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The Republicans’ Dangerous Makeover

March 22, 2013 by  

The Republicans’ Dangerous Makeover
SPECIAL

The Republican National Committee, under the leadership of Chairman Reince Priebus, said the party must change if it ever hopes to win the White House again.

So it issued a 97-page report that describes the GOP as “out of touch,” “narrow minded,” and the party of “stuffy old men.” (Those are some of the quotations in the report from focus groups the committee held.)

“Public perception of the Party is at record lows,” the report said. “Young voters are increasingly rolling their eyes at what the Party represents, and many minorities wrongly think that Republicans do not like them or want them in the country. When someone rolls their eyes at us, they are not likely to open their ears to us.”

Unless something changes, the report indicated, “It will be increasingly difficult for Republicans to win another presidential election in the near future.” So what should be done?

If the GOP is to become more relevant to today’s voters, the report insisted, it must “be inclusive and welcoming” on social issues. Plus, it needs to embrace “comprehensive immigration reform,” a code phrase that usually means providing illegal aliens with a path to U.S. citizenship.

Oh, and it’s important for Republican policy makers to realize that voters who are struggling to make ends meet in this economy “do not care if the help comes from the private sector or the government — they just want help.”

Do they think that’s the sort of message that will have millions of voters rushing to support Republicans next time around? Who are they kidding?

It sounds to me as though they’ve been watching too many Democratic commercials. What else can you think when the report offers conclusions like this: “The perception that the GOP does not care about people is doing great harm to the Party and its candidates on the federal level, especially in presidential years. It is a major deficiency that must be addressed.”

It was no surprise that Democratic activists loved the resulting publicity. Jesse Ferguson, communications director of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, said the report is “a total indictment of the Republican agenda in Congress.”

The report is a result of something called the Growth and Opportunity Project of the RNC. We’re told there were thousands of interviews and more than 50 focus groups, led by a team that included former George W. Bush White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, RNC National Committeeman from Mississippi Henry Barbour and Jeb Bush adviser Sally Bradshaw from Florida.

To make the Republican Party “more relevant,” RNC chairman Priebus wants to spend $10 million to reach out to black, Hispanic and Asian communities. Here’s how he described this part of his plan:

“It will include hundreds of people — paid — across the country, from coast-to-coast, in Hispanic, African American, Asian communities, talking about our party, talking about our brand, talking about what we believe in, going to community events, going to swearing-in ceremonies, being a part of the community on an ongoing basis, paid for by the Republican National Committee, to make the case for our party and our candidates.”

I have no doubt that having real live human beings reaching out one-on-one will be a lot better than pouring millions more dollars into television commercials no one wants or watches. But wouldn’t it make more sense to put most of that effort into areas where a substantial number of people agree with your core principles?

Oops, sorry. “Core principles” are something the Beltway consultants want to ignore, not play up.

Before Republicans make such drastic changes in how they deliver their message, I hope they’ll consider a few important points.

First, remember that they won resounding victories in the House of Representatives three years ago — the biggest gains in more than 75 years. And they held that majority through last year’s elections. Yes, the Democrats got Obama re-elected (with fewer votes and by a much smaller margin than most people realize). And they made some gains in the House and Senate.

But there are plenty of reasons to be more optimistic about next year. For one thing, the Democrats have more to lose. There are 22 Democratic Senate seats that will be decided in 2014, compared to 14 now held by Republicans.

And be aware that seven of those Senate seats now in Democratic hands are in states that Obama lost last year. In fact, his average vote in those States was a dismal 41 percent.

Already, four incumbent Democratic Senators have announced that they are retiring next year. I’d be willing to bet that there will be several more who decide to hang up their hats rather than run in a race they are likely to lose.

Yes, I’m aware that the Democrats have made all sorts of noise about how they’ll not only keep control of the Senate next year, but they will also regain control of the House. I don’t buy it for a second — if the Republicans will field candidates who stick to the message that brought them victories in the past two campaigns.

I’m talking about winning candidates such as Rand Paul in Kentucky, Marco Rubio in Florida, Mike Lee in Utah, Ted Cruz in Texas and the dozens of tough-minded conservatives who swept to victory in the House. Plus, let’s not forget that Republicans won governorships in 30 states.

My point is that the right message will resonate with a majority of voters. Oh, maybe not in New York City or in the People’s Republic of California (with a handful of exceptions).

But in area after area and State after State, a message of curbing government growth, eliminating trillion-dollar deficits, stopping wasteful government spending and living within our means has proven that it will appeal to most voters most of the time.

Rather than soft-peddle their beliefs, Republicans must point out that in the past 10 years, Federal spending has increased a whopping 89 percent. Meanwhile, the median wealth in this country has dropped 23 percent. And the median household income has fallen 5 percent. In other words, as Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) recently pointed out: “While families have been doing more with less, government has been doing less with more.”

That’s a message the average voter can relate to. And as candidates like Paul, Rubio and Cruz have demonstrated, when voters understand the message, they’ll elect the messenger.

Let’s hope we see more like them running for office next year.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • Jeremy Leochner

    Its a tricky position the Republicans are in. How to respond to the political realities without compromising their stated values and the promises they have made in the past. How to better appeal to a broader range of Americans without seeming to pander to them. I am a registered independent. This has been my observation of the Republican party. After Bush left the republican party became bitterly divided between its moderate factions and its more ultra conservative and libertarian factions. It became conflicted as to how to respond to Obama. What happened was the republican party became so confused that they choose for their presidential nominee a candidate many had once denounced as the opposite of what a good republican was. And it didn’t help that the candidate in question came across as a mixture of Thurston Howell and Gordon Gecko. They tried to spice up the ticket with a “policy wonk” and a young go getter. But he proved to be more full of bluster than actual policy proposals. I apologize for rudness but this is my view of these candidates. As a result to most Americans the slogan of the republican party seemed to be “We believe in America, but we hate almost everyone in it”. Its not easy to gain support when you effectively accuse more than half the country of being “takers, not makers”.

    For me what the republican party needs to do is to ditch this philosophy they seemed to have developed which simplifies problems into strict black and white terms. That a person who recieves help from the government is automatically a parasite. Or that the only choices are deportation for illegal aliens or amnesty for illegal aliens. That if one is a liberal or a democrat one is an enemy. If they were to try and find a more moderate and balanced approach to the issues I believe they would achieve greater appeal. And if the deomocrates are as unreasonable as the republicans often say they are perhaps they can set the example and be the bigger person.

    • Doc Sarvis

      I agree with you for the most part. My thoughts on how the GOP could build itself up would be for them to focus on fiscally reasonable positions (not fiscally conservative and not “liberal”) while laying WAY off of the social issues like gay marriage and immigration reform.

      It is easy to poke at the GOP’s new plan but with America’s demographics as they are-and will quickly become, the GOP needs to act NOW or fall WAY behind.

      One side note; while not using this term, I loved the GOP plan to reach out one on one with people. Sounds like they are promoting community organizers.

    • bayhorse

      You need to open your eyes, most of the ones getting hand outs don’t want to work, why should they they get everything from the government, and then they breed. It is NOT a black or white thing. It is a generation of why should I work the government will provide. Give illegals amnesty, NOT, my grandparents came across from Europe, and they had to work for everything they had. Get your head out of your a**, and take a good look a what is around….People who do work are clinging precariously to what they have to pay for those that won’t.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Bayhorse

        Paul Ryan once received a “government handout”. I didn’t make him lazy or not want to work. This is the assumption. Why is it that if you take something from the government and you are poor you are suddenly a moocher. I love watching people on pundit shows who are financially secure and with good jobs talking about how lazy people are on welfare. Try being in a position where you need it. People on welfare aren’t living the high life. They are barely scrapping by. Honestly. Who in the right mind is going to consider it a cushy life to live off government hand outs. To me that’s like saying I can live the good life by basing my diet on what the local soup kitchen is giving out. Okay I sort of have guaranteed food. But I am not going to stop looking for a job so I can live off the soup kitchen. It is my belief that most people who apply for and are on either welfare or some sort of other government assistance need it. When you say things like “most of the ones getting hand outs don’t want to work, why should they they get everything from the government, and then they breed” you are disparaging and begrudging not just those who pretend to need help. You are also attacking those who do.

        As for illegal aliens. Offering them a choice between deportation and getting in the back of the line of an office to gain citizenship papers or work visas is not equal to “amnesty”. Letting someone get in line to get a drivers license is not the same as handing out a license. And as for our grand parents. Countless ones came in and were condemned as invaders whether they were legal or not. And the fact is that many of these illegals are guilty only of being naive enough to believe in the American dream.

    • Jimmy the Greek

      That’s right we need to buck up we can never deport all them wets ! however we could poison them , or even have a open season and let the rednecks hunt them down , or better yet , We could tell the coonasses in south louisiana that they are good eating but out of season , then they would become a endangered spices in two years ,LOL

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

        Jimmy, you are not helping. Please tone it down!

      • deerinwater

        Agree Jay ~ no help what so ever!

      • Doc Sarvis

        Haters gonna Hate!

  • Harold Olsen

    After the November election, the party put out a statement which, basically, stated they were going to start emulating the Democrats in an effort to win elections. Doing things like playing Santa Clause and giving things away as the Dems do. The GOP used to be the party of ideas. These days they stand for nothing and are totally clueless. All they want to do is copy what the opposition does and cave to them. They are useless. I’m glad I quit them. I won’t have anything to do with either party. Both are useless and care nothing about the American people or the country. All they care about is power and keeping it. We have no leadership in Washington. The American people are on their own.

  • http://www.booksbyoliver.com OhioRiver

    97-pages could have been reduced to just 1 page. Have principles, honesty & allow all Americans to participate in the Republican Pary of the conservatives.

    • deerinwater

      and the honesty today is in short supply.

  • Warrior

    Well, at least the repub gov’s are attempting to “right their ships”. ILL-annoy, under “progressive” rule is an absolute disaster. Day by day, more people are looking to get out. ILL-annoy, Calif, NY all prime examples of what a “gubmint” run economy looks like. The only “rule of law” is “law by the rulers”. Sickening, absolutely sickening.

    • Doc Sarvis

      Gov. Christie of NJ is the new model for the GOP. A moderate, not unlike President Obama.

      • Jimmy the Greek

        We need that fat boy like we need a dose of VD .

      • alpha-lemming

        a.k.a….. NO choice for the citizenry. “Do you want us to take 63% or 66% of everything you own for redistribution”???

      • STEVE E.

        If Christie becomes the Repub candidate, the Repubs will loose again like they did with McCain and Romney. But I do expect the Repubs to pick him or some RINO like him. Then they will loose. They will never learn.

        • Bob666

          Steve,
          I beg to differ with you on Chris Christie. I believe that he has the best chance of getting the mainstream vote over any of the new wiz-kids in the GOP.

          The GOP will vote for anyone who is NOT a democrat.

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            Bob say; “The GOP will vote for anyone who is NOT a democrat.”

            an why I say ~ It was McCain’s to lose ~ and he did! ~ If he’d told his GOP “handlers” like Karl Rowe ~ to kiss his foot ~ and too take a hike. ~ been his own man ~ warps and all ~ what would the GOP or GOP voters done? ~ Voted for Obama? ~~ I think not!

            McCain had the Presidency in his grasp ~ and listen to the wrong people. ~ and today this behind the scenes force is still hard at work ~ making it impossible to win elections.

            They have taken the wealthy mans money and compromise their national integrity to the will of the people in the process.

          • macgyver1948

            Deerinwater… I would agree for the most part that GOP supporters will vote for just about anyone who is not a Dem. Thank God the GOP voters were not in a majority these past two prez elections. I would vote for a GOP guy if he/she was better than the Dem guy. I haven’t seen that in a very long time. If you hate Obama then you can tell to some extent what I think about Romney and the last GOP candidate before the mitt.

            By the way, if McCain’ had told his handlers to “kiss his foot” he would have gotten so much less support then he did. I agree the Karl Rowe and the Koch Klans and the Norquists are a huge problem for democracy and the non affluent but McCain needed them much as Romney did. It is a good thing Romney lost because I am not sure who would really be in charge of the Oval Office but it definitely would not be Romney. If you remember Norquist said “Romney would do as he is told” referring to when he gets elected.

            Deer, what do you mean when you say “They have taken the wealthy mans money and compromise their national integrity to the will of the people in the process”? To whose will but the people’s should the compromises be made? There is no integrity when these guys sell it to the highest bidding investors such as the Karl Rowes and the Koch Klans and the Norquists. I think I know what you mean but it is just how you word it that confuses me. If I am right about what you mean I agree with you, they are sellouts.

          • tony newbill

            by proxy when bush/obama bailed out out the private sector free market economy they created a collective society out of us and we have yet to be formally introduced to this fundamental transformation .

          • macgyver1948

            tony newbill… Obama didn’t create it, it came nicely before him, but he is continuing it. I remember when NAFTA was first introduced, and that kind of thing before it, I wondered how is this going to help us? I could see it would help the big corporations but I saw in my hypothetical crystal ball that some how jobs will be affected and so will other areas. It will remain with us unless enough of us demand that Congress do away with the ill causes. I also saw in my hypothetical crystal ball if Romney some how won he too would continue it because that is what the corporations want. Romney would be told how to do his job.

            As much as I do not like and have no respect for little bush it began before him. For example “The impetus for NAFTA actually began with President Ronald Reagan”. See more at http://useconomy.about.com/od/tradepolicy/p/NAFTA_History.htm

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            This is true Tony ~ The American people were introduced to the notion that an “Economic collapse” was eminent and would reach Global Scale in short order if these finical institutions were allowed to fail. The sells job implies that it would be severe and long lasting and epic in proportion. ~ (The old stitch in time saves 9, story)

            First 43 and then 44 to follow in short order. ~ Myself , I feel that it was over sold, while it was not my call to make.

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            cgyver1948 says; “By the way, if McCain’ had told his handlers to “kiss his foot” he would have gotten so much less support then he did. ”

            I ask, In support you are talking about blocks of money under the control of the GOP ?

            Well, ~ maybe ~, but Think about it for a minute. ~ McCain was their only candidate, he was the GOP nominee . ~

            That was leverage that McCain failed to use well. ~ The Maverick, chose to played the “Go along to Get along ” games. ~ where as if he was actually planing on “Cleaning House” as both him and Ms. Palin were claiming, a campaign promised made to Americans ~ it was a perfect place to start!

            Do you really believe that GOP voters would abandon their selected candidate and withhold their dollars , willing to concede the election to the Democrats?

            Sure ~ maybe some would ~ but I can’t help but believe ~ McCain would have came out better for it. The GOP would not bein the mess that we find it in day. ~ Between failing to launch a internal coup at a most delicate time and his VP choice, McCain sunk his own battleship. ~ There was little talk about big government or deficits or spending back then.

            McCain campaign kicked off with Karl Rowe tell all of us that this campaign would be about “Character” ~~~~ Well, ~ for once he was right I suppose but I don’t think that it turned out as he planed.

            It would be good for the GOP to learn to operate a general campaign without need of flooding the field awash with money by special interest groups representing corporate management. ~

            I would not begin to suggest that I know how much private citizens gave to the GOP or the RNC. ~ I only know what I gave through out the year. My total contributions was only 300 dollars ~ but if 1/3 of American voters gave just 200 dollars ~ that should be more then enough money to sponsor a robust general election.

            I might have voted for Mc Cain if he’d handled his opportunities differently. In so doing he showed me the kind of President he would be. A capricious and dangers one that could not sell his vision well or mount the support to make his visions come true.

            Sell me on the ideas and the worth in annexing IraQ for 25 years. ~ what is the the long term gains of such a move? Is there a better way to do it? ~ The Russian Bear will resist this you know?

            To hell with the locals, ~ the Russian didn’t really like us being in Iran in 1942 as we attempted to secure shipment of much needed supply across Iran to their western front, even if it was to aid them with their fight against a German invasion. They will not like us there in Iraq in 2030.

          • macgyver1948

            Deer… I supported the Dems as much as I could. We each do what we can if we want to.

            The Russians were dubious (being extremely polite sing that word) of Iran During WW2 just as we should always be. Iran has always been a kind of terrorists nation going all the way back through their Persia existence. Iran and Hitler were buddies mainly because they are the same kind of people, they had a lot of evil in common.

            There are loads of “blocks of Money” controlling the GOP and when you add secrecy in the donating you have more than control, you have ownership and us not knowing who in Congress sold out for that support.

            I feel the splitting in the GOP has a lot to do with Tea and what they do. You may not agree but I see Tea as the negative factor for any kind of free government and there is a growing nature in the GOP who are opting for conscience and in that Tea does not like because they see their loss of control. We all gain as that loss grows. There are other reasons for the GOP splitting but much of that has to do with failing candidates. Too many supported McCain and he was a sloppy but smarter little bush with more wolf in him. I will always believe we would have had a more aggressive war mongering tax support for the wealthy and not us with McCain so it was very good that he lost. The Republicans ain’t the Party of Lincoln and I think Lincoln would be embarrassed with this pledge signing and soul selling bunch.

            So much more money was spent on Romney and they just knew Mitt was winning, a sure bet kind of thing. Very disappointing for the big investors. I am so glad Mitt lost for a lot of reasons too and religion, not his being Mormon, I am fine with that unless he gave into what he was told by his elders as President. He and other Mormons did some very immoral things toward Jews in his past and he played it down as though it didn’t matter when he was asked during this campaign. He was so controlled by wealthy factors and pledges so that too made me glad he lost.

            Big money makes the political world go ’round but it screws us to the wall so badly especially when it is hushed. The Founders so often warned us about Corporate as well as any source of big money in Government and we still haven’t learned from them on that. Our Government is a public entity and if the funds to sponsor campaigns are a secret it is no longer our Government, instead it belongs to who invests the most money. Who might that be if we do not know who invested? Damn I hate Citizens United.

          • Bob666

            Yo Deer,
            McCain lost in 2008 for two reasons. First, there was a genuine burn out from eight years of “W” and two wars that were not properly executed. Kind of like Ford losing in part because of Nixon and Watergate.

            What finished him off was the selection of a pin headed bimbo from Alaska with the IQ of a cumquat. I liked McCain, but the Cumquat scared the hell out of me.

            People were ready for a change and Obama promised change. That is why McCain lost. While Obama is not my favorite president by a stretch, He is not a pin head cumquat.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… “pin head cumquat”? You are so kind to that nut job, so respectful… lol

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            I am trying to be a more kind and gentle Bob666, I might even consider going to 333.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… So, half you is kinder and more gentle… I thought you were ok as the full you but I am leaning Liberal so what do I know? LOL…

          • Bob666

            YO Mac,
            ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Bob666,

            You write: “McCain lost in 2008 for two reasons.” McCain lost for one reason and one only. He wasn’t/isn’t conservative. He was/is a statist. He reminded conservatives of this with his bungling and stupidity during the 2008 collapse.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Bob666

            Yo Bob,
            You made a valid point regarding his “reaction” to the financial meltdown and that may have ultimately cost him the election. I personally believe that Palin as VP was far more damaging. The choice of Palin and his “inaction” during the meltdown did not leave many people with great comfort in his decision making skills.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob Livingston… We all seem to have such nice things to say about McCain. It really is a good thing he lost…

          • Jeff

            Do you think the wingnuts will give Obama any credit for patching things up between Israel and Turkey or will Sean and Glenn find sinister motives there as well?

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            No, that will never happen unless the money is right of course. For the right price they would both be communist.

        • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

          I strongly disagree with you about Chris Christy Steve. He might not be as far right as you would like ~ but that part of the GOP’s current problem with appealing to enough voters to win National elections today. They are seen as too far to the right with their posture and rhetoric. This unified party front of resistance to all things offered by opposition ~ is not helping but hurting the GOP. ~ As the American people all know that the GOP does in no ways have the market cornered on “good ideas” ~ While the GOP insist that they do!

          Mich McConnell’s strategy crafted in 2010 to “make” 44 a single term President failed! ~ To continue this strategy to 2016 will also fail ~ regardless how far the GOP manages to raise the “suffer factor” in the attempt to – to appeal to the American voters “wallet” ~ It will not be Obama that most voters will be angry with, in-spite of your own perception and the perception of your many like minded friend. ~ with the greatest of respect, ~ your perception is faulty. The evidence before you should validate this accretion as being accurate and true. ~ Too much time spent singing to the choir and too little time singing to the congregation has created this false perception.

          That, ~ coupled with a common perception in the court of public of the GOP being dishonest and disingenuous in nature has placed the GOP in a distressed position.

          Christ Christy has crafted an endearing image on the American people, of being a “What you see is what you get” sort of person and a “hands on” administrator, willing to step forward and make a “hard call” even if it hair-lips the devil. Willing to be crass and rough like street fighter in a “matter of fact” way. Any popularity contest seen coming second to the job that he has been entrusted with.

          We moderates see in him a man of character and substance and willing to place the welfare of the people he has been elected to represent above party affiliation.

          He says what he means and means what he says ~~ We admire that quality in a candidate for public office regardless of political affiliation.

          He does not care is you don’t approve of a large man, ~ and hold no plans of going to bed with you anyway. If the gravitational pull is too strong for you ~ step back away. If he’s blocking your sunshine and placing you in the shade, ~ step away.

          Mich McConnell is who you need to examine for possible extraction or at least some down sizing.

      • tony newbill

        Steves right christy will lose to hilary , and then God help us all .

        • macgyver1948

          tony newbill… Isn’t that what many Obama haters said during the first Obama election and more so during the second, “God help us all”. We do not have the many dooms day predictions from many on the Right with Obama such as national Martial Law and total economic collapse. Actually we are improving nicely, slowly but in an ok way, but hate keeps them in denial of our progress as well as being told to stay in denial.

          • tony newbill

            Macgyver1947 seriously recovering nicely ??? Are you aware of what has been pumping up the so called recovery ?? It sure isn’t being driven by Consumer Spending that would be the tell tale signs of a true supply-side recovery that will not end in a Credit Driven Bubble again . See my friend the Bubble thats NOW FORMING is the left over debt that was being held by the private sector financial system thats been transferred over to the Governments and what we see in Europe with the volleying of ECB and Nation debt being volleyed back and forth with the Main International banking firm called the Federal Reserve , injecting more debt off the taxpayers in the USA like we see in the PIGGS and Cyprus the past 3 years is getting ready to domino into the Financial sectors of the USA again . They are in a Currency war with the BRIC nations right now and have been since the 2008 crash , and the Goal of the BRICs is to divide the Eurozone away from the Dollar and the Federal Is trying to flood the Western nations and most of the Middle east with dollars in an attempt to with GREED keep these nations using dollars over the Yuan but in the end it will not work because the Durable suppliers that make up Asian nations hold the Means to sustain Life that being a Way to manufacture Life Giving products and resource production and together this substance that is being traded and settled in dollars is about to take a major Shift in the way these trades are settled . Once this fracture in the Trade settlement happens with the rejection of the dollar coming out of the WTO look out as all Bond holders dump dollars and head for the Commodities backed Yuan bond market . This will be the Wiemar event on the dollar valued markets here in the USA and what will finalize the collapse of the dollar and the dollar backed euro and divide the Eurozone away from the USA as the BRIC comes in and Backstops the Euro instead of the dollar being that medium of exchange which has been the case since WW2 .

            You will see what unfolds in Cyprus by Monday have a ripple effect on continuation of dollar acceptance very soon and I would get ready to see this hit the USA in a Hyper Inflating way , and as Close as Profit margins are in our Domestic markets , it will cause Obama to have to Nationalize market sectors , the Liberals Wet Dream of the Century !!!!

          • macgyver1948

            tony newbill …Consumer spending is up a bit but that happens as things improve and more people are working. I do not give Obama all the credit but all politicians look to take credit when things get better and try to avoid blame, even if it is their fault, when they can.

            Another bubble? Bubbles are general a after math of left over something. Well, they come and they go. We knew there would be some slide coming soon but I have hope for the long run. It is still more jobs here that we need, and the new job number is growing each month, to be created and only the Execs can control that, not politicians who can only talk incentives, and it seems so many of the big corporation execs are Republican. By the way, even with the big tax breaks the execs will not create jobs unless they want to so any form of Trickle Down or “we need to tax the wealthy less not more” is BS in terms of job creation. People need decent livable wages to feed consumer spending and so many jobs for hourly workers are not so much livable.

            You say “injecting more debt off the taxpayers in the USA like we see in the PIGGS and Cyprus the past 3 years is getting ready to domino into the Financial sectors of the USA again “. We will see but it too sounds like more Right gloom and doom stuff and they have to put the other side, even with BS, to show why they should be the ones who are elected next time. In these past few decades the Right seems to be so much more creative with the BS about how bad the Left is.

            You speak of “durable suppliers in Asia” that will affect us… We need to bring back manufacturing or those durable suppliers will always affect us. We need to make the US manufactures feel it is less profitable, and less tax incentive, to remain over seas or why should they come back here to create jobs and build in the US? The main reasons for our manufacturing jobs and other things going over seas is because our damn politicians who owe the corporations pay back gave them the huge incentive to move their operations over seas. That has to change or we will be controlled by over seas process and we will have fewer jobs here in the future and lower paying jobs just so the execs can lower their expenses all with loads of help from their politicians. Guess which party is so much more in business for the benefit and protection of the Corporations than the other.

            Guess which party signs no-way-out pledges to do what they are told in favor of the wealthy and the big corporations for promises of more campaign pledges and even election wins. These are the main reason why we have the bubbles and the hyper inflations as you speak of. There are other natural fluctuating economic reasons but we can live with those if we weren’t being betrayed by the so-called elected and appointed representatives in favor of who is buying them. All parties will do this to some extent because they all need big money but one big party is so bought it is killing us.

            I can remember a quote from years ago but I wish I could remember who said it. It went something like “Nothing really gets done in this country without Congress making it happen”. There are many big corporations operating in the black but yet they do not spend on the expense known as payroll as they could. They receive many incentives from Congress, in the form of tax breaks, and they do not act for our nation’s benefit. Instead they act for what is best for the corporation’s benefit. What good does it do to go on giving them more tax breaks , as well as incentives to continue their prosperous growth over seas, if they do not use those breaks to help the country?

            I too do not like more printed money with less value because history shows this flat or fiat money is harmful to a nations survival. It may be one of the reasons that brought Rome down. Investors may just be opting for the, as you say, “Commodities backed Yuan bond market” but people are running concerned with how things have been politically motivated here. Our money will shrink in value as more monopoly money is printed and countries like China, who are buying up as much of the worlds gold, will have more control. There are many reasons why we are so screwed up here but we still have ways to improve and I choose not to look at the dark side as much as the Right does and it all started so long ago and not with Obama although the Right wants to blame Obama and Liberals in general for all our woes since the Civil War.

            Please remember so may of our recent woes came from the little bush era and are still with us, like the little war monger bush’s, and his Tonto, war debt for example. Tell me again why we invaded Iraq and did we gain more than we lost? That is just one example but many of our problems go back long before little bush along with the economic problems his adim gave us and flowed into the Obama Admin. Many of our problems are due to the Rights “Wet Dream(s) of the Century”, your wording, starting in the last century, not just the Libs. How much more BS will the Right come up with about Obama?

            P.S. One of the controlling huge money people said during this last presidential campaign “I want the US budget (and I believe he included the tax structure along with it) to go back to the beginning of the century”. Considering what he is about he very much meant the beginning of the 20th century and not the current one. If he and his billionaire buddies working for the benefit and the corporations, with their very tight control over more than 270 Congressional GOPers, gets this very needed programs, such as Social Security and Medicare, will starve out of existence, which is what the GOP want anyway. His quote on this was also “ want the budget to be the size that would fin in a bath tub”. Question for you Tony. Can even you see how this country can NOT operate on a budget similar in size to that before WW1? This is what your TP controlled GOP is about. That and allowing Corporations to operate without any regulations, needed or not, so they can lower their expenses and grow as they choose. Keep in mind eliminating minimum wage is also a goal of theirs so who will win other than the Corporations and the very wealthy if your side gets their ways? It very much ain’t gonna be the non affluent. Are you of the very affluent for you to be supporting your side? “It Ain’t me, it ain’t me, I ain’t no fortunate one”. So, I vote for the side which seems to be supporting us non fortunates more than the other in spite of my sides failings.

          • tony newbill

            Macgyver1948 , Reading this story shows the power to reject the Dollar as the International Settlement currency is near ….. it would not be this way if the USA would not have dismantled its Industrial production capacity making it dependent on these same nations parts supplies now rather than maintaining a balanced level of domestic production that should had been negotiated over the years in the framework of the WTO trade policy . Squeezing off dollar accumulation by these BRICS will cut supply flows into the USA and inflation on existing supply will be the effect on the US markets . Consumer incomes being stagnate will stall GDP. This is not rocket science and it could be debated that this is happening now and has been since the QE Policy started so what is the True Equity markets value ???

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/vladimir-putin-rolls-out-the-red-carpet-and-guards-on-horseback-for-visit-of-president-xi-jinping-8546512.html

            What will accelerate this dollar rejection event is what the Cyprus deal does with the Russian deposits in Cyprus , And once the unity between Russia and China solidifies the EU will be offered a Currency exchange and bond market investment with the BRICS that it will not refuse because they are as Dependent on the BRICS parts supplies as the USA is , and this will start the fracture between the USA and Europe in dollar settlements and start the ball rolling with dollar trade becoming Isolated from the world of supply side trade . And what can the USA do about this …. Not much but get ready for a supply shortage . This is the reason for DHS Ammo Buy that Drudge has been reporting on .

            ht tp://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/23/us-cyprus-parliament-idUSBRE92G03I20130323

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… The power to reject the dollar as a world standard is what our enemies want. We help by forfeiting on loans and making the dollar weaker. Making it harder to loan the US money, by raising the debt levels so soften is also how our money loses credibility. If we as individuals show we have less control to repay banks are less likely to loan us money because they have less faith in our ability to repay. It is the same in a way for the US Government. It has been going on like this for so many years so it cannot be attached to only Obama. We, as regular citizens, will have to wait and see what the Cyprus Deal will do, what else can we do. I just know so many things Obama has been accused, or “will cause”, of by your side hasn’t happened so we wait.

            Obama is not the evil your side says.

          • tony newbill

            Macgyver1948 , Why would China and the BRICS continue to use the Dollar as the international settlement currency when this is now the economic reality ???? All they need is the EU to Defect from the US Dollar as the settlement for the Eurozone trade outside the union and look out .

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/9947825/China-to-overtake-America-by-2016.html

            Key Language in this article tells of the Shortage of supply in the USA that can result from the Change of settlement currency exchanges as this currency war evolves .
            h tt p://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/9904512/China-fully-prepared-for-currency-war.html

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… China does what is in their best interest at the time and that can be different things in different parts of the world, much as we do. Why isn’t China putting pressure on the EU is not for us to say but only for them. China still possesses many US Dollars so they have to use it until they have what they want. They are buying up gold around the world wherever they can.

            Thanks for the links…

      • deerinwater

        Well, I really don’t believe Hillary will run. I don’t think her or Bill are up to it. Both of them are tired political animals. ~ There is a lot of behind the scenes work that is rewarding enough to keep the hunger fed and still have a nice personal life. That is what I hope that they do.

        Put it this way, ~ I would be surprised. But the answer is not available for the mere asking as the unknown and uncertain shapes the political landscape.

        While today, I don’t believe the GOP has anyone in the lineup that could beat Hillary. Maybe by 2016 that will change.

        • Jeff

          Unfortunately, there’s 47% of the population so easily manipulated by b.s. they vote Repug every time.

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            Hmm? I come near thinking 27% are dye in the wool GOP and would vote for Daffy Duck if he was their candidate and 20% that can be very easily swayed to believe anything by that 27%.

          • Bob666

            Yes, even if Christ him self came and ran as a democrat.

          • R. Fine

            If Jesus ever came and ran for office it would be as a socialist or communist. “Feed the hungry”? “Care for the sick”? “Do unto others…”? “Store your treasure in heaven, not on earth”? “The meek shall inherit the earth”? “You can not serve both God and money”? This is commie talk!

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Jeff @ 6:11 pm
        Jeffry, for WHAT things between Israel and Turkey your bastard FRAUD wingnut deserves credits?

        What the Kenyan Kriminal did that he deserves Kredit? That O’homo forced Netanyahu to apologize for what Israel had to do – to take SECURITY MEASURES TO PREVENT WEAPONS SMUGGLING to Gaza?

        “I will gather ALL the nations…and I will enter into judgment with them there on behalf of MY PEOPLE and MY HERITAGE ISRAEL, because they have…divided up My LAND” (Joel 3:2)

        “NOT ONE of the good promises which the LORD had made to the HOUSE OF ISRAEL failed; all came to pass.” (Joshua 21: 45)

        • Bob666

          Yo Pigsty,
          “That O’homo”

          You really seem to be over focused on alternate lifestyles-anything that you want to tell us?

        • macgyver1948

          Alondra… You include “NOT ONE of the good promises which the LORD had made to the HOUSE OF ISRAEL failed; all came to pass.” (Joshua 21: 45). Yep but at Joshua’s time, not yet ours. For example, for the Israelites, The Hebrew Messiah has not yet arrived at all. This is one more example of why I told you before you should stay out of the Hebrew Bible because you misinterpret/misuse it for your own purposes.

          Also with all your childish name calling and insulting of Obama do you really think your Jesus would approve of your (yes, again) childish tactics? Grow up already. Obama is doing pretty well, considering, with Israel and Turkey on this trip.

          Also below is Joel Chapter 3 יוֹאֵל from the Hebrew Bible. What is it you say is Joel Chapter 3? Did you rewrite or edit it for your purposes? (You said it is “I will gather ALL the nations…and I will enter into judgment with them there on behalf of MY PEOPLE and MY HERITAGE ISRAEL, because they have…divided up My LAND” (Joel 3:2)”). Small point but it is the point about you. Below is how it has been since Moses until you decided to do what with it? Actually your quoted scripture is Joel Chapter 4:2 יוֹאֵ.

          Could that be a typo on your part, something you seem to enjoy putting those who will not agree with you down for to misdirect or something, who knows what your reasons are for insulting others so childishly. I have seen your kind change the Second Commandment also for some reason. Please stay out or The Hebrew Bible.

          Joel 3:

          1 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young menshall see visions;

          2 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit.

          3 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

          4 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

          5 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered; for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those that escape, as the LORD hath said, and among the remnant those whom the LORD shall call.

    • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

      Still basting in the glory of 2010 midterm election results I see. 30 governorship Hmm? ~ I know of three that have some “buyers remorse”. If they loose their post , that would be 27 governors out of 52. ~ I fail to see much reason for boost there.

      I’ve been reading “General H. Norman Schwarzkopf” autobiography , a second generation West Pointer and his life of service to our nation. How many times that he considered just giving up his military career as the Army has serious problems after Korea. ~ Leadership was failing ~ Seasoned officers and Noncoms were in short supply, ethics and moral was low, the caliber of senior staff was not always what it should have been, ~ funding was low, the air force was getting the lions share of the budget. There was some talk in high circles that there may never be another ground war. Leadership of quality had engaged the private sector and the ones that could not make the cut, returned back to military life.

      I think of this as that sort of sums up what we see in the GOP today.

      Page 82 and 83 ~~ 1957, as a young Lieutenant assigned to the 101st airborne ,disillusioned with what he sees in command and execution he writes;

      “After an “annual training test” at the squad level, the platoon level all the way up the battle group. A year of practiced routines we knew would be on the test, We rehearsed, usually on the same ground the test would be taken. It was really that “Micky Mouse” Yet I could see that our battle group did not preform well. The orders did not get out in time, the attack was carried off sloppily ~ there were problems galore. ~ Yet when we got our final score it was 99.8!

      “THAT WAS OUR CULTURE” ~~ “ADMITTING WEAKNESS WAS SEEN AS A FAILURE TO MANIFEST THE “Can-Do” attitude expected of an Airborne officer.”

      In his summary paragraph ~ Norman Schwarzkopf shares with us what he sees that it missing.

      “To me this seems not only crazy, but incompatible with the standard of ‘honesty’ we’d learned at West Point.

      So I ask my GOP friends today ~ where is the standard of ‘Honesty’ that it’s going to take to put the GOP back into the game?

      • Bob666

        Yo Deer,
        “I’ve been reading “General H. Norman Schwarzkopf” autobiography”

        Norman Schwarzkopf was one of our most recent great Americans and could learn from the failure of others and not repeat that failure. I read his autobiography and that of Powell several years ago.

        If only “W” and his crew had paid attention to how Norman Schwarzkopf & Colon Powell executed desert storm, the GOP might have had a shot in 2008 and we would be far better off today.

      • deerinwater

        Norman learned the value of speed and focused efforts in Nam. ~ Actually he was a man that spent his life learning how to lead men into warfare and had many great teachers to his credit. I was surprised to learn that he was no stranger to Iran or the middle east before he was 20 years of age.

        Don’t pay rent ! ~ Our home is America, ~ take care of business and leave the defeated to sort the results out on their own time. Screw nation building. ~ that’s Bankers, concrete men and carpenter work.

      • Charlie

        macgyver1948,,,
        Thanks for the sermon ,,,but,,,now tell us about the “Curse” on the Edomite jews at Malachi 1:1–5………… Meanwhile………………………..
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • macgyver1948

          Charlie…
          RE: Malachi Chapter 1 מַלְאָכִי
          Since I already believe “The LORD is great beyond the border of Israel”, as in Malachi Chapter 1 מַלְאָכִי 5, what is your point to ask these kinds of questions of anyway in these venues, this site for example? What is it you are trying to do, proselytize again because if I do not see things your way I have to be wrong? What is the connection with Malachi?

          Malachi begins with “1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi”. It seems it is Malachi’s task, as asked by God, to to spread what is in Torah. Simple enough much as your Jesus asked of his disciples after Jesus rose – after his crucifixion, but for your religion..

