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The NFL Needs Its Head Examined Before It Advocates Gun Control

December 19, 2012 by  

The NFL Needs Its Head Examined Before It Advocates Gun Control
UPI FILE
Football took its toll on former professional football player George Visger’s brain.

December has been a tough month in the National Football League and not just because of the hard-fought games that were played by teams racing to the playoff finish line. The NFL was rocked by a gun crime, and now some around the league are advocating tougher gun laws.

According to Kansas City police, on Dec. 1, Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher fatally shot Kasandra Perkins, his girlfriend and the mother of his 3-month old daughter, after waiting outside the house that he and Perkins shared. He then drove to Arrowhead Stadium, where he encountered Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli.

“I’m sorry, Scott,” he said. “I’ve done a bad thing to my girlfriend already. I want to talk with (linebackers coach Gary) Gibbs and (head coach) Romeo (Crennel).”

Belcher thanked them for all they had done for him. He then fatally shot himself in the head.

Belcher was a fourth-year player from West Babylon, N.Y., who played college ball at the University of Maine. In March, he signed a $1.9 million contract with the Chiefs worth.

The day after the Belcher murder-suicide was NFL Sunday. During halftime of the “Sunday Night Football” game, renowned sports commentator Bob Costas gave an on-air statement: “If Jovan Belcher didn’t possess a gun, he and Kasandra Perkins would both be alive today.”

Commentators at FOX News agreed that the halftime preaching 24 hours after the murder-suicide was the wrong time and place to speak out against guns.

An opinion piece on FOX News took Costas to task:

Even if no weapon existed, the strength differential is so large that Belcher could have easily killed Perkins in any number of ways. The same is true, sadly, about suicide. There are so many ways that Belcher could have killed himself, including crashing his car at a high rate of speed into a wall or even another car as he drove to Arrowhead Stadium.

That set off liberals who want to use this tragedy as a good reason to weaken the 2nd Amendment.

Two days after the murder, Comedy Central’s Jon Stewart opened “The Daily Show” with the controversy surrounding the Belcher murder-suicide by attacking supporters of the 2nd Amendment who, Stewart insisted, are the real ones who always discuss gun control at inappropriate times. (Keep in mind it was Costas’ anti-gun comments that got the whole thing going.) Stewart even mocked FOX News host Laura Ingraham.
[hulu id=pvsmprov7-o-mwh2qkqnbw width=512 end_time=302]

Battered Brains

Remember the ad with the egg in the frying pan? “This is your brain. This is drugs. This is your brain on drugs.”

They could do another. “This is your brain. This is football. This is your brain on football.”

With regard to collision sports, I have numerous years of experience as a player and a coach. I was a mediocre football player in high school. In my early 30s, I took up boxing and was abysmal. Today, I have aches and pains and, sometimes, I still get jaw pain and headaches which I believe come from the few concussions I received.

Fortunately, I wasn’t good enough to hang around long enough to have serious head trauma issues. But I got to witness plenty of people who had boxed or played football long after they should have retired.

My two sons also got off lucky. My eldest was a runner-up in the U.S. Junior Nationals in boxing and later had a five-year college scholarship in football. While he is a fierce defender of those sports, he admits he got lucky because he was only “dinged” here and there during his playing days. (Being dinged means taking a mild hit to the head — mild being blurred vision, nausea, headaches.)

As a teenager, my younger son trained at a professional wrestling gym, B.J.’s, in Calgary, Canada. That gym was a starting point for many famous professional wrestlers, including Bret “Hit Man” Hart and his brothers — all of whom had illustrious and lucrative careers in WWE.

When it comes to professional wrestling, don’t let the acting and showmanship fool you; wrestlers take terrible punishment, equal to what boxers or football players endure.

These sports gave my sons confidence and lifelong friendships. But if I had known what I know now about collision sports, I wouldn’t have let my sons step on a football field, climb through boxing ring ropes or walk onto a wrestling mat. I have seen too many of these athletes kill themselves and others — often without using a gun. And the notion that these athletes’ brains have not been traumatized and that they are killing simply because they have easy access to guns is ludicrous.

Such is the case with Chris Benoit, a former WWE champion who in 2007 at the age of 40 committed one of the most heinous crimes ever. He did it without using a gun.

Over the course of three days at their large home, Benoit first strangled his wife, Nancy, after binding her. He then strangled to death his 7-year-old son, Daniel, before killing himself beneath a weight lifting machine.

The Fifth Estate, a TV news program in Canada, did an investigation into the Benoit crime and the link between brain damage and violence. The program reported:

The hunt for clues linking damage Benoit had done to his brain in the ring, and his last, ghastly acts, began with a phone call from the former wrestler and Harvard graduate, Chris Nowinski, to Mike Benoit for the brain of his dead son. Nowinski had a theory about the cumulative effects of years of concussions on the brains of athletes like Chris Benoit.

Nowinski had himself taken enough hits in the ring and on the football field to appreciate the long-term damage of concussions.

The Benoit murder-suicide struck Nowinski as being uncannily similar to the former football players who committed suicide after displaying increasingly erratic behaviour.

  • Former Pittsburgh Steeler Terry Long died at the age of 45 in June, 2005 after drinking antifreeze.
  • Ex-Pittsburgh lineman Justin Strzelczyk drove his car into oncoming traffic on September 30, 2004, crashing into a tanker truck, losing his life in the explosion. He was 36 years old.
  • Former Philadelphia Eagle and father of three, Andre Waters, died of self-inflicted wounds when he took a shotgun to his head in November, 2006. He was 44.

Analysis of their brain tissue revealed the presence of a protein usually seen in the brains of elderly people with dementia, but almost never in normal middle-aged men.

Doctor Julian Bailes at the Center for the Study of Retired Athletes, at the University of North Carolina, studied the after-effects of concussions among 3,000 former NFL players in their retirement years.

“What really surprised us was the amount of mental and cognitive problems that they were having, and also depression,” says Dr. Bailes.

An updated list should include Junior Seau, an NFL linebacker named to 12 Pro Bowls. It has been suggested that his decision to die from a gunshot wound to the chest rather than the head was so scientists could study his brain. That would be consistent with the 2011 suicide of former NFL player Dave Duerson, who also shot himself in the chest and left a suicide note requesting that his brain be studied for trauma.

It seems simple. Guns don’t kill. People whose brains are damaged playing extremely violent sports over many years sometimes kill. Boxing, professional wrestling and especially the NFL should make it their focus to protect their athletes rather than spout off about guns.

Yours in good times and bad,

–John Myers
Editor, Myers’ Energy & Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • Kinetic1

    John,
    If you’re going to go after Costas (as FOX did) you might at least get it straight. According to you and many others, Bob Costas gave an on-air statement: “If Jovan Belcher didn’t possess a gun, he and Kasandra Perkins would both be alive today.” In truth, that “opinion” was quoted from a op-ed by FOX’s own Jason Whitlock. What you and so many others left out was this:
    “But here, wrote Jason Whitlock, is what I believe.”
    “Wrote Jason Whitlock.” Do those words mean nothing to you? Is it appropriate to assign a quote to someone who clearly states that they are quoting another? If I start assigning the words of others to you and simply ignore the actual source saying “well, you wrote those words even if you were quoting Ron Paul”, will that be OK?

    Also left out in these attacks was the message of perspective. With only 90 seconds to make his point, Costas did not say much, but it was there. Both Mr. Costas and Mr. Whitlock were questioning the lack of perspective in sports. Here a man kills his girlfriend in front of her mother and child, then kills himself in front of his coach, right there where the team plays and just hours later there is a game going on. Is the game really so important that this tragedy should be ignored?

    Here is what Whitlock had to say:
    “Football is embarrassingly tone deaf. Jovan Belcher, a starting linebacker for the Chiefs, murdered the mother of his child shortly before 8 a.m. Saturday. He hopped in his car, drove to the Kansas City Chiefs practice facility, thanked Romeo Crennel and Scott Pioli — and shot himself in the head in front of his coach and general manager around 8:10 a.m.

    Within two hours, the NFL instructed the Carolina Panthers to travel to Kansas City as scheduled in preparation for Sunday’s noon kickoff. By 3 p.m., the Chiefs announced that Crennel and team captains had decided to play Sunday’s game as planned.

    Short of terrorist attack and weather disaster, nothing slows the NFL.

    A 25-year-old kid gunned down his 22-year-old girlfriend in front of his mother and three-month-old child, and all he could think to do in the immediate aftermath is rush to thank his football coach and football employer. Belcher’s last moments on this earth weren’t spent thanking the mother who raised him or apologizing to the child he would orphan. His final words of gratitude and perhaps remorse were reserved for his football gods.

    It should come as no surprise that Crennel, Chiefs players, Pioli, owner Clark Hunt and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell quickly agreed not to delay Sunday’s football congregation at Arrowhead Stadium.

    Twenty-eight hours after witnessing one of his starting linebackers take his life, Crennel will stand on the sideline as young men play a violent game. Twenty-eight hours after one of their best friends killed the mother of his child and himself, Chiefs players will take the field and play a violent game.

    Football is a game of emotion. Football is a game in which the coaches and players preach about treating each other as family.

    How can they play Sunday? Why should they?

    Belcher and his girlfriend didn’t die in a car accident 30 minutes away from Arrowhead Stadium. This isn’t some tragedy Crennel and Pioli heard about. Belcher crashed his car through the gates of the Chiefs practice facility. He pointed a gun to his head in front of Crennel and Pioli. He killed himself within a quarter of a mile of Arrowhead Stadium, where the players and coaches work.

    I just don’t get it. And I’m not trying to vilify the Chiefs for choosing to play Sunday’s game. It shouldn’t be their decision. Roger Goodell should’ve made this call. Crennel, Pioli and Kansas City players are justifiably still in a state of shock.

    You may argue that we all grieve differently. You may argue that playing the game is the best way to move on and heal. You may argue that canceling or delaying the game would serve no purpose and would be unfair to the fans who traveled to Kansas City to see Cam Newton and the Panthers play the Chiefs.

    I would argue that your rationalizations speak to how numb we are in this society to gun violence and murder. We’ve come to accept our insanity. We’d prefer to avoid seriously reflecting upon the absurdity of the prevailing notion that the second amendment somehow enhances our liberty rather than threatens it.

    How many young people have to die senselessly? How many lives have to be ruined before we realize the right to bear arms doesn’t protect us from a government equipped with stealth bombers, predator drones, tanks and nuclear weapons?

    Our current gun culture simply ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy, and that more convenience-store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead.

    In the coming days, Belcher’s actions will be analyzed through the lens of concussions and head injuries. Who knows? Maybe brain damage triggered his violent overreaction to a fight with his girlfriend. What I believe is, if he didn’t possess/own a gun, he and Kasandra Perkins would both be alive today.

    That is the message I wish Chiefs players, professional athletes and all of us would focus on Sunday and moving forward. Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it.

    But we won’t. We’ll watch Sunday’s game and comfort ourselves with the false belief we’re incapable of the wickedness that exploded inside Jovan Belcher Saturday morning.”

    So there they are, the words of FOX Sports reporter Jason Whitlock. Not mine (though I reprinted them here) and not Costas’ (though he agrees and paraphrased them on TV.) There’s been plenty of condemnation of Costas, but little has been said in the press about Whitlock. Why is that? Why did the trio on FOX and Friends mention “another commentator” but attack the words of Costas? Is it simply because Whitlock is a FOX reporter?

    • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

      “Kinetic1,”

      YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

      THOSE WERE NOT Bob Costas’ WORDS; HE WAS QUOTING SOMEONE ELSE. “Kinetic1,” I DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW WORDS SPOKEN DURING A SPORTING EVENT BECAME A GUN-RIGHTS ISSUE.

      THE Belcher Story IS AN ISSUE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. PEOPLE WHO OWN ILLEGAL GUNS CONSIDER THIS TO BE A STORY OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. THIS TYPE OF SITUATION WILL HAPPEN AGAIN, REGARDLESS, OF WHAT THE GUN-LOBBY DOES.

      • http://PersonalLiberty Doug Dare

        Yes Mr. Costas was quoting another reporter. I respect your opinion concerning this point however, He used the quote on air and he has to take responsibility for it. I know the left refuses to accept personal responsibility as an answer. I know that the left thinks a Federal Government should be the fix all for everything and that the individual can not be trusted so somehow they should MAKE them do the right thing by creating laws. GUNS don’t kill or murder PEOPLE do! You can not legislate morality! Mr. Costas and others seem to think so. Respectfully

      • Kinetic1

        Doug,
        I will again return to the numbers. In America 23.9% of the people say they are Catholics and our church going rate among all denominations is 44%. England has a Catholic population of only 14% and a church attendance rate of only 27%. Clearly, America has a fairly strong Catholic following, and a better than average attendance rate while the UK is wallowing in religious denial. So why is it that American’s suffer 85 times as many gun related homicides than the UK? Does it have something to do with being Catholic? Does attending church make one want to go out and shoot someone? Either conclusion is ridiculous, but they make about as much sense as the suggestion that our more relaxed gun laws and our ranking as number 1 in the world for gun ownership makes us safer.

