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The Gun Grab Cometh

December 31, 2012 by  

The Gun Grab Cometh
PHOTOS.COM

Whether the gun grabbers orchestrated the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre or just saw it as the perfect opportunity to rip the heart out of yet another Constitutional amendment, before the bodies of those slaughtered babies were even cold the 1 percent were signaling that 2013 is going to be a tumultuous year for gun owners — and liberty.

Senator Dianne Feinstein (Fascist-Calif.) announced on her website on Dec. 17 that she was introducing a bill in January to “stop the sale, transfer, importation and manufacturing of military-style assault weapons and high capacity ammunition feeding devises.” It will ban 120 specifically named weapons, including handguns and shotguns, and strengthen the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, which expired in 2004.

According to the outline of Feinstein’s bill, it will grandfather in all legally owned weapons, but it will require they be registered and the owner fingerprinted. It will require a $200 per weapon tax be paid. The guns will not be transferable, meaning that upon the death of the owner the guns will become the property of the Federal government. It will allow the sale of 900 specifically named weapons, but none that can accept a detachable magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.

She and her fascist cohorts in crime — New York’s Senator Chuck Schumer and Representatives Carolyn McCarty and Jerrold Nadler and West Virginia Senator Jay Rockefeller, among others — are calling for a ban on so-called “assault weapons” and any weapon that uses high-capacity magazines. Unfortunately, a vast number of the unwashed masses — in a fit of emotionalism resulting from the thought of all those dead kindergartners — are buying into the lie that one more law would have saved those innocents. The above-mentioned 1 percenters all indicated they would steal everyone’s weapons and magazines, placating themselves with the rationalization that it’s a gun and magazine buy-back program, if they thought they could get away with it.

Never mind that purported shooter Adam Lanza broke a half dozen or more laws before he ever shot the first child. Never mind that Connecticut is ranked fifth of the 50 States in gun control laws, according the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence because the State “has strong gun laws that help combat the illegal gun market, prevent the sale of most guns without background checks and reduce risks to children.” And never mind that, according to FBI homicide data, rifles of all types are the least-used guns when crimes are committed.

Of course, Feinstein, Schumer, et al. care not a whit about children, as I explained here. If they did, they’d be weeping over the hundreds of children killed by President Barack Obama’s drone attacks, those killed in car accidents because of corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards and government-mandated air bags, and the 2,000 aborted every day in America.

Instead, they try to turn reason on its ear by equating law-abiding Americans — who own certain semi-automatic weapons — with terrorists. So their answer is to add more layers of laws, bureaucracy and expense on the already burdensome exercise of acquiring weapons for protection (and yes, it can be burdensome in some States).

But you don’t need those scary-looking so-called “assault weapons” to protect yourself, they’ll say. Or, as President Barack Obama reminds us in typical straw man fashion, military-style weapons with high capacity magazines shouldn’t be in the hands of civilians.

Tell that to these men who were left to their own devices during the 1992 Los Angeles riots.

When society broke down, law enforcement was nowhere to be found. These business owners armed themselves to protect their property. But had a large crowd braved the guns they possessed and come to loot their stores, the double-barreled shotgun and bolt-action rifle being wielded would have been inadequate, where an AR15 and several 30-round magazines would have been quite a deterrent. As the reporter said at the end of the clip, more than 100 Korean-owned businesses had already been looted. Just not this one.

The gun grabbers will tell you that you no one needs an AR15 because they’re not used for hunting. That would be a surprise to the tens of thousands of deer and other small game felled by them each year.

But the 2nd Amendment was not put in place just for hunters or for self-defense. It was put in place to protect Americans from totalitarians in government like Jerrold Nadler, who told CNS News: “One of the definitions of a nation state is that the state has a monopoly on legitimate violence. And the state ought to have a monopoly on legitimate violence. If the premise of your question is that people are going to resist a tyrannical government by shooting machine guns at American troops, that’s insane.”

Yes, it’s insane because Americans are prohibited from owning “machine guns” unless they first acquire a Class 3 Federal firearms license, an expensive and daunting undertaking. The weapons on the list to be banned are semi-automatic — one trigger pull, one round fired — not fully automatic. That meme is yet another straw man.

If the state has a monopoly on violence, that is full-blown tyranny. Americans would no longer be citizens, they would be subjects. Nadler has revealed the end game.

Folks, the Sandy Hook shooting narrative has more holes than a piece of hardware cloth, as do the Aurora, Colo., theater shooting, the Milwaukee Sikh temple shooting and the 1999 Columbine, Colo., massacre, for that matter. They’re likely all false flag events. And just like previous ones, they will lead to loss of liberty.

The fallout from these shootings is always the same: a call for stricter gun laws. As Nadler’s comment indicates, this time the gun grabbers are emboldened as never before. But why wouldn’t they be. It was just a year ago that they passed the National Defense Authorization Act, which allows for the indefinite detention, without charges or trial, of Americans on American soil. And they did so with barely a whimper out of the populace, which is becoming ever more docile and subservient by the day.

The psychopaths in the cesspool of Washington, D.C., realize there is no better time to strike than while Americans are emotionally drained from the visions of grieving parents and the sweet smiles of the dead children.

The truth is that of the 12,664 murders committed in the United States in 2011, rifles were used in only 323 of them. “Knives or other cutting instruments” were used in 1,694 murders; hands and feet in 726; and blunt objects like clubs and hammers were used in 496. A ban on knives and hands and feet would be far more effective in reducing murders, which Nadler claims is the goal.

But, of course, reducing murders is not the goal of the 1 percent. It’s total disarmament. That would give the state the long-awaited monopoly on violence.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • CZ52

    Death by firearm is 10th on the list of causes of death in the US.

    A few that are above firearms are: Medical errors 118,021; motor vehicle accidents 34,485; non firearm homicides 16,799. According to the FBI the #1 weapon used in violent crimes is the baseball bat.

    Sources The CDC, FBI, and US federal government.

    • Vicki

      We DEMAND Baseball bat control. Registration and possible confiscation must commence at once. Its time to stop the madness.

      • FreedomFighter

        Totalitarian control is only possible in a disarmed society, as the Nazis and communists demonstrated in the twentieth century.

        Obama’s regime starting with the DHS has purchased 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition including hollow point “MAN RIPPER” ammo that is outlawed in war due to the horrific wounds these rounds inflict on the human body, fully automatic weapons, semi-auto and sniper, armored vehicles, war type body armor, drones (armed and surveillance) all to be used in America on Americans. In addition, military, police, Russian, Chinese, UN, NATO and other special units over the last several years have been and are being trained to:

        CONFISCATE YOUR GUNS DOOR TO DOOR – they will lock down as area and with overwhelming force remove all guns, one area at a time, resistors will be terminated and their families sent to re-education FEMA CAMPS or formed into WORK BRIGADES (slaves).

        FEMA has already setup the camps, purchased millions of coffins, trained guard dog, hired personnel to man the camps (recently), have special design rail cars and buses stationed all over America waiting for MARTIAL LAW implementation

        “the goal of the 1 percent. It’s total disarmament. That would give the state the long-awaited monopoly on violence.”

        Look at the shootings designed to herd the masses thru fear…almost all at GUN FREE ZONES where the easy targets are:

        • Congress woman Gifford
        • High School mass murders
        • Movie theater mass murders
        • Elementary School mass murders

        Ever notice no mass murders at hospitals? – No a gun free Zone.

        Now shootings at Firemen doing their jobs and at police at their homes with police cars parked. All designed to create FEAR and when people are afraid they will jump on the first wagon out of the fire. Guess who is driving the wagon?

        The elite psychopaths in the cesspool of Washington, D.C., and their communist cohorts.

        Time to make a stand America, the take over is almost complete:

        Differance between a slave and his master? The slave owns no guns.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Greg

        Vicki,

        You left out clubs (the first recorded murder was when Cain killed his brother, Abel, with a club), rocks, sticks, pool cues, kitchen knives and utensils, chain saws,,,etc…etc…..

      • factnotrhetoric

        The Federal Government has created “Gun Free Zones” or “Killing Zones” for our children.

        It has been proven over and over that creating “Gun Free Zones” increases the number of murders by firearms. This creates “Killing Zones” where only the criminals have guns.

        The 1990/1995 Gun-Free School Zones Act (GFSZA, codified at 18 U.S.C. § 922(q)) creates “Killing Zones” that the Federal Government mandates.

        This can easily be undone with:
        1) state laws
        2) or much simpler by the local Sheriff exercising his authority over federal laws and placing volunteer, trained, licensed people at each school.

        END THE GUN FREE ZONES OR KILLING ZONES IN YOUR COMMUNITY.

      • Bill

        We also need to outlaw obesity, because it kills millions of people each year

      • Harry

        Baseball bat control is not necessary! Ask Alex Rodriguez. He has a bat and he can’t hit anything!

      • JC

        factnotrhetoric says:
        December 31, 2012 at 9:21 am
        The Federal Government has created “Gun Free Zones” or “Killing Zones” for our children.
        _____________________________________________________________________

        Exactly right! And we are obligated “by law” to send our kids to these killing zones.
        And the Governments solution to a Government created problem?
        Negate the law of the land and Disarm law abiding Americans.
        Treason and Insanity.

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        That was funny Vicki but, don’t give these nazi’s any idea’s, LOL. Happy New Year:

      • Danny Pruitt

        Viciki, you are absolutely right….We MUST ban baseball bats.

      • John

        If you try to take our guns there will be war in our streets.We will not turn in our guns even if our gov. makes it a law,To us and our Constitution it will be an illegal law and unconstitutional.Most Americans are tired of our freedoms and rights being destroyed.This is where we draw the line,if I have to die for our rights,why should I be any different than the 1.3 million and counting that have already made the sacrifice to keep us a free nation

        • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog
          • Joe America

            China has the strictest gun laws in the world, and as a result of their totolitarian state, they have one of the most successful organ transplant organizations in the world. You go to China, and they simply take a Chinese political prisoner, kill them and take their organs, then sell them. Here’s the deal; you go to China, and go sight seeing for a few weeks, in the meantime, political foes are rounded up, typed and crossed, and HLA typed. They’re led into a mobile killing van, where they are euthanized, the organs are harvested and processed. The organs are brought to your hospital. You get those organs and head home. Art Caplan, America’s great ethics leader, speaks in this film, explaning in detail how this is done. For every person farting out of their mouths about gun control, this is what you are promoting. This is what’s coming for the entire world, once the world elite take over, and they will, because people just aren’t aware, of anything. Gun grabbers, watch this video and see what the future of gun control will eventually bring to you and your’s. Please remember, that the elite want to live forever, and that means using you and your children for spare parts. To the elite, we are all just cattle; walking meatsticks, existing for their use; their benefit. And, if you don’t serve a vital purpose for them, you will be gone; you whom they refer to as “The Usless Eaters”:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvAOOwvJMZs

      • Mikey

        Sandy Hook was a FALSE FLAG! I grew suspicious when the coroner stated that all the gunshot wounds were inflicted by a rifle, not by handguns. Then, video showed the police retrieving the rifle from the trunk of the shooters car…..he never took it into the school. Clearly there’s a problem here. Probably a hired gunman elsewhere. Then, look at this video…ALARMING:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eHv_RhVgfUQ

    • Pearline Brown

      As I stated before- Guns, knives, and other weapons doesn’t do anythings by themselves- except lay around and collect dust if they stay laying around long enough, but it is evil minded, sick minded, weak minded and sick opininated minded people that are the problem in most cases. STOP IT! DAMN IT!. To many people are losing their lives UNNECCESARYLY. My daughter was murdered at the age of 30 yrs. old, just a month and a few days prior to her 31 birthday and in front of her children, shouldn’t have happen, these children (babies) were at school trying to get an education and grow up to be decent law abiding humanbeings. Why can’ tyou show your face when writing this junk about taking Gun rights away. What and HOw many children of your awn have you Gun Nuts lost to Violent Acts committed by some suppose to be crazy person. They aren’t crazy, they are out to cause heart ache, pain, suffering,and death- just plain EVIL.. We need a Justice System with strong laws and criminal sentences for the crimes committed by criminals, if they don’t have the guts to take their own life, give them life in prison for the vicious/heinious crimes they commits. I tired of hearing about the criminals have rights. The moment they chose to use a weapon against anoughter humanbeing they gave their own rights aways to be a free person in world among decent humanbeing. The President and every Governor of the 5o states of the U.S. should come together and pass a Life In Prison Without Parole Law for these and all vicious, heinious, senseless, crimes committed whether its mass murder, murder, rape, or any other vicious crimes.

      • Bob

        You’re a dumb%^&!! Sorry about your loss, but the problem is PEOPLE…NOT GUNS!! And putting violent people in prison for life is not a good fix either. People that commit terrible crimes need to be put to death, not imprisoned for life that costs tax payers millions of dollars every year to support them.

      • charlie

        Pearline, I will bet that your daughter relied on the government for protection and other substances.
        She chose to be defenseless. I would also guess that you taught her all she knew.

      • http://www.facebook.com/nota.socialist Nota Socialist

        The only justice in this country, is for the Criminal…

        To hell with life in prison. A bullet in the brain, and move on.

      • mike r.

        A long rope

      • Don

        everything you said will never be because our government in dc is so into their power. our so called voted in representitives have become leaders, the ones who decide what we have and do, instead of the other way around. we have these anti gunners like mentioned in the articless,s enator chuck schemmer, rep carolyn mccarty, jerold nadler, senatorjay rockefeller, rep pelosi,feinstein and tons of power mad royalty who are supposed to represent the people but don’t. power comes first. they don’t realize but i believe they are most of the cause of this nations problems. look what they have doone to the economy. they gave companies breaks to move to other countries. we used to be an economic power when everything was made here. too bad everyone went for cheap. the national debt you created is hurting us bad and there does’nt appera to be an end in sight. i did not agree with the bush tax break when he put it in because this nation was having trouble paying its bills back then, but royalty decided that too. the fed was pushed in by the big bankers back in 1913. i’d almost bet they had something to do with the depression. now they have devalued our dollar to nothing. people do not realize it but it takes more devalued dollars to buy things that used to sell for less. its called inflation. our government is run on inflation. more spending and more money printing, all with the blessings of the royalty.. ron ppaul tried to combat the royalty but they kept him out. the royalty will probly keep him from the audit of the fed. most of the craap our royal leaders are trying to stop will only result in the loss of our freedoms. desparate people will do more things which the royalty will rob us of what we have as a free nation.

      • ranger09

        The justice system is ok, Its just the people that inforce it is the Problem, Start with the Judges, Then the Lawyers. And the biggest problem is the lawyers who want nothing but Making more Money At the Exspence of the Taxpayers. Example Man kills several people, Jury finds him guilty,Judge gives him the death Penalty. BUT the Lawyers and Other Judges keep him in jail for 27 years, and of course the Taxpayers are paying for his up keep.Then they decide its ok now to put him to death/ We need to stop this kind of Lawyer Control over our system. But Lawyers and Judges belong to the same Club. So much for Fair and swift Justice. About time Citizens started inforcing the law. How about the Parents and their Lawyer that wants to sue the state for 100 million because there child survived the Killings. People THEY are sueing not the govt BUT THE PEOPLE. Now these parents and their Lawyer should be put againest the wall.. Not to be grateful their child lived, BUT to punish the Parents those children died. How sad that people could do this.
        makes you thank about true and Swift Justice as some of the Arab countries dish out. Like we use to do ourselves But when you give the criminals more rights than the Honest citizens then you know we have a real problem.But for years now the Politicians have even been taking away our rights to even protect ourselves and our Familys.

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        Need to tell the idiot from the land of fruits and nuts to get rid of her concealled carry permit, how about it Feinstein?

      • http://www.facebook.com/thomas.sherman.589 tgsherman

        Have you ever heard of HITLER???

    • DaveH

      Anybody who thinks that our own Government would hesitate to treat us the way they treated the Iraqis, is just plain naive.

      • http://gravatar.com/cbgard Carlucci

        I agree with Mr. Livingston. Sandy Hook is obviously yet another false flag operation to
        (1.) Grab guns, and (2) Keep the American people in a state of constant fear and confusion, and when better to do that but around the holidays? My question is also why we never see televised footage of the angry parents/spouses, etc., of the people who got killed? Why is there always only one nutty shooter when other suspects are initially reported at the scene, like the “suspect” in the woods at Sandy Hook? The televised “news” stories are always changing, probably because the real truth might make the viewing audience snap out of their collective comas…

        I don’t think all of this is a co-incidence either:

        http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=4tixiugab&v=001iv6lNzjdvpMBGF_FhZdwxUgFhQApuS7ZQ_v7RLaVjUqNhFBNS6MuQ3eBAj2Nu7k0qCMoUITP4OQf1vS8AqlmMr-VD2UexqPhSd0-qPARBcHDPPlYTcL9KA%3D%3D

      • Cramer

        Sorry Dave but this is NOT our government. It is THE government and it respects you..NOT!

      • JUKEBOX

        I’d bet that Obama has a first edition, autographed copy of MEIN KAMPF by his bedside.

      • carrobin

        Incredible the stupid and/or paranoid “reasons” people give to hang onto their “Second Amendment right” to own lethal toys. Bet you guys don’t even know what the word “militia” means.

        • Garry

          That’s easy. “The People”

      • DaveH

        What is incredible carrobin is how you Liberal Progressives ignore all logic or statistical facts which prove that More Guns mean Less Crimes.
        Your Gun Control defenses are purely emotional.
        As to your question about what “militia means” see here:
        http://gunowners.org/op0848.htm

      • JC

        carrobin says:
        December 31, 2012 at 11:43 am
        Incredible the stupid and/or paranoid “reasons” people give to hang onto their “Second Amendment right” to own lethal toys. Bet you guys don’t even know what the word “militia” means.
        ______________________________________________________________________

        Listen up Moron,

        The Second Amendment is in place so that Americans can defend themselves, their homes, county, state and nation.
        The Militia is “We The People”.
        My guess is that your education is completely lacking in morality ethics and history, so why don’t you go sit in the corner, lick up a nice latte, and let the grown ups look after keeping the nations freedoms and liberties intact.

      • Charlie

        DaveH,,,
        Did “Your” government win the attack of Iraq ??? NO! because America created “Hate” that the Iraq live people will hold for at least the rest of their life… No known American will ever be safe in Iraq, without heavy security 24/7… After any so called war,,,IF,,,the Guerrillas hate you , you have lost the war…
        America was established under Biblical Law . Who is King Jesus? in The Bible? Well,,, The
        American Guerrillas,,,when they pop out of the wood works ,,,.”Your” government WILL NOT be in leadership of The American Guerrillas,,, King Jesus will be leading The American Militia and “Your” government won’t have enough toilet paper to clean their pants with ,,.so,,,the Guerrilla blood hounds will be able to smell “them” out easily….
        Meanwhile…………………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • JC

        Charlie, that’s almost exactly what DaveH said…without the religious aspect.

        • Kurt

          you express nothing but ignorant paranoia… except for the regrettable occasional mistakes made by Law enforcement breaking into the wrong home, which is an anomaly, you could name but a handful of times they have harmed any citizen like the Ruby Ridge incident… Sure once and a while you have had a rogue leader but it is definitely the exception. And your statement does not negate the absolute stupidity to say gun control advocates would stage the murder of innocents.. Unless the USA ceases to be a democracy your being invaded by law enforcement will statistically never happen.

      • Vicki

        carrobin says:
        “I Bet you guys don’t even know what the word “militia” means.”

        We are pretty sure that you don’t since you advocate disarming them.
        For a hint so that you might become more educated look up “10 U.S.C. § 311″

      • JC

        Kurt says:
        December 31, 2012 at 6:22 pm
        you express nothing but ignorant paranoia… except for the regrettable occasional mistakes made by Law enforcement breaking into the wrong home, which is an anomaly, you could name but a handful of times they have harmed any citizen like the Ruby Ridge incident… Sure once and a while you have had a rogue leader but it is definitely the exception. And your statement does not negate the absolute stupidity to say gun control advocates would stage the murder of innocents.. Unless the USA ceases to be a democracy your being invaded by law enforcement will statistically never happen.
        ______________________________________________________________________

        And if the USA ceases to be a “Democracy” will they tell us?
        Nope…they’ll just start kicking in doors. And who will be kicking in those doors?

        By the way…The United States are a Republic, not a Democracy.

      • Average Joe

        carrobin,
        For those of you who don’t understand the proper use of the English language, let me give you a refresher course:

        As passed by the Congress:

        A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

        The statement: “A well-regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state,”
        is often misunderstood to mean that you need to be in a militia in order to own firearms. Well, point in-fact, every male of draft age who is of sound body and mind is considered a member of the “unorganized militia” according to the law, but that’s irrelevant, because the second statement:
        “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
        is the important part.
        This statement is the crux of the amendment and ensures that the individual right to bear arms is not infringed upon. Now, the way this sentence is constructed (in total), the right of the people allows for the well-regulated militia. The militia is a byproduct of the right to bear arms, not a prerequisite.
        Here is the grammatical break down from the prof:[ Copperud:]
        The words “A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,” contrary to the interpretation cited in your letter of July 26, 1991, constitute a present participle, rather than a clause. It is used as an adjective, modifying ” militia,” which is followed by the main clause of the sentence (subject “the right,” verb “shall”). The right to keep and bear arms is asserted as essential for maintaining a militia.
        In reply to your numbered questions:

        [Schulman: (1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep and bear arms solely to "a well-regulated militia"?;]
        [ Copperud:] (1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by others than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect to a right of the people.

        [Schulman: (2) Is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" granted by the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a preexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state that such right "shall not be infringed"?;]
        [ Copperud:] (2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence is assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be preserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia.

        [Schulman: (3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms conditioned upon whether or not a well-regulated militia is, in fact, necessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not existing, is the statement "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" null and void?;]

        [ Copperud:] (3) No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence of a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the right to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated militia as requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence.
        [Schulman: (4) Does the clause "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," grant a right to the government to place conditions on the "right of the people to keep and bear arms," or is such right deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?;]

        [ Copperud:] (4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as previously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the militia.

        [Schulman: (5) Which of the following does the phrase " well-regulated militia" mean: "well-equipped," "well-organized," "well-drilled," "well-educated," or "subject to regulations of a superior authority"?]

        [ Copperud:] (5) The phrase means “subject to regulations of a superior authority”; this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian control over the military.
        [Schulman: If at all possible, I would ask you to take into account the changed meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written two-hundred years ago, but not to take into account historical interpretations of the intents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated.]

        [ Copperud:] To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the meaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the amendment. If it were written today, it might be put: “Since a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.”

        [Schulman:] As a “scientific control” on this analysis, I would also appreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second Amendment to the following sentence,
        “A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed.”

        My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,
        (1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence, and the way the words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment’s sentence?; and
        (2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict “the right of the people to keep and read Books” only to “a well-educated electorate” – for example, registered voters with a high-school diploma?]

        [ Copperud:] (1) Your “scientific control” sentence precisely parallels the amendment in grammatical structure.
        (2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the possibility of a restricted interpretation.

        (Roy Herman Copperud, a professor of journalism and an authority on the use of the English language.)

        The proper use of the English language is a wonderful thing…learn to use it….

        Got it? Good.

        AJ

      • DaveH

        Kurt says — “And your statement does not negate the absolute stupidity to say gun control advocates would stage the murder of innocents”.
        Kurt, you obviously live in the Propaganda Dream world that Leaders like their subjects to live in.
        First read this book:
        http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

        Civil War — 600,000+ dead and economies set back 5-10 years to solve the ego of a tyrant.
        WWI — 10,000,000 dead to preserve the prosperity of English Crony Capitalists.
        WWII — 50,000,000 dead as a result of Hitler’s election which was a result of the unfair Treaty of Versaille which was foisted on Germany by trickery.
        FDR provoked Japan in an effort to fool the American people into WWII. He was willing to sacrifice the lives of 2400 unsuspecting servicemen to rally the people to his lust for war.

        Do you really believe that people who fight so hard for a woman’s choice to kill her unborn baby, would balk at sacrificing 20 kids to get their way? Dream on, Kurt.

      • DaveH

        Kurt says — “except for the regrettable occasional mistakes made by Law enforcement breaking into the wrong home, which is an anomaly, you could name but a handful of times they have harmed any citizen like the Ruby Ridge incident”.

        You’ve forgotten about Waco?
        Obviously, Kurt, you have your head in the sand:
        http://www.cato.org/raidmap

        Imagine that, an ignorant person calling me ignorant.

    • Ron r

      Where is it in the 2nd amendment does it say ex fellons can not have fire arms? Jessie James is rolling in his grave. No one wants to take guns from responsible owners. Just those who should not have them.

      • DaveH

        Bull scat.

      • JC

        Well Ron,

        We already have laws to that effect…how’s that working out?

      • Charlie

        Jesse James , a very Biblical name. The “Spirit” of Jesse is alive and well today in America.
        King Jesus Christ was known as the Son of David, David was the son of Jesse…
        Meanwhile……………..
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • Vicki

        Ron r writes:
        “Where is it in the 2nd amendment does it say ex fellons can not have fire arms?”

        No where. It could be inferred from Amendment 5 “… nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;…”

        The problem is that if there is no end to the punishment for a crime why should an ex-con ever bother to become a responsible citizen. Besides if they are still dangerous why are they allowed out where they can get easy access to a range of tools to continue to be dangerous.

    • Bob

      Crazy country we live in……yes it’s a sad day when a mentally ill person can take anyone by surprise in killing the innocent. What happened to raising the kids by both parents with the three R’s: Responsible, relationship and respect of yourself and others. Exactly what happens when you don’t have any solid moral foundation based upon God in the home, school or workplace.

      The 1% have been stirred into a frenzy by the media and a many of our out of touch politicians, trying to fix everything with another set of laws. Heck they don’t enforce the ones already on the books, or we wouldn’t have the problems dealt with in the first place. How about being moved in saving the 1.2 million lives taken by abortions every year in the USA.

    • http://gravatar.com/patriot516 patriot516

      While the liberal socialist’s within our government are in the process of conveniently handpicking which amendments to dismantle in order to bring about global enslavement of all mankind; why don’t the more liberty minded, rational members balance this by attacking the 16th amendment. I propose we do away with all direct taxation that flows from individuals and corporations to the central government, by forcing them to get funding from the States, on a voluntary basis. Think of the power this would give back to the people! If congress and the Senate could accomplish this, it would save the US taxpayer trillions of dollars every year. No long would congressman have to beg and plead, just to get back their voters hard earned tax dollars from the central government. They wouldn’t have to tack on pork barrel appropriations to bills that are unrelated to their causes. This one simple reversing of the tax flow would resolve a very large portion of this countries corrupt and unconstitutional spending problems. Use your imagination, and I bet all of you could come up with how this would benefit all of us, except the central government. Imagine, only States impose income taxes. This would promote competition between the States since, if a State’s citizens did not feel they were getting their moneys worth, they could simply move to a State that supports their ideals. The efficency of reversing the flow would be astronomical, what ever is left over from the State, could be slated for the central government, if they behaved!

      • Joe America

        I couldn’t agree with you more. The problem is that the average American is so ignorant of the Constitution, Bill of Rights and the history of this nation, that they won’t cry about loss of freedom until they’re being shoved into the gas chambers and the ovens are burning bodies 24/7. This is what happens when a people become brain dead, lazy and slothful, having had an easy life, never really knowning tryranny. When I read the glib anti-gun, anti-freedom post by brain dead liberals, I know we’re doomed, as a nation. These idiots won’t wake up until they see their grandchildren being freely abused and killed by the elite. I’ve never seen so many people, so willing to run into the gas chambers. Truly, history has not affected their outlook on the power elite, because they’re ignorant of history. And, those who ignore history are bound to repeat it. Only fools believe that what happened to the Germans people and the Jews prior to and during WWII, cannot happen, again, here in America. The fact is, you have the same players, the same controllers, and the same power elite push the same agenda, which is world domination. It’s the elite aristocrats desiring to return to the bad old days, when there were only lords and surfs; and certainly no upstart middle class. And, in order to return to those days, America must go, and along with it, the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And, to make that happen, the second ammendment must go. After all, you can’t have victims shooting at you. They need to be docile and unarmed. That way, they can be safely tucked into concentration camps, into forced labor, and then, when the time comes and they are no longer useful, the gas chambers and then ovens. In the end, the world population will be brought down to a 1/2 billion people. A much more managable number.

    • http://wildblue.net bungal

      We know voters for Obama were in 3 basic groups. 1) “I got a cell phone from Obama”, meaning the not too bright. 2) Radical feminists and other radical Liberals. 3) supporters of Communism. It reminds me of Roger Moore and his love of radical Socialism and unionization when he visited his pal in Cuba.

      We know the biggest problem in trying to keep our rights is the media. If the media on the left would tell the truth and I mean all the truth, Obama would have been impeached in his first term. He certainly has done enough against his own oath of office to be.

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      CZ52 your comment makes too much sense and since the left doesn’t really have a brain because all they do is on feelings and emotions I’m afraid they will just call you names as they always do but won’t admit too but, if they had their way once again, Hitler would be proud of all the little nazi’s as history repeats itself. Forgot, they don’t read history, they just re-write it and teach our children lies instead of the truth but, have never seen a left wing nut joke that was shamed by their lie’s. God Bless Friend:

  • CZ52

    Very insightful article Mr Livingston. Of course I am sure eddie, Flashy, nc, and others will meet your comments with poor attempts at ridicule and false “facts” that prove nothing in an attempt to discredit you.

    • Robert Smith

      From Mr. Livingston’s article: “Whether the gun grabbers orchestrated the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre”

      Really?

      I can’t come up with a tin foil hat remark that even comes close to expressing how loathsome a comment such as yours is.

      Are you so out of ligitimate arguments and so filled with hate that you feel compelled to come up with such a fiction?

      Rob

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Robert Smith,

        You write: “I can’t come up with a tin foil hat remark that even comes close to expressing how loathsome a comment such as yours is.” This from a man who posts “loathsome” and blasphemous remarks on a daily basis.

        You write: “Are you so out of ligitimate arguments and so filled with hate that you feel compelled to come up with such a fiction?” The fiction is in the story line proffered by the MSM. http://globalpoliticalawakening.blogspot.com/2012/12/sandy-hook-massacre-official-story_21.html

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Robert Smith

        Bob Livingston claims: “This from a man who posts “loathsome” and blasphemous remarks on a daily basis.”

        Really? Are there any that are untrue? How many kids were killed when THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF EARTH was wiped out, except Noah and his family?

        How many kids were in Sodom and Ghmaora?

        Did Lot, or did Lot not have sex with his virgin daughters?

