out on my own, so I cancelled the operation. The doctor tried to scare me about forgoing the operation, but I ignored him.
    I started doing squats with lighter weight at first (about 100 lbs). Then over the following months increasing to about 250 lbs. My friends and wife thought I had left on the loony train.
    Anyway, that was over 20 years ago and I have snow-skied, jet-skied, backpacked, and other strenuous activities countless times and my knee has been just fine.
    I guess my main point in telling people this story is not to dis doctors but to illustrate the power of money when it comes to making medical decisions. If I had health insurance which would have paid for the operation, I probably would not have made the decision to pursue my own solution to the knee problem. That is one of the many reasons (health insurance) that our medical costs are so high. And most of the others are government involvement in medical care.

  • shon

    I’m sorry, you have your facts terribly wrong. The Medicare reimbursement for a knee arthroscopy ranges from $339.64 for CPT code 29870, to $621.69 for CPT code 29887. So you are either confused about charges versus actual reimbursement, or lying to make a point. Most private insurances pay 85 to 140 percent of Medicare. So there is no way any insurance company paid your surgeon $8649 for a knee scope. Then out of that $600 for 2 hours of work, your surgeon had to pay a nurse, a receptionist, a scheduler, a billing office, rent on office space, taxes, licensing feels, malpractice insurance, mandatory CME credits, and the list goes on. So out of that $621, the surgeon kept about $200, or about $100 an hour, which is less than an architect makes. You really, REALLY have no idea what you are talking about. You must have heard that from Obama’s town meetings. One last question, how much is the ability to walk without pain worth to you? If it was not worth that much to you, why did you just not have the surgery, or go to someone who would do it for less?

  • shon

    Another common misconception most people have, including possibly Beberoni, is that the fee your doctor gets for doing a surgery is only for the time in the operating room. So $1000 sounds like a lot for 2 hours of work. But, what most people don’t know is that there is a 90 day “Global Period” that includes all care for the 3 months after the surgery. So all of the visits in the hospital, all of the follow-up visits in the office, including any supplies used for splint replacement or cast replacement, andy prescription refill requests, notes for time off work, and so on are all included in that fee the surgeon is paid for 3 months. Believe me. When you see that your insurance company has paid your surgeon $1000 for “2 hours of work,” It is a whole hell of a lot less than $500/hr. And out of that, the surgeon pays a nurse, a receptionist, a scheduler, a billing office, rent on office space, taxes, licensing feels, malpractice insurance, mandatory CME credits, and the list goes on. So how much does the doctor actually take home to his family per hour? Don’t get me wrong, doctors do make a good living in return for 11 to 15 years of training, but it’s not what it looks like on the explanation of benefits you get from your insurance company.

  • Raggs

    It’s a shell game…..
    Congress always wants to keep us guessing without telling us any truth. Health care , Cap-n-trade , Global climate change.
    All of this has only one true purpose…. A New world order and a one global government… I’m still not convinced the collapse of our economy was not planned, It would stand to reason this would be a perfect set-up for the government to control all aspects of our lives through a program it started. Just like health care etc.

  • DaveH

    Yes, people need to realize that Big Government is not the solution, it is the problem. Quit voting for Republicans and Democrats, they are both growing government consistently. For sure the Democrats grow it quicker than the Republicans.
    A better solution:
    http://libertarianparty.org/platform

  • TeresaE

    Most sheep don’t WANT to see the stealth.

    To quote the majority of friends and family when you point out the reality of our system, “I WON’T believe the middle class is being intentionally eradicated.” Yet they continue to whine when prices rise, wages fall and the government writes legislation that will only make it worse with fewer jobs for all that don’t work for the government.

    We are doing a better job of being communist than China. Chavez was quoted as saying with the takeover (and union gift) of GM & Chrysler, Obama was coming down left of Chavez and Castro.

    Baaa. is the reaction from the sheep.

  • shon

    OK, you got me. I’ll give you the drug/liver issue. And the live flu vaccine that nearly killed a frined of mine’s 4 year old. Liver disease was a bad example for me to choose (though the most common cause is alcohol, which is self inflicted.) How about then, the government doesn’t cause car accidents. The government doesn’t force people to overeat and become obese. The government doesn’t make people fall out of a tree or off of a roof and break their back. The government doesn’t cause pneumonia, cellulitis, strep throat, influenza, and diarrhea. So while I know there are a few doctors that just want to make money (though if you just want to get rich, medicine is a really inefficient way to do that), and there are major problems caused by our government, you can’t say that getting rid of the Government and Big Pharma would “destroy doctors.” I tell everybody who does not trust doctors: don’t go to one. It’s that simple. Nobody’s forcing anyone to seek medical attention for anything. That is a free choice. Look what human beings have accomplished over the last 5000 years or so without modern medicine (Persians, Chinese, Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, British, Aztecs, Incans, Mayans, and the list goes on). Anybody that thinks all doctors are crooks that are just out for money just shouldn’t go to one. Exercise free choice.

  • DaveH

    Whether the collapse was planned or not, it definitely was a result of government meddling in the mortgage industry.

  • shon

    You are a dream patient. If everyone would exercise, quit smoking, eat a reasonable quantity, etc, we wouldn’t spend so much money on medical care in this country. What you did is perfect, and the desired outcome of every surgeon. Unfortunately, you are the minority. Most people do not want to do anything for themselves. They want someone else to fix what is wrong with them at someone else’s expense, so they can continue to be lazy and make poor lifestyle choices. I applaud you for doing the right thing, unfortunately, most people don’t.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Originally that was my plan also. Until three months after I did it, I bent down, and the darn thing wouldnt straighten up. Then I woke up in the middle of night to see it 3 times it size, only to wake up in the morning it was back to normal and didnt hurt. I thought, this isnt right. Then it did it again. Come to find out in surgery, from the little pictures they take with the scope, there was piece of the miniscus torn off in there that was wedging in the bone to keep it from straightening out. But you know, over 8000 bucks for this operation that is simple for them is a crock. Its greed.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Wish I could have done that. With the loose piece in mine, I couldnt bear weight on it, and it would lock when I bent it.

  • DaveH

    Who said anything about Medicare reimbursement? Obviously we have been invaded by another Liberal who confuses hopes and dreams with reality. Learn how to read before you accuse others of lying. My scheduled operation was over 20 years ago for $5000 cash, no insurance involved.

  • DaveH

    Another point Shon – Beberoni was talking “knee surgery” not “arthroscopy”. One of my life long pet pieves is jerks who will attack people without even taking the time to understand what is being said.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Marty

    I grew up a child of the 50′s and my parent’s trust in our government was complete. I remember
    asking my Mom about something I had read that was directly opposed to what we had believed and my
    Mom said that “if it wasn’t good for us, the “government” wouldn’t allow it”. Another time when Cora Tenboom who was imprisoned at Auschwitz came to our church and sadly looked out over the crowd and told us that what happened to Germany could happen in America, I was frightened, but when I looked at my parent’s faces, I could see that it wasn’t true. I asked about that also and my parents said that “it could never happen in America because we are a Christian nation”. The belief in America/our government was total. My first doubts started during the Nixon Administration and the one thing that bothered me the most was our news media and their constant barrage of abuse even when the American public got so tired of hearing, reading etc. about it, they kept on hounding the man. Little did I understand back then that one of the first things that’s done when taking over a nation is to put the media under your control.And, as we have seen, that has been done very effectively, for the most part. As I look back now, with the wisdom of hindsight, the more obvious beginnings of what we are beginning to see so clearly now was being set into place during the 60′s, escalated in the 70′s and has been growing ever since and now here we are. How do we fight something so patient, so well-planned and backed by the world’s wealth?

