The Obamacare Fiasco

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Obamacare— aside from being a deathcare trap that locks you into a system of medicine that treats symptoms rather than providing cures; doses you down in pharmaceuticals that often do more harm than good and cause more symptoms that must be treated by more pharmaceuticals; limits your treatment options; and was written by the medical-industrial complex to ensure a steady stream of new customers and guaranteed payment from government coffers— is fraught with little nuggets showing that the whole system as designed is a huge fiasco. And it probably is the biggest fraud perpetrated on the American people since Social Security:

  • The IRS, which was recently uncovered to be sharing private data of Tea Party group members and conservative political donors, is in charge of compiling and securing data on all Americans and ensuring compliance.
  • Security testing for the Obamacare database, entrusted to the aforementioned and obviously criminal IRS, is months behind schedule and won’t be completed before Obamacare kicks in this fall.
  • IRS employees, tasked with overseeing Obamacare, have asked to be exempted.
  • That promise “If you like your current health plan, you can keep it,” was a lie.
  • Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius is shaking down companies the HHS might regulate.
  • Despite the delay in implementation of the employer mandate (an unConstitutional action by Obama fiat), employer fines will continue to grow at rates far greater than inflation.
  • Young people, considered the linchpin of the Obamacare Ponzi scheme because they will be paying into the system but using few of the benefits, are learning what it’s going to cost them and are saying they want no part of it.
  • The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates employers will pay around $106 billion in penalties between 2014 and 2022 for not meeting the law’s insurance requirements. That’s $106 billion employers won’t have for growing their businesses and creating more job opportunities.
  • The “Cadillac tax” provision included in the bill is going to send more cities, already struggling with high-cost pension plans and insurance coverage for its employees, into bankruptcy.
  • A rule establishing a maximum limit in the out-of-pocket expenses people may have to spend on their own health care will be delayed until 2015. This means those with chronic illnesses like cancer and severe disabilities may incur thousands of dollars a year in out-of-pocket expenses.
  • More Americans than ever—a significant majority–oppose it.

Other than that, what’s not to like? And oh yeah, Senator Harry Reid has as much as admitted the failure of Obamacare is a planned one. All the better to drive us toward a single payer socialist healthcare system.

Bob Livingston

founder of Personal Liberty Digest™, is an ultra-conservative American author and editor of The Bob Livingston Letter™, in circulation since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Robbie

    The moderator has suggested (in another thread) that the real “cure” for America’s failing health care system is to increase the number of doctors which would then see “prices” of medical care drop due to competition. This sounds reasonable on paper – let the free market of services determine costs. But up till now the free market HAS been in charge of medical services. If the free market was going to produce more doctors would it not have done so already? Fact is it hasn’t.

    In any case I’m all for educating more doctors but how is that to be done? Medical schools are expensive operations to build and operate. Seeing as private enterprise clearly is not interested in this endeavor the task would be left to government by way of grants to existing medical schools for their expansion. But then you’ve got that age old bug-a-bear the big bad GOVERNMENT getting involved in health care and we can’t possibly have any of that now can we?

    • chocopot

      Do you honestly believe that our health care system as it now exists (or as it did until Obozocare began to kick in) is/was “free market?” Are you on drugs? The reason the system was not working and cost everyone so much is because of all the government interference and regulation. There are literally thousands of examples to give you, but I will give you one that should make my point: health care providers are prohibited from marketing themselves over the boundaries of the state in which they are located. Get the point? Competition is what defines the free market and is what helps keep costs and prices down – competition, get it? But the government prevents them from doing that. Does it take a genius to understand what that does to costs and prices?

      • Robbie

        I see your point and agree with you. I should not have used the term free market. Actually in this day and age there is no free market anywhere on the planet. What I was getting at was that the system BEFORE Obomacare was not providing the extra doctors needed to create more competition. Obama is attempting to reform the system and cover more people and reduce dependence on overly expensive ER treatment etc. Sad fact is that the GOP has no particular remedy other than to oppose everything others want to do.

        I don’t know if you’ve seen any of my other contributions but in my view the reforms are amazingly complicated partly thanks to all the compromises that had to happen to keep all kinds of folks on board. I also find the entire health for profit to be a fairly alien and bizarre way of dealing with the health of a nation. America would do well to scrap the Obama plan as well as health for profit and adopt the Canadian Universal Health Care system. It’s simple, sweet, with excellent outcomes and not nearly as expensive as your hodge podge way of doing things. We also don’t hand over 30% of health care spending to insurance company share holders (that’s totally useless!). ALL health care up here is paid out of income and other taxes and all medical services are available to any citizen as needed. I liken it to the fire department (do you have one of those where you live?). Fire departments up here are paid from taxes and if ever your house catches fire or you need to be rescued from a car wreck or whatever else the fire dept. is right there at your service. That’s how we view hospitals, doctors, nurses etc.

