The Obamacare Bait And Switch

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The Internal Revenue Service theft squad issued its final rules on the Obamacare individual mandate Tuesday. They reveal that the whole thing is a bait and switch to benefit a few crony corporations and transfer wealth from the people, as we have told you from the beginning.

While the employer mandate has been delayed, the individual mandate remains in place. The new system requires individuals to carry some minimum health insurance or pay a penalty (read tax). But surprise! The tax will be lower — much lower for most people — than the cost of their existing insurance plan in 2014.

The tax for 2014 is $95 or 1 percent of household income, whichever is greater. In other words, a single person making $50,000 per year would pay a tax of $500 for not carrying insurance. By 2016, the taxes increase to $695 or 2.5 percent of income. The person earning $50,000 per year would pay a tax of $1,250.

According to ehealthinsurance.com, a 30-year-old male in Charlotte, N.C., can expect to pay between $60 and $215 per month for a health insurance plan with high deductibles, some $5,000 or more. That comes to at least $720 for a bare-bones plan. In Albany, N.Y., rates range from $165 to $1,150; in Columbus, Ohio, $50 to $110; in Tucson, Ariz., $41 to $145; in Sacramento, Calif., $94 to $227. As you can see, the rates are all over the board, depending on the State in which one lives. (For an insurance quote in a specific location, go here.)

But a study by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that the average worker paid between $863 and $1,065 per year for single coverage in 2013, while the average family of four paid between $4,226 and $5,284.

For many people (if not most), the penalty is so much less than the cost of buying insurance that it makes sense to drop insurance altogether and pay the tax. And Kaiser found that many employers will find it easier to drop coverage and shift employees to the exchanges rather than try to jump through the hoops needed to comply with the employer mandate. Once large numbers of premium-paying customers are driven out of traditional health insurance, Obamacare has them in a trap.

All but a few crony insurers will go out of business. The few surviving crony privileged insurers will then get all the business through the exchanges; and the progressives will be one step closer to their goal of a single-payer, government-provided insurance system.

But there is a problem for the statists in the Obamacare law: There is no defined penalty for not including the special Obamacare compliance form in your tax return. It cannot garnish wages or seize property. Section 1051 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act reads: “Such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.”

There is still something you can do to vent your displeasure at the fascist, crony system they’ve created, even if it probably won’t make a lot of difference. Call your Congressweasel today or attend a town hall meeting (if your Congressweasel is brave enough to hold one), and say in no uncertain terms that Obamacare should be defunded in the upcoming continuing resolution. The weasels probably won’t listen, but at least they’ll know why you’re shouting them down when they come begging for votes next year.

Personal Liberty

Bob Livingston

founder of Personal Liberty Digest™, is an ultra-conservative American author and editor of The Bob Livingston Letter™, in circulation since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • peter

    You can be absolutely sure that Obama has the proverbial ” forked tongue” and just believe the opposite to anything he says!

  • Christopher Paul Condon

    The single payer system may be the left’s real goal in passing Obamacare, but it is not going to work out for them. Either Obamacare or single payer would be astronomically expensive, and Washington is running out of money. If Obamacare is not repealed, it is only a matter of time, and not very much time, before Washington runs out of money and defaults.

    • chocopot

      That’s the goal, my man: bankrupt the country and destroy the economy. That was Bozo’s goal all along, and he is on the verge of accomplishing it. When that happens, this country will grind to a halt; expect a civil war at that time.

    • Bill

      Chris,
      The people that are pushing Obamacare either are very stupid when it comes to running things or they have another motive.
      In the countries where public health care works, such as Taiwan, they understand that if they want to have enough money to pay for it, they have to have the private sector firing on all eight cylinders. And you do that by keeping that engine tuned to the max/ which means lower taxes, lower regulation and respect for the goose that lays the golden eggs.
      Running it any other way is destined for failure

  • AZWarrior

    And when the ‘single-payer’ (which all this is intended to force) defaults…. A Health care system in utter ruin.

  • Warrior

    The health industry will mirror exactly what the edumacation system looks like today. Bet on it.

    • chocopot

      If you mean that nothing will work correctly or accomplish anything, I am with you on that.

    • Bill

      Good comment, Warrior
      It is going to get to the point that only the strong will survive. The stupid will continue to fonder in their folly.
      Life is tough, it is even tougher if you are stupid

  • Ronr

    Get over it kids the ACA is here to stay. Not as good as single payer but a start.

    • chocopot

      “Not as good as single payer but a start.”
      You really are deranged, aren’t you?

      • Alan

        Must be on some everything is beautiful drug.

        • chocopot

          Remember, “Liberalism is a mental illness.”

          • Dave

            Correction:

            Remember, “Conservatism is a mental illness.”
            Reagan triped our debt and wreck the middle class with easy access to credit. Allowed over 200 Marines to get blown up with nobody being held accountable
            Bush 1 started a useless war in Iraq and doubled our debt
            Bush 2 allowed 3000 people to die on 9/11 (he ignored the warnings) then he used 9/11 to pass the patriot Act and invade Iraq… also doubled out debt and was the worst president in our lifetime…
            This is the conservative legacy.

          • chocopot

            With the low information moron voters who voted for Obozo, your historical revisionism might work, but not here. You can make up whatever stories you want, but facts do not change for idiots like you just because you want them to.

          • Gagal24

            75% of the soldiers lost in Afganistan has been under Obamas watch. The debt has more than doubled since Obama has taken over. The Debt rose $4.899 trillion during the two terms of the Bush presidency and almost 6.5 trillion in the 41/2 years since Obama has been in.The federal budget sent to Congress last month by Mr. Obama, projects
            the National Debt will continue to rise as far as the eye can see. The
            budget shows the Debt hitting $16.3 trillion in 2012, $17.5 trillion in
            2013 and $25.9 trillion in 2022. I don’t know where you get your “facts” but the are WAY OFF!!! You talk about legacy…this is Odumbos legacy..he has been in office to long to be able to blame it on anyone else! Least you forget the Demonuts had control of the House and Senate when he was first elected and still couldn’t do anything but devide this once great nation!!

          • chocopot

            He makes it up as he goes along, just like all of those on the Left. See my comment above.

          • Dave

            Gagal,

            Let me help you out… Obama put the focus of our war back where it belongs in Afghanistan/Pakistan… you know where the attacks were planned from????
            Now what did Iraq have to do with 9/11? You know that war is going to cost this country 3T dollars once its all said and done. Thanks to Bush 2 and conservatives…. Now conservatives get religion on spending? LOL

            Now riddle me this…In a recession which we are just getting out of, what happens to Gov receipts from taxes and what happens to spending to get people back to work? Bush only had to deal with this major recession in the last 8 months his presidency. Then Obama also was dealing with 2 wars on top of that and HC costs and a system that was not sustainable with the population getting older…
            As you can see from the below article, as economic conditions improve, the amount of debt we are amassing is coming down.