    As to doctors, I believe that doctors are not as culpable as lawyers, as doctors have been victimized by
    the welfare system and have become disillusioned and by necessity, less involved with their patients
    than what we knew back in the “good old days”. As to lawyers, I was married to one and he was an
    honest man, but he also was not driven by money…he just wanted a 9 to 5 job, 5 days a week and to go
    hunting on weekends. However, most lawyers are the scum of the earth when it comes to earning
    their huge fees…they are dishonest (I’m saying MOST, not ALL) and they are in collusion with crooked
    judges who accept bribes on a regular basis (again, not all of them, thank God). This comes from first-
    hand knowledge from being both inside and outside the system and having witnessed firsthand much
    of what goes on.

    Bob Livingston is right and we MUST have knowledge but how to use it if you are like me and so many others who are on limited income and do not have money in the bank or in investments…we are like
    sitting ducks and sometimes I wish I did not know as much as I do as I do not sleep well at night. I
    worry about my grown child who has her own small business, my son-in-law who is busy
    furthering his education instead of making all he can while he still can and putting it into a safer
    commodity than paper….and he is in the stock and commodities business…but they do not read what
    I read….they listen to news on TV. My heart is broken for America and for its people.

  • Dennis Hollingsead

    My father was a medical doctor who started his practice in Southern California in 1957. His office visit charge was $9.00. This price did not increase for 10 years. In 1967 he finally had to raise his office visit to $12.00 and by 1973 to $18.00 (100% in five years.) That is a 20% yearly increase, all due to the fact that Medicare and Medicaid (enacted in 1965) only paid between 70% and 80% of submitted charges. How do I know? I was his accountant and EVERY DAY for three years “wrote off” hundreds of dollars in uncollectable billings!

    Dad practiced in a small farming community in the Southern San Joaquin Valley with a few private patients, some insured individuals (no large companies nearby), and a majority of poor farm workers (the Caesar Chavez years.) The healthcare revenue stream now is very complicated, but during these years (1957-1975) the financial remuneration came from these three revenue sources. It is a fact that the yearly increase of 20% that my dad had to impose on his patients was DIRECTLY related to the percentage of non-payment of submitted charges to Medicare-Medicaid!

    The true cost of health care since 1965 has ALWAYS been subsidized through the backdoor taxation (shell game) of private payers and insured individuals paying ever-increasing premiums. Will anything be different with the currently proposed health care bill? No! The Federal government has demonstrated for 44 years that the reason health care prices have increased is because of their restrictive policies and partial-payment of bills submitted!

    What THINKING American would ask a group of people that know NOTHING about the intricacies of practice and ethics in healthcare, to come up with a health care plan without consulting those who actually do health care? This fact alone proves that the current plan is NOT about health care reform, but rather the socialization (Sovietization) of America! Anyone who believes that the current healthcare proposal is good for America is either ignorant or interested only in a major political power grab! It IS possible to fix the relatively few problems in the system without trashing 85% that we are actually doing with excellence!!! What arrogance Congress displays!

    Over the last seven months Congress and the President have demonstrated ineptitude in the health care process. Can “We the People” trust them with health care after watching this kabuki show? Do we know if 150 real doctors showed up at the White House, or were some of those people ACORN employees? The fact that I even have to ask the question should give EVERY Congressperson and American in support of this sinking ship, cause to pause! ANY Congressperson that votes for ANY health care bill now is not just standing on the 3rd rail, they are licking it!

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    If your talking to me, I had this surgery at the age of 33, so there was no medicare or medicaid crap involved. There were two sets of bills. A doctor charge of 4300 hundred something, and a facility charge of 4400 something. My portion of this ended up being around 800.00 that I paid out of my pocket. Its still too much, but dont try to tell me what I paid, as I know, and I have the receipts.

  • http://ordy@fedtel./net Eric g

    There has always been a lot of things wrong , but somethings if not most are best right now . evreyone has a slightly differant road in life , some seem to have evreything great and others nothing but pain and suffering . Often the people with the most blessings are complaining the most. And the people with the toughest road the happiest . Nothing in life is fair or just , but I agree we should try to make it that way . True the federal reserve power to print money is a sham based on nothing but trust in the liars . but what is gold ? but another sham . Yrs ago they had a gong show ,If you won you got diamonds and gold worth many thousands of dollars . If you lost you won some worthless goats , worth less than a hundred dollars . This concept made me more than a little upset . As I raised animals for a living . Maybe even the majority of the worlds people would rather have a herd of goats than some shiny stones . I see some real danger to our american society , becuase of all our progress . It seems our poorest people have been seperated from the land . The worst governments in world history have seperated the poor from the land . This way the government gets total control of the poor , And believe it or not most of us are poor . How else can you force people against their will to eat little green tacks . If people have access to the land they have the power to tell you NO !we we will live off our land . By this sceinero the United States is one of the most represive governments that have ever existed on earth . The republicains conservatives dont really have much better answers than the liberal socialists for our problems , a combination seems best to me . But they fight so much that it gets sickening .

  • Raggs

    Exactly…

    ACORN. SEIU Oh I wonder you it is that supports them with our tax monies? Could it be obama?

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Along with government meddling in all kinds of things it shouldnt be involved in.

  • shon

    Dave: My reply was to Beberoni. Beberonie’spost says “arthoscopic knee surgery”. What are you talking about? That’s what it says. Direct quote!

  • DaveH

    Shon,
    Do you know the difference between ‘Arthroscopic Knee Surgery’ and ‘Arthroscopy’? Obviously not. Look it up.

  • shon

    There you go again, you have once again “attack people without even taking the time to understand what is being said”. Just for kicks, why don’t you explain to me what the difference is between “Arthroscopic Knee Surgery”, and “Arthroscopy” is. I’m looking at the 2007 CPT book right now. You can turn to page 102. Codes 29870 through 29889 cover KNEE arthroscopy, which is exactly what Beberoni said he had, if you had read his post, which is what you accuse me of not doing. The funny thing is that I told you you did the right thing in not having knee surgery, and that I wish every American was like you. I complemented you, and in return, you have attacked me with inaccurate facts and misquotations. You sound like a real winner. Sorry I gave you the complement.

  • DaveH

    Would it do any good for me to explain the difference between looking at a joint with an arthroscope, and actually doing surgery using an arthrosope as an aid?

  • DaveH

    I expect an apology from you, Shon, when you figure it out (if ever). And Beberoni should get one also.