        Here are a few numbers to consider.
        Australians own 15 guns for every 100 residents. The number of gun related homicides in 2011 was .09 per 100,000 citizens.
        Belgium, 17.2 and .29
        Canada, 30.8 and .76
        Germany, 30.3 and .06
        Ireland, 8.6 and .36
        U.S.A., 88.8 and 3.7

        So how do you get from there to more guns and fewer restrictions make us safer?

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        Cain slew Abel with a club, those who don’t have a gun will find other ways to dispense their evil deeds. Last week a man in China stabbed 20 students and a adult, are we going to have knife control next, what about car control and drug control? I can have a loaded gun laying on my coffee table and until it is picked up and used by one person against another it is just a loaded gun. People kill people and always will, look at those who kill their babies before birth, no different except they use a hateful law and a doctor to do it. Gun control was a ploy of Hitler and seems he has the same followers today. The founders created the second amendment because they had come from countries where only the government was armed and they were slaves to what ever that government said. People have kicked God out of the schools, out of the public eye and even some churches and we wonder where God was as this was happening? Wake up America, we were not founded a secular nation and until those that have been brain washed wake up, man will kill man with somekind of weapon, it’s that simple for those that are simple.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Doug Dare,”

        YES – Mr. Costas USED THE QUOTE “ON-AIR;” BUT, HIS FOCUS WAS ON THE ISSUE OF HOW PEOPLE TREAT EACH OTHER DURING STRESSFUL SITUATIONS – NOT, ON A NEED TO LIMIT GUN-ACCESSIBILITY.

        GUN-RIGHTS ADVOCATES TOOK A “SNID-BIT” OF Mr. Costas’ DIALOGUE AND “RAN WITH IT.” GUN OWNERS HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR. WHEN A REPUBLICAN RETURNS TO THE PRESIDENCY, THE GUN-ISSUE WILL GO AWAY.

      • DaveH

        Kinetic says — “Here are a few numbers to consider.
        Australians own 15 guns for every 100 residents. The number of gun related homicides in 2011 was .09 per 100,000 citizens.
        Belgium, 17.2 and .29
        Canada, 30.8 and .76
        Germany, 30.3 and .06
        Ireland, 8.6 and .36
        U.S.A., 88.8 and 3.7
        So how do you get from there to more guns and fewer restrictions make us safer?”.

        Leave it to a sneaky Liberal Progressive to mix apples and oranges. Where are the figures from Russia where guns have been banned for a very long time, Kinetic? Also notice, Folks, that Kinetic has sneakily restricted his statistics to “gun related homicides” rather than total murders because the real issue is — Will gun control result in fewer murders? And why even use foreign countries with their different cultures, thus invalid comparisons, when we can use State figures instead?

        For instance New Jersey, where the latest school-shooter came from and which is ranked #2 in gun control by the Brady Campaign, has a 4.3 per 100,000 murder rate.
        But Utah, which is tied for last in gun control with 3 other states, has only a 1.9 per 100,000 murder rate. So Utah, which has almost no Gun Control has less than half the murder rate that New Jersey has.

        I could go on, but I would suggest instead that interested readers pick up a copy of this book and learn some reality that you won’t get from dishonest Liberal Progressives:
        http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493660/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355953881&sr=8-1&keywords=lott+guns

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        The murder rates in each of these countries is much lower than ours, whether or not we are talking specifically about gun related homicides. I specifically chose these numbers as the issue is guns, not just murder. Note that I also avoided gun related suicides. Had I not, or had I even referenced murders in general I have little doubt someone would have criticized me for that as well.

        As for Russia, their society is so vastly different from ours that the comparison seems ludicrous. The nations I chose have, in general more stringent gun laws than ours, still have reasonable levels of gun ownership and reflect the sorts of regulation most Americans might accept as opposed to Russia’s total ban.

      • DaveH

        In other words, Kinetic, you cherry-picked the data to support your position. How Liberal Progressive of you.
        For those wondering why I brought up the Russia issue:
        http://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7212&context=expresso

        From the report:
        “The false assertion that the U.S. has the industrialized world’s highest murder rate is an artifact of politically motivated Soviet minimization of true Russian homicide rates since at least 1965. As of many years before that date Russia had extremely stringent gun controls which were effectuated by a police state apparatus providing for extremely stringent enforcement. So successful was that regime that few Russian civilians have firearms and very few murders involve them.
        Yet manifest success in keeping its people disarmed has not prevented Russia from having far and away the highest murder rate in the developed world. In the 1960s and early ‘70s, gunless Russia’s murder rates paralleled (generally exceeded) those of gun-ridden America. As American rates first stabilized and then steeply declined, Russian murder increased so drastically that by the early 1990s the Russian rate was three times higher than the U.S. As of 1998-2004 (the latest figure available for Russia) Russian murder rates were nearly four times higher than American. Much higher murder rates than the U.S. ever had also characterize the Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and various other now-independent European parts of the former U.S.S.R. Thus in the U.S., the former Soviet Union, and current-day Russia, homicide results suggest that where guns are scarce other weapons are substituted in killings”.

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        For someone who spends most of his time accusing LPs of manipulation and obfuscation, you are the master.
        “In other words, Kinetic, you cherry-picked the data to support your position. How Liberal Progressive of you.”
        No, in other words I chose a few countries from Western Europe who are closely related to us. As you no doubt saw in another of my posts, I could have listed all the countries in Western Europe and still not come across 1 that comes close to our murder rate. Sure, you could turn to Russia or any of several former Soviet states, Africa or South America if your only goal is to try and find a nation with more crime, but this is about honest comparison, something you Dave seem to have issues with.

      • http://Aol.com CommonSense4America

        K1, concerning the U.K.,,,because guns were outlawed in the U.K.,,,ask how many home invasions occured while owners were at home and were bludgioned to death.

    • Jana

      By quoting it, Costas implied that he too believed it. Or else he sure spent a lot of time spouting and promoting something he didn’t believe!

      • eddie47d

        As tragic as the Chris Benoit case was in killing his wife and kid it was a family matter and kept within the family. He didn’t go out with a semi-automatic weapon and slaughter 27 unknown people. In Newton the Bushmaster.223 gave Adam a solid reason to kill total strangers who he had no beef with. Without a rapid firing weapon his “task” would have been much harder and probably wouldn’t have been done at all. He also had no bomb making experience in case one of you want to try and drag that up. Yes Adam is the holder of the weapon but the weapon gave him the power he otherwise never would have had.

      • DaveH

        On average 30 people a year have died from mass shootings since 1986.
        Compare that to just the 2011 number of murders from Colorado — 149, which by the way has one the lower murder rates in the 50 states.
        In 2011 there were 14,612 murders across the US.
        Clearly the mass shootings (though certainly not trivial to the victims) are but a drop in the bucket in the scheme of things. But the Liberal Progressives love to use them as an excuse for their ultimate goal of Gun Confiscation.

      • DaveH

        The truth is that a skilled killer with a single-shot sawed-off shotgun and 00 buckshot could easily take out that same number of victims if inclined to do so.
        Liberal Progressives, if you let them get their foot in the door, will not stop until they’ve taken all your weapons away and then they will proceed to help themselves to everything you’ve worked for all your life.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “In Newton the Bushmaster.223 gave Adam a solid reason to kill total strangers who he had no beef with”.
        Do you hear voices in your head, Eddie?

      • BobfromSoCal

        Hey eddie,

        From some of the reports that I have read, state that the .223 was locked in his trunk.

      • CZ52

        “From some of the reports that I have read, state that the .223 was locked in his trunk.”

        For most of two days we were told he used two pistols to commit the atrocity and the rifle was locked in the trunk of the car. Suddenly at the end of those two days we are told no, he did not use the handguns he used the rifle to do the shooting. So, if he did in fact use the rifle instead of the handgun the Conn. police are totaly incompatent and all involved should be fired because they do not know the difference in two handguns and a rifle or the “facts” are being changed to push someones anti gun agenda.

        • Jeff

          It’s too bad we can’t all be as “compatent” as you. On Monday mornings, I’ll bet you’re the best Sunday coach in the business.

      • eddie47d

        All three weapons were found beside his body. There was another one in the trunk of the car.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “DaveH,”

        CONSERVATIVES’ HANDS ARE NOT “CLEAN” ON THIS ISSUE, EITHER.

        ON ANOTHER WEBSITE, I SAW A VIDEO OF Former Governor Mike Huckabee (R-AR) SAYING THE CONNECTICUT TRAGEDY WAS THE RESULT OF THE REMOVAL OF PRAYER FROM SCHOOLS.

        SO, LIBERALS WANT NO GUNS AND CONSERVATIVES WANT MORE PRAYER – AND, PEOPLE STILL STRUGGLE WITH THE KENYAN’S RE-ELECTION.

      • DaveH

        Being religious does not make one a Conservative, Christopher.
        I’m not sure what Huckabee is, except that he’s definitely not Libertarian. I suspect that he’s a NeoCon.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “DaveH,”

        I WOULD NOT CALL A SOUTHERNER OF Governor Huckabee’s AGE A “NEO-CON.” THAT WOULD BE “RE-INVENTING THE WHEEL.”

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON,

          You write: “I WOULD NOT CALL A SOUTHERNER OF Governor Huckabee’s AGE A “NEO-CON.” THAT WOULD BE “RE-INVENTING THE WHEEL.” Then you need to rethink your definition.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        Bob Livingston,

        SIR, MAYBE I AM WRONG, BUT, IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING A TRADITIONAL CONSERVATIVE VALUES RELIGIOUS-BASED MORALITY, AS WELL AS, LIMITED GOVERNMENT AND SPENDING; WHEREAS, A “NEO-CON” ONLY VALUES LIMITED SOVERNMENT AND SPENDING.

        WHENEVER I HAVE HEARD Governor Huckabee DISCUSS SOCIAL ISSUES, HE ALWAYS INJECTS HIS RELIGIOUS VALUES – WHICH ARE IMPORTANT TO SOUTHERNERS OVER FIFTY; THEREFORE, I CONSIDER HIM TRADITIONAL CONSERVATIVE. I WOULD CALL REPUBLICANS LIKE, President George Walker Bush AND Senator John McCain (R-AZ), “NEO-CONS.”

        SOUTHERN ALLEGIANCE TO RELIGION MAKES THE DISTINCTION.

        • Jeff

          Christopher:

          The distinction is between old-line conservatives like Pat Buchanan, whose conservatism goes to the bone and is based, at least partially, in racism, anti-Semitism, isolationism, fear of the U.N., and a hatred of all government activity, and the Neocons who came out of a more left-wing tradition. The Neocons, many of whom are Jewish intellectuals like Wolfowitz, have no tradition of racism or isolationism, but have the same messianic zeal the Communists used to have about remaking society – only they switched sides and want to remake society in a right wing image.

          Some people known as Neocons, like Dick Cheney, are actually old-line conservatives but they still have the zeal to remake the world in their image. This, in broad brush, is the distinction between the two types. Unfortunately, in the W Administration we “enjoyed” the perfect storm mixture of the two and out of the cross-pollination came the Iraq War, dreamed up by Harvard Ph.D.s and implemented by a President without the horse sense to realize he was being sold a bill of goods. Those guys all had positions in the Reagan Administration but they were not major players.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Jeff,”

        DURING THE FIRST – LET US SAY, EIGHTY YEARS – OF THE TWENTIETH-CENTURY, THERE WERE TWO TYPES OF SOUTHERN CAUCASIANS – THOSE WHO WISHED NO HARM TO NEGROES AND THOSE WHO DID.

        BUT, THESE TWO GROUPS HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON – THEIR SHARED RELIGIOUS VALUES. THEY LIVED IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOODS AND ATTENDED THE SAME CHURCHES. MANY SOUTHERN CAUCASIANS OF “GOOD-WILL” TOWARDS NEGROES WERE UPSET THAT Ku Klux Klan UTILIZED THE CRUCIFIX AS A REPRESENTATIVE SYMBOL OF THE ORGANIZATION.

        “Jeff,” IF MY CHARACTERIZATION OF YOU IS WRONG, CORRECT ME. IN ANOTHER DISCUSSION YOU MENTIONED YOU HAD A HEBREW TEACHER IN EUROPE WHO RECENTLY DIED OF, “ALS.” THEREFORE, “Jeff,” I DO NOT THINK YOU UNDERSTAND – BASED ON YOUR COMMENTS – THE CULTURAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NORTHERN- AND SOUTHERN CAUCASIANS.

        “Jeff,” IN YOUR COMMENTS, YOU MADE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN THOSE WHO HATE “COLORED” PEOPLE AND HEBREWS ["old-line conservatives"], VERSUS, THOSE OF “GOOD-WILL” AND RELIGIOUS PIETY. THEN, “Jeff,” YOU STATED “NEO-CONS” CAME FROM A LEFT-WING TRADITION.

        “Jeff,” I AM NOT SAYING Governor Huckabee IS LIKE, Ku Klux Klan.

