Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty
 

The Oslo discord

July 28, 2011 by  

The Oslo discord

When a lunatic named Jared Lee Loughner killed six people and injured 13 more last January, liberal accusations of conservative complicity in the assault emerged faster than the sedatives could slow Loughner from “wild-eyed mass-murderer” to “Chris Matthews.” As the twisted tale unfolded, it became readily apparent that Loughner was inspired not by Sarah Palin (nor any other conservative), but by the voices in his head. With the revelation that among Loughner’s victims was not only U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), but a staunchly conservative Federal judge named John Roll, who died shielding another victim from Loughner, the coordinated liberal effort to pin the actions of a madman on people who don’t read The New York Times evaporated as quickly as liberals’ feigned concern for Giffords (but not Roll). By the way, Giffords is improving at a nearly miraculous rate. She may never return to Congress, but she returned to her husband, family and friends. I’ll wager that being discarded by the Democrats the moment she stopped being an effective political prop is meaningless to Giffords’ loved ones; they’re probably just overjoyed to have her home.

Following the failure of Loughner to provide an effective brickbat with which liberals could defame conservatives, the left went back to its usual litany of hate speech, slander and outright dishonesty. President Barack Obama and his racist minion, Attorney General Eric Holder, weathered a few storms of their own creation. Narcoterrorists from Mexico to Honduras obtained guns from the U.S. through an almost impossibly ill-conceived program called “Operation Fast and Furious.” While the cost of the program reached tens — if not hundreds — of millions of dollars, the human cost was even higher. Fortunately, Obama and Holder had the corporate media to bury the story; and with corporate media outlets ignoring the carnage, the liberal rank-and-file missed it through either ignorance or obscene partisanship. Liberals are perfectly willing to shriek at the top of their lungs about terrorism that they can claim is inspired by conservative women or talk radio, but terrorists who were literally armed by a Democrat President are evidently less useful in a campaign than — say — throwing grandma off a cliff.

And then, last Friday afternoon, the monotonous buzz of liberal mendacity, gender bias and racism was shattered by the roar of a terrorist attack in Oslo, Norway. Once it became apparent that the perpetrator was not striking a blow for Muhammad — despite The New York Times’ latest bout with erroneous reporting (“Helpers of the Global Jihad?” What is that, the Hamas junior varsity?) — I started counting the moments until someone tried to link the actions of some fruitcake in the land of the midnight sun to the Tea Party.

As expected, the wait was shorter than Jayson Blair’s post-scandal career. Knowing that the corporate media’s big outlets would need a few moments to figure out the best way to spin the tragedy to some twisted advantage, I took an off-ramp from the Information Superhighway to the seedy part of town: the Democrat-friendly hate speech site Dailykos.com. As expected, the cacophony was full-throated in the maximum-security wing of the liberal movement. But the wing nuts were trying an interesting new tack; they were actually accusing American conservatives of being more terrifying than the alleged Oslo shooter, Anders Behring Breivik. According to the lead tinfoil hat brigadier Markos Moulitsas:

…in the United States, (the Tea Party) movement is indeed fundamentalist Christian, populated by sects of millions that would seem strange to an Europeanist of the sort Breivik is. Those people are the actual mirror image of Al Qaeda, or more correctly the Taliban, and they don’t need to go around putting car bombs and driving planes into buildings because they have the US Armed Forces do that for them.

A comment like that (which apparently has been removed from the website) is made doubly interesting given the fact that Moulitsas is on record excusing Islamofascist murder of Americans. I’m half surprised he didn’t retroactively blame the Tea Party for the 2004 Fallujah incident he infamously celebrated. And not that I’m going to be a stickler for accuracy from the bottom of the blogosphere barrel, but when did the “US Armed Forces” start driving planes into buildings? Something tells me ol’ Kos might want to avoid Fort Stewart forever.

Meanwhile, my favorite verse from the Tea-Party-did-it chorus turned up in the least likely of places: www.personalliberty.com. Buried in the comments section attached to our latest “Great Eight” was this beyond-tangential nugget: “BRAVO THE FAR RIGHT WING – YOU JUST KILLED 90 NORWEGIANS, SHOT MOST OF THEM POINT BLANK IN THE HEAD.” No wonder I was so tired on Saturday.

I’m actually fascinated by the ability liberals possess to abandon logic on the altar of their political prejudices. They can accuse Grandpa and Grandma Kettle of Anytown, U.S.A., of being somehow complicit in the Oslo horror because they have a Gadsden flag bumper sticker on the back of their ’99 Grand Marquis, while simultaneously suggesting that the Islamofascists who dress their women like freak show beekeepers and stone people to death are merely misunderstood.

Meanwhile, the sole factor identifying Breivik as “right wing” is his apparent aversion to the spread of Islam. Imagine the logical contortions necessary for liberals to simultaneously claim not only is Islamofascist tyranny like the Taliban “right wing,” but so are the people who most vehemently find it objectionable. To put that in American terms: “Charles Rangel is a scumbag; let’s make him President.”

Look, people. There are different kinds of terrorism. Among them: religiously inspired terrorism, which involves flying planes into buildings (which the Democrat Moulitsas says is a common tactic of the U.S. military), or murdering four people, dismembering them, burning the corpses and hanging them from a bridge (to which the Democrat Moulitsas says: “Screw them.”). There’s governmental terrorism, which involves running people over with tanks, or forcing them to spend 30 years in a Siberian diamond mine in return for suggesting Lenin was a jerk, or shooting their wife and children in Idaho because they didn’t vote for Bill Clinton. There’s narcoterrorism, which lately involved drug dealers shooting people with guns supplied by the Obama Administration. And there’s American terrorism, which involves a Gadsden flag sticker on the bumper of your Grand Marquis — at least that’s what Mr. Soros says.

Despite the best efforts of the Democrats to smear conservatives with the tar brush of terrorism, the Tea Party has yet to bomb a single government office, shoot a single person or fly a single plane into a single building. In fact, the most the Tea Party has deployed is the occasional strong condemnation; it’s not as if the Tea Party is the Service Employees International Union or anything. And the tendency of liberalism’s leading lights to suggest the alternative is either true or is simply a “matter of time” isn’t just defamatory, it’s — well — rude.

The very same New York Times which erroneously issued the initial report that the Oslo attacks were the work of Islamofascists got back in line with the rest of the liberal stormtroopers breathlessly assigning American bloggers like Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer complicity in Breivik’s actions. As Geller pointed out, this is paper-thin logic on a par with suggesting the Beatles were responsible for Charles Manson’s murder spree. To shine a current light on it: It’s akin to suggesting the Quran is responsible for… hmm.

Let’s be honest with each other for a moment. Anders Breivik is a Norwegian Tim McVeigh, not a Norwegian Osama bin Laden. Putting aside liberal mendacity, his actions don’t relate to the political ideology of anyone but the perpetrator. Breivik’s brand of terror is spooky-loners type stuff. It’s obviously devastating, but it’s terror with a finite growth curve, a career path with no long-term prospects. It’s sad, tragic and painful for the victims and those who seek a more peaceful world. While Breivik may identify himself as a “Christian,” even the bats in Fred Phelps’ Westboro belfry aren’t blowing up buildings and shooting kids (although someone should keep an eye on Fred and his flock).

What’s worth noting in the wake of the Oslo attacks is an apparently visceral need for liberals to link Breivik to their fellow citizens. Granted, with Obama on the ropes just eight months after the GOP dropped a hammer on the Democrats in the House of Representatives, the Democrats are understandably desperate. But the implication that American conservatism is any way the birthplace of Anders Breivik borders on schadenfreude.

I recognize the liberal addiction to authority. But 76 people are dead in Norway. Surely, the Democrats in the United States could have waited for the funerals before turning this tragedy into a campaign slogan.

–Ben Crystal

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “The Oslo discord”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • DaveH

    What is it that fascinates Liberals about Radical Islamics?
    Are they just afraid to speak badly of them because Radical Islamics actually are violent (unlike tea partiers)?
    Do they feel kinship with Radical Islamics because their common goal is to send mankind back to prehistoric history?
    Inquiring minds want to know.

    • Joy

      Liberals are facinated by jihadists radicals becasue they secretly would love to do the same thing to Conservatives that radical Islam does to its opponents: shut them up iin the most violet way they can think of. Liberals try to wear a coat of respectability, but it does not fit.

      • Robert Smith

        How many OBGYNs have been killed by “liberals?” Fact: They were killed by right wing religious oppressors.

        Rob

        • Lost in Paradise

          What?

          • FreedomFighter

            Robert dont be a Lucy follower or be decieved by the Lucy lies, think for yourself. No TEA party person I have ever met, or right winger thinks murder an OK method for political change.

            on the other hand the Sinistra or Left:

            “The end justifies the means.” is a Lucy motto.

            Right — dont kill your unborn children
            Left — kill your unborn children if you want.

            Right — No totalitarian goverment
            Left — Promotes totalitarian goverment

            Right — equal justice for all
            Left — social justice for whatever is popular

            Right — freedom, liberty, and self determination
            Left — cradle to death goverment control

            Use your mind, look thru the propaganda, see what the true goals of the Lucys are, then fight them. The master the Lucys follow hates mankind, nomatter the propaganda.

            Laus Deo
            Semper Fi

        • Iris

          Find a reliable psychiatrist for yourself. good luck.

        • Joy

          another one off his meds. Why do liberals insist on such a tunnel-vision look at life?

          • Karolyn

            The same might be said for many conservatives. I prefer looking at both sides and really don’t like to pigeonhole whole groups of people.

        • http://libertyalerts Punchy

          They were not OBGYNs they were child murderers. While I do not, nor ever will condone murder in any form. I absolutely despise murder of innocent children at any age.

          • Carol

            And just WHAT does this have to do with the subject of this article?

          • Robert Smith

            Carol… hateful rhetoric from guys like Punchy has inspired the murder of the BORN doctors and those close to them.

            Hate from the right kills.

            Rob

          • Jay

            Hey rob, they let you out while your cage is being cleaned? Bad doggy!

          • Wyrdwolf

            Sorry Punchy, But if you want real freedom then you have to understand that what a decides person decides is what they are responsable for. We could get out of debt right now if they legalize and tax all the recreational drugs. Because right now with the “WAR on DRUGS” it is easier for your 12 year old kid to get “DRUGS” than it is for them to get a beer. That is the street in the real world. Not to mention all the money the D.E.A uses up to stop it. But it is so much better for a 14 year old girl hooked on Crack to be trying to raise a baby in rat infested ghetto? Quality of life is what we should strive for not quantity. Sorry you don’t see it.
            If you want saftey then make yourself safe. Like would you drink the fluid in your car battery? There is no law against it but you should know not to drink it. You can not create a law to give everyone common sense, because it is a survival trait and so much of society is all about book sense.

          • Average Joe

            Carol says:
            July 28, 2011 at 11:46 am
            And just WHAT does this have to do with the subject of this article?

            Nothing….but, it was a rebuttal to someone else’s statement…..believe it or not….rebuttals happen all the time in forums. I believe the person you should be asking your question of…is the person who intially got off target in the discussion and that person would be…….Mr. Icantstayontopic….Robert Smith…and if you say something he can’t refute, he’ll change the subject and misdirect.

        • S.C. Murf

          Your type of mentality is a big part of what is wrong with this country. Go back into your mommy’s basement and make that popping sound please

          up the hill
          airborne

          • Drawer22

            @ S.C. Murf: All the way! (Check cantaloup‽‽)

        • tom mack

          I don’t know bob …how many ?????

        • JeffH

          Hi Robert, how ya been? Can’t say I haven’t missed you at all. Are ya gonna blast the christians today or the “right wing extremist tea baggers”? I’ll be waiting with baited breath…NOT!

          • Robert Smith

            Got any issues you want to speak about or are you just being another reich wing barking dog?

            Rob

          • JeffH

            Naw, just keepin tabs on ya…speaking of barking…

          • Jay

            Hey Jeff, rob is just checking in to make sure know one here is speaking out against; abortion, gay marriage, gay rights, homosexual and pedophile-al sex, gay pride parade, feminism, environmentalism, the UN, George soros, and oh ya, I almost forgot, obama. He and Karolyn are the only one’s on patrol duty today, as far as I can tell.

        • Average Joe

          Robert Smith says:
          July 28, 2011 at 8:09 am
          “How many OBGYNs have been killed by “liberals?” Fact: They were killed by right wing religious oppressors.”

          Actually they were each killed by one lone nutjob….period!
          Amazing how you manage to place the blame on a whole group of people….rather than to place the blame where it truly belongs….the unstable “person” who actually committed the crime.
          Logic illudes you!!!
          Sometimes life requires critical thought… try it sometime….

          • Average Joe

            Pardon Moi, “Eludes you”

          • Robert Smith

            Joe claims: “Actually they were each killed by one lone nutjob….period!”

            Dr. Gunn was murdered in Pensacola, Florida by anti-abortion Christian terrorist Michael F. Griffin. He shot Dr. Gunn in the back three times.

            During his trial, Griffin’s defense attorneys argued that activist John Burt “brainwashed” Griffin and drove him to commit murder.[5] At the time, Burt was the Northwest Florida regional director of the national pro-life group Rescue America.

            Burt was sued in a civil lawsuit that was settled on July 3, 1996, with Gunn’s family taking possession of land adjacent to the Ladies Center that Burt had purchased in 1991 to protest the clinic without violating obstruction laws.

            This can easily be considered that Burt as a religious inspiration for Griffin’s actions. Griffins own lawyer claimed it, and Dr. Gunn’s family was given the property in compensation for the horrific actions perpitrated.

            Yes, there are very straight line connections to the extreme right wing for the killings.

            Rob

          • Average Joe

            “Dr. Gunn was murdered in Pensacola, Florida by anti-abortion Christian terrorist Michael F. Griffin. He shot Dr. Gunn in the back three times.”

            You just proved my point. It does not matter what his attorney “claims” ( that is his job, to come up with some kind of defense for his client in orer to get aquittal or the least sentence possible)…..it only matters that this man (singular) committed the crime…period. Everyone has “excuses” for their actions…but the fact remains…it was “their” actions and theirs alone. You really are kind of dense…aren’t you?

            Try looking past the nose on your face…there is a whole world out there…beyond it.

          • Jay

            robert, you have a severe case of rabies, and its destroying your brain. Your a LUNATIC!!!

          • vicki

            Interesting observation about liberals. If someone is murdered by a person who seems liberal using a gun it is the fault of the gun. If they are murdered by someone who seems to be a conservative using a gun it is the fault of all those “gun toting” conservatives.

        • Elevenarrows

          I dont’ know of any OB/GYNs killed by right wingers. I know that some misguided people have killed men who have murdered innocent babies.

          • Jana

            EXACTLY !

          • http://sandstone gail

            I’m surprised nothing has been said about Dr. Tiller in Kansas. He was sitting in church and a so called “christian” shot him in the back. I’m guessing there are two kinds of “christians”. The kind that kill, love guns, love the rich, and piss on the poor. The other kind fights for the old, the young, the poor. I prefer the latter Christian.

        • Denno

          How many??? Please tell us. And out of these “OBGYN’s”….How many were abortionists and how many babies did THEY kill???? Only left wing baby killers and degenerates can be “martyred” in this country, today. Anyway…I’d still like to have the number of “obgyn’s” killed by those right wing extremists.

        • CJM

          RbtSmity: Those who murder come from every facet of humanity, it has nothing to do with the advocacy of political preferences and the sooner people like you recognize this, we may find more equity in justice. However, it is unlikely that you will ever understand that moral responsibility belongs to the individual. Using political affiliation to “justify” murderous acts in not only stupidity at its best, but unconscionable. Ignorance such as yours is not appreciated.

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          If you mean those quacks that make a living killing innocent children; not enough of them.

      • Kim

        Wouldn’t liberals be somewhat fearful of Islamist extremists since they have very strict and conservative beliefs, i.e. women shouldn’t have freedoms, pre-marital sex is a sin, etc. You would think that those kinds of beliefs would be seen as being more in line with a conservative, not a liberal. So if the extremists take over the US, wouldn’t the liberals be the first ones to lose their heads since they are typically the ones calling for all kinds of social freedoms, that I assume many Muslims would see as very sinful and worthy of death? Just curious…

        • 45caliber

          Ah, but the libs are certain that due to their support now the Islamists will be so happy that they will overlook anything the libs do now or later that conflicts with the Islamic laws. You must always support your “friends” … right? And, with the example of the various minority groups they support, the libs are certain that the Islamists would never ever succeed without them and will certainly need their “guidance” once they become more successful. Besides, among the libs, even the feminists love to tell the women what they can and can’t do …

        • DaveH

          Good points, Kim, except for the “conservative” label.
          Conservatives in this country would be different from Conservatives in other countries. In this country, a true Conservative harkens back to the kind of freedom that was advocated by our founders. True, much of that freedom-talk was lip-service by aspiring rulers, but putting their disingenuous behavior aside, Liberty is definitely something to aspire to. Radical Islam in no way would fit that mold. In fact, that may be what drives Liberals to be Radical Islam apologists, since both parties believe in forcing their way on others through oppressive Big Government.

          • Robert Smith

            Posted: ” a true Conservative harkens back to the kind of freedom that was advocated by our founders.”

            That was Goldwater, a REAL conservative who was pro-choice and who had no problems with gays in the military.

            The NEOConservatives are nothing but a bunch of control freaks out for themselves abusing the term conservative.

            Otherwise they would get out of opposing a woman’s choices, get out of opposing recreational drugs, get out of worrying about gays, and get out of messing with the lives of others.

            Rob

          • Jay

            Its amazing how quickly you go off topic robert. Do you suffer from ADD, or is it your religion of self-serving bigotry that ails you?

          • JeffH

            Jay, that’s the whole idea…

          • DaveH

            Robert,
            You want choices for your Liberal fellows, but you don’t give that same respect to the people who don’t adhere to your choice list. Why is that?
            Perhaps you could explain to me why you advocate the Obama administration who are busily taking away other peoples’ choices and money? I would sure like to know how you rationalize forcing your way on other people?

          • eyeswideopen

            DaveH, in the state of florida, it is the religious right who has taken away a womens choice, not the Obama admin, or the dems. It is the repubs who have run this state since 1996 who put this state in the toilet, it is the repubs who are trying to restrict voting in democratic areas, not the dems, it is the repubs who want the Christian schools to get federal funding, not the dems, it is the repubs who have passed a law allowing our homeowners insurance companies to increase sinkhole coverage by 2000%, while increasing regular plans by 200%. Yes, that is 2000 for sinkhole. Why do we have sinkholes? cause they allow pumping of water from one county to another leaving us with sinkholes, and now we have to pay an extra two thousand percent because they mandate pumping. It is the repubs won’t allow fl doctors to talk to parents about having guns in the house,.and how to make sure the kids are safe, it is the repubs who are trying to stop home care for the elderly, even though it saves tons of money vs a hospital stay, it is repubs who are against gambling to raise revenue even though we already have a state lottery, which is our only source of education funding. It is the repubs who are requiring children who get medicaid benefits to take a drug test, it is the repubs who want to privitize our prison system, even thought our system is cost effective presently. It is the repubs who will take away any individual rights we presently have, that they don’t like and they will use the government to do it!! Hey did you like Bachmann railing against freddie and fanny while getting herself a loan with them? Love how her clinic gets federal funding… Why do all you conservatives think that you can critize others for doing exactly what you yourselves are doing? Hyprocrites one and all! By the way has anyone figured out why Texas didn’t take such a big hit in the housing industry? Yep, they have very strict regulations, put into place after the S&L crisis in 86. They learned and regulated. See Dave, not all regulations are bad like you think.

          • eyeswideopen

            Independent newspaper and their info on our wonderful Rick Scott.http://floridaindependent.com/41240/state-budget-cuts-unnecessarily-harmful

          • Karolyn

            eyes – Since I am in the domestic violence field, I especially noticed how the repubs in Florida recently rejected money from the fed to assist in battling child abuse! (And I’m sure Florida has a high incidence.)

          • independant thinker

            DaveH said… ” a true Conservative harkens back to the kind of freedom that was advocated by our founders.”

            Robert Smith said in response “That was Goldwater, a REAL conservative who was pro-choice and who had no problems with gays in the military.”

            I was not aware that Goldwater was one of the founders thank you so much for enlightening us to that fact robbie.

        • Iva Raggon

          Extremist fundamentalists are taking over the US. They have an astonishing Taliban-like inflexibility in thinking, such absolute faith in their own perfectness that even listening to another opinion is considered sinful, cooperation is deemed even worse. This is the Tea Party and ultra right wing nut jobs like Rep. Joe Walsh.

          They fail to understand that we are all mortal and capable of error. They also refuse to understand that the history of our great country is the history of great patriots with different opinions negotiating in GOOD FAITH. The Constitution that we all love is the product of compromise between great statesmen.

          Listening the the babble of the extreme right in Washing is a lot like listening to extremist mullahs plotting agains the enemy they blindly hate.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Where are all those right wing extremists in Washington,D C? Name them and then prove that they are what you say they are.
            Don’t throw out accusations because you like the sound of your fingers on the keyboard.

          • Bud Tugly

            The Tea Party

      • gorrie

        If Norway allowed the people to carry a firearm this insane person would have been stopped cold after he got off a few shots. Now because of the law forbidding the carrying of hand guns all those people are dean. An armed citizen is a safe Citizen an un-armed person is a slave and in this case a dead slave.

        • DaveH

          Excellent point, Gorrie.
          Governments tend to make helpless victims out of their citizens. That is just one more bit of evidence that most Leaders don’t care about the citizens. They ban arms strictly to provide more safety for themselves.

        • Karolyn

          the police in Norway don’t even carry guns, and they have a very low crime rate.

          • Dale on the left coast

            Used to have . . . . crime rates are rising in all Scandinavian Countries . . . why is that??? Could it have anything to do with the “Outlanders” they keep inporting???

          • Jay

            Crime around the country, Norway, is reportedly decreasing except in Oslo, where it has become the highest in Scandinavia. Reported crimes in Oslo increased 25 percent in 2007 to 90 per 1,000 inhabitants. That is 12 percent higher than St0ckholm’s crime rate and 45 percent higher than Copenhagen’s. New York’s, by comparison, is 22, making Oslo’s rate more than four times higher.

          • Rick

            In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
            ——————————
            In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
            ——————————
            Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
            ——————————

            China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
            ——————————
            Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
            ——————————
            Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
            ——————————
            Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
            —————————–
            Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
            —————————–
            During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
            With guns, we are ‘citizens;’ without them, we are ‘subjects’.
            You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

            Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens
            The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.
            —————————–
            SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN! SWITZERLAND’S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE EACH A RIFLE.
            SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
            IT’S A NO BRAINER! DON’T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

            Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

            Addendum:

            o Russia during Kruschef also backed down on an invasion of the US since everyone was armed. At least his son said so.
            And two other very low crime countries now are Czechoslovakia and Israel, believe it or not! In fact, Israel has one of the lowest rates of gun deaths in the world – despite PA.
            Israel demands that in every group of eight people or less at least one MUST be armed. All you have to do there is go the nearest police station and tell them what kind of gun you want and you get it.
            After Russia pulled out of Chech. crime was rampant. The police finally gave up and offered free guns to anyone who wanted to protect himself. Crime came almost to a standstill there.

          • DaveH

            Karolyn,
            The convicts in prison don’t carry guns either. How’d you like to spend a week with them?
            Different cultures suffer different rates of violence. That’s just a fact of life. But to deprive somebody of the right to self-defense just because the crime rates in their area are low makes you no less an accessory to murder than in the high crime areas.
            Those people murdered by Anders, in my opinion, were as much victims of the Liberals who made them defenseless as they were victims of Anders.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            You don’t hear or read of the crime rates in Europe because the media has had no interest in the everyday crimes that occur around the world. Since murders,rapes, robberies,hijackings,blackmail, etc.,are now so “common” and accepted as normal why bother to make an issue of them.

        • Robert Smith

          goorie says: “If Norway allowed the people to carry a firearm this insane person would have been stopped cold after he got off a few shots.”

          Extremist arguments don’t work. For example, how’s come this didn’t work for Rep. Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona?

          BTW, I have my own permit and do carry, however those who were attacked were first attacked by a bomb and then it was kids, who in my mind normally shouldn’t carry guns who were gathered round by the use of a police univorm on the perp.

          A better example is the Luby’s massacre in 1991, in Killeen, Texas.

          There George Hennard drove his pickup truck into a Luby’s cafeteria and shot 23 people to death while wounding another 20.

          The story there that supports your argument is that during the shooting, Hennard approached Suzanna Hupp and her parents. She had a handgun in her vehicle outside. Her father and mother were killed. Had she been carrying her gun the outcome of that incident may have been much different.

          Rob

          • Average Joe

            “BTW, I have my own permit and do carry, however those who were attacked were first attacked by a bomb and then it was kids, who in my mind normally shouldn’t carry guns who were gathered round by the use of a police univorm on the perp.”

            Are you inferring that there were no adults on the island overseeing these “children”? Or that those adults shouldn’t have provided better security for the event by having firearms?

            “The story there that supports your argument is that during the shooting, Hennard approached Suzanna Hupp and her parents. She had a handgun in her vehicle outside. Her father and mother were killed. Had she been carrying her gun the outcome of that incident may have been much different.”

            Having a hangun does absolutely no good whatsoever….if it isn’t on your person when needed. “May have”…..has no relevance….the only thing relevant is that she didn’t have it and therefore…things did not turn out differently…..”Hang on, don’t shoot anyone yet…I need to go out to the car and get my gun” (which I was too silly to keep on my person at all times for just such an emergency). Guns don’t kill people…people kill people…and guns can’t help to protect you….if you don’t have it on you…it’s just that simple.

          • CJM

            And what makes you so sure of that, Rbt Smith? There are times, particularly in the Luby incident, where having a gun wouldn’t have mattered at all to the perpetrator. If the victim pulled out her gun, she would be just as dead as her parents. Your reasoning is out of whack, believe me.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        it’s because liberals are afraid of them and think that if they appease them they’ll leave them alone. kind of like the sheep sucking up to the wolf. what they don’t understand is that the libs acceptance of drugs, perversion, crime, ect. are the primary reason the rags hate America. Libs would be the first to get the sword if the rags had their way.

    • Raggs

      No… oblama will never stand for his relations of radical muslims being trampled on.

  • adrian

    No relation/connection to right-wing extremists/TeaParty?

    Start reading the manifest the moron has spread around!

    ALL(!) viewpoints and statements, all dogmas as spread around by the TeaPartiers and the like are mentioned and accepted, even defended in that manifest!

    Denying the connection/relation between the TeaParty and the murderer of Oslo is like denying the existence of holocaust/gas-chambers at Auschwitz!

    • TIME

      Adrian,

      And where did your intel come from again?

    • Joy

      Adrian, Adrian, Adrain. How many times doe you have to be told not to pay any attention to that man behind the curtain?

    • Vagabond

      adrian there is no denying the fact that you are BRAIN DEAD and should be taken off life suport,

      • Linda

        adrian, you’re misinformed. His manifest was based on the Uni bomber’s – a leftwing anarchist.

      • Robert Smith

        Taken off lifesupport for speaking out???? Is that the right wing version of a death pannel, Vagabond?

        Rob

        • Dntmkmecmoverther

          You mean like the left did for Terri Schiavo? The ‘right wing’ or as I see them, ‘the ones with a heart AND a brain said let her live, there are those who are willing to take care of her. The ‘left’ or those with only a love of self said, ‘no…we want her dead’. And dead she was by March 31st 2005. You speak of rhetoric, this was a real, live person who was given a death sentence by the left and carried out by the left. Oh, and since 1973, we have killed over 40 million of our unborn; that idea was hatched by the left too. You sure you are hanging out with the right crowd?

          • Karolyn

            Terry Schiavo was better off freed from the prison she was in!

          • lkar

            Oh, I see GOD (Karolyn) is here. Thanks. Can you give the winning numbers for the lottery?

          • 45caliber

            Ikar:

            No, the numbers are reserved for the libs only.

          • Robert Smith

            “You mean like the left did for Terri Schiavo?”

            I know the facts are difficult for some on the right to handle but Terri Schiavo was brain dead. There was NO hope for recovery. At the level she was at there was no self awareness.

            From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case#Final_local_motions.2C_death_and_autopsy

            “Examination of Schiavo’s nervous system by neuropathologist Stephen J. Nelson, M.D., revealed extensive injury. The brain itself weighed only 615 g, only half the weight expected for a female of her age, height, and weight, an effect caused by the loss of a massive amount of neurons. Microscopic examination revealed extensive damage to nearly all brain regions, including the cerebral cortex, the thalami, the basal ganglia, the hippocampus, the cerebellum, and the midbrain. The neuropathologic changes in her brain were precisely of the type seen in patients who enter a PVS following cardiac arrest. Throughout the cerebral cortex, the large pyramidal neurons that comprise some 70% of cortical cells – critical to the functioning of the cortex – were completely lost. The pattern of damage to the cortex, with injury tending to worsen from the front of the cortex to the back, is also typical. There was marked damage to important relay circuits deep in the brain (the thalami) – another common pathologic finding in cases of PVS. The damage was, in the words of Thogmartin, “irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons.”[59]”

            Her case is why a living will should be created by all compitant adults. Rather than arguing about her wishes it could have been on paper. Further, once those decisions are made who are YOU to mess with it. In Oregon the people voted TWICE for assisted suicide.

            Rob

          • Average Joe

            Dntmkmecmoverther,
            As you know, I am a conservative Republican. I also live in Florida. I followed the Terry Schiavo case for years before it became a national sensation.
            First, I must agree with the others on this matter. The politicians got into thr fray for political gain and nothing more. The Federal Government should not have been involed in any way… other than an appeal before the Supreme Court (if the case went that far). Once the judge made his ruling (based soley on the medical analysis and not on emotional pleadings), the order should have been carried out (not withstanding the appeals process). This was turned into a media circus…plain and simple for ratings and political grandstanding. The doctors involved in her case could have easily drilled a hole in her head to find out how much brain matter still existed within her head (which turned out to be…not much as most of her brain matter had liquified), or possibly throuh a cranial Xray.