        • chocopot

          Robbie –

          If you think Obamacare was ever about improving or extending health care in this country, you are completely delusional. It was, is, and has always been about control. Obama and his gang are control freaks, just like most of those on the Left politically. They seek to control every aspect of our lives. What’s more, the goal in this case, very simply, is: toe the line as we draw it or we cut you off and hang you out to dry (in the case of health care, “dry” becomes “die”). This so-called plan was never intended to work, to become a functioning system. What’s more, even the densest of this plan’s supporters are starting to realize the truth. Some knew from the beginning what this scam was all about so they requested – and were granted – exemption from it. If the plan is so great, if it is such a wonderful reform of such a terrible system, why did so many in the know request not to be part of it? Use your head, man. It is a giant scam. There have been numerous surveys of doctors since the plan was introduced; at least half of the doctors questioned intend to retire or drop out of the system within five years of implementation. If the system is so great, why would they be doing that?
          I will not argue for even a moment that our current system needs change and improvement. But you do not perform brain surgery with an axe. The best first step would be for government at all levels to remove all their regulations and restrictions and get the hell out of the way. Government needs to be there only to protect the consumer, not to establish tens of thousands of rules that do nothing but gum up the works and tie up the system so badly it can barely function for anyone.
          As for the Canadian system, I will be honest and tell you I do not know much about it. What I do know, however, is that every Canadian who can afford it comes to the U.S. for their health care, especially surgery. To me that means there is not much to admire or envy about such a system.
          I know it seems odd, at a quick glance, that health care should be a for-profit system. But you need to look at it from the human nature side of the equation. It is the same for any and every aspect of capitalism. People do their best and work their hardest when the fruits of their labor come back and reward them personally. That is why communism and socialism fail every time: there is no incentive for the workers to work harder – or even hard – because there is no reward for doing so. They get paid the same amount whether they work hard or not. If you want the best doctor/surgeon to work for you, you have to pay accordingly. You get the best when you pay the most. Why do you think the best doctors are in NYC? It is because they get paid the most in NYC. Why do so many foreigners come to NYC for their health care, especially for surgery? Because NYC has the best doctors. That is not an opinion – that is a fact. Ideology will never trump human nature.

          • Robbie

            One of the tenants in a rental building I own is a doctor up here from Duke University. He is a surgeon now resident at the Hospital for Sick Children learning advanced juvenile cranial reconstructive surgery. Apparently Canada leads worldwide in that field. He, for one, told me that he favours a system that simply covers everyone. I also had a similar response from a doctor, a nurse, and a social worker at NYC Presbiterian Hospital when I explained our system to them whilst visiting my brother-in-law who was there for heart surgery. All three of them wondered out loud “why can’t WE have that?” Also when I was in hospital here for a hernia operation my roommate was from a small town in Kansas. His brothers had also been here for the same procedure at our world famous clinic for that. Cost, by the way, to me was $0. My roommate had to pay about $400 which included three nights in hospital.

    • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Robbie,

      You write: “The moderator has suggested (in another thread) that the real “cure” for America’s failing health care system is to increase the number of doctors which would then see “prices” of medical care drop due to competition.” As I am the only responding moderator, and I have never said the real “cure” is increasing the number of doctors, I call this statement what it is: a lie.

      You write: “But up till now the free market HAS been in charge of medical services. If the free market was going to produce more doctors would it not have done so already?” There has not been a free market in healthcare for many years; not since the government (Federal and State) got involved by paying cost-plus and regulating the insurance industry, creating health insurance mini-monopolies and dictating coverage and payments.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Robbie

        Gee wiz, take it easy. On another topic somewhere here you and I had 6 or 7 exchanges about health care as recently as yesterday. Somehow I lost track of where those were exactly so made these comments. I’m surprised you do not remember telling me of the need to produce more doctors which you said would drive down the cost of care due to increased competition.

        • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Robbie,

          You write: “On another topic somewhere here you and I had 6 or 7 exchanges about health care as recently as yesterday.” You are confused. Our exchanges this week have been about the meaning of the 2nd Amendment, creation vs. evolution and what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 6. We have not discussed healthcare in any forum before today.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

          • Robbie

            I’m going to take your word on that. The exchange must have been with someone else. Actually because on this forum identities don’t really matter so I barely look at the names. I simply respond to the ideas at hand.

            But I do want to say something about your moderating and I’d like to speak for all the others who post here. First of all it seems that you personally read every last comment. Is that true? Can it be possible? Wow! Your commitment is certainly admirable. Cheers.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Robbie,

            You write: ” First of all it seems that you personally read every last comment. Is that true?” No. I come on as much as time allows, but I do not read every comment. I have moderators who do, and they often point me to comments that might interest me.

            You write: “Your commitment is certainly admirable. Cheers.” Thank you. And thank you for being a regular visitor.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Don 2

            Hey Robbie, you don’t speak for me…..ever! Got that foreigner?

          • Robbie

            I think your comment here has been separated from whatever it was I wrote so I’m not aware of what has bothered you so much. In any case take a deep breath and calm down. Nothing here is worth getting sick over.

          • Don 2

            The point is, the minority is ruling the majority in America. The minority is telling the majority how they should live, what they should think, how they should act. I don’t need no stink’in idiot liberal minority azzhole telling me a damn thing.

          • Robbie

            Given the way you write and your vocabulary I can see why you have such a problem with smart people.

          • Don 2

            The language was intentional. You’re just too dumb to get it.

          • Robbie

            All of your postings have the same distinctive “style”. Golly gosh dernit. You becha’.

          • Don 2

            Which reminds me, you said that your wife was waiting for you to take her to dinner. A few weeks ago, you were ranting and raving about some freakish chick with a ring in her nose who could dance on water and liked it with men and women the same, and how you managed to get beyond the nose ring thing. Is she your wife now?