        I’m simply pinting things out without all the chapter and verse numbers, etc. It’s all there for folks to read.

        But for someone to accuse anyone of such a shooting for oganized political gain in America on the basis of the fog of early reporting is simply stretching to make an argument and distract from the real issues that have confronted America because of this horribl incident.

        We need to consider a better mental health care system. Reagan’s dumping them in the streets has failed.

        Rob

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Robert Smith,

          You write: “I’m simply pinting (sic) things out without all the chapter and verse numbers, etc. It’s all there for folks to read.” As is often the case, you are be duplicitous. You know that “p(o)inting things out” is not what I’m referring to.

          You write: “But for someone to accuse anyone of such a shooting for oganized political gain in America on the basis of the fog of early reporting is simply stretching to make an argument and distract from the real issues that have confronted America because of this horribl (sic) incident.” Because the U.S. government has never intentionally killed or make plans to kill their own people, right? http://www.911review.com/articles/anon/false_flag_perations.html See also Operation Northwoods.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • DaveH

        Robert issues the typical dumbass emotional Liberal Progressive argument.
        Those who think Government isn’t capable of killing people at will, to achieve their goals, need to read this:
        http://library.mises.org/books/Percy%20L%20Greaves,%20Jr/Pearl%20Harbor%20The%20Seeds%20and%20Fruits%20of%20Infamy.pdf

      • DaveH
      • DaveH

        Robert says — “Really? Are there any that are untrue? How many kids were killed when THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF EARTH was wiped out, except Noah and his family?”.

        Can you be any more ridiculous, Robert?

        Another example of the typical Liberal Progressive who wants to run your lives, Folks.

      • Capitalist at Birth.

        You are 100% correct, that we need a better mental health system to eliminate idiots like you from participating in rational discussions, as you have proven time an time again that you are not rational. Actually, it would be better to provide concerned Americans with vouchers to enable them to pull their children out of our Totalitarian public school system where they are being dumbed down, as evidently you were. Mr. Smith.

      • DaveH

        Even more ridiculous is the charge of “loathsome”, that was directed at Bob for daring to suggest that the killings might have been perpetrated by Government, by Robert who quite regularly stumps for the killing of unborn infants.
        So let’s get this straight. His heart bleeds for the youth, but only after they’re born?
        And then he doesn’t really give a hoot that those deaths were a direct result of the teachers and administrators inability to protect themselves and their kids because they were disarmed by the so-called “compassionate” Liberal Progressives.
        Robert, you are one twisted individual. But then, I guess you blend right in with your Liberal Progressive cohorts.

      • Bill

        The most people killed in the last century was from communism. Stalin and Mao were the largest perpetrators and one thing was in common, the public was disarmed.

        Robert,
        You are living in a little bubble and if you do not learn from history, it will repat itself

      • JC

        Robert,

        Any thinking person can see the inconsistencies in the ever evolving “facts” around Sandy Hook. Whether or not it was a false flag operation is something that should be considered in light of the “fact” that the authorities just can’t seem to get their story straight.
        There are a good many reasonable questions that need to be answered in order for any of this to make sense….so far, nothing is forthcoming.
        Which begs the ultimate question: What are they hiding?

      • S.C.Murf

        rob smith you are a satanist aren’t you. All of the vile, hate filled lies you spew against God, you really hate Him don’t you. I pity you

        up the hill
        airborne

      • JUKEBOX

        If you can’t fathom the fact of DOJ’s Fast & Furious campaign, which has resulted in so many deaths in the U.S. and Mexico, was concocted by OUR government, then you are so gullible to believe that Saddam Hussein, Adolph Hitler, Assad, etc. never killed any of their citizens either.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Robert: Really? Are there any that are untrue? How many kids were killed when THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF EARTH was wiped out, except Noah and his family?

        How many children have been wipe-out through abortion, except for the murderers?

        Robert: How many kids were in Sodom and Ghmaora?

        How many children that never made out of abortion-clinics alive?

        Robert: Did Lot, or did Lot not have sex with his virgin daughters?

        Do you envy Lot?

        Robert: I’m simply pinting things out without all the chapter and verse numbers, etc. It’s all there for folks to read.

        So are your insane-comments!

        Robert: But for someone to accuse anyone of such a shooting for oganized political gain in America on the basis of the fog of early reporting is simply stretching to make an argument and distract from the real issues that have confronted America because of this horribl incident.

        I disagree, it is rather to focus on the real issues that have confronted America because of this horrible and contrived-incident!

        Robert: We need to consider a better mental health care system. Reagan’s dumping them in the streets has failed.

        Careful what you say, Robert. The Psychiatric-community will not take kindly to your suggestion to replace them with a more humane-system, and, should you persist, expect a butterfly-net with your name on it!

      • Robert Smith

        DavidH posted: http://library.mises.org/books/Percy%20L%20Greaves,%20Jr/Pearl%20Harbor%20The%20Seeds%20and%20Fruits%20of%20Infamy.pdf

        I actually read some of it. There wasn’t anything new or revolutionary about who knew what when before the attack on Perl Harbor. What’s new is drawing a few lines that may or man not have been drawn AT THAT TIME. Each one piled atop another weaves a cover-up of immense proportions. But like the game, if some of the sticks are removed the entire thing falls.

        And there is the problem, David. The “facts” don’t actually lead to conclusions unless one really really wants to see that conclusion.

        Rob

      • JC

        And there is the problem, David. The “facts” don’t actually lead to conclusions unless one really really wants to see that conclusion.

        Rob
        _______________________________________________________________________

        The “facts” lead to the conclusion that someone is lying through their teeth about this whole “tragedy”. And now the Anti American gun grabbing NAZI’s are using this pack of lies to predicate yet another power grab by trying to disarm Americans for reasons based on lies…

        Wake up Moron!

      • Robert Smith

        From Mr. Livingston’s reference: “The Flying Tigers volunteer air group successfully fighting the Japanese in China with some 90 fairly modern P-40Bs was another effective provocation that is not generally acknowledged by historical accounts of World War 2, most of which fail to mention any air combat action prior to 7th December 1941. ”

        Not mentioned?

        I wonder what John Wayne would think about that. Remember, he did a movie about the Flying Tigers. You can watch it on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzSDkG3yQAc

        Remember how Chennault was on the cover of Time for his efforts?

        Remember Pappy Boyington? He was a hero during that time.

        It’s just crazy to say there were no historical accounts, particularly when John Wayne and Robert Conrad were involved.

        Rob

      • Charlie

        Robert Smith,,,
        Heathen ,you branded yourself a liar way back with your ignorance of “Scripture”………..
        When you print misinformation almost every time you comment……………
        Saturate your mind with Scripture , that will flush out most lies… Meanwhile………….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 238 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • Robert Smith

        From Bob Livingston: “http://www.911review.com/articles/anon/false_flag_perations.html”

        ROFL… From that I picked up: “Six days later the US invaded, with the proffered reason that the American medical students studying in the Grenada were in danger due the Cuban presence. The new leader supported by the US favoured more traditional values and the right.”

        Great leader from the right, Ronald Reagan brought that for America to wake up to, and Clint Eastwood made it a war movie!

        BTW, except for the thing in Iraq it looks like it’s ALL from the right. In fact Iraq started in 1953 when the CIA moved the Shaw in, but who wants go to back that far?

        Rob

      • Robert Smith

        JC tries to convince us: “The “facts” lead to the conclusion that someone is lying through their teeth about this whole “tragedy”.”

        Really? It’s much easier to believe what I saw with my own eyes as it unfolded that day. Certainly there was some “fog” but particularly early in the game WFSB out of Hartford wasn’t backing away from the story in spite of not broadcasting a clue of the horror that had occurred. They knew, couldn’t believe, and finally had to break the story after it was verified.

        Could it be the right wing that has absolutely NO way to get folks to understand that it was a nut job who pulled it off because they are too busy trying to distract from the truth?

        BOTH extremes are wrong. We don’t need more gun control. We don’t need more guns. Neither will make any difference.

        We need better mental health care in America.

        If folks can get on the same page there is at least a chance of fewer of these events.

        Rob

      • JC

        Robert Smith says:
        December 31, 2012 at 5:10 pm
        JC tries to convince us: “The “facts” lead to the conclusion that someone is lying through their teeth about this whole “tragedy”.”

        Really? It’s much easier to believe what I saw with my own eyes as it unfolded that day. Certainly there was some “fog” but particularly early in the game WFSB out of Hartford wasn’t backing away from the story in spite of not broadcasting a clue of the horror that had occurred. They knew, couldn’t believe, and finally had to break the story after it was verified.
        _______________________________________________________________

        And then changed the next day and again the day after…another “evolving event”?
        I’ll call it like I see it…there’s a cover up going on.

      • DaveH

        Robert says — “And there is the problem, David. The “facts” don’t actually lead to conclusions unless one really really wants to see that conclusion”.

        I make my judgements based on logic and experience, not what I want to believe. Emotional judgements are your problem, Robert, not mine.

  • Vicki

    Bob Livingston writes:
    “According to the outline of Feinstein’s bill, it will grandfather in all legally owned weapons, but it will require they be registered and the owner fingerprinted. It will require a $200 per weapon tax be paid. The guns will not be transferable, meaning that upon the death of the owner the guns will become the property of the Federal government. ”

    I can’t help but notice the similarity to another bill. The 1934 NFA requiring the registration of certain firearms and a $200 per weapon tax. A law created in response to a messy mass shooting of the time.

    “1934: National Firearms Act Brings About First Major Gun Control

    The first major effort to eliminate private ownership of firearms came with the National Firearms Act of 1934. A direct response of the rise of gangster violence in general, and the Saint Valentine’s Day massacre in particular, the National Firearms Act sought to circumvent the Second Amendment by controlling firearms through a tax excise ($200 for each gun sale).”
    http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/Second-Amendment-History.htm

    A law who’s intent was to violate the U.S. Constitution.

    • Vicki

      In another thread I notice that the intent of the Feinstein bill is to add any existing firearm that she doesn’t like to the list of NFA covered firearms.
      http://personalliberty.com/2012/12/31/the-gun-control-debate-continues/

      • JUKEBOX

        To quote Charlton Heston: “FROM MY COLD DEAD HAND”.

      • JC

        Seems like a good day to hit the firing range…with a Brand new Semi-Auto.
        Get em while they’re hot folks. ;-)

      • JeffH

        JC, I p/u my new semi-auto Benelli M2 American 20ga on thursday and I’ll be shooting it on Saturday morning barring rain. Who knows, maybe I’ll take all my guns out and run some serious lead thru the bores.

        GOD, how I love my guns!(chuckle, chuckle)

      • JC

        I’m looking at a CZ858.
        Good for keeping packs of wolves at bay. ;-)

      • JeffH

        JC, nice. In my opinion superior to the AK’s in the US market.

      • JC

        JeffH,

        They’re priced right too. 700.00 and it comes with detachable bayonet, 4 – 7.62 / 20 rnd mags, a carrying case and bi-pod. Pretty good package all around.
        Let me know how the Benelli works. I have Mossberg 12 ga. semi auto.
        It kicks like a mule so the semi-auto aspect is almost useless in that I can’t keep it on target for two quick shots in a row….but then again 00 buck at close range doesn’t require a lot of aiming. :-)

        Have a great New Year.

    • ranger09

      Heres an answer to some of you out there. When i was in the military and later attached to DOD. We were taught that there is THREE KINDS of people that you can recruit to do all sort of jobs, Even Murder. #1 was an uneducated American that was raised to belive anything his countrys Leaders Told him it was the right thing to do, For the Protection of the People and his Country. And this included what a lot of us would consider Murder. #2 Is the very weak minded person or a person with mental problems that is easy to control. #1 was used a lot until they started asking to many questions about was this Right or Wrong, Then they were no longer Needed. #2 was the type of person you only used once maybe twice, Then they were no longer needed. Today a lot of americans fit into group one. #2 is the most i feared,and with the right drugs they could pull the trigger on themselves. And now about #3 This is a person on death row, This country or other Countries. Some of these people have nothing to lose, but everything to gain, A pardon, Lots of Money,New ID, Even if they died during the attempt they were hired to do, They were also told their Familys would be taked care of. These people in group #3 were always used to commit Assinations, Or murder one in the same. The people do not seem to understand that the Powers to Be care Nothing about people and their Lives, Only their Own. And they are able to carry out their plans with out remorse.

    • Robert Smith

      From Vicki: “The 1934 NFA requiring the registration of certain firearms and a $200 per weapon tax. A law created in response to a messy mass shooting of the time.”

      The problem was with fully automatic Tommy Guns and the BARs in criminal hands during the PROHIBITION of alcohol. It’s amazing how much violence today relates to the PROHIBITION of some recreational drugs today.

      Why not advocate for the decriminalize some recreational drugs? Isn’t the chance a kid may get stoned stealing some from a parent better than a kid getting killed in a crossfire?

      Rob

      • Vicki

        Robert Smith writes:
        “Why not advocate for the decriminalize some recreational drugs? ”

        You late to the party Robert?

  • Harold Olsen

    At least Feinstein is only (so far) calling on a ban of just so-called assault weapons. Obama has said he wants ALL guns banned. The first thing all despots to is limit free speech and disarm its citizens. Obama is attempting both.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Harold Olsen,

      You write: “At least Feinstein is only (so far) calling on a ban of just so-called assault weapons.” That is patently untrue. Her bill bans handguns and shotguns as well. Read the link I provided.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • FreedomFighter

        To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.
        – George Mason

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • maryp1217

        How come you didn’t correct her comment claiming that President Obama said he wants to ban ALL guns? He never said any such thing. In fact, he actually expanded gun rights. I also agree with another poster in here. Your implication that those in favor of sensible gun regulations somehow were behind this horrible tragedy is a new low for even you.

      • DaveH

        You are hopelessly clueless, Mary:
        http://gunowners.org/op03242009.htm

      • brand inspector

        All the socialist democrata have blessed the UN mandate of stopping privately owned hand gun, amunition of any type and all rifles. The phrase of assult rifles is another media created name. Guns of any type are either fully auto or not,, all guns that are owned by the public, are one shot at a time with a trigger being squeezed each shoot. If you are a citizen with a fully automatic, you are on the federal NCIC file and our property can be searched at ant time and with out a search warrant. I see the jug eared maddrass educated idoit was sqandering more of our tax payers money, by giving federal dead rearend emplotee got 2% raises, or if a new House member anbout $4000 a year increase Of course a skulb like jugears wastes on average 5 million a trip to play pasture pool.

      • Flashy

        The basics about what Sen. Feinstein is stating will be introduced in January. Oh horrors! If we are fortunate, this will be strengthened. It fails to attack the suppliers and fails to ensure anyone walking public streets with a CWP knows what they are doing and how to handle the weapon and any situation that arises.

        Time to stop the insanity …

        ===============
        Stops the sale, transfer, importation and manufacturing of more than 100 specifically-named firearms as well as certain semiautomatic rifles, handguns and shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.

        Stops the sale, transfer, importation and manufacturing of large-capacity ammunition feeding devices (magazines, strips and drums) capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.

        Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:
        = grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment;
        = exempting more than 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting and sporting purposes; and
        = exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons.

    • Ted Crawford

      ‘Death by a Thopusand Cuts’
      ” The goal is an ultimate ban on all Guns, but we have to take a step at a time and go for limited access first” Jayner Sims

    • JUKEBOX

      Obama is wanting to comply with the wishes of his Communist Chinese masters, who are demanding that all Americans be disarmed.

      • Robert Smith

        And the source for that is…

        Or, did it just come out from under a tin foil hat?

        Rob

      • Robert Smith

        Maybe the answer is: Tin foil… Depends.

        Seems more accurate in light of the “information.”

        Rob

      • Vicki

        Considering what is now known about tin foil Robert I would think you would stop trying to use the demonetization of the rather smart people that know how to use them as an argument to ridicule people that don’t agree with you.

        http://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/letters-future-military-technologies/4.html#top

      • Bill

        Robert,
        It was in the newspaper

      • Robert Smith

        Newspaper? Got a citation?

        Sure looks like it was made it up.

        Rob

  • hipshotpercusion

    If these walking bags of putrid excrement manage to get this get this passed, I will be dead soon after. I will not go lightly into the long night of Communist/Socialist slavery. I will die with my smoking hot semi auto rifle in my hands, not on my face with a jackboot on my neck.I am a 3%er!

    • FreedomFighter

      I fear not death, I do fear enslavement for both myself, children and family.

      Live free or die,

      History illustrates with stark brutality, No other choice, slaves just die slower, more painfull deaths.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • JUKEBOX

        After 73 years of relative freedom, I do not wish to live under a Communist dictator.

    • maryp1217

      That sounds like a similar threat made by Nugent if President Obama won reelection. We’re still waiting…….It sounds to me as though you’re one of those people who have to buy their guns through no-background check sales since you clearly exhibit signs of being mentally ill.

      • cawmun cents

        Yes….like all peaceful liberty loving Americans,you can accuse us of being crazy.
        But that wont stop us from defending our freedoms.
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • JC

        And you clearly demonstrate that you are a well trained sheep, harping away with your propaganda. Why don’t you move to England or Australia where you can “feel” safe?
        After all, those governments are doing such a wonderful job of protecting their citizens…right? Begone socialist…get away from moral people with your message of slavery.

      • hipshotpercusion

        You know nothing about me. For your information, I hold a concealed weapons license in my State and am a former Federally licensed firearms dealer and manufacturer. I subscribe to the ideals of our founding fathers as written in The Declaration of Independence. I would rather die standing on my feet than live on my knees. And, if that makes me crazy, I’m in better company than you.

      • JUKEBOX

        None of my guns have been through a background check, and one has been in my family for nearly a hundred years, and I have personally had one for over fifty years. Background checks were a figment of deranged liberal minds when I was a young man.

  • Ann

    There are more murders committed by abortionists in this country then guns or knives or accidents, if you want to ban something ban abortions, I don’t want to hear one word from you pro abortionists about your rights that say.. ( A fetus isn’t viable) I offer this to you.. It takes a live sperm to fertilize an a live egg and 9 days after conception a heart is begining form. It has all the DNA of it’s parents at the first division of the first cell. It is murder. Ban Guns? In the not to distant past our Schools Taught Firearm safety to students who joined the Drill Team, we had Archery and Fencing too. WE competed across the country with different states. How fast we forget our past our schools were much safer back them and violence was almost unheard of. DON’T TREAD ON MY RIGHTS..We must learn from our past and why we have these Amendments and why our schools taught these defences to students.

    • nc

      Ann, what part of pro choice do you not understand? No one favors abortion for the sake of killing some one! What we favor is a situation where the government does not take away the right of a living THINKING citizen to control their own body over some one else trying to control it over a hand full of cells that don’t know they exist! Cells that don’t have other children to care for! Cells that have yet to know the anguish of any decision! Cells at a stage that the Constitution does not protect! See Roe V Wade !
      We must protect our Constitution!! Right??

      • Nobody’s Fool

        And what choice does the baby get?? Pro “choice” only means pro death, for the convenience of the “mother” or carrier, I should say. Every fourth baby dies from “Choice”.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        nc: Ann, what part of pro choice do you not understand? No one favors abortion for the sake of killing some one!

        But that is precisely what is accomplished via the abortion-proccedure; the killing of someone!

        nc: What we favor is a situation where the government does not take away the right of a living THINKING citizen to control their own body over some one else trying to control it over a hand full of cells that don’t know they exist!

        Percentage of abortions performed at each stage of pregnancy:

        Less than 9 weeks 61.8% yearly= 749,232

        9-10 weeks 17.1% yearly= 207,312

        11-12 weeks 9.1% yearly= 110,324

        13-15 weeks 6.6% yearly= 80,015

        16-20 weeks 3.8% yearly= 46,069

        21+ weeks 1.5% yearly= 18,185

        At 9 weeks, the new resident is nearly an inch long — about the size of a grape — and weighs just a fraction of an ounce. She’s starting to look more and more human. Her essential body parts are accounted for, though they’ll go through plenty of fine-tuning in the coming months. Other changes abound: Your baby’s heart finishes dividing into four chambers, and the valves start to form — as do her tiny teeth.

        The embryonic “tail” is completely gone. Your baby’s organs, muscles, and nerves are kicking into gear. The external sex organs are there but won’t be distinguishable as male or female for another few weeks. Her eyes are fully formed, but her eyelids are fused shut and won’t open until 27 weeks. She has tiny earlobes, and her mouth, nose, and nostrils are more distinct. The placenta is developed enough now to take over most of the critical job of producing hormones. Now that your baby’s basic physiology is in place, she’s poised for rapid weight gain.

        Sounds more then a hand-full of cells to me, nc.

        nc: Cells that don’t have other children to care for! Cells that have yet to know the anguish of any decision! Cells at a stage that the Constitution does not protect! See Roe V Wade !
        We must protect our Constitution!! Right??

        Nowhere in the Constitution are you granted the right to commit murder, nc! You are clearly confused, or perhaps, clinically-insane!

      • Ted Crawford

        By what standard of judgement is it considered, more morally justified to Legally Protect an Eagles egg, than a Human Fetus?! This Startling Hypocrisy boggles the mind!
        Before you jump on your rant against Religion, you should know that I’m a Deist and hold NO belief in the Judeo Christian God!
        My conserns are based on common sense morals only!

      • American Girl

        nc says: What we favor is a situation where the government does not take away the right of a living THINKING citizen to control their own body over some one else trying to control it over a hand full of cells that don’t know they exist!

        I agree… everyone has the right to control their own body. What we do NOT have is a right to someone else’s body… meaning the helpless baby in the womb. The unborn child is NOT another part of the mother’s body… he/she is simply a resident there.

      • Joe

        IF, you BELIEVE in GOD, i woul love to hear you explain this to him.

      • czman75

        Too bad your “carrier” did not exercise choice. You and people like you, are the problem and not the solution! No where in the Constitution is it given, permission to abort, slay, kill babies! the embryo is a living entity from conception and yes, the baby has rights. You don’t want to have a baby? don’t get pregnant! (and don’t expect me to pay for birth control, either!) Perhaps you should just get sterilized so you won’t have to kill a baby!

      • Capitalist at Birth.

        You are an ignorant immoral fool. What is it that, you don’t understand about taking a life, even if it is in your own body, it is still immoral. You evidently do not believe in the God of the Bible, nor choose to follow Jesus path. May God have mercy on your soul.

      • DaveH

        So let me get this straight, NC. You want Pro-Choice for mothers to kill their unborn children, but you don’t want Pro-Choice for the mothers who want to send their kids to schools where the administrators and teachers are allowed to carry Protection for them and their children?

        What kind of twisted, inconsistent logic is that? Oh yeah — Liberal Progressive logic (or lack of).

      • DaveH

        NC says — “We must protect our Constitution!! Right??”.
        Where in the Constitution, NC, does it say anything at all about abortions, and the Federal right to control them?

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        nc says: what part of choice do you not understand?

        I ask YOU the SAME question! What part of choice do YOU not understand?!? A woman’s choice (AND a man’s) takes place BEFORE conception occurs!!! It is a CHOICE whether or not to have unprotected sex! It is also a CHOICE (except in cases of rape) whether or not to have sex!!! THAT is where CHOICE comes into play!!! Babies are NOT disposable!!! If you or anyone you’re close to had ever had a miscarriage or premature delivery, you would KNOW that these are BABIES, NOT a collection of cells!!! My son and his wife delivered triplets at under 20 weeks. They were perfectly formed, beautiful, human BABIES!!! NO ONE could look at these BABIES and call them a collection of cells!!! Killing is killing!!! Murder is murder!!! Killing babies is murder!!! If you have unprotected sex that results in pregnancy, you made your choice!!! Now, man up and deal with it!!! People have become so self centered and irresponsible that they think that they can do whatever they want without consequence!!! THIS is what is destroying our nation! Murder is NOT a choice!!!

      • Garry

        If it were about controlling your body, that should begin with the decision to have sex. You are controlling the outcome of your lack of control with an abortion.

      • Hedgehog

        Then why did you permit passage of the NDAA? You should have taken up arms in revolt and executed every legislator who voted for that act! Just as we should have revolted here in Canada when our government invoked the War Measures Act at the time of the FLQ crisis. But we didn’t and we still don’t know how many people were arrested, imprisoned or executed under that act! Learn from our mistakes!

      • Robert Smith

        Gary says: “If it were about controlling your body, that should begin with the decision to have sex. ”

        Well… Actually sex isn’t always involved. Just ask the virgin Marry or the guy who married her, Joe.

        Maybe it’s god control we need when it comes to pregnancy? Remember on October 24, 2012 4:43 PM Indiana Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock spouted off that a pregnancy resulting from rape was “a gift from God.”

        Excuse me, I know some folks who are dealing with gift returns this season. Not everyone likes Mourdock’s god’s “gifts.”

        Rob

        • Garry

          Way to deflect Robert. I’m sure you don’t believe the story of the Bible, but that’s ok with me. It’s your salvation, not mine. So, 99.99999999999% of life beings through sexual procreation.
          As to Mourdock, again you deflect and deceive. You spout the liberal MSM talking point rather than what he actually said. His statement: Rape is a horrible thing and no one condones it. Having said that the child in the womb is still a human life and is such a gift from God to be cherished.
          Alynsky would be proud of you, keep up the good work.

      • DaveH

        How do you Liberal Progressives live with yourselves, Robert?
        Your Principles change whenever it suits your purpose.
        Some kids are okay to kill. But others aren’t okay. Of course those of us, who can think, know that really all you hypocrites want is to ban guns so you can more easily accomplish your theft of other peoples’ property.

    • JUKEBOX

      Ann, why don’t you get a law passed to register coat hangers and catheters used to perform abortions. They have killed more humans than any guns ever have.

      • ranger09

        Amazing how we are so strong about protecting an unborn Baby, But we are so quick to send our 17-30 young children in to brutal useless wars to be killed and maimed, But thats the way we are. Heck do i hear you Blaming the Powers to Be because they are the ones to blame, Just amazing how we look at things. In the world if you stopped abortion We would have about 10 million children facing Hunger and starvation, Being born drug addicks, Being born with major brain damage. Are you people going to accept the responsibility for them. Hell No you just talk Crap, See the real world as it is.

        • Joe America

          Ranger, the power elite want the numbers of humans down by 90% and they don’t care how it’s done, just so it’s done.

    • Robert Smith

      Let’s watch Ann slam her religion down our throats again: “There are more murders committed by abortionists in this country then guns or knives or accidents,…”

      Not so Ann, Outside the context of your beliefs abortion is mostly legal in most of America. It was voted that way in several states before Roe v. Wade. The PEOPLE decided it and would have voted it into our lives had not Roe v. Wade come to pass, just like same sex marriage is doing today. Several states have VOTED on it, and I’m pretty sure some case will make it legal in all of America.

      Your idea of DNA being a “human being” has absolutely zero credibility, as an acorn (with all the DNA needed for a tree) isn’t a tree. It’s tough to build much out of acorns. You can’t argue that they are the same.

      Oh, nine days to a “beating heart.” Wow! How long before it has some brain cells to rub together? So, if there is no brain what do you call it? How do you define anything to be “human” without a brain?

      Oh!!!! I get it! An ape with 98% human DNA isn’t a “human being” but a Thalamide baby with corrupted human genes is 100%. Seems to me you have a lot of ‘splaining to do.

      Rob

      • ranger09

        These people have never seen the real world as it is.They have never seen a 2yr old laying on the street starving, with its bones sticking out ETc ETC, And for you people it looks like some of the people in the camps in ww2. Dieing ea day. what would be better. Abortion or a very painful death.Etc. People before you decide on this issue SEE THE REAL WORLD, Then decide. And for you people saying this is Gods Will, Thank again, because if so Hes not doing a very good job.

  • Lawrence

    They want to take from us what they can use against us. Think about it….

    • nc

      Lawrence, I have thought about it and I have seen so little evidence that the government wants all of my weapons, my neighbor’s weapons or YOUR weapons that I have decided that either you live in a totally different part of the country where guns are being confiscated or you are hopelessly paranoid! Our President has said that they do not want the weapons you have but that we need to take a look at the necessity of having the types of guns that have killed so many of our citizens! Just part of his oath to protect us!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        nc: Lawrence, I have thought about it and I have seen so little evidence that the government wants all of my weapons…

        Rather than thinking about it, you should perhaps study the evidence?

        nc: Our President has said that they do not want the weapons you have but that we need to take a look at the necessity of having the types of guns that have killed so many of our citizens!

        The number of people killed by guns is negligible, insignificant, when compared to the number of people who die at the hands of big-Pharma, abortion, alcohol, tobacco, suicides, war…compared to all those causes of death, the number of deaths caused by guns each year is but a blip on the radar; barely observable. So stop your childish-nonsense, nc. Most here are aware that you a shill…

        nc: Just part of his oath to protect us!

        Protect us from what? A better question; who will protect us from Obama, and his Nazi-Ghouls???

      • Capitalist at Birth.

        Obama, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Castro. What do all of these totalitarians in common. Firs they took over health care, then they took the guns. Obama desires to do it, he just hasn’t accomplished it, yet. We are all afraid he will. If that is paranoid, so be it. Evidently you have failed to enlighten yourself about Obama and his upbringing and true beliefs. I am sorry for you. You are either a dupe or a Comrade. Which is it. Either way you will not be a winner when it is all said and done.

        • tony newbill

          The leaders you asked what they all had in common …. they ALL thinned out their Overpopulation problems with genocide ……..

      • DaveH

        So then, NC, you think those weapons should also be banned from Government possession?
        Wasn’t Nidal Malik Hasan a member of Government?
        Where is the cry from you Liberal Progressives to disarm the Government, NC?

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        nc, you say that the president just thinks we need to look at the “necessity” of owning guns like this. The president and his government ARE the necessity for owning guns like this! The Second Ammendment was not included in the bill of rights so that we could go hunting or target shooting! The Second Ammendment was written to GUARANTEE the freedoms our constitution gave us! The Second Ammendment was written to PROTECT us from a government out of control! It gave us the right to defend ourselves from tyranny!!! It was written for EXACTLY a day such as this, a president such as this and a government such as this!!! Our founding fathers were thinking of US!!! They were protecting US!!! It makes NO difference what the reason is for banning ANY guns!!! They have NO right to do it, for ANY reason, EVER!!! For many years, we haven’t been paying attention! Well, if we don’t wake up FAST and say NO, we will lose EVERYTHING!!! This is a CODE RED, URGENT situation!!! There can be NO excuse to allow this!!!

