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The Patriot Movement

March 11, 2013 by  

The Patriot Movement
PHOTOS.COM

There is and has been for some time a propaganda war designed to marginalize and demonize the liberty movement and those who advocate for a government that is limited by the Constitution and rule of law. Last week, that war hit high gear, as it became apparent that rational discussion about the role of government is no longer possible — in Washington or elsewhere.

The hate group I call the Southern Preposterous Lie Center (read about it here, here and here) fired its salvo with its spring non-Intelligence Report, “The Year in Hate & Extremism.” The magazine is yet another regurgitation of the SPLC’s regular quarterly vomit used to divest widows, simpletons and progressives of their wealth so Morris Dees and his socialist partners can live the high life and work from swanky office space in downtown Montgomery, Ala.

In the report, the lie center equates liberty-minded, pro-Constitution conservative and libertarian Americans with the Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazi skinheads, but it draws no real nexus beyond the bogies inside Mark Potok’s collectivist brain. Potok and the lie center have created a “hate group” designation for these people: Patriots.

He begins one section, under the heading “Once Again, Gun Control Spurs the ‘Patriots,’” with this screed:

Twenty years ago, the passage of the Brady gun control bill helped ignite the first wave of the “Patriot” movement, a combustible mix of gun-toting militias and baseless conspiracy theories about government perfidy that culminated in the 1995 mass murder of 168 people in an Oklahoma City federal building.

One may recall that these “baseless conspiracy theories about government perfidy” include the Federal government’s murder by gunfire and incineration of 83 people — including women and children — living by their own choice in a compound in Waco, Texas; the cold-blooded murder of 14-year-old Sammy Weaver (who was shot in the back by U.S. Marshal Bill Degan and/or other Federal agents) and Vicki Weaver as she held her 10-month-old baby (shot in the head by the criminal FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi, who received a commendation rather than a deserved murder charge); the passage by Congress of the 2nd Amendment-shredding Federal Assault Weapons Ban in 1994,  which outlawed semi-automatic weapons based on cosmetic features alone; and the 1993 attempt to force Americans into a socialist healthcare (deathcare) system dubbed Hillarycare.

Potok then makes a leap to tie displeasure over these instances of true “government perfidy” to the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Okla., with strings that have not been proven and that likely do not exist. However, while it is certain that the “government perfidy” did lead to a growth in the number of people who realized that government was getting out of control, it is more than likely that the Oklahoma City bombing was a false flag attack designed to bolster Bill Clinton’s failing Presidency, which was at its lowest point of his two terms. I explained that here. (And there is much more evidence available for those who wish to see it.)

This explanation, which I wrote in 2010, came after Clinton joined a chorus of Democrat progressives and statists and media talking heads (apologies for the redundancy) in comparing supporters of the then-burgeoning Tea Party movement with convicted bomber Timothy McVeigh (and Branch Davidians and Randy Weaver). So you see that Potok is just reviving a tired — but somewhat successful, thanks to the mainstream media government propaganda agents, many of whom turn to the lie center for “news” — message.

And just who does Potok and the lie center name as leaders of this “radical” right “Patriot” movement made up of “racists” and “extremists?” Senator Rand Paul (R-Ky.); Representative Trey Radel (R-Fla.), who has said Obama could be impeached for executive actions on gun control; Sheriff Richard Mack; The Oath Keepers (current and former military and law enforcement who have vowed to uphold the oath they swore to the Constitution); former Constitution Party Presidential candidate Chuck Baldwin; Matt Barber of Liberty Counsel Action; Tony Adkins of Conservative-daily.com; Larry Klayman, the founder of Judicial Watch and FreedomWatch; the Family Research Council; Joseph Farah of WND.com; Donald Trump; and unnamed lawmakers (but you know who you are) in Arizona, Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee who proposed laws that sought to prevent Federal gun control from applying to their States.

On Thursday, Senator John McCain (Senile old fool and supporter of perpetual war-Ariz.) and his trained monkey, Senator Lindsey Graham (Fascist and Liar-S.C.), denigrated Paul and also some of Paul’s allies — with fallacious and specious arguments  — over his almost 13-hour filibuster in which he sought a straight answer from President Barack Obama and/or Attorney General Eric Holder about the use of drones to kill Americans. But McCain didn’t stop there. He also took to the Senate floor to take swipes at libertarians and the liberty movement with yet more logical fallacies.

But McCain and Graham are not the first of the establishment Republicans to attempt to marginalize supporters of the Constitution and small government with ad hominems and logical fallacies. Nor is it just the establishment elected class and its propagandists who casually throw around the term “extremist” when talking about the honest, hardworking American business owners; blue- and white-collar workers; veterans; retirees and students who are linked to the liberty movement through the original grassroots local Tea Party groups and libertarian-oriented “Ron Paulites.” Notice that in the comments below articles on this site and others there are those who attempt to smear the Tea Party with baseless ad hominems and comparisons to the Taliban.

Recall that during the 2000 election, then-candidate George W. Bush ran on a platform of “compassionate conservatism.” Compassionate conservatism was, as I said at the time, doublespeak for national socialism or fascism. It was used to imply that conservative principles were somehow not compassionate and that Bush was somehow more high-minded, thinking and compassionate than those who opposed him in the primary.

That Bush was more high-minded, thinking and compassionate was not borne out by history. Bush policies are what accelerated the journey to where we now find ourselves: living in a police state engaged in perpetual war with a bloated, deficit-riddled, ever-growing government and in a time where Senators and Americans who oppose those policies are branded as extremists or potential terrorists. It was opposition to Bush policies at the end of his term that sparked the growth of the Tea Party in the first place.

It’s a sad day indeed when there is a necessity to ask whether our government feels it can label us as terrorists and disregard the Constitution and kill us without due process and when just asking the question gets you branded as an extremist or, worse, a libertarian, a  terrorist or a Patriot.

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, Thomas Payne, John Hancock, John Adams, James Madison, James Monroe, Alexander Hamilton and a host of others were our first patriots. If their idea of government is extreme in the eyes of the SPLC, McCain and Graham, then I’m a part of the “Patriot” movement, too.

I suppose that makes the lie center, McCain, Graham and others of their ilk enemies of freedom and, therefore, extremist enemies of America. Maybe they’ll be featured in the SPLC’s next issue.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Jeremy Leochner

    It is wrong to label people with differing views as terrorists. Terrorists are violent murderers who advocate the complete collapse of society so they can push their own personal agenda. I do not think Libertarians fall anywhere near that category.

    As to the Patriot Movement I have little knowledge. I will focus on the names mentioned in this article. If the people Mr. Livingston mentioned represent the Patriot Movement then I am some what concerned. People like Rand Paul and Joseph Farah have spent much time and effort attacking the government. The argument which they have pushed is not one of more responsible or accountable government. It is not one of making government smaller and returning to its proper status of being of, by and for the people. Instead the argument that they have pushed is one where the federal government is inherently evil and that those who disagree with them on that principle are big government fanatics. Personally I do not take people like Rand Paul to be shining examples of Libertarians or Conservatives.

    It is wrong to disparage someone for adhering to a particular ideology such as liberalism or conservatism. If the Southern Poverty Law Center has done so I would disagree with them. No ones political ideology determines who they are. You have to judge people on their actions. Not their political labels.

    • Harold Olsen

      “Personally I do not take people like Rand Paul to be shining examples of Libertarians or Conservatives.”

      I most definitely agree with you on that!

    • Vigilant

      “Instead the argument that they have pushed is one where the federal government is inherently evil…”

      “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”

      Thomas Jefferson

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Government is not the enemy. Corrupt government is. Bad government is. Incompetent government is. Unaccountable government is. Ineffective government is. But government in and of itself is not evil. Declaration of Independence: “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men”

        What matters is actions and choices. It is not government that should be judged but the people who make it up. It is not the government but the laws it puts forth that should be judged. That government which governs best governs best. That government which governs lest simply does not govern.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        All these tiresome quotes from old dead white guys—-and so carefully cherry picked to make some point that the writer can’t make for us in his own words.

        I will trump all with a quote from the immortal Pogo”

        “We have met the enemy and he is us!” Top that one, Vig!

      • TML

        Jeremy Leochner says “Instead the argument that they have pushed is one where the federal government is inherently evil…” “

        Jeremy Leochner says “Government is not the enemy. Corrupt government is. Bad government is. Incompetent government is. Unaccountable government is. Ineffective government is. But government in and of itself is not evil. Declaration of Independence: “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men””

        Here’s another one from some old dead white guy… “Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”

      • Vigilant

        “All these tiresome quotes from old dead white guys—-and so carefully cherry picked to make some point that the writer can’t make for us in his own words.”

        Well, well, and I thought we had a truce. Guess your pure ad hominem is the manner you choose to argue. Fine. You add nothing meaningful to the discussion.

        I require no quotes from great men unless they said it with an elegance and succinctness I would not deign to second guess. If you want quotes from the Founders regarding the innate dangers of government, consult the Federalist Papers, their personal writings and speeches. Their grasp of history ran circles around yours.

        Such disdain for the Founders with the cliché of “old dead white guys’ is typical of the committed leftists such as you. The enemy is you, my friend.

        “Dead white European males” was the term I was accustomed to hearing from the sophomoric utterances of the “Make love not war” idiots of the 60s. Seems that growing older is no guarantee of wisdom.

        “Dead,” as if only the philosophies of the living are to be considered relevant to the problems of the age.

        “White,” as if your racist squint deems only the opinions of a multicultural plenipotentiary committee to be worthy of consideration.

        “European,” as if it wasn’t the Enlightenment that produced the most progressive and humane framework for government in the history of the world.

        “Males,” as if their gender wasn’t capable of recognizing that individual sovereignty was and still is the highest ideal of human existence.

        RBT, the pioneers of the sciences you worship were largely dead white European males. Darwin was one; does that invalidate evolution? Are the advances of Newton, Einstein, et. al., to be discarded because they are “old dead white guys?” Only by your reckoning, apparently.

        I once thought you had some proficiency in the cognitive area. Your “old dead white guys” brickbat of a comment now impels me to conclude that you are just one more paid shill for the left.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        TML you helped prove my point. It isn’t absolute black and white government is good or government is bad. There were different quotes expressing different views of the nature and purpose of government. Government like the people in it has both good and evil. Its about trying to bring out the good and contain and deal with the evil that matters.

      • TML

        Jeremy Leochner says “TML you helped prove my point. It isn’t absolute black and white government is good or government is bad. There were different quotes expressing different views of the nature and purpose of government. Government like the people in it has both good and evil. Its about trying to bring out the good and contain and deal with the evil that matters.”

        Ah, but you help prove the point that I believe Vigilant was trying to make by posting a quote from that old dead white guy in response to your comment about Rand, ““Instead the argument that they have pushed is one where the federal government is inherently evil…”

        You now respond, “…Government like the people in it has both good and evil. Its about trying to bring out the good and contain and deal with the evil that matters.”

        With a government (fire) going out of control with perpetual wars – (Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Syria? Mali, Yemen, Palestine, Lebanon, Egypt, The “terrorist”, The Islamist “extremist”, A religion called Islam, The Taliban (who we trained and armed), Al-Qaida (who we trained as well, and seem to be as elusive and vaguely wide spread as “terrorism”), or whatever other flavor) – Rand is trying to deal with the evil that matters as it pertains to the assassination of American Citizens on American soil, as its already been rationalized arbitrarily for one on foreign soil.

        Here’s another one I know BRT will like from an old dead white guy…
        “If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad.” – James Madison

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Vigilant says, “Well, well, and I thought we had a truce”. No, Vig, I beat your brains out on that other thread, you had a complete meltdown that was characterized by one of the worst “ad hominems” ever seen on PLD, and you (wisely) let me have the last word as you abandoned the field and went off to lick your wounds. I have been busy with ‘real life” for several days now and have barely looked at PLD. I will have some time this week and (if you insist) will be glad to expose you again as a pseudo-intellectual who thinks sniffing down his nose from weakly thought out and supported positions is any kind of proof of understanding or intelligence.

        “You add nothing meaningful to the discussion”. Not for you to say, Vig—that’s an ad hominem and pure unsupported opinion. I would NOT say that about you. You occasionally make some good points in discussions but your greatest value seems to be setting yourself up as a bad example of how NOT to do it—-a good object lesson. Are you going to succumb to the same temptation that your buddy Frank has?—-try to “get RBT” until you make yourself look totally foolish?

        “I require no quotes from great men unless they said it with an elegance and succinctness I would not deign to second guess. If you want quotes from the Founders regarding the innate dangers of government, consult the Federalist Papers, their personal writings and speeches”.

        Like I said, if you can’t say it in your own words, quote somebody and try to make everyone think you understand what they said. I have read much of the Federalist Papers and what the “founding fathers” said before and after, including the history of the Bill of Rights. Unlike you, I don’t use them to try to impress folks, particularly since the whole “history” of that time is so very complicated and any proper use would make for very long essays indeed.

        “Their grasp of history ran circles around yours”. That sounds so clever but is really so dumb. Does it escape you that their “history” is over 220 years old and is the history of colonial subjects revolting against a monarchy and what were the early arguments about the founding of the republic? Our history INCLUDES their history, and the “here and now” is where we live and try to work out our destiny. Using short quotes out of context is mere “dilettantism” and adds “little meaningful to the discussion”

        And “disdain”, and “cliches”, and “committed leftists”, and “sophomoric utterances”, and “white European Males” (something I never said). Sorry, they did some wonderful things back then, but they ARE old dead white guys (200+ years now), and the country has come a long way since then. All that follows is pure rhetoric and “adds nothing meaningful to the discussion”.

        “Such disdain for the Founders with the cliché of “old dead white guys’ is typical of the committed leftists such as you. The enemy is you, my friend”
        (I’m an “enemy” now? Of what? Since I’m not a committed leftist, I must be the enemy of fools of any stripe that run their mouths without thinking on PLD—like you, for one)

        “Dead white European males” was the term I was accustomed to hearing from the sophomoric utterances of the “Make love not war” idiots of the 60s. Seems that growing older is no guarantee of wisdom.
        (Yes, it would appear that your spouting of cliches proves that point. You have not grown wiser as you’ve aged. You still adhere to the mindlessness of the ’60′s yourself, apparently).

        “Dead,” as if only the philosophies of the living are to be considered relevant to the problems of the age.
        (I didn’t say that, and you’re a fool to suggest that I did).

        “White,” as if your racist squint deems only the opinions of a multicultural plenipotentiary committee to be worthy of consideration.
        (Didn’t say that either and you’re a fool to suggest that I did)

        “European,” as if it wasn’t the Enlightenment that produced the most progressive and humane framework for government in the history of the world.
        (Didn’t say that either and you’re a fool to suggest that I did. Although I do agree with the general thrust of the statement. It wasn’t relevant so I didn’t bring it up)

        “Males,” as if their gender wasn’t capable of recognizing that individual sovereignty was and still is the highest ideal of human existence.
        (Really??? That’s a truly mindless piece of rhetoric? Why do you insist on piling stupidity on top of stupidity? This country was ruled by “males” when such things as slavery, genocide of native Americans, denial of the right to vote for women, Jim Crow laws, etc, ETC, ETC. were the law of the land. The only “sovereignty” they seemed to recognize was the power of the male (white particularly) to deny “sovereignty” to multiple classes of human beings. The “highest ideal of human existence”? LOL.

        And the ultimate mindlessness is unveiled as Vig seeks to “finish me off” with his brilliant logic and reasoning.

        “The pioneers of the sciences you worship were largely dead white European males. Darwin was one; does that invalidate evolution? Are the advances of Newton, Einstein, et. al., to be discarded because they are “old dead white guys?” Only by your reckoning, apparently”.

        Does Vig know about “nonsequiturs”? Apparently not, or he wouldn’t make this stupid argument. Only by his reckoning does it make sense, apparently, and that’s obvious to all. And “sciences you worship”? Again Vig fails to think something through, or he would not overreached with “worship” and would have perhaps talked more about the scientific methods of gathering and analyzing data that we owe so much to. It is apparently an alien concept to him.

        Vigil;ant says “I once thought you had some proficiency in the cognitive area. Your “old dead white guys” brickbat of a comment now impels me to conclude that you are just one more paid shill for the left”.
        I will say that Vig is obviously NOT qualified to JUDGE my “proficiency in the cognitive area”. As a former educator, I am WAY more qualified to judge his, and assert expertise in that area that far exceeds what he possesses. He will say that is my “opinion”, but it is far better supported by my comments here than his PURE opinion is. Vig is already using the debate technique called “abandonment of discussion” as he “concludes I am a paid shill”. A faulty conclusion based on NO evidence—-what he IS impelled to do there is spout horsepucky because he has no real argument to make.

        If you want to play whack-a-mole, Vig, just keep it up. I’ll oblige.
        The score is now RBT~20, Vig-0

        TML’s foolishness will have to wait for tomorrow—-Laugh In is over and I’m weary.
        Say Goodnight, Vigilant.

      • Vigilant

        LOL! The meltdown is in progress all right. NB’s epistle-length apologies testify to it. It’s not just that he’s following me around like a stalker to gratuitously take potshots at me; he feels childishly compelled to keep score. Waste of bandwidth, NB, waste of bandwidth. You’ve engaged a brain superior to yours in all aspects. As a mental midget, you are doomed to failure in any logical argument with the master. You have weaseled out of so many confrontations with logic that you have assumed that as your habit.

        “Physician, heal thyself.” Recognize that it is you who believes that “sniffing down [your] nose from weakly thought out and supported positions is any kind of proof of understanding or intelligence.”

        Obssession is unhealthy for an old “true believer” such as you. Better watch that BP, old fart.

        “I will say that Vig is obviously NOT qualified to JUDGE my “proficiency in the cognitive area”. As a former educator, I am WAY more qualified to judge his, and assert expertise in that area that far exceeds what he possesses.”

        That is perhaps the richest and most amusing comment of all. Like most PhDs who insist that they be addressed as “doctor,” NB pulls out the old “as a former educator” ploy as if that alone entitles him to assert opinion as fact. A word to the dumb: expertise is demonstrated by what you say and do, NOT by possession of a piece of paper.

        Yes, John Dewey was an “educator” as well, and thanks to the adoption of his mind-programming social engineering philosophies by “educators” such as NB, we see the devastating results in today’s public so-called “education.”

      • Vigilant

        No Brain asserts “Since I’m not a committed leftist…” but fails to give ANY indication that he is anything BUT.

        Tell me old man, do you have the courage to address the following questions to ascertain whether or not you are a leftist?

        Do you believe:

        (1) That the Constitution is a “living” document?
        (2) That the job of the government is to redistribute wealth?
        (3) That the aim of public “education” is to raise awareness of (and program young minds to subscribe to) multiculturalism, socialism, environmentalism and the leveling techniques of self-esteem and forced mediocrity?
        (4) That the dignity and right of the individual to assert his/her individual sovereignty must take a back seat to the bankrupt collectivist ideologies of the left?
        (5) That Christianity (or any theist position) must be constantly assailed and denigrated?
        (6) That secular humanism provides the only valid standards of morality?
        (7) That the Founders were remiss in not handing us an absolutely perfect government?
        (8) That history has not repeatedly shown that the highest number of prosperous and happy people have resulted from the freedoms offered by Capitalism?
        (9) That the taking of innocent human life is less worthy of censure than the self-centered choice of an amoral, slatternly human adult?
        (10) That private property, the very heart of our rights, is an outmoded notion?

        That’s just ten questions. Feel free to circumlocute, obfuscate, or weasel your way out of answering directly as you so often do. Just trying to get at the facts.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Vigilant once again steps all over the concepts of logic and rational debate with his “questions”. He once again shows what a fool he is to even think that I will play his game. Circumlocution, obfuscate, and weasel? If I don’t play his game? Laughable.

        Vig again wants to substitute his weak opinions and misguided beliefs for reasoning when he talks about “fails to give ANY indication that he is anything BUT (a committed leftist)”. Uh, Vig—-the way it works is that YOU need to prove that I AM a “committed leftist”, not that I have to prove that I’m not. Go for it—-line up all my comments that show that “commitment” and then we can talk.

        Once more we see the arrogant ignorance appear with, “Tell me old man, do you have the courage to address the following questions to ascertain whether or not you are a leftist?” A fine collection of right wing ideological talking point horsepucky, Vig. Where did you copy it from? It is not original with you I get “surveys” like this from the Heritage Foundation all the time—-dishonest and downright insulting to the intelligence.

        Score is now RBT~23, Vigilant-0

        • Kevin

          So your not going to answer his questions? I mean if they are so easy to Identify and dismiss then take them apart one by one. hell just answer one of them. the fact that you find them so repugnant to your sensibilities seems like an answer in Itself. you are obviously not really interested in an actual exchange of Ideas or any real communication as evidenced by your keeping a “score” a few of those questions looked rather simple to me and could be easily marked off with a Yes or No. what are you afraid of??? Be proud of who you are. if you want people to respect you and to understand what it is you stand for then back it up by being honest. I don’t think condescending and Purile remarks will make any one take your Opinions seriously.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Vigilant talks about “meltdowns” here, and implies that I am having one. In actuality, he is following the same foolish path he did on the other thread that resulted in HIS classic meltdown and abandonment of the field. So, let’s look at what mindlessness he is spouting here and see how many toes he is shooting off.

        “NB’s epistle-length apologies testify to it”.
        (APOLOGIES? From ME? For what? Vig is delusional again)
        “It’s not just that he’s following me around like a stalker to gratuitously take potshots at me”
        (I stalk no one—-I stalk lies. distortion, self-delusion, and mis-information, and my “potshots” are anything but “gratuitous”—-as Vig should realize by now)
        “he feels childishly compelled to keep score”
        (Yup, and I do it as a measure of Vig’s wasted efforts to “score” on me. Maybe when it gets up to the 200 to 0 range Vig will do a Frank and give it up)
        “You’ve engaged a brain superior to yours in all aspects”
        “As a mental midget, you are doomed to failure in any logical argument with the master”.
        (Vig says it so it must be true—-he may be kidding us here with “master”, though. I sure would like to see some evidence of what he calls his “superior brain”)
        “You have weaseled out of so many confrontations with logic that you have assumed that as your habit”
        (Vig, show us some logic and I’ll “duel” with you—-your bald assertions—all just OPINIONS—-are not something that can be answered other than to say “self-deluded horsepucky”) .

        “Physician, heal thyself.” Recognize that it is you who believes that “sniffing down [your] nose from weakly thought out and supported positions is any kind of proof of understanding or intelligence”
        (You’re the one who keeps climbing up on the high horse of smugness, condescension, feigned intellectualism, and downright arrogance, Vig. You are perhaps too self-deluded to recognize that, but it’s true).

        “Obsession is unhealthy for an old “true believer” such as you. Better watch that BP, old fart”
        (OLD FART? Vigilant IS melting down—-he’s running out of (what he thinks are) arguments and is now just name-calling).

        “I will say that Vig is obviously NOT qualified to JUDGE my “proficiency in the cognitive area”. As a former educator, I am WAY more qualified to judge his, and assert expertise in that area that far exceeds what he possesses.”

        Vig says, “That is perhaps the richest and most amusing comment of all. Like most PhDs who insist that they be addressed as “doctor,” NB pulls out the old “as a former educator” ploy as if that alone entitles him to assert opinion as fact. A word to the dumb: expertise is demonstrated by what you say and do, NOT by possession of a piece of paper”

        Yes, Vig has once again proved my point so I will repeat it. .”Vig is obviously NOT qualified to judge my “proficiency in the cognitive area”. As a former educator, I am WAY more qualified to judge his, and I assert expertise in that area that far exceeds what he possesses.” I didn’t insist on being called by any title other than “Mister” during my time in education, and my training and experience DOES in fact qualify me to make the assertion I did—-I spent 30 years “doing”, and had to deal with fools like Vig among the students, parents, and faculty—-they DID listen to what I said and DID what I told them to do, because I was speaking truth to them. No “ploys” involved. If Vig were a faculty member in my school, his OBVIOUS attitudinal and mental shortcomings would have put him in danger of losing his job.

        “Yes, John Dewey was an “educator” as well, and thanks to the adoption of his mind-programming social engineering philosophies by “educators” such as NB, we see the devastating results in today’s public so-called “education.”
        Vig closes with a brilliantly chosen piece of horsepucky that he has copied from some wing nut site. John DEWEY? Mind-programming social engineering philosophies? Devastating results? Lord love a duck, Vig! You are approaching meltdown.

        Score is now RBT~38, Vigilant-0

      • Vigilant

        Perhaps the most amusing shortcoming of this petulant “former educator” is his inability to distinguish fact from opinion. It is glaringly obvious that he has never learned a thing about the nature and origin of our knowledge as human beings. If he ever took a course in epistemology or logic and actually came away with an understanding of them, I would be surprised.

        As it also is with regard to his misuse of the English language. He has such a cavalier approach to language that he actually believes that he can make up a new word and be justified in asserting “it IS a word.” He has done this before, subjecting himself to the ridicule it warranted, in spades.

        But this is nothing in comparison to his exceptional misuse of the language in advancing an opinion as if it were a fact. In particular, with regard to the two statements he makes and considers them one and the same, i.e., “God does not exist” and “I believe God does not exist.” Not just that, but when I school him on what constitutes proper use of the language, he willfully disregards the logical argument to “abandon the discussion,” as he would say, to launch into unwarranted accusations that I am “preaching.”

        OK, let’s frame this argument in another way to avoid such baseless charges by the language-challenged. I make a statement that “God exists” and claim it to be a fact. OK, says the skeptic, if it is fact then you must prove it to me.

        It is no more provable than the statement “God does not exist.” Neither is a statement of fact, they are both statements of belief, they are opinions, they are at best hypotheses subject to test. Now NB asserts that “God does not exist” is a “fact,” turning the English language and the rules of logic on their heads by providing NOTHING beyond this flat statement to disprove that “God does exist.”

        He has been so programmed in his hard core atheism that he asserts an unprovable statement to “disprove” another. In his total blindness, he will never admit the truth: that atheism is a religious belief because it takes in faith that which is unprovable.

        I am “preaching” nothing, NB, I am edifying you in the use of language, and the definitions of fact and opinion universally accepted by all rational human beings.

      • Vigilant

        No Brain says, “Uh, Vig—-the way it works is that YOU need to prove that I AM a “committed leftist”, not that I have to prove that I’m not. Go for it—-line up all my comments that show that “commitment” and then we can talk.”

        Thanks for proving my point. You do not have the courage to answer simple questions. And your weaseling out of answering was predicted. BTW, my language-challenged friend, a question is not a talking point, it is an interrogative. I know you feel you can change the rules of English as the whim hits you, but no persuasiveness in argument obtains therefrom. What a cowardly abandonment of discussion.

        “He once again shows what a fool he is to even think that I will play his game.” Guess that labels you as a fool to play Frank’s game. Unless, of course, when faced with a chance of stepping on your member, you conveniently opt out.

        No Brain says, “A fine collection of right wing ideological talking point horsepucky, Vig. Where did you copy it from? It is not original with you I get “surveys” like this from the Heritage Foundation all the time—-dishonest and downright insulting to the intelligence.”

        I copied it from nowhere, and they are simple questions you cannot answer without divulging your leftist bent. S’matter, old man, afraid to stand by your sentiments? Or being discovered for what you are?

      • Vigilant

        “NB’s epistle-length apologies testify to it”.
        “(APOLOGIES? From ME? For what? Vig is delusional again)”

        Schooling NB in the English language is becoming tiresome. Look up the word “apology” in the dictionary (if you even have one), oh clueless one.

        Perhaps you’ve never read Plato’s “Apology” or ever heard of “apologists?”

        Then, “—-I spent 30 years “doing”, and had to deal with fools like Vig among the students, parents, and faculty—-they DID listen to what I said and DID what I told them to do, because I was speaking truth to them. No “ploys” involved.”

        No, NB, you spent 30 years “programming,” not “doing.” I spent more years in real life “doing,” and learned first hand about reality. I’m street wise, and I can tell a phony every time I see one.

        “If Vig were a faculty member in my school, his OBVIOUS attitudinal and mental shortcomings would have put him in danger of losing his job.”

        I have no doubt that my conservative views would endanger my survival in academia, where the vast majority at least have the guts to admit they are socialists. The incestuous relationship amongst the “educators” of this nation is well known, and their mental masturbation over matters of socialism and statism have made them actually believe that they are centrists.

        P.S. In your failure to deny that you are a leftist by answering any of my questions, we shall apply the maxim, “qui tacet consentire videtur.” You are indeed a leftist, and too cowardly to admit it.

      • Vigilant

        “It’s not just that he’s following me around like a stalker to gratuitously take potshots at me”

        To which No Brain says, “I stalk no one—-I stalk lies. distortion, self-delusion, and mis-information [sic], and my “potshots” are anything but “gratuitous”…”

        Better up your dosage of Ginkgo Biloba supplements, old man; your memory is failing you. The very start of this thread was a posting by me of two quotations, one from a PLD commenter and one by Jefferson. Nothing more and nothing less.

        Your unsolicited reply, in which you said, “All these tiresome quotes from old dead white guys—-and so carefully cherry picked to make some point that the writer can’t make for us in his own words,” was as gratuitous and snide a remark as you can make.

        Tell me just what in my original posting was a lie, distortion, self-delusion, or misinformation.

        • Kevin

          Your wasting your time. Although I have enjoyed watching you dismantle this Ideologues Drivel, it has now just become sad to watch. Although I am sure that If you stop the spanking and leave that he will then stand up and scream victory whilst adding another Imaginary check to his “Score”

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Kevin says, “So you’re not going to answer his questions?” Kevin, did you not read what I said? They are not “questions” meant to elicit real answers—-they are the types of “questions” that are termed “push” questions in the survey business—-they are meant to make “push” some point and I won’t waste the time to help Vig try to attack me. He can try to say the same things in his own words woithout the “twists” and I may talk to him, but only a fool answers “so when did you stop beating youyr wife” questions. The questions in themselves are not “repugnant to my sensibilities”—it’s Vig’s transparent “game playing” that is. You yourself are suffering from a pretty good dose of confirmation bias or you wouldn’t be saying “it seems like an answer in Itself—-you are obviously not really interested in an actual exchange of Ideas or any real communication as evidenced by your keeping a “score”.” You WANT to believe Vig and you DON’T want to accept what I say—-that’s your privilege and your mistake—-if you COULD look at our exchange with an open mind, you wouldn’t say that. Try “keeping score” yourself—-look at one short piece at a time from the perspective I point out, and then tell me Vig is the one that is “communicating” with “real ideas”.

        And yes, “a few of those questions looked rather simple to me and could be easily marked off with a Yes or No”—-that’s exactly the point—”push” questions are worded so that you must say yes or no when the answer is “maybe” or “yes, but”. I fear very little at my age, and certainly nothing that Vig can throw my way. I don’t know if you have been visiting PLD for long and have read many of my copmments, but I am nothing BUT honest in stating what I believe and backing it up when appropriate. The only “condescending” and “puerile” you’ll see here are things like Vig’s “old fart” nonsense. (His use of that was a point for me, by the way).

        You may have meant to use “respect” rather than “condescending”, and it IS true that I have little respect for those who consistently abuse truth and sometimes show it—–there IS a subtle distinction there. And I have absolutely NO need for respect and don’t seek it here. I seek to educate and counter ignorance and those who don’t “understand” what I say because they don’t WANT to or don’t like the way I say it are the losers.

        Vigilant says:
        March 12, 2013 at 12:02 pm

        Vigilant wants to play whack-a-mole some more. He is foolish enough to go back to a now dead thread and selectively quote some things out of context. This is the thread he suffered the meltdown on, collapsed into a fit of “ad hominems” (and admitted it), and skulked off the field of battle, leaving me with the ” last word” because he had no arguments left—good, bad, or delusional. I can go back and quote from that thread too, and I will if it becomes necessary—-for now, I will be kind.

        “Perhaps the most amusing shortcoming of this petulant “former educator” is his inability to distinguish fact from opinion. It is glaringly obvious that he has never learned a thing about the nature and origin of our knowledge as human beings. If he ever took a course in epistemology or logic and actually came away with an understanding of them, I would be surprised”.
        (Vig YET AGAIN does not realize that he is doing EXACTLY what he has accused me of doing. There is not ONE “fact” in this whole paragraph. It is ALL opinion—I can “distinguish” that FACT and so can anyone else who reads it.)

        “As it also is with regard to his misuse of the English language. He has such a cavalier approach to language that he actually believes that he can make up a new word and be justified in asserting “it IS a word.” He has done this before, subjecting himself to the ridicule it warranted, in spades”.
        (Not quite sure what Vig is talking about, because it’s all OPINION again. In the real world, one needs to specify the “made up words”, explain the context in which they were used, specify the “ridicule” that resulted, etc. No, that’s too much thnking for Vig, who is th master of “bald assertion” aka, spouting unsupporterd opinions. Vig has YET AGAIN not realized that he is doing EXACTLY what he has accused me of doing earlier. There is not ONE “fact” in this whole paragraph either. It is ALL opinion)

        “But this is nothing in comparison to his exceptional misuse of the language in advancing an opinion as if it were a fact. In particular, with regard to the two statements he makes and considers them one and the same, i.e., “God does not exist” and “I believe God does not exist.” Not just that, but when I school him on what constitutes proper use of the language, he willfully disregards the logical argument to “abandon the discussion,” as he would say, to launch into unwarranted accusations that I am “preaching.”
        (For the third time in this screed, Vig again states his biased OPINION as fact. He plucks two statements out of context—-they were part of a string of five or six—-and tries to make something of them? And he “schools me” on proper language usage? LOL So far the only “schooling” Vig is doing is giving us all a textbook BAD example of illogical reasoning. He seems to think that his “subjective” rantings (opinions) should have as much weight as “objective” analysis (of facts).

        And now Vig is swinging off into La-La land with something that is totally unrelated to the thread. It refers back to an argument he lost on the old thread, and once again (for the fourth time now?) relies on subjective and unsupported opinions rather than rational analysis. Vig says,
        “OK, let’s frame this argument in another way to avoid such baseless charges by the language-challenged. I make a statement that “God exists” and claim it to be a fact. OK, says the skeptic, if it is fact then you must prove it to me”.

        “It is no more provable than the statement “God does not exist.” Neither is a statement of fact, they are both statements of belief, they are opinions, they are at best hypotheses subject to test. Now NB asserts that “God does not exist” is a “fact,” turning the English language and the rules of logic on their heads by providing NOTHING beyond this flat statement to disprove that “God does exist.”

        “He has been so programmed in his hard core atheism that he asserts an unprovable statement to “disprove” another. In his total blindness, he will never admit the truth: that atheism is a religious belief because it takes in faith that which is unprovable.

        I am “preaching” nothing, NB, I am edifying you in the use of language, and the definitions of fact and opinion universally accepted by all rational human beings”

        Ignoring the fact that Vig IS ONCE AGAIN “preaching” religion (whether he wants to recognize it or not), the use of such biased and subjective terms/words as the following makes his argument (whatever it is) meaningless:

        baseless
        language-challenged
        programmed
        hard-core atheist
        total blindness
        admit the truth
        atheism is a religion
        And that ignores as well the FACT that he has distorted what I said in the god does-does not exist discussion. One of Vig’s main weapons is his ability to blithely put words in people’s mouths and thoughts in their brains.

        SCore is now RBT~58, Vig-0

        Vigilant says:
        March 12, 2013 at 12:24 pm

        No Brain says, “Uh, Vig—-the way it works is that YOU need to prove that I AM a “committed leftist”, not that I have to prove that I’m not. Go for it—-line up all my comments that show that “commitment” and then we can talk.”
        (Yes, and it bears repeating until you understand the truth of it and really respond)

        “Thanks for proving my point. You do not have the courage to answer simple questions. And your weaseling out of answering was predicted. BTW, my language-challenged friend, a question is not a talking point, it is an interrogative. I know you feel you can change the rules of English as the whim hits you, but no persuasiveness in argument obtains therefrom. What a cowardly abandonment of discussion”
        (Vig is STILL offering OPINION in place of fact. He is so much of a motivated reasoner that he will NEVER score a point in the whack-a-mole game. You made no “point”, and It is not a question of “courage”, Vig, but one of stupidity—-you are stupid if you think anyone on PLD will buy your contention that these “questions” are anything but “talking points” and “push” questions. YOU are the one who wants to interpret the language and the processes of rational analysis to suit yourself, and it becomes more obvious with every word you put on paper. Don’t you recall what happened the last time you did that? Are you self-destructive? Do you like getting your brains beaten in in front of the world?

        “He once again shows what a fool he is to even think that I will play his game.” Guess that labels you as a fool to play Frank’s game. Unless, of course, when faced with a chance of stepping on your member, you conveniently opt out.
        (Frank? Is he still coming around? The only fool in the game when Frank and I “play” is Frank, because he just doesn’t know his limitations. And “conveniently opt out”? More unsubstantiated horsepucky, Vig. Don’t you understand that even the folks on this site that don’t like me are smart enough not to swallow your crap? It gets old when all you have to show them is namecalling and OPINIONS.

        “No Brain says, “A fine collection of right wing ideological talking point horsepucky, Vig. Where did you copy it from? It is not original with you I get “surveys” like this from the Heritage Foundation all the time—-dishonest and downright insulting to the intelligence.”
        Vig says, “I copied it from nowhere”
        (Not to call you a liar, Vig, but I don’t believe you—NOBODY speaks like that unless tjhey’re doing it for a living and posting it on some blog. ‘fess up, it’ll go easier for you oif you tell the truth)

        “They are simple questions you cannot answer without divulging your leftist bent. S’matter, old man, afraid to stand by your sentiments? Or being discovered for what you are?”
        (Yep simple questions for anyone who is a big enough simpleton to actually pose them and think that they will be answered by anyone with half a brain. And the “old man” will cost you another point—-you DO give them away too easily. And how old are you, anyway? Should I call you “Junior”?)

        Score is now RBT~71, Vig-0 (and I didn’t charge you for the “No Brains” this time)

        • Kevin

          Ok so I will admit some Bias on my part. I am not a republican or a Democrat or a member of any Political Party hell I’m not even a Christian. What I am is an American who is fed up with Elite Politicians in Washington Bypassing our Constitution and Turning our Government Into a Breeding ground for corruption. I Did not vote for Bush and did not like him. I Did However Vote for Obama (the first time) and have been Kicking myself ever since. His words rarely match his actions and he is purposely Bankrupting our country(in my Opinion.. since you like pointing out others opinions) While I may not be able to stand the English language on its head or use my limited Intellect to bully you into submission. I can ask you a question of my own.
          Can you give me one example of a successful government program (i.e. a government program that is self-sustaining/not in debt)?
          Please Use small words so I will understand you correctly.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Kevin has not seen my reply to one of his other comments, so he may perhaps be excused somewhat for what he says here. Actually he sounds very much like Vigilant here—-a bunch of opinion with no real argument to support it. Kevin has “enjoyed” watching Vigilant get his brains beaten in? Too bad his confirmation bias makes it impossible for him to make rational observations of what is going on in front of his face. He appears to be a W.I.F.I. of the worst stripe. Ignorance is bliss, Kevin. Enjoy your bliss.

        “Your wasting your time. Although I have enjoyed watching you dismantle this Ideologues Drivel, it has now just become sad to watch. Although I am sure that If you stop the spanking and leave that he will then stand up and scream victory whilst adding another Imaginary check to his “Score”.

        Vigilant yet again runs in circles—-now he wants to talk about Plato and resorts to the old “look it up in the dictionary” ploy. A substitute for argument is what that is.

        And for one who never states opinion as fact, Vig does quite well with, “No, NB, you spent 30 years “programming,” not “doing.” Really? On what “experience” does Vig base that OPINION?

        Oh yes, Vig says “I spent more years in real life “doing,” and learned first hand about reality. I’m street wise, and I can tell a phony every time I see one”. More OPINION. Tell us about what YOU “did” in “real life”, Vig. I see little evidence that you learned much except how to run your mouth for extended periods without really SAYING anything of substance. So, what did you “do”? What was your “reality”? What makes you an expert on “phonies”, other than that you are one yourself?

        I said, “If Vig were a faculty member in my school, his OBVIOUS attitudinal and mental shortcomings would have put him in danger of losing his job.” To which Vig responded,

        “I have no doubt that my conservative views would endanger my survival in academia, where the vast majority at least have the guts to admit they are socialists. The incestuous relationship amongst the “educators” of this nation is well known, and their mental masturbation over matters of socialism and statism have made them actually believe that they are centrists”
        That little speech leads me to believe that Vig’s “OBVIOUS attitudinal and mental shortcomings” DID in fact land him in some hot water in whatever “reality” he lived and “learned in”. Yes, he would surely have found himself in front of my desk back in the day, and he is stubborn enough that he might have been one of the ones we fired. There weren’t many, and they came from both ends of the political spectrum, but the “conservatives” got fired in much higher proportions than the “lefties”.
        “Incestuous relationships”, “mental masturbation”, and “the vast majority admit they are leftists”—–Lord love a duck!

        And another logic fail by Vig, “P.S. In your failure to deny that you are a leftist by answering any of my questions, we shall apply the maxim, “qui tacet consentire videtur.” You are indeed a leftist, and too cowardly to admit it”

        Dream on, Vig—-YOU may choose to apply the maxim, but I HAVE spoken and told you that I will not reply to your feeble attempt to ask “non questions”. You should perhaps be the one to reverse that and stop beating on a dead horse that only makes you look bad as you keep repeating it. I am not a leftist because I am not a leftist—-period—-you had your chance to PROVE that I am a leftist—-you haven’t even attempted it—-YOU fail, not me. (And what’s with the Latin? Is that supposed to lend some “intellectualism” to your non-arguments?—-phony posturing, if you ask me)

        Vigilant is just brimming over with zeal here, although I am supposedly the one who is stalking him. Too bad he doesn’t take the time to think these comments through before posting them. Now he wants to change the subject and go all the way back to the very first comment he made, which WAS nothing more than a cheap quote rather than anything original. Who ever said anything in your ORIGINAL POST was “a lie, distortion, self-delusion, or misinformation”—–that all came in your later posts.

        And I have to chuckle at Vig’s use of “as gratuitous and snide a remark as you can make”—–this from the master of gratuitous snide remarks. And “as you can make”? Quite an overreach there, Vig, it was actually a rather minor “snark”, and only in the part that said, “so carefully cherry picked to make some point that the writer can’t make for us in his own words”—-truth is truth, and just because you don’t like it, it doesn’t become “snide”.

        Score is now RBT~81, Vig-0

      • Vigilant

        Kevin says, “Although I am sure that If you stop the spanking and leave that he will then stand up and scream victory whilst adding another Imaginary check to his “Score.”

        Kevin, you’re 100% right. No Brain continues to avoid any factual discussion, addressing everything but the arguments put forth. He is a weasel par excellence.

        Then there’s the childish “score keeping” thing. I’m certain he’s accustomed to being a participant AND referee at the same time. Pity him for a need to win so strong that he’s blinded by his own ego. We all know what the REAL score is.

        I’ll engage him no longer and, as you say, he will claim a “victory” simply because I will discontinue questioning when he refuses to answer, and field factual arguments which he studiously avoids.

        P.S. to No Brain: I may have leveled ad hominems at you, but I have never called you a liar. I have been posting on this site far longer than you have, and everyone will tell you I never plagiarize or fail to attribute sources. The list of questions was mine, written on the spot, and I most assuredly don’t do this for a living.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Vigilant is cracking under the strain of maintaining the facade. What facade is that, you ask? The facade that HE is engaging in “factual discussion” and making any kind of “arguments”. As usual, he again just offers OPINIONS and insists that they are truth just because he says so. Let me denote all the things that are OPINION in this comment.