          • Robbie

            I recall it was you being rather jealous and wishing you had the ability to get out more (or at all). Also you might want to check out a festival called Burning Man out in the sands near Reno, Nevada. You’ll see the young woman in question there.

          • Don 2

            Jealous and wishing to get out more? Those were your words, not mine. Check back in your postings. Apparently, you have a real short-term memory problem, which came to light in this article when you falsely attributed suggestions to Bob, as was pointed out earlier in this thread. It sounds like a white matter problem developing…..a future nursing home candidate.

          • Robbie

            Just check out Burning Man, Nevada.

          • Robbie

            You should head for Burning Man, man. It’s starting up again quite soon. You could hang out with some pretty hot chicks. Girls who live almost totally free of inhibitions. I bet you’d like to know how that feels. It’s better than being a member of the walking numb.

        • marylou

          Why are you so invested in America’s health care?
          Are you aware that Americans do not care a whit what any Canadian thinks about what we do…or don’t do?
          You are too invested to be anything more than a troll!
          Have a nice day!

          • Robbie

            I have many relatives and friends in America and I spend a fair amount of time in your great country. And health care is certainly one of the most interesting issues anywhere. My opinion is that a country can be evaluated by how well it treats its citizens health care wise. I realize that many Americans are rather myopic but hopefully you have read my views and that they have at least made you think about the issue from a slightly different viewpoint.

          • marylou

            Americans are astute, not myopic!

            Americans believe in FREEDOM of choice in our lives, and that the government that governs the least, governs best!

            You come from the idea that it’s your governments’s job to take care of you and make your healthcare choice, and tax you to make decisions for you.

            If that makes you happy…so be it.

            There is not one person in America that can NOT receive health care under our present system. Witness the thousands of ILLEGALS getting FREE/NO TAX health care by both private and public hospitals.
            America takes care of its people because we care.

            We may not like the users/ freeloaders/cheaters but they are NEVER denied the healthcare they need! That’s fact! That’s how Americans treat everyone in need and always have, making our own decisions ….without government control!

            Thank you for your comments but Americans don’t really need or want advice/opinions on how to manage our Health care or Politics from Canadians.

            BTW:Your viewpoint was examined and rejected.

          • Robbie

            Of course no one is turned away from the emergency room door. We know that. But that’s not the point. ER’s are the most expensive and difficult aspect of health care. The goal in health care reform is to reduce costs to the taxpayer. Giving proper coverage to all which would allow PREVENTION of heath issues will save the country untold wealth in the long run.

          • marylou

            The GOAL of health care is to treat the patient and make them whole by whatever method America deems best!
            And that is not to have the Government decide for us what constitutes excellent health care under their guidelines to cut cost and treatments to meet their concept of who gets care and who doesn’t!

            Who dies and who lives….death panels…. Obamacare spells out that the IRS, not doctors, will make that decision based on the bottom line, cash available!

            As I have said before….Americans value freedom.
            No government should ever have the right to force its citizens to buy anything or have control of our health…because they say so!
            That’s the American way!

          • Robbie

            Is that why the state of North Carolina – I believe – has passed a law telling doctors how to advise and treat pregnant women? I thought Republicans didn’t believe in government getting between a doctor and her patient. And what was that vaginal probe one of the GOP state governments wanted to impose?

          • marylou

            Let’s keep it totally honest! You are in error! Sorry!
            It was passed in an attempt to limit/decrease abortions, a worthy cause to be sure, but a violation of and attempt to, control a woman’s choices!! That’s a no no! See note below!

            “The North Carolina legislature passed a bill last year that requires abortion providers to show women an ULTRASOUND, non invasive (NOT A VAGINAL PROBE..invasive) and describe the images……. etc etc etc

            THE BILL IS ON HOLD and is in the COURTS since , of course, it was CHALLENGED :-)

            Only a legislature dominated by men would be dumb enough to try to pass ANY BILL that denies a women’s right to control her own body!!!

            Your research was shoddy..if you indeed researched it!

          • Robbie

            But we are in agreement. My goodness, you don’t even agree with people who agree with you! Now that’s being contrary.

          • marylou

            Are you delusional?
            Your statements were hearsay not facts.
            Of course we are NOT in agreement!
            Your comment had too many errors in it…you did not check your facts!
            If you mean that you agree with MY bonafide facts, done!

          • Motov

            Control of a woman’s body vs the human rights of an unborn baby,… hmmmmmm,.. Why is it when the baby is born, anyone who takes its life, risks murder charges, and if the baby is unborn, nothing to worry about?

          • marylou

            I don’t know where you intended to go with this, or what your premise is…but I’m not going there!
            It’s not debatable.

            Suffice it to say:

            THOU SHALT NOT KILL…..ANYONE….. of human flesh, inside or outside the womb…..it’s murder.

          • Motov

            Just simply pointing out if it is not human inside the womb,…. What is it then? If you say human, then it has human rights

          • marylou

            I really didn’t want to get into this because it will bring a ton of discord down on my head for the next month from all the haters and murderers and I don’t have time to argue their insane logic/gobbledegook!!

            My premise is that the baby/fetus is a human being from conception and deserves to NOT be murdered.

            There are some who disagree solely because the baby is an inconvenient ‘mistake’. They decide that murder is the solution to correct the ‘mistake’ and they have a plethora of reasons and excuses to try to justify murder.

            I can only control my own morality.
            Thank you for your comment. Have a nice day.