  • shon

    Yes. That is very helpful. The code for “arthroscopically aided posterior cruciate ligament repair is 29889, which reimburses $1034.49. For anterior cruciate ligament: 29888, its $847.67. For a meniscal transplant with endoscopic assistance, its 29868, which gets all the way up to $1445.41, but is not “in and out in 2 hours”. I challenge you to find me a knee “surgery using an arthrosope as an aid” that would get anyone paid $8,648.00, even with the best insurance plan, and would only take 2 hours. I hope I have convinced you that I most certainly know what I am talking about. I would not attack someone without knowing exactly what I am talking about.

  • shon

    Dave: I don’t need to apologize to you. I have not done anything wrong to you. I started by complementing you, and have since spent several posts defending myself against inaccurate attacks from you against me. What am I apologizing for?

    Beberoni: I’m sorry if I have wrongly accused you. I would be interested to see the Explanation of Benefits from your insurance company that states what your physician was contracted to receive from them for your surgery. Not the bill you got from the surgeon, but what the insurance company actually paid the surgeon. Those are very different. The bill you got is irrelevant. It may as well have been for a million dollars. It means nothing. What you owe is entirely determined by your insurance plan, based on your deductible and co-insurance. What your surgeon gets paid is entirely determined by your insurance company’s fee schedule, which is based on a percentage of Medicare. If you do not have insurance, then what you owe is entirely between you and your doctor. If that one charged too much, go to someone else. That’s assuming that this wasn’t an emergency procedure.

  • shon

    And Dave and Beberoni, I never called either of you a crook or a jerk. I did not call either of you a name at any time. I said Dave “sounds like a real winner”, but only because of the completely off base accusations he was making about me after I GAVE HIM A COMPLEMENT!

    Finally, to both of you, I do not have a problem with people complaining about medical bills. I complain about how much my roof costs, or how much I paid to replace my radiator. I do get upset when people do not ask the price before agreeing to the services, and then complain after the fact. If you go to a restaurant with no prices on the menu, do not complain when the bill is nice and high. Mechanics, electricians, and plumbers give estimates. So do doctors. If price is an issue (which it should be), get a quote ahead of time, and negotiate or go to someone else if it is too high. You have to take some responsibility. Isn’t that what we all want here on this forum? For the government to leave us alone so we can make our own decisions?

  • DaveH

    Do you read the comments at all before you lash out? Beberoni said nothing about Medicare reimbursement.
    And you commented “So you are either confused about charges versus actual reimbursement, or lying to make a point”.
    You didn’t attack Beberoni?
    And Medicare reimburses only a portion of the actual surgical costs to the patient. So the doctor needs to make up for the shortfall by charging other patients more (cash patients or otherwise insured).

    So you are accusing Beberoni and I of making up our figures? And you call yourself Libertarian? Please don’t tell people that you are Libertarian as I’ve spent consider time trying to get people to learn what Libertarians are all about and you are damaging our image.

  • DaveH
  • shon

    I can’t believe you. It just makes my blood boil. I’m shaking right now I’m so angry. Who the hell are you to say:

    “Please don’t tell people that you are Libertarian as I’ve spent consider time trying to get people to learn what Libertarians are all about and you are damaging our image.”

    Are you for real? I was an invited Speaker at a Tea Party on this subject in June at our state capitol. What kind of statement is that to make about someone you’ve never met and know nothing about. And you say I am damaging YOUR image? You are doing a fabulous job of damaging your own image on this thread. You keep forgetting, you started attacking me after I agreed with you and complemented you. Thanks.

    Now, here is your link, so everybody else can see it:

    Went in for a torn meniscus – not a major tear, I have a individual PPO plan:

    Doctor visits; pre surgery and exams (total 3) $512 (my cost: $150)
    MRI $992.00 (my cost: 382)
    Hospital $4,909 (my cost: $2,196)
    Anesthesia 718.20 (my cost: $0)
    Doctor Charge: $3591 (surgery) (my cost: $349)

    total amounts billed to insurance: 10,722.20

    MY TOTAL OUT OF POCKET EXPENSE AFTER INSURANCE: $3,077

    So no. That person is not a liar. $3591 is a pretty good reimbursement for that procedure. That person must be in a state with a higher cost of living, and there must be a reason that particular insurance company is paying so much above Medicare rates. It is still not “arthoscopic knee surgery, in and out in 2 hours. $ 8,648.00. Come on, gimme a break. You tell me anyjob is worth $ 4,324.00 an hour?” That is a direct quote once again so you can not continue to tell me I can’t read.

    Finally, my statement “So you are either confused about charges versus actual reimbursement, or lying to make a point,” gives the benefit of the doubt that an honest error was made rather than the latter. I did not attack him. I did not call him a liar. I defended myself against somebody who called me a “crook”. I didn’t start this. I simply could not sit idly by and leave a post like his on this blog without a counterargument. You took this to a whole different level of name calling and personal attacks. This is supposed to be a forum for intellectual debate, where we can all share ideas and learn from each other. It is not supposed to be a place where I come to be called a “jerk” and a “crook”.

    Do you know how stupid I could make you look? I have so far refrained, but here it goes since you insist on insulting me over an over. You posted: “Do you know the difference between ‘Arthroscopic Knee Surgery’ and ‘Arthroscopy’? Obviously not. Look it up.” You also posted: “Would it do any good for me to explain the difference between looking at a joint with an arthroscope, and actually doing surgery using an arthrosope as an aid?”

    My reply to you is ARTHROSCOPY IS A SURGERY! I am a neurosurgeon! I don’t need you to explain this to me. I could tell you how to do those procedures. I have done them myself! Of course I know the difference you condescending little…..! You really need to watch who you are insulting and condescending to. And you say I am damaging your image. I was trying to be helpful and educate people on what doctors actually make, to counter the popular misconceptions spread by our current president at his town hall meetings. You crossed the line with your insults and name calling. I agree with your ideas. I am glad you are a libertarian. We are on the same side. But you need to learn some diplomacy and tact, and be willing to learn from experts in the field. It would help you make your point (and my point) stronger instead of just pissing off people who agree with you.

  • shon

    I mean really, you are asking a neurosurgeon, “Do you know the difference between ‘Arthroscopic Knee Surgery’ and ‘Arthroscopy’? Obviously not. Look it up.” And you are telling a neurosurgeon, “Medicare reimburses only a portion of the actual surgical costs to the patient. So the doctor needs to make up for the shortfall by charging other patients more (cash patients or otherwise insured).”

    Really, I don’t need to “look it up.” Really. Are your really stupid enough to have said that to a neurosurgeon, TWICE? Where did you get your MD and where did you do your surgical residency? And how many patients have you treated this year for free in the middle of the night? And how many insurance contract have you negotiated this year? And how many procedures have you coded for this year? And how well do you know the CPT coding system? And how much do you know about “bundling”, and “global periods”, and “CCI edits?” that all factor into what every patient pays for every surgery, including everybody with private insurance, not just Medicare patients. What gives you the expertise to talk down to me like that. Come to think of it, what makes it OK for anyone to talk down to anyone like that. Being condescending is never necessary, it makes you look like an idiot. I’m done venting. Hopefully, you will learn something from this exchange. And you want me to apologize to you. That’s a good one. Really? I’m still in shock. I’m so sorry I ever complemented you for taking good care of yourself.

  • Joe H.

