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The Gravy Train Has Derailed

February 28, 2011 by  

The Gravy Train Has Derailed

Scenes like those playing out in Madison, Wis., with tens of thousands protesting efforts to reduce State budget deficits, may well soon come to your State capital.

States are broke and their budgets are imperiled. Years of living beyond their means, of spending like there’s no tomorrow, of borrowing to fund profligacy and of providing obscene benefits to government workers have caught up with State finances. The chickens are coming home and are finding their roost has collapsed.

President Barack Obama ginned up the stakes in Wisconsin when he said the budget battle, in which Governor Scott Walker is looking to make up a shortfall of $3.6 billion over the next two years, is a battle against unions. That’s not it at all, but Obama seldom lets facts stand in the way of an opportunity to stoke the class warfare argument. It’s what Marxist community organizers do best.

Walker’s proposal would require some State employees to pay about 5.8 percent toward their own pension (they currently pay nothing) and about 12 percent of their own insurance premium (they currently pay about 6 percent, and 12 percent is about half what the average private sector worker pays) and relinquish their rights to collectively bargain their benefits (not their wages).

For this, teachers called in sick or just didn’t show up for work and schools were closed. Union thugs were bused in from around the country to protest. Race hustler Jesse Jackson showed up to get his scowl in front of news cameras. Democrat State legislators — rather than do their jobs (they must be union workers) — ran away and hid in other States in order to deny the Legislature a quorum.

Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi — who knows a thing or two about living the high life at taxpayer’s expense — expressed solidarity with Wisconsin teachers. Unethical physicians handed out sick notes to teachers like they were penny candy.

The irony is Obama, Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid have themselves to blame for this fiasco. In 2009 and 2010, thousands of average, everyday Americans interrupted their lives, took off from work, temporarily suspended their businesses and found babysitters for their kids in order to travel to Washington, D.C., or to a city nearby, to gather in protest of big government spending bills — that paid off elite-favored corporations — and Obamacare.

But Obama, Pelosi, Reid and company ignored the wishes of a majority of Americans and continued to spend and steal liberty from an electorate that was clearly fed up with big government antics. Had this Axis of Evil and their progressive cohorts not run roughshod over the wishes of the American people, Democrats would probably still be in control of both Houses of  Congress and most State governments and State worker benefits probably wouldn’t be the target.

Oh, State budgets would still be in dire straits. But Democrats would be tackling their deficits some other way; probably by raising taxes. If history is a guide, Democrats — and for the most part Republicans as well — rarely tackle deficits with spending cuts.

But voters in November swept most Democrats out of their Houses (governor’s mansions and legislative buildings) and installed new governments. They showed they wanted a change to more frugal governance from one that had no compunction over enriching favored constituencies (unions and certain industries) on the backs of taxpayers. They elected men and women who said they understood what the electorate wanted.

So Walker is making the hard choices his voters sent him to make. And other governors are facing some of the same choices about spending.

According to The Washington Post, State and municipal governments have about $2.4 trillion in debt. That’s 15 percent of the national gross domestic product. Across the country, from California to New York, state pension obligations are crushing state budgets.

Heavy taxes and burdensome government regulation have stymied business growth and run jobs out of the country. Private sector workers have given up raises, endured lay-offs, salary cuts and loss of benefits and have borne the brunt of the financial crisis. Now it’s time for the public sector to accept the reality that the gravy train fueled by bubbles resulting from the Federal Reserve’s money printing policies has jumped the track.

Public sector workers’ salaries come exclusively from taxpayers. Public sector workers’ salaries are used to pay union dues. Unions use those dues to campaign for Democrats who then raise the salaries and increase the benefits of public sector workers.

In other words, if you are taxpayer you have contributed money to support Democrat candidates and Democrat initiatives whether you agreed with those candidates and initiatives or not, as The Washington Examiner’s Michael Barone pointed out in a recent column.

The stranglehold unions have over the Democratic process has to be broken. Wisconsin is ground zero of the battle between some sort of fiscal sanity and the status quo. State budgets are in deep trouble and cuts will have to be made. And those cuts are inevitably going to have greater effect on those who mooch off government.

And public sector employees — with salaries and benefits far and away above that seen in the private sector — have mooched off government for too long. Taxpayers are tired of paying for lucrative pensions and health insurance for public sector union employees when they can’t afford to contribute to their own retirement plans or provide adequate healthcare coverage for their own families.

We’ve seen the result of austerity measures in places like Greece and France. We’ve seen protests against tyranny in the Middle East and North Africa. Sometimes these protests turn violent.

In America, we’ve seen college kids protesting rises in tuition costs at State colleges. In some cities, near riots have broken out when public housing and other public assistance didn’t meet demand. Now we’re seeing protests against meager government cuts in Wisconsin and Ohio. California Governor Jerry Brown is trying to put a plan to reduce the State’s public pension obligations on a June referendum.

Public employees from Bell, Calif., to Clarkstown, N.Y. have been caught looting their taxpaying citizens with salaries exceeding $500,000.

In Washington, spineless Republicans are cowing to Democrats and backing off their pledge to make “deep” cuts, even though they only pledged to cut a meager $100 billion from a budget that tops $1.4 trillion. Democrats are playing games — pledging to make cuts but proposing higher taxes and cuts on children’s aid programs in an effort to gin up the class war.

Political elites, public sector workers and those who’ve made a career milking the system in order to avoid personal responsibility are parasites. They’ve sucked the host dry and the host is ready to end it.

But, as evidenced by the squawking going on in Wisconsin, Ohio and elsewhere, the parasites aren’t about to go quietly.

Walker has all but threatened to use the National Guard to replace State workers — or quash protests. Walker was also was caught on tape saying to prankster who called him and claimed to be billionaire David Koch that he had thought about using troublemakers to infiltrate the crowd in an effort to delegitimize the protests. An Indiana deputy attorney general urged police to use live ammunition against Wisconsin protesters.

Democrat politicians are telling the parasites, “Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary” (Massachusetts Democrat Representative Mike Capuano). Union thugs — apparently having forgotten the calls for civility in the wake of Representative Gabrielle Gifford’s (D-Ariz.) shooting — seem to be following his orders as you can see here, here (the fracas starts at about 7:30 on the video) and here. They’re waving signs comparing Walker to Hitler, using vile language and intimidating and assaulting pro-Walker supporters.

Are these really union supporters validating the stereotype of thuggish behavior, or are these provocateurs?

That’s not clear. But in the run-up to the bailout and Obamacare votes, Tea Party activists were accused of using slurs and intimidation. There was never any evidence to back it up, but the mainstream media ran with the false accusations anyway. When acts of violence did occur, it was revealed the culprits were liberal provocateurs.

But the use of slurs and violence by those who support Leftist policies is never mentioned on the alphabet soup networks or the major papers, and there was scant mention of the duplicity when perpetrators of violence turned out to be Leftists rather than Tea Partiers. That wouldn’t fit the agenda of the mainstream media.

Whether you like it not, changes are coming. The parasites are unhappy. The elites are worried. The collapse is underway.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Susan

    Thanks Bob excellent reporting and the truth we can use for a change.

    • Jovianus

      “Bused in union thugs”? Seriously? When it was the governor who stated he considered sending in thugs to crate a dnagerous situation…then blame unions for it? When almost every demonstrator in support of the union busting legislation was set in courtesy of the national TP and the Americans for prosperity (a 100% controlled Koch org.) ?

      You denigrate the State Senators who have decided to play one card they have…the filibuster. Yet you cheered whe the Party of No did it time and again to every piece of legslation propsed the past two years in DC…whether the legislation was good or bad?

      You cheer when the state is attacking the rights for a group to sit together in solidarity and say ” we want to bargain together as a group” ? When a state says that these rights will be stripped away from some, but not all state unions … and yet the state says it is important for the budget to strip all unions of the right to collective bargain on issues such as health and safety of the employee?

      You cheer when the ‘reasons’ cited bear no relation to reality (how a collective bargaining right affects a budget when salary and bennies changes were ceded already)? And you cheer when the state Legilsautre GOP and the GOP governor…who claim they have overwhelming support …refuse to consider sending the measure tothe voters on the issue of collective bargaining?

      And you support a governor who is ON TAPE saying he considered breaking state law and who’s only call he will take came from monied interests who stand to gain by buying up state utilities for pennies on the dollar and creating a state monopoly on generation of electricty?

      You guys are cheering for all that? And seriously consider yourselves patriotic Americans as well?

      • Dennis

        It is past time for unions to go the way of the Model T. They have lost their way. The tax payer is broke, states are broke, our “guvment” is broke, and you want to hold up the uniopn as a savoir. I do not know what you have been drinking or smoking, but you have put your head in the sand and failed to see where the states are headed as WELL AS THIS COUNTRY. The dems are are bunch of “patsies” for the unions and are intend on giving away all we have worked and saved for.

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Dennis… I agree. The unions started out as a good thing. They have crossed a line and now need to be reigned in.

          • DaveH

            Sorry, Robin, but I disagree with both of you. The Unions never had a legitimate right to group together in mobs and use coercion and force to take the money of Corporate Owners and deprive potential replacement workers (who also have a right to make a living) from taking the jobs that the Unionists looked down their noses at.
            If indeed the working conditions were so horrible, why were there others who would gladly take those jobs? Why didn’t the Unionists get together and start their own companies where working conditions would be acceptable?
            When, decades ago, we turned a blind eye to the kind of immorality displayed by the Union Thugs, we just set the stage for the eventual collapse of our country.

          • Bruce D.

            They crossed the line when they felt it was no longer their responsibility to produce a valuable final product by making it extremely difficult and costly to fire incompetent teachers.

          • eddie47d

            Dennis; Walker is dishonest and it will be hard to side with any of his agenda.The Koch Brothers do want to control Wisconsin’s publicly owned utilities and Walker is willing to sell them dirt cheap. There is a sweetheart deal going on right now and if Walker can bust the unions it will be a slam dunk for the Koch’s. With the unions out it will be a no-bid process or is there good cronyism.? Walker and Republicans want to do away with their Clean Water Rule which states Wisconsin’s water must be purified. Walker is also advocating for a bill to ban all wind power devices from Wisconsin.Would that infringe on the Koch Brothers plan to take over the utilities?

          • Bruce D.

            I am sure it is hard for you to side with Walker Eddie when you worked for the Union for 30 or so years.

          • Conservative at Birth

            Unions have never been a good thing. Read Atlas Shrugged, and the Road to Serfdom, or many other books. Unions are a destroyer of indiviual liberty, pure and simple!

          • eddie47d

            Take your blinders off Bruce and smell the Republican manure.Really check out who they are in bed with. Last week it was said union bosses make around $450,000 tops. I say that is too much but let’s take one of Motorola’s top CEO’s,Sanjay Jha $484,615 yearly salary. Sounds unfair that a union chief could make about the same amount of money?At least that is what the public thinks or sees. In reality Sanjay makes $104.5 million. CEO’s get so much more money from other sources (stock options,bonuses,etc.).They are taking America to the cleaners and it’s nothing but ho hum. We are too placent with the real BS that goes on. Unions(even government unions) are a minor problem compared to corporates.

          • DaveH

            There’s a big difference between Corporate officers making the big bucks and Unionists making the big bucks. The owners of the companies willingly pay the company officers salaries. They don’t willingly pay for the Union salaries. It’s the difference between voluntary transactions and force.
            I don’t expect you to understand that, Eddie, having been a Union member. I realize that it would take a very strong person to admit that decades of their life have been spent supporting immorality.

          • Michael J.

            eddie47d,
            This propaganda parade against the Koch Brothers seeks to portray them as being equally dastardly as “The Attrocities of Soros” and his lifelong career of betrayal which started with him becoming a Nazi sympathiser, when at the age of 10 he assisted the Germans in the separating of the Jews from their belongings before helping them aboard a one way train ride to the death camps, all the while assuring them that they were headed for a new beginning and a better life.

            The truth is that aside from being billionaires there are few other comparisons between Soros and the Koch’s who are staunch conservatives who abhor communism as a result of Fred Koch’s work in the Soviet Union where early in his career he witnessed the horrors of communism first hand.

            It is true that the Koch brother’s contributed $43K to Scott Walker’s campaign, an amount which represents one half of one percent of the amount raised to elect the now governor of Wisconsin.

            I could go on but why bother, after all this stuff just goes in one ear and out the poop shoot. But eddie, you would do well to remember that if you keep reading the fiction of Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, it may make you go blind quicker than your dominant hand will.

          • eddie47d

            That Soros story gets told so many ways you never know what to believe. Also I don’t read the New Yorker.

          • eddie47d

            My comment went way over your head Dave. There is a big difference in $450,000 and $104 millions.That would be like caviar and poop but it was nice of you to defend the immorality of the corporates.

          • nickwolf

            Sure…get rid of your gang…then the other side has all the thugs and you have none? Thats a recipe for poverty. Thats a Feudal Kingdom, thats what we had in England….its why we left!

            Are you incapable of thought? Content to be dragged anywhere the rich want to drag you and your families? The credit card companies and banks were hosing you, Wall St. Coned you out of half your wealth and you want to blame the only thing left from them having totalitarian control. Budgets? This is about the Rich on Wall St. not paying any taxes at all….like EXXON then receiving 4Billion in subsidies from tax payers….while you rail against already under paid Teachers and Firemen? What absolute ignoramus’ …ignoring who’s really hitting you over the head again and again! Just follow the money…it always goes up to the richest 2%. Then they make stuff up….forgetting that it was they who created this mess. Tax them! its what Ronald Reagan did! Get some of the stolen money back….but know…..they created a Tea Party fraud to derail the anger for the thefts and so they can do it again! And the Christian Right fell for it….so steeped in social hatreds they can’t see the truth!

          • Jovianus

            “The truth is that aside from being billionaires there are few other comparisons between Soros and the Koch’s who are staunch conservatives who abhor communism as a result of Fred Koch’s work in the Soviet Union where early in his career he witnessed the horrors of communism first hand.

            It is true that the Koch brother’s contributed $43K to Scott Walker’s campaign, an amount which represents one half of one percent of the amount raised to elect the now governor of Wisconsin.” <— MichaelJ

            1. The Koch's 'abhor' Communism so much it made the family fortune dealing with Stalinist Russia and cutting deals which garnered hard currency for the USSR. Hated it so much he just 'had to' make a few gadzillion acting as the middle man doing his bit to keep Stalin in hard currency and western tech and equipment …

            2. In public records the koch' 'contributed ' $43 grand. How much off the public record by way of independent ads, print media, and funnled through Americans for Prosperity?

            And how come the Koch's can get through to the good governor at will…and everyone else is put off and dissed by no return calls, emails etc?

          • Bruce D.

            I do not hear you say too much Eddie about Al Gore and G.E who stand to make billions off a contrived Global Warming. Half of G.E. jobs are overseas and Obama has already put a lot of money in their pockets with the Stimulus Package. Obama also received more money from Wall Street than McCain and they were rewarded very heavily by the bailouts along with anyone else who backed Obama. Wisconsin’s problem is not about Walker. He is only trying to solve the problem. It is about a corrupt and greedy teachers’ Union who has done everything they can to stop incompetent teachers from getting fired. Despite huge raises and benefits over the last ten years off the backs of the taxpayers they have not raised test scores even 1% point. Basically they are given raises for doing an extremely poor job in teaching basic skills and a very good job in social engineering.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            eddie:

            Mororola is a publicly owned and traded company. The stockholders can demand his pay be cut, he be replaced, they can even change the Board of Directors if they are dissatisfied with the company’s goings on.

            Publick unions should nto be allowed for any civil servant. When we were kids the education we received was far, far superior to the results we get today.

            I read over the week end that only 34% of eighth grade students in Wisconsin can read at an 8th grade level.

            Mostof this destruction in our school system has come about under the SEIU and Carter’s Dept. of Education, which was nothing more than a pey-back to the SEIU for supporting that idiot in 1976.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            MichaelJ:

            I thought Soros was 14 when he began working hand in hand with the Nazis. I had read that he began “making the rounds” with the local Nazis in 1944. He was 10 in 1940.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            nickwold:

            The tax system is fraudulant at best and needs to be gone.

            Check out http://www.fairtax.org

            This would give the rich no way around paying taxes as it is assessed at the consumption level.

          • Bruce D.

            The nice thing about the Fair Tax is that it gets rid of the IRS in most peoples lives. A nation cannot consider itself free with this kind of dark cloud looming over it with its police powers and intrusion into peoples lives. It just gives government too much power over individuals. Also it is better to tax people at the consumption level rather than as a penalty for production and hard work.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            you are mad about the kochs having anytime access to the governor??? Are you just as incensed by the anytime access the SEIU has to the PRESIDENT???? sometimes you are such a whiner!!!

          • Michael J.

            Jovianus,
            Fred Koch made money working in Russia the old fashioned way, he earned it helping a country which was then not our enemy. The western technology you speak of was Koch’s own patented invention of a more efficient way to refine oil.
            The Koch’s ARE staunch conservative philanthropist who believe and support the free market system and abhor communism and thus have recently become enemy number one to communist like yourself and Obama who see them as a threat.
            So, instead of the usual vague accusations parroted by your Marxist leaders store bought media, how about laying some some real proof on the table for all too see, if you can.

          • Michael J.

            Old Henry,
            I apologize, Soros was 14 when he became a traitor to his own Jewish people in order to turn a profit.

          • Lewis Munn

            I agree also. I had a run-in with an eduction union years ago because I taught the students too much too well, and they found jobs too quickly! It confirmed my previous feelings that Unions were not trying to help or improve education, but only to make more money for themselves.

          • Lewis Munn

            I agree also. They can be a good thing, but the playing field has to be leveled, and one party cannot promote anti-government rules-breaking by one party…any one party!

        • Jovianus

          OK…I’m calling you on this one. In Wisconsin…what exactly have these ‘union thgs’ done to merit breaking up the union and stripping away bargaining rights? It wasn’t busting the state budget…that was a nice little give away by the governor earlier this month. It’s not the ages and bennies…they ceded those.

          As for other states…pay and bennies etc do need adjusting and re negotiation, but the call to bust unions is not the solution.

          Now…if unions are soooo terrible, why is that? We’ve only become the greatest nation with the highest standard of living in the history of the world thanks to unions being the voice of the working man.

          Yes..they have issues, but most is all hype.

          Let’s look at the good governor’s proposed lay off list in Wisconsin. Or…take a gander at your respective state and what is threatened if they don’t bust the union. See any Administration layoffs? Look hard….they aren’t there. So is everyone agreeing that there aren’t enough (or barely enough) administrators in state governments ? And the governor in Wisconsin and elsehwere don’t go after the fluff in their layoffs…they hit teachers, etc which are the highest visible and most needed…and used to place fear and anger in the mobs.

          • Bruce D.

            The Union has made it difficult to fire dishonest and incompetent teachers. It can take years at a big expense to the taxpayers to get an inconpetent teacher fired.

          • Dan az

            Everyone is aware of the central government’s deficit problem, but another financial crisis looms over state and local governments. In the two years since the new recession wrecked their economies and shriveled their incomes, the states have collectively spent nearly a half a trillion dollars more than they have received through taxes, and there is a trillion-dollar hole in their public pension funds.

            The states have scooted by on billions of dollars in federal stimulus funds, but the day of reckoning is at hand. Many cities have reached the point of no return and with more than a few states not far behind, the debt crisis is creating a need for a new stimulus package that, if put in place, would likely spell doom for the already-collapsing dollar.

          • Jovianus

            OK…let’s see…Bruce mentioned termination of incompetent teachers. A budget item? nope. An item for reform? Yes. A reason to bust a union? C’mon…give me a break. And Bruce only cited teachers…not the other employees covered by collective bargaining.

            Ad Dan in Az makes no mention of any reason…other than recite state budget woes…which ay and bennies can be negotiated downward without busting a union. Fact is…it’s easier to negotiate with a union …

            So…where’s all these reasons everyone says is the purpose to bust a union?

          • eddie47d

            You might believe in Walkers sincerity if he wasn’t so treacherous and if he took the first pay cut. He won’t contain any debt or solve the crises by blaming the unions and then making side deals with the Koch’s. PHONY!

          • Michael J.

            Jovianus,
            For answers to this immortal quandary, look no further than the wisdom of the Grand Poobah, the exalted seuth-sayer of all things Progressive, the Messiah’s mezmerizing Mentor and the father of Utopian Socialism in America, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, whose thoughts on public employee unions are thus:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xycy1aNZBzc

          • barbm

            unions forcing employers to pay such high salaries and bennies are what has driven so many of our jobs to other countries. how has that helped america? they make auto manufacturers pay people with high school educations so much and provide so many bennies, a new car costs almost as much as a house in some places. i could buy a home on the south side of san antonio for about $35,000. my saturn cost $20,000. it’s an older home vs a new car, but still…

          • Bruce D.

            Dear Newsmax Reader:

            Please read our report on Gov. Scott Walker and what he said on ‘Meet the Press’ Sunday. His comments demolish claims that he is out to destroy public unions and other fabrications.

            Also please make sure you read Dick Morris’ Urgent Letter to find out how you can help Gov. Walker – Go Here Now.

            Please forward and share this email with friends and family.

            Newsmax.com

            Walker Explodes Union Lies on ‘Meet the Press’

            By Newsmax Wires

            Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker says he won’t cave in to union and Democratic demands that he compromise on his effort to curb employee benefit programs. He also vows he won’t “kick the can down the street” when it comes to dealing with his state’s fiscal woes.

            Appearing Sunday on NBC’s “Meet the Press” with David Gregory, Walker laid out his plan to save his state from fiscal bankruptcy while destroying several false claims about his legislation, which Senate Democrats are delaying by refusing to appear for a final vote.

            Among the significant issues covered during his “Meet the Press” interview, Walker:

            Denied he is destroying public employee unions.
            His proposed law still allows public employee unions to exist and engage in collective bargaining for their wages. The state denies the unions the use of collective bargaining to seek pension and health benefits.

            Claimed that unions are not acting in good faith.
            Public employee unions have been claiming they will accept cutbacks in their benefits, but Walker says they can’t be trusted and have been rushing through contracts that give their members extravagant benefit packages.

            Walker told Gregory: “We [have] seen that actions speak louder than words. For us to balance the $3.6 billion deficit we have — but not only now, but to ensure we can continue to do that in the future so our kids don’t inherit these same dire consequences — we’ve got to have assurances. And over the past two weeks, even after they made those promises, we’ve seen local union after local union rush to their school boards, their city councils, their technical school boards and rush through contracts in the past two weeks that had no contributions to the pension and no contribution to health care. And, in fact, in one case in Janesville, they actually were pushing through a pay increase. Actions do speak louder than words.”

            Explained that the law helps local governments curb union demands.
            Walker said: “This bill precisely helps local governments, and it’s effective once it passes. In fact, we’re, we’re facing a $3.6 billion deficit. Like nearly every other state across the country, we’re going to have to cut more than a billion dollars from our schools and local governments. You know, in New York and California, where there are Democrats for governors, they’re doing that. The difference here is, with this budget repair bill, we give those schools and local governments more — almost a billion and a half dollars worth of savings. So the savings they get from our budget repair bill exceed the amount.”

            Said public employee unions are making unusual demands on taxpayers.
            Walker said: “In Wisconsin, a great example of that is, we have, in many of our school districts, a requirement through collective bargaining contracts that they have to buy their health insurance from a company that’s owned by our state teacher’s union, WA Trust. Because of that, it costs them up to $68 million more than if they could just buy it from the state employee healthcare plan. Those are real costs about putting real money in the classroom instead of into these collective bargaining agreements.”

          • Tinman

            jovianus, you have to be the biggest moron to think we became the greatest nation because of the unions.
            We became the greatest nation because of the Men and Woman who served to defend our nation. You can not be one of them! unions are a bunch of thugs who only want to fight someone that can not defend themselves.

          • JC

            Damn! Wish I had seen this before I posted the same thing above Bruce. Good Work!

            Editor, if you’d like to delete my identical post above, please feel free.

            JC

          • JC

            Tinman, we became the greatest nation becayse we were free and motivated to be innovative and create.
            Unions are parasites on that action as they create nothing that doesn’t already exist…they’re just hitchin a ride (as a mob).

          • Dan Burke

            All this arguing back and forth. Here, answer these few questions:

            1. Unions negotiate wages between worker and employer, yes? So who is the employer of public workers? Government or tax payer?

            2. In most jobs we are told not to communicate our wages to our coworkers (never having worked a union job, I cannot say how you handle this). Why is this? Perhaps because we have a knee-jerk reaction to hate those who make more money than we do. So if the public union decided they would like improved benefits according this bill in WI they would then have to negotiate in essence with their neighbors… So, would this not then require that there is disclosure to their neighbors on existing wages/benefits and their desired benefit package? So who would be having the knee-jerk reaction to wage/benefits disclosure?

            3. If you are not required to join the union, and it was not mandatory to take the union dues out of your paycheck? So many of us are strapped for cash now days, so how many would opt so they could put even fifty bucks back into their paycheck? And how many of these dues are higher than fifty bucks?

            My answers to the above:

            1. The tax payer is the ultimate employer. Tax payers actually outnumber the public employees currently, so on sheer numbers they would lose out in these negotiations.

            2. Imagine all your neighbors knew you made more money than they do? Would they believe that your financial story of woe? Or would be angry with your demands for more money? This is clever on the part of the unions to want to keep negotiations between the unions and the government officials and keep the civilians out of the mix. They know they can rile you up with a little class warfare, but they also realize that if the public had to act the part of the employer in the negotiations that this same knee-jerk reaction would stop their agenda cold. If they can pressure a few politicians to succumb to their demands with a few striking teachers, imagine what would happen to their teachers if a few thousand of their neighbors knew what they made… with benefits, etc..

            3. Unions get power from their membership. If it was no longer mandatory to pay union dues, just think of all the trouble they would have chasing down union dues unpaid. Americans as a people, just like our government, is financially irresponsible and the unions know this just as well. They have to realize that if the people are given their money first and then they get paid that many of those “members” would spend the money first instead of saving it to pay their union fees…. Between people who would opt out so they can buy another gallon of milk and loaf of bread, and those who would waste this “new found” cash, the unions would lose tons of valuable cash to campaign with (and pay that 400k wages to union executive).

          • Vigilant

            It’s amusing to see the leftists use the term “union busting” as if that’s a dirty word. Don’t know about the rest of you, but I think union busting is one of the noblest activities anyone could engage in.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            BruceD,
            In NYC, they have a big building that used to be a school that dozens of teachers sit in all day reading the paper as they are guilty of certain offenses. It takes so much paperwork and legal procedings to fire a teacher that the schools just tell them to report there instead of going through the headaches of firing them!! They hope that the teachers don’t show up and don’t call in as then they can fire them easily!!! What pure CRAP!!!!! They could walk in, see a male teacher having sex with a 15 year old student, and the union would still support them!!! That is a good example of scum!!!

          • Lewis Munn

            When I was a teacher, the Union took my money, but had me fired for teaching too effectively! They wanted the kids to learn less so they paid more to the school, part of which went, of course, to the unions.

            Just further confirmed my thoughts on the real goals of Unions!

        • JUKEBOX

          Union dues for government jobs are paid 100% by the taxpayer, and over 90% of that money goes directly into Democrat coffers. So, that means a major source of Dem funding comes direct from the American taxpayer. How does it feel to support something you do not agree with by your tax “CONTRIBUTION”?

          • Jovianus

            Fact…out of the top 10 donors to political parties, 3 are labor…the remainder are GOP bent corporations and Conservatve organizations.

            Fact…Labor IS a consituent..unless all you want to support is Big Corporation and Wacked conservtive ideologues raping us. Currently, the little guy cannot get his views heard because they don’t donate the bucks. Either have complete 100% public financing of elections…or allow LABOR to have a seat at the table to compete with the monied interests of the wealthy.

          • get right

            Juke, are you for busting those unions who represent the millionaire sport players?? They make huge salaries and they feel they must have “Collective Bargining”. In addition, their sports facilities are paid for with citizens tax money. Why aren’t you repubs upset about those unions and the forced payment to subsidize those stadiums?? Interesting!!!

          • Bruce D.

            “His proposed law still allows public employee unions to exist and engage in collective bargaining for their wages. The state denies the unions the use of collective bargaining to seek pension and health benefits.”
            This is out of whack with the private sector. Come on unions are corporations, why don’t you understand that?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Get right,
            I have been upset about that for years. I don’t go to professional sports events anymore because, one I think they are overpaid, two I think they are simply too full of themselves, three I think they cost the taxpayers way too much money!!!
            We have a brand new farm league stadium here that about ten times I’ve had free tickets and I refuse to step in the place! We are short half a dozen police and about a whole crew of fire and emt personell because of it!! I told our mayor that when we were back to the level of police and fire protection we should be at, I might go to a game THEN!!

          • Vigilant

            Jovi, you’re lieing through your teeth when you say,” Fact…out of the top 10 donors to political parties, 3 are labor…the remainder are GOP bent corporations and Conservative organizations.” Cite your sources, man!

            Perhaps you might want to see “Top All-Time Donors, 1989-2010″ at http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

            Almost ALL of the heavy hitters are unions, who by a LARGE margin contribute to the Dems. One of the non unions was Goldman Sachs, and guess who they’ve contributed to, by 2 to 1 ratio: The Dems.

            You know who was #1 on the list, to the tune of %51 million and counting? ActBlue, who bills itself as “the online clearinghouse for Democratic action.”

            Anyone who looks at the chart displayed will be at long last disabused of any notion that the biggest donors in this country are supporting Republicans.