        Kevin, you’re 100% right. (OPINION) No Brain continues to avoid any factual discussion (OPINION), addressing everything but the arguments put forth (OPINION). He is a weasel par excellence (OPINION)

        Then there’s the childish “score keeping” thing. (OPINION) I’m certain he’s accustomed to being a participant AND referee at the same time.(OPINION) Pity him for a need to win so strong that he’s blinded by his own ego (OPINION). We all know what the REAL score is.(OPINION)

        So far, Vigilant has said NOTHING of substance—presented no facts, no arguments based on those facts, just bald assertions of what Vigilant WANTS to be the truth.

        And now Vigilant is again abandoning the field and sniffing down his nose as if it’s MY fault. Nice try Vig, but only in your world of self-delusion is anyone buying that.

        Vig says, “I’ll engage him no longer and, as you say, he will claim a “victory” simply because I will discontinue questioning when he refuses to answer, and field factual arguments which he studiously avoids”.

        Actually, I avoid answering no question that is honest and not contrived, as yours were. Just because I refuse to play your silly game, does not mean I am “refusing” to engage in real discussion, and if you ever fielded a “factual argument”, I would be glad to “field it”—-I would have “fielded” anything “factual” you said in your first two paragraphs above, but you were too busy blowing smoke to be “factual”.

        And a closing P.S. to No Brain: “I may have leveled ad hominems at you, but I have never called you a liar. I have been posting on this site far longer than you have, and everyone will tell you I never plagiarize or fail to attribute sources. The list of questions was mine, written on the spot, and I most assuredly don’t do this for a living”

        I never called you a liar either, in fact I specifically said “I’m not going to call you a liar”. I just said I didn’t believe you. You have been posting on this site far longer than I have, you say? And everyone has let you get away with spewing opinionated horsepucky? Since you haven’t posted much factual material that needed sources or attribution that I have seen, I won’t dispute that you can perhaps do it right—-I can remember some thread a few months ago where you and I were in agreement on something because you were laying out true facts rather than OPINION. If you insist that you pulled those questions out of your head, I will accept that only if you can acknowledge that they are likely an amalgam of right wing ideological talking points that have become embedded in your thought processes.

        Score is now RBT~93, Vig-0 (I AM charging you for the “No Brains” this time—they’re uncalled for).

        .

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Kevin has stopped his mindless support of Vigilant’s foolishness and has said something worthy of reply. He states some opinions, and strings them together intelligently and in a “supportable” way. I can agree with some of what he has said and accept all of it as a valid expression of belief (rather than the simple smoke blowing some on PLD engage in).

        All that said, Kevin’s question looks a bit like one of Vig’s “push” questions because it’s really the combination of two separate questions. Are we looking for programs that are “successful” or programs that are “self-sustaining/not in debt”? Putting both things in there complicates things. Nearly ALL government programs are “successful” for somebody—-SNAP for the hungry, crop subsidies for the greedy rich of the agribusiness cartels. Some are self-sustaining (even though none come quickly to mind), and others are “in debt” to such a small degree that we don’t care about it—-the benefits outweigh the costs. So the question is really unanswerable (assuming it is a real question and not just a “talking point” disguised as a question).

        “Can you give me one example of a successful government program (i.e. a government program that is self-sustaining/not in debt)?”

        • Kevin

          I was under the Impression that our Government is quite wasteful in its Management. Correct me if I’m wrong but has it not taken money several times from Social Security to the tune of around 16 trillion dollars since its Inception. I also seem to recall that Amtrak is run by our Government? Although I am not versed in the facts about this little gem I believe that it has been a loosing Proposition. and the Post Office is a mess as well. so what I am trying to get at is that in my opinion our government has a very poor track record with spending Tax dollars. yet it wants more. I would think that a serious look at where the money is going and how it is being spent would be in order before “we the people” are asked to pony up again. and I was not trying to be cute with the question or give a “push” question as you called it. I simply feel that if the current administration wants me to make sacrifices and give more , then It should become fiscally responsible first and clean its own house first.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Kevin says, “I was under the Impression that our Government is quite wasteful in its Management”. If all you want to believe is the propaganda from those who would destroy our “government” and the country along with it, that is the “impression” you will get.

        You’re not wrong that “it” has it taken money several times from Social Security to the tune of around 16 trillion dollars since its Inception—what you may be “wrong” about is who did that and why. A look at the facts rather than the right wing propaganda will lead you to an understanding that it was mainly the “cut taxes and spend” policies beginning under Reagan and continuing through Bush that resulted in that.

        Amtrak is not “run” by our Government, but it is correct that it has lost money for years and has been subsidized by the “government”. That “little gem” is something that large numbers of people think SHOULD be subsidized because passenger trains are something that benefits the ‘greater good”, just like highways and airports. Amtrak actually takes in enough to cover 85+% of its operating costs and only loses money on the long distance trains. It gets subsidies of about $1 billion a year. Highways have gotten about $11 billion a year over the past few years and the subsidies to the oil and gas industries and agribusiness run into the tens of billions each year. Romney went after Amtrak because of politics, nothing more.

        Yes the Post Office could be said to be in a bit of a “mess” as well. That is mainly due to certain right wingers imposing a requirement that the USPS pay all retirement costs up front for future retirees. The changing world of communication and computers is also eating into the USPS operation, but that’s another story.

        You say that “what I am trying to get at is that in my opinion our government has a very poor track record with spending Tax dollars, yet it wants more”. I don’t know how old you are, Kevin, but some things you have said lead me to believe that you are in your 20′s or 30′s and aren’t really familiar with what has gone on in this country for the last 60 years. You seem to be taken by the anti-government, “spend less”, “tax less” mantra that the misguided on the right preach.

        Yes, “a serious look at where the money is going and how it is being spent would be in order”, but AT THE SAME TIME that we look at the greedy rich that have been stealing from “we the people”. That’s where there is a need to “pony up”, and the greedy rich are spending big bucks to get folks like you to fight their battles for them (You don’t make over $250,000 a year, do you?). I don’t think you were “trying to be cute” with the question, and a “push” question is what it was even if yo didn’t intend that..

        “I simply feel that if the current administration wants me to make sacrifices and give more, then It should become fiscally responsible first and clean its own house first”.

        That’s what I call “parroting” of a “right wing talking point”. All of it—–”current administration”, “sacrifices”, “give more”, “should become fiscally responsible”, clean its own house” is based on twisted facts and twisted logic—-the current administration is in fact fiscally responsible, is not asking you to make major sacrifices or give much more, and would clean OUR house more quickly if the Party of NO didn’t fight them every step of the way. You need to look inside your head and separate fact from belief, what you want to believe from what the facts say is truth.

        • Kevin

          Ok so… when I speak its “opinion” “Parroting” “Propaganda” “Right wing” but when you speak its “truth” “facts”. Also your attempt to marginalize me by questioning my Life experience or the assumption that I must be young seems like a cheap shot to me. I am 50 years old and although I have not until recent began to pay attention to goings on in our government I can assure you that my thoughts are my own. I get the distinct Impression from your last message that Instead of discussing my opinions about our governments poor Management skills, you would rather try to bate me with Innuendo and (in your words) Parroting a left leaning rhetoric about how any and all current problems facing our country can be laid at the feet of Conservatives and the “right Wing”. While I can agree that Republicans are easily responsible for a large share of the blame for the condition of our economy. I equally blame the Democratic party as well. After watching a little documentary called Inside Job I was absolutely floored at what our government allowed to happen to us in the name of Profit. Equally shocking was the fact that some of the same people who were involved are still holding positions in the current administration. If by the “Rich not paying their fair share” you are speaking to these Individuals… then I will agree. I have never Identified myself as Either liberal or as conservative for a reason. I will not tow the line for either party as I feel they are the main obstacle to true reform in our Governing body. If your only reason for reply is to Marginalize me or make Erroneous assumptions as to my age or experience in an attempt at ridicule. then I am not Interested in your Words. I have attempted to give you a measure of respect you seem unwilling to afford others.
          1..As for your assertion that Amtrak is not run by the government although there is stock in the company, the U.S. Govt owns all the stock and it is not traded in any way.
          so even though it is set up as a sort of semi-official company, it is 100% government owned and operated.
          The United States Govt owns the equipment, and they hire the crews. They pay RR companies for the rights to operate it on their lines.
          2. Social Security..President George W. Bush made a shocking assertion back in 2005 when he was pushing to privatize Social Security. “A lot of people in America think there is a trust,” he said, “that we take your money in payroll taxes and then we hold it for you and then when you retire, we give it back to you. But that’s not the way it works. There is no trust fund — just IOUs ….”But, unfortunately, Bush was right. In 1983, Congress and the Reagan administration adjusted Social Security taxes and benefits to put the program on an even keel that began to build up a huge surplus for investment. But Congress decided to “borrow” the surplus instead of investing. They’ve been using it to help pay for things that have nothing to do with Social Security, things the political establishment and tax-averse Americans wanted but didn’t want to pay for: invasions, education, highway repairs and so on. And, without giving any thought to paying the surplus money back, the federal government has been trading it for special Treasury bonds that politicians used to assure us were safe in a lock box.

          Just IOUs. In a lock box.

          They are, however, IOUs that are supposed to be backed by the full faith and credit of the United States. So this year, as the Social Security Administration is beginning to fall short of what it needs to pay retiree benefits, it is cashing in $45 billion of the bonds. And because the country is upside down in debt, it has to borrow the $45 billion from China or somewhere else to make older people’s ends meet. Those maneuvers will presumably continue until 2037 unless the system is adjusted in the meantime or Uncle Sam’s credit line runs out.
          3.Post Office… as for your assertion that it is the “Right wing” or Republicans fault for the USPS being insolvent It should be noted that 2/3 of the cosponsors of that 2006 bill were Democrats, and the bill passed unanimously. Additionally, the Post Office actually got a break, they got 10 years to fund their pension, whereas most private industry got 7 years due to a bill passed months earlier which was praised by the Democrats.
          Additionally the post office was never Intended to be run in the manner it is today. it was only ever intended to break even.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Kevin, if you want to have a discussion, you need to drop the “combativeness” (or take the defensive chip of your shoulder, whichever it may be). That is the mark of the folks who come on this site to beat their chests and “show off” inf front of their ignorant fellow WIFI.

        I did NOT say “when you speak, it’s “opinion” “Parroting” “Propaganda” “Right wing” but when I speak its “truth” “facts”. Not all the time—only when you are in fact doing it.

        I apologize if you think I’m trying to “marginalize” you—not my intent. I’m nearly 73 and lived through things that you have only read about, and you yourself admit that you “have not until recently began to pay attention to goings on in our government”. I didn’t pay all that much attention either until I was in my late 20′s (when you were entering grade school. If you followed the same path as I did, you weren’t paying much attention until Reagan was leaving office or later.

        You say, “I get the distinct Impression from your last message that Instead of discussing my opinions about our governments poor Management skills, you would rather try to bait me with Innuendo and (in your words) Parroting a left leaning rhetoric about how any and all current problems facing our country can be laid at the feet of Conservatives and the “right Wing”. If you have read many of my comments, you would realize that is far from the case. I have treated you rather honestly and much more “gently” than the real fools on PLD. YOU are the one doing a little “baiting” with “how any and all of our country’s problems can be laid at the feet of the conservatives and right wing”. Never said that—-not “any and all problems”, just MOST of them.

        “While I can agree that Republicans are easily responsible for a large share of the blame for the condition of our economy. I equally blame the Democratic party as well. After watching a little documentary called Inside Job I was absolutely floored at what our government allowed to happen to us in the name of Profit. Equally shocking was the fact that some of the same people who were involved are still holding positions in the current administration. If by the “Rich not paying their fair share” you are speaking to these Individuals… then I will agree. I have never Identified myself as Either liberal or as conservative for a reason. I will not toe the line for either party as I feel they are the main obstacle to true reform in our Governing body. If your only reason for reply is to Marginalize me or make Erroneous assumptions as to my age or experience in an attempt at ridicule. then I am not Interested in your Words”

        We are inmuch agreement there, although the Democrats are to be blamed for being followers. The Republicans began all the things that have led us here, starting with Reagan, and all too many Democrats just followed along. One of the things about O’Bama that has disappointed me greatly is the influence Wall Street seemsd to have had over his administration—-from campaign contributions through the number of Goldman Sachs alumni he has appointed to the failures to prosecute those who caused the collapse. I seek not to marginalize you—-you can only do that to yourself if you choose to climb on the “conservative parrot” bandwagon.

        “I have attempted to give you a measure of respect you seem unwilling to afford others”. Again, considering that we started talking after you made statements about how I was being “spanked”.by the likes of Frank Kahn and Vigilant and making “disrespectful” comments towards me, I have been very respectful. I reached out to you, remember.

        1..As for your assertion that Amtrak is not run by the government although there is stock in the company, the U.S. Govt owns all the stock and it is not traded in any way.
        so even though it is set up as a sort of semi-official company, it is 100% government owned and operated. The United States Govt owns the equipment, and they hire the crews. They pay RR companies for the rights to operate it on their lines.

        And? Why do you want to argue about this? Amtrak’s financial problems are not due to any government “mismanagement” but to the realities of passenger trains in the US today. You should look at the HUGE wastage in subsidies to the agricultural interests or fossil fuel interests if you want to see mismanagement.

        2. Social Security..President George W. Bush made a shocking assertion back in 2005 when he was pushing to privatize Social Security. “A lot of people in America think there is a trust,” he said, “that we take your money in payroll taxes and then we hold it for you and then when you retire, we give it back to you. But that’s not the way it works. There is no trust fund — just IOUs ….”But, unfortunately, Bush was right. In 1983, Congress and the Reagan administration adjusted Social Security taxes and benefits to put the program on an even keel that began to build up a huge surplus for investment. But Congress decided to “borrow” the surplus instead of investing. They’ve been using it to help pay for things that have nothing to do with Social Security, things the political establishment and tax-averse Americans wanted but didn’t want to pay for: invasions, education, highway repairs and so on. And, without giving any thought to paying the surplus money back, the federal government has been trading it for special Treasury bonds that politicians used to assure us were safe in a lock box.

        That’s just about 100% true, and again, it was the “borrow and spend” Republicans that played these games with the SS $$$, although too many Democrats DID go along. The right wing screams that O’Bama is the “spender” in the hopes that everyone will believe the lie if it’s repeated often enough. The truth is that Reagan and Bush 2 are responsible for the greatest portion of the debt and the present day Republicans are responsible for keeping us from taking the steps to solve the problem.

        They are, however, IOUs that are supposed to be backed by the full faith and credit of the United States. So this year, as the Social Security Administration is beginning to fall short of what it needs to pay retiree benefits, it is cashing in $45 billion of the bonds. And because the country is upside down in debt, it has to borrow the $45 billion from China or somewhere else to make older people’s ends meet. Those maneuvers will presumably continue until 2037 unless the system is adjusted in the meantime or Uncle Sam’s credit line runs out.

        I ask again. And? Nothing to argue about there.

        3.Post Office… as for your assertion that it is the “Right wing” or Republicans fault for the USPS being insolvent It should be noted that 2/3 of the cosponsors of that 2006 bill were Democrats, and the bill passed unanimously. Additionally, the Post Office actually got a break, they got 10 years to fund their pension, whereas most private industry got 7 years due to a bill passed months earlier which was praised by the Democrats.

        A moot point—-the original idea to require the Post Office to so massively overfund the future pension costs was a “conservative” idea. Perhaps a way to “bleed” money from the Post Office so they could use it to finance tax cuts for the greedy rich? And private industry is not required to prefund pensions at even 1/2 the rate of the Post office.

        • Kevin

          I will agree that I am to blame for us getting off on the wrong foot and will take that one on the chin. where I disagree with you is in your assertion that Democrats are only responsible for a small measure of blame for the state of our country. when you re-post a segment of my statement “………“I get the distinct Impression from your last message that Instead of discussing my opinions about our governments poor Management skills, you would rather try to bait me with Innuendo and (in your words) Parroting a left leaning rhetoric about how any and all current problems facing our country can be laid at the feet of Conservatives and the “right Wing”…. and then you reply…..”not “any and all problems”, just MOST of them… this seems to bear out my claim….And This is where you and I are fundamentally at odds in our views. I say that all parties are at fault and that the blame game serves no purpose except to be used as propaganda and cannon fodder to win political points. to obfuscate the real Issues facing every day Americans. I am one of those Americans and I am drowning…. I live below poverty level yet I do not qualify for assistance, although I would not be willing to take it anyway. I have been unemployed for nearly a year and have gone through things that I would not wish upon my enemies. Its been a daily diet of humiliation and heartache.The only reason I am able to post here is because of a kind retiree that lives next door to me. so when you speak to me with words such as….(I’m nearly 73 and lived through things that you have only read about, and you yourself admit that you “have not until recently began to pay attention to goings on in our government”). I have to wonder at your motivations for some of the things that you post… I have paid attention to your comments on this site and have gotten a feel for your style of debate. you are quite adept at turning the tables on your opponents and portraying the other fellow as less than credible or falling short of the level of wisdom that you yourself posses. I have no Interest in word games with you sir. I am sure that you could without too much effort make me out the fool. as for our disagreements I wish you luck in your search for the truth. as I hope you wish for me.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Kevin,
        We don’t have to agree. I say Republicans and conservatives are responsible for “most” or “more” of the problems and that’s what I believe from my observations over the last 40 years. IMO, the Democrats, while hardly blameless, are guilty mainly of following the Republican’s lead in terms of selling out to the plutocracy and corporate oligarchy (and that is no small sin).

        The “blame game” you talk about is almost exclusively a Republican “game”. Look at the Romney campaign—–no real plans, no real programs, just “blame” leveled at O’Bama and the Democrats. And they have not learned and are STILL doing it. I say good to that—-the Democrats will rule forever if the Republicans don’t wake up, and I trust the Dems to care much more about the greater good of the nation and the 99%.

        The “blame” laid on Republicans by everyone is not a game, it’s just truth being spoken. You may have reasons for being whatever it is you are—conservative or whatever, but you need to look at who is just “propagandizing” and who is trying to move the country “forward”.

        My heart goes out to you when you say, “I am one of those Americans and I am drowning…. I live below poverty level yet I do not qualify for assistance, although I would not be willing to take it anyway. I have been unemployed for nearly a year and have gone through things that I would not wish upon my enemies. Its been a daily diet of humiliation and heartache”. I wish you WOULD seek out some assistance. The way the game is stacked, the rich are well taken care of by the system, and YOU and the 99% are paying for it. It’s the American way to take care of our fellow citizens who are in need and I myself pay taxes just so that can happen—-you contributed for 49 years and helped others, you should be proud of that and not be too proud to take a little back now that you need it.

        When I say “I’m nearly 73 and lived through things that you have only read about, and you yourself admit that you “have not until recently began to pay attention to goings on in our government”, I speak only of what you understand about the history of politics and government in our country, not of your personal life experiences. My father was out of work for two or three months more than once when I was a kid, but I can’t imagine how it must be after a year.

        And my “motivations for some of the things that I post”? You say “you have paid attention to my comments on this site and have gotten a feel for my style of debate”. I am motivated by a search for truth and abhor all the misleading propagandizing, parroting of unsupportable opinions, and general abuse of rationality that we see on this site (and it comes 95% from the tight). If one speaks truth, one has nothing to fear from me.

        I am only adept at turning the tables on my opponents and portraying them as less than credible or falling short of the level of wisdom that I possess because the “other fellows” I duel with are often simply not very credible and not very wise. They are “motivated reasoners” who insist that what they believe is truth in spite of all evidence to the contrary, and it’s easy to point that out and make them look foolish. I tend to concentrate my aim mainly on those who attack me—-I call it “mess with the bull of rationality, feel the horns of truth”. And when they are “nasty” to me, I DO tend to unload on them—-it’s an old USMC and school administrator thing.

        I have no Interest in word games with you either. As for our disagreements, I have been seeking the truth for 23 years longer than you—-I would like to share what I’ve learned with you and others—that’s why I post. (Although I DO admit that “jousting” with the mindless fools can be fun sometimes—-it’s a better workout than a crossword puzzle)

        • Kevin Turnage

          From everything that I have Observed and read I Do not agree with the picture you paint of the Democratic Party and the Liberal Progressive movement in general. I also Do not Agree with the Republican/ Conservative agenda that helped bring us to the brink of Destruction in the last few years. I guess I’m just out of luck because Ive no one to support in Washington that expresses my viewpoint. I did read your post and give it attention to try and see your Opinions with an open mind. I wish you well. With respect K.T.

    • speedle

      Jeremy, you are missing the whole point about “smaller government”. Government is “Inherently Evil”. That is the reason we want it smaller. Remember the phrase “Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely”? Actually I think this is a key to the great divide of understanding between what I would characterize as “Good Intentioned Liberals”, and the Statists who use them.

      You, and others like you, seem to assume the integrity of government elected officials and bureaucrats until proven otherwise. That is like assuming you can keep a tiger as a pet until it attacks you. In both cases it is the nature of the beast (and human) that must be realistically controlled. That means that we never “trust” government to be benevolent. That is the core of the thinking of the folks who put the Constitution together (folks that were a helluva lot wiser and more experienced than anyone in Washington D.C. today). This means it is not nasty, disrespectful, stodgy, Neanderthal or any other disparaging tag you might want to use for Rand Paul (or any other proponent of the Constitution) to take the position he takes.

      • S.C.Murf

        Excellent post Speedle keep it up

        up the hill
        airborne

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Speedle

        1: Government is not inherently evil. All must be judged by their actions not their titles. Government is made up of people. Those people must be judged. If a government is made up of good people and held accountable it is not evil. Rules and regulations governing a society are not evil. They can be misused. But something being misused does not render it pointless or evil. The fact that there is injustice does not mean there is no justice. The fact that there are some bad government officials does not mean all government is bad.

        2: Power must be managed and controlled. It must be beholden to the people and used as much for good as possible. There is corruption and ineptitude in government I admit that. But the solution is not to make government smaller. The fact that we have incompetent or power mad police officers does not mean we simply shrink the size of the police force. We replace the bad officers and set better ground rules for the force as a whole. The way to deal with bad government is not to shrink it. Its to reform it and make it more accountable. We need to push through campaign finance and lobby reform. We need people to be more politically involved. Above all we need to recognize that we can improve government. Only by recognizing that we can solve this problem can we begin to address it. With all due respect I see the argument that we can simply shrink government and thereby make it better as being little better than giving up on trying to reform and improve. Its as if we have decided that instead of trying to fight the fire we are just going to start tearing down trees so the fire won’t spread as far.

        3: People must be judged on their actions. I do not automatically trust anyone. Especially those in power. But neither do I automatically distrust them. Alfred Korzybski once said “There are two ways to slide easily though life: To believe everything, or to doubt everything; both ways save us from thinking.”. I am trying to find a medium between those two extremes. Where as I believe Rand Paul has essentially fell into the extreme of doubting everything that has to do with government. Doubting those in government is necessary for a free society. But to simply doubt everything to do with government still requires a lack of thinking.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        speedle, I quit wasting my time reading and or responding to eddie47, flashy, Jeremy, and any one else with totalitarian socialist ideas labeled ad “democracy” a long time ago as it is at total waste of time and energy.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Capitalist name one thing I have proposed that falls under the label “totalitarian socialist ideas”. I have never advocated for the end of private property or government ownership of the means of production. I have never advocated the end of the bills of rights. Heck I have suggested people should exercise their first amendment rights even more. How exactly do the things I have suggested come any where near totalitarianism.

      • speedle

        No Jeremy. I have failed to make my point. It seems you are intent on “humanizing” government – that is to say it is unbecoming to criticize or attack these “people” that are in the government. It is not about the people that we pre-judge. Rather it is about the power and authority that we give these people to govern over us as a society. The “government” belongs to us much as the use of fire belongs to us. A little of it can be very helpful but too much will destroy us. So when we talk about the “size” of government we are not necessarily talking about the number of people it employs (although that is certainly an indicator). Rather we are talking about the “power” of government. The Constitution was written specifically to contain that power.

        The notion of having to give other humans power (and guns to exercise that power) over us is a vile (but necessary) concept if you think through it. But the key is to always remember that it is our responsibility to “constantly” monitor it and keep it under control. The day when government loses its fear of the people it serves will be the day it will be too large to control. But none of this is going to make sense to you until you buy into the idea that “we” enable the government, and it exists because we let it exist. It is not the other way around.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Just because it says that in the Declaration…..doesn’t mean they really
        meant it. or believed it………try to understand it as “convenient contemporary
        rhetoric”……..and it still doesn’t change the fact that your problem is
        plutocratically CORRUPTED government, which means that
        “eliminating government” doesn’t solve your problem.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Speedle

        1: I never said it is unbecoming to criticize or attack the people in government. I agree that government is a tool for us to use. I want government to be more accountable and ethical, more efficient and effective and above all more transparent. I believe that is how we contain their power. Everyone of use is capable of attaining great power. Its how we use that power that matters. We the people are the conscience for government. If we the people exercise our power we do not need to shrink government in order to improve our situation. We need to rid ourselves of the people in government who are not doing their job. That doesn’t mean we just get rid of their position. It means we replace them.

        2: I agree that we need to be watchful of the government. And I agree that people should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people. And finally I agree that we let it exist. I never said nor do I believe that government lets us exist. However its presence is necessary for us to have a society. Human beings require some form of structure or laws in order to function cohesively. Other wise anarchy reigns. That is why I disagree with the idea that “having to give other humans power (and guns to exercise that power) over us is a vile (but necessary) concept”. I agree that it is necessary but I disagree that it is vile. Ours is a republic. Its based on checks and balances so that no one group has too much power. Our republican history and tradition coupled with the people are the checks on government power. Like wise government is a check on the threat of mob rule or tyranny of the majority that comes with direct democracy. It remains my firm belief Speedle that individuals must be judged individually. As such I believe we must take the individuals in government one at a time. We must take their proposals and beliefs into consideration. Above all we must monitor government as you said for how the power it has been granted is being used. I believe the power of the government at this time is within reason and within check. So for me the issue is not one of reducing it but rather making sure it is being used properly.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Galt

        1: They did believe in the principles expressed in the declaration. They risked their lives for them.

        2: Corruption must be fought. Government must be reformed. When a fire erupts we don’t start chopping down trees and tearing down homes. We isolate and fight the fire.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        You may believe whatever fairy tale you like, Jeremy……..the winners write
        history …….temporarily.

        Far more plausible is the Mollasses Act, the Sugar Act, the time between them,
        and the conditions that changed in the interim.

        Human behavior is quite consistent over time, your fairy tale is not.

        If you seek to change human behavior, you must first understand it and accept
        it for what it is.

        Did the founders believe that ALL MEN WERE CREATED EQUAL?

        When you can sell that lie to anyone who is intelligent, let me know.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        What I believe in is no fairy tale Galt. The founders were imperfect men as we all are. But the principles they espoused are true. All men are created equal. That is no fairy tale.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        I commend you for wishing it were true……..but that has never made it true,
        even on the simplest of levels……logically it is a tautology…….legally it is
        an aspiration among those of conscience and sorely tested by reality.

        It takes more than “words”, and history does not support your fairy tale.

        You would think the bible would have provided sufficient example, it
        was far more explicit……..than the mere scrap of paper and the phrasing
        to which you refer.

        We have not evolved sufficiently even now, and we have access to a lot
        actual knowledge.

        As you can see ( and demonstrate ) it has had little impact or effect.

        As I said, you can not change that which you do not understand, or refuse
        to understand. If you wish to actually change things, you might want
        get down to business at some point. You have no argument with me,
        whether you realize it or not…….

  • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

    The problem when you employ rhetoric to persuade or provoke and
    neglect logos in favor of ethos and pathos, you run several risks.

    Such appeals are directed at inflaming passions and citing common cause
    or interest and in doing so, they must be directed at the least common
    denominator, the baser instincts and NOT the intellect…….to arouse the
    mob, yields a mob……whose passion must now be focused, and this is done
    by simplifying the means by which one identifies the “offender” of the
    “common cause”.

    To manipulate in this manner risks having the same tactics employed
    against you………an appeal to a common cause, is not the same as
    an appeal to a “just cause”………..and an aroused mob, is not a reliable
    conveyor or instrument of a “just cause”.

    Appeals to intellect are rare…..I shall leave it to the reader to determine
    why this is true, but that it is true is undeniable. So what we are left with
    is a constant barrage of rhetoric designed to “manipulate”……..and a
    public which is primed for it………

    Those that have been manipulated are easily recognized……for all they
    can do when challenged, is repeat the rhetoric by which they have been
    persuaded, if they can manage that………..mostly what they do manage
    is the repetition of the “indentifier’s” by which the “offender of the common
    cause” has been labeled with, after all…..if it’s good enough for them……?

    This is the chaotic morass of the history of civilization. It has not
    changed, nor will it…….for history plays its own trick on us……from a
    distance, it appears ordered and even logical…….but it has never been
    that nor will it be……….and that is another means by which “manipulation”
    can be achieved, even though every day living is beset will all manner
    of disruptions which defy our best efforts to anticipate them, to plan, etc.

    How is it then, that we are so readily convinced by ordered and logical
    presentations of history, which our own experiences tell us can not possibly
    be TRUE?

    If we are the constant subjects of attempted “manipulation”, as intelligent
    people should not our first order of business be to question for what
    purpose this manipulation is being attempted?

    Mr. Livingston’s piece ends with a reference to “history” and cites people
    commonly referred to as “patriots”……..over time and distance.

    Here is a quote from one of those people…….

    “if it be the Design of Providence to extirpate these Savages in order to make room for Cultivators of the Earth, it seems not improbable that Rum may be the appointed means. It has already annihilated all the Tribes who formally inhabited the Sea-Coast.”

    Ah, the lessons of history………..

    • Kevin

      Liked your piece.
      Here is another Quote….
      “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”…..Abe Lincoln. it seems that History is filled with unsavory characters.

  • Earth

    Hijacked by a foreign power, America crumbles into ruin

    Written by: John Kaminski Published in: John Kaminski

    As their nation disintegrates from a controlled financial demolition, engineered environmental disasters, and medical malpractice that has needlessly cost the lives of millions, the debilitated residents of the United States — perhaps too late to save themselves — are painfully waking up to realize their country has been taken over by a foreign power.

    Their fortunes stolen by corrupt profiteers, their minds rotted by behavioral deceptions, and their children condemned to perpetual wars that never needed to happen, the shellshocked citizens of what was formerly known as the greatest country on Earth now face extermination and ruin because of the very lies they have been persuaded to accept.

    Their health poisoned by toxic medications, their property stolen by swindles that become illegal laws, and their futures erased by harmful addictions perceived as their own desires, the imminent destruction of America presages a worldwide catastrophe already well under way that foreshadows the extinction of all natural life on this planet.

    As the trees turn brown and the oceans congeal into toxic jelly, the blame for this unprecedented cataclysmic crisis in all its myriad manifestations inevitably tracks to the same source — the people who control the money and continue to poison everything they touch.

    The United States of America has not been run by Americans for a very long time, if ever.

    A half-black Jew who changed his name to Alexander Hamilton derailed the experiment in participatory democracy at the very birth of the American republic. Chief aide to George Washington during the Revolutionary War, it was Hamilton who spearheaded the creation of a central bank that forever would prevent freedom-seeking European colonists from achieving their idealistic goals of liberty and happiness.

    A little more than a century later, the mass influx of Russian Jews disingenuously claiming persecution in their homeland descended on the USA by the millions, and through their corruption of the political process and the imposition of a colossal scam that allowed them to charge Americans for their own money, began the downward slide into deception and disease from which the U.S. would never recover.

    This same strategy today of uncontrolled immigration has collapsed a functional American infrastructure into a meaningless morass of overburdened social services that has changed the very ethos of the USA from principled self-reliance into a degraded dependence on free lunches and stealthy swindling that has left the populace suffocating from its own corrupt opportunism.

    Every day at any hour, you can prove to yourself that America is not run by Americans just by watching television, or searching in any medium for any meaningful explanation of how the great experiment in democracy has been destroyed. You won’t find it. You will only find advertisements for needless products of dubious value and deliberately misleading statements about what is actually happening to you.

    All propagated by the same cynical source, the same insincere voices passionate in their advocacy of the very policies that have destroyed everything humans have ever held dear.

    Jewish TV networks, Jewish Hollywood, Jewish magazines, Jewish control of Congress, the White House and the Supreme Court, Jewish control of universities and the American Federation of Teachers, Jewish control of the American Medical Association and the American Bar Association, American cops training to kill in Israel, everyone in America being afraid to speak out about Jews for fear of losing their jobs, AIPAC and the ADL advocating prison terms for those who protest Israel’s continuing crimes against humanity, Christian denominations worried about their tax-exempt status fearful of commenting on Jewish atrocities, Monsanto (once slave traders, then weapons makers, and now in control of world’s food supply) peddling poisons, and Jewish control of the Internet through Google, Wikipedia and control of the chokepoints of ISPs and wireless networks — all conspire to terrify the American populace into fearful silence even as they are being sickened and terminated by this twisted Talmudic terror.

    The bogus bogeyman of terrorism constantly seared into American consciousness by hysterical kosher commentators demanding citizens give up their freedoms in exchange for security that benefits no one except the very rich was — in fact — actually created by the very same psychopaths who devise and deploy the hired enemies, and profit from their weapons contracts as they maim and murder gullible goyim victims all over the world.

    And still, the vast majority of Americans, deluded by their drugged dreams, refuse to name their own killers, even as they slowly die their unnecessary and premature deaths, or mistakenly blame some group of fellow victims as the cause of their demise.

    The world’s science establishment has been cowed into subservience by the financial tricks that limit the scope of their thinking and misdirect their investigations.

    The world’s artists — particularly songwriters — are intimidated into silence about the real culprits as they create the false lyrics to our morose predicament and bask in the misguided adulation of their own learning-disabled groupies.

    Everybody in the world is coerced into betraying their own principles in order to make the almighty buck, never fully realizing that this is the very cause of society’s terminal disease.

    Meanwhile, the Jews sit back and count the money they have stolen from both sides of every conflict — conflicts they have conceived, fomented and profited mightily from the disease and death they have caused.

    Even at this late date, America’s so-called intellegensia refuse to factor in the Jewish problem as the core reason for virtually all of society’s ailments, lest they jeopardize their professional reputations and personal profits.

    And in apprehensive silence, they watch with their fingers fruitlessly crossed as the Talmudic formula for conscienceless rape and pillage strangles the American dream into its final chapter of permanent unconsciousness, and endless, silent night.

    https://therebel.org/blog/item/4079-hijacked-by-a-foreign-power-america-crumbles-into-ruin

    http://abundanthope.net/pages/True_US_History_108/Hijacked-by-a-foreign-power-America-crumbles-into-ruin.shtml

    • SFS444

      And this folks is one person not helping the consetvative movement. What are a member of the NSM, skin head, muslim…whatever your psycopathic mind acknowledges or responds too, aren’t you happy with this organization? I mean they are advancing your warped agendas already. Disgusting socialist, infiltrating honest movements. Get your jew hating propaganda on another sight, we have enough with this administration.

      • Oneguess

        The last sentence of your post tells it all. Well posted. Thank you.

    • http://basque2222@gmail.com Mel Laraway

      Earth, that was quite a long – winded declamation that you issued.

      One would think that one of the many deranged Mullahs of the Islamic faith had fabricated your broadside; the Ayatollah Khomeini, Osama bin Laden, all admirers of Adolph Hitler, had the very same deranged ideas about the “devilish Jews” and their “nefarious totalitarian designs” on all of us “goys”.

      The bitter truth is, though, that Islam is at war with all of the Kuffar world, and has been since the days of Muhammad, and they are winning by violent and stealth jihad, taqiyya, kitman, and campaigns of da’wa. The current Administration is penetrated by members of the Muslim Brotherhood, and our current Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense are clueless about sharia law and its stealthy insinuation into our country. Our President keeps apologizing to Muslim leaders and keeps on shoveling money to Afghanistan, Egypt, pakistan and numerous other haters of America. The ultimate goal of Islam is to impose sharia law on this country and every other in the world so that Islam reigns supreme, and they are having great success.

      You are barking up the wrong tree, bud!

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Aaaaarghh! Earth started out fine—-the first few sentences looked to be the start of a good rant against the plutocracy and corporate fascists, and he was paying particular attention to the environment.

      Then—-DISASTER—-Earth proves himself to be an anti-semite and Jew-hater of the worst kind and destroys what little credibility he had started to build. Go away, Earth—-it’s bad enough that we have to listen to all the racist BS on this site—you add NOTHING of value with this horsepucky. Go look in your skinhead comic books instead, and fantasize about your next racist or anti-semitic tattoo—-leave us in peace.

      • Charlie

        R B T,,,
        God Loves,,,BUT,,,He also Hates,,,will it be OK with you IF,,,I hate what God Hates???
        Also could you give us the 3 definitions in The Bible , of the word “Jew”???
        Now this info could be in your left brain,,,are you able ??????????????

        • Kevin

          God Hates??????? Please show me this. I am not a christian but I have read the Bible several times and I never heard Jesus…. (you know the son of god)…… say anything about hate. and before you dredge up some old testament reference remember that Jesus fulfilled the old testament. Vengeful god does not equate to Hateful god… those are human attributes.

          • Bob666

            Yo Kevin,
            Well put, Humans hate, Jesus loved. But, we do see humans on this site preach hate in the name of god and that is sad.

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,et al,,
        Since R B T can’t access his left brain,,, We’ll give you some Scriptures to show “”Hate”"”,,,BUT,,,what level of hate do you want to see???
        Start off with a “”Curse”",,,what is a curse??? it is a “”"Judgment”"”for some “”Sin”"… Sin is transgression of one or more of God’s Laws … When Adam and Eve and the snake were “Cursed” at Genesis 3:13–24… Was that The Favor of God? OR? ,,, a Training form of Harsh Love??? What did King Jesus say about “Love” at John 14:15 ? “If you Love Me, you will keep My Commandments”"… Well? what if one Does Not obey King Jesus???
        OK,..check out what King Jesus said at Luke 19:27,,, is that a statement of Love or Hate???
        Do you have a Concordance??? The word “Hate”is in The Bible, from Genesis to Revelations… BUT,,, the word “Love” is in The Bible a lot more than “Hate”… BUT? does that delete Hate??? NO!,,, SO?,,, God is a God of Love , BUT,,,He can and does “Hate” some things and some people,.,FOR,,, His reasons…. Accomplish Acts 2:38 properly and Lawfully and you may receive The benefits of The Greatest action of Love ,God and His Son , King Jesus Christ ever did for His People… Meanwhile………………………………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Kevin

          I disagree with your interpretations. you are of course free to believe what you like.
          Luke 6:27-36
          “But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them. …
          Proverbs 26:24-26
          Whoever hates disguises himself with his lips and harbors deceit in his heart; when he speaks graciously, believe him not, for there are seven abominations in his heart; though his hatred be covered with deception, his wickedness will be exposed in the assembly.
          Matthew 5:43-45
          “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
          1 John 2:11
          But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
          1 John 4:20
          If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen

      • cawmun cents

        Mocking others for trying to talk to you about a good thing they have discovered,while attempting to use words by (eisegesis) to make their words of challenge mean less is what I would call true hatred.
        Not that I think you can ever understand these things because you cannot know what you refuse to see.But when someone gives you a gift,and you refuse to take it then turn and hurl your perceptions upon them in an effort to seem as if you know more than they do,who then does actually appear to harbor hatred?
        If God wanted to give you a gift and you refused it,then turned and hurled insults at His chosen children,spitefully attacking them using His words to do so,then you dont think that might inspire hatred for you,by Him?
        If someone did that to you would you not hate them?
        But you are right to say that He does not hate you.He likely despises your actions,but doesnt hold them against you personally.He knows that you are willfully ignorant and He has been very patient with you,despite that knowledge.
        But if you continue to be willfuly ignorant and He has a set of standards by which He must make a judgement call when all is said and done,then you have in effect made the bed you must sleep in.
        When Charlie calls your attention to this,you think that high-minded argument,and turning the Word of God against him acts in your favor huh?
        It only serves to show that arrogance and ignorance skip down the path together and both reside inside of you.That is not my attempt at insult,rather it is my opine and observation.I don not think mocking an individual who would like to share good news with you is the best ploy for wishing to be sen as intelligent.
        But what do I know?
        Apparently very little……
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • Kevin

        Cawmun….. If Posting scripture is “Mocking” then I am guilty. I am wondering what ‘Good Thing” it is that you are referring to??? The part where Charlie proclaims that “GOD HATES” ….. you write……(((“Mocking others for trying to talk to you about a good thing they have discovered,while attempting to use words by (eisegesis) to make their words of challenge mean less is what I would call true hatred)))…… so now the scripture that I posted has been transformed Magically into “True Hate”?????
        You State that I am right and that God does not Hate but he merely Despises Is another False statement on Par with charlies God Hates comment.
        And for the record…. you do not speak for God Cawmun…… you do not know the mind of God………………Example……(((((But you are right to say that He does not hate you.He likely despises your actions,but doesnt hold them against you personally.He knows that you are willfully ignorant and He has been very patient with you,despite that knowledge.
        But if you continue to be willfuly ignorant and He has a set of standards by which He must make a judgement call when all is said and done,then you have in effect made the bed you must sleep in))))))).
        So you are now Gods Mouth piece?
        Charlie has proclaimed himself to be a Modern Day Prophet. His words Not mine. I do not believe this is remotely possible. Charlie has proven by his posts in his own words that he may have Read the Bible…. but he has not understood its Message.
        Your additional comments directed at me are Unfounded and Misguided. I wish you well.

    • Kevin

      Cawmun….. If Posting scripture is “Mocking” then I am guilty. I am wondering what ‘Good Thing” it is that you are referring to??? The part where Charlie proclaims that “GOD HATES” ….. you write……(((“Mocking others for trying to talk to you about a good thing they have discovered,while attempting to use words by (eisegesis) to make their words of challenge mean less is what I would call true hatred)))…… so now the scripture that I posted has been transformed Magically into “True Hate”?????
      You State that I am right and that God does not Hate but he merely Despises Is another False statement on Par with charlies God Hates comment.
      And for the record…. you do not speak for God Cawmun…… you do not know the mind of God………………Example……(((((But you are right to say that He does not hate you.He likely despises your actions,but doesnt hold them against you personally.He knows that you are willfully ignorant and He has been very patient with you,despite that knowledge.
      But if you continue to be willfuly ignorant and He has a set of standards by which He must make a judgement call when all is said and done,then you have in effect made the bed you must sleep in))))))).
      So you are now Gods Mouth piece?
      Charlie has proclaimed himself to be a Modern Day Prophet. His words Not mine. I do not believe this is remotely possible. Charlie has proven by his posts in his own words that he may have Read the Bible…. but he has not understood its Message.
      Your additional comments directed at me are Unfounded and Misguided. I wish you well.

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,nitwit Sunday School dropout,,,
        What did God say at Malachi 1:3??? does “”Hate”" mean hate???or what’s your interpretation ??? maybe that’s a new way to spell love……..hahanhahanhahahha…………

      • Kevin

        I forgive you charlie

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Kevin,

        You have posted the same link dozens of times in the same article. If you continue to spam the site you will be placed in moderation.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

        • Kevin

          My apoligize Mr Livingston. Noted.

        • Kevin

          Correction. apologies…

        • Kevin

          Also for future reference. I will be Posting this link in response to any more Replies to my postings from “charlie” as actual conversation seems an Impossibility with Him. If this is not acceptable to you please let me know.

    • Kevin

      I forgive you Charlie. Good luck.

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,
        Luck is odds ,,,mine is Blessings,,,spam all you want to as far as We are concerned,,,but,,,you might expose your ignorance more ……………………………..

        • Bob666

          Charlie,
          As my day use to say; it takes two to tango and you appear to be leading.

      • Kevin

        I am finding a lot of evidence that links White supremest Anti Semites to Repressed Homosexuality Wow !!!! this is beginning to make sense now.

        • Bob666

          So Kevin,
          Sounds like you are connecting dots that you never knew that existed? And who would think that old Charlie could help you in the process?

          See, the Lord does work in mysterious ways!

          • Kevin

            I know right??? I’m starting to think that maybe the reason he keeps poking at me is because he actually wants to poke me. (Disturbing) I guess we will have to wait and see if his crush on me continues.

