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The Man Who Invented Christmas

December 23, 2011 by  

The Man Who Invented Christmas

During this season of massive over-commercialization, you may find it hard to believe there was a time when Christmas was no big deal. There were no stores full of toys, no songs playing 24 hours a day and no Christmas trees with so many presents under them that they fill most of the room.

In fact, there were no Christmas trees at all. For most of the 2,000 years since the birth of Christ, Christmas was not a special holiday. If it was commemorated at all, it was with a candlelight service at the local church or cathedral and a special dinner at home. And that was pretty much it until the middle of the 19th century, when one man’s novella helped to transform the celebration.

He has been called “the man who invented Christmas.” His name is Charles Dickens. He is the author of a simple story he called A Christmas Carol.

Although Dickens is rightly regarded as one of the greatest writers in the history of the English language — he is the author of 20 novels, none of which has ever been out of print — there was a time when his popularity was at an all-time low.

The year was 1843. Dickens’ books and columns weren’t selling very well, his bank account was overdrawn and he was facing the possibility of declaring bankruptcy.

Frantic, he sat down a few weeks before Christmas and wrote a novella that he hoped would keep his creditors at bay. But his publishers flatly rejected his offering. No one would pay to have it printed and distributed.

So Dickens took an amazing gamble: He printed it himself. It was an exercise in vanity publishing long before the world knew that term. The author told friends of the risk he was taking and said it might mark the end of his career as a writer.

He should have had more confidence in the story he told. The book was an instant sensation, selling out the first printing of several thousand copies in just four days. A second printing was rushed through and sold out before the new year began. In no time at all, Dickens was forced to order a third and then fourth and fifth printing.

Then, someone adapted the story for the stage and A Christmas Carol became one of the most popular theater productions of all time. I dare say you can’t find a city of any size in the English-speaking world where there isn’t at least one production of Dickens’ immortal play being performed this holiday season. And Hollywood has produced dozens of versions, including more than a few knock-offs, copycats, parodies and pastiches. If Dickens were still collecting royalties today, he would be one of the wealthiest billionaires on Earth.

By the way, A Christmas Carol was not only an incredible commercial success, it was also a critical hit, too. William Makepeace Thackeray, at the time Dickens’ most severe critic, acknowledged the incredible power of the story:

The last two people I heard speak of it were women; neither knew the other, or the author, and both said, by way of criticism, “God bless him!” What a feeling this is for a writer to be able to inspire …and what a reward to reap!

Today, we are all familiar with the story of the tight-fisted miser who said of Christmas, “Bah! Humbug!” Yet after visits by the ghosts of Christmas Past, Present and Future, Scrooge was transformed. As Tiny Tim says at the end, “God bless us all, every one.”

But A Christmas Carol did more than restore Dickens’ reputation and bank account. It also transformed what had been, up until then, a relatively minor holiday.

As historian Les Standiford has noted, in the early 19th century in England, the Christmas holiday “was a relatively minor affair that ranked far below Easter, causing little more stir than Memorial Day or St. George’s Day today. In the eyes of the relatively enlightened Anglican Church, moreover, the entire enterprise smacked vaguely of paganism and, were there Puritans still around, acknowledging the holiday might have landed one in the stocks.”

Dickens’ biographer Peter Ackroyd and others have credited the novelist with single-handedly creating the modern Christmas holiday. Oh, not the contemporary orgy of shopping, spending and ostentatious display. In A Christmas Carol there are no gaudy decorations, no Christmas trees and, except for “the big prize turkey” at the end, no presents at all.

The only “gifts” exchanged are love, friendship and goodwill. Yet in this one small book, Dickens inspired his contemporaries, transformed a holiday and created an immortal message for us all. The lesson of A Christmas Carol is one of kindness, consideration and charity. Let us hope it lasts another 150 years — or even longer.

I am indebted to my good friend Alex Green for the inspiration for today’s column. I have not only used many of the thoughts and ideas he expressed in his own column, I have shamelessly (but with his permission) borrowed his headline.

His column is called “Spiritual Wealth.” Sadly, you cannot subscribe to it. It is available only to members of the Oxford Club, where he serves as investment director.

However, some of his most powerful columns have been published in a book you can get. It is called Beyond Wealth: The Road Map to a Rich Life, and it is available wherever books are sold. In fact, it is currently on sale at Amazon.com.  I encourage you to order at least one copy now (new or used, printed or electronic) for yourself and many more next year, when it will make a wonderful Christmas present.

Please accept my very best wishes for a most joyous Christmas, surrounded by friends and family and filled with the true meaning of Christ’s Mass.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • Alex Frazier

    Good information Chip. It’s an interesting irony that I’ve been studying and writing a book on the chronology of the New Testament, originally motivated by the desire to pin down the birth of Christ. However, such studies have never led to any necessity to track the holiday or grandier of its celebration beyond the correctness of its dating.

    Very enlightening article. Good job.

    • Dntmkmecmoverther

      Although there is a good study located at http://www.lhm.org which is called ‘St. Nick’ and it’s a good insight into the tradition of St. Nickolai of Myra Turkey. It provides some of the background of Christmas being tied to gift giving and charity. Merry Christmas!

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        Dntmkmecmoverther:

        Origin of Christmas | The Real Story of Christmas | How it Began
        This suggests that the earliest Christians lacked interest in or knowledge of Jesus ‘ birthdate. … [of Jesus birth is not reckoned with certainty, the birth did not occur in AD 1. … How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25? …. Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. …
        http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm -

        • GrayStroke

          How did 25Dec become x-mas? Great question. Hope I can help a bit. The entire package has long pagan roots. It was the RCC that integrated winter solstice to enlarge their church by encompassing all the pagans and their traditions.

          I know this will fly against the face of the depraved modern church that is now a hollow shell or as Jesus called them empty sepulchers … but the truth is hidden is plain site if one will only seek and shall find….There really is nothing Christian about x-mas … but an effective propaganda of apostasy and we will be judged. Enjoy the short read and there are more detailed treatise written for those inclined to study to show themselves approved. http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract3.html

          God bless the elect ….

          • Richard Pawley

            Jeremiah 10:2-4 does mention that which certainly sounds like a Christmas tree, but it is referring to false idols, and no one I know of in the western world worships a Christmas tree. However, if you have not been freed from the Law you are still bound by it as I mention below, so for you, having a Christmas tree would be wrong. How much better to ask Jesus to come into your life, fill you with the Holy Spirit as He did in ACTS 2 and in the lives of millions ever since. You cannot live by the Law and by the Spirit. They are opposites of each other. You cannot do what is right because it is right unless the spirit of God resides within you. If you must constantly look for every little law to obey, you are not on the path God wants you to be on. Jesus said that there were those in His day that carried tithing to the extreme that they even tithed on mint leaves but with most of them God was not pleased!
            In the wonderful book GOD CALLING edited by A. J. Russell, He even told a woman in the U.K. several decades ago, that “All my followers know and love the simple rules I taught when I lived on earth as a man. Many of them would be puzzled by all the rules of your churches. In all things simplify!” If you don’t like Christmas or Christmas trees by all means don’t get involved, but doing so, or not doing so is not going to be more pleasing to God. He wants you to KNOW Him, and not just about Him. The best way to do that, in my opinion, would be to follow the scriptural pattern of ACTS 2, and seek to be filled with His Spirit. That alone,however, is not going to make you a saint. You still have to make the journey. May God bless you and all who read this.

        • Richard Pawley

          There is some truth in what this web-site says, but also some distortion. Easter was always the bigger holiday (anyone can be born but only One fulfilled the ancient predictions and prophecies of the Prophets and the Torah). One line jumped out at me (well, not literally):
          “Christmas celebrates the birth of the Christian god who came to rescue mankind from the “curse of the Torah.” It is a 24-hour declaration that Judaism is no longer valid.”
          That is not exactly true. First of all there is only one God, the father of us all. As the New Testament says, “In Him we live, and move, and have our being”. Secondly, without the Jews there could be no Christians. They are our elder brothers and anyone who hates Jews is not really a Christian because Jesus Himself was Jewish and He said if you go to the temple to offer sacrifice and remember you have something against your brother, go first and make peace with him, then return and make sacrifice.
          What Jesus did was extend God’s selection of the Jews out of all the peoples of the earth to be the avenue of God’s interaction with his creation, to the rest of mankind. Christianity in the very beginning was only for the Jews and it was somewhat shocking to some of the earliest Christians that God cared about non-Jews. God, however, wished to save all mankind (or humankind as the politically correct would say today). The scriptures indicate that the ancient Hebrews were a stubborn or “stiff-necked people” and although the great “I am that I am” did wondrous things for them on many occasions they still kept sliding back to immorality and sin because the Torah alone cannot change a person. So thirdly I would have to say that if by the Torah you simply mean THE LAW then it is true, because THE LAW alone is insufficient to make one Holy. Only God can do that. Jesus Himself said that He came not to change the law but to fulfill it. The Torah is certainly valid for Jews who do not yet accept the Messiah. They are bound by it as God’s promises are always valid. If, however, all one knows is the law then one is held accountable for that, but it is God desire that we be freed from the law, that we are filled with His spirit and do what is right because we want to do what is right, and that we have the power (a share of His power) to do what is right.
          There are many shocking things in the New Testament that even many who call themselves “followers of Jesus” do not grasp. Things like, “When we see God as He is we will be like Him” which implies more than there is room to write about here.
          What I do know is that more Jews have discovered their Messiah in my lifetime than in all of history combined. The contribution to the world of mostly good and occasionally evil by members of the Jewish race is phenomenal and would astound many who do not know of it. My suggestion would be that if anyone wants to know who Jesus really is and what He said, that they simply read the four gospels and then ACTS which immediately follows, in any accurately translated but easy to read New Testament. The reason for reading ACTS is to see the change that took place in the lives of those who came to know Jesus, not just about Him. Anyone who has not done this is missing a great deal. Don’t go by hearsay and by what partly informed people may do. Remember too, the old saying, that “History is lies agreed upon”. ALL will be held to account for what they have contributed or done in this life. “Whatsoever you reap, that will you sow” is as strong a reality as gravity. It’s why Jesus taught His early followers not to hate. You might have to kill someone if they are trying to kill you but if you hate them you are harming yourself.
          We are living in extraordinary times, not necessarily the end of the world, though the next two decades may seem like it, but times predicted in the Bible from 2 to 3 thousand years ago. God’s strong arm of judgement is soon going to be shaking the earth in every way. The false gods men have depended upon, sought, or devoted their lives to are going to be severely shaken in the near future. Those who think they are god are going to be shaken the most, earthquakes in many places, famines and floods, and epidemics and diseases, wars and rumors of war, “and this is not yet the end” Jesus warned us long ago. More importantly He also said, “God is Love!’ and if love is not evident in one group of people who claim to know God, then move on until you find the real thing. “Seek and ye shall find” Jesus said, and God, speaking through one of His ancient Jewish prophets, said, “Seek Me with all your heart, and you will find Me, and I will give you the desires of your heart.” May God bless ALL who read this and may they someday discover, if they don’t already know it, that God really loves them and there is nothing they can do to make Him love them more than He already does. All they can do is draw closer to Him. Shalom and Praise the Lord!

          • Richard Pawley

            I am referring, of course, to the web-site that COAL MINER was recommending. Interesting name, COAL MINER. Coal is a form of carbon but when heated and under extreme presure results in the hardest and one of the most beautiful and valuable of all substances, a diamond. So it is with the soul of men who come to know the truth that sets men free and who grow in the grace of God.

          • Borsia

            Actually Easter was also a made up holiday, at least as far as the date goes.
            It was placed where it is to meld with the celebrations of the Spring Equinox that virtually every older religion held.

