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The Slow March To Fascism

November 12, 2012 by  

The Slow March To Fascism

Liberty is seldom lost in one fell swoop. It is eroded away over time. Then, one day, a nation that was once free finds itself in bondage.

It is called gradualism. I have written before about how gradualism reduces the shock potential and numbs the senses to the reality that is transpiring all around.

America was never freer than when it was under the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union from March 1, 1781 until March 4, 1789, when the Articles were replaced with the U.S. Constitution. But the ink was hardly dry on the Articles before advocates for increased centralization of government powers were calling for a stronger document.

The natural order is a migration from freedom to tyranny. Anti-Federalists tried to warn Americans of the dangers of a centralized government. But Federalists made a persuasive argument that the Constitution would be followed by a Bill of Rights that would guarantee the centralized government would be restrained and then almost immediately began tearing down the Constitution’s walls and changing the meaning of its language.

In the 223 years since the ratification of the U.S. Constitution, America has moved toward a fascist totalitarianism in fits and starts. Elites in government, like the British mercantilist Founding Father and first Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton, already understood the Federal Treasury could be used to feather their own nest and the nests of their cronies. Hamilton was one of the first and strongest advocates for establishment of a U.S. National Bank and government debt.

Hamilton argued that government debt fully funded by tax revenues was a form of “capital” that was as good as gold and would be traded on the open market. He wanted a large national debt because of “its tendency to strengthen our infant government by increasing the number of ligaments between the government and the interests of individuals.” In other words, Hamilton sought to tie the interests of the more affluent citizens to the State. As primary bondholders, they would have an interest in continued borrowing and continued tax increases to ensure that they would be paid their principal and interest. [1]

By the early 1800s, Hamilton and his Federalist Party cronies in Congress had run the Federal debt up to $83 million. It would be 30 years before the last Treasury bond was paid off and the United States was debt-free. President Andrew Jackson announced on Jan. 1, 1835 the government would have a positive balance of $440,000 and America would be “at peace with the world.” [2]

Two years later, the Panic of 1837 hit and deficit spending pushed the debt back to $16 million by 1845. Financing the war with Mexico drove debt up to $63 million. Financing the War of Northern Aggression ran the debt to $2.8 billion. President Woodrow Wilson ballooned the debt to $26 billion. President Franklin D. Roosevelt exploded it to $260 billion by 1945. After the war, the debt was reduced gradually until 1960. Since then, the debt has steadily increased. It now stands in excess of $16 trillion. [3]

Wars are financed by debt and money printing. If nations were required to operate wars on a pay-as-you-go basis, they would end quickly. Lobbing billion-dollar missiles at enemy positions, losing multi-billion aircraft to anti-aircraft fire and massing hundreds of thousands of soldiers and the materiel necessary to arm and sustain them eats quickly into the national treasury.

Wars also lead to loss of liberty in the name of public safety.

The Alien and Sedition Acts were four bills passed in 1798 by the Federalists in the 5th U.S. Congress during an undeclared naval war with France. They were signed into law by the “liberty-minded” Founding Father and second President John Adams.

Twenty-five people were arrested and 10 were convicted under the Acts. Among them was Benjamin Franklin Bache, grandson of Benjamin Franklin. As editor of a Republican newspaper, Bache’s “crime” was accusing George Washington of incompetence and financial irregularities and John Adams of nepotism and monarchical ambition.

Another arrested was Congressman Matthew Lyon of Vermont. His arrest led to the arrest of others for simply advocating on his behalf. Anthony Haswell, a Revolutionary War veteran and editor of the Vermont Gazette, was imprisoned for placing ads in Vermont newspapers requesting donations to help pay Lyon’s fines. The Rev. John C. Ogden carried a petition to Philadelphia asking for Lyon’s release and was imprisoned for his troubles. Curiously, no Federalists were ever arrested under the Acts. [4]

At the outset of the unCivil War, President Abraham Lincoln violated the U.S. Constitution and suspended habeas corpus. He then imprisoned citizens, writers, editors, politicians and whole legislatures that opposed his war on the Confederacy. As a railroad lawyer, Lincoln also viewed the railroad industry favorably. Many of his friends and conies in the burgeoning railroad business prospered greatly from the U.S. Treasury during Lincoln’s reign. It increased as Lincoln moved to fiat “greenbacks” to finance the war debt. Graft and corruption between the railroad industry, politicians and government bureaucrats was rampant for years after Lincoln’s death.

During World War II, 110,000 Japanese Americans were interred in “War Relocation Camps” simply for being Japanese and living in the wrong place — the Western United States — following the attack on Pearl Harbor. Interestingly, Japanese Americans living in Hawaii were not imprisoned.

FDR knew from his own investigation that the vast majority of those imprisoned were loyal and faithful Americans. He also had a report from J. Edgar Hoover, based on documents pilfered from Japanese consular offices that described Japan’s U.S. spy system. So the arrests were political rather than strategic.

FDR also considered interning large numbers of German and Italian immigrants. But he needed the votes of German Americans and Italian Americans to win re-election. He also wanted to carry California. Many Californians despised the Japanese Americans and saw them as good for nothing more than migrant labor. So he announced that migrants from Italy would not be labeled enemy aliens and would not be harassed. But he went forward with internment of the Japanese. [5]

He also had another advantage his predecessors did not possess: the Federal Reserve. The Fed, which caused the Great Depression with its loose money policies, was an unlimited piggy bank for FDR to use buy off special interests. These policies both deepened and lengthened the Depression.

The price and wage controls, overzealous interpretation of the commerce clause and threats directed at Supreme Court justices by FDR were the worst assaults on the Constitution and liberty since Lincoln’s actions 70 years earlier. His big government welfare policies were expanded upon by Lyndon Baines Johnson in his “War on Poverty.” Subsequent “wars” on drugs and terror have grown the State — and the prison population — exponentially.

A column by Jim Fedako that recently appeared at is illustrative of how fascism takes over our lives.

This example is instructive. An authoritarian state needs fear in order to hold consent. And that fear must be reinforced on a regular basis. An attitude similar to that of the American volunteers from two decades ago must be continually extinguished. Such a spirit — one that challenges authority — is perceived as a threat to the state because it is a threat to the state. So the masses must be made act submissive before any and all agents of the state. All dissent must be squashed before it takes root.

In an accelerated pace, the fear of the state is overtaking this nation, with the proud strut of liberty being replaced by the cautious shuffle of statism. And I have found myself a victim as well.

On a recent trip with my older children, we faced the agents of the state at the airport security line. As we proceeded through the various checkpoints, I noticed that the agents joked but the masses lowered or diverted their eyes. No one wanted to upset an agent who has the ability to ruin a vacation, at the very least.

On the other side of the x-ray machines, we began to collect our personal belongings. All seemed in order until one of the agents pointed and asked, “Whose bag is that?” Well, it was my son’s, so I replied, “That bag is with me. I’m responsible for it.”

His voice rose in anger, “Whose bag is it?” Again, I replied that I was responsible for the bag.

The agent pointed and asked his question louder. And I lowered my eyes and finked on my twelve year-old son. “it’s his,” I replied.

My son was separated from me and interrogated while his bag was inspected. So there I stood, a middle-age man, without shoes, belt in hand, watching my son subjected to questioning from an angry adult who knew nothing would be found in the bag. And I could not help.

Given a choice between the man who signed the National Defense Authorization Act into law and a man who supports it wholeheartedly, between the man who signed an extension to the USA Patriot Act and a man who supports it wholeheartedly, between the man who has ordered drone attacks to assassinate Americans and a man who believes it’s a proper use of Presidential authority, between the man who “led from behind” the regime change in Libya and is arming (al-Qaida and Muslim Brotherhood) terrorists in Syria and a man who believes its proper to use the American military to overthrow legitimate governments, and between the man who has tightened sanctions on Iran and a man who’s ready to invade that country on Israel’s command, more than 9 million voters chose to stay home.

Unfortunately, almost 130 million Americans voted for fascism.

[1] DiLorenzo, Thomas J., Hamilton’s Curse, pp. 38-45.

[2] Ibid. pp. 49-50.

[3] Ibid. pp. 51-53.

[4] Ibid. pp 49-50.

[5] Folsom, Burton W. Jr. and Folsom, Anita, FDR Goes to War, pp. 226-229

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • ron . r

    So leading from behind without loss of life is worse than leading from the front and costing lives. Like in Iran. I wonder how long you would have kept troops in Vietnam ? Did you think Reagan was leading from behind and running when or Marines died in the barracks bombing? I seem to remember Reagan pulling out. But being he was Reagan we can only assume that he was right.

    Some in this country mask their hate of the President and who he is with a so called love of the country. They assume they are the only ones that love this great Nation. If you agree with them you are a great American, if you don’t agree with them then you are the other, the socialist, Kenyan, Mau Maul, hating America liberal. (Or worse) I heard this, or something like this from of all people Liz Cheney. Liz Cheney, whose father had no less than 5 draft deferments from Vietnam because (for one reason) he was a father, like he would have been the only father in Vietnam? He (Cheney) is like so many who call for war as long as they themselves do not have to be in the fight. It’s ok to send farm boys, urban youth, and other so called takers to fight and die. That’s why they hate there is no draft.

    Yes, B. Obama is the president and yes true to form there are some who disagree with his politics, that my friend is the American way. He is not above that, no one is. If you want to hold office, then deal with the disagreements as well as the agreements. What is un-American is when of all the men who have held the office , this one is black and according to some (ultra-conservatives) was not born in the USA , and should have never gone to Harvard. (Not smart enough) Romney is smart enough though. So you can come back with the line that you love this country and that’s why you do what you do. you can say or hint that Obama stole the election. My advice to to you and others is to get out the vote in 2016 , but first find a conservative to run, not an extreamist.Until then.

    Get over it Bob. It’s only 4 years. You survived Bush / Cheney.

    • http://yahoo jill sparks

      You will eat those words…

      • Rosegarten

        I agree with Ron. What is happening to you today, Jill, are the bitter words you have spoken are set before you.. You need to taste your words before you spit them out.

      • DaveH

        The bitterness I see comes from your comment, Rosegarten.

      • eddie47d

        You could very well be correct Rosegarten. As the article pointed out the Republicans have traditionally had internal spates and infighting. That was interesting about Benjamin Franklin Bache where a Republican tried to take on George Washington a most Nobel and respected leader. Today they are still throwing ridiculous accusations around and seeing where they will stick..

      • Paul Wells

        I agree, the harsh words and divisiveness seems to be coming from Rosegarten. And to eddie, the perpetual complainer, not all the time when someone yells “fire” is it a drill!

      • eddie47d

        The problem with you Paul is not only do you yell fire you bring the matches.

      • Sam Adams

        Jill your correct. But first we have to stop arguing about the same opinion. First we must learn to Identify our enemy, if your going to do somethingabout them. The democrat and republican national party are the enemy. They have completely silenced their opposion. They have completely taken over dc and the Congress, Judicial branch. They are in 100% of the military industrial complex and all other depts. They are quickly taking over the state govts, along with town policy. They are moving quickly with town planners to implement ICLEI and Agenda 21 UN programs, controllong all Land rights, water and developement, farms, groceries, travel and highways, recreation, hunting fishing, rivers and lakes, local economies, transportion[deliveries], They control local police policies, town govts, schools, EPA rules, landfills, forest, etc. Stop bickering

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear ron.r,

      This response is a non sequitur.

      Best wishes,

      • Robert Smith

        Try this for a response:

        Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
        By Dr. Lawrence Britthttp ://

        Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

        “1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism – Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.”

        Who wears “America” on their sleeve as if they invented it?

        “2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights – Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.”

        The war on women..
        Illegal aliens

        “3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause – The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.”

        Again, illegal aliens.

        “4. Supremacy of the Military – Even when there are widespread
        domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.”

        Giving the Pentagon money it doesn’t want / need.

        “5. Rampant Sexism – The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.”

        War on women.

        “6. Controlled Mass Media – Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.”

        Bain owns Chear Channel and Rush, etc.
        Fox news.
        The cry to end PBS

        “7. Obsession with National Security – Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.”

        Homeland security.

        “8. Religion and Government are Intertwined – Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.”

        Let’s hear it from them there right wing christians and their brutal god.

        “9. Corporate Power is Protected – The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.”

        Corporations are “people.” Go Koch brothers.

        “10. Labor Power is Suppressed – Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.”

        Yup, that’s from the extreme right.

        “11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts – Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.”

        Oh wow! Big one here.

        “12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment – Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.”

        Homeland security and TSA.

        “13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption – Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.”

        Skull & Bones! Who’s skull did they steal?

        “14. Fraudulent Elections – Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.”

        And with voter ID cards the latest in the right’s effort to steal elections…


      • DaveH

        Right off the bat, Robert, you lose credibility with these words — “Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany)….”.
        Hitler was a Socialist, the Leader of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, and throughout his reign he proceeded to meddle further into business until ultimately he took complete control (Socialism):

      • DaveH

        Robert says — “And with voter ID cards the latest in the right’s effort to steal elections”.
        Correct me if I’m wrong (and cite references please), Robert, but isn’t it the Liberal Progressives who are always behind the push for National IDs?
        So why the switcheroo to complaining about voting IDs? Do you have a problem with the prevention of fraudulent votes? I guess that would make sense coming from a Liberal Progressive who thinks other peoples’ money are his for the taking.

      • KG

        The Nazis were Socalists like the KKK was a social group. They were socialist only for those deserving of the state honor – like Aryans and “pure” Germans. You idiots who keep spouting “socialism” like its a curse word need to actually think for a moment.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Robert Smith, so instead of being grateful to the American people that provide for the government goodies that you get, you mock and threaten the taxpayers.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        KG, Socialism is a curse on a nation. It means a nation is in decline and the prevailing attitude is why bother working because it will be taken away by parasites.

      • Caveman101

        Robert Smith,

        Your quoted studies of facism seem to selectively overlook the primary one: the loss of freedoms and freedom.

        1. Your characteristics listed may perhaps also simply define patriotism, ie not every sign of patriotism is fascist.
        2.Which human rights, those you support or all human rights? The rights of the conceived but unborn? The rights of the born but left to die? The imaginary war on women is being conducted by a federal government that is inflating away the very lives of the working class. Gitmo is populated by enemy combatants, several of which upon being released immediately took up arms against us again. In our efforts to be humanitarian we invite our own demise. There is defining truth in the difference in the word illegal
        3. You must have missed Obama’s use of the words “revenge” and “enemies” describing his fellow Americans.
        4. The military protects your and my rights and right to be here with the ability to freely express ourselves. They are to be thanked and not left to die in Benghazi or spat upon by your party during Vietnam.
        5. Sexism, the Romney governorship was much more integrated than the current administraiton.
        6. The covered up lies of CBS (Obama’s debate use of terrorism, and the Trayvon Martin editing of tapes) means the “controlled” mass media is the one that is PRO_GOVERNMENT. You may not like their opinions but they, to your dismay, are definitely NOT supporting the government. Right. The problem is the anti-government radicals of the sixties have become the “the govenment can do no wrong” establishment today.
        7.HSA needs to be sunsetted every year, and only continued with an up or down vote. But we have been attacked, which argues against your weakening the military and intelligence apparatus. They have kept us save and by the way THEY killed Bin Laden.
        8. Simply laughable. You may acknowledge the presence of the church, but across the board, including Obamacare, the church is being persecuted by the secularists. It is way past live and let live, unless you want to be Muslim or Wiccan.
        9. Koch is a private enterprise. Facism would be the likes of Solyndra, support of labor unions. All these things are above the rule of law, which you seem to forget that once begun is impossible to reverse. The pendulum swings.
        10. Suppression of “labor” or entities that are the labor unions. Labor unions are not the check on the government, free people and the Second Amendment are. And what is worse than “forced” participation in a union I do not believe in.
        11. Disdain for empowering any political viewpoint. Forced funding of the sacred cows of your art or the academic establishment is not freedom.
        12. See comments above on HSA. The biggest crime in this country is our so called “public education” which has robbed generations of Americans AND IMMIGRANTS of a meaningful life.
        13. Please! The Chicago machine hates legitimate business yets loves Solyndra, GE, John Corzine and the big banks. Ask yourself why after four years has the Obama administration not prosecuted the creators of the financial collapse on Wall Street? Whose pocket are they in?
        14. Voter ID cards are protections of our voting rights NOT threats.

        Your partisanship is blinding you. The very thing you seem to fear in the word facism comes with increasing centralized government power. Please at least consider the path you are advocating.

      • Flashy

        “Right off the bat, Robert, you lose credibility with these words — “Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany)….”.
        Hitler was a Socialist, the Leader of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, and throughout his reign he proceeded to meddle further into business until ultimately he took complete control (Socialism):” <— DaveH accompanied by his usual Mises link.

        Obviously you have little knowledge of political theory…try reading and learning once in awhile DaveH…something more than Casper the Friendly Ghost comic books …

      • DaveH

        Wow, another equivocal comment from the Liberal Progressive Administration Shill Flashman.
        That was so convincing, Flashman.
        Tell us another Sniper story.

      • Flashy

        Nothing equivocal about my comment Dave H. Your comments about fascism plainly shows you know little about political theory…

      • MNIce

        Robert Smith, the “war on women” is a propaganda fiction; it exists only in the minds of those who uncritically swallow the lies spread from the smoke-filled rooms of the Democrat National Committee offices. There are other claims you have made of equal absurdity, but given that two of your identifying marks are primarily dependent on this one, your argument is invalid. You are inventing, stretching and distorting facts to fit your hypothesis. It’s too bad this site doesn’t let you edit your posts; you should want to correct or withdraw this one before you lose your credibility with all of the readers.

        Which party blatantly treated women as sex objects in its advertising in the recent presidential election? It wasn’t the Republicans who compared voting for Mr, Obama with losing virginity, or referred to the women’s vote by a part of female anatomy. Which party opposes laws protecting women from the ill effects of abortion? It isn’t the Republicans. Which party wants to keep women infertile so they can be sexually exploited without the consequences of offspring? It isn’t the Republicans who are trying to force everyone to chip in for the contraceptives. Which party insists on high taxes and expanded government spending so women are forced to seek employment to pay the family’s taxes instead of being able to choose whether to work outside the home? It isn’t the Republicans.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Your comments about fascism plainly shows you know little about political theory”.
        You’re showing your ignorace, Flashman. I didn’t comment about Fascism. It’s that darn Public School education of yours, isn’t it, Flashman?

      • Dale left coast

        Robert Smith . . . . you missed the main drivers of fascism . . . SOCIALISM . . . Mussolini invented fascism . . . it is communism light . . . he disapproved of how the Bolcheviks treated the upper classes (they executed them) . . . so his approach as was Uncle Adolphs was to nationalize the businesses and leave the managers and owners there to run them for the State. Mussolini was a huge fan of Marx and Engels . . . and in his own words described many times his dedication to socialist causes. Ditto for the German regeme.
        We of course have statists/fascists in the WH today . . . the only thing “right-wing” about fascism is that it is slightly to the right of Soviet style communism.

      • Flashy

        “Hitler was a Socialist, the Leader of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, and throughout his reign he proceeded to meddle further into business until ultimately he took complete control (Socialism)” <— Dave H.

        Didn't comment on fascism? just cited the most recognized name of fascism as a socialist? A plain display that you have total complete ignorance of political theory…

      • DaveH

        Did you see the word Fascism in my comment, Ignoramus? Who do you think will fall for your equivocation, Flashman?

        Flashman, Folks, is a sterling example of what we’re in for when we let the Liberal Progressives take complete control of our lives.

      • Flashy

        Sigh…OK…have it your way (it’s akin to dealing with a child..i swear)…

        “Your comments about Socialism plainly shows you know little about political theory”.

        Satisfied? I’m surprised you didn’t put up a Mises link…

      • DaveH

        Seek help, Flashman. You are one twisted Liberal Progressive.

      • tlgeer


        “Liberal Progressives take complete control of our lives.”

        The problem with your statement is that liberals/progressives do not want complete control of our lives. And they don’t want anyone else to have complete control of our lives.

        There are people that say that they are libertarians (who wants the least amount of Government interference) that want their personal beliefs to intrude into someone elses lives (abortion, marriage, drugs, etc.) and they see nothing wrong with that.

        The Democrats not only do not want peoples personal opinions to rule anyone else’s lives, they attempt to stop the people who do want to make their personal opinions to rule anyone else’s lives.

      • Kate8

        Caveman101 – I just want to comment on your most excellent post. Well thought out and presented, I must say.

        Unfortunately, it’s wasted on the likes of Robert Smith. The liberal mind just doesn’t comprehend reason. It’s all about emotional reaction with them…knee-jerk thinking.