          • Bob666

            Yo Kevin,
            The “Homo Nerds” thing may have been a slip. It’s strange how many of these bible folks seem to be obsessed with he sex lives of everyone they encounter. There might just be some repressed people that we are dealing with.

          • Kevin

            Its the only thing that makes sense to me. Or they are so insecure about what they claim to believe that they must Rail against any and all descent. I am open to Honest expression of ones Belief and to the discussion/ debate of such. but I am so very Tired of the “Morally Superior” Self conscious/ low self Image Individuals roaming the Isles looking for a fight so as to prop themselves up… wherever I go. I assume this is my Cross to Bear.

  • SFS444

    This organization that might have served a good purpose once is one of the many that have gone very bad with the help of the government and infiltration by people who did not beleive in their cause but wanted their use a cover. This organization is a sham now and it is a socialistic oriented agency. They demonize anyone who questions the government under the guise of helping the helpless. In truth, they are just another hijacked pawn who appeases the government by declaring freedom oriented Americans as extremists. They are actually advancing the decay our Republic and the agenda of those of real extremists such as the National Socialist Movement and the Muslin Brotherhood and Aztlan, there are others too. Whether by design or just naive people being strung along by handlers, this center is indirectly serving the purpose of theses terroristic, violent and disgusting organizations made up of psychopaths and monster’s. Don’t pay attention to what they say it only means you are on the right course and they have set out to diviate you. Stay the course and be ready to defend this Republic just as our founding fathers did. They wereonce demonize d too for wanting freedom from a puppeteer, the English king.

    • eddie47d

      SFS444; The national socialist movement aka neo nazi’s are right wing hooligans and yes the SPLC exposes them all the time. By anyone’s definition they are extremists and racists who hang on to every word that that far right spews out. Wade Page the Oak Creek killer was one of many who advocated for violence and played out the fantasies perpetuated by the so called “patriot” movement. I’m not sure why these groups aren’t denounced instead of those on the right coyly encouraging them. The National Vanguard is one such group whom openly desires a race war. Let’s make it clear that the SPLC also lists the NEW Black Panthers as a fringe group and capable of causing trouble. They go after anyone using underhanded tactics to achieve their goal including Muslim extremists.

      • speedle

        Ed, not to address all your drivel but please try to get this “right”. Hitler and his movement were “Socialists” and Statists. Regardless of your educational training on the definition of “Right Wing”, you need to get coached up a bit on reality. You need to understand that today’s Conservative/Libertarian movement is based on the premise of “Individual Liberty”. This cornerstone belief is 180 degrees opposite of Hitler’s Nazi beliefs. If you want to make comparisons the actions current regime are much much closer to the Nazi and Stalinist belief systems than the “Right Wingers”. Get it right Ed. This is 2013.

      • eddie47d

        Until the Conservative movements openly denounce the militias,neo-Nazi’s, Sovereign Citizens who advocated criminal activities then you don’t have a leg to stand on Speedle. They hold the SAME beliefs that are stated here on a daily basis so they are part and parcel. Besides Hitler was hardly a socialist and never a Liberal. Maybe you are the one who should attempt to get it right in the year 2013! Like you Hitler hated homosexuals,real Socialists,union workers and so forth. Like Earth’s comment below a few of you still blame the Jew.

      • speedle

        You’re fishing Eddie. You say “Neo Nazis” and “Militias” (whatever that actually means) always vote conservative. Firstly, that is simply wrong, and you have no evidence to back it up. I doubt if these nut bags vote at all. On the other hand we can certainly attest that Black Panthers and Anarchists are very much involved in the democrat electorate as evidenced by the “help” the panthers donate at the polling sites, and the mutual admiration between Obama and the “Occupy” gangs (read: anarchists).

        Also, conservatives constantly denounce skin heads and Nazis. They just don’t do it on the Huffington Post (which is your news source). And Hitler was “absolutely” a socialist, and your comment to the contrary makes me wonder if you even know the proper definition. Did you say something about “Jews”, as in the Israelis that have been ignored and abused by the Obama administration? Is that what you said?

  • Mike Cain

    Jeremy,

    What you fail to realize is that when government makes programs it should not, and controls areas of our lives that it should not as governed by our Constitution, it violates our first freedoms and liberty. When men then say government is “wrong” or “inherently evil” they are actually correct. I think others may have deceived you in this regard. As Americans we have an obligation to stand against this growth of government, aptly called Tyranny (Look it up in Websters.)

    Whenever government enacts a program, there are always those who benefit and those who lose benefit, that is loss of liberty. While sometimes this is necessary, I would challenge anyone to explain to me how this massive government we now have can in any way be justified. While Robin Hood is a nice concept, the idea that people more powerful than me can take my children, money and possessions scares me, and it should you too.

    The only way to stop this is to limit the government to constitutional issues:

    Common defense
    Promote commerce (welfare) by judicious issuance of currency and trade infrastructure, which by nature:
    Secure liberty for ALL men.

    So when the government promotes Welfare, food stamps, child support and the like it does so unjustly, destroying the moral fiber of the country in the process When it regulates milk or corn or guns, and supports some companies while penalizing others, this is tyranny, and MUST be stopped with ALL effort.

    In my opinion Rand and others are only now beginning to say the constitutionally correct things, but the uneducated populace is not even able to comprehend let alone support their actions. Our “mob state” only wants what they can get from the government, taken from those of us who still have the ethics of work and justice from our forefathers. We have finally reached deToquevilles tipping point where “The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.” Welcome to the end of democracy:

    “Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.” De Toqueville.

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      To which “constitution” are you referring…….the one you “believe” exists,
      or the one that is actually in FORCE?

      http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/freeman/freeman4.htm

      Reality does not concern itself with what you “believe” to be true.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Mike I can respect your position. I would say this:

      1: There is a disagreement as to what programs the government should not create and where they should not involve themselves. The founders knew little of corporations. They could not have foreseen the types of lobbyists that now exist. Nor could they have foreseen the true effects of the industrial revolution on society. The government has to play a role in the private sector. As to our private lives I try to find some sort of balance. I think Bloomberg in New York has created a terrible nanny state which is far too big. We need to avoid that. But we also need to avoid the other extreme where government itself is seen as evil. Government is not the problem. And smaller government is not the solution. Better government is better. That government which governs best governs best.

      2: I do not support a Robin Hood mentality. Taxes are not stealing from the rich to give to the poor. They are the difficulties that come with a social contract. And in the end we all benefit in some form or another.

      3: I can agree on those functions of government Mike. But how can a small and impotent government “Secure liberty for ALL men.”

      4: Regulating companies is not tyranny. Nor is providing welfare to people who need it. Countless people not least of whom Paul Ryan have received some form of aid from government. That aid did not turn them into “takers”. It freed them up to pursue happiness and develop their lives.

      5: Giving help to the poor and under privileged does not equal bribing the public with the publics money. People have become apathetic and assumed their government cannot be held accountable. That is my problem with people like Rand Paul. The more you push the idea that government is bad and can never work the more difficult it becomes to improve government or to run it.

      6: I do not support socialism. I support social democracy. It involves maintaining democratic systems while allowing for some regulation via the government. Regulation does not equal repression. Government does not equal big government. And less government does not equal better government.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Social Democracy, is very similar to NAZZI Germany’s Fascist Democratic Dictatorship. So you admit to your totalitarian desires?

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Actually Capitalist- Nazi Germany was founded on ideas of fascism not social democracy. As a matter of fact the Social Democratic Party of Germany voted unanimously against the Enabling Act which granted Hitler absolute power. So in actuality Social Democrats are just as opposed to totalitarianism as you are.

        Here is a better definition of what Social Democracy is:

        Political ideology that advocates a peaceful, evolutionary transition of society from capitalism to socialism, using established political processes. It rejects Marxism’s advocacy of social revolution. Social democracy began as a political movement in Germany in the 1870s. Eduard Bernstein argued (1899) that capitalism was overcoming many of the weaknesses Karl Marx had seen in it (including unemployment and overproduction) and that universal suffrage would lead peacefully to a socialist government. After 1945, social-democratic governments came to power in West Germany (see Social Democratic Party), Sweden, and Britain (under the Labour Party). Social-democratic thought gradually came to regard state regulation (without state ownership) as sufficient to ensure economic growth and a fair distribution of income.

      • eddie47d

        Capitalist at Birth; Totalitarians can also be Fascists and Capitalists. That has also been experienced in America.

  • dan

    It’s almost as if being the descendants of rum running profiteers , and land pirates that
    delivered us into the bondage of the money changers wasn’t a good thing…
    I’d venture that we weren’t so much hi-jacked as predisposed with human nature.

    • John

      You must be related to a Kennedy. None of my ancestors were rum runners. They were horse thieves!

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        I don’t think the Kennedy’s did rum either, but he could be an Astor,
        or a Hancock, or an Adams, or a……

      • dan

        actually,it WAS the Kennedy’s…but only by marraige

  • Alex

    Eventually all of humanity will come to see ‘patriotism’ for what it is: a virus—a virus second only to religion in the number of deaths for which it is responsible.

    Respect for lines drawn across the Earth is a ridiculous notion. The feeling that your corner of the globe is more righteous, more important, or more deserving of God’s attention than another person’s corner is stupid. This is, after all, exactly what the Crips and the Bloods kill each other over—allegiance to myth bounded by lines found in the Thomas Bros.Guide.

    Always remember that the Soviet NKVD forces executing Polish officers in the Katyn Forest, the Nazi Einsatzgruppen SS dangling infants at bayonet’s end, and our own ‘heroic’ Marine jarheads raping schoolgirls and murdering them and their families were all being patriotic. Ask ‘em…..

    We must pray for and work to achieve a nation-less planet to which we all belong and of whose bounty we all share…

    • Hedgehog

      Alex: OVER MY DEAD BODY! It’s diversity that makes humanity great, not homogeneity!

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Was that a quippy, irrelevant non sequitur or were you in agreement
        with the author?

      • Hedgehog

        GALT: Because of the way this site is set up, I have to reply to you by talking to myself. No, I do not agree with Alex! He is obviously a believer in one world government, I am not. I am a Canadian, but if I were an American I would be a strict Constitutionalist. Your constitution is not perfect but (the original) is a damn good starting point. One world government by turning people into politically correct robots by force is not the way to go. Diversity is the name of the game. One size fits all medicine, government, religion, diet, etc., etc., simply does not work, and never will.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Your reference to ‘humanity” in response, which I imagine was as an
        attempt at brevity, introduced a bit of a paradox regarding the point
        you were attempting to convey.

        It seems to be inherent in both the understanding and use of the word “diversity”.

        We are, for all intents and purposes, the same species…..in terms of nature,
        we have not achieved “diversity”, for the variation of DNA has not achieved
        the point of “speciation”………where “homo sapiens” can no longer inter
        breed with other “homo sapiens”…….which is different than “beetles” ( linnean classification”) which have ( at last count ) over 19, 000 species.

        We are also social and as E.O.Wilson pointed out recently, quite possibly
        eusocial…….and we a stuck with it, myths of “rugged self, reliant individuals”
        aside.

        We have a far more flattering self image of ourselves than either nature or
        reality can support, and why not? Who is there to disagree with us?

        We have not done well, but then nature really doesn’t care, species rise and
        fall based on survival and reproduction and we reached out “biological
        evolutionary peak”, in these terms, 50, 000 years ago.

        We are still operating and behaving in accordance with that environment,
        because that it what our biology is tuned to……..both physically and
        intellectually. ( see The Human Zoo; Desmond Morris )

        This would be an explanation for your conclusion of

        “One size fits all medicine, government, religion, diet, etc., etc., simply
        does not work, and never will.”

        but it is not an argument against the claim of the “author” you are responding to;
        minus the anecdotal examples and rhetoric. ( yours and his )

        The “constitution” itself ( intended or otherwise ) must be viewed as just
        such an attempt to impose homogenization in certain aspects of human
        interaction………most importantly in terms of “EQUAL JUSTICE” regarding the
        things that do matter, and “tolerance” regarding the things that do not.

        To cite “patriotism”, or national sovereignty, as a point of division……and also
        capable of producing harm, is simply a re-statement of “your argument”
        with a more “ambitious” ending. ( or solution )

        Might be better to actually determine what the problem IS: rather than arguing
        about imaginary solutions expressed with certainty………or as your last post
        suggests……that there might not be one?

        ” He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past,
        controls the future. “

      • Bob666

        Yo Hog,
        I would agree.

    • SFS444

      They were socialists and globalists just like you obviously are. You need to be led, you need a puppeteer. That is because you have not developed your common sense or waken up yet. Maybe you’ve led a sheltered life, maybe its not your fault. But, I refuse to die because of your ignorance. Obviously you’ve never been in the service or you’d realize that you are just another idiot spewing what hes been spoon fed by the media or dumb liberal proffessor. If you were an animal you’d be cow or any other type of cattle.

      • Alex

        Yes—I am obviously far too intelligent to be so stupid as to sign on as another hitman in our mercenary, baby-killing military!

      • eddie47d

        SFS444; For decades our military are the Globalists who work for the Military Industrial Complex. It has come to the point where they will defend the Halliburton’s and Chevrons before the Constitution. Your insults will not change that fact.

      • WILDFIRE

        @alex – That baby killing military you speak of is lead by your master and King Obama.

      • eddie47d

        If Obama is King of war then Reagan must have led the whole royal parade. Even Johnson,Nixon and Bush have him beat by a wide margin.

    • Johnny D

      Alex your opinion is complete hogwash. You can kiss my patriotic rear end.

    • John

      Alex, your ignorance is represented by your opinions. Hitler was funded by the Rothschilds, who also funded Lenin/Stalin in Russia. In fact, Adolf Hitler (Schicklegruber), was the illegitmate grandson of Mayer Rothschild, founder of the hegemony. Our military does not work for us. It works for these same “Globalists” you love so dearly. The damage these people have done to humanity for their own profit is reprehensible. Your education leaves much to be desired.
      Enjoy the slavery your goals will bring to all of us!

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Alex the Anal Orifice says, “Always remember that the Soviet NKVD forces executing Polish officers in the Katyn Forest, the Nazi Einsatzgruppen SS dangling infants at bayonet’s end, and our own ‘heroic’ Marine jarheads raping schoolgirls and murdering them and their families were all being patriotic. Ask ‘em…..”

      OK Alex aka Anal Orifice I’m asking—-tell us all about “our own ‘heroic’ Marine jarheads raping schoolgirls”, etc., etc.—-got a link or two to share?—– and also tell us where you get off mentioning the NKVD and the SS in the same sentence with the USMC?

      Alex sort of answers that for us later with, “Yes—I am obviously far too intelligent to be so stupid as to sign on as another hitman in our mercenary, baby-killing military!”, thereby strengthening the impression that he is just an unpatriotic Anal Orifice who has no “standing” to be talking about anything much on this site, never mind posing as an “intellectual” who dares to sniff down his nose at the rest of us.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        RBT before you jump down Alex’s throat, you might want to consider
        the “facts”………see “Kill Everything That Moves”…….which is posted in
        another thread…….simple search will get you there.

        You seem to be right regarding O Manual…….I have constructed a “serial reply”,
        which should deal with him….in a similar manner to that of DavidH.

        Charlie seems to think that my equations are wrong…..that should be fun,
        provided this thread makes the weekend cut.

        Until next time………

      • Charlie

        GALT,,,
        You have some faults ,,,The Bible is written in some codes and in some plain words…Your equation IS NOT written properly per “Math” language … BUT,,,we can forgive you , since most El Toro Dung writers make things up to appear smarter………………Meanwhile………..
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Sorry, GALT

        I searched “Kill Everything That Moves” and found a bunch of stuff relating to water purity mainly. I looked at a couple of the articles that might have relevance but couldn’t find anything. Could you point me more closely to one of them? I DO have a problem with the NKVD, the SS, and the USMC being spoken of in this way.

        “You seem to be right regarding O Manual…….I have constructed a “serial reply”,
        which should deal with him….in a similar manner to that of DavidH”.

        I saw that and it appears to have tired him some. I fear that omanuel will be a tougher nut to crack than DaveH, although Dave WAS formidable. omanuel is a “crazy old guy”, and they’re the worst.

        “Charlie seems to think that my equations are wrong…..that should be fun,
        provided this thread makes the weekend cut”

        Yep, Charlie is fun—-I think he has you trapped now that he is talking about the bible and “proper math language” in the same breath. And don’t you love the “El Toro Dung writers” thing? Such cleverness!

      • Kevin

        You Gotta stop poking the Pseudo-Christian. He has proclaimed himself a Modern Day Prophet. You should encourage him to Peak In his Enlightenment and thus Ascend up to heaven on a Cloud. Which is the only way I assume that a person can be rid of Him.

  • nc

    Mr. Livingston., to attribute horrible incidents of mass murder to a group of people just because you didn’t like them before the incidents is being a little weird in the head! TO DO IT EVERYTIME SUGGESTS YOU NEED A QUIET VACATION AWAY FROM YOUR COMPUTER!
    You don’t need another column about the next “false flag”! What you need more is A COLUMN WITH some PROOF about the last ones you alleged!!! Something you could take to the courts according to our wonderful Constitution. Man, would that ever make you a hero among heroes!! Just once, Bob, just once!

    • Kevin Wickham

      Some, unfortuneatly cannot se the forest because of all the trees in the way

    • independent thinker

      nc like Flashy seems unable to acknowledge that our government is more than capable of doing something like that. See my reply to Flashy above.

      • nc

        Independent thinker, does a prior bad act mean all conjecture as to future acts MUST BE correct even IF YOUR ONLY “PROOF(?)” IS THAT OTHER PEOPLE AT OTHER
        TIMES DID BAD ACTS?
        Sounds a lot like the old Joe McCarthy conservartive red herring logic!

      • independent thinker

        nc I said the government was capable of doing such with proof but I did not say Oklahoma city WAS a false flag event.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      nc, Why don’t you leave and never come back?

      • eddie47d

        Have you bought your ticket to Chile yet Capitalist at Birth?

      • nc

        Cap., your invitation to “leave and never come back” tells me that my post have struck a nerve which is exactly why I am here! Let Mr. Livingston and your fellow knuckle draggers tell you how smart you are and scratch your back! That’s not my yob, mon as they say in the islands!

      • Karolyn

        Why does it bother you so much CAB? Is it that painful just to SEE the written word that disagrees with what you believe? Pretty thin-skinned to want to see liberal-leaning people banned if you ask me.

    • Vicki

      nc says:

      Mr. Livingston., to attribute horrible incidents of mass murder to a group of people just because you didn’t like them before the incidents is being a little weird in the head! ”

      Interesting point. Can you also explain why so many liberals attribute horrible incidents of mass murder to inanimate objects? Is it because they didn’t like the objects before the incidents or are they too just being a little weird in the head when they go out and advocate punishing the ~300 million Americans who didn’t commit mass murder?

  • Flashy

    First rule in writing, don’t let emotion override reason and rational thought.

    “it is more than likely that the Oklahoma City bombing was a false flag attack designed to bolster Bill Clinton’s failing Presidency”

    “More than likely” … seriously? 168 lives, including 19 children under the age of 6, and injured more than 680 people. With available interviews and writings of Timothy Mcveigh, since rightfully snuffed, Terry Nichols (life sentence), Michael Fortier (turned state’s evidence and received 12 years) … “more than likely’ a false flag attack. I guess that would lead to the question why the FEMA camps, black UN helicopters, Eric Rudolphs bombing rampage of the Olympics, abortion clinics, black chruches and gay and lesbian bars, the War on Xmas etc etc weren’t also mentioned as “more than likely” flase flags. Jeesh …..

    “there are those who attempt to smear the Tea Party with baseless ad hominems and comparisons to the Taliban.”

    Actually, it isn’t an attempt. it is a fact. Many designate the actions and demands of the Tea party and Religious Right comparable to the Afghan taliban. There is much in similarity, little in difference. heck, read the posts of today. Change a few descriptive nouns … and it could have been sent out by the Taliban.
    A nation governed by the overall mores of a singular religion
    Disagreement withtheir program is wrong and criminal
    Current leadership is treasonous and should be jailed or shot as traitors
    Arming indiscriminately those citizenry friendly to their cause to protect and defend against “them” (anyone who disagrees)
    War on Women
    Voter suppression
    Voter intimidation
    Openly armed walking the streets and legislatures to intimidate

    Ummm..see any difference there?

    “the journey to where we now find ourselves: living in a police state engaged in perpetual war with a bloated, deficit-riddled, ever-growing government and in a time where Senators and Americans who oppose those policies are branded as extremists or potential terrorists.”

    Wow…and i suppose the virulent opposition when all this was coming down in the 00′s included the extremists and crazies of the right? Funny…i don’t recall any of the Right opposing any of this…Fact is, I distinctly recall they were in the forefront supporting these policies and demanding more of the same. Only when this administration came to office did the Right wing extremists become opposed to these polciies they previously were in total support of. Avoid responsibility for what they supported and intimidated opposition to, that is a trademark stance of the TP and extremists.

    ” It was opposition to Bush policies at the end of his term that sparked the growth of the Tea Party in the first place.”

    Baloney. Pure and utter turkey/chicken no beef baloney.

    Mr. livingston, you can twist and squirm and call it everything and anythig you desire. you can swear up and down it’s everyone else’s fault but the right wing extremists. you can proclaim that it’s the TP and extremists who are being denigrated and are as pure as the driven snow. You can do all that and more. But you can’t change reality….

    • Alex

      I believe that Stephen Colbert proclaimed REALITY to have a “well-known Liberal bias”…

      • Flashy

        Yeah…facts and reality always get in the way of a good rant ….

      • independent thinker

        Was Oklahoma City a false flag? i have seen evidence presented that shows it was and evidence presented that disproves it. But putting that aside if you think (as you seem to) that our government is not capable of doing that you are the most uninformed individual posting here. It has been proven time and again the government will use the citizens of the US for its own purposes without any concern for their safty and well being. One example: deliberately exposing army troups to dangerous doses of radation without their knowledge. Another example: Knowingly using southern blacks in venerial disease experiments without the knowledge or permission of the test subjects. One other example out of the many: Knowingly exposing volunteers to dangerous levels of mind altering drugs without their knowledge in mind control experiments.

    • sandcasstle13@yahoo.com

      Flushee, don’t talk about “reality” until you get at least one dose in you.

      • Chester

        Sandcasstle, from my own experience, Flashy has it a lot nearer right in this case than Mr. Livingston and all the rest of the EXTREME right wingers. Truth be known, if things had been done the way he wants, I would have the same problem I would have if the EXTREME left had their way, I would no longer exist, or I would be buried so deep in some prison some place I could only see the sun when someone ran a pipeline in to me. Without getting into the fine points, let me say that I am an unprotected minority according to both the ACLU AND the SPLC.

      • Vicki

        Chester writes:
        “Without getting into the fine points, let me say that I am an unprotected minority according to both the ACLU AND the SPLC.”

        And they are both wrong as the entirety of the Constitution is designed to protect the minority (all the way down to a minority of 1). Of course this presumes that you are living in a world where there is anyone in government willing to do their duty and support the US Constitution. Unless they owe allegiance to something else.

    • jdn

      Did you speak at Chavez’s funeral ? I bet you brought a tear to the eyes of his supporters in the US and Cuba .

    • http://jmcgraphicdesignworks.wordpress.com jcfromdc

      “First, get the facts straight, then twist them as you lease.” ~ Mark Twain (ahem)

    • Butch

      Fact is, Flash in the pan, that YOU are more Taliban like than any Tea Partier could ever hope to be. A Tea Partier wants govt OUT of their lives. Libtards like you and our govt want to impose your bigoted, hypocritical views on society, JUST LIKE the Taliban. Look how good of a job govt and Libtards have done so far. And Holder WAS involved in the Oklahoma City false flag, genius. http://silencedogood2010.wordpress.com/2012/01/04/eric-holder-the-oklahoma-city-bombing-connection/ I hate POS like you, collaborating w/ the very people who are out to destroy you AND your nation and yr stupid azz couldn’t be happier. There’s a special place in Hell for people like you.

      • Flashy

        just as an aside butch…the ‘article’ you linked to stated Holder signed off on the explosives to McVeigh. let’s see if i have this correct. 1990′s. Holder is a minor functionary in DC. McVeigh is in…Ohio(?), the bombing is Oklahoma City, and the explosive used was fertilizer mixed with diesel.

        Hokayyyy….seems like a logical connection throughout to me

      • http://www.facebook.com/lisa.thompson.5688 Lisa Thompson

        You are sooo right!

      • http://www.facebook.com/lisa.thompson.5688 Lisa Thompson

        Butch, my reply about you being right was for you…not Flash in the pan

      • eddie47d

        Where was he right Lisa? Is Obama related to Caligula too or haven’t you gotten that far in rewriting history.

    • John

      Flashy, you have a twisted sense of reality. The globalist bankers run this country, our military, press, and government. George Bush jr., and his father, worked for the bankers against the American public, as does Barrack Obama. Tricky Dick Nixon, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter all have banker ties. It isn’t right versus left, it’s Globalists versus Americans. The Tea party is a response to the supposed “conservatives” like Lindsey Graham, John McCain, Mitch McConnel, and many others, who, work for these same globalists. Helping them steal our freedom and wealth. Enjoy your slavery!

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        The Tea Party is a distraction employed by the same globalists.

    • alpha-lemming

      All the typical false flags neatly lined up…. “war on women” (aka free everything), “voter suppresion” (fraud is becoming too difficult), “intimidation” (NBPs are good guys and licensed carriers should be feared), yadda yadda…..

      You (pretty ordinary un-spectacular commie…. or collectivist, progressive, lib-leftist or what ever pseudonym you’re using this decade), via your love filled posts, ARE the reason I fear your ilk. To listen to you, I’m a higher priority target for a “drone-drop” than any Islamo-terrorist.

    • Opal the Gem

      Flushy’s handlers must be paying him by the word today.

      • eddie47d

        Opal would be in the poor house then if she got paid by the word. At least try and say something rational. Oh heck just make it up (sarcastic remarks) like you always do.

  • Kevin

    It doesn’t take a genius to see the truth in your message. any honest unbiased person should be able to connect the dots here. I applaud your willingness to speak the truth that no one seems able or willing to speak. The constant barrage of misdirection and political football with our personal liberties has me just exhausted and sad. please continue to tell it like it is. I for one need the fresh air….

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002839359789 William Mdcannold Jr.

    Succinctly: We have a resurgence of very, very stupid and vulnerable Germans, Russians, Italians, Japanese and Chinese (among others) who will find any manner of ways to excuse their dependency as righteousness for the masses. I was in university during the 60′s when the hippies of the “social equity” gang were smoking pot, sucking up
    LSD, pissing and crapping in the street, living in rat and flea infested tents and boxes among the pines, burning bras and jiggling about campus as “free” women. We should have rounded up the whole lot and sent them to vacation in Pakistan for six months. They would have been on their scabby knees begging our state department to get them out in less than a week to escape stoning ! These are the same folks with whom the (younger) and illegitimate president Davis allies himself. As Churchill stated at the close of WWII: The wolf may be removed but the bitch that bore him still lives. This genetically diminished bunch of intellects has always been with us and always will be. We simply need to better learn to identify and manage them for the qualitative betterment of all.

    • Mark Belk

      What are you saying? Are you high or drunk? I have read your post twice and I still don’t get it.

    • Karolyn

      “Magname them”? How do you propose that be carried out in a free country?

      • Karolyn

        Damn keyboard! “Manage” them.

    • Vicki

      William Mdcannold Jr. writes:
      ” We simply need to better learn to identify and manage them for the qualitative betterment of all.”

      So you are saying you think yourself among the elite who are forcing a one world government on us? Your statement sounds like it could have come directly from any of them.

    • Texas Ride

      William, I get what you are saying and agree.

    • Kevin

      What William is saying in his condensed Pros is that he was around for the 60′s free love and drug movement and that these same people are now running the funny farm (Government) and that it would have been better to have dealt with them then. How he would have actually done this I cannot tell. thats as much as I can tell.

  • JCfromDC

    Bob, you MIGHT want to remove Hamilton from that end list of patriots. He went off the deep end during the Adams presidency, smeared both Jefferson and Adams, and generally made a fool of himself to both Federalists (Adams) and Republicans (Jefferson) at the time. No wonder Burr plugged him. Abby Adams referred him as the “spare Cassius” and the “cock sparrow Napoleon”. Probably the most dangerous man in America at the close of the 18th Century.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear JCfromDC,

      You are correct in your assessment of Hamilton.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

    • Flashy

      JCfromDC..interesting take on Hamilton and his role in the beginning of this nation. if you want to concentrate on his latter years, you fail to mention he was of the same Party as Adams, and split from Adams over the Alien and Sedition Act as well as he thought Adams was to cozy with the British. Not to mention he thought he was in line as Washington’s successor and Adams pulled a fast one reneging on a deal to get Adams elected in the first place. That Abigal Adams said that about Hamilton is no surprise…hamilton cos Adams the election.

      When the votes came in tied between Jefferson and Burr (Adams in third), amongst the Federalists, Hamilton worked to swing the elective votes to Jefferson. now…if you were against jefferson, you could say hamilton ws a two timing snake. If you think Jefferson turned out to be an OK or better president, you should be seeing Hamilton in a different light than you do

      Hamilton was a federalist and was for a strong central federal government. Only jefferson gave that assurance of his policies moving us that direction.

      In one view, one which takes a mistaken and skewed viewpoint of those times by placing them in this time and era and political world, you would be correct. Of course, that would be rewriting history to fit the facts as you desire.

      In a rational realistic view of the times and the politics, you would be in gregious error.

  • moses

    people hitler is in the white house in all gov the devil is in them all the whole system in possed by the devil ,oboma and queerwood are useing mass brainwashing through movies ,singers ,oboma through his speaches ,just like hitler did , so wake up only fools think this is just fools who dont know no better ,it is all a plan by the devils .

  • jopa

    The Libertarian Party and the Tea Party started off with good intentions but then their messages all started falling apart.Everyone would be for smaller government and following the Constitution to the letter of the law.Then along comes the likes of Karl Rove and the Koch brothers and the original message was lost and it seems as though the main mission was the well being of the rich.Then along comes the KKK, the gun nuts, the radical preppers and the skin-heads all being welcomed with open arms by the T- Party and Libertarians in order to gain a louder voice in numbers.The original Libertarian party has been lost and now most messages are mainly how to destroy Washington to turn it around, keeping powder dry. how to manipulate your rifle to kill hundreds in seconds, arm yourself to the teeth rather than a legislative process for your message.Sounds to me like two differant Americas.

    • http://www.stanleyfasteners.com Rick Stanley

      I was a member of the Libertarian Party until Noveber 6, 2002, when I resigned after a US Senate run in Colorado as the Libertarian candidate. I resigned because I realized that the Libertarian Party was a herd of cats, never to become a political force in American politics. The Libertarian Party was started in 1971, they were people who were the libertarian wing of the Republican Party, who gave that party it’s soul. Unfortunately, after 40 years they have proven to be ineffective, with such policies as open borders being pushed by fringes of the party. You have seen the aftermath of the government’s essential open borders policy, the last 30 years in America. Yes, Karl Rove and people like him hijacked the original Tea Party concept from the libertarians and Ron Paul, however, standing up for concepts like gun rights and demanding the government go back within the boundries of the Constitution are certainly not the province of hate groups or “gun nuts”. I personally like the Tea Party message of today. Your post sounds like the “lost” libertarians of the 21st Century: Confused and dazed, as to what you really stand for. Most of the libertarians I know, who are not “lost” have moved back to the Republican Party to try and bring back it’s soul and to influence American politics in a postive direction. However, each of us must find our own way, in our own time. God bless you and yours.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        My feelings as well. I left in 1986 after the open borders people began getting louder and louder. I really think the Republican Party needs to get rid of the Rockefeller Republicans (RINO) like Graham, McCain, Jeb Bush, G.W. Bush, G.H.W. Bush, Luger, Bennett, etc.

        • http://www.stanleyfasteners.com Rick Stanley

          I certainly understand your comments about the NEOCONS you mentioned. They are war hawks through and through, maintaining the military industrial comples that Eisenhower warned us of in the 50′s. The Republican Party certainly is a varied group of people who “supposedly” want limited government. So many special interest groups in both of the two major parties. No wonder the Police State of America is as scary as it is today. If we could go back to the founding principles…

    • Brad in TX

      Jopa you ned to turn off CNN and MSNBC and tune in every second to FOX News until you finally get what American stands for. You my friend are in danager KoolAidism and may want to stat attending a 12 step program for you liberalism disease.

      • speedle

        Jopa, I’m sure of any of the Tea Party organizations that welcomed “Skin Heads” into their organizations for any reason. could you cite an example of this? Are you suggesting that “Skin Heads” be prevented from voting, or that their vote shouldn’t count? Just curious.

      • speedle

        Too big a hurry – sorry. Jopa, I’m NOT sure of any of the Tea Party organizations that welcomed “Skin Heads” into their organizations for any reason. could you cite an example of this? Are you suggesting that “Skin Heads” be prevented from voting, or that their vote shouldn’t count? Just curious.

      • Grok

        In other words, Tune in to the Conservative Brain Washing Channel and avoid getting several perspectives on the facts that cause that Liberal Condition, RATIONAL THOUGHT!

    • http://www.facebook.com/lisa.thompson.5688 Lisa Thompson

      Give me a break! You obviously have no clue whatsoever. Neither the Tea Party or the Libertarians can be bunched in with the KKK or nazis, NEO or otherwise. You talking heads on the left show your ignorance and hatred daily with comments like what you just posted. Please stop wasting people’s time with your “moonbat” conspiracies.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Can you cite evidence that the Tea Parry is rife with skin heads and KKK members in it’s ranks? What exactly is a Gun Nut? Someone who can read, actually comprehend, and understand what “shall not be infringed” means? What is a radical prepper? Someone like me that is buying and storing canned/freeze dried food, water, camping equipment, firearms, and ammunition?

    • Vicki

      jopa says:
      “The Libertarian Party and the Tea Party started off with good intentions but then their messages all started falling apart.Everyone would be for smaller government and following the Constitution to the letter of the law.”

      The rest of your post makes it clear that you do not consider yourself part of the “everyone” you mentioned. Then again so many of your other posts have made that clear already.

  • ibcamn

    WE need to start handing out player cards with talking points,vote scores and such just to keep track of all this garbage!
    We need to set us back to less gov’t and it just aint gonna happen on the tracks were on!

    Too many cooks in the kitchen spoil the broth!…and right now it tastes like s#*t!

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    Everything Bob wrote here is true but in my opinion we/ve lost the ability to look at ourselves and see who we are. As I read the posts it is obvious that there are many people more than qualified to hold seats in government because they adhere to our Constitution in their political thinking. They humble themselves to it, don’t try rewrite it as they fit. People like the leaders of the SPLC, McCain, Graham and their ilk see them- selves as the Roman Emperor Caligula saw himself: “If I am man, then my subjects are something else. If they are men, then I must be something more”. They can think like that because we let them. When a man came to Christ asking him to make his brother share the inheritance, He said to him in essence: Who am I that I should do such a thing? Christ put himself on the level of man, and we put these people of on the level of “divine” beings. The only power Satan has is the power of persuasion, and we let him use it. He puts the McCains in life thinking like they do and us to think as we do. It was said: If they’ve got the nerve to ask, we must have nerve enough to say NO. This thinking on their part comes straight out of the communist Karl Marx’s teachings. Identify your enemies with people and things the people find to be repugnant. Word association. Our minds is what they are after and once they get those, the bodies will soon follow. I had a boss once that said: When you see a dog turd in the gutter, don’t step on it because one day it may rise up and by your boss. That’s us. We’ve let dog turds rise up and be our bosses.

    • http://www.stanleyfasteners.com Rick Stanley

      Bravo Christian American for your well thought out post. You are an educated and intellectual individual, with certain wisdom. You are right that America is lost. However, some of us are trying to find the way back to liberty. There are many posting here who are trying to do so. There are some who are here to discredit liberty, who are not only lost, but embrace the satanic hell they will one day become used to, for the rest of their days in eternity. That is their choice. Just as their opinion is a choice, as is ours. Some are correct and some are wrong. Stupid is, as stupid does… Love that line. God bless you and yours.

      • Flashy

        Hmmmm…See the Taliban. See the extremist right of this Nation. is there a difference? not in reading the two posts above there isn’t…

      • Opal the Gem

        “Hmmmm…See the Taliban. See the extremist right of this Nation. is there a difference? not in reading the two posts above there isn’t”

        Flushy that accusation is so worn out it has less traction than a car with bald tires trying to climb a slick red clay hill.

      • momo

        Flashman, I doubt the Taliban wants liberty and freedom of choice for the people of Afghanistan.

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        “Hmmmm…See the Taliban. See the extremist right of this Nation. is there a difference? not in reading the two posts above there isn’t…”

        One of the 2 uses the force of government to get their way. The other doesn’t. Now lets look at the current administration and the Taliban. Is there a difference?

        Not from reading what they are planning with things like the NDAA 2012

    • eddie47d

      Maybe you should demand a stronger TRUTH about right wing extremism and how they hold our society hostage to their way of thinking. Why isn’t there articles on Shawna Forde and the Minutemen Defense or Chris Simcox. She has killed for their cause and others are willing. How about Kevin Harpham who planted bombs in Seattle to stir up racial problems. He was a member of the National Alliance as was Jason McGhee of Georgia. He killed 4 and wounded 3 for the cause. Maybe William Holbert who killed 6 and a member of the National Alliance should be written up on. SPLC exposes them all and their dastardly deeds but we hear crickets from other media sources. Yes the TRUTH should be told yet so much of it isn’t.

      • Texas Ride

        The left can’t defend anything done by progressives. There is no defense and they know it.

        The only thing the lefties can do is try to change direction of the conservative conversation with some off-the-wall comment. These guys will go on and on with long posts that are full of crap that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Watch and read (some of it, don’t waste time on all their garbage.)

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Texas, That is why I ignore their posts and do not waste my time responding to them. They are here to take up space. I really wish Bob would cease to allow them on the site.

      • Texas Ride

        Good for you, Capitalist. I don’t read their long and useless posts, and rarely respond. But, they do get a lot of “clicks and activity” for this forum. That is of value to the site.
        I wish we didn’t have to endure their stupidity, as well. They are not appreciated here, nor will they ever be able to justify the progressive agenda.

      • Michael J.

        eddie47d,
        Total excrement bonanza… Not worth rebutting. I have worked for the Koch family in their private home, and I can assure you that they are possessed of the mindset of patriotic Americans who’ve earned the lifestyle they enjoy.

        The real question here is how is it that PLD like the rest of the country has been overrun by minority liberal ideologues, who reflect no more than 20% of the population but try to maintain a majority facade? This is a situation we must remedy.

        What this country needs is a new Ronald Reagan to lead an army of Joseph McCarthey’s to expose and destroy liberal communism wherever it exists. Won’t be hard to do because it is everywhere including your house.

      • eddie47d

        Its exactly on topic Texas Ride but you choose to put your head under the bushel basket! I’m still waiting for some TRUTH to come out of your mouth but that darn bushel basket your wearing keeps getting in the way. Is that your echo chamber?

      • eddie47d

        After reading your Saturday nonsense why should anyone believe what you say now Michael J ? I didn’t mention Koch and I’m not even sure they even belong to any of the far right movements I mentioned. Praising McCarthy still won’t get you anywhere unless you still enjoy his witch hunting policies or is that Mr anti-civil liberties.

      • Michael J.

        eddie47d,
        You’re right about my Koch brothers remark. Don’t know where that came from. Maybe I was having a blonde moment… maybe it was temporary insanity… or maybe what I was experiencing for those few moments was the day to day mindset of a Liberal. What ever it was… sure was scary. I remember knowing what I was typing was not right but continued typing anyway. My conscience was saying stop… but something evil kept driving my fingers. Thankfully it was temporary, and who knows… devinely inspired? How better to feel the inner pain of an indoctrinated liberal than to walk a mile in his or her shoes. My past ridicule and belittlement focused on tortured souless Liberals has now been replaced by pity.

  • FreedomFighter

    “George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, Thomas Payne, John Hancock, John Adams, James Madison, James Monroe, Alexander Hamilton and a host of others were our first patriots. If their idea of government is extreme in the eyes of the SPLC, McCain and Graham, then I’m a part of the “Patriot” movement, too.”

    That would include about 70-80% of Americans also, the other 20% consisting of Satanists, atheists, and socialists, Marxist, Islamic, fascists, Nazi’s and other hate groups (notice all these groups reject or deny GOD). Even then, most are misinformed of what socialism/communism/fascists really are and just want the free ride of entitlements.

    “The hate group I call the Southern Preposterous Lie Center”

    …they are part of a plan, the plan for the NEW WORLD ORDER, a world government. Actually I’m not against a world government, just against a world government based on socialism/communism/fascist principles run by Satanists. Think Orwell’s’ 1984 combined with Huxley’s Brave New World, only far more evil and oppressive.

    Their own writings describe a dystrophic society – reduction in population from current 6-7 billion to 500 million (that’s killing billions), Eugenics that divide the population into classes of masters/slaves, where the slaves are controlled by drugs, suppressed breeding, DNA manipulation to create submissive, drug dependent, physically stunted and mentally stunted workers and masters enhanced by both DNA and technology to become “god-men” that travel the stars, living forever thru technology,

    Not my ideas/words, theirs.

    Do some research – read some history, and you will become afraid, very afraid, they want you dead, your children enslaved, your decedents transformed into drug controlled, stunted, idiot slaves while they seek immortality and godhood on utopia earth.

    Reading material: (a starting list)
    Bloodlines of the Illuminati
    Bohemian Grove: Cult of Conspiracy
    Eco-Tyranny

    Video:
    Alex Jones Everything Special (covers allot of ground and his hit rate on whats happening and going to happen is very high)
    http://www.infowarsshop.com/Alex-Jones-Everything-Special-_p_780.html

    Laus Deo
    Semper FI

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      That New World Order hinges around the dollar, the dollar being the world’s soverign currency. What to back the paper dollars with since their isn’t anything in America to do that. They settled with oil. All transactions for oil must be done with the dollar. Some countries are in the fold and some not. Iran and Syria are two countries the are not, like Iraq and Libya weren’t. Russia isn’t either and it could be a problem, especially since Russia has a pact with Iran whereby if one is attacked the other will come to it’s aid.Yup! The love of money is the root of all evil.

      • FreedomFighter

        The Bible has not been wrong yet, they will probably attain world government, for a brief time.

        Laus Deo
        Semper FI

  • http://http/google MarkOwen

    This country is in big trouble, the closet muslim communists are in the very posts in government that have to be held in check. All this name calling amongst the true patriots has to stop. The real thing we have to worry about is, will our military or police follow the orders of the Obama bin Biden regime and attempt to imprison or open fire on AMERICAN citizens or not. Will they kick in our doors with their black and jackbooted NAZI type uniforms, and attempt to confiscate our weapons. Will the drones be used or not? Don’t say you know for sure because you don’t! WE THE PEOPLE still means something to me, how about you!

  • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

    Hiroshima was destroyed on 6 Aug 1945, Nagasaki was destroyed on 9 Aug 1945, and the United Nations was established on 24 Oct 1945 because world leaders were afraid humans would use that source of energy to destroy life on Earth if old national boundaries continued.