          • MNIce

            Borsia wrote, “Actually Easter was also a made up holiday, at least as far as the date goes.
            It was placed where it is to meld with the celebrations of the Spring Equinox that virtually every older religion held”

            The Christian Feast of the Resurrection (commonly known as Easter or some variant thereof in Germanic languages) is set to coincide with the Passover, not the spring equinox. The historical reason for this is because Jesus was God’s sacrificial lamb for the ultimate Passover – His blood spares us from death, just as the blood of lambs on the doorposts spared the children of Israel from the final plague to hit Egypt on the first Passover. He was crucified at the time of Passover, and rose to life again on the third day. The only thing in common with the old pagan spring festival is the name, plus some of the commercially driven bunkum like the Easter Bunny. I call it Resurrection Day and celebrate it with a clear conscience.

          • James

            Richard P. ‘Easter’ occurs only one time in the KJAV (Acts 12:4): “And when he had apprenended him, he put him inn prison, and delivered himj to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.” ‘Easter’ was translated, there, from the Greek ‘Pascha’ while every other occurrence of pascha was translated as the ‘Passover.” They were celebrating the Passover, not Easter.

    • Carolyn

      We have also been doing some study regarding Jesus’ birth. We’re really leaning toward the end of September. Would love to read your book when you’re finished!

  • GDC

    Another LIE from teh psychotic religionist. Dip Wood needs to stay on his medications.

    • Dntmkmecmoverther

      Why do you have to be such an a hole?

    • George Somsel

      You may say “Bah! Humbug” all you like, but I will reply like Scrooge’s nephew

      “There are many things from which I might have derived good, by which I have not profited, I dare say,” returned the nephew: “Christmas among the rest. But I am sure I have always thought of Christmas time, when it has come round —apart from the veneration due to its sacred name and origin, if anything belonging to it can be apart from that—as a good time: a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time: the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow-passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys. And therefore, uncle, though it has never put a scrap of gold or silver in my pocket, I believe that it has done me good, and will do me good; and I say, God bless it!”

      I attempt to make it a habit each Christmas to once again read this gem of English literature. “God bless us, every one!”

      • Vicki

        I have given and received much good in my life. Every good was indeed profit. Profit need not be measured only in money nor even things but in the happiness that the good works help create.

        Do what is right, not because of some reward in the here or hereafter. Do what is right BECAUSE it is right.

        Merry Christmas to all. And have a Happy New Year.

    • http://naver Samurai

      Speaking of meds, why don’t you take yours, roll over, and go back to sleep. People that bring BS, like you just did, to this time of year show they are less intelligent, have low self esteem, and no friends. Neeeeed to be makng that popping sound. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Joe

      Don’t make accusations without proof. Where is the lie in anything he said? Show me where in the Bible it pinpoints the precise date of Jesus birth and where it also says that we must make some sort of observance on that day.

      First of all, the calendar today is different from in Jesus day. The months of June, July, and August were added long after. The Hebrew calendar also tracks time differently. They use 30 day months and every few years an extra month is added to make up the lost days. Also, it is highly unlikely that Jesus would have been born in the middle of winter. Mary and Joseph came to Bethlehem to take part in the Roman census and to pay their taxes and tithes. It is not likely that they would travel in the dead of winter to do this especially when Mary was with child. Most likely they traveled in the period from late spring to early fall when the weather was more hospitable and travel would have been easier.

      The Christmas holiday is a modern invention, early Christians did not celebrate it. To complicate matters, the Emperor Constantine mixed a lot of pagan customs into Christianity to the point where the original Christians, the Apostles, would not recognize it and would in fact, condemn it. Look up the feast of Sol Invictus, which does take place in winter and is a Roman pagan holiday. Also, look at the real roots of Santa Claus. It has nothing to do with any saint of the church like some are trying to point out. Santa Claus comes from early Germanic legends about Herne the Hunter. Originally, Santa Claus or Father Christmas, was depicted as a woodsman in green, not red, the green representing the forest and plants. The Christmas tree comes from northern European pagan traditions surrounding the celebration of the winter solstice. THAT is what you are celebrating at Christmas. It has NOTHING to do with Jesus and Jesus himself would not be happy with it at all.

      • dlb

        Thank you Joe, for adding some truth to this discussion. I am a Pagan (although I grew up in a Christian household and was a practicing Catholic until about 1999) and have done some research as well into the origins of Christmas. In order for the Christian church to convert Pagans to Christianity many of the Pagan celebrations were used to used for Christian celebrations. Such as Yule, which was yesterday, was used as the birth of Jesus to bring in the Pagan population. It is also interesting to note that the Christian Popes also ordered their priests and bishops to destroy the Pagan celebration sites and rededicate them as churches to make the Pagans “feel” mor3e comfortable in coming to church and celebrating Christian holidays.

        • libertytrain

          yep, your post has been done here at least a hundred times. It doesn’t frigging matter.

          • Karolyn

            liberty – Why the animosity? It sure sounded to me like a statement was made without any kind of challenge or rudeness.

          • libertytrain

            I think it’s tiresome to see these same posts over and over again like somehow these folks just discovered what most of us oldies but goodies discovered 40 or 50 years ago. Where’s the joy of Christmas Karolyn, where’s the upbeat….oh dear.

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          dib,
          Rght on

        • http://naver sook young

          Can you please cite a source that would support your posting? I’ve also heard these things many times before, like Libertytrain, and they do not matter. This has nothing to do with the celebration of remembering the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. You said you were Christian till 1999? Why did you stop believing in God and Jesus and backslide to the path of eternal damnation? Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

      • Alex Frazier

        Joe …

        Believe it or not, there is reason to believe that the birth date is precisely pinpointed. Revelation 12:1-5, for anyone who has studied ancient astrology, may recognize the symbolism as a horoscope done in traditional fashion at that time. It pinpoints both the date and the time of day. There is both a woman and a seven-headed serpent. If you look at a star chart, you can see Virgo and Hydra, with Hydra “standing” before Virgo. Virgo is clothed with the sun, with the moon at her feet. This gives us a precise day. And it says that the woman brought forth a man child. In ancient astrology, they didn’t go by sun signs or moon signs. Your horoscope was determined by the rising constellation at the time of your birth. So with the sun in Virgo, with the moon at her feet, and with Virgo on the horizon when the man child was brought forth, if this is indeed a horoscope, Christ was born at dawn on the first day of Tishri. If the other information taken collectively is proved accurate which demonstrates that he was likely born in 3 BCE, then Jesus would have been born on September 11th, 3 BCE, at dawn.

        If it’s not a horoscope, then it tells us nothing. But there are an awful lot of coincidences to the imagery to dismiss the possibility.

        On one of your other points, June is named after Juno, and is mentioned by Ovid, contemporary to Jesus. July is named after Julius Caesar. August is named after Augustus Caesar. Both were so named before Christ’s birth.

        The Hebrew calendar uses a mixture of 29 and 30-day months. During the first century, it was determined by lunar observation.

        While I do agree that Jesus was not likely born in the middle of the winter, to say that it is highly unlikely that he was born in the middle of the winter due to the fact that it was the middle of the winter is like saying that it is unlikely that I was born in the middle of winter because it’s unlikely that mother, who was pregnant, wouldn’t have left the house because it was the winter. When the census was announced, I don’t think they were considering whether or not Mary was pregnant.

        The Christmas holiday has existed since at least 354 CE that we have a record of. How celebratory is was is worth looking into due to this article. But it’s not a modern invention. It has existed since at least the fourth century.

        The Feast/Birth of the Unconquered/Invincible Sun (Sol Invictus) is speculated to have been the origin of the Christmas holiday because of the similarities in the manner of celebration, and even in the details of the holiday impetus. However, there is no evidence to demonstrate that Sol Invictus predates the Christian nativity story. In fact, it didn’t become a legitimate cult of the Roman empire until the third century. It is therefore just as reasonably speculative that Sol Invictus took its story and celebration from Christianity rather than the other way around. This is even more likely since the Christian nativity story can be conclusively demonstrated as early as the third century through extant manuscripts.

        Many of the Santa Claus legends relate to a saint Nicolas who is said to have been contemporary to the time of Constantine. While the overall legend spans an even greater amount of time, and is suggested to have roots in paganism.

        But what I am celebrating has everything to do with Jesus. However our traditions came to be, Christmas is, to me, the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. And the only thing that sullies the Christmas traditions is people who run about spewing tales about it being a pagan holiday. A holiday is what you make it. Candy canes don’t say Jesus to me. But neither do they say, “you’re worshipping some idol.” Most people have no clue what a yule tide log is. Christmas trees are pretty. They have nothing to do with Jesus’ birthday. But they are still pretty, and I’m not praying to the gods of the forest.

        I know you mean well, but it’s unreasonable to condemn a holiday over its origins. The holiday should be blessed for its present meaning to those who celebrate it. If you find it to be pagan, then don’t celebrate it. If you don’t like Santa Claus, then don’t teach the children’s tale to your kids. If you think that Jesus was born in the Fall, and that it’s wrong to celebrate his birthday on some other day, then celebrate it in the Fall, or don’t celebrate it at all since no such commandment was given.

        Whatever the case, lighten up. You don’t have all your facts straight, and you aren’t improving the world with your negativity.

        • TomP

          Thank you, Alex. That was a breath of fresh air in here. I might add that my pastor has mentioned several of the things you wrote here. In addition he mentions that a likely origin of Christmas trees was the Paradise Plays from the middle ages. Those trees were said to be a representation of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (read our conscience). So actually, when looked at in that light the evergreen is there to show us who we really are.

        • Capitalist at Birth

          I have often thought that we should celebrate The Christ’s birth every day of the year, and follow his path at all times. Why not be Christian at all times?

          • http://naver sook young

            Very true and thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS in Australia

            Yeah I agree why not be a Christian every day…but how in your view does a Christian behave every day? What are a Christians core beliefs actions and political opinions? I’d really like to know your views on this because I dont see any Christian traits in the political views you and many others contributions to in this forum.

          • http://naver Samurai

            Can’t the same be said about about you Gilly? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Vicki

          Alex Frazier writes:
          “If the other information taken collectively is proved accurate which demonstrates that he was likely born in 3 BCE, then Jesus would have been born on September 11th, 3 BCE, at dawn.”

          So that would make Allahs attack on the once strongly Christian nation of the United States of America be 2003 years (or 2004 years) after the birth of Jesus.

          The fuzzy is based on a 0 year. does it exist.

          Interesting.

          • MNIce

            There was no year 0. The discrepancy between the Gregorian calendar year and the apparent year of Jesus’ birth is due in part to uncertainty in the conversion amongst the various calendars – the Hebrew calendar, the Babylonian calendar and the Julian calendar in use at the time. For some reason known by God, the exact year of Jesus’ birth was not specifically recorded in calendar terms, although Luke provides enough information to set the timeframe shortly before the Year of Our Lord 1*- in the reign of Caesar Augustus, during Quirinius’ second term as governor of Syria, in one of the census years.

            We do know from the prophet Daniel when Jesus’ ministry began – in the 69th week of years (483 years) after the Persian king Cyrus ordered that the Jews be permitted to rebuild Jerusalem (Daniel 9:25), and as foretold in the same prophecy, after 3 1/2 years Jesus was crucified to “bring an end to sacrifice and offering” (v. 26-27), and finally, we know that afterwards Jerusalem was destroyed by a successor to the Persian Empire in 67 A.D (v. 26).

            * 1 Anno Domini translated to English, or the year 1 of the Christian Era (I refuse to use the “Common Era” nomenclature of the atheists!).

          • Alex Frazier

            The year 0 does not exist, and there is no fuzzy about it. Dionysius established the “first” regnal year of our Lord. The number 0 didn’t exist until the seventh century. In the Dionysian era, they had also strayed from the Varronian Ab Urb Condita epoch, which displaced the founding of Rome by two years. The year Dionysius intended as the first year of Christ’s reign was approximately 3 BCE.