        There is only ONE reason governments build up a dependent class. Not because they care, but because they WANT A DEPENDENT CLASS. It is from such people they derive power, because if no one needs them they have no power.

        People who are self-sufficient and self-reliant are not easily enslaved. They cannot take away freedom without selling something first…the promise that people don’t have to worry about being accountable for their own bad choices, because the government is “compassionate” and will always be there to bail them out.

        Take away self-reliance, and you take away self-respect. This leads to devaluing of humanity itself, and by the time you get to this point, it’s pretty much a done deal.

        What they don’t see is that once they have absolute power, the dependent class becomes unsustainable. Guess what happens then… what always happens when someone becomes a drag and a dead weight (so to speak).

        That’s what Camp FEMA is for. Well equipped with ovens and guillotines, I understand. Funny how a year ago the guv denied their existence. Now they’re loading up the busses with the promise of free food and warmth.

        I wonder if we’ll hear about the many who simply disappear. I doubt it. Chaos creates a great cover.

      • DaveH

        TLGeer says — “The problem with your statement is that liberals/progressives do not want complete control of our lives. And they don’t want anyone else to have complete control of our lives”.
        Then why, TL, do they Grow Government ever larger? You do know that Government is Force, don’t you TL? Why do you help yourselves to other peoples’ money as if it were your own? Why do you Force us to buy Healthcare Insurance which I know to be uneconomical? Why do you Force us to pay uneconomical prices for our energy?
        You can make all the Bald Assertions that you want, TL, but the proof is in your actions.

        TLGeer says — “There are people that say that they are libertarians (who wants the least amount of Government interference) that want their personal beliefs to intrude into someone elses lives (abortion, marriage, drugs, etc.) and they see nothing wrong with that”.
        Then they aren’t really Libertarians, TL. People can call themselves whatever they want, but it doesn’t make it true.
        Liberal Progressives, for example, call themselves “compassionate” at the same time as they help themselves to other peoples’ money — People they know nothing about. They don’t know if those people have struggled through poor health (as I have), but still take care of themselves instead of immorally riding on the backs of others. They don’t know if those people have worked long hours to get to their current level of earnings and assets. They don’t know if those people took great personal and financial risks to earn their money. They don’t know squat about the people who they choose to ride like mules, they just know that those people have something they want, so they climb on their backs like a bunch of parasites.

      • DaveH

        Also, TLGeer, I must point out that you did the typically Liberal Progressive thing of taking my comment out of context so as to appear that I said something I didn’t.
        I said — “what we’re in for when we let the Liberal Progressives take complete control of our lives”.
        I didn’t say that the Liberal Progressives have already taken complete control of our lives. But give them time. They will try.

      • http://yahoo Charles Arthur Williams

        All this talk about Fascism ! Check at Dictionary.Com for a definition!
        It say’s” Right Wing Nationalist “! Fundamentally opposed to Democracy AND
        Liberalism !!!

    • Rosegarten

      Thank you, Ron. Words of truth have you spoken.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        I could not understand any of his jiberish.

      • DaveH

        Not words of truth, Rose, words of meddling, words of killing, words of ignorance since you both are obviously unaware of the amount of Imperialism and Crony Capitalism that goes into initiating those involvements in other countries’ business. Our young unknowing soldiers are just cannon fodder for the ambitions of the elite who lie to them, convincing them that the battles are for Freedom as they take away the Freedom of other countries’ citizens.
        Read this and get a little bit of a clue:,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

      • eddie47d

        Fascism and crony capitalism both work hand in hand in taking away rights of individuals or whole nations. Its just slower at accomplishing its task than lets say communism. Capitalist Elites can start wars for their benefit just as fast as a left wing Stalin or a right wing Hitler. The difference is that the Elites are more careful in how many bodies pile up in achieving their goal .

    • czman75

      And you sir, are part of the problem. You support the overthrow of Liberty and support a man that would be king of America. Well, let me tell you bubba, you are the wrong side. You clearly want this country to resemble Cuba, Russia, Venezuela. But you will suffer the loss of freedom just as hard as the rest of us. Americans are born a free people, we live it, breath it. No one is going to take that away including that mental midget in Washington. The ballot box hasn’t worked, the jury box will be filled with like minded people that seek to gain their little bit of treasure from our ruler, so, maybe it is becoming the time for a different kind of box…I think it is time to water the Tree of Liberty…

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Unfortunately, our freedom has been disappearing, gradually over the last 150 years. It is time, to water the Tree of Liberty with the blood of Tyrants, not Patriots.

      • DaveH

        That would only work with an educated involved citizenry. As it stands now, well over half of the population has been severely Propagandized throughout their Public School terms and afterwards by the Main Stream Propaganda Media. Our best hope is to educate those people to the insidious nature of self-interested Leaders and how they keep us dumbed down.
        Until then, any kind of civil conflict would most likely not end well, whether our side won or not:

      • Kinetic1

        Thinly veiled threats of assassination or government overthrow by citizen militias will not gain you much support, except perhaps here on the recruitment site.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        kinetic1, making up lies and threatening people who provide for your goodies in the government trough.I would think that you would want those people to be healthy and prosper that the goodies would keep coming to you.

      • Flashy

        czman….if you recall, the largest intrusion in our freedoms and liberties occurred because of neocon policies. Those who marched in the streets in protest were denigrated, shouted down, and the quote oft mentioned to those opposed to the sanctions and restrictions was “why are you protesting if you have nothing to hide…”

        Y’all got exactly what you supported in the 00′s.

      • box-bb-car

        Obama is simply the top apple of a rotten barrel. Had he been defeated, the rot would still remain. And it is creaping into the republican barrel as well. Time will come to scrapp the barrels and start anew with a fresh crop AND new barrels

        • O.j. Eastwood

          Like a new party lead by; Allen West and Michelle Bachmann. If dem and rep both are against them it is for a reason. They are both are scared that these kind of leaders will do away with their goodies.

      • DaveH

        Kinetic says — “Thinly veiled threats of assassination or government overthrow by citizen militias will not gain you much support, except perhaps here on the recruitment site”.
        You have completely come out of the closet, haven’t you, Kinetic? You have firmly joined the ranks of lying, manipulating Liberal Progressives. Unfortunately for your kind, the readers of PL aren’t so gullible as your DailyKos readers.

      • Flashy

        What did kinetic1 state that you disagree with DaveH ? He pretty much nailed it …

      • Old Henry


        You may well be correct, but let’s hope it can be done peacefully. If not, let’s hope the military folks remember the lesson of Nuremburg.

        How many hundreds of million hollow points has the communist foreign national Kenyan purchased? Three for every man, woman and child in the country?

      • Old Henry

        Speaking of revolution, check out this article. We could have a 30 star flag.

        I wonder if the nit-wit “media” will report this?

      • Old Henry


        Bachmann voted in FAVOR of re-newing the un-Constitutional Partiot Act. She is no more a “constitutional “conservative” than the Kenyan illegally camped in our WH.

      • Kinetic1

        Nadzieja Batki,
        You can disparage my lifestyle and make assumptions all you want, it won’t become fact just because you believe it to be. As I have noted before, my household pays plenty of taxes, provides for it’s own health insurance and gives a proper tithe to our church. The Obama administration does not provide me with any handouts. My belief in our government’s responsibility stems from the U.S. Constitution’s phrase: “to … promote the general welfare”. This phrase is found in both the preamble and in article 1, section 8.

        I realize that the right, often quoting Biblical scripture as proof does not feel that health care, housing and food are intended to be concerns under the Constitution, but I would disagree. So save your petty accusations as to my motives and concern yourself with your own.

      • Kinetic1

        “I think it is time to water the Tree of Liberty…” is a clear reference to Jefferson’s “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots.” To suggest that the writer’s intention was anything other than a possible call to violence is to ignore the obvious. As to my referring to PLD as a “recruitment site”, look around!

        Capitalist at Birth immediately followed with
        “Unfortunately, our freedom has been disappearing, gradually over the last 150 years. It is time, to water the Tree of Liberty with the blood of Tyrants, not Patriots.”

        Old Henry responded’
        “You may well be correct, but let’s hope it can be done peacefully. If not, let’s hope the military folks remember the lesson of Nuremburg.”

        Calls to action and threats against the lives of those you do not agree with show up on this site all the time. It is you, not I Dave who have resorted to lying and manipulating.

      • alpha-lemming

        I like the way you think !!! 10% is good enough for Jesus…. should be MORE than enough for the Government (?? your religion??) !!! Think they’ll buy that argument in April??

      • DaveH

        You’re a damned liar. The “Tree of Liberty” comment was issued by Crony Capitalist who is certainly not representative of Personal Liberty, any more than you are.
        You’re nothing but a slanderer, and I think it is time for Bob Livingston to remove you from the board for so blatantly casting aspersions on this web site for the words of a handful of commenters.

      • Flashy

        Bear in mind Kinetic…DaveH will tell you he doesn’t disparage anyone…

      • DaveH

        Another lying Liberal Progressive speaks.
        Show us where I said any such thing, Flashman.

      • DaveH

        And although I’ve said many times that violence isn’t the answer, I can sure understand why the victims of Liberal Progressive Theft would be just a little angry. The Liberals can describe to you all day long how the Rich are taking advantage of them (so they say), but then they turn around and help themselves to other peoples’ money, having no knowledge whatever of who their victims are or what they did to earn their money, and apparently have no pangs of conscience just because they Vote for somebody else to do their dirty work.
        I’m not talking about the Liberal Progressive Followers who are legitimately ignorant. I’m talking about the Liberal Progressives who know damn well what they’re doing and do it anyway because they just have no morality and want to help themselves to the money that other people made legitimate sacrifice to obtain voluntarily from their bosses or from their customers. I’m talking about people like Flashman and Kinetic.

      • tlgeer

        “Like a new party lead by; Allen West and Michelle Bachmann. If dem and rep both are against them it is for a reason. They are both are scared that these kind of leaders will do away with their goodies.”

        LOLOLOLOLOL What makes you think that we are afraid of …Bachmann? LOLOLOLOLOL Bachmann has no idea of US history, or of how the House works. And the thing is that SHE is part of the House. She makes irresponsible, and incorrect, statements and doesn’t have the brains that G-d gave a goose to even understand that. I guess that because so many people believe anything she says she is rather frightening. Or her supporters are.

        • O.j. Eastwood

          To tlgeer: You mean statements like ” i am a muslim oh i mean i am a christian”.

          • tlgeer

            “To tlgeer: You mean statements like ” i am a muslim oh i mean i am a christian”.

            Obama never said that. And he and Stephanopolis were talking about what other people were saying ABOUT him, talking about his Muslim religion. Try watching the whole interview and not just a sound bite.

    • antfreire

      That’s the problem Ron, there is the possibility that it might not be just four years more. It could very well be 40 or fifty. It only needs to keep giving freebies to the people and legalize the ilegal inmigrants and there you have a democratic party that will be exactly like the PRI was in Mexico, the dictatorship of a Party. And people like you will be happy and chanting slogans because your party is in power.

      • eddie47d

        Then again you are promoting the Roosevelt polices of political expediency. Where the Japanese were interned but the German and Italians were ignored because of their vote. Some German Americans rabidly supported Hitler and held rallies where thousands attended here in the USA. The Japanese did no such thing but were arrested. Today we have those who want Hispanics arrested and driven out of this country.The Democrats were wrong in what they did to please other citizens and the Republicans are just as wrong today in how they are demonizing immigrants for political purposes.

      • MNIce

        eddie47d, few if any of us have problems with Mexicans coming into the United States legally and working here according to our laws. It’s the scofflaws who sneak in without permission who are the issue.

        I suppose you are a charitable man; if you see a homeless man, you would invite him into your house and feed him (after all, you are a compassionate liberal, right?). That is all well and good. But suppose a total stranger walked into your house without so much as a “By your leave,” much less an invitation, went into your kitchen and ate your food, picked a spot in your dwelling to sleep, then went to the doctor and sent you the bill? Would you not be outraged at the imposition and theft? That’s exactly what illegal immigrants do when they come in and get welfare benefits.

      • eddie47d

        As long as they work for the food or benefits they receive then immigrants don’t bother me one bit. Don’t you gain benefits from your job?

      • Old Henry


        Illegals are nothing more than criminal trespassing burglars who have broken inot our house (country). They should be hunted down, arrested and booted out.

        If you came home and found a burglar in your house would you fix him a meal, give him money, give him your car….?

        I am guessing you would call the police and have him / her arrested.

      • Robert Smith

        MNI says: “But suppose a total stranger walked into your house without so much as a “By your leave,” much less an invitation, went into your kitchen and ate your food, picked a spot in your dwelling to sleep, then went to the doctor and sent you the bill? Would you not be outraged at the imposition and theft? That’s exactly what illegal immigrants do when they come in and get welfare benefits.”

        Hmmmmm, “total stranger…” Why not call it a fetus and put it not in the kitchen but within the very body of a woman. Shouldn’t she be allowed to toss that stranger out? After all, don’t you call it a “person?” Why is that “person” entitled to any more than a total stranger?


      • Texas Ride

        Eddie, has got it all wrong. He thinks immigrants are flooding across our borders!

        These are not “immmigrants.” They are illgal aliens and criminals! They are breaking our laws. Any other nation would be protecting its borders, its culture and its demographics! But, the illegal in the oval office is advertising on mexican radio stations for illegal mexicans to come to this country and get their “goodies!”

        Omaumau knows it is much easier to “import socialists” than it is to indoctrinate them. He wants to import as many as it takes to make this a social country!

      • eddie47d

        Pull your head out Texas Ride and head into the sunset! Its Conservative businessmen who demanded the labor from immigrants/illegals.Its Conservative ranchers and farmers who hired the illegals to pick the crops and run the herds. Its Conservative home builders in the 80′s and 2000′s who hired thousands of illegals to pour concrete to frame houses to lay brick to landscape those houses. Its Conservative roofing companies who hired illegals by the truck load to do the labor.I’m not saying its right or wrong but they did it to make their product less expensive and make bundles of money for themselves. Whether you like it or not that is what free enterprise does and more often than not the job goes to the business that charges the least price. Get over your Obama baloney and face the facts about who is really hiring immigrants and firing American workers.

    • Patriot1776

      So ron, “So leading from behind without loss of life is worse than leading from the front and costing lives.” There has been no loss of life under obama? There have been no casualties in Afgahnistan?

      By definition you cannot lead from behind. A leader is out front, showing the way, providing strength and direction. A leader is not on the golf course or campaign bus or Letterman while Americans are murdered, while young patriots willingly sacrifice their lives to provide liberals the right to give away the freedoms and liberties that they and our forefathers fought and died for.

      The Nobel Peace Prize president has continued to allow our troops to remain in Afgahnistan, giving the enemy hope in the knowledge that he doesn’t have the strength to maintain the effort and broadcasting the date that the American forces will leave and the schedule for removing them. Nothing like emboldening the enemy. That’s our leader.

      • Thinking About

        He could have been reading to school kids while over three thousand was dying, guess the numbers would have sounded better to you.

      • eddie47d

        Not sure if Patriot1776 is mad because Obama still has troops in Afghanistan or because he is going to bring them home. Are you taking both sides to see which one is better.

      • MNIce

        Thinking About what? Are you referring to the activities President Bush had scheduled for the morning of September 11, 2001? I suppose you think it was wrong for FDR to go to church (or whatever he had planned) on December 7, 1941? Do you suppose we pick presidents because they have paranormal foresight? If so, we would not find anyone qualified for the job.

        Some have questioned why President Bush continued reading to the children after he was informed of the first attack. A few minutes of thought would show that it was a good decision. 1. At that time, it was not clear that it was an attack and not simply an unlikely accident. 2. Even if the President gave orders to leave immediately, it would still have taken at least until the end of the class period to get the arrangements in place. 3. The children deserved some consideration. President Bush did not want to upset them by running out in the middle of what he had promised to do for them if he didn’t have to.

        “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” Matthew 7: 1-5. I think it likely that this sort of nitpicking criticism and impugning of character is included in Jesus’ admonition.

      • Patriot1776

        eddie, I’m not mad that obama still has troops in Afgahnistan, if he will let them fight to win. I am not mad that he plans to bring them home, if he will not let them fight to win. But to tell the enemy that regardless of the outcome we are pulling out at a set date only serves to embolden the enemy. It is the incompetence of the commander in chief that I was speaking of.

      • Robert Smith

        The dream world of NMI: President Bush did not want to upset them by running out in the middle of what he had promised to do for them if he didn’t have to.”

        GWB could simply have said, “I have to pee..” The kids would have giggled and that would have been the end of it.

        GWB sat there clearly because he didn’t know what to do. He wasn’t informed until the SECOND plane hit and he was told that we were under attack.

        Check out:

        I also find it very sad that as Americans were dying and American planes were grounded the Binladen family was allowed to fly away.


      • Texas Ride

        Robert, try to keep up! Bush isn’t President and hasn’t done anything these last four years!

        Lets talk about what omaumau is doing and has done! You radicals can’t talk about that because what omaumau has done is indefensible! Do we have to post a list of his treasonous acts…yet, again! Then you can explain how much omaumau improved our economy, our personal freedom, our security, our status as a world leader, our military strength, and you can tell us how he has brought this country “together.”

      • eddie47d

        I know it is too late to pull your head out Texas Ride and you must enjoy the darkness of your mind but please try. Make a real effort in trying to understand who started the ball rolling and in starting those wars . Try hard to understand who gave the green light with the Patriot Act and the slow erosion of civil liberties. It wasn’t Obama so think really really hard or will your head explode!! I’m not endorsing Obama but slamming your repeated ignorance or can’t you grasp that either..

    • Ed

      My God, you are good at grasping topics and spinning them beyond belief. You speak of hatred. In recent years, even through the obvious incompetence of Jimmy Carter, there has never been such division and “hatred” created in this country regarding the government as was engineered against George Bush. This whole “hatred” thing we are now experiencing in fact sprang from something called variously “The Phoenix Project” or the “Shadow Party”. The purpose of the meeting between George Soros, Hillary Clinton and many very wealthy “Americans” was to design a way of destroying the Republican Party and re-make the Democrat Party into a “Progressive” Party. Among the actions of this cabal was to seriously fund many web sites dedicated to changing the way Americans think, and make them hate everything which was not a product of the “Progressive” “movement”. The sites are too numerous to call out here, but every one of them promotes “Progressiveism” and damns everything else like thinking for one’s self, or anything smelling of Conservativism, patriotism, or exceptionalism. We have a definate problem in this country and it primarily stems from a long term invasion of Communism. Your spin of the facts does not in any way help this great nation. You are undoubtedly a part of the problem.

      • eddie47d

        Ed; “invasion of communism”. That certainly didn’t help your rant since the only thing growing in America is crony capitalism and socialism not communism. Some socialist policies have hurt the nation but the biggest part of our latest economic meltdown came from crony capitalism. Some of you need to stop admiring their reckless behaviors and reign them in before it happens again. What has the party of Republicans turned into because they definitely aren’t Conservative? How about Cronyicans!

      • Kinetic1

        Come on now, ALL the anger comes from Soros gaining influence during the Clinton administration? How about the Capital Cities take over of ABC in 1986? Following Reagan’s successful bid to end the fairness doctrine, CC/ABC began a program of blanketing the airwaves with Right wing commentary and dispensing the talking points of the Republican party. It’s most notable project was Rush Limbaugh, a then little known Sacramento disc jockey. These are the people responsible for Rush’s meteoric rise. With control of over half of the nation’s 11,000 AM stations there had little trouble getting Rush into key American markets. And their control of ABC allowed them to feature this unknown on many nationally broadcast debate programs such as Nightline, Donahue and MacNeil/Lehrer.

        Rush established his own production company to maintain the appearance of independence, but there’s no question about who has been behind him all these years. And who is behind Capital Cities? The company was founded by, among others CIA head William Casey. No surprise then that “The CIA challenged ABC’s right to retain its broadcasting licenses just before Cap Cities bought out the company and during the period it was negotiating for the purchase. This attack had the result of driving down the price of ABC stock on the public market.”

        Unless you are going to try and convince readers that Rush is not divisive, combative and intentionally inflammatory, you can hardly argue that his efforts to prop up the Republican party through attacks on the Clinton administration and his daily airing of Republican talking points have been the major factor in dividing this nation over the last 25+ years.

