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The Political Economy Of Government Employee Unions

March 10, 2011 by  

The Political Economy Of Government Employee Unions

The main reason so many State and local governments are bankrupt, or on the verge of bankruptcy, is the combination of government-run monopolies and government-employee unions. Government-employee unions have vastly more power than do private-sector unions because the entities they work for are typically monopolies.

When the employees of a grocery store, for example, go on strike and shut down the store, consumers can simply shop elsewhere, and the grocery-store management is perfectly free to hire replacement workers. In contrast, when a city teachers’ or garbage-truck drivers’ union goes on strike, there is no school and no garbage collection as long as the strike goes on. In addition, teachers’ tenure (typically after two or three years in government schools) and civil-service regulations make it extremely costly if not virtually impossible to hire replacement workers.

Thus, when government bureaucrats go on strike they have the ability to completely shut down the entire "industry" they "work" in indefinitely. The taxpayers will complain bitterly about the absence of schools and garbage collection, forcing the mayor, governor, or city councilors to quickly cave in to the union’s demands to avoid risking the loss of their own jobs due to voter dissatisfaction. This process is the primary reason why, in general, the expenses of State and local governments have skyrocketed year in and year out, while the "production" of government employees declines.

For decades, researchers have noted that the more money that is spent per pupil in the government schools, the worse is the performance of the students. Similar outcomes are prevalent in all other areas of government "service." As Milton Friedman once wrote, government bureaucracies—especially unionized ones—are like economic black holes where increased "inputs" lead to declining "outputs." The more that is spent on government schools, the less educated are the students. The more that is spent on welfare, the more poverty there is and so on. This of course is the exact opposite of normal economic life in the private sector, where increased inputs lead to more products and services, not fewer.

Thirty years ago, the economist Sharon Smith was publishing research showing that government employees were paid as much as 40 percent more than comparable private-sector employees. If anything, that wage premium has likely increased.

The enormous power of government-employee unions effectively transfers the power to tax from voters to the unions. Because government-employee unions can so easily force elected officials to raise taxes to meet their "demands," it is they, not the voters, who control the rate of taxation within a political jurisdiction. They are the beneficiaries of a particular form of taxation without representation (not that taxation with representation is much better). This is why some States have laws prohibiting strikes by government-employee unions. (The unions often strike anyway.)

Politicians are caught in a political bind by government-employee unions: If they cave in to their wage demands and raise taxes to finance them, then they increase the chances of being kicked out of office themselves in the next election. The "solution" to this dilemma has been to offer government-employee unions moderate wage increases but spectacular pension promises. This allows politicians to pander to the unions but defer the costs to the future, long after the panderers are retired from politics.

As taxpayers in California, Wisconsin, Indiana and many other States are realizing, the future has arrived. The Wall Street Journal reports that State and local governments in the United States currently have $3.5 trillion in unfunded pension liabilities. They must either raise taxes dramatically to fund these liabilities, as some have already done, or drastically cut back or eliminate government-employee pensions.

Government-employee unions are primarily interested in maximizing the profits of the union. Consequently, they use civil-service regulations as a tool to protect the job of every last government bureaucrat, no matter how incompetent or irresponsible he or she is. Fewer employed bureaucrats mean fewer union dues are being paid. Thus, it is almost guaranteed that government-employee unions will challenge in court the attempted dismissal of all bureaucrats save the occasional ones who are accused of actual criminal behavior. This means that firing an incompetent government school teacher, for example, can take months, or years, of legal wrangling.

Politicians discovered long ago that the most convenient response to this dilemma is to actually reward the incompetent bureaucrat with an administrative job that he or she will gladly accept, along with its higher pay and perks. That solves the problem of parents who complain that their children’s math teacher cannot do math, while eliminating the possibility of a lawsuit by the union. This is why government-school administrative offices are bloated bureaucratic monstrosities filled with teachers who can’t teach and are given the responsibilities of "administering" the entire school system instead. No private-sector school could survive with such a perverse policy.

Government-employee unions are also champions of "featherbedding"—the union practice of forcing employers to hire more than the number of people necessary to do the job. If this occurs in the private sector, the higher wage costs will make the firm less competitive and less profitable. It may even go bankrupt, as the heavily unionized American steel, automobile and textile industries learned decades ago.

No such thing happens in government, where there are no profit-and-loss statements, in an accounting sense, and most agencies are monopolies anyway. Featherbedding in the government sector is viewed as a benefit to both politicians and unions—but certainly not to taxpayers. The unions collect more union dues with more government employees, while the politicians get to hand out more patronage jobs. Each patronage job is usually worth two or more votes, since the government employee can always be counted on to get at least one family member or close friend to vote for the politician who gave him the job. This is why, in the vast literature showing the superior efficiency of private versus government enterprises, government almost always has higher labor costs for the same functions.

Every government-employee union is a political machine that lobbies relentlessly for higher taxes, increased government spending, more featherbedding and more pension promises—while demonizing hesitant taxpayers as uncaring enemies of children, the elderly and the poor (who are purportedly "served" by the government bureaucrats the unions represent).

It is the old socialist trick that Frédéric Bastiat wrote about in his famous essay, The Law: The unions view advocates of school privatization, not as legitimate critics of a failed system, but as haters of children. And the unions treat critics of the welfare state, not as persons concerned with the destruction of the work ethic and of the family that has been caused by the welfare state, but as enemies of the poor.

This charade is over. American taxpayers finally seem to be aware that they are the servants, not the masters, of government at all levels. Government-employee unions have played a key role in causing bankruptcy in most American States, and their pleas for more bailouts financed by endless tax increases are finally ringing hollow.

Thomas Miller

lives with his wife and three sons in the Northeastern quadrant of the United States. He has completed countless hours of advanced training in both clinical and trauma medicine and is a Nationally Registered Emergency Medical Technician. Tom has also completed several courses in disaster and emergency planning/management as well as hazardous materials handler and transport certification. He graduated with honors from American Military University with an Associate of Arts in Real Estate Studies. Tom is a U.S. Army combat veteran who served with honor as a combat medic on his multiple overseas tours during the Global War on Terror. During his time in the Army, Tom became an expert in the use of several weapons (including long guns, sidearms and improvised weaponry) and obtained competence with many other weapon systems, including foreign firearms. The Army also afforded Tom the opportunity to become proficienct in the driving and operation of several different vehicles from Humvees to heavy trucks and tracked vehicles. If there happens to be any free time available, Tom can be found sharing his passion for fishing with his sons, working on a project in the wood shop, tending to the garden or trying to maintain some resemblance of physical fitness. Tom's other writings can be viewed on his blog, The Prepared Ninja, at www.thepreparedninja.com. If you are on Twitter, Tom can be followed on the handle @preparedninja.

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  • s c

    Ain’t that a #^&*+? Uncle Scam has so many public sector union types on his payroll (er, side) that a monopoly is no longer a dirty word. Seems a bit strange, because for so many years Americans were indoctrinated to believe that ALL monopolies were BAD. Now, somehow, monopolies (including the Fed) are OK. Isn’t there a word that describes that?
    There are many ways to describe the relationship of Uncle Scam and public sector unions, but my favorite is the idea that big government can’t grow anything but corrupt, diseased fruit. It’s no different than the idea that incest is the best way to keep a family ‘intact.’
    We’re supposed to ignore the fact that this ‘relationship’ will speed the destruction of America in the name of change, transformation and divine leadership. I guess it really proves that some people will believe anything if it feels good and sounds good (no matter what happens to America).
    We’re not supposed to see this charade as a conflict of interest. After all, it’s being done wth the very best of intentions, and Uncle Scam ALWAYS knows what’s best.

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      Wall street was the cause of this problem when it tanked it destroyed all the States,City and Town workers hard saved pension invested money.
      There was no Bush bail out for main street only wall street.You want reform let’s reform the tax code first so all of us pay a fair share.
      All the TV and radio hosts you listen to they do not care about you they are all in it for the money check out Newsweek November 8,2010

      • Bobby Singh

        When the Democratic party pushes for loans for welfre mamas, then there is a problem. Ask ACORN and community organizers (Obama) how to organize and blackmail banks and corporations for loans..Of course teh Wall Street will also ride this band wagon of gravy train.

        • gail

          This sounds like its coming from a true rotten republican. The days of the greedy sleeze balls will soon be coming to an end. The poor and middle class are rising up. Wisconsin’s gov. needs to be tarred and feathered and thrown out with the trash.

          • Ellen1

            Yes the poor and middle class are rising up; they’re not only sick and tired of being raped by the unions but UNABLE to any more. We have a hard time paying for food, fuel and the rest AND we are expected to pay for these parasites’ bloated salaries and benefits? I have no benefits. This must stop.

          • BikerHoop

            The working class HAS risen up and spoken loud and clear. It was called November 2010… remember that?

            “The days of the greedy sleeze balls will soon be coming to an end.” They HAVE ended. See above paragraph.

            Now all we have to deal with is the chickens**t democraps who,like little kids, ran away the first time they were going to lose. Did you know that’s against Wisconsin law? I’ll provide proof:

            Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:

            946.12(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, (1) nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law.

            A Class I felony is punishable by a $10,000 penalty and 3 1/2 years in jail.

            So, the next time you’re tempted to spew the regurgitated puke from your punk union thug bosses, remember you are financially supporting Class 1 felons.

            Have a great day!

          • JC

            gail says:
            March 10, 2011 at 6:26 pm
            This sounds like its coming from a true rotten republican. The days of the greedy sleeze balls will soon be coming to an end. The poor and middle class are rising up. Wisconsin’s gov. needs to be tarred and feathered and thrown out with the trash.
            —————————————————————

            Bye Bye gail….you and the rest of you communist types are going down hard and fast! We not only can’t, but won’t carry your dead weight asses anymore.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Gail, you are blind and ignorant. What Wisconsin’s governor has done has saved thousand of these middle class teacher’s jobs. Without him doing what he did, there was no money to pay them, and thousand would have lost their jobs, not just in Wisconsin, but many there alone. When money got tight as Obama crumbled the economy, our company all voluntarily took 10 percent pay cuts to keep us solvent. Now, a year later, we have gotten overly busy, while many local contractors went belly up and many more, including the union, have mass amounts of employees laid off. I know, because 20 of them from 5 different contractors are working temporarily for us. But these teachers union people dont want to pay their fair share and have to pay health care premiums and make concessions so that all of them can keep working. And that is just another fact that has show itself to be true again of the unions and their greed. They only care about themselves and how much money they can suck out of a company or a government. Had they really cared about each other, they would have glady all took less for the betterment of all, but they were not and still are not willing to do that. That is selfishness at its best. I applaud Wisconsin’s governor for attempting to balance his states budget. For years all of us have been bitching at the government to get its house in order and balance their budget and quit spending more than they have. And now that this is started, the union doesnt want to be a part of the solution, just remaining a big part of the problem. Shame on them. Shame on them all.

          • granny mae

            Beberoni,

            You ave it right. Good for you !

        • Bud Tugly

          From the NY Times:

          The clear and present danger to recovery, however, comes from politics — specifically, the demand from House Republicans that the government immediately slash spending on infant nutrition, disease control, clean water and more. Quite aside from their negative long-run consequences, these cuts would lead, directly and indirectly, to the elimination of hundreds of thousands of jobs — and this could short-circuit the virtuous circle of rising incomes and improving finances.

          Of course, Republicans believe, or at least pretend to believe, that the direct job-destroying effects of their proposals would be more than offset by a rise in business confidence. As I like to put it, they believe that the Confidence Fairy will make everything all right.

          But there’s no reason for the rest of us to share that belief. For one thing, it’s hard to see how such an obviously irresponsible plan — since when does starving the I.R.S. for funds help reduce the deficit? — can improve confidence.

          Beyond that, we have a lot of evidence from other countries about the prospects for “expansionary austerity” — and that evidence is all negative. Last October, a comprehensive study by the International Monetary Fund concluded that “the idea that fiscal austerity stimulates economic activity in the short term finds little support in the data.”

          And do you remember the lavish praise heaped on Britain’s conservative government, which announced harsh austerity measures after it took office last May? How’s that going? Well, business confidence did not, in fact, rise when the plan was announced; it plunged, and has yet to recover. And recent surveys suggest that confidence has fallen even further among both businesses and consumers, indicating, as one report put it, that the private sector is “unprepared to fill the hole left by public sector cuts.”

          Which brings us back to the U.S. budget debate.

          Over the next few weeks, House Republicans will try to blackmail the Obama administration into accepting their proposed spending cuts, using the threat of a government shutdown. They’ll claim that those cuts would be good for America in both the short term and the long term.

          But the truth is exactly the reverse: Republicans have managed to come up with spending cuts that would do double duty, both undermining America’s future and threatening to abort a nascent economic recovery.

          • spitfire

            There is no reason to believe the UNION FAIRY, that it will get better with the UNION in power. How is it that paying too much for labor is going to help the country. There is no reason to believe if the government, or private enterprise continues to pay the exhorbitant pentions that the country will prosper when the government cannot even balance its budget. The steel workers, tire workers, and the auto workers were essentialy put out of work because of High priced labor, and outlandish pensions way into the future.Of all the places that are wrong for UNIONs, it would be government workers. The UNIONS are going the way of the T-REX and the sooner the better for America.

          • RWS

            Butt Ugly, you can’t be serious. If you think for one minute that this level of govt. spending and govt. debt is sustainable and good for America’s future, you need to rethink it. The more the govt. spends and grows and meddles with the economy, the more problems it creates. Not necessarily now, but those problems are coming in the future. And as a matter of fact, the future is rapidly approaching. Now we’re getting closer and closer to dealing with the problems of big govt. and increased govt. spending(deficit spending) that have taken place year after year. The ponzi scheme that is govt. employee pension and the ponzi scheme that is social security is exactly that, a ponzi scheme. Those who got in early will see benefits and returns but those who get in late get nothing and only help foot the bill. I’m 27 years old I’m affraid for my generation not to mention my kids generation or even future grand kids. We are screwed if we think we can keep papering over our problems with more spending and more debt. It is ridiculous. Eventually it all comes to a head and we are seeing some of it right now but I feel, like many on this site, that many many more bad things are coming.

          • JC

            From the NY Times…Nuff said!

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Sarge… I agree that the IRS needs to be abolished and the Fair Tax enacted. I don’t know how anyone couldn’t agree with this. It doesn’t get any fairer!

        • DaveH

          Although anything would be better than the Income Tax system, it isn’t the form of taxation that is the major problem. The major problem is the Government Spending. That is what we need to concentrate on.
          And for those who think Fair Tax is the solution, please read this:
          http://mises.org/daily/1814

          • Carlucci

            DaveH – That was a great article. There is no such thing as a “fair tax”. It is a contradiction in terms. Most people hear the word “fair” and then “tax”, and jump on the bandwagon without knowing much about taxation. You can bet your bippy that if something like a “fair tax” or VAT was implemented, the powers that be would find a way to weasel out of eliminating the income tax, and the American people would suffer even more taxation than they do now.

            It is my understanding that virtually all income tax collected goes to pay off the interest on the so called “national debt”. It does not go towards the infrastructure of the USA. Who created the national debt? It certainly wasn’t the American people. Voila – ! Cherchez les politiciens – !!

            It is like someone running up huge credit card bills and agreeing to pay the principle, but telling a relative or friend that they will have to pay the interest on the debts.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            DaveH:

            Good article and it pointed out some things I had wondered about, and some things I had overlooked in my analysis.

            Hwever, I still think it is a good idea. My perspective was that the bill itself would / could be straightened out and streamlined during the debate process.

            I was looking forward to using the underground economy.

            If the bill were to be passed it could be done so with the stipulation that it not be implemented until the 16th was repealed.

            Does the author of this article have any solutions himself?

            If nothing else the Fair Tax debate will bring our contry’s tax quagmire to the forefront and get a stimulating discussion started, and maintained.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Carlucci:

            Who created the debt? Maybe the politicians did indirectly, but ultimately we the voters were responsible. The politicians cannot be there inless we put them there. And we have been continually putting them there over, and over, and over.

            That is what Nomvember 2010 was about. Maybe we the voters have finally turned off the cruise control.

            Let’s hope the Fair Tax debate gets started and bring the entire tax issue to a rolling boil.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, I have to agree…what is so difficult to understand? Government over spending, it’s so simple yet some who pose as being highly educated couldn’t balance a checkbook or can’t even comprehend that you can’t spend more than you take in without going in debt.

          • DaveH

            Henry, as you can see in another comment on this page, I advocate a Flat Tax. And I don’t mean a Flat Rate Tax which is commonly called Flat Tax. I mean a real Flat Tax, where every adult is liable for the same amount of tax. See my other comment for more on that.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            This fair tax thing they wanted to implement, is everything but fair. It is a joke, and unfair as anything can possible be. The fair thing would be a flat tax with no loopholes on things we purchase, a flat sales tax. That way, if say they set it at 10 percent, (just useing that for easy figuring), and I buy a 400.00 boat, I can pay my 10 percent tax, 40.00. If some Mr. Deep Pockets, like say, one John Kerry goes and buys a 4 million dollar yacht, he pays 10 percent, or 400 thousand dollars. 10 percent is 10 percent. No loopholes for companies or the rich or anyone. 10 percent is 10 percent. I think if they did this, and closed the loopholes where the fat cats go out and have 3000.00 lunches and write it off as a business expense, then us tax payers absorb it, this would go away. Instead, they would pay a 10 percent tax of 300.00 for this. I believe they would find the tax coffers over flowing with money. Then we still have the problem you mention so often Dave, which is very, very true. They all, on both sides of the aisles, need to reign in their spending, and be held accountable for what they do and spend.

          • DaveH

            I can’t understand the soak the rich philosophy. They earned their money legally (usually) with voluntary agreements. Why should they have to pay the lion’s share of the tax bill? I’m just happy that they provide jobs for us. So many want to look a gift horse in the mouth and kick them in the teeth.
            Besides that, as I’ve pointed out many times, we all (all of us who actually work at least) pay the bill one way or the other in the end (higher product prices, etc.). The only ones who make out are the freeloaders and the politically connected (including politicians).

          • Marty S.

            Great article Dave. The day of reckoning is at hand. The size, scope and costs of government at all levels is crushing the taxpayer. As for the liberal loons and their good-ol-boy system and the creation of government-unions during the good times, life is about to change. What a bummer that empty promises were made to the public sector government service folks and it is coming back to roost. However, we the people can’t afford to continually try to meet their never ending demands. ” Elections have consequences ” so let the dissenters rant but they ought really be yelling at those (libs) who set it all up. Their grease the palm system was broken to begin with. We simply cannot afford to continue to hemorrhage not only from the effects of the recession but astronomical growth in government. Your turn my liberal friends.

          • JC

            Old Henry says:
            March 10, 2011 at 11:26 am
            Carlucci:

            Who created the debt? Maybe the politicians did indirectly, but ultimately we the voters were responsible. The politicians cannot be there inless we put them there. And we have been continually putting them there over, and over, and over.
            ______________________________________________________________

            Henry you’re right and wrong at the same time. Yes we the voters let this happen…BUT! The debt was actually created long before most of us were born. In 1913 when the Wilson’s government of the day brought the most unConstitutional 16th Amendment and allowed foreigners to dictate our money supply by way of the Federal Reserve. Which is not Federal and has no Reserves. Unfortunately the voters then and for the most part now, don’t have a clue that the whole system is a sham.

          • http://yahoo Fred Hammel

            How can America have a fair tax,when only 45 percent of Americas workforce pays taxes(private sector). 55 percent of our workforce works for the government(fed.,state,local, and all school districts)and they do not pay taxes,after all their salaries comes the private sector. I would like to one politician say that on national TV or radio. I would like to hear this out of one of the talk shows.
            Would a man working in the private sector making 10 dollars per hour, hire a servant and pay him 30 dollars per hour, this is called a DEFICIT.

        • Chris

          Ladies and Gentlemen, the question is what is a “fair tax”? If you can get anyone to agree on that then maybe there is a chance to abolish the IRS.

        • http://Verizon Bud G.

          Sarge is right about the taxes but remember who was in charge in Congress when the crash happened and one of the reasons was the actions taken by none other than Barney Frank and Chris Dodd in the housing market. Then they turn around and put Barney Frank in charge of financial regulation. Wouldn’t the average citizen question the soundness of such a decision?

          I was also in Viet Nam in 1968 but you can see we have different perspectives on who is responsible for what happened. I was close to the on goings in Washington,.D.C. for seven years and was glad to see some of the trash being taken out in Congress and we need to do more in 2012.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You are correct on that. While Bill Clinton set up this scam to lend money to people who no way in hell could pay it back, so that they could live the American dream of owning a house, even though they couldnt pay for it, and Barney Frank was named the head of the oversight committee to make sure this Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac funded thing was run right, and he let Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelick write million dollar checks like drunken sailors to all their democrat friends, and when Bush called for an investigation, Barney said none was needed, everything was ok. Then when it caught up and banks started collapsing, these same guys stood there and pointed the fingers at Bush and blamed him. This is how the left works, never taking responsibility for their actions. Just like the downfall of society, where now days, it is always someone elses fault. A guy gets drunk, and its the bars fault. A guy murders someone, and its the drugs fault. A guy molest’s kids, and its his parents or the schools fault because he had a rough child hood. Obama lets an oil rig be towed into the Gulf and drill in 5000′ of water, way after Bush is out of office, and yet its Bush’s fault. Clinton and Frank and Company set up this bank scam federally backed loans to those who cant pay them back, collapse the banking system, and its Bush’s fault. Its just amazing. Simply amazing. And the liberal press lets them get away with it. Frank, Raines and Gorelick and few others should be in jail for what they have done, no question about it.

          • Patty

            Berberoni – not only that, barney was banging the head of Fanny Mae

          • Patty
        • spitfire

          I have no reason to believe that the fair tax would be anybetter than what we now have, for the simple reason we have too much government corruption. They will continue to find ways of accessing money, no matter what is done, and they will also continue to pee away any money they can get thier grubby fingers on.

          We first need a regime change, before we begin rearanging the house we live in. Our foreign budget is way out of wack! Now they are actually thinking another war would be good. We have the planes, and the men to fly them, lets spend them.

          We need to replace this lame government, with a constitutional government .

      • http://www.piedmontwebmasterservices.com Dan

        So what’s your idea of a fair share? You do realize no matter where the taxes occur or on who, it’s a tax on us all? Tax any business and the business passes on the taxes to the consumer if they want to stay in business and retain their stockholders. Tax the rich more? You could tax every American 100 percent of their income and it would pay for the proposed budget, and never pay down the debt.

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Dan… Google Fair Tax. It will explain it much better than I can. And… I don’t mean to imply that the Fair Tax would take care of our debt problem. It’s just a good idea that’s time has come. Our debt problem is far-reaching and so serious that it is going to take our government a long time to figure out what they need to do to get our country back on track. Many pork projects need to be cut. What Congress needs to decide is if it were THEIR money, how would they spend it? That is not what they have been doing for years and years, thus our mess!

          • meteorlady

            The initial “fair tax” rate would be set at around 28% – add to that city, county and state sales taxes and you would be paying something like 38%. So. the true estimate, to make what we do today, would be around 34%. So you are all for paying 34% or more in sales tax on your purchases while the rich just go off shore and make their purchases? You are all for small business and retainers collecting taxes for the government thus putting an extra burden on business? You are all for unfair taxation is what you are for. Please read up on it. It’s happened in other countries and it’s not going well for them.

          • Carlucci

            Why would anyone want to keep giving money in taxes for the federal Leviathan to collect when Fedzilla has proven over and over again that they have no intention of being prudent and responsible with money? Look at the mess they have made. Those people have consistently proven that they can screw up a wet dream. It’s like asking the fox to guard the hen house. How can you expect Fedzilla to implement anything that is “fair” or makes sense? The definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            The fair tax is very unfair Robin. People like you and I will suffer more a tax burden under it than a rich bastard like John Kerry, and I need not remind you how wrong that is.

        • JUKEBOX

          I have been preaching the “PASS THROUGH” message for years, but the average person is too stupid to realize that the end consumer pays every penny of tax from start to finish.

          • http://www.piedmontwebmasterservices.com Dan

            “The fair tax is not in addition to current taxes but instead is a substitute for them. The fair tax design and the amount, 23 percent, were chosen to provide the same revenue to the federal government that is currently generated. This ensures that there are no changes in funding of current programs and entitlements.”

            The above is quoted from the “fair tax” website. The last sentence in the quote makes it a killer for me. We don’t want to keep funding so called programs and entitlements. We want the government to just do what it was originally intended to do and that has nothing to do with “programs and entitlements” We should not get “entitlements” from the government. That is a socialist idea and needs to be done away with.

          • meteorlady

            Fair tax would have to be 34% to get the revenue that they are now getting. It will do nothing to pay down the deficit. It will just keep the government going at it’s current rate or growth.

          • Dan az

            Dan
            The national retail sales tax rate under the FairTax plan is 23 percent. That is on top of state sales taxes that are currently collected by forty-five states. That is on top of the sales tax that many cities and counties also collect. That is on top of the special taxes that exist on hotel rooms in most areas of the country. I suppose that a national retail sales tax would also apply to gasoline. There is no mention of the federal gas tax anywhere in the Fair Tax Act of 2005. No list of taxes that are supposed to be eliminated under the FairTax includes the federal gas tax. Does this mean that there will be an additional 23 percent tax on each gallon of gasoline?

