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The Morality of Paper Money

December 14, 2009 by  

The Morality of Paper Money

Government printing press money distorts economic reality and dilutes morality. Financial speculation rises with the increase in paper money and the general work ethic deteriorates. The something-for-nothing mentality pervades society.

Paper money promotes the “quick buck” syndrome like narcotics peddling and hookers on the streets. Hookers, incidentally, were widespread in the Weimar Republic in Germany in 1923 because the women had to sell their bodies for food for themselves and their families. The social order visibly deteriorates. The morality of the stable gold standard gradually changes to the amorality of fiat. Few people see the cause and effect and the politicians try to legislate human behavior. They always fail as the system is overrun with jails and prisons.

Fiat promotes an illusory reality where non-substance such as financial speculation and gambling replaces the substance of industrial production and long-term value.

When consumption surpasses income, as the government and the politicians promote, distorted human emotions replace stable behavior. Social breakdown increases and real values are forgotten.

Prices of labor and craftsmen escalate beyond all reason when there is never enough money. Service repairmen charge like medical doctors.

When labor and supplies are valued in fiat, everything becomes distorted. In the final stages of hyperinflation there is no anchor to sanity and common sense.

Paper money expands consumption way beyond income. This eventually guarantees debt collapse and social breakdown. The foundation of the household collapses and the middle class is destroyed. Paper money is an illusion because it is non-substance and can be created by the government to infinity. When the people accept numbers on green strips of paper or computer symbols for money, they accept illusion for reality. They accept non-substance for substance. Real money (gold and silver) comes from the earth and human production. It is no illusion.

Future generations are cheated out of life because working mothers give up newborns for fiat paper money. They unwittingly exchange new life for paper money, and more paper money and consumption. This is what the system promotes.

What Comes Next?

I believe that I can assure you that three years from now the dollar purchasing parity will be about 30 cents as compared to the present. I don’t know why it is not obvious to people who have dollar savings.

There are many controls coming. As paper currencies come to their end, governments greatly step up suppression of the people. They start foreign wars. They attack their own population with high-sounding hypocrisy. Government makes criminals out of honest men—“in the public interest,” of course.

What then?

Default of the United States? Not formally but by stealth, depreciation of the currency (inflation). Will the U.S. world system hold? Yes, as long as world fear factor dominates as a result of superior military power.

Much press about vast U.S. debt? Yes, but sober people understand monetary realism, to wit, that fiat implies stealth (slow) default. No payment is ever intended and impossible even if intended. The main feature or attribute of sovereign debt default is gradualism. The public cannot grasp gradualism even as they are impoverished. The debt propaganda is a cover for the fiat regime. It’s a hoax!

Scarcity of gold? Already evident.

New taxes? A value-added tax (VAT) as in Europe, income tax increases on the American “rich,” currency controls, strict rules on cash transfers and withdrawals, more reporting requirements on asset wealth. These are some of the controls alluded to earlier.

The system will try to defeat all attempts by individuals (and collectively) to protect their savings and personal security.

Destruction of the middle class? It’s already begun. It is impoverishment through currency depreciation and class warfare between the perceived haves and have nots, i.e. the politics of envy. A huge percentage of population will be pushed below the poverty line.

Savings and pension fund assets? They will be forced conversion into treasury bonds. There is plenty of precedence for this, Argentina being the most recent example.

Martial law? Yes, at some point.

Will confidence deteriorate in the banking system? Yes, by stealth (quietly) resulting in restrictions of withdrawals and frozen bank accounts.

Price of gold? When all is said and done it will be measured in U.S. dollars to about $4,000, then in Swiss francs because of the nebulousness (no meaning) of the U.S. dollar.

First Rule of Government—control its own people. America is occupied by government.

Possible good news? The current economic depression will extend the system (via nationalization) and the precious metals market and gold stocks. I foresee inflationary prosperity for a while with massive infrastructure rebuilding. If so, get your house in order for the final deluge. Do all the things you know to do such as long-term food storage. Inflationary collapse creates shortages of everything.

The stock market turns up before the economy. Sentiment is black, getting close to time to buy stocks. Never stop buying gold!

Don’t wait for exchange (currency) controls to transfer some funds into Swiss francs via Swiss annuities.

Take delivery of all your stock certificates. Soon you will not be able to. This cuts brokers out and takes your stocks out of the system. They will tell you anything to stop you. They will not tell you that they loan your stocks out for shorting and make income on them. Also they fear the loss of re-sales when you decide to sell, perhaps through another broker. They get directions from above to stop the delivery of stocks. Don’t be dissuaded!

My friends, the “change” promised by politicians should remind us that some power, both political and economic, is built upon destructive forces. We have reminded you many times of the destruction of the middle class in the U.S. now going on.

When a segment of the population becomes impoverished they clamor for “change.” This is exactly what happened to bring about the rise of Adolph Hitler. The German population was largely impoverished as a result of depreciating paper currency. No U.S. politician would dare mention depreciating paper money, as Hitler did not. He had his own paper mark.

The destructive forces in America are in full appearance for the few who can see. But for the majority, they are blind to the biggest and greatest transfer of wealth in the history of the world. Yes, there is change for exactly the same reason as the destructive change that gave rise to Hitler.

Inflation they call it, but it is really depreciating currency in all forms. And depreciating currency is the system used to transfer wealth from the savers and producers to the money creators.

In the early phase of paper currency the people go to work and accumulate wealth. In the final stage of the speedup of depreciating currency, wealth and savings is returned to the source, i.e., the money creators. And all appears to be natural economic forces. There is no bloodshed.

Yes, the people can be economic slaves without chains, without the rack or the thumbscrew, but with depreciating paper money. Alchemy is a reality. Non-substance (depreciating currency) is used to steal substance.

“Whoever controls the volume of (paper) money is the master of all industry and commerce,” said President James A. Garfield.

People who understand depreciating currency will do as necessary to survive and maybe prosper under the nose of despotism.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Normal Guy

    Well Bob,

    You are deep in a fantasy world of fear and conspiracies. First all currency, gold, silver, copper has only the value that is assigned to it, this much gold for this much barley etc. The only commodities that are not “fiat” are food, shelter clothing – real things that can be used or consumed.

    The ridiculous hypothesis that backing all currency with hard commodities creates a stable, moral society is simplistic at best and delusional at worst. Throughout history there are hundreds of recorded instances of bank/nations becoming insolvent when social conditions create runs on banks. Even in stricty commodity backed periods, wars etc were financed by creating monetary options.

    Problems with your hard commodity world is that it must be accessible and in reality has no value if there are no options to trade it for other goods or services. It is an assured way of restricting growth, and triggering periodic runs on banks. An economy with zero leverage, where no assets have value without the backing of a specific commodity, (say gold) has no advantage and lots of negatives.

    The most obvious being the desire to hoard the asset, and the natural deflationary pressures created by fixed assets, don’t spend or invest as the values of goods will decline with economic growth. Better to never invest in anything as it will be cheaper tomorrow – and the lack of liquidity means that obtaining credit to finance growth is a problem.
    Inflation at a creeping level is not a destructive force, it certainly does not destroy the moral fibre of a nation, people that deny the potential and the basic decency of the American people do that.

    In regard to the inflation that we can expect as a result of the debacle that trickledown economics has unleashed, the increase in the debt from 1 trillion to four trillion under Reagan and then from six trillion to eleven trillion under W, with the legacy of a global economy on the edge of a global collapse (thanks to Greenspan and his ill conceived economic theory, courtesy of Ayn Rand and the misconceived concept of the free hand in markets) well this inflation is going to be harder.

    The exporting of US debt globally as a result of dollar devaluation, the reduction in the current account deficit and the high unemployment should negate the impact somewhat. Still monetizing the debt will reduce the magnitude of this disaster and the growth in Asia and Brazil will also help to generate growth. Anyways the sky is not falling, it is going to be rough but there are lots of good things happening especially with technology, communications and the need for renewable energy, if people get focused on the potentials of the new economy there is no need to go all survival and hide in a cave.

    • Charles

      I am in my 70s and I can assure Normal Guy that we have never had anything close to free markets in my lifetime here in the USA. The norm has been taxation, import-export controls, farm production quotas, excise taxes, taxes (mostly hidden) on just about everything in commerce, politicians giving special benefits to politically favored segments of the economy, etc. With the system of subsidies, regulations, taxes, manipulation of the currency, and directing resources towards the politically favored, our economy has resembled that of the Italian fascists under Mussolini when I was young than it does a free market or a free economy.

      • s c

        Thank you, Charles, for that wonderful breath of fresh air. You and I know that ultraliberal progressives willingly suffer from delusional fatasies. Such people who sell themselves for political lies disguised as “genius” will have to re-learn history (WWII Germany and Japan-style).
        To live that way by accident is bad enough. To be that way by choice says much about an individual.
        For many years, America has had much in common with the Titanic. We are truly in dangerous waters, and yet we have people in America who demand that we sail even faster (throw away those lifeboats, they’ll only slow us down).
        Charles, you have the advantage of age and experience. Utopian loonies have nothing but good intentions wrapped in social engineering schemes. If they took the time to place some bets in Las Vegas, they’d be confronted with odds that should tell them that fantasy is predictably self-destructive. If they want to learn the hard way, sobeit. But, when their crap hits the fan, let NO ONE – especially a certifiable utopian – demand to know WHY they weren’t WARNED.
        As the old saying goes, ‘you can lead ultraliberal, progressive utopians to reason, but you can’t make them THINK.’ Let them learn that CHOICE is a two-edged sword that demands a terrible price from all who abuse it.

      • denniso

        Normal guy is entirely correct. Every economist or educated person knows that money is only a medium of exchange,taking the place of simple barter. ‘Paper money dilutes morality’?? Wow!! Then we’ve had no morality for decades and neither has any other developed country. I wonder if morality is not affected any longer by things like greed,thievery,corruption,murder,environmental rape,senseless war,because now we know that the culprit is ‘paper money’???

        • DaveH

          Denniso,
          I would bet that Normal Guy would prefer that you not support him.
          At least Normal Guy usually makes carefully thought out comments with far fewer personal attacks, unlike your comments.

          • Normal Guy

            Dave H

            I have not read a lot of Denniso’s comments but it seems to me that his positions on this thread are generally quite well considered. It is you that is always on the attack and your skewed Libertarian viewpoint seems to blind you to any other position.

            Please stop the accusations framed in the “everyone who disagrees with me is attacking me” routine. Your comments are the most confrontational so you draw fire legitimately

          • DaveH

            Everybody on this board who isn’t a Liberal Zealot knows that I only attack those Liberal Zealots who use personal attacks in their comments. That includes you Normal Liberal. I realize that bereft of facts, your only recourse is personal attacks, but I still don’t excuse you.

      • Normal Guy

        Charles

        So you have lived in the USA for 70 plus years and the US economy has been the dominant economic power, the leading democracy, the light of freedom on the planet. Economic prosperity that is absolutely unprecedented. By 2000 we had a booming economy with a declining national debt and a future that looked unstoppable and your position is that because the US fell off a cliff under W that we should flush the system that put us in the leading position and in fact this system is the same as a fascist Italy circa 1935?

        Strange argument.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You are correct Charles. The government with their greedy hands in there to tax all they can and give a hands up to their cronies messes up the whole thing. They need to get out of the way, and things would work much better.

    • James

      Normal Guy, your statement that “currency, gold, silver, copper only has the value “assigned to it” is correct if, by that, you mean the free market does the assigning. For example a small cheese cake, that I purchase far too regularly, just went up in price from $5 to $6, while my income remained the same.
      That 20% increase in price resulted from the federal government’s flooding the economy with dollars that it borrowed from the federal reserve, then passed out to troubled banks, the unemployed, etc. Such unearned money does not stimulate the economy by increasing production of goods and services – as John Maynard Keynes insisted – it just settles down on those goods and services and raises their prices.
      For example, if the feds gave each of us a $1 million, could we all then retire? The purpose for a precious-metal backing of the dollar was to prevent the ruination of it – to prevent what is happening.

      • E

        An unspoilable real commodity (gold, silver, copper, platinum etc.), of value variable to demand, backing our currency, with a value that can never reduce to the level of printed paper whose lowest value could be that of kindling. The reason for the gold standard rather than the reserve. If everyone refused to believe the paper were worth anything, the fed could keep warm for a while, but that’s about all they could do with their reserve.

    • apple eater

      The Federal Reserve was created in the 30′s supposedly to give confidence to the banking system. In reality it was to give total control of the world’s banks/economies to the Illuminati/Bloomberg Group. It is a private corporation that printsthe money for all of the countris of the world and charges then interest on the money they print. They have already printed the money for the North American Union and have it place strategically around the world for the planned date of the collapse of the US dollar. The massive spending Obama is doing is part of the plan to totally ruin the US economy.

      The collapse of the real estate market, banks and major industies in the US have all been well orchestrated and planned for nearly 100 years. The families that are running the world economies are very careful and haven’t pushed for rapid change until now and they know Obama will only be able to serve one term so they have to push as hard as they can. He is dismantling the Consitution, Bill of Rights, economy, and killing jobs as fast as he can force it down the throats of the people even with the people being very vocal telling him they don’t want it because he has to answer to his handler or be revealed for what he is. He started investigating how to hide his Kenyan birth BEFORE he even won the Senate. Now I wonder why he would have done that if he had a US birth certificate???

      Inflation was kept under control until the 50′s (I am pretty sure of the time frame) when the USA went off the gold standard because they wanted to expand the amount of money in circulation. At that time inflation took off and we have seen rampant inflation and the destruction of the middle class really got started. We now have double digit inflation, more people unemployed and living in poverty than in the history of this country.

      We have seen the totally disregard for responsible government sky-rocket since Obama took office. I agree we have had spending bubbles that have taken place during Republican presidents during wars and this has always resulted in an expansion of the economy and increase in jobs. What we have never seen in the USA is the kind of fiscal irresponsibility the current administration has show. In less than 100 days from taking office he quadrupled the national debt that it had taken 250 years to create. If he manages to get his ObamaCare through we will see massive tax increases and drastic reduction in quality of health care and mandated euthanasia of the elderly, poor and people who have serious health problems. Even if you have the money to get the care, doctors will be forbidden to provide it.

      His planned forced unionization of workers will drive down the number of businesses and jobs and the unemployment with skyrocket to more than 30% recognized unemployment. The hidden unemployed currently is at least 20-30% and these are not taken into consideration at all in the published numbers. We all know there are lies, damn lies and government statistics. The published unemployment numbers are government statistics which they call “seasonally adjusted”. Stop and think about it, if you are one of the unemployed does it help if it is “seasonally adjusted”. You are just as much unemployed with or without the “adjustment” as you don’t have an income and that means you can’t buy food or provide housing for your loved ones.

      I can only assume you are a Democrat and believe everything that comes out the government spokesmen’s mouths. I truly feel sorry for you as Obama is running for president of the UN One World Government that is meeting in Copenhagen right now. The climate scam is a ruse to force the countries to agree to give up sovereignty and agree to a world government. Obama has no government experience and is nothing but a puppet for George Soros and the Illuminati/Bloomberg Group. Even though Obama was a Senator for 2 years he was in the Senate only 144 days in the 2 years or 6 days a month – that can not be considered experience. He has never worked in the real world as he is a clone from the ACLU and worked as a college professor. That hardly qualifies him to be a dog catcher let alone President of anything.

      You really need to do some research on Sorros and the two organizations as it should open your eyes to what is going on.

      • denniso

        Apple…i guess you know that the head of the fed is appointed by the president??

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Harpy.

      • Mrs.Mac.Teacher

        Thank you Apple Eater. I know very little about the Bilderberg group, but am concerned about Obama Administration’s embracing of a global alliance rather that a stance that would protect our nation, and our own people from global control. I am really fearful about the Democrats’ departure from our Constitution and its foundation that has protected our freedom since our beginning. We are indeed in danger. As a Christian, I have faith in a Sovereign God and His plan for his creation, and expect we are in for some really rough times before real peace and prosperity are on this earth. Pray for strength and especially for faith.

      • s c

        Apple Eater, I’d like to know where the Constitution says a prez has any legal authority to appoint the head of a private corporation. It was not in the original document. And, there is no implied power that would validate such a ‘convenient’ practice.
        Many utopian lug nuts think a prez can do anything at any time and for any reason. No doubt, this is how they look at the Constitution. And comrade obama, it seems, has plans to out-Nixon Richard M Nixon. He’s already out-Bushed George Bush.
        Now, if he’d just quit trying to out-Hitler Adolf Hitler.

        • James

          S C, good point, Americans think the U.S. Congress and the president can do whatever they, or the people, want because they have been led to believe that the United States is a Democracy. Article IV, Section 4 reads in part: “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of government.” Our problem is most Americans don’t know the difference.

          • Normal Guy

            James

            Your belief that we do not live in a democracy is a common error on these right wing sites. Of course the United States is a Republic. The word republic derives from the Latin res publica; res means “thing” or “affair,” and publica means “public,” as opposed to “private.” The word thus denotes government in which politics is a public affair and not the personal prerogative of a single ruler (the founding fathers were strongly opposed to monarchs). There have been aristocratic republics and oligarchic republics, but, as applied to the United States government, this term usually means a democratic republic, one in which elected representatives carry out the functions of government. The USA functions as “Constitutional Democracy” or a “Liberal Democracy”.

            The founding fathers understood that the rights of the non-majority after an election needed to be preserved that the elected government could not be given supreme power as the swings in the electorates desires shifted. They understood that the foundation of the nation required an anchor. This is why the constitution was written. This is why the Supreme Court has so much power and why it is such a brilliant idea. They are the guardians of the rule of law. They assure that constitutional rights must be upheld. The United States has been a tremendous success the founding fathers understood that a pure democracy could still lead to tyranny, a constitutional democracy protects its citizens rights even if they are not in the majority.

            Hamilton wrote that through the practice of judicial review the Court ensured that the will of the whole people, as expressed in their Constitution, would be supreme over the will of a legislature, whose statutes might express only the temporary will of part of the people. And Madison had written that constitutional interpretation must be left to the reasoned judgment of independent judges, rather than to the tumult and conflict of the political process. If every constitutional question were to be decided by public political bargaining, Madison argued, the Constitution would be reduced to a battleground of competing factions, political passion and partisan spirit.

      • Normal Guy

        So it is clear that like most on this thread you have no knowledge of history or how markets work beyond talking points thrown out by the Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh crew.

        First – The Fed was founded 1n 1913, not in the 1930’s, it was done because there was a severe economic downturn in 1907, triggered by that eras derivative scandal, the “bucket shops” that allowed for derivative sales on projected market moves etc. This unsecured speculative market in large part triggered the stock market crash of 1907. Laws were put in place to make this kind of unsecured unregulated sales of financial commodities illegal. The Fed and later bank regulation like Glass-Steagall (1933) forced financial institutions to have enough reserves to prevent bank runs from wiping out the funds to their depositors.