          • DaveH

            What, Vigilant, Liberals are Liars? Noooo. That can’t be. I’m shocked.

          • Vigilant

            DaveH,

            You ever notice how, when furnished with incontrovertable FACTS, such as the URL I cited, the leftist posters just evaporate away? It is pathologically impossible for them to either see or admit to truth.

            Can there be any doubt that they are merely provocateurs and propagandists?

          • Lewis Munn

            I do not like it, of course. But there would be no alternatives. Indirect taxation without representation is not illegal!

          • get right

            Viligant, love that site. However you are lumping together 21 years of spending, look at that site again. http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/03/union-muscle-eclipsed-by-conservative-groups.html
            Of course you probably won’t, as facts point against your arguement.

          • Vigilant

            get right, you need to get it right. I invite anyone to try that link. You’ll get the response “File Not Found.”

            Trying to pull a fast one?

      • Bobber

        Unions are a clear and present danger to the economic health of America and government employees, union and non-union, are grossly overpaid (I know because my whole adult life has been spent either working for or with government). It is time to outlaw unions and deport those who support unions to socialist cesspools like Cuba. It is also time to peg the pay to a fraction of what similar jobs pay in the private sectoe to account for the abysmally low productivity of government parasites.

        • Bruce D.

          I agree that the pay of these union thugs should be pegged to the private sector. These Union thugs are a good reason why you cannot let government get too powerful. They take taxpayer money and use it against you to bribe politicians on the left. Once government workers get too much power it is difficult to wrestle it away from them. They just keep getting more and more powerful and the taxpayer gets weaker and weaker from having to carry them.

        • DaveH

          Bobber,
          to outlaw Unions would be replacing one assault on Freedom with another assault on Freedom. It should be perfectly legal for workers to band together and leave a company in mass if they feel the wages aren’t just. But it should be illegal for those Unionists to harass potential replacement workers and customers of those same companies. That would cure the problem without depriving anybody of their Freedom.

          • Bobber

            Unions use violence and itimidation to get what they want. To outlaw them is no different than outlawing terroist organizations or drug cartels.

          • JUKEBOX

            In our area, we have a steel mill that has been closed for over ten years. Union thugs would not allow a foreign car to be parked on any company property. If you did park one on the property, it would be vandalized. Some one thousand workers lost their jobs when the plant closed. How well did the Steel Workers Union protect these people and their jobs? Not too good!

          • DaveH

            Bobber,
            I dislike Unions as much as you do, but two wrongs don’t make a right. We just need to get Government to do its real job — protect us from the force of others.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            DaveH,
            I believe 100% that all states should be right to work! Anyone using force to try and intimidate a person into joining the union should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law!!! The biggest absurdity is their attempt to disallow the secret ballot!! By law, I have the right to vote as I feel without the possibility of physical harrasment and threats if I do!!

          • DaveH

            I agree, Joe.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Jo… You can point out that Gov. Walker is on tape, making plans to break the law, which as far I as I know he didn’t and was coerced into saying that, but you have no unkind words for the cowards who left the state and refused to do their jobs? Talk about double standards!!!

        • JUKEBOX

          That is called “DEMOCRAT STANDARDS”!

          • Jana

            There is another aspect to all of this.
            Mmonopoly bargaining rights and forced union dues allow union bosses to elect the politicians who negotiate their compensation packages. So the Union bosses have money (taken from the employees) to buy politicians who in turn help the unions. It keeps going round and round and we the taxpayers are the losers.

        • get right

          Robin, you need to check history. President Lincoln, went out a window to avoid voting for a bill he deemed wrong. You want to deny others that same right? Sad, very sad.

          • JC

            Ah! Liberal rationale…two wrongs make a right.
            And don’t bother explaining what Lincoln was running away from, nawww, that wouldn’t help explain your twisted thinking at all….

        • sylviam

          If you are going to just use ONE sentence of a conversation against someone WHY NOT TELL THE WHOLE PARAGRAPH? The Gov. also sain in the same sentence ” I thought of using that tactic BUT SAID *NO* because it would NOT be the RIGHT thing to do.
          Plwase if you are going to speak badly about someone, TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH, but I guess you would rather NOT tell the whole TRUTH, just the DAMNING part, and that is the same as LIEING. Publis workers are wanting COLLECTIVE BARGAINING on WHO? Their boss no, THE TAX PAYER so we are the ones they are trying to beat down. There is NO ONE to COLLECTIVELY BARGAIN WITH. Plus why do the PUBLIC sector even need a UNION for? They are getting PAID DOUBLE, the wages that the PRIVATE sector gets. The UNIONS ARE THUGS that use wages etc as PAYMENT for LETTING YOU LIVE, Isn’t that EXTORTION< sure sounds like to me.
          GOD BLESS AMERICA

      • Bruce D.

        I agree with Bob that the State of Wisconsin is dealing with Union thugs. They also appear to be liars and cheats obtaining phony sick notes from doctors, cheating the taxpayers people out of money, which is what government seems to do best. These Union thugs are trying to enrich themselves at the taxpayers expense. They should not be getting better pay and benefits than the private sector. They are riding on the backs of taxpayers becoming an untouchable group of elites who believe they are entitled to live better than the private sector. Welcome to socialism where common people get little and government workers prosper and rise above the masses.

        • JUKEBOX

          Welcome to the UNITED SOCIALIST STATES OF AMERICA!

          • get right

            Welcome to the United Corporations of America.

          • JC

            Global America Inc.

      • DaveH

        What is Patriotic, Jovianus, about allowing Union Thugs to rob the rest of us blind? Our efforts to stem the theft of our money has nothing to do with lack of Patriotism. In fact, the loss of Freedom promoted by Union Thugs is the UnPatriotic event.
        If you think it okay for workers to demand the salaries of their choice, then I demand that you pay me $1000/month to bad mouth you on this blog.

        • Jovianus

          How are unions ‘robbing” us Dave? Seems everything they are paid is negotiated for…which means everyone had a say in the matter. Subsidizing the wealthy and Big Business…and having us pay for those subsidies and tax breaks..THAT’S robbing us !

          • JUKEBOX

            When you use threats and intimidation to get what you want, and then resort to beating the hell out of any dissidents, vandalizing their homes and cars, and other similar actions, that is legally the same as robbery and burglary. You don’t remember the coal mines that had their equipment dynamited by John L. Lewis’s union thugs, do you?

          • DaveH

            As Jukebox said, Unionists don’t negotiate peacefully. They ply their trade with coercion, intimidation, and outright force.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            jovi,
            you join a union tomorrow. when it comes time to pay the dues, how in the hell did you negotiate what you pay??? you are full of something and it don’t smell too good!!

        • Carlucci

          LOL – !!! Great idea.

          • Carlucci

            (I was responding to DaveH’s response to Jovi).

      • JUKEBOX

        You must be one of those lazy parasites I saw sleeping on the floor of the Wisconsin Capitol building this morning. Get up and go to work.

        • eddie47d

          Sure is alot of talk about union folks making so much more money than the private sector. Where’s the proof? Office worker to office worker? Management to management? Engineer to engineer? Let’s hear the facts instead of this constant barrage of assumptions.I hear just the opposite!

          • Conservative at Birth

            Hello there ostrich.

          • Dan az

            Arizona is so desperate that it has sold off several of its state buildings to private investors and leased them back at a reduced monthly cost—a temporary Band-Aid at best. Illinois currently pays out twice what it collects in taxes. Gas stations refuse to sell fuel to the Illinois State Police without cash payment because the state’s credit card is no good.

            New Jersey cancelled plans to build a rail tunnel to New York City—a project that would have created 6,000 jobs for construction workers—because there was simply no money to fund it, according to Gov. Chris Christie. Instead, he had to get rid of 1,300 state workers, and is still facing a $10 billion deficit in 2011.

            Colorado, Minnesota and South Dakota have all taken the unusual step of reducing the benefits they pay their current retirees by cutting cost-of-living increases; retirees in all three states are suing. With Philadelphia and San Diego reeling as two of the largest cities drowning in debt and nearing bankruptcy, they both lost the race for the dubious honor of being first to tiny Prichard, Ala., where the coffers are empty. In December, the town reneged on sending out monthly pension checks to 150 retired city workers.

          • eddie47d

            Nice answer Conservative at Birth. You think maybe you are the ostrich?

          • JUKEBOX

            Compare statistics that are published by the WSJ on wage comparisons.

          • get right

            eddie, these people don’t deal with facts. First they complain about people not working, then they complain about what type of jobs people have. Wouldn’t it have been nice if they would have complained about the way Wall Street raped the American people?? Oh, that’s right, they have the “RIGHT” kind of jobs.

          • Angel

            eddie47d: Asking for facts here is like asking for a virgin at a brothel – AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            Did you bother to read the post right above yours?? I don’t think you did!!

          • eddie47d

            Have you pulled your head out of your Azz yet Joe?

      • DaveH

        Here is the tape of the Prankster who impersonated David Koch for those who want to see exactly what Governor Walker said:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBnSv3a6Nh4

        By the way, am I the only one who thinks that somebody impersonating another person is a crime?

        • eddie47d

          You mean like that prankster who brought Acorn down and tried to break into Mary Landrieu’s office? Is that dude in Jail?

          • Bruce D.

            I did not find Walker to say anything objectionable on that audio. If anything it confirms he is the right man for the job.

          • eddie47d

            You two would then make fine bed partners. Be sure to check for bed “bugs”.

          • JUKEBOX

            Brietbart did not claim to be an executive of a major corporation, only a welfare receiving pimp. No Comparison.

          • JeffH

            Exactly JUKEBOX! No comparison whatsoever unless one is a liberal!

          • Bruce D.

            I am not in bed with him Eddie but I agree with what he is trying to do. Walker talked about his strategy on that audio. You may not agree with it but to me it showed he is very competent and up for this very difficult task of stopping the Marxist movement taking place by the teachers union. You are a socialist so you have a problem about busting a very powerful corrupt arm of the left. This is not a private sector union. These people are creating an elite class of socialist who are enriching themselves off the backs of taxpayers. That is what socialism is Eddie. Government and government workers rising above the masses as the new upper class.

        • get right

          Crime?? what about those repubs who are impersonating Americans??

          • DaveH

            Sorry, get right, it is the Liberals who are in the minority. And it is they who are working to upend everything which this country stood for:
            http://www.gallup.com/poll/141032/2010-Conservatives-Outnumber-Moderates-Liberals.aspx

          • get right

            DaveH. why do you not want corporations to pay their fair share of taxes?

          • Bruce D.

            Get Right, the owner of PayCheck started his corporation with $3,000 so nothing was given to him. The State of New York in State Income Tax alone wanted $13,500 per day from him on the average. You should watch John Stossell’s program. You seem to have lost a grip on reality Get Right. If you cannot promote your ideology in a fair and honest manner you should think about changing it.

          • JC

            get right…
            Your question isn’t wrong so much as “wrong headed”.
            First of all “Fair” is a concept of children and communists.
            As far as taxes go, everyone should be paying tax at the source of purchase and no where else. No income tax whatsoever. not for you, not for me and not for corporations either.
            User fees for services (other than food) that we all use would easily be enough to support infrastructure.
            In a free market system, balance would be provided by the fact that we can vote with our money and competition in the market place.
            NONE of which is ANY of the Governments business.
            Throw in a sytem of justice for good measure and you have everything you need for success.

            Sadly though, the governments ability to wage interventionist wars would be greatly diminished, the moneyed aristocracy of government corporatism would disappear, and people just might have to take responsibility for their own actions and well being.

            Kind of scary for a Democrat luvvin, Union backing child who thinks things ain’t “fair” though isn’t it? ;)

          • get right

            Bruce and JC, so you think it is acceptable that 2/3 of the corporations don’t pay any taxes??? Come on, let’s be honest, if 2/3 of normal tax payers didn’t pay, you two would be having a heart attack. Everyone and every company should be paying for our defense, not just the low paying middle class. Why do you all want to hurt your own children and promote a system of unfairness? Make the corporations pay taxes and your children can have a decent life.

          • JC

            First of all “get right”, what proof do you have that 2/3 of corporations don’t pay “any” taxes? I call BS.
            Next, you obviously did not read my post above, either that ot is completely over your head.
            Further to that…define “our defense”. Do you mean interventionist wars designed to make politicians and the military industrial complex rich while using fear mongering to keep us all in line?
            Or do you mean the defense of our borders and our sovereignty as Americans? Because I’m more than willing to chip in at the pump or the clothing store to pay for the protection of the continental USA and it wouldn’t take much more than that do cover it.
            But if you mean tax the hell out of everything in sight under a keynesian system of inflated paper currency designed to keep us all under control…you’re insane.

            So, just what the hell are you actually asking? Do you even know?

          • Lewis Munn

            How about those demo’s who are impersonating loyal patriotic informed citizens?

          • get right

            JC, I can’t believe that you don’t know that the richest don’t pay taxes. Just for you: http://www.truth-out.org/article/most-corporations-dont-pay-income-taxes
            http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/08/12/us-usa-taxes-corporations-idUSN1249465620080812
            http://www.washingtonpost.com/up-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR2008081102324.html

            I have over 30 sites to send you to, however just type in 2/3 corporations who don’t pay and you will get all the facts.

          • get right

            JC, by the way, aren’t you supposed to be following the Constitution?
            Well, dude, Article 1 Section 8 clause 1 gives power to the Congress to impose, taxes, duties, imports and excises. Read that Constitution that your radical talking heads keep quoting. Our forefathers knew we needed taxes.

          • Patty

            Get Right, you have it so wrong. I do accounting for many of the people you speak of. They pay plenty. When was the last time you electronically filed a 500k payment to the feds and a 300k payment to your state? There are a ton of S-Corps out there that don’t pay taxes because the profits are put on the companies owners 1040 form and that is where the tax is paid. You no nothing about what you speak.

        • Stan Smith

          WOW! Libtards are out in force!

      • http://personalliberty.com rolychick

        Oh, great, everybody! The comedic relief is here! Gotta love these bloggers who make up their own facts or perpetuate made-up facts or presume facts.

        Um, the governor said he was considering sending in people to discredit the union protesters. He didn’t actually DO it.

        If you look hard enough (of course, you wouldn’t because it flies in the face of your made-up reality), people from extreme groups, such as the marxist party, socialist party, etc., are protesting with these union members. That discredits the protest already.

        • Jovianus

          nOPE…HE DIDN’T do it … but only because at the time it didn’t appear that the People would continue protesting and refusing his devil’s bargain with the Koch bros and Big Corporation America. The idea was considered…which is scary in and of itself. He CONSIDERED endangering people who were peacefully protesting…y’know, he considered taking a page from Mubarek’s handbook dealing with peaceful protestors who actually had the gall to disrupt his plans to strip people of rights and sell state assets at pennies to the dollar (not to mention the profits from a private concern having free rein over price fixing).

          It’s akin to someone admitting they considered raping your daughter but did’t. How nice of them.

          • http://personalliberty.com rolychick

            Jov anus!

            Those “troublemakers” were present in the teaparty protests. They actually caught someone who made trouble in a few different teaparty protests, and then found him to be a democratic supporter. This is documented on video! So please don’t tell me your head is so far up there that you don’t believe this comes from the Alinsky guide book and that it didn’t happen during the healthcare debate. If you say it didn’t happe, you discredit yourself, and my “comedic relief” remark is upheld.

          • Dan az

            Piven’s next words ought to send a chill down the spine of every good American.

            Local protests have to accumulate and spread—and become more disruptive— to create serious pressures on national politicians. An effective movement of the unemployed will have to look something like the strikes and riots that have spread across Greece in response to the austerity measures forced on the Greek government by the European Union, or like the student protests that recently spread with lightning speed across England in response to the prospect of greatly increased school fees. [emphasis added]

          • JUKEBOX

            Why did Obama send his OFA thugs in to join the protesters?

          • Dan az

            he considered taking a page from Mubarek’s handbook dealing with peaceful protestors who actually had the gall to disrupt his plans to strip people of rights and sell state assets at pennies to the dollar (not to mention the profits from a private concern having free rein over price fixing).
            Since when shere you for peoples rights how about our rights to keep the money that we earn instead of giving it to slackers that just want more.Breast feeding time is over its time for all of your kind to go out into the world and make a living for your selves and quit wining.the days of the libs and progs control are over and will remain so for the next twenty yrs count on it.

      • Bob in Ohio

        I agree with Jovianus, and not Bob Livingston’s typical rupuke talking points. Livingston’s only goal, is to make money, off of pandering and lying, to his repuke flock. The only reason, I read this repuke bullcrap, is to have knowledge of their misguided thoughts, and beliefs.

        • marvin

          Bob in Ohio
          so repuks as you say are the cause of all this a little fact unions give to dembo like you money they extorted from the states and federal gov ,their are more none union tax payers then union ,tell me why union member ship is falling and why is their illegals in the great unions why is it you in the unions want to hurt anyone that will speak aginest you,the unions broke the steel mills the car makers and we the none union tax payers had to foot the bill

          • bob wire

            No Sir, what broke US Steel Mills was greedy owners that failed to invest back into retooling their industry and decided rather to spend the money elsewhere while the US government with it’s mighty industrial complex aided in the retooling of Europe and Japan after the war where each government had a strong interest and aided business in this reconstruction effort.

            Unions have very little control of where fat cats invest their profits. That US Steel Mills could no longer compete with their 1800 century industrial method and equipment, you have chosen to lay this at the Unions doorstep?

            Shame on you!

          • libertytrain

            I wonder what “broke” the breweries in Milwaukee – some years back – back when ‘Beer made Milwaukee famous’ – I remember actual breweries throughout the city, then one by one, they were gone. Something about the unions.

          • Bud Tugly

            The unions were a factor in the auto industry, but much less important than atrocious leadership. The designs they honchos were approving were weak. They were unable to recognize what foreign competition was building and they let their reliability slide. Blaming the unions for this is like blaming the camera operator for an actor’s poor performance.

            Another important factor is the investment in toxic assets that drained the sate pension plans. Stop blaming the workers for poor decisions by those in charge.

          • bob wire

            “I wonder what “broke” the breweries in Milwaukee –” Hmm? I have no knowledge or history to draw from.

            except maybe Jerry Lee Lewis , “What Made Milwaukee Famous make a loser out of me”?

        • Wandamurline

          What you just said applies to the Unions three folds.

          • eddie47d

            Amen,Bob!

        • JUKEBOX

          That’s the only reason we watch ole “Tingly Leg” on MSNBC, to see what liberal propoganda they are pushing.

        • get right

          Bob,isn’t it amazing that so many have been hood winked? Take away the repub talking points and half the nation can’t speak. Common sense has been banished. Still waiting for the radical right to issue list of what jobs are acceptable and what specific Christian demonation is the “right” one.

          • Cawmun Cents

            Whatever organization you are (doing work for yuda) thought you’d be worthwhile.Why dont you just be honest with these people and tell them that someone is using you to foment the “fairness” doctrine right here on Bobs letter.That way you can finally be honest with them,despite yourself.Why hide in the shadows?It’s plenty permissible in the current environment for you to “rail against the man”.Fess up.Come on now just be yourself.Take the gloves off.No need for civility here amongst the hated Christians and Conservatives.Dont you have any testicular fortitude?Whats with the politically correct stuff?Man….you are cowardly arent you?

          • Bruce D.

            Commun Sense there is a lot of truth in what you say. There is a guy named Jeremy Loughner on the left who blogs here at times and is very truthful about who he is and what he stands for. I respect him for that. Get Right just talks a lot of nonsense and lacks the integrity to speak in forthright manner.

          • JC

            get right says:
            February 28, 2011 at 11:56 am
            Bob,isn’t it amazing that so many have been hood winked? Take away the repub talking points and half the nation can’t speak.
            ___________________________________________________________________

            Can’t speak for all Republicans, but my talking points are the Constitution of The United States of America. And good luck taking that away.

          • Patty

            You can’t hear most of the talking points because of the screaming
            me-me liberals.

      • marvin

        Jovianus
        if you can show me in the constitution where you have a right to unionize and get violent and campout in a goverment building and hold the none union tax payer hostage to your demands then you may have a leg to stand on but demm if i am going to pay any one that works for me more then i make

        • eddie47d

          Who said you would have to Marvin?

      • jvr

        Well put, Jovianus. It’s good that a few commentators have added some additional perspective to your points. the article is a right wing diatribe full of invective a distortion. Even Rush would be proud of it since it provides much heat a little light. Talk about class warfare! I don’t understand why hard-working citizens, yes including 95% of public sector workers, are coming under such a firestorm of attack.

        Step back a few years when Paul O’Neill, then Secretary of the Treasury under President Bush, warned that deep tax cuts were unsustainable, especially with two wars in the making. The reply, from Vice President Cheney, hero of the right, was “Reagan proved that deficits don’t matter.” Forgot that little fact, huh, Bob. Let’s just find a few union workers to scapegoat.

        • http://personalliberty.com rolychick

          Duh! This is a conservative article. Why else wouldn’t people who tend right comment? I’m sure that most left-leaning blogs have liberal “diatribes.” You make it sound so bad…but because they don’t think toward your tendencies. That’s not a very good argument.

        • Dan az

          SharpShtik (not verified)
          Unions and Collective Bargaining Must be Abolished

          It’s great to hear forced collective bargaining with a forced monopoly called precisely what it is. Hopefully Republican politicians will start calling this legally fabricated wealth redistribution disaster what it is.

          Unions and collective bargaining are legal fabrications for purposes of wealth redistribution like so many other disastrous creations of the far-left, e.g., affirmative action (standardless) lending and affirmative action health insurance. As such they can be modified or, better still, eliminated the same way they were fabricated.

          Forced collective bargaining with labor unions forces taxpayers to pay for an uncompetitive monopoly of services in the case of state employee unions that have 80%, 90% or even 100% market share of one or more sectors such as teaching.

          Unions have tremendously unfair advantages over other collective service provider entities such as corporations and partnerships. These unfair advantages include what should be declared unconstitutional laws forcing businesses and governments into collective bargaining with uncompetitive monopolies. Other collective service provider entities such as corporations and partnerships do not have these advantages. No business or government is forced by state or federal law to negotiate with a corporation or partnership.

          Many decades of the unfair advantages and outright collusion of Democrats in government and Democrats in unions during “negotiations” with Democrats’ sacred political fundraising cash cow have already resulted in bankruptcies of some of America’s largest companies (followed by taxpayer bailouts of tens of billions by Democrats aided by naive Republicans). Legally fabricated monopolies for labor unions and interference by their fellow Democrats in government effectively forced GM and Chrysler to hand over a massive share of company ownership on top of everything else, which is always the ultimate goal of unions. After increasing taxes to breaking points, government employee salaries and benefits are pushing governments to bankruptcies after decades of paying far too much for sub par to incompetent services that are nearly impossible to eliminate thanks to forced collective bargaining.

          More than 22 million municipal, county, state and federal employees, many with much higher salaries and benefits than private employment and many with sub par competence and work ethic, have broken America’s backbone, i.e., taxpayers.

          Democrats attacked Microsoft as a monopoly with far less market share in a sector than a teachers union, but yet they praise the monopolies they fabricated by legislation creating and forcing recognition of unions and forcing collective bargaining with otherwise specially privileged unions.

          People who collectively want to deliver a service should be limited to standard business entities such as corporations and partnerships, many of which are already service only (e.g. law firms). Unions should not be recognized or given special treatment over other collective service/labor business entities because, by design, it only retards competition, protects and overpays low quality and forcibly redistributes wealth to Democrats.

          Competition must be forcibly reintroduced with laws requiring governments to diversify who they do business with and forcing governments to only do business by competitive bidding. Groups of competent, hardworking and honest teachers who respect taxpayers can form corporations and partnerships to compete against unions and shine light on how much taxpayers are being forced to overpay by being forced to deal only with a monopoly labor union through forced collective

          • eddie47d

            As usual you over looked CEO pay or a company Presidents pay in comparison to that workers pay. How does the bosses earnings compare to the average worker and how does his salary effect the bottom line of the company? I would like to see some fair and fully honest percentages in who is making what and are any of the paychecks justified. If a union man is getting paid $75,000 and the owner is only getting $125,000 then Maybe there is problem with unions. I would like to see facts not just anti-union fantasies.

          • sylviam

            *AMEN* Dan—-I remember when MY OWN DAD was a UNION member but he left it when the WORKER got sold out BY UNIONS AND THE DEMOCRATS, when asked WHY my Dad said it is not for the workers anymore Its about POWER THAT THE POLITITIONS GAVE THEM.
            Unions have OUTLIVED their NECESSESSITY, Laws for all they stood for YEARS ago, have since been enacted and made the UNIONS OBSOLETE They just don’t want to give up the power that the DEMS. gave them. Now, The teachers are the only ones in WISC. that all this is about because THE FIRE MEN AND POLICE are EXEMPT from it all.
            ITS SOCIALIST GOV. in its glory all the way.
            All I can say is GOD BLESS AMERICA

          • Brad

            Dan az,

            Great piece Dan, loved reading what you said. Unions had there place but with the advent of chaild labor laws, the EPA, OSHA, unions have become irrelevant. eddie47d is a tired old man who never made anything for himself and he’s mad and wants to take it out on people who have a different view then what he’s been fed.

          • eddie47d

            Brad; Were you peeking in my window again last night?It’s amazing how much you think you know.

          • Dan az

            eddieeee
            So if you owned a business and had two employees and they said they wanted the same amount of pay that you where getting you would give it to them RIGHT!I’ll tell you what ed I’ll come to work for you and you pay all the costs but I demand that we split the profits or I will force you to close your business.Come on eddiee use some common sense.

          • eddie47d

            Dan; Where do you come up with this stuff. Since I never said such a thing do you feel good about fibbing? Tell a lie often enough then it finally becomes the truth??!!

          • Dan az

            States face $3 trillion in unfunded public pension obligations

            A study released by the National Center for Policy Analysis reveals that the crisis in unfunded liabilities in state and local government public employee retirement funds may amount to $3 trillion, not the $2 trillion previously estimated.

            The National Center for Policy Analysis examined discount rates used in calculating how state and local government pension plans are determined, concluding that liabilities may be 75 – 86 percent higher than reported.

            The significance of that finding: “As a result, taxpayers’ role as insurer may be much greater than anticipated.”

            The group analyzed 153 state and local pension plans, representing more than 85 percent of liabilities for state and local government pensions and other benefits, recalculating their liabilities using a lower discount rate.

            The conclusions:

            * Unfunded pension liabilities are approximately $3.5 trillion, compared to the reported amount of $493 billion.

            * Unfunded liabilities for health and other benefits are $558 billion, compared to the reported $537 billion.

            * Thus, total unfunded liabilities for all benefit plans are estimated at $3.1 trillion – nearly three times higher than the plans reported.

            To put these liabilities in context, the National Center for Policy Analysis pointed out that unfunded obligations under pension and other plans amounted to 7.1 percent of gross domestic product, or GDP, in 2008.

            When adjusted using a “more appropriate” discount rate, the states’ unfunded obligations were 22 percent of U.S. GDP.

            Further, all but 10 states and the District of Columbia have total adjusted unfunded liabilities above 15 percent of their state GDP, while four states – Alaska, Hawaii, New Jersey and Ohio – have adjusted unfunded liabilities above 35 percent of their state GDP.

          • Al Sieber

            I know eddie.

          • JC

            eddie47d says:
            February 28, 2011 at 11:14 am
            As usual you over looked CEO pay or a company Presidents pay in comparison to that workers pay. How does the bosses earnings compare to the average worker and how does his salary effect the bottom line of the company?
            _______________________________________________________________

            You really resent your betters don’t you eddie?
            You’d really like to drag them down to your level wouldn’t you?

            There’s a word for that….Bolshevik.

          • eddie47d

            How about a corporate thief which you fully support.

          • get right

            Dan, why don’t you educate yourself on the unions? http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/friedman.unions.us
            I know you won’t read the whole article, as you repubs have no desire to look at the whole picture. If unions are such a bad deal, why do you think every civilized country has them?

          • Patty

            Hey Eddie – Name me one company that our gov’t. bailed out prior to Nobama that didn’t have a union work force?

        • get right

          Rush, belongs to a Union, as does, Hannity, Orielly and most of the Fox commentators. It’s ok, for them, but not for middle class.

          • Dan az

            Get it right
            If they worked for the state or the guv then yes they would be on the list of wasted tax payers money along with all the others.So whats your point?

          • Cawmun Cents

            Their point is to represent an opposing view Dan….its the New FCC Standards,were’nt you aware?Its their job.Someone pays them to do it.Likely that,or they do it for an organization like “people for the progressive way”,or some strange sounding group that touts defense of liberty.But they are all the same.They get their talking points from a disturbed progressive liberal academic,like the ones currently inhabiting the “White House”.They work to get you riled up and keep your mind off of the dung heap they are turning our nation into as we speak…chat…e-argue.IT IS AN OLD TACTIC….used many years ago in another place,not far from where,they want things to change into now.These people are defiant against God and have no real care about the issues we communicate about.They just want to represent the other side,so when others come on this site they will see two sides of a one-sided argument.That is why they are here.Not one other reason can you present that will make sense.Get used to it.It will begin to happen on a small scale and will eventually drown you out from the sheer repetition.It is a communist tactic.But you wont listen to me so its like I am talking to a wall.Wouldnt be the first time I was up against a wall listening to communists tell me what I should be doing.But it will be new to some of you.

          • DaveH

            They are Union Members, Get Right? Wow, thanks. Before I knew that I was thinking where is their experience? How can they bash Unions without any first hand experience? Now I know, thanks to you, Get Right.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          rolly chick,
          you’ve never been to huffington post, have you? Or as we call it huff, puff, n toke!!