      • Joann Flanagan

        Don’t be surprised if someone who violates the Ist Amendment violates the 13th Amendment too!
        Joann Flanagan

    • Viet Nam Vet 67-68

      Grand Thieft!!! READ the TRUTH: Highlights of “ROB THE VOTE” include:

      •“The election fraud lobby” by Joseph Farah, on today’s vast network obsessed with winning “by any means necessary”

      •“Rob the vote” by David Kupelian, on Obama’s little-known plans for winning a second term in the White House

      •“Suppressing the military vote – again” by Art Moore, on how America’s soldiers are routinely denied the right the vote

      •“Less than 5 percent of military voters ‘were able to cast an absentee ballot that counted’”

      •“The left’s national vote fraud strategy exposed” by James Simpson, a comprehensive look at the long-term, multi-faceted campaign aimed at taking over America by corrupting her elections

      •“Surprise! Taxpayers still paying for ‘defunct’ criminal vote-fraud group”

      •“Study: U.S. voter rolls include 2 million dead people”

      •“Proof of voter fraud in nation’s capital” by Chuck Norris, on videos that show why Obama depends on mind-boggling laxity at polling places

      •Obama readying ‘thousands of lawyers’ for November election

      •“The Democrats’ election forgery racket” by Michelle Malkin

      •“Getting out the illegal alien vote” by Art Moore, on Arizonans’ battle with the Obama administration to uphold federal immigration law

      •“DOJ tries to stop Florida from purging voter list of non-citizens”

      •“Has Obama turned over vote-counting to foreigners?” – profiling how a Spain-based firm’s purchase of one U.S. company is raising lots of red flags

      •“National campaign solicits foreigners to register to vote” by Michael Carl

      •“Thousands of fraud cases just ‘tip of the iceberg’” by Bob Unruh, in which election monitors warn that current abuse could lead to a “total breakdown in cohesion of American society”

      •“Obama’s new scheme for stuffing ballot boxes” by former congressman Tom Tancredo, on how Eric Holder plans to “fundamentally transform” America’s elections

      •“NAACP asks U.N. to judge American voter-ID laws” – about how communist and Muslim nations are being asked to assess U.S. fairness

      •“Democrats treat minorities like imbeciles” by Phil Elmore, exposing the absolute insanity of opposing photo-ID voting requirement

      •“The absurd myth of ‘GOP voter suppression’” by Hans von Spakovsky, on how widespread propaganda denies the existence of voter fraud, despite massive evidence

      •“Rolling Stone magazine: Voter fraud is a right-wing myth”

      •“Please – photo ID me!” by Star Parker, on why restoring integrity to America’s elections is a matter of freedom instead of slavery

      •“Dead dogs for Obama” by Roger Hedgecock, who points out that it’s not just deceased humans that are being targeted by ‘get-out-the-vote’ groups.
      “Don’t read this issue of Whistleblower if you have high blood pressure,” said WND Managing Editor David Kupelian. “What leftist activists are doing with the aid of the Obama Justice Department is beyond outrageous.”

      He added: “They must be stopped from totally corrupting America’s electoral system. There’s really no more important or consequential battle in our country today.” Viet Nam Vet 67-68


      • Dennis Phelps

        I agree with you about all the problems.
        Trouble is most people say—–

        Glad you made it back brother!

    • Old Henry


      It is not possible for the foreign national Kenyan to be president as he is NOT a Natural Born Citizen as required by the Founding Documents of our Constitutional Repbulic.

      His “father” was a British subject and NEVER a U.S. citizen. In order to be a Natural Born citizen you must be the child of citizen parents.

      Rubio and Jindahl fall into the smae category and neither oe is eligible to be POTUS.

      • JeffH

        OH, unfortunately you won’t get a rational resonse for your correct statement. What you will get is the arguement that “Obama is a citizen and he was born in Hawaii”…which, of course, completely ignores the fact that Obama still is not a “natural born citizen” and therefore does not qualify for the positins of POTUS and CIC.

        I’ve written as much and sent it to my Congressman Devin Nunes, Rubio, Boehner, Feinstein and Boxer as well as McConnel, Pelosi and the White House explaining to them that under the Constitution Article II, Section 1, Clause 5.

        I got two responses and both answers completely ignored my initial question and stated that there is no question about Obama’s citizenship. I just asked that they come clean, read the history behind the writing of Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 and the Supreme Court cases that have set precedence by defining “natural born citizen”.

      • Flashy

        betchya you really told ‘em there JeffH ! where would they be without you telling them what the Constitution means ! Egads ! perish the thought !

      • JeffH

        Falsy, that’s it, that’s all you’ve got to say?

        Thanks for taking the time to respond.

      • Flashy

        JeffH…i was complimenting you that you wrote to the leaders of Congress and the GOp to tell them what the Consittution means ! They would never have known it otherwise !

        Heck…DaveH would have only sent them a Mises link …

        i have to ask though…did you also tell the SCOTUS what it meant since they’re the ones defining it ?

      • JeffH

        Sure Falsy, whatever you say.

      • eddie47d

        When is Jeff H going to “come clean” and even answer the simplest of questions? He demands from others but ignores them himself.

      • DaveH

        It just drives you crazy (short trip), Flashman, that I provide people with a source of knowledge to shine the light on your immoral controlling dealings, doesn’t it?

      • Sam Adams

        Obama father was Franks, an American. Hes not a Kenyan. Franks was a Communist and spent his life teaching Marx.

        • tlgeer

          “Obama father was Franks, an American. Hes not a Kenyan. Franks was a Communist and spent his life teaching Marx.”

          Unless you have proof, valid proof, of this allegation than all you are doing is repeating vile gossip.

          Plus, it doesn’t matter who Obama’s father was. He is still a natural born US Citizen.

    • cmdorsey (@cmdorsey)

      It’s the Marxist Failed Vision. “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery” – Winston Churchill

      • Flashy

        I believe Socialism is the grandest theory ever presented, and I am sure it will someday rule the world. Then we will have attained the Millennium.… Then men will be content to work for the general welfare and share their riches with their neighbors. Andrew Carnegie in New York Times (1 January 1885)

        The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labour…I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. Albert Einstein, “Why Socialism?”, an essay originally published in the first issue of Monthly Review (May 1949)

        In my opinion, nothing has contributed so much to the corruption of the original idea of socialism as the belief that Russia is a socialist country and that every act of its rulers must be excused, if not imitated. And so for the last ten years, I have been convinced that the destruction of the Soviet myth was essential if we wanted a revival of the socialist movement. George Orwell, in Preface to the Ukranian edition of Animal Farm, as published in The Collected Essays, Journalism, and Letters of George Orwell : As I please, 1943-1945 (1968)

        Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it. It seems to me nonsense, in a period like our own, to think that one can avoid writing of such subjects. George Orwell in “Why I Write”, Gangrel (Summer 1946)

      • Karolyn

        Good one Flashy. If only man could somehow be forced to see who he really is, that we are all one and should all work together for the common good. Unfortunately, society has corrupted humanity. Thank goodness there is a growing segment of humanity who are getting in touch with what really counts, which is loving and supporting each other. After all, even under the Bible, we are all brothers. And…”The kingdom of God is within.”

      • Flashy

        Karolyn…I happen to be re-reading David McCulloch’s book The Path Between the Seas which covers the the history of building the Panama Canal. A large portion covers how at the peak of construction over 50,000 were employed in the Canal Zone and the system was built along socialist lines…wages were higher, free medical, inexpensive housing, food was inexpensive, free education, long vacations, days off, etc… and how the manufacturers etc were worried that when the construction ended…the workers would come home and tell the labor pool here what was possible and demand it here at home …

      • DaveH

        If Socialism is the Grandest Theory, then why is it so illogical? Why has it failed throughout history?
        For those with the brainpower to do an in depth study of Socialism vs. Capitalism, start here. That, of course, leaves out Karolyn. Flashman on the other hand probably knows better but he is obviously benefiting at the rest of our expense, so he will continue on his Propaganda binge:

        It really doesn’t take much brainpower to figure out that the Politically Appointed managers in a Socialist Society don’t really have the necessary skills or incentives to head up a Productive Enterprise. We see the results of such efforts in virtually everything Government does from the Post Office to Amtrak, and in the results of Union-dominated companies (take GM for example).

      • DaveH

        Here are the real-life results of naive thinking like Karolyn’s — “we are all one and should all work together for the common good”:

      • DaveH

        Why isn’t Socialism working now? We have 8 times as much Government now as they did in 1900, yet we have a 7.9% unemployment rate which, prior to Obama’s term, has not been exceeded since 1985.
        How much experience do people have to suffer before they wake up and learn?

      • Karolyn

        Dave – I’m not talking about government; I’m talking about human beings, who have been corrupted by society. We are all born knowing right from wrong and how to live as pure beings. Unfortunately, we are at the mercy of society. As adults, we have a choice, though. Too bad so many choose ignorance.

      • DaveH

        So you want to work together for the common “good”, Karolyn. Yet, you would force your way on those commoners who don’t want you riding on their backs, right? How can you call it good, when you have to force them to deal with you? I’m sure the 19th century slaveowners could come up with similar rationalizations.
        The people who talk like you are almost always the Non-Producers. The Producers don’t need anybody to look out for their “common good”. Thus the real-life results of Socialism. The Producers soon learn that their Productivity goes unrewarded, so they slack off like the Non-Producers who want to ride on their shoulders, and in the end everybody suffers under poverty except the Leaders and their pals. Like in Cuba, or North Korea.

      • DaveH

        I know you mean well, but this isn’t LaLa Land. Socialism is seriously evil. It is sociopaths like Flashman taking advantage of those good people you talk about. Please don’t confuse your dreams of what the world could be with the real world. In the Real World that ugliness that you’d like to eliminate blossoms fully in Socialism. Take this for example:

    • http://asabove john

      How many deferrements did slick willy clinton recieve during the Vietnam War ?? We could go on and on and point fingers just the way the jackasses in washington want. I am an independent and all I have to say is the elect has been on welfare all his life and when the bill comes due for another choom gang party. He will run out and leave you (all of us) holding the bag (Again)

      • Flashy

        “How many deferrements did slick willy clinton recieve during the Vietnam War ?? ”

        Less than Dick Cheney and he didn’t go AWOL during time of war as Bush II did …

      • Nobody’s Fool

        Flashy, your hatred is showing again. i would have thought it would have eaten you alive by now. Tsk, tsk, sadly, since it hasn’t eaten you yet, we are doomed to listen to your communist railings.

      • eddie47d

        Better than your constant denials Everybody’s Fool!

    • Ronald Christopher

      Good diatribe but not true. Let’s talk war. Democrat got us involved in WWI. Democrat got us involved in WWII. Democrat got us into Korea. Democrat got us into Vietnam. Remember Clinton? He got us involved in Somalia, Rangers killed and then he bailed out. So now we have Iraq and Afghan…..involvement approved by a democrat Congress. Let us talk Cheney. While true what you say, Joe Biden also has several deferments. Kerry went AWOL. Bill Clinton dodged, boy did he dodge the draft, then lied. Let us talk Obama. He could have served, but he was far too busy smoking the dope. His birth. Anybody who believes he was born in the USA is insane. Why does he have all his records sealed. Why does he have all his records sealed? I ask that twice because you cannot answer it. Yeah, you will say, because it is none of my business. That is the democrat way.
      Long live the insane.

      • Nobody’s Fool

        Ronald Christopher, thank you for a voice of reason among the posters today. Ron, Karolyn, flashy, et al., are nothing but communist shills screaming their fool heads off so as to drown out the sane people. Would that they would join their idol oBlamer and all follow him like the Pied Piper right out of town and over the cliff. It’s the only way we’ll ever be rid of all the rats!!!

      • eddie47d

        Everybody’s Fool is biting into Ronald’s lies. Must be for his sick and distorted pleasures. Kerry never went AWOL and the draft long passed Obama up. He was also born in Hawaii so that is three strikes against both of you. Oh yes the Pied Pipers of lying are trying to convince us otherwise. Watch 2016 for it blows your nonsense.

      • Thinking About

        RC, perhaps you don’t know much about history of Congress but surely you should be old enough to know the Congress was controlled by Republicans for the first six (6) years of the Bush administration and that would make the Iraq and Afghan wars voted on by a republican controlled Congress. Check simple history and then tell me the story again.

    • Combat seabee

      October 23rd. 1983, ring a bell? Maybe not for you, but it does me. I was one of those under that barracks that survived. Not so much my “Brothers in Arms!” 220 Marines, 18 Sailors, 3 soldiers, and like myself, 60 injured Americans. Reagan did not pull out, in a military scenario, it’s called a “Tactical Retreat,” probably something you know nothing of!
      I have served honorably since Viet-Nam, 71-73, Beirut, Grenada, Beirut again, Persian Gulf, anti -terrorism in Italy, and anti drug in Nicuraugua/Columbia, 1982-88, 1990-95, 2000-05. I did my time and yes, I have earned the right to criticize an ineffectual, weak ass, bowing, I have no clue president, that only wants to give my hard earned money to some POS that won’t get off of their dead ass and work!’ There within lies the problem in America, and it starts with the “Gimme’s!”

    • Nobody’s Fool

      Ron and Rosegarten, Jill is partly right. You WILL eat those words, but sadly, you are too dumb to know what you are eating. You are so open minded that your brains have fallen out. oBlamer is going to continue his agenda to bring America to its knees, to a 3rd world position along with Ethiopia etc., where children die from starvation every day at about the rate that we murder babies in this country. Your eyes will forever remain behind blinders, though, and you will go to your internment facility still praising his royal hienieness, the emperor with no clothes.

    • John Lilleburnes Ghost

      I see DaveH is showing his either complete stupidity (again) or his even more unpleasant cynical disregard to the truth. Hitler was not a socialist DaveH he was a right wing politician the name of the party was a cynical ploy to confuse German workers .I assume you know this and like to lie. The Democratic republic of Korea isnt democrataic either. Actions not labels DaveH are a judge of a mans values (or lack of)

      Hitler and the right wing criminals did know their enemies however and they slaughtered them.
      Jews, Communists, Socialists, Homosexuals, Gypsies and the disabled those were the people they butchered not “libertarians” big business men and the “Good white volk”. If you had called Hitler a left wing socialist in Nazi germany you would have ended up in Dachau

      Now who’s predjuidices does this hate agenda still appeal to? A small minority of the “ultra” conservative Americans thats who. Thats people like you and Bob L and the rest other bullying yellow freeper losers who post on here.

    • texastwin827

      Ron if you believe the politicians “hatethat there is no draft” you are so misinformed! During Vietnam their and the wealthy’s kids were referred to asuthe “privileged sons” because they could get their kids college deferments or pull strings to get them into a National Guard.

      As the war waged on, the public began taking notice and began demanding a different method of who would or would not be drafted…this the “Lottery System”, which meant all men of draft age had to serve, if their birth dates were selected.

      Enter the “All Volunteer” Military….meaning they just found another avenue to make sure THEIR kids will never be called to serve in their wars.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Babby660

      I certainly agree with you, ron r. It’s time for right wingers to grow up. Obama has managed to make strides without you & most of them have been in the right direction. Without his leadership, we might be in a full-blown depression now.

  • Diana

    Dear Ron, that’s easy to say, but the damage Obama will do in four years, not to mention the damage he and Clinton have done to race realtions over the past four years, will be irreversible. I don’t believe the problem is getting out the vote, but rather the lack of transparency in the voting process. Too many irregularities in this election process. I, for one, watched my vote disappear overnight during this election. I personally watched it happen on the voter scrolls from one day to the next. The only winner in this election was CORRUPTION. Obama is a threat to this country, stay tuned.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      I question whether it is even worth voting any more. I think the election process is rigged anyway. I am careful to longer speak with those who support Obama, out of the fear that they may turn my name in. I wrote last week about everyone who believes in freedom wearing an American Flag Pin upside down as a sign of distress. I hope some of you will follow suit and spread the word.

      • DaveH

        You’re worried they’ll turn your name in?
        I thought just last week that you were telling me how tough you were?

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Dave H. I may have been speaking metaphorically. Are you not worried that we are heading towards the same events that occurred in Nazi Germany in the 1930″s? I don’t care how tough you are, you must understand your enemies.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        You are not very subtle with you veiled innuendo that if we talk against O that we will be turned in.
        Then by your post you have admitted that what Bob L. writes is true and correct.

      • DaveH
      • Karolyn

        OMG Capitalist! What a way to exist! (not “live”)

      • DaveH

        From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. Right, Karolyn?

    • Ried

      Diana, you left the Bushes and Reagan off your list of great presidents. They have done as mush for the crony capitalists as Clinton and Obama.

    • teddy maher

      Diana …. Let us not forget the most brazen theft of liberty was done by the Bush administration… He got us into two wars which are still costing us,He gave us the patriot act which this administration is now using to arrest,spy on and kill american citizens with impunity…. Let us not forget that Paul Ryan voted for the Tarp bill,Homeland security and the formation of the TSA just to name a few…. Our once free nation is plagued with wholesale ignorance and wrong education and Clinton as well as Obama are the fruits of a public whose arrogance and ego gave us the results of this last election….Perhaps a collapse would be the best thing,although it will be prove to be chaotic and violent, in the final analysis what would survive would be the productive element of our society to rebuild…

      • Ronald Christopher

        Teddy baby, get real. Study your history and stop spreading the lies. Iraq and Afghan was gotten into by a democrat Congress. Bush asked them and they approved. Now, on the other hand, obama got us into Libya and he didn’t ask Congress.

      • Flashy

        Can you provide any cite to support that?

        Congress did not order Bush into Iraq or Afghanistan. It was his call…Congress simply said “it’s your call Georgie”

      • JeffH

        Falsy, do you ever wonder why almost no one believes anything you say. Your attempts to spin and twist what others say is unmatched. There’s a valid reason why you don’t have any credibility Falsy.

        Ronald Christopher says, “Iraq and Afghan was gotten into by a democrat Congress. Bush asked them and they approved.”

        Falsy responds with, “Congress did not order Bush into Iraq or Afghanistan. It was his call…Congress simply said “it’s your call Georgie”

        Notice everyone that nowhere did Christopher imply that Congress “ordered” Bush into Iraq. Also notice that Christopher said Bush asked Congress and Congress approved.

        Now to correct a misnomer by Christopher, 82 congressional Dems and 29 Senate Dems voted in favor of the Iraq Resolution authorizing military action agains Iraq.

        The resolution authorized President Bush to use the Armed Forces of the United States “as he determines to be necessary and appropriate” in order to “defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.”

        This is just another reason why the ignorant progressive manipulator Falsy has no credibility.

        • tlgeer

          ” Also notice that Christopher said Bush asked Congress and Congress approved.”

          Don’t forget that this was based on false information given to them by the White House.

      • JeffH

        Note…the Republicans held the House majority while the Dems held the Senate majority at that time.

      • JeffH

        tlgeer, so? What on earth does that have to do with anything posted in this little threat? Absolutely nothing, nada!

        Just to humor you though…do you think the Pres and the WH are the only ones privy to that kind of information and are the only ones that give the House & Senate that kind of information to make decisions? DUH!

        A lot of the anti-war/anti-Bush crowd is saying that the Bush administration lied about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction. Well, if they’re going to claim that the Bush administration lied, then there sure are a lot of other people, including quite a few prominent Democrats, who have told the same “lies” since the inspectors pulled out of Iraq in 1998. Here are just a few examples that prove that the Bush administration didn’t lie about weapons of mass destruction…

        Here are some very strong comments from Democrats that supported the war against Iraq.

  • roger gunderson

    Yes, our rights are eroding, but who or what group is planning a
    take over? It don’t seem quit like a hitler takeover. The elites are running this country, but in the background.The elections are our only
    safeguard,so far.

    • teddy maher

      Good Question Roger …. IMHO no one is planning a take over of anything …. Our leadership are comfortable with the status quo and with their limited interlect they think things will just evolve and some day it will get better,all this is taking place while our leadership pursues their own personal gain

    • JeffH

      roger says “Yes, our rights are eroding, but who or what group is planning a take over? It don’t seem quit[e] like a hitler takeover.”

      Have you ever wondered how Adolph Hitler was able to persuade so many people to follow him; what methods, if any, did he use?

      We look at those grainy films of Hitler delivering his bombastic speeches and our automatic reaction is that we would have never supported the man and his political party. But it’s quite another thing to place one’s self in the shoes of an ordinary German citizen and ask, “What would I have done?”

      Hitler’s takeover of Germany very much parallels the incremental takeover of our Republic.

      By controlling the minds of the German youth, persuading the people of the country to support his cause through the use of propaganda, as well as his use of anti-Semitism resulted in Hitler’s control of the German society.

      As Hitler states in Mein Kampf, “The art of propaganda lies in understanding the emotional ideas of the great masses and finding, through a psychologically correct form, the way to the attention and thence to the heart of the broad masses” (Welch 8). Hitler was able to perfect this method, and gain the support of the masses. Once he achieved this, there was no stopping him.