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/05/budget-deficit-trillion-cbo_n_2623910.html

            But we have not fixed the fundemental nature of our economy which means changes in trade, taxes and investment’s in this country’s infrastructure. So we have a temporary improvement in the economy.
            Chocopot and others like him just believe the conservative kool-aid and have no sense of history or math… Its sad really.

          • chocopot

            Citing Huffington Post shows everyone you are just a left-wing psycho with no credibility whatever.

          • Dave

            Yet you believe the right wing psychos here and you arehappy to buy whatever right wing blowhard like Rush, Hannidy says I see…

          • chocopot

            Did you see anyone cite or even mention any of those people? Your argument has as much credibility as your comments.

          • Dave

            Chocopot…
            Sorry, thats right… you have no sources, you just nod your head in blind agreement extremists like WAR, Myers etc

          • chocopot

            You are truly deranged and not worth any more of my time.

          • Dave

            Sure thing corporatist…

          • chocopot

            What a moron…

          • Bill

            Dave
            Tell us the story of Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny while you are at it

          • Dave

            I am not a conservative religious nut so I don’t believe in fairytales like you do Bill.

          • Bill

            Dave,
            There you go again, forming assumptions based upon your emotional knee jerk reactions to someone that does not agree with you. It would be such a blow to your ego to find out that you were wrong.

          • Dave

            Glad you and your conservative friends here never make assumptions about others… Tell me what it is like to be a delusional conservative and never be wrong and have your ideology never make a mistake.
            I am a liberal and liberals make mistakes… we can admit to them… Conservatives? Not so much… so tell me what it is like to be so right all the time?

          • Christopher Tutt

            LOL Where the attacks were from… So you believe that official story. What a sad sad world we live in where people believe that you can bring ANY high-rise down with a fire. OR NORAD would EVER miss a single target that has was a treat. Never had and never will unless they are told to leave it alone.

            This system is going where they wanted since. The patriot act, the increased police state, the economy crashing. All of it has been planned and to think otherwise is to show your ignorance on who runs this show.

          • Bill

            Dave,
            No one needs your help. That would be like asking the IRS to be your financial advisor

          • Bill

            Gaga,
            You obviously have a brain on your shoulders and can see what is hitting you in the face.
            The liberal posters are blinded by politics and cannot see a thing

          • Jim S

            Dave, Dave, Dave. At least learn how to write a sentence. You must be a product of today’s liberal public education. Reagan triped our debt and wreck the middle class with easy access to credit. Really?Bush 1 started a useless war in Iraq. Did I miss a war somewhere? Bush 1 kicked Sadaam’s sorry butt out of Kuwait. He did not start a war in Iraq. Bush 2 allowed 3000 people to die on 9/11 (he ignored the warnings). The “pilots” entered the U.S. and trained under Slick Willy’s administration. The FBI was warned and ignored the warnings during this time. As far as Bush 2 being the worst president in our lifetime, he has at least 2 ahead of him, Carter & Obama (both Democrats).

          • Dave

            Jim S,
            Bush 1’s diplomat also told Saddam that local land disputes were “none of our business”… Could it be he needed another boogeyman now that the USSR imploded on itself?
            Nah…
            Bush 2 was given specific memos about the impeding attacks and he and Rice sat on their hands… before 9/11… The GOP accused clinton of “wagging the dog” for going after Bin Laden because nobody in this country cared about Bin laden before the attacks on the Trade Centers
            Bush 2, give me his list of accomplishments Jim… Let me know… Carter got Israel and Egypt to make peace…Obama got HC reform passed, consumer protections against preditory lending practices done…
            Let me know what makes Bush 2, (Iraq, 9/11, Chinese Spy plane, Fed Katrina Reponse, international laughing stock, no diplomatic victories) a better president than Carter or Obama.

          • Bill

            Dave,
            Go back to your computer and read up on what your handlers want you to say. It is obvious that you have no original thought

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave says — “Reagan triped our debt”.
            When Reagan took office the National Debt was $930 Billion.
            When Reagan left office the National Debt was $2,680 Billion.
            That was an increase of $1,750 Billion over 8 years, or an increase of $218 Billion per year.
            When Obama took office the National Debt was $10,700 Billion.
            The National Debt is now $16,900 Billion.
            That is an increase of $6,200 Billion over 5&1/2 years, or an increase of $1,100 Billion per year.
            So Obama has increased the National Debt at 5 times the rate that Reagan increased it, yet Shill Dave is strangely silent about that.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave says — “Reagan triped our debt”.
            When Reagan took office the National Debt was $930 Billion.
            When Reagan left office the National Debt was $2,680 Billion.
            That was an increase of $1,750 Billion over 8 years, or an increase of $218 Billion per year.
            When Obama took office the National Debt was $10,700 Billion.
            The National Debt is now $16,900 Billion.
            That is an increase of $6,200 Billion over 5&1/2 years, or an increase of $1,100 Billion per year.
            So Obama has increased the National Debt at 5 times the rate that Reagan increased it, yet Shill Dave is strangely silent about that.

          • Bill

            Very good analogy, Choc,
            I guess they are just a victim and not responsible for their actions

    • Blank Reg

      If the ACA is here to stay, than I’ll get ready to leave. I’ll come back to pick up the pieces after the collapse. Maybe.

    • speedle

      Here’s a flash for you Ronr. The ACA is definitely not here to stay. It wasn’t even designed to “stay”. It was designed to make a mockery of market economics so that public ignorance (like that displayed by yourself) would allow the Statists to take control of the entire healthcare process.

      The battle that is yet to be fought will be the direction to go after the ACA has literally collapsed under the weight of its own incredible legislative incompetency. We will then see if we are going to single payer vs. free market healthcare Ronr. Hopefully, by then even the ignorance of the sheeple will have given way to some measure of common sense.

    • Bill

      Ronr,
      We shall see

  • steve

    reamed , steamed, and dry cleaned. end of story. game , set , match. turn out the lights, the party’s over. etc…..

  • wavesofgrain

    This is disgusting. If this admin’s goal was to see that all those uninsured received health care, he would not have created this weath distributing monolith, that includes a healthcare army and hundreds of thousand of government (IRS) employees for watchdogs and corrupt bias. ..taxing the working class and property owners disproportionalty to pay for it.

    This country could have simply implemented a ONE PENNY National Sales tax to cover anyone that has no insurance making under 50K a year. As we already have a Government Health Care Plan called Medicaid/Medicare, all they would have to do is establish a federal department of same so the states would not be responsible. SO SIMPLE!

    That way, all the illegals and welfare recipients would be contributing at least SOMETHING for their benefits, and they still could be saying they’re sticking it to the rich, as those already with healthcare (NOT using govt plan) would still keep their own insurance and still be kicking in a penny for the indigent.!