            Quality of life sometimes trumps quantity of life. Unfortunately in Mrs. Schaivo’s case, there was no quality of life worth continuing nor was there any hope that her quality of life would ever improve.
            While her circumstances and eventual death are tragic as is any death, sometimes we must face the inevitable and move on with our lives as best we can. The Schaivo case was one of those situations IMHO.

          • eyeswideopen

            Terry Shavio’s husband had every right to determine her medical care and did it ever occur to you that she and her husband had talked about what she wanted if that situation should happen? You conservatives are always butting into others business to try and get the outcome that you deem “right”. Thank God, we have a court system that upheld the Constitution and that husbands rights. Why do you feel that you have the right to shove your ideas or belief’s down someones throat?

        • Jay

          Actually robert, what Vagabond meant to say is that; adrian is too stupid to live, so why not take him off life-support.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Why are you on this site if the majority of the people who have discussions here are abhorrant to your sensitive nature?

          • Robert Smith

            Soneone has to stick up for real freedom of choice in America that the extreme reich wants to take away.

            Choice in life.
            Choice in weapons.
            Choice in recreational drugs.
            Choice in end of life decisions.
            Choice in (what is important to you?)

            Rob

          • eyeswideopen

            There is always the hope, that after we prove one of your idiot statements wrong with the facts, that one of you may have an eye opening moment and discover how you are being lead down the path to destroying America.

    • johnny

      Adrian

      listen closely! There is no connection. Present your proof or shut up!

      • Robert Smith

        johnny claims: “Present your proof or shut up!”

        Let’s see:

        Manifesto

        Claims to Police

        Rob

      • BigBadJohn

        Here is the manifesto.
        So is he conservative or liberal?

        * An Islamic Jihad against non-Muslims and Europe has been going on for the last 1400 year and most historical details of the Islamic atrocities have been removed or falsified by the academia by instruction of Western Europe’s cultural relativist elites (cultural relativism=cultural Marxism).

        * “Multiculturalism (cultural Marxism/political correctness), as you might know, is the root cause of the ongoing Islamisation of Europe which has resulted in the ongoing Islamic colonisation of Europe through demographic warfare (facilitated by our own leaders).”

        * “The essence of multiculturalism is that all cultures and religions are “equal”. In this context our Western governments launched a great “campaign of deception” against their own people with the goal of creating a falsified version of the Islamic and European
        Civilisation, in order to make them equal.”

        * “Time is of the essence. We have only a few decades to consolidate a sufficient level of resistance before our major cities are completely demographically overwhelmed by Muslims.”

        * “Over the last fifty years, Western Europe has been conquered by the same force that earlier took over Russia, China, Germany and Italy.”

        * The notion of ‘Political Correctness’ has been the bane of Europe. He says this concept “looms over Western European society like a colossus. It has taken over both political wings, left and right. Among so called Western European ”conservative” parties the actual cultural conservatives are shown the door because being a cultural conservative opposes the very essence of political correctness.”

        * “It controls the most powerful element in our culture, the media and entertainment industry. It dominates both public and higher education: many a college campus is a small, ivycovered North Korea. It has even captured the higher clergy in many Christian churches.”

        * Breivik says a feminization of culture has been taking place in Europe. “Today, the feminisation of European culture, moving rapidly since the 1960s continues to intensify. Indeed, the present-day radical feminist assault through support for mass Muslim immigration has a political parallel to the their anti-colonial efforts. This current assault is in part a continuation of a century-old effort to destroy traditional European structures, the very foundation of European culture.”

        * “The fate of European civilisation depends on European men steadfastly resisting Politically Correct feminism,” he says.

        * He says that since the creation of Islam in the 7th century, “the Islamic Jihad has systematically killed more than 300 million non Muslims and tortured and enslaved more than 500 million individuals.”

        * In modern times, the ‘anti-Christian jihad culminated in 1922 at Smyrna, on the Mediterranean coast, where 150,000 Greek Christians were massacred by the Turkish army under the
        indifferent eye of Allied warships. And he says the jihadi forces are now gaining more support from Islamic nation states that have become rich in the post World War 2 era.

        * “With the collapse of Soviet hegemony over much of the Muslim world, coupled with the burgeoning wealth of the Muslim oil-producing countries, the Muslim world increasingly possesses the freedom and means to support jihad around the globe.”

        * “The EU does not protect the peace in Europe. On the contrary, it undermines stability in the continent by dismantling border controls at a time of the greatest population movements in human history, with many migrants coming from politically unstable countries whose instability spills over to European states. Through its senseless immigration policies, the EU could become partly responsible for triggering civil wars in several European countries. Maybe it will be remembered as the “peace project” which brought war.

        * “Appeasement of Islam and Muslims is so deeply immersed into the structural DNA of the EU that the only way to stop the Islamisation of the continent is to get rid of the EU. All of it.”

        * “We are in the very beginning of a very bloody cultural war, a war between nationalism and internationalism and we intend to win it.

        * “Islam WILL be thrown out of Europe for a third time and the Marxist, humanist and globalist traitors who colluded with the Ummah will be held accountable for their treason.

        • professor

          John seems to know that “Diversity, Multiculturalism and Political Corrections” are tools of “destruction!” These “tools” have been used to destroy our own culture and social values. The extremists have used them to “make acceptable” things that otherwise would never have been considered “acceptable” or normal. “Preservation of country” and “common sense” have been wiped out by laws promoting Diversity, Multiculturalism and Political Correctness.

          Europe has found that diversity is destructive. A country cannot survive when people are separated into diverse groups, with different ideologies and agendas! Our country has been the greatest because all the people believed in the Constitution…. and, they wanted a life in America, as “Americans!” This country began to crumble when people began to come to America to “steal the good life” for themselves. They want nothing to do with being an “American.”

          • Robert Smith

            professor, I presume you aren’t speaking for the Native Americans: “This country began to crumble when people began to come to America to “steal the good life” for themselves. They want nothing to do with being an “American”

            Rob

          • professor

            You got that right boy, girl… whatever!

            What began the destruction, of this great Nation, has everything to do with the fact that foreigners no longer want to become “Americans,” they just want what Americans have!….. They will “take it” anyway they can get it, then they go join La Raza, CARE, or their respective radical mosques/organizations!

            They cause crime rates to increase, they increase our prison populations, they cause large increases in welfare, they cause large increase in the demand for health-care, and American schools are overrun with their kids! Americans shouldn’t have to pay more and more taxes to support any kind of them…. except for the fact that communists/socialist/marxists need their, “illegal votes!”

        • Average Joe

          Actually, the “Manifesto” is 1500 pages long. It is nice of you to say “here is the Mainfesto” and then only put your ( or some other blogger’s) cherry picked portions on display for us to read….that is what I call “disingenuous” as well as “half truths”….and half truths equate to half lies.

          • Kate8

            I guess I missed it…been too busy to spend much time on the computer lately…

            Just who did this shooter open fire on? A shopping mall? What?

            If his point was the Islamization of Europe, was he shooting at Muslims? What would be the point in his shooting Norwegians?

          • Average Joe

            A group of children (12-19 yrs. old) in Oslo Norway. Killing approx. 80 of them (as with any news report, the totals change daily).

        • Jana

          Big Bad,
          Whose manifesto is this supposed to be?

    • Debbie

      Adrian,
      Loughner was definitely a liberal. Does that mean that liberals are responsible for his killing, or is the individual responsible for his own actions.
      To begin with, liberals came out of the woodwork, claiming that “the (mean old) conservatives were responsible for that tragedy”. When it became clear that he leaned more left, all of sudden, he was just a “psychopath”.
      Well, which is it? You can’t have it both ways. Either he was influenced by the liberals to do his dirty deeds, or he was a psyhopath. You had better believe that if he was a conservative, the media would have come out in full force, claiming the “conservataives made him do it”.
      Incredible!

      • Robert Smith

        Debbie claims: “if he was a conservative, the media would have come out in full force, claiming the “conservataives made him do it”.”

        Actually the “media” is made up of CORPORATIONS. Remember? Guys like Murdock who may be a criminal he is so determined to prove his right wing perspective.

        BTW, it wasn’t government that sent jobs overseas, it’s CORPORATIONS.

        Rob

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          No, it was government. It was Bill Clinton who sold our jobs overseas, and made it so that it would be lucrative for corporations to leave here and take up business in other countries. First he raised taxes more than any other president in history, then he opened up the doors for them to leave, to save all those tax dollars, and operate in foreign countries and still sell their goods here. Yes, thank your Billy Bob Clinton for that.

          • Robert Smith

            ” First he raised taxes more than any other president in history”

            Really… How did it get to be 90% during the Eisgenhour administration? Someone had to raise it to get there.

            BTW, Clinton gave GWB an BALANCED budget.

            It’s Bush who nuked it.

            Rob

          • JeffH

            Robert Smith says, “BTW, Clinton gave GWB an BALANCED budget.”
            That myth has been exposed too many times to count…How about a $17.9 billion deficit…Yes, the deficit was almost eliminated in FY2000 (ending in September 2000 with a deficit of “only” $17.9 billion), but it never reached zero–let alone a positive surplus number. And Clinton’s last budget proposal for FY2001, which ended in September 2001, generated a $133.29 billion deficit. The growing deficits started in the year of the last Clinton budget, not in the first year of the Bush administration.

            http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Eisgenhour? Hello? If you believe the smoke and mirrors, go ahead, but Clinton never balanced the budget. And Robert, if I were elected president, and I cut the military and intelligence communities in half, leaving us exposed for the enemy to set up the events of 9-11 unnoticed, I could fuzz numbers to make it look like the budget was good too, while the country wasnt being protected. He also fleeced social security, but of course, you wont hear all about that for probably another 20 years. But the dude definately left us in a huge recession, and Bush had us out of it in two years. And you know what Robert? He didnt sit there pointing the finger and crying “Look what Billy did”. He rolled up his sleeves and went to work. Now we are approaching 3 years of Osama Obama, and things keep getting worse and worse, and people like you keep still, as is the Obama admin and the liberal media, pointing the fingers at the Bush admin. How many years until we start holding this loser responsible for what he hasnt done and for what he has done to this country? When is the blame game going to end? The answer is, as long as the democrats own the liberal media, never. They never will admit to screwing up. Its always someone else’s fault with them. Bush made mistakes, like not getting spending under control, and I and many Republicans bash and continue to bash them about that. But after 2-1/2 years going on 3 with this current left wing liberal admin, boy, I sure do miss that guy now. This change isnt working out for me, and other than the lazy bums that dont want to get a job, I dont see it working out for anyone that is working. Of course, those are just the facts Robert. And I know, you dont care about the truth.

        • Dntmkmecmoverther

          My God you are ignorant. Jobs go where the economy allows them to exist. The economy of the US has been dictated by government for so long that many of our jobs had to move to where they could continue to exist and make the products they sell. If they had stayed here, they would have failed because our government has absurdly claimed that we must be in a ‘global’ economy. WELL, if that is true, then the US will have to compete with the labor forces of the world instead of the labor forces of the US…that’s a very different labor pool.

          Also, our tax system is the most draconian in existence. It punishes those who succeed and rewards those who fail. If you don’t understand that then just look at who got the bailouts in 2009…they were all ‘failure’ businesses and financial institutions. My business which was on the ropes and had to close received NOTHING. Our demise was brought on by draconian taxes, ungodly regulations and ignorant lawyers.

          • professor

            Those are the facts…. government makes laws that renders our economical environment unfavorable to businesses,job creators.

            We should not forget about “Unions!” They have had a devastating effect on the ability of U.S. Companies to be competitive or to survive. Unions are another huge topic, but suffice it to say that they are a political entity funneling money to the democrats and the communist-in-charge! Unions have out-lived their usefulness, other than being an “arm of the democrat party.”

          • Average Joe

            How to metaphorically bury a Liberal

            1) Invite the Liberal on your radio show,TV show or blog site.

            2) Hand them a shovel

            3) Watch

            4) Applaud.

            5) Make sure you get the shovel back.

          • Rick

            Actually Professor, the unions, now, are the tools of George Soros and his Socialistic ideology and agenda. Let’s not forget organizations like Moveon.org, ACORN, Planned Parenthood, and NPR to name just a few others.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Thank you for your truthful comments. I have been saying that for years, that Im sick of our government punishing success and rewarding failure. All of us working people, and successful business’s are sick of it. We work our tails off, only for the government to want to take more and give more, for a longer period of time, to those who feel like we should take care of them, because they dont want to work, just have more and more kids that they cant afford, and we get to pay for them, and they get rewarded with more. And successful business’s get demonized in the National Press daily, while failures such as GM and Chrysler get billions of dollars of government aid, thus interfering with the free market system that made this country great. The government needs to back off the working people and successful business, and get on the butts of the failures, and make them step up to the plate and be reponsible for themselves. Its rediculous.

        • Cody

          Robert, You are certainly confused. Corporations are out to make money. Same with most politicians, but the Democrats are the leaders in this category and they love their power. These politicians have made it extremely difficult for corporation to make money using jobs from the US. They send them overseas to regain the profit margin. Liberals are the one that sent the jobs overseas by over regularization. The Liberal Media has also made it difficult for the really news to get out. Let me point out that there are a multitude of news organizations out there on the liberal front, like MSNBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN. There is just FOX on the other side. I think people like Soros needs to be prosecuted more than Murdock. The Liberal Media gets away with all sorts of false, inaccurate, and malicious reporting, but nothing much is done about it. Take off your rose colored liberal glasses and see the truth.

          • Robert Smith

            The ones you mention are all corporations.

            It’s corporations who sent jobs abroaud. I guess they didn’t have the “morality” to keep them in America.

            They did it for the almighty fat cats so they could get more money.

            Rob

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Its Bill Clinton and our governments taxation upon successful business’s that make they go abroad. Hello? Are you paying attention at all. They dont leave, just to leave. They leave to escape being punished for being successful, and they leave because Bill Clinton said it would be cool if our business closed down here, went to Mexico and hired people for 2 bucks a day, then sold their goods back here where American companies couldnt compete. Yeah, its kind of like that.

        • TIME

          Well Robot Smithieee,

          Your post are just about as brilliant as a ten week old sun dried turd.

          • Average Joe

            The sad thing is, he didn’t even try to polish his turd before trying to sell it to us…just sayin’

          • professor

            Now that is funny!

          • Average Joe

            Just for S’s and G’s….(pun intended).

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI

        • Patriot

          If it was beneficial for businesses to stay in the US, they would. Lets’ see increased taxes (the highest in the world), increase regulations and stupid subsities, Unions (public & private), NAFTA, etc. all btw stupid left wing agenda’s plus let’s now add into this Obamacare and the massive spending over the last 2.5 years, geez no wonder we have any business left here the US, wake up before there is nothing left but sand & dust!

          • Robert Smith

            “Lets’ see increased taxes (the highest in the world), ”

            Really… Why were ANY corporations in America during the 1950s when taxes were 90% and our economy was growing at an amazing rate?

            And! Two parents didn’t have to work to feed and house a family.

            BTW, it’s corporations that moves jobs, not the government. They have made BAD decisions for America to please their fat cats.

            Rob

        • Joy

          No, but the GOVERNMENT was responsible for NAFTA (thanks to the CLintons and their buddy-buddy relationship wiht China and its money)
          that put the last nail in the coffin of American manufacturing. The government was also the entity that allowed Japanese manufacuturers to undercut American manufacturers going clear back to the 1960′s.

          • BigBadJohn

            Who controlled both the house and the senate through Clinton’s years?

            Or are you claiming that a president can write and implement legislation on his own?

            Free Trade has been the rally flag for conservatives ever since Reagan opened the doors for trade with China.

          • 45caliber

            BBJ:

            It certainly seems as if Oblama can write and pass legislation on his own. Why couldn’t Clinton do it too?

          • Average Joe

            BBJ….A wake up call…read it and weep…..and then, you may want to re-think your position….before…. placing foot in mouth.

            Who’s better at running Congress?

            Since it’s Congress that sets the spending Budgets, sets the Deficits, and passes legislation affecting jobs and the economy (The President cannot spend one penny that has not been authorized by Congress), let’s look at the record of Congresses over the last 30 years (Through 2010);

            JOBS (39,761,000 Net New Jobs)

            Jobs created when Democrats controlled Congress (12 years) = 8,100,000 net new jobs.

            Jobs created when Republicans controlled Congress (10 years) = 21,773,000 net new jobs.

            Jobs created when Congress was split (8 years) = 9,888,000 net new jobs.

            DEFICITS (a) ($7.304 Trillion)

            Total Deficits when Democrats controlled Congress (12 years) = $5.022 Trillion.

            Total Deficits when Republicans controlled Congress (10 years) = $1.219 Trillion.

            Total Deficits when Congress was split (8 years) = $1.063 Trillion.
            NATIONAL DEBT ($12.878 Trillion = 93.4% of all the Debt in our History)

            Total New Debt when Democrats controlled Congress (12 years) = $7.859 Trillion.

            Total New Debt when Republicans controlled Congress (10 years) = $3.238 Trillion.

            Total New Debt when Congress was split (8 years) = $1.781 Trillion.

            ECONOMIC GROWTH ($11.873 Trillion of GDP growth)

            Total Growth (GDP) when Democrats controlled Congress (12 years) = $3.887 Trillion.

            Total Growth (GDP) when Republicans controlled Congress (10 years) = $5.623 Trillion.

            Total Growth (GDP) when Congress was split (8 years) = $2.363 Trillion.

            Draw your own conclusions, but these are undisputed facts from government sources.

            (a) Deficits do not equal the increase in the Debt because of the government’s ‘funny accounting’.

            Sources – Democrats controlled Congress from 1987 – 1994, and from 2007 – 2010.
            Republicans controlled Congress from 1995 – 2000, and from 2003 – 2006.
            There was a split Congress from 1980 – 1986 and for 2001 & 2002.

            Links to government data sites are as follows;

            Jobs – http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat1.pdf

            Deficits – http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals See Table 1.1

            National Debt – http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

          • BigBadJohn

            Joe, you need to pay attention here’s a link to the libertarian presidential candidate Harry Browne
            http://harrybrowne.org/articles/Reagan%27sLegacy.htm
            (there are ton of good articles here)

            do some research, yes the debt went way up under Reagan with a democratic congress – however Reagan vetoed any budget deal that he did not like or if he did not get what he wanted – so the brunt of that debt belongs to REAGAN. Approximately 3 trillion worth.
            A presidential Veto has more power than BOTH houses, unless you can get 2/3 to agree to over-ride!

            Republicans controlled congress all through Clinton’s 8 years and held his feet to the fire. They would not let Clinton spend and Clinton would not let them spend – the best of both worlds.

            All of that changed in 2000 when we had both a republican president and republican congress and senate. Pork barrel spending went up 50%. The national debt went up by 4 TRILLION. With the housing market failure and the tarp bail outs another 1.5 trillion was added in 2008.

            Add in GH Bush and 9 trillion of the current 14 trillion dollar debt can be pinned on republicans.

            Numbers are a funny thing, they can be made to say just about anything you want…..

        • 45caliber

          Rob:

          I think you are getting away from the focus of this thread. It is corporations that run the media alright – corporations set up and run by libs like Soros. And I don’t think that ANY lib politician in Washington is not a millionare – and despite their talk they certainly have no intention of beggaring themselves with high taxes for the rich.

        • John

          You have no clue what a CORPORATION is. You also assume, against your own demands for laws that CONTROL corporations, that interventionist laws have no effect on how corporations behave. It wasn’t CORPORATIONS that sent jobs overseas, it was the govt that twisted and distorted the economy with its obscene interventions that make it unprofitable for corporations to function in American, and profitable elsewhere.

          But how would you know, you’re the unthinking, dysfunctional product of leftist lies.

    • Julius Lohr

      Adrian, May I suggest an ENORMOUS increase in your fiber intake because, otherwise, you’ll likely explode from the buildup of fecal matter you seem to be housing!! Unsubstantiated charges are liberals’ rallying cry because truth and rationale are completely foreign concepts. A liberal can be standing on the beach and, if approached by someone admiring the grandeur of the ocean, would say “NO DUMMY!! We’re in the DESERT!! Can’t you see all of this sand?!?!?!??”

      • mark

        No, there are ridiculous, unsubstantiated charges made by both sides, liberal and conservatives. Just take a glance at numerous websites and you will find scores of them.

        • Dorthy

          I fully agree!….A world history lesson: Hate mongers from every walk of life spread their venom knowing that it divides…and through division, they “WIN”…Truth and humanity LOSE.

          • Joy

            Keeping quiet does more harm than speaking out, no matter what your viewpoints are. If we all kept silent, we’d be worse than slaves. YOU HAVE TO GET INVOLVED: passivity in the world we live in today is not going to work.

          • Jana

            Joy,
            You are so right. We on the right and Christians have kept silent way too long now. We allowed a lot of our rights to be taken away. We have awakened finally, and will be silent no longer.

          • Robert Smith

            Jana, what rights are those?

            Do you really want to assault women at clinics preying on them?

            Do you really want to deny health care to Americans who can’t afford it?

            Do you really want someone with a joint to go to prison?

            You can still pray, just not so loud that it bothers others. Here’s an idea! If your god is so all powerful why don’t you pray in your church where you won’t bother anyone else and let your god decide if he will grant your request? Ain’t powerful enoough to stop a clinic? Too bad. Ain’t powerful enough to stop treatment at a hospital? Great for those who need treatment. Not powerful enough to keep pot out of the hands of adults?

            Looks to me your god ain’t very powerful, or you are asking for the wrong things.

            Maybe you should consider giving folks the free will your god gave. What right do YOU have to take it away?

            Rob

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Notice that Robert thinks its alright to murder babies in their mothers wombs, and fully supports it, yet he verbally assaults God and calls Him out. Is it no wonder you are such a sad, sad man Robert. You have no hope, and now I fully understand the despair and sadness in your posts. You need Jesus Christ in your life, and you need it soon. You are circling the drain much faster than you think. Oh, and by the way Robert, God is powerful enough to stop any abortion clinic or any of the things you try to assail Him with. But he gives us what is called free will, and He sheds a tear when He watches the horrible, horrible things we do. But relax Robert, the first time He came, He came to serve man, and He did. He gave Himself up for us. The second time, He will come to reign and judge, and it isnt going to be so pretty for those that oppose Him when that time comes. You will see the brunt of His full power. Oh yes you will.

        • 45caliber

          mark:

          I love how you libs will blame the conservatives for most of the troubles in the world – but the moment it is proven that a lib is the real cause of some problem you try to insist that BOTH groups can cause problems.

          I don’t think any of us deny that both groups do cause problems – but by doing so we also do not insist that the libs are the ONLY ones doing it. We simply point out that the libs cause most of the bad problems and then won’t admit it, trying to blame them on the conservatives.

    • Lost in Paradise

      You are a nut case of the highest level. Did you ever read anything the T-Party wants?? Apparently not. You need to start using your “brain”, and start thinking for your self based on what is happening. Not on what you think is popular opinion.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Your kind of on track there. He needs to use his brain to think, instead of blindly following what the liberal think tank tells him to think. That is the problem. Maybe the brain is rotting like Bill Maher’s where he has totally lost his grip on reality.

        • Average Joe

          I believe that the differences can be summed up as follows.:
          Conservatives will read something and then try to verify the content by doing a bit of research and take the whole of what they’ve discovered into account before deciding what the “truth” is.
          A liberal will watch a 30 second soundbite and decide that it is the truth without blinking an eye. “They said it on TV (and they wouldn’t mistate), therefore, it must be true!”

          • PMS

            One of the truest statements Ive heard. I am always amazed how so many people say “The News said this or that” and its fact. Never ceases to amaze me.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Maybe when the liberals go on TV to talk their political diatribe, they should post that “As seen on TV” thing in the corner. That way their blind followers will have to think its true, because they saw it on TV. So sad of them.

    • DaveH

      If a member of a class behaves a certain way, all members of that class can be lumped together with that aberrant behavior?
      You are a bigot, Adrian.

    • lkar

      SO by your logic and connection, all Tea Party members should be captured, put on trial, and imprisoned (since you libs do not believe in capital punishment). By this same logic, every believer of Islam should be handled the same way, every time the union in Greece wrecks havoc and innocent are killed, they should be dealt with.
      Just blame the group and not the individual(s). I think Big Brother would be pleased with you comrade. Your thought police antics are much appreciated!

    • JeffH

      What I find most interesting is the commonality of some of these “faux” liberals who pop up now and then, not the regulars.
      Has anyone, besides myself, ever noticed that their names are usually spelled in lower cased letters and their rants all see so familiar?

      Hmmmm, sumpin’ is rotten in Denmark…

    • Void1972

      Adrian
      You still don’t see the truth.
      Christians have an extreme faith in our Lord. We follow the Bible and the New Testament. We love and respect life. Most Christians are Conservative. Conservative Christians are not likely to commit murder, as we really do not want to spend our eternity in hell. We really believe in and love God. God is our faith, and his son is our world.
      Liberals and communist are anti-God. You cannot be a communist, and believe in God. You can be a communist and believe in satan, as it is anti-God, as communist are.
      So would a Christian slaughter life? I think not. Anyone killing innocent life is not a true Christian, Catholic, or Jew. Murder is the most despised crime against our Creator.
      Liberals, progressives, communist, what ever name they go by, they are the evil ones.
      Just go to any prison, and take a poll, and you will see that 92% of prisoners in America are liberal democrats, as the population is 69% black, 20% Spanish and 11% other. True followers of God are less likely to go to prison.
      94% Homosexuals vote Democratic, 97% Black, 82% Spanish, 92% Muslim, 99% convicted child molesters,
      and most other demented, entitlement driven, anti-Americans are all liberal democrats.
      Is this the group you want to be associated with?
      These are the facts. Are all liberals in America anti-God? No, but Father forgive them, for they no not what they do!
      You still don’t understand the evil you fight for.
      Just know one truth. A true Christian will never murder! Period!
      We will protect our Own and our God, and our Country!
      God Bless America, and those who fight for her!!!!

    • CJM

      Adrian: Anyone in the world who has access to a computer can read the Tea Party Mission and Goals………you don’t even have to be a computer nerd to do so and YOU KNOW THAT. If you don’t then how did you even find the site you’re on now???? Get real, just because someone regurgitates the beliefs of another doesn’t make them a member, affiliate, associate, or anything else; it just says they read about them somewhere. Furthermore, its already been shown that Breivik has nothing to do with American politics and that his actions were his own. Quit trying to put the responsibility for his personal actions onto someone else or some organization. If you decide to parade up and down Main Street USA, you know it’s against the law but you decided to do it anyway. So, who is responsible? The liberals you love so much or is it YOUR responsibility? In other words, put responsibility where it belongs and stop applying it to anyone or anything else.

  • http://aol.com sean murrey ILLInio

    The libs sure like the muslims goes had and hand. Queers.

    • mark

      Great in-depth analysis! Have you ever considered teaching at a university. Liberty University, maybe

      • libertytrain

        you’ve used this line a couple times now, it’s not impressive, clever – just high school-ish :)

      • DaveH

        So, Mark, you have a problem with Liberty? Then what strange perversion draws you to this site?

        • TIME

          Oh Dave,

          Didm’t you know that Barry pays his monkey twinkies quite well.
          Yes indeed on line bloger maggots get paid with US TAX payer money starting at as little as $55K per year, good ones can make an easy $200K PLUS.
          I guess thats called being a hypocrite they are alledged to hate anyone who makes money yet they want to be paid.

          Oh well.

          • DaveH

            And since their comments are counter-productive to their cause, they are just typical unproductive and overpaid Government employees.
            Paid or not, I love it that they post their inane comments so that others can see the stuff Liberals are really made of.

    • BigBadJohn

      WOW read the manifest that I posted above – sounds like you are right there with Breivik…..

      • Average Joe

        BBJ,

        If “ignorance is bliss”, you must be the happiest person in the universe…..or at least real close.

  • Linda

    You sound very angry and upset, and you and I (a registered member of thr TEA Party) have every right to be. Now I am labeled a murderer after being called astroturf, racist, mean, enemy of the state et…

    I’m beginning to hate these people for no other reason than their constant ignorance and childish behavior.

    • Joy

      I was surprised when they announced this tragedy in Norway. Of all the European countries, I figured Norway was one of the the quietest and most laid-back. Goes to prove that you never really know.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        More murders per capita than in the U.S. All of Europe is lost. Get ready for the fema-camps and Obama’s National Police force.

        • Robert Smith

          You are so very wrong Capitalist. Why does the right make up so many wrong things?

          Most recent numbers:

          Netherlands 0.93

          United States 5.0

          You can look at numbers for regions, and all sorts of things relative to shootings at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

          Rob

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Give me capitalism, or we collapse as a great free country. Of course, it seems as a liberal, that is what you want anyhow. If we continue to follow the ways the democrats and their blind followers like you want, we will soon be speaking Aramic, and somehow while you are being marched to your death, you will try to blame it on Bush. Shame on you and others who blindly follow this liberal think tank that seeks to take us all to our grave. You should be ashamed to consider yourself an American, support these anti American left wing liberal democrats. Shame shame, everyone knows your name.

          • Dntmkmecmoverther

            Bob: if you hate capitalism so much (which is the business and economic model this country was founded upon ) I will gladly buy you a one way ticket to the socialist country of your choice. Just shut up, send me your address and country you wish to live in and I will make that happen; I certainly don’t want to see you oppressed by those of us who live and love the freedoms we enjoy in the USA.

          • DaveH

            What are you, Robert, if not capitalist?
            Come on, be honest.

          • Average Joe

            DaveH,

            “What are you, Robert, if not capitalist?
            Come on, be honest.”

            (puts hand up)…ooo, ooo, I know….would the answer be….FOOLISH?