        “Jeff,” I AM DISAGREEING WITH YOUR COMMENTS BECAUSE FEELINGS ABOUT Ku Klux Klan OFTEN “BROKE-DOWN” ALONG FAMILIAL LINES – ONE BROTHER COULD BE A Klan Member, WHILE ANOTHER BROTHER PROVIDED AID TO A NEGRO; AND, THESE TWO BROTHERS WOULD SIT SIDE-BY-SIDE IN CHURCH.

        MY POINT IS, “Jeff,” HATRED OF NEGROES AND HEBREWS AND RELIGIOUS PIETY CAN EXIST IN PEACE WITHIN THE MINDS OF SOME SOUTHERN-CAUCASIAN CONSERVATIVES.

    • Jeff

      Yes, Belcher could have killed his girlfriend in other ways. He could have strangled her, poisoned her, or fixed her brakes so they didn’t work. He could probably kill her with one punch. But he didn’t do those things. He did it in the simplest way – with a gun. He reacted during an argument and pulled the trigger. Had he taken a few seconds, it probably wouldn’t have happened. Tempers flare, even for non-NFL players. For those who think the gun can “even the odds” between a 260 pound linebacker and his 120 pound girlfriend, it doesn’t seem to work that way. A woman living in a house with a gun is something like 12 times as likely to be a victim of gun violence as a woman who is not so “protected.”

      Now, does this mean all guns should be banned? No. Does it mean the NFL should institute a no-guns policy for its active players? Maybe. We have certainly seen enough young, rich athletes get themselves in trouble with DUIs and guns, but have we seen an athlete do something good with a gun? I don’t think so. The NFL should get its players in contact with drivers and armed security professionals so they can go out on the town as they please without committing mayhem.

      But if you’re a woman (or a man, for that matter) and you feel “safe” because there’s a gun in the house, think again. Is having the ability to shoot a teenage burglar who will run at the mere sight of a person in the house sufficient justification to have a weapon in the house far more likely to cause tragedy than to actually protect you?

      • Capitalist at Birth

        The reason to own a fire arm, is pure and simple, to protect oneself from a tyrannical government. That is the one and only reason for the second amendment. Anyone who thinks otherwise is part of the mob movement that keeps spouting the lie that we live in a democracy. B.S. This is a Republic. Learn to live with it. If you try to take my weapons away, be prepared, as I will resist to death if necessary. Yours or mine, makes no difference.

        • Jeff

          Good luck with that.

      • DaveH

        Jeff says — “He did it in the simplest way – with a gun. He reacted during an argument and pulled the trigger”.
        That gun just leaped into his hands? What would have kept him from pulling some scissors out of his shaving kit and stabbing her repeatedly until she died a slow and painful death? What would have been her only chance for survival against such brute force — a gun maybe?

      • DaveH

        Jeff says — “But if you’re a woman (or a man, for that matter) and you feel “safe” because there’s a gun in the house, think again”.
        That is just pure conjecture on your part, Jeff.
        Here’s just one example:
        http://abcnews.go.com/US/okla-woman-shoots-kills-intruder911-operators-shoot/story?id=15285605#.UNHkluSzjlc

      • Jana

        Wow DaveH, I am so proud of that girl.
        By the way, I would have done the same things. NO ONE will harm my children or their daddy. My husband is able to take care of himself very well, but I will certainly not stand in a corner and scream like you see in the movies. We have already practiced a few things so I will know what to do.
        My kids also know a few things.

      • DaveH

        Good for you, Jana. I’m proud of YOU.
        My girl, bless her heart, would probably not be of much use because she panics too easily.

    • http://twitter.com/michaelmcdani19 michael mcdaniel sr (@michaelmcdani19)

      the chiefs didn’t play for themsleves; AS THE ROMANS DID, they played to and for the crowds OF FOOLS that were watching that day…. the roman circuses and gladitorial games were entertainment for the masses when there were no wars to fight. THAT IS ALL what the modern sports games are all about, no matter the sport; even counting cheerleading. why do you think the modern arenas are basically designed after the roman coliseums? NOT for safety reasons as one would think, but to get the lot of you out as fast as possible so the next bunch of paying fools can come in and ENJOY the spectacular debacle. the powers that be would probably televise chess and checkers every sunday or so if they could make as lively as wizard’s chess. or maybe even frogger using real frogs and young kids driving.

      • olinda

        tell me about Fast and Furius…why the gov. was sending guns to the Cartell in mexico…….to kill Americans…yes or not?why Thimoty Macveigh buy fertilizer? We need guns to defend our family ………….

      • Kinetic1

        Olinda,
        Look again at the numbers. Those guns you have for “protection” are involved in a disproportionate number of deaths. The only way you can back up your claim is to suggest that our nation is far more violent than say Finland or Ireland, resulting in the need for gun violence. The only place the numbers are higher is South America and parts of Africa. Is that how you think of the U.S.?

      • DaveH

        Kinetic is spouting the typical Liberal Progressive conjecture. Those who would like a more factual treatment should read this:
        http://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7212&context=expresso

        excerpt from article:
        “Yet manifest success in keeping its people disarmed has not prevented Russia from having
        far and away the highest murder rate in the developed world. In the 1960s and early ‘70s, gunless Russia’s murder rates paralleled (generally exceeded) those of gun-ridden America. As
        American rates first stabilized and then steeply declined, Russian murder increased so drastically that by the early 1990s the Russian rate was three times higher than the U.S. As of 1998-2004 (the latest figure available for Russia) Russian murder rates were nearly four times higher than American”.

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        Thanks for the link and the excerpt. Here are a few others from that study:
        “For example, Luxembourg, where handguns are totally banned and ownership of
        any kind of gun is minimal, has a murder rate 10 times higher than gun-dense Norway and Germany where handguns are legal and gun ownership in general is very high.”

        Maybe when this was written, but as of 2008 Luxembourg’s murder rate is only twice that of Germany, and in fact their gun ownership level is 15.3 per 100, though they do not allow private ownership of hand guns. Yes, Germany does have a relatively higher gun ownership rate, 30.3 per 100 residents, but they also have strict regulations. Neither hand guns nor semi automatic guns are allowed without a permit. Norway is slightly higher than Germany with 31.3 guns, and while they do allow semi automatic weapons and pistols, both require a license.

        “Consider the wide divergence in murder rates among Continental European nations with widely divergent gun ownership rates. (Actually, those nations with least gun ownership generally seem to have the highest murder rates.)”

        Hmmm, France, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Austria and Germany all have about the same level of gun ownership (30 to 32 per 100) and their homicide rate fluctuates from .6 to 2.5 per 100,000. On average about 1.125. The England, Ireland, Scotland, Spain and Italy all share gun ownership ranging from 5 to 10 per 100, and their homicide rate is, on average about 1.2. And despite their claim, both the highest and lowest murder rates come from those nations with the highest gun ownership (Austria with .58 and Finland with 2.47.)

        So these facts and this article seem to prove little, other than that most of western Europe, where even the more relaxed countries still have more stringent gun laws than us is much more civilized than the U.S.. With gun ownership 2.5 to 15 times higher and a murder rate more than double their average, one has to wonder what our problem is. You can’t blame it on religion since we have a higher average attendance. And you can’t just blame it on violent video games and TV, they have those too. Perhaps there is something to be found in our obsession with guns. We, as a nation worship our right to own a gun. And the fact is, even though our murder rate is more than double that of most western European nations, our gun related murder rate is 16 times that of Western Europe. So, what’s our problem?

      • DaveH

        This article illustrates some of the fallacious nature of comparing other countries’ statistics to ours:
        http://extranosalley.com/?p=35096

        So we’re back to my original question, Kinetic. Why aren’t you comparing the States as I did for 2 states in an earlier comment?

        The States’ statistics clearly show an inverse correlation between gun ownership and violent crime (More Guns Less Crime).

      • DaveH

        Here for instance is a map showing States that have adopted Concealed Carry Shall-Issue laws since 1986:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rtc.gif

      • DaveH

        Notice that the number of states that allow Concealed Carry since 1991 has increased dramatically. Yet the Violent Crime rate has been shrinking dramatically since 1991:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Crime_over_time

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        You should really read your links before offering them as proof of your position. Here is just one of many interesting items from your link;
        “A careful statistical study relating local changes in lead exposure to local crime rates estimates the fraction of the crime decline due to lead reduction as greater than 90 percent.”

        So, does this show that crime increased due to more relaxed gun laws? No. Does it show that crime has decreased as a result of relaxed gun laws? No, unless you want to argue that “lead exposure” has something to do with concealed weapons …..

        No one I know of is talking about a total ban on guns, just stricter laws and increased enforcement of existing laws. Just look at the statistics.
        “In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the United States were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with a type of firearm not specified.”
        Doesn’t this say something about the prevalence of hand guns and their convenience?

        And for those of you who would argue that guns are just one of many tools one could use, let’s also consider this;
        “Due to the lethal potential that a gun brings to a situation, the likelihood that a death will result is significantly increased when either the victim or the attacker has a firearm. The mortality rate for gunshot wounds to the heart is 84%, compared to 30% for people who sustain stab wounds to the heart.”

        • Jeff

          I find it hard to believe these right wingers are actually as dense as they pretend. Wjhen presented with overwhelming statistics concerning guns and violent death, they respond by saying there are other ways to kill. While that is true, it is also quite irrelevant. A determined, professional car thief will steal your car regardless what security devices you have, but you are still safer with them because most thieves are looking for easy targets. In a similar vein, most homicides are not pre-planned murders. During an argument, tempers flare and people scream, throw things, even lash out and hit. If a gun is present, someone can easily get shot. If a gun is not present, a black eye might be the worst that happens. The potential shooter will not then call in a hit man. I don’t know about you but I’ve certainly had women get angry enough that if a gun were around they might have used it. Five minutes later they calm down, but with a gun it takes only a millisecond.

    • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

      agreeing with you Kinetic .. and john seems to ignore (I guess it’s because he lives in canada which has very restrictive gun laws) that the NFL has embarked on very comprehensive injury monitoring programs… if a player is knocked out in a game..he’s out of the game .. if he get’s his “clock rung” he is taken off field and evaluated by a doctor .. and in eithercase he may not return to play until the next game pplayed after vclearance .. two ravens playewrs were forced to the locker room this past sunday due to this policy .. also .. as a preventative measure, head to head contact brings a 15-yard penal y and in some cases banishment and heavy fines….

      and finally ..as for the second amendment .. seems funny to me that many of those seem so suppotive of it,, lack the same for Bob Costas’ first amendment rights..

      • DaveH

        Bob Costa’s First Amendment rights don’t give him the right to take away our Second Amendment rights.

      • eddie47d

        They (rights) are not being taken away as you always assume! Restricting usage or even a ban on certain type weapons doesn’t misuse the 2nd Amendment. What’s next Dave every home should have a bazooka just because you might say so. I think not!

      • DaveH

        As usual, Eddie must resort to hyperbole.
        On that subject, NOBODY should be allowed weapons of Mass Random Destruction — not even the State.
        But to be lawful, those exceptions should have been addressed with Constitutional Amendments.

    • DaveH

      Kinetic says — ““Wrote Jason Whitlock.” Do those words mean nothing to you? Is it appropriate to assign a quote to someone who clearly states that they are quoting another?”.
      That’s a mighty fine piece of Liberal Progressive spin, Kinetic.
      Did or did not those words come out of Bob Costa’s mouth? Did he or did he not intend to sway his audience with those words?
      It kinda reminds me of how you Liberal Progressives assuage your guilt about stealing money from others by convincing yourselves that you are just “voting”, so it isn’t the same thing as stealing that money directly from your victims.
      It is the same thing, Kinetic. Liberal Progressives are just common thieves no matter how you try to equivocate it. And now they want to disarm us so they can magnify their theft.
      http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2012/12/03/bob-costas-nbc-jovan-belcher-guns-jason-whitlock-second-amendment/1744067/

      • DaveH

        I say all Freedom-Loving Football Fans should boycott Bob Costas. It seems that Liberal Progressives understand only one thing — Money (usually other peoples’). Hit them where it hurts.

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        Please do me the courtesy of reading what I have to say before attacking my words. This is essentially the same message I was making with John. Context and quotes mean a lot. In your/my case, had you read further you would have seen that I did recognize Costas’ consent of Whitlock’s words.

        “So there they are, the words of FOX Sports reporter Jason Whitlock. Not mine (though I reprinted them here) and not Costas’ (though he agrees and paraphrased them on TV.)”

        Which lead to my broader question, why attack Costas and ignore Whitlock who said so much more?

      • DaveH

        Because Bob Costas appeals to a much larger crowd. But both of them, of course, are worthy of rebuttal.

      • DaveH

        Were you, or were you not, attacking John Myers for not attributing what Bob Costas said on-Air to the original author, Kinetic? And did John Myers, or did he not, include the actual broadcast where Bob Costas mentioned that he was quoting Jason Whitlock?
        You are, as usual Kinetic, clutching for straws.