            @MNIce

            The problem has nothing to do with the Gregorian calendar. The Gregorian calendar was merely a correction of the Julian calendar. The Julian was 365.25 days, while the mean solar year is 365.256363004 days. This difference causes a three-day addition to the calendar every four hundred years or so. So the Gregorian calendar corrected the drift by eliminating ten days 1582, and reformed the leap year system.

            The Julian calendar, which was corrected by Augustus, can be easily calculated all the way back to the time of Christ’s birth. It is called the Proleptic Julian Calendar.

            The Babylonian calendar had absolutely nothing to do with anything. And since no date has been given in Hebrew terms, the Hebrew calendar has nothing to do with it either, except in the case that the possible horoscope I mentioned is indeed a horoscope. But even then, that falls to astronomy more than it does to the Hebrew calendar.

            Whether or not the exact year of Jesus’ birth is specifically recorded in calendar terms is debatable. Luke says that John came in the fifteenth year of Tiberius. By Jewish counting, that’s the year that ran from the Spring of 28 to the Spring of 29. We also know from the gospel of John that Jesus had already visited John before attending the Passover where the priests said the temple had been there forty-six years. So we know that Jesus was about thirty years old in 28 CE. If you count that backwards, you will find that Jesus was born about 3 BCE.

            And Anno Domini, more properly Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi, translates the year of our Lord Jesus Christ, not “year 1 of the Christian Era.” The reason it’s appropriate to use the BCE and CE as opposed to BC and AD is that in using the traditional abbreviations, one would place the birth of Christ two or three years before the birth of Christ, whereas the first year of our Lord would technically fall in the third year of our Lord. Therefore, to use instead the abbreviations BCE and CE for Before the Common Era and Common Era helps to clear up the ambiguity. It is not an attempt to take the sovereignty of the epoch away from Jesus. Coincidentally, the BCE and CE abbreviations do also allow people of other faiths to also use the years for international dating commonality, because they are merely the years of our common era.

      • artbrownsr

        Dead of winter over there is mild ( 59 degrees right now). Remember this is a Mediteranian Country. As to the actual date? Who knows for sure? I do know I value the Days of his Birth, Death, Resurection, and look forward to his Second Coming!

        • copyman

          AMEN! The actual dates aren’t known for sure, but i am glad we can celebrate CHRISTmas, Good Friday, and Easter as reminders of Who Christ is, why He came, and what He did for us so that we can have Eternal Life through His sacrificial death and glorious resurrection.
          May HIS name be glorified and honored now and for eternity.

      • Lloyd

        The LORD GOD commands us (those who are saved by the perfect blood of the LAMB) to worship HIM in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. There is so much distortion of GOD’S Biblical truth during this time that the proof is in the pudding. Where is the PEACE of mankind being displayed during this time? I am sure a majority of the world will not give a thought of the purpose that a baby had to be born of a virgin and whose FATHER was GOD, whose greatest gift was that HIS SON the LORD JESUS CHRIST was to sacrifice HIS life by the shedding of HIS pure and perfect blood on the cross in order to save mankind from their SIN to them that believe. (John 3: 1-36) Now this is the greatest example of giving ever shown, yet the act of giving during this time is a sham in comparison. The LORD GOD says in HIS WORD that when we give our the right hand should not know what the left hand has done. The LORD JESUS commanded also to commemorate HIS death only, but man and his wisdom through religion, esp. the Catholic Church and then followed the Protestant Churches decided to celebrate HIS birth, but only once a year and the same goes with HIS death on the Cross only on Easter. The LORD commanded those who believe in HIM to abide in HIS WORD daily, so that we can walk in HIS TRUTHS daily to show our love for HIM. The greatest commandment for all of mankind is to love the LORD GOD with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. Then we are to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. It has to be in that order or true LOVE (Agape)will not work. The HOLY SPIRIT is the only one who can allow this to happen, but only if we desire to accept by free will, which the LORD GOD has given us all. This is my sincere prayer for all who read this that you come and know the LORD JESUS CHRIST the SAVIOUR of the world. Amen.

        • Lady Donna

          The saying is “the proof of the pudding is in the eating.” We are fruit inspectors, the proof of the branch is in the fruit. You work out your salvation by showing love of brothers and sisters in Christ and then love of all others. If you have trouble showing the love of God to the world, then your salvation is in doubt. Otherwise, I think you hit the nail on the head. Merry Christmas to all!

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      GDC,
      Maybe he having side effects from his medications known as old Red eye.
      Jell-o Logic
      Jan 20, 2011 … Jesus is a liberal, a left winger (if you ascribe to the right-wing definition of the word). He turns the other cheek, he helps the poor, he treats …
      http://frankluck.wordpress.com/ -

      • eddie47d

        The Beatitudes says it all in who Jesus was. Yet the Bible also has something for everyone.

      • James

        Jesus said if you don’t work you don’t eat liberals say they need to take the fruits from my labors to feed the nonworkers how is Jesus a liberal Jesus said thou shalt not MURDER and then defined it as the killing of the innocent liberals say a woman has the right to kill the most innocent among us , the unborn living that are known by the Lord just as it states in the bible how is Jesus a liberal, liberals say Jesus would always turn the other cheek Jesus says” if a man cometh to your door and announce his intent is to kill you, YOU HAVE NO CHOICE out of respect for the life he has given us.

        • James

          I’m not the ‘James” who wrote this, the comment above this is mine. But here, the Supreme Court doesn’t go by the Bible, they are bound by he U.S. Constitution.

      • http://naver sook young

        That was the most absurd video I’ve ever seen about Jesus. Please try to understand the meaning of this day, without putting politics into it. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

    • Wil

      So how old are you?Your comment sounds like a spoiled toddler.

  • http://personalliberty rockdoc01

    I’m glad you gave credit to Mr. Green. as I started to read I thought gee, this sounds familiar. I remembered reading Green’s Spriritul Wealth article a few days ago on the same subject.

    As for GDCs comments – what are you referring to? Modern Christmas celebration had its origins in the early to mid 1800s. The secular aspects of course. The original holiday was not much more than a feast day in the christian church (like All Saints Day and others in the Catholic Church)

  • Karolyn

    I just read of the ball getting rolling 20 years before Dickens’ story. In the 1820s, retailers were already advertising for Christmas giving in the US.

    • http://tkrice.tripod.com/ Ted

      I would expect this is correct, and that giving Dickens credit for starting Christmas is a little much. In the story Christmas already seems to exist as a day of feasting and gift giving, and to be a mandatory holiday – even Scrooge had to give Crachit the day off! The practice of asking for money to help the poor already seems to be in existence also.

      • Greg

        Excellent point!!!

        • libertytrain

          I don’t think you read the story. He’s just saying that that story, really helped with the whole Christmas idea – There are so many people that would get credit for bringing these lovely traditions to us. Though are so many who say bah-humbug as well….your posts are kind of like that, and even karolyn as well still looking for a way to put a damper on a sweet article – intentionally contrary…bah humbug…

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            libertytrain,

            Charles Dickens was a liberal left winger. Have you read his books about Oliver Twist and David Copperfield. He was attacking the so called right wing,conservative society in his day.He was actually a socialist and a progressive.

          • libertytrain

            coal – so what? I’ve read his books – enjoyed them, discussed the meaning back in grade school and high school. I don’t get your point?

          • eddie47d

            What was your point of going after Karolyn? Christmas is wonderful yet it more about commercialization than Christ’s birth.There seems to be fewer people in church but more presents under the tree.So what is the real reason for the season? Is it to fulfill our need for Jesus or to impress friends and family with gifts we can’t afford?

          • libertytrain

            I don’t consider it as going after Karolyn. She’s always lecturing us on seeing the good and never being negative, so I’m continuously surprised that she needs to bring negativity into her comment instead of saying gee wasn’t that a nice story.
            I love Christmas, I love the stories. I’m saddened when people try and bring down all the beauty of Christmas – share a good story, we could use a break from negativity. There are many. If all you see is commercialism, that my dear is your problem. Very sad for you.

          • eddie47d

            Knowing about commercialization doesn’t mean I encourage or endorse it. We put the Christmas dinner and church before who gets what. Have a Blessed one.

          • Karolyn

            liberty – I was not intentionally being contrary. Since I just read a story of the history of Santa Claus the other day, I wanted to share that commercialism has been here longer than we might think. Why do you find it necessary to find meanings in my posts that are not there?

          • Karolyn

            Actually, this is a good time to mention all the news about the secret Santas who have been paying off peoples’ layaways. I just heard of one today who paid off 100 layaways! There have been numerous stories of good samaritans this year. There was a woman whose disabled husband’s truck was stolen with all the Christmas gifts inside. One good person donated $1000. The good are outweighing the bad who are even breaking into peoples’ houses and stealing their gifts. As far as I’m concerned, Dickens’ tale is the epitomy of what the season is about. It’s about giving, and I find that as I get older I would rather give than receive.’s so much more fun! :-)

          • libertytrain

            nice post re the secret santas – Kmart in Asheville has been hit “hard.” There are wonderful Christmas stories everywhere….It’s wonderful to be positive and upbeat about the beauty of Christmas —

          • libertytrain

            eddie, we are all well-aware of commercialism. I think you’re trying to lecture the wrong crowd…try your own kids. We’ve been there years ago. And yes karolyn, I’m kind of up on the history of marketing and copywriters so I knew the ‘story’ but saw no point whatsoever in bringing it up during this sweet story…

  • FreedomFighter

    As we Americans face the most feared developements in goverment in the history of our country, the gutting of the constitution, martial law and take over by elite alien mega banking cartels to enslave our population after they disarm us,

    I want you all to count your blessings, enjoy your food, hug your family tell all that you love, how much you love them,

    the war against Americans has begun and you may never get another Christmas like this again for a very long time if ever.

    God Bless

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • Old Henry

      Well said Freedom Fighter and the truth of your words brought a tear to the corner of my eye. Oh, what have we wrought?

  • Alex

    For once, a Chip Wood contribution that is well-written and rather accurate.

    The point that Mr Wood seems to miss is that it took this Capitalist cesspool we live in, the White Estates of Amerikkka, to blow the doors off this family holiday of reflection on the birth of the Socialist Jewish carpenter and turn it into a frenzied shopping spree.

    Americans—the most wasteful and selfish people in History.

    Still, I wish you all a very Merry Christmas! God Bless Us, Each and Everyone!

    • http://naver Samurai

      I agree with your last sentence, though it fllowed a bunch of lies, rhetoric, innuendo, and hate. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Chris

      Yikes! Your mind is a cesspool.

    • Eric

      Socialism is forced Christianity. It puts a gun to your head and says “give.” It is the religion of atheists. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

      • DaveH

        Eric,
        I am an Atheist. I don’t like Socialism. Don’t behave like Alex.

        • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS in Australia

          DaveH…I have never heard of an athiest group starting up a hospital or a charity, yet I bet you have been to a Christian based Hospital before.

      • Joe

        Socialism is nothing to do with Christianity, and other religions besides Christianity say that it is good to give to the poor. Why isn’t Socialism forced Buddhism or Taoism?

      • http://naver sook young

        Want an unfounded rant and at this time of year also. I see there is no Jesus in your heart. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

      • vicki

        Socialism is theft. It has nothing to do with Christianity nor Christ.
        People using the power of government to take from some (at gunpoint) and give to others.

        • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS in Australia

          Socialists dont give to others..they just take from workers and keep it themselves and their own families and those of their military perpertraitors. pun intended

    • DaveH

      Unlike what you and your fellow Liberals advocate, Alex, the Christmas shoppers aren’t being forced to participate.
      And Jesus was not a Socialist, Alex. I defy you to post one statement of Jesus in which he advocated taking other peoples’ money or property.
      And as usual, Alex has revealed his inner self with this statement — “Americans—the most wasteful and selfish people in History”.
      In one short sentence, Alex has exposed his bigotry and his lack of logic.