      It is no surprise that there is a remarkable similarity between the economic policies that Hitler implemented and those that Franklin Roosevelt enacted. Keep in mind, first of all, that the German National Socialists were strong believers in Social Security, which Roosevelt introduced to the United States as part of his New Deal. Keep in mind also that the Nazis were strong believers in such other socialist schemes as public (i.e., government) schooling and national health care. In fact, very few Americans realize that Social Security, public schooling, Medicare, and Medicaid have their ideological roots in German socialism.

      Hitler and the Nazis used the Jews as a scapegoat for all the problems that Germany was undergoing during the years that followed the First World War.

      If you take a step back, look at the big picture and think long and hard, you can easily see how we’ve all been manipulated by those we’ve chosen to lead us…there is no shortage of scapegoats, something or someone to blame. Look back through our history and you will see that this has been the norm, not something that can be specifically blamed on Bush or Obama…they’ve all been complicit in this immoral act against freedom, liberty and “we the people”.

  • William Parsons

    Live by the sword die by the sword . The truth should be our saber . You create evil when you encroach on Liberty . They created Hitler by by the punishments they put upon Germany after WW1 . Look how they treated Japan after WW2 . Different approach different outcome . They vilified Patton , at the end of WW2 , for being a war monger . He didn’t want war with Russia , he wanted freedom for the other half of Europe . Which was promised to them and look what we have been fighting since . Nobody takes responsiblity for their own actions , it’s easier to blame others . The Boogerman will go away if you stop creating him . I thought this was a nation that believes in Christ not Mars , the god of war

  • pete buatti

    The last life-boat of liberty is taking on water and listing badly. Alas there is noone to whom we can send an SOS. So man the oars and the bailing buckets and get to work.
    Work to see true conservatives are nominated to run for office. Petition the republicans in congress not to back down and stand for the principles for wich they were elected. LASTLY BUY GOLD, SILVER GUNS AMMO AND NON-PERISHABLE FOOD IN THE ORDER AND AMOUNT YOU SEE FIT.

  • Capitalist at Birth

    Christianity has been used by the elite for centuries to control the masses and keep them in line. Haven’t you studied History at least a little bit. Turn the other cheek was never espoused by Jesus Christ. It was added to the teachings of the Catholic Church to keep people in line.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      The above comment was meant for William Peterson.

    • Jonathan

      The Catholics changed a lot of things that Jesus said. They also changed a lot of things that the apostles said and wrote as well. The biggest one was the fact that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born and that Jesus had no earthly father. Why do you think so many people were burnt at the steak? Just for arguing that that the world wasn’t the center of the universe, NO WAY!!! Those people who were murdered new the truth about Jesus true identity and many other things. They wanted to get These truths out so people would know but were murdered in the process. Governments have always hated the truth and people who stand up and speak it. The Roman Catholic church was and is a government controlling the people (1.3 billion strong,) just like the USA, and it’s the same today as it was back than.

  • donald de

    It was very interesting to read your artical. I was happy to read history, that I did not know, providing it is all true. When I got to the end of the piece I laughed out loud. The whole artical became meaningless.

    The one great thing about the English lanuage with its 26 letters, is that any one can arrange those letters to fit or mask their thoughts for their own means.

    You did a very good job in the arrangement of those 26 letters to take another opportunity to put another knife in the back of President Obama.

    The real problem in America is that people do not work together for the benefit of all Americans. There are too many different groups that beleive they have the right way as to what America should be.

    Can I drive you to the airport?

    • DaveH

      Donald says — “When I got to the end of the piece I laughed out loud”.
      Yeah, it’s always easier for the guy with his hand in your pocket to have a better sense of humor than for the owner of the pocket.
      You said, Donald, “providing it is all true”. Bob gave you his referential sources, Donald. Feel free to read them and investigate further.

      • donald de

        DavidH, I don’t beleive all history is 100% accurate. History is written from the view of the writer. I beleive, the bones of what is written is true, however as a message is passed from one person to another, the true content of the message is changed. Take one subject and see how many books and articles have be written about that subject.

        Truth, as some say, is in the eye of the beholder or there is my truth and there is your truth.
        It is not the accuracy but how one choose to use it.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        donald de, you talk in vague cliches so you supposedly cannot be held accountable for your words.

        • donald de

          You don’t know me. I am accountable for my words. Other wise I would not say them. Like every one else, its an opinion. You don’t have to accept it.

      • DaveH

        I am well aware, Donald, that history isn’t 100% accurate. All you can do is read as much as possible, and relate it to your own experience and education in order to filter what seems truthful or plausible to you.
        For instance, Abe Lincoln, a former Railroad Lawyer, a long-time member of the American Colonization Society (which advocated sending the blacks out of our country), as an Honest Man, as an Emancipator? I mean, come on, people have got to suspend all rationality to swallow that one.

      • Karolyn

        Absolutely, Donald. Perception is everything.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear donald de,

      You write: “You did a very good job in the arrangement of those 26 letters to take another opportunity to put another knife in the back of President Obama.” The knife wasn’t solely directed into the back of Obama. You need to do two things: Reread the article, and remove yourself from the false right/left paradigm.

      Best wishes,

    • Capitalist at Birth

      When everybody with wealth and the ability to produce products and services for which there is a demand leaves, how well do you think North America will do? When all the producers are gone from whom will the takers take? Unless you are one of the Ruling Elite, you will be a serf. That is exactly what they have in mind, donald.

  • DaveH

    Great article, Bob. Thanks for all your hard work spent in an effort to awaken the people.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear DaveH,

      Thank you.

      Best wishes,

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Unfortunately, except for those educated enough to understand what is happening, this article and all that will be written will fall on deaf ears. I am completely discouraged and afraid that it may be too late.

      • DaveH

        To sit apathetically by, while watching people succumb to the Propaganda, is guaranteed to result in the loss of our Freedom.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        I am anything but apathetic, Dave H. I have been and continue to stockpile weapons, ammunition, food, water, camping equipment, anything that WE will need for survival. I have been researching medical (natural medicine), survival information, and passing it on to my friends and family. I am prepared to leave this land if and when it becomes necessary, in other words preparing for the worst.

  • Mr Shorty

    ;When you are riding as a passenger in a car that is speeding down a dead end road with a cliff behind it, you have few options. The one thing for sure is that if you do nothing, you will go over the cliff. You can yell, scream and curse the day you got in the car, but they will do nothing to stop the forward progress. You can also just turn to your friends in the backseat and tell them “I told you that this guy was a lousy driver” and just shake your head. Or, you can reach over and turn off the ignition and hope the car will stop before the cliff. There’s no guarantees that if it does stop, you will be able to take control of the car and turn it around, but that seems a much better alternative than to do nothing.

    I wholeheartedly agree that our current government (R and D) are totally out of control and need to be changed. However, your historical references to how we all lost our freedom that go back over 150 years is lost on the reality of the times. In most cases, it was survival of the fittest at the time and the strong prevaild (right or wrong). If you want to talk aboujt real human freedom and justice, we should have stopped on the beaches of Plymouth Rock and set up our Country there. What we did to the native population of this land is anything but recognize the free rights of all individuals.

    • DaveH

      Mr. Shorty says — “What we did to the native population of this land is anything but recognize the free rights of all individuals”.
      I take exception, Shorty, to the “We” part. The Leaders did those things, and very likely the citizens were unaware of the whole of the circumstances. Leaders rarely tell the truth about their actions. So while you’re right that the natives got the short end of the stick, put the blame where it belongs — On the actual Perpetrators.

      • Mr Shorty

        Dave, I don’t know enough about whether the people moved and asked for the government to build a fort to protect them or the other way around. My thinking is that the people moved first, especially in the lands west of the Mississippi. I still contend that “might made right” back then. I know we have changed our overall perception as to the role of the individual in society toward more of a “controlled” politically correct direction. But the question still remains on the table as to how we can reverse the actions and get us back moving the the “right” direction.

      • DaveH

        Might still makes Right. Nothing has changed. But I think this is a very accurate statement by Clifford F. Thies — “To say governments were formed to protect the rights of men would be historically incorrect. Almost all governments were formed by ruthless men exerting their will over others through the use of force”.
        In early history, there were roving bands of thieving marauders who would wreck great havoc on their landed victims and then would move on. Over time equally aggressive non-productive men, who recognized that a more sedentary life would be better for them, offered their protective services to the people (whether they liked it not). That is how Government evolved. It was better for the people (although still a burden) because the Leaders didn’t wreck nearly as much ruin on their lives as the marauders did.
        This man has spent a great deal of time studying the transition of Liberty throughout history:

  • braindeadus

    The american people had a choice to get us out of this mess but they nominated Romney to run against Obama. The republican party is doomed you had a chance to vote for a real republican and a constituionalist in Ron Paul so live with your vote.

    • Mr Shorty

      I too had a different candidate as my preference to run against Obama, but the people didn’t support him as they didn’t support Ron Paul. I liked a lot of things that Ron Paul advocated, and would have voted for him if he was selected. However, the people didn’t support Ron and they supported Mitt. Liberatarians are one of the strongest groups that espouse WE THE PEOPLE but fail to follow through when WE don’t support their choice. You have every right to vote (or not vote) but you must also now live with your choice. If you think that Mitt and the current Republican candidates are not sufficiently different from Obama and the Democrats, that is your right. My right is to disagree with you.

      • DaveH

        Shorty says — “Liberatarians are one of the strongest groups that espouse WE THE PEOPLE but fail to follow through when WE don’t support their choice”.
        That’s because, unlike you apparently Shorty, we don’t Compromise our Principles to win elections from Propagandized ignorant voters.

      • Mr Shorty

        Dave, by not compromising your principles you will now continue to live under a government that is contrary to every one of your principles rather than one that could have been at least simpathetic to them and with some encouragement by the grass roots of this Country even moved to implement them. Now there is little to no chance of that happening. Actually, I and my conservative friends are more discouraged with you and the Liberatarians who failed to join us in overthrowing Obama than in the mindless hordess that drank the kookaid and voted for him. Our Country still abides by the vote of the people and the majority rule. If you have forgotten that in your defense of Principles then your opinion bears even less weight with me. As a footnote, using the word ignorant adds less credence to your position than your obvious “who cares who wins as long as people know that I disagree”. Your protest vote has moved us further from the principles of individual liberty and freedom than we were before the election.

      • DaveH

        For the 40 years of my voting life, Shorty, I have listened to the same illogical statements from those who think voting for the lesser of two evils is the solution. And for those 40 years I have endured ignorant people making my choices for me, whether Democrat or Republican, because the Government just keeps getting Bigger. What else does one expect when voting for Government Growthers, whether lesser or not? So please don’t bore me with comments about how “discouraged” you and your friends are with me.
        As far as your whine about me using the word “ignorant”, it is a description which means lack of knowledge. Everybody is ignorant about certain subjects (most subjects). I’m sorry that I don’t want to take the time to sugarcoat it for those who have low self-esteem and thus are easily insulted.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Here we go again. Crying over spilled milk, are we? Ron Paul can and never will get elected to any national office. End of story.

      • DaveH

        Here we go again, the guy who whines about others insulting him is doing the usual insulting of those who he disagrees with.

      • DaveH

        Are you like completely oblivious, CC?

  • Right Brain Thinker

    Well done, Bob. You have made many good points and woven them together skillfully. One could argue some of them but I would rather focus on the fascism that is of real concern—-the fascism that the plutocracy and the corporations are working so hard to establish in this country and around the world. The fascism that has nothing to do with politics or candidates except as tools to be bought to do the job. And Citizens United has allowed the real “masters” to just buy many more wrenches.

    Look at the ever-increasing income and wealth gap in this country and around the world and look at how the bought-and-paid-for Repugnants resist doing anything rational to correct that problem. Look at how the Democrats have let it happen and not pushed hard enough for “democratic” principles because too many of them have also sold their souls to the “monied interests”.

    Feudalism is perhaps the longest lived political-economic system ever seen on the planet. It worked for the Chinese for thousands of years and in Europe for centuries. Our new brand of corporate feudalism/fascism will perhaps be more benign—-simple schooling for the “workers”, minimal but adequate health care, decent housing and food, even vacations—-but it will be feudalism (and fascism) nonetheless.

    You closed by saying that “almost 130 million Americans voted for fascism”. Nice sound bite, and it reinforces your image as being “off to the side and smarter than most of us”, but do you really believe that there is NO difference between the ends of the spectrum? That each party is EQUAL in their “taste” for “going fascist”?

    • DaveH
      • DaveH

        Here’s an article that might set you straight:

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Yep, The Big Ripoff spoke to truth. Have you read Winner Take All Politics? More truth. And Death of the Liberal Class by Hedges (a “commie” if there ever was one) looks more closely at what he sees as the real failure—-the thing that enabled the
        Repugnants to go wild over the past 30+ years—-the fact that too many of the Democrats went to the dark side.

      • DaveH

        The natural inclination of Leaders is to feather their own nests. We all like to take care of ourselves, but many of us try to maintain some integrity in that pursuit. I wish I could say Most, but that hasn’t been my experience.
        At any rate, as the saying goes “S___ floats to the top”. As a result, the small segment of Society that is composed of Sociopaths, is the segment that strives most for Leadership positions. The only way to stop them is through rigorous education and eternal vigilance. One thing for sure is that they aren’t going to be honest about their real ambitions:

    • Randy W

      You closed by saying that “almost 130 million Americans voted for fascism”. Nice sound bite, and it reinforces your image as being “off to the side and smarter than most of us” but do you really believe that there is NO difference between the ends of the spectrum? That each party is EQUAL in their “taste” for “going fascist”?

      Almost 130 million is a combined total of votes for Obama and Romney. Bob makes a valid point.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        I understood that and agree that it was a valid point for him to make. Perhaps I wasn’t clear but what I was asking was whether Bob thought that the “see-saw’ was perfectly balanced. Whether the votes on the left were as likely to lead to fascism as the votes on the right.

        Bob’s previous libertarian rhetoric would lead one to surmise that he would say what he did in closing. I’m trying to smoke him out a bit and see if he will go the next step over into “sell more subscriptions to my newsletter land” and say that the votes for Romney would be LESS likely to lead to fascism and the votes for Obama would be MORE likely to lead us into fascism (ignoring that it wasn’t exactly 50-50 but looking at the “push us into fascism weight” of the two ends of the spectrum).

        I await his reply but I suspect he is too smart to give me a straight answer so I don’t expect a “best wishes” from him anytime soon (to say nothing of his desire to NOT lose paid subscribers by getting too “truthful”). LOL

        • Bob Livingston

          Dear Right Brain Thinker,

          You write: “I was asking was whether Bob thought that the “see-saw’ was perfectly balanced.” Perfectly balanced? They are two sides of the same coin. Each have their own “pets.” Both support subsidizing business from the treasury. Both support redistribution of wealth. Both support larger government. Both support gun laws in violation of the 2nd amendment. Both support the Fed. Both push us toward socialism. Both voted for Patriot Act. Both voted for NDAA. Both support actions of Homeland Security and TSA. Both voted to give Bush (and by extension Obama) carte blanche to fight the war on terror. Both subvert U.S. foreign policy to Israel and Saudi Arabia. Both support the drug war. Both ignore the Constitution. Both support drone attacks on U.S. citizens. If there is a difference it is only by degrees and sometimes tips one way and sometimes the other, depending on the issue and the current climate.

          You write: “(to say nothing of his desire to NOT lose paid subscribers by getting too “truthful”).” I am not afraid of the truth, and subscriptions to this site are free.

          Best wishes,

      • DaveH

        That would be a tough question for Bob to answer, and from what I’ve read he would rather concern himself with the issues and solutions of Freedom than to digress into a treatment of which major Party is most likely to lead us into Totalitarianism.
        My answer would be that they both would like Absolute Power, but one Party is more impatient about getting us there, than the other is.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Bob and Dave H. I don’t think insulting people who MAY not agree with EVERY thought and opinion you have or espouse is all that wise. It will probably lead to fewer people reading the articles which will lead to lost advertising revenues. Isn’t that what it is really all about. Because I do not swallow the Libertarian Party Platform lock stock and barrel does not make me a Fascist nor does it make me less knowledgeable or thoughtful than either of you.

        • Bob Livingston

          Dear Capitalist at Birth,

          You write: “Bob … I don’t think insulting people who MAY not agree with EVERY thought and opinion you have or espouse is all that wise. It will probably lead to fewer people reading the articles which will lead to lost advertising revenues.” Who have I insulted?

          Best wishes,

      • DaveH

        Crony Capitalist,
        I treat people disrespectfully who treat me disrespectfully, and I treat people respectfully who treat me respectfully. I’m afraid you fall into the former group.
        And I would pit the percentage of my comments that don’t insult people against the percentage of your comments that don’t insult people any day of the week.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Thanks for surprising me some with a reply of any sort. Thanks also for confirming my suspicions that you are too smart to really answer my question. Nice tap dance on my comments. As good as Christopher Walken, you are. Y

        You have made a lot of replies here today and too many of them have been “tap dancing” as well. Maybe you should just back off for a while and instead go count the money you make from all this “free” stuff you DON’T peddle. Then you won’t insult anyone (or their intelligence, if they have much, that is) LOL
        Best Wishes,

        • Bob Livingston

          Dear Right Brain Thinker,

          You write: “Thanks for surprising me some with a reply of any sort.” You are welcome.

          You write: “Thanks also for confirming my suspicions that you are too smart to really answer my question. Nice tap dance on my comments.” Perhaps if you engaged the left side you’d recognize a direct answer.

          You write: ” Maybe you should just back off for a while and instead go count the money you make from all this “free” stuff you DON’T peddle.” Do you have a problem with free enterprise? Remember, it costs you nothing to come here.

          Best wishes,

      • DaveH

        At the risk of sounding like a sycophant (which I most certainly am not), I think Bob’s response to you was spot on.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Bob L,

        You said “Perhaps if you engaged the left side you’d recognize a direct answer” I DO engage the left side for many tasks but right brain thinking is far superior for looking at certain things from many directions. I’ve done that with your replies to me and others and once again have concluded that you were tap dancing then, as you are now, since you still haven’t answered my question or that of others but are instead making an attack on me—-a much more restrained and “literate” attack than some of your admirers, but nonetheless an attack. You are being classically left-brained here and letting me push your buttons, if you’re not aware of that. Read The Republican Brain. A right brain thinker would say to himself “I tried to BS and bluster past RBT’s question and failed. I should cut my losses and move on”.

        You also say “Do you have a problem with free enterprise? Remember, it costs you nothing to come here”. Your point, Bob? I should be grateful for the opportunity to “come here” for nothing?. I am a little grateful, actually, because it exposes me to some folks and thinking that not even a dope-addled script writer for a combined sci-fi horror comedy fantasy documentary could think up. I certainly wouldn’t pay for it.

        And no, I don’t have a problem with “free enterprise”. It is a FACT that it made our country great isn’t it? Dave H would think so, I’m sure. What I DO have a problem with is “free markets” and “free enterprisers” that run amok, as they have done all too much over the past 30+ years under the Repugnants, most egregiously under George W. Bush, who may have been our worst president ever and is responsible for the near collapse of our economy. (Junk Yard Dogs?—red meat there—-come running).

        If you can live with yourself and the moral dilemma you face by making your living off the self-deluded and ignorant, I certainly wouldn’t condemn you for it. At least you’re not taking food out of the mouths of the old, sick and poor—although I COULD wrap my right brain around that thought and come up with evidence that you and most of the greedy rich do exactly that.

        Best wishes,

        A PS to DaveH, who says: “At the risk of sounding like a sycophant (which I most certainly am not), I think Bob’s response to you was spot on”

        LOL at that. It is a FACT that your statement is EXACTLY what one would expect a sycophant to say. And the FACT that you DENY it makes it even more true that you are IN FACT a sycophant. How does it go? “If you have to say you aren’t (something), you must really BE (something), because those who really aren’t (something) DON’T have to say they aren’t”. Clear enough? LMFAO

  • O.j. Eastwood

    2+2=what? 10 milliion less democratic votes and 3 million less republician votes in a election that has the biggest turnout in american history does not add up! What adds up is that 10 million democratic’s were not going to be fooled twiced and voted to oust the wolf in sheep clothing and 3 million less republician votes were needed to gain a win for the incumbent. 2+2 if not 4, is fraud and needs to be investigated. It is not the puppet but the puppet master that needs to be brought to light. Only the truth can give back the freedom our Lord Jesus Christ wants us to have.

    • teddy maher

      GOOD LUCK ….. And just who would you suppose is willing to do that???

      • O.j. Eastwood

        The Tea Party.