          2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say: ‘Wherein hast Thou loved us?’ Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD; yet I loved Jacob;”. God is telling here that He loves us but we are still sceptticle.

          3 But Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and gave his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness.

          4 Whereas Edom saith: ‘We are beaten down, but we will return and build the waste places’; thus saith the LORD of hosts: They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall be called the border of wickedness, and the people whom the LORD execrateth for ever.

          5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say: ‘The LORD is great beyond the border of Israel.’

      • Charlie

        Mac1948,,,
        My point in asking any question is to arrive at Truth of what ever the subject matter may be… You have NOT yet defined what the 3 definitions of the word “Jew” are as written in The Holy Bible,,,but,,,you have written you are a Jew,,,but,,, don’t say what kind,,,it reads
        as you and others don’t know who you are… You are a “Edomite jew”" as King Jesus pointed out at John 8:30–50, also at Revelations 2:9, 3:9… Meanwhile………………..
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • macgyver1948

          Charlie… You again say I have not answered your question “what kind of Jew are you?” Wow, I have answered it but it seems, as with many aspects of you, you are not willing to accept the answers. I was born and raised in a Ultra-Conservative Jewish family. That is religiously Jewish conservative, not at all connected with politically conservative, thank God. Also, as I have explained to you before, both my parents were born Jewish and so on, as far as we know, our family Jewishness goes all the way back to Abraham. So what is it you are really asking in this regard? Maybe you just do not get the answers you want and can accept for your belief system to be fulfilled for you.

          You say your “point in asking any question is to arrive at Truth of what ever the subject matter may be”. Considering how often you do not accept answers that do not agree with your belief system you are the ultimate, but typical-of-people-like-you, fraud and phony when it comes to you wanting “to arrive at Truth of what ever the subject matter may be”. Who are you to tell people their religions are wrong or that their bibles are not right if the original interpretations are not the same as what you say they should be. It is so difficult, if not impossible, to carry on intelligent and adult conversations with people like you.

          Your “only my ways of believing and understanding is the right way for all” is from Hell so what is your point to it? It at least very much contradicts God’s Free Will gift for us all. What I have encountered with people who think so narrow mind-idly as you do, those minority kinds of Christians and what I read about of the Muslim extremists jihadists – all the same nature and attitudes, are what loses you and your kind credibility. I grew up in New York City, and then later as an adult in New Jersey, I had many Christian friends, both Catholic and Protestant, and never did I encounter the disrespect and shame from others of their “religions” I have since I moved here to the so called bible belt in the mid west and lately here on line.

          Yeah right, I am “a “Edomite jew” because the likes of you says so. LOL Again, you Charlie have no credibility so why should I be concerned with what you say about me?

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            I will accept you as what ever kind of “Jew” that you feel comfortable as being.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… Thanks, that sounds kosher to me, LOL…

          • Jeff

            Mac:

            I take it you’ve discovered it’s a fool’s errand to attempt communication with Charlie. He likes to thump the Bible rather than think. Of course, he’s another one who knows some of the Bible’s lyrics but none of its tune. When you say, “Conservative” do you mean “Orthodox” or the mid-way between Orthodox and Reform that’s typically referred to as Conservative?

          • macgyver1948

            [comment has been removed]

          • Jeff

            Sounds pretty Orthodox to me. When I was a kid, we went to an Orthodox Synagogue in New York. The men and women separated, the whole thing. But we never kept kosher. When we moved to California, there was only one synagogue in town and it was nominally “Conservative,” in the sense of mid-way between Orthodox and Reform. Basically, it meant whatever the Rabbi said it did. I taught Bar Mitzvah students beginning just before my own and for a couple of years afterward, so i was pretty close with the Rabbi though our relationship was strained a few years later when he endorsed Nixon for re-election.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Maybe but it was still referred to as Ultra Conservative so maybe that was the difference.

            Now, Nixon, really. The “I am not a crook” guy”? Ok, I see why there was a falling out, LOL…

        • Bob666

          Yo Mac,
          I guess that being one of the average Jews just does not cut it anymore?

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… just not being totally them does not cut it. LOL…

      • Charlie

        Mac1948,,,YO YO,,,.et al,,,.
        You just gave one of your typical answers that does NOT match any critical Scriptures… That’s what make your answer WRONG ,,,You and most others have very little Scripture Harmonization… to prove anything you say,,, should We believe a nitwit religious jew,,?OR
        The Holy Bible as it is plainly written… Most words in The NASB version are easy to define with most any dictionary… I had a person say that only does not mean only,,,that’s about the way some of you are… IF,,,I said up means up ,you would probably say no, it means sideways…. Ha ha ha ha ha you are a joke,,,go read the Bible for your self……………………
        Meanwhile,,, Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Jeff

          “to prove anything you say,,, should We believe a nitwit religious jew,,?OR”

          It’s not nice to talk about Jesus that way.”

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff and of course @ Charlie… Considering Jesus was a rabbi I wonder if Charlie knows what that means. The word itself, “rabbi”, means teacher and specifically it means “A teacher and explainer of Torah”. Even until Jesus died he was a rabbi and a true believer and teacher of Torah, he was always a Jew. I wonder if Charlie is trying to not remember Jesus’ religion and what Torah meant to him. He very much does not know the meaning of Torah’s scriptures and that includes the Ten Commandants which comes from Torah.

            It’s funny, Hitler liked Christianity too but he too tried to deny Jesus’ religion and its true meanings almost just as Charlie does with his form of insults. I wonder if there is a connection.

            “Jewish references erased in newly found Nazi Bible”.

            “An institute in Germany has unearthed a Nazi bible ordered by Adolf Hitler to replace the old and new testaments expunged of all references to Jews”.

            “Hitler’s race theorists even rewrote the 10 commandments and added two more for good measure in the book called �German with God� which was � alongside Hitler� s autobiography � meant to be requiredreading in every home in his Third Reich”.

            Thou shalt not kill, coveting one’s neighbour’s wife, thou shalt not steal and all other others were scrapped by a regime that stole, murdered and plundered its way across the world.

            More at http://www.religionnewsblog.com/15548/jewish-references-erased-in-newly-found-nazi-bible

            888

            Sorry Charlie, your tuna stinks but thanks for your meaningless and weak on going attempt to insult and degrade my religion. Oh yeah, Jesus’ religion too.

        • Bob666

          Charlie,
          Got into the east candy and got another sugar rush? All carbed up and no one to annoy?

          • Jeff

            Those marshmallow bunnies bring out the Jesus in him.

          • Bob666

            Yo Jeff,
            Pink Peeps-should we read something into that?????

        • macgyver1948

          Charlie.,,, Your horns are showing and your bigotry is getting less and less tolerable with each new comment of yours. You haven’t proven your stint and just by claiming your book is “The Holy Bible as it is plainly written…” is in itself not proof of anything. Either that your are a liar or you just do not know what proof and logic are. You go way beyond your right to your faith as you see it, you do what tyrants and zealots in history have done, but without their authority and power. You do the lying and ‘we will hurt you if you do not do it our ways’ thing but for now all you can do is the insulting and name calling.

          You are no one who acts as though you believe in Freedom and Liberty. Aren’t you feeling uncomfortable still calling yourself an American by now or are you that blind you still do not get it? I have loads of respect for the Christian faiths for those who choose them but you do not know the meaning. So, go do your “only my ways are right for all God-less and anti-American” thing and stay away from real Christians and the rest of us who love and believe in God.

      • Charlie

        Jeff,,,et al,,,
        For your info , King Jesus Christ was / is a bloodline Jew from The Tribe of Judah………..

        • macgyver1948

          Charlie (and for the rest of us “et al”s, LOL… It is pretty much true that Jesus is of the Hebrew tribe Judah but only in part if you believe in immaculate conception. And since it was a patriarchal society what does it mean that his mother was of that tribe? If you discount Joesph as Jesus’ blood father we cannot connect Jesus to David or Judah through Joseph or anyone but Mary. In patriarchal societies things, such as titles and inheritances, were passed down mostly from male to male.

          Also, in this case we do not know Jesus was in line for a kingship. He certainly was never anointed officially especially since it was not proven, by way of the DEEDS (which Jesus performed none of) as told to us by the Hebrew Prophets, that he was the Hebrew Messiah. There were many years between David and Jesus (“The time span between the death of king David, and the death of Jesus was about 1000 years (between 990 and 1010 years” from http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_years_between_King_David_and_Jesus) and there were many males in David’s line who were closer to being in line than Jesus. By the way, The Prophets said The Hebrew Messiah would have two (bloodline) mortal parents, meaning the Hebrew Messiah would be all mortal.

          You can’t have it both ways, either Jesus was immaculately conceived, thus eliminating Jesus from the point of conception from being the Hebrew Messiah per Hebrew prophecies, or he was conceived as the rest of us were with two bloodline mortal parents. Again, you cannot have it both ways. Nonetheless, either way, Jesus performed none of the needed deeds, and all were necessary in completion not just some or even one, as God told the Prophets for us to know, which is how and why we Jews know it is not Jesus as the Hebrew Messiah.

          Charlie, I told you at least once before, if you want Jesus to be the Christian Messiah and the Christian king go for it, we Jews would not care, but stay away from reinventing/editing the meanings of other religions’ scriptures, you just ain’t good at it for those of the other religions. You just do not understand, or do not want to, the Hebrew Bible, what you call “The Old Testament”.

      • Charlie

        Mac1948,,,
        IF??? what you say about The Bible is true? When is Your King going to show up on Earth ??? Are you saying that part of The KJV is right and part wrong??? What kind of “Double think” are you into ??? Meanwhile… for us real Christians……………………………..
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

  • richard brooks

    as long as the gop has folks like you as their core, the dems have nothing to worry about.

  • FreedomFighter

    Start supporting the constitution in big loud way and the Repubs would have 70%-80% of the vote.

    I have little hope they will.

    Laus Deo
    Semper FI

  • vigilannie

    I’m glad I changed my affiliation from ‘republican’ to conservative! This confirms my belief in what the republican agenda really is all about. (p.s. Rubio is NO conservative).

    • Jimmy the Greek

      You got that right ! when he was up there with the other 7 clowns he even looked like the rest of them !

    • Texas Ride

      Rubio is looking to turn this country into “Latin America.”

      • Bob666

        Yo Short Ride,
        “Rubio is looking to turn this country into “Latin America.”

        You obviously don’t know Rubio.

  • Flashy

    Let’s see…just got roundly spanked in recent elections, over 70% of Asian voters, 80% Latino voters, 90% African American voters, the majority of women, the majority of young..all reject dounsly the GOP and its proposed policies. Overall, 26% of Ame4rican voters in 2013 have a positive opinion of the GOP. it’s most vocal and media savvy people are considered extremists. Extremist views which have only the support of 15% of the American voter.

    Budget proposal gut programs for the poor, the middle class, small business, young, old, science, education, health, and the family farm. Tax policy proposals which favor the wealthy and Big Corporate America. Social policies which forward a strict religious mindset ramrodding over the beliefs and morals of the vast majority. Voting laws calculated for no reson other than restricting voting of the people. Creating deadlock in Congress hampering the progress of this nation’s economy and intrnational well-being.

    Yeaah Chip…you’re right. No need for the GOP to change. If it doesn’t change, not merely re-market and lie about its true goals…it dooms itself to be a regional, not national party. And the only reason it will remain even a regional force is by manipulation of the voting rolls and continued reliance upon the Tea party/American taliban trilogy of relying on convincing its members to fear, anger and remain ignorant.

    • FreedomFighter

      Flash for the Flashy: Repubs ran on almost all the same stuff Obama did, they were just Obama light, less filling.

      Whats that tell you about Democrat principles (as if they actually had any).

      Laus Deo
      Semper FI

      • Flashy

        FF…curious….are you supporting the current movement of Ted Cruz for Pres or VP?

      • FreedomFighter

        Flash because you asked a real question:

        I currently dont support anyone.

        I dont believe we will make it to the next election due to martial law, war or economic collapse. If we do make it to the next election, it probably wont matter or change the course we are currently on. It wouldnt hurt my feelings to be wrong though.

        Laus Deo
        Semper FI

        • tony newbill

          An interesting series of events in the lead up to Cyprus
          a mysterious wall street trader makes an 11 million dollar bet
          LINKS
          Articles:——->http://www.businessinsider.com/art-cashin-on-big-vix-bet-2013-2
          “NEXT THING YA KNOW THE CYPRUS CRISIS HAPPENED”
          Articles:——> ht tp://www.infowars.com/do-wall-street-insiders-expect-something-really-big-to-happen-very-soon/
          “NEXT THING YA KNOW THE CYPRUS CRISIS HAPPENED”
          Articles:——> ht tp://www.dailypaul.com/273612/some-trader-has-made-a-very-big-bet-that-something-very-bad-will-happen-within-the-next-60-days
          “NEXT THING YA KNOW THE CYPRUS CRISIS HAPPENED”
          VIDEO——-> Dated Feb 8 2013 ht tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvjtJEHrZ-Q
          Just like 9/11. Some trader made a bet 9/11 would happen BEFORE it took place
          ht tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTVa-zBHKuQ
          Guess who knew about the gulf oil spill BEFORE IT HAPPENED
          ht tp://www.activistpost.com/2013/03/who-had-foreknowledge-of-gulf-oil-spill.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ActivistPost+%28Activist+Post%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

      • Don 2

        FF,

        That’s an interesting point that you make about not making it to the next (presidential) election. I will not be surprised if we do not make it.

        Things should start to get real interesting on January 1, 2014, when the real effects of Obamacare rolls around, and all hell breaks loose. Etna has just released a statement that their insurance rates will be going up somewhere between 20% and 100%.

        The NY Times did a story today where they actually told the truth. What a surprise. A bakery in NYC that employs 95 people and brings in $200,000. per year finds that because of Obamacare, their health insurance premiums will be going up $108,000. per year. They could opt for the fines instead of covering their employees, but that will cost them $130,000. more per year. Their last options is to lay off 46 people and get under the 50 employee mark, which is the likely plan of action. However, with 46 fewer employees, what will be the new earning capabilities of the bakery, and can they even stay in business.

        Now, multiply this fiasco to small businesses all around the country, and try to imagine how this will affect the economy and the employment picture? Add to it the tens of thousands of other small businesses that will fire employees, and reduce full-time employee hours to less than 30 hours, in order to get around Obamacare, thereby causing untold financial problems for Joe Citizen.

        Now consider that Obamacare is now up to somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 pages of rules and regulations that nobody has a grasp on, nobody understands, the rules keep changing, and the fact that on-time implementation of the law may not even be feasible. Sounds like economic chaos to me.

        • R. Fine

          You have aptly noted the problem the insurance companies present. At the moment insurance companies eat up 30% of health care dollars and half the time the insured find out that they are not even covered for much. We in Canada find that really curious. We do not allow insurance companies to be involved in our universal health care system. One can get private insurance if you want a private hospital room, full time nurse, TV etc. but basically ALL medical needs of all citizens are covered by the government plan which is funded by income tax dollars. In my own case as a retired high school teacher on a pension my monthly payments come to $28. I recently had a heart attack that needed emergency surgery, 6 days in hospital, tons of tests of all kinds, rehab, several doctor visits with more to come etc., etc and my bill came to $0. In the states I figure I’d owe close to 200,000$ by now and I’d have to go into bankruptcy and lose my home and future. Obama has made some headway against your medieval medical thinking but he’s really only gone a little distance towards a decent and equitable system. Hopefully he’ll be able to make improvements in his second term and if not him Hilary certainly will. I should add that as great as Canada’s system is Israel goes even further as they also cover dental care for children. That’s something even we in Canada can only dream about.

          • Jeff

            I hope your recovery is going well. It is good for Americans to hear positive stories about the Canadian (and British) health systems as the right wingers here are constantly telling or inventing stories of long waits for necessary medical procedures. Of course, here if you don’t have the money, you can’t get treated at all except for emergency care. The wingnuts have even gone so far as to say if Stephen Hawking were reliant on the British Health System, he’d have died years ago. Of course, anyone with a functioning brain knows he HAS been kept alive, against all odds, for decades by that most awful of systems (After all, there is no billionaire CEO).

          • tony newbill

            Jeff don’t lie to people about Obamacare !!!!

            Obamacare: Doctors must report patient BMI and lifestyle to HHS to use as pretext for denying treatment

            http://1389blog.com/2013/03/23/obamacare-doctors-must-report-patient-bmi-and-lifestyle-to-hhs-to-use-as-pretext-for-denying-treatment/

          • Jeff

            Really? What will doctors do all day if they can’t treat fat patients? Perhaps if doctors notice an increase in a patient’s BMI over time, they might counsel him/her about weight reduction? I know you wingnuts insist on interpreting everything according to the Glenn Beck Maxim that anything you can imagine Obama doing is what he will definitely do, but have you heard of anyone being denied treatment because of weight? In Canada? Western Europe? When you find yourself in regular agreement with Michelle Bachmann, perhaps it’s time to question your premises.

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            Jeff: What was really funny about the last election – and not covered much by the U.S. media – was when Mitt went to Israel (to raise money) and he spent some lavish words praising the Israeli Health Care system. He said it was the best in the world, less expensive than the U.S. & A. and with better outcomes. Israel even covers dental care for children. Then someone whispered in Mitt’s ear that Israel enjoys socialized medicine!!! Oooops. Suddenly Mitt dropped the subject. And to think he was probably the smartest of the GOP contenders. Scary.

          • Jeff

            I had forgotten about that. Obviously your mind is still sharp.

          • tony newbill

            The Canadian Healthcare system would not work as well if the country didn’t have the exports to the USA , so if they run out of other peoples money like socialism has a problem with then your healthcare system will have to make cuts to the amount of treatments just like we are going to see happen dramatically in the USA as the dollar collapses and socialist nations can’t find a replacement export market to generate the revenue from like they have the USA since the beginning of the failed WTO trade policy !!!

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            Like most countries Canada trades with other nations. Is there something objectionable about that? I don’t think so. By the way America’s main source of OIL is Canada and we are your biggest buyer of all sorts of U.S. made products. Trade works both ways. Perhaps you would like to depend on the Middle East for ALL your oil. Have you thought of that?

          • tony newbill

            Yes Robbie FINE there is something VERY WRONG when the USA Policy Makers have NEVER negotiated a balanced Trade agreement since the WTO started in 1994-5 that was warned by Perot to not implement that trade policy or we would her a Giant sucking sound on our Industry , resources and wealth because of the effects of Gresham’s Law of the 14th Century that has evolved now and left us DEPENDENT on all FOREIGN PARTS SUPPLIES and Vulnerable to a Currency crash and end to the dollar as worlds trade currency !!!!
            So Yeah I do have a problem with Unfairly negotiated trade that has created the demise of the USA !!!!!

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            But the U.S. is the biggest economy in the world and the most powerful nation on earth. What is all this talk of a demise? I just don’t see that. I’d say you’re being somewhat alarmist.

          • Jeff

            OMG, paranoia on a right wing blog! Alert the press. These guys were born paranoid, and every event in their lives has convinced them the Black Helicopters are right around the corner.

          • macgyver1948

            Robbie… I agree but so many on the Right here, those supporting the Right, are told to believe we are a failing nation. It can take someone from the outside to express what is a reality but many of us here try to here as well. I guess the Right gets off on failures, real or made up, so they can feel they are working harder to get more of them elected.

            The US is so much better off than the Right wants us to believe but we still need to help ourselves more. The Right, not just tony, is being that alarmist you mention.

          • Jeff

            And if the world economy collapses, who will have the money for private insurance? Canada is a big trading partner of ours. If our economy is hurt, so is theirs. So is the entire world’s. WTF is your point? You want to deregulate the banks even more so the next collapse comes more quickly – all so Canadians can’t get health care either?

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            Our Canadian economy stayed strong all through the last economic meltdown because we have very strict governmental regulations on banks.

          • macgyver1948

            Robbie… That is very much one of our problems. Our Banks are not regulated enough and that was something our Founders warned us about, the evils of corporations in general but very much banks included.

          • tony newbill

            Macgyver1948 well then what about these 2 issues that Obama seems to be failing in regarding banks ,

            Exclusive: U.S. plans to let spy agencies scour Americans’ finances

            ht tp://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/13/us-usa-banks-spying-idUSBRE92C12720130313

            Obama’s Banks Nominee Will NOT Prosecute, Punish, or Regulate
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2CMrxdCNC4Y

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… I do not like everything Obama does and I speak out when I do. I write to my Democratic Senator when I do. I do not like the idea of government looking into my finances because it dampens my liberty. We will see what this does to us as as it progresses. It reminds me of the little bush jr and Homeland Security thing for phone call listening.

            Actually it is for security reasons I think and that too bothers me. I could say we cannot allow our liberty to be adjusted for security reasons but I will let this old guy do it for me. Do you know this guy?

            “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin said this.

          • tony newbill

            Robbiefine STOP the SPIN of what is REAL about this issue !!!! What would Israels healthcare system look like if the USA did not send TONS of funding there ??

            Common Think about the ratio of unbalanced trade per population in Canada and ratio of Population in Israel per Amount of Funding that Israel gets ????

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            Probably 95% of U.S. aid to Israel – and elsewhere for that matter – is in the form of American made products which means that aid is providing business and jobs to Americans. Of course Israel has to be grateful for American aid but then America should be grateful for all the most innovative high tech that comes out of that amazing country to the benefit of YOU.

            In any case the way medical care is provided to a given population is the topic here. In that regard America has much to learn from others. But that in itself is part of the problem. Most Americans are of the opinion that whatever it is they are doing is, by definition, the best way to do things.

          • tony newbill

            Robbiefine its amazing how much Manufacturing Buffet has in Israel and how much that aid benefits the Buffet dynasty !!!!!!!!

          • Jeff

            We’re the biggest and baddest kid on the block, and our Dad drives the biggest car. Doesn’t that mean we’re also the smartest and know best about everything? I believe that’s the Republican definition of American Exceptionalism. So what if Republican policies (death penalty, de-regulation, diminished social safety net) have more in common with North Korea and China than with Western Europe and Canada? The Republican answer for every problem is: cut taxes, deregulate, and buy more guns. It is not an accident that since 1980, income and wealth stratification have skyrocketed. It is not a natural outcome of capitalism but was purposely done through taxing capital gains at far lower rates and through encouraging the wealthy to think about nothing but becoming wealthier. In many ways, we are still living in the Reagan Age of Greed. Most people disagree with Repug. priorities, but the system is set up to frustrate the will of the majority if it conflicts with the will of Big Money.

          • Jeff

            What % of GDP does Canada spend on “defense”? Israel spends plenty, but they recognize the health of the population is a priority. Even Mitt Romney was impressed. I’m sure you will go down swinging as Obamacare gets more and more popular once it is fully implemented. For how many years did you or your father/grandfather fight social security? Why should we be the last modern country with no effective social safety net? So we can outspend the entire world on arms? Do you think the concentration of the wealth at the top and the lack of jobs at the bottom has anything to do with our incredible levels of gun violence? Do you think shredding the Social Contract is done without consequence? Think again.

          • Bob666

            Yo Jeff,
            While I can tell you what Canada spent on defense, Canada spent 11.3 % of GDP on health care to insure every citizen and we spent 17,9 % of GDP and we did not insure everyone. These are 2010 numbers from the world bank.

            Source: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            The so-called richest most powerful nation on earth supposedly can’t even provide health care to all its citizens. It is a shame.

          • macgyver1948

            Robbiefine… Yes, it is a shame. We have been trying to do just that since Ronald Reagan suggested it while he was president and the GOP ran a bill through Congress in the early 1990′s but failed. Romney used loads if that GOP approach for his RomneyCare for Massachusetts while he was Governor and used many of the failing aspects of the GOP version. A lot of people in Massachusetts do not like Romney and his health care plan for them was one of those reasons. Romney did not win his state in the Presidential election. Now it is Obama’s turn, which included a number if “insisted” upon GOP items which included the GOP Mandate that was declared Constitutional for ObamaCare by our SCOTUS. I hate that GOP part, the Mandate, most of all but Obama had no choice if he wanted Affordable National Health Care to be law. I hope much of the bad parts of OCare are removed soon and mostly the GOP insisted ones that helped cause their 1990s GOP version to fail.

            Again, it is a shame.

      • Don 2

        R. Fine,

        You are clueless. Forget being in another country. You might as well be on another planet.

        • R. Fine

          Something I wrote that you didn’t agree with? You’re not giving a clue as to what that might be. Maybe you just have no good answer for it.

  • http://yahoo don

    the democrats have stuffy old senators. how about pelosi, fienstien and reid. maybe they need to clean them out. i think these people believe they are royalty who can decide everything for the people. i think we need to clean out a lot of the stuffy old democrats too. ol’ rand and rubio are almost like a breath of fresh air in congress. lets get a few more like them. maybe there would be the changes this country actually needs badly.

  • diana

    Well I don’t like either party and I’am not a stuffy old man, the trouble is there are to many perverts in gov. We have let perverts take over so it’s dirty old men and women

    • FreedomFighter

      Stuffy old men will run the world nomatter who you “Think” you elect, unless we elect somebody like Ron Paul that is “outside”.

      Laus Deo
      Semper FI

  • Bob666

    Yo Chip,

    “I’m talking about winning candidates such as Rand Paul in Kentucky, Marco Rubio in Florida, Mike Lee in Utah, Ted Cruz in Texas and the dozens of tough-minded conservatives who swept to victory in the House. Plus, let’s not forget that Republicans won governorships in 30 states’.

    you tend to be one of the more rational authors on this site, but while you have made some very good points, if the GOP does not divest them selves of the Waco religious right, mainstream voters will continue to move away from the GOP.

    History will continue to repeat itself.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

      Bob666: if the GOP does not divest them selves of the Waco religious right, mainstream voters will continue to move away from the GOP.

      Would you classify “Muslims” as “religious-wackos”? In case you are unaware, “Muslim-Americans are a voting force as well. There are approx. 5 million registered muslims voters in the United States. Should they also be considered “religious-wackos” if they were to vote Republican, but the denigrating “label” removed were they to vote Democrat? It seems “tolerance” is a word that is often used by the “left”, yet it’s principles are rarely applied.

      • Bob666

        Oh WTS,
        Some who follow Islam are no different that many of those who are Christians. Both present a problem for the mainstream middle of the road voters that decide elections these days.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

        Bob666: Some who follow Islam are no different that many of those who are Christians.

        Why? Because both are “religious”? That’s like saying there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans because both are “political”.

        Bob666: Both present a problem for the mainstream middle of the road voters that decide elections these days.

        If the “mainstream middle of the road voters” decide elections these days, what problems then, could the “religious-crowd” be presenting? If the “mainstream middle of the road voters” decide elections these days, then clearly, the “religious-crowd” is of no consequence, and do not pose a threat. What then is the “problem” you claim they are presenting?

        • Bob666

          Yo WTS,
          There is no party that represent the mainstream here in America, All the polls that I have read say that most voters are physically conservative and socially liberal. The right is physically conservative but go against libertarian views of personal freedom when it comes to abortion and religious freedom.

          The left, favor social liberties but is to far out of the box when it comes to physical conservatism. The paradox of religious freedom lies more in between since most mainstream folks respect the right for citizens to worship as they chose, but those on the right would show less tolerance if one is not Christian.

          I believe that our founding fathers had the right idea to separate religion from government.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… We do agree on much of what you say with this, I see a lot of the same things here. The Founders talked about “Separation Of Church and State” often enough but then decided to leave it up to the states instead of placing it along with “Freedom Of Religion” in the Constitution. I believe they made a mistake in that because of events since their time. Also more than enough of those who really believe in “Freedom Of Religion” for all equally should insist of the Congress that “Separation Of Church and State” be added to the Constitution very soon for many reasons.

            I say this a lot but it cannot be said enough until it is added. As the Founders intended this is NOT a country of any specific religion but instead it is a country for all religions equally – well, it’s suppose to be. We cannot have equal religious freedom as long as there are some who think it is their religion’s country and there are those who are made to feel left out or second class because of it. History has proven that all too often.

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            macgyver1948 offer us “. We cannot have equal religious freedom as long as there are some who think it is their religion’s country and there are those who are made to feel left out or second class because of it. History has proven that all too often.”

            Excellent point and worthy repeating until everyone grasp the meaning of it. Your freedom ends when another man’s nose begins. He enjoys the same freedoms that you do.

          • macgyver1948

            Deerinwater… Thanks. I just speaks as I sees ‘em from whats I feels. LOL…

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Uh, JAY(S)—–the number oid Muslims in the US is estImated to be between 2 and 7 million—–the number of Muslim voters is nowhere near 5 million—-might be closer to 2 or 3 million at most.. Just saying—-not likely to be much of a “voting power” anytime soon.

        • Jeff

          I believe the only state where their numbers could make a difference is Michigan.

          • macgyver1948

            This is interesting and some things many of us forget… http://www.arabamerica.com/michigan/news.php?id=3729

            I think those who feel Obama is so pro Muslim, and not pro Israel, this site might just enlighten you. Or is it that anything to fulfill the hate for Obama any way you can get it from those who tell you to? Maybe we should listen to the Muslim community on that instead of listening to those who hate both Muslims and Obama, Muslims can speak for themselves. It is time to learn Liberty on our own instead of allowing others to define it for us as they want it to be for all their ways.

            Remember I am very pro Israel and I am Jewish but I am for liberty for everyone equally so when I defend Muslims it is in the for-every-one-equally vein or Liberty is meaningless. We need to look at everyone individually and not generalize all of a group based on the small percentage within them as terrorists. Remember there are Christians in the KKK and Neo-Nazis and they are as evil as Al-Qaeda when it comes to ‘join or we will kill you’. The Jihad comes in may languages and cultures. Should we classify, generalize, all Christians as evil just because of those Christians in the KKK and the Neo-Nazis?..

    • momo

      Don’t you mean whacko? Waco is a city in Texas.

      • Bob666

        Yo MOMO,
        the new spell check will get all of us. You are correct, Whacko, not Waco-My bad.

    • TML

      Bob666, “the Waco religious right,”

      The religious right is not much better than the religious left. It’s not a political thing, it’s a religious thing. There just more socialist hippie Jesus freaks on the left is all.

      • Charlie

        TML,,,YO YO et al…
        Give me some Scripture numbers , so We can check out right, left thing you write of………….
        Meanwhile… Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Bob666

          Charlie,
          “Give me some Scripture numbers , so We can check out right, left thing you write of”

          Take a deep breath, drink lots of water to flush the sugar out of your system and everything will be OK.

          one day when you can have an open-minded dialog, we will have that discussion.

          By the way, Happy Easter to you.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… Only Charlie can make that miracle happen for him to be included in “an open-minded dialog”…

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            Yes, Charlie and Open-minded in the same sentence would be an oxymoron.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… yeah, he does prove that.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob, Charlie and everyone else whose holiday it is – HAPPY EASTER…

        • macgyver1948

          Hi Charlie… I see you are still at it. Good for you as you keep the camp fires burning…

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            If only we knew what Charlie was truly good at????

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… we kinda know. He is very good at “if you do not agree with me you have to be wrong”. That we know but sadly he is not alone in that demanding attitude.

      • Charlie

        MAC,,,YO YO ,,,et al,,,.
        You have few to none , answers to any simple questions on Bible Scriptures,,, because,,,
        You are nitwit heathens … Meanwhile….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Bob666

          Yo Charlie,
          “You have few to none , answers to any simple questions on Bible Scriptures,,, because,,,
          You are nitwit heathens”

          And where does the bible give you the right to make comments like that?

        • macgyver1948

          Charlie,,, Why am I a “nitwit heathen …”? Is it because I am Jewish and I cannot agree with you in how you see God and how you interpret your bible? Is it because of the contractions between your bible and mine? What is so wrong, to you, with “to each his/her own faith” and why do you have no respect for “Freedom Of Religion” within our Constitution?

          Is your narrow and closed mindedness, your lack of acceptance of other peoples beliefs and liberties if they do not agree with your ways, due to how you see your religion or are you just a nitwit of your own kind?

      • Charlie

        Mac1948,,,
        You are a nitwit heathen for the same reasons others are mostly ,,.that is you are “brainwashed” AND ignorant of what The Holy Bible says regarding ,,,”Salvation” ,,, Who God is,,,and,,,who your Lineage is in Harmony with The Holy Bible… Meanwhile………….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation….

        Charlie Freedom

        • Jeff

          Charlie:

          Is everyone who doesn’t see the world as you do a “nitwit heathen” or is that honor reserved for Mac alone? Do you understand the First Amendment? Clearly, an individual citizen is incapable of violating the 1st Amendment, but your narrow, didactic views are certainly un-American in spirit. Would you like to see your idea of religion become a mandatory State Religion forced on everyone “for their own good”? It certainly sounds like it. And how do you know everything you’ve been taught is true? Is the Earth really 6,000 years old and was Galileo really a heretic because he chose to think rather than accept what the Charlies of his era were peddling?

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… All good points you make to Charlie but they are wasted in his ‘World is flat’ thinking (really because it looks that way) and everything in the universe revolves around the Earth, or is it around Charlie. There are so many in history who were jailed by the church because they had the blasphemous ideas in math in science, ideas so well accepted by us and the church today. But Charlie knows better and we are all nitwits if we do not totally agree with him. Your suggestion that if Charlie had the power, he would eliminate what disagrees with him in the Constitution, well my wording, because he couldn’t stand to be disagreed with.

            Such a little spoiled boy he is and he doesn’t seem to be able to play well with others. I wonder what other science ideas will be accepted by the churches in the future because they could no loner refute them and remain sane looking, or will it be to do so in order to avoid losing more followers (which is why I think the churches finally came around to accepting that the Earth is not the center of the Universe or the flatness of it)? Charlie’s world must be a very dark, dull, flat and imaginary place.

          • Bob666

            Yo Jeff,
            Let’s not forget Leonardo di ser Piero da Vinci, who was arrested by the church for practicing which-craft because the dissection cadavers to understand how the human body functioned.

            Charlie is something special!

        • macgyver1948

          [comment has been edited]

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

    Chip, you can only establish a dictatorship by merging the two-parties…we are finally witnessing the “culmination” of the long desired “goal”. The so-called “schism” between the two parties was just a “ruse”…it was nothing more than the “Hegelian-dialect”…a tool which manipulates us into a frenzied circular pattern of thought and action. Every time we fight for or defend against an ideology we are playing a necessary role in Marx and Engels’ grand design to advance humanity into a dictatorship of the proletariat.

    The Hegelian dialectic is the framework for guiding our thoughts and actions into conflicts that lead us to a predetermined solution. If we do not understand how the Hegelian dialectic shapes our perceptions of the world, then we do not know how we are helping to implement the vision. When we remain locked into dialectical thinking, we cannot see out of the box.

    The synthetic Hegelian solution to all these conflicts can’t be introduced unless we all take a side that will advance the agenda. The Marxist’s global agenda is moving along at breakneck speed. The only way to completely stop the privacy invasions, expanding domestic police powers, land grabs, insane wars against inanimate objects (and transient verbs), covert actions, and outright assaults on individual liberty, is to step outside the dialectic. This releases us from the limitations of controlled and guided thought.

    When we understand what motivated Hegel, we can see his influence on all of our destinies. … Hegelian conflicts steer every political arena on the planet, from the United Nations to the major American political parties, all the way down to local school boards and community councils. Dialogues and consensus-building are primary tools of the dialectic, and terror and intimidation are also acceptable formats for obtaining the goal.

    The ultimate Third Way agenda is world government. Once we get what’s really going on, we can cut the strings and move our lives in original directions outside the confines of the dialectical madness. Focusing on Hegel’s and Engel’s ultimate agenda, and avoiding getting caught up in their impenetrable theories of social evolution, gives us the opportunity to think and act our way toward freedom, justice, and genuine liberty for all.

    Today the dialectic is active in every political issue that encourages taking sides. We can see it in environmentalists instigating conflicts against private property owners, in democrats against republicans, in greens against libertarians, in communists against socialists, in neo-cons against traditional conservatives, in community activists against individuals, in pro-choice versus pro-life, in Christians against Muslims, in isolationists versus interventionists, in peace activists against war hawks. No matter what the issue, the invisible dialectic aims to control both the conflict and the resolution of differences, and leads everyone involved into a new cycle of conflicts…

    So is it any wonder that we are witnessing the “compromise” or perhaps the merging/unification of the two parties?

    more on the Hegelian-dialect: http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/dialectic.htm

    • Flashy

      “you can only establish a dictatorship by merging the two-parties…we are finally witnessing the “culmination” of the long desired “goal”.”

      nice paste job WTS..ever have an original thought or are you a funnel for extremists ?

      IF you knew anything about political ideology and theory, you would know a simple basic fact. one third of the voters will vote right, one third will vote left. A candidate may take the most extreme views, and in most cases still pull the 30%. What creates a steady, stable governing body is the incorporation of that middle third. The “swing votes’ which will decide based upon events and policies affecting the current day. Of the two parties we have tody, one party, the Democratic party, is offering solutions and stating plans and policies. Those solutions, plans and policies are the center of debate amongst the electorate. They are being out forward to be debated and discussed. Whether they are enacted, tweaked, adopted in full…that is the question of debate. Solutions WTS … solutions. Forward thinking and open to change as events unfold to bring this nation ahead of the rest and set up for a strong 21st century presence and leadership.

      What solutions does the GOP and the extremists offer up? Other than saying ‘no’ and insisting on policies, plans and programs which have been…and will be…rejected as too radical and bordering on insane.

      That is the issue WTS. Solutions…..not the ranting of madmen for whom you paste articles from.

