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The Road To Ruin

May 22, 2012 by  

The Road To Ruin
The auto bailout failed.

The list of things the Federal government does well is fairly short. It comprises items like the 3rd Infantry Division; the United States Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colo.; the Eisenhower Interstate Highway System (except that part near New York City that has been under construction since Ike was still alive) and… er… the dime is a nice coin.

The list of things the government does poorly is — obviously — much, much longer and includes essentially everything else. It’s probably worth noting that some things the government does well — like arming Mexican narcoterrorists and lying about it to Congress or teaching fourth-graders proper condom application — don’t really deserve a place in the “good” category. Actually, given the fact that the Nation’s teen pregnancy rate is skyrocketing like Bill Clinton’s blood pressure in a plus-size strip club, the government doesn’t deserve credit for condom application in either direction.

Also earning a place on the latter list: automobile manufacturing. Last week, an analysis by economist John Lott that appeared in the National Review (and went unremarked upon by the corporate media) revealed that Barack Obama’s 2009 bailout of the auto industry is likely one of the greatest boondoggles of the modern age. In order to allow his union cronies to take control of the beached whale that was General Motors Co., Obama handed the largest of Detroit’s “Big Three” $100 billion in taxpayer money. According to figures released last week, GM is now worth about one-third of that figure.

The plan, of course, was to infuse with our cash the same company that brought you such revolutionary designs as the remarkably pedestrian Epsilon platform, which currently keeps nearly 20 (!) GM cars on the road. And who could blame Obama for the gift? Where would we be without the magnificent Chevy Malibu and the spectacular Saturn Outlook (RIP)? (Answer: stranded at the airport since the rental counters are flush out of cars.) In Obama-speak, spending $100 billion in taxpayer money to purchase a life jacket for a company that has collapsed under the weight of union contracts is called rescuing “the heart of American manufacturing.” It is worth mentioning that those contracts drove GM’s manufacturing costs-per-hour to nearly $30 higher than Toyota Motor Corp.’s, and its products are still underdesigned.

Even more amazing is the manner in which GM has spent our money. For $100 billion, we got the Corvette, a couple of the Cadillac models, the literally smoking-hot Chevy Volt and a plurality of the fleet cars in North America.

Despite the Brobdingnagian blunder that is the company we now affectionately call “Government Motors,” Obama actually crows about the bailout as a success on his campaign website and in a new television ad campaign, claiming he “Refused to Let the Auto Industry Vanish.” His claims are cheered by the usual liberal suspects who either make vague claims about the reinvigoration of the moribund GM, refer to the successes of the “Big Three” without mentioning Ford Motor Co.’s refusal to accept a bailout (we’re looking at you, Chris “Double Jeopardy” Matthews) or flat out lie. Most of Obama’s claims fall squarely in that third category. His new ads tout “millions” of jobs saved. That’s a hell of a trick considering the total number of jobs in the American automotive industry — including bailout-denying Ford and Toyota — is about 700,000. What’s worse — and wisely unmentioned in Obama’s ads — is the fact that as of now, General Motors (from Volts to bolts) is worth about $34 billion.

In 2005, GM began showing cracks in its foundation, losing more than $10 billion. The unwieldy union deals (virtually untouched by the Obama bailout) were forcing the company toward bankruptcy. The losses mounted until December 2008, when the company admitted it was almost out of cash. Obama swept in, fired then-CEO Rick Wagoner and upped the taxpayer ante to a cool $100 billion, which now is not only beyond possible to repay but beyond the total value of GM by a factor of three.

In one of Obama’s auto industry ads, he mentions: “What happened in Detroit can happen in all sorts of communities…” Despite Obama’s infamous insincerity, he really means it. Judging by his economic “successes” like GM, if he’s re-elected he can do it, too.

–Ben Crystal

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • Bob

    ive been saying for YEARS,he is not an ECOMOMIST,he if a F—–G idiot…

    • DaveH

      That comment carries a lot of weight. Not.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Bob, What you need to keep in mind, is that he knows exactly what he is doing and why he is doing it. He is not and idiot, just demented.