      • Bud Tugly

        From the NY Times:

        “In recent weeks, Madison has been the scene of large demonstrations against the governor’s budget bill, which would deny collective-bargaining rights to public-sector workers. Gov. Scott Walker claims that he needs to pass his bill to deal with the state’s fiscal problems. But his attack on unions has nothing to do with the budget. In fact, those unions have already indicated their willingness to make substantial financial concessions — an offer the governor has rejected.

        What’s happening in Wisconsin is, instead, a power grab — an attempt to exploit the fiscal crisis to destroy the last major counterweight to the political power of corporations and the wealthy. And the power grab goes beyond union-busting. The bill in question is 144 pages long, and there are some extraordinary things hidden deep inside.

        For example, the bill includes language that would allow officials appointed by the governor to make sweeping cuts in health coverage for low-income families without having to go through the normal legislative process.

        And then there’s this: “Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state-owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).”

        What’s that about? The state of Wisconsin owns a number of plants supplying heating, cooling, and electricity to state-run facilities (like the University of Wisconsin). The language in the budget bill would, in effect, let the governor privatize any or all of these facilities at whim. Not only that, he could sell them, without taking bids, to anyone he chooses. And note that any such sale would, by definition, be “considered to be in the public interest.”

        If this sounds to you like a perfect setup for cronyism and profiteering — remember those missing billions in Iraq? — you’re not alone. Indeed, there are enough suspicious minds out there that Koch Industries, owned by the billionaire brothers who are playing such a large role in Mr. Walker’s anti-union push, felt compelled to issue a denial that it’s interested in purchasing any of those power plants. Are you reassured?”

        • Dan az

          Walker told Gregory: “We [have] seen that actions speak louder than words. For us to balance the $3.6 billion deficit we have — but not only now, but to ensure we can continue to do that in the future so our kids don’t inherit these same dire consequences — we’ve got to have assurances. And over the past two weeks, even after they made those promises, we’ve seen local union after local union rush to their school boards, their city councils, their technical school boards and rush through contracts in the past two weeks that had no contributions to the pension and no contribution to health care. And, in fact, in one case in Janesville, they actually were pushing through a pay increase. Actions do speak louder than words.”

          Read more on Newsmax.com: Walker Explodes Union Lies on ‘Meet the Press’
          Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama’s Re-Election? Vote Here Now!

      • Wandamurline

        The real question here is this…Is Wisconsin going to be run by the congress and governor that the MAJORITY of the citizens of Wisconsin elected….or is the special interests and unions going to run Wisconsin. The last time I looked, I believe that the elected government is supposed to be running the state. As the current POTUS has stated…”That’s what elections are for”. If you do not like what the elected administration is doing, then the next election cycle you go to the polls and vote them out. That is the way the Republic and Democracy is supposed to work. If you have a beef, go ahead and protest…that is your right, but don’t get violent when you get outvoted by the current administration… the tea parties did not like the federal government’s innovative agenda, we protested, we lost…Obamacare was signed into law. So, in November, we changed the landscape of the administration….as we will again in 2012. The unions are wrong….they say they’ll make concessions this year but don’t take away our bargaining rights….then comes next year, and it is the same thing…give us more. What the unions are really saying is this….we have all of these grunts (members) and we need their money to further our lifestyle and get more power from the government so we can continue to send businesses to foreign countries and keep the socialist/marxists Democrats in power by funding their campaigns. Do any of you worker grunts want to send your dues to campaign coffers….what about your retirements…where exactly are your dues going? Do you even know? I think before you align with the unions, you should invesigate into how they are spending YOUR money…it is your money, not theirs. The time has come that the taxpayer will no longer put up with the unions and their demands, their time has past, and the unions will eventually die and Trumka is afraid, he is very afraid because what it will do for his lifestyle….not the member’s lifestyle. Every state should be a right to work state…I believe it is unconstitutional to have to join a union to get a job. Maybe, we should be checking into this matter.

      • http://comcast.net Jim

        Eliminate unions, bring back child labor (why waste time and money on kids who don’t want to learn) we can save billions by closing schools. Restrict the rights of women voting. All they do is elect liberals anyway. Heck, why not just make it unconstitutional to add ammendments to the constitution. Didn’t the founders make it perfect? Remove all ammendments to the constitution, we will have a real savings in labor and less illegal aliens to contend with.

        • get right

          Jim, you noticed that they don’t want abortions, but defunded the ability of women to get birth control?? Stupidity at it’s finest. Let the War on women continue. They spend millions on penile inplants for older men, but won’t let women decide how many children to have. How many millions you think are spent on Viagra? They want less government involvement, except for when they want you to obey their agenda.

          • Sandra Lee Smith

            NO ONE is taking away any woman’s right to choose how many children she has; EVERY woman has access to the only form of birth control that’s 100% effective at all times, and it’s FREE; doesn’t cost a penny and has only one side effect: MEN have to control themselves! It’s so simple most 2 year olds master it. It’s the word NO. All we’re saying is that women need to be responsible for MAKING their decisions BEFORE they engage in behaviors which might result in pregnancies, if they don’t want the children! Neither does it do harm to the men, except their egos maybe, and that may not necessarily be a bad thing. Stop listening to the lies and LEARN the facts!

          • get right

            Sandra, you aren’t keeping up with the latest affront on womens rights. The repubs are defunded Planned Parenthood, where many younger women go for birth control. Get in the game. I personally resent the fact that an 82yr old man gets $23,000 for a penile implant, when thousands of women can’t get care for breast cancer.

      • Dale on the left coast

        @ Jovainus . . . so in your looney-lefty-world . . . Thinking about something is the same as actually doing . . . WOW!!! The union thugs would love you for their lawyer.

      • barbm

        i don’t think walker suggested bringing in thugs. i think he said it was suggested and he rejected the idea. i read that story too, Jovianus, and don’t recall seeing a name attached to the suggestion. i do, however agree that he should include ALL public employees and that what’s good for the goose is good for the gander when it comes to filibuster. running from their responsibilities is NOT a filibuster, it’s a coward’s way out. the bill will still be there waiting for them when they return, so they aren’t doing anything but delaying the inevitable. had they stayed and voted no but lost, the teacher would’ve gone back to work sooner. they hurt the kids by shutting down schools. no dedicated teacher or legislator would do that. the republicans have been dealing with a bullying congress for years, but they didn’t cut and run. the 2 times our texas government was stopped dead was when dems ran, never the republicans, just the dems. i believe walker wants unions ended so that, in the future when they want to not give raises, etc, there won’t be a strike. i want unions out becuase of the way they force their members to campaign for dems. please tell me where you read or heard that the ONLY calls he will take are “from monied interests.”

      • Void1972

        I don’t think we should be fighting over union pay, (even though all unions are corrupt) while the bankers raped and pillaged us out of trillions, our leaders and media create this war between the people, divide and conquer. Our leaders and the bankers that pay to get them hired have robbed us blind, and we fight between ourselves over a few dollars.
        God help us!

        • get right

          Void, you grasp the underlying fight. Get the middle class to fight amongst itself. While the elite get richer on our backs. We can thank the unions, for a five day work week, overtime pay, child labor laws, saftey in the workplace, discrimination laws, vacation pay, pension plans,minimum wage, worker compensation, which would not be in the work place presently. Our country is the example that all other industrialized countries implemented for their workforce. Since the decline of unions, our private sector wages have flat lined. The unions caused the private sector to pay competive salaries.

      • debalazo

        While CEO’s are ultimately ripping off the consumer with high prices by just pointing fingers and colluding with corrupt government officials, at least in their favor they are responsible for production of ‘something’. On the other hand, the mafia union bosses produce NOTHING, except for aggravation to the tax robbed payer.

        As for the Kookie bros, WHAT they have to do with STATE employees?? NOTHING! Blood sucking state ‘workers’ pampered by the mafia bosses so long as the bosses get their share of the forced payment of ‘dues’, more like ransom.

        At the far end, we are dealing with one parasite or another in a position of power or other. It is time to dump the suckers and break their milk bottle for ever: CEOs, corpoRATs, mafia unions, lazy state parasite workers, and corrupt politicos, especially, the Demoncritters.

      • Sandra Lee Smith

        I don’t know what it is you’ve been sniffing that you can’t see for yourself; but I do know you’re buying the Dems’ socialist indoctrination and lies, hook line and sinker. Those bused in were UNION not TEA Party people, and they were supported by OBAMA, not the Koch brothers. Soros undoubtedly had a finger or 2 in the pie too. The reality is that unless states DO cut their budgets, and those employees are the LARGEST expense; there won’t be ANY salaries or benefits for ANYONE, because the states ARE BROKE; as in NO MONEY with which to pay them, no matter WHAT it says on some contract! The gravy train HAS gone off the tracks and there’s NO getting it back on without EVERYONE gives some, more than mere gestures for a moment! At best, the US has a very LONG, PAINFUL road back to any sort of prosperity, and it won’t happen without the UNIONS giving up their power. So, unless you really want to live in a Soviet Union ala Stalin, you might want to rethink your position!

      • Lewis Munn

        You say it is OK to run completely away from our governmental process, but not OK to filibuster against bad legislation?

    • debalazo

      While CEO’s are ultimately ripping off the consumer with high prices by just pointing fingers and colluding with corrupt government officials, at least in their favor they are responsible for production of ‘something’. On the other hand, the mafia union bosses produce NOTHING, except for aggravation to the tax robbed payer. As for the Kookie bros, WHAT they have to do with STATE employees?? NOTHING! Blood sucking state ‘workers’ pampered by the mafia bosses so long as the bosses get their share of the forced payment of ‘dues’, more like ransom. At the far end, we are dealing with one parasite or another in a position of power or other. It is time to dump the suckers and break their milk bottle for ever: CEOs, corpoRATs, mafia unions, lazy state parasite workers, and corrupt politicos, especially, the Demoncritters.

  • Larry Owens

    Wisconsin Democrats now OWE state Taxpayers $165 Million Dollars

    The American Thinker points out that, thanks to the refusal of the Wisconsin Democratic party to admit that last November’s elections mattered, a deadline for reducing the debt servicing load of the state of Wisconsin by $165,000,000 expires today.

    The money was to help pay a court case settlement involving a $200,000,000 raid on the Injured Patients and Families Compensation Fund in 2007 by the previous Governor Doyle (DEMOCRAT) administration; the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled that using the fund to balance the budget was unconstitutional, which means that the state has to pay it back. It also means that without this provision in place, the state is not going to have the opportunity to get even a little out from under its 43 billion dollar debt.

    $165,000,000 divided 14 ways works out to just over $14.78 million per AWOL state Senator: personally, I say that they should have their paychecks garnished for it. Forever. And then send the remainder of the bill to the Wisconsin Democratic party, since they’re so happy to spend other people’s money on their own petulant political gestures…

    • Bud Tugly

      Did you miss the right’s reaction to Obama’s election? Cooperate on nothing, repeal everything, block everything… obstruct, obstruct, obstruct.

      Obama could have claimed a mandate but the GOP refused to accept what the people voted for at the time.

      Did that election mean anything to them?

      • eddie47d

        The right loves to throw the poison darts but when they bounce off the wall and They get stung they go into a frenzy. When I first joined this site in Sept 2009 I had great respect for conservatives. Now that feeling is slipping away for they can lie with the best of any politician.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          says one of the biggest on this site!!!

        • JC

          Respect? Ah! Like a lamprey eel respects its host, maybe?

        • get right

          eddie, funny how the radical right doesn’t admit that repubs belong to unions isn’t it? They also think that no repubs get abortions. They also think that dems don’t pay any taxes. When this country crashes history will show that the conservatives took it down!!

          • Patty

            They don’t say that you label maker. They just don’t go on Jerry Springer, reality TV shows and advertise it. I could care less if you want to abort your voter base. Please feel free to contine you walking advertisment for contraceptives.

  • Robert Smith

    What is needed is a flat tax with no deductions. Everyone pays the same percentage. NO loopholes.

    Rob

    • herbstine

      The problem with that is the pols will simply keep ,raising taxes, not cutting their wild spending. WQhat’s needed is a Fair Tax, which is pinned to consumer spending. The more we spend, the more tax paid.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        herbstine… I agree… Time to dump the IRS and go with the Fair Tax!

        • GregS

          In addition to dumping the IRS, we need to dump real estate taxes as well. This is probably the most unfair tax that there is, because it’s not based on any money that the taxpayer has. It’s based solely on what the local government wants to extract out of the taxpayer, regardless of whether the taxpayer can pay it or not. In fact, in many cases, it’s not even based on property values, because if that goes down, the local government simply raises the tax rate.

      • Bruce D.

        I prefer the Fair Tax. It also allows for those with more money who buy more things to pay the most tax in a fair manner.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Bruce D,
          but that would hurt the lesser among us!! Boo Hoo Hooo!!!

      • JR

        Fair tax? Does not work, How do you propose to tax the people that earn they’re money in the US but get abroad to spend it? And trust me, once you institude fair tax, none of the people considered “”rich”” will pay any taxes anymore because they WILL go abroad to spend. Using the so called fair tax will bankrupt this country in a flash.

        Nope, the only answer is a flat tax. 15% of your income for taxes and no loophole, 20% for corporations (that way the practice of tax evasion by founding a corporation will just go away).
        Flat tax with NO loophole and NO deductions for all is the only answer.

        • marvin

          JR
          how is 14,5 trillion ,in 1999 we had a 5.6 trillion dept in jan 2006 1t was 85 trillion in jan 2011 14.5 trillion the goverment can not spend 1 trillion a year and not be bankrup taxing is not the prob ,spending is the prob,no one can spend 2 to 3 times what they make[tax] for long,the give aways have got to stop

        • marvin

          JR
          how is 14,5 trillion ,in 1999 we had a 5.6 trillion dept in jan 2006 1t was 8.5 trillion in jan 2011 14.5 trillion the goverment can not spend 1 trillion a year and not be bankrup taxing is not the prob ,spending is the prob,no one can spend 2 to 3 times what they make[tax] for long,the give aways have got to stop

      • DaveH

        The real problem isn’t the method of taxation. The real problem is the Spending. The only truly fair tax and one which would cause every voter to have skin in the game (a good thing) would be a Flat Tax (every adult pays the same for their Government). And you can bet if everybody had the same skin in the game that the size of Government would soon be shrunk dramatically.

        • get right

          DaveH, you are full of it. If the 2/3 of the corporations who don’t pay taxes, paid taxes, if we stopped subsidizing the corporations,if we didn’t allow corporations and individual to hide money in offshore accounts, if we had the tax rate for the rich from 12 years ago, we wouldn’t be in this crisis. Don’t come back with that crap about corporations creating jobs % are small business’ who do pay taxes.

          • DaveH

            Get Right,
            Corporations don’t pay taxes, people do. The corporations, by necessity, when faced with higher taxes, must either raise their product prices, lay off workers, go out of business, or move to another country which doesn’t believe in killing the golden goose.
            Corporate taxes are just another sneaky way for government leaders to grow their power and perks at the rest of our expense. The leaders will use whatever tactics it takes to justify their spending and taxing to the ignorant voters, such as yourself.

          • Jovianus

            Dave H…get back to us when you take a class in economics and business.

          • get right

            DaveH, those same sneaky taxes pay for your protection. You are narrow minded and hopefully you don’t drive on any of those highwys that my taxes paid for, as I would hate for you to be anymore hyprocritical than what you have shown. Repubs and libertarians seem to want the benefits of taxes, but don’t want to pay them. Our forefathers deemed that necessary and paid them, but you seem to think that freedom is free…. http://uncut.org/files/US-Uncut-DC-Fact-Sheet.pdf PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS COUNTRY THAT THE REST OF US LOVE!!!

          • DaveH

            Jovianus,
            I know much more about economics than you do.
            Here are the facts. You can jawbone all you want, but the reality can be seen in this index which ranks countries based on their Economic Freedom (less Government Regulation). You can clearly see that the Bigger Government gets, the weaker the economy gets. Only people feeding at the trough can ignore this dramatic evidence:
            http://heritage.org/index/Ranking

            And Get Right — your ignorant comment deserves no reply.

          • JC

            Damn straight DaveH…get right’s comment is so wrapped in ignorance of basic economics how “could” you respond?

          • get right

            Daveh, we gave them tax cuts for the past 12 years and it didn’t stop the corps from taking jobs out of country. When will you theory work??

      • Dan az

        Before you fo there then you must compare it with flat tax!
        http://mises.org/daily/1814

    • DaveH

      Robert,
      That isn’t a Flat Tax. It is a Flat Rate Tax. A Flat Tax (which I think is the only morally defensible tax) would be each adult paying the same amount for their Government regardless of their income. After all, we supposedly get equal protection under the law, so why shouldn’t everybody pay the same tax?
      You can bet that if everybody paid the same, the voters would be a lot more careful about how much Government we really need.

  • J.M.R.

    what seems to be the problem, fire these people since they have forgotten their paid to go to work. i have worked to 3 unions one was ok the other 2 were a joke. they only took our money and we nothing in return, when we needed them they missing in action like these worthless libs in in. and wi.

  • http://www.diyyardandhome.com Dan

    I have a real problem with teachers morality who take a sick day when they aren’t sick. No wonder teaching morality and right and wrong is something the school system no longer endorses. Instead it’s now all about feelings and self worth.

    I am sick at heart when the tea parties worked hard to elect conservatives and now they are acting like the cuts they propose are something. When the federal budget is 1.6 trillion over what it takes in, they are talking about pocket change. Obama’s proposed cuts don’t even register. It all stinks, there is nothing good about it. I don’t think they care about us or the country.

    • Dennis

      The liberals have a severe case of “HUBS”, that is a case of “Heads up Butt Syndrom.they need to get their head out, stop looking a a brown world and see how things really are for those of us trying to survive and not be a parasite on the tax payers.

    • DaveH

      To put that $1.6 Trillion each year that the Federal Government is spending over their revenues — That is $5000 per person (man, woman, and child) in this country that is being added to our debt each year. Debt that our children, who didn’t even get a chance to vote, will have to repay. Our Government is behaving in an immoral and criminal way.

      • get right

        Easy solution, tax those who are avoiding paying their fair share.

        • DaveH

          No, the best solution would be to lay off those over-paid, under-worked Government Employees whose main task is to harass those productive citizens who are doing the real work.

          • get right

            dAVEh, USING your criteria, nobody does real work.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            get right,
            A friend of mine lost her job at the bank. she applied for and got a job with VA. She was there a couple of months and her boss called her in to cuss her out about working too hard and getting too much work done. now, when she worked for the bank, she had to keep busy and that was what she was used to. The VA would give her one case a day to go overwhich meant 5 cases a week. she would get them done, and look for more work to do in two days. This meant that our disabled troops that were wounded or crippled in combat got their determination sooner than they normally would. her boss called her in a second time and threatened to fire her. she told her that if she tried to fire her she would go public about why she was being fired and that she would name names! She never had another problem with her boss after that! Thus is the working thought process of the government worker!! Do only what you have to to get by!!!! The hell with people that might be depending on you! Katie R. was not like that!! don’t worry about the name she died of a brain tumor and I lost a very good friend!!

        • JC

          “Fair Share”…there’s that communist notion again.
          More Government Control…always the solution for the unimaginative compliant sheep of the world.

          How about a free republic as prescribed in the founding documents of the nation? Too simple for yo?

          • get right

            jc, how about the warning given to us about the banking industry?? Our forefathers knew how wall street thugs would operate and they warned us. However you repubs have done everything possible to protect them and their schemes. Congrats, you helped put this country into the crisis we have now. How proud you must be.

          • JC

            First of all GR, don’t call me a Republican. I’m a Constitutional Libertarian and as far as I’m concerned the Reps and the Dems are two ends of the same problem. Which also puts me at a polar opposite to Union Loving Commies like you. I agree that our banking system is criminal and that it starts and ends with the Federal Reserve, which is not Federal and has no Reserves. Although it does seem to own a lot of politicians who wear both red and blue ties…funny thing isn’t it?
            So you go ahead, wave your hopey changey button and chant yes we can till the cows come home. Some of us are actually interested in restoring the Republic as opposed to sucking the blood out of it.

          • get right

            JC, for a Constitutional Libertarian, you don’t really know the Constitution at all. Unions are the prime example of free speech. Our Constitution allows for people to come together in groups to petition for specific things, or haven’t you heard that?

          • Patty

            Yeh Right, I heard that. Did you hear the voters in November? That is one of the biggest gatherings we have to gather and say our peace. Weren’t you there?

  • http://aol.com sean murrey

    if they worked for me i would hire new people that want to work and fire the the ones that didnt show up for work.

    • JC

      If they worked for me…I’d start by going out in the parking lot and firing every one of them that had an Obama sticker on his car.
      You wanted “Change” – You Got It!

      • get right

        JC. I do have a question for you, how can you believe that government shouldn’t interfer in our lives, yet, you want the government intrusion into womens rights?

  • Eric Stengel

    This is what most people who view the “alphabet soup” TV media and read the “fish wrapper” newspapers should read. Union workers who sleep with the political whores, should not work on behalf of the people. There is no collective bargaining between dirty sex partners whose actions cannot be seen when the door is closed and the lights are out. My bald spot is showing because my hat’s off to Bob Livingston, who is just saying it like it is. This is what should be reported in the lame stream media, but rarely, if ever is.

  • Warrior

    Hey, maybe the unions could step up to the plate and donate their political funds to the state to help with the shortfall. I for one would back that action 100%. Kinda like a rebate to the taxpayers instead of the usual “Kickback” to the dems!

    • eddie47d

      Why should they when it was the union busting Walker who gave generous tax breaks to businesses and those businesses didn’t pan out. Make those businesses cough up the cash for it is in their pockets.

      • DaveH

        So now a person is a Union Buster if he advocates not giving them whatever they damn well please?
        It’s about time that the people wake up and realize that all of us are paying the Unionists exhorbitant salaries in one way or another. If we aren’t paying them directly through taxes, we are paying them by spending more for our goods and services, or by foregoing jobs that would have otherwise been available to those of us who would gladly give the employers a fair days work for their money.
        Every single person that is administering a Union is a person that could have otherwise been doing productive work in a Free Society. Imagine that, more goods and services. It would go a long way towards restoring this country to a robust economy.

      • Dan az

        eddie
        Marty Beil, executive director of American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME )Council 24 SEPAC, made $161,847 in 2008 according to the organization’s Form 990. That’s considerably more than the $144,423 a year Scott Walker makes as Wisconsin’s Governor.
        facts eddie just the facts

        • eddie47d

          What is your real point Dan? Marty Beil is in charge of a national trade group so I’m surprised his salary wasn’t more. Walker is in charge of one State. That could be the difference. Wisconsin has 5.6 million population and my State has a 5 million population and my Governor receives $90,000. So maybe Walker does get paid too much.(actually our Governor probably should get more than that $90,000). My issue is still CEO pay in America and who really says they deserve their outlandish salaries. They are all out of line in % comparisons and not a darn one deserves what they get. Now if you can say a public worker doesn’t deserve what he receives then compare apples to apples in the private sector for the same work.Show examples instead of fear mongering.(yes,do include benefits)

        • get right
      • Dale on the left coast

        As the Bamster said . . . “We Won”!!! Walker will do whatever he likes . . . if you don’t agree . . . win the next election!!!

  • Carlucci

    As the article states “Whether you like it not, changes are coming. The parasites are unhappy. The elites are worried. The collapse is underway.”

    I say let it all collapse. The “system” that is in place now is irretrievably broken. A fresh beginning is way overdue for this nation.

    As for Wisconsin, Governor Walker should fire every one of those worthless “teachers” on strike. I wonder if those dummies know that there are plenty of qualified people out there who are willing to replace them.

    • http://personalliberty.com rolychick

      You’re right. Without having to even think hard, I can name 5 people who live in the Twin Cities who have degrees and would jump at the chance to get a teaching job even with limited collective bargaining. You can add another 3 people to that list who are in training for teaching jobs.

      • DaveH

        Yeah, but are they properly educated in the principles of the indoctrination of our children to worship Big Government?

        • Dan az

          Dave I say we take them out of those schools and home school them think of all the money the state could save.Of course when can abolish the school fees and tax along with it,then we could afford to educate them right.

          • get right

            Danaz, at least you are admitting the real goal of the repubs. They want women to stay home and home school the children. Repubs really don’t like women and think that they take away jobs from the men. Now the truth is coming out.

          • DaveH

            Most women I’ve talked to would rather stay home with the kids. But the Liberals (both Democrat and Republican) are taking so much of our money now (over 40% of GDP) that those women have no choice.

          • DaveH
          • http://?? Joe H.

            get right,
            I have been a conservative since I started voting at 18 years old and I’m 60 now! My wife has 27 years on her job as of next month!! She wants to work, She works!! I don’t control my wife any more than she controls me. We’ve been married for 34 years last Dec!!!

          • JC

            get right says:
            February 28, 2011 at 5:30 pm
            Danaz, at least you are admitting the real goal of the repubs. They want women to stay home and home school the children. Repubs really don’t like women and think that they take away jobs from the men. Now the truth is coming out.

            __________________________________________________________________

            Actually that is a lot of twisted crap from “get right” again.
            Are you suggesting that it is wriong for parents, a mother OR a father to want to raise and teach their own children?
            You’re an advocate of seperating kids from their parents in order to better indoctrinate them as little communist sycophants? In order to be more like “you”?

            Sad sad sad…

          • Lewis Munn

            My wife and I educaated all ways as much as possible, home schooling, parochial schooling, public schooling. And I did back them up when the public Schools tried to hold them back and teach them trash!

            All learned lots more that way; asnd IU think if you asked any of them they would say having the parents directly involved and guiding helped them to be successes sin life later on.

            My parents and my older brother educated me a lot outside of the Public Schools, also, as I was growing up.

            It can be done, though these days it is even more frowned upon to get a good, but nonstandard, education.

  • http://foundersrevolution.blogspot.com/ Patriot1776

    It’s curtains for America

  • patrick

    I WAS an employee of the City of Minneapolis. Let me tell you folks, the Union thing is a HUGE SCAM. When I was hired I always wondered why I was forced to be a Union member and have to pay monthly dues? N I was fired and the Union did NOTHING to save my job, after I paid into the union for years, because i was kinda of a Tea Partier… ahead of the times. When you leave or retire from the City of Minneapolis, your pension is paid for by the taxpayers… you get NOTHING from the Union! It is a huge scam that must be investigated. But now that I’m older and smarter, I realize what the biggest problem is: Minnesota is controlled by Liberal Democrats and Unions. Minnesota is the highest taxed state in the nation. Now the new Liberal democrat Govnor Dayton has intriduced many new bills all calling to raise taxes and add to all the entitlement programs. That just shows why Minnesota is the Land of 10,000 Liberal Democrats. Stay away from Minnesota folks it’s bad. I am leaving as fast as possible I hate this state.

    • Warrior

      So, if one wishes a career in public service, they are “forced” to join a union? Hmmm, sounds sorta perverse. Do individuals not have rights?

      • Bruce D.

        If we lived in a free country government would not be collecting union dues and telling people they can only get a job if the union gives them permission to work.

    • TIME

      Patrick,

      I have SAG and MU cards can’t get work with out them, how sad is that?
      Saddly when I had issues these marvels did nothing.

      So on that note I agree with you 100% all UNIONS need to be closed down.
      We really need to send that Neanderthal Trumka and his butt buddy Stern as well all the other BLOOD SUCKING VAMPIRES somewhere and yet saddly I think hell would really be to good for them.

      • Lastmanstanding

        Amen TIME!!! The unions want those of us EITHER A. with them or B. GONE! (Just look at how violent they are currently and you’ve seen nothing yet!) I’ll let everyone decide what GONE means.

        • eddie47d

          You must be talking about police unions?

          • get right

            eddie,no, they are talking about the entertainment unions who protect their favorite talking heads (limbaugh, oreilly,hannityetc.) from receiving lower wages. What a hoot.

          • Brad

            Eddie47d,

            Have you every heard of Vallejo, CA., it a city north east of S.F. off of I-80. Long story short the city went bankrupt (09) due to collective barginning from the police and fire fighters unions. The unions consummed 75% of the city’s budgit before they could pay any other bills. This is what you are fighting for, I’ll fight you tooth and nail in the opposit direction, UNIONS ARE NO GOOD, THEY NEED BUSTED AND OR OUT-LAWED.

          • eddie47d

            Who says any employee should always get what they ask for? If Vallejo,Ca wasn’t smart enough to rein in outrageous demands then they were poor managers.If a union gets greedy call them to task. If a city or state can’t afford the benefits then bring the employees to task. That is why Wisconsin workers are willing to negotiate downward to help the state out. Unfortunately that is not Walkers true motive and he has been busted on that. All workers depend on the salaries they get and it’s tough giving something up.My retirement check is $120 less than when I retired in Sept. 2009.Ouch!My wife keeps telling me to find a part time job but that would hurt another worker who needs that job more.

          • Dan az

            So eddie when they protested and shut down the police and fire services that was the cities fault,sounds more like union bargining power to me.I was in the union for ten yrs and saw first hand what they are capable of and you know it to.So quit with the crap extortion is the game and they took it to far and are doing it again.when is enough, enough?This is why the right to work state should be invoked now more than ever.

          • Dan az

            Oh by the way eddie you paid your dues and bennys the teachers dont we the tax payers pay it for them and they are not lowering their wages just there benny’s.The more reason we all should be home schooling our kids.And I almost forgot obumer is going after your 401k and ira’s so if you dont think you need to go back to work good luck with that one.