      • S.C.Murf

        flashless you are a FOOL now do you get paid to play the fool or is it that you just can’t help yourself? You offer nothing to help us out so just get out of the way and let adults figure this out. FOOL

        up the hill
        airborne

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

        Yours is a “rant” of twisted logic, meandering towards the conclusion(s) that will accommodate your prejudices…obviously. Rather than educate the readers in “political ideology and theory”, it exposes your bigotry, bias, partisanship, partiality, intolerance, discrimination, unfairness, and inequality. You seem speak in direct opposition to that which you claim your “party” stands for…are you aware of this?

      • TML

        Flashy says, “What creates a steady, stable governing body is the incorporation of that middle third. The “swing votes’ which will decide based upon events and policies affecting the current day.”

        Uh, no, we need a third party to rise up for those ‘middle third’. Those are the true moderates with true solutions. Those people are the ones getting sick of voting for the lesser of two evils. They accept viable solutions regardless of party. They stick to the priniciples of the Constitution regardless of party. The other two have given us the mess we are in, as they sit there and point back and forth like children saying, “you did it”, no “you did it”. The Democratic solutitons, depending on what flavor of despotism, are just the opposite end of the extreme in most cases.

  • Arlene coleman

    The total lack of transparency and all the deceit that has been going on with man that promised transparency. He lied in 90 percent of the crap he spewed in the debates and with the aide of commentators and the media he got away with his crap, it is unbelievable to me that people still support a man that has all but brought this great nation to its knees. He is not a leader, he is to weak to be a leader. A man that believes rules and the constitutional laws do not apply to him,making nice with the Muslim brotherhood shows u just how politically ignorant he is, his agenda was to destroy us, he should have been impeached. What is wrong with welfare reform? It should be reformed, put caps on it, u say its wrong to put caps on this and u obviously think it is right for our tax dollars to go to our enemies, I never tried to buy my friends, did u? I do agree the republicans have to quit being so passive and take a stand against this administration, and they do have some good up and coming faces, I will stand for America, lets get it going.

  • Al Chemist

    To the Republican Party from one “Stuffy Old Man.” Become democrat “lite” and you are going to lose a lot of stuffy old men and stuffy old women. The 55 plus demographic is one that of the few that remains (slightly) Republican. That demographic (believe it or not) is growing. Stuffy Old Men and Women are living a lot longer, and we are more active than our parents. We are the people who work for you at the polls, work in your office stuffing envelopes, pass out sheets with a list of local conservatives running for office at the polls, comprise the majority of the Tea Party… You know, the Tea Party, a group of people who helped elect all those “Young Turks” you are so proud of. Disrespect us and you are history! A third party is sounding real good right now.

    • Texas Ride

      Al Chemist, what you said is true and that is why obamacare will ration your healthcare and prevent you from living so long. Your demographic is standing in the way of the “progressives” and the plan is to eliminate you all, fast!

      The youth of this country are stupid and “uneducated for a purpose.” They can’t think for themselves and they only “parrot” their communist professors, radical leaders, and community organizers. They will be unleashed on the segment of the population that can still “reason, read, write, and understand what freedom means.
      The youth are being”honed” into a weapon against conservatives, and your demographic. They will be the ones knocking on your doors, searching your homes for contraband like.. food!

      I hope your demographic has a plan.

  • jopa

    In saying the young voters rolled their eyes and blocked their ears to the message of the GOP doesn’t make much sense to me.I think it was the other way around in that the young voters heard their message and then rolled their eyes.The problem is the message and the messengers in this case.Thank you and have a good one.

    • Flashy

      Jopa…the GOP is at a precipice. Study after study shows that when young, what a person votes two consecutive elections is pretty much determinative for the rest of their voting habits. The past two, the youth vote went heavily Democratic. I figure there was an abberration as the GOP was stricken by the cancerous extremist contingent … so I’ll give the GOP through 2014 elections to show a trend. THAT is what is scaring the bejeesus out of the moderates of the GOP. The loss of today’s youth vote…for a generation. If the GOP doesn’t right the ship and shove the extremists to the back of the room..and quickly, they’ve lost the majority of a generation.

      Sad…but true. A healthy system requires give and take between two competing parties, and the GOP is fast becoming a non party in the majority of the states.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

      Hmm, two narrow-minded imbeciles busy building a “one-way” street. I think i’ll take a detour…

    • http://personalliberty Alondra

      Jopa/Ass, who is rolling eyes, it’s your first negro witch:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXNvNbMKLyM

      Jopa, did you pay attention how she is much too busy shoveling food into her … mouth.
      Jopa, it’s hypocrisy on the full display: “do as I say, not as I do.”

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Jopa/Ass, We were told that The Kenyan improved the image of America in the World.

        http://theblacksphere.net/2013/03/first-lady-pole-dancing/

        What a “wonderful” example for the young girls. Total lock of ethical manners and values.
        But feminists like Karolyn and Sandra Fluke like this expression of vulgarity.
        ———————————————————————————————————
        @ March 21, 2013 at 12:33 pm Karolyn wrote:
        “Yes, Jeff, per Alondra: “Stay toned.” Make sure you get to the gym regularly.”

        Oh, liberal Karolyn. Before to point your Libtardic finger at my hit of the wrong letter on the keyboard, why would not you first look at your spellings?

        For example like this: @March 19, 2013 at 9:05 am
        Oh, the horro! NOt! Thanks for that Alondra! Love it! The lady can dance! Bet you can’t dance like that. Jelous? Well, I can and love to; and why shouldn’t michelle and Barak dance? People like you talk of elitists and then complain when they come down to earth and act like regular people.
        Yes, Karolyn, per you: “horro”; “jelous”; “michelle”
        Karolyn, Isn’t the English your first/native and unique language?

        Karolyn wrote: “People like you talk of elitists and then complain when they come down to earth”.
        Karolyn, my complaint is that these two revoltingly disgust creatures “came down to earth” from the HELL and they do NOT “act like regular people” They act like Demons.
        But any way, to talk to you is the same like to talk to wall.

        King Solomon is right by advising: “Do not speak in the hearing of the fools like liberal Karolyn, for SHE DESPISES THE KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM and COMMON SENSE.”

        P.S. Karolyn, if you find misspelling or grammar errors in my comments, please indicate them. You know, that my English is “English as a third language” Thanks in advance.

        “WISE men speak because they have something to say; FOOLS because they want to say something.” – ascribed to Plato.

        I agree with Plato.

        • macgyver1948

          Alondra… WOW… Leave it to the programmed minds to point out the trivial points, such as spelling in these kinds of fast venues, as a diversion to avoid the substance. I wonder if King Solomon would laugh at how you misuse his quotes. I really want to tell you to stay out of my bible since you misuse it as you reinterpret the scriptures within it but I doubt you will care how you distort.

          As for your Plato’s quote… I have always seen you like to “say something”, anything.. I agree with Plato too in your case.

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            I am sure there is an interesting story behind Alondra. Something has happened to the people on this board like Alondra, Matrix and Samurai that set them on a path of distain and hate, yet they latch on to the Bible for salvation more for other people than them selves and they need salvation the most.

            Fact is always stranger that fiction and some of the people on this site push the limits of human nature, they never fails to intrigue me.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… It is funny how different people read the same bibles and get different meanings out of the same scriptures. They see what they want to see in the scriptures and they just know all who do not agree with them have to be wrong because the scriptures are speaking directly to them. The same mentality is in with their politics. Sad but that is the stranger fact then there is in fiction concerning this.

          • tony newbill

            MACGYVER1948 , FOLLOWING THE CONSTITUTION CLEARS ALL THIS UP !!!!!

          • macgyver1948

            tony newbill… I am very much for the Constitution. I even want the Second Amendment to stand strong but with practical common sense applications – we do not need military weapons in all or homes. The US Constitution was created for us to protect us from government and not the other way around. I am so much for it that when some so called representatives weakens it those someones should be tried for treason. For example, when little bush and Homeland Security weakened the Constitution with listening into any and all phone conversations without a warrant I feel they should be living as inmates in Ft Leavenworth, KS.

            Go prove Obama is violating the Constitution and get him that way. Go prove he wasn’t born in Hawaii. Until you can prove it let him do his job instead of blocking any progress he tries for as it is often done by your elected side. Your side has hated him since they knew we was a viable Dem Candidate even against Hilary, even before they knew his policies. Could that hate be because he has black blood in him or because your side knew he wasn’t going to work exclusively for the very wealthy and the big corporations? Could it be because they knew he wouldn’t sign those binding no way out pledges enforcing with “… Romney will do as he is told” when elected president as Norquist said of his presidential GOP candidate?

            Grow your hate for Obama if you like but at least try to make it yours and not from what you are programmed.

            Thanks for YELLING at me this time tony.

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            debate with Tony is Kind of like beating you head against a rock until you draw blood?

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… yeah, I see that, he is a “not see other side” kind of guy even though he doesn’t have to agree. But I enjoy some of his arguments and the links he offers even if I do not agree much of the time.

          • tony newbill

            BOB666 Why we need ‘death panels’ …. wow what a solution , sacrifice a Person’s right to choice liberty up to the point of the Individuals death to allow Government to have the Official Final say in restricting the use of what a Individual pays into a Collective Government system for the later years of that Individuals Life , this seems Illegal and criminal .

            I thought this was not even in the debate that it was all a GOP made up lie about the Obamacare debate ?

            and what about the JOBS … why is it ok to stimulate the infrastructure to create JOBS but when it comes to the GOLDEN YEARS of a PERSONS Life and those dollars they paid into the system are then Government restricted use , why is it that this type of Policy is the choice made for the individual instead of those dollars that a person paid into the system are allowed to be used until they are gone and then that be what determines the cost of healthcare , ??

            A healthcare system if priced in true amount of dollars paid in by a Individual were to be accounted for by the Market would price the stocks based off Real cash estimates of what a person will pay into the system and that should set the price for healthcare and put a cap on its cost increases . So why is this not not the way the healthcare costs are structured ??????

            http://money.msn.com/investing/why-we-need-death-panels

          • macgyver1948

            tony… Who is doing the “Death Panel” thing? There is no evidence of Death Panels here except in the hearts and minds of the Right who are creating and defining the existence of them. I have to laugh when I hear the Right talk of these panels because what else can I do being a Jew and knowing the Nazis did that thing so well in their concentration death camps. So again I ask “Who is doing the “Death Panel” thing?”. Anything to malign the Dems and Obama, HUH? How did the connection of what a person has earned and deserves in his/her later years come into being with Death Panels?

            Propaganda is a wonderful tool, isn’t it Tony? Hitler did it so well to put down his oppositions. A lot of what Hitler said was either a total lie or very exaggerated, the tools of good propaganda. I guess some here have learned very well the tactics of that evil demented Nazi and not just in his use of propaganda. But then Nazism itself is evil. :-).

          • tony newbill

            Macgyver1948 the article I posted for you to read is by a Liberal Progressive economist that is a avid obama supporter and is promoting the use of Death Panels as a solution to the Economic situation of the entitlement system instead of durable Growth and capital expansion that generates increased revenues to pay for entitlements as these programs were designed to operate !!! Problem is with a ZERO growth Environmentalist Marxist Ideology thats strung out with Fear of Overpopulation in the world they are coming up with the Death panel as the solution to the overall problem and however Obama tries to Position himself , he cannot dent these are his supporters !!!!!! Try and wrap your mind around this Please !!!!

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… I read your article and I told you I thought it was interesting… The term Death Panels carries a certain stigma with it and that is what I do not see…

          • tony newbill

            Macgyver1948 are you trying to ” Sweeten ” the Medicine up so it goes down better ????

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            Of course there are no death panels except in the overly vivid imaginations of Obama haters. But the notion came from the fact that in the Affordable Care Act doctors are urged to discuss end of life decisions with elderly patients. This would include urging patients to have have wills in place and such like which is totally reasonable. The tea baggers did a number on the idea however and came out with something weird.

          • tony newbill

            Robbiefine the guy that wrote this latest article is a avid Obama supporter and is making the case for the need to end life quicker to effect the balance sheet of entitlements in the MSN article !!!!! Bill gates does the same thing and he even recently said Obama needs More POWER to usurp Congress so you need to wise up on this issue a bit !!!

          • macgyver1948

            robbiefine … I know that ObamaCare is a source of the BS for the Death Panels but they love to run with whatever hurts Obama and it doesn’t have to be even close to true… Isn’t life grand when they can just make up or edit the definitions and facts as they go along? It makes it so much easier to speak of their opponent and convince the troops..

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac & Tony,

            The term “death panel” is a fear tactic that was used to describe the rationing of health care that might happen as a result of age or over-all health by those opposed to the affordable care act.

            What is the difference between a “death panel” with the Government and an HMO or PPO nurse who doles out medical resources to make a profit?

          • tony newbill

            BOB666 the better question should be regarding why the supply-side system is NOT BEING ALLOWED to Price healthcare in true economic cost and profit analysis should be how we frame this debate about how to reduce the cost of healthcare .

            So why is it that the market for healthcare costs are NOT priced on the simple math of how much people are paying into the entitlement programs for when they are allowed to access those funds in the retirement years ?????

            This would be a simple accounting procedure that would price the markets liquity and then place a cap on what procedures a hospital , doctor and staff costs should be , so why is this not the way the market determines the cost of healthcare like any stock is valued based on its market Cap ???????

          • Bob666

            Tony,
            Please don’t take offense to this, but you realty are wrapped up in the propaganda. While you do make some very valid points, I would ask you to answer a couple of questions:

            How many companies in the “health care” industry have filed chapter 11 or chapter 7?

            How many lobbyist do you believe the “health care” industry” have in the beltway?

            What kind of profit margin do you believe the “health care” industry” has in comparison to all other industries operating I this country?

            Here is my point:

            Remember when all of those commercials were running against “Obama Care”? I heard numbers of over a billion spent by the “health care” industry” to derail Obama Care. Those corporations never missed a beat on earnings in that period of time.

            I love the free market as it has provided an opportunity for me to make a very good living, but the “health care” industry” doe not operate under the free market-It never has.

            While I don’t agree with all the affordable health care act has, Make changes to it. To make a change at this point would be a turn backwards.

          • tony newbill

            BOB666 there needs to be an investigation into those congressional leaders who take lobbyists influence regardless of what form that allows the Healthcare Industry to prices its costs higher than what is paid into the Insurances that cover peoples needed treatments !!!! Find them Expose them and VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE and tell whoever runs in place of them they will receive the same treatment in both healthcare coverage and being voted out of power if they abuse their liberty to represent the peoples republic !!!!!!

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… Take your suggestion further. We need to punish all representatives, elected or appointed, who go with lobbyists demands over our needs. I think those in Government who go with the lobbyists, in effect what the corporations want, over our needs is a form of treason. It is an abuse of power in my opinion. That is my liberal stance and I am sticking with it, LOL…

          • tony newbill

            and BOB666 This should be a accounting method for the insurance premiums paid into the system to that would cap healthcare cost in line with whats Paid into the Insurance system by the policy holders , so why is that this is not factored into the way the Industry priced treatments ????

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… My concern is the stigma that goes with the term Death Panel. It is a scare tactic, I agree and I do not see a literal translation of the term but it is used as though it is there by the Right.

          • tony newbill

            Macgyver1948 Shape Shifting the phrase to make it more acceptable is what then this article is trying to accomplish then is that what you are parsing here ????

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… There is so much coming out of the Right that bothers me and even the stigma of things can be concerning. I understood what you said about the article and the left leaning writer of it. I bet I wasn’t the only one who understood you. It is just sad, and often scary as well, all the BS we hear from all sides. But I like the “Shape Shifting” reference, I was a fan of the shape shifter character on Star Trek, Deep Space Nine. :-).

          • Jeff

            I think it’s time Tony made the acquaintance of Elaine. It’d be a match made in heaven. Maybe you can introduce them at Elaine’s Seder – I assume you’re going?

            I don’t know where he’s coming from most of the time. He likes to criticize Obama – mostly from the right, but he’ll do it from the left when he can. His position is that any possible negative outcome of an Obama policy that Glenn Beck can identify while high on drugs is definitely Obama’s intention. He writes a bit more coherently than most of the wingnuts here, but the sentiment is no different. He opposes Obama because Obama is “evil.” Meanwhile, he has nothing much to say about Dick Cheney. Go figure.

          • tony newbill

            Jeff says , ” He likes to criticize Obama ” , if its to hot in the kitchen get out of the way of democracy please !!!

          • Jeff

            Typical. You have edited what I said so its meaning is completely changed. I said you criticize Obama, generally from the right but also from the left if you can manage it. You criticize Obama for things you’d probably applaud if done by a Repug.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… you must really either hate Tony, and I do not think that is the case exactly, or you want more drama, but I wouldn’t wish Elaine on anyone. I would commit suicide if I found myself married to her even as a frat prank. Lol.

            Oh, and I noticed,,, :-)

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            People who spread this BS about so-called death panels are simply nuts. I even had one young American woman tell me that every, EVERY, person over 65 was going to be killed by President Obama HIMSELF. You read that correctly. I gave her the chance to retract or change that comment but she held to it: President Obama was going to kill everyone over age 65. This right wing tea party crap is often funny but it is also very scary.

          • tony newbill

            Robbiefine common man tea party crap . The guy that wrote the article is a Liberal Progressive Obama supporter on MSN , stop the skewing of the facts here please !!!!!!

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            I wasn’t commenting on the article. I was commenting on what my own red neck daughter-in-law living in New York State told me. And that is factual.

          • macgyver1948

            robbiefine … This is nuts as you share “I even had one young American woman tell me that every, EVERY, person over 65 was going to be killed by President Obama HIMSELF. You read that correctly”.

            I know I read that correctly, I can read and I see this kind of BS so often. But it is so sad because that is so often typical of what comes out of the Right. It is the nutzy Right’s propaganda machine as its finest. And people actually fall for it and we are told our eyes are closed if we do not agree with their nonsense. This is what I mean by the stigma that goes along with words such as “Death Panels”. Well, for those who believe from what their programmers say believe Obama is Hitler reincarnated so it should not be so surprising that they would pass long the propaganda from them as well.

            If you didn’t know there was a picture of President and Mrs Obama going around the Internet showing them pledging to the flag with their left hands over their hearts so very much proving they are commies for doing so. Can you imagine how many on the right believed this? It came out the this was an ok Photo Shop job but it very much shows how easily hate can blind people. A sadder part still is that so many who believe this BS and pass it along are supposedly good Christian people.

            President Obama is going to be a hugely busy man as he goes around personally murdering all those over the age of 65. How will he also find the time to do his Hitler or Satan speeches and other work? LOL

            You got that so Right with “This right wing tea party crap is often funny but it is also very scary”. I wonder if you really know how right you are. This Tea Party is a cancer on Americanism and Liberty. Hitler used the same kind of tactics to defame his enemies and Tea learned so well from him. Reminds me of the expression “Birds of a feather lie together”. Well, my paraphrasing anyway.

      • Karolyn

        Alondra – Too bad you can’t use all that intelligence and knowledge to perpetuate love rather than fear and hatred.

        • Bob666

          Yo Karolyn,
          That is who Alondra Is, full of hate and rage. To expect anything else would be unreasonable. Pigs and Swine, like peas and carrots.

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Karolyn, It’s too bad that each time you are exposing your lack of common sense and silliness and your unwillingness to educate yourself. And I have to indicate that you are the least adequate person to talk about love.

        What is left for you is parroting your libtardic mantras.

        P.S. Do not forget to check my spelling and grammar.

      • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

        It seems as if the great one has something to say..,” But feminists like Karolyn and Sandra Fluke like this expression of vulgarity.”

        I wonder how he knows such things about two women that he has never met? I didn’t know they were feminists, I do know the are both females and he is not. But then, perhaps I assume too much.

        What are these “expressions of vulgarity” ~ This sound all very ~~~ subjective , if you ask me. So who is this subject? Clearly someone that resents personal freedom and liberty for others while enjoying it for himself.

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        “Yo moron” @9:49 pm
        “the Freemason of the 13 generation out of 14”, you can’t stop your diarrhea. Do not forget to change your Panty regularly and frequently, evil boy.

        • Bob666

          Yo Swinefeaver,
          “Do not forget to change your Panty regularly and frequently, evil boy”

          As Ronald Regan once said, there you go again. You really seem to be obsessed with other people’s body parts and sexuality. What is it like to be a repressed Obama Girl incased n 300 pounds of cellulite?

          And that is Mr. Evil Boy to you. BTW, we bring people like you here to clean up-not mess up.

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        DeerInTheMurkyWater: “I didn’t know they were feminists, I do know the are both females and he is not.”

        Deer in the Murky Water, it’s an interesting observation. So do you think that she is he?
        http://theblacksphere.net/2013/03/first-lady-pole-dancing/

        Yep, you’re right, she/he looks more like “he”. But we were told that “he” is “she”
        Well, she/he is with the chimps’ manners, so it’s too hard to say who she/he is in reality.

        Deer in the Murky Water, the sources told me that he/she is covering under her/his bangs the beast’s sign “666”. What you say?

        Deer in the Murky Water, “Clearly someone that resents personal freedom and liberty for others while enjoying it for himself”

        I agree with you. Who the hell she/he is to tell us what we have to eat, to INFRINGED on the People’s Rights TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, to enforce their debauchery on the American People and Children, to constantly LIE, to rob from hard working People?

        “Wickedness proceeds from the wicked.” (I Samuel)

        “Woe to those who CALL EVIL GOOD, AND GOOD EVIL; Who put DARKNESS FOR LIGHT, AND LIGHT FOR DARKNESS; Who put BITTER FOR SWEET, AND SWEET FOR BITTER!” (Isaiah 5)

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        “Yo moron” @11:29pm
        “Freemason of the 13 generation out of 14”, did you change your Panty before to go to bed?

        As Ronald Regan once said, there you go again. Do NOT blame others for your perversion. I understand your desperation. Your master jeffry left you so you united with the Karolyn’s 300 pounds of cellulite. Mentally you fit one another.

        BTW, people like us working and build our businesses. People like us will help to Tea Partier to clean-up the liberal chaos. So, do not mess up.

        P.S. My total weight 137 pounds/5’4’’. Regular health club and regular massage. I build my business, I earned my money. And now I enjoy the life.

        Good luck in your evil and stupidity masturbation, swine head and donkey ass.

        • Bob666

          Yo Porkfest
          “P.S. My total weight 137 pounds/5’4’’. Regular health club and regular massage. I build my business, I earned my money. And now I enjoy the life”

          I am at 5’11″ and 200 pounds and sold the business that I built (but consult for them 30 hours a week to stay active). I earned my money as well and I was a major job provider with and average salary in my workforce of about $43K/year.

          So are we having a pissing match for some reason? the bottom line is; you are still a mean hateful woman who spews discontent with every post. You are obsessed with the sexuality of everyone you interact with show no respect what so ever to people.

          I would suggest that you go back read the bible again as you missed quite a bit. If Jesus came back today, He would probably slap you into the next coming.

      • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

        oh ! this is fun! ~

        I’m 65 , 6′ 2″ 220 lbs, with a 34” waist and a 37″ reach. ~ I rarely work out , as my job takes me to high places, scaling building, ladders, cat walks and high scaffolding loaded down like a pack mule and it keeps me fit and focused enough to drink whiskey, tequila and beer and still fight off large frisky women 2/3rd my age and 3/4 quarter my size.with one hand.

        My tiny empire is all paid for ~ and I’m currently holding a $67.18 water bill. (seems high)

        I know this is a unique condition and position that I find myself in and I know it will not last. I do not encourage anyone to judge other by their own good health or good fortune ~ as I’ve seen it change in a single heartbeat many times. As last week I paid my final respect to a 38 year old nurse friend that had everything one could buy ~ that has a massive heart attack while giving her two year son his nightly bath. ~ “Mommy is asleep in bathroom” the little naked boy says.

        Be humble , be grateful and enjoy your moments , that’s the only way the are offered to you.

        Having ignored my chance to marry rich three times or die young 6 times ~ I’m still here, ~ lucky me. I get to pay more taxes, drink more whisky and play hide the sausage with more frisky women.

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    Change? Become a party that consists of a lot of Ron and Rand Pauls. That’s the change we need. Ron Paul won just every debate he participated in. The godless socialist media ignored him and republicans that are borderline predators listened to them. Change? That Prebius is a socialist posing as a God fearing Republican American. Is his way the way that Christ addressed issues? Look what He and 12 others did to the world. Being in a room with Prebius would be like being in a room of the Athenian senators and anyone familiar with Ahenian history knows what I’m talking about. He’s a mad bomber in the Republican midst.

    All that we have to do is stick a copy of the bible and the constitution in our pockets. They bring us all down to equal with everybody else. Prebius? His goal is to be the snake in the grass telling the mouse “Come, let the two of us become one”. True, there are no principals unique to the Republicans but that can change by bringing the American principals back in and guit trying to change society by being like society. We were unique and respected throughout the world and in that regard we were different than the world. There was a time you couldn’t judge an American the way you would judge anybody else. Now? If it wasn’t that might makes right in our politicians we’d be at war already with God knows who. Prebius? Take him and his followers and tar and feather them and run out of our DC on a rail. I’ve traveled in Europe and the Mid East and I can tell you this. Americans are treated with suspicion and hate. I’ve had to prove myself to everyone I’ve worked with and played with and that’s not American.

    • NVRAT

      You just may be right CA. No one else make much sense in the Republican Party except the Paul`s and Cruz. Maybe Rand can make a difference if he stays away from his father and continues to make his own judgements. The press and every socialcrat will try to compare Rand with his father and that would be his demise because the Washington elites both Republicans and Democrats will try to crucify him at every turn. Rand must take them to task publicly and call them what they are and show people how they work and play, what needs to happen in DC and why we need to stay the Constitutional course. He also needs to challenge the media and both party`s. It will be humungous task but, I will support him.

      • James

        Rand Paul – okay

        Cruz – not very bright and not familiar with reality – basic nut job

  • DavidL

    Republicans who claim to be fiscal conservatives believe the answer to their “problems” is to spend more money. Pathetic irony at its best. Enjoy the wilderness.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

      DavidL: Republicans who claim to be fiscal conservatives believe the answer to their “problems” is to spend more money.

      it’s a “belief” cherished by both parties, David. Duh!

  • Jeff

    Chip:

    I’m pretty sure I saw you and Saxby Chambliss pictured in Webster’s under “narrow-minded, bigoted, stuffy old white guys.” I mean a party led by John Boehner and Mitch McConnell? I would think that conclusion would be self-evident. Like spending $10 million to find out Romney was not likable because he comes across as a rich, arrogant prick primarily interested in eliminating his already low tax rate. You guys are who you are. Please don’t change. You should be preserved in amber like Joe McCarthy and Strom Thurmond.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

      Jeff, you have the pernicious habit of always condemning yourself…why do you persist in such defeatist-behaviour?

      • TIME

        Dear Jay,

        Perhaps its just the bad scripts Jeff gets each morning, after all they are just standard scripts for the slow witted paid shill.

        Peace and Love, Shalom

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Jeffry wrote: “I’m pretty sure I saw you and Saxby Chambliss pictured in Webster’s under ‘narrow-minded, bigoted, stuffy old white guys.’”

        And I am pretty SURE I’m seeing Jeffry and his Korrupt Kenyan Kriminal in Webster’s under ‘EVIL minded, satanic, malodourous whitey/negros’ are leading the destruction of the American values and heritage – Bill of Rights, Constitution, kicking the TRUE God from their platform and replacing Him with their god Satan – the Deceiver, and follow the gospel of their apostles Alinsky and Karl Marx, who like the Kenyan FRAUD used multiple names and
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GqPR3yTnYFs

        “Karl Marx COULD NEVER HOLD DOWN A REAL STABLE SALARIED JOB, he was utterly EGO-CENTRIC and oblivious to the plights of his poor wife and children, he lived off donations from his faithful friend Engels for most of his life.”

        The same with the KKK (Korrupt Kenyan Kriminal) and FRAUD. He COULD NEVER HOLD DOWN A REAL STABLE JOB, he is utterly EGO-CENTRIC and obliviously lived on his communist and islamist friends donations and thefts, which he perpetrated by using his forged IDs, multiple SS# and multiple names.

        ALL documents that the Kenyan FRAUD has presented to the public are FORGED.
        But “For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.” – Jesus Christ

        And we know what will happen to Satan aka Devil and his followers like Jeffry, Karolyn, “the Freemason of the 13 generation out of 14” bobby, jopa/Ass, mark, rbt and others:

        “Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the FIERY LAKE of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the FALSE PROPHET. There THEY WILL BE TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER…15And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:10, 15)

        “COWARDS, UNBELIEVERS, the CORRUPT, MURDERERS, the IMMORAL, those who practice witchcraft, IDOL (o’homobama) WORSHIPERS, and ALL LIARS—their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.” (Revelation 21:8)

        But now we are witnessing that “the DEVIL HAS COME DOWN to us, having great wrath, because HE KNOWS THAT HE HAS A SHORT TIME.” (Revelation 12:12)

        Satan is furious, because he knows his days are counted, therefore he “walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” (1Peter)

        So “be sober and be vigilant.” (1Peter)

        Learn the Truth, because when “you will know the truth, the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32)

        “Great is TRUTH, and mighty above all things.” (2Ezdra 4:41)
        “The truth is great and shall prevail”

        • macgyver1948

          WOW…This is really funny, LOL

        • Bob666

          So says the Pig, The Pig has spoken.

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        “As a dog returns to his own vomit, so a mentally PERVERT and sexually DEPRAVED satanic slave bobby REPEATS HIS psychosis.” – King Solomon

        Enough said.

        • Bob666

          Long live the pig, we need the Humor.

      • Karolyn

        Too many people take themselves too damn seriously! How sad to have to live with so much anger and hatred. :-(

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Liberal “diva” Karolyn, continuing to parroting her libtardic mantras, because her two cells twisted into the pretzel brain is running out of the Grey Matter, and can’t process the reality and just repeating her incoherent nonsense.

        Karolyn, It explains your extreme lamebrainess.

        You NEVER proved my “anger” and “hate”. I got it long ago that on your libtardic PC language (it’s your second language) the unveiling and exposure of your libtard stupidity means “anger” and “hate”. It does NOT work.

        And many statistics prove that SINGLE overweight females who never were married and do not have children are ENVIOUS, JEALOUS, STUPID and ANGRY. And I know this FACT first-hand from my work with unhappy people.

        Married women with children and grandchildren are much, much happier.

        But, yes, I am a HATER of the STUPIDY, especially DELIBERATE & METHODICAL Stupidity and Idiocy

        My understanding is that your STUPIDITY makes you happy. So, Karolyn, good luck in your nonsensical STUPIDITY.

    • Texas Ride

      Jeff, you are right! All the conservative idealists, the rich, the talented, the producers, the religious, the bad corporations, the prosperous businesses and their owner are all pricks and we should be gotten rid of, right now!

      As punishment for us “misfits” we should be rounded-up and sent to the Southern part of this country, the home of conservativism. That should be enough punishment for us. Cut us off from all your glorious liberal minds and the benefits of socialism, marxism and all the other of your “isms.” By the way, we will take all our money with us.

      You can rule your part of the country and raise taxes in your part of the country all you want. You liberals can increase the amount of the “hand-outs” you want for your, “low renters.” At the same time, we will lower taxes, pass legislation that will boost the economy in our part, and decrease welfare (we will expect people to work.) This would reinforce the difference in the two idealogies to all. Just think, it would be a perfect way to prove the superiority of your ideology! And, the conservatives could “suffer” from theirs.

      • TIME

        Dear Texas,

        You just made my day. Thanks Dude..

        Peace and Love Shalom

      • Jeff

        TDM:

        Don’t we already have that system? Except it’s the North that supports the South. The rednecks love to complain about how intrusive the government is, but it is primarily in the South that we find the recipients of government largesse. .

  • dan

    GOP is dead

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

      If only that were so…but the execution of (both) via “firing-squad” would be a dream come true!

  • Native Blood

    Wanna bring meaningful change to the Republican party? That has already happened.
    The party has rendered itself irrelevant by trying to be something more like Democrats and that will now work. First, the RNC needs to disband itself…They are part of the problem. Republicans who associate themselves with any lobbyists need to step down right now because they are corrupt. Next, the party needs to purged of all RINOs, NEOCONS, and zionists. Finally, AIPAC and other Isreali lobby and think tanks need to get their business relocated back to Tel-Aviv where they belong and join the rest of Mosaad. The republicans have lost their way and they have become something else that is too far left wing and the mentality that hispanics will support them because they were given amnesty is just plain lunacy. A bunch of sick puppies that need purging now! The GOP of today is the main reason I have gone libertarian.

    Semper paratus
    high angle hell

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

      Native Blood: Republicans who associate themselves with any lobbyists need to step down right now because they are corrupt.

      I agree in principal…however, your sentiment is unrealistic, since both parties desperately need tons of cash for campaigns, and they both get their money from the same sources.

      • macgyver1948

        WTS/JAYS …Yep, I bet most will agree that lobbyists are the most corrupting force infecting our government for both the elected and appointed officials. But the fact is the lobbyists are extensions of the corporations and they our Founders very much warned us about. Thomas Jefferson, for one, was most fearful of the corporations and that is the government/corporate connection we must sever.

        It is also a fact, as you say “both parties desperately need tons of cash for campaigns” and that is where the dilemma lies. These donations are really investments on the part of the big money and they expect huge dividends. No returns (no doing as we tell you), no money next time. So, who are our representatives, the elected and appointed, really representing? It ain’t us. In effect we have had the ongoing makings of a masked Plutocracy but the more our representatives work for the corporations instead of us, as so many are, and other big money people, the less the need for the masks on the part of the representatives. We see it so much with the no way out pledges that so many Congress people have signed, in effect against us – over 270 GOP alone.

        We have to outlaw the mis-loyalties and and we need to get rid of those in government who are not working for their constituents, us basically. The question is why do we continue to reelect the same or same kinds of people? How do they get elected if they do not sell themselves to the highest paying investors? This is our dilemma.

    • Jeff

      Perhaps you should consider limiting your activities to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas where such bigoted sentiments are apparently welcomed. If the Repugs take your advice, those are about the only states in which they will win elections.

      • macgyver1948

        Jeff… I do not get it when I see people say things such as “Wanna bring meaningful change to the Republican party? That has already happened. The party has rendered itself irrelevant by trying to be something more like Democrats…”. There are similarities, after they are all politicians, but the biggest obvious difference is the GOP is so much exclusively in business for the benefit and protection of the Big Corporations and the very wealthy, the Dems are at least trying to show they are for all of us and for the benefit of the country.

        I believe it is true. The very wealthy and the big corporations are just having too many financial problems (the poor misfortunate wealthy people who need their welfare and big tax relief) and the middle class and poor have way to much access to help where they need it, as well as not paying their fair share in taxes, so these things have to change. Jeff, didn’t I just sound like a GOP, owned by the TP, politician and their supporters? LOL…

  • Stephan F

    All this gnashing of teeth about what the Repub party should or shouldn’t do has become completely academic and utterly pointless. The main reason is not because of the election losses in 2012, or even the fact that republican party is irrelevant, which it certainly now is.

    No, it’s because of the simply reality that most people in the country (that means more than 50%, for those of you in Calif) have evolved into rent-seeking parasites. In other words most people now believe it is moral and righteous(!) to receive “something for nothing.”

    As a result of this (im)moral revolution, the statists now command a super-majority of the electorate, and I’m afraid we’re in for a very long & tiring journey down the road to “gentle fascism” we find ourselves on today (can you say “A lifetime”). Those strange folks with the perpetual deer-in-the-headlight look, namely democrats, will hold the reigns of power at all levels of govt indefinitely (sorry about that optimists). The dems will retake the “House” in 2014 (they can have it), and will not relinquish the presidency or congress during my children’s lifetimes. Yes friends, welcome to the new reality, and you better get used to it.

  • http://PLD FRENCHIE

    WTF IS WRONG WITH REINCE PRIEBUS ? WELL, BESIDES THE FACT THAT HE’S PART OF THE RINO PROBLEM. FACT IS, IF THEY’D START GIVING US PEOPLE THAT STAND FOR THE CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES OF THE PARTY’S BASE, THEY WOULDN’T NEED A “MAKEOVER”. I MEAN REALLY, McCAIN IN ’08, ROMNEY IN ’12….WTF DID THEY EXPECT WOULD HAPPEN ? YOU SIMPLY CAN’T WIN WHEN THE CONSERVATIVE BASE IS SICK OF HAVING TO VOTE FOR RINO’S. I’M NOT HAPPY THAT A LOT OF TRUE CONSERVATIVES STAYED HOME ON ELECTION DAY (I DIDN’T), BUT I CAN UNDERSTAND IT ENTIRELY. PLAINLY PUT, YOU CAN’T WIN BY CAPITULATION & THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT PREIBUS IS TALKING ABOUT DOING HERE. INSTEAD, GIVE US A STRONG CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE WHO WILL STAND & FIGHT FOR OUR VALUES WITHOUT FLINCHING OR GIVING IN TO THE LIBTARDS’ B.S. . ALL THIS FEEL-GOOD “OUTREACH” CRAP IS GOING TO ACCOMPLISH IS A WASTE OF $10 MILLION THAT COULD BE PUT TO BETTER USE BACKING A TRUE CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATE IN 2016 !!! IT JUST PI$$ES ME OFF THAT OUR (SUPPOSED) “LEADERSHIP” IS TOO BLIND AND/OR STUPID TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS THE PROBLEM, NOT OUR MESSAGE & BELIEFS. IF THIS CRAP KEEPS UP, I’M NEVER VOTING REPUBLICAN AGAIN, I’M GOING LIBERTARIAN & NOT LOOKING BACK !!! AT LEAST LIBERTARIANS HAVE CONSERVATIVE VALUES, RESPECT THE CONSTITUTION, & HAVE COMMON SENSE ABOUT THEMSELVES, WHICH IS A HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY FOR THE RNC AT THIS POINT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Jeff

      Reince Priebus is a performance artist doing a really bad impersonation of Truman Capote. When he talked about the Repugs’ “War on Caterpillars” – pure gold. I hope the Repugs keep this guy around as spokesman for a long, long time.