        • mark

          Right, we are all doomed, doomed, DOOMED! IN A MONTH OR TWO THE UN WILL RUN EVERYTHING. AND THEN EVEN WORSE – THE EASTER BUNNY WILL BE IN CHARGE! OH GOD, OH GOD, WHO CAN SAVE US! WE’RE DOOMED! DOOMED! Apparently some individuals actually believe this crap. And that the earth is flat. We never landed on the moon; it was all staged by the government and filmed in a studio. Oh excuse me, I have to go now, Obama’s Death Panel police are shooting my parents right now. They just finished with every other senior on the block. I want to go and take some pictures of this, so I can post it on your site – along with the clip of those Martians Landing on the Vatican.

          • Karolyn

            The Martians I could believe! :-)

          • Jay

            Well halleluia, mark finally GETS IT! Welcome aboard mark, we were getting a little worried about you, but it seems there’s hope for you yet. See what happens when you hang around people that know and understand the truth? Now be honest, doesn’t that feel like you just won the lottery?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Since crime has become commonplace and an everyday “normal” happening it no longer draws media attention.

  • anastasia beaverhouser

    it is too bad we don’t have a news anchor that is willing to tell the truth, I guess money does talk!

    • Robert Smith

      News is big business. CORPORATIONS Just as the right wing Murdock.

      Rob

      • Brad

        News organizations have the obligation to report the news unbiased. The MSM ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, and CNN all are slanted toward the left, they favor Ohmama 75% of the time and will never report on a subject making the left look bad! Case in point, Ohmamas last trip to Russia, he was snubbed by every single Russian politician.

        See the video for yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1C_NWMRs8Q

        • Push comes to Shove

          I was watching the MSM last night, as i do once in a blue moon to here the rhetoric they are speaking. The Rachel Maddow show had a guest host on last night and the person (don’t remember her name) was talking about the liberal governor of North Carolina and how she was a hero because she was vetoing everything the republican led congress (both houses) sent to her desk, even though as she admitted, her veto’s were being overridden by major majorities in the congress. And then she made the comment that the governor needed to continue to fight lest they become “KANSAS”. Using it as a derogatory comment. What lunacy the left produces. Talk about liberal SPIN

      • JeffH

        Robert Smith, you missed the big money men of the Tea Party and the right wingnuts, the Koch Brothers…what happening, ya slipped a few notches down the rung. No anti-American progressive/liberal/commie/Marxist/socialist like yourself should ever pass up the opportunity to bash them.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      If the liberal democrats have their way, they will shut down Fox News and then they will own all the liberal reporting, which they pretty much own now with ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC and others. It is a dirty shame that the press has no interest in pursuing the truth, only in pushing the left wing agenda. And they wonder why their ratings are slowly getting lower and lower. But the real sad part is, there are uneducated people who actually believe what these lepers report, and they dont research a bit of it and believe what these liars tell them. Eh Robert Smith? Yeah, thats what Im talking about.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Stop watching Fox for a while (you decide how long) and then come back and start carefully watching and listening. They are Liberal lite and not truly conservative.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          As long as they have Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity on there, I know there are 2 guys to divulge the truth.

    • 45caliber

      anastasia:

      That’s one reason I like to glance over several European newspapers every day. They are much more likely to tell the truth about a story – particularly when it is an American story. They were the first to realize and publish the fact that this nutcase is NOT a Christian. He is an atheist who calls himself a Darwinist. Or, in some comments, he calls himself a Christian atheist – a conflict of terms.

  • http://Personalliberty Tony

    To Everyone:
    I have to admit, it’s ridiculous to blame the Tea party on this. True the Tea party/baggers are hypocritical extremists but let’s
    be for real. The man, that did the Norwegian massacre, was an alienated, love sick pyscho. He was angry because he couldn’t find fulltime employment and he felt jilted by a beautiful female pop singer of Kenyan descent. So, let’s not make things greater than they
    are. This no different when the Tea Baggers claim there’s a “leftists
    conspiracy” to take over. Follow the patented motto, be intouch with reality. Thanks!!

    • Linda

      great. Now I can add ‘hypocritical extremist’ to the list of names I’ve been called.
      Do you have any idea that, as a Marine Corps veteran, I have and am still willing to DIE for your right to call me names? Probably not because you don’t know me, but you know I’m a ‘hypocritical extremist’.

      • http://Personalliberty Tony

        Dear Linda:
        I, also, served in the Marine reserves when i was in college more than 25 yrs ago. So. i’m patriotic too. However, i don’t take things to extreme the way you Tea partiers/ Baggers do. That’s the difference,plus as i mentioned many times , i’m a conservative myself.
        What i read from you Tea baggers is pure reactionarism. Sorry but that’s how i see. Therefore, from the famous chilhood tale of “Cinderella” if the slipper/shoe fits then wear it or change your tune. Thanks!!

        • libertytrain

          tony you are really quite rude.

          • Push comes to Shove

            Libertyrian, He is rude.

            Tony,
            Let me speak in a manner in which you liberals most understand.

            ‘Please quite OFFENDING me and the people on this site’ Your offensive with your teabaggers comment. You have no substanance so you call names, talk about reactionist. But i apologize for NOT believeing in letting democrats bring our country to it’s financial knees and change the morality of our christian values.

        • Warrior

          Tony,
          You really need to seek help with your homophobic problem.

        • Linda

          Please site all examples of TEA Party extremism. If it’s well organized, unviolent protests, then yes I guess we are extreme. Every one has opinions and emotions run high. That is not extremism – acting out violently is. As in almost every single left protest I’ve seen so far. Are you willing to die to defend the Constitution? You’re childrens’ future? Or are you ready to die for your PARTY? Which is it – comrade?

          • Robert Smith

            Linda wants some REAL examples of extremism in the Tea Party.

            Its 2010 convention featured a parade of divisive figures, include the viciously anti-gay head of Vision America Rick Scarborough.

            A former Alabama Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore. He was impeached.

            Rob

          • DaveH

            Can you name any Liberals, Robert, who truly want to bring people together? And I don’t mean those you want to bring together so you can pick their pockets.

          • 45caliber

            Rob:

            Somehow I don’t see someone who is against giving the gay group extra benefits that everyone else doesn’t have as an extremist. And your “impeached” judge was one I support – he was at least willing to agknowledge our country’s origins. I don’t consider anyone who is willing to admit history is correct as an extremist.

          • JeffH

            Robert Smith, keep rasping for straws….oh, I knew it would just be a matter of time before you would toss your “gay agenda” into the fray. Never one to disappoint are you.

          • Jay

            Liberals claim to be peace lovers but they sound like a bunch of war-moungers. Didn’t obama promise to bring the troops home? Yet he stared three new wars in the middle-east. What a bunch of hypocrites!

          • DaveH

            You sure can’t accuse Liberals of being consistent, Jay.

        • TIME

          TONY,
          Yes sure your just peachy cool BUBBA. No extreeme’s with you, hell no your post shows a very keen mind indeed. NOT!

          Hey WANKER, are you a real TEA BAGGER?

          • Void1972

            Tony
            A tea bagger is a liberal homosexual and 94% of them voted for obama.
            A Tea Party Member is an American! Are you a teabagger?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Nice call Void, you hit him right between the eyes with the truth. I wonder if it registered with him?

        • Lost in Paradise

          Tony it sounds like you were never a “real Marine”, just in name only, and what a woosie you are.

          • Bob

            He was probably a cook.

          • Average Joe

            He stated that he was “reserves”…that means he played weekend warrior for two weeks per year……He’s one of my Heroes….(not)….another armchair warrior…he’s going to talk (AKA… BS) us to death……

          • Rick

            My best guess is….he was released from his obligation within 6 months of starting BMT for “failure to adapt.”

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Probably one of those guys that went to basic, curled up in the fetal position in the corner of the barracks and was crying “I need my mommy”, and they sent his butt packing home with no record of him being in. I have to think that is what happened. No way he made it through.

        • Walter

          Tony. Have you ever been to a tea party event? The one I went to were mostly people waving American flags and holding signs like; “Stop Spending Our Children’s Future”. Sure there are crazies in every organization, but to call mostly middle aged, middle class, hard-working people, who for once in their lives are speaking their minds; “extreme”, makes me wonder about your definition of “conservative”, which you claim to be.

          • Brad

            Walter,

            Hes probably a “Conservative Democrat” why would a conservative call a tea party actavist a derogatory name…

        • DaveH

          Tony, can you just stick to the facts, instead of the personal attacks?
          What do you hope to accomplish with your disparaging comments other than to show us that your aren’t really compassionate?

        • S.C. Murf

          Reserves? While in college? You coward!

          up the hill
          airborne

          • S.C. Murf

            You got the Government to foot the bill for college then received a monthly pay check too, sounds like you were double dipping then when all was said and done you got out of the reserves and went back to your parents basement didn’t you

            up the hill

            airborne

          • Rick

            This reminds me of a few enlisted members who joined for the educational benefits then, right after the first gulf war started, they suddenly came out of the closet and tried to shirk their responsibilities. It eventually came out that they only joined the military for the educational benefits and didn’t have any intention of living up to their obligations. Not surprising in this culture of government-provided benefits and the “you owe me a college education and welfare because I was born in America” attitude that has been cultivated and fomented in this country since the 60′s. But once the going gets tough, they try to “bail” and will claim whatever they have to in order to get out of it whether it’s claiming they are gay, a consciencious objector, or feign some form of a disability making them ineligible for deployment. What really “chaps my A..” is that they are not charged with defrauding the government or misrepresentation and subsequently tried and (if found guilty) sent to Leavenworth for at least the remainder of their active duty commitment. I’d personally like to see the additional 4 or 6 yrs of obligatory inactive reserve status tacked onto their sentence too. And without possibility of early release.

        • professor

          Tony, the fact that you insist on writing “Tea Baggers,” shows you are the “extreme left!” Either that or you just like to use the same insult that gay men like to use. Neither, puts a “positive” spin on what you have to say… You instantly discredit yourself!

          • Average Joe

            I firmly believe that Tony is a liberal…who claims to be conservative in order to spew his liberal views in an attempt to cast a negative view of “real” conservatives. Since he can’t get real conservatives to behave this badly, he “pretends” to be one….so that he can say….”See what kind of people these conservatives are…it’s right there….in print for the world to see!”

            If somebody thinks they’re a hedgehog, presumably you just give ‘em a mirror and a few pictures of hedgehogs and tell them to sort it out for themselves.
            Douglas Adams

          • Cawmun Cents

            “It may be difficult to see the spots on a black leopard,since it requires you to get very close,and search thoroghly.”-CC.
            Professor,I am curious…..there seems to be an argument going around about girl next door,or movie star.But if you were truly a professor,then wouldnt it be astute to pursue the matronly rich woman?After all,eventually you will be rescued(from the island which Gilligan resides upon)and then you will need a grant to study the contrast between girls next door,and movie starlets,correct?So naturally while there are only two chicks of particular interest on the island,a professor worth his salt would accrue basic intelligence,by noting that the woman whos husband is filthy rich,is the one who attentions will be met with reward,savy?Ah,Mrs Howell,your virtues are a well kept secret are they not professor?Salud!To the heel masquerading as the guy who isnt interested in women.I salute you sir.How are those juicy young co-eds doing these days?——HAW!-CC.

        • Dale on the left coast

          Last time I checked Tony . . . the “Baggers” were in Nancy’s riding in San Fran. So Tony . . . you are OK with the Pres and his loons spending 4 BILLION Dollars a day that you don’t have . . . how do you propose to survive in the “New Greece”?????

        • Elevenarrows

          Tony, Just to clarify things for me, how would you, as a conservative, specifically differ from the Tea Party platform? Just curious…

        • PainesGhost

          For Pity’s sake,

          Being a Veteran or claiming to be a Veteran doesn’t mean you have any sense. Your mean-spirited diatribes against Conservatives, particularly your TOO-FREQUENT use of the term TEA BAGGER gives you away as one who is following a TALKING POINTS SCRIPT rather than having intelligent thoughts to contribute to the discussion.

          Beyond being un-necessarilly rude, you show that you are guided by EMOTIONAL responses rather than reasonable thought. Anyone that blames American Conservatives for something a lone European WHACKO did is grasping desperately at straws, as there is NOTHING that any American Conservative could actually DO that would cause someone an ocean away to commit heinous acts such as these. This had to have come from inside his own head, conclusions he had drawn independently (you know, the Europeans also have radio, TV, and newspapers, the internet and such. Is it just possible this loon picked up his framework from some of THOSE influences???).

          If I were you I would duck my head, because at some point REALITY is going to SLAP a lot of people silly, and the vast majority of them are going to be libtards. They have reserved a place for you near the front of the line…..

          I wish you the very best in obtaining the remedial education that you so desperately need.

        • Kate8

          Tony – Please be more specific. Just what are you calling extremist?

          Could it be the call for lower taxes and smaller government? More individual liberty?

          I’m puzzled about just what it is that causes liberals (I don’t care what you call yourself) consider extreme.

    • Michael

      We are all being screwed by a person of Kenyan descent :0)

      • Linda

        Obama being a Kenyan doesn’t mean anything (except that he is not eligible for POTUS – but that’s another discussion). He has a daddy fixation and is an extreme narcissist. But I digress.
        What matters is that he was raised by his Communist party member grandparents and mother. Fully indoctrinated into the Marxist vision of Progressivism at home and in shool, and schooled in the Marxist method of taking control developed by people like Soros & Alynski.

        He is the Manchurian candidate.

      • Joy

        Well, the apple does not fall far from the tre, and don’t be too sure Obama is really a Kenyan. I read a VERY interesting article the other day that speculates he actually the son of Malcom X, and he has no white blood at all. His ‘mother’ was nothing more than a stage prop.

        • Karolyn

          OMG! Yet another weird rumor from some wacko, fear-mongering, hate-mongering blogger? Do you believe everything you read that supports your views?

          • Joy

            Actually it was a report compiled by the Mossad (Israeli Intelligence, for those who don’t know) back in 2008. It was a very interesting report, that included interviews with people who knew Obama’s mother and never saw her pregnant. It also detailed Ann’s parents background, which was extremely liberal, and they were known acquaintances of Malcom X. It also went on to trace Obama’s college money to a SAudi businessman, who was also a familir of Malcom X. And last but not least, the article showed a computer overlay of Obama Sr’s face, and Malcom X’s face over Barack Obama’s and guess what? Obama sr and Obama Jr looked NOTHING alike. So you lefties can believe what you like about your tin god in the White House: sooner or later the truth about this man WILL come to light. I don’t think it’s going to be very flattering to him at all.

          • Dale on the left coast

            Did you help produce the “photoshopped” Birth Cert.???
            It was an obvious Fraud . . . but irrelivant!!!
            To be pres of the USA . . . . the Constitution says “Parents” must be Citizens . . . Note the Plural!!!

          • Kate8

            Joy – I have read that, as well. I also listened to an interview with a man who was part of the investigation. The evidence is solid.

            Of course, this isn’t going to go mainstream anytime soon. Too much at stake for the PTB.

            There is way more being hidden in this usurper’s life than any of us know. EVERYTHING about him is a lie.

        • professor

          What Joy says may be true. We actually have no idea where this man came from or who his parents were. It seems that there was no “great love” for him, by those that were supposedly family members.. There has been so many secrets, and lies told about his past, that we cannot assume we know the truth about anything. He does not look black to me… He looks more Arab than anything..more like an Arab crossed with a black.. I don’t see the “white blood” in him..

        • Jay

          When it comes to obama, nothing would surprise me, and anything is possible. One thing is for sure, he’s a war-mounger, and a lair. Why has he not brought the troops home like he promised? Because he’s a WAR-MOUNGER!!!

      • mark

        From 2001 to 2009, we were screwed by a person of English descent: George W. Bush.

        • DaveH

          A Liberal Republican.

          • JeffH

            Thank you for clarifying that. The liberals still think the GB bashing is an effective manuever, kinda like bashing the Tea Party. It’s like telling the same joke over and over and they’re the only ones still laughing.

        • professor

          But, it is okay that our country is being “destroyed” by a black, foreign muslim? Nothing done by Bush, justifies the destruction being done by the foreign communist that is occupying the White House.

          • mark

            He’s not a Muslim, he’s not a communist, and you are only half-right on the black part. His mother was white. Bush started two massive, unConstitutional wars and the worst recession since 1937-38. Obama is only trying to clean up Bush’s incredible mess.

          • Push comes to Shove

            Mark,
            Maybe the wars were unconstitutional, but they were approved by the congress, OBAMA entered a war without congressional approval. Who is worse? Big Bad Bush or your hero Obama?

            See if you can answer that one honestly.

          • Average Joe

            mark,

            But….aren’t we still in those illegal wars that you rightly say “Bush got us into”? What does that say about BO?….why aren’t you bashing him for still being there (in those two illegal wars)…or getting us involved with Pakistan,Libya and Yemen?……You’re sounding a whole lot like a “Hypocrite”….just sayin’.

          • mark

            We have been involved militarily in Pakistan and Yemen on the Al Qaeda front since 2001. Obama was not president then. He has continued this policy, using only drones and Special Forces. I disagreed strongly with Obama’s even limited intervention in Libya. It was misguided and wrong. And he should have went to Congress after 90 days. He also would probably have gotten terrible flack had he done nothing and Qadafi murdered several thousand rebels and their civilian supporters. There is not great popular outcry, you may have noticed on the very limited Libyan intervention in which no U.S combat planes or ground forces are participating. No great popular outcry from either the right or the left. And we all know the reason why. Vietnam: 58,000 U.S. dead, 400,000 U.S. wounded, cost to taxpayers in 2011 dollars app. $1 trillion. Iraq: 4800 U.S. dead (and counting), 40,00O U.S. wounded (and counting), cost to taxpayers $1.2 trillion (and counting); Afhanistan 1500 U.S. dead (and counting), 12,000 U.S. wounded (and counting), cost to taxpayers app. $480 billion (and counting). LIBYAN INTERVENTION: 0 U.S. DEAD, 0 U.S. WOUNDED, COST TO TAXPAYERS: $1 BILLION (AND COUNTING). Most American would prefer a thousand limited Libyan interventions with zero U.S. boots on the ground, zero U.S. dead, and zero U.S. wounded over any Iraq or Vietnam War. In fact, I would say that if we lost zero dead and zero wounded in Vietnam and never sent 1 single U.S. ground soldier there, most Americans would not even consider it to be a U.S. war, worthy of any great attention. And I doubt if the U.S. servicemen who served while it went on at distanat air bases and aircraft carriers with zero dead and zero wounded would even qualify for combat veteran benefits today. There certainly wouldn’t be a Vietnam War Memorial today with zero U.S dead and zero U.S. wounded listed on it. Just as there will never be a Libya Intervention Monument with zero names on it. If we could only have more wars like this where not a single U.S. soldier dies, or is wounded. Actually the neocons nearly predicted this with Iraq, remember? The Iraqis were all going to greet our troops with flowers…

          • Average Joe

            markI hope you are not assuming that Iapproved of Bush
            s “war on terror” because I wasn’t and was quite vocal while it was happening. My point is that you are still bashing Bush for what he did, while ignoring that BO is not only continuing the same policies of Bush, but has applied steroids to those policies….and yet all of the liberals continue to bash Bush …while giving BO a free pass. The same can be said for Bush’s spending policies….everything that the left has decried Bush on….BO has increased the same policies ten fold…..but libs continue to bash Bush…and give BO a free pass. Stop the hypocracy and let’s all be honest…..Both of them were destructive to the nation….and both are lower than pond scum…plain and simple. As for congress….both sides are simply looking out for their own personal interests (power nad financial gain) and the people be damned…..end of story. So please, stop bashing one party/person unless you are willing to aknowlege that the “other” party is equally at fault….they are all CROOKS!

          • professor

            Mark, you haven’t a clue who you are talking about….there is a stranger in the White House and no one knows who he is or where he came from. We don’t know who his parents actually were…we only know what he has told us! How much to do you think that is worth! If our enemies could put him in the White House, they could make up a story that would be acceptable to voters!

            My opinion is that he is “protected” and his sudden rise to the presidency was orchestrated. He is not what he says he is, and there is overwhelming evidence that he is NOT American! No American could do to “his” country what this muslim is doing. Those turning a “blind eye” to what is actually happening, have to consider themselves part of the problem..

        • 45caliber

          mark:

          And that has exactly what to do with today’s comments???

          • mark

            Are you the class monitor today? Oh, I’m sorry I will try to get back on point. That is agree with whatever version of the latest, irrational, conspiracy theory, paranoia they are peddling today.

          • 45caliber

            mark:

            I’m simply trying to understand how Bush being President during those years had anything to do with the attack in Norway.

        • Dale on the left coast

          Mark . . . why not list all the evil Bush policies that the “Won” changed????
          He stopped drillion for our own oil.
          He put Homeland Security on Steroids.
          And of course . . . where Bush was spending 1.6 Billion a day that we didn’t have . . . . O’bummer has increased that to over 4 Billion a day (almost 3 times the spendy Bush) . . . . and the little marxist wants even more Trillions . . . can you say “Greece” Mark???

          • Dale on the left coast

            And I almost forgot . . . the Clueless clown started a THIRD WAR!!!

          • JeffH

            Oh those pesky facts… :)

        • Elevenarrows

          As someone who considers herself ultra-conservative, I have to agree, Mark. I was horrified at what President Bush did to destroy allegiance to the Constitution. I did not vote for or support him. I can’t understand why liberals believe that all conservatives think Bush is great. Don’t lump us all together.

        • Jay

          And from 2009 to present, we have, and are, being screwed by a person of Kenyan descent: Barrack Obama!

          • Robert Smith

            At least he isn’t going after your library records. That’s where Homeland Defense started under Bush. Talk about taking away freedom under the umbrella of lies.

            Rob

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          If your going to lie mark, at least lie correctly. Obama was elected in 2008, was he not? But you carry Bush to 2009. Lie. Did not more Americans have jobs under Bush, than under any American president, ever? Was not unemployment lowest in history while he was president? Did not the stock market reach its highest point ever under Bush? Yes, by jove I think I am correct. Did not Bush leave office with 4.6 percent unemployment? Does not Obama now have it, at what they say is 10 percent and rising when we all know it is more like 13 to 15 percent. When does it because his turn to be responsible? When? Ever?
          Quit beating a dead horse, and make your liberal do nothing democrats man up and be responsible for running the country into the ground. Remember when Bush took over from Clinton? Major recession, major problems. Within 2 years, economy running really good. So what is the liberal excuse as to why they cant get the job done? And no, your pointing the finger at someone who has been gone for over 2-1/2 years isnt working. In fact, it never was working. Failure for this admin, absolute failure. Own up to it, and quit being a blind follower. Bush didnt control spending, to which I hold him accountable and it ticked me off. But for what these current losers are doing, it makes me miss him. We were far better off.

    • Cribster

      Tony,

      Are you aware of what the term tea bagger means? Lableling all liberals/progressives/democrats as MF’rs would be less repugnant.

      Whoever uses that term immedialtely loses all credibility.

      • TIME

        Crib
        Yes tony knows, as he a real tea bagger.

        • JeffH

          TIME, you can almost bet that Robert Smith has some extensive experience at “tea bagging”.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Are you saying what I think you are saying? oh boy.

          • JeffH

            Nadzieja, yep!

      • mark

        You mean if you viciously insult someone on this site you have lost all credibility? In that case, virtually half of our contributors have no crediblity. But I agree with you, we should eliminate insults and engage instead in credible arguments. But I fear the horse has already left the barn on the ugly insult issue. On this and practically all sites.

        • Jay

          If you truly believed the drivel you just wrote, you would then apply and follow your own sanctimonious advice!

        • Nadzieja Batki

          My my, does it hurt to be so sensitive that if people disagree with you it hurts and makes you so angry.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          uh, are you kidding me? Have you read any of your posts at all? Wow!

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Typical mob mentality, calling people you know nothing about names. Why are you posting on a freedom related site in the first place?

      • Linda

        Non no no. It’s wrong to not have opposing opinions. If everyone stayed in their corner there can be no discourse, no debate. It’s not a matter of ‘my way or the highway’. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and political stance. It’s healthy, makes us think and sometimes libs have a point (short term thinking) that can be AUGMENTED by conservative long term thinking.
        The name calling is tiresome, tho.

        • TIME

          Linda,

          There is no such thing as “discorse” with a QUASI liberal, aka; tony the maggot.

        • just little ole me

          Linda you are so right about the name calling. I think when you name call it only angers the other person you are trying to get through to. It turns them on the offensive right away. That ruins your chance of ever talking reason and logic. We need to base all in fact and make sure our resources are credible. It reminds me of young children on a playground spouting venom to try and out hurt the other child. I was a tea party member now I have returned to being We the People. I however left when we had members enter the white house caucus. I think that is wrong. I wanted the movement to stay non political. I am afraid after some time it will be infiltrated and used as the republic party has and gives the left an even bigger excuse to use us in their political games. I wanted it to stay pure. As of yet it is standing its ground and I am proud of them for that. How long will that last when they are intermingled with power grabbers and vote buyers. They have entered the lair of the devil. I believe the majority of the Tea Party will stay pure but it only takes a few to create a bad name. Shame on those on either side of the spectrum who want to stoop to name calling because they feel they have been offended. Since when have we become weak in this area. I seen both conservatives and progressives/liberals, democrat and republicans tear each other apart with such language that it hurts my ears and heart. Makes both sides in that instance WRONG. This is not what God preaches. If you don’t believe in God what about men like Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr. and so forth. There are great men who built foundations of peace. Hate is our enemy and I don’t know about you I am tired of it from some of those on both sides. There are good men on all sides. Can’t we build a foundation with that?

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Stop feeling and start thinking.

          • Cawmun Cents

            Amen!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Those in the Tea Party love America and the freedoms we have enjoyed as a nation. They love country, God and family. And for you to accost them and call them vial homo-sexual names, shows your lack of education and your anti-American true feelings. Shame on you Tony. When after all these years, someone comes around who actually gives a damn about this country and is pissed watching it circling the drain, and then you assault them with your homo-sexual slanderous assault without basis. Shame on you. If you hate this country that much, you need to get out man. Let us who love this country stay here, but if your that full of hate towards it, get out, and do it now.

  • DENNIS

    Liberals love people like the illegal alien muslim terrorist in the white house, because they are trying to drag everyone, but themselves, down into the pit of poverty. Trickle down wealth/economics, doesn’t meet their “share the wealth” philosophy fast enough, but dragging everyone down into the pits gives them more power faster. If they allow obamalamadingdong to give illegal mexicans legal status, we may all be in the pits faster than you can say illegal alien muslim. What we need is higher wages, which means, share the profits for “working” people, not share the wealth for couch potatoes sucking in 16 oz. sodas and candy bars through taxes. If you employers had been paying people more, there would be more conservatives paying more taxes,rather than you paying higher taxes for couch potatoes. You can pay more for people to work for you, or pay more taxes for people to sit on their axxes. Greed has caused you to move your industry overseas. You are no longer happy to be millionaires, but have to be billionaires. That is causing our rich against the poor war the left is waging against us. The dumborats should have been protecting our industry with quotas on imports. They like quotas for hiring minorities, why not on our industry killing imports???? You idiot dumborats that vote for leaders, when have they ever saved one job for you?????? You keep voting for these worthless dumborats and they keep letting your jobs leave the country? Wake up,,, vote conservative,,,

    • Joy

      Actually, I really think the libs love the ‘class-warfare’ Obama has instigated sicne he was elected. Every socialist platform has to have a class enemy: Hitler had the Jews, Stalin had the West, Jim Jones had the FBI, and now Obama has the rich people and corporations. He considers Americans making $250K and up ‘rich’. Its becoming obvious to me that if you have a job, you’re rich in Obama’s world view.

    • Lost in Paradise

      Dennis you must be a UNION THUG! Why do you want higher wages? TO pay for a 3000sq.ft.house,and all the toys to go with it? Live within your means, or get the requirments for a higher paying job, and that does not mean joining a slippery union.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Couch potatoes sucking in 16 ounce sodas? More like porch sitters, drinking 30′s and smoking pot and cigarettes all day, while the government continues to give them their handouts, you know, to keep them down in their place. And then they turn around and vote for these same guys that have kept them down for so long. This is what a lack of education, and listening to the liberal media brings. And in the meantime, they keep taking more and more from working people like me, and giving more and more to this lazy arse’s who wont work. And then Im the bad guy. What? How did we allow it all to get so twisted around, where we reward failure, and punish success? How did we come to this point? Its pretty easy. We kicked God out of everything, and we started following the ways of man. And as it is written, “There is a way to man that seems right, and it is the way of death”. My friends, we are on that path. Stay thirsty my friends.

    • DaveH

      Obviously, Dennis, you have never owned a business. Business owners must hire people who produce more value than they consume, or that business will not be viable for long. Most people, who start businesses, do so to make money, not to throw it away. If they wanted to do that, they could just give their money to charity and save themselves all the effort and anguish of operating a business (especially true in the current day hostile business environment).
      But feel free to swim against the tide and pool your money with like-minded people who want to pay their employees more than they’re worth. Good luck with that one.

  • Paul Gardner

    As a Norwegian-American liberal who has spent nearly 3 years in Norway in various bits and pieces of time I’m totally baffled by what happened in Oslo and Utoya last Friday.
    I don’t expect to ever understand or know why Breivik did what he did.

    While I’m sure there are mouthy liberals out there saying stupid things about this, the majority of us are just stunned and sad.
    There’s no reason to point fingers – that would be inappropriate.

    I do not think there are enough liberals trying to link the Tea Party to this atrocity to generalize.

    In reply to DaveH’s question: “What is it that fascinates Liberals about Radical Islamics?”
    I’m unaware that any such fascination existed. Where did you get this impression?

    • Joy

      I think Breivik is nothing more than a 5 star whacko that got up the other morning hating the world more than usual and decided to do something about his personal issues. Its too bad he decided that he had to work them out on other people instead of just himself.