    In 1946, George Orwell started writing his warning of an impending tyrannical government [1]

    http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/

    and Sir Fred Hoyle [2] started laying the foundation for misinformation – disguised as consensus science – of energy stored in the cores of:

    a.) Heavy atoms like uranium and plutonium
    b.) Ordinary stars like the Sun
    c.) Some planets like Jupiter
    e.) Galaxies like ours

    Prior to that, Sir Eddington, Sir Hoyle and all the astronomers and astrophysicists in their circle of friends believed the interior of the Sun was mostly iron (Fe, element #26). It is, but since 1946 humans have been deceived into believing that the Sun’s exhaust product, hydrogen (H, element #1), is its fuel.

    http://omanuel.wordpress.com/about/#comment-2204

    With kind regards,
    - Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo

    [1] George Owrell (Eric Arthur Blair), “Nineteen Eighty-Four (1984)” Secker and Warburg, 1949: http://www.amazon.com/Nineteen-Eighty-Four-Centennial-Edition-George/dp/0452284236

    [2] Fred Hoyle, “The chemical composition of the stars,” Monthly Notices Royal Astronomical Society 106, 255-259 (1946); “The synthesis of elements from hydrogen,” ibid., 343-383 (1946)

    • Flashy

      “Prior to that, Sir Eddington, Sir Hoyle and all the astronomers and astrophysicists in their circle of friends believed the interior of the Sun was mostly iron (Fe, element #26). It is, but since 1946 humans have been deceived into believing that the Sun’s exhaust product, hydrogen (H, element #1), is its fuel. ”

      Criminey, now we have the “conspirator theorists’ saying the astronomical scientist industry is in on the deal against them … and Fred Flintstone and our ancestors walked amongst the dinosaur’s….

      FYI, The Sun is fuelled by hydrogen, fusing 620 million tons of hydrogen nuclei into helium each second.

      • FreedomFighter

        our ancestors walked amongst the dinosaur’s….

        Even if you believe Darwinism ( I dont its to full of gaping holes ) our ancestors did walk among the dino’s just on 4 legs

        …if you reject Darwin, they did walk among dino’s too.

        Either way Flashbang, you got it wrong.

        Laus Deo
        Semper FI

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Why do Flash, Mel, and GALT waste time responding to omanuel and his “crackpot science”?

        I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again—-I have pursued omanuel’s postings across the web and he is a “serial poster” who injects the same crazy non science on sites and into threads where, (like this one), it would have no relevance even if it WERE true. PLEASE stop encouraging him by paying any attention to him and responding to what he posts. There are crackpot sites he posts on, and that’s where he should go (and remain) as he seeks attention. His stuff on PLD is just more mud in the swamp and the W.I.F.I. make plenty of that without O’M's help.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Didn’t waste all that much time……….RBT

        E=MCC or E/C=MC or E/CM=C or E/CC=M

        Just depends on your point of view.

      • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

        No, Flashy, the Sun is not fueled by hydrogen, and cars are not fueled by CO2.

        1. Cars generate and discard CO2 via tail pipes
        2. Stars generate and discard H via the solar wind

        On page 153-154 of his 1994 autobiography, Sir Fred Hoyle [1] himself admits that:

        i.) He, Sir Eddington, and their circle of astronomy – astrophysics friends all believed the interior of the Sun was mostly iron before 1946.

        ii.) The model of H-filled stars was adopted without discussion of debate in 1946.

        If you want to believe unscientific, nonsense – that is your decision. But mental laziness will lead you to servitude.

        If you are too lazy to look up and read Fred Hoyle’s autobiography, you can read direct quotes from his autobiography on my web site:

        http://omanuel.wordpress.com/about/#comment-2204

        In “Home Is Where the Wind Blows,” Sir Fred Hoyle refers to his meeting with Sir Arthur Eddington one spring day in 1940:

        A. “We both believed that the Sun was made mostly of iron, two parts iron to one part of hydrogen, more or less. The spectrum of sunlight, chock-a-block with lines of iron, had made this belief seem natural to astronomers for more than fifty years.” . . . (page 153)

        B. “The high-iron solution continued to reign supreme in the interim (at any rate, in the astronomical circles to which I was privy) until after the Second World War,” . . .

        C. “when I was able to show, to my surprise, that the high-hydrogen, low iron solution was to be preferred for the interiors as well as for the atmospheres.” (page 153-154)

        D. “My paper on the matter confounded a doctrine of (Raymond) Lyttleton, who used to say there are three stages in the acceptance by the world of a new idea.

        _ 1. The idea is nonsense.
        _ 2. Somebody thought of it before you did.
        _ 3. We believed it all the time.

        This matter of the high-hydrogen solution was the only occasion, in my experience, when the first and second of these stages were missing. (page 154).

        Freedom, Flashy, is not for the mentally lazy. Here are a couple of other research papers [2,3] with references to hundreds of measurements that show the interior of the Sun is iron, not hydrogen

        With kind regards,
        - Oliver K. Manuel
        PhD Nuclear Chemistry
        Postdoc Space Physics

        [1] Fred Hoyle, Home Is Where the Wind Blows, (University Science Books, 441 pages, 1994)

        [2] ”Neutron Repulsion”, The APEIRON Journal 19, 123-150 (2012): http://redshift.vif.com/JournalFiles/V19NO2pdf/V19N2MAN.pdf

        [3] “Composition of the solar interior: Information from isotope ratios”,
        Proceedings of SOHO 12/GONG Conference on Local and Global Helioseismology:
        The Present and the Future, 27 Oct-1 Nov 2002, Big Bear Lake, CA, U.S.A. (ESA SP-517, editor: Huguette Lacoste) pp. 345-348 (2003).
        http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0410717v1
        http://www.omatumr.com/abstracts/gong-2002.pdf

        See also: http://orach24463.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/the-sinister-underpinnings-of-the-climate-change-movement/

      • Charlie

        GALT,,,
        IF,,,? you can’t tie in “Outer Space” with “Inner Space”,,,then you may have a vacuum between the space of your ears… Hint,,your equation is wrong….

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Really Charlie? Well now you have stated something SPECIFIC you can prove.

        Get to it son…….take all the time you need.

    • http://basque2222@gmail.com Mel Laraway

      Sorry, omanuel, but you are badly misinformed concerning the Sun’s composition. It is overwhelmingly hydrogen, which is undergoing nuclear fusion and the end products being vast amounts of radiation and helium. I am sure that NO ONE working for NASA believes your “theory” about the Sun’s being composed largely of iron.

      The Sun as well as all other stars started out as bodies composed mainly of hydrogen, which was consumed in thermonuclear reactions and subsequently the helium generated thereby was heated to a high enough temperature to undergo thermonuclear reactions to produce the heavier elements. The Sun possesses elements heavier than hydrogen and helium because it formed from hydrogen, helium, in addition to heavier elements generated from a previous supernova explosion.

      Please provide any evidence for a star composed largely of iron being able to generate any energy by thermonuclear activity. I would bet you cannot.

      • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

        Mel:

        Iron is not the source of heat. Iron is the most abundant element in the mantle that surrounds the Sun ‘s pulsar core.

        Please see references 1-3:

        [1] Fred Hoyle, Home Is Where the Wind Blows, (University Science Books, 441 pages, 1994) pp. 153-154

        [2] ”Neutron Repulsion”, The APEIRON Journal 19, 123-150 (2012): http://redshift.vif.com/JournalFiles/V19NO2pdf/V19N2MAN.pdf

        [3] “Composition of the solar interior: Information from isotope ratios”, Proceedings of SOHO 12/GONG Conference on Local and Global Helioseismology: The Present and the Future, 27 Oct-1 Nov 2002, Big Bear Lake, CA, U.S.A. (ESA SP-517, editor: Huguette Lacoste) pp. 345-348 (2003). http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0410717v1

      • http://basque2222@gmail.com Mel Laraway

        This is in response to omanuel:

        Please read the following regarding the source of energy for the Sun and other stars; it is universally accepted by astrophycisists.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      I believe you will find that the exhaust product of stars is known as light
      of various frequencies behaving as particles and waves.

      Hydrogen is an “element” whose fusion produces this radiation under the
      influence of the force of gravity.

      Since star’s have various masses, different fusion sequences are possible,
      which produce other elements, in main sequence stars, as is our sun, helium
      begins to fuse producing beryllium ( normal isotope ), which also fuses with
      helium, producing carbon ( and gamma radiation ), which also fuses with helium,
      producing oxygen ( and gamma radiation ), etc.

      For other sequences and variations there of: see spectral classes of stars.

    • Vicki

      omanuel writes:
      “…but since 1946 humans have been deceived into believing that the Sun’s exhaust product, hydrogen (H, element #1), is its fuel.”

      If H2 is the exhaust product what is the fuel and what is the reaction sequence?

      • Flashy

        H2?????? by the light of the stars…Vicki…hate to tell you this, but standing alone, Hydrogen cannot combine into H2. It needs a bonding atom .. like Oxygen.

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        “H2?????? by the light of the stars…Vicki…hate to tell you this, but standing alone, Hydrogen cannot combine into H2. It needs a bonding atom .. like Oxygen.”

        Ummm… H2 is the proper designation for Hydrogen gas at STP. Now in a star it would be in a plasma form where it is really more of a pile of protons and electrons rather then an actual element. Oxygen would not be able to stay bonded to 2 hydrogen atoms in the temp/pressure of a typical star.

      • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

        Vicki, the Sun’s pulsar core is its source of energy. The reaction sequence that generates hydrogen is given here:

        1.”Neutron Repulsion”, The APEIRON Journal 19, 123-150 (2012): http://redshift.vif.com/JournalFiles/V19NO2pdf/V19N2MAN.pdf

        2. “Yes, the Sun is a pulsar,” Nature (submitted 12 Dec 2012) http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10640850/Yes_the_Sun_is_a_pulsar.pdf

      • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

        Many readers here, including Flashy and Galt, are victims of “Ideological subversion”

        http://personalliberty.com/2013/03/13/kgb-defector-yuri-bezmenovs-warning-to-america/

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,
        You got the same problem with The Bible…………………………………………

      • Kevin

        I forgive you Charlie

    • Kevin

      Ok maybe I’m just too thick but what is it exactly you would like me to believe???? Im seriously lost trying to decipher what it is that you are trying to say. speak as though you were talking to a child. Maybe then I can have an “AH HA” moment. but Im doubtful.

      • Kevin

        I forgive you Charlie…. Good luck.

  • Texas Ride

    Sounds to me like the Republican Party is in a “death spiral.” It couldn’t happen to a more deserving group of old dogs that have their noses up the dark-side of the socialists. McCain and his “trained monkey” Graham ( I love it) are nothing but progressives by definition and do not represent the views of conservatives. This is something that has been a long time in coming, but is desperately needed. Conservatives have long been without a voice in Washington and have been kept “in check” by the “progressive right.”

    Rand Paul did a good thing when he drew attention to the imminent ability of government using drones to seek out and kill Americans on American soil. These targets would most certainly be Americans that were in the “crosshairs” of the government’s ire, and they would be Americans perceived as a threat to the dictatorship.

    In contrast, the government has plans to mirandize Bin Ladens son-in-law and give him the full legal rights of an American citizen and give him a civilian trial in Manhatten. What gives!
    The regime captures a well-know, foreign terrorist, on a foreign battlefield…but, it gives him all the rights of a civilian American? While real Americans, it seems, will not be afforded such rights in their own country but are more likely to be hunted down with drones.

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      So, which “rights” should he be deprived of? Why?

      Are you concerned that “justice” will not be served?

      Are you concerned with the nature of the ‘defense’ he will offer?

      • Texas Ride

        Don’t worry your head about “my concers” Galt. Reread my post and figure it out if you must.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Actually I expected you to be intelligent enough to answer the questions,
        provided they were not too complicated or beyond your comprehension.

        My apologies…..I often have unreasonable expectations of others as it relates
        to these things……….

      • Texas Ride

        Galt, I don’t need to answer your idiotic questions.

        If you can’t read and comprehend go on to the next post.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        I understand……you refuse to answer…….I agree. I mean why look even MORE
        foolish than you already do?

      • Texas Ride

        Galt, I understand your frustration, you like to show people that you are of “consequence” and it is not working.

        News flash! I am NOT here to answer your questions!

        The fact that you don’t like it means nothing to me…neither does your feeble attempt at “school-yard insults.” Grow-up and stop being a bully.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Texas, I said I understand why you are refusing to answer the questions.

        It is not necessary to keep refusing and I did apologize for having such
        unreasonable expectations…….hopefully, your recovery from this traumatic
        experience will not be one of prolonged agony.

  • 10Wheeler

    Herr Doktor Paul Josef Goebbels is not dead after all! He is the guiding light for the SPLC! What a bunch of nut cases that group is!

  • http://personalliberty Alondra

    Constitutional scholar Publius Huldah explains why the Federal gun laws are unlawful.

    Constitution “is one of enumerated powers only. When “We the people” ordained and established the Constitution, we created the Federal government. It is our creature…It is not our master.”

    “[A]ll powers enumerated to the Federal government are listed in Constitution … we [People] delegated only 21 powers to the Federal government.” Article 1, Section 8, Clauses 1-16 are those powers.

    Please listen her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJlQasG9a-8

    Pass it on.

    • Sarah

      The other day an attorney stated that we created the federal government and gave it all it’s powers. So, why, then can we not take away all their powers?

      • http://www.stanleyfasteners.com Rick Stanley

        We ceratinly can cut their power. It is called an Amendment to the Constitution and is voted upon “by the people”. I have called for a “Bill of Rights Protection Amendment”. It will provide 25 years of jail and $1 million dollar fine for those in government, legislators, presidents, judges, who violate the Bill of Rights in the Constitution, all of them. Can you see the process of thinking here? Google Rick Stanley Activist and you will see my credentials in the hundreds of articles there documenting my wrongful imprisonment. Perhaps something good can come of it yet… The “Bill of Rights Protection Amendment” is in the rough draft discussion stage right now, for the last week. I will have more discussion with some legal analysts who are fellow constitutionalists in the coming months, from across the country. I am attempting to get the likes of Rand Paul to sponsor this Bill of Rights Protection Amendment. He seems to be a bit busy this week… Will keep working on it…

      • Texas Ride

        Rick, don’t confuse people! I only read your first sentence and you are totally wrong.

        The Constitution does NOT give the government anything but very limited power. We don’t need to change the Constitution, we need to ENFORCE IT! The regime has usurped nearly total control and it has done so illegally. Power needs to be decentralized and the States need to take back their rights to govern themselves.

        Government has very little that it is supposed to do for the country other than represent the country abroad (only when needed) and provide national security from invaders (which it has utterly failed to do.) There is no where in the Constitution that gives the regime the right to tell us what lightbulbs we must buy or what insurance we must buy! If we are to remain a free Nation, we must go back to a constitutional government.

    • Old Henry

      Done!

      Great link!

    • Kevin

      Thanks again.

  • http://personalliberty Alondra

    Watch, LISTEN and Pass it on: Constitution vs. Supreme Court & Government

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Veao90AVLJg

    • Old Henry

      Thanks Alondra. Good link. That woman was well-versed. I passed it on.

      • dan

        agree…that gal (Halda Publius?) knows her stuff…and is the epitemy of a Patriot
        Heard her address a group in Tennessee the other day and I wish we
        could get our legislatures to listen….

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Everyone MUST to e-mail this video to Representatives, Senators, Governors, Sheriffs, to ALL officials who takes the OATH “to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies – foreign and DOMESTIC.”

        “The PENALTY GOOD MEN pay for INDIFFERENCE to public affairs is to be RULED BY EVIL MEN.” – Plato, the world’s most influential Ancient Greek Philosopher

        14 States SHERIFF’S ASSOCIATIONS and 348 Sheriffs and police chiefs across the country are saying “NO” to ALL unconstitutional policies of the Kenyan EGO-Centric Psychopath.
        http://cspoa.org/sheriffs-gun-rights/

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Do you want to know WHAT companies are fighting back against restrictive laws?

        Go here and see the list: http://www.thepoliceloophole.com/

        This is a list of a 131 companies that are AGAINST gun control and have taken the step to publicly announce that THEY WILL NOT SELL ITEMS TO STATES, COUNTIES, CITIES, AND MUNICIPALITIES THAT RESTRICT THEIR CITIZENS RIGHTS TO OWN THEM; therefore closing the “police loophole” themselves.

        Add your company to the list and Please PASS IT ON to all your e-mail contacts. Thanks.

        P.S. Yesterday I checked – it was 126 (3/10/13) companies.

    • Kevin

      Thank you for your link I enjoyed it very much. more please.

  • Sarah

    Mr. Livingston. God bless you. You speak out with the truth and tell it so sincerely. I have enjoyed many of your articles and this is just one more.

    I have children and grandchildren. I confess that I spent the last 40 yrs. busy with my life and took no notice to politics. Oh, I voted for president. Obama woke me. I know what is happening and so sorry to know that some Americans still don’t get it. Papa Bush was a founding member of the Trilateral Comm. Obama’s administration has 5 members of the Trilateral Comm, 9 members of the Bilderbergs and 10 members belonging to Council on Foreign Relations. Please, look these up. They are New World Order Globalists Organizations. They are extremely powerful. The only obstacle in their way of World dominance is Israel and America. Why? Because we have weapons. We must never let them take them away from us. We believe in God and they can’t take that away from us.

    I have discussed all this with my children and they seem to feel that something has to be done. It must be done at this point in time because I see my grandchildren plugged into all their toys and they seem to not know or care about what happens to America. It is this generation that must do something now or America is gone forever.

    • Old Henry

      Sarah, check out the link I posted above. It will help in your understanding of what is, and has been, going on and why.

      For the love of money is the root of all evil.

      On Saturday I was ruminating about our sad state of affairs and how it will affect my kids in coming years, but most importantly my grandchildren. I used to put faith in the elecoral process. No longer. More and more I am coming to the realization that a civil war is going to be our only option. And given our soft self-centered nature I do not think the American people are up to the task.

      However – better to die a free people than die as a slave, but that still does not help our grandkids…

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        For something that is the “root of all evil”, Y’all spend a lot of time
        talking about it. ( while pretending to be talking about something else.)

      • TIME

        Dear People,

        The ROOT of all evil is – not money, no ~ its in fact ~ “POWER” – How can one acquire POWER?
        By way of Money, as there is always someone who will do anything for a little money.

        Thus we are all Prostitutes as we work for ~ “MONEY” – we set the value standard by what amount we will work for, thus they who print the money then set the standard of what they want of you, to get said money.

        Whats really Sad – is that in most cases you are working to destroy yourself, yet you think its for some benifit to make all well ~ to heal the sick, saddly this well crafted propaganda – is infact written by Prostitutes that do that special job.

        If you can all step back and look at Politicians as rental cars – they then become far more obvious in their game.
        As in if the people who print the money tell them they will rent them and pay them enough money to run for office, the money makers get what they want and the rental politicians get what they want, { the illusion / delusion of power .}

        So, whats broken and how to fix it?

        Whats broken is that we as a nation have no “moral code” ~ thus we have allowed our moral codes to be set by “Rental Politicians”

        BTW ~ Who don’t work for your interest they work for who really pays them as well of course themself.

        When and only when the American people wake up to this TRUTH, can you start down the road of FREEDOM again.

        Saddly the real Law of the land has been sitting on a dusty shelf for over 160 years now, of what oddly most Americans are clueless about that little fact. And will not yield to it even when shown it as clear as day. Thus, the end result will be rusty chains of bondage that will enslave all Americans with equal measure, due to the good v bad ~ Prostitute mentality we all have been sold.

        Peace and Love, Shalom

        • http://www.stanleyfasteners.com Rick Stanley

          Lets see…power, money, prostitution. It appears you have too much “time” on your hands. You are over analyzing our society, politicians, the difficulties we in Ameria face. Take a deep breath, count to ten, smell the flowers, take another deep breath and go back and visit with your psycho-analist once again. Yes, there are people who want power. Most are pretty evil. Some have good intentions and they are just evil by accident. But to compare all of us in America to prostitutes, because we are willing to work for money to feed our families and to provide a future for our children is pure unadulterated crap. Have a nice day and please sir, go back to your analyst, who obviously needs your money.

      • TIME

        Dear Rick,

        I see your totaly indoctronated into the “mindless sheep” class, as in the ones who’s comprehension skills are non existent. This is quite obvious as per your feckless discourse of what displays the face of the problems with America today. “Illiterate ignorance.”

        But non the less I do wish that someday your eyes will open to the larger view ~ as in get out of your tight small minded box, and grow some gray matter.

        God Bless you; may the Chirst keep you safe from yourself.

        Peace and Love, Shalom

  • Old Henry

    Speaking of perpetual wars here is a link to a 43 minute presentation showing why we have not only the current wars, but all the wars over the last 200 + years. It is very informative and well worth the time.

    http://www.realecontv.com/page/22089.html

    • dan

      EXCELLENT and highly recommended…should be viral

      • Texas Ride

        Old Henry, that is an excellent video and something of great interest to me as I believe the Federal Reserve Banks and their private owners own this country and have said so many times.

        This country needs to rid itself of these Central Bankers and establish our own “State Issued Currency” instead of buying worthless paper printed by these self-annointed world rulers.

        These Federal Reserve bankers keep control of the countries of the world by the “Rule by Debt.” Wars are created against any country or leader that will not submit to the Central Bankers. These are the “globalist elites” that own our country and are the “Shadow Government” that is referred to by many. Americans are beginning to understand that this country is NOT their own. We must take America back and abolish the rule of the Federal Reserve owners. They are not part of our government, but they rule Washington.

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Texas, you write: “This country needs to rid itself of these Central Bankers and establish our own ‘State Issued Currency’”

        Texas, America needs her Putin.
        1) “When Putin was elected president of Russia in 2000, Russia was BANKRUPT. Russia owed $16.6 billion to the Rothschild-run International Monetary Fund while her foreign debt to the Rothschild-controlled Paris & London Club of Creditors was over 36 billion dollars.” By 2006 Putin had PAID OFF Russia’s DEBT to the Rothschilds. Russia’s financial dependence on the foreign financiers was now OVER.

        2) Putin issued international ARREST WARRANT for Rothschild & Financial TERRORIST George Soros. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFumSJCiioc

        Watch the video and you’ll understand why Greece in mess & financial chaos.
        Now the terrorist Soros and also the Rothschilds & the Rockefellers can’t continue the evil speculations that has devastated the entire GLOBAL FINANCIAL SYSTEM.

        3) Putin wins the battle for Russian oil over the Rothschilds and removes him and all his minions from Russia and sends the Rothschild’s agent (Mikhail Khodorkovsky) behind the bars for 14 years.

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Putin exposes the NOW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr5GxN3C8uw

        “Putin’s Prepared Remarks at 43rd Munich Conference on Security Policy”

        Putin: “This conference’s structure allows me to avoid excessive politeness and the need to speak in roundabout, pleasant but empty diplomatic terms. This conference’s format will allow me to say what I really think about international security problems … international security comprises much more than issues relating to military and political stability. It involves the stability of the global economy, overcoming poverty, economic security and developing a dialogue between civilizations.”

        “This universal, indivisible character of security is expressed as the BASIC PRINCIPLE that ‘SECURITY FOR ONE IS SECURITY FOR ALL’.”

        “It is world in which there is ONE MASTER, one sovereign [self-determining]. And at the end of the day this is pernicious [bad, malicious, wicked, evil] not only for all those within this system, but also for the sovereign itself because it DESTROYS ITSELF FROM WITHIN.
        And this certainly has nothing in common with DEMOCRACY. Because, as you know, DEMOCRACY IS THE POWER OF THE MAJORITY IN LIGHT OF THE INTERESTS AND OPINIONS OF THE MINORITY … WE ARE CONSTANTLY BEING TAUGHT ABOUT DEMOCRACY. But for some reason those WHO TEACH US DO NOT WANT TO LEARN THEMSELVES.”

        “I consider that the unipolar model is not only unacceptable but also impossible in today’s world … What is even more important is that the model itself is flawed because at its basis there is and can be NO MORAL FOUNDATIONS for modern civilization.”

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        How do you think WHY the current American regime hates Vladimir Putin?

        In January of 2009 Vladimir Putin gave a speech at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, which was “ignored” by the West’

        Putin gave insightful and helpful advice to help the world economy and saying the WORLD SHOULD AVOIID the Soviet mistake:

        “There is a temptation to expand direct interference of state in economy. In the Soviet Union that became an absolute. We paid a very dear price for that,” – Putin said.

        “Excessive intervention in economic activity and blind faith in the state’s omnipotence is another possible mistake … In the 20th century, the Soviet Union made the state’s role absolute. In the long run, this made the Soviet economy totally uncompetitive. This lesson cost us dearly. I am sure nobody wants to see it repeated.” – Vladimir Putin

        “There is no reason to believe that we can achieve better results by shifting responsibility onto the state.” – Vladimir Putin

        “The unjustified swelling of the budgetary deficit and the accumulation of the national debt are just as destructive as adventurous stock-jobbing (market game).” – Vladimir Putin

        In 2012 elections the Communists have won in America with Obama, but they miserably failed in Russia, received only 17% of the votes.

        Vladimir Putin was re-elected as President keeping the NWO order out of Russia while America continues to repeat the Soviet mistake.

    • Kevin

      This was very Informative and Information that I was completely unaware of. thank you for sharing.

  • Sarah

    Mr. Livingston. Sitting here and posting is not going to get the job done. I have written, called and gone to Wash, DC to protest. I was in the crowd when they signed ObamaTax into law. No matter what you do, nothing seems to make a difference.

    The globalists are seeing that America is getting annoyed with Obama so they have told him to MAKE NICE with the Republicans. They don’t want anything to mar the reputation of the Democrats. They want America to like Democrats. They want to give us a REAL CHOICE come 2016. The REAL CHOICE will be JEB BUSH OR HILLARY CLINTON both NWO Globalists/Marxists. Some choice, huh? We can’t let this happen. There must be something we can do.

    • http://aol CommonSense4America

      Rand Paul

    • nc

      Sarah, you just hang in there and you “two percenters” will have your President in 2016!!!! That is if the other two parties decide to just drop out! Don’t hold your breath! It has been this two party system since before the Civil War! You want a winner?? Pick the Democrat!! See “Bulls, bears, Donkeys and Elephants” ! That’s all you need to know!! That’s the history of this country for our last 80 years!!

      • Liberals are useless

        nc must stand for NO CLUE, Bilhary campaigned for the LIAR Messiah, so she is the DummieCrap candidate for 2016, As for the Republiturd, who knows who that will be, hopefully NOT some RINO, 2014 Vote out ALL DummieCraps and Rino’s and continue till we have a Constitutional minded Government.

      • Texas Ride

        nc, your credibility is blown every time you utter your nonsense. The two-percenters crap is another talking-point. The left must be desperate.

        Get lost.

    • Texas Ride

      We no longer have dems and pubs, what we have is “One World Progressives” and others! The “others” are split into many different groups and are ineffective, exactly what the One Worlders are counting on to take the country.

      When have you ever seen Republicans so ready to dump on other Republicans. McCain is a progressive and he has his toes on the “obama line.” Boner (mispelled on purpose) isn’t too far behind. McCain and the other progressives in the Republican party are so busy “slapping down” the conservative Republicans that they are probably exhausted. I just think it is ludicrous to talk about any other elections. We haven’t chosen our presidents in decades.

    • Kevin

      This is the question I am stuck with as well. If your not upset then your not Paying attention.

  • JUKEBOX

    Back in the mid 60′s, I was traveling with Gov. Wallace when he was running for President, and he was constantly referring to pseudo intellectuals. I did not fully comprehend what he meant at the time, but I later realized he was talking about people like these at SPLC. On a later visit to the Governor’s office, I was appalled to see the opulent offices of the SPLC, and realized what a bunch of duplicitous hypocrites these individuals are. Potok could star in a Sci-Fi movie without any makeup. I would be frightened to meet him on a dark night.

    • Karolyn

      Figures you would be traveling with Wallace.

    • Charlie

      Did you or Wallace ever figure out that the “Group” called the SPLC are Edomite jews ???

  • http://Arkybill.cominprogress Bill Henry

    Who can argue that the principles upon which this country and its government were founded were and are not concievably the most propitious thus far conceived by the human mind. It certainly cannot be argued that it is not the longest lived government of its kind. I consider the founding of this country and its government as having been established at Lexington and Concord when the first shots of the Revolutions were fired, with its first document of government being the Declaration of Independence. No one can argue that more poignant words were ever penned. It united a people in a common cause sic, liberty and freedom. In study it can further be ascertained the intentions of the framers of these documents.

    It has been argued that these documents were specious in their application to “all men”, but this argument does not take into consideration the times. There can be little doubt that the framers were conscious of the fact that slave holding was a direct affront to these documents, and one of the major reasons for an outright abolishment of the practice was a fear that it would adversely affect the union of the colonies into one country. As history records, a boiling point was reached with the result being the Civil War, but even that with the “Emancipation Proclamation” was not a final solution to the question, or there would have been no reason for the civil rights movement, and even at that we were left with rampant prejudices and outright racism. Racism if proven is correctable by law, prejudice, on the other hand is a feeling, less amenable to legal actions.

    It is here that we reach the breach in mindset that divides the two major factions of the political make up of the country, liberalism and constitutional republicanism. Given the history of our Constitution and its longevity, it can agruably be the best form of government for the country, and given the state of the rest of the world, how could we possibly be considering becoming apart if that situation, which is fractious to say the least. It has been proven that we can solve our major problems with the document at hand, the Constitution, which is amendable to govern our actions in any situation. The question then becomes what do we do about the way people feel about other people. The answer to that question cannot be legislated, it must be solved with light and truth.
    There is no other way.

    I can only state my point of view, and that is that the Constitution of the United States of America is our governing document as written. We cannot dictate to people as to how they think. That has to be their problem, right or wrong. I have no argument with helping those who are in need of help, but that help should be dependent on how much they are helping themselves. There could have been no one in more need of help than my family when I was growing up, but we were taught that to help ourselves would lead us to prosperity and a fulfillment of our human needs, and that the harder we worked at it the more promising was the reward. That is what the “The American Dream” was all about to us. We could reach whatever plateau that satisfied us, but we still had the ability, through hard work, to reach even higher. The emphasis was on education to aid us in reaching our goals. It is for these reasons that I think the Constitution is worth fighting for and preserving, and that cannot be done without the necessary means to do it with, and that means is provided by the Second Amendment, as it was meant to be by the framers.

    We in this country have lost sight of our long history as a united people. We have become a society driven by the necessity of instant gratification. We easily give up our rights, such as free speech, free press, religious freedom, property rights, and owning the product of our own labor. Jealousy and envy have taken the place of hard work and determination. We must couch our speech in such a manner as not to offend anyone, which I will argue is not humanly possible. Our press has lost its sense of reporting the news and has become the mouthpiece for a particular political view. We cannot practice a religion without ridicule. We can have our property confiscated in the name of “the good of the most people”. We cannot become successful in our business ventures without invoking jealousy and envy of those less fortunate than us but for their ambitions.

    It seems that we have reached a fork in our historical path. One path leads to liberties and freedoms we have enjoyed since the inception of the country, and the other leads to subjugation by others with malevolent intentions. My choice is the former for it is the most worthy of causes, as I spent 20+ years of my life betting my life on it, and I have absolutely no intention of bending willingly to the latter. So call me what you will. “Patriot” is a title I will wear proudly to my grave if need be. I show respect and reverance for those who have fallen in the founding and defense of our nation and other nations of the world seeking what we have in this country by flying “Old Glory” from the front of my house, above all other structures, so that she can be seen from the major highway nearby and by nearly all in the neighborhood. I do this because I am a proud American, and I am proud of all Americans who uphold the history, documents, and principles upon which this country was founded, and I am proud to call them compatriots. In the immortal words of the man who bears my given name “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.”

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      As long as you can identify the “principles” you might have a case.

      Might be harder than you think…….The Declaration was the second document,
      the Constitution was the fourth……..and history is far more complex and chaotic
      than whatever you believe you understand. ( following the money is always a
      good start. )

      ” He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past,
      controls the future. “

      • Bill Henry

        Let’s just put it this way Galt. You are what you are, and I am what I am, and ne’re the twain shall meet. BT AR

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        One can hope……..and I am here.

        You leaving?

    • http://www.stanleyfasteners.com Rick Stanley

      Well Bill Henry, I thought your commentary was “sweet”. God bless you and people like you. There are many good Americans here. Unfortunately, there are some who are not. Those of us who are good Americans, we can see those who are like minded. It is self evident. Those who want to destroy America, the founding documents, and change America to progressive liberal socialism are CRIMINALS. They want to STEAL from us through the power of the government, which the majority sadly gives license today to steal our hard earned livelihoods, stealing from our families to give to others. They steal our rights and call us names like the “taliban”, because we believe in freedom and liberty. The CRIMINAL element is all around. We see them for what they are…

      • Bill Henry

        Thanks Rick, but it was not my intention to be “sweet”. I’m as serious as a heart attack.

        • http://www.stanleyfasteners.com Rick Stanley

          Thank you for your comments Bill. “Sweet” was a bit of reference to the last sentence in your post, in which you used the word “sweet”. You are good man and patriot Bill Henry. God bless you and yours.

    • Texas Ride

      BH The only thing I got in all you wrote is that you are a reverse racist. Racism is really low on my list of things to worry about. Stop beating a “dead horse.” Blacks are more racist than whites and the biggest racist in the country is that brown/black/muslim guy in the oval office! He has divided the country more than ever.

      I don’t know anyone that was ever a slave and I don’t know anyone that has ever owned slaves! Get over it! Frankly, I don’t care one way or the other about slavery. All countries have had slaves and the middle east and african countries still keep slaves. People are bought and sold everyday. Why isn’t someone talking about that!

      It was a sad day that blacks were ever brought into the country. They were too expensive to keep back then and they are still too expensive to keep today! The only thing that has changed is that no one makes them work any more and we are buying them cell phones.
      Oh, yes, and we pay them to reproduce. We didn’t used to have to pay for that.

      Why should any country make laws, proclaiming it illegal for citizens to dislike another citizen? Talk about loss of personal freedom! People like you will never tell me who to like or dislike.

      • Bill Henry

        Hit a nerve did I Tex? I generally take a man for what he is and show him the dignity and respect that he earns, and that lasts as long as he is deserving of it. I would by no stretch of the imagination try to tell you who or what you should like. I was merely countering the argument that some people, mostly liberals, use the fact that because our forefathers owned slaves that somehow makes their thinking and writing hypocritical and of no value. It is rapidly approaching the time when all of us who cherish our liberty will have to stand together and make an attempt to regain it, no matter who or what we are.

      • Texas Ride

        BH, you sounded like one of those with “White-guilt apologists” that will lean over backwards to appease any stupid racist cause! People like you keep racism alive.

        Because of people like you, demonrats are given cause to call ANY criticism of obammie, racism! You and others that spout off about racism are part of the problem.

        The focus for conservatives is that obammie and his goals are EVIL and that is what NEEDS CRITICISM. Delete the Sunday school rhetoric. It has no place in politics, if you are in a fight. When Christ comes back, he will come back as a warrior. Christians will be called on to fight for what they believe and it won’t have a damn thing to do with racism.

        BTW how do you call a country racist when it supports Millions of blacks so they don’t have to work and it pays them to breed.
        As a taxpayer, you bet that “hits a nerve.” Obviously you are not a “working American” and you don’t have your money confiscated for welfare payments.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Bill Henry learns a lesson on what happens when one talks to Texas Ride as if TXR had a brain, or any sense of common decency, or any sense of patriotism, or any belief in what the country stands for. Keep trying, Bill—-that is if you like talking to rocks—-I have some in my yard that I talk to and they listen more than TXR is ever likely to do.

        (and if anyone hasn’t noticed, TXR has yet again given us a live demonstration of what it means to be a bigot and a racist)

    • Kevin

      I find myself in agreement with your post other than the part where you speak of “liberalism and constitutional republicanism” I hold all parties responsible for the current state of our Nation. and am of the opinion that Democrats and republicans are the main obstacle to any true reform of our governing body. ……with respect…. K.T.

  • ONTIME

    Believing in God, Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, making a profit, capitalism, freemarket, Bill of Rights, Constittution and the 10 Commandments are just some of the hokey things the libs cannot abide and will in their intolerant thinking dismiss and demonize you for having such thoughts and beliefs….I never liked libs anyway..remind me of the cult islam.

    And thank You Bob for providing us Gunz, God and Bible clingers a space to respond…

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      Yeah, that is so cool…..good Bob, pat pat……

      Seriously dude…..you can be an idiot anywhere…..;try it.

    • Kevin

      If your looking for tolerance these days its in very short supply (especially from those that scream loudest for it)

  • JeffH

    “We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”
    - Barack Obama

    “The disruption of the present organization is the first step toward community organization…. All change means disorganization of the old and organization of the new.”
    - Rules for Radicals (excerpts here) by Saul Alinsky, the Marxist “organizer” whose disciples mentored Obama.

    “People of all ages, stations, and skills will be asked to serve…. I will set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of service a year, and for all college students to perform 100 hours of service a year.”
    - Barack Obama

    “A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced because they love their servitude. To make them love it is the task assigned… to ministries of propaganda, newspaper editors and schoolteachers.” – Aldous Huxley

    “Social chaos is the GOAL for the transformational Marxist. The crisis of crime and disorder is the door for the … facilitator/change agent to enter the community and to initiate the paradigm shift! Even though these social architects plainly admit what is most vital in making for a crime free community, they have absolutely no intention of restoring ‘individual conscience’ or going back to repairing the traditional family. On the contrary, for the past sixty years these socio-psychologists have been introducing these very dialectic concepts into our school system with the intent of demolishing personal conscience….”
    - “Community Oriented Policing,” by Phillip Worts, a detective with the San Diego Police Department

    • jopa

      Jeffh; We cannot rely on our military so we have you for backup.Hell I thought you shot your eye out right after Christmas.

      • JeffH

        “If you couldn’t say something stupid you’d have nothing at all to say.” quote – the National Enquirer

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        JeffH, General Boykin says: The Kenyan FRAUD = Hitler. The CHARLATAN is modeling Hitlers regime.

        Lesten General Boykin:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0wmw8zw2LA&NR=1&feature=endscreen

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        “WISE men speak because they have something to say; IDIOTS because they want to say something.” – Plato, the world’s most influential Ancient Greek Philosopher

        Jopa aka Ass, can you keep your liberal STUPIDITY inside you?

        Ron White said: “You Can’t Fix STUPID. STUPID is FOR-EVER”.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gxKStPXyn8)

        Jopa/Ass, I am agree with Ron White and I think JeffH is also agree.

        P.S. Jopa/Ass, when you will watch the Video, please click on the “Thumb Up”.
        Thank you dear.

      • sam1966

        The personal attack. Classic 5th column strategy. Jeff H is correct and you are just upset because you can’t prove him wrong. Here is something from Jopa’s version of good ol’ southern boys.

        http://www.freedomoutpost.com/2013/03/splc-letter-to-doj-dhs-patriot-groups-pose-domestic-terror-threat/

        These may even be Jopa’s family members. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves Jops out.

        “It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be greatful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.”

        George Washington

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Jeffy shot his eye out after Christmas? How unfortunate! I guess the bullet didn’t get through to the cranial cavity, not that it would matter much because Jeffy’s brain doesn’t take up much room in there and chances are the bullet would have missed. And Jeffy has brought Alondra along for “backup”. Wonderful, let’s get ready for some REALLY great commentary. (Jeffy is already starting to muddy the waters with this collection of quotes).

    • Kevin

      Where did your quotes from Obama come from? I am Interested in reading more on this. very disturbing if true.

      • robbiefine@hotmail.com

        It’s not disturbing at all. It’s actually quite wise. What the president is saying is that America cannot solve every world issue by bombing this country or that. He’s right for God’s sake. Wake up from being an international bully and worse.

        • Kevin

          Your Opinion is noted but I was spaeking to someone else. Thanks.

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Kevin the following Kenyan FRAUD’s quote was made on July 2, 2008 in Colorado Springs, CO:

        “We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
        In the description there is the link for his full speech.

        Kevin, Also Google article “Graduation held for first class of FEMA Corps grads in Anniston” with the CBS News Video.

        On September 13, 2012, the Department of Homeland Security graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth, aged 18-24 (FEMA Corps first-responders)and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers. They represent the first wave of DHS’s youth corps, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country.

    • Kevin

      Thank you Alondra

  • jopa

    Breaking News from Breitbart; Paul Krugman files for chapter 13 bankruptcy.

    • mark

      This is a totally false story that Breitbart.com fell for hook, line, and sinker as have thousands of conservatives and libertarians. It is amazing how people just accept anything they read on a political blog that feeds into their own prejudices. A total plant, an Onion-like satirical piece and thousands of extremists lemmings bought it. Never even bothered to do 20 seconds worth of on-line research which would have revealed it for the total lie that it is. Unreal but typical of the loony right.

      • sam1966

        The truly looney one here is you Mark. I haven’t heard any patriot talk about hunting people, but is seems that Dianne Feindyke has said it is OK to do so.

        http://www.freedomoutpost.com/2013/03/dianne-feinstein-it-is-legal-to-hunt-humans-2/

        Looks like the left are the wackos. But alas! This is what the 5th column is all about. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

        “July 4th ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”

        John Adams

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        “I’ll drink to THAT!!!!!” John Adams

        who started each day drinking hard cider.

        Madison did a pint of hard whiskey a day……..

        and was the only one who managed to take NOTES….at that
        illegal conclave in 1787.

        editing is EVERYTHING!

      • jopa

        mark; You were right on this one, I should have known.Itseems as though every week at least one or two bogus stories come out from this bogus site.Thank you for the good work.

  • Yes, mein Fuhrer!

    Heres how its going to go under Barry “Mans Country, Chicago, Illinois) Soetoro’s administration: Homeland Security will show up at your door. “We demand you surrender “blank.” (Whatever they want). “If you dont surrender it, we will pull away from your house and instruct Control to surgically strike you with the drone. Do not leave your house….we will shoot you as you try. Now, comply!” This is Amerika under the MUSLIM HOMOSEXUAL.

    • http://naver samurai

      You are right. Of course, we are still waiting for true answers about Benghazi. But alas! He will never tell. Maybe one of the people there was a gay lover? Here is a video where a representative is wanting answers and blames Obama bin Laden for doing nothing to prevent it.

      http://www.politichicks.tv/column/rep-gohmert-on-benghazi-people-were-being-slaughtered-we-did-nothing-about-it/

      FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

      You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

      “A patriot must be a religious man.”

      • http://www.stanleyfasteners.com Rick Stanley

        I have noticed that those who are patriots to the liberty and freedom expoused in the Constitution also appear to be religious men and women. Whether it is self evident is another matter. However, I am a religious man who believes in the bible, who is a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, and some have said that I am a Patriot, a throwback to the forefathers. A dinosour I am… God bless the patriots and producers of America.

      • sam1966

        Well said Rick. I guess that makes me one also. Here is something talking about one of the many lies of the 5th column about separation of church and state.

        http://www.freedomoutpost.com/2013/03/the-lie-of-separation-of-church-and-state-the-u-s-supreme-courts-usurpation-of-power/

        I keep telling them this is a lie, but it is only said against Christians, church, God, Jesus, the Bible, and anything basically good. I’m surprised they haven’t tried to remove any mentionings of God and Jesus from any of our founding documents yet. I guess that what Washington said was true about morals and Christianity being the 2 pillars that support government. If anyone tries to get rid of either of these 2 or both of them, they are not Americans or patriots. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “I have always said, and will always say, that studious perusal of the Sacred Volume (BIBLE) will make us better citizens.”

        Thomas Jefferson

      • Charlie

        When push comes to shove,,, can you Patriots point at what “Orders” King Jesus Christ gave on how to become one of His “Warriors” in the “battle” to conquer the Satanic powers that be on Planet Earth and to “Pray” into place what King Jesus said at Matthew 6:9—13… Have you Qualified to be in The American Militia??? Meanwhile……………………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38….

        Charlie Freedom

      • http://personalliberty Julie

        What I understand about Benghazi is that Stevens know about The White House, Sec. of State, and CIA giving missiles and other military armaments to terrorist org. To keep Stevens quite, they set it up to have him killed.

    • Old Henry

      You could possibly get together with your neighbors and work at setting up a system for group communication. When goons from Dept. of Fatherland Security, or any other agency begins to put in motion your senerio sound the alarm, your neighbors can arrive on the scene neutralise the traitorous Red Coats. Then stuff them back into their vehicle, cover it with gas and torch it. There will undoubtedly be casualties, but it has to start somewhere.