    • chocopot

      As is the case with gun control, this entire issue has nothing whatever to do with what it purports. Do you think Obozo and his uber-rich handlers and the communists – er, I mean the Democrats – give a rat’s azz about providing health care/insurance for ANYONE? That is hysterical. No, what they care about is controlling all of us. If this disaster is ever fully implemented, what it will mean is that any health care you receive will be at the whim of some bureaucrat taking his orders from some political commissar (just like in the old Soviet Union). The bottom line is that you keep your mouth shut and toe the line or you get no health care. If you do not behave and you get sick, or the vagaries of aging start to catch up with you, they will simply deny you care and leave you to suffer and then die since you are of no use or value to them. If you doubt this, you are either a liar or a self-delusional fool.

      • Bill

        Good comments, Choc
        We have to rise above this fiasco and find our own specific doctors and pay them without insurance. Although that is going to take someone being mindful of their own health and try to live a healthy lifestyle to avoid disease.
        And as always, the poor will just get sicker and die

        • chocopot

          When you mention “the poor” like some distant group, keep in mind that the policies in effect today are rapidly leading to all of us becoming part of that group.

          • Bill

            Hi Choc,
            It just adds another dynamic to our own success. As well as all of the hard work involved with building a business and trying to earn a profit, we now have to learn how to work the system also.
            “Fair” only means that you give up your stuff willingly

          • Christopher Tutt
    • Bill

      Waves,
      Your comments are obvious to the person with half a lick of sense. But the dumbed down masses bought it hook line and sinker

    • Walt

      The problem with “another national tax” is that when you study the history of the Federal Income Tax, it was also supposed to be just a “tiny tax”, and as with other government programs, soon ballooned into a massive repressive tax system.
      Let’s please keep the government’s “Camel Tax Nose” out of the tent.

      • wavesofgrain

        In another era when government corruptness was checked, it was not an option. But now, this government will continue to attack the makers until they have nothing left. Obamacare is NOT the answer for those that are uninsured…but my idea IS!!!!

    • Quester55

      Wave, So Close & yet so Far, Almost everything you’ve stated is True, However, This Country Didn’t get into with it’s medicaid/medicare Systems, Until Our Self-serving Government & presidents started Dipping into those funds set aside for our Retired & Poor! Trillions have been STOLEN by the Government & Those thieves DEMAND that WE CITIZENS, pay it back!!
      However I do Support the Idea of planting a tall OAK tree in front of the White House, As it’s so hard to find a good Hanging Tree, These Days!

  • real talk 1

    The federal government don’t just want you to pay but they also want you dependent on them so they can force your vote , but if they can operate illegal so can everyone else, we could just ignore this whole thing all the fed gov. is doing is making the same life style we left in England.

    • Bill

      Good comment, Real
      It’s kind of like taxation without representation. Where have we heard that before. I wonder if they still teach that concept in the public schools

  • Dave

    Here is a good piece by EJ Dionne Jr of the Washington Post

    Are you ready
    for the Big Magilla of American politics? This fall, every important domestic
    issue could crash into every other: health-care reform, autopilot budget cuts,
    a government shutdown, even a default on the national debt.

    If I were
    betting, I’d wager that we will somehow avoid a total meltdown. House Speaker
    John Boehner seems desperate to get around his party’s Armageddon Caucus.

    But after three
    years of congressional dysfunction brought on by the rise of a radicalized
    brand of conservatism, it’s time to call the core questions:

    Will our
    ability to govern ourselves be held perpetually hostage to an ideology that
    casts government as little more than dead weight in American life? And will a
    small minority in Congress be allowed to grind decision-making to a halt?

    Congress is
    supposed to be the venue in which we Americans work our way past divisions that
    are inevitable in a large and diverse democracy. Yet for some time, Republican
    congressional leaders have given the most right-wing members of the House and
    Senate a veto power that impedes compromise, and thus governing itself.

    On the few
    occasions when the far-right veto was lifted, Congress got things done,
    courtesy of a middle-ground majority that included most Democrats and the more
    moderately conservative Republicans. That’s how Congress passed the modest tax
    increases on the well-off that have helped reduce the deficit, as well as the
    Violence Against Women Act and assistance for the victims of Hurricane Sandy.

    All these
    actions had something in common: They were premised on the belief that
    government can take practical steps to make American life better.

    This idea is
    dismissed by those ready to shut down the government or to use the debt ceiling
    as a way of forcing the repeal or delay of the Affordable Care Act and passing
    more draconian spending reductions. It needs to be made very clear that these
    radical Republicans are operating well outside their party’s own constructive
    traditions.

    Before their
    2010 election victory, Republicans had never been willing to use the threat of
    default to achieve their goals. The GOP tried a government shutdown back in the
    mid-1990s, but it was a political disaster. Experienced Republicans are trying
    to steer their party away from the brink, the very place where politicians such
    as Sen. Ted Cruz (Tex.) and a group of fourscore or
    so House members want it to go.

    Particularly
    instructive is the effort to repeal health-care reform. The very fact that
    everyone now accepts the term “Obamacare” to refer to a measure designed to get
    health insurance to many more Americans is a sign of how stupidly partisan we
    have become. We never described Medicare as “Johnsoncare.” We didn’t label
    Social Security “FDRsecurity.”

    Tying the whole
    thing to Obama disguises the fact that most of the major provisions of the law
    he fought for had their origins among conservatives and Republicans.

    The health-care
    exchanges to facilitate the purchase of private insurance were based on
    a Heritage Foundation proposal, first brought to fruition in Massachusetts by a
    Republican governor named Mitt Romney. Subsidizing private premiums was always
    a Republican alternative to extending Medicare to cover everyone, the
    remedy preferred by many liberals.

    Conservatives
    even once favored the individual mandate to buy insurance, as MSNBC columnist Tim Noah pointed out. “Many
    states now require passengers in automobiles to wear seatbelts for their own
    protection,” the Heritage Foundation’s Stuart Butler said back in 1989.
    “Many others require anybody driving a car to have liability insurance.” Since
    all of us will use health care at some point, Butler argued reasonably, it
    makes sense to have us all in the insurance pool.

    But that was
    then. The right wing’s recent rejection of a significant government role in
    ending the scandal of “a health-care system that does not even come close to
    being comprehensive and fails to reach far too many” — the words were spoken 24
    years ago by the late Sen. John Chafee, a Rhode Island Republican —
    tells us why Congress no longer works.

    The GOP has
    gone from endorsing market-based government solutions to problems the private
    sector can’t solve — i.e, Obamacare — to believing that no solution involving
    expanded government can possibly be good for the country.

    Ask yourself:
    If conservatives still believed in what both left and right once saw as a
    normal approach to government, would they speak so cavalierly about shutting it
    down or risking its credit? This is what’s at stake in the Big Magilla.

    ————
    So in the end, anything Obama proposes “bad” even if conservatives embraced it previously.
    Politics as usual from the morally bankrupt conservative right….