    • Walt

      Here is the link to try to understand why Breivik did what he did.

      http://www.kevinislaughter.com/wp-content/uploads/2083+-+A+European+Declaration+of+Independence.pdf

      This is what he read and apparently motivated him to action.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      When you made the statement “there is no reason to point fingers”, I had to laugh. Have you not followed anything the democratic party has done, every since Obama announced his plans to run for president, way before the 2008 election? Have you followed anything. The guy never mentioned a plan, a platform, divulged a course of action. Never. Nothing. All he did was sit there and pointed fingers and said “look what they did, look what they did”, while the liberal media brought to light all that wasnt right or good, and hid all that was right and good. And now, while they still point fingers, having blamed Bush for being a war monger, yet they started a new war, violating the constitution by not having congressional approval. They have ballooned unemployment from 4.5 to over 11 percent and rising, and in actuallity, we all know it is about 15 percent. Yet they still point the finger and the liberal media lets them get away with it. They accused Bush and the Republicans of spending too much, yet while they were and still are pointing the finger at them, they spent more in 8 months than the Bush admin spent in 8 years. 8 months. Where is the press on this? They are there, moving the milk crate around for Obama to stand on to continue to point his finger and blame others. And I dont know whats worse. Obama pointing the finger, the liberal media letting him get away with it, or the dumb uneducated anti American left wing liberals who believe it. Whatever or whoever it is, they are the deadly trio, and there is no doubt about it. And that is all todays Democrats do, is point the finger and place blame. They have even resorted to now pointing it at each other, and the closer it gets to election, more and more will point their finger at Obama, and Obama will blame them, and they will continue to expose themselves for who they really are to the American public. Many of us already knew, and many of his former followers now know, and many more soon will know. That is why he hasnt a prayer of being re-elected, and we all need to get down on our knee’s and thank God Almighty Himself for that. Amen.

      • http://wwww.tombstonelizardmedia.com TombstoneLizard

        Early in 2009, my family and I started a game called “Obama’s BS Bingo.” It had squares marked with all of his talking points, like “Veterans are my priority,” “We will defend America while we bring our troops home,” “Our allies, the Saudis,” “My healthcare plan will lower premiums,” “Doctors and pharmacies will not be able to deny treatment for pre-existing conditions,” “The right wing is about protecting corporate America, not Americans themselves,” “We must create American jobs,” “The Republican Party wants to cut benefits to Social Security and Medicare,”; along with several variations on his magnus-opus: “The previous administration….,” “I was left holding the bag….” and the all-too familiar “It was Bush’s fault.” Within the first five minutes of opening his mouth, one of us would jump up and shout “B–lsh-t!”
        I should have marketed it as a board game, because it raged through the internet like wildfire when I told my family and friends about it…..

      • mark

        Obama did not spend more in 8 months as much as Bush spent in 8 years. This is a complete and huge fabrication. In his 2 fiscal years: Oct. 2009 to Oct. 2011 Obama and the Congress spent approximately $7 trillion. (The fiscal year of Oct. 1, 2008 to Sept 30, 2009 was George W. Bush’s budget plus $200 billion extra spent on stimulus and auto company loans by Obama. All the rest that year was from Bush’s last submitted budget of Sept. 30 2008). In the 8 years of his presidency President George W. Bush and Congress spent $21.242 trillion dollars. $21.242 trillion dollars is considerably more than the $7 trillion that Obama has spent in his two fiscal budget years and the extra $200 billion he added to Bush’s last budget which makes a grand total of $7.2 trillion. For stats on this see, Source: Budget of the United States FY2009, Historical Tables

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Your numbers are fuzzy, very fuzzy. In fact, you lefties add everything fuzzy. Did you know that during the entire Bush admin, it sucked 622 billion to fund the war. Yet Obama’s first year welfare benefits plundered 888 billion, and what with his new unconstitutional war he started, Im sure he will easily surpass the war monies expended, and his welfare state will grow and grow, as that is what liberal admins do, they take from the working and give to the lazy that wont. Your numbers are wrong, dead wrong. And just how much do you think his health care plan will cost us? More than Bush ever dreamed about spending Pal, and Ill be the first to admit he spent too much. That is the complaint I have about him. And I have often aired it. Yet you liberals cannot admit one bad thing about this wanker, yet he has failed at every turn, and had one blunder after another. Of course, when the liberal press says nothing, a lot of the people dont hear about it, like they did everytime Bush sneezed, millions knew about it, and it was sensationalized even more to smack him down again and again. And they have done this to Sarah Palin, giving her a bad name where it is not deserved, all because of their fear of her. Your figures lie, just like the site you must have gotten them from.

    • DaveH
      • DaveH

        I’m certainly not alone in my perception:
        http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=5083

        • Paul Gardner

          Thanks for the links, DaveH.
          I just skimmed the top parts of each article.
          The first looked like the typical, “these guys are too bleeding heart for me” rant. Liberals will do that. We try to understand what happened and make the most rational judgement we can based on that.
          I don’t think this amounts to fascination in the least.
          Frankly I am sick to death of religious fanaticism regardless the religion: Judeo-Christian, Muslim, Hindi, Zoroastrian, whatever. It is reality,however so we have to deal with it.

          The second was just a long anti liberal rant – didn’t see much mention of Islam except at the top.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      You are a really (offensive words removed).

  • Michael

    Yo Adrian: Your analogy might be confusing to some… let me help. You mean, denying the connection/relation between your Dumbocrat party and Stalin killing over 20 million of his own people is like denying liberalism is a mental disorder. Do you see the nonsense yet? Or should I continue? A nutjob = a nutjob. Why blame someone else?

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      That is what they do, blame others. Im surprised they havent tried to cook up blaming Bush for the crucifixion yet, as they have and continue to blame him for everything and anything.

  • Techheadache

    If we are able to get out of the mess in this country without an armed revolution it will be the most amazing thing I know of in history with the exception of maybe what I will call “one incident”.

    • Walt

      You are more absolutely right than you realize. It will also be a racial bloodbath. A bloodbath that will make the 600,000 lives lost in our last civil war look miniscule in comparison.

    • mark

      We will never get out of “the mess in this country.” We will just continue to muddle through as we have throughout all of our 236 years. It is called living in a democratic society. Every year there is some crisis that is going to end U.S. society. But in every single one of the 236 years, somehow we always continue to survive, proving all the doomsayers, right and left, dead wrong. That is what makes us such a great society. And historically we have had numerous crisis far worse than the current one, the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the 1837-44 Depression, the Civil War, the 1873-79 Depression, the 1893-1897 Depression, the post-World War I Depression and Red Scare, the Great Depression 1929-1940, the Cold War with thousands of Soviet nuclear warheads targetted on the U.S. every waking day, the 1960s turbulence and Vietnam War, the Watergate Crisis, the 1970s stagflation and gas lines, the Iranians Hostage humiliation, the 9/11 attacks, the 2007-8 housing and banking collapse followed by a deep recession that we are only now slowly climbing out of. We have had much worse crises, and survived them all just as we will survive this one. No Chicken Little, the Sky IS NOT falling. This too will pass.

      • mark

        Oh I forgot to include World War II with 400,000 U.S. dead and 1.1 million U.S. wounded.

        • Wendy

          I do believe for all those dead and mamed, the SKY DID FALL.

          • mark

            Despite and because of their noble sacrifice, the United States came back stronger than ever. As we will when we get out of this recession.

          • DaveH

            That is the problem with collectivism, Mark, they don’t consider the individuals. But like Wendy tried to point out, the individual victims would probably feel differently if they had a second choice.
            Collectives, no matter how they try to paint themselves differently, are still just a group of individuals, all of whom are concerned most with their own separate lives.
            There is no greater moral goal than that of Individual Liberty.

        • Wendy

          I pray you are correct Mark.

      • Walt

        I sounds like you want Americans to go back to sleep Mark, like everything is OK, nothing unusual is happening, “pay no attention to tha man behind the curtain”. Well things are not OK and they will only get worse unless people wake up from their Kool-aid induced dreamlike state of mind. The socialist and communists are WIDE AWAKE and cunningly planning to take over this country. You sir are performing a great dis-service to this country by such postings.

        • mark

          No, but I have lived long enough to know that the current recession is not the end of America or the end of the world, despite all the suffering it has imposed. I remember in early 1983 when Ronald Reagain was president we had 10.8% unemployment but we came back. In 1932 we had 25% unemployment and we came back despite far worse suffering than today. I have faith in American and am not one of these gloom and doom types that make ludicrous claims like that Adolf Hitler is now sitting in our White House, etc.

          • Hazmae

            Mark
            That’s what the Romans believed. Their world could never end so don’t try to stop it.

          • Elevenarrows

            I think what you might be missing in those examples of American come-backs, Mark, is that most Americans didn’t even have mortgages during the Great Depression. Most households did not carry the debt burden they do today. Children and adults were respectful of their fellow-man. Teachers weren’t having sex with students and students were shooting each other. There was a basic, moral fiber in society that is missing today. If actual numbers were known, unemployment is assumed to be around 22% from what I’ve heard. Neighbors aren’t inclined to help each other out. As evidenced during Hurricane Katrina, the dregs of society are alive and well and ready to loot and plunder and “capitalize” on a crisis should it occur. Most educated students of history realize that these times are troubling because the basic infrastructure of society has drastically changed since those other times you mentioned. For Pete’s sake, we watch our leader apologize to the world for our nation. We don’t even have national pride anymore. Fortunately for you, if and when society collapses financially, there are still those of us who DO have a moral compass who are stockpiling more than our own family needs because of all the heads-in-the-sand who will come begging from us in their times of need.

          • DaveH

            No doubt there were those who like you, Mark, were saying those things before Hitler grabbed power, or before Lenin grabbed power, or before Mao grabbed power, or before Hugo Chavez grabbed power.
            Some of us prefer not to repeat history.

          • professor

            Mark,

            The people living in this country, today, are completely different than in the past! “Citizens” were proud to be Americans, and were of one-goal. They were strong independents, that loved “God and Country,” individual liberty, hard-work… and integrity was expected to be had by everyone. “Free-loaders” were frowned upon, and families took care of “their own.” That is why America could bounce back, her people were her greatest asset! Compare then to our diverse population of today. Many of our residence have no allegiance to America. Many more, expect to live off other people’s labor, not their own… Can only half of the people in this country work hard enough to pull the entire population through a crisis?? We may find out exactly what “half of us can or cannot do!”

        • Tazio2013

          And you sir are no doubt missing Glenn Beck on Fox Noise!

      • just little ole me

        Mark, may I respectably point something out. We have never in history had so much going on at once. The whole globe of earth is in turmoil. We have had riots in Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt, etc. Nations just itching to attack Israel (the little Satan is the president of Iran calls them and we(the US) are the big Satan). Economies around the globe that are failing or are going to fail (including ours probably at some point). If economies fail you get a lot of hungry people and it will not be pretty. People do things really ugly when we are hungry, example the Donner Party. Disasters happening left and right. Political parties fighting back and forth. People playing class warfare. Iran is gaining nuclear weapons while we are sleeping and doing nothing in the name of trying to be friends with an enemy who hates us because of their beliefs about bringing in their 12th Inman. Don’t misunderstand me there are many good peaceful Muslims but there are those who want to hurt us.

        http://www.bereanpublishers.com/Cults/Muslims/Islam%27s%2012th%20Iman.htm

        Never in history has it climaxed as it is now. We should not be so arrogant to think that America is not subject to the laws of economy and so forth that we can avoid such tragedies if we do nothing to stop our decline. The Roman Empire felt it was invincible to such things and they fell. Let us not repeat history let us restore America to its values and logic. We are running around like we are superman and will not get hurt. We should be afraid very afraid for our country and try to bring things back to sanity. Let us stop the fighting and bickering for a start and work together on saving our country. If we keep on this path we will not survive as we see American today. I believe a small portion will carry on in the US but it will be much smaller than it is today. I believe this because I believe in the constitution and many of its people. I believe America is changing and we must chose between right and wrong, not left and right. I will stand with right and I will stand with my constitution and flag.

        • mark

          No, today is nothing compared to World War II. Nearly 100 million men in uniform, fighting all over the globe. 60 million deaths from bombing, machinegunning, artillery, gas chambers, and incendiaries. And don’t forget those 60 million dead were from a global population of 1.5 billion – not the 7 billion of today. World War I was also much worse than today. So was the Great Depression(not to trivialize the economic suffering of today). We now have a global media that instantly puts every riot, insurgency, ugly crime, and small scale war in our living rooms which gives us a greater sense that the world is falling apart than our parents or grandparents had. The world has always been in chaos and struggle. Today is bad, no one would deny that, but not nearly as bad as other periods in our history. Look at what the Civil War? 630,000 combat deaths. Civilian deaths from disease, hunger, and dislocation in that struggle was not even tabulated. Some think it may have been close to 150,000 if you include the massive hunger in the South after the war and the deaths of slaves who no one even bothered to consider. That amounts to nearly 3% of the U.S. 1860 population. This would be the equivalent of the United States today losing 10 million dead.

          • Elevenarrows

            I’m not saying today is worse NOW. I’m saying the potential is for this crisis to be MUCH worse before it is over…due to all the reasons I stated earlier.

          • Cawmun Cents

            Except for the fact that this struggle is in its infancy and not its decline I might agree with you.

          • DaveH

            And what do all those things have in common, Mark? Big Government is what. Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you an Advocate of Big Government, Mark?

          • JeffH

            DaveH, would you please correct your spelling…it’s “mark” lower case or small “m”, wouldn’t want to confuse him anymore than you have to.

          • just little ole me

            Mark that is the end game you are speaking about with World War II and the depression, past tense. You have already seen the end of it and you DO not know what is coming. True I am partly going on gut feeling and I will not apologize to anyone for that. I would rather be prepared, think the worst and hope for the best. I pray that I am wrong. We haven’t reached the peak of this yet. We are in the beginning of this crisis. Anyone who thinks we are at the end of this is crazy. I pity those who are not ready and wise to the situation. The world has been at war before but we didn’t have the weapons we have today nor the technology. WE can’t agree on the debt ceiling (I blame both democrats and republicans). We have people who believe they must bring in chaos to bring in their great Inman. We have not had all economies/mostly falling apart as we are today. We have not had the hatred to the degree we do now. America was a strong supporter of Israel it doesn’t seem to be so much that anymore. People have left God and are pushing him out. People forget there are those worse than Hitler like Mao Zedong. Yes he has killed millions more but no one cares to see it. Leaders are killing people to stay in power in greater numbers than many have before. There are many leaders today that want a one globe order and I am sure they have in mind they will be that dictator. The dollar is declining fast and disasters are wiping out crops, therefore less food coming our war. Tornado and floods have wiped out much of the crops that really matter. We are burning our corn for ethanol. Countries are becoming angry with us for the corn because it is one of their staple foods, just fueling their anger towards us. I live in Idaho and our potato crops are suffering because of to much rain. We will have very little for next year because of needing potatoes for seeds as well. America’s morals and values are at a great decline. During the depression we were able to start producing things we don’t hardly do that today. People didn’t cry to the government for help as much as they do today. We were a little more self sufficient. We import most everything we get. We are no longer an industrious nation. People who invent have most of their inventions put together in places such as China. What do we have to fall back on? We are waring on Iran, Afghanistan, Libya. Where to next? The Muslim brotherhood (an extreme side of Muslims not the peaceful ones) has a candidate who is pulling highest in their poles for their next leader. People want spending cut but they are not willing to have anything of their cuts. What has happened to us? We use to be people who would self learn and not depend on schools to this degree to teach us. Benjamin Franklin was mostly self taught as well as George Washington and others. We live like drones, many are not seeking out truth. We want to be friends to everyone and forget their are those who have made up their mind to hate us and nothing we can say will change that. Perhaps you yourself find that you want to avoid anything that doesn’t fit your opinion or agenda. People are uncomfortable about admitting fault and are so easy to point to someone else as the problem. We have always had things like this but never never to this extent. We are a selfish nation but thankfully there are many who are not and understand personal responsibility and first look at themselves before they point a finger at another. I have made my share of mistakes and have tried to fix the wrongs I have caused. I am awake more than ever. We are slow to forgive. Forgive doesn’t mean to trust right away. Trust must be rebuilt. Please I know this will not change your mind because you are so fixed on your feelings and agenda. You only wish to strike at those who do not agree with you. We are a nation of opinions and you are entitled to yours. I know this will not wake you up but I hope others will have a more open heart.

      • Jay

        mark, you are a poor student of history. There have been many societies that have destroyed themselves throughout history. And i’m willing to bet that there were a few overconfident morons that have stated what you’ve just stated: We will just continue to muddle through as we have throughout all of our 236 years. It is called living in a democratic society. Every year there is some crisis that is going to end U.S. society. But in every single one of the 236 years, somehow we always continue to survive, proving all the doomsayers, right and left, dead wrong. That is what makes us such a great society.

  • viper

    You would think that people would see this for what it is more lies. What next the Tea party started the Chicago fire and Mrs O’clock Leary never owned a COW??? These people on the left proved one thing that any one with a 12th grade education can be a demacratic Pres does obama have a high school degree and how many layer’s does it have and why is from a school in Chicago??

    • mark

      “These people on the left proved one thing that any one with a 12th grade education can be a demacratic Pres does obama have a high school degree and how many layer’s does it have and why is from a school in Chicago??” If you can write a sentence like the one above, how much education did you have? Did you perhaps also attend a Chicago school?

  • M.D.

    If the shoe fits…
    The Tea Party are those not willing to compromise at all and are so cemented to their ideals and hatred of Govt they are willing to destroy everything. (Sounds a bit like the 9/11 bombers, doesn’t it?)

    • Joy

      Another misconception: Tea Party people do not hate the Government as a whole: they just don’t particularly care for OBama and his socialist-Sal-Alynski approach to dismantling the Constitution.

      • M.D.

        Sounds like a true regurgitation of every right wing talk show host I’ve heard lately. Did you know that under Eisenhower (War hero, Republican, avid free market capitalist) the top tax rate was 91%?
        Probably not. Guess he wasn’t a real American.

        • Robert Smith

          And! American had huge economic growth.

          Corpoorations hadn’t started sending jobs overseas. They didn’t get special tax breaks…

          Rob

          • Cawmun Cents

            Do you remember how well the world was developed back then?How could the jobs have gone overseas back then?You had to be ultra rich jet setters just to travel to asia when Ike was president.Today you can travel rather cheaply by comparison.The world at large wasnt developed enough to send those jobs overseas back then.But you leave that part our as if it doesnt matter to your point.
            You see…leaving out pertinent information while making quick quips about various events doesnt show your education very well either.You do that often and it makes you look ignorant whether you know it or not.
            Tactics show where you get your education.Some are well informed,others use talking points,but liberal idealogues do exactly what you do.Make snide commentary,and hope that the person on the other end will be dazzled by your brilliance.But most often they are baffled by your bovine scatology.You are adept at that particular science.
            Is the glass half full or half empty?Actions speak louder than words.Which action do you enjoy more regarding the glass?Filling it,or emptying it?I am more of a patron than a tender,so I think the glass is half empty.
            But when it comes to idealists,they are usually full.Of bovine scatology.No matter how much they try to sling their contents at others,they are still full of bovine scatology.If the shoe fits…wear it.But you stepped in it and you are wandering around,pissing folks off with the stink of it.
            If you tread where the grass seems greener,you may step in fertilizer more often than not.That is true both in the natural and relational universe.But it is a point of science that is seldom discussed by the academic.Why?Well,naturally if you carry your own supply of bovine scatology inherently within you,you dont feel the need to watch where you tread.Please just dont tread on me.I dont feel the need to force folks to go to where the grass is greener.I hear that it is a place where landmines abound.That is the reason why I will never be a liberal.I know when I have stepped in”it”because of the smell.But if I had a preponderence of it alrerady in me,I probably wouldnt recognize the odor for what it is.Liberalism.-CC.

          • Average Joe

            Cawmun Cents,

            The problem with Liberals is that they are like the story of the two Russians….”Looks like Dogsh*t….”,they won’t be satisfied that it truly is dogsh*t until they actually taste it for themselves…..Just sayin’.

        • Joy

          You sound like the atypical leftie that can’t stand someone else with a different opinion from yours. Thats what 99.9% of the problem with the left is today: you’re so terrifed of difference from your own little world you freak every time someone contradicts you. Thats why you are all so blindy following Obama: thinking outside your personal box just boggles your mind too much. Don’t worry: we’ll take care of you just like we’ve been taking care of the rest of you dreamers now for 236 years. It’ll be alright.

          • Karolyn

            Joy- Have you read some of the responses by conservatives to liberal posts? It goes both ways. All I have to do is state a FACT, and you can bet somebody like Bob will come back with his hate and vitriol. It doesn’t matter what I post. Even if I posted something I agreed with, there are those people who would still find some ulterior motive or reason to denigrate me because I have some liberal views.

          • BigBadJohn

            Karolyn,

            You hit the nail right on the head….

            I am more conservative than liberal, however I am more of centrist than anything else, I look at both sides of all issues and ask questions.

            For that, most people around here jump on my comments as if I am a welfare loving liberal. For the simple reason that they hate for me to even question their beliefs. This is not unique to the extreme right or the extreme left – they are more similar in that regard then they care to admit.

            When people start talking about “the man behind the curtain” There are actually two men behind the curtain one on the extreme right and one on the extreme left. Here is the part that people seem to miss – BOTH sides want the same thing – consolidation of power. The difference is where should that power be, Central Government or Monopolistic corporations?

          • Cawmun Cents

            Yeah…nothing shows true patriotism like sitting on the fence,Humpty Dumpty.-CC.

        • 45caliber

          MD:

          You are correct. It was 91%. BUT … that doesn’t mean that they collected that amount and it doesn’t mean that this was good for the country. It was set up to pay off the war debt. But at about 35% tax it becomes more feasible to hunt out the loopholes. It is known that when that occurs the actual amount of taxes COLLECTED goes DOWN. (See some of Thomas Sowell’s arcticles.) So quoting this high tax rate means literally nothing as far as today’s problem is concerned. What it does mean is that the tax rates go UP big time on the middle class but the rich class pays even less. Is that what you want?

        • http://Personalliberty Tony

          M.D.:
          Right on man!! It’s good to see someone with a clear head on this website. I mean sir, these people are whacked. I know i shouldn’t feel that way but listening to the nonsense written here, it’s embarrassing for me to admit to being a conservative. Also, kudos to
          big bad John. You’re correct brother in condemning these childish
          Mccarthyite views from the Flea baggers here. Hey Time, if i’m a maggot, then you’re a cock roach or a blood sucking bed bug. TA,TA!!

          • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Tony,

            If your previous posts are any indication, I’m not sure you are a Conservative or understand what that means. And if you were truly Conservative, you wouldn’t feel the need to use the pejorative you use in reference to the Tea Party.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • libertytrain

            Nicely said Mr. Livingston…

          • http://Personalliberty Tony

            To Mr. Livingston:
            I’m indeed a conservative. Well, i’ll say i’m a fiscal conservative.
            I support cutting taxes across the board, even having a flat 12-15%
            income tax. Those who make more pay more, those who make less pay less. In addition, i’m against gov. interference as any rational
            person would. Plus, i’m a strong supporter of the constitution. Especially, the second amendment. This is a democratic society, therefore , citizens should have the right to bear arms plus be able to walk the streets. Where, i differ is from these extremist views you people take here. I mean, what i read is, constant attacks on Latino or Muslim immigrants, gay people, or any other folks that don’t agree with the perverse views that these Flea baggers support.
            Good example, when Lost in Paradise says,” if it’s not white, it’s not right”, what does that say. Granted, it’s his constitutional liberty to say that but this goes way to far. How would you feel if i said in my post “If it’s not Black stand back, or if it’s not Brown don’t stick around”? There would be an uproar by these other posters.
            This is suppose to be an organization that supports liberty along with the constitution. This is the reason i joined, for that’s what i thought was going to be discussed in this forum. I didn’t expect to see/read info. that i thought i would only see at a Klan meeting. Forgive me for this assessment, but this is what i see. Therefore, really evaluate what is being promoted here. Thanks!! Tony

          • JeffH

            Tony, I don’t think so…McCain says he’s a conservative too…just sayin’ you can say whatever you want but???

          • professor

            I don’t know of any Conservative that uses the term, “Tea Baggers,” when referring to members of the Tea Party!!

          • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Tony,

            If you are truly Conservative, then you must understand that the Tea Party advocates lower taxes, less government (one that abides by the Constitution) and freedom to make their own decisions about their lives. If you are as you say, then you and the Tea Party agree on the basic principles. Again you use a pejorative when you refer to members of the Tea Party. It’s not as disgusting as the one you used before, but still not representative of someone who is a true conservative.

            You write: “…what i read is, constant attacks on Latino or Muslim immigrants, gay people, or any other folks that don’t agree with the perverse views that these Flea baggers support” How are your slurs on Tea Party members any different?

            You ask: ” How would you feel if i said in my post “If it’s not Black stand back, or if it’s not Brown don’t stick around”?” I would feel sad for you, but I would not censor your post.

            You say you people are engaging in constant attacks on gays, muslims, etc. What does that mean? None of our authors have done this. As to the commenters, they express their own opinions and are free to do so as long as they don’t violate the terms of use policy.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

            P.S. We do not live in a Democracy, though the political elites would have you believe that. We live in a representative Republic.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Well Tony, its like this. If you dont support the Tea Party, you dont support America. That is what the Tea Party is all about, making America, America again. You know Tony, “We the People”. Well, maybe you dont. For you to insult them, is an insult to the United States of America. People like you are the problem in this country. You refuse to be part of the solution. You want the same old same old, politics as usual that these liberal jack-asses are playing right now. And this is the most anti-American administration I have ever seen in my life. Im not in the Tea Party yet, but unlike most of you liberals, I thoroughly investigate something before I buy into it. I am liking what I see, and I am liking what I hear, and I am seeing actions backing up these words Im hearing. Very, very American, and very appealing. I also like very much the things the Libertarians bring to the table. And like the Tea Party, I am doing my own investigation of them. Unfortunately, around here, most of the guys that want to run on their ticket are pretty whacked out dudes. There is one good guy. On the national scene, I think Rand Paul is a good dude. But being a Christian, I cannot fully support them, as from every indication Ive have seen, locally and nationally, there is no God to them. And, as a Christian, I cannot support that, right or wrong. I wont do it. Its obvious the democrats are that way, or they would all be for murdering babies in their mothers stomachs, or applauding sexual deviant behavior and acting like its normal. But the Tea Party seems to be the real deal, and for you to attack them, shows your total lack of either an education, of any moral fabric, or of any American patriotism what so ever, or maybe all 3 combined. I dont know, but I do know this, it isnt right.

        • OB1

          Most of the people I know are independents and do not watch much TV period. They have REAL lives. They work within their own communities, know local business owners, seniors veterans and the disabled. How much cable news do you watch? I met an older woman the other day when I was out walkin. Asked her “weel, what do you think about granny being tossed off a cliff in a wheelchair”? She told me about the great depression, how her family got through it, and how her husband had fought in WW11 and how her brother had died in WW11 and how. Basically, to put it in a nut shell, she said I lived a good life, did the best, my children are OK, and GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH! Mark, read a good book lately? Maybe ask a senior or a vet for one. I wonder what JFK the strong anti-communist anti-socialist who’s brother Bobby fought the mob and the teamsters would think of Obama and the democrats (progressives) of today? Maybe you should pick up a few copies of JFK’s books. If you can’t get any at the library, ask a senior; I’m sure they’ll be able to help you.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Having been born and raised a democrat, I assure you, both JFK and RFK would be running today as Republicans. They would not associate with a party that embraces what the Democrats today embrace. Not a chance of it. And that is why I am not a democrat anymore either.

    • Linda

      Conservatives don’t hate govt. We hate out-of-control-taking-over-our-lives-making-us-serfs-to-the-govt govt. You know – kinda how the revolution got started and the constitution developed. You must’ve heard about that somewhere, maybe.
      Anarchists hate govt, and there’s a very thin line between them and most people who call themselves ‘liberals’.
      Be honest – are you a communist? Do you believe in the Marxist doctrine? If so, then you are a Progressive (no such thing as communism in the modern world).
      Do you belive in personal liberty, personal responsibility and a tightly controlled govt by the populace & the Law? Then you are a conservative.
      Being conservative doesn’t make me mean and uncaring. It doesn’t make me unconcerned about the environment and peoples’ health and welfare (state of being – not the system). In fact it makes me even more so, because Conservatives think long term and about consequences.
      The very fact that you think conservatives are some ‘boogey man’ just shows how ignorant you are about Americanism. Ignorance is not bliss and you’re not stupid. Yes there is such a thing, you just were never taught that in school (if you’re under the age of 50). I hope that someday you at least learn about the different types of systems from a neutral source and then chose where you fit – instead of following a herd. most ‘liberals’ are very surprised to discover they really ARE conservatives.
      Some discover they are progressives (communists). Find your true fit.

      • Karolyn

        Why do we have to fit into any label? The writing of some people on all sides contributes to my not wanting to be allied with any faction, although I feel most comfortable with liberals. I believe what I believe and don’t like beig labelled. I can find views from all factions that I agree with. That’s a big problem in this world; people not wanting to bend, listen or give a little. The old “my way or the highway.”

        • Bob

          Karolyn: Of course you feel most comfortable with the lieberals – you are a tax-consuming parasite like the lieberals. You are also as full of hate as anyone on this site even though you lie and deny when it comes to that. Your ealier post about hate-mongering weirdos described you perfectly although you could complete the description by adding liar and fool.

          • Karolyn

            Coming from the kind of hate-mongering Christians! I am so glad the Christian people I know are not like you! They are REAL Christians!

          • Karolyn

            I meant “king” instead of “kind.”