    Shon,
    not to demean your profession, but there are some unscrupulous dealers even in yours. I had a partial laminectomy a about 25 years ago and the 7 to 10 day stay ended up being a 50 day stay!!! when they removed the stitches, the incision just opened right back up! They told me I had an infected hair follicle that turned into a staph infection. there were five of us that got these infections that week and we only had the OR in common. Try to find a Dr. that would testify to that. I have nerve damage in my back that you can stab me with a pin and I don’t feel it except as pressure on my back! I get chest pains that they have determined are caused by the nerve damage. (I have had a complete catheterization of my major arteries so I’m pretty sure its not my heart. That 50 day stay cost my insurance over 100,000 so don’t tell me they don’t over charge!!!

  • DaveH

    Eric,
    What would be best is for people to determine their own lives without the micromanagement of government. Wake up to the reality that they (the leaders) are in it for themselves. Do you care about me? Of course not. Do you really think the politicians care about us? Government was a lot smaller when I was young. And guess what? I got along just fine. In fact I was much happier then when I was able to make my own personal decisions without so much meddling by government officials.

  • shon

    Dave. My reply was to Beberoni, not to you. You did exactly the right thing. I brought up Medicare rates because ALL insurance reimbursement is a percentage of Medicare rates. It is all controlled by the government. Doctors are not ripping anybody off. Doctors do not set their own prices, the government sets it for them. Congress determines determine’s doctors’ income every year. You can look them up:

    http://www.trailblazerhealth.com/Tools/Fee%20Schedule/MedicareFeeSchedule.aspx

    So do NOT call me a liberal. Liberal to me is a 4 letter word. “Confuses hopes and dreams with reality” What are you talking about? I am a working, taxpaying, fiscal conservative that has voted Libertarian in previous elections. I want the government to stay the hell out of my life. So you say I “attack people without even taking the time to understand what is being said,” but that is exactly what you have done to me twice now. Why not practice what you preach!

  • DaveH

    Shon,
    I attacked you being fully aware of both yours and Beberoni’s statements. Read the comments carefully and figure out where you went wrong instead of blindly defending yourself.

  • shon

    Here is Beberoni’s statement copied and pasted:

    “As for doctors and lawyers, Ive never seen a bigger group of crooks in my life. I had arthoscopic knee surgery, in and out in 2 hours. $ 8,648.00. Come on, gimme a break. You tell me anyjob is worth $ 4,324.00 an hour? Didnt they take what is called the Hypocratic oath, to serve mankind? To rip us off with these kind of bills, is terrible, and sorry, its wrong.”

    What part did I misinterpret?

  • Robert Too

    There was a checkpoint in the airport at San Juan,P.R. as early as 1984. When entering the waiting area, there was an immigration official questioning each person’s place of birth. Big Brother is under your bed!

  • Sue

    You are right on April. A few years ago at age 46, I was diagnosed with degenerative arthritis in a disc in my neck – it was pinching a nerve – PAINFUL! The x-rays and followup MRI’s confirmed it. Doctors wanted to give me cortisone shots, therapy, then fuse the discs (big time surgery) if those didn’t help; I read a lot about it, mainly Gary Null’s book about helping your body heal itself; I did everything he said to do for arthritis; three weeks later I wake up singing – I had slept through the entire night! My doctor’s mouth dropped when I told them I was absolutely pain free! They aren’t bad people – they are just by products of the SYSTEM.

    But, they ARE out all of the consitent money I would have provided for weekly shots or therapy, not to mention the VERY expensive surgery. And the cost to me to “CURE” it myself? Well, a few bottles of vitamins and minerals, now of which I buy online at about 40% off. Also, since arthritis is degenerative (the nurse had explained to me that meant it would only get worse, never better!), I feel I have nipped in the bud arthritis which would probably have shown up elsewhere as I age.

    The bottom line is this: we have to EDUCATE OURSELVES and surround ourselves with experts in their respective fields who we feel are not caught up in the system. It is the only way the average person won’t get screwed!

  • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

    TO ALL: DON”T BUY UNTIL YOU SEE OUR (WE THE REAL PEOPLE, NOT THE POLITICIANS, WHICH WAS MET) BLOOD IN THE STREETS BECAUSE THAT DAY IS CONING SOON!

  • Bill C.

    Any government benefit you receive is ALWAYS paid for with an exchange of your freedom. “THE ONLY FREE CHEESE IS IN THE TRAP!”

  • Carol

    BO has CHANGED everything just like he promiced but when he was on the road to being President nobody ever asked what he was going to CHANGE and now we know our freedoms in general especially our FREEDOM of SPEECH.

    Our freedoms are free until they are take away and get them will cost more than we can ever afford.

  • Carol

    The one who really trapped us is BO and he is enjoying every minute of it and that is a fact.

  • Carol

    You have gotten that so right but I only hope the only blood we see and not literally is BO’s and that is him being kicked out of office he should have never gotten in the first place.

  • Richard Pawley

    Not JUST the dollar but the dollar will likely be the first major fiat currency to go. A time is coming, and I go into some detail about this in my politically incorrect book, “The Last Days of the Late Great United States” when all currency will be overprinted, wiped out, and reduced to the pretty paper it sometimes is. First we will see both inflation in food and fuel, and deflation in many other areas. The inflation will continue. Governments, already running out of money, will first tax the rich and then the well-off, then the middle class and eventually everyone. Already it is projected that under the health care bill they are discussing there will be a 4 to 8% tax on incomes to pay for it, and that a family of four will have to pay as much as 15,000 within a decade to get this impoverished government health care. Smarter men than I see a major tax revolt coming when masses of people will simply say ‘enough is enough’ and at that point, life as we know will change to a degree that can only be guessed at. Things that are real will be back in style and it will be a “Brave New World”. If you prepare it will be much better than if you do not. However, all will be affected and the only good that I see coming is that we will have (our of necessity) a simply way of life, not dominated by things, and when there is no one to turn to some will be blessed to discover that they can always turn to God. “No one who turns to Me will I ever turn away” was spoken long ago. It is still true and soon there is going to be a big difference between those who have done this and those who have not. Have a great Thanksgiving! This is likely to be one of our last “normal” ones. May God bless us all and may He allow us all time to prepare for what is now inevitable, whether we want to believe it or not. According to my read of the cryptic words of Revelation, the coming world leader of the new world government, that will be formed after the one world currency is established, after the world wide crash, will be a banker. Obviously this will not happen overnight. The Bible does say that without his mark (read microchip, or if this takes a generation or two it might be a micro-computer) that no one can buy or sell. Generals, presidents, and kings have little interest in buying or selling, other than what they need, but that is what banks and bankers are all about. Remember, you can always pray, and there is nothing you can do to make God love you more than He already does.

  • Richard Pawley

    I do not know about the others but George Washington believed in the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible and when he discovered the truth about the Masons (whatever that is) he withdrew from them.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    Masonery believes in a higher being, not a lower being. don’t know where you get your information but you should check your source. all the men you named believed in GOD.