    • Gerald Key

      He knows exactly what he’s doing. It just has never worked any time it has been tried! (Marxisn/Socialism)

      • nc

        Gerald, SOMETHING WORKED that created the figures evidenced in the study done at “Bull, Bears Donkeys and Elephants” which shows the profits made in the stockmarkets from 1929 through 2008! Go there and see for yourself! Please notice that the vast majority of those profits were made during the administrations of Democrat Presidents!If they were socialist/marxist/leninist/ commie/ whatevers they sure as h*ll knew how to produce free market profits and strong economies!!Even the conservative owned and operated Forbes magazines did a study in 2004 that backs up the strength of the Democrat administrations during this same period!!!! “Prosperity and the presidents” @! Go to these sites and study them! It won’t kill you! May even show what a big lie the old Republican slogan of “Democrats are socialist who, if elected, will destroy our economy.”
        Doesn’t really seem to true when you look at the facts instead of drinking ths kool aid! Does it???

      • Pete0097

        NC,why don’t you look a little closer, the congresses might be Republican. Also, the democrats of old were fiscally conservative and socially liberal more like today’s Republicans. The dems today are only interested in getting re-elected and will do or say anything to get re-elected. The Reps are interested in getting re-elected, but want to improve the country as well knowing that their children will have to live here and be prosperous as well..

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        nc says “trickle down” doesn’t work. Let’s see…were we better off three years after Reagan was elected or three years after obummer was elected? I’ll take trickle down, thanks.

      • Flashy

        Well. Reagan did give us debt, the war on the middle class, the beginning of the largest redistribution of wealth in mankind’s existence … So Nancy, on that tricked down you ay you prefer…..why is the trickle coming from the wealthy uppuier class yellow in color?

      • eddie47d

        Reagan was a good President yet not always the wisest. He pushed for deregulation which turned the banksters loose and the shenanigans of the housing industry were in full bloom. In his favor he also took on the Banksters for doing wrong but his way of doing business later lead to those same businesses creating the collaspe we are now experiencing. .

      • turfdome

        nc- 29 through 50 is not a time period anyone would consider a boom. 50s Ike helped create a boom that JFK, the only Dem pres to cut tax rates in the recent history of the party, rode like a surfer on a wave. Then Johnson sewed the seeds of economic malaise that did in both Nixon & Carter, both economic ignoramuses. Reagan set the stage for Clinton to look good, but he (Clinton) screwed the golden goose & Bush came in on recession. Nonetheless unemployment was below 5% during his, Bush’s, time, not climbing til the economy was killed by subprime Dems, who funded ACORN and expanded Barney & Dodds insanity at Fannie & Freddie, spread through the world by GoldmanSachs. When did the Dems take over Congress? 2006, though they had ‘dirty-tricked’ the entire time the Reps were in power, with media help they stopped all Rep fixes for their crap.

    • Vigilant

      “In one of Obama’s auto industry ads, he mentions: “What happened in Detroit can happen in all sorts of communities…”

      And he considers that a positive? Anyone seen a documentary lately about the sorry state of the failed city of Detroit? It’s gutted remains should be roped off, and tickets sold to see this monument to the failures of socialism.

      • Christin


        Isn’t that a fact. I have seen the photos of the ganged marked, broken down, abandoned buildings in Detroit… what a waste and NO ONE has a clue to clean it up and rebuild and start a small town again.

        I got an e-mail showing the sorry state of present day Detroit and the city in Japan after we dropped the bomb and what it now looks like. Japan is rebuilt and prosperous, Detroit is a slum and a waste of real estate in America.

        • aladd

          Japan was built back up so fast because the U.S. and other countries paid for it. That’s what happens, Tax dollars pay to destroy, do to war, then tax dollars pay to rebuild, after war.

    • Flashy

      Well..Bob if you are referring to anyone who takes any credence from the article by Lott…I’d tend to agree with your statement. My guess is you didn’t take a moment to read the article in the National Review. Barest of hard facts, a number of assumptions, very weak analysis and a concluding opinion dubious in basis.

      take the times. A huge sector of our heavy manufacturing base and a large segment of our nation already struggling with loss of jobs and industry. (Midwest). Huge companies. About to go under for a number of reasons…bad planning, mismanagement, burdensome labor contracts, out dated plants, cash flow crisis, etc. An economy free falling and on the brink of a depression. Lose GM and Chrysler and a large manufacturing base is gone. Poof. (remember, when WWII hit these plants switched quickly and made tanks, planes etc). A Nation without heavy manufacturing is asking for trouble.

      Normal times, bankruptcy would resolve everything and the companies would be able to downsize, revamp loans and Lines of credit, adjust stock basis etc. But those weren’t normal times. Economic freefall, brink of a Depression, and there was NO CREDIT. y’all tend to forget about that small item. BK would have extinguished both companies. There would have been no workout. None. Bondholders and shareholders would have gotten zip.