          • Motov

            I know what you mean. As they say,… 50 % of those who go through abortion do not survive.
            Then in the same breath they refuse to terminate murderers because they think capital punishment is wrong? I’m sorry, if you kill someone in cold blood, you violated their right to life, and therefore to make sure you do not do it again, you lost your right to life.

          • marylou

            Thank you…you get it!

  • Robbie

    Here’s a bit of revealing information regarding doctor training. Seems that Medicare funds the cost of training many doctors and a little thing called the Balanced Budget Act capped the number of available slots for medical residents coming out of medical school as part of the reduction in government spending on Medicare. So if anyone really wants to increase the supply of doctors he/she ought to go to the Congress and have then return the spending dollars that used to train doctors. But then these same folks have an ideological problem with the government doing much of anything let alone spending money! So either get over that or quit complaining about the doctor shortage.

    • Don 2

      “Increase the supply of doctors”, you say. Obamacare is the reason many doctors say that they are getting the hell out of the profession, and others have decided not to go into it. It’s no longer worth the sacrifice required.

      • Robbie

        Here in Canada where we have universal health care (you would call it the dreaded socialism!) doctors initially were wary of the then new way of delivering health care to ALL of our citizens. That was decades ago (I think perhaps 50 years by now?). In any case virtually all Canadians are happy with our health care – everyone is covered for any and all health care needs (except cosmetic of course and no dental care covered as they have in Israel). And despite their initial fears years ago doctors on average live in the better parts of town, drive the most expensive cars, and have winter places in Palm Beach.

        • Don 2

          Well hells-bells Robbie, since we’re already short on doctors and nurses both, we can just send 30 million new patients(illegal immigrants) to Canada, and life will be just hunk dory all around!

          And still you Canadians continue to come down here when you need an operation in a hurry. Go figure…..

        • Don 2

          Well hells-bells Robbie, since we’re already short on doctors and nurses both, we can just send 30 million new patients(illegal immigrants) to Canada, and life will be just hunk dory all around!

          And still you Canadians continue to come down here when you need an operation in a hurry. Go figure…..

          • Robbie

            Yes, some rich people will always look after themselves. But that certainly doesn’t mean that public policy should be based on pure selfish greed and self centredness. Let me ask you which YOU think is more important: that uber rich folks be able to buy gold plus health care coverage or that 33 million people all get merely really good health care coverage?

            About four years ago I unfortunately had a medical emergency in upstate New York and spent an evening in the ER of a local hospital. I was looked after really well but they sure did run a lot of tests that I began to think were not all the necessary so I called a halt to it. In any case the hospital was able to rack up a bill for me of just under $18,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You see, up here we don’t think someone who got lucky in Vegas or had a rich uncle leave him/her a major inheritance should get better health care than some working man in a low paying job. Up here all have access to the care they may need and you can’t jump the line. You call that socialism and you loath it. We call that fair and humane.

          • TIME

            Dear rob-bie,
            The $18,000.00 quote for your alleged night in the ER even with every test that’s ever been invented would fail to come even close to you’re outlandish quote of $18K.
            Thus your quaint story is just more 100% total Bovine Waste material.
            Who the hell do you think you’re fooling?

          • Robbie

            Of course I have no way to prove my factual statements to you so you’ll just have to trust me on what I said. I do have the paper trail to prove it. I should have noted that the $18,000 included fees from 3 or 4 doctors who were involved to one degree or another. The doctor who signed me out merely popped his head through the door and said “You’ve been released”. Hopefully he spent a moment looking over my chart first. His part of the bill was $400! The hospital was just fine from what little I saw of it – The Good Samaritan Hospital in Monsey, New York. One neat thing about it was that my episode happened to take place around Christmas time and one of the staff was going around in a Santa outfit to the especial joy of the one or two children that were near where I was. That was a nice touch though to this day I was half expecting old St. Nick to send me a bill too! Have a nice day and try to have a little trust in others as hard as that might be for you.

          • yolds

            Robbie, Not that I would want anything like you have in Canada as far as Socialized Medicine, but how is it that you are comparing what you have there to our up and coming Obama Care?? The 2 programs are not even similar. You pay income tax’s for healthcare, we are being forced to buy insurance to provide health Care, so you see the difference? Our healthcare costs are skyrocketing under this bad bill and it will still leave approx. 30 mill citizens uninsured. Not to mention giving free healthcare to the Illegals in the country. You need to look at what you have and if your happy GREAT, then stay the HELL out of our Politics, you have no clue what you are talking about.

          • Robbie

            As I’ve said elsewhere the Obama plan is an improvement over what you had but still with too many compromises to private enterprise. Why Americans have to fork over 30% of health care spending to share holders of insurance companies is bewildering in the extreme just as one example. Perhaps improvements will be made by the next Democratic President – either Hilary or Joe Biden.

          • marylou

            Aha…your agenda just became obvious….

            Not only do you wish to inject yourself into American Healthcare but our Politics as well.

            As I said earlier…Americans don’t really care what Canadians think!

            Americans don’t give a hoot whomever Canadians choose to lead their country or the fact that you love socialized medicine…because…that’s your business, as it should be.

            No offense, but America’s choices really comes under the heading of none of your business!

          • Robbie

            Spoken like a true American patriot! America could never learn a thing from anywhere else. No way, no how. Nope. You know it all and there ain’t no good idea anywhere on the planet unless it comes from the good old U.S. and A. Gooly gosh gee. You becha’. Gosh dernit.