          • Dan az

            Dont forget to look at the proof eddiee!
            http://www.goldworth.com/human_events.html

    • Carlucci

      Come to Texas. Minnesota is too damn cold (literally and figuratively!)

      • get right

        Carlucci, you need to check your own state. Your budget deficit has not been allivated since you did away with collective bargining. Facts for you to think about.

        • Brad

          Then get right the great state of Texas has gotten it right and I stand up and salute them.

          • get right

            Brad, then you can’t read, or comprehend,,, one of the two. Texas is in as much trouble as the rest. Facts are a wonderful thing, if you can read and digest the info.

        • JC

          get right says:
          February 28, 2011 at 12:19 pm
          Carlucci, you need to check your own state. Your budget deficit has not been allivated since you did away with collective bargining. Facts for you to think about.
          _____________________________________________________________________

          Wow!even MORE twisted crap from “get right”.

          As if the two have any correlation whatsoever…not!
          Every state in the country is in the red because all of them are part of the Federal reserve system of inflated funny money.
          Granted, Unions are sucking up more than their “fair share” of what little money is left for infrastructure but you give yourselves way too much credit if you think “collective bargaining” is going to solve any problems.

          • get right

            why do you hate middle class Americans so much?

    • Jovianus

      If what is stated throughout this thread is true…you wre fired and you were a union employee? HA ! Somebody’s not being true …

      • http://?? Joe H.

        jovi,
        I know a few union workers that were fired, don’t ever think it CAN’T happen!!! That’s bull $hit!! Matter of fact, I know one guy that was fired for busting a windshield of a scabs car when he almost hit him on picket!!! they got the cops involved and the guy was gone! The union didn’t try to do anything for him!!! IBEW!!!

    • eddie47d

      patrick;Why would you expect the union to be paying part of your pension? Was that in your contract or were you expecting a little freebie? What were you fired for(the truth now)?

      • Brad

        Hey eddie47d,

        When the unions go pop, who’s going to pay your retirement check, SS, the government?

        • eddie47d

          That is immaterial for they negotiate wages for workers and it is up to the business to accept or reject those wage offers. You are kind of naive in your thinking to believe unions are gods who own the business or even the public sector. Unions also help keep wages fair amongst workers so you don’t have one worker demanding $22 dollars an hour while everyone else gets $18 for the same work.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            i know you wouldn’t agree, but if that guy put out half again as much work, he would be worth the 22 dollars an hour!!!

    • http://personalliberty.com rolychick

      Patrick:

      The height of hypocracy is that Dayton’s family has all their money in banks where? Wait for it… Tax-free South Dakota! If the guy would walk the talk, I might give him some kudos for credibility.

      Also, this guy thinks that someone who makes $100K per year single or $200K per year married are “rich.” OMGoodness!

  • SteveB

    Well written Bob….noone could have said it better.Our country is in for a long hard ride….and whether they like it or not….”everyone’ is going to be on board!

  • JOEL

    IF YOU CAN’T READ THIS THANK A TEACHER.
    IF YOUR CHILDREN CAN’T READ THIS THANK A TEACHER.
    IF YOUR TAXES ARE TO HIGH THANK THE TEACHERS UNIONS.
    IF YOU WANT TO SAVE AMERICA, FIGHT THE TEACHERS AND ALL OTHER LIBERAL LEANING UNIONS….REMEBER 95% OF UNION DONATIONS WENT TO THE LIBERAL SOCIALISTIC UNIONS. THATS HOW OBUMMER GOT ELECTED..

    • Bobber

      Teacher’s unions are nothing more than the propaganda arm of the scumocrat party. Most teachers are liberal degenerates and they quit teaching years ago in favor of practicing liberal mind control on children whose minds have been conditioned to accept lies by the liberal controlled media.

    • Larry Owens

      you hit the democrats & unions right on the head.

      They are a dying breed and lets hope the american
      people have seen & heard enough of their BS.

      • bob wire

        I’m beginning to believe that it is Americans that are the dying bleed.

        Maybe unions have out lived themselves, but who’s to say? Maybe Americans have out lived an old way of thinking, an old way of life?

        They want others to change while they choose to stay the same!

        There is many forms of revolution, they don’t have to be bloody but do require “change” ~~ That what “O” promise you and that’s what we are getting.

        Okay, we shake up the center and then we mix it up with the top? Or are we to just stop with a center shake up and let the top enjoy status quo?

    • get right

      Joel, unless you were home schooled, then you need to THANK A TEACHER.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        get right,
        I suggest you look up the difference between thirty years ago and now as to our world standing in education!!! At one time we were the highest educated nation in the world! We are now something like 17th in science(?) and even worse in engineering

    • nickwolf

      Thats right…lower education, demean the Firemen, put poor children in ghetto unfunded schools, build debtors prisons, make 2500 laws with the death penalty attached…….oh! I forgot ….they did that in England….thats why we came here!

      Tea Party Dupes….you are selling your future to the Kings lobbyists…..and you think it will help you? The minute America gets wealthy again….they will start stealing again! Only this time it will be harder and harder to stop them! Because they will have tipped the “balance of power” Nobody ….. I repeat Nobody is in jail for the Wall St. and Banks Con! and you want to make teachers pay off the short fall created by the Con men…..and not raise taxes on the thieves? NEWS FLASH “RONALD REAGAN RAISED TAXES ON THE RICH”! HE SPENT TO GET OUT OF HIS RECESSION!….THESE ARE FACTS! Your social issues are not worth the destruction of America….besides you can pass all the morality laws you want…America is not going back to Biblical Ages!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        nickwolf,
        check out my post directly above yours! It was alreadt happening a long time ago!!! The education standards in this country are abhorrent!!!

        • get right

          yes, they are. But the solution is not to cut funding, it is to raise standards, change the requirements to graduate, and to make every state meet minimum standards. Kids in the south have lower ACT, SAT scores than the northern schools. Why is that? Do you think that China, Asia, and the European countries have different standards for different districts, or cities? Of course not. Cut military spending and provide for our future….education for the kids.

    • nickwolf

      By Liberals, do you mean M.I.T., Silicon Valley, Cal Tech, JPL etc etc? The driving force for new industries in America have always come from liberal progressives. Science and Math are discouraged in Religions…because it shows they are probably “man made”! The Liberals pay the taxes for the Christian States. They pay more than they receive back, while, most Southern States receive more Tax dollars than they pay in….that makes most Republican States …… moochers! Unable to pay their own bills! Welfare recipients of the Liberal Progressive States. I don’t know why we pay for your Mega Churches to be Tax Free havens for Sharlitan Con Men! Who in all these years and millions of claimed miracles ….never….had one verified miracle among all of their claims! …. not one! but, their has been thousands of rebuked and proven frauds. Balance the Budget, tax the Church frauds….at least the teachers supply facts the ministers supply proven lies. Every year more and more is disproven. i.e. The Exodus never happened….proven fact!
      Suceed…..please…..I’m tired of paying your handouts!

      Throw away your cell phones, computers, flat screen T.V.’s, Weapons systems, Medical breakthroughs and all the Liberal progressive intelligent peoples hard work……throw it away and live in a cave with your bible……see if your Televangelist will pay your bills….see if Pat Roberts will give any of his wealth away like a good Christian should…..like Liberal Progressives do every day! Enough of this millarky already!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        nickwolf,
        bull$hit!!! the education standard in this country 50 years ago were higher than they are now!! Christian churches were more widely spread in this country at that time as well! That right there kinda blows your failure in theory out of the water!! There were, I might add, Fewer teen pregnancies at that time as well!! you need to stop pulling your talking points out of your lower backside!!!

      • get right

        Nickwolf, Alaska receives $5.76 for every dollar the send in. Talk about socialism…Palin and her crew don’t mention that every citizen in Alaska starts the year with $23,000 from their state government, regardless of their age. If you can’t survive in Alaska without my money, get the hell out of that state and move somewhere else.

  • chicken soup

    its a amazing if obama is for unions why dont he unionize people under social security.and collective bargining.We havent had a raise in three years????????????.but i guess he rather see us starve and die and disappear.so he can give more money to the unions so he gets his votes

    • DaveH

      Right on point, Soup. It is all about Vote buying. People need to wake up to the insidious nature of Big Government. They aren’t there to help the people. They are their to help themselves. Most of what they do and promise is solely to get re-elected to their positions of power and perks. If they really cared about the people, they would quit robbing our country blind, and they would quit interfering with the productivity of the people who are doing the real work.

      • get right

        DaveH, just what is the “real work”? I guess police, fireman, county workers, state workers, electricians, plumbers, construction workers, teachers, nurses, manufacturing workers, steel workers, miners, and all those fox employees are not doing real work? You are too funny.

        • DaveH

          You’re not funny at all.
          All of those sectors mentioned above (those that are performed by government) would cost less, be more productive, and treat their customers more politely if performed by private sector companies. Private companies who would provide services to those who want them and be paid only by those same people (the customers). Government is force. They take money from those who aren’t interested in certain services and use that money to provide services for those who are. I would much rather have a society where people voluntarily pay for only those services which they desire.
          Only those who want to take advantage of others insist on using the power of Government to accomplish that.

          • get right

            DaveH, if they gave you the option to pay the taxes you wanted too, which would you pick?? Certainly not the highway,which I am sure you use just like the rest of us. This country was founded on the premise of providing for the majority, with everybody paying a portion. Guess you have forgotten that part of history. Our first public school in this country had the rich paying for their children, while the poor didn’t have too. Get in the game, or get out of this country. Your choice.

          • Carlucci

            The highways are paid for from duty, import, and excise taxes. DaveH pays those taxes when he buys gasoline, and other select items.

          • DaveH

            As usual, a manipulative reply complete with fabricated facts from the Liberal Get Right.

          • get right

            Little hard to chose what services you want when the majority are controlled by insurance monopolies, utility monopolies, cable monopolies, what world are you really living in? Do you really get to pick which electric company you use? You are a hoot.

  • http://www.jolsonbaldwin.com CLIVE BALDWIN

    In this column we tell it like it is and Wisconsin is how it is and will be hence. The physical clash between the parasites and the remaining patriots is at hand.
    TWO TIM THREE
    Read on now incline your thoughts to bible prophecy, and what it’s saying to us in second Timothy chapter three.
    It claims that in these last days there shall be perilous times, which means that we shall live to see unprecedented crimes.
    It is the baby boomers that St Paul’s referring to, the things they did at Woodstock prove his prophecy came true.
    These children of the new age are licentious and perverse and because they have no ethics their children will get worse.
    And yes there are some good ones but they are very few. Their horror cannot change things no matter what they do.
    Unthankful and unholy and inclined to disobey; when someone tries to guide youths they will turn the other way.
    Traitors, fierce, blasphemers, who despise those that are good, we meet these kinds of children now, St Paul said that we would.
    They’ll kill you for your sneakers shooting guns as they drive by; and the Whitehouse is an outhouse where politicians lie.
    And Sodom and Gomorrah is back in style again where women sleep with women and men make love with men.
    That’s what St. Paul’s has told us in his note to Timothy; we have lived to see it happen in the 21st century.

    ©Clive Baldwin. September 1, 2001

  • Andrea

    A unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies. looks at the tea partier and says, “watch out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie.

    • Bobber

      No – this is how it goes: The CEO did all the work and took all the risks to get the ingredients together and then did all the work and took all the risks to build the facilities to bake the cookies. The union slug took twice as long to bake the cookies as he should have, stole half of them as they came out of the oven, used part of his pay to support the democrats who wanted to steal the other half of them and use them to buy votes from welfare scum, and then threatened to kill the Tea Partier if he tried to put an end to union corruption.

      • Lastmanstanding

        Bobber you are being kind.

      • Andrea

        The CEO:

        Raised in high comfort, schooled in private fashion, both compliments of his wealthy parents and the trust fund;

        Pays employees only what he can get away with;

        Ravages resources without paying the full economic cost of their extraction and disposal;

        Owes and pays allegiance only to controlling shareholders;

        Makes short-term ruinous profit decisions to get his bloated bonuses;

        Risks profit he garnered from the backs of labor and resource raping;

        Has no legal or moral commitment to better the country;

        Takes immoral shortcuts (think BP) wherever possible because he pays for the laws allowing them

        A new non-profit model (in the Mayo vein) and public-good-betterment corporate charter requirements might make a moral being out of the CEO. It’s a tragic mistake to equate Average Joe’s tax pain with CEO Rollinginit’s tax pain.

        • Jovianus

          Good one Andrea !

        • bob wire

          Well Andrea, this does represent many CEO’s for sure, but not all!

          That seems to be just one of the problems we face in this “transitional” phase.

          The ability to identify and separate the good from the bad.

          There is no bench mark or yard stick beside “profits” or “gains” and the ambiguity of an identity with only a name and no real face or single address.

        • s c

          What you’ve described is more like a union worker than a CEO, A. Do you know the difference between a ‘typical’ CEO and a union worker? Do you care?
          While you’re busy whizzing up your tree (you’re going to get wet, bubette), kindly remember that if someone is being paid to WORK but finds reasons NOT to work, YOU work for that SOB. That SOB is supposed to work for YOU. Where did you get those low standards? Is Gore one of your role models? Do you pray to saul alinsky?
          Use your head. Your logic is bassackwards. Touch-feely doesn’t get the job done. And neither do people like you, A. You’ve been programmed. I suspect your middle name is Pavlovia. Woof!

        • http://personalliberty.com rolychick

          You listen to too many liberal hacks. Once again, they’re putting class warfare in your head. My husband has worked his A$$ off going through law school. We as a family have sacrificed a lot…our finances, our free time, taxing of our relationship, our health. He has fought the glass ceiling for 20 years in his job, as he is considered a minority, and he has avoided being a Yes man because he wants to do things to make his company profitable and wants to sleep at night. Now we are hopeful that his time is finally coming, but not without $200k loans to pay off, with more gray hair on his and my head. Now we are “greedy.”

          Please open your mind to ALL media outlets and try to figure out what their motivations are. Then analyze their information in regards to their motivations. This is something that I have instilled into my 3 children while they were in public school as well as when I homeschooled them. There aren’t many public school teachers who will do that.

        • Bobber

          Union Member: Raised by genetically defective parents to believe that the world owes him a lot of money for doing very little work. Education: By incompetant union teachers with the result that he is totally ignorant. Pastimes: substance abuse, watching pornography, holding down barstools, intimidating honest working people. Goals: To win the lottery or go on disability so he doesn’t have to get out of bed in the morning. Value to society: Less than zero.

          • bob wire

            This stereotyping is only your perception and says more about you then anyone you attempt to describe. ~ I find you’re posting funny while I’m left to think it was some feeble attempt to be serious.

            Over-kill is something that government is most noted for, killing ants with a hammer. Are you considering running for office as you seemed to miss you calling in comedy.

        • DaveH

          Pool your money with the other like-minded Liberals, Andrea, and start your own companies.
          What’s that? It’s nearly impossible to compete against the Crony Capitalists who are being defended by favorable subsidies, regulations, and licensing? I wonder who created those anti-competitive conditions? It wouldn’t be the blindered Liberal followers, would it?
          If you truly believe there are those corporate officers who are being unfair, then get Government out of the picture. Give the power back to the consumers. If you don’t like their products, don’t buy them. If you don’t like their work conditions, don’t work for them.
          As Government Grows, Corruption Flows.
          For Individual Liberty, Personal Responsibility, Free Markets, and Limited Government — Vote Libertarian. Let’s stop this ever-growing Big Government Leviathan:
          http://libertarianparty.org/platform

          • get right

            Great idea, will you vote to subsidze them like we do the top corporations?? How about letting them pay no taxes like the rest of the 2/3 who don’t presently pay?? You for that too? Then you need to agree to bail them out when they fail, like the Wall Street crew of thiefs. Same treatment for all right?? Hey everybody Dave wants to underwrite you business ventures, hurry up and start up those business’.

          • DaveH

            I have not said I’m for Government subsidization of businesses. The Government should butt out of the Market Place.
            I see, Get Right, that you are a typical Liberal who can’t carry on a debate without using manipulative tactics such as ridicule, name-calling, condescension, or putting words in peoples’ mouths.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            get right,
            Don’t forget, with a super majority, Nobummer did nothing to stop the bail out of GM and Chrysler, so he is just as guilty as bush!! bush was an a$$hole, but Nobummer is an a$$hole on steroids!!! GET it Right!!!

    • Ted Crawford

      Andrea; Here is a simple example of the differences in philosphies.
      A group of progressives are lead into a room containing a table with a meal laid out on it, They turn to one another and say ” That’s not much food! We’de better get what we can before the others get here!”
      Same room, same meal this time it’s a group of conservatives lead in. They turn to one another and say “that’s not much food! We better get some more before the others get here”

    • Patriot

      In this case the debate is over Public Sector Unions, if there is no CEO’s who are we protecting the workers from? The People?

    • Bruce D.

      In this case Andrea there are no CEOs. All the cookies are coming from the taxpayer and they are getting very little in return concerning the educatiion of our children.

      • eddie47d

        Thanks Andrea; Don’t let them get you down. They will slam unions 24/7 yet turn a blind eye to the corporate thievery that has been going on. Their integrity is -10 and digging downwards. Corporate thuggery (Koch’s for one)is way ahead of union “thuggery”. The white collar criminal sits behind a desk in their suits and ties and make fools out of all Americans. If the anti-union folks spent half their time cooking corporate crooks instead of frying hard working union members this country wouldn’t have near this debt or recession.

        • DaveH

          Your logic is weak, Eddie.
          The Company owners are simply trying to spend their money the way they want to spend it. On the other hand, we have the Unionists who want to use coercion and force to take those company owners’ money away. It is pretty clear who the real Criminals are.

          • get right

            Yep, you are an example of government greed. Didn’t you go to college on scholarships?? Prime example of government at it’s finest. Have you offered to pay us back for that “free money”? Nope didn’t think so. You got what you needed, and now you don’t want anyone else to receive the same benefits…

          • DaveH

            What are you talking about, Get Right?
            You are just making things up now. Why does that not surprise me?

          • JeffH

            DaveH, get right is an old nemisis now blogging under a different name. Likes to keep it personal and twists the facts to no end.

          • eddie47d

            Who is this old nemesis Jeff? He was asking Dave if he ever used scholarship money. Dave could have gave an answer more suitable instead of being so confused.

          • JeffH

            eddie, go act stupid somewhere else…bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, bzzzzzzzzzzzz!

          • Bruce D.

            ‘get right’ sounds a lot like ‘dogma free’.

          • libertytrain

            JeffH – I think you’re right but my eyes weren’t open to see it. You are so smart. I’m getting old.

          • DaveH

            Get Right’s nonsensical comment deserves no reply, Eddie. There is no doubt in my mind that I have contributed more to this society than you Liberals have. If I could expect honesty from you guys, I might consider debating such personal issues. But I can’t, so bug off.

          • DaveH

            So, let’s analyze this quandry. The Liberals are advocating for Unionists and Big Government who take the money of others, and I advocate for voluntary agreements and Free Markets. And they ask me if I’m a taker? Are they for real? Unbelievable.

          • get right

            DaveH, last year you stated that you went to college in Texas on scholarships.You also revealed that you had an autoimmune disease which prevents you from working at times. It was around the same time that you stated your exwife wiped you out fiscally and she was a dem. You admitted that about the same time that,Jeff,admitted that he was on disability and living with friends. Ironic that both of you participated in government hand outs while slaming those who need the same kind of assistance. Now both of you are lying. The printed word will always come back to haunt you.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Bruce D
            think you are right!! He does sound like doggie Deux!!!!!

          • JeffH

            Joe, not even close to the Dog, way before that…at least two years back.

            “It” said “You admitted that about the same time that,Jeff,admitted that he was on disability and living with friends.”

            Being disabled doesn’t mean you’re on the “gov’ment dole” although you liberals wish it were true. I’ve never lived with “friends” and never said I did live with friends.
            Two lies don’t make a right!

          • libertytrain

            Jeff “eyes” have a way of fooling us when we read and we do not always read what is before our “eyes.”

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, the jury is still out on that one even though personal attacks were one of her identifying marks.

          • libertytrain

            JeffH – not for me, I believe “she’s back.”

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, after further review and comments posted on other threads…I think you’re right…I was looking for indicators, and have finally seen the light, especially how she’s going after DaveH…always a favorite target for her. The giveaway I think is that there is a question in every comment from her…can’t hide from that one. Good teamwork! LOL!

          • libertytrain

            Hey, it caught your “eye” first, I just followed and read a certain familiarity. Good teamwork is correct. :)

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JeffH,
            Perhaps you are right about eyes. I KNOW you are right about being disabled! I’m disabled, 4 pins and screws along with three bulging discs in my lower back and bulging discs at c-5 thru c-7. Had surgery there as well! I haven’t collected a cent in disability even though the state Dr. said he would guarantee it for me!! I work every day. whether it is cleaning, cooking, welding, carpentry, or home repair!! Seven years ago, I hung 115 sheets of drywall in our addition! took me awhile, as I had to stop and sit for a few at times, but I got it done! I refuse to pay someone to do something I can do!!

  • Polski

    What a bunch of BS! Our CEO makes $16 million above table. Who knows what he gets under the table. No union members get anything at all compared to corporate executives and politicians. UNIONS ARE NEEDED BY THE MAJORITY NOW MORE THAN EVER BEFORE!! You want a good example of a non-union operation, THEN LOOK AT TOYOTA!!

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Polski… If unions are needed by the majority, what about the minority?

      • bob wire

        point taken! A minority is not to be ignored for simply being a minority. The Third Reich was supported by only 30% of the German people when they came to power.

    • Ted Crawford

      Polski, The CEOs aren’t paid by the taxpayers! If you believe that a companys’ CEOS are being paid too much, then do not buy their goods or services! The taxpayer doesn’t have that option with the public sector unions!

      • Bruce D.

        Good point. The CEO of Paycheck said he was paying $13,500 a day in New York State income tax. That is $4,927,500 dollars in sate income tax in one year alone. He said when New York State raised his taxes last year he had enough and moved to Florida where there is no state income tax. I don’t blame him at all for leaving. It gets to the point where government just gets too greedy and people have to make adjustments.

      • bob wire

        in some cases of late, CEO’s have been paid with tax dollars Sir.

      • get right

        Ted, you can’t not pay for services, as you will have no electric, water. Those are monopolies that are in place, and you can’t avoid using them.

    • Bobber

      The fact that your CEO is overpaid does not justify overpaying a bunch a useless union drones who use their union dues to support the democrats and aid them in their plan to destroy the USA.

    • http://yahoo jowolo

      I have looked at Toyota, and will buy one the next time I need a new vehicle, damn sure wont be a union-made vehicle.

      • Dale on the left coast

        Union Made??? All Toyotas from Japan are UNION MADE, All Toyotas from Canada are UNION MADE . . . plus Toyotas and Lexus are the MOST RECALLED OF 2004 and Newer Vehicles . . . over 20 Million and still counting . . . Toyotas SUCK!!! All the rest of the manufacturers added together (2004 and newer vehicle recalls) do not add up to Toyotas Total.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Dale,
          My next car will be a Ford, as they are the only US company that refused my money without giving me something in return!! GM and Chrysler took my tax money and gave me nothing in return!!!

          • JC

            Joe, I solg my Silverado and bought my first brand new F-150 when Bush started the bail outs. I’m on my third new F-150 now and I really like them. Next one will be an F-250 or 350 to go with the privately (non-union) built RV Trailer I have recently acquired.
            I supoort FREE Enterprise…not Government in Business, and not Union Sloths.

    • Patriot

      See my above post, stick with the argument; we are debating Public Sector Unions, why do we have them? Who are the CEO’s? Stick with the topic!

    • Lastmanstanding

      Polski, if you are a union member you have taken zero risk. If you stood by yourself and had a set, you have the op to make as much as the CEO in the USA. Instead you chose to hide in a crowd of scared sheep for a promise of something that will never be delivered to you…FOR YOUR VOTE!!!

      • Patty

        Ditto

    • TIME

      Pol,

      Yes lets look at Toyota, a company that makes a top quality product, that it seems some Idiots can’t graps that if they shove their carpets under the gas pedal that the gas pedal may not work well.
      Yea thats some real rocket science for sure.

      Toyota is also company that Makes a profit, Now wait lets compare that with say GM a company that is under “heavy UNION control” and well has not made a profit in so long that the word had to be looked up by the CEO.
      Who was in fact over paid and had no clue how to run a business but the facts come straight back to he would never have gotten the job if the UNION didn’t agree to allow him to have the job.

      Oh yea Unions are just so GOOD in your opinion, again why is that?
      Can you point out one good think the UNIONS have done in say the last 40 years? Just one thing – thats all you need to supply just one single good thing that has aided mankind?
      Please do go ahead tell us all about it.

      Oh please do tell us all about it we all await your intellectul responce.

      • Dale on the left coast

        Over 20 Million Recalls since 2004 . . . and you call that Quality??? Toyotas are junk . . . the profits go to Japan.
        Car company unions are negotiating with private business.

        Public Sector Unions are sucking States, Cities and Counties dry . . . because their dues fund Demmicrap politicians and then negotiate with them.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Dale, I suggest you check to see which car company has the most US made parts, is assembled, and sold HERE!!! Give UP??? Honda!!!! And theres another comming up as well! The US car companies have all been RAPED of their ability to compete!!

    • DaveH

      Look at Toyota? Are their workers being forced to work for them? Of course not.
      The only force I see comes from Union Goons and their Big Government enablers.

      • eddie47d

        More name calling from the guy who “never” calls people names.

        • DaveH

          Show me a single comment where I ever said such, Eddie.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            DaveH,
            The only thing I ever saw you post on that was that you return what you receive!!!

      • JC

        I think it’s important to label things correctly DaveH, good job.

  • s c

    When you say Obummer, Rev. Jesse and Pelosi, say wannabe “elite” in the same breath. People have incredibly LOW standards for the slime they elect. Fortunately, Rev. Jesse can’t get elected, or life would be even more complex than it is.
    This is what we get when we let ourselves believe that “leaders” don’t need any standards for their own conduct. This is what we get when SOME people have protected status. This is what we get when SOME people don’t have to WORK. This is what we get when SOME people think they can do what they want
    when THEY feel like it.
    What the losers in the White House and Congress are telling us is that WE work for THEM. They DO NOT work for us. FIRE those “teachers.” Humiliate EVERY state legislator who refuses to his or her job. Imprison MDs who write illegal and immoral “excuses” for wannabe ‘teachers’ who think they can teach someone when they’re NOT in the classrooms. DO IT!
    Either those SOBs work for us, or America is finished. MAKE ANERICA WORK!

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      sc… Gov. Walker needs to stand his ground. If he doesn’t, the rest of the states will not have a leg to stand on! Maybe they all need pink slips, like Providence, RI did. Then pick out those who are the cream of the crop and are willing to work without a union. The rest can look elsewhere.

      • bob wire

        It appears that he is! Nice hair dye job! It would be believable if it wasn’t for all that missing hair on the back of his head.

        LOL! I don’t trust “manly” acting men that dye their hair. Being a man shouldn’t be part of an act or illusion.

        It’s a sign of insecurity and vanity ~ hey! what little I have is gray, I got over losing it, I am just a man and accept all my parts or absence of them.

        He thinks that he is Reagan! Much like many think “O” wants to be seen as Lincoln.

        One thing is for sure, he’s a player and has lite a fire. Great show, but he’s not to be trusted with money or your wife.

        • Bruce D.

          Bob his looks and what he does to his hair has nothing to do with it. That is really desperate on your part to bring that into the conversation.

          • bob wire

            Sorry, the far radical Right Wing was coming out in me for a second is all!

            My apologies! ~ I still think that he needs to get off the bottle and become a big boy if he plans to stand among grown men.

          • get right

            Bruce, if the idiot hadn’t cut the tax base for the rich in his state, he wouldn’t have this problem. Economics 101 teaches you, when you give tax breaks to the corporations and the highest wage earners, you have no revenue!!!! Walker wants to make up the difference on the middle class backs…which is usual for the repubs.

          • Bruce D.

            In Florida teachers pay comes from home owners property tax. The norther states are losing businesses to the south because of high taxes and regulation. What do not not get about that?

          • bob wire

            Well Hmm? ~ Perhaps you could tell us what Gov, Walker bought with these 140 million dollars worth of tax cuts for if buddies?

            Campaign contributions, a Christmas Card and VP status at the Chamber or Commerce Annual Christmas Party?

    • Larry Owens

      Sad but True our elected leaders think they are not accountable to the people. They just keep ignoring us like we are stupid, (maybe we are) for letting them to continue to bankrupt our country.

  • Ted Crawford

    Anyone remember Ross Perot? In 1992 Perot made a simple statement that went unheeded. He said “We didn’t get into this trouble overnight, we will not get out overnight, and if we are to get out we will ALL have to bleed”! The public sector unions want everyone else to bleed, but they feel they should be exempt!

    • bob wire

      I would agree with you if it wasn’t for the fact wages and pension fund concessions have been agreed to and in so doing nullify your statement regarding them being seen as greedy, unmoving , calloused and indifferent.

      Or do you still see it differently?

      • Bruce D.

        The taxpayers need to be able to fire incompetent teachers and that is the bottom line with collective bargaining. If we cannot the educational system will never improve.

        • bob wire

          I believe that they can with a believable argument that is defensible.

          • Bruce D.

            It takes years and it is very expensive to fire teachers.

          • LES

            They have had years to do it and things have only gone downhill. We now spend more than any other country in the world per student and fall way behind in every category.