            The FairTax will make it easier for Congress to raise taxes. The initial rate of 23 percent is supposed to begin in 2007. For years after 2007, “the rate of tax is the combined Federal tax rate percentage.” This combined percentage is the total of three things: the general revenue rate (stated to be 14.91 percent); the old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate; and the hospital insurance rate. This is all but saying that the rate will be adjusted every year. And it will be very easy for Congress to do so. To raise several billion dollars of additional revenue, all that will be necessary is for Congress to raise the tax rate by one percentage point by small adjustments in one or more of the three items that make up the combined percentage rate. It will be sold to the American people as “a penny for progress,” or some other deceitful scheme.

            Under the FairTax system, there are no longer any Social Security and Medicare taxes. However, this does not mean that Social Security and Medicare will be eliminated. The inclusion in the combined percentage of the old-age, survivors and disability insurance and the hospital insurance rates means that the Ponzi scheme known as Social Security will continue as is—only the way it is funded will change.

      • Bruce D.

        SMS you do not care about the taxpayer or a children’s education. This is a very clear and accurate post by Deloenzo. You do not want to understand because you could care less about anyone else but yourself and your perverse associates. This is not about Wall Street or Bush. Those are separate issues. This is about a corrupt teachers union who funnels money to corrupt politicians in exchange for political and economical power.

        • http://www.scribd.com/doc/50311276/Democrat-Organizer-Wexler-on-FairTax-Transcript Daar Fisher

          Working together, as Democrats, Republicans, Independents, we can fix America’s tax system. Here are some of the “fixes” we can expect by passing the FairTax Act:

          • Returns control of the family purse to the family.
          • Income tax withholding ended.
          • Federal gov’t paid, only as families spend and benefit.
          • “The rate” is an easily-graspable indicator of fed. costs to families.
          • Only those who are genuinely subsistent pay no tax.
          • The income tax code is gone.
          • Social engineering gone with the tax code.
          • Lobbyist numbers shrink by half – no more tax favors.
          • FairTax far less prone to corruptible manipulation.
          • The wealthy pay their fair share.
          • Taxpayers have “new at retail” purchasing “strike” power to express displeasure.
          • Externalizes taxes that are buried in prices – makes true tax load visible.
          • FairTax can be jettisoned prior to export, enhancing our exports, and correcting current border problems.
          • Trillions of dollars resting off-shore is repatriated.
          • The U.S. becomes the global home of business formation, and will set the pace for other nations.
          • Prebate replaces bureaucratically code-mediated credits, deductions with cold hard cash against EVERY CITIZEN’s basic needs.
          • No more income tax returns.
          • No more IRS.
          • No more threats by IRS (audits, interest, penalites, and worse!)
          • Income tax withholding ended.
          • Minimizes ability of gov’t to compete against private enterprise (non-tax exempt) thereby encouraging “limited gov’t.”
          • Eliminates the current “permission to live” income tax (i.e., tax liability ceases to be incurred by working).
          • Purported 4th Amendment violations of income tax system, fixed.
          • Purported 5th Amendment violations of income tax system, fixed.
          • Purported 1st Amendment violations of income tax system, fixed.
          • FairTax clears away the confusion and clutter (and intended Congressional obfuscation) that hampers a clearer focus on Congressional spending because it ends the ability of pitting poor against rich.

          • leo

            Fair Tax passed?

            If so, then I would only Barter and never Buy.

          • thinking

            Daar dream big! There will not be change for the better, it is human nature. If you read the artical you see the loop and the ones in control do not have control. Often said the tail wagging the dog. The scare is to use children and elderly hostage. If you take from us they will be hurt. It has worked so many years for democrates. But the weight of passing to the next generation is coming to an end. What will this country be like in a few years? Dictator or seperated states? or will the government sell all our souls to satan?

          • Vigilant

            Working together? You will NEVER get the Democrats to agree with the fair tax, period.

          • meteorlady

            I have to agree with Leo – I would barter and never buy directly. I would also stop doing business as a retailer or small business because I will not pay to keep books for the government. You are shifting the burden to business who in turn will shift the burden back to you in the form of higher goods and services prices.

          • JC

            daar, don’t forget the Federal Reserve…which isn’t even American, let alone Federal and it has no reserves, just “debt creating” printing presses.
            End that, and a good deal of what you advocate falls into place all by itself.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Daar Fisher:

            To begin, I am in favor of the Fair Tax, if for no other reason than to get the debate to a rolling boil and get the public engaged.

            How is the IRS gone? DaveH’s linked article pointed out that the bill makes, and it cannot, no provision for repealing the 16th. The repeal must be done via a separate constitutional ammendment process.

            How do we control congress to get that one done?

            What prevents congress from raising the tax to 30%, 40% 70% over time?

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Thinking:

            If Little Barry has his way it will be dictator. And if he is re-elected that will come to fruition.

          • spitfire

            You are just plain frikken nuts. It would raise retail prices astronomically and that would cause so much inflation we would capsize. I would imagine you are a proponent of the VAT tax also. There is really nothing wrong with the current system, except a corrupt government.
            First lets get us a regime change, and then we will see what things are bad and need to be replaced.

          • JC

            spitfire says:
            March 11, 2011 at 10:43 am
            You are just plain frikken nuts. It would raise retail prices astronomically and that would cause so much inflation we would capsize. I would imagine you are a proponent of the VAT tax also. There is really nothing wrong with the current system, except a corrupt government.
            ___________________________________________________________-
            Do you “get” that the Federal Reserve and the IRS are the same bunch of gangsters? There’s PLENTY wrong with the present system. It needs to be entirely abolished.

        • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

          And of course big business in the healthcare, insurance, pharmaceutical, Wall Street and other olygopolies never funnel copious quantities of money to Congress and the politicians. They have even had the Supreme Court allow them to advertise without restriction of amounts.
          The new democracy is now these special groups and they use quasi .com organizations, with people based sounding names to help control the message.
          Did you notice how the top 5% successfully navigated the 7 year tax break into a further 2 year hiatus by calling it a tax increase. This from a collective group with a net worth of $47 trillion. I am not saying that the public service unions should not be curtailed in thei demands but I am saying that fair tax treatment requires that those able to afford it the most, pay a fair share.
          The tax break to the top 5% requires the government to borrow $700bn per year, and that is added to the national debt. The latest break brought in by GWB has added $4.2bn and the extension will add another $1.5bn. This is crazy when you have people loosing their jobs and having to live in motels because they cannot afford apartments.

          • DaveH

            No doubt they do, Graeme. That is why the only real solution to all this inequality is Smaller Government, much smaller. And much more transparency of whatever Government we do end up with.

          • meteorlady

            You people keep harping on more taxes for the rich – the means you are advocating more spending by the federal government. Did you know that just in the new health care bill there are some 50 new agencies included. How much money is that going to cost us. No… the solution is not new taxing or more taxes on the rich and business – it’s less FEDERAL government. They have so far over-reached their charter that it’s getting beyond stupid – it’s getting dangerous to the continuation of our Republic.

          • Vigilant

            Graeme says, “but I am saying that fair tax treatment requires that those able to afford it the most, pay a fair share.”

            Apparently the top 10% of wealth owners paying 90+% of the taxes in this country is “unfair,” by your reckoning.

            Apparently the second highest corporate tax rate (39.4%) amongst the industrialized nations is still too low for you and your ilk.

            Apparently the second half of the equation (spending) is invisible to you.

            Apparently the works of Karl Marx have an honored place on your bookshelves.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            meteorlady you are right. The government keeps growing and growing and we keep paying and paying. If we eliminated half of these worthless government social handout agencies, the IRS, the United Nations, and stupid things like the Dept. of Energy and Foreign Aid, we could balance the budget in no time. This same Dept. of Energy was started by Carter to wean us off of foreign oil. Right. Today we use more than ever, and we are paying over 200 thousand people in this department. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

          • meteorlady

            Medicare/Medicaid. Since the government established this program in 1965, it has amassed a $5.6 trillion deficit. This program alone accounts for 40% of our government’s total debt. If you could erase these debts, our most recent two foreign wars (Iraq/Afghanistan), and the losses associated with the recent financial crisis, you could eliminate more than half our entire federal debt – a debt threatening to destroy our way of life.

            We’ve bought a government we cannot afford. It should be obvious that when government spending makes up 45% of GDP and we have one government employee for every six households, something has gone terribly wrong with America.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            And just yesterday, I found out another big government waste project, under the disguise of helping the so called poor and needy. Project Head Start, which is supposed to help the less fortunate, the down trodden, the poor, to help give their children a head start in education. Gee, seems they have finally done a study on the effectiveness of this, and after spending more than 5 billion dollars on this, they have found that by the 3rd grade, any gains from this are lost and kids from project head start fall behind the other kids. So why are we continuing to pay billions for something that doesnt work? Political correctness.

        • Dan az

          The consumption tax, on the other hand, can only be regarded as a payment for permission-to-live. It implies that a man will not be allowed to advance or even sustain his own life, unless he pays, off the top, a fee to the State for permission to do so. The consumption tax does not strike me, in its philosophical implications, as one whit more noble, or less presumptuous, than the income tax.

          The FairTax does nothing to tame the federal leviathan. The solution is nothing less than a drastic reduction or wholesale elimination of its revenue source. What is fair about allowing the government to confiscate 23 percent of the value of every new good and service? FairTax proponents may call it necessary legislation, but I call it highway robbery.

      • Conservative at Birth

        You need to get your facts straight. The economic colapse was caused by several factors. Wall Street just went along with the program. Bill Clinton had the Glass Steagal Act from 1933 removed. This allowed for Regular Banks to get involved in the Stock Market which that act prevented. Bill Clinton dusted off and strengthened the Community Reinvestment Act of Jimmy Carter and held a gun to the heads of the Banks to make unadvisable loans to people who could not afford to repay them, thus creating the dramatic run up of housing prices. I put 20% down on my home in 1991 which I purchased at
        $ 128,000. In 1997 it was valued at $ 287,000. I new that was not realistic. If I did not live in and ideal location with many great amentities, I would have sold. It’s current value is probably between $ 225,000 and $ 235,000. GW exoanded government and ran up modest deficits. Bill Clinton started taxing the monies deducted from the average middle class Americans on the FICA contributions, destroying their ability to save and invest. Then you have the looting of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by the Left Wing Zealots Clinton put in charge. The loose credit terms where people were allowed to refinance up to 110% of the appraised value of their homes, and turn around and either buy stuff or invest is another cause of the problem, leaving them no equity when the prices of real estate dropped. They were willing dupes. I did not participate. My equity is currently70%. I am going to refinance and consolitdate some other obligations and reduce my equity to 50% taking a shorter term loan with lower aggregate payments and pay 15-18 payments a year rather than 12 wich will save me $ 49,000 in interest payments. Stupid people make up stupid ideas, like your statement.

        • Bruce D.

          I also see it that way CB. Good post.

        • DaveH

          Don’t leave out the Federal Reserve, which was one of the main players in the collapse with their money creation policies.

        • meteorlady

          Couldn’t have said it better. Add in the Federal Reserve and the some $2 BIL that disappeared from the stock market while Lehman was going down and you have the collapse. Some believe that Soros was the instigator of the $2 billion disappearing. Maybe he gave more money to Obama…..

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Amen brother, your preaching to the choir. But your telling the truth here, and there is a certain segment of our society which wholly rejects the truth, and wont accept these truths you have given. They are called left wing liberals.

      • wandamurline

        If you want reform, let’s dismantle most of the bureaus in Washington. The Department of Education needs to be dismantled and the education of our children needs to go back to the states. Without paying for all the bureaucrats in Washington, we can keep our money and have a better system of learning. Let’s take down the public sector unions….these people work for the taxpayers and it is time that they are held accountable in each state….make every state in America a right to work state…which means you don’t have to be in “no stinking union” to get a job, and it also means that if you strike, you will be replaced with someone who wants to work for the outlandish salaries that these union workers are getting. The unions need to die a fast death and now is the time for it. I believe that having to belong to a union in order to obtain a job is unconstitutional. Obamacare just got the ax because it made people purchase something they did not want…well, the unions make people join in order to get a job…this is clearly unconstitutional…everyone should be able to obtain employment without having to belong to a union. The unions are overdue for death, and now is the time to put them to sleep permanently.

        • DaveH

          You are correct that being forced to join a Union is Unconstitutional, Wanda. And why would Government ignore that fact? Because the inclination of Government leaders is, and always has been, to grow their power and perks.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You got that right Dave. And some of these people use the cop out that they need a union to protect them. If they need that, one of two things are present. One, you are a piss poor worker who shouldnt have a job there in the first place and you need to be fired, or two, if your place of work is that bad, you need to quit and seek employment elsewhere. Thats it, the bottom line. I worked union shops for quite a while and all they did was hold me down, because my hard work couldnt carry any weight, only the number of years you were there. I watched lazy ass fat butt no doers get the prime jobs, because they had been there longer, whether they were qualified or not. I watched them willingly and knowingly cost the companies I worked for thousands of dollars, some of them daily, and nothing could be done about it. Myself and another guy in my dept, often got called in and told to slow down that we were making the other guys look bad. What a crock of bull. What they should have been saying, is telling these lazy arse 20 year guys to get their lazy butts to work. Now once I got out of the union shops, where I could advance on merit, I doubled my pay in about 6 years, and now have went from being a truck driver, to being a fabrication man, to working in the front office. I took the time and care to learn the company, what they do, what needed done to make them more productive, and I did it, and it was recognized and I was rewarded for it. Sorry folks, you do not get that in a union shop, and if you say you do, your a damn liar. I know, I worked in 3 of them, and they are all the same. You dont advance by working hard, you get chastized for it. You advance by being there a long time, whether you are a worker or a butt head. And its wrong. Its so so wrong.

      • DaveH

        You want everybody to pay their fair share, Sgt? So do I. Every adult should be liable for the same taxes. Period. No exceptions. Car dealers don’t ask for income statements before they offer their price. Why should Government? After all, we all get “equal treatment” under the law. Why shouldn’t we pay equally?
        Let those adults, who can’t pay for some legitimate reason, be the ones who have to jump through the paperwork hoops. The rest of us could just cut a check and be done with it. No more jumping through the Government paperwork hoops for the responsible citizens. They have us trained like a bunch of seals with their byzantine life-manipulating tax codes. Orf, Orf.
        That way more of the 50% of the people who pay less than 3% of income taxes could become equal contributors to the Government which they get to elect equally. They would have skin in the game, and you could bet that they would vote for much less Government, and become much more aware of wasteful Government, if they were paying equally.

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Dave H… Good post… You said it much better than I did…

      • meteorlady

        Sarge – here’s your “fair share” theory in action:

        In the early 1960s, the highest marginal income tax rate was a stunning 91 percent. That top rate fell to 70 percent after the Kennedy-Johnson tax cuts and remained there until 1981. Then Ronald Reagan slashed it to 50 percent and ultimately to 28 percent after the 1986 Tax Reform Act. Although the federal tax rate fell by more than half, total tax receipts in the 1980s doubled from $517 billion in 1981 to $1,030 billion in 1990. The top tax rate rose slightly under George H. W. Bush and then moved to 39.6 percent under Bill Clinton. But under George W. Bush it fell again to 35 percent. So what’s striking is that, even as tax rates have fallen by half over the past quarter-century, taxes paid by the wealthy have increased. Lower tax rates have made the tax system more progressive, not less so. In 1980, for example, the top 5 percent of income earners paid only 37 percent of all income taxes. Today, the top 1 percent pay that proportion, and the top 5 percent pay a whopping 57 percent.

        As for Fair Tax – it’s a national sales tax and that makes it a burden on small business and retailers. I know, I collected sales tax when I did business in Washington State. We had to pay MONTHLY and QUARTERLY and I had to pay sales tax on sales, not ON COLLECTED MONEY from those sales. Fair? Not….. To do this we would need to pay 34% sales tax on purchases. That certainly is NOT FAIR to consumers and middle class. The poor will still not pay much of anything.

        http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/unspinning_the_fairtax.html

        • DaveH

          Good post, meteorlady. As usual.

          • Dan az

            Dave I have always been for the flat tax its the only way and to apply these four paragraph’s would lower the national debt.
            Monetary Reform Act – A Summary
            (in four paragraphs)

            This proposed law would require banks to increase their reserves on deposits from the current 10%, to 100%, over a one-year period. This would abolish fractional reserve banking (i.e., money creation by private banks) which depends upon fractional (i.e., partial) reserve lending. To provide the funds for this reserve increase, the US Treasury Department would be authorized to issue new United States Notes (and/or US Note accounts) sufficient in quantity to pay off the entire national debt (and replace all Federal Reserve Notes).

            The funds required to pay off the national debt are always closely equivalent to the amount of money the banks have created by engaging in fractional lending because the Fed creates 10% of the money the government needs to finance deficit spending (and uses that newly created money to buy US bonds on the open market), then the banks create the other 90% as loans (as is explained on our FAQ page). Thus the national debt closely tracks the combined total of US Treasury debt held by the Fed (10%) and the amount of money created by private banks (90%).

            Because this two-part action (increasing bank reserves to 100% and paying off the entire national debt) adds no net increase to the money supply (the two actions cancel each other in net effect on the money supply), it would cause neither inflation nor deflation, but would result in monetary stability and the end of the boom-bust pattern of US economic activity caused by our current, inherently unstable system.

            Thus our entire national debt would be extinguished – thereby dramatically reducing or entirely eliminating the US budget deficit and the need for taxes to pay the $400+ billion interest per year on the national debt – and our economic system would be stabilized, while ending the terrible injustice of private banks being allowed to create over 90% of our money as loans on which they charge us interest. Wealth would cease to be concentrated in fewer and fewer hands as a result of private bank money creation. Thereafter, apart from a regular 3% annual increase (roughly matching population growth), only Congress would have the power to authorize changes in the US money supply – for public use -not private banks increasing only private bankers’ wealth.

          • DaveH

            If banks had to keep 100% reserves, what good would that money do them? Anything they lent out would decrease the percentage. And with that proposal we would have an instant increase in dollars of double our GDP. I guess that wouldn’t do much harm since the banks couldn’t lend anything out. They would just have to sit on that money waiting and hoping for it to hatch. Sorry, Dan, I don’t buy it.
            What I advocate for banks is just full disclosure to their customers. Those who wanted to be safe would put their money in the banks that kept all the money in reserve, but charged very big fees (the only way they could keep all the money in reserve). Those who were risk tolerant would put their money in the banks that lent some of the reserves out for profit, but charged lower fees to their customers.
            And there should be no money issued that isn’t backed by some physical collateral (such as gold or silver). In other words, we should have a Free Market in banking, and the consumer should bother himself to pay attention to the banks assets and policies.

            Please read this book, Dan:
            http://mises.org/books/Rothbard_What_Has_Government_Done.pdf

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        SMS:

        Check out:
        http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

        This is THE answer to the massively broken tax system in our country.

        • Dan az

          Flat tax works
          * Stronger incentives for productive behavior. Flat tax rates almost always mean a lower tax rate on work, saving, investment, risk-taking, and entrepreneurship.
          * Encouraging capital accumulation. As noted in the previous section, few if any flat tax systems live up to the Hall/Rabushka goal of eliminating all discriminatory taxes on income that is saved and invested. Yet most of the world’s flat tax systems have reduced the tax penalty on capital.
          * Evening out the tax burden. Some nations (like Slovakia, Estonia, and Hong Kong) have done a better job than others, but most every flat tax system includes a reduction in the special preferences that distort market decisions and cause economic inefficiency.

          The growing community of flat tax nations shows that class warfare objections can be overcome. To be sure, globalization is probably the big factor since politicians increasingly understand that punitive tax regimes cause jobs and investment to flow to nations with better tax law. This suggests that the flat tax will spread around the world.

          This is a pleasant scenario, but there are still significant hurdles. Most important, international bureaucracies are obstacles to tax reform, both because they often provide bad advice and because they specifically seek to thwart tax competition. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), for instance, has a Harmful Tax Practices project (originally, and unwisely, labeled the “Harmful Tax Competition” project) that seeks to hinder the flow of labor and capital from high-tax nations to low-tax jurisdictions. The agency recognizes the importance of the issue for advocates of more government: in a 1998 report, it observed that tax competition “may hamper the application of progressive tax rates and the achievement of redistributive goals.”

          • Dan az

            Just as in the Great Depression (renamed the Great [Credit] Contraction by Friedman), the government caused the current severe recession/depression by implementing the BIS Basel II regulations and is again applying “the wrong cure for the wrong disease.” The right cure is to abolish the Fed, prohibit fractional reserve banking and withdraw from the BIS/IMF/World Bank supra-government that initiated this economic crisis. The international banks behind these financial bodies have manipulated the financial system of the world to aggregate more and more wealth into their hands, concentrating vast economic power and hence political power under their control.

      • Mike in MI

        SmSgtZ -Wallstreet didn’t just TAKE it. It was given to them because the politicians had promised it to them as collateral, in case the bad contracts Obama and his bunch of Red nuts (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpey, Bull clinton and Hilarity, Bawnie Phwanque and his honey Phanquwin Wains at Fannie-May I? and Fweddie Macemocats, et al.) were requiring the banks to write all went bad. The banks knew the contracts would go under and demanded security of some sort. So, the Democrats pointed at the closest pile of money around and said, “There, if anything bad happens to those mortgages we’ll pay you and make you whole out of all those slush funds (Social Sec., Medicare, Medicaid, Pensions, Highways, DOT, ANYTHING) and whatever else we need to raid to make it up to you. Just give these poor people the ability to own a nice home and have a littl…. whatever…they want… as long as they vote Democratic.”

      • Matt Newell

        You say that Wall Street was the cause of this problem when it tanked it destroyed all the States, City and Town workers hard saved pension invested money. I ask you who do you think caused all the problems? If it were not for the politicians playing their games, this would not have happened.

        Next you say there was no Bush bail out for main street only wall street. No matter what you say about Bush, Obama has been much worse than he ever was (and that IS saying something).

        Next you say let’s reform the tax code first so all of us pay a fair share. I assume your thought is that the should rich pay more. I would say that it would be better if EVERYONE payed the same rate for taxes (the rich would pay more, but the poor would pay something) which would be much fairer than what the liberal and progressives have designed into the tax system now.

        Finally, you say all the TV and radio hosts you listen to (again I assume you mean conservatives) do not care about you. This is true of everyone. Each person only cares about himself (although the liberal lie is that they care for everyone). If you believe that lie, I have some seaside property in Death Valley that I will sell to you. Your statement that they are all in it for the money is also true, but so are you and me and everyone else.

      • Don Schneider

        You didn’t even answer one single point of the article, nor did you even try to justify your own.

    • Doug Rodrigues

      I think we should more accurately call the “public” worker’s Unions for what they are: “Government Employee’s Unions.” The politicians started this insanity by allowing Government Employees to Unionize. The politicians have to undo what they’ve done and to H### with what those Government Employees have to say about it! The State and the Country are running on IOU’s! As one of their “employers,” I’d happly say, “YOU’RE FIRED!” If this were a private company, the alternative would be to completely shut-down the Company and then re-open with a whole new crew of workers and start again from scratch.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        If that is what they have to do, Id be all for it. I applaud the effort the Wisconsin governor is making to balance his states budget, and attack the “pork” and trim it off. One set of people like that should not have such a benefit over another, and get a free ride at taxpayers expense. Its just not right. And if those people dont want those jobs, I know there is a line waiting to take them, and they should consider that in their options.

    • Dan az

      This just in.
      Dear Newsmax Reader:

      We’ve just won a huge victory in Wisconsin!

      The GOP Senate simply outsmarted Obama’s bloated public unions.

      In a historic vote last night, the Wisconsin Senate approved the most critical part of Governor Scott Walker’s budget repair bill.

      By eliminating collective bargaining over benefits, Obama’s bloated public employee unions no longer have absolute power to hold taxpayers hostage.

      No longer will Wisconsin’s liberal politicians award lavish pension and health benefit packages to their union cronies in exchange for a mother-load of campaign cash and votes.

      What happened?

      The Wisconsin Senate requires a quorum to vote on any bill that spends money. This is how the 14 AWOL senators shamefully managed to block a vote on Scott Walker’s budget-repair bill.

      So Republicans simply stripped the non-fiscal portion off of the bill. The Senate then voted on it as a stand-alone measure, one that doesn’t spend money!

      This is a huge victory not only for Wisconsin, but for all of America.

      Robert Reich, who served as President Clinton’s Labor Secretary, admits Wisconsin will reverberate nationwide.

      He says: “I wouldn’t be surprised if governors in New Jersey … and also in Indiana and other Midwestern states – where you have Republican governors, who believe they are in the ascendancy – take some courage from all of this.”

      Liberals Enraged

      No surprise, after disgracing the office they hold, the 14 AWOL senators now say they’ll return to Wisconsin from their Illinois hideout.

      And they’re vowing to escalate the fight to a new level.

      One of Obama’s allies is Michael Moore, a Hollywood-leftist filmmaker.

      He’s calling for a nationwide “student walk-out” on Friday to protest Wisconsin, and is demanding jail time for Scott Walker.

      A guest on MSNBC’s “Rachel Maddow Show,” an enraged Moore declared “The rich have committed these crimes and the people will demand your ass is in jail… we have a right to your money!”

      Clearly, Michael Moore has gone nuts.

      • usmadgirl

        Dan az,

        First of all, if Michael Moore is talking about any MINORS walking out of school, he should be charged with “contributing to the delinquency of minors”.

        AND, just who is he calling “the rich”? Uhh, isn’t that “the fat pot calling the kettle black”? And now he wants to sue the Weinsteins for “hiding money from him in the accounting for his dumb fraudulent movie, “Fahrenheit 9/11”; so, as mentioned in an article from Andrew Breitbart’s “Big Hollywood”, “Michael Moore wants to sue for more of what he wants to take away from us!” He’s just a big, fat, anti-capitalism, anti-American , full of crap, hypocritical windbag. He needs to move to Cuba since he thinks it’s so much better!