  • tony newbill

    Republicans have become Plutocrats only focusing on the rich wealthy and resourcing controlling factions and these whores of Politicians can be Bought and are Buying through Lobbying either parties favors .

    Democrats have become socialists with communist marxist tendencies you can see it in the factions that support the Democrats , like those who want the handouts and those who want to lock up the environment and oppress people from stepping one foot on the eco system let alone have a developing and growing expansion of supply and a wealth creation process from it that self reliant societies prosper and provide a community with . This is history in the process of repeating itself .

    • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

      Well, there element of truth in your post Tony ~ but just how many people are expecting “hand-outs” and who the might be is certainly open for Discussion. ~

      That our government has decided to refuse to allow banks to fail comes at a huge price to us all. For the 47 million on unemployment I would tend to think that it’s less a matter of wanting and more a matter of “needing” as they search for gainful employment. ~

      We have a gluten supply of labor and too few labor opportunities in this country today. And you are right! they do not want to be ignored just because they are smaller and appear less threatening then a major bank failure might prove to be. ~

      They could change that you know? ~ by storming the castle gates. But for now , ~ they wait rather calmly and hope for some improvement. ~~ While I assure you ~ this is not the life most of them ordered. ~ Who want’s to be poor? Who wants to see the most basic needs of their family go unfilled? ~ Who want to not have enough money in their pockets to cross town to look for a job? ~ I cost me 12.00 to 14.00 dollars every-time that I must cross town ~ I need to has a sound reason to do so. ~ when anyone gets down that far ~ life becomes very difficult.

      This notions of complacency and contentment created and bought by a government “hand-out” is a false notion except when it comes to Bankers.

    • Jeff

      Socialists? The Democrats are Plutocrats Lite. They still believe in the rich getting richer; they just aren’t as ready to sacrifice the poor and middle class to accomplish it. If you want to compare Obama to Marx or Lenin, go right ahead. Anyone with a functioning cerebrum knows that’s nutty.

      • macgyver1948

        Jeff… SO VERY CORRECT and compact. It is so right that “Socialists? The Democrats are Plutocrats Lite. They still believe in the rich getting richer; they just aren’t as ready to sacrifice the poor and middle class to accomplish it”. Very well abbreviative-ly (funny word and spelling I know) stated.

        I very much would love to be very wealthy but I wouldn’t take it from others to get there and I would pay my fair share. I have met so many Liberals over the years who feel this same way. Good showing of a difference between the two parties on your part Jeff.

        • tony newbill

          Macgyver1948 I don’t think you can determine what a Fair Share is with a GDP Stuck at 2 % and a Federal Reserve Goosing the GDP with a 85 Billion a Month Injection of DEBT CASH

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… So are you saying if a fair share cannot be determined we should all just give up? Just asking. Here is how I see an equitable fairness can be, just a thought.

            The private sector and the Free Market. From it we all can get what we can afford. You go into a store and you buy what you have money for. You go to car dealers and you buy the cars you want based on what you can afford. You want to own land you buy what you like based on what you can afford. You purchase the best insurance you can afford. Period.

            Now for the sake of humanity and compassion we see there are so many people who cannot afford health insurance and if we are better than our enemies, with compassion, we need to help and that is where the Public Sector can help but more wisely than we have been so far. Other wise we can be inhumanly UN-compassionate and allow those who cannot afford to go hungry, lose their housing, die earlier than otherwise from the elements or from treatable diseases. Isn’t that Right?

            The Public Sector. We citizens own the government so what we all get from it should be equal and fair based on what we are eligible for. No one should be able to get more from it than anyone else based on that “thing’s” say so of your eligibility. For example, if you are 26 and healthy you do not get Social Security. If you are 65 and you didn’t put enough into Social Security you do not get it. Medicare. If you are eligible by age, 65 for now, and you do not pay the monthly premium you do not get it, if you pay it monthly you do get it. These are just examples of “Fairness”.

            Now let’s get a little stickier with fairness. Since we all own the government it should be owned equally by all citizens. And unlike The private sector we should not get better value from our government just because we can afford to pay me. We never should get better value from the services of an elected official just because we have loads of bucks. In other words, the Senator should never provide Mercedes services, or favors, to the guy who pays him, through campaign contributions or whatever, while you and me can get only Chevy Nova services because we cannot afford to put money in that senator’s buckets. No group or groups, such as special interests should be able to either. The Senator should do only what is best for all equally and the taking of money, by our senator, for a better ‘car’ should be illegal.

            In other words I would like to see the end of lobbying all together if it s based on how much they can offer the “representative”. We should be wondering whose “representative” he/ she the senator is. I would want groups to send their representatives to Washington and speak with our representatives all there is time for but no money or special favors should be allowed. This is not the Free Market or the private sector we are talking about, we are talking about our government. We really can no longer allow big corporations, or other very wealthy entities, to own our “representatives”.

            If we do not move toward a fairness such as I am suggesting, with whatever tweaks reality suggests along the way, we will continue to have corruption rule as it has been.

            This is just domestic stuff. When it comes to how we interfere with foreign nations that is a whole other fairness thing. I feel we have to stop creating war and going for the oil or whatever else we want so we do not go on looking like the bad guys to the lands we invade but that is another story too.

            Well, these are my ideas of more fair ways for America. I did not suggest how to be fair “with a GDP Stuck at 2 % and a Federal Reserve Goosing the GDP with a 85 Billion a Month Injection of DEBT CASH” as you brought up. Only my personal economics is my thing and certainty nothing of this grand scale you are suggesting on fairness coming from me. My career was Computer Science with a good amount of finance thrown in to prove the ROI for the projects I was working on, not the economics. Let’s leave the grand scale of things to the experts but lets get better ones than we have now or at least those with ethics.

            By the way, the head of the Federal Reserve is a Republican picked by little bush so why are you surprised at anything he does? Could it be as with we Libs we look at what Obama does and we question what we may not be ok with? Many of us Libs do just that. :-)

          • tony newbill

            Bush turned out to be a RINO not a true Small Gov policy maker so whatever he did seems like too progressive for me . And the only way the fair share tax rate will work is if these same people are not allowed a Tax code that exempts them from paying income tax from a Market they are gaming and dumping product into tariff free and collecting the currency swap between the nations of trade .

            Greshams Law of the 14th Century is Killing us and our ability to be a self providing self reliant nation of working class citizens , that makes us not have to have a Big Government trying to provide for us our needs from foreign nations who we then have to police to secure those vital needs in this currency give away global market scheme that is further devaluing our way of life now since we lost our private sector credit subsidy that was creating the mask of economic sustainability until the cup run over with debt in 2008

          • Jeff

            Tax cuts, deregulation, and pre-emptive wars. Sounds just like McGovern to me!

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… Definition of ‘Gresham’s Law’
            A monetary principle stating that “bad money drives out good.” In currency valuation, Gresham’s Law states that if a new coin (“bad money”) is assigned the same face value as an older coin containing a higher amount of precious metal (“good money”), then the new coin will be used in circulation while the old coin will be hoarded and will disappear from circulation.

            I would agree with Gresham’s Law as a definition and for what is happening. I worked for the Federal Reserve Bank Of NY for several years and on our indoctrination tour, every nubie gets to go on one, they told us they have to destroy old money as they print new money. What is destroyed would equal what is newly printed in quantity (face value, not necessarily actual value). I remember thinking if the value of the new money was not equal to the value of what they are destroying then they were not keeping things equal if they do not print more new than what they destroy. We were told they try to print equal amounts. I saw something wrong with this then (if we consider something such as Gresham’s Law) and that was in the mid 70s.

            I was going through the MBA program at school then and in my finance classes we were told about this kind of law and how fiat or flat money has hurt societies in the past. I mentioned I took only the economics classes that were required for non eco majors so I didn’t get all about the eco as I might other wise but it sounded to me then we are screwing up if we print more money and that money is worth less just to make ends meet(?).

            Little bush, like his dad, was a liar and his lies, as with his dad’s, cost a lot of lives and for what? At least his dad’s gulf war was to help a nation friend, Kuwait (well we think that was the reason), but still dad lied to the Iraqi people and got over 100,000 of them murdered by Saddam just for believing him. You might remember there was some question of the Iraqi people’s trust in a Bush, any Bush, after 911. Enough of my I hate bush slants. Please do not put little bush in the same category as the progressives or Libs in general. I think he did a lot of what he was told to do. I do not think he was smart enough for the job and we should remember no president can be all knowing in all topics, even the ones with an IQ high enough, so it is really little bush’s advisers we should be angry with for all he screwed us with. But the “buck stops with the visible guy at the top.

            As for a fair tax code. Do they really want one or do they want one where mainly the wealthy can take advantage? Different things have been suggested over the years, such as flat tax but they wouldn’t come up with a fair percentage and how to handle the elimination of exemptions. Even the Capital Gains tax, nice at 13.999%, was dropped to that by little bush for his wealthy friends and himself. We can all take advantage of that small tax rate but the wealthier we are the more benefit we can achieve from it. Bush knew this. So what is the answer to a fair tax code if those who represent us aren’t coming up with one?

            By the way, if you have enough money to buy enough investments that work for you you will not have to work at a job and pay a payroll tax, a higher tax. Didn’t a recent Presidential candidate take advantage of that and not receive any salary since he supposedly disconnected himself from Bain until recently? Nice if you can afford to.

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            The trickle down BS has always never been anything other than BS. Provide a fair tax code and most of our problems get solved. Tax every man and woman at the same rate, and in this consumer driven economy, the fix happens. It is the middle class that consumes and when the middle class has spending power, the America economy runs well.

            limit deduction to maybe five to eight and it becomes a done deal

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… Trickle Down has always been a Republican ploy to help the wealthy keep as much money at their top as they can. TD gives them more in incentives (stuff which is supposed to be used to create jobs, invest in their company and grow – stuff like tax breaks) IF they were willing to share, you know, not greedy.

            The problem is the greedo for the execs, along with growth when they see fit, building the bottom line and protecting the corporate reputation at all costs, is to keep as much at the top and keep expenses down as much as possible (oh wait I left out a very important item, that is keeping the big share holders as happy as possible if they want their very lucrative exec contracts renewed and improved). For Example, payroll is a huge expense and it is the most controllable expense. So where is the incentive to create jobs, using those tax breaks from Trickle Down sources if they can do more with less? That is do more with less as long as it is not the execs who have to do any of the more. LOL… And, the execs can better do these things as they ‘get by with loads of help form their friends’, the politicians they have invested in. (I hope the Beatles do not get upset with how I edited their line for my use, LOL)

            So I do not like Trickle Down as it is practiced but it is a good idea in theory. It is just that pesky greed thing that gets in the way, just not enough is allowed to trickle down for it to do any good for the rest of us. You say Trickle Down is BS, I say it is “greedy rapola in practice”.

            Sorry for it big run on but it was fun. You go on to say “Tax every man and woman at the same rate, and in this consumer driven economy, the fix happens. It is the middle class that consumes and when the middle class has spending power, the America economy runs well.”

            Yes, thank you. It is the middle class primarily that drives the economy if they have enough of their income left to drive after paying rent and bills. For a long time I felt the Trickle Up would work so much better the the BS TD kind. If the middle class has enough extra income they can trickle it up at the stores for the TVs and the cars and the furniture and on and on. It will trickle up for the execs to play with and kiss the you know whats of the top share holders and the boards.

            I am not sure, not being so knowledgeable in economics, but I think a decent flat tax would be most fair if they can come up with the same right percentage for everyone along with totally leveling the playing field with deductions, maybe just do away with them but if not all at least so everyone can take advantage of the same ones, not just the ones that can be afforded. A thought. I always felt a charitable donation was an offering that comes from the heart and not one that is made for a givers personal benefit- gullible me. Sadly, if these are cut down greed would eliminate so many ”charitable donation”. Limiting deduction to a specific number, you suggest 8, would have to be studied and that might take time and testing but that can be done while the flat tax itself is incorporated. If Donald Trump and a Sam Walton kid pays 19% right off the top before anything else gets paid for them, for example, as everyone else does, I bet we can get back on track with so many government functions.

            I would love to see the Romneys and the Walton kids, with their huge ability to benefit from Capital Gains, pay the same tax percent as the guy who makes only $25,000 a year as his only income and again that has to be the first thing off the top of all incomes for everyone. I just wish they could figure out a good percentage for this flat tax that would both benefit the government greatly and not stress the least of the income earners.

            Just my thoughts on taxes. I bet the very wealthy and the corporations would not like my ideas and neither would the TPGOP. I think that not-liking by them is why we still have unfair tax structures.

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            I am not an economist, but took a bunch of classes in economics for degrees in Finance and an MBA. I took some courses in economics on a graduate level, but my wife reminded me about kids and over twenty years of school at night and the weekends.

            In short, I was told it was time to be a father and a husband and run the family business. That said, I have read a couple of white papers that propose a flat rate of 20% across the board for every tax payer and the four major deductions would be a primary mortgage, chartable including religious, healthcare including premiums and most real business expenses.

            Based on both of these, the revenue models would support GDP growth of 3% with employment at 94% and these models were developed in 2008, so the question is; would they work today? you would adjust the tax rate depending on how well the economy is functioning.

            One down side would be eliminating tax credits for the poor and while that sounds cold, the fact that one can earn a modest living and have almost no withholdings and get all of that and more back in a refund had always perplexed me. Personally, I believe we have the wrong incentives for poor people in this country.

            I am not an economist, but I have a pretty good understanding of basic math. The bottom lines is; when the middle class has purchasing power, our economy functions pretty well and this has been proven several times in my life time. 10 middle class families purchasing a new Chevy Impala provides far more positive economic impact than Mitt Romney purchasing a new Bentley and the proof is in very simple math.

            We live in a consumer driven economy and the middle class is the bulk of economic consumption. By the way, corporate tax rates would be structure the same.

          • tony newbill
          • macgyver1948

            Tony… By what stretch of the imagination does this yet unconfirmed story have anything to do with your Book of Revelations?

            I suppose if someone chooses to believe in the Book of Revelations and they do not like something happening today, or someone, and they allow their imagination, guided by their chosen belief and their not liking someone or something, they could imagine a connection if they so choose. WOW, that was a run on sentence, LOL…

            Boy that was an ugly pic of Hilary and I am ok with her.

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            Bob666 say; “I am not an economist, but I have a pretty good understanding of basic math. The bottom lines is; when the middle class has purchasing power, our economy functions pretty well and this has been proven several times in my life time. 10 middle class families purchasing a new Chevy Impala provides far more positive economic impact than Mitt Romney purchasing a new Bentley and the proof is in very simple math. ”

            I say, ~ It’s not “Rocket Surgery” ~ is it ~~ Bobby?

            The Mitt Romney’s and the Donald Trump’s of the world are a leaky bucket to place our hopes and dreams in.

          • Bob666

            Yo Deer,
            Like a sieve!

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… This proposal sounds good to me but I will leave it to the experts. So what has stopped the progress of this or any similar proposal? Remember I suggested a reason for that is “I bet the very wealthy and the corporations would not like my ideas and neither would the TPGOP. I think that not-liking by them is why we still have unfair tax structures”. Until we can get past what the minority of affluent in power want we will not get very far.

            I have a pretty good understanding of math too and I can figure out budgets for major corporate IT projects as well as my own. I didn’t like the business math I took in undergrad school because it didn’t make sense to me then in how it differed from what I called real math. But I made myself both like and understand it when I realized the business systems I designed needed that kind of math understanding as well as it does ‘real math’. This is how I can sense this kind of flat tax proposal sounds pretty good but I need to see the math within it. Even then I wouldn’t be totally sure and that is where we need politically uncommitted economists to do the thing. If we get Phd economists who side with one side or the other they might slant their math, how would we know? Anyway, as I say, I want fairness and total equity in the tax structure. I want more disposable income for all who have an income of some kind and in that we have a chance to get to where we can say life is fair. From what I have seen the concept of a flat tax can come close if it is done correctly.

            My thinking on poor people’s incentives is to leave it up to poor people to tell us what their incentives are, not for anyone to tell them.

            Yep, we do live in a consumer driven economy, or rather we should be, and we need the middle class to get back into the drivers seat. The wealthy and the corporations already have too much control on the economy and I would like it if our pattern of buying habits dictate what is offered to us and not the other way around. I am not all together happy with the corporations telling us what to buy by way of the choices they give us. For example I can’t believe what is called the designer piece of clothing as to what the buying public will want this coming season. We are stuck with their choices for us all too often.

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            Regarding a GOP Make over ~ an old War Horse can share many an “embarrassing moments” ~ if he chooses ~~ like the morning he’s awakes to find he’s crapped in the middle of some darling stain sheets ~ any head at that point is out of the question. ~ I really don’t think ~ we need to go there.

            So there is somethings ~ that is just not up for discussion, ~ can I get an A-men on that?

            This is the exception ~ and Thank God! not the norm. To find yourself “compromised” is not an “exclusive event” , while personal , for sure ~~

            It’s not like I called a 105 beehive round in on my own men and requested “fire for effect” ~ while the end results might be somewhat similar, I’ve developed a serious creditably problem among those that I depend.and have injured, dead and highly offended to contend with. .

            This is where the GOP is today ~ They have crapped all over themselves, shot themselves in the foot with their own gun. They limp about ,stinking to high heaven and blame the democrat’s!

            The GOP has a leadership problem, ~ and it won’t be solved by the leadership that is currently in place ~ as they refuses to confront and accept the responsibility for those most embarrassing moments. ~ while finding another girlfriend is not an option..

            Please overlook my crass “in your face” analogy ~ It not my intentions to offend ~but to communicate at a basic level and be understood. ~ “This ole GOP dawg ain’t gonna hunt” irregardless of how many times you sent him out. .

          • macgyver1948

            Deer… Well, the GOP, in the name of honesty, should change their nick name to Government Of The Corporate People. That is if they stand as chance of referring to themselves with honesty.

            I think it is very much as you say. But I see it as a betrayal to the rest of us for any of the GOP who sign no way out “do as we tell you to do or else” pledges as over 270 GOPers in Congress have done. It is as though they told Norquist, for example, that he has their sworn permission to pull their strings any way he wants. It is other controlling factors too such as Tea. I suppose the signers have no conscience as they offer total compliance. Who do the signors really represent in their rolls as our politicians?

            You bet the GOP has a leadership problem and we do too as long as they own the House. I see Cantor as a fraud and Boehner is, well, what is he besides the guy with the speakers gavel and a script to tell him what to do and say? Cheers to him.

            No excuses necessary Deer, we should speak as we choose but with respect and without insult and name calling. You are fine with your use of words. Besides, it is the exchange and shirring of ideas that should matter, not whose party we signed up with…

          • Jeff

            “GOP” and “honesty” in the same paragraph? Don’t think I’ve ever seen that before. At least not since Nixon. As for Boehner, I think the reason he always looks constipated is he has to ask Cantor for permission to go to the bathroom. If he has to get Nancy Pelosi to bail him out one more time, he may no longer be Speaker.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… I think you know my sarcasm by now. I too cannot not see GOP and honesty doing anything but canceling each other out, a kind of Yin-Yang effect.

            Ah yes, the dynamic duo, Cantor and bonehead. It is also funny to see Nancy Pelosi and Boehner in the same sentence especially in how you are doing it here.

            Wow, you suggest honesty with Nixon “I AM NOT A CROOK”. Lol

          • tony newbill

            LOL LOL LOL He Said it was NOT a TAX before it was FORCED down the PEEP HOLES of the WEEPLES , and then He said Nothing and Dictated to the Supreme court to say it was a TAX and then OH its just the BEAUTY of TYRANNY ain’t it ????????

            I will say Obama has the Most Beautiful way of Conning !!!!!!

            Ol Bush was a Loser when it came to Trying to be convincing

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… Yeah, you are right, little bush is a loser. He lost the popular vote in his first Presidential run but he took it anyway. I don’t know why Obama said Ocare wouldn’t have some kind of tax in it. it had to be funded some how but at least he is trying for us, not like that puppet Mitt would be if, God forbid,,,

          • tony newbill

            Separate the People from their Money and see what that does to the European Union and the USA Federal Reserve dollar as worlds trade currency as this plays out the people will surely except the Offer that will come from Chinasia BRICS when they come offering a New Trade currency for them to Ditch the Dollar as the settlement currency in the EUROZONE !!!! Get ready to see this Crater the Dollar as worlds trade currency and then your quality of life will be REDUCED to #rd world Status , just as is Planned !!!!

            http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/uk-eurogroup-cyprus-dijsselbloem-idUKBRE92O0IL20130325

          • tony newbill

            And once the Collective economy is brought on-line through the collapse of Capitalism the end of this year you will conform or go straight to a Reeducation Camp .

            http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/obamas-race-to-the-top-agenda-part-2-2/

          • Jeff

            What collapse of capitalism? You mean the near-miss in 2008 due to non-regulation of the banks? And what do the Repugs want to do about it? Nothing. Except maybe deregulate a little more. And cut taxes. Of course, cut taxes. We don’t need no stinkin’ social contract, man!

            Meanwhile, corporate profits are through the roof while public sector workers are unemployed. This is Koch Brothers Socialism. Obama is a socialist like you’re a sane thinker.

          • tony newbill

            Corporate profits are a DIRECT result of a 85 Billion a Month QE Policy by the Federal Reserve pumping goosing and stimulating those Corporate Profits common JEFF you gotta be smarter than this to believe this is sustainable !!!!!!
            You need to get this JOB because its the Only one that will be left once the roof caves in on the Crony Fascist Plutocratic Juice machine called the Obama Federal Reserve thats about to push the wrong buttons in the EUROZONE that will bring the whole house of cards down as Interest rates here will blow the Federal Debt UP and collapse the whole Capital system !!! http://tinyurl.com/25zq76d

          • Jeff

            Well, all you need to do is sell the market short. You’ll be the next Joe Kennedy, and we’ll all be working for you publishing a Paranoid Newsletter.

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… Wow. Are you going the religious route to predict, is that why you sent this link? Let’s remember there have been so many religious leaders in the last 2000 years who were so sure the world is ending on the day they claimed it would in their respective years. One guy last year, a Evangelical minister, predicted it the second time last year because he made a mistake the first time. I guess since we were still around the next day he gathered all his superior and God given prediction skills and figured he made a mistake. Go figure. And you said Capitalism will fall by the end of this year? OK, we will see if that so sure prediction, the fall of Capitalism, is as good as the President Romney one where so many on the Right were SO DAMN SURE. LOL…

          • Jeff

            Ever read Tom Tomorrow? It’s like a modern-day Doonesbury.

            http://www.thenation.com/blogs/tom-tomorrow

          • tony newbill

            Jeff my God Katrina is about as Communist as you can get so I can’t even bare to look at the post .

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Yeah, I have seen those now and then… Pretty funny…

          • tony newbill

            Here you go MACGYVER are you ready to get Reeducated ??? http://info.publicintelligence.net/USArmy-InternmentResettlement.pdf

          • Jeff

            It is a very interesting document, but I doubt it means anything. First, you’re still with us and I’m pretty sure you’re not Daniel Ellsberg. Second, the Army/Pentagon has contingency plans for every eventuality. There are plans for the invasion of Canada and even for fighting space aliens. I don’t think the existence of a plan means there is any likelihood of it’s being used. The woman in the first link is talking about her early association with Werner von Braun – you know, the guy who aimed for the stars but sometimes hit London!

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7ALLUuvsVkM

            http://www.damninteresting.com/americas-secret-plan-to-invade-canada/

            http://mentalfloss.com/article/12366/1927-us-plan-invade-canada

            http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/09/19/us-canada-invasion-obama_n_1897197.html

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… It really was a very interesting document and I really was reeducated. It just changed my whole outlook on our politics. LOL… DUH

            I remember from when I was in the Air Force there was a conversation we had about almost anything the Military had just to past the time on a plane to somewhere, including the invasion of Canada, etc. We thought it was just a way to keep the desk jockeys in the Pentagon busy. See what a lot of our military tax dollar goes toward? There is so much waste in the military they could use a budget adjustment and we would still have the best military to defend us. Oh wait, didn’t we hear something like that concerning military budget cuts? Some people were opposed to cutting the waste in the military if I remember correctly. :-

          • Jeff

            Did you happen to notice at the bottom of the first page with the Table of Contents it said this version supersedes the September 2007 version. For how long do you think these “plans” have been around? At least since the Cold War, probably since WWII, and possibly longer than that. They are contingency plans and were not commissioned by Obama to put your little fanny in the hoose-gow! Honestly, your paranoia is off the charts.

      • deerinwater

        Tony says; “tony newbill says:
        March 25, 2013 at 11:21 pm
        BOB666 revelations are coming true”

        Tony, ~ if you keep drinking from this poison well ~ and running around in circles like a “roach” on “Raid” , you will lose what little creditably you have here.

        That link was pure bullsh1t ! Why do you do that? ~~

        I can supply you links that offer evidence ` that the Clinton’s are aliens from the planet 19XK 3 third moon. ~ and out to make off with all the worlds snow cone stands to use a fuel for their return flight, finding “Blue Coconut” works best.

        Attempt to keep your discourse between the ditches for Christ Sake!

        The GOP has wasted hundreds of millions of American Tax dollars and thousandths of man hours by the highest paid officials in government to convict the Clintion’s ~ AND TODATE found Bill guilty of lying about getting a little loose tail on the side. ~ Like a Southern Gentleman is required to “Kiss and Tell” by virtue of title and position.

        This obsession ~ serves no one!

        I don’t share my intimate moments with frisky ladies with the world and has no respect for any man that would. ~ So his guilt in lying. I would celebrate and make him only stand taller in my eyes. ~ and the price tag for that ~ is what?

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/starr082899.htm

        • tony newbill

          DEERINWATER and MACGYVER1948 , keeping drinking your brand of KOOLAID here on the Beach at Obamaville and soon the MOTHER of all BUBBLES will Soil your site !!!!!

          http://www.youtube.com/embed/xEYFFiEnUjQ?feature=player_embedded%22

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            LOL! ☺ That was cute Tony ! ~ Thanks! I’ll send that around, you can be sure.

            That sort of goes along with ~

            Oh! Say! can you see by da dawns early light

            as I’s set’s here on da bank await’n for dem dare Carp ta bite

            I’s a non work’n negro with nair not a care

            as da US gobermnet seen’s me that dar welfare.

            Da’ys sent’s me da money, i’s don’t pay’s is back

            dat’s why I’s drives a new Cadillac.

            ~~

            Insensitive stereo-tying humor ~ left to laugh or be angry about it.

            I guess you know, ~ that heath care is no long free Right? ~ That’s what so many of you are pissed off about. ~ or so many claim anyway. ~ It’s being demand that everyone make an effort to pay something toward their own health care.

            And the most important change being, ~ you can’t be denied coverage by a provider for any reason.

          • tony newbill

            Its ain’t going to matter because the Bubble thats coming in about a year will wipe out any sort of free market and you will get whatever Obamaville is willing to give ya if you were a loyal servant on record . Servitude comes with the collapse of Liberty so get ready . This story tells how it will start the domino effect of the Collapse of Liberty in the USA and For the First Time Since WW2 and the formation of the dollar as the worlds trade currency will be ended in this Bubble collapse .

            The Federal Reserve Exit Strategy may be the Confiscation strategy of Euros out of banks in the EU as there is now talk of this being a Good Model that Cyrus has Introduced as their solution to their financial crisis ….. This will send the EU into a Depression and Hyper Inflation in the USA and the BRICS will have a Opportunity to divide the EU and USA with a Financial alternative to Join the Yaun Bond Market ending the Dollar as worlds Trade currency .

            http://money.msn.com/investing/europes-crisis-buys-time-for-fed?page=2

            “ But the right crisis here or there could do the job very nicely, thank you. If another turn of the eurozone debt crisis sends the euro back down against the dollar and produces another flight to safety that sees bond buyers snapping up U.S. Treasurys, that would be exactly the kind of demand increase the Fed needs”.

          • Bob666

            Tony,
            one question, What color is the sky in your world?

          • macgyver1948

            Bob…. That is a very good question you ask of Tony. I bet it is the color of, em, em Tea… LOL

          • tony newbill

            MACGYVER get ready to Pay up sucker !!!! 12,000 bucks a Year for a Family of 4 , you think people have this kind of cash income to give the Master ???
            Obama Ignores Nullification, Says Federal Agents Will Enforce Obamacare
            http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/03/obama-ignores-nullification-says-federal-agents-will-enforce-obamacare-2603608.html?utm_campaign=&utm_content=beforeit39snews-verticalresponse&utm_medium=verticalresponse&utm_source=direct-b4in.info&utm_term=http%3A%2F%2Fb4in.info%2FcUV

          • Jeff

            Tony:

            I don’t know where you get insurance for a family of 4 for $1,000 a month. Maybe if the parents are both 25 years old and in perfect health. If you get insurance from an employer, you may not even know what it costs. My wife teaches at a private school. They pay for her insurance but charge to insure me and our teenage son on the group plan. It costs a fortune and oddly it’s about the same to insure him as to insure me despite my age and pre-existing condition. My biggest concern about the efficacy of Obamacare has been whether it actually has the teeth to keep costs in line. It’s one thing to mandate that insurers have to insure someone with a pre-existing condition; it’s another to mandate it be affordable. Still, it’s a step in the right direction, but single payer or expanding Medicare would have been the superior option.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… I am paying a little over $100 a month but its just me and I do not see it going up this year at least and when it doers it will be just a couple of dollars. I just got on the Medicare rolls this month so its all good. Gee, if the TPGOP gets its ways Medicare will be vouchered and the cost might go way up even as they ignore inflation or they will just cancel it out all together and then health care will go way up as they would want for the insurance companies… Good for TeaGOP, always looking out for us… :-)… Thank you “‘Keep Trying” Ryan, you stooge…

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Have you heard yet? The big wind from Kentucky is gearing up for another long winded rant, along with one of his mirror image Tea buddies, this time to filibuster gun control. See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/26/rand-paul-gun-control-filibuster_n_2954458.html?utm_hp_ref=daily-brief?utm_source=DailyBrief&utm_campaign=032613&utm_medium=email&utm_content=NewsEntry&utm_term=Daily%20Brief

            I responded to a in-favor of Rand comment. Here is that comment and my response.

            His exactly as he placed it (turn your speakers down since he is so loud):
            RAD PAUL WAS RAISED BY HIS DAD ,THE AMERICAN WAY …UNDERSTAND THE CONSTITUTION ,WORK HARD ,ABIDE BY THE CONSTITUTION …TO BAD MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT RAISED THAT WAY …THEY ARE TOLD ,GOVERNMENT OWES THEM ,DON”T THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE ,..THEY WANT EVERYTHING NOW ….”

            My response:
            “Film along with this recording at 11 on Fox News, your WWE like entertainment news network.. If we can’t prove it we will make it up to prove how Right we are AND WE WILL BE TELLING YOU WANT YOU WANT AND THINK….

            Where’s my Tea, I gotta have more MORE MORE……. etc.”
            888

            Then I corrected the typo with:
            “Sorry, it should have been “AND WE WILL BE TELLING YOU WHAT YOU WANT AND THINK…. ” there was a glitch in my Tea programming, LOL…”

          • Jeff

            I don’t know why that’s news unless those two Bozos are going to filibuster something that Mitch McConnell will go along with which, at this point, is probably nothing. McConnell’s only concern (now that he denied Obama a 2nd term) is avoiding a Tea Party challenge, so it seems unlikely he’ll allow even the most modest “background check” bill to get a vote. I hope one of those wackos beats the entrenched wacko, setting up a general election between Ashley Judd and some “legitimate rape” candidate.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Every time I hear the term “Legitimate Rape” I want to scream. That AH GOPer who ran against my states Dem Senator is such a sexist pig and in all his other Tea ways he should fall off the planet. Do these guys not care about women at all with this and their denial of other equal rights? For men’s too?

            Well, they cannot buck Tea/The Pledge if they want a career past the moment they buck it. Of course there had to be a denial for Obama’s second term. I want to leave the race card out but mainly, or is it also, because Obama wouldn’t be a signer. I think it is at least that from the start with Obama for them. If Ike was around today he wouldn’t sign and they would get him for that as well as his being a commie (again) because they say so.

            Those two bozos, as you call them with no argument from me, will do as they are told. I am not so sure of Rand’s sincerity in anything but he is a future runner for the big Oval, maybe, and he wants NRA as well as Tea backing. Gotta love their kind of politics.

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… Is Obama your master now?,,, Gee, when did that happen”… :-)…

          • Jeff

            Tony:

            Where will all the free food come from – laboratories recreating bologna? I know you and Alondra and the Texas Idiot (Doesn’t “Texas Ride” imply something about the back end of a horse?) only eat fast food and the like, so you don’t care much for the natural world, but if we keep screwing with the climate, there will be less and less available food. I know that on this blog I’m an “environmentalist wacko” for saying so, but every link in the food chain is important. When the insects go, so will an awful lot of the crops. I know you think your invention of Obama’s tyranny is of vital importance, but maybe you guys could spend a few minutes considering something real that’s much more important.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/26/science/fig-wasps-crucial-tropical-pollinators-face-a-climate-threat.html?emc=tnt&tntemail1=y&_r=0

          • tony newbill

            so just throw up your arms to SERVITUDE JEFF because there is no other way but to cut back in every direction including Humanity !!!!!

          • Jeff

            Has anybody else noticed the absence of the Texas Twit ever since that D.A. got murdered down there? Could there be a connection?

          • Bob666

            [comment has been removed]

          • Jeff

            I thought he might be running from the posse.

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… Are you so sure about this bubble as you guys were about your over the cliff stuff? When did we fall? I am still waiting for the pain to hit in its delayed reactions. You guys are so sure about all you say concerning the future, your solid ‘has to happen our way’ predictions. How is your President Romney doing since he took office? I think your crystal balls have way too much Tea clouding your views. LOL.

            Thanks for this site you offer in this comment. :-).

          • Bob666

            Yo Tony,
            Generally when Mac & Deer post information, it’s not propaganda fro you-tube.

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… You too seem to like that buzzword, “KOOLAID”, do you? Does it help you get your points across? I guess you guys need some kind of verbal crutch catch phrase to get you going when you need something to paint on those who do not see things your way. Does it really help to use such crutches or is it just needed by your tainted imaginations? LOL.

            Cute little video and lyric, not too slanted. If it wasn’t made up Tea BS it might be funny. Go back to Teaville for newer programming. Maybe they can better show you how Obama is responsible for the attack on Pearl Harbor and just blamed it on the Japanese or for Eve coercing Adam into taking a bite of the apple. Wasn’t it really Obama who was the serpent? Watch the light closely… It is all Obama’s fault, It is all Obama’s fault, It is all Obama’s fault, etc. LOL.

          • tony newbill

            The Federal Reserve / Obama & Co. TRI-FECTA of Obamcare in 2014 , the bond and equity market RUSH from EU Depositors when the EUROZONE CONFISCATES EU Depositors CASH from their Bank accounts , and the Inflation we will see Hyper from the RUSH out of the EU into USA Stocks and Treasuries will POP The Financial Bubble in the USA as the DEBT Obama has on the Books EXPLODES from the INTEREST RATE He WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SERVICE !!!!
            Get ready for SERVITUDE as he has no choice but to Nationalize everyones LIVES !!!!

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… Okkk, thank you for the warning, I will be ready “for SERVITUDE “, I am stocking up on Tea to be safe as we speak. LOL…

  • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

    Regretfully, Chip, the Republican party deserves much of the criticism for aligning itself with bankers and other capitalists that robbed the public.

    Congressman Ron Paul and his son Ryan Paul and the Tea Party movement have the winning solution for a revival of the GOP: Return to constitutional government, as laid out in the 1776 Declaration of Independence:

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident. That all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights” to self-governance and not to be ruled by the tyrannical, one-world government established by frightened world leaders on 24 Oct 1945:

    http://orach24463.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/fear-and-loathing-of-humans-the-pathology-behind-the-climate-change-movement/

    THe GOP must work with Democrats to abolish the tyrannical, one-world government, without restoring racial and nationalistic hatreds and warfare.

    With kind regards,
    - Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo
    http://www.omatumr.com

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      Congressman Ron Paul and his son Ryan Paul and the Tea Party movement have the winning solution for a revival of the GOP: Return to constitutional government, as laid out in the 1776 Declaration of Independence:

      That would be an amazing trick……..finding the “Constitution” in
      the Declaration of Independence,………..but then it does provide a perfect
      explanation for the fact that your “scientific peers” have failed to pay any
      attention to you……..as you seem to be somewhat challenged regarding
      the sequential nature of “cause and effect”?

      “We hold these truths to be self-evident. That all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights” to self-governance and not to be ruled by the tyrannical, one-world government established by frightened world leaders on 24 Oct 1945:

      The word is “unalienable”…..meanwhile:

      Still Waiting for a response…..Oliver K. Manuel: Fourth Time and 6 days have passed? Can you read?

      “The reality that is revealed by experimental data, measurements and observations on the material world is fully compatible with the reality that is realized by meditation, prayer and contemplation on the spiritual world.”

      Really? Science deals with the physical world. Meta -physics attempts to discern some connection to a non material yet co-existent or pre-existent “spirital world”, for which there are myriad varients.

      You offer a conclusion here which unfortunately:

      1.) Fails to identify which of these metaphysical varients you have chosen as the “consistent one”.

      2.) Fails to show any connection to any of the science, you have been babbling about.

      3.) Fails to demonstrate that any of the scientific controversy you are raising has gained any acceptance, by your peers.