    • speedle

      This piece is so inundated with lies and half truths that it makes it difficult to read. But in a general sense he has both captured the essence of the argument while thinking he was exposing a nonsensical conservative trait by writing about conservatism as….”an ideology that casts government as little more than dead weight in American life….”. That is precisely what government is – a necessary evil and a life hindrance that should be kept under control like a vicious dog. And that, Dave, is why people like you are in a different dimension from people like me, and why eventually this country is going to have to physically divide itself to avoid civil war between the producers and the consumers.

      • Dave

        Speedle,
        I deal in reality and the reality is that Gov is needed to get things done in a society. We elect Gov to get things done and to harness a collective effort to make society better. The “free market” (there is no such thing BTW) is not able or willing do do certain things because their is no money in it or requires such a huge financial investment that they could never recoup their investment in the timely manner that business likes.
        If you hate the Gov, go to Somalia… See how you like it there. They don’t have rules, much gov and you can do pretty much whatever you like… Just keep one eye open when you sleep… Not having effective Gov does have its unintended consequences….
        Speedle, I don’t knoow if you have figured out this yet but we went from a nation of producers to a nation of consumers from the 1950’s to the 1990’s… You really consider yourself superior after your conservative heros like Reagan and Nixon helped transform our society to consumerism? HA!
        Gov can be a help or a hinderence in society… But so can business…

        • speedle24

          Dave, try hard to understand. No one, not even the most dyed in the wool libertarian advocates “NO” government or anything resembling the garbage dump of Somalia.

          Also, you seem to confuse “consumerism” with “entitlement”. Big government is about entitlement, not consumerism. In order for there to be consumerism there must be “production”. Production and consumerism are dependent upon each other.

          And no, I don’t consider myself “superior” to you, just more enlightened. You seem to have some kind of blockage in the logic supply line to the brain. I wish I could tell you how to get it cleared up, but I just don’t know.

          • Dave

            Really,
            BobL and his employee DaveH advocate the only role for Gov is defense…
            Also look up the definition of consumerism… That is what we are now… We moved from a prodcution based economy after WW2 and that move accelerated in the 1970’s and 1980’s…. SS we pay into… Medicare/Medicad we pay into…I believe there should be a welfare system that catches people so they don’t fall through the cracks in society and is a TEMP solution until they get back on their feet again.
            The trouble with conservatives is they are well trained in the propaganda put out by theior corp/conservative masters… Reagan was a hero in their minds even though he set us on the path to ruin with the 2008 collapse via dereguiation of the banks and credit regs and bad trade deals. Both parties are to blame for the mess we are in.
            You are more enlightened in conservative propaganda I will give you that much.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Dave,

            You write: BobL and his employee DaveH advocate the only role for Gov is defense…” I cannot speak for Dave H, but this is a total fabrication of what I “advocate.”

            The remainder of your post is senseless argle-bargle, fallacy and misinformation, except for the part about both parties being responsible for the mess.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • speedle24

            Yes Really. The “primary” role of the federal government is indeed defense because it is charged by the Constitution to provide it. That includes not only defense from external threats but internal threats (police, FBI, etc.). There are other government responsibilities that are necessary to protect the population as well.

            “Entitlements” are a mutation of the role of government that are used as a tool to gain power. Historically this methodology has been a more subtle tactic of Statist/Progressives, but it is now overt as demonstrated by the current Gangster administration. Charity has always been the best option to take care of those who cannot care for themselves, because it is given voluntarily by people who actually give a damn. Government coercion of this process regardless of the desires of those being coerced is collectivism, and eventually leads to massive corruption and revolution. But I am sure that this type of abstract thinking is beyond the pale for you.

            With regard to production and consumption in the context of free market discussion, you don’t look up the Webster definition.of consumerism. It has nothing to do with the subject. What you are talking about is the technological advancements that allow for less work and more consumption. That has no bearing on the entitlement discussion.

          • Vis Fac

            DUMB DAVE Follow the link to find out why the economy collapsed. You were obviously a smear on the bedsheets when Reagen turned the economy around http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2008/02/clintons_drive.html

            The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

            America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

            The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

            A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

            Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

            A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est

            Semper-Fi

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            As usual Dave tells his lies.
            First of all, I’m not Bob’s employee.
            Secondly, I’ve never said that Government’s only role is defense. The telling thing is that I’ve corrected Dave on this many times and he still persists in spreading the lie.
            What I have said is that Government’s only “legitimate role is to protect people from the Force of others”. That Force can come from outside our Country or inside our Country. And I use Government in the broad sense, not just Federal Government.
            Note particularly that I said “legitimate” not “legal”. I realize that our Governments have assumed powers far beyond what I think is their only legitimate role.
            Read what our founders who belonged to the anti-federalists thought of the Central (Federal) Government:
            http://mises.org/daily/2335

        • Quester55

          The problem with YOUR REALITY Dave is, It Has More Holes in it than a Fisherman’s Net.

          if you want True Reality, grab a Clipboard, Go out to the Sidewalks, Away from your friends(IF ANY) And Ask a Strangers Opinion on your Anti-Christian Views!

          • Dave

            Anti-Christian???
            I have no problem with any man-made fairytale religion… Christian, Muslim, Judaism, Hinduism… Practice at your home, church, temple etc… Just keep it out of Gov and we have no issue.
            The rest of your diatribe is garbage.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Can we expect the same from your Religion of Liberalism?

          • Bill

            DaveH
            As well as the religion of global warming

        • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Dave,

          You write: “The “free market” (there is no such thing BTW) is not able or willing do do certain things because their is no money in it or requires such a huge financial investment that they could never recoup their investment in the timely manner that business likes.” This statement demonstrates what I have said before: That you suffer from cognitive dissonance. You admit there is no free market then blame the free market for the nation’s troubles.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

          • Patriot_Dave

            Bob I believe the point trying to made here is that we are supposed to have a ‘free market society’ but in reality we do not…. Corporatism has taken over the markets and is in the process of squashing every attempt by the PEOPLE to take them back to where they are the FREE Markets promised to US…Unfortunately, it has been caused many of the same Conservative heros that many of US have that are/were the instigators of this slide into oblivion… We try to fix every little thing with a new batch of laws and all we get is a bigger mess…Yes BOTH sides are at fault…and… NO… not ONE single Party will ever be able to FIX it!!!… The real question is… When IS everyone going to wake up to the FACTS and work TOGETHER do something worthwhile to FIX it???

        • Vis Fac

          We need the government for only one thing Protect the nation. Government is self serving and all consuming YOU need government to provide for YOUR LAZY S$$

          The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

          America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

          The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

          A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

          Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

          A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est

          Semper-Fi

        • Robert Messmer

          I don’t recall my self as having ever said “no government”, its just I don’t want the government dictating every thing I do. I wear seatbelts-seatbelts are a really good idea. But I wear seatbelts because I was in school before the government dumbed it down. So I saw demonstrations about speed, mass, inertial. Ok so yes I know without the restraint, if the vehicle I am in hits something at a great enough rate of speed, I will wind up outside of the vehicle. This is probably going to be very bad for me. Therefore I wear a seatbelt. I do not need the government to compel me to “Click It or Ticket”. Having depended on the government to defend against any and all invasions—yet we have 11 million criminals that have invaded this country. The government’s response? Oh lets give them amnesty. So our elected government failed to get the job done and certainly didn’t make society better.