      • Jeff

        CB:

        I don’t think Costas regrets a word of what he said. He clearly was quoting Whitlock, but what really matters is the idiotic criticism he got from the right wing morons on TV. They accused him of advocating “gun control” and “giving a dissertation on the 2nd amendment.” Did you hear him say any of those things? Could he have been thinking them? Possibly, but who ever said that the only appropriate commentary in sports is the kind of idiotic banter you get from Terry Bradshaw and Howie Long? Don’t get me wrong. I like both of those guys, but I think there’s room in sports journalism for actual thinking.

        I’m sure you wouldn’t complain a bit if Bernie Goldberg said something pro-gun or pro tax cut on a sports show. I might criticize the substance of what he said but not his daring to say it on a sports show.

      • DaveH

        What does CB stand for, Jeff? Tell the readers so they can see the typically adolescent behavior of a Liberal Progressive.

        Jeff says — “They accused him of advocating “gun control” and “giving a dissertation on the 2nd amendment”.
        Are you kidding, Jeff? You’ve become so brazen now in your lies that you think people won’t actually listen to the video in John’s article and see just how dishonest you are?

        • Jeff

          CB:

          You are exceeding even your normal degree of creepiness. There are, at this time, numerous Costas videos. I was talking about the first one, delivered during half time, in which he carefully avoided directly advocating gun control or any comments about the 2nd amendment. Yes, in subsequent appearances, he was asked questions about gun control and he answered them. When you accuse people of lying, you demonstrate a decided lack of cognitive ability. We can disagree about a subject without either of us being a liar.

          Now, are Costas’ views on the subject clear? I would say they are. He is a sane, sentient person who recognizes we have a problem with the “gun culture.” Is he advocating the elimination of all guns in the home? Clearly not. Would Belcher, his girlfriend, their son, and virtually all young athletes be better off without guns? I think Costas and I agree on this one.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “DaveH,”

        SIR, LATELY, I HAVE BEEN READING YOUR COMMENTARY WITH MORE CRITICAL INTENSITY. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING CONSERVATIVE, BUT, YOU MUST REMAIN WITHIN THE REALM OF REALISM.

      • DaveH

        As I suspected, Jeff doesn’t have the honesty to answer my question, so I will just tell the readers what the adolescent Jeff means by CB — Creepy Bastard.
        He calls me that because I show him to be the ignorant Liberal Progressive that he is. Name-Calling is always the tool of choice for Liberal Progressives because they can not use Facts or Logic to support their nonsense.
        As he showed in his latest comment, Jeff is also dishonest, as anybody can see when they watch the top video in John Myer’s article.

        Do you have no shame, Jeff?

        • Jeff

          No, Dave, I call you that because you personally insult everyone who disagrees with you.

        • Jeff

          So you and the rest of the gun nuts here think all you need to be safe is more guns in the hands of civilians? Ever hear of Joe Zamudio? He was on the scene at the Tucson shooting of Gabby Giffords. There are 2 links here, the first is an appearance on the Ed Schultz Show, described by the Ron Paul people as Zamudio “schooling” Ed Schultz on the value of guns. Notice in the video he says he would have shot the guy holding the gun. (I think Ed missed it.) In fact, as is developed in the second link, and by Zamudio’s own recent confession, he almost shot the wrong guy. More civilians with more guns is not the answer!

          Zamudio.1:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-3GTwalrGY
          Zamudio.2:
          http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41018893/ns/slate_com/t/armed-giffords-hero-nearly-shot-wrong-man/#.UNJqw-Thr4U

        • Jeff

          OMG, even Christopher realizes you’re “out there,” to say the least.

      • DaveH

        Christopher says — “YOU MUST REMAIN WITHIN THE REALM OF REALISM”.
        I am steeped in realism, Chris, much more so than the average Brainwashed citizen.
        Feel Free to dispute anything I say. Or you could just be like a typical Liberal Progressive and issue vague generalizations which are difficult to rebut in a short comment.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        WOW!, “Jeff,”

        HAVING A LOW OPINION OF ME IS FINE; BUT, DO NOT THINK I AM UNABLE TO REASON.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “DaveH,”

        IF I HAD A “LOW” OPINION OF YOU, I WOULD NOT TAKE THE TIME TO TYPE THIS COMMENT.

        SO, “DaveH,” I WANT YOU TO ANSWER ME – HONESTY. I ASSUME – BY, NOW – YOU BELIEVE I AM NEGRO.

        “DaveH,” YOU REFER TO ME AS BEING, “liberal progressive.” YET, YOU HAVE HAD AN ABUNDANCE OF OPPORTUNITY TO READ MY VARIOUS COMMENTS. YOU KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT RACE AND RELIGION – I WANT THE KENYAN TO BE IMPEACHED, I THINK Osama bin Laden WAS “RAILROADED,” ETC. SO, “DaveH,” HOW MANY LIBERALS DO YOU KNOW WHO SHARE MY VIEWS ON THESE ISSUES?

        “DaveH,” I BELIEVE YOU REFER TO ME AS LIBERAL BECAUSE YOU KNOW I AM HOMOSEXUAL.

        “DaveH,” THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENTATIVE SITUATION; I MERELY WOULD LIKE YOUR OPINION. BE FRANK, SIR.

        BY THE WAY, “DaveH,” YOU CONGRATULATED ME WHEN I MENTIONED I VOTED FOR, Governor Gary Johnson. SO, EITHER YOU [OR, I] DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE DEFINITION OF LIBERTARIANISM; OR, YOU THINK THE MAJORITY OF LIBERTARIANS ARE SALACIOUSLY-OVERT AND “CLOSETED” LIBERALS WITH MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS.

    • DaveH

      Kinetic says — “Both Mr. Costas and Mr. Whitlock were questioning the lack of perspective in sports. Here a man kills his girlfriend in front of her mother and child, then kills himself in front of his coach, right there where the team plays and just hours later there is a game going on. Is the game really so important that this tragedy should be ignored?”.
      Lack of Perspective? How about the lack of perspective it takes to try to convince football fans, who get their thrills by watching an extremely violent Sport, that a Gun, an inanimate object, is the perpetrator of a crime? Why not question the frame of mind that football might put people in? Why not talk about banning Football?
      No, I don’t want to ban Football. I’m just making a point.

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        Good Lord man, are you truly that obtuse or are you just blinded by your need to take down Liberals? The point Mr. Whitlock and Mr. Costas were making is that we have placed sports above human decency. We, as a society are so hungry for football (and the producers are so hungry for profits) that we would rather go on with the game than to take a day and reflect on the potential for violence that comes from such sports, including the issues that John discusses in his article. Your opposing opinion on gun control does nothing to diminish their point on America’s lack of perspective when it comes to football.

      • DaveH

        I do enjoy taking down Liberal Progressives, Kinetic. But it really isn’t much of a challenge for anybody who has spent some time doing some actual reading and thinking.
        As far as Costas putting down football fans for wanting to see the game, rather than feigning solemnity for the victims of violence, I find that rather hard to believe. He makes his living from those fans and I think, as ignorant as Costas has proven to be with his stance on Gun Control, even he would be careful not to tread that hard on the fans.
        What kind of “human decency” are you referring to, Kinetic, when it is you Liberal Progressives who use every notable shooting as a platform from which to launch your Gun Control efforts? As I stated earlier, your support for spending other peoples’ money on abortions belies any sympathy that you would claim towards the Children.
        And Kinetic, I speak very clearly, very concisely. You need to look up the meaning of Obtuse. Obviously you don’t know it.

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        For your edification:
        “ob·tuse
        /əbˈt(y)o͞os/
        Adjective
        Annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.”

        Yes, I understood what I was saying. The only question is why I didn’t attribute these characteristics to your sooner.

      • DaveH

        Good Grief, now Kinetic is making up definitions.
        From Merriam Webster:
        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obtuse

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        Oh Dave, you are in rare form today. From your link;
        “2 a : lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : insensitive, stupid”

        Words often have more than one meaning, Dave. Now here’s another word for you:
        i·ro·ny1 [ahy-ruh-nee, ahy-er-] Show IPA
        noun, plural i·ro·nies.
        5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.
        “The irony is that, in his effort to prove he was not obtuse, he confirmed that he is.”

      • DaveH

        Stupid? I’m surprised that you would insinuate such, Kinetic, since I regularly expose you for the fool you are. So what would that make you, if I’m “stupid” — really really stupid?

    • DaveH

      Kinetic says — “Handguns do not enhance our safety”.
      They don’t? Try telling Cops that. Try disarming Cops.
      Try telling that to the victims of violent crime who thwart those crimes everyday across our country. Here is just one example:
      http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/08/armed-self-defense-in-california.php

      • DaveH

        For those who might fall under the Svengali Spell of emotional Liberal Progressive Propaganda:
        http://gunowners.org/fs0404.htm

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        Thanks for reaffirming my point. I did not say ” “Handguns do not enhance our safety”. That was part of Mr. Whitlock’s article that I presented for context. I clearly stated that I was reprinting his article and placed it in quotes. I even followed up by reasserting that those were his words! Never did I say whether or not I agreed with that statement. I didn’t even imply my agreement or disagreement, but the fact that I printed these words, in whatever context was enough for you to assign ownership. Anything to get in a shot.

        In the spirit of tit for tat, DaveH said,
        “You have drunk the Kool-Aid, Mom.”
        Now Dave, Is that any way to talk to your own mother?

      • DaveH

        If that was your point, Kinetic, why didn’t you just link to Jason’s article? Why reprint the whole thing, taking up unnecessary space on Bob’s server?
        I have no way to prove it, of course, but I think you did it because you agree with his point of view. And here is some evidence to back up my claim:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/12/19/the-nfl-needs-its-head-examined-before-it-advocates-gun-control/#comment-787862

      • DaveH

        How can you tell when a Liberal Progressive is lying? Their lips are moving.

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        Dave, Dave, Dave. Do you really believe that you are so brilliant that you can read minds, or did you just need an excuse for your failure to accurately read my post? My reason for posting Mr. Whitlock’s article is of no consequence in this discussion. The fact is, you attributed the words of another to me simply because I quoted them. You either made a mistake or chose to suggest to others that I made that statement. Face it, no matter how you come at it, you made my point. You could have suggested that I felt the same, or even asked if I did before making your point, but you didn’t. Even if I agree with the statement, even if you have proof from another source you were wrong to attribute it to me. End of story.

      • DaveH

        Don’t waste your Liberal condescension on me, Kinetic. Unlike the ignorant people you hang with, it doesn’t work on me.
        I posted a link to one of your comments on today’s board. It really doesn’t take much of mind-reader to know what you really are, Kinetic.
        But here is another one from a previous board:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/12/17/nra-silent-on-connecticut-school-shooting/#comment-787009

        You’re pathetic, Kinetic.

      • Kinetic1

        DaveH,
        Oh how the pompous fall. It’s embarrassing to watch you flail about, so I’m going to let you off the hook and say no more about this. Enjoy your day/evening.

      • DaveH

        Is Mommy calling you to dinner, Kinetic?

    • Old Henry
    • http://yahoo Robert

      Have you any clue what they did in the days of Rome? We are animals at best, Pretending we’re civalized. Money is our only virtue, and nothing stops that. our drive our goal, life force. I don’t like much of what I see anymore but once in awhile Inocense of a child makes me laugh and breath in hope that a better humanity will surrpas our greed and need for technology.

  • Warrior

    It’s quite possible that if the behavior of our “elected” leaders changed, maybe societies sh$tty outlook may change as well. Should there be a “left” and a “right” or maybe just do what’s “Right”? Follow the Commandments and you can’t go wrong!

    • DaveH

      What else can we expect but violence and turmoil when our Leaders have set, by example, our course to becoming a Society of Criminals?
      http://mises.org/daily/4125

  • rb

    So you don’t think a guy that just signed a $1.9 million contract would own an gun even if they were illegal. Yea….right. The only difference would be the crime was committed with an illegal gun.

    • rb

      “a gun” not an gun. oops

  • http://TheMiracleofSelfPower Iris D. Lynch

    This is about POWER, plain and simple. There are many kinds of power, including psychological and physical. They are using the first to obtain the second. Any THINKING person knows this. Trouble is ‘thinking’ may be a lost art.

    • Warrior

      Iris, think about this. If hillary has a concussion, shouldn’t bill be getting rid of his guns? Anyway, the way I see it now, there is NO WAY she will ever be fit to run for prez. Besides the usual qualifications to become prez, whatever they are these days, anyone that has ever had a concussion should not be able to occupy that office.

  • dan

    “How many young people have to die senselessly? How many lives have to be ruined before we realize the right to bear arms doesn’t protect us from a government equipped with stealth bombers, predator drones, tanks and nuclear weapons?”
    er…someone should point that out to the terrorists. I’m not defending against aircraft battle groups…I’m worried about the gangsta meth-head and the brain addled mass murderer.

    • ian buda

      You claim to be so right against guns WHEN YOU CAN’T even stand for the hundreds of kids being killed daily in the abortion clinics of this administration and country. Why don’t you go after the doctors and their wards at the Planned Parenthood Death Clinics !!!!!