      There were no laws broken. The rules didn’t change. The feds came in and said they weren’t writing blank checks as what occurred with Wall Street and under the Bush II monies GM and Chrysler received. There had to be a plan in place, then the feds would extend the credit the market couldn’t (remember the times, there was no credit available anywhere). Also don’t forget the auto industry has close to a 10-1 multiplier effect..for every direct job in auto industry, it effects 10 others. was far more. Wipe out the auto industry, what effect would it have on steel, coal, railroads, trucking, etc?

      Lott also takes offense to…tax relief. So, we have a far right ‘economist’ taking offense with tax relief? Seriously? Interestingly, he places that as a “cost” for the bailout. i guess then, he would say eliminating those tax breaks would be good and not a “cost’ to the government.

      Those are just some issues with anyone accepting the premise of the short, brief, fact bare analysis so hyped in today’s article. It holds about as much water as a wire screen mesh.

      BTW..back from my business trip…y’all miss having those pesky facts pointed out and to deal with in developing your rants?

      • s c

        Flushy, like the vast majority of all utopians, you never learned the difference between facts and a fax. Your “logic” consists of whatever sounds good, feels good or smells good. You’d vote for Hitler or the prince of darkness – just as long as the politics that goes with the campaign lets you FEEL good. You are predictable, you offer damn little in the way of sound advice, and I sure would like to know if you get paid by the word or if you’re paid to submit a minimum number of words. What be the facts, Jack?
        By the way, Iran is nice this time of the year. Take off, hoser.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        During this recession, the Midwest has fared better than most of the country. Get your facts straight.

      • mizclay

        Glad you are back. Didnt GM repay the loan?

      • Flashy

        Nancy….ya think the Midwest has fared better during this recession because there is an auto industry? Perhaps ?

      • Doc Freeman

        Really this is for mirclay
        General Motors announced this week that it repaid its multibillion-dollar taxpayer-backed TARP loans. The day before the GM story broke, Neil Barofsky, the government TARP watchdog, testified before the Senate Finance Committee. He explained that GM did not use earnings to repay its TARP debt. The April quarterly report to Congress from his office stated: “The source of funds for these quarterly [debt] payments will be other TARP funds currently held in an escrow account.”
        GM filings with the SEC reveal that GM was paying 7 percent interest on a $6.7 billion TARP debt. The filings also confirm that the source of funds for GM’s debt repayments was a multibillion-dollar TARP-funded escrow account at Treasury; that means it was taxpayer money — not earnings.
        GM made no mention of what happened to the $2.5 billion loan GM owes its union health care plan. The union loan carries a 9 percent interest rate and runs until 2017. Don’t most Americans try to pay off their higher-interest debts first? Well, the union loan was not paid off. Why not? Does the union get to keep collecting 9 percent from GM until 2017, courtesy of the American taxpayer, while taxpayers give up a 7 percent return over the next five years in exchange for the hope that GM stock will be worth more than what we paid for it, someday down the road?
        One thing that they don’t point out here very stridently — of course, they had the money to do this. Where did they get some of the eight billion to pay back? They did it by jettisoning 65,000 jobs, and the pensions that go with them, so they fired 65,000 people, got rid of their pensions and they said that they are paying it back. They haven’t earned it. They’re cutting and it’s only because Obama owns the car companies along with the UAW that you can fire 65,000 union people.

      • Vigilant

        Flashy says, “There were no laws broken. The rules didn’t change.”

        I guess you’re not familiar with bankruptcy law. Moreover, the Feds have no business being in the bailout business.

        Wake up and gain a little understanding of the Constitutional limits on the federal government. Your disdain of the Constitution is showing.

      • RichE

        Flashy, if manufacturing goes will the Industrial Military Complex go too?

      • Art

        Your a god damn idiot. read the report A$$hole on your “business trip”. Any body that would invest $100 million in a company and later on have it worth $34 million is either a damn idiot or a obummer a$$licker you sure as hell don’t know zip about economics. Oh and by the way GM’s loan is still not paid off. The only people that made out in this deal is the unions, look what happened to the shareholders. Man your stupid, I’m glad you are not running my business.

  • John Laperuta

    Perhaps the Foo Fighters song Road to Ruin should become Obamas campaign anthem.

  • Brad

    so if we are missing 66 Billion from the total we gave to GM and he got in return 1 Billion in campaighn funds, spent 1 Billion on Volt, where is the other 64 Billion?? Do we get any change??? Or do we just Hope we get some Change????