        Since that time the United States has experienced the most intense growth, the emergence of the largest middle class and the most powerful economy in the world. The conspiracy theorists have been harping about the collapse of America for a hundred years. They have always been wrong.

        In 2000 “The commodities Future Modernization Act” made it legal to sell un-backed derivatives again and the free hand of the market said if it is not illegal lets sell people what they want. When the real estate bubble collapsed (thank you Alan Greenspan for over stimulating the economy with low interest rates based on the self governing of market theories) all the derivatives that became payable based on the fall of the market could not be covered and we had a financial meltdown. The problem is “irrational exuberance” people are greedy and those that are unsophisticated join rallies late and use equity in core assets to join. When markets turn they lose big and equity in homes etc. decline so they find themselves insolvent. This kind of bubble is what we should be trying to avoid, regulation is required.

        In regard to you’re your illuminati and I think you meant Bilderberg not Bloomberg fantasies they are really just laughable and don’t deserve comment. Go to any debunking conspiracy sites and have a look then dig deeper yourself, these conspiracies are vacuous.

        Inflation is a part of capitalist business cycles – It is not the end of the world. Inflation cycles are closely related to large government spending.
        In the first world war 17% to 19% inflation 1940 – 47 was highs of 10 and 14% in 69 it moved up to 5.5 % and continued to rise peaking at 13.5% in 1980,
        The US was on the gold standard until 1971 when France demanded that the US pay them in gold rather than dollars and Nixon reneged on the obligation and removed the link. This is the move that triggered real inflation. Carter cranked interest rates and reduced oil consumption by about 40% which ultimately broke the inflationary cycle and allowed for the next problem to emerge with Reagan and the neophyte Neo-Cons. Trickle down economics that has lead to near record debt to GDP (check out this chart http://zfacts.com/p/318.html ). You will notice that after the second world war the US was in a significantly high debt position, it was not the end of everything, debt can be paid down it just requires time and responsible economic policies. Inflation actually monetizes debt and pays it down, the devaluation of the US dollar has also exported a huge part of the debt to all the countries hat hold US dollars in reserve for oil and trade.

        Anyhow you really need to learn something before you start spinning theories all your statements regarding economic events are incorrect. The conclusions you draw are ridiculous, just a bunch of fear based, reactionary garbage.

        • DaveH

          Yeah, “The conclusions you draw are ridiculous, just a bunch of fear based, reactionary garbage”. Yet the Liberal solutions did not prevent the Great Depression, and other smaller recessions in between, up to the current Boom and Bust. Each time the Government promises to fix things. Liberals always promise the next set of regulations will cure our problems, and then there are more problems.
          Just how far down the tubes do we have to descend before you all-knowing Liberals through in the towel? That was a rhetorical question. I know the answer is never.

          • DaveH

            If indeed these Government meddlings with the economy actually worked, we would never feel the need to replace them would we? People would be happy and content with their present Government. But we all know that isn’t true.

          • http://Batch Batch

            David H and Feedom Guy along with Apple eater are correct. Mormal guy is anything but normal. It is funny how dems alway want to have some one else pay for their meal. Revolution is already here, you just do not see it yet. When it becomes a full boil, the dems will ask the workers of industry to get them out of it. Protect me, Protect me. I would love to take all the money from all the libs and give it away to the poor in the US. Then let them live with them, guide them out of poverty with no political ties, lobiest, and so fouth. I would love to here them cry for the goverment to get them out of there. Why is it that it is always some one else money they want to spend. Amazing. Ayn Rand was correct in her book. Looters and mouchers are in town. They need us more but they do not want us to realize it. One question to normal guy, why does the media give obama a pass on 98% of all his past dealings and lack of any accomplishments in the senate. Amazing. I am sure they would give Bush that same pass right. If you want to be fair, you would loose, because you can not be us one on one. That is what make free markets work. Hard work. Profit is not evil, not making a profit is evil. You must be a relativism. In a world sick with relativism, even the obvious becomes obscure. Amen

          • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

            Good, Let’s see you instigate rebellion then… Come on tough guys, march in washington with your guns waving in the name of freedom of the health care industry from being held accountable.

            Keep defending the private hands that take without law, public representation or reason. This reminds me of the south and the stupidity and cockyness of their army at gettysburgh. And how the south actually thought that freeing the black man was immoral, and bothered wasting their time trying to make that point.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Im from the North, and always have been, until I retire and move to the south. But I hear bigots like you speak trash about the south all the time, and you really just have no clue of what you say. Being a realist, I think quite often about the possibilities if things had gone different ways in many confrontations, and I have to marvel at how much more successful the United States would be had the south won the war. For one, there wouldnt be any of this political correctness baloney. For two, there definately wouldnt be 2 million or more mad muslims running free in our streets. For three, our prisons would not be overflowing, because this lawlessness in the inner city wouldnt be tolerated because of political correctness. Men would be held accountable for what they do, not get a free pass because of the color of their skin because those in charge are afraid of being labeled, yet they are anyhow. Yeah, I wonder how much better off we would have been, and I believe the answer is much better.

          • LimestoneFreedom

            To DaveH:
            “As Government grows, corruption flows”.

            Dave… I have never heard it expressed so simply! This phrase should be plastered everywhere. It is exactly for this reason that our brilliant founders put in place the documents to prevent the government’s growth. The problem is that now our betrayers simply ignore the Constitution and do what the new world order puppet masters tell them to do!

            Thankfully, the majority of folks haven’t yet been brainwashed to the point of accepting the delusions that are expressed by a couple of ones posting here.

          • s c

            Bob, you should have called your article ‘The Immorality of Paper Money.’ Conservatives will notice the irony. Some people need to be re-educated. The rest never gave a d__n and never will.
            It’s the third group that needs to be enlightened with the baseball bat/mental sludge remover known as common sense.
            The first two groups haven’t been brainwashed. The third group is too busy adoring their gods {keynes, marx, ponzi and comrade obama}.

          • http://personalliberty jake

            For example….how many trillions have we spent on the war on poverty? LBJ’s great society has accomplished very little. If you don’t believe this, look at detroit or new orleans. Would you want to live there?

          • Normal Guy

            Dave H

            I certainly don’t think that there is some miracle that is going to remove all negative economic cycles. I do know that the depression occurred after the period from 1921 to 1933 where both the presidency and congress were dominated by Republicans (Presidents Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover).

            I do know that Reagan, Bush and Bush junior – drove debt from one to 11 trillion dollars and very nearly triggered a global depression. It seems to me that the republicans have ushered in both of the worst economic disasters in the last 100 years.

          • Joe H.

            Normal guy,
            And where is that debt compared to a year ago???? Where will it be in the next year if they pass O-man care???

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Your right Dave, they would never throw in the towel, they would just find a new person to point their fingers at and place blame. Today it is Bush, tomorrow, who knows, but they will never ever take blame for anything. That is the liberal way, its always someone elses fault, and I cant be held accountable for the things I do. Seems our societal issues going south have this same mentality, where no one is accountable for what they do, and its always someone elses fault. Thank the liberals for this mentality.

          • http://www.thelibertyjournal.com thelibertyjournal

            First time to your site and I’ll be back. I hope that “normal guy” isn’t still barfing up the site with attacks. Well,you gotta love free speech and he’s better than the “fairness doctrine”.

            Fiat does perpetuate immoral behaviour. Couple that with the immoral principles of fractional reserve and you have a multi-tentacled beast that will perpetually seek an unattended pocket to pick.

          • cr747

            normal guy you have got to be the most uneducated on history that I have ever seen. Where have you been all your life. Wake up and see where Obama has put us, and is going to put us in debt so far that we will never be able to see day light again.Go back and read what you are saying, and see if it makes any sense to you.

        • James

          Normal Guy, well said, but monetizing the debt is what causes inflation. China holds close to $1.5 Trillion of our debt in the form of Treasury Bills, at present they are converting sizeable amounts of that into gold. If they should convert those Bills into cash and spend it into our economy, it would inflate the dollar out of existence.

      • Larry Reid

        Federal Reserve was created in 1913 not 1930′s, otherwise good article.

        • American Citizen

          Normal Guy, I see you did take the opportunities this country offers to be successful. You also seem to enjoy the business you are in. Congratulations.
          Some people have wealth handed to them, but most of us have to work for a living. There are far too many people on the dole who are able to work. I’ve heard some of them say they can make more on welfare than they could if they got a job. I don’t know how they can look at themselves in the mirror.
          Onerous taxes take far too much out of paychecks. And you being a businessman should know that if you didn’t have to be so in debt to the government you could pay your people even better wages or a bonus or even hire more people. I’m glad to see you have the integrity and moral sense to pay your people well. Many businesses find out if they want to keep good workers, they have to pay well. We have a daughter who is an assistant administrator in a nursing home. they have a problem keeping good Aides as the jobs don’t pay what those people are really worth. Yet, they pay them as well as they can or people couldn’t afford to live there. My husband had to be there where my daughter works for
          several weeks to receive therapy after a fall. He was well taken care of.
          The things is, the Feds take so much in taxes, the state can’t afford to tax as they need to. History shows that lower taxes mean more people working and the tax money comes rolling in. Raise taxes and people get laid off or businesses close thus jobs lost.

          • Normal Guy

            American Citizen

            I am sorry to read that your husband had a fall and required an extended stay at a care facility.

            I do understand your frustrations with government and how difficult it can be to make ends meet. I feel that the government can always raise the foundation of the nation and lift the standards for all Americans, and I think they should.

            In regard to the debt and the economic health of the country, I am confident that we are doing what is required. Be aware that we are most certainly going to have some inflation, but the Chicken Little scenario is incorrect.

            The US is the global reserve currency which means that every nation that holds our dollars will contribute through inflation to the reduction of our debt. Unemployment is high right now so there is lots of room to grow again allowing for strong stimulus while mitigating inflation somewhat. The biggest US debt is held by China and Japan and neither of them want to see the US dollar tank as it would damage their economies and their biggest trading partner.

            We came close to a global meltdown, it is going to be a long road back to where we were in 2000 – a strong economy and a declining debt – but we will get there.

          • American Citizen

            Not until we get politicians with some common sense in D.C. The outrageous spending is going to go on as long as this current administration is in place. It’s going to take years now as it is to get this country back on track.

          • James

            Normal Guy, you said” “we are most certainly going to have some inflation.” Back in 1930, corn was $.07/bu., now it’s $2.34/bu.; and Gold was $25/oz., now it’s $1100+/oz. You must be a young fella. Inflation is built into the money system. No new dollars may come into existence unless individuals, businesses and governments borrow it from the Federal Reserve system, at interest. This assures that the total debt always exceeds the money in circulation, which demands evermore borrowing, which continues until it busts.

      • http://personalliberty jake

        Actually, the Fed was created in 1913.

        • denniso

          And, the Fed was created in response to the financial panic of 1907.

          • Rod James

            Denniso, Ya! The panic was caused by the usual Wall Street manipulations.

      • PS

        Normal Guy, you’re great at sounding like the all knowing expert, and here and there stick in jabs to blame Reagan and consrvatives for the state of things. What I suggest you do is print out a copy of Apple Eaters 10:23 response, put it away for a few years. In that time I suggest all the right wing nut jobs sit back, shut up and let Soros puppet Obama go about his business of destroying the U.S. When you wake up and wonder what happened, you can go back and pull out this blog, but just don’t say it was Reagan’s and Bush’s fault!

        • cr747

          PS, very true and plainly spoken. I don’t think normal guy is quite all there. Definitely not NORMAL!!!!!!!!

      • http://none CETMEfree

        apple eater… re: your comment of 14 Dec @ 10:23 hours…

        The Federal Reserve was created in 1913-14 with the passing of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. (not in the 30′s).

        By the end of 1914, a corporation called the Depository Trust Corporation was fully-formed as a holding/clearing/umbrella administrating entity.

        It has often been said, by the very wise, that to conquer a nation, without its Citizens even knowing what’s happened to them, you must do only three simple things. 1. Control the media; 2. control the issuance and loaning of an interest-bearing, ‘fiat’ currency and the ability to inflate or deflate it; 3. control the processes of the courts and the influence and interpretation of the laws and policies and to effect the implementation of a uniform commercial code as public policy.

        Well…the Depository Trust Corporation, by the end of 1914, owned… The New York Times and The Boston Globe (THE media of the United States, at the time, and would you think they stopped aquiring and controlling, when the radio… and then the television… found their way into America’s living-rooms?); it owned the Federal Reserve Bank (see #2 above); and it owned the American Bar Association (#3 ?… oh yeah!!!).

        The Depository Trust Corporation is, still today, very alive and well, and registered (since 1914) as a ‘for-profit’ Delaware corporation. It’s headquarters is at 55 Water Ave. in New York City. And the name of their building, above the front door, is “Tower of Power”. Facts Are Stubborn Things!

        The question, which seems to be compelling We the People to decide is… who we ultimately are… Are we John Q. Public, The Sovereign Citizen of the united States of America… or are we JOHN Q. PUBLIC… a legal fiction subject/person, considered property of the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. Are we Sovereigns of the Constitution (a limited representative republic) or HUMAN RESOURCES of a sub-governmental democracy, operating within the Constitution (Article 1, Section 8, clause 17), with complete abandonment to administering limited constitutional government… and its business relevent to the SOLE TASK of securing the inailiable rights and liberty of its individual Sovereign state’s Citizens and their posterity?

        Since Congress, back in 1913, committed a felony-breach of their oath of office, by relenquishing control (Article 1, Section 8, clause 5) of our nation’s money, to a private, international, tontine banking cartel… We the People (over that period of 96 years) have been coerced and manipulated into not paying attention to what eminates from our nation’s capitol. We the people are indeed GUILTY of this… and have allowed our elected representatives to, in esscense, govern the nation, based only upon building an ever-expanding, unlimited democracy (an entirely different form of government than a republic)… And, never ever forget that the word democracy does not appear once in the Costitution nor in the Bill of Rights.

        I very highly recommend that you all search, on the internet… and read…

        “United States Senate Report 93-549
        “Who is Running America”
        “Parens Patriae Government as Parent”
        “Memorandum of Law on the Name by Gordon Epperly”

        That’s a fairly good list to start with.

        Then pour youself a stiff drink… take a deep breath… and make sure you’re sitting down!… then search and read an editorial written back in 1792.

        Search “Phillip Freneau, Rules for Changing a Limited Republic into an Unlimited Aristocratic Monarchy”. Pay close attention to rules 4,5, especially 6, 7, 8, and 9.

        If this editorial is not the ‘to-the-letter game-plan and mission statement’ of the New World Order seekers… and exactly what is being shoved down our throats, by those in power and of influence, who seek our national demise… then please, please tell me what is?

        In Liberty,
        CETMEfree

        • Rod James

          CETMEfree, Excellent information it’s too bad that Normal won’t believe it. Normal and many others still beleive in THE AMERICAN DREAM which made a few very rich but has now turned into THE AMERICAN NIGHTMARE. Get ready for hyper infaltion, more unemployment, electric blackouts food and fuel shortages,civil unrest detention camps. I am not being pessimistic and I hope it won’t be that extreme but I have read alot of information that looks like the direction the US going. There never has in HISTORY been a country that has made the strides that America has and it is a crying shame that she has fallen to the state she is in now.

    • DaveH

      Normal Liberal,
      As usual your comment is laced with Personal Attacks and unsupported facts. From your comment:
      “You are deep in a fantasy world of fear and conspiracies”.
      “The ridiculous hypothesis that backing all currency with hard commodities creates a stable, moral society is simplistic at best and delusional at worst”.
      “An economy with zero leverage, where no assets have value without the backing of a specific commodity, (say gold) has no advantage and lots of negatives”.

      Did Bob say anything about assets having no value if the dollar is not backed by Gold (or other such commodity)? Physical assets will always have intrinsic value. He was talking strictly about paper money.
      And you expect no bank runs with unbacked money? Maybe so, if the money becomes worthless. Hardly a desirable alternative.
      You would have fared well in the Weimar Republic.

      • James

        DaveH, good point, everything has value. Trading one’s older second car for your neighbors riding lawnmower doesn’t require paper money or gold. Mowing someone’s yard for a good meal, doesn’t either.

    • Monty

      Name these prosperous fiat currency country’s you talk of, there are none with any longevity and your delusion of the new economy needs to be filed with the other Marxist dreams that have been relegated to the trash bin of history. Maybe you didn’t notice the climate change hoax has been uncovered and your liberal media can’t cover it up any more.

      • Normal Guy

        Monty

        Let’s see fiat currency countries that are successful. That’s a tough one, oh I know the entire western world, the most prosperous dynamic economies in history that have created the greatest prosperity for the largest percentage of their populations.

        What world do you live in, all modern economies are based on fiat currencies.

        • denniso

          Hard to follow these guys…The U.S. has been the single most successful economy in the world since WW2, w/varying degrees of gov’t regulation and the right wing now thinks it’s wrecked because of gov’t intervention,designed to halt the 2nd largest financial disaster in our history. Did the right wing whine when Bush/Cheny were busting the budget and running up debt? NO?? I can’t help but wonder if it’s only that they hate Democrats and especially black Democrats, and they can’t get away w/ sounding racist so they make
          up names to call Obama..marxist,communist,socialist,Muslim(and what if he were,so what?)

    • ANONYMOUS AMERICAN

      Well normal guy, since you believe conspiracy theories are all about fear mongering, this is for you! This man spent over 10 years of his life fighting against the FED RESERVE AKA THE FRAUD and he exposed them quite well! Read the last part of this sentence many times and understand he spoke this in the 20′s! He gave us our future if we allowed the FED to control our country!

      The Federal Reserve Bank of New York is eager to enter into close relationship with the Bank for International Settlements…. The conclusion is impossible to escape that the State and Treasury Departments are willing to pool the banking system of Europe and America, setting up a world financial power independent of and above the Government of the United States…. The United States under present conditions will be transformed from the most active of manufacturing nations into a consuming and importing nation with a balance of trade against it. LOUIS T. MCFADDEN

      • James

        Anonymous, here’s another one.
        A few days before the Federal Reserve Act was enacted, Senator Henry Cabot Lodge wrote a letter to Senator Weeks and had it published in the Congressional Record. It reads in part:

        My Dear Senator Weeks: The powers vested in the Federal Reserve Board seem to me highly dangerous… The bill as it stands seems to me to open the way to a vast inflation of the currency. …I cannot vote for it as it stands, because it seems to me to contain features and to rest upon principles in the highest degree menacing to our prosperity, to stability in business and to the general welfare of the people of the United States.