      4.) Fails to offer any consistent hypothesis regarding the “underlying” conspiracy you are suggesting…….since you have failed to deal with the first 3 points…….and your conclusion, requires the unification of physics and metaphysics……..which requires that the latter, fit the observational data of the former……..which is the reason for the “split” in the first place. Meta-physics came first……..and THAT IS THE PROBLEM!!!!

      YOU HAVE NOT RESOLVED THIS PROBLEM!

      The supposed conflict between science and religion – the same propaganda Stalin used to control people in the old USSR before WWII – is being used to control people in the new, tyrannical one-world after WWII !

      Preaching to the choir? The conflict began way before Stalin…..you are a “specialist”………and so far it does not appear that you have any credibility in what you are supposedly qualified for……….having been exposed to the rest of your babbling………your comprehension and ability to sythesize other fields of knowledge is non existant.

      It is called “politically correct thinking” by those who would have objected to Thomas Jefferson’s declaration in 1776 that citizens of the USA “were endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights”.

      He didn’t actually write that……and it is false anyway. You have a single unalienable right……..and this is consistent which observable data……….all the rest is metaphyiscal speculation which has no evidence to support it. See 1.) 2.) 3.) and 4.) above.

      Animal Farm described the problem before WWII. Nineteen Eighty-Four (“1984″) describes the world society after WWII – TODAY.

      With deep regrets,
      - Oliver K. Manuel

      No need to have regrets……..while the “commie” touch is nice and reference to Jefferson clearly manipulative…….in terms of scientific understanding, you are clearly in the WRONG PLACE. ( of course, your grasp of “science” at this point is questionable. )

      I realize that in many ways the implications of “science” are essentially contemporary in terms of scope, but we are way beyond the point of understanding that prevailed in Catherine the Great’s Court and you sir are not the modern equivilant of Descartes, although you might be tempted by the “intellectual” prowess of the “liberty movement”, this in NOT a safe haven, for you…….even when you throw in AGW and anti Obama rhetoric. ( and imagined plots and conspiracies )

      As was explained to Brandon Smith, you can try to write general babble if you like……..mindless rhetoric using the appropriate “labels” will always appear to be “brilliant”…….as long as you are never called to actually be specific……..unfortunately for you, once you identify the specific meta-physical philosophy your conclusion suggests, you will be finished. Be a good “specialist”…..and go fight with your “peers”……because until you win there, you have “no science” and it does not appear that you have the “intellect” or “knowledge” to even come close to the “conclusion”, you have “claimed” to have accomplished.

      “He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.”

      • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

        Agents of “the resurrected Stalin” display their master’s propaganda skills, writing absolute rubbish with an air of authority.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        But they are simply questions for you to explain your rantings…….

        So either answer them or demonstrate why they are irrelevant and do
        not require answers……which is the equivalent of answering them.

        They will be posted, every time you post here, until you do….and
        a running total of the days and times posted since they were first asked……

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      You seem to have a “problem” responding to either “english” or questions asked in ” english”………….why is that?

      You have been presented with the “problem of the unification of physics and metaphysics”, and it has been pointed out to you, that you have not “solved” or “resolved” this problem and why…….

      Do you not understand the question or the problem?

      Do you not understand that regardless of how many links you have posted to supposed “scientific claims” you will still have not solved or resolved the problem?

      Do you not understand that whatever the correct science is……….

      The reality revealed by experimental data, measurements and observations on the material world is fully compatible with the reality that is realized by meditation, prayer and contemplation on the spiritual world.

      you can not achieve the results stated by DECLARING THIS TO BE TRUE!

      Or do you NOT understand the difference between a “reality” revealed by “experimental data, measurements and observations” and the “imagined reality” that is and has been the “result” of ” meditation, prayer and contemplation”?

      If the latter were a realiable “source of the TRUTH regarding REALITY” there would be NO CONFLICT between metaphysics and physics, or if you like “science” and “religion”………because “science” would have simply been a “confirmation” of all the “truth” that had already been revealed by “religion”?

      Unless you are a “willfully ignorant, functional illiterate” this is not what science has indicated, and despite what YOU BELIEVE the “science to be”, this is NOT WHAT YOUR SCIENCE has indicated.

      Whatever consistency you imagine exists between your science and your metaphysical belief system, you HAVE FAILED TO DEMONSTRATE that consistency, or actually give any indication of what your “metaphysical belief system” is?

      The root of society’s demise is government deception about energy in the cores of heavy atoms (Th, U, Pu), planets (Jupiter, Saturn), ordinary stars (the Sun) and galaxies (Milky Way) that started in 1946 .

      The relationship between energy and matter, E = MC^2 seems to have preceded this conspiracy by a few decades, why is that? Also you have ignored the following questions…….stated predviously:

      Just curious, but if the calculations of the component elements of the sun are wrong, wouldn’t the mass of the sun be miscalculated also?

      And if this were TRUE, wouldn’t all the gravitational calculations within our solar system, between the sun and all orbiting bodies, also be wrong? ( and this gets worse because the “earth”s composition has already been noted as being mostly Fe! ( iron ))

      Why? Fear that humans might misuse nuclear energy to destroy life on Earth, including the lives of world leaders.

      That seems reasonable and still a possible concern, but only if those who have the technological capability yield to the insanity., which seems highly unlikely. Which brings us to this question, asked by many here.

      “What the heck does this have to do with the Patriot Movement?”

      Everything ! We must each search for reality, truth for ourselves to be effective Patriots.

      True Patriots must think for themselves, instead of consuming government propaganda as a pig eating slop.

      This is the typical mindless rheotoric which is “common mushroom feed” for this site……..is this why you think you have a future here?

      Too bad, because “mindless” means mindless……and while I can see the “attraction”……..your mythology had better be “identical” to the “mythology” of those you seek to impress.

      The word “patriot” really has no meaning in this land of rhetorical babble……..simply because there is no understanding of “history” or the real reasons for the “revolution” or the “motivations” of those “patriots” that are often cited as the “enlightened inspiration” for it……..so for most………their understanding of “history” is “propaganda”…..and references to the Declaration and the Constitution, do not alter this fact, for these were “effects” not causes………and given enough TIME, this REALITY will become “obvious”…….

      Regardless of how long this takes, YOU HAVE NO FUTURE HERE. The “willfully ignorant, functional illiterates” are a notorious and cantankerous lot……..but they can not hang because they rely on rhetoric…..and avoid, fact and logical reasoning and are easily EXPOSED!

      You have been EXPOSED by simple questions you can not and will not answer……..how many more times will you have to be asked?

      “He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.”

      • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

        Rantings like these belie your purpose, Galt.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Correct, I am exposing you for the fool you are………

        Answer the questions or leave……..you have nothing else to say here, except
        to call attention to some “theory” which has been rejected by your peers,
        accompanied by irrelevant claims of having achieved an imagined
        “unification” of physics and metaphysics…….which was easily disposed of.

        Enjoy!

      • Vicki

        GALT says (to omanuel):
        “Answer the questions or leave…….:”

        It’s not your place to tell him or anyone else to leave. It’s not your website.

        • macgyver1948

          Vickie… Wow something you say I agree with. Amazing… This is suppose to be a site, according to Bob Livingston, where all views from all sides can be presented, hopefully respectfully, so in this good for you…

      • Vicki

        macgyver1948 says:
        “Vickie… Wow something you say I agree with. Amazing…”

        Actually probably not all that amazing. I am by nature classical liberal (closest current label being libertarian). If you read posts between Jon L and I you will find that our areas of agreement are much larger then areas we disagree.

        Mostly the disagreement is that I STRONGLY disapprove of forcing others to do things my way. Directly or by use of a government agent.

        Governments sole job is to help protect us individually and collectively against others who use force or fraud to get their way.

        • macgyver1948

          Vicki… What are you trying to do here, get me to agree with you more? LOL. I am not so much in favor of government doing my thinking for me let alone making my decisions. I know people who have or are going to turn 65 and they are on Society Security. They were told that the Medicare premium will be taken from their monthly Social Security pay-back, my word not theirs, monthly to pay for their Medicare. They were not asked, they were told that money will be deducted. I am not comfortable with that but they will have health insurance where they wouldn’t be able to other wise. It might depend on how you look at that I guess.

          I actually hate it when people push on me “I am right and if you do not agree with me you have to be wrong”. I get that a lot with religion, another reason I am for putting “Separation Of Church And State” into the Constitution next to “Freedom Of Religion”. But it works the same for me when people’s politics or government stuffs are inflicted on me. As well as I do not have to be agreed with so they too do not either in our country and I do not understand why people do not get that.

          I can understand why you feel “forcing others to do things my way. Directly or by use of a government agent” is not a comfortable thing. I feel the same to an extent but when we need help it can make compassionate sense some time. Actually I do not want to need help and I prefer to do what all I need all by myself and not depend on government. I just hope they do not go to far with it. As with maybe forcing people to pay for Medicare from their already small and limited Social Security especially if that is all they have to live on as so many do. One person said to me “I avoided the doctor for the last few years since retiring because I couldn’t afford to go so maybe forcing the Medicare payments on me will be needed as I get older”. Who knows yet but it is something to consider.

          You end with “Governments sole job is to help protect us individually and collectively against others who use force or fraud to get their way”. I like it very much on the surface. But what would government do with all the heavily rising numbers of homeless and death tolls because no one was there to help? Is that really the kind of America you want, the apathetic kind? Religious organizations can not, or wont, handle it all and the already rising homeless and going hungry numbers show that. Doesn’t the Right often enough point out the rising numbers on food stamps but they blame that, as with everything else that has ever afflicted mankind, on Obama?

          • Jeff

            Unfortunately for people like Vickie and Tony, the Constitution is about more than the 2nd Amendment and fighting bad guys. It empowers Congress to legislate for the promotion of the general welfare. Interesting that welfare is in the Constitution and Jesus is not! Also, the 9th Amendment, perhaps the most ignored part of the Constitution, makes clear that the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are not exhaustive. So, it is not true that the only role for Government is the common defense. The Government has a legitimate role regulating interstate commerce and providing for the general welfare (i.e. the good of the people as a whole). If that means making sure everyone has access to food, decent housing, and good medical care, there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents it.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Good point, I wasn’t remembering the 9th Amendment at the time. I have enough copies here I should refresh. This country of ours would not be even as successful as it is, with its many faults, if the Government was limited to just protecting us and not infringing on our liberties, even as very important as they are. It wouldn’t work…

            I have been trying to say we need things like regulations, such as but not limited to interstate commerce, but that cannot always be agreed with and much of why is because the Right doesn’t see these things as beneficial to their benefactors, the very wealthy and the corporations. Oh well, we try…

            I really like this:
            “The Government has a legitimate role regulating interstate commerce and providing for the general welfare (i.e. the good of the people as a whole). If that means making sure everyone has access to food, decent housing, and good medical care, there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents it”. More of what does not benefit their benefactors so of course they would be opposed.

      • Vicki

        Jeff says:
        “Unfortunately for people like Vickie and Tony, the Constitution is about more than the 2nd Amendment and fighting bad guys.”

        Why would that be unfortunate?

        - Jeff: “It empowers Congress to legislate for the promotion of the general welfare.”

        Really? Is that not the point of helping the people defend against force or fraud?

        - Jeff: “Also, the 9th Amendment, perhaps the most ignored part of the Constitution, makes clear that the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are not exhaustive.”

        Quite true. I often point this out.

        - Jeff: “So, it is not true that the only role for Government is the common defense. The Government has a legitimate role regulating interstate commerce and providing for the general welfare (i.e. the good of the people as a whole).”

        Since protecting ALL of our rights is what it means to help defend against force or fraud you have just stated what is.

        - Jeff: “If that means making sure everyone has access to food, decent housing, and good medical care, there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents it.”

        You won’t be the first to stretch the commerce clause way beyond its intent.

        Let”s recheck the list of powers delegated to the federal government.
        ———————————————————————————————————-
        The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

        To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

        To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

        To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

        To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

        To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

        To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

        To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

        To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

        To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

        To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

        To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

        To provide and maintain a Navy;

        To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

        To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

        To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

        To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;–And

        To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
        ———————————————————————————————————–
        http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

        so there is nothing in the powers granted to the federal government that authorizes them to make sure everyone has access to food, decent housing, and good medical care”

        Thus the Constitution does explicitly prevent the federal government from taking your wealth away and giving it to me just so I can have what I (or the government) considers to be decent housing, good medical care etc.

        • Jeff

          “Jeff: “If that means making sure everyone has access to food, decent housing, and good medical care, there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents it.”

          You won’t be the first to stretch the commerce clause way beyond its intent.

          Let”s recheck the list of powers delegated to the federal government.”

          What’s that got to do with the commerce clause? I was talking about the General Welfare and possibly an interpretation of the 9th Amendment.

      • Vicki

        macgyver1948 says:
        “Vicki… What are you trying to do here, get me to agree with you more? LOL.”
        :) As I mentioned we have a lot more points of agreement than disagreement.

        - macgyver1948: “I know people who have or are going to turn 65 and they are on Society Security. They were told that the Medicare premium will be taken from their monthly Social Security pay-back, my word not theirs, monthly to pay for their Medicare. They were not asked, they were told that money will be deducted.”

        I bet a lot of companies would like to unilaterally change their contracts. Government is supposed to protect against that behavior not be the cause.

        - macgyver1948: “I am not comfortable with that but they will have health insurance where they wouldn’t be able to other wise. It might depend on how you look at that I guess.”

        It is not and never has been the governments place to force us to save money.

        - macgyver1948: I actually hate it when people push on me “I am right and if you do not agree with me you have to be wrong”. I get that a lot with religion, another reason I am for putting “Separation Of Church And State” into the Constitution next to “Freedom Of Religion”.”

        What would you need it for? As long as they don’t actually push on you (that using force thing).

        - macgyver1948: “I can understand why you feel “forcing others to do things my way. Directly or by use of a government agent” is not a comfortable thing. I feel the same to an extent but when we need help it can make compassionate sense some time.”

        How can it ever be alright to force someone to give us help?

        - macgyver1948: “Actually I do not want to need help and I prefer to do what all I need all by myself and not depend on government. I just hope they do not go to far with it. As with maybe forcing people to pay for Medicare from their already small and limited Social Security especially if that is all they have to live on as so many do. One person said to me “I avoided the doctor for the last few years since retiring because I couldn’t afford to go so maybe forcing the Medicare payments on me will be needed as I get older”. Who knows yet but it is something to consider.”

        When is is it ever ok to force someone to pay for something that they can’t afford anyway?

        - macgyver1948: “You end with “Governments sole job is to help protect us individually and collectively against others who use force or fraud to get their way”. I like it very much on the surface. But what would government do with all the heavily rising numbers of homeless and death tolls because no one was there to help?”

        First there is always someone there to help. Goodwill, Salvation Army, Churches etc.
        Second forcing people to “help” creates a class of slaves and creates resentment.

        - macgyver1948: “Is that really the kind of America you want, the apathetic kind?”

        It is not the place of government to force you to NOT be apathetic. It is also not my place to use government to force you to pay for my pet charities.

        - macgyver1948: “Religious organizations can not, or wont, handle it all and the already rising homeless and going hungry numbers show that.”

        The homeless and or hungry are there and rising due directly to government policies that are way outside the role of government. (Think stimulus monies for example)

        - macgyver1948: “Doesn’t the Right often enough point out the rising numbers on food stamps but they blame that, as with everything else that has ever afflicted mankind, on Obama?”

        At least the right has noticed that President Bush is retired and there is a new person in the White House.

        • macgyver1948

          Vickie… I am not so sure what you mean by “I bet a lot of companies would like to unilaterally change their contracts. Government is supposed to protect against that behavior not be the cause “.

          I have worked for several corporations in their home offices and that included much contact with the execs. One of the reasons I left my last position is because the execs were typical in how they responded to the public and the differences in how they were toward their employees. Their attitudes were different toward the customers behind the scenes than presented to the public too. I didn’t like it so it was time to leave.

          What I am not seeing in what you say is because the causes for the behaver are the problems. Government is not trying to add to the causes but they are pressured to do something. Much of what they do is a good thing and some go too far. If it weren’t for the regulations there would be more honesty in how the execs treat the customers and the employees in general and I do not think the public or the employees would like it, not that many like a lot of it as it is now.

          The company I worked for has in place anti employee policies and they do not speak of them but they do use them when they want. In some cases those policies are not findable and I think that is for those plausible deniablity reasons I mentioned here before. I do not think these kinds of anti employee policies are exclusive to that company and it is a huge company with a lot of influence. Actually I see, as well as hear from people who work for companies in Right to work states, that there is much less desirable treatment toward the employees. The companies have more control and as such the employees have so much less in most things baring the right to quit. That is what happens when there is no representation for the employees, which is what Right To Work states give the employers. There needs to be some happy medium but as long as the execs own politicians there will not be that.

          I very much agree with you when you say “a lot of companies would like to unilaterally change their contracts” if the changing of those government contracts means they ‘lower their expenses and gain more control over their employees’ (which are major corporate goals any way), as if they do not already have plenty.

          You go on to say “It is not and never has been the governments place to force us to save money”. Who says it is the governments responsibility? It would be nice if everyone could afford decent health care for themselves and their families but in reality so many people cannot afford to save for it. There are people who are on Social Security who cannot afford to safe for the “income” taxes they have to pay on this deferred tax thing called Social Security so health care is a luxury they cannot afford either.

          You include my words “- macgyver1948: I actually hate it when people push on me “I am right and if you do not agree with me you have to be wrong”. I get that a lot with religion, another reason I am for putting “Separation Of Church And State” into the Constitution next to “Freedom Of Religion”.”
          And then you say “What would you need it for? As long as they don’t actually push on you (that using force thing)”. You are missing the point(s). I do not get physical with it unless they do and that hasn’t happened. But how would you feel if people got in your face with damning loud voices and demanded you are wrong because of your religious beliefs, your religion in general, or your politics? It is wrong and that should stop before violence does prop up. But also the ways people think this a religious specific country is also why I feel the need for that Constitutional addition along with how certain religions feel they have the right to “influence” our Government in law making top reflect their religious views. That should be Unconstitutional considering “Freedom Of Religion”.

          You go on with “How can it ever be alright to force someone to give us help?”. Again you are missing the point. Who should be responsible for you if you get a heart attack and you turned down help with health care? What if you cannot afford to pay that bill now that you turned down help? There are some people who say if you are a tobacco user and you get cancer or a respiratory disease you should pay the bills yourself with just your money at the hospital or any doctors’s and insurance should not be available to you even if you are covered because it is self inflicted. Should we just allow people to die or suffer until then? The results are the same, no care for what seems to some people’s good reasons, the lack of compassion or concern.

          Then you say “First there is always someone there to help. Goodwill, Salvation Army, Churches etc”. Give me a break with this. Where are those people in so many cases since we have so many people who are homeless and many going hungry and those numbers are growing? I think we should be thankful for the Goodwills, Salvation Armys, Churches etc but there are not nearly enough of them, not by a long shot.

          You include “Second forcing people to “help” creates a class of slaves and creates resentment”. Yep, that is what your side says so often. The fact is there are so many who need the help because they cannot make it without that help but would rather not have it. I know there are people who will take advantage but there are so many who wouldn’t if they didn’t NEED to.

          You say “It is not the place of government to force you to NOT be apathetic. It is also not my place to use government to force you to pay for my pet charities”. WOW, you really do defend yours and your sides apathy with lines like that. So much of what you say here does that.

          WOW again when you include “The homeless and or hungry are there and rising due directly to government policies that are way outside the role of government. (Think stimulus monies for example)”. This is so generalized of you. Again, the fact is so many of the homeless and the hungry got that way due to being downsized, layed off, BAINed or just plain fired because their company’s accountants told the execs to do it. It is not all the fault of the many unemployed for being unemployed and the damn asses on that GOP presidential debate panel who said so are the apathy leading their programmed-to-be apathetic followers and just plain so often making that excuse for their owners, the execs, and for no other reasson. Well, even your elected GOP are that way, not just those who lost. The GOP creed = “For the benefit and protection of the Corporations – ALWAYS”. Cheers!

          Your end your comment with “At least the right has noticed that President Bush is retired and there is a new person in the White House”. Are you breathing for real? Do you really think we on the Left do not realize the little bush is gone, as he always should have been? He should have retired way before his last term as Governor of Texas. The fact is we are still living with many of the financial and other problems created by the little bush admin almost as though he is still in the White House… Nice try with that one too but that is one reason why many of us on the Left still bring him up.

      • Vicki

        Jeff says:
        “What’s that got to do with the commerce clause? I was talking about the General Welfare and possibly an interpretation of the 9th Amendment.”

        Here is more on the purpose of “general welfare”
        http://www.lawandliberty.org/genwel.htm

        Now how might you be thinking to interpret the 9th Amendment. Are you saying that you have a right to “decent” housing? If so who gets to define “decent”?

      • Vicki

        macgyver1948 says:
        “Vickie… You go on to say “It is not and never has been the governments place to force us to save money”. Who says it is the governments responsibility?”

        You do. Social Security which you support.

        - macgyver1948: “It would be nice if everyone could afford decent health care for themselves and their families but in reality so many people cannot afford to save for it.”

        Healthcare is only expensive because, thru insurance, a lot of people pay for a few that actually use the insurance.

        - macgyver1948: “There are people who are on Social Security who cannot afford to safe for the “income” taxes they have to pay on this deferred tax thing called Social Security so health care is a luxury they cannot afford either.”

        And that is obviously the fault of the government and their “tax code” proving yet again government IS the problem.

        - macgyver1948: “You are missing the point(s). I do not get physical with it unless they do and that hasn’t happened. But how would you feel if people got in your face with damning loud voices and demanded you are wrong because of your religious beliefs, your religion in general, or your politics?”

        My feelings are mine alone to control. So like I do here when liberals try to get in my face with ad hominem I tend to ignore them.

        - macgyver1948: “It is wrong and that should stop before violence does prop up.”

        You have not properly described the incidents so I can not tell if there is anything actually ‘wrong’ I know they have a God given right to have and share their opinion which is explicitly protected in the 1st Amendment. But you have the 9th Amendment right to NOT have to listen to them. Walk away.

        - macgyver1948: “But also the ways people think this a religious specific country is also why I feel the need for that Constitutional addition along with how certain religions feel they have the right to “influence” our Government in law making top reflect their religious views. That should be Unconstitutional considering “Freedom Of Religion”.”

        They have the same right to influence our government in law making that reflects their views as you do to reflect yours. Government agents who uphold their oath would examine the Constitution to see if they have been given the power to actually pass a law. An example of laws that the Federal Government has passed that are clearly outside their power is the federal laws against possession of (some) drugs.

        - macgyver1948: “You go on with “How can it ever be alright to force someone to give us help?”. Again you are missing the point. Who should be responsible for you if you get a heart attack and you turned down help with health care?”

        You are in the U.S. You are NEVER turned down health care for emergencies. Heart attack is one such emergency.

        - macgyver1948: “What if you cannot afford to pay that bill now that you turned down help?”

        If you are turned down help (not possible in the US) there would be no bill.

        - macgyver1948: “There are some people who say if you are a tobacco user and you get cancer or a respiratory disease you should pay the bills yourself with just your money at the hospital or any doctors’s and insurance should not be available to you even if you are covered because it is self inflicted”

        There are some people that say the sun should rise in the west. So what? It is not their business. It is the natural right of the insurance company to decide how to run its business and if it doesn’t want to insure smokers then it is not the governments place (or mine) to insist that they do.

        - macgyver1948: “Should we just allow people to die or suffer until then? The results are the same, no care for what seems to some people’s good reasons, the lack of compassion or concern.”

        No one is stopping you from providing those people any help you want. What we STRONGLY object to is your forcing us to pay for your pet sick people. We have our own sick people to take care of.

        - macgyver1948: “Then you say “First there is always someone there to help. Goodwill, Salvation Army, Churches etc”. Give me a break with this. Where are those people in so many cases since we have so many people who are homeless and many going hungry and those numbers are growing?”

        They are obviously not going hungry or the streets would be littered with dead bodies.

        - macgyver1948: “I think we should be thankful for the Goodwills, Salvation Armys, Churches etc but there are not nearly enough of them, not by a long shot.”

        So? Get out there and start another charity.

        - macgyver1948: “You include “Second forcing people to “help” creates a class of slaves and creates resentment”. Yep, that is what your side says so often.”

        Silly of us to notice such a self evident truth.

        - macgyver1948: “You say “It is not the place of government to force you to NOT be apathetic. It is also not my place to use government to force you to pay for my pet charities”. WOW, you really do defend yours and your sides apathy with lines like that. So much of what you say here does that.

        Our apathy is legendary. That is why we donate more to charity then you guys.
        http://blog.charitynavigator.org/2012/11/who-gives-more-conservatives-or-liberals.html
        You see we believe in consent. You believe in force.

        - macgyver1948: “WOW again when you include “The homeless and or hungry are there and rising due directly to government policies that are way outside the role of government. (Think stimulus monies for example)”. This is so generalized of you.”

        You’re welcome. A detailed list would be a book.

        - macgyver1948: “Again, the fact is so many of the homeless and the hungry got that way due to being downsized, layed off, BAINed or just plain fired because their company’s accountants told the execs to do it. It is not all the fault of the many unemployed for being unemployed and the damn asses on that GOP presidential debate panel who said so are the apathy leading their programmed-to-be apathetic followers and just plain so often making that excuse for their owners, the execs, and for no other reason. Well, even your elected GOP are that way, not just those who lost. The GOP creed = “For the benefit and protection of the Corporations – ALWAYS”. Cheers!

        And this is not generalized? At least I kept mine down to a single sentence.

        - macgyver1948: “Your end your comment with “At least the right has noticed that President Bush is retired and there is a new person in the White House”. Are you breathing for real? Do you really think we on the Left do not realize the little bush is gone, as he always should have been?”

        Since some of you on the left are STILL blaming President Bush it is logical to suspect some of you don’t.

        - macgyver1948: “The fact is we are still living with many of the financial and other problems created by the little bush admin almost as though he is still in the White House… Nice try with that one too but that is one reason why many of us on the Left still bring him up.”

        And there you are. One of the left that are STILL blaming President Bush. He and his administration has been gone for over 4 years. How long do we have to wait for obama to “fix” the problems?

        • macgyver1948

          Vickie… Turn down your Social Security if you do not like it when you become eligible and that too I would support. You can and you should know that but it is what you earned and it would be your choice. As for while you are working it is funny. All through my career I heard people complain that Social Security is being taken, they hated it. I also heard from some of those same people say they are so glad they are receiving it after retirement because they do not know how they would make it without it. Funny, HUH?

          If we go to where it will be a choice for working people, let it stand as it is or choose to have it invested, I would wonder how many of those who chose to gamble with it if they would be glad after retirement if things with the investments go sour. It would be there choice to have nothing of to coming to them then? Who will help them eat and pay rent if the investments didn’t work? You?

          After you quote me on the ones on Social Security having a hard time you say “And that is obviously the fault of the government and their “tax code” proving yet again government IS the problem”. This is so typical Tea thinking. Who says it would be the governments fault other than those of your Tea thinkers who want to assume it form those who do not think that way, of those who do not agree with them?

          We all should make smart investments and decisions while we are working but for so many who received low wages most of their lives they can’t afford to invest and save for their futures. That is a reality you are not seeing so you say we blame the government (“And that is obviously the fault of the government“. People do the best they can with what they have. Many of us on the Left do not blame the government but what would you do with those who cannot afford to live after retirement, LET THEM DIE? Again I see you as being the non compassionate person from the Right.

          How to you is it “obvious” that we blame the government? How is anything so obviously wrong for you on the Tea Right of anything of us on the Left – or of any who do not see things your ways?

          By the way, I am not saying you are a member of Tea, you just are expressing yourself as a Tea thinker. That being you ASSume for those who do not agree with you whatever you want to make them appear wrong. We may be wrong about a thing but not because you say so.

          You share your disapproval with what I say about religious influence in law making. OK. What if the influence was reflected in the law and told you you could no longer celebrate Christmas your ways or if you didn’t comply you would be treated as less than a first class citizen? This has happened so often in history and that is one of the reasons the Founders put Freedom Of Religion (which by the way also means “Freedom From Your Religion”) into the Constitution, so no religion or denomination could dominate any others through law or in any other ways. I do not care how you celebrate your Christmas but never tell me how to live my moral life or affect my religious beliefs or we will have problems. If I choose to continue my religious traditions of circumcision, as in the covenant God made with Abraham for us, or hold the Sabbath on the 7th Day of the week, as your Jesus knew it as Saturday and as God tells us to in Genesis, you better be quiet about it for all who choose it. Who knows where it would lead as it begins if a church leader influences law?

          You say “Our apathy is legendary. That is why we donate more to charity then you guys.
          You see we believe in consent. You believe in force”.
          There your Tea thinking goes again in your telling others what they believe. You have an amazing ability in that far beyond that of mortal man. :-). Thanks for the link, not too bias as your prof, I would suspect.

          I have to ask. Is your real name, or do you go by another name, Elaine? I see a cookie cutter pattern in Tea thinkers so I am only asking.

          I also hope you do not support the Ryan plan and budget because then, you too as is he, become the enemy of the non affluent.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

    The GOP and the Democratic party are not as divided as they appear to be. Repubs and Dems claim they oppose each other, based on principle, on creed, on anything they can disagree on, and they claim to be the direct-opposite of the other, but neither of the parties really separates itself in “policy”. We are so used to having these “two-prties” as the only power brokers in Washington, that we never stop and consider that these “two-parties” are really just “two subsets” of the (same party), two sides of the same coin, that being: the “Federalists”.

    • TIME

      Dear Jay,

      As I have said and know you too have said this now how many TIME’S,
      {two wings have a shared BODY and HEAD.}

      Thus: 1+1 = ONE

      Saddly you and I and a few others get it, yet so many just can’t get their heads around such simple math.

      Thus begs the question ~ Is there really any wonder we are $17 TRILLION in Debt?

      Afterall if the vast amount of people can’t add 1+1 and get 1 as the answer when “one single body holds both wings ~ with one single head” yet many still think its all a Team sport thing.
      Go Team D,
      Go Team R, and the Beat Goes On, Yadda – Yadda – Yadda.

      Peace and Love, Shalom

      • nc

        Time, what happens if we add a third wing? Does the bird fly better? I doubt it! What happens if we cut off the head? Does the bird fly better? I doubt it!
        So let’s just nurture and protect the bird! We have the best country in the world and we got here on the wings of that one bird! If we continue to fight over the bird it may lose one or more of it’s wings and then we would be better off with a frog than a bird that can’t fly!
        The problem is spending more that debt! Democrats are accused of being “taxers and spenders” and yet Republican leaders like McCain have accused the Republicans of spending like a “drunk sailor”
        The accumulation of the national debt has been a “joint” effort and only a joint effort can control it! Adding a third party to the mix is not an answer if the two we have find it difficult to agree! Putting a third party in control would take too long and useless since most of the “third party” are already predicting the end off the world and digging holes in the desert! They are dropping out not coming in!

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

      They are both the same… both groups support truly anti-liberal corporate socialism. One need only reference history and see what they stood for. History will show that they’ve exchanged their stance on the same issues multiple-times.

      For instance, were not the Repubs considered the party of “fiscal-discipline” back in the 90′s? They were all for controlling the budget and even instituted PayGo rules. But guess what? Today the Dems are the ones who are all for PayGo rules. And that’s just one position. Look back further and you’ll see more flips/exchanges similar to that.

      Even the issue of warfare has been flip-flopped. In the 1990′s during the Clinton presidency, the Dems were all for sending our military here and there (Kosovo, Somalia, ect.) to enforce UN Resolutions and such, while the Repubs were firmly against that. Then comes Bush and Republican control, wherein you’re ostracized from the party for questioning the wisdom of invading Iraq in order to enforce UN Resolutions (so the story goes), and then the Dems claimed the title “anti-war.”

      Now with Obama in charge, they are not so “anti-war” as they were during the “Bush-era”.
      They even go so far as to excuse Obama from requesting Congressional-approval…something no other President has ever done.

      Everyone gets stuck on the topics like abortion or gay marriage and think those make huge differences, but then the Dems and Repubs, (together) have almost unanimous agreement in the areas of how to run foreign policy… disagreeing with the policy only when they aren’t the party in power, but executing it all the same when they are in power.

      Both parties have their own agenda for now, but next week their agenda may change, as they target different demographics for votes. But in the end, they are both just corrupt, political factions.

  • uselogic

    Just off-hand, did you see who authored the report? A bunch of the same ol’, same ol’ big government, RINO consultants who gave us the Romney defeat. If there was ever a report to question the self-serving motives, it’s this one. Following it to progressive, DemoLitesville really would be hari kari.

    Better organization (read ground game), following & following through on core principles and explaining how your positions help all Americans are a better prescription. And maybe have your candidates fight back once in awhile.

    Doesn’t hurt that the libertarian Koch brothers are considering buying up/investing in some of the old-school, lefty media. Tit for tat. Watch the LibNazis’ heads explode if that happens. Could be a whole new ball game that renders thhsi report even more useless.

  • Texas Ride

    What we are seeing is the “death thros” of the Republican Party! Priebus is another “Sellout.” He is like Bohner, McCain, the Monkey and all the other RINOs. Conservatives are leaving the “Party” in droves because they are fed-up with the capitulation of conservative principles. We might as well come to realize that there is “only one” party!

    I hope these RINO don’t believe the promises that have been made to them. These “turncoats” will be held in contempt by both sides. The radical demonrats will use them and then they will be eliminated. You can’t “deal with the devil” and come out unscathed.

  • ChristyK

    I don’t like that Chip putting Marco Rubio in the same category as Rand Paul & Ted Cruz. Marco Rubio is a power hungry politician that will say anything to get elected and seeks the presidency for its power and prestige even though he is not a natural born citizen (just a citizen). Rand Paul & Ted Cruz are principled men who stand up to both the Democrat and Republican leadership. Look closely at Marco Rubio’s voting record. He disobeys the constitution continually and steals are liberties through support bills like the Patriot Act (self written search warrants) and the NDAA (indefinite detention w/o trial). He only talks conservative and most of his best conservative talk is just following other popular conservatives that alread brought up the subject (like joining Rand’s filibuster).

  • Michael Peppe

    This report sounds to me like the kind of political malware virus only the subtlest and most diabolical minds of the Democratic Party could dream up. I watch the news every day, mouth agape, as, following the tiniest of Presidential squeak-by defeats in November (only 3% of the popular vote!), the needlessly self-whipped (poor baby!) and intimidated Republicans allow the liberal media to steamroller them into thinking that what they now need to do, because of this CRUSHING LANDSLIDE, is to disavow all of their most cherished and deep and long-held conservative principles and try to be a kind of slow-to-catch-up grampa Ed McMahon to the Dem’s quick brown Johnny Carson, always losing to the Democrats in playing the very game they most revile them for!: racial, ethnic, genderal and sexual bean-counting: technocratic demographic divisiveness and exploiting social, ethnic and sexual resentment. Issues like Gay Marriage, Immigration and Sovereignty, National Security/Terrorism, Christian issues generally—-these are all not just “Special Interests”, but core issues and principles that go to the beating heart and soul of what a conservative is. If you’re just a businessman who just wants a break on taxes, or a contractor who just wants cheap illegal labor, or a big-shot CEO who just wants to marry her gal-pal, who needs you?! If it weren’t so agonizingly painful and infuriating and tragic, I would have to laugh, to see all four major networks, and above all PBS, BBC, RT, MSNBC, CNN, etc. endlessly, gleefully, analyze and dissect the “discord” and “self-searching” and “inward-turning” conservatives are supposed to be doing, writhing in moral agony in a kind of political mud-wrestling pit, down on their knees in the mud in the rain, begging Latinos and Women and African-Americans and Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered Persons to please, please, PLEASE FORGIVE US!!! WE WERE BORN THIS WAY!!! As one of the suddenly pervasively despised group of straight white males who have so suddenly and unceremoniously in the last year or so disappeared from TV commercials, talk-shows, music-acts, news anchor/’host-chairs, action-hero movies and sit-coms (except as the usual a**h***/bumbler/Homer) the “stuffy old white men” the party central seems so suddenly ashamed of, I find their logic, if not itself racist, then at least extremely Democratic, which is slightly different. For one thing, by caving in on immigration, Republicans immediately let loose the floodgates on the power, influence and status of millions of people who will overwhelmingly and permanently vote Democratic and liberal, people the Democrats and liberals have been stockpiling here since 1965, when their mighty “Lion” Teddy Kennedy legislatively opened the national floodgates to an unlimited amount of immigration, the elimination of caps and quotas, and the general opening of the borders that began in the 60′s under Dem rule. Their relentless pressure over 50 years to open the borders in search of votes results in precisely that, every time you amnesty an immigrant. The weakening of border security, the lessening of penalties, the provision of health, welfare, employment benefits and driver’s licenses—all these issues have worked stupendously well for the Democrats for many decades, in their relentless post-60′s struggle against native and traditional values. Now, after 50 years of ethnic race-baiting, playing whites off against immigrants, especially Latinos, fomenting the hatred that is the source of their power, the Democrats are poised to rake in the biggest politico–demographic jackpot of all time: 11-15 million new Democratic voters, all wrigglin’ in the same net, all of whom Republicans now must beg apologetically and abjectly for votes, having been late to their sudden beatification. But the Gay Marriage issue is a still harder and weightier issue, because it is an even more deeply moral one. Destroying or desecrating or distorting a 200-year old tradition like gun rights or property rights or speech rights is one thing (bad enough): destroying a 2,000–year-old tradition of human, universal and sacred moral value, enshrined in history, custom, religion and biology, is quite something else. I question whether or not we/I/our generation even have the RIGHT (sorry, I can’t find the italics) to defile such a primal, ancient, sacred tradition. In fact one can see in this Report the unmistakable outlines of exactly the same kind of axe Gay activists used just a few years ago to split the 300+-year old American Episcopalian Church in two, severing and dispossessing millions of American Believers of their mother Anglican church. Anyone who thinks American liberals are not out to destroy Christianity in America has their head in the sand that is up their ass. These Edge issues—much sharper than mere Wedge issues—are being used almost as if by a master surgeon/butcher, to quite deliberately chop the Republican party into two: the business/Wall St./deficit-hawk/no-social-principles/Rand Paul reformists who want votes at any cost, and the other men, women, whites, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Arabs, Native Americans, native Americans and even young people who believe in having firm moral principles and values. The more the Republican elephant shies away in fear of these its molten core values and principles—many but not all of them religious or Christian—the sooner the Democrats will be measuring their dead tusks for the ivory in Michelle Obama’s earrings……in a one-party state like the PRI in Mexico, or the Christian Democrats in Germany, in which a steady deluge of newly immigrated citizens continually pours in to vote for the Ruling Party.