        These “anti-capitalism” Hollywood freaks make me absolutely PUKE. THEY have ALL made their MILLIONS in this CAPITALIST country yet they want to ridicule & destroy the very system that made them RICH. That just proves how freaking stupid they are. They couldn’t do anything other than act because they’re too stupid to do anything other than “pretend” to be something they aren’t!

      • meteorlady

        Moore is one of the rich…..

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Michael Moore is a big fat ugly jerk who is a know nothing socialist, who has millions of dollars, and I dont see him down at the homeless shelter helping the less fortunate, yet he calls for all of us to give our money to the people the democrats think we should give it to. Hypocrite. Big stinking hypocrite.

  • steve thackston

    [offensive word removed] You’re full of [offensive word removed]. teachers. really? Our economy was crashed by wall street bankers-none of whom have been prosecuted. Morons like you help grease the wheels on our ride from oligarchy to dictatorship. Hope the 15 grand you make a year writing this [offensive word removed] is work it for you…

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      ST___Whoa!__Must be a Teacher!?

      • Boyce Nelson

        I wish you had not said that, Angel. Teachers, per se, are not the problem. It is public unionism. I have been under this banner and I know that most derogatory remarks about public unionism is well-deserved, but it is not the individuals. many of them are in the union mainly by intimidation. That is why the unions hate secret ballots. They can be very mean and hateful to people who cross them. Suffice it to say I was not very well received in my union because I was against intimidation: one of their main weapons to keep the peons in line.

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Boyce… I know for a fact that there are unions that you do not have a choice about joining. I was forced to join one once and I didn’t want to. But, that’s the way unions have become. Greedy and power-hungry. Back in the day they were a good thing as far as getting child labor laws passed and improving working conditions. They have went too far and they are no longer a good thing. It is now time to get rid of them.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Boyce, please don’t refer to me as “Not In The Know”?!!_-My half sister was a Teacher 38 years!__I was in the Ladies Garment Workers Union!__My Husband, UAW and a Union Representative!__My Dad 35 years UAW!____I KNOW UNIONS, they are TOO powerful and all that power isn’t needed today, it’s and excuse to have someone else pay your way!__and BTW_My husband and I left the Unions behind, THERE IS ALWAYS A CHOICE, YA JUST HAVE TO CHOOSE ONE!!!

        • DaveH

          Boyce,
          Angel simply said that Steve must be a teacher. And I’ll bet she’s right.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I agree with your post. I know many teachers, and they do not want anything to do with the union, and having their money sucked out of them, and being told who to vote for. They have to stay in the closet, or they will be fired if they are found to have conservative values. It is absolutely true. That is why I am totally against unions, because they take away your individual freedoms, just like a communist government. In fact, if you look at the union structure, it is formed on the communist structure, where everybody has their money forcefully taken from them, and given to a few at the top, who decide what to do with it, who to support, and which peons under them to keep around or get rid of. And those are the facts. I know, I worked in these union socialists shops for years. They are no good for this country.

      • Bruce D.

        You are right Angel. You can blame the teachers union all you want but they are made up of all teachers and they collectively voted for tenure which has help to destroy education. To make a claim that teachers are not responsibly for the unions actions is totally absurd.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          All though your assertation is correct in theory, there are teachers out there, stuck in these teachers unions, that do not want to be a part of it, but if they reveal themselves, they will be out of a job. They do not like being forced to give these union thugs their money, and they do not like being told who to vote for, and worse yet, having their money that is forcefully taken for them, given by the millions to democratic politicians, against their wishes. But they cant speak up, or like I said, they will be railroaded out of town. So not all teachers are that way. I would say over half dont want the unions, but so many are hidden in the closet on this, they dont know how many feel like they do, and are afraid to raise their voices, as they know the union will not be fair with them, and will get rid of them. And thats a fact.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      steve… This article makes a lot of sense and explains the situation quite well. Exactly what is your issue?

      • Bruce D.

        Robin, Steve’s problem is that the article explains it too well. He would prefer that people do not have that clear an understanding. He wants it to be about Bush and Wall Street as a smoke screen for what is really going on between a corrupt teachers union and corrupt politicians.

    • meteorlady

      Steve – why are you here if you don’t like the articles he writes? We all provide comments based on our knowledge of something that is written or on our opinion of something that is written. You did neither.

    • Dale on the left coast

      Steve . . . Wall Street Bankes??? For selling worthless Derivitives all over the World. But, Steve, there’s more to the story. Where did those “Worthless Mortgages” come from? Who encouraged the creation of this stuff? Why it was Freddie/Fannie, Clinton and the Dimmicrap Congress . . . how about we jail them!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You got that right. Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelick, Barney Frank, and a few more should all be in jail, for a long long time for what they did. How they walked is a bunch of baloney. They are criminals, and should be treated as such. Then the people of Massachusetts re-elect Barney Frank. Goes to show you how messed up that state is. But I guess we all knew that when they kept electing that drunken murderer that served up there year after year.

  • s c

    Thanks, Mr. DiLorenzo. Here it is roughly 1:30 in the morning, and union suck-ups are already lining up to prove that they’ll defend anyone or anything. If Hitler was a teacher (especially a union teacher), guess who’d be defending the SOB?
    By the way, your next book (if it needs a title) should be Obama’s Curse.
    I got a quite a good laugh out of young Mr. Thackston’s rant. Must be something in the water.

  • http://! Angel Wannabe

    Good Article!__but it’s time to plate the Cheese, the Whine is already being poured!__Yeah, I know,”it’s All About The Children”_ Right?!!

    • Ruby

      Angel/s c: do either of you remember an article from late 2008/early 2009 that traced the ROOT of the housing market crash to the Community Reinvestment Act. I can’t remember a specific periodical or an online email piece (could have been personal liberty).

      Of course, any reasonable mind can come to that conclusion because it doesn’t make sense to give a 0 interest, $100+k loan to someone that doesn’t have the wherewithal to pay…even with 0 interest! That isn’t a fair practice, is it? Those greedy Wall Street bankers! How can they deny the poor the opportunity to have a piece of real estate and the American dream?! Ludicrous!

      • meteorlady

        Look back the the 1980′s and the Savings & Loan bailouts. Then check into the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. Add to that the fact that Clinton strengthened the Community Reinvestment Act and you had the perfect storm for the 1980′s only on a bigger scale.

      • DaveH

        Thomas Sowell has a great book on the actual causes of the Real Estate Bubble called “The Housing Boom and Bust”.
        Also there are many articles on Mises.org, Reason.org, and Cato.org which explain the causes of the Boom and Bust.
        Here’s just one:
        http://reason.org/news/show/the-housing-boom-and-bust

        • DaveH

          There were several contributors to the Housing collapse — The Federal Reserve, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Community Reinvestment Act, and bank coercion by community organizations such as ACORN.
          Almost all of the blame goes to Big Government, which the Liberals want to make even bigger.

  • http://! Angel Wannabe
  • Jack Gordon

    What a pack of lies. Not surprising since this crap is what Friedmanites have been serving up for decades.

    • Bobby Singh

      Yes, the Unions Thugs lies. Hi you Communist, go to Cuba

      • Vigilant

        Jack gordon never knew, or fails to admit, that it was the Friedman economic policies that gave this nation its longest sustained period of prosperity IN HISTORY!

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Jack… What is it you don’t believe? That unions are greedy? That government unions do not allow the nonunion taxpayer a say? That politicians cater to the unions? What is the lie you are talking about?

      • Bruce D.

        Jack is talking about his owns lies which he prefers you do not know about so he attacks the truth as his cover.

      • meteorlady

        Jack can’t or won’t answer because if he did he would have to face the truth and they don’t like that at all, not one little bit.

    • DaveH

      Enlighten us, Jack. Tell us which ones are lies, instead of just making unsupported blanket accusations.

    • JeffH

      Jack, here is a list of the Top All-Time Political Donors, 1989-2010
      Look for the union donors and especially the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees, National Education Assn, American Federation of Teachers and the SEIU.
      http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A
      You want to see how your union dues are being mis-spent and you have “ZERO” influence or say as to what your unions are being spent on.

      • meteorlady

        We are waiting Jack.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Its all true Jack, and like one famous Jack once said, “you cant handle the truth”.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Jack, is your last name Meoff?

  • TIME

    The TON’S of dirty little secrets of how these crazy contracts were made is now being exposed to the population of the US.

    By the way all of you have been in the dark about just how
    “corrupt” both Unions & Politicians have been in making these “CONTRACTS.”
    Now its time to FIX the problem or its only going to get even worse.

    Who has the BALLS to stand UP and tell the UNIONS, NO MORE.
    For sure its not Charlie the Warlock.
    He is the embodiment of whats wrong with our nation.

    • Bobby Singh

      The Union Thugs hate it when the taxpayers find out who is paying the bill for Union Thugs.

      • eddie47d

        ….or corporate Thugs or Hedge Fund Thugs who pay 15% tax while the rest of us pay 28%. It’s funny how we always know exactly how much union and non-union workers make and the exact tax they have to pay.Gov Walker does have a budget problem but hasn’t been honest on several fronts. You hype up the “dishonest” union man and want to lynch him. Yet find a million ways to protect those in the corporate world who scam the public and truly caused our economy to collaspe.(Yes,Wisconsin has corporates) There are only passing references by Personnel Liberty Desk about Corporate criminals yet you all send the bloodhounds out to get union members. If you truly want to right wrongs then try to be a bit more honest.

        • Vigilant

          eddie says, ‘…or corporate Thugs or Hedge Fund Thugs who pay 15% tax while the rest of us pay 28%.”

          eddie once again fails the math test! Forget the 15% or 28%. It wouldn’t matter if they paid a lower rate, sonny, the FACT remains that they pay 90+% of the tax revenues in this country!

          Math 101 dude, Math 101.

          • Eddie47d

            Nice twist as usual Vigilante. There is still a huge discrepancy and that 90% figure is irrelivant since you are lumping them in as one group not as individuals. They should be paying much more.

          • Vigilant

            Thank you eddie, for revealing your true socialist sentiments.

            I rest my case.

          • Vigilant

            And BTW, eddie, “nice twist?” If you have figures that contradict mine, show ‘em.

          • Brad

            Hey Vig,

            eddie47d ment to say 15% is paid in taxes from their dividends and they are also taxed at 28% from their payroll exemptions. So that tells me the rich or wealthy are paying 43% in taxes through dividends & payroll on a monthly basis. Eddie47d that’s your math 101.

        • TIME

          Edwardo,

          Again you blast into a space cadet suit. A guy who get’s a $2 Million dollar Bounus, pays out well over 50% of that money straight out of the box to the IRS.
          Then there’s State Income TAX, so you can get a clue that 50% to the IRS as well what ever level State Income Tax is charged?
          So in fact that $2 million dollar bonus may end up at $600K.

          I understand thats a lot of money to someone who works making $50K a year.
          {But the guy who makes a $2 Million dollar Bonus} also works 18 hour long days and is on call 365 days a year. As well in most cases paid out to a good school well over $200K for an education to get that job that he pays for in his or her own blood.

          And by the way Edwardo, I have said it before and will say it again, I work until September just to pay TAX’S, now please do explain to me how that works out that I pay only 15%/28% tax again?
          What bloody planet do you live on?

          You really need some class’s in how the world works.
          Most people’s JOBS depend on the companys stocks going up in value or holding value.
          Yes even the guy who just works that 40 hour week. If the company goes down, he looses his job.

          • Eddie47d

            Time bomb;Everyone who gets a bonus pays at least 50% in taxes even if they win the lottery and sometimes it’s much more.So once again no tears for the wealthy (or lottery winners). We all pay State taxes no matter how much you make so what’s your point? Once again Time bomb nobody works 18 hour day except under unusual circumstances. You love for you’re imagination to run wild…again.

          • TIME

            EdwardO,

            Dude really do live in La La Land. There are far more people who work 14 – 18 hour days than you can count.
            They just don’t work for the Government who dabbel at working for 8 hours, then shut down. Nor are they on Public aid, of whom just don’t work at all.

            I can fully understand that you would never be one who will make much of anything of yourself nor any real money as you have ZERO DRIVE.

            Nor can you even fathom what anyone who has drive will and can do to make it.
            Thats one of this NATION’S problems is that there are more people who think like you “who think your owed something” From those of us who do work or have made it after much struggle.

            No one owe’s you anything, as well you will never get rich quickly with Lotto or other bent plans like such.
            The one and only thing that will ever gain you large amounts of money is “Talent” and your abilitys to use that Talent to make it.
            Then comes the hard part “KEEPING IT.”

            As the blood sucking Vampires like you and the Government are the first ones with your bloody fangs out.

            Your post clearly show’s off YOUR little EVNY monster. You really do have a socialist mind set what a waste of TIME you are.

          • Eddie47d

            I’ll stand by what I said. Few people can actually work 18 hours day after day so you are still full of it and very arrogant to boot. I hate to tell you but that only leaves less than 6 hrs for sleep,taking care of personal matters and driving to work. You must really think we are dumb. Oh,yes wise azz I’ve worked 10-12 hours a day for 22 yrs and all 40 of my years were outside.You can take that to the bank and I’m not sure about you with all your bull.

          • libertytrain

            TIME – I agree there are many people, myself included, that have easily worked 14-18 hour days. I remember one stretch of well over a year of 6 days a week, 18 hour days. I did come to love my Sunday.

          • JC

            Eddie47d says:
            March 10, 2011 at 2:35 pm
            Time bomb;Everyone who gets a bonus pays at least 50% in taxes even if they win the lottery and sometimes it’s much more.So once again no tears for the wealthy (or lottery winners). We all pay State taxes no matter how much you make so what’s your point? Once again Time bomb nobody works 18 hour day except under unusual circumstances. You love for you’re imagination to run wild…again.
            ____________________________________________________________
            Good Ol Reliable eddie….miserable miserable miserable man.
            Who also wants everyone dragged down to his level.
            Nothing “communist” about that now is there?

        • Matt Newell

          Right now it is the union deals that are taking down the states and country. We fix that and proceed to get rid of corporate and agricultural welfare. At least they are across the table from the taxpayer (unlike the union/politician group).

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Im all for jailing dirty union thugs eddie, you got that right. And Im also for jailing dirty politicians, as are all of us conservatives. Like Ted Kennedy should have been jailed for murder years ago, for a long long time. Like Bill Clinton should have been jailed for sex crimes, along with selling top secret technology to China. He should have been hung for that. Like Barack Obama using our tax payer money to fund abortions overseas, and to pay for lawyers to defend terrorists caught trying to kill us. He should be jailed for treason and being a traitor for all he has said and done against this country. Yes, Im all for jailing dirty politicians.

    • JeffH

      TIME, well said. AFSCME and the NEA are in the top ten of political donors since 1989…the SEIU and American Federation of Teachers are #12 & 13 respectively. Their donor recipients are the Democrats. It’s time to step up, create a, and I hate to use this term, fair pay and benefit system for the public workers and eliminate the public unions abuse of taxpayer funds and their dues payers.
      http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A

      • Eddie47d

        Being biased again Jeff? That is nothing new from the swill master! Now listen closely for you must have bumped your head again and forgot what you learned yesterday. Union members work (remember that you old geezer).They pay dues to the union for business functions just like any organization. Are you comprehending yet or do we have to send you back to remedial school?? There are political action committees and union members DO NOT have to give political donations. Union members earn what they make and it is none of your business what they do with what they EARN. Apparently you don’t believe this is a free country and the working man can’t do with his money as he sees fit. You are becoming a hypocritical control freak on several issues and it doesn’t matter if those workers Earn taxpayers money. They are working for that money so it is theirs.So get over your union bashing lies.

        • JeffH

          eddie, are ignorant or just plain dumb? Not once have I denounced the “union worker” yet you keep chattering about it as if I had. Do you have any abilities that might help you to comprehend or even understand what people say without going off on some accusatorial rant?

          I’m going to try one more time, and I’ll simplify it so even you can understand!

          Public unions collect dues.

          Public union members pay these dues to the public unions.

          Public unions use tens of millions of dollars of public union members dues to lobby political favors for the public unions without public union members having any say and or choice as to where their public union dues are being “spent/contributed”.

          Politicians, in turn, deliver these favors back to the public unions in the form of contracts that guarantee high salaries and even higher benefits which are paid for with the taxpayers dollars, not the politicians dollars.

          This delivery system ensures that the politicians will always have the public union support and funds for their re-elections and the public unions will always have political support, political cloat and the public union members will always have the money to pay their public union dues to keep the status quo.

          Does this make it any easier for you?

          • JeffH

            cloat should have been clout…

          • Eddie47d

            You can actually lie with a straight face? Hypocrite,phony and yes you do attack unions so get your facts straight for a change.

          • JeffH

            Hey dummie, I bad mouth specific public unions that use their memberships dues to buy political favors…point out one comment where I have ever bad mouthed the rank and file union dues payer. You can’t because I haven’t! Truth from you, just once, would be an oddity.

            You can deny, deny, deny but it does not change what and who you are and how you, oh God forgive me, “think”!

          • JC

            Jeff, eddie will never look at just how corrupt unions really are.
            He’ll never face it honestly. It would be tantamount to admitting his entire existence has been a lie.

        • JeffH

          eddie, you have the nerve to call someone a hypoctit and then say:
          “Apparently you don’t believe this is a free country and the working man can’t do with his money as he sees fit. You are becoming a hypocritical control freak on several issues and it doesn’t matter if those workers Earn taxpayers money. They are working for that money so it is theirs”

          You constantly rail corporations and CEO’s that they don’t deserve to make their money…you are all for relieving them of and limiting their ability to make money and you talk about freedom and hypocrisy?

          I hope, for their sake, that you don’t spew this garbage in front of family and friends. Hopefully, at best, they only laugh at you behind your back.

          • Eddie47d

            Union members earn their paychecks by hard work. Hedge Fund Managers earn $85,000 in 10 minutes each day and only pay 15% on the money they earn. I will be happy to tell my family members what I know. The same goes for the Arthur Anderson folks and Lehman Brothers and you know the rest. It’s funny how those companies sabotaged our economy through financial schemes and you pray to them like a drunk hanging onto a porcelain toilet. I’m proud of my job and the work I did and my 40 years in the union and I will keep calling you a liar. You are an ignorant charlatan who caters to right wing propaganda.

          • JeffH

            eddie, your problem is that you know nothing and I’m quite sure your family and friends are more than wise to that. You can call me a liar all day long but you just can’t prove it so it really doesn’t matter anyway. Your problem is that you never prove anything you say to anybody around here. You talk the talk but you can’t walk the walk. You even have a tough time getting your liberal buddies to agree with you. Hell, they’re probably laughing as loud as anybody else or just shaking their heads thinking…what a simple minded fool you are. And that’s the bottom line because I said so!

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Ever worked in a union eddie? Or do you just blindly back them like you do your democrat politicians? I have eddie, with 3 of them, over 11 years of my life. They are a joke. Most the members could care less if they give their employee an honest days work. But they insist on recieving an honest days pay from them. They cost the company thousands of dollars, and say “its not my job”, when they had the power in them to stop the line and save the loss. But they didnt, because it wasnt their job. And therein lies the problem.

  • Charles

    Heartbroken. We might better be thankful for the things we have, or we could very well loose it all. Sorry, so little trust in the left and Main Stream Media. May all of our eyes be opened.

  • barb

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/02/unions_arent_to_blame_for_wisc.html

    Unions aren’t to blame for Wisconsin’s budget
    By Ezra Klein

    Let’s be clear: Whatever fiscal problems Wisconsin is — or is not — facing at the moment, they’re not caused by labor unions. That’s also true for New Jersey, for Ohio and for the other states. There was no sharp rise in collective bargaining in 2006 and 2007, no major reforms of the country’s labor laws, no dramatic change in how unions organize. And yet, state budgets collapsed. Revenues plummeted. Taxes had to go up, and spending had to go down, all across the country.

    Blame the banks. Blame global capital flows. Blame lax regulation of Wall Street. Blame home buyers, or home sellers. But don’t blame the unions. Not for this recession.

    “The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the
    oppressed.” –Steve Biko

    • Bobby Singh

      When the Unions thugs (Bus Driver) in Wisconsin make more than $150,000 per year then there is a problem. THe union members needs to get educated that this money comes from taxpayers.

      • Hot Dog

        In my county,Arlington County, Virginia, we typically have 3 of the highest rated high schools in the nation,(our 5 hs. take turns with this some how). Anything the teachers want they get. The statement- the highest paid are the worst, is a bald faced lie. AND if some bus driver earns $150K, he probably did it like an Ironworker would, way to much overtime. Before unions it was not overtime, everyone worked it, for no extra money. Like life w. out unions? Read Charles Dickens.

      • Boyce Nelson

        You are so right, Bobby! Public unions are to blame. No matter how Barb tries to slither away from the blame. Unionists are so good at slithering. See, they slither from under rocks. Figures posted in WI show that without a doubt union members earn much more than regular workers. And when they strike they are striking us, don’t forget that. We are their employers even though they make much more than we do.

        • Bruce D.

          I agree Boyce. This is about a corrupt teachers union. The recession only brings it to the forefront. Even if the money was their to pay them it is still a corrupt system where union dues are used to bribe politicians. Their retirement pay is a lot more than many people make in wages. But the worst thing is tenure. That turned them into communists.

      • Eddie47d

        Singh; More anti-union spin to stoke your egos. Right? The basic pay for a bus driver in Wisconsin is $50 thousand.Teachers is $60 thousand and with benefits is $30 thousand more. How about telling us what your salaries are or were if you are retired. (at today’s wage level). Are those salaries outrageous in comparison with anyone else or yourself? That 40% figure used by the author sounds really bogus too. Isn’t it funny how everyone say “work hard and you will achieve the American dream”.Yet a bus driver who works overtime and 80 hours a week is demonized. You damn hypocrites,either that or there never was an American dream to begin with. You like to say it’s your tax money but it is his labor that made him that money. If you work and earn it isn’t it yours? Do you really have the right to take away a man’s labor. Apparently so in your new America. If you think the city or state should have hired another bus driver to work that other 40 hours to avoid that overtime then I’m in agreement. But don’t blame the driver who had to do the work.

        • JeffH

          eddie, you ain’t the sharpest tack in the box are you? I guess it’s clear the spin stops with Eddie47d. He even knows the “bus driver” was forced to work the overtime. No special deals? He could have said no, but instead was “forced” to work the overtime.

          Madison bus driver John E.Nelson earned $159,258 in 2009, including $109,892 in overtime and other pay thanks to a Teamsters union contract that lets the most senior drivers who have the highest base salaries get first crack at overtime.
          http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt_and_politics/article_24af32d4-13f4-11df-86b2-001cc4c002e0.html

          • Eddie47d

            Now you want to be the lie master too. How many titles do you want you big jerk? I never used the word “forced” as you are implying. Then you go on and repeat pretty much what I already stated about the bus drivers salary. You are so anti-worker it’s almost unbelievable.You have any real dignity in you? How did you get ahead in life Jeff or didn’t you achieve anything except to be a slick talker? You are without a doubt the crap on the bottom of my shoe and all the other workers you sh*t on!!

          • JeffH

            eddie, you’re right, you didn’t say “forced” did you. You don’t need to get all bent out of shape over it…like the use of your potty mouth in a fit of rage. Of course, if that’s all you can find wrong with my comment, then I’ll acknowledge that you must agree with the rest of my comment. What I won’t do is stoop to your foul mouthed low level I can’t defend myself potty language.
            I’ll wait patiently while you cool down…it is said that cooler heads will prevail…leaves you out!

          • JeffH

            Now see eddie, I admitted I was in error…you might try the same…the truth shall set you free…I feel so much “freer” now.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      I’m not a fan of Unions because I know for FACXT that Unions are an absolute waste of money.

      However..I agree that these problems are as you state..banks-wall street & Govt Collusion…

    • Raggs

      Oh come on!!!! I will tell you who I blame… BHO!

    • Ted Crawford

      The primary forces at work here Barb, are the unfunded libilities of the retirement and benifit packages. Much like the ballon payments once so popular with homeloans, these payments are now, or soon will be, payable. There is not now nor will there be in the near future the funds available to satisfy these demands!

    • DaveH

      For sure, Barb, it isn’t the Unions who are responsible. It is the voters, who have apathetically ignored Big Government growth while they were working hard to make a living and struggling for comfort. While they had their heads buried in the sand, hoping for the best, the Unions and Government were raiding the piggy bank. Without voter apathy, the Unions and their Government cronys could not have accomplished their dirty deeds.

    • meteorlady

      We aren’t blaming the unions for the shape we are in right now. We are blaming them for contributing to the state budget deficits. The wages that are being paid in Wisconsin are out of sync with the rest of the state. The AVERAGE wage earner in Wisconsin makes about $37/38,000 per year. The AVERAGE wage of a teacher with benefits is around $75,000 per school year (that’s 185 days). The highest paid bus drive in one city in Wisconsin gets about $115,000 per year. A Bus DRIVER! That’s over three times what the average wage is for Wisconsin.

      I find it difficult to believe that unions collect high dues and then give BILLIONS to politicians for their election and re-election campaigns and don’t expect to get something in return. Same as corporations.

      The problem is big government – federal government. They have mandated all these laws and regulations on states and the states are now unable to sustain them. They have to cut somewhere and it’s seems fair that the people that have been riding the gravy train for a long time, now pitch in and help out.

    • Vigilant

      barb,

      Biko lies by telling half-truths: “There was no sharp rise in collective bargaining in 2006 and 2007, no major reforms of the country’s labor laws, no dramatic change in how unions organize. And yet, state budgets collapsed. Revenues plummeted. Taxes had to go up, and spending had to go down, all across the country.”

      Another proagandist of the worst sort. And that’s what we expect from the Washington Post.