        • ANONYMOUS AMERICAN

          YES JAMES, WE CAN GO ON AND ON WITH QUOTES FROM MEN THAT WARNED US ABOUT THE FED AKA THE FRAUD! SADLY, WE ARE NOW REAPING WHAT WE HAVE ALLOWED TO BE SOWN! WE FORGOT THAT IGNORANCE IS BLISS UNTIL YOU ARE ENSLAVED! NOW WHAT WILL WE THE PEOPLE DO ABOUT IT! WE SHALL SEE!

          • James

            Anonymous, I agree it’s time for action. A good place to start is by replacing Sen. Dodd, Rep. Frank and their ilk with people who hate the big banks. Back when we had only small banks, one paid his mortgage payment to the bank down the street. Today, Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac hold over 50% of all home mortgages, and through derivaties had bundled and sold them to the world at large. Foreign investers now own a sizeable chunk of America.

    • http://www.morpix.biz/x4(adopted) Dave Wilber

      There are only TWO possible economic systems; barter and slavery. God commanded a barter system: “Thou shalt not steal.” The Constitution mandates a barter sysystem of gold and silver coins, Art.1, Sec.10. Money has no place in a barter system.Our problems began when people first called gold “money” but gold is wealth. The late Merrill Jenkins, Monetary Realist, inventor of the dollar bill changer and author of “Money”, The Greatest Hoax On Earth said “Money expropriates wealth.” In that book, He predicted the collapse of 2008. In 1979, I heard him say: “We have world government now, our monetary sys-tem would not work if all of the world’s bankers were not in collusion. That collusion was obvious with the crash in 2008.

      The Federal Reserve admitted on page 3, Modern Money Mechanics that they operate a confidence game and that the history of banking is a history of fraud. It doesn’t matter what they admit if less than 1% read it and the few who recite it are ridiculed. In another publication, they said their system “works only with credit.” Do you know anyone who pays taxes with credit? Can you tell us why our misleaders need any money when all of us are risking our lives for weightless credit that God forbids? De. 25:13-15 $lavery!!!

      There would be no wars if wars required taxes. Taxes cannot be paid with credit. Nobody
      wants us to pay taxes, WE MUST PRETEND OR BE JAILED AND HAVE OUR HOMES SIEZED! We will have endless wars as long as soldiers and suppliers pretend we are all
      paid with strips of paper that have not promised payment since 1963.

      For those who insist “the system works.” Any veteran’s cemetery is vivid proof that the system works out of our land, our labor and our lives! Shakespeare had words for those people: “What fools these mortals be!”

  • hunter

    Right on target Bob. Inflation is the silent burglar, with stealth and cunning, invisibility, the naysayers as accomplice. My solice is that not all lemmings go over the cliff, I guess that is a built in survival trait of nature. Most buy insurance, for the house, the car health, it pays to be prepared. God, guns, gold, long term food storage. But I may not need all this, because as soon as they let my rich Uncle out of the poor farm….

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      And inflation is going to get real bad. All this money they are printing day or night, will totally lead to unseen inflation. Thank comrade Obummer and his boys who do not have a clue what they are doing. Their plan is to give the worthless sector of society a free ride and insure their future votes, while paying the UAW billions of dollars to insure their future votes. They think that will do it, but I see it differently. In 2010 and 2012, these liberals will be voted out in mass, you watch and see. Dummies dont prosper, and these dummies arent any different than the other fallen dummies.

      • cr747

        If we don’t stop this administration NOW, we will be eating rice and speaking Chinese. This is the most irresponsible group that has ever been in Washington. Obama is only having a BIG party at our,”the tax payer’s,” expense. The only thing he knows to do is listen and do what ever the people that he has appointed to office tell him to do.
        Some of that being to help the BIG CORPORATIONS and BANKS by getting THE UNITED STATES more deeply in debt than any other PRESIDENT we have ever had. The bad thing about it is they, do not care, because their time is limited to 2010.
        THANK GOD WE CAN VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • cr747

          ALSO!!!!!!! They are only making their wallets fatter. Just like the lady,”if you want to call her that,” from Louisiana bargaining for THREE HUNDRED MILLION to get her vote, and also AARP for the fat wallet they got. Obama says AARP is for the plan, but I sure as HE– haven’t seen or heard of any members that were asked their OPINION on what they thought about it from AARP!!!!!!!!
          The fat wallets continue to a lot more to. Obama’s wife has got more on her staff than any other FIRST LADY,”if you want to call her that,” has ever had.

          • denniso

            Nobody is listening to you…

          • cr747

            You must have been!!!!!!!

      • Rod James

        Booberoni, No one is worthless! Even you with your snotty, “holier than thou” attitude. Obama knows exactly what he is doing but it won’t
        benefit the average US citizen. He is just carrying out a plan buy the previous administrations Rep/Dem to reinflate bubbles (growth) in the economy.The trouble is mathematically these bubbles will always collapse over time.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          No, his anti American people moves make him worthless to all of us, except you with a left wing liberal agenda that dont care about this country. Thats it man.

          • Rod James

            Beberoni, I have never said I agree with Obama or any Presidents agenda
            either Dem or Rep. I just stated he might be worthwhile to some mainly wife and kids and all the lobbyists & buisness elite. I even stated he wouldn’t do the average American (you or me!)any good. I have no agenda and care deeply about the US PEOPLE WHO COMPRISE 99% OF THE POPULATION AS COMPARED TO THE ELITEST 1% TRILLIONAIRS/BILLIONAIRS who are responsable for milking the country dry and sending her into a finacial tail spin.

  • Wireline

    Re: Normal Guy

    It is easy to write it off wholesale, but they are building their house upon sand and have been for quite awhile. They will ultimately reap what they have been sowing. Another thing, the founders had it right when they recognized the dangers of a fiat currency and a centralized banking system, in control of the expansion of a fiat currency. Greed is the first thing that comes to mind. Read what Thomas Jefferson had to say on the subject and the wars that Andrew Jackson had with the banksters of his day. You are the one being simplistic, it is never going to be as easy as you would like to make it sound and the fall is going to be that much harder when it happens and yes we are all going to suffer from it.

    • denniso

      Wire…there is one constant in capitalism…boom and bust. read your history. The more ‘free’ and less regulated capitalism is the more severe the booms and busts. The Europeans smooth out the boom/bust cycles w/ more gov’t controls. The no nothing party in this country fails to learn any lessons from history,so we keep repeating the same old mistakes.

      • DaveH

        How about some references to your boom and bust statements? Any Liberal (Normal or not so) can make unsupported statements.

        Here is one of mine:
        http://mises.org/daily/2121

        • denniso

          Do you really not know about the history of the boom/bust cycles in America?? You could try reading some actual history. Find a graph of the economy over the last 200 yrs and look at it.

          • cr747

            denniso, if you are so smart, why don’t you explain it to us. Don’t know what you are talking about do you. You are all mouth with nothing to back it up!!!!!!!!!!

          • denniso

            cr747..do some homework on your own time..I’ve read and looked and researched this stuff for decades..you can do it too.

          • cr747

            denniso, didn’t have to have to much history in Law School.

      • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

        These guys just don’t get that money is nothing more than a medium of exchange, that’s it. It is worth exactly what people believe its worth! They fail to take in consideration the fact the money supply has moved in direct proportion to the population in the country throughout the years. There is no way to use any other medium of exchange to move with the growing population other than population control, which nobody wants to talk about.

      • Joe H.

        denniso,
        And any idiot knows that regulation leads to “false” ceilings!!!! What happened when the Natural Gas was deregulated? It went to the price it would have been if regulation hadn’t kept lower than it would have naturally been!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Hey, come on now. Do you hear what your saying? More government controls? And you think Europe is a model we should follow? I dont see a lot of us flocking over there to live, but I do see a lot of them moving over here, or at least we used to. Wonder why that is? Their tax rate is astronomical. The muslims are slowly taking over town after town and city after city, and the liberalism has taken their morals down the drain. You like it over there, you need to move there, and maybe you will find out we dont want to follow their lead.

  • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

    I hope some of our “intellectual” business minds, who paid attention in class, are aware that you learn in Economics 101 that what Obama is doing in this so called the “New World Order” where what these “people” are doing is called “redistribution of the wealth” which is a Marxist concept and Marx himself worshiped Lucifer! So, no wonder this “Islamic” trained President is trying to destroy us economically!

    • denniso

      Boy,oh boy…There is no such being as Lucifer. He’s a myth.

      • cr747

        Ha!!! Shows how intelligent you are.

      • Rod James

        Thats pretty funny!! Even if its more of your juvenial, personal
        attacks.

  • Willie Stoker

    I predict a rude awakening in the near future for the so called “normal Guy” There are too many people like him, who just won’t accept the truth until it is too late.

    Those who concur with this sort of thinking are probably educated by the same Marxist professors who were responsible for Obama’s ideas on the economy and the means of taking over the country by a Marxist regime.

    • DaveH

      Yes, personally I wouldn’t want to call myself Normal which implies Average or So So. But he probably has named himself accurately. And that is the problem with our country – it is being run by “normal” everyday people who buy votes from the uneducated public.

      • Normal Guy

        Dave H

        No I would not call you normal Dave.

        Abnormal perhaps? sub-normal maybe? misinformed, myopic, reactionary, narrowminded…

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The Normal on him, I would take to be Abby. Abby Normal.

  • Ray

    are numismatic or rare coins better hedge than bullion

    • therabbit

      no the value of numismatic coins will be worth just about the same as bullion

      • Ray

        If our economy sours but we are able to maintain a decent living or keep what we have are numismatic coins better than bullion. I do not if the sky will fall or we if we will be able to rebound!!

        • denniso

          Ray, relax…we’ve already rebounded from what was a panic less than a yr ago to a higher stock market and more stable economy. Do you know how much worse it could have been if the gov’t hadn’t intervened?
          I even credit Bush w/ taking steps after the crash to halt the panic..
          of course he gets lots of blame for not stepping in earlier to slow the bubble and prevent a crash. The sky is no longer falling,despite what the fear mongers are telling you(often they have a vested interest in scaring people).

          • Rich

            Normal,

            I stated intrinsic value to Humans not to Americans on purpose. Why because if I take that same dollar to the tribes of south America who have very little contact with outsiders it’s value is bubkiss, but if I take gold they will assign it a greater value.

            By arguing with all the B.S. you got from a google search or one of your old college texts, you’re showing that you have no idea how the average American lives and thinks. Same could be said of someone like me who does not have a lot of money I have no idea how the wealthy think. I do know for a fact that anytime you create something out of nothing you still have nothing and that is the point of this entire exercise, period. You can sit there with all your books and degrees, but it boils down to the same thing that happened to the Soviet Union and that is they kept printing money causing hyper-inflation making their money completely worthless, which is what we are doing now. The reason you would want a backed currency is to limit the amount of currency in production and nothing more to ensure that currency does not become completely worthless. Open your eyes and smell the roses cause the shit has already hit the fan and we are in for much harder times because of idiot politicians buying into the crap that those same people that taught you taught them, which is common sense is wrong and we can never fall because we are America! Well guess what they and you are wrong on this in the most gravest sense, too many countries have risen and fell due to similar issues. We are just 1 of many not unique in any way in the grand history of the world.

          • Rich

            oh and I never said backed was the answer only simplified what Bob had stated and stated that was what I was doing if you had taken the time to read rather than try to overly complicate things. You remind me of a service person that is completely clueless of what to do or even what is wrong trying to explain to the person absolutely nothing, because they know absolutely nothing about what is wrong.

          • Normal Guy

            Rich

            Ignorance is bliss, all those educators out there are part of the economic conspiracy, I gueass. Anything is possible if you don’t care about learning how it works. You remind me of the guy who calls the service desk and complains when he is told that he can’t help you when you describe the problem with the thing-a-ma-jig, you know the one behind the wats-a ma-call-it.

            The dollar is not created out of nothing. It is based on the ability of the country to support it, GDP – the productive power of the economy. Gold has no value other than it can be traded for other currencies, which also have no value if there is no production to back it, if you double the size of the economy, you can double the number of dollars with no inflation, if the economy tanks you have to pull money out of the economy or you get stagflation. If you increase the size of the economy and don’t increase the number of dollars you get deflation.

            Anyhow, of course you know how it all works because it is just common sense. Simple I guess, why make it all complicated.

          • Joe H.

            Normal lib,
            If indeed there isn’t a problem with our teachers and our schools, then why have we fallen so far in the world standings in math and science???

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Well, the liberal think tank runs the schools, maybe they can answer. Seems there solution to everything is throw some more dollars at it, and they keep doing that, upping property taxes constantly to pay for it, but the education is lacking. They are more concerned about changing Tom Sawyer books and creation books and making it all nice and politically correct, that the education doesnt matter. Pass everyone, no failures, no awards for excellence, then they wonder why we have a problem. Unbelievable.

      • DaveH

        One thing that would worry me about dollar-denominated coins is that if there was a confiscation they(the government) may deem a purchase at fair value to be the face value of the coin. Maybe you could avoid that theft by keeping good documentation of the actual amount you paid for the coins. I guess you would have to do same for rounds or bullion. Anyway, it’s something you should look into.

        • James

          DaveH, did you mean “the government may deem a purchase at fair value to be the [intrinsic] value of the coin.” When FDR confiscated the $20 gold coins, he purchased them for $20, when the instrinsic value of the gold was then $35/oz. After the confiscation he raised the price of gold to that.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I for one, if it comes to that in my life time, where the government intrusion is to the point where they come and start confiscating coins and such, I will move into the mountains and become like Robin Hood, and I wont be the only one. There is still shelter and plenty of food in nature to keep one aptly living a good wholesome life, and the advantage goes to the one who knows his surroundings. So I would become a mountain man, and it would be like Rambo all over again, only there would be hundreds of Rambo’s with me. I dont think no sissy money collector would wander up there to find us.

      • Joe H.

        Rabbit,
        Right now silver is at about 17.00 an ounce. A 1993 p mint silver eagle is worth about 78.00. without a very hard downturn of the value or economy, then numismatics are your best bet. now if the economy bottoms out then bullion is best!

    • weltreGIERer

      Rare coins have historically been exempt from gold confiscation just like collector items. On the other hand rare coins would be probably too valuable as a black market currency for payment of every day needs.

      Further I need to say. Brilliant article by Bob! No amount of rhetoric, propaganda or half baked reasoning can deny the chain of moral degradation that comes with handing politicians a money printer.

    • http://personalliberty jake

      Bullion. And remember, there is no such thing as confiscation proof. Remember who makes the rules…..congress can pass a law to confiscate anything.

  • Raggs

    It can be all summed up in one word….”Wealthcare”….

  • FreedomGuy

    Normal Guy….I don’t know where you get your information from. GW, the Reps and Dems congress raised the debt from 5 trillion to 10 Trillion in 8 years between 2000 – 2008. Obama and the dem congress has raised it another 2 trillion in just 11 months. Obama’s own Budget management office predicts a 24 Trillion debt by 2019 (READ: OBAMA HIMSELF PREDICTS THIS). Now, if that isn’t going to set off inflation, I don’t know what is.

    Your green energy…if viable would have already taken off in a free market. It is not viable. With a few money saving exceptions being exploited by companies like Walmart, green energy is a fraud.

    I just finished Atlas Shrugged and Ayn Rand is brilliant. If you steal from the industrious, to support the lazy, the industrious being slaves to the lazy will quit being industrious. It’s just human nature.

    • denniso

      Sorry guy,but Ayn Rand was a hack thinker and reactionary and hypocrite. Not a bad novelist, but to ascribe any deep thinking to her or buddies like Milton Friedman is laughable.
      Greener energy would be more competitive w/ oil and nuclear if the real costs were figured in. For instance, the trillions in military aid to middle eastern countries and our own bloated military needed to protect the flow of oil. The taxpayer $$ that go toward cleaning up the pollution spewed from every car on the road,in the form of catalytic converters,emissions tests,etc…nearly free public land aquired by corporations as drilling leases. Gov’t built waste respositories like wipp in NM to store nuclear waste. Gov’t provided liability insurance for the nuke industry because it’s too expensive for the industry to buy because of the chance of a catastrophic event. An entire set of agencies at the state and fed level to watchdog the carbon energy industry for pollution and actions detrimental to people and the earth..paid for by your tax $$. Sure,get rid of regulation and monitoring of the carbon energy sector and see how well that works.

      • DaveH

        A “Hack” thinker is certainly better than being a non-thinker who thinks he is a thinker.
        If what you say is true about the costs of pollution, then explain to us how the alternative energies didn’t thrive before 1970 when the EPA was established? Anybody can flap their lips about the best course of action. The free market lets the people make their best choices. In a free market the products that proliferate are those that the public desires, not those that starry-eyed Liberals think are best for us.

      • Joe H.

        denniso,
        Do you think that the only reason we have troops in the middle east and other parts of the world is OIL?!?!?! We also have them there for our own protection and the protection of our allies!!! don’t be a less than non thinker!!!

        • coal miner

          JoeH,

          Denniso is absolutely correct,most of these so called allies are brutal dictatorships.That is all the reason we are over there for,the oil.JoeH,you are dreaming.

          • Joe H.

            coal minor,
            yup we sure are getting a lot of oil from Europe!!! We shouldn’t have to buy from anyone else for centuries!! But if we need to we got all that oil in south Korea!!! Or Japan!! Boy All that oil!!!! And those dirty dictators!!!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        At least she and the others you listed, dont let Al Gore do their thinking like you do. Green doesnt work, its all hype, and its not needed. Im all for recycling, not littering, and taking care of the environment, but this global warming lies are old lies that are going away, Al Gore was revealed as the leper he is trying to trick America into making him a billionaire, and this old world is going good and strong. The only problem is the environmentalist extremists who blow up car lots, burn down buildings, and pound nails into trees that are destroying the environment. Get over yourself and your agenda denniso. Its not working, its not correct, and its all a lie and you and your ilk have been exposed. Its thats simple. Now stop being simple minded and let amuck by Al Gore and his ilk, hike up your panties, and be a person. Geez.

        • denniso

          Beb, gibberish and nonsense!!!

          • Joe H.

            denniso,
            How do you explain 300,000,000 since leaving office??? How do you explain a house that uses more energy than any three normal houses in Average middle class America??? One disease Gore will never be suffering from is lacagreenbacks!!!

        • cr747

          AL GORE IS A COMPLETE JOKE. HE’S THE LAUGH OF THE CENTURY. EVERYONE IS BEGINNING TO SEE THE REAL AL GORE!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • James

      FreedomGuy, good point, President Carter once said: “Those who work should live better than those who don’t.” At the time, it was possible for an enterprising female to get drunk, have evermore illegitimate children and, through the increase of welfare payments, live higher on the hog than many who had jobs.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I guess that shows what kind of hypocrite Carter is. He loved to give away what workers made to those who dont want to work for it. If he didnt, he wouldnt have been a democrat now would have he?