  • robbiefine@hotmail.com

    So the Republican Party is “out of touch”, “narrow minded”, and filled with “stuffy old men” not mention the clowns they had speaking at their meeting. He might also have noted that GOP policies are hopelessly out of date and not very effective anyway. All and all the GOP remains a party of losers.

  • Michael

    Someone please give Priebus some more ammo – so he can shoot himself in the other foot. What a bunch of idiots. We deserve to lose with folks like this in charge of the destiny of the RNC.

    • robbiefine@hotmail.com

      But at least Priebus spoke the truth. The thing is that based on the clowns and has beens they had as speakers the party is still – as Bobby Jimbal noted – “the stupid party.” The mid terms are going to him them hard again and the White house is Hilary’s for the taking.

      • Bob666

        Yo Robbie
        when Hillary takes the Whitehouse, how many on this site will claim voter fraud?

        • macgyver1948

          Bob… Voter fraud will be called for from the Right when the switch is turned on to do so after they lose. I mean like there was never any hanging chads to complicate an election, or rigged/fraudulently programmed Diebold Voting Machines. Do you know my references?, LOL… Think back to the first bush jr election in Florida and elsewhere. Little bush lost the popular election nation wide that time but he took the White House anyway. And the jury is still out with voter ID cards from this past election. No voter fraud on the part of the GOP, HUH? I just wonder how so many TPGOP supporters just knew for sure Romney will win. That was fun… :-).

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            “I just wonder how so many TPGOP supporters just knew for sure Romney will win. That was fun… :-)”

            Yes, the little girls with imaginary friends never cease to amuse me.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob666… Yep, they must have magical crystal balls for them to be so sure as often as they were in predicting the future.

            For a typical example (have you heard of this guy from this site, Personality Liberty, as an article writer?):

            Romney wins in a landslide — Las Vegas oddsmaker doubles down on prediction
            By Wayne Allyn Root
            See at http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/10/09/romney-will-win-in-landslide-las-vegas-oddsmaker-doubles-down-on-prediction/

            It must be so nice to be Right all the time.

      • Tommy cunningham

        I think they were predicting Romney would win because they figured people wouldn’t be stupid enough to vote for Obama a second time for more of the same failed socialist ideas. Me I voted for Ron Paul, I would rather deal with the inconveinance’s of to much liberty than to those attending to little a degree of , we need to get back to a constitutionally limited republic. We don’t live in a democracy.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

        Our whole political system is “Fraudulent”. Why then is the accusation of “voter-fraud” so hard to believe? Both sides have accused the other of voter-fraud,,,when Bush won, the Democrats cried voter-fraud…when Obama won, the GOP cried voter-faraud. But this is just another issue to keep the masses divided and fighting amongst each-other…the Elite toy with the stupefied-masses like a cat toys with a mouse.

        • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

          Well Jay, You bring up some good points about the question of integrity regarding the election process. ~

          The right has Acorn and the abuses that have been uncovered.

          And the Left has Dade County, and all the electoral votes of Florida hanging in the balance while a single Republican judge deciding who would be our President.

          along with Republican governors of no less the three state attempt to restrict the DNC vote by restricting access to the polls.

          not to mention Mitt Romney son, deciding to invest in the vote machine business months prior a general elect.

          All of this has to stop.

          • tony newbill

            I agree DEERINWATER that all needs to end and the way to end it is with a proper ID system . and this be part of the registering to vote timeline like we have in our state where you have to be registered before a certain time to vote in the elections . Plus the system of voting needs people tallying the votes not machines , and those JOBS be paid for from a Fund thats equally funded by the Parties campaigns contribution funds . I mean look at the Billions these campaigns are now costing and lots of that cash sure could be appropriated towards staff in the vote tallying .

        • robbiefine@hotmail.com

          The reason mass voter fraud is hard to believe is because at each voter station their are representatives of the different parties and/or the candidates who are running in that district. If there was fraud one or another of these citizens would be shouting out about it. It is very had – impossible perhaps – to keep secrets when it comes to politics in America.

  • awkingsley

    Chip is right on this one. The GOP just got more out of touch. The real issue that keeps young people on the opposite side of the line is “WAR”. Republicans will not admit this because they will give up everything else in order to fight. After all, Establishment Republicans are foolish enough to support Globalist Socialists like the Bushes and Romney, until they destroy America and all of its citizens – all for the chance to enter just one more fight. Unfortunately, the gullible Republicans never have understood that all the Elitists are fighting for is the Petro Dollar (U.S. Dollar) as the World’s Reserve Currency and a One-World Government. Still, Establishment Republicans do not really care about anything else but fighting. That is all they know.

    • Tommy cunningham

      It’s just not tepublicans that have unnessary wars/conflicts every war we have been involved in since 1900 have been needless except World War II , of these wars/conflics 5have been entered under democratic presidents . WWI, Korea , Vietnam, Bosnia, Libya ….3 under republican presidents…Iraq 1, iraq2, Afghanistan. The problem with the rep party is they are trying to please everyone and it doesn’t work. I was a republican, but now I’m a independent…. Mainly because the do not stick to constitution principles and want to compromise on my liberty for the “greater good”., also the whole immigration thing, I don’t want Illegals here, it’s fine to immigrate here legally, but if illegal then put in jail and deport! Want support republicans, lay off my 2 nd admendment rights, not yours to compromise on, was born with my rights, so no man or goverment has any business taking them or compromising with them for any reason!!!! That’s why u can’t win, u have no back bone anymore. The whole race issue is just Bs, as Lincoln was the first republican president and it wa the democratic south that were bigots with the Jim Crow laws.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      With all due respect awkingsley. If you think Bush and Romney were socialists than you don’t know what socialism is.

      Here is the definition of socialism:

      1
      : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
      2
      a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
      b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
      3
      : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

      • macgyver1948

        Jeremy Leochner… This has got to be the BS Fascist/Nazi definition of Socialism because it isn’t even the dictionary one. Try reading the dictionary to really know the meaning. Both Fascist/Nazi, on the extreme Right, and Communism, on the extreme Left, fit your definition to a point for each. Fascist/Nazi felt people could have their private ownership but only if they are Nazi. Commies seem to feel only the Government can. What we have had here in America since it beginnings was a very middle of the road form of Socialism based on the dictionary – (Socialism – Laws set by government for the safety and protection for all concerning the production and distribution of goods). Without regulation and laws here we would be dead in the water with loads of problems, so much more than we do now, and many corporations would be stomping on everyone to get all they want. We have to prevent that from happening too.

        Here in America we have laws and regulations to keep things flowing as well as possible and for all to have a fair shot at it. Your definition distorts reality from an American or free nation’s point of view. I think that is the Right of it.

        I have seen your definition of Socialism before and it doesn’t fit here, thank God. Let’s keep it that way.

      • Vicki

        macgyver1948 says:
        “Jeremy Leochner… This has got to be the BS Fascist/Nazi definition of Socialism because it isn’t even the dictionary one.”

        Who’s dictionary are you using? It looks like a direct quote from Websters. Too bad Jeremy forgot to provide a link.

        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism
        Definition of SOCIALISM
        1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

        2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
        b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

        3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

      • Vicki

        macgyver1948 says:
        “Both Fascist/Nazi, on the extreme Right, and Communism, on the extreme Left, fit your definition to a point for each. Fascist/Nazi felt people could have their private ownership but only if they are Nazi. Commies seem to feel only the Government can.

        Left/right is not a really good paradigm for government control of things as both groups you describe have in common 100% government control. A better paradigm is 100% vs limited vs 0% government as explained in this video.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY

        • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

          Then why would anyone wish to support and defend an extremist of either strip Vicky?

          It makes little sense while I accept ones “rights and personal freedom” to hold either view.

          I have accepted it as a fact that the world offers us very few “absolutes” ~ We are all living or dying or some point in between these two points of the live cycle.

          I have accepted that I die and live a little each day. ~ I loose some things and I gain some things.

          As for government, much like my family ~ it is something inherited by birth , by the fact that I was born and had no say in the matter.

          I could have been born into a family held in bondage in the diamond mines of Africa and be a boy soldier by the age of 9. Seen my sisters sold off , my father’s arms cut off because of the village we lived in was viewed in a bad light. So now he can’t work or fight and must be feed by the rest of us.

          But I wasn’t. ~ I was born here in the US in a clinic at the end of WWII. ~ At a time of ideological battles between to great nations. ~ I grew up in this shadow. ~

          Today we are a nation that spends more money on military then the rest of the entire world combined under the premise of peace through strength.

          To devote that much money to these endeavor requires a “collective effort” ~ so to maintain so an ambitious effort requires a certain amount socialism. Where as in the fabric of this military that is little democracy offered other then the “election process” and the checks and balances offered by opposition of democratic process.

          I did not create this arrangement ~ I am quite frankly not that bright and in awe of our founders for their wisdom and insight to found such a great nation, forged in the fire of desire for freedom and baptized in the blood of faith and commitment.

          We should be thankful for the government that we have that serves to insure these personal freedoms. ~

          This constant attack of all things government is not constructive. While it is good that we have Vanguards like Mr. Livingston and people like yourself and Time and so many others that constantly remind us, ~ of just how bad things could get if we forget how we came to be.

          • tony newbill

            Dearinwater says ; ” Today we are a nation that spends more money on military then the rest of the entire world combined under the premise of peace through strength” .

            Dear in water as DEPENDENT on Foreign Parts supplies we are since we been totally out sourced in our ability to produce our own parts supplies and Just put down that defense system and see how long you maintain a supply of those parts that feed your current way of life !!

            Folks this is how Ignorant we have been come with what this Out sourcing has done to our now BEING SERFS and why we have a debt …. wake UP !!!!!!

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            Tony say; “Dear in water as DEPENDENT on Foreign Parts supplies we are since we been totally out sourced in our ability to produce our own parts supplies and Just put down that defense system and see how long you maintain a supply of those parts that feed your current way of life !! ”

            Well Tony such a comment might well apply to many American’s ~ but I have been on the outside of the Federal spent money loop all my life ~ with the exception of my two years in service which was .14 cents per hour 24/7 with combat pay. ~ It wasn’t exactly a barn burning, money making proposition . ~ and I buy American and local at every opportunity.

            While I think that I might ~ maybe understand what you are attempting to get across and that is “If it were not for military spending the US economy would be worse than what it is.”

            To that, I would say ~ Well, if that be the case, ~ we need to see greater profits from our invested dollars in the military if that be the case. ~

            We need to see some Baghdad Gold! ~ We need to seen river of Iraq ~ light crud oil flowing into our system. ~ where is it? where did it go? ~ We invested heavily n defending it.

          • tony newbill

            Deerinwater says ; “We need to see some Baghdad Gold! ~ We need to seen river of Iraq ~ light crud oil flowing into our system. ~ where is it? where did it go? ~ We invested heavily n defending it”.

            This is the exact same thing Trump said ………..

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            Well ? It only makes sense. ~ If this nation is to continue with this heavy investment in the military ~ I expect to seems some serious gains ~ Just looking a Carrier Fleet and saying ,Yep ! that ‘s a nice fleet ~~is not enough ~ make it product results worth the investment or quit investing. ~

            If two men in a row boat can delivery the same message and bring home the same amount of gold ~ why the the huge investment?

          • Bob666

            Yo Deer,
            “We need to see some Baghdad Gold! ~ We need to seen river of Iraq ~ light crud oil flowing into our system. ~ where is it? where did it go? ~ We invested heavily n defending it”.

            If we had seen that Baghdad Gold, our cost to get it would have exceeded $1,000.00 /barrel.

          • tony newbill

            BOB666 how did you come up with that 1000 bucks a barrel cost ???

          • Bob666

            Yo Tony,
            The cost of that war or One plus trillion dollars / the maximum number of barrels that we might have seen from Iraq = in excess of $1,000.00 per barrel.

            feel free to check the math.

          • tony newbill

            BOB666 OK but I think Macgyver is right that at least we could have recovered Something from the expense of Blood and Treasury right ?

          • Bob666

            Tony,
            In my life time, I saw Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm and Iraq/Afghanistan and many of these military conflicts were overshadowed by the cold war.

            This does not count dozens of smaller skirmishes that took place around the world that the USA was indirectly involved in.

            Looking at war, IMHO, the most successfully executed and just was desert storm. Our reasons were sound, to help an ally who was invaded by a thug. Many of their neighboring countries contributed along with many in the global community and our monetary cost was minimal as were the number of lives lost-and I put a high value on life.

            Powell and Schwarzkopf did not want to repeat the failures of Korea & Vietnam. The mission was set and executed, get in, do it and get out. As to your question of getting something out of Iraq for our efforts, yes we should have, but I was not foolish the believe that was possible. Many of my friends have thanked me over the last ten years for not saying -I told you so.

          • tony newbill

            BOB666 I think all these years of conflict in the 3rd world was to exploit the Cheaper labor of these areas and the Resources like Oil in these ares that were a Effort of the Federal Reserve to dominate and Consolidate the resources using the cheaper labor to produce these vital resources that keeps the Trade Currency control that the dollar as worlds trade currency has been doing . But as this effort has Enabled these 3rd world countries self reliance now they are defecting from this alliance and forming their own alliance through the guise that we created called the BRIC that NOW is the BRICS . and soon they are going to be poised to reject the dollar among themselves and this will hit the USA with Hyper Inflation on the Supply we import and the existing supply we have on the selves .

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… Did I really say that. “Blood and Treasury right”? Gee, I do not remember using those words, LOL…

          • tony newbill

            Those were John Kerrys words in 2004 when he asked bush what the Iraqi Occupation accomplished for all the Blood and Treasury ???

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… “War! What is it good for…Absolutely Nothing!”. Do you remember whose words those were? Here is my attempt to answer to that question asked by Edwin Starr.

            I wrote and published this poem many years ago. You might see some Vietnam influence in it, the war I was in the Air Force during, but it is about all wars for me. I thought of my below poem when we realized little bush sent us into Iraq.

            WAR, WHAT IS THE USE?

            They say it’s crazy, they say it’s sad…
            But the whole human race goes on being mad.

            We read the phrases from the good book…
            But it’s as though we never really took a look.

            We claim to be right, they claim they are not wrong…
            Then both sides justify it in slogan and battle song.

            It’s funny the way the mighty are tall…
            But when they get mad it’s the young who must fall.

            How quick the mighty will call for the gun…
            How quick would they be if it were them or even their son.

            With the blood that we shed and the death and the pain…
            There is always more room on the wall for a name.

            So what do we prove when we go out to war???
            I can’t think of anything except for the score.

            You would think by now Man would get it right…
            But we keep finding reasons to purify the fight.

            One of these days we will stop hurting each other…
            Sadly, until then, we must try to kill our brother.

            The politician comes up with with his holy excuse…
            Then the rest of us must engage in personal abuse.

            Congressman says “roll back son it’s not about you any more”…
            As he asks for his tea he shows you his mighty door.

            Again I ask—WAR, WHAT IS THE USE???!!!
            A poem by Steve…

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            “How quick the mighty will call for the gun…
            How quick would they be if it were them or even their son”.

            One thing that I have noticed. In my day, we all had selective service numbers (666 was the last three of mine) and you always knew there was a potential for a draft. In Korea and Vietnam, everyone knew a kid that was wounded or got killed and it was because that kid was in your community. War was more brutal with less technology.

            While it is not un common to hear about member of the military getting killed in the middle east every week, our society has become use to those reports like where the DOW ends every day.

            Until every American get personally touched by the death of a friend or family member, war will be easy to wage.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… We go along becoming less and less sensitive to murder, even the mass murder in wars, if it carries with it a slogan for justification. I do not like it which is one of the reasons I wrote that poem in the first place.

            So, I finally know where the 666 in your name comes from. Do you remember some on here tried to use that for defining you as evil. Just goes to show they have way too much evil in their hearts and minds. It seems everything is evil to them if it doesn’t agree with their definition of good to them or if they just do not understand what they are disagreeing with or objecting to. I guess our liberty will never win with them, only theirs is justified – which also contradicts the meaning of personal liberty. Good for them.

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            666 was the last three numbers of my selective service number, first student ID number at a major university and my employee number as an intern at a major bank. If those three numbers had been 444, I would be Bob444. it has been a family joke since I was a young man.

            It is amazing what ignorant people will read into something with out asking a simple question.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… I say it only matters what the creator and user of his/her name means and no way what others what it to mean. They see only what they want to see in “666”. As a Jew to me what that number represents as part of a prophecy of Danial’s from the Hebrew Bible, which came true in the year 70 AD, I wouldn’t care now.

            1948 in Macgyver1948 stands for the year I was born. When I created that user name in the mid 1980′s for an AOL account I got tired of finding a name that wasn’t already taken and they appended a 12 digit number to my Macgyver name so I made it my year. Those AOL accounts no longer exist but I use the names when I feel like it. Macgyver is just one of my all time favorite TV characters.

            Your last line in your comment is sadly correct of some.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… The cost of the little bush’s immoral invasion is still costing us big bucks to today. The ROI on his war is no where near worth it and that is if we forget little bush lied through his teeth to get us to do his immoral invasion.

          • tony newbill

            Macgyver1948 Obama opening pandoras box with the takeover the Middle east by the Muslim Brotherhood is costing and will cost us everything as this plays out . And the only reason why he took this chance was for the Last Ditch effort of his Boss at the federal Reserve to retain the dollars grip in the Global market of oil . But its going to fail because The alliance of the BRICS is fast approaching and they are already trading around the dollar within their own markets as the Evidence of the Federal Reserves monetizing of the US treasuries proves , once Cyprus falls on Monday the divide of the EU away from the dollar as settlement for euro transactions outside of the Eurozone will take place and this last Domino will bring on the dollar collapse

            Benghazi showed the BRICS and the Middle East will not stay loyal to the BEAST as the 10 toed giant breaks apart due to their greed for power among themselves . Its all in the prophesy of Iron and Clay as Revelations Preaches …..

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… I really believe Obama’s being nice to the Muslim Brotherhood  for diplomatic reasons but how can we really know. Better not to anger an already beast if you do not have to. I strongly believe Obama would back Israel against even the Muslim Brotherhood as he would against Syria or Iran or Al-Querida or Hamas.

            As for Benghazi. Well, at least you didn’t say Obama and Hilary tried to cover up their part in it. We should know at first they were saying what they were told, as any politician would, and then corrected it as more and reliable intel arrived, as any decent politician would. They were saddened by it from the first as we are were.

            What Beast are you referring to? Just want to be sure. I do not believe in Revelations much as I do not accept The New Testaments as my bible but that is ok since you are quoting from it and you have that right.

          • Bob666

            Yo Mac,
            You will get no argument from me on your comment. I was answering the question that Tony posed; should we have gotten something out of the invasion of Iraq?

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… I got ya… :-)

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            Tony, I believe that BOB’s barrel cost estimate ~ is including the cost to defend it as per the Carter Doctrine of 1980 in response to unrest in the Middle East

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Doctrine

            American pay dearly for our oil in more way then just at the pump.

            Both the Pacific and European Command come into play when national interest in the Middle East is at rick.

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            Where did the oil or oil money go you ask? Most of it went to Haliburton oil interests. Do the research. Follow the money.

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            so you believe that DIck Chaney might have got his hands on it? ~ Well, I have not looked ~ but I think so as well.

          • tony newbill

            Robbiefine there you go again letting your bias skew the truth !!!! , Its Ok to be Emotional but you need to be careful with your facts ,

            China Outbids Oil Majors in Iraq
            http://www.thestreet.com/story/11267956/1/china-outbids-oil-majors-in-iraq.html

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            If you do not realize that plenty of money was made by many American companies because of the war then you really have no idea how the world works. Also, oil is a global commodity and there is a global price. You just don’t get a better price from one place or another. Did you know by the way, that the U.S. actually exports refined oil? Why don’t you complain to the oil companies to keep that oil within the U.S. and thereby reduce the cost to American consumers. Of course that will never happen because the oil giants make billions upon billions from high retail prices not to mention by selling refined oil elsewhere. Of course you personally are probably a free enterprise type who does not mind when the big boys rip off the general public to the tune of billions. Freedom to make a profit right? Enjoy.

          • tony newbill

            Robbiefine the plutocracy thats formed over the years of a failed Trade policy that was Implemented by a Bureaucracy thats Ideologically strung out about world overpopulation and has the Career Congress in their pocket voting for economic ZERO Growth policies is no reason to just give up and be satisfied with Government running everything … when past historic events that simulated these kinds of Bolshevism and Nazism that ended in the greatest century of human destruction ever recorded .

            We must sustain the Homeland from a Globalist shift that wants to shape the 21st century !!!!!!!

          • macgyver1948

            robbiefine… :-)…

          • Jeff

            Certainly a lot went to Halliburton and just as certainly Cheney continued to benefit from Halliburton’s financial success. Just like Romney may have severed ties with Bain Capital but continues to reap huge rewards from the company’s outsourcing of jobs. I don’t think his financial stake in Halliburton played a major role in his decision to invade Iraq, but I do think it played a major role in the awarding of the no-bid contracts. What would Harry Truman have thought of Cheney? Remember he made his reputation in the Senate going after war profiteers. Remember when that was considered a bad thing? That was pre-Reagan, Gekko, and Romney.

          • tony newbill

            Yeah and “Tony” Rezko , Rod Blagojevich , and the gobs of others who bribe and crony their way around Government is OK ????

          • Jeff

            I don’t know what Tony Rezko did to deserve billing with Dick Cheney. He has a dangerous-sounding name like Soprano or Spilotro, but that kind of corruption is minor league compared to the kind of world-class war profiteering I was describing. You guys would always rather focus on the small fish than the big ones. I hear there are welfare cheats scamming the system of hundreds of dollars. Meanwhile, Halliburton scammed many millions but were relatively well protected. I’m sure nobody went to jail.

          • macgyver1948

            Hay Jeff, hows it going? Guess what/who is missing on this page that helps to make it better. Hint, it is a she. lol…

          • tony newbill

            DEARINWATER , why would anyone support the transfer of our taxpayers Money into the Pockets of EXTREMISTS who are doing these kinds of things , just to create a JOB ??????
            $385K to study length of duck penis , plus the other list of things here are EXTREME wouldn’t you say ?????
            Seriously lets have a Legitimate debate about how the appropriations is confiscating and pocketing the wealth of the people thats IN DEBT FORM !!!!!!

            http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2013/03/23/385k-to-study-length-of-duck-penis/

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            tony say , “DEARINWATER , why would anyone support the transfer of our taxpayers Money into the Pockets of EXTREMISTS who are doing these kinds of things , just to create a JOB ??????

            Well Tony, ~ it’s true that we were promised that Tax break creates jobs ~ after 11 years of taxes breaks and only massive job loss ~ I consider that line of thinking unsound or just a huge lie ~ take your pick.

        • macgyver1948

          Vicki… I know that both Commies and Fascist/Nazis are not the issue from which side they are on but that they do control everything. I agree with you, I was just describing their political standing but I hope we do not have to deal with either here.

          Also too much American government is not the best situation either but we need common sense regulations or we we have anarchy of the Plutocracy kind which is what it seems the Right is working so hard for.

      • Tommy cunningham

        Bush and Romney wasn’t socialist’s . However the modern rep. Party lean farther left and it discourages people. I left the party of McCain was nominated, who wants anyone in office who will violate the constitution , for example the McCain Fingold bill where a person cannot express there option with 500 feet of a poll both, as I recall the 1rst admendment starts out with “congress shall make NO law” or anyone in the rep party who voted for the NDAA in which 5th and 6th admendment is violated or the patriot act where the 4th admendment is violated. Ect…… I’m a constitutionalist and I will not vote for the lesser of two evils as both is no good. That us why the Republican Party is doing bad, because they compromise where they should stand like a rock. Last, the basic definition of socialism is- a state run economy. Just a little bit is bad and I won’t vote for anyone willing to compromise with socialism just to appear by partisan. This is their mistake and the reason I’m a registered independent , I lean right of center as our founders did, our republic was established right of center and that’s where it needs to stay.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Macgyver

        I have read the dictionary. The definition I gave is the Merriam Websters definition of Socialism. Don’t believe me:

        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

        • macgyver1948

          Jeremy Leochner … Why do you think our government has been controlling interstate traffic for goods almost since the beginning? Even some for intrastate. It is so people are treated fairly and not just to control. There would be mindlessness if there weren’t rules. If you do not like the word Socialism then don’t use it but regulations and rules are necessary for good reasons if the structures and agendas of those regulations are with common sense and are needed to begin with. It is like thinking Social Security is a Socialism scheme because the word “social” is in there. Not everything is evil when there are rules.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Tommy

        I agree with you that the NDAA and the Patriot Act violate the constitution. However neither of those are examples of the Republican party leaning left. I am a liberal and my views tend to fall under the term of “the left”. I support neither of those acts. I agree that our founders were rather centrist in their views. But I disagree that left versus rights plays into how we should run our republic.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Macgyver

        I am not entirely sure what your politics are but I think we are on the same side. I simply stated the dictionary definition of socialism. I wasn’t trying to say government or rules or regulations are bad. I myself am a Social Democrat. I like having rules and regulations. And I also disagree with those who label social security socialism just because social is in there. I was using the definition of socialism against awkingsley who seemed to equate socialism with Bush and Romney. I was simply pointing out that neither of those men had policies which came anywhere near socialism. I say the same thing to those who say Obama is a socialist.

        • macgyver1948

          Jeremy Leochner … I would like to think I am more so for or against an issue/platform rather then label myself on one side or the other. But that is hard to do many times considering I do not agree with what comes out of the far Right so often. I am definitely not for Tea Party because I do not see them as their press would imply.

          I too do not think either Romney or little bush are Socialists as they may apply to the dictionary definition you offered. I do, however feel they both are properties of the Norquists of the world and Romney would take their orders if he was elected President. I guess we could say, in that regard, Mitt would socialize with those who want to own our government because he would be told to.

          You last sentence “I say the same thing to those who say Obama is a socialist”. Well, I am with you on that too. When I hear Obama is a commie or Hitler or even Satan himself, yes I hear that on this site and other far Right sites, I have to wonder just how much programmed those guys are.

          I am a registered Democrat so I can receive material from them but I also receive things from the GOP. I am in touch with both my State’s Senators, one is a she and a Dem and the other is a male GOP. My GOP Senator in one of the emails we have exchanged said to me “I guess we will have to agree that we will not often agree”. To that I replied. “you finally got something right”. I have received phone calls from both their offices in DC but it was not from either of them personally. Anyone can do this as a US citizen so I am not special in that.

          I see we might be on the same side as you suggest, wanting what is best for the country for all citizens equally. Looking back at the definition you presented for Socialism I felt that was to extreme to be realistic in how it covered all degrees of it. I am sorry if I gave you a different impression especially since I came across too harshly in my response to it. I do not see today’s European Socialism as evilly as I do Hitler’s, not even close, but I still wouldn’t want their’s here for us. I like being able to do my own things and when I need a doctor I do not want the ones so heavily financing it with my money telling me my limitations.

          We do agree that we need regulation on Corporations but that is something the TP controlled GOP is fighting, another reason I cannot be Tea.

          Well, do you have an idea now what my politics are? What is ever best for each of us and not just for what the corporations want for themselves and are getting through their owned politicians. I do not care what your politics are if you are for what is best for all of us and you never have to agree with me.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Macgyver

        1: I respect your position on labels.

        2: I can agree with you on Romney and Norquist, The only area I would disagree is when you mentioned that “Mitt would socialize with those who want to own our government because he would be told to”. The reason I disagree is handing over the government to special interests is not socialism in any way. People often use the term socialism to describe things like that. A far more accurate term would be cronyism or crony capitalism.

        3: I think for the most part those who criticize Obama have legitimate concerns. The problem is people go over board and go from criticizing him to demonizing him.

        4: I think you have the right idea about being politically involved. There are a large number of Americans who feel disillusioned and feel that government is out of touch. I believe that feeling is where conspiracy theories like Obama is Hitler come from.

        5: I think when it comes down to it a strict adherence to any system won’t work. A purely socialist system won’t work any more than a pure capitalist system would. That’s why I like Social Democracy. It grants the rules and regulations to prevent mistakes and abuse. While still granting me the freedom to acquire wealth.

        6: I like to think most Tea Party people at least in the beginning were fighting inefficient and redundant regulations rather than regulation itself. I think as time went on they and by assimilation the GOP became corrupted by people with more extreme views. Where once the enemy was irresponsible and unaccountable government now the enemy was government itself. I think this video offers a nice insight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGsLhyNJBh8

        7: You and I are actually quite alike Macgyver. All that matters to me is what is right and what is best for the people. What that is I don’t know for sure. But I will keep looking for it till I find it.

        • macgyver1948

          Jeremy Leochner… So, you disagree with me when I said Mitt would socialize with those who want to own the government. Actually I was kidding. I do not think even Norquist is a Socialists, I believe he loves control and money way to much for him to be that. I was playing with the word “socialize” in that Mitt would hang out with them for when they would want to give him instructions but I guess I was too subtle.

          When the Right criticizes Obama there are some legit concerns for sure because we should always be watchful of who ever is in office. I think that should be a function of the out party. I see the “going over board” on the part of the Right as their ways of overstating their concerns but excessively. I am being polite in how I state that. Many of those on the Right more than just want the opposition out with Obama, and themselves in of course, some do not like his color and some see him as the anti them in their goals to help do away with things like regulations and never raising taxes “NO MATTER WAHT” even when reality dictates the need. We can expand that by including bringing back “temporary tax cuts” such as the little bush tax breaks (yes, they were billed as temporary when little bush asked for them), to their normal levels when their life span should die out. That, again is part of why Norquist meant the budget should go back to the size it was, the “bath tub” size, at the beginning of the 20th century and not this century.

          On your number 4. For our “Citizens Government” to work we do need to be involved. The more we stay uninvolved the more those who “represent” us will feel they can do as they please and and just pay attention to the demands of those who pay them the most at campaign pledge time. We need to make the representatives be more fearful of us, their constituents in general, then they are of those with the big monies and I mean at the polls but that is in our control and we aren’t showing them that.

          Your number 5 is interesting. Pure anything that restricts individual liberty will never work. That is why people over the course of human history had revolutions and why insurgencies get started. We need a prudent and common sense blend of what is needed for the people with the right mix of capitalism here at any given time to keep up with the times. So I agree with you in your Social Democracy thing. We need it where the individual’s liberties must be most important when they come up and majority rule when individual liberties are not the issue but also ways to help those who need and deserve. I think we go over board say all those who are receiving from the government, actually tax payers, are taking advantage of the help and they all take from those who have. There are some who are taking advantage of course and they need to be weeded out but there are so many who legitimately need and deserve the help they get. I know with Social Security people need to qualify according to the rules or their application gets rejected. If you haven’t paid into the minimum amounts long enough from your pay check and you do not meet the minimum age, baring certain ongoing provable disabilities, you are rejected. Medicare is a monthly premium paid-or by the person so that is a legit program for those who qualify and need health insurance as well. I can see only the nasty and greedy and selfish and the apathetic who are against these programs.

          Your Number 6. I too believe most of the main stream people in the Tea Party as really concerned for the country and I see many of them starting out that way. The problem is with those at the top of Tea, their leaders, who are not in it for the country but more so for the control and ownership of the Government for their purposes. For example, if you research the Koch Family, not just the brothers but their dad as well, you will see they are bigots and in it only for control and what will benefit the very wealthy and the corporations as well. After joining Tea the main stream get so saturated with what is said by the leaders, in their propagandized ways, they lose sight of what real liberty is about. Well, that is how I see Tea. Teas roots are in the John Birch Society and Fred Koch, the Bros dad, was one of the founders of it in the 50s and they were so anti Civil Rights and anti anything that wouldn’t strictly benefit the big Corporations. The bros learn learned and carried on well from dad. To The JBS, an who were not totally with their causes were labeled commie, such as they did with President Eisenhower. Ike was not more commie than Presidents Washington or Thomas Jefferson. Then there is today the Commie President Obama. What a load of you know what.

          You end with your number 7. We need to always be vigilant in our search for what is best for the people, each person’s best or how can we tell the difference between us and those we call our enemies? We need a respective and prudent balance between what is needed but the individual and the corporations because we cannot survive, let alone grow, without profitable businesses. We need to make sure the workers are getting a fair deal from their employers and the execs feel they can invest so their company can grow. I will never trust execs to do what is fair for the employees without regulations and a representation for the workers who do not owe their paychecks to the company. Unions need to be as regulated as the companies but they do serve a good purpose. I do not like right to work states because that gives the boss all the power and the worker almost none but that is another issue.

          I have seen how Ombudsmen programs in Companies and open door policies are so one sided in how they favor only the company so that is why workers need reps who are not employed by the company. Politicians in Right To work States help the employers so much more than they help the workers so who can the workers go to when they have a problem? These are just part of the reasons we each need to keep looking for the right mix of government and individual concerns.

          Thanks for your responses.

      • Vicki

        macgyver1948 says:
        “Jeremy Leochner … Why do you think our government has been controlling interstate traffic for goods almost since the beginning? Even some for intrastate. It is so people are treated fairly and not just to control.”

        It is not the business of government to make people treat each other “fairly”. Unless you meant to say that government is to make sure that people do not use force or fraud on others.

        - macgyver1948: “There would be mindlessness if there weren’t rules.”

        Obviously not because the buyer and seller will both have rules.

        - macgyver1948: “It is like thinking Social Security is a Socialism scheme because the word “social” is in there. Not everything is evil when there are rules.”

        I notice you said NOT everything is evil when there are rules. This leads to the obvious conclusion that there are things that are evil even with rules. Social Security is an obvious example. Tell me exactly where in the Constitution we gave the federal government the power to force you to save for retirement? Tell me what happened to the money that was supposed to be in the Social Security Trust Fund.

        • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

          I’m coming in on the middle of this discussion ~ and hold no bias to one poster over another. ~ but I have had many years of experience with rules and regulation.

          You can’t escape from having rules. They will always be something to contend with, regardless of the kind of government or your position in society, rules will be with us always.

          Rules are basically a baseline of intent by the party(s) responsible for crafting these rules.

          What is to be achieved by mandating these rules? Fairness, safety, protection, minimum standards, security, morality , organization, generation of income or taxes? The reason many.

          While, ~ I would not say that rules alone without any enforcement of these rules are worthless and serve no purpose ~ for that would just not be so. As we see that the public posting of rules places everyone on notice and offered society or an industry a guideline as to conduct and behavior.

          The problems we have with rules is in the enforcement or lack of enforcement by selective enforcement of these rules.

          That we see the picking and choosing of which rules are to be enforced and to whom they are to be applied too creates a lot of resentment among those chosen.

          I was actively engaged in the HVAC industry for 18 years before the state of Texas mandated licensing. ~ Still young and eager to be a successful business man and professional at the time. I accepted this as a good thing ~ it would remove the ones that failed to comply , creating standards in the market place. ~ People that failed to invest in education, in insuring and responsibility, in tools and equipment and coming up to the standards mandated ,would be forced out of the industry.

          What I didn’t know, was that the state would come down on licensed contractors with both feet and only enforce administrative penalties for the next 15 years!

          ~ If we failed to notify a change of business address in 30 days. ~ To keep our licenses, a Fine of 750.00 had to be paid. ~ Any advertising that failed to display our state license number , $500.00 per offence. The display of a state 1-800 had to be print on each customer invoice, failure to do so. ~ $500.00. ~ ETC! etc ~ it was endless and petty and had little to do with craftsmanship or quality.

          We endured this attack by the state for 15 years ~ before the State of Texas even begin their active enforcement of unlicensed HVAC contractors. ~~When they finely did so, they removed 30 to 50 HVAC contractors a week of three years running. And only then did my business begin to flourish.

          In that 15 years I lose any respect I had for state government, ~ as I struggled to compete with market forces on a very un-level playing field.

          For you can’t compete in price with a unlicensed , uninsured moonlighters that are stealing from his employer and working out of the truck of his car on the side ~ It made for a hard 15 years of scratching to get by ~ and a very demoralizing experience.

          It is true, ~ that price is not the only factor that a consumer must consider and that was exactly what I was left to work with. ~ Those few bright consumers that understand quality workmanship and professionalism over rode brand names and cheap prices.

          Those few consumers that understood that a low end products installed well would out preform Top line products installed poorly or misapplied all together. ~ While the average consumer is just not that bright but size and price oriented. ~ Bigger and cheaper is better is common thinking. ~ unable to see the saving in operating cost for the life of the equipment could make a nice down payment on a new house.

          15 poor preforming years in a career of 40 years ~ is a large chuck of time ~ time and money I can never get them back ~` and this was all because of “Rules”. and how and who they were applied.