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Compromise. Thats what the Democrats continue to do with Islamic terrorists. Compromise. With nations that hate us. Compromise. With most of them having to pay their taxes. Compromise. With them telling the truth. Compromise. Im sick of compromise man. Give the the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Give me someone who will stick to their ideals and not compromise what is good and wholesome. If that is what the Tea Party will bring, not compromising their principles and staying fast on what is good and right for this country, then by God I will support them every which way that I can. You can take your compromise, and move to Mexico or somewhere with it. Im not compromising my freedom as an American, not to you left wing liberals or anyone, and if you all keep pushing this anti American rhetoric down our throats, we will soon have a revolution in this country, and I guarantee you that you left wing liberal pacifist appeasers will be in for a hard, hard time my friend, because your not willing to stand up and fight for what is right. You want everything done for you and given to you. You want those in charge to take from those who have and give to those who dont care to work for it. Your mentality is bankrupt and broken, and when we reach the point where we have had enough, tell me, who in the hell are you liberals going to call on to save you, when it is us conservatives right now who protect and defend you, and keep you free to give you the freedom to run your mouth and spew your anti American, anti freedom vitrial. But there is coming a day, when you wont be able to do that anymore, and you can blame it on people like yourself and the left wing liberal think tank for it. Fact. Stamp it.

      • Void1972

        Beberoni
        Very well stated!

    • Elevenarrows

      I think I need to clarify for you, M.D., that we DO hate government that is in direct opposition to American values as outlined in the Constitution. Therefore, we are willing to fight to defend the Constitution so that life as we know it doesn’t end for America’s future children. We view leadership that subverts the Constitution as domestic enemies. Our own founding documents demand that we throw off such bonds…

    • DaveH

      Compromise? Give it a rest, M.D. You are not on a Liberal board here. Most of the people here know that the Liberal idea of Compromise is to offer to take $10,000 from each of us, and then “compromise” to take only $5,000 from each of us.
      What we need is a downsizing of Government, but we can make a safe wager that the Liberals won’t be willing to Compromise on that.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        How right you are Dave. I think as a training thing, you know, to make sure their children are brought up with the proper liberal democrat think tank thinking, that when the libs take their kids out on Halloween, they should as soon as they get home, take half their candy from them, and make them give it to some kid that was too lazy to go out and trick or treat, you know, just because they didnt feel like it. Then explain to their kids, that this is how the democrat party works, and they should learn to embrace it, because its really helping out those poor kids who are too lazy to go out and actually put on a costume and walk door to door to get their candy. Yeah, its kind of like that.

  • Tazio2013

    FYI, all you neo-conservative PLD readers, crusading christian clowns and fox noise fans need to know that Breivik is a bona fide islamophobe and practitioner of white wing radical christianism. Yes, I’m aware that truth and reality are difficult for your ilk to handle. Have a nice day.

    • libertytrain

      was this comment supposed to be an intelligent statement from the left, or more mindless incoherent ramblings –

    • Gary

      Tazio,
      I doubt you know what truth is.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      If you had a clue what Christianity was about, or even who Jesus Christ is, you would realize what a stupid, uneducated statement you just made. Are you aware of the very tenants of Christianity at all? Do you understand that Jesus’s whole reason for coming here the first time, was to serve man? That he willingly gave up His life, and put his wants and needs out of the way, and instead put the wants and needs of others first? That He said, “There is no greater gift to give than to lay down your life for a friend”. And He laid down his life for all of us. And yet you would say that this hate filled murderer represents Christendom? Do you realize, to those of us who know Christ, and are true Christians, that you have made a most foolish statement and have shown you know nothing about which you speak? Yes it is true. You have made a totally false statement, and I know it, many others know it, and God knows it. You really should research and find out about things, before you open your mouth and prove your ignorance to all. And in case you dont know, ignorance is just that, you dont know. Its not saying your dumb or stupid, its saying you dont know. And its obvious, you just dont know, or you wouldnt have written such a preposterous thing. Have a great day.

      • Tazio2013

        When one throws a rock into a pack of dogs the dog that yelps the loudest is the dog that got hit by the rock. And for the record, allow me to re-iterate, practitioners of white wing radical christianism are completely ignorant of truth and objective reality.

        • Joy

          When one throws a rock into a pack of liberals, it immeditely triggers a committe to sit down and discuss why the rock was thrown and who should get the blame for it reguardless of the reason it was thrown inthe first place.

          • Cawmun Cents

            “Liberals will always cast the first stone…..it is part of their secular humanistic approach to evolution.”-CC.

        • DaveH

          You are a bigot, Tazio.
          The acts by one man, or even a small group of men, do not represent the principles of any group with which they might be affiliated. That would only be true if the Actions of that one man or small group were advocated by the group with which they might be affiliated.
          Speaking of that, Tazio, the Liberals do as a group advocate the theft of other peoples’ money, so it is safe to say that Liberals as a group are thieves. And Liberals do as a group advocate forcing their personal choices on other people, so it is safe to say that Liberals as a group are pushy controlling people.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Jesus Christ is the truth Tazio. If you dont know that, then the truth is no where in you or near you. That is the truth. And you go ahead and get yourself all comfy in bed with the muslims, and dont complain and blame it on Bush when they come to cut your head off, because its people like you that empower them and give them the resolve to keep killing Americans. People like you who reject the truth. Like I said, you dont know Jesus, you dont know the truth, because He is the truth Pal. And the good thing is, you will get your chance to tell Him just how you feel one day. I would like to be a fly on the wall to hear it, but I dont think that is going to happen. So instead, I will pray for you that you have your eyes and ears opened before its too late for you, because as you seek to cut down Christians, we pray for you, that good things come to you. But you dont see that now, do you? Dont speak about the Truth, when you dont know the Truth.

    • Elevenarrows

      Tax, not sure Christianism is a word, but as a genuine Christian, I can assure you Christianity does not teach or condone White Supremacy. Just as all black people are not liberal (yes, it is true…I know wonderful, conservative black Tea Party members), all people who claim to be Christians are not.

      • Elevenarrows

        Oops! I meant, Taz! not tax.

        • DaveH

          Kind of the same thing.

  • Karolyn

    Playing the blame-game solves nothing, and that is what we do here day after day by using generalizations with regard to each faction. Thre are some extremists in all camps.

    I watched Breivak’s video yesterday. Here is a brief summary on YouTube. I can’t find the original video right now.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=turbLtxuWVI

    • mark

      You are absolutely right, Karolyn. A legitimate conservative says we need to do something to control illegal immigration and extremist individuals on the left will call him another Hitler. Likewise a legitimate liberal calls for more federal funding of education, and a right-wing hothead will call him another Stalin wanting to indoctrinate and massacre millions of Americans. It is all of this crazy blog talk that poisons legitimate political dialogue in which we can all argee to disagree – with respect for one another – on any number of issues. I disagree with many of the opinions on this blog but I do not demonize the people who write them. As long as people do not call for violence or incite racial or religious hatred, I have not problem with considering arguments that differ from mine. This is what political discourse in a democratic society is all about. We should never tar our opponents with a broad brush comparing them to horrible mass murderers of the past or present, like this Norwegian maniac, who all thinking, caring human beings, whether liberal or conservative, rightly condemn for their atrocious crimes against humanity.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I am against more federal funding for schools. For years, they have spent more and more and more, and the educations have gotten worse, and worse and worse. So more money isnt the answer. Teachers and students need held responsible for themselves, and in the public schools, neither are done. Thats why Im totally for the voucher system and private schools. There is a reason they stand head and shoulders over the public schools. If a teacher isnt doing their job, they are gone. If a student is failing, they are told they are failing and are told to pick it up, and the the teacher has an interest in that student learning, not just giving them a passing mark to meet some government criteria. And it used to be only those with enough money could use private schools, but with the voucher system, everyone can have the opportunity to decide which school your child goes to. That way when you have schools that are total failures, the administration and teachers running them, will be held responsible and make an effort to improve, or they are done. Im all for rewarding success and punishing failure, not rewarding failure and punishing success, and that is what has happened in the schools. There are even groups that want to stop awarding validictorian and salutatorian honors to students, because they say it makes others feel bad. Boo hoo hoo. Reward those that succeed. That used to be the American way when this country was strong and stood head and shoulders about the rest of the world. Its when we started teaching our children in school to strive for mediocrity, that we have gone down hill. One cannot deny that.

        • pegasis

          The department of Education, as well as most of the other entities (dept of Energy, etc) are all illegal and unconstitutional entities. Read the constitution Article I section 8 states what the government (congress) is responsible for. NOWHERE in the constitution does it give the FEDERAL government the say over education, energy, or ANY SOCIAL programs. Those all fall under The X ammendment to the constitution, which places such programs FULLY on each individual state.

          Section. 8.
          The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
          To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
          To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
          To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
          To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
          To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
          To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
          To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
          To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
          To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
          To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
          To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
          To provide and maintain a Navy;
          To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
          To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
          To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
          To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;–And
          To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

          Amendment X
          The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

      • Cawmun Cents

        “ALL THE KINGS HORSES AND ALL THE KINGS MEN,WONT BE ABLE TO HOIST YOUR BROKE ASS BACK ON TO THE FENCE AGAIN.”-CC.

      • DaveH

        Mark says “I disagree with many of the opinions on this blog but I do not demonize the people who write them”.
        Is your tongue in your cheek, Mark? Your comments are full of personal attacks, condescension, ridicule, etc.
        Did you buy Karolyn’s magic mirror? Come on, be honest.

        • Karolyn

          Geez, Dave, I think Mark was remarkably civil given some of the responses he got. I just don’t get it! And, yes, I do admit I lose it from time to time; and I do not support people like Robert Smith (Although he does make sense at times, I don’t like his delivery.) You talk to me about my rose-colored glasses. It seems as though you wear blinders.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Another pious fence sitter.

    • Bob

      You do quite well at calling people names – names like weirdo and hate monger. I guess it is ok for tax-sucking, lying, lieberal, parasites such as yourself and mark to induldge in name calling, but not ok for the productive, truth speaking people like the conservatives on this site. Typical lieberal.

      • Karolyn

        Bob – Do you ever actually LISTEN to yourself? :-)

  • martin

    uhuh….no connection at all to american right wing conservatives….riiiiiigggght

    read his manifesto first before you make yourself look like an idiot….

    tired of lazy journalism. if you are going to post something at least take time to research it…

    • Walt

      This so called Breivik Manifesto…could you please explain why the author is listed as Andrew Berwick, London, England 2011?

      How is it that this 1518 page document is now linked by the mdia to Breivik, other than perhaps he read the document and agreed with its content.

      • Karolyn

        Apparently, he used the name Berwick online.

        • Karolyn

          It’s the English version of his name.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      If anything, his thinking is right along the think tank of the democrats. Always do things to try to blame others. Exactly.

  • singinginthetherain

    how many other sites has adrian commented on ? on every site he was told to by the soros minions.
    adrian u r a useful idiot.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Liberals are fascinated with muslim extremists, because they think very much like they do. Liberals believe that what they say and they do and they think is right, and that everyone should think like they do and do as they say, and they are right in line with the thinking of the Taliban, Al Quaida, and other terrorist Islamic groups. In fact, they have even approached and are try to take legal steps to silence the opposition, via trying to shut down Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, and other conservative talk radio hosts. Yes, the liberal democrats have much, much in common with Islamic terrorists. They both think they are right and screw everyone else who is different. Very, very similar indeed.

    • Karolyn

      Beberoni – Long time no “see.” You don’t notice the conservatives, republicans, libertarians posting here trying to silence any opposing views? Telling people to leave the country, slandering them, indicating they should be hung, shot, etc?

      • libertytrain

        I do notice the “Alex” types posting here – doing what you are accusing others of doing. He definitely acts through his words like he would like all of the right dead and/or buried.

        • Al Sieber

          libertytrain, I second that.

          • Al Sieber

            Also Liberty, I heard Judge Roll was assassinated because he wouldn’t vote in Obama’s favor?? and Giffords shooting was another way to chip away at the 2nd amendment. I hear these rumors here in Ariz.. after that they brought in operation “Fast and Furious” and got caught.

          • libertytrain

            I recall reading something like that about the good Judge as well. Perhaps there were those that didn’t appreciate their good relationship. It is peculiar.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Some individuals are always misled, no matter what their affiliations in life are. Even some “so called” Christians are misled, but they arent who they say they are. But on a whole, the democrats do think its ok for them to own ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC and others, and put out there whatever they want to, but they dont think that Fox News and talk radio should be allowed to have an opposing view, even though I do more than not, see these talk radio hosts and Fox News invite on all liberals to discuss and talk, whereas the liberal news will not, and I repeat, they will not let a conservative come on and discuss things fairly, without twisting around and cutting them off. All I can do is call it as it happens, as the truth will always prevail. But some people will carry hate and vulgarity and attack with them no matter what side they are on. I know I have seen many pretty savagely attack you on these posts, and though you and I often disagree on our political philosophy, I choose to disagree with you as a adult, and Im not going to insist you think as I do, and I fully support your right to think as you see fit, as long as you dont insist I think as you do. Its called construction dialogue, and Im glad as 2 adults we can do that. This is still the United States of America, and that is what made us great, people who are different and saw things different, coming together as one country to try to do what was best for all the people. Have a good day Karolyn.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        So why are you on this site if you think that some of the posters are not to your liking. The posters don’t appear to have done you any harm as you are still posting here.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Because I am an American. And that is what makes this country great. People who are different and think different, and bounce ideas off of each other and come up with something that is better for everyone. That is how it is supposed to be. But being a liberal, I see your stance, that you think if I dont agree with you , I dont belong. You need to join the human race, and dump that destructive thinking. It is through construction dialogue that things get accomplished my friend, not by the “Im right and your wrong so Im not even going to listen to you” attitude that the left keeps displaying. That gets you no where, other than elected out of office at the earliest chance, as recently witness by over 60 being voted out in 2010, and more to come in 2012. Of course, that is fact, it happened. What else can I say. Your entitled to your opinion, and Im entitled to mine. If either one is like, they stay around and people keep them around. If they are not, they are voted out. That is, if we the people do our job. Any questions?

    • mark

      The overwhelming majority of liberals have nothing in common or any sympathy whatsoever with Islamic extremists and terrorists. Likewise the overwhelming majority of conservatives and libertarians have nothing in common or no sympathy for the various right-wing violent extremists such as this Norweigian maniac, the KKK, Aryan Nation, the Skinheads, etc. And thank God for this – on both sides! That is why there is so little political violence in the United States. On websites lots of crazy, over-the-top insults and some calls for violence or the threat of violence are made, but the vast majority are never acted upon. It is all just over-emotional, at time, quite irrational talk, as is most of the discoures on talk radio. I for one am very glad of this. But we should be careful that irrational and overheated words do not become irrational and overheated actions. There is always an element of danger in this but it all goes along with freedom of speech.

      • 45caliber

        Well!!

        Maybe there is hope for you after all. Now why don’t you try toning down your own over-emotional words?

  • Capitalist at Birth

    I don’t watch the main stream media on TV. I cancelled my subscription to the St. Louis Post Dispatch over 6 years ago, because of their PROGRESSIVE stance. I do listen to talk radio, including NPR and watch some of Fox (which in my opinion is slightly left of center. Bill O Reilly is a typical Roman Catholic which sympathizes with Communist and Socialist ideals. I think he secretly would like to dictate to all others how they live their lives. I read at least two books a month by authors such as F.A. Hayek, Ludwig Von Misses, Thoas Sowell, Glen Beck, Dick Morris, Ayan Rand, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingram, and many more right thinking individuals. The progressives have a mission to control other peoples lives. Nothing they do or say surprises me. It does however sare the hell out of me, to think that they can influence many uninformed people to create a mob. I am preparing for the potential future violence. I hope the rest of you are as well. I intend to die a free man and not succumb to slavery.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Sorry about the typographical errors.

      • 45caliber

        I would suggest that you also check into some foreign newspapers for news. WND.COM has a listing with links to many such newspapers. Most print American stories which do NOT slant left or right in most cases. It is refreshing to learn the real story of some news item here. Even the Russian newspaper is very interesting. One story I read there (and laughed at) had a closing statement wondering if Oblama was trying to force them into war or was simply stupid.

    • mark

      Vary your reading and look at some left-leaning authors on politics and current events. Your reading list has all hard-core conservatives. I have read many of them and appreciate some of their points but I balance them off with liberal/progressive authors as well to get a good grasp of both very legitimate philosophies of how government should be organized and operate.

      • Dntmkmecmoverther

        Ayan Rand is conservative? Lighten up the meds pal. The only reading material missing from his list is the Federalist Papers and Jefferson’s library. What he does NOT need is a left leaning bias toward the foundational principles applied to the founding of this great nation called the USA. We get overdosed with that BS daily in nearly every print news source and on most every TV and Cable News outlet and unfortunately in some of the bloggers’ responses on this site.

        • mark

          You should always read some people and ideas that you strongly disagree with. This is how one builds on one’s knowledge base by comparing and constrasting opposing viewpoints on a range of issues. The one sure way to stultify one’s thinking process is to just read those people and ideas that you are already in agreement with. This just reinforces what you already know and does not push you to stretch your mental envelope and explore new areas and ideas you would otherwise never consider. And of course often through reading a variety of opposing views one can strenghten one’s own deeply held beliefs of many years.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      All though I am not a Bill O’Reilly guy, to call him communist and socialist is quite a bit overboard. From the few times Ive watched his show, Ive never seen that. Ive seen a concerned American, who opens up his show for the opposition to come one and talk, and more than not they try to spin the truth and lie, and sorry, he isnt going to tolerate it, that is why it is called, “the no spin zone”. If the guy is nice enough to invite you onto his show, on national TV, and he asks you a question, and you dont have the cahoonies to answer it because you hide from the truth, then son, that has nothing to do with communist or solialists. Those are the guys that are interested in hiding the truth. It seems to me the O’Reilly tries to expose it, and his guests insiste on hiding it, over and over again. Oh, and Im not a Catholic either, incase your trying to find some reason Im siding with him. I just understand and respect the truth, and thats it. The truth is always the truth, no matter who says what, the truth is what it is, the truth, and the truth will set you free. And even in those moments when we tell a lie and think we got over on someone, there is One who hears and see’s all, and all the lies in the world will be exposed one day. Thats why the truth is so great to me.

      • Tazio2013

        Sapere Aude,

        It’s obvious to me, after reading all your posts, that you are unaware of truth and objective reality. And now for those with eyes to see and ears to hear, here is a little something that may open your mind and help you to think rationally:

        http://www.thedailybell.com/2739/Anthony-Wile-Defining-the-Moment-The-Internet-Reformation

        • Al Sieber

          Tazio, thanks for the link.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          And for you Tazio, in reference to eyes and ears – Jeremiah 5:21, Mark 8:18, Ezekial 12:2, Psalm 135:16. The Truth will set you free.

  • Rennie

    There was nothing Christian about the attack, such barbarism is wht civilized people abhor islamic extremism. But, when you rub a culture’s face in their own inevitable extinction, you can’t expect everyone to be happy about it. The stupidity of not having a police helicopter available, or loading so many cops in a boat as to make it unsafe and useless, is just mind boggling.

    • Karolyn

      Well, most of the manifesto focuses on the crusades, which was a Christian war. Apparently, Breivak identifies with the Knights Templar and feels himself a crusader for Christianity and the white race.

      • Joy

        Sorry, but christianity in Europe is being made extinct by the same political correctness that is strangling christianity in the US. The Europeans are being over-run by Muslims and progressives. Bad combination.

        • 45caliber

          I saw in a British newspaper this morning that the Muslims are setting up areas where Shara law is to apply in various cities. If you are caught there (even if you live there!) with alcohol, etc. you are to be punished by Shara law even though it is legal otherwishe.

      • Thor

        While you are correct in pointing that out, Karolyn, one has to wonder if you see the real parallels here. Do you know your ‘Crusader history’? Before Mohammed, Christians, Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace under Roman oppression for 600 years before the spirit of empire arose from an Aramaic source. That source was Islam. From the death of Mohammed in 632AD to 732AD—in just 100 years—Muslims managed to accomplish by force what Christians had attempted to do with plodding good will, peace and brotherly love: they conquered most of the near East, Africa and were starting into Europe when Charles Martel stopped them in the west at France and the Byzantine Empire stood in their way to the East. It took 300 years of trade isolation for the first Christian crusade to take place. We learn from history that for every act of aggression there is an opposite and equal reaction from the oppressed. And so it goes—Islamic Imperialism leads to the Crusades which lead to a resurgence in the Seljuk Turks which leads to a British Empire on which the sun never sets (along with European expansion) to South African Apartheid and now…to a resurgent, peaceful Muslim invasion of Europe (Early Christian style) via the ideology of ‘diversity’ and ‘tolerance’ and relaxed immigration standards. Is it any wonder that Anders Behring Breivik’s psychosis zeroed in on this history? 32, clean-cut Norwegian kid and poster boy of Nordic heritage…is it any wonder the left has zeroed in on Breivik? Is it any wonder they are salivating over the scant evidence of Christian ties on his Facebook page? After all the publicity garnered by Muslim zealots, the press needs a genuine Christian zealot to balance things out. What’s more, the secular progressive community needs more fodder with which to discredit all religious belief. So, what’s not to like about such tragedy if you are a member of one of these hate groups? For real Christian folk, the answer to that question is obvious: since there are no genuine Christian beliefs at work here, why are Christians being lionized, demonized and marginalized for something they did not do and do not approve of? The answer to that is obvious. It leaves one with yet another question: once the Muslims and the secular progressives have the world to themselves, what’s the propaganda going to look like then?

        • libertytrain

          Thank you for the interesting post and a little reminder of history that has apparently been forgotten by the left these days as Christian bashing has become so “in.”

        • Joy

          Good post and good points. The sad thing today is that the radical muslim movement in the Middle East is trying to hammer out the same empire it had during the Crusades. I’ve often wondered if European countries were taking notice of that.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            The Europeans had the mindset that they needed cheap labor and additional tax funds for social services feeling that the influx of immigrants would provide. What a surprise they have gotten.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Gee Nadzeija, sounds just like the Democrats with the illegal alien propulation here in America. Look at the wonders its performed so far for Southern California. Yikes.

        • 45caliber

          The Islam invasion actually proceeded from the East all the way into Italy. (Bosnia is a good example since the invaders would kill everyone they found and then put Islamic colonists in the villages and farms they conquered. Half of Bosnia is Islamic today as a result – and both halves hate the other half.)

          It was basically stopped by a number of drunks, to my amusement. Of course history doesn’t say a lot about it other than “God acted to drive the Muslims back”. I forgot the city they were trying to conquere now, but the Muslims decided to make a night attack. They pretended to withdraw and then sent a force about midnight. Those in town were celebrating the withdrawal of the Muslims by getting drunk. Several drunks began a quarrel about which of them were the bravest and best warriors. Finally they decided to prove it by attacking the distant Muslim camp. About a hundred of them charged out of the city and plowed directly into the Muslim attack force trying to sneak up on the city. Most of the drunks were killed, of course, but they did manage to attract the attention of the city guards who stopped any attack on the walls. The Muslim leader was disgusted with the whole thing and left. They were badly over-extended anyway.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Those people who masqueraded as Christians during the Crusades, were just that, masquerading as Christians. As a Christian, we are called upon, by God’s word itself, the Holy Bible, to place others above ourselves, as Christ did us when He died for us. I somehow think these masqueraders killing people who didnt think like they did, were not putting these people first and helping them. Not at all. They were a misguided bunch, and their actions were actually one of satan’s finer moments. He delighted at the things that they did in the supposedly name of God. Just as he is delighting today in the muslims killing innocent people they dont even know in the name of God. These are satan’s finest hours when this goes on. And dont doubt it for one minute. But just as I sit here now, I assure you, those people were not Christians, who said they were while they were killing all those people. Had they truly known Jesus Christ, and what the Bible says, they would have know they were doing just the opposite of what a Christian is supposed to do. And those of us who know the Bible, fully recognize this. And usually, it is those who reject God and dont believe in Him, that are quick to assault the Kingdom of God with what went on in the Crusades, instead of recognizing how gullible man is and how they can be misled. Jim Jones? David Koresh? Warren Jeffs? Marshall ? But if your in the Word, you will recognize these guys when they come, and you will recognize the falseness of those who say they are one thing, but their actions show they are another. But Karolyn, many today are without the Word, and many, many will be misled when the evil one appears, and that day is coming. Only those in the World will recognize him when he comes.

        • Cawmun Cents

          Fine points indeed,but you failed to notate why the crusaders were up at arms to begin with.A sultan of the Islamic persuaion,decidede to invade the holy city of Jerusalem.Though I realize that the claims made by historians today,are that,Jerusalem is a holy city for both religions,it has always been the enclave for Judeo-Christianity.Unlike Islam which changed its holy cities according to who was in power at what given time.
          Imagine if you will my dear Berberoni,if Islam invaded the Vatican.Do you think then that the Christian policy of loving your enemies would suffice for Catholics throughout the world?I highly doubt it.Moreover were Christians to invade Mecca,do you think the Islamic folks would merely sit on their hands and watch as their holy city was ransacked?Not by a longshot.
          Again we have someone leaving out pertinent parts that make a story valid.You say this,yet you leave out historical detail,which would either support or degrade your position.In this case I would have to say that your position has been degraded.
          It is not un-christian to want to fight for your Lord and savior.Some may choose to do this in an idealiatically mis-informed way,but it is not un-christian to wish to enlist in Gods Army.In fact,if we were to have the unbridled passion with which people journeyed thousands of miles to impart during the crusades,we probably wouldnt be here arguing the points of idiocy which we sadly enjoy engaging in,to our dismay.God loves passion.He does not disdain it.Especially if your passion is for Him.A learned man realizes this and goes to work,doing what he believes is right.Some errantly do things of an abhorrent nature,leaving others critical of their position on the matter.But please do not crirticize the passion.The outcome maybe,but never the passion.God will take care of the details,wouldnt you agree?-CC.

          • 45caliber

            The problem is that the libs seem to be the ones who want to leave out pertenant parts of history to justify what they want to do. (Some conservatives do also, but not nearly as many.) I have a hobby, you might say, trying to find out what REALLY happened vs. what they tell you happened in history. Sometimes it isn’t easy. Right now, in Texas, they wanted to leave out Thomas Jefferson and the Constitution in favor of adding someone who invented a fireman’s hat (as if that was more important). They blame the conservatives, who refused to do so, for “changing” the books by not adding their fireman inventor.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            To pull your neighbor out of his house and kill him, because he doesnt think like you, is what these cats did during the crusades. Kind of like todays Islamic extremists. If people didnt think like them, they killed them. And sorry Cawmun, that is wrong. It would be like me hunting down DaveH and killing him, because Im a Christian and he is an atheist. Sorry, Im not going there. Im going to pray for Dave, whether he wants me to or not. But Im not going to trash him or seek ill will upon him, because he thinks different from me. Those guys were not passionate about Jesus Christ, or they would have done as Christ did, and extended love and caring to these people, not killed them. Now yes, there were times in the Bible, like with Gideon and David, where God spoke to them and commanded them to go into these heathen areas and kill everyone and take no prisoners. But when man takes it upon himself, and makes the decision to be God, and be judge and executioner, that is insane. These guys were guided by the hand of satan, as what they did, even today, gives Christianity a bad name. Many, many unbelievers today still bring up what murderers Christians were during the dark ages, and use that in their umbrella of “religion” causing more deaths than anything in the world ever. Being passionate about Christ, would not make you go out and kill people. Now dont get me wrong, if the Islamic movement keeps growing and growing, or any other enemy of me or this country, and its comes to kill or be killed, yeah, then they are going down. I should seek to preserve my life. My body is Gods temple. Darn straight. But Im not hunting down some innocent person and killing them because they are an atheist or something different than I. That is not Christ like. Those people were misled into doing what they were doing, and the Christian church went through a reformation because of that.

        • Elevenarrows

          Beberoni, well said.

        • 45caliber

          Beberoni:

          You are right. And I believe that is part of the liberal/conservative disagreement now. Some of us are recognizing the falsehoods based on actions – not words. Too many tend to believe the words instead.

      • ValDM

        K,
        You do know that he was a self-professed atheist & a die-hard Darwinist. These are not the attributes of Christianity. He was a delusional person, who had an extreme psychotic episode. Psychosis, for those of you who don’t know, is a break with reality. He also wrote extensively about the spread of islam and how much he hated what was happening to his country. Please be informed before you post. That way you won’t appear so…………..

        • Karolyn

          I did read his manifesto on YouTube and have read some other info. I made no judgments, just stated facts.

      • S.C. Murf

        The crusades were roman catholic not Christian

        up the hill
        airborne

        • Karolyn

          And the Roman Catholic church was, and is, Christian.

          • Elevenarrows

            Actually, Karolyn, many Christians (Protestant) do not lump Catholics in with Christians. Do you understand the great divide in Ireland??? Catholics vs. Christians/Protestants.

          • libertytrain

            Do you know what brought about the “great divide” in Ireland? Remember Henry VIII? http://www.historyonthenet.com/Chronology/timelinenorthernireland.htm

          • libertytrain

            Elevenarrows – the simplified version is Henry wanted a divorce from his wife who didn’t give him a son – he wanted to marry young Ann Boleyn – so he broke from the Roman Catholic Church and started the Church of England. Demanded all of his empire to practice his religion; some of Ireland did, some did not – look at Scotland and its history as well – all the fascinating history along with the murders of Catholics that didn’t follow his edict, etc. This went on because one man had the hots for another woman. Then he pulled a Terry Schiavo husband kind of thing and beheaded his new wife so he could get another one and another one and another one and on and on.

          • S.C. Murf

            The roman catholic church was brought about by a king. He instructed his religious men to bring his kingdom under one religion. His kingdom at that time was divided between Christians and Pagans, thus you had the belief of Christ and all the statues and idols in the roman catholic church. Jesus said, where any two people meet in my name there I will be. You don’t need a building just two coming together in the name of Jesus of Nazareth the Christ. What it comes down to is a battle of good verses evil. To bad man complicates the facts

            up the hill
            airborne

          • Karolyn

            elevenarrows – Any Protestant who does not consider Catholics Christian is deluded. Anyone who follows the teachings of Christ and the Bible is considered Christian. Catholics were the original Christians.