        • cr747

          Beberoni, I give you a 10. Way to go!!!!!!!!!!

        • James

          Beberoni, I quoted President Carter to demonstrate his hypocrisy.

  • Robert Moore

    What happens when all the money collected in taxes does not equal the amount due in “interest only” on the debt? And that with nothing left over to “run” the government. As that number is approching faster than we can imagine, it might be useful to remember that the money borrowed in the creation of that “debt” did not exist in any real terms with value at the Fed where it was created out of Nothing. So we owe interest on an invention out of whole cloth. That’s an infinate interest rate regardless of percent. Commodity money acts a a feedback governor mechanism in the machine of the economy. If it is a constant the machine functions correctly as markets reflect that value. With the “macro” management by the Fed, most often the wrong “correction” is made. If Carter years suffered 13% inflation and 20% prime to pull out the money in circulation, what will be the effect of the 120% inflation (TARP, as still unreleased from the bank vaults)if it is forced into circulation? The ONLY reason the dollar is still worth anything is BECAUSE those funds are “hoarded”. We can always look at M3 the volume of money and determine…. oh wait, the FED stopped collecting that statistic in 06. Sorry, nevermind.

    • James

      Robert Moore, I say we’re there now. The interest we pay China (alone) amounts to more than the federal government pays to retirees in Social Security payments. Heard that from a congressman, just a few days ago, on C-Span.

  • Gil

    Money or exchange of goods wether material or spirtual of human bahavior should be given to those with a gentetic balance of weights and measures in their persona behavior.To those who lack the virtues of genetic balances should seek medical help or recieve some sort of welfare. All Money (gold ,silver,prostituion ect) is just like the dust and wind. We should nourish the spirit and soul with the riches beyond this world. That is the holy spirit in Yahshuas eternitys loves name..:))

  • Raggs

    When inflation hits and it will as soon as the bubble on wall street burst. We can look foward to the rationing of food and goods..
    This will be the perfect set-up for the “mark” to be forced by the government.. We can either watch, wait and see or be ready for it.

    • denniso

      Raggs…first of all,inflation is a bedfellow of capitalism. It is as much a part of the ‘free market’ as supply and demand are. Every business person tries to raise prices as much as possible and as often as possible. Hence,inflation. It can be moderate and so we call it the ‘normal cost of living increase’ or it can become rampant and out of control…but it is nevertheless a real and continual aspect of capitalism unless we have negative growth and recession or depression. Read some economics…all of you.

      • Robert Moore

        denniso..says..”first of all,inflation is a bedfellow of capitalism. It is as much a part of the ‘free market’ as supply and demand are.” and that prices rise because that nasty ol’ capitalist trys to get as much as the traffic will bare. If he prices it too high, the next type of substitute good will get the dollars, so he drops his price because of market response…. But the classic definition of inflation is “too many dollars chasing too few goods”. SO FIRST OF ALL inflation is the bedfellow of the creation of MORE money. If you are at an auction and everyone has the price of the goods offered ($100)then tax reduces that to $99 available and subsidy gives out (redistribution of wealth) the extra printed, now someone has $110 to pay for the item. The item will be more costly, being more costly to produce,it’s price must reflect it’s value in “demand”. Suggest you read Austrian Economics rather than Keynesian or read “Economics 101″ by Thomas Sowel. Or are you afraid of what a former Marxist black man might have to say on the subject.

        • DaveH

          Denniso is afraid of anything that might actually give him some knowledge. He would much rather attack others with his mindless statements.

          • Lynn

            Is it possible, for those who are able, to purcahse real estate, that will sustain most of their needs? (i.e. live off the land) Even Isaiah 2:20 states: there will come a time, when gold and silver will be of no worth. Can real estate be paid off in the short term by inflated dollars on fixed interest rate loans?

          • DaveH

            That assumes stability on the concept of property ownership. The first thing the Communists did was to take ownership away from the citizens.
            Look at what goes on right now with the blatant property takings under the guise of “eminent domain”.

          • Chuck Brainard

            I liked JC’s 11:03am comment in RE; (communist manifesto) Goverment power to control central Banking. As we are seeing today. Gov. gives out big money to the banks, tells them use it as they see fit. But Obama says “hey guys now loan it to these sm. Business” We all know these banks are leaders in Trilateral com. & CFR and Bilders. And you know Obama Knows it too. And they are saying I seem to need to keep it. We need to pay these CEO’s. Our Pres. scolds them in public media just to try to fool us into believing he’s unhappy w/banks. Hey he’s in on it. I don’t believe him. Do you?

          • Raggs

            Chuck.
            This is all a shell game to keep the public in the dark, most people are like the three monkey’s hear no evil etc…(sheeple).Its easy to fool the masses. You think that the government controlling the banking system is bad just wait until we have health>>> “wealthcare”… Micro management of every citizens lives whether they are legal citizens or not. This is all about one order and that is the “New world order”.
            The administration is full of snakes ready to strike out any opponents which includes any industry with large assets. Lets take a look at ACORN, SEIU, TIDES, MOVEON.ORG.. they are all affliated with obama and have only one agenda spreading the wealth from the tax payers and large industries to everyone obama is bowing too.

            So to answer your question I for one do not believe anything the government does especially if they say it is for our good or wellbeing.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You forgot George Soros, the main funder.

          • cr747

            Did you know denniso was a commie??????? I didn’t either till I read it on another link.!!!!!! YEA!!!!!!!

        • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

          Man is inherently weak and evil, especially where the subject of economics is concerned. The majority of economist’s have molded and embedded their sick fantasy view of the world through the education system, ie. harvard, princeton, mises institute, austrian school of economics, etc. They view unproveable, even with mathematics, laws that govern what people should do on this planet with their lives, as being as perfect as the allmighty himself.

          Stop quoting economists. Stop listening to them. Listen to your conscience, unless you like living in their sick fantasy hell, that benefits nobody but them.

        • denniso

          Robert…if a capitalist economy is not stagnating or in depression,there is always inflation even if relatively low. Look back at the healthy yrs of our economy and you’ll see typically 2% or a little more inflation. Look through our history and you’ll see what you apparently haven’t learned yet.

      • Raggs

        Your correct.. I should have clarified what I meant.. Hyperinflation brought out due to the out of control goevernment spending, the falling value of the dollar, the wreckless “wealthcare bill” or law as it soon will be, referred to by some as healthcare. the global climate treaty which is nothing more than “spreading the wealth” as someone put it. and the enormous tax increases soon to come.
        All of this adds up to the detruction of the US economy and therefore the rationing of goods. This is all being planned in my opinion for the sake of more power and control by “big brother”

      • DaveH

        Read some economics? What a laugh. You are clueless and yet have the nerve to lecture others. Inflation is purely a monetary phenomenon. If the money supply was stable, some businesses could raise their prices if their goods were in demand, but then there would be less money to buy other goods whose prices would necessarily decrease.

        For those who want to learn about the mechanisms of inflation this is an excellent online book:
        http://mises.org/books/Inflation_its_cause_and_cure_haberler.pdf

        • Normal Guy

          Dave H – still spewing libertarian fantasies. Do you work Dave? Do you contribute or are you on pension or living on evil interest? You spend most of your time pitching lame libertarian concepts on this thread, not to productive really. You should read something other than Austrian school, Libertarian fantasies backing everything you state up with rhetoric is not really backing it up, just parroting the line.

          Libertarian failures abound, Chile, New Zealand and the big daddy of them all…..Alan Greenspan and his flawed theory that markets will regulate themselves and that the fed should stay out – keeping interest rates low and encouraging deregulation. Greenspan was part of Ayn Rands inner circle, a disciple of her Objectivism – Libetrtarian ideas. He unleashed the worst financial crisis since the depression.

          I am sure what we really need is more Libertarian ideas, drive us back to the stone age, then we can trade furs and never worry about inflation again.

          Here is a link

          http://pubrecord.org/nation/443/alan-greenspan-ayn-rand-and-the-credit-tsunami/

          • DaveH

            There you go again with your personal attacks in lieu of facts.
            And you are trotting out those dead horses again? Chile’s and New Zealand’s economies have both grown dramatically since they instituted free market mechanisms.
            If you would bother doing any real thinking and researching, you would find that the countries with the most “economic freedom” have the best economies and the most desirable living conditions.
            Here is a link to a list of Countries ranked by economic freedom for those whose minds are open (that leaves you out Normal Liberal):
            http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking.aspx

          • DaveH

            And I’m sure it would come as quite a surprise to Chile or New Zealand that their economies are failures.
            From Wikipedia: “In 2006, Chile became the country with the highest nominal GDP per capita in Latin America”.
            For New Zealand:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_New_Zealand

            If you pursue your current path of misinformation people aren’t even going to bother to read your comments. Much like the boy who cried wolf.

          • Chuckleduck

            Just afraid that revolution (ballot box)is too far away. Every day something loose shows up.

          • American Citizen

            I wish the votes were tomorrow. I agree the election seems so far away. The pols just aren’t listening. But what can we do? They ignore our phone calls, e-mails, etc. They seem determined to do what they and Obama want to do. Before the last election, anyone who really listened to the rhetoric knew what was going to happen.

          • http://www.iamfantasticfrank.com Fantastic Frank

            Thanks for everyone’s difference of opinions here but I need to know the answer to this question.. Are we headed for a hyperinflation or deflation.. should I be buying gold, silver, guns, stockpiling water, food, ammo? or just go about the last years of my life (I am 60) and hope and pray that I and every one else regardless of there age, current financial picture will survive what I see as could happen…. I like to watch movies .. and the one that comes to mind when I think about this is MEL GIBSON’S MAD MAX?

            Now I realize that I am not as well spoken as many of you are here talking about derivatives, ANN RAND, and the Trilaterial Commission or the CFR.
            That is not what I need to hear about who is to blame here or how we got here which I know is important because I know that unless we learn from the past we will be doomed to make the same mistakes over again, I know that its not an exact quote but that not the point..

            WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TOO SURVIVE THIS?

            Or am I asking too much of all you smart people?

            FF

          • American Citizen

            If everything goes bust, we can all go on the dole. Then see what the government does when it doesn’t have any money coming in.

            I’m not any smarter than you are and I don’t have the answer except to watch and vote in the election next year and vote all the socialists out.

          • Rich

            Follow what the people that have a lot of money are doing. Like Soros (sp?) and Glenn Beck, he acts like he is poor but he is far from it. Glenn is buying gold and silver. Soros I have no idea what he is doing, cause honestly I am too far down on the food chain of money to rub elbows with anyone remotely near him. Heck I can’t even afford to buy gold, seems about 50% of my income goes to good old uncle sam between all the hidden taxes and income taxes, I barely have a pot to piss in at times.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            The best way actually, and you can label me if you want, is to buy a Bible, get to know Jesus Christ, and then you wont have to worry about it anymore, because then you will have what truly matters, and you will realize that all the money is the world is one day going to be meaningless to all, and all that one can collect over a lifetime, will be left for someone else to enjoy, as the last time I checked, one out of one die one day. So its pure foolishness to spend ones life trashing lives and relationships in the pursuit of the allmighty dollar, which you cant take with you anyways.

          • DaveH

            By the way, I like that you bash the Libertarians. Misinforming Liberals like you are our best advertisement.
            What would really scare me would be for you to embrace the Libertarian Party. Your childish Liberal techniques of name-calling, ridicule, and condescension would not be welcome in my party.

          • DaveH

            And for those who think Greenspan is Libertarian (more of Normal Liberal’s misinformation):
            http://www.nndb.com/people/164/000023095/

          • Normal Guy

            Dave H

            Well here is a quote from your link that confirms Greenspan’s association with Rand and his realization that regulation of derivatives is required. He also has stated elsewhere that the flaw in his position is to do with coercion and greed distorting market forces.

            “Greenspan’s first wife, Joan Mitchell, introduced Greenspan to Objectivist author Ayn Rand, who became his friend and mentor. Greenspan wrote for Rand’s The Objectivist newsletter, and in 1957, he wrote an angry letter to The New York Times complaining about the paper’s review of Atlas Shrugged. Admirers of Rand, however, generally see Greenspan as a traitor, since he never advocated anything that approaches Rand’s absolute laissez-faire capitalism. In House hearings during the second month of the market meltdown of 2008, Greenspan testified that he had “found a flaw” in his market ideology, and conceded that he had been “partially” wrong in opposing regulation of derivatives”

            Libertarianism is a flawed concept as power in private hands is as dangerous, in fact more dangerous, than it is with government.

          • DaveH

            The difference is Normal Liberal, that the private hands don’t have the power of force that government hands do. Private companies can’t force us to buy their products, only government can do that.
            Sorry, but it is your philosophy that is flawed.

          • DaveH

            And talk about flawed. You Big Government lovers have had more than 70 years to get it straight. And here we are in another big mess. How many chances do you think you get?
            We need a real change.

          • Joe H.

            Normal Guy,
            I hate to tarnish your self worth, but if DaveH like myself is retired, he was a producer and produced for more years than you so don’t be so quick to pat yourself on the back!!!! Remember, most of the things that allow you to be a producer were produced before you were a producer!!! Like denniso you are becoming a less than non thinker!!!

          • Normal Guy

            Joe H

            I don’t intend to retire, I love building companies and hope to do it until the day I die. If like Dave you feel that there should be no government safety net for any in society – that every individual is responsible for themselves – that no tax is the best policy then get back to work and do something productive.

            I personally am happy to pay taxes to help those that are in need, to provide outstanding education, to help keep American citizens healthy through affordable health care. I feel that the tremendous opportunities that this country has provided for me require me to invest in America to make this country stronger. Success requires reinvestment.

            The history of this nation is not about self interest it is about sacrifice and commitment. The self serving all about me attitude is not what builds great families, communities or countries. You and Dave strike me as hateful selfish people, but that is just an impression, hopefully I am wrong.

            Something in the spirit of the season:

            “If the poor would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. (Scrooge)”

            Who needs a civil society, every man for himself.

          • cr747

            Normal Guy speak with forked tongue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • denniso

          DaveH..it’s my educated guess that you’ve never run a business of your own or been involved for yourself in any retail endeavor. I can tell from your rant. A fundamental of a market system is that every vendor tries to get as much as possible at any point in time. Sure,if the market won’t bear a price increase then that can’t happen. When an economy is healthy enough,everyone tries to raise prices,whatever the market will tolerate. 1%,2% inflation is considered healthy because it means the economy is comfortably above stagnation. Look it up,DaveH. Capitalism has all sorts of small and larger quirks and flaws that require gov’t intervention at appropiate times. Capitalism left to it’s devices will devour itself, as we recently have seen.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Inflation is a product of Barack Obama and the democrats running the presses around the clock. Sooner or later, there is so much paper money out there, its going to get spent, and the inflation will grow baby grow, and those with big bank accounts will reap in large interests rates, yep, all those rich democrats like George Soros, John Kerry, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, Tom Daschle, Charles Rangel, Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Dont fool yourself. Its part of these left wing liberals plan. They dont do a think if it isnt going to directly benefit them. That is what they are all about, and its high time you recognized that, and came down from your pipe dream.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Dont think so. Capitalism is great. It means if you are good, you get rewarded. I see no problem with that. The problem I see, is your democratic party wanting to punish success, and reward failure, like mass government handouts to people who wont work for a living. Like GM and Chrysler spending themselves into the ground with ungodly corporate bonuses and stupid stupid stupid bad union contracts. So they get rewarded for it. You pass failing kids in school, instead of giving them a big fat RED “F”, because it makes them feel bad. You take away trophies for first place, and they want to take away Valedictorian and Salutatorian awards because it makes the other kids feel bad. Come on man, this is a problem. Reward success, punish failure. Those that fail should have to try harder, because they arent carrying their weight, and our government expects us to carry them, while they sit on the porch drinking 40′s and smoking cigarettes all day on my dime. Sorry, I live in the real world, and Ive got a problem with that. Its all wrong.

  • http://kibitzer-truthseeker.blogspot.com Stan

    Good thoughts here, in the article and on the thread. My take: I suggest that we back off a bit from our noses being so close to the scene that we can’t see the forest for the trees, and take stock of where we’re at historically.

    Point: The world is very ‘globalized’ now – intricately interconnected. We can all collapse, or all rise, together.

    Point: classical capitalism requires such features as planned obsolescence – the constant manufacturing of and duplication of goods. Not efficient; not an intelligent use of resources; and also, thus why wars are so good for ‘the economy’. Just not good for the people. But ‘the people’ are not the bottom line, in such a system. The bottom line in such a system is a concept called profit. And speaking of:

    I suggest we look at fundamentals here. The fundamental motivating factor in the world currently (for most of the world’s peoples) is this concept called ‘profit’ – the making of a profit on one’s efforts. But what if people were – could be – motivated by another ‘carrot’. What if they were – could be – motivated by an understanding that the universe has purpose, and that purpose is Good; and part of that purpose is to live to our highest potential, as essentially souls on a spiritual journey – ‘spiritual beings having a human experience’ – giving of our best, since life has meaning, beyond in and of itself only. So in such a scenario, we can do away with money – especially money treated as a commodity in itself, instead of merely as a medium of exchange (as it started out being, before greed, and a sense of separation, crept into the picture). Which we can do electronically now, with a system of credits and debits, like local LETS systems do already.

    Of course, this will require humanity to recognize its essential Ground of Being being beyond merely the physical dimension. But there’s plenty of evidence for that now – that there is more than Man in the grand scheme of things. (Not to go into all that in this discussion.) So – it’s time, to get serious on this essential matter. Great Crisis creating great Opportunity.

    The ‘left’ and the ‘right’ can duke it out a while longer if they want. But really it’s time to move beyond the current paradigm. The planet – our home base, while we experience physical life – is waiting on us to get it.

    And getting rather impatient, it would appear, and so to speak.

    • denniso

      Good and well written comment Stan…but, your sentiments are going to be pilloried by the right and they will castigate you for being a marxist,or leftie. Not worshipping profit as the end all?? Very unamerican to these people.

    • Mrs.Mac.Teacher

      Dear Stan, I admire your logic, and your faith in our Ground of Being. I am not shy about calling that entity what the first historians called Him, God, our Eternal God. Too bad his creatures have wandered so far into the wilderness of idolatry of things that in the end will be totally worthless. I have no solution to the world’s problems, neither do the Republicans or the Democrats, or the Progressives, or the Independents. Ultimately, God works through His creatures and His creation to achieve His Plan and His purposes.

    • IrishIan

      Great thought, as far as Ideology goes but not to practical I don’t think. For something like that to work the people of the world would have to be way more united than I think is possible at this point in history. My religion also tells me that when things like what you are talking about happens that is pretty much a sign that we are at the end. I like the idea though I wish there was some way to practically apply it.