    • Sirian

      Change?, oh that. . . the unions got the change and a sizable tip at the same time. Gratuities at their best – Obummer and his cronies.

    • Paul D.

      Hope in one hand, defecate in the other. Observe which hand fills up first. . .

      • nc

        Paul,dig in the hand you deficated in and you will find the george w. bush failed fiscal policy that started all of this! Right???

    • Vigilant

      GM still owes the taxpayers $25 billion.

      • Brad

        I read a few days ago it is actually closer to 40 Billion and they said they may not be able to ever pay that money back.

        • aladd

          Don’t forget that this “money that is owed is in the form of stocks that is owned by the government. So, government is holding on to the stock until they see fit to sell. GM can’t really say here’s your money. If people are wanting the most money back, maybe support GM and help raise the value of the stocks so the Government can get a better return on the investment. Don’t forget that the money GM got from Bush was from TARP which won’t be paid back, YES BUSH! The loans from Obama were paid back, and the stocks are yet to be sold.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Nobody mentions that they STOLE GM from the shareholders! They just stole it and gave it ti the unions.

      • eddie47d

        That isn’t totally true and if they had gone belly up investors would have gotten even less.

      • Vigilant

        I believe it was the bondholders who really got screwed.

  • bob jones

    The bailout was just a payoff to the unions, now Obama has given GM 25 billion to relocate much of the plant to Mexico, Brazil and China. That’s right, we paid for them to move their jobs out of the US, which is something these crooks have been doing for decades. They are not ignorant, just extremely corrupt and treasonous in their efforts to bring America down.

    • Flashy

      Errr…Bob, I believe you have it backwards. The latest round of contract negotiations has the one of the lowest increase in labor costs…and “… the UAW agreed to the lowest increase in labor costs in history. Wages have been reduced in America that GM and other companies are relocating production from Mexico and China to the US .. ” (source..National Economist)

      In other words…jobs are being shipped BACK HOME.

      Nice try…didn’t work.

      • http://yahoo catsueme

        Flashy, I guess you forgot about the 300 jobs GM located in mexico for building their green engine.

      • vicki

        Too bad flashy has no facts for his assertions. But then he never does. I did however poke my nose into his claim and did find that some companies ARE bringing jobs back to the US.

        Not because of liberals. Not because Obama walks on dollars. Because the labor costs in those countries now exceed our own. Sorta like Flashy hinted at but not because of labor union contracts. Because Americans are MUCH more efficient. As long as they are not union that is.

      • aladd

        Yes Flashy, you are right. I do wish these people would do a little research before they talk.

  • Warrior

    And lest we may add, they turned bankruptcy law on its ear. The usurper n’ chief’s job is to make sure everyone gets a “fair” shot albeit some like his supporters get a “fairer” shot than, well, you know the rest.

    And by the way, how dare that little grammar “scrool” kid criticize the “flexible evolving” winker. Obviously his parents require some added indoctrination. Frankly, after listening to his teachers attempt at mastering the English Language, one could say there should be a role reversal.

    • Andy

      Thank you, Warrior. I was afraid I was the only one to notice the teacher’s inability to speak proper English. I was absolutely appalled that she was being allowed to “teach” at the high school level, or at ANY level. Explains a lot about why the kids today are graduating without the mastery of any of the basics needed in the “real world”.

    • Brad

      Aint that the truth Warrior

    • Flashy

      Well…since y’all are saying you are a bankruptcy expert…just what facet of BK law was “turned on its ear”?

      Seems if it wasn’t allowed by law, it wouldn’t have been able to be done. But go ahead…tell us how it was ‘turned on its ear’ and how it got past court review,….Don’t forget, BK law is administrative law, so it has to be allowed on the books before it can be done.

      And pray tell…what did the shareholders and bondholders lose that they would have gained otherwise?

      This should be interesting….

  • larrygrant876

    Obama is now and always has been laser focused on “rewarding his friends and punishing his enemys”. His communist/socialist ideology is being implemented and he is a good commie, look around the world this is as good as it gets under dictaterships with communist leanings. Equal misery for all but a few. He has though forgotten to factor in the useful idiots go first part of the equasion.

  • Darien

    What the idiot Crystal fails to mention is that Toyota DID receive bailout money from the Japanese government.
    How about the fact that japanese cars made in USA, sans union, still cost the same or more than the equivalent Big 3 cars made in the USA?
    Another union busting scam and Crystal probabaly belongs to a group who DID NOT profit from the GM/Chrysler bailout, hence his bitterness.
    I suppose to him, its better to let all US owned businesses fail ad then be taken over by Chinese and foreign interests.
    What should have happened with the bailouts is the executives who ran the companies into the ground be fired, their pay for the time period they committed the crimes comfiscated and possibly being sent to jail. What also would you do to robbers?