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Alex Jones at “Infowars” has started a petition that would make the white house and all federal buildings “gun free zones”! I’m all for it!!! If they think that making someplace a “gun free zone” protects people, then it should protect them, right?!? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander!!! ANY and ALL laws they pass against us should apply to THEM too!!! No more armed body guards for them!!! Enforce the laws on them too! Don’t forget!!! They work for US!!! I know they don’t think so but it is a truth that needs to be enforced!!! Don’t let them forget, they work for US!!!

      • hipshotpercusion

        It is not the duty of the government to protect us. It is the duty of the government to protect and defend our rights. that includes all our rights. Please read the bill of rights and especially the 9th and 10th.

      • momo

        And what part “shall not be infringed” don’t you understand? We need to protect the constitution, right, nc.

      • JUKEBOX

        nc, look how well gun control has worked in Chicago and D.C., Obama’s two favorite places.

        c

      • JC

        There’s nc again with hi “hopelessly paranoid” mantra.

        Hey blind guy…are you completely unable to see the trend towards Global Government?
        Have you missed the way the Government uses our Constitution as a door mat?
        Didn’t notice all the laws being put in place that relegate the Bill of Rights to the level of toilet paper?
        All they need to do now is disarm us…one little law at a time….

        It’s called observation and critical thinking. Two things you’re entirely incapable of.

      • charlie

        Good Grief! Nc says this government is here to help us.
        I won’t write a book, BUT, this government also said Obamacare was going to reduce medical costs. Hahahahahahahaha! We have a believer! Hahahahahaha!

      • Robert Smith

        “BUT, this government also said Obamacare was going to reduce medical costs.”

        Well…. Let’s start with the Bush rule of no bidding, simply pay the price. Canada has proven that to be wrong so folks can get prescriptions much cheaper up there. England is similar.

        Why shouldn’t the American government go for the best price for prescriptions?

        Savings… And there are many many more.

        Rob

  • Philip

    Pray for Obama and Cuomo and others in authority so that we may avoid a shoot out .

    • Don C.

      You’re right Philip! I pray Psalm 109 verse 8 everyday. “May his days be few;
      may another take his place of leadership.”

      • JUKEBOX

        Our present day leaders would not have survived over a month in Biblical days.

        • tony newbill

          isn’t it ironic that 1 month to the day after the end of the world was to be in Mayan prophecies that the US inauguration takes place ?????

      • Robert Smith

        Isn’t interesting that both the christian Camping’s and the Mayian’s predictions were both WRONG.

        BTW, I hope that your version of god… Some guy named Jesus I think, never comes back. I don’t want to see the world destroyed again. It’s actually a pretty nice place for many of us. And, if there weren’t so many greedy people it would be a lot nicer for a lot more.

        Rob

      • Buster the Anatolian

        RS the Mayan predictions were NEVER wrong for they do not exist. what the Mayans said was the long count calender ended on 12-21-2012 on our calender. That represents the end of one age and the beginning of another like today signifies the end of one year and the start of another.

      • Robert Smith

        Buster, you are correct.

        But Camping and his christian followers are still wrong.

        Rob

    • Capitalist at Birth.

      A shoot out is inevitable. Read history and you will find similar patterns in Hitler’s, Stalin’s, Mao’s, Castro’s and now Obama’s performances.

      • Robert Smith

        It was guns that put Castro in power, but they haven’t been able to get him out after 50 years of trying.

        Castro could have been a friend of America. But the powers that be at that time just weren’t willing to accept that anything but THEIR way was good for “people.”

        Well, Cuba has health care ranked very close to America, and the rest of the industrialized world has already advanced to universal health care.

        Rob

  • Bruce

    One staff person legally liscensed and trained would have stopped that deranged child in his tracks. For that fact one armed citized could have. Gun free zones are open invitations for mentally unstable people t take target practice on an un-armed populace.

  • http://personalliberydigest big wyo

    Feinstein’s bill requires registration on every firearm in America.
    Fingerprinting and background check for every gun.
    Permission from local law enforcement.
    Massive new extension of the ATF.
    New taxes (from the 53% that pay taxes) to pay for it.
    Ain’t Attila the Feinstein Sweet?

    • James Andrews

      She’s a fascist, and a serios leftist. The only thing this bill would do(hopefully, it will not pass), is to push even MORE guns into the black market, plain and simple. They would be defeating their own purpose!

      • tony newbill

        They all have become fascists with some emerging as Marxists all because of this …. This is what History repeating itself is all about , because every time we have had major conflicts and oppression in the world in the past it always revolved around supply shortages for that times size of population ….. pay attention to what they say in the youtube video at frame 1:45 ,
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tF2yHjfj32I

      • JUKEBOX

        I wonder if Feinstein turned in her weapon she carried while she had her permit in San Francisco. I bet it is still in one of her houses in CA or DC. Can you say duplicitous hypocrite?

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      I remember my father telling me when I was in my early teens that gun registry was a huge mistake. He thought that if our country were ever invaded by a foreign country, all they would need to do is get their hands on the registry and they would be able to go door to door and disarm us. I’m glad that he’s not alive to see the day when it would be our OWN government that we would have to worry about disarming us!!!

      • Robert Smith

        Expressed to the masses in “Red Dawn” (original): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mWKqhLzJQo

        Rob

      • anonymous

        This is why we must as a collective unit stop this now! Quit sitting back and letting these things happen, call your congress, make your voice be heard….

    • MontanaGrandmom

      Once all firearms are registered and their owners’ identity is on ‘the list’, just what is the next logical step for an all-controlling government? Round ‘em up, boys!

      • JC

        And perhaps they will do what was done in NAZI Germany….kill the gun owners.
        After all…they might have hidden some guns….

  • Bill

    You know Feinstein dont have nothing to worry about she has protection 24/7…Do you really think she cares about ANY OF US??? We==all GOOD people HAVE the right to be able to protect our famlies and our selves! I have a license to carry a concealed handgun fingerprinted and had a FBI back ground ck.What more do they want????…GOD BLESS THE NRA!

    • nc

      Bill, you say “Feinstein don’t have nothing to worry about! She has protection 24/7! She don’t care about us!”
      Do you think she has more protection than Gabby Giffords had? Robert and John Kennedy had? Ronald Reagan had? How do you know who she cares about? The truth is you don’t know! You just believe you know! There is a difference!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        You missed Bill’s point entirely, nc, as usual! Bill’s point and paraphrasing; “rather hypocritical of the old hag to have tax-payers pay for her security which requires people ARMED WITH GUNS, while depriving the rest of the population of the same”!!! Pay attention!

      • hipshotpercusion

        Diane Frankenstein has a rare California concealed carry license. This makes it a massive hypocrite, in my eyes.

      • JUKEBOX

        nc, Feinstein has carried a weapon to defend herself with in the past, which Gifford, Reagan, or none of those others had. When George Wallace got shot, AL trooper E.C. Dothard took the first two bullets from Bremer, which has rarely happened to any other politician’s bodyguard.

      • Robert Smith

        nc declares: “Do you think she has more protection than Gabby Giffords had? Robert and John Kennedy had? Ronald Reagan had? How do you know who she cares about? The truth is you don’t know! You just believe you know! There is a difference!”

        And if any of them had been carrying a firearm (and we don’t know they weren’t) what good did it do them?

        We need to deal with nuts BEFORE they attack. We need better mental health services in America.

        Rob

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Robert: And if any of them had been carrying a firearm (and we don’t know they weren’t) what good did it do them?

        Were there not armed Police officers and an armed security-detail ( and we know that they were carrying firearms), Robert? What good did that do for Gifford? Just another example why citizens should be armed and trained in the use of firearms. Perhaps Gifford should have been armed, given the complete uselessness of an armed police-force and security-detail!

        Yeah, let’s disarm the citizens, the Police will protect us!

        Just like they protected Gifford? t

        The children and adults at “Sandy Hook”?

        Like the people in the “Aurora Theatre”?

        Like they protected13 people who were killed and 30 wounded in a shooting rampage at Fort Hood base in Texas?

        Like they protected an immigrant community center in Binghamton, N.Y., where 11 immigrants were killed including two workers?

        Like they protected five students who were shot dead and 18 others wounded in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb?

        Like they protected 8 people killed and 5 critically-wounded in Omaha, Neb., at a Von Maur store in the Westroads Mall?

        Like the protected 32 people who were fatally-shot in a dorm and a classroom at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg?

        Like they protected the five people who were killed and 4 others wounded at the Trolley Square mall in Salt Lake City, Utah?

        Like they protected the 5 girls shot to death shot to death at West Nickel Mines Amish School in Pennsylvania?

        Like they protected the 9 people killed including five students and a security guard at Red Lake High School in Red Lake, Minnesota?

        Like they protected the nine people killed two Atlanta, Georgia, brokerage offices?

        Like they protected 12 students and a teacher killed and 26 wounded at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado?

        Like they protected four girls and a teacher who were killed at a Jonesboro, Arkansas, middle school?

        Like they protected 22 people killed and 20 wounded at Luby’s Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas?

        I could go on all night citing instances where Police were USELESS and not PRESENT in protecting citizens in “zones”, that by law, were “gun-free-zones”! Yeah, the Police will protect us, let’s just relinquish our guns, hey Robert? You dreamer you!

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        WTS/JAY, here’s one nobody talks about! Two years ago at Millard South High School in Omaha, Ne (my daughter’s school, thank GOD she wasn’t there that day). The son of an Omaha police officer took his father’s service revolver to school and shot the principal and vice principal. The vice principal died! The armed Omaha police officer (not the father) paid by the district to protect was hiding under a desk in one of the back offices!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Nancy, thank God your little girl is safe! Personally, i think public-schools are the most dangerous of places for children. I pulled my Son out of the public-education system over 2 years ago. When he did attend, he was most miserable. Since we pulled him out, going on three years now, the transformation has been remarkable. He is the happiest i have ever seen him be. His thoughts and opinions are original. Our conversations we have, i consider a delight. I no longer need to de-program him as i use to every day after his day at the “Auschwitz concentration camp”. Best decision my Wife and i ever made!

      • Robert Smith

        Hey Nancy, here are a few details about that shooting: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/05/millard-south-high-school-shooting_n_804875.html

        Kid new in a high school, unhappy, acts out, steals a gun, etc.

        How might it have turned out if earlier in the day the kid had gotten some counselling instead of a suspension?

        Rob

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Robert Smith, I don’t need you to fill me in on the details!!! As I said, this was my daughter’s school!!! And since you THINK you know more than I do, the boy had been living in Lincoln with his mother. He got into legal problems there. Because his father was a police officer, they just sent the boy to Omaha to live with his father. The boy then immediately got into trouble in Omaha. He drove his car all over the high school football field and track. He did a lot of damage. Instead of filing charges against him, they expelled him. If they had prosecuted him, he would have been in jail instead of taking his father’s service revolver and killing the vice principal. If the father, a police officer had locked up his service weapon a woman would be alive today! NO type of gun ban would have prevented this!!! Unless they want to ban police from having guns!!! And there is NO way that you would know more about this than I would! We lived it! We went to the memorials! We participated in fund raisers! We went to the prayer services! My daughter was affected by this but NEVER did anyone say that guns should be banned!!! Evil people kill others!!! Law abiding citizens shouldn’t have to pay the price!!!

        • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

          Maybe Robrt.should sit down quietly for awhile???

  • Marinda Ferrell

    I am sick and tired of the lies floating around in this nation over the government trying to stop Americans from owning guns. We live in country where there are 80 million people and 300 million guns. All those guns means some types of guns was never meant to be in the hands of the general public. Over the last decade to present 214,000 teenager has been shot to death and not all from your average hand gum the majority from military style assault rifles and guns with over 50 clips or more. Yet it has taken the death of 20 angels because babies are angels to be shot to death to grab the conscience of the american people. Guns without common sense and responsibility make killers. Killers don’t care about life period. Yet there are people who don’t care who has a gun as long as its their right to have one. Keep the lies going about the government is trying to take guns away from people. No just to ensure the guns stay out of hands of people who really don’t need to have them. Americans has to pass to exams to usually get a driver’s license: A written exam for a permit to allow one to drive with a license driver present in the car. The second exam a road test to get a driver’s license. Yet there are no check and balances to buy guns. Just lies fed on fear and ignorance that allow the mass killings of babies, teenagers, firemen, and police officers, and other innocent people. This is a great shame on this country because of all the repeatedly mass killings that can be prevented. More guns is not the answer just common sense with responsibility.

    • Rickie

      Another Fienstien supporter!

      • W. T. Brian

        An ignorant Feinstein supporter at that. There is scarcely a single word of truth in that poorly written letter. Lacking any other input, I have to believe this person is a product of our public school system. Perhaps if more time and effort were spent educating our children on the 3 R’s, we wouldn’t be forced to try to read such drivel as this. Unfortunately, this woman knows the ‘anti-2nd amendment’ line, yet she cannot write well enough to express herself any better than a third grade student from my times. And of course, she does not feel any obligation to look up the facts, just being emotional is sufficient. She unwittingly makes a sad commentary on our public schools; or: your tax dollars at work.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Marinda: Over the last decade to present 214,000 teenager has been shot to death and not all from your average hand gum the majority from military style assault rifles and guns with over 50 clips or more.

        What does that have to do with guns? The fact that 214,000 teenagers shot one another to death should point you to the fundamental-issue(s) that plague our society, which is not “Guns”, but rather, a serious, social-disturbance. I suppose the 214,000 teenagers could have used other implements to achieve their goals, rather then guns, to the relief of most…?, yet still, and to present, the fundamental-problem(s)/issue(s) are ignored! Your fixation that guns are the cause of are ills and woes, thus divesting responsibility from the one using it, is liken to suggesting that the “penis” was the cause for the rape, and not the rapist/person…RIDICULOUS!!!

        • http://yahoo gail

          Mirinda should be more concered about farm bills cost of food and the 15 million children that are starving in this country. Obamas not concered about your food supply my son is a farmer and I know how concered THE BIG UNCLE is.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        WTS/JAY joins Bob L and picks on Marinda, who is obviously confused—–214.000 gun deaths in a decade works out to over 21,000 per year, and that’s only among teenagers. The last figures I looked at showed something like 30,000+ gun deaths a year with nearly 2/3 of them suicides. I seem to remember reading that child and teen gun deaths of all kinds (homicide, suicide, accidental) are just under 3,000 per year, or less than 10% of the total gun deaths.

        Some statistics of interest: “Homicide and suicide are the second and third leading causes of death, respectively, among teens ages 15 to 19, after unintentional injury. In 2010, firearms were the instrument of death in 85 percent of teen homicides and 40+ percent of teen suicides. While non-firearm injuries result in death in only one out of every 760 cases, almost one in four youth firearm injuries is fatal”.

        “Although other teens are the perpetrators of many of the homicides of teens below age 18, two-thirds of the murderers are eighteen or older. Gang involvement has been associated with many teen murders; in 2002, nearly three-quarters of teen homicides were attributed to gang violence. Although school-related homicides receive substantial media attention, in the 2009-10 school year they accounted for about one percent of all child homicides”.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        RBT: The focus, or the point in Miranda’s comment, and i’m sure Miranda will agree, was not statics, but rather, the vilification of a inanimate-object, and the presence/possession of the object as the cause for the killings rather then the individual(s), and the ridiculous notion that by eliminating said object, the killings will stop, or could have been averted! I simply addressed her naivety. Speaking of confused, RBT, the statistical break-down you provided has been previously addressed. Thanks just the same for your effort!

      • Robert Smith

        Oh sheesh, another stomp on hard working teachers: “Perhaps if more time and effort were spent educating our children on the 3 R’s, we wouldn’t be forced to try to read such drivel as this.”

        Maybe if teachers didn’t have to fight off the extreme right (as occurred in Dover, PA) so they can teach facts instead of religion there would be more interest from the students.

        Rob

    • Nobody’s Fool

      Enjoy your little fantasy world. The government indeed wants to grab all guns from law abiding citizens so as to CONTROL them easier. You think “laws” would have stopped Adam Lanza? Honey, Connecticut is running over with gun control laws that did not stop him. It is a true saying that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. But you go ahead, enjoy your little fantasy where the government is Good and wants to protect you. oBlamer is determined to destroy this country, one right at a time.

      • nc

        Nobody’s Fool! Obama has already destroyed this country! You and the OTHER like minded zombies here PROMISED US from the day he took office that there would be NO presidential elections in 2012, that he would be a dictator by now, that the economy would be in total collapse and that he was so weak on defense that we would be taken over by invaders and terrorist by now!! REMEMBER??

        How utterly miserable it must be see everything you have allowed yourself to believe in just die on the vine!! The “conspiracies” from a century ago to the present that never happened! The red flags that have never been proved! The FEMA camps filled with political prisoners. The government at your door demanding your legal weapons and notifying you that the Bill of Rights has been suspended! That only Muslim holidays will be observed!
        There is no limit to what a sick uninformed mind can see as a threat! Even shadows on the wall.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        nc: There is no limit to what a sick uninformed mind can see as a threat! Even shadows on the wall.

        Conversely, there are no limits to what a “SHILL” will say and do for his pay, including committing intellectual and spiritual suicide!

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Marinda Ferrell,

      You write: “I am sick and tired of the lies floating around in this nation over the government trying to stop Americans from owning guns.” Please cite one lie.

      You write: “We live in country where there are 80 million people and 300 million guns.” Either recheck the U.S. population figures or restate your premise to say what you mean.

      You write: “Over the last decade to present 214,000 teenager has been shot to death and not all from your average hand gum the majority from military style assault rifles and guns with over 50 clips or more.” Please provide proof of this assertion. FBI statistics I linked to in the article tell a different story. What are “over 50 clips or more?”

      You write: “Guns without common sense and responsibility make killers.” Guns are inanimate objects and are therefore unable to have “common sense and responsibility.” Criminal intent makes criminals use guns in criminal acts.

      You write: “Killers don’t care about life period.” The first true statement you have made. They don’t care about laws either.

      You write: “Americans has to pass to exams to usually get a driver’s license: A written exam for a permit to allow one to drive with a license driver present in the car. The second exam a road test to get a driver’s license. Yet there are no check and balances to buy guns.” This is a non sequitur.

      You write: “Just lies fed on fear and ignorance that allow the mass killings of babies, teenagers, firemen, and police officers, and other innocent people.” Please explain and/or provide examples of “lies fed on fear and ignorance that allow the mass killings…”

      You write: “This is a great shame on this country because of all the repeatedly mass killings that can be prevented.” Please explain in detail your plan that will ensure “mass killings” are “prevented” that without infringing on the very clear intent of the 2nd Amendment.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Bob, you should be ashamed of himself for picking on Marinda Ferrell, who has some strong feelings about guns but doesn’t quite have all her ducks lined up in a row. Lord love a duck, Bob, do you pick on “cripples”, children, and old people as well as slightly confused women?

        And it borders on hilarious that you would mention “non sequitur” in relation to Marinda’s talking about obtaining driver’s licenses—-her point was clear even if her logic was not. Of course she is a “Liberal” so she is fair game.

        Knock our socks off, Bob, by showing some “fairness and balance” in your commentary and pointing out the uncounted “non sequiturs” that folks like DaveH and other self-deluded “righties” throw around on this site like Scrooge McDuck throws his money around in his vaults. Some of them have NS branded on their foreheads and you NEVER seem to notice—why is that?

        Bob writes, “ Please explain in detail your plan that will ensure “mass killings” are “prevented” that without infringing on the very clear intent of the 2nd Amendment”
        Uh, Bob, perhaps you don’t want to accept it, but the “very clear intent” of the Second Amendment is not as “clear” as you would like us to believe.

        One final observation. Bob says to Marinda, “You write: ‘I am sick and tired of the lies floating around in this nation over the government trying to stop Americans from owning guns.’ Please cite one lie”. I’ve already taken up enough space on the thread this AM, so I won’t say more than to point out one thing—-Obama’s first term where nothing of importance was passed or even attempted on gun control, yet the paranoid were screaming that “he’s coming to get your guns”. I think particularly of early in his term when he was being crucified over implementing regulations that had been passed during the Bush administration.

        Before you come back at me, Bob, please remember that I am a retired school administrator who thinks someone in every school should be armed. I fired expert more than once with my M-1 over 50 years ago in the USMC, and I enjoyed my most recent visit to the range, where I sent many rounds downrange from a .30-06 Model 70, an AR-15, and a Marlin lever-action chambered for the .357. I have the same problem that a lot of other old farts have, though—-I see two targets when I shoot over the iron sights of the Model 70—-my old fart buddies tell me “just shoot in between them”—-seems to work.

      • CZ52

        “And it borders on hilarious that you would mention “non sequitur” in relation to Marinda’s talking about obtaining driver’s licenses—-her point was clear even if her logic was not. Of course she is a “Liberal” so she is fair game.”

        I have yet to find anywhere in the Constitution where we are guarenteed the right to drive an autoimobile or ANY other kind of triansportation. We are guarenteed the right to own and use firearms as part of the militia, for self defence, and to procure food as well as other uses of a firearm.

      • GALT

        Since I will assume it is not a “quick kill” exercise, you could just try closing one eye,
        as depth perception is not a factor?

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        RBT: Bob, you should be ashamed of himself for picking on Marinda Ferrell, who has some strong feelings about guns but doesn’t quite have all her ducks lined up in a row. Lord love a duck, Bob, do you pick on “cripples”, children, and old people as well as slightly confused women?

        RBT, it is you, who should be ashamed. Mr. Livingston’s responses to Miranda’s comments were with tact and respect. However, your comments addressed to Mr. Livingston comprised of bile and intellectual dishonesty. I’m rather disappointed, RTB. I expected better from you!

      • DaveH

        Lizard Brain says — “And it borders on hilarious that you would mention “non sequitur” in relation to Marinda’s talking about obtaining driver’s licenses—-her point was clear even if her logic was not. Of course she is a “Liberal” so she is fair game”.
        Duh, Non Sequitur — “a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said”.

      • DaveH

        Lizard Brain says — “Knock our socks off, Bob, by showing some “fairness and balance” in your commentary and pointing out the uncounted “non sequiturs” that folks like DaveH and other self-deluded “righties” throw around on this site like Scrooge McDuck throws his money around in his vaults”.
        Be our guests, LB. Point out the “non sequiturs” in my comments anytime you like. I realize it’s much easier for you to make personal attacks and state conjecture, LB. But think hard, maybe even that Lizard Brain of yours can come up with something.

      • DaveH

        Lizard Brain says — “Before you come back at me, Bob, please remember that I am a retired school administrator”.
        That explains why our children don’t know much more than how to tie their shoelaces.

      • JC

        Right Brain Thinker says:
        December 31, 2012 at 9:04 am
        Bob, you should be ashamed of himself for picking on Marinda Ferrell, who has some strong feelings about guns but doesn’t quite have all her ducks lined up in a row. Lord love a duck, Bob, do you pick on “cripples”, children, and old people as well as slightly confused women?
        __________________________________________________________________

        Well it seems you’ve nailed the problem RBT.
        You socialist parasites seem to “feel” that responsible Americans are somehow obligated to enter into a debate on whether or not to give up any or all of our Constitutionally guaranteed, natural rights.
        This just in…You’re “feelings” are irrelevant. Grow up!

        Our nation has something called a Second Amendment that allows us to defend our Republic from enemies foreign and domestic.

        You and Feinstein fall into the “domestic enemy” category.

        How do you “feel” about That? (Don’t bother…I really don’t care how you feel)

      • DaveH

        Lizard Brain says — “Bob, you should be ashamed of himself for picking on Marinda Ferrell, who has some strong feelings about guns but doesn’t quite have all her ducks lined up in a row”.

        With friends like you, LB, who needs enemies?

    • Steve E

      Definitely doesn’t understand the 2nd Amendment. Must have gone to a public school.

      • nc

        Steve E., are you talking about those US public schools that played such a big part in putting that thing on Mars that communicates with us on a flashlight battery? Those space crafts that are about to leave our universe??Those missiles and planes that the enemy can’t see? Medical procedures that once were science fiction! Those public schools that you doubt can educate one about the 2nd amendment! They only need to teach the students that no one person like you gets to decide for others what it really means! Right???

      • Steve E

        nc The 2nd Amendment states what it means. No one has to decide what it means. It means what it says.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Steve E, liberals can’t understand the concept that something MEANS what it says! They think that everything is open to interpretation, THEIRS!!! They think that THEY can decide what is right and how things should be. The Second Ammendment is crystal clear! It means what it says!!! “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the SECURITY OF A FREE STATE, the RIGHT of the people to KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, shall NOT be infringed”!!! Any and all forms of gun control infringes upon our rights!!! How are we to defend ourselves from a government out of control if they have “assault” rifles and we are only allowed pop guns?!?

    • Texas Ride

      Wise-up sweetcakes (moron!) The criminals and nuts will always have guns! It is the law-abiding citizens that are under threat. So far the criminals haven’t been too good at registering their firearms and getting background checks.

      Why do you want to keep good people from being able to defend themselves!! Sounds to me like the government is afraid of its citizens.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        What?!? Are you saying that criminals won’t obey the laws?!? Really?!? This is what kills me about these stupid liberals!!! They think more laws will protect little children!!! Yeah, right!!! Grow up! Killers are here to stay unless we stop them! Of course, that will be difficult to do if law abiding citizens are disarmed!!!

    • Rickie

      Marinda…

      Hun.. why don’t you call Diane and maybe you two can have a Tea sipping party somewhere…..it seems Darwin was right!

    • Aileen

      Yes, killers do kill. They are going to kill with or without gun laws, licenses, restrictions, or bans. The entire point of this discusssion is that we have a Constitution that gives us the right to bear arms.

      NO ONE will be able to protect every individual from crazed killers. No one will be able to save accidental or intentional deaths from shootings. No one will be able to stop a felon from obtaining a fire arm.

      The idea that our government wants to take away our freedoms and impose mandates of all kinds on those who are law abiding is insane since the “killers” will always find a way to do harm if that is their intent. Rules or no rules. Just think of the other ways people are killed everyday. Car accidents, drownings, drug overdoses, beatings, stabbings, etc. These may or may not be intentional but they do happen EVERY DAY. Where is the outrage here? Guns are not the only killers’ weapon. Shall we give up our Constitutional FREEDOMS to make us even more vulnerable?

      I think not. I DO want the right to have one if I want one. I too live in So. California and there are places I do not go, but that doesn’t mean a gun toting criminal can’t find a victim anywhere.

    • Capitalist at Birth.

      Driving is not a right prescribed in the constitution. Fire arm ownership and use are rights prescribed in the constitution. If you read any of the writings by the founding fathers and the creators of the constitution, you will find that the primary purpose of the Second Amendment was for the citizen to be able to protect themselves from a tyrannical Government. Of course, judging from your numerous misspellings and grammatical errors your ability to read and comprehend are in grave doubt.

    • http://disqus C Campo

      Marinda: I see the compassion but you have never seen a Country where people have to crawl rather than walk with dignity. While your heart may be pure, rest assured the freedom to express those thoughts came from brave men and women who were willing to give ALL so you might utter your innermost thoughts. Many of the good people who DARED post a comment here go to work, live decent lives and have felt the lash of tryanny in one form or another. When the government signs a treaty with all people who possess a weapon, saying they will return fire with single shot weapons, like they want to confiscate from WE THE PEOPLE, the populace will sleep easier. Storm clouds are gathering and you do not see what is about to happen. We PRAY our government does not want to do the unthinkable, but if that is the path they take, rest assured we will remember the founding fathers and all who gave so much so you could post your remarks.

    • hipshotpercusion

      Marinda, you write like 3rd grader.

  • http://none John

    This isn’t the America I fought for. It’s becoming Nazi occupied Germany. What a disgrace.

  • http://www.acalculatedresponse.com Michael Murray

    Calling them “false flag” events without hard evidence places you in the realm of what most would call “fringe crazy”. It detracts from the provable truth of the “gun control” stupidity and it is really a separate subject. Otherwise, it is a very good article. I support JPFO, GOA and SAF as the premier gun rights organizations, with the NRA as a poor and far distant fourth.

    • Tom Cook

      Very cute; we all now know how intellectual you are. You probably will swear on Mein Kampf that obama was born in Hawaii.

      • Texas Ride

        How did we get a marxist foreigner controlling our lives….our government has been quietly over-thrown with no resistance from our leaders. There is no Republic or Constitution..

        I have been seeing semi-trucks, coming through our town. They are labeled: Mexico, U. S. and Canada..(.North American Union.) NAU is the fore-runner to One World Government. There will be five “Unions” around the world to prepare people for One World. The plans are out there, you just have to be able to read and do some research.

        Of course the next big step is the disarming of citizens. After that, everyone can forget being free or having any kind of life. This country is to provide the laborers for the world. What a fitting end for a country that has been the envy of the world. Most of the envious world will be very happy to see America’s demise and Americans on bended knees, especially our one greatest enemy. You can decide who is our greatest enemy.

      • Texas Ride

        Tony, you are right. Good information there. One World Government is not about solving problems, it is about controlling the wealth of the world for an elite few!

        America doesn’t need the “world” as we have been told. We have what we need and can have a rich life without anything from despots of the world that rule the UN.

        It is the corporations that want a world economy! They are not happy with the market in this country and want to expand to a global market where they can increase profits to new heights! I am just wondering what they are going to do when no one has money to buy their products! They might just rethink their ideas, instead of lending support to these One Worlders.

        As for taxes, with a tyrannical government, no one will have private property to tax or money to tax. But, that won’t be needed because the World Government will have all the wealth, while people live in cubbyholes provided by government or government camps. If people are good, they might even get a few rations from the government stash! You know, something like the “omaumau stash.”

        As for the National Debt that is a farce! Most of that debt is owed to the Federal Reserve. They print our money for 2-cents a bill and charge us, the tax payers, “full face value!” No wonder the private owners of the Fed Bank are all the wealthiest people in the world. (The word “people” might be a stretch to call these vampires that suck the wealth out of this country and have for a hundred years!)

        Get rid of the Fed, decentralize government out of Washington, the States need to take control of taxing and spending so local taxpayers can benefit from taxes they pay, and let the world straighten itself out. We don’t need to be involved, we can do just fine on our own. The fear is that the rest of the world will see that we can still have good lives and they will storm our borders (our open borders) and take what they want. Why do you think government won’t protect our borders. Abolish the right of the Fed to “tax and spend (steal and plunder.)

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Michael Murray,

      You write: “Calling them “false flag” events without hard evidence places you in the realm of what most would call ‘fringe crazy’.” I have provided evidence in some of the most recent cases that I believe point to false flag events. More evidence is available to you if you choose to seek it. Ignoring it and accepting the state line without question puts you in the realm of what many would call “fringe crazy.”

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Capitalist at Birth.