      • Alex

        Five per cent of the world’s population using twenty-five per cent of its resources, DaveH. Grow up.

        • Alex

          As I have suggested before, DaveH, stop reading so MUCH into what people who never knew Jesus said about him, and read MORE into what Jesus his own bad self had to say—it’s called the “Sermon on the Mount”—it is the ONLY RECORDED speech he is known to have made.

          I don’t know if you consider yourself a Christian, DaveH (you certainly don’t SOUND like one), but if you do, don’t you owe it to your Savior to LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAID?

          • DaveH

            I asked you, Alex, to “post one statement of Jesus in which he advocated taking other peoples’ money or property”.
            You do know the difference between giving and taking, don’t you Ignorant Liberal?
            I’m a Atheist, by the way. But unlike yourself, Alex, I’m knowledgeable and honest.

          • Joe

            You are a VERY misguided individual with a lot of false ideas about Jesus and Christianity.

          • eddie47d

            The Bible has several stories about giving to the poor and healing the sick. God even commanded Jesus’s Disciples to abandon what meager wealth they had and become “fishers of men”.There are also stories about sharing the wealth and even giving it all away. Psalms 49:6 Says “the wickedness of those who trust in their own prowness,and boast of their great riches” are the wicked ones. Verse 10 says “For we see that the wise die also:like the dull and stupid they perish and leave their wealth to those who come after them”. Colossians 3:2 Set you minds on things that are above,not on things that are on earth” Verse 10 says “Put to death.. evil desire and greed which is idolatry” The Bible has many warning about the misuse of money and power.

          • Alex

            Thank you, eddie47d. Merry Christmas to you and yours!

          • DaveH

            What are you thanking Eddie for Alex? You still haven’t provided one example of Jesus telling anybody to take other peoples’ money.
            You Liberals really just don’t know the difference between giving and taking do you? It’s the difference between philanthropy and Theft.

          • http://naver sook young

            Gee, you really sound very confused. How can you be a hard line liberal and a Christian? Since the ways of liberalism are opposite that of Christianity, it would be impossible for you to be both. Jesus was a liberal? I’ve read that untrue statement on this site during the past year. It was a lie then and still is today, so please quit saying it. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. Tell me where Jesus says that we should have money taken from people to pay for those who refuse to work. The Bible warns us of being lazy.

          • vicki

            eddie47d writes:
            “The Bible has several stories about giving to the poor and healing the sick. ”

            Yes it does. And nowhere in those stories does it suggest that you should use the power of government force to take from ANYONE to give to the poor.

            So eddie or Alex. We are still waiting for ANY evidence that Jesus advocated taking by force the wealth of anyone to give to anyone else.

            We’re waiting. Not expecting much but willing to let you prove your case.

          • eddie47d

            I proved it you’re just not willing to accept it. Where is your proof that he didn’t renounce the selfish and greedy. I’ll be waiting.

          • http://naver Samurai

            Ed is at reading comprehension “O.” She said be taken by force and not that Jesus admonished the greedy and selfish. Give with your heart, not being forced by the government. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Vicki

            Eddie47d writes:
            “The Bible has many warning about the misuse of money and power.”

            So why do “liberals” ignore the warnings and use the power of government to force people to give up their hard earned wealth?

          • Vicki

            eddie47d writes:
            “I proved it…”

            And what is it that you proved? I did notice that you failed to provide evidence of your assertion that Jesus advocated taking wealth by force. I also noticed your poor attempt to change your assertion. This is why it is so hard and yet so easy to debate liberals. You just have to point out their attempts to change the subject or insult you or your points.

            Eddie. Even though we disagree on a bunch of things I would still like to wish you and yours a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. May we be successful at beating back the tenderls of Socialism so that your children and grandchildren can live in freedom instead of cursing their slavery and the cause thereof.

        • Joe

          Sorry, but that’s wrong. We don’t actually use most of the resources, we buy the products made by others who use the resources. Where would the people in those countries be if we weren’t there to buy what they produce? If we didn’t consume as much as we do, there would be a lot more poverty and death in the world.

        • DaveR

          Alex,

          And how much have those people produced relative to the rest of the world and their use of resources including energy?

          And how much have those people given to others around the world relative to others?

          And how much of the technologies they invented and developed have been shared with others around the world who have used them to benefit themselves and others?

          Even if the numbers you repeatedly recite as if they were criminal are correct, they alone do not tell the story of the American people.

          • Alex

            You’re correct, DaveR, that those numbers don’t tell the whole story of Amerika. We need things like the Haymarket Massacre, Wounded Knee, and My Lai to paint a clearer picture….

          • http://naver sook young

            Why don’t we include in this Alex, my husband who received his first ever Bronze Star and first Purple Heart by saving 3 of 4 soldiers from a burning tank that was hit by a missile, my husband being wounded in the process. How about him earning his first ever Silver Star and second Purple Heart for his actions during a battle in Iraq where he got 2 soldiers to safety, being wounded again. How about this country giving food and other things to countries that had an earthquake, flood, typhoon, famine, or some other calamity? If you are an American, I really feel sorry for you. No patriotism, God, or Jesus in you. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

        • DaveH

          Which resources, Alex? Are you talking about the renewable resources, or the non-renewable resources? Are you talking about the biotic resources or the abiotic resources?
          Please make yourself clear. Inquiring minds would like to know.

        • James

          Just under 5 percent of the worlds population uses 25 percent of the worlds resources to produce just OVER 25 percent of the worlds GDP. The most efficient country in history, stop with your whine bag sissy whimpering carbon based fuels power the industrial world, freeing men. Our country sacrificed over 600000 lives freeing slaves and carbon fuels was key to doing this so go ahead and finish high school, get your diploma, spend a few years at a real LABOROUS job before going to college so maybe you will be able to appreciate this country, better yet why don’t you go “bless” some third world country with you arrogant guilt so you can get a good feel for what hard life is like

          • James

            Tis isn’t mine either.

    • Joe

      Take your race baiting elsewhere, troll. If you don’t like living in the USA, then move out if you can find another country that will have you, though with the attitude you seem to have, I doubt anyone will.

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS in Australia

        Joe, you stole most of that line from me…lol

    • dan

      Since when is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords a socialist?

      Happy Festivus…Chanukah…Saturanalia…Quansa…Winter Solstice

      but most of all , a very Merry Christmas to all ! Hohohoho !

    • Fed up

      This one white boy would like to wish you a very marry Christmas and you can shove it up your ass Alex!

      GOD BLESS AMERICA and all her “true” AMERICAN patriots.

      Semper Fi

      • Fed up

        Sorry, Had a little spelling error — It was meant to say Merry Christmas!

      • eddie47d

        Actually it was a good error since we are all to “marry into Christ” and become the “brides(bridesgroom) of Christ”.

  • http://www.personalliberty.com/straight-talk/the-man-who-invented-christmas/?eiid= Cherokee

    Merry Christmas to Everyone!

    • DaveH

      Thank you, Cherokee. Merry Christmas to you.

    • Alex

      Thank you, Cherokee, and Merry Christmas to you and yours as well!

  • TriumphOver Evil

    The problem with Christmas is that children have been taught that there’s a big, fat, man who wears a red suit and breaks into your house via the chimney. It’s no wonder adult’s minds are screwed up and there’s so much crime in the world because they’ve been brainwashed all their lives with fairy tales. They’ve made those fairy tales come true by spending their last dollar on gifts they can’t really afford.

    If people taught their children the true meaning of life and invested more in their souls and not their materialistic greed, this world would perhaps be a wonderful place to live… HAPPY WINTER SOLSTICE

    • iowaheretic

      I thought that when people spend money it makes the economy go around.

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS in Australia

        The money does circulate when people spend their money at Christmas,anytime actually, but some of you hardliner think you make money because you so work hard at whatever you do producing widgets that you believe people must need to buy from you and thats why they have so much money they dont want to share some of it to contribute to the running of their nation and its security.

    • DaveH

      In other words, Evil, if they did things your way — or else.

    • cawmun cents

      I think what everyone misses about the whole idea of Christmas,is that it is about a specific gift.
      God’s gift to us.
      While I see the premise of the Dickens article as partially true,part of the story was left out.
      In the biblical tale of Christs’birth,was there not three men who showed up out of nowhere to give the family gifts?
      Is it not a custom to have showers when children are born?
      We give gifts to one another during Christmas,because we recognize that this child for whom the whole affair is presented,is after all our child,a gift from God.
      He is for all of us.
      So we shower each other for the childs sake.
      Has that fact been lost on us?
      Absolutely.
      What a concept.
      Giving.
      Do I suppose that it is good for the corporations to run in the red all year and then expect us to bring them into the black?
      You run your whole life in the red,and then at the end of your life, God in his love and mercy,brings you back out of debt.
      What makes that possible?
      The gift which he gives us with no strings attached.
      Did you accept God’s gift this year?
      He has extended His mighty hand of grace to all through Jesus Christ.
      That is His gift to each and every one of us.
      So when we see a direct correlation of giving and receiving,we should remember that three men came to shower that family,in hopes that we all could learn from their philanthropy.They traveled afar to make sure that a baby who was born in a stable,because His folks were too poor to afford the suite at the Hilton,would have something to jumpstart his carpentry business.
      One that built houses in heaven for us all to live in.
      So we give to one another in the fervent hope that the gift of God is remembered.
      If corporations(which are made of large groups of people,often from all corners of the world)are spared debt by our giving,maybe its a cause to celebrate.
      But what do I know?
      Apparently very little……..
      -CC.

      • Sirian

        What you’ve said cawmun cents is one of the best ways of encapsulating what Christmas truly is that I’ve read in a very, very long time. If only people could see it in the manner that you described without pleasurably slamming it with their political/secular/non-religious/ non-understanding/ fervent detest.

      • Moosedrool

        cawmun cents,
        Nowhere in the Bible does it say there were “three wise men”. It just says that Magi (astrologers) from the East came bearing gifts and then happens to list three of the gifts, gold, myrrh, and frankincense.
        They also did not come to find a “babe in a manger”, that was the shepherds. They went to a house and gave gifts to the child. Jesus was around a year old when they came to him. Then they left and did not return to Herod, that is why Herod had all male children 2 years and under murdered.
        We celebrate the birth of Christ because He is God’s gift to us, and without his coming to earth, as a man, and then dying as a sacrifice, and then rising again, we would still be making animal sacrifices for our sins.

        • cawmun cents

          How do shepherds,come with gifts of gold,frankinscense,and myrrh?
          I dont know if you realize how stupid that sounds,but you dont know evidently how poor shepherds were.They were consiidered one slat above beggars on the ladder of sucess two thousand years ago.
          You are the victim of what I will kindly refer to as revisionist history.
          The Magi did indeed visit Herod.
          But they had to have permission to stay in his kingdom so that as the child grew older,they could stay and learn wisdom from Him.Your mistake is in assuming that they quickly came and left.
          But why would you travel from afar,to see if indeed a child of historical and religious renown was born,and not stay to learn wisdon from the child in question?
          That would not be wise.
          All of the education the people who you base your knowledge on have learned,is useless,and baseless.
          The three Magi knew this fact.
          They wouldnt have wasted their time listening to the charlatans you base your knowledge from.
          They would have clearly seen through the smoke and mirrors.
          They didnt need the history channel or some marxist professor,to tell them how to think.They knew that no true wisdom comes from those who believe themselves to be wise.That learned scholars often are mistaken.It is because they refuse to believe the truth.
          They see it as happenstance.
          They believe in things which just do not historically make sense.
          Is it any wonder why our youth are estranged and confused?
          They mimic their teachings.
          When dark and confused people teach,their pupils are dark and confused as well.That is a microcosm of today.
          You refuse to believe what is true because it doesnt line up with what the dark and confused teachers taught you.
          So take your dark and confused knowledge to the grave,becuase that is where it will lead you.
          I realize that you will refute my testimony here.
          But you never consider the source.If you did then you wouldnt need the lies that come from that source.
          Merry Christmas,Happy Holidays,Good Winter Solstice to all.-CC.