        • donald de

          In my opinion the Tea Party is bad for America. Only a few would be happy under their rule.

      • DaveH

        Which Tea Party are you referring to, Donald? They are a diverse group of people with a largely incohesive message of Freedom. But those who actually do understand the concepts of Freedom would prefer NOT to Rule you, so you would be responsible for your OWN happiness.

      • Flashy

        DaveH..the TP member is one who is easily swayed by the TP Trilogy (also adopted by the American Taliban). Hate, fear, ignorance. Usually supporting no compromise with the majority, extreme economic and social stances, proclaiming themselves as patriots and defenders of liberty while advocating economic and social theories which would destroy liberties and are plainly advocating the end of this nation as we know it.

      • O.j. Eastwood

        Donald, between want we have and the Tea Party, I will chose the Tea Party thank you.

      • DaveH

        More manipulation and double-speak from Flashman. Do you think anybody intelligent buys your nonsense, Flashman? The fact that you lie, plagiarize, advocate theft, advocate violence against those who disagree with you, and assume multiple IDs on the board, tells me that you’re not a very credible or moral person.

      • Flashy

        You forgot paid shill for the administration, unpaid shill for the administration, commie, socialist, heathen, and all around good guy (oops..that last one i don’t think you’ve ever used in your comments on my character…sorry ‘about that)…

        but then, you never denigrate…according to you.

        Does Mises have an article about this?

      • alpha-lemming

        T*E*A Party…. an acronym!!! Taxed Enough Already!!! Where do you find stupid social issues in that message?? Unless you’re one of those “small government, personal responsibility, low taxes and Constituional RESTRAINTS” are all code words for racism, bigotry, sexism, hate the poor, anti-immigrant yaddayaddayadda. And you wonder why the country is so polarized?? If that’s what/how you really think, there will never be common ground for compromise because if you’re responsible for nothing….. I’ll be responsible for everything…. and frankly, I can’t afford your dream-gig of a barcalounger test pilot anymore.

      • JeffH

        Dave H says “Which Tea Party are you referring to, Donald?”

        It is comments like this one that gain my repect. Dave H gets it.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “but then, you never denigrate…according to you”.
        Oh? And exactly where did I say that, Flashman, you lying Liberal Progressive?

    • teddy maher

      Iam not so sure the eternal one wants us to have our freedom …. Take a good look at the kind of people we have become…. We murder the innocence and call it choice,We have a drug habit that supports entire economies of countries that hate us,We teach our children that deviate behavior is an alternate lifestyle,We sentence nurturing mothers to poverty because of divorce and we have succeeded in removing God from the public square….If you ask me this nation is under judgement and if we don’t return to values that once prevailed it is going to get a lot worse….(If you humble yourselves and earnestly seek me I will heal your land)

      • DaveH

        I think only one of the behaviors on your list is a valid concern of yours, and even that one is debatable since the mother’s life is at stake.
        The rest of the behaviors, as long as they don’t trespass on your body or property, are none of your business, Ted. To make them your business using the Force of Government, makes you the Aggressor.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Amen Amen Amen

      • teddy maher

        David … It is exactly that type of reasoning that makes people who think as you do …part of the problem not the solution…. If you read my comment you had have noticed it was in response to a fellow responder who was invoking a higher authority …. I simply said I do not think he wants us to be free based on our behavior on a social scale …there is nothing personal in this observation …if you have a problem with it, that is fine I welcome reasonable intelligent discourse not vitriol..

      • teddy maher

        @DavidH …. In response to you closing observation …. may I suggest you ponder the difference between License and Liberty …. The misconception is glaring…. we have confused License with Liberty and for that reason we allowed our government to grant license for certain behavior under the guises of Liberty….Goverment owes us all the following…. Protection for our lives,our Liberty while pursuing happiness …anything else is meddling and ,as you stated aggressive…

      • DaveH

        Who do you think you’re kidding, Teddy?
        It’s all there in Black and White:
        Teddy says — “Take a good look at the kind of people we have become…. We murder the innocence and call it choice,We have a drug habit that supports entire economies of countries that hate us,We teach our children that deviate behavior is an alternate lifestyle….”.

    • Karolyn

      It was not the biggest turnout in American history. There was a bigger turnout in ’08.

      • O.j. Eastwood

        To Karolyn, I think you are missing my point, this was by far the biggest election. “Where’s the beef.” Or in this case where is the votes?

  • Texas Ride

    When does the “limitation” kick-in for blaming Bush/Cheney! Omaumau and the communist party, the Evit Empire, own the last four years! Typical of the radicals never to accept blame for their own criminal acts.

    Conservatives were energized in this election, they didn’t sit at home! Instead of blaming conservatives or the candidate, for a lost election, put the blame where it belongs! Put it on the Evil Empire that has control of our government! You are right about one thing, there is a sunni muslim foreigner in the oval office, celebrating Ramadan and sending $400 Billion Dollars to the muslim brotherhood, along with the best American military weapons. He even makes them “live offerings” of Navy Seals, CIA agents, and our Ambassador. When he is not supporting the brotherhood, he is signing Executive Orders that will bring about the collapse of our country.

    Conservatives were lined up for blocks to vote! Some of these polling places ran out of ballots! When has that happened before. Everyone was shocked when the conservative votes disappeared! It was inevitable! Conservatives knew that was the plan from the beginning! The republican party has refused to address the fact that many of the voting machines were purchased by our enemies! Few if any complaints of fraud have been voiced by our side. What we have heard from the republican leaders is that we must become more like the communists and become more tolerant! Where Is The Outrage from conservative Americans! Where is the outrage from all real Americans.

    Ask yourself if the foreigner acted like he knew he would have another four years. He was surly, arrogant, petulent, sarcastic, and was angry that he was being challenged.
    There was a reason for the change in his attitude and demeanor, his style of campaigning, from what it was in 2008. All of the campaining was an unnecessary waste of time that he resented. “The Fix was In.”

    Our election process is illegitimate and has become a fraud perpetuated on the American people by both parties. When votes mean nothing, when the will of the people mean nothing, and decisions are made by the global elite, we are but slaves in our own country. We no longer chose our presidents, that should be obvious to even the most pathetic.

    p.s. The things that are next on the agenda for this country can’t go “forward” until the guns are confiscated.

    • mark

      Texas Ride, you are letting your paranoia get the better of your arithmetic. The Obama adminstration extended $400 million – not $400 billion – to the new Egytian government dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood. This is part of the $1.5-2 billion in annual aid that every administration has given to Egypt since the Nixon administration and including the adminstrations of George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan. It is bribery money to keep Egypt from going to war with Israel which get $3 billion in U.S. aid per year.

      And don’t forget that Ronald Reagan gave millions of dollars in weaponry to the Ayatollah Khomeni’s terrorist government in Iran (See the 1983-1986 Iran-Contra Scandal). I guess Reagan was a Muslim, too, according to that logic. And Reagan didn’t just give 4 “live offerings” of an ambassador and 3 SEALS/CIA agents to Muslim fanatics, he gave them 242 “live offerings” of U.S. Marines blown to bits by Muslim suicide bombers when he foolishly deployed them to Lebanon in 1983. That’s 242 versus 4. Reagan then put his tail between his legs and ran – evacuating all Marines from Lebanon six months early 1984.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Those weapons were for the Conras fighting against the Communists in Nicaragua. Are you illiterate?

      • eddie47d

        Still lying through your teeth Texas Ride. Even taller Texas tales won’t make you anymore intelligent! You know zilch about politics or facts and muddle everything together into a big stew.

      • Flashy

        CB….if the Sandinistas are communist as alleged and propagandized by the Reagan Administration…why have they won and lost elections? The Contras, many of whom were former supporters of the dictator Somoza, butchered women, children, priests and nuns and committed horrendous atrocities.

        Reagan sent a birthday cake to the Ayatollah, North was indicted, convicted, and got off on a technicality (many legal experts allege the technicality was purposeful), Cap weinberger and Bush i refused to give sworn testimony….and when finally pressured they agreed..after the 1988 elections..then mysteriously, the DOJ dropped the efforts,

      • Texas Ride

        Mark, ONE American Dollar is too much to send to the muslim brotherhood terrorists!

        Millions, Billions, Trillions, it doesn’t matter to this Evil Empire! The amounts of money really doesn’t matter either because there is no more money. What we have is the paper that is printed by a privately-owned bank called the Federal Reserve. And this Federal Reserve is owned by the very global elites that want to establish the One World Order. They own most of our debt but that is never talked about. The debt politicians refer to is the debt we owe China and that debt is small in comoparison!

        You and other radicals don’t want to discuss what is happening to this country today! You just keep regurgitating the “communist version” of the past republican administrations….as if that justifies the criminals act of this regime! It doesn’t! Even if any of your rhetoric was correct, it does not justify the treasonous acts and the destruction of our American Republic.

        Sorry but the sunni muslim foreigner is a fraud and the election was illigitimate. That is the only thing! Do try to keep up.

        When a county in Florida has 175,000 registered voters and something like 270,000 votes are cast, that is the problem! This happened all over the State of Florida and the other States in this country. Conservative votes disappear, while a few Million radical votes are fabricated! The republican party should call this election fraudlent, and demand the irregularities at the polls be explained.

      • Texas Ride


        You just yammer away without expressing one cogent thought.

      • eddie47d

        Still making up stories Texas Ride to see if they fit the situation you want?

    • mark

      No, Capitalist at Birth, in addition to illegal, unconstitution (Congress’ Boland Amendment outlawed it) funding of the Contra War against the Marxist Sandinistas of Nicaragua, Reagan gave tens of millions of high tech weaponry to the Islamist terrorist regime of the Ayatollah Khomeni in Iran. That is why some Democrats called for impeachment hearings against Reagan who vowed to years that the United States should never negotiate or give military aid to terrorists for any reason. This wa a huge monstrous scandal that revealed enormous hypocrisy on Reagan’s part. Not to mention the death of 242 U.S. Marines due to Reagan’s folly in Lebanon.

  • Elton Robb

    Don’t mind me, I voted for Liberty. Gary Johnson was a clear choice.

    • DaveH

      Good choice, Elton.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      As I told my neighbors, who wrote in Ron Paul in 2008 (Their votes did not count) a vote for a third party candidate, if the winner is not who you would choose otherwise, is a vote for the eventual winner. It is a stupid idea to throw your vote away on principals.

      • DaveH

        There he goes again. The guy, who whines about others insulting him, insults somebody.
        You’re a real prize, CC.

      • TML

        Capitalist at Birth says “…a vote for a third party candidate, if the winner is not who you would choose otherwise, is a vote for the eventual winner.”

        Is there really any question how retarded this kind of circular logic is anymore? By that logic, your vote for Romney was a vote for Obama… the eventual winner. Geez… I’m sure your neighbors think your as mentally deficient as I do.

        Capitalist at Birth says “It is a stupid idea to throw your vote away on principals.”

        Of course… we wouldn’t want American’s to have those, now would we?
        Voting for someone with ideas and principles you don’t believe in… THAT is stupid.

      • LC

        What makes sense to me is voting principals and letting that true number be shown in the polls. Hoping that more might be encouraged to do the same in the future. Eventually growing into the victory of a TRUE leader that we so desperately need to restore our country,constitution and American rights. Deciding to vote the lesser of two evils just prolongs the time needed to overcome the progressive socialism being articulated by the popular two party system.

  • TML

    Bob says, “But Federalists made a persuasive argument that the Constitution would be followed by a Bill of Rights…”

    I’m pretty sure it was the Anti-Federalists who argued persuasively for a Bill of Rights… particularly Jefferson. I remember the exchanges between Jefferson and Madison in which Madison finally agreed despite skepticism that a Bill of Rights would serve as a vehicle to rally people against future tyranny in government, and that it would help install the judiciary as guardians of individual rights against the other branches of government. Even still the only good argument against having a Bill of Rights was that it was feared some would interpret this list as the only rights… hence Rhode Island taking so long to ratify demanding the addition of the 10th Amendment.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear TML,

      You write: “I’m pretty sure it was the Anti-Federalists who argued persuasively for a Bill of Rights… ” Against the Constitution as proposed and for a Bill of Rights, yes. Your point?

      Best wishes,

      • TML

        That was pretty much it really; thought it was an error in your article, but I seem to have needed more coffee, lol.

      • DaveH

        I knew what Bob meant, TML. But I can see where you could read it the way you did.

        • Bob Livingston

          Dear DaveH and TML,

          Perhaps my writing wasn’t as clear as I thought. I will re-evaluate my choice of words. Thanks.

          Best wishes,

      • TML

        No worries, I thought it was well written. Love the footnote references, btw.

  • Ed Gabris

    It is so easy to complain and rant about what is perceived to be happening. Far more difficult is to proposes changes that will move us in a different direction. Even still more difficult is to build a consensus on your changes. When the actual changes and policies being proposed are displayed in sufficient detail, Americans will be in a position to actually make judgment. Until than, your words are merely words.

  • Thinking About

    We do not live in the 18th, 19th, or 20th century, we are in the 21th century. We have many inventions which allow travel in hours instead of years, we have to adjust our lives to the situation we are in today. If you are so interested in being in the 18th century why are you using the internet, it was not here. The USA elects by majority of the vote or in the case of presidential election by electorial college set up by our forefathers. This is our way of life, if your candidate is not elected so be it, if your candidate was elected, so be it. It is still cognitive dissonance, if you say something long enough, often enough you might even find someone who agrees with you or with some you might be able to change their thoughts. First you should have facts on your side if you plan on convincing anyone what you think is the right thoughts, we can find the truth.

    • reelman1946

      Adjustment to the steady rot of socialism ? You are one sick human is you think socialism fits America…

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Reelman proves my point. You touched a nerve or two—-hit on some of his deeply held beliefs and he swings into ranting about THE STEADY ROT OF SOCIALISM and calls you SICK. Motivated reasoning in action. He or those like him calling themselves names like “Real American” and “Patriot” will also jump on the bandwagon and reinforce each other’s denial of the truth you tried to bring into the discussion. They will all walk away saying to themselves “we told them commies” and feel better about themselves—the group held together, fought for the “truth”—sad and discouraging.

      • Thinking About

        You must be replying to the wrong person, I did not present socialism.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Some evidence of right brain thinking there. Somewhat rare on this site and good to see. I am glad to see the mention of cognitive dissonance. Have you read the new book by Chris Mooney titled The Republican Brain? And that is NOT an oxymoran (as tea partiers would spell it if they knew enough to use use the word).

      Republicans DO have brains, and sometimes very intelligent ones—-many are just wired in a way that makes it difficult to deal with FACTS, especially those that don’t agree with their deeply held BELIEFS. Mooney explains it all well in his clear and well supported book. He also points out that cognitive dissonance is being superceded by “motivated reasoning” as a descriptor for the “don’t bother me with the facts, I know what I WANT to believe and that’s all I need” mind-set of the majority of left brain thinkers. I like the new term—MR is not as “fussy” sounding as CD.

      And I hate to disabuse you from clinging to a positive and hopeful thought, but the research shows that trying to get the left brains to look at facts and rationally analyze them rather than relying on their emotions and beliefs only causes them to dig in their heels and become even more set in their beliefs, no matter how wrong they may be in terms of the “truth” of the matter. You and I will NEVER sway some of them but merely push them further into the self-delusional state. Discouraging. Read Mooney’s book—it is one of the most illuminating books I’ve ever read.

      • DaveH

        How about sharing some of those “facts”, Thinker, which you think you have a better grasp on?

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Thank you Dave H, for again proving my point. It is typical of motivated reasoners to refuse to look at the REAL facts of a situation and instead substitute horse manure from some wing nut source that supports their deeply held but non-factual beliefs and makes them feel good to repeat. OR they do as you have done and ask for the “facts” which they will then proceed to deny and attack, usually with much name-calling and petulance. I used the word “fact” three times in my comment and used it in a defining sort of way—meaning “an explanation of some observable phenomenon that fits what is observed and is agreed to do so by everyone”, i.e. the sun comes up every day, the sky is generally blue in color —my definition of fact, although a dictionary would say much the same. So—-if you are going to attack my “facts”, you are going to have to attack the fact that some people, unlike you and your ilk, think that facts DO exist, and that they may sometimes be useful in explaining and understanding the world. Or do you deny that fact?.

    • DaveH

      TA says — “If you are so interested in being in the 18th century”.
      What does that have to do with anything Bob said, TA? Socialism, aka Feudalism, aka Communism, aka any kind of totalitarian Government, is the normal human condition and it far predates the concepts of Liberty. You are the primitive one, TA.
      Liberty is timeless, and it gets more so with advances in technology which make it much easier for people to take care of themselves. All they (you) need do is put a little bit of effort into it. Quit riding on the unwilling shoulders of others, TA.

      • Thinking About

        The last time I checked my facts 1781 was in the 18th century, can you prove otherwise?

      • Flashy

        Ummm…it was 5541 by the Hebrew calendar…how about the 55th (or 56th) century?

      • DaveH

        Last I checked the Politicians still swear an oath to uphold the Constitution, TA.
        Your 18th Century comment was a non sequitur.

  • David Andrews

    This is a very intelligent article Bob. At the end you said, “almost 130 million Americans voted for fascism.” Voting for either of the candidates would be a vote for fascism, but most so-called Conservative sites call the Obama Administration something on the opposite end of the scale, i.e. Socialism or even Communism. Nobody knows the difference any more and I believe that is by design and very sad.

    • DaveH

      It really doesn’t matter which subcategory of Tyranny is presented, David. What Bob is trying to get through peoples’ Propagandized brains is that we know little of Liberty these days, by the design of the ruling elite. In all of those systems, whether Communism, Fascism, Socialism, or anything in-between, the small minority of the Leaders and their Cronies are taking advantage of the rest of the people by Force.

  • teddy maher

    Bob ….. Not withstanding your historical account of our evolution from the articles of confederation and the evolution of our constitution,we cannot ignore the wholesale ignorance that permeates the land when it come to the history of this great nation….Our educational system has failed us and has succeeded in dumbing down an entire generation…The fruits of this effort are before us and these so called educators want to be rewarded for destroying the fabric of this nation…

  • mark

    Dear Bob,

    Actually history has a lot more examples of horrible totalitarian governments being imposed at once – not at all gradually. Hitler’s Germany (the Reichstag fire decrees banning all oppostion parties, media, shutting down free speech came less than one month after Hitler’s assumption of the chancellorship), Lenin’s Soviet Union, Mussolini’s fascist Italy, Franco’s rightist Spain, the Guatemalan Colonels after the 1954 coup, Pinochet in Chile after a similar CIA-backed coup in 1973, the Brazilian Generals 1964-1989, General Torrijos in Panama, General Velazquez in Peru, Pol Pot 1975-1979, General Zia in Pakistan, all the Communist governments in Eastern Europe in the late forties, Tyrants move ruthlessly and swiftly, typically from day one. The gradualism you talk about is actually very rare..

    Also what does your example of the Japanese internment prove? You are absolutely right this was an egregious violation of the Constitution and cruel, unjust treatment of innocent Japanese Americans that included the loss of considerable property not to mention immense psychological and physical suffering (a policy supported by the way by about 99% of the American people of every political persuasion). The Japanese were all released in late 1944 after the vastly exaggerated invasion “threat” to the West Coast had supposedly passed. But the United States government has never interred another large ethnic/racial group in the 70 years since then. So where is the gradualism here? Why didn’t the U.S. keep carrying out this policy interning all Korean-Americans during the Korean War, all Vietnamese-Americans durihng the Vietnam War, all Arab-Americans during the Gulf War, or after 9/11? The United States never carried out another large scale, racial/ethnic internment. I think this is because the American people and government – rather than becoming gradually more tyrranical – realized the error and injustice of this policy. Today, indeed by the 1960s, most Americans, including officials, felt deeply ashamed of this policy. This was why a token and very unjust compensation and official apology was given to the victims. I see no gradualism at work here at all. Also FDR never needed the Federal Reserve system to carry out this injustice, all he needed was the overwhelming racism of the American people toward the Japanese that was huge in 1941-1945. In the 19th century, several U.S. administration interred tens of thousands of Amerindians on reservations without needing the Federal Reserve system – all they need for popular support of this policy was the vast racism of the American people that backed the government to the hilt in the case of Indians and later Japanese Americans.