          • bob wire

            Forgive me , but I have this strong desire to lay this “lacking” on parents and the family environment.

            I was brought up in this “lacking of family support” as well. ~ I see it as the single most powerful influence in a child life and the desire to excel.

            Would you disagree?

          • Bruce D.

            I would not disagree with that Bob but teachers are getting paid to influence kids in a positive way, not teach them socialism. When we were growing up Bob most parents had a hands off approach to raising children. What you did in school was your business. When you were at home they taught you a work ethic. Few parents are perfect or even close to it when raising a child. It is the norm.

          • get right

            Bruce, just because the teachers are teaching history, doesn’t mean they are trying to make liberals out of every child. Facts are facts. Even though the repubs are trying to rewrite it, the facts don’t change.

          • JC

            Get right…that’s crap!
            They don’t teach anything even remotely like history.
            They don’t teach truth at all…just indoctrination in order to make them compliant tax payers.

  • http://n/a John Beach

    Either we “bite the bullet” now or our children and grand children will face the bullets of foreign creditors long after we are gone, giving new meaning to the “sins of the fathers being passed down to the children, to the third and fourth generations.” The freedom to choose now will mean the freedom to choose later. Not to confront the obligations now will mean that there is little freedom later.

  • Marv

    I contend that “Bob Livingston” is nothing more than fiction…not a real person. He exists nowhere but on this website.

    Who is Bob Livingston?

    Bob is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter for 41 years. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs as well as issues of privacy (both personal & financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

    Your Health: Between age thirty-eight and age forty, Bob had four heart attacks. He decided that taking double handfuls of prescription drugs was far worse than heart disease. He was sure that he did not have a drug deficiency. This led Bob to a serious search for health. His suspicions of government and politics carried over into so-called orthodox medicine. He has concluded that today, organized medicine is literally a killing machine.

    Well, Bob never had the surgery his doctors strongly advised 36 years ago. All three surgeons who said he would die without the surgery have since died. Bob, however, is healthier than he has ever been!

    Thirty-nine years of research study in health and nutrition qualifies Bob as a nutritional expert. He literally has volumes of information to share with his readers. Bob believes that the credibility of the medical establishment is eroding quickly and will soon collapse. As this transition evolves, natural alternatives for health and nutrition will be vital for your survival!

    Bob is convinced that most health problems are simple and usually directly related to nutritional deficiencies. Bob will tell you the problems and will always suggest solutions.

    Privacy & Asset Protection: Asset protection is almost extinct in America today. Modern computer technology records not only all of your financial assets, but most of your daily transactions. Every penny we have is at risk. We live in a financial glass house. Everything is at risk from government taxes, abusive and frivolous lawsuits, judgment creditors, and more and more asset forfeiture actions from government at all levels.

    Instead, you can take advantage of secret health and investment strategies—long used by the wealthy, but CENSORED by the government—to legally avoid improper government surveillance… build your wealth no matter what the stock market does… and achieve a level of wealth you never dreamed possible.

    Bob concludes that quality of life in America can come only through personal responsibility in matters of health and financial survival. The search for information carries Bob all over the world. By subscribing to his newsletter you will benefit from a lifetime of research that continues today. Don’t miss this opportunity. Subscribe Today!

    THE BOB LIVINGSTON LETTER wants to help you…

    FORGET the threat of heart disease and stroke… and uncover the alternative therapies your doctors, the drug companies and the medical establishment don’t want you to know about…

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    INCREASE the number of years you live healthy and free of illness, plus help you create…

    A RICH STOREHOUSE OF HEALTH & WEALTH YOU CAN DEPEND ON…NO MATTER WHAT HEALTH CRISIS OR FINANCIAL CHAOS COMES YOUR WAY!

    FOR OVER 30 YEARS we’ve helped thousands of people of all ages solve nearly every health challenge including heart disease, obesity and cancer—even after doctors have given up trying…

    FOR OVER 30 YEARS, we’ve helped people from every economic strata to protect their assets and grow them safely and securely without losing one night’s sleep…

    Like no other newsletter you’ll ever find, THE BOB LIVINGSTON LETTER is dedicated to increasing your independence from today’s medical and financial brokers who do not have your health & wealth at stake.This newsletter exists for one purpose: To put you (not the medical or financial establishments) in 100% control of your health & wealth beyond your wildest dreams… for life!

    Bob Livingston Signature

    Bob Livingston
    Editor

    • Larry Owens

      Are you attacking the messenger, a good liberal/socialist way, trying to draw attention away from the Real problems.

      • JeffH

        Larry, that’s all they have.

        • bob wire

          perhaps, but some of us have much more! So it’s a far cry from all “they’ve got”

          I don’t use it, I see no need, the facts and current events works nicely.

          • JeffH

            You might want to check your diaper bobby, something stinks.

      • libertytrain

        When I read that kind of statement from people like marv, it always wreaks of envy –

        • JeffH

          libertytrain, it seems the’re sending in the special forces…BUT…still the same-o, same-o…personal attacks on Bob Livingston are nothing new around here…why there are still those who actually believe he once was a senator…the horror of it all. LOL!

          • libertytrain

            Jeff, I noticed a few personal attacks aimed at Mr. Livingston today and he must be one class act. On other sites these type of attacks would be removed but he apparently is aware they are just fools trying to disrupt and will be viewed as same by his readers. Works for me – just jealous fools is exactly what these types of posters come across as. That basement office in the WH has been busy today.

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, It’s very apparent tha Bob won’t allow himself to get caught up in these snippits directed at him and this website. He obviously believes in free speech. Let them hang themselves I say.

    • JR

      It is a pseudonym, unfortunately, if you read the biography of the real Bob Livingston he was quite a scum bucket. He was a ex republican senator, who turned lobbyist and supported the genocide in Turkey.
      He had an affair but of course this never mattered to his constituency.
      Although our Bob Livingston is a coward for hiding behind a pseudonym ( maybe he is Obama writing articles to incite the right? Nahhh :=), he does provide an important service to the community besides thinly veiled advertisements for books, snake oil medicine, and gold masquerading as legitimate political articles.
      He gives the community a way to vent they’re frustrations and that is a very important service.

      • Angel

        You mean vent their hate?

        • Marv

          Exactly. And he presents himself as a real person to try to sell his Gold, God and Guns. If he was trying to get folks to buy a fruit cellar…I might think he was Glenn Beck!

      • JC

        I don’t blame him for using a nom de plume, some nut like the one in Arizona with an Obama sticker on his car might try and kill him for being an advocate of the Constitution, sound money, property rights and the right to self defense….and other things that the LibComs have “deemed” immoral.

  • karolyn

    It’s all BS. The workers have compromised on financial issues. They just want to keep the collective bargaining option. So what’s the big deal?

  • Raggs

    The democraps want a civil war…

    • Jovianus

      Bring it. Better than to live in slavery as you’d want.

    • Cawmun Cents

      Exactly the point I have been trying to make for years on this thread.They act as if they are willing to fight,because in their heads they believe it.But if you confront them they will not stand and trade blows or bullets with you.
      They will act as if it is their government that will protect them,these progressive liberals.They think the United States is their little playground now.They are in for a rude awakening when God takes back what is His and leaves them standing in awe of His power.When that day comes,it is likely that I will not be here to see it,but I wish I could be there if only to see the look on their faces.The look that says,”How can I have been so wrong about what I thought was the truth.”But for them it will sadly be too late.Then the Judgement that they refused to believe would ever occur will be all that is left for them.There are only two kinds of people here on earth.Those who will say to God,”Your will be done,”and those to whom God will say,”your will be done”.

  • DaveH

    Interesting, isn’t it, how the teachers, who claim it is all about the education of our children, have no problem at all with depriving those same children of an education when it comes to the teachers’ selfish interests?
    We need to work hard to pass voucher systems around the country so that the parents have the power to send their children to the schools of their choice.

  • bob wire

    Mr. Livingston offers; “Public sector workers’ salaries come exclusively from taxpayers. Public sector workers’ salaries are used to pay union dues. Unions use those dues to campaign for Democrats who then raise the salaries and increase the benefits of public sector workers.

    In other words, if you are taxpayer you have contributed money to support Democrat candidates and Democrat initiatives whether you agreed with those candidates and initiatives or not”

    A Valid Point Mr. Livingston! I too, see some impropriety there. Much like my tax dollars being used to subsidize someone else health care coverage while I, myself am being denied any health care coverage for a host of reasons, “not to mention” this will continue if you and your followers have their way.

    And of course, ~ just because this has been going on for a long time doesn’t mean it’s can or should continue , does it?

    So is appears, if you are to have your way, the final refuge for the incompetent is coming to a close? We might only hope it’s true!

    That this shake up is more of a means to drive a stake through the heart of the DNC campaign funding as it only has one main contributor while leaves the RNC with six huge campaign contributors like the House of Commerce makes it a real game changer and much more then just an attempt to balancing an states budget.

    While this might all be fine and good with me in many ways I’m failing to understand where I might gain something with these attacks on the middle class that I happen to be a part of. ~ I see less customers, less people to carry the load. If this does come to be and the DNC fails to restructure it’s campaign financing to compete, worthy opposition will cease to be a part of the American political structure and we might as well install a KING and forget all these notions of a democracy.

    Is my taxes going to drop? Is civil services to be cut to where I can’t leave the house and go anywhere without being pinched by a panhandler on very corner. Is the other members of my family going to fare well or will they come to move in with me? Is what little equity I have accumulated over a lifetime of being thrifty and making do, to be drained off 15 years before my final demise?

    It was not so much that the states spent like drunk sailors but the economy dried up from a 11 year war that brought in “NO BOOTY”, no bounty, with only the few wealthy profiting in the process. It’s true, they should have backed off the spending like everyone else had to do, but they didn’t!

    We have been taking houses and property away from those Americans that have came up short is this process of decline. Maybe the state should be subjected to the same? Sale it off and accept their fate like big boys and girls. ~ I want to see some serious “sale off” and “down sizing” if I am to ask my middle class brothers and sisters to make concessions. I don’t think that’s too much to ask of state government.

    Don’t let me think that the middle class citizens in this country are the only ones being asked to “pony up”.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Bob,
      how much “booty” would have been brought in had the progressive “greenies” not fought drilling every time you turned your head??? Had they let them drill more oil wells, in fact, there might be a lot lower deficit, as well!! See, I can play what if, too!!

  • http://Yahoo Rob

    Step one of “Derailing the Grary Train”……
    NOW!!! Step TWO…”Derailing the Gravy Train” for “ILLEGALS”….
    When will the States address the $Millions($Billions) spent on freebies for “ILLEGALS”. Don’t tell me that this is a different subject, we are talking about States that are broke, high unemployment, etc. and free money and benefits are STILL being given away. What politician, What State is going to hit this issue head on…..???

  • http://Safari John Flath

    What a bunch of pure BS. I don’t care much about the teachers in this country too much and I believe they must give back. However, this is not the issue at all. this is about human rights. And this is about treating people with dignity and respect, weather they are union or not. After their cuts , than comes the cuts for non’union people.
    this is all about TRYANY AND ABUSE, PERIOD. How about talking about the criminal threats made by this governor about bringing in thugs to create a riot? This is the good old DIVIDE AND CONQUER plan.
    Does anyone remember when a coal miner was killed in n accident? Well, the next day the company came over to his home and threw his wife and children into the streets to die. why is no one talking about the illegal wars which is costing this nation trillions of of war profits. Last year at my wife’s hospital, they stopped the pension. A few months latter the executives took a 52% pay increase with a hugh bonus. Its called greed and selfishness. I believe there is going to be class warfare now in the US. And everyone is going to lose.

  • http://fairtaxbs.blogspot.com/ Mark

    The governor of Wisconsin is like the guy that robs the 7-11, and he makes the clerk hand over the money, shoots them.

    The teachers ALREADY agreed to the cuts! They gave everything financial the governor wanted.

    But that doesn’t matter, the governor wants to shoot them.
    Here is a clue — he can fool the people who watch FOX spews, but he can’t fool everyone all the time. This is simply union busting, AFTER the Union gave them all they wanted.

    • Bruce D.

      He is fighting for the right to fire incompetent teachers which is very difficult because of collective bargaining. Our educational system no longer functions properly.

      • bob wire

        well Bruce you might wish to believe that is all that it is at stake. If that was the case, that would mean the state is doing a poor job in negotiating would it not? Do you honestly believe the states with all their money,power and building brimming full of attorneys cannot negotiate?

        perhaps more consideration is advised?

    • Bert Cundle

      INDUSTRIAL & LABOR UNIONS BUSTING… FOR GOV. CONTROL… SOCIALISM!!!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Oh, go back to sleep!!!

      • JC

        Unions ARE Government controlled socialists.

        • get right

          jc, that comment doesn’t make any sense. If the government controlled the unions, Walker wouldn’t be having this problem…. time for bed for you….must be tired.

  • Jack54

    Once again, americans are fighting americans over the selfish, greedy, exploiting ways of the rich and powerfull special interest groups…distortion of facts…hypocrisy…

    Republicans resemble fascists…the total control of the pouplation by the combination of government and business leaders…the key players always get what they want…Obama has gone center or even right with the Patriot Act extension to maintain power in consort with the military industrial complex, big oil, the banks, wall street maniplulators, insurance companies, pharmaceuticals, mega chemical firms etc…of course, the Democrats do not want to alienate union constituents…the Congress, Senate, Governors…are their salaries and benefits anything less than the union workers…and they even give bonuses to the key governmental managers who do their bidding…

    In an economic system whereby you replace only a fraction of the number of jobs that were lost by outsourcing overseas at a much lower payscale than those original US based jobs…at the same time as prices are rising…at the same time Federal, State and local governmentals are essentially bankrupt due to the loss in payroll, property and operating taxes from the outsourcing…throw in the criminal mismanagement and greed of the banking/wall street crones that was a major part of the economic collapse as well(Obama did make some efforts to correct these problems)…factor in the wars for oil with the Islamic peoples who seem to indicate that they want freedoms similar to ours but also freedom from outside involvement including ours(just send money?)…Colin Powell told Bush there was a high probability things could end up this way…there are many of the items that are part of our current mess…

    Now, are Democrats and Republicans working together to solve these problems…the concerns who make up the lobbyists need to stop the power, control and wealth priorities or at least mitigate things to the degree that allows economic rebound while eliminating true unnecessary spending and work together to achieve this before our once wonderfull country crashes…

    Common sense says…if you can not get a job that allows you the basics in life…you will need monetary help to pay for the basics in life…for you and your family…if you steal…you will get caught…the costs of the police force…the prosecutors…the judges…the lawyers…the governmental employees who transport you and control/maintain the jails/prisons…they are all high costs adding to our budget deficits…or do we simply utilize the FEMA Camps and kill-off those who are not capable of making it in our current economic system…if we claim to be civilized Christians/Jews/Muslims/Atheists the choice is providing the basics to everyone…sharing is required…

    I for one still believe we have all the necessary talent and resources to solve our problems and once again be the world leader in all categories relating to personal freedoms for all on an equal basis, the most productive business/economic environment, the highest quality living environment regarding air, food, water and healthcare for our people, animals and landscape…and do it to allow fiscally responsible operating budgets to be met…but we need real leaders who effectively perform their jobs…neither the Democrats or Rebublicans show any real plans to make this happen…just the same old special interst group representation that has brought us down the road to where we are today…

    Maybe, we need a vote of competency clause in our election of our leaders…none of them gets paid when they do not provide the necessary results like they said they would before they were elected…and at the end of their term if we are still unhappy by their showing no progress… they are barred from running for re-election or another office…no pay…no retirement…just leave…they all work together to achieve success or they all leave the system for which they have been exploiting…

    Have a nice day!

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Polski,
    Ya, look at Toyota you nit brain. They were cleared of all wrong
    doing over a 10 month investigation in their electrical systems,
    that were suposed to have caused all the major accidents. The final
    ones to clear them was Nasa. There was a problem with loose floor
    matts, which Toyota has taken care of. Any cars are going to have trouble
    in time, with loose floor matts. This was nothing, but the goverment
    paying back the unions for their support, by going after the no one
    automotive business in America. General Motors needed to sell their
    cars and they needed Toyota out of the way.Toyota did lose a share of
    it`s sales during this time, the only top 5 car maker to do so. However,
    Toyota is back on top with Camery still the number 1 selling midd
    size car
    in America in 2010. I wonder what tricks, Obama and his union thugs
    will try next. Ask the worker at Toyota, how they feel about unions and why did Motor Trend make Toyota the No`1 automotive builder in America
    just a couple of months ago. It could be, because they have a better
    and prouder work force. No union to protect a bunch of dead beats.

    • Dale on the left coast

      Charles . . . they tested 75 cars . . . for a problem that may occur once in 10,000 vehicles . . . feeling relieved now???
      Toyota has recalled over 20 Million vehicles 2004 and newer, they build JUNK!!! Just recalled another 2.4 Million last week. Toyotas profits go to Japan . . . if you want to support the Failing Japanese economy . . . buy one.

      • Jovianus

        ironic that I’m called unAmerican because I support the Rights of the people and call for taking away the special tax breaks given to the wealthy and cutting the welfare to the rich and coporations…yet i drive an American built vehicle.

        While I venture many of the so-called ‘patriots’ posting here have a foreign auto in their driveway, shop Wal Mart, buy foreign made clothes, and buy foods picked and harvested by undocumented workers….

        • get right

          Jovianus, I would bet a month’s salary, that these hypocrites are exactly what you profiled.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Dale,
        My daughter has a Toyota that she has put over 30,000 miles on in the las year and not a single problem. she bought it used, as well!! It’s a Yaris and it runs like a top!!!

  • American Taxpayer

    Give the teachers notice to be back in the classroom in 24 hour or else be fired. Give the legislatures 24 notice to be back to work or else call for a special election. The taxpayers can no longer pay for their incompetence and refusal to pay their fair share or for their sick days for their refusal to work. We already gave until it hurts, we’re bleeding to death. Now it’s your their to bleed a little!

  • American Taxpayer

    Give the teachers notice to be back in the classroom in 24 hour or else be fired. Give the legislatures 24 notice to be back to work or else call for a special election. The taxpayers can no longer pay for their incompetence and refusal to pay their fair share or for their sick days for their refusal to work. We already gave until it hurts, we’re bleeding to death. Now it’s their to bleed a little!

  • Mick

    Warrior says:
    February 28, 2011 at 8:07 am
    So, if one wishes a career in public service, they are “forced” to join a union? Hmmm, sounds sorta perverse. Do individuals not have rights?
    ***************************
    Warrior …….As far as the unions are concerned you have NO RIGHTS unless you join their crooked organizations and God forbid you have right tendencies, they will find a way to fire you in a heart beat just because you may be able to corrupt other workers with your moral values,,,

  • Mick

    Bruce D. says:
    February 28, 2011 at 9:32 am
    He is fighting for the right to fire incompetent teachers which is very difficult because of collective bargaining. Our educational system no longer functions properly.

    ***********************Bruce ,,,,,,Just as it should be to reestablish a true education versus the crap they’re teaching to implode the amount of cretins we have around us today causing the mediocrity America is plagued with ……..

  • micky.c

    In reply to all you liberal union people , your icon of liberal thinking F.D.R. said that government or public unions should not be formed, also during the second world war he busted the bus & trolly car unions in philly , because the would not allow blacks in. so put that in your pot pipe and smoke it.

    • Angel

      Republican Eisenhower praised unions, collective bargaining and the merge of the AFL and CIO during his administration. Look – you can even see these FACTS on Wikipedia. Facts? Remember those?

      • bob wire

        It seems the Allied Supreme Commander / GOP President is not “their kind” of conservative Angel.

        They are looking for the “New and Improved” version that we have yet to see but left only to hear about.

      • http://deleted Claire

        It depends upon WHICH web site you want to look at and read.

      • JC

        What’s your point Angel…that a “Republican” gave it the blessing?
        So what! It’s wrong no matter who gives it their blessing.

  • JR

    I do fear that antics like Wisconsin and Walkers belligerence will hurt the GOP big time in 2012.
    Lets look at some simple Nov 2010 statistics.

    The overall turnout was 41.5% of all registered voters.

    79% of all registered republicans voted

    Only 44% of all registered democrats voted and this resulted in the house going GoP and the Senate still democratic. Look at the seats. It still is only a majority and not a full house win.
    If the GOP keeps up those antics and raises the ire of the people in this way, I predict that a very large block of democrat voters will go out and vote and it will result in a huge loss to the GOP.
    Yes I know…everyone saiz the people have spoken but in fact, only 41.5% of the people have spoken and of those the majority of the GOP has spoken….we do NOT have the reserves to win against a higher democratic turnout in 2012 so I predict if the GOP keeps up the rhetoric and keeps up this narrow minded short lived game and thereby alienates the middle of the voters, in 2012 all this will be reversed and unfortunately Obama will win a second term in a land slide. Running around like a neanderthal with a bat inside a glass house destroying everything in its way. This all could have been resolved with a bid of finesse and diplomacy. He should have waited to give the 140 million in tax breaks until after he went after the unions…now that simple act of impatience makes him look like a hypocrite and fool to the middle and left voters in this country.

    • bob wire

      I see that as well, It appears the GOP seems to enjoys alienating “voters”, constantly shooting themselves in the foot.

      I believe it’s Karl Rove, Karl has enjoyed great success with over thinking things in the past and he continues to do so too this day. he got “W” elected and controlled the GOP for many years.

      But it’s became a Wylie Coyote and Road Runner Cartoon with him, buying Acme gadget and rockets, planning and scheming, building and constructing only to have it blow up in his face and the Road Runner chock him in heel dust.

      Karl has been laying low and running under the radar of late, I think he is in this up to his neck!

      • Angel

        Karl Rove should be rotting in jail for outing a covert agent. Had Rahm Emanuel done that, this group would be screaming for his neck. Just another instance of partisanship around here.

        • Dale on the left coast

          Valery was flying a desk at the CIA, her husband was Lyin about Yellow Cake (it was shipped to Canada a few years ago from Iraq) . . . . and a guy in the State Department “outed” the Plame drama queen. You just need to be better informed.

          • Angel

            My point stands – if Rahm had done it, you’d have CRIED and CRIED holy murder. Stop being a partisan sheep!

          • http://deleted Claire

            Rove? Rahm? And now add Gingrich into the mix. Is there anyone with one ounce of ethics running for office anywhere?

          • bob wire

            Well “covert” is a good summation for Karl Rove. He’s the nastiest snake in the grass since Phill Gramm (the weasel)left DC.

          • get right

            Dale, you never, ever out any of our citizens who are serving this country, either in uniform or civilian attire ( FBI CIA). That is a traitor. No other word fits that action. It doesn’t matter what you think of the importance of her job. The fact was she was an undercover agent whose career was cut short due to the Cheney thugs running this country.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Jack54,
    There are no more Democrats, the Progressives, Socialists, Comunist
    and a Marxist President have taken over Washington. The Progressives behind
    the name of the Democrat party, have spun their Marxist views upon the American people. The Democrat party is now the Progressive party.The Americans will join together, Dems, Repub, and Indep. to defeat Obama
    and his thugs in 2012 The Democrats, whats left of them, will vote
    Republican and reclaim their party for a run in 2016. Whoever, wins in 2016 we will know, they will be true Americans,
    and not a bunch of radicals, trying to destroy this great country of ours.
    Bring back our two great party`s ( Dems and Repub) and give the Independents something to vote for. We need all Americans, to stand up
    and send this cancer from our shores foreever. Only then, can America
    be fixed. Down with MARXIS OBAMA, and the rest of his thugs in Congress and the Senate and his COMMUNIST BUDDIES>

  • marvin

    like rep poe said on rebates their are a lot of people getting a rebate with no bait[money] in the game like tax refunds,no one should get back way more then you put in,like gm the people that had money invested lost it ,the unions had no money it the game and never lost any or vary little

    • bob wire

      Sir, GM union employee’s took wage concession and had a lot in the game as you put it. Today GM and all of it’s many supporting companies employ many thousand of Americans all over the USA that buy products and pay taxes.

      This month GM posted quarterly profits for the first time since 2004.

      So I’ve left attempting to understand your point?

      • 45caliber

        Maybe I’m remembering things different than you are. But I don’t believe that it was a union concession that brougth GM back – it was several billion dollars of my tax money given to them by Oblama. And I recently heard that they are asking for more…

        • bob wire

          along with union concession ! ~ Your memory serves you well 45 but you are omitting the unions contribution to the comeback. If you will remember “O” sent one GM CEO Rick Wagoner,packing for failing to approach the issue in a serious manner. If the American people were to get involved in GM’s affair, everyone was required to bring something to the table. Seems Rick Wagoner wasn’t on board and was dismissed.

      • JC

        GM has never paid back anything. A bunch of TARP money was shifted around and the loan declared paid off…yet the government still has a 60% stake. fascism on the Hitler model in a nutshell…and the American Taxpayer is covering the costs. Screw GM and their unions.

        • get right

          jc, why don’t you have the same attitude about Wall Street?

  • Steve Coy

    Even with the small cuts that union workers are railing about will still not affect the deficit much. WHY is it that we, I, hear nothing about ILLEGALS and their costs to American TAX payers and American workers? We are talking about $800 Billion of American tax payers money and let us not forget the famalies of the murdered Americans by the hands of the Illegals. We lost 3 people just last week to an Illegal and that makes about 15,000 to 20,000 thousand Americans across this land since 9/11. Lets hold these Politicians hands against the fire and get all 40 million Illegals out of our Country. Yes, 40 million, 2000 census said 22-24 million in U.S., 2006 I mmigration said 1 million crossing our borders each year since 9/11 and 2009 Immigration said up to 5 million crossed our borders in last two years. Immigration also said that over 25,000 of those people came from Arab countries that don’t like us, can you say Terrorists. Oil up your guns and buy more we are going to need them to take back our Country.

  • jopa

    I have never seen so many fools in one gathering like there is on this site.Have you all forgotten about the Wall Street crisis that brought America to it’s knees and the mortgage crisis.It is not the teachers, fireman and police that are responsible for this mess.It is people like the Koch brothers that feed you all this crap and you believe it.Did you people realize there was also a clause in the Walker bill that would allow people like the Koch brothers to buy public utilities at little cost and the taxpayer would lose billions on their tax investments.I will never understand the mentality of scum billionaires when they have so much and want so much more at any price as to demonize police,firefighters and teachers.

    • Rennie

      Goldman Sachs? Are you forgetting Wall St gave a one sided amount of money to a state senator no one ever heard of before? That includes BP, who coincidentally got the Lockerbie Bomber sprung without objection from Obama’s state dept. (which Bush had objected to previously) so they could trade him to Libya for an oil deal, so that London has an oil supply if Scotland wins independence and takes back control of the North Sea? Sure they blamed Scotland (old English custom) but as part of the deal the UK hasd their SAS train Qadaffi’s palace guard. That all turned out well, didn’t it?

    • Angel

      Scum billionaires – a Republican tradition!

      • JC

        Kind of a “Frothing at the Mouth” kind of communist aren’t ya?

        You should maybe check into some of the many FDA approved Meds available to help you deal with stress.

        (Caution: May cause arythmia, irregular bowel movements, swollen adenoids, dizziness, blindness, cancer, suicide, clown feet, nasal discharge, exploding eye balls, a strange urge to sing Bee Gees songs and, or stand in a park and chant with people, a hatred of all things American, and an irrational fear of firearms….talk to your Doctor,
        or if Obamacare has occurred…talk to your “wellness provider” to see if Liberex is right for you.)

      • patty

        I think you would be surprised if you knew how many democrats are multi millionaires:
        http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29235.html
        Among the highlights: Two-hundred-and-thirty-seven members of Congress are millionaires. That’s 44 percent of the body – compared to about 1 percent of Americans overall.
        CRP says California Republican Rep. Darrell Issa is the richest lawmaker on Capitol Hill, with a net worth estimated at about $251 million. Next in line: Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.), worth about $244.7 million; Sen. Herb Kohl (D-Wis.), worth about $214.5 million; Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.), worth about $209.7 million; and Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), worth about $208.8 million.

    • 45caliber

      jopa:

      Let’s talk about police, firefighters, and teachers.

      Is it right for the police to go out on strike, to allow you to be robbed at will? Is it right for firefighters to go out on strike to refuse to put out the fire at your house and stop you from trying to do their job? Is it right for teachers to be allowed to not teach the children so they can protest or to sleep in late? Is it right for me to have to pay for the insurance and retirement for these people when I can’t afford to pay for my own?

      I really have little problem with people who want to be in unions but I have a great deal of problem with union people telling me that I have to give them more and more and more. And I have to pay a union official to even be allowed to work so I can pay the taxes needed to meet their demands.

      • Jovianus

        FYI…you can have, and there are many public employee union contracts, a ‘no strike” clause in them. Just because a person has collective bargaining available, tha doesn’t mean strikes would be allowed in the contract or over legislation denying the right to strike.

        • get right

          Jovianus, they don’t get those simple facts. They just want to blame some group for all the problems that were caused by greed from our politicians, brokers, bankers, corporations. The teachers were the unlucky group. Have you figured out what job is satisfactory to the radical right??

    • http://?? Joe H.

      jopa,
      get your facts straight!! The mortgage crisis was created by fannie and freedie with a whole lotta help from Bawney Fwanks and Dirty Harry Reid plus a whole lotta progressive congress pugs!!!

      • Patty

        You forgot Chris Dodd

  • Bert Cundle

    As a Mechanic… I see our government ( & the world ) With Two (2) Front tires flat, & a Rod Knock, & Out of OIL, & NO GAS…
    How did it get so bad “ALL AT ONCE”???