      Get a group together and bounce ideas around.

      • Charlie

        Can you ID yourself as a “Christian” per “The Orders of King Jesus Christ and / or His Men in His “Chain of Command”???

    • Kevin

      I am beginning to suspect that charlie is not really a fundamentalist christian or a christian at all. I would not be at all surprised to find that he is simply posts his Ravings to make actual Christians look Bad.

      • Bob666

        Yo Kevin,
        “I am beginning to suspect that charlie is not really a fundamentalist christian or a christian at all”

        There are many on this site who talk the talk, but fail to walk the talk when put to test. I believe that many of them feel more empowered by quoting scripture to make an argument rather than using logic and reason.

        Having facts requires effort, quoting scripture comes easy to many of them, understanding it is another story all together.

      • Charlie

        Kevin ,,heathen,,,
        Ha ha h ah aha ha ha ………….You’ve been duped deceived and deluded by the Satanic powers that be………………………………..

        • Kevin

          I think Im onto something here…. is that you Left Brain Thinker???????? Hmmmm????

  • worldwatchman

    If all hell ever breaks out, all the people who were instrumental in helping to destroy what America really is all about WILL stand before We The People. And, I’m confident that a very harsh punishment will be administered to them. There is no doubt in my mind about that. That’s from the Whitehouse all the way down………..

    • http://al@bellaproducts.com al

      Soon we all will be forced to make a choice. Either we believe in our Constitution or we do not. If we do not believe in the Constitution then all is lost and we will be a footnote in history.
      On the other hand if we stand with our founders and support the Constitution then we must prepare for a disagreement with most of the politicians and half of the people of the Nation.
      This disagreement will be a long, time consuming struggle because not only will a large part of the nation be against us, but most of the ‘supposedly free world’ will be against us too.
      Remember, the New World Order under the UN is the plan of the CPUSA and we the Conservatives of this Nation are the only thing that can stop this movement. WE are the wall that can stop this One World Government and this we must do…. At all costs. The first assault is underway, the disarming of America and the bankruptcy to follow. Then One World Govrenment!!

      • Charlie

        al,,,
        The Bible was / IS The First Constitution and Law Book for America,,,see Mayflower Compact and the history books of the early American states… William Bradford was The elected “Leader” for the first 31 years of “America”… SO??? IF,,,and when America is taken back ,,,it will be with King Jesus Christ and maybe with the help The American Militia,
        because King Jesus Christ is The Commander of The American Militia… Meanwhile……….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • robbiefine@hotmail.com

          Charlie: You like to follow Biblical Law. Do you eat only Kosher? Do you even know what that means? Do you even know why I mention it? And when are you going to start shooting gays. Your Bible tells you that they must die. I suggest you start following Bible Law big guy.

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Charlie, here is ADAM and EVE by Homos’ version
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKAW96N-Vms

      • Charlie

        robbiefine,,.,
        First things first,,, where in The Bible does it say that the Jews / jews are God’s Chosen People ??? Where in The Bible are God’s food laws??? Are you a bloodline Jew? OR a
        Edomite jew? Who were the jews King Jesus pointed out at John 8:30—50???Meanwhile…
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • R. Fine

          “For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure for all the peoples on the face of the earth.” Deut. 7:6.

          As for the dietary laws they are so numerous in Deut. & leviticus that if you have not come across them it certainly indicates that you have not read the Bible. In any case if you are not eating Kosher then you are in contravention of God’s Laws. For shame. (It might actually be helpful if you had a peek inside the Book you thump so darn much.)

          I will ignore your other two questions as I have no interest is getting in to the nonsense dreamed up by evangelcals.

      • Charlie

        R. Fine,,,
        Your partial answer indicates ,you don’t know who are… Deuteronomy is the history of the Children of Israel and also a Law Book… Israel was a Man ,,,NOT a land area,,,whose first name is Jacob,,, Jacob Israel, the founding father of the 12 tribes of Israel,,,which later became 13 because Jacob adopted in as his sons Joseph sons… Jacob’s twin brother was Esau, and he and his Lineage are “”Cursed”" FOREVER ,,,see that at Malachi 1:1–5
        Notice,,,for you love only nitwits ,,,see Malachi 1:3 where God says He hated Esau… As I pointed out before God is a God of Love,,,BUT,,,He also hates some people and things…
        Now,,, R. Fine,,,it appears from your comments you are a “”Edomite jew”",,, Esau / Edom are the same guy,,,these are the jews King Jesus pointed out at John 8:30—50 and also at Revelations 2:9 and 3:9……………………………………….

        Charlie Freedom

        • Kevin

          Most religious people agree that God hates sin. Over and over, the Bible stresses the fact that God despises iniquity. God told the prophet Jeremiah to speak to the Israelites about their sin, saying: “Oh, do not do this abominable thing that I hate!” (44:4). The Proverbs writer listed seven sins the Lord hates (6:16-19). The prophet Zechariah declared that God hates a false oath and evil done to one’s neighbor (8:17). Jesus Himself said that He hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans (Revelation 2:6). The Bible emphasizes that the Lord hates sin.

          Some have suggested that God takes His hatred one step further. They believe that God hates the sinner as well as the sin he or she commits. It has been suggested that God loves those who obey Him, and hates all who disobey. Those who teach this idea use various Bible verses to “prove” their case. For instance, Psalm 5:5 says that God hates “all workers of iniquity.” Proverbs 6:18-19 says that God hates “a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren.” Is it true that God hates sinners and their sin?

          Any person who has read the Bible understands that one of its greatest themes is love. The Bible says that God is love (1 John 4:8). It also explains that God showed His love to us while we were still sinners:

          For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:6-8).

          An interesting aspect of this passage is that it stresses that lost sinners were not “righteous” or “good” when Christ demonstrated His love for them.

          In the narrative of the rich young ruler, Jesus explained that the young man lacked something necessary to be pleasing to God. Yet even though the young man was lacking and lost, the Bible says that Jesus “loved him” (Mark 10:21). When Jesus mourned over lost Jerusalem, He cried:

          O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! (Matthew 23:37).

          Jesus said His affection for the lost inhabitants of Jerusalem was like a mother hen’s affection for her chicks. Such a statement obviously denotes love for the sinners in Jerusalem.

          In one of the most well-known “love” verses in the Bible, Jesus said: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16). God’s love for the lost world was shown before the lost believed in Jesus. John further explained this when he wrote: “In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins” (1 John 4:10). From these verses it is clear that God loves lost sinners, and proved that love by sending Jesus.

          How, then, can one reconcile the verses that seem to suggest that God hates sinners, but loves them at the same time? One of the most plausible solutions is that the Bible writers are using a figure of speech called metonymy when they write that God hates sinners. Metonymy is defined as: “A figure by which one name or noun is used instead of another, to which it stands in a certain relation” (Bullinger, 1898, p. 538). Bullinger further explains that metonymy can be “of cause,” when the person acting can be put in place of the thing that is done (p. 539). For instance, in Luke 16:29, the text says: “They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.” In reality, they did not have “Moses” or the “prophets,” but they did have their writings. The name Moses is a metonymy that stood for his writings, since he was the cause of the writings. In modern times, that would be like saying, “I hate Shakespeare.” Would the person who said that mean that he hated Shakespeare’s personality? No. We understand he would be saying he does not like the writings of Shakespeare, with no comment on the playwright’s personality.

          If we apply that same figure of speech to the passages about God “hating sinners,” we can see that the sinner is put in place of the sin. Thus, when God says He hates “a false witness who speaks lies” (Proverbs 6:19), if metonymy is being used, then God hates the lies, and the one who is doing the lying (the cause) is put in place of the lies (the effect). It is interesting to see how clear this feature can be in other contexts. For instance, Proverbs 6:17 says that God hates “a lying tongue.” Does that mean that God hates a physical tongue, made of muscle and body tissue? No. It means God hates the sin that a tongue can perform. In the same context, we learn that God hates “feet that are swift in running to evil” (6:18). Again, does that mean that God hates physical feet? No. It simply means that God hates the sin that those feet can perform. It is interesting that while few, if any, would suggest that God hates physical tongues or actual feet, they would insist that God hates actual sinners and not the sin done by them.

          When studying the Bible, it is very important to keep in mind that the Bible writers often used figures of speech. When we look at the idea that God hates sin, but loves sinners, the figure of speech known as metonymy clears up the confusion. Just as God does not hate physical feet or tongues, He does not hate sinners. These nouns are put in the place of the things they cause—sin.

          REFERENCE

          Bullinger, E.W. (1898), Figures of Speech Used in the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker), 1968

        • Kevin

          Good luck Charlie… I forgive you. I wish you well.

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Charlie asks: “where in The Bible does it say that the Jews / jews are God’s Chosen People???”

        Charlie, here are some passages that Israel is God’s Chosen People:

        “Israel is MY SON, even MY FIRSTBORN.” (Ex.4:22)

        “5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.” (Exodus 19:5-6)

        “The Lord shall establish you a holy [godly, pure] people unto Himself, as He has sworn unto you, IF YOU WILL KEEP the commandments of the Lord your God, and walk in His ways.” (Deur.28:9)

        God renews His Covenant with Israel
        “All of you stand today before the LORD your God: your leaders and your tribes and your elders and your officers, all the men of Israel … you may enter into covenant with the LORD your God, and into His oath, which the LORD your God makes with you today, 13 that He may establish you today as a people for Himself, and that He may be God to you, just as He has spoken to you, and just as He has sworn to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” (Deur.29:10-13)

        God created Israel not for the Israel’s privilege/benefits, but as His witnesses. God revealed Himself to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses

        “Do we (Israelites) not have one Father? Do not have one God created us?” (Is.43:1)

        “For I have CREATED HIM (Israel) FOR MY GLORY, I have formed him; I have made him…Therefore YOU ARE MY WITNESSES, says the Lord, that I am GOD…I am the Lord, your Holy One, the CREATOR OF ISRAEL, your King.” (Isaiah 43:7, 12, 15)

        “But I said: ‘How can I put you among the children and GIVE YOU a pleasant LAND,
        A beautiful heritage of the hosts of nations?’
        “And I said: ‘You shall call Me, “My Father,” And not turn away from Me.’” (Jer.3:19)

        “I will also gather all nations, and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat; and I will enter into judgment with them there on account of My PEOPLE, My HERITAGE Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, THEY HAVE ALSO DIVIDED UP My LAND.” (Joel 3:2)

        God makes it clear that He will bring into judgment any nation, America included, that forces the division of the land of Israel. That also includes the division of Jerusalem.

        Palestine as a country NEVER existed.

        Charlie asks rabbie: “Are you a bloodline Jew?”
        Yes, he is a Jew and homosexual.
        ——————————————————————————————-
        For Kevin:
        Kevin, seek God, initiate contact with Him. You must to seek Him, not He you: “you will find Him IF YOU SEEK Him with all your heart and with all your soul.” (Deuteronomy 4:29)

        And “Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near.” (Is. 55:6)
        It should be just between God and you.
        You are created in His image, not He in yours.

        I wish you to find your Heavenly Father ASAP.
        God Bless you.

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,Judeo-Christian,,,
        Good sermon,,,But,,,you left out some critical Scripture,,, try Matthew 15:24, spoken by King Jesus Christ,,,tell us what people King Jesus came to save??? Then tell us what Psalm 119-160 is ???… Clue::: Judeo Christianity IS NOT Whole Bible True Christianity… Meanwhile………….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • Charlie

        Alondra,,,Judeo-Christian,,,
        WOW,,,2 good Judeo-Christian sermon in a row,,,BUT,,,both missing critical harmonizing Scriptures,,, try Genesis 17 and see what God said He is going to do for “”The Lineage”"of Abraham,,,does that sound like the tiny so called state of Israel today??? Now,,,go to 2 Samuel 7:10 and you may see The U S A ,,,that is the NEW JerUSAlem … That fit, and HARMONIZES a Whole lot better with what God said at Genesis 17… Come on back after your “”Prophet Shock”" is over… Meanwhile……………………………..
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation… BTW a Edomite jew is from The Lineage of Esau Edom as King Jesus pointed out at John 8:30—50 and also at Revelation 2:9 and 3:9………………………….

        Charlie Freedom

      • Kevin

        Well charlie I will give you this….. you tricked me Into reading my Bible again. While I doubt this was your Intent… It did strike me as Funny. Consider this my last response to you. You did not pass my test for the Minimum skills required to have an Intelligent conversation. In other words Charlie your not good at Talking to others. Every post …. every comment…. every Idea that you encounter must be dragged through the Amusement Park that you call your “Spiritual Gift”… your so-called Prophetic abilities are not serving you or your Lord in any positive way… Here is one more Scripture for you Pal…. Matthew 7:16…(Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?)
        What fruit are you Producing here charlie?? How many meaningful conversations have you had concerning God with another??? How has your example Influenced others???? While I cannot speak for others I can say that…. you have reaffirmed for me the reason I left people like you behind and dropped the Identification as a Christian… I forgive you Charlie. Good Bye.

    • Kevin

      If all hell breaks loose We all will pay. everyone.

    • Kevin

      Alondra……… I appreciate your Intentions and thank you for your Advice. I Am searching for the Truth I assure you. and as you say My relationship with God is My own journey. I take Issue with Individuals who use Biblical Text like a club. Especially when it is Miss-applied and represented in a False Light. I have a goodly amount of time with the study of said Book and although I am no longer a christian that does not mean that I am Ignorant to the meanings and Intentions of its message. I have endured an enormous amount of Abuse and personal attack in my life from professed “Christians” and will admit that I have little patience with Self Proclaimed Prophets who twist the scriptures to frame their personal Bias and hidden hatreds. I could just as easily let them rail and rant I suppose as I have no horse in the race…. but it riles something deep within me that cannot be Ignored.
      With respect K.T.

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,Judeo- Christian ,,,
        Truth is Truth and you cannot prove The Holy Bible Wrong… Your Judeo Christian training DID NOT give you Bible Harmonization … Don’t forget this is the first time you have heard the above ,it came from a Modern Day Prophet,,, a Gift as called out at Acts 2:38 ,,,The Gifts are pointed out by Paul in his books………… Meanwhile………………………..
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • Kevin

        There is growing, irrefutable evidence that the Crimean Khazars, whose kingdom extended over what is now the Ukraine to the Caspian Sea, officially converted to pure Mosaic Judaism in 861 under the rule of King Bulan. The Khazars do not appear to have been a people unto themselves, but rather a blend of many races resulting from the heavy trade that was going on at the time. The campaign of the Rus (Russian) Prince Svyatoslav of Kiev effectively broke the back of the Khazarian empire in 965 AD, although Khazar itself continued until at least 1030 AD. Under the growing persecution of Kiev Rus in the 11th and 12th century, the Khazars disappeared as a people. Nonetheless, there is overwhelming evidence that at least a portion of the Jewish Khazars fled to Eastern Europe and north into Poland and Lithuania.

        [excessively long cut-and-past post edited. please use a hyperlink]

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,
        You ‘re jumping all around,,,stay in The Bible,,,let the Bible prove itself… The word “Jew” has to be clearly defined according to The Bible… Jews did not even exist until the tribe of Judah came into it’s land area… The word Jew comes from the 4th son of Leah named Judah…
        Who are the false Jews King Jesus pointed out at Revelations 2:9 and 3:9???

        • Bob666

          Charlie,
          On behalf of all of us on PLD, it is time for you to let Kevin go.

      • Kevin
  • MacBeth51

    Why are all the conservative media sources ignoring Morris Dee and his organization’s background? The change in the coverage of him and the SPLC over the last 10 to 12 years is not surprising, but why are the conservatives following suit?

  • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

    Americans have become too mentally lazy – too involved in gladiator sports, reality TV shows, video games, pornography, etc. – to defend their own liberty.

    Even the most conservative lovers of liberty will not take the time to read the damning information that Sir Fred Hoyle wrote in his 1994 autobiography about the so-called scientific model of Earth’s heat source as a giant ball of hydrogen.

    http://personalliberty.com/2013/03/11/the-patriot-movement/#comment-852078

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      You seem to have a serious literacy deficiency, among other problems.

      The Small World of Fred Hoyle: An Autobiography, 1986

      And this:

      “Although Hoyle was most widely known for this cosmological theory, there is little doubt that his most lasting and significant contribution to science concerns the origin of the elements. This theory of nucleogenesis (the build-up of the elements in the hot interiors of stars) was an outstanding scientific landmark of the 1950s. In the development of this theory Hoyle collaborated with WA Fowler of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, and with Geoffrey and Margaret Burbidge.

      Hitherto, the general belief was that all the elements must have been produced in the hot primordial universe. The new paper, on the contrary, showed that the elements could be produced from the primordial hydrogen by nucleo-synthesis in the hot interior of stars. The theory gave a satisfactory account of the relative abundances of the elements, provided an explanation of the direction of stellar evolution and gave an objective basis for calculation of the internal constitution of stars.”

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2001/aug/23/guardianobituaries.spaceexploration

      • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

        1. Galt does not quote Fred Hoyle, but a newspaper article written in 2001.

        2. I gave direct quotes from Fred Hoyle:
        _ http://personalliberty.com/2013/03/11/the-patriot-movement/#comment-852078

        In 1946 Fred Hoyle laid the foundation for the

        _ a.) Standard Solar Model of H-filled stars, and the
        _ b.) Big Bang Model of sudden H-synthesis from nothing.

        Both have been repeatedly falsified by hundreds of precise nuclear and space age measurements – summarized in research papers like these:

        a. “Isotopes of tellurium, xenon and krypton in the Allende meteorite retain record of nucleosynthesis”, Nature 277, 615-620 (1979);
        http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v277/n5698/abs/277615a0.html

        b. “Neutron repulsion confirmed as energy source”, Journal of Fusion Energy 20, 197-201 (2001): http://www.springerlink.com/content/x1n87370x6685079/

        c. “Nuclear systematics: III. The source of solar luminosity”, Journal of Radioanalytical & Nuclear Chemistry 252, 3-7 (2002):
        http://www.springerlink.com/content/kg8emwb74ak3lyrc/

        d. “Composition of the solar interior: Information from isotope ratios”, Proceedings of SOHO 12/GONG Conference on Local and Global Helioseismology: The Present and the Future, 27 Oct-1 Nov 2002, Big Bear Lake, CA, U.S.A. (ESA SP-517, editor: Huguette Lacoste) pp. 345-348 (2003): http://www.omatumr.com/abstracts/gong-2002.pdf

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Seems you missed the year of this autobiography by a few years.

        Seems you see things that no one else has managed to see, since
        there are any number of links and sources which will support the
        posted synopsis.

        None of this is remotely relevant to the topic at hand…….which means
        you are apparently LOST in more ways than simply the most obvious one.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT
      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/~infocom/The%20Website/dirt.html

        This site appears quite comprehensive and is “intelligible”…….which is
        a polite way of asking……….what is your POINT??????

        What is it that you believe you know that is “useful”, How is it useful, and
        Why would it matter to US? ( you do seem to be familiar with “peer review”,
        are you having problems with your peers )

        If you can actually DO SOMETHING with whatever your point is……why
        don’t you get to doing it?

      • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

        No, Galt, I personally have Fred Hoyle’s 1994 autobiography. You can buy a copy here:

        http://www.amazon.com/Home-Where-Wind-Blows-Cosmologists/dp/093570227X

        The best available experimental data and observations from the nuclear and space ages confirm: The interior of the Sun is mostly iron, as Sir Fred Hoyle, Sir Arthur Eddington and all their acquaintances in astronomy and astrophysics believed before 1946.

        The Sun generates and discards hydrogen (H) in the solar wind, just as cars generate and discard carbon dioxide (CO2) in exhaust pipes.

        Neutron-emission from the Sun’s pulsar core, followed by neutron-decay, generates H [“Neutron repulsion confirmed as energy source”, Journal of Fusion Energy 20, 197-201 (2001): http://www.springerlink.com/content/x1n87370x6685079/.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        non sequitur….you are done here……find somewhere else to play……

        Vicki……dispose of this piece of garbage for me…..I’ll owe you one.

        See credit came first…..

      • Charlie

        GALT,,.
        You have some faults ,,, since you don’t know how to write “”"Scientifically”"”AND are a ”Heathen”, We will write in Bible Terms… Energy equals the Mass times the speed of Light ,,,in a vacuum,,.squared… Which mean ,,,when your heathen a$$ is being thrown toward The Black Hole in outer space, it will never exceed the speed of light …so,,,your mASS will be burned to a gas,,,fart,,,as it passes thru the black hole… See Matthew 8:12
        AND check the word “darkness” in your Concordance for many other Scriptures reference
        BUT don’t believe Us,,,check it out with others on site… Meanwhile…………………………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Kevin

          Matthew 7:1-5
          “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
          1 Corinthians 3:18-20
          Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their craftiness,” and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”
          Jeremiah 9:23
          Thus says the Lord: “Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty man boast in his might, let not the rich man boast in his riches,
          1 John 4:1
          Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,heathen,,,
        Good Bible Scriptures,,,but,,,have you complied with those yourself,,,AND,,,have you accomplished Acts 2:38 with understanding per Biblical Law???… Remember!!! The Whole Bible has to be harmonized to arrive at “Truth”… AND,,, one Scripture ,DOES NOT
        delete another Scripture………… Meanwhile…………………………….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

    • Kevin

      I am simply trying to help you Charlie. for a proclaimed christian you seem quite torn between Prophesying and bringing people to Jesus and Being Hateful abusive and Ignorant. You seem unequal to the Task of Either and so I am simply attempting to help you back on the straight and Narrow Path of ChristLike behavior that you I am sure cannot argue with. If you wish for others to listen to your opinions then maybe you should refrain from reacting to criticism with your ugly response. P.S. you lost me with your “God Hates Mantra”

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,heathen,,,
        How can one communicate with a “brainwashed” non-Christian that “”"Thinks”"”he can teach subject matter that he does Not understand himself ???…It’s typical for most people to think they are smarter than they are,,,and you have already told us you are NOT a Christian… Take a look at Acts 2:38 and you may notice it gives The Gift of The Holy Spirit when accomplished properly what are those Gifts???one of My Gifts is that of a Modern day Prophet… What did the Prophets of Old do??? check Jonah did he tip toe around worried about hurting some one feelings or egos??? I could care less if you ever become a Christian! That’s NOT My job,,,MY job is to point out “Truth” when some one is mouthing off “”Lies”".,,, that’s what “”Brainwashing”" is ,,,it’s believing a lie is truth….
        There are mostly 2 reasons why people react to “Prophet Shock” as you have,,,1. Personality Clash. 2. Cognitive Dissonance… Do you know what either of the 2 are ???

        Charlie Freedom

        • Kevin

          I think I have Identified the Problem charlie. You consider yourself to be a “Modern Day Prophet” This explains much. as for my understanding of Scripture I was raised In the church and attended christian private school as well as seminary school 2 years. so I have a rudimentary Knowledge of the Bible. that is why I can say without doubt that you are very misguided in the majority of your rambling and assertions across this Blog. your Insistence on name calling and Hate speech …. your anti-Semite stance, paint a very ugly picture for all to see. you are not furthering the cause of Christianity charlie…… you are in fact damaging the reputation of good well intentioned Christians and giving them a Black eye. you say that its your job to speak truth? I am not sure that you are able to recognise it Charlie.

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,nitwit,,,judeo-Christian,,,
        How’s that for a little better DIPlomatic ID? Since you have NOT said you have accomplished Acts 2:38,,,Why don’t you tell us how you became a “Christian” PER The Book???…………. Meanwhile……………………………….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Kevin

          My apologies Charlie you are not clever enough to be a shill. good luck storming the castle.

          • Bob666

            Yo Kevin,
            I have found great amusement in you exchange with Charlie. You do know that he is looking for a pitch-fork and torch as you read this?

          • Kevin

            Actually I am becoming ashamed of myself. Its not really who I am. I think I am going to leave him alone. he has enough on his plate.

          • Bob666

            Yo Kevin,
            I am curious, did you find a more specific interest after two years in divinity school or just decide it was not your calling? Personally, it is not something I could do and I do believe that it takes a man or woman with a special gift to be in the cleargy.

          • Kevin

            My family urged me to become Preacher and so to please them I did attempt it. But the more I learned about the Manner in which I was supposed to present the “word of God” and the Surprising lack of Interest in the origins of the Bible by the Church. Left me with too many doubts to Remain with that group of People. I encountered heavy resistance when I asked certain questions That my Teachers did not want to discuss. or outright hostility and warnings that My soul would be in jeopardy if I did not exorcise Faith in the areas where they could not give answers. and so I moved on.

          • R. Fine

            In my view you certainly “moved on” to a better and more intelligent place. It was heartwarming to read your comment.

          • Kevin

            I am still searching. I want to believe in A God. It would make me Feel less alone. but Sadly what is being put forth as “Truth” has so far been a very thin soup that any reasoning man would starve on.

          • R. Fine

            No one wants to feel alone. That’s what family and friends and even associates at work are for.The value of having some imaginary friend up in heaven is, to me, dubious. The fact always remains, however, that we die. And many of us think of that as the ultimate lonliness which is why we fear death. I, for one, consider death as simply being the way it was before I was conceived. Nothing to worry about, nothing to fear, nothing unusual. Just nothing actually. I also have come to see myself as just a very, very, very, very minor part of the cosmos no better and no worse than a leopard, a giant Redwood, or a lilly. Why we think of ourselves as somehow better than other life forms still confuses me. If anything this planet would be a lot better off without homo sapiens. You don’t see butterflies endangering planet earth. Be free Kevin, it’s fun.

          • Kevin

            Not big on Guru’s but found this of Interest
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUtH0DDJorM

          • R. Fine

            “As the generation of leaves, so is that of men.”

          • Kevin

            Let me know what you think of the link. when you Have time.

          • R.F.

            Kevin: I’m not seeing how to connect to a link. Can you help?

          • Kevin Turnage

            Go to Youtube search “Gangaji Who are you…..Really” or just (who are you really) I thought it Interesting please give me your Take. its narrated by Gangaji so it might just be easier to search her first then find Title.

          • Kevin

            let me know if you still have trouble finding it.

          • joe berger

            VERY WELL PUT. I agree with you exactly 100% re… the nature of human existence… and all life as well.
            But here is the problem with “our ” philosophy of life.
            It seems to lead to enormous incomprehensible barbarism.
            Stalin…Pol Pot… and even Mao ( so I am told) The Stalin guy I know from personal family experience. e.g. VERY FEW are aware that in the fall of 1937, the NKVD came out with a policy whereby the male head of every German household in south Ukraine was taken out and eventually shot. At this time there were about 2 million Germans living in the USSR. In some areas this was interpreted more loosely and all males over the age of 16 were rounded up and shot…. buried in secret graves like those in the Katyn forest. I lost many many cousins at that time. If you compare the murders committed by the ATHEISTIC Bolshevics with those of the Christian Czars it is like about ten thousand to one. BTW… the guys in charge of this operation both at the top and in our local area were mostly all atheists fallen away from the Old Testament. the government in the USSR at that time was very similar in ethnic make up as the USA government is today. And while we are on the subject… If you want to compare the murders of Stalin with those of Hitler during the period 1933 to Aug. 1939 I think a very conservative estimate would be at least 1000 for Stalin to one for Hitler.
            With all its faults and short comings it appears that christianity has been an enormously civilizing influence on people in general. …same for Bhuddism….Hinduism… Confusousism etc.
            How do we civilize the barbaric beast in all of us …. without traditional religion.??

          • Bob666

            Yo Kevin,
            sounds like you followed your heart, that has always worked for me.

            Thanks for being candid.

      • Kevin

        Here is the Body of it…..“Any thought that you have had about yourself, however deflated or inflated, is not who you are. It is simply a thought. The truth of who you are cannot be thought, because it is the source of all thoughts. The truth of who you are cannot be named or defined. Words like soul, light, God, truth, self, consciousness, universal intelligence, or divinity, while capable of evoking the bliss of the truth, are grossly inadequate as a description of the immensity of who you truly are.
        However you identify yourself — as a child, an adolescent, a mother, a father, an older person, a healthy person, a sick person, a suffering person, or an enlightened person — always, behind all of that, is the truth of yourself. It is not foreign to you. It is so close that you cannot believe it is you. Instead, you have taken on the conditioning of parents, cultures and religions as the reality of yourself rather than what has always been with you — closer than your heartbeat, closer than any thought, closer than any experience.
        The truth of who you are is untouched by any concept of who you are, whether ignorant or enlightened, worthless or grand. The truth of who you are is free of it all. You are already free, and all that blocks your realization of that freedom is your attachment to some thought of who you are. This thought doesn’t keep you from being the truth of who you are. You already are that. It separates you from the realization of who you are.
        I invite you to let your attention dive into what has always been here, waiting openly for its own self-realization. Who are you, really? Are you some image that appears in your mind? Are you some sensation that appears in your body? Are you some emotion that passes through your mind and body? Are you something that someone else has said you are, or are you the rebellion against something that someone else has said you are? These are some of the many avenues of misidentification. All these definitions come and go, are born and then die. The truth of who you are does not come and go. It is present before birth, throughout a lifetime, and after death.
        To discover the truth of who you are is not only possible; it is your birthright. Any thoughts that this discovery is not for you — now is not the time, you are not worthy, you are not ready, you already know who you are — are all just tricks of the mind.
        The most important question you can ever ask yourself is Who am I? In a certain way, this has been an implicit question asked throughout every stage of your life. Every activity, whether individual or collective, is motivated at its root by a search for self-definition. Typically, you search for a positive answer to this question and run away from a negative answer. Once this question becomes explicit, the momentum and the power of the question direct the search for the true answer, which is open-ended, alive, and filled with ever deepening insight.
        Of course, the external world tells you who you are. Beginning with your parents, you are told that you are a particular name, a particular gender, and that you play a particular role as a child in the family. The conditioning continues through your schooling. You are a good student, a bad student, a good person, a bad person, someone who can do it, someone who can’t do it, and on and on. You have experienced both success and failure. After a certain stage, early or late, you realize that who you are, however that is defined, is not satisfying.
        Unless this question has been truly answered, not just conventionally answered, you will still be hungry to know. Because no matter how you have been defined by others, well-meaning or not, and no matter how you have defined yourself, no definition can bring lasting certitude.
        The moment of recognizing that no answer has ever satisfied this question is crucial. It is often referred to as the moment of spiritual ripeness, the moment of spiritual maturity. At this point, you can consciously investigate who you really are.
        In its power and simplicity, the question Who am I? throws the mind back to the root of personal identification, the basic assumption I am somebody. Rather than automatically taking that assumption as the truth, you can investigate deeper.
        It is not difficult to see that this initial thought, I am somebody, leads to all kinds of strategies: to be a better somebody, a more protected somebody, a somebody with more pleasure, more comfort, and more attainment. But when this very basic thought is questioned, the mind encounters the I that is assumed to be separate from what it has been seeking. This is called self-inquiry. This most basic question, Who am I?, is the one that is the most overlooked. We spend most of our days telling ourselves or others we are someone important, someone unimportant, someone big, someone little, someone young, or someone old, never truly questioning this most basic assumption.
        Who are you, really? How do you know that is who you are? Is that true? Really? If you say you are a person, you know that because you have been taught that. If you say you are good or bad, ignorant or enlightened, these are all just concepts in the mind. All of them are forgotten every night when you fall asleep. Whatever can be forgotten will never deliver certitude. In an instant of true and sincere self-inquiry, what can neither be forgotten nor be remembered reveals itself as who you are. All that is required is that you stop trying to find yourself in some definition.
        When you turn your attention toward the question Who am I?, perhaps you will see an entity that has your face and your body. But who is aware of that entity? Are you the object, or are you the awareness of the object? The object comes and goes. The parent, the child, the lover, the abandoned one, the enlightened one, the victorious one, the defeated one — these identifications all come and go. The awareness of these identifications is always present. The misidentification of yourself as some objecting awareness leads to extreme pleasure or extreme pain and endless cycles of suffering. When you are willing to stop the misidentification and discover directly and completely that you are the awareness itself and not these impermanent definitions, the search for yourself in thought ends.
        When the question Who? is followed innocently, purely, all the way back to its source, there is a huge, astounding realization: There is no entity there at all! There is only the indefinable, boundless recognition of yourself as inseparable from anything else.
        You are free. You are whole. You are endless. There is no bottom to you, no boundary to you. Any idea about yourself appears in you and will disappear back into you. You are awareness, and awareness is consciousness.
        Let all self-definitions die in this moment. Let them all go, and see what remains. See what is never born and what does not die. Feel the relief of laying down the burden of defining yourself. Experience the actual non-reality of the burden. Experience the joy that is here. Rest in the endless peace of your true nature before any thought of I arises.”

      • Cheerio

        OMH Charlie…., as a Christian I find you radically crazy and full of it. Please remember to not throw pearls before swine and judge not unrighteousously. You can’t claim to be Christian while spitting anger and contempt at the same time. The Holy Ghost does not dwell in unholy temples.

        If you believe in Christ please act more like him, giving Christianity a bad name is not to your advantage. Calling people heathen is silly and a waste of energy.

        Christ taught with humble power and perfect understanding without anger and unwarranted accusations.

        Either you are prideful and self-righteous or you are in fact the heathen you claim others to be…?

        Chill

        • Bob666

          Yo Cheerio,
          I could not have said that better myself. I believe that Jesus led by example.

        • Kevin

          e.g. (An actual Christian)

      • Charlie

        Cheerios,,,
        Have you had your Wheaties this morning ?,,,first off I judge no one,,, the Word is what I use to call in Judgment… Check the Book of John, first chapter to figure out what the “”Word”"is… IF?,,,
        one knows the right questions to ask,,,one can find out critical info real quick… Critique Me all you want to,,,but,,,I may only pay attention to you AFTER We, Critique you… Here We go…………….
        Have you accomplished Acts 2:38 properly and lawfully PER The Bible??? Meanwhile…………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • Kevin

        e.g. (something Else)

      • Kevin

        (((Helpful Tips for the Identification Of “Charlie”))) ……………………….There is growing, irrefutable evidence that the Crimean Khazars, whose kingdom extended over what is now the Ukraine to the Caspian Sea, officially converted to pure Mosaic Judaism in 861 under the rule of King Bulan. The Khazars do not appear to have been a people unto themselves, but rather a blend of many races resulting from the heavy trade that was going on at the time. The campaign of the Rus (Russian) Prince Svyatoslav of Kiev effectively broke the back of the Khazarian empire in 965 AD, although Khazar itself continued until at least 1030 AD. Under the growing persecution of Kiev Rus in the 11th and 12th century, the Khazars disappeared as a people. Nonetheless, there is overwhelming evidence that at least a portion of the Jewish Khazars fled to Eastern Europe and north into Poland and Lithuania.
        [excessively long cut-and-past post edited. please use a hyperlink]

      • Charlie

        joe Berger,,,
        The way to conquer the beast in you ,IS the same way King Jesus Christ said to do at Matthew 4 and Matthew 6:33, and what Peter said at Acts 2:38… Meanwhile……………………………………..
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

  • Chris

    So glad I had not just taken a drink of something when I read “Southern Preposterous Lie Center” otherwise I would be cleaning my monitor, keyboard and desk for the next 1/2 hour instead of reading the rest of this article.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Yes, cute though some may think it was, I can see where it might make someone with brains want to puke—-do you have brains, Chris?. That’s the first urge I had, but I have developed a pretty strong stomach over the years and even such bad-smelling horsepucky doesn’t get me too much. Unpleasant yes, but not to the point of upchuck.

  • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

    Truth is stranger than fiction!

    Historical records show climategate is the long-term consequence of a crisis of conscience involving two British authors of science fiction, George Orwell and Fred Hoyle in 1945-46:

    http://omanuel.wordpress.com/about/#comment-2204

    http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/climategate-a-crisis-of-conscience/

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      see above comment…..and just go away.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        When I used the term “specialist” I meant it in the Heinlein sense…..

        You are not even a “competent insect”.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Climategate is TOTALLY AND ABSOLUTELY UNRELATED to anything that omanuel has ever posted on PLD or in any of his blog commentary.

      GO AWAY, OMANUEL!!! You give science, common sense, and NASA a bad name

  • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

    The reality that is revealed by experimental data, measurements and observations on the material world is fully compatible with the reality that is realized by meditation, prayer and contemplation on the spiritual world.

    The supposed conflict between science and religion – the same propaganda Stalin used to control people in the old USSR before WWII – is being used to control people in the new, tyrannical one-world after WWII !

    It is called “politically correct thinking” by those who would have objected to Thomas Jefferson’s declaration in 1776 that citizens of the USA “were endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights”.

    Animal Farm described the problem before WWII. Nineteen Eighty-Four (“1984″) describes the world society after WWII – TODAY.

    With deep regrets,
    - Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo
    http://www.omatumr.com

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      “The reality that is revealed by experimental data, measurements and observations on the material world is fully compatible with the reality that is realized by meditation, prayer and contemplation on the spiritual world.”

      Really? Science deals with the physical world. Meta -physics attempts to discern some connection to a non material yet co-existent or pre-existent “spirital world”, for which there are myriad varients.

      You offer a conclusion here which unfortunately:

      1.) Fails to identify which of these metaphysical varients you have chosen as the “consistent one”.

      2.) Fails to show any connection to any of the science, you have been babbling about.

      3.) Fails to demonstrate that any of the scientific controversy you are raising has gained any acceptance, by your peers.

      4.) Fails to offer any consistent hypothesis regarding the “underlying” conspiracy you are suggesting…….since you have failed to deal with the first 3 points…….and your conclusion, requires the unification of physics and metaphysics……..which requires that the latter, fit the observational data of the former……..which is the reason for the “split” in the first place. Meta-physics came first……..and THAT IS THE PROBLEM!!!!

      YOU HAVE NOT RESOLVED THIS PROBLEM!

      The supposed conflict between science and religion – the same propaganda Stalin used to control people in the old USSR before WWII – is being used to control people in the new, tyrannical one-world after WWII !

      Preaching to the choir? The conflict began way before Stalin…..you are a “specialist”………and so far it does not appear that you have any credibility in what you are supposedly qualified for……….having been exposed to the rest of your babbling………your comprehension and ability to sythesize other fields of knowledge is non existant.

      It is called “politically correct thinking” by those who would have objected to Thomas Jefferson’s declaration in 1776 that citizens of the USA “were endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights”.

      He didn’t actually write that……and it is false anyway. You have a single unalienable right……..and this is consistent which observable data……….all the rest is metaphyiscal speculation which has no evidence to support it. See 1.) 2.) 3.) and 4.) above.

      Animal Farm described the problem before WWII. Nineteen Eighty-Four (“1984″) describes the world society after WWII – TODAY.

      With deep regrets,
      - Oliver K. Manuel

      No need to have regrets……..while the “commie” touch is nice and reference to Jefferson clearly manipulative…….in terms of scientific understanding, you are clearly in the WRONG PLACE. ( of course, your grasp of “science” at this point is questionable. )

      I realise that in many ways the implications of “science” are essentially contemporary in terms of scope, but we are way beyond the point of understanding that prevailed in Catherine the Great’s Court and you sir are not the modern equivilant of Descarte, although you might be tempted by the “intellectual” prowess of the “liberty movement”, this in NOT a safe haven, for you…….even when you throw in AGW and anti Obama rhetoric. ( and imagined plots and conspiracies )

      As was explained to Brandon Smith, you can try to write general babble if you like……..mindless rhetoric using the appropriate “labels” will always appear to be “brilliant”…….as long as you are never called to actually be specific……..unfortunately for you, once you identify the specific meta-physical philosophy your conclusion suggests, you will be finished. Be a good “specialist”…..and go fight with your “peers”……because until you win there, you have “no science” and it does not appear that you have the “intellect” or “knowledge” to even come close to the “conslusion”, you have “claimed” to have accomplished.

      “He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.”

      • Charlie

        GALT,,,
        You have some faults,,, We know you are a “expert” El Toro Dung Writer,,,but,,,give us dummies a list of your “”Credentials”"” ,,,do you have a PhD in Heathenism or just a BS??
        Anyway , thanks for info, and comments ,because, they cause us to have to read between the line to figure out you are just another simple minded “Ego Maniac”… Meanwhile…….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38…

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Charlie, dealing with idiots doesn’t require credentials……watch

        E = MCC is wrong because?

        See?

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        BTW…..those than can……..DO!!!!!!!

        No certification required.

      • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

        Is Charlie right in suggesting Galt doesn’t know what he’s talking about?

        Let’s give Galt a chance to redeem himself. Here’s his chance to explain experimental observations that show the solar system formed directly from poorly mixed supernova debris that orbited the Sun’s pulsar core 5 Gyr ago:

        01. http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1960Data.htm

        02. http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1972Data1.htm

        03. http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1972Data.htm

        04. http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1975Data.htm

        05. http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1976Data.htm

        06. http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1983Data.htm

        07. http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1991Data.htm

        08. http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1993Data.htm

        09. http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1994Data.htm

        10. http://www.omatumr.com/Data/1996Data.htm

      • Texas Ride

        Galt, in your case, “those that can…..DO” make fools out of themselves.

      • JCfromDC

        E=MCC? I though it was E=MC2 (squared), unless my science profs were all wrong.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        GALT says:
        E = MCC is wrong because?

        Texas Ride says something stupid.

        JCfromDC says:
        E=MCC? I though it was E=MC2 (squared), unless my science profs were all wrong.

        GALT has one more bit of proof that PLD is populated with the WIFI.

        Life is good in PLD Land!.

      • http://personalliberty Julie

        To understand what Mr. Omanual is trying to say, I suggest you read “Future Calling” at http://www.freedomforceinternational.com or at http://www.freedomforce.com. This is a must read for all American’s. It has 5 chapters, and through out each chapter it gives several references where the author got his info, incase the reader wants to do their own research.

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        I know this going to come as a SHOCK, but seriously, what do
        you think c squared means?

        What mathematical operation is indicated by two adjacent variables?

        By three adjacent variables?

        Is the result of such an operation affected by the order in which the separate
        calculations are performed?

        Is 5 x 4 x 3 different than 4 x 3 x 5?

        How is the result of MC Squared different than MCC or CMC?

        Please, don’t all answer at once!

        Charlie? Texas? JC?

      • Charlie

        GALT,,,
        You have some faults ,,, when dealing in numbers and letters that represent numbers,,,for the vision of others to easily see what things are … equations are written in “standardize format” ,,,that’s also why many things are “standardized”, such as airplane cockpits….
        Psalm 119:160 is the equation for truth,,,”The sum of Your word is truth,” replace “is” with = ,and you have the equation for truth… The Holy Bible ties in with ALL “Science”, because The Almighty God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob Israel , Created ALL that is…

      • Charlie

        GALT,,,
        You have some faults,,, the physical world,,,the Mental world,,,the Spiritual world ,,,all have Gods/ gods… The Almighty God is The Big “G” God,,,and The small “g” gods is who?… Do any of these Gods / gods have much control over what Omanuel is writing about??? How much faster is the speed of thought? as compared to the speed of light?…

  • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

    The reality revealed by experimental data, measurements and observations on the material world is fully compatible with the reality that is realized by meditation, prayer and contemplation on the spiritual world. However, . . .

    Rigorous Honesty . . . Is the Prerequisite Keystone in the Arch that Links the Material and the Spiritual Worlds Pervading the Solar System

    Post-1945 science sacrificed honesty and respect for human dignity and spiritual truths.

    http://omanuel.wordpress.com/about/#comment-2339

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      You seem to have a “problem” responding to either “english” or questions asked in ” english”………….why is that?

      You have been presented with the “problem of the unification of physics and metaphysics”, and it has been pointed out to you, that you have not “solved” or “resolved” this problem and why…….

      Do you not understand the question or the problem?

      Do you not understand that regardless of how many links you have posted to supposed “scientific claims” you will still have not solved or resolved the problem?

      Do you not understand that whatever the correct science is……….