    Sincerely, mark

    • DaveH

      Are you serious, mark? Rarely do tyrannical events come about suddenly without any prior ground work. If it were as easy as you say, the Progressives would have just taken Absolute Power 100 years ago. They couldn’t, because too many people still believed in Freedom and they knew they had to make an End Run around Liberty rather than a Frontal Assault.
      Hitlers accession to Power was made possible by the Treaty of Versailles established after WWI, and he spent decades preparing the ground work for the takeover. Mein Kampf, for instance, was published in 1925.
      Hitler was elected by promising to “fight communism and to end the unfair and vindictive [Versailles] treaty”:,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

      • mark

        DaveH, Hitler was an out-of-power crank, though growing in popularity, until January 30, 1933 when he was elevated to chancellor after winning 32% of the vote. Within one month of coming to power, following the Reichstag fire, he suspended all civil liberties and imposed a one party state. Progressive Liberals have been in power in the U.S. for 100 years if you count the election of Wilson in 1912 as the beginning of their domination. So after 100 years why have they not suspended all of the BIll of Rights? HITLER DID IT IN ONE MONTH! This is the slowest moving, most gradualist dictatorial take-over in history. Next you’ll be telling me that the Democrats/Republican have a 500 year plan to take away all of our freedoms. What a complete joke all this conspiratorial paranoia that you guys are selling is! Please. It’s always just going to happen. But it just never does.

        So many on this site swore up and down that once Obama was elected a second time the entire Constitution would be immediately and entirely junked. Obama would have no fear anymore of being reelected. Well, what has happened. Nada. You can still vote, you can still go to church, you can still write condemnatory articles against the president, you can still own guns, you can still organize protests, you can still participate in opposition political parties. You can still run an oppositional news network (FOX), talk radio, newspapers, blogs,etc. You could do none of thes things against the Nazis, one month after they came to power. Gradualism, my foot.

      • DaveH

        So, you think the Fort Hood massacre was an overnight event, just because the action wasn’t actually taken until the day of the killings?
        Obviously, you didn’t comprehend a word I said, mark, which shouldn’t surprise me.

      • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        mark says: Progressive Liberals have been in power in the U.S. for 100 years if you count the election of Wilson in 1912 as the beginning of their domination. So after 100 years why have they not suspended all of the BIll of Rights? HITLER DID IT IN ONE MONTH!

        There’s a little more to that then what you are willing to share, much much more. For those who wish a more comprehensive outline of who and what propelled Hitler to power, here’s a little sample:

        Adolf Hitler became Chancellor of Germany January 30, 1933, and absolute dictator in March 1933, after two years of expensive and violent lobbying and electioneering. Two affiliates of the Bush-Harriman organization played great parts in this criminal undertaking: Thyssen’s German Steel Trust; and the Hamburg-Amerika Line and several of its executives.

        Let us look more closely at the Bush family’s German partners.

        Fritz Thyssen told Allied interrogators after the war about some of his financial support for the Nazi Party: “ In 1930 or 1931 … I told [Hitler's deputy Rudolph] Hess … I would arrange a credit for him with a Dutch bank in Rotterdam, the Bank fu@aur Handel und Schiff [i.e. Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart (BHS), the Harriman-Bush affiliate].

        I arranged the credit … he would pay it back in three years…. I chose a Dutch bank because I did not want to be mixed up with German banks in my position, and because I thought it was better to do business with a Dutch bank, and I thought I would have the Nazis a little more in my hands… .

        “ The credit was about 250-300,000 [gold] marks–about the sum I had given before. The loan has been repaid in part to the Dutch bank, but I think some money is still owing on it…. ”

        The overall total of Thyssen’s political donations and loans to the Nazis was well over a million dollars, including funds he raised from others–in a period of terrible money shortage in Germany.

        Friedrich Flick was the major co-owner of the German Steel Trust with Fritz Thyssen, Thyssen’s long-time collaborator and occasional competitor. In preparation for the war crimes tribunal at Nuremberg, the U.S. government said that Flick was “ one of leading financiers and industrialists who from 1932 contributed large sums to the Nazi Party … member of `Circle of Friends’ of Himmler who contributed large sums to the SS. ”

        Flick, like Thyssen, financed the Nazis to maintain their private armies called Schutzstaffel (S.S. or Black Shirts) and Sturmabteilung (S.A., storm troops or Brown Shirts).

        The Flick-Harriman partnership was directly supervised by Prescott Bush, President Bush’s father, and by George Walker, President Bush’s grandfather.

        The Harriman-Walker Union Banking Corp. arrangements for the German Steel Trust had made them bankers for Flick and his vast operations in Germany by no later than 1926.

        The Harriman Fifteen Corporation (George Walker, president, Prescott Bush and Averell Harriman, sole directors) held a substantial stake in the Silesian Holding Co. at the time of the merger with Brown Brothers, Jan. 1, 1931. This holding correlated to Averell Harriman’s chairmanship of the Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation, the American group owning one-third of a complex of steel-making, coal-mining and zinc-mining activities in Germany and Poland, in which Friedrich Flick owned two-thirds.

        The Nuremberg prosecutor characterized Flick as follows:

        “ Proprietor and head of a large group of industrial enterprises (coal and iron mines, steel producing and fabricating plants) … `Wehrwirtschaftsfuh@aurer’, 1938 [title awarded to prominent industrialists for merit in armaments drive--`Military Economy Leader']…. ”

        For this buildup of the Hitler war machine with coal, steel and arms production, using slave laborers, the Nazi Flick was condemned to seven years in prison at the Nuremberg trials; he served three years. With friends in New York and London, however, Flick lived into the 1970s and died a billionaire.

        Full article here:

      • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)
      • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        Who Financed Adolf Hitler? The same folks that have financed previous presidents, and are financing the present potus!

  • http://none nick beck

    too late for voting and dont waste your wind on prayers to a figment of your imagination –gather up food stores,gold-silver AND LEAD and be prepared to use it. in the absence of that ,suck up the life style thats on its way—-i would also like to encourage all of us that are aware of the situation at hand to absolutely turn OFF the msm AND email all of their advertisers etc. —-total boycott—-they cant stay in business with 50% of the population. Any company that contributed to the sob s election , DISCONTINUE to patronize it and let them know why—–ITS TIME TO GET TOUGH,FIGHT DIRTY OR SHUTUP AND TAKE THEIR SH”””PERIOD

    • mark

      Dream on, nick. Why don’t you pile up ammunition and canned goods to the ceiling in every room of your house. Maybe that will make you feel better. Build a bomb shelter too, with a gun sight. Climb in it, lock the door, and stand with your rifle waiting for the FEMA guys to come and get you. Or rather the guys from the asylum.

      • http://none nick beck

        his ilk doesnt deserve a reply-he will get buggered by his fellow progressives

      • eddie47d

        Saint Nick says its time to “fight dirty, as if you haven’t been doing that for decades. So many have fooled themselves that the Republican Party is any purer than the Democrat party.

      • DaveH

        It is a necessary condition for any tyranny, mark, for numbnuts like yourself to complacently enable their gradual takeover.

    • mark

      Gee, DaveH, you’re resorting to ad hominem, personal attacks and insults calling me: “numbnuts like yourself.” This is generally what people do when they have lost the argument. Plus you’re always condemning people for lowering themselves to making personal and juvenile insults. Whats up with that?

      • DaveH

        You are a numbnuts, mark, and you just proved it by citing my name-calling of you after you made this statement to Nick — “waiting for the FEMA guys to come and get you. Or rather the guys from the asylum”.
        What is wrong with you Liberal Progressives?

      • mark

        I was just responding to Nick’s survivalist paranoia syndrome, quite common on this site. The guys from the Federal gov’t are always coming to get them. They never actually do but it’s fun to obsess about day after day, year after year. Don’t you see the humor in my reply? Loosen up DaveH, you’ve been chained to the mises institute website for too long. Get out more and start living. I’m heading for a hike myself after work. Then a couple of ice-cold beers. And I won’t be carrying a gun, or a copy of the Constitution, or worrying about the evil federal government coming to reduceus all to slaves. Or as Bob Livingston says – to fascists! Please. How much longer do you think you guys can sell this snake oil?

      • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        You could be right, mark. It could be that Nick and others like him are nothing more then delusional, conspiracy nuts. I’m with you. After all, suggesting that a dictatorship is a possibility in the great US of A is, well, rather difficult to believe. Dictatorships may have been realized in the past, and in most parts of the world, but for some to suggest that it can actually happen here, in the Us of A? well, that’s stretching it a bit too far, i agree! The socialist-progressives that have been, as you stated, in power for over 100 years, will never let that happen, regardless of the fact that they have facilitated all dictatorships in the past. This time, i’m quite certain, they will never allow history to repeat itself, despite the evidence to the contrary. We must stay positive, comrade, even if it means lying to ourselves, if necessary. Our illustrious Commander-in-cheif, would expect nothing less. Hail Obama!

  • http://personalliberty Pat Alexander

    Enemy far or within that proposes death to America or Americans will be dealt with by all Americans that cherish the the US Constitution.

  • reelman1946

    The sure slow rotting of a nation by naturally toxic socialist policies is guaranteed.
    The game now is to blame shift and promises of “next year”…
    as Fidel etc have done over the decades.

    Since America lost its real journalism, where are we?
    News is withheld, its held, its full of slanted adjectives…
    all favoring the demo-socialist path.

    Why bold lies, smears, demons and distractions work must be a combination of pawn media, Alinsky apostles, awful public colleges infected with socialists and the growing (on purpose) welfare class…whose votes are bought with worker money and 16 trillion we never had.

    So here we are…with only the House Repubs to blunt the socialist army.
    They are sheepish and want 30 year careers in the Oz of congress. Its an ugly picture.

    OzBama used over 900 Executive Orders and 30+ Czars, socialized medicine and shamed us abroad…how much more scourging of a nation is ahead? There are NO boundaries and if he gets one more SCOTUS then anything is legal, I mean anything.

    Gird your loins.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Reelman again proves my point by bringing up the outrageous and idiotic 900 EXECUTIVE ORDERS.

      The TRUTH of executive orders, which has been out there since the “900″ insanity began, is that Obama has signed fewer than 140 orders, that Obama has signed nearly the FEWEST executive orders of any president, and that the 10 or 12 that are pointed out as his “worst” were actually signed by previous presidents. EO’s are numbered consecutively and anyone who can count can see that EO’s in the 10 or 11 thousand series were signed by presidents going back to Kennedy. Obama’s EO’s begin in the 13 thousands. Look it up.

      Even if Reelman had seen the correct figures, motivated reasoning says he would have rejected them because they didn’t “fit” what he WANTS to be the truth. I challenge Reelman to look at the truth—Snopes and The American President’s Project will be enough. Prove me wrong by admitting that YOU are wrong.

  • http://none nick beck

    another note to all the so called christians that stayed home and did not get their rears out of the house and vote—you will deserve to trade your occasional church pew for a carpet lol

  • Gatlin

    How many in this forum had a slight twinge of concern when you wrote your response? How many are concerned when you search on-line that your inquiry could raise an inquiry? We are there, it is here and most will do nothing about it even if it is at
    the cost of their liberty.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      I’m hoping to be sent to one of the FEMA camps in Alaska. Are you aware that we have spent big $$$$ to build camps for 2 MILLION detainees up there if you would believe the wing nuts?.

      WAY up there, where we will have to spend more big $$$$ to ship all the victims of the upcoming “inquiries” AND spend big $$$$ to bring in food, guards, etc.

      Would have made more logistics and economic sense to build the camps right in the middle of the country. Oh well, maybe they can save a few bucks on kicking in our doors in the middle of the night by instead sending us letters ordering us to “self-deport” to the camps. I’m sure all us “sheeples” will do so without question.

      • DaveH

        Do you think the Jews would have voluntarily boarded those trains if they knew where they were going, and what their fates would be?

      • DaveH

        I don’t know if there are FEMA camps or not. But I certainly would not poo-poo those who claim there are. And I MOST certainly wouldn’t take the Politicians words for anything, given their past history of lying to the people throughout the history of our Country.
        Those people, who want to start the awakening, should read this book first to get a prepping on the reality of money and politics:

        And then read the next book to further the awakening:

      • DaveH
  • Tony

    All I have to say is those that have been indoctrinated by schools, women’s rights, gay rights and 9/10 blacks helped Obama in. I’d have to say someone maybe a racist.Those who think for self only, rather then what would be best for the USA should be ashamed of themselves but we know they aren’t

  • The Christian American

    The facts speak for themselves Mr. Livingston. War is financed by debt. Never in the history of the world has there been a stable three case society. They consist of a thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis. A thesis is stable, to a point. Then anti-thesis creeps in, a society steeped in turmoil. A synthesis emerges which is alway a two class society, Lords and serfs. You can see a two class society forming in America right now. The Lords knew the people would come to government to solve the problem. The synthesises mainly emerges as a fascist state. Musollini in Italy can be credited with first Fascist state. Hitler learned fom him. “Private” ownership / government (the Lords) control. We’ve got paper and the lords have the collateral backing it.

    When it was discovered people would trade with the certificates they received for the gold and silver coins they had on deposit with the banksters and let their gold and silver stay there, the bankers started to print counterfeit certificates and make loans them. They reasoned that fifty percent of the people’s gold and silver would stay with them so they’d always have enough for someone that wanted it. There was no gold or silver on deposit in the banks to cover the certificates they were printing.The bankers started making untold amounts of money by loaning counterfeit certificates. One of the banks biggest creditors was the people’s government. Banksters knew that during wars, governments would come to them for loans to finance their wars. War was / is the biggest money maker for the banksters. The more wars, the more money the banksters make. After WW1 people smelled a rat. By 29 the people were making runs on banks demanding their gold and silver. Since governments were the banksters biggest creditor, banksters and government colluded to take the people’s gold and silver and give them nothing but pieces of paper for it. Franklin Delano Roosevelt can be creditied for the largest theft in America by pulling that one off. The magnitude of the crime on the part of banksters and government makes the crime a statistic. Stalin said: “kill one man and it’s murder. Kill 10,000 and they’re statistics”. Knowing truth, people still equate wealth with how much paper a person has. People have been indoctrinated to put their Consitution and Bibles aside and trust “their” government. When John 3:16 becomes a reality, I would suggest believing it and not “the” government.

  • 4204life

    Democracy=Hypocrisy/ People better wise up fast. Those behind the illusion keep many in a state of confusion. Since money is fifty percent of most mediums of exchange it behooves us all to learn more about the money machinators. A parallel localized medium of exchange that is based on honest money/banking principles would allow people financially to actually stop complying and start nullifying onerous unconstitutional mandates.

  • Larry L. Stuler

    This country has already been taken over – by Great Britain’s bankers. Although Great Britain may have lost the Revolution, it sent in its bankers to bankrupt America (the center of the world’s banking is in London). This was accomplished in 1933 and the laws evidence this: title 11 United States Code, “Bankruptcy”, is implemented by title 11 Code of Federal Regulations, “Federal Elections” – we are simply electing a bankruptcy “administration”. The Code of Federal Regulations was written in the mid-1930’s in order to hide the actual jurisdiction that the bankers’ are using to implement their law.
    This country was founded by the Declaration of Independence which states that “all men are created equal”. The Constitution acknowledges this fundamental principle by only granting the federal government jurisdiction over foreign commerce, interstate commerce, and trade with the Indians – there is no jurisdiction over intrastate commerce, which is human action. Since “all men are created equal” there exists no federal mechanism to regulate any American.
    Great Britain’s bankers knew that they must slowly and deceitfully move to bankrupt the U.S. government and then move forward under foreign commerce where the U.S. government is sovereign. The gold-fringed flag is evidence of foreign commerce.
    When the bankruptcy of the U.S. government was accomplished there still was no way to subject Americans to any federal regulation.
    Since this country was founded on the principle that “all men are created equal”, there was no such thing as a “taxpayer”. The bankers’ solution was the preplanned creation of “Social Security”. The definition of “taxpayer” is at 26 CFR 2.1-1(a)(5): “Taxpayer means a citizen who has established or seeks to establish a construction reserve fund under the provisions of section 511 of the Act (Merchant Marine Act of 1936) and the regulations under this part, and may include a partnership.”. Further in this regulation at 26 CFR 2.1-1(b): “Insofar as the computation and collection of taxes are concerned, other terms used in the regulations in this part, except as otherwise provided, have the same meaning as in the Internal Revenue Code and the regulations thereunder.”
    The “Form SS-5″ that you used to apply for a Social Security number is actually a federal employment form. You joined the Merchant Marine and the S.S.# is your partnership number. During the War of 1812 Great Britain was impressing our Merchant Marine into service. Now, through the great Social Security Scam, we Americans are being impressed into service for Great Britain’s banks. Go to to read “The Bankers’ Blueprint to Destroy American Sovereignty” where all the actual statutes and regulations are in evidence directly from the government printing office.

    • The Christian American

      It’s no longer “great” Britain. It’s Britain. True, America’s Federal Reserve and it’s clones use Britain as their central meeting place now that America replaced Britain as the supplier of the world’s Soverign currency.

  • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

    The radical, anti-establishment, and leftist overtones of fascism may be the hardest for the present day American to grasp. Mussolini, Hitler, Franco, and their ilk appear in retrospect as right wing extremists of the most exasperated type. But it should be recalled that Mussolini in his early career was a socialist, and that even Hitler insisted on calling his movement National Socialism. There was a reason for this, and it was to recruit any and all disaffected anti-establishment and anti-politician forces into the new movement, including those coming from leftist backgrounds, no matter how antithetical and contradictory they might be among themselves. Mussolini and Hitler both claimed to be the real revolution, not the fake revolution that had been manifested as betrayal of the workers by corrupt socialist party and union bosses.

    The question of the fascist mass movement is the essential one. Anybody can become an individual fascist anytime they decide to do so. It is fair to say that Bush and Cheney had the mentality of fascists and were fascists, but this should not obscure the fact that they do not have a fascist mass movement and could almost never be capable of creating one.

    Fascist leaders have to be charismatic, energetic, feral, cunning, brutal, and eloquent. Bush was a class A war criminal, but he could hardly make it as the leader of a fascist mass movement. His shortcomings as an orator are alone sufficient to rule him out. So when Keith Olberman chose to denounce Bush as a fascist just as a number of commentators were beginning to notice the parallels between an Obama rally and a Mussolini balcony speech, we must suspect that this star of the Brzezinski network MSNBC was acting in bad faith, seeking not to educate his viewers about the essence of fascism, but rather seeking to confuse them on this score.

    The point is that Obama brings together more of the characteristic features of fascism than any other political figure on the U.S. scene, either now or in living memory. This need not mean that Obama represents the culmination or endpoint of fascist development in this country today.

    Obama may well be the John the Baptist of postmodern fascism, destined to fall by the wayside and be supplanted by a larger figure who may well build on the rage and bitterness of Obama’s disappointed followers. It does mean that the Obama candidacy already represents a significant step in the direction of postmodern fascism.

    Consider this series of names: Nitti, Giolitti, Bonomi, and Facta. If you do not know who they are, then you should admit to yourself that you know almost nothing about the genesis of Italian fascism in the years following World War I.

    These are the names of the Italian prime ministers who were in power in the years of economic crisis and national convulsion preceding Mussolini’s march on Rome in October 1922. Some of them, most notably Facta, were parliamentary cretins and nonentities.

    Giolitti, by contrast, was a politician of real substance and merit who had helped Italy develop modern railroads, modern industries, and a modern merchant marine, and who had fought to save his country from the incalculable folly of intervening in World War I on the side of the British and French. Whatever his faults, Giolitti can be considered at the very least as the lesser evil of the Old Order in Italy at that time, in something of the same way that the Clintons would have to be considered as a lesser evil in comparison with Bush the elder, Bob Dole, and Bush the younger.

    Several years went by after 1922 before most Italians realized that all the governments up to and including Facta had represented one thing, but that the country had gone off a cliff with Mussolini as far as political life and the rule of law were concerned. It was the fascist seizure of power of October 1922 which marked the great point of no return, the great watershed, even though this had not been obvious to many in real time.

    Source of article:

    • The Christian American

      Fascism gives people the illusion of ownership with government controls. Businesses that are finding that the government is their biggest customer are trapped in fascism. I think you give Obama to much credit. What he simply did was divide the nation to conquer it. People fall in two categories with him, Producers and Predators. Obviously it’s easier to corral the predators so all he had to do is make sure the predators out numbered the producers

  • FreedomFighter

    For all you commi soicialist gun grabbin facist snots…

    Ted Nugent-Kiss My Glock

    • mark

      Yeah, Ted Nugent. Another mental giant from the Right.

    • eddie47d

      Uncle Ted has the same capabilities as Uncle Mao and both advocate violence for their side of the equation.They are or were both equal in their thinking in wanting to control their fascist/commie power hungry followers.

      • FreedomFighter

        Bravo Sierra Eddie, as usual, Ted supports the constitution of the USA, freedom, liberty and personal resposibility…Mao was a commi killer of millions.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • eddie47d

        Uncle Ted is a fanatic blowhard and it seems like all that gunpowder did some damage.