          Now , today ~ my day almost done ~ left with the experience to offer to younger men who follow in my footsteps. ~ “Fair” seems to have little to do with it , so don’t expect “fair” from government and learn to use rules to your advantage as best you can. Support your industry and the organizations that represent your industry, be noisy, suit up and show up. ~ or learn to fly under the radar and cast no shadow. ~

        • tony newbill

          Vicki ask Macgyver1948 if he is ready to meet his Death Panels Stars that will be hosting the Obamacare reality shows called “Dancing with Devil ” that starts in 2014 ?

          http://money.msn.com/investing/why-we-need-death-panels

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… I responded to you on the death panel thing… Interesting slant in this site you offer titled “why we need Death Panels”.

        • tony newbill

          Vicki the Double talking Administration that says one thing to appease the supporters and does other things to keep shop open for the NDAA seems to take on a form of what you question Macgyver on regarding the way rules change the shape of evil which our Bill of Rights was suppose to guard citizens from , ….

          Four years after Obama promised to close it, Guantanamo Bay military prison will get $195.7 million in renovations and new construction

          http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2013/03/24/what-sequester-guantanamo-to-get-upgrades/

        • macgyver1948

          Vickie… You are a comedian I see. It is the Government’s place to make laws, rules, to protect us from each other. It is the Constitution that is in place to protect us from government. It is why murder is against the law. People should, if moral and ethical, should treat each other fairly but it is so damn obvious there are many people who have no decent ethics and/or morals there becomes a need of a so-called caring Government to make those rules. It can be referred to as Civilization.

          Yes, I did say “NOT everything is evil when there are rules”. I think there are some rules who are over done so you could be right in your assumption of my statement. I think we very much need regulations over business for safety as well as fairness but there are some which go over board. For example, if many in the exec ranks get their way there would be no minimum wage and then it wouldn’t be worth the price of gas to go to work let alone pay for the family necessities. Some rules and regs are in place because greed selfishness would be common practice when at all possible for many in control. If you cannot see that then I feel so sorry for you for your lack of reality observation.

          You go on to use “I notice you said NOT everything is evil when there are rules. This leads to the obvious conclusion that there are things that are evil even with rules. Social Security is an obvious example. Tell me exactly where in the Constitution we gave the federal government the power to force you to save for retirement?”.

          Social Security as your “obvious” example? Are you kidding or what with SS as you use it here? WOW!!! Yes, Social Security is obviously NOT in the Constitution. But do you really think the Founders were so dumb and without foresight and vision they felt there would not be the need for adjustments in how we help our fellow citizens? Who would help all the retirees other wise? Do you really think religious organizations and others can and would if it was solely left to them? Get real if you do. People would die as they became homeless and starved without SS but I suppose you do not see that or is it that you would not care.

          President Roosevelt saw the need to help retired people adjust to getting out of the depression and then it was seen as a need from then on to help people live with diminished income until they died. Do you not have any compassion and concern for people at all? Is there any God in you? Yeah, you are right in your saying Social Security is an obvious example but one of concern and compassion for those in need and who qualify. Yeah, one thing you are doing, besides joking that is, is fighting for the Corporations want to lower their expenses, with apathy for those in need, so good for you in your fight against the people who retire along side the poor execs, they need your support. That is so Right of you.

          You last sentence to me is “Tell me what happened to the money that was supposed to be in the Social Security Trust Fund”. WOW again. That is a dumb question directed at me who had nothing to do with that taking, those thiefs if they weren’t paid back. I do believe they were taken to pay for wars we never should have been involved in, such as Vietnam. And for other things some very wealthy people wanted our politicians to support. Still they should have been repaid. I feel the politicians who took from SS and didn’t pay it back yet should do so with their own personal funds or go to jail. Yeah, good luck with that but thanks for asking me to tell you “what happened to the money that was supposed to be in the Social Security Trust Fund”. This is all so Right of you.

          • tony newbill

            Macgyver1948 Of , By and FOR THE PEOPLE is how the Congress is suppose to write the rules and laws that Govern society and that was NOT the case when Nancy Pelosi said ” We need to pass the Obamacare Law in Order to Know what is in IT !!!!

          • macgyver1948

            Tony.. I agree that laws should be for the people. I agree that it should be that way. I had a problem with Pelosi’s wording for sure when she said. We cannot pass something until we understand it. Understanding must come first because if we do not like it after it is passed we will be stuck with it for a while. I wonder how my wording here will be taken.

          • tony newbill

            And Macgyver1948 when they had to give the Corn Husker Kickback to get that VOTE , and then exempt all those Big Corps that were going to Kick the Unions healthcare to the curb because it wipes out the Profit margins to the point that its not worth being in business .

            This is why I ask why our healthcare costs are NOT IN LINE WITH the Premiums paid into the system in both public insurance and entitlement sectors ?????? the cost of healthcare treatments that Doctors and hospitals and Pharma should be capped at the accounting of these payments that people make for short and long term care , why is it not and WHO is making up this difference thats allowing the Doctors and Hospitals and Pharma to price their costs higher than this ?????

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            Tony says, “and then exempt all those Big Corps that were going to Kick the Unions healthcare to the curb because it wipes out the Profit margins to the point that its not worth being in business . ”

            Golly Gee Tony ~ It’s good that you concern yourself so with these defenseless wealthy rich bastards so. ~ Where would they be without someone such as yourself willing to tote their water? ~ If I can locate Mitt Romney’s hide-way private island address , I’ll send it to you so you can send him an Easter greeting card tell him, as long as you have a face, he’s got a place to sit.

          • tony newbill

            Listen DEERINWATER the point I am trying to make is that this situation should have never got this far in the first place that Lobbyists that Rep these Big bully fascists should be able to tell congress to subsides the Market over what a Premium payment is totaling as the true market cap of the market . Dude you need to redirect that rhetoric in a different direction SIR !!!!!!

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            Well Tony ~ on that we can agree , but you and I agreeing will be change 35 years of history. ~ Laboring Americans can never compete with oversea low tech labor where people live in grass huts and wear no shoes. ~ Even our children that we send to school is working with a larger budget then the average mill worker in Sir Lanai.

            http://www.amazon.com/Who-Stole-American-Dream-ebook/dp/B007MEWAX2

            The book has a cover that closely resembles Ron Paul’s “Tear down the Fed” ~ which too was a most enlightened view as to what is “Biting us”. ~ The wounds so small so but the bites so many, like a bed bug. ~ We’ve been under attack so long ~ they’ve go unnoticed as we look for something large and threatening to be responsible. .

          • tony newbill

            I agree DEERINWATER but we cannot think the BRICS will let our Government subsidize our quality of life with wealth redistribution methods that are not sustainable anyway and keep sucking the benefits off their labor slaves like putin says we are parasites . see how the dollar is losing favor ?

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

            Tony , our wealthy has been in redistribution for 30 years ~ The top 5 % has just about acquired everything the average American has got but what might be found in their sofa cushions. ~ We (our government) encouraged the “affluent class investor” to spend with tax cuts. ~ but few invested in the US. ~ seems rather clear at this point in time. ~ I’m angry with them, ~ I’m angry with my government for allow this disparity to happen. ~ Today we find the wealthy no long need to invest at all ~ they now have more money then a person can spent in one lifetime. ~ Unless they are allowed to rape , pillage and plunder , ~ they are no longer interested while most of middle America works on small margins of profit. ~ I grossed some 76,000. last year while my net was only $14500.00 and still I paid a higher % in Federal Taxes than Mitt Romney.

            Census: Middle class shrinks to an all-time low
            By Carol Morello,September 12, 2012

            “The vise on the middle class tightened last year, driving down its share of the income pie as the number of Americans in poverty leveled off and the most affluent households saw their portion grow, new census data released Wednesday showed.

            Income inequality increased by 1.6 percent, the Census Bureau said in its annual report on poverty, income and health insurance. This was the biggest one-year increase in almost two decades and suggested that a trend in place since the late 1970s was picking up steam.”

            The ” labor earned” dollar is valued less than the “investment earned” dollar as it is taxed higher. ~ This “status quo” has been in place since the early 80′s. ( while it was being carefully crafted 7 to 10 years prior) After 30 years of this taxing inequity ~ there can be be but only one outcome. What we see today.

            The thing is ~ that is the nature of wealth ~ to be distributed ~ We use wealth to entice, to buy , to own. to work, to invest, to support, to defend, to secure. ~

            What would wealth be without the possibility of distribution, ~ if it could not be offered, earned or stolen? .

          • tony newbill

            The redistribution accelerated in 1994-5 with the implementation of the failed WTO Trade Agreement that Redistributed the wealth and resource production that comes with the creation of wealth away from the western nations and over too lower valued currency countries , and by them being able to dump those products back into these western nations without some form of balancing method like tariffs or a Negotiated balance to the different valued currency issue that if not negotiated fairly to balance sets up a simple currency swap in the trade of goods that has been what has allowed the Multi National Corps to Consolidate the small businesses out of the western nations and relocate that industry and its wealth creation and distribution and they positioned themselves in the middle of this currency swap for the past 18 years since the WTO Trade agreement was started and this is an effect of what is called Gresham law of the 14th century that took down England in the 14th century and was when all defected from the Continent in search of a new country .

          • deerinwater

            This right wing “Taking Point” ~~ “Share the wealth” and “Wealth Redistribution” is erroneous and disingenuous at the very least. While it keeps getting repeated like it means something important and evil. ~ It mean little at all ~ It’s like saving time by number your jokes ~ If everyone knows joke # 7 ~ why bother telling the joke ~ just say #7 and everyone can have a big laugh.

            It is the “disparity” and the inequity” in the “earned dollar” that is kicking our collective ass’ets! ~ It’s now become a market forces at work., ~ too many American looking for work and too few jobs that pay enough to work those jobs. ~ so they work for less while being taxed more. ~ while the top 5% enjoyed cheaper labor and a discounted tax rate on his investment earned dollar. ~~

            Great setup Hmm? ~ For those few American’s that found themselves at the right time in history (late 70′s to mid 80′s) that had the money to invest, ~ fares rather well today. ~

            For those American’s that are just getting started in life ~ are finding the top 5% has kick over the ladder that they themselves climbed to get where they at today ~ seeing little need in completion when they have the power to avoid it.

          • tony newbill

            DEERINWATER thats Not true about the Right Wing Talking point being a Made-up dig against Obama , he says so himself in this audio , http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ge3aGJfDSg4

          • Jeff

            Who but a right winger could disagree with that statement? Eloquently stated. He didn’t even have a teleprompter back in 1998. Notice he said nothing about murdering the rich and taking all their property. He’s neither Lenin nor Robespierre! But all concerted action, all government action, involves some level of redistribution. Otherwise, only the wealthiest would get anything in society. The Chicago Housing Authority and the Chicago Schools, both of which he criticized in his talk, are publicly funded. Clearly, they represent redistribution. Do you want to close the public schools because they teach poor kids who can’t pay?

            The issue is not whether there’s going to be redistribution. It’s always going to be there. The question is always how much and for what purpose. Criticizing someone for saying he believes in some level of redistribution is like criticizing someone for saying he believes in the concept of taxation.

          • tony newbill

            Jeff you try and do what you are prescribing on a 2 % GDP and WE ALL WILL LOOSE !!!!

            You NEED growth in the Free market supply chain expanding supply that represents capital expansion and revenue increases to accomplish what you want to see done !!!

            The problem is Environmentalism has reached a extreme level thats Hamstrung political policy makers like Obama so they are resorting to redistributing existing supply and this leads to no supply expansion and Inflation and economic collapse . Dude this is not rocket science is been tried politically over and over for centuries and with only humanitarian disasters , thats why the Free market is allowed to operate properly is the best choice .
            the FTC was put in place to keep the redistribution of supply production in a Balance between Small and large Business sectors and over the past 18 years since the WTO Failed Trade Policy that was a Environmentalist Appeasement Policy to gain a Voting block of support has created this Wealth Divide and one of the Environmentalists Biggest Leaders says so , he says they Used the Trade Policy in the flawed current form to de-develop the USA and if you do that you get the results of a failed wealth distribution that the free market was designed to do with the FTC following the rule of supply consolidation not becoming to concentrated by Fascist lobbying !!! .

          • Jeff

            You stimulate growth in the economy via government action – particularly when there’s so much cash on the sidelines. Republicans recognize the stimulative effect of government spending but only when the spending is on the military. If a Republican had taken over for a Democrat in 2009 and averted a Depression as Obama has with no help from the other side, you’d be nominating him for sainthood.

          • tony newbill

            The problem with Government taking the taxpayer money to stimulate the economy is it ends up being hoarded into the pockets of the administrators of those businesses that are PICKED to stimulate and then they become cronies in the fraud and corrupt method of using taxpayer funds .

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            A business owned and operated by Michelle Bachman and her husband takes plenty of government funding. Have they become cronies of the government and, therefore, corrupt? And besides even if some businessmen are corrupt why blame the government which is merely trying to stimulate the economy? Why not blame corrupt free enterprise entrepreneurs who are actually the ones defrauding?

          • tony newbill

            your example of Bachmann is clearly reason why Government has no business directly with taxpayer funds stimulating the economy and neither does the Federal Reserve .
            We the People need to be the custodians of our treasury and Monetary system and together we decide trade Policy , funding allocations and what those polices entail .

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            Businesspeople who dupe government officials and misuse government funding meant to stimulate the economy should be punished and pay back all monies. We elect fellow citizens to administer tax money and private entrepreneurs who take advantage of the system should be brought to court.

          • macgyver1948

            robbie… I totally agree but there are many of them and that shouldn’t stop the arrests. Maybe there would be so many fewer unethical people going into politics if this happened and that would be a great thing.

          • Bob666

            Tony,
            I have to disagree with you -at least in part on stimulus money. I know for a fact that money that goes to transportation work from the FHWA to the various state DOT’s for stimulus projects was put out for open bid.

            The contractors who won these projects had to be the low responsible bidder and had to be approved by the state DOT that put the project out for bid. I can think of at least 3/4 of a billion dollars worth of infrastructure work that employed hundreds of people since 2007 that was a result of the stimulus package here in Florida alone.

            While I am sure there was much waste and probably even fraud at the federal level pertaining to the stimulus package, I know for a fact of the infrastructure projects in the south east that were handled above board.

          • tony newbill

            BOB666 you need a better than 2 % GDP to pay for all that Infrastructure and we don’t have that because Obamas Environmentalist Supporters won’t let him put the tax code together that ENABLES the Small Businesses and Manufacturing to bring about the kind of recovery we need to generate these revenues to do what you want . He Talks about it then it fades away , oh yeah we have a Little bit here and there with robotics as the main labor thats come back to the USA but on the level we need to see to bring a Level of Pay scale that would work would require a Tax code that would make it cost competitive in the USA with the foreign parts producers , and the Environmentalists will not have it !!!!!!!!.

          • Bob666

            Tony,
            Take a deep breath and read my comment. I was not trying to justify Stimulus spending, only letting you know that were I have seen it spent, it was done so on the up and up.

            Yes I know that we need greater than 2% growth in GDP in our economy. But, that being said, I personally believe that we would have seen the abyss had some form of stimulus not happened back in 2008-2010.

            While the current levels of growth in the economy are not where they need to be, it is far better that it was two years ago. Say what you will, it would not have been any different if McCain and that pin head been elected.

          • tony newbill

            BOB666 anyone could have done what Obama did with stimulus the problem is they never get to the root of the problem , and thats trade because it serves a dual purpose , on the RINO Plutocrat side is favors the Multi Nationalists product dumping and also allows for a way for foreign policy to enter into the fray of buying the Bureaucracies and agencies into the foreign circles through the diplomatic system , so we the people are just left in the cold and in DEBT as far as how policy effects us .

          • Bob666

            Tony,
            I have had limited exchanges with you and I suspect for this reason. Having a dialog with you is difficult because go off in ten different directions and maybe one of them is relevant to the exchange.

            You seem to be pissed that jobs get exported to cheaper labor markets, but I would bet that you shop at Walmart and purchase products made by that cheap labor? One of the first lessons that I learned in my first macro economics course (many that followed) is that you don’t get GM wages and Walmart prices.

            You seem to want your cake (Mfg. Wages) and to eat it to (cheap Walmart prices) and that simply does not work. While I do believe in small government, there are many policies that only the government can take on. There have to be some regulations on banks and commerce or the free market runs amok.

            Where we have a problem is; lobbyist have help form laws that give multinationals and domestic corporations incentives through tax breaks to do what is in their best interest and not what is in the best interest of the average worker/citizen and we are left holding the bag,

            If you want to make changes-take the money out of politics and the GOP has been against that for a reason.

          • macgyver1948

            Michelle Bachman  is the typical hypocritical Tea politician and not a lot of what she says and does should be a surprise. How she got as far as she did should be the only surprise. Wasn’t she one of the idiots who said “God told me to run”? Why didn’t she win if she was telling the truth? Maybe God wanted us to see the extremes and know who not to elect. LOL

          • tony newbill

            When Bachmann turned out to have a dual citizenship in Switzerland that disqualified her as able to run for president but went ahead after trying to get it cancelled I lost all respect for that Hypocrite !!!!!!!!

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… Hubby was Swiss, wasn’t he? Anyway Michelle Bachman didn’t want to make up her mind until she had to to run. There are many reasons she is a hypocrite but I couldn’t like here for the so many dumb things she said…

          • Jeff
          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Wow, this is really funny. Thanks…

          • Jeff

            Tony:

            You seem to have a problem with environmental protection. Do you work for Big Oil? Do you want to return to the days of rivers catching fire? In fifty years, your grandchildren aren’t going to give a hoot what the budget deficit was in 2013. What they will care about is what did Grampa Tony do about climate change and why didn’t he do more?

          • tony newbill

            Jeff the Pendulum always swings to far the other way when trying to correct the issue huh .

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff and Tony… The rising pollution levels and the Climate Change effects might be known as the Koch Effects when our grand children are wondering why we did not do more to prevent their air-filtering mask wearing and boiling water before any and all use but it is easier and less costly to the oil people and the big corporations in general to want anything done now. ‘Let’s do away with all regulations that affect the bottom lines and that is what we bought our politicians for – to work on that for us’. :-)

          • Jeff

            Your kind of “balance” would mean no environmental policy at all. It would be theoretical environmental policy, effective until someone makes a short-term economic argument. You want to set up a coal burning plant Yosemite? And you’ll employ people? Why certainly, no one needs to breathe here. After all, if you’ve seen one tree, you’ve seen them all.

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… My concern is with people being able to afford health care, decent health care… The businesses are trying to cut expenses and at times they do so with out regard for peoples needs or lives in many cases. I would like to see a meeting of the needs for both worked out without loss of decent care. Can that be done? We have to try.

          • tony newbill

            The need to move cost structure back ” IN – LINE ” with what Premium payments are is the reality of this , not cut treatments as a way to balance the cost of treatments and leave the cost at current levels !! Obamacare does not attribute the needed cost cuts in assembly with whats being paid into the system by the Insurees

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… There is much work needed to help ObamaCare to be what it should be, Like get rid of the GOPsd mandate in it and some of the other negative parts. But basically it has a lot of good stuff in it like how it changes the Insurance companies definition of their “business as usual” as it was against us for their benefit until OCare. Other things in it are good too but as I said there is work to be done on it and we needed something. Remember the GOPs version in the early 1990s failed because it was very bad for us, the non affluent.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

        Jeremy: With all due respect awkingsley. If you think Bush and Romney were socialists than you don’t know what socialism is.

        Were? Past tense…and no, Bush and Romney are not Socialists. And neither is Obama…the term you are looking for is “Fascists”. Remember, both parties voted for a ‘bailout’ that gave Paulson everything he asked for, and MORE…

        Remember, both parties voted for the invasion of Iraq…yes i know, not all voted, and those who did were bamboozled. But the fact of matter is, we invaded. And not just Iraq, which the left is always hyper-focusing on…but afterwards, and on Obama’s watch; Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya…and soon; Syria, Iran, ect…and why? Supposedly for the purpose to install Democracy…?

        Not convinced that the US is under Fascist control? Consider then the definition of Fascism…

        Fascism (pron:) is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism. Fascists seek to unify their nation through a totalitarian state that seeks the mass mobilization of the national community, relying on a vanguard party to initiate a revolution to organize the nation on fascist principles.

        Fascism views political violence, war and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation, spirit and vitality. It asserts that claimed superior nations and races that need living space should displace claimed weak and inferior nations and races.

        Fascism borrowed theories and terminology from Marxist socialism but applied them to what it saw as the more significant conflict between nations and races rather than class conflict, and focuses on ending the divisions between classes within the nation and securing national solidarity.

        It advocates a mixed economy; the principal economic goal of fascism is to achieve (autarky) to secure national self-sufficiency and independence, through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.

        It promotes regulated private enterprise and private property contingent whenever beneficial to the nation and state enterprise and state property where private enterprise and private property is unable to meet the nation’s needs. Fascism promotes such economics as part of what is sometimes called a Third Position between capitalism and Marxist socialism.

        Fascism was founded during World War I by Italian national syndicalists, who combined elements of left-wing politics with more typically right-wing positions, in opposition to mainstream socialism, communism, democracy and, in some cases, traditional right-wing conservatism.

        Although fascism is usually placed on the far right on the traditional left-right spectrum, fascists themselves and some commentators have argued that the description is inadequate. Following the Second World War, few parties openly describe themselves as fascist and the term is more usually used pejoratively by political opponents. The term neo-fascist or post-fascist is sometimes applied more formally to describe parties of the far right with ideological similarities to, or roots in, 20th century fascist movements respectively.

        You can read the rest here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Definitions

        • macgyver1948

          WTS/JAYS  … Just a quick point to address something I think you forgot. Yes, both sides did in fact vote for what is the immoral invasion of Iraq but that is because those in Congress who said yes to it did so because they hoped their president wouldn’t out right lie to get them to vote yes. Several Democrats later who voted yes said they would have voted other wise if they knew the truth. It is funny that when those Dems said they would have voted differently there were some GOP in Congress who called them “wishy-washy” for not being able to stand by their vote. For me I would rater vote for a guy who speaks his conscience then the ones who put them down for that. I can better be able to trust those with ethics and a good moral character for standing up the truth even at the risk of being called “wishy-washy”.

          By the way, did you really say we went into Afghanistan on Obama’s watch? And I do not think Obama went into those other countries, “Egypt, Libya…and soon; Syria, Iran, ect” to force Democracy. That would contradict the meaning of Democracy if it were forced on them and not left up to them to decide for themselves and I do not think Obama would do it for that reason but your side says so you should believe what they want you to believe. Now that is a slant on Fascism…

          And give up on trying to use the definition of Fascism to say we are there, “under Fascist control “. You are adhering too much to what you are told by your side to spread their hate for Obama. Not working for the majority of voters since the majority of those who voted voted for Obama AGAIN. Nice try though. Your definition of Fascism sounds pretty good and Hitler and Mussolini would appreciate you for for spreading their word. It doesn’t apply here, thank God, but you tried and that is what counts. Keep spreading the word for your side.

          • tony newbill

            The Iraqi war and occupation in the middle east and for all we know the 911 attack being allowed to happen which there is enough evidence like the lead up to peal harbor in which there was enough Intel to warn and be on alert that something was going to happen is because the Federal Reserve is and still is directing the policies that are to try and keep the Dollar they control as the worlds trade currency , and if the global resources ever become controlled by opposition that wants to change the dollars rule over the global markets then thats when the roof on the current economic system in the USA falls in .
            This is why I say we need to Isolate and return the monetary system back to the ruling hands of the people and end this global economic system in its current form and function because its going to leave the USA out of control of their own Resources as the global market shifts to a New Currency and that Leverage on USA resources binds them out of control of the USA people because of the debt thats going to default , and this debt is not by the will of the people , its the Federal Reserve and the gangsters that have allowed them to rein over the will of the people in the attempt to dominate the worlds resources for a globalist set of idealism’s , and thats just plain wrong for a sovereign society that should be self reliant with its own resources FIRST and then if anything is left set up trade for those extra resources in a finished and balanced manner !!!!!!

          • Bob666

            Yo Tony,
            One Question; do you really believe that we landed on the moon?

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… You bring up some interesting points with this history “The Iraqi war and occupation in the middle east and for all we know the 911 attack being allowed to happen which there is enough evidence like the lead up to peal harbor in which there was enough Intel to warn and be on alert that something was going to happen…”.

            I have mixed feelings when it comes to Roosevelt knowing about Pearl Harbor in advance, if he really did. On the bad side because so many died in that attack they should have been warned. On the other hand intellectually I can understand the suggested reasons for not warning them. We so much needed to get into WW2 long before we did to help eliminate the evil that is Hitler. But for US corporate business reasons ( a good number of our industrialists were doing big business with Hitler and they didn’t want that to stop) many of our Congress people voted to keep us out. Things haven’t changed mush since them but for maybe the degree. It was said that Hitler was maybe 6 months away from invading our soils when Pearl happened.

            When it comes to 911 that is another story if the little bush knew we should have been told. Certainly the same reasons Roosevelt had do not apply. We did not need to be invading Iraq and there were the lies that got us there. MAN IF LITTLE BUSH KNEW HE SHOULD BE ON HIS WAY TO HELL AFTER HE SPENDS TIME IN FEDERAL PRISON. Sorry for the caps, I get carried away with that when I hear it.

            Now to your point. Your suggestion of “This is why I say we need to Isolate and return the monetary system back to the ruling hands of the people and end this global economic system in its current form and function because its going to leave the USA out of control of their own Resources as the global market shifts” is a viable one to consider and it is shared by many. I see this monetary system as a possible way to lead us to a one world government and that can be a scary thought itself. IF a one world government did not eliminate our Constitution in part or full for us I might concede to the potential inevitability of it but the risk is too great for now not knowing what it will entail.

            I am not sure I would call the Fed gangsters exactly but there is some thought to that. I worked for the Federal Reserve Bank Of NY as a programmer as my first real job after college and there are some things I didn’t quite understand. Nothing I could do about it and many of us just had to go along to keep our jobs and keep quiet about it all. We need changes in the Fed system but we really do need a federal reserve bank, a banks regulating body if you will, to control how banks do their things for our protection. I just want right changes, ones that work for us.

          • tony newbill

            Macgyver1948 , Internationalizing the US Peoples Money and Monetary system IS NOT THE ANSWER regarding Regulatory systems but it looks like we are going there take a look at this , Basel 3 is forcing the Federal Reserve to Monetize all Mortgage activity away from Local banking interests . This will consolidate and further accelerate the National debt and lead to increased devaluation of the dollar and bring on a currency war , the exact opposite of the agreement between the G-20 .

            http://www.americanbanker.com/bankthink/basel-iii-will-force-small-banks-out-of-mortgages-1057614-1.html
            This is like the say one thing and do another and it will isolate us from our own sovereign self reliant regulatory system and our ability to access global supply from the global markets unless we bow to this demand !!!! and without a A-Z industrial capacity here in the USA any more we will fail economically and domestic supply will hyper inflate over night making the Wiemar event look like a managed one .

      • Jeremy Leochner

        WTS/JAYS

        1: Got me on the tense. I should have said they are not socialists.

        2: As for Obama he is not a fascist either. Voting for a bailout does not equal fascism.

        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism:

        1
        often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
        2
        : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

        3: I opposed the Iraqi War then and now. A foolish mistake does not equal fascism either. Cynical exploitation for the sake of votes and out of greed yes. A jaded world view in which the world is divided into good guys and bad guys yes. But not fascism.

        4: I will grant we have an over inflated sense of nationalism. But I don’t think it falls under your category of fascism.

        5: ” Fascism views political violence, war and imperialism as a means to achieve national rejuvenation, spirit and vitality”. I will grant you the last two. But there has not been political violence which is a necessary requirement for fascism. Fascists don’t have to fight that hard to win elections. As a matter of fact rarely are there elections at all.

        6: Just because Fascism promotes extreme regulation and a third position between capitalism and communism does not mean we have it here. We have regulation. Fascism is about repression.

        7: It is my firm belief that extremism on either end of the political spectrum is equally bad. I believe that fascism and communism are equally wrong. I believe that extreme right wing philosophy leads to fascism and extreme left wing philosophy leads to communism. One is focused entirely on the individual but leads to a disregarding of the individual for the sake of power. The other focuses on equality but leads to disregarding the individual for the sake of power. Both ideologies are in the extreme and are equally wrong.

        8: Our system is not fascist Jay. The reason I know is we are still debating whether or not it is. Those living under fascism don’t debate. They either tow the line or they are killed. That does not characterize us. I believe Jay that there are legitimate points to be made in fearing an imperial presidency and of things that stink of fascism. I speak of things like the Iraqi War, The Patriot Act and the NDAA. But I feel that taking the leap from the danger these things pose to our republic to declaring that we no longer live under a republic is not the way to deal with these problems. All it does is get us bogged down in debating whether or not we are living under tyranny instead of safe guarding our republic from the temptations of tyranny.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

        macgyver1948 says: You are adhering too much to what you are told by your side to spread their hate for Obama.

        Perhaps i should approach this a different way, Mr. Macgyer. First of all, i have no affiliation with either party, as i firmly believe, and have stated on numerous occasions, that both parties are essentially the same on foreign policy, and serve the same masters, and therefore, interventionism continues, as per the facts. So contrary to your above accusation, which one could perceive as “psychological-projection”, i do not adhere to what i’m supposedly being told, as you stated, although you were not specific as to which side you meant, “by my side”, but i am free to analyze, unfettered by either party’s self-serving propaganda, to arrive to my own conclusions…sadly, you appear to be not as fortunate. I pray that some day that may all change for you…

        Why do i say/believe that Obama serves the same master’s as Bush, you may ask? Well, one obvious fact, right off the top, is the fact that we are still embroiled in the middle-east…btw, the year is 2013, not 2009…

        Another glaring fact that Obama serves the same master’s(the defense-industry)&(Oil/Energy-industry)as was the case with the Bush’s, is the fact that Obama’s Administration is filled with a considerable number of people who have close ties/relationship with the said industries.

        For example:

        While on one his Hawaii vacations, Obama tapped Jerome Powell to serve on the Federal Reserve Board of Governors. Powel served as the undersecretary for finance under the president George H. W. Bush and was a partner of The Carlyle Group. The Carlyle Group is a massive private equity firm and one of the “LARGEST DEFENSE CONTRACTORS” in the world. They’re made up of some of the most influential policymakers over the last five administrations including (both Bush presidents), former Secretary of State James Baker III, former Secretary of Defense Frank Carlucci, former Clinton Chief of Staff Mack McLarty, and former SEC Chairman Arthur Levitt to name a few.

        Other notable investors in The Carlyle Group include the bin Laden family and the Saudi Royal Family.

        Who is Obama’s secretary of the army? Why…non other than John M. McHugh, a former Republican congressman from New York. First elected in 1992, Rep. John McHugh (R-N.Y.) was the ranking Republican member of the House Armed Services
        Committee, and over the years, political action committees and individual employees within the defense industry contributed more than $220,000 during his campaign. This sum makes defense the No. 4 largest sector to support McHugh, coming in behind the health sector (which has contributed $231,000 since the 1992 election cycle), the business sector ($389,000) and the labor sector ($740,000).

        Who is Obama’s secretary of defence? Why…non other than the former Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel…

        Multiple foreign corporations that have bypassed or attempted to bypass United States and European Union sanctions against Iran are funding the Atlantic Council, a Washington-based think tank chaired by defense secretary nominee Chuck Hagel.

        One council sponsor, Italian oil company Eni, has vehemently defended its trade with Iran, saying it was “proud” of its cooperation with the regime.

        “Given the existence of foreign pressures, implementation of most projects in Iran is challenging and complicated,” Eni’s Executive Vice President Guido Michelotti told reporters during a 2011 visit to Iran. “Yet, we have always been interested in cooperation with the Iranian side since we feel proud of cooperation with Iran.”
        Eni recently obtained a limited sanctions exemption to recover compensation from Iran for prior work.

        Another Atlantic Council sponsor, Deutsche Bank, is currently under U.S. investigation for sanctions violations. Hagel sits on Deutsche Bank’s board.

        Over 10 percent of the Atlantic Council’s corporate sponsors are either Turkish energy companies or companies with a large stake in Turkey’s energy sector, which is closely linked with Iran.

        “Turkey is allowing Iran to access means to use the revenues from oil for whatever purposes Iran seeks,” said Emanuele Ottolenghi, a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. “The Turks so far have not been willing to do the things you’d expect them to do to squeeze Iran.”

        Turkish energy companies that fund the Atlantic Council include Calik Enerji, which is owned by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Erdogan’s son-in-law. Azerbaijan’s state-owned oil company SOCAR has also partnered with the Atlantic Council, and has representative offices in both Turkey and Iran.

        Both Hagel and the Atlantic Council have been critical of Iran sanctions in the past. The defense secretary nominee repeatedly voted against sanctions legislation while in the Senate, and the Atlantic Council has published reports questioning the effectiveness of sanctions.

        Hagel said he does support sanctions, as long as they are multilateral at his recent Senate hearing.

        A congressional aide who has worked on Iran sanctions issues said the corporate links raise questions about whether Hagel was aware these companies were attempting to bypass sanctions. But an official working on the Hagel nomination defended his chairmanship of the Atlantic Council, noting that (Condoleezza Rice, Madeleine Albright and James A. Baker…do the names sound familiar, Mr. Macgyver?) have served as “honorary directors” of the think tank.
        http://freebeacon.com/the-atlantic-councils-sanctions-busting-backers/

        Who was the (former) Deputy Secretary of Defense? Why…non other than William Lynn, who come directly from the lucrative world of big time lobbying for the world’s largest missile manufacturer, Maryland-based Raytheon Co. Incidentally, Raytheon happens to be one of the Pentagon’s biggest missile suppliers thanks greatly to Lynn’s efforts.

        Lynn was Raytheon’s senior vice president for government operations and strategy which means he was dedicated to lobbying the same agency he used to lead. Lynn held the position for six years, at Raytheon, and will receive a Raytheon monthly pension of $4,300.

        In his position as Secretary of Defense, Lynn was Pentagon’s top operations manager which means he had final approval authority on essentially all defense contract, budget and program decisions. Obama’s White House general counsel (Gregory Craig of Bill Clinton fame) said in regards to of lynn’s approval “exigent circumstances relating to national security” led the administration to give Lynn (AN ETHICS WAIVER). A Republican senator who strongly opposed Lynn’s nomination and voted against confirming him said the Office of Governmental Ethics will have to set up a full-time department just to handle Lynn’s conflicts-of-interest waivers involving Raytheon.

        And that’s just a small sample, Mr. Macgyver, that should give even the dullest amongst observers, pause…btw, if you need more to convince you…? that Obama is the new “salesman/front-man…on contract” for the “lucrative” and multi-billion dollar, “Defense-Industry”, you let me know…as i’ll be more than happy to share it with you!

        This is not the first time Barack Obama has placed Bush Sr.’s minions into influential positions. In August 2010, Daniel F. Akerson, a managing director of the Carlyle Group, in what was called a “surprise move” was named the CEO of General Motors (GM), otherwise known as Government Motors.

        • Jeff

          There is much truth in what you say. The Democrats and Republicans often serve the same masters – defense contractors and big business in general. But you have to admit the Democrats are, for the most part, more willing than the Republicans to buck their masters and side with the poor and middle class. When it comes to dividing up the pie, the Democrats are only slightly more egalitarian than the Republicans, making the “socialist” cry a joke. The big banks take 11 slices of the pie, then tell the “little” people how the [unions, Blacks, liberals, younameit] are taking the remaining piece that’s rightfully theirs.

          But to infer from that that there’s no difference between Democrats and Republicans is a bridge too far. The election in 2000 didn’t make a difference. W wasn’t a disaster to an extent unimaginable under Gore? The Democrats and Republicans are like two sons of Mitt Romney with Randall telling Dad how Dexter is profligate with the family fortune because he tips 20% instead of the family 10% rule.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… I agree with much of what WTS/JAYS says about the similarities between the two major parties too but I also see the differences. I could go into a long rant on the differences I see but I will just touch on one of the main ones, at least on the surface, and I say this often.

            For the most part it appears the GOP, especially since TP ownership of so many of them, is in business solely for the benefit and protection of [the elite, the corporations and the very wealthy], pretty exclusively with very little regard for the non affluent below the surface, behind their words.

            The Dems are appearing to work for the rest of us and hopes the very wealthy and the corporations can see the need especially with the problems of the last 10 years or so with the recessions. Apparently, if we have been paying attention, the TPGOP appears to not care for anything but to only destroy Obama and do what is best for the Corporations.

        • macgyver1948

          WTS/JAYS … For me “your side” doesn’t need to be of a specific affiliation to any one party. There just seems to be an adherence to what is said against Obama that is typically familiar and, in many cases, programmed. There is so much coming out of the Right, whatever Right party, which makes up a lot of “proof” or edits it to express what simply feels like hate. There has always been a so-called normal “look what we say is wrong with the in-party, or the opposition party, but since Tea, who seems to have sprung up primarily to oust Obama at all costs, as soon as the black man announced he would enter the race along with Hilary.

          There is so much emphasis generated from their hate for him for whatever reason before they really knew him and the sad part is so many people just believe them without really know what is driving the source of Tea. I say all the time we should really know who the leaders of a group we choose to join or at least their backgrounds. A great deal of the creation of Tea is The Koch Klan. They come from a family who is steeped in, well lets just say anti Civil Rights to be kind for now, and for fighting for what is best for the big corporations without a real regard for those who aren’t wealthy or a corporation.

          Tea comes from the John Birch Society and the Koch Brothers dad, Fred, is one of its founders and financiers who is known for his feelings about minorities and all he wants for his kind, the very wealthy. They were as Senator McCarthy and his cross dressing buddy in the FBI for calling everyone who does not see things totally their ways as a Commie as they did with President Eisenhower. Again, we should know who we accept truth from.