          • marylou

            Good grief…FINALLY… You get it!
            I didn’t think you’d ever get it.
            Of course I’m proud to be a American Patriot!

            (patriot |ˈpātrēət|
            noun
            1 a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.)

            Americans do learn from…… others mistakes….. like UK and Canadian socialized medicine.
            But Americans, concerning what is best for America, are astute enough not to inflict our citizens with foreigners profound errors of judgement. How can anyone not get it!

          • Robbie

            Clearly YOU do not get it. Lots of sound and fury and hubris.

          • marylou

            I deal in documented facts, not ‘fury’, which allows people like me with ‘hubris’ to run circles around those who have nothing more to offer than the ‘sound’ of their own trite offerings!
            Do have a nice day

          • Robbie

            Golly gosh gee and gosh dernit. You becha’. Ain’t nothin’ to be learned from no place but the U.S. and A.

          • marylou

            “Americans do learn from…… others mistakes.”

            My quote from previous post…which makes your comment ludicrous and…well…stupid!

            Are you reading and comprehension challenged?

          • Robert Messmer

            Actually Robbie since you apparently spent the better part of the night there, I completely believe the <18K bill you mentioned. And personally I suspect at least one of the charges was for St. Nick just called something else. The reasons for a lot of the tests were two-fold, I would guess, one being that they had no medical history on you and were trying to eliminate as much as possible and two here in the US we are quick to sue, so they were trying to prevent malpractice lawsuit(s). Same reason there are warning label on so many items–really Bic, I need to make sure the flame is out before putting the lighter in my pocket? So if they test for everything in the world they are better prepared in the court room. No matter how much the tests cost they are still cheaper than a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

          • Robbie

            Some good points here.

          • marylou

            That’s not true….you have private pay doctors for the RICH who can afford it!! They get an appointment and treatment right away. While you sit on your hands and wait and wait and wait for an appointment!

            The rest of you muddle through with socialized medicine!
            You have a two tiered system..one for the RICH….the other for the rest of you!!

            It’s the truth and you KNOW it….so please don’t deny it….the RICH in Canada get much better and faster treatment than you!! Because they pay outside your socialized medicine and go to the best doctors!!

          • Robbie

            Actually you don’t know what you’re talking about.

          • marylou

            Actually I do know ALL about your system with first hand medical knowledge, to fairly judge what is and is not good medicine!…You are totally clueless about your own socialized medicine…you have to get out more…or at least do some bonafide research on your own.

          • Robbie

            Canada has excellent health care and every last citizen has the right to avail themselves of any and all services as needed. And its all paid for from general tax revenues. We certainly DO NOT have private pay doctors unless it is something like cosmetic surgery. I’m now wondering where the lies about our medical system that you keep repeating come from.

          • marylou

            Not lies and if you don’t know it, you don’t get around much or…you are in denial!
            You are too naive to be believed….or you are a troll promoting socialized medicine across the border.
            Thanks, but no thanks. Do your research!!

          • Robbie

            And exactly what research is informing your comments? I’d really like to get the answer on that from you because Canada simply DOES NOT HAVE PRIVATE PAY DOCTORS and that is simple fact except for cosmetic type stuff like having a face lift. So please answer. I’m sure there are others interested in knowing your searches. But be specific (if you can). A non response will prove your comments FALSE.

          • marylou

            You are too funny..like all researchers I get paid to do research!

            But, it’s easy enough to do your own! All it takes is time, time, time,(obviously you have plenty of that on your hands :-), a little smarts, an inquisitive mind, perseverance, a puzzle solver, and the ability to ferret out that which people don’t want you to know…..
            BTW: a pleasant demeanor is another secret weapon, But you may have to work on that…giving ultimatums, orders and sarcasm are a no no!!
            There you go!

          • Robbie

            Nice try but you have not offered a shred of evidence from your vast “research” to support the falsehood that Canada has a PRIVATE PAY DOCTORS. Therefore it’s pretty clear to all reading this that your blatherings about Canada;s health care system have no validity. Your “answer”, actually, was pathetic in the extreme. You simply do not know what you’re talking about.

          • marylou

            Of course I know what I am talking about!

            You are a lazy twit! Sorry, but I am tired of “know nothings” like you attacking my veracity!

            Why didn’t you tell me you are a clueless buffoon when it comes to research.

            I’ll give you the stuff ANY moron can download on the web by googling “Canadian Heath Care Private Pay”.

            “Public vs. private health care – CBC.ca – Canadian News …
            http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/healthcare/public_vs_private.html Cached
            The Canadian Health Care Coalition argues that … the line because you can afford to pay more. Proponents of expanding private health care to offer more …
            The rise of private care in Canada | Macleans.ca – Canada …
            http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20060501_125881_125881 Cached
            It’s difficult to estimate the full size or scale of private health care in Canada. … he persuaded the Ontario Health Insurance Plan to pay for a patient to be …

            DON”T APOLOGIZE…JUST GO AWAY TROLL!