        I suggest that Jerome R. Chorsi investigate, research, and write a book on this event. It will be a best seller, I am sure. I know I will buy a copy, if books are still being published freely then. Great article, Bob. There are too many discrepancies and changes in the story to believe anything the authorities say about this incident at this point. I will continue to be skeptical about anything any one connected with the Government/Police ever say, as I always have.

      • Andy

        Mr. Livingston,
        I tip my hat to you sir. Most articles written are never really followed up, and defended by the writers of them. You sir are a man of integrity, and your efforts have not gone unnoticed. Thank you for your continued fight for our freedom through the printed word.

        One thing I would like people to understand about the bill of rights, and I hope that you may help me to relay this message, is that, these 10 amendments weren’t written as a granting of rights, but simply rights that are just recognized and enumerated by men, to state that our creator endowed us with these rights. Thus they cannot be taken away by any laws of men.

        My tools of self protection WILL NOT BE TAKEN WITHOUT A FIGHT!!!!!!! From whatever form that fight may take. I took an oath to defend the constitution. I will give my life to defend it. I will continue hold fast to my oath so that future generations may taste the freedom this country is supposed to enjoy.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Andy,

          Thank you, sir.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • Robert Smith

        Bob Livingston says: “Ignoring it and accepting the state line without question puts you in the realm of what many would call “fringe crazy.””

        ROFL… The wife of a pilot friend of mine was on a bus in the mixing bowl (highway interchanges around the Pentagon) and watched the AIRPLANE hit. Her husband on site later in the day saw the engines.

        Yet there are those who still insist that it was a missile.

        Want a picture? Check out: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://911review.org/images/pentagon_turbofan_closeup.jpg&imgrefurl=http://911review.org/Wget/www.kathymcmahon.utvinternet.com/wag/wag/911_pentagon_turbine.htm&h=746&w=547&sz=163&tbnid=U2sfRYBbmFpVLM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=81&zoom=1&usg=__vx3dgZM50Hi9HCn9MxLBE9VjUzo=&docid=tpKK2UVuJ6hfjM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bSbiUN2fOJLh0AHwjIHgAQ&ved=0CDQQ9QEwAQ&dur=8452

        Or are you going to claim it was “planted” with hundreds of emergency responders hanging around?

        Let’s see… Eyeballs on vs. conspiracy theory…

        Rob

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Robert: ROFL… The wife of a pilot friend of mine was on a bus in the mixing bowl (highway interchanges around the Pentagon) and watched the AIRPLANE hit. Her husband on site later in the day saw the engines.

        There is no way for us to confirm your above story to be true, Robert. Anyone can claim; i know such and such a person, i’m a professor, i’m this and i’m that…blah blah, and it seems mostly the “left” that making such claims, so as to lend their arguments credibility. I suggest you offer facts and data that can be verified. As to the rest of your fantasies, keep them to yourself…you’ll garner greater credibility that way!

      • JC

        Robert, Your tale of your wife’s friend…or friend’s wife…or whatever is irrelevant.
        The film constantly shown of the plane hitting the pentagon…has no plane in it.
        I don’t care how many times you watch it, a commercial airliner would be obvious…but there isn’t one.
        We get the same media driven film from the same angle every time. There are hundreds of cameras surrounding the Pentagon so why do we never see anything from a different angle?
        And why did the FBI go around confiscating the surveillance videos from all the hotels and gas stations that might have shown something?

        Again. there’s a cover up going on. And there is NO doubt about it.

  • Ron r

    Where is it in the 2nd amendment does it say ex fellons can not have fire arms? Jessie James is rolling in his grave. No one wants to take guns from responsible owners. Just those who should not have them.

    • jim robator

      thats what they want you to believe I might not see but future generations will

    • http://personalLibertyDigest Takidez

      Ron R.
      The 2nd applies to citizens of the US. Felons have lost their citizenship.

      • Paul Wells

        Takidez, Correction: Felons have not lost their citizenship, just the right to vote (and that varies, state by state) and the right to own a firearm. That too, may even vary state by state, I’m not sure, but I’d be okay with a federal statute that bans gun ownership for convicted felons.

      • Capitalist at Birth.

        Paul Wells, Who are you to say who has a right to defend themselves from a tyrannical Government, and who does not? If you and those like you who would micro manage all aspects of our lives I think it is time for you and them to leave this country.

      • Hardtoremember

        Tikidez, Felons have NOT lost any sort of citizenship. I have no idea where you got that silly idea from. Felons of non-violent crimes can absolutely own and carry a pistol and/or rifle. They keep their second amendment right the same as any other citizen.

      • Hardtoremember

        Paul Wells… WOW, what a horrible comment. I wonder how long it would be for nearly every citizen to be convicted of a felony. We can already be detained without any charge.. be spied on illegally. As soon as you wake up in the morning I am sure you have broke some sort of “law” and before you go to bed you are a mass law breaker. Please think before you put out the idea that SOME people deserve rights and some don’t.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        As I understand it convicted felons are deprived of certain of the rights of citizenship such as voting and ownership of firearms. There is some variation in the way this is enforced in the different states. Also, in at least some states you can get your rights back under certain circumstances if you go before a judge and he rules in your favor.

      • Paul Wells

        Hardtoremember,
        If you commit (and are convicted of) several felonies before going to bed…then you are an idiot as well as a lawbreaker.

        “Both federal and state laws consider a felon to be disqualified to purchase or possess a firearm. The Gun Control Act of 1968 further defines a prohibited person under Title 18, U.S. Code, Chapter 44. A prohibited person is one who has been convicted or is under indictment for a term exceeding 1 year; is a fugitive from justice; is a user of unlawful and/or addictive controlled substances; is mentally defective; is an illegal alien or has renounced citizenship; has been dishonorably discharged from the U.S. armed services; or individuals who are subject to a court order of restraint.”

        Oh, I suppose you are taking the tact that the big, evil government can trump up felony convictions just to impinge on your rights, which is a valid concern…to some extent. But what jury would convict on flimsy evidence? Have you no faith in our justice system?

        I’m not deciding who can and cannot have a firearm. The federal STATUTES are, and I’m damned fine with that! I don’t want your felonious arse carrying a gun around, because as I see it, you’ve already proven that you are not respectful of the law, or prudent enough to make the sound judgements one must make carrying around a firearm.

        Just to be clear…I TOTALLY support the federal and state statutes that prevent felons from owning/carrying guns! End of story.

    • Ted Crawford

      ” The goal is an ultimate ban on all guns, but we have to take a step at a time and go for limited access first” Jayner Sims
      The phrase, ” Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth” wasn’t a recommendation! It was a WARNING!

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

      Ron r: No one wants to take guns from responsible owners. Just those who should not have them.

      Was the the intention behind “Fast and Furious”, Ron?

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Was “that” the intention behind “Fast and Furious”, Ron? (damn you spell-check!)

    • Jonathan

      Just to let you know, Jesse James never robed one bank or train in his entire life.

      • Paul Wells

        But he probably robbed one!

  • figmo

    I have heard conflicting reports on whether or not the asault rifle was actually used at sandyhook. I heard that it was left in the killer’s car. The msm seems to be deliberately vague about this so I suspect it wasn’t used but the msm would like you to believe that it was. The empty shell casings should reveal the answers. Why isn’t anyone talking about the psychotropioc px meds the killer was on? These meds have proven side effects of violent behavior and suicide. God forbid that big pharma should lose any of its multi-billion dollar profits of these killer drugs ! Apparently they have found that the huge profits far exceed the millions they have had to pay out in lawsuits.

  • Bruce

    One other thing, cars are registered and it seems that we can not stop them from killing people. Especailly under control of a drunk or high driver. Tens of thousands per year are killed by impared drivers.

    • jim robator

      yes and now we have another drug that most states made leagle but that is ok what drug will they say is ok next

    • Rickie

      I was recently rear ended by a teen playing a video game on their fricking iPod…
      So should we ban all iPods, games, cars, bats, clubs,…..how about just ttaking all of our freedoms away and make us build pyrimids..
      WTF!!

    • nc

      Bruce, how many MORE would be killed by cars if we had NO laws regulating their possession and use?? Think the number killed by guns COULD BE REDUCED BY THE SAME METHOD?? Are you against motor vehicle laws that reduce their dangerous nature??

      • Capitalist at Birth.

        I will not now or ever accept you as my nanny. You are hereby terminated from making any rules for me or anybody I know. Good Day.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Again, nc, you are a complete retard! Laws, however many, do not, stop crime. If that were so, there would be no crime. Laws are for the purpose to convict and punish those who violate the law(s). Laws are not, designed to stop crime. Laws are as impotent at stoping/reducing crime, as is the Police-force, impotent, at reducing/stopping crime! More laws, more crime…naturally. More laws, more profits…naturally. More laws, greater control of the sheep for fleecing. SHILL!!!

      • Aileen

        Does anyone consider the massive amounts of unlicensed drivers, those whose licenses have been revoked and those who may be DUI drivers?
        You can bet that those who drive without licenses have no insurance and/or are unregistered. Those who’ve had licenses revoked just don’t give a damn and those with DUIs will usually deny they are impaired and angry they are caught.
        How mant hit and runs do we hear about? Why do we have Uninsured Driver add-on recommended to our insurance policies? (CA does) Those people don’t follow the laws yet they cause and create the rest of us pay more whether by higher premiums, lost lives, disabilities etc.

      • http://www.sweetsalesgirl.com/Kuurus/ Charles Johnson

        You’ve got it bassackward it’s cars that are so deadly compared to (Firearms). Each year multiple more people are killed by cars misused than are murdered in the U.S.

  • Tom Cook

    Bob, you are the first one besides me who has the courage to ponder the obama administration involvement in Newton. I would bet money that obama was behind it with the understanding that it would take a Dunblane type of massacre to arouse Americans who do not have the European serf mentality. If the commies send their thugs to take our weapons there will be blood–and there are a lot more of us than them.

    • Andy

      I’m right there with ya partner!! They are not taking mine without a fight!!

  • Right Brain Thinker

    Right Brain Thinker says on another thread:
    December 29, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Food for thought…..

    Firman Debrander argued in a recent New York Times piece. It’s worth the time to read the whole thing, but here’s the core of his case:

    “…guns pose a monumental challenge to freedom, and particular, the liberty that is the hallmark of any democracy worthy of the name — that is, freedom of speech. Guns do communicate, after all, but in a way that is contrary to free speech aspirations: for, guns chasten speech.

    “This becomes clear if only you pry a little more deeply into the N.R.A.’s logic behind an armed society. An armed society is polite, by their thinking, precisely because guns would compel everyone to tamp down eccentric behavior, and refrain from actions that might seem threatening. The suggestion is that guns liberally interspersed throughout society would cause us all to walk gingerly — not make any sudden, unexpected moves — and watch what we say, how we act, whom we might offend.

    “As our Constitution provides, however, liberty entails precisely the freedom to be reckless, within limits, also the freedom to insult and offend as the case may be. The Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld our right to experiment in offensive language and ideas, and in some cases, offensive action and speech. Such experimentation is inherent to our freedom as such. But guns by their nature do not mix with this experiment — they don’t mix with taking offense. They are combustible ingredients in assembly and speech.

    “After all, a population of privately armed citizens is one that is increasingly fragmented, and vulnerable as a result. Private gun ownership invites retreat into extreme individualism — I heard numerous calls for homeschooling in the wake of the Newtown shootings — and nourishes the illusion that I can be my own police, or military, as the case may be….

    “As Michel Foucault pointed out in his detailed study of the mechanisms of power, nothing suits power so well as extreme individualism. In fact, he explains, political and corporate interests aim at nothing less than “individualization,” since it is far easier to manipulate a collection of discrete and increasingly independent individuals than a community. Guns undermine just that — community. Their pervasive, open presence would sow apprehension, suspicion, mistrust and fear, all emotions that are corrosive of community and civic cooperation. To that extent, then, guns give license to autocratic government.

    “Our gun culture promotes a fatal slide into extreme individualism. It fosters a society of atomistic individuals, isolated before power — and one another — and in the aftermath of shootings such as at Newtown, paralyzed with fear. That is not freedom, but quite its opposite. And as the Occupy movement makes clear, also the demonstrators that precipitated regime change in Egypt and Myanmar last year, assembled masses don’t require guns to exercise and secure their freedom, and wield world-changing political force. Arendt and Foucault reveal that power does not lie in armed individuals, but in assembly — and everything conducive to that”.
    Reply

    • FreedomFighter

      Let me see, I listen to them guys or…

      A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
      – George Washington

      I choose George Washington

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Joe

        SEMPER FI ,brother.. It is a shame that many people of the country are following the government leaders. THEY DON’T BELIEVE IN THE CONSTITUTION, OR THE BILL OF RIGHTS.
        Joe

      • JC

        Amen That!

      • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

        Patriots plan for resisting the Globalist agenda:
        Develop Secure Community Co-ops (Interactive Neighborhood Watch on steroids). Groups should be from about 5 to 15 people in the same general area, neighborhood. All members should be conservative/responsible adults.
        Members should work at fortifying local, county and state govts. as well as joining Shrf. Reserve Forces (as long as the shrf. is an oathkeeper), Constitutional Sheriffs Assoc./ USCDA, State Militias, Constitutional Militias, etc. Also, should be involved in TP, 9-12, John Birch Soc., etc.
        SCC’s should have a liason with other like-minded grps. in order to give/obtain support when needed.
        The states should and hopefully will be the first line of defense against an overreaching tyrannical govt.(Don’t count on it if you are living in a Blue State) Next, it would fall on the counties and local communities, working in concert with the various State Militia units, Co. Shrfs’ Depts., Constitutional and SCC elements. After that, if needed, Bug Out procedures should be implemented. Hopefully, to safe areas.

    • tony newbill

      The manipulation of the culture to force more and more aggressive reactions that would deem the public more and more a greater threat to itself as a Self Secured society could be a result of behind the scenes actions that are creating the overwhelming sensation to how the society functions and supplies itself or is being oppressed to be able to supply itself which in turn results in confusion and kinds of reactions we see playing out from the cause and effect of our Government Policies that are interrupting free societies activities to be a self reliant society .
      Take this for instance ,
      Hurricane Sandy … was it a generated and controlled system ?
      This is a Study done back in the mid 1990s on controlling the weather by harnessing the Ionosphere….
      http://csat.au.af.mil/2025/volume3/vol3ch15.pdf

      Close the gaps on the WWW on this link , and check out the fact that it is all about what is talked about in controlling the Ionosphere …
      w w w.haarp.alaska.edu/

    • TheTruthHurts

      RBT: You & your buddy seems to be out of touch with science. I may refer you to an entire book, “The Science of Fear” By Daniel Gardner; in it there are many references to studies performed over the past 20-30 years that strongly suggests that group mentality greatly diminishes an individuals ability to come to realistic/true conclusions. A few thoughts you should really look into are confirmation bias (where one will only absorb information that agrees with their pre-existing ideologies) & group polarization (get a bunch of people who think the same & they tend to change the bell shaped curve towards the “outliers”, truly skewing data).
      Also, he states that the “NRAs ideologies.. blah blah blah…” The NRA did not write the 2nd amendment. A group of men in the 1770s decided to throw down some letters on a piece of paper to explain to people that they have a right to defend themselves (interesting bc there were probably no monarchs allowing their subjects to arm themselves…); that governments do not GIVE people these rights, they are BORN with them.
      Another book (more like pamphlet) you should purchase (totally $4.99) is “The Second Amendment” by David Bartton. Excellent insight into the nature of the writing of this little phrase.
      Individualism in no way suggests isolationism… How was it that America thrived for so long under this idealism? Individualism does not suggest that people are fragmented & do not belong to a community. Where do these people with these inane ideas come from????
      This is perhaps the most illogical & irrational piece I’ve ever read, and from a a NYT columnist?? Holy sweet Jesus. Coming from a RBT you would think anything that flows fromm your gullet will adhere to some logical reasoning.

    • DaveH

      What a crock, Lizard Brain. Guns are no more dangerous to Freedom of Speech than knives or bats or axes or anything else a bully might choose to silence those he is afraid to hear.
      And they are a lot less dangerous to Freedom of Speech than Liberal Progressive Socialists who typically silence all opposition if the people are foolish enough to let them gain absolute power.

    • DaveH

      It would be comical if it weren’t so serious for Liberal Progressives, the originators of the “Politically Correct” movement, to feign concern for Free Speech. They want you to be able to Speak Freely, as long as it is speaking their way.

  • Frank

    Happy to see that you are using the term “gun grabber” rather than liberals. Obvioulsly the people talking about gun control includes many conservative Republicans. It is an issue that cuts across all lines of party and political beliefs. As I have often said, to think that only liberals are talking about the issue of gun control is to make as big a mistake as the people who predicted that only a few liberals would vote for Obama and there would be a landslide for Romney. Sometimes I think it is more an issue of urban vs rural than anything else.

    • DaveH

      Probably more correct would be to classify them as just plain old Progressives. Those who want to grow Government ever larger.

  • Right Brain Thinker

    More food for thought…..

    Akhil Reed Amar, a professor at Yale Law School, one of the nation’s leading authorities on the Constitution, offers some thoughts about the Second Amendment.

    “Originally, the Second Amendment is very much about local militias keeping check on a federal military establishment. It’s about Lexington and Concord and Bunker Hill. It’s a product of the American Revolution. The motto at the founding is when guns are outlawed only the king’s men will have guns.”

    “In a nutshell, almost everything ordinary Americans think they know about the Bill of Rights, including the phrase ‘Bill of Rights,’ comes from the Reconstruction period. Not once did the Founders refer to these early amendments as a bill of rights. We read everything through the prism of the 14th amendment — including the right to bear and keep arms.”

    “The reconstruction Republicans didn’t love local militias. They believed in Grant’s army. So they recast it. It becomes an individual right. The NRA is founded after the Civil War by a group of ex-Union Army officers. Now the motto goes, when guns are outlawed, only klansmen will have guns. Individual black men had to have guns in their homes because they couldn’t count on the local constabulary. It’s in the text of the Freedman’s Bureau Act of 1866 that we actually see the reinterpretation of the original Second Amendment. It becomes about original rights.”

    “The reconstructionists had had four bloody years trying to suppress bloody coups. So they tried to tame the Second Amendment. We moved from an insurrectionary reading of the amendment to an individual one.”

    “Instead of obsessing over the wording of the amendment, which doesn’t fit anymore, we need to talk about unenumerated rights in America,” he replied. “Having guns in homes for self protection is a very deep part of American culture. You couldn’t even get rid of those guns if you tried. It would make prohibition look like a day in the park. Today, almost everywhere in America you can have a gun in your home and that should be respected. But that doesn’t mean you need guns that can mow 26 people down. We can talk about reasonable regulation.”

    • FreedomFighter

      Again the communist rewrite of history…here is a quote for you commi boy:

      A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.
      – George Washington

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Ted Crawford

        Here is another, more recent quote, from a LIBEAL even! Some of us can still remember when Liberals still existed. ” Certainly one of the chief guarentees of Freedom under any Government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the Citizens to keep and bear arms” Hubert Humphrey
        Another;
        “If I were to select a jack-booted group of Facists, who are perhaps as large a danger to American Society as i could pick today, I would pick B.A.T.F. (bureau of Alcohol Tabacco & Firearms” John Dingle
        How about one from a Pacificist:
        ” Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole Nation of arms as the blackest” Mahatma Gandhi
        Who, on the other hand seeks to control them?
        ” All Political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The Communist Party must command all the guns” Mao Tze Tung
        ” I have given the catagorical order to confiscate the largest possible number of weapoms” Benito mussolini
        ” I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a Sine qua non for the overthrow of a Sovereignty. German Troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintainance of Law and Order” Adolf Hitler

    • Richard Theilmann

      Excellent, Right Brain Thinker, In a related post, I called for the removal of all Semi Auto’s, and there would still be plenty of guns for people to own.

      And by the way, the Second Amendment is just that, an amendment and it CAN be repelled, just like that OTHER famous amendment.

      • cawmun cents

        Perhaps I will see you then.
        First in line at my domicile,ready to confiscate my freedoms for your vaunted “personal safety”?.
        That will be a fine day for us both.
        To your arrogance ……I salute you!
        Huzzzah!
        -CC.

      • DaveH

        Then work to repeal it, Richard. Until then, any other efforts you make to disarm the people are lawless.

    • DaveH

      “Reasonable regulation” to Power-seeking Leaders is anything that takes as many guns from us as they can get away with.
      RBT’s author says — “But that doesn’t mean you need guns that can mow 26 people down”.

      So, he’s promoting disarmament of our Imperialistic Government?

  • http://yahoo gail

    The time is near for revolution and it will come in this country. Obama puts into play a heath care act with a tax yet the congress and senate dont agree with it uses executive order???? 537 Commies in office We the people have the power under the Constitution yet we have the guns do you think the military will stop us all we need is a leader and its all over for the politicians the states have there own soverienty and it will come.

  • Paul Torsiello

    MS Fascist Fienstien can Kiss my American ass, nobody is getting my guns from me without getting shot themselves!

    • Rickie

      Yep… I agree..she can kiss mine not on the left nor on the right but right in the middle!
      Fought in NAM and now they are going to try to take our weapons…time to get grungy Marines!! UhhhhRhaaaaa!!!

      • Rivenheart

        The thing is she is probably one of those greeting the returning Veterans by spitting on them

    • JON A. [USMC RET.]

      PAUL
      TELL THEM THAT IF THEY WANT MY GUNS, IS TO BRING MORE THAN ONE TANK.

  • Steve E

    “You are bound to meet misfortune if you are unarmed because, among other reasons, people despise you….There is simply no comparison between a man who is armed and one who is not. It is unreasonable to expect that an armed man should obey one who is unarmed, or that an unarmed man should remain safe and secure when his servants are armed. In the latter case, there will be suspicion on the one hand and contempt on the other, making cooperation impossible.” (Niccolo Machiavelli in “The Prince”)

    • Karolyn

      Really? Quoting Machiavelli?

      • Steve E

        Truth is truth no matter where it comes from. Even from a French-Italian guy.

      • JC

        That’s exactly right Steve.

        “Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look
        upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.”

        Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi

  • Steve E

    “To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm . . . is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege.” [Wilson v. State, 33 Ark. 557, at 560, 34 Am. Rep. 52, at 54 (1878)]

    • GALT

      1878??????? Nothing before 1939 matters, and that includes the constitution, with
      the exception of the benefits, privileges and immunities, you have been graciously
      allowed to retain ( until further notice )……still Heller is both apropos and sufficient
      at the moment……….

  • SarahR

    Mr. Livingston. I look forward to reading your posts and I respect your opinion. I agree with you on most of them. I would like an answer to my question: you write “That Washington passed The National Defense Authorization Act with barely a whimper out of the populace which is becoming ever more docile and subservient by the day.” WHAT DO YOU EXPECT US TO DO? The average person, We The People, do not have the time nor finances to go to Washington and do what????? How can the average person fight Washington? I would do anything I can to keep guns in the hands of responsible people. Guns don’t kill, people kill. We need more help for the mentally ill. Adam Lanza was under watch from infancy. He was a ticking timebomb. It was only a metter of time. All the others were mentally ill. It isn’t new gun laws that are needed.

    • Paul Wells

      SarahR, I believe that if you called your representatives/Congresspeople and voiced your displeasure, that would at least fall in the realm of “doing something” without having to march on Washington. Of course, that will only be of benefit if you will convince others to do likewise. They still *do* work for us (at least at the moment!).

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear SarahR,

      You write: “WHAT DO YOU EXPECT US TO DO? The average person, We The People, do not have the time nor finances to go to Washington and do what?????” A start would be to engage yourself in local politics so you can influence the election of your representative. You can start your own blog or even post of Facebook and Twitter to inform as many as possible about the unConstitutional acts of the elected class. At the very least, write or phone your Congress person or Senator to express your displeasure at their unConstitutional acts and inform them that you will be working to campaign against them in their upcoming elections unless they work to repeal unConstitutional laws.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

    • DaveH

      There are several sites that provide easy access to your Representatives, Sarah.
      I like the gunowners.org legislative action center, where you can put in your zip-code and get access information for your State representatives as well as your Federal representatives:
      http://capwiz.com/gunowners/home/

      And you can use the links to write them about any subject your heart desires.

  • http://www.personalliberty.com Darwin

    Marinda Ferrell says she is “sick and tired of the lies about government trying to take guns away”, that 80 million Americans own 300 million guns. Last I heard, US Census is in the 300 million range, not GUNS!!! I’m sure the 300 million gun number is very low also. Wonder if she wrote her comment in the 1800″s??
    Another uninformed, unintelligent, gun-hater!!

  • Flashy

    Mr. Livingston…you represent the issues well. on one hand, there are the gun freaks who demand that there be no interference with turning this nation into an armed camp where everyone needs a weapon to be able to walk the streets and ward off those who would impose their will and want by the rule of the gun. They have been fed the malarkey that of all the Constitution and Amendments, the 2nd means thy can act out their fantasies, support their feelings of insecurities, and run roughshod over the Rights and Will of the People.

    On the other end of the spectrum, feeding off the anger of the majority, taking advantage of the anger, the frustration, and the no longer disguised disgust at the gun freaks mentality and unwillingness to consider any sane and reasonable attempt at solidifying the safety of Americans everywhere they go., there is the anti gun and anti 2nd Amendment contingent.

    Both extremes are using the issue for money and power.

    You yourself are showing support for the extreme. Is there any program or policy which affects the distribution of guns and provides a pathway to attack the suppliers of illegal weaponry? From reading your articles, there seems not. You perpetuate the myth that the 2nd is supreme amendment of all and nothing is above it.

    First, we have a clash of Rights. the Rights of the People under the First, the Ninth, the fourteenth and the PreAmble of the Constitution of the United States.

    And we have the Right as recognized in the 2nd Amendment … the only one, BTW, which also states the reason for it’s existence.

    Without question, the 2nd recognizes people may own guns and keep them in their home. No doubt. Aside from that, the 2nd has been open to limitations throughout our history. Aside from the Right to own a gun and keep in in the home, the Right of the 2nd is not absolute,

    For instance…we recognize and bar entire GROUPs. Do you argue that felons should not be allowed weapons? Mentally ill? Minors?

    We recognize limitations on PLACE. Gun free zones, sporting events, schools, etc.

    We recognize restrictions on MANNER. Concealed Weapons Permits, unloaded traveling in car, most states have open carry restrictions, etc.

    And finally, we have the recognized restrictions on TYPE. We can, and have, banned or limited the sale of machine guns, fully auto rifles and pistols, sawed off shotguns, semi auto assault rifle, tanks, etc. Would you argue the 2nd extends so far as to allow those?

    What Mr. Livingston, just what would you think is reasonable in attempting to restrict bad guys from obtaining weapons?

    The FACT that restricting the carrying of firearms, and controlling access to guns, the fact that it works is not only common sense, but historically proven. let’s take Didge City, Kansas. From Day One of it’s formalized incoroporation, the city had gun control. There’s a photograph taken in Dodge City in 1879. Everything looks exactly as you’d imagine: wide, dusty road; clapboard and brick buildings; horse ties in front of the saloon. Right in the middle of the street is a huge wooden billboard announcing, “The Carrying of Firearms Strictly Prohibited.”

    That restriction applied to the Southern part of Dodge. The northern part, separated by the railroad tracks, the part where the saloons, bordellos, etc were cited was unrestricted as to the carrying of guns.

    In the span of time when Dodge gained its rabble rousing wild reputation, there were 15 MURDERS and innumerable episodes of gun usage and crime was rampant, to the point where no one went unarmed at night when “on the other side of the tracks”. . Know how many murders were in the South side? 0. Where there were guns, there were murders, shootings, and crime.

    The numbers are similar for all the Old West. Tombstone, Virginia City etc…all the “famed” places of the West are undeserving of their reputations of being wild, shoot ‘em up places. And all had strict gun control.

    Now isn’t that amazing. You take a town and put all of the miscreants, rebel rousers, and assorted ne’er-do-wells in one area, forbid the carrying of weapons by those who frequent the other area, and ALL of the homicide occurs where there are guns!

    Common sense, sane rational reasoning. The more guns allowed in public, the higher the likelihood there will be violence.

    And…in each burden placed upon the 2nd…the over-riding Rights are those contained in the PreAmble, the First, the Ninth and the Fourteenth.

    The reasonable burdens which are being discussed the most are …

    Ban the future sale of semi automatic ‘assault type’ weapons. Those in existence, place restrictions on when they may be functional and how stored. they are weapons primarily offensive in nature, and despite the claims…anyone with a straight face won’t argue they are hunting rifles. Unless a human being is the prey.

    Mandate a uniform minimum requirement for carrying a weapon outside the home. Technical training, situational awareness, and live fire proficiency examinations.

    Register each sale of a gun. Every time a gun is sold, the Seller must register the sale of the gun and the buyer, including conducting a background check. If a gun is used in a crime, it can be traced back to see who is selling to the bad guys. If a sale is not registered, a hefty fine and open to civil claims by any victims of a subsequent crime (if the sale is registered and done properly, no liability from civil claims as there was no indication it would be a criminal weapon)

    So Mr. Livingston, given the 2nd not being absolute, which of the above are acceptable? What Mr. Livingston, just what is acceptable to you?

    • DavidL

      Excellent response, Flashy. I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for a substantive response from Bob, He’s out of bullets.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        And you are intellectually-bereft, if you agree with the insane-rantings of the paid-shill who calls himself “Flashy”!

      • Flashy

        OK WTS…refute what i wrote. What do you find in error or disagree with? Specifics….

        are you denying the reality that the 2nd can be, and is/has, restricted in re; groups of people, time, place, manner and type?

        are you denying the history of the Old West?

        are you denying the 2nd is the only Right recognized with a stated purpose?

        are you denying that in each instance of burdening the 2nd, it was done to protect the Rights of the People recognized in the Preamble, the First, the Ninth and the Fourteenth?

        And of the three proposals, which would you support, which would you reject..and if rejected, why?

        Step up Sparky, or are you one of those blowhards who can’t do anything but yell, incapable of offering solutions.

      • Paul Wells

        Flashy, here’s one: In either south OR north Dodge City, not one firearm, hopped into a saloon (or anyone else, for that matter) and shot anyone dead. That is the simple fact that you idiots completely ignore. HUMANS kill humans, and they’ll do it with rocks, knives, swords, tire irons, baseball bats, etc. You all want to make it about the guns, how about the deranged HUMAN that finds himself/herself at a crossroads where taking a life is no big deal? That is the real issue, and YOU KNOW IT! All your pontificating is just that, a lot of hot air!