  • Wes McKay

    40 % OF THE INDIVIDUALS ( I will not call them … people … or … Americans )





    INCREASES THE 40% OF FREELOADER TOO …………………………………… 60%






    • donald de

      I am a 73 yo man that has worked from the age of 18. The money taken from my paychecks for SS went to pay for your parents and Grandparents SS, depending on age,if they lived to collect. I have no problem is accepting my SS. In my life, I have used very little of Gov. money or programs for personal gain. My mother also worked for many years only to die two years after she died. Where did all of the money she paid in to the system go? (I know the answer).

      I also served in the U.S. Army. In addition, I followed the Laws of where I lived with very minor execptions. I beleive in America and in what the American way of life is suppose to be.

      For you to refer to me and others as a schumbag is offensive.

      • eddie47d

        I have expected nothing less from them Donald and these last 3 years have been an awakening in how the right really thinks. Its like they programmed landmines between their ears.

      • Flashy

        Donald de…the above post is indicative of many who post here. they’re also the ones who are quick to say they are Patriots…and even quicker to refer to violence and “taking back’ this nation (conveniently ignoring they never “had’ it to begin with) as a means to an end.

        Those posting as the above are the ones to laugh at. Write to the non-posting audience …they get your point. prepared for when the upcoming sequestration issue starts to boil. We’ll have tons of posts about there being no mandate, nonsense about the “will of the People’, many references to “Founding Fathers” (without naming any or by taking words wayyy out of context), voter fraud (even though almost all attempts at voter suppression and fraud occurred at the election board levels and above..and the large portion of such were by the GOP) etc etc. It truly will be entertaining…

      • DaveH

        Ahh yes, the Troll Flashman, whose hypocrisy knows no bounds:

        • donald de

          Troll, hypocrity…what is your point. Did I say something that was wrong?

      • DaveH

        I was talking to Flashman, Donald.

        • donald de


    • O.j. Eastwood

      That is the puppet masters plan. Why is it that our government does not know it? Answer; they do and are party to it. The sting is; both dem and rep are working together to take everything from the tax payer (land, homes, business, farms, oil, gas, cattle, savings, freedom and rights). They think they should be the rancher and you the cattle. They think; they are smart and deserving, and you are dumb and not deserving. They want you to think their is no God that has a son named Jesus born of a virgin named Mary. They know not TheTruth because they have fallen for the lies of the Devil. The Holy Bible has TheTruth in it freely for all to read. Evil makes gains only when TheTruth is hidden, such as in the 1890′s when law univerisities removed the Holy Bible and then in the 1960′s when government removed it from all public schools.

  • James

    I think we are are bing decieved by this adminstration. Petraus…..This is just a cover up! and we shouldn’t be giving Pakistan money, but Obama had two muslim friends from Pakistan.When he went to Occidental College Supposedly spent some time with them in Pakistan. People know nothing about him and refuse to believe. They will find out when it is too late. Couldn’t wait to run to the UN to get gun control—-Now, I know what people will say”It’s for the automatic rifle, how long will it take to trickle down to other guns? Of course other countries want to disarm America. The Russian leaders were glad Romney didn’t win. Obama is weak and other countries know and know what he is about. When he is weakening our military!!! We need a strong military! Who will Obama blame the last four years on????

    • eddie47d

      Russia and the USA built up their arsenal together and what an expensive folly that was. Now they are trying to reduce their arsenals together to economically save their nations. Are more international wars your plan James? What are your true motives in defending Romney who is willing to drum up even more conflicts. When is enough ENOUGH?

    • Thinking About

      Do you understand the importance of Pakistan? Do you realize we need Pakistan to remove our troops? Probably not plus they have nuclear weapons we don’t need going off in the world. We give money to many other countries and there are reasons why we do so.

    • Karolyn

      OMG! Obama had Pakistani friends!!!

  • RichE

    Did not the Founding Fathers go through this while they forged America? Are we above or below their abilities? Our common goal is, “We the people…” Please dispense with the bickering and get on to the task.

    Mr. Livingston, if you decentralize power you risk fracturing America into individual countries united in name only. How do you purpose giving states more power without becoming a fractured European Union?

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear RichE,

      You write: “Did not the Founding Fathers go through this while they forged America?” They did. From New Views of the Constitution of the United States by John Taylor, taken from Robert Yates’ Secret Proceedings and Debates of the Constitutional Convention: Quoting Yates, Taylor noted that the convention attendees viewed the Constitution as a compact among free and independent states and not the creation of a “national” government. “It was proposed and seconded to erase the word national, and substitute the words United States [plural in form] in the fourth resolution, which passed in the affirmative. Thus, we see an opinion expressed at the convention, that the phrase ‘United States’ did not mean a consolidated American people or nation, and all the inferences in favour of a national government are overthrown.”

      You write: “Mr. Livingston, if you decentralize power you risk fracturing America into individual countries united in name only.” That is exactly how the majority of the Founders viewed America. The Constitution was to provide for the implied powers in Article I, Section 8, and those only. When those are taken care of you have don’t have a “fractured European Union.” You need to study your American history.

      Best wishes,

      • RichE

        “…study your American history” So historians will save America?

        • Bob Livingston

          Dear RichE,

          You write: “……study your American history” So historians will save America?” No. So you won’t be so ignorant.

          Best wishes,

          • RichE

            Mr. Livingston,
            Since the “Problem” exists aren’t we all “Ignorant”. Who is smarter, the one who writes the manual or the one who reads it? The one who writes history or the one who makes history?

      • DaveH

        Typical Progressive behavior when cornered — resort to equivocation or double-speak.

        • RichE

          You ever wonder why the Jews wondered for forty years. If you don’t change your attitude you’ll find out.

          • Bob Livingston

            Dear RichE,

            You write To DaveH: “You ever wonder why the Jews wondered (sic) for forty years. (sic)” They WANDERED for 40 years because God made them wait until all adults above age 20 who failed to show faith in him died.

            You write to DaveH: “If you don’t change your attitude you’ll find out.” I’m not sure what this means, but threats will get you banned.

            Best wishes,

          • RichE

            Mr. Livingston,
            Not sure how you can construe that as a threat since you understood my point. The Jews wondered for forty years because the old ones wouldn’t change their attitude and I do mean wondered because they didn’t have a clue and because they didn’t have a clue God didn’t have a choice but to let them die off, but back to the point.Attitudes need to change or we’ll all die of wonderment.

    • The Christian American

      I believe we are / were a United States, joined together according to their Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The Founders had just fought a war with a central government that included them and wanted no part of it. What’s the tenth Amendment all about if the states didn’t have Autonomy?

      • RichE

        The Christian American,
        I was trying to make the point; if you gave the States autonomy then America would be like the EU.

  • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

    The men behind Barack Obama part 1 & 2

  • JDN

    Argue the left – right theories , hatred , whom may or may not be socialist or what one side voted for . It is all the same thing and irrelavent to the point that we are on the same course no matter who is in office . We have allowed our government to become the monster that it is with an appetite for power and growth that outstrips our ability to support it . This monster is now our master with the whip being aimed at us to submit and pull the load harder and faster uphill as the load becomes unbearable . Vote all you want and cheer when your side wins , but we all lose .

  • brett

    amazing how much milage one can get with a little bit of fact. dilorenzo’s, and the folsoms’s works are both of historical fiction, citing sources of sources of sources with no real valid primary sources cited except taken out of context. wish i had the time to nit pick this, beginning with how the early colonial argument for state rights had more to do with southern slave owning monied interest more interested in maintaining their own little empires than having to participate in a fledgling country and come under oversight from abolitionist (don’t forget that it was debated over even during the drafting of the declaration of independence). sorry bob, but for all of your crying over liberal revision of history, it is you and your ilk that are the culprits.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear brett,

      You write: “dilorenzo’s, and the folsoms’s works are both of historical fiction…” Hardly.

      Best wishes,

      • brett

        hardly; my left cheek! i thought i was being nice (like how you again avoided the meat of the critique)!

        • Bob Livingston

          Dear brett,

          You write: “(like how you again avoided the meat of the critique)!” When you offer some “meat” I will respond. You offered opinion.

          Best wishes,

    • brett

      an opinion of opinion!

      • brett

        to bob and the other lackeys here: even when i do submit actual facts they are otherwise dismissed or ignored (forget how you were bested when it came to jefferson and other founding fathers being deists?). you have all drunk your own kool-aid (although it would be nice if had been there to toast with jim jones), so there is no point is there?
        best wishes!

      • brett

        again!!! acquiescence!!

    • cmdorsey (@cmdorsey)

      Brett what do you think your emporer O’bama is doing? He’s building his own empire and when he is done with his useful idiots – you – the ends justify the means along with the rest of us.

      • Larry K.

        your right, as soon as he gets his empire built and he becomes the world’s leader he will throw you and all who voted for him, he’ll get rid of you.

    • DaveH

      brett says — “citing sources of sources of sources with no real valid primary sources cited except taken out of context”.
      Then you should have no trouble, Brett, supplying us with some factual references to back up your claims.

  • Tony Newbill

    Just before Hurricane Sandy, Obama signed executive order merging Homeland Security with private sector to create virtual dictatorship

    Learn more:

    Executive Order — Establishing the White House Homeland Security Partnership Council
    h tt p:/ / ww

    • D. Fields

      Did you even bother to read the order? I did, and all he’s doing is finding ways to cut costs by bringing in private agencies to help the DHS. It will still be controlled by the DHS and steered and monitored by every Federal agency that has anything to do with security, including Agriculture and the FBI.

      Please, at least pay attention to what you’re referencing so you don’t come off looking like a fool.

      • JeffH

        D. Fields says “…and all he’s doing is finding ways to cut costs by bringing in private agencies to help the DHS.”

        Bringing in private agencies? Doesn’t this wreak of cronyism?

        Hello, this is government you’re speaking of…whose only real purpose is to feather the nests of their crony partners.
        Cut costs mt arse!

        You’re another one of the usefull enablers D. Fields.

  • antonio

    Bah!! just more conspiracies….go back to sleep. You all let it get this far so just chill and enjoy the “conspiracy theories”…

    I posted this on my facebook page. Great article BOB!!

    • Jan

      And what in the he** makes you the wise sage of nothing? You’re one of the wonder kinds that sold America down the river no doubt. Does that proud Eagle bowing his head mean nothing to you oh wise a** Antonio?

  • Craig Wettstein

    I’m finding it impossible this veterens day, to feel ANY pride, in my minescule service to this country. But what’s worse…is the “SHAME” I feel for letting down the ones that sacrificed the ultimate….The millions of men, sons, and daughters that went out (starting with the Revolutionary War), to protect our liberties…NEVER to return to their homes and families!!! How have we let those Vets down you may be asking??? Stop and think about the sad irony of this last election….The very same minorities who’s rights and liberties were purchased with those lives, stood up in mass and proclaimed…”We do not want FREEDOM!!! WE WANT “SECURITY”!!! I find it sadly humorous and ironic, that we that fought to free the slaves, and protect the immigrants, should be enslaved by those we Freed!!!!!

    • cmdorsey (@cmdorsey)

      Craig, my heart is aching too. I saw the picture of that Eagle and I cried, and cried. They are so full of greed, hate, jealousy it takes them over. They have got to be so miserable with themselves, what else can they do but lash out at everyone else. They don’t even know history shows socialism, marxism, communism doesn’t every work. It’s a miserably failed experiment. Insane is doing the same thing over and over and it never changes. My dad was an AF vet stationed in Iceland in the mid-50′s. He was so proud to be a veteran. And I was so proud of him. We used to sit for hours and he would tell me about his job repairing planes and radar systems. He passed away in June 2009 and I miss him so much.Thank you, Craig, for your service. Millions of us appreciate your sacrifices. We now have so many spoiled kids but the unions and teachers are turning out little brownshirts. They know no history except how terrible and racist America is. Keep your chin up. We will get through it, we need to start teaching our children. They will destroy themselves with their own arrogance. God Bless!!

  • D. Fields

    Which is it, Fascism or Socialism? We can’t be going both ways because they are diametrically-opposed systems.

    Sheesh! It’s no wonder we lost! We don’t even know what the other side is doing!

    • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

      Socialism paves the way to fascism. Fascism is implemented in sequential stages…

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear D. Fields,

      You write: “Which is it, Fascism or Socialism? We can’t be going both ways because they are diametrically-opposed systems.” No they are not. They are, in fact, two totalitarian gangs fighting over the same turf.

      “Both are variants of statism, based on the collectivist principle that man is the rightless slave of the state—that both are socialistic, in theory, in practice, and in the explicit statements of their leaders—that under both systems, the poor are enslaved and the rich are expropriated in favor of a ruling clique—that fascism is not the product of the political “right,” but of the “left”—that the basic issue is not “rich versus poor,” but man versus the state, or: individual rights versus totalitarian government—which means: capitalism versus socialism.” From The Objectivist

      “Each activity and each need of the individual will thereby be regulated by the party as the representative of the general good. There will be no license, no free space, in which the individual belongs to himself. This is socialism — not such trifles as the private possession of the means of production. Of what importance is that if I range men firmly within a discipline they cannot escape? Let them then own land or factories as much as they please. The decisive factor is that the State, through the party, is supreme over them, regardless whether they are owners or workers. All that, you see, is unessential. Our socialism goes far deeper.” –Adolf Hitler

      Best wishes,

      • JeffH

        Bob, Thanks for everything you do with PLD. You’ve certainly had a positive effect on my perspective of American history and politics, something prior to 2008 I hadn’t given much thought to. I am now able to see that which I would never have seen before.

        • Bob Livingston

          Dear JeffH,

          You are welcome. Thanks for your kind words and continued patronage.

          Best wishes,

  • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

    Fascism A Socialist Leftwing Ideology: Communism, Fascism, Labor Unions, Workers And Students Exploiting ‘Crisis’

    “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” — Adolf Hitler, from speech delivered on May 1, 1927

    The fascism of the Nazis (as well as “fascism” in general) was a species of socialism – and socialism, as the belief that a giant government should usurp power to itself and take from individuals to give to other individuals, is inherently leftist. This is important to understand as we see history repeating itself.

    Gene Edward Veith, Jr. pointed out many of the elements that communism and fascism held in common:

    “The influence of Marxist scholarship has severely distorted our understanding of fascism. Communism and fascism were rival brands of socialism. Whereas Marxist socialism is predicated on an international class struggle, fascist national socialism promoted a socialism centered in national unity. [And in fact, Both movements were "revolutionary socialist ideologies."

    Both communists and fascists opposed the bourgeoisie. Both attacked the conservatives. Both were mass movements, which had special appeal for the intelligentsia, students, and artists, as well as workers. Both favored strong centralized governments and rejected the free economy and the ideals of individual liberty. And finally, fascists saw themselves as being neither of the right nor the left. They believed that they constituted a third force synthesizing the best of both extremes” [Gene Edward Veith, Jr., Modern Fascism: Liquidating the Judeo-Christian Worldview, p. 26].

    The rest:

  • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

    It bothers me a little when conservatives call Barack Obama a “socialist.” He certainly is an enemy of the free market, and wants politicians and bureaucrats to make the fundamental decisions about the economy. But that does not mean that he wants government ownership of the means of production, which has long been a standard definition of socialism.

    What President Obama has been pushing for, and moving toward, is more insidious: government control of the economy, while leaving ownership in private hands. That way, politicians get to call the shots but, when their bright ideas lead to disaster, they can always blame those who own businesses in the private sector.

    Politically, it is heads-I-win when things go right, and tails-you-lose when things go wrong.

    This is far preferable, from Obama’s point of view, since it gives him a variety of scapegoats for all his failed policies, without having to use President Bush as a scapegoat all the time.

    Government ownership of the means of production means that politicians also own the consequences of their policies, and have to face responsibility when those consequences are disastrous — something that Barack Obama avoids like the plague.

    Thus the Obama administration can arbitrarily force insurance companies to cover the children of their customers until the children are 26 years old. Obviously, this creates favorable publicity for President Obama. But if this and other government edicts cause insurance premiums to rise, then that is something that can be blamed on the “greed” of the insurance companies.

    The same principle, or lack of principle, applies to many other privately owned businesses. It is a very successful political ploy that can be adapted to all sorts of situations.

    One of the reasons why both pro-Obama and anti-Obama observers may be reluctant to see him as fascist is that both tend to accept the prevailing notion that fascism is on the political right, while it is obvious that Obama is on the political left.

    Back in the 1920s, however, when fascism was a new political development, it was widely — and correctly — regarded as being on the political left. Jonah Goldberg’s great book “Liberal Fascism” cites overwhelming evidence of the fascists’ consistent pursuit of the goals of the left, and of the left’s embrace of the fascists as one of their own during the 1920s.

    Mussolini, the originator of fascism, was lionized by the left, both in Europe and in America, during the 1920s.

    Even Hitler, who adopted fascist ideas in the 1920s, was seen by some, including W.E.B. Du Bois, as a man of the left.

    • JeffH

      Jay, I choose to refer to Obama as a hybrid communist…a conglomeration of fascism, Marxism, communism, progressivism…but his core is steeped in Marxism.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Jay, when an entity(government) takes power onto itself to regulate businesses, schools, hospitals, etc., the government in effect owns them.

  • Karolyn

    So, this history lesson just shows us that nothing has changed.

  • James

    Obama, made the statement, People voted, they liked his approach——many do not know what he stands for. I have even heard young women say they were going to vote for him because he is sexy—–This is what kind of people vote for a president. What ashame!!!!

    • Karolyn

      James, do you seriously think that is something new?

    • eddie47d

      They said the same thing about JFK and then movie star Ronald Reagan. Pointless comment from James.

  • James

    Wonder who Obama will blame the last four years on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

  • James

    No—I do not want to go to war, this is not what isaid. I said we need a strong military. I don’t think you really know what Obama stands for. I am a democrat. But Romney would have been better than what we have settled for.As far as Pakistan,I said Obama whent there with is friends ahd we can’t afford to give other countries money when we don’t have it to give. But Pakistan is making sure they have protection.

  • Liberterian

    Bob, your articles are always to the point and filled with the thought necessary for provoking people into a thought process of their own. We all often tend not to see the forest for the trees as was once stated. More of the truth may someday escape the power of lies and deciet. Reality always lies behind the shadows of deciet.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear Libertarian,

      Thanks for your kind words and for your continued patronage.

      Best wishes,

  • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

    When Saul Alinsky began building his community-organization movement in 1930s Chicago, observers were watching Alinsky with one eye, while with the other eye observing the building of communist and fascist movements in Europe. It wasn’t hard then to see in Alinsky’s programs at home, elements of the people’s revolution from Russia, as well as some of the same “in your face” tactics being employed by Hitler’s Brownshirts.

    What Alinsky’s critics saw was the burgeoning of a national movement, the carefully manipulated construction of people’s organizations, which all had two elements in common: (1) a collectivist creed, which denied the existence of personal responsibility; and (2) an amoral dogma, in which all means were justified by an imaginary utopian end.

    While most modern Americans remember well Hitler’s Holocaust and the Cold War waged by a solid U.S.S.R., many of these same Americans have swallowed some false history regarding the movements that spawned such widespread, horrendous results. In what may be regarded as the most triumphant propaganda victory of our time, fascism has been scrubbed of all its Marxist roots, while communism has been scrubbed of its millions of callous murders.

    This post-WWII propaganda coup undeniably set the stage for the early Alinsky critics’ most feared eventuality, that the massive organizations could be shrewdly adopted by a fascist demagogue, someone who could “seize leadership and control” and turn them into a “Frankenstein’s monster against democracy.”

    But perhaps the most cunning propaganda feat in history has been undertaken for the past 8 years. As Jonah Goldberg expertly expounds in his book, Liberal Fascism, American left-wing ideologues have managed to dissociate themselves from all the horrors of fascism with a “brilliant rhetorical maneuver.” They’ve done it by “claiming that their opponents are the fascists.”

    Alinsky himself employed this method, quite deviously. Alinsky biographer, Sanford D. Horwitt provides an anecdote using precisely this diabolical tactic to deceive the people. From Horwitt’s Let Them Call Me Rebel:

    “…in the spring of 1972, at Tulane University…students asked Alinsky to help plan a protest of a scheduled speech by George H. W. Bush, then U.S. representative to the United Nations – a speech likely to include a defense of the Nixon administration’s Vietnam War policies. The students told Alinsky they were thinking about picketing or disrupting Bush’s address. That’s the wrong approach, he rejoined, not very creative – and besides causing a disruption might get them thrown out of school. He told them, instead, to go to hear the speech dressed as members of the Ku Klux Klan, and whenever Bush said something in defense of the Vietnam War, they should cheer and wave placards reading, ‘The KKK supports Bush.’ And that is what they did, with very successful, attention-getting results.”