    • FreedomFighter

      Whats the last thing the athiest said after he died?

      Oh God, I was wrong.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • DaveH

        My favorite people are Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses.
        That is because of their behavior, though, not because of their beliefs in a God.

        • Alex

          Your “favorite people”?

          So it’s okay with you to label ENTIRE GROUPS OF PEOPLE as either likable or un-likable?

          Adolf Hitler thought a lot like that, too, you know. Scary….

          You want to re-think that post, DaveH, I mean, kind of ‘clean’ that up for the New Year?

          • Alex

            Ooops….I forgot to say, “SMACK!!”

          • DaveH

            No Alex, Hitler was like you. He believed that it was his way or the highway, just like Forcing Thieving Liberals.
            I believe in a voluntary society where people trade freely among themselves absent the Force and Coercion of controlling Liberals.
            And newsflash, Alex, I do dislike Liberals. And I dislike people like you.

          • Alex

            You don’t know what a Liberal is—you either haven’t studied enough or you went to Davidson with Ben Crystalnacht—you only know what Faux Noose TELLS you a Liberal is—get back to school, DaveH—oh, wait, maybe don’t go back to school, not just yet—you make a great foil.

          • DaveH

            A Liberal is a person who wants to change established tradition. Our tradition is Freedom and Small Government. In my book, anybody who thinks Big Government is the Solution is a Liberal. That includes many (if not most) Republicans.
            I’m talking about the Political definition of a Liberal, by the way. As with so many English words, the meaning is different for different people.

          • DaveH

            Before you come back with more of your nonsense, Alex, here is just one of many dictionary definitions for Liberal:
            http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liberal

          • eddie47d

            If you really read that definition of Liberal you’d have to do alot of apologizing Dave. “defenders of maximum individual Liberties”. WE already knew that.

          • DaveH

            Apologize for what, Eddie? As I said there are many definitions. The political definition is one of change from traditional ways. Modern Day Liberals have no clue what Freedom is. Almost everything you guys advocate involves the Force of Government — the opposite of Freedom.
            If Liberals advocate Freedom, then you are the largest collection of hypocrites on the face of the earth.

          • http://naver sook young

            “Let me control the textbooks and I’ll control the nation.”

            Adolf Hitler

            This sounds more like a liberal to me. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • vicki

            Alex demonstrates the old addage about it being better to keep silent by writing:
            “You don’t know what a Liberal is”

            Ah but we do.
            https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Liberalism

            The problem is that many people who call themselves Liberals are clearly not for anything like the ideals of liberalism. You can quickly identify them by their desire to have government pound their pet projects in to the rest of us. Typically at gunpoint.

      • Angel Wannabe

        FF, Whew!__I’m glad I won’t be uttering those words!

      • http://naver sook young

        I believe that was Anton Levy. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

    • FreeHumanity

      Pretty sure the one thing JESUS wasn’t was a Capitalist! Happy Solstice, Christmas, Hannakuh or whatever floats your spiritual boat.

  • Jimmy

    Good article Chip!

    The Man Who Invented Christmas

  • http://www.fossilizedcustoms.com Lew White

    The origins of things like Christmas are mostly revised Pagan festivals, and few people care because they are not considering the Creator’s point-of-view, only their own.
    WHAT IS A CHRISTMAS TREE? For a casual look at this, visit
    fossilizedcustoms.com/christmastree.html

    • Lisa

      Thank you for your comment. Fossilized Customs is largely responsible for the wake-up call my husband and I received about 5 years ago, aside from YHVH removing the scales from our eyes. Thank you for providing this book! We are praying for you and yours. May The Creator bless you richly.

    • Vigilant

      Well sir, if you understand the Creator’s point of view, you must be a Heavenly spirit.

      We can believe, speculate, surmise, guess or fabricate His point of view, but we cannot ever know it. It’s what faith is all about.

  • Old Henry

    Great article Chip. Merry Christmas to you!

    And Merry Christmas to the PLD staff and everyone here. I pray you all have a Blessed Christmas.

    It appears that ours will be sans the “white stuff”, but the kids / grandkids will be here and that is the important part.

    Merry Christmas and Lord willin’ and the crick don’t rise I’ll see you all on Monday.

  • Joey Biden

    Merry Christmas to all. Peace on Earth. Good will towards man.

    • Alex

      Right back at you, Joey Biden, and to your Loved Ones, as well!

  • Alex

    I know that there are an awful lot (funny—they ARE an awful lot!) of Ron Paul supporters who contribute to the PLD— you had better get some Pepto or Alka-Seltzer—it’s going to be hard to digest that Xmas goose now that your candidate has cooked his OWN!! Like Rick Perry, Ron Paul is now Texass Toast!

    Next!

    • DaveH

      How many Liberals does it take to screw in a light bulb?
      Three.
      One to stand on top the ladder with a bulb, and the other two to turn the ladder.

    • DaveH

      Alex,
      Care to post some references to your Ignorant claims?

      Here’s mine:
      http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2011/1219/Ron-Paul-back-on-top-in-Iowa-new-poll-says

      • Alex

        You’re joking, right?

        Don’t get much news down there in the sewey-hole, do you?

        • DaveH

          You make a lot of claims, Alex — Unsupported Claims. Why not post some supporting references, Alex? Surely you don’t expect the readers to just take the word of a Liberal?
          If somebody’s paying you to disrupt the interaction of the Freedom-loving people on this board, their money is NOT well spent.
          Your comments are the best that I could hope for in my quest to wake people up to the bankruptcy of Liberal thought. Keep posting.

          • Alex

            I am a good writer, huh? I mean, so many people on here, like you, think I get paid. Thanks!

          • DaveH

            Why else would you persistently spew such nonsense?

          • http://naver sook young

            The last I heard, Ron Paul was ahead. I could be wrong, though. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • vicki

            We know by now that Alex doesn’t have any references. Thus he can’t post them to backup his totally unsupported assertions.

  • mondovibe

    The universal theme of Jesus, Dicken’s to “It’s a Wonderful Life” all highlighting exponential profits vs greed, income disparity…so many sustainble blessings to all, tuto mondo!

  • Alex

    You are an Atheist, but knowledgeable and honest, huh? Think highly of yourself and all, that’s good.

    You would sound a bit more intelligent if you were an Agnostic. If I were an Agnostic rather than a Believer, I would be sound a bit more intelligent, as well.

    Atheists don’t KNOW what they know, and neither do Believers. It is all on Faith and speculation. When we die, we will either find out or we will not. Only Agnostics are smart enough to admit that they Just Don’t Know…

    • Alex

      Sorry—must be tired now. The passage above was meant as a reply to DaveH’s smarmy little “knowledgeable and honest” response to another of my rapier-sharp posts higher up this PDL page..

      • DaveH

        So, Alex, then you need somebody to show you that there are no three-legged pink elephants with a horn, before you believe there are none?
        That would figure, you being a Liberal who believes that Socialism leads to prosperity for all when the historical record shows just the opposite.
        By the way, Alex, you never have answered my question. Are you in bed with the elite Leadership, thus participating in the redistribution of wealth from the citizens to yourselves? Or, are you just an ignorant duped follower Liberal who doesn’t know any better?

        • Alex

          The people I am “in bed with” (are you impotent? Not to be nosy—there are probably half a million “DaveHs” in the country—so don’t feel too exposed—it’s just weird the way you sexualize things that are, essentially, non-sexual) are people like Lucy Parsons and John Brown and Emma Gpldman and Eugene Debs and Howard Zinn and Nat Turner and Abbie Hoffman and Phillip Berrigan and Joe Strummer and James Baldwin and…

        • Alex

          Personally, I do not really believe in three-legged pink elephants with horns, and I consider the idea of a power much greater than myself more to be much more likely than your dream creature.

          I have yet to see France, but I believe it exists.

          So, did you have a point in there, somewhere, anywhere?

          • DaveH

            Yes, Alex, the point is that you’re ignorant. Thanks for proving it to the readers with your non sequitur about France.
            Now answer this — Do you believe in Utopia?

          • Alex

            Like the term ‘Liberal, you do not understand the term ‘non sequitur’. Dummy.

          • DaveH

            I addressed that in an earlier comment, Alex.
            The scary thing is that you apparently honestly believe you are intelligent.

          • jennynewyear

            You guys must bug each other to pieces, but I find value in hearing opposite opinions. Aside from the name calling, this whole forum has been really enlightening. I used to be an atheist. One day my heart opened to the Lord’s message and I felt it so strong and so real throughout my body that I will never forget. Do you believe in love, even though you can’t see it or touch it? It is the same with faith. It is risky, but worth it when you get it right. Peace.

    • DaveH

      Agnostics are simply Atheists who are afraid to commit. There is little intelligence that comes in your comments, Alex.

      • Alex

        Like I said, Agnostics are smarter than either Believers or Athiests.

        • DaveH

          Who do you think you’re kidding, Alex? You can kid yourself. You can kid those who haven’t read your comments. But you can’t kid the rest of us, and your ignorant comments are now permanent records for all to see.
          If I was you (thank goodness I’m not), I would do a lot more reading and thinking before I posted on this board.
          Your ears are bookends to a vacuum, Alex.

          • Alex

            You’re starting to make us sound like a couple of junior high girls texting about “Glee”, DaveH—you are much too hung up on me. Why don’t you try to get back on point with the subject.

            Besides, I’m straight and and have reason and depth, so we just wouldn’t work out.

          • Alex

            I don’t mind a little self-deprecation—believe me, I can take it, so let me give you a better metaphor to use—how about “bookends on an empty shelf” or a “vacuum with a packed bag”.

            Your deal about “bookends to a vacuum” makes about as much sense as the rest of your drivel.

          • DaveH

            Lol. I didn’t think even you were that ignorant, Alex. My 12 year old grandson would have understood my metaphor.

          • Alex

            DaveH–Since you are unable or unwilling to end your little hissy-fit, I will do it—-there are lots of readers on PDL that can do without two stubborn people shoveling dirt.

            I will take the high road and put an end to this by simply stating the obvious: I am right, you are wrong—again.

            Now untwist your panties, let the other readers relax, and I will allow the offal you toss around to decompose on its own, without my prodding.

            Have a good Holiday season! (<<<I know you don't like me–that's okay–but I mean that<<<)

          • DaveH

            Lol.
            Seek help, Alex.

          • Alex Frazier

            I dno’t think you’re right Alex. Apart from you believing in God, which is one of the most intelligent things I have witnessed from you, I think you are otherwise an ignorant boob. You’re as bad as my parents. People like you argue from passion rather than fact, and it leads to situations where I back my mother into a corner (figuratively speaking) until I made her admit that no one should have stopped Hitler from murdering six million Jews.

            The reason liberals like you always resort to immediate insults instead of polite, rational dialog is that your point of view can’t stand up under factual scrutiny.

            You should take your lead from eddie. He has a liberal point of view, but he’s typically polite unless provoked. You, I have observed, make nasty comments straight out of the gate. I don’t typically tend to dislike people without being seriously insulted. You I can’t stand. I wish you would just STFU.

          • Alex

            Alex Frazier—-WOW!! You sure dishonor our name!

            So there was nothing wrong with killing six millions Jews? You are a sick man or woman! You do not mention the millions of gypsies, Communists, homosexuals, intellectuals, etc, to perish in the camps—just the Jews.