      • Vis Fac

        This is liberal dogma LIES, MORE LIES and DAMNED LIES!

        Facts to a liberal are those that are pulled out of thin air to swathe their ineptness on all things rational. Liberal one
        dimensional idiot-ology dictates they make things up as they go so they can blame others for their failures. Nothing is ever the DUMBOCRITES fault right?
        So whenever they have trouble defending and/or nothing to substantiate their positions they simply fall back on fabrication of reality, magic or the Federal Board for Blaming Bush.. Then all their liberal inadequacies are soon to be forgotten

        The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

        America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

        The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

        A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

        Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

        A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est

        Semper-Fi

      • Bill

        Good analogy, Speedle

    • Bill

      Dave ,
      This article that you just printed supports my previous post that you are brainwashed by some political faction and you are just a pawn in their game

    • Vis Fac

      Compromise to a liberal is “it’s my way or the highway” Keep your rhetoric where it belongs in the trash.

      The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

      America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

      The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

      A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

      Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

      A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est

      Semper-Fi

    • Robert Messmer

      IF Obamacare is so damn good why has Congress, not just the GOP but both parties demanded out of it? IF Obamacare is so damn good why had Obama himself postponed enforcement of it? If Obamacare is so damn good why does it not provide for a single new doctor but does provide for 1600 IRS Agents? And even according to MSM the national debt continues to climb, has not been reduced. Just because states buckle under to federal pressure in order to continue receiving money from DC that came from their residents in the first place is no argument in favor of anything except more excessive government interference. The VAWA is from 1994, this was just an extension. And guess what the modest tax increase went to pay for protecting illegals under the VAWA.

  • mari

    The Bible does say that in the end times that men’s hearts will fail them with fear. Everywhere I look in this changed country, I see the clutches of our beloved leader tightening around our throats. Education, healthcare, transportation, gun control, data gathering, anti Christian and conservative forces, civil unrest, police and military anti-citizen reconditioning, and the calling if evil things good and good things evil, are just a few of the areas that scare me. Once everyone is required to use food stamps to eat (out of necessity or forced), we will have no recourse but to keep our mouths shut, lower our heads (and hearts), and march to the government’s beat (down).
    America, America, God shed His grace on thee,
    And crown they good, with brotherhood,
    from sea to shining sea…

    • Dave

      Isn’t interesting that the bible was written by these same “men” whose “hearts will fail them?”
      You believe too much of the BS propaganda that gets thrown around here. What has happened is that corporatists have taken over since Reagan and they have exploded our debt and reduced the poor and middle class’s economic power through big mney in the political process that have undermind this country… The funny thing is… if you vote GOP, you vote against this country’s and your own economic interest. The music stopped in 2007-2008 before Obama was even in office
      You want real change? Push to get the large sums of money out of the political process. Obama is merely a pacifier for the majority that are middle class and poor that are starting to wake up to the fleecing of this country that is being perpetrated by the wealthy

      • Gagal24

        Would you please tell me of one, JUST ONE, poor person who has ever hired anyone to work and paid them a decent wage too do it? Or how about even min. wage?

        • Dave

          Its a nonsense question… but its apparent that you want to see poor people make less to keep in on par with those people in Africa, mexico, China that get paid pennies on the dollar.
          How does that benefit the majority in this country Gagal?

          • Gagal24

            I am on of those “poor people” I was laid off ater 23 years because my boss could hire 2 min. wage people for what he was paying me…and NO I havent been able to find another job because I wont work min. wage. Thank God my husband and I are not fools with our money and we are at a point where, by pinching pennies, I don’t have to work! And if you check your facts there are 12 states where the people living of the government dollar (welfare) are making up to $22 an hour sitting at home. Why give that up to work??? And it was not a nonsense question…Rich people are the ones who do the hiring but it sounds like you want to take that away from them..and everyone in their employment…if the rich goes down..who pays the salary of those they lay off?? I will tell you who…the American tax payers!!!!

          • Dave

            So continue fleecing the country? The wealthy are making double digit increases each year. Do you have that record in your life? No… They do this by paying the politicials to tax tax law, trade regs that benefit their narrow interests and their wallets…
            Time to wise up…. Corporations have NO loyalty to you or the United States of America and your position is to let the do as they please… and we wonder why the country is in such a bad way…
            Corp apologists like you who drank the kool-aid

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The first thing people need to know is that there are two classes of entrepreneurs — The Political Entrepreneurs (Crony Capitalists), and the Market Entrepreneurs who survive by pleasing their customers:
            http://mises.org/daily/2317
            People like Dave, either intentionally or unintentionally, lump them all together and appeal to peoples’ jealousy. The ultimate outcome of listening to fools like Shill Dave is to destroy Capitalism and throw us into the proven failure of Socialism.
            We need to get back to Free Markets with Government’s only role being that of litigating against Fraudulent activity by errant companies. Government should not be in the business of protecting ignorant people from themselves. With Free Markets the companies are essentially slaves to their consumers, because if they don’t please their customers, they lose them and eventually go out of business.
            As long as self-interested Leaders are allowed to meddle in the Marketplace, they will find ways to benefit their Crony Capitalists who return the favor with campaign donations or other less obvious bribes.
            Those people, who are truly interested in turning this country back into the Free and Prosperous country that it once was, should read this:
            http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

          • Bill

            Another great comment, DaveH

          • Bill

            Gaga,
            It is becoming obvious the Dave believes in communism

          • Dave

            Its obvious you do not know the definition of the word Bill… But many conservatives don’t either so you are in good company.

          • Dave

            Its obvious you do not know the definition of the word Bill… But many conservatives don’t either so you are in good company.

          • Christopher Tutt

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk5OJBry2ss&feature=player_embedded#t=380

            Here is where the problem is… Dave doesn’t believe in communism he believes in equality and there is such a separation between “wealthy” and poor most don’t really understand how bad it is.

          • Bill

            Christopher,
            What do you propose to close the gap besides stealing from and giving to another? How about promoting the private sector so jobs are plentiful and everybody benefits

          • Dave

            Bill,
            I know this may be too much for you to handle, but getting big money out of the political process would be a start, reforming our trade and tax policies would be another…
            I want plenty of private sector jobs to be held by Amwericans via equality of opportunity, not how much money you can pay a politican to pass a law that benefits on a small group of people’s narrow interest.