          • Robbie

            Methinks you didn’t even read the two articles you listed here. Had you done so you would have learned that in Canada it is illegal for anyone to charge a patient for medically necessary procedures. There are heavy penalties for doing so as pointed out in the second article. Of course – as I pointed out in my earlier postings here – one may get insurance to cover the cost of, say, a private room or the cost of cosmetic surgery like a nose job or the cost of a TV in the room or ambulance services. Private health insurance can also be purchased to cover dental work and certain other procedures not normally covered by provincial plans. I noticed in one of the articles mention of the world famous Shouldice Clinic in Toronto that does hernia operations. About 5 years ago I needed such an operation. My GP referred me to the clinic and I was pleased with the result. Although it is a private hospital with only about 75 beds they actually make their money by charging the government for the fact that patients are in private rooms. The place is in a former mansion of some wealthy business man if I remember correctly and the grounds are beautiful to say the least. The doctors doing the operations are payed directly by the government. My roommate at that time was a great fellow from Kansas who had two brothers who also had hernia operations done there. He, being a non-Canadian – had to pay for the operation and room. I can’t remember the amount but it was not out of this world. There was a time when ambulance services were also free but when the service was abused by too many as a way of getting to hospital in non emergencies my province began charging a user fee for that. It’s $45 (which is more expensive than taking a cab to hospital) and the fee is paid by the patient directly to whichever hospital you are going to and goes into the hospital’s coffers. I needed an ambulance not long ago due to a heart attack at 3:00 A.M. 5 days later after an impressive operation I was released. Since then 5 follow up visits involving scores of tests of all sorts plus stress tests plus consultations with cardio guys and pharmacists and nutricionists etc. etc. etc. and cost to me (except for the ambulance) was $0. I am on a number of medications some of which supposedly are very expensive but our government plan picks up the tab for most of that too. I pay a small fee – like $4 – to the drug store for 3 months worth. Needless to say Canadians are pleased with our system. One does hear of complains sometimes about wait times but I totally can attest that when you have a serious issue it is dealt with within minutes. We also – in my province – have an air ambulance service that ferries serious cases from remote areas to two of our downtown hospitals that have heliports on the roof. I’m guessing those are covered by the province but can’t swear to that. Maybe its $45 also.

          • marylou

            YOUR FALSE QUOTE AND INSULTS TO ME BELOW:

            “Nice try but you have not offered a shred of evidence from your vast “research” to support the falsehood that Canada has a PRIVATE PAY DOCTORS. Therefore it’s pretty clear to all reading this that your blatherings about Canada;s health care system have no validity. Your “answer”, actually, was pathetic in the extreme. You simply do not know what you’re talking about.”

            YOU DENIED THAT PRIVATE PAY MEDICAL CARE EXISTS IN CANADA. It is obvious to anyone with third grade reading skills that you have reading comprehension issues.

            Please try not to be a dolt… I simply googled and tossed many varied links to you because you obviously do not know how to research any subject!

            I PROVED TO YOU THAT THERE IS PRIVATE PAY MEDICAL CARE IN CANADA!

            “www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?co… Cached
            “IT’S DIFFICULT TO ESTIMATE THE FULL SIZE OR SCALE OF PRIVATE HEALTH CARE IN CANADA” . … he persuaded the Ontario Health Insurance Plan to …”

            Please run along because you are a low information pest who refuses to acknowledge the truth when it is in your face in a dozen bonafide places.

          • Robbie

            You should read BEFORE you toss.

          • marylou

            Please don’t continue to be a dolt…research to have any value has to consider all views, opinions and facts. That’s what I tossed to you because I am an honest researcher!

            ThE FACTS ARE CLEAR AND DOCUMENTED THAT THERE IS A WIDESPREAD PRIVATE PAY MEDICAL CARE IN CANADA!

            YOU DENIED THAT PRIVATE PAY MEDICAL CARE EXISTS IN CANADA. It is obvious to anyone with third grade reading skills that you have reading comprehension issues.

            PRIVATE PAY INSURANCE is widespread in CANADA.
            That’s a FACT that you were dim witted enough to deny over and over and over!

            I don’t respect people who continue to obfuscate and prevaricate when the DOCUMENTARY evidence is in their face for all to see.
            You lied, intentionally or otherwise! Run along, please!

          • Robbie

            It is illegal according to the Canada Health Act for anyone to charge a patient directly for medically necessary procedures.

          • marylou

            As I said over and over, you need to get out more, observe and research what is under your nose.

            Prostitution is illegal, as well as drugs, illegal immigrants scamming the system, people robbing banks, etc etc etc.

            Like all of the above ….there is also a huge
            Private Pay Medical Underground in Canada for all of those who are willing to pay privately.
            They know that they get mediocre and delayed care under your Government Health Care System.

            ILLEGAL or not..it exists! That is, and was, my point but
            you insist on ignoring facts.

          • Robbie

            Well, finally you agree that it is illegal. And doctors who practice that way are brought to court and fined or worse. I didn’t think we were discussing what the odd person does illegally. And, yes, there will always be prostitution and illegal drug sales – we have laws against those too. Your image of masses of people taking part in an underground medical system is ridiculous.

          • Don 2

            And if I had a medical emergency in Canada, w/o having purchased a special policy to cover me out of the country, I’m sure that my bill would be higher than having an emergency in the states.

            We had 10 million uninsured prior to Obamacare. It would have been much cheaper and more logical just to have the government insure these 10 million, rather than screw everyone else who already had an insurance policy and was pretty much satisfied with it.

            I’m all for helping those who cannot help themselves. I’m not for spreading the wealth around to those who are just plain lazy.

            The illegals…..they don’t deserve a damn thing from the American taxpayers, except to be sent back to wherever they came from.