  • Richard Pawley

    Marty, if we were ever a Christian nation we are not any longer. We have chosen the way of ancient Israel (to go our own way and do our own thing). God forbid them to sacrifice their babies on the altars of Baal but we have sacrificed 50,000,000 on the altar of Hedonism. We have those in Congress who feel they have no need of any God but the one of their imagination and others who spit in His eye (so to speak). What is coming is going to be far worse than the Great Depression and I seldom even say how bad I think it will really get because people tend to just dismiss it because their minds can’t grasp it. I suspect, however, that you already know that the key to positive change is prayer. Prayer can change the world but it must first change your world. I don’t know where you live, hopefully not in Los Angeles (according to The Bible Code there is a very high probability of a really major earthquake in the next ten months there)or any major city but soon the most valuable investments are going to be food and water and fuel. Although I have no doubt that gold is going to go up another 50% I suspect that in the following few years food is going to go up far more than that, and fuel will be close behind. I know of one college professor who recently sold his investments and bought a multi-year food supply. If you come to believe these things I have written about for several years now you can begin to learn about non-perishable foods, whole grains, making your own flour and your own bread, a host of things along these lines that will make life in the future livable and probably healthier. It is not going to be easy but you can always pray. Pray that God works His will on Congress (some might quit and some might retire and some might die) but pray for yourself and your own family as well. As I said somewhere in this series begin to prepare like you were a pioneer who had no supermarkets to go to or money to spend. It will be difficult but with God’s help all things are possible.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    James madison said”congress powers are few and defined” Article 1 Section 8 of the constitution defines the poiwers of congress,The only powers, and what they can spend money for. they have been robbing the treasury for years. they have no power to spend on earmarks, health care or anything not named in art 1 sect 8.

  • diane elizabeth ballou

    thankyou.

  • diane elizabeth ballou

    Thankyou!

  • Rod

    Face it. The Govt. has never been able to manage anything! The reason?
    They are worried about their MONEY and POWER. Take the health care bill, it’s not about our health! It’s about taking our freedom of choice away from us. It’s about TYRANNY. We are so close to it right
    now and the Left radicals are laughing and having a party. All they
    want is Socialism leading to Tyranny. The little Dems. that voted this IDIOT into office have ears, but they don’t hear! They have eyes
    but they don’t see. I believe America is waking up. I have talked to
    some people who voted for this DUDE, they tell me they have had second thoughts and would never make that mistake again. THERE WILL BE TROUBLE IN RIVER CITY!!!!!

  • James

    The truth shall set you free! There is a way out of this mess if you are willing to walk the walk and talk the talk! Let me know if you are interested and I will help put you on the path to Sovereignty and Freedom! No, I am not talking about joining a Militia and blowing them all to Hell. We are all entitled to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness regardless of what they want you to think! There is still a way to be free in an unfree country if you are willing to work just a little bit. Nothing worthwhile comes easy. The price for freedom is eternal vigilence! The knowledge of the truth in all matters both big and small is the most powerful and potent weapon on the face of the earth! You can break the chains of bondage if you will only try and know what to do! Every red blooded American needs this information and then they need to act on it! If this is done by every single concerned Citizen in short order their House of Cards will come tumbling down in a very short order!

  • DaveH

    It’s important for people to know that our Representatives play games. Saturday, the conservative Democrats could have killed the Health Care Bill. But they claim that this is only a preliminary vote and they will probably vote ‘NO’ later. The fact is that it needed 60 votes to progress to floor debate, but later on, if Harry Reid calls for the Nuclear Option, only a raw majority (51) will be required to stop further debate and vote on the Bill. The Democrats from the conservative districts could then vote ‘NO’ and tell their constituents they did so, but it will be too late. Don’t let your Representatives get away with that crap.
    http://capwiz.com/gunowners/issues/votes/?votenum=353&chamber=S&congress=1111

  • http://Apple Peter

    The respondents that I have read all have SOME valid opinions but let’s not be all
    encompassing. Not all people or professionals are dishonest, racist or sex
    centered but many are.

    As far as this so called government is concerned, it is the epitome of “stealth.” I can
    only guess when the populace will wise up and rise up.

    Read Michelle Malkin’s book: ‘CULTURE OF CORRUPTION.”

  • http://www.truth1.org Scott Ervin

    Good reply Berberoni!

    Let me add to it. I have dealt with plenty of lawyers. They do not obey the Bar rules made for them and neither does the Bar. You do not have a right to legal “treatment.” The entire body of lawyers can agree to freeze you out and answer a word, even if you offer them all the money in the world. Well, they go to the highest bidder, anyway. They can and will lie to clients and sell them out and often do so.

    As for the medical profession, it is my opinion, based on books, numerous articles and the like, that the Medical profession and the AMA have outlawed and suppressed many therapies that would likely have cured every malady known to man. Read “Politics in Healing” by Dan Haley and you will see what I am talking about. There are perhaps 5 or 10 cures for cancer but not a one of them allowed.

    as Far as I can tell, the medical industry has only 1 goal. To prevent cures and hasten death. I recall this from X files. “Trust no one!”

  • denniso

    is a reactionary w/ nothing constructive to say. Kathleen is right that the majority of professionals are honest and hardworking people trying to help. We have a very complex society that can’t be understood w/ simplistic cliches.

  • http://none Larry

    Hello all -

    I like many of you have watched with horror at the changes being driven thru our country for the last 30 or 40 years. I agree with you that the system is rotten – the real question being what to do about it.

    I have been looking around the internet to find other groups who seem to be taking an active role of some sort. I am not neccesarily recommending any of these, but thought they might be of interest.

    and I think we are all aware of the work that Glen Beck is doing.

    I can comment on The Evergreen Freedom Foundation (effwa). I have known Bob Williams (co founder) for many years. They are an outstanding group of people, and can well use your support should be so inclined. They took the state teachers union all the way to the US Supreme Court and won – they are that dedicated, professional, and tenacious. They recently sponsored a Glen Beck function in Seattle, that was a huge success. Take a look and see what you think.

  • kilrntex

    Took the words right out of my mouth. The scum that rules our nation will not give up without a fight, so let’s do just that! I say “Save America’s Trees, Plant a Liberal….and a lawyer….and a politician”! They are using up precious air and paper. Look at what comes out of their mouths and minds.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    One salvo, load.

  • Raggs

    I just have to mention this.
    I am so glad to see people waking up to what the government is doing to our freedom’s. I have talked with alot of people on this issue and alot of them are sound asleep and dont care to listen.
    Sad but true..

  • http://conmcast newton king

    And you think the senate won’t approve it for him?

  • eyeswideopen

    The treaty has been killed. No countries will be signing. There was a time frame which has passed.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    The number of people that want the government to take care of them and supply all their needs are increasing each day. They turn out to vote in the politicians that will promise them every thing and we set back and don’t exercise our responsibility to vote, so we end up where we are today. Talking freedom is great, but yo have to take responsibility for that freedom and fight for it every day. freedom is not free.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    They will most likely pass the bill, but then we make them pay for it. then we make sure their replacement understands we are the boss and expect them to do what is right for our country, not their party.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Harry Reid. What a pile of crap.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    the tax system is voluntary for individuals. the booklet you recieve each year gives you a miranda warning in the privacy act printed in the booklet. the irs director in his yearly greeting in the booklet tells you the system is voluntary. if you then file a return you have voluntary given the information and it can be used against you. if you go to the law library and can find a copy of the tax code you will see it only says, when required or if required, the “tax payer” shall or must do certain things. no where does it say an individual is required to do anything. the normal person is led to believe they are talking to them and file. I read the miranda warning and elected to remain silent.