      • American Citizen

        Do you know they are talking about raising the minimum wage again? After just raising it in July? I heard one politician (don’t know who it was) say, “The minimum wage has nothing to do with the economy.” But the analysts say 300,000 jobs were lost after the last raise. What kind of idiots do we have in Congress? Raising the minimum wage again will make jobs so expensive, teenagers will no longer be hired and it’s hard form them to find a job now. Low-skill workers will also be without a job.

        I also wonder if it’s not time to make sure our money has something behind it besides air.

        • DaveH

          I can tell you from personal experience that one maid was not hired in my household because I didn’t want to jump through the Government hoops.

        • Joe H.

          American Citizen,
          Hope you don’t like steak!!! burger king is going to cost you 15.00 for supper at the rates they’re going!!!

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          What kind of idiots in congress you say? The same ones that want to up taxes on business, take the money out of their hands, and make them lay off workers to have money to pay taxes with. They dont see that if they let business keep their money, they will have more money to hire workers with, and more production takes place, and more expansion happens, and everybody wins, but the democrat tax monsters screw it up every time. Truth is, Reagan had the economy rolling so good, it lasted 6 years through Clinton’s unprecedented tax increases, the highest in history, then the economy went in the tank. Bush inherited a recession, and got the economy rolling again, just to have the banks collapse ala Bill Clinton/Barney Frank/Franklin Raines/Jamie Gorelick/Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fiasco, and the economy staggered. Here comes Obama and they up taxes, baloon unemployment to 10 percent and rising, and now they are prepared to kill the Bush tax cuts in 2010, and millions more will, and yes they will, lose their jobs again, because of democratic taxes. Thats the facts, and the left cannot refute them, only offer biased lies, but the facts are there if one is truly wanting to find them.

      • DaveH

        Russia tried it. China tried it. Cuba tried it.
        One has to have some pretty-heavily-tinted rose colored glasses to think that system would work. All you have to do is look at your family to know that group efforts based on work-ethic only (no reward for performance) fail miserably. It is human nature (especially amongst Union members) to aspire to the lowest-common-denominator. When is the last time you saw somebody say “so-in-so works so hard, I want to be just like him”. I have never heard that, but I have heard many say “so-in-so is such a slacker, why should I work hard?”.

        • Joe H.

          DaveH,
          I’ve also heard them say of that same hard worker ” I don’t understand it, why can’t I have the same things he has? I put my time in just like he does.” When in reality, that’s all they do is put their time in!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Relax. We are in the end times. It is written you know, that in the end times there will be more and more earthquakes, floods, fires and catastrophies, that wrong will become right and right will become wrong. Dont have to look around too much to see that now, do we? Nope, its all there, if one chooses to see. Myself, I take comfort in it, as I know my future. Some should be scared, and those are the ones that should think it over, and start seeking some definate answers now.

    • DaveH

      “planned obsolescence”. I have heard that phrase bandied about for most of my life. And of course, it has never been supported with any real facts.
      The truth is that companies are in the business of making money, just as you or I expect to receive a decent wage for our efforts. Those companies often will decide to use cheaper parts to increase their profits. If the consumer buys it, then so be it. But if another company comes along and uses quality parts in its product, the first company can kiss its sales goodbye eventually. That is the beauty of the free market. Companies make their best guess at what the consumer will buy, and the consumers choose their favorites voluntarily. Then the Liberals come along with all their hot air and start choosing for the consumer. Of course, those Liberal choice-makers cost money so taxes go up. So we end up paying more money than before due to higher taxes and more disruption of the economy by the regulators, and someone else chooses our products for us.
      As Government grows, corruption flows.

      • DaveH

        Wish I could take credit Limestone, but that phrase is from Michelle Malkin.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Once again, you are correct Dave. I would think that this is what anyone with a decent mind would want, is a chance to be able to succeed at what they do. If your selling a decent product at a decent price, you will succeed, until the government interferes and starts giving help to those who compete against you, and tax the crap out of you to punish you for being successful, and its just all wrong. How did it come to be that excellence get punished, and failure gets rewarded? We move more and more into this mentality everyday, and this liberal mentality is killing us. Just killing us.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Or in the case of GM and Chrysler, they decided to use cheap parts like you mentioned and cut quality for price, and made junk, then nobody bought them. But enter the good old government, which rewarded them for this bad behavior with billions of dollars of our money, and here they are, allready, trying to find out what kind of bonuses they can give, and the unions are allready asking for more money. Unbelievable. Let the free market dictate success or failure. When someone does business unscruptulously like this, let them go under, and dont reward them. Weve gone wrong, and most of it starts with the meddling the government does. They have gotten too big for their britches, and they are messing things up for all of us.

    • ANONYMOUS AMERICAN

      THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION STAN IS SIMPLE BUT HAS NOT BEEN WITNESSED YET! GOOD OVER EVIL! MEN THINK THEY CAN WIPE OUT EVIL BUT THEY DON’T GET IT, EVEN WHEN THEY ACT GOOD THEY STILL HAVE EVIL IN THEM! EVIL IS NEVER DESTROYED ONLY TEMPORARILY DEFEATED! ONLY TRUE GOOD CAN DEFEAT TRUE EVIL! WHEN WILL THIS HAPPEN? THE ULTIMATE QUESTION OF THE AGES, BUT I BELIEVE IT WILL HAPPEN! I BELIEVE IN GOD AND I BELIEVE IN JESUS! WILL WE BE ALIVE TO SEE THIS TRUE GOOD OVER TRUE EVIL TAKE PLACE! HOPEFULLY, WE ARE AND WE WILL WITNESS THE MIRACLE OF ALL MIRACLES! TRUE GOOD TRIUMPHING OVER TRUE EVIL! THE OTHER QUESTION IS WHAT SIDE WILL YOU CHOOSE CONTROL/COLLECTIVISM OR FREEDOM/INDIVIDUALISM? I HAVE NEVER BEEN MUCH OF A CONFORMIST SO MY CHOICE IS CLEAR! LET US REMEMBER AND NEVER FORGET THE WISE WORDS OF GEORGE WASHINGTON The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments.
      LET US SUBMIT TO THEIR CONTROL/COLLECTIVSM, NO LONGER!

  • john larry

    Bob, your experience and wisdom is very apparent. I doubt, in general, the american people will listen until it is too late. The election of our new president is an example. There is so many lies and distortion by our politians. I truly believe, that our president is not for america, but represents some foreign entity; ie standing before the national athamen with his hands at his side. Health care, knowing that the passage of this and the multi trillion dollare cost will break the us economy. So many distortions and so much blantant hypocity.

    • DaveH

      It is much easier for most people to Hope and Dream than to accept the reality that success depends on hard work, education, and sacrifice.

      • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

        And what have you had to sacrifice? Some of your inherited money you made from pumping and dumping stocks or gold?

        • Joe H.

          Bruce Allen,
          No, time away from my family, time away from my favorite past times, a good strong back, hands that didn’t ache constantly, lungs of a thirty year old from welding, and the freedom of not having to listen to people like you gripe about how hard they have to work when they drink, smoke, hang out in the bars and wonder why they can’t get ahead!!! I did most of my getting ahead while you were still filling your diapers!!! So go gripe to some of your like minded friends, maybe they will listen and feel sorry for you!!!

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Bruce is a munchkin, dont let him bother you. Anyone that reads his posts in these threads knows the guy has low self esteem, and when you dont like yourself, you cant like anybody else. This is what is eating Bruce. If he could ever see his way out of the liberal democratic think tank of following blindly these anti American left wing liberal pacifist appeasers, Bruce might straiten out. But for now he has his donkey blinders on, and he hates himself and hates his life, and thats understandable considering where he is at. He needs to come out of their black closet and into the light of life, and see its not as bad as they on the left portray it to be. But Bruce you see, has willingly and knowingly made himself a victim of them. Is hard for him to get out of it and see the truth, when totally wrapped up in this dark liberalism that consumes him.

          • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

            Now that I extracted that little morsel of information…

            The question still begs, why in the hell would a working class man defend this kind of rich white guy with inherited money philosophy?

            Whatever money you made during your life will be taken, not by the government, but by the private health industry. I’ve seen this happen twice already, in my life to republican friends of mine. Which I’m sure you’ve already noticed. If you’re spending the kind of money that I think you are on health care, why the hell are you fighting against real measures to cut costs and force competition? You think that what this industry is charging is the result of “free market.” Free markets don’t work in monopolies. If I control all the property in the game of monopoly, I set the price to “whatever I wilst.” You’re seriously Ok with that?

            It’s Ok to be proud of one’s accomplishments, but don’t get all cocky just because the health industry hasn’t depleted your savings yet, and scream at everyone else who has been cleaned out by this system, calling them sissy and weak liberals that don’t want to work. When the time comes when you need medical treatment and you go bankrupt from it, You’ll be shouting for a public option just like everyone else.

            And for those sick folks making obscene profits and making half the country go bankrupt, just because they can, your time is at an end, one way or another. By law, or by public force. When the time comes, You’re gonna see who the REAL munchkins are… I dare them to not pass a public option…

          • Rod James

            To Booberoni, There ya go again!! Playing phychiatrist commenting on his self asteem!!(I know you are not one)Not only that you pretend to speak for him!! You must be a MIND READER too!! Hey stop posting your trash and head to Vegas!You could make a fortune with those mind reading talents.

          • Joe H.

            Bruce,
            No, my money won’t be taken by the health care crowd!!! I have always maintained insurance and we don’t have a lifetime limit on ours like some. All I see is a 10 dollar bill when I see a DR. in his or her office and a 50 dollar charge when I go to the ER. If I am admitted, I pay 10% and that has an out of pocket limit so I don’t pay my life savings out!!! See my wife and I made some good investments in life and she still works so the insurance only costs us about 200 a month!! We own a five bedroom two bath home and are quite comfortably situated!!!

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Im with you Joe. Health care doesnt take my money from me, unless I agree to see them. I pay premiums I can afford, and I too pay 10.00 co pay and thats it. Let this socialized thing go through, and you can kiss that goodbye. It will cost us working folks a lot more, while the deadbeats get a free pass. That is the democrat way.

          • cr747

            True., And there is a lot of dead beats just waiting for a handout.

  • J C

    Central Banking and Centrally planned economies are the 5th plank of the Communist Manifesto, and for damned good reason too. It gives the government the power to pull money out of thin air and hand the bill to taxpayers with zero accountibility. They can turn the economy on and they can turn it off. There is also no reason to save anymore as your money will be worthless when you need it. Another form of control – starve the old people who can no longer work slowly to death. The whole thing is so unbelievably evil I’m surprised there hasn’t been a revolution….yet.

  • George

    Americas ONLY hope: 2 Chronicles 7:14 (New International Version)

    14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

    • Sam Anderer

      Concerning 2Chronicles 7:14

      This is very true. People need to realize exactly what the word “sin” means. It is disobedience to the covenant agreed to at Mt. Sinai. Only the ordinances concerning animal sacrifice were “nailed” to the cross, as Christ became the ultimate sacrifice. God’s laws, statutes, and judgments are still in force. We should be administering His laws. If all had been done away with we couldn’t need grace.

      We need, as a nation and individuals to get down on our knees and ask His forgiveness for our disobedience and ask Him to heal our land.

      Sam Anderer
      A Biblical Constitutionalist

      • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

        So then, where in the bible does it say “thou shalt not care whether or not your neighbor can afford health insurance.” or “if one wants healthcare, one must spend their life savings for one day of it.” OR my favorite:

        “Give thy CEO an amount exceeding 10000 times what the average employee makes and put them in my image, the CEO and god allmighty are one in the same.”

        Where does it say this? And mostly, why are you guys defending this stuff?

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          It states Bruce, that we the church, which if you dont know, the church is the body of believers of Jesus Christ, we are the ones who are supposed to take care of the poor and give to those in need. Its not the governments job. The government should take care of our national sovereignty, keep us safe. Employ the police force and fire departments, and make sure the cities are safe, and lights are on the streets, and things like that. Its not their business to take my money, and give it to some guy sitting on a porch all day drinking 40′s and smoking cigarettes. No, its not supposed to be that way Bruce. If you feel the need, hey, right on brother, go give those guys some cash right now so they can buy some more bottles and smokes, and go home and wonder if you really helped someone. You see, just giving money isnt the answer Bruce. Deciphering whether it is being appropriately spent should be in the equation. Was it given by a cheerful giver? You see, God loves a cheerful giver. We are blessed when we cheerfully give. But when it is forcefully taken from us, and given to those who are not deserving, blessings arent happening Bruce. No, someone is taking advantage of things, and I dont really think that makes God smile, do you? Do you? When the government gets involved in this, you see mass amount of people making a living not working, but living on free handouts, while at the same time, you see people totally deserving of help, and the government wont help them because they dont meet a certain criteria. The government should not be involved with this, it is a function that the church is charged with taking care of the poor. Thats how it is.

          • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

            You’re totally off here. Just because someone can’t afford health insurance, doesn’t mean they are poor. A man making 40k annually, who doesn’t drink, smoke or sniff glue cannot afford real coverage for his family. The church is dependent on charity, so the amount available will most likely not be enough to pay all the big pharma bills, $300 for a 30 day supply of antibiotic. The industry just can’t twist itself out of having to be accountable anymore.

          • Joe H.

            Bruce,
            no, it doesn’t say we shouldn’t care. It also doesn’t say the government should steal our money in the form of taxes and give to worthless non-producing lazy good for nothings that are able to work and choose not to either!!! I have a kid that is handicapped and I don’t ask you to take care of him! Although if you had a kid like that, I wouldn’t mind my tax money going to take care of him as he is unable to work and will never be able to work!!! See the difference? You are able to work and if you choose not to then that is your problem not mine, DaveHs, berberonis or anyone Else’s!!! Get it?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            No Bruce, your caught in your own deception here. See, Im one of those guys that make just over 40, like 46 grand, and I pay for insurance for my 2 kids, myself and my wife, and Im happy about it, because its affordable at 60 bucks a week. 10.00 co pays. 5.00 prescriptions. Hey, I like it. So you see, your the one that doesnt know what he is talking about, because I do exactly what you say cant be done, and quite easily, so I really dont know where you get your info from. Maybe the liberal news media?

      • James

        Sam A., I would just add (1 John 5:16): “If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death; I do not say that he shall pray for it.” Thus, sins that are capital offenses were not supposed to be forgiven in this life, for obvious reasons.

  • Biresh

    A brilliant article. The concerns expressed on the diminishing value of paper money are apt. Can we return to the barter system? should we transact in gold or silver coins? The answers are complex. More than Government it is corporate america or rather a mix of both which is responsible for this sorry state of affairs.

    • DaveH

      No, it is Government more than Corporate America. Big Government is the problem, not the solution. If that isn’t true, somebody needs to explain to me how things were fine 70 years ago, and now with 70 years of Government growth we have this.

      • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

        Things were fine during the great depression? Maybe your family was… Living off the inherited millions from their southern slave plantation…

        • Joe H.

          bruce,
          after reconstruction, there were very few plantations that had the money to leave inheritances!!!

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          So those southern plantation owners were evil because they worked hard and became successful, is that right Bruce? Or are they just evil because they had money? And the slavery part, if that is your beef, slavery was started by blacks in Africa, owning other blacks, and sold them to white people. And thats in the past, those guys are dead, so dont try to blame that on me. Its time to move on allready, isnt it? So easy to be the victim.

      • Normal Guy

        Dave H

        So the big oil companies, big tobacco, the medical corporations, banks, power companies, HMO’s, the chemical producers, maybe the “robber barons” of the late 19th century, are the guys that we should allow to operate carte blanche. After all they will only give us what we want and the market will contain any potential negatives through the invisible hand and we will all be better served. You can’t possibly believe that?

        Free markets don’t always produce the result you want, the more powerful the corporation the more ability it has to distort and frame the market. The state of news reporting is a good example. Take Fox News, they cater to the lowest common denominator for ratings. The quality of reporting today is not what it was and the future is likely to get worse before it gets better. It is like asking a child what they want for dinner, vegetables or cookies and ice cream. Sometimes what we need is the less easy less popular option than what we want. News should involve some level of rigueur, some degree of verification, now we get the oreo cookie, empty calories.

        • Joe H.

          normal Guy,
          OH YES, give me ten times the amount of Tiger that Fox reported like CBS, NBC, ABC did!!!! The heck with the economy give me more of Tiger, Oprah, and all the other nonsense!!! Forget about the outright lies the gorbull warming group told they aren’t important, give me more fluff!!!!!

          • Normal Guy

            Joe H

            Something that we can agree on.
            The media is feeding us junk, the free hand has created something that is no longer news just tabloid garbage. All the major news providers are spending less on investigative journalism and more on celeb scandals because it is more profitable. We need better reporting but we don’t get it.

        • James

          Normal Gut, are you saying “Audit the Fed” is in order?

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Yes they do, they really do. If you dont like their products, please, dont buy them. They will sink real fast, like GM and Chrysler, and barring some jerk coming around and giving them billions of other peoples dollars, they will be gone and out of business, like I said, unless government gets in the way, then you have just taken the free market out of it, when certain companies are given government advantages. You really dont see that? Unbelievable

  • E

    To quote you,
    ‘Prices of labor and craftsmen escalate beyond all reason when there is never enough money. Service repairmen charge like medical doctors.’
    Here’s a greater question. What gave them, what gives them (the medical profession as a whole) the right? Least of all the right to do just that now, in theoretically normal times? Life and health, the knowledge and power to heal the ill could be in their hands. What, other than a cartel founded by goon squads, gives them the right to charge any more than an honest auto mechanic?

    • E

      Other than that comment, I have to say you were straight on with this article. I would like to hear some more of the historical sources cited, but then that would be more for a college term paper than something published for the casual afternoon reader.

    • American Citizen

      To be a doctor with your own practice, there are expenses that have to be met. It has to be run by a business. The expenses are the same, salaries, insurances, SS, unemployment taxes, office materials, etc., not to mention enough for him/her to live on. All the doctors I know who live around here do not live lavishly. They have modest homes, a family, drive older cars, etc. They also contribute to their churches, schools, and other charities when asked.

      • American Citizen

        I forgot to add the loans they had to take out while in Medical School. They add up to quite a bit. How do I know all this? We have a son-in-law who is a chiropractor. He’s in the process of buying his own practice. That also takes a heap of money.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          According to a few on this thread, he is an evil white guy that inherited money, well he will be to them once he gets his business going, and his hard work and perseverance pay off. Isnt that a shame that there are some who are going to hate on him, just because he become successful? Its just not right, but welcome to the American left.