            And then—-FORCING your mother to “admit” that no one should have stopped this? Sicko!

            Merry Flippin’ Christmas!

          • DaveH

            I thought you were leaving, Alex?
            Can you at least keep your word about that?

          • http://naver sook young

            How are agnostics smarter than believers in God? For someone who says he believes, you sure do seem very lost. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Alex Frazier

            Alex you misunderstand. I argued that there are times when it is necessary for those with power to help those without. When larger nations attack smaller nations, sometimes even bigger nations need to intervene. She wanted to argue a complete anti-war position. And the conversation and her stubborness progessed to the point where I asked, “so you’re saying that America shouldn’t have interefered to stop Hitler from murdering six million Jews?!” And because she refused to be wrong, she said that even that was none of our business.

            In other words, I backed her into a corner until she admitted that no one should have stopped Hitler from murdering six million Jews.

            If I was previously unclear about what I was saying, let this be the clarification.

      • bob wire

        WoW! a dirty sock fight! I’m gonna tell Santa! Dave & Alex are being naughty!

    • DaveH

      Alex says “Only Agnostics are smart enough to admit that they Just Don’t Know”.
      Lol. Good one, Alex, you don’t know — but that makes you smart? Where do you come up with this stuff, Alex?

      • bob wire

        My Goodness! You two are turning the forum into a roller derby!

        Saying that you “just don’t know” does not make one smart but it does make one wise.

        Humbling honesty, I’ve found to always be in short supply and in the possession of few. The older you get seems to make it easier.

        Learning “when” to say “you just don’t know” is most important as it’s easier to just say nothing.

  • Merry Merry

    Well, how nice to see only a couple of unhappys on here today.
    To the one who calls us wasteful and selfish, you must be young. True, there are some who qualify, just look to Tinsel Town. As for the MOST wasteful, look to crowns, wherever they may be.
    To the one who calls religion psychotic, I’m sorry you don’t have what it takes, real or imagined, to feel comfort.
    As to materialistic greed, well, we’re all children here, so YOU teach us the true meaning of life.
    In the meantime, I still find the world a wonderful place to live, even as I’m forced to acknowledge the unimaginable. I just have to walk outside, and I usually have a beautiful day to thank God for. I see beautiful plants, and animals. I see my children, and their children.
    So, chances are, I’ll spend this Christmas with all those kids, and we’ll probably head out a little later in the day, and go play with our favorite toys…I’m taking my Weatherby.
    Realizing what’s headed our way doesn’t mean you can’t take a break. To be dismal continually? That’s lack of hope, and that’s not real intelligent, or healthy. But it certainly is boring, and a waste of the most improbable odds you beat in just being conceived.
    To you naysayers of happiness, I met a boy who was born with no chance of seeing eighteen. His mind was fine, but his entire body was twisted to the point of needing multiple surgeries just to be able to put on shoes he would never walk in. He died at thirteen, and while it’s true he had his bad times, and questioned his father for not letting him go during one episode of pneumonia, he also had lots of good times, and showed more courage than so many…which it does take for happiness and the joy of simply being alive.
    While we can’t deny things are changing, badly, you still live in a pretty good place, so gather up your brains and your balls and enjoy…

    • artbrownsr

      Way to say it Merry Merry!!

  • http://123textcash.com Donny C

    Why do people think they must control others beliefs, or think their beliefs are the true ways of thinking and acting, Why can’t humans understand that on the average we have some 60,000 thoughts per day and not one single human has the same 60,000 thoughts as another. We are all different, if one wants to celebrate Christmas GREAT if someone else doesn’t GREAT, let people be who they are without condemnation and you be who you are. By the way, it’s none of my business what others think about me, I have been set FREE, free to travel on my journey without me caring about what others think of me or agreeing or disagreeing with what I do or say. All of you have a blessed 2012 and beyond.

    • libertytrain

      Amen

  • Henry Ledbetter

    Thanks Chip.. We will be meeting this Saturday evening at 9 p.m. in an old historic church building that has no electricity but with kerosene lamps on the walls and candles to light the darkness. We will sing some old Christmas Hymns and after each one scripture will be read or quoted by different ones in the audience. We will be dismissed by prayer and depart to our respective place of abode. Our family has decided not to exchange gifts but are encouraged to give to the needs of others. I pray all have a MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR..

    we

    we will

    • Angel Wannabe

      Henry, one of the most beautiful services is the Candlelight service or fireside out of doors, I’ve been party to both.
      Warm Wishes for a Wonderful Christmas!

  • http://cesarfs.blogspot.com/ Cesar Fernández-Stoll

    Christmas was not ‘invented’. It is a celebration of the coming of Jesus, our savior. God, incarnated for our salvation… Born of virgin Mary for grace of the Holy Spirit…
    I think you all have, to say the least, heard the true story of Christ our Lord and redeemer.
    You seem to celebrate ‘not believing’ in God or the truth of His love for everyone, to the point of sacrifice on the cross.
    What is in there for you? As this seems to be the typical question that comes to mind for ‘believing’ or not, the answer will always be; truth, love, humility and forgiveness… through faith, hope and charity.
    Christmas is the season to celebrate, not gifts or commercialism, but the birth of Christ, and nothing else.
    I consider atheism the most dangerous religion because of its lack of faith, because not believing in God means believing in nothing, which means reducing anyone to ‘something’ not worth anything, to some sub-human condition subject to the power of the strongest.
    I wish everyone a merry Christmas and very prosperous 2012 and many years beyond… and that God be mercyful in your weakness finding the truth.

    • Borsia

      Atheism isn’t a religion, neither is theism for that matter.
      It is however the fastest growing belief / non-belief world wide.
      It is also incorrect to say that atheist believe in nothing.
      An atheist can, and usually does, believe in many things like love, patriotism, a connection to nature and bonds to family and friends.
      The fact that we don’t believe in your gods is inconsequential to us. We are just as mystified about why someone would believe in a god as theist are as to why we don’t.
      A thinking person can’t choose to believe in something that makes no sense to them any more than we could believe that red is blue, black is white or up is down.
      Believing in a god is no mare valid than believing in elves, fairies, goblins or alien abductions, though there is more evidence of aliens than there is for a god.
      As to Xmas being invented,,, it was and just as the author described it. Xmas was in fact condemned by the Catholic Church for hundreds of years. Over the history of the religion there have been many different dates recognized as the birth day of Jesus.
      Dec. 25th was chosen because it coincided with the celebration of the Winter Solstice that was held by almost every other religion and the church wanted to be able to meld those into their worship.
      Of all of the “Christmas traditions” the only one that is in fact Christian is the nativity scene. Everything else came from other religions or beliefs.

  • Angel Wannabe

    Well the more things change the more they stay the same, still the drill between believers and non-believers.

    To the Believers, while history and knowledge of our Good Shepherd is key__OUR FAITH in the tiny child born in Bethlehem is what binds us to truth. _ In tiny tim’s immortal words, “May God Bless us everyone”

    To the Non-believers, I’m not sure what happiness can be gotten, by a constant search for information to denounce and dis-prove Christianity, in the end, I guess ones needs to ask oneself, is it the search that drives you or the answers?__ To not believe doesn’t nessasarily make you bad people, in my opinion, and atheist, is and ego who can’t believe in something larger, more powerful than yourself!

    MERRY CHRISTMAS AND WARM WISHES FOR A WONDERFUL NEW YEAR!

  • Wim Vonk

    What a nice article by you for a change from the political thoughts. Let us be thankful for what we have at this time of year and remember the true meaning of Christmas

  • JeffH

    MERRY CHRISTMAS to libertytrain, Claire, Kate8, DaveH, Angel Wannabe , Cawmun cents, Time, Jibbs, Raggs, Al Seiber, Danaz, Jay, patty, vicki, samurai & sook young, sc, JC, Karolyn, Antonio, Old Henry, Freedom Fighter, Alex Frazier, Joe H, PLD and their staff and all of you I may have missed.

    MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of my fellow patriots! :) Keep up the good fight…For God & Country!

    • libertytrain

      Jeff – may you and your kinfolk and friends have a wonderful Christmas -
      and the same to all those you mentioned or might have missed. I enjoy “hanging” out with so many of you – Merry Christmas!

    • Angel Wannabe

      Merry Christmas to you as well JeffH! :)

    • http://deleted Claire

      Just in case I am unable to get on this site before Christmas–I have thoroughly enjoyed this past year reading everyone’s comments, and posting my own. I believe I know so many of you very well and I feel like I have new friends. It is good to know that I have friends. Friends are one of God’s greatest gifts. My Bob has been in the hospital again since last Sunday. This is the 4th time he has been in the hospital since October 24th. He has so many issues and is down to 117 pounds. One of the aneursyms under the heart has gotten longer. There is nothing the doctors can do since they would have to break his rib cage to do surgery and they said he would not be able to handle surgery like that. They did a Cath test yesterday and he has severe blockage on the left side at the top of his heart. The heart doctors are debating on this procedure, if Bob can handle any more invasive treatment. He has had dialysis three days in a row. My son is with him right now, I am at home taking care of the dogs. Bob is hanging in there, I call him my “tough old bird.” He always tells me to take care of “his dogs.” And I always answer “your dogs?” They are mine too! I could cry, but if I do, I don’t think I will be able to stop. To libertytrain, thanks for reading my emails, and for your support. I treasure your friendship.
      I should not be pouring my guts out on this site, and I apologize. It is hard at times to be upbeat about things. I keep telling myself things will get better, and I have to have hope. Although all of us may not always think alike, please know that I respect all of you. God bless each and everyone, and my sincere wishes to all for a very Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Merry Christmas to you too Clair & God Bless!

      • JeffH

        Claire, I’ll be thinking of Bob and your families well being throughout this holiday…May God be with you…Best wishes,Jeff.

      • Karolyn

        Claire -Thanks to you for all of your level-headed, fair and balanced posts throughout the year. Have a love-filled and peaceful Christmas.

      • libertytrain

        You know I adore you Claire, and treasure our friendship – but look here my friend – so many love you too and are with you during this difficult time for you and Bob and your wonderful son.

      • DaveH

        Claire,
        I’m sorry to hear about Bob. Best wishes to you.

      • Alex

        You and your loved ones are in my prayers.

      • http://naver sook young

        Merry Christmas to you also and we’ll be praying for Bob.

        Sook Young, Samurai, and Fluffy

    • Vicki

      Thank you JeffH. Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

      For all of my fellow patriots. Merry Christmas.

      Semper Fi.
      -Vicki-

    • Karolyn

      Thanks, Jeff. Have a wonderful Christmas! :-)

    • DaveH

      Thank you, Jeff.
      Merry Christmas to you.

    • http://naver sook young

      Merry Christmas to you and your family from my husband Samurai and I. 성탄 잘 보내세요. Merry Christmas in Korean and thank you.

      Sook Young and Samurai

  • GrayStroke

    The link below is a very lengthy article but it touches upon each topic in a short concise and detailed manner that will benefit everyone. In fact it did me much good to re-read it again and refresh my memory so we ll learn and progress.

    For a separate but more detailed study of X-mass here is this link.
    http://www.thercg.org/books/ttooc.html

    by reading all the post it clearly shows we are all over the map in missing basic understanding of the gospels of Christ and the admonishments of the apostles. None-the-less we are all striving to grow and it is my hope that this contribution will help us all in one way or another. If you get all upset and want to reply in a vitriolic manner please consider why before posting. Life is not static we all will grow albeit at different rates yes?

    • Alex Frazier

      No such thing as X-Mas. If you don’t want to recognize the Christ in the holiday, then it’s not your holiday. Go celebrate something else. It’s as bad as calling Hanukah Candle Week.