      The reality revealed by experimental data, measurements and observations on the material world is fully compatible with the reality that is realized by meditation, prayer and contemplation on the spiritual world.

      you can not achieve the results stated by DECLARING THIS TO BE TRUE!

      Or do you NOT understand the difference between a “reality” revealed by “experimental data, measurements and observations” and the “imagined reality” that is and has been the “result” of ” meditation, prayer and contemplation”?

      If the latter were a realiable “source of the TRUTH regarding REALITY” there would be NO CONFLICT between metaphysics and physics, or if you like “science” and “religion”………because “science” would have simply been a “confirmation” of all the “truth” that had already been revealed by “religion”?

      Unless you are a “willfully ignorant, functional illiterate” this is not what science has indicated, and despite what YOU BELIEVE the “science to be”, this is NOT WHAT YOUR SCIENCE has indicated.

      Whatever consistency you imagine exists between your science and your metaphysical belief system, you HAVE FAILED TO DEMONSTRATE that consistency, or actually give any indication of what your “metaphysical belief system” is?

      The root of society’s demise is government deception about energy in the cores of heavy atoms (Th, U, Pu), planets (Jupiter, Saturn), ordinary stars (the Sun) and galaxies (Milky Way) that started in 1946 .

      The relationship between energy and matter, E = MC^2 seems to have preceded this conspiracy by a few decades, why is that? Also you have ignored the following questions…….stated predviously:

      Just curious, but if the calculations of the component elements of the sun are wrong, wouldn’t the mass of the sun be miscalculated also?

      And if this were TRUE, wouldn’t all the gravitational calculations within our solar system, between the sun and all orbiting bodies, also be wrong? ( and this gets worse because the “earth”s composition has already been noted as being mostly Fe! ( iron ))

      Why? Fear that humans might misuse nuclear energy to destroy life on Earth, including the lives of world leaders.

      That seems reasonable and still a possible concern, but only if those who have the technological capability yield to the insanity., which seems highly unlikely. Which brings us to this question, asked by many here.

      “What the heck does this have to do with the Patriot Movement?”

      Everything ! We must each search for reality, truth for ourselves to be effective Patriots.

      True Patriots must think for themselves, instead of consuming government propaganda as a pig eating slop.

      This is the typical mindless rheotoric which is “common mushroom feed” for this site……..is this why you think you have a future here?

      Too bad, because “mindless” means mindless……and while I can see the “attraction”……..your mythology had better be “identical” to the “mythology” of those you seek to impress.

      The word “patriot” really has no meaning in this land of rhetorical babble……..simply because there is no understanding of “history” or the real reasons for the “revolution” or the “motivations” of those “patriots” that are often cited as the “enlightened inspiration” for it……..so for most………their understanding of “history” is “propaganda”…..and references to the Declaration and the Constitution, do not alter this fact, for these were “effects” not causes………and given enough TIME, this REALITY will become “obvious”…….

      Regardless of how long this takes, YOU HAVE NO FUTURE HERE. The “willfully ignorant, functional illiterates” are a notorious and cantankerous lot……..but they can not hang because they rely on rhetoric…..and avoid, fact and logical reasoning and are easily EXPOSED!

      You have been EXPOSED by simple questions you can not and will not answer……..how many more times will you have to be asked?

      “He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.”

  • MacBeth51

    “omanuel says:
    March 15, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    The reality revealed by experimental data, measurements and observations on the material world is fully compatible with the reality that is realized by meditation, prayer and contemplation on the spiritual world. However, . . .

    Rigorous Honesty . . . Is the Prerequisite Keystone in the Arch that Links the Material and the Spiritual Worlds Pervading the Solar System

    Post-1945 science sacrificed honesty and respect for human dignity and spiritual truths.

    http://omanuel.wordpress.com/about/#comment-2339

    Not singling you out, but what the heck does this have to do with the Patriot Movement?

    • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

      “What the heck does this have to do with the Patriot Movement?”

      Everything ! We must each search for reality, truth for ourselves to be effective Patriots.

      If you spend your time playing video games, watching reality TV shows, gladiator sports, listening to “world news”, doing mind-altering drugs (alcohol, weed, psychotropic drugs, etc) – you cannot be an effective Patriot.

      End of story. True Patriots must think for themselves, instead of consuming government propaganda as a pig eating slop.

      Study the information here and decide for yourself:

      http://omanuel.wordpress.com/about/#comment-2199

      http://orach24463.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/fear-and-loathing-of-humans-the-pathology-behind-the-climate-change-movement/

      With kind regards,
      Oliver K. Manuel
      Former NASA Principal
      Investigator for Apollo

  • worldwatchman

    S.eriously P.reposterous L.aughable C.rap. Now you know what the abbreviation stands for……….

  • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

    The root of society’s demise is government deception about energy in the cores of heavy atoms (Th, U, Pu), planets (Jupiter, Saturn), ordinary stars (the Sun) and galaxies (Milky Way) that started in 1946 .

    Why? Fear that humans might misuse nuclear energy to destroy life on Earth, including the lives of world leaders. Here’s the rest of the story:

    http://orach24463.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/fear-and-loathing-of-humans-the-pathology-behind-the-climate-change-movement/

    http://omanuel.wordpress.com/about/#comment-2199

    With kind regards,
    Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo

  • Spyderdalton

    The porpaganda war is transmitting CNN on all airport TV’s and all VA hospital TV’s waiting rooms. I am insulted having to watch this anti American crap while waiting to be seen for injuries recieved defending this country. It is abosolute hypocracy! there isn’t two lines that come out of their mouths without blaming Republican for everything.

    • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

      We are only now waking up to reality:

      We have been fed a steady diet of government propaganda, as pigs are fed slop.

      Government propaganda has enslaved the American public, exactly as George Orwell warned would happen in the futuristic novel, Nineteen Eighty-four (“1984″) that he started wrinting in 1946 – the same year Sir Fred Hoyle first published misinformation about the internal composition and source of energy in the Sun.

      See: http://omanuel.wordpress.com/about/#comment-2199

      With kind regards,
      Oliver K. Manuel
      Former NASA Principal
      Investigator for Apollo

      • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

        I would encourage anyone to speak for themselves about perceived realities. To assume everyone is like yourself is starting off on the wrong foot, first rattle out of the box.

        My perception is not yours or yours mine ~ while we might well agree on many things.

        I see nothing new under the sun today other then our technology. ~ Human kind has learned to interfere with natural process like no other time in history. We have learned to employ target kiliing in real time remotely with pin point accuracy from distances never considered possible.

        Many of our value system are seen as being under attack ~ and value itself is primarily perception, intrinsic value only relative to worth.

        Uneducated people has different notions of “Value” then more educated people. ~ We are not all educated the same so we will never all agree.

        This leaves us to make two worlds or three world or learn to compromise and be tolerant of each other.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        omanuel,

        I have just looked at this link and find that it’s just another link to your blog. You are probably a nice person, and you are probably kind to dogs, and you may even like kids, but I must be unkind and again say,

        YOU ARE A TOTAL SCIENTIFIC WING NUT AND SHOULD STAY ON YOUR BLOG AND STOP CLUTTERING UP PLD WITH YOUR POSTINGS.

        And mentioning Thomas Jefferson or global warming or politics does NOT lend any credence to your babblings, because that’s all they are—-babblings. Your blog is nothing but page upon page of you just talking to yourself about crackpot theories, and seldom does anyone reply—-if they do, they prove themselves to be crackpots like you.

        If you want to state opinions about the topics on PLD, please do so, but release us from the torture of reading your attempts to connect them with “science”. I beg you..

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Just curious, but if the calculations of the component elements of the sun
        are wrong, wouldn’t the mass of the sun be miscalculated also?

        And if this were TRUE, wouldn’t all the gravitational calculations within
        our solar system, between the sun and all orbiting bodies, also be wrong?

        One of the things known about Hoyle was that he didn’t like the “implications”
        of the Big Bang, because it provided a window for a “religious context”, which
        is why he opted for the “continuous creation” alternative and an
        “eternal universe”, but as a “scientist”……..he accepted the “evidence” and
        worked with it.

        Might be time for you to emulate his example?

    • Kevin

      Anyone who asserts that the Mainstream media is not Biased is not being genuine. Fox news as well. there are no news outlets that simply report the news that I am aware of.

  • http://www.facebook.com/darwan.winkler.3 Deerinwater

    Bob Livingston stated; “In the report, the lie center equates liberty-minded, pro-Constitution conservative and libertarian Americans with the Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazi skinheads, but it draws no real nexus beyond the bogies inside Mark Potok’s collectivist brain. Potok and the lie center have created a “hate group” designation for these people: Patriots.”

    I say, OH! Really ???? Well someone has been stealing my stuff! ~ Is there any mention of the John Birch Society? ~ Well if they do ~then they got it from me!

    Any American that makes the claim of being a loyal American patriot should be a person that accepts the results of our General Election process ~ even if their party’s choice was rejected. ~~ I do not see that in the rake and file Tea Party loyalist Mr. Livingston so how can I consider them American Patriots?

    Why bother with an election process at all ~ if you cannot accept the results of one? ~ Why not just have a civil war now and dispense with the pretense of being Patriots and accept the title of reactionary extremist. We can blow each other heads and legs off ~ or put each other in the ground , our father, our brother ~ our son, or mother for some victory in the “right to label ” process and feel self righteous and mighty for a week or so.

    • ROGER, Irish-Canadian LIBERTARIAN

      From you “Deerinwater”- “Any American that makes the claim of being a loyal American patriot should be a person that accepts the results of our General Election process ~ even if their party’s choice was rejected. ” not-with-standing the grammatical error, that statement by you is a NON-SEQUITOR if I have ever seen one. Where do you get your sense of LOGIC?

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Uh, ROGER, Irish-Canadian LIBERTARIAN, ignoring the fact that you spelled it differently, I think you meant to say that deer’s statement is a non sequitur? And you were questioning deer’s logic? Yes?

        I have read deer’s statement several times, and it seems to say,

        IF one claims to be a loyal American Patriot,
        THEN one should accept the results of our election process,
        EVEN IF one’s preferred candidate ;lost the election.

        Your contention that deer is illogical is a piece of faulty logic if I have ever seen one. (Unless, of course, logic is somehow differently structured for Irish Canadian Libertarians).

        DEER! I agree 100% with whatever it is you’re trying to say that’s apparently so hard to understand for some folks. A loyal Patriot accepts the idea that we have elections in this country and parties “take turns” in power. And that the losing party becomes what is termed the “loyal opposition” and does not try to destroy the country because they are sore losers. Or is that offensive to someone’s sense of “logic” also?

    • MacBeth51

      You confuse the USA with a Democracy. It is not, and never has been one, for good reason. It is a Constitutional Republic, that places strict limits on the power of the Federal Government by that Constitution. When an elected official starts violating provisions of that Constitution, he is breaking the Supreme Law of the land, irregardless how many vote for him. Both BO and before him have done so, yet the persons with the primary responsibility for stopping such actions, Congress, have done nothing to stop it, placing themselves in collusion.

      • ROGER,Irish-Canadian LIBERTARIAN

        Has nothing to do with Democracy or not. If your leader is a dictator,as Obama, for example is, then, as a good partriot you must accept him, because, after all, your party may have been the one that lost and you must support the winning party.What kind of logic is that? If you think that is commonsensical or patriotic, then it certainly goes a long way towards explaining the trouble America is in! What are they teaching you now in school? “Legally” ,of course you must accept the winning party, but in spirit or especially, in the case of dictatorship,constitutionally -NO. Lucky for you the founding patriots did not see things your way, but Thank you for showing me the way of how to be a real loser !!!

  • R. Fine

    Seems Senator Portman has had a change of heart about homosexuality. He’s always fought against gay marriage and gay rights. It was, afterall, a Republican ideology to oppose such sins. Being gay was learned behaviour supposedly and all of that. But then something strange happened. The Senator’s son spoke with him and told his dad that he – the son – was gay and always had been. He sure didn’t learn being gay from his dad and mom now did he? Like Cheney’s lesbian daughter he had simply been born that way. So now the Senator is faced with one of the realities of life and, because he loves his dear son, he realizes that Bible teaching is nonsense. Perhaps every lawmaker has to discover a gay family member before justice will be done.

    • Bob666

      Yo RRRRRRRRRRRR matey,
      “Perhaps every lawmaker has to discover a gay family member before justice will be done”.

      Gay people have been around since the days of the caveman and will always be around. They should have the same benifits as everyone else, Portman might actually be coming to a place called reality.

      • robbiefine@hotmail.com

        I totally agree with you.

      • WILDFIRE

        Personally in the past I never really cared what the homosexuals do in their life. They live their life and mind their business and I’ll do so likewise. But in recent times, I have come so sick and tired of hearing about them on a daily basis attacking someone or some thing somewhere.

        They (homosexuals) like the women and the blacks and even the Hispanics don’t want equal rights, they want exceptional and special rights.

        for example: They want equal rights and freedoms such as right to vote, to go to school, to work for an income and so on and so forth. They were given all those things. Then they wanted special perks and benefits such as “affirmative action” and groups and programs that give them special benefits such as “Black college fund” “Business grants, programs and policies that cater exclusively to blacks, Hispanics, woman and homosexual based on either your race, your gender and now even your sexual preference. When you have governments segregating people into specific categories based on their qualifications or eligibility for that program you must be a certain race a certain gender or a certain sexual preference, then that is none other than discrimination and not equal treatment, but special treatment because not all Americans are eligible.

        The homosexuals don’t just want the right to be equal they are demanding that every be forced to like them and have to deal with them. It is no different than lets say religious groups of different denominations with different beliefs. You have lets use Catholics as one example and say baptists as the other example. Both have the rights to peacefully do their thing and live the way they believe is the best way to live. One day you have the Catholic organization bust down the doors of the baptist church and “DEMAND” that we adapt and take on their way of life and belief. Actually much like the Islam is trying to do across the globe but that is for another story.

        Marriage is a word since nearly the beginning of time known as one man and one woman union coming together to become one and it is clearly defined in the Bibles of many faiths the definition on the word marriage. If homosexuals want to be joined together with some ceremony, fine then call it some word such as civil union and have a court magistrate join them. They DO NOT just want to be respected and recognized, they want to force their life style into other peoples lifestyles. In many if not all religious beliefs, Homosexuality goes against their religious beliefs and they are not to take part in such a thing recognized as a sin in their faiths. Yet if a preacher, priest or some person of the cloth refuses to join them in a church or perform a marriage ceremony, they run out and sue and declare to “WILL” accept and respect my sexual preference all the while the homosexuals are not respecting these people’s faiths and belief. Or family business’s who run their business along the lines of their religious beliefs. These homosexual seek these people out intentionally to force people by court order to accept their way of life. Rather than going down the road to the next organization to do business or start their own business. Boy Scouts of America is another one, accept us into your organization or else. These organizations such as BSA have certain code of conducts they operate under. Homosexuals seek out these business’s and organization to cause trouble and turmoil for others to gain recognition, publicity and to force others to accept their way of life yet they don’t except our way of life.

        If they want to be joined in a union, go do it and give it a name and do it at a magistrate not somewhere that forces others to go against their lifestyle and religions. They want a group to go camping and so on, then make their own group an call it “Gay Scouts of America” or something. they are given that freedom to open a gay business and operate it under their values and principles as they see fit.

        They have special events much like the blacks have with things such as Gay pride days and parades such as Blacks have events that are specific to recognize them. Yet if there was a heterosexual pride day or parade or something that depicts White history month or White appreciation day, all h3ll would break loose.

        For those who don’t want to be associated with or forced to live their life style, what do they do? live and let live? no they go out and want to destroy them with boycotts, law suits in revenge until they are FORCED to accept their lifestyle, much like the slaves were forced to work under a slave master, and forced to eat in separate places, and sit in separate places and separate restrooms and woman forced to or denied certain equalities during the “Womens sufferage” days. They were “FORCED” and no one wants to be forced.

        If these homosexuals would just go on and live and let life and leave other people alone and accept and respect their lifestyle, then the heterosexuals would largely respect the homosexuals lifestyle as long as they are not forced to accept the other lifestyle. Furthermore, it is just a matter of time when the pedophiles and the beastality people don’t come out of the wood work and start demanding they get equal rights and recognition also. Caliming they have a equal right to love same as the homosexuals, they sexual preference happens to be underage children and we have governments stating that under age girls have a rights to give consent to abortions without parental consent or knowledge. If they are old enough and mature enough to make a decision such as abortion, then they should be equally mature enough to give consent for pedophiles to have sex with them, because if its consentual then it shouldn’t be against the law. Then you’ll have the beastialities coming out claiming they have a right to marry their dog, donkey or sheep because they have an equal right to love and everyone should accept their lifestyle choices and their sickness just like the homosexuals are doing today.

        • robbiefine@hotmail.com

          Actually the groups you noted do not have equal rights in many areas. That’s especially true for gay people. You think they want extra rights but that is not the case. The problem lies in the fact that you lack information. Try listening to what gay folks would like – they are simply the same rights that you have.

        • Bob666

          Yo Fire,

          “Homosexuals seek out these business’s and organization to cause trouble and turmoil for others to gain recognition, publicity and to force others to accept their way of life yet they don’t except our way of life.”

          My first comment would be that I am not an expert on the issues of the Gay community, but having had conversations with the lesbian couple around the corner and the son of one neighbors who is gay, I believe that you have taken a shot-gun approach on these issues. Knowing less than a half a dozen gay people, the one common thread that I hear from them has everything to do with legal rights more than social rights. I am sure there are “in your face” gay people just like there are “in your face” straight people, all that I know (6 or 7) are pretty low key conservative people.

          One issue is having survivor benefits as a legitimate spouse in making decisions in the event of illness or death. Another is health insurance and many large corporations have figured this out and are offering these benefits to same sex “spouses”. As far as pedophiles go, I don’t believe that you are even close. From my reading, while there are no doubt pedophiles who are gay in their sexual orientation, most tend to be heterosexual or bisexual.

          • Kevin

            I agree with you Bob. It seems to be about money after all.

      • Kevin

        Gay couples should have the right to be just as miserable as straight couples. (in the context of Marriage)

        • Bob666

          Yo Kevin,
          Equal oportunity under the law applies to equal misery under the law as well!

          LOL

          • WILDFIRE

            Can’t argue that logic? lol, been there done that….

      • WILDFIRE

        robbiefine@hotmail.com says: “Actually the groups you noted do not have equal rights in many areas. That’s especially true for gay people. You think they want extra rights but that is not the case. The problem lies in the fact that you lack information. Try listening to what gay folks would like – they are simply the same rights that you have.”

        robbiefine – Care to give some examples on what equal rights these groups don’t get as Americans? Then lets talk about all the programs, organizations, support groups, grants and so forth that are out their for the various groups and then lets talk about the groups the white people have designated specifically for them.

        If its not the case they want extra rights, then why do they have all these special interest groups and programs for these groups and monies allocated specifically for these groups rather than having groups and programs that are specific based on race or gender or sexual preference? If you tell me these programs and organizations don’t exist, then it is you who is misinformed and want to blatantly want to be blinded from the truth.

        To say they don’t want special rights – you need to read the “homosexual classroom act”. take a look at some “Gay Pride Parade” specifically in San Fransisco on youtube. Apparently in order for them to express their homosexuality it requires them to ride bikes around in circles and walk up and down the street completely naked exposing them self to the underage children that happen to be walking down the side walk in downtown shopping with mom and dad. Others crawling on hands and knees nearly naked only leather belts on with a leash and someone leading them acting as if they are some sort of a dog or animal of some sort. Yet we call our self a civilized society and have these people roaming the streets whom are acting like or imitating some sort of an entrapped animal and exposing their self to under age kids. Sounds like the type of model citizens I would want to drop my kids off with at the day care center or the school and leave my kids in their care. Chicago “Gay pride parades” are the same. Now here is the thing, there are laws for indecent exposure and public nudity, but during the “Gay Pride Parade” Those laws are temporarily nullified for them but not for heterosexuals.

        • R. Fine

          Actually I happen to find those parades disgusting as well so I don’t go to them. The few gay people I am friends with do not go to them as well. But in our society parades are not illegal. Regardless of that it is unfair that a partner in a long term relationship (same sex) does not have the same inheritance rights as married people just as one example.

          • Bob666

            Yo RRRRRRR,
            I have no interest in going to a gay pride parade as well. But the if you respect the first amendment, you respect their right to have it. As far as legal rights, same sex couples do not have the same as you an I do and I don’t understand why they should not.

      • WILDFIRE

        Bob666 says: “My first comment would be that I am not an expert on the issues of the Gay community, but having had conversations with the lesbian couple around the corner and the son of one neighbors who is gay, I believe that you have taken a shot-gun approach on these issues. Knowing less than a half a dozen gay people, the one common thread that I hear from them has everything to do with legal rights more than social rights. I am sure there are “in your face” gay people just like there are “in your face” straight people, all that I know (6 or 7) are pretty low key conservative people.”

        I have low key conservative homosexual friends as well. I have been very close friends with a lesbian girl for over 30 yrs, have known her since we was 14 years old. We have talked many times on her feelings and situation. According to her, she wants to have and wishes she could have a normal relationship with a guy. But to understand her you would have to understand her childhood background. Without a long history, I will tell you my opinion of why she is the way she is. She comes from a broken family, by which she was stuck with her mother thanks to courts who was always on drugs and bringing her drugged up boyfriend over. I sat as a teenager in the living room with her and her brother many evenings and watch as her mother come out screaming at her for no reasons really, she gets into some sort of an argument with her boyfriend in the bedroom, by which is where they spent 98% of their time doped up, watch some tv and crash. I seen this girl many times be beat and slapped by her mother for not having coffee made for her when she got up. It wasn’t until she was about 30 years old that she told me that she had been raped many times by her uncle from the time she was 10 years old and 3 times by that drugged up boyfriend that I had the displeasure of meeting. But she was afraid to say anything or tell her mother, because she knew her mother wouldn’t believe her. When I was about 18 years old, I was in her neighborhood and stopped by to visit my friend. I got to the house and only the mother was home, Her mother had offered to trade sex for drugs if I went out somewhere and bought her some. The Dad had tried to gain custody but the courts and lawyers drained him dry to the point he couldn’t afford to fight anymore. When she turned 16, she ran away and lived with her Grand mother, (Her mothers mother) The grand mother upon learning all the facts laid out the law on her daughter and told her she better never come around and she better stay miles away from her daughter. Her Grandma was really a cool woman, even nearly 80 yrs old last time I had seen her and she is always out working her lawn and gardens and when she not doing that she is doing something with the church groups.

        As far as other homosexuals, I have known and meet and been in contact with many all over the world, especially in places like S. Korea, Philippines and Thailand. some are just acquaintances some are better known. I know about 8 male gays here in America that are acquaintances to me but one of them are friends with my girlfriend and he runs around with them as a group because they are all Filipino. As long as they live and let live and keep their hands to them self, I have no problem with them. The girl friend says that he acts completely different when I or anther guy is in the group. He talks or tries to talk like “one of the guys”, But when it is all woman, he acts feminy with the fake tears and the limp wrist type body language and so on.

        Bob666 says: “One issue is having survivor benefits as a legitimate spouse in making decisions in the event of illness or death. Another is health insurance and many large corporations have figured this out and are offering these benefits to same sex “spouses”.

        I can understand that point, and for that I would support an act that would give them survivor benefits. However in many States a “living will” can give the same rights as far as possessions, and even life insurance and 401k policies and such. Anyone can be named beneficiary, All I can think of that survivor ship benefits would be in question would be Social security payments. Everything else can be handled with “living wills” As far as Health insurance, large corporations versus the family owned business, I have separate opinions on, which non business owners will disagree with me on. I think that business owners should be able to run their business on the principles and values that they choose is best for their business and not be told that they have to hire “x” amount of blacks, or whites or illegals or women or gays, if it is a privately owned business. It is their money and their labor that has opened and built that business, they should not be told who they must support or hire or face fines and be forced out of business if they don’t comply. That is not freedom nor free enterprise or free market when a government tells you, sure you are free to open a business, but you need 12 different permits and must hire this and this and this and your company must run this way.

        If I accept a job or decline a contract because something about their political view is not inline with my opinion, it is my freedom of choice to accept or decline that job. I do not expect people nor do I want to force people to accept me or my opinion and if they don’t then sue them or try to shut them down. I simply move on down the road to the next potential contract. When chemistries are different it always has a hindrance on the business at hand. Like oil and water, no matter how much you try to mix them together, they never come together as one team or body. They might occupy the same area but never mix well. Furthermore, If a business owner has a difference of opinion as mine and perhaps we don’t see eye to eye, they don’t care to deal with me and the feeling is usually mutual. we just tolerate each other, but never really mix well. I move down the road, I have worked with people where the whole workforce was like family, same as when I spent more than 15 years on a fire department, we were like family. I have worked with companies that are not so family. For example: I worked at a location that 90% of their employees on the floor were Mexican workers, of the 120 Mexicans, 7 of them were legal immigrants. Then I go home and and talk to neighbors and friends that are struggling to keep their homes and feed their children, on several occasions I have had to float some cash to 2 of my friends so they could buy some food for their kids because things occur and wipe them out, such as car problems, HVAC problems by which wiped their savings to get heat back in their home or whatever. They can’t find work, but the company I’m working for has got illegal immigrants that are not paying taxes, paid by cash and some of them were making nearly $20 per hr tax free. They did not sign up for company health for 2 reasons, 1) they didn’t want a paper trail, and 2nd they said they don’t need to pay for health benefits because they just go to the emergency room and get for free. Thereby, the rest of us couldn’t get decent group healthcare rates because only 15% of the company signed up being office workers, use engineers and the skilled trades. As a example: I was paying nearly $282 a month just for my health care. When I got married and applied my wife and she got pregnant, my premium jumped to almost $800 a month. Then when my twin girls were born my premium was over $1200 a month. It was just about as much as my mortgage payment. So basically, I just bought a second house by getting married and having twins. I paid it for 2 months and switched them onto a separate plan outside my company. Still between my healthcare and theirs was costing me nearly $800 a month. That is nearly $10 grand a year just for health insurance not including the co pays and other things. They said that if at least 80% of the company participated in the group health care our premiums would drop in half. But we knew that will never happen. The illegals are not going to pay for health insurance when they can get medical care for free. So anyway, I could no longer work for that company based on my opinions and things I seen with my friends unable to find work, yet illegals in this Country working, not paying taxes and getting free health care with the assistance of these business owners.

        As I said earlier, my wife is a foreigner and we spent thousands of dollars for her to be here plus a lot of time. With the interview and application of spouse visa being over a grand itself and attorneys totaling over $8000 when it was all said and done. Then these illegals come here breaking the laws rules and the regulations and expect to be rewarded with what many others have to work so hard for and many have to wait years to get their approval visa’s to come here. These illegals sasha across the border and start making demands and holding their hands out for any freeby our governments will load them up with.

        Bob666 says – “As far as pedophiles go, I don’t believe that you are even close. From my reading, while there are no doubt pedophiles who are gay in their sexual orientation, most tend to be heterosexual or bisexual.”

        I wasn’t suggesting pedophiles were gay, i was suggesting that they will be the next to claim they have a right to love who they want as is often the defense of the homosexuals. With governments legislating that underage girls for example NJ a girl as young as 14 canget an abortion without the parents consent or even their acknowledgement of the process. while they think their daughter is at school, she is actually in some doctors office having a medical procedure done on her. I might encourage you to search “Family Watch” and see what things are being proposed under the UN. They are proposing that girls as young as 10 years old can get abortions without parental knowledge. My question is, who are these people making these suggestions and why? Sounds to me like it is attempts to hide and protect pedophiles from the parents seeking charges against them. More importantly, If they can justify that a 14yr old even a 10 yr old is of a mature enough age to make a decision such as abortion, then why can’t they also be justified as being mature enough to consensual sex with an adult. Its just my opinion, but every fabric of my being tells me that is the next to come down the line once the homosexual topic die down.

        lastly, as far as Homosexuals rights go, as I have said fine I agree let them have survivor ship benefits and healthcare benefits if the company so chooses to offer it. But no one has the right to or should have the right to be forced to do something that goes against their belief religious or not.

      • WILDFIRE

        Bob666 says – “Yo RRRRRRR,
        I have no interest in going to a gay pride parade as well. But the if you respect the first amendment, you respect their right to have it. As far as legal rights, same sex couples do not have the same as you an I do and I don’t understand why they should not.”

        WOWWWW – Try to chalk up the perversion that takes part in these types of parades such as being “indecent exposure” and “public nudity” as a first amendment right. Great news!!!, I suspect we could all save a lot of money in clothing if its perfectly all right and legal under the first amendment to extend our perverted intentions onto public streets.

        (shaking head) – Its amazing how the liberals can consider it hate speech if someone so much as says something in opposition of the government, but find it perfectly acceptable under the 1rst Amendment for perverted grown men to expose their self to all the little girls and boys walking down the sidewalks and streets.

        Want to have a parade for a specific purpose that is fine in this case for “gay pride”, they can express their pride in ways that are civilized without “indecent exposure” and “public nudity” and acting in a uncivilized manner.

        Like it or not, many of these homosexuals that are pushing for these so called “equal rights” are nothing more than trying to gain access to children.

        FACT: these perverts @ gay pride parades want to expose their self to anyone and everyone including little children. I do not see heterosexuals expressing their self on public streets in parades or other wise by walking around nude in public areas in groups to celebrate that they are straight.

        FACT: Homosexuals have been trying to gain access to our children through such things as the “Homosexual classroom Act” where it is requirement to teach children as young as kinder about homosexuals and to encourage underage children to explore their sexuality and promote promiscuity rather than promote abstinence.

        FACT: Homosexuals further attempt to try to gain access to children by such acts as having “Gays Days” at Childrens amusement parks such as “Disney Land”. Of all places to express and celebrate your sexuality is to be at a children’s amusement park. Not at some private resort or beach that is remote and off access to the public and children.

        FACT: Now they target areas where the highest concentration of children will be in one location. Such as downtown public streets, Schools, Children amusement parks such as Disney Land and lately they have been attacking to gain access to children through the Boy Scouts of America, by which they have already gained access to the Girl Scouts.

        • Bob666

          Yo Wildfire,
          Fact: I get the message-your homophobic, we read you loud and clear.

          • WILDFIRE

            Ahh yes…. playing the typical liberal tactic of when faced with facts that are irrefutable always resort to name calling and labeling and failed attempts to distract from facts by trying to turn the subject off of the homosexuals and onto the opposition.

            If being concerned that gay baits are exposing them self and their perverted ways to Americas children in public streets, Schools, Disney Land and Attempts to with infiltrate and pervert the boys scouts of America organization classifies me in the shallow and narrow minds of the liberals as a homophobe, then so be it. I don’t give one ia oh da what liberals label me as, but I will not stand by and let liberals drag my Country’s morals and principle’s and values down to their level to accommodate their perverted lifestyle’s so they can have access to pervert and push their perversion onto the minds of innocent and naive children that are unable to protect them self from the onslaught of attacks to these childrens parental guidance, when parents are trying to raise their kids with principle, values morals and integrity and then they send them off to a public school where gay baits like your self access them and pervert their minds with immoral acts.

            Furthermore, If the cycle of life was intended and natural for its very existence and to prevent imminent extinction, then why in order for life to continue it requires a male and a female union to continue the cycle of life with any warm blooded mammal on this planet. If it was NORMAL and NATURAL for two humans or any mammal of the same sex to be joined in union, then why did natural not create all warm blooded mammals as unisex?

            The good thing about liberals and apparently gay baits like your self is that between homosexuality and the inability to procreate will eventually put you into extinction like the dinosaurs and the liberals with their abortions will help keep both groups on the endangered list as long as we can protect our children and keep them safe from your perverse sense of immoral lifestyle.. That is why the liberals and the homos want access to other peoples children to pervert their minds, because they can’t procreate their own children to pervert and the ones that can procreate abort theirs so they need to seek other people’s children to carry on the perversion.

            Like it or not, nature intended male species to have a specific purpose and likewise females to have a specific purpose and when joined they form what is known as a family and continue the cycle of life by their creation. Something homos cannot do and liberals don’t want the responsibility to do unless they can get some form of cash for children to make it worth their while for having to be responsible and inconvenienced. Many liberals look at children like they did the program “Cash for clunkers”, Children used as a source of income.

          • Bob666

            Yo Wildfire,
            “playing the typical liberal tactic of when faced with facts that are irrefutable always resort to name calling and labeling and failed attempts to distract from facts by trying to turn the subject off of the homosexuals and onto the opposition”.

            ho·mo·pho·bi·a (hm-fb-)
            n.
            1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
            2. Behavior based on such a feeling.

            ——————————————————————————–

            Simply making an observation, not looking for a debate on the issue.

      • WILDFIRE

        R. Fine says: “Actually I happen to find those parades disgusting as well so I don’t go to them. The few gay people I am friends with do not go to them as well. But in our society parades are not illegal. Regardless of that it is unfair that a partner in a long term relationship (same sex) does not have the same inheritance rights as married people just as one example.”

        My comment to Bob666 can also apply to your comment as far as the parades. It amazes me how liberals want to try to distract and spin things by saying such things as “parades are not illegal”, Stating the obvious being that parades are legal and ignoring the illegal and uncivilized actions that take part in those parades.

        Some of what I stated to Bob666 in another comment is as follows:
        WOWWWW – Try to chalk up the perversion that takes part in these types of parades such as being “indecent exposure” and “public nudity” as a first amendment right. Great news!!!, I suspect we could all save a lot of money in clothing if its perfectly all right and legal under the first amendment to extend our perverted intentions onto public streets.

        (shaking head) – Its amazing how the liberals can consider it hate speech if someone so much as says something in opposition of the government, but find it perfectly acceptable under the 1rst Amendment for perverted grown men to expose their self to all the little girls and boys walking down the sidewalks and streets.

        Want to have a parade for a specific purpose that is fine in this case for “gay pride”, they can express their pride in ways that are civilized without “indecent exposure” and “public nudity” and acting in a uncivilized manner.

        Like it or not, many of these homosexuals that are pushing for these so called “equal rights” are nothing more than trying to gain access to children.

        FACT: these perverts @ gay pride parades want to expose their self to anyone and everyone including little children. I do not see heterosexuals expressing their self on public streets in parades or other wise by walking around nude in public areas in groups to celebrate that they are straight.

        FACT: Homosexuals have been trying to gain access to our children through such things as the “Homosexual classroom Act” where it is requirement to teach children as young as kinder about homosexuals and to encourage underage children to explore their sexuality and promote promiscuity rather than promote abstinence.

        FACT: Homosexuals further attempt to try to gain access to children by such acts as having “Gays Days” at Childrens amusement parks such as “Disney Land”. Of all places to express and celebrate your sexuality is to be at a children’s amusement park. Not at some private resort or beach that is remote and off access to the public and children.

        FACT: Now they target areas where the highest concentration of children will be in one location. Such as downtown public streets, Schools, Children amusement parks such as Disney Land and lately they have been attacking to gain access to children through the Boy Scouts of America, by which they have already gained access to the Girl Scouts.

        I’ll bet many people are not aware that Disney Land a Child’s amusement park celebrates sexuality events typically around the first week of May. I find that disturbing and completely inappropriate of a place to promote and advocate anything pertaining to sex one way or another regardless to hetero or homo.

        Now you liberals can try to hide, lie, distract and conceal the fact that the majority of homosexuals target children and access to them through such places as the above mentioned and claim that their primary goal is simply “inheritance rights” and “healthcare” is BS. They push more for access to children on any and every front more so than they do on healthcare and inheritance rights by which largely can be acquired through a “Will” and now with the infamous Obamacare, they claim that all will have healthcare including the homo’s long term partner.

        • R. Fine

          As far as pedophilia goes it is mostly prevalent in the heterosexual community. In any case as far as child molestation goes you might want to direct some of that scorn of your at the Catholic church.

    • joe1cr

      Even the rich and powerful can deny their God and his commandments. The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). Romans 1:26-27 teaches specifically that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. 1 Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that homosexual “offenders” will not inherit the kingdom of God.

      God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true with homosexuality.

      However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).

      • robbiefine@hotmail.com

        Yes the Bible says lots of stuff but do you REALLY believe it all? Really? Do you ever let your own logic or judgement or common sense come in to play? Do you accept the Biblical rule that homosexual persons must be put to death? Really?

        The point is that Republican Senator Portman’s son was born that way. He felt that way from very early childhood as does the daughter of Vice President Chaney. The people who wrote the Bible didn’t know much about human biology or any biology for that matter. They had very little factual information to go on. I salute the Senator for being able to finally see reality now that his own son spoke to him. I know many gay men and women and generally they are very gentle people and not at all sinners. Many of them have a same sex partner who they love because that is how they feel. We should be rewarding love not punishing it. Most of your mass murderers, by the way are heterosexual violent macho male types.

        I can bet for sure that you don’t follow every last commandment in the Bible (and for good reasons). I suggest you drop this anti gay nonsense as well. Our world will be better when you learn what Senator Portman has learned: love others and do not hate.

      • Charlie

        robbiefine,heathen,,,
        A “”Sinner”" as named in The Holy Bible, DOES NOT have any rights when under The Judgment of The Almighty God… The state god exceeded it’s Authority when giving a “”"License”"”to “”SIns”"… SO???,,, what ever state god it is , that state will “”Suffer”" The Judgment of The Almighty God… AND that’s why America is suffering… ALL RIGHTS!!!
        come from The Law Book and History Book of King Jesus Christ……… Meanwhile………….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • robbiefine@hotmail.com

          Yes, the Bible has a lot to say about homosexuals. That’s true. And you, Charlie. think the Bible should be followed to the letter of the law. So, Charlie, why don’t you go out with your gun (s) and start shooting gays? Afterall the Bible says that gays should die. But you won’t do that will you Charlie because you know that that would be wrong. That would be murder. That would be against American law. You won’t do it Charlie because you know deep down that the Bible is wrong when it comes to killing gay people like VP Cheney’s daughter.

      • Kevin

        I am going to disagree with your assertion People are not born Gay and that some are just susceptible. I am not Gay and can only relate through my relationship with a first cousin for my Opinion. I grew up with my first cousin and we have known each other from the beginning and I can say without a doubt that he has been Different than what you would normally expect from a boy to a young adult. When he finally came out it was no surprise to anyone. I will also admit that there may be those who simply choose to become gay but I do not have any personal Knowledge of this.
        I am not a christian Basher and would not ridicule anyone who believes in the Bible. Having said that I would encourage you to do a little study and find out more about the origins of this good book. 1. when the original Cannon was compiled and by whom. 2. who actually wrote the “Books” in the Bible (and when).
        When I see someone try to support their claims with Verses gleaned from the scriptures as a reference material I am less likely to give credence to their argument. simply because I view the Bible as a History Book of sorts Filled with accounts of early Roman and Hebrew life. as well as other things but a history book none the less. I mean no Offence by this statement to you but I am only expressing my beliefs.
        The difference Being this.
        1. Do you believe that the Bible is the literal word of God?
        Or…
        2. Do you Believe that the Bible contains the word of God?
        If you answer # 1 then you leave yourself open to attack from those who would point out the Inconsistencies and or contradictions in the Bible.
        If you answer #2 then you have more of a chance to put forth an Interpretation of what it is you think God is saying through the written word within the Bible.

        With Respect K.T.

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        “robbie” asks: “Charlie, why don’t you go out with your gun (s) and start shooting gays?..

        Old Testament: “If a man also lies with a male, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; THEY SHALL SURELY BE PUT TO DEATH; their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13)

        robbie, we are living under the New Testament and It does not tell us to kill even Perverts. Final judgment belongs to God and he clearly points at the place, where he will send the SINNERS.

        New Testament about sexual PERVERSION:
        “That is why God abandoned them to THEIR SHAMEFUL DESIRES. Even the WOMEN turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in SEX WITH EACH OTHER. And the MEN, INSTEAD OF HAVING NATURAL SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH WOMEN, BURNED WITH LUST FOR EACH OTHER. MEN DID SHAMEFUL THINGS WITH OTHER MEN, and as a result of this SIN, they suffered within themselves the PENALTY THEY DESERVED.” (Rom.1:26, 27)

        “Those who are dominated by the flash think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit. IF YOUR FLESH DOMINATES YOUR MIND, THERE IS DEATH. But if the Holy Spirit controls your mind, there is life and peace. For THE MIND THAT IS SET ON THE FLESH IS HOSTILE to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed it cannot be. Those, who are in the flesh cannot please God.” (Rom.8:5-6)

        “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFEMINATE, nor ABUSERS OF THEMSELVES WITH MANKIND, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” (1Corinthians 6:9 – KJV)

        “FLEE SEXUAL IMMORALITY. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he WHO COMMITS SEXUAL IMMORALITY SINS AGAINST HIS OWN BODY.” (1 Corinthians 6:18 – NKJV)

        “For you may be sure of this, that everyone, WHO IS SEXUALLY IMMORAL OR IMPURE, or who is covetous, has no inheritance in the Kingdom of Christ and God. LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU with vain words, for because of these things the WRATH OF GOD COMES UPON THE SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE. Therefore DO NOT ASSOCIATE WITH THEM … Walk as children of light, proving what is acceptable to the LORD. TAKE NO PART IN THE WORKS OF DARKNESS, BUT INSTEAD EXPOSE THEM.” (Ephesians 5:3-11) and more.

        robbie says: “Charlie you know deep down that the Bible is wrong…”
        Robbie, NO ONE could disapprove the TRUTH, PERFECTION and ACCURACY of the Bible. And do not deceive yourself that you can do that

        “EVERY WORD OF GOD PROVES TRUE; He is shield to those who put their trust in Him. DO NOT ADD TO HIS WORDS, lest HE REBUKE you and YOU BE FOUND A LIAR.” (Proverbs 30:5-6)

        “So shall My word be that goes out from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and it shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.” (Is.55:11)

        “’Behold, the days are coming,’ declares the LORD GOD, ‘when I will send a famine on the land – not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the WORDS of the LORD.’” (Amos 8:11)

        “Your word is true from the beginning and every one of your righteous judgments endures for ever.” (Ps.119:160)

        “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is PROFITABLE FOR TEACHING, FOR REPROOF, FOR CORRECTION, FOR INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2Timothy 3:16-17)

        “Jesus answered him: ‘It is written that man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God.” (Mt.4:4; Lk.4:4)

        “robbie”, Jesus Christ warned us about “compassionate” propagandists/liars like you:

        “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits…a diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. EVERY TREE THAT DOES NOT BEAR GOOD FRUIT IS CUT DOWN AND THROWN INTO THE FIRE.” (Mt. 7; Jer.23)

        Robbie, Do NOT waste your time to OVERWRITE Creator, do NOT add to It what it DOES NOT MEAN; do NOT DESTORT & TWIST His Word to justify your PERVERSION & DEPRAVITY. God gave to every man FREE WILL. He said what is GOOD and what is SIN/EVIL and it’s the man’s choice.

        But “Each of us shall give an account of himself to God.” (Romans 14:12)
        Not to you, Robbie.

        “WICKEDNESS PROCEEDS FROM THE WICKED.” – (I Samuel 24:13)

        “Heaven and Earth will pass away, but My WORDS WILL NOT PASS AWAY.” – Jesus Christ (Mt.24:35; Mk.14:31; Lk.21:33)

        • R. Fine

          Charlie advocates following the Bible and I would note that the Bible starts with the Book of Genesis (Old Testament). You correctly repeat what I said which is that God says gays shall be put to death. Don’t tell me that the Old Testament is not part of the Bible. Actually it is the ORIGINAL Bible with the New Testament having been added afterwards.

      • Charlie

        robbiefine, heathen,,, Kevin , heathen,,,
        Read Matthew 5:17 and see what King Jesus said about The Law…………………………………
        Thanks Alondra for Your Scriptures writings ……………………………

        • Kevin

          Its not necessary to do so Charlie. you prove yourself time and again to be a very poor example of the teachings of Christ. I will urge you again to study your New Testament some more as you seem to have missed the main Message. God Bless.