      The truth: it didn’t matter a fig whether union procedures changed one iota. The problem in state budgets is the tremendous unfunded liabilities, largely caused by cushy union pensions and benefits that were negotiated years ago as tradeoffs for current compensation. They are now coming due, and the states simply cannot afford them.

      Even in my own locality, we’re told that 75% of the school budgets are essentially untouchable because they represent teacher pay, pensions and health benefits negotiated in the past. Some great situation, huh?

      The can was kicked down the road for decades by politicians and, to mix metaphors, the cows have now come home.

      So barb, don’t take a leftist “journalist’s” word for it. Just because it’s in print doesn’t make it gospel truth. Sometimes we need to use our noggin and think.

      • Vigilant

        Ezra Klein

        ardon me, I meant Ezra Klein, not Biko.

      • ValDM

        Here’s what I know about the whole situation : I have my property tax statement in hand. My state is union controlled. Now, my property value has declined, while my property taxes went UP by about 10%. Looking at the pie-chart about how my taxes are distributed, I take offense that 34.3% goes to schools and 17.1% goes to the state; this on top of the almost 10% sales tax I pay on anything I buy excepting food and prescriptions. Yet, everyone wants to say the unions aren’t out of control???? Get rid of ‘em. I’m being sucked dry.

        • Vigilant

          Agree 100%. Leftists use the term “union busting” as if it’s a dirty word. Unions once had a function in this country, they are now the leeches destroying our way of life.

  • Macawma

    Excellent article. Just one thing…I don’t believe MOST American’s eyes are being opened to this, I think MOST American’s are still in LaLa Land, watching main stream media news, worried more about what the British Bride will be wearing or Lindsay Lohan’s latest debacle. There are a few of us that are awakened (sickened ) to what is happening, but I still believe the vast majority believe the crap the unions spew out.

    • DaveH

      For the true scoop, watch Fox Business Network, especially Judge Napolitano, John Stossel, and Neil Cavuto.

    • lkar

      I beleive most people get their news from their circle of influence. They are more content to watch re-runs of 2 and a half men than check facts about an issue. In fact, if people do try to check the “news” they usually do not get past the headlines or first paragraph.
      For example the Reuters headline “Wisconsin Senate passes public-sector

      • lkar

        The headline is “Wisconsin Senate passes public-sector union ban”. That is misleading and an outright lie. But most people will not read past this headline.

  • http://personalliberty.com frank

    wow S. Thackston sounds like a deranged angered person.Must be a liberal democrat great UNION teacher!!!!!.LOL LMAO.

  • Hopedreams

    Maybe, some of the pension benefits for government workers could be reduced. However, NEVER remove collective bargaining from workers!! NEVER EVER DO SO!!! How would Scott Walker and his GOP folk like to be suddenly laid-off? Hey, they were elected to jobs, just like other government workers!! Lest he forgets,Walker too is a Government worker. So, what he has done is dictatorial, and I hope he gets shellacked in the next election cycle. Power often goes to people’s heads, and they do heinous things. He is no exception. In fact, while government leaders are laying off workers all over the place, they too should be laid-off. Why not!!?? We are cutting costs, right??!! So, it doesn’t matter that they were elected to jobs, just like the rest of us…they too should feel the brunt. Some people are so egocentric, that the only way they temper their power craze, is when they FEEL what they do to others. Let’s start laying off our government worker POLITICIANS, to save money too. That way they will SOBER-UP, and start being reasonable to the rest of us, who put them in those jobs in the first place.

    • Bobby Singh

      Cutting Collective bargaining for Union Thugs in Public Sector is cutting gravy train for Democrats who take money fron Union thugs and get elected and pay back in terms of higher salaries and benefits for unproductive employess. If these union thugs do not like it than let them find a job outside in private sector and they can negotiate for $150,000 a year for a bus drivcer job like in Wisconsin

      • JC

        Damned Straight. But politicians from both sides of the aisle are involved.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      hopedreams…. You are right! Let’s start with the men and women in Wisconsin that left the state and refused to do their jobs. You may have something here!

      • Hopedreams

        No, start with Scott walker, then the one’s who fled, then our House of Representatives in Washington, and move on from there. Great!

        • Bruce D.

          Walker represents the taxpayer and had the guts to do something that should have been done a long time ago. You represent a corrupt teachers union.

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          hopedreams… Why would you want to see Gov. Walker ousted? He is doing his job!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Robin, walker would be OK with the Unions, had he sided with them!?_
            But now that the shoe is on the other foot, well, you finish the story…..:)

        • meteorlady

          Walker is doing the job he was elected to do. Everyone seems to be forgetting that.

          Here’s what I found —

          Heard about unrest in Wisconsin ???? This is what it is
          all about…..

          For anyone who thinks teachers are underpaid this is the official excel DPI database of teachers wages by school district. Look up your own district !!!

          The current budget repair bill would have them paying about 5.8% towards their own retirement….right now, we the taxpayer, pays 100% of their generous retirement, and most of us pay 100% of our own retirement too.

          AVERAGE WAGE AND BENEFITS (remember this is for about 9 months of work)

          TEACHERS:

          Milwaukee $86,297
          Elmbrook $91,065
          Germantown $83,818
          Hartland Arrwhd $90,285 (highest teacher was $122,952-lowest was $64,942)
          Men Falls $81,099
          West Bend $82,153
          Waukesha $92,902
          Sussex $82,956
          Mequon $95,297
          Kettle Mor $87,676
          Muskego $91,341

          STAFF:

          Arrowhead – Bus Mng – Kopecky – $169,525
          Arrowhead – Principal – Wieczorek – $152,519
          Grmtwn – Asst Princ – Dave Towers – $123,222
          Elmbrk – Burliegh Elemetary – Principal Zahn- $142,315 (for a primary school!!)
          Madison – Asst Principal – McGrath – $127,835

          UNIVERSITY of WISCONSIN STAFF (2009) (salary alone):

          Michael Knetter – Prof of Bus – $327,828
          Carolyn Martin -Chancellor Mad- $437,000
          Hector Deluca – Prof of Nutritional Science – $254,877 (really??)

          (source:Madison.com -as the UW removed salaries from being posted online in 2007- why if they are so low?)

          How about some other “public servant job” ??? What do they make?

          Madison Garbage men (2009) (salary only):

          * Garbageman, Mr. Nelson earned $159,258 in 2009, including $109,892 in overtime and other pay.
          * Garbageman, Greg Tatman, who earned $125,598
          * 7 Madison garbage men made over $100,000
          * 30 Madison garbage men made over $70,000

          MILWAUKEE CITY BUS DRIVERS (salary only):

          136 Drivers made more than $70,000
          54 Drivers made more than $80,000
          18 Drivers made more than $90,000
          8 Drivers made more than $100,000
          Top Driver made $117,000 (Source WTMJ)

          If you add some of this up they make more than the governor of the state makes for a full years work.

          Justify that for me please.

          • JR

            Gawd people on here are so whiny and greedy..wah wah wah they say I only make 30k 9 a pittance in today’s market…an amount I would not even get out of bed for) a year… so nobody else should make more then I…..
            You all forget what you are preaching on other days. THIS is the greatest country in the world, everyone who wants to, can archive anything he wants to, unless he is too lazy. The same people on here that rip the poor and tell em to get of they’re lazy butt now are on the crying bandwagon and telling everyone how unfair they are treated.
            So, what kept you from getting an education and making good money as a engineer, teacher, principal, public employee, Union boss, or gasp work hard and become rich, or any other person you are so envious about……nothing but your own laziness. I don’t like some of the stuff that goes on on the political scene but gawd, the whining and envy on this blog some days wants to make me puke.

          • Hopedreams

            Meteorlady:- Where the heck are you getting your teacher salary figures from? You must have the zero’s in the wrong places!! If I knew about this, being a college/university teacher myself, I would have banged on the doors of those universities even to get a garbage collectors job!! My teacher’s salaries have been MISERABLE!!! My take home annual pay, averaged between $15,000 through $20,000 for all of 10 years!!!! REALLY!!! So, how comes? I have PhD’s and took this type of thing for so long!! WOW!!! I need to wake up and demand my dues too. And, guess what, I have always been nominated and awarded Teaching Excellence, EVERY TIME. Is that because I was being “messed around”?

          • momplayer

            It’s really not even 9 mos. they are required to have a school year of 187 days.If you take the 9 mos and deduct all the holidays and teacher planning.It comes out to 187. My granddaughter goes to school full time here 7:00 am to 12:45 pm so her teachers work 6 hour days.

          • pattty

            HopeDreams: Try this site for school administrators in just 1 district. http://www.dpi.state.wi.us/lbstat/pdf/staff_appleton_2009_2010_staff_worksheet.pdf
            http://www.dpi.state.wi.us/lbstat/pdf/staff_appleton_2008_2009_staff_worksheet.pdf
            And yet another: http://php.app.com/fed_employees10/search.php

            See what most gov’t. employees have been making.

          • meteorlady

            You will notice that some of them have names. The actual base salaries are about $40,000 to $70,000. the actual add on benefits are around $25,000 to $32,000 per year. These are AVERAGE. These were published in the paper and I am assuming they are correct. They also had interviews from some of the teachers and bus drivers who said exactly what they made. I have to assume that they didn’t lie about that either.

            Fact is my nephew was a ferry boat worker in Washington State and he made $85000 per year for just pointing out what line a car should drive to when boarding the ferry. He also got health care and retirement benefits. They are union.

    • Hot Dog

      Politicians should pay the state for their jobs as they get most of their income from kickbacks. NO SALARY.

      • meteorlady

        Great idea! Nancy Pelosi went into politics with $120,000 and she’s now worth double digit millions. How does that happen with a salary of around $180,000 per year?

        • Patty

          She passes laws so that her husbands stock will go up dramatically by exempting them from the minimum wage laws.
          Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi’s home House District includes San Francisco.
          Star-Kist Tuna’s headquarters are in San Francisco, Pelosi’s home district.
          Star-Kist is owned by Del Monte Foods and is a major contributor to Pelosi.
          Star-Kist is the major employer in American Samoa employing 75% of the Samoan workforce.
          Paul Pelosi, Nancy’s husband, owns $17 million dollars of Star-Kist stock.
          In January, 2007 when the minimum wage was increased from $5.15 to $7.25, Pelosi had American Samoa exempted from the increase so Del Monte would not have to pay the higher wage. This would make Del Monte products less expensive than their competition’s.
          Last week when the huge bailout bill was passed, Pelosi added an earmark to the final bill adding $33 million dollars for an “economic development credit in American Samoa”.
          Pelosi has called the Bush Administration “corrupt”.
          She should know. http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_nancy_pelosi_get_wage_breaks_and.html
          GO AHEAD LIBERALS, TELL ME ALL ABOUT CORPORATE WELFARE AND WHO BENEFITS.

          • JeffH

            Patty, as Emeril would say…BAM!

      • momplayer

        The politicians should only make his or her states average wage. This would make them try to entice better businesses,better jobs and better wages as long as their making the money they are theres no reason to try and make things better in their own state.

    • Ted Crawford

      If progressives are so much in support of public sector unions please explain why FRD argued against them, Jimmey Carter forbed them and even Obama hasn’t spoken out for them at the Federal level!

      • Vigilant

        You’re absolutely right, Ted. If the Congress now tried to pass a law reinstating collective bargaining privileges to federal workers, beyond their current ones (personnel issues only), you’d see a collective scream from the taxpayers that would drown out the raucous braying of the thugs in Wisconsin.

        Obama knows he’s a hypocrite and so do we, but what’s new?

      • Ellen

        Obama has been pushing his ‘card check’ legislation for well over a year. Pelosi’s House of Reps passed it last year, but it didn’t get passed in the Senate. This would over-ride all the states’ ‘right to work’ laws. So, yes, Obama has been pushing this at the federal level.

        • Vigilant

          Ellen, I’m talking about federal workers. They are already unionized, so card check doesn’t apply to them.

    • DaveH

      How is Scott Walker’s execution of the voters’ wishes Dictatorial, Hopedreams?
      And why should we not eliminate coercion as executed by gangs of Union Thugs? Every dollar they extort from Government is a dollar out of the rest of our pockets. It’s time the citizens quit allowing those Union Thugs to ride on our shoulders.

  • http://Safari John Flath

    Hey Bob,
    You speak like a true NEO-CON. Now we know who’s side your on.
    Do you remember when the coal miner got killed in an accident? The company came over to the families home the very next day and threw the Mother and children into the street.
    I believe all must give some to help out their state. You said NOTHING about the governor and legislature giving up some of their money and benefits. If there is no way for workers to solve their problems, than this nation will run red with blood in the streets. That is what Ex Presidents have said. they will form mafia’s who will create a bloodbath in this country. that is what happened before unions.
    It was called SLAVERY AND TORTURE OF THEIR EMPLOYEES. The unions keep the wages and health benefits up there for non-union workers too, as the other companies have to compete to keep good workers.
    Lastly, My wife worked in a hospital in NJ for many years. They cancelled the pension and guess what happened two months latter?
    The executives took a 52% pay raise and a hugh bonus, just like wall st did. Beware, Ron Paul and his son are ILLUMINATI.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Get over it John, Life Sucks then ya die! My Dad worked in a Plant 35 years(UAW) & retired_ 16 years later when he needed the bennies, he was stripped of everything but a meager pension!!!_-Deal with it like the rest of us!

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        AND BTW, Ats pretty funny about Ron and Rand Paul, being a part of the Illuminati, get some facts Son!!!

    • Ted Crawford

      When you attempt to compare public sector unions to private sector unions your comparison has no value. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges!

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        TC, Unions are Unions, too powerful & corrupt was my point!_-You can lose out on either one!

      • JC

        Ok, fair enough.
        Public unions are an entrenched, lazy, work to rule cancer on a free society and cost more than they are worth.
        Private sector unions are corrupt political machines that require force to operate and take more than they are worth.

    • DaveH

      John said “The unions keep the wages and health benefits up there for non-union workers too, as the other companies have to compete to keep good workers.”
      And where does that money come from, John, Heaven? The truth is that when Unionists extort their higher wages, the companies they work for, in this case Government, must seek revenues to make those payrolls.
      In the private sector, the companies must raise their product prices (if they can), or lay off some workers, or lose money in which case they go out of business causing all workers to lose their jobs, or move overseas, etc.
      In the public sector, the Government bodies must seek higher taxes from the rest of us, thus diminishing our lifestyles.
      There is no Free Lunch. Whatever Unionists gain, in one way or the other, the rest of us have to pay for.

    • DaveH

      Ron Paul and his Son want Free Markets, where people can contract voluntarily to purchase the products of their choice, to work for whom they choose for the pay rate of their choice, or to instead start their own companies free of Government Meddling and Coercion. If that is Illuminati, then I want to be illuminated.
      Unionists want to take those choices away, from their own members, as well as from the pack-mule citizens whom they hold in contempt.

    • JeffH

      John Flath is just another low budget version of Am Lib, Flash, Jov, and the other hacks who’ve made short appearences on conservative web sites.

      • JC

        And people call ME a Tin Hatter…hahahaha (snork) hahahaha
        Ron Paul is illuminatti? Yeah right…and Hitler was (in secret) an Orthodox Jew.

        • JeffH

          …does that mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

          • JC

            Of course it does. He’s the son of King Kameamea and Amelia Earhart.
            And we have a certificate of live birth to prove it too! LOL =D

    • Vigilant

      “If there is no way for workers to solve their problems, than [sic] this nation will run red with blood in the streets.”

      A sentence right out of Karl Marx and Frederick Engels.

      “Workers of the world, unite!”

      John, you’re pitiful.

    • Doug Rodrigues

      The problem now is that Unions refuse to budge one inch toward anything that makes financial sense for the State. The State and the entire Country is broke. Do you not understand the meaning of the word Broke? People are out of work and finding it almost impossible to get a job. I’ve been applying for work that pays 1/3 third of what I used to make just to get ANY job. The Union people have got it made but they still make their demands? Is it any wonder why the general public has developed animosity toward the Union people?

  • Bitter Libertarian

    Restructure-dissolve all Public Employee positions with Private Employees.
    All Budgets over 10K require a Vote of approval by the tax payers.
    Allot of work? yes NOT doing this had led us to our current demise.

    NOTE: I recall many years ago that there were discussions/complaints that Goverments were having a difficult time finding & keeping “good employees” because of the Govt low pay and low benifits. I dont remember exactly when this was but I know there was a nation wide effort to correct this lop-sided wage/benifit problem by increasing wages & benefits.

    Does anyone else remember this?

    • Bruce D.

      Yes I remember it. Teachers pay went up but test scores stayed the same over the last ten years and the test scores were not good to begin with for 70% of the kids. Mostly the problem is about firing bad teachers. If a teacher cannot teach a kid to read and write for $50,000 a year giving them $55,000 is not going to help much.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        I agree 100% Bruce, its just ironic that the solution back then wasnt to privatise the whole system and let workers compete in a free market where their pay would match their skills. There has to be a barrier between the Unions & the tax payer and the private sector allows this barrier to ensure that Union & non union employees compete fairly!
        A school that has no union vs a school that has a union competes for enrollment through prices & educational track records & results. May The better school win! It could be a union school, but let the teachers & administrators efforts decide that!!
        Not some bogged down inefficient system that forces tax payers to pay more for less education!

      • meteorlady

        For the first 8 years of my school life I attended a private school that my parent scraped to pay for. My Dad worked two jobs to do this for my brother and I. Our teachers were Nuns and they were not paid. They taught us well and applied discipline when needed. It was tough and a lot of was expected of us. If we got in trouble in school, we didn’t tell when we got home because we would get in trouble there too. Our class sizes were between 35 and 45 students and most all of us excelled because we were expected to.

        When I started 9th grade in public school I was skipped to the 10th grade because I was so far ahead of the 9th grade classes. That’s without unions and without salaries and a huge class size.

        What they are doing in Wisconsin and trying to stop collective bargaining for BENEFITS, NOT WAGES. The benefits are out of control and I would think that they state is unable to fund them any longer. So, even if the Unions win, the teachers loose because the state will eventually not be able to continue funding for all this.

        I agree that teachers are the single most important people in our lives today. But, I also think that when you have a bad teacher (I had a few in high school and college) they need to be gotten rid of. I also think that parents need to step up and help out at schools and teach their children respect for education and learning.

        • Carlucci

          Everyone I know who attended Catholic schools are very sharp people.
          That’s because you were expected to put your nose to the grindstone and LEARN. Public schools cannot ever begin to compete, because learning isn’t part of the curriculum.

          • meteorlady

            Thanks for the compliment – however, I think I more “survived” Catholic school. The Nuns can be brutal with a yardstick. But…. I did learn and it was not all that bad, mostly I’m thankful I got that education when I did.

          • Bitter Libertarian

            I too attended Private catholic school. Not a practicing catholic now as I started studying the Bible and have issue with most religions as a result. Thats another story…
            Private education holds the parents responsible as well AND makes them have a vested interest every time they write that tuition check! It also holds the school accountable for what they are providing. I can honestly say that every teacher knew their stuff, was positive about it, and could teach the subject matter as a Professional. I can tell you that the class rooms werent as pretty as the Public schools, and we didnt have AC!
            When I graduated and Joined the Navy, my scores were very high, and my English scores wer at College level..not bragging just stating evidence that Children have to be pushed to Learn and Public schools are not within their capacity to do this.

        • Bruce D.

          I went to a Catholic school also. They did not use yard sticks but made you form a fist and rapped your knuckles with a small ruler. Nuns are individuals like everyone else. Some had a lot of love in their heart and some didn’t. I only went for three years as our family moved out of the area. We has three grades in one classroom and we got a good education, no doubt about it.

          • Carlucci

            As a child, my late husband attended Catholic school. He was too afraid of the nuns to ask for a bathroom break, and walked all the way home one day at lunch time to use the bathroom. His mom got so mad at those nuns, she took him back to school and told them all in no uncertain terms that her son was to be excused for a bathroom break any time he needed it, or they would have to deal with her. Worked like a charm, but he was still scared of the nuns. Everyone I know who went to Catholic school were scared of them.

  • valricoslash

    Once again an excellent author has put into words what I have been saying for several years. The more money you dump into public education the worse the outcome. We are raising a generation of lazy illiterates, which is why technolgy companies go overseas for their employees. Teacher unions are always crying that there is never enough money. Pay me more and the students will learn more is the mantra that spews from teacher unions around the country. Unfortunately, an incompetent teacher is still incompetent no matter how much you pay him or her. Also teachers work on the order of only 1450 hours annually compared to 2080 for a normal 40 hour work week. so why should they get the same pay as a professional who works more hours? If you look at the teacher hourly rate equivalent, you may be suprised to find taht some are making $30-60/hour. Not bad, in my book, especially when you get off tow weeks for CHRISTMAS, a week for spring break, and nearly 3 months for the summer. So they need to stop their whining.

    And the comment about moving incompetent teachers into administrative jobs is also right on target. As the saying goes: “Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach.” I add, “Those that can’t teach become administrators. And those that can’t adminsitrate run for the School Board.” The public school system is ripe with incest. Often school board members have come up throgh the ranks of the very system they are governing. Personally, I think it should be illegal for someone from the profession to sit on the school board. I also think that school systems would be much better off if managed/adminstered by non-teaching professionals who can divorce themselves from the politics of the profession and make critical decisions in a businesslike manner.

    As for the other public employee unions, the article says it all. They are a drain on the taxpayers who are responsible for paying their salaries and benefits. It is time that they be put on a 401K system like the rest of us. In fact, it is time that we all form the National Taxpayers Union of America and start making some demands of our own from those that we elect to guard the public trust. Politicians have a fiduciary responsibility to the taxpayers, not the unions.

    • http://n.cates@cox.net Norman F.

      Val, I have had many arguments about teachers sitting on the School Board. It is an absolute conflict of interest! The Board regulates some of the duties and salaries; the teacher board member votes for them; then, when defeated goes back to the school and receives the benefit of their vote. Who else gets a deal like that?

  • Warrior

    Good job Gov Walker. As a lifelong democrat I can even see the destruction this corrupt patronage system is causing. Time for a change, my party has been co-opted by communists.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      When Communism collapsed…the rats that left that sinking ship jumped on the USS Democrat party.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        BL, My Grandparents were Democrats, if they came back from the dead, they’d NOW be considered Conservatives.

        • Bitter Libertarian

          Dont misunderstand me, not all democrats even understand that their party is owned by the Rothchilds & their agents. My Dad was a democrat for his whole life, only now is he an independent.
          The republican Party is owned by the Rockafellars. Both Global Eliteist who could care less about you & me.

          • Dale on the left coast

            Owned by the Rockefellers??? You mean that Dimmicrap Senator???
            Didn’t Wall Stret back Obummer 4 to 1? The Repubs biggest problem is the RINO’s and the Elitists that think they are in control, they need to go.

          • DaveH

            Both major parties have anti-Freedom platforms. The Democrats want to spend our money as if it were their own, and the Republicans want to control our bodily and property choices to “protect us from ourselves”. We need to get back to the kind of Freedom that our Founders advocated — the Freedom to Succeed by our own choices, and the Freedom to fail by our own choices.
            Government protection is an illusion promoted by Government leaders to naive citizens. In fact, their protection is much more expensive than any of us would voluntarily pay if we had the Freedom to choose.
            Does anybody really think that if we don’t care enough about ourselves to do take care of ourselves, that anybody else (read Government official) is going to make that effort for us?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            I hear that BL, Some of the Rino Repubs are just a bit slower at the destruction of the US, than the Dems.

          • Vigilant

            DaveH,

            That was so eloquently stated, you guys may change me from a conservative to a libertarian yet! (:-)

          • DaveH

            I think you already are, Vigilant, and just don’t know it yet, lol. Thank you, by the way.
            Here is a test you can take to find out:
            http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz

          • JeffH

            I took the the “test” and was one mark to the right of being 100% Libertarian.

          • Vigilant

            I took the teat some months ago, and retook it to see if my views have been consistent. I hit in exactly the same spot: the line separating libertarian and conservative.

          • Vigilant

            LOL! Make that “test” not “teat” (an honest error).

            It’s been awhile since I took the teat.

          • JeffH

            Vigilant, then you must not be a liberal! LOL! (government “teat”)

  • Pilgrim

    Extremely well written. Lucid, coherent, concise.

  • http://www.piedmontwebmasterservices.com Dan

    Every one can blame wall street, bankers, unions and politicians. They are all guilty but who is the most guilty is the politicians who changed our economy to a fiat economy. Every fiat economy in the world has ended up failing. The government is mearly attempting to prop it up for a few more years so they can get out of office and not take the blame. That has been going on since WWII.

    • meteorlady

      I hate to say it but Madoff gave an interview recently and stated that this is the biggest ponzi scheme yet. He’s right I think.

  • ebusch

    Good job, Mr. DiLorenzo! The Brothers Koch are getting their money’s worth out of this article. It really takes a mastermind to get folks to blame public employees rather than bankers, Wall Street, greed of the extremely wealthy (like David Koch)for the miserable state of the States. It is a media campaign the likes of which have not been seen since Madison avenue got a bunch of folks to take up smoking in order to kill themselves with lung cancer!

    • jbird

      Good job ebusch.

      You can’t argue the facts presented so you try and deflect the argument by bringing up the favorite liberal straw man.

      • Stephan F.

        Well said JBird.

    • FLGirl

      Finally someone speaks the truth! I find it terribly conincidental that all this teacher/union/Government worker media frenzy started about the same time the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission released it’s findings. A wag the dog if ever there were one in my opinion. Misplaced outrage bought and paid for by huge corporate interests. Blame the teachers?! For goodness sake, what’s next blame the librarians! Or I know, let’s blame the janitors!