    • Bert Cundle

      Government, dropped our boarders, & Meddled into other Countries Affairs. This President had a chance to fix things at the start of his job… But, Fumbled & went to the wrong goal! Disgraced DEMOCRACY!!! Disgraced U.S. of A.

    • Rennie

      Because we screwed the car comapny’s bondholders and after bailing it out with taxpayer money gave control of the company to the UAW?

    • 45caliber

      By ignoring all the problems until they all became critical at once.

  • Rennie

    I love the idea of unions electing the guy on the other side of the table they are supposedly “negotiating” with, elected with money skimmed from all government employees (regardless of their own personal political views), makes a lot of sense, doesn’t it?
    I like the idea of police siding with union protestors and not stopping violence or preventing access to the chamber floor, if you or I tried that we could be charged with criminal trespass and likely face terrorism charges. And then they are outraged Walker considered employing the National Guard to maintain law and order.
    I like how if Walker loses and the unions win, the municipal bond market will have to raise the yield so high taxpayers won’t be able to afford it, (but they will kick that can far enough down the road not to hurt them before the next election).
    I like how land owners whose income is far below what government employees earn, are expected to pay an ever increasing share of what income they have for taxes, not to mention all the other clever little taxes, fees, fines, etc. states come up with to “enhance revenue”.
    I like how NYS is considering taxing the income of non-resident landowners, and what that will do to our already ailing real estate market, because there are already a lot of retired/fixed income people who are only staying because they can’t sell their homes for enough to relocate out of state. And a general exodus of younger people looking for work elsewhere who aren’t tied down to one. Of course this will mean more vacant housing for urban areas to dump their welfare loads out into rural counties, raising local taxes and crime rates even more.
    I like how people my age look at the joys of home ownership, between the real estate crash, mortgage meltdown, tightening requirements and higher interest rates and taxes looming, and figure given the reliability of the jobs market they would rather rent.
    I like how the magic answer to improving student test scores is to keep paying teachers more money every year, regardless of performance, and I like how they base performance on how many kids in a class pass the tests at year’s end, not on how many they discourage into quitting the class or dropping out of school entirely so they and the school can look better at the end of the year.
    I like how unions officials and democrats in Wisconsin keep showing off their own excellent math skills.
    I like how it’s the Tea Party protestors who keep getting labeled as “violent” by dems and their media, but it’s the union thugs and leftwing who are doing the attacking.
    I like drinking the cool aid and believe everything CNN and MSNBC tells me is truth, I don’t have to think that way. Because this is no longer the USA, it’s “Opposite Land”, where everything officials and newsmedia say, is the exact opposite.

    • Bert Cundle

      The Bigest Problem With My UNION… IS P.A.C.!!! Our Dues $ to Politicans, For Favors?!? Cost us Strike Rights! The Government is on a ROLL to CONTROL EVERYTHING & EVERYBODY! CLAIMING: Home land Security, & Deffiset…

    • JeffH

      Rennie, I enjoyed the read, very good!

    • Jovianus

      Ren..ou state in several places where the Wisc unions are breaking the law, trashing the place, and being violent. Good drugs eh?

    • Jovianus

      Ren .. you state in several places where the Wisc unions are breaking the law, trashing the place, and being violent. Good drugs eh?

  • dhellew2

    Unionized public workers is a fast track to economic failure, giving them the ability to hold the economy hostage for their own personal gain.

    Ever stop to realize that government workers pay is tax revenue and because you cannot pay taxes with taxes anymore than you can borrow money to pay borrowed money, government workers do not contribute to their retirement, pay taxes, or contribute to the economy.

    All government is an expense to the private sector businesses and workers which are the economy.

    These same teachers that live on tax revenue are fighting to keep their free medical and free retirement already make 50% more than private sector teachers, have 80-times more benefits, and work one third less hours.

    And for those that call corporations and the rich scum bags remember they are the ones that give you a job, are the 10% of the population and pay 40% of the taxes. Businesses and their workers pay the other 60% of the taxes and are only 20% of the entire population. THAT IS CORRECT, 30% OF THE PEOPLE PAY ALL THE TAXES FOR THE TEACHERS, FIREFIGHTER, POLICE, POLITICIANS,GOVERNMENT WORKERS, WELFARE, MOST ILLEGAL ALIENS, ETC WHO PAY NOTHING.

  • Samantha Gray

    The distortions and divisive and dangerous exhortations contained in this invective (definitely not a report) make my stomach queasy. I agree that the gravy train is derailed. But not at all in the way you seem to want “we the people” to understand. The gravy train whose wheels are coming off is the train that has carried our middle class plummeting down the charts in terms of income, purchasing power, life expectancy, education, etc. etc. “We the people” are at long last (I hope it’s not too late) waking up. Get rid of collective bargaining? Really? Are our firefighters and police officers now part of the parasitic-disguised-commie-conspiracy? That’s why they have joined the protests? You neglect to mention that the unions have agreed to all of the proposed cuts and contribution increases. I guess the fact that the workers’ health fund is entirely paid for by worker contributions is one of those insignificant facts not worth mentioning. What do you gain by manipulating folks to support the undermining of their own interests? Automatic inclusion in the 5% and their underground bunkers? BTW. It hasn’t gotten bad “All At Once” – it’s taken about 30 years and folks just refused to pay attention, or to not realize that it was only a matter of time before before they, too, would need to be taken down

  • jopa

    Samantha:It hasnt gotten this bad all at once and as long as we continue to do business as usual and nobody on wall street gets locked up it is just going to get worse.I am almost starting to feel sorry for Madoff when Wall Street and the republicans say he was the only bad guy.

  • Angel

    Getting in bed with Koch Industries is no way to govern. The benzene brothers (don’t forget their indictment for knowingly polluting the air with this cancer-causing agent that was erased by $800K contributions to Bush-Cheney) have quite a “hate America” agenda:
    1. Eliminate medicaid.
    2. Privatize power plants (usually with no-bid sales to… guess who)
    3. Repeal laws requiring municipal governments to disinfect their water.
    4. Sell off wetlands. Must everything be developed?
    5. Ban wind-power energy from states because it competes against their oil industries.
    Remember when David Koch ran for vice president? He wants to end Social Security too.

    George Soros may be very misguided but he never advocated gutting this country (and polluting it) for his personal profit.

    • JeffH

      Angel says: “George Soros may be very misguided but he never advocated gutting this country (and polluting it) for his personal profit.”

      Angel, you have been overwhelmed by the “swill” of the progressive feed lots. DUH!

      Soros Creates Fund to Profit Off Progressive Lobbying. George Soros — whom we’re always told is not serving his own economic interests(may be misguided?) at all by promoting liberal politicians and big-government policies — is launching a new investment fund that plans to profit off of the “green energy” boom, which is entirely dependent on government subsidies supported by the groups Soros funds.

      The big-government policies advanced by the liberal outfits he funds — like Center for American Progress — will enrich the companies in which Soros is investing…

      Soros is hiring Cathy Zoi to run this new fund. Cathy Zoi was Barack Obama’s ‘Acting Under Secretary for Energy and Assistant Secretary for Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy.’ An Al Gore acolyte, Zoi was Obama’s point-woman on subsidizing green tech. Now she’s going to work for George Soros to profit off of subsidized green tech”…Zoi’s husband is an executive at a window company, Serious Windows, which the White House regularly held up as a “poster child of green industry.”
      Ms. Zoi is married to Robin Roy, a top executive at Serious Materials, a privately held manufacturer of ‘sustainable green building materials’ located in California. On the Executive Branch Personnel Public Financial Disclosure submitted by Ms. Zoi to the White House Ethics office as part of her confirmation, Ms. Zoi disclosed ownership with her spouse of 120,000 vested and unvested stock options in Serious Materials, a company her office regulates and that she may profit from.

      Oh well, we can put all that behind us, because now Zoi has left the Obama Administration and will go back to work making an “honest” living in the private sector, where she can put all the knowledge she gained from working for the Department of Energy to work for the private equity firms. Thata girl Zoi!

      Oh yeah, Serious Materials pocketed federal stimulus money, too.
      Cathy Zoi as the Asst. Secretary for Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy had control of $16.8 billion of stimulus funds. Conflict of interest maybe and now she’s working to enrich Soros too?

      • eddie47d

        Jeff; You wouldn’t have written that diatribe unless you are against green energy and want this country to be hopelessly hooked on foreign sources of energy. The Koch Brothers have deliberately been sabotaging green energy. The are also trying to gut the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act.We know you hate Soros yet if he wants to pour his money into getting us off Middle Eastern oil with green energy then all the power to him. The Koch’s don’t care about Americas environment and they seem to gloat over that fact. They are deffinetely one of the elites that are controlling what goes on in the USA. Their motive seems to be more about money rather than the damage they leave behind.

        • JeffH

          eddie, even a blind man can see sometimes.

        • get right

          eddie, the radical right wants the oil companies to control our lives. They will bring this country down under the guize of no government regulations. However, try to get an abortion and they want to create a new government agency to spy on you and put you in jail. Government growth to force their religious values down the majorities throat is acceptable and longed for. Why they want to go back to the 1800′s is beyond me. Just wish they would go ahead and leave, so the rest of us can go about fixing: education, energy, healthcare, taxes, climate issues. First week in Senate, they are addressing abortion, not jobs. Gives you insight into what their real agenda is.

    • 45caliber

      Angel:

      If you believe that Soros has no plans to “gut the US” I believe you said, then you are the one who is misguided – not him. That’s how he has made most of his money.

      And I have this bridge for sale … interested?

      • eddie47d

        Okay Caliber I’m interested. What damage has Soros done to the USA? Has he taken American jobs and shipped them overseas? Are his companies responsible or irresponsible? Does Petrobras pollute or doesn’t it pay decent wages for the area he drills in? Does he pay loans back? We know Soros has faults but are they human faults or does he have a secret army out there that is going to invade the US?

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Unions should never be in the public work place. It creates to many dead
    beats. It cost the tax payers to much money. Also, whenever something dosen`t go their way they hit the streets. It`s time we raine in the unions and see if we can run our country without them. They are joined to the hip with goverment to the point that goverment will give them anything they want.All for the pledge of a vote.The unions should not
    be allowed to donate money to any party.If I was a republican or
    Independent and belonged to one these Unions I would be pretty pissed
    if my union was using my hard earned dues going to help the Democratic
    party.All union members should be pissed because their dues are not going
    to the Democrat party,it`s going to the Progressive party which is full
    of Socialists,Marxist,and Communist.Your great leader ( Obama) is a Marxist!!!! If you want to keep your country you better pay attention
    to what goverment and the unions are up too.
    Obama ) is a Marxist

  • http://com i41

    Edee opened up one of his duall purpose vents, to claim workers don’t have to join a union. I guess the rez runner ward of the government, has never workered in a closed shop state. Unions of any stripe always protect the most sorry azzed workers at the expense of workers doing the work. The bigger the f–k up the stronger a union puke. The union police sure aren’t clearing out the State Chambers in Madison. I have been in several State Chambers Galleries and have never seeen such crap behavior, without someone not getting arrested or thrown out of the building. Just more examples of dumbocrap attitudes and union behavior. Teacher’s Unions in any state are the biggest shelter for screw up worthless teachers. Wyo finally passed a law that if a teacher is tested and fails on the test, even if working for 15 years or more, they get fired on the spot. jopa you forget to mention the 2 tax cheats in the Wall Street gamg who were on looking the other way, Geither and Daschle, more of your dumbocrap buds and push plate mates of Onumnutts.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Jopa,
    The first people that should be locked up are the overseers of Freddie Mac and
    Fannie Mae.Barney Franks and Dobbs, both Democrats. Next the CEO`S of Freddie and Fannie, then the Democratic congress that stoped Bush from
    looking into how Fannie and Freddie did business. then you should go after
    Wall Street.It amazes me how you left – wingers can lay all the blame on
    the Republicans. The Dems are every bit as guilty in the crash of Wall St.

  • http://google Leonard W. Giddens Jr.

    I can sum this argument up in a few words. A person that has not even a college degree making over $4oo.000 a year is plain obserded. A person or group of persons telling a company or a tax funded orginazation or Government what it must do should not be allowed. They have no right to force employees to pay them money. Sorry people should not be allowed to pay for protection of their jobs, they should be fired. These individuals are what make prices go up, because the companies have to take on another person to do a job that one person can to with ease. I say get rid of all the unions and the sorry people they are extaughting all these unwarrented raises and lavish benifits.

  • Angel

    Today’s joke:

    A unionized public employee, a teabagger, and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, looks at the teabagger and says, “Watch out for that union guy. He wants a piece of your cookie.”

    Source unknown.

  • Frap

    “President Barack Obama ginned up the stakes in Wisconsin when he said the budget battle, in which Governor Scott Walker is looking to make up a shortfall of $3.6 billion over the next two years, is a battle against unions. That’s not it at all…”

    That is exactly it. The governor is acting as a puppet for the Koch brothers, this is all aimed at breaking labor.

  • Angel

    After reading some of the stuff around here, I’ve come to this conclusion: There are 2 kinds of Republicans- Billionaires and Suckers.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      LOL..I use to be a sucker…I DETOXED by truth ingestion . :)

    • Marv

      And Suckers that are sure…one day soon…they will be Billionaires. That’s why they want to stroke big business so much and give tax breaks to the wealthiest few. They are SURE one day that will be them. And then they don’t want the unwashed common folk to be riding on their coat tails or getting some of theirs. They will crawl up out of the common folk trenches and will be rich…but never elite. They are the only “True Patriots” in this land. Us loser Liberal-Progressive-Commie-Fascist-Socialists who actually went to college and have careers that make a good wage…we are what’s wrong with this country. Just like those elitist teachers, police, and firefighters in Wisconsin.

      Proud to be a Democrap! Voted for Obummer! Love the Obamacare!

      • DaveH

        Funny, Marv, that you College educated Liberals can’t grasp the fact that Big Government aids those Crony Capitalists that you envy. As Government Grows, Corruption Flows. And you ignorant Liberals just keep feeding the beast.

    • Andrea

      Exactly.

    • JeffH

      Koch Executives Speak Out on Wisconsin
      “We will not step back at all.”
      National Review – February 24, 2011 9:12 P.M.
      http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/260685/koch-executives-speak-out-wisconsin-robert-costa
      In interviews with National Review Online, Koch executives responded to the incident and pledged to “not stop” supporting free-enterprise initiatives, even as opponents attempt to sully the Koch name and the groups that brothers David and Charles Koch, the company’s co-owners, support. They also noted that David Koch and the governor have never met or spoken.

      “With the Left trying to intimidate the Koch brothers to back off of their support for freedom and signaling to others that this is what happens if you oppose the administration and its allies, we have no choice but to continue to fight,” says Richard Fink, the executive vice president of Koch Industries. “We will not step back at all. We firmly believe that economic freedom has benefited the overwhelming majority of society, including workers, who earn higher wages when you have open and free markets. When government grows as it has with the Bush and Obama administrations, that is what destroys prosperity.”

      Koch executives are not happy about the use of David Koch’s name by the blogger. “It was a fraudulent call,” says Mark Holden, the general counsel for Koch Industries. “There are serious fiscal issues at play in Wisconsin. Yet our opponents are interjecting us falsely into this story. But our Wisconsin story is about bringing and keeping good manufacturing jobs in the state. It is disturbing that when a blogger calls using the Koch name, it is used as an opportunity to attack the company.”

      Fink tells us that he does not see the Walker prank as an isolated act. “This is not just left-wing bloggers,” he says. “This is part of an orchestrated campaign that has been going on for many months. It involves the Obama administration, the Center for American Progress, aligned left-wing groups, and their friends in the media. This is just the latest salvo in their attacks on the Koch brothers and Koch Industries. But it is an escalation — they’re now bringing in some labor groups, which they have not done before. We expect this to be part of an ongoing effort against [Koch Industries] as the 2012 presidential campaign approaches.”

      I’d like to ask if anyone else has noticed how the Koch name has been tossed around by the left and the media over the last month or so…yeah, always gotta change the focus away from the real issues and find someone to demonize…first it was Palin, Limbaugh, Beck and FOX…now it’s Koch…when this fails, who’ll be next, BUSH and Cheney?

      • Angel

        Yes, let’s give the Benzene brothers another pass – soon we will all need Koch Industries-manufactured gas masks to breath while walking out in the concrete jungle that used to be the forest preserves of our community. Free enterprise in action, folks. Time to wake up.

        • JeffH

          Angel says, bahhhhhhhhh, bahhhhhhhhh, bahhhhhhhh!

          • Angel

            Oh, man up!

          • http://deleted Claire

            Angel–those words make me think of Sharon Angle.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Claire,
            Nah, more like Sharron Osborne!!!

        • DaveH

          Angel,
          It is a fact that the richest countries have the cleanest environments. Yet you Liberals, who claim you are for the environment, are doing everything you can to impoverish our country.
          Fess up. Your real goal is nothing short of wealth redistribution. Money is dirty unless it is in your pockets.

      • Marv

        The Tea Party, LimbaughBeckPain, and the “Right” seem to think it’s OK to blame George Soros for every ill in the world (not just the USA). When the tables are turned and the spotlight is turned on the darling Koch Brothers (who also inserted themselves into a school busing issue in NC)… well that’s down right dirty pool. I have never seen such a bunch of hypocrites.

        This whole Wisconsin thing makes me think that the Tea Party folks ARE all old (they love their Medicare and Social Security!), uneducated (because being educated=elite), independently wealthy (because they don’t need no stinking police or fire services…or ANY Government services), white (lots of racism), and childless (because they think teachers=union thugs). Not very representative of the Grande Olde USA…or at least not for the last 150 years.

        • JeffH

          Marv…HAH!

        • DaveH

          Oh yeah, Marv. That’s logical. The difference between Tea Partiers and Liberals? Tea Partiers don’t believe in forcing their choices on other people through Big Government.
          I would take a Freedom-loving Tea Partier over a Freedom-taking Liberal any day of the week.

      • eddie47d

        Poor Jeff; Never stops bending down to praise the wealthy but will lash out at working America at the drop of a hat.We get a piece of the pie and we are the devils.The wealthy take the whole pie and leave their workers in ruin and Jeff can’t get enough of it. We are not your door mat or food for your lions. I was a union man for 40 years and I’ve seen the good union people and a few bad apples too. They sure don’t deserve the morbid mudslinging that so many of you have piled on.

        • JeffH

          eddie, I’ve never “praised” the wealthy. Unlike you, I don’t believe in thievery and in the Marxist idea of “redistribution of wealth” which you so dearly cling to. Unlike you,I’m not a socialist or believe in the Marxist ideals. Unlike you, I believe in a free market society. Unlike you, I believe in compassionate charity, not stealing from others and masking it as charity. If you don’t like the laws, get them changed. You don’t like the Koch’s, good for you. You feel it’s OK for the unions to donate 100′s of millions to the Democrats and expect special favors for those donation but it’s not OK for the Koch boys to lobby on their behalf?

          It really doesn’t matter waht you say because 90% of the time your wrong and the other 10% of the time you just end up sticking your foot in your mouth.

          • Marv

            That seems to be the problem…the laws of the land ARE changing and the Conservative right doesn’t like it one bit.

            Change is inevitable, change is good, and the times they are a-changing.

            It’s not 1950 anymore…the USA is part of a global society and economy…however hard that is to accept. We have to play fair with each other and the world. Trying to keep things the “way they were” is not going to work.

            The Constitution is a document written by men as a guide…not written by God as a Bible.

            Reagan was just a flawed man…not a God. He was a good President…but not the best one ever.

            Global Warming is real…so get over it and get with the program.

            Universal Health care…it’s coming baby!

          • JeffH

            Marv, NOT in my lifetime…Drink and eat hearty while you can. I hope you are a survivor and have planned well. The game is on, may the best man survive.

          • DaveH

            Get with the program, Marv? Are you kidding? Aren’t you the same Liberals who whine when a Company leaves our country and becomes “Global”?
            Marv says “The Constitution is a document written by men as a guide…not written by God as a Bible”.
            So explain to me, Marv, why the Congressmen all swear an oath to uphold the Constitution? Well, really you don’t need to explain to me, because I know that Liberals swearing to uphold something and actually abiding by that promise are two different things. And you think you dishonest people are the ones we want making our choices for us? You are severely deluded.

          • DaveH

            And, Marv, Global Warming? Are you kidding me? Didn’t you get the memo? Nature isn’t cooperating, so it is “Climate Change” now. Get with the program, Marv. You are falling behind on the latest Liberal propaganda.

      • http://deleted Claire

        JeffH– I have been hearing that Walker wants to be the only person to decide on utilities, etc. in Wisconsins–there will be no bids, etc. He will be the one that decides–Does this mean the Koch Brothers will gain control? This is what I have been hearing from my relatives.

        • Karolyn

          I also heard he has an eye towards the presidency.

        • JeffH

          Claire, I don’t believe what I hear but if that is the case then it is wrong…there should be open bids and let the best man win. They did that in California and we have the highest utility rates in the country. As a footnote, the propossed budget bill does not prohibit collective bargaining, it limits collective bargaining for the public sector unions. Everything I’ve heard claims it strips collective bargaining from the process and that is untrue.

          • http://deleted Claire

            JeffH–One of my uncle’s and his wife are staunch Republicans. They voted for Walker and now this is what they have told me. They are upset about this. If it is true and Walker wants to be the “only” one to have a say so and will not allow any bids, then yes this is wrong. They also told me there is plenty of talk about a recall–I told them Walker had to be in office for one year but they already knew this. They also told me that a lot of their Republican friends are honked off about it. Egads, what a mess. All I can say is that we all better “watch” these politicians.

          • DaveH

            The best we can do, Claire, is to get the Government out of the marketplace. Let the customers decide. Put the busybody regulators back to doing real productive work in the private sector. Imagine the double whammy they present to our economy. First they cost us big for their wages (Federal employees, for instance, get double the wages of their private sector counterparts) and then they cost the economy even more because they actually inhibit the productivity of the private sector employees.

          • get right

            DaVEH, OK, LET’S SEE YOU BACK UP YOUR LATEST LIE!!Show us the facts that government employess make twice as much as the private sector. Come on, let’s see those facts. You sound like one of Glen Becks ditto heads.

          • Patty

            Here you go Get Right-http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2011/02/working-in-america-public-vs-private-sector.html
            from your own George Stephanopoulos

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Obama >>>> Needs to stay out of State Politics and get his own house in order. He loves to stick his head in wherever he can. His latest gig
    was last night at the Acdemy Awards.That was it, I shut it off. This man has spent more money than any other President.He has had his picture taken more than any other Pressident. He has been on TV more than any
    other President. I think he wants you to get use to seeing him, I think he plans after destroying America, that he will be made Pres. for life.
    I can hardly wait, till they start putting his picture on bill boards,
    buildings and barnes,

    • karolyn

      Wouldn’t all his publicity go to show that he’s been more active than any other President? He has taken the reigns of this country at one of, if not the, most critical times in its history. “The Times They Are A’Changin’.” There is no more “business as usual.” We live in a new and sometimes strange world in which the old rules don’t necessarily apply. And I’m not questioning the Constitution as any of those rules. It’s about time we put away all our old ideas and move forward to become a 21st century nation; and I think that is what he’s trying to do. I know many of the posters here are old fuddy-duddies and hate change, but there ain’t nothin’ you can do about it. Bitching won’t help, and there’s sure more than enough of that here. What a great weekend I had without succumbing to the pull of visiting this blog! As I’ve said over and over and over again: “negativity begets negativity.” The reason the gas prices are so high is because of fear. We see a negative reaction turning into a negative result. All you complainers do is keep this country down. Go out and spend some money! Have fun! Help the economy!

      • JeffH

        Ahhh K, gotta have money to spend money…in case you haven’t heard, there’s a recession going on and fear is driving the gas prices up?

        Maybe you’d be better off staying away, to preserve your positive vibes. I already detect an aura of negativity coming from your comments. Bad, very bad!

        • karolyn

          Wall Street fear! Oh, please, there are plenty of people out there with money as evidenced by all the new cars I see everywhere, especially in Charlotte. I remember a speaker at an AA meeting many years ago saying “The only thing money is good for is spending – keep it moving” or something like that. He didn’t have a lot, but he had a good time! I’ve had times in the not-to-distant past when I was glad you can still buy $1 toilet paper; but I always treated myself to something every week, usually a particular food I like. In other words “Be good to yourself.” To each according to his own. I never saw a U-haul behind a hearse.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Karolyn– Speaking of cars, within the last few months I have really notice the Jaguars here in town. BMWs, Mecedes, Lexus–quite a few of them. Someone is making money or else they are deep in debt.

          • DaveH

            Have fun! Spend your money!
            Where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah, the story about the grasshopper and the ant.

      • 45caliber

        karolyn:

        “Wouldn’t all his publicity go to show that he’s been more active than any other President? He has taken the reigns of this country at one of, if not the, most critical times in its history.”

        Publicity has NOTHING to do with activity or job success. It only means someone is good about calling for pictures and that he has the media in his pocket.

        But you may be right about your second sentence – although I don’t think you mean it that way. I think you meant “reins” – not “reigns” although I’m certain that Michelle Oblama believes in the second word.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Frap, go starve and let them feed you. Maybe, they can by you a car and house too. If the unions aren`t taken to task, you won`t have a union to pay dues to anway. The states are broke,wake up. Maybe Wis. can pay their
    employees with milk and cheese.

  • Raggs

    I guess that the teachers want a biscuit with that gravy?

    • 45caliber

      And sausage too. In fact, they want the whole hog.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        45caliber,
        And they want YOU to butcher it for them for free!!!

  • JeffH

    I’m jumping into this fray a little late, but I must say that Bob Livingston covered this problem very well.

    Obama has called Walker’s legislation an “assault on unions,” but has otherwise avoided comment. We have to remember the connection between Obama, the SEIU and the wealth of union money sent to the Democrats. Favors, bought and paid for by the SEIU, National Education Assn and the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees just to name a few.
    http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A

    It will no doubt surprise you to learn that President Obama, the great patron of the working man, also happens to be the great CEO of one of the least union-friendly shop floors in the nation.

    Is anyone aware that Federal Government “Union” Employees have no Collective Bargaining Rights? That’s right, none, nada, not any “collective bargaining rights”. Obama weighs in on the Wisconsin governors decision yet his own Federal union employess can’t bargain? A bit hypocritical I would think. I guess Obama can’t come and march with the folks in Wisconsin ’cause his own Federal “Union” Employees don’t have any Collective Bargaining Rights whatsoever!

    Oh how I love to watch the webs the Liberal Democrats weave. Seems they get all tangled up in their own deceptions. It must have taken a whole lot of union money to get Obama elected. Union Money along with that of the Communists as they continue to pull the Puppets strings. Joe Biden was absolutely correct when he stated the Presidency is no place for on the job training. How is it that a highly educated and intelligent man can become President and behave so stupidly? Perhaps the education part was trumped up just a tad. Of course we will never know for sure since the records have been sealed.

    Thank you Jimmy Carter for doing “One thing Right” in making it illegal for Federal Government “Union” Employees to have Collective Bargaining Rights.

    If the president is so upset with Wisconsin’s labor law reforms, why won’t he allow federal workers to bargain collectively?

    • JeffH

      It was Obama who said on the campaign trail in 2007: ‘I’ll walk on that picket line’ if bargaining rights threatened. Now we learn that the the White House said Thursday that Obama had no plans to visit the state.
      http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/146091-obama-in-2007-ill-walk-on-that-picket-line-if-bargaining-rights-threatened

    • karolyn

      “his own” collective bargaining rights? I don’t think he has anything to do with that does he?

      • Marv

        Obama is a King and Jesus Christ all rolled into one Kenyan-Muslim package…don’tcha know? All powerful…can control anything when he wants to.

        • eddie47d

          Well that is what the Right says.

          • Marv

            They are like a broken record.

        • DaveH

          Well, let’s see, Obama has ignored centuries of Contract Law by unlawfully stiffing the bond holders of GM. And he has ignored the will of the American people and rammed an Uncostitutional Health Care Bill down our collective throats. Yep, sounds pretty much like a Dictator to me.
          I know, I’m supposed to ignore reality and become the docile dumbed-down citizen that Liberal leaders desire. If I don’t, the Liberals will call me names and perform other personal attacks on me. Kind of makes me wonder what I’m in for when they assume total power.

          • get right

            Daveh, God forbid, he helped save an American company, which by the way, we made money off of that loan. You radicals are just so hypocritical.

      • JeffH

        Where did you come up with “his own” collective bargaining rights?…if that’s so…why is he intruding into the Wisconsin situation. It’s none of his business…unless he’s a lacky for the unions…Oops!

        • karolyn

          What’s the big deal about him voicing any opinion about anything going on in any state?

          • 45caliber

            Because, unfortunately, he happens to hold the position of President – which people do listen to. So anything he says comes from that position – even if it is simply his own liking and not a Presidential one.

          • bob wire

            But then it would be okay if the President told the people of Wisconsin to go back to work ~ right?

          • http://deleted Claire

            Yes, Obama did voice his opinion, but apparently he has no plans to go to Wisconsin. It is a state issue. MSNBC (Ed Schulz) is giving Obama hell because he won’t go to Wisconsin.
            I guess it is a good thing Walker did not tell the voters of Wisconsin during his campaign exactly HOW he was going to cut the budget. If the Wisconsin people KNEW he would be going after the union, they would not have voted for him, hence he would not be the governor.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Haven’t you ever heard of: “Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.” That applies to all Presidents.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    Unions are obselete as there is now a quick & more powerful way to deal with employment issues..its called the STATE or FEDERAL LABOR BOARD. Unions play on the Laziness of people by mediating between the employer & employee..thats called a waterdowned solution. Any company stupid enoug to screw with the statefederal labor board deserves the action agains them. Which is employees knew this..wouldnt ever want a Union taking their money!