      • GrayStroke

        Tsk-Tsk-Tsk … a whole article in-depth study on the pagan origins of x-mas and your only rebuttal is my use of: ‘x-mass’ wow you really are a deep thinker can’t wait to see what genius commentary you have to offer after you get out of the basement and mommy givers you your meds….lol…

        • http://naver sook young

          What a rant at this time of year. This is the day that ourLord and Savior Jesus was born. Let’s keep Christ in Christmas. X-mas makes no logical sense. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

        • Alex Frazier

          Always insults and rarely intelligence. I already made several posts on this thread concerning Christmas, its origins, some of the objections, etc. But rather than reading them, you prefer to insult. I don’t need an article to tell me about Christmas being pagan. I studied that stuff a long time ago, and I probably know the information better than the person who wrote the article.

      • Karolyn

        Geez, Alex, lighten up!

        • Alex Frazier

          Why should I lighten up on something like that? Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. If you take Christ out of Christmas, you cease to have the holiday. To me it’s as ridiculous as trying to disassociate the signing of the Declaration of Independence from the 4th of July. Christmas is about Christ. The 4th of July is about the Declaration of Independence. No one can arbitrarily disassociate a holiday from its impetus. If you don’t like what a holiday stands for, don’t celebrate it … just like many of us don’t dance naked under the full moon at solstice and have an orgy afterwards.

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    Liberty
    You conservvatives are always quoting liberals and the books they wrote.Don’t you have any of right wing people you can quote from?
    (Charles Dickens was a liberal left winger. Have you read his books about Oliver Twist and David Copperfield?)I forgot the question mark.Ha ha ha
    2

    • libertytrain

      coal, there is something wrong with you. I did answer your previous exact question. You are one sick puppy.

      • JeffH

        libertytrain, notice that coal lays low until something regarding “christians or religion” pops up…then the “satanist”(think Joy of Satan connection)and demented quotes and references for his sick and twisted beliefs…and can’t let go? Who’s forcing their beliefs on who is my thoughts…certainly not you…hmmm…Happy Holidays!

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Jeff H and liberty

          The Christ Myth
          Many of the Hebrew Myth Concepts are traceable to Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia. Jesus Christ, the Sun God, is a Cosmic Myth – on a par with Osirus, Horus, …
          http://www.thechristmyth.com/ – Cached

          • GrayStroke

            hey great book for the agnostic in your family….. but will do nothing come battle against the grace of God and lose in the end… hope it works out for yah’ll…..

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Jeffh and Liberty,

            Join the World pantheist movement.A real belief in God.

            PANTHEISM: the World Pantheist Movement
            World Pantheism promotes love and care of Nature, reverence of the Cosmos, concern for human and animal rights, and positive affirmation of life.
            http://www.pantheism.net/

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Also,

            Pantheists in History: a history of pantheism
            Pantheist History. History of Pantheism and pantheist thinkers.
            http://www.pantheism.net/paul/history.htm – Cached

          • eddie47d

            If they can’t win an argument they throw barbs out instead of a simple answer. Then you are the “evil” one because it doesn’t fit their view. Why can’t they just say “I don’t agree with you on that matter” and move on.

          • JeffH

            eddie, you’re such the hypocrite…I’ll not wait around for you unwitting fifth grade level retort.

            Definition of HYPOCRITE(eddie)
            1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion

            2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

          • http://naver sook young

            This video was nothing but a bunch of unfounded lies. Pantheism? Please, even the people of the Far East gave that up many centuries ago for Bhuddism, Shintoism, Confutianism, Daoism, and Christianity. Please try to make more intelligent postings next time, Coal Miner. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • eddie47d

            You just proved my point Jeff, Thank You I guess you’ll have spend Christmas Day cleaning off your shoes for you are always stepping in it.

          • JeffH

            eddie, I can only hope that your family is happier in life and aren’t forced to share in your own personal misery.

        • libertytrain

          Jeff – you are absolutely correct. I can’t quite understand why they are forever anxious to stomp out every single joy by their own hatred of life… Nothing nice can be said without one of them combating it with some negative unnecessary twist. I will toast to you and my dear friend Claire, on Christmas Eve. wishing you the best life has to offer as we find ourselves in our autumn life.

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, and I too will toast all of you wonderfull people.

            Claire & Bob

            God Moves in a Mysterious Way
            by William Cowper

            God moves in a mysterious way
            His wonders to perform;
            He plants His footsteps in the sea,
            And rides upon the storm.

            Deep in unfathomable mines
            Of never-failing skill
            He treasures up His bright designs,
            And works His sovereign will.

            Ye fearful saints, fresh courage take,
            The clouds ye so much dread
            Are big with mercy, and shall break
            In blessings on your head.

            Judge not the Lord by feeble sense,
            But trust Him for His grace;
            Behind a frowning providence
            He hides a smiling face.

            His purposes will ripen fast,
            Unfolding every hour;
            The bud may have a bitter taste,
            But sweet will be the flower.

            Blind unbelief is sure to err,
            And scan his work in vain;
            God is His own interpreter,
            And He will make it plain.

          • libertytrain

            Jeff – thanks for that. I think our friend and her kin are facing a big challenge.

    • GrayStroke

      I have two excellent books for your reading enjoyment:
      Liberty & Tyranny- http://tinyurl.com/85fmxwm

      The 5000 Year Leap (Original Authorized Edition: http://tinyurl.com/7nrf57k

      The Road to Serfdom Chapter 2 & 3 look remarkably like our nation does today, truly human nature does not learn from past mistakes and we fight the same battle for personal liberty everyday: http://tinyurl.com/84kf23k

      So there 3 great book to absorb over the holidays and learn from, liberal have little to contribute in teh way of personal freedom since the foundation is based on government collectivism in varying degrees. Kindah like grandma giving yah castor oil and telling yah it was for your own good….Haaa…..

  • LowlyWise

    I’d like to recommend a book to all of you, a spin-off of A Christmas Carol.

    Jacob T. Marley
    R William Bennett
    Shadow Mountain, 2011

    I came across this in a corner of the book department of a supermarket, read it, and promptly returned to buy up all available copies to give as presents.

    This brought me to tears — me, a reader of many books and reviewer of some. But then, so does the source of my pen name, LowlyWise, and that source is Milton’s Paradise Lost. All books mentioned here are “about” lost opportunities, among other things, and “about” redemption. From Adam’s disobedience on down to the unreformed Scrooge’s niggardliness, we’ve lost it as a race and as individuals. But in the epic God gives Adam the chance to grow up, and through other prevenient grace, the Scrooges of the world to change. Right now, overnight, to erase the damage from loveless childhoods and adolescences by giving of themselves the goodness that lies latent. And with merriment!

    God rest all of you merry.

  • LowlyWise

    By the way, the “X” in Xmas does not necessarily have the negative connotations of the English “X.” but rather is the initial “Chi” in Greek. “Chi” for “Christ,” more accurately transliterated /khristos/. You can similarly abbreviate “Christianity” as “Xty” or “Christian” as “Xtn.” There is nothing sinister about this.

  • Angel Wannabe

    I don’t know if I’ll have the time to stop by again til after Christmas__I’d like to wish Bob Livingston, the Personal Liberty Staff, Writers and all the Fine Family of Folks who keep PLD forum alive an humming_

    The Warmest Wishes to You & Yours for a Happy & Wonderful Christmas!

  • JimH

    I’m sure many of us have our own special memories of past Christmas’s and family traditions that are special to us. There are reasons to celebrate and be happy.
    Everyone celebrate the way that you see fit and don’t let the Scrooges and Grinches get you down.
    Merry Christmas to everyone here.

  • FreedomFighter

    Ronald Reagan Christmas address (12/23/81)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UU0tuah-x7M#!

    Raygun Ronnie said it best

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • bob wire

    Well I guess I should read everyone’s post and see how the rest of America is making out this Christmas as I am truly interested and offer best wishes to all.

    But Christmas hasn’t been much of a big deal in my family since the children grew up and the Two Bushes around here.

    After Ronnie Rayguns tenure and then George’s Desert Fart, Christmas shopping joined Christmas Past and is now something only remembered along with the times I fought Christmas decorating and to my wife dismay had to screw the tree to the living room floor just to get it to stand straight. Or her surprise when I took her “Jim Neighbors Sing Christmas” record and broke into small pieces after listen to it for three days.

    aahh! I feel better already! There something to be said about having little to spare, not having to fight traffic and shopping crowds is one of them. Ho Ho Ho!

    I can watch TV commercials and tune them out as if they were Glenn Beck.

    • JimH

      Well Bob, maybe a little hope and change will make you feel better.
      Ho Ho Ho Bah Humbug to ya.

  • Jonas

    Interesting to see we still have great men of faith, atheists (so called) who believe in nothing ( they say)!!! “The fool has said in his heart there is no God” Notice it says “in his heart” he is actually trying to convince HIMSELF by saying to himself there is no God!
    But remember, just believing in God does not make one a Christian, the WORD also tells us that “the demons also believe and tremble”

    • Vicki

      Jonas says:
      “Interesting to see we still have great men of faith, atheists (so called) who believe in nothing ( they say)!!! ”

      That they believe is the key. The belief in nothing creating everything is just another religion. Yes there are fine patriots here who are by their words atheists yet that does not bar them of the love of freedom nor should it bar them from our fellow patriots.

      Their words and behaviors mark them as people who honor the gifts of life and free will given to all by their Creator.

      Jonas: “The fool has said in his heart there is no God” Notice it says “in his heart” he is actually trying to convince HIMSELF by saying to himself there is no God!

      Though I do not comprehend how anyone could look around at the vast and complex universe with all its apparent chaos but with such finely tuned laws and still believe that “nothing created everything”
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQzu7OgmgLw

      • bob wire

        And to consider that the nothing is actually filled with something that is larger then all the rest, That you can’t sense it does not mean that it not there. But the truth is while we can see it , we see it’s effects everyday. What hold the universe together? Gravity but gravity from what? Nothing? nothing has no mass, no gravity so the search for something that appears to be nothing is on.

        This site warned against reprinting so I give you the link

        http://www.standard.net/stories/2011/12/23/are-you-there-god-particle

        We (mankind)are now only beginning to enter the crawling stages and beginning to understand the universe.

        There are “others” that have known for a long.

        There is plenty of room for God in all of this as we search for “HOW”

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Bob Wire,

          Very interesting.
          Vacuum Fluctuations
          The matter in the universe is made out of positive energy. …. the universe began as a perfect vacuum and that all the particles of the material world were created out of nothing…
          http://www.braungardt.com/Physics/Vacuum%2520Fluctuation.htm – Cached

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Creation ex nihilo – without God
            Even in a perfect vacuum, pairs of virtual particles are constantly being created and destroyed. … The matter in the universe is made out of positive energy. …
            http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mark_vuletic/vacuum.html -

          • vicki

            From whence came the energy (which of course is matter in the form of energy.)

            More interesting is the claim of “virtual” particles. Are they or are they not? That is a question.

          • Jay

            coal: The universe began as a perfect vacuum and that all the particles of the material world were created out of nothing…

            Coal, out of nothing came something? Nothing is no thing, denoting the absence of something.

            In nontechnical uses, nothing denotes things lacking importance, interest, value, relevance, or significance. Nothingness is the state of being nothing, the state of nothing, the state of nonexistence of anything, or the property of having nothing.

            Another words, from nothing, you get NOTHING, NOT SOMETHING! There had to be something, or someone to begin with. The cause of finite HAS to be INFINITE!

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    Scientific Pantheism – the World Pantheist Movement
    Pantheism. The Web’s leading resource on pantheist history, theory and practice.
    http://www.pantheism.net/paul/index.htm -

  • Borsia

    The origin of the Xmas tree came from celebrity or rather royalty fascination and trending.
    The first indoor Xmas tree among Christians came about from Queen Victoria. She came from northern Europe and was not a Christian until becoming queen required her to convert.
    In her homeland they held the evergreen as one of the things they looked to for inspiration because it stayed green and lush in the harshest of winters. To celebrate Yule they decorated evergreens.
    When she moved to England she wanted to bring a bit of her own beliefs and she ordered that a tree be brought into the castle and decorated.
    The common people heard and saw this and they wanted to copy it. Bringing a small tree into their homes was something that they could do even on limited budgets and it caught on quickly.