      • Bruce D.

        The recession only brought to light the corrupt liaison between the democrat party and the unions. The corruption has been going on for a long time independent of what happens on Wall Street. Wall Street corruption is a separate issue that no one is happy with either.

      • DaveH

        You’re right, FLGirl. We shouldn’t play the blame game. We should just do whatever any consumer would do when faced with higher prices than they want to pay — forego the product. We need to stop Big Government from spending us into a Cuban style economy.
        We need to stop paying for services that we could get much cheaper in the private sector. Stop blaming Teachers, etc., just take action and institute Voucher Systems, so parents can send their children to the schools of their choice. That will promote competition, and put the decisions into the hands of the individual school administrators as to who should be hired and fired to keep their schools from biting the dust. Good old Free Market competition.

    • Ted Crawford

      I supose that George Soros is broke? You need to read a different chapter in comrade Alinskys book! The class warfare gambit has run its course. I’m sure ole Saul would be proud of you ebusch!

    • meteorlady

      Ewwwwwww…. the new liberal bad people. Did you know that their corporation is the largest privately held in the United States. That they have received awards for the way they conduct business? Did you know that they employ around 50,000 US CITIZENS? At least they contribute to the economy through jobs and taxes.

      Let talk Soros…did you know that he and his many organizations were Obama’s biggest campaign contributors for senate and president? Did you know that he was convicted of insider trading in France and is wanted for the same thing in two other countries? That he almost brought the Bank of England to it’s knees through currency trading and a lot of middle income people in England lost their retirements and savings accounts? Did you know that he brought two countries to third world status through his currency manipulations? His hedge fund is large enough to manipulate the stock market here is this country and that he is making MILLIONS betting against our dollar? It is believed that he is the main culprit in over $2 Billion disappearing from the stock market as Lehman was collapsing, thus hastening the stock market crash?

      If I was extremely religious I would classify him as the devil incarnate. He and his organizations owns most of the Democrats and a nice percentage of the Republicans. He has publicly stated many times that the United States is the last country that stands in the way of One World Order. That he intends to bring us down to get his wish. He believe strongly in social experimentation and that we are sheep that have no knowledge of what is best for us.

      Please take the time to read up on him, this is Obama’s puppet master. I think he makes the Koch brothers look like saints.

      • JeffH

        The libs are the only ones to not go there…they like to say that Soros is mis-understood…???LMAO!

    • JC

      ebusch says:
      March 10, 2011 at 8:13 am
      Good job, Mr. DiLorenzo! The Brothers Koch are getting their money’s worth out of this article. It really takes a mastermind to get folks to blame public employees rather than bankers, Wall Street, greed of the extremely wealthy (like David Koch)for the miserable state of the States. It is a media campaign the likes of which have not been seen since Madison avenue got a bunch of folks to take up smoking in order to kill themselves with lung cancer!
      _________________________________________________________________

      Guess what, no one’s blaming the so called public employees “instead” of the Bankers and Politicians, no no no…you’re ALL part of the problem.

  • Boyce Nelson

    If you want to see the results of public unionism gone crazy you only have to look at DC. Due to unionism, they have hired and fostered some of the most incompetent teachers imaginable. It was so bad that a charter school system was alloed for a while. This system turned out some of the best college-eligible students ever! This was not accepted very well by the public school union. So thry were instrumental in having charter schools banned. Although more money was spent per pupil in DC public schools, they are rated as one of the worst in the nation. This is what can happen when a bad public school union is sanctioned.

    • Bruce D.

      Boyce you said it all. That is why tenure, socialism, and communism are destructive tools of social engineering. It is always the same, poor results and attack the real producers.

  • http://www.stationreporter.net Retired Governemnt Employee

    I am a retired Station Agent for MTA New York City Transit and a Union Member of Transport Workers Union Local 100.Opinions stated are my own and not those of MTA and/or TWU.
    Before the union, subway employees worked 7 days a week with one day off per month. Then it became 6 days of 12 hours.

    Even today, in Transit you are presumed guilty until proven innocent beyond any shadow of a doubt (the opposite of the “real” world. Proving innocence is like jumping off a tall skyscraper and surviving unhurt.
    On 9/11/2001 we all know what happened (and we will not get into real vs planned vs demolition).
    At the time I lived in NJ and could not get back to work that night. When I called to ask off as an emergency I was told after telling them I was stranded without transportation to New York City to “Do what you have to.”
    I was courtmartialed. I had as evidence the complete daily newspapers from New York City and New Jersey. They refused to accept the evidence.
    I finally won after I blew the cover off their secret telephone conversation tapes.

    That is why we need a union. Just because I worked for the Government does not mean my rent is cheaper or my food, utilities and clothing are cheaper. I pay the same as you do!@

    When there are 2 feet of snow and the city is closed- if you are scheduled to work you come in- no excuses, even in a state of emergency .
    When your day is done you go home. In my case, if my relief does not show I must stay- up to 12 more hours! You get a lunch break and coffee break(s). With us, if there is a shortage of employees due to illness, etc. we get no lunch. If you need to use the restroom you do so. In our case we must ask for permission.

    I could go on but I think I made my “speech.”

    • jbird

      In other words, Retired Governemnt Employee, you had to do your job like the rest of us have to do every day.

    • Lastmanstanding

      RGE. Sounds to me like you should have just got another job if it sucked so much… Of course you have left out how much money and benefits that you received while working…and what you are receiving now that you are retired…by the way, how old are you??? How long did you work before retirement.

      As an owner of 2 small business, “f%#$ you” You people are so bought and paid for. You have no idea what it is like to worry about keeping people in their job or where your going to “pull money out of your ass” to keep things going! You have no idea about standing alone and negotiating a deal that will save your home, put food on your table, pay your employees, etc.

      You weak, pathetic, socialist sheeple have to have a “union” to hide behind. You don’t have the balls to stand up for yourself and be free! You are used, reused and will eventually be discarded with no regard. Just what and see…

      Those of us that will stand alone in the face of adversity will prevail far easy than those of you that are ” kept and manipulated at will.”

      As a descendant of Patrick Henry…I will repeat his cry for freedom!

      “Give me liberty…or give me death!

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        I Give you an Atta Boy lastmanstanding!!!!_-I Wish I had a thumbs up button!!! :)

      • meteorlady

        Thanks – as a small business owner I have to agree. I have also taken out a mortgage on my home to make payroll and keep the company going. These crybabies need to get a life and work with protection like the rest of us have to do.

        I pay decent wages, above Union in fact, because I believe that my employees are the most valuable asset that I have. I pay health care, though it’s going up and I’m not sure what to do about that right now. My people have voted twice to not join a union as they feel that they would get nothing out of it and only pay into it.

        • Lastmanstanding

          meteorlady. GOD BLESS YOU. WE MUST/WILL STAND TALL…

    • Patty

      You get lunch and coffee breaks? What are those? I walked to school uphill. Both ways. In 2 feet of snow. With cardboard boxes for shoes. You had shoes?…….

    • meteorlady

      So – did anyone force you to work?

      I worked for while going to college. I worked for Boeing. You cannot take an hourly job there without joining the Union. I opted for a salaried job because the Union dues were $50.00 PER MONTH. For a student that is huge.

      When I would go to the other end of the building to pick up something I would also pick up any packages that need to go to the Union worker at the other end. This I thought would save time for him and make his job better. He turned me in as I was not allowed to touch anything that was a Union job…..

      These people would go out on strike and that affected the rest of us who were left to do their jobs. Then when they got what they wanted they returned thinking they made headway. We added up the lost wages and they never even made the money back before the next bargaining session was to begin. Hmmmmmmm…. doesn’t seem very logical to me at all.

  • http://yahoo rwells

    unions always get the bum rap, yes the deficit is all the fault of the teachers union. lest we be so blind as not to see the real cause, and that is all of the corporate tax breaks (give to the rich and steal the downfall from the poor mans pocket) but of course they never tell you the truth about that. put the blame back where it truely belongs. what a revolutionary thought, the trueth. take that for all it is worth, are all of you so cond by lies. good day to you all open yopur eye’s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Tisk, Tisk.

    • Bruce D.

      You should know all about lies rwells, you post is filled with them. This is not about rich or poor, it is about union corruption and political bribes, along with communist tenure.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Amen, Bruce D!! ;)

      • Eddie47d

        Yeh Bruce and Angel you’re always blaming the unions for the world’s problems and then throw in a few commie slogans to make them look really really bad. Go back to sleep and warm the back side of your favorite corporate crook and dream with visions of sugar plums loaded with gold.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          eddie47d, C’est la vie!

        • DaveH

          Nobody needs any commie slogans to make Unions look bad. They do that job quite well by themselves. Unions are nothing more than gangs who take from others to give to themselves.

          • Vigilant

            BINGO!

          • Eddie47d

            Corporate thieves take from unsuspecting others and make a killing. Now that’s a BINGO!

          • DaveH

            There are some corporate thieves, and some crony capitalists. And there shouldn’t be. But neither excuses thuggish Union behavior.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, I thought this would open some eyes. Can’t say it’s the union but it surely is a union sympathizer.

            The following is a shocking, scary e-mail sent to Wisconsin GOP senators last night at around 9:30 pm, shortly after the Senate passed an anti-union bill. Not only does the e-mail threaten the senators with death, but it also vows “your familes [sic] will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks.”

            From: XXXX
            Sent: Wed 3/9/2011 9:18 PM
            To: Sen.Kapanke; Sen.Darling; Sen.Cowles; Sen.Ellis; Sen.Fitzgerald; Sen.Galloway; Sen.Grothman; Sen.Harsdorf; Sen.Hopper; Sen.Kedzie; Sen.Lasee; Sen.Lazich; Sen.Leibham; Sen.Moulton; Sen.Olsen

            Subject: Atten: Death threat!!!! Bomb!!!!
            Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks.

            The email gets even more graphic and threatening.
            http://www.theblaze.com/stories/you-will-die-read-the-shocking-e-mail-sent-to-wis-gop-senators/

          • DaveH

            That doesn’t surprise me a bit, Jeff.

          • JC

            A bunch of Nazi thugs, right to the end….

    • DaveH

      Corporations don’t pay taxes. People pay taxes. There should be no corporate tax at all. It is just an illusion created by Government to take advantage of the Politics of Envy embraced by so many ignorant people. Corporate taxes, as is true of most of the other myriad under-the-rug taxes, are just a sneaky way for politicians to acquire control over more of our wealth.
      The various US Governments now spend over 40% of our Gross Domestic Product. And much of it is spent wastefully. The Government doesn’t create Wealth, it consumes Wealth.

    • Patty

      It is not all their fault. But it is a good start…moving on to the next to put it as you liberals do “to level the playing field”. Bring it ON!

    • meteorlady

      Could you back that up with some facts because last time I looked we had the SECOND HIGHEST CORPORATE TAX RATES in the world today. Japan is #1 and they are lowering theirs to attract companies back to their country.

  • Frank

    Unions Suck
    Their moto: where one job exists, as a good upstanding member, it is your duty to try to make two jobs out of one or if three jobs exist make six jobs and on and on.
    All you suckers that pay union dues support the democrap party directly with these dues.
    If you would dump these THUGS, you would get a nice raise in pay just from not paying dues. Unions SUCK

  • Frank

    A few years ago when people were starting up dot com businesses and money was plentiful, we could not get people to take the job of a police officer. Now that things are not so good, everyone wants to kick the government worker in the teeth. I agree that everyone has to make concessions given the current economic situation, but we should look at things honestly. There are always valid points on both sides of an argument but what everyone needs to do is look at those things and not just the issues that get headlines. I could go one for days about things that are right and things that are wrong. But what I would rather do is tell you about a real life example that shows one inherent problem with the current government programs.

    My father-in-law was a frontline Korean War veteran. Some years after coming home from Korea, he got on the city police department where he worked until he was injured and forced to retire at 64 years of age. He currently gets about a $27,000 annual pension and lives in Massachusetts (or Taxachusetts as some people call it).

    Recently I was speaking to a woman who receives government assistance from numerous programs. She was telling us what she received and I almost fell out of my chair. We added up all her “tax-free” entitlements (section 8 housing, food stamps, SSDI, etc) and it added up to almost $35,000 for the year. And that is just what she admitted to us.

    This is one woman, in one apartment in one three family house on one street in the City of Boston. Multiply that times how many apartments in how many houses on how many streets? Are you getting the picture?

    Here was a woman who has never contributed to the system who was receiving more each year than a guy who went to war when this country sent him and who then came back and patrolled the city to make it safe for all of us. Does anyone besides me think there is something wrong with this picture?

    I agree that there are issues with the underfunded pensions but the government has known that for years. I agree that something has to be done about it. But what about all these people who receive a lifetime “pension” and have never contributed to the system. While there may be valid arguments for revamping the unions’ roles, at least those people are working for what they get. And I do agree that there are some lazy government workers. I can only say one thing about that, “We hire from the human race”. Unfortunately the guidelines for hiring don’t allow for any sort of discrimination. Personally I would discriminate against the lazy, but we can’t do that either.

    Anyways, I don’t hear anyone yelling about the government subsidy programs. Or if they are, no media outlet will broadcast it.

    I have one last point for all of us to ponder. If you work for the government, you can go right on line and see exactly how much someone earned last year. Quite frankly I think you should be able to. Privacy, to some extent, is something I gave up when I chose to accept the job. But why can’t I go on line and put in a person’s name who is receiving public assistance and find out everything that person is getting? Or why can’t I put a specific address in and find out how many government funded payments are going to that particular address? Shouldn’t that information be transparent also? I can tell you this, from working in the poorer areas of a fairly large inner city, the abuse is atrocious.

    I will gladly do my part to be part of the solution, but as a union and government worker, I should not be the only scapegoat.

    • Bruce D.

      It is not only about balancing the budget, it is about union corruption. We know what kind of money you get paid not to work after 30 years working for the government. You can retire and make more than a lot of people do working for a living. You start at 20 and can retire at 50. Over 30 years in retirement and you can pull in over a million dollars.

      • Eddie47d

        Bruce; You are too absorbed with the term “union corruption”. You act like it is everywhere and in every union,(Guilt by association).That makes your point somewhat suspect because you are not honest. Since you are so enthralled in how much everyone else makes tell us how much you make or is that so hard and embarrassing. Tell us how much you will make after 3o years of retirement and use the same calculations you used for that other fellow. I make exactly $36,900 in retirement including taxes and health benefits. So does that make me an evil union trollop and curse of the earth? As you seem to imply in every breath you take.

        • S.C.Murf

          fast eddie how much of the 36,900 was your contribution and how much of it was taxpayers? I hope it wasn’t like wisconsin zero your part and 100% taxpayers! What union were you with?

        • Eddie47d

          I’m still waiting for an answer Bruce D. I know your out there.

          • JC

            I’m still waiting for your proof of Gun Show Loop Holes…and you’re definately out there…

        • Eddie47d

          You know so little Murf so I won’t indulge in your fantasies. Bruce brought it up so maybe after he replies. I have asked that of others besides Bruce who have exploited other persons salaries but say nothing of their own. How about you Murf-same question?

      • Frank

        Bruce, I disagree with you. It is about balancing the budget. I also agree that if there is union corruption it should be eliminated. But I can tell you that governments are powerful and if there was not protections in place there would be a lot more cronyism and political paybacks (both positive and negative) without some protection. People who don’t deserve the jobs would get them and those that did them properly would get conveniently fired or replaced. I do believe that the unions need to bend a bit with the current times, but I can also tell you that they should not be eliminated. Also in the fifteen years since I have been on the police department, I have had five years with zero percent raises. Last year I took a ten percent cut off my base pay. I totally agree that we need to look at everything but even in the case of the welfare abusers, there are some who are not abusing the system. And by the way, I cannot retire until I am 65.

    • Thamera

      People should pay a lot more attention to the cost of the welfare class. The stories that you shared are not unique, in fact, they are all too common. Just multiply your one story by thousands and tell me that isn’t a problem. I work with it everyday. It is a disgrace.

      • JeffH

        I heard a tory on the local talk staion a few months back where a guy who had been laid off was actually making “more” than he was while he was working. Married with house payments and 3 kids and with all of the assistance he figured he was getting over $4 grand a month take home.

    • DaveH

      We could solve those problems, Frank, and many more, by returning most Government functions to the Private Sector where they belong. The Private Sector where consumers make voluntary choices about which products to spend their hard-earned money on. The Private Sector where the providers of services cannot treat the consumers disrespectfully without losing their business. The Private Sector where the workers know if they don’t provide an honest days labor to their employer they might very well lose their jobs. As it should be.

      • DaveH

        For anybody who wants to get a glimpse of how Free Markets would work, just read this free online book by Murray Rothbard:
        http://mises.org/books/newliberty.pdf

      • Frank

        I agree that there are definitely things in the government sector that could be privatized. However, I think a lot of what is going on in places like Wisconsin are being fueled by emotion and not reason. There is always room for change and improvement, but they should not be changed without an honest look at the other side of the issue. I belong to a local association, which I guess in reality is a union, without all the national ties. I do think that people are letting their emotions get the best of them and are lashing out with a lot of vitriol. I have worked in both the private sector and have belonged to a few unions over the course of my 45 plus years on this earth.

        At times I certainly have agreed that unions have outlived their usefullness. But at other times, I have seen what city government has done at their will only to be stopped by the collective groups fighting for the workers’ rights. A lot of people yelling about this issue have never worked for a government agency and don’t realize the politics that would come into the issue if the unions were not there. I have watched mayors and city councillors just do whatever they want for whomever they want when they thought no one was looking. When an individual stands up to protest, they are transferred, disciplined or even fired. When the person stands up as part of a union the government trampling of the common citizen can be stopped. If you hate the unions so much and suddenly think that the government wouldn’t do it to you, then you are crazy.

        • DaveH

          Don’t work for them, Frank. It’s as simple as that if you don’t like the working conditions they offer.

    • meteorlady

      I live in a private community. We are in a homeowner’s association so we pay for security and fire. We have a contribution of about $25.00 per month per house that goes for this. We are about 4500 houses. So, these people are non-Union and they do such a good job that we get reduced insurance rates because of them. We pay them well and they also have volunteers that help out from time to time.

  • Stephan F.

    Dead-Spot-On! DiLorenzo has nailed it again with a piece that gets to the absolute ‘heart of the matter’. The solution to the problem to me is obvious — repeal the ‘National Labor Relations Act of 1935′. Until the denizens of the ‘true’ working class (who are the real wealth producers in this country) realize they’ve been had and start to break-up this incestuous relationship between government and unions through political action, they will continue to be enslaved. Strangely, one of the problems is that most dont understand their predicament and seem to have a ‘love of servitude’. I hope that changes soon. In the meantime I offer two relevant quotes from Mike Shedlock:

    “Those who stand to benefit at the expense of others are always the first to have their hands out.”

    “If ever there was a blatant lie, the statement “This is not about us” ranks right at the top of the list. The teachers, police, firemen, and all government employees could easily take a pay cut or a benefit cut. Instead they want to suck the taxpayers dry.”

  • American Citizen

    The old sayings come about through experience. One of them is, “What you want more of, you subsidize.” We’re surely seeing the effects of what the government is subsidizing. And it’s our money and we want it now!! It’s time to take back and roll back government spending. It’s time to do away with the political unions, which is all that public sector unions are. We, the taxpayers, are not consulted by these unions, thus they are illegal.

  • Dave

    look at the source of the article. Thomas J. DiLorenzo is a member of The League of the South, a Southern nationalist organization advocating a free and independent Southern republic. Can you say KKK?

    States are not going bankrupt. They are all paying their bills and employees. It is the recession that has caused tax revenues to fall, not unions. My guess is that all you anti-union folks make around 30K a year and watch Fox news. The Plutocracy has succeeded in turning the lower class against the middle class, and the end result will be we will all be working at Walmart for low wages and no benefits, and the top 2% will keep their 90% piece of the pie and the rest of us get the crumbs.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Dave,

      This is a Leftwing lie that I will not allow to stand. It was fostered by the corrupt anti-American Southern Poverty Law Center, or as we call them, the Southern Preposterous Lie Center. He was never a member of the League of the South and the League of the South has nothing to do with the KKK.

      Mr. DiLorenzo refutes this lie here:

      http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo202.html

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Vigilant

        Dave, I think an apology is due to Mr. DiLorenzo on this score.

        And thanks, Bob, for calling him out on this.

        I don’t agree with Mr. DiLorenzo’s take on Abraham Lincoln, but that’s another matter. No one deserves to have scurrilous lies propagated by those with an agenda, left or right.

    • Thamera

      Dave: Your ignorance is just downright scary!

    • DaveH

      As usual, instead of trying to rebutt the evidence that has been provided (which he couldn’t), the Liberal chooses to personally attack the author.

    • meteorlady

      Oh gads – where did you get that from MSNBC?

      • JeffH

        I’m sure he “heard” it somewhere.

        • Eddie47d

          Look it up Jeff and stop making assumptions on Thomas J DiLorenzo. He teaches at the League of the South Institute in S.C. The school was founded by the ….. League of the South.

          • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Eddie 47d,

            I have already pointed out that is a lie.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • JeffH

            eddie, are you not going to start treating Bob Livingston to your gutteral replies because he also points out one of your more than regular erroneous comments?

          • Vigilant

            Eddie, you could have checked the URL link provided by Mr. Livingston, but as usual you blathered without facts, conscience or grace.

          • Eddie47d

            It’s out there on the internet so someone is fibbing.

          • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

            Eddie69d. There you go again, now why don’t you be polite and go F#%# Yourself, in an Islamic Muslim Brotherhood Communist Democrapic Union.

    • JC

      Dave says:
      March 10, 2011 at 8:55 am
      look at the source of the article. Thomas J. DiLorenzo is a member of The League of the South, a Southern nationalist organization advocating a free and independent Southern republic. Can you say KKK?
      ___________________________________________________________

      Arrogant Libelous Bullsh**.
      I suppose EVERYBODY from the south is in the KKK?
      What a complete and utter Moron you really are.

  • DaveH

    Go Thomas! Excellent article.

  • c.lynn

    The unions promised too much. All these bureaucracy’s need to get their spending under control. The country is going broke, the states are going broke. It would be better to pay a little more for insurance etc. than to have no job at all. They always say we can’t cut funding to our schools, but I say cut school funding first. A lot of waste, fraud and abuse there. Get back to the basics reading writing and arithmetic. Cut school hours it is not a baby sitting service.

  • http://yahoo rwells

    it all goes back to corporate tax breaks. and if there were no unions, you would be working 12 and 16 hour days for way way less pay and much more hazarsous situations and instead of the thousand times the pay ratio of ceo to laborers pay lets make that ten to twenty fold the difference.. truely blind

    • meteorlady

      “it all goes back to corporate tax breaks.”

      Please advise where you got these “facts”? What exactly are these tax breaks? Because what I know is that we have the second highest corporate taxes in the world.
      http://www.cnbc.com/id/30727913/The_World_s_Highest_Corporate_Tax_Rates_2010?slide=10

      “and if there were no unions, you would be working 12 and 16 hour days for way way less pay and much more hazarsous situations and instead of the thousand times the pay ratio of ceo to laborers pay lets make that ten to twenty fold the difference.. truely blind”

      As a small business owner I can’t relate to unions and their members. I pay decent wages and benefits because it benefits my business to keep educated, good workers. I pay for overtime and pay for health care. My working environment is safe for the same reasons. Fact is the union have been to my business and my employees are not interested.

  • http://yahoo rwells

    p.s. i am not a union member and no i am not stupid either i see things for what they truely are,,,, not for what i am lied to and led to beleive by the richmans obsurdities

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      rwells, you have a choice to believe or not to believe, truth is our own to find!

      • bob wire

        In deed it is Angel

    • Ted Crawford

      “It is error alone which needs the support of Government. Truth can stand by itself.” Thomas Jefferson

    • meteorlady

      While you are welcome to believe or disbelieve, I choose to look at the facts and if I can’t find them, then I discount them.

  • samnjoeysgrama

    The point is not and has never been that individual teachers, firefighters, or police are at fault. The point is the system doesn’t work. Interestingly, both sides of the argument recognize that. They just blame the other side instead of blaming the SYSTEM.
    Most Americans make their decisions based on feelings not facts. They are much more easily swayed by a movie than by logical discourse or a spot-on book or lists of facts. Logically, people know we are on an unsustainable path. But they “feel” we should be kind to workers.
    This is why we all need to demand that the movie Atlas Shrugged be shown in our local theaters. Atlas Shrugged (the book) predicted EVERYTHING that is happening now. If more non-readers (most Americans unfortunately) could be exposed to the “feelings” that watching a movie elicit, we might wake up America to the logical consequences of socialism. Too many people just don’t want to think about it and “feel” nothing can happen here because it is America. Dream on. Demand to see Atlas Shrugged and then talk it up to your friends. You know they won’t read the book.
    We don’t have many opportunities to influence people’s feelings. This could be one and we need to use it.
    http://www.atlasshruggedpart1.com/get_involved?gclid=CK_9hJifxKcCFQTNKgod7W5YFw

    • JR

      You lost your credibility by linking to Gellers blog.

    • Ted Crawford

      I read it in High School. I’ve been watching it develope ever since, I’m now 62. Another eyeopener is The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire! The parallels to modern American society are frightning!

      • bob wire

        Resistance is futile

        the mechanic is in play

        life is a process of prolonging the evidential

        Yesterday is history, Tomorrow a mystery and today a “Gift”

        and why it’ call “The Present”

        “Elinor Roosevelt”

    • meteorlady

      I own an original printing of Altas Shrugged. I believe that it is one of the single most compelling literary books of our time. I loved Ayn Rand and wish she was still with us. She was soooooooo logical.