    Some dont like it when I call state employees, teachers, or anyone who works for tax dollars PARASITES…but you should understand that any employee who has a private counterpart is a PARASITE! They are NOT more efficient-productive-or better skilled then their private counterpart, and anyone who claims differently is a LIAR!

    Wisconson…absolute hogwash! What is the % contribution for someone who serves in the Military for 20-30 years? How about your Life. If you make it..you get it. I dont know what some consider their life worth, but I consider it priceless. So for some yippie to belly-ache and whine over a higher contribution that winds BACK IN THEIR WALLET..they can go suck sand! GROW UP and TAKE FULL RESPONSINILITY for your own future, quit being lazy expecting SOMEONE ELSE to do it for you.

  • JeffH

    When it comes to the Koch boys, the old Alinsky theme reverberates through the progressive halls of Marxists everywhere.

    I’ve proven time and again that your very own bedmate and puppetmaster, George Soros, is the one leading the charge of assaulting the core of the Constitution and the very freedoms we Americans enjoy through his many “progressive” 501c and 527 organizations…Soros’ money front organization MoveOn.org is a very major financier behind the radical rebel rousers, along with the SEIU and ACORN, AFL/CIO, AFSCME and the NEA, protesting across the country and you guys want to “demonize” the Koch’s because KochPac donated $43,000 to Walker’s campaign, the Cato Institute, Heritage Foundation and Freedom Works and then demonize Walker because he “thought about it”? The Unions are “doing it” all…hmmm, what’s wrong here?

    In liberal la la land it’s do as I say, not as I do…always good to know the old progressive double standard still exists.

    • Angel

      How much pollution has George Soros put in the air? How many cancer-causing toxins has he knowingly released all in the name of free enterprise? For every Soros on the left, the conservative movement seems said with 100 of their own. The Benzene brothers have given Wisconsin republicans much more than $43,000 – you just can’t find it out because Americans for Prosperity – funded by the Koches won’t release that information (because they aren’t required to). Oh, they just spend $340,000 on an ad buy.

      Soros is misguided – the Koches are true SCUM who hate America.

      • JeffH

        Angel says, “Soros is misguided”…not even worth my time for a detailed response.

        • Angel

          Thought so…. You are awful good at making up stuff but FACTS seems to be beyond your grasp.

          • JeffH

            Angel…making up facts? Maybe you could be more detailed and provide some factual rebuttal to my “made up facts”? Is that to much to ask? I won’t hold my breath but I will keep checking back with you…for your proof…of course.

      • 45caliber

        Angel:

        Soros didn’t become a billionare by not polluting. He became one by ruining the economy of various countries and putting a lot of people out of work. Just like he is in America.

  • 45caliber

    Some of you pro-union people here please answer this question.

    What part of “budget” do you not understand?

    All states are facing deficeits this year. And states aren’t able to print their own currency. They have to balance the budget someway.

    So, tell me, if the government isn’t supposed to cut any union costs such as retirements and insurance, where are they supposed to cut? Come on, let’s see where you would cut costs – and show actual money saved, not just talking points. If you say the state governments should cut “corporate welfare” show how much they are spending on it now.

    • barbm

      i’m not pro union, but i’d sure not start with firing teachers. i’d reform welfare – afdc, food stamps, and medicaid. you wouldn’t get a dime more if you had more children while on public assistance. if your religion doesn’t allow birth control, hold an aspirin between your knees. food stamps would be lower during the school year when the school-age children are getting free breakfast and lunch at school. there would be a co-pay for medicaid, and no ambulance or emergency room services would be medicaid elligible unles the health issue is a true emergency. that would stop a lot of waste and ause caused by medicaid being absolutely free. if they had to pay part of the bill, they’d go to the drug store and buy an ointment for that rash instead of going to the emergency room. they’d have to work and pass a drug test to be elligible for any public asistance.

      • 45caliber

        barbm:

        I appreciate your answer – but you aren’t one of the liberals. I’m still curious about what they intend to do. I suspect it is a combination of raising taxes and borrowing money without any cuts at all.

      • bob wire

        And I wouldn’t be giving away millions of tax dollars of tax credit away so freely to big business either!

        45 you asked about what part of a budget pro union doesn’t understand. Well ~ ? that’s the part !

        Who was it that decided, we dump teachers and go to bed with big business? And what was gained with these tax cuts? ~ What was promised? Was anything promised? What was guaranteed ? What was bought?

        So far, this has failed to come forward. I don’t think that at this point, that it’s too much to request! Leaving me to suspect the only thing promised was campaign contributions for the Honorable Governor Walker

        • eddie47d

          How much of your pension are you giving up Caliber like those in Wisconsin are doing? …or is fair only for the other guy?

  • nickwolf

    For years Pension Fund returns have been over projected to allow politicians to pretend they had more money to steal. Deregulation allowed Wall St. and the Banks to steal 30% of the nations wealth and decimate its prime saving vehicle..houses! Now three yrs after the Big Con….not one of the Criminals is in jail. Investigations are nonexistent, while the budget shortfall created across the board is blamed on the middle class….who are asked to replenish the coffers ….so they can be stolen again! The Rich get rich and the middle class gets poorer. This is whats happening and the lobbyist created “Fake Tea Party” was launched to promote social issue hate and create a smoke screen for the rich to get away with it! The gullible Christians who have always easily hated and been lead by Judas Goats are the reason they got away with it …and the reason they are set up to do in again.
    Mis-directing the hate away from the Banks and Wall St. is the direct cause of the lobbyist funded “Party of the King”. No taxation without representation….remember the representation part?
    Gravy train my a__! Why don’t you get back the stolen money from the Banks and Wall St.? They were propped up with Tax payer dollars and are living the high life again….making more than they did before??
    And we can’t even tax the Robber Barons? Tea Moulders , you have sold America to the lobbyists…you are now ” The Party of the Kings” and America knows what to do with Kings! How dare you call yourself Patriots….you grand dupes!

    • Bitter Libertarian

      I agree. I believe there are some good people in the TEA party, but they are definately hoodwinked into believing the Republican party holds the solution. The Foolish thing is they have more loyalty to a Political party then the Constitution….

      • barbm

        i’m an independent. i voted for a libertarian for governor, a republican for congress, and a demorat judge and district atty. the republican party didn’t start out being the rinos they are today. the tea party is taking it back. history has proven that the msm will not allow the 2-party system to be meddled with. i try to vote my conscience, but we must be realists. i voted for the libertarian because i liked her answers at the debate and i hated both the dem and rep candidates. however, had i not known for sure that the dem would not win, i would’ve voted for the rep to make sure he wouldn’t. let’s face it, the dems have become socialista and the reps have become dems. we just want to take the rep party back and get rid of the rinos. i think we’ve done a pretty darn good job of it considering the tea party hasn’t been around all that long. tea, anyone?

        • 45caliber

          And your voting is typical of most conservatives. We vote GOP only to insure that a bad Democrat doesn’t get into office since we assume the GOP member – even if a RINO – isn’t quite as bad.

          • bob wire

            So does that mean “W” and Chaney were somewhat of a disappointment?

          • DaveH

            Oh, come on Bob. Whether we like Bush or Cheney has nothing to do with these comments. I didn’t like Bush Senior either, but do we have to proclaim such things every time we comment to please you Liberals? Bush is gone (both of them). How about you help us make a better country where the Government isn’t meddling in our personal choices?

          • 45caliber

            bob:

            That is correct.

      • JeffH

        Bitter Libertarian, you sir have no clue what you are talking about where the Tea Party is concerned.

        “The Foolish thing is they have more loyalty to a Political party then the Constitution….” That’s about the most uninformed comment I’ve ever heard about the Tea Party.

        • Bitter Libertarian

          “Bitter Libertarian, you sir have no clue what you are talking about where the Tea Party is concerned.” You say that because you do not know the History of the party you serve…Why is it, and when did the republican party shift (as the democratic party) from their original territory? Were you aware that in 1860 the Democrats were in the very same states now held by republicans and vice versa?
          Why do Republicans & TEA partiers support ILLEGAL wars & Subsidies, and Corporate welfare? The Republican Party is the one who put forth the original Illegal TARP bailouts, patriot act, and TEN YEAR WAR in Afganistan!! Dream on pal..They are one party and the TEA party is getting mis guided.
          Its too late to salvage the sinking party..any wise man knows that when a group is as sick as they are they need to kicked to the curb to fix themselves, and get rehab.

          • JeffH

            BL…your rant doesn’t support your comment. It’s your right to view the Tea Party any way you want to, it’s my right to let you know you haven’t a clue and your arguement supports that fact.

          • 45caliber

            The Democrat Party was the best thing that ever happened to the Republican Party. In the ’60s the Democrats discovered block voting through minority groups. Instantly they began to pay these groups, through welfear and other programs, to vote Democrat. The middle class workers, mainly in the South where they didn’t listen to union officials, switched to voting Republican to get away from the Democrats. The North, which had been Republican, switched to the minority parties – and kept the union support because of the bribes they were getting. So it became Democrat.

            Does that answer the question about the shift? Further, the Republicans then were indeed BIG BUSINESS. But with the addition of the middle class (at least the Souther middle class) it had to change. Arguments that ALL Republicans are pro-big business remains the same even though it has changed. Basically such arguments are all Northern union related.

            It identifies you.

          • bob wire

            “Bitter Libertarian,” Jeff and 45 don’t see the conflict or contradiction in their stance. ~ Basically, they stand with the Wealthy and Champion the notion of a Robber Barron in any spit decisions. “We the people” doesn’t carry the same meaning or is felt in the same way. Angel wanna be, Vigilant, and many others wears this same hat or so I’m left to believe.

            They choose to ignore this, ~ this issues that fail to reconcile with this particular political dogmas they have hitched their wagon too.

            I’m left to believe they think along the lines that >poor people can’t help me or anyone else, I’m pitching my tent here and perhaps my “location” will serve me!<

            I don't really know why they think the way they do and left to accept it as a Conservative "thang" or at least their ideas of "Conservative"

          • DaveH

            Bob Wire,
            apparently you don’t see the contradiction in your chosen agenda. Big Business cannot force us to buy their products. They can not stop other companies from competing. Unless of course, Government which weilds the power of force comes to their aid. And yet, you Liberals who claim to be anti-business, just keep growing that Government bigger and play right into the hands of Crony Capitalists. Wake up.

          • bob wire

            Dave says;”apparently you don’t see the contradiction in your chosen agenda. Big Business cannot force us to buy their products. They can not stop other companies from competing.”

            Well Dave; contradiction is found many places, ~ Such big business as Oil and healthy care can indeed force us to buy their products. Energy production, food and water. ~ If Americans are paid less how is this to correct this lacking in their ability to buy and consume?

            Another contradiction I’d like to point out is while you are offering us what big business “can’t afford” to do while they post record profits.

            So is it really I that offers contradiction?

          • bob wire

            Dave says;”apparently you don’t see the contradiction in your chosen agenda. Big Business cannot force us to buy their products. They can not stop other companies from competing.”

            Well Dave; contradiction is found many places, ~ Such big business as Oil and healthy care can indeed force us to buy their products. Energy production, food and water. ~ If Americans are paid less how is this to correct this lacking in their ability to buy and consume?

            Another contradiction I’d like to point out is while you are offering us what big business “can’t afford” to do while they post record profits.

            So is it really just I that offers contradiction?

            When it comes to business matters, it’s about market shares and profit margins. Even if they are successful in doing these things well, how they spend their “Profit” determines their success. ~ If they blunder with over paying CEO’s or or putting their profits up their nose the consumer has no control of such matters.

          • 45caliber

            bob:

            Actually, we dont’ stand with big business, etc. at all. I don’t think you read my statement correctly. We aren’t with big business – we are AGAINST giving our tax money away to people to buy votes. That includes big business. The Dems want to buy votes more openly and in larger volumes than the GOP does. Both buy them. But since the Dems are so flagrant and use so much, we vote GOP (not supporting big business) to try to slow it down some. And as far as I can see, it works some of the time.

          • Vigilant

            bob wire,

            You apparently don’t follow up on replies to your own postings. Either that, or you’re trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

            I answered you the other day. In case you didn’t read it, I’ll re-post now:

            “(1) I have a firm and abiding belief in Capitalism. History proves that socialism/communism do not work, period. Capitalism as embodied by free individuals making uncoerced decisions in a free market would not have made this the greatest nation on earth in the absence of the principles laid out by the Founding Fathers and formalized in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

            (2) Concentration of wealth accrues to the entrepreneurs who have talent, take risks, and understand that they may be wildly successful or fail miserably. They know they are accountable for their decisions. Without entrepreneurs, there are no jobs.

            (3) You will never hear a true Conservative laud the success of a capitalist who has become rich through unethical, deceptive or criminal practices. There is not, nor should there be, any sympathy for these leeches. They deserve stiff fines and jail time.

            (4) No civil society has a right to hang out the destitute to dry, if those persons have tried their level best, played by the rules, or through true disability or infirmity cannot provide for themselves or their families. THIS, not indolence or greed, entails societal remedies at the lowest possible level of governmental entity (county or state).

            (5) Government has no business, with very few exceptions, interfering with free market principles. It both discriminates and violates the equal protection of the law when it seeks to guarantee outcomes rather than ensure that equal opportunity is practiced. THAT is “fairness.”

            (6) Confiscatory taxation to feed the maw of an inefficient government loaded with greedy politicians, bureaucrats and other power brokers is a sin against all of us who pay those taxes. Printing of fiat money is destructive to lives and the innate fairness of the Capitalist system.

            (7) Wealth redistribution projects and programs touched by government invariably turn to merde. EVERY program ever conceived by government has cost multiples of original estimates, fostered fraud, waste and abuse, and has made people MORE dependent upon government rather than less.

            To answer your charge, I don’t need to defend the wealthy, I simply tip my hat in appreciation to those who are at the helm of the engine of prosperity and pay 90+% of the taxes in this country, and without whom we would have gone down the drain a long time ago.”

            Now, are you going to ignore it for a second time, or are you going to address it?

          • Vigilant

            And, for the second time he doesn’t respond to it. Cowardice, man, cowardice.

  • Fly By Night

    Is Gov. Walker a phoney just as Obama is… :-)

    • bob wire

      Thanks for your “balanced” views ! LOL!

  • JeffH

    Does anybody remember the Reid supporting union thugs tossing eggs at the Tea Party busses and mis-directing the busses in Searchlight Nevada. Union thuggery is nothing new where politics are concerned.

    When it was first reported that Harry Reid Supporters threw eggs at the Tea Party Express bus, some on the left tried to blame Andrew Breitbart, claiming that it never happened, or that if it did, Breitbart probably threw the eggs himself to make the Reid supporters look bad.
    Too bad for them there is video. In this clip, a Reid supporting union man is busted egg handed!

    http://biggovernment.com/amarcus/2010/03/30/video-the-egg-man-of-seachlight-nevada/

    • bob wire

      Oh Dear! good thing he didn’t have a large “capacity clip” egg clip ~!

      yes , that is unacceptable conduct.

    • JC

      Goes to show Jeff,
      Unions want their “fair” share right?
      And as I keep saying “fair” is a concept of children and communists.
      So the ones throwing eggs are not only vandals, but childish commies…and they want my respect?
      (I don’t think so)

      • get right

        JC, since you don’t believe in fair, send me your grandchildren, so I can put them to work in my business. They won’t be home until about 9:00pm, but you shouldn’t care because they don’t need to get an education anyway. The repubs are trying to privatize education, so you won’t be able to afford to educate them, might as well let them get a taste of how unfair life will be…. I really need some cheap labor who will be ignorant.

  • Fly By Night

    Please be very careful when you are walk on Obama’s eggs, because HIS eggs crack… :-)

    • DaveH

      New Mexican breakfast — Huevos Obamos.

  • barbm

    here in san antonio, our city manager makes $300,000 annually. our mayor and city council members make $20 per meeting which is one a week except for july when there are no meetings or if a holiday falls on a thursday, and it can’t exceed $1040 annually. they also receive free life and health insurance. i called the mayor’s office this morning and told him he needs to cut hthe manager’s salary by $100,000 and split it among the mayor and city council members. we can’t get decent local representation because one must be wealthy to hold one of those offices. they’re pretty much full time positions and almost voluntary. i agree that we need to start at the top and start slashing salaries so we don’t have to lay off teachers.

    • Fly By Night

      Union workers teachers could be laid off? OMG :-)

      • JC

        I KNOW! Shocking isn’t it?
        However will our children learn the basics of communism without these professionals to teach it to them?

  • http://! Angel Wannabe

    It’s amazing, I seem to remember, not long ago, Obama Care was rammed down our throats, and we were suppose to swallow it no matter if we like the Taste or not. Now that the shoes on the other foot, were the big bad repubs who want hurt the working man. Riiiiight, you mean the Union working man. Its about time they play games like the rest of us, instead of a free pass to go on our dime!__

    BTW, in addition to the Union temper tantrums, a few Policemen now, don’t seem to want control the Union masses when they get out of control, so whats up with that?___Is this being done out of contempt, or being done to support the UNIONS, or is it out of fear of UNION retaliation perhaps????

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/protesters-defy-order-to-leave-wis-capitol-as-police-cave/

    • 45caliber

      Some years ago in Wisconsin, I believe, the unions decided to “strike” a plant that didn’t have unions. They hauled their men from Chicago. During the strike, a local citizen left a store (miles from the plant) and found a union man slashing tires in the store’s parking area. A cop was watching but doing nothing about it.

      The union man was almost to his car. He told the union man if he tried to cut his tires, he was going to do something the union man might not like. The cop then stepped forward and arrested him for “strike breaking”.

      Does this help answer your question?

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Yepper 45!

  • Fly By Night

    When did the Unions come into being… At President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s time? OMG :-)

    • r.p.

      Unions are a necessary evil. Teddy Roosevelt I believe was the first to support the Unions against Carnege, Morgan, and Rockefeller. Most Unions were founded on the Constitutional rights of free assembly and collective barganing. Unions are not needed, and should not be in the public sector.

  • Angel

    Another quote for everyone:

    ‎”Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.” – Abraham Lincoln, Republican

  • MiHood

    Maybe we need to differentiate between public employee unions who have collective bargaining rights and no competition for their jobs, and private employee unions who have to compete openly for their jobs. The nature of a public employee’s job gives them several cushy benefits like 14 paid holidays, quite a few paid sick days, many have full medical benefits and huge retirement packages with tenured job security after a few months of employment.

    To watch the private employee unions protect these extravagant public employee benefits and largesse shows that they do not consider them to be out of line. Their reasoning is distorted. They’ve sucked on the tet for so long, the cow has run dry. Why they can’t understand that huge debt destroys job growth is an oxymoron.

  • r.p.

    Now is the time for the people of Wisconsin to exercise their right to impose immediate term limits on the reps who have shown a clear deriliction of duty. The people should implement procedures to impeach or recall them for their crimes now. It has also been shown that the Tea Party is not what it was originally started out to be, it has been taken over by the NeoCons from the Republican party who by their recent votes have shown themselves to be supporters of big government, Obamacare, the PATRIOT Act, and the bailouts. Many of these Republicans jumped ship to join the Tea Party in an effort to maintain their seats in the House and Senate. They should be recalled or impeached now also.

  • jopa

    Charles;If you try and tell me Bush was looking into things at Fannie and Freddie and doing a little regulating I know for sure you have lost it.The only thing him and his cronies were looking into were ways to make war profits for themselves at our expense and American lives.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      jopa,
      look it up, it’s true!! Bush warned congress more than once about the direction they were taking with them, frannie and freddie, and they ignored him!!! LOOK IT UP FOR ONCE,SONNY BOY!!!

      • bob wire

        I’ve heard that many times. I’m left to believe a warning was not a strong enough response.

  • cin

    Both sides have some validity. We now have the worst of both capitalism & socialism in this country. Moderation, ethics, & scruples are not apparent. Greed is.

    • vicki

      cin says:
      “Both sides have some validity. We now have the worst of both capitalism & socialism in this country.”

      Capitalism has no worst. Socialism has no best.

      cin: “Moderation, ethics, & scruples are not apparent. Greed is”

      Greed is controlled by competition. What our problem REALLY is:

      CRONY Capitalism. Government pretending to be neutral while in reality doing what “socialism” means. Government ownership/control of production/distribution.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sSg0xjzIec

  • BigBadJohn

    But voters in November swept most Democrats out of their Houses (governor’s mansions and legislative buildings) and installed new governments. They showed they wanted a change to more frugal governance from one that had no compunction over enriching favored constituencies (unions and certain industries) on the backs of taxpayers. They elected men and women who said they understood what the electorate wanted.
    ********************************

    What a short memory you have….. 1994 Newt’s republican revolution promised the same thing. So with Republicans in control of ALL THREE branches of the government, what did we get? GWB doubling the size of government and spending more than all previous presidents combined!

    But now you think these same people have found fiscal responsibility – ya right I have a nice bridge for sale……

    • Fly By Night

      A Bridge For Sale?

      “London Bridges Falling Down, Falling Down, Falling Down; My Fair Lady…” :-)

  • http://personalliberty Real truth

    Funny thing BOB, I find it interesting that no one talks about all the state dept. heads and supervisors that are making 3-4 times what the public parasites, that do the actual work are making. Also no one talks about the part of the bill where Czar Walker will have the ability to allow officials appointed by the governor to make sweeping cuts in health coverage for the low income families without having to go through the normal legislative process. Also the language that related to a number of state-owned plants supplying heating, cooling and electricity to state run facilities. This language would let the czar privatize them without taking bids, to anyone he chooses( Koch Industries more than likely).
    Now I am a public employee, I gave up $7 and hour, one week of paid leave and paid health insurance to become a public employee. I have had two raises in 11 years, I pay part of my retirement and a good portion of my health insurance and I still make a lot less than working like I used to. I got tired of the travel so I took this job. I am so tired of all the BS about public workers being overpaid and leeches. The paper here had a article about this and said without the upper end( who never take cuts and get raises) the public workers actually make less. ‘ Its funny that ceo’s and upper level management get huge bonuses and salaries and they deserve it. WOW! United went into bankruptcy and after they had raped their workers gave huge bonuses to managment while their workers are making anywhere from 97 to 2007 wages and no bonuses! Now I ask you, if we had taken that $6 billion a month for 10 years in Iraq alone and put in into this country where would we be?

    • bob wire

      Real truth, it’s my feeling that you’re story represent the majority of public workers and you deserve more then you are receiving and greatly under employed like so many people these days. The Health care issue was largely about this great disparity in pay. If you worked in the private sector, you couldn’t afford insurance on such pay.

      While there is always exception to the rule, I think your story represents the “rule”.

      This story of Wisconsin is so embellished it reeks, ~ 80 thousand dollars per year teachers, in a pig eye, ~ maybe an Administrator.

  • chuckb

    real truth

    if i were that unhappy with my imcome, i would find other employment. no one is holding a gun to your head. public jobs are not to get rich on, if you want more money, go in business for yourself, there’s always the possibility you may end up rich like the koch bros, or maybe your hero soros. how’s the president of your union doing,is he suffering? how’s his retirement and health benefits? you say walker “may” cut health benefits, how do you know he may increase them. we have a country where you are free to pursue happiness and wealth “at your expense” not your nieghbors.

    • http://deleted Claire

      chuckb—The union workers have already agree to paying more for their health insurance, etc. They are protesting because they want to keep their collective bargaining rights.

  • Marv

    I wonder if anyone has told the teachers that they are fat cat parasites sucking the pubic teat dry. I’m sure the fire and police officers would be surprised to know that they are guilty of that as well.

    Unions spring up when the people they represent were not treated fairly in the past.

  • vicki

    Just in case no one has pointed it out yet. What we have is the proof of the assertion that Socialism works until you run out of other peoples money.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    One thing I would like to point out is the protesters in Wisconsin have repeatedly said they are willing to give up their benifits. The only real argument is over their power to ask for them back at a later date. I see nothing wrong with wanting the power to ask for benifits and the power to bargain. I dont see that or desiring pensions or support from the government to equate to mooching off said government. If they are willing to give up benifits I think comprimise could prevail and by granting Unions the power of Collective Bargaining in return for cuts in benifits I think a mutually satisfactory outcome can be found.

  • Marv

    One comment about Soros…a Nazi sympathizer at the age of 10? Really?! Trying to survive, especially when you are a child, is not a crime.

    This email was titled Liberty Alert: Elites, Parasites and Austerity by “Bob Livingston” (whoever that is).

    I wonder who the Austerity is in store for? Never have seen yet a GOPer who was interested in austerity for themselves…and we know as a Government they can spend tax money like a son-of-a-gun… So it must be those parasitic, elite, commie-pinko-fascist-socialist-marxist teachers, fire fighters and police officers. Show those folks some austerity! Open up a can of austerity whoop a** on them!

  • ONTIME

    Under the guise of public employees rights the government unions are picking a fight filled with violence, thus the plight of the poor public employees becomes a full fledged attempt by a communist lead union thuggs, sanctioned by the CIC in the WH to overthrow the U.S. government and less than 13% of the Society for the Protection of Major Crooks can impress this country’s population and turn us into a third world nation…are you ready to be a commie to save your lazy butt?

    Next there will be violent demonstrations against public oficials, trashing of public and private properties and mayhem that we haven’t seen since the Chicago riots in the 70′s. They government unions cannot generate the kind of support they thought they were going to get from the public, so the only resort left is to go all out and use the communist handbook tactics from the past. Thios will entail martial law and the kind of crisis needed by this administration to finally strangle free speech and any and all opposition…does that help?

  • chuckb

    claire

    the teachers don’t need collective bargaining that’s the problem with our schools, these teachers cannot be held accountable for their poor performance and this goes for most public sector employment. the unions are nothing more than a subsidirary of the bolshevik party.

    the police and firefighters are a necessity and they put their lives on the line, especially the police so i would be more lenient in agreements with them, however, they should not have coll. barg. either. the public sector does not produce anything other than a convenience in our daily lives.

    like i said before if your not satisfied with your employment there’s a whole world out their so start looking for another or start your own job if you want to get rich.

    • http://deleted Claire

      I love my job and we have no union. The only aspect I do not like about my job is that even after 45 years I just get 2 weeks vacation. I stayed, and now that I am older, I look back and wish I had left to get a job somewhere else that offered more vacation time. Forty-five years is a long time.

      • bob wire

        It sure is Claire ~ 45 years is a long time at one employer.

        I’ve been in the same trade field 41 years.

        I salute you. I don’t met many people with a longer service record then mine.

        Over these years I worked and contracted with maybe 30 business interest.

        Some required me to bring toilet paper I might need to work with you and hide it. There was no such thing a overtime pay.

        There is some real rat holes still out there to work for today.

      • libertytrain

        Wow, that is a lousy vacation amount after 45 years. However, if they let you take time as you want/need, without pay, I could handle that. I’m not concerned about being paid for time off…just having the freedom to occasionally take time off.

        • http://deleted Claire

          libertytrain– I have taken a 3rd week of vacation, of course without pay but it was/is worth it. I am way past retirement age, and the owner did ask me to stay. And you know WHY I stay!!! lol Dogs are expensive but they are worth it.

          • libertytrain

            I hope you do that every year!

      • get right

        Claire, you are aware that the unions are the reason that you got to take any vacation at all aren’t you? Unions got us the 40hr work week, anti-discrimination laws, pension plans, OSHA, vacations, 15 minute breaks during day, child labor laws, overtime pay. I am sorry you feel like you made a mistake. But at least you had the option to make a change and that will soon be a thing of the past.

        • Patty

          You left out one that the unions gave us. A bankrupt America.

  • LJ

    To:eddie47d
    Hey, ‘fast union bitch eddie, I say PROVE IT! You make a lot of contentious remarks like a lot of your progressive liberal pals and cannot back up one of them. YOU and your union buds are the true LIARS> Walker said WHILE he was running for office that he WAS GOING to take drastic steps to reduce our indebtedness. This is nothing new. Stop lying you a-hole and go kiss up to some other communists ass!

  • justice22

    Amazing! Everyone jumps on the working class without even acknowledging the true causes for our current dilemma.

    How about the thieves on Wall street who bundled billions of dollars worth of bad debts to spread around the globe. How about how these thieves did their dirty deeds under the watchful eye of our previous Bush administration. How about how these bundled bad debts ended up in public and private pension funds which exacerbated the pension problems. How about how no one from wall street has been held accountable and how about just recently the Fed dropped their criminal investigation against Mozilo from Country wide loans. How about the fact that Walker gave massive corporate tax breaks to corporations as his masters the Koch brothers insisted, while he bemoans the state is broke. Things are not right in America where the wealthy elite can cripple our economy without consequence for their actions yet these same privileged few can deflect all accountability to the working class. Americans are nothing more than sheep if they allow this charade to continue.