          • libertytrain

            Karolyn, also nicely said.

          • 45caliber

            Karolyn:

            While I certainly agree that Catholics are Christian I do disagree with your statement that a Christian is someone who acts that way. A Christian is someone who believes in Christ’s forgiveness and accepts it. The Christian acts are simply due to the Christian’s wish to be like Christ – they are NOT what makes them a Christian. But without the desire to be like Christ after accepting his forgiveness, TO ME AT LEAST, it is doubtful that person is truly a Christian.

          • 45caliber

            The Roman Catholic church was, and is, Christian.

            But that does not mean that all members of it – or all members of any Protestant church for that matter – are Christians. They are simply members of the church. Those are the ones that many atheists point to when they state that “all Christians act that way” – whatever “that way” might mean to them.

          • libertytrain

            45 BINGO :)

          • JeffH

            45caliber, double BINGO! :) :)

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Not so fast Karolyn. Christians practice the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Catholics practice the Roman Catholic Doctrine. There is nothing in the Bible that mentions a place called purgatory, but the Catholics practice it. There is nothing in the Bible that prohibits a Priest or a Pastor from marrying, but the Catholics practice it. Though yes, they do proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, many practice the Roman Catholic doctrine where they confess sins to a priest, who cannot forgive them, instead of to Jesus Christ who is the only one who can forgive them. There are many distinct differences, between being a Catholic and a Christian. But alas, there are some Catholic Christians, who were born in the Catholic church and choose to remain there, but do not practice the Roman Catholic doctrinal ways of counting on Rosarys, confessing to priests, or practicing idol worship by praying to statues and dead men, such as Peter and Paul. They were great Christians and did wonderful, wonderful work. But they were just men God used, and they are dead. They now are just that, dead men. They cannot help you or me. Only one beat the grave that can help us. All others, as I will be when I die, will be dead in the grave until the second coming when we will all be risen up. I dont make it up, its in the Bible. But there is a big difference.

        • libertytrain

          please let us know what Christian religions existed during the Crusades other than the Catholic Church – which did exist – and other than the Orthodox Church

          • Cawmun Cents

            In Christianity,it is not what you do.It is not which doctrine you follow.This is where mistakes are commonly made,concerning the attributes of a Christian.To say that one is a Christian is merely dependent on whether that person believes that Chrsit died for their salvation.Some in their lapse of sanity,wish to add to what Christ did.Thinking that you can determine your own fate,other than believeing in what Christ has done on your behalf,is where you have denominational disagreement.There is no scriptural basis for that particular affliction,but people make of it what it is not.A man was on the cross next to Christ,being crucified.He asked for Christ to speak(To God)on his behalf,thereby showing his belief in Christ’s ability to do so.Christ told the man that he would be in paradise with Him later that day.The man could not get off of the cross and do good works to earn his weay into heaven.Based upon this scriptural knowledge,we should readily assertain that God would not requiree more from some than from others.This would equal an uneven playing field since some are able to do more than others.Since it is based upon belief,and not merit,Christianity cannot be fully understood unless you observe its simplicity.You cannot as a Christian,earn your way into heaven.It is not part of the scriptural text.The man on the cross next to Christ merely believed.That was sufficient to obtain His grace.That is true for all Christians no matter the denomination.The rest is human effort which is nothing compared to the simplicity of Gods plan.Unless you choose to go upon your merit,in which case it would be readily assumed that you did not believe that Christ died for you.In that case you are judged according to the Mosaic laws.If you violated even one of those laws then you are guilty,though you have merely charged yourself with the deed.All that is required for you to be not guilty,is to believe.But that is not an excuse to keep on living as you did before you believed.For if you do then it would be assumed that you did not understand the sacrifice which Christ made on your behalf.That is tantamount to unbelief but it is not a requirement.Otherwise you would still be culpable for what you did,whch would mean you did not believe and are going by your own merits.Did that clear things up for you?It never did for me…so I merely believe.-CC.

          • 45caliber

            CC

            Good answer

          • libertytrain

            I was not confused, but thank you for taking the time to answer. I was asking if Smurf knew the answer to what he said. I don’t think he did, historically anyway.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You are absolutely correct cawmun cents. That is what sets Christianity apart from all religions. In all other religions, you have to do this, and do that. In Christianity, it was all done for us, when Jesus Christ spread His arms and said “I love you this much”, and took the nails for us. And then, in fulfillment of scriptures, He did not go into the grave and rot, He holds the keys to life and death. Salvation all hinges not on what you do, but what you dont do. If you dont accept Jesus Christ into your life, well, thats all of our choices. But one cannot work their way into heaven, and you cannot pray your way in. As it is written, Salvation is a gift of the Grace of God, not by our works, let no man boast. I know when I felt the call, and I responded and begged for His prescence in my life, my whole life turned around. And sad to say, people think Christians are supposed to be perfect, and they put the “holier than thou” tag on us. News to you all, Im still a sinner, and always will be as long as Im made out of flesh. But I do know where to turn for my hope and redemption, and I assure you, it isnt facing some city and praying 5 times a day either. As it is also written, if you dont have the Son, you dont have the Father. A lot of prayers are going on deaf ear. Jesus is the only way, and yes, I do know it, as it has been revealed to me. Am I special? No. I just invited Him to take over my life, and my eyes and ears got opened. But I still fail quite often, because Im no better than anyone, just better off because of my relationship with Him.

        • Thor

          S.C.Murf…ummmmm…while technically you may be correct, Roman Catholics were the only Christians around at the time, circa 1095A.D.; and the Pope did sanction the first Crusade. But, the Reformation did not take Christ away from the Roman Catholics and, frankly, they have never given Him up, either. I am sure Muslims clerics take special delight in these little excursions into Reformation rhetoric that so divide Christians…last known numbers into some 22,000 different sects, denominations and other heretical categories. That has to play into their strategy, don’t ya think? Christians better wise up! Muslims only have two categories to worry about–Sunni and Shiite–and when it comes to Christians, they agree with each other indelibly! So, we can continue arguing about who is and is not a genuine Christian, who’s going to Heaven and who’s not all we want…meanwhile, the Imams are quietly plotting the ascension of the next global Caliphate. Good work, team!

          • libertytrain

            Thor, very nicely said. I think there is an awful lot of confusion about Christianity and it’s origins – I’m always amazed with what gets posted.

          • libertytrain

            I wonder if he’s talking about Constantine or another – it was a dirty job but someone had to do it – though I guess it just postponed the inevitable confusion as to who was really a real Christian as we see today in particular.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            News for you Thor, you are dead wrong. 2 types of muslims? Hmmm. Saddam Hussein was a Bathe. You want to break down Christians, such as Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Missionary, Wesleyans as different, but we all worship Jesus Christ as the Son of God, one and the same. Same with Catholics. Muslim is the same way, so dont be so quick to act like they are so united. They kill each other more than any killings in the world, in mass numbers. There are the Sunnis who have many different schools of belief. The Shites, which are actually Shia, have Twelver, Ismailism, Zaidiyyah, Alawi, and Alevi. Sufism, which has Qadiri, Bektaski, Chisti, Naqshbandi, Oveyssi, Suhrawardiyya, and a few others. There is Ahmadiyya. There is Kharijite and Ibadi. How about Ahl-e Haqq, Mahdavism, Messiah foundation International, Moorish science, Nation of Islam, Submitters, and Zikri. They have related faiths called Babism, Baha’i Faith, Druze, Sikhism, Five Percenters, Meivazhi, Nuwaubu and Subud. And Im sure Ive missed others, but they are out there in all different kinds of sects and groups, and basically, they seem to like to kill each other over the nuances in their beliefs. You will not see me going around killing a Catholic or a Methodist or a Baptist because we choose to worship Jesus Christ differently. No, but it is funny how some people like you, without knowing Jesus Christ, which means you do not know about the ways of Christianity, and you assault it, and then try to defend Islam. It is people like you that make it dangerous for any American. Atheist and Christian alike. You assault the very thing that has kept you free in these United States. Imagine that.

      • Al Sieber

        Karolyn, maybe it’s the “Knights of the Golden Circle”, or Albert Pike, I’m serious.

    • 45caliber

      Rennie: According to European stories of this, it took the police 50 minutes after an alarm was given just to gather some police at the local police station! One mother said that she didn’t believe her daughter’s stories texted to her about the attack until she received a text from her daughter telling her that even though they had had problems, she wanted her mother to know she loved her. It was over an hour and a half before the police finally got there – and the attacker immediately surrendered to them – with a wide grin on his face.

      • Karolyn

        The reason it took the police so long was that they were all mobilized for the bombing in Oslo.

  • http://n/a John Beach

    It is the plight of some not to be discerningly discriminating and to be the cause of our vulnerability and victimization. So much for the imbalance of power.

  • Tibor Karoly

    Most media and public education is about intolerance and hatred.
    Good references are lost.
    Maniacs, killers and supermen dominate the entertaiment.
    Children born innocent, but the environment is damaging.
    The consequences are logical.
    The solution is not in more mystics or in religions, as religions are corrupt too, but in open society with real personal and family values, education, culture, traditions and yes, in objective knowledge and sciences…

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Excuse me? That is all the liberal media talks about, is tolerance, tolerance, tolerance. They want us to have tolerance for a nation of muslims, whose very tenant of their religion is that if someone thinks different than you, then they are an infidel and worthy of death. That is a problem. As a Christian, I pray for these people, that God would open their eyes and ears and bring His love into their life. Yet, do you think they extend God’s grace to me and Christians like me? No, they want me dead. And as a word, I dont like the word religion. Religion to be depicts false ideals that a bunch of men have, who came with an idea, died, and are are still buried in the ground where their flesh rotted and their bones lie. And those bones are still there today. Except one. Jesus Christ rose 3 days later as prophesied thousands of years earlier. And the open grave where He was at is still there, visible for all to see. My God is alive and well. I dont think the other fared so well.

  • Raggs

    Let’s all face it… If this loon had been a muslim this administration would be praising him.

    • Karolyn

      Raggs – That might be right up there with your most ridiculous posts! This is the kind of talk that means nothing other than spewing crap because you have nothing better to say.

      • Raggs

        Not really… I knew that I would get some kind of nonsence from you.

  • Wendy

    First of all, M.D., there shouldn’t even be a need to compromise since we are in this predicament because the president and the democrats NEVER formulated a budget. Instead they just keep buying votes with taxpayer money. Now that we are in this liberal caused mess, the compromise should only consist of what unnecessary programs should be cut to pay our debts. The only way everything is “destroyed” is if Obama and Geithner decide not to pay our debts and CAUSE us to default. There is enough immediate tax income to temporarily avoid default, plus Medicare, Social Security, and veterans benefits. But, as we all know, Obama really does not want a compromise because he fully intends to contort the Constitution and dictate his “right” to raise the debt ceiling. Mark my words, he will do anything to avoid having to deal with this again during the election year.

    • mark

      Well, they apparently did not buy enough votes with taxpayers’ money! Despite a huge amount of spending on domestic programs and the extension of unemployment benefits in 2010, the Democrats lost overwhelmingly to the Republicans in the November 2010 elections. So much for this vote-buying theory that conservatives always claim about the Democrats!

      • Wendy

        I never claimed it always works for them. Fortunately, not all of the American voters are as stupid as Obama thinks them to be. If Obama has his way, he will proclaim amnesty for all illegals and promise them the moon if they vote for him. It is already in the works.
        And don’t even get me started on unions. Really – Wisconsin recall elections.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          He could pull a Kennedy and get all those dead people to vote for him, which won the election over Nixon. And everyone who knows anything knows about that.

    • 45caliber

      Wendy:

      For about fifty years the Democrats controlled Congress – both Houses. The GOP members, to get anything they wanted done, had to make compromises and deals. The Dems just added what they wanted to a bill and voted to pass it. Their idea of “compromise” is “do everything our way.” The Presidents, regardless of party, had to sign to get anything done regardless of how bad the bill might be.

      Today’s problems in Washington is that the Dems are STILL used to simply voting to get what they want while the GOP is STILL used to making deals. So even though the GOP is in power in the House, they still want to compromise and make deals. The Dems still have the idea that they don’t ahve to compromise unless paid to do so in votes or actual money.

  • Donald Mc Guigan

    There are so many things being done behind closed doors that one does not know just what truth is. If you that remember Korea,or that other little battle we fought called Vietnam . Every little idea that came from D.C. was not shall we say so drastic that if it were not acted upon at once the country would go down the tube. It has come to the point now that every time a person on the Hill goes to the bathroom it is such an act that we must vote on it now. after all the person going my not know what he ,or she may not know the rules on this and has no hand book that tells them how to complete the task or when to stop. For one I think those so called leaders should takes up a practice in Japan while the end of WW11 was comming. Please do the right thing fall on your sword while there is even a spark of honesty in your bodies. Please stop messing up our great Nation.

    • 45caliber

      When a general is in charge of a war, the general states objectives and the military works to do them. When Congress is in charge – as they were in Vietnam, Korea, and all the others since – they want to give battle plans. “Do it this way – or else.”

      Soldiers do not follow battle plans in the US. They do in European countries. This has annoyed Congress for decades. The main difference is in who gets the medals. If a soldier succeeds in reaching an objective, he will normally get the medals for it. If an officer (or politician) provides the plan and it succeeds, then HE gets the medal – regardless of how many men his plan gets killed. In WWI the “plan” was the charge the enemy trenches – and many, many men died doing it while the officers who thought that up sat safely miles behind the battle lines. In WWII the European officers were offended that the stupid Americans wouldn’t follow their battle plans ( such as “the Charge of the Light Brigade” style) and instead thought up their own ways to succeed.

      • 45caliber

        Incidently, when I was forced to read “The Charge of the Light Brigade” in high school, I wasn’t impressed with the ‘bravery’ of the men involves as the writer was. I thought they were stupid for obeying an order that get them all killed.

  • http://libertyalerts Punchy

    How can you consider John Roll “staunchly conservative”? He ruled in favor of illegal aliens over a U.S. citizen in a multi-million dollar lawsuit. It was a gross miscarriage of justice! While I’m sorry he was murdered I’m glad he is off the bench.

  • Republic, We Are.

    I find it humorous that most of the brain dead cannot seem to figure out it’s all part of the plan to destroy the sovereignty of the USA and fold us into the One World Government. Sad, silly, ignorant people.
    Want proof, then read, “The Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Howard Griffin for a start then continue to follow that path with others. It will be similar to atheists trying to disprove the Bible, then becoming Christian converts.
    MOST OF THE LEFT WING WACKO’S REFUSE TO GO DOWN THIS PATH FOR FEAR OF REALITY.
    “Stupid is has Stupid Does” ….Forest Gump

    • 45caliber

      Just a comment.

      One major reason the libs support a OWG is that they have the belief that there will NEVER be war again! After all, if there is only one government, no army will be needed (saving all that money for their social program) and there will never be any political entity that will try to arm or activate an army. So war will be a thing of the past.

      And since war will no longer be possible, then of course a one world government is desireable above all other things – even freedom.

      • Joy

        The left seems to forget that the United States isn’t the only country in the world on the cutting edge of military technology. We’ve gotten lots of competition in the last few years.

  • Richard

    I can’t believe I read all of this bs

  • BOB REIN

    Socialism, communism , progressive liberalism are all political and social ideologies that on paper are provide the closest thing to an utopian existence for mankind. The only problem is that is has never been successfully achieved because it fails to take all the invariables inherent to man (greed, cruelty, power, laziness, indifference,etc) . Mao (70 million), Stalin (25 million), Hitler (8 million). All these mass murders murdered their own citizens and operated under the guise of the “socialist party”.
    When a society hands over it’s power to a few people thus creating a centralized government, it provides a threshold for abuse and tyranny of the masses. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely..!!This is why our founding fathers, fully aware of granting to much power to so few, devised a system of separation of powers, with checks and balances to prevent this consolidation of power and its ultimate abuse. Capitalism (without government intervention) and the free market system (small businesses and free trade) have lifted the majority of the masses from poverty and the stone age. “Crony Capitalism” is when the government dictates the free market and picks the winners and losers, such as General Electric, Gm, Chrysler, big labor etc who have received special tax breaks and bailouts at the taxpayers expense.. ) remember, government does not create wealth or jobs. It stagnates growth, restricts commerce and trade, and has extended itself far beyond its Constitutional limits as evident by its’ 14.7 trillion dollar debt. Remember ladies and gentlemen our founding fathers did not set up a democracy…they set up a republic (with some democratic principals) which is governed by the rule of law and individual rights…Democracy is basically mob rule…the following is a crude but basic example of democracy….a woman is in a motel room with three men having a party….the men in the room want to have sex with the woman, the woman declines, the men vote…its three votes to one…the men win..guess who gets screwed?? We have “bastardized” the greatest societal experiment of freedom and prosperity in the history of mankind…We were given this Republic…do we have what it takes to restore it or are we destined to let it fall by the wayside..wake up America and roll up your sleeves…Long live the Republic!!!

    • Joy

      I agree with most of your post except the part about ‘long live the republic’. The Republic is about to become extinct like the dinosaurs and the killer is going to be political correctness and the One World Government. Barack Obama is a plant: he is the final piece in a plan that was began years ago to destroy the United States. And what a fine job of it he’s done.

      • mark

        Right, we’re all doomed, doomed, DOOMED because of the AntiChrist Barak Obama. Please, it is all so sad and pathetic. Why bother making lunch today since we’ll all be living in a socialist death camp anyday now? Do you really believe this nonsense?

        • Joy

          What I believe is that when people stop looking over their shoulders and start accepting the crap that is spoon-fed to them by a corrupt government, they get what they deserve. Evil comes in many shapes and forms, my naieve friend. Cradle to grave dependency on the government is very tempting to many people: its also a foolish delusion. “A government that is large enough to give you everything you want is also large enough to take away everything you own.” What we are looking at today is what happens when the government wants to regulate and rule every aspect of a person’s life. No thanks.

    • mark

      But our system will continue to be dominated by corporate capitalism no matter who is in the White House. It’s just a pissing contest to see who can cut the rich’s taxes more – the Dems or the Repubicans. And meanwhile all the suckers struggle and suffer. In 1980 the top 1% earned 9% of national income, today they earn 23%. In 1980 the top 1% held $11 trillion in net wealth, today they hold $41 trillion! (OMB stats) They live in gated commmunities with additional giant vacation homes everywhere. They travel from private heliports, Lear jets, and yacht marinas everyday for work and play. I agree, the capitalist system is the best economic system in the world, it is just that it is also a terrible and unjust system in which the greatest greed gets the greatest reward. There is class warfare going on in our country all right! And the rich are winning, pulverizing the poor, the working class, and the middle class everyday. And best of all, they get the working class and lower middle class to walk around with signs crying: “Don’t tax the rich!,” while their kids march out to die for Haliburton, Bechtel, General Dynamics, and Exxon! What a beautiful system! Can you think of anything better?! They must all laugh themsevles to sleep guzzling Remy Martin in their giant 22,000 square feet bedrooms with TVs the size of drive-in movie screens.

      • Wendy

        So what, some have more than others. Learn to be happy for the successful and get over your envy.

        • mark

          But it is more than simple envy. As Warren Buffet recently said there is something drastically wrong with a tax system in which he earns billions but pays less a percentage of that income in tax than does his secretary with her modest income. Huge corporations such as Exxon and General Electric which owns MSNBC, as well as Newscorp which owns FOX, pay no tax at all compared to tens of thousands of struggling small businesses who do. Big corporations hide much of their money overseas to escape tax requirements. Rich individuals do the same with loopholes and tax lawyers. But perhaps just as critical is the deterioration in all incomes in the bottom 60% and the hard struggle just to stay even by the middle class who once lived fairly well with one income and now require two full time incomes just to keep pace. Meanwhile, good paying manufacturing jobs are increasingly shipped overseas for cheaper wages and zero benefits for foreign workers. In our own nation, companies use more and more illegal immigrants because they can pay them such low wages, zero benefits, and even have them work straight time on Saturdays and Sundays or for shifts over 8 hours. The result of all this is a more and more desperate working class and lower-middle class struggling just for necessities while a very small group of Americans just keep getting monstrously more rich year after year (and politically more powerful to employ lobbyists to keep their low taxes and tax loopholes). And why shouldn’t they, one might ask? These wealthy executives are vastly maximizing their firms’ profits by hiring non-American workers overseas and at home. They greatly increase the value of their company stock in many cases by increasing the unemployment of Americans. Some see a horrible injustice in this. Especially when the working class, and lower middle-class are priced out of higher education, can’t get housing loans after the recent mortgage bust, etc. And of course those on the lower end of the economic spectrum make up the vast amount of our military who fight and die overseas not solely, but partly, to increase corporate profits and Wall Street margins. There a many Americans like yourself, Wendy, who are quite satified with this system that rewards the rich and punishes the working class and lower middle class. But others are deeply disastisfied and note that none of the beneficiaries of the system ever send a single one of their children to Iraq or Afghanistan but rather to Yale, Harvard, Duke and Stanford. Our overseas wars on the other hand are increasingly for Virgil, Jose, and Leroy.

        • Karolyn

          Geez! Why do “you people” think it has something to do with envy? It has nothing to do with envy. It has to do with contributing to the welfare of this country and paying a fair share.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            What is the welfare of this country and paying their fair share? Who determines this?
            Stop throwing out subjective terms that mean absolutely nothing.

          • Jana

            If we all have to pay our fair share, then lets start with congress. They should also have to do a little sacrificing. If they did they would quickly learn to balance the budget and live within our means.

      • 45caliber

        I’ll tell you what. Get Soros, Bloomberg, Gates, etc. to donate all their wealth to the government. All the lib billionares. THEN I’ll push to have the conservatives do the same thing. But I’m not going to hold my breath while you do that.

        • Karolyn

          Well, Buffett and Gates have given away a LOT of their money. Of course, no one expects anybody to give away ALL of their money, although that is referred to in the Bible, isn’t it? “The more you give, the more you receive.” If one has faith, one is not afraid of giving ALL away because it will be returned tenfold.

          • Thor

            I’m with you on that, Karolyn, but I’d like to point out an obvious pattern here: 1) Christ was talking about individuals being charitable with their personal wealth (as opposed to government); 2) Charity is ‘willingly’ distributing your own wealth as opposed to the forced redistribution of wealth by government–see the pattern emerging? and 3) Gates/Buffet versus Soros…well you couldn’t ask for better anecdotal evidence of 1) and 2)…willing versus forced. Eh, hair-splitting, I suppose.

          • 45caliber

            You can call it “giving away their money” but they are actually spending their money on things that they want. Just like I do. And to them, it is all tax deductable so they can actually NOT pay the government the amount they spend.

            I wasn’t talking about giving money way. I was talking about giving their money to the government so other people can spend it on things they don’t decide is important. It might be things they agree with but it could as likely be on things they don’t agree with.

            I approve of the government spending money on the military. I don’t approve of them giving money away to other nations as foreign aid. I’m certain that the money these men could “give” the government would be spent the same way.

            Besides – even if they gave every penny they have to the government, just how long would it take our government to spend all of it? I don’t remember the exact amount but I want to say that someone pointed out the other day that it spends billions per HOUR.

          • Karolyn

            Buffett is willing to pay more taxes and has sent correspondence to other billionaires asking them to do the same. He believes in paying back for what he has been given by this country.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Stop babbling about what you think the Bible says to be acceptable to the posters and to have them let their guard down on the assumption that you are like them.

          • libertytrain

            Again, good grief.

          • Jana

            Karolyn,
            The giving away of money was a lesson from Christ to the very rich man who looked at his money as his god. Christ was telling him that he needed to get rid of his worldly god and believe in the ONE TRUE GOD.

        • mark

          None of these three would donate all their wealth to the government. No one is calling for this. But Soros, Bloomberg, and Gates do support closing tax loopholes for the very rich and raising the highest bracket rate slightly higher. They would, of course, have to pay more in taxes due to this increase which would not affect the tax rates of those in the lower 98% of the income spectrum.

      • http://libertywebsite Tony

        To Mark:
        Excellent post, the sad thing is conservatives have allowed these
        corporate crooks to control them. It’s tragically hilarious they can’t see this. Thanks!!

    • Wendy

      Great post Bob. The only thing missing is that with freedom comes responsibility. By that I mean personal responsibility – something many are sorely lacking.

  • Karolyn

    Somebody needs to learn how to spell “dischord.”

    • libertytrain

      ? I’m confused – what do you mean? Discord is correct?Definition of DISCORD
      1
      a : lack of agreement or harmony (as between persons, things, or ideas) b : active quarreling or conflict resulting from discord among persons or factions

      • Karolyn

        Sorry – I didn’t know it had two spellings.

        • libertytrain

          As far as I know it doesn’t. Dischord is a music company? And I think the name of a couple of songs.

          • Joy

            Didn’t they make a movie back in the 70′s about that kind of music? Saturday Night Fervor or something like that? LOL!!

          • Karolyn

            You’re right.

  • Moby49

    If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck. Just saying.

  • samuel welsh

    this guy is not a christian , we christians belive in peace not murder.
    or prayers are with norway and its people
    as well as a transformation from the killer to a man of peace.

    • 45caliber

      He stated he was a “Darwinist” and an atheist. He uses the term Christian, not in a religious sence but in a territorial sense. (“This is a Christian nation.”) He also talked about Christian atheists in the same manner. It is the US MSM who called him a Christian. That’s the reason I like to scan a few foreign papers each day. They tend to tell the truth that our media won’t touch.

  • Stunned at sunset

    Wow! Ben brought all of that seething liberal mendacity out into the light of day were, exposed to the heat of his logic and fact, it rapidly evaporated. Does anyone know exactly WHY the liberal left has such a penchant for gratuitous ignorance?

  • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

    One minor point: The wife and son of Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge in Idaho were not murdered because Randy didn’t vote for Clinton. George Bush 1st was president when these murders took place. This is an important distinction to remember, because some patriots have forgotten that a liberal Republican is only marginally better than a liberal Democrat.

    The justification given by the liberal cult for this massacre by government thugs is that the Weaver family openly committed thoughtcrime; this is why liberal propagandists have been forbidden by their masters from saying the name Randy Weaver without preceding it with some version of the word racist (i.e., white supremacist, etc.). If the Weaver family had been the Muhammad family, the liberal cult would have been up in arms about the massacre, but since it was a family of thought criminals they consider it justified.

    The pretext for the assault was that Randy Weaver had been entrapped by an FBI snitch into cutting off a shotgun barrel below the length specified by law. This law is illegal, but the Constitution doesn’t seem to matter much to the criminal gang in Washington.

    The incident occurred during a period when the liberal press was waging a massive propaganda campaign intended to eviscerate the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. So I think that, as with the Waco massacre, the purpose was to send a signal to the American people that when government comes for your guns you’d better not resist.

    Ultimately this campaign failed to do serious harm to the freedom to keep and bear arms, but at the time, its promoters had to have believed that it would be successful.

    As with all liberal bigots, the hands of Bill Clinton are filthy with innocent blood. But the blood of the family in Idaho is not on his hands; it’s on the hands of Bush 1. Let’s not forget that.

  • Downs1

    I just spent an hour reading the comments and responses on both sides. It’s amazing how we can twist things to make our side look good and the other side look like the enemy. When it is all said and done, the bottom line is still the same: the people in Norway died for nothing! Breivik, regardless of his motivation decided to kill innocent people. Perhaps we don’t agree with the political ideas and social persuations of the victims, but we have no innate “right” to assassinate them either physically or character-wise. We can debate the issues, but when we feel it necessary to destroy people, we have crossed the line. On the other hand, when a particular group of people flies planes into buildings and wantonly kills others whether for political or religious reasons, it is appropriate to defend oneself and ones people. To do nothing only invites more violence and gives the perpetrators boldness. When they find out they must pay a price, they may think twice, but not always! Obviously Breivik has a hatred and fear of Islamics, but in the end, only he knows why he attack this particular group of young people. One day he will stand in judgment. . . final judgment!

  • Gordon in Texas

    Good column Ben; very well done. Unfortunately, I don’t think we’ve seen the worst that the liberal media and this Marxist government have to offer. Finger pointing, acts of cowardice, and disinformation will continually worsen as we get closer to 2012.

    Being right will do us no good as long as we’re silent. Face it…. The majority of people in the United States are basically uninformed and fickle. The American public needs to be informed as what is really happening inside the beltway. Being silent—or preaching to the choir—will not achieve that. Conservatives have been doing the rope-a-dope for far too long. Time to come out of the corner fighting.

  • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

    For those of us who exercise our right to bear arms by carrying a concealed handgun, an important thing to keep in mind is that this mas murderer wore body armor. He’s not the first to do this and he isn’t likely to be the last. For this and other reasons I think the unconstitutional law against citizens having armor-piercing ammunition should be reexamined.

    This guy also dressed up like a police officer, which made his killing spree easier to carry out. It’s common for criminals to pretend to be police. So I think we should reexamine the mandate that citizens be totally submissive whenever we are confronted by someone claiming to be a police officer.

    • Average Joe

      “For those of us who exercise our right to bear arms by carrying a concealed handgun, an important thing to keep in mind is that this mas murderer wore body armor.”

      If we were truly exercising our rights, they wouldn’t be concealed, but rather in plain sight…so there’s no confusion that we are armed.

      An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.
      Robert A. Heinlein

      • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

        There is an advantage in carrying a concealed weapon. I agree fully that there is a right to carry in the open. But most of us aren’t going to do that during peacetime. But if you want to you have my blessing.

        • Average Joe

          I’m just pointitng out the fact that we shouldn’t have to conceal the fact that we are “Carrying” and that it is beyond the governments authority to demand any such rules….CC Permits are nothing more than revenue generators and a way of tracking who has a gun and is carrying it….in case of gun bans….easier to confiscate those guns and incarcerate those who own them.

          • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

            I agree.

    • mark

      No, pull your concealed handgun on the police the next time they confront you. That is much better than being submissive! Are you for real?! If everyone took your approach we would be having hundreds of shootouts everyday on the highway.

      • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

        Mark my friend, you are a fool. Is a straw man argument the best you can do? I didn’t say citizens should pull a gun on police. I said the policy of us being totally submissive whenever we are in the presence of someone claiming to be a police officer should be reexamined, because it makes it too easy for criminals to take control of people simply by claiming to be police. You are incredibly naive if you think criminals don’t do this. (In fact I think you are incredibly naive anyway.)

        More people have been murdered by governments than by private citizens. The authors of our constitution knew that it was a big mistake to put too much power into the hands of government. Liberal sheep today have forgotten this.

        But the liberal cult has so far been mostly unsuccessful. America is still a free country. You can be unarmed and helpless, and you can be totally submissive around any government person; that is your right. Where we disagree is whether or not you have a right to impose your sick belief system on everybody else. This is the fundamental distinction between a liberal bigot and a patriot.

        • 45caliber

          One of the problems with the liberals is that they completely believe their leaders. If one of their leaders says something, it must be true and the leader must have the best intentions to everyone else. Even though there are leaders who prove otherwise, they continue to believe this. If one of their leaders – who is worried about his own skin – says that everyone should give up their guns, then as far as the liberal is concerned, it must be the best thing.

        • Elevenarrows

          I agree that it is too easy for criminals to simply pretend to be police. When I was growing up, there was a man in our area who was dressing like a policeman and using a blue light to pull women over on dark, deserted side roads. He was raping them. I can remember the police advising people to put their hazard lights on and keep driving to a populated area rather than to risk stopping for someone that wasn’t really police. Nowadays, I doubt the citizens would be given that leniency!

    • 45caliber

      deprogramming:

      Body armor protects ONLY the body. If you are any good at all with your aim, you can take him out with head shots – or you can shoot him from the side for the body armor doesn’t cover that. Metal jacketted bullets will go through most body armor anyway. Armor piercing ammo isn’t really needed.

      • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

        Thanks for your post my friend.

        I don’t know if I’d like having to hit someone in the head if he had a rifle and all I had was a pistol. When I go to the range I practice head shots, and I’m a decent shot (when no one is shooting at me anyway), but I still think armor piercing ammo should be available. I realize that there are problems with it, like a greater risk of overpenetration, and it has inferior stopping power. But it should still be an option. (A rifle in the trunk of my car might be a good option too.)

        Have you done much reading about the infamous North Hollywood shootout in (if I remember right) ’97? Presumably the police were decent shots, but they couldn’t take those two guys out. One had only his torso protected; the other one had made a kevlar suit that covered him from neck to ankle, including his arms. The bad guys also had fully automatic rifles, which made it harder and more dangerous for the officers to approach them and expose themselves. But they fired I believe around a thousand rounds total, during a 45 minute shootout, from rifles with cyclic rates of 600+ RPM… So I don’t know how much suppressive fire they really did lay down. But I do know that I wouldn’t have wanted to get close enough to them to get a head shot.

        Anyway, my point is not that armor-piercing ammo would solve this kind of problem or that a bad guy with body armor can’t be stopped without it. It’s that another option could be very useful. I usually carry at least two extra magazines; one of them might as well have something that could defeat body armor.

        There are other good reasons that this kind of ammo should never have been outlawed. But this post is getting kind of long and it’s a little off-subject so I won’t go into them.

        • 45caliber

          It is outlawed for the same reason the police insist no one should be able to defend themselves when they are around – even from the police. They don’t want to be shot. But … if they act stupidly, why should I care if they are shot instead of some innocent person? One of the real problems is that the police departments all insist on haveing a SWAT team. Why? One of a county would be more than enough since I’ve never yet seen a case where two SWAT teams were needed at the same time. But they can’t afford to have these teams simply sitting all the time so they send them out to raid houses. And they follow their training for houses with bad people in them – you go in fast and shoot anything that moves. If they come into my house, I’m sure I’ll be killed – but I’m going to do my best to take at least one of them with me.

          However, despite training, most people, including the police, get excited in such a situation. Aiming real shots is very seldom done even if you think you are aiming. As a result only about 10% of the people actually do any good in combat where bullets are flying both directions. In a local bank robbery, the policeman working as bank guard fired 13 times; the robber fired six or seven. The robber gave up when his gun jammed. Neither came close to hitting the other and both were in the open when they were firing at each other. The cop had an excellent record at the range. I don’t know about the robber.

          If you want to learn how to shoot in a situation like that, don’t aim at the range. Point your gun at your target. Start by shooting from the waist. If you point your finger, regardless of where your hand is, you will almost always be exactly on target. Learn to shoot the same way. Then, in an emergency when you shoot that way anyway, you can hope to get your shots on target.

          The guy in Norway was never, to my knowledge, out of pistol range of his targets. (I’ve seen the maps in foreign papers.) The reason he was so successful was that he KNEW that none had any way to fight back. So he could take his time to aim. When the cops showed up, before they even figured out where he was, he came out holding up his hands.

          As for bullets, keep one clip that is meant for defense. Alternate soft nose or hollow point bullets with jacketed bullets. Then it doesn’t matter if he is wearing body protection or not. He will go down.

          • Jana

            45 C,
            I have practiced a few times. I can pretty well hit the target right on, but my problem is when I pull the trigger my hand moves. When I practice enough that problem stops, but my hands hurt after shooting the gun. I was told I was good enough to get my concealed license, but I haven’t because I don’t like shooting enough to practice, and I know that is what it takes.
            You sound like you know what you are doing, any suggestions?

          • JeffH

            Jana, if your hand hurts you need to toss out the 44magnum you’re shooting… :)

          • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

            I’ve read Applegate and a few other sources on point shooting, and I’ve had a limited degree of success with it. But most experts I’ve read (i.e., Jeff Cooper, etc.) and studied under recommend against it, saying instead to concentrate on the front sight. But whatever works for you is fine with me, as long as the bad guy, as you say, goes down.

            Where did you find those maps? I’d like to take a look at them.

            I have to wonder if the killer surrendered so readily because maybe he had run out of ammunition. I have no doubt that he plans on using his trial as a platform to speak out against the things he hates, so that was a probable reason too. But being out of ammo would be a pretty compelling reason to lay down ones arms.

          • 45caliber

            Jana:

            First, you are probably shooting a gun that is too big for you. Get a smaller caliber. They will do the job equally well if you put them in the right place. You are also trying to fight the recoil – which you don’t need to do.

            However … First, the reason you are jerking the gun is because you are flinching in fear of the recoil. Try firing it without bullets. One trick the army used was to place a quarter on the end of the barrel. If it falls off, you flinched. Squeeze the trigger slowly instead of jerking it. You want it to surprise you when it fires. That way you don’t jerk.

            There is one excellent way to get around the recoil problem. (I’m assuming you are talking of a hand gun and all comments are addressed to that.) Hold the gun with one hand and raise your arm until it is level with your shoulder. (Despite the present day insistence on two handed shooting of a pistol, it is a ONE handed weapon.) Point the gun at the target but keep your arm in line with your body. In other words, when the gun is aimed if you raised both arms they would be pointing in opposite directions. Lock your wrist and lock your shoulder – but do not lock your elbow.

            When you fire it, the recoil will cause your elbow to bend absorbing the recoil. You can fire a BIG gun that way without problem. When your arm drops back to the elbow being straight you have the additional advantage of being back on target.

            Do not try to fight the recoil, regardless of how you hold the gun. Let it recoil. I suspect a large part of your problem with the pain is that you are trying to continue to hold the gun on target as it recoils by locking all your joints.

            By doing this you will eliminate the pain which will go far toward reducing your chances of flinching. And the practice with the dry firing (no bullets) will help too.

            A further benefit of aiming this way will be that you can look down the barrel rather than worry about the sights. This improves point aiming. Since in most cases you will be close to your target you don’t need to use the sights. So you can shoot far faster. Just take your time. Don’t try for speed. The first bullet usually decides a problem.

          • 45caliber

            Deprogramming:

            I found the maps in a British newspaper.

            The shooter had more ammo on him. He didn’t run out. He simply surrendered the moment he saw the police with guns.

    • 45caliber

      deprogramming:

      “So I think we should reexamine the mandate that citizens be totally submissive whenever we are confronted by someone claiming to be a police officer.”

      This I do agree with. Further, I believe police officers should be trained and warned of this. It REALLY annoys me to read about some police officers breaking into someone’s house – legally or not – and then shooting the owner because he “might” have a gun in his hand. If they break into the wrong house and shoot the owner, then I believe the police should receive punishment for it. (Like they didn’t receive any punishment when they shot the Marine who was shot over 50 times.) They should NOT shoot the moment they see something.

      • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

        We are in complete agreement on this.

  • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

    This guy waged a war by force of arms. The liberal cult wages a war by propaganda. Both of these combatants killed innocent people, but since the pen is mightier than the sword, the liberal cult has been far more destructive.

    People just like the liberal elite in America today carried tyrants like Hitler, Mao, and Stalin to power. So when they try to point a finger at who has blood on their hands, they should take a close look at themselves. They’ll never do this though; self deception is too important to them.

    • mark

      It wasn’t a war by force of arms! It was the deliberate, cold-blooded massacre of scores of innocent, unarmed children by a madman for some crazed political agenda! To say that what the liberal media does is far more destructive is also crazy! So you think the postman delivering the New York Times to your house or NBC News being on your television set is worse than some lunatic coming into your neighborhood and killing 80 innocent, unarmed children?!!! What kind of mental reasoning is this? Are you on medication? I certainly hope so for the sake of those who live around you. You apparently can’t see the difference between the cold blooded murder of unarmed children and the Constitutionally protected exercise of free speech in a free society which allows a media with all sorts of legitimate viewpoints not just liberal, but conservative-libertarian, like FOX News, talk radio, the Washington Times, National Review, the Manchester Union-Ledger, and numerous websites like this one. You are probably a member of one of these lunatic extremist groups!

      • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

        Liberal sheep carried tyrants like Hitler, Stalin, and Mao to power. And they assisted in the genocides these tyrants committed by disarming their victims. As with this murderer, they tried to justify the mass murders they committed by claiming that they served a greater good. Those who support the murder of a million unborn babies a year claim the same thing.

        I don’t think there was anything good about this guy and what he did. My point is that liberal bigots are just as bad; they just commit their crimes with a different weapon. If you can’t see this you are a blind fool.

        • 45caliber

          I ran onto a new quotation I like that seems to fit this situation with mark:

          Albert Einstein: “Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.”

        • mark

          No, “liberal bigots” are not as bad just because they produce TV shows and newspapers that you don’t like! This is not the same as slaughering unarmed, innocent children. Liberal sheep did not carry Hitler, Stalin, and Mao to power! Political extremists of the right and the left did! There were virtually no liberals in Russia before the Russian Revolution that began Stalin’s ascent to power. Hitler arrested and/or killed liberal opposition to his regime. His greatest domestic enemies were the German socialists, communists, and the liberals from the Wiemar Republic. These individuals spoke out against Hitler’s movement and paid dearly. The German socialists and communists fought his Brownshirts in the streets of Germany. He had them all rounded up, put in concentration camps, and killed. Don’t you know what Hitler did to German socialists, communists, and liberal democrats in the 1930s? Haven’t you read any books on this subject? There are monuments to these martyred socialists, communists, and liberal democrats in Germany who endured horrible torture under the Nazis before they were killed. Hitler’s strongest base was the conservative German middle class, the capitalist industrialists, and the conservative German military, all of whom despised socialism, communism, and liberal democracy. And as for Mao, there were virtually no liberals in China, they were a tiny powerless minority. Mao’s communists fought against the authoritarian military regime of Chiang Kai-Chek, certainly no liberal! Chiang like Mao opposed freedom of speech, the press, and free elections, all liberal principles. Chiang never once stood for an election. He held power by force. Mao came to power in China through a violent revolution not by any wave of liberal support?!! There was no strong liberal tradition or political grouping in China. A small handful of liberal-minded State Department officials correctly predicted that Mao would win the civil war against Chiang’s corrupt, authoritarian regime. For that they were fired and their advice was ignored. Mao as predicted won after the Truman adminstration gave billions in aid to Chiang much of which he funnelled to Swiss banks, and proceeded to impose a horrific dictatorship on China for decades. Nothing that you are saying has any basis in historical truth. It is just the kind of twisted claptrap you hear on talk radio. There was hardly any gun ownership in Czarist Russia, Wiemar Germany, or Nationalist China to begin with. Widespread gun ownership is a U.S. tradition it doesn’t exist and never has in Europe and Asia. Neither the czars nor Chiangs military regime would allow large amounts of ordinary people to own guns. But neither of them were liberals! The Russian Czars were not liberal, Chiangs thuggish military regime was not liberal. They didn’t believe in free speech, free elections, personal freedom, these are liberal ideas that the czars, Chiang Kai-Chek, Mao, and Hitler all despised. These tyrants all hated modern democracy – the creation of nineteenth century European and American liberals!

          • Nadzieja Batki

            This is the sanitized Liberal history of the world. Who owned the media in the 1920s,1930s,1940a,etc.? For sure they were not right wing extremists.

      • Thor

        Say, Mark, on this ‘pen is mightier than the sword’ thing: it was the staged photos and the news blurbs written down by journalists under the mesmerizing ideology of one such psychotic that started the war that was supported by millions who thought Poland attacked Germany, ending in the deaths of 25 million people. I’d say, just in numbers, what the media preaches does more damage–or, at least has the potential–than any martial efforts of a single psychotic. That’s why the saying has been around so long…it is true that the pen has more influence on people and what they do, than the sword, which can only influence them one at a time.

        • mark

          Yes but it was NOT the liberal pen that helped bring Hitler to power, it was the Nazi pen, full of hatred of Jews, minorities, immigrant foreigners, decadent elected democracies as they called it, and “Jewish Bolshevism.” The sane liberal press in Germany opposed Hitler until he shut them down. The liberals were not the villains in Germany, the Nazis were! They destroyed the liberal Wiemar Republic, they ended elections, shut down the free press, arrested political opponents. The Nazis totally controlled the media. Here we have broad open media with a wide range of views and outlets, newspapers, tv, radio stations, internet websites and blogs. Nazi control of the media was total and completely state-controlled. This is not the case in the U.S. and is a key difference that keeps our society free,vibrant and open to lots of ideas and dissent. This is one of the great foundations of a liberal democracy – free speech and a free press or media as it is better described today (newspapers are dying out and far less influential today)

          • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

            Mark you are indeed a fool. Don’t you understand that the common thread that runs through the Nazis, communists, and others who commit genocides is all powerful government? The liberal cult of today levies propaganda war, aimed at giving our government ever more power. If they had their way, our government would be as all powerful as the other ones I referred to. And just as evil.

            You think that because there are mechanical differences between communists and National Socialists that they aren’t fundamentally the same? It is power over the many in the hands of the few that matters, not the mechanisms they use to acquire and maintain that power. This is what gives them the power to destroy. And now fools like you are trying to do the same thing again.

            This is why I say that fools like you have blood on your hands. You are part of a timeless army of dupes, that has killed untold millions of people, and enslaved many times as many.

            Then when a psycho commits mass murder those of you whose hands are filthy with innocent blood point a bloody finger at patriots and yell “witch,” as though we are somehow at fault. I know there are some who are foolish enough to believe this nonsense, and you seem to be among them. But those of us with a mind of our own can see who the real murderers are.

    • Jay

      This guy waged a war by force of arms. The liberal cult wages a war by propaganda. Both of these combatants killed innocent people, but since the pen is mightier than the sword, the liberal cult has been far more destructive.

      People just like the liberal elite in America today carried tyrants like Hitler, Mao, and Stalin to power. So when they try to point a finger at who has blood on their hands, they should take a close look at themselves. They’ll never do this though; self deception is too important to them.

      True enough ds. One need only to look at the liberal war-mounger in the white house to confirm your statement. Since he came on board, he embroiled the country in three new wars in the middle-east, and without congressional approval. He has all but destroyed industry and with it, the economy. And for the cherrie on top, he is on the verge of totally compromising the security of the United States, and all, achieved through liberal policies. The liberal cult claims to be lovers of peace, but are in essence, war-moungers and destroyers!

      • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

        I sometimes wonder if Obama will try to get our military spread out all over the world where it can be destroyed relatively easily. I don’t have any knowledge or evidence of this, it’s just a thought.

  • Elevenarrows

    Karolyn,

    The point others were trying to make about Terri Schiavo is that it was not your decision or her unfaithful, ex-husband’s decision to determine what quality of life was acceptable for Terri.I find it ironic that many liberals scream “It is all about choice”, but they fail to apply the same standard when it conflicts with their views. I, for one, do not want you or anyone else with ulterior motives to determine what is an acceptable quality of life for me or my loved ones. Terri’s death was a government-sanctioned murder and good people were lying awake at night grieving over that. What remains to be seen is how wide the door has been opened. We will see this type of murder happen again…it is a matter of time. If YOU loved your child and they were handicapped, you might not be as willing to have a third party “judge” determine whether or not your child lived or died. Don’t even respond by telling me more hogwash about how glad you would be to have your child die rather than live that way…that is faulty reasoning that devalues life…and what devalues life itself is EVIL.

    • S.C. Murf

      Amen Elevenarrows, very good, very very good!!!!!!

      up the hill
      airborne

    • Karolyn

      What is life? Real life is spirit/soul, and it lives forever. I would think that Mrs. Schiavo’s husband would have known her well enough to know what she would have wanted. Just like when my mother was in the hospital for a brain tumor. Even if she hadn’t had a living will, we kids knew her well enough to know that she would not have wanted to live in the condition she was in. Fortunately, any decision was taken out of our hands when she decided to depart from her body.

      • libertytrain

        Her husband took to living with another woman and had children with her and apparently wanted to marry her. He did have reasons for wanting his first wife dead and out of the way, so why not proclaim she told him she wanted to die if ever in the situation she found herself? I don’t know what’s right or wrong for Terry but I sure wouldn’t take the word of her “beloved” husband -

        • Elevenarrows

          Exactly, libertytrain! In other cases, judges take into consideration the bias of each party. As far as I am concerned, Congress, the President, Jeb Bush as Governor, the doctors who followed the ungodly order, the attorney for her loser-husband, etc. all share the blame and have Terri’s blood on their hands. I often wonder if God would have us all do more to defend the unborn and people like Terri. I fear when we get to Heaven, we may all discover we did not do enough to protect the most vulnerable among us. Except for the grace of God, there go all of us…..

        • Average Joe

          Actually, her husband didn’t “take to living with someone else” until several years after his wife had been comatose and without any medical progress or chance of recovery. Mrs. Schaivo was in a vegative state with no hope of recovery and Mr. Schaivo had been trying to have his wife removed from the machines keeping her body alive (which according to him and several of “her” friends) in accordance with what she had told them she would have wanted. Should Mr. Schaivo have been denied a chance to return to some sense of normalcy in his life simply because Robert and Mary Schindler (Terry’s parents) did not want to face reality and allow their daughter to pass on? Or should he after 20 plus years still be visiting his wife, still attached to machines in the hospital daily and have no life of his own? At what point does it become time for someone to say “Enough is enough” and move on…is there a time limit?Mr. Schaivo met someone after many years, who brought him comfort and some measure of normalcy to his life which was otherwise turned upside down by circumstances beyond his control, I can find find no fault in his actions.
          As I stated above….any death is a tragedy for friends and loved ones….but sometimes, no matter how we feel personally, we must face the reality of the situation and allow them to pass on peacefully and move on with our own lives. I learned this truth through personal tragedies in my own life. Its not… what’s best for us…it is…ultimately…. what is in the best interest for them that truly matters.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_case

          • Karolyn

            Thank you Joe!

          • Average Joe

            Karolyn,

            You are welcome. I know that we don’t agree on many issues, however sometimes we must look beyond the media frenzy and see the bigger picture. I live about 45 miles north of Clearwater, so this case was in the news almost daily here…long before the media fiasco that insued even began. Actually listening to the parties involved, showed where their priorities and interests were comming from. I fully undersand the parents take (not wanting to lose hope for their daughters’ recovery), but sometimes you must look at the reality of the situation and then make your decision based only on the facts…and not the emotions. Our hearts tend to get us into more trouble than our minds do (as a rule) and in cases like this…our minds needs to be the arbitrator of what is the right thing to do for the sake of our loved ones…. and not our hearts. Terry is in a better place than she had been for 15 years….I am glad that SHE is finally at peace.

          • Elevenarrows

            You are WRONG, Joe. You should get your info from a better source than Wikipedia, for Pete’s sake. By the way, those who are quoting the infamous doctor who claimed she was in a 100% vegetative state need to check to see which side that doctor was on…and why are you placing the opinion of a doctor over everything else as if doctors are some kind of god that determines who lives and who dies? Scary blind following by the masses! People who are in a 100% vegetative state do not brighten up when loved ones or particular nurses/caregivers enter the room. They are unaware of who is in the room. Also, much progress was being made when Terri was allowed therapy. Her husband demanded that she not be allowed to have therapy. He is a cruel, godless man. You need to listen to those who actually cared for, visited and interacted with Terri and her family over those many years, rather than listening to wikipedia, liberal magazines (who often support euthanasia, population control, etc.)and those parties who supported and participated in the husband’s efforts to kill her.

        • http://deleted Claire

          liberttrain–I sure am agreeing with you tonight.

      • Elevenarrows

        Karolyn, first of all, your mother did not decide to depart from her body. You can squint your eyes shut as hard as you want and hope to die, but you won’t. We leave this life when God has appointed us to. Second, life does have an eternal component. All of us WILL live somewhere after death. Thankfully, Scripture tells us we can choose to accept Christ and spend eternity with Him in Heaven or we can refuse to accept Christ and burn forever in Hell. Man may not like these choices, but it is God–not man–that gets to make the rules. As for Terri’s husband knowing her well enough to determine what was best for her…you really need to read up on the facts of that case. There was substantial evidence that he was and is a complete SLEAZE. Would you want a man who refused to even allow doctors to give you therapy to prevent your arms and legs from curling up, a man who jumped into the arms of another woman, a man who caused such great pain and heartache for Terri’s family…would you want a man like that determining your fate? Perhaps God in His mercy will never put you in that situation, but your view of this family’s heartache is sickening. I certainly hope you are not in the medical community…I could see you being one of those nurses that “mercifully pulls the plug” on some unsuspecting patient.

        • Karolyn

          You have your beliefs and I have mine; and I do respect your beliefs.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Such pious BS.

          • http://deleted Claire

            I know one thing–if I were a vegetable, I would not want to be kept alive. Pull the plug on me. Let me go. I have a Living Will at both hospitals here in town. So does my husband. It makes it a lot easier for all involved. Heck, I don’t want to be in bed for years–and it could become years, many years and what is the point?
            As a side note–I made the comment to my son awhile back that I hope I never end up with Alzheimers–My son replied ” Well, Mom, if you do, you won’t know it.”

          • libertytrain

            He’s right but – what about during the time you’ve been diagnosed, are still aware of what’s going to occur. I think I’d prefer to checkout as well but before I don’t know I’m in some nursing home, sitting near the nurses desk with all the other folks who don’t know they are sitting at the nurses desks…

          • http://deleted Claire

            libertytrain–I would prefer to checkout too if I am diagnosed with any life-altering issue. I do not want to be a burden on my family.

          • Average Joe

            Nadzieja Batki,
            You’re usually much more civil than that….shame on you….Don’t let the heartstrings get in the way of civility….Death of a loved one is always traumatic and tempers flare because of conflicting feelings concerning those loved ones….but in the end, it is about what is right for the loved one and not what’s right for us.

        • Average Joe

          Elevenarrows,

          Do you personally know the Schaivo’s or the Schindler’s? Or, did you get all of your information concerning their personal behaviors etc. from the media….just as 99% of everyone else did? It is not nice to accuse someone of being a “Sleaze” etc….unless you have first hand knowledge of the facts….in some places this could be construed to be liable or defamation of character and actually carries civil penalties. As I stated earlier, I live in the area where this case happened and quite frankly didn’t see the things that you have claimed. You might want to hit the link I posted above and get a few more “facts” about the case before you go on with diatribe. In case you didn’t know there were two different court appointed guardians for Terry…that means that neither her parents nor her husband had any say as to her treatment …that was was left up to her legal guardians and doctors, although their (family) imput was considered…it was not binding on the guardian…period. The only thing that should have been considered….was medical advice from her attending physicians and the data that had been collected over the 15 years in which Mrs. Schaivo was in their medical care…..nothing else should matter at all. Just because you heard or saw something in the media….does not make it true, false or anything other than the media’s spin on the subject…..always remember…anything for ratings and sales….that is the media motto.

          • Elevenarrows

            Thanks for the lecture, Joe, but I do NOT believe ANYTHING from the media. Everyone who knows me knows that I have longed lived by the policy that if the entire media (yes, even Fox News) says something it has to be WRONG. What I don’t understand is that the sources you insist give you true information are media sources…wikipedia and “news in your area” as if somehow being geographically close to what happened gave you inside information. By the way, you should get up to speed on the judge in this case…or should I say, the judges.

            The bottom line is that you and I disagree on much more than Terri’s life or her husband. You seem to think that other individuals should have a say in whether or not someone is worth living and I am fundamentally opposed to that idea.

          • Elevenarrows

            Oh, please, Joe! Your scare tactics of civil liability for calling someone a sleaze would shut down most of the posts on this site and all the other ones on the internet. It would also shut down most conversation in America and elsewhere.

  • PrinChrls

    Thanks Ben! Another GREAT article! I enjoy your work and appreciate the work you put into it!

  • da norseman

    What is really beyond stupid is anyone who submits derogatory comments by condemning a nation or its people as a whole when it was the act of a lone madman, and all who write such nonsense are doped up on substances such as meth, acid, LSD, heroin to name a few. I’ve seen their kind of behavior from time to time and it isn’t pretty. A lot of them are violent, threatening and can become a detriment to society while under the influence, and if anyone or anything is to blame for this recent fiasco in Norway is the psychedelic society of drug abusers who come up with such senseless garbage. Breivik was definitely the kind who came from that kind of society as well as Timothy McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski and Jared Lee Loughner, and it was drug abuse that led them to these heinous, murderous acts.

    • 45caliber

      I agree. And I still believe that anyone who does something like this while under the influence shouldn’t even be arrested and tried in court. He should be shot on sight.

      • Karolyn

        Versus someone who commits heinous cimes and is NOT under the influence of drugs OR alcohol?

        • Jay

          I would shave it down just to, heinous crimes, irrespective of drugs or alcohol levels!

        • 45caliber

          Karolyn:

          If they commit a bad act they should be punished. But the idea that they should be innocent because they were on drugs at the time is the thing I can’t stand. If drugs caused them to do this, then they were guilty of taking the drugs. Any other excuse is only an excuse. Shoot them and save the rest of us money.

          If they are NOT on drugs at the time but did perform some act like this (and it can be proven as this one is) then go ahead and shoot them too. If they insist they had some reason, I’d probably listen to their reason – and then shoot them. At least in most cases. But I’d at least listen first.

          • Karolyn

            Let’s talk “regression” – back to the wild, wild west!

          • Jay

            Karolyn: Let’s talk “regression” – back to the wild, wild west!

            Only a bleeding heart liberal would equate dispensing justice to regression. Using the excuse of being under the influence while having committed a heinous crime as a strategy to circumvent justice, is a pure liberal invention. Another clever, liberal invention, designed to rob a victim of justice while allowing the criminal to get off scott free is the idiotic “Miranda rights”, which is denoting or relating to the duty of the police to inform a person taken into custody of their right to legal counsel and the right to remain silent under questioning. Should the police officer fail to read the accused his/her miranda rights, a judge would dismiss the case entirely, irrespective that the accused was apprehended with the smoking gun, or the bloody knife, or had admitted to the crime. Another, is to play the race card, its because he’s black is the reason he was arrested, or hispanic, or muslim, but never because he’s white. Liberals seem to have no pity for the victims of heinous crimes, as they would rather coddle the perpetrators. But liberals have their own measuring rods by way to determine who qualifies as a victim, and who should be considered a criminal. A woman who is receiving counselling, or being advised to consider other alternatives to abortion, liberals would label the poor woman, a victim, while someone who would counsel a woman to consider other alternatives to abortion, liberals would label that person, a criminal. Abortionist/murderers who performs millions of abortions world-wide each year, are considered victims, should but one be killed by someone who opposes abortion, or the murder of the un-born, while the one who murdered the abortionist, is off-course, in the eyes of liberals, a criminal, and rightly so, but not abortionists. A child raised in a conservative home where discipline and guidance is a daily staple, the liberals would consider that child to be a victim. The responsible parents of that child that lavish on that child the important necessities just mentioned, would be considered by liberals, to be criminals, especially, should the parents be; Christian, against abortion, disapproving of the gay-lifestyle, critical of the current president and his policies, and non-commited, or critical of the destructive curriculum that today permeates the education system. This is the upside down, topsy-turvy world of the liberals, where up is down, black is white, wrong is right, evil is good, and good is evil. Liberalism is a disease!

          • Karolyn

            Jana – I never said anything about people not bing responsible for their actions. I just take issue with 45′s statement about just shooting anybody on the spot who is immediately judged guilty of a heinous crime. That’s not what this country stands for.

          • 45caliber

            Karolyn:

            “That is not what this country is about” – now.

            This country has always been about justice. The real problem now – and I don’t necessarily blame the libs entirely – is not justice but what the letter of the law says. This is due to lawyers wanting to make a name for themselves.