      I am so surprised that they are actually making a movie. Wonder if it will be as good and follow the book? I hope so…. people need to view things like this in order to keep balance in their lives.

      • Vigilant

        Ayn Rand was a great modern thinker. Too bad she was also an atheist.

        • bob wire

          Ayn Rand was a word smith, thinker and fiction writer extraordinaire

          A narcissistic predator that could baffle the brightest.

          Thank God , there was only one of her!

      • bob wire

        I always wondered why they never made a movie from her novel “We the Living” it was a extremely powerful novel of a woman and her family enduring communist repression and torn between two lovers ( as she so noted for) she’s always hot and in demand! A time in Russian History were town people was shot by the Red Army for scrounging about in the snow looking for something to burn to keep their families from freezing to death. Bleak times.

  • catfish

    I can’t understand how the unions have lasted this long. It has always been a Madoff ponzi scheme. They always collaspe. The jig is up, the balloon has burst.

    The easy way to settle these issues is to post honestly the conpensation packages negoiated by management and the unions. The protesters will change faces.

  • momplayer

    It seems like Nv is finally doing something about our education system.(only because the want federal money) Our student proficency rate for math and reading is 24%. Our graduation rate is 57%. The teachers here make about $50,000.00 per school year (187 days) When Nv was eligible for federal money last year the teachers refused to take any proficency tests in their chosen field ,so no federal money.I see my grandaughter struggle in her science class because instead of teaching her chemistry,the teacher rants about the goverment,her pay,her long hours or whatever else she feels like ranting about. She has tried numerous times to transfer out of that class and can,t. She wants to be a forencs specialist and needs this chemistry class.She has always carried a 3.5 to 4.0 grade average now she’s failing science,the teacher stating she doesn’t participate in class. Teachers shoud HAVE to prove they are capable of teaching. They should NOT be guaranteed a job forever once they have it.Hopefully we’ll get kids that are smart enough to figure out how to get us out of this mess.

  • JR

    The so called Fair tax does NOT work. It was dreamed up by the rich to shift they’re tax burden to the rest of the people. 75+% of the purchases of the rich are made abroad already, and if the fair tax is implemented you will see this going to 100%. How do you want to propose to tax a purchase not done in the US? How do you tax the 10 million Yacht bought in Italy? The island bought in the south sea?
    You can’t. All the fair tax will do is to shift 100% of the tax burden to the lower income citizen. Are you prepared for your tax share to go through the roof in order for the US to not self destruct? Are you prepared to pay 60.70,80,100,200+ % taxes on all your purchases? Someone will have to pay for this country, the upper 2 % will not. Fair tax will cause the destruction of this country far faster then any communist or anarchists ever can.

    The only working solution is a flat tax. EVERYONE pays 10%(or whatever the number will be) of they’re income period, no exemptions, no loopholes. This way, everyone will be burdened with the same 10% independent of what you are making.

  • Raggs

    Dissolve ALL unions.

  • http://msn.com Wizzer

    Homerun for DiLorenzo. I hear the clock ticking and the rats are scrambling for high ground. These public sector unions are like the Titanic… they are goin DOWN!!! These union people in WI remind me of little kids in the grocery store throwing a fit because mommy won’t buy them the candy bar they want. Get real, do the math… the taxpayers can’t afford this anymore. States can’t print money like the Fed. We are in the desert, it’s 110 degrees & my canteen is empty. Do you want to drink my pee too?

  • patrick

    This is how it works!!! I was an employee for the City of Minneapolis. I had NO CHOICE to be a union member and I had to pay monthly dues. I worked in the Sanitation dept. or garbage. This was the union leaders demand to Minneapolis politicans: pay the garbage workers for 8 hours of work even if they can get the job done in 1 hour. The reason why the unions made this demand was because most of the previous garbage workes were all DRUNK by 8:00am and citizens called in reports that there are drunk City workers laying around in the parks sleeping and not working. So to save the politicans face and their jobs, the City of Minneapolis agreed to the Union’s demand and changed the rules. So now Minneapolis garbage workers run up and down the alleys and dump your garbage carts, and in so doing, they get their work done in a few hours, then they go home after only working 2 hours, yet they collect 8 hours of pay. Folks this is how the Unions and Liberal democrats run and control Govt workers in Minneapolis. The average hourly rate is probably around $25 per hour or higher, add in the benefit packages, vacation time, sick time, birthday time off, 11 holidays of pay…. wow these huge sums are paid for by YOU the taxpayer. And like an earlier writer wrote, the Union’s and Minneapolis politicans use the STRIKE threat as a means to EXTORT these ridiculous contracts, salary and benefit package because we taxpayers do not have any option if we disagree!!! Yes they have a monopoly and that is how they hold us hostage. Minnesota taxpayers must begin the same protests that are occuring in Wisconsin since Minnesota is in debt, I think even more than WI is in debt. Now, with a new Liberal democrat Gov. Dayton, guess what he wants to do? Yes…. add more public jobs and RAISE TAXES. These are punishable crimes and Dayton should be impeached just like Obammy boy needs to be impeached

    • Patty

      Right on brother.

  • NT

    There are no employee protections presented by the unions in China. The unions are ran by the government. Workers receive 40 hours pay for working 60 hours that should have been covered by import duties. The Republican proposed changes in unions will match the government’s union management in China. Why are you yelling just the opposite? What seven years working in China demonstrates is that the Republicans are really not telling the truth. Basic union rights to organize are supporfted by the present national laws and that many of the state changes will not be upheld. There has been too many politician dealings with unions that backfired and have come to hurt the state governments. Should the taxpayers be responsible for the past union deals of the politicians, both Democrates and Republicans. Adjustments need to be made to correct the bad deals of the past, just like the need to retreave the past theft of financiers, bankers and insider information to judges, mostly REPUBLICANS.

    I have driven out of the post office because I represented a possible interruption to senority promotions of the manageming qlick. At the IRS as the best trainee with an advanced level, the instructors forced me out due to future competition for higher positions. I was willing to take $14,000 reduction in pay to get the possibility to get to the international division (I speak French and German). President Obama is not responsibility for the above actions that took place during Republican Administrations.

    • meteorlady

      If you believe that I have a lakefront home in AZ I want to sell you. China vs the US? Get real………

    • bob wire

      I head a few day ago that the Chinese factory that assembles Apples I phones was having a problem with employee committing suicide.

      Don’t sound much like standard union work place conditions to me.

      I met a little Philippine girl a few years back that work at a watch factory. She had marriage on her mind in a big way, she wanted out of there. I had to throw her back, I felt bad for her but marriage? She’s probably married by now, I want to think so.

      They work these people hard. ~ Even in Mexico, they work them long and hard. I met Quiny in Matatmoris, she worked at factory making car parts for 20 dollars day. There was no union there.

      • Patty

        Really, I work long and hard. Just to make sure my employees and their bennies are paid. Not feeling it here,

  • patrick

    As a follow up to my above comments, I was also a union steward, but I think I was ahead of time because I acted like a true Tea Party type of patriotic American, and after iI filed a workers comp claim do to a work injury, I was blacballed by the City leaders and the Teamsters union. The Union did nothing to save my job and all the privledges and additional authority I had as a union steward were taken away from me. Then i was reclassified, put into another union, and I was put into office type of jobs until the City leaders secratively conspired to eliminate my job. Again, the Unions did not help or suppot me in any way or form. In the end, I brought law suits against the City of Minneapolis and I won, beat en at the local level courts which they appealled and I beat them at that level. I finally settled with them. By the way, I represented myself and boy did that piss them off when I kicked their butts. Yes, you can fight City Hall!!!!!

  • barbm

    my issue isn’t with the corporations’ taxes, it’s with the wealthy owners and upper management. there should be no deductions. you pay on what you earn, period. i do have some problems with corps. is there anybody in the world who doesn’t know what coke is? unless coke comes out with some new product, why are they allowed to deduct advertising? if you’ve had coke and pepsi, you know which you like. no amount of advertising is going to convince me to drink pepsi. i also have a problem with the earned income credit. why should people get back 3 or 4 times what they pay in? one shouldn’t be rewarded by the government for working. working should be the norm.

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

      Hey Barbm:

      The answer to your post is http://www.fairtax.org
      Please check it out. Tell your friends and relatives. We need to get the word out.

      If we restrict what advertising costs may be deducted we are simply giving the politicians and the IRS more places to meddle.

      Checked your post from Tuesday night. How ya feeling? I would suggest you try 250 mg of B12 once, or even twice a day. You might also be low on Vit D.

      How ya coming with your eBay postings? I buy on eBay, but have never sold anything. However, I SHOULD as my “stuff” is outa hand. HA!

      • barbm

        debra medina was pushing the fair tax when she ran as the tea party favorite for texas governor. she was mostly concerned about property rights. people never really own their homes as long as the govt can take them in leiu of taxes owed. i agree with the fair tax but, as some have stated, it would sure put a paperwork burden on businesses. and it doesn’t answer my question of why earned income credit should be given.

        if i had the money to buy vitamins i would. kind of goes with another story on bob’s newsletter today. somebody said republicans don’t donate to charities. when i was working, i took on the responsibility of caring for 2 feral cat colonies (about 25 cats total). i had 4 fixed the week before Christmas and 2 the week after new years. i go through 40 pounds of cat food a week. that’s my charity. even though i lost my job, i can’t just abandon the cats. it’s a lot of work (partly why i’m so tired?) and a thankless job. i have to fight with the neighbors over it because they’re hateful old ladies who don’t like cats. the way to fix the over-population of cats isn’t to kill them, it’s to fix them. it’s not their fault, it’s ours. san antonio killed olmost 2000 cats and dogs in august 2010 6 of which came from my neighbor trapping and taking them to the pound to be killed. only 1 was mine which i had to pay $73 to get out, and i raised bloody hell at the city council meeting for about 3 weeks before they sent me a check for $73 to shut me up. got a free microchip out of it too since they wouldn’t let me have her without having it done. :) i could make it on what i get from ss if i didn’t have the cats to care for.

        i still haven’t finished the video games and systems, but i got a couple of other things listed that were fast and easy. hope to finish the games today. ebay isn’t as good as it used to be. rules changed to favor the buyer, people are broke, and there’s way too much competition for merchandise as many have turned to ebay who can’t find a job.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Hey BarbM:

          I’be got a bunch of ferel cats around here as well. Lots of in[breeding. I have a lot of cornfield around me and they live in there during the good weather. Back in the summer of ’06 my oldest grandaughter saw a couple of them and wanted to feed them. So….. Now it’s my job! HA! I have had a couple of them “adopt” me. As I write this one is in the garage on a chair I set up for her sitting in a heated bird bath having about her 5th or 9th litter. I go through about 25 lbls / week. And i am a DOG person.

          Had a collie as a kid and 2 Samoyeds as an “adult”. They are all God’s creatures.

          My current “buddie” has come in the house during the bitter cold to warm up and get her feet thawed out. Fell asleep on the kitechen floor during the FEB blizzard. Woke up and wanted back outside to sleep in the garage….

          Wish I could help….. Would have liked to see yo in aciton at the city council meetings!!

      • meteorlady

        Am I on a social site here? What’s the deal….?

        • barbm

          if you don’t like it, you can take it to bob for removal, skip reading it, or find another site. he asked, i answered.

      • JR

        Fair tax does not work, All it will do is for people to barter and the rich to buy they’re stuff outside the US. This will leave all the burden on the middle class and lower income citizen. It will result in a run away slide into general poverty and the destruction of this country…but that is what some people want, a 3rd world US so that the NWO can be implemented that much sooner.

  • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

    Mr. DiLorenzo:

    Great article! Unionism 101. It helped me understand why something that I intrinsicallyknew was bad, is indeed bad.

  • hrc49663

    We need to disband the IRS, create a flat tax of 15% on all purchases other than food, gas, electric and home heating. This would save billions in salaries for IRS employees which is a bloated organization anyway. We should also do away with the Federal reserve offices and replace it with one hundreth of the number of employees currently employed there. Right now government employees account for 50% of all employed people in the US. This is nothing but hugely inefficient organizations that could be disbanded without hurting our government processes. Smaller more efficient government means enormous savings, and a more prosperous country.

    • meteorlady

      When I was in college – way back…. my economics professor said that when 50% of the people are supporting the other 50% we are bankrupts and will be unable to continue the ponzi scheme any longer. WOW, think we’re there and the government is just treading water right now until they can’t print any more money and their scheme is exposed.

    • bob wire

      How would the 15% be collected , point of sale? and if so,what would the point of sale be required to do with it?

      You and I both know, where it be the GOP or DNC, Federal , State County or city ~ they will spend every dime!

      Government need to be given incentives to not spend, ~ beheading or public flogging, okay ~ I’m joking ~ but really, how can we the Tax payer offer government incentives?

      We need to get the dog back to wagging his tail and not the other way around.

  • jopa

    So many on this site have a tendency to call union members thugs.I have been in several differant unions in my working career and never ran across a thug, just everyday people like all of you and your neighbors.Back in the forties when there were many a hired gun to kill workers on strike the workers that defended themselves became known as the thugs,It is a lot more civilized today but the thug term is just a tool of the mainstream medias.Remember Larry Craig of the republican party.It would be like saying all republicans have a wide stance and because he was a closet gay so all republicans are the same.

    • john

      Jopa,
      Just watch the new and you’ll see the thugs. You might even see a few in Wisconsin.

      Also, if we reformed the tax system, how would the public sector parasites exist?

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Hey john, Fox News just had it on_ that Law enforcement in Wisconcin, are forcibly dragging protesters from the Assembly room!

    • Eddie47d

      Same here jopa, 40 years in the union and seldom saw anyone goof off and never saw a union thug. I say turn in someone who you see going home for 2 hours or sitting in a bar for more than an hour. Write down their vehicle number and call them in. They will get the picture quick. If it is within an office and someone is napping everyday or watching porn. Send an anonymous complaint and have your facts straight (not revenge). They will get the message loud and clear. 8 hours work for 8 hours pay.

      • DaveH

        Oh, come on, you live in a dream world, Eddie. Anybody who has ever crossed a Union pickett line knows better. Anybody who has refused to join a Union knows better. My neighbor lady got her tires slashed when she refused to join a Union.
        Why do you think Unionists fought so hard to get Card-Check? So they could intimidate those who didn’t vote for them of course.
        I was in a Union when I was dumb and young, and they did nothing but stop me from doing things which I (with the companie’s approval) wanted to do.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          DaveH:

          I personally never worked in a union – by choice. I do have an older brother-in-law who did work for unions in his teens / early 20s. ONe of them being a large manufacturer of construction equipment. He has told me that whenever he did ANYTHING above and beyond his “job requirements” his co-workers would, ah shall I say, make his life miserable.

          He got fed up with the union slugs and left for greener pastures, made a pretty good sum over 40 years and retired.

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

      Jopa:

      Thugs? Check out the union thug mob in Madison. Completely disrupting the democratic process, breaking windows to break into the building, trashing the capital building.

      The tax payers have finally wised up to the scam known as SEIU.

      • Eddie47d

        More mis- information by the union haters. Like when they said $7.5 million in damage was done. We aren’t falling for your slander.

      • JeffH

        Old Henry, good luck. I’ll check back from time to time to see how to handle a raving lunatic.

      • JeffH

        Yeah Old Henry…there can’t be any union thugs or angry mobs in Wisconsin…you’re just spinning eddie’s mind again…or are you?
        This series of videos coming out of Wisconsin is breathtaking.
        http://www.theblaze.com/stories/shock-videos-capture-angry-mob-busting-wis-police-barricades/

        Capitol police said they were in “crisis mode” Wednesday evening because the building had been “taken over” by protesters. About 1,000 people were inside the building and 6,000 joined them after rushing previously locked doors, according to a statement from the Department of Administration.

        Protesters even tried to break into the building through a bathroom window, but ingenuity and a quick-responding officer thwarted that attempt.

        • bob wire

          I’m afraid this is going to get worse.

          I don’t know how long people can stay mad Jeff but I got myself lost while doing some bar hopping in Tokyo back in 1970. I found myself in some small dark ally way full of angry little men, it wasn’t pretty.

          This hickey is not going away anytime soon.

          I think we are getting ready to see some serious ugly.

          • JeffH

            bob, I don’t know but something has to give. You’re right though, if it gets ugly there are gonna be a lot of unhappy people. We’ll just have to see what happens. I’m in California, the heart of liberal America, so I don’t see any uprising in this state…Moonbeam has seen to that. He owes the public unions big time for his election success and he’s not gonna do anything that would upset them.

          • JeffH

            bob, I’ll add that this might just be what the doctor ordered. Another wake-up call to America.

          • bob wire

            I agree with you in that I see it as a “good thing” in the sense it needs address instead of being hidden and to fester and attempt to ignore.

            These employees have a vested interest in any outcome and they are educated people. It’s my hope they can keep a lid on things without reaching some flash point or something that incites emotional outburst and the herding instinct takes over. What we witness yesterday evening, they were half way there.

            The political dynamic on this power play is far reaching and this is but one hand of many in the run up to 2012 and perhaps beyond. After 1 years tenure Walker may well be subjected to a recall much like these senators are today.

            It’s exciting to watch “gloves off” democracy in action. But I wonder how many years this is to continue before we completely exhaust ourselves and fan ourselves out? It’s doesn’t appears the GOP shows any signs of letting up if it hair lips the devil himself.

            nite brother

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Where is Little Barry? Time for another civility speech.

            Anybody seen Palin? She must be there somewhere.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          How about the 41 rounds of live ammunition that were found at the various entrances to the capital last week? 29 at one, 11 at another and 1 at a third.

          Can you imagine if that had been at a TEA Paty rally?

          How about the death threats against Republican legislators by union members? They have told Republicans we know where you live and where you travel / frequent. We are going to use bombs.

  • jopa

    Patrick: I bet you were one of the drunken garbage men that got caught and they fired you right.OOps just read your second comment you are a fired disgruntled employee that got fired for trying to scam the system with a bogus worker comp claim.You also claim to have tea party values, well I don’t think they believe in a social program like workers compensation.

    • S.C.Murf

      joblow time for you to make that popping sound. You know nothing about this person but still make the type of comments you are known for. What you said is your opinion and your opinion only and frankly joblow we don’t care to listen to it so take a hike

      up the hill
      airborne

  • Linda

    This article is very interesting and has alot of “ringing” in it. By that I mean anyone over 50 should have “bells” going off! Any union employee (and I am one of them at one of my jobs) knows that when election time comes our phones, home and cell, start ringing day in and day out, night in and night out with the “UNIONS” idea of how I or we should vote!!! That is one quick and easy way for me to vote the opposite. DON’T TELL ME HOW TO THINK OR VOTE – God gave me my very own set of brains to use and I will do it without being coerced. Does anyone need he definition of coerce? To compel by force, intimidation or authority especially without regard for the individual desire or volition! This is NOT what this country is about. Yes it is time for change and some of the change will result in our country channeling back to ways of the 40′s or the 50′s or before. Ways that worked for the country, that made this a positive country to live in and communities were much stronger than they are today. Don’t blame all the bankrupt states on Wall Street or the banks. Yes, they did have a hand in it but the majority of the blame lies with the unions, the lobbyists and our politicians. I also have to state that the politicians that need to wear most of the blame are the Democrats – Don’t yell at me — when I was young I considered myself to be a Democrat, yes we need a “social service for this and for that” it is a good idea, it will “create jobs, yadda yadda yadda! Thank God I finally grew up! To all you that are 50 and over let me ask you this: Back in the day if an elderly relative needed care how were the needs met? BY FAMILY pulling together. Grandparents lived with the younger families providing “free” daycare that was positive, home cooked meals, gardens growing, my grandpa was the one that taught my older brother and I to read BEFORE we entered the first grade! So there were limited if any Caregiving Companies because the needs were met by families. I am not saying that they should all be swooshed away but if more families stepped up to the plate there would be less liability for the states to be responsible for. Let’s focus on another statement made by DiLorenzo about the teachers. How many times have we as parents been infuriated with a teacher that just can’t get the message across to our kids? Then when we delve further into it we find out that the teacher has “tenure” and the school district is just waiting for the teacher to retire!! Really, at the expense of our childrent not being taught fairly. I would say that truly smacks of injustice!!! Yeah, our states are broke and now we all need to work together to fix them. The unions aren’t gonna like it coz alot of them will and should go DOWN – they have not been there for us for many years anyway, they are only there to line their own pockets with politician’s money and the good ol’ taxpayer money and OH LET’S NOT FORGET our BLOODY UNION DUES for something that does us no good!!! IT is time to wake up and smell the coffee, at times it will be bitter but the end result will be bittersweet and right.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    Private Company with a Union is a Different Problem then a Public Agency with a Union.

    The Private Company acts as a Buffer to the tax payer. In a Public Agency the Agency answers to the Public & the Union…very difficult situation.

    Privatise every Govt agency that has a private company counterpart, end of problem.

    • john

      Exactly, why do UPS and Fed Ex outperform our US Post Office?

      • barbm

        you better hope usps doesn’t go under. without their competition, fed ex and ups will raise prices. there will be no more cheap media or 1st class service. within your state, the post office is cheaper on almost everything. they’re also cheaper on anything weighing less then 4 pounds and/or under 12x12x12″. i use fed ex so much, they finally gave me a hefty frequent shipper discount. the post office doesn’t do that, but there is no country anywhere that sends a letter within their borders for anywhere near the price usps does and gets it there in 3 days. they need to cut back to 5 days a week and make their employees work harder. when you have to pick up a package, if they moved any slower getting to the back to get it for you, they’d be standing still. and they make way too much and have way too many bennies. it’s not a private corporation, but it’s not an govt owned one either. it’s quasi-governmental which means they have no boss. and we have no recourse when they screw us. when fed ex refused to pay off on a loss last year, i emailed fred k. smith, their ceo. within hours, the claims rep sent me an angry email telling me she wasn’t happy about me going over her head and that i could expect a $500 check in the mail in a couple of days. can’t do that with usps. pros and cons on both.

        • DaveH

          The customers do have the right of refusal with the USPS, but I don’t really know if you can classify them as a competitor since they are subsidized by the Taxpayers:
          http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2009/09/01/the-post-office-is-subsidized-2/

          • barbm

            you can consider them a competitor or not, but you can bet your bottom dollar that fed ex and ups will jack up their prices when usps is gone.

          • DaveH

            I actually am quite happy with the USPS, and I don’t advocate them being gone. But I would like to see all props pulled out and for them to compete on a level playing field in a Free Market.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Barbm:

          Too much pay? Move too slow? Too many bennies?

          Think SEIU…

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Bingo. Imagine what would happen as Schools privatise, suddenly the “real” world steps in and holy-$hit you have to perform and COMPETE using all your skills to remain COMPETATIVE against the other teachers. WOW..Imagine what would happen if we did that with all public work….From snow plowing to pothole patching…you’d have a contract that you could ENFORCE for quality & timeleness!
        Now all you have to do is keep the Contract Managers Honest..much smaller group..no union…Easier to audit.

        • DaveH

          I suspect, that without Government meddling, the education of our children would migrate to the Internet. And it should. Imagine the economies of scale. Think about the safety of those children, not needing to be transported back and forth every day. And not having to be subjected to the coercion of certain unsavory classmates. And the number of educators would be diminished dramatically. There are only a few courses that would need physical facilities to house the equipment necessary for experiments, etc., but the Free Market would address those concerns in the most efficient way possible. We flat out do not need the disaster that is called “public education”.

  • http://msn.com Wizzer

    RWELLS what the heck are you smokin boy? You sound like that wind bag Michael Moore. I am 53 yrs. old have never worked for a union. I have always trusted my skills and excellent work ethic to do my talkin for me. Employers are always looking for good people, competition between companies for good people allow individuals to negotiate for themselves reasonable pay and benefits. Unions breed mediocrity… read some of the real world examples cited in these posts. Why don’t you start your own company? Then you can call all the shots just like the “rich fat cats”. LOL

    • JC

      I can relate Wizzer. Done pretty well with my skills and initiative and as far as I’m concerned Unions are for those who want more than they have to offer in return.

  • jopa

    Patrick When you say you won and beat them meaning us taxpayers how much did you sue us for?

  • mark

    In a capitalistic society, a person has the right to form a union. Just as a business has the right to charge a price of his choosing. The problem in a government job, there are basically no supply and demand economics. You only have one place to buy the services from. What we need is balance so that the government employee gets a fair salary and the public gets its needed services. So let the employees have a union and then let all the negotiations go to a panel of arbitrators to decide the labor issues.

    • DaveH

      In a Free Society, people would indeed be able to join Unions. But those Unions could not legally exert coercion on other Free people. They could not harass customers of those companies who chose to ignore their demands. They could not harass people who chose to take the jobs that they turned up their noses at. And, it goes without saying, that they could not commit violence on others who refused to comply with their demands.

      • mark

        I agree, but the employer can not bring in Thugs to bust the Union picket lines and they can not bring in scab labor. It comes down to giving the working man a fair livable wage. Remember, people have to make money to spend money!

        • DaveH

          No, you don’t agree, because in a Free Society, the employers can spend their own money any way they want. If somebody is happy to work for the wages that the Unionists are spurning, then so be it.
          You see, you are already exhibiting Union coercion, by referring to decent people, who would be happy to make the living that the Unionists spurn, as “Scabs”.

        • JC

          The only thugs I’ve seen on Union lines..are Union thugs.

  • jopa

    John I am not really sure but I do know Fed Ex and UPS are going to merge and call themselves FED-UP.

    • john

      Whatever, maybe your president should take them over. I’m sure he’ll do a real good job runing either one of those companies, just like the our postal system.