          • R. Fine

            I’ve suggested to Charlie time and again that he read – and follow – the Sermon on the Mount. At first he didn’t seem to even know about it! He keeps suggesting that Jesus is some kind of military commander. Charlie also has some admiration for Hitler and Nazis and neo-Nazis not to mention some mental issues.

          • Kevin

            I’m beginning to think that he is not who he says he is. I am starting to suspect he is here for another reason…. Of course I am a bit jumpy these days…lol

          • R. Fine

            I hear you.

        • R. Fine

          O.K. already. It’s a sin. So why don’t you grab your gun and get out there and blast a few o’ them gays to kingdom come. After all your Bible says that gays must die. Go for it big guy.

      • Texas Ride

        Robbiefine, you must be gay.

        Ohomo is a moo and homosexuality is part of that cult. There are countries where this abomination is part of their culture, the citizens are not “born homos,” it is something they are taught from a very early age. That is what happens here, many times. Young boys are taught about being homos by the sick ones hanging around schools, children of all ages.
        Our children need to be protected from these very sick men.

        Homos don’t need to be recognized or be given special “rights.” That is what they want, but what they” really” want is ACCESS to our kids!

        I don’t want to hear about how homos just want “inheritance rights,” as an excuse to have GOD BLESS their unholy union. All they need is to go to an attorney and make a “Will!”

        • R. Fine

          So gays are taught to be that way from a very young age? Very interesting. I suppose VP Cheney taught his daughter to be a lesbian. Now that seems really likely. And Republican Senator Portman taught his son to be gay. Frankly you are not thinking very clearly at all.

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,robbiefine,,,all , heathens in general ,,,
        IF,,,??? you have not accomplished Acts 2:38,,,then! most likely you are not a Christian PER The Book,,,SO???,,, should I pay much attention to nitwit nerds that are deep into their “”"Brainwashing”"and don’t even know what brainwashing is??? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ,,,you nerds are a joke … Meanwhile………………………………..
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • Kevin

        I forgive you Charlie. Good luck.

    • Kevin

      Jeremiah 23:26

      How long shall there be lies in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies, and who prophesy the deceit of their own heart.

      • Kevin

        I forgive you charlie. Good luck.

      • R. Fine

        I’m not actually sure what you are getting at with your Jeremiah quote but I do know that Senator Portman was anti gay in theory but when his own child who he deeply loves turned out to be gay the Senator faced reality and changed his views (correctly I might add).

        • Kevin

          I am sorry … my Post was Intended for “Charlie the self proclaimed Prophet”

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,
        There you go again ,,,taking Scripture out of contexts,,,try Harmonizing Jeremiah 23 and you may see it’s pointing out some of your sins… Jeremiah 1:1 “” Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of My pasture!”" declares the Lord. “”… Harmonize Scripture
        harmonize Scriptures ,,,HARMONIZE SCRIPTURE… Got it??? Meanwhile…………………………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • Charlie

        R.Fine,,,
        Also,,, Jeremiah 23:14 applies to all you homo nerds……………………………………………..

        • robbiefine@hotmail.com

          What a shame that you are so incapable of answering even the most simple question about your Bible. You are good at spouting insults however. The problem is a lack of knowledge, experience, insight, and intelligence

        • Bob666

          Yo Charlie,
          What part of the Bible commands you to call people “Homo-Nerds”? since you are the bible teacher, just thought that I would ask.

      • Charlie

        Yo yo Nerd, Bob666,,,
        My authority to call any heathen a nerd comes from David’s actions against the giant.. See that at 1 Samuel 17… Also see what King Jesus said at Luke 19:27 and Luke 22:36..

  • BrotherPatriot

    Really enjoyed the read, Bob even though the topic of information is terrifyingly true & you are “kid gloving” It. (wink)

    God Bless your work.

  • http://www.booksbyoliver.com OhioRiver

    Yes, great article and the idea of keeping the U.S. Constitution in the conversation and what it really meant when it was approved by the colonial states. Contrary to the NYTimes & TIME magazine, the U.S. Constitution is not dead.

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      Really…….

      http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/freeman/freeman4.htm

      what remains of it, doesn’t seem to bear any resemblance to what you
      believe or understand it to be……..not does is resemble anything your
      imagined “populist” heroes have said it is ( Paul, Napolitano, etc. ) nor
      does it resemble anything in the Tea Party, the Libertarian Party, or
      any other Party, nor most of the “writers” ( any of them ) on sites like
      this, say it is?

      Why is that?

  • http://GOOGLE PERRY HOLMES

    there was a bill in the washington state house that said ,no one could use DRONES in washington state with out getting the ok from law makers first then BOEING who makes the drones went to the law makers and said if this bill passes there will be a lost of jobs and a loss of money for boeing.the law makers then pulled the bill so who are law makes really working for?me or boeing they should be voted out of office.

  • http://twitter.com/coastx LD (@coastx)

    More pop culture alternative news sourcing doing what their big brothers learned to do 30 years ago: write for entertainment purposes only. WHAT 2nd AMENDMENT? People don’t even know what this is?

    Guns!

    WRONG… NATIONAL SECURITY, MILITIA and THEN guns. We don’t have savvy thinkers in national security. We don’t HAVE Militia. We have GUNS and NO BRAINS!

    Hallelujah for asteroid that’s going to take this planet and mankind out of the picture so we don’t take this elsewhere in the universe. Could you imagine our simple minded species taking over the Ga…

    … FORGET TH- AT!

    • truckjunkie

      I think it’d be worthwhile for you to save the drugs until AFTER you post. They seriously interfere with your communication skills.

      • Kevin

        I was going to suggest Stroke??

  • http://personalliberty Alondra

    BRAKING NEWS BRAKING NEWS BRAKING NEWS

    Yesterday Orly Taitz attended CPAC convention and met and talked with the Member of the Judiciary Committee Congressman Louis Gohmert, Senator Jim Inhofe, Congressman Steven King and retired Senator and current president of the Heritage Foundation Jim DeMint.

    Orly asked them if members of the Congress and the members of the Judiciary Committee indeed felt that it is proper for O’Homobama to use the SSN which NEVER was assigned to him and failed to pass the E-Verify system, which is operated by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) in partnership with the Social Security Administration (SSA).

    She also asked Congressman Louis Gohmert if he knew that in January Department of Justice appeared before Judge England, stating that THEY REPRESENT the U.S. Congress and on behalf of the U.S. Congress THEY OPPOSED THE INJUNCTION of the certification of Obama’s electoral votes.

    Gohmert stated IN FRONT OF ALL THE REPORTERS that he NOTHING new about these issues and that the Department of Justice NEVER gave him any Court papers or reports.
    Congressman Steven King took the documents and promised that his staff will review all the info and will prepare an executive report.

    Again, the Department of InJustice went behind the U.S. Congress’ back and LIED in the Court that they represent the U.S. Congress, but never gave them any pleadings or documents.

    Conclusion: the Department of InJustice acted as a private criminal defense attorney for the Kenyan FRAUD and Taxpayers paid the bill.

    “Magna est veritas et praevalet” – “The truth is great and shall prevail”

    “Fiat justitia ruat caelum” – “Let justice be done though the heavens fall”

  • joe berger

    comparing the present day bush obama governments to the Nazis is total foolishness, and shows how little you understand the Nazi movement. The Nazis were fighting for “the destruction of Bolshevism ( Marxism )….and the survival of Western Civilization. They lost … and with our help the communists won. Yes indeed it was the likes of the SPLC who really won the war. And we have persued Marxist ideas ever since. Yes… Bush and Obama are social Marxists. along with a good smattering of Plutocracy.
    The BIG IDEA in National Socialism was ANTI COMMUNISM and its philosophical replacement called VOLKSGEMEINSCHAFT. ( Everybody… rich and poor alike working together for the benefit of everyone ) Bush and Obama certainly cannot ever be said to be supporters of that concept.

  • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

    Disposing of O. Manuel: This has been placed here because you seem lost, do not answer the questions asked…….and can’t seem to find the “reply” button……nor
    produce a “relevant response” when you do use it.

    You seem to have a “problem” responding to either “english” or questions asked in ” english”………….why is that?

    You have been presented with the “problem of the unification of physics and metaphysics”, and it has been pointed out to you, that you have not “solved” or “resolved” this problem and why…….

    Do you not understand the question or the problem?

    Do you not understand that regardless of how many links you have posted to supposed “scientific claims” you will still have not solved or resolved the problem?

    Do you not understand that whatever the correct science is……….

    The reality revealed by experimental data, measurements and observations on the material world is fully compatible with the reality that is realized by meditation, prayer and contemplation on the spiritual world.

    you can not achieve the results stated by DECLARING THIS TO BE TRUE!

    Or do you NOT understand the difference between a “reality” revealed by “experimental data, measurements and observations” and the “imagined reality” that is and has been the “result” of ” meditation, prayer and contemplation”?

    If the latter were a realiable “source of the TRUTH regarding REALITY” there would be NO CONFLICT between metaphysics and physics, or if you like “science” and “religion”………because “science” would have simply been a “confirmation” of all the “truth” that had already been revealed by “religion”?

    Unless you are a “willfully ignorant, functional illiterate” this is not what science has indicated, and despite what YOU BELIEVE the “science to be”, this is NOT WHAT YOUR SCIENCE has indicated.

    Whatever consistency you imagine exists between your science and your metaphysical belief system, you HAVE FAILED TO DEMONSTRATE that consistency, or actually give any indication of what your “metaphysical belief system” is?

    The root of society’s demise is government deception about energy in the cores of heavy atoms (Th, U, Pu), planets (Jupiter, Saturn), ordinary stars (the Sun) and galaxies (Milky Way) that started in 1946 .

    The relationship between energy and matter, E = MC^2 seems to have preceded this conspiracy by a few decades, why is that? Also you have ignored the following questions…….stated predviously:

    Just curious, but if the calculations of the component elements of the sun are wrong, wouldn’t the mass of the sun be miscalculated also?

    And if this were TRUE, wouldn’t all the gravitational calculations within our solar system, between the sun and all orbiting bodies, also be wrong? ( and this gets worse because the “earth”s composition has already been noted as being mostly Fe! ( iron ))

    Why? Fear that humans might misuse nuclear energy to destroy life on Earth, including the lives of world leaders.

    That seems reasonable and still a possible concern, but only if those who have the technological capability yield to the insanity., which seems highly unlikely. Which brings us to this question, asked by many here.

    “What the heck does this have to do with the Patriot Movement?”

    Everything ! We must each search for reality, truth for ourselves to be effective Patriots.

    True Patriots must think for themselves, instead of consuming government propaganda as a pig eating slop.

    This is the typical mindless rheotoric which is “common mushroom feed” for this site……..is this why you think you have a future here?

    Too bad, because “mindless” means mindless……and while I can see the “attraction”……..your mythology had better be “identical” to the “mythology” of those you seek to impress.

    The word “patriot” really has no meaning in this land of rhetorical babble……..simply because there is no understanding of “history” or the real reasons for the “revolution” or the “motivations” of those “patriots” that are often cited as the “enlightened inspiration” for it……..so for most………their understanding of “history” is “propaganda”…..and references to the Declaration and the Constitution, do not alter this fact, for these were “effects” not causes………and given enough TIME, this REALITY will become “obvious”…….

    Regardless of how long this takes, YOU HAVE NO FUTURE HERE. The “willfully ignorant, functional illiterates” are a notorious and cantankerous lot……..but they can not hang because they rely on rhetoric…..and avoid, fact and logical reasoning and are easily EXPOSED!

    You have been EXPOSED by simple questions you can not and will not answer……..how many more times will you have to be asked?

    “He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.” ( far more relevant quote of Orwell )

    • Charlie

      GALT,,,
      You have some faults,,,but,,,you did get the energy equation right this time,,,now ,,,give us
      a close guess how fast ,in MPH , your Mass is going to moving toward the black hole of outer space… Then you may have some bragging rights,,,as a “”Scientist”"… BTW the earth is only part Iron “”"Ore”"”,,,get a little more specific when writing the word Iron… Also the iron near the Sun surface is there primarily as a “”Heat Sink”"”…. Meanwhile………….
      Praise King Jesus for Salvation and The Healing Sun… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

      Charlie Freedom

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Charlie, did you mean to say that “YOU WERE WRONG”?

        Were you apologizing for “being WRONG?”

        Get used to it……when you wander into the world of facts, logic and
        intelligent reasoning……….( which is clearly unfamiliar territory for you )
        you will probably be WRONG.

        Other than your admission that YOU WERE WRONG…….the rest of your
        post is “irrelevant non sequitur”……….and as with all your other attempts,

        You are once again, DISMISSED!!!!!!

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        P.S. Whatever point your had regarding “iron” and ORE and “whatever”?

        http://quake.mit.edu/hilstgroup/CoreMantle/EarthCompo.pdf

        It doesn’t alter the nature of the questions asked of O. Manuel or change
        the fact that he hasn’t answered them?

        8 oxygen O 460,000
        14 silicon [A] Si 277,200
        13 aluminium Al 81,300
        26 iron Fe 50,000
        20 calcium Ca 36,300
        11 sodium Na 28,300
        19 potassium K 25,900
        12 magnesium Mg 20,900
        22 titanium Ti 4,400

        This is a table of crustal abundance of the elements ( lithosphere )

        The table shows the abundance of elements in Earth’s crust. Numbers show percentage or parts per million (ppm) in mass; 10,000 ppm = 1%.

        Note that numbers are estimates, and they will vary depending on source and method of estimation. Order of magnitude of data can roughly be relied upon.

        Also the linked article described the (inner core) as being mostly Iron and nickel.

        and nickel is way down the list……

        universal abundance for elements ( easily found ) is different.

        This is a breakdown for “our galaxy”.

        1 Hydrogen 739,000 71 × mass of Oxygen (red bar)
        2 Helium 240,000 23 × mass of Oxygen (red bar)
        8 Oxygen 10,400
        6 Carbon 4,600
        10 Neon 1,340
        26 Iron 1,090
        7 Nitrogen 960
        14 Silicon 650
        12 Magnesium 580
        16 Sulfur 440

        Other than reacting to GALT and the my little RED SYMBOL,
        what is the “point” of your participation in this “topic”?

        Further confirmation of your w.i.f.i. condition is not required.

      • Charlie

        GALT,,,
        Is Truth ever wrong ??? No,,just ,,,some times misinterpreted… But,,,you got one thing right ,,,I’ve been a non squirtter for a number of years …………………………………………

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      BTW Oliver K. Manuel??????????

      A pulsar (portmanteau of pulsating star) is a highly magnetized, rotating neutron star that emits a beam of electromagnetic radiation. This radiation can only be observed when the beam of emission is pointing toward the Earth, much the way a lighthouse can only be seen when the light is pointed in the direction of an observer, and is responsible for the pulsed appearance of emission. Neutron stars are very dense, and have short, regular rotational periods. This produces a very precise interval between pulses that range from roughly milliseconds to seconds for an individual pulsar.

      The precise periods of pulsars makes them useful tools. Observations of a pulsar in a binary neutron star system were used to indirectly confirm the existence of gravitational radiation. The first extrasolar planets were discovered around a pulsar, PSR B1257+12. Certain types of pulsars rival atomic clocks in their accuracy in keeping time.

      If “The SUN is a Pulsar” as you claim, it does not seem that you have made
      much of an “impression” on your peers…….in fact, you seem to impress no
      one but yourself……and other scientific illiterates ( bloggers like you ).

      Maybe this is part of the “plot”……which includes search engines?

      • http://http/google MarkOwen

        [personal attack has been removed]

    • http://http/google MarkOwen

      Have been reading his posts for quite some time. What can be gotten out of them is that he is a bellicose strutting poppinjay. Probably just a mamas boy who did not have too many friends. He seems to derive pleasure out of his diatribes, mostly meant to impress some and belittle others. He has no honor! The destruction of our country is close at hand, and all he cares about is who is right about what fuels the sun. he should GET A LIFE!

      • http://http/google MarkOwen

        That goes to the rest of you, you who let yourselves be bothered by such inconsequencial trivia. The problem of the unification of physics and metaphysics. Welll Duuuhhh! Gee , I never thought of it that way, guess I’ll have to open that damn book again!

      • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

        Actually Mark, that is the critical question of existence, itself.

        It, in fact is “littered throughout this site” by people who KNOW the answer,
        which is the problem………O. Manuel, is simply a “special case”.

        But I would be curious to know which book you would “crack open”?

  • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

    Below are ten (10) experimental observations that indicate the Solar System formed directly from poorly mixed supernova debris and the Sun formed on the pulsar core.

    http://personalliberty.com/2013/03/11/the-patriot-movement/#comment-855386

    Here are two short summaries of the observations.

    1. “The Sun’s origin, composition and source of energy”
    http://www.omatumr.com/lpsc.prn.pdf

    2. “Composition of the solar interior: Information from isotope ratios”
    http://www.omatumr.com/abstracts/gong-2002.pdf

    Go ahead, Galt. Explain the observations.

    With kind regards,
    - Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo

    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      The reply button is beneath the post that have questions for YOU!

      How many time will they have to be asked? Because they will be asked
      every time you post here.

  • Kevin

    There is growing, irrefutable evidence, however, that the Crimean Khazars, whose kingdom extended over what is now the Ukraine to the Caspian Sea, officially converted to pure Mosaic Judaism in 861 under the rule of King Bulan. The Khazars do not appear to have been a people unto themselves, but rather a blend of many races resulting from the heavy trade that was going on at the time. The campaign of the Rus (Russian) Prince Svyatoslav of Kiev effectively broke the back of the Khazarian empire in 965 AD, although Khazar itself continued until at least 1030 AD. Under the growing persecution of Kiev Rus in the 11th and 12th century, the Khazars disappeared as a people. Nonetheless, there is overwhelming evidence that at least a portion of the Jewish Khazars fled to Eastern Europe and north into Poland and Lithuania.

    [excessively long cut-and-past post edited. please use a hyperlink]

    • Kevin

      Sorry Folks this was an excerpt from a reply to something else …. My Apologies

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,
        Now you’ve done something right,,,accidentally of course,,,you gave the name of one of the best Preacher / Evangelist in America,,,his name is “Ted R. Weiland “,,,his website is, missiontoisrael.org … Notice,, in The Bible that Shem was “THE” best son of Noah,,,but,,,also notice about 7 to 10 generations later there was a split in the lineage of Shem , that was when Esau was born with his twin brother Jacob… OK ? today the good white guys are the lineage of Jacob Israel,,., the bad white guys are the lineage of Esau Edom … Ok? when you get that clear in your head… We will tell you who the “Anti- Christ” is today as revealed in The Bible……………..
        Meanwhile… Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • Kevin

        ((((((Message to others posting here)))))))
        The reason for my previous Post was for the purpose Of Identification. I hope this is helpful to you so that you do not waste your time with this Individual. with respect K.T.

    • Kevin

      Helpful Information for Understanding “Charlie’s” Psychosis

      http://www.discerningtoday.org/members/Digest/2001digest/mar/are_the_jews_really_israelites.htm

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,
        Get a second opinion from GALT,..ha ha aha ha ha ha ,,,maybe I’m just a “”Functional Psychotic”
        after all We do know The Bible better ,,,a little better than You… There are 3 definitions for the word “Jew” in The Bible,,,do you know them???

      • Kevin
  • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel

    The New York Times recently reported intriguingly correct information on the Sun:

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/03/19/science/space/0319-solar.html?_r=0

    Over my research career, hundreds of space-age measurements and observations have shown conclusively that Earth’s heat source is also the source of energy that:

    a.) Made our elements,
    b.) Birthed the Solar System 5 Gyr ago,
    c.) Sustained the origin and evolution of life after 3.5 Gyr ago, and
    d.) Endowed mankind with special talents and unalienable rights to self governance,
    e.) The Sun is the creator, destroyer and sustainer of lives and worlds in the Solar System

    That various religions have worshiped throughout recorded history: http://tinyurl.com/ahfx8kl

    World leaders formed the UN in 1945 and tried to hide the Sun’s source of energy !

    With kind regards,
    - Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo

  • http://omanuel.wordpress.com omanuel
    • http://gravatar.com/plfprime GALT

      Nope…no answers to the questions are there either…..

      • Charlie

        GALT,,.
        You have some faults ,,, have you worked out the equation for Truth??? found at Psalm 119:160 ??? Meanwhile…Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation , because Peter said so at 1 Peter 3:21………………………………………

        Charlie Freedom

      • Kevin

        Here is some truth just pick which side you want to be on and you can find it in these Bi-Polar scriptures.

        Robbery commanded
        Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
        Robbery forbidden
        Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
        Lying approved and sanctioned
        Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
        Lying forbidden
        Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
        Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
        2 Kings 14:7,3
        Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
        Deut 23:7
        Killing commanded
        Ex 32:27
        Killing forbidden
        Ex 20:13
        The blood-shedder must die
        Gen 9:5,6
        The blood-shedder must not die
        Gen 4:15
        The making of images forbidden
        Ex 20:4
        The making of images commanded
        Ex 25:18,20
        Slavery and oppression ordained
        Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
        Slavery and oppression forbidden
        Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
        Improvidence enjoyed
        Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
        Improvidence condemned
        1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
        Anger approved
        Eph 4:26
        Anger disapproved
        Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
        Good works to be seen of men
        Matt 5:16
        Good works not to be seen of men
        Matt 6:1
        Judging of others forbidden
        Matt 7:1,2
        Judging of others approved
        1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
        Christ taught non-resistance
        Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
        Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
        Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
        Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
        Luke 12:4
        Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
        John 7:1
        Public prayer sanctioned
        1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
        Public prayer disapproved
        Matt 6:5,6
        Importunity in prayer commended
        Luke 18:5,7
        Importunity in prayer condemned
        Matt 6:7,8
        The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
        Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
        The wearing of long hair by men condemned
        1 Cor 11:14
        Circumcision instituted
        Gen 17:10
        Circumcision condemned
        Gal 5:2
        The Sabbath instituted
        Ex 20:8
        The Sabbath repudiated
        Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
        The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
        Ex 20:11
        The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
        out of Egypt
        Deut 5:15
        No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
        Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
        Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
        the same
        John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
        Baptism commanded
        Matt 28:19
        Baptism not commanded
        1 Cor 1:17,14
        Every kind of animal allowed for food.
        Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
        Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
        Deut 14:7,8
        Taking of oaths sanctioned
        Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
        Taking of oaths forbidden
        Matt 5:34
        Marriage approved
        Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
        Marriage disapproved
        1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
        Freedom of divorce permitted
        Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
        Divorce restricted
        Matt 5:32
        Adultery forbidden
        Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
        Adultery allowed
        Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
        Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
        Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
        Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
        Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
        A man may marry his brother’s widow
        Deut 25:5
        A man may not marry his brother’s widow
        Lev 20:21
        Hatred to kindred enjoined
        Luke 14:26
        Hatred to kindred condemned
        Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
        Intoxicating beverages recommended
        Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
        Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
        Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
        It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God’s ministers
        and punish evil doers only
        Rom 13:1-3,6
        It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
        good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
        Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
        Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
        Women’s rights denied
        Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
        Women’s rights affirmed
        Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
        Obedience to masters enjoined
        Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
        Obedience due to God only
        Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
        There is an unpardonable sin
        Mark 3:29
        There is not unpardonable sin
        Acts 13:39

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Kevin,

          Nice job of taking verses out of context. I could explain it all to you, but unless you’re willing to see it it would be a waste of both our times. And by the way, your efforts are not appreciated here.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

          • Kevin

            I would think that as a christian you would not appreciate Charlies efforts either Bob. But if you only wish to critique me that is of course your prerogative as you play God here on your thread. I assume this will make the cut???? Yes??? as Ive said before I have no Ill will towards actual Christians but I do take Issue with the likes of Charlie. If he is allowed to Blather and post about How god hates and his anti-semitic stance on unrelated subjects then I am curious why my equally Non -topic replies are an Issue.
            With Respect K.T.

          • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Kevin,

            You write: “I would think that as a christian you would not appreciate Charlies efforts either Bob.” I have addressed Charlie directly before.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • R. Fine

            Actually Kevin’s efforts certainly ARE appreciated here. His postings are not only often funny but they are factual, scientific, logical, and intelligent.

      • Kevin

        Mr. Livingston
        Also sir you seem to have missed the point of my Scriptural contradiction post. It was an attempt to point out that depending upon your Interpretation of scripture, you can make an argument for almost anything. and it has been my contention throughout my comments that using the Bible to argue on a “Political” site is not a good basis for Honest debate. People in this country are of all persuasions some Religious and some not. My understanding is that Politics and Religion are two separate subjects. unless of course you are a Muslim then of course they are Inexplicably intertwined. and we see how well that works.
        With Respect K.T.

      • Charlie

        Kevvin,,,
        I can take a dictionary and make it say anything by just choosing words to write… No big deal…..

      • Kevin
  • http://http/google MarkOwen

    It looks like Piers Morgan will have to deport himself, there will be no assault weapons ban. He’s on this morning with Michael Moore, they’re boo hooing about the ban being shot down, plus Feinstein said she did the best she could. I would guess her best wasn’t good enough! By the way it was not a personal attack, It was a statement of fact if you would take the time to read all the bull that comes out of him!

  • R. Fine

    How can homosexuality be a punishment from sin when people are born that way. Are they born having already sinned? That seems kind of strange does it not. Homosexuality is a natural event for a certain percentage of the population and don’t forget that homosexuality exists in some bird species. Don’t tell me birds are sinners too!

    • http://naver samurai

      You lie R. Fine (kang). We both know there is no gay gene, so quit telling the same lie that has been refuted and proven false by many people on this site since 2009. Here is something showing how the state of Kansa has passed legislation sayin life begins at conception.

      http://www.lifenews.com/2013/03/20/kansas-house-passes-bill-stating-human-life-begins-at-conception/

      Looks like your side is losing the war on women and the unborn. Prayer does wonders, doesn’t it. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

      You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

      “Faith is not faith without believing. No man can conform his faith to the dictates of another. The life and essence of religion consists in the internal persuasion or belief of the mind. External forms of worship, when against our belief are hypocrisy and impiety. A church is a voluntary society of men, joining themselves together of their own accord, in order to the public worshipping of God in such a manner as they judge acceptable to Him and effectual to the salvation of their souls.”

      Thomas Jefferson
      Notes on Religion 1776

      *He talks about God, church, and salvation. No deist here. Sound Christian to me.

      • WILDFIRE

        Samurai – Don’t waste much time or thought on R Fine. He has spent the last 3 or 4 days on the subject of homosexuals under a article about partiots movements by which I don’t think he has made one comment pertaining exclusively to the article. Any comment he makes deals with homosexuals and his claims that homosexuals are born with a gene is nothing more than grasping at straws to try to justify his homosexuality. By which has been discredited and proven to be false claim by many professionals. The calims were made in an attempt to try to say that homosexuals should be under a protected class of people. His notion that homosexuality is normal and natural is absolutely false.
        study after study has proven that homosexuality is usually influenced by ones upbringing or various events that might have happened in their life particularly as a child. For example: Boys that are exclusively raised by a female figure with little to no male influence in their childhood have a tendency to be more feminine, just as girls that have more male influence in their childhood have a tendency to be more “tom boyish” I.E gets into racing cars, motorcycles, not afraid to play in the mud or pick up a worm and put it on a hook or walk into the pig pen and clean out the stalls type things. This doesn’t mean she is likely to be a lesbian, but is an example of how influences in a childs live has major impacts. Other influences can be of a unpleasant event such as molestations or rapes.

        A mother in I believe it was wyoming, was suing the Girl Scouts because they would not allow her boy who she said was a transgender to join the girl scouts. She proceded to state that every since her son was 2 years old, he has always dressed like a girl and played with dolls. At 2 years old, who was dressing and supplying those girls clothes to the 2 yr old boy? How was the boy getting baby dolls as toys to play with? who was buying the girls clothes and toys for the boy. Certainly if you are going to treat a boy as a girl, then obviously he is going to be a confused 8 yr old boy and not know his gender. He knows nothing else but what his parents have instealed into his mind. Fact of the matter is, she likely wanted a girl and got a boy, so she just treated him like a girl and as a result the child has grown up confused of who he is because of the sick and twisted mind of a parent. Had he been dressed and treated like a boy, he wouldn’t have the identity problem and he would fit right in with all the other little boys his age. @ 2yrs old you do not make the decision of who or what your identity is, what you wear, how you act is character traits that are taught to you from your parents or care giver if parents are not engaged and active in the childs life from the time you are born. children from the time they are born are taught and in this case indoctrinated, manipulated and brainwashed to think he is a female because the selfish mother wanted a girl instead of a boy.

        Anyway, pay no attention to R. Fine desparate attempts to try to grab straws to justify his homosexual intentions are to be natural and normal and tries to convince others when it is he who is confused.

        • R. Fine

          Your information on sexuality seems to be from third party sources and not actually from observing actual cases. I have 6 children and 11 grandchildren all of whom are straight and I have several friends and relatives who are gay. In all cases of homosexuality the actually people tell me that they “felt that way” from as far back as they could remember. And how is it that a straight couple with several children who are “normal” come up with one who turns out to be gay? How is it that the Cheney’s have a lesbian daughter or the Portmans? You need to get more experience with individuals who are gay or lesbian. You also need to learn that there is great variety in the human species and simple homosexuality is not even the most “unusual”. I suspect that your attitudes are highly influenced by religious dogma that are not based on human biology.

        • http://naver samurai

          I understand what you are saying Wildfire and you are correct. It just riles me how someone would say that their lifestyle is acceptable in this Christian nation, then they try to quote Scripture to back up what they say. Especially since the Bible says just the opposite of what they have posted. All they have to do is look up these verses.

          Lev. 18:22
          Lev. 20:13
          1 Cor. 6:9 – 10
          Romans 1:24 – 32
          1 Tim. 1:8 – 11
          Jude 1:7
          1 Kings 14:24
          1 Kings 15:12 – 13
          1 Kings 22:46
          Genesis 19:4 – 11
          Revelation 9:13 – 21

          Read Genesis 19:23 – 25 and 27 – 28 to see how God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for their perverted, abominal sexual ways. God had created marriage to be one man and one woman, no exceptions, no excuses, no straying from the straight and narrow path. For God and Jesus would say of anything else, “The marriage bed is defiled.”. which means no one but a man and his wife are to do such things. I’m surprised that R Fine, Bob antichrist, and Kevin, who said he wanted to be a pastor, would not know these things. I guess that they are all 5th columners. Traitors to God, country, and our Christian founding. Here is something more important then this perverted lifestyle.

          http://www.westernjournalism.com/the-manchurian-president/

          FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

          You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves these 3 out.

          “The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God.”

          Thomas Jefferson
          Notes on the State of Virginia 1784

          • R. Fine

            Must break this news to you: there is no god. Just as there is no Zeus and no Re and no Annubis and no Thor and no Vishnu and no Appolo and no Wizard of Oz. Oh, and there’s no Tooth Fairy either. It’s all made up by man: myths, stories, nursery tales written by folks who knew nothing of the natural world or science. Mankind has learned so much since those days only some folks are still stuck back in ancient and even pre-historic times. But as the saying goes: God was created in the image of man.

          • http://naver samurai

            SSDD, eh R. Fine? If that is your name. I challenge you to prove what you say in true. Only credible sites or sources. No atheist, secular, or left wing wacko sites. Lets see if you are a MAN and pick up the gauntlet that I have thrown at your feet. A MAN would. Second, what you have said not only goes against the beliefs of our Christian founders, but all you have to do is look at Genesis 1 & 2 to know there is God. People like you are not worthy of debating. Here is a question for you, but are you MAN enough for a truthful answer? What proof and evidence can you provide that shows atheism to be accurate and correct? I can tell you in a one word answer, “NONE!” Here is the list of our 6 Fundimental Principles:

            1. There is a Divine Creator (GOD).
            2. The Divine Creator (GOD) gives guaranteed rights to man.
            3. Government exists to protect God-Given rights.
            4. There is a God-Given moral law to govern man.
            5. Below God-Given moral law, man is governed by social compact – that is, the “consent of the governed.”
            6. If the government fails to operate in this manner, it is the right of the people to change it or form a new one.

            The first 4 are absolute and cannot be changed by anyone but God. Neeeeed to be making that popping sound. Numbers 5 & 6 is what the people are trying to do now. Are you MAN enough and patriotic enough to do the same thing? I thought not. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

            You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

            “The fool has said there is no God within his own heart.”

            Psalms 14:1
            Psalms 53:1

          • R. Fine

            Well it’s not really up to me to prove that there is no god or no Zeus or no Thor or no Tooth Fairy or no Wizard of Oz. It’s impossible to prove or disprove the existence of something that does not exist (except in myths and fairy tales and movie starring Judy Garland). But if you are so keen on god why don’t you try to prove to me that that exists? In other words be a real man and pick up the gauntlet.

            In the end your proof will only rest on the Torah which, of course, was written by the Hebrews in ancient times which proves nothing other than that they were pretty imaginative and creative people. And wonderfully poetic at times. Your beliefs are just that – beliefs. Things that depend on nothing more than faith. By the way why don’t you believe in Annubis?

            And remember be a man, a real man, a macho man, a man’s man. O.K. man?

      • Bob666

        Yo Sammybabble,

        and you know this how???

        Here is proof that you don’t know the new Pope!

        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/20/pope-francis-civil-unions_n_2917222.html?ncid=webmail12

        you jave to have a clue to make a point and win-you lose!

        • http://naver samurai

          Ah yes, here comes Bob antichrist with a posting about Huffington Post. That post is so far left that is has no credibility on this site. If you want to know some thruth about the new Pope, just look at this article.

          http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/03/pope-francis-clear-on-denying-communion-to-politicians-who-facilitate-abortion/

          Now this is the truth about Pope Francis. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

          You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

          “It shows how necessary was the care of the Creator (GOD) in making the moral principle so much a part of our Constitution as that no errors of reasoning or speculation might lead us astray from its observance in practice.”

          Thomas Jefferson
          Letter to Thomas Law
          13 June, 1814

          • Bob666

            Oh Sammybabble,
            “Ah yes, here comes Bob antichrist with a posting about Huffington Post. That post is so far left that is has no credibility on this site. If you want to know some truth about the new Pope, just look at this article”.

            And the article just reports the story. So, since the story conflicts with your altered state of reality, you discount the facts they report and blame it on the source. Sounds much like the story of your life-all made to order. Based on the bastion of right wing fringe sites that you quote, Huffington is refreshingly credible. Oh, Google the storey, it been picked up by three other news outlets.

            Being so consistently wrong must be embarrassing? One has to deal with facts to claim a grounded sense of reality-that leaves you out.

          • http://naver samurai

            Ah, yes. The personal attack. Classic 5th column strategy. The Huffington post is nothing more than a liberal rag for less intelligent people. Here is something showing how the MSM is attacking the new Pope, due to his views on queers, abortion, and other things. Which you can clearly find in the Bible and in the sayings of our Christian founding fathers.

            http://www.lifenews.com/2013/03/19/media-attacks-pope-francis-pro-life-views-calls-him-midieval/

            The Pope is correct on his stance and the 5th column is not. Care to prove what he said is false? No left wing wackp, secularist, or atheist sources. Only something with credibility. Ooops! I forgot that since you have no credibility, this will be impossible for you to accomplish. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

            You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves you and yours out.

            “”With consistency, beautiful and undeviating, human life – from its commencement to its close – is protected by the common law. In the contemplations of law, life begins when the infant is first able to stir in the womb. By the law, that life is protected.”

            James Wilson

            *Ha, ha, ha, ha! The laws of this land protect the unborn. So much for the murderers that support Roe vs. Wade. Long live the 14th Amendment!

          • Bob666

            Oh SammyBabble,
            “Ah, yes. The personal attack. Classic 5th column strategy. The Huffington post is nothing more than a liberal rag for less intelligent people. Here is something showing how the MSM is attacking the new Pope, due to his views on queers, abortion, and other things. Which you can clearly find in the Bible and in the made up word we claim that were said by our Christian founding fathers”

            Ah, yes. The claim of personal attack, Classic 5th column strategy (I’m not going to tell you who the 5th column is-the voices in my Samuri head won’t even tell me). The Huffington post is nothing more than a liberal rag for less intelligent people, but the average IQ is higher than that of seven of the ten voices in a Samurai Brain. Here is some right wing propaganda that Samurai’s make up showing how the MSM is attacking the new Pope since Samurai’s don’t deal with reality very well. Which you can clearly find in the Bible and in the sayings of our Christian founding fathers including Thomas Jefferson, because we ignore his atheists tendencies since it does not fit our right wing agenda.

          • http://naver samurai

            Thomas Jefferson had atheist tendencies? Ha, ha, ha, ha! Where did you get that information? Jefferson read the Bible, believed in God, went to church, tried to evangelize certain Indian tribes, and believed in Jesus, so how could he be an atheist? Atheism, BTW, had nothing to do with our founding, so get over it. It still has nothing to do with this Christian nation today. If he was, he would be going against what it says in the Bible. You know, “A man cannot serve two masters. Either he will love the one and hate the other, or he’ll cling to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and mammon.” The other things are just personal attacks from someone bereft of sources and facts. Here is something showing a victory over the murderers of babies.

            http://www.lifenews.com/2013/03/20/kansas-house-passes-bill-stating-human-life-begins-at-conception /

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

            You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

            “The church must take the right ground in regard to politics. Politics are part of a religion in a country as this, and Christians must do their duty to their country as a part of their duty to God.”

            Rev. Charles Finney

          • Bob666

            Yo SammyBabble,
            “Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear”.
            Thomas Jefferson
            3rd president of US (1743 – 1826)

          • Bob666

            Oh Sammy Babble,

            “Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity”.
            -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

          • Bob666

            Oh So S Wrong Sammy,

            “But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg”.
            -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

          • WILDFIRE

            Thus in the spirit of the Enlightenment, he made the following recommendation to his nephew Peter Carr in 1787: “Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear.”[1] In Query XVII of Notes on the State of Virginia, he clearly outlines the views which led him to play a leading role in the campaign to separate church and state and which culminated in the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom: “The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. … Reason and free enquiry are the only effectual agents against error.[2] Jefferson’s religious views became a major public issue during the bitter party conflict between Federalists and Republicans in the late 1790s when Jefferson was often accused of being an atheist.

            “them to our God.” – Jefferson acknowledges he believes in God with the words he used being “our God” – then he goes on to say that the believes of others holds no injury to him what their personal belief is. It matters not what his neighbors belief is, it has no effect on his personal belief or life.

          • Bob666

            Yo Wild,
            your response is based on………….

            Jefferson made a lot of quotes that questioned the concept of Christ and he was very much intrigued with science which is often in conflict with the bible even to this day.

            I believe that Jefferson went through stages in his life as most people do and questioned the bible as many people often do when confronted with the facts that science presents.

            One will never know for sure, we can only speculate about Jefferson and many of the other signers of the those documents.

          • WILDFIRE

            Jefferson believed in the existence of a Supreme Being who was the creator and sustainer of the universe and the ultimate ground of being, but this was not the triune deity of orthodox Christianity. He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ, but as he writes to William Short on October 31, 1819, he was convinced that the fragmentary teachings of Jesus constituted the “outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man.”

          • Bob666

            Yo Wildfire,
            I believe Jefferson was a freemason and you just described what many believe.

          • WILDFIRE

            1821 February 27. (Jefferson to Timothy Pickering). “no one sees with greater pleasure than myself the progress of reason in it’s advances towards rational Christianity. when we shall have done away the incomprehensible jargon of the Trinitarian arithmetic, that three are one, and one is three; when we shall have knocked down the artificial scaffolding, reared to mask from view the simple structure of Jesus, when, in short, we shall have unlearned every thing which has been taught since his day, and got back to the pure and simple doctrines he inculcated, we shall then be truly and worthily his disciples: and my opinion is that if nothing had ever been added to what flowed purely from his lips, the whole world would at this day have been Christian. I know that the case you cite, of Dr Drake, has been a common one. the religion-builders have so distorted and deformed the doctrines of Jesus, so muffled them in mysticisms, fancies and falsehoods, have caricatured them into forms so monstrous and inconcievable, as to shock reasonable thinkers, to revolt them against the whole, and drive them rashly to pronounce it’s founder an imposter. had there never been a Commentator, there never would have been an infidel. in the present advance of truth, which we both approve, I do not know that you and I may think alike on all points. as the Creator has made no two faces alike, so no two minds, and probably no two creeds. we well know that among Unitarians themselves there are strong shades of difference, as between Doctors Price and Priestley for example. so there may be peculiarities in your creed and in mine. they are honestly formed without doubt. I do not wish to trouble the world with mine, nor to be troubled for them. these accounts are to be settled only with him who made us; and to him we leave it, with charity for all others, of whom also he is the only rightful and competent judge. I have little doubt that the whole of our country will soon be rallied to the Unity of the Creator, and, I hope, to the pure doctrines of Jesus also.”

            (couldn’t highlight the main area I wanted to discuss, so copied and pasted)

            “when we shall have knocked down the artificial scaffolding, reared to mask from view the simple structure of Jesus, when, in short, we shall have unlearned every thing which has been taught since his day, and got back to the pure and simple doctrines he inculcated, we shall then be truly and worthily his disciples: and my opinion is that if nothing had ever been added to what flowed purely from his lips, the whole world would at this day have been Christian. I know that the case you cite, of Dr Drake, has been a common one. the religion-builders have so distorted and deformed the doctrines of Jesus, so muffled them in mysticisms, fancies and falsehoods, have caricatured them into forms so monstrous and inconcievable, as to shock reasonable thinkers, to revolt them against the whole, and drive them rashly to pronounce it’s founder an imposter.”

            From what I get from what he says is that in his opinion that over the years the religion builders have perverted and distorted Christianity through rewriting and within translation and interpretation of those charged with the authority to translate and interpret from one language to another have twisted and perverted the true teachings of Jesus.

            Much like we see in modern day politics and our education system. In our politics, we have people constantly trying to rewrite or misinterpret or spin, distort and deform (as Jefferson stated about Christianity) the meanings of the Constitution and various laws to meet their intended goal or achieve their intended outcome through manipulation of words. Same as we are experiencing in our education system and the ones charged with writing our educational books. Every time a new edition of history books are printed, History gets a little more distorted and deformed towards what ever belief the editors want the students to think, such as these days, there are accounts of people trying to twist and manipulate history to rather than reflect what really happened and why, they pervert history into what they want up and coming generations to believe. Such as the “Boston Tea Party is now referred to as an example of “Domestic Terrorism” and intentional defamation of indians. Organizations claiming that the Holocaust never happened and is a lie and trying to discredit all accounts and whip out and edit any and all evidence and photos and even discredit those who are still alive to attest to it.

            Much like it seems you are trying your best to discredit or reject the fact that Jefferson was Christian and first claiming he was not Christian and absolutely a atheist and now claiming he is a freemason which is basically what we know in modern day terms as “Conspiracy theory” as no one knows for sure if he was or not. I’m not sure if your intentions are to discredit or in some fashion defame those that believe in Christianity, or if your intention is to in some way justify or reinforce your stance as what it appears you to be a atheist. It seems you have spent the better part of this past week and likely your entire life trying to manipulate and persuade others to think the way you think through using manipulation and when that doesn’t seem to come to fruitation, then you resort to belittlement and name calling as a way to try to embarrass others who don’t believe what you believe. The exact opposite from what Jefferson did or believed.

            I’ve watched for the past week not only you but other here as well belittle and ridicule and try to embarrass those who do not hold the same opinion as you which is a typical character attribute of the leftist/liberal. An absolute disrespect for your fellow mans opinion. Rather than live and let live and accept that not everyone sees things the way you see them, you and others seem to feel you need to attack and discredit and belittle those of a different opinion. I can copy and paste on just about every entry made by you and the other liberals where somewhere through out the message an attack is either made on their intelligence, their knowledge or their belief. Is it because you liberals feel inferior or have some sort of inferior complex and you feel you need to point out the kinks in other peoples armor? Or is it you liberals suffer from a superiority complex and you need to beat down and belittle any and all opposition so as to not be challenged?