      • DaveH

        For anybody who would like to know more about money:
        http://mises.org/books/origins_of_money.pdf

      • Bill

        Screw the American people– Thanks to Nixon for removing the Gold Standard.
        And lets not forget Heny kiss-ass-enger for backing paper money in Commodities.
        A real low life ********* there.
        Also, ABOLISH THE FED BANK ILLEGAL UNDER THE CONSTITUTION.
        Throw Bernake out on his stupid ass.
        He is playing God with the economy bringing us to the brink.
        Finally stand up and protest. Wall street needs it’s balls kicked in.
        Shut down the NYMEX and CBOE. GREED FACTORY.
        Nothing but lies and manipulation.
        Finally, bring back all of our manufacturing from overseas.
        Screw China. Sad day in America when you buy a U.S. flag and the wrapper says made in CHINA???

        • Joe H.

          Bill,
          To that last sentence I give a resounding AMEN!!!!!!

    • Joe H.

      E,
      In most cases what a good mechanic does won’t cost you your life. In some cases yes. A bad Dr. will in most cases cost you your life. Second if a mechanic makes a non-lethal mistake it will result in a lawsuit of less than 30,000 dollars, if a Dr. makes a non-lethal mistake it could result in a lawsuit in the millions!!! See the difference?

  • myrton woolen

    it is not nothing it is about the billioneers and a half the politians taking over the goverment;just like it about power between repl parties or democrates hows going to run this country and scare people in beleiving and nothing more than a way to raise taxes so the politians can swindle it out into different countries how come you think they wanta be a heatlh care provider take a close look at the bankupt medicare alot of money for politians to spend it just like a health care plan they will gobble up that too and you will be stuck with a big hosp & dr bill just like the edderly are doing right now ask someone over 65 and see what medicare did not pay goverment medicare

    • American Citizen

      It’s not just what Medicare doesn’t pay, but what you pay in premiums. For the two of us together, it costs us at least $7200 in premiums, and that doesn’t include deductibles, some bills the doctors and hospitals send, and co-pays. Congress is lying through its collective teeth to say it will lower health care costs. We will all end up paying more.

      • Joe H.

        American citizen,
        What do you think is going to happen when there are cuts in excess of 500 billion and they add all the people that are 55 years old as they are talking??

      • Rod James

        Beberoni,Wrong! Inflation started getting out of control with Henry Paulson presenting congress with a 700 page proposal (giving them an hour to read it)of a 700 billion dollar bailout and stimulus package. Added to the cost of the war it is the begining of the BLEEDING red ink. It doesn’t help that the US spends 1.8 dollars to 1 dollar in the difference of imports to exports. It is a recipe for economic disaster that will soon show its even uglier head in 2010.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          That indeed is part of it, no doubt. All politicians, all the time. Its probably because they are all lawyers, and money is irrelevant to them. They live in a world of so many loopholes, they have lost sight of reality, and its all a game to them, with our money. They do their damage, then they are out of office, and then blame the next guy, when pretty much, they all contributed to it, because instead of representing us the people that they were elected to represent, they represented themselves into padding their bank accounts for their futures, and they didnt care about us. Lawyers. Thats how they are.

          • Rod James

            Wow! I agree with you on this!

  • Void1972

    When everyone tells you to buy gold, invest heavily in ammo!

  • Sam Anderer

    Bob,

    Over all, a very good article. Unfortunately, as with the majority of articles on money creation, inflation and government spending, Federal Reserve and Government are used interchangeably. They are not one and the same. Also, no one mentions that the interest is never created.

    Question, as food for thought: If you had the authority, the power, and the ability to create all the money you need for expenditures, would you ever be broke? I realize the Constitution prohibits the government, treasury from lending, creating currency. Upon understanding more about Hamilton, I realize why he encouraged this restriction. He wanted a central bank as he had ties to the Bank of England. The government would have to borrow money, currency. Currency is lent into existence instead of SPENT into existence.

    Now, the interest charged is the true culprit, cause of inflation.
    Not even the Austrian view of economics mentions this.

    Check out information on the Channel Islands of Jersey and Gurnsey.

    Also highly recommend the book, DEBT VIRUS by Dr. Jacques S. Jaikaran, an intriguing read.

    Then there is the booklet Economic Solutions by Peter Kershaw. This gives a lot of background information on the major shareholders (Class “A” stock) of the Federal Reserve Bank System, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergers and the IRS. Both are available on Amazon.com

    Happy research
    Sam Anderer
    Biblical Constitutionalist

    • gmiller

      Where does the constitution prohibit creation of currency? On the contrcary, it MANDATES it. We are in vio,ation of the constitution.

  • American Citizen

    It doesn’t matter what we use for money, it’s the people using/abusing it that are the problem. The biggest problem is the government now making our money/investments almost worthless. Time for that bloodless revolution known as the ballot box.

  • will

    First of all it is written that our forfathers shot down the idea of a central bank in this country twice, because of the havoc that the powerfull European central banks have caused throughout European history. Central banks do not like to have a currancy that is backed by gold or something of intrinsic value, because of the accountability factor, and because it inhibits their ability to create money out of thin air, they can’t have that. They have to print & loan, print & loan, without a gold standard the way was cleard to do just that therefore Nixon, and an economic based dollar was born, the idea of paper as being something of value can only be because it is back by some thing of value “gold”. Since before Jesus Christ walked this earth gold has been king of medium exchange, no gold standard no accountability, and therafter inflation has since been a constant concern. The dollar is now floating. This country used to “spend” money into circulation prior to 1913 , after the sell out to the banking powers our country borrowes money into circulation via our treasurey to the central bank to loan to our country (they do paid for the paper], You and I pay back the loans our country owes,- therefore the income tax – and since only the “principle’ is printed when money is lent or borrowed throughout this country and the world,- – But the “principle and interest” has to be payed back, it is absolutly IMPOSSIBLE to pay off any national debt since the “interest” was never printed to pay the debt off, again, only! the “principle” was printed! all the money in circulation would be sucked out of the economy if you could pay off the debt! we live in a controlled economy not a free market of supply and demand {as we once did} because of a “central bank”. Our Founding Fathers left that rotten tyrenical old world and learned what not to do with a new country, “Brilliant Men” it’d be nice to get it back and keep it.p.s. If the constitution says only congress has the power to coin and print money how come were broke ?

  • http://msnhotmail.com&yahoo pilgrim1776

    Normal Guy is absolutely correct. However, the only real basis of wealth is the labor of each individual. Therefore, barter is the best way to conduct business. It would certainly eliminate all of the ‘want and take’ members of a society.
    The question then arises, how do we manage when some individuals do not have anything to barter? They may have excellent labor potential but there is nothing for them to create and produce their labor.
    What would have been the intrinsic value of a medium of exchange if there were no gold or silver; or any other rare commodity?
    Therefore, if food clothing and shelter are the products of labor and it therefore stands to reason that all manufactured items are products of labor, how does the first manufacturer institute his manufacturing enterprise?

  • Pauls Treur

    I’m way behind the rest of you – I need to know what the H–L a Biblical Constitionalist is.

  • home boy

    here’s the problem. the government system we have is so corrupt and so arrogant that unless you destroy it you will never solve our problems. you can change all the house members you want to and it will still be corrupt. your vote means jack. look how the house is talking to you today. they don’t care what you think . they only want the power. the soon to be ex governor of new jersey spent over $30 million of his own money for his reelection. what does that tell you . the job pays around 300k. the power is so great he is willing to do anything to get it. this system is going to fail sooner than later so get ready for the worst ride you will ever have.

  • gregg

    The whole Fed. Reserve system and concept is a perversion of the common good. They invent ridiculous hypotheses like “too big to fail”, “save the economy from the precipice”, “prevent inflation and allow for economic growth”. It’s all baloney and fraud. It’s a system to control money with the power and ultimate goal to benefit the elite banking and ruling class, in other words the slime on Wall Street. Why else do all these former Fed. Reserve employees wind up in plum positions of huge banks?? It’s not because they cared about the common good, but rather because they promoted the good of banking elitists at the expense of Americans.

  • Brian H

    Opponents of interest, whether Islamic or otherwise, are simply liars.

    Would you lend me money on the same terms to be repaid 4 years from now as for repayment 4 months from now? Let’s even imagine a world with zero inflation. Would you lend money to be repaid years in the future for the same as for repayment days or weeks in the future?

    Money/capital does not “grow” over time simply because of inflation. It enables and leverages efforts and production which could not otherwise happen. The borrower bets he can add more value to the borrowed sum with his labor than the lender charges. Period. The lender, actually, is betting the same thing, because that is what will enable full payment of both principal and interest on the loan.

  • Rich

    Normal,

    Sorry I have not responded, but it is not ignorance is bliss on my part but calling bullshit when I see it, which is what you’re spewing. So are most of the so called educated economics people you are lovingly quoting. They learn only from nothing, and never from history. Germany collapsed economically and tried to monetize their debt, the might USSR did the same. Perhaps you should learn a bit from the history of economy before you begin quoting people that have been qrong close to 90% of the time in recent decades. See I do study I just know how to speak the language of the common man. I work in technology also, I progem Internet backbone and customer premise equipment for VoIP and Data services, so I know a bit about the old ID10T error and the BKC problems, which unfortunately are the same people that try to act all intelligent. Boils down to if you can’t explain in simple terms you don’t understand it yourself and you are wrong, period.

    • Rich

      On common sense, yes it is common sense if you have a balance of 0 then your output should not exceed the input. What does that mean simply If you have nothing you spend nothing until you have something.

      You think all these countries are going to help us monetize our debt forever? Nope, they will recall the debt. You think the dollar is going to remain the worlds reserve much longer? Nope, they have begun changing that also. You can keep listening to the morons that said that we should rescind the law passed in the early 1900′s making it illegal to purchase insurance against the failure or success of someone else’s business which led to the failings of some of our larger financial (not all, not even close to all) institutions and thus made it so that the government could take over, and if you honestly think they will ever willingly get out you’re not well read on history there either, ever heard of a little thing called Railroads the government is in those also and has been for decades. You live in you’re ‘I am completely educated’ kool-aid drinking world. Hell you probably think that the global cooling scare of the 70s was real and the global warming scare of the 90s, now it’s Climate Change, no crap it has been going on since well before us cave men with cars hit the planet.

  • mightymars

    simple is not allowing others to control our lives. the constitution gives the individual freedom. fiats take that control out of the hands of the individual.

  • Myron / thinker70

    WHEW; I read all 200+ responses and don’t know whether to laugh or cry, laugh at some of the ludicrous. inane, totally clueless comments, or CRY at the deceived, blindly patriotic defenses like “normal guy” which I guess he is, because probably 95% of citizens have bought the establishments controlling camouflage that HIDES their rape, theft and pillage of the average working man.

    I can not possibly go through and pick out all the insightful comments to praise and expose the fallacy of those happy with the status quo.

    What I would draw to the attention of the “Bible Thumpers” is that the Bible requires “just weights and measures” and CLEARLY shows that ONLY specific weights of gold and silver are considered MONEY, BOTH requirements to prevent cheating. The history of people doing so through clipping coins, coating cheap metals with a thin layer of silver or gold, substituting paper is thousands of years old. The Bible also is clear that “the borrower is servant to the lender” so if you go along with the present system and BORROW DEBT money then you are by definition a “Debt Slave” plus you have REJECTED, (as Israel did) the rule of your Creator who stipulates HOW we should deal with our fellow man, and HE also requires a just and livable wage, not taking advantage of other people unfairly.

    A couple relevant points, several people have pointed out that the INTEREST is never created and fiat currencies do require the payment of interest so it is mathematically impossible for such a pyramid system to survive, so congratulations for that insight, you are on the right trail.

    BARTER is impractical, has not and can not work in a complex society for more than a small percentage of transactions. We DO need HONEST MONEY with intrinsic value (unless we find a way to do away with greed and self-serving human nature) and gold and silver served that purpose admirably for thousands of years. My essay below I believe ANSWERS many of the questions that have been raised.

    Here is my contribution to the discussion, an essay I recently wrote based on 50 years of research into the origin and operation of the Federal Reserve, fractional reserve/fiat currency system even though I
    am Canadian where our bankers and politicians have thankfully been more responsible.

    FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING DILEMMAMonday, December 7, 2009 5:40 PM
    From: This sender is DomainKeys verified”MYRON MARTIN” View contact details
    To: “Myron Martin”
    The “establishments” position, (politicians and bankers), is basically that “gold is a barbarous relic” and has no place in a modern economy or monetary system!

    I would agree IF greed were not a part of basic universal human nature and ALL politicians and bankers were scrupulously honest and always acted in the best interests of the citizens of the nation they serve.

    HOWEVER, the above being far from reality we NEED “checks and balances” that PREVENT excess money creation, a function that a gold standard performed quite admirably over the centuries because it can not be created by fiat and has had intrinsic value (preserving purchasing power) for 6000 years at least.

    Ideally our money supply should be “equal to and determined by the production of the country” and brought into existence as a CREDIT instead of a DEBT as at present.

    HOW and WHY as a credit you might ask: simple explanation, view a country as a corporation and its citizens as shareholders OWNING the natural resources of the country from which, with ADDED HUMAN LABOR all true wealth eventually comes.

    WHY should we pay perpetual INTEREST to a group of self appointed bankers who connived to create a MONOPOLY (supposedly illegal) that effectively gives them a perpetual share of all the wealth created by the labor of all human beings for nothing more than printing numbers on pretty pieces of paper?

    With that as a working hypothesis we can then postulate that “anything that is physically possible, and desirable, (for the benefit if humanity) CAN and should be made financially possible” which generates a logical question! If we have the necessary natural resources and skilled human beings willing and able to work to turn them into ANYTHING that is of benefit to society, WHY should there EVER be a question of affordability (lack of money)?

    What is it that makes a dollar bill good? ANSWER by the establishment would be confidence in the backing of the government as representative of all the people! In REALTY however, what the bankers rely on is the TAXING POWER of GOVERNMENT, and their Internal Revenue Service to ENFORCE the collection of their INTEREST through the Income Tax Act! Given the PERFORMANCE of the U.S. government in particular over the past decades, only a FOOL would have any confidence left in government or bankers, given the absolute MESS they have combined to make of our economy, the more logical conclusion being that our present system is a “CON GAME” from the get go!

    What happened in 1913 is that the International Bankers conned the politicians through subterfuge and trickery into passing the Federal Reserve Act that gave THEM the power to create our money supply in a way that has ENSLAVED the entire world through interest that ACCUMULATES as DEBT at all levels of society, from the individual, then multiple levels of government as well as layers of corporations.

    Governments and corporations do NOT pay the interest, ultimately it is passed on to the individual taxpayers in the form of taxes and the price of the goods and services we must buy! We end up PAYING IT ALL as an ever increasing debt load FAR exceeds any possible increase in income for the majority of workers. Witness the fact that my father worked a factory job for as little as 25c an hour, bought a car and a house and raised a family on that one income where many people now have difficulty living on TWO incomes along with all the social consequences of mother no longer being home to take care of the family.

    The one FACT that politicians and bankers evidently do not get, (basically just being deceived pawns in the game) is that a DEBT based interest bearing system MUST like any pyramid scheme, eventually SELF-DESTRUCT, as it is now doing!

    WHY YOU ASK, because “every bank loan is a new creation of money and when it is paid back it ceases to exist” testimony of Graham Towers Governor of the Bank of Canada before a Commons Committee in 1939! This means that the more loans that are made AT INTEREST, using a 25yr amortized mortgage as an example, as much as DOUBLE the amount of money is taken out of the system (CANCELLED) as was originally created.

    What this means on a practical level is there must be an EXPONENTIALLY increasing number of new loans to allow an economy to function with sufficient specie in circulation to 1) pay the interest demanded by the total debt pyramid that keeps growing at all levels, and 2) sufficient to also continue to conduct all necessary commerce in an expanding economy! If you think about this deeply enough there is only one logical conclusion, the Federal Reserve Act was either by accident or design the mother of all Ponzi schemes.

    Check the dictionary definition of a “Ponzi scheme” and then reread the FACTS presented until you “GET IT”! Our fiat currency, fractional reserve banking system is imploding because there is no other mathematical possibility. No amount of pump priming, stimulus packages, slight of hand accounting, government intervention, lies and coercion to “borrow and spend” can SAVE a badly flawed system. The problem is STRUCTURAL and must be changed to produce an HONEST non-manipulative monetary system people CAN TRUST and believe in.

    Even with the current effectively ZERO interest rates the collective levels of debt can no longer be serviced, let alone the total debts ever being paid off in the lifetimes of our children or even grandchildren! The consequences of CONTINUING such a flawed and enslaving system is the complete breakdown of our civilization into utter chaos and probable dictatorship

  • John Gibson

    Welcome to Babylon 2010!

    • Bob Parker

      John,

      You are absolutely right! We are living in the time of the “Whore of Babylon” spoke of in the “Word of God”! This nation is also the “Image of the Beast”! Our government is no different than the government of “Ancient Rome”! Roman authority rose up in power, lived rich lives while oppressing the people. Also, the Romans twisted Gods word to suit their own lusts. It is sad that most Americans admire Ancient Rome and are actually living the ways of Rome and the Babylonians. Our constitution is adopted from the Roman constitution! It did not work for them, so common sense should tell us that it will not work for us! Repentance will be the only escape from Gods wrath upon this nation! Man has thought to be their own gods, or the so-called “self made man”, denying God and the “Gospel of Jesus Christ”! There is so much more to be said about this, and in due time it will be said, but for now John I will end with this much said. May God bless you & keep you!

  • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

    His argument is trying to do good here by saying stop rewarding people with “something for nothing.” and “work ethic.” But his solution to using other forms of material crap, and quite possibly to help pump up the price of gold, is ingenuine.

    Just remember what I said about the boy who cried wolf. That story is the essence of the current republican party.

    The world is full of other people trying to get by who don’t come from a rich victorian white family, schooling at harvard, and membership to a rich guy with inherited money golf course. Please be more considerate for the guys actually doing the real work the country needs to survive.

  • VMOFDAYTON

    Everyone has been going back and forth about this subject for over EIGHTY YEARS!!! Those of us who want the “old” monetary system back (gold/silver currency) have allowed a bunch of educated idiots keep us from what should have been done a long time ago. They have used the Hegelian Dialect against us. So, do the following things: 1. Get out those phone books and look up all the local bank addresses. 2. Find out the business name and the owners/officers of the local banks through the States’ Secretary of State office. 3. Do a cross check of their names through the county uniform commercial code office, county property records such as taxes or the recorders office. 4. Get out those M14′s and M1 Garands AND LET THE SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST/MARXISTS (or whatever they want to call themselves) DIE A RED COAT TRAITORS DEATH!!! I am in my late thirties and do not understand why the older generations of men have not already done this. You all grew up when this was the greatest economic/military power (Republic) ever known to man. Shame on all of you for sitting on your butts watching television for fifty plus years!!!

  • DaveH

    Crying Wolf? Surely you are kidding. We have the Health Care Scare. We have the Global Warming Scare. Both involve major portions of our economy, and both are being promulgated by the Democrats.
    Talk about crying wolf.