            If you go back a hundred years – or even fifty years in some areas – the lawyer defending the criminal wasn’t necessarily trying to get him off if he was guilty as they do now. The lawyer would try for a reduced sentence, etc. but didn’t deny the guy was guilty. And all wanted the guilty punished. Now the lawyers want to get them off, even if guilty, so they can get a reputation and get paid more. Guilt is not an issue any more. Too many people, like you, feel sympathy for the criminal and only voice sympathy for the victims.

            The death penalty is not about punishment. It is about getting someone who is rogue – dangerous to his own kind – out of circulation permanently. A rogue animal is killed by his own kind as soon as they can do it to defend the rest. We should be doing the same instead of insisting the “poor criminal” shouldn’t receive such a sentence.

            The only problem is that even with manditory life in prison (which isn’t really manditory in any state I know about despite their claims) still allows the criminal access to other humans to kill. They may be other criminals but they are lesser criminals and deserve some protection. They may be guards, who certainly deserve protection. But by giving the criminals life, you are actually exposing all the rest to the dangers of that criminal. And I don’t feel that is fair to any of them.

            If they kill and enjoy it as this guy in Norway did, he should be eliminated as quickly as possible.

            Perhaps you aren’t aware – the MAXIMUM sentence they can give him for killing all those kids is 21 years in jail. Nothing more. Certainly not execution. The judge has declared that he will have the spend the next TWO months in jail – but unless the prosecution can come up with some sort of evidence that he is still dangerous, they will then have to turn him loose until his trial – in a couple of years. And when he is tried, unless there is some special arrangement, he will be sent home until they finally get a place in one of their prisons available for him. After he gets to prison, like here, he will be elgible for parole in 10 years.

            10 years for killing 76 people? Most of them kids? For fun?

            A trial is to determine guilt. Nothing more. The guilt of this character is evident.

            Kill him.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Drugs or alcohol have long time side effects on the brain and body chemistry. They just don’t wear out because someone stops using them for a time.
          This is as good reason not to start or continue using drugs or alcohol.
          Making excuses for people when they make bad choices under the influence is not anyones’privilage. Druggies and drunks should be held accountable for the bad choices they make.

          • Karolyn

            Of course, everyone should be held accountable, but don’t talk about addiction unless you know what you’re talking about! All of you holier-than-thou people are sickening. I cannot believe that none of you who speak this way of alcoholics and addicts have had addicts in your families. Every family has one somewhere down the line. Either that or you had one and disowned him. Addiction is a disease and is a lot more difficult to treat than you make it out to be. But I forgot; you’re all perfect!

          • http://deleted Claire

            Karolyn: I am not perfect by any means and I don’t pretend to be. I am me, I am responsible for myself and my own actions. I have never taken drugs, never smoked pot and never drank alcohol like a fish. Furthermore I don’t want to. Back in the early, early 60s we learned about drugs. Sure, I was curious but to be truthful they scared me back then and they scare me now. I want to keep my brain intact for as long as I can. There was a member of my family that was “into” drugs. I believe he is “clean” now but he is creepy as hell. Weird is probably the better word for it. It is like his brain has been fried. No thanks, I will not participate in drugs.

          • Karolyn

            Claire – And there’s the difference between an addict and a non-addict. I wouldn’t expect you to use drugs.

    • Karolyn

      Drug abuse is not necessary for a person to commit heinous acts. Do you know for a fact that all of these perps were under the influence of drugs? You sound like you’ve watched “Reefer Madness” too many times.

      • Jay

        Whether they were or weren’t under the influence, is irrelevant.

  • PainesGhost

    NOTE TO ALL RE: ROB SMITH

    Drone is clearly a libtard spam geek paid for his miserable efforts. Talking points anyone? I frankly don’t know why any of us reply to such droolers. Their only purpose here is to disrupt the conversation and steer it away from productive channels.

    IGNORE THESE BUFFOONS! THEY DON’T EVEN READ YOUR REPLIES except to look for key words or phrases to find on their talking points charts. They seem incapable of integrating new information to create a new world picture. Leave them to their fantasy world and try to only engage in CONVERSATION with those that seem able to actually CONVERSE rather than engage in hateful, misdirected and factually incorrect diatribes.

    I admit, I sometimes can’t stop myself from responding, but then I realize I just wasted ten minutes. I hate when I do that.

    To ALL who love and respect our Constitution and our freedoms and responsibilities, I say GOD BE WITH YOU! To the rest, THE DEVIL TAKE YOU!

    • 45caliber

      I generally respond ONLY to lay out the real facts for anyone who doesn’t know him – or those like him. Once they do learn about him, then they know not to believe him.

  • chuckb

    how about janet reno and waco, the liberals can mark up one for that massacre and they did it legally so they say. give bill clinton some points there too, didn’t he say the buck stops here, of course he may have been distracted by an aide so we will cut a couple of points off.

    • 45caliber

      Reno said she took the blame for the whole thing – and she was probably right from what I have learned about that fiasco. From start to finish.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        45caliber. Don’t you love those weasel expressions “I take the blame or I take full responsibility” when those that use those expressions will do not such things.

    • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

      This is just an opinion, but I always thought that the purpose behind the massacres at Waco and Ruby Ridge was to send a signal to the American people that when government comes for your guns you’d better not resist.

  • chuckb

    this gal works with hillary clinton: an email received 7-28-11

    Through all the talk about Anthony Weiner we have mostly listened to jokes about his private parts and his name. His wife was often mentioned as a victim to his online tomfoolery. Today I want to talk about his wife, Huma Abedin Weiner.
    In 1996, while Bill Clinton was president, he and Hillary met Huma while on a trip to Saudi Arabia. It’s unclear what transpired, but she ended up in Washington DC with close ties to the Clintons. We now know she is Secretary State Hillary Clinton’s deputy Chief of Staff. This is a very sensitive position so we would think Huma was well vetted.
    Huma Abedin Weiner is a devout Muslim. Her brother, Hassan, works at the Oxford Center for Islamic Studies (OCIS) at Oxford University. He has close ties with the Muslim Brotherhood. The Egyptian Al-Azhar University, is well known for a curriculum that encourages extremism and terrorism, and is active in establishing links with OCIS.
    Huma’s mother is co-founder of the Dar El-Hekma women’s college in Saudi Arabia, which has close ties to the Muslim Sisterhood, the female version of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Sisterhood is also known as International Women’s Organization (IWO).
    We watched in Egypt as the left sided with the Muslim Brotherhood to take over the country. We are watching the same thing in Libya, only this time we have sent American forces to help the very same people we are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. DUH!!!

    The left, no matter whether it’s from America or Europe, defends the Muslims at all cost, while making Israel out to always be the bad guy. We are fighting Islamic extremists, and their biggest allies are sitting inside our own government, the Democratic Party. With Huma Abedin Weiner having access to so much classified material, the radicals know our every move.
    I have written in the past asking why we have not experienced any major terrorist attacks. I now know the answer. They have no need to destroy or attack what they are taking over from within. The Islamic radicals learned from history when Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev, the former head of the Soviet Union, said that the communist would take over the USA from within, not with weapons. The left is using our schools and televisions to slowly, methodically give over our country to the radical Islamists, who are also the radical left.
    You can’t turn on the television without hearing how bad Christianity is, while they defend Islam. Sheila Jackson Lee (D, Texas) is not alone when she stood before the podium and said that Christian abortion clinic bombers were comparable to the 9/11 terrorist, or the countless other Islamic terrorists.
    America, we are at war, and the enemy is not across an ocean, it lies within our own borders.

    • Karolyn

      Yeah, and Huma married a Jew and dropped her veil. So she’s a Muslim. So what? Guilt by association?

      • Average Joe

        In many cases….yes….in this case…probably.
        Although everything is open for speculation and personal interpretation of the facts…..some things do scream blatantly in a particular direction.

      • chuckb

        yeah karolyn, guilt by association. there are in the ranks of the goat herders many who don’t wear a veil and would be happy to blow you and lots of your friends to the land of the seventy virgins. of course, then again they may give you liberals a pass, that would be like cutting off the hand that feeds them.

        • Karolyn

          Mopre than half of the Islamic world is under 30, and they are moving Islam into a more secular, less radical state. The day of the radical Islamist is coming to a close. It may take some time, and thre will always be diehards, but it will happen. “Rock the Casbah,” written by Robin Wright explains chages in the Muslim world. She has been a reporter in the mideast for 38 years, so knows a little bit about what she’s saying.

          http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011-07-27/robin-wright-rock-casbah

          • http://deleted Claire

            What about the muslim AWOl U.S. soldier they just arrested? I was very disappointed to hear about this. But all the prisoners in prisons are fast becoming muslim, so I shouldn’t be surprised. This is just the beginning with a heck of a lot more to come. Beware. And I am not being paranoid– it is the truth. And believe me, if I am ever accosted by any terrorist or whatever, they better duck and run. I am ready, I will not tolerate this crap–ever. I have lived a long good life, and I am not about to put up with any garbage from these types of people. Believe me when I say–walk softly and carry a big stick–a stick that is hidden but ready.

          • Jana

            Karolyn,
            I sure wish I could agree with you on this, but the more deeply I get into the Bible, the more clearly it becomes that this will not be so.
            I will try to say this very simply as it is a very deep and time consuming study.
            According to the Book Of Revelation we are in the 5th Seal. We are now in the days of the locust.
            There are 4 stages of the locust.
            1. Gnawer.
            2. Swarmer
            3. Devourer
            4. Consumer
            Studying the Acient Hebrew language the word for locust and the word for Arab or Arabian are the same word, ar-beh.

            The first stage of the gnawer we have seen by the hit and strike methods of the different airplane hijackings, and the raids on the embassy’s as well as bombings and various acts of terrorism. This has been going on for what now at least 30 years and it is still going on. Gnaw gnaw gnaw.
            The next stage is the swarming. What have we been seeing in the streets of Iran, and Libya and all of the Middle Eastern Countries? The people in the streets looking like swarms of people and they are spreading throughout as though this swarming is contagious. They are swarming and growing and becoming more and more bold, and more and more riled.

            The next stage is the devourer. We have to wait and see what that will entail.
            God has called us to be a watchman, so we must watch with our spiritual eyes open.

            Isa 21:6
            6 For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth.
            KJV

            Ezek 3:17-18
            17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
            18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
            KJV

          • Elevenarrows

            What do you mean by “less radical” Karolyn? Does that mean we only have to worry about those over 30 wanting to kill the infidel (anyone that isn’t Muslim)or that they only want to kill us a little bit?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Yes.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        First question. Why did he marry her? Did being in heat overtake his brain?
        Second question? Why did she marry him? Was she a politically usefull plant?

  • particlewoman

    Freak Show Beekeepers…that’s a good one!
    After reading all of these comments, I hereby diagnose all of you with ADD!!

    • Cawmun Cents

      Isnt a particle something so miniscule,that you cant see or detect it without an electron microscope?What!-CC.

  • Elevenarrows

    Sorry for the delayed response…I’ve been working. Many people will lump together all kinds of religions as “Christian”. According to Karolyn’s definition, even Mormons would be considered Christian. Protestant Christians do not consider Catholics “Christian”…they are their own entity.

    As for Ireland, I was not referring to the king’s sins…I was pointing out the violent struggles between the two factions: Catholics and Christians. There is a long, sordid history there that just proves the point that many people view the two religions as quite separate.

    • Jana

      Elevenarrows,
      A person is considered a Christian as long as they have accepted Jesus Christ as their Saviour, no matter what brand they go under.
      I know many Christian Catholics, and I also know some really good Christian Mormons. I am a Protestant. There are different sects in each brand named group.
      If they say they believe in Jesus Christ AS THEIR SAVIOUR, then I will not judge them to NOT be Christians.

      I am just clarifying this point with you as I agree with you on most everything you say.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Jana,you are completely wrong on your supposition. My question to anyone who says they are Christian is can they prove it. If you follow the Bible it lays out the specifics of how you are to recognize Christians,as in by their fruits you shall know them. Better be good fruit inspectors.

        • libertytrain

          Good grief.

          • http://deleted Claire

            libertytrain–I second this–good grief.

          • http://deleted Claire

            libertytrain–I can hear my Mother–”Never argue religion.” But back then we didn’t have all the muslims and the other cults to deal with. Now we do. Everything is out in the “open” and close to where we live. Egads, times have changed and not for the best. Talk about “glory days.” The simple life–and it was wonderful. Now there is a twist at every turn in the road, and nothing is what it seems.

          • libertytrain

            You’re right Claire. These are scary times we are living in and I wonder if a Catholic and a Protestant were up against attack together, would the Protestant dis the Catholic because they think they are not Christian or would they fight like hell to save each other as a team?

          • Karolyn

            liberty – “good grief”

            You got that right!

          • http://deleted Claire

            libertytrain–I would not dis the Catholics–I would be fighting beside them as a team. Same with the mormons, protestants, jews (no muslims–can’t handle that) providing we were fighting for the same cause. Now I am biased but so be it.

          • libertytrain

            Claire and Karolyn – :) smile is all we can do sometimes. And Claire, of course you would as would I and I suspect since Karolyn is part of this thread team, she’d kick butt as a team member as well.

          • Karolyn

            Claire – If we were fighting a common enemy, you would not fight alongside Muslim-Americans?

          • libertytrain

            I know Claire will answer but I’m guessing based on her amazing career she has far more expertise than anyone here to make the decision on whom she will fight with or for.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Karolyn–If I TRULY knew in my HEART and MIND that muslim-Americans would fight for the same cause that I would, then yes, I would fight alongside them. BUT I would HAVE to know this and BELIEVE this. AND I would be concerned that they would TURN on me in battle, and shoot me. There are too many “ifs” for me. I have edited too many manuscripts on terrorism and Karolyn, I honestly have to say I am highly distrustful of them, mainly because they do “stick together” in their beliefs. They jeopardize their own lives and the lives of their families when they turn “against” their muslim religion. If they have honestly “turned” against the muslim religion, why aren’t their lives in danger? Muslims go after their own if they turn against them. And this is exactly why I believe “things are not what they seem” with muslim-Americans.

        • http://deleted Claire

          Nadzieja Batki–Can you prove you are a Christian?

          • Jana

            Claire,
            She probably is, because she says she is. She is also right that we will know them by their fuits, but there are new Christians who might just be learning what fruit is, then there are different sizes of fruit as we all know.
            The Bible says we shall know them by their fuits, but it still doesn’t give us the right to JUDGE, (which is condemnation). If someone tells me they are a Christian they must prove to me they are not.
            Where I do draw the line is when someone comes on here and tries to tell me what the Bible says and tries to give me instructions on what the Bible says and it is quite clear that they DON’T know what they are talking about. I will and have balked at that. I haven’t seen Mr. Bob Wire on this site for a while, but he is certainly not qualified to be anyones spiritual advisor as he doesn’t believe in God in the first place and the mere mention of God (except for himself) makes him mad.
            I am not anyones spiritual advisor either,but I do know my Bible and I do love the Lord my God, and I will give my opinion when it is called for, just like Claire, libertyrain, Kate8, and Karolyn.
            Ha, now that I have vented, you all have a nice day.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Jana—You go, girl!!

          • libertytrain

            Ditto

          • Karolyn

            Jana – bob wire is not the one who is anti-God; it’s Robert Smith.

      • Elevenarrows

        Jana, with all due respect, the distinction I was trying to make is that genuine Christians (as in, those who follow Christ as defined by Scripture)believe that there is ONLY ONE WAY of salvation and that is only through accepting Christ died, was buried and rose again so that He paid the price for our sin. That price being death. Other sects, such as Catholicism, add to that by insisting on works and a human mediator. Scripture is clear that we may not add one jot or tittle to what God has said. I have dear Catholic friends. One was a nun. She is a dear lady who finally read Scripture for herself and accepted that grace alone saves and not grace plus works. Still, she remained for a time within the catholic church because it was what she knew. It as a very hard decision for her to leave it, but finally, she realized that the Catholic church was teaching things that Scripture did not support. Do I believe some Catholics are, indeed, Christians? Absolutely. Does the Catholic church, as a religion profess Christianity as that which God outlines in Scripture…absolutely not.

        • libertytrain

          sometimes there just is no hope.

          • Karolyn

            Right!

    • libertytrain

      It’s not really a religious thing as much as it had become the sad result of a political thing. In modern times as you refer to, the religious problems were created because of politically induced situations and it has festered off and on ever since. They were forced into sides, the Catholics vs the Protestants – Protestants and Catholics are Christians. The two factions are not Catholics and Christians, they are Catholics and Protestants. You are using the term Catholics and Christians which is not accurate. Though what has occurred in Northern Ireland – (not to be confused with Ireland i.e. the Republic of Ireland) have not always created what could ever be called Christlike behavior on either the Protestant or Catholic side.
      87.4% of the citizens of the Republic of Ireland and 43.8% of the estimated workforce of Northern Ireland[2] are Catholic.

    • Karolyn

      Christian is the term given to all faiths who believe in Jesus Christ as savior. Look it up! Mormons are not Christians, although they want to be included under that term. I had a global religion class this past spring, and this is the global understanding. I would dare you to go up to a practicing Catholic and tell them they are not Christian!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        They are not.

      • libertytrain

        Karolyn – I have no idea why people are insisting they aren’t Christians; up until coming here and seeing some postings I had never heard that line. Apparently they have been taught some really odd unfactual things about the Catholic Church.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          People can call themselves anything they want but can they prove what they are.

          • http://deleted Claire

            If you want to be technical, can anyone prove what they are??

          • libertytrain

            Correct Claire – who is the judge – God, Christ, Nadzieja? I’m banking on the first two, not a person with an opinion.

          • http://deleted Claire

            libertytrain–Again, I agree with you.

          • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

            By their fruits ye shall know them.

          • Cawmun Cents

            Well…we may have a conundrum here.”By their fruits ye shall know them.”Interesting.Was He speaking of believers,or non-believers?
            If you are a non-believer,how will you know what a Christian is like?If you are a believer,what is the criteria set forth to make it obvious?Whose fruit are you known by?By our own?What is fruit?
            All I can say is that any work you do for Christ is fruitful.Can others see that work?Do you Bring lost friends to church?Do you help old folks in and out of their coats?Do you cheerfully smile at folks and help them feel happy to see you,or to be at church?Do you give when possible to anyone who asks?Have you aided anyone who asked about Christ?
            Biblically speaking,if you give someone a cold glass of water in His name it is counted as fruit.There is our criteria and His criteria.We woll never know until we meet Him,just how much or how little we have done.But His fruits are what we should strive to see.
            If you do these things for Christ,rather on His behalf,instead of for whatever reward you feel you might achieve in heaven,you are giving fruitfully.But have you led someone to Christ?That is the real proof in the pudding.There are sowers,waterers,tenders,and harvesters.All of these take part in being fruitful.Do not worry if others do not see your fruitfullness.It is Christ who is knowing.

        • http://deleted Claire

          libertytrain–I agree with you.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Libertytrain and yourself, Claire are also stating your Opinion.

          • libertytrain

            Huh?

          • libertytrain

            I had to read it several times to make sense of what it said – your wording was a little off kilter and I’m tired now. Yes. It is each of our opinions – you are not capable of judging me regarding what is in my heart. And I would never presume to know what is in your heart with regards to your relationship with God.

          • Jana

            Nadzieja Batki,

            Please rethink your position, as you are making yourself look pretty bad here. You are sounding very judgemental, and it doesn’t look nor sound very nice.
            John 3:17
            17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
            KJV
            And I don’t think he sent you Nadzieja or me to do that particular job either.

          • libertytrain

            Jana – nicely said – when I see people pointing their finger at who is the “real” Christian and who is not, I feel they have lost a bit of credibility to some extent. It’s not our place to decide. It IS by their fruits – actions that cause us to respect and welcome their thoughts/opinions – no matter their religious preferences or lack of religion.

          • Jana

            Thank you libertytrain.

      • Elevenarrows

        Karolyn, that “global religion class” explains a lot. Are you by any chance studying at one of those wonderful, secular colleges that brainwash our children?

  • Robert

    Have most sunk so low that supporting the Constitution is considered a indicator that one is a terrorist? The Tea Party supporters are true patriots and the most caring people I know. They are the most decent people I know.

    • JeffH

      Robert, same with the ones I’ve met…very decent people and very respectfull.

      • http://deleted Claire

        JeffH– Come to central Illinois and meet some of the members. Arrrggghh!!!

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Why are you against the Tea Party people?

          • http://deleted Claire

            I am not impressed with the Tea party–the Tea Party here in my town supports RINOs. I went to two meetings–the first meeting was nice. Then the second meeting turned out to be totally for the Republicans-and RINOs. I will not attend a tea party that only promotes the Republicans. When the Tea Parties initially started, I thought they were supposed to be neutral. I do not have sufficient faith in the Republicans or the Democrats to promote any of them at this time. I will NOT blindly follow any political party. This is the reason America is in such a mess. Both parties had a hand in this fiasco. Plus the fact with the last election the Tea Party endorsed a couple of dingbats. America does not have TIME for dingbats. We need honest people in government that has common sense and truly cares about America and not the next election. The big problem is: who in the heck can we elect that does not have elections/paybacks stamped on their brains?

        • Jana

          Claire, I heard that you had a bad experience. I don’t know what it was, but I am so sorry you did. This just goes to show that no matter what we are called, we can all make some really bad mistakes and cause someone else to have a really bad experience.
          I agree with the cause, but I have not been to a meeting. The ones that I have met here locally though have been great people.

  • http://deleted Claire

    Has anyone heard the latest? Illinois Rep. Joe Walsh (R)is in hot water. His ex-wife is taking him to court. He isn’t paying his child support.

  • Jay

    How long does it take a mild-mannered, anti-war, black professor of constitutional law, trained as a community organiser on the South Side of Chicago, to become an enthusiastic sponsor of targeted assassinations, ‘decapitation’ strategies and remote-control bombing of mud houses at the far end of the globe?

    There’s nothing surprising here. As far back as President Woodrow Wilson, in the early 20th century, American liberalism has been swift to flex its imperial muscle and whistle up the Marines. High-explosive has always been in the hormone shot.

    The nearest parallel to Obama in eager deference to the bloodthirsty counsels of his counter-insurgency advisors is John F. Kennedy. It is not surprising that bright young presidents relish quick-fix, ‘outside the box’ scenarios for victory.

    Obama’s course is set and his presidency is already stained the familiar blood-red
    Whether in Vietnam or Afghanistan the counsel of regular Army generals tends to be drear and unappetising: vast, costly deployments of troops by the hundreds of thousands, mounting casualties, uncertain prospects for any long-term success ­ all adding up to dismaying political costs on the home front.

    Amid Camelot’s dawn in 1961, Kennedy swiftly bent an ear to the advice of men like Ed Lansdale, a special ops man who wore rakishly the halo of victory over the Communist guerillas in the Philippines and who promised results in Vietnam.

    By the time he himself had become the victim of Lee Harvey Oswald’s ‘decapitation’ strategy, brought to successful conclusion in Dealey Plaza, Dallas, on November 22, 1963, Kennedy had set in motion the secret counter-insurgency operations, complete with programs of assassination and torture, that turned
    South-East Asia and Latin America into charnel houses for the next 20 years.

    Another Democrat who strode into the White House with the word ‘peace’ springing from his lips was Jimmy Carter. It was he who first decreed that ‘freedom’ and the war on terror required a $3.5bn investment in a secret CIA-led war in Afghanistan, plus the deployment of Argentinian

    Read more: http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/47696,news-comment,news-politics,barack-obama-from-anti-war-law-professor-to-warmonger-in-100-days#ixzz1TRZuFE7b

  • Jay

    Obama And His Warmonger Cabinet The Changing Face Of WWIII.

    By Webster Tarpley
    1-7-8

    Presidential candidate Barak Obama — main announced project so far: BOMB PAKISTAN

    Obama’s main foreign policy guru — Zbigniew Brzezinski. Main project: THE DESTRUCTION OF RUSSIA – the surest path to World War III.

    Mark Brzezinski, son of Zbigniew, former Clinton NSC official and top Obama advisor. Architect of the 2004 “people power” color revolution/coup in Ukraine. Main project: THE DESTRUCTION OF RUSSIA.

     Top Obama terrorism advisor Richard Clarke, former terror czar of the Clinton and Bush administrations. Main project: originating the official myth of 9/11.

    Obama’s top Middle East adviser, Dennis Ross, former Middle East negotiator for Bush and Clinton. Main project: play the Arabs against the Iranians to perpetuate Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

    RESULT: A WORLD CATASTROPHE WORSE THAN BUSH.
    DON’T BE DUPED BY OBAMA AND HIS CABINET OF WARMONGERS.

    • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

      I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
      Albert Einstein

  • Jay

    My, how times change. It seems like it was just yesterday that a young Senator from Illinois was taking then-President George Bush to task for the U.S. decision to invade of Iraq, despite the fact there was, arguably at the time, America’s national interest at stake.

    Back then, tens of thousands of anti-war protesters took to the streets in protest, placards of “No Blood for Oil” littered sidewalks, and the Left vilified the President and Congress’ decision to invade. Yet, today, it is as though crickets are chirping over President Obama’s decision to possibly shed American blood in the sands of Tripoli.

    On Friday, after two successful Facebook and Twitter-led (and U.S. supported) regime changes in Tunisia and Egypt, Barack Obama half-heartedly declared that he was he would follow the French and the United Nations into war with Libya—despite the fact that there is no clear and present danger to the United States and whether it is in our national interest is dubious at best.

    Throughout the weekend, the Left has been largely silent about our new war-monger President. Â While there have been a few protests, including in Washington, New York and (of course) Madison, they are nothing compared to the protests from eight years ago.

    So, why the hypocrisy?

    • http://deleted Claire

      Jay–I am in Illinois and I agree with you. I protested the Vietnam war back in the 60s. I took off work and went to the Capital building in Springfield many times, and I am glad I did. If protests are started regarding Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, yes I would protest. No one is doing a damn thing about the situation. It just goes on and on. No one is taking to the streets anywhere in the U.S. I will say both parties have been and are warmongers. Obama has continued the Bush policy and didn;t he vote against it? Correct me if I am wrong on this.
      I say bring our troops home, take care of them and their families, the injured paraplegics, and all veterans. Let those foreign countries take care of themselves. They have been infighting since the world began, this will not change. We can bitch and moan about issues all we want but our troops have committed the ultimate sacrifice while we are armchair quarterbacks. Woulda, shoulda, coulda. Yup–lets get the party started and protest! I am all for it. Every state should have a protest rally. That would really upset the politicians but hey, let them earn their salaries. We could give them all a lot of grief and rightly so. All I know is that I am game.

      I can remember hearing my parents say years and years ago that wars were created for the economy. Well, it sure as hell didn’t work like that this time.

      • Jay

        For sure Claire. There seems to be an eerie silence today with respect to the war in the middle east, in comparison to when Bush was in the White House. Why is no-one, or hardly any one protesting in the same capacity? This is most troubling! Yes, you a correct, Obama was highly critical of Bush with respect to his decision to invade Iraq. As for bringing the troops home, I whole-heartedly agree. Obama made a big to do last month, promising the gradual return of the troops, I suspect it was nothing more then lip service. It seems since 1946, Americans were drawn into European affairs as a result of the 2nd war, and became the baby-sitters, protectors, and political advisers to the Europeans, for the purpose to maintain stability, while at the same time footing the bill for such. It was during that period that the European league of nations was created, the United Nations, Nato, all of which were funded and financially supported by the Americans. And all have turned anti-American and are dictating American policies in the middle east. I say pull out and let them go their way, the hell with them, the hell with them all! Yes, bring our troops, and they’re not just troops, but American women and men, with families, and with dreams.

        You said: I can remember hearing my parents say years and years ago that wars were created for the economy. Well, it sure as hell didn’t work like that this time.

        Yes, times have changed, and these are strange times indeed, and they’re about to get stranger still.

  • chuckb

    karolyn, don’t fall for propoaganda, these revolutions and rebellions going on in the muslim world is being orchestrated by the muslim brotherhood and if you think these people are going to toss the qur’an out the window and change their ways, forget it. most of these people have been taught the qur’an since they were old enough to light a fuse.
    it would be like trying to convince a duck he can’t swim. the islams have one goal, change the world to sharia law and live by the qur’an.
    this is a religion for ignorance. remove it from our shores.

    • Karolyn

      I respectfully disagree, chuck. There is always room for hope…and change. Nothing stays the same.

      • http://deprogrammingservices.com deprogramming services

        I’m afraid you’re mistaken Karolyn. Laws of physics and mathematics are always the same from one age to the next. God’s wisdom doesn’t change, even though from our ignorant perspective it might seem like it does. Certain characteristics of human nature and political realities stay more or less the same from one age to the next too. One of these realities is that Islam has always been at war with Christians and Jews, and it always will be.

        I wish that was not true, because I would like very much to be a friend to everyone. But I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for that wish to come true.

        • Karolyn

          Actually, everything changes, even rocks. A person who doesn’t change and grow might as well not even exist. I saw an interview with a physicist the other night, and he admitted that what’s new today might be outdated in 5 years. There is so much new under the sun that has yet to be discovered. “The only thing constant is change.” Can’t remember who said that.

  • Elevenarrows

    Deprogramming is right, Karolyn…and your talk of hope and change reminds me of the hopeless chains we now have thanks to the last person who talked of hope and change!

  • Old Henry

    They really need to conduct ballistics tests on the bullets to make sure they came from whe warpn(s) used by the shooter.

    This could very well be yet another false flag.

  • Acushla

    As I think of the Hitler Youth why would Norway be so into getting the teenagers becoming members of the Ruling Political Party?

Bottom
close[X]

Sign Up For Personal Liberty Digest™!

PL Badge

Welcome to PersonalLiberty.com,
America's #1 Source for Libertarian News!

To join our group of freedom-loving individuals and to get alerts as well as late-breaking conservative news from Personal Liberty Digest™...

Privacy PolicyYou can opt out at any time. We protect your information like a mother hen. We will not sell or rent your email address to anyone for any reason.