    • BobfromSoCal

      I for one do not believe that all of the patriots in the military would sit back and just let the government wipe out around 200,000,000 Americans with the weapon systems that you refer to. Those weapons would eventually be turned back on the people giving such evil orders.

  • TIME

    Dear People,

    Can anyone truly admit that watching grown men beat the living hell out of each other is a sport?

    Let alone can anyone really say ~ that to sit like a zombie for hours on end watching a plastic stupid box while eating a ton of GMO crap is of any real value?

    Let alone combine these two platforms then add in how many human waste materials per event telling you what your watching, {in their own opinions} thus validiating that you’re IDIOT for watching, let alone for listening to them and their opinions on anything.

    Would you take the “opinion” of any other type of IDIOT?

    We as a nation have become walking talking ZOMBIES who can’t even think for ourself any longer without the aid of IDIOTS telling us
    {what we see,}
    {what we need,}
    {what we hear}
    {what we should eat, drink, and how to do it all}.

    The world’s Cosmology should be of a higher value than to allow IDIOTS to RULE over you, and yes you’re being ruled by IDIOTS in all demensions when you listen to or watch any Televised alledged event be it sports or political issuess etc..

    Wake up people. The bloody nation is falling down around you, so the question is why would anyone give value to the mindless opinions of an IDIOT on the plastic stupid box?

    Peace and LOVE, Merry Christmas Shalom

    • BobfromSoCal

      Time has not changed the evil nature of the heart of mankind. This is no different than the Roman Coliseum, where they watched the most brutal of acts for entertainment. Why do you think the brutality in movies has become so prevalent. It’s because people enjoy it. People need to turn from their evil ways and turn back to God. Anything less than that will not fix the problem.

      • Jeff

        That hardly addresses the problem of gun violence in America. Other advanced countries have the same or greater aversion to religion as we do but about 1% of the gun deaths. the same is true of violent video games, movies, and music. The problem appears to be less in the culture and more in the ready availability of high-powered guns. I find it ironic that so many “Christian” voices are so pro-gun at any cost. What kind of gun would Jesus carry?

      • CZ52

        This is talking about Britain but applies to most if not all of western Europe.

        “The few counter examples offered by gun control zealots do not stand up under scrutiny. Perhaps their strongest talking point is that Britain has stronger gun control laws than the United States and lower murder rates.

        But if you look back through history, you will find that Britain has had a lower murder rate than the United States for more than two centuries-and for most of that time, the British had no more stringent gun control laws than the United States. Indeed, neither country had stringent gun control for most of that time.

        In the middle of the 20th century you could buy a shotgun in London with no questions asked. New York, which at that time had the stringent Sullivan Law restricting gun ownership since 1911, still had several times the gun murder rate of London, as well as several times the London murder rate with other weapons.

        Neither guns nor gun control was the reason for the difference in murder rates. People were the difference.”

        From an article by Thomas Sowell.

    • TIME

      Dear Jeff,

      Other than your being one more totaly uneducated person who insist on lending your ~ “barren fruitless opinons” as if they were pertinent value to as a form of social construct.

      Thus I would ask that you please refrain from displaying your utter ignorance as if it were pearls of wisdom you bring forth, when in fact its a sad display of nothing more nor less than a mentally deficency issue.

      Let me be the first to inform you; ~ the vast array of your post display at best a 75 IQ ~ that being quite DULL~ UN informed – Un Educated – not unlike a misguided child who has no nipple to suckel on.

      Shalom

  • nc

    Mr. Myers, have you looked at the list of Major League Baseball players who have committed suicide? What reason is there to suspect that the major reason would be brain damager from that sport? What is in common is the large number of baseball suicides that resulted from “self inflicted gunshot wounds.” I think a more common denominator is the depression of the athletes who could not function outside the sport!

    But back to the guns! We have thousands of schools with millions of children in this country so we can EASILY afford to have 30 or more school kids killed a year so the 2nd amendment gets it’s full “protection”???! RIGHT?? No problem! It’s just another incident? Just one of 31 school shootings since Columbine! Just a problem too large for us to solve or at least lessen?????????????????????????? This is the time for the NRA to act for all Americans not the just the ones who own guns!

    • Jonathan

      nc you are absolutely insane!!!!!!!!!!

    • Walter77777

      Guns are precisely the problem! A gun, especially a handgun, permits killing on the spur of the moment. It is claimed that Belcher shot Ms. Perkins when he found out that he may not have been the father of her child. If this is true he might certainly have reconsidered had he had time to think about it, and he might have realized that he could simply get court support removing him from child support obligations.

      W.

      • DaveH

        He could have done the same thing with a sharp folding knife, but in a more gruesome and painful way.

    • DaveH

      Liberal Progressives love to try to turn the tables on Good People.
      The fact is that just one gun in the hands of the Principle or some other school administrator could have save the lives of many of those children — maybe most. But that wasn’t possible because the Liberal Progressives have made that illegal. And then they have the nerve to try and blame that on the rest of us who have some common sense.
      The truth is that Liberal Progressive could care less about the children. They are just using them to achieve their ultimate goal of Gun Confiscation. The fact that they work so diligently to make other people pay for their abortions belies their claims of compassion for the children.
      Liberal Progressives with their gun controls are no different in Principle to those people who physically restrain a victim while somebody else does the dirty work. They have those children’s blood on their hands, as well as the blood of any other victim who might have been able to save themselves if not for Gun Control.

    • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

      to nc .. depression might be a side effect of Performance Enbhancing Drugs … you know steroids.. human growth hormones etc ….
      as for brand .. so now ultra-conservatives are telling us what we can do with our spare time … and as for felons … you might want to check alot of other profdessions ..see, pro-atheletes and celebrities get press when they get busted but does your boss get witten up when he gets a felony drunk driving hit ..the kid across the street when busted for auto theft … and the guy at the Seven 11 for beating the snot out of hius wife ??t

    • http://yahoo Robert

      Act by asking your childs teachers to recieve proper training an carry for thereselves the lives of the children. At Front Sight they can go from ZERO to profeciant in just 4 days. Those who would sacrafice there lives for the children should dedicate themselves to the training an become a living hero an not a dead one. Not that hard to assume responsibility for your own safety? Who knows responsable citizens arming thenselves? that has notbeen tried.give it a shot? “no pund intended”

    • TIME

      Dear NC,

      I guess you don’t even read the mindless dribble your protent to have knowledge of, after all as this “ALLEDGED” killer had 2 – 9 mm hand guns yet not a single 9mm casing was found,
      Thus 9mm handguns were not used, In fact I am starting to think that this whole has been staged and never even happened “based on Facts” that many of the alledged persons don’t even exist,

      But that takes digging to find, not just being a mindless shill who post worthless rhetroic based on some twisted agenda you wish to sell.

      Perhaps you should refrain from making statments as your clearly are at best demented, but more than likly a SHILL for the Corporate Bankers.

      Shalom

  • http://twitter.com/michaelmcdani19 michael mcdaniel sr (@michaelmcdani19)

    WHO CARES what the NFL thinks. most people in the NFL today DO NOT know enough about FOOTBALL or GUNS to comment on either one. that includes bob costas, he shouldn’t comment period after hearing some of his broadcasts. in fact most of the football commentators should JUST KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT.

    • DaveH

      Boycott Bob Costas.

    • eddie47d

      Boycott insanity! Oops that would include Dave H! Costas is one of the better commentators on sports. Doesn’t have to throw alot of macho hype around to get his point across.

      • DaveH

        Isn’t it a little late in the day to be out from under your bridge, Eddie?

  • Simon. Bennett -Odlum

    There is such a lot of blather going on about gun control, all by misinformed people who will barter away our freedoms for some perceived personal or political gain, or both, so let us get this right, right now.

    The purpose of our Founding Fathers in creating the Right to Bear Arms Amendment was to give the people the fire power to use, if deemed necessary, by We The People, in the event of Our Government stepping out of line , the ability to have the fire power to overthrow an abusive, controlling, corrupt body of politicians and government “servants”, where the circumstances of government power becomes so overbearing that our freedom is called into question.

    For that end, we need to have assault weapons because the military and law enforcement complexes DO have assault weapons, and, sorry folks, but Glocks and 12 gauge shotguns definitely come up short in that scenario.

    With our freedom constantly under attack by greedy political Pundits and greedier politicians, all in the name of “National Security”, the resentment of government continues to grow towards an irreversible boiling point, when the vast, wise majority, will decide that it is time to unseat those who usurp our rights in the furtherance of their corrupt goals.

    In my personal view of the present situation, that day is not too far off, and I, for one, will keep my guns, thank you!

    • nc

      Simon, is your ‘second amendment right” not a political and personal” matter with you? Others can’t have “political and personal” positions different from you? Is that what the founding fathers intended? That only the people with guns are right?? Where in the amendment does it say that the purpose of the amendment is to give the people the power to bring down the government by force? Is it not the intention of the Constitution to provide for the peaceful replacement of government instead of a situation where a bunch of paranoid people can do it by force??

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        What is America coming to when we turn to actors and actresses, sport celebrites and their like for our political decisions and persuasions? Can’t we think and make decisions on our own with the necessary input to do it intellegently? People are turning their LIVES, LIBERTIES and PROPERTIES over to celebrities who have their own political persuasions.

      • nc

        Christian, do you mean the likes of Ronald Reagan, Chuck Norris, Eastwood and that guitar player?? I agree!!

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        Our, all of our, rights come from God. It is because we have rights, we form governments.
        Man is evil by nature, out of control. If a man cannot learn to be in control, he must be dealt with accordingly. That can be where the 2nd Amendment comes in.

        • Jeff

          Is that what Jesus told you? Right after “turn the other cheek” comes “then blow him away with your M-16″? Whatever the merits of your “position,” it is anything but “Christian.”

      • CZ52

        “Others can’t have “political and personal” positions different from you? Is that what the founding fathers intended? ”

        nc the difference is those having positions different from Simon want to prevent Simon from excersizing his right while Simon is not trying to force them to take up guns.

  • http://none nick beck

    simon—-i could not say it better

  • ToughGuy1

    Pinheads Costas and Obama. Impeach Obama – Biden 2013!

  • DaveH

    Let’s face it. There’s only one Real reason for the anti-gun fervor and that’s that the Leaders are getting tired of being patient in our complete subjugation.

    • eddie47d

      More BS from Dave H to stoke his already inflated ego.

      • DaveH

        More Trollish comment from Eddie.

        • Jeff

          More creepy personal insults from C.B. himself.

    • phideaux

      More usless and inane comments from eddie and Jeff.

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    Gun control is something Satan is putting in men’s heads. In this situation we don’t need gun control, we needed EVIL CONTROL. We find evil and Satan in music. We find evil and Satan in our video games. We find Satan and evil in our dress codes. We find Satan and evil in our movies and TV. We’re fantasizing with Satan’s “entertainment and clothes” and some of us are turning those fantasies into REALITIES, like the shooter’s at Newtown, Columbine, Aurora and God knows where else. That young man had turned himself over to Satan, body, soul, and spirit. Their saying he was a psycho but anyone that surrenders themselves to Satan IS a psycho. God and Satan are competing for men’s minds and souls. People that can distinguish between good and evil will know what I mean. Their consciences tells them but not all have consciences. We should treat Satan as the destroyer of our lives, not play with him. This is what happens when you do.

    As far as guns go, their not the problem, Satan and his evil is. As a God fearing American gun owner i resent being grouped together with a Satanic killer. My biggest fear is, are Satan and his servants behind gun legislation? In this last century, there was two governmental systems that stripped their people of the right to keep and bear arms. They were NAZIISM and COMMUNISM. The seed for both of them is planted in America. Are people planning to use this tragedy to propagate either one of them? This is not a time for gun legislation. It’s a time to repeal gun legislation. God Fearing moral people need their arms to defend themselves against the pending tyranny. That’s what the 2nd Amandments all about. The American revolution started because the red coats came to gather up the people’s arms at Bunker Hill. Their battle cry was “NO KING BUT JESUS”. Jesus had no problem with the people having arms, Those that would put them in bondage did. Is this just a repeat of history? The only thing new is the history you haven’t heard yet.

    • Walter77777

      Christian American: It is a myth that the nazis (Y’makh sh’mom v’zikrom!)* passed many gun control laws. Prior to 1933 and all that long guns had to be registered and handgun possession was restricted to law enforcement, and to persons with much training and background check who had responsibilities as bodyguards and guardians of valuables.
      The only gun control law I know of passed in Germany was to bar Jews fro owning any guns.

      W.

      * Blot out their names and memories! — Hebrew curse upon enemies of the Jews.

      • DaveH

        For those who require more than conjecture from a Liberal Progressive to make up their minds:
        http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        As I recall, Hitler made a statement to the extent that he was proud Nazi Germany was the first “civilized” country that had gun control. Hitler controlled guns by charging astronimcal fees for licenses. That way, only wealthy Nazis had guns, Isn’t that Blomberg in NYC is doing?