  • Susanna in CA

    I, for one, am happy to see pagan rituals overtaken by Christian observances. Many Christian hymn tunes used to be drinking songs, too. Of course Jesus wasn’t born on December 25th, but who cares? Pick any random date to celebrate the day and celebrate it. Just because we’re not told explicitly to celebrate something doesn’t mean we’re forbidden from celebrating it. Some people find reason to celebrate the happy events from the Bible and to sing to God, share God’s love and worship God. If someone wanted to assign a day to celebrate each of Jesus’ miracles, I’d be fine with it. Do what’s meaningful to you. While I do find it interesting to know the origins of our celebrations, I don’t think it means that we need to go back to any particular time in history and stick with that culture’s traditions. No one way is right. I’m sure in 200 years there will be new traditions, and they’ll be fine, too.

    • bob wire

      Considering if you go back far enough, everybody was Pagan or didn’t bother with worship of any form. So I’m with you Susanna, whats the big deal? Little doubt is was considered “fashionable” .

      “Hey you and the kids come over tonight and we can sacrifice a virgin or something! We did good on our last pillage and plunder, caught most of the men out hunting and made off with a bunch of nice hides and all the women we could move fast with.”

      And such accounts common occurrences,but virgins are harder to come by these days.

      • http://naver sook young

        People have been worshiping God since Adam and Eve. When did the pagans come to be? Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        • Karolyn

          sook – You’re skipping a whole lotta people! The Bible does not include the whole history of the world. What of the people who worshipped multiple gods? The Druids of Ireland were pagans. Adam and Eve didn’t worship God. I don’t believe in the story, but where does it say they did?

          • http://naver samurai

            Karolyn, you need to just look back at Genesis in the Bible and then you’ll understand that they knew, worshipped, and feared God. Second, it is true that the Bible does not tell all of the world’s history. Actually, the Celts are mentioned in the Bible. They were used by the Romans to fight and conquer areas of what is now Turkey for them. They tried rebelling against the Romans, but the Romans set up a Celtic kingdom for them, to be ruled by Rome, of course. It was called Galacia. You know, the Book of Galatians? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • JG

    What a shame that the ravings of provocateurs like this “Alex” are neither entertaining nor of any interest or educational value.

  • Vladimir

    The irony is that Dickens was a capitalism hater but nevertheless he in fact has commercialized Christmas.

  • Karolyn

    Have a wonderful Christmas everyone! :-)

    • http://naver sook young

      You too, Karolyn. :-)
      Thank you.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai

  • http://aol DAB

    December 25 is not the date of the birth of Jesus. December 25 was
    originally the date of the celebration of the Sun God. Constantine
    changed the meaning when he became a follower of Jesus, if not
    spiritually but perhaps in name only. I do not know which. The Bible
    does not tell us to celebrate Dec. 25, however I do not think there is
    any wrong in setting this time aside as a special day. For me it is a
    time to put up the Christmas tree, buy presents and spend quality time
    with my family. I am a follower of Jesus and I love him so-o-o much
    for what he did for me. I do not think of Him anymore at Christmas
    then I do any other day of the year. He is with me always.
    Thanksgiving is a holiday and it is OK. But I spend every day of my life thankful for what I have and with God’s help, I can be thankful
    for what I don’t have. 1 Thess. 5:18, says to be thankful in all things. Merry Christmas to all and God’s blessings throughout the
    year!

  • James

    The Bible doesn’t say precisely what day of what month Jesus was born on, but it can be figured out. In Bible Chronology, by Adam Rutherford (1957), p. 444, there’s a diagram that shows “Mary’s Conception at the Winter Solstice in 3 BC (December 23rd, Julian Calendar); then a 280 day gestation period, which brings us to the Night of September 29th, 2 BC (Julian), which was the Hebrew New Year Day, for the birth of Christ. His analysis that led to that is too lengthy to add here. But, in general we know the sheep were at pasture when Christ was born and at that latitude, His birth couldn’t have been any later than October because by November sheep would be put in folds for the winter.

  • James

    The December 25th holiday has been around for a long time, certainly many centuries before Christ was born. As to decorating trees, Jeremiah 10:2-3 reads: “Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.” That passage is dated circa 600 BC.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS in Australia

    Their seem to be a lot of Athiests who enjoy the benefits that the Christian Christmas bring but they not too keen to share anything they have aquired during their lifetimes doing whatever an important job or business enterprise during their lifetimes only to have to leave it all behind to their offspring or to a protestant Charity like the Salvation Army who in anycase will share it amoungst the very criminals and their poor families you so strongly detest during your lifetime. . I say why not spread it around while you are alive so you can chose the more deserving of your hard labours.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS in Australia

    Capitalist at Birth made an interesting comment suggesting that why not be a Christian every day…and I asked him and all you readers how in your view does a Christian behave every day? What are a Christians core beliefs actions and political opinions? I’d really like to know your views on this because I dont see any Christian traits in the political views of some of you political Christians and many others contributing to in this forum. The meaning or being a Christian seems to have different meanings to various people in this forum.

    • James

      In the United States, Christians no longer live by the Bible. They tend to believe that anything they think is good is thus Christian. They focus on Salvation and the hereafter rather than the here and now.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS in Australia

    I recently met an author living in St Arnaud in Victoria 3478 his name Michael Miroslav Cic who has written about a new kind of God …A god of incomprehensible quality of intelligence, friendship, love and beauty…This particular “god” most certainly is NOT related to the god of the “Old Testament”; nor is it related to ANY organised religion whatsoever. Nevertheless, it implicitly “belongs” to MINDS like those of Socrates, Aristotle, Einstein and Tesla…..This UNKNOWABLE SUPERMIND does not share mankind’s “intellectually-induced faith; no religious “belief”…. it is not interested in prayers or temples-except for their beautiful architecture. Its “DIVINE meaning-field SOFTWARE” of constant-ecstatic-delight; is NOT related to the existence of SELF-CAUSED or SELF-INVENTED witches, devils, angels or hell…nor is this god responsible for starvation, sacrificial offerings, ‘after life’ rewards; superstitions, slavery, prostitution..injustices and/or INTENTIONAL cruelties and perversions. To quote Einstein: In this sense, and in this sense only, I belong to the ranks of the devoutly religious men” I wholeheartedly agree! he writes….his Free writings will be released soon for further discussions as he wishes to offer his findings …his two discoveries which have escaped so many neuroscientists research findings to date. Incidentally the Australian arm of the RED CROSS offered to buy the copywrite of his e-book published in 2001 his Science Fiction/Philosophy e-book Titled: DIALOGUE WITH KONDA: Universal Philosopher published by Zues Publications, Queensland 2001. ISBN 1 876882 530. Funnily enough AMAZON dont have it. See if you can find it.

  • shelly

    It seems to me as if the hundreds of comments have ripped everything apart except the heavens above. One poster seems to think socialism will end greed. Oh so wrong, not only do the leaders of socialistic countries become evil in themselves but they leave the population poor with little wealth to spread about.

    And, I may add, being a capitalist does not exempt you from greed. We have our share of greed intertwined here in America, such as labor union leaders who rob their followers blind while they promise to help their underlings. Oops, that is socialism.

    But the article one thousand postings ago was about Dickens inventing modern Christmas. Gee, I hate to pop Dickens’ bubble but a show I watched many years ago (History Channel?) informed us, the ignorant unwashed, that Hollywood invented Christmas.

    Working as a writer and columnist in the sprawling, smoggy city of nonsense I can understand, but not agree with, their headiness about inventing modern Christmas,especially since they like to release their blockbusters on Christmas.

    In my heart I would like to see every store not needed for convenience to close at 3 p.m. on Christmas Eve and most other businesses to close on Christmas so families can gather about and not see the bored kids run off to the cinema and purchase ten-dollar bags of warmed over popcorn. There was a time in larger communities when Jewish nurses covered for those who wanted to be home. Not sure if that happens anymore

    Unfortunately our culture has moved far from that point. As a matter of fact, I guess today is also a holiday since sending a card, picking up my package or cashing a check at the bank was near impossible. I thought Christmas was over.

    Christmas lives in the hearts of those who understand God’s gift unto us. I heard a commentator on a Christian radio station several years ago asking listener’s to bless someone by handing them a dollar for no apparent reason. Not only does the recipient act totally astonished but what is given without reason will come back. I try to remember that concept when possible. To me that is what Christmas is all about, giving without asking.

    Last week we fed about 75 low-income seniors a Christmas meal. Being a retired chef, I joined into the process and prepped for three-days then cooked all that day, then cleaned up, along with about half-a- dozen volunteers. Swore the grim reaper had arrived to carry me away as I slumped in my recliner most of the next day. Would I do it again next year. You betchya. Boy, being a capitalist can wear you down!

    Guess at this point all I can say is Happy New Year and I hope the Mayans won’t murder us with their exhausted calendar before next year.

  • Lawrence Ekdahl

    Both Christmass & Easter are pagan holidays and have nothing to do whith the birth of Jesus Christ nor his ressurection. They were brought in by Constantine who corrupted true christian worship .

  • http://greenpasturesministries.webs.com Al

    If one were really interested in finding the date of Christ’s birth, one would need to know what the Bible says.
    So many try to research the Scripture using only the second half of the Bible.
    Paul, when he wrote to Timothy he stated, “all scripture is inspired of God and profitable for doctrine…”
    The “Scripture” that was in existence at the time of Paul writings was what we call “The Old Testament”.
    Determining the date of Christ’s birth requires understanding of the Old Testament as well as the new,and the understanding that there are not two Bibles but one.
    If you understand the meaning of the commanded HOLY DAYS of the Old Testament, you will know what they meant, and how they are fulfilled in the New Testament.
    First, the Passover pictures the shedding of Christ’s blood for the remission of sin; The Days of Unleavened bread, pictures Christians walking in newness of life; The Waive shief, shows that the sacrifice is accepted and the sacrifice makes the believer clean and acceptable to the Father. Each of theses day, called the “Feasts of The Lord”, (Lord referring to Jesus before his earthly birth) picture God’s plan for the world and for the Believer.
    Pentecost,= the filling of the Holy spirit in power, Trumpets, proclaiming the Gospel to the world, Atonement, being change from physical to Spiritual in the blink of an eye.

    The following “Feasts of the Lord” refer to the establishing of the Kingdom of God on the earth with Jesus Christ being KING AT HIS BIRTH. The Feast of Tabernacle pictures the Kingdom of God, the Last great day shows the white throne judgment and eternity.
    Having given all this basic knowledge it is left to the believer to discern the birth of Christ from the scripture.

    (We believe Christ’s ministry was of two and a half years),
    Christ died, according to the new testament scripture, to fulfill THE PASSOVER, in the spring of the year. One half of a year, six months, would bring us to the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles, the establishment of the Kingdom, Christ, the King at his birth, would necessarily be born on that first day!!!

    The first day of the Feast of Tabernacles occurs in late September-Early October.

    • James

      Al, see my above comment concerning Adam Rutherford’s Bible Chronology, which dates Christ’s birth at Septemer 29, 2 BC. One thing for sure, it wasn’t on December 25th, which was the day pagans celebrated the return of the sun – just after the Winter Solstice. The fact that there is no general agreement on His birth date, underscores the fact that His birthday was never celebrated by biblical Christians, nor by early post-biblical Christians. Adding the manger trappings to tree decorations was an attempt to Christianize an otherwise pagan holiday.

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