      • Flashy

        Paul, the violence inherent in our genes is undeniable. Of all the animal world, only Man laughs..and when he does, it is at someone or something’s hardship. Think about that. When you laugh….a good laugh…be it a joke or something you have witnesses … something or someone got burned in the deal. Such is Man. We are a violent species and kill for pleasure.

        Give Man a baseball bat, he will use it. Give him a knife, he will use it. Give him a weapon which is created only for violence and killing and is a highly destructive instrument…he will use it. It is Man’s nature to use it.

        The aspect then becomes, not in making sure it is used widely and by everyone, but to impede access by the bad guys, restrict (by scarcity or cost) distribution to the bad guys, and ensure that those who desire those weapons are held responsible for their actions (i.e. you sell it, it better be to a responsible person. Use it, best prove it was last resort to protect your “home”. Carry it in public, demonstrate you know what the heck you’re doing)

        what would you have otherwise?

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Flashy: The aspect then becomes, not in making sure it is used widely and by everyone, but to impede access by the bad guys…

        And who is psychologically-fit to determine who the “bad-guys” are, Flashy? Would that be Eric Holder and the big-Banana who put assault rifles into the hands of some of the worst drug-cartels south of the border, Flashy? Without a doubt, out of all the “shills” that frequent this site, you, are the most despicable and reprehensible of the lot!

      • Right Brain Thinker

        WTS/JAY says, “And you are intellectually-bereft, if you agree with the insane-rantings of the paid-shill who calls himself “Flashy”!

        Flashy is a “paid shill”, JAY? Paid by whom and for what purpose? To throw small snowballs of sanity into the roaring, mindless, and paranoid inferno of right wing “group think” that issues from the Gates of Hell called the PLD “discussion threads”? (To be fair and balanced, that “inferno” makes up perhaps at most 85-90% of the PLD site, even less on some threads).

        Paul Wells says, “HUMANS kill humans, and they’ll do it with rocks, knives, swords, tire irons, baseball bats, etc. You all want to make it about the guns…..All your pontificating is just that, a lot of hot air!”.

        Talk about pontificating and hot air, all this talk about people being the problem and not guns is just that—-it is true only to the point of remembering that the gun was designed for one purpose—-rapid and efficient death dealing at all ranges—it has NO other use than that—-and because of that, the GUN has to be looked at as a problem along with the shooter.

        Were you ever an infantryman, Paul? Have you ever engaged anyone in hand-to-hand combat? It’s an “easy” thing to send a copper-jacketed pellet of lead at high velocity out the end of a rifle barrel and take someone’s life a couple of hundred yards away. Whack!—-just like shooting at targets (unless the other guy is shooting back—-then you need better shooting skills and better motivation than him).

        It’s a far different thing to beat someone to death with a baseball bat (or rock, or tire iron), and even more difficult to carry out a mass killing with any of those things. The closeup blood and screaming, the necessity to keep on striking, to say nothing of the fight put up by those who are fighting for their lives (who have not been instantly put down by a bullet, remember), is a turn-off and deterrent for all but the most deranged. You can have some hope of outrunning those “weapons” too, unlike a bullet. Since it takes so long to “deal death” with those weapons, you can also have some hope of help arriving before you die.

        I will never forget one piece of truth that a DI laid on us during bayonet drill one day. He was a Korean war vet who had fought at the Chosin Reservoir and knew from experience what he was talking about. He said to us during a break,

        “We teach you the bayonet and hand-to-hand because it’s good for building esprit and making you think you’re all stone cold killers for God, Corps, and Country. Remember this though, it’s a hard thing to stick a bayonet in someone, or club him to death with your rifle butt. It’s even harder to do it again and again if you’re overrun and fighting for your life face to face with a bunch of folks It’s much easier to shoot the enemy when he’s a hundred yards away. You can do that all day, but you will be in deep s**t if you ever have to use the bayonet in battle. Pay attention on the range—-put your faith in your rifle and your shooting skills and those of the Marines on either side of you”.

        He was right.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        WTS/JAY says, “Flashy: Without a doubt, out of all the “shills” that frequent this site, you, are the most despicable and reprehensible of the lot!”

        Sorry, JAY, but that title is hands-down owned by DaveH. Where is DaveH today? You seem to be saying a lot of the types of things he would say if he were here with us today—-are you a “tag team” of shills?—-do you and DaveH take turns?

        (Or is that a “despicable and reprehensible” thing for a “thinker” to say? Perhaps, but one can’t help wondering)

      • Flashy

        WTS…ironic isn’t it that the people who warn of a “police state” are the ones advocating for measures pushing us more to one?

        National lists of mental illness, arming of public places, etc etc.

        Nay, it is upon that bastion upon which the Moderates and progressives lay claim as the base our civil liberties upon. The very bastion being attacked by the pro gun people.

        i for one do not believe a national listing of mental illness etc will succeed to a solution. rather, I see such as a beginning of the police state and another chink in reason to arm the citizenry. In other words…to advocate such is to advocate the eventual loss of all liberty, Freedoms and Rights.

        Of those three proposals…you accept none? You accept unfettered access? you accept a society where you pack your gun when you leave the house much like one packs a lunch because…you never know when some lunatic is going to open up with their gun?

      • Flashy

        RBT…haven’t you heard? you’re also a “paid shill”. (i’m still waiting for my check. Seems no one will tell me who to bill…)

        Fear, hate, ignorance. The Trilogy for the TPers and American Taliban. They know, deep down, their views are extremist and almost everyone views them with the bemused raised eyebrow one has when Uncle Joe, he’s the one a mite touched, meanders to the reunion. Good for amusement but best keep your eye on him so he doesn’t over-imbibe and pees in the flower beds.

        So they pretend they are important, that there is an organized conspiracy to silence their voice, and that PLD is a national voice of “patriots”. Thus, anyone posting disagreement must be paid…because no sane reasonable person would disagree with what they shout.

        [comment has been edited]

      • DaveH

        Who would I be shilling for, Lizard Brain? Since I believe is Small Government and Individual Liberty, which is a far cry from where we are, what special interest group would pay me?
        And what evidence can you present to back up your case, LB? With Flashman, we have the fact that he and 8 other personalities were commenting from the same computer.
        You make no sense, Lizard Brain.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear DavidL,

        You write: “Excellent response, Flashy. I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for a substantive response from Bob, He’s out of bullets.” See response. Apology expected.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        RBT: To throw small snowballs of sanity into the roaring, mindless, and paranoid inferno of right wing “group think” that issues from the Gates of Hell called the PLD “discussion threads”? (To be fair and balanced, that “inferno” makes up perhaps at most 85-90% of the PLD site, even less on some threads).

        RBT, it appears you have completely come un-hinged! Sanity, from Flashy? Have you crossed-over to comedy-relief, RBT? Flashy has consistently shared his conviction that the Obama administration is our only way out of our present nightmare, and that Obama has nothing but the best of intentions for America’s prosperity, despite the evidence to the contrary. Now, if that isn’t insanity, i don’t know what is!

        RBT: roaring, mindless, and paranoid inferno of right wing “group think” that issues from the Gates of Hell called the PLD “discussion threads”?

        Why, because they do not agree with everything you say, RBT? One would think, that anyone who perceives that they are in a situation as you described above, would not hesitate one second to vacate such a horrific-environment. And yet, you remain; blathering on, day after day, how oppressed and uncomfortable you feel. Now, If that behaviour is not considered “insane”, i don’t know what behaviour should? Btw, why are u here, RBT?

      • JC

        hey Flashy…what history of the Old west are you talking about?
        The one you researched or the one that Hollywood invented?

        In the 6 years that Dodge City was incorporated, 6 people were shot dead.
        All of them by law enforcement.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Flashy throws a small snowball of sanity into the Gates of Hell and watches it go “pfffffft” as it turns instantly into a small cloud of steam. Well said, Flash—-”Fear, hate, ignorance. The Trilogy for the TPers and American Taliban”. You might have added “paranoia” to that list. I would disagree that “They know, deep down, their views are extremist”. They DO represent the extreme end of the “Republican Brain syndrome”, and, as such, are so consumed by motivated reasoning and confirmation bias that they will never reach the level of self-awareness that would allow them to “know” of what you speak.

        Flashy also says, “So they pretend they are important, that there is an organized conspiracy to silence their voice, and that PLD is a national voice of “patriots”. Thus, anyone posting disagreement must be paid…because no sane reasonable person would disagree with what they shout”. An interesting thesis, and one that their masters in the plutocracy and corporate oligarchy have exploited to their great benefit.

        DaveH asks, “Who would I be shilling for, Lizard Brain? Since I believe is Small Government and Individual Liberty, which is a far cry from where we are, what special interest group would pay me? And what evidence can you present to back up your case, LB?” Unfortunately, Dave, you give little evidence of really “believing” in anything. You do not present arguments in support of your beliefs but merely “read” from what seems to be a prepared script and parrot the same old tired horsepucky. That’s the best evidence that SOMEBODY is paying you—-to paraphrase Flash, “no sane and reasonable person would so diligently and mindlessly shout” the same old tired horsepucky (and lies) that you do. What “special interest” group, you ask? Perhaps the Koch brothers, Karl Rove, Dick Armey, the Mises Foundation, Heritage or Cato, the Chamber of Commerce, ALEC, the NRA—-there are many possibilities (and I will stay away from the “closer to home” possibilities to avoid being “disappeared”). I AM certain that somewhere in there we will find fingerprints of the plutocracy and corporate oligarchy—–you SAY you are for “small government and individual liberty” but the body of your postings shows that to be a “front”—you are a shill for the 1%.

        And the “new” but “old” WTS/JAY takes me to task for daring to throw my own small snowballs into the Gates of Hell and accused me of “becoming unhinged and crossing over to comedy-relief”. So much for the First Amendment.

        Yes, “Flashy has consistently shared his conviction that the Obama administration is our only way out of our present nightmare, and that Obama has nothing but the best of intentions for America’s prosperity”, and any evidence to the contrary is just the motivated reasoning of the fearful, paranoid, hateful, and ignorant. And guess what?, the country agreed with Flashy and I, and the sore losers and haters that cannot recognize that fact are doomed to extinction.

        JAY feels the need to quote me a second time with “RBT: roaring, mindless, and paranoid inferno of right wing “group think” that issues from the Gates of Hell called the PLD “discussion threads”? Of course he would do so, because he is trying to turn folks against me and I’ve given him a wonderful weapon—-I knew SOMEONE would use it in that way when I said it—-God forbid that anyone would actually THINK about what I said and debate the point.

        Jay asks, “Why, because they do not agree with everything you say, RBT? One would think, that anyone who perceives that they are in a situation as you described above, would not hesitate one second to vacate such a horrific environment”.
        I, unlike many others who post on PLD, do NOT demand that people agree with me. I present opinions and arguments based on rational analysis of facts in an attempt to get folks to THINK—-some actually do, although most of the “PLD group thinkers” just call me names and fail to address the substance of what I say. I don’t find the environment “horrific” at all,and I don’t feel “oppressed and uncomfortable” in the least —-in fact PLD reminds me of what I lived with for 30 years in the school business (or at least the more extreme and less rational aspects of that experience). It matters little to me whether anyone agrees with me—-I would expect those who do to be a distinct minority and actually “measure” my impact more by seeing who attacks me (and whether folks completely “ignore” some of my postings—those are “wins” (think about that last one). At any rate, all of it is just water off a duck’s back and I will “vacate” PLD once I cease to learn from my exposure to a group of folks that tend to be way “out there” on the fringe.

        JAY also says, “And yet, you remain, blathering on, day after day”. First, I do take time off from PLD and comment on just a few threads, and anyone who considers my contributions to be “blathering” is a fool—-I have ripped DaveH and WTS/JAY to shreds more than 90% of the time we have been engaged and JAY is just posturing and beating his chest in denial of that, as DAveH does nearly all the time.

        In closing, JAY asks, “Btw, why are u here, RBT?”. Easy question to answer—-to learn, of course—-to conduct some “research” into political psychology and political neuroscience—-to try to understand why a group of people would espouse a belief system that is diametrically opposed to their own self-interest and goes against the greater good of the nation—–to try to understand why they would become foot soldiers for the plutocracy and corporate oligarchy that has bought the government and is working to turn the country into a corporate feudal state.

    • DaveH

      Notice Flashshill’s frequent use of the word “extremist” lately.
      Who is the only other person to use that word on Chip’s article over the weekend?
      You guessed it — Jeremy, the character who claims he isn’t an alter-ego or fellow shill of Flashman’s.
      “Coincidentally”, both Jeremy and Flashman also called Bob Livingston a liar on that same board:
      http://personalliberty.com/2012/12/28/should-we-arm-our-teachers/#comment-795716

      • Flashy

        Davey boy…a) I didn’t write what you allege; and b) Aunt Maggie isn’t watching, here’s another beer…

      • DaveH

        Sure you did, Flashman, right here:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/12/28/should-we-arm-our-teachers/#comment-795469

        Flashman said — “Mr. Livingston. he claimed an IP address was identical and the six (or 7) he listed were all one person. Despite protests and denials by everyone listed..which was somewhat humorous as there were conservative and progressive writers in the group often times flaming each other in posts…Mr. Livingston had to stick with his claim or lose cred”.

        Remember what I said yesterday, Folks? Even when chronic liars are caught red-handed, they will deny their lies.

      • Flashy

        Never called Mr. Livingston anything Davie. See anything there stating that? ….and I note you carefully clipped around that statement. What you selectively pasted is part of the explanation of the reasoning you keep harping about what never was or is.

        Was it eight people? i don’t recall nor care. but I do remember it was claimed including posters from all sides and levels of ideologies…kinda funny if one was several ideologies …if that’s what you claim, then you also claim that was the only way PLD was having so many posters.

        Whatever….

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        DaveH: Notice Flashshill’s frequent use of the word “extremist” lately.

        Because, Flashy is an extremist, DaveH. Just as all thieves suspect everyone to be thieves, and liars accuse everyone of lying; likewise, extremists unknowingly project their inner-corruption on to others.

      • DaveH

        You’re equivocating again, Flashshill.
        By saying — “Mr. Livingston had to stick with his claim or lose cred” — you were accusing him of lying.
        What a twisted Liberal Progressive you are, Flashman. And unfortunately there are many like you.

    • CZ52

      “Aside from the Right to own a gun and keep in in the home, the Right of the 2nd is not absolute,”

      The 2nd amendment says “…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

      What part of “and bear” confuses you flashy. It is very clear that we have the right to bear (carry) our firearms without infringement.

      • Flashy

        CZ…i listed several ways the 2nd has been limited. With broad acclaim and approval. Examples were given for class of people, place, manner, type, time.

        Now…as you were saying?

      • DaveH

        For those poor ignorant souls who would believe anything Flashshill says:
        http://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm

        Yes, the Constitution has been usurped many times by the Federal Government and their member Court. No, that does not mean we need let them continue being lawbreakers.

    • cawmun cents

      Two things really Flashy that jump out at me….
      1.You use the word “we”,in a way which connotates that I automatically am in lock step with your rather infantile idealism.
      2.You want to add government regulation to a nation which already has too many of them now.
      Government regulates housing=people lose their houses
      Government regulation of commerce=people losing their jobs
      Government regulation of firearms=?(it is expressly in the Constitution,that these rights not be abridged)
      So your marxist revolutionary idea of more regulation,just servees to show the rest of the thinking people here,that you dont know scat from shoe polish.
      Am I being clear enough in what I find in error about what you posted?
      Cheers!
      -CC.

      • Flashy

        CZ…you are clear in stating that you find error in using common sense and historical supporting facts.

        Now..what’s your solution to the issues of guns and violence in our society?

      • DaveH

        The same solution as the one to preserve Freedom.
        Stop letting Power-hungry Liberal Progressives make people defenseless against evil people, whether they be private citizens or Politicians.

        Flashshill and his buddies are no different than the guys who would restrain you while their cohorts beat the tar out of you.

    • DaveH

      Flashman says — “there are the gun freaks who demand that there be no interference with turning this nation into an armed camp where everyone needs a weapon to be able to walk the streets and ward off those who would impose their will and want by the rule of the gun”.
      Hmmm — Those who would impose their will and want by the rule of the gun? Sounds like the Progressives to me, of which Flashman is one (or 2, 3, …. 9?)

      Flashman says — “First, we have a clash of Rights. the Rights of the People under the First, the Ninth, the fourteenth and the PreAmble of the Constitution of the United States”.
      Yet he conveniently fails to provide us with his “wisdom” of how the 2nd Amendment clashes with those rights.

      Flashman then says — “Without question, the 2nd recognizes people may own guns and keep them in their home”.
      Here is the 2nd Amendment:
      “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”.
      Anybody see anything in there about homes?

      Then Flashman goes on to say things similar to — “We recognize limitations on PLACE. Gun free zones, sporting events, schools, etc.”.
      As if the fact that the Government has been ignoring the Constitution for decades somehow changes the law.
      That’s what Personal Liberty is here for — to awaken the people to the lawlessness of modern-day Big Government. The Liberal Progressives, like Flashman, want us all to be restricted and hobbled by laws but they ignore the breaking of Laws by their own kind.
      Our nation was created to be a Government by Laws, NOT a Government by Men:
      http://www.cato.org/blog/government-laws-not-men

      If Flashman is indeed correct that the majority of people want the 2nd Amendment to be altered, then they should have no trouble getting the votes necessary to create a New Amendment to the Constitution to address those issues. Until then, they are acting lawlessly (no surprise there for the immoral Liberal Progresses).

      By now, Folks, you should be getting the sense that Flashshill is just doing his level best to Propagandize you in favor of even Bigger Government than we already have. What else would a Big Government shill do?

      Government spending in 1910 — 8% of the GDP.
      Government spending now — 41% of the GDP.

      Is it any wonder who has caused the mess we’re in?

      • Flashy

        “As if the fact that the Government has been ignoring the Constitution for decades somehow changes the law.” <— Davey boy

        ummm…Davey…I believe each of those exceptions to the 2nd has passed Constitutional muster. When two rights clash, one or both may bear a burden so as to maintain the Right as unburdened as possible, yet allow the other to also remain as lightly burdened as possible.

        Your arguments are simplistic, shallow lacking any depth, and rote intended only for superficial minds.

      • DaveH

        For those who are as ignorant about the Constitution as Flashman would like you to be:
        The Supreme Court was never given the Power in the Constitution to be the Final Arbiters of Constitutionality. They just took that Power in the early 1800s.
        Imagine expecting a branch of the Federal Government to strongly enforce Constitutionality against their own gang? Like the Fox watching the Hen House.

        Here is the Constitution of the US. See if you can find anywhere in here that the Supreme Court would be the final arbiter of Constitutionality:
        http://www.cato.org/pubs/constitution/constitution_en.html

      • Flashy

        Davey…the case is Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137 (1803). You might want to read it…

      • DaveH

        The chances of me wasting my time reading that trampling of the Constitution by Justice Marshall are about the same as the chances of you ever being an honest man, Flashshill.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Flashy,

      You write: “…on one hand, there are the gun freaks who demand that there be no interference with turning this nation into an armed camp where everyone needs a weapon to be able to walk the streets and ward off those who would impose their will and want by the rule of the gun.” Judgmental language.

      You write: “They have been fed the malarkey that of all the Constitution and Amendments, the 2nd means thy (sic) can act out their fantasies, support their feelings of insecurities, and run roughshod over the Rights and Will of the People.” Mind projection fallacy.

      You write: “On the other end of the spectrum, feeding off the anger of the majority, taking advantage of the anger, the frustration, and the no longer disguised disgust at the gun freaks mentality and unwillingness to consider any sane and reasonable attempt at solidifying the safety of Americans everywhere they go., there is the anti gun and anti 2nd Amendment contingent.” Another mind projection fallacy, with ad hominem.

      You write: “Both extremes are using the issue for money and power.” Proof by bald assertion.

      You write: “First, we have a clash of Rights. the Rights of the People under the First, the Ninth, the fourteenth and the PreAmble of the Constitution of the United States. And we have the Right as recognized in the 2nd Amendment … the only one, BTW, which also states the reason for it’s (sic) existence.” Red herring. These rights do not “clash.”

      You write: “Without question, the 2nd recognizes people may own guns and keep them in their home.” Please point out for me where the word “home” is found in the 2nd Amendment.

      You write: “Do you argue that felons should not be allowed weapons? Mentally ill? Minors?” Straw man.

      You write: “We recognize limitations on PLACE. Gun free zones, sporting events, schools, etc.” I recognize that mass shootings are more apt to occur at gun-free zones. I recognize that Obama sends his kids to a school with armed guards and recognizes the need to have arm guards surrounding him and his family at all times.

      You write: “We recognize restrictions on MANNER. Concealed Weapons Permits, unloaded traveling in car, most states have open carry restrictions, etc.” You may. I do not, as I believe they are unConstitutional, previous court rulings notwithstanding.

      You write: “And finally, we have the recognized restrictions on TYPE. We can, and have, banned or limited the sale of machine guns, fully auto rifles and pistols, sawed off shotguns, semi auto assault rifle, tanks, etc.” Some of these are available provided the owner obtains prior “approval” from government masters.

      You write: “Would you argue the 2nd extends so far as to allow those?” Yes.

      You write: “…just what would you think is reasonable in attempting to restrict bad guys from obtaining weapons?” There are currently many laws in place to prevent “bad guys” from obtaining weapons. Therefore they obtain them on the black market or through the use of straw man purchasers. There are laws regarding those activities as well, hence the recent arrest of the straw [wo]man purchaser for the man who shot the firefighters. “Bad guys” do not honor laws against assault, theft or murder. A law that says it’s illegal for them to own a weapon is irrelevant. There are also laws against selling illicit drugs and laws against selling moonshine, yet people purchase and use drugs and purchase and use moonshine. No amount of laws will prevent illegal activity from taking place.

      You write: “The FACT that restricting the carrying of firearms, and controlling access to guns, the fact that it works is not only common sense, but historically proven. let’s take Didge (sic) City, Kansas. From Day One of it’s (sic) formalized incoroporation, (sic) the city had gun control. There’s a photograph taken in Dodge City in 1879. Everything looks exactly as you’d imagine: wide, dusty road; clapboard and brick buildings; horse ties in front of the saloon. Right in the middle of the street is a huge wooden billboard announcing, “The Carrying of Firearms Strictly Prohibited (sic).” Dodge City in 1870 is irrelevant to today.

      You write: “Common sense, sane rational reasoning. The more guns allowed in public, the higher the likelihood there will be violence.” Proof by bald assertion.

      You write: “And…in each burden placed upon the 2nd…the over-riding Rights are those contained in the PreAmble, the First, the Ninth and the Fourteenth.” Kettle logic.

      You write: “The reasonable burdens which are being discussed the most are …”
      “Ban the future sale of semi automatic ‘assault type’ weapons. Those in existence, place restrictions on when they may be functional and how stored. they are weapons primarily offensive in nature, and despite the claims…anyone with a straight face won’t argue they are hunting rifles. Unless a human being is the prey.” Another logical fallacy by you. Please demonstrate how this will prevent a mass shooting… or any murder for that matter. This is an unreasonable burden which will do nothing more than make you and your fellow gun grabbers feel good. The AR15, by the way, is often used for hunting.

      You write: “The reasonable burdens which are being discussed the most are …”
      “Mandate a uniform minimum requirement for carrying a weapon outside the home. Technical training, situational awareness, and live fire proficiency examinations.” Another logical fallacy by you. Please demonstrate what this will do to prevent another mass shooting… or any murder for that matter. This would serve only to place another burden on the legal gun owner.

      You write: “The reasonable burdens which are being discussed the most are …
      “Register each sale of a gun. Every time a gun is sold, the Seller must register the sale of the gun and the buyer, including conducting a background check. If a gun is used in a crime, it can be traced back to see who is selling to the bad guys. If a sale is not registered, a hefty fine and open to civil claims by any victims of a subsequent crime (if the sale is registered and done properly, no liability from civil claims as there was no indication it would be a criminal weapon).” Despite a law to the contrary, the FBI has admitted it maintains records of gun sales and has been registering g un owners since 1998. Here are some of the problems with background checks and registration efforts. http://gunowners.org/fs2011b.htm This would do nothing to prevent another mass shooting or shooting of any kind. Tracing the sale of weapons in recent mass shootings has not proved problematic for the investigators. Such a law would, however, make criminals out of law abiding citizens who might sell a weapon to someone using fake identification.

      You write: “given the 2nd not being absolute” This is your conclusion, not mine.

      You write: “What Mr. Livingston, just what is acceptable to you?” We already have more laws than we need which create burdens on the lawful gun owner. Please propose some law that will be effective to prevent murders but will not infringe on the right guaranteed under the 2nd Amendment and I will consider it and discuss it with you.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Flashy

        “I do not, as I believe they are unConstitutional, previous court rulings notwithstanding.” <— Bob Livingston

        Mr. Livingston..i use the above quote from you to demonstrate that when one even refuses to acknowledge court rulings interpreting the Constitution of the United States, it is worthless to enter any reasonable, serious and intelligent debate.

        You have your viewpoints, including the refusal to recognize the rulings of the SCOTUS and lower courts, the Rule of Law being the Golden thread separating civilization from barbarians.

        I have mine.

        Enjoy the holiday.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Flashy,

          You write: “i use the above quote from you to demonstrate that when one even refuses to acknowledge court rulings interpreting the Constitution of the United States…” Extraconstitutional rulings by a judicial oligarchy are no less unConstitutional.

          You write: “…it is worthless to enter any reasonable, serious and intelligent debate.” As is trying to have a “reasonable, serious and intelligent debate” with someone who attempts to change the meaning of words, recast the meaning of the Constitution and create “facts” out of whole cloth in order to support a statist ideology.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • DaveH

        What is “worthless” Flashshill is to debate with somebody who hasn’t got the intelligence to know that the Supreme Court was never intended to be the final arbiter of Constitutionality. They just took that right. And now they use the ignorance of the people to stand guard over the Federal Hen House and give its illegitimate laws the appearance of legitimacy.

    • DaveH

      Flashman says — “Both extremes are using the issue for money and power”.

      Anybody, who believes that Flashshill and his buddies are only going to put it in part way, has the brains of a Lizard. Yeah, a Lizard Brain.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        DaveH, do you happen to have a copy of Flashy admitting he is paid to come on PLD?

      • DaveH

        I don’t think he’s ever admitted that, Buster.
        This is the closest I’ve seen him come:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/04/06/do-the-media-want-a-race-war/#comment-572798

        Flashman said — “And I’m on this site partly for entertainment, partly for standing up for America, and partly as a segment of my research to do my job”.

      • DaveH

        It’s not hard at all to believe that Flashshill’s idea of entertainment is to harass good people.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        ” …and partly as a segment of my research to do my job”.”

        That is the one I was thinking about DaveH. Since he comes on here as a part of his job he is being paid to come on this site. Since he also posts comments on this site he is paid to post them. While not admitting outright he is a paid shill the evidence indicates that is in fact what he is.

  • Eshardball

    There is no question that at some time, someone may use a rifle that looks like a military weapon to commit an attrocity. Big Pharma does share much of the blame for manufacturing phsycos to the tune of billions of dollars. I don’t see a rush to apply the same thought process to the private ownership of automobiles as I do towards the black rifle. A car can be propelled to highway speed with a fraction of the hp that is available today but no one is demonizing the car as the cause for the over 10,000 DUI fatalities a year that occur. Banning specific cars for having mag wheels, airfoils or tinted windows follows the same train of thought that is applied in the proposed Assault weapon Ban yet society would be quick to reject the formation of the ATF(Assault Vehicle Task Force) claiming that they do not drink and drive. There is little difference although one course of action would be labeled as ridiculous and the other as reasonable. If the Government wanted to stop creating an environment where its citizens felt so threatened that they needed to prepare for a civil war, they could repeal the Patriot Act, Repeal the NDAA and prosecute our government officials for the crimes that they have committed against their own citizens. I live in a state where safe firearm storage is law. I don’t wish to disparage the mother of the Newtown murderer but one has to ask why she chose to arm someone who was so obviously unstable. My son never got acess to my guns because he did not display the emotional maturity that would have been required for me to feel comfortable teaching him. I can live with some background checks like the NICS check if it keeps guns out of the hands of the insane but we have to come to grips that closing our revolving door justice system and educating the public about their responsibilities to society if they wish to own guns means making it as difficult as possible for someone to get to their guns without their consent. Want to encourage safe gun storage? Make a Gun Safe a Tax deduction. All of what we are seeing by the current Administration is a pre cursor to civilian disarmament. The Swiss are a great role model to follow. Perhaps we need to look at their society and start to follow what is already proven to work. What a Surprise! REAL assault weapons (Selective fire) everywhere and very little crime.

    • Richard Theilmann

      In a related post, I had called for the bullets to be controlled. This idea IS MODELED upon the Swiss model. I know someone who went to school over there, (1993 through 2005). The bullets are VERY CONTROLLED, must be accounted for… every last one of them. NO SELF RELOADING. You can’t purchase primers, powder, etc. Target practice at approved ranges only. Empties returned for fresh, no more than a doz. at a time.

      • CZ52

        From what I have read your claims ONLY apply to the government issued ammunition. The people are free to purchase ammunition for hunting and target practice.

  • Joe Slater

    In October, I presented the following to Re.p. Jim Jordan of Ohio to urge him to take action. Obviously, I was ignored. What do the rest of you think and, would you help me gain traction with your Congress people?

    Our country is constantly being assaulted by our own Congress and from UN and other treaties in regards to infringement of our Constitutional rights which begs the need for a 29th Amendment to our Constitution. This new Amendment should have wording similar to the following:

    Should Congress and the Executive Branch pass into law any bill that would contain wording that would cause an infringement of any rights guaranteed by our Constitution, the wording of the existing Constitution and Bill of Rights will supersede the wording of the new bill/law.

    Should Congress or any other US Official (Secretary of State, President, et al) enter into and/or agree to a treaty that would contain wording and/or clauses that would infringe the Constitutional Rights guaranteed by the US Constitution and our Bill of Rights, the wording of our Constitution and Bill of Rights shall supersede and nullify those provisions in said treaty or agreement.

    It is absolutely essential this Amendment be introduced to Congress and forwarded to the States for ratification, at once. Please do all in your capability to make this happen. If you’re a citizen, urge your Congress people to cosponsor this effort and, move it through Congress, posthaste. If you’re a Congressperson, please sponsor or cosponsor this effort, putting all other business aside.

    • Flashy

      Your ‘proposal” probably wasn’t ignored…it was likely turned into a joke within the Congressman’s circle.

      Because it is a joke. no one with a grain of sanity and reason would think of that as anything but a joke

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Can we literally embarrass our government into action? I do not know, but given the fact that little else is working right now, I think it is high time we try. On that note, President Obama, Speaker Boehner, Senator Reid, and every member of Congress and Senate…. you are collectively a JOKE!! Show us otherwise and prove me wrong!