      • eddie47d

        If you want to use that analogy Christian American then the “other side” in America doesn’t want to be a Taliban nation where we are all at the mercy of the barrel of a gun. Comply to their wishes or die. Not sure if your wife would appreciate their way of subjugation!

  • nc

    DaveH. “complete subjugation” is looking out from behind a barbed wire fence because of your political views or having to have “papers” approved by the government to travel from state to state or having government knocking on your door just to see what you are watching or reading and punishing you if it’s the wrong stuff! Complete subjugation is Not when you and your 1% don’t get your way!

    • DaveH

      I don’t intend to wait until we get there, NC.
      And I’m certainly not in the 1%. But you unwittingly aid the 1%, no matter who defines the membership of that 1%. What must it feel like to be a pawn and not even know it?
      http://mises.org/daily/5776/The-State-is-the-1-Percent

      • nc

        DaveH, you are a slave to a system that has never worked and you call me a pawn? You are like a mule! You have neither pride of ancestry nor hope of posterity with your meager following You will be here for the next 20 years trying to sell that same apple!

      • DaveH

        Can you give some examples, NC, of that system that has “never worked”?
        I can give plenty of examples of Pure Socialism that hasn’t worked — Cuba, Russia, China, North Korea…….
        Your turn, NC.

      • DaveH

        Socialism can only work in conjunction with Capitalism because Socialism cannot stand on its own legs without the shoulders of Capitalists on which to ride. Socialism is a negatively productive system where only the Leaders and their Pals prosper at the rest of the peoples’ expense.
        We can see the results of Socialism by studying those countries at the bottom of this list (those with the most Government intrusion in their economies):
        http://heritage.org/index/ranking

        Also study the economies of East Germany and West Germany after their WWII split-up. They originated with the same cultures. One was thrown into Communism. The other mostly practiced Free Market Capitalism. One, decades later, had an economy that was dramatically weaker than the other.

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        Of course involuntary socialism by all it’s name is non productive, but tyrants by all their names have been trying it since the world began. People want other people to do as they say. It’s much better if the “other people” cannot defend themselves.

      • eddie47d

        Get it straight Christian unAmerican the 2nd Amendment isn’t going anywhere. How many times do you have to be told that you will still have the right to defend your family? Semi-automatics defend nothing and is a false security blanket.

      • DaveH

        Your swollen flapping lips are a false security blanket, Eddie you Troll.

      • CZ52

        ” Semi-automatics defend nothing and is a false security blanket.”

        eddie try telling that to the thousands upon thousands who have used a semi-automatic to stop or prevent a crime.

  • Bren

    Dan,
    Yes our military has a lot of toys that out weigh guns but there are more law abiding gun owners in just three states than there are people in our military (and if Obama gets his way the military will be cut even more). It is that reason we stand as a free nation, all other armies of the world are out gunned by our privet citizens. The founders knew to remain free we need privet gun ownership and that includes to remain free from our own government as well as any other nation that might get froggy.

    Guns are not the problem. Society and the thrust for violence is the problem. We are bombarded with violence on T.V., the radio, video games, movies…etc. Violent sports cause head injury that are not treated properly. The recreational drug use is damaging to the brain, the government grooming a “give me” attitude and belief that we are owed something just because we exist instead of for our effort (and attitude which breeds hopelessness) all contribute to the problem and cause a lack of ability for some to reason. But no one ever puts these thing together it’s just easy to blame a gun. When we focus on the negative things of this life and abuse our bodies with substances that we should not use depression and hopelessness take their tole. It doesn’t help that we have an administration that is adding economic upheaval to the mix.

    To blame guns is just another way of avoiding the real problems. The problem of personal responsibility. It is going to take people taking responsibility for themselves and their choices. It is going to take people facing the idea that just because you can do something maybe it’s not something you should do. It’s going to take people realizing we are not alone and we need to learn to live together and not be so selfish about the “I” and “me” factor. The old 70′s mantra of “As long as it doesn’t hurt anyone, if it feels good do it.” is a fallacy and always has been. Our actions, even if at the moment seems to only effect us, always have ramifications that go beyond ourselves. I want, I need, give me are to prevalent in today’s society. There are few true neighborhoods left, mostly we are just streets with house that people we don’t know live in. If we would reach out to the people around us and quit focusing on ourselves this world would be a much better place.

    Guns are not the problem, people and society are.

    • Walter77777

      Bren and Chula: Guns are the problem. Japanese kids play violent video games all the time, but their crime rate is low, and the number of crimes committed with guns is tiny.

      Guns to protect against actions by the government is madness. Actually the mad lee Harvey Oswald considered his Mannlicher Carcano carbine to be the instrument for him to retaliate against the Bay off Pigs invasion.

      W.

      • DaveH

        Comparing one culture to another completely different culture is just plain fallacious. But then what else could we expect from a man who swallows the story that John Kennedy was killed by a Lone Nut?

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      One of the biggest threat to a government like we have is a military takeover. Obama, knows that. What would happen if all the soldiers came home? Election time Ron
      Paul carried the soldiers by far. He knows that to.

  • Lorraine E

    When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

    • eddie47d

      Guns are not being outlawed. Hopefully only the unnecessary semi-automatics will go the way of the Barbarians.

  • Savvy Chula

    Guns are more for our protection from the tyranny of a government. Nobody is pounding on this. Why stop law abiding citizens to bear arms, just in case our government becomes a fascist dictatorship government, like Venezuela and Cuba. Gun control is the first thing that these dictators did, disarm the people. Now we want to disarm the 2nd amendment of the constitution, that will empower the government? Why is our government so intent of disarming the citizens, disarming the 2nd amendment? What are they preparing for? Why cant they not ban terrorist from coming into the country? Why did they spend billions of dollars to aid Egypt instead of supporting the school system security? Why is the government cutting down on our military and sending more money to middle-east countries who hates us? These are the questions you need to answer in your mind. These are true concerns…. “Never forget, even for an instant, that the one and only reason anybody has for taking your gun away is to make you weaker than he is, so he can do something to you that you wouldn’t let him do if you were equipped to prevent it. This goes for burglars, muggers, and rapists, and even more so for policemen, bureaucrats, and politicians.” – Aaron Zelman and L. Neil Smith, Hope (2001). That is why our founding fathers added the 2nd amendment, for us to curtail a tyrant government, again why is the government so intent in disarming us? If this guy didnt have a gun, he would have found another way of doing it, dyi bombs are all over the internet….. Think fellow citizens….

  • Bren

    Just out of curiosity I looked at the correlation between Liberal states with more strict gun laws and conservative states, some having more strict laws. It was very interesting. there were 41 school shootings listed of that 12 took place in conservative states and 39 took place in liberal states. So if over three times as many took place in liberal states with stricter gun laws how is it the guns that are the problem? Maybe it’s the liberal attitudes that prevail in society. It’s not the guns it’s the way people think.

    • nc

      Bren, where would the conservatives be unhappiest and most likely to go postal and kill a lot of people??? In liberal states! Why can; that be an answer?

      • DaveH

        Do you have any evidence to back up your conjecture, NC?

      • CZ52

        Of course he does DaveH and he will post it just as soon as his imagination can come up with it.

  • Paul

    The NFL, Major League baseball, NBA, Pop Warner, Little league World Series, Little girl beauty contests, all are part of the sickness of materialism this country is obsessed with. The moral center has been replaced by the “entertainment, look at me” center. The moral sickness of this country is evident by the rise of sports, entertainment at all levels of our society. This rise comes at the expense of the most important “social glue” that holds the country together namely, church, neighborhood, and family. Violence is the result and immorality is the cause. Belcher was not a father he was a sperm donor. Sex without fatherhood nor responsiblity. Marriage is the anecdote and stable loving families are the only lasting happiness. Continued idiotic and fanatical devotion to sports will never fulfill the human need to be loved and nurtured. We are a nation of consumers, not a nation of character. Americans drink, but are still thirsty. They never taste the “living water” that satisfies their thirst and leads to real happiness.

  • Leslie

    what Joel answered I am amazed that a stay at home mom can earn $4783 in 1 month on the computer. did you read this page FAB33.COM

  • Leslie

    my friend’s ex-wife makes $75/hour on the computer. She has been laid off for eight months but last month her paycheck was $14328 just working on the computer for a few hours. Read more on this site FAB33.com

  • alpha-lemming

    Notably absent in Mr. Myers article, which must rate equal consideration with head trauma, is steroid use. I recall that was the prime suspect in the Chris Benoit case, and perhaps Junior Seau as well…. and don’t forget Lyle Alzado. Besides the known mood alterations, who’s to say steroids don’t make the brain more susceptable to permanent damage ala weakening… in addition to the increased velocity they bring to the games.

  • http://midcontent brand inspector

    The brain damaged idoits who need an evaluations, are the clowns who pay the millions to watch football or any sports game. If these shlubs whine about aches and problems get a real job, and keep government and taxpayers out of the games. Since most pro teams are a collection of felons, who shouldn’t have guns or drugs in their hands. End pro sports of any type and stop the damn whining about the owees.

  • waltinseattle

    the usual polarization trenches. the usual strawmen lies about the otherside. all liberals blah blah blah. the usual all gun nuts blah blah blah. no wonder a solution is difficult! no body wants to listen or admit common cause. petty fears rule the monkey brain in charge !

  • http://Yahoo Maynard Runkle

    As a generally liberal progressive I deny that all of us want to deprive people of guns. The auto kills and maims far more people and while I approve of gun ownership, I would like to see the number of autos restricted to autos that do not produce hydrocarbon pollution.
    Remember, the Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms, not drive cars. Guns do not kill people. Bullets do. (Except for the rare fatal pistol whipping). Motor vehicles are both active and silent killers, especially the ones that derive their energy from hydrocarbons. Please, join the crusade. End motor vehicle deaths, both violent and pollution related.

    • Jeff

      Of course, the difference is the auto is not intended to kill and it actually serves a useful purpose. I would like to see more mass transit and vehicles that pollute less, but that has nothing to do with this analogy. Anything that can be done to make cars safer should be done; the only thing that can make guns less deadly is restricting their power and capacity.

      • DaveH

        Guns are just inanimate objects which, by themselves, are harmless. It’s immoral people that make them dangerous. Just like voting, which is also harmless until it falls in the hands of immoral people. Like people who lust after other peoples’ money and will use whatever excuse we allow them to get away with taking it.
        The things to ask yourselves Folks is — Why do these Liberal Progressives ignore any information indicating that Gun Control is a failure? Why are they so quick to make innocent people defenseless against evil people? Why do they so easily accept that Guns are Evil, but then turn a Blind Eye to the overseas killings of their President? Why do they claim to concerned about child victims, but then advocate killing unborn children?
        There’s only one answer to that — They’re being disingenuous.

  • Deerinwater

    Another story about a man that did not need to own a gun.

    “Even if no weapon existed, the strength differential is so large that Belcher could have easily killed Perkins in any number of ways. The same is true, sadly, about suicide. There are so many ways that Belcher could have killed himself, including crashing his car at a high rate of speed into a wall or even another car as he drove to Arrowhead Stadium.”

    Yea, right ~ but he didn’t , he use a gun, it’s quick, easy and final.

    And for the record, people don’t die quick and easy just using your hands. A victim at least has a chance.

  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    COMMENTARY IN THIS THREAD HIGHLIGHTS THE FACT PEOPLE CONSIDER POLITICAL IDEOLOGY TO BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN PUBLIC DISPLAYS OF ENGLISH COMPREHENSION.

    Bob Costas’ COMMENTARY DURING HALFTIME WAS NOT DESIGNED TO LIMIT LEGAL GUN-OWNERSHIP. PERIOD.

  • wm mcdannold jr

    The NFL needs to admit to a rather important FACT. The athletes within the NFL who are committing firearms related crimes are black! I can’t recall any incidents of two-party firearms crimes involving NFL players that were otherwise. These players are committing firearms crimes within three primary categories:
    1. Attitudes among black men regarding ego and women
    2. Involvement in drug related matters
    3. Protection from other blacks

    • Jeff

      I would think, therefore, you would agree to the NFL instituting a “no-guns” policy for active players.

    • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

      “wm mcdannold jr,”

      I THINK YOUR POINTS ARE FURTHER DOWN THE LIST.

      NEGRO PROFESSIONAL-ATHLETES – LIKE, Jovan Belcher AND Rae Carruth – ARE COMMITTING THESE GUN CRIMES BECAUSE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE BEING “THROWN INTO THEIR LAPS,” WITHOUT AN INDIVIDUAL ABILITY TO MATURELY DEAL WITH THE ACCOMPANYING RESPONSIBILITY.

      AS CHILDREN, NEGRO MALES ARE TOLD SPORTS IS A “WAY-OUT.” BECAUSE OF NEGROES’ DESIRE FOR SOCIO-ECONOMIC SUCCESS, THESE MALES HAVE NO ONE IN THEIR ENVIRONMENT WHO WILL TELL THEM ATHLETICS IS NOT THE ANSWER. AS I HAVE STATED BEFORE, THE PROOF IS RETIRED NFL PLAYERS WHO ARE BANKRUPT AND HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS.