  • DaveH

    Fed Up,
    When they first started talking about the Flat Tax (a little before the concept of the Fair Tax) it was going to take a flat rate of 10% to pay the Government bills. Now I understand it is about 20% for the Fair Tax (I’m sure that applies to Flat Tax also). Whether the taxes are collected by an income tax or a Fair Tax, our biggest problem is the growing bill due to increasing Government spending. I do believe that the Fair Tax would be much smarter than the Income Tax, but for the effort required to pitch it to our Representatives I would much rather spend the time getting the size of Big Government reduced dramatically.

  • eyeswideopen

    Fed up, great comments, totally agree with you. Only problem with the flat tax is that corporations will not agree with that tax. Most people don’t realize that the corporations most of the time don’t pay taxes due to the loopholes and the payouts of dividends to shareholders.The capitalist political economy towards large corporations allows them to “privatize profits and socialize losses”. For further defination see Andrew Jacksons quote made in 1834. This is just what we watched Congress do for Wall Street. Most people don’t realize that in 2006 the Federal government gave 92 billion in corporate subsidies to companies: Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical, etc….the question is WHY? There is supposed to be a 15% Qualified dividend income tax which most domestic corporations utilize. Qualified dividends are not included in Net Investment Income, which means electing to report an amount of the dividend equal to the interest paid as ordinary income, creates the ability to reduce the effective tax rate on those dividends from 15% to zero. Cooperatives allocate dividends by the shareholders activity, then it is considered a pre tax expense. In America right now we have Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor (middle class Americans). The corporations in America will never allow a Fair tax (Flat Tax) as that would mean they would actually have to pay taxes. Revising the tax laws, and doing campaign reform would stop most of the corruption and greed.

  • Annie Ladysmith

    “Whoever will go into captivity, into captivity they will go, whoever will slay with the sword, with the sword they will be slain”. i personally think we have reached this point in history. There is a decision to be made. Stealth has worked just as the Rothschilds and their cronnies had predicted.

    i also think that the US has been literally handed over, by our traitor government, to red China. China owns most of America due to our debts and now they have been given eminent domain. What else could this possibly mean other than China having a carte blanche on our very soil.

    If you are going to fight, make it count. Join a militia, learn a skill, stand your ground, and put your immortal soul into the hands of Yeshua-Jesus, the only Name, the only Savior. DO NOT FEAR THEIR FACES.

    Into captivity? We are not blind to the police state arround us and how people are tazored, literally to death, AFTER they have been handcuffed and “subdued”, and this is the least of it.
    What can we possibly expect at these FEMA camps.

    I have recently discovered, the people ‘detained’ in that stadium in New Orleans were held against their wills. Armed government thugs wouldn’t let anyone leave and wouldn’t let the Red Cross aid trucks in, they were turned away. This was a trial RUN, study it and learn. There is a ‘window of opportunity’ were you can make your decision. I pray we have 10 months to a year left, Copenhagen will be a sign. GET PREPARED!

  • DaveH

    That’s right boomerchick,
    There have been huge gains in productivity, but we don’t see them as ordinary citizens because they have been sucked up by the Government Vacuum Cleaner. I remember around the year 2000 we were having tremendous gains in productivity, and prices of consumer goods (especially electronics) were dropping. Then the Federal Reserve and the Government started gnashing their teeth about the dreaded ‘Deflation’. So the Federal Reserve started pursuing a loose money policy which ultimately manifested itself in price inflation due to more money chasing fewer goods (dollar devaluation). Deflation in prices due to productivity gains is a good thing. The excess money along with other errant Government policies led us to the housing boom and bust.
    But the average citizen thinks the Government is there to save us. They aren’t. They are there to save themselves and party on our money.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Marty

    Thanks, Dave…We will be fine, if we are left alone. We have always worked hard and never asked, or expected, our government to do anything for us other than what our Constitution calls for. I’m not giving up…I keep on signing and faxing and emailing and sending things like pink slips as long as I have any money at all to do so. Recently, I even offered to send them, if they would let me send them and pay for them at the beginning of the month. I just wish we had some idea of what to expect!

    I ran out today to pick up a few odds and ends I needed for our Thanksgiving dinner and the stores are so plentiful and so packed full of everything anyone could ever want…it just doesn’t seem possible that
    we could soon be standing in lines or scrambling for food and necessities. One day, I am in a panic and the next, I am having a difficult time even believing it COULD happen, much less WILL happen….and
    I am one of those inquiring minds” who wants to know!

    I wish for you and all of your families a wonderful Thanksgiving and I am going to thank God for blessing me and mine and this wonderful America that I have been so priviledged to live in and enjoy
    the freedoms our Constitution has given to us and protected for us. God bless America and the American people who love her!

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    I respectfully disagree. Having worked with these guys, and having family who were lawyers and quit because of the disgusting things that the law field does, no you are wrong. The majority are a twisted bunch of rich kids whose daddy’s money sent them to law school, and they feel they are so much better than everyone, and that their crap doesnt stink, and that they are above the law. They are greedy and corrupt, and the allmight dollar is their god. I also know many, many doctors who are this same way. They are alcoholic party monsters, they snort cocaine all the time, and pretty much assume they are above the rest of us. There are a few good ones, but very far and few between. Most of them are rotten. If it wasnt so, people wouldnt feel that way.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    Flat tax, fair tax, they would increase it every year no matter what it is called.

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    Dave H,

    I absolutely agree (about getting the big debt way down NOW)….but I’m also hoping people will start looking at the way people are taxed and for what reasons (yes a nation needs to have revenue for limited social services..for lack of a better phrase…but the key word is “limited” social services and “limited” taxation. Right now, it just seems to me a more reasonable taxation…if there is such a thing.

    Fed Up Gal

  • http://conmcast newton king

    the federal reserve is not a part of government, they are a private bank that congress gave the power to control our money. they will do what is necessary to keep their profits up. they know when rates are going up or down and can profit either way. nice place to be, no wonder they don’t want to be audited.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    And they have been partying hardy for many years now.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    Marty, you are like millions of americans, we can do our duty for future generations by exercising our rights and responsibilities as free citizens and see that the leaders in the future understand that they work for the people, not a party. for too long we have set back and let some one else vote, some one else complain. it is time to stop takeing our freedoms for granted and work to be sure they will be there for our kids and grand kids. we can do what ever is necessary to hold this country the way it is supposed to be.we can do it peacefully unless they force us to do otherwise. hang in there friend, things will get better in time.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    I hear you, loud and clear. Amen.