  • Goose

    How convenient that all the attention is focused on the so-called “union thugs”. That focus manages to muddy the waters enough that nobody is paying attention to othe parts of this budget repair proposal. Did anyone happen to notice the part giving the governor carte blanche to sell any state-owned properties to anyone he chooses for any price he chooses. It would never have to be made public / opened to bidding.
    Now, I don’t know what businesses, public utilities, etc… WI has. However, I do know a bit about PA, where, incidentally, that governor is trying to do the same thing.
    For example… There are no privately-owned liquor stores in PA. They are all state owned and operated. Of course, this means the state gets both the profits and the sales tax, which makes them a good source of income. He proposes to sell the liquor stores to balance their budget. Ok…. Selling the stores may. momentarily, balance the budget, but what then? Now, the state only gets the sales tax and business/liquor license fees. How short-sighted can you get? Ultimately, this will hurt the economy. It’s not rocket-science folks.
    In the case of WI, the deficit was created via the three tax cuts this Koch puppet gave to the wealthy. Created as an excuse to try to bust unions. Is there anyone who hasn’t heard the tape of the governor talking to the fake Koch brother? How can ANYONE still be behind this sell-out?
    Even if the above weren’t the case, need I remind everyone that this is 2011 AMERICA, not 1933 Germany. Take off the jack-boots Governor.

  • Marty S.

    We are eventually going to end up with a tax revolt by the people (the producers) in this country if government budgets cannot be balanced and spending cut back. Inflation is going to worsen and once Obamacare kicks in we are well on our way to a revolt. We need to get rid of a whole lot of govt. lard at all levels. If that means busting the public employee unions which should not exist to begin with then so be it. What this country needs is a real epidemic of common sense no matter what our political beliefs.

    ” You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”*

    * Adrian Rogers, 1931*

    • justice22

      Please tell me how major corporations like GE, BP and Bank of America can continue to earn record profits without paying one dime in taxes while we have over one million children in this country who are homeless. Please tell me how we can extend tax cuts to the wealthy while our deficit continues to spiral out of control and many of our seniors in this country live below the poverty level. No one is talking about “legislating the poor into prosperity” but all you have to do is look at the pathetic distribution of wealth in this country to know that the playing field is not level. Privilege begets privilege while the poor and working class struggle to provide for their families.

  • chuckb

    justice 22

    “the thieves on wall street and their
    bundling of bad debt to spread around the world. these thieves did their dirty deeds under the watchful eye of bush!”
    are you serious? this sounds like union propaganda,

    this is the barry soetoro administration, bush has been gone for two years and you union pawns are still trying to blame him. why don’t you ask barry and holder these questions. if i remember right all your allegations happened under the watchful eye of barney frank house service finance committee, a democrat. the house was under the control of a democrat congress since 2006. and if i remember right he and dodd lied to bush about the solvency of the financial institutions involved.

    • justice22

      chuckb

      The crisis hit while Bush was in office and he authorized the bailout before Obama took office. Ever hear of filibustering?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        22
        trs I have, where was Nobummer THEN?????

      • chuckb

        justice 22

        yes, the crisis started when the demos took over the congress in 2007 and the messiah voted for the bailouts, i didn’t hear you condemning that.
        barry voted for everything you progressives screamed about. talk about change, wow.

        • get right

          chuckb, you really have had your head stuck in the sand for about 8 yrs. Do some reasearch about Wall Street, taxes, and the subsidies to your favorite corporations. A little knowledge will open your eyes to those who you cower down to and praise.

    • bob wire

      “bush has been gone for two years and you union pawns are still trying to blame him.”

      Try? ~ We are not trying anything! We are suffering hardships today from 8 years of a poorly ran Executive Branch.

      Eight long hard grueling years of screw ups and misplaced priorities.

      And you can expected to be reminded of this fact for many more years to come. So relax and get use to it.

      There is no plans to let you forget it!

  • Rosebud

    I definitely think Gov. Walker is taking the right step. Public unions should never have been allowed…it’s communism. The enemy within has set up the every day citizen in the private and public sector for a FALL.

    I think there should be volunteer police and fire departments. By law, police DON’T have to protect you, and as far as the fire department, make it volunteer. Each male citizen in a city should have to volunteer for fire and police. It can be done.

    I believe all children should be HOME SCHOOLED by people with their best interests at heart. Parents do not have to have a degree in teaching. I know several people who have home schooled. The children are bright, polite, well mannered. Some parents share in their schooling. It only takes about no more than 2 hrs. a day for homeschooling through 7th and 8th grade. High school 3 to 4 hours a day.

    By government hiring, for every thing imaginable, this is how government grows, gets out of control. Perhaps if cities were made smaller, people would have more control over their lives.

    The enemy within created the Dept. of Education as a way for government to grow…a lot of special interests.

    • Jill Cross

      I’d sure like to take away the “communism” that the criminal corporations enjoy, like taxpayer subsidies. Why is it alright for the fat cats to put their hands in our pockets? I’ve never heard of a corporation fighting to keep jobs here for average Americans, have you? But Unions do. We need an American Workers Union to fight for ALL jobs and workers right here in the USA. No corporate fat cat would ever do that because it would cut into their profits. And anyone who is unemployed or underemployed should join up to fight against the criminal republican corporate elitist machine, to keep our right to collective bargaining. And collective bargaining has nothing to do with balancing the budget, Walker will prove this when he doesn’t.

    • get right

      Rosebud, you seem a little nutty, why would police volunteer to get killed for someone else without any reward or payment?? How would you expect them to support themselves? Oh Lord help us, the nuts are running loose. How about you volunterring to take the shots, since you think it is such a good idea? Only males you say?? Oh, a sexist amoung us.

  • Pete NY “R I P FEDERAL RESERVE BANK”

    LMAO. Some deluded posters say the unions made the USA the greatest nation in the world.
    What a crock!!! Unbelievable! May God enlighten America.

  • JeffH

    George Soros is nearly universally regaled as a wizard at currency speculation and hedge-fund management. But since 1992, when he earned the title of the man who broke the Bank of England by becoming a major player in the downfall of that nation’s currency, Soros has been more of a prophet reaping the returns on his self-fulfilled prophecies than he has even been a speculator.

    Time magazine has characterized financier George Soros as a “modern-day Robin Hood,” who robs from the rich to give to the poor countries of eastern Europe and Russia. He robs from rich western countries, and uses his profits to rob even more savagely from the East, under the cloak of “philanthropy.” His goal is to loot wherever and however he can. Soros has been called the master manipulator of “hit-and-run capitalism.”

    What Soros means by “open,” is a society that allows him and his financial predator friends to loot the resources and precious assets of former Warsaw Pact economies. By bringing people like Jeffrey Sachs or Sweden’s Anders Aslund and their economic shock therapy into these economies, Soros lays the groundwork for buying up the assets of whole regions of the world at dirt-cheap prices.

    Following the crisis of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism of September 1992, when the Bank of England was forced to abandon efforts to stabilize the pound sterling, a little-known financial figure emerged from the shadows, to boast that he had personally made over $1 billion in speculation against the British pound. The speculator was the Hungarian-born George Soros, who spent the war in Hungary under false papers living with a Nazi “father”, identifying and expropriating the property of fellow Jews.

    Remarkably, Soros today recalls the German occupation of Hungary as “probably the happiest year of my life.” “For me,” he elaborates, “it was a very positive experience. It’s a strange thing because you see incredible suffering around you and the fact you are in considerable danger yourself. But you’re fourteen years old and you don’t believe that it can actually touch you. You have a belief in yourself. You have a belief in your father. It’s a very happy-making, exhilarating experience.” Soros left Hungary after the war, and established American citizenship after some years in London.
    http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=977

    • get right

      JeffH, takes some nerve for someone like you to critize a 14 year old trying to survive in Nazi Germany. Easy to critize someone like that isn’t it? I wonder what humilating things you would have done.

      • Patty

        Usually, I totally disagree with you, but I believe he was 10 yr old, regardless, survival was the name of that game. However, he has survived a lot better than the ones he turned over. What is his excuse now and just how did that warp him into what he is today?

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Wiselady

    wiselady says:
    2-28-11

    To: eddie47d

    You don’t have to look beyond your mirror each day you look into it, look at your heart and your intellect of facts in History. The truth never fails us. Soros was like Maddofff; fool your friends and fool them again which is what both men did. Ego and greed are the elements if the big lie.

    Soros literally destroyed Barclay’s Bank and lied to the Jewish people during World War Two. The liar always has a forked tongue and he and Arianna Huffington, whom I met when she was a Republican, are co-horts in fabricating the LIE because both know that people don’t keep informed until quick sand starts at their source of interest, money; then they shift slowly to where reality hits them;……THERE is NO MONEY to pay for luxuries granted by stupid former Governors. MANY STATES ARE BROKE! And that is why so many Republican Gov. were elected! Do you get it? I doubt it. No jbos, no money, no taxes to bring income,= a supply and demand problem. Can you figure it out?

    I truly feel sorry for your mental state of denial. Time to face reality, Eddie47d. If you are a retired Union worker; I believe you are, it won’t be long before your Union will have to cut your retirement check. My state is already considering it for retired teachers. We no longer get supplemental checks, and there is a posibility there will not be an annual COLA of 2% this year. I had to join a Union and despised every due I had to give them so that they could promote their liberal ideolog, travel lst class to Euorpe to study education programs, and could not fingure out how the spent $7,000,000 in Misc.

    I chanllenge you to try to get a copy of the NEA’s Union Annual Financial Report and I bet you won’t be allowed to get it. I had to demand it and learned of expenditures that were nothing more than pure self interest for the big fat cats who spent like there was no tomorrow.

    I wised up and quit which was the smartest thing I did to survive by starting a business; a bank and we hired 450 employees. It was a huge success.

    You are not a free individual until you are capable of thinking for
    yourself. If the Unions were a caring bunch, the USA would not be at the bottom of the list when it comes to some Academic scores. these facts do not lie, we have a high rate of drop outs in some inner city schools, poor reading and English scores, low science and math scores ….so, eddie47d, where are your facts on how great unions help kids? We do not need the NEA, it is what started the downword spiral,..I know, I was there when it all started and saw the decline of educational standards.

    By the way, Read the book, ” Totured for Christ”, by Rev. Richard Wurmbrand. He lectured at my Church and saw his scarred body with holes on his back when he took off his shirt to show us what it was like to have been in prison during the Communist era which is what Soros flountingly supports with his left wing ideology.

    • Jill Cross

      Continued cuts to education every time there is a budget crisis doesn’t make any sense for average Americans or our society. Eventually these uneducated people will be running the country! Oops! Don’t look now but they are! And the luxuries that the criminal republican corporate elite enjoy at the taxpayers expense should be first on the chopping block, don’t you think? Like subsidies for big business. I don’t have a problem spending taxes on average Americans so much as military aid to foreign countries, how about you?

    • get right

      Wiseperson, ha, ha. If the repubs we nice, we wouldn’t be in two illegal wars, which by the way, if we weren’t in, we could have ridden out the crisis caused by Wall Street without as much pain. GREED is why we are suffering.

    • get right

      lady, you can’t be speaking of this Barclay Bank can you?
      http;//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclay_Bank
      Happens to be 10th largest bank in world and nothing in it’s history shows it was destroyed….more repub misinformation….must be listening to fox talking heads.. change the channel.

      • get right
      • libertytrain

        Googling Barclays will show some difficulties in 2007, 2008 – I’m remembering things in the papers back a while, as well – but current status seems kind of similar to things we read here. I felt a sense of the old sleight of hand as I read a few of the articles -
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/epic/barc/
        And yes, Eyes, I expect you’ll feel an absolute need to say something back at me. So be it.

        • get right

          ah, libertytrain, why is it when anyone calls out an obvious lie, that the radical right can’t admit it was one? Every bank had problems in 2007…the man did not bring down Barclays as previously stated.

        • get right

          Libertytrain, what did you mean when you said “yes Eyes”?

          • libertytrain

            Your style in your postings and frequent use of “dude”

  • http://com i41

    wiselady, remember eddee is a generational reservation indian, given specaisl passes in life like Onumnuttsand people like them would and could see life coming till it runs over them. Any ackasses that would give the maga hedge fund manulipator a sfree pass on the banking reform act, who is also the money man for the democrat marxist/communist party. Should be given a pretty had and a long look at and is a major contributor to the union thugs of the same party.

    • Denniso

      One of the premises of this article is the myth and mantra of the rightwing,that states and the feg gov’t are broke…that’s a ridiculous argument and anyone who can think knows that. The Repubs have pushed for and gotten tax cuts,mostly for the wealthy. So, revenue to the gov’t goes down and a defit develops. Budgets are a balance between revenus and spending and cutting taxes,especially in a recession that generates lower revenues anyway,upsets that balance. Then the Repubs scream about the deficits that they helped create and that gov’t then has to cut spending….how absurd can they get? Keep repeating the pattern and before you know it you have no budget,hence no gov’t. Is that the real motive of these hicks w/ no knowledge of economics or gov’t?
      Besides,just as a family that temporarily runs up a credit debt while still bringing in money,the gov’t is not broke. So the balance sheet shows a debt for a while,big deal.

      The repubs are trying to dismantle gov’t and this is their transparent as hell plan,and too many people are falling for it. Think! If debt is necessarily so bad then why did they not scream about it for the 8 yrs of Bush doubling the debt? Something wrong there…

      • JC

        Debt means you own money.
        You owe money because you can’t pay it off.
        You can’t pay it off because you don’t have it.
        You don’t have it means you are broke.

        US Debt clock:
        4,738,624,340,568…and counting very fast.
        http://www.usdebtclock.org/2011/ForeignDebt11.swf

        wake up Denniso (you moron) we’re broke!

        • Denniso

          OK fellow moron…do you know what being broke means? It means having NO money. It doesn’t mean carrying a credit balance while you still have a cash flow. If it did then the country would have imploded 50 yrs ago…we’ve had federal debt for a good part of our history,and we pay for it yearly. Should we try to minimize our debt? Sure,but that doesn’t mean we can’t have any debt and still have a functioning economy…just as most Americans carry debt and still stay afloat,the gov’t can do it as well. Most states have permanent funds that they can use if they have to. One state in particular has about a 15 billion $ fund,and only 450 million in debt…not so bad.

          The Repubs were not worried about debt very much when Bush or Reagan were doubling and tripling the debt, now it’s the end of the world.

          Anyone w/ much of a brain knows that it’s all a thin ploy to cut gov’t to some mythical size that the Repubs favor…it’s not at all about balancing the budgets. Wake up.

  • http://deleted Claire

    America has Soros and the Koch Brothers to deal with. Americans will soon see what “dictatorship” is all about–from both sides.

  • bob wire

    “Whether you like it not, changes are coming. The parasites are unhappy. The elites are worried. The collapse is underway.”

    What! The elites are not worried! and who’s the parasites?

  • Jill Cross

    I have never heard of a corporation fighting to save average American workers jobs, have any of you? Even though the unions have had bad management, like our government, there are good things about both. And instead of scrapping it all, how about making it work better, for all of us. The criminal republican corporate elite work for lobbyists and not for the average American worker. They are not going to cut corporate welfare, or corporate military spending, or military aid to foreign countries. They never do. As always, it will be cut from the bottom and given to the top. Actions sure speak louder than words.

  • http://Aol Billy

    They are trying to destroy the middle Class.
    As a life long Republican I will not vote for one again.
    I have compassion for the workers.
    The Koch Bros want to own the country.
    In my mind they will eventually ruin the US’They want power greed and money.
    Big corporations are the problem too send work to China and stash their momney outside the US.

    • Denniso

      To both of you above, good comments! The great irony of all this is that the middle class Repubs have fallen so blindly for the goals of the wealthy and corporate class,who are only using the Repub rabble as pawns in their fight for power, money and control. Like I’ve said a million times,it’s so transparently obvious that it’s mind boggling that the pawns can’t see it. They think they are fighting for freedom and liberty,but are fighting for their corporate masters who want all of the freedom and liberty their money can buy.

  • jopa

    Bob Wire;Bush has been gone for two years and you say we can’t blame him for Americas situation today.Let me clue you in.The devastation he put upon The US will be felt for decades to come and our grandchildren will be paying for his actions.He will be talked about for a long time so get used to it.

  • jopa

    Billy;There are probably tens of thousands of voters thinking as you are.The problem today is most voters only vote in Presidential elections.All elections are important as today’s news will dictate.

  • chuckb

    jopa you and your fellow progressive billy, as always have your facts all screwed up. billy is no more a life time republican than i am a democrat.
    up to 2007 bush had a repubilican controlled house an senate. these people were not taking care of things as they should and were only concerned in gettin re0elected, something like the progressives do. when they lost control in 2007 that’s when bush failed, he tried to appease a vicious house and senate led by reid and madame pelosi, that’s where our downfall started. the deficit somewhere around 400 billion in 2006, then came the democratic control of congress, that’s where the trouble started, bush gave in and boom up we go. then came the messiah, a man that had no clue what was happening other than the luxurious life style he stepped into and vacations galore. the deficit soared out of sight and still going. need i say more. yes you democrat/progressives really are adept at running the government.

    • Denniso

      Clever Chuck, but wrong…Bush was ‘great’ until ’07 when the Dems gained control of congress? Wow! So, the unbudgeted wars that he started,didn’t finish,that added hundreds of billions to the debt way before the Dems gained any power…the trillion dollar medicare drug plan,not paid for either and added to the debt…the likewise not paid for tax cuts that added another trillion to the debt. Did the mean old Dems make Bush do these things to double the national debt during his reign?

      The debt tripled under Reagan, and doubled again under Bush. Repeating myths and eroneous ‘facts’ don’t make them true…

      • chuckb

        hey denniso, show me the figures. you talk like one of those henchmen in the demo party.

        take a look at those so called 3rd world wages the public employees are making in wisconsin, and guess what those wages come from the tax payers who in the most part are not getting those kind of benefits.
        many of you resent the ceo’s and their salaries, well, get some fire in your gut and work hard, maybe you can get their yourself, envy doesn’t pay much and someone has to steer the ship.

        • Denniso

          It’s a fact of the economy,like a law of nature,that the vast majority of people can never get to the top of the pay pyramid,if they could there would not be a top anymore…it’s just the way it works,no matter how hard people work there are very limited numbers of high paying jobs or businesses. It is not envy to suggest that all people who are willing to work should be able to realize the ‘American dream’,and that if there are budget problems they should’nt be laid at the feet of average workers w/ the wealthiest sailing along in their $2,000/night vacation villas untouched.

          For 30 yrs most working people’s wages have barely stayed up w/ inflation and many have slid backward while the rich get richer. Those public employees w/ unions have managed to not go backward and now they are being targeted because they have managed to keep decent wages…
          like I said before,let’s drop all working people down to 3rd world status and get it over with…then see what kind of economy we have when most people can’t buy anything and our GDP is cut in half or worse.

  • justice22

    The Republican controlled congress repealed the Glass-Steagall act in 1999 which in effect provided financial institutions with a license to steal.During big oil Bush’s reign of incompetence the banks had one big party, speculating on anything and everything so they could increase their individual bonuses. That, in a nutshell is the reason for the financial crisis. Unfortunately, being the money grubbing cowards they are, none of the sons of privilege from Wall Street are willing to accept any responsibility. These “pillars of society” would much rather blame a teacher in Wisconsin or an auto worker or janitor for our budget woes.

    • chuckb

      justice 22

      again you are spouting off mis-information, the cause of this recession is related to housing and mortgage companies along with high energy costs that the liberal environmental politicians have caused, if you check out barney frank (house financial services comittee chair) and sen.dodd (both democrats)and you might find find a couple of prime suspects and their manipulation of covering up for the financial freddie mac and may. you too should review the teachers salaries in wisconsin and the public sector. that is a disgrace for the value in return. thanks to the protective union.

      • get right

        chuckb, have you heard of credit defaults?? Explore your world and google it. It will be a new experience for you to learn about Wall Street. Since you idolize those elite robbers, you ought to learn how they robbed us of all that money.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    jopa,
    Only you can make the stupid statesments you make. I`m a Independent,what
    in Gods name are you? You sure aren`t a Democrat,a Progressive maybe,or
    you might be a Marxist Communist. What are you jopa,and what country
    are you from? I know your not a American citizen. You can`t be and come up with the stupid things you come up with. You never have your facts
    right, as chuckb proves to you, every time you post something. I would like
    to know, if you know right from wrong?

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Billy,
    I can`t believe what your saying. I`m an Independent,and their are things
    I don`t like that the Republicans have done.Let me ask you what party are you going to vote for. There is no longer a Democrat party,it was hijacked
    by the Progressives,which is made up of a bunch of Marxist,Socialists and Communist. Your either not, or ever was a Republican,or you haven`t paid
    attention to what Obama and his left -wing loons have been doing or
    saying.Do your homework or quit acting like you were a Republican, because
    I don`t believe you ever were one.If you don`t vote Republican, then your voting for Obama even if you vote for no one.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Claire,
    Very well said. These daumb asses can`t see two feet in front of their noses. The unions are part of the reason the big corporations have gone
    over seas. The government hasn`t helped either and neither has the enviormentilist. They have made it to costly for a business to survive
    here.Still, a lot of big Corporations try to keep has much work here as
    they can and try to make up their loses with cheap labor in 3rd world countries.

    • Denniso

      Let’s forget about livable wages and just drop our working people down to third world conditions and salaries…then we can keep jobs here,since the corporate CEO’s will then be able to double their multi million $$ salaries and stay happy and content…doesn’t matter that we will all be living like they do in the 3rd world countries,we’ll have jobs.

      • get right

        denniso, how about those repubs who voted to keep giving the oil industry those billion dollar subsidies?? Every single one of them voted to keep giving them billions. And now they want to have a no fly zone in Libya. Oh great another war. Must be that some of those military contractors have run out of the subsidies that they get every year. John McCain and his cronies just have to bomb someone. I remember him singing “bomb, bomb, bomb Iran”. He must be so excited, just think we may have another opportunity to go to WAR!!!

        • Denniso

          If there is a need for involvement in Libya it should be NATO doing it,not us. I have little doubt that most,luckily not all,Republicans have a predisposition to war…it seems to be in their DNA.

  • jopa

    All this negative talk about George Soros, do any of you know the true story.In his early life he was taken in by a Hugarian official to hide his identity as being a Jew.One day the official was told by the nazi’s to inventory some belongings of a Jewish family.Soros because of his youth was taken along on the mission so he wouldn’t be left alone.That’s all there was to it but the republicans paint him with the same brush as Eichman and company.

  • chuckb

    jopa

    george soros pointed out the jews to the nazi’s in order to save himself, he collaborated with the germans.

    • denniso

      I believe that is a myth or lie made up to discredit Soros. The worst I’d heard that is true is that he broke the bank of England w/ his currency speculation decades ago,though there is nothing illegal about that.

      • get right

        denniso, they have bitten the soros apple that Jeff has presented them. Sheep all the way.

    • get right

      WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO SAVE YOUR OWN LIFE?? He was a child for goodness sake. You are obviously not a Christian.

  • http://google mike b.

    Hussein Obama and Soros are starting to ask their rent-a-thug protesters to start getting violent. Eventually the rep. lawmakers and their families and children are gonna be targeted, and will probaly be heckled, punched, pushed and kicked while trying to do what the taxpayers paid them to do. In the meantime, the dem lawmakers, run and hide, drink, get with prostitutes, and party in Illinios, thug illinios, where Thug-in-cheif, Hussein Obama came from. These dem. lawmakers are betting paid by unions, soros, emanual, and yes YOU, the taxpayers!! I would love to have a job where i can run away to another state, get paid by thug leaders, andf YOU, the taxpayers. CHANGE, America can believe in.

    • get right

      mike, What do you call what Sen. Vitter did with those paid “ladies of the night”. Or what Ensign did, having affair with married women and then paying off the husband? Oh, that’s right they are repubs, so their crimes never count.

  • chuckb

    denniso

    if it’s lie about soros collaborating with the nazi’s, then he lied to steve kroft in a 60 minutes interview in 1998, at that time he admitted doing just that.

    • get right

      chuck, he was 14 years old, in hiding, trying to save his life. What would you have done?? You certainly are not a Christian, to be judging someone for that.

  • Marty S.

    If he had a conscience then as soon as he was safe he would have discontinued his “charade” as the case may be. His price will be paid in the next life.

    • get right

      When did you decide that he was safe?? Easy to judge isn’t it?? Me thinks that is a job reserved for Jesus. It is a little above your pay grade.

  • chuckb

    get right

    i’m not judging him, this is the story he gave steve kroft on 60 minutes in 1998. i could care less if he was 14 or 50. the guys a communist, he even admits that. he owns the bolshevik party (democrats).

    • Denniso

      I didn’t see 60 mins and Soros admitting to anything,but if he was 14 and in danger from the Nazis I don’t think it makes much sense to blame him for what he may have done.
      He’s not a communist,he’s one of the great capitalists of the age. And,there is no law against belonging to ANY political party anyway…that’s what the constitution and our country are supposed to be about.

      You want to outlaw political parties that you don’t like? Where do you start? How about we outlaw the tea party? Republican party? Libertarians?

      • libertytrain

        Denniso – Google for the transcript — I found it earlier so that I could read it for myself.

      • get right

        Denniso, he is not the right kind of capitalist….you can only be a republican capitalist…haven’t you learned that by now??

        • Denniso

          You’re right…the right loves the Koch brothers and all other super rich who are Republicans,as most are.

    • get right

      Chuckb, let’s look at the decisions you made at 14 and let’s now hold you accountable. Did you drink illegally, smoke dope, have sex? Good now we are going to berate you for those decisions. Jail time is mandatory for you,even though you commited those crimes when you were a kid. It is a crime if you dare to call yourself a Christian.

  • jopa

    Soros was just a 14 year old kid and as an adult realized his helping the Hungarian official that took him in move some Jewish furniture was not his idea of being faithful to his fellow man.Him bringing this up in his adult life and feeling bad about it makes him out to be quite a man and deserves the respect of all.

    • libertytrain

      He compared it to being in the right place at the right time – a business view on it – nothing more.

  • jopa

    Comparing Soros and the Koch (Benzine Brothers)I would have to conclude the Koch people are bad bad people.No one knows how many Americans are dead because of them and how many are dying.They had 86 felony counts against them a few years back but a contribution to the Bush campaign wiped them out completely.They are perhaps one of Americas largest polluters of all time so now you know the reason behind their support for the republicans.

  • Beenie

    What a load of crap. More repugnican lies. Unions are NOT thugs. Those people paid their pensions out of THEIR OWN MONEY!!!! The State of Wisconsin did not contribute a DIME! The state is in debt because Scooter couldn’t wait to give away the treasury to the Koch Brothers just like W did. Repugnican policies ALWAYS cause a recession and destroy the economy. If you low-information voters had even a smidgen of economic education, you’d know you’ve been fed an enormous mound of bull pucky by Karl Rove, W, Cheney and the rest of the Bush crime family. Keep voting against your own best interests. It’s working so well for you.

    And don’t forget that W and Billion Dollar Hank Paulson are the ones who set up the bank bailouts – they deregulated the banks, undoing 70 years of economic stability and then let those SOBs run wild. It nearly tanked the world economy, never mind the US economy. W did that. Not President Obama.

    • Denniso

      The rightwing thinks they are fighting for liberty and freedom,when what they are really doing is being used as pawns for corporate power mongers like the Koch billionaire brothers,whose only interest is garnering more billions and more political control. Sad to watch supposedly intelligent humans fall for the charade so totally.

  • Bryan Richards

    Not a word about mfg. shiped to China, not a word about the lack of tariffs on imports to protect American jobs, not a word about obsene perks for elected officials ( retirement, cars, health care etc., not a word about tax breaks for the rich, vacations as business trips, form your own charity, 12% tax on capital gains.
    We should be tariffing imports or restricting them to protect our workers, we should make politicans serve only one term of two years and retire on social security, we should remember that civil service protects us from corruption, politicans would like to get rid of it and hire contractors so they could get more graft.
    To make this a better and safer country we should disenfranchaise and Exile felons. Ballots should have a picture of the candidate and his history, standing in the class in school and a platform of what he stands for. I listened to Mr. Obama and Mr. Mc Cain for two years and never heard them stand for anything while the Green Party at least had a platform and stood for somthing but they got no publicity or even published election results in many places.

    • http://www.lakeatitlanrentals.com/real%20estate%20lake%20atitlan.html Duende

      bryan

      it’s amazing how the right wing can see what ;s wrong with the left and the left can see what’s wrong with the right. regretfully they have no insight to their own delusion. Third party’s are the only answer if they don;t get co-opted. Excuse the poor typing in this and my previous post. i have a broken keyboard that’s tough to work with and i live in guatemala now a days.

  • http://www.lakeatitlanrentals.com/real%20estate%20lake%20atitlan.html Duende

    If al the fools on this list who compalain about governement workers and uniions complained about the money the elite take out of the system, which makes all workers compensation, welfare, free health care , you name it.. what the global elite suck out of the economy of the USA and other countries make these costs look like pocket change.. and it is. you’ve all got your heads up your a$$ wehn you come down on teachers, police and firemen. If they do have better benefits than the private sector (which they didn;t for decades) it;s about time and it just speaks loudly about how the private sector is getting the screws. is this class warefare.. hel no.. it;s class extermination and most of you sound like termites cheering for the can of RAID.

    Go to Forbebes magazine and look at the 500 largest and richest companies on the planet… USA. and do you know who tops the list? JP Morgan .. take a look at the assests of all the worlds corporations… at least 80% are all banks, insurance and financial organizations. almost no manufacturing. no products.. hell, not even weapons manufactures compare to these PARASITES. now these are the ReAL parasites. bob… I’m ashamed of you. You really ought to no better.

  • jopa

    If and when the unions no longer exist and then the jobs will come back to America, but you will be making about 20 pesos a day.Put that in your taco shell and chew on it for a while.And no siesta.

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