  • FreedomFighter

    Biggest democrat rat that is pushing gun control confiscation

    Dianne Feinstein has/had a concealed weapons permit

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1EObqM9Z0s

    2 faced liars in congress… following the UN and NWO dictate to disarm Americans…slaves cant own guns.

    I wonder how many of these football types have weapons?

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Nice work, DaveH! You completely destroyed your detractors with the precision and skill of a surgeon. I enjoyed your every rebuttal. No doubt Mr. Kinetic will be licking his wounds for a while. You sir, are a one man-army!!! Kudos!

  • bernie kartz

    It is beyond comprehension that anyone would consider guns themselves to be the problem. As pointed out in the article, NFL players, other athletes, and many men can kill without notice by many means: strangulation, one good punch (think of Harry Houdini), grabbing a kitchen knife, ad infinitum. In many instances the same could be true of women.

    Regarding mass murder, building a homemade flame thrower is not rocket science, or simply get into the nearest school with a gallon of gasoline and stick matches in a brief case. How about a spray can of engine starting fluid and a cigarette lighter? That’s faster. Ah, immolation could be so satisfying to one with mental disturbances.

    No one outside of the military needs an automatic weapon. Self-protection weapons are another matter, with meaningful background checks and a psychological interview with the applicant. Hand guns should be allowed for self protection with the foregoing precautions. A long gun, particularly if disassembled is of little use for self protection in one’s home and are of no use elsewhere.

    With severe controls or confiscation of guns, we are on the road to being helpless from the same power grabs and slow but persistent takeover as we have seen in Communism, Naziism, and other venues. In the cited instances, misguided and self-serving governmental control (or simply losing your belongings at the point of an illegal gun) took place slowly enough that most people “adjusted” to the environment at hand.

    From all indications, we have passed the tipping point regarding a transition into Socialism and governmental control in virtually all walks of life. I shudder to think of possible or probable progression from this point onward, and how our children and the following generation will cope.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Want to stop the violence? Here is the answer:

    Thanks to Watcher Tom for this list!

    Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

    Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

    Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

    Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

    Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

    Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

    Jarred Viktor, age 15, stabbed his grandmother 61 times after 5 days on Paxil.

    Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

    Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

    A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

    Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

    A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

    Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

    TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

    Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

    James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

    Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

    Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

    Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

    Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

    Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

    Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

    Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

    Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

    Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

    Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

    Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)

    Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,

    (Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)

    Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

    Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

    Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

    Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

    A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

    Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

    Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

    Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

    Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

    Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

    Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
    New York high school.

    Perhaps rather than gun-control, we should be looking closer to instituting pharma-control?

    _______

    • Jeff

      Why not both?

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Because, the pattern always seems to be PHARMA-drugs in conjunction with mass-murder and suicides. Doesn’t take a genius to make the connection, or to recognize the true culprit!

        Why is it that anti-gun proponents never discuss the obvious pharmaceutical-factor???

        • Jeff

          But many psychiatrists will say that for every person made violent by these drugs, 1,000 are helped to lead normal lives. Perhaps there are people on these medications who shouldn’t be, but psychiatry is much more of an art than are other types of medicine. There is no blood test to tell the doctor how much medication will help and how much will hurt. It’s not only trial and error but a moving target, particularly with a young person who changes physically and physiologically rather quickly.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        jeff: But many psychiatrists will say that for every person made violent by these drugs, 1,000 are helped to lead normal lives.

        Does your argument for the continued use of psychotropic-drugs not parallel with the argument with regards to firearms ownership? For the same could be said in defence of firearms. “For every person made violent by owning firearms, 1000′s are helped to lead “safe” lives”!

        • Jeff

          That analogy might stand up but for two facts. First, the person made violent by Prozac can’t hurt many people if he’s unarmed. Second, your numbers on the gun issue are way, way off. If you have a gun in the house, it’s much more likely to result in tragedy than to be used in legitimate self defense.

          http://www.bradycampaign.org/studies/view/104/

      • Right Brain Thinker

        WTS/JAY refuses to give up this trail he’s sniffing along in vain. “the pattern ALWAYS seems to be….? Sorry, Jay, there’s probably way more of a discernable “pattern” involving alcohol and testosterone. Doesn’t take a genius to see that. So let’s deal with the true culprits and bring back prohibition and start castrating all the males.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Matt said: December 17, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    Over 13 people shot in Chicago this weekend, 15 last weekend. You cannot carry a gun in Chicago. You cannot have a concealed weapons permit in Illinois.

    So how is gun control working out for the people in Chicago?

    As always, guns are not the issue. People are. New york and Chicago have some of the toughest gun laws. Look at the murder rate in those states.

    Texas has probably the easiest gun laws and they have much less of these kind of shootings. A disarmed society is a society in bondage to a corrupt government; some nations are living proof.

    Swiss citizens all own guns, and are trained in their use. Result? No wars, and a low crime rate. I rest my case.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Ah, Jay—-I hope you wear gloves when you cherry pick and distort your statistics like this—-otherwise your fingers must be getting awful red from the crushed up “cherries” you handle. Keep the gloves on so you don’t glue your fingers together when you then try to assemble the crushed cherries into some kind of argument—-you’ll need a lot of glue. for that.

      You say, “Over 13 people shot in Chicago this weekend, 15 last weekend. You cannot carry a gun in Chicago. You cannot have a concealed weapons permit in Illinois. So how is gun control working out for the people in Chicago?”

      Duh, not too well “this weekend” apparently, or the weekend before. Just as air travel “isn’t working out for some people” on the days that planes that crash. Good propaganda but bad logic. But that’s what you’re counting on people missing, isn’t it?

      You also say, “Texas has probably the easiest gun laws and they have much less of these kind of shootings. New york and Chicago have some of the toughest gun laws. Look at the murder rate in those states”.

      OK, let’s do exactly that rather than accept your casual assertion/implication that tough gun laws don’t help.

      First, let’s look at the two “worst” states, MS and AZ, with gun death rates above 15 per 100K. They rank #4 and #1 in the “permissiveness” of their gun laws.

      Then, let’s look at TX and VA, with identical gun death rates of 10.7 per 100K. They rank #23 and #28 on the “worst to best” list and #32 and #35 on the “permissive” laws list. Kind of in the middle rather than TX having “PROBABLY the easiest gun laws” as you blithely state. TX ranks 30+ states “tighter” than the “easiest” and only 18 below the “toughest”. And “much less of these kinds of shootings” is a statement that is meaningless unless you define what “these kinds” means.

      Finally, let’s look at NY and NJ, with gun death rates of 5.1 and 5.2 per 100K. They rank #45 and #46 on the worst to best list (not far from the very best), and #43 and #49 on the permissive laws list.

      And IL, home state of Chicago? It is #43 on the worst to best list, right in there with NY and NJ, has 8 gun deaths per 100K, putting it right between NY and NJ, and ranks #45 on permissiveness, again close to NY and NJ.

      Finally, you say, “A disarmed society is a society in bondage to a corrupt government; some nations are living proof. Swiss citizens all own guns, and are trained in their use. Result? No wars, and a low crime rate. I rest my case”.

      Guess what, Jay. It is NOT TRUE that ALL Swiss citizens own guns—-you are badly distorting the truth there. Switzerland actually has the second highest rate of gun ownership in the world after the United States and has THE SECOND HIGHEST GUN DEATH RATE in the world after the U.S. as well. And “no wars” is a result of what? You can’t “rest your case”, Jay, because you haven’t made one—-Switzerland proves NOTHING of what you imply throughout this propaganda screed.

      All that being said, the statistics don’t always point us to the whole truth. I agree with you 100% when you say “As always, guns are not the issue. People are”. I wish you would spend your time focusing on that rather than propagandizing and clouding the issue.

      I noticed that DaveH has arrived on the thread to destroy the discussion. Also noticed that he is playing the same game as you did here with some of his statistics. It’s always an exercise in futility to try to talk to him and I have things to do so maybe I’ll let him slide. But not you—-you are infinitely more intelligent than Dave—-stop playing with us with postings like this one—-you know better, DaveH doesn’t.

      • http://yahoo Robert

        I’d like to look up those stats? where did you find them. I’ve read contrary for years. been to most of those states an the people there are in agreeance with the opposite of those stats. do they take into consideration of deaths accured in selfdefense, suicide, accidental, etc..? numbers are meaningless without specifics, I know from experience people can and will twist facts, words, anything to fit there agenda. Your stance is just that typically. not gonne suedmost people with stats or anything. It’s usually in thier minds and hearts how theywill feel. It’s my rights, and I will die defending them. all of them. Government trying to takeany of them will be bad. Every one knows ” you give an inch, they take a mile” Can’t budge on any of our rights or they become previlages. Far to many died fightinf to get these rights, and far too many died protecting them, and those who have died teaching and empowering other countries to do the same for themselves and there deaths. seems to me they would suffer the great unjust. That doesn’t sit well with me. Indepenence is our freedom.

  • http://cunnanm@gmail.com cunnanm

    I bought an AR gun this Spring. Never owned a gun until this year! I don’t plan to kill any people! I got it because I wanted to. It’s a new hobby that I wanted to try to help protect the 2nd Amendment! I even joined the NRA. My family is now safe. We had nothing, but a kitchen knife to protect our house until this! It’s now trigger locked and only I know where the keys are! We still feel safe. I don’t hunt and the only thing I shoot at are targets or aluminum cans! I’ve killed alot of those cans! It’s truly fun! I’m alone by myself! I have 30 round magazines, but personally I feel safer loading them with lesser ammo! I usually hit the can in a couple shots! It is placed in the recycle bin and not in my get my 5 cent get it back bin! Why am I the target of new gun laws? I have a 12 gauge shot gun that is way too big to handle for my body. It has a wicked kick! I have not killed a single living thing with my assault weapon! No rodents or birds! Nothing living! My rights? Guess they don’t matter when a crazy makes his!

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Fast and Furious allowed weapons from the U.S. to pass into the hands of suspected gun smugglers so the arms could be traced to the higher echelons of Mexican drug cartels. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which ran the operation, has lost track of hundreds of firearms, many of which have been linked to crimes, including the fatal shooting of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry in December 2010.

    The first of 20 individuals indicted in 2011 on charges of buying high-powered firearms in Arizona to be used by Mexican drug gangs was sentenced Monday in San Diego federal court to 57 months in prison. Danny Cruz Morones, 24, of Phoenix is the first of the so-called Fast and Furious defendants to be sentenced. He pleaded guilty to acting as a “straw purchaser”of weapons, including AK-47 assault rifles, and to recruiting others to buy the weapons.

    High-powered assault weapons illegally purchased under the ATF’s Fast and Furious program in Phoenix ended up in a home belonging to the purported top Sinaloa cartel enforcer in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, whose organization was terrorizing that city with the worst violence in the Mexican drug wars.

    In all, 100 assault weapons acquired under Fast and Furious were transported 350 miles from Phoenix to El Paso, making that West Texas city a central hub for gun traffickers. Forty of the weapons made it across the border and into the arsenal of Jose Antonio Torres Marrufo, a feared cartel leader in Ciudad Juarez, according to federal court records and trace documents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    The smugglers’ tactics — quickly moving the weapons far from ATF agents in southern Arizona, where it had been assumed they would circulate — vividly demonstrate that what had been viewed as a local problem was much larger. Six other Fast and Furious guns destined for El Paso were recovered in Columbus, N.M.

    How will we ever succeed in keeping assault-rifles out of the hands of criminals, when the very same people who demand they be banned, are the very same that make them readily available to the criminal element? Do you honestly think that our crooked and two-faced politicians have our best interest in mind? And just to make matters worse, in their desperate attempt to absolve themselves, the “political-ghouls” are now engaging on an all out assault on the “rights” of law-abiding and innocent American gun-owners to own and carry! The problem, is not guns/assault-rifles, necessarily. The problem, is that this country is ruled by criminal-politicians who are clearly INSANE!!!

    • http://yahoo Robert

      I still don’t understand the logic behind smuggeling guns into cartel hands how does that help find anything?you sold it to them then find it at the dead bodies with no suspects? huh? sound more like government trying to promote more violence to advocate more control.

      • Jeff

        ATF has been a rudderless agency for at least 6 years because Senate Republicans will not allow ANYONE to be confirmed as Director. The McConnell Rule of 60, you know.

        • http://yahoo Robert

          without a director? some onehas to be calling the shots? this is how the gonermment does it with out haveing to take responsibility? no one is guilty so they just keep thier li opperations going? they should go back to focusing on alcohol and tobacco. Those are previlages, guns are our rights. no need to regulate there in my opinion.

          • Jeff

            Then why are the words “well-regulated” right in the Amendment?