  • Maryann

    As a memeber of a public union, I stand behind Scott Walker in Wisconsin, because I believe that our Republic is in trouble. I am the daughter of a World War II Vet, who fought to save our freedom and our Republic. I believe today, that our Unions are out to destroy our capital system, and socialize this nation, along with presiden Obama, and his administration. I’m an American first, Not a union Memeber first, and I will put country before collective bargaining.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Maryann, Thanks!__my Dad and his 3 brothers were all WWII vets too!

    • Eddie47d

      That’s nice Maryann and yes we should put Nation first. Yet will you honestly say you will fight corruption on all fronts? I hope so! Will you take on corrupt government officials? Are you fighting against outrageous CEO pay? Do you put as much effort into attacking Hedge Fund Managers who rake in billions and manipulate world economies? How about the price gougers (such as that one gas station in Orlando who charges $5.39 a gallon when the nations average is about $3.60). Oil companies effect our lifestyle and economy more than unions.Do you demand action against corporate polluters who effect our health which in turn causes higher healthcare costs? I understand putting country first but folks wearing suits and ties influence our economy far more than blue collar workers. Yet the emphasis seems to be in knocking those blue collar workers down another notch. Most unions are not corrupt or stealing from you yet that would be hard to believe listening to these comments.

      • DaveH

        You want to fight corruption, Eddie? Then downsize Government, and make it more transparent. As Government Grows, Corruption Flows. We can see that in our Southern neighbor Mexico.
        Why should she fight outrageous CEO pay? It is none of our business what a company pays their officers, unless we are owners of that company. It is none of our business what Hedge Fund Managers make, unless we are cusomers. It is none of our business what gas stations charge their customers, unless we are their customers, and I guess buying from them at ridiculous prices wouldn’t be too bright now would it?
        You don’t know squat about what Oil Companies must do to get their product from the ground into our gas tanks. You don’t know how many oil companies have gone under over the decades. Or how many others have struggled for years with losses in the bad times. We have been blessed with ridiculously low prices for their immense efforts for many decades.
        Do you demand action against Government meddlers who have caused our high healthcare costs, Eddie? Do you even make any effort to discover that fact?
        http://mises.org/daily/3586

        • john

          Where’s Eddie?

        • Eddie47d

          I believe I care far more than you do Dave H. and stop popping up those mises far right wing sites. I’m on to your poison pills. How about if I say “as Corporations grow corruption flows”. You’ve become hateful at times so should I become the same with you. It seems so.

          • DaveH

            I love it when you show your true colors, Eddie. Thank you.

          • JC

            Mises? Far right?
            Um, no eddie…it’s just sensibility and fact.
            Which to mentally disturbed Liberals is probably far right…
            or maybe signs of an alien invasion…who knows with you people any more?

      • meteorlady

        So Exxon makes a 3% profit and the the federal, state, county and city governments place upwards to $.15 to $.40 per gallon on the gas we purchase? That’s fair? And the extra money doesn’t go for roads, it goes in the general fund and our road and interstates are slowing deteriorating while we pay for welfare cheats and illegals.

        • Vigilant

          Federal Excise Tax alone is 18.4 cents per gallon.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    Not sure if everyone knew this or not;

    “After weeks of political wrangling, Wisconsin Republicans used a procedural maneuver to push through a bill ending collective bargaining for public workers (AP). Within hours, thousands of protestors crowded the capital in Madison.”

    So its done!

    • john

      Good job Scott Walker, now is a good time for them to take a vacation from the Captial. Until the protestor/thugs leave that is.

      It’s just amazing how the Dems could leave the State the way they did when there was work to be done. What a bunch of cowards.

      • Eddie47d

        I thought it was only Democrats who used backdoor politics? Wrong on that one!

        • john

          Yeah, they pulled a page right out of the Democrat’s playbook and used it against them.

        • DaveH

          Heaven forbid that they should do without the politicians who refused to be present to do their jobs. That is downright unUnion of them.

        • JeffH

          …seems pretty obvious the Dems in Wisconsin weren’t interested in fullfilling their obligation to their constituents and chose to “run & hide” from the issue rather than face it heard on, as they should have done. Whether you think Walker was right or wrong, the Wisconsin Democrats did not fullfill their obligation to the people.

          Here is why. The missing Wisconsin Senate Democrats count on those in the public sector as a key funding source for their campaigns.
          Public-employee unions and individual government workers have contributed at least $344,000.
          http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/117078618.html

          • Eddie47d

            That is close to what the Koch’s donated to Republicans throughout Wisconsin. Outside money talks and bullsh*t walks….and more B.S. from Jeff.

          • JeffH

            eddie, you really got your panties in a bunch today. You can’t refute anybody but you sure can get that foul mouth running…Yup!

            Like a good Liberal Eddie is there!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            eddie47d, Could it be your Union Budz got some bad press today??__Ya know eddie, I too. am a lil’ sick of you liberals throwing figures around about CEO pay on private companies, Oh Beat Down the Rich man, the Rich are the devil__

            You Libs have NOTHING left to go on, Wisconsin is winning for they’re taxpayers right now and your afraid its gonna spread and it will!!!!__ so to keep the ball rolling, you jump on the guys fortunate enough to provide us jobs!__Right now you and your Union Cronies are losing the game, so the whole damn lot of ya’s, both on this site, and in the protests in Wisconsin, are acting like a bunch of two year olds in temper tantrum!_

            -I don’t remember the Tea Party People crawling through the windows in the White House, when OBAMA CARE WAS PASSED, NOR Did we throw Death Threats around, likes being done in Wisconsin, just because we didn’t get our way. When Obama care passed, they never had to drag us or anyone out of the chamber bodily because we were too stupid to leave when asked!__Your true colors are showing, you and you liberal Union cronies claim civility, but you lie, and the proofs in the pictures!___Get over it!

            http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/10/police-remove-protesters-wisconsin-capitol/

          • Eddie47d

            Obama didn’t have to worry about that he has too much security.Now if all the threats and attacks on the Internet including this site were real he would have been a dead man 2 years ago.

  • Linda

    I don’t think anyone really knows how bloated the gov’t is. My son worked as a temp in a gov’t mail room. This mail room serviced one small three story building. They employed eight workers plus two supervisors, PLUS two temp workers and were looking to hire two more permanent employees. They did not deliver mail to the building but only sorted it and the different departments retrieved their mail from the mail room. And, as you can imagine, the two temp employees did ALL of the work. The rest of the staff sat around all day BSing. The stealing was rampant.

    By contrast, I worked for a hospital system that had three 250 bed hospitals. For all three hospitals there were only two mail room employees. Not only did these employees deliver the mail to each department the also ran the copy room, copying reams and reams of paper everyday.

    Another example: I worked for a public utilities company. For a 13 story building they had one mail room employee.

    This just disgusts me.

  • MargotAmerican

    “Government-employee unions have vastly more power than do private-sector unions because the entities they work for are typically monopolies.”
    Way to shoot yourself in the foot in the first paragraph. Why punish the individual workers for corruption that these monopolies are responsible for? People need their unions to protect them from the greed of executives at the top- private and public entities alike. This debate (at least in Wisconsin) is not about balancing the budget- the Republicans proved that last night when they ignored the law stating there must be a quorum to have a vote (also common sense), and pushed through a new form of the bill that omitted fiscal issues to abolish collective bargaining. Do not punish the American people for their honest hard work. The greedy money-mongers at the top must answer for the corruption in this country. If you disagree explain to me how it makes sense that corporations pulled in their largest profits in decades starting in 2009, yet unemployment in this country is rising higher than it has in the last three recessions.
    Bottom line here- whatever the elected officials personally want- is that elected officials are voted into offices to represent their constituents- the American people, the voters, US!. Wisconsin clearly demonstrates that Scott Walker and co. are betraying the offices they have been elected to by simply ignoring the fact that what they are trying to accomplish is NOT WANTED by thousands of people in their state. Not to mention the fact that the due process of Wisconsin law was completely violated last night.
    Don’t believe me? Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCCkDw4yvM
    By the way, I believe these people protesting are Americans first … keep in mind that their liberties have been grossly violated and snatched from them. Would you not protest if the government suddenly snatched something highly valued from you? Think about the principle of how this was handled. The means by which the bill passed could translate into any arena. Would you not go protest if your pension was suddenly gone in a puff of smoke, on the whim of a group of your elected officials? Your house seized with no explanation? What if a legislator with an extreme agenda pushed through a different bill that did upset you, that directly and personally affected you? Whether we agree or not if collective bargaining is a good thing or bad, let’s remember that the bottom line is that some government officials have usurped their powers and privileges before our very eyes and this should not go without consequence…it would not be nice to see this kind of thing happen again, and perhaps next time directly affect you or me. Support your fellow American people, hold the government accountable for their responsibilities and privileges- that’s what they are there for- to represent US, the American people.

    • DaveH

      Oh here we go again. A Liberal is going to label us as Greedy for not wanting to pay outlandish wages to her compatriots, but of course her cohorts are not Greedy for wanting to extract those outlandish wages from us.

    • meteorlady

      Those teachers and administrators in the Wisconsin are making double triple and quadruple what the average wage earner in that state makes. That’s greed – plain and simple.

  • john

    Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Republicans needing a quorum vote. How the hell are they supposed to have one when the cowardly Dems are hiding out in another state????

    You people are something else.

    • MargotAmerican

      What would you expect the Dems to do when the Republicans refused to even discuss changes to the bill?

      • DaveH

        Good for them. If they really wanted to accomplish things, they should have just privatized most of the services.

      • American Citizen

        I would expect the Dems to stay there and do their jobs. IF they were in the private sector, they’d have been fired, which is what the voters should do to them the next election. They were too cowardly to cast a no vote. The Republicans are doing what they were elected to do.

        • MargotAmerican

          Well, their job is to represent their constituents and if they only way to do that is to prevent a vote from happening then they are doing their jobs.

          • JC

            Actually it’s more a case of the Communists representing the other Communists have run off to hide in the face of reality (there is no money. So they chose to slide under a rock like the invertebrates they truly are.

    • JeffH

      john, and hiding out in Illinois to boot! Hmmm, Obama’s from Illinois…naw, just a coincidence…or NOT!

  • john

    What if a legislator with an extreme agenda pushed through a different bill that did upset you, that directly and personally affected you?

    Doesn’t obama do this all the time?????????

    • MargotAmerican

      I can’t say that I am proud of Obama either. I believe there is extreme corruption going on in all parties and all levels of government. Nobody can vote straight party ticket anymore. These days it’s like having to choose the lesser of two evils most of the time. But it is disgusting how the government keeps stuffing the problems THEY created down OUR throats, whether we be Republican, Democrat, Independent, Libertarian, from Wisconsin, New York, Texas, etc. We elected all of them to represent US, and I can’t disagree with you, there are way too many politicians usurping their power, playing into greed’s hands, and as a result hurting us and they clearly don’t give a d**n about it.

      • john

        I agree, that’s why I’m an Independent and I do not vote along party lines. They cumulatively have created a real mess.

    • meteorlady

      Yes health care….. as a small business owner it will cost me more and more money for my employee sponsored health care plan. It has already risen 17% as a result of the “added mandated coverage in the new health care bill”. That means I can raise my prices (not smart in a down economy), lay off two people (I need them right now), make my employees pitch in for some of the cost (they need money too), or just stop providing health care. Nice choices right?

      • bob wire

        are they getting better coverage even though it to be mandated?

        I think just about everyone experienced an increase, but few received less coverage, at least as I understand it.

  • chuckb

    margotmerican “What would you expect the Dems to do when the Republicans refused to even discuss changes to the bill?”

    isn’t that what happened when the healthcare bill was passed by the bolsheviks??

  • http://msn.com Wizzer

    Just look at these union thugs in WI – vandalizing, menacing, and now Gov. Walker is getting death threats! If the Tea Party was doin stuff like this Obama would call out the National Guard!

  • ONTIME

    Ayn Rand, Ronald Reagan and Maggie Thatcher…..Socialism works just fine until you run out of other peoples money.

    The government unions are now in the midst of running out of tax payer money because the tax payers have been taxed enough and the money went for naught…..Reality comes to the forefront.

    • mark

      What is socialism? If providing people, decent shelter, food, healthcare and education, which are the basic rights of every human being when they can not provide these service for themselves then call me a socialist. I do not believe the citizens of the USA want to walk outside and see the elderly thrown out of resthomes, people starving and no public education for children and no emergency room care for the uninsured. Well, maybe that won’t bother Greeedy Conservatives!

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Those are rights only if you work for them. I do not wish to see anyone who paid into the system thrown out, thats different thats an entitlement they WORKED & PAID for. Big Difference.
        Education- Professional service not a right
        health Care-Professional service not a right
        Shelter- Its what you work for- Its not a right
        Food- Its what you work for- Its not a right

        You have the RIGHT to LIFE-LIBERTY-Persuit of HAPPINESS

        I guess the “Persuit” part got ys huh? See people have to WORK for what they want, no where is it written that these things are or should be handed to you at SOMEONE ELSES Expence UNLESS they FREELY (Liberty) give you that item (Money.)

        I Challenge you to look up one word in the Dictionary: PLUNDER

        Thats what the Govt Does because if you refuse to submit to taxation they take it all by FORCE
        Then Look up RIGHT and you will find that you do have rights to those things you wish all to have, AFTER you WORK for them no one has the right to take your RIGHTS & PROPERTY.
        So see…we both agree….You have the right to work for those things and give them away if you want, I have my right to keep them if I want. NO WHERE can you tell me it is written by higher doctrine that I HAVE to share.

        • Frank

          I have a solution for the welfare issue. Let every american have one “free” kid. After that they eaither let the government tie their tubes or they are on their own. Sort of like China’s population control. The way I figure it, if you want to take from the government, you don’t get to decide things such as how many kids you want to have. Right now the system set up by the Dems keeps people captive. It sets them up for permanent dependency on the government. It is cradle to grave welfare. Born into it and die before ever getting out of it.

          • bob wire

            “I have a solution for the welfare issue. Let every American have one “free” kid. After that they either let the government tie their tubes or they are on their own. Sort of like China’s population control.”

            Playing the devils advocate here; you are considering that the government to attack the unborn. ~ That make for bad press.

            If you are to go that far, get proactive and consider a bounty.

      • DaveH

        Those are not rights, Mark. Show me anywhere in the Constitution where you are given the ‘right’ to ride on other peoples’ shoulders.
        What next — a right to have a computer and get on the Internet? Oh, I forgot, that’s already been proclaimed — Net Neutrality.
        The bottom line, Mark, is that every country that has fully embraced Socialism has had a failed economy. You can get a feel for what Big Government does to current-day countries by this ranking of countries based on their level of regulation:
        http://heritage.org/index/Ranking

        Do you really want to doom your fellow citizen to poverty? Are you just naive, or are you feeding at the trough and just don’t care?

      • Carlucci

        Mark, the church used to be in charge of helping the truly disabled, the elderly, and children. There are plenty of ministries today from all denominations who help people in many ways. Charity comes from churches and welfare comes from the government. The government has no business handing out welfare, when ministries can help able bodied people get back on their feet.

    • MargotAmerican

      Hmm, well Ronald Reagan DID say the following in a Labor Day address in 1980:

      “These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland … They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”

      http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/03/ronald-reagan-where-free-unions-and-collective-bargaining-are-forbidden-freedom-is-lost/

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Seems not applicable. The Unions here are definitely NOT free.

        Regan by far was better then the rest, but he still allowed the Federal Reserve to rape the American people. Granted he took a bullet for wanting to audit the Gold in Fort Knox, so he must have pi$$ed off one of the Globalist Elites.

  • http://mitchmathias@att.net mlmbttm1961

    intersting read but i dont see any facts to support your points

  • chuckb

    day of infamy for the democratic wisc. union, day of rejoicing for most americans. we see the union thugs getting what they dish out. walker probably guaranteed his next election. i haven’t seen a republican with this kind of backbone since reagan. if mexifornia only had someone like him.

    • MargotAmerican

      With ideology like that, you’d probably be happier in a country like North Korea.
      Backbone isn’t the issue, it’s denying his people fair representation.

      • DaveH

        Margot,
        It’s your kind that are pushing us toward the kind of economy North Koreans have, where the needs of the many are shoved to the side to service the desires of the few.

      • JC

        Margot , if you and the rest of your herd want “group” representaion and “group” rights, YOU should move to N. Korea and give it a try.
        The United States is a nation of free and liberated Sovereign Individuals. Wherein each “individuals” rights are gauranteed. Why the hell should I as an individual be stuck with a bill for a lousy second rate product that no one can afford and no one would buy if given the choice? I don’t expect you to understand…

  • JR

    Thomas James DiLorenzo (born August 8, 1954) is an American economics professor at Loyola University Maryland.[1] He is an adherent of the Austrian School of Economics. He is a senior faculty member of the Ludwig von Mises Institute and an associated scholar of the Abbeville Institute.[2] He was formerly an affiliated scholar of the now-defunct League of the South Institute, the research arm of the pro-secession League of the South[3] (though he has denied any lasting affiliation, noting that he only gave a few lectures there shortly after its founding[4][5]). He holds a Ph.D. in Economics from Virginia Tech.[1].

    DiLorenzo has devoted much effort to scholarly historical revisionism, focusing on what has been called “the Lincoln Cult”[6] as a political and historical phenomenon. In the same vein, he has spoken out in favor of the secession of the Confederate States of America, defending the right of these states to secede in a view similar to that of abolitionist Lysander Spooner.[7] He has also criticized the crediting of the New Deal for ending the Great Depression.[8]

    DiLorenzo lectures widely, and is a frequent speaker at Mises Institute events.

    • Vigilant

      Hey Dude, source your work. If you quote Wikipedia, give ‘em credit.

    • Vigilant

      “He has also criticized the crediting of the New Deal for ending the Great Depression.[8]”

      Do you really consider that a put-down?

      No serious economist today buys into the myth that FDR’s New Deal cured the Depression. In fact, it’s been shown that his policies both lengthened and deepened the Depression. The world was pulled out of the Depression by WWII, not socialist economic policies.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear JR,

      As to your item [2], Mr. DiLorenzo has never been “affiliated” with the League of the South, and Mr. DiLorenzo refutes that statement with a cogent argument (see the link in my post above).

      As to your item [6], Mr. DiLorenzo’s “historical revisionism” (so-called) is well-researched historical fact and he regularly debates “mainstream” historians on the subject… and wins. He has written that the Southern States were correct Constitutionally when they seceded, a point on which I and many others agree with him.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

  • Gordon in Texas

    “Thus, it is almost guaranteed that government-employee unions will challenge in court the attempted dismissal of all bureaucrats save the occasional ones who are accused of actual criminal behavior.”

    Not quite true. I know of a few cases where government employees caught in a criminal act during work hours in the office were not fired; only transferred to a new location. And their past will be buried.

  • chuckb

    margotamerican, typical union mentality. your democrat bolsheviks that ran to illinois are the ones that denied your henchmen the reoresentation. remember who lost last november, now it’s the peoples right to win and they are being fairly represented.

  • craig Sacramento CA

    If you really want to see what the outcome is when state government is owned lock,stock and barrel by the unions, look no further than California which is totally in the stranglehold of the big unions. Many of our cities are in the same predicament as they too are owned by the big unions. We have gone from top ranking to the very bottom in all aspects with the unions owning everything from the governor down to the state legislator plus a great many city and town governments. Our schools are a total mess and our infrastructure is crumbling, we are 28 billion in the hole on our annual budget and our state pension has 500 billion in unfunded liability, also need I mention that our unemployment is over 12 percent and thanks to our business unfriendly attitude companies and people are leaving the state by the thousands. Taxes are also very high. A great climate out here, but everything else is LOUSY! Thinking about moving out here? Do yourself a favor and forget about it!

    • JeffH

      craig, being a fellow Californian, I followed the elections closely.

      A new independent expenditure committee backed by labor groups and othe major donors came together to boost Jerry Brown and other Democratic candidates across the state. They had pledged up to $40 million to boost Brown’s gubernatorial ambitions.

      One of those committees, which is called California Working Families 2010, had a budget of more than $20 million. Level the Playing Field 2010, the second committee, claimed to have a budget upwards of $20 million and was focused on attacking Meg Whitman.

      Once elected, Gov. Jerry Brown immediately removed a California State Teachers’ Retirement System board appointee who helped author a controversial study that criticized the state’s largest public pension funds.

      By endearing himself to the Unions early on, he’s tainted his ability to make it seem as if his proposed budget is anything other than the usual pandering to the union lobbyists.

    • Nail Buster

      do away with the IRS. You can only collect taxes through fear and intemadation. The printing industry alone, how many millions a year?? The Tax Attorneys, how many thousand make a living off of this mess?? The Accounts, the paid tax prepares and on and on it goes. abolish the present tax code, NOT AS CHANCE IN HELL ! NO politishan would ever vote for it. With the present code you are controled how and what they want you spending your money on, size of house, type of car, appliances, (give special tax breaks for incentives for you to buy.) Electric cars- ever wonder how far it will go in the winter with the heater on, Radio, lights, tempture in the teens, wonder if it will get out of the driver way? and what about ROAD TAXES , state and fed, No road Tax on electricy, yet.

      • Patty

        In January 2011, motor gasoline taxes averaged 48.1 cents per gallon and diesel fuel taxes averaged 53.1 cents per gallon.[8] For the first quarter of 2009, the mean state gasoline tax is 27.2 cents per US gallon, plus 18.4 cents per US gallon federal tax making the total 45.6 cents per US gallon (12.0 ¢/L). For diesel, the mean state tax is 26.6 cents per US gallon plus an additional 24.4 cents per US gallon federal tax making the total 50.8 cents. There are also a few states that charge sales tax on top of the excise taxes and the retail price. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax
        Minnesota’s gasoline tax stands at 27.2 cents per gallon
        Wisconsin 30.9. So basically, 80 cents per gallon goes to taxes.

    • MargotAmerican

      Part of the reason why Cali has problems like that is the Proposition that was passed in the 70s that restricted property tax rates to only increasing by a maximum of 1% of the year’s previous tax bill. It could only go up by a higher rate if the house was sold which caused less turn over in the state which caused property values to soar because there weren’t as many homes for sale in relationship to the number of buyers.

      As far 500 billion goes…there is no way everyone in the state workforce is going to retire at the same time. So the state won’t ever have to pay out 500 billion dollars.
      not that many people or businesses are leaving california.
      The state income tax maxes out at 79K of income. If it was run against all income like the federal tax there would be no budget hole.
      Things like infrastructure are more expensive in cali because of earthquakes.
      California overall is in a better financial position than Texas because when they go to cut their budget they can actually cut some things. Texas’s budget is lean and unless you want to lay off teachers there’s nothing you can do.

      • DaveH

        Yep, well-stated Margot. Politicians would not have any problems if only they could take as much from the citizens as they desire.

      • JeffH

        I believe it was the infamous Prop 13.

      • JC

        A dictators dream…unlimited taxation.

  • Mike Severt

    Attention!!!

    Ohio was just sold a pack of lies and now has passed the #5 issue.
    With a budget three Govenors back that was in balance. With the same unionized employee situation as now and suddenly this will not work!
    We are bankrupted because of the unionism problem!!!! Doesn’t anyone smell a dead rat in this mess of lies we are being told!!

    Do you remember when Gilligan became Governor? All the lies we were told until they got through the State Income Tax!! Her we are again!

  • David

    There was a reason the founders of America left England. It was excessive taxation, onerous mandates, supporting the elite, and repressive social policies. Where are you going to go if you leave America for the same reason? China, Brazil, India, WAKE THE HELL UP PEOPLE. America as it was founded is the last hope for freedom and prosperity on the planet. America is the last hope for humanity…!WAKE THE HELL UP. Katie Couric, cute as she is, doesn’t care about you.

    • bob wire

      David do you really believe an over paid middle class is the root of Americas problem today? I was thinking is was the 40,000 welfare hand outs, social services and 60,000 Mexicans wetbacks a few months ago.

      Do you really feel 11 years of misspending money collected in taxes from the American people that is now lost, gone forever, never to return has had no effect on our economy today?

  • David

    Unions have no place in public service, just ask FDR. A liberal Icon.

  • David

    Is there a law against forced political donations? Because that is what unions do.

  • JOSEPH LANGLOIS

    In my case, working in the career I was trained for required belonging to a union. During the four years of study, no significant references were made about the true realities of the required union. Just minor passing comments about the necessary union. After graduation I tried to be a member and conform, but it was impossible for me to do so. Just watching the antics in the union hall turned my stomach. It required leaving the work I truly wanted in order to get away from the union. I now live in a right to work State and will always volunteer to help defeat any union.