          • DarlK

            Dave, now you are making some real sense. Keep it up. There is hope for you yet!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave, the Liberals have been whining about that for many decades now. It isn’t going to happen. The Leaders want their Crony Capitalists and vice versa. So your solution is a non-starter.
            The best way to accomplish ending Crony Capitalism is to take away the Leaders’ tools which are used to aid the Crony Capitalists. Hold your Congressmen’s feet to the fire to pass laws only and get rid of bureaucratic agencies and their regulations. Regulations are passed by unelected officials. That should end. And end the other ways that Leaders can help their Crony Capitalists like subsidies, price controls, tariffs, quotas, or any other of their many mechanisms. In other words, we need to get Government out of the Marketplace and let Competition for consumers reign.
            There is only one Political Party with the platform to achieve those goals — The Libertarian Party.
            For Individual Freedom, Personal Responsibility, Free Markets, Limited Government, and the PEACE that comes with not trying to cram everybody into the same shoes:
            http://www.lp.org/

          • Bill

            Good comment, DaveH

          • Christopher Tutt

            When you look to the TOP they should be toppled quickly. They are the ones that control the media, The fed. Reserve, The world bank. In other words they control this country and most others. Look to the whistleblower about the world bank: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7E9SUwlooE

            You want fix this country first we have to get an HONEST media and next we need to get OUR OWN BANK not a Rothschild owned bank that has its own Police force called the IRS. Every dollar in your pocket is borrowed from these Elites that own our country through debt.

          • Bill

            So, you propose stealing from the rich and giving to the poor?
            So when there are no more jobs and the economy is in shambles, once you have toppled them, then what will you do?

          • Christopher Tutt

            Do what Hungary or Iceland just did.. Topple their banking empire that ran their country. Iceland sent the bankers to jail where they belong and now their recovery has been FAST and they are profiting. Here is an article on Hungary:

            http://politicalvelcraft.org/2013/08/28/hungary-orders-rothschilds-imf-to-vacate-the-country-now-issuing-debt-free-money/

            Or we can keep paying for EVERY dollar that we use. Instead of printing our own currency that is actually produced WITHOUT DEBT.

          • Bill

            Christopher,
            I agree with you on many of your thoughts. Our government has become such a behemoth that it has come down to them versus us.
            If they would just get out of the marketplace, things would right themselves.
            I like what Iceland did by putting the bankers in jail and going BK on their debt.
            Our government has to have their fingers in everything and therefore create un natural markets.
            The housing bubble was brought on by politicians trying to make housing available to people that could not afford it. They did this by telling banks that they had to reduce their qualification criteria and thus making anyone who could breathe qualify for a loan.
            They compounded the problem by allowing wall street to package these loans and sell them as quality rated.
            And when the market crashed (of which it was destined to do), the government stepped in and prolonged the pain.
            So without government intervention (either political party), the bubble market would have never occurred, and the market have been free to go into its normal cycles and corrections would not be that long and not drag the total economy
            Free market economics is what works

          • Vis Fac

            Funny you should mention Clinton’s legacy to the housing market.

            http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2008/02/clintons_drive.html

            The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

            America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

            The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

            A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

            Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

            A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est

            Semper-Fi

          • Bill

            Force,
            I agree with you 100%.
            Abraham Lincoln also said “Things may come to those that wait, but only the things left from those that hustle”.

          • Vis Fac

            I’ve done my share of hustling (not the scamming kind) but actually elbow grease and hard work. I once met with H Ross Perot he imparted one of the most important gems of wisdom actually three He said you must open your eyes and see an opportunity you then must recognize that it is an opportunity and finally you must act on that opportunity.

            Like him or not Donald Trump uses the Perot philosophy and the results are obvious. People have a tendency to abash success because they don’t have the ability or tenacity to succeed. I must admit that I am not quite the success that Mr. Trump is, but my little nest egg isn’t shabby either.

            The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

            America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

            The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

            A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

            Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

            A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est

            Semper-Fi

          • Bill

            Force,
            Very good words of wisdom. I liked Ross Perot, he just wasn’t cut out for the dirtiness’ of politics.
            During the Iranian revolution when several of his employees were held hostage, he hired his own mercenary army and went and rescued his employees. That is my kind of guy

          • Robert Messmer

            I liked him. He said he would grow the GNP at least 3% per year or we didn’t have to pay him. Told us not to worry about him he had 3 Billion dollars at home. So at lease we knew he wouldn’t be subject to bribes. Plus during the debates, it came about that he was telling one of the other candidates to tell him whatever “I am all ears”. If you recall, his ears were on the large and prominent side–in fact all the political cartoonists of the day always portrayed him with giant ears. I watched as it dawned on him exactly what he had said and a big grin crossed his face. As he enjoyed the joke on himself so did everyone else.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I wish you guys would quit quoting the Dictator Lincoln. And no, I’m not trying to censor you, just wishin’ and hopin’.

          • Bill

            Dave,
            I don’t care who said the saying I just quoted, I think it has good value that I use in my everyday life.
            When other people are sitting on their butt, waiting for some else to do something for them, I am out carving my own path and not waiting for anyone to do anything for me.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The prime mover behind the Housing Bust is the usual suspect — The Federal Reserve. Without their excessive money creation the malinvestment of the Housing Boom would never have occurred.

          • Bill

            Hi Dave,
            It was when they finally put some teeth into the community redevelopment act. They told banks that if they wanted to do anything, even open a new ATM, they had to comply with the community redevelopment act. Which meant they had to lower their standards to qualify for a loan

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            They couldn’t do that, Bill, if they didn’t have the “money” supplied to them by the Federal Reserve.
            That’s why I said “prime mover”. The CRA and other Government meddling were indeed factors in the boom and bust but they were not the prime factors.
            Read this, Bill:
            http://mises.org/daily/2936

          • Jack

            Bill:

            The politicians didn’t tell or force lenders to lend money to people to buy houses when the people didn’t have the means to pay for the debt.

            That claim is a lie created by the banksters and fraudsters to cover their asses and deflect blame from themselves. The lie was spread by so called “conservative” personalities who are more than willing to say and do anything their corporate paymasters tell them to say or do.

            The banksters and fraudsters thought up the ideas as a means to steal billions of dollars.

            We should all be screaming at Obama and Holder for not prosecuting those banksters and fraudsters and putting as many of them as possible in prision.

          • Bill

            Jack,
            So are you saying that the Community Redevelopment Act did not exist? And that banks did not lower their lending requirements when Frank and Dodd threatened then with enforcement of the CRA.
            Are you living in the twilight zone?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The solution is to abolish the Federal Reserve Act, abolish the Legal Tender Laws, and get us back to Gold as money.
            Given that Fractional Reserve Banks are fraudulent by nature, there should be no special Government protections for them.
            People who want to understand the concept of money better can start here:
            http://mises.org/daily/2882

          • Gagal24

            I understand…its called those who get up off their a$$ and work and those that don’t. I have no problem helping those that NEED it but to stand in line at the grocery store and have to count pennies and coupons and hear a lady with two buggies full of food paying with food stamps say that her pregnant 15 yr old daughter is her cash cow now…yes that pisses me off!!!!