          • Robbie

            I have a brother-in-law living in New York state. He barely gets by and has had no health care insurance. because of that he always neglected his health – probably never went to a doctor due to lack of funds. Then, 3 years ago, he started having heart problems which had been neglected and were suddenly so bad that he ended up in the ER outside of Binghamton. He needed drastic heart valve replacement and was transported to Presbeterian Hospital in New York City. He got amazing care and we went down to be there during about 10 days in intensive care. Heaven only knows how much that all cost but because he had next to nothing the entire tab was picked up by YOU and other taxpayers. Had America a universal health care system where folks were not afraid to go to the doctor for fear of bankruptcy my brother-in-law could have avoided the dramatically expensive care he finally got and the taxpayer would have had far less of an expense. The way I see it Obamacare is going to create those
            savings tens of thousands of times over once it all kicks in. I realize that folks on this site have an iron trapped mind shut tight on this subject so you will have to wait and let time tell.

          • Don 2

            Robbie, how is it that you, a Canadian, has been assigned to be a regular Democrat troll on PLD? Don’t tell me that you’re here just for fun because you spend way too much time here to make that even half-way believable. Who is paying you to contest everything that does not support the Obama regime?

          • Robbie

            Actually my wife would totally agree with your point about how much time I spend on this! She’s currently standing at the door waiting for me to take her for dinner with all the money I get from the White House (just kidding). Have a nice evening.

          • marylou

            America is a charitable nation and of course were willing to help your brother in need! No question!

            You proved my point….no one in America is denied excellent Health care and never has been.
            We don’t need government control to take care of those in need!
            That’s the American way that you will never understand because you are not an American.
            You are Canadian with a Canadian mentality!

        • marylou

          C’mon you jest!! The Canadian health system is a joke and fraught with incompetent doctors, long waits and not the least of which…a year or more for elective surgery…you know, the hernia, the prostate etc etc.

          Your competent doctors crossed the border long ago! If you need an Intravenous fluid injection, stop at the drug store, pick up all the supplies, go home, call and some non-medical individual who may or may not remember to wash his/her hands will try to get your needle in on the first try!

          FACT, not fiction and common practice in Canadian socialized medicine!

          My relatives, who are NOT rich come to the USA for their medical treatment and surgery! Socialized medicine does NOT make MDs rich…unless they have a private, pay for service practice which many of the good MDs practice…That becomes excellent medicine for the RICH WHO CAN AFFORD it. and socialized medicine for the rest!!

          • Robbie

            A new tenant of mine in one of my rental buildings is a surgeon from Duke University. He’s up here at the world renoun Hospital for Sick Children learning the most up to date procedures in infantile facial corrective surgery. He is here for 2 years with his family and will return to the U.S. a better doctor. Personally when I needed a hernia operation (at the world famous Shouldice Institute in Toronto I waited but one month and that was because I had to lose 15 pounds before they would operate. My roommate was from a small town in Kansas. His two brothers had come here for the same procedure earlier and he noted that no place was as good anywhere in the mid west your country. Cost of that 3 day stay to me was $0. The American patients had to pay something like $500 if memory serves because they were not, naturally, tax payers up here. It is not rare for Americans to avail themselves of medical treatments in Canada – especially from American border towns if a large Canadian city is on the other side. Interestingly enough even Sarah Palin admitted that her family in Alaska would regularly get medical treatments on the Canadian side in our Yukon Territory. I’ll also point out that except for a very few specialized clinics we do not allow private pay for service practice. I have no idea where some of your comments came from but they certainly do not reflect reality. Every once in a while one reads about some doctor who gives some special treatment to some rich person or to a friend but this is unfair and also illegal and penalties would ensue.

  • Louis Lemieux

    Republicans have never feared that health care reform would fail the American people, but that it would succeed. Along with Social Security and Medicare, successful health care reform would provide the third and final pillar of Americans’ social safety net, all brought to you by the Democratic Party. The GOP was never really concerned about a “government takeover of health care”, “rationing”, “the doctor-patient relationship” or mythical “death panels,” but that an American public grateful for access to health care could provide Democrats with an enduring majority for years to come.

    • yolds

      Are you out of your mind???? You think Social Security and Medicare are successful programs?? If the Demonrats would have used the money in Social Security for what it was meant for and not as a giveaway program for votes they wouldn’t have a IOU for nearly 100 Trillion $ in it… our payments would be 5 or 6x’s what they are now, if you think that does not exist your a fool. Medicare costs have skyrocketed since its inception because of the abuse and fraud. If you were to give me back all the money that I personally have paid into SS and Medicare I could retire now and live quite comfortably for decades. NO Louis, the Gov’t does NOT know how to spend and save my money more wisely than I, I would love to opt out of both programs and force the rest of the country to become personally responsible for their own welfare! I personally am sick and tired of supporting deadbeat a–holes that could work but live off of the hard working people. The only thing the Democrats have succeeded in doing is burying future generations in mountains of debt and destroyed the American Dream. Maybe we need to split the country in half, one half for Conservatives and one half for liberals….. once you have to pay for your own liberal programs and giveaways you might see the light.. My money would be on the conservatives, you see without us, your programs fail!!

    • Robert Messmer

      If the plan is so wonderful why aren’t the politicians who voted for it being forced into it? For that matter why are government employees exempt from Social Security? BTW Social Security is/was a ponzi scheme from day one. At the time it was enacted average life expectancy was around 57 years of age. So even though few initially were subject to the tax, even fewer were expected to live long enough to collect a penny. Too bad the politicians didn’t have the foresight to see that people would live longer as health, food production, etc improved or they would have indexed it to life expectancy from the get go.