  • chuckb

    craig sac, i also live in calif. not far from you. having been in business for years i appreciate what you say. there is nothing on the horizon that will improve california. unions have destroyed the education system in this state. the environmentalist have destroyed the
    business culture. the funny part of it the enviro’s thought they were creating a paradise, our parks and trails would be a haven for them to enjoy and the wildlife would abound, little bunnies and birds would run and fly around as they walked and ran through the forest. the state ran out of money due to their taxation and enviro rulings on business, they can’t keep up the trails and their are so many pot growers it’s not safe to track thru their supposedly pristine forest.
    moonbeam brown (gov.) is trying to figure out where he went wrong last time he reigned in sacramento. the people who voted him in are concerned now that they remember he was once before a failed gov back in the seventies. the mexicans are planning on annexing the state back to mexico if they can figure out how to keep the welfare checks coming. the blacks are planning on moving to kenya with barry after he gets kicked out next year. so if we wait and be patient, california will be open for homesteading by 2013.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Look, truthfully, here is the way it is. I, and others, are all for everyone making a good wage and getting ahead in life. The whole problem here is this. The government makes package plans with these unions, and has for years, and they pay them with OUR tax payer money. The problem is, they have made promises they cant keep, and now the money isnt there to pay all these giant pensions and stuff, let alone to keep paying them and entering into wage and pension agreements that they cannot keep. Having worked for unions for 13 years, I have learned to despise them and the bad horrific things they do to companies. But, let me say this. If some has worked all his life, under the pretense of collection a certain amount of pension, and has put in the time and years according to the agreement he or she was under, then they should have that pension given to them as they have earned it, whether union or non-union, it doesnt matter. If youve earned it brother, youve earned it. But now, as they enter into new contracts, steps must be taken, as they have finally smartened up to realize they cannot make promises they cannot keep. It is time for all you people crying about this stuff, to realize you need to pay your portions of insurance benefits and you all need to live in the real world like the rest of us. If you dont want that job, I guarantee you, there are a lot of people out of work that would be willing to step in and take the wages you dont want. We all are replaceable in the jobs we do, so dont be so proud. We all want the states and the Federal Government to balance the budgets. We have all called for years for them to be responsible and balance the budget, and now that they are, the left is crying unfair. We have all called for years to secure the border, and now that Arizona is taking steps to curb illegal immigration, the left is crying unfair. Sorry people, we cant have it both ways. Either be responsible and balance the budgets and secure the borders, or it seems to be on the left and not worry about either. That is what I am seeing, and it is clearly evident that this is what is going on today. You all on the left have fully revealed to us all, just who you really are. So stop crying.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    It is such an unfortunate situation. It is as though we have to attack good teachers to punish bad ones. I would like to point out that “government” is an institution dedicated to the people and teachers are an example. I do not desire Unions with too much power. However I feel we need good schools, quality staff to work them, and quality books to teach kids and teens with. As such I can sympathize with those who desire more funding for schools. I disagree on issues of funding for government workers versus private sector. After all what private sector job is comparable to teaching the younger generation about History or Math or Science. I feel such jobs are an important service and need to be recognized as unique. Second on matters of greater input less output I tend to equate that to incompetent use of funding rather then funding itself. I believe poorer schools should receive more and standards should be made to ensure proper use of such funding. Finally I would like to call attention to Mr. DiLorenzo’s final statement. The issue I have is that while Mr. DiLorenzo criticizes some for equating people of a particular political or economic belief to being somehow morally or intellectually inferior or for painting a personal view of a particular ideology he himself does it by saying that welfare has destroyed work ethic and the family. Such a statement is a personal opinion of welfare and using it is no better than people who denounce opponents of welfare as no better than haters of the poor.

    • DaveH

      Then get behind voucher systems, Jeremy. Private schools have consistently outperformed public schools. If you really care for the children, then you will research this matter and join those of us who want parental choice and voucher systems.
      If you deny that private schools outperform public schools, then vouchers should please you, because once and for all, the parents will be able to see that you were right. So what have you to lose?

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Daveh, Correct!__My husband had the good fortune to go to private school til the fifth grade. When he went to public school and was tested, the curriculum he had in private school was a year ahead of the public schools._ Private schools do definitely out perform public schools on all accounts no doubt about it!

      • Frank

        Be careful of the voucher system because all of a sudden all the deadbeats who would never pay for the school on their own will want to attend too and then the private schools start sliding downhill. And if the government is handing out the vouchers then the schools will have to accept everyone.

        • American Citizen

          Since we all have to pay the school tax, even though we don’t have children in school, the money should follow the child. It should make no difference where the child goes to school, the government should have no say. As long as the parents can verify the child is going to a school, that’s all the government needs to know just to make sure there is no fraud. The government keeps overreaching when it comes to the Constitution and its curbs on what government can do.

          • Raggs

            Am wrote.

            that’s all the government needs to know just to make sure there is no fraud.

            Very funny :)… The government makes damm sure there is no fraud? Oxymoron don’t ya think?

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Dave on vouchers I am unsure. As a product of public school I always speak up on its benifits and advantages so I dont like the idea of competition between private and public. While I dont doubt it might give incentive to schools to perform or produce better students an issue I have is what standards while constitute a better student. Does that mean more graduates, better average scores or smaller dropout rates. My only desire is for schools to produce educated people who can contribute to society and can feel self assured and sufficient. From personal experience I know getting all A’s dosen’t make one good at understanding a subject. Also being great in Middle or High School dosen’t necessarily make one great in College or beyond. However in the end I love and respect Public Education and advocate it above all. If vouchers will improve our countries educational system im all for it. In the meantime I support the public system, I want standards to stop incompetent teachers but I want those with passion and interest to have every tool they need to get their job done.

        • DaveH

          You just made a very effective argument against Public Schools.

        • http://Verizon Bud G.

          Jeremy:

          The blame should not be laid solely on the teachers although I agree there are teachers who are ineffective. What I have seen here in Florida is the system passing students to another grade who can’t read or write a sentence with competence. We also have the code among students that it is not cool to be smart and do well in school. You are a nerd if you excel.

          I wish there was a way to make students understand what their life will be like when they do poorly or drop out of school. In these times, we have college graduates with masters degrees working in fast food until the economy improves. What are the prospects for a person who didn’t complete high school?

          I think the Department of Education is presently acting like a monkey in a room full of rocking chairs with their policies. It should be reined in or eliminated and it would eliminate one ineffective part of the Federal Government. The unions have created a top heavy administrative staff and problems for our teachers. I support the teachers but not the ones providing guidance or control over what they do in the classroom. One only has to attend a class to see what they are dealing with.

  • Raggs

    It’s funny that the very ones that bitch about = rights for all are the same ones that soak the pockets of the rich union bosses and then complain about the rich getting richer while the crybabies have all of the benefits and retirement plans that the average taxpayer funds for their sorry asses!

  • Slick

    The time is over for finger pointing.It’s like a chess game that we already made the wrong move in. Things have to change or our children WILL PAY! Common sense and tought decisions is the only answer. OH, integrity and Honor also. Our children might thank us, some day. OR HATE US. Your move!!

  • Ridge Runner

    You can talk all you want to,blame who you want tobut the problem is the corupt politicans that these created entitlement zombies keep electing to office,these same type of people keep geting because the people have not been doing their patriotic duty of voting and paying attention to what the politicans were doing and what they wanted to do. when you leave the hen house ungusrded then you are going to loose your chickens.So a lot of the blame can be layed to the voters that didn’t vote.we the people have got to do better if we want to save our country.We may have to do it by force like what is happening in the middle east.There is a lot of changes that will have to be made in our fed, gov if we are to surive.these gov unions,gov entitlement programs and a lot of the fed govhas to go.we need to get this gov under control.

  • pattty

    If you want to see what WI state employees made in 2009, go to this site:http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/dataondemand/33532074.html?appSession=092868714401001
    I LOL when I saw that the Health Services people all make over 200k plus all of the psychiatrists put in over 20k in regular OT except one. How crazy is that state? Oh ya, they got Jeffrey & don’t forget Eddy G.
    Very interesting site.

  • http://com i41

    Raggs, you nailed that right on the mark. When progressive pukes get to going off the rails about not blaming the past on anyone or organization. It is always spoken by a soros socailists onumnutts supporter, who hate to admit unions in any government or business is a plan hust waiting to go into massive failure. Unions are one skill wonders who are worthless to solve something out of their jobdescriptions. Worked with to many of them and been their supervisor. All are program mental midgit morons at best.

  • pattty

    Here is another great site.
    http://www.sheboyganpress.com/article/99999999/SHE0110/80514174/DataMine-2009-Public-employee-salaries?appSession=227286872386463
    Still looking for those elusive teachers salaries. Kind of like looking for democrate lawmakers in WI. Now remember, these are 2009 wages.

    • bob wire

      That was a good site Patty,

      Fire Marshall at the top at 101,000

      14 spots down to 75,000.

      You think that is too much? I suppose that depends on the size of Hesheville! or whatever it’s was named.

      For Fort Worth Texas, that might be a wee high, but not much.

      How much do you think these people should make? bearing in mind they are paying Federal earnings tax.

      At a 101,000.00 at 26% that’s 26,260.00 in Federal taxes , that a net of $74,7400.00 per year for the top Dude or Dudet Patty.

      That’s not exactly stealing.

      So much for the teacher that’s making 75000.00 per year.

      • Patty

        I don’t know. How much should a pencil pusher make. He doesn’t fight fires at that level. It is not so much their salaries that irk me. It is their unfunded benefits that have been hidden in the contracts that are taking us down. They have kicked the can as far as it will go. I don’t know about you, but in the private sector I have to pay 7.65% into social security that I will never see, plus I run my own business so dbl. that. Plus, I have to save whatever I have left over for my actual retirement, which is not going to happen @ 50 like them. Already saw that go by.
        The fact is, you cannot work for 25-30 years, retire @ 50 and collect for 30 years @ 75% of pay. Unsustainable. And it is only now that we are figuring that out. We have committed to the ones who have 20 years or more in, but going forward, level that playing field.

        • bob wire

          Hm? Well a Fire Marshall is the top of the food chain , much like a Sheriff Patty.

          They really don’t have to even push pencils, they have a staff to do that. They are “Directors” and direct operations, interface with Major, Chief of Police, County Commissioner, State people and take responsibility for not embarrassing their boss with any issue of Fire safety that come their way thu mishaps or government agencies.

          Actually it’s a sizable job.

          Do you enjoy watching CSI? or Hawaii 5 O or Adam 12 or Judge Wappener Court? They are but a few that a Fire Marshall might but required to serve besides getting little kitties down from places they have climbed.

          I’m self employed as well, and while I use to be quit busy, I don’t make much any more either. I’m staying just above the poverty line.

          I don’t feel other’s making less around me will help me in any way.

          It got so bad there for a few years I basically close the door, nailed them shut and moved to Mexico where everyone is poor, hired out as an engineer/deckhand on a utility 137 ft. utility boat.

          Mexico is to mean to live in today.

          It’s been tough for most everyone that works Patty.

          • Patty

            I know all too well about them. Married to a Captain in the Sheriffs Dept in the cities for many, many years. Like he said, I get paid for what I know, not what I do. Typical gov’t. employee. I saw more action managing 7-11 Stores in the “hood” for 3 years than he saw in 30 years. Like I tell people who complain about police officers giving them a ticket or arresting them. Whatever you did you deserved it because they are the laziest people out there and don’t do anything unless they are a threat to the general public or they will get sued or lose their pension for non action. In defense, a lot of that has to do with their leadership not wanting to be in the spot light or scrutinized. Others: Don’t blog me with all the whoever died in the line of duty stuff. They are the exception, not the rule. 40 degrees today, get out the bike!!!

          • Patty

            PS: Absolutely LOVE Mazatlan!

      • meteorlady

        In a strong labor market an employer should and will pay what the market will bear. Since we have let millions of under educated immigrants and illegals into this country our wage scales have gone down considerably and will continue to do so because we now have a glut of workers. Plus our government lets corporations petition to bring them in on work visas.

        So, if you plan on ever making decent wages again, you might just want to start a writing campaign to your representatives and ask them the enforce our immigration laws and reform the ones that let these under educated poor into our country. Then ask them to lower the corporate tax rates so that we will be a place corporations want to come back to.

  • http://msn DQuiney

    the federal reserve needs to be abolished. cut down a tree, if it’s not toilet paper or writing paper u paint it green and loan it to the govt. w/interest.
    the constitution says the CONGRESS haS the POWER TO COIN(PRINT) MONEY.
    the federal reserv is a PRIVTE ENTERPRISE. the BIGGEST ponzi scheme.
    THINK U DUMMIES

  • http://msn DQuiney

    the federal reserv is not part of the federal govt.

    use your computer to know the truth.

    why is the federal govt. borrowing money from privat bankers w/ interest?

    canthe federal govt. print it’s own money?

    u so called constitutionalist r banker plants.
    everyt country thay had a central bank is corrup[ted!
    americam WILL never be what it was suppose to be FREE people UNTIL we get rid of the bankers.

    think—–it’s not illegal YET

    THIS WB SITE better start talking abouty the FEDERAL RESERVE

    • Patty

      They are borrowing from banks because they ran out of ink???

  • Henry Ledbetter

    Is it time for good hard working teachers, firemen, policemen and other public works employees to pull out of the national unions and request that national union dues no longer be taken out of their paychecks? I know of one that did exactly that today and no matter the outcome for him, he could no longer send funds to leaders that support tyranny. For him, I happen to know he could no longer go against his conviction to take a stand for that which is right. I pray many other public employees will follow his lead and send a strong message to the union bosses that their corruption and rebellion will no longer be subsidized by the rank and file. I for one am proud of the stand he has taken.as he knows it very well may cost him but if need be he is willing to pay that price…

    • bob wire

      maybe so Henry, but I’d think that it would be for them to do and not be forced on to them.

      There is many issues at hand to consider such a move, while I hold no strong views, I am a professional. I came up through the rank and file , hating it all the way. But it taught me something that would be hard to learn any other way.

      41 and half years ago, I thought I knew everything there was to know and all these old men was just slowing me down and getting in my way. These “old men” made me the man I am today, a professional that can shape, guide and direct young men that show promise, the love and desire to be the best they can be. They can stand tall and put food on their table as they watch their friend bump for one thing to another. There is so much to know.

      While I am no longer union, unions offer structure and tier; here is the broom and shovel and when you have proved master of them, we shall see how high you can count with your shoes on, you make your 90 day and you are considered family and every family has a mother and father to keep you on course. Mid level hire? there is structure and procedure.

      The point is, you don’t get to the top by friend or favor alone but by accumulated record and history.

      Can the private sector offer the same degree of committed professionalism at lower pay and little structure? Or is service to suffer? ~ Shinny trucks and spiffy matching uniforms may well “appear” as professionals, ~ but how will you truly know?

  • http://secondopinionpundits Michael

    This article is totally off base with mainstream facts. American labor was founded by unions since the early 1700s. Unions preserved labor scale with current market conditions for increased pay. The real reason congressional members want to expel unions for cheap second-rate labor and labor cost. Unions protect the worker from disadvantage and illegal hiring practice, discrimination, racism and sexism while increasing wages pushing safety and fair standard in workforce employment. Eliminating the unions will lower wages to substandard injecting minimum wage pay. States like Wisconsin extermination of the unions for the advancements to hire lower paid immigrants putting more money in politicians and big business pockets. Then Wisconsin will be forced to sign a “Right to Work Act like Florida’s which has the lowest wages per capital income across the nation. The right to work act provides the private and public sector, municipalities, state level jobs cheap wages that promotes hiring at will with no safety net for the common worker. This grants states to do what they dam well please.

    • Vigilant

      “Unions protect the worker from disadvantage and illegal hiring practice, discrimination, racism and sexism while increasing wages pushing safety and fair standard in workforce employment.”

      HORSEPUCKEY! Most of that’s covered by federal and state law.

  • Donna

    From someone who was born and raised in WI….(Been here 78 yrs)this is in reply to Gail and her comment about my Gov. You either just fell off of a turnip truck or your brain dead….The unions have destroyed, just about completely a once prosperous country and made it a third world country. Maybe you don’t know this but about 100 years ago there were no unions and no TAXES… There probaly were no taxes because the unions weren’t picking the workers pockets so they could buy politicans and we were the most prosperous country in the world. Go figure huh??? Then along came the greedy unions with thier crooked, greedy bosses and look where we are now. I don’t know about anyone else but “I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!!” While your at it I’ll have my money back too that I have been paying for other peoples ins and retirement. (I pay for my own. How about you?????

  • Harry

    What is wrong with applying Ronald Reagan’s plan of dealing with the air traffic controllers? I worked like a charm!

    • bob wire

      Did it really? ~ Well, I admit it sent a message to Ivan, “the old man will bite and it ain’t no bluff” which was very timely and important. But far as working Sir., that’s very debatable.

      My council for any union is to “always” accept a presidential directive. He’s the head cheese in the USA and you don’t make him ask you twice.

      Don’t allow these wonderful illusions of freedom and sugar plums dancing in your head get you in a serious bind.

  • bob wire

    “March 10, 2011 by Thomas J. DiLorenzo
    The Political Economy Of Government Employee Unions”

    “The main reason so many State and local governments are bankrupt, or on the verge of bankruptcy, is the combination of government-run monopolies and government-employee unions. Government-employee unions have vastly more power than do private-sector unions because the entities they work for are typically monopolies.”

    Mr. DiLorenzo,

    While I might disagree with it actually being the “main” reason, it is a major contributing fact. I understand the need for a powerful opening statement and you have indeed crafted one.

    Sir , our consumer base has dried up, having actually survived for the last 7 years or so primarily on credit, very little wealth transfer is taking place below the top 10 % of wage earners.

    400 people in this nation now own over 60% of the wealth and the only reason they might see any need to spend money is if they are offered secured high margins of return.

    You offer a good point in regards to government monopolizes.

    The problems we might face with privatizing is that, it will cost people more of the same thing, or the people will get less services then what they are presently getting while paying more.

    The reason for this is always hidden but very simple. ~ Government politicians playing the part of middle men and feathering their nest at the expense of the people being provides these services. It can be on the front end of the deal or the back end of the deal, it can be a “pay-me” as we play deal. But bottom line, we can’t seem to get rid of this political pork no matter what is say or promised and how hard we try.

    A few years back, we had a case where this private lockup for juveniles was being paid by the inmate per day. We found children that had been contained for over a year for minor misdemeanors purely because they were “Wednesday’s Children, were not missed and there was no one to protested. ~ This abuse was purely profit motivated.

    If this Privatization is to ever work, ~ White Collar Crime with need to vigorously enforced and indictment certain with more sever penlities. ~

    • bob wire

      OOps! forgive my typo’s ~ I missed a key and it posted before any proofing.

  • patrick

    How much does a typical small family sedan automobile cost today? How about in the $15 to $20,000 range. This is ridiculous! Why do we have to pay 20 grand for a car that is worth maybe $8 to 10 grand? UNIONS are the blame. Those human robots that work the assembly lines make around $75,000 a year plus benefits! Ford clears a profit of $15 to $20,000 on each F150 they sell! Most Govt and public employees make around $60 to $75,000 plus benefits. Are you seeing the pattern here folks? We have the unions screaming and complaining that if we don’t agree with what the unions want (higher wages and benefits) they will go on stike and shut down our Cities. Is it no wonder all those millions of jobs have been forced to go to where the labor costs are fair and all those billions of chinese people are working like little ants? And don’t forget about all the millions of Mexicans that sneak into America to WORK the jobs fat lazy Americans won’t get off their fat asses to do. Why can these Mexicans survive nicely on $10 to $15.00 an hour where as all the union jobs at $25 to $35 an hour continue to disapear? Thank you Unions for forcing all those good ” Made in America” products and their jobs to go overseas because you continue your demands of higher wages and benefits. There is the truth folks!

    • Patty

      It is not just the unions. It is also the gov’t. mandated items that are added regulations to vehicles that has driven the cost up. Just make sure you buy a car born on a Wed. Statisics say that is when the auto worker is most alert. Not hungover from the weekend, and most bowling leagues are on Thursday. :)

  • jopa

    Where do people get all the money to buy those cars that cost anywhere from 15 to 50 thousand dollars.They are everywhere.They are getting the money from jobs that pay wages inspired by unions.Where are they going?Driving around America has been one of the greatest freedoms enjoyed by Americans for decades, brought to you by the UAW.

    • Patty

      Credit baby, CREDIT. Living above their means just like the gov’t.

    • JC

      Brought to us by the UAW?
      The same bunch that gets 40 to 50 bucks an hour plus benefits to tighten lug nuts? The same bunch that helped bring down GM and Chrysler (along with irresponsible corporate royalty, granted).
      The same bunch that was in need of a bailout at the expense of everyone else?

      I can’t speak for anyone else, but I do pretty well. And after 35 years of hard work,I have all the toys…And Unions had NOTHING to do with it. Private personal motivations had EVERYTHING to do with it.

      Like I said…Unions are part of the overall problem. Too old, too fat, too lazy and too well fed. Time to go….

    • meteorlady

      Not sure about anyone else, but I got the money through hard work and education. I took advantage of every opportunity I had in order to get ahead. I didn’t ask for anything, did everything according to the rules and yet you believe that people like me somehow owe the rest. I don’t unless I feel like I WANT TO. That’s the point here. I do charity work in my community because I CHOOSE to do it of my own free will.

  • jopa

    Some have said the elections are coming lets take out the trash.At home here I took out the trash last week and there is just as much this week.As long as there are lobbyists in Washington your newly elected officials are going to turn into trash.They like their new job and the only way they can raise money for re-election is through these lobbyists.Our votes put them in office but the only way they can stay is take lobbyist money and do what the lobbying firms want and have to try and pacify you with some scheme like saying Oh I voted for this and that, knowing fullwell it would never pass for your benefit.Money talks and we walk.

  • jopa

    Patty: For most sad but true.

  • Brian Wilson

    I could write a book on city so called workers, because I used to be one. Punch in, or someone else will clock you if you don’t want to show up. Smoke a joint, go to breakfast, then hide and sleep off a hang over until lunch time. Go to the bar, smoke more dope. Play horse shoes or visit a prostitute / girlfriend. Use the city truck and gas to run personal errands, travel outside city limits go fishing or garbage picking. Punch out, unless you want time and a half or double time for doing the same as above. A crime is in progress for the tax payers of Livonia, MI.

    • Patty

      Keep laughing you walking poster child for the use of condoms.
      PRICHARD, Ala. — This struggling small city on the outskirts of Mobile was warned for years that if it did nothing, its pension fund would run out of money by 2009. Right on schedule, its fund ran dry.
      Here is the site if you are not too high to read the whole story. Probably would be beneficail to you. They no longer receive checks.
      http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/23/business/23prichard.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

  • jopa

    Brian Wilson; Good thing they got rid of you before it rubbed off on someone else.You need more than rehab.At least you are honest but not much else going for you.

    • Brian Wilson

      That was the status quo for all the union rank and file. I retired with full pension and benefits.

  • jopa

    Brian;I believe you, I have seen it many times when the government or even private industry do give pension benefits just to get rid of some of the trash they have collected over the years.

    • Brian Wilson

      You will have the privilage to pay for my retirement while I smoke weed and laugh at you. I am going to paint jopa on my trash can because of your foul rants.

      • Patty

        Not once we unite and withhold paying taxes. Then you can sit and watch the rubber check bounce.

  • jopa

    BW: It is sad when we the taxpayers in America have to pay for even workers retirement benefits when even they know they don’t deserve them.Please do paint my name on the outside of your trash cans and whenever you see that name remember that I am the one who thinks you belong on the inside of these receptacles of government waste.

  • Merl

    Re: Union Problems
    Big, bloated, corrupt, tyrannical, self-serving, biased, and lazy labor unions must be reformed or defeated. Unions turn workplaces toxic and prevent negotiations by iron-clad, non-negotiable, “negotiated” ones size fits all contracts. Restrictive collective bargaining agreements have now crept into federal government workplaces. Rigid union agreements always turn workplaces toxic. Union agreements discourage hard work, encourage mediocrity, and reward non-performance with rewards in the workplace for those who are loyal Democrats; and sanctions like shunning, harassment, disregarding excellent work, etc., for those who are Independent or Republican leaning. A toxic workplace is one that is micro managed, politically biased, and encourages employees to turn against each other for points against those who do not follow the union party line, and union workplace rules to the letter, no matter what the reason. Union agreements encourage employees to hate the boss and each other, and encourage bosses to hate employees. Unions create workplaces that discourage innovation, creativity, and stifle individual freedoms and abilities of hard working, competent employees. Indeed, competent, talented, intelligent, hard-working employees are routinely sabotaged, because they set the bar higher and threaten lazy, well-connected employees by their abilities.
    When unions and the government are the only game in town, they can and will dictate how private companies and employers operate. Therefore, we must allow freedom of choice and the Right to Work within all workplaces. Employees should never be tricked, bullied or corralled into unions by fear of sanctions or job loss. What Democratically-dominated federal workplaces fail to realize is that Republicans are not so much clock watchers and rigid regulators as they are watching how much work is actually being done; how the work is being done; and how much time and money are being saved or wasted. Unregulated employees who feel free are always the best and most productive workers. The federal government Democrats hoping to hide and make up for their budgetary excesses, incompetence, and other mistakes are now requiring employees to conform to unrealistically harsh union rules, hoping to cover up for their incompetence, inefficiency, mismanagement, and overspending. What federal government managers do not realize is that Republicans do not care so much if employees arrive exactly on time and leave exactly on time, and sit quietly at their desks all day. Republicans care more about how much money is being spent, wasted, and how money is being handled; and how much work is actually being done. Democrats hope through their punctuality and rigid adherence to unreasonable union policy to hide their sins. However, their sins and excesses will come out, regardless. It is the old game of watch this hand so you will not see what the other hand is doing. Federal workplaces must be required to run efficiently, intelligently, and in a manner that is fair to all employees, even Independents and Republicans. If not, the budget will continue to spiral out of control.
    We can no longer afford to operate as the in past; that day is done. Regulations that hurt more than help must be cast aside. It is a new federal and state government era where being responsible, reasonable, fair, and competent needs to be valued and rewarded. The days of slovenly practices, values, operations, and regulations that thwart should be discouraged in order to reduce the US deficit; and to create more flexible, employee-friendly, and productive workplaces. If Republicans want to diminish the influence and control of unions, Republicans need to play against all of the problems that I have outlined that unions bring into the workplace. Right to Work groups need to emphasize employee-friendly, flexible workplaces where innovation, creativity, competence, ability and good manners are rewarded rather than suppressed.
    It is a myth that unions help employees because most often they do not. Many union personnel are working for political capital rather than helping employees and will reply with dismissive spin to employee requests for help. One has to prove loyalty and service to the union to get any help and sometimes that is also of no avail.

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