          • Robert Messmer

            Being poor I do understand but I also understand that my “poorness” had/has nothing to do with Bill Gates, Walton, Warren Buffet’s “richness”. It is not their fault that I am not rich. During the last presidential campaign, the Democrats ran attack ads against Romney about his “only” paying 15% of his income in taxes for the year 2010. The ads even went so far to say “probably less than you paid.” What the ads failed to say was that he paid on the order of 2 MILLION 400 THOUSAND dollars by paying “only” 15%. (BTW that’s more than Obama made that year.) You can google it (I did) the Median Annual Wage in 2010 was $26.364.00. So how many citizens making the median wage that year would it take to pay in as much as Mitt? It would take just over 91 of them just to have their TOTAL income to equal what he paid in tax–and that tax is just federal income tax, not his total tax bill.

          • Bill

            Robert,
            The reason he was paying 15% was because he was paying on capital gains and not earned income.
            BTW, the capital gains rates have recently been raised

          • Jack

            Robert Messmer & Bill:

            So what if Romney paid over $2 million in federal income taxes – he made over $20 million. If you had made around a $100 thousand you would have paid around $35 thousand in federal taxes – a lot higher percentage of your income than Romney paid. 35% for those of you who are math impaired.

            Exactly, how is it either right or fair for a select few rich people that happened to be involved with hedge funds are allowed to only pay federal income taxes at the rate of 15% on their incomes when the rest of us have to pay up to 39% on our incomes?

            The tax break that allows Romney and other hedge fund people to only pay a federal tax rate of 15% is called “carried interest”

            Why did Romney insist on releasing only parts of two years of his income tax returns? Could it have been that if he revealed his complete returns for the two years or if he had released his returns for 2008 and 2009 it would have shown that he was one of the thousands of wealthy people who got caught illegally hiding money overseas in order to avoid paying their income taxes?

          • Vis Fac

            But only until the funds run out. I catch a lot of flack for saying people are where they are because they want to be. My reasoning is because there are opportunities available to those who are willing to sacrifice enough to effect a change.

            Opportunity is missed by most people because it is
            dressed in overalls and looks like work.Thomas Edison

            The fact that you refuse to work for minimal wage speaks volumes.You never know what opportunities may become available.
            Several times I failed at business. In order to survive I did manual labor and work others wouldn’t do I gained knowledge and experience marketable commodities. I was also able to survive until I became successful.
            Those who do succeed those who don’t fail.

            The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

            America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

            The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

            A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

            Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

            A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est

            Semper-Fi

          • Gagal24

            OOOH RAH
            Please understand the reason I cant work for min. wage is not because I wont…the fact is it would cost me more to put my two grandkids (temp custody) into daycare than what I could make working a week Part time Min wage. I would love to be able to work!!!!! But at $150. a week for each child I would be owing money insted of making it.

          • Vis Fac

            Yes I understand and that is the problem with the system. People making more sitting their butts (welfare and food stamps) paid for by taxpayer dollars to bolster support for the DUMBOCRITIC party.

            I Figure if you pay these people to sit why not make them EARN their way by cleaning up streets parks public places etc. say at just above minimum wage. Use the extra money to pay for road bridge and infrastructure repairs and maintenance instead of free phones or other junk government provides. Of course this is a pipe dream because who would think a liberal would be that conscientious and think of the public good? No they’re too busy blowing smoke up everyone’s A$$ telling story’s to garner support.

            I speak from experience when I say Reagan had the right idea to get our economy moving. First ease up on taxes and regulation get industry working then play things by ear. Those who don’t agree are either too lazy to work or hopelessly brainwashed and dependent on liberal freebies.

            The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

            America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

            The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

            A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

            Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

            A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est

            Semper-Fi

          • Vis Fac

            There are other things you can do to make ends meet without having to take a minimum wage position. Do you have skills to barter with? Recycling can be an avenue as well no paperwork no IRS involvement. Are you good at something someone might need do you have things to trade? The possibilities are endless

            When I first started my engineering firm I bartered I traded skills and time for used equipment and supplies I bartered until I closed shop. What I couldn’t barter were wages paid to the employees.

            Now that I am retired I still barter in doing so I have formed a close network of friendly contacts. If I were you I’d start getting used to the idea because when the economy tanks bartering will be used as standard trade practice.

            The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

            America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

            The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

            A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

            Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

            A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est

            Semper-Fi

          • Robert Messmer

            Perhap you could furnish services to others in your situation. Just be careful to research state/local requirements between “baby-sitting” and “running a day care”.

          • Bill

            Force,
            I like your Thomas Edison quote. How true it is

          • Jack

            Force Recon:

            You screwed up your story again.

            Previously you have said that you served three consecutive tours in a Marine recon unit in Vietnam without ever even getting wounded; getting out of the Marines in the mid to late 1970’s; going to college and getting 3 to 4 degrees; owning a 100 employee engineering firm by 1981 that did business on every continent but one; a company that you ran for 30 plus years; but actually started selling and closing down in the 1990’s; and losing a son to a killer who had gotten off on a technicality.

            Now you are saying that you failed at business several times and you did manual labor and work others wouldn’t do until you became successful.

            When you lie its hard to remember what you have said. Its obvious you aren’t smart enough to be able to keep your story straight.. I have a suggestion, come clean and stop lying about yourself.

          • Bill

            Dave,
            What a stupid remark

          • Dave

            More expert analysis and debating skills from you Bill.
            Typical crony capitalist.

          • Bill

            More emotional assumptions based on knee jerk reactions to someone that disagrees with you. It will lead you astray every time

          • dave

            Case in point when it comes to “knee-jerk reations”

            “Dave,
            What a stupid remark”

          • DarlK

            At least he is a capitalist, and NOT a socialist!

          • DarlK

            At least he is a capitalist, and NOT a socialist!

          • Vis Fac

            DUMB DAVE I’d much rather be a capitalist then the parasitic leech you turned out to be!

            The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

            America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

            The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

            A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

            Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

            A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est

            Semper-Fi

          • Vis Fac

            It’s a nonsense question toy YOU DUMB DAVE. You haven’t the capacity to pour urine out of a boot let alone understand anything of logic. Gagal was saying people with money create jobs for people like you to live and then badmouth those who gave you employment.

            If you continually bite the hand that feeds you and I’ve imparted this before by buying FOREIGN goods instead of domestic, at some point you will go hungry Are you hungry yet DUMB A$$ DAVE ?