    In what may eventually prove to be a devious rhetorical feat of monstrous proportions, while the left has been indulging and fostering the “Bush Is Hitler” meme, they may have just put a genuine ideological fascist heir in the White House.

    There is inherent danger in making scurrilous comparisons (as were perpetrated unceasingly against George W. Bush), but there seem to be some very worrisome signs
    in the rise of Barack Obama that we Americans would be foolish to ignore.

    Obama, “the Closer”:

    • The Christian American

      I believe it was Marx that taught his people to identify there enemies with persons that the people found to be repugnant. Lenin said: People think in words and how they interpret words is who they are. We must develop new words and change the meaning of words to mold people to be what we want. Divide to conquer. That’s what Satan used between God and Adam and Eve. Worked for Satan then and it’s working for him now.

    • JeffH

      Jay, keep ‘em coming. :)

  • MasterBlaster

    Mr. Livingston, with all due respect, the last thing we need right now is a bunch of “gloom-n-doom” anecdotes, and how our Nation is going to hell in a hand-basket. How about some positivism, like supporting your local politicians who, in your opinion, would help our Nation by eventually ending up with the “big boys” in Washington and helping the Nation out? I read all your columns too, but, come on, enough with the negativism. We have just endured four years of the worst propaganda, from both sides, I have seen in my 70 years. Frankly, I’m tired of the “he-said-she-said” BS. Like my pappy used to say: “Don’t be a part of the problem, be a part of the solution.” You seem to be a fairly intelligent person, so offer some advice as to how we can improve things. I’ve been to a war and I’ve seen some nasty [expletive deleted], and worrying and fretting about what some thug from Chicago is going to do in the next four years is not going to help much. What we should be doing as loyal Americans is making sure that the next guy who lives in the White House is not some two-bit community organizer who got rammed down the throats of the uninformed by lies and deceit. So let’s put on our “big boy panties” and get to work…times a wastin !!

    • The Christian American

      The battle we find ourselves engaged in is between Christ and Satan. People have to chose sides. You can read about it in Matthew 24.

    • Karolyn

      I guess you’re new here. PLD does not feature good or positive news.

      • JeffH

        Karolyn, you’re such a hypocrit! Why do you waste your time here? Obviously you must enjoy all of this negativity and bad news that PLD presents. Oh yeah, that and your addictive nature keeps you coming back.

      • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        Karolyn says: I guess you’re new here. PLD does not feature good or positive news.

        The truth is seldom pretty, Karolyn, unfortunately. Of course, you can opt for a make-believe construct of reality, wherein everything is wonderful and peachy.

      • eddie47d

        As Karolyn said and you reiterated that this site is a den of “negativity” and “bad news”and nothing more than conquer and divide. (my words) I see the positive but its rare and not even on a daily basis. This site has changed me too Jeff H but that is not a compliment. I now look at the Republicans as some of the meanest most sinister people within our country. I grew up admiring Conservatives but not after what I’ve heard from many right here and only in 3 years. Its really hard to tell which side is out to ruin our nation. The Republicans definitely are not saving it!

      • Karolyn

        But what is wrong with good news??? And, believe it or not, it does happen! Surprise, surprise!

      • Karolyn

        Jeff – Why does it bother you so much?

      • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        Karolyn says: But what is wrong with good news???

        Nothing. If you have any, please share.

      • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        Eddie says: This site has changed me too Jeff H but that is not a compliment. I now look at the Republicans as some of the meanest most sinister people within our country. I grew up admiring Conservatives but not after what I’ve heard from many right here and only in 3 years. Its really hard to tell which side is out to ruin our nation. The Republicans definitely are not saving it!

        That’s a shame, eddie. I, on the other hand, have learned a great deal at PLD, for which, i will always be grateful. Its unfortunate that you have allowed yourself to become so embittered, and the reason for which, i perceive, has nothing to do with PLD, and may, i propose, have everything to do with your inability to cope with a opposing view(s), however caustic. Btw, you are not exactly innocent, nor are you a light-weight, when it comes to the art of mud-slinging. So cheer up, and realize that you are here because you are not so much different than some you are referring to, and, i would go so far as to say, that your critic of them is your way of saying that you identify with them, as well, and by your own admission, you may be far worse.

      • JeffH

        Karolyn says “Jeff – Why does it bother you so much?”

        It doesen’t bother me at all but it obviously bothers you…that you’re called a hypocrit and rightly so. That and you’ve become a whiner.

  • Combat seabee

    @ Flashy,
    You fail to understand that “Theory,” only tells you how it is supposed to work, but is totally irrelevant when it doesn’t!!! So much for your “Political Theory.”

  • Mark Mayhugh

    Did “ron . r” actually read the article? The comment has nothing to do with the article. It looks like a troll just pasting his viewpoint everywhere. I would suggest deleting the comment (and mine too), since its main point about leading from behind or the front does not even appear in the article that this comment is supposedly about.

  • http://N/A Charles R. Tuma

    The reasons the framers of our government were many. You forgot to mention several of the important ones. (1). Money. Each State was printing their own money and it made it impossible to conduct commerce. If you were from Virginia and you went to buy something from New York you would be told that Virginia money wasn’t any good here….you have to have New York money. And vise versa.Thisproblem didn’t exist before as everyone was using the King’s money. And if you were married in New York you moved to Virginia your marriagewouldn’t be honored and your children were considered bastard. Oviously some thing had to be done.There was a a real need for a central government. Enough for now.

  • Diane Seville

    By the way Mr. R. Smith

    God is spelt with a captial “G” and I pray that He will have mercy on your soul. From one of them there right wing Christian.

  • Fastrax

    You wrote a nice piece Bob. Thanks for bringing A. Jackson into it.
    There are some good comments. Nevertheless, it seems some of
    the comments are not on point, having drifted away from the facts that
    you presented. The polemics that follow “issues” paraded before the
    public by our two party system will, of course, go on and on, in perpetuity.
    Once again, in this election cycle, the two parties are simply two sides
    of the same coin. There was no difference between Obama and Romney-
    “not a dime’s difference”. I think a lot of folks understood this, as voter
    turnout was low. I feel low turnout points in the direction of, and reflects
    that there was indeed some “Transparency” as to what was really going
    on. Voters looked beyond the adds and blitz of our mass media-hyped
    “presidential selection” process. Except for appealing to the needs of the
    cornucopia crowd that expected a flood of gifts from Santa and his printing
    press managers, the substantive candidate and issues of 2012 were
    completely rejected by a closed-door and monolithic Republican party.
    Remember Rome’s bread and circuses? We’re on the fastrack.

    After this election, I feel very deeply why the founding fathers sought to
    protect us from the tyranny of the majority. They formed a Constitutional
    Republic, not a Democracy. Do Republicans really have a place in this
    devolved Democracy? Regardless, the election process is a one party
    system with two branches- us and them, the horns of a dilemma for
    eternity, or until We the People wake up.

    Unless, I am missing something, the Supreme Court, in regarding Obama
    Care, has taken the position that the Court is not there to protect us from
    politicians. Well, that’s fine and good. Well then, how about protecting
    the Constitution from the onslaught against it over the past century by
    politicians? Could it be that our Supreme Court is on drugs, the same drug
    of choice as the two party system… Federal reserve notes [mmmm-good]
    so refreshing? Not for long America. I’ll stop here. :o)

    • speedle

      You made some good points here Fastrax until you wrote, “There was no difference between Obama and Romney-“not a dime’s difference”.” This is an incomprehensible statement that I have heard so much here that it makes me want to puke. It is pure sensational bull [expletive deleted]. If we can’t recognize the difference between the philosophies of these two there is no hope to make sense of what we need to do to overcome this setback.

      • Wake The Sleepers(Jay)

        40 Points That Prove That Barack Obama And Mitt Romney Are Essentially The Same Candidate.

        1. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both supported TARP.

        2. Mitt Romney supported Barack Obama’s “economic stimulus” packages.

        3. Mitt Romney says that Barack Obama’s bailout of the auto industry was actually his idea.

        4. Neither candidate supports immediately balancing the federal budget.

        5. They both believe in big government and they both have a track record of being big spenders while in office.

        6. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both fully support the Federal Reserve.

        7. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are both on record as saying that the president should not question the “independence” of the Federal Reserve.

        8. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have both said that Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke did a good job during the last financial crisis.

        9. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both felt that Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke deserved to be renominated to a second term.

        10. Both candidates oppose a full audit of the Federal Reserve.

        11. Both candidates are on record as saying that U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has done a good job.

        12. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have both been big promoters of universal health care.

        13. Mitt Romney was the one who developed the plan that Obamacare was later based upon.

        14. Wall Street absolutely showers both candidates with campaign contributions.

        15. Neither candidate wants to eliminate the income tax or the IRS.

        16. Both candidates want to keep personal income tax rates at the exact same levels for the vast majority of Americans.

        17. Both candidates are “open” to the idea of imposing a Value Added Tax on the American people.

        18. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both believe that the TSA is doing a great job.

        19. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both supported the NDAA.

        20. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both supported the renewal of the Patriot Act.

        21. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both believe that the federal government should be able to indefinitely detain American citizens that are considered to be terrorists.

        22. Both candidates believe that American citizens suspected of being terrorists can be killed by the president without a trial.

        23. Barack Obama has not closed Guantanamo Bay like he promised to do, and Mitt Romney actually wants to double the number of prisoners held there.

        24. Both candidates support the practice of “extraordinary rendition”.

        25. They both support the job-killing “free trade” agenda of the global elite.

        26. They both accuse each other of shipping jobs out of the country and both of them are right.

        27. Both candidates are extremely soft on illegal immigration.

        28. Neither candidate has any military experience. This is the first time that this has happened in a U.S. election since 1944.

        29. Both candidates earned a degree from Harvard University.

        30. They both believe in the theory of man-made global warming.

        31. Mitt Romney has said that he will support a “cap and trade” carbon tax scheme (like the one Barack Obama wants) as long as the entire globe goes along with it.

        32. Both candidates have a very long record of supporting strict gun control measures.

        33. Both candidates have been pro-abortion most of their careers. Mitt Romney’s “conversion” to the pro-life cause has been questioned by many. In fact, Mitt Romney has made millions on Bain Capital’s investment in a company called “Stericycle” that incinerates aborted babies collected from family planning clinics.

        34. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney both believe that the Boy Scout ban on openly gay troop leaders is wrong.

        35. They both believe that a “two state solution” will bring lasting peace between the Palestinians and Israel.

        36. Both candidates have a history of nominating extremely liberal judges.

        37. Like Barack Obama, Mitt Romney also plans to add “signing statements” to bills when he signs them into law.

        38. They both have a horrible record when it comes to job creation.

        39. Both candidates believe that the president has the power to take the country to war without getting the approval of the U.S. Congress.

        40. Both candidates plan to continue running up more government debt even though the U.S. government is already 16 trillion dollars in debt.

      • speedle

        Yes, and they both have five fingers and a thumb on each hand, and two eyes, and they both speak English, and (the most astonishing thing) they both like ham and eggs for breakfast.

        Give me a break Fast

  • speedle

    Bob, congratulations. You have managed to Pi–off just about everyone with this post. I don’t think your rant about all the wars and the debt incurred passes the smell test in terms of identifying the source of our financial problems. Are you suggesting that we could have somehow avoided the debt incurred by WWII by simply refusing to particpate? OMG.

  • Bimbam

    This “gradulism” as you call it is already working.

    Note how the Commander-in-Thief opened a salvo stating, “the rich must pay their fair share…”.

    He’s trying to sound agreeable, soften you up for the next salvo of lies all designed to slowly turn you into the lion’s lair where he can really beat up on you.

    I’ve said it over and over, the little man does not belong there with his mothers, Hillary, Jarret, Neoplolitano, MEchele, Soeteymayor, Kagan, etc.

    WE ARE BEING RULED BY WOMAN AND CHILDREN. Yet as a Muslim he is violating his own sacred tenet! In his own mind narcissm RULES!

    • tlgeer

      “Note how the Commander-in-Thief ”

      With just this statement you have proven yourself to be someone who’s word has no meaning.

      “I’ve said it over and over, the little man does not belong there with his mothers, Hillary, Jarret, Neoplolitano, MEchele, Soeteymayor, Kagan, etc.”

      His Mother’s? Are you insane? His Mother is dead. Michelle is his wife. None of the others are related to him.


      ?? Please explain this contention.

      Yet as a Muslim he is violating his own sacred tenet! In his own mind narcissm RULES!”

      Obama is not, and never has been, a Muslim. Repeating this lie does not make it true. It just makes you wrong.

      • Bimbam

        Nice try liberal plant.

        Try to sow seeds of doubt when we get people thinking. Neutralize, neutralize, has been ingrained in that tiny teeny mind of yours. Even your avatar is designed to throw us off.

        Critical thinking was thrown out a long time ago from schools. They call it washing the brain I think. But I’m sure you can shorten that phrase for me you are so clever.

  • Oliver K. Manuel

    Thanks, Bob Livingston, for the excellent essay.

    From the time the United Nations was established on 24 Oct 1945, government science was compromised to obscure the energy stored in the cores of heavy atoms (like U and Pu) and ordinary stars (like the Sun).

    Climategate finally exposed the shadow of this cancerous growth after it had developed out-of-sight for sixty-four years (2009 – 1945 = 64 yrs): The Big Brother Orwell predicted:

    Here’s the last chapter of the slow rise of a totalitarian one-world government under the UN and the steady loss of constitutional limits on government since 1945.

  • Ethan

    I was begnning to think you would never get around to this article.
    If Missouri doesn’t secede from the union I’m moving to a state that does.

  • TML

    The only thing stronger than fear, is hope

    • Bimbam

      You hope! …..hehehehehehe……

  • Dee

    The socialist/communist, believes in redistributing the wealth of all the US citizens for the benefit of the third world countries, but is a hippocrit himself because it cost the American people 1.4 billion to keep this family in the lap of luxury they are now used to, more than it cost the UK to keep the Royals in their customary living style.

  • Jack Worthington

    Etienne de la Boetie recommended massive civil disobedience. Juries must refuse to convict on income tax cases and simple traffic cases where no damage to person or property occurred. One can simply refuse to consent to tyranny in such simple ways and the power of the commie/socialists criminal politicians is disrupted and removing the “money” effectively terminates their evil corruptions, well, somewhat.

  • Dave Kirby

    Actually Bob made a lot of good points about the gradual change of the American Government. You can like it or not. Unfortunately, most of you missed the fact that Bob was referring to both presidential candidates not really siding with either one. It was very obvious that although he mentioned much of the freedoms lost under Republican leadership, he did not name them as he did FDR, LBJ, etc. Anyway, Bob’s site, here sure has a way of stimulating a spirited argument.

  • tesmith47

    interesting thought, but you seemed to forget that there were european indentured servents and african slaves,, they probably did not think there was much fredom

  • Jeremy Leochner

    The problem with the gradualism theory is fascism does not spread and grow and take over gradually. It does not do it through subtle and incremental steps over a very long period of time. Mussolini the first great standard bearer of fascism seized power in an armed revolution not 5 years after World War 1. He did not do so gradually. Or perhaps Hitler who fashioned his career on the Italian dictator. Hitlers first major attempt to take control of Germany and impose his version of fascism was by trying to start an armed revolt in a beer hall with a machine gun. And while in prison he wrote Mein Kampf where he laid out his views and ideas. And bear in mind in both Italy and in Germany history was on the side of absolutism or at least monarchism. Italy at the time of World War 1 had a tradition of absolute rulers going all the way back to the Roman Empire. Mussolini himself even saw his efforts as bringing about a new Roman Empire. The same went for Germany. By the time of World War 1 Germany had been ruled by the Hohenzollern Empire since 1871. The Hohenzollern Empire was the Second Reich to Hitlers Third Reich. So for both Mussolini and Hitler when they came to power they were filling in a role the people were accustomed to. They lived in societies and cultures that were based around rulers if not absolute rulers and they had a glorious past of absolute rulers to look to and call on for support. In our country however society, culture and history are all against rulers much less absolute ones. Our revolution was against what the founders perceived as the British Monarch becoming more and more absolutist. And even before that the very British colonies were founded and expanded without the direct authority of any real ruler of any kind. So from the founders of the colonies to the founders of the republic absolutism and monarchism and even the idea of having rulers rather then representatives have never taken root on this continent. And any attempt to impose such ideas would meet nothing but scorn and contempt by both contemporaries and posterity as Mr. Livingston shows. And at the end of the day I would point out that from The Alien and Sedition Acts to The Japanese Internment Camps to Abraham Lincolns suspension of the Writ of Habeas Corpus, the most egregious and blatant violations of due process have since been rectified and condemned. I am no student of fascism but rarely do I associate fascism with ending once some one new is elected. Rarely do the emergency powers go away once the emergency is over if its fascism. And with respect Mr. Livingston I hardly consider “The price and wage controls, overzealous interpretation of the commerce clause” or The War on Poverty and Drugs to be evidence of a fascist state. At the end of the day our country is not now nor is it anywhere near being under a fascist dictator. The way I always know is when I see an article like this. Because while I may not know much I do know this. In a country that is being ruled by fascism you do not hear people talking about it. And especially not on an article posted by a former senator where he accuses the current President and administration of being fascist.

  • pissed off and liberal

    Mr livingston while you and i disagree on many things i would be remiss not to congradulate you on this fine article. well done sir

  • Viola Perry

    As long as people point the fingers at one party we cannot move forward. Just think, both parties got us into this mess, it was not just one party and yes, Clinton started off by looting the pensions early 1990s and then came NAFTA. We should have listened to Ross Perot
    but we have no sense.

  • Lawrence

    We have been slowly advancing into fascism for over 150 years. But you see, God has his time table and he has accelerated it in the last24 years. He could have slowed it a bit with Mitt but I believe he decided to speed it up. The great pretender will surely be the instrument of God to reduce America to a 3rd rate mobochracy. I am saying this: America is under judgment. Unless God allows us to repent we are done for.

  • JCfromDC

    For all the brouhaha about the “march to fascism”, BOTH sides of the aisle have played a part. However, what the Left and neo-liberals (the real fascists) have completely forgotten is that Fascism is an invention of the LEFT, for all of your carping about republicans and “conservatives” (classic liberals), it is YOU who invented this kin-sister to socialist, Marxist communism.
    Look at the news, everything is branded with a “war motif”, like the “war” on women. What “war”? Women are protected better than a near-extinct species in this country. A woman can murder her husband or children and walk from the same evidence that would hang a man! Go to Iran or Afganistan and see how well Islam treats theirs over a Christian nation (and yes, we are!) This constant call for “action (any action) to a “crisis” or crises, that doesn’t even rise to the level of one (Avain flu? remember?) The “war on freedom” is a “conservative” attack??? Since when? We love a debate… a REAL debate, without the commentator rigging YOU always enjoy. We will defend your right to differ, but when will YOU defend OUR right to do the same? When have you? I’ve seen this going on since the late 60s. What the about the thought/speech police on campuses? Conservative papers, clubs, rallies, seminars are regulary trashed, mobbed and burned in the name of “free-speech” (liberal free speech) like the Nazis did the Jews on the Crystal Night raids. It’s always the few times when YOUR ox gets gored that you make it sound like the end of the world as we know it, when it is YOU who are ushering it in with blinders on. Yet you have the GALL to call conservatives “Fascists”. Look in the mirror.

  • john kemp

    lets look at history for a moment ,maybe we the world of 2012 can learn a lesson .Ask your self how did Italy solve their fascist problem.History says when the people had enough they killed them where ever they where found them.They might be on to something

  • Skip Mendler

    Fascism is a disease of the body politic. Like other diseases (herpes, for example) the causative agent is always present in the environment, but usually the body has sufficient defenses to keep it from taking hold. The virus gains a foothold when the organism is placed under stress. (Look at Greece at the moment, where the financial stress is allowing the Golden Dawn movement to grow.)

  • old farter

    Forward & more means nothing left behind. It’s time to give the old bird a rest – no rabbits left to hunt – just green houses, green cement, green currency and nothing to eat or jobs to make things we need to survive. We need a new bird that can live off of scraps, pick maggots off bones, & circle high above to make sure the weak and dying don’t get away without giving their fair share! What better and more noble icon for the cause in every respect imaginable — than graceful long wings, soaring high above together searching for their common cause, long neck following all things, big beady eyes missing nothing, and a big sharp beak to tear the flesh off anything unable to protect itself – Let’s hear it for our new politically correct big bird – THE VULTURE – our new national symbol!


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