  • Joe H.

    Hey Bruce,
    you mean the Harvard that O-man supposedly went to??? I got news for you porker, I didn’t come from any “rich Victorian neighborhood!!” I spent my time in Viet Nam and went to college on the GI bill!!! I earned every cent of it too!!! Where was your hero in the conflicts we’ve been in? He didn’t earn a bit of his education! It was given to him!!!

  • ONTIME

    When I read Rand’s Atlas Shrugged many years ago, I thought it was a bit far fetched but as we now know it was a speculation which came to past and we are now in the throws. It was entertaining at the time not exactly a deep thinker novel but there is certainly a goodly point to what was said and victimization by corrupting government will make a nation bankrupt itself on the premise that it was morally defunct and lacked pricipal and discipline. We are in a period of flux and very close to allowing our long standing Constitution to be discarded by a ideaology whose ways have been a historical failure and based on states need and not man’s aspiration of the pursuit of freedom.

    This government is now operating on a over extension of credit and paying a exhorbitant interest rate that will irritate the lenders who prop us up to eventually do something irrational. The inability to recover a debt and the inappropriate actions being exhibited by the borrower will give alarm and then cause for the lender to engage in actions that may lead to a open conflict. We as the borrower, debtor nation will be in serious jeopardy to survive and face possible self implosion, we may become extinct or a third nation overnight.

  • Wayne Fengya

    History tells us that the Chinese and Germans both tried to solve their problems by printing more paper money. They both failed.

  • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

    There are two predominant attitudes in our country right now…

    Number one:

    You have a group of baby boomers, mainly folks over the age of 45, who are extremely proud and cocky, almost to the point of delusion about their occupation or what they have achieved with themselves. The majority of these folks have inherited fortunes passed down from their fathers generation and have never really known struggle, and often, real work. These folks took their inherited fortunes from mommy and daddy, put it into gold or stocks in the 70′s and made more millions off their inherited millions, and now their trying to do it again by pumping and dumping the price of gold. These people will never understand what it means to work your way from the bottom up, because the good life was given to them at birth, and anyone else, be it people that can’t afford health insurance, find a good paying job, are just whiny liberals that don’t like to work. I should also add that their well paying jobs, if they wanted one, were handed down to them by family connections and had nothing to do with being more talented than those that applied for the job without connections. They don’t care about health reform simply because paying 3k a month for health insurance doesn’t matter to them, and would rather fight the issue of health reform on the principle that the government might tax their inherited millions an extra one percent to pay for it. One percent of what they make on pump and dump schemes annually is more than the $3k a month their health insurance company steals from them, so they defend the cheaper option, even if it’s barking mad. Try googling the founding fathers on hereditary succession. As far as I’m concerned, these folks are no different than the nobles of king george, with Inherited titles and lands. The theme here is selfishness, “who cares about dying people that can’t afford health care and other stuff..” Yet, somehow claim to have a firm grasp on morality. The only way these people will understand is when they have to live like 90 percent of the population without inherited wealth.

    Number two:

    This is really a mixture of folks, some middle class, some with broken families, born into the world without a dime and sometimes have no choice but to settle for horrible jobs or no job. Not because they are lazy or want to live off government money, because they simply don’t have another option since they don’t have the resources or connections available to them at birth. These people usually don’t find the stock market too interesting, and would rather be doing real work, with their hands, getting dirty and helping their elderly republican neighbor with the groceries. These people usually don’t quote economist’s when speaking a moral point, rather point out that the majority of economist’s are bankers trying to push a sick and sadistic agenda.

    Get this: Selfishness and greed are not omnipitent forces that are responsible for making the world turn on it’s axis. Human motivations are a mixture of things for the activities they perform on this planet. Sorry to inconvenience anyone.

  • Void1972

    The history of man: real vs liberal
    For those that don’t know about history …. here is a condensed version:
    In the beginning, God created man in his own image. Man had all of the earth and her majesty to enjoy, incredibly beautiful mountains, oceans, forest, rivers and sheep.
    Man was so happy in his everyday of his life. He would awake in the morning to his sheep, kiss her goodbye and enjoy the adventures of a man. If he grew bored of his sheep, he would eat her.
    Every day was exciting for man. Hunting, fishing, skiing, rafting, hiking, and all of the things that man does, but man had a problem! He was happy and God saw this and could not let him be!
    God decided to give the man a rule he knew man could not live by. God said “everything on this beautiful planet I created is yours to enjoy, but never eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge”.
    Man looked at God with that dumb deer in the headlight look we all know and said “no problem”! Man went on for thousands of years happy as Obama wasting tax payer’s money, living his dream.
    God saw man was way too happy and dumber then every creature he created, so he ripped out one of his ribs and created women to educate him. Man experienced pain for the first time, but not the last. As man sat there, in total agony, looking at his other half, God explained to them both about enjoying every beautiful thing about his creation and about avoiding the tree of knowledge. “All of this is yours women, but do not eat from the tree of knowledge”!
    Women looked at God in disgust,” How dare he tell me what to do”! “All of you men are alike”! The moment God left, she ran to the tree and devoured all of the fruit on it. Sitting there with her extremely expanded belly man looked at her with his dumb look and said, “You look fat” and decided to go back to his sheep. All hell broke loose.
    Women chased man for thousands of miles trying to kill him, destroying everything man had worked for, for hell hath no fury like a women scorned!
    After thousands of years and man being out of sight, and women going crazy without him, women forgave him. This is where the saying out of sight out mind came from!
    Man and women finally got together and children were created and so the human race began.

    Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter.

    The two most important events in all of history were the invention of beer and the invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer. These were the foundations of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups:

    Liberals and Conservatives.

    Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery. That’s how villages were formed.

    Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to B-B-Q at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as the Conservative movement.

    Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly B-B-Q’s and doing the sewing, fetching, and hair dressing This was the beginning of the Liberal movement.

    Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women. The rest became known as girlie-men. Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy, group hugs, and the concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide the meat and beer that conservatives provided.

    Over the years conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant. Liberals are symbolized by the jackass.

    Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, bean sprouts and French food are standard liberal fare. Another interesting evolutionary side note: most of their women have higher testosterone levels than their men. Most politicians, social workers, personal injury attorneys, child molesters, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals.
    Liberals invented the designated hitter rule because it wasn’t fair to make the pitcher also bat.

    Conservatives drink domestic beer, mostly Budweiser or Stella. They eat red meat and still provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo cowboys, lumberjacks, mechanics, construction workers, firemen, fisherman, medical doctors, police officers, corporate executives, athletes, members of the military, airline pilots and generally anyone who works productively.
    Conservatives who own companies want to hire other conservatives who want to work for a living, but are forced to hire liberals who do little or nothing because they are entitled. When liberals run companies, they also hire other liberals and shun the conservative. They make sick and demented films as they enjoy an orgy of gluttonies and extreme wealth created when the neutered man pays to go see the garbage because his liberal wife demands it.
    Liberals produce little or nothing.
    They like to govern those who produce and decide what to do with the production, take from the producers and give to the lazy ones who are entitled.
    Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America. They crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get more for nothing. That is why unions were created, taking from those who create and produce and giving to those who are told not to produce, and get paid for it, for they are entitled. The union’s main principles are to do as little as possible and get paid the highest for it!
    They are entitled.
    The real man has finally been domesticated by the liberal, but is getting tired of doing all the hard work and paying all the taxes so the liberal can live in luxury.
    We now have TEA(taxed enough already) parties! Sounds very metro-male-ish doesn’t it?
    Man needs once again to gather together and create a new country of our own. This idea started back in the 1700s to escape the European liberal and America was created, but has now been overrun by those who sit in prisons and have the same luxuries as those who work and produce because the liberal tell them they are entitled.
    God loves man, for he created him in his own image. Somewhere along the way some of man mutated into anti-God liberals.
    Let’s lose the political correctness and the liberal anti-American, anti-God philosophy and take back America, for in God WE Trust!!!!!
    Hope you enjoyed this education on mankind and feel free to educate others with these facts………….God Bless America!

  • Bob Parker

    Doesn’t anybody realize where this whole thing is headed? There is such a great division & so much confusion mingled with anger and even hate because of these money issues! Maybe reading the entire book of 1 Timothy (KJV) will help some of you! Cash, gold, silver, any form of money will soon be a thing of the past and the only way to buy or sell will be with the “Mark”, or the “Name of the Beast, or the “Number of his Name”? (Rev. 13:15-18) These kind of disputes over money is paving the road to an alternative to cash, gold, silver, ect.! Microchip implants with each individuals personal information will soon replace any type of money! In this ever increasing world of automation that we now live in that would be a seemingly “fool proof” way to eliminate such things as idenity thief, embezzlements, overdrafts, paperwork, ect.. Just swipe your hand over a scanner or get your forehead scanned and all the information the merchant needs will be recieved. But to accept that solution will keep you from the Kingdom of Heaven! We can fight about it or we can help one another through these perilous times that are at our door! Forget about fighting over whether or not you are a democrat, repubican, liberal, conservative, etc.. Also, check to see what seat is not filled at the U.N.. That’s all I’m gonna say. STUDY THE WORD OF GOD!

  • American Citizen

    The Bible was written by men. Adam ate the apple first and blamed Eve whom he seduced. Men have been blaming women for their problems ever since. Do you think if the Bible had been written by women the events would be recorded differently?
    The problem is, far too many carry their brains in their pants. Tiger Woods is now finding that out as well as a lot of other celebrities. As for politicians, they left theirs in the closet.

  • Joe H.

    Void,
    A-M-E-N!!!!!!!!

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Well Void, I gotta hand it to you, as you have spelled out the evolution of the liberal down to the T. You see, thats the only evolution I believe in. God created us all in his image, perfect, as conservatives. Then evil crept in, and many evolved their way in liberalism, where they didnt have to worry about the truth and facts, nor pay any attention to it. Yep, thats how it is.

  • American Citizen

    But I love your imagination of how it really is.

  • James

    American Citizen, that’s nonsense, the word “apple” isn’t in the Book of Genesis. Paul wrote (2 Cor. 11:3): “But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguild Eve through his subtility, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.” Satan’s seduction of Eve was the original sin, sex between Adam and Eve was commanded by God, to “increase” and multiply.

  • http://www.profiles.yahoo.come_plurilbus_unumIdontwantaRepublicanalternatebill. e_plurilbus_unum

    I work under-the-table and a cashless system would eliminate foreign labor, but it would end free-enterprise and a mans overall liberty.

  • DaveH

    This is an enlightening series of video from Glenn Beck show. I am posting the first of a series of 8. The rest can be accessed easily from the list of videos on the right side of web page. Especially listen to the section on Government salaries near the end of part 1 and continued on part 2:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma7ZQ6zfRmw

  • Rich

    This thread is a bit funny in the begining, Normal tries to state that our system has been based on money for a long time, which is not entirely correct. It was based on money backed by at one point gold and then silver, thereby calling them Gold Certificates and Silver Certificates respectively. What I think Bob is trying to get at is that any money not backed by some physical thing, which the US dollar is not any longer backed, that can or has an intrinsic value to humans (both gold and silver do and have for over 1000 years) is worthless. It leads to immorality through the ‘fast buck’ syndrome which is by definition greed and lust, maybe not sexual lust but lust for something none the less. So by your very arguement Normal you are proving some of Bob’s points. Does that mean we will get to the end of the journey Bob has envisioned? I certainly hope not as it is probably the most extreme one can go, look to countries like China for similar journey’s after WWII. It is one potential path for the US. If we keep voting in the self serving Democrat and Republicans we always have we will eventually continue on the path the Bob has envisioned, though I doubt it will be in any of our life times, but one day we will get to this or something similar, if we allow ourselves to not listen to our gut/instinct whatever you want to call it and continue to listen to people that are completely out for their own interests like Al Gore, Barack Obama, Dick Cheney, and so on. I could have picked more and just about any politician now or recently (within last 30 years or so) and placed them in this list.

  • American Citizen

    Most of us realize the government needs taxes to do its Constitutional duty. But the Federal Government keeps taking over more of the economy and our lives than the Constitution gives it the right to do. That is what has people up in arms. For every program the Feds have in place, the more bureaucrats we have to pay. The Federal Government is already the biggest employer in the country. That’s the only place the government can provide jobs. And we just learned a great number of them make over 6 figures in wages.
    The greatest number of workers in this country work for small businesses. Jobs is the biggest problem in this country, but you’d think the Federal Government politicians think it’s health care. The national debt already has us in the tank. Yet it wants to spend TRILLIONS more. Can you spell bankruptcy?

  • Normal Guy

    Freeloader

  • Joe H.

    Bruce,
    you are so full of BS it isn’t funny. Where do you think most if not all of the Viet Nam vets, Grenada, and even some of the first middle east war vets came from? No strife? No struggle? Are you hallucinating?
    I know a great number of boomers that got what they have by good old honest elbow grease. Of course you wouldn’t know what that is would you? What strife and struggle have you been involved in sonny boy?

  • American Citizen

    You can place the blame for that on the public education most of them get. We all have the same opportunities in this country. But it seems the Federal Government wants to take control of all those opportunities and tell us what we can and can’t do.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    I dont know where you live or whom you associate with, but Im 51, and I know lots of baby boomers, and not a one of them is a millionaires with all these stocks and bonds you reference, and not one of them inherited any money. They all worked in factories all their lives, a few in offices, and now are retired or nearing retirement, but the people you refer to as inherited’s and millionaires, sorry, I dont know anyone like that. Maybe its just your friends are all successful and you resent it, I dont know. But none of the baby boomers around here that I know, and its in the hundreds, none of them are millionaires or have gained a rich inheritance from someone else. They all worked hard for what they have.

  • Joe H.

    Spoken from the biggest group of free loaders in the world….Liberals!!!!

  • Normal Guy

    Joe

    If Unum doesn’t pay taxes, he /she is leeching off everyone who does. That makes him/her a freeloader. Is that concept not clear to you? I have built numerous companies and currently own a restaurant and digital signage company, I employee 30+ people directly and pay for many services from other companies. I am happy to pay taxes and believe passionately in this country. You and the other self centered haters seem to think it is all about you.

    You think that the American system is flawed, I don’t, you think that you are above the nation, I don’t. You seem to think that our government is corrupt and full of conspiracies, I don’t. I love this country and am happy to support it.

    How many government programs do you access? How much do you draw every year from federal and state programs?

  • DaveH

    Everybody should just shut up and accept the destruction of our economy and currency and cash savings because Normal Liberal is happy.
    Such impeccable logic.

  • American Citizen

    I guess you’d be even happier if your taxes go up, which they will. Maybe you can afford for them to, but most of us can’t. Far too many people are working hand to mouth now. You say you are an employer? Do you give your employees a “fair wage”, that is, what the government thinks you should pay them? How many government regulations do you have to follow and how much paper work is involved costing you even more money?

  • Normal Guy

    American Citizen

    I have made a good living my entire life and I believe that I was given that gift from our country. I was able to attend university and have taken the tools I was given there and built my peice of the American Dream.

    Taxes are not exorbident and the regulations are certainly not onerous. I pay all my full time employees well above industry averages as I want to keep them with me. The front of house staff in the restaurant start at ten dollars which is $1.45 above our minimum wage.

    I want the people that work for me to succeed and I want those in my society to have all the opportunities to find success in their lives. I don’t think that an everyman for himself attitude is the way to achieve those things. If we can make our society more stable, healthier, better educated and less dependant of foriegn sources of vital commodities I am all for that.

  • Joe H.

    Normal lib,
    That’s just so much Bull!!! If you indeed wanted the workers to STAY with you as you say, you would pay them a “living wage”. Restaurant work was never meant to be a career, just a job to get by till something better came along!!! That is why my mother is on a small retirement and social security!!! We take care of her otherwise!!! She “retired” from a restaurant and had nothing to retire on except my fathers retirement from a factory!!! Are you telling me that McDonalds is a career? Should people work there and plan to have kids? See, that’s why I’m so different than my dad! I watched him work his fingers raw and retire to keep working and I swore I would never do that and I haven’t!! My kids won’t either. My two daughters will succeed if I have to plant a number nine on em’!

  • denniso

    Normal Guy…good,rational comments. Thanks! These guys basically have no empathy for people who have to struggle for a living,for whatever reason. They think that they are put upon because they have to pay taxes for the betterment of society…they fail to recognize that a healthier society benefits all,including them. I think they are actually selfish and they try to rationalize it w/ a twisted political philosophy. Merry Xmas to all..

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    The liberals create and expand all these social agencies, to support freeloaders everytime they are in office. Allmost all of these people who collect government handouts, do not pay taxes, and those that do they dont amount to much, yet they all continue election after election to vote democrat. Those are the free loaders, the democrat voters.

  • cr747

    Normal Guy, can’t believe you only pay your top staff a measly $10.00 an hour. Is it hard for you to keep help? They can make that at McDonalds. Holy cow, understand why you are so inquiring. Trying to get some tips for more business huh?

  • Normal Guy

    747

    Again you show your ignorance.

    I said I paid my front of house staff a starting wage of $10.00, 1.45 above minimum wage, that is really high for the industry.

    You clearly don’t know anything about the restaurant business, even though you claim to own restaurants. what does BOH stand for? What are standard fixed costs, labour, and food costs? How about gross profit?

    You are not what you claim, which makes you a… Merry Christmas.

  • cr747

    Normal Guy, I can see there’s nothing normal about you. If I offered a new employee, which we hire the very best money can buy for our businesses, and I offered them a measly $10.00 an hour, I would be ashamed to look them in the face during an interview. And for as repairs go, I have my on crews,”not crew,” that takes care of all of my businesses across the nation. They are all salaried employees. They all have a first class ride, and a first class family, with all the benefits money can buy. Have not had any crew members to quit or complain about wages, or working conditions in years. Only some retiring that have been with me and the company for many years. Still have people working that where working when my parents where still running the business. The chain I own even has a retirement plan, medical ins, life ins, and payed vacations, and holidays.
    If $10.00 is all you pay, I bet you have a big turn over in employees.

    Maybe you need to attend one of my seminars I teach across the nation on How To Make A Business Thrive In Bad Times. It’s a three day seminar at a minimal fee that includes lodging, with a free lunch, and a chance to meet some of the top business leaders across the nation. Including yours truly cr747. By the way coffee and sweets included. Also other refreshments available.
    Next seminar will be January 11-12-13 2010 in Hartford, Connecticut.
    If can’t attend that one continue to look into your hometown newspaper for an event close to you. Merry Christmas!!!!!

  • cr747

    Normal Guy, If you pay your FOH,”FRONT OF HOUSE.”$10.00 an hour, then what do you pay your BOH,”BACK OF HOUSE,”employees? $10.50!!!!!!!!