  • ibcamn

    did anybody find out if these guy’s might of had any type of steroid’s in them at the time any of this happened?i mean,between the stress of football season and drugs,anything could happen..doesn’t the NFL have a shrink on hand for the players to contact at any time for help with that?just saying.i havn’t heard on drug test result’s or anything yet,so maybe some people just can’t deal with it!mental health issues seem to be at the bottom of the list when it comes to getting major players to sign(or any player)remember,people kill people!(well, and nature)

  • g

    Some of those writing here should join Jesse Ventura on “Conspiracy Theories”. Please stop the blame game. Stop blaming pro-gun, anti-gun, numerous sporting events, drugs, etc. If I get this right what we are all trying to figure out is the “why”? Of course, being who we are we are also accustomed to instant solutions or someone taunting the holy grail answer. Through history it has been proven that if you take a weapon away another shall appear out of necessity for defense and survival. While the involvement of repeated head trauma MAY have contributed to some of the events mentioned, the gun is not the problem. It is the human involved. They made a decision- based on what is the debate but leave the gun alone. Statistics show that the more a civilization is empowered to take control of their defense, the lower the overall crime rate. Don’t believe me then check out the stats the FBI compiles every year.

    Besides the shooter, where were the people who were empowered to protect them- the Sandy Hook School shooting for example. Where were the police? How about the adults in the school? No excuses accepted. Have we become so self-consumed that we are unwilling to lay it on the line to prevent this sort of disaster? One thing I have noticed is a general decline in society of respect for each other. This must change.

    Also, if members of society are going to be possessing/carrying then I believe continuing education/practice is necessary. The biggest skill that needs to be taught and practiced is situational awareness. That and respecting others. It starts there. The weapon is not to blame because the weapon could be anything- including a pencil. In medicine, the goal is to treat the cause not the symptoms. If we are going to start treating symptoms then we need to outlaw automobiles because they cause more deaths. So have motorcycles. Of course then you have knives, hammers, baseball bats, golf clubs, screwdrivers, and the list goes on. The common theme in all of this is humans.

    Just some food for thought- compare this debate with nuclear weapons. If there is just one out there then everyone wants one just in case. The difference is knowing that if you press the button there will be immediate retaliation and devastation. Check out Florida. The story of the 83 y/o man who shot at two men who were attempting to rob a business and the patrons. He did hit one of them and both of the scumbags ran off but were captured later. Would that qualify as terrorism?

    • Jeff

      “The weapon is not to blame because the weapon could be anything- including a pencil”

      Gordon Liddy:

      Yes, if someone is intent on killing a particular person, there are many ways to do it. In that case, the gun is probably irrelevant. But it is not irrelevant in a mass shooting. There is no other weapon that can accomplish the end result – mass casualties (including suicide) so easily. One could use a bomb, but that takes a lot more planning than simply firing off 60 or 100 rounds in a minute.

      And a gun in the house means you are at least 3 times as likely to be a victim of homicide. Every domestic quarrel has the potential to turn deadly. We’re not talking about someone plotting the death of a spouse for months; it’s an instantaneous reaction during an argument. The gun is there, it gets used, instant tragedy and regret. Could a football player kill his girlfriend without a gun? Of course. He could run her over in his car, but even that requires more reflection than the millisecond it takes to shoot someone.

  • Liberterian

    Naivety is common among human beings, blame the gun for the human brains malfunction is not the right way to do anything, except when it comes to the thinking of liberals whom always seek more regulation and laws that effect nothing but make matters worse. But, then the plan has long existed to try to curve gun ownership in this country and weaken the 2nd Amendment. As much as liberals don’t want to hear it, if some of the teachers were trained and armed in these schools, these poor children and teachers would have a fighting chance. It is not the perfect solution, or the best one, but it can stop the needless killing of so many more. Connecticut is 5th in the nation in strict gun laws which would not and could not have prevented this particular tragedy.

    • Jeff

      I won’t belabor the numerous errors in your post. Suffice it to say if you want to be taken seriously, try to use the right words and not perform an Archie Bunker impersonation.

      You can downplay the importance of the gun, particularly military-style weapons, but try shooting 20, 30, 40, or 60 people in 1 minute with a six-shooter, a bow and arrow, or a slingshot. It is the height of naivete to believe that Adam Lanza or any of the other shooters could have produced the carnage they did without easy access to semi-automatic, military-style weapons. Lanza’s mother bought those guns legally. It could not be easier.

      I hope and believe your leader, Wayne LaPierre, may have just given his resignation speech. It is hard to see how the NRA can maintain its standing with that clown t its head. But I’ve frequently underestimated the stupidity of gun nuts. Maybe he’ll continue as the head of that most noxious organization. Gun nuts want military-style weapons because they want them. They serve no purpose other than mass killing. Keep them around and we will continue to experience these mass shootings multiple times each year. The choice is that simple.

  • Jon

    A few days back, a Dallas Cowboy was killed by a teammate using a vehicle. I think Congress ought to immediately recall and ban all Ford pickups to prevent this heinous crime from being repeated.

    • Jeff

      If Congress had a few more brain dead idiots who reason like you do, they probably would. Are we really talking about an isolated event? No. Are we talking about an accident? No. So, how are they similar? Like the fire and the fire fly.

  • lordofwars


    A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.
    From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend
    themselves, were rounded up and exterminated

    In 1911, Turkey established gun control.
    From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves,
    were rounded up and exterminated.

    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total
    of 6 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
    rounded up and exterminated.

    China established gun control in 1935.
    From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend
    themselves were rounded up and exterminated

    Guatemala established gun control in 1964.
    From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves,
    were rounded up and exterminated.

    Uganda established gun control in 1970.
    From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves,
    were rounded up and exterminated.

    Cambodia established gun control in 1956.
    From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend
    themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
    because of gun control: 56 million.

    You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
    disseminating this information.
    Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
    gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

    The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them
    of this history lesson.
    With guns, we are ‘citizens’. Without them, we are ‘subjects’.
    During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they
    knew most Americans were ARMED!

    SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
    SWITZERLAND’S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
    SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED
    COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

    DON’T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT
    TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
    Spread the word everywhere you can that you are a firm believer in the
    2nd Amendment!

  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    THIS MORNING, I WATCHED National Rifle Association’s RESPONSE TO THE CONNECTICUT TRAGEDY ON, C-SPAN. Wayne LaPierre [NRA Executive Vice President/CEO] AND Asa Hutchinson [Former "Drug Czar"/U. S. Representative (R-AR)] SEEM TO THINK HAVING ARMED GUARDS IN EVERY AMERICAN SCHOOL WILL PREVENT FUTURE SCHOOL TRAGEDIES.

    AS A NEGRO MALE – I MUST SAY – WHEN A NEGRO MALE [OF ANY AGE] SEES A LAW-ENFORCEMENT OFFICER [WITH A GUN], MENTAL FOCUS IS “LASER-INTENSIVE” ON THAT GUN. THEREFORE, IN INNER-CITY SCHOOLS, ARMED SECURITY WOULD HAVE A DEVASTATING IMPACT ON LEARNING.

    SINCE NEWTON IS A SMALL CAUCASIAN TOWN, PARENTS CAN EASILY VIEW ARMED SECURITY AS PROTECTORS FOR THEIR CHILDREN. IN “COLORED” COMMUNITIES, PARENTS WOULD VIEW ARMED SCHOOL-SECURITY AS CATALYSTS FOR INCREASING THE JUVENILLE COURT- AND DETENTION POPULATION.

    ALTHOUGH OF GOOD INTENTION, U. S. Rep. Hutchinson’s AND Mr. LaPierre’s MISTAKE IS TRYING TO HAVE A “ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL,” FOR SMALL SCHOOL-DISTRICTS IN SMALL CAUCASIAN-TOWNS AND LARGE SCHOOL-DISTRICTS IN LARGE “COLORED-” CITIES.

    AFTER NRA’s RESPONSE, A NEWLY-FORMED DEMOCRATIC COALITION PROVIDED A COUNTER-RESPONSE. Senators Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) AND Blumenthal (D-CT) PLACED EMPHASIS ON THE INADEQUATE RESPONSE OF ARMED SCHOOL-SECURITY DURING THE Columbine Tragedy. Senator Feinstein MADE A VALID POINT.

    ARMED SECURITY IN SCHOOLS IS NOT THE ANSWER. PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT RACES RESPOND TO PEOPLE CARRYING GUNS, DIFFERENTLY.

    • http://yahoo Robert

      Christopher, That is a very good observation. I never woulv’e pu tit together like that or had any kind of veiw if you had not posted Thank you. I still think if teachers are willing to lay their lives in front of their students they would be doing them a much greater just, if they’d learn to defensively shoot and arm thenselves with a conceald weapon. I too can agree as a white male, that an armed gaurd or any form of policing may interfere with their focus. maybe if he/she doubles as the custodian in disguise? Tho maybe some schools need a constant police there to keep them focused on studies instead of dope an latest trends. funny how so many people see school as a social place rather than a place of study?

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Robert,”

        THANKS FOR REPLY. BUT, I DISAGREE.

        IF TEACHERS HAD CONCEALED CARRY, THAT WOULD COMPOUND AN EXISTING PROBLEM. CURRENTLY, PARENTS AND SCHOOL-DISTRICTS BLAME THE SO-CALLED ACADEMIC INCOMPETENCE OF TEACHERS FOR LOW STUDENT-PERFORMANCE.

        YET, UNIVERSITIES SAY A 2.5 GPA [A, "C-" AVERAGE] IS THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT FOR AN EDUCATION DEGREE. AS PART OF THAT EDUCATION CURRICULUM, PROSPECTIVE TEACHERS TAKE COURSES IN “Abnormal Psychology” AND “Child Psychology.” BUT, THESE COURSES ARE BASED ON THE BEHAVIORAL PATTERNS OF CAUCASIAN CHILDREN – i.e. “Little Johnny sitting in the desk behind Little Suzy and pulling her ponytail.” ON THE OTHER HAND, THESE UNIVERSITY COURSES IN PSYCHOLOGY DO NOT PREPARE PROSPECTIVE TEACHERS FOR DEALING WITH NEGRO MALES WHO ENTER PUBERTY AT AGE SEVEN OR EIGHT, HAVE A GUN OR KNIFE IN THEIR BACK-PACK AND CALL PRINCIPALS/TEACHERS AN ASSORTMENT OF “MF-BOMBS.”

        SO. “Robert,” IF CONCEALED CARRY IS ADDED “TO THE MIX,” TEACHERS WILL BE “SETTING THEMSELVES UP,” FOR LAWSUITS FROM “MONEY-HUNGRY COLORED PARENTS” WHO WILL CAPITALIZE ON THE POLITICS OF THE ISSUE.

        • http://yahoo Robert

          Hello Christopher, Thonk you prove a valid point. I went to school with a diverse crowd of ethnic oregines. Hispanic prodominately. I have a couple negro friends that are real friends and they are in between yours and my views. It must be the area and up bringing that bring these kinds of reactions you bring up. I probably wont ever completely understand them, but myfriends I spoke with agreed with you an I but leand more towards your points. We live in a little town in northern Ca. Much different from the Bay area or so. Cal.but they as well as I where born and raised in the iner cities of the bay area and it must be our love for the mountains that keeps us here and with our values, because even tho we don’t have much up here, we wouldn’t trade it for anything. Thank you for your views. they’ve helped me queite a bit. Happy holidays and god bless to you and your family.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        THANK YOU, “Robert” – YULETIDE GREETINGS TO YOU AND YOURS.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rmmoon1 Robert M Moon

    Unfortunately all of the comparisons with Europe or Russia don’t mean squat. It’s impossible to take just gun statistics and compare us to other Nations which aren’t similar in size and against Nations that don’t enjoy the freedom we enjoy. Sadly our freedom comes with responsibilities, so we must decide if they’re worth putting up with for that freedom. The other reason it’s impossible to compare the US with other Nations is that the murder rate is much more complicated than just guns. The United States is a fairly violent society with or without guns. We’re covered in violence on television, at the Movies, and Video Games are extremely violent, they show shootings, bombings, slashing, chopping people up, everything we can imagine. Anytime we immerse our children in these activities 10 hours + per day, its going to have a negative effect. We no longer teach morals anymore either. Sure If there weren’t any guns (which is impossible) it would be more difficult to commit mass murders but there would still be a high murder rate due to what is being shown to kids. Making any one factor illegal won’t solve the problem and it just makes us less free.
    I guess our only option is a compromise of the various factors. I know gun supporters are against any type of restrictions because of the slippery slope theory. I’m a big Second Amendment advocate myself but I have to be realistic in that we’re not walking away without giving up something but neither is anyone else. Making so-called assault weapons illegal is a reasonable action. Eventhough its only different in looks, it does and can make someone feel tougher than just a semi-auto rifle. Also a limit on clip sizes down to 12 rounds would be okay by me. You don’t need 30 rounds unless you’re fighting a war. In addition we need to start allowing some prayers back in school. The Constitution doesn’t say Freedom from Religion, it says Freedom of Religion, so kids should be able to say their prayers and those who don’t believe can just sit lay their heads down. We also need to teach right from wrong in school we dono’t need to explain homosexuality to Elementary kids. Kids go to school to learn about reading, writing and arithmetic, subjects that will help them earn a living and keep them off the government dole.

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