    • momo

      “What should have happened with the bailouts is the executives who ran the companies into the ground be fired, their pay for the time period they committed the crimes comfiscated and possibly being sent to jail. What also would you do to robbers?”

      Under that metric Obama should be fired and imprisoned.

      • Vigilant

        Darling Darien doesn’t discern that firing the CEO would have had no effect on the state of things. It was clearly, unreservedly and indubitably the unions that did the company in. The exorbitant union pay and cushy pension benefits should have been “comfiscated [sic].”

    • kkflash

      Japan offered $5 billion in low-interest loans to its top exporters, and Toyota management was not going to pass up the access to cheap capital. Did they need the money? No. The $2 billion loan Toyota requested is less money than GM has lost every MONTH since we gave them $100 billion.

      You apparently can’t see the facts because of the 100% union-made blinders you’re wearing.

      • EAD

        Keep speaking the truth my friend!

    • kkflash

      Here’s another little factoid for you union brainiacs: GM currently employs about 202,000 people. Simple division of $100 billion by 202,000 jobs means the bailout cost $495,000 per job! In reality, letting GM fail wouldn’t have cost 202,000 jobs because GM’s competitors would have increased sales and production to make up the difference, and many of the GM workers would have found jobs with other companies. So, the cost per actual job “saved” is actually much higher than $495,000.

      That’s Obamanomics at its best: Taxpayers foot the bill so Obama can buy votes.

      • jopa

        KKflash;202,000 jobs just at GM itself , but there is also all the part suppliers dealerships, mechanics, transportation and the list goes on and runs into the millions of jobs saved and created. by the auto bailout.These are good jobs with great benefits and not the kind of jobs Romney created with Staples and Dominoes Pizza.Staples pays mostly minimum wage but managers can make around $25,000 a year with a lot of overtime.The auto bailout was a matter of saving real jobs where the worker can actually have some pride in what he does.

      • Flashy

        Jopa…i believe it’s a 10-1 multiplier effect in the auto industry. One direct job effects 10 others. It’s especially impactive when regionalized as the auto manufacturing is. Defense expenditures has the lowest multiplier effect at around 3-1. The Accelerator effect is also mongst the lowest in Defense industries and amongst the highest in auto. .

      • Brad

        UAW workers lost pride in their jobs and product back in the late 70′s and have not been a good product out of Detroit since. Once they started making the little midget cars from another failed Democratic answer to the energy crisis during guess who’s administration, Oblama’s uncle Jimmy and let’s not forget about his cousin Billy the maker of Billy Beer. I bet a case of that toilet water is worth much more now than a garage full of brand new zero mile 78 model GM short midget framed vehicles and Chrysler K Cars. Liberal IDIOTOS!!!!

      • eddie47d

        That makes Lee Iaccoca an idiot then. Hmmm!

    • Viet Nam Vet 67-68

      Darian your a Moron, the unions Bankrupted the Auto Industry always asking for more when the auto industry was obviously in decline. The Share holder’s should also have acted on the Board of Directors long before they also helped to bankrupt the Company. But, chapter 13 reorganization would have given GM and Chrysler a chance to get back on track and we wouldn’t have stolen the money from the bond holders who were propping up GM but Obamination wanted to install his Marxist idea’s and give property to the Unions that was against the Constitution and not his to give installing Fascism which the Italians banned forever from their Country. Like Mussilini, Obamination is stealing our wealth and giving to the Mafia Unions that are marching lock step with our new King Obamination. You are a Traitor to your Country and our Constitution. Go to Hell, SOON?

    • Brad

      Darien, Toyota cars built here in the US are not union employees and build a far better product than GM at pretty much the sames price you pay for union built vehicles at a 30 per hour more rate than Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mercedes Benz and BMW that are built right here in the good ole’ US of A. You don’t know what you are talking about. Ford has done great without the bailouts. GM and Chrysler should have filed BK under re-organization just as you or I should do if we are in the same perdicament. GM is now building all new Cadillacs in China. Hope that did not take on of your friends jobs you bias prick!!!