  • shon

    It is worse than you think. What you describe is well known to heal on its own at least 80% of the time. I am a neurosurgeon, and i have had exactly your symptoms 3 times now over the past 5 years or so. I have never had an MRI. No need. The diagnosis is purely clinical, so the MRI is solely fro surgical planning. All 3 times, I have gotten better within 4 to 6 months without any intervention. So not only did you not need cortisone shots or surgery, you didn’t need the MRI, and you didn’t need Gary Null’s book (though I haven’t read it, so it may very well contain some very useful info), and you didn’t need the few bottles of vitamins and minerals, now of which you buy online at about 40% off (though they certainly aren’t going to hurt you. Like I said, what you experienced heals on its own over 8o% of the time doing absolutely nothing. The bottom line? You did the right thing. Surgery should be the absolute last option if everything else fails, including giving the body several months to heal on its own. Unfortunately, not every surgeon will tell you that, so you are absolutely correct that you have to do your own research. Eat right, keep your core strong, you will do just fine. I just wish more patients were like you. Most just want someone else (i.e. me) to fix them at somebody else’s expense so they can continue to make poor lifestyle choices. I spend the vast majority of my time talking people out of surgery rather than signing them up for it.

  • DaveH

    Good Comment Shon.

  • DaveH

    I may be wrong Newton, but I think the Senate didn’t ratify the Kyoto Treaty.

  • DaveH
  • Bruce

    Dear Folks, Much of what has been posted is just what the Jews In Germany were thinking in the 1930′s. Then as the end of 1938 hit the trucks started pulling up to their homes and loading them in, then off to camps for the not wanted folks to never be seen again.

    We go along the same path yet we miss the signs over and over again. When the end comes, and it will not be long now, I hope you all just recall that special time in Germany from 1933 – 1945 when not just millions of Jews were killed, just as many millions of Christians as well.
    This time its anyone with a brain, but we will go second, first off will be all the freeloaders that aided them, afterall its a case of take out the trash before it stinks to much. A Leason learned, and learned very well.
    The Nazi’s were a dry run for what is to come, {you must understand the past to grasp the future.}
    Thanks for reading and all of you Have a Safe ThanksGiving.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Thank you. They dont bother me at all.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    Dave, they have majority, they will approve anything he wants.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    Private, Dave, they do not come under any branch of the U.S.government.

  • eyeswideopen

    shon, I am sorry for the horrendous treatment you received from DaveH. You are not unusual in that respect. I have previously voted for Ron Paul in 1988 and 1992. However after experiencing the disrespect and learning Dave’s interpretation of the Libertarian platform, I will not vote for your party again. The elitist attitude comes across forcefully when he is dismissing you while calling you names. I want to be associated with a party who gives equal treatment and respect to everyone regardless of gender, race or social/fiscal status. I have asked him numerous times, how the Libertarians would prevent anarchy and he has not responded. What and how would your party make government smaller? What services do they propose to cut? How would they prevent the corporations from running the government like they are today? Hands clapping for your response to DaveH. I am a Republican who doesn’t buy into the party line of obstructionism or the Conservative line of religious fervor dictating our government policies. On this site they have tagged me as a Liberal, and I admit I was laughing that they did the same to you. Have a Happy Thanksgiving you Liberal !!! LMAO. LoL.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Nope. The two bills clearly state, that over 4300 were for the doctors bill, and the other bill for 4400 something was what they called the facility charge, for using that facility at Orthopaedics North East, (O.N.E.). Its a crock, but Ive got the bills, and I know what was paid. I also know I paid some 800.00 of it out of my pocket.
    And I know it too well, because a couple of years later, my son had a meniscus arthroscopic surgery, then again two years later where they took all the meniscus out, and both of them were the same thing, in the 8000 dollar range, with half being the doctors bill and half being the facility charge. Theyve got it all set up, and its a racket.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    No, I can read. The doctors bill was over 4300.00. And the facility charge was over 4400.00. In and out of surgery in 45 minutes, in and out of the facility in less than 3 hours total. And I went through two of these with my son, at age 16 and again at age 17, and both of them were 8 thousand bucks. All three of them, cost me in the 800.00 range out of pocket expense, and my insurance paid the rest. But let there be no mistake, it was over 8 grand for each surgery, with half being labeled “doctors bill”, and the other half being labeled “facility charge”. I dont know why someone would call me a liar, or say Im mistaken, as I fully know what the costs were, and thats why Im saying its a rip off. Yes, it was over 8 grand per surgery, all three arthroscopic surgery. And arthroscopy is different. That is where they just go in and look around. The surgery is where they fix what they found was wrong.

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    Dennis H,

    You summed it up quite nicely! Thanks for your comments.

    Fed Up Gal

  • http://www.stanelaine.com Stan

    Response to Bruce,
    In support of your comments about the ‘Holocaust’ I just wanted to briefly share some experiences with you. While living in Germany. I knew several Holocaust survivors. One elderly lady lived next door, her stories had me in tears. I later visited some of the death camps and I wept, as the British & American soldiers did when they were liberating these poor souls. My wife, at the time, was German and I had many German friends. We all agreed that ‘Nazism’ is evil and the crimes committed are unforgivable. I later learned about the GULAGS in the (then) USSR, where 50 million prisoners perished in the hundreds of labor camps of the GULAG system throughout the northern hemishere of the USSR. And millions more were killed throughout the Russian revolutionary turmoil. Life under ‘Socialism’ caused unimaginable mass misery. Similar horrors were repeated under various other ‘isms’ Facism, Marxism ad infinitum, ad nauseum. The “isms” under one umbrella are actually ‘Collectivism’ Same evil, different masters. We are now about to repeat history here in the USA as this present government is leading our nation into the same pit of hell…I hope the spirit of good American people has been underestimated by this evil Corporate elite that are controlling our government. Regardless of whether one believes in God or not..we certainly are going to need his help.
    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Maybe you mean big giant corporations, but the one I work for definately pays taxes, and they pay a lot of them. I know I wouldnt want to have to pay that much. So Im not sure where you get that they dont pay taxes. Do they not have Federal Income tax, State, Local, social security, Medicare and Medicaid taxes taken out of their employees checks? Do you not consider that as this company creating tax revenue by hiring more people that pay these taxes? And I also know that when they make a profit, they pay taxes on that profit. So what then are you saying?

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    EYES,

    Never say Never….

    Fed Up Gal

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    I also believe there is a cure to cancer, but it has become such big business fighting it, that too many people making big bucks in the high places of so called fighting it, that the cure will never be revealed, as too many of these big dollars cats wont be needed anymore, or would their organizations. If the cure was out there, all the Vera Bradley millions that are donated wouldnt be needed and they would go away. All the millions from the Susan G. Komen foundation would go away, The American Cancer Society would no longer be needed, and all these jobs would go away, so its become such a big business, that they arent going to endanger their jobs. It is in their interests to keep collecting money and getting a paycheck. I fully believe this.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    We actually had an Amish “doctor” around here, that was helping people right and left by prescribing different herbs and vegetables, and he was curing people that had spent thousands of dollars at the doctors offices, and under gone tremendous monetary bills of treatments, and still had the same problems. They heard about this Amish guy, and a couple of weeks into his treatments, for pennies on the dollar, they were healed. The medical community heard of this guy, and had him shut down for practicing medicine without a license, when he wasnt prescribing any medicine, just natural herbs. Amazing isnt it?