      • Flashy

        WTS…leaving out the presidential election…given the paralysis in Congress…did you vote for the incumbents for Senate and House? Did you reward them for this mess by sending them back with another extension to their employment?

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Your ‘proposal” probably wasn’t ignored…it was likely turned into a joke within the Congressman’s circle.
        Because it is a joke. no one with a grain of sanity and reason would think of that as anything but a joke”.

        There you have it, Folks. The shill Flashman admits (although in ignorance) that the Leaders could care less about what you think.
        Thank you for that rare bit of honesty, Flashshill.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Ha, Flash stepped right into his own pile of “you know what”! He is probably being given a tongue-lashing by his handlers as we speak, Dave, for getting so sloppy! Perhaps Flashy’s alter-ego, Jeremy, or, as i affectionately refer to him as; Sir, [expletive deleted] a-lot…will soon come aboard and save the day!

      • DaveH

        It probably is a severe drain on Flashman’s brain to pretend he’s a nice guy. So I imagine he needs to recharge.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Lol! Good one, Dave!

  • ToughGuy1

    I’m a good guy, not mental or have a criminal record. But Obama and his criminals want to out man us. If I have, a business to protect and survival, I defend it too! I was a California National Guardsmen at the time of the LA Riots going on, We had to support and defend business owners and their property. Army California Guardsman stationed in my hometown Arcadia, CA. Los Angeles County. Travel into downtown LA in the city of Compton. To protect defend and keep the peace. With my M-16A2 rifle with 3 rounds in my 40 capacity magazine. Real scary!

    • Flashy

      Scary. Why? Because the bad guys had guns ?

      How did they get them?

      Now, would you have felt a bit safer and at ease of accomplishing ths mission if there weren’t so many guns out in the streets?

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Guns are not, the problem, you intellectually-stunted moron; the radical-fringe, criminals are the problem. Criminals like Eric Holder with his “Fast and Furious” genius-idea of placing assault-rifles into the hands of criminals we need to address. Of what profit are gun-control laws when the very same people who insist upon them, are the very same who violate them??? Back in your cage, “Shill”!

      • Flashy

        WTS…how did the “problem”..the “the radical-fringe, criminals” get their guns? What are your proposals to keep them from getting those guns? Can you tell us who is supplying them with guns?

        Step to the fore Sparky…what’s your solution?

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Flashy the shill: WTS…how did the “problem”..the “the radical-fringe, criminals” get their guns? What are your proposals to keep them from getting those guns? Can you tell us who is supplying them with guns?

        Did you wake up stupid, Flashy, or do you suffer from a congenital-diformity? I have already answered those question…as well, i have addressed the reason for your presence here at PLD. Feigning ignorance no longer cuts-it, Flashy!

      • Flashy

        WTS … I must be missing it. the only address i saw by you was mentioning a Fringe element. your solution is ???

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Flashy the “Shill”: WTS … I must be missing it. the only address i saw by you was mentioning a Fringe element. your solution is ???

        Let’s make it simple, Flashy. The proliferation of assault-weapons can be directly traced to Eric Holder’s “Fast and Furious”!

        So, firstly, i would incarcerate Mr. Holder for LIFE, to begin with! And all those who were complicit and aided Mr. Holder.

        Secondly, i would incarcerate, and/or, apply the deterrent of Capital-Punishment on all those who use a “Gun” to commit a “Crime”, ie…murder, robbery ect…Deterrent? Yes, as a dead criminal is not a “reapet-offender”!

        How’s that for starters? What’s you solution, shill; disarm law-abiding citizens, and insure that criminals remain armed to the teeth?

      • DaveH

        Flashshill asks — “Now, would you have felt a bit safer and at ease of accomplishing ths mission if there weren’t so many guns out in the streets?”.

        I’d feel safer if there weren’t Liberal Progressives trampling my Freedom and taking my property as fast as they can.
        I guess I can see where Flashshills coming from, because being such a dishonest and immoral person he must assume everybody around him is equally dishonest and immoral.
        But I believe 99% of people are decent and moral (or at least try to be), so I would feel much safer if I knew lots of good people were packing, so that when the very rare lunatic starts shooting, or stabbing people, or some other deadly action, those decent people can save me and others who are defenseless and unarmed.

  • TIME

    Dear People,

    Let me make this quite simple for you all of you,
    { the 2nd Amendment is not for duck hunting,} It was placed in law for ONE reason and ONE reason ONLY.

    That single reason was when the TIME came that the population of what was once a “FREE NATION” had a government that became so “Opressive” by way of its “Pernicious laws” as well its overt and covert acts of malices toward the nations population,
    The noted population had the option to commit to form of redress that would be of an equal nature to the opressive law makers greed and lust for Power over the FREE PEOPLE..

    { There is no other way to view this issue no matter what level one trys to spin the bottle from.}

    The 1st Amendment gave all persons of the FREE nation a “Voice” when the noted Voice becomes restricted, you have the second Amendment platform from what to spring forth to remedy the issue’s / issues that have been grevously breached by the criminal form of Governance.

    Both the 1st and 2nd Amendments Congress nor any branch of the Governement have the RIGHT nor the ABILITY ~ to change or tamper with in any way shape nor form, nor do they have the noted ability to restrict nor impair said Amendments.

    We have long since passed the 1st Amendments base remedy factors. And the breaches have been many and vast in content, thus the 2nd also has been tampered with in restrictive ways that breach its Confines as well the TRUE base meaning and value of the noted 1st and 2nd Amnendments.

    ALL Americans are now within the crosshairs of the Corporation known as the IMF who owns the platform you all think of as your Government. As the IMF is bound by its charter to the UN, as well the Bank of London ~ aka the Rothschilds empire now by the way also Rockefeller’s ~ thus you have the equation of these “RULERS” what their land / nation / property back, { its not thiers} as they did not have a proper nor legal CONTRACT with the American people.
    The noted CONTRACT they are going by was done behind the American peoples collective backs thus making all agrements “NULL & VOID”

    People – you can either stand or you will certainly fall.
    Thats where we stand as of this day 12/31/12 You can not allow any more effort’s by these Criminals to Enslave you. Stand up.

    If you allow what is going to be shoved in your face based on now at least three “100% FAKED EVENTS,”
    We all will fall victim to this malicious agressive cancer, called a “Police State.”

    I am also 100% Sure that at least two more of these horror based events will be forth coming within the next few months if not days or weeks, perhaps even this very day,
    Of what these events will gain in Horror value, there will be { at least one more 100% FAKED event that will take place,” Also ONE that will be very real.

    As to the NON event at Sandy Hook, all one need to explore is: the “Greenburg” family, there in is the KEY to all of the Faked events.

    If anyone out there is a Lawyer that does “CRIMINAL LAW” you need to get your act together and get a Case filed ASAP. All of what has been done fits the profile of
    “the RECO act” we are faced with a CRIMINAL venture being carried out by 535 + SC + all the EXC branch. And the FEDERAL RESERVE.

    This would be the case of the millenium, your fame would be renown world wide for winning this case as well it would be a “slam dunk” as its all doucmented, much of it on flim.

    Wake up people, this is not a game, this is the REAL DEAL.

    ” A MARXIST POLICE STATE” can NOT exist with an ARMED population.

    Peace and Love, Shalom, May the Holy Sprit & the Christ be with you.

    • http://yahoo gail

      Then Time you tell me how Barack Obama gets Obama care with executive order when the Congress did not agree on it? You also tell me how Obama did an executive order for the military to hold people as long as they want private citizens these 537 are part of the new world order we should be ashamed for voting these people in office for the last 60 yrs

      • tony newbill

        The Government sitting on the top of their little World View sees all the people of the world as a Threat to earth , thats why we see them so dysfunctional !!!!

        • http://yahoo gail

          You can say that again they love spending someone elses money while executive orderin a raise for them????

      • TIME

        Dear Gail,

        I fail to understand what you asking, can you please clarify what you’re asking me?

        As to the AHCA, and the NDAA niether was done by EO, they were done by 535 Criminals and to that I agree.

        Peace and love Shalom,

    • Karolyn

      The Right’s Second Amendment Lies
      http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/12/22

    • Flashy

      ” A CIVILZED SAFE AND FREE SOCIETY” can NOT exist with an ARMED population.

      A State exists by the acceptance of the People to co exist, ceding personal freedoms for the whole of society and the protection and benefits thereof. It is a contract amongst and between them, accepting limitations for compromise, safety, wealth, welfare of the whole. Such leads to the creation of the Sate bound by that agreement. Not by force of the gun.

      • tony newbill

        Flashy putting all your trust in a Ideologically strung out Government thats see you as the problem rather than the solution is why you must maintian the 2 second amendment in its entirety !!
        they are capable of doing things you would not conceive as Human , see here , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlH6srJPDoo&feature=player_embedded

      • Joe Slater

        You should quit reading the tenets of Mao, Marx, Hitler, and Stalin. They have infused you with thoughts that would indicate to any sane person, you need the help of a psychiatrist and, should be one of the many who should be barred from purchasing/owning a firearm. Your effort to conceal your identity should be a hint to your psyche.

        Do you flash only adult women or, do you also flash children ?

    • tony newbill

      Time is right !!!
      Just watch this Video and ask yourself with all the Governments worry over the growth in Population , and why all the Broke Airlines are still running somehow its reasonable to assume that we are having this happen still today and being disarmed is all part of the plan …. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlH6srJPDoo&feature=player_embedded

    • FreedomFighter

      Dead on TIME, and they are closing the noose.

      I believe they will push us to civil war.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Norm

        My My Now that is serious.

      • TIME

        Dear FF,

        Saddly you are correct,

        Do you know what Pick 7 is? I will check back later when I have some time and explain it if any of you don’t.

        As saddly I fear its going to go down that road, and that breaks my heart.
        As I loathe Violence, but what I loathe even more are the Illierate,~ ignorant buffoons who post here daily with their feckless uneducated drivel as if they presented pearls of wisdom on mass, when in fact waste material has for more probative value.

        Peace and Love Shalom

    • TIME

      Dear People,

      Please google: } the Lone Star watchdog,12/29/12 { pull up the story from Pravda 12/28/12 noted as the
      { Russian Press Pravda message to the American people.}

      Its a very good reminder of when ~ what is Lost is never regained,

      Peace and Love Shalom.

  • http://www.personalliberty.com Darwin

    Take a look at the video games our young people are playing!! Hours and hours a day! The very popular ones all involve violence and killing–makes shooting people and killing exciting and even rewarding. Hideous music from our Gangster Rappers and other sicko’s, promote hate, violence, rape and killing. I would bet my last dollar, these young mass-murderers spent thousands of hours playing these games and/or listening to the disgusting, anti-social “music”–on ear-phones turned up loud, their minds and heart pounding. Even some cartoons our littlest ones watch promote violence, killing, and dis-respect for life. The seed is planted in the minds of young people at a very early age and with years of repetition, murder is common place, it’s OK, even FUN!! They get bored doing it on a video game, need to see real blood for the real “rush”! The gun-haters should focus on controlling the violence instilled into young minds, and let us keep our guns to protect ourselves and loved ones against the crazy killers this type of media produces. Mass murders will likely increase dramatically if we have to turn in our guns. Only criminals and the insane will have them.

    • tony newbill

      Yes we are Creating a society of Virtual Killing machines that during this training lose the Reality of killing and become cold to its realism that is suppose to be the deterrent along with developing a love for life and liberty for all that comes from a family atmosphere that use to revolve around family traditions that included united conversations and positive views of what Life and Liberty represented to communities , Peace and Love , not Mayhem , which thats what all these Violent Videos and Movies have brought into the communities , and these scenes are the babysitters for the family while a Decayed self reliant economic system that has been the result of a failed Government Economic trade policy that Took away slowly our good paying Jobs and with it the local circulation of our cash that sustains a Community and a Local Tax base for local Infrastructure that we provided ourselves sustaining self reliance with was out sourced and replaced with a devaluing service sector Job that reduced the pay scale as the cash circulated out of the USA through the Big Box retail sector that is just sitting in the middle of a devaluing Currency swap thats now led to the All Time record bailout of the 2 big 2 fail Financial System and has left us all High and dry with No self reliance and totally dependent on foreign supply sources Never to come back in a Equity form and caused everyone to work more and spend less time as a family unit and in turn we see the results !
      This was NOT the Societies Fault and the People in Charge that drafted Policies over the years that got us in this Mess are the smartest guys we elected their resumes so us this so I say it was all Planned !!!!!

  • DaveH

    Mass murders (no guns involved) in schools in China where private citizens are not allowed to possess guns:
    2006 Shiguan — 12 killed, 5 injured.
    2010 Linchang — 9 killed, 11 injured.
    2004 Ruzhou — 9 killed, 3 injured.
    2010 Nanping — 8 killed, 5 injured.
    1996 Mietain — 7 killed, 5 injured.

    Note that only 1 of the 5 killers committed suicide.

    Our latest wore a bullet-proof vest and then committed suicide (hmmm).

    • nc

      DaveH, if your plan was to kill as many as you can before you die I can’t think of a better device than a bullet proof vest to extend the killing time! Can you? humm

      • DaveH

        Actually NC, it is proven that More Guns means Less Violent crime:
        http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493660/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356969764&sr=8-1&keywords=more+guns+less+crime

        So what you Liberal Progressives are doing is not only immoral (preventing good people from protecting their lives), but it is counter-productive. More people will die if you uneducated Liberal Progressives get your way. Not to mention the very real possibility of total disarmament and dictatorship.

        We can see it just in the stats between Utah (the least gun-controlled state) and California (the most gun-controlled state):
        2011 Utah murder rate — 1.9 per 100,000.
        2011 California murder rate — 4.8 per 100,000 (3 times as many as Utah).

        What does it take for you ignorant Liberal Progressive followers to figure out that the real goal of Liberal Progressive Leaders is total disarmament so they can do as they please to us?

      • Flashy

        So much for your ‘proof’ Davey boy. let me guess, you’ll soon cite studies from the tobacco industry showing cigarettes don’t cause cancer and state such is ‘proof’ cigarettes don’t cause cancer…
        ======================
        Academic studies that have rejected Lott’s conclusions include the following. These studies contend that there seems to be little or no effect on crime from the passage of license-to-carry laws. Donohue’s 2003 study finds a temporary increase in aggravated assaults.

        Rutgers sociology professor Ted Goertzel stated that “Lott’s massive data set was simply unsuitable for his task”, and that he “compar[ed] trends in Idaho and West Virginia and Mississippi with trends in Washington, D.C. and New York City” without proper statistical controls. He points out that econometric methods (such as the Lott & Mustard RTC study or the Levitt & Donohue abortion study) are susceptible to misuse and can even become junk science.[14]

        Ian Ayres, Yale Law School, and John Donohue, Stanford Law School, “Shooting Down the More Guns, Less Crime Hypothesis,” Stanford Law Review, 2003.[15]

        Jens Ludwig, Georgetown University, “Concealed-Gun-Carrying Laws and Violent Crime: Evidence from State Panel Data”, International Review of Law and Economics, 1998.[16]

        Dan Black and Daniel Nagin, “Do ‘Right-to-Carry’ Laws Deter Violent Crime?” Journal of Legal Studies, Vol. 27, No. 1, pp. 209–213 (January 1998).

        Mark Duggan, University of Chicago, “More Guns, More Crime,” National Bureau of Economic Research, NBER Working Paper No. W7967, October 2000, later published in Journal of Political Economy.[17]

        Tomislav V. Kovandzic and Thomas B. Marvell, “Right-To-Carry Concealed Firearms and Violent Crime: Crime Control Through Gun Decontrol?” Criminology and Public Policy 2, (2003) pp. 363-396.

        John J. Donahue III, Stanford Law School, ‘The Final Bullet in the Body of the More Guns, Less Crime Hypothesis’, Criminology and Public Policy, 2003.[18]

        John Donohue and Ian Ayres. “More Guns, Less Crime Fails Again: The Latest Evidence from 1977–2006″ Econ Journal Watch 6.2 (2009): 218-238.[19]

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Now you are quoting socialist-progressive-professors, Flashy? How low will you sink? This is a new-low, even for you!

      • anonymous

        Obviously you are so stupid that are what I refer to as a SHEEPEL, you can’t see the forest through the trees. If you had any brains at all you would see that Obummer has removed so many of your rights currently that if you remove the 2nd amendment it is the amendement that gives you the rest of the amendments, but let me guess you probably don’t even know the constitution or have any idea of our AMERICAN rights now do you?
        YOU just can’t fix STUPID now can YOU……………..

      • DaveH

        You’re too late, Flashshill. People will have already read the link and want to pick up a copy to see for themselves.
        Before they even read the book, Flashshill, they suspect you have no credibility. But after they read the book, they’ll know it.

    • Howard C

      Hey DaveH, have you noticed that this TROLL that calls himself ‘nc’ does not respond back when you call him on his BS? He understands that what he is saying is utter nonsense, yet he continues spewing it.

      • DaveH

        I think NC is a real person who is a heavily propagandized zealot. I doubt I can convince him of anything because he doesn’t want to believe it, but he isn’t confident enough to persist.

        Flashman, on the other hand, will continue persisting because he has a vested interest in disrupting the board.

  • Liberterian

    These people that clamour for more gun control as a means to end the violence are naive with their out of real world living. More crime and murders in this country are committed by knives, clubs and human hands rather than guns. The real underlying scam like Bob Livingston has shown is the future goal of taking guns away from Americans so that the fascists in our midst can control us. We have always been a violent nation of media created and glamourized heros.
    The criminals will get the weapons no matter how illegal they can be made. The drug war has proven this since drugs become so valuable that people are willing to die to sell them. The legislating mentality of more and more laws for every woe and violation of morality, have proven useless, why now would more legislation to end free gun ownership bring any different result.
    New York City and State have some of the strictest gun control laws however they still have murders and severe assaults by the numbers.
    You create gun free zones and you create sheep ranches, so that the wolves can feed upon the helpless, made that way by the ignorant and Feinstein that have no idea what goes on in the real world.
    I have been in law enforcement 37 years and have yet to see violence go down in any nature. More gun control is not a panecea that will solve all these moralistic gun control peoples rantings. There are already a myriad of laws lets enforce them. When you take away all the semi auto (not automatic) weapons what will you do next take away the single shots? An experienced person with a single shot can take down more than one person at a time. Remember the old lever action Winchester?
    Again Bob Livingston has it right. Someone needs to bring sense to insanity if only for an instant, before the naysayer’s disregard it with the total deception of the perceived immediate panaceas.

    • DaveH

      What is telling is that in Washington DC, the seat of the Federal Government, the murder rate in 2011 was 17.5 per 100,000.
      The next highest murder rate per state is claimed by Maryland at 6.8 per 100,000. Note that Maryland is number ranked #7 by the Brady Campaign for gun control among the States.

      So we have almost 3 times the number of murders committed in the Federal Government’s capital district where gun control is at its finest. Where is all that Protection that they claim they can give us? They can’t even police their very small district effectively.

      Note that the lowest murder rate is claimed by both Vermont and New Hampshire at 1.3 per 100,000.
      Vermont has Unrestricted Concealed Carry. Vermont and New Hampshire are both ranked 27th for Gun Control by the Brady Campaign.

      Utah, which is ranked 50th (the bottom) for Gun Control by the Brady Campaign has 1.9 murders per 100,000 or 1/9th the number of murders per 100,000 that the hotbed of Federal Government has.

      Clearly gun control does not work.

  • http://yahoo david

    this will be so easy to take care of. exclude all hospitals and armed forces
    start with the white house go on to michael moore he thinks we dont need no protection take his body guards to and just come on down the line in preferential order no problem.

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    If I had to put a name on where the powers that rule us are taking us, using the actions of a Satanic killer, I’d say fascism (privately owned / government controlled) leading to communism (government owned / government controlled). They will not admit Satan’s role but instead are concentrating on depriving American’s of their right to defend themselves. In my opinion we’re acting like fools even negotiating with them. The truth is obvious but it is obvious only to those that will listen, and that’s not to would be tyrants and their Ilk..

    LIBERTY is a gift from God to men living by moral rules. Moral is: God’s rules of action and interaction, not Satan’s. Because we have liberty, we form governments to enforce our liberties, not to deprive us of our liberties. Only an evil government tries to do that. I can envision Patrick Henry standing there musket in hand crying out “Give me liberty or give me death”.

    This nation is being divided to conquer. Now we call ourselves a Democracy. That’s a system of government where the majority imposes it’s will on the minority, with no moral restraint. There comes a time where amidst all the confusion and reacting to blows, you’ve got to take a step back, repent to God for our sinful stupities, and say NO to those who would put us in bondage. Does two and two equal four? If you enter into an agreement that has strings attached, only a fool would think they wouldn’t be. Look thru all the lies, deceit and propaganda your being fed. Your liberty is tied to a stake with a lot of branches under it and there’s a guy standing there holding a match. Considering the hour, read and believe John 3:16. As Ron Paul states, we’ve reached the point of no return.

    • GALT

      How absurd you are!!!!!!!

      What is an “unsecured” gift worth, or did you miss that little nuance regarding your
      “unalienable rights”?

  • GirlIQ

    It’s ironic, and telling, that our government through Fast and Furious, supplied 1000′s of guns to criminals in a country where guns are outlawed, law-abiding citizens are out-gunned and we are supposed to fall for gun restriction in the US enforced by the same government that set up, planned and executed Fast and Furious? Amazing!

  • mark

    “Whether the gun grabbers orchestrated the Sandy Hook Elementary School Massacre or…” Psychotic paranoia reaches new heights. How can anyone even take this website seriously anymore?

    • Buster the Anatolian

      It seems you deliberately and probably maliciously left off the rest of the sentence mark.

      “… or just saw it as the perfect opportunity to rip the heart out of yet another Constitutional amendment,”

    • JC

      How can anyone take YOU seriously mark?
      You’re incapable of forming any thoughts on your own…shouldn’t you be at
      HuffPo with the other progs?

  • http://HOME Hobert Davis

    I demand an end to car sales as they kill more people than guns,knives next and baseball bats too. HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL MY FELLOW GUN OWNERS.

    • mark

      Hobert, this is a classic logical fallacy that gun enthusiasts always make. Comparing cars and guns makes zero sense. Why? Because the overwhelmingly singular purpose of a car is to transport people and goods from one location to another. This is how cars are employed in 99.9999999% of the time when they are used. That is their sole purpose as machines. When they are employed to kill people this is an unfortunate accident that occurs a very tiny percentage of the time given their overall usage – and is completely unrelated to their purpose as machines.

      Guns, on the other hand, are designed specifically and solely to kill human beings and animals. That is their singular overwhelming purpose as machines. In the case of handguns, they are overwhelmingly designed to kill human beings. Non-military rifles and shotguns are, of course, used more often by hunters to kill animals rather than people. Therefore to compare guns and cars is idiotic. Another classic logical fallacy often used on this site goes along the line of the following: My wife is a vegetarian and she owns a German Shepherd. Hitler was a vegetarian and owned a German Shepherd. Therefore my wife is Hitler. These type of logical fallacies are employed all the time in barrooms, websites, and at political forums – and all they reveal is the fallacy and simple-mindedness of most people’s arguments.

      • CZ52

        And the fallacy and simple-mindedness of your arguments to disarm the American citizen shows every time you make that claim mark. There is NO guarentee of the right to automobile or any other kind of transportation in the constitution while there is the right to keep and bear arms guarenteed in it. Or more properly the statement that the government shall not infringe on our right to do so.

      • FreedomFighter

        Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.
        – Thomas Jefferson, 1764

        BS the above Mark, bet money you cant.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        mark: Guns, on the other hand, are designed specifically and solely to kill human beings and animals. That is their singular overwhelming purpose as machines.

        Regrettably, mark, as the result of their creation and original purpose, guns have acquired an extended purpose, that being; they offer protection from those who would use guns as per original purpose. Although, one could argue as to the original purpose for guns. Was is to to kill more efficiently, or was it to protect one self more effectively…? But i digress, the fact is, they are here, and they are here to stay. And rather then torture yourself with irrational fear of guns, you should instead limit your focus on they usefulness and effectiveness on combating crime, self-protection, sport(olympics)…fear of guns is an irrational fear, mark. A irrational fear found exclusively amongst control-freaks!

      • JC

        That’s a good though mark…
        And leads me to one of my own,

        All in favor of gun control!

        Raise your right hand straight out at a 45 degree angle with your palm down.
        Now…as you begin to march stiff legged in unison with the other progs…
        begin chanting “yes we can yes we can yes we can sieg heil seig heil….

        Keep practicing until Diane Feinstein herself come and pins an iron cross on you. ;-)

      • anonymous

        Mark, I hate tree huggers, so just clam it up…. Just because you and your wife are vegetarians and eat weeds doesn’t mean the rest of us do… We enjoy eating meat, whether we have to shoot it or buy it from the store is not relevant, so clam it up… I hate STUPID PEOPLE like YOU!

        • yaki534

          hOW THEY ARE KILLED MAKES NO DIFFERENCE.DEAD IS DEAD..

      • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

        Mark, your logic is sound. The practicality is NOT. I lived in a Central Am country for 2 yrs. They had a prog. called Dispistolazacion (gun control)complete with road blocks set up outside major cities backing up traffic for up to 2 mi., No-knock search warrants, No riding double on motorcycles???, etc. , etc. Yet while I was there for almost 2 yrs. I witnessed a running gun battle in the streets downtown of the capitol during daylight (bus. hrs.) with automatic fire where 6 innocent civilians died and 13 wounded by both criminals/leo’s. Also, the American ambassador gunned down in his car with this bodyguard in broad daylight, also in the middle of the city. Also, a public official walking his dog in the early am. with a police escort, when a car pulled off a drive by killing both the official and his dog (it happened right in front of my ofc.), etc., etc. This prog. had been in effect for over 3 yrs. when I was sent there. Now 40 some odd yrs. later, this country, Guatemala, has the same problems as it did then. And for all that time, the citizens are the ones being caught in the crossfire of LE vs. Criminals. You can still buy a completely auto fire sub machine gun anywhere in the country but hey, they sure got the firearms away from the legal citizens!!! And that, my fellow citizen, is how it would be here if somehow the libtards on the left get their way and disarm the population. So wake up and use your head, dude! IT WON’T WORK!!!

        • Joe America

          You’ve made an excellent point. Mexico has the toughest gun laws in the world, and the most gun violence in the new world. The average citizen doens’t have guns and only those with special permits have 22 caliber guns. However, the criminals are having a field day, particularly the drug cartels. Citizens, nothing, criminals everything, including those nasty fully automatic weapons, anti-tank and aircraft missles, you name it and they’ve got it. Oh! They have aircraft and subs and they’re buying weapons of mass destruction. This is what happens when you take weapons from law abiding citizens. However, like I’ve said in the past, our weapons will be taken, simply because of all the morons we have in this nation who don’t know the difference between tryanny and freedom.

  • Bill

    All this bill will do is increase crime and take away the law abiding publics ability to defend themselves

    Wise up people, this is not about your safety, it is about your control

    • anonymous

      What do you know, someone who has some sense on this site. Way to go Bill…

  • DaveH

    Those people, who are really deluded enough to think the gun control push by Obama and cohorts is for the sake of the children, need to watch this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvOU-czQnl8

  • Capitalist at Birth.

    This article has stirred up a hornets nest. For those of you who know why the Second Amendment was put in the bill of rights, my congratulations to you. For those of you who don’t, I will contribute as much as I can to a fund to buy you a one way ticket to Russia, Cuba, or any current truly Totalitarian state of your choice. Get the hell out of our country. We will take it back, be forewarned, to prevent any future health problems that could result in your death.

    • Norm

      If you think you and an armed band of misfits could fight the US armed forces you’re living in a land of fantasy.

      • Dennis48e

        Just like it only took a couple of years for our overwhelming military might to overwhelm and totaly defeat the N. Vietnamese or totaly eliminate the Taliban in Afganistan.

      • DaveH

        What makes you think they’ll be fighting on your side, Norm?

  • Norm

    It seems to me that size and function of a man’s penis is inversely proportional to his obsession with assault weapons.
    Just a thought.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

      And your inadequate level of intellect is inversely proportional to your obsession with ignorance? Just a thought.

    • Dennis48e

      And your penis fixation is an obvious sign of envy. By the way how many have you measured to come to that idiotic conclusion.

      • Norm

        Only my own.
        Owning military weapons does nothing for me. I get plenty of satisfaction from OTHER interests.
        .

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        So why attack/criticize to “interests” of others, Norm?

      • momo

        Careful Norm, you’ll go blind doing that.

      • phideaux

        momo, He probably has to shave his palms two or more times a day.

    • DaveH

      Norm says — “It seems to me that size and function of a man’s penis is inversely proportional to his obsession with assault weapons”.
      About the same size as your brain, Norm.
      In spite of overwhelming evidence that Gun Control is only good for Leaders, you ignorant Liberal Progressives still hang onto your faith-based emotionally-charged fear of guns. Some day you or your children will regret that lack of logic:
      http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

      • Norm

        Oh Davy you will never change!
        Go back to your log cabin in the woods with your automatic weapons and biased right wing anarchist literature. Pray for that impossible day when the US government evaporates and we return to the 18th century.

        • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

          Wow! Just like a godless libtard to interject a man’s penis into a conversation about weapons and politics. So, Norm, ya’ been going down on any big guns lately??? Or you been faithful to your boyfriend, Harry? Go ahead, you can tell us. Harry will never find out cuz we know he can’t read much less, work a computer.

      • Norm

        rocquedog
        Just the mention of the word penis sends you into homosexual fantasy land. Is there something you want to tell us about your secret little thoughts and wants?

        • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

          Your the one who brought it up sissy boy! But once again, we see how the libtards play, trying to turn things around just like they do with the Race Card, the Gay lick card, etc. (keep talkin’ sissy! Your self indulgence into the sique world of faggotry is quite revealing into the mind of a narcissistic psychotic).

          • Joe America

            We have three major gun stores in our area and all their shelves were nearly stripped of guns and ammo. I’ve never seen anything like it, in my life. People are afraid that their 2nd ammendment rights are going to be taken away, and they’re right. They are going to be taken away. So, take heart liberals/Democrats, it will happen. You will get your wish. That being said, be careful what you wish for, because when you do get it, your nation may become Mexico. Because, then, the only people with guns will be government oppressors and criminals, and it will be so bad that you won’t be able to tell who is who. All you’ll know is that someone with a fully automatic weapon will be kicking down your door and taking you and your family away to a concentration camp. There, you will be separated from your family. The elderly that can’t work, will be killed immediately. Wives will be separated from husbands and children separate from parents. They’ll be a sign over the top of the camp entrance “Work Will Make You Free!” Yes, my little babies, be careful what you wish for.

          • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

            The bleed too dont they???

      • JC

        Note Norm’s fixation on “penis” and how he tries to reference that to firearms…this is typical of the left’s fixation on “pop psychology”. It is also another example of the left “projecting” their thoughts as being from other people. Nope, the whole thing is entirely in the left leaning sandbox. They’ve got nothing substantial to say.
        And these guys, like most Progs, are nothing more than Pseudo Intellectuals who like to sit around Starbuck’s in their Dolce Gabana’s and congratulate each other on how smart they are….useless idiots all around.

  • rick

    Yes its about control and loss of freedom its not the only way theyre doing it either alledged domesic asault will get everything you own stolen from you including guns and second amendment gunrights for life based on an accusation alone all before the fair trial never received

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Robbing the people of their ability to defend themselves, if necessary from their own government is what the 2nd Amendment is all about. Labeling gun owners with a Satanic killer is what the communist rule book teaches. Brand your enemies with things and people the people find repugnant. In this case, I find law abiding gun owners to be the good guys and their enemies worse than repugnant. Sure we’ve got Satanic killers and it’s up to the gun community to weed them out. On ratio we’re the most moral people in the world. It has been said: THE BEST DEFENSE IS A STRONG OFFENSE. Why are the gun owners spokesmen taking a defensive posture? We’re in America aren’t we? Ever ready the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE? Is it being revised or are we acting like the people who marched into box cars? That great lying deceitful socialist Lyndon Baines Johnson said: Come let us reason together. Let the two of us become one. Reason together? That’s the words the serpent said to mouse.

  • Norm

    Connecticut has more restrictions on gun ownership than most states, so gun-rights advocates argue the Dec. 14 schoolhouse massacre there illustrates the futility of gun control.
    But a new study by a San Francisco organization reaches the opposite conclusion: States with the most restrictive laws, including Connecticut and California, have lower rates of gun-related deaths, while states with few limits on firearms have the highest rates.
    In 2009 and 2010, the most recent years for which information is available, California had the nation’s strongest gun controls and the ninth-lowest rate of gun deaths, according to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, which favors firearms regulation.
    Connecticut had the fourth-strongest gun laws and was sixth-lowest in gun deaths, while Hawaii ranked fifth in gun control and had the lowest death rate.
    At the other end of the scale, the report found that Alaska, Louisiana and Montana – all graded F for gun control – had the highest rates of deaths caused by gunfire, more than double California’s rate. The law center graded all 50 states and gave an F, for weak regulation, to 24 of them.

    • DaveH

      Norm says — “But a new study by a San Francisco organization reaches the opposite conclusion: States with the most restrictive laws, including Connecticut and California, have lower rates of gun-related deaths, while states with few limits on firearms have the highest rates”.
      Notice how the equivocating Liberal Progressives always try to frame the issue as a matter of “gun-related deaths”? For instance if there were no guns, there would be no gun-related deaths. But do you really care if you’re killed by a gun or a sword or by some other means (oftentimes much more gruesome)? The whole point of defending yourself with a gun is to prevent the occurrence of your death.
      See here to do your own investigations:
      http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/

      Rate of murder in Connecticut (ranked 6th for gun control by Brady Campaign) — 3.6 per 100,000.
      Rate of murder in Vermont (Unrestricted Concealed Carry) — 1.3 per 100,000.

      Rate of murder in California (ranked 1st for gun control by Brady Campaign) — 4.8 per 100,000.
      Rate of murder in Utah (ranked 50th for gun control by Brady Campaign) — 1.9 per 100,000.

    • TIME

      Dear Norm,

      Saddly there is “ZERO” ~ evidence / proof that anyone was killed at the Sandy Hook school, Afterall all the pictures on the Mind Glow Tube were at the Sandy Hook Fire department. {where all the Emergency trucks were all blocked in.}

      But if you still think it really happened ~ perhaps you should invest in a ticket up there to do your own due diligence. Thus far countless thousands who have done just that, have come to the same results over and over again. It was all 100% Faked

      *** {What they have found is that the alledged persons who were interviewed on the MIND GLOW TUBE, ” don’t exist as residents of the area, nor even the state.}”

      Peace and Love Shalom

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        TIME: Sadly there is “ZERO” ~ evidence / proof that anyone was killed at the Sandy Hook school…

        Strange, isn’t it, TIME. That no follow-up or mention of funeral-services for the children or the adults (killed)?

      • Karolyn

        Uh, Jay, the funeral services were shown on the news, as well as a motorcycle group who made a line to keep those crazies from that Westboro Baptist Church from disrupting the ceremonies.

      • Karolyn

        That is totally ridiculous. You’re saying, in essence, that the whole town was in on it! Hey! Maybe it’s not even a real town. All the people that went to the funerals and made the memorials were actors. All the people who posted online that their relatives were affected were also fakes. Every single law enforcement person is fake or paid off. Give me a break!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Yeah, five minutes of coverage, Karolyn, and then straight back to their obsession with “gun-control”! It almost brought tears to my eyes…!

      • Norm

        I live not far from Newtown, and in fact drove through it’s main street on my journey to work for many years. Newtown is a nice quiet village, like those found in much of Connecticut, and the people are truly honest, friendly and educated.
        To suggest that this whole incident was a hoax is really bazaar and shows a level of paranoia that is in need of some professional evaluation.
        These deaths were indeed real and very sad. Would banning assault weapons have prevented the atrocity? I really don’t know, but I think that tighter controls on their ownership certainly would be a positive step.

  • Charlie R

    This time the democrats may succeed in accomplishing two things :
    1: Registration of all guns and owners …. Thats what Hitler did in the 1930′s
    2: Confiscation of private property. (i.e. non transferable)

    Eventually Feinstein’s legislation will apply to ALL FIREARMS and CITIZENS.( Terrorists and criminals exempted)

    Liberal democrats are never happy unless they can tell (and legislate) how everyone is to live. Americans are being totally screwed by liberals. The sad part is , those voting for democrat politicians have no idea of the tyranny that has and is about to be unleashed under the Obama administration.

    • cawmun cents

      We will just have to agree to disagree on that last staement about the politicians being ignorant or not knowing.
      These people are Democratic Socialists,and card carrying memebers of the communist party,in both parties of our government.
      They are readying you for the situation that is about to occur.
      The one where people start vying for the resources of the world.
      Our beloved politicians would rather that instead of you living as you have under freedom,that you live under socialist domination so they can avoid the giant holocaust that comes when folks want to redistribute your nations wealth to theirs.
      It is a simple equation.
      They are setting out to appease,as did Chamberlain,and the rest of the euro-centric leaders of pre WW2 world politics.The Chinese are fomenting war with Japan.
      The Iranians are struggling to achieve nuclear domination in an alreadu unstable middle east.
      What part of the horrors to come cannot you people(with their heads stuck neatly in the sand like and ostrich)understand?
      Even if you ignore the signs,and place head deftly between legs and prepare for meltdown,you can still get your asses handed to you.
      Didnt any of you simpletons read any of your history books?
      You are headed for a scatstorm of biblical proprtions and you are acting as if it will never happen….
      Who you see as delusional,are those who are patently aware of this global crisis,yet you all prefer to live your lives in a dream and ignore the obvious that leads to oblivion.
      You think that you can escape the coming judgement by making rational arguments in your own minds about the valididty of the world crisis?
      Yet you seek to point the finger of contempt at those who seek to be prepared for it and tell them they are wrong?
      Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand,just like the political leaders which take you by the hand and lead you along like the Pied Piper,saying,”Come along my little rats,come to your destruction by listening to what I have prepared for you!”
      Cheers!
      -CC.

      • Charlie R

        CC:
        Interesting reply and I don’t see us a being far apart. Apparently we have both seen the horrors governments gone bad. Going Bad is in the nature of big government and thus I do not favor a big intrusive federal government. Your reference to Chamberlin is especially important because it points to the dangers of progressive thinking.

        in more than 65 years of observing and analyzing current events, politics (now very independent voter) the Dems (Feinstein et. al.) were singled out because in my view, and by their own admission, there are the ones who always lead the way on “social progress” which is basically results telling others how to live. ( Obamas version is “social justice”)

        This applies not only to firearms control but to every aspect of life …. OBAMACARE is the current shining example. Go back in our history and there are many, many more. No matter what subject, the dems/ progressives/ liberals lead the way to socialism thus shredding the constitution. “IT” is their genes. “IT” being “new and better ways” of doing things, which always result in new laws restricting freedoms, personal choice and always higher taxes. Republican’s are not exempt from this commentary … they are followers not eloquent (in the vernacular) to motivate the masses. Face it, the Dems are in a position now to give America the “ONE PARTY SYSTEM” as we have seen historically in other BIG GOVERNMENT’S.

        “Never let a crisis go to waste ” … even if it has to be created…. (as Hitler did).
        That is exactly how BiG GOVERNMENT dominate the populace.

        Have a Happy and Safe new year.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Look, it’s Republicrats, not Democrats. The Republicans are the ones pushing the governments right to warrantless searches and unending prison termsm not the democrats. No longer can we side with one party. Today it’s the people against the district of criminals.

  • cawmun cents

    (AT) Read this woman’s eyewitness account of the loss of freedom in her native Austria:

    ——————————————-

    December 22, 2012 – “What I am about to tell you is something you’ve probably never heard or read in history books,” she likes to tell audiences.

    “I am a witness to history.

    “I cannot tell you that Hitler took Austria by tanks and guns; it would distort history.

    If you remember the plot of the Sound of Music, the Von Trapp family escaped over the Alps rather than submit to the Nazis. Kitty wasn’t so lucky. Her family chose to stay in her native Austria. She was 10 years old, but bright and aware. And she was watching.

    “We elected him by a landslide – 98 percent of the vote,” she recalls.

    She wasn’t old enough to vote in 1938 – approaching her 11th birthday. But she remembers.

    “Everyone thinks that Hitler just rolled in with his tanks and took Austria by force.”

    No so.

    Hitler is welcomed to Austria

    “In 1938, Austria was in deep Depression. Nearly one-third of our workforce was unemployed. We had 25 percent inflation and 25 percent bank loan interest rates.

    Farmers and business people were declaring bankruptcy daily. Young people were going from house to house begging for food. Not that they didn’t want to work; there simply weren’t any jobs.

    “My mother was a Christian woman and believed in helping people in need. Every day we cooked a big kettle of soup and baked bread to feed those poor, hungry people – about 30 daily.’

    “We looked to our neighbor on the north, Germany, where Hitler had been in power since 1933.” she recalls. “We had been told that they didn’t have unemployment or crime, and they had a high standard of living.

    “Nothing was ever said about persecution of any group – Jewish or otherwise. We were led to believe that everyone in Germany was happy. We wanted the same way of life in Austria. We were promised that a vote for Hitler would mean the end of unemployment and help for the family. Hitler also said that businesses would be assisted, and farmers would get their farms back.

    “Ninety-eight percent of the population voted to annex Austria to Germany and have Hitler for our ruler.

    “We were overjoyed,” remembers Kitty, “and for three days we danced in the streets and had candlelight parades. The new government opened up big field kitchens and
    everyone was fed.

    “After the election, German officials were appointed, and, like a miracle, we suddenly had law and order. Three or four weeks later, everyone was employed. The government made sure that a lot of work was created through the Public Work Service.

    “Hitler decided we should have equal rights for women. Before this, it was a custom that married Austrian women did not work outside the home. An able-bodied husband would be looked down on if he couldn’t support his family. Many women in the teaching profession were elated that they could retain the jobs they previously had been re- quired to give up for marriage.

    “Then we lost religious education for kids

    “Our education was nationalized. I attended a very good public school.. The population was predominantly Catholic, so we had religion in our schools. The day we elected Hitler (March 13, 1938), I walked into my schoolroom to find the crucifix replaced by Hitler’s picture hanging next to a Nazi flag. Our teacher, a very devout woman, stood up and told the class we wouldn’t pray or have religion anymore. Instead, we sang ‘Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles,’ and had physical education.

    “Sunday became National Youth Day with compulsory attendance. Parents were not pleased about the sudden change in curriculum. They were told that if they did not send us, they would receive a stiff letter of warning the first time. The second time they would be fined the equivalent of $300, and the third time they would be subject to jail.”

    And then things got worse.

    “The first two hours consisted of political indoctrination. The rest of the day we had sports. As time went along, we loved it. Oh, we had so much fun and got our sports equipment free.

    “We would go home and gleefully tell our parents about the wonderful time we had.

    “My mother was very unhappy,” remembers Kitty. “When the next term started, she took me out of public school and put me in a convent. I told her she couldn’t do that and she told me that someday when I grew up, I would be grateful. There was a very good curriculum, but hardly any fun – no sports, and no political indoctrination.

    “I hated it at first but felt I could tolerate it. Every once in a while, on holidays, I went home. I would go back to my old friends and ask what was going on and what they were doing.

    “Their loose lifestyle was very alarming to me. They lived without religion. By that time, unwed mothers were glorified for having a baby for Hitler.

    “It seemed strange to me that our society changed so suddenly. As time went along, I realized what a great deed my mother did so that I wasn’t exposed to that kind of humanistic philosophy.

    “In 1939, the war started, and a food bank was established. All food was rationed and could only be purchased using food stamps. At the same time, a full-employment law was passed which meant if you didn’t work, you didn’t get a ration card, and, if you didn’t have a card, you starved to death.

    “Women who stayed home to raise their families didn’t have any marketable skills and often had to take jobs more suited for men.

    “Soon after this, the draft was implemented.

    “It was compulsory for young people, male and female, to give one year to the labor corps,” remembers Kitty. “During the day, the girls worked on the farms, and at night they returned to their barracks for military training just like the boys.

    “They were trained to be anti-aircraft gunners and participated in the signal corps. After the labor corps, they were not discharged but were used in the front lines.

    “When I go back to Austria to visit my family and friends, most of these women are emotional cripples because they just were not equipped to handle the horrors of combat.

    “Three months before I turned 18, I was severely injured in an air raid attack. I nearly had a leg amputated, so I was spared having to go into the labor corps and into military service.

    “When the mothers had to go out into the work force, the government immediately established child care centers.

    “You could take your children ages four weeks old to school age and leave them there around-the-clock, seven days a week, under the total care of the government.

    “The state raised a whole generation of children. There were no motherly women to take care of the children, just people highly trained in child psychology. By this time, no one talked about equal rights. We knew we had been had.

    “Before Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors trained at the University of Vienna..

    “After Hitler, health care was socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government. The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors for everything.

    “When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40 people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were full.

    “If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into socialized medicine. Research at the medical schools literally stopped, so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries.

    “As for healthcare, our tax rates went up to 80 percent of our income. Newlyweds immediately received a $1,000 loan from the government to establish a household. We had big programs for families.

    “All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.

    “We had another agency designed to monitor business. My brother-in-law owned a restaurant that had square tables.

    “Government officials told him he had to replace them with round tables because people might bump themselves on the corners. Then they said he had to have additional bathroom facilities. It was just a small dairy business with a snack bar. He couldn’t meet all the demands.

    “Soon, he went out of business. If the government owned the large businesses and not many small ones existed, it could be in control.

    “We had consumer protection, too

    “We were told how to shop and what to buy. Free enterprise was essentially abolished. We had a planning agency specially designed for farmers. The agents would go to the farms, count the livestock, and then tell the farmers what to produce, and how to produce it.

    “In 1944, I was a student teacher in a small village in the Alps. The villagers were surrounded by mountain passes which, in the winter, were closed off with snow, causing people to be isolated.

    “So people intermarried and offspring were sometimes retarded. When I arrived, I was told there were 15 mentally retarded adults, but they were all useful and did good manual work.

    “I knew one, named Vincent, very well. He was a janitor of the school. One day I looked out the window and saw Vincent and others getting into a van.

    “I asked my superior where they were going. She said to an institution where the State Health Department would teach them a trade, and to read and write. The families were required to sign papers with a little clause that they could not visit for 6 months.

    “They were told visits would interfere with the program and might cause homesickness.

    “As time passed, letters started to dribble back saying these people died a natural, merciful death. The villagers were not fooled. We suspected what was happening. Those people left in excellent physical health and all died within 6 months. We called this euthanasia.

    “Next came gun registration. People were getting injured by guns. Hitler said that the real way to catch criminals (we still had a few) was by matching serial numbers on guns. Most citizens were law-abiding and dutifully marched to the police station to register their firearms. Not long afterwards, the police said that it was best for everyone to turn in their guns. The authorities already knew who had them, so it was futile not to comply voluntarily.

    “No more freedom of speech. Anyone who said something against the government was taken away. We knew many people who were arrested, not only Jews, but also priests and ministers who spoke up.

    “Totalitarianism didn’t come quickly, it took 5 years from 1938 until 1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria. Had it happened overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead, we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles. The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by little eroded our freedom.”

    “This is my eyewitness account.

    “It’s true. Those of us who sailed past the Statue of Liberty came to a country of unbelievable freedom and opportunity.

    “America is truly is the greatest country in the world. “Don’t let freedom slip away.

    “After America, there is no place to go.”

    • FreedomFighter

      “Next came gun registration. People were getting injured by guns. Hitler said that the real way to catch criminals (we still had a few) was by matching serial numbers on guns. Most citizens were law-abiding and dutifully marched to the police station to register their firearms. Not long afterwards, the police said that it was best for everyone to turn in their guns. The authorities already knew who had them, so it was futile not to comply voluntarily.

      “No more freedom of speech. Anyone who said something against the government was taken away.

      Coming to America – via Nazi Fienstien (yes I know she is a jew, makes it even worse, sho of all people should know better)

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

  • brand inspector

    Since the socialist communist democrat party was formedthe illegimate spawn are always taking our freedoms and private property any was they can, lgally of spme dreamed up BS reg. FDR conficated all privately owned gold, Hillary and O Numnutts want everyone to hand over their money wheather a pay check, or earned income, and some paper brained smuck will determine what you need.. Between all the pedophile worshipping, rug rubbering, family abusing perverts, or any muslim group gets a free pass on not abiding by our laws, the Black Panthers who threatened voters while armed, the Att. General must have bought into the pedophile worshipping BS while defending the diaper headed terrorists. The soldier who killed some Afganisans killed some people over there, after 3 tourss. There isn’t prosecution of the mudlim who killed our troop at the Fort Hood after 3+ years. Where as a solder in Afganistan iS being prosequited in 9 month with the chance of the death the pentalty. But the soldier is white not a damn worthless ant USA nut job and maybe a soul brother of the jugeared one.

  • FreedomFighter

    BTW Obama is now sending the US Military to invade 30 african countries/subregions, where are the liberals talking about this war monger Obummer?

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • RT

    Let them try and take my weapons. Civil War Part 2 anyone???

  • Mike

    Well, I don’t hear anyone wanting to Ban airlines or aircraft transportation, just because a couple thousand people were targeted by terrorist (supposedly, though it looks more like the CIA was involved) Aircraft don’t kill a few people at a time they usually kill a couple hundred at a time when they crash. Yet there is no one calling for a Ban on them.
    The govt. gave out shots for mendengitis and it killed 39 people, the war in vietnam killed over 54,000 american troops, now we have a war in Iraq, and Afganistan that several thousand troops have been killed Yet no one has called for a Ban on the Goverment or on War.
    Why are the Liberals wanting to Have a Ban on guns? Simple, to disarm the American people. It is all part of the implementation of the New World Order. Disarm the public so they can’t resist what the NWO has in store for them. The people are just a “Human Resource” to them. The people are to be used as slaves in the work force everyone under age 65 will have to work for the Goverment of the NWO (forced labor and little pay). You will not be able to do anything without permission from the Goverment. Resist and you will end up in a FEMA prison for re-education. Just like in Nazi Germany only world wide. The people behind this are known as the “Shadow Goverment” they are a group made up of the Bilderberg group, the Tri-Lateral Commission, Council on Foreign Affairs and the U.N.. They pull the strings that control the Banks & Economy, the President, the Military, the CIA (who has been manipulating all the Arab countries to fight), and all the Media.
    You will say I am paranoid, crazy, or some other derogatory term. Thats okay. Just do your homework & research it, and find out for yourself about the truth.

    • nc

      Mike or Elton or who the He(( ever you are, I have not heard one Liberal leader say they wanted to ban or even confiscate all guns NOW IN THE POSSESSION OF OUR CITIZENS! Even if we wanted to it IS KNOWN THAT IS AS IMPOSSIBLE AS ROUNDING UP ALL 13 MILLION ILLEGALS AT ONE TIME!
      If the liberals in government can’t take ALL of the guns then they can’t DISARM the American people !Right ??? If you don’t see the killing of our school children and other citizens in large numbers with rapid fire weapons is something that needs the attention of our leaders then you are excused from the discussions! Just like I WAS TAUGHT IN HE MARINES!! There IS ALWAYS 10% THAT NEVER GETS THE WORD of what is being said to them.
      It would appear from you posts that you are as dedicated to the word of the NRA as any political party! If you need weapons to enforce your message in a civilized country you have a Pi$$ poor message!!In fact I believe that the need for the early militias was to make sure no armed group of citizens could take over the government except by the means set forth in the Constitution! Otherwise why have a Constitution??

  • Elton

    Is there no limit to nc’s ignorance??????

    • nc

      Elton, I have backed a party that has provided very significant leadership to our becoming the number one nation in the world! It was not automatic that it would happen but the Democrat party helped greatly in making! it happen! Are you a Republican? Would you care to debate the contributions of each party to our making it to the top?? Or are you of a different group who have lead us? Pray tell when that was????? Before the civil war???

      Lets see what kind of picture your superior intelligence can paint for the group you favor!!

      REMEMBER!!! THERE ARE ADULT INDEPENDENTS WATCHING YOUR ANSWERS!

      • Mike

        nc, No I am not a republican, democrat, liberal or any other stupid party. I don’t believe in any party, I believe in qualifications. I am an American citizen who has no faith in the goverment due to the greed and power hunger of man. No, I do not care to debate anything with you, you are entitled to your opinion, and that’s good enough. All I was trying to emphasize was to do your research about what is going on, Know the truth, don’t just rely of your belief or emotions. Discussion closed.

      • DaveH

        NC says — “Elton, I have backed a party that has provided very significant leadership to our becoming the number one nation in the world!”

        I say, NC, that you have backed a party which has prevented us from having prosperity like no other country has ever had. How could the Big Government, which you idolize NC, possibly be helping us by spending 41% of our money? It is a Big Government that is known for it’s many failures — Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the Post Office, Medicare, Healthcare, Amtrak, Solyndra, etc. etc. etc.
        Why would any educated or intelligent person (unless feeding at the trough) think that Government could possibly spend our money better than we could with voluntary trading in a Free Market?
        Believing that Big Government has brought us Prosperity is neither Logical nor Experiential. But first you need to do some actual study to learn those realities. It takes time and work to study. It’s much easier to fly by the seat of your pants and base your thinking on emotions, isn’t it, NC?
        Here’s one place for intelligent and curious people to start:
        http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/Americas%20Great%20Depression.pdf

        Those who don’t want to slog through some heavy economic theory should just skip to Part 2 “The Inflationary Boom: 1921–1929″.

    • nc

      Elton, are you also Mike? Why two names? Are you ashamed of some of your posts? I have a degree in history and have had a graduate level course in Constitutional Law! Made an A! Really proud of that grade! One of the few “A”s I made in graduate school! No Ds or Fs but a load of Cs and Bs!! More Cs than Bs.!!
      If this is the place where you do your research I hope it is in mental illness! These people are digging holes in the desert and practicing shooting their neighbors over things that are not happening in my part of the country!

      • Mike

        I don’t know who Elton is nor do i care who he is. The information I gave is all over the internet if you search for it. Nor do I care what courses or grades you made while in school. I am not impressed. All though it’s obvious you never learned about freewill, freedom and free thinking and being open minded. Just Constitutional Law by the book, History as you should have learned, usually repeats it self. So are you trying to make up for another deficiency by bragging about what you accomplished while in school or what? Not that I really care, but it sounded like you were patting yourself on the back.

      • DaveH

        A history degree? It figures. What part of Propaganda do you not understand, NC?

        For those who would like to learn some real history, not that Propaganda received from Court Historians:
        http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/Conceived%20in%20Liberty_Vol_2.pdf

        This book is very long but it gets to the nitty-gritty of the discovery and growth of our country up to the Revolution. Methinks that NC, even though claiming to be a history major, will not dare read this book, for fear of having his fragile framework destroyed.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        DaveH says, “It’s much easier to fly by the seat of your pants and base your thinking on emotions, isn’t it, NC?” Lord love a duck, Dave! You are the PLD expert on “basing thinking on emotions and flying by the seat of your pants”. And you insist upon piling up those mises references and sitting on them so you can see over the dashboard (but how do you reach the pedals?)

        I am SO tired of Dave’s endless touting of the name of Murray Rothbard, a man who has been dead for nearly 20 years and was out of date in many ways when he was alive, never mind today. Libertarianism IS appealing in some respects, but is just a romantic dream in terms of its relevancy as an overall governing philosophy in the modern world.

        Dave says, “Here’s one place for intelligent and curious people to start” and directs us to a book written 50 YEARS AGO?, and then tells us to read only 80 pages of it rather than the whole thing? Yep, sounds like “DaveH Research 101″ in action—-look at just part of a picture—-then distort, misuse, and misinterpret it as you attempt to propagandize folks..

        (In an aside, nc says, “I have a degree in history and have had a graduate level course in Constitutional Law!”. Bad move, nc—–giving credentials does NOT endear one to those like Dave who have none—-it makes them even less likely to try to understand what you say—-some advice—-let the power of your arguments speak for you.)

        DaveH again tells us to consult that “1568 pages in four volumes” tome by Rothbard that he has recommended before and that I took him to task over.

        Dave says, “This book is very long but it gets to the nitty-gritty of the discovery and growth of our country up to the Revolution”. At least he admits that it is “very long” this time. I wonder what in the H*** he is talking about when he says “nitty gritty” and why he thinks we need to go back to the “discovery and growth” in pre-revolutionary times to understand what is going on in 2013? (Or does “nitty-gritty” refer to something that Pocahontas and John Smith engaged in? THAT might prove interesting).

        In closing, I hate to be the one to break the news to you Dave, but you are the one who needs to “fear having your fragile framework of self-delusion destroyed”. Remember, the truth is coming to get you!—HA–HA–HA—-you can’t hide from it forever.

      • DaveH

        Lizard Brain says — ……..one very long personal attack…..

        And this guy was a school administrator? It figures.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        DaveH says, ” ……..one very long personal attack…..”
        “And this guy was a school administrator? It figures”.

        Yep, it sure does “figure” that guys like me “stood the wall” in the schools 30 and 40 years ago to protect them from guys like you. I helped to fire more than a couple like you in my time, and had others like you arrested and taken out of the building in cuffs. If you had been a staff member, parent, or student at my school, that’s likely what would have happened to you at one point. We were less tolerant back then—-people with aberrant personalities and deficient mentalities were not allowed to disrupt the operation of the schools the way you have been allowed to pollute the discourse on PLD. The right to free speech does not include the right to shout “fire” in a crowded theater, which is just about all you do here in a figurative sense.

        And ” …one very long personal attack..”? Lord love a DUCK, Dave. That’s laughable coming from you—-YOU are one long walking and talking “personal attack” on the sanity of everyone who visits this site.

    • Paul Wells

      In a word, Elton…NO! There is no end to n(ever) c(orrect)’s idiocy!

  • DaveH

    By taking peoples’ weapons away the Gun Grabbers are making people helpless against predators of all kinds. That includes Government predators.
    The Gun Grabbers are accessories to all of the murders that could have been prevented with some self-protection.

    • nc

      DaveH, tonight at midnight in a small town near me dozens of men and women will begin a 150 year custom of shooting the “arms” ( muskets) of the 2nd amendment that have been in some of the families for longer than that! NEVER HAS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT EVER COME TO TOWN TO SEIZE THEM! EVEN DURING THE CIVIL WAR! IF I remember my history correctly the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT allowed the southern survivors to keep them even after they were defeated in that war.

      You use the term ” gun grabbers” as if it is a part of our history instead of a month old faux noise type bumper sticker term. It has no record in our history and only your paranoia makes it an issue today! I’m really surprised that you back these idiots claiming that the government is going to take their weapons since you have shown some indications that you can read! Any one who can read should know there has been no recorded evidence that such activity has ever occurred or planned for! Counseling and medication might help you with your delusional condition!

      • DaveH

        Maybe you could send me some of your medication, NC. It must be some powerful stuff.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Scanning the thread this AM to see what may be under discussion. Came across a comment from nc that showed some intelligence. Saw DaveH’s reply. Once again not impressed by DaveH’s ability (or lack thereof) to say anything meaningful as he clutters up the discussion.

        I WILL compliment Dave, however, on his recognizing that he may need some medication (and “powerful” medication at that). Recognizing that you have a problem is the first step on the road to recovery, Dave. I suggested that you needed help many weeks ago—-glad to see that you may be accepting that idea.

  • Right Brain Thinker

    I have been somewhat dismayed to see the return of a “wild and angry” WTS/JAY to the thread today. I have not missed the WTS(JAY) that we saw back on the thread about global warming—-if you recall, the one where JAY was on his “CO2 is good for us” horsepucky tirade? Jay seemed to have calmed down and was making sense in many of his comments recently (ignoring those in which he was deliberately throwing gasoline on the fires to see if anyone was paying attention).

    On this thread alone, JAY has regaled us today with the following comments about other posters—-
    “clinically insane”
    “sick uninformed mind”
    “complete retard”
    “insane-rantings”
    “back in your cage”
    “did you wake up stupid?”
    “inadequate level of intellect”
    —–and the word SHILL used many times in many contexts.

    All topped by this one——”Obama and his NAZI ghouls”

    Finally, WTS/JAY said at 9:13 am—-

    “…..there are no limits to what a “SHILL” will say and do for his pay, including committing intellectual and spiritual suicide!”

    Is that what you’re doing, JAY?—–being a shill and committing intellectual and spiritual suicide right before our eyes? PLEASE—-don’t do it!—–I will pay attention to you even when the others don’t—-I care!

    • FreedomFighter

      He missed ===== Complainer

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

      It appears you are much too sensitive, RBT! If my comments traumatize you so, i suggest you ignore them. Far be it from me to live with the fact that my comments pushed some overly, sensitive-ninny over the edge!