  • American Citizen

    No, the Bible doesn’t mention just what kind of fruit they ate. Oral tradition says it was an apple and that’s why men have an “Adam’s Apple”. It really doesn’t matter what piece of fruit it was, the gist of the story was they disobeyed God and lost Paradise. Thus, now we all have to suffer the “human condition.”

  • Raggs

    I watch Glenn eveyday… Sean Hannity is pretty good as well.
    I was watching O’reilly but it seems he has grown a soft spot on his brain for the political “leaders” term used loosely.

    I do not and never will watch CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC or any other obama worshipping stations. They disgust me! propaganda based solely on lies and corruption…

    I believe if every citizen would spend 1 month watching Glenn it (people) would turn this country back on track

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Just the mentioning of Glenn Beck instills fear into the heart of the liberals, as they cant stand to hear the truth spoken, especially when one expounds on it and proves it like Glenn Beck does. Thats why they hate him, because they hate the truth.

  • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

    It’s really ashame the rich white culture has actually brainwashed part of the working class into believing the government wants to rule your life. The only thing that is being voted on right now in congress, has abosultely nothing to do with, nor will it affect how you see a doctor.

    But yet, it has been spun and warped and you guys eat up the warped and spun version of what they are passing through in congress. It’s too bad you guys can’t put some of that “elbow grease” into coming up with a solution to keeping health costs under control. And don’t just respond with the usual crap about how guys like me are wimpy and need to get a job, or speculate. I have speculated here, but at least I phrase the speculation in the form of a question. And btw, I’ve been around plenty of rich, white folks with inherited money, I know their sadistic views. So this assumption came from real life. It’s not something I just made up. Some of these swine actually think it’s funny that half the country can’t afford health care and dies off. Similiar to the gramma millie statement from the enron trader in the video I posted in another article. Don’t try and tell me that kind of stuff is christian. Anyone with two ears knows it’s not.

  • http://www.pcelementz.com Bruce Allen

    That’s why it’s such a shame that you defend the rich white, guy with inherited money philosophy…

  • American Citizen

    The Federal Government is literally selling us down the river.

  • Normal Guy

    Rich

    You are not quite correct on your definition of money the general simple definition is something like this. Money is something generally accepted as a medium of exchange, a measure of value, or a means of payment.

    The value associated with the “currency” depends on the issuer, be it a bank, a country, a trade group, an individual. The first utilization of money was as a simplification of barter, it goes back at least to the shekel about 3000 BC 1 shekel equalled some specific amount of barley. The reason that gold became a standard for money was that it was rare so hard to fake, and it was durable, it did not corrode so as a store of value it was durable (this bar represents a thousand pounds of barley and it will never rot, so in two years I will be able to get my barley). Paper currency is made difficult to forge for the same reason.

    Your comment that it must be something of intrinsic value is not really accurate. It can be anything that will hold value so that I can exchange my token for goods and services and so that I can trade something of consistent value so that I am not trading Manhattan for a glass beads.

    The statement that any currency that is not backed by some commodity like gold is worthless is just plain silly…take your dollar go to any merchant, bank, service provider and see if it has value. Go to any country and see if they will trade with you. They will. All money is a promise to facilitate an exchange. If the commodity that I chose to utilize is a rare shell (big in the ancient world) and no one recognises the value of my currency then no exchange, if the currency that I hold belongs to a country that is conquered so no government to back the promise, no exchange (confederate dollars). If I have gold and no one is willing to exchange food or medicine for it because there is starvation or plague, no exchange.

    All tokens are promises, so what does any of this have to do with the fast buck or morality? The answer is nothing.

    The simplistic idea that hard commodity backed currency will prevent inflation is just wrong. If the country has a fixed amount of gold then any economic growth will make the gold worth more, so the cost of goods will gop down so that a growing economy will always have deflationary pressure. This means that people hoard and do not invest in the economy because they get a better return holding onto their gold. This means you have a lack of investment, a lack of growth and as a result a weak economy. If you want to borrow money you can’t unless someone wants to lend you there gold, a one for one relationship which makes it almost impossible to borrow to develop new business’ or develop ideas. In the USA back are required to hold 12% (in think it is still 12%) of depositors funds but they can loan the rest, basically producing money through leverage.

    Anyhow, Bob’s whole argument is better framed in a time that has long past, paper money does not lead to immorality. Fiat currencies work, if the distortions that are part of the enormous global economies are well managed the inflation is not a big problem just a natural part of the economic cycle. Sustained low interest rates and reduced taxes when economies are booming (like W and Greenspan’s escapades at the start of this century) will lead to economic dislocation, but commodity backed currencies are not the answer.

  • P. Fitzmorris

    Bruce,

    You say “rich white culture”, what do you mean by white. Are you saying that skin color determines a man’s attitude. I am Irish, and no offense to anyone, but I am not English, Italian, Russian, Polish, Iranian, Spanish, French, or any of these other so called white people. You are doing the same thing to so called “white people”, that “Blacks” accuse others of doing so be mindful.

  • James

    American Citizen, I agree that, unfortunately, tradition has replaced what the bible states. God addressed Satan (Gen. 3:14-15): “And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed…I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed.” That was the ‘original sin’ which God judged by placing hatred between Eve’s seed and Satan’s seed. To Adam (v. 17) God said: “Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree…cursed is the ground for thy sake.”

  • American Citizen

    God helps those who help themselves. He even feeds the birds of the air, but He doesn’t put the seeds in a dish for them. They have to hunt for their food, too. We are here to do His work, He won’t do it for us. He just gives us the strength to do it.

  • cr747

    Bob, if more people would open and read their Bible they would see the condition this country is in. It plainly states where every thing that is going on in this world today is written in the words of the number one selling book ever published.

    To some people it would scare them to death. They are the one’s that need to search deep into their heart, and learn what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ did for us on that old rugged cross.

    May God Bless You, and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!

  • Rod James

    Normal, Good information money is money is money! I think the real question is the whole monetary system and fractional banking. With the lobbied relaxation of banking laws (eg:Glass Steagal),along with securities relaxation (eg: Modern securities whatever its called)the banks along with wall street turned the system into a casino.When Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac went south their realty backed securities were leveraged 100 to one. Interest and compound interest banks thrive on make it a rough situation when the government borrows the bailout and stimulus money from them or The Fed. I read the US is still paying the interest to the banking industry for the depression never mind this new melt down no wonder the presses (or computers) are churning out dollars 24 hours a day!

  • cr747

    Normal Guy, I believe if I where you I would take my toys and go home. You just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper into the hole. You are talking in circles.
    One comment you are talking about one thing and then the next time it is completely backwards. Do you have Alzheimer or something? What you are saying is completely ridiculous, and makes no sense what so ever. I’m beginning to feel sorry for you. Please seek help before you get worse.!!!!!

  • Bob Parker

    That’s exactly right American Citizen!

  • Bob Parker

    The Book of Proverbs should be our Constitution!

  • American Citizen

    How about Frank, Rangel and Dodd who were supposed to oversee those financial entities? President Bush warned Congress they were in trouble and Frank reassured them that all was well. He still refuses to take the blame for the fiasco.

  • Joe H.

    Rod,
    I will say one thing though. While we used silver certificates, every country wanted to do business with us. Now it’s starting to reverse. Some countries are starting to demand other currencies to do business!!!
    So tell me which is best?

  • Joe H.

    P. Fitzmorris,
    If you are a citizen of the U.S. you are an American of Irish ancestry!!!

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    So you really think all white guys got rich inheriting their money? None of them worked a day did they? None of them went to college and got educated did they? None of them worked the family business as a kid from the bottom up and learned it fully did they? You are a piece of work Bruce. And just in case you forgot, 90 percent of the taxes that run this country, are paid by these same rich white guys you so hate. And 90 percent of the jobs in this country are paid for by these same evil rich white guys you hate. Take the log out of your eye Bruce, then you may be able to take the splinter out of your brothers eye.

  • cr747

    Mr. Bruce Allen, Would like to have you accompany me for one month, just to see that it is not all fun and games. I think then that you would see things from a different prospective. I have over four hundred employees. Have had close to six hundred when I took over the family business. Have been able to cut that down to over four hundred.

    I will say this I did make sure all that I let go from employment, I made sure they had a job before they left or I continued to pay some of them till they did find work.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    He was in Kenya getting indoctrinated into Islam.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Of course Frank shot down any investigation into this banking thing. Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelick werent done pillaging the village yet, as they still had a few more million dollar bonus’s to write to their democrat friends.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    They seem to be so intent on giving the working peoples money to those who not only dont work, but refuse to work, and they give money to these third world countries that hate us and march on our government and would throw us to the wolves if they could. Why are we giving money to Russia? Why are we giving money to Iran and Syria? Germany and France? Italy? Somalia and Lebanon? Why? Its stinking insanity man. We give money to countries who are actively seeking our demise, and they use this money against us. What the heck is the matter with our politicians that they are so dumb they dont see what they are doing. They are selling themselves down the road as they are selling us down the road, but the damn lawyer in them is too dumb to see it.

  • denniso

    God forbid!! Pun intended.

  • cr747

    Beberoni, think he’s talking about me. I inherited my families businesses. Truck stops and restaurants all over the United States. I did work in the family business until out of school,and ended up spending 22 years in the service. Was a fighter pilot in Vietnam. Had to take over family business when my parents died. Retired out of the service.
    I own three private 747′s and a fleet of helicopters in Hawaii for sight seeing that my Daughter and Son operate. I did manage to get my Lawyers degree, and have four Law offices in four different states.
    I own a ranch in Texas with cattle, and horses. Get to spend some time there when in the States. My home is in Hawaii, and that is where my wife,”of 28 years,” and I spend most of our free time.
    I would have to say that I have been blessed with a hard working family,and my Dad was a Politician. Grew up with body guards all around,and still have to have them to this day.
    I do know politics is not all fun, and games. The reason being, having to grow up and learn to live with men and women all around you for protection,”24-7″

  • Normal Guy

    747

    Well I was going to stop wasting my time with you morons but you 747 are just too funny. So you are a billionaire, multi business owner, lawyer with three 747’s for private use. It is clear from your brilliant use of exclamation points and capitals, your near grade school level of the use of the language, that you have a legal background – what field by the way?

    You are hysterically funny. So fill me in – how much did the 747’s cost? Which models do you own? You know dopey, there are records of these aircraft. How many do you think are privately held? Who do you think owns them, how many people do you think own multiple aircraft?

    So let’s do a little math shall we Einstein, so at the peak of this family business you had 600 employees in restaurants and truck stops, what do you think a reasonable return per employee is? I know that you don’t have a clue so I will tell you, the restaurant side labour is about 30%, if your net return after taxes is 5% to 6% then you are looking at %15 to 20% return per employee so assuming average income per employee at even as high as $45,000 you net returns if everything rocks is about five million. (you will probably not understand this basic calculation either, maybe ask one of your many accountants)

    747’s cost what a $150 million new decked out ones $300 million. So on net returns of say 5 million annually, you are not capable of this. More likely you are living in a rented trailer near the airport.

  • cr747

    Well Normal Guy, you probably have bit off more than you can chew. First of all I believe a man of your caliber should have stayed out of someone’s business if you didn’t know anything about what goes on. You will see that you are the “moron” for wading in so deep that you can’t see out.
    Why would I want to give, or tell you how much I have invested in my personal business? I would think that would be none of your business. You see you do not know the history of any of my families business. Therefore, continue to wonder how it all come about. My legal background would be nothing else but, business law. I do a lot of legalities for very personal people. Also “nosy,” yes there are records of all things that has a registration number. That goes back to, automobiles, motor cycles, and even campers, etc:
    For the amount privately owned would probably make you quite amazed at who, and how many.
    Einstein,”as you say,” you are way off on all your figures. Maybe a seventh, or eighth grade education? By the way,”Einstein,” some of my employees wake quite a bit more than the $45,000.00 you mentioned.
    First of all you are not aware of how many ,truck stops, and restaurants my family owned. Then again, you might want to go back and read the rest of my comment.
    So, Mr. Normal Guy you need to keep quite, and mind your on business. It is for sure you don’t know near as much as you think you do.
    Also if I lived in a rented trailer near the airport, I would have to move, because I couldn’t stand to live next to you, or anyone of the low IQ you have. By the way if five million was all that I made, you would be right, but that would be completely out of your income range. So you wouldn’t even qualify to live close to where I live.
    Merry Christmas, and have a prosperous New Year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Normal Guy

    747

    Just Like I expected. No explanation, no information.

    If you did not broadcast that you were this enormously wealthy person…

    ….sorry I pulled a muscle laughing….

    …I would not comment. I know lots of wealthy people, you clearly are not. You have about as much credibility as you do scope on the current economic situation. You are a pitiful joke, obnoxious and opinionated, clearly not well educated.

    It’s just a fantasy; it’s not the real thing. You can barely put together a sentence.

  • cr747

    Well, Normal Guy, from reading some of your nonsense on other links that you have made, I would say by your comments that you where a possible high school drop out, and don’t have the ability of someone with a little knowledge of somebody else making a life for themselves that I have been able to achieve with the passing down from three generations of businesses across the nation. So I really don’t see any use of wasting my time on some one as immature, or with such a low self esteem of your self. I will make you an offer. If you are planning on being in Hawaii sometime in the near future, you have got a free sight seeing tour on me. Just e-mail me, and I will see that you and I meet for a laugh on you, mind you. I will treat you to one of the most expensive packages of sight seeing that my Son and Daughter have in service here in Hawaii.

    If you are in Texas anytime soon do the same. I will give you an experience you won’t forget on my cattle, and horse ranch. I or one my guides will take you on a tour of one of the most beautiful ranches in Texas. Remember this is all on me, and won’t cost you a thing. You will be treated with the same respect shown, that I give to top names from out of LA, and yes leaders in Washington.

    December 23,2009 I and my family will all be together in Hawaii for the Christmas holidays until January 4,2010.

    This is something I don’t do very often because of the expense involved, but will treat you to one of the most expensive tours at either place. I usually only offer this to children and adults that have had, or are going through some tragic life and death situation.
    The ball is in your court!!!!!!!

    Retired fighter pilot from the Vietnam era, were I spent 22 years in service for my country. God bless and merry Christmas.

  • cr747

    Normal Guy, I don’t recall saying anything about wealth. If I remembered right, you were the one throwing out all the figures that where brought up. I didn’t bring up any figures. Don’t believe in talking about one’s income.
    By the way you are way out in left field with all your figures. If you don’t know about someone else’s earning power, then I find it best to keep mouth shut.!!!!!!!

  • cr747

    Normal Guy didn’t mean to offend you. I was only defending myself from the harsh comments you where throwing at me. The offer still stands if you would be interested. Naturally I am sure it is hard to swallow a few mis-conceptions that you threw at me, but I am a big guy, and can take whatever you might ridiculed me on. I have no problem being called names,and the absurd statements you made towards me. They don’t bother me at the least. I get a lot more thrown at me in a courtroom when I am defending a client. Harsh words is one of the first things a lawyer learns to deal with.

    Merry Christmas. I am a man of my word!!!!!

  • Rod James

    JoeH, I’m affraid that the kind of system (there are a few) that would be best for America would be one that would require a New Paradigm. This new paradigm is only possible if there is a drastic upheavel in society (eg:WAR,NATURAL DISASTER,HYPER INFLATION,PANDEMIC)that would make them open for a NEW SYSTEM. If we are stuck with the old monetary system it would be a good idea if we the people demanded tighter banking and investment laws.(eg:reinstate Glass Stegall Act )outlaw Lobbyists, take control of the US money system DUMP THE FED.
    Joe, not only are some countries moving away from the US dollar, China has now dumped 800 billion of their US treasury bills for IMF speacial drawing units. China has also petitioned the IMF to make their SDR units a mix of 20% each their Yuan and four other currencies dropping the US dollar alltogether (currently 44% if the SDR value).

  • Bob Parker

    denniso,
    Which god would you have forbid The Almighty God’s word?

  • Normal Guy

    747

    Well my fantasy living friend, how about the name and location of your Hartford seminar. I am sure there must be a web site I can check out to see if I want to attend. I would bet, that I will never see it from you. I have looked at your posts, you bark along with the pack but say absolutely nothing, no information other than to tell us that you have 747’s etc, etc. No information of any kind backing any position just vacuous attacks or cheers for other dim wits.

    I am sorry but you really are a very dim bulb, you state that I am incorrect and contradicting myself but you give no examples, or corrections – I think it is because you aren’t capable of rational thought. Oh and by the way Lawyers don’t – and this is a quote from your post “I do a lot of legalities for very personal people.” – do legalities, that is a noun, lawyers provide legal services, a verb. You are in “business law” specializing in what aspect? M&A, Contract Law – where did you graduate, how long did it take, where did you article, where and when did you join the bar. Oh I love this little gem from your slick legal mind “It is for sure you don’t know near as much as you think you do.” I really find it laughable to be attacked by an unarmed man but it is getting tired.

    You make ridiculous statements regarding “your companies”, you say have 400 employees with truck stops and restaurants across the country, well twenty restaurants employ three to four hundred people so we are not talking about a fortune 500 business are we. Must be a challenge supporting half a billion in 747’s??

    You clearly misunderstand what a starting wage is and seem to think it means that is what I pay my people – here are a few more questions that I know you can’t answer. What category is your restaurant business in? Is the category currently growing or shrinking? What percentage of you expense is labour? What percentage is fixed costs and food. It should only take a day or two for you to look it up – you got BOH in two days, oh that’s a good one what percentage of your labour goes to back of house, a bit more complex as it varies by type.

    You are pretty funny but this indulgence is a waste of my time, the laugh has been good but I really have to get on with some Christmas cheer so time to go. Enjoy your circle J__k with the other dopey hate filled simpletons on this thread. Loose the America hate thing, the country is great and you dopes are not the answer to making it “better”, the system is the best in the history of the world, work within it for the change you think is required – as much as I disagree with libertarianism, I respect Ron Paul for engaging with the system. Have a nice Christmas.

  • cr747

    Normal Guy, I to am a busy man but you laid out all the uncalled for malice in your quotes trying to get answers for yourself that you new nothing about.

    By the way talking about a circle j—k would you like to be the pivot man? If you think the country is great, then you need to get out of your shell a little more,and see where this country is heading with this administration. If they are not stopped then the good old United States is doomed. This is the sorriest excuse for a President that we have ever had. If it wasn’t for the past Presidents to ask what comes next, he kind of reminds me of you,”going around in circles.”
    Leaving Texas headed for Hawaii. See you January 4, 2010. Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!

  • cr747

    Normal Guy, forgot to tell you there’s is definitely no problem,”or challenge as you say,” supporting the 747′s that I own. Looking to add a couple more very soon. Life has been good to me. Been nice chatting with you!!!!!!!!!!

  • Bob Parker

    Amen to that brother! And May God Bless and Keep You also!

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