    • Proud to be a Believer

      What you say is absolutely untrue. My bother-in-law worked for Honda in Marysville Ohio. He didn’t have to belong to any Union as there were none even though previously he had to be a Union Member when he worked for the paper mill (Ohio is a very very heavy Union State) Unions are our problem, not the Construction Unions because they actually do something with their collection on the hourly wage, ie health and welfare (insurance), vacation pay (the part time employer doesn’t have to pay), holiday pay, and retirement all come out of their union dues as apposed to the UAW etc. My uncle owned a manufacturing facility in the early 1900′s in Indiana and always paid his workers way above union scale and told them that he had made plenty of money and if they voted in the Union, he would close the plant. They voted in the Union, and he closed the plant period. That is the way it should be. Don’t tell me the wages wouldn’t be as high without unions, I don’t want to hear it. If you want the best employees, you pay good wages and benefits period paragraph. The only thing a Union does is have people who are not superior. I worked all my live (am retired now) never for a Union, made top wages for a high school graduate white woman because I worked hard and knew my job and didn’t wait for handouts or seniority. I was my own seniority and when I left the job, they begged me to stay. Never did like being told what I could do and what I couldn’t that is the reason that if I fly now with the situation, I fly private as otherwise I would end up in jail!!!!

  • kkflash

    The GM “failout” was nothing more than a $100 billion campaign contribution by the taxpayers to Obama’s re-election efforts. The unions got the dough, the bondholders got screwed, and Obama gets all the UAW votes in return. At the rate they’re going, GM’s remaining $34 billion value should last past the 2012 election, but not much longer. Obama doesn’t care though, as long as he gets the union votes.

    • EAD

      Very good analysis. And in the process Obama and his controllers also get the side benefit of further bankrupting the nation.

  • aladd

    Better research a little more about the changes in the GM/UAW contracts! Kind of funny that you didn’t mention the vehicles that are selling the best, Equinox/Terrain, Cruze, Cadillac CTS, and don’t forget that Americans like their trucks. With the changes in the contracts, (newly hired workers at a lower wage $15 max $18, plus a lower benefit package, and no pension.) GM is able to build smaller cars, (Sonic), at a profit here in the U.S. Most of this article seems to be your opinion with not much research. Is GM/UAW perfect? No, however it isn’t nearly as bad as you lead on. As to the million jobs saved, He was talking about the other businesses that would have been effected if the automotive industry disappeared. Do you really want everyone to make $10 to $15 in this country? Oh, one more thing. The union didn’t/doesn’t have any input on car design or the quality of part from suppliers. That, mismanagement and pensions had a lot to do with GMs issues. DO YOUR RESEARCH!!

    • EAD

      The solution is free markets and no interference from the government. If GM is as good as you claim then let them make vehicles that people want. If they can compete in the free market let them…if not then let them go under. How stupid can one be to pay more for something that is of lesser quality?

      • aladd

        What are the best selling vehicle in the U.S.????? Let’s see TRUCKS!! Who builds the best trucks? Ford is #1, GM #2, Dodge #3. Look it up! I’m guessing that means that the want is there with the quality. Take a look at the quality lately, It is getting much closer on the car front. The problem with making a car that Americans want is easier said than done. What you might want might not be what I want. People live in differant areas don’t they! City dwellers might want a small car. While rural dwellers might want a truck or larger car. Then you have small families, and large families. So, you tell me what kind of vehicle do the people want?

      • aladd

        I don’t disagree with you about the open markets. So, that being said. It would be nice to have a level playing field. Importing products to the U.S. is much easier than exporting from the U.S. Other countries put extra taxes on importing products while we don’t. That just one reason that companies were/are moving operations out of the U.S.

    • http://yahoo catsueme

      your pay should reflect the sales. when the company does’nt make money pay should’nt go up for nobody. In fact upper magn. and laborers should suffer a cut. Cars made by union workers were a disgrace and tghat allowed the toyotos and others to come in. They had better quality control and enduraning product.

      • aladd

        True quality was a huge issue(not all the laborers fault, Corporate controlled the design and quality of parts), however it is getting much better. With the new contract they are very much tied into profits of GM. By the way, There hasn’t been any wage increase for at least the last 8 + years, for the laborers anyways. So, this thought that the laborers are getting raises or that they didn’t make consessions before the bankruptcy is false.

      • aladd

        Oh, if I remember correctly the Toyota imports are made by unionized labor. I know that the German improts are.

  • uvuvuv

    governor walker is accused of union busting and is facing a recall as a result. but you see many Recall Walker bumper stickers on toyotas. it’s almost like these people (sorry, the closest word i could think of) don’t understand that toyota is so virulently anti-union, if you discuss the civil war in the breakroom, mentioning the UNION forces, you will be reprimanded and warned. or even worse, maybe they do see the irony of their driving toyotas, but simply shrug it off. like those candlelight vigils for someone being executed, how many of them had come from abortion clinics earlier in the day?