            The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

            America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

            The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

            A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

            Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

            A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est

            Semper-Fi

          • DarlK

            Dave, you’re the only one spewing nonsense around here. If you like socialism so much, your buddy Fidel would welcome you with open arms! Keep posting, your jokes make for funny reading.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            What is true, Dave, is that Socialism always leads to poverty. So given the fact that you support Socialism (Big Government), it is you who apparently wants to keep people poor. You are either extremely ignorant (which I doubt) or you are in bed with the Leaders and their Crony Capitalists in their efforts to mislead the poor people.
            The real “poor” people who want to understand how they’re being used by people like Shill Dave and his handlers, should read Chapter 7 of this book (better yet, read the whole book):
            http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

        • Patsea

          myself plus many underpaid/ working single parents

      • Bill

        Dave,
        You are believing your own BS that you are making up. The public debt has expanded due to the expansion of the public sector and the increase in social programs. Granted, we are becoming a fascist state with corporations working hand and hand with government officials to promote the self interests of the government and corporations,
        But, the current fascist state of affairs has nothing to do with any political party, it is just how business is done.
        It is like professional wrestling, they go in the ring and beat each other up. Then they go in the back rooms as buddies and conduct business as usual.
        To believe in the myth that the government is going to benefit your life is a fools game. Or you have just been brainwashed by some political faction and you are just a pawn in their game

      • Vis Fac

        DUMB DAVE You still suffer from CHRONIC induced hypoxia from cranial rectitus.

        I know why you are anti capitalism. YOU ARE LAZY and won’t do what is necessary for you to survive you like all other liberals want others to provide for you. You feel we owe you an existence.

        You say–The music stopped in 2007-2008 before Obama was even in office. I say it certainly did because of CLINTON’s legacy forcing the housing industry to provide mortgage loans to those who could not qualify. This created “creative financing allowing for 100% PLUS loans artificially raised real estate values and fluctuating interest rates. Coincidentally in (2007-2008) these low rates rose and people could not pay mortgages banks lost money and ODUMBO Bailed them out. WE ARE NOW EXPERIENCING THE RESULT OF CLINTON’S LEGACY. Not only has ODUMBO failed to resolve the issue he has added fuel to the fire costing countless jobs and indenturing our grandchildren and their children.
        You’re just another fool in the great pool of fools.

        The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

        America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

        The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

        A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic

        Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

        A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est

        Semper-Fi

        • Bill

          Good comments, Force,
          You pinpointed the cause of the housing bubble. If markets were left alone they would correct themselves. We never would have had the bubble if it wasn’t for governmental intervention.
          Government is not the answer, it is the problem

    • Patsea

      Resist/obey God only

  • usaok59

    Now they are talking about Nurse Practitioners and Physcians’ Assistants being allowed to practice without a medical doctor’s supervision. And patients will have no choice whom they see when they are sick. Doctors are leaving the profession because of ACA and red tape, and the bureaucracy. Looks like this fiasco is not going so well.

    • Vis Fac

      My daughter (a physician) is planning her exit strategy now. She feels sad because of the restrictions. If she were to ignore these (death panel) restrictions she would face a $100K fine for the first offense $200K fine for the second and face Jail for the third. This is what happens when government gets involved in our PERSONAL lives.

      You dumb A$$ed Liberals really did a number on this ine.

      The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

      America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

      The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

      A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic

      Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

      A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est

      Semper-Fi

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        You can’t blame just the Liberal Progressives for this, Force. Without the framework of Big Government built by Progressives of all kinds (Liberal, Socialist, Neocon, etc.), which includes the majority of both Democrat Leaders and Republican Leaders, Obama would not have been able to accomplish his feat.
        http://mises.org/books/leftright.pdf

  • Bill

    Good article, Bob
    The new health care system is not designed to benefit anyone and it will be up to us to manage our own health. The old health care system was great if you broke a bone or needed an operation but after that, it is just drugs for symptoms with no one trying to find the cause unless it involved the drugs they are pushing
    The key is what you preach, and that is prevention. In China, the acupuncturist came to your house when you were well and treated you. If you became sick, they felt they did not do their job right and would come back and fix you for free
    We have wonderful therapies that are un-patentable so, therefore, they are not promoted. It also takes work for you to investigate what to do. I have always appreciated your advice and I practice many things that you teach
    I want to be like Dr Paul Bragg, who passed away at 96, while he was surfing

    • Patsea

      Stay away from pharmaceutical pushing Medical PRACTITIONERS

      • Bill

        Hi Patsea,
        They have their place. Most doctors have good intentions but they are only taught what the drug companies want to them to know. It is up to us to decide if what they are offering will benefit us

  • Quester55

    Good article, Bob, And your Correct, WE REPUBLICANS & SOME LOYAL AMERICAN Democrats, Tried their best to inform the Citizens that being OBAMA the GOLDEN Bull, OBAMA’S Words & Health Care Bill was Just a SCAM to Get their MONEY, But Those that Voted For & Supported His Plans, Became Sheep, Heeding The WOLF’S Invitation to Dinner !!
    The Next time (If You ever get one) someone Shouts, ” Look OUT, there’s a Snake on the Path, Look around First, Before you take the next step!

  • Quester55

    Good article, Bob, And your Correct, WE REPUBLICANS & SOME LOYAL AMERICAN Democrats, Tried their best to inform the Citizens that being OBAMA the GOLDEN Bull, OBAMA’S Words & Health Care Bill was Just a SCAM to Get their MONEY, But Those that Voted For & Supported His Plans, Became Sheep, Heeding The WOLF’S Invitation to Dinner !!
    The Next time (If You ever get one) someone Shouts, ” Look OUT, there’s a Snake on the Path, Look around First, Before you take the next step!

  • Liz

    Was there ever any doubt that this was a bait and switch? His goal from the first day of his first term was to bankrupt and control the American people. He has only contempt for Our Country and this is another way to accomplish his goals, using the IRS is brilliant because they pretty much know everyone’s income. The only ones they don’t seem to bother are politicians (that is–Liberal Progressive politicians)

    • Vis Fac

      dave with a small dee I would suggest you embellish your monker a bit so we don’t confuse you with DUMB DAVE who provides inane postings You might not get the responses you expect

      The quandary the world faces is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people full of doubts” Bertrand Russell

      America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our liberties, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.– Abraham Lincoln

      The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing–Edmund Burke

      A republic is defined as a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president… The United States is no longer a republic!

      Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch with the well armed lamb contesting the vote. Liberty comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.”

      A democratic government that respects no limits on its power is a ticking time bomb, waiting to destroy the rights it was created to protect.

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est

      Semper-Fi

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Force,
        That was the persistent system ID glitch. Liz was the poster.

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    Very good comment, Ruth Thomas from Facebook.

  • Timothy Thompson

    Obamacare what a joke it should be named pay money to Obama. Another ponzi scheme that depends on one generation paying for another generation when everyone knows that people are not having as many kids and the problem will be when you grow old there isn’t anyone in back paying for your care. This again is another criminal program made to fleece the American people out of their hard earned money. Insurance, hell there isn’t going to be any doctors that accept insurance especially not medicare in the future, you’ll need hard greenbacks for a doctor to see you in the not to near distant future.