            I have seen you post many excerpts such as these from Jefferson by which you post one or two sentences of a paragraph in which if those 2 sentences were taken out of context alone would bring one to think in lines of which you are trying to suggest. In other words you offer 20% of the story and edit out the other 80% of the story that don’t benefit where or what you want the conversation to go. Much like what MSNBC does when they edit out important portions of their stories as well as most all other news reporting agencies to lead readers or listeners to believe what they want those to believe rather than putting it out there and let people decide for them self the truths. Also none as mind control and manipulation and even brainwashing by which our government has become so efficient at doing and they even admit to it whats more. For example: None other than our own AG Eric Holder states on the record and video that we must “Brainwash” our children to believe that guns are evil and bad.

            As far as your thoughts of Jefferson being a freemason, some have thought that, I guess because he didn’t fall into the “sheeple” crowd of believing everything the religion builders try to brainwash him with and knowing the natural intentions of man to twist and distort their fellow mans thoughts in order to gain power and control over them. I’m further inclined to think he was not by his writings and his actions, at the same time he did not try to discredit those that were freemasons or non believers.

            In my opinion of Jefferson is he believed that what ever god you, yourself believe in, is yours and yours alone and between you and your god or the lack there of. It causes no injury to any other what you believe in, or who you pray to or the lack their of. He did not believe in forcing his religious belief upon others nor did he believe any one has the right to force their belief on others. In Short, He displays that he is a type of live and let live and respect thy neighbor by who they are not what they are type of person.

          • Bob666

            Wow Wildfire, Wow,

            “Much like it seems you are trying your best to discredit or reject the fact that Jefferson was Christian and first claiming he was not Christian and absolutely a atheist and now claiming he is a freemason which is basically what we know in modern day terms as “Conspiracy theory” as no one knows for sure if he was or not. I’m not sure if your intentions are to discredit or in some fashion defame those that believe in Christianity, or if your intention is to in some way justify or reinforce your stance as what it appears you to be a atheist”

            First, as for Jefferson, I will agree that no one knows and we both cite opinion on what we have read. I have never said that Jefferson was an atheist. I said that Jefferson had atheistic tendencies and there is a difference. Reading many of his quotes, he obviously had questions and he was also very much involved with science.

            “In my opinion of Jefferson is he believed that what ever god you, yourself believe in, is yours and yours alone and between you and your god or the lack there of. It causes no injury to any other what you believe in, or who you pray to or the lack their of. He did not believe in forcing his religious belief upon others nor did he believe any one has the right to force their belief on others. In Short, He displays that he is a type of live and let live and respect thy neighbor by who they are not what they are type of person”.

            I will agree with that statement almost 100%.

            If you had paid attention, this was an exchange with someone who goes in the opposite direction making statements Like: All of our founding father were church going believers in Christ and 100% of our government was founded on the principal of Christ and you have to believe in Christ to be a patriot AND THAT LEAVES YOU OUT.

            As for myself, You assume that I am an atheist, but you are wrong on that point. I do not feel a need to wear my religion on my sleeve and do get offended when someone tries to shove their religious beliefs done my throat and that would be no different for a Muslim. I believe our founding fathers structured the first amendment so that you and I are free to have this dialog on the religious views that we both hold while we each worship in separate churches, none of which are state sponsored.

          • WILDFIRE

            Bob Says: – “Wow Wildfire, Wow, First, as for Jefferson, I will agree that no one knows and we both cite opinion on what we have read. I have never said that Jefferson was an atheist. I said that Jefferson had atheistic tendencies and there is a difference. Reading many of his quotes, he obviously had questions and he was also very much involved with science.”

            “I will agree with that statement almost 100%.”

            “If you had paid attention, this was an exchange with someone who goes in the opposite direction making statements Like: All of our founding father were church going believers in Christ and 100% of our government was founded on the principal of Christ and you have to believe in Christ to be a patriot AND THAT LEAVES YOU OUT.”

            Yeah, I did read some, but will admit I didn’t read them all. Usually when the subject such as this being “Patriot Movement” turns into a religion conversation, I have a tendency to move on to the next comment and not finish reading. I think we both hold the same or similar opinions on ones religious belief is for him and him alone. Its of course ok to discuss each others beliefs and ideas. But in these blogs as any blog on the internet it always turns into a uncivil conversation which ends up turning into name calling and personal attacks on each others character if opinions vary.

            “As for myself, You assume that I am an atheist, but you are wrong on that point. I do not feel a need to wear my religion on my sleeve and do get offended when someone tries to shove their religious beliefs done my throat and that would be no different for a Muslim. I believe our founding fathers structured the first amendment so that you and I are free to have this dialog on the religious views that we both hold while we each worship in separate churches, none of which are state sponsored.”

            Your right I did make the assumption you was atheist simply because you seem to be attacking Christianity more so than defending it. Most people who are Christians don’t point out the negative parts of the Bible. I didn’t consider you to likely be a part of a “satanic cult” (joking.. to break it up a bit). As far as your statement of “Shoving their religious belief done the throats of others”. I agree, I don’t appreciate that either. People will post a valid comment and then end with some sort of scripture or tie it into the bible which for me just discredits the whole comment they just made when they try to tie religion into a non religion subject.

            I don’t exactly know why people feel the need to apply their personal religious beliefs into every statement they make. I sometimes think it is more for show “Hey look at me, I’m religious and therefore more righteous than you” type of mentality. I have come across people from a church that see me smoking a cigarette and shake there head and point a finger and maybe even lecture me on “my sin”, then a few nights later see them walking in or out of the local strip dancing bar or see them out some where cheating on their spouse. A lot of people I have meet at church’s I think go just for show, just so they can say they belong to a church, but by their actions and character outside and away from the church you wouldn’t know it. For me, Catholics are the worse, but that is probably because I’ve had personal experiences with a few pathetic girls that classified their self as a “Catholic”. Where they figure they can commit sins, lie, steal and cheat all week long and on Sunday go to confession, say a few “hail Mary’s” and they are wash clean and good to go for another week of the same ole, same ole. Ha Ha….

            Another thing that drives me crazy are all the keyboard commando’s on these blogs, where they turn combative and violent in the form of profanities and name calling when someone don’t agree with them. They get offended because someone disagrees and then once name calling and belittling ensues, then the other returns fire with a barrage of name calling and belittlement of their character, once that starts, it usually don’t end with a hand shake and a mutual understanding and respect for each other. The behavior online is unlike in real life. These people wouldn’t dare say the things they say in real life face to face because they know they would likely warrant them self with a well deserved tune-up and attitude adjustment. So they get online under the blanket of protection of their keyboard and monitor and run off at the mouth all they want knowing there will be no consequence.

            This is a big problem particularly here in America, because in the end we may not agree on all subjects but we are all or mostly all Americans and we should be fighting for the same goal to find solutions to correct the problems and try to do our part to make our country a better place rather than bickering with each other. In the end nothing gets resolved and a lot of time and energy is wasted and still faced with the same problems as we were at the onset.

          • Bob666

            Yo Wild,
            “This is a big problem particularly here in America, because in the end we may not agree on all subjects but we are all or mostly all Americans and we should be fighting for the same goal to find solutions to correct the problems and try to do our part to make our country a better place rather than bickering with each other. In the end nothing gets resolved and a lot of time and energy is wasted and still faced with the same problems as we were at the onset”.

            Again, I agree 100%.

            I have been a libertarian for over 30 years now. I don’t believe that I have the right to tell you if can or can’t own a gun, but you don’t have the right to tell my wife, sister or daughter if they can have an abortion. There are cost to have these freedoms and for my daughters reproductive rights, the cost can be an abortion and for your right to own a gun, the cost can be a death by a gun.

            I accept these cost, but at some point, society will reevaluate the second amendment in my lifetime.

            Our founding fathers lived in a time where they experienced the dark side of organized religion and I believe they wanted to safe guard the American public from the tyranny of men who will do harm to one another in the name of God.

            I was raised in a religious home by a father in the military who was very well educated in many religions. After years of Sunday school and reading the bible to me at night before I went to bed, he also reminded me that more people have been killed in the name of god than for all other reasons combined.

            For me, life is a balance of faith, patriotism and the quest to maintain a moral center, One of the many values that I was taught was to never to knuckle down to a bully and there are many on this site.

            You are correct when you refer to the keyboard commandos who talk big, but are probably five feet tall and weight 150 lbs. Sites like this give a repressed personality the opportunity to escape and often they will amuse me here on this site.

          • Bob666

            Oh Sammy-It is So!

            “Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination”.

            -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

          • Bob666

            Oh Sammmybabbbbble,
            “I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians”.

            ..-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote “Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism less pernicious than Demonism?”)

          • Bob666

            Yo Yo Sammy-O,
            “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State”
            .
            -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

            I could continue this all night, How could you be so wrong? reality really sucks!

      • Kevin

        Your Debating about your Christianity….. No one cares that you are a christian except other Christians. If you think Homosexuality is a sin…. no one cares…. except other Christians.
        If you wish to debate the subject Of homosexuality with a Non Christian then you should attempt to Debate it without using your Scriptural sources as it is without merit to a “Non Christian” otherwise it simply appears that you are attempting to convert someone…. or you are simply using the conversation to Proselytize to the poor Heathen Masses.
        I would think that with everything going on right now in this country and the Terrible direction that its Headed, you would have Better things to concentrate on than whether or not a man prefers a man for Intimate relationship or a woman for that Matter.
        Good Lord why do you care??? Its non of your business anyway…. why don’t you Get that HUGE log out of your own eye before you attempt Moral superiority with others.

        • WILDFIRE

          Kevin Says – “I would think that with everything going on right now in this country and the Terrible direction that its Headed, you would have Better things to concentrate on than whether or not a man prefers a man for Intimate relationship or a woman for that Matter.
          Good Lord why do you care??? Its non of your business anyway…”

          I agree with you on the first part of your opinion about citing scripture to none Christian.
          However, I have to disagree with you on the last part. The homosexual agenda is contributing to those goings on in this Country and the world for that matter by which they have caused mass assemblies of protests all over the world and people are showing opposition because in their opinion it is a contributing factor to the degradation of our societies. The Homosexual agenda has been on every front trying to “force” everyone to think and believe and accept and support their lifestyle. They are attacking our schools such as with the “Homosexual classroom act” where it makes it mandatory teachings of children starting as young as kinder that homosexuality is normal and natural which is nothing but a blatant lie and it even goes as far as describing in manuals of how the classes are to be conducted including giving specific details of the sexual acts by which children simply don’t need to know especially at those ages. I they want to learn or take classes on the subject in College, have at it, but no form of sexual classes need to be discussed to children as young as 6 yrs old.

          You ask “Why do you care? Its none of your business anyway….. If the homosexuals kept their business to them self, then it wouldn’t be any ones business. But when they are attacking children and class rooms to pollute other peoples children’s mind with their perversion then it does become their business. When these Homosexuals come into a church and demand that the clergy marries them, knowing it goes against the churches belief and when the clergy refuses to marry them as it would violate his believe and duty as a man of the cloth. Then they attack the church and the clergy with lawsuits and try to force others who are not of the same opinion as them to violate their rights of opinion and expression to accommodate the homosexuals rights to expression. When they are attacking peoples churches and their pastors or other clergy, then it is their business because they are protecting their church and their religious freedoms by which the homosexuals are attacking.

          Their latest attack has been on the “Boy Scouts of America”, by which, is for one a private organization and they do not support immoral acts. Two: they have a oath or a promise they take as a scout in which homosexuality goes against their oath of morals and duty to God.

          The oath is as follows:
          Scout Oath (or Promise)

          On my honor I will do my best
          To do my duty to God and my country
          and to obey the Scout Law;
          To help other people at all times;
          To keep myself physically strong,
          mentally awake, and morally straight.

          The Homosexual activists cannot stand an organization that does not support nor agree with them. They speak of tolerance and ask for mutual respect but have no tolerance for anyone who don’t agree with their lifestyle or the homosexuals do not offer the same respect they demand of others. When the Homosexuals are attacking our children not only in our schools but also try infiltrating our childrens various groups and changing their principles and beliefs to be inline with their perversions it is our business. Parents want and try to raise their children with a certain set of values, morals and character. When 1-3% of a population is attacking the other 97 – 99% of the people, it becomes their business when they and/or their children are under attack.

          If the Homosexuals want to be accepted and respected, then live and let live and leave everyone alone, leave their children alone, leave their churchs and religious freedoms alone.

          Most everybody if not all people would be fine if the homosexuals left them alone and their children alone such as the Boy Scouts and form their own group such as the “Gay scouts” or whatever they would like to call their group by which they can dictate their own oath and policy without encroaching on others beliefs. If they want to be joined in a union then go to a magistrate or even a church if they can find a clergy that is willing to perform the ceremony, but don’t force them with the threats of do it or else law suits and encroachments on your beliefs will be forced upon you if you don’t do as I say mentality. If the clergy says he/she cannot perform the ceremony then respect their opinion and peacefully go to another church. But going to church’s union ceremonies, everyone knows that homosexuality goes against most if not all religions that I know of, so peacefully request, but go in peace if denied and respect others as they want to be respected.

          This does not happen and for that, the homosexual agenda makes everything public therefore making it all of our business. If they went on about their life with their significant other, leave us alone and we will leave you alone. But the homosexuals won’t go on about their business and leave every one else alone. They are attacking someone or some business or some organization every week it seems these days.

          The more they interfere and demand other change and adapt to their lifestyle by force not by choice, the more disdain people are getting for them. If they displayed that they are a respectful and peaceful people, they would likely get a lot more approval than what they are getting now. Respect and acceptance is not earned nor given through force and fear mongering of retribution if you don’t support their life choices.

          • Bob666

            Yo Wild,
            “The Homosexual agenda has been on every front trying to “force” everyone to think and believe and accept and support their lifestyle”.

            this obviously causes you some problems, more so that the average person.

      • R. Fine

        In what way have I lied? I don’t know about a gay gene or a straight one. I do know that some people are born to be straight and some are born to be gay. You see it right from early, early childhood and we hear directly from people. And if people are not born in a particular sexual mold then that must mean that they “learn” their sexuality. If that’s the case then we must assume that Vice President Cheney taught his daughter to be a lesbian and that Republican anti gay advocate Senator Portman somehow taught his son to be a homosexual. Not likely right? People are simply born programmed a certain way which for them is natural and you can either accept that or reject it.

        • Bob666

          [comment has been removed]

      • Kevin

        Wildfire…….. Then by all means attack their political agenda if you disagree with it. Ive no argument with you there. it is your right to do so. I also think that some in the Gay community Take their position to the extreme and Infringe on the rights of the straight community. but no more than any of the other politically extreme groups. where I take Issue is when People use their Religious Beliefs to try to condescend to another from some High Moral position. We still have the right to Believe whatever we wish. or not Believe. That was the only point I was making.

      • Kevin

        Top Ten Signs You’re a Fundamentalist Christian

        10 – You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

        9 – You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

        8 – You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

        7 – Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in “Exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” including women, children, and trees!

        6 – You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

        5 – You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

        4 – You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs — though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant” and “loving.”

        3 – While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues” may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.

        2 – You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

        1 – You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history – but still call yourself a Christian.

      • WILDFIRE

        Henry S. Randall, who interviewed Jefferson’s family members for his three-volume Life of Thomas Jefferson, claimed that Jefferson “attended church with as much regularity as most of the members of the congregation – sometimes going alone on horseback, when his family remained at home.”

        1802 January 1. (Jefferson to the Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut). “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”

        1803 April 21. (Jefferson to Benjamin Rush). “To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed any other.”

        Though Bob666 would like to think Jefferson was athiest, There is over -whelming evidence that Jefferson did believe in Christianity. Yet not entirely in the sense in which Christianity has been rewritten and misinterpretated over the years. He believed in Jesus and that Jesus did exist but didn’t believe in his divinity. He believes in a supreme being but does not follow the corruptions by which humans over the years have managed to rewrite and change and manipulate the religion into being something its wasn’t from the beginning.

      • WILDFIRE

        Bob666 says: “Jefferson made a lot of quotes that questioned the concept of Christ and he was very much intrigued with science which is often in conflict with the bible even to this day.

        I believe that Jefferson went through stages in his life as most people do and questioned the bible as many people often do when confronted with the facts that science presents.”

        I agree with you on this concept as I like many others have gone through various stages questioning religions truths and deceptions and that science contradicts what religions teach. Though I am not what one might be defined as a “Bible thumper” I do believe in god as the one and only true god. For me, how I come to that conclusion is somewhat hard to explain as it has been personal experiences of certain overwhelming feeling that is hard for me to put into words other than a feeling of warmth and peace. Much like (but different) a feeling one gets when they have lost a true love in their life to the point that their heat aches and feels broken and they cannot breathe. Its something you just know.

        However, it is questioned from time to time, such as I have questioned when I lost my twin babies with the help of a liberal judge allowing my 17 month old babies to leave the Country with a illegal immigrant for what was supposed to be a 4 weeks vacation and I have not seen nor talked to or know where they are now for 6 years, they have disappeared from the face of the earth and a Judge assisted with it and wipes her hands clean of it by saying well, they are out of my jurisdiction. Yes they are out of your jurisdiction because you gave them a first class ticket out of your jurisdiction. I’ve spent the last 6 years looking for them with no results.

        Now as far as science goes ,well it is always evolving which will always be changing our understanding of life and our existence. It wasn’t but a few hundred years ago that it was thought that the world was flat as science told them so. As scientist were sure that we are the only universe and solar system that exist because we was unable to see beyond our universe, now we have found there are thousands of planets and universes. Same as we up until recently we thought that the atom was the smallest particle in the universe by which we now can see and verify to the contrary there are much smaller particles.

        So science is constantly changing and theories are constantly confirmed or dismissed and new theories come forth from the new findings. For me, there is no scientific conclusion yet that has supported factual evidence without the benefit of doubt that no god or supreme creator exists. Such things as complex as the universe and this planet and the life upon it didn’t just happen, it was planned. engineered and designed and created by a supreme being. As anything on this earth that is man made. It didn’t just appear, it was planned and executed. All this has just magically happened from the “Big Bang” theory and all the complexities of life just magically started and all ended up on one planet and the rest of the planets are dead and nothing but various metals and minerals. Nah, everything on this planet was engineered to be the way it is except for mind of man. I think perhaps the engineer dropped the ball though and didn’t contemplate a contingency plan for the birth of the liberal by which tries their best to destroy what he has created.

        Man as we know it and the planet earth is like a atom is to a beach ball in regards to other planets we now know about. The thought that there is no other type of beings in existence anywhere to me is ridiculous. That fact is, we just don’t have the technology or the intelligence developed to know or see past our neighborhood. Perhaps once we develop a way to travel at the speed of light or faster and explore the possibilities of the theories of bending spacetime and perhaps entering other dimensions in which our humanly bodies do not possess the ability to do or see but have been proven to exist, maybe then we will have more accurate answers to the questions and less assumptions and theories.

        • Bob666

          Yo Wild,

          “Nah, everything on this planet was engineered to be the way it is except for mind of man. I think perhaps the engineer dropped the ball though and didn’t contemplate a contingency plan for the birth of the liberal by which tries their best to destroy what he has created’.

          You see, there are points where we might agree.

          • WILDFIRE

            Yo Wild, “Nah, everything on this planet was engineered to be the way it is except for mind of man. I think perhaps the engineer dropped the ball though and didn’t contemplate a contingency plan for the birth of the liberal by which tries their best to destroy what he has created’.

            Bob Says: You see, there are points where we might agree.

            I think in the end, everyone can agree on the basic principle that each and everyone of us just want to be happy and free to do what we want when we want as long as my actions don’t interfere or cause you harm and your actions don’t cause me harm or interference. The problem comes when there are people who think that their way is the only way and their is no other way to achieve the same goal. Some examples can be seen on these blogs in regards to religions as you had stated before. You don’t have to have a love for one specific god to be a patriot. You do however have to have a love and allegiance to that Country. If a person love or allegiance is for another Country, then they are not going to necessarily give 100% to defend and protect that Country.

          • Bob666

            Yo Wild,
            “You don’t have to have a love for one specific god to be a patriot. You do however have to have a love and allegiance to that Country. If a person love or allegiance is for another Country, then they are not going to necessarily give 100% to defend and protect that Country”.

            100% in agreement.

      • WILDFIRE

        @Bob666 – I’m curious, so I’ll ask as you seem to be well versed on subject such as religions more than the average person, though it appears you have tendencies to try to manipulate and twist various meanings. That aside, you give the illusion that you are an atheist, so why do you spend so much time learning and studying something you apparently completely detest and are appalled by the thought that anyone else believes in something you do not.

        Is it because you find enjoyment in controversy? Or do you find some sort of comfort in challenging others to afford you the ability to belittle and embarrass others to raise your self confidence. Your comments don’t always seem to have the sole intent to educate others who might not have explored the subjects you have, and displays the tendncies more often than not to ridicule and berate others rather than to educate and or advance their knowledge and understanding of subject.

        I ask in curiosity because something that seems to be a miserable and repulsive subject such as religions and gods to you, I wonder why you ponder the subject so much and invest so much time on things that you seem repulsed by rather than exploring things that bring you self satisfaction and happiness?

        Just a personal observation and curiosity to understand why people do the things they do and the purpose, not an attack just looking for a better understanding.

      • Kevin

        (((Wildfire))))
        While I cannot answer for Bob I can speak for myself when I say to you that, The reason you get Rebuffed and in some cases ridiculed (which I do not condone) Is because People such as yourself (Christians) consistently bring their religion into the fray when debating or discussing subjects other than Religion. I am not sure if this is conscious or unconscious but I will contend that this is not an equitable beginning point for any discussion between two people of differing beliefs on the existence of a Deity.
        I have made the statement before and will make it again here that “the use of scripture or the ones religious beliefs to substantiate/ support a position on subjects of a political nature are not Proof”
        The reason for my position on this is simple….
        Depending upon your Interpretation of the Bible a person can argue almost anything on any subject.
        Take a look around at religion as a whole. Christianity varies to such an extent that a person would be hard pressed to keep up with the Mutations.
        Do not take what I am saying as an assault upon you personally please. I have no Ill will toward you. I even find merit to some of what you share. I too have searched for what is real….. is there a God…… why am I here? these are questions any rational man should ask. In fact it is your birth right to ask them. but do not try to press upon others the conclusions that you yourself are still questioning in an effort to substantiate them or to make yourself more comfortable with your findings.
        If you want or wish to have a discussion about God or Religion then I suspect that there are numerous places on the Internet to do so. or if Mr Livingston wishes to broach the subject of State and Religion then this opens the Pandora’s Box at it were for a discussion of ones personal religious beliefs.
        I will also say that I do not agree/condone some of the behavior I have seen here being directed toward well Intentioned Christians. I Think that a person should be able to articulate his or her disagreement without resorting to Ugly and puerile language.
        I will admit to loosing my composure at times and I am attempting to correct this in my own comments.
        With Respect K.T.

        • WILDFIRE

          Kevin Says: (((Wildfire))))
          “While I cannot answer for Bob I can speak for myself when I say to you that, The reason you get Rebuffed and in some cases ridiculed (which I do not condone) Is because People such as yourself (Christians) consistently bring their religion into the fray when debating or discussing subjects other than Religion.”

          I don’t know where you got me bringing my religion into the fray. I didn’t make references to religion until after spending 2 or 3 days watching others bicker over religion and then misquote or edit quotes to try to twist or manipulate their meanings to make a false point.

          “I am not sure if this is conscious or unconscious but I will contend that this is not an equitable beginning point for any discussion between two people of differing beliefs on the existence of a Deity.”

          I agree with you, as I pointed out to Bob, I tend to keep my religious beliefs to myself and can care a less what religious belief any one else is as long as they respect me and my opinion, then I will afford them the same respect in return but if they attack me, then I will return fire “so to speak” Now if I was the “Bible thumper” I suppose I could put in a few quotes from the bible at this juncture. I could be the type to turn the other cheek and let them smack the other cheek, but i tend to be the “eye for and eye” type person. I think many people refer to religious scripture or quotes to try to reassure more so them self that they are somehow more righteous than the person they are commenting too. Or if they add a quote it some how confirms that their statement is valid and true above all others.

          “The reason for my position on this is simple….
          Depending upon your Interpretation of the Bible a person can argue almost anything on any subject.”

          I agree 100% People have been arguing their interpretation of the Bible since its inception. For every scripture used to disapprove of an action, there is another scripture somewhere in the Bible to justify the action.

          “Take a look around at religion as a whole. Christianity varies to such an extent that a person would be hard pressed to keep up with the Mutations.
          Do not take what I am saying as an assault upon you personally please. I have no Ill will toward you. I even find merit to some of what you share. I too have searched for what is real….. is there a God…… why am I here? these are questions any rational man should ask. In fact it is your birth right to ask them. but do not try to press upon others the conclusions that you yourself are still questioning in an effort to substantiate them or to make yourself more comfortable with your findings.”

          I also agree with this Statement, except for you using the word “You” meaning me personally, as if I have been trying to some way force my religion or opinions on others. I give my opinion, but don’t demand or expect anyone to view the subject the same as I do. I usually add words such as “In my opinion” or things like that. Maybe you got me confused with some of the others on here posting specific scriptures and such from the Bible ,or perhaps I’m misinterpreting your use of the word “You” meaning me specifically. If I have given that illusion, it was not my intent, as I am not a journalist and I may not always use the correct words to explain myself clear enough and perhaps assume that others know what I mean.

          “If you want or wish to have a discussion about God or Religion then I suspect that there are numerous places on the Internet to do so. or if Mr Livingston wishes to broach the subject of State and Religion then this opens the Pandora’s Box at it were for a discussion of ones personal religious beliefs.”

          I think you are under the impression that I’m a bible thumper or buff, are you sure your message was intended for me, because you keep referring to religion as if I have referred all my comments with religion in its contents. I have seen 4-5 different blogs where several people have been bickering over religion and somewhat trying what seems to be a competition to see who knows more about religion or trying to out do each others competencies of the bible. I don’t get into that mess. Where I got into the conversation was when Jefferson was being quoted. I think Omanuel, and samuri, perhaps Right Wing thinker and bob and a few others were bickering back and forth, but they can defend them self if they so choose. I got into it when I seen Jefferson being some what misquoted or not misquoted but his quotes being used in a way that give a false illusion of what is documented in history.

          “I will also say that I do not agree/condone some of the behavior I have seen here being directed toward well Intentioned Christians. I Think that a person should be able to articulate his or her disagreement without resorting to Ugly and puerile language.
          I will admit to loosing my composure at times and I am attempting to correct this in my own comments.
          With Respect K.T.”

          Kevin, I think we all from time to time get pushed to a breaking point or a nerve get struck. however, there are certain people that come on here to purposely try to instigate arguments because they find enjoyment and pleasure in others misery. my guess is these type people are miserable in their own life and they search enjoyment in bringing everyone else down into their misery by trying to belittle them berate them, perhaps in an attempt to make them self feel more adequate. My first love, Had a father like that. He would do things like go into his bedroom and read something out of the guiness book of world records and then come into the kitchen where we was playing cards or something and ask us “if we know how big the biggest watermelon is?”
          everybody would play his game and perhaps join in and take a guess. Of course everyone is wrong. Then he would tell us what the correct answer is and then say, “I bet you didn’t know that did you”. I would think to myself, the question he should be asking is do we even care… But i think that was his way to reinforce his self esteem to think that he was smarter than anyone else in the room because he knew something we didn’t.

          Anyway, I appreciate your message and have a good weekend.

          • Kevin

            After re-reading your previous Posts I see that you are Right My apologies. I must have lumped you in with Samurai. If I have understood you correctly that you believe all homosexuality is learned behavior. I must disagree with you sir. Sexual orientation in my opinion is Biological for the most part and cultural to a smaller extent.
            I will not search out and cut and past other opinions here because their are no real proofs to my knowledge on this subject. everything I have read seems Biased in one way or another depending upon the writer. Homosexuality is one of the MOST polarized subjects on the planet for various reasons. not the least of which is Religions moral edict against such activity. I assume from your comments that you are not Gay? well neither am I so I have no first hand personal insight on the subject. People will for various reasons argue about Homosexuality till Kingdom come. but the fact remains that Homosexuals have been among us since the beginning. Ask yourself why? now try with honest intent to determine if your answers are objective.
            With Respect K.T.

          • WILDFIRE

            Morning – your right, it is a subject that can be debated to no end. for me, No I’m not gay however, the way the judicial system is these days. It might not be such a bad idea to be gay the way the Courts do their best to try to drive guys into bankruptcy. (joking)

            Serious note – For me, I know a few gays and have encountered lots of gays over seas. In Thailand, there are 6 girls to 1 male. nearly 1/3 of the female population in Thailand are lady boys (Transgender). The main reason they claim that they have changed their gender is mostly to get a farang (foreigner) to marry them for a better life as for the ones I have spoken too. The few gays I know here, I are more like acquaintenances by which we basically speak just in passing. One gay guy that is friends with my wife and her friends when around other men he speaks and acts more manly but when it is just the girls, he acts like a woman around them so they tell me. I have a female friend that is a lesbian I’ve known for over 35 years since she was 14. She had a rough upbringing and she was also raped repeatedly by an uncle for several yeras and 3 times by her mothers boyfriend starting around the time she was 10 yrs old. She says she cannot trust men and the thought or the sight of a naked man brings back bad memories for her which she claims is what has caused her to become lesbian. Though she has told me many times she wishes she was normal and wants to have a normal relationship with a man, but cannot deal with having sexual relations with a man in short.

            For me, other determining factors that develop my opinion on Homosexual tendencies is the fact that if it was intended to be normal and natural as they try to claim it to be, then we would all be unisex and either person could decide who is going to carry the baby this time and next time the other carries the baby type deal. The fact that there are 2 seperate genders which each have specific independent rolls in the procreation process. The penis is not designed for backdoor insertions and the anus and colon is not designed to be a sex organ. It is or has become a sexual tool through the justification of man. Someone said that even some animals are gay. I got a chuckle out of that. True I’ve seen some animals were it appeared they were confused but were quickly corrected usually with a swift kick to the head or a “head butt” to clear up any confusion the animal might have temporarily suffered.

            In short, on a evolutionary thought, If homosexuality was normal and nature then everything would have the potential to become extinct. Imagine if 50% or more of the population was gay or was to become gay. the human species would become extinct in rather short order. If the diseases associated with it such as HIV didn’t get you then something else will if not natural causes. Speaking of HIV, There has been STD’s around for some time but the killer STD’s didn’t start becoming a serious threat for us until the 70′s. I believe ther was a few rare cases recorded from as back as the early 60′s but through the “if it feels good, do it 70′s” is when an increasing number of cases started showing up.

            anyway, for me in my opinion the points are why I don’t agree that it is a normal or natural intention. everything has a specific purpose and reason for its existence. Humans think up other uses for things that are not intended to be mating. Same as people who have the desire to mate with aminals and consider that a normal and natural impulse. I’m waiting for them to come out into the lime light and start demanding to be recognized and have rights to marry their significant other mate as they too are entitled to have love in their life will likely be their argument.

            As you said, some can justify it, others cannot. Some will disagree with me, but that is what makes the world go around, there are all kinds of points of views for various different reasons. I really cannot see it any other way, because from the homosexuals I know, it is a choice and not a genetic thing. It is a choice they them self had made. So I cannot agree with the opposition, not on moral basis, evolutionary basis, science or biology basis. That is just the way it is, However I don’t care what others choose to do or be in their sexuality as long as you don’t make advances upon me or force me or my family to have to change our principles or morals or values to accommodate their lifestyle. I don’t force my heterosexual lifestyle on anyone and so the same respect should be visa versa. They would likely be accepted a lot more easily if they just live and let live and stop trying to attack every aspect of every ones life. All they are doing is causing a greater amount of disdain and intolerance for them. when people keep getting pushed, eventually they are going to say enough is enough and they are going to reach their breaking point and open a can of Whoop Butt and start pushing back and the homosexuals are likely to be set back 50 yrs and loose all the ground they have spent fighting for. the need to concentrate on such things as civil unions, not marriage – the institution is and has been since the beginning of time defined as one man and one woman and shouldn’t be redefined to accommodate some 2 -3%. this is a big issue for heterosexuals. They need to simply make up another term such as civil union that bears the same or similar rights as does marriages giving them the rights they claim they are denied but not to force individuals or organizations to go against their conscience to accommodate them, such churches uniting them by which goes against the church, have a magistrate perform the union. Or these law suits against these family business that are christian based family business that have been attacked for declining to partake in their marriages because its against their belief. They want equality and respect and not to be discriminated upon, yet they have no problem disrespecting others consciences and belief which is blatant lack of equal respect.

            Anyway, have a good Sunday sir

      • WILDFIRE

        Hey Bob – As we was speaking about how its annoying about when people are constantly shoving their Religious belief down your throat and their lifestyle as a christian or non Christian or muslim is the only way to be. I got the following in a email. I was having a debate about Homosexuality with a few others that had rang in on the issue, not sure if you was in on that topic or not. But this is an example of what we was talking about how other are always shoving their belief or lifestyles down the throats of others rather than the live and let live mentality. These homosexuals apparently now are trying to basically force youth organizations to either accept them into their programs or be penalized. Basically blackmail or form of coercion. It is no different than saying, “Hey accept my religion of be penalized” and if you don’t accept me or my lifestyle then no one can be apart of this or that organization. These Homosexuals have been attacking youth groups on every level and if the organizations don’t accommodate them or change their policy and principles in which they were founded on then no child will be able to partake in the group because we will try to penalize the organization and make them pay taxes which will cause the costs of the organizations to go up maybe even to the point that some of the kids parents won’t be able to afford to continue to have their kids in the programs such as Boy Scouts or 4H and so on. These homosexuals will attack and try to do what ever they can to deprive American children of these extra learning opportunities. Rather than starting their own organization and build it the way they want to operate it, they want everyone else to adjust and change to accommodate them. This kind of behavior or mentality is what infuriates people because they are seeking acceptance through force not peace. It would be like me going to a foreign Country that speaks mandarin and I demand that they accommodate me and speak english, rather than me adapting to their lifestyle and way of life, I demand that the 98% of them adapt to my way of life. This Country no longer is operated as majority rules because we have spent the last several decades bending over backwards to accommodate the minority or special interest groups.

        “Dear Robert,

        The radical Homosexual Lobby will not stop!

        Once again they are attacking the Boy Scouts of America in an attempt to force the scouts to abide by their radical agenda.

        Radical politicians in California are proposing legislation (SB 323) that deliberately tramples on individual and organizational religious beliefs. SB 323 will strip the tax-exempt status from pro-Family youth organizations unless they renounce their pro-Family policies and embrace radical homosexual values.

        Radical homosexual activist and Executive Director of Equality California, John O’Connor, made it clear that this bill is about punishing the Boy Scouts for rejecting the Homosexual Agenda.You see, the Boy Scouts are a nonprofit organization dedicated to raising boys into men while teaching them their “duty to God and my country” and keep them “physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.”

        And because the Boy Scouts have upheld their pro-Family policy and embraced traditional values, they have been cruelly targeted by the Homosexual Lobby for years.
        But this bill attacks more than just the Boy Scouts, This proposed legislation would force ALL youth oriented organizations to incorporate the Homosexual Agenda or else pay the price.

        This list includes Little League, Future Farmers of America, Special Olympics, 4-H Clubs, YMCA, youth sports and many more.You see,the Homosexual Lobby wants to hold these organizations financially hostage. If passed, this bill would make youth-serving organizations get rid of all existing pro-Family and pro-Christian policies or lose their tax-exempt status — forcing nonprofit groups to pay excessive taxes!

        The Homosexual Lobby will not rest until everyone is forced to share in their perverted agenda.”

        I used to not care a bit about homosexuals as to what they do as long as they keep to them self and they don’t force their lifestyle upon me or my children. Like most people hold that same opinion, what they do with their life is their business, but they keep putting their business into our life. They are like knats flying around at the family picnic, no matter where you go to avoid them, their they are, you swat at them and they disperse only to return and hover over your food and hinder your happiness to peacefully enjoy yourself.

    • Charlie

      R. Fine,,,Heathen,,,
      All the answers OR how to get the answers to any question that may come up on God’s Earth, are right there in God’s Manual ,,,BUT,,,your Edomite Mind is so full of lies from your Anti-Christ Lineage that you reject most Scriptures as just being more lies… One can only prove out “”Truth”"with “”Truth”",,,find the equation for “”Truth”" at Psalm 119:160…
      Meanwhile… Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

      Charlie Freedom

      • R.F.

        Charlie: Perhaps you would care to comment on the actual topic rather than dragging out your religious (and boring) comments. Also, there is no need here for you to use name calling just because you have a different idea than someone else. Please try to be civil. Thank you so much.

      • Kevin

        I see so many religionists rant and rave about how Atheists are “not tolerant of believers and have no respect for their faith”. To non believers this claim is absurd. For intolerance of various religions is the foundation of Judaism, Christianity, Muslim and many other orthodox communities. Matter of fact, the Bible and Pentateuch commands religious intolerance in MANY verses, even to the point of KILLING people for their beliefs. Here then, are a few choice verses that show just how intolerant these religionists are of other believers and nonbelievers. We shall start with the two verses that helped to inflict one of the biggest mass murders in history, the Inquisition.

        Woman with “familiar spirits” must be stoned to death. Leviticus 20:27

        “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.” Exodus 22:18

        Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

        You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

        Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

        Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

        Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

        Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

        Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

        Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

        Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

        Ignorance is bliss. Christians should not practice free inquiry nor socialize with non Christians:

        Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

        Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17

        Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8

        Judge other religions for not following Christ:

        Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

        Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

        The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7

        Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12

        False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9

        Here are my two personal favorites:

        Everyone will have to worship Jesus — whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10

        A Christian can not be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33

      • Charlie

        Kevin,,,
        The Council of King Jesus Christ must be sought AND looked at ,,,BEFORE,,,any “”Judgment”"”is carried out… See “Perfect” Law case with King Jesus as Judge at John 8:1–11….Meanwhile… Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation
        because Peter said so at 1 Peter 3:21…………………………………………..

        Charlie Freedom

        • robbiefine@hotmail.com

          Carlie: You don’t seem to be listening nor learning anything from those of us with whom you have been conversing. You merely repeat the same tired religious silliness again and again. It’s time you grew up.

      • Charlie

        R. fine,,,
        Has The Bible changed??? It’s The Book We use to judge you by… BUT,,, since you don’t know much “”Truth”",,you think truth is lies… How many “”Curses” are you under “”"According”"” to The Bible???

        • robbiefine@hotmail.com

          Charlie: I see that to any posting you basically respond in the same way – you dis people and quote certain Bible passages as if you know something about that book. As to the many curses you think I am living under I can assure you that at over 60 years of age I am living a totally charmed life with family and friends. I travel all summer every year and have been all over the world. I have many former students who I have kept up with for decades. I live in a 3,000 s.f. loft with a 1,500 s.f private terrace overlooking my amazing city. No evidence of any curse. (There’s actually no such thing as curses anyway but that’s another matter). You, basically, are nuts.

          • Bob666

            Yo Robbie,
            Regarding Charlie,
            “You, basically, are nuts.”
            I believe you nailed it.

      • Kevin
      • Charlie

        R. Fine,,,et al,,,Heathens,,,
        So I,m nuts? can you prove that with The Holy Bible??? Hanhan hahanhaha ……………………………..

        • robbiefine@hotmail.com

          Charlie: Here you are actually responding to yourself. Maybe that’s the proof you need that you’re nuts. But seriously the proof that you’re nuts is that you accept as truth stories in the Bible that are pure fantasy.

      • Kevin
      • Charlie

        R. Fine,,,yo-yo Bob666,,,Kevin,,,and ALL other numb skulls…
        Which is smarter? a fool that thinks he/she is smarter than God??? OR a “”nut”"”???
        Meanwhile… Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • robbiefine@hotmail.com

          I have searched god’s manual and I still can not figure out how several hundreds of thousands of animals requiring millions of pounds of food could all fit on a small boat. I was hoping you’d enlighten us but you seem unable to tell us. You claim to know god’s manual so how come its impossible for you to give us an answer? Mind you there were a number of things in the Bible you knew nothing about!

        • Bob666

          Yo Yo Charlie,
          “R. Fine,,,yo-yo Bob666,,,Kevin,,,and ALL other numb skulls…
          Which is smarter? a fool that thinks he/she is smarter than God??? OR a “”nut”””???”

          That one is easy-God is smarter than all of us and based on your post, most are smarter than you.

        • Kevin
    • http://stophatingamericantea2012.wordpress.com texasnation

      I haven’t heard about homosexuality being a punishment but that HIV is a punishment for having homosexual activity. Homosexuality is the sin itself. Born that way or not, it is the temptation of sinning just like premarital straight sex is a temptation of sin until you go foward with the act then the sin has been committed. I do believe that many people are born as homosexuals. I believe it to be a genetic defect just like any other abnormality we see at birth, such as Downs Syndrome, Autism etc.. But there are also many who do because they want to be with the in crowd or want to buck their parents, there’s no excuse for these people, they are thumbing their nose at God. As far as those born this way, it can lead to a life of confusion and misery if they don’t chose one side, hopefully straight, they can apply their will and ask God for his help in overcoming the burden. This is hard but it can be done. If they give in to the sin, it too will lead to a life of pain due to guilt, not ever being an actual mother or father and rejection by family and society..

      Another thing, there aren ‘t any Animals except humans that are homosexual. This is a ridiculous lie perpetuated by the gay lobby to make it normal when it’s not. Sex was designed by nature or God, where ever your beliefs fall, for reproduction purposes ONLY. Without this being this way species would die out quickly. Humans are the only Animals that find sex pleasurable. Birds and things do it instinctively for procreation, humans do it for having babies and for recreation. If sex wasn’t fun we would never do it and we’d be gone fast. As far as other Animals, sometimes they get confused, or make mistakes, sometime they might enjoy being with the same sex but not for sex, once they try a few times they find their mistake. The penguins said to be gay because two males nested together and even practiced having sex. But once the breeding season came around they found themselves in the nests of horney females. Once the deal was finished and little Junior broke out, the Males moved back in with each other so they could be pigs and watch football all weekend. Maybe the penguins are smart. It would be cool it we went to the wifes place for sex and then lived with dudes who had no soft feelings, talked hunting and fishing and watched football 24/7. Not a bad deal.

      • Kevin
      • robbiefine@hotmail.com

        Gee, so sex is “for reproductive purposes ONLY”. Wow. First of all I’m sure glad I’m not you. Second of all if homosexual sex is a sin because you don’t end up with a baby I guess all straight folks who engage in oral sex are sinners too because no one ever got pregnant through the mouth!!!! You do know about oral sex don’t you? OMG maybe you don’t. Wow again. Double glad I’m not you.

      • WILDFIRE

        @texasnation – I would have to question your allegations that people are born homosexuals like people are born with down syndrome and so on. Down syndrome and autism is not a choice. Saying that some people are born with sexual aspirations of being a homosexual are already determined is like saying some people are born pedophiles and some people are born to be criminals or murderers or alcoholics or drug addicts or even a smoker.

        All of those above mentioned are choices that people make throughout their life. Temptations might be there as various difference things occur in a person life that draws them or drives them to reach those choices, but none the less they are choices unlike your examples of Down syndrome, autism or blindness or deafness and so on, they are not choices.

  • http://justshutupandseemyside.wordpress.com timmy149

    I hate these race-baiters at the $PLC who think people who stand up for the Constitution are terrorists. I agree with you that they are fascists.
    The ‘racist’ smear isn’t only used against Libertarians by the left, unfortunately. I’ve seen parts of the right (including definitely the GOP establishment, do they even count as the ‘right’?) use the vile race card against Ron Paul and Libertarians. As much as the left racially demagogues them, they should know better!
    Libertarians are no more ‘white power’ than the rest of the right, and in fact at least two of the 14 members of Ron Paul’s Libertarian Caucus in the House including it’s new chairman are minorities. Standing up for individual rights is the opposite of racial collectivism, and the attacks on all who care about small government as racist is stupid.

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