  • Warrior

    I wonder how the “legal” community is going to fare under the “single payer” system? Will suits against gubmint hospitals and union doctors be allowed? Stay tune. Of course, much like “private charter scrools” there will be the equivalent “charter hospitals” so the politicians and they’re cronies won’t have to mix with…………………………………..well, let’s just refer to them as the “cake crowd”!

  • Paul

    I find it puzzling how these socialist hoodlums support a law that nobody read. All of the sudden they don’t like what the are finding out but have no balls to say the truth. This whole Obummercare crap is nothing less then a government scam to get more money from us and it is set up to, eventually, give full control of healthcare to a single payer system; our government. It does not take a brain to figure out that if you thought our healthcare system was expensive before, just wait until the true costs comes into light. You can not add some 150 million people to a system along with tons of government costs and expect it to be cheaper. It will surely push us over the financial cliff. It looks like they are doing it in purpose to destroy the USA. There are no other logical solution.

  • Paul

    Also, just wait until the young adults gets slapped with fines for not participating in the system. There is going to be a mess all over our nation. I’d hate to be a politician when the crap hits the fan.

  • mathis1689

    I call it Commiecare for the simple reason that regardless of what good it may or may not do the US government has no business whatsoever forcing anyone to buy health insurance. Obama,Pelosi,Reid and all the rest of the Communists in Washington DC can lie until their teeth fall out but only by twisting the Constitution like a pretzel will you ever find that Commiecare passes Constitutional muster. Of course the US government hasn’t cared in the least about what the Constitution actually says or means since 1861 if not earlier than that.

  • http://www.OlGreyGhost.Blogspot.com/ Ol’ Grey Ghost
  • ridge runner

    Ever see any gbument create any program that isn’t aroyal snafu? The Great Society Medicare tripled office visit costs in 2 years, not because of meds cost but the unnecessary paper fill out time needed. Any time any socialist communist Democrat Party puke gets in to a power spot, things go to the dumpster , services get worse and prices sky rocket.

  • Alan

    We were swindled on social security and medicare by lying officials with their lock boxes, which never existed and the money was stolen for other purposes, and we should trust them with another huge program ? I dont think so. Everything they touch becomes a game of three card monte.

  • scott miller

    And what about paying taxes toward something you have no intention of using or wanting and getting fined on top of the taxes you are paying what sense does that make, i am paying for a program i do not want and have no interest in and you want to punish me for paying into a program i do not wish to have anything to do with.

    This monstrosity needs to die now, this unregulated taxation without representation , less we really want to consider us represented when our politicans dont read the bills they are passing and the bills they are passing are written by insurance companies and other big money special interests. no we have no representation on this bill, we have no say when over half the nation sees this bill as a bad thing.

    And yet our leaders plow on with it because they got their checks from big insurance. they win we lose yet again.

  • Quester55

    All I can see happening when I read about OBAMA’S Medical-Tax-machine, We call Obama-care, is a Tax-Payer, paying for his Right to be Poisoned after these Medical sellouts treat our Ills with Unproven, Untested Drugs, like We where Their lab-Rats or something!!
    Obama & wife remind me of a French Queen that said, if there Starving, Let Them Eat Cake!
    In the end, She Got rid of the many Headaches she had & Never suffered another one, Ever again!!?

  • Rick

    What is going on now? History repeating itself the works of the antichrist in full power from Daniel chapter 8:

    23 “And in the latter time of their kingdom,
    When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
    A king shall arise,
    Having fierce features,
    Who understands sinister schemes.
    24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
    He shall destroy fearfully,
    And shall prosper and thrive;
    He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.

    25 “Through his cunning
    He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;
    And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
    He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
    He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
    But he shall be broken without human means.

    Meaning God will take him out, not by human means, maybe Airforce 1
    will go down due to overuse of spreading lies all over the world…

    • Motov

      Or get beaned by a stray golf ball?

  • Rick

    As the Good Book says about abominations and liars from Proverbs
    Chapter 6 , 11,12,26 and Revelation 21. Old and New Testaments
    judgments…

    Proverbs 6:
    The Wicked Man
    12 A worthless person, a wicked man,
    Walks with a perverse mouth;
    13 He winks with his eyes,
    He shuffles his feet,
    He points with his fingers;
    14 Perversity is in his heart,
    He devises evil continually,
    He sows discord.
    15 Therefore his calamity shall come suddenly;
    Suddenly he shall be broken without remedy.

    16 These six things the Lord hates,
    Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
    17 A proud look,
    A lying tongue,
    Hands that shed innocent blood,
    18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
    Feet that are swift in running to evil,
    19 A false witness who speaks lies,
    And one who sows discord among brethren.

    Proverbs 11:1
    Dishonest scales are an abomination to the Lord, But a just weight is His delight.

    Proverbs 12:22
    Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, But those who deal truthfully are His delight.

    Proverbs
    26:25
    When he speaks kindly, do not believe him, For there are seven abominations in his heart;

    Revelation 21:
    8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,
    abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all
    liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and
    brimstone, which is the second death.”
    27
    But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes
    an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s
    Book of Life.Jesus said to “send forth His Gospel (His word, the Bible)to the uttermost parts of the world” Pass this on…