    • EAD

      The simple fact is that liberals/socialists/communists pretend to want Government to subsidize everything with other people’s money but, they are just as shrewd when it comes to finding the cheapest deals. One of my co-workers who is a die hard Obama supporter is also the first one to shop on Amazon because they have the best deals. The preach collectivism but practice capitalism in their personal spending.

  • Steve E

    The best thing for all Americans to do is to always boycott company products that receive government bailouts. If everyone does this, bailouts will come to a halt in the future. Power to the People!

    • 45caliber

      Way back when (I think during Reagon’s time) the government bailed out the railroads and California and New York City. All three haven’t tried to recover since, depending upon more bailouts when and if necessary. Why should anyone else worry?

    • http://yahoo catsueme

      you’re right steve E after receiving our money GM sent 300 jobs to mexico. I’ll never buy a GM product

    • Steve E

      Boycotting GM is so easy to do and yet they can’t even do that. They rather be sheep.

      • RichE

        “The best thing for all Americans…”“ They rather be sheep.” I take it you’re not an American or sheep.

  • rb

    MIchigan is booming. Under a Republican governor General Motors has continued to actually open closed manufacturing facilities once more and gainfully employ numerous people in not only auto manufacturing factories but industries that support these factories. Detroit is making a comeback. Tech jobs are the number one hire in the area. All automobile related. At what cost? Hmm. Tax breaks for GM and Ford have cost local municipalities tens of thousands of dollars in revenue but the new empoyees have increased tax revenue. We actually have a labor shortage in some areas because so many people have left Michigan seeking employment elsewhere. Are they coming back now? No…it’s still a one industry state where the big boys choose winners and losers. Once again Michigan is staking its very future on an industry that left this state in a shambles when the going got tough and will do it again in a heartbeat. The governor is also asking for tax increases because he gave out too much to the auto industry. Gasoline tax and income tax. Kind of a reverse Robin Hood affect I guess.
    Oh and by the way does anyone know which car is still the MOST American built and manufactured car in the United States? It’s the Toyota Camry.

  • sabulaman

    Ford Motor Co. products. That’s what you should own.

    • Bert Cundle Sr.

      My Loyality to Ford is Obvious… Love the Old ones & New ones! My only Complaint with Ford is: Take Leadership in the Plug – Ins ! ! ! Or Wind – Ups… Or Solar Powered!!!

  • UnrepentantCurmudgeon

    Obama is the most aggressive venture capitalist around. Except … he “ventures” with taxpayer money, and never shows a profit. No wonder he hates Romney; one would think he’d be calling Mitt for some pointers.

    • 45caliber

      Look at it this way: If he loses, he hasn’t lost anything of his own. If he wins, then he gets all the credit. No loss, possible gain.

  • Pete0097

    GM and Chrysler should have gone to bankruptcy. THere, they could have had the union contracts re-written for an equable balance between workers and management. They also could have protected the shareholders (which include many 401K plans and IRA’s) instead of throwing them under the bus. We would have had better car companies come out of it instead of Fiat owning/managing Chrysler and GM just making the same junk they always have.

  • 45caliber


    You need to get your facts straight. I saw on another thread here today that Bush was the one who bailed out the auto companies. Just ask Norm! He has all the “facts”.

  • Buck

    Obamass has convinced me to NEVER buy any product produced by American union labor if I can possibly find it produced by a non-union entity . I WILL NEVER BUY AMERICAN UNION AGAIN !!! PS . Richard Trumka and all the other criminal communist union leaders played a huge part in this decision as well .

  • RichE

    Please name the poster(s) who are always correct.

  • Jay

    Well here’s an interesting article folks, from “The Standard”, sunday edition dated: Sunday, June 27, 2004.

    Does anyone note anything interesting about the article? Obama’s origin of birth is given as a matter of fact!

    Kenyan-born Obama all set for US Senate

    Kenyan-born US Senate hopeful, Barrack Obama, appeared set to take over the Illinois Senate seat after his main rival, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race on Friday night amid a furor over lurid sex club allegations.

    The allegations that horrified fellow Republicans and caused his once-promising candidacy to implode in four short days have given Obama a clear lead as Republicans struggled to fetch an alternative.