          If I see you incorrectly I am sorry, I just see a lot of the same in some of your comments as I do in the Tea affected. We both can see things wrong with those on both sides of the aisle and that in its self is healthy. We can see more of what we assign as wrong and that can determine how we speak of what we see as wrong. I see some things Obama does as not so kosher and I say so when I do. I speak more against the Right because I see a lot more that is not in our favor than I see from Obama and the Dems. You speak to what you see is wrong. It’s just that I see those familiar put downs that are so common form those who just hate him and they just puppet was they are told without checking it out.

          Obama may not serve the same individuals as little bush but I do know he owes a lot to those who financed him in a big way. That is a big part of what I see wrong with politics in general, the big money, and now with secrecy in those donations, thanks to Citizens United and the SCOTUS, which I feel strongly is a betrayal toward us, we will got it so much worse than ever before. Politicians will owe big time for the investments the big money people make and if they want continued support they will have to give up the bis dividends in return. Little bush did it with the big oil guys and whose money did he use to pay them back for their support? The Founders warned us about big money influencing political loyalty and service but we haven’t learned a thing since their time. Again, secrecy will make it a lot worse.

          I understand your concerns, and connections you place for Obama’s same people controls of him as bush in his appointing a G H bush to serve on the Federal Reserve board. This seems to be a normal thing for politicians to “Tap” as you say those this way to fill spots with other party people or even same party people we might not like. If Romney some how won it was said he would have filled a lot of his cabinet with the same people who was in little bush’s cabinet. Man that would suck considering how much so many of them screwed things up for us and we are still paying for their programs. Many of these appointments are for pay back. Isn’t that nice but it is politics at our expense?

          I think Obama is trying to being bi-partisanship to new levels. I like this in theory but if the ones that are chosen, regardless of party, screwed us before I have problems.

          You have a paragraph which reads “One council sponsor, Italian oil company Eni, has vehemently defended its trade with Iran, saying it was “proud” of its cooperation with the regime”. Remember “ I have not has sex…(pause)… with this women, Monica…”? So many of these guys will not admit to a wrong doing until they can no longer defend that wrong doing. I have seen this in corporate execs and in politics alike. Of course this guy Eni will be proud of his actions publicly, he has to justify what he does so he can continued to be accepted and respected, well, they hope as Clinton did until…

          By the way, I do not feel anyone can defend Iran to me. They are still Persia and they are still as their buddies the Hitler Nazis were. I very well remember the US Embassy take over during Carter’s term and I remember the words of their president “we do not have a homosexual problem in Iran”… Sure they do not, they execute all gays when they find them just for being gay. As a straight Jewish American man I would not have to be gay in Iran for them to execute me. I guess I wont be going there on vacation any time soon or accidentally cross over their border. LOL.

          You are packing a lot of recent history and current events into your comment. Turkey is doing what is best for their business as a country but I am concerned about their connections with Iran when it comes to Turkish/Israeli relations which is tenuous at best especially since Israelis killed Turkish seaman a few years ago for “violating an embargo” during a search. Things are supposedly getting better between Israel and Turkey since Obama’s trip to Israel a few days ago but who knows what is really going on with that.

          Hagel may not support sanctions but as long as they have a nuclear weapons program (it is too scary not to think so considering it is Iran we are talking about) I believe sanctions are very necessary and hopefully those sanctions will do as they are there for. l too believe they are needed but then again we are talking about the insanity of Iran. If Iran goes off its rocker, do they have a sane rocker?, and launches missiles against Israel we could all be in for it. I see Obama sending in the troops soon after a major air strike.

          You have giving me a lot to read and much of it I have already read before in one way or another but it never hurts to revisit, thanks. I see Obama for what he is as a politician in how he is presenting himself. I also see him as better for us, the non affluent, than any the Right has thrown at us for quite a while. Sad that it comes down to “the lesser of the evils” but that is what we are left with. I see a lot of false truths about him coming from the Right and I wonder about what might be true.

          For now, and until it is proven otherwise, to me he was born in Hawaii and is a Christan as well as loves America. This Barry Soetoro is a name that was pushed on his as a child when his mom remarried and he was adopted just like the move to Kenya was when he moved there, and he returned to the country he loves when he was old enough to make that decision. But the Barry Soetoro name is just another thing those who hate him will use to destroy him.

          If you remember, the Tea party first said they had to defeat Obama no matter what in his first run. Then in Obama’s second run it became clearer they were going to do whatever it takes to make him a one term president even at the expense of the country. Why is it so easy to believe he is the evil those who hate him say he is? Hate does blind people and it shows that so much in a whole lot of their “evidence”.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAYS

        Jeff says: But you have to admit the Democrats are, for the most part, more willing than the Republicans to buck their masters and side with the poor and middle class.

        Perhaps for the constituency, Jeff. Such as you and many others on this board…and i truly believe your claim to side with the poor and middle-class to be genuine. As for the party representatives in Washington, i have a hard time believing such…in light of the evidence. No disrespect intended…

        • macgyver1948

          WTS/JAYS … If I may interject. You state your opinion with “As for the party representatives in Washington, i have a hard time believing such…in light of the evidence”. You are so very entitled to your opinion just as much as we are… I would take no offense if you said that to me. I think that is another small difference between many Libs and some on the Right.

  • Tommy cunningham

    Today 3/23 is the 238th Anniversary of Patrick Henry’s speech , the last paragraph is as follows and we need elected officials to hold true to it……. Is peace so sweet and life so dear as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty god! For I know not what course others may take but as for myself, give me liberty or give me death!

    • Tommy cunningham

      People- the whole problem with the federal goverment having a retirement program “SS” or a healthcare program “OHCA” is that the goverment even has these programs, yes some people need help, however who are to help these people and according to our founders and the Constitution, Anybody but the federal goverment! There should be one set of laws applied equally regardless if poor, rich, corporation or a union! No special treatment for helping get someone elected or as I say , no bribes by violating the constitution to get votes. Should be one tax rate for ALL, applied equally , one set of laws applied equally ! How do we achieve this, by obeying Constitution , no special treatment for any group or citizen regardless if poor, rich, a union or corporation.

    • Michelle Kienlen

      Patrick Henry was a true american patriot.If our Founding Fathers could see what has become of every thing that they treasured and held dear they would turn in their graves.The republicans and democrats should be ashamed at what they have done to the greatest gift to civilization.America used to be the hope and the shining beacon of freedom to the world,Mans last and best hope.If all that is good and decent is destroyed as these progressives are trying their level best to accomplish.The progressives will have accomplished the destruction of freedoms light.Without America the world will be plunged into the darkness of tyranny and slavery.Patrick Henry had it right,if i had to choose between Liberty or life as a slave I would rather die than to live as a slave,Liberty is a blessing from God,When America kicked God out of our public life,They kicked out our liberty and freedom too.

      • Charlie

        How did you become a “Christian” according to Scripture???

  • FreedomFighter

    Repub leaders take note:

    Signs on semi trailers criticize Obama, socialism
    http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/kent_county/farmer-and-gaines-township-at-odds-over-m6-signs

    Laus Deo
    Semper FI

    • Vicki

      I think the farmer should put up some more signs right close to the road and make them the size of the limits on the ordinance. Maybe make a series of signs that all add up to the point :)

    • tony newbill

      Freedom Fighter what do you think about this ?????

      Leaked Document: Military Internment Camps in U.S to be Used for Political Dissidents

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FfkZ1yri26s

      ht tp://info.publicintelligence.net/USArmy-InternmentResettlement.pdf

      ht tp://www.examiner.com/article/army-officer-obama-s-dhs-intends-to-kill-you-and-me?cid=db_articles

      ht tp://www.examiner.com/article/is-the-us-army-really-building-internment-camps-here

      ht tp://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-career-and-job-categories/legal-and-law-enforcement/internment-resettlement-specialist.html

      • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

        I don’t know what he thinks about it ~ but find this same information for two separate sources or a least a smoking gun with “.org ” on the end of the address. ~ something that is not rumor or a bias accounting and then you might just have something.

      • Charlie

        For most , good news,,,believe it or not there are still some good guys and gals inside U S Governmental Agencies,,, they tell info or give clues many times on certain “Crimes”,,,but,,,one has to have some knowledge of the technology involved in the crime to decipher what the gubmint agents are saying… For example ,,,the FAA told Me what caused the crash of JFK jr airplane,, NO, the kid was a good pilot, so he DID NOT cause the crash,,,not to mention the WX was better than basic VFR… NO, the FAA did not tell Me directly ,,,they told anybody that was checking .,.the one clue that solved the mystery of the crash… Why do you think the FBI sealed the records on that case?… Then all a investigator needed to do was ask ,”who would benefit from his death”???,,,anyone with knowledge of the politics JFK jr was in , could answer that question and anyone with knowledge of that airplanes Mfg’ specs ,,could,,, AFTER,, the FAA gave the one clue solve the “Riddle” of that crash… How many out there know what that one clue was???

    • tony newbill

      Freedom Fighter the Collapse and hyper inflation of the dollar seems to be imminent as this report suggests , and would be why the DHS is gearing up for this conflict ….

      America’s Cyprus Crisis: All U.S. Banks To Go FULL BLOWN BIOMETRIC WITHIN 3 WEEKS??????
      http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/03/americas-cyprus-crisis-all-u-s-banks-to-go-fullblown-biometric-within-3-weeks-2602080.html?currentSplittedPage=0

    • richard brooks

      that is funny. the farm bloc is a huge recipient of socialism. i doubt if the idiot who put up the sign has any idea what the word socialism means.

  • jopa

    Well I guess the prime GOP candidates are finished.Ann Coulter said Rubio and Paul are too short for the job and Paul wanting amnesty for the immigrants and legalizing pot have finished him off.She was 100% right about Romney before she flipped and became 100% wrong.So her first message about Christie and Romney was right and that may hold true on Rand Paul losing out also.

    • Jeff

      It is true. We haven’t had a short, fat, or bald President in the TV age. There was Ike, but he was a unique figure, and TV was barely a factor then. Carter is probably the shortest President we’ve had recently, and he beat Ford because Ford said something really dumb in their debate. Dukakis may have lost because of the tank ad, but it didn’t help his cause when he and Poppy Bush shook hands and he was a head shorter. The first time I really thought Clinton could win was when he stood eye-to-eye with Bush at the beginning of their first debate. That, and the fact he immediately hit back when attacked by the Republican Slime Machine. When Bush said “My dog Millie knows more about foreign affairs than those two bozos,:” Clinton hit back the same day: “Bozo makes people laugh, and Bush makes ‘em cry.” It wasn’t the brilliance of the attack but the good humor he showed and the fact he showed he was alive and engaged. Kerry and Dukakis would have waited weeks to say anything, then just shrugged it off as nonsense.

      But looks definitely matter. Can you imagine Chris Christy on stage with Obama? Now, Christy against Hillary at age 69? Interesting.

      • Bob666

        Yo Jeff/Mac,
        Christy against Hillary at age 69?

        that would be an exciting contest!

        • macgyver1948

          Hilary will beat him with stamina. LOL…

          • tony newbill

            The News that Hillary could run was to much for this patriot …….

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iKqGXeX9LhQ#!

          • Jeff

            So what did you do?

          • macgyver1948

            Tony… I see you are using this patriot card to show your disdain for Hilary, that is your right. Ok, this patriot, me, was concerned that a hurtful greedy apathetic disconnected-to-us owned puppet, a guy who has little respect for other people’s religions if their religion is not approved by his, guy such as Romney was running or the other guy, you know the little bush guy but even more of a war monger, who ran against Obama the first time. Now be both expressed our feelings of disdain as patriots.

  • Ron r

    It is obvious what the republican party is doing now is not working. Besides a win is a win no matter how narrow.it was a majority win and it was proff that the country was just as concerned with extreamism as it was the economy. Keep up the good work!!!!

    • robbiefine@hotmail.com

      At least the GOP is admitting that it is out of step with the country. As Bobby Jimbal has said the GOP is the “stupid party”. That’s a quote. But will the future of the GOP be any different than the recent past? Not if we look at there recent convention. Poor old Mitt was there noting 6 or 7 Republicans who could possibly lead the GOP out of the wilderness and yet none of them were invited to speak. However the clown Sarah Palin WAS invited and the side show carnival barker Donald Trump got his 15 minutes to spout the usual inanities for which he is well known. All of this points to Joe Biden or Hilary as the next President.

  • http://twitter.com/mudguy1943 Martin (@mudguy1943)

    Reince Priebus is one of the first changes that RNC need to make. He must go. A losing football will not hire a losing coach to coach the team. Another loser that must go is Carl Rove. As long as those two are giving their losing advice the GOP will continue to lose.

  • dan

    GOP may as well change their mascot to a mastodon

    • old hillbilly

      elephantitis (abnormal swelling) & soon will be mastagone if they keep spitting on morality & core values

      need open season on rhinoceroces (sp) & lots more tea for the party

    • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Darwan Winkler

      Dan says “GOP may as well change their mascot to a mastodon”

      LOL! cute ~~ Well ~ judging from the response to this 97 page report, it’s clearly a possibility that they should. ~ Much like the elephant, ~ there is a “tail attached at both ends” so the inference of any odd animal of nature would not be lost with such a change.

      Have you noticed this strong desire to kill the messenger that is indicative of the party faithful? It seems that ideological matters will always supersedes reality on all levels of thought. Like, ~ as if it might be ignored, then it does not exist.

      Like maybe, it’s Mind over Matter, ~ if you don’t mind than it don’t matter.

      But they do mind. ~ and wish to ignore that rest of us matter ~ we are here only as a “back drop” for their pleasures and supply the excuse for their many failures it would seem.

      Just how long can this selective narrow thinking possibly continue, I wonder? For it does not include us all.

      There are many things that are not addressed in the Constitution. ~ to go back 237 years to the bare bones of forming Government ~ and dismiss all this 237 years worth of work of government “To form a MORE perfect union” fails to make much sense really.

      There is a reason for everything, where it be written or not. ~ to think that you can find a reason for All matters of man inside the framework of a 237 years old document is absurd. ~ The Constitution was never intended to be a physiological endeavor but an effort to craft minimum standards of noble intentions among men.

  • robbiefine@hotmail.com

    The problem with the GOP is not that it is not reaching out to people. The problem is what it is reaching out WITH.

  • Melvin2344

    Conservatives MUST specify that they stand for SAVING ( or conserving ) Americans from the “progressive-bankruptcy” of the Liberal WASTE-MONEY-AT-ALL-COSTS Democrats! PERIOD : No More & NO LESS! They MUST KEEP their MOUTHS SHUT on things like RAPE-FERTILITY ; Wet-Backs ; Minorities ; Welfare ; etc. The ROUTE to reducing GOVERNMENT DEPENDENCY must be JOBS ; JOBS ;….. ; and JOBS!

    END OF COMMENTS & END OF DEMOCRAT DEPENDENCY SLAVERY! ///

    • macgyver1948

      Melvin2344… You seem to have a train of thought about the differences between the conservatives and the Liberals that is defined for you and not really based on what is. That is fine, you can chooses what you want to believe. Your entrainment is decided for you with your permission with how you express your shared Right version of the differences.

      You mention “The ROUTE to reducing GOVERNMENT DEPENDENCY must be JOBS ; JOBS ;….. ; and JOBS!”. Yes, we need jobs , very much we do, but as with anything else just doing something doesn’t mean the problems are going to be solved. If we do not do it correctly the problems can get worse.

      For example, if we do the jobs things as the TP GOP wants, that is whatever will benefit the corporate execs in whatever ways they want to reach and maintain their goals (higher bottom lines, lower expenses (payroll is an expense and one that is the most controllable), keeping as much money at the top as possible and, very very important, keeping the top share holders very happy thus keeping the boards happy so the execs get their very lucrative contracts renewed and improved. With these goals for the execs, the only real job creators for private sector jobs, what are their real incentives for the execs to create jobs at all let alone worthwhile and decent paying jobs? And, so many of the execs are getting so much help from their friends, the TPGOP, to reach and maintain their goals.

      So, with all that said your idea of “The ROUTE to reducing GOVERNMENT DEPENDENCY must be JOBS ; JOBS ;….. ; and JOBS!” all by itself will never work if the pay for these jobs does not include offering livable wages. Oh, just to get it in, these jobs also has to include employee representation that doesn’t not owe their jobs to the company such as Ombudsmen programs or Open Door Policies. I’m not saying unions as we believe of them but the employees must have representation that has their best interests at heart or it will go on being as it is in Right To Work states or where there is no real representation for the employees.

      So, in short, just saying we need “…JOBS ; JOBS ;….. ; and JOBS!” will not work if the jobs do not do what a job is suppose to do for the worker, support him/her fairly and decently, or if the job package, as always defined by the execs, S*U*C*K*S.

  • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Darwan Winkler

    http://youtu.be/16K6m3Ua2nw

    unflattering to be sure.

  • DavidL

    Chip,
    A growing majority of Americans don’t agree with you. The facts don’t agree with you. A very large majority of voters voted for a Democratic Congress but because of gerrymandering the Republicans retained control of it. In 2009 our debt was 10% of GDP. Under President Obama, it is now 5% of GDP. Our deficit is coming down. Federal spending is the lowest in fifty years. We are out of Iraq and coming out of Afghanistan. These two wars, because of your “core principles” killed and wounded hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians as well as thousands of our men and women in uniform. Your “core principles” scream pro-life. Ever think about or ever care about the number of pregnant Iraqi and Afghan women killed in these wars that you and your crowd lied and spent us into?

    The extremist views of your Conservative/Republican party are dead. Wake up! The autopsy report by Chairman Priebus is accurate and should be helpful. if you guys are wise, a bit of a stretch I fear, you would do well to seriously pay close attention to it. Talk about “leading from behind”, you guys continually attempt to lead from the back of a cave. Good luck with Rand Paul, Rubio, and Cruz. Paul is an idiot tilting at the windmill created by Ayn Rand, a communist and an atheist. Rubio is an opportunistic phony like Romney, but just a cheaper version. Cruz is an overbearing and obnoxious social cave dweller. That’s why we sent him to Congress.

    I agree when you write “….the right message will resonate with a majority of voters.”

    Unfortunately for you, your message of anti-change (no matter what it is unless it only comes from you), hate, fear, racism, misogyny, prejudice, homophobia, division, elitism, anti-science, and anti-immigrant, all while deluding yourself and pretending you stand for the opposite, is fully understood and rejected by a majority of the American public. So with what are you left? Old white guys who dropped out of or just barely graduated from high school. You know the type. They listen to conservative talk radio and believe Fox is the only “fair and balanced” news station.

    May I respectfully remind you that when the paradigm changes, everyone goes back to zero. The time has long passed for you and your crowd to recognize this and to change. I suppose you would call that retreating from your “core principles”. I and most adults would call it progress. If you stand still, you will fall behind. Progress is new ways. Don’t think it’s necessary? Ask the Chinese about their “century of humiliation”. Ask them about today?

    John Dean (conservative Republican) said it very well in his book “Conservatives without conscience.” I recommend it as a first step toward reformation and progress for all who are currently stuck in the wilderness without a clue.

    • Jeff

      David:

      I agree with most of what you say, but Ayn Rand a communist? I hardly think that’s an accurate description of her.

  • Just the Facts Maam

    I’ve been an Independent voting almost exclusively Republican for many years. I’ve done so in order to vote for the lesser of two evils in most cases. To tell the truth I’m rather sick of voting that way. Just once I’d like to see mostly candidates I can actually vote FOR.

    To the Republican Party: If you want to embrace liberal ideology then why not save a lot of trouble and just become Democrats and have done with it?!! As for attracting (and appeasing) the liberal vote I must ask the question; why would a Democrat vote for a cheap imitation rather than the real thing?

    As for me I have decided I will no longer settle for the lesser of two evils. If there is no candidate that stands for the Constitution and American values running for a particular office I will leave the choice blank! As long as we settle for second rate candidates we will continue to have second rate government.

    My country is not made better because of the survival of a second rate political party. It is made better by representatives that serve the people and not a party or themselves. A party that can’t get their act together well enough to defeat what is in all likelihood the lyingest and most corrupt opponents in US history is hardly an entity that will be long missed.

    I hope the GOP establishment gets their way and changes the party as it will spell its end. Then maybe we can reform with a new party that puts country ahead of power. Traditional values are what made this country excel and they are NOT dead!

    • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Darwan Winkler

      “I’ve been an Independent voting almost exclusively Republican for many years. ”

      So how does that make you an independent? ~ That I voted for Reagan should make me one as well?

      • Just the Facts Maam

        Darwin:
        You are what you say you are…
        As for voting Republican perhaps I didn’t make myself clear. As an Independent I should be able to find candidates from both sides of the aisle to vote for or to choose from. Over the years the Democrats have literally faded out of sight on my left to the point I can find absolutely no one of value to vote for there. That leaves a tier of mostly second rate choices provided by the Republican party whose only virtue is that they’re “not as bad” as their opponents.

        Unlike some here I believe in American principles and value the sacrifices of so many that made our land great. And…give me MORE Rand Pauls, more Michele Bachmanns, more Rubios, Palins and Cruzs and I’ll vote FOR them. At least they stand for something! Unfortunately there are all too few like them in either party.

        • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Darwan D Winkler

          I see. ~ Hmm? ~ well I think people lie! ~ Once they lie to themselves , lying to everyone else is the norm and not the exception.

          I can not help but believe ~ we might well like to consider ourselves as independents while clearly our voting record fails to bear that out, as does yours.

          People lie to themselves all they time. ~ When they say such things as , “It’s not about the money” ~ it’s always about the money!

          When people say such things as, “Don’t worry about the money.” ~~ That is your cue to start worrying about the money.

          When people say, “I don’t really care” ~~ They really care!

          When people say they are GOP voting independents. ~ flags , bells and whistles goes off.

          You cannot believe the words that come out of peoples mouths. ~ But you can believe in what they “Do”.

          We live in an age of lies and mislabeling ~ total disrespect for the spoken word. ~

          An honesty man is a rare thing anymore. Something to hang on a cross.

          Bearing false witness and conflicting statements rules the day.

          This has became our world. ~while It wasn’t always so. There was once a time when people said what they meant and meant what they said.

        • Jeff

          JFM:

          You can call yourself anything you like, but in reality you are a right wing Republican who supports all the crazy candidates that have put the Repugs on the Endangered Species List. Keep supporting the Bachmanns of the world. They provide employment for stand-up comics all over the country.

    • James

      The US desperately needs REAL Conservative leadership. Conservative should mean fiscal responsibility, respect for the constitution, recognizing the responsibility of government to ALL levels of society, and conserving our most important resources – our children and our planet (really – we only have one).

      Sadly, to many voters, Conservative has come to mean backing business at all costs no matter the effect on environment, ignoring science, replacing rational thought with “values”, gutting education, and leaving the poor to starve. This may not be fair, but it is a widely held perception.

      When the GOP worships lunatics like Ryan, Palin, Bachman, Santorum, Cruz, Beck, Coulter, O’Reilly, and Limbaugh, they only make themselves repugnant in the eyes of many rational thinkers. If they think that Marco Rubio is a savior, they are sadly misguided. His equivocation on evolution and the lame platitudes in his CPAC speech lost me and many others.

      There once were true conservatives, fine intellects with pragmatic ideas to solve real problems, and the understanding that our beloved Constitution is a triumph of compromise and that governing requires flexibility. These people had prodigious intellects and put the needs of the people, all the people, ahead of their lust for power. We need more like them now.

      Until the GOP stops putting up candidates that would be more appropriate in a carnival side show they will continue to be in trouble at the polls and continue to deprive the country of rational conservative thought.

      • macgyver1948

        James… You say “Sadly, to many voters, Conservative has come to mean backing business at all costs no matter the effect on environment, ignoring science, replacing rational thought with “values”, gutting education, and leaving the poor to starve. This may not be fair, but it is a widely held perception”.

        James, there are very good reasons why so many voters feel the GOP, many of whom are now owned by the TP, are in business primarily for the benefit and protection of the big corporations. Many of us voters who feel this way about the GOP feel this way because of GOP actions. So, it is not sadly felt this way, as you say, because we are just told to but because of what we see and feel from the GOP. The sadness is in how the GOP forgets about us for their goals, that doing “what is best for the guys who support us so greatly at campaign and other selective times”, you know, the huge money guys.

        You go on to say, and I very much agree, “When the GOP worships lunatics like Ryan, Palin, Bachman, Santorum, Cruz, Beck, Coulter, O’Reilly, and Limbaugh, they only make themselves repugnant in the eyes of many rational thinkers. You are so right about that.

        You are also so right when you say “The US desperately needs REAL Conservative leadership. Conservative should mean fiscal responsibility, respect for the constitution, recognizing the responsibility of government to ALL levels of society, and conserving our most important resources – our children and our planet (really – we only have one)”.

        Again you are so right about that, we need the other party balance (not just the Democratic Party), but the GOP has for so long not been of that, what you say we need. The GOP has almost always been the party of the Corporate world but so much more so since they became victim of one sided pledges and demands that are “do it our ways or else…”. The GOP, the signers of these pledges anyway (over 270 GOPers in Congress to one of these pledges alone) are compelled to “do as they are told”. Theses things makes is so tough for the GOP to be a party “Of The People” so they aren’t.

        Sorry James, we need to outlaw these pledges and get all parties, especially those with these MAFIA like pledges, back to doing the job “We The People” voted for them to do, that is, represent us and not only the big money special interest groups.

        You end with “Until the GOP stops putting up candidates that would be more appropriate in a carnival side show they will continue to be in trouble at the polls and continue to deprive the country of rational conservative thought”. We agree on several things, although not limited to just with the carnival show we saw in this last GOP presidential candidate debates, but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

        • Bob666

          Yo Mac

          “You end with “Until the GOP stops putting up candidates that would be more appropriate in a carnival side show they will continue to be in trouble at the polls and continue to deprive the country of rational conservative thought”

          You nailed it dead center!

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… It was not my quote but it is so true I used it to express my agreement. Mine was “We agree on several things, although not limited to just with the carnival show we saw in this last GOP presidential candidate debates”. And there are others of them, not in those debates as well, who were a huge joke, often not the laughing kind. WOW they are a bunch of hypocrites in so many ways.

  • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

    Priebus is the reason I no longer belong to the Republican Party, they have become RINO’s and forgot what we stood for, lower taxes, less government and real freedoms not given by the government but, by God.

    • R. Fine

      How come God hasn’t given freedom to everyone?

      • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Darwan D Winkler

        Because notions of freedom is mostly BS.

        People enslave themselves to things and ideas.

        that ~ and freedom is not something to give but to have. It is taken.

        and most people refuse freedom ~ as they want to possess.

        Most often, to be free of one thing is to be enslaved by another.

        A High minded concept by mental midgets.

        To be freedom comes in degrees ~ the wider your options the greater the freedom.

        When you are free to do anything ~ your social calendar will wane as you go rogue and people start to wonder about you. They will become resentful and suspicious of you and your motives. ~ Because you are free and they are not, ~ they carry responsibilities and you do not. They stand for something ~ while you stand of autonomy and personal freedom.

        • macgyver1948

          Darwin… I wonder if you are taking equality of Freedom, as it is offered us in the Constitution and those notions you suggest “People enslave themselves to things and ideas” as the same. We have the Constitutional right to peruse happiness which is what you say we people enslave ourselves with and that is different from the basic freedoms of speech and religion etc. If they were the same things, the pursuit of happiness and those other freedoms, perhaps there wouldn’t have been a need to list them separately in the Constitution by our Founders.

          Much of what we obtain to be happy in so many ways depends on our individual abilities to achieve them as well as our beliefs that we can, or cannot. Do we enslave ourselves to these desires can depend on how we each look at it individually and in many cases that can depend on how much society convinces us of the values of these things. But we have the right to peruse none the less.

          You say “Most often, to be free of one thing is to be enslaved by another”. Well, it can be that way if you see the methods of pursuit as an enslavement. Is ‘it’ worth that method, and it side effects (you mention what happens to ones social calender) or not? I felt you were getting philosophical so I am just thinking about what you are saying. There can be a price for anything, even the freedom to pursue.

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Darwan D Winkler

            No question about it ~to be completely “free” is to go alone. ~ Few of us wants for such freedom macgyver1948. ~ Whip me , beat me! Make me ride hot checks.

            Make me believe! Give me a “reason”!

          • macgyver1948

            Darwan… You have to decide what you want to believe. This is not a cop out, belief is a choice much of which is based on feeling and not necessarily in fact or truth. I cannot make you believe, as you ask, and if I could what would be the point? You wouldn’t be of free will if I could make you believe. Belief/faith is what religion is about and when it comes to freedom, we have it but we have to believe that too and not listen to those who want to feel superior, so often because they have a need to hide a weakness as well as maintain power/control.

      • macgyver1948

        R. Fine… Oh but God has given all of us freedom and He has done so equally for all. It is called The Gift Of Free Will which comes from God. God did not say “if you are black you have less Free Will than if you are white and Christian”. Unfortunately for us men with power have decided that some people deserve less freedom than others, mainly others who are not as “we are” or “one of us”. He also did not say, “if you have less money you have less quality, it only means wee have less buying power.

        There is a line in one of the newer Lincoln movies which goes something like this as an argument against the emancipation of slaves. Paraphrasing, because I do not remember the exact line, it goes “Man cannot give equality to those men God did not create equal”. This line is from a bigot who wants to redefine God, assume God’s roles, and take it upon himself to be superior. Some people with more power than many others, and want more power for themselves, tend to do so by claiming, trying to justify and rationalize, ‘some people are less equal’. It has been done like this since recorded history began and I bet long before that.

        I bet, for real Christians, their chosen Messiah would not agree that there should be some people with more FREEDOM for themselves then for others. Some people have more money than others but that affluence/power does not mean they deserve more FREEDOM, many greedy people with large amounts of money and power just seem to take it that way as they rationalize their deserving of it. All men are created equal, there are just some men, with great selfishness and greed, who want to take that away.

        I just want to puke when I see or hear some people want to redefine and edit the words and gifts from God.

        • Jeff

          Is it entirely coincidental how God’s opinions about political matters change with the “thinking” of our most conservative citizens?

          • R.F.

            Clearly god is a Republican. It was also neat when god spoke to Rick Perry AND Michelle Bachmann and – according to them – told them BOTH to run for President. Funny how neither of them won when both were supported by god himself!

          • Bob666

            Yo RF,
            Living proof that; the lord works in mysterious ways!

          • macgyver1948

            Bob… Yeah. The TP GOP are very much examples of the mysterious ways, :-).

          • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Darwan D Winkler

            Hmm? ~ LOL~ ahem ~~ I’m having my hotline to God installed today ! ~ It was offered in a “bundle” along with Prophecy Are’Us and up to the Minute local Weather, ~ i just could not refuse!

            Christian and the GOP have much in common. ~ I went to church with mother on Easter Sunday, ~ it was an act of love and respect for mother. It certainty was not for all the awful , off pitch singing, poorly constructed sermon or young chicks or I found some driving need for salvation!

            The congregation is aging and dying off by the month. The Pray List on Sunday morning for those found in need, almost exceeded those in attendance.

            It was one of the longest 1 1/2 hours of my life as time seemed to stand still! ~I counted the roses in the vase left of the pastor, I counted how many lamp bulbs needed changing in the overhead lighting. Wondering how did they get up to those 22 ft. ceiling fixtures without moving the pews? I counted the AC ducts, ~ wall stats and computed the tonnage required to cool the building at 35 tons.

            It was like a time warp ~ I was frozen in time. ~ This is the second church congregation mother has out lived ~ as building expenses exceeds what they can bring in.

            They can’t understand why their church is dying off ~ while they refuse to change the way they conduct worship service on any level. Zero compromise! with their understanding of the matter of “worship” . It’s just as hard for me to sit through a service today as it was when I was 4 years old. ~ Good Grief! ~ No wonder mother is getting to where she keeps repeats herself so much ~ that the way they talk at church, they repeat everything that they say, over and over again, they have turned her brain into mush!

            With the exception of some children locked in the Nursery with their mother, at 65, I was almost the youngest person there.

            The sermon was delivered by some 3rd stringer ~ that hammered and hammered “Why are you here?” ~ while not a single mention of the crucifixion and resurrection ~ speaking rather of the Prophet John the Baptist and the foretelling.

            Later, telling mother, I found Easter service rather odd without it. ~ Mom say, “Oh! we discuss the crucifixion and resurrection all the time!” ~~ No need seen to bring it forward on such a special day as Easter ~ I suppose???????

            Locked in their own tiny world! They are believing that just inviting “all to come and join in” ~ should be appealing for anyone found worthy, pure in heart and hungry for the “word”

            Hells Bells ! It would take a dye in the wool, hard nose “Church of Christ” Christian to ever walk through the door and stay 10 minutes! ~

            While a friendly bunch of folks ~ they have a strange notions of “outreach” ~~ so they die off and the building will be sold or donated to a Church of Christ affiliation, ~ exactly like the last one was.

            About the 7th time this Pastor ask, “Why are you here?” ~ I want to just jump up and telling him ~ I came here for my mother ~ but it was a bad idea! and I’m not going to ever do it again! I promise!

            The GOP better ~ learn to change something beside just moving some labels around ~ if they plan on being a part of the future.

          • robbiefine@hotmail.com

            I appreciated this well written and well thought out piece. I laughed out loud at least 3 times.

          • Bob666

            Yo Deer,
            I understand where you are coming from. There is an Episcopalian church in my neighborhood and I go there every couple off weeks to reflect on life and to give thanks since I feel very blessed for the life I have. It is a nice church with a very nice congregation and they put a sign out front “open for prayer” when the church is available between their scheduled activities.

            As I have debated the bible and many other broad concepts of life, I am willing to accept the possibilities that everything in the bible is correct even if not proven on faith. The GOP tapped into the church since Christians operate on faith over proof and when church leaders say vote for X, many in the congregation say amen without hesitation.

            But alas, I believe that may have back-fired on the GOP and the religious right as many voters are taking more of an independent view. I accept god in his wisdom, it’s some of his followers (alondra, matrix, samurai, etc) that cause me concern.

            God is good, it is man who treats one another badly in his name that makes life miserable for all and I have to believe that as a race of people, God is probably not to impressed.

          • macgyver1948

            R. F. … Include the idiot Pizza man in that “God told me to run” deception. I tend to believe when a person runs for office, since we generally cannot know the real them, they are attempting to tell us who they are within their words. These 3 morons, Rick Perry AND Michelle Bachmann and God’s other “choice”, Cain, who made some of his women employees feel the need to please him, very much told us who they are in much of their unbelievable statements. And they were showing how they represented their parties. There are others in the TP GOP who also made deceptive statements and some of these were silly statements and some were dangerous, as in those who supported “legal rape” or the very generalized statement “if you are unemployed it is your fault” (what a typical Cain-ism that turned out to be) . What a party.

            You say “Clearly God is a Republican”. I have to assume you are being sarcastic because more clearly it is most likely God wouldn’t be totally in business for the benefit and protection of the very wealthy and the big corporations as the GOP is instead of, or even at the expense of, the rest of us.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… I agree with what you say here. It is totally coincidental for God to care about the conservative just like it is for God to care about the Liberal. I think all that might matter to God is our agendas/intentions and ultimately our actions. Being conservative or of any religion does not automatically make any person righteous. It is so funny to see some people think since they are of a particular religion or of a particular political persuasion their actions are not important. I could call this a reality denier or a M Bachmann syndrome, LOL…

  • http://Yahoo.com W.D. Heater

    So long as most Americans see Establishment Republicans as interested primarily in
    serving the interests of the wealthy and privileged, dogmatic and disdainful of the middle
    and lower classes the party will continue to lose influence and elections

    • macgyver1948

      W.D. Heater… You are so right, as they should lose if all they support, in their actions are the very wealthy and the large corporations. Why should the rest of us support the GOP?

    • R.F.

      They will also continue to lose elections as long as they continue to run dopes as candidates. They had Michelle Bachman who thinks the Founding Fathers ended slavery! They had Sarah Palin who thought Africa was a country! They had Rich Perry who thought you could get rain by praying for it and who didn’t even know what his own “action” plan was! Then there are the rape and abortion fruit cakes! And of course Mitt Romney who disdained socialized medicine but then said that Israel’s socialized medical system was the best care in the world! When you run clowns as your leaders people are not going to take you seriously.

  • macgyver1948

    I do not like it when Democratic politicians do it but then they do not complain so overtly about “Government over spending” as the GOP does. How can the GOP claim they are against excessive government spending when:

    From http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/01/todd-akin-allen-west-government-money_n_2990163.html?utm_source=DailyBrief&utm_campaign=040113&utm_medium=email&utm_content=FeaturePhoto&utm_term=Daily%20Brief

    WASHINGTON — After Todd Akin lost the Missouri Senate race to Democrat Claire McCaskill in November, he had one final piece of business to take care of as an outgoing member of the House of Representatives — giving piles of government money to his staff. Akin nearly doubled the salaries of his House staffers in the quarter after his defeat, according to the website LegiStorm, which tracks congressional pay.

    Allen West, a Tea Party favorite from South Florida, was the fourth biggest giver of taxpayer bonuses after he lost reelection to Rep. Patrick Murphy (D-Fla.). Rep. Chip Cravaack (R-Minn.) was the third most generous, according to LegiStorm.

    888

    Well, if we were paying attention, we know that both Todd Akin and Allen West had problems with realities and goals, contradictions of purpose, that is working for the benefit of the country, but that seems typical of their side all too often. Whose money are these guys over spending anyway as they complain about government over spending in general?

  • Joey

    Can we make these appeals without dragging Rubio along with the real Tea Partiers?
    I’m asking his supporters, what has he accomplished, exactly, in the Senate besides buddying up to McCain and Graham to go along with his closeness to the Bush family?
    The base has caught on by now about him.

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