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    The road to hell is paved with “good intentions”.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    The federal income tax was set up by Roosevelt as voluntary to help with the war effort. It was never ratified and put into being a law. But there is no way around not paying it, as no business will let you not pay it, because they dont want to battle the IRS. Some people put down 18 dependants to have hardly anything taken out, but then they get in trouble for falsifying a tax return, and now they have violated the law by lying on a tax return. So there is no way to beat this guys.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    The democrats would, no doubt about that.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    I would find a flat tax, or a fair tax, that is only charged when you purchase something to be a fair way to tax, as long as there are no loopholes. It is what it is. That way if I go out and buy a 400.00 boat, I can pay my 17% or whatever it is. Then if John Kerry goes out and buys a 4 million dollar yacht, he can pay his 17%. This I would find fair, as 17 percent is 17 percent. Its equal for all. This I would be all for, again, like I said, If there are no loopholes in it that allow those of a certain amount of money to get discounted because of the amount of the purchase. 17% means 17%, no ifs, ands, or butts about it.

  • Fed Up Gal in NM

    Beberoni,

    Yes….I agree; my understanding of the fair tax “plan” is exactly how you described. I could live with a flat tax too; at least it’s a start in the right direction….since [for and using your example]..1-17% of nothing would still be nothing…and 1-17% of a lot…is a lot more! I just think the fair tax plan is the most reasonable tax plan proposed. Here’s the website to review the fair tax plan in more detail:

    http://www.fairtax.org

    I also think lowering taxes will spur business growth and significantly improve the economy, since history has shown us people will spend when they feel confident they know what they’ll have to work with (for spending and saving) from year to you.

    I also think it should be a multi-prong approach: 1. Fairer Tax Rates; 2. Drastic reduction in government; 3. Reduce our dependency on foreign oil (drill here…drill now)!

    Guess I could go on with my list, but not sure it would help…since our current representatives in D.C…..can’t seem to multi-task anyway.

    Hope you and your family enjoyed your Thanksgiving!

    Fed Up Gal

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Thing is, if they dont believe in Jesus Christ, they are barking up the wrong tree. Ive been told by a mason I worked with, that they believe they are their own god. Dont know if thats true, but thats what the guy told me.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    It is going to get worse. But as a full believer in Jesus Christ and the things to come, where do you get this Bible Code stuff? You do know, those were just movies, dont you? The Bible does say in the end times there will be more fires, and earthquakes and floods, and those days are now. But Bible Code? I dont think so.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    We do not want anything to happen to Barack. Have you at all looked at what is in the wings? Joe Biden. Nancy Pelosi. Oh man, just when you thought it couldnt get any worse. It could get worse.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Of course they have eyes that dont see, and ears that dont hear, or they wouldnt condone and pay for murdering babies in their mothers wombs either.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Dont mention Glenn Beck to the left. They are scared to death of him. They fear anyone who speaks the truth when they open their mouth.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    Sure there is, stop volunteering.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Newt, baby. Its like this. I dont volunteer. They just take it. How about you. Or you gettin a free ride.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    since masons belong to many religions, they must believe in a higher being. if they don’t believe in “GOD” they cannot be a mason. GOD is the same regardless what we call him. Also, Washington did not withdraw from the masons.

  • Joe H.

    berberoni,
    That guy you were working with was full of it clear to his ears and beyond!!! My father was a mason for over 50 years (I still have his rings)and you would have never found a more god loving man anywhere!!! He was a deacon of the first baptist church of Adrian Michigan and all who knew him knew he was a strong believer in Jesus/God!! Either that guy was an idiot or you are VERY gullible!!!

  • http://conmcast newton king

    That s why they should be required to read the constitution before they sign any bills to see if they have the authority to do so.

  • http://conmcast newton king

    Very true, it doesn’t have to be violent change, just change. that is what BO promised and now we have to show him some real change, peacefully. exercise your responsibility to vote and change everything.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Good fishing in Canada, not much else. Good beer, but you can get it here.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Sorry, I have to disagree. God is Jesus Christ. One and the same. If you dont have the Son, you dont have the Father.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    I have to agree Newt. I really dont think the majority of them are aware of just how our Constitution actually reads. You would think it would be mandated of them. I mean, are they not when elected charged with upholding the Constitution? And if they dont know it, how then can they uphold it, not fully knowing what it contains?

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Very good Newt. You sir are correct. More and more are willingly dependant on the government, and the government is more than willing to slap this small staple of goods into their awaiting hands, to keep them down in their place, and these people dont even see it.

  • Joe H.

    Berberoni,
    Simple answer, Next time go to a mechanic to get it done!!!! Mechanic school= 2 to 3 years and 30,000 med School and surgeon residency = 100,000 Sounds like they gave you a bargain to me!!!! you didn’t lose your leg and they didn’t operate on the wrong one did they???

  • Joe H.

    DaveW,
    the Dr.s you describe are thankfully far and few between. Thyere are very few Dr.s that would prolong the agony of a liver ailment in the fear of the patient going for a second opinion and losing his license!!!

  • Joe H.

    Berberoni,
    you better watch it or Eyes will turn her wrath on YOU!!!! mmmmwwwwaaaaa!!

  • Jerry

    Wow! This this comment really ran the distance. From money policy to Arthritis to the Russian Gulags. But, getting back to money, taxes, Federal Reserve policy and the ‘bailout’… Did you hear the one about AIG paying back 25 billion in bailout loans. Wonderful, right? Did you hear how they sold off 25 Billion of the company to pay it? Do you knoe who bought it? We did! In the form of the Federal Reserve. That’s right. We loaned them the money and then, so the nObama could extend his lies, we bought the debt back. We took 25 Billion and loaned it to AIG and then took paid them another 25 Billion to retire the debt. Then the congress and nObama proceeded to ram HR1388 through. That’s the bill, (now law) wherein we put up 20 Million to resettle Gaza strip terrorists here to the United States. All expenses, airfare, housing, living expenses all paid for by we no benevolent, arrogant uncaring Americans who are no longer Christians and no longer worried about those in the world who have vowed their very lives to destroy us and our way of life. Thank you Mr. President. I’m already old but, I hope I live long enough to piss on your grave you Communist Muslim Pig.

  • http://bit.ly/b7wYot Deandre Killingsworth

    […] http://www.personalliberty.com/civil-liberty/the-stealth-system – The Stealth System | Personal Liberty Digest… The Mark IX Condominium at Breckenridge islocated 3/4 Mile from Main Street, with an hourly Summit Stage stop at the end of the driveway. read more at http://www.westweeks.com/ [...]

  • http://cigaretteelectronic.weebly.com Jaime Landerman

    I started out smoking while I was just a kid. That turned out to be the most unfortunate wrong move I’ve made. Now 30 years down the road and I have bronchitis. While looking to stop smoking, I came upon the e cigs and will try it out. With some luck, it will assist me with this depressing dependence.

  • Harold

    wrong again Robert, the wall is necessary to protect America by keeping those out who have no right to be here. Why do you tell the big lie about it being to keep us in? Totally irresponsible.

  • http://interiordesignersalary.net interior design salaries

    From the look of it good job on all the points at the top. The interior designer salary was great if individuals like designing.

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