    Ryan’s campaign began to crumble on Monday following the release of embarrassing records from his divorce. In the records, his ex-wife, Boston Public actress Jeri Ryan, said her former husband took her to kinky sex clubs in Paris, New York and New Orleans.

    Barrack Obama:
    “It’s clear to me that a vigorous debate on the issues most likely could not take place if I remain in the race,” Ryan, 44, said in a statement. “What would take place, rather, is a brutal, scorched-earth campaign – the kind of campaign that has turned off so many voters, the kind of politics I refuse to play.”

    Although Ryan disputed the allegations, saying he and his wife went to one ‘avant-garde’ club in Paris and left because they felt uncomfortable, lashed out at the media and said it was “truly outrageous” that the Chicago Tribune got a judge to unseal the records.

    The Republican choice will become an instant underdog in the campaign for the seat of retiring Republican Senator Peter Fitzgerald, since Obama held a wide lead even before the scandal broke.

    “I feel for him actually,” Obama told a Chicago TV station. “What he’s gone through over the last three days I think is something you wouldn’t wish on anybody.”

    The Republican state committee must now choose a replacement for Ryan, who had won in the primaries against seven contenders. Its task is complicated by the fact that Obama holds a comfortable lead in the polls and is widely regarded as a rising Democratic star.

    The chairwoman of the Illinois Republican Party, Judy Topinka, said at a news conference, after Ryan withdrew, that Republicans would probably take several weeks to settle on a new candidate.

    “Obviously, this is a bad week for our party and our state,” she said.

    As recently as Thursday, spokesmen for the Ryan campaign still insisted that Ryan
    would remain in the race. Ryan had defended himself saying, “There’s no breaking of any laws.

    There’s no breaking of any marriage laws. There’s no breaking of the Ten Commandments anywhere.” Copyright © 2004 . The Standard Ltd

    • RichE

      What’s your point?

      • Jay

        Isn’t it obvious RE? Here’s a newspaper article dated 2004, which makes the casual, matter of fact claim, that obama was born in Kenya!

        • RichE

          Oh birther stuff. What is the birther’s definition for Natural Born Citizen?
          Do you think Einstein was a natural born physicist?

      • Jay

        RichE says: Do you think Einstein was a natural born physicist?

        Just when i start thinking you might have some grey matter between your ears, RichE, you come up with this boner of a question? Do you really feel that comfortable playing the “village idiot”?

        • RichE

          Letter of the law verses intent of the law. I may be a bit more worldly than you.

          If you were a founding father who would you want to be president? How would you insure the survival of the American dream? Do you truly think 35, both parents U.S. Citizens at time of birth and child born within the U.S. is the answer? Who is the village idiot? BTW, village idiots vote.

  • aladd

    It is worth mentioning that those contracts drove GM’s manufacturing costs-per-hour to nearly $30 higher than Toyota Motor Corp.’s.

    Sorry to burst your exageration. While the cost were higher. It was more like a $21 diff. IN 2008. Now I’m sure it is much closer, if not even, after the bankruptcy and the new contract. Retirees health care off the shoulders of GM and lower wages, benefits, and no penions for new hires starting in 2008, or 09. It’s called research Mr. Crystal.

  • Silas Longshot

    What happened in Detroit can and will happen from sea to shining sea if he’s reelected. Florida will be a little more difficult for him this time, because they’re weeding out some 55, 000 zombie voters (democrats all, apparently) who may not get to vote this time. However, that many and more are still voting in EACH no ID state out there. And Holder will go after any state that tries to improve voting integrity by daring to try and pass voter ID laws.
    Get ready for the worst. Click the name.

  • Wilson

    Manufacturing (and the middle class) will never return to the United States unless we return to the American System of Economy. The nation was built on protectionism. Tariffs increase the demand for labor, and they actually increase both domestic production and imports. Henry Charles Carey wrote an entire book on the subject, called “The Harmony of Interests”, but you are not likely to learn of this in college. Free trade serves only to enrich a small minority of people. Protectionism creates a harmony between the classes. The true American System is superior to Communism, Fascism, and all forms of British economic liberalism.

  • Sumner Thompson

    All of your remarks are interesting but one must surf through them in order to hopefully find some useful information. What I see mostly is venting and calling one another names. Sure, there is some truth but you throw in so much muck again, where is the real truth, not notions. Someone said buy Ford and that is exactly what I have been doing for some time now. To throw in a little confusion I think that “someone” is going to get stuck with the likes of Volt, but maybe the government will buy them up using taxpayer money, if they haven’t already. SIGNED – Down East Maine


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