    • Right Brain Thinker

      FreedomFighter says, “He missed ===== Complainer”

      Pay attention, Marine—-i didn’t say “complainer” in my list because JAY didn’t use it. Unless I missed it—-if so, please point it out to me.
      Semper Fi and OOH-Rah to you too.

      WTS/JAY says, “It appears you are much too sensitive, RBT! If my comments traumatize you so, i suggest you ignore them. Far be it from me to live with the fact that my comments pushed some overly, sensitive-ninny over the edge!”

      Ah, the old Wake The Sleepers (JAY) is back in his most nettlesome persona. Perhaps JAY has inhaled too much of that CO2 that he lied to us about being SOOOOO GOOD for all living things. Has that interfered with his mental processes and somehow altered his personality? LOL at JAY’s thinking he is “pushing some overly sensitive ninny over the edge”. And I thought we had made some progress and were actually communicating with each other—-my mistake, apparently.

      Let’s cut to the chase and I’ll ask AGAIN right up front—-save us some time. Are you being the “old” WTS/JAY because your shill paymasters demand it? Do you and DaveH take turns being lead shill? (As in “Shill of the week”? Do you have a reserved parking space with that posted over it?). Come clean—-there must be a reason for your committing intellectual and moral suicide in public like this.

    • JeffH

      Well, well…it’s that half brain thinking nitwit RBT. Yeah, the progressive shill that get’s his jollies keeping tabs, keeping score on the rest of us. Hope they pay you enough for your scorekeeping. Are you gonna’ start complainin’ ’bout the bad grammar and spelling too? Might be some extra credits added to your pay envelope…or do you just get a flat daily rate?

    • DaveH

      Lizard Brain mounts another long tirade of personal attack.

      Do you ever have anything intelligent to say, LB?

  • James

    You are exactly right Dave H and the people that shouldn’t have guns will be the ones that will have them or get them. This is just another way of taking freedom from the people!

  • Bimbam

    Why we must fight?

    I have a theory and I think it’s true. I have been mulling over what a liberal is and why they do what they do.

    It may sound sophomoric and trite but I think it has to do with “spoilt-child” syndrome and I’m not kidding.

    They actually want a revolution, they actually want a beating! You see, if you look at most liberals they had life easy, too easy. Everything was handed to them, most hardly worked hard at all.

    They cannot believe what is so easily lauded on them while the rest of us trudge through life. Honor, riches, come so easy so they develop a certain guilt. A guilt that makes them wonder why they have not been punished like the rest of us.

    So they do the most outrageous things. Things that people like you and me cannot understand the eventual SELF-DESTRUCTIVE behavior they want to give everyone. They actually want you to give them a beating so much that they impose this behavior on the rest of us. The more the merrier.

    A read somewhere once that teenagers said they actually wanted their parents to discipline them when they went awry. Thus the outrageous behavior. The proof of love was needed in the discipline.

    If you examine most, if not all liberals, you will see most had vastly privilged lifes. They cannot believe how stupid people are to put them in such underserved positions in life! Thus, the typical adolescent and seemingly atrocious, ungrateful behavior they display for all to see.

    Look at your typical teenager. Is that not a liberal life? Everything is handed to you? No worry about food or shelter? No need to find work? See the similiarities between liberal behavior and a teenager?

    Underestanding this, you can see liberals were born to be a thorn on the side of society. Their behavior need not rile you anymore if you look at it as “spoilt child” syndrome even though they are adults now.

    NOW YOU KNOW THE REMEDY. Give them the beating they want and they deserve to preserve THEIR SANITY! Poking them so they see this is not a fairy tale to them (the good underserved life.)

    So, by beating I mean we must fight all their nasty agendas and put up with when we realize it is not stupid at all, in a way, only that they want the beating they never got in life and NOW WANT because of, yes guilt!

    So be mean, be firm, never give in, but most of all give them the secular whacking they want and you need not feel no guilt or anger about. It does take getting off that couch, however.

    LET’S DO IT! There is a march taking place on November 5, 2013 to ARREST ALL OF CONGRESS, A CERTAIN MR. BARRY SAETORO, AND THE SUPREME COURT. IT IS NOT A PROTEST BUT A SIMPLE CITIZEN ARREST ACTION FOR THE CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR OF INDIVISUALS WHO HAVE USURPED THE CONSTITUTION WHICH THEY TOOK AN OATH TO DEFEND AND PRESERVE AND HAVE NOT FULFILLED THAT OBLIGATION OR DUTY AND HAVE COMMITTED TREASON.

    By not doing nothing we are being complicit in their behavior and may even signal to them that we approve of it! And remember it is OUR right to remove a government that is no longer serving the people and destructive!

    • Karolyn

      Hate to tell you this, BamBam, but most of the liberals I’ve ever known were like me – middle class and from the suburbs. Also, many of us in my age group had parents who were first generation American born. And many of the young liberals I know presently are middle to lower middle class people. I don’t know any who are privileged. You just can’t generalize about whole groups of people. You have to account for where they live, for one thing. I’ve known many conservatives who don’t hate liberals! Believe it…or not! I’ve also known rich, privileged conservatives. (No! Say it isn’t so!) Sorry to burst your bubble.

      • Charlie R

        KAROLYN: Consider this some of the wealthiest politicians are …….. Democrats.
        We all heard a lot about Romney and his millions and yet Kerry, the new Secy of State is just as wealthy and you hear nothing about it thanks to a corrupt press. Romney Earned his money from day one… Kerry latched on the Heintz “Ketchup” fortune.

        Over the last 60 years the democrat party has worked to make everything an “equal outcome” which is now manifest in Obama’s social justice agenda. At one time America was based on getting ahead by education, hard work, and living a civil life.
        Today anything goes according to progressives and the democrat “cradle to grave welfare society” now has a firm hold on the masses who want the free ride. Liberals of today are nothing like liberals of the Kennedy era …. Lyndon Johnson changed that with “The Great Society” ( anyone remember that?)

        BIMBAM: If you think you are going to DC to arrest Obama and congress why wait till Nov 5, 2013 . DO IT NOW!
        The only hope of thwarting Obama and his socialist cabal is to find something that is an impeachable offense and good luck with that. It is not going to happen. Face it; The “new breed” of American voter has allowed Obama to “Fundamentally Change America” and 2013 takes us “FORWARD”.

        Have a Happy New Year if you can; 2013 may generate some unpleasant surprises, as Obama’s REV Wright said , “When Americas chickens come home to roost”.

      • Bimbam

        I don’t think we are talking about the same subject. These liberals do and ENFORCE things. The people you talk about think they are liberals but are not.

        Also, I mentioned discipline. They are some who have easy priviliged lives BUT NEVER turned to liberalism because they GOT THE DISCIPLINE AT HOME OR IN THE COMMUNITY. THUS, THEY NEED NO BEATING! And DON’T WANT ONE!

      • DaveH

        Karolyn says — “I don’t know any who are privileged”.
        You see one every time you look in your Magic Mirror, Karolyn.
        You are privileged by having an unproductive job which people won’t pay for voluntarily with their own money, so your Government must take it from unwilling donors.

  • Kurt

    I have to wonder about the intelligence and or honesty in presentation of an article that begins with, “Whether the gun grabbers orchestrated the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre or..” This is an asinine assertion not worthy of consideration unless your are paranoid to a the point outside of reality.
    I am a life time member of the NRA and a gun owner. I am for the second amendment being supported and not taken away. I plan to buy another gun or two before the right is removed. I hope all will do the same. I hope that all gun owners will work to vote out any representative that votes to remove gun ownership rights, Dem or Rep or etc.

  • Terry Shepard

    We need a new government, one that is legal, constitutional and serves the interests of the American peopl

    • JeffH

      Hear, hear! :) :)

    • JC

      Terry is right. The system we have is broken beyond repair.
      It must be replaced.

    • Canadian

      you need to replace the entire government and the entire ruling elite class and start over……

      Im not sure if voting or complaining will work anymore, if it ever did.

  • Bren

    This whole gun control argument seems to hing on the thinking that if people can’t legally own guns than these things won’t happen. That is simply not true. And for the Left that probably think it’s “the gun loving” right who are the problem I have this for you.

    I was wondering if the political leaning of a state contributed to the amount of gun violence and what if any effect it would have on where these mass murders were. I also wanted to see what effect the ban on assault weapons that was lifted in 2004 had. I found a site that listed mass killings from 1996-2012.

    68 MASS KILLINGS Total between 1996-2012
    According to political affiliation During ban After ban
    RED STATES (Rep) 19 11 8
    BLUE STATES (Dem) 39 18 21

    Twice as many mass shootings happened in states that with liberal affiliations. These are the states with the strongest gun regulations. Regulations on guns make no difference if the mentally deranged or criminals want them? And the amount of mass killings went down in conservative states after the ban was lifted while the liberal states went up. The people who are responsible for the tragic events such this last one that cost the lives of two heroic teachers and all those sweet little children was mentally deranges. He was not able to get a gun so he stole one. No amount of law, regulations or even confiscation of arms will keep guns out of the hands of those people who really want them. All that would be accomplished is for honest, law abiding people to be defenseless against these people. Oh, and the fact that the school was a “gun free zone” didn’t seem to help them at all.

    Another thing people need to think about is all the other nations pushing to have our people disarmed. The U.N. is pushing and China is insisting we disarm our citizens. Do you think these governments give a flying fig about our safety? If you think it’s because they care about us than you in a fairytale land in your mind. Realize this, every nation that is now a dictatorship, every nation that has been a dictatorship, Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Stalin all wanted arms taken away from the citizens first. They said it was for the safety of the people but did it really work out well for the people or the power mad? The founders knew the only way we will remain a free nation is to allow the citizens to keep and bear arms. Liberty comes at a price but we also pay a price for tyranny and the price of tyranny is our freedom.

  • Howard C

    Those of you who believe that more gun control will somehow make us ‘safer’ are missing the entire point. Criminals do not obey the laws that are already put in place… so how will more laws change this fact?? If semi-auto rifles are banned does that mean that they will cease to exist?? Of course not!! They will at least be in the hands of an increasingly corrupt police force. The Second Amendment was not put in place for citizens to be able to hunt or defend ourselves from fellow citizens it was put there for us to keep a tyrannical government from making us slaves. I will die on on my feet before I live on my knees!! Our government was meant to work for us, but these evil bastards that we ‘voted’ in have turned it upside down and they believe that we work for them.

  • ibcamn

    well since you all have some story to tell,i want to tell a story also!..several years ago i met a lady,she was black,very beautiful and had two children and a new boyfriend,she was a dancer by trade,but out of neccesity,started dancing at strip clubs.this does not make her life worth any less than any other person.after the club had closed,she packed up to leave and meet her children and the new love of her life.one customer that night had been aggressive towards her that day and was thrown out,but he waited in the parking lot for her,when she came out,that man walked up to her car(with children and boyfriend inside)pulled out a small revolver and shot her,point blank,in the face and walked away!they caught the man sometime later,he used his fathers 38(the father was a retired police officer)the man who shot her got a few years,on a plea deal of some sort(he’s out now,already).but the retired police officer got his weapon back(since it was stolen from him,by his son)but the children went to foster care,the boyfriend had no rights to them,and it was all swepped under the rug!hardly any news report of this,was it because a police officer’s weapon was used?how could it be returned to the home of the cold blooded murderer?the two still live in the same house and the man,last i heard,just had anger manegment classes,and gets to live at home,with his father,and those children have no such luxury!I believe it’s because the man was the son of a police officer.why not take his pistol away,that was used in a cold blooded murder?it’s not a rifle?so what,it was used to kill someone!and that man’s son had not had any priors(that we know of if other things were hidden from the public,being a police officer and all)to this murder,which he got hardly any time for!!does the police make their own rules when it comes to this,your not getting their guns,EVER,they will keep them,why can’t we?

  • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

    Molon Labe, Bitches! And bring body bags!! Lots of em’!!!

  • CAJUNMAN69

    WAY UP THERE, Pearline Brown ASKS, ” How many of your own children have you Gun Nuts lost because of a crazed nut with a gun?” Probably very, very few. Why? Because we had guns to defend ourselves and our familys! I sincerly wish you or your daughter had had one to defend her. She probably would be alive today. You will be in my prayers.

  • Alex

    Dear Mister Livingston,
    Of the hundreds of articles written by you that I have read, this is the worst.
    Happy New Years’ and PLEASE grow up, Alex

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

      Coming from you, Alex, your personal-attack simply means that Mr. Livingston has hit the nail squarely on the head, AGAIN!

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      I agree with the LAST part of your statement!!!
      “PLEASE grow up, Alex”!!!!!!!!!!

  • gunner689AI

    Some people believe that a centralized gvt. is the answer to all their problems. They yearn for some gvt. entitey to control their lives. These are the sheep who value a false sense of security above the real God given freedoms assured us by the Constitution. They deserve to be slaves to the federal gvt. and centralized planning and a one size fits all approach to sheep control. Personally, I’d rather die a free man than live as a sheep.

  • robert

    Great article Bob. I’m sure it will piss off a lot liberals that don’t like the 2nd amendment. A few snaky comments are not big deal. Keep up the good work.

  • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

    Yo’ Globalist scum! Bring Body Bags!! Lots of em’!!!

  • Joe America

    Michael Moore Says “Whitey! All that’s wrong with America is your fault! As well, Whitey, you are all gun toting killers!” Additionally he’s saying “Afro-Americans are peaceful, law abiding, non-gun users.” Yes, Mikey’s telling the world that all that’s wrong with this nation, has been wrong, or will ever be wrong, is all Whitey’s fault. Here’s a little cartoon that Michael Moore is e-mailing the world, about Whitey and Guns. This is what his handlers, George Soros, Michael Bloomberg and all the other gun grabbers want you to believe about Whitey, and Whitey’s relationship with guns. It’s part of their public mass brainwashing program, to demand that all of Whitey’s guns get taken away:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqh6Ap9ldTs

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

      Try taking my guns, have your arrangements made ahead of time!

  • Lee

    Gun’s don’t kill people we have Drones to do that. And Eric Holder!

  • Danny H

    good read Mr. Livingston, thank you. w/the staggering amount of false-flag incidences, (too many to list) that pile up on the ash heap of un-resolved events, why would it be un-realistc to look at ct in anyother light? the gun control crowd is in a frenzy to dis-arm americans. the govt`s enthusiasm makes that frenzy appear lethargic. it might be a little ironic that 2 days following ct, there was a shooting in san antonio tx. an armed man entered a cafe to shoot his ex-girl friend. killing her, the hysterical patrons fled into a near-by theater. the gun-man followed them in, but was killed by an off-duty female deputy sheriff, who was in the movie house. the deputy shot the gun-man 4 times, saving anybody else from being killed. outside a local write-up and a ceremony to honor her, the national media never printed a word. don`t expect any red-gilled american to believe there isn`t an agenda a-foot and the more it might seem like a stretch, the more closely you might want to examine it….may we lift our prayers for the victims families and despite the tragedies, keep our faith and focus fixed on God.

    • Danny H

      for feinstein, bloomberg, schumer, nadler, holder, obama, or any of them, who live in the delusion that the 2nd amndmt, (or any of the originol 10) is open to debate and legislation, or subject to change, they are either incompetent, or seek their own agenda. for feinstein to lay out contingencies for what she hopes to enact as lawful criteria to be “grand-fathered” in, so as to remain in possession of your own personal, (already paid for, inherited, or otherwise acquired) belonging, throws a wide, shaky loop. so wide in fact that it is entirely lawless and hence, all the more reason to be and stay, well armed. the dick act of 1902, also known as the efficiency of militia bill of 1902, forbids gun control and it cannot be repealed. so the law-faker`s masquerading around as benevolent legislator`s, are little more than the most cowardly scourge on civil society.

  • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

    Any idiot that thinks they are going to remove any guns without getting shot themselves is under dilution at best!

    • http://rockdog1113dothushmaildotcom.wordpress.com rocquedog

      5.56mm Lake City Green Tips. They’ll defeat body armor.

      • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

        thanks

  • Canadian

    The monopoly on violence is a United Nations concept, the state decides who lives and who dies, the state is responsible for protecting your life not you.

    See the United Nations Charter of Rights and Freedoms as my source.

    • JC

      An astute and correct observation.

  • Joe America

    One thing that I find amazing, and quite disturbing, is that the radical liberals who come to this site, demanding gun control, never seem to respond to the fact that the second amendment was put in place to detour tyranny. They don’t respond to concerns about what tyranny would bring to our nation, to our people, and future generations. For some reason, which I can’t understand, they don’t seem to care about that. It escapes them that we’re becoming a police state. And, once we hit a full blown depression, and we will, the police state will become stronger, simply because so many Americans will be dependent upon Uncle Sam to feed, clothe and house them. They also don’t respond to my concerns that they’re being paid by someone to come here, and press the liberal gun grabbing agenda. That’s because they are representing these individuals who want to disarm American citizens, for the purpose of creating a totalitarian police state, and eventually, a one world government, with them, naturally, at the helm. These hypocrites are in the hip pockets of the old aristocracy of Europe (particularly the Queen of England), the new aristocracy of America, the Rothschilds, Harrimans, Oppenheimers, Rockefellers, Walkers, Morgans, Warburgs, George Soros and Michael Bloomberg and so many others pushing for a new (old) world order. These people aren’t happy having more money than all of us combined. They want power; absolute power over every human being on the face of the Earth. In other words, they want to be kings and queens over us. And these liberal turncoats seem to be quite willing to put humanity back on the same old track that it jumped off of in 1776. It all begins with taking our guns away, negating our Constitution and killing our Bill of Rights. It ends with citizens being taken out of their homes, rounded up and put into concentration camps, the gas chambers, and finally, the ovens. Well, maybe not the ovens, as it would probably be greener to bury 90% of the world population in big holes in the deserts. This is why they come here and blah, blah, blah against the second amendment. They believe that if they send scum here to blab 24/7 against us, that we will fold and they will win. Then, they will have realized their percieved manifest destiny, which, in their minds, is the God given right to rule over all men and women on the face of the Earth. To them, putting themselves back in absolute power is simply a correction of a blip in world history; The United States of America.

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

      We had 1776, Now though the year may not be correct, but he Next conflict will be referred to as the 201776 Revolution. Idiot Columnists Threatening to Kill NRA Members, prying guns from their cold dead fingers and To Drag Republicans behind pickup trucks….this has brought this fight to a new level…Time is now ..this must be stopped now!
      Only one option remains! Americans that respect and defend this country and it’s constitution will prevail victorious as we always have!

      • Joe America

        Paul, Allot of the violent rhetoric coming from the left is designed to push people into some sort of action. The gun grabbers would love nothing more than for folks to over react and take some type of violent action, particularly with guns. This would be a gun grabbers wet dream. I would suggest caution in talking about revolution, or any type of violent action against the government. All that does is play into the hands of the NWO elite.

        • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

          Senator Dianne Feinstein (Fascist-Calif.) is another nit wit like Pelosi, Ried etc…I am born and raised here in America( Unlike the phony in Washington) with American values and respect for the Constitution,our Flag and our Military…Yes I believe in God and the Bible, those that want to destroy that are enemies of mine and this entire country and what it stands for! Foreign or Domestic! To allow a radical runaway Socialist agenda to take hold here is coward es…nothing less!
          I will not be a submissive sheep and bow to a tyrannical Socialist or his ways…God Bless us all for what is coming!

          • Joe America

            Paul, I don’t expect you to be passive or one of the sheeple, but you have to be careful about what you say on the Internet. I think espousing anything radical would be dangerous, not only to you, but your family. You’re dealing with some pretty weird folks, in DC; people who are looking for enemies. Don’t put a bullseye on youself. Gandi got more done, passively, than anyone has accomplished with the so called “Arab Spring.” So far, all that’s happened for their efforts is massive body counts, massive destruction of property and homelessness. Violence should always be the court of last resort. I’ve been in war and I’ve seen the consequences of it. It sounds as though you have, too.

  • Joe America

    Ron Paul provides us with wisdom, warning us about a police state. Ron is retired, now, and there is no one left, barring his son, Rand, in the Senate, to carry on this message. Please watch and understand:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVKcB_PSdb8

  • http://yahoo.com Joann Flanagan

    From wence do we derive the right to bears;from the right to selfpreservation against those who attack us and might be repelled by weapons.
    What is the basis for this right to selfpreservation if not the Right To Life?
    When the Supreme Court ruled in defiance of the Constitution that there no Right To Life it nullifed all other Godgiven rights we have including those listed in the Bill Of Rights.
    Till Roe vs. Wade is overturned none of rights are secure.
    Joann Flanagan

  • smoking joe

    I’ve been trained by our government to defend and kill for this country and I still serve today. I’m here to tell you i pitty the fool who comes to disarm me!

    • the conservative

      Semper-fi !! as a former marine, I agree. Way to go, smoking joe.

  • the conservative

    in order to have a free country , all liberals and democrats must go.!!!!!!!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

      sounds reasonable

  • Newspooner

    Yes, the theme of this article is correct. The most dangerous situation of all would be for the government to have a monopoly on violence.

  • FreedomFighter

    …Perhaps 50-100 million firearms currently owned by law-abiding citizens will become contraband with the stroke of a pen. Citizens will either register their firearms, or turn them in to agents of the federal government, or risk becoming criminals themselves. Faced with this choice, millions will indeed register their arms. Perhaps as many will claim they’ve sold their arms, or had them stolen. Suppose that as many as 200-250 million weapons of other types will go unregistered.

    Tens of millions of Americans will refuse to comply with an order that is clearly a violation of the explicit intent of the Second Amendment. Among the most ardent opposing these measures will be military veterans, active duty servicemen, and local law enforcement officers. Many of these individuals will refuse to carry out what they view as Constitutionally illegal orders. Perhaps 40-50 million citizens will view such a law as treason. Perhaps ten percent of those, 4-5 million, would support a rebellion in some way, and maybe 40,000-100,000 Americans will form small independently-functioning active resistance cells, or become lone-wolves.

    They will be leaderless, stateless, difficult to track, and considering the number of military veterans that would likely be among their number, extremely skilled at sabotage, assassination, and ambush.

    After a number of carefully-planned, highly-publicized, and successful raids by the government, one or more will invariably end “badly.” Whether innocents are gunned down, a city block is burned to ash, or especially fierce resistance leads to a disastrously failed raid doesn’t particularly matter. What matters is that when illusion of the government’s invincibility and infallibility is broken, the hunters will become the hunted.

    Unnamed citizens and federal agents will be the first to die, and they will die by the dozens and maybe hundreds, but famous politicians will soon join them in a spate of revenge killings, many of which will go unsolved.

    Ironically, while the gun grab was intended to keep citizens from preserving their liberties with medium-powered weapons, it completely ignored the longer-ranged rifles perfect for shooting at ranges far beyond what a security detail can protect, and suppressed .22LR weapons proven deadly in urban sniping in Europe and Asia.

    While the Secret Service will be able to protect the President in the White House, he will not dare leave his gilded cage except in carefully controlled circumstances. Even then he will be forced to move like a criminal. He will never be seen outdoors in public again. Not in this country.

    The 535 members of the House and Senate in both parties that allowed such a law to pass would largely be on their own; the Secret Service is too small to protect all of them and their families, the Capitol Police too unskilled, and competent private security not particularly interested in working against their own best interests at any price. The elites will be steadily whittled down, and if they can not be reached directly, the targets will become their staffers, spouses, children, and grandchildren. Grandstanding media figures loyal to the regime would die in droves, executed as enemies of the Republic.

    You can expect congressional staffs to disintegrate with just a few shootings, and expect elected officials themselves to resign well before a quarter of their number are eliminated, leaving us with a boxed-in executive, his cabinet loyalists trapped in the same win, die, or flee the country circumstance, military regime loyalists, and whatever State Governors who desire to risk their necks as well.

    Here, the President will doubtlessly order the activation of National Guard units and the regular military to impose martial law, setting the largest and most powerful military in the world against its own people. Unfortunately, the tighter the President clinches his tyrannical fist, the more rebels he makes.

    Military commands and federal agencies will be whittled down as servicemen and agents will desert or defect. Some may leave as individuals, others may join the Rebellion in squad and larger-sized units with all their weapons, tactics, skills, and insider intelligence. The regime will be unable to trust its own people, and because they cannot trust them, they will lose more in a vicious cycle of collapse.

    Some of these defectors will be true “operators,” with the skills and background to turn ragtag militia cells into the kind of forces that decimate loyalist troops, allowing them no rest and no respite, striking them when they are away from their most potent weapons. Military vehicles are formidable, but they are thirsty beasts, in terms of fuel, ammo, time, and maintenance. Tanks and bombers are formidable only when they have gas, guns, and can be maintained. In a war without a front, logistics are incredibly easy to destroy, and mechanics and supply clerks are not particularly adept at defending themselves.

    Eventually, the government will turn upon itself. The President will be captured or perhaps killed by his own protectors. A dictatorship will form in the vacuum.

    If we’re lucky, the United States of America, or whatever amalgam results, will again try to rebuild. If we’re very lucky, the victors will reinstate the Constitution as the law of the land. Just as likely though, we’ll face fractious civil wars fought over issues we’ve not begun to fathom, and a much diminished state or states will result, perhaps guided by foreign interests.

    It will not be pretty. There will be no “winners,” and perhaps hundreds of thousands to millions of dead.

    What you’ll see in the rebellion
    http://www.bob-owens.com/2012/12/what-youll-see-in-the-rebellion/comment-page-1/

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

      Semper Fi God Bless us all

  • Hoser

    Either way we fight. I prefer to do it with semi-autos. Lets get it on!

  • Hoser

    This is exactly why we have the second amendment. FOR A TYRANICAL GOVERNMENT. JUST LIKE THIS ONE! LEAD, FOLLOW or GET OUT OF THE WAY. This Fight will not be postponed much longer.

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

      Hoser you 100% right on the money!

  • red neck

    The politicians are scared of gun owners as they should be so I figure that we can chalk this up as political theater and grand standing.

  • Spoon

    FROM MY DEAD HANDS! i’ll give up my weapon when criminals are executed on the spot upon apprehension. Not fair, violates the criminal’s rights the Marxists say. B.S. ! 24/7 efforts to chip the US Constitution and our Judeo-Christian-based Republic’s principles violate the Laws of God and Nature! Molon Labe`

  • http://yahoo tom

    it will not happen but only create another tevolution. i know many people who will die defending rights and i am one of them our founders did it and so will we. elected official even king obama Swore to defend the constitution but he is only destroying it at every turn. They are terrorist against the constitution

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

      Amen and Seper Fi…we will not be overthrown by this Socialist tyranny, give me Liberty or give me death! We will prevail Victorious!

  • average joe

    I am A United States Marine. I will not be disarmed I will not redjester my guns. The feds better think of their own safty. Both pollitcal and fisical. I am A United States Marine. There are many of us. We will not be disarmed.

  • http://yahoo D.Darlow

    Its time to flush the halls of Washington D.C.and replace the Sociaist pigs with real Americans that care about this Country……………………

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

      Amen Brother I’m with you… Throw the garbage out and the scum at the top

  • Don

    DiannneFfienstien, you have gotten to be like royalty. You think you have the power to decide what people have and what they can do. The original constitution said people with your position were to be servants of thee people. What happened to that. Now you are called a leader. Leaders decide. What happened to government of the people for the people by the people. Between the big businesses and bankers buying you off the people don’t get much.

  • Madkins

    Everyone in this debate is missing the real problem here. Taking away the guns that they propose is clearly not the answer and they know it. Based on all of the facts out there does everyone belive they dont have the same information. They do, do not let them fool you. They are proposing to take these certain guns away because they have too. The low information voter that put them in office wants them to do something. Becasue of that they will take away guns that have no real effect on violence but they can tell their voters that they did everything that they could. There is no real debate here there never was and never will be. All of these politicians on both sides are salesmen and are putting on a show to keep us arguing amongst ourselves and scared and worried. That is how they stay in office and thats how they are able to steal our money and our rights away. Will someone with real honesty tell me the difference between any of our politicians.

  • Madkins

    Oh and all of you that think vets, law enforcement, current members of military will protect you your all wrong. They are the ones defending this illegal governement now tell me the reason or reasons they will sacrifice what they have for others. This country is full of talkers and no action. No politician is powerful without powerful people behind them to enforce their edicts. I mean look at voter turn out its what 30% in a presidential election, locally its like 10%. These politicans know that we are all asleep and do not really care what they do. If we did people would vote give me a break. All I ever hear from both sides is talk talk talk no answers never. In fact we are all talking bad about Obama and the things he is doing and Bush did the same stupid crap, Clinton did, Bush 1 did, Reagan did, Carter did, they all have since wilson when we sold our country to the central bank known as the fed. Our problems are not real they are controlled by the banks and a few powerful few, if not then why are our problems the same as they were since the birth of the country.

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

      Oh get a life……You must have voted for this pathetic Phony…screw you!

  • jopa

    I think Bob is trying to be a little misleading in his article if you don’t read it closely.The sentence on there is going to be a ban on handguns and shotguns is not a ban on all handguns and shotguns but perhaps those just modified to fire ten rounds or more.It would probably serve you better to look up what is actually in the Feinstein bill than believe pro gun groups like the NRA trying to drum up business to pay their high salaries by scare tactics to their members and new members that haven’t seen through their political motives.

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.torsiello Paul Torsiello

      Screw the Government and any ban on Guns, that’s the slippery slope goin to hell and total control of the masses..We wil not be made to be submissive to this
      tyranny!

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    Asalt or Single shot 22 cal. Can kill some body! Than… So can a Bow & arrow… Or a Knife… BUT: INTIMIDATING the Childreen with Uniformen Police… won’t work! for the CHILDREEN! When their Mom or Dad gets a dumb traffic ticket. & the kids see the dumb power trolling through their school… attention to studies will lack!

  • Samdromeda

    There ought to be a law against passing deceptive, ineffective and dangerous laws. Repeal the Federal Reserve Act. The Fed is consolidating control over our currency and shutting down local banks. Banking like politics used to be a local phenomenon and based on local and interpersonal integrity. How does this relate to firearms control? Federal laws will usurp state laws regarding firearms. When this is achieved international treaties mandating control of the sales and ownership of whatever is deemed to be small arms will be imposed. At that point only agencies backed by tax payer dollars and funded on a short term basis by the central banks will have guns. Your bank accounts will be drained and you will be put in detention centers. It is the sweetest form of fascism. [The good ole boys in Czechoslovakia made their own arms in machine shops. Much like the American made machine pistols like the Mack 11. To outlaw guns is to outlaw manufacturing. Oh. I'm sorry. The Chinese make all of our goods. Time to get back to the basics of how things are made and protect our gun manufacturers. The local market should be a secure market or we will be selling all of our product to our enemies under federal mandates.]

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